# The JPS Labs: Abyss AB-1266 Impressions Thread



## scolaiw

_Welcome to the official *JPS Labs: Abyss AB-1266 Appreciation & Impressions Thread*! In here you will find all things Abyss. Feel free to post your own impressions of the Abyss as well as discuss anything you like (as long as it is at least slightly related to the Abyss). To begin with, my very own impressions of the Abyss after the first few times I heard them..._

*Introduction*

 Today, I managed to hear the new Abyss planar magnetic headphones and boy was I excited.

 The salesperson assured me that they were the first distributor worldwide to get the Abyss which is nice. 

 Given the asking price of more than $5000 (that's Stax SR-009 level) and as a direct competitor to the LCD 3s, I couldn't tell if I was more excited by the potential for brilliant SQ or just the novelty of such a pair of cans.



  
  
 For a long time, Audeze and Hifiman have been the go to headphone company amongst head-fiers when seeking a new pair of planar magnetic headphones. That is no longer the case. I believe that we have a new and true contender in the class.


*What's in the box?*

   
  For $5000, the package comes with a lot more than just a pair of cans. Inside the box, one will find a wooden box for storage, a leather carry case, a headphone stand, and balanced cables, with a converter to a 1/4 inch plug. I should note that the cables are of extremely good quality. Given that JPS labs makes cables, you'd expect nothing less. According to the salesman, the cables themselves are worth about a fifth to a quarter of the asking price ($1000-$1250).


   
 The headphones themselves come with detachable earpads which adhere magnetically. You can twist them clockwise or anticlockwise (as if turning a doorknob) and alter the angle of the earpads yourself.

 

*The look and feel*



 There's no point discussing how it looks. You be the judge. 

 All I can say however is that they are almost completely metal (aluminium I believe) and what appears to be foam on the outer side of the drivers is actually metal that has the same porous look of foam. The leather earpads are supple and soft.

 However, these cans were incredibly heavy (more than the LCDs) and not really that comfortable. There's no clamping force at all (unless you unscrew the top and push the sides together) so most of the weight sits on top of your head via the leather head band.



*How it sounds*


 Firstly, I should say the source was as follows: NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC>Burson Soloist/Woo WA22/Woo WA5>Abyss.

 I should say, because I am most familiar with the HD 800, I will do most of comparison with the HD 800. 

 The first thing I noticed was soundstage. It was TREMENDOUS. It was bordering on HD 800 levels of width and depth with the Burson and even surpassed the HD 800 with the WA5 (just). Instrument separation was good with a nice level of airiness that was close to the HD 800. The attack was nice and fast but I felt the decay was a little robotic and whilst it was very good, didn't offer the same amount of smooth liquid decay that I've grown accustomed to. Imaging however was good but never quite matched the HD 800.

 Interestingly, I felt that it sounded quite neutral in comparison to most of the other planar headphones I've heard (although nowhere near HD 800 levels). I felt there was a slight U shaped sound signature although barely. Treble was clear with good extension but not as far reaching as the HD 800. Mids were slightly recessed but detailed and the bass had very good extension with a fair amount of slam. It never reaches the same dark and luscious bass of the LCD 3s. It's more of a technical bass that offers more slam than normal.

 Having said that, it fixes almost all of the problems of the LCDs but in turn, loses the qualities that we've come to love from the LCDs. The soundstage that was never there is now present. The sensual tone of the LCD is now replaced with a cleaner more technical tone. I wouldn't go as far as to say that is devoid of euphony, but in truth, it sounded quite plain to me. 

 As a technical achievement, I'd place it way above the LCD 3. Although, I'd say it was about on par with the HD 800 (with the HD 800 edging forward if sourced well since they scale so incredibly well). However in terms of listening enjoyment, hand me the LCD 3 (or even 2.2) any day.

 One thing to note however, was that the Abyss is one power hungry headphone. On the Soloist, it was barely reaching full potential and volume had to cranked way up even on high gain. The WA5 served it a bit more justice but I'd hazard to say it could still improve if powered better. Therefore, there is no point considering using this with a portable setup (unless your idea of a portable setup is a HeadAmp GS-X/Cavalli Amp in a suitcase + a car battery). 

_Edit: Somebody pointed out that since the Abyss is a direct competitor with the LCD 3, it may be more important to include some more detailed comparison between the Abyss and LCD 3 (which I agree). However, bear in mind that I personally use the HD 800 and I believe the comparison with the HD 800 will be more accurate. But here are my two cents on the Abyss vs. the LCD 3 anyway._

  Soundstage, airiness, instrument separation, speed of attack and imaging were all a pretty big improvement upon the LCD 3s.
   
  Tone was more clinical and less euphonic than the LCD 3 but is by no means sterile.
   
  Treble extension was better, more detailed and clearer.
   
  Mids more recessed than LCD 3s and less lush/smooth sounding.
   
  Bass had good slam and extension but ultimately loses to the LCD 3s. 


*Conclusion (tl;dr)*

 Disregarding personal sound preferences, the Abyss is easily better than LCD 3, but doesn't quite match the HD 800. For $5000 it's not worth the asking price. Instead, consider buying a Stax SR-009 or a really good setup with the HD 800. 

 My personal opinion is that is they sold it for $2000 - $2500 (as a basic headphones + cable + storage case) package, they'd sell a lot more units given that they'd become be *very* competitive with the LCD 3s. By all means, they can still sell the complete package for more, but the ridiculous asking price of an extra $2500 for a stand and a leather satchel is just not justified. 
  

*UPDATE (25/06/2013)**:* I have since reauditioned the Abyss on the Cavalli Liquid Glass, and I must say that there's been a big improvement. Soundstage again wider. Instrument depth and separation is surreal. Every positive I mentioned about the Abyss has improved. It's truly amazing and given this, has surpassed the LCD 3s in every way technically (although of course you may still prefer the sound of the LCD 3s).
   
  I believe what we have here is *the best planar magnetic headphone in existence* *at the time of writing*. Just as I can say the HD 800 is the best dynamic headphone in existence and the SR-009 is the best electrostatic headphone in existence. 
   
  However, an end-game SR-009 setup is still (in my opinion) easily better than an end-game Abyss/HD 800 setup but in terms of the latter two, they are easily on par with one another. Each with their own areas where they excel. For example, I still feel that imaging, detail retrieval, clarity and overall transparency is better with the HD 800 but properly amped, the Abyss is a close contender in those aspects and excels in terms of soundstage, instrument separation and decay.  
   
  Bear in mind that what constitutes as "easily better" for a head-fier is quite minimal difference for everybody else and this here is an obvious case of chase that last 1%.
   
  This means that a choice between a setup with the Abyss or the HD 800 is purely down to preferences of sound signature/presentation and price. At $4000 more for equivalent performance, you better really love the sound of the Abyss over the HD 800.


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## preproman

Really good looking pictures..


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## scolaiw

Haha, cheers. I didn't actually take them. The salespeople did.


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## DefQon

Ha!
   
  Very nice and thanks for doing the job for me. I was going to give George a call and see when the Abyss will be in with exams for these few weeks I ain't got the time. 
   
  Btw how come you didn't audition the 009's at the same time?
   
  I have immense interest in the pads being used on the Abyss as mentioned in my other Abyss thread as pads can make a night and day difference to sound depending on the seal and isolation and positioning.
   
  Will edit this post later on.....got few more things to post/ask to skimmed the the impression review.
   
  .....bit busy atm.


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## [H]ardwareNick

+1 for Addicted to Audio (where you tried these in Melbourne), Guillaume/Rendra/George are awesome. 
   
  It's good to hear that they aren't a total flop in their own right (cable company makes first pair of headphones ever and they're planar magnetic and cost $5k whuttt)


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## scolaiw

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Ha!
> 
> Very nice and thanks for doing the job for me. I was going to give George a call and see when the Abyss will be in with exams for these few weeks I ain't got the time.
> 
> ...


 

 George doesn't have the 009s for audition simply because they're too much of an investment. So they're a special order item at the moment. He was just telling me today how it's a bit of a catch 22, he might make more sales if he makes it available for audition, but then again if he doesn't, he doesn't lose $5000 out of pocket. The problem is because they're not the official Australian STAX distributor, but a reseller instead (or something like that). 

 In regards to the pads, you can position them quite a few ways. As I said already, the pads can be turned (as if you were twisting a doorknob). Furthermore, you can alter the frame with the big screw on top to slightly change the angle of the drivers and the amount of clamp to better suit your listening preferences.

 My exam's coming up in exactly a week haha. Which uni are you at?
  
  Quote: 





[h]ardwarenick said:


> +1 for Addicted to Audio (where you tried these in Melbourne), Guillaume/Rendra/George are awesome.
> 
> It's good to hear that they aren't a total flop in their own right (cable company makes first pair of headphones ever and they're planar magnetic and cost $5k whuttt)


 

 Hahaha, yes indeed. I didn't want it to sound like an advertisement for A2A (so I was careful not to mention where I tried them out) because the purposes of this was for the Abyss, but props to the guys over at A2A. They're pretty awesome.


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## DefQon

scolaiw said:


> George doesn't have the 009s for audition simply because they're too much of an investment. So they're a special order item at the moment.
> 
> In regards to the pads, you can position them quite a few ways. As I said already, the pads can be turned (as if you were twisting a doorknob). Furthermore, you can alter the frame with the big screw on top to slightly change the angle of the drivers and the amount of clamp to better suit your listening preferences.
> 
> ...




 Cool cool, yeah, my first,exam is in 2 days goes through to the 21st. Swinburne audiophile here.


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## alvin sawdust

Many thanks for the impressions and great pics. Wonder how many from this forum will buy a pair of these. Makes you wonder whether they will benefit most by being driven off the taps of a good speaker amp.


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## WNBC

Thank you, while out of my price range I still enjoyed reading about this new headphone.
   
  Do you feel your opinion might change if you were driving them with a little more power?  I've had this experience with orthos.  With too little power they are polite but with sufficient power it's a different experience, more enjoyable.  What amps were the dealing recommend to try these puppies well?
   
  EDIT:  Alvin beat me to it


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## scolaiw

Yes, I do think so. Even the jump from the Burson to the WA22 was noticeable, and the WA5 managed to do it even more justice. I believe from what I heard, I hadn't unlocked the full potential yet. The dealers definitely recommended a top of the line amp like a HeadAmp GS-X or a Cavalli. To be honest, the Woo WA5 was pretty awesome but I think it was still just a tad under. Having said that, I know JPS Labs is actually marketing it as being "portable" hence the leather satchel. This I find ridiculous, because I doubt any portable setup could even come close to unlocking the full potential of the Abyss. 

 The take home message with this is very much the same with say a pair of Stax SR-009s. If you are willing to spend $5k on a pair of headphones, you better at least be ready to spend another $5k on an amp and you better have on hell of a source. Having said that, from my first impressions, I don't believe an end of the line setup with the Abyss could compete with an end of the line setup with the HD 800, let alone the SR-009s.


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## K_19

I have to say it's a pretty cool design choice to have the width of the headband adjustable, thus the clamp. Don't know of any other headphones that allows for adjustable clamping (not counting manually bending the headband like AT's, Senns, etc) except for Portapros (which does it through squeezing the earpads).  Really important from a comfort perspective because lot of people can be super sensitive to clamping. 
   
  I suppose the cups on these don't swivel in any direction at all? Looks like they took on the SR-007 style of pad adjustment instead.


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## conquerator2

I guess its speaker amp time... Sounds like the case of underpowering to me (ala underpowered HE-6)


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## DefQon

I'm still sticking with what I said this will not compare against the SR009 at the disgraceful price these are at. But I do feel that these are a good contender against the HE-6 and that they need power to somewhat sound decent.


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## grokit (Nov 28, 2019)

.


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## Audio Addict

I recently learned that a pair of the Abyss may be paired with one of the new Cavalli Audio amps at the upcoming Chicago Head-Fi meet so if you are in the Chicago area you may want to stop by. The event is listed in the meet thread.


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## scolaiw

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Did you use the TRS or the XLR port of the WA5? Big difference in power.


 
   
  Yes I did. Hence why I felt the WA5 did it more justice. 
  


audio addict said:


> I recently learned that a pair of the Abyss may be paired with one of the new Cavalli Audio amps at the upcoming Chicago Head-Fi meet so if you are in the Chicago area you may want to stop by. The event is listed in the meet thread.


 
   

  Yeah, the store I went to were actually bringing in a Cavalli amp for the purposes of demoing the Abyss, but alas, when I went it had not arrived yet.


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## DefQon

Are there any plans for A2A to sell Cavalli amp's in the future? They are a mixed bag here of being worthy or not for the price and I want to hear one.


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## scolaiw

Yes, they are planning on selling them. You should head in after your exams to have a listen.


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## Happy Camper

If a direct competitor to the LCD-3s, why all the 800 references? From a price comparison, the 9s would be the natural comparison but since the 800 seems to have it bested, why bother?


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## Hutnicks

I'm curious about the pads as well. They look tapered like the MD's.
   
  Not sure having a magnetically clamped pad on a planar magnetic driver is a great idea though.


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## n3rdling

Yup, I've wondered about the same thing - whether those magnets will interfere with the ideally uniform magnetic field already in place.


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## scolaiw

Quote: 





happy camper said:


> If a direct competitor to the LCD-3s, why all the 800 references? From a price comparison, the 9s would be the natural comparison but since the 800 seems to have it bested, why bother?


 

 I was able to directly compare with the LCD 3s, but since my most often used headphones are the HD 800, I could provide a better comparison which I felt would be more accurate than if I had used the LCD 3s. Having said that, I basically summarised the differences between the LCD 3s and the Abyss in the original post anyway:

 Soundstage, airiness, instrument separation, speed of attack and imaging were all a pretty big improvement upon the LCD 3s.

 Tone was more clinical and less euphonic than the LCD 3 but is by no means sterile.

 Treble extension was better, more detailed and clearer.

 Mids more recessed than LCD 3s and less lush/smooth sounding.

 Bass had good slam and extension but ultimately loses to the LCD 3s. 
  


hutnicks said:


> I'm curious about the pads as well. They look tapered like the MD's.
> 
> Not sure having a magnetically clamped pad on a planar magnetic driver is a great idea though.


 


 Yeah, I was thinking about that too. And the magnets used to attach the pads on were by no means weak, fridge magnets. You had to use a decent amount of force to pop them off. However, from listening to them, either they managed to counter the effect or it's not noticeable, or maybe it actually helps in some way with the SQ. Who knows? 

 All I can say is, the Abyss is by no means a flop. Just not worth the asking price.


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## grokit

Well compared to say, the Ultrasone Edition 10, it's a great deal


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## brat

Thanks for the mini review!
   All auditions of the Аbyss end with the conclusion that although they are good, they are highly overpriced.
  JPS Labs must reconsider their brave jump in the headphone world.


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## scolaiw

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Well compared to say, the Ultrasone Edition 10, it's a great deal


 

 Hahaha, I'd probably say it was around a similar level of overpriced-ness. Maybe the Edition 10 is a little worse by a notch. We'll see if the Edition 12 manages to trump them both in the being overpriced! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


brat said:


> Thanks for the mini review!
> All auditions of the Аbyss end with the conclusion that although they are good, they are highly overpriced.
> JPS Labs must reconsider their brave jump in the headphone world.


 


 Thanks! Indeed they should. I suspect they are pricing it this way to make people psychologically place it in the same league as the STAX because a lot of people tend to think that the higher the cost the better the SQ (and try to justify that thought with their wallet). In fact, I suspect that is probably the same marketing technique employed by Ultrasone, especially with all the random metal editions.


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## DefQon

The Ultrasones, Final Audio they are brands for a niche market being limited edition and all. The Abyss are not, the way JPS is thinking is that, "ohh audiophiles buying expensive headphones and amp's, let grab them by the balls and make them pay lots of $$$ for these headphones". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I don't endorse such mentioned companies if there marketing logic surrounds greed (which in this case is).


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## grokit

To be fair, Ultrasone and FAD do have some reasonably-priced offerings in their lineups as well.


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## DefQon

That's true. I want whatever the guys at JPS were smoking when they decided to come with up with the current price tag.


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## wink

Interesting review.
  btw the Blue Hawaii is an electrostatic amp and should not be used with the Abyss.


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## brat

Quote: 





wink said:


> btw the Blue Hawaii is an electrostatic amp and should not be used with the Abyss.


 
  Why?! It will be interesting and... spectacular


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## [H]ardwareNick

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> Hahaha, yes indeed. I didn't want it to sound like an advertisement for A2A (so I was careful not to mention where I tried them out) because the purposes of this was for the Abyss, but props to the guys over at A2A. They're pretty awesome.


 
   
  Meh, facts be facts (you were there and there is nowhere else in Australia you could have tried the Abyss) and all power to A2A for being probably the only retailer of its kind if Australia where you have lots of proper headphone gear to audition and buy at non rip-off prices. Btw, in case I didn't already mention it - thanks for the nice review posted OP.
   
  Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> Yes, they are planning on selling them. You should head in after your exams to have a listen.


 
   
  Yeah, iirc from my last chat with George, they were bringing in 3 of the Cavalli Audio amps as well as the GS-X Mk2 over the next few months.
   
  Quote: 





happy camper said:


> If a direct competitor to the LCD-3s, why all the 800 references? From a price comparison, the 9s would be the natural comparison but since the 800 seems to have it bested, why bother?


 
   
  Quote: 





defqon said:


> That's true. I want whatever the guys at JPS were smoking when they decided to come with up with the current price tag.


 
   
  Using the very valid logic of these two quotes combined, I struggle to see where JPS is trying to land this headphone. Needless to say the next time I'm in, I'd love to try the Abyss for myself and compare it to the HD800 and LCD3 as I'm very familiar with both of their sound signatures.


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## etherlite

I was lucky to be able to try the Abyss before I leave Australia for good in A2A (first customer to try them ), special thanks to George and Rendra, best customer service as well. Sorry for the delay on the impression, I'm still sorting my stuffs.
   
  My setup that day was AK120 - Arcam D33 - WA22 - Abyss. Tried replacing the DAC & amp with schiit gungnir-mjolnir combo but it doesn't sound as nice. I with I could listen with my Lampizator lv4 and Liquid Fire, but I already packed them in my suitcases 
   
  Impression-wise, I agree with scolaiw, the soundstage is amazing and the bass is really kicking your ass, was listening to Scorpions - Tainted Love and I was shocked by the drum in the intro!!
   
  The only negative point is that I wish JPS labs could give more mid to the abyss, I'm using LCD 2 rev1 and I love mid.
   
  The question is: Is this headphone worth the 5000$ price tag? I don't know. To be honest, I was listening to the abyss with minimum burning-in (just opened the previous night) and a setup that was deemed not enough to bring the abyss' true potential
   
  Pictures taken by myself, sorry I just used Xperia Z so it won't be as nice as A2A's pics


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## scolaiw

Quote: 





wink said:


> Interesting review.
> btw the Blue Hawaii is an electrostatic amp and should not be used with the Abyss.


 

 Whoops, I meant the HeadAmp GS-X. In my head I automatically call all HeadAmps Blue Hawaiis just cos I like the name. Hahaha.
  
  Quote: 





[h]ardwarenick said:


> Meh, facts be facts (you were there and there is nowhere else in Australia you could have tried the Abyss) and all power to A2A for being probably the only retailer of its kind if Australia where you have lots of proper headphone gear to audition and buy at non rip-off prices. Btw, in case I didn't already mention it - thanks for the nice review posted OP.


 

 Well I suppose I could have not been in Australia when I auditioned them...? Haha but yeah, as you say, facts are facts.

 Anyway, cheers!


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## wink

Quote:scoliaw 





> Whoops, I meant the HeadAmp GS-X. In my head I automatically call all HeadAmps Blue Hawaiis just cos I like the name. Hahaha.


 
  Easily done - could be a Freudian slip.
   
  Lock the wallet away unless you want to go there (Stax heaven).


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## alvin sawdust

If it is as good as you say it is and they priced it in the lcd3 price bracket, they would sell bucket loads. food for thought .


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## DefQon

Quote: 





alvin sawdust said:


> If it is as good as you say it is and they priced it in the lcd3 price bracket, they would sell bucket loads. food for thought .


 
   
  Indeed.


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## preproman

Why are they so greedy?


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## wink

Exclusivity.


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## scolaiw

Quote:


preproman said:


> Why are they so greedy?


 


wink said:


> Exclusivity.


 

 You guys have it the wrong way round. Greed is not the question, but the answer.

 Why are they trying to market the Abyss as an "exclusive" item? Greed.


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## DefQon

They'd get more sale and attention if they priced them around $1.5-2k.


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## Cante Ista

Agreed! seems like they are getting a lot of negative press here at Head Fi, largely due to price. Personally, a company pricing their item largely to present the image of exclusivity really rubs me the wrong way. I kind of feel bad for people who bought them. Likely, they either got ripped off or  score high on vanity. I wonder if there is anyone out there who listened to them with other TOTL HPs  for caparison and then bought them.


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## wink

They'd sell far more at $200, but they would go broke quicker than you could say bankrupt.


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## scolaiw

Quote: 





wink said:


> They'd sell far more at $200, but they would go broke quicker than you could say bankrupt.


 
   
  Hardly, JPS Labs is doing well selling their cables at ridiculously marked up prices and people are still buying them. 

 I reckon they've just extended their cable marketing strategy to their first pair of headphones and hoping that it will pull through for them.


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## stang

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> *Introduction*
> 
> Today, I managed to hear the new Abyss planar magnetic headphones and boy was I excited.
> 
> ...


 
  I was sitting at that exact spot today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gave the LCD-2, LCD-3 and Abyss a listen. I was only listening through a Mjolnir which was probably a good thing as the Abyss didn't blow me away. If they did, I don't know what I would do as I can barely stretch for the LCD-2's price tag. They sure felt a lot lighter than the LCD-2 or LCD-3 but that was to be expected due to its design and construction. I was surprised at how much bass they put out considering how these are worn as well.


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## grokit

They seem like $2,000 headphones. Add $1,000 for "exclusivity and vanity", so okay $3K... but $5K?
   
  Maybe they're just not worth making really hard to make.


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## preproman

Bring them down to $2k.  I'll be more likely to buy a pair.  Seems like others would as well.  Looks like the LCD-3s are selling hand over fist the last few months..


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## wink

Get them while they're still exotic.


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## Hutnicks

Quote: 





grokit said:


> They seem like $2,000 headphones. Add $1,000 for "exclusivity and vanity", so okay $3K... but $5K?
> 
> Maybe they're just not worth making really hard to make.


 

 I'm thinking 2500 top limit and that only as an appeal to the American made (and god help them if theres componentry in there that isn't) panacea. Other than that 2K is the limit the market would most likely stand.
   
  Vanity ain't gonna cut it here, I'm afraid. Unless maybe you get Carly Simon to do endorsements.


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## Happy Camper

Vanity is the customer they will sell them to with the FU money and there's a lot of them in this hobby (says the snarky little peon with pretzel money). But no one wants to be hoodwinked for buying them first without the "gift from the creator" sound confirmed. So we wait to see who's the first intrepid spirit willing to be the guinea pig that's part of the gang. They have a strike against them already being from a cable co. cause we all know the shineola in that industry as indicated by the roll out price. :rolleyes:

Tick, tick, tick.......... 

If you feel this unfair, our community has been duped by many and once the money is gone, sorry bout your wallet.......... cause there's no one protecting the poor innocent victims. If they want to make a splash with a good product, send out a few for review. We are always ready for another advancement in reference. If they are looking to make a score and split, circle the wagons.


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## Cante Ista

Quote: 





happy camper said:


> Vanity is the customer they will sell them to with the FU money and there's a lot of them in this hobby (says the snarky little peon with pretzel money). But no one wants to be hoodwinked for buying them first without the "gift from the creator" sound confirmed. So we wait to see who's the first intrepid spirit willing to be the guinea pig that's part of the gang. They have a strike against them already being from a cable co. cause we all know the shineola in that industry as indicated by the roll out price.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  could not have said it better myself!


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## DefQon

Very true.


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## etherlite

Hmm, probably it's a bit unfair to say the pricetag is too much, since it is meant for people with the STAX-level budget.
   
  Would love to A-B Abyss and 009, both with their best setup


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## DefQon

I honestly can safely say the Abyss won't stand a chance. Much bias to Ortho heads out there though.


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## Hutnicks

Quote: 





defqon said:


> I honestly can safely say the Abyss won't stand a chance. Much bias to Ortho heads out there though.


 

 Well they may have dug a deep grave here. If they attempt a price cut of 50 points or better, anyone who has bought a pair already will go ballistic.


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## M-13

The Abyss for $2500? $2000?
   
  Stop talking crazy guys! Do you how much R&D went into the cables alone? Jesus Christ, the gorgeous state-of-the-art cables by themselves are easily worth $5000~$6000. They're practically giving the headphone away as an accessory to the awesome cable. The fact that the headphones look just as gorgeous as the cable is a HUGE PLUS and probably one of the first reasons to buy this. Out of the many many reasons.
   
  Now don't let me get started on the patent-pending awesome leather satchel and headphone stand. JPS is no doubt taking a huge loss selling these for such a low price. The Abyss is the bargain of the decade. It'll easily be product of 2013, or better yet the best value/performance of the decade. Buy these quickly before JPS raises the price to what these should be.


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## gikigill

No worries, I'll wait for them to increase the price. :-$ 

I don't feel exclusive enough at the current price.

 My savings for that pathetic Stax 007/BH can wait.


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## Hutnicks

Quote: 





gikigill said:


> No worries, I'll wait for them to increase the price. :-$
> 
> I don't feel exclusive enough at the current price.
> 
> My savings for that pathetic Stax 007/BH can wait.


 

 Ah, Just buy a pair of Wilson WATT's and screw a headband on em. Might need a neckbrace but hell, when you put those on at a meet.......


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## gikigill

Hutnicks, 

I am disappoint! They are not electrostats and I wouldn't listen to pleb dynamics. Shoo Shoo! 

 Hugs his Stax


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## Hutnicks

Quote: 





gikigill said:


> Hutnicks,
> 
> I am disappoint! They are not electrostats and I wouldn't listen to pleb dynamics. Shoo Shoo!
> 
> Hugs his Stax


 

 I figured you might draw the line at wearing a pair of ESL63's. Totally capture the retro crowd with that though. And save about 3500 to boot!


----------



## gikigill

That's more like it my good friend Hutnicks or how else am I to show off my not so considerable wealth. Couple of lackies to hold my McIntosh amps and I'll show these Abyss fellows how it's done. 

Back to topic now


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Stop talking crazy guys! Do you how much R&D went into the cables alone? Jesus Christ, the gorgeous state-of-the-art cables by themselves are easily worth $5000~$6000. They're practically giving the headphone away as an accessory to the awesome cable. The fact that the headphones look just as gorgeous as the cable is a HUGE PLUS and probably one of the first reasons to buy this. Out of the many many reasons.
> 
> Now don't let me get started on the patent-pending awesome leather satchel and headphone stand. JPS is no doubt taking a huge loss selling these for such a low price. The Abyss is the bargain of the decade. It'll easily be product of 2013, or better yet the best value/performance of the decade. Buy these quickly before JPS raises the price to what these should be.


 
  Good point, would be interesting to know how much the cables and headphones cost individually. My assumption is judging from the attitude and position Joe said in my other thread about how they invested $50k on tools and machinery to make these, it comes off to me that they are actually doing the right thing selling these at $5k, so it is justifiable for them to keep making them because they invested $50k on machinery sort of leveraging the cost of tools acquired alone.
   
  Oh and for that matter I wouldn't be surprised if there $250-1000 are worth no more than $50 for parts and all. I suggest those interested in why I said this to google Virtual Dynamics - $15 cable.


----------



## gikigill

To those who have heard these, how do they compare to the HE6. Please ignore the price difference between them.


----------



## DefQon

Abyss on speaker taps vs HE6 on speaker taps GO!


----------



## gikigill

My money is on the HE6 after reading the comments so far but then again.


----------



## DefQon

Same here.


----------



## gikigill

I'm willing to lend my HE6 if someone can compare them in Melbourne. Won't be buying the Abyss in this lifetime but for the sake of comparison.


----------



## scolaiw

I've mentioned in the original post already, but both Rendra and George were telling me that "the cables themselves are worth about a fifth to a quarter of the asking price ($1000-$1250)".


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> I've mentioned in the original post already, but both Rendra and George were telling me that "the cables themselves are worth about a fifth to a quarter of the asking price ($1000-$1250)".


 
  Sorry didn't read it.....but What?


----------



## gikigill

So despite using $1k cables, it still doesn't sound worth 5k.
Draw your own conclusions.


----------



## DefQon

I think they should've done something like this:
   
http://www.crystalrocked.com/store/index.php/shop/gold-dr-dre.html
   
  To the Abyss so it would be more worthy of the 5k.


----------



## preproman

Looks like what they should have done was to go all out and made it an electrostat headphone.


----------



## gikigill

Yup, and charge $10000 for the privilege of selling an electrostat.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





gikigill said:


> Yup, and charge $10000 for the privilege of selling an electrostat.


 




   
  I should have said at that price they should have made it an electrostat..


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





gikigill said:


> Yup, and charge $10000 for the privilege of selling an electrostat.


 
  $15000, because Joe from JPS will make up an excuse "oh but we invested $xxxxxxxx amount of dollars in machinery so we are charging $10000 for the headphones + $5000 for the cables because it uses 5 specially made unicorn hair wire strands able to withstand 580v of smack". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It pisses me off just thinking about it and his response in my thread.


----------



## gikigill

Seriously though stats are much harder to engineer and manufacture. They need some really good infrastructure to get going. As much as I like Hifiman for their value and sound, the Jade proved to be their Waterloo. JPS will need someone of Fang,s calibre if they want to make a proper stat. 
Kingsound has been in the business for a decade and even they screw up sometimes with their speakers. I ended up getting a Nakamichi clone stat speaker set instead of Kingsound due to reliability reports.


----------



## DefQon

I wouldn't say stats are harder to engineer, people do ESP headphones all the time, check out winsettawong's thread on his diy stat headphone. What's difficult about e-stat is getting the measurement and mixture right, micro thickness and plate thickness etc, this attributes to either good or bad sound. Then there comes the right amount of voltage you want to feed it through proper amplification. 
   
  Speaking of Nakamichi's, I'm getting the Dragons soon.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





defqon said:


> I wouldn't say stats are harder to engineer, people do ESP headphones all the time, check out winsettawong's thread on his diy stat headphone. What's difficult about e-stat is getting the measurement and mixture right, micro thickness and plate thickness etc, this attributes to either good or bad sound. Then there comes the right amount of voltage you want to feed it through proper amplification.
> 
> Speaking of Nakamichi's, I'm getting the Dragons soon.


 

 Stats are far easier to make, but as you say much more difficult to make well.
   
  There was a French bloke who had an amazing blog on how he tensioned his membranes and assembled his headphones.
   
  Then again when I think about 5 grand for a headphone. I think esp950 and killer amp. OR that's a lot of play money for mylar and a tensioning rig.
   
  Or I could just buy the guy down the roads SR40 rig for 60 bucks and repair it.


----------



## grokit

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the natural crossfeed that seemingly must be part of the Abyss presentation as the earcups are not sealed to the head. This is one of the more interesting attributes of it to me, as only out of production headphones like the Jekelin Float and the AKG K1000 do this (that I am aware of).
   
  Or not, I could be totally off base here but it's an intriguing possibility.


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





grokit said:


> One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the natural crossfeed that seemingly must be part of the Abyss presentation as the earcups are not sealed to the head. This is one of the more interesting attributes of it to me, as only out of production headphones like the Jekelin Float and the AKG K1000 do this (that I am aware of).
> 
> Or not, I could be totally off base here but it's an intriguing possibility.


 

 They seemed pretty sealed to my head.... I don't think they're intended to be used so loose such that the earpads provide no support overall. Otherwise they could've just gone with no earpads. You could loosen the fit I suppose, but that's not how it was designed.


----------



## conquerator2

Kinda off topic, but...
  Speaking of planarmagnetic and electrostatic headphones....
  Why exactly does an electrostatic HP need a special electrostatic amp?
  Why, for instance, cant one use a sufficiently powerful speaker amp/ integrated with enough wattage and current?
  Also, hows it with the DACs for electrostats? Are there any rules/requirements one should follow?
  Thanks!
  (So far only owned dynamics and magneplanars and as I have no idea as what goes into the making of anelectrostatic HP,  I d  be really curious about that, especially with the Jade II approaching 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## n3rdling

If you want to direct drive electrostats you need an amp with a LOT of voltage gain.  Current is very low.  I believe the KGSS/BHSE have a gain of about 1000x and output voltage swing of something like 1400Vpp isn't unheard of with electrostatic amps.  This is order of magnitude higher than your typical dynamic HP amp or speaker amp.  You can however use a transformer to step up the voltage output of a speaker amp to make it suitable to drive electrostats (think Stax SRD series or Woo WEE).

EDIT:
Another reason you can't use a normal amp to drive an electrostat is the need of a bias line.  The stators each require a signal line (L-, L+, R-, R+) from the amp and an extra line to give the diaphragm a constant DC charge at the set bias level for the headphones.  This charge is what reacts to the signal charge on the stators to push and pull the membrane and create sound.


----------



## DefQon

Planar in a way work in a similar concept to ESL except rather than a membrane being driven in push pull affect and only part of the diaphragm the whole surface of a stator is charged and driven resulting in a balanced effect.


----------



## faverodefavero

Great first impressions review! Thanks. My thoughts where:
   
  I look at...
   
  Stax 009 = 5000$
   
  Audez' LCD-3 = 1900$
   
  HiFiMan HE-6 = 1200$
   
  Sennheiser HD-800 = 1100$
   
   
  ... then I see a 'boutique expansive cable company made right-out-of-a-90s-heavy-metal-videoclip-looking headphone' for 5000$. 
   
  Are you serious (...)?! Ridiculous price, terrible looks. And the way JPS talks about all the "new technology" they put on Abyss, in their website just seem duboius, and nowhere near profissional and serious as the HD800 or 009 information.


----------



## grokit

I would love to have an Abyss hanging about, but I would hate to part with the $5K


----------



## dBel84

The Abyss sits quite comfortably amongst its peers


----------



## faverodefavero

grokit said:


> I would love to have an Abyss hanging about, but I would hate to part with the $5K :angry_face:




They might be good headphones. I would spend 5'000.00$, but in a Stax 009 (if I ever am up to expending that much for a headphone)


----------



## dBel84

Quote: 





faverodefavero said:


> They might be good headphones. I would spend 5'000.00$, but in a Stax 009 (if I ever am up to expending that much for a headphone)


 
   
  I preferred them to both the SR009 and SR007 , bass had more impact but yet was just as nimble. High level detail was well separated and soundstage was expansive. Mids on the Abyss sound more focused which is one thing I preferred on either stats and LCD3. It is not distracting but the natural timbre ( probably a function of tonal decay ) is clearly defined , while the extended decay can be quite pleasant.


----------



## stacker45

Quote: 





faverodefavero said:


> Great first impressions review! Thanks. My thoughts where:
> 
> I look at...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Who care's if they're made by a cable company, they could be made by John Deer for all i care, has long as they sound good, for me, that's the most important thing.
   
  As i have said before, Ferrucio Lamborghini went from manufacturing farm tractors, to high end sports cars.
   
  And finally, looks is the least of my worries when buying something that i will wear indoors, and mostly when i'm alone, i mean, come on, it's not like you're going to have to wear them standing on a float at Macy's parade.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





dbel84 said:


> The Abyss sits quite comfortably amongst its peers


 
  Is that a Yamaha YH-1 on the left hand side?


----------



## stacker45

This is a lot of fire power, i spy my beloved Grado HP1000.


----------



## stacker45

This is a lot of fire power, i spy my beloved Grado HP1000.


----------



## stacker45

This is a lot of fire power, i spy my beloved Grado HP1000.


----------



## wink

This is a lot of fire power, i spy my beloved Grado HP1000.


----------



## dukeskd

There is a lot of fire power, i spy my beloved Grado HP1000.


----------



## grokit

That is a lot of fire power, I spy my beloved Grado HP1000.


----------



## wink

That is a lot of fire power, I spy my beloved Grado HP1000.


----------



## gikigill

C-C-C combo breaker


----------



## wink

So much for first impressions.....


----------



## DefQon

LOL


----------



## dBel84

Those are modded HP1000 and yes they are modded YH1

The grados were running off ECP audio Black Diamond II . Other headphones included RDs modded T50RP 

My take on these headphones is that there will be 2 groups of people :

1. People are either going to love it and not care about the price 

or 

2. they are going to like it but care a lot about the price


----------



## Happy Camper

dbel84 said:


> Those are modded HP1000 and yes they are modded YH1
> 
> The grados were running off ECP audio Black Diamond II . Other headphones included RDs modded T50RP
> 
> ...


So you have heard them? You like them more than the stats, that says something. Come on someone, give these things an extended listen.


----------



## DefQon

Dbel is an orthohead so keep that in mind as well.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Dbel is an orthohead so keep that in mind as well.


 

 Does that mean we should give his views on the Abyss more or less creedence?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Dbel is an orthohead so keep that in mind as well.


 
   
  Like the weed killer?


----------



## dBel84

Quote: 





hutnicks said:


> Does that mean we should give his views on the Abyss more or less creedence?


 
  never thought there was a doubt 
   
  Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Like the weed killer?


 
  my garden is weed free - but I don't kill them,  they just need to see me coming their way and they gap it.


----------



## DefQon

Nothing wrong being an orthohead.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

We've tried all possible transducer designs over many years. Our initial design was a Heil folded ribbon (I've done trade shows with and appreciate the work of a man who worked with Heil).

The Abyss AB-1266 is not an orthodynamic design, it's a single pole planar magnetic. The term "orthohead" need not apply.


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





joe skubinski said:


> We've tried all possible transducer designs over many years. Our initial design was a Heil folded ribbon (I've done trade shows with and appreciate the work of a man who worked with Heil).
> 
> The Abyss AB-1266 is not an orthodynamic design, it's a single pole planar magnetic. The term "orthohead" need not apply.


 

 Will you look at that! Joe 'president of JPS Labs' Skubinski himself responded. 

 Joe, how do you guys justify the price? Do you believe with proper amplification the sound quality will be better than a Stax SR-009 or a Sennheiser HE-90? Are there merits of the Abyss that we have perhaps overlooked?


----------



## M-13

^
  +1
   
  Yeah Joe, a more detailed explanation of all the new tech inside and why it's so costly to produce them might give us a better appreciation for the Abyss. I hate to think most of the cost is amortization for R&D and new equipment you purchased. I would like to know more about the Abyss if you care to explain how it's different from other planar magnetic designs in current production.


----------



## alienfox

addicted to audio?


----------



## n3rdling

I wanna know what the name came from (especially the AB-1266 part).  Interesting there's already an Abyss smiley here


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





n3rdling said:


> I wanna know what the name came from (especially the AB-1266 part).  Interesting there's already an Abyss smiley here


 

 Hahaha, better than the way Sony names their products. 

 And it appears that that smiley isn't on server but something Joe attached. Speaking of which, I've always wondered why there's no HD 600/650 smiley given that together, they perhaps encompass more head-fi audiophiles than any other headphones.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





happy camper said:


> So you have heard them? You like them more than the stats, that says something. Come on someone, give these things an extended listen.


 
   
  Quote: 





defqon said:


> Dbel is an orthohead so keep that in mind as well.


 
   
  Quote: 





hutnicks said:


> Does that mean we should give his views on the Abyss more or less creedence?


 
  It seems to me that Cavali has some sort of relationship with Abyss. There are photos of LAu and the Abyss on Cavali website. I don't know whether that is because Cavalii loves the sound of these headphones that much or that there is a business agreement driven by other considerations -- i.e. marketing one of the most expensive SS amps with the most expensive headphone (outside of e-stats) for the sake of image. I want to underscore that I do not know the reason and I believe that Cavali folks have tons of integrity. But when a company markets with another company I keep that in mind when I see one talking about another's product. It is not that I do not trust it, but I do want more folks posting seriously thought out impressions to add weight to the positive impressions above. Besides if dbel likes orthos (i.e. Audeze's) then I could see how he'd not rank the009 very high -- totally diff sound sig. I wonder what Tylor at Innerfidelity thinks about them. He love LCD3s. The piece by him I saw online was conspicuously empty of any impressions.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





joe skubinski said:


> The Abyss AB-1266 is not an orthodynamic design, it's a single pole planar magnetic. The term "orthohead" need not apply.


 
  Orthodynamic/isodynamic or not it is just a thrown marketing term since the Yamaha/ vintage Fostex days with there old headphones and mean the same thing regardless of the design of having a voice coil in the middle of the charged diaphragm or not. Yes the correct technical term for which all these fall under is planar magnetic technology. Since most users here are more familiar by the term "Orthodynamic" rather than planar magnetic, this was the reason I used the term to describe dbel's infatuation with planar magnetic headphones.


----------



## dBel84

@ Cante Ista : I appreciate your apprehension and although I do not work for Cavalli , I think it is clear that he is a dear friend and that I am involved with CA more than the average headfier. He runs a one man show and as such can get overloaded and it is more so at these times that I lend a hand, much like I would do for any other friend. I strive to retain a sense of neutrality , but I really like the gear Alex designs. I have built practically every amp he designed in the DIY forums, and tested many that never made it to the forums for various reasons - usually because he figured out a "better" way to do something and thus released the improved versions for DIY. This obviously changed when he started his commercial company but we have remained friends and I occasionally test concepts. This is my own doing as I enjoy this part of the hobby more than most things - tinkering. I do not own a headphone that has not been modified in some way, nearly all headphones are tested against a certain spec and this is offered to the public at large. When you know how to tailor something to suite yourself, it is difficult to leave it alone. That said, the only dynamic headphone I have kept is the K501, I really like it and it does so many things well. It does not have the agility of the planarmagnetics ( of which I own my fair share ) and thus I am intrinsically drawn to planar designs. I do not dislike stats either, I think they do many things well but in large, I have not felt that I was missing anything by not buying into the stat hype.  I probably don't take myself seriously enough. I should probably allow Alex to address the affiliations he has with Stax, Audeze, Sennheiser, HiFiMan and JPS amongst others. These are the products he has at shows and are often photographed with his electronics. The Abyss does benefit from serious amplification, (for the "orthoheads" it is less sensitive than the infamous wharfedale isodynamic ) , the Liquid Gold is serious amplification. He could have used the HE6 but there is a new toy on the block. To my knowledge, ( no lets say it outrightly ) there is no financial agreement between CA or any other vendor.  
   
  ..dB


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





dbel84 said:


> @ Cante Ista : I appreciate your apprehension and although I do not work for Cavalli , I think it is clear that he is a dear friend and that I am involved with CA more than the average headfier. He runs a one man show and as such can get overloaded and it is more so at these times that I lend a hand, much like I would do for any other friend. I strive to retain a sense of neutrality , but I really like the gear Alex designs. I have built practically every amp he designed in the DIY forums, and tested many that never made it to the forums for various reasons - usually because he figured out a "better" way to do something and thus released the improved versions for DIY. This obviously changed when he started his commercial company but we have remained friends and I occasionally test concepts. This is my own doing as I enjoy this part of the hobby more than most things - tinkering. I do not own a headphone that has not been modified in some way, nearly all headphones are tested against a certain spec and this is offered to the public at large. When you know how to tailor something to suite yourself, it is difficult to leave it alone. That said, the only dynamic headphone I have kept is the K501, I really like it and it does so many things well. It does not have the agility of the planarmagnetics ( of which I own my fair share ) and thus I am intrinsically drawn to planar designs. I do not dislike stats either, I think they do many things well but in large, I have not felt that I was missing anything by not buying into the stat hype.  I probably don't take myself seriously enough. I should probably allow Alex to address the affiliations he has with Stax, Audeze, Sennheiser, HiFiMan and JPS amongst others. These are the products he has at shows and are often photographed with his electronics. The Abyss does benefit from serious amplification, (for the "orthoheads" it is less sensitive than the infamous wharfedale isodynamic ) , the Liquid Gold is serious amplification. He could have used the HE6 but there is a new toy on the block. To my knowledge, ( no lets say it outrightly ) there is no financial agreement between CA or any other vendor.
> 
> ..dB


 
  Cool. I really appreciate your thoughtful response and clarifying some things for me and probably others as well. Your sub-line (under your name) confused me obviously and I do apologize.


----------



## dBel84

no apology needed. There are many layers to a forum (and a hobby) which has existed across several forums for many years, this title harks back to Headwize days and was bestowed as an affirmation that I tend to have more affiliation with Alex than most. In truth, many of the vendors have friendly relationships with many different members on the forum as most grew out of the forums themselves. 
  ..dB


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Orthodynamic/isodynamic or not it is just a thrown marketing term since the Yamaha/ vintage Fostex days with there old headphones and mean the same thing regardless of the design of having a voice coil in the middle of the charged diaphragm or not. Yes the correct technical term for which all these fall under is planar magnetic technology. Since most users here are more familiar by the term "Orthodynamic" rather than planar magnetic, this was the reason I used the term to describe dbel's infatuation with planar magnetic headphones.


 

 That and PlanarMagnetic Head just does not sound cool


----------



## Happy Camper

Planarhead and propellerhead are too close, though being a BMW fan, I've a few propellerhead hats. 

As we get some more experience with this headphone, a better view comes into focus. I'm not so concerned about pricing as the vendor will get defensive on justification. That's cool. The product will find it's place in the market eventually. I want to know more about the product and it's sound signature. I love my HE-6 and if there is something out there that can best it and can be driven with a speaker amp, I have a strong curiosity about it. I feel speaker amps have a broader offering and more flexibility with the hobby than a headphone amp. 

Joe, we are defensive in our little corner because of the past scams and otherwise upstanding companies that went silent and took 10s to 100s of thousands of dollars. Your product seems cloaked in secrecy but as more audition it, we'll be more engaged in it's abilities, though it will be out of the price range of many of us.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

n3rdling said:


> I wanna know what the name came from (especially the AB-1266 part).  Interesting there's already an Abyss smiley here :blink:




The AB part is short for Abyss, and 12 is the year 2012 when we finally arrived at the driver design. We continued to optimize it until we felt it was the absolute best we could achieve. 66 is the active driver diameter in mm.


----------



## DefQon

LOL I have to admit that model number is pretty cool now that we know what it means. Wish other companies will follow the same with branding models.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





defqon said:


> LOL I have to admit that model number is pretty cool now that we know what it means. Wish other companies will follow the same with branding models.


 

 And here I thought it was a reference to the French minting of gold and silver coins in that year.


----------



## DefQon

LOL


----------



## wink

I had no idea what it stood for, in fact, I didn't even know it had a model designation.
   
  Goes to show, if you lurk here long enough you mine copious nuggets of information which may perhaps enrich your understanding.


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





wink said:


> I had no idea what it stood for, in fact, I didn't even know it had a model designation.
> 
> Goes to show, if you lurk here long enough you *mine *copious *nuggets *of information which may perhaps *enrich *your understanding.


 

 I see what you did there... _wink_.


----------



## wafflezz

>retails for 5k, same as the sr-009 arguably the world's best headphone
 >They say it uses a 1k cable
 >sounds about as good as the LCD3 which is 2k


 In the trash it goes. These guys seem dishonest. That's never a good sign. I'm sure the Abyss sounds great but I'd rather strap those giant stax boxes to my head before buying into this placebo garbage.

 ...it does look beautiful though


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





wafflezz said:


> ...it does look beautiful though


 
  LOL


----------



## jsgraha

From sna forum 

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/54137-jps-abyss-headphones-listening-session/#entry906912


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





jsgraha said:


> From sna forum
> 
> http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/54137-jps-abyss-headphones-listening-session/#entry906912


 

 This is really starting to look more and more like you have to listen to them yourself.


----------



## dBel84

I have not said much but after spending a week with them , with the likes of the sr009 to compare them to, I think they are totl. Driven by the correct amp, they are one of the best headphone experiences I have ever had. This is with the liquid gold - abyss , I now know why Alex thought this ousted the SR009 and I agree.


----------



## Happy Camper

dbel84 said:


> I have not said much but after spending a week with them , with the likes of the sr009 to compare them to, I think they are totl. Driven by the correct amp, they are one of the best headphone experiences I have ever had. This is with the liquid gold - abyss , I now know why Alex thought this ousted the SR009 and I agree.


Well now, this is an interesting development. Did you buy these?


----------



## gikigill

Is this Alex Cavalli you refer to?


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





gikigill said:


> Is this Alex Cavalli you refer to?


 
  Who else?


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





dbel84 said:


> I have not said much but after spending a week with them , with the likes of the sr009 to compare them to, I think they are totl. Driven by the correct amp, they are one of the best headphone experiences I have ever had. This is with the liquid gold - abyss , I now know why Alex thought this ousted the SR009 and I agree.


 
  It will be funny (I mean that ironically ) if more people hear this and express the same views. Kind of reminds me when tons of people hated on the HD800 when it came out, but now is preferred by many of these people to their LCD3. these people passionately slammed HD 800 in its early days, but now favor it over any other can.I know it is not the same,  HD800 was criticized for its sound when people were not amping them properly (mostly), while this one on looks and price, which is something you cannot change unless you redesign it.  Still, goest to show how  things can change 
   
   
  @ Joe Skubiniski
  BTW, do you all plan on developing a little, more affordable, brother to the Abyss? Or maybe you are looking to take this one even further development wise? or are you just gonna stay with one HP in your portfolio?


----------



## alvin sawdust

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> @ Joe Skubiniski
> BTW, do you all plan on developing a little, more affordable, brother to the Abyss? Or maybe you are looking to take this one even further development wise? or are you just gonna stay with one HP in your portfolio?


 
  Good question. Whadya know Joe?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Time will tell...


----------



## alvin sawdust

Quote: 





joe skubinski said:


> Time will tell...


 
  You tease you


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





joe skubinski said:


> Time will tell...


 
  So there is nothing in the works right now? You are not even doing any concept concept exploration or analysis of alternatives?


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> So there is nothing in the works right now? You are not even doing any concept concept exploration or analysis of alternatives?


 

 I think the decision will be made after how successful these are..


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> I think the decision will be made after how successful these are..


 
  +1.
   
  These will sell better if they were marked at $2000-2800.


----------



## thegrobe

From the Abyss website:

“Machined aluminum construction and high quality finishes made to last a lifetime, lambskin and leather padding for a soft connection to the ears and head, and a *pleather* of adjustability for fit adds to your enjoyment of music for years to come“

Perhaps they meant “*plethora*"...there better not be any pleather anywhere near this thing...not for 5K! LOL


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> From the Abyss website:
> 
> “Machined aluminum construction and high quality finishes made to last a lifetime, lambskin and leather padding for a soft connection to the ears and head, and a *pleather* of adjustability for fit adds to your enjoyment of music for years to come“
> 
> Perhaps they meant “*plethora*"...there better not be any pleather anywhere near this thing...not for 5K! LOL


 

 No kidding. And would it not be Plambskin?


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Perhaps they meant “*plethora*"...there better not be any pleather anywhere near this thing...not for 5K! LOL


 
  Sennheiser's more expensive HE90 uses pleather IIRC.


----------



## thegrobe

I just thought it was a funny/unfortunately placed typo, as it was in the section describing the high quality materials. 

"Plambskin" Lol. Good one

I've noticed now the typo on their site has been corrected! That was quick!

You're welcome, Joe...

Despite the price, it would be very interesting to hear these vs. my LCD-3.


----------



## 45longcolt

I found the Abyss frustrating - as much as I liked the sound, pretty much everything else about them is anything from a minor disappointment to a deal breaker.
   
  As to sound quality, there's nothing I can complain about. From me, that's a ringing endorsement.
   
  I couldn't get a good fit - perhaps if I was lying down with a couple of pillows to keep my head and the phones in the just right alignment. Not bloody likely.
   
  These things were apparently styled by a blacksmith, an impatient blacksmith. And the finish - just toss it all in the anodizing bath. Call it goth or call it tactical, it's so last millennium.
   
  Why am I being so harsh? The price. If these were $500, I'd happily overlook the flaws. If they were $2K, I'd imagine Audeze would be worried. Hell, I'd own a pair.
   
  While I'm sure JPS incurred significant R&D and tooling costs, I suspect they made a calculated (and to my mind cynical) decision on pricing. That is, to emulate Rolex, Porsche, Armani etc. and attempt to become a status symbol. Guaranteeing exclusivity by pricing the proletariat out of the experience. And hey, nothing wrong with that.
   
  While these are closer to an electrostat than the Audeze, I don't believe they're a real threat to the 009s. A stat diaphragm will always be lighter than a planar, all else being equal. Thus the Stax will always be more accurate, especially when it comes to acoustic music.


----------



## Gorillaz

Quote: 





45longcolt said:


> I found the Abyss frustrating - as much as I liked the sound, pretty much everything else about them is anything from a minor disappointment to a deal breaker.
> 
> As to sound quality, there's nothing I can complain about. From me, that's a ringing endorsement.
> 
> ...


 
  Totally agree with the status symbol paragraph.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> I just thought it was a funny/unfortunately placed typo, as it was in the section describing the high quality materials.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  LOL


----------



## jackskelly

I am very interested to hear what people say about these as more people get to hear these headphones. I'd like to hear what Tyll thinks of these.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





gorillaz said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah that was a good one


----------



## wink

Quote:thegrobe 





> there better not be any pleather anywhere near this thing...not for 5K! LOL


 
  Maybe they should have opted for alcantara for that durable characteristic.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





wink said:


> Maybe they should have opted for alcantara for that durable characteristic.


 

 I think a headphone with croc leather would be a great seller.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> I think a headphone with croc leather would be a great seller.


 

 Crock Leather, Elephant Ivory cups, Whalebone headband. Sure to sell out.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
   
   
   
Except they'd probably make it look like something from the Flintstones.


----------



## thegrobe

Pick and choose your own baby seal. Very exclusive.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





thegrobe said:


> Pick and choose your own baby seal. Very exclusive.


 
  hahaha


----------



## gikigill

Pick and choose your very own Whale Penis leather.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





gikigill said:


> Pick and choose your very own Whale Penis leather.


 
  Ships with a pound of ambergris.


----------



## grokit

I knew I shouldn't have googled that but I did it anyways.


----------



## DefQon

What ambergris? That stuff is used for making perfume.


----------



## Duckman

Heard them again yesterday out of the Liquid Glass. They are a great headphone, the best I've heard yet.
   
  My only complaint is an upper-mids emphasis that I imagine would be fatiguing after a while. But perhaps it was simply giving me what the DAC and amp were offering.
   
  The bass is to die for, easily trumping my LCD3 in terms of clarity and detail. The soundstage and separation are wonderful to behold. If they were $3k, I'd be seriously tempted.
   
  Agree about the styling and comfort. It's a wonder they couldn't do better.


----------



## wuwhere

I hope this technology continues to develop with thinner diaphragm and deposit voice coil.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





duckman said:


> Heard them again yesterday out of the Liquid Glass. They are a great headphone, *the best I've heard yet.*
> 
> My only complaint is an upper-mids emphasis that I imagine would be fatiguing after a while. But perhaps it was simply giving me what the DAC and amp were offering.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Duck..   Say what???  The best - That's a very good complement.


----------



## zachchen1996

duckman said:


> Heard them again yesterday out of the Liquid Glass. They are a great headphone, the best I've heard yet.
> 
> My only complaint is an upper-mids emphasis that I imagine would be fatiguing after a while. But perhaps it was simply giving me what the DAC and amp were offering.
> 
> ...




The abyss' bass beats the lcd3s bass in terms of detail? Wow thought the LCD-3 bass was already as detailed and layered as it comes! Wonder how the abyss would compare to the 009s in terms of clarity and detail.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





zachchen1996 said:


> The abyss' bass beats the lcd3s bass in terms of detail? Wow thought the LCD-3 bass was already as detailed and layered as it comes! Wonder how the abyss would compare to the 009s in terms of clarity and detail.


 
  Well the OP said that the Abyss doesn't come close to the HD800's in terms of those areas. And I know the SR-009 is better than the HD800 again in those mentioned area's. So go figure.


----------



## zachchen1996

defqon said:


> Well the OP said that the Abyss doesn't come close to the HD800's in terms of those areas. And I know the SR-009 is better than the HD800 again in those mentioned area's. So go figure.




wow im a dumb***, and this is why I shouldn't be on head-fi at 5 in the morning!


----------



## preproman

Yeah - I'll take the HD800 and the HE-6 over the LCD-3 in those particular areas.  "Bass quality (resolution detail)"   I'll take the LCD-3 for it's bass quantity (slam)


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Yeah - I'll take the HD800 and the HE-6 over the LCD-3 in those particular areas.  "Bass quality (resolution detail)"   I'll take the LCD-3 for it's bass quantity (slam)


 
  Ditto to this.


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Well the OP said that the Abyss doesn't come close to the HD800's in terms of those areas. And I know the SR-009 is better than the HD800 again in those mentioned area's. So go figure.


 

 Hahaha, you say that as if I am some authoritative expert in headphone sound analysis, but in truth I'm just another enthusiastic lover of this hobby of ours. 

 Having said that, I have since reauditioned the Abyss on the Cavalli Liquid Gold, balanced, and I must say that there's been a big improvement. Soundstage again wider. Instrument depth and separation is surreal. Every positive I mentioned about the Abyss has improved. It's truly amazing and given this, has way surpassed the LCD 3s in every way technically (although of course you may still prefer the sound of the LCD 3s).

 I believe what we have here is the *best planar magnetic headphone in existence at the time of writing*. Just as I can say the HD 800 is the best dynamic headphone in existence and the SR-009 is the best electrostatic headphone in existence. 
  
  However, an end-game SR-009 setup is still (in my opinion) easily better than an end-game Abyss/HD 800 setup but in terms of the latter two, they are easily on par with one another. Each with their own areas where they excel. For example, I still feel that imaging, detail retrieval, clarity and overall transparency is better with the HD 800 but properly amped, the Abyss is a close contender in those aspects and excels in terms of soundstage, instrument separation and decay.  

 Bear in mind that what constitutes as "easily better" for a head-fier is quite minimal difference for everybody else and this here is an obvious case of chase that last 1%.

 This means that a choice between a setup with the Abyss or the HD 800 is purely down to preferences of sound signature/presentation and price. At $4000 more for equivalent performance, you better really love the sound of the Abyss over the HD 800.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> At $4000 more for equivalent performance, you better really love the sound of the Abyss over the HD 800.


 
  Damn straight, but don't forget that you'd need a minimum of $8-9k including the price of the Abyss to get decent performance out of them, the HD800 on the other hand you can get end game rig if not better in most areas where people look at, clarity, detail retrieval, neutrality, it will cost the same as a single Abyss headphone which in my opinion is a damn killer of a deal. But if I had $9k to spend I would go via speakers or the SR-009 no questions asked.
   
  Also the depth of the earpads on the Abyss could explain why the perceived soundstage sound big, but honestly any soundstage bigger than the HD800 will imho sound bad with music as things are too spaced out, far apart and dis-jointed. For classical this is a good thing but for all other types of genre...hmmmmmm.
   
  Btw what is the diameter on the Abyss earpads?


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Damn straight, but don't forget that you'd need a minimum of $8-9k including the price of the Abyss to get decent performance out of them, *the HD800 on the other hand you can get end game rig if not better in most areas where people look at, clarity, detail retrieval, neutrality, it will cost the same as a single Abyss headphone which in my opinion is a damn killer of a deal.* But if I had $9k to spend I would go via speakers or the SR-009 no questions asked.
> 
> Also the depth of the earpads on the Abyss could explain why the perceived soundstage sound big, but honestly any soundstage bigger than the HD800 will imho sound bad with music as things are too spaced out, far apart and dis-jointed. For classical this is a good thing but for all other types of genre...hmmmmmm.
> 
> Btw what is the diameter on the Abyss earpads?


 
  I used to run DL3>DNA Sonett>HD800. Whole set up new cost me around 3K and that is including the DAC and it was really dam good! I am still hard pressed to find an amp+HD800 combo that would blow that out of the water. Sure there are are better set up (i.e. my current PWD2>F3>HD800/HE6) but Sonett based system was really close for WAY LESS money.
   
  @DefQon, when i heard HD800 on the DNA Stratus the sound stage was not as huge as always, I would recommend you audition that set up. This is was at a meet so I could be wrong but it is worth a listen. BTW -- I have no relation to DNA aside from being a happy customer)


----------



## dBel84

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> Having said that, I have since reauditioned the Abyss on the Cavalli Liquid Gold,


 
  I think you meant to say the Liquid Glass(LG) with a 4-pin connector but running single ended?
   

   
  I have the only Liquid Gold in existence in my basement (waiting to go back to Alex) after he kindly sent it for the Chicago meet. The reason I am clarifying this is that the Liquid Gold (LAu) is a fully differential balanced amp while the Liquid Glass (LG) is a tube hybrid single ended design. I didn't think / wouldn't have believed that it could get much better than the LG until I had both amps together and the improvement all round is difficult for me to accept. To my ears, the LG is akin to the best rendition of a SET amp - as this is what it is, the triode does all the work, the buffer fades into the background and "fools" the tube into thinking it is seeing no load and thus it operates at its peak linear point with only the intrinsic tube distortion spec. The buffer takes the load and handles the huge voltage swings. I thought the Abyss sounded fantastic in this set up. When I got the liquid gold ( LAu) from Alex (Cavalli) , I was in denial. Bass tightens up even more, the sense of space within music feels more defined - probably due to better absolute resolution. It was this combination that I preferred over the SR009. I do plan to spend some time comparing the Abyss to the HD800 , my initial take was that the HD800 sounded subdued in comparison - and I am not talking about the top end which hopefully not much gets as excitable, but in overall presentation - it felt like it was having a tough time keeping up. This was a very short comparison, and i don't place much weight on it myself. I like the HD800 very much , especially with the LG. 
   
  ..dB


----------



## scolaiw

dbel84 said:


> I think you meant to say the Liquid Glass(LG) with a 4-pin connector but running single ended?




You are absolutely correct, my mistake. We've established once before that I'm clearly not the best with Head-Fi component names. Although I at least partially attribute that to the eccentric naming choices of the various gifted (but no-doubt a tiny little bit kooky) engineers and component makers. The worst for me is how Toxic Cables names their cables. Black Widow(?), Silver Widow(?), something something Scorpion(?).... Haha, I'm hopeless.


----------



## Duckman

Quote: 





zachchen1996 said:


> The abyss' bass beats the lcd3s bass in terms of detail? Wow thought the LCD-3 bass was already as detailed and layered as it comes! Wonder how the abyss would compare to the 009s in terms of clarity and detail.


 
   
  I've had a fair amount of experience with the LCD3 out of a number of good amps, and the Abyss - in a half hour demo - was pretty easily my favourite in terms of its bass. It was more balanced/less emphasised, and yet hit harder and with greater clarity.
   
  In defence of the LCD3, I think it has a sweeter (yet less detailed) midrange. I love its musicality.
   
  My preference has never been for the HD800, though I've had the opportunity to appreciate its virtues numerous times. And though both phones seem to strive for a similar kind of neutrality, I'd take the Abyss every day of the week, given a choice. The Abyss is simply awesome with rock music (for example), whereas the 800 has always left me wanting.
   
  Haven't heard the 009, but given the Abyss' technical prowess, I'd assume it would give the Stax a run for its money. The separation of sounds, which I've heard is amazing with the 009, is also a virtue of the Abyss.
   
  I've heard that the Abyss' fantastic soundstaging capability is due to some innovation regarding the magnets. Please correct me, but I think there is no back magnet in the Abyss - that somehow the driver is not sandwiched between two magnets.
   
  Obviously I have no idea


----------



## DefQon

30 minutes worth of demo time is not enough. The brain works in wonderful ways and one of them is the influence of new products where you automatically think newer is better and the the way your brain wants to believe there is a massive difference. This placebo wears off when you have compared two products extensibly to death with more than just 30 minutes demo time.

From what I've read so far the LCD3 and Abyss are two differebt sounding headphones. The LCD3 are more fun, liquidy and forgiving sounding. What it seems is that the Abyss is targetting neutrality such as the HD800's or any of the upper Stax for that matter.

I will give these an audition sometime in the near future when I have time to go to Kew.


----------



## thegrobe

I mean no disrespect to anyone who has posted initial impressions here or anywhere else. (I'm not picking anybody out, please don't bite my head off)

But I have to wonder how much the price affects expectations with something like this. What I mean is...what if it was priced at, say, $1600? Would the impressions be weighing strengths/weaknesses/preferences with HD800, LCD-2/3, etc. rather than "it's the best"?

The shocking price must somehow affect expectations.


----------



## Duckman

Perhaps, but my hope and expectation was that the LCD3 would be the better phone; and when switching between the two I couldn't help bobbing my head more with the Abyss.
   
  It's a shame Addicted to Audio won't allow me to compare them extensibly to death.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Ditto to this.


 
  Not for me. I'd say LCD-3 = HD800 for bass quality and then the HE-6s (tied with the HE-500s...as they go a bit deeper). But all fall behind the SR-009s. I'd like to hear these headphones though.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Not for me. I'd say LCD-3 = HD800 for bass quality and then the HE-6s (tied with the HE-500s...as they go a bit deeper). But all fall behind the SR-009s. I'd like to hear these headphones though.


 
  Really? I felt that the LCD3 as well as the LCD2's have about the same weight to bass more so than the HD800's though. But I guess it depends on what music/genre you're basing off a bass comparison, not sure if you listen to heavy and fast EDM but the LCD2/3 bass has more weight to it then the HD800's. Although the HD800's is no slouch in the bass department as well imho.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Really? I felt that the LCD3 as well as the LCD2's have about the same weight to bass more so than the HD800's though. But I guess it depends on what music/genre you're basing off a bass comparison, not sure if you listen to heavy and fast EDM but the LCD2/3 bass has more weight to it then the HD800's. Although the HD800's is no slouch in the bass department as well imho.


 
  I find the bass QUALITY of the LCD-3s is a cut above the LCD-2s. But that said, you're gonna need to worry about the amp. Unlike the LCD-2s that play nice with basically everything, the LCD-3s are far more sensitive IME. On the Lyr, the quality wasn't that pronounced. But say on a Liquid Fire, WA22 or better still GS-X, the LCD-3s pull out ahead. The other thing, when watching a movie and the bass is really going heavy, only the LCD-3s can properly portray that bass. Look at the 30 and 50 square wave plots.....the LCD-3's transducers are giving you what's on the recording. 
   
  Agreed that the HD800s are no slouch either...but also depends on the upfront gear.


----------



## FraGGleR

I was fortunate to hear the Abyss off of the Liquid Gold at the recent Chicago meet (thanks dBel84!).  A set of LCD-3's were plugged into the same amp, and there was an SR-009 on a Liquid Lightning next to it, as well as a Liquid Glass that I had my HD800's plugged into.  Obviously, meet conditions are not ideal, and I only had a few minutes on each setup, but I am more impressed with the Abyss than I thought I would be.  I still think that for however amazingly detailed and smooth the SR-009s are, they just don't have enough bass for me.  I am missing that visceral feel.  The Abyss had a more preferred balance for me, and whatever it gave up in detail or smoothness to the SR-009s, I was ok with.  In comparison, the LCD-3's sounded overly intimate and closed in.  One thing I am not sure about is the fit of the Abyss.  They hung off of my head with no real seal for the earpads.  While I understand that this is somewhat intentional, I'd have to think that the sound would be different if I had a larger head (or the frame could be adjusted).


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I find the bass QUALITY of the LCD-3s is a cut above the LCD-2s. But that said, you're gonna need to worry about the amp. Unlike the LCD-2s that play nice with basically everything, the LCD-3s are far more sensitive IME.


 
  The LCD3's sensitive with amplification? Yes but not by a lot compared to its older brother. I wouldn't exactly agree the LCD2's playing nice with basically everything either and the LCD2 rev.1's are little less forgiving with amplification than the rev.2's. For example, on most tube amp's I've tried, DIY or even popular off-shelf stuff from Woo, Darkvoice amp's etc, the LCD2's just don't sound as good when fed with good clean neutral or bright but powerful solid state power. The LCD2's and 3's I can also say is one headphone that you don't want anything such as an amp too coloured sounding as this seriously bloats up the sound from these headphones, you want an amp with plenty of power to deliver clean power, amplifying the strong points of headphone itself, the LCD2's and 3's without reference to FR graphs and CSD plots are anything but neutral, some aspects of the sound is neutral this I agree, but it is far from being completely neutral and this includes the infamous Audeze bass response as well. 
   
  Regardless of both, none of the two mentioned headphones require finicky amplification that the HD800's do.
   
  Quote: 





fraggler said:


> Obviously, meet conditions are not ideal, and I only had a few minutes on each setup, but I am more impressed with the Abyss than I thought I would be.


 
  For $5.5k you should be damned impressed at this price-point and there is no excuse for this whatsoever. Judging from what I've read and seen, these are good but not $5.5k good. That crown belongs to the SR-009.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





defqon said:


> The LCD3's sensitive with amplification? Yes but not by a lot compared to its older brother. I wouldn't exactly agree the LCD2's playing nice with basically everything either and the LCD2 rev.1's are little less forgiving with amplification than the rev.2's. For example, on most tube amp's I've tried, DIY or even popular off-shelf stuff from Woo, Darkvoice amp's etc, the LCD2's just don't sound as good when fed with good clean neutral or bright but powerful solid state power. The LCD2's and 3's I can also say is one headphone that you don't want anything such as an amp too coloured sounding as this seriously bloats up the sound from these headphones, you want an amp with plenty of power to deliver clean power, amplifying the strong points of headphone itself, the LCD2's and 3's without reference to FR graphs and CSD plots are anything but neutral, some aspects of the sound is neutral this I agree, but it is far from being completely neutral and this includes the infamous Audeze bass response as well.
> 
> Regardless of both, none of the two mentioned headphones require finicky amplification that the HD800's do.
> 
> For $5.5k you should be damned impressed at this price-point and there is no excuse for this whatsoever. Judging from what I've read and seen, these are good but not $5.5k good. That crown belongs to the SR-009.


 

 Well I'm hearing everything from they are better than the 009, they cannot run with the 800's they are better than the LCD's, they are not on par with the LCD's. So when all is said and done there is so much conflicting information that in essence there is no information at all.
   
  It would seem it's every man for himself here, and this man chooses to keep the 5.5 grand in the bank.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





defqon said:


> The LCD3's sensitive with amplification? Yes but not by a lot compared to its older brother. I wouldn't exactly agree the LCD2's playing nice with basically everything either and the LCD2 rev.1's are little less forgiving with amplification than the rev.2's. For example, on most tube amp's I've tried, DIY or even popular off-shelf stuff from Woo, Darkvoice amp's etc, the LCD2's just don't sound as good when fed with good clean neutral or bright but powerful solid state power. The LCD2's and 3's I can also say is one headphone that you don't want anything such as an amp too coloured sounding as this seriously bloats up the sound from these headphones, you want an amp with plenty of power to deliver clean power, amplifying the strong points of headphone itself, the LCD2's and 3's without reference to FR graphs and CSD plots are anything but neutral, some aspects of the sound is neutral this I agree, but it is far from being completely neutral and this includes the infamous Audeze bass response as well.
> 
> Regardless of both, none of the two mentioned headphones require finicky amplification that the HD800's do.
> 
> For $5.5k you should be damned impressed at this price-point and there is no excuse for this whatsoever. Judging from what I've read and seen, these are good but not $5.5k good. That crown belongs to the SR-009.


 
  It is absolutely sensitive by a good margin over the LCD-2s. I've owned them since release date and have tried many amps with them. Sorry I can't agree here. Have you tried the WA22 with about $1k of upgraded tubes, Liquid Fire with a quad of Siemens tubes, GS-X (w/ upgraded Dynalo+ modules) and GS-X MKII (really the same as the GS-X with upgraded Dynalo+ modules)? I have and have done the same with the HD800s for about 1.5 years all here at home over many many months. This is simply not true based on my experiences. What "tube amps and DIY amps" have you heard them with? Could be that none were up to par for them and you haven't heard them at their best. I agree that the LCD-3s aren't as finicky as the HD800s (but what is?), but they are a darn much more difficult and sensitive than the LCD-2s (either revision...which I've owned and published reviews on). 
   
  I happen to own the SR-009s and completely agree with your comments on them...they are spectacular and worth the price of admission. They are that darn good. Now with the Abyss, I'd love to see some measurements too.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





hutnicks said:


> Well I'm hearing everything from they are better than the 009, they cannot run with the 800's they are better than the LCD's, they are not on par with the LCD's. So when all is said and done there is so much conflicting information that in essence there is no information at all.
> 
> It would seem it's every man for himself here, and this man chooses to keep the 5.5 grand in the bank.


 
  I know that's why I need to go hear these things for myself because I've owned/heard all the other mentioned flagships so far this way I can come to a final honest decision of how well these things are. Before OP heard these on the Cavali amp, the Abyss was no match for the HD800's neutrality but still better than the LCD3's fun intimate sound (these are both very different sounding headphones is what I've so far gathered). Skip few weeks, OP hears the AB's again on the Cavali amp and so far OP claims these are still better than the LCD3's but closer almost neck to neck with the HD800 performance because both seem to be aiming for the neutral sound, OP also claims these are the best ortho to date in his "imo". 
   
  Duckman then says these are his favourite sounding headphone so far and easily better than the LCD3 (again different sound signature, personal sound preferences YMMV etc etc). Duckman has only heard these for 30 minutes (not anywhere near enough to judge anything and the brain placebo has kicked in when new gear is released, much like cables and FOTM's, eventually they wear off). He hasn't heard the SR-009 but from what I've read in his post and from my perspective sounds like he is saying these should/most likely sound better than the SR-009 without experiencing them first (not defending the SR-009 as they aren't my cup of tea as well). 
   
  I know MacodonianHero prefer's the Audeze's to the Hifiman range (perhaps bad amp/source combination of the time speaking or just preference for sound for the Audeze lineup), but I can suggest from what I've read from a few TOTL gear owner's in the Summit-Fi section that a very well powered HE-6 is about the only ortho at this time to come close to the SR-009 detail retrieval, clarity and neutrality. Everyone needs to have this in a comparison against the Abyss (or the Abyss running off speaker taps) then determine which is best so far.
   
  But A2A's 30-40minute audition time for these and lack of other serious TOTL gear makes this episode of "down-under" comparison between the orthos is really _______ <fill in blank with crap/bad synonym slang terms>


----------



## MacedonianHero

defqon said:


> I know that's why I need to go hear these things for myself because I've owned/heard all the other mentioned flagships so far this way I can come to a final honest decision of how well these things are. Before OP heard these on the Cavali amp, the Abyss was no match for the HD800's neutrality but still better than the LCD3's fun intimate sound (these are both very different sounding headphones is what I've so far gathered). Skip few weeks, OP hears the AB's again on the Cavali amp and so far OP claims these are still better than the LCD3's but closer almost neck to neck with the HD800 performance because both seem to be aiming for the neutral sound, OP also claims these are the best ortho to date in his "imo".
> 
> Duckman then says these are his favourite sounding headphone so far and easily better than the LCD3 (again different sound signature, personal sound preferences YMMV etc etc). Duckman has only heard these for 30 minutes (not anywhere near enough to judge anything and the brain placebo has kicked in when new gear is released, much like cables and FOTM's, eventually they wear off). He hasn't heard the SR-009 but from what I've read in his post and from my perspective sounds like he is saying these should/most likely sound better than the SR-009 without experiencing them first (not defending the SR-009 as they aren't my cup of tea as well).
> 
> ...




For the record, I've heard the he6s (which I like very much) on a few really nice DACS (Cary XCiter DAC, Bryston BDA1 and the Wyred4Sound DAC2) and with regards to amps, my buddy's Pioneer SX980 vintage speaker amp and my brother's outstanding McIntosh amp (along with many headphone amps). The LCD3s are better to my ears so I eventually sold off my HE6s.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> The LCD3s are better to my ears do I sold off my HE6s.


 
  Yep and that is why I mentioned it so nobody else would come in here and start a flame war of HE-6 owning LCD3 or whatever. Not like there is anything wrong with preferring the LCD3's over the HE-6. I like both too, but I just like the meatier sound of the HE-6 more when I had it on a pair of Raysonic M100 monoblocks.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





defqon said:


> I know that's why I need to go hear these things for myself because I've owned/heard all the other mentioned flagships so far this way I can come to a final honest decision of how well these things are. Before OP heard these on the Cavali amp, the Abyss was no match for the HD800's neutrality but still better than the LCD3's fun intimate sound (these are both very different sounding headphones is what I've so far gathered). Skip few weeks, OP hears the AB's again on the Cavali amp and so far OP claims these are still better than the LCD3's but closer almost neck to neck with the HD800 performance because both seem to be aiming for the neutral sound, OP also claims these are the best ortho to date in his "imo".
> 
> Duckman then says these are his favourite sounding headphone so far and easily better than the LCD3 (again different sound signature, personal sound preferences YMMV etc etc). Duckman has only heard these for 30 minutes (not anywhere near enough to judge anything and the brain placebo has kicked in when new gear is released, much like cables and FOTM's, eventually they wear off). He hasn't heard the SR-009 but from what I've read in his post and from my perspective sounds like he is saying these should/most likely sound better than the SR-009 without experiencing them first (not defending the SR-009 as they aren't my cup of tea as well).
> 
> ...


 

 Ok my big issue with "TOTL" reviews of headphones is precisely this. It is never a review of a headphone but rather a headphone system. By this I mean the entire playback system is being reviewed and much as one would not think of trying to separate a 009 from it's amp, I believe we need to start looking at the entire picture as the performance you are going to experience with "your" system is likely as not  to have no resemblance to the system tested.
   
  I would personally be much happier if the reviewers tested with some POS amp that anyone could lay their hands on so a least we would have a minimum reference which could be repeated.
   
  Just what in fact are we hearing reviewed these days. A playback chain, or a single component?


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





hutnicks said:


> I would personally be much happier if the reviewers tested with some POS amp that anyone could lay their hands on so a least we would have a minimum reference which could be repeated.


 
  This ^


----------



## Joe Skubinski

How would that better differentiate between a good set of headphones, and a great set?


----------



## etherlite

IMO it'd be difficult and unfair for the TOTL headphones to be reviewed with low-mid end DAC & Amps
   
  In extreme example, it's like reviewing HE-6 using dacport LX & schiit asgard, and the review is just going to say that it doesn't worth the price difference, you'd better just buy ATH-M50 or max HD650
   
  If it requires high end system, so be it. But that is also a point of consideration before buying the abyss. You might be content with your system with your LCD-3 or HE-6, but abyss might need some more
   
  @defqon: I don't understand why you are still making conclusion by what you've seen and read, just drive off to A2A and judge by your own ears? You're living in Melbourne >.>


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> IMO it'd be difficult and unfair for the TOTL headphones to be reviewed with low-mid end DAC & Amps
> 
> 
> @defqon: I don't understand why you are still making conclusion by what you've seen and read, just drive off to A2A and judge by your own ears? You're living in Melbourne >.>


 
  1. Not really some "low/mid-fi" pair do just as well as some high end stuff. It all comes down to synergy at the end of the day.
   
  2. I know  I know, I need to make some time for an audition but A2A isn't exactly close to me neither.


----------



## etherlite

'synergy' might be a suitable word for some high-end headphones because their sound signature is compatible with the system, but most times it just sounds good, still less than 50%of their capabilities (mostly technicality-wise)
   
  especially you're comparing it with other TOTL headphones, is it fair to give a scoring if the headphone can't give their best?
   
  lol, I'm still waiting until August for my graduation in Melbourne to be able to re-audition abyss with LG or LAu....


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> 'synergy' might be a suitable word for some high-end headphones because their sound signature is compatible with the system, but most times it just sounds good, still less than 50%of their capabilities (mostly technicality-wise)
> 
> especially you're comparing it with other TOTL headphones, is it fair to give a scoring if the headphone can't give their best?
> 
> lol, I'm still waiting until August for my graduation in Melbourne to be able to re-audition abyss with LG or LAu....


 
  1. Well we're talking about mid-high end here so it's ok to dismiss the low-fi grade stuff. Synergy applies to anything that has the potential to sound good and I think it start's from a mid fi headphone such as the HD580/600, SA3/5k, DT 880 Prem 600ohm, T5p, AD2000/W1000X etc. Do note that you can get a mess of a sound if you pair these headphones with the wrong amplifier just to give you any idea. Synergy isn't restricted to just high-end headphones it applies to almost anything with a transducer capable of delivering better sound but with the weakest link in the chain, the amplifier (minus source). If you think "synergy" only applies to the HD800 between it and the amp, you're wrong. 
   
  2. I think you're getting confused to what I was saying and what Hutnicks was trying to convey. The thing is not about getting any amp and expecting it to shine with a TOTL headphone, no it doesn't work that way. What I was saying is that, with comparison's sometimes you can't always have everything in the same picture. For example, OP re-did a test with the Abyss on the Cavali amp, the Cavali amp isn't you're regular $1-2k high end headphone amp it is a summit-fi amp ($2k + if we put an acceptable figure). While this combination may sound extremely good, it is also important to know what amp the HD800/LCD3 was running off. The HD800 itself has a history of not pairing well with a large number of amplifiers, only synergising well a certain few. It also worthy to note that our distributor A2A don't have some of the other well acclaimed amplifiers around these boards, the Eddie Current range, Headamp etc. So what you have in the end is a half arsed picture of one side telling the story. 
  
  For a perfect review comparing all the flagships, every high-end amp/TOTL headphone needs to be included in the review. Unfortunately for us Aussies, we are limited to what we can grab our hands on, in the US, with meets and audio festivals that happen quite frequently, put's us out of the picture.


----------



## Duckman

I said the bass and soundstage were superior, but that I preferred the sweeter mids of the LCD3. Overall, on the basis of a short demo, I preferred the Abyss.
   
  As for comparison with the 009, I didn't imply that the Abyss was better. I just assume it would be competitive given what I've heard of the 009.
   
  Quote: 





defqon said:


> Duckman then says these are his favourite sounding headphone so far and easily better than the LCD3 (again different sound signature, personal sound preferences YMMV etc etc). Duckman has only heard these for 30 minutes (not anywhere near enough to judge anything and the brain placebo has kicked in when new gear is released, much like cables and FOTM's, eventually they wear off). He hasn't heard the SR-009 but from what I've read in his post and from my perspective sounds like he is saying these should/most likely sound better than the SR-009 without experiencing them first (not defending the SR-009 as they aren't my cup of tea as well).


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





duckman said:


> I said the bass and soundstage were superior, but that I preferred the sweeter mids of the LCD3. Overall, on the basis of a short demo, I preferred the Abyss.
> 
> As for comparison with the 009, I didn't imply that the Abyss was better. I just assume it would be competitive given what I've heard of the 009.


 
  Again you proved my post what i was saying. Overall you preferred the Abyss. You did in fact point out that it would be competitive against the 009 without hearing it, this would mean coming close or succeeding some of the 009's sound aspects.


----------



## etherlite

I thought A2A is bringing in headamp series including GS-X? As for eddie current, ask maus, he got ZD
   


duckman said:


> I said the bass and soundstage were superior, but that I preferred the sweeter mids of the LCD3.


 

  Totally Agree, I also prefer my LCD2.1 mid over Abyss'


----------



## tdogzthmn

Haha these are ugly as hell. I'm sure the engineering team worked hard on the functional aspects of the driver units but it looks like little though and time were put into the aesthetic and ergonomic aspects of the product. For something priced at that level I think the level of fit and finish needs to be raised.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





defqon said:


> 2. I think you're getting confused to what I was saying and what Hutnicks was trying to convey. The thing is not about getting any amp and expecting it to shine with a TOTL headphone, no it doesn't work that way. What I was saying is that, with comparison's sometimes you can't always have everything in the same picture. For example, OP re-did a test with the Abyss on the Cavali amp, the Cavali amp isn't you're regular $1-2k high end headphone amp it is a summit-fi amp ($2k + if we put an acceptable figure). While this combination may sound extremely good, it is also important to know what amp the HD800/LCD3 was running off. The HD800 itself has a history of not pairing well with a large number of amplifiers, only synergising well a certain few. It also worthy to note that our distributor A2A don't have some of the other well acclaimed amplifiers around these boards, the Eddie Current range, Headamp etc. So what you have in the end is a half arsed picture of one side telling the story.
> 
> For a perfect review comparing all the flagships, every high-end amp/TOTL headphone needs to be included in the review. Unfortunately for us Aussies, we are limited to what we can grab our hands on, in the US, with meets and audio festivals that happen quite frequently, put's us out of the picture.


 
  You are getting close to spot on here. If you take the HD800 as an example, any review which does not mention it's pairing as a huge factor in SQ is simply misleading. A consumer buying one and expecting stellar performance from a different amp is likely to be very disappointed. I suspect the Abyss will be in the same class and be very sensitive to amping, which is why there is the wide spectrum of review results now seen. This is compounded by "summit fi" amps having a very wide spectrum of performance. An amp that may make 800's really shine may well make LCD3's sound mediocre and vice versa.


----------



## scolaiw

Well I did touch on this briefly anyway with the pairing of the Abyss and Burson. Which was to say it was severely underpowered and underwhelming. If anything, the HD 800 is easier to pair, with a reasonably powered tube amp, you would probably get 90% out of the HD 800. For the Abyss, I felt that there was a semi proportional relationship between amp power and the sound quality of the Abyss. So with the Burson it was pretty crap. 

Having said that, I think it's unfair to say a ToTL headphones must be reviewed with budget amps. Not only are you defeating the purpose of the headphones (if anything, you are reviewing the amp and not the headphone) but you also miss the single key point of headphones such as the Abyss and Sr-009: they are targeted at the people with money to spend. 

THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL THE ABYSS IS WORTH $5000. Even factoring in all the extras and the research & development. The profit margin is huge. Yet people still buy them. Thus, it comes as no surprise that someone willing to spend $5000 on a pair of headphones is willing to spend at least $2000+ on an amp (if not more). To think that someone would pay $5000 on a pair of headphones and cheap out on the amp is ridiculous. So you expect someone with an Sr-009 to not amp it with a ToTL electrostatic amp? Absurd!

There are exceptions, such as the LCD 3 and HD 800 where you can fair much better with cheap amps, and in those cases, you can find tonnes of reviews where cheaper amps are included as well as of course user reviews.


----------



## laon

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> IMO it'd be difficult and unfair for the TOTL headphones to be reviewed with low-mid end DAC & Amps
> 
> In extreme example, it's like reviewing HE-6 using dacport LX & schiit asgard, and the review is just going to say that it doesn't worth the price difference, you'd better just buy ATH-M50 or max HD650
> 
> ...


 

 In short you're saying that people with who doesn't have summit end source and amp should forget about Abyss altogether. Well that certainly make it easier.


----------



## etherlite

Quote: 





laon said:


> In short you're saying that people with who doesn't have summit end source and amp should forget about Abyss altogether. Well that certainly make it easier.


 
  Rudely speaking, yes. Tbh I'm not even sure my lampizator lv4 and Liquid Fire are good enough for the abyss
   
  Politely speaking: if you want Abyss, be prepared to buy summit end source & amp as well. 5000$ is NOT the total price you have to pay in order to get the most of the abyss


----------



## laon

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> Rudely speaking, yes. Tbh I'm not even sure my lampizator lv4 and Liquid Fire are good enough for the abyss
> 
> Politely speaking: if you want Abyss, be prepared to buy summit end source & amp as well. 5000$ is NOT the total price you have to pay in order to get the most of the abyss


 

 Heh then I guess I can safely forget this cans as I probably will never shell out 15K for the whole thing, though even if I do I sincerely doubt that I'd want this bear trap looking thing.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> IMO it'd be difficult and unfair for the TOTL headphones to be reviewed with low-mid end DAC & Amps
> 
> In extreme example, it's like reviewing HE-6 using dacport LX & schiit asgard, and the review is just going to say that it doesn't worth the price difference, you'd better just buy ATH-M50 or max HD650
> 
> ...


 
  Agreed completely. Using sub-par gear on top flight headphones is no real way to really hear what the headphones can do. Plain and simple....you bottle neck these headphones and you are exactly not hearing what they're about. Now run them on a neutral DAC and wire-with-gain GS-X, all you hear is the recording and transducers on the headphones (mostly anyway).
   
  I do agree that trying lower grade gear (amps/dacs/sources) with these types of headphones can be very helpful too to potential buyers. Take the HD800s, if you're using entry level upstream gear and have no plans to upgrade, then the HD800s (or LCD-3s) would be money wasted IMO. Now the LCD-2s or D7000s sound great out of almost anything...so they might be a better choice in that example.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> .....


 
  I don't know about A2A bringing in the herd of Headamp products. And I doubt maus will just let me borrow his ZDSE for a TOTL comparison. lol
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *etherlite* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Tbh I'm not even sure my lampizator lv4 and Liquid Fire are good enough for the abyss


 
  Having the privilege of hearing the L4, I reckon it is one of the best DAC's around. I''m sure the L4 will be extremely plenty for the Abyss but you'd need to match the sound between DAC/Amp and the AB's sound sig. The only thing that I can think of that will hinder the performance of the L4 is crap amplification because having it heard it on a speaker setup thanks to a few on SN, the only contender sound-wise I can think is the 380D.


----------



## preproman

There's been a lot of folks over in DIY audio describing the Lampizator DACs as jokes.  Saying the Quanghao Dac End is a much better DAC by a very large margin.


----------



## Blackmore

Guys, what system / amp have to be used to hear HD800 neutrality?
   
  THX
   
   
  Quote: 





duckman said:


> I've had a fair amount of experience with the LCD3 out of a number of good amps, and the Abyss - in a half hour demo - was pretty easily my favourite in terms of its bass. It was more balanced/less emphasised, and yet hit harder and with greater clarity.
> 
> In defence of the LCD3, I think it has a sweeter (yet less detailed) midrange. I love its musicality.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





defqon said:


> 30 minutes worth of demo time is not enough. The brain works in wonderful ways and one of them is the influence of new products where you automatically think newer is better and the the way your brain wants to believe there is a massive difference. This placebo wears off when you have compared two products extensibly to death with more than just 30 minutes demo time.
> 
> From what I've read so far the LCD3 and Abyss are two differebt sounding headphones. The LCD3 are more fun, liquidy and forgiving sounding. What it seems is that the* Abyss is targetting neutrality such as the HD800's *or any of the upper Stax for that matter.
> 
> I will give these an audition sometime in the near future when I have time to go to Kew.


----------



## etherlite

Quote: 





defqon said:


> I don't know about A2A bringing in the herd of Headamp products. And I doubt maus will just let me borrow his ZDSE for a TOTL comparison. lol
> 
> Having the privilege of hearing the L4, I reckon it is one of the best DAC's around. I''m sure the L4 will be extremely plenty for the Abyss but you'd need to match the sound between DAC/Amp and the AB's sound sig. The only thing that I can think of that will hinder the performance of the L4 is crap amplification because having it heard it on a speaker setup thanks to a few on SN, the only contender sound-wise I can think is the 380D.


 
  That's the rumor I've heard from a reliable source
   
  Maus did bring the ZDSE and RWA isabelinna to compare it to my LF before, maybe you need to offer something he's interested as well lol
   
  That's why I bought the L4 as my end game setup, but I haven't got the chance to pair it with abyss, so I'd rather not say.


preproman said:


> There's been a lot of folks over in DIY audio describing the Lampizator DACs as jokes.  Saying the Quanghao Dac End is a much better DAC by a very large margin.


 

  Again, I haven't heard of that quanghao, and I hate people who bashes other rigs that they haven't even got a listen to, so I'd rather not say.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> Rudely speaking, yes. Tbh I'm not even sure my lampizator lv4 and Liquid Fire are good enough for the abyss
> 
> Politely speaking: if you want Abyss, be prepared to buy summit end source & amp as well. 5000$ is NOT the total price you have to pay in order to get the most of the abyss


 

 Now were getting somewhere. The reality of the actual buy in is  significantly more than the HF purchase price. So when you start looking at total cost other HF amp combos start looking mighty appealing.
   
  On the bright side KSA 50's can be had cheap these days


----------



## DefQon

Although discontinued I think the KSA50's are little too powerful for any ortho on the market atm.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Although discontinued I think the KSA50's are little too powerful for any ortho on the market atm.


 
   
  They were only a 50 watter so that's not outside the scope of a speaker amp for hard to drive headphones. Using an attenuator for a pre may just result in the most transparent drive train ever.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





hutnicks said:


> They were only a 50 watter so that's not outside the scope of a speaker amp for hard to drive headphones. Using an attenuator for a pre may just result in the most transparent drive train ever.


 
  Assuming the MK2's were 100watts each.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





preproman said:


> There's been a lot of folks over in DIY audio describing the Lampizator DACs as jokes.  Saying the Quanghao Dac End is a much better DAC by a very large margin.


 
  They are the same people who say the $30k MSB DAC is a engineering failure. Get where I'm heading now?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





defqon said:


> They are the same people who say the $30k MSB DAC is a engineering failure. Get where I'm heading now?


 
   
   
  Not sure if they're the same people.  But I see where you going...


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Assuming the MK2's were 100watts each.


 
   
  No that would be the KSA 100.
   
   
  Hmmm. Circuit boards are readily available(for the 50). If you could do an S model and re bias down to about 25 watts that might just be the killer of all times.


----------



## dBel84

Probably the same people saying that a cable manufacturer cannot make a totl headphone .


----------



## gikigill

After reading this thread, I have finally decided to have a listen at A2A. Beating the SR009 is a huge task though and I have only heard them from a Stax amp. Bear in mind that the SR007 is my favourite Stax of all time so need to adjust for bias too.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





hutnicks said:


> No that would be the KSA 100.
> 
> 
> Hmmm. Circuit boards are readily available(for the 50). If you could do an S model and re bias down to about 25 watts that might just be the killer of all times.


 
  Is this a group buy on diyaudio? With updated BOM list etc?


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Is this a group buy on diyaudio? With updated BOM list etc?


 

 Twas an older thread I think.Ah here it is.
   
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/109618-krell-ksa-5-a-7.html#post3532241
   
  Toms audio out of HK had a board as well as a kit at one time also.


----------



## DefQon

Nice will check it out.


----------



## gavtorn

Quote: 





defqon said:


> They are the same people who say the $30k MSB DAC is a engineering failure. Get where I'm heading now?


 
  I have just done a heap of DAC auditions including MSB analog and Lampi level 4. They are both really good but very different approaches to presenting music.
   
  So I can see why some people like the MSB and vice versa.
   
  Make sure you have a listen with your own ears


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





gavtorn said:


> So I can see why some people like the MSB and vice versa.


 
  Precisely. No matter what it is and what hobby it is, there are always going to be people that diss and dislike other products either just for the hell of it, sound preference or fanboyism. Obviously I haven't heard the $30k MSB dac but I have played around with there older stuff and I quite like it but it ain't no killer.


----------



## etherlite

Quote: 





gavtorn said:


> I have just done a heap of DAC auditions including MSB analog and Lampi level 4. They are both really good but very different approaches to presenting music.
> 
> So I can see why some people like the MSB and vice versa.
> 
> Make sure you have a listen with your own ears


 
  which one did you get in the end?


----------



## gavtorn

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Precisely. No matter what it is and what hobby it is, there are always going to be people that diss and dislike other products either just for the hell of it, sound preference or fanboyism. Obviously I haven't heard the $30k MSB dac but I have played around with there older stuff and I quite like it but it ain't no killer.


 
   
  It will be interesting to read your impressions of the Abyss.  Get to the CBD and jump on the 48 tram down to A2A... 
   
  I want to hear them with a better DAC than the NAD they were using at the time - but I know they are not for me.  I would love to have the bass  of the abyss stuffed inside an audeze can tho!


----------



## DefQon

Eww, trams. Would drive down there or get a lift to Kew than tram it from there.


----------



## gavtorn

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Eww, trams. Would drive down there or get a lift to Kew than tram it from there.


 
  I think in that case the abyss is the perfect headphone for you.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





gavtorn said:


> I think in that case the abyss is the perfect headphone for you.


 
  Maybe once I hear it and if it was priced at an acceptable price figure of $2000. I'm a fully stat convert now with a few low-mid-fi dynamics in my stable.


----------



## dBel84

SG on the AB1266   The Audiophiliac : Abyss AB-1266 headphones run $5,495, but they're worth it


----------



## Gorillaz

another not hyped review from the Audiophilac


----------



## grokit

The Dodge Viper of headphones, thought it would be a Tesla lol


----------



## gikigill

I find it really hard to believe that an ortho driver can match the SR009. Will be auditioning them shortly and let's see.


----------



## gikigill

Ortho bass is very good usually but the remainder of the spectrum not so much. The overall liquid delivery of a stat can be hard to match.


----------



## wuwhere

I like planar magnetics, unlike electro stats that requires very special amps.


----------



## 3X0

defqon said:


> There's your friends problem.
> 
> On the other hand, when has SG's reviews been consistently reliable?



Yup. Ridiculous.

What's become exceedingly clear is that we have these being compared to underserved SR009s, and that we need to hear the two back to back personally to form meaningful impressions.


----------



## gikigill

A full on review with matching DAC, BHSE for the STAX and equivalent for the Abyss would be a good way to go.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> Yup. Ridiculous.
> 
> What's become exceedingly clear is that we have these being compared to underserved SR009s, and that we need to hear the two back to back personally to form meaningful impressions.


 
  Yeah what strikes me about the so far impressions is whether or not these are compared against the 009's for neutrality. Of course these is no such thing as the best headphone, a headphone pleasing to all, but in terms of musical and hi-fidelity the more neutral a headphone/speaker is the better it ranks amongst it's competition, deserving it's own status. Until Tyll can get measurements out for these I will reserve further comments to myself, sure we like coloured aspects of sound sometimes but imfho a BHSE + 009 is very hard to beat in terms of neutrality.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Do you not believe the BHSE can have a sound of its own, or many different sounds depending on how it's tube'd; or cabled?


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





joe skubinski said:


> Do you not believe the BHSE can have a sound of its own, or many different sounds depending on how it's tube'd; or cabled?


 
  The BHSE has been regarded as an amp "wire with a gain". KG himself designed them to be as neutral as possible with plenty of power to boot so the transducers being driven does not lack finesse in areas of sound. Given the hybrid design of the BHSE, the amp is insensitive to tube rolling as compared to say the Woo Audio amp's. Of course at the end of the day everybody's ears are different, any bias, placebo can be influential to what some user's swear by the subtle differences in it.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Do you own one of these with the 009's, or are you simply repeating what others have said?


----------



## DefQon

I was close to getting my BHSE few months back to pair with my Omega but no I don't personally own one myself but I have heard the infamous 009 and BHSE combo not too long ago though only briefly less than an hour. Although the 009 is pretty damn good I find it to be not my cup of tea it's brightness sort of reminds me of my stock CD950. I will be going the BHSE route in the future but right now I'm just focusing on collecting the vintage Stax models before price hikes up again.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

That explains it all...


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





joe skubinski said:


> That explains it all, thanks.


 
  To be honest with you, from a consumer perspective, you would've had more success with these if they were priced less than the asking price. Not every so called audiophile here have trees that grow money, even for those that do, they are quite conservative to how they spend it, and then there is the small group of people that don't care because they simply have too much money/ use the headphones once and never touch it again.
   
  Yes there are perspectives from your business side where new technology, R&D, equipment, effort, time, cost, labor not being cheap to develop these, but maybe if there were an option giving the consumer a mind of peace to use there own supplied cables without spending $5.5k for the complete package, maybe even an entry/basic product along with the flagship to give people a taste of what your companies headphones are capable of would of been beneficial as well.
   
  You can still achieve all this without sacrifacing too much, heck a good example is Hifiman. If you eat in small bites, you can enjoy the food even more, if you take one massive bite and swallow it down, you're not enjoying the food and getting no benefit out it. 
   
  My 2c.


----------



## etherlite

Agree, although I'm blown by the sound it produced, the price is way too steep for me.
   
  I have paid more than 5k$ for my DAC, and I do think that it worth every cents I paid, but I don't feel a similar value from the abyss
   
  It's undoubtedly a very good headphone, but the wow-factor I've heard is not complimenting the price.


----------



## thenorwegian

Common sense will not allow me to buy this headphone after having looked at what else 5495 USD gets me.


----------



## Blackmore

Joe, are you planning to build an amp for Abyss to? Not that I am going to buy, just interested.
   
  THX
  Quote: 





joe skubinski said:


> Do you not believe the BHSE can have a sound of its own, or many different sounds depending on how it's tube'd; or cabled?


----------



## thegrobe

defqon said:


> To be honest with you, from a consumer perspective, you would've had more success with these if they were priced less than the asking price. Not every so called audiophile here have trees that grow money, even for those that do, they are quite conservative to how they spend it, and then there is the small group of people that don't care because they simply have too much money/ use the headphones once and never touch it again.
> 
> Yes there are perspectives from your business side where new technology, R&D, equipment, effort, time, cost, labor not being cheap to develop these, but maybe if there were an option giving the consumer a mind of peace to use there own supplied cables without spending $5.5k for the complete package, maybe even an entry/basic product along with the flagship to give people a taste of what your companies headphones are capable of would of been beneficial as well.
> 
> ...




I have been thinking the same thing as well. If there was another model that shared the same driver technology, same SQ, etc...but a less “exclusive" package without all the cables, bags, and such. And also a more hmmmm..how do I say this..more "down to earth" design. Something simple - maybe less trips through the anodizing bath. Hee hee. Sorry. Just not a big fan of the "death metal" design.

I know it would cut into the sales of the top model, having a lower prices variant that sounds the same, but if the SQ is really that good, and were priced right they would fly out the factory. You couldn't build enough. 

I am also curious how these perform using DAC's and amps that are a bit "lower down the food chain" than the summit grade equipment that has been mentioned. Say, a 1K DAC, and 1K amp. Not everyone can spend 5-10 grand on a DAC/AMP.

Just my 2¢


----------



## gjc11028

Another question for Joe: will you be offering other adapters, for example for a 4-pin xlr. I am interested and I might buy.

Thanks


----------



## grokit

I think the problem here is the air of exclusivity surrounding an upstart effort from a cable company.
   
  This kind of elitism can be tolerated with the SR-009 as there is an entire legacy of excellent Stax headphones to build upon.
   
  But the Abyss has no such legacy aside from possibly its cables, which represent what, 25% of the price?
   
  What legacy is the rest of this product built upon.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

gjc11028 said:


> Another question for Joe: will you be offering other adapters, for example for a 4-pin xlr. I am interested and I might buy.
> 
> Thanks




They come with both 1/4" and 4 pin XLR Y-adaptor cables. Just updated the website to reflect this. Thanks...


----------



## gjc11028

joe skubinski said:


> They come with both 1/4" and 4 pin XLR Y-adaptor cables. Just updated the website to reflect this. Thanks...



Thanks


----------



## DefQon

They specialise in cables so of course they going to give you an adaptor as well.


----------



## stacker45

Quote: 





defqon said:


> The BHSE has been regarded as an amp "wire with a gain". KG himself designed them to be as neutral as possible with plenty of power to boot so the transducers being driven does not lack finesse in areas of sound. Given the hybrid design of the BHSE, the amp is insensitive to tube rolling as compared to say the Woo Audio amp's. Of course at the end of the day everybody's ears are different, any bias, placebo can be influential to what some user's swear by the subtle differences in it.


 
   
  Since ther is no such thing as an amp that's ''a wire with gain'', i'm going to side with Joe on this one, and assume that even the BHSE as it's own sound signature.
   
  That being said, i believe that headphones, or speakers, have a lot more infuence on a sound system, than an amps has. i'm pretty sure that in a blind test, people would have a lot less difficulty noticing the change if we were swaping say, a pair of HD-800 for some RS1i, that they would if we were swapping amp A for amp B.
   
  And finnaly, let's not forget that Feruccio lamborghini went straight from making farm equipement, to high end sports cars. And for those who are not into cars, Joseph Grado went from making turntable cartridges, to high end headphones. So as far as i'm concerned, i don't care if JPS was making lawn mowers before, as long as they're headphones sound amazing, that's what counts.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





stacker45 said:


> And finnaly, let's not forget that Feruccio lamborghini went straight from making farm equipement, to high end sports cars. And for those who are not into cars, Joseph Grado went from making turntable cartridges, to high end headphones. So as far as i'm concerned, i don't care if JPS was making lawn mowers before, as long as they're headphones sound amazing, that's what counts.


 
   
  There's quite a few of that in audio. Daniel and Rondi D'Agostino of Krell and Jason Bloom and Leo Spiegel of Apogee Acoustics. They didn't have any history making amps (Krell) nor speakers (Apogee). Yet they became successful.


----------



## stefzulj

I had the rare opportunity of trying out the Abyss AB1266 and I must say it was an absolute privilege. Not being experienced with such high-end phones I won't talk too much on the sound, but scolaiw's impression/review sums it up perfect I believe. Was paired with a Rega DAC and Cavalli Liquid Glass (not a set up for the faint hearted). What got me the most was the instrument separation and soundstage. It was just pure audio bliss, closest thing I'll probably ever hear to being in the actual studio with the artist. The build quality and comfort were also top notch.

 I enjoyed the sound of the Abyss AB1266 more than that of the LCD-3 and the Ultrasone Edition 10, although I marginally preferred the more powerful and deeper bass aspect of the LCD-3. Whether or not it's worth the extra 3K is for you to decide, but there is definitely a noticeable SQ difference here. If money is no issue, then Abyss every day of the week!


----------



## etherlite

I want to try it with lampi L4 & LG, can we arrange a micro meet around early august? Perhaps defqon can bring a lampi?


----------



## jsgraha

etherlite said:


> I want to try it with lampi L4 & LG, can we arrange a micro meet around early august? Perhaps defqon can bring a lampi?




No need to try, LG is a worth upgrade over LF  
... (sorry, can't resist to tempt you)


----------



## etherlite

Quote: 





jsgraha said:


> No need to try, LG is a worth upgrade over LF
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm having doubts over the rega DAC, I'm pretty sure LG is good enough


----------



## jsgraha

etherlite said:


> I'm having doubts over the rega DAC, I'm pretty sure LG is good enough




If Rega Dac was feed by ap2 or cd transport, it's quite decent. But if only use usb cable, well... I have my doubt as well.


----------



## spritzer

Quote: 





stacker45 said:


> Since ther is no such thing as an amp that's ''a wire with gain'', i'm going to side with Joe on this one, and assume that even the BHSE as it's own sound signature.


 
   
  Of course there are amps that impose very little of their own signature on the signal they amplify.  You could easily call them "wire with gain" as by definition even a short length of wire has an effect on the electricity it passes how ever subtle it may be.  Here I'm talking about Ohm's law, inductance and actual tangible things, not audiophile BS "This cable makes or breaks my system".


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





gikigill said:


> I find it really hard to believe that an ortho driver can match the SR009. Will be auditioning them shortly and let's see.


 
   
  The key question is what aspects or characteristics (a lot of higher end audio is give and take) and on what setup. I've only heard the AB-1266 from a LG and mediocre Mytek (an older PCM model, not the Stereo DSD, which I think is inferior sounding in one critical aspect) and I think the AB-1266 has the potential to be better than the SR009 overall (at least for me). The AB-1266 was already better in some ways: flatter/smoother FR, more balls in the bass. I don't think the AB-1266 will beat the SR009's effortlessness or its ability to "get out of the way", but it sure came close - this taking into account I haven't been able to futz around with components / tweaks as I have with the SR009. My main complaints with the SR009 were that it had too much of that STAX ethereal quality, and with some material sounded wonky in the mids, and lacked low (not mid) bass impact - not to be confused with bass volume.
   
  Quote: 





defqon said:


> Yeah what strikes me about the so far impressions is whether or not these are compared against the 009's for neutrality. Of course these is no such thing as the best headphone, a headphone pleasing to all, but in terms of musical and hi-fidelity the more neutral a headphone/speaker is the better it ranks amongst it's competition, deserving it's own status. Until Tyll can get measurements out for these I will reserve further comments to myself, sure we like coloured aspects of sound sometimes but imfho a BHSE + 009 is very hard to beat in terms of neutrality.


 
   
  IMO, the BHSE+009 is rather etched and bright sounding to me with most DACs (I much prefer the BHSE with the 007mk1, and consider that combo to be more neutral, and so do many others if you ask around.) The Mytek/ACLG/AB-1266 setup I heard was much more neutral. 
   
  Quote: 





defqon said:


> The BHSE has been regarded as an amp "wire with a gain". KG himself designed them to be as neutral as possible with plenty of power to boot so the transducers being driven does not lack finesse in areas of sound. Given the hybrid design of the BHSE, the amp is insensitive to tube rolling as compared to say the Woo Audio amp's. Of course at the end of the day everybody's ears are different, any bias, placebo can be influential to what some user's swear by the subtle differences in it.


 
   
  I wouldn't say the BHSE is insensitive to tube rolling. Heck, the even the T2DIY was very sensitive to tube rolling. At least to my ears. Of course this may be placebo and everyone is free to believe or experience what they wish. For such balls-to-the-walls designs, it's critical to get the best tubes. BTW, there's no such thing as "wire with gain." The BHSE has its own sound. As does the T2DIY. As does the KGSS. As does the LL. As does the LL2. As does the Electra. (All the amps mentioned I've owned or heard on numerous occasions or have been able to borrow them in my own home. And I consider them all at least pretty good.)


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





purrin said:


> The key question is what aspects or characteristics (a lot of higher end audio is give and take) and on what setup. I've only heard the AB-1266 from a LG and mediocre Mytek (an older PCM model, not the Stereo DSD, which I think is inferior sounding.) and I think it has the potential to be better than the SR009 overall (at least for me). The AB-1266 was already better in some ways: flatter/smoother FR, more balls in the bass. I don't think the AB-1266 will beat the SR009's effortlessness or its ability to "get out of the way", but it sure came close - this taking into account I haven't been able to futz around with components / tweaks as I have with the SR009. My main complaints with the SR009 were that it had too much of that STAX ethereal quality, and with some material sounded wonky in the mids, and lacked low (not mid) bass impact - not to be confused with bass volume.


 
  Thanks for clearing that up. There has been a lot of distillation down to the "Better than the 009" period, without the context added.
   
  Initial reviews are a good starting point, however I still maintain that this beast needs to show it's legs with a wide selection of setups. When you are considering a purchase at this level of play it would be a half measure to not look at different driving solutions for this beast.
   
  Personally I would like to see if "The Wire" amp over on DIY could push these . I'd also like to hear them driven by a KSA50 as it is a sig I know and trust implicitly.
   
   
   
  Unless you just want to hang it on the wall and call it Art.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





hutnicks said:


> Initial reviews are a good starting point, however I still maintain that this beast needs to show it's legs with a wide selection of setups. When you are considering a purchase at this level of play it would be a half measure to not look at different driving solutions for this beast.


 
   
  Agreed. I liked what I heard, but at the asking price, I wouldn't commit unless I was totally 100% sure - meaning I probably wouldn't rely on anyone else's impressions unless I trust they know what I like. And that's like three people in the universe.

 In most cases, high-end audio is not an investment with returns. It's more like dollar cost averaging Enron stock to zero.


----------



## gikigill

The effortless playback by the Stax is what I feel won't be surpassed by the orthos. That's the term I was searching for purrin and why I like Stax.


----------



## purrin

^ Yeah. It's such a subtle indescribable quality (which transcends tonal balance / FR) of the SR-Omega/007/009 where after a few hours, we are like "wow".


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





purrin said:


> Agreed. I liked what I heard, but at the asking price, I wouldn't commit unless I was totally 100% sure - meaning I probably wouldn't rely on anyone else's impressions unless I trust they know what I like. And that's like three people in the universe.
> 
> In most cases, high-end audio is not an investment with returns. *It's more like dollar cost averaging Enron stock to zero.*


 





 Every nation has it's own Bre-X, doesn't it?   The only way to make a small fortune indulging in HEA is to start with a large one.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





purrin said:


> IMO, the BHSE+009 is rather etched and bright sounding to me with most DACs (I much prefer the BHSE with the 007mk1, and consider that combo to be more neutral, and so do many others if you ask around.) The Mytek/ACLG/AB-1266 setup I heard was much more neutral.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't say the BHSE is insensitive to tube rolling. Heck, the even the T2DIY was very sensitive to tube rolling. At least to my ears. Of course this may be placebo and everyone is free to believe or experience what they wish. For such balls-to-the-walls designs, it's critical to get the best tubes. BTW, there's no such thing as "wire with gain." The BHSE has its own sound. As does the T2DIY. As does the KGSS. As does the LL. As does the LL2. As does the Electra. (All the amps mentioned I've owned or heard on numerous occasions or have been able to borrow them in my own home. And I consider them all at least pretty good.)


 
  1. Yeah I'll agree with you on that one, I found the 009 a tad bit bright for my taste as well. Although the MK1's remain the first Stax I ever listened to that was so long ago so I couldn't quite put it into the same equation as the 009's I briefly heard (which I was impressed on first listen), so unless I had the 007mk1, BHSE, 009 all at the same time on the same table, then it's a different story. Btw ACLG = CA LG? typo I'm assuming :S.
   
  2. From very limited experience with the BHSE, I couldn't tell much difference between the few tubes we rolled compared to the stock JJ's that was being used (at least for me, but the limited brief audition could attribute to this as a factor as well). I wasn't implying that the BHSE is completely insensitive to tube rolling but what I was saying that compared to what general people think tube rolling is, adding the extra layer of warm, liquidy sounding distortion on top of the sound, amplifiers that have a greater affect from tube rolling, I did not find this to be the case with the  BHSE, as it goes back to the example I gave with the Woo stuff. But yes every amp has a characteristic of it's own. As with wire-with-a gain, this is just a coming from the design perspective of the amp and what Tyll has referred to it as which other people have referred him to refer the amp to it as. In other words, it's damn neutral. lol
   
  I've got KGSS boards coming my way from Johnmclean so I should have a offboad KGSSHV built in a few months time, given how things work out with employment here, I may land myself an MK1/BHSE or 009/BHSE so I can raid A2A and do a proper comparison. Maybe even try the LL with my 009's and see how well Alex's amps really are.


----------



## livewire

Is this the new Stax thread?
  Poor major bling planars aint gettin no respect round here.


----------



## DefQon

Major suckage on the price and looks, but more the former.


----------



## gikigill

Planars are stepping in Stax territory, they should bring their A game. 
No mercy, no prisoners is my view as a Stax and an HE6 owner.


----------



## gavtorn

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> I want to try it with lampi L4 & LG, can we arrange a micro meet around early august? Perhaps defqon can bring a lampi?


 
   
  Are you bringing your kit with you when you come back to Melbourne for your graduation?


----------



## gavtorn

Quote: 





jsgraha said:


> If Rega Dac was feed by ap2 or cd transport, it's quite decent. But if only use usb cable, well... I have my doubt as well.


 
  Seriously tho, we need to hear the Abyss with a DAC that's on the same quality level with the LG...


----------



## Duckman

Quote: 





gavtorn said:


> Seriously tho, we need to hear the Abyss with a DAC that's on the same quality level with the LG...


 

  That'd be your 777, Gav


----------



## etherlite

Quote: 





gavtorn said:


> Are you bringing your kit with you when you come back to Melbourne for your graduation?


 
  lol, no, that's why I'm asking him to bring lampi


----------



## jsgraha

duckman said:


> That'd be your 777, Gav




+1 ... =)


----------



## gavtorn

Quote: 





jsgraha said:


> +1 ... =)


 
  It's too heavy for me to cart to Kew.  We need to get the Abyss to my place for a test with the Stratus


----------



## etherlite

Quote: 





gavtorn said:


> It's too heavy for me to cart to Kew.  We need to get the Abyss to my place for a test with the Stratus


 
  buy one then


----------



## gavtorn

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> buy one then


 
  Nah - They're not for me.  Would be great to hear em on the stratus tho..
   
  I still prefer the LCD-3, although if the LCD 4 has the same bass as the Abyss (with everything else the same as the LCD-3) I will buy it asap!


----------



## Happy Camper

I would love to hear them on a refined speaker amp. Like say, the Simaudio Moon Evolution I6&700. The soundstage imaging is just incredible on the HE-6. Best I've heard on a headphone. If the Abyss can deliver as claimed, it would be an end game rig. It would also set you back about what an Orpheus rig would run. 

Have we witnessed the best being bested with a planar? Subjectively speaking of course. I understand the measurements aren't as impressive as their price but it's all about the music, not a test bench.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





happy camper said:


> I would love to hear them on a refined speaker amp. Like say, the Simaudio Moon Evolution I6&700. The soundstage imaging is just incredible on the HE-6. Best I've heard on a headphone. If the Abyss can deliver as claimed, it would be an end game rig. It would also set you back about what an Orpheus rig would run.
> 
> Have we witnessed the best being bested with a planar? Subjectively speaking of course. I understand the measurements aren't as impressive as their price but it's all about the music, not a test bench.


 
  That would be interesting!
   
  Joe -- would you come to the Capital Audio Show in DC at the end of July! I think it is the last weekend of the month.


----------



## preproman

I would love for the Abyss to be there.  I want to do a direct comparison with the Abyss, LCD-3, and my pair of HE-6 on a really good high quility speaker amp.


----------



## DefQon

How's the 3's on your FW?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





defqon said:


> How's the 3's on your FW?


 
  Pretty good.  But everytime I turn that space heater on.  I put the 6s on them..


----------



## DefQon

Nice.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

My review is up:   http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones
   
  I'm wondering if other have heard the noise confusing the treble that I did?


----------



## jsgraha

tyll hertsens said:


> My review is up:   http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if other have heard the noise confusing the treble that I did?




Very nice review, Tyll, thanks...
Yes, I did hear it when compare it with Hd800 and lcd3 from the same setup.
But, IMO it didn't discount the fact that it's really very good HP. Killer bass and speaker like presentation.
On other note, I didn't like it out of Burson Soloist though (similar to Conductor), but like it out of Cavalli LG and Mjolnir.


----------



## dukeskd

Great job Tyll, awesome review. Is the treble brighter than the HD800s?


----------



## alvin sawdust

Nice review. So far then it looks like they are not worth the asking price.


----------



## n3rdling

They'll be at the large LA meet on Saturday, so expect more impressions this weekend.


----------



## DefQon

And n3rdling is going to sell off his HE90 for an Abyss.


----------



## madbull

I wouldn't ever pay this price even if they are better than the HE-6, which are my favorite planars and I quite enjoy.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Very interested in hearing them


----------



## Darkbeat

tyll hertsens said:


> My review is up:   http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones
> 
> I'm wondering if other have heard the noise confusing the treble that I did?



 
 Thanks Tyll, some good stuff here. Your opinion seems surprisingly positive overall, though the treble issues you report are enough to make me balk given the exorbitant pricing. Also, I must say these have easily the most underwhelming measurements I've witnessed in a headphone over $1k. Distortion, particularly in the upper frequencies, is outright appauling. The frequency response itself doesn't even seem to fit with some user impressions, ie, the bass appears to be considerably rolled off and the midrange dip is so excessive it would be unacceptable on a headphone 1/10th it's price. Square wave plots would indicate the headphone only competes with the likes of the LCD-2 or HE-500, never mind their big brothers. With the ability to buy the Stax SR-009s brand new for $2k less (or even less again for the 007), I really don't see why anyone would feel compelled to choose these instead.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





n3rdling said:


> They'll be at the large LA meet on Saturday, so expect more impressions this weekend.


 
  Looking forward to more impressions. I think we'll get to the truth eventually.


----------



## Operakid

Let's hope the headphone scene does not follow in the footsteps of high end audio where equipment gets interest solely due to shocking pricing; where folks assume new physics is being discovered every day due the the over the top claims of non-science "designers" in their tiny boutique companies; where lies and bogus claims trump real, quality design; where great reviews based on advertising in the magazine doing the review sway unwitting consumers (who later refuse to admit they've been had); where general deception and profit mongering rule the kingdom.
   
  The headphone world is so much more about the music than the luxury-goods market which high end audio has become.  These headphones remind me more of the high end audio scene where pricing is seemingly more based on dart-board sessions than product design quality or cost to manufacture.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





operakid said:


> Let's hope the headphone scene does not follow in the footsteps of high end audio where equipment gets interest solely due to shocking pricing; where folks assume new physics is being discovered every day due the the over the top claims of non-science "designers" in their tiny boutique companies; where lies and bogus claims trump real, quality design; where great reviews based on advertising in the magazine doing the review sway unwitting consumers (who later refuse to admit they've been had); where general deception and profit mongering rule the kingdom.
> 
> The headphone world is so much more about the music than the luxury-goods market which high end audio has become.  These headphones remind me more of the high end audio scene where pricing is seemingly more based on dart-board sessions than product design quality or cost to manufacture.


 
   
  The headphone scene WILL follow high-end audio... I mean, aren't headphones like these high-end audio? Like the LCD-3 and its $2000 price tag versus the LCD-2 and its $1000 price tag? (Dare I say Orpheus?)
   
  The thing is you're getting quality for your money. High-end audio needs to be paired with equipment that will make it shine, and maybe even the proper room. Mismatching them can lead to hell on your equipment (and not to mention wallet). Though sometimes "quality" for someone may mean the complete opposite for another (my friend and I debating on LCD3 vs HD800 comes to mind). Its all a matter of preference
   
  This is why we have these impressions and reviews, so we decide for ourselves if this investment will be worth it. If someone is uncomfortable about spending a lot on audio equipment, nothing's stopping him/her from considering other options! And hell, a lot of people are content with their gear, no matter how much or how little they spend on it. At least we have the freedom to study and compare, look at impressions and find what's right for us... eventually we find that sweet spot that will make you happy.
   
  What I'm happy about with the Abyss 'phones is that we have another addition to the Planar Magnetic market. Another choice has been added, just like the high-end audio market. It just gives us more to love and more to hate and more to dream about. The price may be steep but there's someone out there craving that exact sound and willing to work for that and get it. And if we aren't after that sound... then we can find something else to whet our appetite...
   
  Thus the hunger for "that sound" continues.


----------



## gikigill

Its entirely upto us to guide the headphone market. We ultimately decide the price of headphones, the manufacturer just sets it.
   
  If the product doesn't match expectations and its price tag, don't buy it and send a message by keeping your wallet folded.
   
  If tomorrow I hear everyone complaining about high prices, they need to go see a mirror for the person responsible.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





gikigill said:


> Its entirely upto us to guide the headphone market*. We ultimately decide the price of headphones,* the manufacturer just sets it.
> 
> If the product doesn't match expectations and its price tag, don't buy it and send a message by keeping your wallet folded.
> 
> If tomorrow I hear everyone complaining about high prices, they need to go see a mirror for the person responsible.


 
  And just how did "we" decide the price of these headphones, may I ask?


----------



## DefQon

If it comes with a quarter pounder meal with large fries and a large coke.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





darkbeat said:


> Thanks Tyll, some good stuff here.Your opinion seems surprisingly positive overall, though the treble issues you report are enough to make me balk given the exorbitant pricing. Also, I must say these have easily the most underwhelming measurements I've witnessed in a headphone over $1k. Distortion, particularly in the upper frequencies, is outright appauling. The frequency response itself doesn't even seem to fit with some user impressions, ie, the bass appears to be considerably rolled off and the midrange dip is so excessive it would be unacceptable on a headphone 1/10th it's price. *Square wave plots would indicate the headphone only competes with the likes of the LCD-2 or HE-500*, never mind their big brothers.With the ability to buy the Stax SR-009s brand new for $2k less (or even less again for the 007), I really don't see why anyone would feel compelled to choose these instead.


 
   
  Actually the LCD-2's square wave plots destroy the Abyss' measurements. Not close...and for a headphone that costs $4500 more?


----------



## jerg

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Actually the LCD-2's square wave plots destroy the Abyss' measurements. Not close...and for a headphone that costs $4500 more?


 
  Squarewaves wise, the Abyss looks almost exactly like Hifiman HE400 actually. Take a look.
   
  http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/JPSLabsAbyssAB1266.pdf
   
  http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE400.pdf


----------



## gikigill

If we refuse to pay through our noses for every small improvement, manufacturers will get the message quickly or else they will be dead and replaced. Takes time but it always happens, look at GM, BlackBerry and Nokia for a great example and how they were replaced despite being number one.
No business is bigger than its customers, stop buying and watch prices go down, afterall prices are set on what customers will pay not altruism on the sellers behalf. If it's genuinely ground breaking, sure I'll pay more but a new revision with a 10% improvement and a 50% price hike is a big nope. 
We spoilt the sellers in high end audio and still paying the price for it.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





gikigill said:


> If we refuse to pay through our noses for every small improvement, manufacturers will get the message quickly or else they will be dead and replaced. Takes time but it always happens, look at GM, BlackBerry and Nokia for a great example and how they were replaced despite being number one.
> No business is bigger than its customers, stop buying and watch prices go down, afterall prices are set on what customers will pay not altruism on the sellers behalf. If it's genuinely ground breaking, sure I'll pay more but a new revision with a 10% improvement and a 50% price hike is a big nope.
> We spoilt the sellers in high end audio and still paying the price for it.


 
   
  But, try as we might, there will still be a few people out there with $5500 willing and able to buy a behemoth like this, just as there are tons people who have $400 and buy a pair of Beats. This is PRICE we're talking about here. Because the way I see it, this "high-end" audio is a niche market, and we spend a lot on niche items catered to our tastes. If the SQ of a certain headphone isn't for you, I don't think it'll justify the price even if people say its THAT good.
   
  The thing is, a consumer has a craving, in our case, a craving for the best sound (to us) that exists... And we can find that anywhere, from a headphone like the AB-1266 to the Koss Porta Pro (which I love). And if a consumer isn't satisfied he will want to have more and more choices, which is what is going on with the high-end audio market. They're following what we want, saying the things we want to hear (Clarity! Warmth? BASS? Treble! EXPENSIVE! Cheap?). Its all up to us.
   
  All it comes down to is the Abyss is another flavor of a great line of headphones (Orthos). And I'd love to see more flavors come as the days go by. They may not be as priced as this, maybe cheaper, maybe worse, but it all comes down to what the audio market is going towards, which is "that sound" people want.


----------



## Jazzkammer

gikigill said:


> If we refuse to pay through our noses for every small improvement, manufacturers will get the message quickly or else they will be dead and replaced. Takes time but it always happens, look at GM, BlackBerry and Nokia for a great example and how they were replaced despite being number one.
> No business is bigger than its customers, stop buying and watch prices go down, afterall prices are set on what customers will pay not altruism on the sellers behalf. If it's genuinely ground breaking, sure I'll pay more but a new revision with a 10% improvement and a 50% price hike is a big nope.
> We spoilt the sellers in high end audio and still paying the price for it.




unfortunately that is not true. ultrasone's Ed 10 are notoriously overpriced, representing terrible value, and the dismal sales prove that (only 2010 of them were ever manufactured 3+ years agoand retailers still have plenty left in stock. yet as far as I know, we have yet to see a price drop for the Ed 10s.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





gikigill said:


> If we refuse to pay through our noses for every small improvement, manufacturers will get the message quickly or else they will be dead and replaced. Takes time but it always happens, look at GM, BlackBerry and Nokia for a great example and how they were replaced despite being number one.


 
   
  Yup. Happens all the time in "high-end" audio. Companies come and go. Or names come back / companies resurrected with different management. It's a pretty rapid churn. Quite amusing if you keep track.
   
  BTW, I wanted to clarify a few misconceptions with Tyll's measurements:
   

 The "bass rolloff" is not perceivable. A close inspection of Tyll's FR graph indicates the graph goes way down to 10Hz. Actual roll-off starts at 30Hz. There's very little content below 30Hz for 99% of music (just listen to music while looking at a spectrum analyzer or perform a spectral analysis in Adobe Audition, etc.) And the the roll-off isn't severe: ~5db down at 20Hz. (In other words, it's not like everything below 30Hz suddenly becomes missing.) Even then, bass measurements are highly affected by seal. It's sort of one of those pain-in-the-ass things folks who do measurements have to deal with and always worry about.
 There is a perceivable dip around 5k. However it's not as severe as would be indicated by the FR (remember, the FR is only but one measurement.) I suspect the dip at 5k is partially the result of a measurement artifact, a wave cancellation related to the inner diameter of the pad. Also, in CSD waterfall plots, the 5k dip disappears after the first few initial time slices.
 The AB-1266 30Hz square waves are not very square. This is largely the result of the large measurement dip in the FR at 5kHz. 30Hz square waves can mathematically be derived from FR (but not the other way around).
 If one feels that it's hip for 30Hz square waves to be square, then by all means, get the LCD2/3. Personally, I don't listen to 30Hz square waves. 30Hz square waves sound really bucking nasty.


----------



## Duckman

I found it strange that the Conductor was given the thumbs up by Joe as a good match for the Abyss. It seemed to be the least favoured amp down at Addicted to Audio.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





duckman said:


> I found it strange that the Conductor was given the thumbs up by Joe as a good match for the Abyss. It seemed to be the least favoured amp down at Addicted to Audio.


 
   
  Maybe it depends on the pairing?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jerg said:


> Squarewaves wise, the Abyss looks almost exactly like Hifiman HE400 actually. Take a look.
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/JPSLabsAbyssAB1266.pdf
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE400.pdf


 
  Actually there's a lot more similarities there beyond the square wave plots (30 and 300Hz). The frequency responses are fairly similar, the distortion seems a bit better on the Abyss, but the impulse response is quite a bit better on the HE400s. Price difference = $5100.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> Maybe it depends on the pairing?


 
   
  Source is important too.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





purrin said:


> Source is important too.


 

 One may go so far to say it's critical.


----------



## citadel

I just ordered a pair of the Abyss ab-1266.
   
  What attracted me to them was that I didnt have to invest in an electrostatic amp (I also have limited desk space as it is),
  while getting something on par or as close to possible to the sr-009 (with better bass and soundstage).
   
  Hope it will pair well with the audio-gd nfb 27 I have.


----------



## purrin

I'm running the AB-1266 with the LAu which is fricking awesome, but I've also found the lowly $750 Mjolnir very capable. The power demands of the AB-1266 are not insignificant. They seem to be somewhere between the HE-500 and HE-6. Output Z of the NFB-27 is 1 ohm. Rated power into 50 ohms is 6 watts. You should be fine if the specs are correct.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





purrin said:


> *I'm running the AB-1266 with the LAu which is fricking awesome*, but I've also found the lowly $750 Mjolnir very capable. The power demands of the AB-1266 are not insignificant. They seem to be somewhere between the HE-500 and HE-6. Output Z of the NFB-27 is 1 ohm. Rated power into 50 ohms is 6 watts. You should be fine if the specs are correct.


 
  Can't say I'm not jealous... I'm drooling on the floor as I type this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  looking forward to your usual measurements/analysis. On this site or another.


----------



## purrin

There up if you check. My results were the pretty much the same as Tyll's.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





purrin said:


> There up if you check. My results were the pretty much the same as Tyll's.


 
  Just read the thread.
   
  Abyss has balls! LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The only thing missing from the Abyss threads is Googleli. Where are you Googleli? Still creaming with the LCD-3? Probably driving your McLaren P1 in circles on your 350ft yacht while the super model sitting in the passenger seat serves you caviar. We need you back here and lord over us with your money again. I miss the good o' days on the LCD-2 thread. Perhaps if the Abyss had a bit more cream to it he would return.


----------



## purrin

For how much we got into each other's faces, I do miss Googeli. He had fighting spirit, at a time when the yard narcs let us get away with much more. It's a more gentler kinder HF these days.


----------



## citadel

I just got my Abyss ab-1266.
   
  In comparison to the HD800, I would say that it is a better headphone. 
   
  It has much better bass, at least as much detail (maybe a little bit more so far), wider (and maybe deeper) soundstage, and a more enjoyable sound signature.
  The Sennheiser had equal or slightly better instrument placement (really hard to tell) and comfort.
   
  This very brief analysis is without performing any burn in. The amp used was an audio-gd nfb-27.
   
  The materials used on this headphone are top notch. Solid and cleanly built. Feels very robust.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





citadel said:


> I just got my Abyss ab-1266.
> 
> The amp used was an audio-gd nfb-27.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





defqon said:


>


 
  lol, I know.... probably not the best match. I cant blow all my money at once.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





citadel said:


> lol, I know.... probably not the best match. I cant blow all my money at once.


 
  that being said, the nfb-27 is a damn good DAC/amp for the asking price.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





citadel said:


> that being said, the nfb-27 is a damn good DAC/amp for the asking price.


 
  Yeh but that's not the point. You know exactly what I'm going to say about that amp and a five n half thousand dollar headphone. Crazy. Not far from patrick82 who diced up a $14k power cable to recable his K1k powered by some T-Amp.


----------



## faverodefavero

stacker45 said:


> As i have said before, Ferrucio Lamborghini went from manufacturing farm tractors, to high end sports cars.





Just my opinion, really. I don't really "go" for the idea of super-expensive headphones. As for cars... Well, I never really liked Lamborghini style. I'm more of a "classical sport car" than a "super sport car" man. I like Porche 911 GTs, AMG SLSs and C63, Jaguar E and F types better than any Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren super low suspension futuristic design models. But, again, just me.


----------



## faverodefavero

macedonianhero said:


> Actually there's a lot more similarities there beyond the square wave plots (30 and 300Hz). The frequency responses are fairly similar, the distortion seems a bit better on the Abyss, but the impulse response is quite a bit better on the HE400s. Price difference = $5100.




Yeah. Sigh


----------



## etherlite

I'd say you'd benefit more if you invest on better DAC & Amp first before.jumping on the abyss...


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> I'd say you'd benefit more if you invest on better DAC & Amp first before.jumping on the abyss...


 
  +9000 or any serious headphone for that matter.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





defqon said:


> +9000 or any serious headphone for that matter.


 
   
  Guh but its so temptiiiiing...


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> I'd say you'd benefit more if you invest on better DAC & Amp first before.jumping on the abyss...


 
   
  Hmm...The reason why I didnt was because some people regard audio-gd products to sound as good as something twice as expensive. They don't look the best but they have really high specs and are very cheap for the given specs.
   
  Anyway, one day in the distant future (when I have the funds) I may get a cavalli.


----------



## DefQon

Not to rain down on you but specs and high end sound/sound impressions have no correlation with each from a perspective. I have also owned that particular model you have there and frankly said you're not getting the best out of the HD800's at all. 10-30 mins of quick audition time also is not enough and generally your mind(due to placebo) will automatically think newer is better (not always the case). Anyway enough yapping from me. Godspeed and good luck.


----------



## etherlite

Quote: 





citadel said:


> Hmm...The reason why I didnt was because some people regard audio-gd products to sound as good as something twice as expensive. They don't look the best but they have really high specs and are very cheap for the given specs.
> 
> Anyway, one day in the distant future (when I have the funds) I may get a cavalli.


 
  NFB-27 is a 1500$ DAC/Amp
   
  2x1500 = 3000$, I don't think a DAC + an amp with total cost of 3000$ to be enough to drive Abyss well...


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> NFB-27 is a 1500$ DAC/Amp
> 
> 2x1500 = 3000$, I don't think a DAC + an amp with total cost of 3000$ to be enough to drive Abyss well...


 
  You can't really calculate it that way. The amp section in the NFB-27 is the weaker of the model, the DAC section is quite nice. 
   
  I'm pretty sure those DIY Pass amp's that can cost around $1k be able to drive orthos such as the Abyss better than any conventional headphone amplifier as orthos love currents and high voltage swing.


----------



## jsgraha

citadel said:


> I just got my Abyss ab-1266.
> 
> In comparison to the HD800, I would say that it is a better headphone.
> 
> ...




Nice... 
Please give more impression once the phone burn-in.
In my experience, audio-gd such as my ref7 sound better when I left it on 24/7, so I never turn it off =)


----------



## gikigill

May I kindly ask why a $3000 amp/dac isn't good enough for the Abyss? Not a personal attack but just a question from curiosity considering headphones will end up the way of high end audio soon with anything less than 20k classified as mid range. 

I plan to get a BHSE in the future and this kinda thinking pisses me off that a $3000 solid state combo isn't good enough. I understand stat technology is complicated but solid state is simply inexcusable. Maybe we should just start at $10000 and encourage prices to go up even more. 

/rant


----------



## jsgraha

I like the pairing of m51+ Mjolnir driving the Abyss, and it's less than aud 2.5k =)


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





gikigill said:


> May I kindly ask why a $3000 amp/dac isn't good enough for the Abyss? Not a personal attack but just a question from curiosity considering headphones will end up the way of high end audio soon with anything less than 20k classified as mid range.


 
  Where did you get the $3000 figure from?
   
  The NFB-27 is a $1500 DAC/amp all in one. The amp section is not the best as there are cheaper dedicated amp's that sound better. The DAC section is not bad.


----------



## gikigill

It's from etherlites post where he mentions that a $3000 setup might not be enough. 
A NAD M51 with the a Pass amp should be just fine considering it powers the HE6 well which I would assume are much more hungry than the Abyss. 

I mention this because I have never found a single hp amp that had the grunt to power the HE6 properly and have been experimenting with vintage amps and I rate the HE6 as 90% of a Stax SR007.


----------



## etherlite

Well, looking on how people are setting it up with Liquid Glass, I assume that would be the standard. 
   
  Although I was surprised that Joe suggested Tyll to pair the Abyss with Burson Conductor >.>


----------



## preproman

I guess my $1.5K F1J is not good enough for the Abyss then huh?  Really, we need to keep the price of gear separate from the impressions.  Unless it comes down to a cost per performance question.
   
  I would have bought an amp and / or DAC with that money.  The Abyss will be around for a while.  The upstream gear is pretty important as well.


----------



## wink

Quote:citadel 





> lol, I know.... probably not the best match. I cant blow all my money at once.
> ReplyQuote Multi


 
  Why not? This is head-Fi and your wallet doesn't count.
   
  Would be glad to help you burn the abyss in.
   
   
  Quote:gikigill 





> May I kindly ask why a $3000 amp/dac isn't good enough for the Abyss? Not a personal attack but just a question from curiosity considering headphones will end up the way of high end audio soon with anything less than 20k classified as mid range.
> 
> I plan to get a BHSE in the future and this kinda thinking pisses me off that a $3000 solid state combo isn't good enough. I understand stat technology is complicated but solid state is simply inexcusable. Maybe we should just start at $10000 and encourage prices to go up even more.


 
  That's not the way to look at it.
  Synergy between components is far more important than price of components.


----------



## gikigill

No doubt wink, but when we start setting a dollar floor there might not be a ceiling to it. If we start deciding that anything less than $X000 isn't suitable for a particular purpose then heaven help us. 

My humble AD900X sound better out of a refurbished $100 vintage amplifier than my iBasso combo worth multiple times more, a lot more punch and smoother sound. The dollar figure just becomes totally irrelevant in my personal and anecdotal evidence.


----------



## etherlite

Quote: 





wink said:


> That's not the way to look at it.
> Synergy between components is far more important than price of components.


 
  True, plus self preference also plays a role.
   
  My bad for setting up a base price, but IMO it'd be difficult to find a good enough system to run abyss below that price :/


----------



## dBel84

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> Well, looking on how people are setting it up with Liquid Glass, I assume that would be the standard.
> 
> Although I was surprised that Joe suggested Tyll to pair the Abyss with Burson Conductor >.>


 
   
  The Abyss is more power hungry than the HE6. At this point the best synergy I have experienced with these headphones is the Liquid Gold - LAu ( the balanced SS Cavalli amp that is currently in production ) , the Liquid Glass - LG does a formidable job but the LAu really makes them shine
   
  Quote: 





preproman said:


> I guess my $1.5K F1J is not good enough for the Abyss then huh?  Really, we need to keep the price of gear separate from the impressions.  Unless it comes down to a cost per performance question.
> 
> I would have bought an amp and / or DAC with that money.  The Abyss will be around for a while.  The upstream gear is pretty important as well.


 
  agreed , cost of gear does not dictate performance nor synergy. Is the output impedance of the F1J much lower than the 80 ohms of the F1? I suspect the silicon carbide fets will drop this but there is more to output impedance than just the active device in use.
   
  ..dB


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





dbel84 said:


> The Abyss is more power hungry than the HE6.


 
   
  Yeah - Didn't Tyll do his review with the Abyss on the Conductor?


----------



## gikigill

If it's more power hungry than the HE6, it needs it's own nuclear power plant. I would also check with state authorities to ensure it doesn't bring the entire power grid down.


----------



## dBel84

I think this is why the LAu works as well, it is essentially a small power amp but with the fidelity needed for headphones..dB


----------



## purrin

As dBel84 said, it's all about synergy. One does not need a mega-buck amp to enjoy this headphone. I'd look for power and low output Z to start. I did not like the AB-1266 from a variety of tube amps I tried. But I did enjoy them from the LAu, LG, Mjolnir (fully burned-in) and a Crest CA-2 speaker amp. AB-1266 is not nearly as tough as HE-5 or HE-6 to drive.


----------



## M-13

It sounded better out of the Liquid Glass than the Mjolnir right? Or was it close enough?
   
  Quote: 





gikigill said:


> If it's more power hungry than the HE6, it needs it's own nuclear power plant. I would also check with state authorities to ensure it doesn't* bring the entire power grid down*.


 
  This is funny. You unbox the Abyss all excited. Plug it into your amp with glee and then... your entire neighborhood goes dark.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> This is funny. You unbox the Abyss all excited. Plug it into your amp with glee and then... your entire neighborhood goes dark.


 
   
  But your smile is still plastered on your face... coz you just don't care.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> Well, looking on how people are setting it up with Liquid Glass, I assume that would be the standard.
> 
> Although I was surprised that Joe suggested Tyll to pair the Abyss with Burson Conductor >.>


 
  And Joe recommended Tyll to run them off the EF-6 because pre-measurements on other gear looked wonky.
  Quote: 





preproman said:


> I would have bought an amp and / or DAC with that money.  The Abyss will be around for a while.  *The upstream gear is pretty important as well.*


 
  Definitely. Synergy is pretty important too.
   
  Quote: 





gikigill said:


> If it's more power hungry than the HE6, it needs it's own nuclear power plant. I would also check with state authorities to ensure it doesn't bring the entire power grid down.


 
  LOL....hey if you do you're taking down the power in my area too. On the other hand, some of the vintage amp's are no slouch, actually some of them sounded better than dedicated headphone amp's costing 20x more.
   
  Quote: 





m-13 said:


> This is funny. You unbox the Abyss all excited. Plug it into your amp with glee and then... your entire neighborhood goes dark.


 
  LOL!!! I can so imagine that happening.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *dBel84* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Is the output impedance of the F1J much lower than the 80 ohms of the F1? I suspect the silicon carbide fets will drop this but there is more to output impedance than just the active device in use.
> 
> ..dB


 
   
  Im pretty sure the only difference on the F1 vs the F1J is that input devices, the output devices are the same as far as I know


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





dbel84 said:


> The Abyss is more power hungry than the HE6.


 
   
  Hmmm I think the HE6 is slightly more power hungry, actually.


----------



## DefQon

Yeah we know who to blame when all of Melbourne's power goes out. >_> *looks at gikigill*.


----------



## gikigill

Gikigill----> Looks at adding a second HE6.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





gikigill said:


> Gikigill----> Looks at adding a second HE6.


----------



## citadel

Is it just me or does there seem to be a lot of 'blind' Stax fanboys/fangirls on the Abyss forums?
   
  After another evaluation, I can say that classic music such as Bach's violin concerto (Australian chamber orchestra with Richard Tognetti) does sound easily better with the Abyss ab-1266 compared to the sennheiser hd800.
   
  I absolutely love the HD800s, so this is saying something.
   
  After another days evaluation, I can easily say that these headphones are amazing.
   
  They sound better in at least 80% of the music I sampled in comparison to the T1, HE6, HE500, and HD800.
   
  Now, to further stir the hornets nest, I finish with an interesting quote from Tyll's review:
   
   
   


> Compared directly to the other cans, the SR-009 sounded a bit *sterile* and amazingly *not as fast* as the AB-1266. The bass on the Abyss was clearly more potent. The LCD-3 had slightly better bass response and neutrality than the AB-1266, but was somewhat muffled and withdrawn comparison. The HD 800 is the best imaging headphone I've heard, pin-point in it's precision. The Abyss had about the same sense of spaciousness, in fact, maybe more so given it's sparkly character, but it lacked the precise imaging of the HD 800. It fairly easily bested the HD 800 in bass response.


 
   
  All this with a mid-fi amp (EF-6). Can't wait for new amps to be developed for these cans.
   
  One last quote from a headphone expert many people here would know:
   
   


> In our opinion the Abyss blends the best of the LCD-3 along with the HD800 - soundstage is vast and wide with a liquid midrange that is very much like the SR-009, the STAX unit may compete with pace, rhythm and timing however it does not have the bass response of the Abyss which is the tautest and deepest we have yet heard on a headphone.


 
   
  Please, no offensive personal messages..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..I am being cheeky.


----------



## DairyProduce

Is there anyone here with both the SR-009 and the Abyss? The only straight up comparison I've seen with them is from Tyll so far...


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





dairyproduce said:


> Is there anyone here with both the SR-009 and the Abyss? The only straight up comparison I've seen with them is from Tyll so far...


 
   
  Apparently, MuppetFace has them both and prefers the Abyss.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





dairyproduce said:


> Is there anyone here with both the SR-009 and the Abyss? The only straight up comparison I've seen with them is from Tyll so far...


 
   
  Here is MuppetFace's quote from this site:
   
   
   


> *MuppetFace*
> 
> I own both the SR-009 and Abyss, and personally I'd take the Abyss.
> 
> ...


----------



## DefQon

But MF prefers the 007MK1 if she had to pick a single headphone out of the 3. Now you know where this goes, right? The EF-6 is not a mid-fi amp, it is hifiman's top of the line amp designed to drive the HE-6, but since people have gotten so carried away with powering them via integrated amp's, it is not that popular around these boards.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





dairyproduce said:


> Is there anyone here with both the SR-009 and the Abyss? The only straight up comparison I've seen with them is from Tyll so far...


 
   
  Sorry for spamming guys...another review found in
   
  http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57591530-47/abyss-ab-1266-headphones-run-$5495-but-theyre-worth-it/
   
   
   


> ...The AB-1266's dynamic range capabilities radically advance the state of the art, the$5,200 Stax SR 009 headphone may be the equal of the AB-1266's transparency and sound staging, but the SR 009's dynamic kicks and bass oomph aren't remotely in the AB-1266's league.


----------



## DefQon

Please for the love of god don't post Steve Guttenbergs reviews here.


----------



## DairyProduce

Why are Steve Guttenberg reviews so looked down on?


----------



## Darkbeat

He isn't wrong about the bass, but the Stax absolutely destroy the Abyss in treble and do a better job in the (slightly distant sounding) mids. Keep in mind he basically said the exact same thing in his LCD-3 review too (and crowned the LCD-3 the best headphone in the World as a result)


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





defqon said:


> But MF prefers the 007MK1 if she had to pick a single headphone out of the 3. Now you know where this goes, right? The EF-6 is not a mid-fi amp, it is hifiman's top of the line amp designed to drive the HE-6, but since people have gotten so carried away with powering them via integrated amp's, it is not that popular around these boards.


 
  There seems to be some inconsistencies in your views DefQon...If you can say than any audio-gd is not high-fi, then that should also apply to hifiman....Sorry, but the audio-gd amps have better specs and power planars just as well if not better.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





citadel said:


> There seems to be some inconsistencies in your views DefQon...If you can say than any audio-gd is not high-fi, then that should also apply to hifiman....Sorry, but the audio-gd amps have better specs and power planars just as well if not better.


 
  Just to be more precise, I am talking about the audio-gd master 8, ref 10.32, and nfb-27


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





darkbeat said:


> He isn't wrong about the bass, but the Stax absolutely destroy the Abyss in treble and do a better job in the (slightly distant sounding) mids. Keep in mind he basically said the exact same thing in his LCD-3 review too (and crowned the LCD-3 the best headphone in the World as a result)


 
  An example of the serious subjectivity of headphone opinions...
   
  We will never really agree....just agree to disagree.  One person told me the abyss had equally as good mids and highs as the sr-009...others tell me the sr-009 kills the abyss...
   
  Others would say the transparency and speed of the abyss kills the stax, etc...
   
  I think another problems is that not only do people have different tastes in sound, they use different amps and sources to make evaluations from each other.
   
  Once you get to high-fi/summit-fi, it's almost pointless to compare or convince others headphone A is better than headphone B at point C.


----------



## Darkbeat

citadel said:


> An example of the serious subjectivity of headphone opinions...
> 
> We will never really agree....just agree to disagree.  One person told me the abyss had equally as good mids and highs as the sr-009...others tell me the sr-009 kills the abyss...
> 
> ...



 
 Subjective opinions can easily be backed up by objective measurements and data. The AB-1266s are amazing headphones in so many ways, but they aren't without their flaws. The "headphone A is better than headphone B at point C" argument was started by you on the previous page, vis, the Abyss's bass response against that of the SR-009. The Abyss does have exceptional bass, perhaps the best I've ever heard, but that's far from the whole story and while some people like Steve Guttenberg choose to focus entire articles on nothing else (see also: his LCD-3 review), I'm sure there are many in this thread interested in the complete picture.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





darkbeat said:


> Subjective opinions can easily be backed up by objective measurements and data. The AB-1266s are amazing headphones in so many ways, but they aren't without their flaws. The "headphone A is better than headphone B at point C" argument was started by you on the previous page, vis, the Abyss's bass response against that of the SR-009. The Abyss does have exceptional bass, perhaps the best I've ever heard, but that's far from the whole story and while some people like Steve Guttenberg choose to focus entire articles on nothing else (see also: his LCD-3 review), I'm sure there are many in this thread interested in the complete picture.


 
  Firstly, I did not do say any headphone A is better than headphone B at point C  comment with the Stax sr-009 from my own personal experience. I am simply sharing the information that I read and heard from others. I have NEVER heard the star sr-009 before so I cannot make any personal claims or comments.
   
  Secondly, Steve Guttenberg did not just focus on bass in his article. To quote:
   
   


> Some audiophiles think the Stax SR-009 ($5,250) is the best sounding headphone on the market; I don't agree. Yes, it's even more transparent and clear, but the SR-009 lacks the LCD-3's power, dynamics, natural midrange, and potent bass.


 
   
  Thirdly, the complete picture (which again is subjective) is frankly unknown unless the individual test these headphones for themselves (with a fair setup and a "fair" assessment). 
   
  Sure, we can make technical measurements but in the end, we cannot escape subjectivity, as illustrated by the conflicting opinions of experienced headphone enthusiasts.
   
  This is like have a tube versus solid state debate. In the end, it is futile, and the individual must decide what he/she prefers!!!


----------



## Darkbeat

citadel said:


> Firstly, I did not do say any headphone A is better than headphone B at point C  comment with the Stax sr-009 from my own personal experience. I am simply sharing the information that I read and heard from others. I have NEVER heard the star sr-009 before so I cannot make any personal claims or comments.
> 
> Secondly, Steve Guttenberg did not just focus on bass in his article. To quote:
> 
> ...



 
 You triple posted with quotes designed to enflame in which the bass of the Abyss was compared favorably to that of the SR-009. That's fine, but when someone else points out that the Abyss simply isn't as balanced and struggles to reproduce the highs on the same level, you act as if this doesn't count.

 Steve Guttenberg's article can be summarised as: I liked the bass, this headphone is the best. It's a copy paste of his LCD-3 review in which he said almost verbatim the exact same arguments; flaws be damned, I love the bass. That's fine, by the way.

A fair test is impossible between electrostatic and dynamic headphones in the manner you describe.

Subjectivity is fine, but when subjective opinions state something that is backed up by measurements and data, this is what we call fact. Certainly let the individual decide according to their own tastes, but don't be surprised to find that many aren't as willing to paper over flaws on a 5.5 thousand dollar headphone.


----------



## DefQon

I'm sobering up now as I type this response so it's a good thing I'm not in my "fully awake state" with an ******* of a post coming your way.
  Quote: 





dairyproduce said:


> Why are Steve Guttenberg reviews so looked down on?


 
  There was a time where you gave the man some credit for his reviews, but nowadays his reviews is exactly like Stereophiles, crap. SG's is a prime example of "ohh newer is better", I mean look at it this way, when he heard the HE-6 on the Darkstar he claimed it the best headphone system in the world besting the SR-007 he heard prior, then the he claimed the SR-009 the best headphone, the the LCD3's when that came out, now the Abyss. You know where this is heading with future flagship releases from any of the mentioned companies. 
   
  Quote: 





citadel said:


> There seems to be some inconsistencies in your views DefQon...If you can say than any audio-gd is not high-fi, then that should also apply to hifiman....Sorry, but the audio-gd amps have better specs and power planars just as well if not better.


 
  When the hell did I ever say the NFB-27 was not high-end? Please go back 2 pages and read my posts. I posted clearly in response to you that while I had that model for a day in my possession the amp section was so and so but the dac section was pretty good, I did not mention a single thing about anything of Audio-GD being mid - fi or high-end so please don't pull words out of your arse as if I said it.
   
  Please don't stuff words into other peoples mouths which they have not said just because people with more experience then you have rained down on something you wasted your own money on just so you feel it as a justified product.
   
  Quote: 





citadel said:


> Just to be more precise, I am talking about the audio-gd master 8, ref 10.32, and nfb-27


 
   
  Seriously facepalm. This was originally about the NFB-27 which I had in my possession and which you own, why drag other Audio-GD products in here which have no meaningful correlation with the thread topic at hand.


----------



## MomijiTMO

It's the Internet guyssss. Chill.


----------



## citadel

DefQon you may need to sober up a little more. On another forum, you basically made fun of the fact that the abyss was paired with an audio-gd nfb 27. This implied that you believe the nfb 27 is not high fi material...unworthy of the abyss. 

Tje question is: Do you really think the ef6 is a whole lot better?

On paper (using thd, s/n and measurements), it's not at all. I have read some review that claim the ef6 is mediocre and that the nfb 27 is excellent. 

You are the first person I heard that did not like the nfb 27. I have actually demoed the ef6 with the he6 and found the nfb to be better (believe it or not).


----------



## scolaiw

Hahaha, whilst you guys were having a _friendly debate_ over the internet, I was at the MCG with 95,446 other fans watching my beloved Reds play Melbourne Victory.

 My night > Your night.


----------



## etherlite

We were implying that nfb 27 was unworthy of the abyss, yes. But not that it's not a high fi material.
   
  And although I haven't got the chance to listen to EF6, I did listen to nfb 27 before and I can say that I'm not a fan of nfb 27 either. Which one is better? I can barely read measurements anyway so I'd rather not say. :x
   
  I believe what DefQon & Darkbeat are trying to say is that Abyss, as a 5500$ headphone, although excels in some areas, still has some inferior parts compared to other headphones, although we can say that it's neck-to-neck with SR-009. the rests is down to preference.
   
  @scolaiw: screw you, I couldn't go to Sydney to watch my beloved Reds play A-league Super Stars due to class and exams T_T


----------



## VisceriousZERO

scolaiw said:


> Hahaha, whilst you guys were having a _friendly debate_ over the internet, I was at the MCG with 95,446 other fans watching my beloved Reds play Melbourne Victory.
> 
> 
> My night > Your night.




Congrats!

On my part I'll wait to get my 1266 then do my own impressions of them vs my SR-009 sitting at home...


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





citadel said:


> I have read some review that claim the ef6 is mediocre and that the nfb 27 is excellent.


 
   
  Can you point us to this review?


----------



## purrin

On SR-009 vs AB-1266, it's difficult to say which one is "faster". Speed may mean different things to different people. And even if they don't, the characteristics of fast or "transient response" are too difficult to generalize into one metric. The main difference between the two in terms of transient response speed is how they accelerate or decelerate.
   
  As I've mentioned elsewhere, the SR-009 tends to slowly ramp up before coming up to lightning fast speed and then slow down gently. It's a subtle effect, but the effect IMO does contribute to the SR-009 relaxed ethereal sound. The AB-1266 tends to accelerate like a four wheel drive launch and stop like an F1 car with carbon fiber brakes. Also, IMO, the SR-009 sounds faster or at least cleaner in the treble. High-hats, brushes, fast percussion is more delineated on the SR-009. However, bass on the SR-009 isn't as taut as the AB-1266. There's no such thing as "fast" bass, but bass does sounds faster on the AB-1266. Personally I feel the SR-009's relaxed ethereal sound is a coloration which is not heard in real life. The AB-1266's approach sounds much more realistic. But this really doesn't matter because that STAX sound is quite seductive, realistic or not.
   
  In terms of overall balance, the SR-009 sounds like it has a midrange emphasis with a slightly downward slope toward the bass (bass volume getting less and less as we get lower). The AB-1266 has a slight downward tilt from the the bass to the treble. Personally I find the overall balance of the AB-1266 more palatable to my tastes. However the AB-1266's treble is rough and has a peak near 9kHz. The extent of how annoying this peak is will depend upon other equipment in the chain.
   
  I highly doubt anyone who currently enjoys the SR-009 will see the AB-1266 as the superior headphone. The SR-009 costs a lot of money, and the folks who have it know what they are doing and are spoiled in the sense that the midrange and treble are exceptional. The SR-009 aficionado may likely find the rougher treble of the AB-1266 an unacceptable show-stopper issue. The weakness of the SR-009 IMO is the lack of low bass impact and overall tonal balance not suited for genres other than jazz or small venue classical. (Since I don't listen to Jazz, I'm always thinking Henry Purcell or other early Baroque with the SR-009s.)
   
  Ultimately it comes down to what one's sonic priorities are, what one is accustomed to, and what deficiencies one can find acceptable. I've sold my SR-009s long ago. I'm looking for some way to obtain the AB-1266.


----------



## scolaiw

Quote:


visceriouszero said:


> Congrats!
> 
> On my part I'll wait to get my 1266 then do my own impressions of them vs my SR-009 sitting at home...


 

 Nice, looking forward to reading your impressions.


----------



## forbigger

buy a 009, buy this. cut into half, make a new headphone with each left/right 009/1266 , you'll get the best of both world at each of your ears too with one spare in case one goes bad. 
   
  now, where's the 1277 or 1266 revision 2? bring it on !!!


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





forbigger said:


> buy a 009, buy this. cut into half, make a new headphone with each left/right 009/1266 , you'll get the best of both world at each of your ears too with one spare in case one goes bad.
> 
> now, where's the 1277 or 1266 revision 2? bring it on !!!


 

 I'm not usually a pessimist, but I'm pretty sure doing that will get you the worst of both worlds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also, I think it might just be a little too soon for a rev. 2 since most people haven't even gotten a pair of 1266s onto their ears yet! I'm surprised Jude hasn't even mentioned a thing about them. Besides, as with most things, any chance of a rev. 2 being released depends solely on the success of rev. 1.


----------



## forbigger

>>>Is it just me or does there seem to be a lot of 'blind' Stax fanboys/fangirls on the Abyss forums?
   
  First of all ,I'm a stat devotee. In the beginning I was just surprised that a company that's deemed still wet behind their ears dared to challenge the king of hill thats been around for more than 50 years. Me too was hostile toward this headphone and hope that it would be another flung. BUT Tyll review change my perception from negative to neutral. Now I'm really interested to listen to this headphone and see what's all about. There's a possibility for me to switch back to the dark side (depending on which side you're from) if I found this to be a 009 killer. I'd prefer dynamic/ortho than stats when it comes to maintenance and general robustness of its driver (more resilient to dust, humidity, etc).....
   
  If you notice, right after Tyll review came up, the hostility subside because he's a pretty much respected reviewer in our world. Calling stats fanboy/girls "blind" would be an utter exaggeration......On the part of amp for this headphone, my opinion that this argument is futile and premature. There's still bunch of quality amp out there thats not been tested with this headphone. Same thing with source. Lets gather more impression before making a conclusion.....


----------



## Happy Camper

It's price is holding them up for a lot of ortho fans. I'd like to know if they can take a speaker amp to drive them. With the 6s at least, there are a lot of options in the amp department that will make the 6s sing. That fact alone would make the cost of the AB more bearable. But that will challenge the marketing efforts and partnerships.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

I think the Abyss just needs to prove that its worth its price, just like what forbigger said, its "a company that dares to challenge the king of the hill", only the king of the hill now is STAX.

Over time we will have to accept that this headphone is really one of the big boys.


----------



## purrin

The AB-1266 does not have special requirements for amps to get a good a lot out of it. I don't know why this amping issue keeps coming up simply because one person (who has not heard, touched, or even seen the AB-1266 in person) mentioned that a suitably expensive amp may be a requirement.
   
  As I've said, the AB-1266 does pretty darn good from two fairly inexpensive amps I've tried (Mjolnir and Crest CA-2 power amp). It's not like the SR-009 or SR-007 which IMO needs at a minimum of a KGSS (preferably better) to get something close to its potential. 
   


visceriouszero said:


> I think the Abyss just needs to prove that its worth its price, just like what forbigger said, its "a company that dares to challenge the king of the hill", only the king of the hill now is STAX.
> 
> Over time we will have to accept that this headphone is really one of the big boys.


 
   
  Not all people consider the SR-009 or STAX to be the king of the hill. But I've said, if someone likes the SR-009, and likes what it does well and doesn't mind what it doesn't do well, it's extremely unlikely they will prefer the AB-1266. The AB-1266 is more for people who have been looking for a particular sound, a tonal response more akin to HE-500, but at a higher level of fidelity. Something like this has not quite existed yet.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





purrin said:


> Not all people consider the SR-009 or STAX to be the king of the hill. But I've said, if someone likes the SR-009, and likes what it does well and doesn't mind what it doesn't do well, it's extremely unlikely they will prefer the AB-1266. The AB-1266 is more for people who have been looking for a particular sound, a tonal response more akin to HE-500, but at a higher level of fidelity. Something like this has not quite existed yet.


 
   
  It may be one of the Kings though, me personally I see my LCD-3 to be the king of the hill but I'm willing to try the AB-1266 and see how it fares. Waiting for my Tralucent Uber cables as well to try out with both 'phones.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





citadel said:


> DefQon you may need to sober up a little more. On another forum, you basically made fun of the fact that the abyss was paired with an audio-gd nfb 27. This implied that you believe the nfb 27 is not high fi material...unworthy of the abyss.


 
  Ok now that I'm fully awake now I'll be honest with what I'm going to say. Although I haven't said anything directly i.e use of words about the NFB-27 being part of mid-fi/high-fi category (this is something you assumed and pulled out of mid-air), the amp section of the NFB-27 is crap and the price you pay for the NFB-27 is mainly King Wa's implementation of the DAC stage. The amp section is nothing special to write home about what's even funny is that, there are a lot of less expensive dedicated amp's that sound better with the HD800's you have.
   
  Nothing implies nothing unless I directly say it. And it was etherlites post that from his experience that indicated the NFB-27 is unworthy of the Abyss, which I have to sort of agree with.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Ok now that I'm fully awake now I'll be honest with what I'm going to say. Although I haven't said anything directly i.e use of words about the NFB-27 being part of mid-fi/high-fi category (this is something you assumed and pulled out of mid-air), the amp section of the NFB-27 is crap and the price you pay for the NFB-27 is mainly King Wa's implementation of the DAC stage. The amp section is nothing special to write home about what's even funny is that, there are a lot of less expensive dedicated amp's that sound better with the HD800's you have.
> 
> Nothing implies nothing unless I directly say it. And it was etherlites post that from his experience that indicated the NFB-27 is unworthy of the Abyss, which I have to sort of agree with.


 
   
  The audio-gd nfb-27 amp is based on the audio-gd master-8 and has the same amp section as the audio-gd ref-10.2/10.32 that is fully balanced with individual R-Cores for each channel. This is why I mentioned those amps in the earlier post (either here or on the other Abyss thread). The electronic components (capicitors, etc...) are of very good spec. To continue (on paper), we see a very high S/N ratio, very good channel separation, very low THD, etc...
   
  Not everyone likes the amp component's clean neutral and natural sound but many do. It's the same with the WA5 you called 'craptastic'. There are many fans of that amp. 
   
  If you do a search for nfb-27 on this site, you will see a couple of reviews and owners who love the damn thing.. However, if you are just talking about the amp component, then comments about the the audio-gd reference 10.32 and 10.2 apply to the nfb-27 (again, since the amp section is identical), from which you will find a number of positive reviews on the net (specifically for the amp component).


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





citadel said:


> The audio-gd nfb-27 amp is based on the audio-gd master-8 and has the same amp section as the audio-gd ref-10.2/10.32 that is fully balanced with individual R-Cores for each channel. This is why I mentioned those amps in the earlier post (either here or on the other Abyss thread). The electronic components (capicitors, etc...) are of very good spec. To continue (on paper), we see a very high S/N ratio, very good channel separation, very low THD, etc...
> 
> Not everyone likes the amp component's clean neutral and natural sound but many do. It's the same with the WA5 you called 'craptastic'. There are many fans of that amp.
> 
> If you do a search for nfb-27 on this site, you will see a couple of reviews and owners who love the damn thing.. However, if you are just talking about the amp component, then comments about the the audio-gd reference 10.32 and 10.2 apply to the nfb-27 (again, since the amp section is identical), from which you will find a number of positive reviews on the net (specifically for the amp component).


 
  Very low THD numbers don't mean squat as those rated percentage numbers of low-level floor noise is inaudible to the ear to discern any differences unless the THD was in the hundreds range, that's a different story. What you're doing now is summarising the specs that is written by the manufacturer, maybe it's completely true, maybe it isn't do take note that sometimes those rated specs don't tell the truth and this has been seen with amp's(even DAC's) from time to time, Stereophile even 6moons have had reviews units that don't produce anywhere near the numbers manufacturers have on spec sheets, some have even failed throughout review testing. 
   
  The WA5 is only crap, maybe it was a bit too harsh of me to call it crap is because you get so very little out of the sound performance for the price you pay for, I've heard all the Woo units up to date except the electrostatic amp's. As far as I'm concerned Woo is all about build quality, rather than sound performance, big fancy enclosures that give you the impression that it is all high and mighty but only to wiped on the floor by something less expensive or extruding in looks.
   
  Every product has fan's or followers (and some are so damn thick-headed to talk to it becomes annoying; ignorance is a bliss), there are equal amount of those that have heard it and do not like it and this doesn't apply to the NFB-27. I suggest you keep an open-mind listen to everything A2A has, then get back to me in a year.


----------



## faverodefavero

To me, all this headphones costing more than USD$2'000.00 are really something for us to worry about. What will major companies charge us for their next flagship? 
Beyerdynamic and Sennheiser will likely charge way more for their next flagships, like USD$3'000.00 and, maybe more, when something like USD$1'500.00 is waaay more justifiable and fare, for "the best" headphones. This hobby is starting to become too snob and utterly unjustifiably expansive, in my opinion (and nothing will make me change opinion and think USD$3'000.00+ is justifiable and truly reflex all costs and R&D to develop one those "best" headphones).

Just me, but I'd really like to see people pushing down flagship headphone prices, instead of up to the infinite.

I remember when I great, hi-end, end game full (amp+DAC+headphone) headphone setup would be around USD$3'500.00~4'000.00, two or three years ago, for dynamic headphones at least (stats where always much more expansive). Too me, some USD$2000.00~3500.00 DAC+amp most combos for dynamics can compete with any USD$5000.00+ headphone combos. 

People are paying boutique price and get convinced by that the one thing is better than other. And haters (and snobfies) gonna hate.


----------



## gikigill

Yup, only a matter of time when we end up similar to high end audio. Hopefully I will be out of the game before that happens.


----------



## citadel

Another review ladies and gentlemen...

 http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/first-listen-abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones/


----------



## DefQon

Already been posted, it sort of comes off as SG's review, "oh because it has good bass, it is the best" kind of thing. No detail on the test equipment so sort of skimps out on being a meh review.
   
  This thread on other hand brings nothing special to the table and nor does the Abyss. Big thanks to the usual crew at A2A for the auditions /unsubscribed.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Already been posted, it sort of comes off as SG's review, "oh because it has good bass, it is the best" kind of thing. No detail on the test equipment so sort of skimps out on being a meh review.
> 
> This thread on other hand brings nothing special to the table and nor does the Abyss. Big thanks to the usual crew at A2A for the auditions /unsubscribed.


 

 DefQon, your vacuous opinions bring nothing special to the table. Stop trolling.


----------



## scolaiw

Guys, we're all friends here. Friendly discussions please.


----------



## Audio Jester

Seriously, what is all this hating about? This is SummitFi, the section of the forums where we should be championing ambitious products such as these! From the reviews of people who have actually listened to these headphones it seems that the Abyss needs decent gear to sound it's best. So instead of complaining that a headphone does not sound great out of the gear you WANT it to sound great out of and reprimanding companies for pushing the envelope, we should be focusing on how we can get the most out of this headphone that is possible. 

I for one look forward to hearing this headphone at its best.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> Guys, we're all friends here. Friendly discussions please.


 
   
  Ladies and gentlemen, my apologies for my harsh comment... I got upset that he did not even bother to read what the review stated and fed up with his strongly expressed opinions that lacked substance. One of his recent comments were:
   
   


> "oh because it has good bass, it is the best"


 
   
  The review mentioned nothing specifically about bass. This is just how some hold a dogmatic view rather than an open and honest mind. This is what the review actually said with regards to the Stax SR-009
   
   
   


> I only know of one headphone that can, in some respects, give the AB-1266 a serious run for its money and that would be the Stax SR-009 electrostatic headphone. One might argue, in fact that the Stax may be, by a hair, just slightly quicker (in terms of transient speed) and perhaps just slightly more resolving (at least at some frequencies). However, the Stax cannot, I think, equal the Abyss in terms of sheer accuracy of tonal balance nor can it match the Abyss’s uncanny ability to sound equally focused and coherent at _all _frequencies. But the biggest and most obvious differences fall in the area of dynamics, where the Abyss captures both large- and small-scale dynamic contrasts with greater impact, subtlety, and precision than the Stax can. And, when or if push comes to shove, the Abyss can just plain play more loudly—and do so more gracefully—than the Stax can.


 
   
   
  To follow up, a statement like the following:
   
   
   


> This thread on other hand brings nothing special to the table and nor does the Abyss.


 
   
  is both childish and disrespectful to all of the thread contributors. Really, should someone state such views if he/she is disinterested in a thread? Why not gracefully unsubscribe? That would be the mature thing to do.


----------



## dBel84

Headfi Journey  - a bloggers view 
  
  
 and I am sure Frank would not object to linking his LA meet impressions here either 
  


frankcooter said:


> 2) The "Abyss" orthodynamic headphones. These are the most butt-ugly headphones I've ever seen. At a $5.5k price point, until I listened to them, I thought they couldn't be anything except a very expensive and very tasteless bad joke. Sonically, they are anything but a joke. The frequency response may be a little ragged, but they do things I've never heard in any other headphone. Imagine mating the sound stage of an AKG K-1000,  the speed, detail, and imaging of Stax., and the tight, articulate bass and rich midrange tonality of an LCD-3. It's not ready for prime-time yet, but there's real potential to set a whole new standard for headphone performance here. I hope this is just the beginning, and that eventually we see a refined product at a real-world price.


----------



## wink

Keep up the good work, DefQon.
  A spade needs to be called a spade, and everyone's opinion is still an opinion.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





wink said:


> Keep up the good work, DefQon.
> A spade needs to be called a spade, and everyone's opinion is still an opinion.


 
   
  What spade was actually called a spade, by the way? 
   
  There is an etiquette for expressing opinions. Firstly, claims are expected to be back by facts
  or at least qualified personal experience. Secondly, flaming, arrogance, narrow-mindedness, or obnoxious comments should not be made.
   
  We all come here knowing that we have different opinions, tastes, and preferences for music and for headphones. What is the point of making comments like 'WA5 is crap', 'NFB-27, LOL!! (laughing at my source amp)', and so on...? It is hard to find 'black and white' assessments with hifi level equipment, and if you are making such an assessment, one should be courteous enough to explain why.
   
  I


----------



## jerg

Quote: 





dbel84 said:


> Headfi Journey  - a bloggers view
> 
> 
> and I am sure Frank would not object to linking his LA meet impressions here either


 
  That Abyss diaphragm:
   

   
  Reminds me of the HE6 diaphragm
   

   
  I wonder what the purpose of the fine woven metallic mesh is, in both HE6 and Abyss.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

audio jester said:


> Seriously, what is all this hating about? This is SummitFi, the section of the forums where we should be championing ambitious products such as these! From the reviews of people who have actually listened to these headphones it seems that the Abyss needs decent gear to sound it's best. So instead of complaining that a headphone does not sound great out of the gear you WANT it to sound great out of and reprimanding companies for pushing the envelope, we should be focusing on how we can get the most out of this headphone that is possible.
> 
> I for one look forward to hearing this headphone at its best.




hear hear.

I'm just gonna wait for mine to arrive then tell you guys what I think. Reminding you all I love the LCD as my favorite.


I'm happy we have summit-fi and hope it continues to grow in number.


----------



## faverodefavero

visceriouszero said:


> hear hear.
> 
> 
> I'm happy we have summit-fi and hope it continues to grow in number.





Numbers, yeah, just not in price. Any 1000+ headphone is ALREADY quite sumit-fi (HD800, T1, PS1000...).

I mean, I don't believe that they've expend more to develop LCD3, or ABsomthing than - for example - Sennheiser did with HD800. So, the sound quality R&D, technologically and material wise should be quite close. Only because, let's say, it sounds better, it does not justifies a price that was not expend in the product itself in the form of development, really new technology and build quality.

I mean, something can be budget to make and sound really great, them we should not encourage companies to charge premium just because it sounds good, if they don't pay premium to make the product in first place.

Just me afraid that in a few years from now, we all end up building single-use (headphone) sound-systems that cost as much as a Bentley (at least), for it be considered hi-end or whatever you wanna call it.


----------



## Audio Jester

faverodefavero said:


> Numbers, yeah, just not in price. Any 1000+ headphone is ALREADY quite sumit-fi (HD800, T1, PS1000...).
> 
> I mean, I don't believe that they've expend more to develop LCD3, or ABsomthing than - for example - Sennheiser did with HD800. So, the sound quality R&D, technologically and material wise should be quite close. Only because, let's say, it sounds better, it does not justifies a price that was not expend in the product itself in the form of development, really new technology and build quality.
> 
> ...




I agree that inflated costs are a concern, but many of the expensive top tier hp's do have decent value (imo). The Abyss is a HUGE step for a first hp (considering it was aimed at being king of the hill) and there would have been some considerable costs involved in getting it to market. At the end of the day we are talking about headphones. Once the price gets too high the product will have to compete with speakers, DSLRs and overseas holidays. There will always be a market for extreme $$$ gear but it will inevitably become so niche that most companies will not bother.


----------



## jackskelly

Quote: 





audio jester said:


> I agree that inflated costs are a concern, but many of the expensive top tier hp's do have decent value (imo). The Abyss is a HUGE step for a first hp (considering it was aimed at being king of the hill) and there would have been some considerable costs involved in getting it to market. At the end of the day we are talking about headphones. Once the price gets too high the product will have to compete with speakers, DSLRs and overseas holidays. There will always be a market for extreme $$$ gear but it will inevitably become so niche that most companies will not bother.


 
   
  Yeah, the best headphone rigs are still an order of magnitude cheaper than the best speaker set ups, and there are a lot of advantages to headphones compared with speakers (but there are also just as many ways that speakers are superior). I think I'm getting close to my ideal headphone rig, but for speakers, I still have a while before I can afford a reference set-up. In a way, headphones are quite special (which is why I imagine a lot of us are here on head-fi), and it's quite exciting that the market is expanding so rapidly.


----------



## Hutnicks

Quote: 





citadel said:


> What spade was actually called a spade, by the way?
> 
> There is an etiquette for expressing opinions. Firstly, claims are expected to be back by facts
> or at least qualified personal experience. *Secondly, flaming, arrogance, narrow-mindedness, or obnoxious comments should not be made.*
> ...


 
  Wow. You've obviously not stumbled across the trillion pages of "*Insert product name make model here*" appreciation threads. Or the "science forum"


----------



## wink

I believe this thread needs this insertion to keep things on a more even keel..............


----------



## citadel

A new review is up:
   
  http://headfijourney.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/abyss-ab-1266.html?view=classic


----------



## VisceriousZERO

These reviews are getting toxic...


----------



## etherlite

Quote: 





citadel said:


> A new review is up:
> 
> http://headfijourney.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/abyss-ab-1266.html?view=classic


 
   
  Repost >.> 
  Quote: 





dbel84 said:


> Headfi Journey  - a bloggers view
> 
> and I am sure Frank would not object to linking his LA meet impressions here either


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> Repost >.>


 
  sorry


----------



## Ceja-Blu

The obvious has been discussed to an ugly rant of the unreasonable and pointless- $5,500
  buys a headphone that claims to be the best sounding headphone in the market.
  Deal with it.  Many more will come. 
  For most of us mortals, with excellent incomes and a deep love of music and audio, JPS may well offer Holy Water bottled in a 24K Gold-Karat container and blessed by the Pope.
  $5,500 buys many audio delights including excellent amp/dacs, cables and a number of top-of-the-line headphones currently available.
  On first reading and detailed study of JPS's physical product design and Logo-  oig! that is a hideous looking pair of cans for that obscene price-point, just my own opinion.  Design a classic and timeless work of art with a sound to match and I'll personally save for five consecutive winters to buy it.   The "goth" "rock" letter logo is a disappointment and the frame and earphone housing is NOT sexy, smart, intelligent, alluring, or remotely lustful or sexy.  IMHO.
  Build an undeniably beautiful physical frame and enclosure and advertise it as the true Oasis of Planar headphones for under $2,000-  you will get my musician brain to pause and take heed, while reaching for my wallet.
  Look, I bought a damn MacBook Pro to listen to my music!  For the money, it makes me want to listen to music every day. It's the coolest and most beautifully simple machine in my entire $150,000 dollar studio.
  Go figure


----------



## Audio Jester

I thought what Jude wrote in the buying guide was interesting in relation to how much the pads affect the sound. For those who own the HP did you find the same outcome with varying the pads?


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





ceja-blu said:


> The obvious has been discussed to an ugly rant of the unreasonable and pointless- $5,500
> buys a headphone that claims to be the best sounding headphone in the market.


 

 At least for $5,500 you are getting something. Whether it's the best or just in the top 100 headphones (an exaggeration) ever made, it's still there. You could always be spending $1 million on a pair of diamond studded Beats....


----------



## Ceja-Blu

scolaiw said:


> At least for $5,500 you are getting something. Whether it's the best or just in the top 100 headphones (an exaggeration) ever made, it's still there. You could always be spending $1 million on a pair of diamond studded Beats....
> 
> So true... The leather case alone rounds off the purchase. Diamond studded Beats? You're killing me


----------



## gikigill

If you have to justify it using something as absurd as Beats, you probably don't have a good justification to begin with.


----------



## thune

Arguments against the price of the Abyss headphones just re-enforce its exclusive status, and certainly look petty in the eyes of people happy to pay for them. Like it or not, the market for unique and new TOTL headphones is large enough to make the JPS strategy seem quite reasonable, especially as they establish themselves in the market. If the AB-1266 is successful, JPS has suggested that newer products (at lower pricepoints) might be added to the line: So hope for that. Nipping and carping about the price of their totl product is a waste of time.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





thune said:


> Arguments against the price of the Abyss headphones just re-enforce its exclusive status, and certainly look petty in the eyes of people happy to pay for them. Like it or not, the market for unique and new TOTL headphones is large enough to make the JPS strategy seem quite reasonable, especially as they establish themselves in the market. If the AB-1266 is successful, JPS has suggested that newer products (at lower pricepoints) might be added to the line: So hope for that. Nipping and carping about the price of their totl product is a waste of time.


 
   
   
  Amen. +1
   
  i find the looks argument to be in a similar vein. I love how these cans look in person, but at the end of the day, I don't care if they are pink with purple spots.


----------



## Currawong

*The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility, it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed. -- Robert Pirsig*
   
  I think I need to put this back in my signature.


----------



## dBel84

Quote: 





currawong said:


> *The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility, it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed. -- Robert Pirsig*
> 
> I think I need to put this back in my signature.


 
   
   
  This brings to mind a quote from *Nelson Pass* " [size=10pt]There is no such thing as a [/size]_[size=10pt]perfect[/size]_[size=10pt] amplifier. Every audiophile and his associated equipment has specific needs, but in each case there is such a thing as a [/size]_[size=10pt]best[/size]_[size=10pt] amplifier - the one that makes you happy."[/size]


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





currawong said:


> *The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility, it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed. -- Robert Pirsig*
> 
> I think I need to put this back in my signature.


 
  Love it Currawong.


----------



## VortexBlast

I did post my first impressions in another thread recently but this is the more appropriate place to post it.
   
  So 2 days ago I went to my local Jaben store and they had something quite special. It was the Abyss.
   

   
  I was baffled on why they would stock these super expensive headphones that doesn't really measure like a $5500 headphone according to Innerfidelity. But anyway, they told me that they had already sold one unit to a rich fellow so I definitively need to have a listen.
   
  I was using my HP-P1 through a Bakoon HDA-5210 mk3 Amp.
   

   
  First thing you notice is the very weird looks and it's not a looker but the materials and build quality make up for it. When I held it, I was surprised on how light it was, lighter than my HE-500. The construction is very solid and exquisite and it will take a lot of force to actually break it or even flex it and the pads are real leather which is nice.
   

   
  In terms of ergonomics it didn't do well. There are not many ways to adjust the fit but even if you get a perfect fit, it will still be weird to wear it on the head and not very comfortable to my head at least. The pads can be removed or rotated easily thanks to magnets and pegs but what about the sound? Can it match the SR-009 in sound at this price point?
   

   
  Note: The first listen was done on high gain and the pads didn't create a seal at the bottom of my head but they said it was fine.
   
  First time listening was a bit disappointing actually. It was very much behind the SR-009 and worse than the LCD-3.
  The first thing I noticed is the very, very sharp and sparkly treble that was hurting my ears quite badly.
  Second are the lows. They are similar in quantity and quality as the HE-6 but not as much quantity as the LCD-2/3 but I was more impressed with its tightness and speed. It really was fast and dynamic.
  Mids were very good with nice instrument separation with forward and airy vocals but not as rich as the LCD-2/3. Soundstage and imaging was impressive and detail retrieval was amazing but it's not as resolving as the HD800 so it plays nicely with less well mastered music but overall the frequency response was fairly neutral with an elevated treble that really was fatiguing.
  After I gave my impressions to the people who work there, they said that they didn't find it bright, rather very dark in fact. They then wondered if the lack of seal messed the treble and bass so they rotated the pads a bit and now it sealed my head perfectly. I also put it in low gain after that.
   
  Second time listening was much, much better. The bass is now much more present and has actually a bit more quantity than the LCD-2/3 but with much better speed and dynamics and impact which makes it a very fun sounding headphone, the music just jumps around and never misses a beat.
  The annoying treble was toned down but still very much present, around the same quantity as the HE-6 but still sparkly sounding that gives a kind of unnatural, unrealistic metallic tone to cymbals and the likes.
  I also noticed that the vocals were a bit thicker and richer. It was still airy and I could hear the singer breathe in and out but it was still bested by the LCD-2/3. Then I did play a bit with the clamping force by pulling the drivers a bit further away from my ears and I noticed a much more elevated bass response which I think is normal in planar magnetic, my HE-500 exhibits the same thing as well.
  Overall, after a perfect seal, I think that this is a great headphone that deserves to be in the top of the line group but I do not think that it's as good as the SR-009. Better than the HE-6? Very much. Better than the LCD-3? It was a bit better but not $3500 better.
  This headphone sounds like as if an HE-6 married an LCD-3 and had a baby but still, If this headphone had a price of around $2500 then I would think that it's definitively worth every single penny but $5500? I would think not twice but a multiple of times and probably just go with the SR-009 and be done with it. It's a valiant effort for a first timer but it still has a long road to reach the peak of the mountain.
   
  TL;DR: A very good headphone that overcomes the criticisms of the HE-6 and LCD-3 but still behind the SR-009 and a price that's very much not worth it. But when you do get a good and perfect seal with just the right clamping force, this is a very, very fun headphone.


----------



## M-13

^Wow great photos and nice impression too. I hear the Bakoon plays nice with the Audezes.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> ^Wow great photos and nice impression too. I hear the Bakoon plays nice with the Audezes.


 
  At 1 W into 32 ohms, while playing nice is possible, being ideal (especially at that price) is another thing.


----------



## VortexBlast

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> At 1 W into 32 ohms, while playing nice is possible, being ideal (especially at that price) is another thing.


 
   
  The one tested there is the almost impossible to find even to look for information, Japan only model HDA-5210 Mk3 which I think pumps out even more wattage than the international Bakoons.
  It can even drive the HE-6 effortlessly.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> At 1 W into 32 ohms, while playing nice is possible, being ideal (especially at that price) is another thing.


 
  Despite that logic it apparently can drive them very well. From what I hear anyway. It's the magic of "current drive". I don't really understand to be honest, and can't really tell how this is different from Audio-gd, but apparently the Bakoon is crazy awesome with planars. Wish I could try it, but it's rare and it's expensive.


----------



## MacedonianHero

vortexblast said:


> The one tested there is the almost impossible to find even to look for information, Japan only model HDA-5210 Mk3 which I think pumps out even more wattage than the international Bakoons.
> It can even drive the HE-6 effortlessly.




Sorry, to drive the HE-6's effortlessly, you're gonna need a speaker amp and at least 20W.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





vortexblast said:


> The one tested there is the almost impossible to find even to look for information, Japan only model HDA-5210 Mk3 which I think pumps out even more wattage than the international Bakoons.
> It can even drive the HE-6 effortlessly.


 
   
  Well, a lot of people in the HE6 forum suggest levels at to the hifiman EF6 amp (5watts at 40ohms or something) is the *minimal* requirement.
   
  With thy Abyss, I would guess that the HDA-5210 Mk3 amp is not an ideal pairing at all (as it's requirements are somewhat close to the HE6).
   
  I would be interested for you to re-evaluate it with a better suited amp.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Despite that logic it apparently can drive them very well. From what I hear anyway. It's the magic of "current drive". I don't really understand to be honest, and can't really tell how this is different from Audio-gd, but apparently the Bakoon is crazy awesome with planars. Wish I could try it, but it's rare and it's expensive.


 
   
  Interesting. Even good with planars like HE6's and Abyss?


----------



## VortexBlast

Quote: 





citadel said:


> Well, a lot of people in the HE6 forum suggest levels at to the hifiman EF6 amp (5watts at 40ohms or something) is the *minimal* requirement.
> 
> With thy Abyss, I would guess that the HDA-5210 Mk3 amp is not an ideal pairing at all (as it's requirements are somewhat close to the HE6).
> 
> I would be interested for you to re-evaluate it with a better suited amp.


 
   
  While I admit that the HDA-5210 Mk3 might not have as much wattage as its speaker amp equivalent, the SCA-7511 Mk3 and that due to the lack of information concerning specs of the 5210 Mk3 I clearly have no idea with what headphone that particular amp is designed from. I do firmly believe that the 5210 Mk3 drives the Abyss reasonably well and that there is no need for more power to hear more of its potential though I would gladly like to hear it again with a more powerful amp, preferably with balanced inputs.
In all fairness, I would think that listening to the Abyss with a more powerful amp would only make tiny improvements. The Bakoon has more than enough power to bring all the dynamics to any planars including the HE-6 with its ridiculous power requirement.


----------



## arnaud

citadel said:


> I would be interested for you to re-evaluate it with a better suited amp.




Beware citadel, there's a an invisible line which, once crossed gets you to loose all credibility (and get labeled as fanboy)...


----------



## etherlite

Quote: 





arnaud said:


> Beware citadel, there's a an invisible line which, once crossed gets you to loose all credibility (and get labeled as fanboy)...


 
   
  IMO he already crossed that line hahaha
   
  anyway, I also had a listen at the same shop, and the abyss arrived when I brought my liquid fire there. With Calyx Femto as the DAC, both bakoon and LF runs the abyss at 1-2 o'clock. Both powerful enough and while bakoon has better low bass, LF has better treble


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





arnaud said:


> Beware citadel, there's a an invisible line which, once crossed gets you to loose all credibility (and get labeled as fanboy)...


 

 When an amp has an output of 1 W into 32 ohm, I would get worried bout using it with HE6 and Abyss.
  This is a technical recommendation based from my experience with the HE6.
   
  I am a huge fan of the Abyss. Nothing to be ashamed about here. Some people cant admit they are
  stax (or any other make/model) fanboys and pretend they are absolutely objective in their assessment.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





vortexblast said:


>


 
   
  Cool. This amp is very mysterious. I tried to look for specs myself, to no avail.


----------



## VortexBlast

Quote: 





citadel said:


> When an amp has an output of 1 W into 32 ohm, I would get worried bout using it with HE6 and Abyss.
> This is a technical recommendation based from my experience with the HE6.
> 
> I am a huge fan of the Abyss. Nothing to be ashamed about here. Some people cant admit they are
> stax (or any other make/model) fanboys and pretend they are absolutely objective in their assessment.


 
   
  I would like to inform you that the Japanese Bakoon amp that I used when I auditioned the Abyss is a totally different design than the international Korean Bakoons. The 1 W into 32 Ohm amp must be the HPA-21 which is a totally different model and design than the HDA-5210 Mk3.
  Though I'm not sure what the specs of the 5210 Mk3 are because of the absolute absence of info on the internet (that one is a particularly obscure model), I believe from what I heard by auditioning that they provide more than enough juice to power anything well except electrostats obviously.
   
  Though not to bash the Abyss which is a fine headphone in itself (I'll gloss over the looks) I just think that it's just too expensive for what it delivers sonically. A top of the line headphone that deserves the Summit-Fi place? Absolutely but I just feel that its price is not entirely justified.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





vortexblast said:


> I would like to inform you that the Japanese Bakoon amp that I used when I auditioned the Abyss is a totally different design than the international Korean Bakoons. The 1 W into 32 Ohm amp must be the HPA-21 which is a totally different model and design than the HDA-5210 Mk3.
> Though I'm not sure what the specs of the 5210 Mk3 are because of the absolute absence of info on the internet (that one is a particularly obscure model), I believe from what I heard by auditioning that they provide more than enough juice to power anything well except electrostats obviously.
> 
> Though not to bash the Abyss which is a fine headphone in itself (I'll gloss over the looks) I just think that it's just too expensive for what it delivers sonically. A top of the line headphone that deserves the Summit-Fi place? Absolutely but I just feel that its price is not entirely justified.


 

 Found it: http://bakoon-products.com/products/old/hpamp.html
   
  Hmmm, maybe a touch weak for the Abyss (on paper):
   
  20ohms to 4.417W (max)
   
  EF6 I think is 50ohms with 6W output...
   
  However, practically, it may be adequate enough (according to your impressions).


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





citadel said:


> Found it: http://bakoon-products.com/products/old/hpamp.html
> 
> Hmmm, maybe a touch weak for the Abyss (on paper):
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry, I probably should have quoted this spec:
   
  47ohms max output 2.214W
   
  I trust your impressions, I just dont understand how these are powerful enough for HE6 (without sound overly bright at high volumes) or the Abyss for that matter.
   
  I guess there are specs and then there are specs....


----------



## VortexBlast

Quote: 





citadel said:


> Sorry, I probably should have quoted this spec:
> 
> 47ohms max output 2.214W
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well anyways, specs are not everything (even if you linked the wrong amplifier, the right model but not the right generation, that one's an SP but not the Mk3).
  If I have the chance to audition the Abyss again, I will try it with a different amp. Maybe with its speaker power amp relative, the SCA-7511 Mk3 or another one for that matter.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





vortexblast said:


> Well anyways, specs are not everything (even if you linked the wrong amplifier, the right model but not the right generation, that one's an SP but not the Mk3).
> If I have the chance to audition the Abyss again, I will try it with a different amp. Maybe with its speaker power amp relative, the SCA-7511 Mk3 or another one for that matter.


 
  Yes, I assumed that Mk3 was j


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





citadel said:


> Yes, I assumed that Mk3 was j


 

 Sorry..I meant to write: Yes I assumed that Mk3 was just a revision maybe...Who knows.


----------



## forbigger

>>I am a huge fan of the Abyss. Nothing to be ashamed about here. Some people cant admit they are
  >>stax (or any other make/model) fanboys and pretend they are absolutely objective in their assessment.
   
  citadel - i strongly suggest you bring this beef somewhere else or pm the aforementioned person directly.......


----------



## citadel

So the remarks that I replied to are not to be mentioned? I suggest you or anyone else not post such personally directed messages. It's downright hypocritical. All this because I had suspicions that the amp that was used may not be technically adequate for driving the Abyss..


----------



## forbigger

downright hypocritical?? how about you ranting about stax fanboy/fangirl thing??
   
  what qualifies you to say that this / that amp not adequate for driving abyss? you an engineer? amp builder? making such unwarranted claims without even hearing ? just because some guys thing that you're favorite headphone is not as stellar as 009 and you jump out and accused the amp is not adequate? do you aware that power is not everything needed to drive a headphone? have you heard about slew rate??
   
  nobody mind anyone becoming fanboy, but when that fanboy got blinded and start crossing the line then it becomes eyesore
   
  the guy you referred to didn't not even reply to your rant anymore......guess you're in his ignore list as much as yours in mine


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





forbigger said:


> what qualifies you to say that this / that amp not adequate for driving abyss? you an engineer? amp builder? making such unwarranted claims without even hearing ? just because some guys thing that you're favorite headphone is not as stellar as 009 and you jump out and accused the amp is not adequate? do you aware that power is not everything needed to drive a headphone? have you heard about slew rate??


 
   
  I can tell you that I have read many recommendations on how to drive the HE6, most of which state that the headphones need around 5W at 40-50ohms to not sound bright. From my own limited personal experience, I would have to agree with this.
   
  I dont know if you own a pair of HE6's, but please read some threads regarding this. As for the slew rate, that is fair enough. However, are you saying that something that outputs less than half the "recommended" output can make up for it in the slew rate (this is a serious question btw, I am not an engineer and do not have proficient technical knowledge in this area)?
   
   
  Can we all agree to drop any attacks (of all forms)? Most of mine have been in retaliation to comments made by a particular user who just blindly badmouthed the Abyss (saying its only good at bass) and criticised it for its looks and price. This 'fanboy' comment I made was done because I got quite angry with such unfair criticisms. It felt sabotagical since I got the impression that such posters didnt own or demo them substantially. I also found some posts directed a Joe a tad bit disrespectful. I would be grateful (liking the Abyss or not) if he explained the design process and decisions.
   
   
  I dont think I deserved the "crossing the line fanboy" comment from inferring my own and other people's experiences with the HE6 to the Abyss. This is purely an observational comment. I did say I *trusted* the reviewers feedback with regards to this amp.
   
   
  Now, I never personally said I thought Stax was not as good. I merely rebutted some ill conceived comments. I may love Stax headphones as much or even more than this Abyss if I demoed them. Please, if you are a Stax fan, dont take my earlier comments as anti-Stax, but rather "In defense of the Abyss and proper evaluating".
   
  Ladies and gentlemen, I apologise to you all if my comments and it's responses have dominated this thread. Again, my main objective was to rebutt some ill-focused comments towards the Abyss. The emphasis should be moreso on its sound signature (and analysis, measurements) rather than the price/looks (Again,I love the looks of the headphone) or claiming it has the intention to "wipe away" competitors like Stax, Sennheiser and Audeze..


----------



## etherlite

Maybe you should accept that abyss is still not the perfect headphone for everyone. Any other comments you made are just being defensive, and posting unreliable reviews like ones from cnet are not helping you either.
   
  And blaming amps, while on some occasions might be the case, it's completely wrong for you to blame bakoon, it's an undeniably strong and good amp, and I already tried pairing it with abyss
   
  It is a big leap from JPS lab to release a headphone with a big price margin compared to the other planar headphone. This is making other people taking stance against it. while the STAX lovers doesn't like the character of the sound, the planar lovers won't say much because of the price. And other people expecting something really perfect from the price tag will be disappointed.
   
  p.s. saying "in defense of the abyss" won't help you getting your credibility back. Just reminds me of a person from my previous forum, defending his LCD-2 (he even said his LCD-2 is "special") and beta22 like there is no tomorrow


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> Maybe you should accept that abyss is still not the perfect headphone for everyone. Any other comments you made are just being defensive, and posting unreliable reviews like ones from cnet are not helping you either.


 
   
  I and others posted a number of other review. Also, what is soo wrong with his review?
   
   
  Quote: 





> And blaming amps, while on some occasions might be the case, it's completely wrong for you to blame bakoon, it's an undeniably strong and good amp, and I already tried pairing it with abyss


 

 Im not "blaming" the amp. I simply questioned it being the best pairing for the headphone because I have never heard anyone else try to pair this with the Abyss.
   
   
  Quote: 





> It is a big leap from JPS lab to release a headphone with a big price margin compared to the other planar headphone. This is making other people taking stance against it. while the STAX lovers doesn't like the character of the sound, the planar lovers won't say much because of the price. And other people expecting something really perfect from the price tag will be disappointed.


 
   
  Your opinion, as stated before. We already on to the price thing again. Quite ridiculous.
   
  Quote: 





> p.s. saying "in defense of the abyss" won't help you getting your credibility back. Just reminds me of a person from my previous forum, defending his LCD-2 (he even said his LCD-2 is "special") and beta22 like there is no tomorrow


 
   
  LCD-2 is special btw. Is it wrong for people to express their admiration for a nice pair of cans?
  The credibility comment is quite immature.
   
  Did I ever say these are the best headphones ever btw? Never once. I have pointed to a few reviews that do say this, though


----------



## forbigger

Quote:


> >>I dont know if you own a pair of HE6's, but please read some threads regarding this. As for the slew rate, that is fair enough. However, are you >>saying that something that outputs less than half the "recommended" output can make up for it in the slew rate (this is a serious question >>btw, I am not an engineer and do not have proficient technical knowledge in this area)?
> 
> I dont own HE-6.....and me not engineer too. So cannot answer you questions
> 
> ...


----------



## etherlite

Quote: 





citadel said:


> I and others posted a number of other review. Also, what is soo wrong with his review?
> 
> Im not "blaming" the amp. I simply questioned it being the best pairing for the headphone because I have never heard anyone else try to pair this with the Abyss.
> 
> ...


 
  Read again what defqon wrote about cnet's review, I'm not explaining any further than that
   
  I'm more surprised by Joe telling Tyll to use burson conductor to review the abyss rather than using bakoon, yet the conductor delivers.
   
  I don't think you can separate price issues with abyss though, I imagine dozens of people would buy the abyss if the price is similar or lower than LCD-3
   
  About LCD-2, yes, I own and love LCD-2 as well, but he said his LCD-2 is better than any other LCD-2 in the world. Tried his LCD-2, can't find any difference lol
   
  You never said it directly, but the stance you're taking against SR-009 implicitly saying that


----------



## forbigger

I would really be itching to demo the abyss. I've said in my previous post, after tyll review, I'm intrigued by this headphone. Owning stats have its own headache. Dust, imbalance issue, etc. so far i feel advantages in SQ still merits the disadvantages. But if an easier maintenance headphone exists and better SQ than the 009, why not......I personally feel TH900 is one of the dynamic i can live with if stats didnt exists...and this abyss is better than th900, makes me even more curious


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





> Read again what defqon wrote about cnet's review, I'm not explaining any further than that


 
   
  If that is the reviewer's honest opinion and taste, then who are we to criticise? He did not make any outrageous claims about the Abyss versus the sr-009 imo. Tyll and others have backed his positive points for the Abyss. It's obvious that these cans are his cup of tea. Like others have said, those you have a strong affinity for the Stax signature might not necessarily like these cans. It's quite obvious that the CNET review loves planar dynamics (since he loves his LCD3). To quote him:
   
  "The AB-1266's dynamic range capabilities radically advance the state of the art, the $5,200 Stax SR 009 headphone may be the equal of the AB-1266's transparency and sound staging, but the SR 009's dynamic kicks and bass oomph aren't remotely in the AB-1266's league."
  I find this comment fair (it's a subjective assessment). In fact, he gave the Sr-009 more credit than some, with regards to sound staging. Many would say the Abyss has a better sound stage. He makes no mention of highs, so again, one can assume he is more of a planar dynamic man.
   
  Quote: 





etherlite said:


> I'm more surprised by Joe telling Tyll to use burson conductor to review the abyss rather than using bakoon, yet the conductor delivers.
> ....


 
   
  Im a little surprised too. Tyll should have use the LAu IMO. However, any review he does would be much appreciated. I still wonder what amps Joe used during R&D.
   
  Quote: 





> I don't think you can separate price issues with abyss though, I imagine dozens of people would buy the abyss if the price is similar or lower than LCD-3


 
   
  Again, I would have to make the same argument with Stax. Sorry, but the HD800 is soo damn good for the price ($1499). In the other Abyss thread, someone estimated that the cables that come with the cans may be close to $3000 or some similar figure.
   
   
  Quote: 





> You never said it directly, but the stance you're taking against SR-009 implicitly saying that


 
   
  Again, I just highlight contrary opinions to people who think these headphones are either over-priced or a "wanna-be" summit-fi can.


----------



## Darkbeat

For what it's worth, I much prefered the sound of the Stax SR-009 on a lowly amp like the SRM-323s than the Abyss on a Mjolnir. I can live with slightly less bass impact, but I can't live with unrestrained, strident treble energy (see: distortion) and a mid-fi midrange on a $5.5k headphone. Your mileage may vary though.


----------



## etherlite

Quote: 





citadel said:


> If that is the reviewer's *honest opinion* and taste, then who are we to criticise? He did not make any outrageous claims about the Abyss versus the sr-009 imo. Tyll and others have backed his positive points for the Abyss. It's obvious that these cans are his cup of tea. Like others have said, those you have a strong affinity for the Stax signature might not necessarily like these cans. It's quite obvious that the CNET review loves planar dynamics (since he loves his LCD3).


 
  The thing is, the part I bold is highly questionable from him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I agree on the part that Tyll should use LAu, the results must be even better, but Joe might want to make people think that we don't need such amazing amp to drive abyss
   


citadel said:


> Again, I would have to make the same argument with Stax. Sorry, but the HD800 is soo damn good for the price ($1499). In the other Abyss thread, someone estimated that the cables that come with the cans may be close to $3000 or some similar figure.


 

  Agree again on this part, SR-009 is good, but I also question whether the difference made is worth the price. Tried 009 once, albeit without BHSE, but I don't really want it. As forbigger said, the maintenance is way too much hassle for me
   
  Btw, 3000$ cable is way too much for me to comprehend lol
   
  And lastly, I do believe abyss is a summit-fi cans, but it is still not perfect in terms of SQ (The treble is so-so IMO), if you're willing to discuss about the aesthetic part, yes, it also looks ugly, but people's preferences are different and the only headphone which form and color I love are only TH900 and HD800, so I'll refrain from talking about this any further


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





darkbeat said:


> For what it's worth, I much prefered the sound of the Stax SR-009 on a lowly amp like the SRM-323s than the Abyss on a Mjolnir. I can live with slightly less bass impact, but I can't live with unrestrained, strident treble energy (see: distortion) and a mid-fi midrange on a $5.5k headphone. Your mileage may vary though.


 
  I guess you wont like the HD800s treble then (or even Th900 perhaps). That's fine. Here is how Purrin rates the treble:
   


> Overall treble (6k to 20k) balance:
> HD800 brightest
> TH900 slightly bright
> Abyss just right
> LCD3 very laid-back


 
   
  Some regard the Schiit Mjolnir to be a pretty bright amp. If true, this might not be a good pairing (as you have perhaps observed).


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> I agree on the part that Tyll should use LAu, the results must be even better, but Joe might want to make people think that we don't need such amazing amp to drive abyss


 
  This is an interesting idea.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The last portion of Tyll's review was subjective comparisons to the best of the best headphone set-ups and there was a bit of a time constraint. While I would have loved to have a LAu sent his way, the one and only preproduction unit available at the time was unfortunately on a Fed Ex truck headed toward a meet. Tyll was using the EF-6 and I felt he could use some contrast. The Burson Conductor has a tonal balance that better matches the AB-1266, has the power to drive them, and was available to ship to Tyll for the next day, so it was done.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





joe skubinski said:


> The last portion of Tyll's review was subjective comparisons to the best of the best headphone set-ups and there was a bit of a time constraint. While I would have loved to have a LAu sent his way, the one and only preproduction unit available at the time was unfortunately on a Fed Ex truck headed toward a meet. Tyll was using the EF-6 and I felt he could use some contrast. The Burson Conductor has a tonal balance that better matches the AB-1266, has the power to drive them, and was available to ship to Tyll for the next day, so it was done.


 
  Thanks for the explanation Joe.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





joe skubinski said:


> The last portion of Tyll's review was subjective comparisons to the best of the best headphone set-ups and there was a bit of a time constraint. While I would have loved to have a LAu sent his way, the one and only preproduction unit available at the time was unfortunately on a Fed Ex truck headed toward a meet. Tyll was using the EF-6 and I felt he could use some contrast. The Burson Conductor has a tonal balance that better matches the AB-1266, has the power to drive them, and was available to ship to Tyll for the next day, so it was done.


 
   
  I hear my Abyss will get to me next week along with an LAu, so I'll be able to try it, unfortunately I don't have a proper DAC so I'll have to see how it goes. Can't wait!


----------



## 13713

Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> I hear my Abyss will get to me next week along with an LAu, so I'll be able to try it, unfortunately I don't have a proper DAC so I'll have to see how it goes. Can't wait!


 
  I can't wait to hear your review on the setup once you have given it a good test drive. There are a lot of people that like the Abyss and even more that seem to want to see it fail but I am curious to give it a listen hopefully at a meet sometime soon.


----------



## business_jj

I just had a chance to listen to Abyss AB-1266 seriously today,,

 Sources are Weiss MAN301 + Weiss MEDEA+
 Dynamic amp is Bryston BHA-1
 Electrostatic amp is STAX SRM-007tII

 Headphones; Sennheiser HD800, Fostex TH900, Audeze LCD3, Beyerdynamic T1, Abyss AB-1266 and STAX SR-009
   
  If you think SR-009 is worth buying as $5,250 then AB-1266 is also worth buying as well. IMHO, AB-1266 is on par with SR-009 in term of overall sound quality and even better in some area such as sound stage and details. But I still prefer mid and smoothness of 009 as well as comfortable. 

 Comparing to other dynamic/planar magnetic headphone is like day and night. Abyss is far better than all of them in every segment.
   
  Note that you need good enough power headphone amp for driving Abyss otherwise the sound quality will be awful. I initially paired it with Cary HH-1 hybrid amp which I think it's the most matched for HD800 for amp in this price range but it was completely failed with Abyss. Then I switched to Bryston BHA-1 and it was much better but even with Bryston you need to pair it in fully balanced mode because when I connected to Bryston using RCA input, sound quality drop down like 30% compared to XLR input. Bass was not controlled at all, mid was very grainy, focus and instrument separation are also not as good as XLR input.

 P.S. This Abyss AB-1266 was burn in only less than 50 hours.


----------



## zachchen1996

business_jj said:


> I just had a chance to listen to Abyss AB-1266 seriously today,,
> 
> 
> Sources are Weiss MAN301 + Weiss MEDEA+
> ...




I thought stax amps such as the SRM-007tII were generally known to be insufficient in bringing out the best in the 009? And that the ones that are "worthy of the 009" are the LL, BHSE, etc. ? Tyll, in his electrostatic amp comparison article also said that the stax amps were not enough to bring out the best in the 009. Also, the 009 can be bought on price japan for 3,400$ which would make the 009 $2100 cheaper than the abyss.


----------



## citadel

In Australia, the Stax sr-009 is actually more expensive than the Abyss by $300 (it was $1200 more at the time I paid for my Abyss, I would have also had to invest in an amp, another $2000 at least). I have no idea why. We get screwed here with a lot of tech gadgets. Also, from memory, the Stax website said something warranty issues if bought from non authorised dealers.

Personally, I would take the risk if others have had good experiences from ordering overseas. Also, with such a high end product, I'm assuming warranty claims would be minimal.


----------



## jackskelly

Quote: 





citadel said:


> In Australia, the Stax sr-009 is actually more expensive than the Abyss by $300 (it was $1200 more at the time I paid for my Abyss, I would have also had to invest in an amp, another $2000 at least). I have no idea why. We get screwed here with a lot of tech gadgets. Also, from memory, the Stax website said something warranty issues if bought from non authorised dealers.
> 
> Personally, I would take the risk if others have had good experiences from ordering overseas. Also, with such a high end product, I'm assuming warranty claims would be minimal.


 
   
  I'm very interested in hearing/owning the Abyss, but I really can't right now, having recently bought an SR-009 and BHSE on order. My wallet is still recovering. By what it seems from the initial impressions, the Abyss might be better for more bass-heavy, modern music, while the SR-009 is better for acoustic music. I still need to hear the Orpheus system...


----------



## Audio Jester

jackskelly said:


> I'm very interested in hearing/owning the Abyss, but I really can't right now, having recently bought an SR-009 and BHSE on order. My wallet is still recovering. By what it seems from the initial impressions, the Abyss might be better for more bass-heavy, modern music, while the SR-009 is better for acoustic music. I still need to hear the Orpheus system...




Know how you feel, I am in the same position. For the moment my 009 is an expensive ornament. Lol.


----------



## business_jj

Quote: 





zachchen1996 said:


> I thought stax amps such as the SRM-007tII were generally known to be insufficient in bringing out the best in the 009? And that the ones that are "worthy of the 009" are the LL, BHSE, etc. ? Tyll, in his electrostatic amp comparison article also said that the stax amps were not enough to bring out the best in the 009. Also, the 009 can be bought on price japan for 3,400$ which would make the 009 $2100 cheaper than the abyss.


 
  This SRM-007tII is quite special because I bypassed fuse and upgraded tubes. I compared this one to Woo WES max upgraded and I didn't feel it was lack of the power at all. It was even better in bass response and mid but narrow soundstage and less refinements.

 Anyway, I have been considering to get LLMK2 soon. Also want to get LAu for Abyss but it's quite too expensive for me by now.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





business_jj said:


> I just had a chance to listen to Abyss AB-1266 seriously today,,
> 
> Sources are Weiss MAN301 + Weiss MEDEA+
> Dynamic amp is Bryston BHA-1
> ...


 
   
  That's very interesting about the BHA-1.  While I like it very much with both LCDs.  The BHA-1 with the HE-6 was a no go for me.  This is telling me the AB does not scale as high as the HE-6.  Again, I would like to hear both on a amp that's considered good for the HE-6.


----------



## x838nwy

Reading all your impressions have been very informative. But if I may venture a suggestion; JPS should send someone with a Mal Valve head amp 3 to do a 009 vs abyss comparison as it apparently can drive both types of headphones. I don't know if it will have "enough" power to drive the abyss but at least we'd be getting what can be considered as the same sound signature from the amp. Otherwise we'd be comparing a 009+amp A and an abyss on amp B always and it will never end.


----------



## purrin

It's not as easy as getting the same sound signature by using a the "same" amp and comparing. The circuitry of the MV3 for the 'stat output is different from the dynamic driver output. The principle of driving 'stats is different from that of dynamic drivers. The reality of the situation is that if you are OCD enough, it really doesn't never end because there in fact are so many combinations.
   
  The Mal Head Valve would be a poor match for the Abyss because it's a tube OTL (output Z is no less than 8 according to the specs.) I've heard the Abyss on a variety of amps and felt that it needs lower output Z and good power capacity to shine. This usually means solid-state. The only tube amp I've heard that drove the Abyss well was an EC prototype with doubled 45 tubes on the output.
   
  Ultimately it's about synergy and personal preferences. Keeping in mind that I had a T2DIY, I still did not think the SR-009 was "worth it". And I've heard the SR-009 on a 323, 727, Aristaeus, BHSE, KGSS, KGSSHV, LL, and Electra.


----------



## kiertijai

_Reading all your impressions have been very informative. But if I may venture a suggestion; JPS should send someone with a Mal Valve head amp 3 to do a 009 vs abyss comparison as it apparently can drive both types of headphones. I don't know if it will have "enough" power to drive the abyss but at least we'd be getting what can be considered as the same sound signature from the amp. Otherwise we'd be comparing a 009+amp A and an abyss on amp B always and it will never end_
_      _I may have a chance to do that comparison   , hopefully in 2 weeks as Mal Valve Three will be here  with me.   There is at least one JPS Abyss here in Thailand.
         Purrin suggested that it might not be a good match but Dieter has tested and confirmed to me that it has more than enough power to do so, matching is another problem though.
         If not successful I will try the Abyss with  Balancing Act or EAR HP4 (using preamplifier with gain) or balanced beta 22 (using loopout function).  Hope that one of them can do a good job here
        SR009, HE90, SR Omega, O2 I,II   may be included.  I also have the HE90-Stax adapter specially made by Wiktor and I have confirmed with Dieter from Mal Valve
  that it is safe to use with HE90 concerning the voltage bias.   The Malvalve three also have enough power to drive HE6 as well AKG K1000 so we will see.  I don't know it is a good
  match for the dynamic headphones but will try with the MDR R10, Qualia, LCD3, Fostex TH900 
         Sorry , I don't think the Malvalve three can drive the takeT or the new Jecklin without their transformer or power supply and the Malvalve three does not have the speaker post.
  However I can compare the Abyss with both takeT, new Jecklin Float (but not Stax, HE90)  using my  speaker amplifer (ZOTL ZH230).  It should be able to test in the same setup and at
  the same time between takeT vs Abyss, new Jecklin with Abyss, but not all three at the same time or new Jecklin vs takeT
         DIY T2 is a good match for SR009 although the HE90 is better with this combo  but it is not a direct comparison with the same amplifier.  The DIY T2 in Thailand has HE90
  and Stax socket.  HE90 with DIY T2 is not as good as the HE90 + Aristaeus (with Genelex B759 as drivers).


----------



## purrin

H Kiertijai - haven't seen you in a while!
   
  I didn't like the Abyss from the ECBA, but I've never felt the ECBA was an optimal match for power hungry orthos in the first place. Good perhaps, but not optimal. Your best bet is the balanced beta 22. For the record, I do prefer the HE90 (from a DIY T2, the HEV90, or the Aristaeus) over the Abyss. Too bad Sennheiser doesn't make those anymore.


----------



## kiertijai

I_ didn't like the Abyss from the ECBA, but I've never felt the ECBA was an optimal match for power hungry orthos in the first place_
_     _I think the same as you.  I think ECBA may have less driving power than the ZDT.  That's the reason why I have to use the
  preamplifier which has 17dB gain but I don't know how much it will help.   I will try balanced beta 22 first.
   
_For the record, I do prefer the HE90 (from a DIY T2, the HEV90, or the Aristaeus) over the Abyss   _
_      _I hope so even we have to test that from the setup that may be optimal or similar for both  If the Abyss is better
  it is not very good for  me  because my HE90 value will be lower while there may be more people getting
  the Abyss which I don't own now and it will cost me another fortune to do that.  You can see that there may be some
  bias here but I will try to be professional.


----------



## kiertijai

@Purrin Thanks  I think I have been hit by midlife crisis
   
      I_ didn't like the Abyss from the ECBA, but I've never felt the ECBA was an optimal match for power hungry orthos in the first place_
_     _I think the same.  I think ECBA may have even less driving power than the ZDT.  That's the reason why I have to use the
  preamplifier which has 17dB gain but I don't know how much it will help.   I will try balanced beta 22 first.
   
_For the record, I do prefer the HE90 (from a DIY T2, the HEV90, or the Aristaeus) over the Abyss   _
_      _I hope so even we have to test that from the setup that may be optimal or similar for both  If the Abyss is better
  it is not very good for  me  because my HE90 value will be lower while there may be more people getting
  the Abyss which I don't own now and it will cost me another fortune to do that.  You can see that there may be some
  bias here but I will try to be professional.


----------



## x838nwy

Quote: 





purrin said:


> It's not as easy as getting the same sound signature by using a the "same" amp and comparing. The circuitry of the MV3 for the 'stat output is different from the dynamic driver output. The principle of driving 'stats is different from that of dynamic drivers. The reality of the situation is that if you are OCD enough, it really doesn't never end because there in fact are so many combinations.
> 
> The Mal Head Valve would be a poor match for the Abyss because it's a tube OTL (output Z is no less than 8 according to the specs.) I've heard the Abyss on a variety of amps and felt that it needs lower output Z and good power capacity to shine. This usually means solid-state. The only tube amp I've heard that drove the Abyss well was an EC prototype with doubled 45 tubes on the output.
> 
> Ultimately it's about synergy and personal preferences. Keeping in mind that I had a T2DIY, I still did not think the SR-009 was "worth it". And I've heard the SR-009 on a 323, 727, Aristaeus, BHSE, KGSS, KGSSHV, LL, and Electra.


 
   
  Output stages aside, one hopes that the sound characteristics from both would have been similarly tuned. I think it's the closest we'll get to comparing an electrostat to another type of driver technology.
   
  I think discussions about the abyss can only be sensibly done in relation to the LCD-3. When comparing headphones to Stax, TakeT or Jecklin's there's always the question of all the equipment in the chain before it gets to the ears which makes it an internet fight waiting to happen.
   
  I think the Abyss has one thing going for it which is the ability to be used with your current headphone amp(s) - if I were to buy them, this would be one thing it has over Stax 009's.
   
  p.s. I truly hope the Abyss does not give Audeze ideas for an even more expensive model... might be interesting to see what they can do if the sensitivity and price are less limiting...


----------



## SoupRKnowva

To level the paying field for amps you could always use a BHSE and a SuSy Dynahi for the 009s and the Abyss respectively, that's probably about as close as you could get for amps designed to "sound the same" while arguably being some of the best amps for each as well


----------



## purrin

Or an LAu and LL2 respectively for Abyss and SR-009. Or an EC445 and Electra.
   
  I've had time with all of these aforementioned combinations. It really doesn't change any of the characteristics between the Abyss and SR-009 in relation to each other. Ultimately it doesn't matter to me because I've had significant time to experiment and get the sound most suited to my preferences with both transducers. More in fact with the SR-009 since my time with the Abyss was only about a week.
   
  I guess what I'm saying is no amp in existence is going to make the SR-009 slam low like the Abyss. Or make the Abyss's treble as smooth as the SR-009. Or the SR-009 present depth like the Abyss. Or the Abyss have the "get-out-of-the-way" quality of the SR-009.


----------



## Radio_head

Remember, you're not getting a "wire-with-gain" with the Cavalli or Eddie Current amps.  So, two coloured amps would have to have the same colouration to be comparable, and that coloration may affect different headphones differently.  The Susy Dynahi/BHSE amps on the other hand are so transparent to source that they know what Bach was thinking when composing his preludes or #1 hit "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet."  This "lack" of sound would allow the respective headphones to play _as intended_ rather than as some amp designer _thinks_ they should sound.  I want my window into the soul of music to be clear, not stained glass.


----------



## n3rdling

Quote: 





purrin said:


> Or an LAu and LL2 respectively for Abyss and SR-009. Or an EC445 and Electra.
> 
> I've had time with all of these aforementioned combinations. It really doesn't change any of the characteristics between the Abyss and SR-009 in relation to each other. Ultimately it doesn't matter to me because I've had significant time to experiment and get the sound most suited to my preferences with both transducers. More in fact with the SR-009 since my time with the Abyss was only about a week.
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is no amp in existence is going to make the SR-009 slam low like the Abyss. Or make the Abyss's treble as smooth as the SR-009. Or the SR-009 present depth like the Abyss. Or the Abyss have the "get-out-of-the-way" quality of the SR-009.


 
  Exactly.


----------



## rgs9200m

Is the Abyss somewhat of an HE-6 situation, with a lot of power needed?
  Or does the Abyss need an amp that handles high impedance phones well?


----------



## n3rdling

The Abyss isn't a high impedance headphone and it's an ortho so the load is purely resistive.  Impedance is something like 50 Ohm.  It is however somewhat inefficient, so it does need an amp with a bit more voltage swing than most other headphones do.  If by "HE-6 situation" you mean the insistence of some people that you need 90s Krell monoblocks to drive them to their "potential" then I'd suggest not listening at 134 dB


----------



## wink

Quote:RadioGaga 





> Remember, you're not getting a "wire-with-gain" with the Cavalli or Eddie Current amps.  So, two coloured amps would have to have the same colouration to be comparable, and that coloration may affect different headphones differently.  The Susy Dynahi/BHSE amps on the other hand are so transparent to source that they know what Bach was thinking when composing his preludes or #1 hit "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet."  This "lack" of sound would allow the respective headphones to play _as intended_ rather than as some amp designer _thinks_ they should sound.  I want my window into the soul of music to be clear, not stained glass.


 
  100% true....


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> Is the Abyss somewhat of an HE-6 situation, with a lot of power needed?
> Or does the Abyss need an amp that handles high impedance phones well?


 
   
  In my experience, the Abyss was easier to drive than the HE-6 and even other HFM orthos down to the HE-500. Most of the HFM orthos seems to need gigantuous power for them to sort of "snap-into-shape" and not sound flaccid. I actually prefer my HE-500s from a Crest CA2 pro power amp to any other headphone amp I've tried. The Abyss on the other hand was driven fine from the LAu or Mjolnir. But then again, I've done crazy stuff like powering my speakers from the LAu or Mjolnir.


----------



## kiertijai

I guess what I'm saying is no amp in existence is going to make the SR-009 slam low like the Abyss. Or make the Abyss's treble as smooth as the SR-009. Or the SR-009 present depth like the Abyss. Or the Abyss have the "get-out-of-the-way" quality of the SR-009.
      I don't know whether the tube rolling of the Mal Valve Three can modify that.  I have email to ask Dieter about how to tone down the frequency peak in the treble of the Abyss
      The tubes used are 2xECC81's, 4xEF184's and 4 6V6's
      I think tube rolling of ECC81 may do part the job but am waiting Dieter's comment although I know that most amplifier builders
  do not like their amplifier to have tube rolling.


----------



## AnakChan

kiertijai said:


> However I can compare the *Abyss with both takeT, new Jecklin Float* using my speaker amplifer (ZOTL ZH230). It should be able to test in the same setup and at the same time between *takeT vs Abyss, new Jecklin with Abyss*, but not all three at the same time or new Jecklin vs takeT



 
 I would be very keen to see the results of this. Please do feel free to share your impressions.


----------



## x838nwy

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> Remember, you're not getting a "wire-with-gain" with the Cavalli or Eddie Current amps.  So, two coloured amps would have to have the same colouration to be comparable, and that coloration may affect different headphones differently.  The Susy Dynahi/BHSE amps on the other hand are so transparent to source that they know what Bach was thinking when composing his preludes or #1 hit "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet."  This "lack" of sound would allow the respective headphones to play _as intended_ rather than as some amp designer _thinks_ they should sound.  I want my window into the soul of music to be clear, not stained glass.


 
  With no intention to troll, could you please elaborate on the coloration(s) on the Eddie Current and/or the Cavalli? I have no experience with these two and have always considered them to be totl and as such would have thought they'd be transparent with a capital T?? How would you rate them against the GS-X (mkII)?


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





purrin said:


> I guess what I'm saying is no amp in existence is going to make the SR-009 slam low like the Abyss. Or make the Abyss's treble as smooth as the SR-009. Or the SR-009 present depth like the Abyss. Or the Abyss have the "get-out-of-the-way" quality of the SR-009.


 
   
  It's as though you need a headphone with multiple drivers (i.e., like speakers or IEMs) to get the most of both worlds.


----------



## dBel84

Quote: 





x838nwy said:


> With no intention to troll, could you please elaborate on the coloration(s) on the Eddie Current and/or the Cavalli? I have no experience with these two and have always considered them to be totl and as such would have thought they'd be transparent with a capital T?? How would you rate them against the GS-X (mkII)?


 
  sarcasm doesn't portray well , Radio_head was merely commenting on a myth that people perpetuate.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

I've used the Cavalli Liquid Fire, Liquid Glass, and Liquid Gold amplifiers over the course of the last year with our headphones. Cavalli has an excellent grasp of overall bottom on up balance and neutrality, and this stays true throughout their lines.


----------



## kiertijai

_I've used the Cavalli Liquid Fire, Liquid Glass, and Liquid Gold amplifiers over the course of the last year with our headphones. Cavalli has an excellent grasp of overall bottom on up balance and neutrality, and this stays true throughout their lines._
_    _Have you tried with the Mal Valve Three, Balancing Act or EAR HP4? 
      I have heard some comment that the treble may be little harsh in certain frequency, if there is what is your suggestion?


----------



## kiertijai

_How many JPS Abyss in Thailand now?_
_How can I get the audition?  _


----------



## x838nwy

kiertijai said:


> _How many JPS Abyss in Thailand now?_
> _How can I get the audition? _




I believe there are currently 2. One at Jet Live audio, the other at Jaben. The third will be at Munkong soon.


----------



## kiertijai

Thanks, I will go for the audtion at Munkong. Will bring Mal Valve Three , SR009, HE90, R10 They already have LCD3, HD800 or other headphones as well as Bakoon, Burson Conductor there


----------



## x838nwy

kiertijai said:


> Thanks, I will go for the audtion at Munkong. Will bring Mal Valve Three , SR009, HE90, R10 They already have LCD3, HD800 or other headphones as well as Bakoon, Burson Conductor there




Looking forward to your findings. Bakoon + Abyss combo is so 2013. (Btw, the Meridian music server they have at their flagship store is sublime.)

Oh, and pics please  it'd head-fi porn.


----------



## business_jj

Again, my friend borrowed my Abyss to compare to his headphone collection.

 He affirmed my opinion that other dynamic/planar headphones are in different league, can't compare to quality of Abyss and SR-009 at all even they were upgraded to very expensive cables .

 The sources are AURALiC VEGA DAC and Ayre QB9 DSD. He used Leben CS600 as amplifier for electrostatic headphone via electrostatic converter and using adapter for dynamic headphone to connect Abyss to binding post of CS600 for better power.  This means this comparison is quite fair using the same amplifier.
   
  Bass of Abyss is superb, bested all the headphone in the market substantially. This can be called perfect bass, deep, rich, compact, detailed and it's placed in another layer than mid. As well as depth that is second to none, far better than king of sound stage headphone like HD800, SR-009 or even HE-90 (as recalled memory). Tonal balance is very good and quite natural sound signature using tube amplifier. My opinion is if it's paired with solid state amp (I tested with BHA-1) it's a little bit too bright. Details and clarity of SR-009 are still better than Abyss.
   
  The cons of Abyss for him is look and comfortable. He doesn't like external design of Abyss at all. And actually it's quite comfortable headphone even though it's very heavy but still can't against SR-009, HD800 or Fostex TH-900 in term of this.


----------



## zachchen1996

business_jj said:


> Again, my friend borrowed my Abyss to compare to his headphone collection.
> 
> 
> He affirmed my opinion that other dynamic/planar headphones are in different league, can't compare to quality of Abyss and SR-009 at all even they were upgraded to very expensive cables .
> ...




Wow this is probably the most informative posts I've seen on the abyss. On vocals, do you prefer the 009 or abyss? Thanks.


----------



## kiertijai

_The sources are AURALiC VEGA DAC and Ayre QB9 DSD. *He used Leben CS600 as amplifier for electrostatic headphone via electrostatic converter *and using adapter for dynamic headphone to connect Abyss to binding post of CS600 for better power.  This means this comparison is quite fair using the same amplifier._
_    _  This may not be the optimal setup for Stax or HE90.   The BoyBee used can not be compared with the dedicated Stax amplifier e.g. 007t
  not to mention the DIY T2 that is in Thailand or even the HE90 with Aristaeus combo.
   
         How's about the treble with the Leben CS600?


----------



## kiertijai

_The sources are AURALiC VEGA DAC and Ayre QB9 DSD. *He used Leben CS600 as amplifier for electrostatic headphone via electrostatic converter *and using adapter for dynamic headphone to connect Abyss to binding post of CS600 for better power.  This means this comparison is quite fair using the same amplifier._
_    _  This may not be the optimal setup for Stax or HE90.   The BoyBee used can not be compared with the dedicated Stax amplifier e.g. 007t
  not to mention the DIY T2 that is in Thailand or even the HE90 with Aristaeus combo.


----------



## business_jj

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> _The sources are AURALiC VEGA DAC and Ayre QB9 DSD. *He used Leben CS600 as amplifier for electrostatic headphone via electrostatic converter *and using adapter for dynamic headphone to connect Abyss to binding post of CS600 for better power.  This means this comparison is quite fair using the same amplifier._
> _    _  This may not be the optimal setup for Stax or HE90.   The BoyBee used can not be compared with the dedicated Stax amplifier e.g. 007t
> not to mention the DIY T2 that is in Thailand or even the HE90 with Aristaeus combo.


 
   
  FYI, The owner had Stax SRM-007tII and compared to Leben CS600 using converter for few days. He said "it's like day and night". Leben CS600 is much much better than SRM-007tII in every aspect. Don't forget that LS600 is 3 times more expensive than SRM-007tII.


----------



## peeradonn

Dear all,
   
  I'm The one who tested Abyss with Leben last night. For your question about Abyss's Vocal, I think Abyss excels the 009 in many regards included Vocal.
   
  I feel the 009 Mid seems to be compressed more while Abyss Mid if full and rich. I think the only 2 things that 009 have the advantage is the transparency and comfort.
   
  I also agreed with Kiertijai that using Boybee as an adapter to drive 009 is not the optimum solution. But I think it's the fairest solution since Both headphone was driven by the same Amplifier.
   
  I will have a chance to test 009 on Woo WES Max upgraded today, I will compare with the Leben-Driven Solution and report back here soon.
   
  PS. I used to drive 009 with SRM007tII before I met Leben, after I realized that there was night and day difference between these two amps, I sell the 007tII without hesitation.


----------



## zachchen1996

peeradonn said:


> Dear all,
> 
> For your question about Abyss's Vocal, I think Abyss excels the 009 in many regards included Vocal.
> 
> I feel the 009 Mid seems to be compressed more while Abyss Mid if full and rich.




Is it possible that the abyss' "full and rich mids" are a coloration rather than being truly accurate and that the 009's mids are more "accurate" or something like that?


----------



## n3rdling

Price does not equal quality...the Leben is a pretty bad amp and using it to "power" Stax is not giving both headphones evenly matched amp quality.  You might as well power the Abyss with a Rudistor Corolian with step down transformers.  It is an expensive amp, after all.


----------



## kiertijai

_I will have a chance to test 009 on Woo WES Max upgraded today,_
   
       That will do SR009 justice.   I do think about Boybee, although is very good is the weak link in this setup even Leben is very good.
        Price is not the only deciding factor.
       
       IMO   soundstage and bass are the relative weak points of Stax
   
   
       @business_jj, Peeradonn   do you think the performance of JPS abyss justify its asking price?  comparing to a less expensive but
  also excellent, LCD3
   
       How's about its treble response?
   
  p.s.  I am not a great fan of SR009 I think it lacks excitement, life but I would like to know the performance of JPS abyss


----------



## peeradonn

I believe The Abyss's Mid is not colored and not push-forwarded like some Japanese headphone. The Abyss's mid is Natural, articulate and place right in the layer of the Vocal.
   
  The abyss sound signature is different from what I have heard before. It's like listen to the Near field speaker with a sub-woofer. The Bass and Mid and Treble is place in different layer.
   
  To be honest, even though I really don't like the Abyss's Look and feel but for the Sonic Quality wise, I decided to buy one!
   
   
  PS. Since the price of Abyss is Sky-High, I will sacrifice my 009 to get funds for buy Abyss. I'm sure that I will not regret doing this.


----------



## kiertijai

_Since the price of Abyss is Sky-High, *I will sacrifice my 009 to get funds for buy Abyss. I'm sure that I will not regret doing this*. _
_     _That explains everything.  Business_jj and Peeradonn are two elites in Thai head-fi and their opinions has a lot of impact
  on me.   However I don't have anything to sell right now  but I will try to audition and will start saving some fund.


----------



## En_R

business_jj said:


> Again, my friend borrowed my Abyss to compare to his headphone collection.
> 
> 
> He affirmed my opinion that other dynamic/planar headphones are in different league, can't compare to quality of Abyss and SR-009 at all even they were upgraded to very expensive cables .
> ...




This is one of the worst posts I have come across on head-fi.



> can't compare to quality of Abyss and SR-009 at all even they were *upgraded to very expensive cables*




The Abyss's cable is not complimentary. The cable's price accounts for a good chunk of the 5k+ pricetag. Also an expensive cable does not equate to a good cable.



> This means this comparison is quite fair using the same amplifier.




Nope. This shows that you have zero knowledge of even basic headphone/amp pairing.


----------



## x838nwy

kiertijai said:
			
		

> That explains everything.  Business_jj and Peeradonn are two elites in Thai head-fi and their opinions has a lot of impact
> on me.   However I don't have anything to sell right now  but I will try to audition and will start saving some fund.




That explains nothing. Some guy sells a piece of gear to buy another. Happens all the time.

I don't think we should take prices as indicators of quality. There's a lot of the design process involving what attributes to what portion of the costs. Plus there's a lot of decisions that goes into how each company prices its products. So more expensive is not a guarantee of being 'better'.

More to the point - and I think this is most relevant in this thread - when one gets to totl of anything it's NEVER the case of one being better than others. A Ferrari isn't 'better' than a Porsche or vice versa. In fact the more one goes up the pricing scale, the more one's personal tastes and preferences matter. I'm sure none of the totl headphones do anything dramatically worse or head and shoulder better than others in any particular way, rather each will have its own characteristics which each person will find more/less agreeable depending on the person. My point is that there's nobody more "elite" than you when it comes to choosing hifi gear for yourself. So I wouldn't advise forming opinions just cos someone with lots of expensive gear says so. They may be great guys and have probably listened to a lot of gear, but that really doesn't make their opinions any more or less correct in relation to what you or I will appreciate.

Trust your ears. They're the only hifi component you cannot change, so everything else better get their asses synergized!


----------



## peeradonn

X838nwy,

I totally agreed with you. There is no world's best headphone. but instead, there is only headphone you love best!


----------



## VisceriousZERO

I say, listen for yourselves before you say which is better than what...
   
  I'm open to trying everything, and I mean EVERYTHING. Then finding out which I like the most, then praising the hell out of it and getting bashed.
   
  (So if there's an HE90 somewhere there I'd like to try it too)


----------



## kiertijai

@En_R, x838nwy
      Those are valid points.  I am glad that we are all critical when getting new information.  We have to decide
  with our own judgment about new gears whether we should purchase or not purchase, not only the headphone itself
  but we also have to consider other factors that influence the decision including our setup, our music preferences, the
  sound signature that we like etc.
   
_That explains nothing. Some guy sells a piece of gear to buy another. Happens all the time._
        However everything for me is not the same as everything for you.  I have known both of them for some time
  to know who they are and how capable they are while you should not know anything about them.  So it is appropriate for
  you to say "That explains nothing"   while it is also correct for me to say "That explains everything".   I know that SR009 is his headphone
  and for him to decide to sell SR009 for JPS Abyss means (at least for me) that it must be really, really good.  I also said
  that they are elites in Thai head-fi. Of course there are many elites here. It is not because they owns a lot of expensive headphones  but because they are really good to discern between the better and the best headphone.  In fact I may have more headphones than they
  have but I am not that good.
       _That explains everything to me _means that I consider that the JPS Abyss has good chance to be in the top 5 of my
  headphone collection and I may consider purchasing it.  Because of its high price I questions about the incremental value
  comparing to other headphone,  I will make an audition with my own amplifier before making the decision.   
        In fact there are several concerns for me besides the price  e.g. _fit and comfort (it seems to me that it behaves like qualia_
_that we need a perfect fit to get the best sound), matching amplifier with good enough driving power (or speaker amplifier),_
_and the treble response.  _Of course before spending almost 6K  I need to hear it myself and I will use my judgement.


----------



## kiertijai

(_So if there's an HE90 somewhere there I'd like to try it too)_
_      _I will try that with the Mal Valve Three.   However it may not be the best setup for HE90.
   
        If Munkong is OK  I have to borrow his JPS Abyss to compare with HE90 + my Aristaeus amplifier. It is too precious
  and fragile to carry the Aristaeus amplifier around.
   
        If that's the case I can compare the JPS Abyss with new Jecklin, TakeT H2, HE6, AKG K1000 etc
  using the speaker post of my Zotl amplifier and preamplifier in almost identical setup and I can compare
  two different phones at the same time.  There are two concerns here : first the adapter cable for the JPS
  Abyss may be of inferior quality  (NBS vs Kimber Kable,  NBS does not make 4pin XLR adapter cable)
  Second is myself.  I can say which one I like but I should not be able to say which is better or what other people
  may like.


----------



## Radio_head

Quote: 





en_r said:


> This is one of the worst posts I have come across on head-fi.


 
  Why is it so terrible?  It is very similar to my comparison of the newest Ferrari and Lamborghini models.  The Ferrari drove like a charm and was better across the board on acceleration, speed, turn handling - everything.  The Lamborghini seemed to have no "grip" of the road, took forever to accelerate and longer to slow down.  The Ferrari was tested on the Autobahn while the Lamborghini was tested on the _very same road_ in a blizzard.
   
  business_jj sells the Abyss by the way.


----------



## arnaud

radio_head said:


> business_jj sells the Abyss by the way.




No matter how nice, unbiased, free of agenda, financially non-interested, non-political we all are, I think this kind of point is important to mention prior to posting comments / reviews...


----------



## x838nwy

kiertijai said:


> @En_R, x838nwy
> Those are valid points.  I am glad that we are all critical when getting new information.  We have to decide
> with our own judgment about new gears whether we should purchase or not purchase, not only the headphone itself
> but we also have to consider other factors that influence the decision including our setup, our music preferences, the
> ...




What the heck are these "elites" you're talking about? I live in Thailand and I must have totally missed these mythical creatures. Are they 'better' at hearing stuff than the rest of us or something? Is one considered an 'elite' if one can hear the difference cable elevators make, for example?

If it appears likely that these will be in your top 5 favorite headphones, that's simply an observation, or may be a realization. How does that qualify as an explanation? Anyway, language/grammar aside, please quote properly. Use [*quote] and [*/quote] tags (without the *'s) - it's getting harder and harder working out which bits are your and which are mine.


----------



## kiertijai

_What the heck are these "elites" you're talking about? I live in Thailand and I must have totally missed these mythical creatures. Are they 'better' at hearing stuff than the rest of us or something? Is one considered an 'elite' if one can hear the difference cable elevators make, for example?_
      I apologize that I know them but I don't know you.  Is that a crime?


----------



## kiertijai

_What the heck are these "elites" you're talking about? I live in Thailand and I must have totally missed these mythical creatures. Are they 'better' at hearing stuff than the rest of us or something? Is one considered an 'elite' if one can hear the difference cable elevators make, for example?_
      I apologize that I know them but I don't know you.  Is that a crime?


----------



## peeradonn

We're here to share our impression on the Abyss. Nothing more, Nothing less. It's not important for who we are, or what we do for living. since you can make decision by yourself that you'll buy abyss or not. If I can give a word of suggest, stop writing and find yourself a chance to test Abyss your self. Then youn can share your impressions with us.


----------



## AnakChan

x838nwy, you may wanna chill a little. kiertijai is merely expressing his stance of how he values the comments of his colleagues. It's not gospel.


----------



## x838nwy

anakchan said:


> x838nwy, you may wanna chill a little. kiertijai is merely expressing his stance of how he values the comments of his colleagues. It's not gospel.




My apologies to all. If the guy trusts in certain opinions, I'm cool with that, always. Just don't get the whole elite thing. Anyhow, please forgive the pollution. Will refrain in future.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

The Abyss sure gets a lot of attention...


----------



## rgs9200m

There seems to be an emphasis on comparing the Abyss to the SR009, and I suppose this is because of the price similarity.
  I think the more apt comparison is with LCD3s or HE500s/HE6s, as these are headphones of the same type (planar-mags).
   
  My 009s have such a different sonic feel from my dynamics I usually don't compare them to each other, as they are in different sonic worlds.


----------



## x838nwy

radio_head said:


> Why is it so terrible?  It is very similar to my comparison of the newest Ferrari and Lamborghini models.  The Ferrari drove like a charm and was better across the board on acceleration, speed, turn handling - everything.  The Lamborghini seemed to have no "grip" of the road, took forever to accelerate and longer to slow down.  The Ferrari was tested on the Autobahn while the Lamborghini was tested on the _very same road_ in a blizzard.
> 
> business_jj sells the Abyss by the way.




It's the Shakti Stone installed on the Ferrari, I tell you.

More on topic however, business_jj also sells Stax, Fostex and Senns, assuming he makes a similar margin on them all, i'd consider his comments a wee bit more impartial, may be(?)

Comparing them to electrostats imo is inevitable, I guess. But I'll try to get some head time on them this weekend and seeing I've never heard the 009's, I wonder if my views will differ from others who have.


----------



## Radio_head

Personally, I think it was that in one case the road wasn't optimal for the car driving on it, but maybe that's just me.
   
  These items do not all have similar margins. x As an example, American sellers here don't make much more than 10% on the 009's, while dealer cost on HD800's is near $8-900 compared to $1499 retail cost.  Stax has some of the worst margins in the business.
   
  I'll buy a dealer being impartial when I see them say something less than complimentary about a product.  Every time a new product comes out, they want to sell some and it is some variety of the best until the next new release.
   
  This is all immaterial though, I brought it up because there are rules and restrictions about what MOT's can post even if they are saints.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> There seems to be an emphasis on comparing the Abyss to the SR009, and I suppose this is because of the price similarity.
> I think the more apt comparison is with LCD3s or HE500s/HE6s, as these are headphones of the same type (planar-mags).
> 
> My 009s have such a different sonic feel from my dynamics I usually don't compare them to each other, as they are in different sonic worlds.


 
   
  That's actually a very good point since the Abyss (ortho) and SR009 (stat) are such different beasts in the way they present sound.


----------



## rgs9200m

To elaborate on my misgivings about comparing the Abyss to 009s, it muddies the waters and is unfair to both phones.
  While a thread about stats vs. non-stats would be great,
  the Abyss/009 comparisons seem to have a lot of issues that would fall in the stats vs. non-stats arena, and that's not germane to the discussion.
  --------------------------------
  And yep, a dealer should clearly disclose the fact that he is one and his affiliation in any post (I'm sure the head-fi moderator would agree). Isn't there a head-fi rule about that?


----------



## purrin

Part of it is lack of actual hands-on knowledge and experience. As you said, folks see the price tags; and it's natural to compare based on that.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> Why is it so terrible?  It is very similar to my comparison of the newest Ferrari and Lamborghini models.  The Ferrari drove like a charm and was better across the board on acceleration, speed, turn handling - everything.  The Lamborghini seemed to have no "grip" of the road, took forever to accelerate and longer to slow down.  The Ferrari was tested on the Autobahn while the Lamborghini was tested on the _very same road_ in a blizzard.
> 
> business_jj sells the Abyss by the way.


 
  +1
   
  I was really surprised when they said they were using the Leben, which is considered to be garbage? terrible? even for normal headphones (despite the ridiculous price). If somebody is going to declare the Abyss superior over the SR-009 at least have the decency to drive it off a Stax purposed amp. At least the 727/717 if not a full out Blue Hawaii//Electra/Liquid Lightning. The logic of it's "fair" because they're both being driven from the same amp is crazy bad/flawed because the amp might work ok with one headphone while being terrible with the other because of different driver principles, different technology.
   
  It's like racing a horse and Ferrari up a mountain without a road: the Ferrari can't go up and will lose but the horse can run up like hell. Give them both the right equipment and then compare.
   
  I think we only know one thing from the review which is that the SR-009 doesn't sound all that great from the Leben, which isn't even a Stax purposed amp to begin with. And it's the Leben, nothing sounds great with it. LOL


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Abyss arrives tonight. Will test vs modded LCD3.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> Abyss arrives tonight. Will test vs modded LCD3.


 
  How is an LCD3 modded? New to me...


----------



## business_jj

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> @business_jj, Peeradonn   do you think the performance of JPS abyss justify its asking price?  comparing to a less expensive but
> also excellent, LCD3


 
   
   
  I don't think they both are worth the asking prices as well as LCD3. I still like Sony R10 (bass heavy) the most. But if you are looking for the best headphone that is currently available in the market with no limited budget, I think they are just only two options now. They are the beasts from two species. You can borrow my Abyss to compare with others this weekend if you want to. I'm appreciated to let you listen to it and share to people.
   
  Quote: 





radio_head said:


> Personally, I think it was that in one case the road wasn't optimal for the car driving on it, but maybe that's just me.
> 
> These items do not all have similar margins. x As an example, American sellers here don't make much more than 10% on the 009's, while dealer cost on HD800's is near $8-900 compared to $1499 retail cost.  Stax has some of the worst margins in the business.
> 
> ...


 
   
  FYI, I'm STAX distributor so I got the best price from STAX. I got least margin(%) from JPS compared to other brands I sell, Fostex, Senneiser, HifiMAN, Audeze, etc. And since I started my business as headphone store, I have never sold any high-end headphone to head-fi members, not even one unit. I became a member since 2008 and have only 81 posts. I should post more If I am being affiliate with any companies. Also, If I really mean to sell it, I can become sponsor and create a selling treat.

 I'm just a headphone lover like you guys but its funny since someone put MOT status on my name and I can't even share my experiences straightforwardly.

 I do believe that very few members here have more experiences that I am. I do have headphone demo over 200 models, +30 DACs, +10 sources, +15 amps and more which all are in my hand now. I started to buy and compare headphone since 1997. So I think my post should have at least some useful information for some users which I'm cheerful to do that without any benefit.

 But this is internet world, people here don't know real me. It's hard to make people think of me in that way.


----------



## Radio_head

Quote: 





business_jj said:


> I don't think they both are worth the asking prices as well as LCD3. I still like Sony R10 (bass heavy) the most. But if you are looking for the best headphone that is currently available in the market with no limited budget, I think they are just only two options now. They are the beasts from two species. You can borrow my Abyss to compare with others this weekend if you want to. I'm appreciated to let you listen to it and share to people.
> 
> 
> FYI, I'm STAX distributor so I got the best price from STAX. I got least margin(%) from JPS compared to other brands I sell, Fostex, Senneiser, HifiMAN, Audeze, etc. And since I started my business as headphone store, I have never sold any high-end headphone to head-fi members, not even one unit. I became a member since 2008 and have only 81 posts. I should post more If I am being affiliate with any companies. Also, If I really mean to sell it, I can become sponsor and create a selling treat.
> ...


 
  The MOT rules are the MOT rules, yes they gyp us of some experienced opinions but they also prevent this forum from becoming way too commercialized, as well as the inevitable hissy fits between various MOT's you'll find on some other forums.
   
  By the way, who is peeradonn buying his Abyss from?


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> How is an LCD3 modded? New to me...


 
   
  They replaced the internal cables with Jena Cables. The sound remains dark, warm, but soundstage and clarity have improved.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> They replaced the internal cables with Jena Cables. The sound remains dark, warm, but soundstage and clarity have improved.


 
  Oh... and I was hoping it was the toiletpants mod.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Oh... and I was hoping it was the toiletpants mod.


 
  xD
   
  It was a custom job from a friend. Haha.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Abyss is here! On to testing...
   
  I do say, I'm just using a Fostex HP-A3 and its actually okay...
   
  EDIT:
   
  MacBookPro - Audirvana Pro
  WireWorld Platinum Starlight 0.3m USB
  Fostex HP-A3
  Abyss
   
  That's the setup right now.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> Abyss is here! On to testing...
> 
> I do say, I'm just using a Fostex HP-A3 and its actually okay...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Congratulations!
   
  I have to tell you that the difference in the bass is night and day when you power the Abyss from a lower powered amp versus a high powered amp. I tried the Abyss from a Woo Audio WA7 versus the nfb-27 and I can tell you that there is a huge difference in terms of slam/impact and overall sound.
   
  The bass (in terms of slam, quality and quantity) should be higher than your LCD3's. If not, try the Abyss from something more beefy, if you can.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





citadel said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> I have to tell you that the difference in the bass is night and day when you power the Abyss from a lower powered amp versus a high powered amp. I tried the Abyss from a Woo Audio WA7 versus the nfb-27 and I can tell you that there is a huge difference in terms of slam/impact and overall sound.
> 
> The bass (in terms of slam, quality and quantity) should be higher than your LCD3's. If not, try the Abyss from something more beefy, if you can.


 
   
  I have the Cavalli LAu sitting beside me right now but its still in a box and I'm not sure I have RCAs...


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> I have the Cavalli LAu sitting beside me right now but its still in a box and I'm not sure I have RCAs...


 

 You will certainly have a very good setup.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Augmented my setup:
   
  Fostex HP-A3
  to
  ALO Audio MK3-B+
  to
  Abyss
   
  WOW.
   
  All I can say.


----------



## x838nwy

Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> Augmented my setup:
> 
> Fostex HP-A3
> to
> ...


 
   
  It never seize to amaze me what the little Mk3-B can drive. I'm more amazed, however, that you have refrained from ripping open your LAu's box!!!!
   
  p.s. what's the difference between the Mk3b and the Mk3b+? I've always wondered.
   
  Thanks
   
  C


----------



## zachchen1996

citadel said:


> The bass (in terms of slam, quality and quantity) should be higher than your LCD3's




If this is really true, considering how impressed I was from the lcd3's bass when I heard it at a meet, ..... abyss here I come!!!


----------



## VisceriousZERO

x838nwy said:


> It never seize to amaze me what the little Mk3-B can drive. I'm more amazed, however, that you have refrained from ripping open your LAu's box!!!!
> 
> p.s. what's the difference between the Mk3b and the Mk3b+? I've always wondered.
> 
> ...






From what I know the MK3B+ is an improved version, especially with the bass control knob... Note in testing I've not moved the bass knob, as in its off.


----------



## x838nwy

Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> From what I know the MK3B+ is an improved version, especially with the bass control knob... Note in testing I've not moved the bass knob, as in its off.


 
   
  The non "+" has a bass control knob also... anyhow, as far as I'm aware, the output stage hasn't changed... which means mine should be able to drive it. Would be an amusing perversion driving a 5.5k headphones from a portable setup


----------



## alvin sawdust

Anyone upgraded the abyss cable yet?


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





alvin sawdust said:


> Anyone upgraded the abyss cable yet?


 
  I would think that there is no upgrade. These are JPS cables!


----------



## alvin sawdust

Quote: 





citadel said:


> I would think that there is no upgrade. These are JPS cables!


 
  Hence the wink


----------



## cedboe

+1
   
  If only Lessloss did cables for headphones...


----------



## VisceriousZERO

I tried using my LCD's Labkable 99%silver 1%gold cable (as seen in the photo) and it made the bass boomier and deeper, and the SS a bit wider.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





alvin sawdust said:


> Hence the wink


 
  D'oh! I didnt see that on my iPhone,


----------



## wink

Quote:Alvin sawdust


> Hence the wink


 
  You called?


----------



## x838nwy

Not that it matters a ton, but does anyone know the material/construction of the stock cable?


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Been experimenting with the Abyss and my various Portable DACs and amps.
   
  So far the Go-DAP DD 12V LTD SM64 with the MK3B+ and even the Apex Glacier can power it.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> Been experimenting with the Abyss and my various Portable DACs and amps.
> 
> So far the Go-DAP DD 12V LTD SM64 with the MK3B+ and even the Apex Glacier can power it.


 
   
  I dare you to wear them on a bus.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





currawong said:


> I dare you to wear them on a bus.


 
  Hey at least I can drive them portably when I travel!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





currawong said:


> I dare you to wear them on a bus.


 
  I'm upping this to a double-dog dare! And photos or it didn't happen.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

But I don't take a bus...


----------



## zachchen1996

visceriouszero said:


> But I don't take a bus...




Now you have a reason too. You'll be a hit on youtube, "crazy man with medieval contraption on head riding public bus"


----------



## PanamaHat

Just assuming they scrapped the spider web design that they had prototype verson. For $5k+ shouldn't you be able to get your own design cnc'd. With that said I really wish I could afford these


----------



## wink

Quote:Magpie 





> I dare you to wear them on a bus.


 
  Cyberman Alert - Call Doctor Who........


----------



## VisceriousZERO

I must say, I do like its design, but the comfort after wearing it for a while needs work. Otherwise its fine...


----------



## x838nwy

Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> I must say, I do like its design, but the comfort after wearing it for a while needs work. Otherwise its fine...


 
   
  Interesting to hear that. From what I've read most people hate the look (although to varying degrees) but most also find them comfortable. How do they compare to Audeze's?


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





x838nwy said:


> Interesting to hear that. From what I've read most people hate the look (although to varying degrees) but most also find them comfortable. How do they compare to Audeze's?


 
   
  I guess I like the weird "torture device" look. And no I'm not into that stuff.
   
  They're very comfy on the top of my head but I have a wide head, so there's a little bit of clamp... I guess I need to play around with the fit a bit more, but I really like the LCD-3's soft cushiony lambskin pads a bit more than the Abyss'.


----------



## purrin




----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





purrin said:


>


 
  <3?


----------



## etherlite

Tried Abyss again with LAu and Calyx femto/Auralic Vega yesterday

Tbh, I'm not impressed. The LAu just arrived the previous day (and it's clearly better and more powerful than LG), and I'm definitely not a fan of Femto, but somehow the sound is totally not my cup of tea. It's undeniably good, but I dislike the sound sig


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> Tried Abyss again with LAu and Calyx femto/Auralic Vega yesterday
> 
> Tbh, I'm not impressed. The LAu just arrived the previous day (and it's clearly better and more powerful than LG), and I'm definitely not a fan of Femto, but somehow the sound is totally not my cup of tea. It's undeniably good, but I dislike the sound sig


 
   
  Finally, another opinion EDIT: from someone who's listened to it... What do you not like about the Sound Sig?


----------



## x838nwy

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> Tried Abyss again with LAu and Calyx femto/Auralic Vega yesterday
> 
> Tbh, I'm not impressed. The LAu just arrived the previous day (and it's clearly better and more powerful than LG), and I'm definitely not a fan of Femto, but somehow the sound is totally not my cup of tea. It's undeniably good, but I dislike the sound sig


 
   
  How was the Vega+LAu?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





etherlite said:


> Tried Abyss again with LAu and Calyx femto/Auralic Vega yesterday
> 
> Tbh, I'm not impressed. The LAu just arrived the previous day (and it's clearly better and more powerful than LG), and I'm definitely not a fan of Femto, but somehow the sound is totally not my cup of tea. It's undeniably good, but I dislike the sound sig


 
   
  i felt the same way with LAu and Abyss (on a mytek).
   
  its good, but seems kinda boring sounding and theres a sort of dullness or veil or something weird to the sound, i'm not sure, but theres something weird about it i didn't like.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





purrin said:


>


 
  Ah, the Abyss 2 is about to be released. I guess the man bag will have to bigger this time around, but I guess on the plus side we won't need a headphone stand.


----------



## etherlite

Quote: 





visceriouszero said:


> Finally, another opinion EDIT: from someone who's listened to it... What do you not like about the Sound Sig?


 
   
  Quote: 





x838nwy said:


> How was the Vega+LAu?


 
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i felt the same way with LAu and Abyss (on a mytek).
> 
> its good, but seems kinda boring sounding and theres a sort of dullness or veil or something weird to the sound, i'm not sure, but theres something weird about it i didn't like.


 
   
  Coming from LCD-2 background with sweet mid and powerful bass, I felt these areas are a lot less displayed by the Femto-LAu-Abyss. The soundstage, imaging and treble are undeniably better on the abyss, but I failed to get the wow factor I was expecting
   
  Vega-LAu-Abyss had better mid and bass, but the speed is significantly decreased


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> There seems to be an emphasis on comparing the Abyss to the SR009, and I suppose this is because of the price similarity.
> I think the more apt comparison is with LCD3s or HE500s/HE6s, as these are headphones of the same type (planar-mags).
> 
> My 009s have such a different sonic feel from my dynamics I usually don't compare them to each other, as they are in different sonic worlds.


 
   
  Hmm...they have to be compared, after all, they're both just reproducing music. If one is better than the other in reproducing music, that one would be the most preferred, regardless of price or technology.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Hmm...they have to be compared, after all, they're both just reproducing music. If one is better than the other in reproducing music, that one would be the most preferred, regardless of price or technology.


 
  Then again, some people would prefer _euphonic _sounding cans over accurate ones...and are willing to pay big bucks for them (i.e., R10, HE90).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

etherlite said:


> Coming from LCD-2 background with sweet mid and powerful bass, I felt these areas are a lot less displayed by the Femto-LAu-Abyss. The soundstage, imaging and treble are undeniably better on the abyss, but I failed to get the wow factor I was expecting
> 
> Vega-LAu-Abyss had better mid and bass, but the speed is significantly decreased




Yeah i didnt get that wow factor either, even though the abyss are better than lcd-2/3


----------



## Duckman

Had another listen yesterday at A2A. Brought in my own DAC and LCD3, so the chain was Forssell MADA-2 - Cavalli Liquid Gold - Abyss/LD3.
   
  My impression was that the LAu significantly lifted the performance of the LCD3 to the point that I preferred it on my noggin over the Abyss.
   
  The Abyss, as expected, had significantly superior staging and better bass definition and slam. My friend preferred the mids on the Abyss for vocals, but I found them to be a bit thin, even with my relatively un-excitable, chilled DAC. The LCD3 had greater body and a more natural timbre. I also preferred the treble of the LCD3, very relaxed, natural, without a hint of etch.
   
  The Abyss does have a special magical, toe-tapping quality though, and its sound-stage and instrument separation/layering are extraordinary.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





citadel said:


> Then again, some people would prefer _euphonic _sounding cans over accurate ones...and are willing to pay big bucks for them (i.e., R10, HE90).


 
   
  How can you tell which is accurate? What is your reference?


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





purrin said:


> Part of it is lack of actual hands-on knowledge and experience. As you said, folks see the price tags; and it's natural to compare based on that.


 
  Purrin, not everyone is as dumb or lacks the experience you think they do. I suppose what Chris Martens wrote in Playback doesn't mean anything then...
   
  "The mission of the AB-1266 is a daunting one; namely, to meet or beat the performance of Stax’s incredibly good SR-009 electrostatic headphone in every respect, but in a format that is much simpler to drive than an electrostat can be. Are we there yet? Time will tell, but the AB-1266 certain sounded promising".


----------



## TMRaven

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Purrin, not everyone is as dumb or lacks the experience you think they do. I suppose what Chris Martens wrote in Playback doesn't mean anything then...
> 
> "The mission of the AB-1266 is a daunting one; namely, to meet or beat the performance of Stax’s incredibly good SR-009 electrostatic headphone in every respect, but in a format that is much simpler to drive than an electrostat can be. Are we there yet? Time will tell, but the AB-1266 certain sounded promising".


 
   
   
  I don't think he called anyone dumb or lacked experience-- he said they lacked hands-on experience with the abyss.


----------



## x838nwy

Imo, it depends on whether jps aims to make the 'best' ortho or the 'best' headphones, period. If it's the latter, then there's no reason why the abyss should be excluded from a comparison against the 009. How that can be fairly arranged is a different matter.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> How can you tell which is accurate? What is your reference?


 
   
  Very good question. I dont think I personally have a 'ground truth' reference. Personally, It would be from prior experience (as an amateur musician and live gig/orchestra patron) of how instruments 'should' or tend to sound. Obviously not the best method. Im sure there are other more empirical measures one could use. Many people cite simple headphone measure as neutrality, low distortion, etc...Anyone with other ideas?
   
  The one thing I know is that a lot of headphones cannot adequately replicate the dynamics of live music. This is what the Abyss does extremely well, IMO.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

I just plugged in the Abyss to a Fiio X3-Fiio Montblanc setup and it was driving the cans very well even at low gain. Weird.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> I don't think he called anyone dumb or lacked experience-- he said they lacked hands-on experience with the abyss.


 
  I see your point, but I didn't read where it said "with the abyss". The previous post included comments of 'stats vs. non-stats' and that how I read it, since his reply seemed like a generalized statement (the general population wouldn't have hands-on experience with either the Abyss or SR-009).
   
  I don't think it really matters anyway. The point of the Playback remarks was that the SR-009 are arguably the best current production headphones available today, and the goal of Abyss is to become that. Basically, they only consider the SR-009 to be their main competition at this level. So why wouldn't anyone want to read about the comparisons. Why did Tyll compare them, or any of the other professional reviewers.


----------



## purrin

golfnutz said:


> Purrin, not everyone is as dumb or lacks the experience you think they do. I suppose what Chris Martens wrote in Playback doesn't mean anything then...
> 
> "The mission of the AB-1266 is a daunting one; namely, to meet or beat the performance of Stax’s incredibly good SR-009 electrostatic headphone in every respect, but in a format that is much simpler to drive than an electrostat can be. Are we there yet? Time will tell, but the AB-1266 certain sounded promising".


 


    
   
  Quote:


golfnutz said:


> I see your point, but I didn't read where it said "with the abyss". The previous post included comments of 'stats vs. non-stats' and that how I read it, since his reply seemed like a generalized statement (the general population wouldn't have hands-on experience with either the Abyss or SR-009).
> 
> I don't think it really matters anyway. The point of the Playback remarks was that the SR-009 are arguably the best current production headphones available today, and the goal of Abyss is to become that. Basically, they only consider the SR-009 to be their main competition at this level. So why wouldn't anyone want to read about the comparisons. Why did Tyll compare them, or any of the other professional reviewers.


 
   
You are correct. It was intended as a _generalized _statement about how the general population hadn't had hands-on experience with these two (Abyss and 009) and also other TOTL headphones. I never said people were dumb and I apologize if you took the statement as I think _you _are dumb. However I do feel that people who are conjecturing about headphones they haven't heard are doing a disservice to HF by further lowering the already low signal-to-noise ratio here. So yeah, in that sense, people are _that _dumb.
   
I don't know how Chris Martin plays into this, I haven't read his stuff, nor do I care about what he has to say. (He's a journalist who probably doesn't own any of this stuff, much less live and breath it.) Personally, I think the SR-007mk1 from the right amp (DIY T2, BHSE, LL2, Electra) is arguably better than the SR-009. Muppetface and many longtime 'stat aficionados I know also prefer the 007mk1 to the 009. Although your point about the 009 actually being in production is a good one, but it's a straw-man argument against the point I was trying to make.
   
Keep in mind that there are a lot folks who just do not care for the sound of electrostatics, and of the STAX sound in particular. As someone else mentioned, comparing an ortho against a 'stat is perhaps not the most appropriate because their presentations are _so _different. What's surprising is that there are not more comparisons of the Abyss to dynamics, i.e. HD800, TH900, or to other orthos, i.e. LCD3, HE-6, HE-5, etc. *A comparison to these other headphones is just as valid and perhaps even more informative than a comparison to the SR-009*.* There is a small legion of hard core ortho-guys who are looking at the Abyss and saying: "Wow, a near-critically damped ortho!" (this is a big deal - the ortho holy grail - if you are not aware of the consequences of such.)
   
   
*Especially true since the "Abyss vs. SR-009" thing has always seemed to be more a matter of e-peening and possibly bruised egos on the part of SR-009 owners who have probably identified themselves too much with it. All because some a few people have opined that the Abyss is a better headphone.


----------



## rgs9200m

I think I started the stat vs. non-stat issue here, and it's just that, when I want gripping realism where I can't read or concentrate on anything else when listening,
  I turn to my 009s + 007t-ii amp. When I want a more mellow, fuzzy musical experience that lets my mind wander, I turn to my LCD3s or TH900s with my Pinnacle amp.
   
  Which is better or more musical or absorbing or compelling? I don't know, it depends on what day it is.
   
  So I wouldn't expect any mag/planars or dynamics to do the stat thing, and I wouldn't want them to. It would violate some sort of natural law of sound reproduction.
  Vanilla is Vanilla and Chocolate is Chocolate, period.


----------



## Golfnutz

[size=11pt]*^^ That’s where I think your wrong. As a SR-009 owner, I wouldn’t have an issue with selling everything and purchasing something non Stat related, if I felt it was better. Problem is, I consider myself a power user, someone who listens to their system 8-10 a day, 5 days a week. One of the reasons I sold my LCD’s and HD800 is because over an extended period of time they didn’t give me the satisfaction I was looking for. I can honestly say the SR-009/BHSE/MSB combo gives me that, and with absolutely no fatigue (now even more satisfaction with the EL34PH tubes).  To me, I think it’s important to find out how the Abyss affects someone using them 50-60 hours per week, for the next 6 months. How would they stand up to the SR-009 then, or should they be considered a fun headphone and shouldn’t be used for these extended periods. For example, would the bass become too much.[/size]


----------



## sachu

buy it, buy an amp to go with it and try it out and let us know.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





sachu said:


> buy it, buy an amp to go with it and try it out and let us know.


 
  Too risky at this point, considering all the negative comments.


----------



## Radio_head




----------



## ultrabike

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> I think I started the stat vs. non-stat issue here, and it's just that, when I want gripping realism where I can't read or concentrate on anything else when listening,
> I turn to my 009s + 007t-ii amp. When I want a more mellow, fuzzy musical experience that lets my mind wander, I turn to my LCD3s or TH900s with my Pinnacle amp.
> 
> Which is better or more musical or absorbing or compelling? I don't know, it depends on what day it is.
> ...


 
   
  Planars and stats are more limited in the available choices, perhaps for practical reasons. Orthos tend to be heavy and some maybe current hungry, Stats need a mega Volt amp. Sonically they are not perfect. *IMO, there is no perfect headphone or the one headphone (stat or else) to rule them all. There are "better" ones depending on priorities*... Neutral FR? Little mids or highs emphasis? Easy drive? Amp pairing? Low distortion overall? Lowest distortion in the bass area? Lowest distortion in the treble? Extended bass? Extended treble? Smooth treble?
   
  IMO different technologies do have their strengths and weaknesses. But I'm all for the wider availability of options, and more importantly, for the further development and improvement of any particular technology.
    
  Quote:


golfnutz said:


> [size=11pt]*^^ That’s where I think your wrong. As a SR-009 owner, I wouldn’t have an issue with selling everything and purchasing something non Stat related, if I felt it was better. Problem is, I consider myself a power user, someone who listens to their system 8-10 a day, 5 days a week. One of the reasons I sold my LCD’s and HD800 is because over an extended period of time they didn’t give me the satisfaction I was looking for. I can honestly say the SR-009/BHSE/MSB combo gives me that, and with absolutely no fatigue (now even more satisfaction with the EL34PH tubes).  To me, I think it’s important to find out how the Abyss affects someone using them 50-60 hours per week, for the next 6 months. How would they stand up to the SR-009 then, or should they be considered a fun headphone and shouldn’t be used for these extended periods. For example, would the bass become too much.[/size]


 
   
  The bass is not too much. I don't think you will have fatigue issues with the Abyss.


----------



## purrin

Abyss vs. SR-009: some things are better, some things are worse. Transducers are tough thing because there are always compromises from one design to the next. What compromises are you willing to live with? What are your sonic priorities? For example, I've built various speakers, from more traditional multi-way crossover low efficiency designs, to high-efficiency compression driver / horns mated to large woofers, to high-efficiency back-loaded horns with wide-banders which I've settled on now. The wide-banders I use now do some horrible things. But they are also extremely good at others. It's not going to be any different between the Abyss and 009.
   
My own experience has been similar to yours except with a twist: Had HD800. Had LCD3. Had SR009. None of them I found sufficiently satisfying. BTW, I've finally read Mr. Martins article and I particularly agree with his assessment that the 009 does not "equal the Abyss in terms of sheer accuracy of tonal balance" and that the "Abyss captures both large ... dynamic contrasts with greater impact." You may however disagree and feel for example that the 009's tonal balance is perfect or that it's dynamic impact is good enough for your tastes. 
   
I'd say if you are satisfied where you are at now, you should stick to where you are at considering the money and time already spent on dedicated 'stat amps, tweaks, e.g. tubes, etc. unless you have money to blow, in which you should consider starting a second setup. All this keeping in mind that _desire _is like an emaciated creature with a huge stomach and an extremely small esophagus: always hungry.
   
The Abyss is accessible at various dealers throughout the world. You should bring your own DAC to minimize variables and give it a listen. Most dealers are pretty cool about stuff like that if you are serious. Folks on go can on and on about the differences between the 009 and the Abyss, but ultimately only you can decide what is best for you.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

radio_head said:


>




Lol so true


----------



## mwilson

Kids? Is this the best you could come up with?
   
  Quote: 





radio_head said:


>


----------



## Radio_head

No.  But my plan has worked!  Noticed you weren't around much lately - and of course, that must be due to not needing to post since all my jokes are up to a cretin certain standard.  Thus, I planned for months the perfect joke to let you down, cause you to come out of hibernation and post about your disappointment in the quality of my punchline.  Next bad joke is scheduled for January 1st and involves a pie chart that determines once and for all what percentage of MH's posts involve him linking back to his LCD-2 vs LCD-3 impressions.


----------



## purrin

Actually what would more interesting is a timeline of MH's headphone audio journey indicating gear along with a selection quotes of such gear. I would pay $50 for that.


----------



## mwilson

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> No.  But my plan has worked!  Noticed you weren't around much lately - and of course, that must be due to not needing to post since all my jokes are up to a cretin certain standard.  Thus, I planned for months the perfect joke to let you down, cause you to come out of hibernation and post about your disappointment in the quality of my punchline.  Next bad joke is scheduled for January 1st and involves a pie chart that determines once and for all what percentage of MH's posts involve him linking back to his LCD-2 vs LCD-3 impressions.


 
   
  Ever the calculator, you! Your timing is good, and I'll be back in a few months.
   
  But in the meantime, I've been reading up on the Abyss, to see if it's still something that might interest me. I think that once I gouge my eyeballs out with a white-hot iron and get over the resulting pain, I will be able to disregard their visual prowess and focus on their sound instead. Vision seems to be overrated anyway. Didn't stop Ray Charles from making music.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





purrin said:


> Actually what would more interesting is a timeline of MH's headphone audio journey indicating gear along with a selection quotes of such gear. I would pay $50 for that.


 
  Huh, where did that come from, why the insults?


----------



## Radio_head

Deafness didn't stop Beethoven from making it either.  
   
  If you ended up purchasing an LAu I can't think of a better amp for the Abyss.  Unfortunately the production models have several eye-piercingly bright LED's inside the headphones so I'm not sure you'll be able to handle it.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> No.  But my plan has worked!  Noticed you weren't around much lately - and of course, that must be due to not needing to post since all my jokes are up to a cretin certain standard.  Thus, I planned for months the perfect joke to let you down, cause you to come out of hibernation and post about your disappointment in the quality of my punchline.  Next bad joke is scheduled for January 1st and involves a pie chart that determines once and for all what percentage of MH's posts involve him linking back to his LCD-2 vs LCD-3 impressions.


 
  This made me laugh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  MH does link his LCD-2 vs. LCD-3 impression quite a lot... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  I wish I can be like mwilson and just be happy and only log back here once every few months to check out the miserable people still chasing their headphone dreams... having him back reminds me of the old LCD-2 thread that was shut down and I miss WarriorAnt and Googeli.


----------



## Radio_head

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Huh, where did that come from, why the insults?


 
  No insults golf, some good-natured ribbing among friends who can take jokes (I think).  I've given Purrin a harder time than this and he's only hacked into my bank as payback twice!


----------



## mwilson

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> Unfortunately the production models have several eye-piercingly bright LED's inside the headphones so I'm not sure you'll be able to handle it.


 
   
  Is this you joking, or for real? LEDs inside the headphones?


----------



## ultrabike

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> No.  But my plan has worked!  Noticed you weren't around much lately - and of course, that must be due to not needing to post since all my jokes are up to a cretin certain standard.  Thus, I planned for months the perfect joke to let you down, cause you to come out of hibernation and post about your disappointment in the quality of my punchline.  *Next bad joke is scheduled for January 1st *and involves a pie chart that determines once and for all what percentage of MH's posts involve him linking back to his LCD-2 vs LCD-3 impressions.


 
   
  The date within +/- 2 sigmas.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> No insults golf, some good-natured ribbing among friends who can take jokes (I think).  I've given Purrin a harder time than this and he's only hacked into my bank as payback twice!


 
  I just figured your comments was an inside joke between you and MH. I guess I miss it because Purrin's reply didn't come off the same way for some reason.


----------



## Radio_head

Quote: 





mwilson said:


> Is this you joking, or for real? LEDs inside the headphones?


 
   
  No, Joe knows better.  Here he is showing off the proto Abyss and he is clearly trying to block some of the light coming from the LF with his hand so that it doesn't blind potential customers.
   

   
  I think Purrin meant to put a blue winky face after his post so its all good.  I could tell someone I killed their dog and as long as its followed by the winky face they'd think "oh, my dog may be dead but at least now I'm part of this internet joke thing.  Maybe this is what my mom meant when she told my about friends!"  (Insert winky face here)


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> No insults golf, some good-natured ribbing among friends who can take jokes (I think).  I've given Purrin a harder time than this and he's only hacked into my bank as payback twice!


 
   
  If it weren't for all the new members on the LCD-2 thread asking what are the differences with the LCD-3s., instead of typing my comments, seems a lot easier to simply link the wiki I wrote way back when.


----------



## purrin

Ironically, blue winky face is usually a sign I am actually insulting someone. I've noted that one can get away with being very mean on HF provided that the meanie posts are concluded with a blue winky (or yellow smiley) face.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





purrin said:


> Ironically, blue winky face is usually a sign I am actually insulting someone. I've noted that one can get away with being very mean on HF provided that the meanie posts are concluded with a blue winky (or yellow smiley) face.


 
   
  +1


----------



## wink

My face is not blue.....
  What you need is the sarcasm meter.
   

   
  or...

  or...


----------



## purrin

That's an automatic for RH, especially when he replies to me - if you guys haven't figured that out yet.
   
  Actually, R_h's style is really more that of_ verbal irony_ than sarcasm. I tend more toward sarcasm because my style is more bitter or caustic.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





purrin said:


> Ironically, blue winky face is usually a sign I am actually insulting someone. I've noted that one can get away with being very mean on HF provided that the meanie posts are concluded with a blue winky (or yellow smiley) face.


 
  Meh some of the younger members don't appreciate that sarcasm. I've insulted quiete a few young dumb kids with sarcasim... they where not old enough to graps the concept of the Adult Sarcastic exchange lol..
   
  Still 
   
  1) they look horrible 
  2) The adds made me think they where some cheap knock off $300 piece of junk. I mean I've never seen the LCD3 or the HD 800 advertised. 
   
  3) and Most importantly. I am SO glad to see they are actually REALLY good headphones! I mean I clicked on their add and still assumed, meh must be junk. But in all honesty it was enough to get to me read here that these are some of the best Planar's ever! 
   
  So I'm glad I gather'd alittle more info about them b4 I threw them in with the over hyped "Dr.Dre headphones"
   
  I'm still not a fan any add that proclaims it self the best of anything, But then again there really is not a lot of Advertisments for high end audio gear is there :O [although I'm more of a fact and spec sheet shopper than an add guy >.>]
   
  EITHER WAY, happy to hear these are just as awesome as the Add claims


----------



## kiertijai

The JPS Abyss AB-1266 have arrived Munkong Thailand for 2 weeks. One week later the MalValve three followed along with HE90, Sony MDR R10,
  Stax SR009, Fostex TH900, LCD3, HD800, HE6 and HE500   etc.
  At first impression,  the Abyss impressed us with deepest and best quality bass while the mid was a little bit recessed and mild sparkling treble.  The
  background was dark, quiet with huge soundstage and excellent detail.  We tried several amplifiers at first with burson conductor, bakoon amplifier,
  AudioGD and Schiit Mjolnir.   The Burson conductor seems to be underpower and the soundstage was small and compress.  The bakoon was better
  with excellent dynamic swing.  At Munkong some said that the best match may be the AudioGD and Schiit Mjolniris also very good but the sound quality was different while the audioGD was more analytical and Schiit mjolnir produced thicker warmer sound.  
  When Mal Valve Three arrived it can drive the Abyss very good however in some music which require excellent dynamic swing i.e. The rite of Spring
  it seem to be under power but the sounds was very nice.  The MalValve three was excellent with HD800 (may be the best I have heard), Sony MDR R10 (equal to EAR HP4 that I also own) .It is a perfect match for the HE6 ahd HE500 and their bass with the HE was perfect.  LCD3 also shines with Mal Valve Three.
  We tried more of the Mal Valve Three with fully balanced setup and use the Ayre DSD DAC with volume control.  Now you get the perfect combination
  (from what I heard from Munkong and Louis) between Abyss and MalValve Three (at least 30% better than the SE setup).  We will have more chance to directly compare with other legendary and other better current headphones


----------



## kiertijai

here are the amplifiers that we tested and matched very well with the JPS Abyss (which still needs more burn in)
  Mal Valve Three in fully balanced setup is one of the best combo out there especially it brings life to the mid
  especially for vocal music for the Abyss, if you want more laid back mid you may try Bakoon Amplifier and for
  really good dynamic swing AudioGD is the better one.  Burson Conductor and other in Munkong are under power


----------



## citadel

kiertijai said:


> here are the amplifiers that we tested and matched very well with the JPS Abyss (which still needs more burn in)
> Mal Valve Three in fully balanced setup is one of the best combo out there especially it brings life to the mid
> especially for vocal music for the Abyss, if you want more laid back mid you may try Bakoon Amplifier and for
> really good dynamic swing AudioGD is the better one.  Burson Conductor and other in Munkong are under power




Interesting review.

The abyss pairs wonderfully with the audio-gd nfb27. Some people in another thread questioned my judgement without trying the combo themselves. 

What audio-gd amp did you use? Was it a master 8 or a reference 10?


----------



## x838nwy

Interesting findings - specially with the mjolnir, it'd be interesting to pair the abyss with the new schiit ragnarok (whenever that arrives).

More importantly how does the abyss compare against the lcd3 or any other cans mentioned above? I know you find the ayre+malvalve+abyss impressive/perfect and one would hope a +$15k setup sounds pretty darn good but how would you rate it against say an ayre+malvalve+lcd3 or even ayre+malvalve+sr009?

Thanks

C


----------



## kiertijai

More importantly how does the abyss compare against the lcd3 or any other cans mentioned above? I know you find the ayre+malvalve+abyss impressive/perfect and one would hope a +$15k setup sounds pretty darn good but how would you rate it against say an ayre+malvalve+lcd3 or even ayre+malvalve+sr009?

 Thanks
       It also depends on personal taste to say which headphone is better.
        However IMO Abyss+Malvalve three  or even Bakoon or Schiit Mjolnir is far better than LCD3 and most people
  who have listened to SR009 vs Abyss also preferred the Abyss which is more exciting, dark background , better soundstage
  and best bass resonse.  Even witht he use of Bakoon or Schiit Mjolnir (which is not as expensive) it is still better.  There is
  one cheaph AudioGD Precision one just coming out (550$ price with speaker post option) with the power of 16W at 40 Ohm
  hopefully it can also do a good job on the Abyss.  Munkong just recently has them and will try them soon.   We also use the
  Benchmark DAC and the result are similar.   IMO the Abyss is one of the best current headphone, better than SR009 and LCD3
  HD800 drive byMal Valve Three may be closer to the abyss.


----------



## x838nwy

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> It also depends on personal taste to say which headphone is better.
> However IMO Abyss+Malvalve three  or even Bakoon or Schiit Mjolnir is far better than LCD3 and most people
> who have listened to SR009 vs Abyss also preferred the Abyss which is more exciting, dark background , better soundstage
> and best bass resonse.  Even witht he use of Bakoon or Schiit Mjolnir (which is not as expensive) it is still better.  There is
> ...


 
   
  Quite interesting this... thank you for your impressions. I'm saving up for an LAu... but the abyss sounds pretty good with a mjolnir, you say... I happen to have a mjolnir... and the wait on the LAu seems so long....
   
  It totally sucks that now there's finally a couple of pairs of these babies in Thailand, I will not be anywhere within 500km of either for at least the next 2 weeks. Arrrrrrgggghhhhh!!!!!


----------



## MuppetFace

I'm extremely fond of the Abyss, and I'm one of the folks kiertijai mentions who prefers it over the SR-009. I'd go so far as to say there's really only one headphone I prefer over the Abyss, and that's the Sennheiser Orpheus HE90, but only on the right amplifier (there seems to be quite a bit of variation among HEV90s in my experience). Then again the Orpheus costs double what the Abyss does.
   
  In my opinion the Sennheiser HD800 is still better at resolving micro detail compared to the Abyss. The Stax SR-Omega midrange still sounds a bit more 'correct' with certain instruments. The SR-007mk1 is still less fatiguing and easier to listen to for longer periods of time. The treble on the SR-009 sounds smoother and more refined. The treble on the Sony R10 sounds sweeter while its mids sound more emotional. The Qualia 010 sounds more spacious and airy. However none of these headphones---each one exceptional in its own right---get as much right to my ears _overall_ as the Abyss. None of them sound as natural or as balanced in frequency response to my ears as the Abyss. So while other headphones may excel over the Abyss in certain respects, for me its hard to beat as a complete package. No headphone is perfect by any means, even the $12k Orpheus. It's really a matter of finding something that does what you prioritize best while minimizing the flaws that bug you the most. For me the Abyss does just that.
   
  As kiertijai says, the bass response is just awesome. Best bass I've heard in a pair of headphones to date: taut, punchy, extremely well textured while not at all overbearing. The Abyss' strong suit IMHO is how well controlled those drivers are. It starts and stops on a dime with a stunning sense of speed and articulation. As purrin noted so astutely, flagship Stax tend to more gracefully accelerate and decelerate which lends them a more ethereal kind of sonic presence. It's a more refined type of sound that some people will definitely prefer. For me however the Abyss just sounds more true to life in comparison.


----------



## x838nwy

MuppetFace, what amp(s) did you try the abyss with, just out of curiosity.

Also, I seem to recall you got yours quite early on. Any change after break-in?


----------



## kiertijai

_In my opinion the Sennheiser HD800 is still better at resolving micro detail compared to the Abyss. The Stax SR-Omega midrange still sounds a bit more 'correct' with certain instruments. The SR-007mk1 is still less fatiguing and easier to listen to for longer periods of time. The treble on the SR-009 sounds smoother and more refined. The treble on the Sony R10 sounds sweeter while its mids sound more emotional. The Qualia 010 sounds more spacious and airy._
_     _Thanks Muppetface. I haven't tried other Stax yet but I will soon especially the SR Omega  that I  have kept in the box for too long looking for adequate amplifier to drive it.
       You share my experience with HD800 and Qualia 010,  I also felt that the sound of the Qualia seems to be richer as well as the HD800.  MalValveThree may be the best amplifier
  to drive those phones besides the EAR HP4.
        I will try my other phones later when I figure out how to handle the Abyss correctly.  I will also try to compare with the new Jecklin Float QA and TakeT H2+ in the same setup
  driven by my Zotl amplfier through jumpers (for new Jecklin Float QA, TakeT H2+) and special adapter cable (Kimber Kable 8TC) from speaker to 4 pin XLR next week at Munkong
  I would like to have other Thai members to share their experience too.   Hope we have the Ayre DSD DAC there at the time.   One member (Moowan) is trying to convert my SACD collections
  to DSD ISO and DSF file so we will have more to try i.e. Mariah Carey, Alison Krauss, Jazz at the Pawnshop, Queen , Black Sabbath, all Bernstein's Mahler, and other esoteric SACD e.g.
  Swan Lake Fistoulari, recent Brahms' Piano concertos by Backhaus and Helene Grimaud.  There is one new site for DSD download www.superhirez.com but I don't know whether they
  just ripped SACD to DSD or produce  DSD  download and only few selections seen : Shelby Lynne, Holly Cole , Phoebe Snow   etc.


----------



## MuppetFace

I mainly use the Liquid Gold with the Abyss. It's become my go to amp for planar magnetics in general. One of the most powerful headphone amps I've used, with immense control over the drivers while still maintaining an uncanny level of delicacy and finesse. It presents detail and layering in a very overt way but still sounds natural, open, and musical. Basically I feel it's the best solid state dedicated headphone amp I've ever heard for my personal taste.
   
  I've also used the Abyss with the Liquid Glass, Moth Audio 2A3, and a prototype build of the Black Diamond from ECP (a transformer based amp rather than transistors or tubes). Additionally I'd tried it with portable amps, DAPs, and directly out of sources without any external amplification. To me the Abyss seems about on par with the HE-6 when it comes to power requirements, but I find it's a lot easier to drive than the HE-6 synergistically speaking, sounding better with a wider variety of gear whereas the HE-6 is pickier. That's not to say the Abyss sounds good on everything though, and some pairings are definitely better than others. The Liquid Gold remains my favorite.


----------



## x838nwy

Quote: 





muppetface said:


> I mainly use the Liquid Gold with the Abyss. It's become my go to amp for planar magnetics in general. One of the most powerful headphone amps I've used, with immense control over the drivers while still maintaining an uncanny level of delicacy and finesse. It presents detail and layering in a very overt way but still sounds natural, open, and musical. Basically I feel it's the best solid state dedicated headphone amp I've ever heard for my personal taste.
> 
> I've also used the Abyss with the Liquid Glass, Moth Audio 2A3, and a prototype build of the Black Diamond from ECP (a transformer based amp rather than transistors or tubes). Additionally I'd tried it with portable amps, DAPs, and directly out of sources without any external amplification. To me the Abyss seems about on par with the HE-6 when it comes to power requirements, but I find it's a lot easier to drive than the HE-6 synergistically speaking, sounding better with a wider variety of gear whereas the HE-6 is pickier. That's not to say the Abyss sounds good on everything though, and some pairings are definitely better than others. The Liquid Gold remains my favorite.


 
   
  Thanks for the info. Seems I'll most likely get LAu _then_ the Abyss. Then finally just be flat broke.


----------



## zachchen1996

x838nwy said:


> Thanks for the info. Seems I'll most likely get LAu _then_ the Abyss. Then finally just be flat broke.




Oh, and don't forget that DCS Vivaldi Stack!


----------



## x838nwy

Quote: 





zachchen1996 said:


> Oh, and don't forget that DCS Vivaldi Stack!


 
   
  There's currently no way of me acquiring that setup that does not involve jail time. Actually, I will avoid listening to a Da Vinci -> LAu -> Abyss and similar setup's just in case I eventually find a way to retionalize good sound vs. shower rapes and incarceration. My family may not appreciate such sacrifices.


----------



## kiertijai

_What audio-gd amp did you use? Was it a master 8 or a reference 10?_
_    _It is master 8.  However it seems that other audioGD  is a good match for the Abyss.
      I wonder if the new audioGD precision one that recently came out is a good match too.  The price
  is quite tempting 550$   with 16W X2  into 40 Ohm and with speaker post option.
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/amp/Precision1/Precision1EN.htm
      Three Precision One will arrive Thailand this weekend, hope that we have chances to try that too.
  The dynamic swing with the AudioGd seems to be the best.


----------



## kiertijai

will report the result of the Precision One
  and also the comparison between new Jecklin float QA, TakeT H2+ and the Abyss  next week.
  All set up is ready_._


----------



## x838nwy

kiertijai said:


> will report the result of the Precision One
> and also the comparison between new Jecklin float QA, TakeT H2+ and the Abyss  next week.
> All set up is ready_._




For all the complaints about how they look, the abyss would look quite mundane among that lot.

What amps will you be using for all those?


----------



## kiertijai

_What amps will you be using for all those?_
       I can directly compare only 3 different headphones : new Jecklin Float QA, TakeT H2+ and JPS Abyss.
       I will try to use the same setup.  I will use my Zotl ZH230 (recent David Berning product) http://www.davidberning.com/,
http://www.davidberning.com/Files/reviews/Berning-ZH230-TAS-76862_eprint.pdf
  + Zotl preone preamplifier for volume control.   I will use the same music source from Munkong may be Ayre DSD DAC
  and some of his DSD files.
       The Zotl ZH230 have 30W speaker post.  I will connect the speaker post to the power supply of new Jecklin
  Float to drive the Jecklin.  The power supply of the Jecklin has another speaker post (for real speaker) but I will
  use that to connect with the transformer of the TakeT H2+.  All these connections I will use NBS jumpers (after
  I have tried several jumpers including the more expesive nordost valhalla I found out that NBS jumpers is the best)
  From the speaker post of the TakeT transformer I will connect with the banana plugs of the special custom made
  adapter cable from speaker post bananas to 4 pin XLR of the Abyss (this cable is made of Kimber Kable 8TC and
  I was confirmed that this will have minimal effect on the SQ ofJPS cable of the Abyss by JOe).  I hope I can directly compare
  all three headphones almost at the same time in the same setup  ( I have tried that before between new Jecklin Float,
  TakeT H2+ vs HE6, AKG K1000 and both the Jecklin and TakeT destroyed the HE6 and AKG K1000) IMO.


----------



## x838nwy

Quote: 





kiertijai said:


> _What amps will you be using for all those?_
> I can directly compare only 3 different headphones : new Jecklin Float QA, TakeT H2+ and JPS Abyss.
> I will try to use the same setup.  I will use my Zotl ZH230 (recent David Berning product) http://www.davidberning.com/,
> http://www.davidberning.com/Files/reviews/Berning-ZH230-TAS-76862_eprint.pdf
> ...


 
   
  The adaptor probably won't affect things too much considering all that's in the chain  I'd love to know how this all works out - just be careful withe the volume may be. Enjoy! (Perhaps try the Abyss with the headphones out on the Pre-One also??)


----------



## kiertijai

Yes I do agree that the adapter cable (30 cm length) may not have important effect on the SQ.
  However it is not the same with the jumper cables (used to connect the amplifier speaker post to Jecklin power
  supply and TR2 transformer of TakeT H2+).  I found out (after trying several jumper cables including
  nordost valhalla) that the sound from NBS jumpers is the best IMO .
  My preone have volume control so I can volume control .  I found out that the new Jecklin Float is easier to
  drive than the TakeT H2+ so I know how to handle that.  I will carefully try with the Abyss too.   My Preone preamplifier
  has headphone 6.3mm socket but I don't think it has enough power to drive the Abyss.
  I hope to have chance to audition Abyss with AudioGD precision one too.  Hope they arrive Thailand now and not
  get stuck at the Thai custom.


----------



## kiertijai

Munkong will show more pictures soon


----------



## kiertijai

Here are some of the pictures at Munkong


----------



## kiertijai

Here are some of the pictures at Munkong


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Omg lol


----------



## kiertijai

Here is the link at Munkong (more pictures) http://forum.munkonggadget.com/detail.php?id=122176
  All headphones : Orpheus, Sony MDR R10, Stax SR009, JPS Abyss AB-1266, TakeT H2+, new Jecklin float QA, LCD3, Fostex TH900
                               JVC DX2000, Audiotechnica W3000anv, HE6, HE500, AKG 702, Kingsound Emperor  etc.
  Amplifier : Bakoon, AudioGD, Burson conductor, Schiit Mjolnir, new AudioGD precision one (coming), Mal Valve Three, David Berning Zotl 230 + Preone
                    Woo, and other TNTC
  IC : mostly Nordost, Stealth Indra
  Music Server : Meridian
  DAC : Ayre DSD DAC, Mytek DSD, Meridian Explorer, Meridian Director, Benchmark DAC2, Chord chordette Q  etc.
  Headphone Stands : Klutz, Sieveking, CA, Woo, DIY
  Power AC : mostly Nordost, JPS Aluminata


----------



## kiertijai

All these will be able to audition  for all for one weeks at Munkong Flagship Amarin Plaza


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Mytek DSD! and woo amps!


----------



## x838nwy

The TakeT box is just too cool for words. It's the handle. If I ever win the lottery, I'll buy a pair just to have that box.


----------



## rgs9200m

Those Stealth ICs are great. I swear by them. They make all the difference. I've used them for 9 yrs.


----------



## kiertijai

For those who are interested there are more pictures and there is an English post by Warin's comment on several headphones (above links)


----------



## kiertijai

Another Views of the headphones displayed with Louis who made most of the setup for these headphones


----------



## kiertijai

Our Gungho (Big Bosses) : Munkong and Bious


----------



## kiertijai

The headphone collections another view


----------



## kiertijai

The headphone collections and stands at Munkong


----------



## kiertijai

Another important man behind the setup : Moowan with the setup


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WOW!!!


----------



## kiertijai

Diagram of the setup and systems used


----------



## kiertijai

Here is selected parts of comment of Warin about the JPS Abyss vs TakeT H2+ vs new Jecklin Float by Warin
(please also read full comment) http://forum.munkonggadget.com/detail.php?id=122176 thread 75

*Abyss AB-1266:* 
First impression I got from these are "accuracy" and "bold". Each sound and note is very tight. If metaphor is needed, I would depict the Abyss as a legion of well-disciplined marching soldier with thunder clamoring sound in their wake. They are just that tight! The bass, both quantity and quality wise, is fantastic. You can feel the oomph and the deep low shaking sound so well. Those who love hip-hop and beat will definitely like it. The songs are very engaging with this pair of headphones. Listening to some pop tracks such as "Rolling in the deep", I find that it might be too engaging for some situations. The wave of sound just keeps coming that I couldn't concentrate on other things. But there was no sign of fatigue that I felt from that. 

These cans are astonishingly good with rock, metal, hip hop and engaging genres of music. They also perform well with classical and audiophile track but you won't get the home-system-like atmosphere. They are designed to sound like a headphone! But I can assure that they got more than enough power to deliver the music beautifully. 

The overall emotion I got is that they are the most "fun" cans to me. They are definitely better than other planar magnetic breed but worth the price tag? It depends and I couldn’t say. The weight of these might feel heavy on hand but they sit quite well on your head ergonomically. Not stuffing at all too.


*takeT H2+: *feeling very real and laid-back, sounds so much like a home stereo system. They are light-weight and very comfortable to wear. The con is the system that has to be matched with them. They require the use of power amplifier. However, that means one investment that can be used for both home based and headphone based system!

Sonic-wise, they provide awesome dynamic sound. The drum beats are very life-like. Also, they have got very distinct atmosphere when listening. Female vocal is superb. On the other hand, they can sound very colored to some ears. A track with huge image of vocalist can be a tad too upfront to me. The only weakness of these is that they do not sound very engaging for genres like rock, metal. In conclusion, these pair of cans (okay I’ll call them can) are suitable for audiophile, jazz, classical genres and can be used for a very long period of time without fatigue. Those who love the atmosphere of home system will definitely love these. To be specific, the elder are sure to love them ha-ha. 


*Jecklin Float QA: *
just like the name states. They literally float on your head. First impression, comfort is top notch since they just sit on your head. But there is no sound isolation at all. It is like putting a pair of speakers next to your ears. You will need a room with some privacy to fully enjoy the pleasure that these headphones got to give. Another con, perhaps just to me, is the material of the headband kind of makes my head feel itchy.

Their sound is pretty similar to takeT H2+ in term of being home system-like but I would say Float QA is quite more of monitored type headphones and they sound more open comparatively. The clarity of the drum is somewhat less upfront, however, not in a negative way. Some people would find this kind of drum hitting sound more forgiving to their ears, when listening for a long period of time.

I would say they are monster of the same breed. But if I was to choose, I prefer Float QA to takeT H2+ because I personally feel they are more suitable to wider range of music.


----------



## Golfnutz

kiertijai said:


> Here is selected parts of comment of Warin about the JPS Abyss vs TakeT H2+ vs new Jecklin Float by Warin
> (please also read full comment) http://forum.munkonggadget.com/detail.php?id=122176 thread 75
> 
> *Abyss AB-1266:*
> ...


 
 OK, I'm confused... Is this a review or an advertisement for munkongadget dot com?


----------



## VisceriousZERO

golfnutz said:


> OK, I'm confused... Is this a review or an advertisement for munkongadget dot com?




well if you hit both birds with the same stone, why not?


----------



## MacedonianHero

visceriouszero said:


> well if you hit both birds with the same stone, why not?


 
 Because that qualifies as spam.


----------



## x838nwy

That's a lot of gear. I believe it all belongs to one person. I'm so gonna show my wife these photos as evidence that I am totally not spending too much on audio gear.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

macedonianhero said:


> Because that qualifies as spam.


 
  
 but he did kind of review them while not exactly but oh so subtly promoting munkong?


----------



## MacedonianHero

visceriouszero said:


> but he did kind of review them while not exactly but oh so subtly promoting munkong?


 
 Then it was spam-ish.


----------



## wink

I was reeeeeaaaaallllll impressed until I saw that "Beats by Dr Dre" in the collection.
  
 Cull it out before it infects the others.......


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wink said:


> I was reeeeeaaaaallllll impressed until I saw that "Beats by Dr Dre" in the collection.
> 
> Cull it out before it infects the others.......


 
  
 +1
  
 was surprised in one of the pics to see the beats studio AND the beats pro all the way at the top of the shelfs


----------



## wink

Have they no SHAME....?
  
 I don't mind the posts showing what Munkong sells.....  Just make sure they sell them to us at half retail.....


----------



## kiertijai

_[IHave they no SHAME....?



I don't mind the posts showing what Munkong sells..... Just make sure they sell them to us at half retail.....
]_[/I]

I apologize for the confusion made by posting the pictures of the headphone and headphone stands at Munkong.
There is zero intention for promoting Munkong. Most of the hiend headphones belong to one person's collection and not of Munkong's. Warin is also another participant but he is very active and enthusiastic to write what he thinks is useful. He had to go through 10 hiend headphones (most of them can not be purchased there : Orpheus, R10, TakeT H2, new Jecklin Float QA, SR 009 , Fostex TH900 etc how can these headphones be commercial when the owner will not sell these parts of collections to anyone??), made notes with his ipad and shared his opinion in that thread. I thought there are useful informations for the head-fi community so I asked their permissions to show some of the pictures and their comments. Again the pictures of headphone and headphones stands was the mistake made by me. More review will come in that thread comparing the new Jecklin Float, TakeT H2+ and JPS Abyss using the speaker post setup which was not reviewed previously.

In Thailand we have small meetings like this from time to time and in some DIY club they showed their DIY earphones like those of New Jecklin Float , Orpheus and Stax with great result and those also are not for commercial but for their strong interest in headphone audiophile.


----------



## erotisches

wink said:


> I was reeeeeaaaaallllll impressed until I saw that "Beats by Dr Dre" in the collection.
> 
> Cull it out before it infects the others.......


 

  
 Totally agree! I hope other headphones are immune to Dr Dre disease haha.
 They might just put the Beats on top of the shelf because they are rarely auditioned by someone so they don't have to climb up often lol.
  
  


wink said:


> Have they no SHAME....?
> 
> I don't mind the posts showing what Munkong sells.....  Just make sure they sell them to us at half retail.....


 
  
 Come on, don't start the flame lol. I'm against them posting what they are selling too. It's kinda like promoting Munkong but that's just one picture, no? And as kiertijai mentioned, they are loaned by a single person so I think it is not their intention to do marketing (not that they could get more customers posting here though). It's kinda like hijacking the thread if they just start posting the review one by one but they still limited to comparison b/w Abyss/takeT/Float. That should be fine. Maybe it's more appropriate to start the new thread but this is like a continuing episode from the earlier.
  
 Just contact the mod if you think it's inappropriate and maybe, only leave the pics audition scene in the thread and also blur all Munkong poster lol
  
 Nice pictures though. I'm impressed that they can gather so many good cans at one place. Would love to hear more about Abyss! Please continue with appreciations and impressions, you rich folks


----------



## wink

My apologies, kiertijai, for giving you the wrong impression. In context of your post, I have no problems with you mentioning Munkong.
  
 I was extremely impressed with the collection.
  
 I can see that I will have to make more judicious use of the emoticons and sarcasm meter as each post requires.


----------



## MuppetFace

Linking to a set of impressions from another site shouldn't be construed as spam automatically, especially if they are relevant to the discussion. The site Kiertijai linked to was discussing the meet in which the impressions were taken. Had Kiertijai just posted impressions without any link as reference, I'm sure other people would have chimed in saying "where do these impressions come from?"
  
 Spam is posting stuff that isn't helpful or generally construed as 'garbage,' and this entails linking to another site _for the purpose of promoting that site or yourself_. I do not see kiertijai's post as that at all. Kiertijai is one of the most dedicated people I've met in this hobby, and one of the most free of pretenses. His post actually contributed a lot by linking to impressions with a lot of helpful information. The real irony is, the posts that were trying to call him out on spamming were actually more like spam in that they basically increased the noise to signal ratio in this thread.
  
 Excellent impressions, by the way. I think they're spot on based on my experience of owning the three headphones. For my tastes it's more or less
  
 Abyss > Floats > TakeT
  
 Though the Floats are also favorites of mine right now, with their own distinct type of presentation and sound. The Abyss just hits _hard _in comparison. The bass on the TakeT is actually more plentiful to me (they sound bassier), but control and tightness of the Abyss are much more precise.


----------



## shipsupt

If you're concerned about a few adverts showing up in a post, perhaps this place is not for you...  Have you seen all the adds that are on these head-fi pages now!!!??  Complete with roll over sound.
  
  
  
  
  
 Thanks for sharing the fresh impressions kiertijai.


----------



## Golfnutz

kiertijai said:


> _[IHave they no SHAME....?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the post Kiertijai, I think that helps to put it in perspective.


----------



## kiertijai

Thanks for all the feedbacks.
I myself found that the three headphones mentioned have different flavours. It depends on the music I would like
to play, which mood I am in to choose which phones to use so I may connect all three with the speaker post
setup (as seen in the thread) but I will take the TakeT H2+ out when I will play the Abyss. With the speaker
post setup I think the bass slam is very had (I totally agree with Muppetface here)
and if I need a more gentle touch from the Abyss I will connect
it with the Mal Valve Three in fully balanced setup.
Here is another picture from the meeting that everyone tried bringing their gears and moving the components
around to try new things , hope more impressions will come.


----------



## purrin

Thanks for sharing as always. Looks like you guys had a lot of fun.


----------



## livewire

purrin said:


> Thanks for sharing as always. Looks like you guys had a lot of fun.


 
  
  
*^^^ DITTO!*
  
 Very informative, high drool factor.


----------



## Happy Camper

They certainly have some gear. If food is brought in, it could be a two day event.


----------



## kiertijai

This will be a seven day event. 
they can have food and refreshment easily as the Amarin Plaza has the food court
one flight of stair above.
I think more impresson may come this weekend as more several Thai head-fiers will surely
attend the meeting


----------



## x838nwy

kiertijai said:


> This will be a seven day event.
> they can have food and refreshment easily as the Amarin Plaza has the food court
> one flight of stair above.
> I think more impresson may come this weekend as more several Thai head-fiers will surely
> attend the meeting




I'm totally going to raid the place and nick all your gear.


----------



## Happy Camper

kiertijai said:


> This will be a seven day event.
> they can have food and refreshment easily as the Amarin Plaza has the food court
> one flight of stair above.
> I think more impresson may come this weekend as more several Thai head-fiers will surely
> attend the meeting


A week would be great.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

As of now, I am listening to Jazz At The Pawnshop 24/88.2 thru Audirvana + Invicta Mirus + ECBA + Abyss.
  
 This is amazing.


----------



## Sasoriofsand

I have a th900 and T1... really like the abyss(just found it ugly)... would like to know what amp would be best if I got it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

People use cavalli liquid gold, but i think a gsx mk2 would be better. Havent heard the abyss out of gsx mk2 unfortunately. but didnt enjoy it out of liquid gold, didnt like lcd-3 off there either,

I think some people have gotten the burson amps for it as well. But generally a TOTL amp for it


----------



## MuppetFace

sasoriofsand said:


> I have a th900 and T1... really like the abyss(just found it ugly)... would like to know what amp would be best if I got it.


 
  
  
 The Liquid Gold (aka LAu) + Abyss is hands down one of the best synergistic combos out there in my opinion. In fact, I personally feel few dedicated headphone amps can touch the LAu when it comes to driving orthos in general, praise I don't dispense lightly. I also feel my LCD-3 and HE-6 sounded their best off of it. Several well known orthophiles are also very fond of the LAu for that very reason. Other Abyss owners like the LAu too: Spkrs01 ended up buying one, and Purrin was fond of it as well (he's also fond of the GSXmk2, but incidentally feels it's not that great of a match with the Abyss).
  
 The Abyss however is *not* a picky headphone. You don't need to invest a lot of money in an amp for it. In fact, Purrin is going to drive it with an $120 amp just for Schiits and giggles.


----------



## zerodeefex

dubstep girl said:


> People use cavalli liquid gold, but i think a gsx mk2 would be better. Havent heard the abyss out of gsx mk2 unfortunately. but didnt enjoy it out of liquid gold, didnt like lcd-3 off there either,
> 
> I think some people have gotten the burson amps for it as well. But generally a TOTL amp for it




So you're making a recommendation for an amp you own over one you haven't heard with this headphone? An amp that's considered to be one of the BEST pairings by owners of the headphone? One that you've heard only briefly during meet conditions on a completely different headphone?

Let me try that too. Oh, I think the balanced supersymmetry Dynahi would be a much better pairing than the GS-X mk2 since it puts our way more power than a balanced dynalo (even a dynalo+)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

LCD-3 and even the HE-500 sounded better to me out of the GSX MK2 than the Abyss and LAu, so yes.


----------



## zerodeefex

I heard the GS-X mk2 with the HD800s for 5 minutes. I wouldn't dump on the amp based off that nor would I speculate on whether it would pair well with other headphones.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i can usually tell if somethings good or not. doesnt take more than a few minutes of serious concentration to be able to notice a difference. its always worked for me.
  
 LCD-3 vs LCD-2 for example, pretty quick to see the difference, HD 800 vs Stax, same thing. longer listening usually gives the same impressions, same with other amps and headphones ive tried. initial impressions generally match longer listening impressions, at least for me, with longer listening simply being a little more detailed and specific. but the initial listen should be enough to hear how good its supposed to be or not. otherwise, if you struggle to hear a difference, or don't feel theres an improvement, its not worth the time or money since it probably isn't.


----------



## zerodeefex

everyone can get general impressions at a meet. I'm pointing your posts out because you have a habit of poo pooing everything Cavalli. A few months ago, you lovedddd every Woo FOTM and now that you have the gs-x mk2, it's the second coming of frankampenstein.

Anyone in the SF Bay Area know of local dealers with the Abyss? I can't find any.


----------



## spkrs01

I would like to add that it is very difficult to actually get to hear how damn good the Abyss is from a meet scenario.......I have had the Abyss with the Cavalli LAu for two weeks now, allowing for burn in, it has taken me about 8-9 days to dial the Abyss in. Every little adjustment changes the sound presentation....from widening the headband, changing angles and rotating the ear cups. With this in mind, any serious potential purchasers should take up the loan programme from the Cable company in the States.
  
 How does the Abyss sound? In Hong Kong there are many die hard audiophiles that shoe horns a US$300k to half a million system into a 120-200 sq.ft room and make it sound good. The Abyss is reminiscent of these home system less the visceral impact.
  
 I have listened to the Abyss with the Violectric V200 and the sonics are remarkably very good! With the LAu, it is sublime...........


----------



## Dubstep Girl

zerodeefex said:


> everyone can get general impressions at a meet. I'm pointing your posts out because you have a habit of poo pooing everything Cavalli. A few months ago, you lovedddd every Woo FOTM and now that you have the gs-x mk2, it's the second coming of frankampenstein.
> 
> Anyone in the SF Bay Area know of local dealers with the Abyss? I can't find any.


 
  
 the GS-X mk2 is the best amp i've heard, destroys every woo, eddie current, schiit, burson, cavalli, ray, and just about everything else i've heard.
  
 and it does it with EVERY headphone i've tried it on, nothing disappoints, its truly a wire-with-gain transparent pretty much perfect hell of an amp, a masterpiece, its a game changer in the solid-state world.


----------



## BournePerfect

dubstep girl said:


> the GS-X mk2 is the best amp i've heard, destroys every woo, eddie current, schiit, burson, cavalli, ray, and just about everything else i've heard.
> 
> and it does it with EVERY headphone i've tried it on, nothing disappoints, its truly a wire-with-gain transparent pretty much perfect hell of an amp, a masterpiece, its a game changer in the solid-state world.


 
  
 Lol.


----------



## Radio_head

.


----------



## Radio_head

dubstep girl said:


> the GS-X mk2 is the best amp i've heard, destroys every woo, eddie current, schiit, burson, cavalli, ray, and just about everything else i've heard.
> 
> and it does it with EVERY headphone i've tried it on, nothing disappoints, its truly a wire-with-gain transparent pretty much perfect hell of an amp, a masterpiece, its a game changer in the solid-state world.


 
 +1.
  
 You guys are all just jealous of how perfect Dubstep's amp is.  I wish Dubstep many hours with her Mytek/GS-X/T1 combo.


----------



## Questhate

That notion is absurd. The Fiio E11 is the perfect, most transparent, wire-with-gain amp ever. It is the masterpiece to end all masterpieces. You people with your fancy amps with your fancy knobs are just under the spell of confirmation bias. The E11 did not need an mk2, because Fiio got it right the first time.


----------



## Hutnicks

questhate said:


> That notion is absurd. The Fiio E11 is the perfect, most transparent, wire-with-gain amp ever. It is the masterpiece to end all masterpieces. You people with your fancy amps with your fancy knobs are just under the spell of confirmation bias. The E11 did not need an mk2, because Fiio got it right the first time.


 

 Nope. Firestone Fireye Mark I. Absolutely no controls whatsoever putting it in the class of amps costing 10's of thousands more


----------



## ultrabike

dubstep girl said:


> the GS-X mk2 is the best amp i've heard, destroys every woo, eddie current, schiit, burson, cavalli, ray, and just about everything else i've heard.
> 
> and it does it with EVERY headphone i've tried it on, nothing disappoints, its truly a wire-with-gain transparent pretty much perfect hell of an amp, a masterpiece, its a game changer in the solid-state world.


 
  
 Wait a minute, I thought that was the Objective 2!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ultrabike said:


> Wait a minute, I thought that was the Objective 2!


 
 LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## wink

Quote:Hutnicks 





> questhate said:
> 
> 
> > That notion is absurd. The Fiio E11 is the perfect, most transparent, wire-with-gain amp ever. It is the masterpiece to end all masterpieces. You people with your fancy amps with your fancy knobs are just under the spell of confirmation bias. The E11 did not need an mk2, because Fiio got it right the first time.
> ...


 
 The starving student is all you need to power *ANY* headphone - Anything else is severe overkill.....


----------



## Happy Camper

wink said:


> The starving student is all you need to power *ANY* headphone - Anything else is severe overkill.....


LOL


----------



## driver 8

dubstep girl said:


> People use cavalli liquid gold, but i think a gsx mk2 would be better. Havent heard the abyss out of gsx mk2 unfortunately. but didnt enjoy it out of liquid gold, didnt like lcd-3 off there either,
> 
> I think some people have gotten the burson amps for it as well. But generally a TOTL amp for it


 

 FWIW I think there was something going on with the source setup these were plugged into (we're talking about the last ChiUnify, right?).  The sound of both headphones had characteristics I haven't heard any other users express and at one point, while I was using the Liquid Glass, little pops started to occur on the digital end.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

driver 8 said:


> FWIW I think there was something going on with the source setup these were plugged into (we're talking about the last ChiUnify, right?).  The sound of both headphones had characteristics I haven't heard any other users express and at one point, while I was using the Liquid Glass, little pops started to occur on the digital end.


 
  
 yes
  
 think they weren't setup right? or there where hardware/software issues then? like the setup itself sounded good cause of course it was alot of expensive stuff, but there was issues with the overall coherency of the presentation, and a bit of a confusing sound, at least thats what i heard. its hard to explain.


----------



## driver 8

Software may have been wigging out a bit and the treble weirdness I heard sounded a lot like unfavorable impressions I've read of the Mytek, which was the DAC being used and didn't match other experiences I've had with the 009's (including the pair I own now) or anything I've read about the LL or LAu.  This is all speculation, of course *shrug*.  
  
 -Edit-
  
 Though, objectively speaking, the pops meant _something_ was up.  It's a phenomenon I've heard with other source devices before, usually requiring a restart.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i ended up buying the mytek because i wanted to try it out. and im convinced that any harshness and treble issues only appear in the first couple weeks and after burn-in, its a very nice DAC. transparent, revealing, yet musical. maybe the mytek there wasn't burned in yet, or some software issues could of been causing it. cause with the GSX mk2, the pairing is perfect, and i never thought i would end up liking a solid-state setup.


----------



## driver 8

Could be.  I've observed burn-in in some of my own solid state gear before (rather drastic in some instances) so I could certainly believe that.
  
 -Edit- (I need to stop posting so hastily)
  
 I've never personally heard such burn-in take weeks, though.  My Conductor, for instance, actually sounded kinda bright and thin for the first _night_ I used it.  Nowadays I'm wondering if it's too warm...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

driver 8 said:


> Could be.  I've observed burn-in in some of my own solid state gear before (rather drastic in some instances) so I could certainly believe that.


 
  
 i sure heard it in my mytek.
  
 the first few days, i wasn't sure if i was gonna like it or not. cause it sounded digital and despite the detail and clarity, it was kinda harsh sounding.  
  
 but it did improve and now i love it. might explain why some of the reviews where mixed.


----------



## Jd007

if you didn't set the jumpers in the internal gain pads the default output level of the mytek dac is higher than usual which could cause distortions or clipping with certain amps.


----------



## ohotonge

http://ko.goldenears.net/board/3843760#27
This is the measurement. Looking good, if slightly weird. Almost perfectly match with Golden Ears FR target. Enlish version will be updated shortly, i believe.


----------



## vid

^ The diaphragm seems a bit out of control.


----------



## MacedonianHero

vid said:


> ^ The diaphragm seems a bit out of control.


 
 A bit out of control?  Wowza....not something I'd be happy with and at $5000+?


----------



## wink

but.... but.... it sounds good,,,, well, sorta.......
  
 Ok, for the timid of heart,


----------



## purrin

vid said:


> ^ The diaphragm seems a bit out of control.


 
  
 Keep in mind GE's timescale is short and he also uses smoothing and FFT window rise times which are a bit too lengthy for this application (this tends to smear things)
  

  
 Here's another look. The 9k ridge is an issue, but albeit a minor one. But otherwise the decay from 2-9k is extremely fast.


----------



## MacedonianHero

^
  
 Keep in mind, regardless, this is pretty poor performance when compared to other headphones that cost significantly less.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 http://en.goldenears.net/15149
  
 http://en.goldenears.net/22602
  
 among others.


----------



## ultrabike

You mean like the SR009 MH?


----------



## MacedonianHero

ultrabike said:


> You mean like the SR009 MH?


 
 See the ones I listed.


----------



## ultrabike

I think there are tradeoffs there MH 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










. AFAIK the Abyss does better in mid-bass non-linear distortion, while maintaining better bass extension and balance than the STAX line up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Also those CSD control issues can to some extent be mitigated through equalization, but non-linear distortion is another story 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## MuppetFace

Before the Abyss was even released some folks were insisting the diaphragm was supposedly going to be unstable, that it was going to practically fly out of the assembly under duress, that there was going to be a ton of distortion. Having talked to people who actually have experience with planar magnetics---both in the industry and out---personally I'm not remotely worried. So far as I can tell the design choices that went into the Abyss were deliberate, the result of one philosophy over another, one target over another.
  
 You can cherry pick things to suit whatever point you're trying to make. It ultimately amounts to looking at trees instead of the forest. There are plenty of other headphones that do very specific things better than the Abyss----the HD800 is a better detail extractor, the R10 renders strings with more character, the SR-007 has smoother highs---but the Abyss offers a _pretty compelling combination of strengths for some folks_. Personally, no other headphone has a bass response as well controlled yet visceral as the Abyss to my ears. No other headphone mimics the sound of a good speaker setup as closely as the Abyss to my ears. No other headphone has an overall FR balance quite like the Abyss (similar to modified T50RPs like the Paradox and some of the HiFiMan models) while performing as well in areas like detail extraction to my ears. Additionally, the Abyss sounds great to me when driven from a $500 vintage speaker amp. The SR-009 on the other hand _requires_ an amp in excess of $2k.
  
 As far as the whole "this isn't acceptable for X amount of money" thing goes... please. Trying to argue for what's acceptable in summit-fi is like one madman condemning another because the voices in _his _head aren't conjugating properly. We justify things to ourselves in any number of ways, and cherry picking certain measurements is just another example, be it to convince others (or really ourselves) that a certain product is great or not. Honestly I think it's a little telling when the most vehement objectors to the Abyss in this thread---and other threads---are the same few people _who haven't even listened to it_.


----------



## purrin

nvm


----------



## warrenpchi

My thanks in advance to everyone that stays civil, and who refrains from making personal comments.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Also...


----------



## up late

there's summit fi and then there's stratos fi. the abyss and sr009 are a big leap in price over other totl cans. if you're willing to fork out the cash for them i figure you won't be settling for a budget source and amp. 

don't see the point in judging this or any can on the measurements alone. but the measurements look pretty good to me anyways. would love to give it a shot.


----------



## MuppetFace

up late said:


> if you're willing to fork out the cash for them i figure you won't be settling for a budget source and amp.


 
  
 Don't tell that to Purrin! He's planning on driving the Abyss with the Schiit Vali ($120) LOL.


----------



## up late

well we've all gotta start somewhere I guess. the abyss should scale well if he ever gets the itch to upgrade.


----------



## x838nwy

up late said:


> well we've all gotta start somewhere I guess. the abyss should scale well if he ever gets the itch to upgrade.




The Vali would be over-kill. I recommend the fiio e1 as a starting point. Quality amplification right there.


----------



## wink

I recommend the Starving Student for that mean hungry sonic signature......


----------



## rudi0504

muppetface said:


> Before the Abyss was even released some folks were insisting the diaphragm was supposedly going to be unstable, that it was going to practically fly out of the assembly under duress, that there was going to be a ton of distortion. Having talked to people who actually have experience with planar magnetics---both in the industry and out---personally I'm not remotely worried. So far as I can tell the design choices that went into the Abyss were deliberate, the result of one philosophy over another, one target over another.
> 
> You can cherry pick things to suit whatever point you're trying to make. It ultimately amounts to looking at trees instead of the forest. There are plenty of other headphones that do very specific things better than the Abyss----the HD800 is a better detail extractor, the R10 renders strings with more character, the SR-007 has smoother highs---but the Abyss offers a _pretty compelling combination of strengths for some folks_. Personally, no other headphone has a bass response as well controlled yet visceral as the Abyss to my ears. No other headphone mimics the sound of a good speaker setup as closely as the Abyss to my ears. No other headphone has an overall FR balance quite like the Abyss (similar to modified T50RPs like the Paradox and some of the HiFiMan models) while performing as well in areas like detail extraction to my ears. Additionally, the Abyss sounds great to me when driven from a $500 vintage speaker amp. The SR-009 on the other hand _requires_ an amp in excess of $2k.
> 
> ...




Hi MF

I am agree with you , I have some high end headphones like Stax sr 007 mk2, sr 009 , Audeze LCD 3 , Sennheiser HD 800 , Bayerdynamic T1 and 
Fostex TH 900 .
That Abyss has the closest SQ to my home speakers

Minus : Abyss is power hungry 

 With my high end portable amps can sing very good but not to the high end level SQ 
 Like with my Theorem 720 DAC and Alo Rx 3 B + Cyberlabs Class dB 2

 With my tube Pre Amp T + A P 10.2 high end home audio , I can hear the strong point 
 From Abyss 1266 the SQ reproduction is the closest to home speaker .

IMO


----------



## rudi0504

My best portable set up with Abyss 1266:

Source : iPhone 4 s 
Dac : cyberlabs class dBo , 2.00 Vrms
Amp : RSA the Intruder 
Cable : Moon audio silver dragon v1 mini to Lod


----------



## MuppetFace

rudi0504 said:


> Minus : Abyss is power hungry


 
  
  
 I really think it depends on where you're coming from in this case. Personally, I think people tend to exaggerate the power requirements of orthos in general, but even in a relative sense the Abyss isn't as hard to drive as something like the HE-5 or HE-6. Also the Abyss isn't as synergistically picky as the HiFiMan orthos, which I think is even more important. Abyss owners seem to be finding a fairly wide range of nice-sounding pairings as a result.
  
 Now, personally I find the Abyss does require a fair amount of gain. As Purrin pointed out (I think elsewhere?) however, some folks conflate gain with power. It's still a consideration though if you're planning on using the Abyss with portable gear. Like, it's not something I'd want to use with most DAP's internal amps for instance (unless it has crazy attenuation room like the DX1000...). I'd say that from the perspective of many portable audio users, the use of a portable amp constitutes hunger. Compared to orthos in general though, the Abyss isn't some crazy hard load.
  
 Also there's always going to be the question of "driving well" and "driving really well." The Abyss does scale up, and with a more powerful amp I find improvements in driver control and articulation. I find it still sounds really great with certain less powerful amps however.


----------



## rudi0504

muppetface said:


> I really think it depends on where you're coming from in this case. Personally, I think people tend to exaggerate the power requirements of orthos in general, but even in a relative sense the Abyss isn't as hard to drive as something like the HE-5 or HE-6. Also the Abyss isn't as synergistically picky as the HiFiMan orthos, which I think is even more important. Abyss owners seem to be finding a fairly wide range of nice-sounding pairings as a result.
> 
> Now, personally I find the Abyss does require a fair amount of gain. As Purrin pointed out (I think elsewhere?) however, some folks conflate gain with power. It's still a consideration though if you're planning on using the Abyss with portable gear. Like, it's not something I'd want to use with most DAP's internal amps for instance (unless it has crazy attenuation room like the DX1000...). I'd say that from the perspective of many portable audio users, the use of a portable amp constitutes hunger. Compared to orthos in general though, the Abyss isn't some crazy hard load.
> 
> Also there's always going to be the question of "driving well" and "driving really well." The Abyss does scale up, and with a more powerful amp I find improvements in driver control and articulation. I find it still sounds really great with certain less powerful amps however.




Thank you MF for your explanation

What I mean here about power hungry compare to my LCD 2 rev 3 and LCD 3 
If i pair With My T+ A P 10.2 My volume set at 12 O clock , With Abyss about 15 O clock


----------



## rudi0504

I have paired Abyss with Pico Power 

Source : iPhone 4s
Dac : Venture Craft Go Dap DD1 LE 12 Volt with op amp Muse 02
Amp : Pico Power 
Headphone : Abyss 1266

SQ : excellent SQ with these portable set up 
IMO


----------



## rudi0504

I want sharing my portable set up with Abyss 1266 like follow :

SQ is very good to excellent and have Power to drive Abyss are
Pico Power 
RSA the Intruder 
Alo RX 3 B














SQ is excellent and high end , Power is enough to drive Abyss are :
Wagnus Epsilon S , has slightly more of power than Ko Bo to drive Abyss in high end SQ 
Mass Ko Bo 385 has more power than Ko Jo KM - 01
Ko Jo KM - 01 just enough power for night listening with quiet environment








Dacs pair very good with Abyss are :

Venture Craft Go Dap DD1 LE 12 Volt with muse 02
Cyberlabs Class DB 2.00 Vrms
Cyberlabs Class Solo Old version 

Dac / Amp pair very good with Abyss are :

Cyberlabs Theorem 720 SQ to warm sounding Abyss 














IMO


----------



## Sasoriofsand

I have a dark star... will that be enough to drive the phones? If its ok i will get the phones within the week


----------



## spkrs01

sasoriofsand said:


> I have a dark star... will that be enough to drive the phones? If its ok i will get the phones within the week


 
  
 If Rudi is driving the Abyss out of portables rigs, the Dark Star totally..............and please let us know your thoughts when you proceed with a purchase!


----------



## rudi0504

sasoriofsand said:


> I have a dark star... will that be enough to drive the phones? If its ok i will get the phones within the week







spkrs01 said:


> If Rudi is driving the Abyss out of portables rigs, the Dark Star totally..............and please let us know your thoughts when you proceed with a purchase!




With Dark star you have plenty of power to drive Abyss
Recommendation from Joe are desktops amps for his wonderful Abyss 
With desktops Amps can make Abyss more shining than use portable Amos like me


----------



## MuppetFace

rudi0504 said:


> portable Amos


 
  
 A pocket-sized Currawong?
  
 But yes, Rudi and Spkrs are correct, the Dark Star will be plenty powerful for the Abyss.
 If it has enough juice for the HE-6, it certainly has enough for the Abyss.


----------



## Currawong

You guys drive me to drink, I swear.
  
 About powering headphones: The "good enough" thing is kind-of nonsense, but having had a Studio Six here for a few weeks, it does make other amps seem far less capable, relatively. I've had the same experience with SET amps and speakers versus very good solid state units. What people are really saying is when talking about "good enough" is: The headphones scale, seriously, and holy heck, you should hear them out of a top headphone amp or speaker amp, it really is on another level. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Something a manufacturer said to me on the weekend was, to the effect of: We're not here because we want good enough. We want _better_ than just good enough.


----------



## dukeskd

I, for one, would sell everything and just settle with a pocket sized Amos.


----------



## Radio_head

dukeskd said:


> I, for one, would sell everything and just settle with a pocket sized Amos.


 
 I already got to listen to a pre-prod and noticed it sounded very shouty and blurred all the details.  Subsequent measurements found a BAC of 0.24.


----------



## rgs9200m

sasoriofsand said:


> I have a dark star... will that be enough to drive the phones? If its ok i will get the phones within the week


 
 The B52 drives them just great. I do use a warmish interconnect (Cardas Golden Cross is great, as the very well naturally defined bass of the phones make up for the slightly slow bass of these cables).
 But I just melt when I listen to these phones on the B52, with a spacious friendly well defined non-analytic sound. It's what I was hoping R10s would sound like (but was disappointed and sold them).


----------



## x838nwy

sasoriofsand said:


> I have a dark star... will that be enough to drive the phones? If its ok i will get the phones within the week


 
  
 Seriously, dude. Was that really a question or just some strange statement?


----------



## rudi0504

After heard about 5 days I have decided to buy Abyss 1266 planar headphone , the poison so strong I can not go back without Abyss 1266

Today my Abyss just arrived , my Jaben local store brought hand carry from Singapore .

the stand and the outer box left in Singapore , they bring me later on 

I am so happy with my decision to choose Abyss 1266 headphone , SQ so excellent 

Below is out the box pictures :















Paring with Asus Xonar dac amp Muse 01 edition belong to my friend

Source : QLS Hi Fi QA 660 mod 
Amp : Asus Xonar Muse 01 edition mod
Headphone : Abyss 1266

SQ : excellent high end sound quality , like home speaker 






IMO


----------



## purrin

rudi0504 said:


> After heard about 5 days I have decided to buy Abyss 1266 planar headphone , _*the poison so strong *_I can not go back without Abyss 1266


 
  
 I know exactly how you feel.
  
 Do you plan on running them from a portabl? I tried in on one of my portable amos - the Leckerton. It sounds pretty good - rather surprised.


----------



## rudi0504

purrin said:


> I know exactly how you feel.
> 
> Do you plan on running them from a portabl? I tried in on one of my portable amos - the Leckerton. It sounds pretty good - rather surprised.




Thank you purrin for your help with your impression 
Please try it with Hi Fi M8 , please choose very good Lod to USB , you will get audiophile portable SQ 

For the best result I pair with my desktop pre amp tube T+A P 10.2


----------



## VisceriousZERO

On a business trip to Malaysia, I left my 1266 at home... I miss them now.


----------



## rudi0504

visceriouszero said:


> On a business trip to Malaysia, I left my 1266 at home... I miss them now.




Hi VZ 
I am sure everybody who own Abyss can miss Abyss so much like me too 
For traveling is impossible to use in the plane , your neighbour can be angry 
In the car during traffic jam I use Hi Fi M8 / Cyberlabs Theorem with iPhone 4S to pair with Abyss 
Or 3 stack : iPhone 4S + Go Dap DD 1 LE 12 Volt with Muse 02 + Pico Power / Intruder 

These two are very good for traveling use 

Enjoy your trip


----------



## VisceriousZERO

rudi0504 said:


> Hi VZ
> I am sure everybody who own Abyss can miss Abyss so much like me too
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks man,
  
 I have tried it as well with The International by ALO and the Intruder by RSA. Both are very good amps IMO to use with it. I also got to try it with my ipod classic-GoDAP 12v LTD-Apex Glacier and it did very well.
  
 At home i use it with my Macbook Pro-Invicta Mirus-Cavalli LAu.


----------



## rudi0504

visceriouszero said:


> Thanks man,
> 
> I have tried it as well with The International by ALO and the Intruder by RSA. Both are very good amps IMO to use with it. I also got to try it with my ipod classic-GoDAP 12v LTD-Apex Glacier and it did very well.
> 
> At home i use it with my Macbook Pro-Invicta Mirus-Cavalli LAu.




I haven't heard LAu according to Gavin and Joe is excellent SQ


----------



## Naras

Just put everything together and 5 minutes in these puppies are surprisingly comfortable.  I parted ways with the LCD3 in March, but from what I remember, the Abyss are definitely more comfortable.  
  
 Big thanks to Joe at Cable Co. and Joe at JPS for the great and friendly service.  I haven't known them for long, but am definitely glad that I do.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

naras said:


> Just put everything together and 5 minutes in these puppies are surprisingly comfortable.  I parted ways with the LCD3 in March, but from what I remember, the Abyss are definitely more comfortable.
> 
> Big thanks to Joe at Cable Co. and Joe at JPS for the great and friendly service.  I haven't known them for long, but am definitely glad that I do.


 
  
 Agreed on both fronts


----------



## spkrs01

This has not been mentioned much so I thought :-
  
  
 "A quick guide to adjustments that *works perfectly for me *in making the Abyss sound sensational"
  
  
 The Abyss needs to be adjusted as if you were placing a pair of speakers in a room. As Dave Wilson say, " an inch here or there will make all the difference". With the Abyss a few mm here or there, is all it takes.
  
  
 - attach the ear cups with the stitching pointing straight ahead, or at 90 degrees
  
 - with the Abyss on, one needs to adjust the bass performance and to do this, pull the drivers away from your ears and you should notice the bass increasing. Adjust the headband outwards. 
  
 - repeat the above until you will get to a point where you are at the fine line of, the Abyss having near perfect bass or sounding diffused
  
 - with the bass dialed in, It is time to adjust the tonal balance. This basically requires the rotation of the ear cups. I will refer to the stitching, moving it upwards increases the highs and downwards the bass. It is a matter of adjusting the cups for personal preference, and allowing for upstream components.
  
  
Once dialed in, for me, the Abyss is by far my favorite pair of Headphones......................


----------



## VisceriousZERO

spkrs01 said:


> This has not been mentioned much so I thought :-
> 
> 
> "A quick guide to adjustments that *works perfectly for me* in making the Abyss sound sensational"
> ...




Omgwat i never knew that


----------



## x838nwy

visceriouszero said:


> Omgwat i never knew that


 
 Is this not in the manual? Thought it'd be pretty important to add in amongst all the other stuff that came with it. (I might have to save that post for when I buy my pair… in like 20 years.)


----------



## spkrs01

Here's a song that sounds magnificent on the Abyss especially the drums and cymbals.
  
 The song is from the album "Jazz Them Up" by canto-jazz artist Bianca Wu. It is in Mandarin which I don't understand but damn it sounds great! 
  

  
  
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/61845253/01%20-%20%E8%83%A1%E7%90%B3%20-%20%E6%88%91%E6%98%AF%E4%B8%8D%E6%98%AF%E8%A9%B2%E5%AE%89%E9%9D%9C%E7%9A%84%E8%B5%B0%E9%96%8B.flac
  
 EDIT:
 I will leave the link up for a day if anyone is interested.


----------



## nickif

That's the most interesting thread I've read for a while, sounds a lot of fun


----------



## arnaud

I find this interesting that you're playing with the leakage from cushion to adjust the bass level. This is bound to push the mid bass and rolloff the sub-bass, thus artificially increasing bass presence. The same can be done with any planar or stat phone to the same effect actually,

 I was trying, but never achieved, to get a proper seal with the abyss when I tried it the other day, now I understand this lack of seal is per design then?


----------



## spkrs01

Arnaud
  
 Hiya there! 
  
 When I asked you last weekend how you found the Abyss, I kinda knew exactly what you heard as you were trying to achieve a seal on them. I would imagine you heard them like a pair of IEMs, pretty clean and clear sounding...not much bass, perhaps slightly harsh in the lower highs................
  
 I find rather than_ artificially_ increasing bass, it is more part and parcel of how the Abyss are and their adjustment. When I pull the cups out with other planars such as the LCD3, what I achieve is a diffused sound with a sense of an increase in the mid bass but muddy and slow and not really enhancing anything positively. Contrary to popular believe, it is bass and in particular lower bass performance that defines soundstaging, and the Abyss has one of the largest most realistic soundstages that I have head from a pair headphone, and for me surpassing the great HD800 in this department..........
  
 You should try the Abyss again hopefully with it better adjusted, and away from the norm that is associated with Headphones of "obtaining a seal".
  
 Hope to see you again, next year.........
  
 Gavin


----------



## Naras

Not sure if this was mentioned in a previous post, but to echo Gavin's post above, JPS labs also said that I won't need a perfect seal, and I'll want to let in some air for a better bass response. This must be why there are so many adjustment options on the Abyss.

Also, to add to Gavin's excellent "start-up" guide, the mechanism at the top of th Abyss lets you angle the cups towards the front or back of your head when resting on your ears. I found this also helped with comfort levels and let me further customize SQ.


----------



## arnaud

Gavin, thank you for the comment, I have never ever heard of another over-the-ear leather/pleather cushion can that is supposed to leak from edges to get the best sound.

Surely, you do good by mentioning this because I must not be the only one who failed to read the memo .

Also, I don't recall talking to you at the meet so, definitely, I hope I can recognize who you are next time and will be happy to have a chat!

Arnaud


----------



## spkrs01

arnaud said:


> Gavin, thank you for the comment, I have never ever heard of another over-the-ear leather/pleather cushion can that is supposed to leak from edges to get the best sound.
> 
> Surely, you do good by mentioning this because I must not be the only one who failed to read the memo
> 
> ...


 
  
 Arnaud
  
 I was with AnakChan who introduced us .......don't worry too much, I will see you next year again.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

x838nwy said:


> Is this not in the manual? Thought it'd be pretty important to add in amongst all the other stuff that came with it. (I might have to save that post for when I buy my pair… in like 20 years.)


 
 I never read the manual when I got the thing, I just put it on my head and streamed music through it.


----------



## spkrs01

I don't think there was/is a manual as to obtaining correct fit, and was definitely trial and error for me.


----------



## Naras

Unless I missed something, there is no "manual", per se.  There's a single page of info to help get you started.  JPS really should include either some illustrations that explain the fitting process.  It would be really cool if they posted a video on their website to help walk people through the fitting process and explain their theories behind how the cups should fit!  Joe is super friendly and takes time to explain things on the phone, but I imagine he must have this conversation many times a week, so it would probably be easier for them to just post a vid!


----------



## purrin

I prefer the Abyss with a less than perfect seal. Measurably, it results in a slight bass bump (a few db) at 40-50Hz and subjectively adds a bit more punch. I'm guilty of being a slight basshead.
  
 The point of it is that people can futz with stuff to get the sound they want. The pads can be rotated or angled inward/outward.


----------



## Sasoriofsand

The dark star will take forever to come... I also bought a firefly... wonder if that will do the job. Btw will getting a Cambridge dac magic help?


----------



## x838nwy

sasoriofsand said:


> The dark star will take forever to come... I also bought a firefly... wonder if that will do the job. Btw will getting a Cambridge dac magic help?




From what I've read, the wa7 should be able to drive it. Which Dacmagic are you thinking of? Any model Dacmagic will give you more input options than the wa7. But whether that qualifies as "help"ing depends on you need.

Kindda strange going wa7, then dacmagic then dark star...?


----------



## spkrs01

I will be taking my Abyss to a friend's this week who has the WA7 and just received the ALO Studio 6, so will post a comment or two about the pairing with the WA7.


----------



## Sasoriofsand

no I ordered the dark star and firefly together, the Cambridge dac majic is for my genelac 6080 my desktop speakers


----------



## rudi0504

purrin said:


> I prefer the Abyss with a less than perfect seal. Measurably, it results in a slight bass bump (a few db) at 40-50Hz and subjectively adds a bit more punch. I'm guilty of being a slight basshead.
> 
> The point of it is that people can futz with stuff to get the sound they want. The pads can be rotated or angled inward/outward.




I am at The same experiance like you purrin
With The thicker EarPods on The back Site like My LCD 3 EarPads .

I Think This is a genius design from Joe , that The earcups are not sealed My Ears .
With This Flying EarPads i can have better soundstage 

The important Thing i can hear music With Abyss For LONG listening time and never feel so 
Pressure In My Ears and My head .

For The SQ is The best For Me 

IMO


----------



## x838nwy

sasoriofsand said:


> no I ordered the dark star and firefly together, the Cambridge dac majic is for my genelac 6080 my desktop speakers




a little ot, but would be interesting to compare the dac in the dacmagic against the one inside the wa7.

May I ask where you are? I am kindda looking for a local genelec distributor - might have a spare mjolnir soon and might try driving active speakers off it. I'm in thailand, btw.


----------



## purrin

The Abyss driver seems fairly well damped where a loss of seal doesn't result in massive bass rolloff and a huge 5-10db mid-bass hump. This is not too unlike the HE-500. The HE-400 on the other hand is more sensitive to seal (see Jerg pad measurements). I know the STAX are very sensitive to seal. Lack of good seal on the STAX = boom boom city with severe rolloff.


----------



## Sasoriofsand

x838nwy said:


> a little ot, but would be interesting to compare the dac in the dacmagic against the one inside the wa7.
> 
> May I ask where you are? I am kindda looking for a local genelec distributor - might have a spare mjolnir soon and might try driving active speakers off it. I'm in thailand, btw.


 
 I'm in Bangkok for some work till the 10th... I from singapore


----------



## spkrs01

Had some fun at my friend's today trying the Abyss on the Studio 6 sourced by the Lumin, and a very nice sounding combination indeed.......................
  
 We are both tweakers, and originally he had the Shun Mook diamond resonators underneath the Studio 6 and it sounded a tad slow with a slight smearing in the upper mid/ lower trebles....We changed the Shun Mook out and inserted Nordost Kones and immediately the smearing was cleaned up allowing more vibrancy to come through.
  
 I think many will be happy with this combination, and enough for my friend to take steps in buying a pair of the Abyss. For him, he says that the Abyss are the best Headphones he has heard and probably betters a Stax set up. That, the bass performance on the Abyss is unimpeachable, and the preciseness and realism of presentation is unmatched.
  
 I, of course concur with his thoughts.....................
  
  
 Apologies for the poor phone pics


----------



## VisceriousZERO

spkrs01 said:


> Had some fun at my friend's today trying the Abyss on the Studio 6 sourced by the Lumin, and a very nice sounding combination indeed.......................
> 
> We are both tweakers, and originally he had the Shun Mook diamond resonators underneath the Studio 6 and it sounded a tad slow with a slight smearing in the upper mid/ lower trebles....We changed the Shun Mook out and inserted Nordost Kones and immediately the smearing was cleaned up allowing more vibrancy to come through.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Lovely impressions! I tried the Abyss with the Studio Six in a shop a few weeks back and I didn't like it... Then on the way home the store manager texted me, they had the tubes in wrong... haha.


----------



## x838nwy

visceriouszero said:


> Lovely impressions! I tried the Abyss with the Studio Six in a shop a few weeks back and I didn't like it... Then on the way home the store manager texted me, they had the tubes in wrong... haha.


 
  Wrong on what way? Man, i'm surprised they didn't blow something???


----------



## wuwhere

x838nwy said:


> Wrong on what way? Man, i'm surprised they didn't blow something???


 
  
 Store manager texting tubes the wrong way? What an excuse!!!


----------



## Audio Jester

Has anyone tried the Abyss with the GS-X Mk2?


----------



## VisceriousZERO

wuwhere said:


> Store manager texting tubes the wrong way? What an excuse!!!


 
  


x838nwy said:


> Wrong on what way? Man, i'm surprised they didn't blow something???


 
  
 they had the wrong tube in the wrong spot, they looked the same!
  
 Also he got it right now!


----------



## rudi0504

My Abyss With HI Fi M8 as source

Source : iPhone 4s mod 
Dac : HI Fi M8 
Amp : Pre Amp Tube P 10.2 

Abyss With better source like CD Player and High End DAC sound quality improve siginificant


----------



## scolaiw

I don't understand how people are willing to spend $5000 on a pair of headphones and then proceed to power it from portable gear and other lesser quality amps/DACs. It's kinda disrespectful to the Abyss in my honest opinion. Don't they see that for $5000 they could have a setup that easily surpasses their current setup?


----------



## alvin sawdust

scolaiw said:


> I don't understand how people are willing to spend $5000 on a pair of headphones and then proceed to power it from portable gear and other lesser quality amps/DACs. It's kinda disrespectful to the Abyss in my honest opinion. Don't they see that for $5000 they could have a setup that easily surpasses their current setup?


 
 My thoughts also. Each to their own though.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

alvin sawdust said:


> My thoughts also. Each to their own though.




Agreed but its fun... XD


----------



## alvin sawdust

visceriouszero said:


> Agreed but its fun... XD


 
 Yes and I am quite envious.


----------



## wink

perception is stronger than logic.
  
 Hype is stronger than logic.
  
 That's double jeopardy - right there.....!!!


----------



## purrin

scolaiw said:


> I don't understand how people are willing to spend $5000 on a pair of headphones and then proceed to power it from portable gear and other lesser quality amps/DACs. It's kinda disrespectful to the Abyss in my honest opinion. Don't they see that for $5000 they could have a setup that easily surpasses their current setup?


 
  
 Good point, but the fact is, the transducer is going to have the greatest influence on the final sound. The Abyss is unique in terms of offering a close to neutral response with high-end technicalities, i.e. HD800 too bright, LCD3 too laid back, etc. The fact is, no expensive amp or DAC is going to make the HD800 or LCD3 sound better than the Abyss from a good sounding modest priced amp.
  
 Abyss + Vali ($120) > ECBA + LCD3 (or whatever similar combo)
  
 My philosophy was always to get the best speaker possible, and try to get by with cheap amps/sources until I upgraded those later.


----------



## kurochin

wink said:


> perception is stronger than logic.
> 
> Hype is stronger than logic.


 

 Logic doesn't apply to this hobby.
 Audiophilia = 1% fact + 9% preference + 90% delusion


----------



## rudi0504

scolaiw said:


> I don't understand how people are willing to spend $5000 on a pair of headphones and then proceed to power it from portable gear and other lesser quality amps/DACs. It's kinda disrespectful to the Abyss in my honest opinion. Don't they see that for $5000 they could have a setup that easily surpasses their current setup?



 
 


alvin sawdust said:


> My thoughts also. Each to their own though.



 
 


visceriouszero said:


> Agreed but its fun... XD



 
 


alvin sawdust said:


> Yes and I am quite envious.



 
 


wink said:


> perception is stronger than logic.
> 
> Hype is stronger than logic.
> 
> That's double jeopardy - right there.....!!!



 
 


purrin said:


> Good point, but the fact is, the transducer is going to have the greatest influence on the final sound. The Abyss is unique in terms of offering a close to neutral response with high-end technicalities, i.e. HD800 too bright, LCD3 too laid back, etc. The fact is, no expensive amp or DAC is going to make the HD800 or LCD3 sound better than the Abyss from a good sounding modest priced amp.
> 
> Abyss + Vali ($120) > ECBA + LCD3 (or whatever similar combo)
> 
> My philosophy was always to get the best speaker possible, and try to get by with cheap amps/sources until I upgraded those later.



Hi All
I want like Purrin said , that Abyss with cheap amp or  in my Case Portable Source  set up Sound Quality from Abyss is very good.
My T + A Tube Pre Amp cost about 12.000 USD , if i pair with high end CD Transport and DAC , The Sound Quality from Abyss is heavenbly
it is slightly better than my Stax Sr 009 in  term of Bass Qyuality 
IMO  


http://www.taelektroakustik.de/index.php?id=287&L=1


----------



## spkrs01

I guess my very good friend is ready for the arrival of his Abyss..........
  

  

  
 Sourced by the Lumin Music Player...................


----------



## Audio Jester

spkrs01 said:


> I guess my very good friend is ready for the arrival of his Abyss..........
> 
> Sourced by the Lumin Music Player...................




My cup overflowth!


----------



## spkrs01

My Desk top rig is nearly completed after two months of non-stop spend. Just a few more tweeks to be added. 
  
 The Abyss with my two other favorite headphones, the HD800 and TH900.........................
  
 Lumin Music Player (Synology NAS) > HEX > Cavalli LAu.
  
  

  
 The Abyss is just one incredible sounding pair of Headphones......................


----------



## rudi0504

spkrs01 said:


> My Desk top rig is nearly completed after two months of non-stop spend. Just a few more tweeks to be added.
> 
> The Abyss with my two other favorite headphones, the HD800 and TH900.........................
> 
> ...




Looks awesome Gavin


----------



## rudi0504

spkrs01 said:


> I guess my very good friend is ready for the arrival of his Abyss..........
> 
> 
> 
> ...




More and more head fi member like Abyss

After they heard my Abyss , two of my friends directly bought Abyss headphones


----------



## Audio Jester

I really look forward to giving these a go. My stax may get jealous....


----------



## up late

rudi0504 said:


> More and more head fi member like Abyss
> 
> After they heard my Abyss , two of my friends directly bought Abyss headphones




they had some loose change lying around? and what's with the levitating studio 6?


----------



## spkrs01

up late said:


> they had some loose change lying around? and what's with the levitating studio 6?


 
  
 They are Nordost Kones.....
  
 The more revealing and sensitive the component, the better rewards sonically that can be achieve using resonator feet underneath the said components. They really clean up the sonics......
  
 Highly recommended!


----------



## up late

i get the idea of minimising vibration for a turntable, CD player and a transport but an amp? the studio 6 looks like a pretty big and heavy headamp. what's wrong with the isolating feet that came with it? is it even stable sitting on those cones?


----------



## x838nwy

up late said:


> i get the idea of minimising vibration for a turntable, CD player and a transport but an amp? the studio 6 looks like a pretty big and heavy headamp. what's wrong with the isolating feet that came with it? is it even stable sitting on those cones?




That's a whole can of worms right there. Fwiw, with tube gear, there's the issue with tube microphonics which is one of the reasons why an amp might need to be kept vibration-free. With ss gear I'm not so sure, but my cardas blocks work on my mjolnir (but not so noticable with my gungnir).


----------



## wink

spkrs01 said:


> I guess my very good friend is ready for the arrival of his Abyss..........
> 
> Sourced by the Lumin Music Player...................


 
 What's your point?


----------



## spkrs01

wink said:


> What's your point?


 
  
 Point?!?
  
 He is waiting for his pair of the Abyss to arrive, pretty self-explanatory in the post, and have two great amps and source for the Abyss........


----------



## purrin

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I like to use cheap amps with the Abyss because it gets people all bent out of shape.


----------



## alvin sawdust

spkrs01 said:


> My Desk top rig is nearly completed after two months of non-stop spend. Just a few more tweeks to be added.
> 
> The Abyss with my two other favorite headphones, the HD800 and TH900.........................
> 
> ...


 
  
 Now that's the kind of rig I want to see people using the 1266 with.


----------



## up late

yep. if you've got Frankenstein's monster you might as well have the volts for the bolts. no point trying to drive a six inch nail with a tack hammer as the ol' man used to say.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

First day of the 2013 Manila Hi-Fi Show just ended. I brought the Abyss to the local head-fiers.
  

  
  
 I call this piece, "Faces of the Abyss"


----------



## AnakChan

visceriouszero said:


> First day of the 2013 Manila Hi-Fi Show just ended. I brought the Abyss to the local head-fiers.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Piccy Hidey!!
> ...


 
  
 Awesome!! This is terrible how all these Abyss pix are making me really re-think of my home desktop strategy. How's the Abyss off the ALO Studio Six??


----------



## VisceriousZERO

anakchan said:


> Awesome!! This is terrible how all these Abyss pix are making me really re-think of my home desktop strategy. How's the Abyss off the ALO Studio Six??


 
  
 The poison!
  
 Oh its great... though I feel it needs a true balanced setup to really show the Abyss for what it is... though those faces will really sell the Abyss


----------



## rudi0504

My two best portable set up with Abyss 1266

Source : IPhone 4 S mod
Dac / Amp : Hi Fi M8 RSA version 
 Cyberlabs Theorem 720 dac
Cable : Lod to USB diy 
 Moon Audio Silver Dragon v1

SQ : these two are two beet dac amp for I device to drive my Abyss 

IMO


----------



## spkrs01

visceriouszero said:


> The poison!
> 
> Oh its great... though I feel it needs a true balanced setup to really show the Abyss for what it is... though those faces will really sell the Abyss


 
  
 It is a shame that they are not allowing or telling the people to adjust the headband wider.....as I am sure that some of these guys are definitely not getting to hear the bass performance, the Abyss is capable of presenting......


----------



## Audio Jester

spkrs01 said:


> It is a shame that they are not allowing or telling the people to adjust the headband wider.....as I am sure that some of these guys are definitely not getting to hear the bass performance, the Abyss is capable of presenting......



I have read this a few times, does the Abyss sound best with a relatively loose fit?


----------



## purrin

audio jester said:


> I have read this a few times, does the Abyss sound best with a relatively loose fit?


 
  
 That depends on personal preference. Unlike the STAX which fall apart with a loose fit (bloated mid-bass, extreme loss of low end), the Abyss doesn't change all that much. With a loose fit, there's a slight emphasis (a few db) at 40Hz and a slight rolloff below 30Hz. Subjectively, along with the increased sub-bass it sounds a bit punchier. I could go either way depending upon my mood, although with the recent mods to even out the treble more, I've been going with the full seal.


----------



## Currawong

visceriouszero said:


> anakchan said:
> 
> 
> > Awesome!! This is terrible how all these Abyss pix are making me really re-think of my home desktop strategy. How's the Abyss off the ALO Studio Six??
> ...


 
  
 I suggest against confusing people about balanced vs. SE. That has nothing to do with the performance with a particular pair of headphones. Indeed, by that logic, a balanced portable amp would work better than a full-sized, high-end SE desktop amp. What AnakChan is asking about is, _a specific amp._  I'd like to read more impressions from people who tried them on the Studio Six as well.


----------



## Naras

Great/scary to see that a monstrous typhoon isn't stopping people from going to check out the Abyss and other head-fi gear.  Hope you and your families stay safe.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

naras said:


> Great/scary to see that a monstrous typhoon isn't stopping people from going to check out the Abyss and other head-fi gear.  Hope you and your families stay safe.


 
  
 Its sunny here in Manila, but in the southern part, in Cebu and Bohol (where a nasty earthquake hit a few weeks ago) its been hectic. Search and rescue are still going though...


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The balanced vs single ended (SE) thing is definitely confusing in two channel audio. It's implications are a variable depending on the application. 

For example, the Cavalli LAu is fully balanced throughout, having four channels of amplification for a stereo amp, 2 amplifier channels per left and right side. So while it can properly convert a single ended RCA 2 channel input into 4 channels of fully balanced XLR out, the best way to utilize the LAu to the fullest extent is to input a fully balanced source, particularly where the source component is full differential balanced throughout, just as it is with 4 channels of amplification. To know if this is possible given your source typically requires you to ask the designer.

For example, the Woo Audio WA-5 needs to be used with the 4 pin balanced out to properly drive the AB-1266. There's a difference between the 4 pin XLR balanced output and the 6.3 mm / 1/4" out, so you need to educate yourself as to the differences.

Best way to determine your course of action would be to speak with the equipment manufacturers directly about how to best interface your gear.


----------



## rudi0504

naras said:


> Great/scary to see that a monstrous typhoon isn't stopping people from going to check out the Abyss and other head-fi gear.  Hope you and your families stay safe.




Abyss is like Typhoon too , after we heard can not get back 




visceriouszero said:


> Its sunny here in Manila, but in the southern part, in Cebu and Bohol (where a nasty earthquake hit a few weeks ago) its been hectic. Search and rescue are still going though...




I am sorry to hear that typhoon in Philippine VZ


----------



## rudi0504

My 3 stacks that can drive my Abyss very good for portable use 

It is not optimal to drive Abyss only with portable set up , for take the fuller SQ must drive use desktop rigs 

Source : iPhone 4 s Mod 
Dac : Cyberlabs Class dB 2.00 Vrms version 
Amp : ALO Rx 3 B
Headphone : Abyss 1266
Cable : mini to mini diy
 Mini USB to Lod diy 
 Adapter mini to USB 











Cheers 

Rudi


----------



## rudi0504

I have tried to Find The best portable set Up For My Abyss , at The End i found out The best from all My portable set Up as follow :

Source : IPhone 4s mod 
Dac : Cypher Labs Class Solo old version 
Amp : Alo Rx 3 B 
Headphone : Abyss 1266 
Cable : Lod to USB and mini to mini diy 

Sound quality : 
The best portable set Up that can drive My Abyss to desktop sound quality.

I turn The volume at 11 to 12 O clock I get very Loud sound 

This evening We compared With
Dac / Amp : Eximus DP 1 
Source : AK 100 mod as full transport 

And compare to 
Source : AK 100 mod as transport 
Dac : Eximus DP 1 
Amp : Bakoon HDA 5210 mk 3 as Power amp 

The Winner is My portable set Up above .

This set Up is not Only Good In sound quality but got plenty OF Power like desktop 
Cypher Labs Class solo until now is The best DAC For i device With plenty OF Power 

IMO


----------



## spkrs01

I am approaching the Abyss AB-1266 quite differently from Rudi.....For me, it has been trying to get the best sonic performance out of the Abyss, no compromises.. 
  
 It has been an interesting week, as I am looking for new home speakers to replace my Magico Q5, the natural progressing is the Q7. I auditioned the Q7 on Tuesday, powered by the TOTL Constellation Pre and Power amplifiers and sourced by the 4 stack dCS Vivaldi. The sound emanating from this system is without a doubt, sublime. The accuracy, resolving and transparent nature is stellar. Everything was life size and true to proportion.
  
 It bettered the next best system I heard this year which was the Pluto turntable, Boulder phono, pre and power amps (3000 series) and Wilson Alexandria XLF.
  
 Back to the Abyss. After listening to the above system, it redefined/ reaffirmed my references, and I set about moving the sonic character of the Abyss towards what I heard. I acquired a Nordost power cord that fed my power conditioner and used all silver/gold cabling ahead. The better Nordost cables are known for their speed, transparency, slight upper mid and high tilt, and soundstaging capabilities. What I was not expecting was the sheer improvement in the bass. Resolving, harmonically rich, great weight and locational/directional.
  
 With the mids and highs, it gives me the improvement that I sought. More precision, liveliness and spaciousness with better nuances. The highs has more shimmer, sparkle, dynamics and weight. Impact on cymbals has improved significantaly along with the ethereal decay glow that surrounds the cymbals after it is struck. The transparent and revealing nature of the Abyss are first class along with incredible detail that it is able to portray!
  
 There a few more things that I would like to make on my system, which includes a third party power supply to the Lumin Music Player, another Nordost power cord and their QX4.
  
 Again, I will reiterate that, _in my opinion_, in the current market place, no other pair of headphones comes close to the Abyss, and it is the only headphone that gives me a semblance to the above speaker system.


----------



## rudi0504

HI Gavin 

I am agree With Your impression , that Abyss In My opinion The best headphone In The World to date .

I tried With My portable set Up , it is Only to Share that Abyss is excellent to With portable set Up like i tried This evening With My friends .

With Your High End desktop set Up , i believe sound havenly than My portable set Up


----------



## spkrs01

Rudi

No. It is admirable what you are bringing to the table and acknowledging what a versatile headphone the Abyss is, and the fact that it can sound truly wonderful from portable stacks. 

I am just adding to your findings that the Abyss can scale up, to an incredible level. I do not think I have reached the Abyss' limitations and am finding this journey so much fun.

The Abyss is the only headphones I have been listening to, of late, purely due to the fact, other headphones pale by comparison.


----------



## holeout

Hey Gav, you're up late. Anyways, can wait to get my Abyss delivered next week and can chime in and make some contribution to this thread. My LAu is starting to get run in after 7 days and sounded quite superb tonight with very rich overtone and details. Of course the Nordost power cable did contribute quite a bit.


----------



## spkrs01

holeout said:


> Hey Gav, you're up late. Anyways, can wait to get my Abyss delivered next week and can chime in and make some contribution to this thread. My LAu is starting to get run in after 7 days and sounded quite superb tonight with very rich overtone and details. Of course the Nordost power cable did contribute quite a bit.




Hiya.

Sleep soon! Too much listening and not enough sleep

The Cavalli LAu is stellar and as per our private conversations has a refined European overtones to it character. It adds to the sonics. I am definitely not in the wire with gain camp.

Yes, I am very interested in your Studio 6 v LAu with the Abyss thoughts. 

For me, after auditioning the Q7, revaluation was necessary as I did not want to pursue a course of tuning my system that was beginning to sound too euphonic and sweet.

The Nordost is definitely complimentary, couldn't be happier. 

We are both die hard audiophiles and more or less know, what a realistic sounding system is about. One of the attributes has to be that it sounds excellent with all genres.

The Abyss more than satisfies the above criteria for me.


----------



## rudi0504

I want Share some pictures during our Abyss audition This evening at Jaben Store 

First 2 pictures was With desktop amp 

Source : AK 100 as pure transport 
Dac / Amp : Eximus DP1 
Amp : Bakoon HDA 5210 mk 3
Headphones : Abyss 1266
 Fostex TH 900
 LCD 3 

















Below are With portable set Up 

Source : iPhone 4s mod
Dac : Cypher Labs Class solo old version 
Amp : Alo Rx 3 B
Headphones : Abyss 1266
 Fostex TH 900
 LCD 3


----------



## spkrs01

Nice pictures!!!

The lady has good taste and seems to be enjoying herself the most and probably the only person that the Abyss fits as is.

I am a little disappointed to see that people don't seem to adjust the Abyss???


----------



## VisceriousZERO

spkrs01 said:


> Nice pictures!!!
> 
> The lady has good taste and seems to be enjoying herself the most and probably the only person that the Abyss fits as is.
> 
> I am a little disappointed to see that people don't seem to adjust the Abyss???




I tried but i havent gotten the hang of it yet.. Ill get there!

Also...


Shootout!


----------



## spkrs01

visceriouszero said:


> I tried but i havent gotten the hang of it yet.. Ill get there!
> 
> Also...
> 
> ...


 
  
 VZ
  
 Awesome!!! Look forward to you thoughts.
  
 Will PM you.........


----------



## rudi0504

spkrs01 said:


> Nice pictures!!!
> 
> The lady has good taste and seems to be enjoying herself the most and probably the only person that the Abyss fits as is.
> 
> ...


----------



## spkrs01

rudi0504 said:


> > The Abyss us a demo unit belong to Jaben STC Jakarta
> > We Do not want to adjust because not our Abyss , The screw is very tight


 
  
 I understand but it is akin to buying a decent pair of full range speakers and placing them against the back wall, and probably in the corner
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Makes no sense for either party........


----------



## rudi0504

spkrs01 said:


> I understand but it is akin to buying a decent pair of full range speakers and placing them against the back wall, and probably in the corner:confused_face:
> 
> Makes no sense for either party........




Thank you Gavin 

At home I adjust my Abyss follow my head


----------



## AnakChan

visceriouszero said:


> I tried but i havent gotten the hang of it yet.. Ill get there!
> 
> Also...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Woopsies? I thought you were driving the Abyss with the Woo WA234 Monoblocks? You have the LAu too?


----------



## rudi0504

This video from musical fidelity want show you how to adjust the headband :

Abyss is genius headphone I ever seen 

Note Tyll's video in his review as he shows adjustments in his video, about 1 minute in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t23lyqf0p28


----------



## kurochin

visceriouszero said:


> I tried but i havent gotten the hang of it yet.. Ill get there!
> 
> Also...
> 
> ...


 
  
 You might think I'm weird, but of all the kit featured in that photo, the one I covet the most is the little Slee Ultra Linear amp. XD


----------



## VisceriousZERO

kurochin said:


> You might think I'm weird, but of all the kit featured in that photo, the one I covet the most is the little Slee Ultra Linear amp. XD


 
 I love it. Even with CIEMs.
  


anakchan said:


> Woopsies? I thought you were driving the Abyss with the Woo WA234 Monoblocks? You have the LAu too?


 
 Yerps, my MONOs are attached to some speakers right now...


----------



## holeout

Finally took delivery yesterday! Big thanks to spkr01 for sharing his adjustment and setup experience, most helpful. Still some ways from running in so I'll refrain from commenting on the sound for now. Truly unique set of phones, playing with the adjustments right now and having a great time .....


----------



## leesure

FWIW, I've heard the Abyss sound absolutely fantastic on the Woo 234 and I've heard them sound incredibly average on almost everything else.


----------



## Taft81

anyone have try abyss with less expensive amp and sounds almost as good if it connect with cavalli or wa5?


----------



## alvin sawdust

taft81 said:


> anyone have try abyss with less expensive amp and sounds almost as good if it connect with cavalli or wa5?


 

 Isn't Purrin using them with a Schitt Valhalla or am I misinformed?


----------



## NinjaHamster

alvin sawdust said:


> Isn't Purrin using them with a Schitt Valhalla or am I misinformed?


 
 That is his intention - till his semi-custom amp is finished.


----------



## canister

Are these widely available? I would want to carefully audition a pair, preferably with my own set up, if ever I am considering buying one. My local JPS Lab dealer told me they would only bring in one if a customer places a firm order.


----------



## zerodeefex

alvin sawdust said:


> Isn't Purrin using them with a Schitt Valhalla or am I misinformed?




He's using the soon to be released $120 Schiit Vali


----------



## NinjaHamster

zerodeefex said:


> He's using the soon to be released $120 Schiit Vali


 
 Whoops, sorry !  I missed that the poster said Valhalla, not Vali. 
  
 It isn't his aim to use the Vali for long, just until his new amp (which I believe is designed around DHT tubes) arrives.


----------



## alvin sawdust

zerodeefex said:


> He's using the soon to be released $120 Schiit Vali


 

 Thought I'd got it half right, thanks.


----------



## rudi0504

To night i found another best portable Set Up , that really can drive My Abyss 1266 to excellent sound quality and have Power full to drive My Abyss 1266 and No distorsion , these Two best set Up are coming from Cypher Labs product 

First set Up is :

Source : iPhone 4s mod
Dac : Cypher Labs Class Solo tactical design
Amp : ALO Rx 3 B 



Second set Up is : 

Source : iPhone 4s mod
Dac / Amp : Theorem 730 In This set Up as My dac 
Amp : RSA The Intruder 



These Two best set Up are runcing In Balance RSA 
Abyss 3 Pin Balance > 3 Pin Female balance to male 4 balance > 4 Pin Balance To rsa going to My Intruder or Alo Rx 3 B

Overall : SQ are like desktop Amps With Powerful SQ wothout distorsion .
Until now these Two are My best set Up to drive Abyss 1266

IMO


----------



## leesure




----------



## Duckman

That is one ugly phone 
  
 But a lovely couple of photos.


----------



## leesure

duckman said:


> That is one ugly phone
> 
> But a lovely couple of photos.


 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## rudi0504

leesure said:


>




Congrats fir Your New Abyss 
And beautiful pictures


----------



## up late

duckman said:


> That is one ugly phone
> 
> But a lovely couple of photos.




lol! x2 but it's all about the sound right?


----------



## leesure

rudi0504 said:


> Congrats fir Your New Abyss
> And beautiful pictures




Thanks...but not mine. These belong to Jack Wu of Woo Audio. They were taken for his website.


----------



## dub

scolaiw said:


> Firstly, I should say the source was as follows: NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC>Burson Soloist/Woo WA22/Woo WA5>Abyss.


 
  
 He. I also have a WA22 and a HD800. I'd like to know if the WA22 provides enough power with the Abyss
  
 Best regards


----------



## scolaiw

dub said:


> He. I also have a WA22 and a HD800. I'd like to know if the WA22 provides enough power with the Abyss
> 
> Best regards


 

 Does it have "enough" power? Yes. In fact many people seem to like running their Abyss off portable rigs. 

 Will it bring out the most from the Abyss? Absolutely not.

 Of course it goes without saying that it is always best if you can test it out on the WA22 yourself and see if you are satisfied.  

 Hope that answers your question.


----------



## purrin

dub said:


> He. I also have a WA22 and a HD800. I'd like to know if the WA22 provides enough power with the Abyss
> 
> Best regards


 
  
 In general, I've preferred the Abyss from solid-state or tube hybrid (solid-state output stage) amps. Otherwise kind of soft and mushy.


----------



## MacedonianHero

purrin said:


> In general, I've preferred the Abyss from solid-state or tube hybrid (solid-state output stage) amps. Otherwise kind of soft and mushy.


 
 Pretty much sums up my experience with all orthos that I've tried with tube amps.


----------



## ericfarrell85

purrin said:


> In general, I've preferred the Abyss from solid-state or tube hybrid (solid-state output stage) amps. Otherwise kind of soft and mushy.


 
 Did you find the Abyss to scale up with some of the more powerful SS amps? Something like the Dynahi, Balanced Beta, GSX-2, have you had the chance to hear this headphone on amps of that level? I know you've had dealings with these amps in the past.


----------



## rudi0504

purrin said:


> In general, I've preferred the Abyss from solid-state or tube hybrid (solid-state output stage) amps. Otherwise kind of soft and mushy.







macedonianhero said:


> Pretty much sums up my experience with all orthos that I've tried with tube amps.




I am at the same impression like two of you 
With tube amp sound so live less , in the same thing with my Stax headphone withSolis state sound much more live 
IMO


----------



## rudi0504

scolaiw said:


> Does it have "enough" power? Yes. In fact many people seem to like running their Abyss off portable rigs.
> 
> 
> Will it bring out the most from the Abyss? Absolutely not.
> ...




With portable rigs like my set up 

Source : iPhone 4S mod
Dac : cypher class Class Solo old 
Amp : ALO Rx 3 B 
Headphone : Abyss 1266

Overall the power and SQ better than wa 22 
IMO


----------



## kiertijai

I use my JPS Abyss with my MalValve Three amplifier which drives it very well enough
in balanced in and out.
However I prefer more using the Abyss with speaker post of my David Berning ZOTL ZH230
which drives it the best, with the best bass in term of power , layering and extension and excellent
dynamic. I also have the tube sound that I like combining with the power to drive the Abyss to
its potential and it is more life like as speakers
I haven't heard with the Liquid gold yet but I am satisfied now , how's about the GSX mkII comparing
with the liquid gold or Woo WA22 or Woo monoblock?


----------



## rgs9200m

I prefer it with tubes (B52 for one). But then again, I seem to prefer everything with tubes, so take it with a grain of salt.
 It's one *great* headphone though, everything so nicely fleshed out and not hyped or cringe-inducing.


----------



## purrin

ericfarrell85 said:


> Did you find the Abyss to scale up with some of the more powerful SS amps? Something like the Dynahi, Balanced Beta, GSX-2, have you had the chance to hear this headphone on amps of that level? I know you've had dealings with these amps in the past.


 
  
 Pretty much what Kiertijau said on the bass quality, articulation, and control in terms of scaling up. I didn't like the Abyss from the GSX2, even with a ladder DAC (MSB Analog in this case). A bit etched in the treble, even with my tweaks on the Abyss. (GSX2 is a better match with HE-500 and LCD2/3.) Dynahi would be a good bet with the Abyss, at least with of the builds I've heard. I'm probably going to opt more in favor of tube resolution and micro-dynamics than ultimate (but still very good) bass control by going with amp with paralleled 45 tubes. I like to be able to hear what my DACs can do. SS always seems to subtract a little bit while tubes add what's not supposed to be there. Whatever tickles our fancy.
  
 If anything else, maybe the Schiit Rag. Early reports from those who have heard the prototype: it resolves like crazy. I figure we can pop in a tube front end stage later.


----------



## eric65

For information.
  
 These are objective measures of Abyss versus HE 500 performed by a French forumeur
  
  
 http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177948197.html#p177948197
  
  
*Responses abyss: yellow = pad pressed against measurement frame, blue = less sealed​, pink = even less sealed*

  
  
*SPL responses equalized in the medium : blue = abyss, yellow = HE500*
(NB: the level of the Abyss is actually 8 dB lower than that of the HE 500)

  
 Comments?
  
 For me, the adjustment for sealing pads seems important to have a flat bass response.
 Note the hump level at 1 KHz, a bit like a Stax 009, giving more presence to the voice in the medium.


----------



## eric65

The bass response (70-80 Hz) of the Abyss objectively varies by nearly 10 dB, depending on the seal or not of the pads.


According to several people who have tested the Abyss, sealing pads seems impossible.


Can we talk of true fidelity about this headphone with a response bass heightened by nearly 10 dB if sealing pads impossible ?
_(as if we were to increase the bass of +10 dB with the bass potentiometer of an Hi-Fi amplifier to have more spectacular bass)._


----------



## eric65

Published measurements : Abyss vs HE 500 - update

*Group delay (ms) / frequency :  blue = abyss, yellow = HE500* (fractionation of the membrane)

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177953435.html#p177953435
  
*and also the curves of *:
 distortions (at 95dB)
 csd
 burst decay
 30Hz square wave
 300Hz square wave
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177948197.html#p177948197


----------



## purrin

That group delay looks funky. Here is mine:


----------



## purrin

eric65 said:


> According to several people who have tested the Abyss, sealing pads seems impossible.


 
  
 That's interesting. I've had half a dozen people come over to my place and from what I am aware, none of them had a problem with getting a good seal, if they so wished. It was simply a matter of rotating the cushions so the thickest part rested on the nape of the neck instead of directly behind the ears.
  
 Moderate seal:

  
 Good seal:


----------



## VisceriousZERO

I do believe that is one of the best things with the Abyss, being able to rotate the pads for a good seal.


----------



## x838nwy

What's "group delay" btw?


----------



## eric65

> *Responses abyss: yellow = pad pressed against measurement frame, blue = less sealed​, pink = even less sealed*





> The bass response (70-80 Hz) of the Abyss objectively varies by nearly 10 dB, depending on the seal or not of the pads.
> 
> 
> *According to several people who have tested the Abyss, sealing pads seems impossible.*
> ...


 
  


purrin said:


> That's interesting. I've had half a dozen people come over to my place and from what I am aware, none of them had a problem with getting a good seal, if they so wished. It was simply a matter of rotating the cushions so the thickest part rested on the nape of the neck instead of directly behind the ears.
> 
> Moderate seal:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hello purrin,
  
 An obvious point, the measurements made by the French forumeur differ quite significantly from yours on the frequency response (function of the sealing pad) (ie you can find: bass roll off with Lack of seal:-5db at 20Hz, the French found: bass roll off with Lack of seal: -20 at -30 dB at 20Hz with an +10dB peak at 70-80 Hz with a lack of sealing pads) .
  
 Also the same difficulty on the "group delay" substantially different according to the studied headphone
Unless it is related to the headphone model tested ? (series model in France)
  
 On the issue of the Abyss port for a perfect seal, even turning the pads, you acknowledge yourself that there may be a real problem for some people (depending on the anatomy of the head) making sealing sometimes impossible.
  
 You said _: “ __I didn't have a problem with seal with the thick part of the pad toward the nape of my neck, though I can definitely see it as an issue with some people. With the above tweaks in place, I do prefer to run the Abyss fully sealed._

_ _

_Even if the seal is not perfect, you only lose performance (in terms of distortion) below ~35Hz where there's not a lot of energy in most recordings to begin with. The more notable aspect is that there's no serious bass roll off with lack of seal: -5db at 20Hz in relation to 500Hz; and no change / 0db at 25Hz in relation to 500Hz. Lose the seal on a STAX, and the already light hitting sub-low bass becomes almost non-existent, and the mid-bass hump gets a significant hump around 120Hz. “_
http://www.head-fi.org/t/694483/electrodynamic-and-electrostatic-headphones-now-obsolete/60#post_10067705
  
  
 Pierre Paya (Shiva on Head-Fi), Abyss dealer in France said; Superfred21 (Member Head-Fi) also admits, and Arnaud also (about the sealing pad problem, at least in some people).
  
*Links concerning recognized sealing pad problem*.
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177890488.html#p177890488
_"Abyss was used without sealing total pad / ear simply because it is not possible.
 Even plating headphones against the skull, the seal is not complete.
 We found an intermediate setting between a fully open headphones and maximum contact with high temples and jaw.
 In this case, the sealing was nonexistent."_
  
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177891911.html#p177891911
_"The adjustment on the head is at first not very easy, there is no real seal between the pad and the pinna, the made ​​to rotate pads ovoid allows the slightly adjust the height of the headphone."_


----------



## nk77

purrin said:


> That's interesting. I've had half a dozen people come over to my place and from what I am aware, none of them had a problem with getting a good seal, if they so wished. It was simply a matter of rotating the cushions so the thickest part rested on the nape of the neck instead of directly behind the ears.


 
  
 Seems with a good seal the bass smoothes out flatter along with very slight increase in treble energy around the 8-9khz region. But what could be the reason for -5dB decrease in FR Mag with a good seal between the 5-6kHz mark? Is something being cancelled out?


----------



## x838nwy

purrin said:


> That group delay looks funky. Here is mine:




Okay - found out what it means. Still looks strangely bad for the abyss, no?


----------



## eric65

In view of these measures is it possible to find the "secret" of the Abyss to explain his great listening pleasure compared to other headphones ?
  
 The lack sealing of pads of Abyss and the resonance frequency particulary low in free air (70-80 Hz) explain perhaps the dynamism and the presence of these headphone in the low (middle bass) giving plenty of rythm and life at these headphone and also influence the sound stage (which depends in part on the bass reproduction).
  
 Distortions noted at different frequencies (20 Hz, 300-400 Hz, 6-10 kHz), higher than other headphones (HE-500 and SR-009) could cause listening pleasure "artificial" by harmonics created, where some euphony (like some tube amplifiers that illuminate the sound with superimposed harmonics (due to distortions)).
  
 In short, the Abyss give a very pleasant sound, fine, vibrant and dynamic, but not very faithful because of its relatively high distortions (compared to other headphones) and extra bass quite advantageous frequency (at 70-80 Hz).
  
 In contrast, one can consider the Stax SR-009 headphone (just as fast and accurate as Abyss) as more faithful to the strict meaning of the Hi-Fi (less distortion, more linear frequency response), even if it is the apparent price of a renderer in the middle bass less dynamic and present, and euphony (listening pleasure) less.


----------



## purrin

x838nwy said:


> Okay - found out what it means. Still looks strangely bad for the abyss, no?


 
  
 I purposely provided a graph which was more of an apples to apples comparison. The question really is: how much group delay (in terms of ms) can one hear to notice a difference? So in that respect one needs to be very careful in the presentation of data. Also, there's a little bit of roughness in the group delay measurements which are of no consequence, so smoothing the graph a little bit doesn't hurt. "Consensus" among speaker builders seems to indicate that the audible threshold is about 25-30ms. Even then, there is a lot of debate concerning this. So in that respect, the graph should be visualized more like this: 
  

  
 Finally, one needs to understand what context the group delay measurement is used in by speaker designers: bass reflex boxes and crossover design. For open headphones, this measurement doesn't provide anything meaningful which can be correlated with subjective experience. If the measurement has little or no correlation with subjective experience, then it's useless. In such cases, to present it as a differentiator (and in such a way as to intentionally or unintentionally highlight differences) only adds to confusion of the uninitiated. Because people who are unfamiliar with interpreting measurements have a tendency of makings all sorts of stuff up.


----------



## purrin

eric65 said:


> An obvious point, the measurements made by the French forumeur differ quite significantly from yours on the frequency response (function of the sealing pad) (ie you can find: bass roll off with Lack of seal:-5db at 20Hz, the French found: bass roll off with Lack of seal: -20 at -30 dB at 20Hz with an +10dB peak at 70-80 Hz with a lack of sealing pads) .


 
  
 Yes. Probably a result of different methods. Getting a good seal with headphone measurements is extremely difficult and something both Tyll and I have struggled with, but have managed to work out with "tricks" over time.
  
 My prior version 1 measurement rig had issues with obtaining a good seal with the STAXen. I've since built an improved version 2 rig which does a much more consistent job on bass measurements. (FYI: The photos of my measurement rig in Jude's signature line are totally out of date and do not reflect the state of my current rig.) I am much happier with the newer measurement rig because the bass measurements correlates well with my subjective experience. This new rig also includes "hair" and "nape" simulator attachments to account for less than prefect seal. My "good seal" measurements only utilize the hair simulator.
  
 Finally I would ask you this: even if a less than perfect seal, do you actually hear a +10db increase at 70-80Hz with the Abyss. I certainly don't. +10db at 70-80Hz would be extremely noticeable and annoying with most of the music I listen to. If the Abyss did truly exhibit such behavior, I would most certainly throw it away in the garbage can.
  


eric65 said:


> On the issue of the Abyss port for a perfect seal, even turning the pads, you acknowledge yourself that there may be a real problem for some people (depending on the anatomy of the head) making sealing sometimes impossible.
> 
> You said _: “ __I didn't have a problem with seal with the thick part of the pad toward the nape of my neck, though I can definitely see it as an issue with some people. With the above tweaks in place, I do prefer to run the Abyss fully sealed._


 
  
 Because all humans beings are built slightly differently, in theory I can see some people not being able to get a good seal. In practice, this has not occurred with the half-dozen folks who have dropped by my house for a listen.


----------



## purrin

nk77 said:


> Seems with a good seal the bass smoothes out flatter along with very slight increase in treble energy around the 8-9khz region. But what could be the reason for -5dB decrease in FR Mag with a good seal between the 5-6kHz mark? Is something being cancelled out?


 
  
 Probably - more effective wave cancellation. What's the full wavelength of 5500Hz? Around 6cm ~= inner diameter of ear cushions.


----------



## x838nwy

purrin said:


> I purposely provided a graph which was more of an apples to apples comparison. The question really is: how much group delay (in terms of ms) can one hear to notice a difference? So in that respect one needs to be very careful in the presentation of data. Also, there's a little bit of roughness in the group delay measurements which are of no consequence, so smoothing the graph a little bit doesn't hurt. "Consensus" among speaker builders seems to indicate that the audible threshold is about 25-30ms. Even then, there is a lot of debate concerning this. So in that respect, the graph should be visualized more like this:
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, one needs to understand what context the group delay measurement is used in by speaker designers: bass reflex boxes and crossover design. For open headphones, this measurement doesn't provide anything meaningful which can be correlated with subjective experience. If the measurement has little or no correlation with subjective experience, then it's useless. In such cases, to present it as a differentiator (and in such a way as to intentionally or unintentionally highlight differences) only adds to confusion of the uninitiated. Because people who are unfamiliar with interpreting measurements have a tendency of makings all sorts of stuff up.


 
  
  
 From what I read (which is a great deal less than you have admittedly), this really isn't just related to bass reflex boxes and cross-overs but also other things including positioning of speakers/transducers. So I take it to mean that (in the case of headphones) you throw a signal which consists of >=2 frequencies with a known phase relationship between the two at a driver, then look at what comes out?
  
 I am wondering how the system gets this result? Does it just send out an impulse input, fft it and look at the phase against freq? I recall an earlier plot where the abyss at about 350kHz kindda went 'advance' with -ve group delay which is a little weird and looks like some kind of resonance was crossed or something which is even stranger as it doesn't have a cross-over to do that sort of thing. I admit i'm no expert (did study vibrations and control back in my years, but not audio specific), but saying tens of milliseconds is inaudible is perhaps too dismissive? Don't get me wrong, all I'm saying is that many, many experienced ears have not mentioned much wrong with the Abyss so a glaringly poor result as the above must have manifested itself to someone - either that or there's something not quite accurate about the measurement/processing of the data. May be it's to do with the fact that the drivers are much closer to our ears than with speakers? May be the group delay results is an analysis of a square wave input? This would be an odd choice cos you'd need lots of square wave frequencies to get an accurate result?
  
 I don't really know to be honest, I've never had the equipment/computing power you guys have these days so I'm not sure what's currently possible/done. But I _am_ curious about the fact that a seemingly relevant measurement does not show itself to be audible. More importantly, the bass is an area which nearly all says the abyss excels yet seem to come out worst on these plots...


----------



## arnaud

purrin said:


> Finally, one needs to understand what context the group delay measurement is used in by speaker designers: bass reflex boxes and crossover design. For open headphones, this measurement doesn't provide anything meaningful which can be correlated with subjective experience. If the measurement has little or no correlation with subjective experience, then it's useless. In such cases, to present it as a differentiator (and in such a way as to intentionally or unintentionally highlight differences) only adds to confusion of the uninitiated. Because people who are unfamiliar with interpreting measurements have a tendency of makings all sorts of stuff up.


 
  
 I agree that the concept of group delay is a little confusing when applied to headphones. I used to look into this for crossovers where significant delay can occur with steep filters else enclosure LF tuning but was not aware people looked into this for headphones. After seeing the post from Agnostic1er on HCFR, I looked it up a bit and it turns out we can see a diaphragm resonance (1 guess then 2nd concentric mode) at 4-500Hz (visible in CSD from golden ears as well as the FRFs from the various sites).
  
 Now, as you said, is this very audible, I don't know. What I observe is that the abyss (with proper seal) has similar bass / low mid-bass rendering as the Stax 007A / 007mk1 and, subjectively, although the SR009 bass is more "linear", the omega 2 certainly feels like it has more bass quantity, and rounder sounding too.
  
 As for the seal, someone told me on this board I made the mistake to try to enforce the seal, hence my poor appreciation of the abyss when I tried it. Then, I was surprised by your comment later on how the abyss was rather insensitive to sealing (as opposed to staxens where lack of seal is very unpleasant with bass hump in 150Hz range). When I saw the curves on HCFR, it then made sense to me: it's not that the abyss is insensitive to sealing, it's just that the lack of seal (happened to me but I also may not have rotated the pads properly) is not as unpleasant as for stases because the free air resonance is at ~80Hz and that actually makes a nice physiological filter for low level listener (or bass heads, whichever camp you are lol  ).
  
 Arnaud


----------



## arnaud

x838nwy said:


> From what I read (which is a great deal less than you have admittedly), this really isn't just related to bass reflex boxes and cross-overs but also other things including positioning of speakers/transducers. So I take it to mean that (in the case of headphones) you throw a signal which consists of >=2 frequencies with a known phase relationship between the two at a driver, then look at what comes out?
> 
> I am wondering how the system gets this result? Does it just send out an impulse input, fft it and look at the phase against freq? I recall an earlier plot where the abyss at about 350kHz kindda went 'advance' with -ve group delay which is a little weird and looks like some kind of resonance was crossed or something which is even stranger as it doesn't have a cross-over to do that sort of thing. I admit i'm no expert (did study vibrations and control back in my years, but not audio specific), but saying tens of milliseconds is inaudible is perhaps too dismissive? Don't get me wrong, all I'm saying is that many, many experienced ears have not mentioned much wrong with the Abyss so a glaringly poor result as the above must have manifested itself to someone - either that or there's something not quite accurate about the measurement/processing of the data. May be it's to do with the fact that the drivers are much closer to our ears than with speakers? May be the group delay results is an analysis of a square wave input? This would be an odd choice cos you'd need lots of square wave frequencies to get an accurate result?
> 
> I don't really know to be honest, I've never had the equipment/computing power you guys have these days so I'm not sure what's currently possible/done. But I _am_ curious about the fact that a seemingly relevant measurement does not show itself to be audible. More importantly, the bass is an area which nearly all says the abyss excels yet seem to come out worst on these plots...


 
  
 Vibration and controls, I had such hard time getting a handle on state space domain, never understood it I think 
  
 My guess on the group delay was simply looking at the delay in cross-correlation function between input signal and measured SPL for some kind of band limited signal. Maybe arta documentation says more?
  
 Arnaud


----------



## x838nwy

arnaud said:


> Vibration and controls, I had such hard time getting a handle on state space domain, never understood it I think
> 
> My guess on the group delay was simply looking at the delay in cross-correlation function between input signal and measured SPL for some kind of band limited signal. Maybe arta documentation says more?
> 
> Arnaud


 
  
 The creepy/weird thing is, a post-grad I worked with was a French dude called *Arnaud*.


----------



## arnaud

x838nwy said:


> The creepy/weird thing is, a post-grad I worked with was a French dude called *Arnaud*.


 
  
 Eh! I was at VTech, did MS in Vibration & Acoustics / Active Noise Control of PC fan noise. I know a few french people who also did controls but no other arnaud


----------



## x838nwy

arnaud said:


> Eh! I was at VTech, did MS in Vibration & Acoustics / Active Noise Control of PC fan noise. I know a few french people who also did controls but no other arnaud


 
  
 Lolz  this could have turned out really weird. I read Engineering (MEng) at Cambridge. I worked on semi-active roll control of oil tanker trailers for my 3rd year project with Arnaud. I don't know if it ever went further than the drawing board cos the control strategy was a bit problematic - trying to work out what your average trucker is about to do is a lot harder than with cars, it seemed.
  
 Anyway, if my PC fan gets too loud, I'll shoot you a PM.


----------



## ricmiclaw

dub said:


> He. I also have a WA22 and a HD800. I'd like to know if the WA22 provides enough power with the Abyss
> 
> Best regards




Among my amps is a WA22. I do not own an Abyss AB-1266, so this response is strictly limited to the issue of the general ability of the WA22 to drive hard to drive headphones well. 

I own an LCD3 and an HD800. I've owned the LCD2, both R1 and R2. I've also owned an HE6, I've sold all of these but the LCD3 and HD800. Therefore, I have some experience driving headphones that aren't among the easiest to drive, particularly the HE6.

When considering the WA22, one must appreciate that it's really two different amps, depending on the power tubes used. If the 6AS7/6080 tube family is used, then the WA22's power output is lower than it could otherwise be and the WA22 might be better used for easier to drive headphones. However, the use of the WE421a/5998/7236 tube family changes the WA22 into a very powerful amp capable of driving even the HE6 well (though how well is, like everything else, a matter of opinion). I was never as much a fan of the HE6 as some are others here and sold it after not very long. Therefore, my experience with it is much more limited than with some other headphones and I want to be careful expressing anything approaching authoritative opinions about driving the HE6.

I consider the WA22 perhaps one of the best bargains (for some people, that's a poisonous remark) available in fully balanced tube amps. It is wonderfully musical, if driven by the "right" tubes, and it has a huge choice of still reasonably priced and available tubes. If it has a weakness, it's its lack of pre-outputs but that's not a significant drawback for the large majority of people who would be interested in the WA22. It's fully balanced, in and out. It has both twin 3-pin and a single 4-pin output plus a single ended output. It also has switchable balanced and unbalanced inputs and a selectable high and low impedance power switch. Given its musicality, wide range of usable tubes, modest footprint (for a balanced tube amp), and cost of just under $2K, it's a great amp. 

I recommend the 5998 over the 7236 simply because I find the 5998 more musical though it is less economical. However, as between the WE421a and the 7236, I think the 5998 hits the sweet spot of power, musicality, and economics. The ultimate is, of course, the WE421a, but these are much more costly than the 5998, which are much more costly than the 7236. All sound fine and few will be disappointed with, for example, the Sylvania 7236 (or, more especially the harder to find Tung Sol 7236), even though my preference is the 5998, as stated. Use your favorite drivers (generally, the 6SN7 class) and rectifiers (generally, the 274b and 5U4G classes) and you just can't go wrong with the WA22. With the higher power output tubes recommend here, the WA22 will be able to drive almost any headphone well, particularly the LCD2 or 3 and the HD800. Though I think the WA22 can drive the HE6 well, I don't want to stick my neck out quite so far for that claim and judgment is best left to personal audition at a meet or otherwise.

Good luck and keep this great amp high on your list unless you're among those for whom a $2K headphone amps would bring embarrassment to you or your family (to say nothing of the cost of its tube complement).


----------



## eric65

> *Responses abyss: yellow = pad pressed against measurement frame, blue = less sealed​, pink = even less sealed*





> The bass response (70-80 Hz) of the Abyss objectively varies by nearly 10 dB, depending on the seal or not of the pads.
> 
> 
> According to several people who have tested the Abyss, sealing pads seems impossible.
> ...


  

  
 Quote:


purrin said:


> Finally I would ask you this: even if a less than perfect seal, do you actually hear a +10db increase at 70-80Hz with the Abyss. I certainly don't. +10db at 70-80Hz would be extremely noticeable and annoying with most of the music I listen to. If the Abyss did truly exhibit such behavior, I would most certainly throw it away in the garbage can.


 
  
 Dub (french forumeur) which tested the Abyss says about this:
  
_"And on this point at least, listening and measurements are fully compatible - by changing the placement of the Abyss on the head (cf. seeking the position in which the rear bearings best rests on the back of the ears), *you can clearly hear a change in the bass* (which, IMHO, also causes a change in the image which seems more credible).
 For my part, besides, it is not so much the fact of "down low" that struck me listening, but the overall balance which is so to speak the "background" of the low register. However, I did not at all feel a brightness in the upper midrange supported - it is rather the opposite (eg, the first violin of a string quartet - even when it is Irvine Arditti that - I seemed softer than usual.)"_
  
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177954178.html#p177954178


----------



## eric65

eric65 said:


> Hello Purrin,
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Quote:


purrin said:


> Because all humans beings are built slightly differently, *in theory* I can see some people not being able to get a good seal. In practice, this has not occurred with the half-dozen folks who have dropped by my house for a listen.


 
  
   
*In practice*, Pierre Paya (Shiva on Head-Fi), Superfred21 (Member Head-Fi) and Arnaud also have encountered problems getting a complete seal pads with the Abyss.
  
*Links concerning recognized sealing pad problem*.
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177890488.html#p177890488
_"Abyss was used without sealing total pad / ear simply because it is not possible.
 Even plating headphones against the skull, the seal is not complete.
 We found an intermediate setting between a fully open headphones and maximum contact with high temples and jaw.
 In this case, the sealing was nonexistent."_
  
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177891911.html#p177891911
_"The adjustment on the head is at first not very easy, there is no real seal between the pad and the pinna, the made ​​to rotate pads ovoid allows the slightly adjust the height of the headphone."_


----------



## purrin

eric65 said:


> _"And on this point at least, listening and measurements are fully compatible - by changing the placement of the Abyss on the head (cf. seeking the position in which the rear bearings best rests on the back of the ears), *you can clearly hear a change in the bass* (which, IMHO, also causes a change in the image which seems more credible)._


 
  
 Yes, that is true. You can change the bass slightly based upon the position of the pads.


----------



## up late

fwiw i got to hear this can and liked it a lot. this is one can where the photos do it justice. kinda looks like something you'd find in the tool shed. wasn't sure how to put it on at first coz the earcups aren't marked. the sales guy pointed out that the colored cables indicate L and R which wasn't obvious. he also said that the trick is to wear them with the earpads lightly pressing against the ears. even tho it's a heavy can, weight distribution was good and it felt comfy for the hour or so i spent with it.


----------



## rudi0504

up late said:


> fwiw i got to hear this can and liked it a lot. this is one can where the photos do it justice. kinda looks like something you'd find in the tool shed. wasn't sure how to put it on at first coz the earcups aren't marked. the sales guy pointed out that the colored cables indicate L and R which wasn't obvious. he also said that the trick is to wear them with the earpads lightly pressing against the ears. even tho it's a heavy can, weight distribution was good and it felt comfy for the hour or so i spent with it.




The Easy Way To Know about Left and Right from Abyss 
Please hold on Your hand and see The ABYSS on Your head band , if you can read ABYSS than Your headphone Left and Right is correct .
You can see on The head band left and right , if you can read ABYSS , thats Mean Your left and right earcups are correct 

I am sorry i can not upload photos at The morment , My Photo bhuket got limitation 10 GB


----------



## up late

the easy way would be to mark the cups R and L  but no biggie.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

up late said:


> the easy way would be to mark the cups R and L
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I kind of agree but I got used to it


----------



## eric65

A headphone which costs 6000 euros, not adjustable in height, whose sealing of pads is not guaranteed for everyone _(with harmful consequence a peak up to 10 dB in the average bass  in case of incomplete sealing pads (see above))_ and which markings (right and left) is not insured ; it is amateurish, right? 
  
 PS: look carefully at the photo of my avatar (my son) with the headphone Stax (adjustable height it) ; see you wear properly an Abyss? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Same for my wife with her ​​little head who is hardly bigger.


----------



## x838nwy

eric65 said:


> A headphone which costs 6000 euros, not adjustable in height, whose sealing of pads is not guaranteed for everyone _(with harmful consequence a peak up to 10 dB in the average bass  in case of incomplete sealing pads (see above))_ and which markings (right and left) is not insured ; it is amateurish, right?
> 
> PS: look carefully at the photo of my avatar (my son) with the headphone Stax (adjustable height it) ; see you wear properly an Abyss?   Same for my wife with her ​​little head who is hardly bigger.




I'm inclined to agree. I'm certain it won't cost all that much more to make it more (apparently) adjustable. One reservation i have over buying the abyss is the way it looks. Not that my lcd makes me look normal by any stretch but this might strain things a bit. Call me vain but I look ugly enough without a pair of these on my head. However I'll have to try it on before I decide (on comfort). Comfort is not something I can judge by looking at a pair of cans.


----------



## up late

eric65 said:


> A headphone which costs 6000 euros, not adjustable in height, whose sealing of pads is not guaranteed for everyone _(with harmful consequence a peak up to 10 dB in the average bass  in case of incomplete sealing pads (see above))_ and which markings (right and left) is not insured ; it is amateurish, right?
> 
> PS: look carefully at the photo of my avatar (my son) with the headphone Stax (adjustable height it) ; see you wear properly an Abyss?   Same for my wife with her ​​little head who is hardly bigger.




not sure if you've tried this can yourself but i wouldn't trash it without hearing it first. sure it's no looker but lots of high end gear is ugly and hardcore audiophiles buy it anyways. i had no problems with the fit, comfort or the sound. it's a good can. is it $6k good? for me no but this is for cashed up hardcore head-fier's and collectors i guess


----------



## eric65

Hello,
  
*What is the actual sensitivity of the headphone Abyss and its power handling ?*
  
 According to the manufacturer, the sensitivity of the Abyss would be 85 dB / 1 mW
 No indication on the power handling of this headphone.
 http://www.abyss-headphones.com/abyss_ab_1266.html
  
 Thyll with his pre-series model of the Abyss have measured an sensitivity of 2.14 mW / 90 dB SPL, which corresponds to a measured sensitivity of 86.7 dB / mW.
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/JPSLabsAbyssAB1266.pdf
  
 Agnostic on the production model of the Abyss, in France, have measured a very much lower sensitivity headphones, 8 dB lower than that measured by Thyll : 13.5 mW / 90 dB SPL (instead of 2.14 mW / 90 dB SPL) which corresponds to a measured sensitivity of 79 dB / 1 mW.
 http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177969019.html#p177969019
  
 This level of sensitivity is low for a headphone. 
*What is the maximum sound level can be reproduced by the Abyss?*
  
 For comparison, the maximum level SPL of 009 Stax headphones is 118 dB (at 400 Hz) http://www.stax.co.jp/Export/SR009e.html

 To achieve the same volume level with the abyss (118 dB SPL), we should use a headphone amplifier of 2 x 8 Watts of power! _(if the effective sensibility of the Abyss is well at 79 dB / 1 mW)_

 Does this headphone could withstand such a power level (118 dB) knowing that the sound level used in the test frequency of the abyss in France was limited to 95 dB SPL (instead of 100 dB) due to a moving of the membrane too pronounced at low frequencies (and high level SPL) during the test? (*)
_" Harmonic distortion levels are also higher than other flagships, except that they do not hear to a reasonable level, they still show that we should not push too much sound (I do not have able to make a measurement at 100dB, the membrane began to frolic furiously low fréquences (maybe my amp not powerful enough, but I will not really believe) by the second magnet row certainly lacks, especially in relation to a HE500. "_
 http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177952159.html#p177952159
  
*Distortion Abyss level at 95 dB SPL*

  
_(*) (NB : the headphone amplifier used in the test was able to get 1 Watt per channel before clipping)._


----------



## superfred21

Stop spitting your venom on a headphone that you did not listen.


----------



## wink

The French revolution has started again.


----------



## eric65

superfred21 said:


> Stop spitting your venom on a headphone that you did not listen.


 
  
 I am just wondering about the actual qualities (and objective) of the Abyss, especially for headphones sold 6,000 Euros in France and declaimed by you and your group of friends as the best headphones in the world! 
 Owner of Stax 009 headphones (not a bad headphone, both subjectively and objectively) I like to understand (and analyze) the objective data. 
 Not you?
  
 PS : I asked Pierre Paya to lend me his Abyss for comparative listening with my Stax 009 used live on the mk2 RKV;  I received from him an flat refusal  ...


----------



## rudi0504

Hi All

I have own both headphone Stax Sr 009 and Abyss 1266

These two are excellent headphones 

Abyss 1266 is combination from Stax Sr 009 and LCD 3 

If you like smoothness and very clean sounding headphone than Stax is your choice 

If you like like the detail separation and clarity from Stax Sr 009 with very good bass and fast bass speed from LCD 3, more energy than Abyss 1266 is the right choice for you 

Abyss 1266 has fuller sound than Stax Sr 009 

Than you know which ones Is the best in the world 

IMO


----------



## superfred21

You have a short memory but you said on the french site HCFR the SR 009 was the best Headphone in the world, OK,  no problem. I am the owner of Abyss and SR 009, I love these two Headphone, but I just have a preference for Abyss, apparmment it makes you sick !


----------



## superfred21

*"PS : I asked Pierre Paya to lend me his Abyss for comparative listening with my Stax 009 used live on the mk2 RKV;  I received from him an flat refusal  ...*"
  
 Everything made normal you spoke about pierre as a swindler.


----------



## eric65

Objectively speaking the Stax 009 is much better than the Abyss. 
 Subjectively speaking, the opinions are divided. 
 The ergonomics of the Abyss (besides aesthetics) is disastrous (Nb: I doubt that my wife and my son can wear it one day, just their heads are too small and the Abyss is not height adjustable, which to me is unacceptable).
 When my health?, She's fine. 
 I'm a doctor!


----------



## VisceriousZERO

I'll just say both are amazing headphones. There's no "better" in this level of head-fi guys.


----------



## eric65

> Originally Posted by *superfred21* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...
> 
> I am the owner of Abyss and SR 009, I love these two Headphone, but I just have a preference for Abyss ....


 
  
 Hello superfred21,
  
 What amp do you use with your Abyss ?
 What tubes do you use with your Electra finally (for the 009) ?
  
 Otherwise, I regret that Pierre had denied me the loan of his Abyss, so, I do not have the opportunity to compare, myself, his Abyss with my 009 on my RKV mk2 amp.
  
 Concerning the rendering of 009 and what it is able to give us , I take the testimony of a doctor friend who discovered it 009 headphones and that I brought to ajr during New Year's Greetings :

" ... This doctor friend, a very close friend of the same age as mine wanted to hear my headphone system (Stax 009 + live RKV amp ) ; the played music was the second movement of the Piano Concerto No. 2 in C minor Rachmaninoff . I asked him if the sound seemed good (answer yes) and I asked him if the sound level seemed sufficient (with the Wee transformers by-passed) (answer yes) ; 12 minutes later, at the end of the second movement , my friend Bertrand was in tears , too emotional for him for this musical work , which reminded him too old (and good) memories , among others, that of making him known and loved classical music. "
  
 What does it ask more for a headphone ?


----------



## spkrs01

A quote from Daniel von Recklinghausen, a great audio engineer who used his ears and has an open mind - 
  
 "_*if it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad; if it measures bad and sounds good, you've measured the wrong thing*_"


----------



## eric65

spkrs01 said:


> A quote from Daniel von Recklinghausen, a great audio engineer who used his ears and has an open mind -
> 
> "_*if it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad; if it measures bad and sounds good, you've measured the wrong thing*_"


 
  
 Everyone doesn't have the expertise of a renowned sound engineer's ear to appreciate its just value the "sounds good".
 The "Sounds good" for ordinary people is so subjective and easily influenced that it is sometimes useful to refer also to the measures, more objective If they are made under severe (unbiased) and reproducible conditions.


----------



## AnakChan

eric65 said:


> Everyone doesn't have the expertise of a renowned sound engineer's ear to appreciate its just value the "sounds good".
> 
> The "Sounds good" for ordinary people is so subjective and easily influenced that it is sometimes useful to refer also to the measures, more objective If they are made under severe (unbiased) and reproducible conditions.


I think you're missing the humour in this mate .


----------



## eric65

The senses can be deceptive and measures may be biased. With this, do your best to see clearly in Hi-Fi.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

beauty is in the eye of the beholder. or ear.


----------



## scolaiw

visceriouszero said:


> beauty is in the eye of the beholder. or ear.


 
  
 Having said that, the Abyss is still one ugly mother. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Although I don't really see why there are so many people furiously arguing against the Abyss. Sure it has plenty of flaws, but that doesn't stop it from sounding like one of the best pairs of headphones that I have ever heard.
  


eric65 said:


> The senses can be deceptive and measurements may be biased. With this, do your best to see clearly in Hi-Fi.


 
  
 Does this matter at all? *Subjectivity is all that matters in head-fi.*
  
 If I believe my headphones sound better than yours, then at least to me it does. That's not to say that it is impossible for me to hear a new pair of headphones and declare them to sound better than my current ones. That's just normal ignorance. It just means that I could hear a so called "objectively better" pair of headphones and still believe them to sound worse.
  
 What I feel people often don't realise is that sound, like the rest of the senses are uniquely experienced and will always be subjective. I say let your senses be deceived and biased! So long as you faithfully enjoy the music and don't go shoving it down other people's throats, you're already in sonic bliss. 
  
*Thus, there is no perfect pair of headphones, only perfect pairs of headphones.*


----------



## customcoco

scolaiw said:


> Does this matter at all? *Subjectivity is all that matters in head-fi.*
> 
> If I believe my headphones sound better than yours, then at least to me it does. That's not to say that it is impossible for me to hear a new pair of headphones and declare them to sound better than my current ones. That's just normal ignorance. It just means that I could hear a so called "objectively better" pair of headphones and still believe them to sound worse.
> 
> ...


 
 Finally... FINALLY !!!


----------



## superfred21

scolaiw said:


> Having said that, the Abyss is still one ugly mother.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 +1
 I love your gif customcoco !!


----------



## customcoco

superfred21 said:


> +1
> I love your gif customcoco !!


 

 Thanks, no one does hand clapping as well as Orson Welles...


----------



## eric65

Then, Frederic (superfred21), if we remains in the subjective listens ; for you, what is the best of these two amplifiers to associate with the Abyss ?
 The full symetric amplifier AudioValve RKV mk3 of Pierre (at 4 K Euros) or the Eddi Current Balancing Act that you possess (at 4-4, 5 K $, depending on the choice of the tubes) ?


  
 http://www.eddiecurrent.com/Balancing_Act.html
  

  
 http://www.audiovalve.info/rkv3/audiovalve%20rkv%20mark3.html


----------



## customcoco

eric65 said:


> Then, Frederic (superfred21), if we remains in the subjective listens ; for you, what is the best of these two amplifiers to associate with the Abyss ?
> The full symetric amplifier AudioValve RKV mk3 of Pierre (at 4 K Euros) or the Eddi Current Balancing Act that you possess (at 4-4, 5 K $, depending on the choice of the tubes) ?
> 
> 
> ...


 
 In my very humble opinion, that Audiovalve is an absolute monstrosity...


----------



## eric65

customcoco said:


> In my very humble opinion, that Audiovalve is an absolute monstrosity...


 
  
 "birds of a feather flock together"


----------



## negura

customcoco said:


> In my very humble opinion, that Audiovalve is an absolute monstrosity...




My humble opinion starts with f and ends with ugly.


----------



## Radio_head

negura said:


> My humble opinion starts with f and ends with ugly.


 
 fits snugly?


----------



## negura

radio_head said:


> fits snugly?


 
  
 Bingo.


----------



## customcoco

eric65 said:


> "birds of a feather flock together"


 

 Ha! Nice one....


----------



## wink

The large tubes just have to sound better................
  
 It's all in the expectation bias.


----------



## thegrobe

negura said:


> My humble opinion starts with f and ends with ugly.




LOL. Classic.


----------



## eric65

Pierre (shiva) and Frederic (superfred21) what do you say of this:

 For Pierre, Abyss + AudioValve RKV mk3 is the best system ever listen (for him). 

 According to Pierre Paya (for Casques-Headphones), the mk3 (symetric) AudioValve RKV is a worthy successor to the legendary AudioValve RKV mk 2 (asymetric) and is one of the best and most powerful amplifiers for headphones ever built. http://www.audiovalve.info/rkv3/audiovalve%20rkv%20mark3.html and http://www.audiovalve.de/rkv/audiovalve%20rkv%20mark2.html
 It is more powerful than the also legendary Eddie Current Balancing Act and could be one of its direct competitors (at same price) for use high-end with the Abyss.

 There where I am getting, Pierre said that listening to the Abyss with the mk3 RKV is better than that of the Stax 009 with SRM 727. However the mk3 RKV uses a transformer in mode "transformer mode" for a < 100 Ohms load) (with his internal impedancer) to be properly used (in impedance) with the Abyss (of 46 Ohm of impedance). However this transformer (internal impedancer in the mk3 RKV) alters the quality of the audio signal (like any transformer).
 Conversely, Stax 009 can be directly used on an RKV "in OTL mode" (no output transformer on the audio signal), with a gain of transparency and presence obvious compared to the classic mode using the Wee impedance transformers 1:50).(NB: the Wee is used only to generate the bias voltage 580 V DC on the 5th pin on the Stax headphones).

 In this specific operation of the RKV on the 009 with the mode direct "pure OTL", is it not impossible that the 009 return to top on the Abyss, at least for the quality of the medium and the treble (not for the bass) in terms of transparency and presence ? over the Abyss when it is used in the mode "transformer mode" (with impedancer) of the RKV (mk3 with the impedancer internal or mk2 with the external impedancer).


----------



## customcoco

eric65 said:


> Pierre (shiva) and Frederic (superfred21) what do you say of this:
> 
> For Pierre, Abyss + AudioValve RKV mk3 is the best system ever listen (for him).
> 
> ...


 

 Doesn't Pierre sell the Audiovalve?


----------



## up late

sacre bleu!


----------



## eric65

customcoco said:


> Doesn't Pierre sell the Audiovalve?


 
  
 In France, Yes.
  
 For tubes (for my mk2 RKV unit) I recommend the Siemens Roher PCL805 (at 34 Euro per tube), more neutral and more accurate than the base tubes provided with the unit.
 http://www.audiovalve.info/shop.html


----------



## customcoco

eric65 said:


> In France, Yes.


 
 I don't care about the opinion of someone who's got something to sell...


----------



## eric65

The french market is currently very targeted for the Abyss; difficult to escape at this headphone on HCFR , its hype and this slogan_* "The Finest Headphones For Musical Reproduction"*_. To believe that the electrostatics headphones are coarse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 JPS Lab (or AlterAudio, the French importer ?) is pretty presumptuous If he thinks that more expensive = better.


----------



## customcoco

eric65 said:


> The french market is currently very targeted for the Abyss; difficult to escape at this headphone on HCFR , its hype and this slogan_* "The Finest Headphones For Musical Reproduction"*_. To believe that the electrostatics headphones are coarse
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That's in their interest.
  
 I remember that Alter audio once told me that the sr009 was so "great and popular" that they didn't need to ship demo headphones to brick and mortar dealers.
  
 "The people who can afford don't need to test it, they're staxes after all"... What I'm sure of, though,  is that those guys have more money than brains...


----------



## Hun7er

Eric65 why you try to discredit this headphone ?
 There is no perfect headphone even the Abyss but this one achieve to synthesized a large number of qualities that little headphone can do.
 Did you know that the Sennheiser Orpheus are better than your Stax Sr009. Why didn't try to discredit it.
 Please tell what do you think honestly instead of repeating the same things


----------



## customcoco

hun7er said:


> Eric65 why you try to discredit this headphone ?
> There is no perfect headphone even the Abyss but this one achieve to synthesized a large number of qualities that little headphone can do.
> Did you know that the Sennheiser Orpheus are better than your Stax Sr009. Why didn't try to discredit it.
> Please tell what do you think honestly instead of repeating the same things


 
 I guess that, in the first place, we should try to define what "better" means.
  
 I think that the hd650 is "better" than the Lcd2. That's my opinion, my audiophile brain prefers the good ol' senn. Why? I could try to write a comparison but in the end it won't lead us anywhere...
  
 You're doing the same as Eric65 when you tell us the HE90 are better than Eric's headphones without even trying to elaborate. What's the point?
  
 Eric doesn't like the Abyss, that's his right to say so. We're in a public place. Those who love can post, those who don't too.
  
 Fighting about on such a subjective topic is just so utterly irrelevant...


----------



## Hun7er

Yes I'm doing the same as Eric65 to show how is attitude is bad.
  
 Eric65 doesn't like the Abyss because it is ugly. He doesn't test it. His problem is that he paid the incredible price (more than 5000 euros) in France for SR009 and there is a new headphone that "seems better" thant his SR009.


----------



## customcoco

hun7er said:


> Yes I'm doing the same as Eric65 to show how is attitude is bad.
> 
> Eric65 doesn't like the Abyss because just it is ugly. He doesn't test it. His problem is that he is paid the incredible price in France for SR009.


 

 That doesn't lead anywhere, either.
  
 Well that's a problem for sure, the margin taken by both the importer and final (brick and mortar) dealer are obscene.
  
 I can't comment on the Abyss, not having heard it. I'd like to hear it for sure, out of curiosity, but the "game changing" aspect of the raving reviews of french forums leaves me with a bad taste...


----------



## eric65

hun7er said:


> Eric65 why you try to discredit this headphone ?
> There is no perfect headphone even the Abyss but this one achieve to synthesized a large number of qualities that little headphone can do.
> Did you know that the Sennheiser Orpheus are better than your Stax Sr009. Why didn't try to discredit it.
> Please tell what do you think honestly instead of repeating the same things


 
  
 This headphone is far from perfect, as many others.
 I do not like the advertising slogan of the Abyss, a bit presumptuous.
 On the other hand, I love the Sennheiser Orpheus system.
 If someone wants to swap it with my system, I'm interested!
 What beautiful system! Il love ..


----------



## Hun7er

I will have the JPS Abyss, buy in USA for 55% of the french price. I'm honestly I found the french price way too overpriced.
 Presomptuous we will see...


----------



## eric65

hun7er said:


> Yes I'm doing the same as Eric65 to show how is attitude is bad.
> 
> Eric65 doesn't like the Abyss because it is ugly. He doesn't test it. His problem is that he paid the incredible price (more than 5000 euros) in France for SR009 and there is a new headphone that "seems better" thant his SR009.


 
  
 4,600 EUR (in France) after negotiating (instead of 5,500 EUR) ;_ I know a little negotiating._




  
 "seems better" and "best" are two different things. 

 I would like to personally check with a test of the Abyss, but his loan has been denied to me by Pierre (the one that had sold me the 009). 
 Maybe it was fear that I am not of the same opinion as the others? I admit that my view is still subjective, as well as the others.


----------



## customcoco

eric65 said:


> I would like to personally check with a test of the Abyss, but his loan has been denied to me by Pierre (the one that had sold me the 009).
> Maybe it was fear that I am not of the same opinion as the others? I admit that my view is still subjective, as well as the others.


 
 Wait wait wait, you've bought a Sr009 (at that crazy price tag) from him and he doesn't allow you to check out the Abyss?
  
 *** And then he fell from his chair, crying from laughter ***


----------



## Hun7er

Sorry Eric65 but you know why he refuses to lend it, you've a conflict with him about the WOO Wee. At the beginning he likes better the WOO Wee than Stax amp but then he states that it is no better than stax amp. In result you continue in the same way with the JPS Abyss. I understand why you are upset but please doesn't mix all.
 The problem isn't the Abyss, it is Pierre, you have a resentment.
  
 I will have the JPS Abyss and I hope that you trust my future review


----------



## eric65

customcoco said:


> Wait wait wait, you've bought a Sr009 (at that crazy price tag) from him and he doesn't allow you to check out the Abyss?
> 
> *** And then he fell from his chair, crying from laughter ***


 
  
 Yes. It is the sad truth.


----------



## customcoco

hun7er said:


> Sorry Eric65 but you know why he refuses to lend it, you've tried to discredit him with the WOO Wee.


 

 I don't know and I don't care, but still. Eric's one of his customers and he's spent a lot of dough for his Sr-009. He has the right to demand some kind of customer service, that includes free tests of new products. If not then, why should you buy locally?


----------



## eric65

hun7er said:


> Sorry Eric65 but you know why he refuses to lend it, you've tried to discredit him with the WOO Wee. In result you continue in the same way with the JPS Abyss. The problem isn't the Abyss, it is Pierre.


 
  
 It is a crime?
 I did not agree with him, let's say, on the changing character of his appreciation of certain materials tested by me and him (the Woo Wee in particular)


----------



## Hun7er

I didn't say it's a crimes but you mix personnal affair with an judgment about headphone. So I will write a real review not simply "it's the best" but more critical.


----------



## eric65

I have an idea of this headphone with what I have at my disposal: it means : its visual appearance, its system of setting depending on the morphology of the heads, and objective data (measures) made by Tyll and Agnostic. Still listening to it, it is true. I cannot comment on this last point. Still need to be able to do.


----------



## customcoco

hun7er said:


> I didn't say it's a crimes but you mix personnal affair with an judgment about headphone. So I will write a real review not simply "it's the best" but more critical.


 

 That's the problem with Pierre's approach to business. He mixes personnal relationships and customer-ship. You can't forbid the access to a new set of cans to a customer because he shared a view on your work (the way you handle your shop) online.
  
 That'd be like Ferrari telling a client "no way you'll drive the f12, you've criticized the way our cars' build quality...". That'd be scandalous, wouldn't it?


----------



## n3rdling

I heard there's a really cool French forum you guys could take this to...


----------



## eric65

You're right.


----------



## customcoco

n3rdling said:


> I heard there's a really cool French forum you guys could take this to...


 

 You're right, sorry. This will all be deleted anyway.
  
 Sorry mods !


----------



## eric65

hun7er said:


> ....
> 
> *I will have the JPS Abyss and I hope that you trust my future review*


 
  
  
      
 Hello Hun7er,
  
 If you allow me, can you tell us a little more now that you have received your Abyss.

 Are you satisfied with your latest acquisition?

 How do you fit this orthodynamic headphone compared to your others headphones: Baby Orpheus HE-60; HD-800 and HE-6?

 Do you compare the Abyss soon to the Stax SR-009, because I understand that the 009 was also part of your futur audio acquisition projects?
  
 Thank you in advance for your opinion.
  
 Eric


----------



## Hun7er

eric65 said:


> Hello Hun7er,
> 
> If you allow me, can you tell us a little more now that you have received your Abyss.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hello Eric65,
  
 I'm very satisfied with my latest acquisition. 
 My previous reference headphone was the HD800. The HE60 can't touch it in terms of soundstage and airiness. The HE6 was too colored to my taste, the bass a bit bloated and it lacks a lot of airiness. Moreover the soundstage was poor.
  
 At the first time with the Abyss, I was a bit disappointed, I was no hearing a huge different with the HD800. But it was not burn in and I could listen it to a extend time. Currently I hearing it for 2-3 weeks and swap occasionally to the HD800 to fully understand the difference.
  
 The bass on the Abyss are thicker, more impactful but not as big as the HE6 and I prefer the Abyss presentation more natural to me.
 High are bit tamed comparing to the HD800 but it is more suitable for every genre of music.
  
 The airiness and the soundstage is on paar with the HD800.
  
 I think it doesn't share exactly the orthodynamic house sound, it is not thicker or rounded as the Hifiman HE6. It tends to be a super HD800.
  
 This morning I got a new preamp, the SMC VRE-1, it's a state of art, one of the best preamp. I've listened for one hour and it take my Abyss and HD800 on another league !


----------



## eric65

Hi Hun7er,
  
 Thanks much for your explanations.
  
 I would hold your comments this: Abyss, a kind of super HD 800 _(as, for example, the estat Sennheiser Orpheus HE-90 ?)_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It is flattering to the HD 800 which in the opinion of many is a very good headphones, especially when it is well amplified with a good synergy (as, for example, with the amp RKV)
  
 Eric


----------



## spkrs01

An excellent review if anyone interested, and a review that pretty much reflect my own feelings on the Abyss.............
  
 http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones/


----------



## eric65

spkrs01 said:


> An excellent review if anyone interested, and a review that pretty much reflect my own feelings on the Abyss.............
> 
> http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones/


 
  
 The opinion of Headphone Addict (and mine) on this review: http://www.head-fi.org/t/560425/stax-sr-009-best-headphone-ever-made-head-fi-tv-episode-008/285#post_10321886


----------



## Golfnutz

spkrs01 said:


> An excellent review if anyone interested, and a review that pretty much reflect my own feelings on the Abyss.............
> 
> http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones/


 

 It's too bad this guy did the review. Everything he wrote could be true, but after he posted the following review, I just can't take him seriously (too much bias for me).
  
 http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/cavali-audio-liquid-lightning-electrostatic-headphone-amplifier-playback-60/
  
 Why did he have to compare the abyss to the SR-009 anyway? What amp was he using with the SR-009? That might explain his preference.


----------



## spkrs01

golfnutz said:


> It's too bad this guy did the review. Everything he wrote could be true, but after he posted the following review, I just can't take him seriously (too much bias for me).
> 
> http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/cavali-audio-liquid-lightning-electrostatic-headphone-amplifier-playback-60/
> 
> *Why did he have to compare the abyss to the SR-009 anyway? What amp was he using with the SR-009? That might explain his preference.*


 
  
 http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/stax-sr-009-electrostatic-earspeaker-playback-54/


----------



## Golfnutz

spkrs01 said:


> http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/stax-sr-009-electrostatic-earspeaker-playback-54/


 

 I know, thanks.
  
 I'll just say, Purrin did a much better job comparing the two.


----------



## David1961

Most like to hear their music differently, which is why I don't take that much notice on reviews.


----------



## rgs9200m

The 009s and the Abyss sound so completely different that a better/worse comparison is almost moot. 
  
 (Edit: my post here turned into sort of a 3-way comparison of the Abyss, 009s, and LCD3s now that I read what I wrote here. I hope you find it useful.)
  
 As I hear it, the Abyss is in the Audeze sound-signature family. I find a similarity to the LCD3, with the Abyss having a larger space in all dimensions, somewhat more sizzly upper highs (but not distorted, just more present),
 and more air.
 The Abyss and the LCD3 are both excellent, and both have that magnetic planar sense of images that are fast and clear with a bit of silky coloration (no hardness) and slight softening around the edges, reminding me of what I hear with tube amps.
 I can't say I hear more detail in either, except in the bass, where the Abyss bass is a little more thunderous and tight and open, like speakers. The LCD3 has more forward, and slightly more liquid images.
  
 The 009's makes all other heaphones (including Stax's own SR007s) sound like a layer between you and the music has been removed, with little details that are startling because they were only slightly evident in other phones.
 Nothing, nothing, sounds like the 009s as I hear it in terms of shocking realism, and on some recordings, it can just be too much.
 But when the 009s are driven right and with the right music, I can just relax, appreciate the total exposure to the music, and let it all soak in and be awed.
 (It sounds like the best for 009s at this point is the BHSE with PSvane tubes, but I can't comment about this not having heard it, and I just have my lowly 007tA amp.
 My 009 impressions just come from my amp and some time with a Woo WES at a meet.)
  
 So, to summarize, the Abyss and the LCD3 have a family resemblance, both bring their own strengths to the table, and both are superb, with the Abyss having more of a 3D stage and a deep open-hall bass,
 while the LCD3s are more intimate, with more liquidity, and very sweet highs. I love the LCD3 highs as just the right balance of soaring to the heights but without fatigue or brittleness with any music.
 The LCD3 highs may be a bit colored but in just the right way, while the Abyss highs are simply direct, undistorted, and dependent on the recording for the amount of liquidity I hear.
 The 009s and Abyss are always compared because of price, but it is really a matter of taste in what you like to hear with headphones or musical reproduction in general.


----------



## Hun7er

So maybe I will prefer the SR099 because I like when the music realist and maybe the jecklin float is the ultimate headphone because I hear that it's a SR009 with fuller tone and more extended soundstage.


----------



## rgs9200m

If reality and microscopic detail is what you are looking for, the SR009 is your ticket, but be prepared to tune your food chain that feeds it to get it right (for me, that means not shrill/fatiguing).
 009s are the polar opposite of plug & play.


----------



## negura

I agree with most you've said in describing the SR009s. However, in terms of driving them my impression is quite the opposite: I never found any difficulty whatsoever driving the SR-009 starting from down low to the KGSSHV. They are easy to drive Stax, especially compared to the SR-007s. As long as the system is decently balanced, the SR-009s are an walk in the park to drive. They will be impressively transparent and rewarding even with relatively inexpensive amps. Even a low power class A speaker amp + a Woo Wee will put them a league above dynamics* straight off.
  
 And by the way, if one has a bright system any decent transparent headphones will respond accordingly, starting with the LCD-3s. The SR-007s despite their somewhat tamed character will respond very quickly to brightness. If you look at the frequency graphs, perhaps sometimes quicker than the SR-009s.
  
(*Abyss excluded)


----------



## rgs9200m

Thanks negura for your comments. 
 Just to clarify, it's not that the SR009s need lots of power, as they are quite efficient, it's just the quality of amplification and source that are important, and I reckon that some warmth upstream serves them best.
 (This is probably too tangential for the Abyss thread here, so I'll let this be at this point.)
 I will just point out that the Abyss is a very refined planar magnetic, but not a hyper detail monster (and I do not mean this in any negative sense).


----------



## eric65

hun7er said:


> So maybe I will prefer the SR099 because I like when the music realist and maybe the jecklin float is the ultimate headphone because I hear that it's a SR009 with fuller tone and more extended soundstage.


 
  
 SR-099! Wow... Is this the future successor of the famous SR-009 Stax headphones? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 For my part, where I find the most extraordinary the 009 with a good amplifier(*) (ie :neutral, not colorful, well dynamic and transparent, while remaining expressive, subtle and fine (for me the RKV in direct mode)) is in the extreme clarity and nuance of voices where the slightest inflection and detail is noticeable as if there was no distance between the source and the listener. Each voice is immediately identifiable in its slightest nuance, even when 5 to 6 voices, close in tone, are mixed.
  
  
(*) Edit : good amplifiers (for me) for the 009,  more demanding in quality of amplification than we think, are : BHSE (with the Psvane EL34PH tubes), KGBH, RKV (in direct mode OTL with Siemens tubes), Electra, and to a lesser extent, SRM 727 and SRM 007t2.


----------



## nehcrow

DAMN. Heard these today. DAMNNNNNNN
 Proper rig + proper audiophile
 That bass, that soundstage, that everything.
 Have not heard the SR-009 though


----------



## eric65

nehcrow said:


> DAMN. Heard these today. DAMNNNNNNN
> Proper rig + proper audiophile
> That bass, that soundstage, that everything.
> Have not heard the SR-009 though


 
  
 It is good (for an ortho), certainly, but are you ready to make the financial sacrifices necessary to buy it to replace your HE-500 ?

 To be "wow" too, listen also the SR-009 on a very good platform and you will tell us news.


----------



## nehcrow

eric65 said:


> It is good (for an ortho), certainly, but are you ready to make the financial sacrifices necessary to buy it to replace your HE-500 ?
> 
> To be "wow" too, listen also the SR-009 on a very good platform and you will tell us news.


 
 Hell naw bro
 $5000 for the headphones + at least $2000 on the amp + god knows on a DAC
 Hell nawwww, I'm no Bill Gates


----------



## eric65

I'm not Bill Gates, too, but really, I do not regret my investment


----------



## rudi0504

The Best Amp at Mook Headphone Festival

Source : IPad Air 128 Gb
Amp : Mass Kobo 394

Headphone : Bayerdynamic T1 balance
Abyss 1266

Sound quality : The best sound quality i ever heard pair With Abyss 1266, direct Ipad Air
SQ so incredible , very detail , wide soundstage , very Good bass impact
So Far is The biggest POWER headphone Amp i Ever heard
This is true higih End sound quality . I can imagine if My source CD Player
Plus DAC , This amp can take Me to eargasm 

If you like The sound quality from Chord Hugo , for sure you Will Love This Amp Mass Ko Bo 394
If i am not thinking My wife Will Be angry , i Wish to buy This Amps for My Abyss
Cost at The Show about 5K USD 

IMO

Mass Kobo 394 + Bayerdynamic T1


----------



## AnakChan

Thanks Rudi, your picture reminded me of a photo I took at the Mass Kobo booth in the Fujiya Winter Portaken Event in Feb '14 with the Abyss :-
  

  
 What I couldn't tell was how this amp compared to the LAu which I heard last year. I enjoyed this combination too.


----------



## rudi0504

anakchan said:


> Thanks Rudi, your picture reminded me of a photo I took at the Mass Kobo booth in the Fujiya Winter Portaken Event in Feb '14 with the Abyss :-
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I like Mass Ko Bo 394 ver much , I try to speak with Mr Masuda San to sell his demo unit to me , but he don't want to sell the demo unit , because he promise someone in Japan for demoing his Mass Ko Bo 394 , than was not my luck.

I haven't heard LAu , many friends said LAu sound quality very good too , I don't know LAu. Sound character warm or bright ?


----------



## eric65

Range of adjustment of the width of the JPS Abyss headphone head and human data (variability of the measurements of the width of the human head in adults)
  
*Range of adjustment of the width of the JPS Abyss (rigid headphone) headphone head: 2 cm*
*Variability of the measurements of the width of the human head in adults: 7 cm (12, 5-19, 5 cm) *
 (http://www.ifth.org/innovation-textile/upload/Image/IFTH_DossierdePresse_Mensurations_Adultes.pdf: page 24)
  
 Conclusion: better to not have a big head (or small) for wear the Abyss!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/560425/stax-sr-009-best-headphone-ever-made-head-fi-tv-episode-008/285#post_10341860


----------



## AnakChan

rudi0504 said:


> I like Mass Ko Bo 394 ver much , I try to speak with Mr Masuda San to sell his demo unit to me , but he don't want to sell the demo unit , because he promise someone in Japan for demoing his Mass Ko Bo 394 , than was not my luck.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sadly I can't say 'cos it was a 4 months apart when I heard the Abyss with the LAu and 394. And each time it was only for about 5-10 mins with difference source each time. That's why I'd wish I'd be able to listen to both side-by-side. The 394 is actually a practical size for homes with limited space.


----------



## ericfarrell85

Has anyone compared the Abyss with a powerfully amped HE6?


----------



## dBel84

Yes 
  
 I feel that the Abyss offers an insight into detail and tone that no other planar does ( for me ) and that includes stats. As a reference, the original Omega has been the best stat I have heard.


----------



## preproman

ericfarrell85 said:


> Has anyone compared the Abyss with a powerfully amped HE6?


 
  
 First they have to enjoy the HE-6 to start with.


----------



## ericfarrell85

Yeah, yeah D. Not everyone has the F1J to enjoy with their HE6.


----------



## holeout

rudi0504 said:


> I like Mass Ko Bo 394 ver much , I try to speak with Mr Masuda San to sell his demo unit to me , but he don't want to sell the demo unit , because he promise someone in Japan for demoing his Mass Ko Bo 394 , than was not my luck.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Just heard the Mass Kobo 394 driving the Abyss at a shop and I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised. Brief comparison with the LAu, I found the treble on the 394 to be more open with a bit more extension while the LAu is smoother but a bit laid back. Mids sounded quite natural on the 394 whereas LAu is more vivid and lush. Bass extension and control is great on both amps while impact favours the LAu. I'm really tempted to pick it up and see how it'll do under controlled environment and tweaks.
  
 Btw, the 394 does also drive the HD800 extremely well, a really great solid state alternative to my beloved ALO SS.


----------



## holeout

Couldn't get the Mass Kobo 394 off my mind last night so end up adding it to the stable 
  

  
 Letting it settle for a few days before more comparative listening...


----------



## starstern

do you agree with one of  these  terms of describing them ? what would you add or subtract or modify ??? 
  
  the Abyss and the LCD3 have a family resemblance, both bring their own strengths to the table, and both are superb, with the Abyss having more of a 3D stage and a deep open-hall bass,
 while the LCD3s are more intimate, with more liquidity, and very sweet highs. I love the LCD3 highs as just the right balance of soaring to the heights but without fatigue or brittleness with any music.
  
 Abyss 1266 is combination from Stax Sr 009 and LCD 3


----------



## starstern

kiertijai said:


> here are the amplifiers that we tested and matched very well with the JPS Abyss (which still needs more burn in)
> Mal Valve Three in fully balanced setup is one of the best combo out there especially it brings life to the mid
> especially for vocal music for the Abyss, if you want more laid back mid you may try Bakoon Amplifier and for
> really good dynamic swing AudioGD is the better one.  Burson Conductor and other in Munkong are under power


 
*the mal valve rather then the http://www.ttvjaudio.com/EAR_HP4_Headphone_Amplifier_p/ear0000015.htm  ??*


----------



## kimdaeim

These pictures are  ab-1266 with a new pad that designed to ease the pain due to the rubber band.


----------



## dBel84

That is very well done. I don't find the stock band uncomfortable but if you have to make your own, this is surely the way to do it..dB


----------



## arnaud

Looks quite a bit better that way, a bit warmer to the eye...


----------



## n3rdling

Takes the eyes away from the vice.


----------



## kimdaeim

The stock band was uncomfortable and painful to me. so i designed the new pad and made it at the leather arts shop.
 I have read some complains about abyss's stock band in Head-fi forum. I hope that these pictures are a solution for them.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

preproman said:


> First they have to enjoy the HE-6 to start with.


----------



## holeout

kimdaeim said:


> These pictures are  ab-1266 with a new pad that designed to ease the pain due to the rubber band.


 
 Wow, great idea! The stock band isn't too comfortable for me and always sags down a bit. With the new anchor position, I should be able to get the large portion of the band to rest on my head rather than less than 1/2 for the stock one. I'll see if I can have one made up with some adjustability. Besides, these look much more sturdy than the rubberband!


----------



## David1961

That headband probably adds to the comfort, but IMO they are still ugly headphones.


----------



## up late

won't win any beauty contests but they're pretty awesome sounding cans


----------



## kurochin

I think it looks a lot better. Yeah, the scaffolding isn't exactly beautiful, but the ugliest part of the Abyss to me was always the large tattoo-parlour/american-chopper fonts used for the logo on the headband. With that bit gone, it's already an order of magnitude better looking. 

Either way, it doesn't make a difference to the sound , plus it's probably more comfortable, so everything's good. Had the opportunity to try the Abyss at a show late last year and enjoyed the experience greatly. Can't personally justify spending $6K on a headphone (at least double that if counting an amp and source to do the setup justice), but those who can are lucky headphiles, no doubt.


----------



## David1961

up late said:


> won't win any beauty contests but they're pretty awesome sounding cans




Obviously SQ is the most important part in any audio equipment, but if I was a headphone designer I'd have to make them look nice, IMO something like the HE-90.


----------



## up late

yep - know where you're coming from


----------



## Joe Skubinski

With this first model it was all about the performance. We designed the frame structure to be as inert as possible. Minimal moving parts, no squeaky joints or head motion getting into the sound, minimized structure resonances, minimal back wave and destructive reflections, such that all you hear is the excitement of air molecules by the diaphragm. Is there a sexier way of doing all this? Maybe, but to spend another year or two on top of the five we already have into this to work it out would have raised the price even more. 

Everything is a trade-off at this level. We chose ultimate sound quality *and* reliability [qualité sonore *et *use fiabilité] over looks.


----------



## eric65

Hello Joe,
  
 Stax, with its flagship (SR-009), with the same specification that you, IE make a headphone at the forefront of technology, seems to have a little better managed as you regarding comfort, design, and the adaptability of the headphone at all heads; at this price point, it was the minimum expected.


----------



## David1961

IMO, the Stax SR-009's with their original headband are not very nice looking headphones, but even before I got the pair I have, I knew I was going to try and do a different headband.
I also had an idea that changing the headband might alter the SQ, but it was a risk was willing to take, also if the new headband didn't work I could put the original headband back on.
The headband I did hasn't changed the SQ and I'm now very happy with how my 009's look and they are as comfortable if not more comfortable than with the original headband.


----------



## up late

joe skubinski said:


> With this first model it was all about the performance. We designed the frame structure to be as inert as possible. Minimal moving parts, no squeaky joints or head motion getting into the sound, minimized structure resonances, minimal back wave and destructive reflections, such that all you hear is the excitement of air molecules by the diaphragm. Is there a sexier way of doing all this? Maybe, but to spend another year or two on top of the five we already have into this to work it out would have raised the price even more.
> 
> Everything is a trade-off at this level. We chose ultimate sound quality *and* reliability [qualité sonore *et *use fiabilité] over looks.




it's a great sounding can man and built like a tank. thought it was pretty comfortable too despite the weight.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Thanks!



up late said:


> it's a great sounding can man and built like a tank. thought it was pretty comfortable too despite the weight.


----------



## David1961

I've never heard the Senn HE-90, but some that has think it's one of, if not the best sounding headphone ever made.
While I've never heard the HE-90, it's the best looking headphone I've ever seen.

From what I've read about the Abyss, it's an amazing sounding headphone, but I can't see why looks had to be sacrificed, after all IMO Sennheiser didn't do that with the HE-90.


----------



## superfred21

Ok the Abyss will not win a beauty concour, but honestly do you think this is so important?
 Comfort is ok, its really very high level, the important things are there.
 Thank you to Joe for this great Headphone.


----------



## David1961

With a lot of things in life, most will go for something that looks nice as oppose to it looking ugly.
 I'm not after perfection with everything, but if I was paying the asking price for the Abyss, I'd want to be happy about it in every way, like I now am about my 009's.


----------



## superfred21

What is your point of view. It is not mine.


----------



## David1961

If you're happy with the Abyss that's all that counts. I'll leave it at that.


----------



## eric65

superfred21 said:


> Ok the Abyss will not win a beauty concour, but honestly do you think this is so important?
> Comfort is ok, its really very high level, the important things are there.
> Thank you to Joe for this great Headphone.


 
  
 Frederic, you're like everyone else, sensitive to the beauty.
  
 For proof, you have repainted in black the bolts (UH pardon the screws) of your personal Abyss  to make prettier.
  

  
 http://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=211213#p211213


----------



## holeout

joe skubinski said:


> With this first model it was all about the performance. We designed the frame structure to be as inert as possible. Minimal moving parts, no squeaky joints or head motion getting into the sound, minimized structure resonances, minimal back wave and destructive reflections, such that all you hear is the excitement of air molecules by the diaphragm. Is there a sexier way of doing all this? Maybe, but to spend another year or two on top of the five we already have into this to work it out would have raised the price even more.
> 
> Everything is a trade-off at this level. We chose ultimate sound quality *and* reliability [qualité sonore *et *use fiabilité] over looks.


 
 I really don't mind the looks, but it will be nice to have a head band designed for us with smaller heads. Maybe one with some contoured padding to raise it 1/2 - 1". I have to adjust the height every 5 - 10 min. or it will sag and put pressure on my ears. I ready adjusted the width quite tightly, and any tighter will affect the sound balance and will feel uncomfortable. Hope you can look into this.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

We have solutions for this, all you have to do is ask. I'll pm you...


----------



## Cortazar

Cavalli audio does not offer liquid gold amplifier at the moment. What would you recommend for someone who would like to buy an abyss headphones?


----------



## dBel84

cortazar said:


> Cavalli audio does not offer liquid gold amplifier at the moment. What would you recommend for someone who would like to buy an abyss headphones?


 
  
 Alex has said to me that there will most likely be another 1 or 2 LAu's available , there are extra parts for most of the build, he just didn't want to sell the promise of an amp without being able to deliver. But , this does not prevent you looking for other options, I just wanted to make it clear that there might be a few LAUs available.


----------



## seeteeyou

.


----------



## Cortazar

Are there any other amplifier that sound good with abyss? What abaout HE-Adapter and  good speaker-amplifier, any suggestion?


----------



## holeout

cortazar said:


> Are there any other amplifier that sound good with abyss? What abaout HE-Adapter and  good speaker-amplifier, any suggestion?


 
 I recently got the Mass Kobo 394 and it drives the Abyss quite beautifully. Lots of power with a neutral SQ, excellent highs. The 394 also pairs really well with HD800 and LCD X, with enough power even for the HE6. For me, the 394 and the LAu offer different sound characters: 394 - coherent, more neutral, a bit forward with excellent extension across the board; - LAu Smoother, a bit laid back with vivid mids and excellent sonic impact. Pick your poison.


----------



## seeteeyou

.


----------



## rgs9200m

FWIW, the RSA B52 is great with the Abyss, but I do use a Cardas Golden Cross IC with it for best results. So, just speculating, maybe one of Ray's tube amps will be a good match.
 The B52 is also a particularly fine match to the LCD3, and I have noted earlier that I find sonic-signature texture similarities between the Abyss and the LCD3 (with various amps).


----------



## baronkatz

joe skubinski said:


> With this first model it was all about the performance. We designed the frame structure to be as inert as possible. Minimal moving parts, no squeaky joints or head motion getting into the sound, minimized structure resonances, minimal back wave and destructive reflections, such that all you hear is the excitement of air molecules by the diaphragm. Is there a sexier way of doing all this? Maybe, but to spend another year or two on top of the five we already have into this to work it out would have raised the price even more.
> 
> Everything is a trade-off at this level. We chose ultimate sound quality *and* reliability [qualité sonore *et *use fiabilité] over looks.


 
  
 I agree that they sound great but to spend five years on something and release it with an unattractive and uncomfortable aesthetic design is ridiculous. It's like building a car that's faster and can handle better than a Ferrari or Lamborghini but looks like a 1980s Volvo (IE a box) and costs as much as that Ferrari or Lambo, this lacks imagination. When buying something you're not only paying for reliability and sound quality, what reliability really comes from headphones anyways? Sure some Fostex and Denon headphones are known to break apart but they are made in China from crappy plastics and hinges. Yours are made of metal, you could definately have thought of design too...
  
 Look for example at Schiit, they design beautiful looking sexy amps, but also focus on the internals using some of the best components and designing for sound qualty and looks. Not only that, but when they didn't get the metal with the beautiful finish they wanted, they even switched suppliers until they could find someone to bend the metal and make their design feasible and affordable. Now they make cheap amps that are made in the USA, from  great components and materials, sound good, and have an amazing design with a low price tag...
  


eric65 said:


> Hello Joe,
> 
> Stax, with its flagship (SR-009), with the same specification that you, IE make a headphone at the forefront of technology, seems to have a little better managed as you regarding comfort, design, and the adaptability of the headphone at all heads; at this price point, it was the minimum expected.


 
 What Eric said + I thought the Stax 009 sounded better to my ears at least. From the people I've talked to and even Mr. Cavalli's comments it seems to be a 50/50 split on who thinks what sounds better, although nearly everyone prefers the comfort and looks of the STAX.


----------



## rgs9200m

I think the Abyss is pretty comfy. There are no annoying pressure points, and it's not overly heavy either. It stays put on my head without clinging too much,
 and it adjusts in dimensions and angles not found on any other phones, so even a finicky person like me can get it right.
  
 With some phones, if the cups happen to rest the wrong way on your particular head anatomy, like your temple or upper jaw, there's not much you can do.
 But the Abyss has flexibility in just those areas, and it can be a blessing actually.
  
 It looks fine to me; I think it's impressive looking, like a serious classic car, very robust, but that's 100% subjective.
 (My wife always laughed at the R10s I used to have, saying they looked like weird-shaped wooden cupcakes, so there went my R10 ownership pride right out the window.)
  
 Last but not least, it sure sounds nice.
 So I wouldn't change a thing in the design.


----------



## nehcrow

They like fine in real life. Like some medieval device (even the writing is pretty medieval too)

 Them SR009 are way sexier though no competition. Has that Jap(anese - Mod edited. "Jap" is a derogatory term) stamp to it too


----------



## holeout

Just received from Abyss "a new leather headband which has slightly less stretchy bands on the ends so will hold the headphone a bit higher ". Just changed out the headbands and no more sagging for the past hour. Thanks Joe! From Joe's communique -  Abyss changed these elastic bands on the leather headband the end of last year.
  
Btw, they just posted a setup video for the Abyss 1266 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GundN7voH5o


----------



## rudi0504

holeout said:


> I recently got the Mass Kobo 394 and it drives the Abyss quite beautifully. Lots of power with a neutral SQ, excellent highs. The 394 also pairs really well with HD800 and LCD X, with enough power even for the HE6. For me, the 394 and the LAu offer different sound characters: 394 - coherent, more neutral, a bit forward with excellent extension across the board; - LAu Smoother, a bit laid back with vivid mids and excellent sonic impact. Pick your poison.




Thank you for your impression 
I have already choose Mass Ko Bo 394 , after I heard at Mook show on 1 and 2 March 2014 in Jakarta .
My friend ordered together with me last week 
He has LAu , he prefer Mass Ko Bo 394 too like me 

IMO


----------



## Butler

kurochin said:


> I think it looks a lot better. Yeah, the scaffolding isn't exactly beautiful, but the ugliest part of the Abyss to me was always the large tattoo-parlour/american-chopper fonts used for the logo on the headband.




I agree, makes it feel more like a trailer park and less like a leather and mahogany filled country club. The latter being what many flagships seem to strive for. 

It's like they borrowed the font from skull candy.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Man I can't believe people bitch about a logo.

It's a newer font we purchased a license to. We modified the capital 'A' by giving it an underlying tail. You decide what the tail represents.


----------



## Currawong

Guys, this is Joe's first headphone design. Stax and Sennheiser have been doing it for decades.  If you're worried that you might look like Frankenstein's Monster when listening, you're in the wrong hobby.


----------



## scolaiw

joe skubinski said:


> Man I can't believe people bitch about a logo.
> 
> It's a newer font we purchased a license to. We modified the capital 'A' by giving it an underlying tail. You decide what the tail represents.


 

 Hahaha, defensive much? People are gonna bitch about aesthetics no matter what. If the sound quality and comfort in a good pair of headphones is worth it's asking price (and often even when it's not) people will still buy it so really it doesn't even matter in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## En_R

seeteeyou said:


> And then there's another crazy amp from China as well
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/693696/abyss-ab1266-a-greatest-headphone-in-the-world-now-compare-with-009-lcd3-r10-and-so-on-in-this-thread
> 
> http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-244585-1-1.html


 
  
 This is a DIY amp made by a friend. Not something made for mass production.


----------



## Butler

joe skubinski said:


> Man I can't believe people bitch about a logo.
> 
> It's a newer font we purchased a license to. We modified the capital 'A' by giving it an underlying tail. You decide what the tail represents.




I'd hate to hear how much you purchased that for, hopefully that isn't a serious factor in the questionable cost of the headphones.

 I studied a lot of design in my undergrad, while I'm sure its not aesthetically distasteful for many, the font is something I find a little grating particularly for a product that aspires to be creme de la creme. When comparing luxury level flagships, I would rather feel pampered like I'm in wearing a smoking jacket in a smokey classy high end whiskey bar than I'm on the set of pimp my motorcycle. 

As the other poster stated, it just brings this kind of imagery to mind:



I get that you're just starting out, and that's awesome, I love idea of new blood in the scene. I have one of the first 500 Schiit Asgards. Jason and his wife assembled and soldered it in their garage when Schiit was just getting off the ground. But where you're entering with your first actual headphone (as opposed to a cable) with this price, it's considered a premium and luxury product and theres a feel and look that some have come to expect. I'm sure I don't need to name specific headphones.


But hey for what it's worth, I get upset over things like comic sans, and the abuse of the papyrus font, so take it for what it is, just a couple of people's opinions- and you know what they say about opinions. :atsmile:



scolaiw said:


> Hahaha, defensive much? People are gonna bitch about aesthetics no matter what. If the sound quality and comfort in a good pair of headphones is worth it's asking price (and often even when it's not) people will still buy it so really it doesn't even matter in the grand scheme of things.




Again, plenty of examples could be named where this has been the case. I've heard the K1000's are quite the experience.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

No worries, fonts are quite inexpensive. The bad-ass look is what we were after.


----------



## scolaiw

joe skubinski said:


> No worries, fonts are quite inexpensive. The bad-ass look is what we were after.


 

 I think you may have misunderstood Butler a little.


 For clarification, this does not equal the "bad-ass look".


 This does.


----------



## Hutnicks

scolaiw said:


> I think you may have misunderstood Butler a little.
> 
> 
> For clarification, this does not equal the "bad-ass look".
> ...


 

 Both wrong.
  


 Thats Badass.


----------



## scolaiw

hutnicks said:


> Spoiler: Original post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Same thing I was going for. Besides, Connery was a better Bond.


----------



## Hutnicks

scolaiw said:


> Same thing I was going for. Besides, Connery was a better Bond.


 

 I actually had my finger on the Connery Pic holding the LP53(I own one) but figured the audience here might be more Craig friendly.


----------



## scolaiw

hutnicks said:


> I actually had my finger on the Connery Pic holding the LP53(I own one) but figured the audience here might be more Craig friendly.


 

 Either way, I think the moral of the story is that Bond wouldn't want to be caught wearing an Abyss.


----------



## Fastnbulbous

butler said:


> I agree, makes it feel more like a trailer park and less like a leather and mahogany filled country club. The latter being what many flagships seem to strive for.
> 
> It's like they borrowed the font from skull candy.


 
  
 Lol. For some of us, "a leather and mahogany filled country club" evokes this:


  
 Whereas the Abyss evokes these:
  


  
 I much prefer the latter two! I love the look of the Abyss. They look metal and they are mostly made of metal. But the price is not metal. I understand having to recoup 5 years of R&D. Apply that experience to making another version 5x cheaper, then I'll be impressed, and actually be able to buy a pair!


----------



## kurochin

currawong said:


> Guys, this is Joe's first headphone design. Stax and Sennheiser have been doing it for decades.  If you're worried that you might look like Frankenstein's Monster when listening, you're in the wrong hobby. :duggfloat:



I look like Frankenstein's tranny brother even without headphones on


----------



## Hutnicks

kurochin said:


> I look like Frankenstein's tranny brother even without headphones on


 
 I'm not sure but I think that would make you Frank N Furter.


----------



## 45longcolt

hutnicks said:


> I'm not sure but I think that would make you Frank N Furter.


 
  
 FOFL!
  
 But not even Tim Curry would wear these ugly cans!
  
 I had this daydream of winning the lotto, getting a shop to machine all the excess metal off the Abyss frames and adapting them to an Audeze headband...
  
 ...and making some attractive grilles...
  
 I actually kind of like the logo - it appeals to my inner teenager.


----------



## David1961

45longcolt said:


> I had this daydream of winning the lotto, getting a shop to machine all the excess metal off the Abyss frames and adapting them to an Audeze headband...





While I think the headband on Audeze headphones doesn't look bad, ( unlike IMO the Abyss and SR-009's with their original headband do ) that wasn't the reason I changed the one on my LCD-XC's for the one I have now, the reason was because my LCD's with their original headband were way too uncomfortable ( too much clamping ) . 
While my LCD's are still quite heavy, I now find them to be very comfortable.


----------



## Pecari

hey holeout have you tried listening to the abyss on your wa7 by any chance and if yes was it a decent listen? thx in advance.


----------



## holeout

Yes I have. IMO, WA 7 is under powered to driver the Abyss. I have to turn the volume to 4 o'clock to get to a reasonable listening level, and still the stage size, impact and scale is limited compared to what the Mass Kobo 394 and LAu can deliver. The mids to mid-highs is quite nice though on the WA7.


----------



## Pecari

thx man for the insight. i actually plug my classe audio omega pre amp into the rca input of the wa7 finding the sound better in every way but at the same time gives me access to a lot more gain. bought my wa7D with the new tube psu at the montreal audio show last month with a pair of HD800. its a nice setup but not close enough to my main speaker rig yet  how would you compare the HD800 and abysss on the same amps? and have you upgraded the cable on your HD800? sorry for all the questions but your experience is very valuable to me  thx in advance.


----------



## holeout

Good for you! I have my eyes on the WA7 tube PSU since they displayed it a few months back, will definitely get it once it's available for order. With a bit more gain and the new PSU, I feel the WA7 may be able to drive the Abyss marginally better than current stock. However, I do feel that Abyss do like higher current amps and so far from what I heard, the Abyss pair well mainly with solid state amps. I do think you'll have a good time with this setup on the HD800. 
  
IMO HD800 and Abyss represent the top in it class (i.e. dynamic and planar phones), and they are two different animals. Without going into a full blown thesis, the HD800 pulls me into the music stage with all the glorious details for hours on end; whereas, Abyss engages me with exceptional details, layering and sonic impact that come closer to a speaker setup that no other phone can offer currently. Of course, both of these phones are notorious for amp pairing and any change/tweaks to the chain can scale the experience up or down.
  
 For the HD800, I have the Cardas Clear and Siltech Duchess Crown cables and personally I prefer the Siltech in terms with definition, timbre and coherence. Also waiting for delivery on the SAA Endorphin and will also pull the plug on the DHC Complement 3, I'll be making some adaptors so that I can use it on both the HD800 and LCDs to test out.


----------



## Pecari

cool would love your opinion on the endorphin cable was considering it. for you whats the best amp for hd800?


----------



## holeout

PMed


----------



## rudi0504

holeout said:


> Yes I have. IMO, WA 7 is under powered to driver the Abyss. I have to turn the volume to 4 o'clock to get to a reasonable listening level, and still the stage size, impact and scale is limited compared to what the Mass Kobo 394 and LAu can deliver. The mids to mid-highs is quite nice though on the WA7.




Can you please Share Which ones from these Two Amps LAU or Mass Ko Bo 394 has more Power to drive Abyss ?
Which amp is brighter and has more detail and better bass impact ?
Thank you


----------



## mulder01

Are there any Abyss owners out there that will run them happily from a portable dac/amp?  I know ideally you probably want a monster of a desktop system to get the absolute best out of them, but I've heard from a few places that the desktop combo of the Schiit Gungnir/Mjolnir is a perfectly acceptable (more budget) combo for running them and wondered if since there is portable gear out there around the same price point, if any of it might be considered, well, not a waste of time.  Any thoughts?


----------



## holeout

rudi0504 said:


> Can you please Share Which ones from these Two Amps LAU or Mass Ko Bo 394 has more Power to drive Abyss ?
> Which amp is brighter and has more detail and better bass impact ?
> Thank you


 
 IMO, with regards to power for driving the Abyss, LAu definitely has the upper hand - even on large orchestrational passages, there is a sense of calmness with no signs of compression or collapse in stage. Have said that, the 394 is not far behind - just not as calm, cool and collected as the LAu at the extremities.
  
 Between the 2 amps, 394 is the "brighter" one. But I wouldn't call it bright, instead the trebles being more forward and transparent. I have no problem with brightness when driving the HD800 with the 394, the HF sounded natural with excellent extension, one of the best treble I heard on HD800. On the LAu, the HF sounded to be layered further back and not as immediate as the 394.
  
 Details are abundant on both amps, just a matter of different presentation. I can't pick one over another.
  
 The LAu / Abyss is the best combo that I heard so far in terms of bass impact. Paired with the LAu, I can really see why they call Abyss "Ear Speakers"! 
  
 I recently replaced the stock Foundation shelving for the LAu with 1" acrylic shelf I've had made (stock one should be acrylic painted MDF), and the LAu sounded much better to me - more open treble with improved transparency and definition. That the love/hate part of hi-quality audio components, a small change here and there can have such an effect on SQ, it really takes time, patience, experience and passion to fine tune the system to ones preference...


----------



## holeout

mulder01 said:


> Are there any Abyss owners out there that will run them happily from a portable dac/amp?  I know ideally you probably want a monster of a desktop system to get the absolute best out of them, but I've heard from a few places that the desktop combo of the Schiit Gungnir/Mjolnir is a perfectly acceptable (more budget) combo for running them and wondered if since there is portable gear out there around the same price point, if any of it might be considered, well, not a waste of time.  Any thoughts?


 
 The only *portable* dac/amp i heard that can drive the Abyss OK is the Chord Hugo. I have to turn the volume almost full to get it to a decent sonic level. Of course, I don't think this is doing the Abyss full justice.


----------



## rudi0504

holeout said:


> IMO, with regards to power for driving the Abyss, LAu definitely has the upper hand - even on large orchestrational passages, there is a sense of calmness with no signs of compression or collapse in stage. Have said that, the 394 is not far behind - just not as calm, cool and collected as the LAu at the extremities.
> 
> Between the 2 amps, 394 is the "brighter" one. But I wouldn't call it bright, instead the trebles being more forward and transparent. I have no problem with brightness when driving the HD800 with the 394, the HF sounded natural with excellent extension, one of the best treble I heard on HD800. On the LAu, the HF sounded to be layered further back and not as immediate as the 394.
> 
> ...




Thank you for your impression


----------



## rudi0504

mulder01 said:


> Are there any Abyss owners out there that will run them happily from a portable dac/amp?  I know ideally you probably want a monster of a desktop system to get the absolute best out of them, but I've heard from a few places that the desktop combo of the Schiit Gungnir/Mjolnir is a perfectly acceptable (more budget) combo for running them and wondered if since there is portable gear out there around the same price point, if any of it might be considered, well, not a waste of time.  Any thoughts?




My best portable set up pair with Abyss :

Source : iPhone 4 s / iPhone 5 s
Dac : cypher labs class solo original 
Amp : ALO Rx 3 B 
Cable : use balance 4 pin to RSA


----------



## rudi0504

holeout said:


> The only *portable* dac/amp i heard that can drive the Abyss OK is the Chord Hugo. I have to turn the volume almost full to get it to a decent sonic level. Of course, I don't think this is doing the Abyss full justice.




I am agree with you about chord Hugo


----------



## mulder01

Well that's actually really pretty good news for me about the Algorhythm solo / Rx 3B combo... 
 The reason I asked about this is because I auditioned a few Audeze headphones a little while ago and really liked the sound of the LCD-X.  At the time I was listening to them off my ipod, through an Algorhythm solo and an Rx3B amp.
 The store I was at also had a pair of Abyss set up for demo on some very expensive gear that the salesman insisted I listened to.  I loved it, of course, but didn't give it any real consideration at the time because of the price.  At this point I figured if you're going to spend that much on a pair of headphones, the only way to run them would be off an amp and dac in roughly the same price range.  I've since found out that this is not necessarily the case.
 What I was trying to work out, is, if I could get the LCD-X with an amp and dac that would also be acceptable for running a pair of Abyss (just in case one day I could afford them).  Then it would make the upgrade a lot more possible if the only thing I had to buy was the headphones rather than a whole new setup.
 Rudi0504, if you are using the original Algorhythm solo, does that mean you're not running them balanced for a reason?


----------



## rudi0504

mulder01 said:


> Well that's actually really pretty good news for me about the Algorhythm solo / Rx 3B combo...
> 
> The reason I asked about this is because I auditioned a few Audeze headphones a little while ago and really liked the sound of the LCD-X.  At the time I was listening to them off my ipod, through an Algorhythm solo and an Rx3B amp.
> The store I was at also had a pair of Abyss set up for demo on some very expensive gear that the salesman insisted I listened to.  I loved it, of course, but didn't give it any real consideration at the time because of the price.  At this point I figured if you're going to spend that much on a pair of headphones, the only way to run them would be off an amp and dac in roughly the same price range.  I've since found out that this is not necessarily the case.
> ...




Hi Mulder 

Yes in this set up I use SE for my input , but I use balance out for my abyss 

Cypher labs class solo original has the highest gain compare to Class DB , that's why I chose as Dac 

IMO


----------



## rudi0504

My New desktop amp Mass Ko Bo 394 pair With Abyss


----------



## DarknightDK

That's a great amp! It's not too well known here on headfi as its hand built in Japan I believe. Heard it once at a meet and I was pretty impressed with it.
  
 How does it sound with the Abyss?


----------



## rudi0504

darknightdk said:


> That's a great amp! It's not too well known here on headfi as its hand built in Japan I believe. Heard it once at a meet and I was pretty impressed with it.
> 
> How does it sound with the Abyss?




mass Ko Bo 394 pair with Abyss SQ is excellent 
The best amp I ever heard can drive Abyss 
I have tube pre amp from T+AP10.2. SQ is excellent but lack of power / better said current to drive Abyss
High so effortless and better presence 
Mid very clear and sweet 
Bass :very deep bass impact and very fast bass speed with a lot if detail 

It is hand made took about 2 month to order 

IMO


----------



## jackskelly

rudi0504 said:


> mass Ko Bo 394 pair with Abyss SQ is excellent
> The best amp I ever heard can drive Abyss
> I have tube pre amp from T+AP10.2. SQ is excellent but lack of power / better said current to drive Abyss
> High so effortless and better presence
> ...


 
  
 rudi0504,
  
 Having owned both the SR-009 and Abyss, do you overall prefer the Abyss (with your current amp)?


----------



## rudi0504

jackskelly said:


> rudi0504,
> 
> Having owned both the SR-009 and Abyss, do you overall prefer the Abyss (with your current amp)?




These two are my best headphone 

My Stax Set up :
CDP Stello CDA 500 > Stax Amp Srm 727 mk 2 > Pre amp tube T+A P10.2 > SR 009 

High : Stax is well known as very clean and clear high , Abyss is slightly below Stax Sr 009 their clarity and detail 
Mid : very smooth , sweet and intimate sounding mid, abyss is more forward and as smooth as Sr 009 
Bass : very good sounding bass , but less impact and deep than my Abyss.
Separation : Stax has slightly better separation 
Soundstage : Stax has wider soundstage , but less depth , Abyss has better depth 

Vs 

My Abyss set up :
CDP Stello CDA 500 > Mass Ko Bo amp with balance cable DIY > abyss 1266

High : abyss high is slightly behind Stax the clarity , but faster transcient
Mid : sweet but Stax is more intimate , abyss mid is more weight 
Bass : this the strong point from Abyss , the best bass reproduction from headphone I ever heard 
 Very deep and clean and fast bass 
Separation : more or less I can say on par 
Soundstage : 
Stax has better wide , Abyss has better depth 

Of I drive use only Stax Srm 727 mk 2 , than abyss use Masx Ko Bo is the winner 

With the set up above , they are on par , that hang from the music genre what I heard

IMO


----------



## zachchen1996

rudi0504 said:


> These two are my best headphone
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Hey Rudi,

Have you ever considered getting the kgsshv or BHSE for your 009's?


----------



## holeout

Congrads Rudi, agree with your views with the 009 and Abyss. Anyway, here's some of the internals of the MK394:
  

  

  
 Very neat layout and screening. Can't take the cover off the transformer / PS side as it's soldered on to the board. Only thing I don't really like are the RCA connectors - they sometimes loose contact with my Stealth Sakras. May change them to other hi-quality ones later hardwired to the board. Not an issue if using XLRs.


----------



## rudi0504

holeout said:


> Congrads Rudi, agree with your views with the 009 and Abyss. Anyway, here's some of the internals of the MK394:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you 
Wow looks so clean


----------



## rudi0504

zachchen1996 said:


> rudi0504 said:
> 
> 
> > These two are my best headphone
> ...




I have heard BHSE , but I haven't heard KGSSHV 

So far I prefer my Stax set up than BHSE 

IMO


----------



## dBel84

Interesting that they appear to be using a switchmode power supply. This is not a 2 box design is it with the transformer in another chassis?
  
 Thanks for sharing the images, I had been curious what was under the steel shield.
  
 ..dB


----------



## holeout

MK394 does not have a external PSU. It does appear to be a switch mode ps. Superb sounding amp for LCD X, HD800 and Abyss though. I'll study the circuit traces a bit more from the bottom side of the board next time I remove the covers.


----------



## dBel84

good to hear that you have such a positive experience with the amp . My guess at the design is a simple ( and I like simple ) opamp gain stage with a push pull classA output stage. The power resistors on the output most likely attenuate the noise floor ( this is purely a function of high bias output stage ) . I am sure the engineers put a lot of R&D into the psu to keep the noise floor lower than an off the shelf SMTP supply. I have read some of work being done in this area and it is very promising for the mass market, it would be great not to have to rely on massive power transformers and complex regulators for clean power. 
  
 thanks for sharing your experience and the details of the amp, I will hopefully get to hear the Abyss on the amp one day. 
  
 ..dB


----------



## rudi0504

Sunday morning set Up

Source : AK 240 through LINE OUT
Desktop Amp : Mass Ko Bo 394 full balance HP amp
Gain : High
Volume : Max 11 - 13
Headphone : Abyss 1266
Cable : Centrance RCA to 6,3 mm plus 6,3 mm to mini plug Furutech

My impression

High : very clean, Clear and best clarity and better presence compare With Other Amps , is similar to mynStax SR 007
Mid : very sweet Clear abd clean midrange With very Good pronounce so effortless
Bass : The best Bass i Ever heard from Abyss pair With Mass Ko Bo , very Deep detail and very Good bass impact
Separation : excellent separation This is on par With Stax SR 007 mk2
Soundstage : very Wide and very Good Depth is like In very big concert hall
Background : very black background / very quiet

Overall :

Abyss best Synergy pair With Mass Ko Bo 394 , i can hear The Max potential from My Abyss now , The clarity almost like Stax headphone , very sweet and intimate sounding mid With better pronounce and clarity , that i can hear how The sanger breath very noticeable .the plus Point Abyss pair With Mass Kobo is teh strong And very Deep bass reproduction
I Ever heard on headphone , and very clean sounding. Bass too With very well controlled bass Speed
Even though With The source Only AK 240 has so excellent sound quality .
If i pair With High End Transport and DAC , Mass Kobo can produce even better
My friend Said like High End home Set Up 50 K USD hahaha 
IMO


----------



## Kiats

Hiya! Has anyone tried aftermarket cables with the Abyss? I would love to hear about your experiences!


----------



## NinjaHamster

kiats said:


> Hiya! Has anyone tried aftermarket cables with the Abyss? I would love to hear about your experiences!


 
 There probably isn't much point given the quality (and price!) of the included cable.


----------



## mulder01

The replacement cost of the stock cable is over $1000 isn't it?


----------



## NinjaHamster

Yes - at least in Australian dollars.


----------



## sathyam

Has anyone tried this headphone with the Auralic Vega/Taurus MK2 setup? Does that setup bring out the best of this headphone like LAu?


----------



## MensWearhouse

rudi0504 said:


> Sunday morning set Up
> 
> Source : AK 240 through LINE OUT
> Desktop Amp : Mass Ko Bo 394 full balance HP amp
> ...




How is the mass ko Bo with the HD800's and wow those are beautiful wires!!!


----------



## holeout

menswearhouse said:


> How is the mass ko Bo with the HD800's and wow those are beautiful wires!!!


 
 IMO Mass Kobo 394 pairs extremely well with the HD800, easily one of the best SS amp pairing. The treble really knocked me out, lots of detail and extension, clean but musical while not sounding over bright. All these while maintaining excellent bass control and engagement. Having used the ALO SS for the pass 6 months with the HD800, the 394 really exceeded my expectation.


----------



## ambchang

FWIW an overview of the Abyss headphone for normal people.
  
 https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/video/big-spender-5-500-headphones-204810652.html
  
 Alluded to the HD800, and compared it to the Beats (I am not kidding).


----------



## pearljam50000

Can anyone compare to HD800?are they worth the extra cash?


----------



## mulder01

Can I ask if anyone in Australia will reveal what they actually paid for a pair of these?  I know the retail is $6699 but what could you actually expect to get them for?


----------



## starstern

eric65 said:


> Hi Hun7er,
> 
> Thanks much for your explanations.
> 
> ...


 
 i happen to approach difficulties in finding any review or forums on comparing _ Audio-Valve RKV Mk.II _to cavalli gold or masskobo 394 or woo audio ,making an appeal please come on someone and share your experience


----------



## nickif

Spent 3 hours on mass kobo 394 this weekend, it is an amazing amp when paired with hd 650s, hd 800s and T1s. Did not have a pair of abyss to try out but will do so soon. The kobo has beautiful highs and touching mids, music flows out with a sense of ease, bass are refined but not quite deep. It's an all-rounder for high impedance headphones. Taking into account its small footprint, it's a superb amp, very much impressed!


----------



## rudi0504

holeout said:


> IMO Mass Kobo 394 pairs extremely well with the HD800, easily one of the best SS amp pairing. The treble really knocked me out, lots of detail and extension, clean but musical while not sounding over bright. All these while maintaining excellent bass control and engagement. Having used the ALO SS for the pass 6 months with the HD800, the 394 really exceeded my expectation.




I am totally agree With Your impression holeout


----------



## madcat

holeout said:


> IMO Mass Kobo 394 pairs extremely well with the HD800, easily one of the best SS amp pairing. The treble really knocked me out, lots of detail and extension, clean but musical while not sounding over bright. All these while maintaining excellent bass control and engagement. Having used the ALO SS for the pass 6 months with the HD800, the 394 really exceeded my expectation.


 
  
 Just to reiterate, would you say 394 pair better with HD800 than ALO SS?


----------



## holeout

I really can't say which is a better pairing with the HD800. ALO SS, to me, sounded organic with a slight touch of warm that can draw me into the music hours on end; 394 is downright exciting and neutral sounding. I love both depending on the mood I'm in.


----------



## rudi0504

I want share my impression abyss 1266 vs LCD 3 with Crystal cable Diamond Reference

Source : AK 240
Dac / Amp : Chord Hugo
Headphone :
Abyss 1266 with stock cable
LCD 3 Fazor with Crystal Cable Diamond Reference
Cable : Sys Concept optical cable

High :
Abyss : very clean extended high with better high presentation and has better clarity
LCD 3 Fazor Fazor : very good but not so clean and less clarity compare to Abyss

Mid :
Abyss : very clean and natural sounding mid that we can hear how the Sanger breath very clear
Very deep clear mid
LCD 3 Fazor : is creamy mid and has thicker mid , but not so clean as Abyss

Bass :
Abyss : the best bass reproduction from headphone I ever heard
Very good in detail and very deep and clean bass ,very good bass speed
And very good bass impact
LCD 3 Fazor : very good bass reproduction and very deep too , the speed not as fast as what abyss done
And not so clean as Abyss

Separation :
Abyss : has the best music separation on par with Stax Sr 009
LCD 3 Fazor : very good separation not as good as Abyss

Soundstage :
Abyss : very Wide and very Deep presentation like In big concert hall
LCD 3 Fazor : Wide and very Good Depth like In small concert hall / jazz studio recording

Black background :
Abyss : has very black background , so Far on par With stax SR 009
LCD 3 Fazor : has little bit background noise

IMO


----------



## Fririce0003

pearljam50000 said:


> Can anyone compare to HD800?are they worth the extra cash?


 
   IMO they're two very different sounding headphones, I've previously owned the PS1000 and HD800, out of the two the Abyss are more like the grado's. A fun lively listen, they're still incredibly detailed and well extended but the HD's have a slight edge in soundstage width. Imaging and bass impact on the Abyss is the best I've heard and the Abyss out of my WA5 with KR 300B's, Sylvania bad boys and Full Music 274b/n/+ tubes is the best listening in terms of detail and overall enjoyment that I've ever had.
   The only other system I've spent an amount of time with that can somewhat compare is my speaker setup. Recently got a pair of Vienna Acoustic Klimt the Kiss speakers which I'm feeding from a pair of Auralic Meraks directly connected to my Vega DAC. The sound signature is very similar, engaging, detailed and impactful. Yet the Abyss has the Kiss beat in every aspect except physical bass impact, the Abyss has more bass weight, extension and is more visceral but it obviously cant go shaking the floor or chairs... Sound staging is actually about as good just different positioning, with the kiss your in the audience a few rows back, with the Abyss your on the stage, you can hear everything happening around you. Very well placed and spaced.
   As to whether you feel its worth it is up to you, for me it was well worth it, enough to sell my PS1000's, HD800's and only use my T1's for portable use... Even made me upgrade my speakers because my previous Zu Audio Soul Supreme's just didn't cut it anymore, and they still have the Vienna's beat.
   Though if you liked the HD800 sound I'd also have a look at the SR009 as an endgame alternative. The Abyss is for those who want detail and extension but not at the expense of musicality. The SR009 is for those who want the final word in detail, though I haven't spent much time with the SR009 so take this with a grain of salt.
  


mulder01 said:


> Can I ask if anyone in Australia will reveal what they actually paid for a pair of these?  I know the retail is $6699 but what could you actually expect to get them for?


 
  
 I got mine from A2A for about $6200, cant remember the exact price. Though you may be able to get them cheaper depending on payment method, I payed with Visa, Amex is charged more, direct deposit charged less. Though if your a good, repeat customer they'll usually wave the card fee.


----------



## David1961

A head-fier friend that's tried on the Abyss told me he found them uncomfortable to wear, I'll never find that out because I'm not brave enough to put them on my head.

He also told me how they sounded, but I'll leave it to him to post his thoughts assuming he'd want to.


----------



## Fririce0003

david1961 said:


> A head-fier friend that's tried on the Abyss told me he found them uncomfortable to wear, I'll never find that out because I'm not brave enough to put them on my head.
> 
> He also told me how they sounded, but I'll leave it to him to post his thoughts assuming he'd want to.




 Really, uncomfortable how? I mean they're not as comfortable as the HD800, but I can wear them indefinitely without discomfort. More comfortable than both the PS1000, T1 and SRH940 even with glasses.
 They are heavy though which might be it, though the weight isn't as noticeable as with audeze phones. Just gotta do more shrugs at the gym


----------



## sathyam

Tyll's review on Inner Fidelity says he had to spend quite sometime working with the adjustments. Once he got the adjustments, right, he said the AB-1266 were comfortable enough to wear for extended periods. Looks like these HPs are not like your traditional HPs where the ear pieces rest on top of your ears. They are supposed to surround your ears without resting on top of you ears and hence the time needed for initial setup. Imagine putting a weight almost double that of LCD-3 on your ear!!

I am expecting to get these for 2 weeks as a loaner in Aug or October. Super excited!


----------



## up late

been a while since i tried it but it was surprisingly comfortable for such a heavy can and it sounded awesome. the earpads surrounded my ears and the idea is to have a light seal.


----------



## David1961

fririce0003 said:


> Really, uncomfortable how? I mean they're not as comfortable as the HD800, but I can wear them indefinitely without discomfort. More comfortable than both the PS1000, T1 and SRH940 even with glasses.
> They are heavy though which might be it, though the weight isn't as noticeable as with audeze phones. Just gotta do more shrugs at the gym


 
  
 My head-fier friend did say one of the reasons he found the Abyss uncomfortable was their weight, but he also said he couldn't get them to fit properly.
 I have the LCD-XC's so weight wouldn't be a problem regarding me wearing the Abyss, I just won't put them on my head because IMO they're so darn UGLY.


----------



## pearljam50000

david1961 said:


> My head-fier friend did say one of the reasons he found the Abyss uncomfortable was their weight, but he also said he couldn't get them to fit properly.
> I have the LCD-XC's so weight wouldn't be a problem regarding me wearing the Abyss, I just won't put them on my head because IMO they're so darn UGLY.


 
 Is this fashion-fi?


----------



## rudi0504

david1961 said:


> A head-fier friend that's tried on the Abyss told me he found them uncomfortable to wear, I'll never find that out because I'm not brave enough to put them on my head.
> 
> He also told me how they sounded, but I'll leave it to him to post his thoughts assuming he'd want to.




I and my friends who own Abyss don't have any problem to wear thus Abyss 1266 for long listening time 

The design make the weight distribution to our head excellent , the pressure is less than my Audeze headphones .

Abyss is revealing headphone , abyss need very good source and amps 
Once you get the synergy , the round quality is excellent compare to another headphones .

What kind of source and amps has your friend ?


----------



## David1961

pearljam50000 said:


> Is this fashion-fi?


 
  
 If you like the look of them then that's your choice, but please try wearing them while walking through a city so everyone can see them, then count how many laughs you get.


----------



## customcoco

david1961 said:


> If you like the look of them then that's your choice, but please try wearing them while walking through a city so everyone can see them, then count how many laughs you get.


 




  
 Especially as they're, IMHO, way worse-looking in the metal... 
  
 How can one sell a pair of cans for 6K$ and mess up with something as simple as the look fit and finish though, is beyond me.


----------



## Fririce0003

david1961 said:


> My head-fier friend did say one of the reasons he found the Abyss uncomfortable was their weight, but he also said he couldn't get them to fit properly.
> I have the LCD-XC's so weight wouldn't be a problem regarding me wearing the Abyss, I just won't put them on my head because IMO they're so darn UGLY.




Hahaha they're not the prettiest cans, but at least once you've got them on you can't see them! Well unless you have a mirror by your head-fi station


----------



## David1961

rudi0504 said:


> I and my friends who own Abyss don't have any problem to wear thus Abyss 1266 for long listening time
> 
> The design make the weight distribution to our head excellent , the pressure is less than my Audeze headphones .
> 
> ...


 
  
 My friend doesn't own a pair of Abyss, he tried them at a headphone place.
 He doesn't know what source was being used, but the amp was a Bryston.


----------



## sathyam

Come on, Home Headphones are not fashion accessories. These are not HPs you use for mobile use. These are for stationary use. They may be ugly. But if they do the job: details almost as good Stax 009, imaging as good as HD800 and LCD-3's bass and fun listening, who gives a damn if it is UGLY.

This is Head-Fi, it's all about the sound. Do your ears like what they hear?

By the way, there is 1-2 month wait on these "ugly" HPs.


----------



## chengka7

Just got mine from Woo Audio, Jack seems still have some left in stock.


----------



## preproman

I sure don't wear any of my headphones outside unless it's my Dr. Dre Beats..


----------



## pearljam50000

The Abyss and AKG K1000 are the geekiest looking headphones ever


----------



## customcoco

sathyam said:


> Come on, Home Headphones are not fashion accessories. These are not HPs you use for mobile use. These are for stationary use. They may be ugly. But if they do the job: details almost as good Stax 009, imaging as good as HD800 and LCD-3's bass and fun listening, who gives a damn if it is UGLY.
> 
> This is Head-Fi, it's all about the sound. Do your ears like what they hear?
> 
> By the way, there is 1-2 month wait on these "ugly" HPs.


 
 It's not only about the way they look to other people, but the way the feel in the hands of the beholder too.
  
 When I buy expensive things I don't only look after their functions, form has its importance too.
  
 You wouldn't buy an ugly expensive car, would you ? Why then ? It might get you from A to B just as fine as a good looking one (it might even drive better...) .
  
 The same goes for a house, it's only a shelter after all, who cares about the way it looks ?
  
 More specifically, my problem comes from the fact that the Abyss' performances (whether you like it or not, that's not the matter) wouldn't suffer from subjectively "better" (or should I say, conventional) looks.
  
 Those aesthetic details don't seem to participate in a quest of ultimate technical perfection, like they might, to some extent, on a HD800 or a Qualia.
  
 My ears don't like them, neither do my eyes and hands, but that's another matter entirely.
  
 I don't understand your last point, the fact that many people buy them doesn't make them more desirable. It just makes them "succesful" as a commercial product.


----------



## sathyam

customcoco said:


> It's not only about the way they look to other people, but the way the feel in the hands of the beholder too.
> 
> When I buy expensive things I don't only look after their functions, form has its importance too.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your comparisons are oranges to apples. This is not a HP that I would parade around outside, because it is not a mobile HP. I don't want to repeat myself. I don't care about the looks. You seem to care. Lets leave it at that. 
  
 Its a commercial success and that proves people don't much care for its looks. Personally, I like the geeky, biker like look.
  
 When you say your ears don't like them, can you elaborate your experience? The setup you listened on?


----------



## Hun7er

Hi there,
  
 I bought an JPS Abyss 6 months ago. At the beginning I was not impressed about the sound quality. The confort was better than my expectations, I can wear it for hours even I wear glasses. 
  
 This headphone need clean power although it can sounds rough on the medium and treble.
  
 I use an Balancing Act with stock tube and prefer it to my previous Woo WA5 maxed with EML 300b. The BA are smoother and liquid than the WA5. 
  
 The Abyss is become one of my favorite headphone with the SR007MKI. IMO it outperforms on every aspect the HD800 even on the soundstage. The sound is more on the front of your head and cohesivness. Thought the soundstage is bigger as the HD800, instruments and voices have more physical presence.
  
 Instruments and voices are more palpable, natural and organic. Bass have more slam and can shake your head. Each notes have more weight and relief. It has an ability to carry into the music with his fleshed presentation and grand soundstage.
  
 IMO there is an huge gap between the HD800 and Abyss.
  
 Versus the SR009, Abyss sounds bigger with more slam bass. But I prefer the SR007MKI over the SR009. In fact I like so much the SR007. It is more intimate and thickening each note more than the Abyss. Moreover there is a cohesivness all accross the entire bandwith than I didn't listening on other headphone.


----------



## customcoco

sathyam said:


> Your comparisons are oranges to apples. This is not a HP that I would parade around outside, because it is not a mobile HP. I don't want to repeat myself. I don't care about the looks. You seem to care. Lets leave it at that.
> 
> Its a commercial success and that proves people don't much care for its looks. Personally, I like the geeky, biker like look.
> 
> When you say your ears don't like them, can you elaborate your experience? The setup you listened on?


 

 Ok you don't care about the looks, that's fine ! In fact, you even seem to like the way the abyss looks and that's fine, too.
  
 My comparisons still stand though. I don't use my stuff to "parade", I just feel the need to get some pleasure while looking / touching (at) it.
  
 You're right though, let's agree to disagree.
  
 Thanks for your consideration of my opinion, I appreciate that.
  
 I don't want to start a flamewar, though.
  
 While it may be possible to debate here about the general importance of looks on audio gear and its influence on the way people consider it, e.g. me rejecting the Abyss partly because of its physical appearance, I don't think that my opinion on the Abyss' sound quality would be tolerated on those boards.
  
 I've spent way too much time trying to justify my opinions here, especially on something as superfluous as high-end headphones. 
  
 Our argument was a mistake, even though it might have been worse.
  
 (It doesn't anything to do with _you, _BTW.)


----------



## sathyam

customcoco said:


> Ok you don't care about the looks, that's fine ! In fact, you even seem to like the way the abyss looks and that's fine, too.
> 
> My comparisons still stand though. I don't use my stuff to "parade", I just feel the need to get some pleasure while looking / touching (at) it.
> 
> ...


 
  





 Peace!


----------



## sathyam

hun7er said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I bought an JPS Abyss 6 months ago. At the beginning I was not impressed about the sound quality. The confort was better than my expectations, I can wear it for hours even I wear glasses.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am really looking forward to my loaner .


----------



## customcoco

sathyam said:


> Peace!


 

 Yes indeed !
  
 Thanks for your reaction (such a level of comprehensiveness is rare around here), and have fun with whatever pair of cans actually makes you feel good !


----------



## Kiats

preproman said:


> I sure don't wear any of my headphones outside unless it's my Dr. Dre Beats..




+1


----------



## David1961

I'm not knocking the Abyss for it's SQ because I've never heard one, and some may like it's looks, but I just don't want the headphone gear I have to sound amazing, but I also want it to look good as well.
 I've mentioned before that I never liked the look of the 009's when I first saw them, this was because of their headband, but I did something about that which for me makes my 009's look very nice.
Anyway, I've had my say about the Abyss's looks so I'll leave it at that.


----------



## up late

definitely not cans for portable use. couldn't imagine anyone in their right mind wanting to be walking around in these.

not a fan of the look either but that became kinda irrelevant once i put them on and started listening.


----------



## Kiats

up late said:


> definitely not cans for portable use. couldn't imagine anyone in their right mind wanting to be walking around in these.
> 
> not a fan of the look either but that became kinda irrelevant once i put them on and started listening.




Agreed, Up Late. Properly driven, the Abyss is sublime.


----------



## Fafner

Has anyone tried these with a Ray Samuels B52? I'd think about getting the Abyss, but not if I'd have to switch amp as well....


----------



## mulder01

up late said:


> definitely not cans for portable use. couldn't imagine anyone in their right mind wanting to be walking around in these.
> 
> not a fan of the look either but that became kinda irrelevant once i put them on and started listening.


 
 Yeah, I agree they look slightly ridiculous but after I heard them, man I wanted a pair


----------



## pearljam50000

I'm sure they sound great but i doubt that they are worth 4 times the price of HD800.


----------



## mulder01

pearljam50000 said:


> I'm sure they sound great but i doubt that they are worth 4 times the price of HD800.


 
 I guess it all depends on weather you have that sort of money to spend.  Once you get into the highest of the high end stuff, the whole diminishing law of returns kicks in.  If a $6000 pair of headphones is 25% better than a $1500 pair of headphones but 400% of the price, then does that mean they're not worth buying?  Not necessarily - if you have the money and you want the best then why not.  Someone moving over to head-fi from a speaker setup would probably happily spend $6000 because in terms of high end speakers, that's really quite reasonable.  People that are stretching their budget to get a pair of HD600's might be looking at you wondering why you spend 3 times the price of their cans to get something that's not 3 times better.  I think it's pretty clear Abyss are not catering for the 'most performance per dollar' market.


----------



## IanG

david1961 said:


> A head-fier friend that's tried on the Abyss told me he found them uncomfortable to wear, I'll never find that out because I'm not brave enough to put them on my head.
> 
> He also told me how they sounded, but I'll leave it to him to post his thoughts assuming he'd want to.


 
 Yes I am the guy who tried the Abyss, not at home but at a high end UK dealer who really focusses on the headphone market. 
  
 I use Stax SR009s with a Cavalli amp at home, and the SR009s were there at the dealership too (not with the Cavalli or Woo or BHSE however) along with just about all leading brands.
  
 For a potential price of £4,250 I was unimpressed. The headphones are really ugly, and although I could live with that I would prefer more elegance. I found the fit awkward and the weight noticeable. But my major reservation is that I found the sound did not astound me, which it should for that price. 
  
 Of course this is all qualified by the fact that I was not sitting in my own chair and not using music and source and amplification of my choice. But then that applied to the other phones I tried too. I just felt that it did not stand out from the £500 or £1,000 alternatives I listened to and - for me - it ain't an SR009 and certainly not an SR009 beater, in my view.
  
 Of course, others will favour its attributes and perhaps put them ahead of anything else in the market - which is a good thing for the industry and its diversity.


----------



## up late

pearljam50000 said:


> I'm sure they sound great but i doubt that they are worth 4 times the price of HD800.




no offence but i find these kind of statements meaningless. especially when you're talking about high-end gear where price/performance isn't really a consideration.


----------



## kensonic

I was very keen to hear the AB-1266. I managed it at the Munich High End Show a couple of weeks ago.
It looks ugly, yes. It is heavy, yes. It is ridiculous expensive, yes. I could live with that ...
The SQ impressed me (Malvalve, source unknown) but it was not possible to achieve an appropriate fit and/or seal (within 1 hour and getting advice from the exhibitor). Therefore, I will definitely NOT buy one ! To me, it is a prototype, assembled in a lab (too fast).
... Just my 2 cents.


----------



## pearljam50000

up late said:


> no offence but i find these kind of statements meaningless. especially when you're talking about high-end gear where price/performance isn't really a consideration.




The only reasom i'm saying this is because some people seem to think that the HD800 are on the same level as the Abyss, and not necessarily better.


----------



## up late

well that's a matter of opinion. having heard both i know which can i preferred. but i won't be buying the abyss any time soon.


----------



## Skooter

I head these at the tokyo festival this spring for 15 minutes in a relatively quiet room. $5k Auorasound Japan headphone amp. 

I think the Abyss name and type font are off the mark. The headphones also look silly. And they are heavy. 

But after a minute of adjustments got an excellent fit and the odd design is practical as it makes the weight virtually imperceptible. Very comfortable. 

I like the 009, LCDs, HD800, etc. although they all have some challenges. I honestly felt the Abyss was as close to proper music reproduction as I have experienced from a headphone. The sound is well balanced and while bass goes low it is neither bloated nor exaggerated. Frequencies were very well balanced and I was pleased with the mid and highs also. It was like a very good home system with a well integrated sub. 

The Abyss is expensive but does the best job of reproducing sound that I have heard from a headphone. I also found it enjoyable to listen to. 

Audio reproduction is about comprimises so nothing is perfect. But the Abyss is worth a listen if one is looking for quality reproduction and is willing to meet the asking price.


----------



## Kiats

skooter said:


> I head these at the tokyo festival this spring for 15 minutes in a relatively quiet room. $5k Auorasound Japan headphone amp.
> 
> I think the Abyss name and type font are off the mark. The headphones also look silly. And they are heavy.
> 
> ...




Thanks for your views, Skooter. I agree: it is quite something else. I have one and it is probably something which I will enjoy for a long time to come.


----------



## starstern

fafner said:


> Has anyone tried these with a Ray Samuels B52? I'd think about getting the Abyss, but not if I'd have to switch amp as well....


 
 you found that to be better then cavalli liquid gold ?


----------



## rudi0504

skooter said:


> I head these at the tokyo festival this spring for 15 minutes in a relatively quiet room. $5k Auorasound Japan headphone amp.
> 
> I think the Abyss name and type font are off the mark. The headphones also look silly. And they are heavy.
> 
> ...




I am agree with your impression 
Abyss 1266 SQ like home speakers 
If you have a chance please try abyss with :
Mass Ko Bo.394 
You will love more like me


----------



## superfred21

kensonic said:


> I was very keen to hear the AB-1266. I managed it at the Munich High End Show a couple of weeks ago.
> It looks ugly, yes. It is heavy, yes. It is ridiculous expensive, yes. I could live with that ...
> The SQ impressed me (Malvalve, source unknown) but it was not possible to achieve an appropriate fit and/or seal (within 1 hour and getting advice from the exhibitor). Therefore, I will definitely NOT buy one ! To me, it is a prototype, assembled in a lab (too fast).
> ... Just my 2 cents.


 
 I remember you at the end of High Munich.
 First you have tested the headphones on the Audeze stand.
 Secondly I was not an exponent but an individual who wanted to test the amp Malvalve, people have recognized the headphones and my request one test, I'm surprised you have not noticed that.
 Finally it is not necessair to have a perfect seal with the Abyss.


----------



## customcoco

superfred21 said:


> I remember you at the end of High Munich.
> First you have tested the headphones on the Audeze stand.
> Secondly I was not an exponent but an individual who wanted to test the amp Malvalve, people have recognized the headphones and my request one test, I'm surprised you have not noticed


 
 What does it change anyway ?


----------



## mulder01

iang said:


> For a potential price of £4,250 I was unimpressed.


 
 Is that really the price in the UK?  That equates to US$7270  Or does that include the price of the amp you were listening to?


----------



## superfred21

customcoco said:


> What does it change anyway ?


 
 That is to say ?


----------



## IanG

mulder01 said:


> Is that really the price in the UK?  That equates to US$7270  Or does that include the price of the amp you were listening to?


 
 Well that is the price at two dealers I know of, without any amp.
  
 I guess they are looking to amortise their development cost based on what must be a limited sales potential - so it would not surprise me if $1,000 of the cost covers that. Remember in the UK there will be $1200 in value added tax and I guess there are both distributor and dealer mark ups so they might be around $3000, maybe more, so ex-factory it needs to be priced at $3000.


----------



## Fririce0003

customcoco said:


> What does it change anyway ?




Most noticable change is bass response in my opinion, the lighter the seal the more bass quantity and weight there is, but not as punchy compared to a tighter seal.
It also effects staging slightly, tighter seal, more air around instruments and better imaging. Not too good at explaining the smaller points but there is a very noticeable difference, which is a nice easy tweak that you can do depending on what your listening to. 
Though it's worth mentioning I vary the seal by adjusting the pivot, not swiveling the pads.
Hope that helps.


----------



## alvin sawdust

One dealer in the UK is charging £4524.


----------



## customcoco

superfred21 said:


> That is to say ?


 

 Your post had a somewhat negative ring to it, I just wondered why.
  
 I don't know how those details could have affected Kensonincs' impressions of the cans.
  
 Especially since they were mostly positive, apart from the fit'n'finish issue.


----------



## mulder01

Joe, is there a reason you don't include (or even make?) and adapter for the Abyss to a mini 4 pin XLR for powering these off portable amps?  Is it your opinion that it wouldn't or shouldn't be done?


----------



## Nomax

Hello GUYS!I WAS BUYING ONE! 

REGARDS FROM AUSTRIA CRAZY NOMAX


----------



## kensonic

superfred21 said:


> I remember you at the end of High Munich.
> 
> First you have tested the headphones on the Audeze stand.
> 
> ...



.
.

Wow, you recognized me based on my avatar, right ? 
Now, I need to change it  

In what a small world we live - and what a great hobby we have ! 
I am happy hearing from you ! 

You are one of the French guys I was talking to after hearing the Abyss, right ? 
I really believed that the Abyss belonged to the Malvalve. I was not aware that it was your HP (sorry). 
But now, it is understandable to me that you requested YOUR Abyss back when I was hearing it  
Therefore, I have to thank you even more for giving me (and others) the opportunity to hear this HP ! 

Fit and sealing as well as weight is a personal thing. I have no problems with the LCD2.2 and the HE6. There is no "MUST" having a fit like the HD800. But with the Abyss I would always have the impression / feeling / concern that something is "wrong". The weight balance is ridiculous (to me), fit is bad and sealing is not there. All those points would prevent me from a relaxing listening and enjoyment. 

If the Abyss is not annoying you (in this sense) be happy and enjoy your HP (like others obviously do). 
It is just not my cup of tea. 

Have fun and see you next time ... some where ... in the universe ...


@ customcoco, thank you, I had the same feeling. Therefore I needed to answer


----------



## Nomax

So first impressions from me about BUILDQUALITY isst TOP!BEST!ITs better than 009 and the Sennheiser ORPHEUS!
The MAGNET PADS are Amazing!

MORE impressions from me coming SOON!

Sorry FOR may Bad english 


REGARDS from AUSTRIA
CRAZY NOMAX


----------



## pearljam50000

I'm a fan of crazy Nomax (;


----------



## Nomax

Thanks!i LOVE you GUYS! 

NOMAX


----------



## Kiats

nomax said:


> Hello GUYS!I WAS BUYING ONE!
> 
> REGARDS FROM AUSTRIA CRAZY NOMAX




Great to have you inn board, Nomax! Enjoy!


----------



## Kiats

Oops! Onboard, I mean. ;p


----------



## pearljam50000

One thing is for sure,Abyss is the coolest headphone model name ever ^_^


----------



## Nomax

Thanks!My impressions about the sound are following SOON!but for sure i can say to all its the UGLIEST HEADPHONE on EARTH!ggggggg

REGARDS from AUSTRIA 

NOMAX


----------



## mulder01

I am genuinely looking forward to reading these impressions.  It's gonna be crazy.


----------



## Nomax

mulder01 said:


> I am genuinely looking forward to reading these impressions.  It's gonna be crazy.




Yes thats right because my english is very bad!

REGARDS CRAZY NOMAX


----------



## customcoco

kensonic said:


> If the Abyss is not annoying you (in this sense) be happy and enjoy your HP (like others obviously do).
> It is just not my cup of tea.
> 
> Have fun and see you next time ... some where ... in the universe ...
> ...


 
 Indeed.
  
 Why can't we realize how insignificant, in the grand scheme of things, this hobby of ours is ? What's the point of endlessly arguing about whether or not one should prefer X to Z ?
  
 Anyway,
  
 Cheers and enjoy what you already have (while dreaming of what you don't) !


----------



## Kiats

customcoco said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Why can't we realize how insignificant, in the grand scheme of things, this hobby of ours is ? What's the point of endlessly arguing about whether or not one should prefer X to Z ?
> 
> ...




I can totally agree with the last sentiment!


----------



## wink

Yay, Nomax,      I am awaiting your report with bated breath and eager anticipation.


----------



## superfred21

kensonic said:


> .
> .
> 
> Wow, you recognized me based on my avatar, right ?
> ...


 
 There is no animosity about you, we exchanged a word on the particular made that the headphones belonged to me I was surprised by your post I thought you understood nothing more.
 After you can not stand headphones on head no problem, I do not represent JPS even if I find this wonderful headphones but this is only my point of view
  
 @ customcoco, nous avons un problème toi et moi !


----------



## Nomax

Hello Guys NOMAX is Here!


I have my ABYSS since few days now and i CAN NOT understand the Discussion about the seal and the fit!

I was watching THIS VIDEO from JOE and after 15 Minutes i was having the perfekt FIT And SEAL on my HEAD!
The only THING that i fully AGREE is yes THIS HP are the UGLIEST in the World!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GundN7voH5o

Impressions about the sound from me coming SOON!

REGARDS CRAZY NOMAX


----------



## mulder01

customcoco said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Why can't we realize how insignificant, in the grand scheme of things, this hobby of ours is ? What's the point of endlessly arguing about whether or not one should prefer X to Z ?
> 
> ...


 
 I have been sort-of considering saving for a pair of these headphones and decided to go right back to the beginning of this thread and skim through it and honestly, the first 26 or so pages is mostly people (most of whom had never even heard them) arguing about why the abyss is overpriced and mustn't be worth it because you can get X for $whatever...  It was a bit frustrating.


----------



## Kiats

mulder01 said:


> I have been sort-of considering saving for a pair of these headphones and decided to go right back to the beginning of this thread and skim through it and honestly, the first 26 or so pages is mostly people (most of whom had never even heard them) arguing about why the abyss is overpriced and mustn't be worth it because you can get X for $whatever...  It was a bit frustrating.




Yes, the price is a bit divisive. I was fortunate that a few friends owned the Abyss and we're able to provide no-holds barred views. And there is no substitute for trying it yourself. It will take a few sessions to get comfortable with the fit and its construction. But you have that figured out, you won't look back. I didn't;


----------



## Music Alchemist

nomax said:


> Hello Guys NOMAX is Here!
> 
> 
> I have my ABYSS since few days now and i CAN NOT understand the Discussion about the seal and the fit!
> ...


 

 I enjoyed reading your impressions of the K812 and look forward to detailed comparisons of the Abyss with your other favorite headphones!


----------



## up late

kiats said:


> Yes, the price is a bit divisive. I was fortunate that a few friends owned the Abyss and we're able to provide no-holds barred views. And there is no substitute for trying it yourself. It will take a few sessions to get comfortable with the fit and its construction. But you have that figured out, you won't look back. I didn't;




true but this is summit-fi so talk of price is kinda irrelevant. having said that i know my own price threshold for a pair of cans is well below the asking price for the abyss no matter how good it sounds.


----------



## Kiats

up late said:


> true but this is summit-fi so talk of price is kinda irrelevant. having said that i know my own price threshold for a pair of cans is well below the asking price for the abyss no matter how good it sounds.




Agreed, Up Late. We all have our personal thresholds.


----------



## rudi0504

My Two Best portable set Up to drive Abyss : 

First : 
source : AK 240 
Dac / Amp : Chord Hugo 


Second :
source : AK 240 
Pre amp : Wagnus Tube pre amp 
Amp : Wagnus Epsilon S


SQ : 
Wagnus set Up has better sound quality , more analog , intimate mid more High fidelity sound quality 
Hugo has more Power overall less analog sounding set Up 

IMO


----------



## Nomax

NICE PICS RUDI!!!

REGARDS FROM AUSTRIA (CRAZY)NOMAX


----------



## Music Alchemist

rudi0504 said:


> My Two Best portable set Up to drive Abyss :
> 
> First :
> source : AK 240
> ...


 

 You're the type of alchemist that I strive to be! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's been interesting monitoring all the portable systems you've tried out, consistently achieving ever-greater sound quality...but with something this bulky, I'd rather just go all the way with a full-size setup. What I'd be especially interested in you comparing is the Woo Audio WA234 MONO with the Mass-Kobo Model 394!


----------



## rudi0504

nomax said:


> NICE PICS RUDI!!!
> 
> REGARDS FROM AUSTRIA (CRAZY)NOMAX




Thank you 
Vielen Dank from Indonesia


----------



## rudi0504

music alchemist said:


> You're the type of alchemist that I strive to be! :veryevil: It's been interesting monitoring all the portable systems you've tried out, consistently achieving ever-greater sound quality...but with something this bulky, I'd rather just go all the way with a full-size setup. What I'd be especially interested in you comparing is the Woo Audio WA234 MONO with the Mass-Kobo Model 394!




Thank you For Your input 

My goal is Only to Share My pictures that By today portable Amps has have significant improvement In sound quality and Power that can have very Good near to desktop Amps.

Until now i havent heard Woo Audio 234 , at our dealer Dont have Any demo unit 
I have heard Woo Audio WA 06 , WA 06 SE , WA 22 and WA 05 , all of them to IHMO sound quality are below Mass Ko Bo 394


----------



## Nomax

In few hours i will give and post my immpression about the sound of this HP!

Regards from AUSTRIA (CRAZY)NOMAX


----------



## pearljam50000

Well?


----------



## Nomax

IT'S TIME FOR NOMAX and my IMPRESSIONS about THE SOUND!


----------



## alvin sawdust

Cuckoo


----------



## Nomax

First off all is THIS A NORMAL HEADPHONE ??NOT FOR ME!

THE BIGGEST PLUS Points for me in the soundsignature is THE SOUNDSTAGE!! THE MUSIC plays not in my head it PLAYS IN FRONT of MY HEAD/EARS!I Think many OWNERS know what i mean!WOW!THATS Amazing!

The Bass is very tense,fast and a little bit airy!more than my Favorite TH 900!

To the fit and seal i can say to everyone after 6-7 Minutes of trying i have found my PERSONAL SETTINGS!i was realy surprised how comfortable they are!

All in all is THIS A REAL GAMECHANGER FLAGSHIP??THE BEST SOUNDING HEAPHONE IN THE WORLD SINCE THE SENNHEISER ORPHEUS??YES GUYS THE ABYSS IS A OUTSTANDING WORLDCLASS PRODUCT and in my OPINION THE BEST SOUNDING HEADPHONE BUT AT THE SAME TIME THE UGLIEST LOOKING HP in our GALAXY! 

CRAZY and BEST REGARDS from planet AUSTRIA DARTH VADER(NOMAX)


----------



## Music Alchemist

nomax said:


> First off all is THIS A NORMAL HEADPHONE ??NOT FOR ME!
> 
> THE BIGGEST PLUS Points for me in the soundsignature is THE SOUNDSTAGE!! THE MUSIC plays not in my head it PLAYS IN FRONT of MY HEAD/EARS!I Think many OWNERS know what i mean!WOW!THATS Amazing!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glad to hear it! It's interesting that you say these are the best-sounding headphones, yet the TH-900 is still your favorite.
  
 Would you be able to share more detailed comparisons with the other top models?
  
 Oh, and what equipment (amps, DACs, cables, etc.) did you use? I have a strong feeling that the Abyss has even more capability than many systems can bring out of it.
  
 P.S. I made a Star Wars reference in the last post I made too, haha.


----------



## Nomax

Hello Guys!you know my english is not so good!

I can say I FULLY AGREE the IMPRESSIONS from RUDI!the ABYSS is not a Little Bit better than the audeze LCD3!THIS HEADPHONES Sounds much much more better than the audeze and better than the STAX 009!
NOMAX is a CRAZY headphone Guru FOR A LONGTIME(20 years)in a other AREA with other Language!Austria/Germany!i know many People And engeniers from this CRAZY INDUSTRIE but for me it is very difficult to Write in english!sorry

So TRUST RUDI and his EARS!
He will find the right words about this FANTASTIC BRILLIANT SOUNDING HEADPHONE ABYSS 1266!!

REGARDS NOMAX


----------



## Music Alchemist

nomax said:


> Hello Guys!you know my english is not so good!
> 
> I can say I FULLY AGREE the IMPRESSIONS from RUDI!the ABYSS is not a Little Bit better than the audeze LCD3!THIS HEADPHONES Sounds much much more better than the audeze and better than the STAX 009!
> NOMAX is a CRAZY headphone Guru FOR A LONGTIME(20 years)in a other AREA with other Language!Austria/Germany!i know many People And engeniers from this CRAZY INDUSTRIE but for me it is very difficult to Write in english!sorry
> ...


 
  
 I would be especially interested in learning more about the differences between the AB-1266 and SR-009.


----------



## Nomax

Okay this is easy with my english!the sound or soundstage with ABYSS is much much more Outside of my head or in Front of me and with 009 the sounstage is much much closer to my head or in my head!

NOMAX


----------



## Music Alchemist

nomax said:


> Okay this is easy with my english!the sound or soundstage with ABYSS is much much more Outside of my head or in Front of me and with 009 the sounstage is much much closer to my head or in my head!
> 
> NOMAX


 
  
 That's cool about the soundstage - similar to the HD 800...but what about the rest? I always hear how the Abyss has the best bass, but there are conflicting opinions on the mid and treble frequencies. The general consensus is that the SR-009 has a more smooth and refined sound - one that some consider to be less realistic and balanced.
  
 I am also curious as to the reason the TH-900 remains your favorite.


----------



## pearljam50000

How much better are they than HD800?


----------



## mulder01

music alchemist said:


> That's cool about the soundstage - similar to the HD 800...but what about the rest? I always hear how the Abyss has the best bass, but there are conflicting opinions on the mid and treble frequencies. The general consensus is that the SR-009 has a more smooth and refined sound - one that some consider to be less realistic and balanced.
> 
> I am also curious as to the reason the TH-900 remains your favorite.


 
 I think he meant that the TH-900 was his favourite for bass before hearing these.  English is his second language so maybe don't read everything too carefully.

 I can back up the soundstage comment.  People always go on about soundstage and placement and how much air there is between stuff.  To be honest, I never thought headphones had or could have a good soundstage, but as soon as I put on the Abyss it was the first thing I noticed.  It's really quite something else. 
  
 Like you, from what I understand, most people who have heard both the Abyss and 009, say that the Abyss is the winner in terms of bass and soundstage, and the 009 is the winner in terms of the detail and mids.  Some people find the 009's too bright, some find the Abyss lacking in 'detail' (by comparison).  It comes down to personal preference.  I have found over the years that what some people call "detail" or "clarity", I call "hurts my ears".  I work in construction and maybe a certain part of my hearing has deteriorated and that makes the midrange extra harsh for me personally.  At the end of the day, most people's impressions and descriptions are probably about right, but it depends on your personal taste.


----------



## mulder01

pearljam50000 said:


> How much better are they than HD800?


 
 What unit of measurement do you use for that?  
 Probably about 35 better


----------



## Nomax

But in in Case of BUILDQUALITY AND MATERIALMIX is ONLY ONE WINNER 100% FOR SURE THE AB 1266!





REGARDS NOMAX


----------



## mulder01

If they used those drivers buy styled it more like an Audeze, that would get rid of 50% of the criticisms about this phone (the other 50% being the price tag)


----------



## up late

pearljam50000 said:


> How much better are they than HD800?







mulder01 said:


> What unit of measurement do you use for that?
> 
> Probably about 35 better




about 5k better


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> I think he meant that the TH-900 was his favourite for bass before hearing these.  English is his second language so maybe don't read everything too carefully.
> 
> I can back up the soundstage comment.  People always go on about soundstage and placement and how much air there is between stuff.  To be honest, I never thought headphones had or could have a good soundstage, but as soon as I put on the Abyss it was the first thing I noticed.  It's really quite something else.
> 
> Like you, from what I understand, most people who have heard both the Abyss and 009, say that the Abyss is the winner in terms of bass and soundstage, and the 009 is the winner in terms of the detail and mids.  Some people find the 009's too bright, some find the Abyss lacking in 'detail' (by comparison).  It comes down to personal preference.  I have found over the years that what some people call "detail" or "clarity", I call "hurts my ears".  I work in construction and maybe a certain part of my hearing has deteriorated and that makes the midrange extra harsh for me personally.  At the end of the day, most people's impressions and descriptions are probably about right, but it depends on your personal taste.


 
  
 Hm, maybe. It's just that he said the TH-900 was his overall favorite in the K812 thread as well.
  
 Emphasized treble can be mistaken as detail, but even with my limited experience, I have found that real detail comes through when everything is more controlled and focused, and you notice things you never did before. For example, I recently replaced a headphone cable (brand new vs years old of the same one). The treble used to get rather sibilant with certain material. Now, there is more treble quantity, but higher quality as well. Think smooth, yet solid and soaring. Just today, I heard background vocals I didn't even know were in a song. And what I thought was a lone guitar was actually a guitar and keyboard playing the same melody! (Those are two out of countless examples to illustrate my point of the benefits of a controlled sound with real instead of artificial detail.) With (what I now know to be) the harsher distortion of the old cable, it was so much more difficult to distinguish such things.
  
 Very true about personal taste. I plan on collecting all these headphones some day! I'm sure I would love them all for the things they excel at, though I get the feeling the Abyss would be the closest to the sound I am looking for.


----------



## mulder01

It would be nice to be able to collect them all, but it ends up being a very expensive hobby.  I'd like to have one pair of headphones that I absolutely love rather than 3 pairs that I like quite a bit.  I can understand if people are working off other's impressions trying to decide what to add to their collection next, but if you were just trying to find one endgame solution to suit you - potentially spending up to 5 figures on a setup, if you couldn't have a listen to them anywhere near you, I'd probably get on a plane and go to somewhere where you can listen to them.  I mean, if you spend that sort of money, then realise you've made the wrong decision and sell, you've just lost more than what you would have spent to go and audition them in the first place.  ...IMO


----------



## pearljam50000

mulder01 said:


> What unit of measurement do you use for that?
> 
> Probably about 35 better







up late said:


> about 5k better



I doubt it.


----------



## arnaud

mulder01 said:


> I work in construction and maybe a certain part of my hearing has deteriorated and that makes the midrange extra harsh for me personally.


 
  
 I'd certainly recommend a hearing check at audiologist because if this was the unfortunate result of overexposure to sudden peak noise levels (which I expect to happen on construction sites) else long exposures to relatively loud noise (which I also expect to happen on construction sites), further exposure to such loud environment without hearing protection could make the problem even worse with time.
  
 For instance, let's assume you suffered from hyperacousis: you would then have lost some of your ears "elasticity" and be unable to adjust to louder sounds. Effectively, your threshold of pain would have decreased such that what used to be bearable has become painful to hear.
  
 The problem with hyperacousis is that I believe it can get worse with subsequent overexposure until finally hearing loss catches up (once you're deaf at these frequencies, having them loud doesn't matter to you anymore).
  
 People typically believe the main result of overexposure to noise is decrease in sensitivity of hearing, but this case it quite the opposite. Not the opposite really but result is (any headphone with healthy does of midrange / upper midrange would sound grating above mild level).
  
 I am not sure if audiologist can easily detect the amount of hyperacousis but at least an audiogram would reveal something fishy. 
  
 Now, not to freak out: an SR009 can easily sound brittle when fed with inappropriate source or material OR listened at higher SPL levels, which is why not all like this headphone.


----------



## up late

pearljam50000 said:


> I doubt it.




well you asked the question


----------



## pearljam50000

up late said:


> well you asked the question



lol, ok.
I just wanted not to be too sad because i will never be able to afford the Abyss, so i was hoping they were not that much better.


----------



## up late

it wasn't a serious answer man. but you prolly shouldn't 'hang here coz it's only gonna break your heart.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> It would be nice to be able to collect them all, but it ends up being a very expensive hobby.  I'd like to have one pair of headphones that I absolutely love rather than 3 pairs that I like quite a bit.  I can understand if people are working off other's impressions trying to decide what to add to their collection next, but if you were just trying to find one endgame solution to suit you - potentially spending up to 5 figures on a setup, if you couldn't have a listen to them anywhere near you, I'd probably get on a plane and go to somewhere where you can listen to them.  I mean, if you spend that sort of money, then realise you've made the wrong decision and sell, you've just lost more than what you would have spent to go and audition them in the first place.  ...IMO


 
  
 Take a look at my wish list and you'll see that low price and good value are the last thing I'm concerned about. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Once I'm able to easily afford them, I would rather give away the ones I don't want anymore to either friends or strangers who impress me. (Some things are worth more than money.) This scenario is less likely due to the fact that each audio component I desire is based on researching its ability to provide either a superior or unique experience.
  
 Anyway, I totally get what you're saying. Love is stronger than like. It's gonna be awesome to give everything my personal ranking in reviews after I chalk up enough expertise!


----------



## Nomax

So in my opinion i think the ABYSS AB 1266 has the BIGGEST CHANCE to be A LEGEND since the ORPHEUS and AKG'S K1000 because this headphones are very very UNIQUE!!!

REGARDS nomax


----------



## mulder01

arnaud said:


> I'd certainly recommend a hearing check at audiologist because if this was the unfortunate result of overexposure to sudden peak noise levels (which I expect to happen on construction sites) else long exposures to relatively loud noise (which I also expect to happen on construction sites), further exposure to such loud environment without hearing protection could make the problem even worse with time.
> 
> For instance, let's assume you suffered from hyperacousis: you would then have lost some of your ears "elasticity" and be unable to adjust to louder sounds. Effectively, your threshold of pain would have decreased such that what used to be bearable has become painful to hear.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah loud tools that never used to annoy me, annoy me a lot now.  I always wear earplugs more often than most people would while I am at work and when I go to concerts.  Not much you can really do about hearing damage (besides prevention) so I've never seen anyone about it.  
  
 However, the point I was trying to make was that everyone hears things differently so even if 90% of people love the sound of something, doesn't necessarily mean you will love it too.  Years ago I was more into home stereo gear and did plenty of research and had pretty much made up my mind on a pair of speakers that were about $6500 I think.  I found a place locally that had them for audition and went in to have a listen, even though I felt that I had read enough about them, and I knew they were going to be the best and I would love them (because everyone else rated them so highly).  In their listening room they had 2 other pairs of speakers to audition them against, and to my surprise, I didn't really like them at all, and preferred another pair that I'd never heard of, that were $2000 cheaper.  I also got the demo model, which was another $1000 cheaper again.  So if I went by other's listening experiences, I would have spent almost double and ended up with something that I liked half as much.


----------



## Music Alchemist

In case some of you weren't aware, the complete official name is actually Abyss Headphones AB-1266. Joe Skubinski himself told me this.
  
 Everything else about this headphone is unconventional, so it isn't _too_ out of place for them to decide to put the word "headphones" in the name of a headphone model, lol...
  
 It can't help but be a little awkward, though. Imagine if Lexus called themselves Lexus Cars. It would come off as silly and destroy some of the appeal of the luxury brand.
  
 In this case, however, it helps them stand apart and may even increase their exclusivity, for better or for worse. (Just look at that seductive blue box with the logo!)
  
 Most people just call them the Abyss anyway. If new models are released under the Abyss Headphones brand, it will cause further confusion due to this fact.


----------



## mulder01

I guess they will just call it the Abyss Headphone AB-1566 or something.  

 You're right though, it is a bit odd.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> I guess they will just call it the Abyss Headphone AB-1566 or something.
> 
> You're right though, it is a bit odd.


 
  
 Maybe if they keep the driver size:
  


joe skubinski said:


> The AB part is short for Abyss, and 12 is the year 2012 when we finally arrived at the driver design. We continued to optimize it until we felt it was the absolute best we could achieve. 66 is the active driver diameter in mm.


 
  
 ...but I hope it's something more creative next time around. (What I mean is that the naming idea _is_ creative, but repeating it wouldn't be.)


----------



## mulder01

Has Joe given any indication that there will be another model out in the foreseeable future?  I mean it took 5 years before they were happy with this one, so you have to wonder - have they kept trying to improve on their design after it was released or have they taken a step back for a while too see if it's viable to continue down the same path.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> Has Joe given any indication that there will be another model out in the foreseeable future?  I mean it took 5 years before they were happy with this one, so you have to wonder - have they kept trying to improve on their design after it was released or have they taken a step back for a while too see if it's viable to continue down the same path.


 
  
 Yes. Future models are a "work in progress." I couldn't squeeze anything else out of him.
  
 He is surprisingly pleasurable to talk to on the phone and has a great sense of humor and breadth of knowledge. JPS Labs has been around since 1990!
  
 I heard rumors (possibly in this thread, I don't recall) that the next model will have a similar sound signature but be significantly less costly.
  
 As for the release date, I'm not holding my breath. I'm almost certain it won't be nearly as good in terms of build and sound quality. May still get both though!


----------



## mulder01

Sounds just as good but costs a lot less?  Sounds too good to be true.  I hope it is though.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> Sounds just as good but costs a lot less?  Sounds too good to be true.  I hope it is though.


 
  
 No, just similar sound signature. I may have seen an official statement somewhere about the current model being the flagship, with anything that comes after it being of less quality, but still quite good. That's a given though, taking into account the circumstances. If they can improve upon the AB-1266, it will be a nice bonus.
  
 I am more interested in seeing impressions of the Stefan AudioArt Endorphin cable for the Abyss. I know of a few members here who own it and others, but they haven't posted much (or at all) on the subject. Guess I'll get in touch.


----------



## mulder01

Is that not cheaper than the stock cable?


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> Is that not cheaper than the stock cable?


 
  
 The stock cable is included at no extra charge. (Its stated value is rendered moot since it was specially designed for the AB-1266, cannot be purchased alone, and is thus part of the package.)
  
 This cable is $599-1,399. If what I've heard from James Serdechny is true, it's a worthy improvement. It helps that he is a former Sennheiser engineer.
  
 I believe that comparing cables based solely on price is useless, at any rate. Sound is the only factor when you're not willing to compromise. If a $10 cable sounds better than a $50,000 cable, great! But it's highly improbable.
  
 None of this addresses what goes into the design of the cables either. One could cost more in resources and labor to assemble, but end up not sounding as good. Others could be produced cheaply and unfairly marked up. There are too many variables at play to make assumptions, and "better sound" is subjective enough as it is.
  
 Without going into specifics, here is a collection of reassuring (if not a little redundant) quotes sourced from the website and private emails regarding the sound quality of the cable in question:
  
 "will transmit the audio signal from the source to the headphone with impact, definition and realism and remain unmatched by any other headphone cable manufacturer in the world"
  
 "very noticeable rich and pure musicality that can’t be described"
  
 "purer more natural presentation"
  
 "pure, open, full body signature"
  
 "far beyond what the stock cable or any other aftermarket headphone cable will provide"
  
 "perform at the highest level possible"
  
 "increases the richness, clarity and definition across the audio spectrum"
  
 "the soundstage presentation opens-up to expose the listener to music which becomes truly engaging and captivating"
  
 "will deliver the music in a more natural/organic fashion, display greater transparency and reveal subtle inner detail"
  
 "very noticeable increase in purity, transparency and definition in the bass, mid-range and treble"
  
 "The Hardwired version of our Endorphin Headphone Cable will do all of the above but on a higher level and all the extra "artifacts" you did not know you were hearing in the music are gone (due to the elimination of all four headphone connectors). In the reproduction process this is huge as the music is now just more like live music."
  
 Now that would be hardcore. Hardwiring a cable to the Abyss! (That option is currently unavailable, but I am getting some custom connectors and adapters made sooner or later.)


----------



## mulder01

You'd think a company that primarily manufactures high end cables would be able to provide a pretty effing excellent cable.  When I auditioned them, I'm pretty sure I was told that the replacement cost of the stock cable was $1300 (AU)


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> You'd think a company that primarily manufactures high end cables would be able to provide a pretty effing excellent cable.  When I auditioned them, I'm pretty sure I was told that the replacement cost of the stock cable was $1300 (AU)


 
  
 I'm sure it's a good cable. (All the glowing reviews I've seen for the Abyss involved the stock cable, as far as I know.) I will reserve further commentary until I've heard both.
  
 Did you share your impressions anywhere, by the way? It's interesting how many conflicting opinions there are, aside from those who consider them the best ever.


----------



## seeteeyou

.


----------



## Music Alchemist

seeteeyou said:


> I'm also curious to learn more about differences among flagship cables:
> 
> Double Helix Cables Silver Spore
> Entreq Atlantis
> ...


 
  
 Check out the wish list thread in my sig. There are a ton of those, although most aren't headphone cables. I am nowhere near finished adding everything. (I still need to research some of the ones you listed.)
  
 Once I get any of them, I will share all my thoughts, especially regarding comparisons!


----------



## Music Alchemist

I just created this image to use as a wallpaper for inspiration.
  

  
 It's the Woo Audio WA234 MONO - the amplifier I want to hear with the Abyss more than any other!
  
 No one (not even Jack Wu) seems to have any photos of these two together with the platinum finish of the amp (only black).
  
 And another:


----------



## mulder01

I didn't post my impressions because at the time, I wasn't really taking the experience too seriously...
 At the moment I have a pair of Ultrasone Edition 8's running on a portable setup and went in and listened to the Audeze lineup.  I live a 3 hour flight away from Australia's 'main' headphone store (A2A) and I just so happened to be in Melbourne so I went in and had a listen to the LCDs to see what all the fuss was about and was it worth upgrading from a $1500 pair of headphones to a $2300 pair.  The guy asked me if I'd heard the Abyss and I was like no, I heard about the price of them and assumed that you would need to pair them with some ****-hot desktop gear otherwise you were wasting your time (because I heard this was the case with the SR-009).  I thought well since I'm here I may as well have a quick listen.  They had them running off a cavalli audio liquid gold and some DAC that was about $8k or something - so like a $20k+ setup which I could never imagine ever actually spending that much on a headphone setup regardless of how good they were... So I had a bit of a listen to some songs I wasn't overly familiar with off their laptop and it sounded amazing, as I expected, but I was there to look at spending up to maybe $3k in total, one day, and this was so far out of my budget it was ridiculous.  I had a bit of a listen for maybe up to half an hour because they told me to take my time but meanwhile I had already made up my mind about them because of the price tag.  
 As I was about to leave I was having a chat to one of the guys, asking about the cost of what I just listened to, then he mentioned that they also sound pretty damn nice off some schiit audio gear that was about $2k for the dac and amp, which seemed a bit closer to the realm of possibility.  Then I got on here and started asking about portable setups for the abyss (expecting everyone to tell me I was wasting my time).  Then rudi told me his fav. portable setup was running off an original algorhythm solo and an alo audio mk3+b.  I already have an original algorhythm solo, and was actually listening to, and loving the sound of the LCDs off the alo audio mk3+b (major coincidence - seems almost meant-to-be).  Then I thought, well, if I only need to buy an $800 amp in addition to what I already have, and could get a decent amount off the retail price of the Abyss, I could be looking at $6k total for a relatively respectable abyss setup.  That's still double what I thought I'd be spending, but then I think if I get the LCD's, will I just be wishing I'd waited and saved more to get the abyss... That's the reason I'm on this thread now and actually considering it,  I guess also later on down the track I could look at upgrading the amp and source if I got upgraditis in a couple of years.
 What I did notice though, was they sound like they're way more 'outside of your head' than anything else I've heard and the detail is unreal.  I didn't believe the guy when he told me that the music I was listening to was just ripped off normal cds.  I also feel like if I play around with this hobby long enough, I'll end up buying a couple of other cheaper flagship cans and have spent the $6k anyway.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> I didn't post my impressions because at the time, I wasn't really taking the experience too seriously...
> At the moment I have a pair of Ultrasone Edition 8's running on a portable setup and went in and listened to the Audeze lineup.  I live a 3 hour flight away from Australia's 'main' headphone store (A2A) and I just so happened to be in Melbourne so I went in and had a listen to the LCDs to see what all the fuss was about and was it worth upgrading from a $1500 pair of headphones to a $2300 pair.  The guy asked me if I'd heard the Abyss and I was like no, I heard about the price of them and assumed that you would need to pair them with some ****-hot desktop gear otherwise you were wasting your time (because I heard this was the case with the SR-009).  I thought well since I'm here I may as well have a quick listen.  They had them running off a cavalli audio liquid gold and some DAC that was about $8k or something - so like a $20k+ setup which I could never imagine ever actually spending that much on a headphone setup regardless of how good they were... So I had a bit of a listen to some songs I wasn't overly familiar with off their laptop and it sounded amazing, as I expected, but I was there to look at spending up to maybe $3k in total, one day, and this was so far out of my budget it was ridiculous.  I had a bit of a listen for maybe up to half an hour because they told me to take my time but meanwhile I had already made up my mind about them because of the price tag.
> As I was about to leave I was having a chat to one of the guys, asking about the cost of what I just listened to, then he mentioned that they also sound pretty damn nice off some schiit audio gear that was about $2k for the dac and amp, which seemed a bit closer to the realm of possibility.  Then I got on here and started asking about portable setups for the abyss (expecting everyone to tell me I was wasting my time).  Then rudi told me his fav. portable setup was running off an original algorhythm solo and an alo audio mk3+b.  I already have an original algorhythm solo, and was actually listening to, and loving the sound of the LCDs off the alo audio mk3+b (major coincidence - seems almost meant-to-be).  Then I thought, well, if I only need to buy an $800 amp in addition to what I already have, and could get a decent amount off the retail price of the Abyss, I could be looking at $6k total for a relatively respectable abyss setup.  That's still double what I thought I'd be spending, but then I think if I get the LCD's, will I just be wishing I'd waited and saved more to get the abyss... That's the reason I'm on this thread now and actually considering it,  I guess also later on down the track I could look at upgrading the amp and source if I got upgraditis in a couple of years.
> What I did notice though, was they sound like they're way more 'outside of your head' than anything else I've heard and the detail is unreal.  I didn't believe the guy when he told me that the music I was listening to was just ripped off normal cds.  I also feel like if I play around with this hobby long enough, I'll end up buying a couple of other cheaper flagship cans and have spent the $6k anyway.


 
  
 Thanks for your impressions. You didn't really compare with others you've heard, though.
  
 The Edition 8 seems to be one of the better Ultrasones. I wish there were more reviews published for the Edition 5.
  
 Have you heard the Sennheiser HD 800? It also has an "out of your head" soundstage.
  
 Rudi has probably experimented with portable Abyss setups more than anyone else...but Joe also mentioned on the phone that without a very powerful full-size amp, you won't begin to tap into its real capabilities. I often hear how the HiFiMAN HE-6 is at its best with a speaker amp, but I haven't seen much talk at all about pairing the Abyss with one.
  
 Look at the pics I just posted. If you don't already know what that amp costs, then you don't want to know! (I know you know, lol)
  
 I feel the same way about buying multiple headphones. Here's a thought: once you can easily afford the Abyss, then you can afford all other production flagships too.


----------



## mulder01

Yeah I'm really relatively new to the headphone world and don't really have much of an idea what a lot of people are talking about in their reviews anyway - when it comes down to really detailed descriptions of certain parts of the frequency range it doesn't mean much to me.  Understanding that sort of stuff needs a lot of experience with a lot of different equipment.  I mean, I also don't rely too much on other's descriptions because it's such a personal thing too.  I kind of imagine it's like if you were buying visual art - like paintings - but you couldn't see the paintings for yourself, but rather had to rely on other people's descriptions of the feelings they invoke and the mood and mindset of the artist and make a purchase based on that.  If I like the bass on something, I can't tell you how much slam or weight or whatever, I just know I like it or I don't... Sorry.  All I can say about the abyss is they're really really good.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I wouldn't say I could 'easily afford' the abyss.  It's just if I want it badly enough, I will save money aside for them slowly over the period of a year or two and eventually get them.  In regard to getting other flagships,  I can't see myself caring too much about a new pair of $2000 headphones if I have the abyss...  that's just me though - I have a $1500 pair of headphones and don't really do much research into whats kicking goals in the $500 range because I don't see the point spending money on a lesser phone when I could put it toward better gear.  If you have a bucketload of money then great, build yourself a collection if that's what you want to do, but I'd be happy with just one great pair.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> Yeah I'm really relatively new to the headphone world and don't really have much of an idea what a lot of people are talking about in their reviews anyway - when it comes down to really detailed descriptions of certain parts of the frequency range it doesn't mean much to me.  Understanding that sort of stuff needs a lot of experience with a lot of different equipment.  I mean, I also don't rely too much on other's descriptions because it's such a personal thing too.  I kind of imagine it's like if you were buying visual art - like paintings - but you couldn't see the paintings for yourself, but rather had to rely on other people's descriptions of the feelings they invoke and the mood and mindset of the artist and make a purchase based on that.  If I like the bass on something, I can't tell you how much slam or weight or whatever, I just know I like it or I don't... Sorry.  All I can say about the abyss is they're really really good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well spoken. Allow me to simplify: do you like the Abyss more (in every way) than the Ultrasone and Audeze models you've heard?


----------



## mulder01

Yeah absolutely - I liked the Audeze LCD-X a fair bit better than my Edition 8's, and the Abyss a fair bit better than the LCD-X.  It's really hard for me to quantify the amount of difference between the LCD-X and Abyss because I managed to do a side by side comparison simultaneously with the Ed 8's and LCD-X on the same gear, with the same music, but when I heard the Abyss, it was a bit later on in the day, with way more expensive gear and listening to music I wasn't intimately familiar with.  Ideally I'd like to compare the LCD-X and Abyss (and probably the Hi Fi Man's and TH900's too) with the same tracks and the same amps to really be able to identify the differences between JUST the cans.  For all I know, all the magic I was hearing could have been because of the Liquid Gold.  At the end of the day I'm comparing a $4k setup to a $20k setup, so of course the Abyss was magic.  Maybe I would prefer the LCD-X on the Liquid Gold rather than the Abyss on the ALO Mk3+b (similarly priced setups - but cheap amp and expensive phone vs expensive amp and cheap phone - obviously expensive amp AND phone would be nice but I'm kidding myself if I wait to be able to afford that).  I guess I'd have to have a serious audition before I can really give a reliable and accurate impression on them.  If the Abyss only shines on expensive amps then it may not be for me, but my theory was if the sound pretty awesome on a top of the range schiit audio amp at about $1000, then I figure if you take off the cost of the power supply section of the amp, are you left with an amplifier section worth roughly $800?  and the ALO portable amp I heard was about $800 and runs off a battery - thus eliminating the need power supply section, so a bit of basic maths tells me that it's possible, but again, you have to hear it in the flesh to really know.  At the moment I'm going to hold onto the hope (a lot of this hope comes from rudi's experiences) that the Abyss can be 90+% of their full potential on a cheap amp, while I save until I get the itch to fly down and have a proper critical listen...


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> Yeah absolutely - I liked the Audeze LCD-X a fair bit better than my Edition 8's, and the Abyss a fair bit better than the LCD-X.  It's really hard for me to quantify the amount of difference between the LCD-X and Abyss because I managed to do a side by side comparison simultaneously with the Ed 8's and LCD-X on the same gear, with the same music, but when I heard the Abyss, it was a bit later on in the day, with way more expensive gear and listening to music I wasn't intimately familiar with.  Ideally I'd like to compare the LCD-X and Abyss (and probably the Hi Fi Man's and TH900's too) with the same tracks and the same amps to really be able to identify the differences between JUST the cans.  For all I know, all the magic I was hearing could have been because of the Liquid Gold.  Maybe I would prefer the LCD-X on the Liquid Gold rather than the Abyss on the ALO Mk3+b (similarly priced setups - but cheap amp and expensive phone vs expensive amp and cheap phone - obviously expensive amp AND phone would be nice but I'm kidding myself if I wait to be able to afford that).  I guess I'd have to have a serious audition before I can really give a reliable and accurate impression on them.  If the Abyss only shines on expensive amps then it may not be for me, but my theory was if the sound pretty awesome on a top of the range schiit audio amp at about $1000, then I figure if you take off the cost of the power supply section of the amp, are you left with an amplifier section worth roughly $800?  and the ALO portable amp I heard was about $800 and runs off a battery - thus eliminating the need power supply section, so a bit of basic maths tells me that it's possible, but again, you have to hear it in the flesh to really know.  At the moment I'm going to hold onto the hope (a lot of this hope comes from rudi's experiences) that the Abyss can be 90+% of their full potential on a cheap amp, while I save until I get the itch to fly down and have a proper critical listen...


 
  
 Another factor to bear in mind (which you alluded to) is the fact that each headphone may excel with different setups. So a setup that one sounds great on might make another sound not so good, whereas if you tried another combination, you may like the other better.
  
 There are plenty of portable setups that sound great with the Abyss. Even if they squeeze out less than 50% of their potential, it's a nice perk - but I would never take such expensive headphones out in public!


----------



## mulder01

Yeah of course I wouldn't use them in public - I just like the idea of being able to move around the house with them - I can sit on the computer or out on the balcony or lay in bed or on the couch or whatever.  I don't have a listening room or dedicated spot where I listen to music.
  
 You're right - there are really a lot of factors to consider in terms of why you're hearing what you're hearing.  
  
 Personally, though, I believe most of the difference (provided you use a suitable amp pairing) is due to the headphones rather than anything else.  I think I can safely assume if I had a $2k dac, a $2k amp, and a $2k pair of phones and upgraded just the DAC to a $6k DAC, I might hear a little bit of difference.  If I upgraded just the amp to a $6k amp, I would hear quite a good improvement.  If I upgraded just the headphones to a $6k pair of headphones I would hear a huge improvement.  Obviously it's nice to have ALL great gear, but personally, I believe the biggest amount of difference can be attributed to the cans on the end.  That's why I'm mostly considering a really expensive headphone over a really expensive dac or amp.  But that's just me.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> Yeah of course I wouldn't use them in public - I just like the idea of being able to move around the house with them - I can sit on the computer or out on the balcony or lay in bed or on the couch or whatever.  I don't have a listening room or dedicated spot where I listen to music.
> 
> You're right - there are really a lot of factors to consider in terms of why you're hearing what you're hearing.
> 
> Personally, though, I believe most of the difference (provided you use a suitable amp pairing) is due to the headphones rather than anything else.  I think I can safely assume if I had a $2k dac, a $2k amp, and a $2k pair of phones and upgraded just the DAC to a $6k DAC, I might hear a little bit of difference.  If I upgraded just the amp to a $6k amp, I would hear quite a good improvement.  If I upgraded just the headphones to a $6k pair of headphones I would hear a huge improvement.  Obviously it's nice to have ALL great gear, but personally, I believe the biggest amount of difference can be attributed to the cans on the end.  That's why I'm mostly considering a really expensive headphone over a really expensive dac or amp.  But that's just me.


 
  
 Yeah, I prefer moving around (usually pacing back and forth as long as no one's watching) while listening to music.
  
 If your other gear (gear is my favorite audio-related word!) is good enough for the headphones, you've got nothing to worry about - and it's only up from there.


----------



## mulder01

Since there are a lot of rave reviews about the Abyss / Liquid Gold pairing, I would really like to hear them on Cavalli Audio's new portable amp (If they ever release the damn thing)


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> Since there are a lot of rave reviews about the Abyss / Liquid Gold pairing, I would really like to hear them on Cavalli Audio's new portable amp (If they ever release the damn thing)


 

 Alex told me (yes, I'm in contact with all these people, lol) this about the portable amp: "Soooo slow, but coming. Don't know when the contest will be though." (The winner of the naming contest will receive one for free. Don't bother entering. I have the perfect name and plan to win!)
  
 Here are a few links reviewing the Abyss/234 combo:
 http://www.cnet.com/news/woo-234-mono-a-very-different-kind-of-amplifier/
 http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2013/10/13/rmaf-2013-woo-audio-goes-insane/
  
 And two posts here from members who liked the Abyss _only_ through that amp:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/666765/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-appreciation-and-impressions-thread/810#post_9999021
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/713309/best-listening-experience-you-ever-had#post_10493829


----------



## mulder01

I also have the perfect plan to win that Cavalli Amp - come up with a better name than you 
  
 Umm yeah I'll have to make sure I never hear that WOO + Abyss setup.  Otherwise I'll just be depressed because I could never have it 
  
 I like the unboxing video the guy in that RMAF article did...
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lny-Qcb_2FI


----------



## Cortazar

Hi guys.
  
 Just wanted to share my last experiances with Abyss. I had a LiAu for a few weeks. Heard my abyss throw esoteric p70 and auralic vega. I found it good, but not a combination for me to stop beeing guest here .
 At this moment i hear my abyss directly from totaldac d1 dual via xlr output (totaldac has excellent volume regulation) and i must say it is overall as good as my stax sr009 with woo audio (psvane el34) with totaldac as a source. Acoustic instruments sound very naturally, great scene, no grain in highs at all, naturall bass with much texture, not a pamp. Beethoven String quartets sounded better only with mbl system. I could hear the wood, and the strings from cello. For me one of the best HP system i heard.
 Maybye totaldac and LiAU and the abyss would sound better i do not know.
 On this weekend i  will receive a d1 streamer and i am very curious how much better it could be.
  
 Pawel


----------



## Music Alchemist

cortazar said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> Just wanted to share my last experiances with Abyss. I had a LiAu for a few weeks. Heard my abyss throw esoteric p70 and auralic vega. I found it good, but not a combination for me to stop beeing guest here .
> At this moment i hear my abyss directly from totaldac d1 dual via xlr output (totaldac has excellent volume regulation) and i must say it is overall as good as my stax sr009 with woo audio (psvane el34) with totaldac as a source. Acoustic instruments sound very naturally, great scene, no grain in highs at all, naturall bass with much texture, not a pamp. Beethoven String quartets sounded better only with mbl system. I could hear the wood, and the strings from cello. For me one of the best HP system i heard.
> ...


 
  
 I am especially interested in talking to more people who own both the SR-009 and Abyss, so I'm glad to hear from you.
  
 Can you go into any more detail about the differences you hear between them?


----------



## Cortazar

I hear abyss with totaldac just for 3 days now, so i need some time and head to head comparison (wchich i will do) to write much more.
 Till now i was not really pleased with abyss. With LiAu i found them lacking detail and highs-class compared to stax. What i lacked in Stax was to relly see and feel instruments, ''the body or meat'' (i hear only jazz and classic, and mostly acoustic instruments). With abyss and cavalli and vega as a source i found it a little bit boring. The magic i know from stax was not there.
 I seriously considered selling the abyss, but now i know it is about the implementation. And abyss has a great potential. I really hope with totaldac and EC 445 combo (for which i wait) it would be my holy grail.
 If i should choose i would choose both .
  
  
 Pawel


----------



## Music Alchemist

cortazar said:


> I hear abyss with totaldac just for 3 days now, so i need some time and head to head comparison (wchich i will do) to write much more.
> Till now i was not really pleased with abyss. With LiAu i found them lacking detail and highs-class compared to stax. What i lacked in Stax was to relly see and feel instruments, ''the body or meat'' (i hear only jazz and classic, and mostly acoustic instruments). With abyss and cavalli and vega as a source i found it a little bit boring. The magic i know from stax was not there.
> I seriously considered selling the abyss, but now i know it is about the implementation. And abyss has a great potential. I really hope with totaldac and EC 445 combo (for which i wait) it would be my holy grail.
> If i should choose i would choose both .
> ...


 
  
 What amp are you using? Correct me if I'm mistaken; I thought the totaldac d1-dual was just a DAC, not an amp.


----------



## Cortazar

That is correct. Totaldac ist a dac with  volume regulation (preamp) and you can use it with headphones directly vial its xlr output!
 That means no amp at all.


----------



## Music Alchemist

cortazar said:


> That is correct. Totaldac ist a dac with  volume regulation (preamp) and you can use it with headphones directly vial its xlr output!
> That means no amp at all.


 
  
 Wow, that's surprising. A DAC with a built-in preamp can sound better than a dedicated amp. But it does cost over $13,000, so it's nice to have that feature. It must be really powerful to drive the Abyss so well. For all intents and purposes, it seems to be a DAC + amp that can be used with most headphones.
  
 Once you are able to connect the totaldac to amps with the Abyss, come back here and let us know how it measures up.
  
 Is your Woo amp the WES?


----------



## Cortazar

Yes i have woo audio wes for my sr 009. Once again, i do not know how a LiAu cavalli would sound with abyss and totaldac as a source, maybe much better then totaldac and abyss without an amp. I will be able to compare a combination with and without EC 445 in about 2 months when my amp arrives. I will certainly let you know.
 Totaldac is really an exceptional source! And it costs without d1 server, and as i use it at the moment only with my macbook and amarra plus) 9000 Euro, not 14000.
 For me it outperformed dcs puccini too. (but i did not compare it directly)


----------



## Music Alchemist

cortazar said:


> Yes i have woo audio wes for my sr 009. Once again, i do not know how a LiAu cavalli would sound with abyss and totaldac as a source, maybe much better then totaldac and abyss without an amp. I will be able to compare a combination with and without EC 445 in about 2 months when my amp arrives. I will certainly let you know.
> Totaldac is really an exceptional source! And it costs without d1 server, and as i use it at the moment only with my macbook and amarra plus) 9000 Euro, not 14000.
> For me it outperformed dcs puccini too. (but i did not compare it directly)


 
  
 So we'll have to wait months to find out more? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Wish you had more amps on hand...
  
 My mistake. It's 9,100 EUR, which is about 12,312 USD. (I neglected to exclude VAT.)
  
 Speaking of dCS, many people consider the Vivaldi Digital Playback System to be the best-sounding source they've ever heard. I _highly_ doubt it would beat that.


----------



## Cortazar

In the nex weeks i will be hearing abyss throw hifiman adapter and sunaudio 300B SE (i had it repaired as it didnot survived the postage). I know from Piotr Ryka (see hifiphilosophy.com) that orthoplanar sound very good with 300B SET. We will see.
 So you will not have to wait for  months 
 Well i did not hear vivaldi stack but i am still impresed how much a good source can do (totaldac). I have had some good sources in my systems ( linn ikemi, accuphase 75v, krell 280cd, dcs puccini auralic vega) and it was always a small step ahead, but totaldac was more a jump than a step.
 The combo stax sr009 - woo audio wes is a very good one, but it lets me still looking for improvement (ebay, audiogon etc. it costs my time, money and nerves) With abyss throw totaldac i had the 1 time for a long time a feeling i am near at my goal. I really hope that a combination totaldac + d1 server + EC 445 will let me forget that it always can be better and that i can just enjoy the music und visit this forum once a week or so and not every few hours 
 From what i heard yet without an amp i believe it is possible.


----------



## djd1122

visceriouszero said:


> First day of the 2013 Manila Hi-Fi Show just ended. I brought the Abyss to the local head-fiers.
> 
> I call this piece, "Faces of the Abyss"


 

 Can you tell me what name brand amp, dac, interconnects, and power cords are used here with the Abyss?


----------



## alvin sawdust

djd1122 said:


> Can you tell me what name brand amp, dac, interconnects, and power cords are used here with the Abyss?


 
 Looks like the amp is the Alo Studio 6. Can't help with the rest.


----------



## Crashem

cortazar said:


> In the nex weeks i will be hearing abyss throw hifiman adapter and sunaudio 300B SE (i had it repaired as it didnot survived the postage). I know from Piotr Ryka (see hifiphilosophy.com) that orthoplanar sound very good with 300B SET. We will see.
> So you will not have to wait for  months
> Well i did not hear vivaldi stack but i am still impresed how much a good source can do (totaldac). I have had some good sources in my systems ( linn ikemi, accuphase 75v, krell 280cd, dcs puccini auralic vega) and it was always a small step ahead, but totaldac was more a jump than a step.
> The combo stax sr009 - woo audio wes is a very good one, but it lets me still looking for improvement (ebay, audiogon etc. it costs my time, money and nerves) With abyss throw totaldac i had the 1 time for a long time a feeling i am near at my goal. I really hope that a combination totaldac + d1 server + EC 445 will let me forget that it always can be better and that i can just enjoy the music und visit this forum once a week or so and not every few hours
> From what i heard yet without an amp i believe it is possible.




Your sr009 could use an amp upgrade as well


----------



## m2man

I heard the Abyss this weekend at the Seattle Head-Fi meet. They were just amazing on my EC 2A3x4. The bass was better than the LCD-3. The sound stage is crazy. Much better than the HD-800 IMHO. I was listening to a 20 year old EDM track, which is normally muddy and pretty boring truthfully. It was just awesome on the Abyss. The mids are just so clear is kind of triply. I didn't listen near long enough. The combo got lots of wow's and holy ****s....from long time head-fiers. It takes a ton of power, I had the volume up near 1 o'clock. The HE-6 was only at 10 o'clock. I'll be getting an Abyss pronto.


----------



## Kiats

m2man said:


> I heard the Abyss this weekend at the Seattle Head-Fi meet. They were just amazing on my EC 2A3x4. The bass was better than the LCD-3. The sound stage is crazy. Much better than the HD-800 IMHO. I was listening to a 20 year old EDM track, which is normally muddy and pretty boring truthfully. It was just awesome on the Abyss. The mids are just so clear is kind of triply. I didn't listen near long enough. The combo got lots of wow's and holy ****s....from long time head-fiers. It takes a ton of power, I had the volume up near 1 o'clock. The HE-6 was only at 10 o'clock. I'll be getting an Abyss pronto.




Heheh! Good for you! The Abyss is a pretty wonderful piece of gear once you can get past the price. What is outstanding about it is that it manages to breathe life into recordings that are not stellar. I listen to music all the way from 5th century church music to the latest indie music. And it performs all comers with ease. 

All I can say is: Enjoy!


----------



## Music Alchemist

m2man said:


> I heard the Abyss this weekend at the Seattle Head-Fi meet. They were just amazing on my EC 2A3x4. The bass was better than the LCD-3. The sound stage is crazy. Much better than the HD-800 IMHO. I was listening to a 20 year old EDM track, which is normally muddy and pretty boring truthfully. It was just awesome on the Abyss. The mids are just so clear is kind of triply. I didn't listen near long enough. The combo got lots of wow's and holy ****s....from long time head-fiers. It takes a ton of power, I had the volume up near 1 o'clock. The HE-6 was only at 10 o'clock. I'll be getting an Abyss pronto.


 
  


kiats said:


> Heheh! Good for you! The Abyss is a pretty wonderful piece of gear once you can get past the price. What is outstanding about it is that it manages to breathe life into recordings that are not stellar. I listen to music all the way from 5th century church music to the latest indie music. And it performs all comers with ease.
> 
> All I can say is: Enjoy!


 
  
 Can't wait to join the club!


----------



## Kiats

music alchemist said:


> Can't wait to join the club!




And we look forward to welcoming you!


----------



## Music Alchemist

kiats said:


> And we look forward to welcoming you!


 
  
 hehe, I talk about the Abyss all the time to people on this site and receive a lot of criticism related to it in just about every category. What I mean is that I try to defend it, based on the countless reviews and impressions I've read (only 5-10% of them being negative), but get so many questions and complaints for which I'm not knowledgeable enough to fully address.
  
 I kind of want to record a comprehensive interview with Joe to alleviate many of the concerns of the public.
  
 Since you own all those flagships, have you published any detailed comparisons between them and the Abyss?


----------



## pearljam50000

A not so good review:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones


----------



## Music Alchemist

pearljam50000 said:


> A not so good review:
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones


 
  
 Everyone's already seen that. It was published over a year ago.
  
 Tyll supposedly had a flawed review unit as well, and was later surprised how much better other ones he heard sounded.


----------



## pearljam50000

OK, good to know.


----------



## Kiats

music alchemist said:


> hehe, I talk about the Abyss all the time to people on this site and receive a lot of criticism related to it in just about every category. What I mean is that I try to defend it, based on the countless reviews and impressions I've read (only 5-10% of them being negative), but get so many questions and complaints for which I'm not knowledgeable enough to fully address.
> 
> I kind of want to record a comprehensive interview with Joe to alleviate many of the concerns of the public.
> 
> Since you own all those flagships, have you published any detailed comparisons between them and the Abyss?




I haven't actually gotten around to doing any detailed comparisons by way of reviews. I've only done reviews for custom iems. But who knows?


----------



## Kiats

I recall a previous discussion on possible tube amplifiers for the Abyss. Of course, that was still early days. How has the experience been since more sets of Abyss would have burnt in by now? Would love to hear how the pairings are going in respect of tube amps. 

Your views would be much appreciated.


----------



## Music Alchemist

kiats said:


> I haven't actually gotten around to doing any detailed comparisons by way of reviews. I've only done reviews for custom iems. But who knows?


 
  
 Well, feel free to post any comparisons here. I'm sure many (including myself) would appreciate it.
  


kiats said:


> I recall a previous discussion on possible tube amplifiers for the Abyss. Of course, that was still early days. How has the experience been since more sets of Abyss would have burnt in by now? Would love to hear how the pairings are going in respect of tube amps.
> 
> Your views would be much appreciated.


 
  
 I have a text file full of positive Abyss reviews from all over the Internet, organized chronologically, with quotes pertaining only to sound quality. I will share it here eventually.
  
 It seems the Woo Audio WA234 MONO is the best-sounding tube amp for the Abyss. If I ever get both, I'll share my impressions as well.


----------



## up late

m2man said:


> I heard the Abyss this weekend at the Seattle Head-Fi meet. They were just amazing on my EC 2A3x4. The bass was better than the LCD-3. The sound stage is crazy. Much better than the HD-800 IMHO...




the abyss had spacious soundstage but it didn't outdo the hd800 in that department imo. nothing i've heard has.


----------



## Music Alchemist

up late said:


> the abyss had spacious soundstage but it didn't outdo the hd800 in that department imo. nothing i've heard has.


 
  
 Yeah, the HD 800 remains the soundstage king. Unfortunately, many consider it to be unrealistically wide, which only works well with classical, apparently.
  
 I think when people claim a headphone outclasses the HD 800's soundstage, they may be referring to other aspects like height, depth, a sense of three-dimensionality...or perhaps some see a not-as-wide soundstage as being more realistic and thus superior.


----------



## up late

do those same folks think that speakers have an unrealistic soundstage?


----------



## Music Alchemist

up late said:


> do those same folks think that speakers have an unrealistic soundstage?


 
  
 Couldn't tell ya. Speakers have more going on to make it sound natural, though.
  
 All I know is that I once bought a $50 headphone that sounded so tinny and distant I couldn't listen at all, so I returned them. I'm assuming the HD 800's soundstage wouldn't be anything like that.


----------



## up late

i don't buy into the unrealistic soundstage malarkey. thought it sounded pretty impressive for a can. it worked well with jazz and acoustic music too imo.


----------



## Music Alchemist

up late said:


> i don't buy into the unrealistic soundstage malarkey. thought it sounded pretty impressive for a can. it worked well with jazz and acoustic music too imo.


 
  
 I'm sure it's great. If I got one other headphone with the Abyss, it would be the HD 800. Some people think its soundstage is no larger than any other headphone, most are at least impressed by it, while others think it's too large and distant. It could be a system synergy issue or all in their head - I don't claim to know.


----------



## up late

only been talking soundstage. personally i like the abyss sound more than the hd800 overall fwiw.


----------



## Music Alchemist

up late said:


> only been talking soundstage. personally i like the abyss sound more than the hd800 overall fwiw.


 
  
 Most do. ^_^


----------



## Kiats

I think that the HD800 has impressive width in terms of soundstage. Works fantastically with acoustic vocals, jazz and classical music. Not so great with rock and pop. 

The Abyss has more depth in its soundstage and therefore has more layers. Of course, it's soundstage is not as wide as the HD800.

Which one prefers really depends on what one's perception of what music should sound like and perhaps the genre one is listening to. 

Just my views.


----------



## Music Alchemist

kiats said:


> I think that the HD800 has impressive width in terms of soundstage. Works fantastically with acoustic vocals, jazz and classical music. Not so great with rock and pop.
> 
> The Abyss has more depth in its soundstage and therefore has more layers. Of course, it's soundstage is not as wide as the HD800.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The depth part was exactly my point. People often don't specify which aspects of the soundstage they are referring to.


----------



## Kiats

music alchemist said:


> The depth part was exactly my point. People often don't specify which aspects of the soundstage they are referring to.




Indeed...


----------



## Music Alchemist

kiats said:


> Indeed...


 
  
 I would like to see someone write an article comparing soundstage width/depth/height, imaging, and separation, as they are all related. I consider separation to be the same thing as imaging (or at least an aspect of it), since if you have a sense of where the instruments are, you also have a sense of the distance between them.


----------



## Eide

Today I finally got to listen to the Abyss. (I listen to them in a quiet room at Oslo Hifi Center.) The setup was Auralic Taurus MKII amp and a Aurelic Vega Dac. My transport was Astell & Kern AK120 via optical output. 

I have a pair of Fostex TH900 and a Chord Hugo, so I wantet to check out other headphones for my Hupo. Particular headphones with a larger soundstage as I listen to a lot of jazz and classical music. I first tried every Audeze can, Hifiman, Oppo and Sennheiser before I tried the Abyss. It was really interesting to hear almost every big flagship headphone in one sitting. I'm not going to compare them all now, but I can say my TH900 hold their ground pretty good... until I heard the Abyss AB-1266. 

It was quite a revelation. In my opinion every other flagship headphone are playing more or less in the same league, just with different flavours. Abyss is certainly in a different league.

I played a variety of jazz trios, big Mahler symphonies, string quartets and some Pink Floyd. The first thing that struck me was that I soon forgot that I was wearing enourmous headphones. The music came from way beyond my head. And with such clarity that I felt that the musicians was in the same room. It was like a live, acoustic music experience. I would characterize them as the first "bright" headphone I'v truly enjoyed. They was also surpicingly comfortable to wear. The Abyss are not as bass heavy as my TH900. So for Pink Floyds The Wall I actually prefered the sound of my TH900, but for jazz and classical Abyss was pure magic. I think that the extreme detailed highs made them feel a bit on the bright side. But for me that is just perfect. If I'm going to buy another headphone Abyss and TH900 is so different that it's great to own both. 

I tried Abyss directly from my Chord Hugo as well. Hugo was able to play them loud enough, but they sounded loose and much worse than from the Auralic Taurus. So I definatley have to buy a good amp for them as well. 

Abyss is on top of my wish list now. Only problem is that they cost 8.800 $ in Norway. I was told that the price was negotiable, but it's certainly a big chunk of my sadly average income. 

Eide


----------



## Music Alchemist

eide said:


> Today I finally got to listen to the Abyss. (I listen to them in a quiet room at Oslo Hifi Center.) The setup was Auralic Taurus MKII amp and a Aurelic Vega Dac. My transport was Astell & Kern AK120 via optical output.
> 
> I have a pair of Fostex TH900 and a Chord Hugo, so I wantet to check out other headphones for my Hupo. Particular headphones with a larger soundstage as I listen to a lot of jazz and classical music. I first tried every Audeze can, Hifiman, Oppo and Sennheiser before I tried the Abyss. It was really interesting to hear almost every big flagship headphone in one sitting. I'm not going to compare them all now, but I can say my TH900 hold their ground pretty good... until I heard the Abyss AB-1266.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Love your review! Are you able to import it from a dealer in the USA?


----------



## Eide

music alchemist said:


> Love your review! Are you able to import it from a dealer in the USA?




Maybe. I told my Norwegian dealer about the huge difference in pricing. And they told me I could maybe get American price + norwegian tax and transportation cost. That would make it cost around 7000$... In Norway we automatically get 5 years warranty. That and higher taxing makes everything more expensive.


----------



## Music Alchemist

eide said:


> Maybe. I told my Norwegian dealer about the huge difference in pricing. And they told me I could maybe get American price + norwegian tax and transportation cost. That would make it cost around 7000$... In Norway we automatically get 5 years warranty. That and higher taxing makes everything more expensive.


 
  
 Do you automatically get a five year warranty on everything you buy, or are there conditions to be met?
  
 Are you required to pay the Norwegian tax on products imported from other countries?
  
 If you decide to import it, you can order online from US dealers like Woo Audio and The Cable Company.


----------



## Eide

Yes. Norwegian tax is required when buying anything valued more than 35$. And laws that protects the consumers states that every thing you buy that is expected to last at least 5 years has a 5 year warranty against production failure. (Even mobile phones...)

I'm strongly considering to buy the Abyss from an US dealer, but the norwegian guaranties are also nice to have...


----------



## Music Alchemist

eide said:


> Yes. Norwegian tax is required when buying anything valued more than 35$. And laws that protects the consumers states that every thing you buy that is expected to last at least 5 years has a 5 year warranty against production failure. (Even mobile phones...)
> 
> I'm strongly considering to buy the Abyss from an US dealer, but the norwegian guaranties are also nice to have...


 
  
 So let me get this straight...
  
 If you purchase from the Norwegian dealer, you can potentially get the Abyss for around $7,000 along with the benefit of the five year guarantee.
  
 If you purchase from an American dealer, you can get it for the normal retail price, but still have to pay the Norwegian tax on everything you purchase, don't get the five year guarantee, and on top of that, you may have to pay more for shipping, customs, etc.
  
 Is that right? If so, there doesn't seem to be any benefit to you in importing it yourself.


----------



## Nomax

HI GUYS!NOMAX IS HERE!after 3 weeks with my ABYSS i can say it again THE 1266 is the FOR ME the best sounding HP in the World!

And all the Posts about Problems with FIT&SEAL i can not understand that!i think THE REAL OWNERS of THE ABYSS are knowing what i mean!

Its very easy to Bend OUT or Bend IN the headband FOR THE 100%PERFEKT SEAL&FIT&PRESSURE!!

At This Point i would say THANK YOU to JOE&HIS SON FOR THIS MASTERPIECE!

REGARDS NOMAX


----------



## Music Alchemist

nomax said:


> HI GUYS!NOMAX IS HERE!after 3 weeks with my ABYSS i can say it again THE 1266 is the FOR ME the best sounding HP in the World!
> 
> And all the Posts about Problems with FIT&SEAL i can not understand that!i think THE REAL OWNERS of THE ABYSS are knowing what i mean!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nomax is back! =D
  
 Since I plan on getting the Abyss before the year ends, it's reassuring to consistently see such enthusiastic impressions.


----------



## pearljam50000

All hail NOMAX ^_^


----------



## Kiats

nomax said:


> HI GUYS!NOMAX IS HERE!after 3 weeks with my ABYSS i can say it again THE 1266 is the FOR ME the best sounding HP in the World!
> 
> And all the Posts about Problems with FIT&SEAL i can not understand that!i think THE REAL OWNERS of THE ABYSS are knowing what i mean!
> 
> ...




Totally agreed, Nomax!


----------



## mulder01

haha happily scrolling along reading about the Abyss and Norway then all of a sudden
  
 HI GUYS!NOMAX IS HERE!

 ...I just imagine him bursting into a room waving his arms around yelling at everyone in broken English about how great the Abyss is.  So crazy.
  

 Music Alchemist, I take it from all your detailed questions that you'll be making the purchase without auditioning.  What amp do you plan on getting?


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> haha happily scrolling along reading about the Abyss and Norway then all of a sudden
> 
> HI GUYS!NOMAX IS HERE!
> 
> ...


 
  

  





  
 Although I've already made up my mind, I do have auditions planned, and I do want to get a ton of other headphones eventually.
  
 Nomax is apparently a "trade name for a fabric that is used in race drivers' apparel."


----------



## Kiats

music alchemist said:


> :veryevil:
> 
> Although I've already made up my mind, I do have auditions planned, and I do want to get a ton of other headphones eventually.
> 
> Nomax is apparently a "trade name for a fabric that is used in race drivers' apparel."




Good on you Music Alchemist! mulder01 raises pertinent point: the Abyss is a power hungry can that needs plenty of power to excel. So, don't forget that part of the formula.


----------



## Music Alchemist

kiats said:


> Good on you Music Alchemist! mulder01 raises pertinent point: the Abyss is a power hungry can that needs plenty of power to excel. So, don't forget that part of the formula.


 
  
 As you can see, I haven't neglected that consideration. (In case you didn't see my earlier post of it, I made that wallpaper myself.)
  
 Know what's funny? Because of me, there were various discussions in the anime thread about the Abyss, and Joe popped in to explain a few things.


----------



## mulder01

Really?  That is quite a combo... Wish I had $20k to spend... 
  


kiats said:


> mulder01 raises pertinent point: the Abyss is a power hungry can that needs plenty of power to excel. So, don't forget that part of the formula.


 
  
 Actually, honestly, if I ever get the Abyss I'll be using a cheap(er) portable amp at first... eventually looking to upgrade down the track.  I could build an extension on my house for the price of these with the woo monoblocks...


----------



## Kiats

music alchemist said:


> As you can see, I haven't neglected that consideration. (In case you didn't see my earlier post of it, I made that wallpaper myself.)
> 
> Know what's funny? Because of me, there were various discussions in the anime thread about the Abyss, and Joe popped in to explain a few things.




Heheh! Yes, i did see the Woo Audio mono block. Hmm... Try a few SS amps as well.


----------



## Kiats

mulder01 said:


> Really?  That is quite a combo... Wish I had $20k to spend...
> 
> 
> Actually, honestly, if I ever get the Abyss I'll be using a cheap(er) portable amp at first... eventually looking to upgrade down the track.  I could build an extension on my house for the price of these with the woo monoblocks...




You don't need that much. Just get a good solid state amp. Desktop amps are more bang for the buck that a portable amp anyway.  the woo audio monoblock is an example, from which we shouldn't generalize.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> Really?  That is quite a combo... Wish I had $20k to spend...
> 
> Actually, honestly, if I ever get the Abyss I'll be using a cheap(er) portable amp at first... eventually looking to upgrade down the track.  I could build an extension on my house for the price of these with the woo monoblocks...


 
  
 I have plenty of work to do before I'll be able to afford it! The upgrade tubes are an extra $1,200, and then you have to add in the DAC, cables, etc.
  
 I'll use portable setups with it too - but that won't begin to bring the best out of it. Rudi should be able to offer advice on that end.
  


kiats said:


> Heheh! Yes, i did see the Woo Audio mono block. Hmm... Try a few SS amps as well.


 
  
 The first solid state amp I plan on getting is the HeadAmp GS-X mk2. I've heard so many great things about it!


----------



## mulder01

kiats said:


> You don't need that much. Just get a good solid state amp. Desktop amps are more bang for the buck that a portable amp anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah I guess you're probably right about the desktop amps being more bang for your buck.  I would probably be using an ALO Audio Rx Mk3 portable, and for just a little bit more you can get a Schiit Mjolnir, which could probably be a better option.  I have heard the Mjolnir is a good place to start if you can't afford a high end amp straight up.


----------



## Kiats

mulder01 said:


> Yeah I guess you're probably right about the desktop amps being more bang for your buck.  I would probably be using an ALO Audio Rx Mk3 portable, and for just a little bit more you can get a Schiit Mjolnir, which could probably be a better option.  I have heard the Mjolnir is a good place to start if you can't afford a high end amp straight up.




So I hear too.


----------



## Phil95

Hello *SCOLAI*W
  
 In your outstanding AB 1266 review, you state that "an end-game SR-009 setup is still (in my opinion) easily better than an end-game Abyss/HD 800 setup". But I can't find a mention of the amp used to power the SR -009: standard Stax amps (SRM-727, SRM-007tII...) of the famous -and far more expensive- Headamp BHSE (~6000 posts in Head-fi at this time)
  
 Sorry for my delayed reaction to your review!


----------



## Music Alchemist

phil95 said:


> Hello *SCOLAI*W
> 
> In your outstanding AB 1266 review, you state that "an end-game SR-009 setup is still (in my opinion) easily better than an end-game Abyss/HD 800 setup". But I can't find a mention of the amp used to power the SR -009: standard Stax amps (SRM-727, SRM-007tII...) of the famous -and far more expensive- Headamp BHSE (~6000 posts in Head-fi at this time)
> 
> Sorry for my delayed reaction to your review!


 
  
 "End-game SR-009 setup" implies one of the TOTL amps, so there ya go. It's all about personal preference, though. I've read a ton of reviews for both models, and out of those who have owned both, the preference is split down the middle. I'm getting the Abyss first because it's more versatile: it's a better all-rounder for different genres, has much better bass and impact, can be used with portable setups and more types of amplifiers, etc. It seems to me that the more refined sound signature of the SR-009/SR-007 complements the Abyss.


----------



## mulder01

Always gets me why the AB-1266 and SR-009 get compared to the HD800.  Shouldn't the Abyss and Stax be WAY better?  Why would you buy a $6k headphone when you could get a $1500 headphone which is apparently comparable.  I can't comment because I haven't heard the HD800 but it's now definitely on my list to audition when I get the chance given the league they are apparently in. Or is it just because they're a popular can and a convenient reference point?  Surely they're not in the same league... Are they?


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> Always gets me why the AB-1266 and SR-009 get compared to the HD800.  Shouldn't the Abyss and Stax be WAY better?  Why would you buy a $6k headphone when you could get a $1500 headphone which is apparently comparable.  I can't comment because I haven't heard the HD800 but it's now definitely on my list to audition when I get the chance given the league they are apparently in. Or is it just because they're a popular can and a convenient reference point?  Surely they're not in the same league... Are they?


 
  
 Each of those three models excel at different things. It's just that the more expensive two are generally perceived as sounding better overall. If I got just one headphone along with the AB-1266, it would be the HD 800, due to its comfort, excellent detail retrieval, availability of cable/mod upgrades, and many other factors. From all I have heard, it's one of the best-value flagship headphones available. The entire purpose of collecting headphones is to have a variety of sound signatures at your beck and call. No headphone is superior to all others in every way.


----------



## Eide

mulder01 said:


> Always gets me why the AB-1266 and SR-009 get compared to the HD800.  Shouldn't the Abyss and Stax be WAY better?  Why would you buy a $6k headphone when you could get a $1500 headphone which is apparently comparable.  I can't comment because I haven't heard the HD800 but it's now definitely on my list to audition when I get the chance given the league they are apparently in. Or is it just because they're a popular can and a convenient reference point?  Surely they're not in the same league... Are they?


 
 And I can´t figure out how people who actually listens to and enjoy music like HD800  
 I´v listened to HD800 in many different setups and I have really tried to like them because I´v heard so much good about them.
 But they are cold and analytcal to my ears. Not very musical. AB-1266 on the other hand, is VERY musical.


----------



## Music Alchemist

eide said:


> And I can´t figure out how people who actually listens to and enjoy music like HD800
> I´v listened to HD800 in many different setups and I have really tried to like them because I´v heard so much good about them.
> But they are cold and analytcal to my ears. Not very musical. AB-1266 on the other hand, is VERY musical.


 
  
 The most important thing to know about the HD 800 is how different it sounds from different amps. Yes, it's very analytical, but paired with something like a HeadAmp GS-X mk2, it really sings, from what I've heard.
  
 By the way, once I get the Abyss, I'm getting this cable too. It's supposed to make it sound even better!


----------



## pearljam50000

mulder01 said:


> Always gets me why the AB-1266 and SR-009 get compared to the HD800.  Shouldn't the Abyss and Stax be WAY better?  Why would you buy a $6k headphone when you could get a $1500 headphone which is apparently comparable.  I can't comment because I haven't heard the HD800 but it's now definitely on my list to audition when I get the chance given the league they are apparently in. Or is it just because they're a popular can and a convenient reference point?  Surely they're not in the same league... Are they?




I hope they are in the same leauge because i can only afford the HD800 lol


----------



## Music Alchemist

pearljam50000 said:


> I hope they are in the same leauge because i can only afford the HD800 lol


 
  
 Some people consider them to be in the same league; others insist it's a night and day difference, calling the HD 800 a children's toy and the like. To be safe, I'm taking the middle ground: they're both great headphones that do different things.
  
 I hope it's okay for me to paste one quote from a review that compared them.
  


> These futuristic looking German masterpieces are widely regarded as THE BEST dynamic headphones in the world. The HD800 has all the attributes of a top-of-the-line product. They are hands down the most comfortable headphones that I have ever used. The HD800's frequency response is as flat as it can get. Some have complained that it is too bright and causes fatigue after a short period of listening, although I never had that problem.
> The difference in the bass response between the HD800 and the AB-1266 was huge. Switching from the Abyss to the HD800, I had the sense that someone had muted the bass. I knew this couldn't have been true because I had enjoyed listening to the HD800 for months and never had an issue with its bass response before. However, relative to the AB-1266, the bass was practically non-existent on the HD800.
> 
> The HD800 is very revealing and neutral. Whilst these are cherished qualities for studio monitors, they do not make the music listening experience too enjoyable. This was most obvious when I compared it to the Abyss. The HD800 sounded harsh, metallic and overly bright by comparison. The vocals also seemed more grainy and too forward. I was astounded by this revelation.
> ...


----------



## scolaiw

phil95 said:


> Hello *SCOLAIW*
> 
> In your outstanding AB 1266 review, you state that "an end-game SR-009 setup is still (in my opinion) easily better than an end-game Abyss/HD 800 setup". But I can't find a mention of the amp used to power the SR -009: standard Stax amps (SRM-727, SRM-007tII...) of the famous -and far more expensive- Headamp BHSE (~6000 posts in Head-fi at this time)
> 
> Sorry for my delayed reaction to your review!


 

 Hi Phil,

 To clarify, the TOTL amps that I have used with the SR-009 are the BHSE and WOO WES primarily. I did try either the SRM-727 or SRM-007tll when I was in Japan (I don't remember which) but it was not in an ideal listening environment and it wasn't for nearly enough time. 

 Quote: 





mulder01 said:


> Always gets me why the AB-1266 and SR-009 get compared to the HD800.  Shouldn't the Abyss and Stax be WAY better?  Why would you buy a $6k headphone when you could get a $1500 headphone which is apparently comparable.  I can't comment because I haven't heard the HD800 but it's now definitely on my list to audition when I get the chance given the league they are apparently in. Or is it just because they're a popular can and a convenient reference point?  Surely they're not in the same league... Are they?


 


pearljam50000 said:


> I hope they are in the same leauge because i can only afford the HD800 lol


 

 Yeah, this is an odd one to answer. Many people tend to assume that a $6000 pair of headphones must be better than a $1500 pair of headphones, but I don't think that's necessarily the case. It's more that the HD800 offers much better value for money. Just like a pair of Grado SR60s at $100 might sound just as good (not really) or better (definitely) than say a $400 pair of Beats.   

 The problem as many people have mentioned is that the HD800 is so revealing that it really needs to pair with a nice sounding amping and often people are put off when they audition the HD800 due to poor amp choice. That is not to say that the HD800 is a better pair of headphones than the aforementioned SR-009 and Abyss, but I would definitely say it's in the same league.
  


music alchemist said:


> I hope it's okay for me to paste one quote from a review that compared them.
> 
> "The difference in the bass response between the HD800 and the AB-1266 was huge. Switching from the Abyss to the HD800, I had the sense that someone had muted the bass. I knew this couldn't have been true because I had enjoyed listening to the HD800 for months and never had an issue with its bass response before. However, relative to the AB-1266, the bass was practically non-existent on the HD800."


 

 I feel I must say something here. One of the very oft quoted pros of the Abyss is its amazing bass. Much like the LCD 2/3/Xs people often say that the bass is "better". I totally agree; however, it should be noted that the HD800 is NOT lacking bass at all. In fact, it is my honest opinion that the HD800 offers the most accurate presentation of bass and delivers the correct amount of bass. It offers bass exactly as it is on the recording. The reason the Abyss has better bass is partly because there is MORE bass (which to most ears is a good thing and I do enjoy more bass) and furthermore, the bass presentation is more more dynamic and fluid.

_So the real question is can you truly have too much of a good thing?_


----------



## Music Alchemist

scolaiw said:


> The problem as many people have mentioned is that the HD800 is so revealing that it really needs to pair with a nice sounding amping and often people are put off when they audition the HD800 due to poor amp choice. That is not to say that the HD800 is a better pair of headphones than the aforementioned SR-009 and Abyss, but I would definitely say it's in the same league.
> 
> I feel I must say something here. One of the very oft quoted pros of the Abyss is its amazing bass. Much like the LCD 2/3/Xs people often say that the bass is "better". I totally agree; however, it should be noted that the HD800 is NOT lacking bass at all. In fact, it is my honest opinion that the HD800 offers the most accurate presentation of bass and delivers the correct amount of bass. It offers bass exactly as it is on the recording. The reason the Abyss has better bass is partly because there is MORE bass (which to most ears is a good thing and I do enjoy more bass) and furthermore, the bass presentation is more more dynamic and fluid.
> 
> _So the real question is can you truly have too much of a good thing?_


 
  
 Hiya! I always liked your avatar. Did you make it yourself? 
  
 Neutrality and accuracy are the primary reasons I would get the HD 800 even if I had the Abyss. I've seen plenty of positive impressions about the HD 800's bass, with certain setups.


----------



## scolaiw

music alchemist said:


> Hiya! I always liked your avatar. Did you make it yourself?
> 
> Neutrality and accuracy are the primary reasons I would get the HD 800 even if I had the Abyss. I've seen plenty of positive impressions about the HD 800's bass, with certain setups.


 

 Haha, and I do like yours also! Although I have to admit the actual character I borrowed from an image someone posted on head-fi once and then I photoshopped in the background because the original was too bland. 



 And indeed, the HD 800's bass is actually truly amazing with the right setups and so to answer my own question, I do believe that you can sometimes have too much of a good thing. This is why I ultimately settled down with with the HD 800 because I don't believe there is another headphone as neutral or accurate overall as the HD 800.

 Comparing headphones is like comparing tvs or monitors. Some offer larger screens, some offer higher resolution and some offer both. Some might have a low refresh rate whilst some might offer lightning fast 200Hz refresh rates. Some might boast the most accurate colours whilst others might offer even more vibrant colours than real life! The only exception is the HD 800. The HD 800 is not like any tv at all. It is instead a window.

 An impossibly clear window to all your music.


----------



## Music Alchemist

scolaiw said:


> Haha, and I do like yours also! Although I have to admit the actual character I borrowed from an image someone posted on head-fi once and then I photoshopped in the background because the original was too bland.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  






 It's Tenma from School Rumble.
  
 Nice write-up! What are the best-sounding amps you've heard the HD 800 with so far? I've heard especially impressive things about pairing it with the HeadAmp GS-X mk2 and, on the crazier end of the spectrum, the Woo Audio WA234 MONO.
  
 Once I get the HD 800, I actually want to get two of them - one standard issue, the other with this and this, to compare how different they sound.


----------



## scolaiw

music alchemist said:


> It's Tenma from School Rumble.
> 
> Nice write-up! What are the best-sounding amps you've heard the HD 800 with so far? I've heard especially impressive things about pairing it with the HeadAmp GS-X mk2 and, on the crazier end of the spectrum, the Woo Audio WA234 MONO.
> 
> Once I get the HD 800, I actually want to get two of them - one standard issue, the other with this and this, to compare how different they sound.


 

 Hahahaha, you're definitely dreaming very big! Do let me know if you do hear a difference!

 Anyway in terms of best sounding amps for the HD 800.... I've yet to hear the WA234 (although I think it's quite ridiculous if used purely for headphones) so I won't even go there. I've found all my favoured amps with the HD 800 to have been tube amps. The WA22 for example was a nice accessible pairing. Having said that, my favourite pairing ever was the Manley Neo:Classic 300B preamp/headphone amp. Lush, romantic, beautiful + Grieg piano concerto. If only I had the money to purchase it when I listened to them, I would have.


----------



## Music Alchemist

scolaiw said:


> Hahahaha, you're definitely dreaming very big! Do let me know if you do hear a difference!
> 
> Anyway in terms of best sounding amps for the HD 800.... I've yet to hear the WA234 (although I think it's quite ridiculous if used purely for headphones) so I won't even go there. I've found all my favoured amps with the HD 800 to have been tube amps. The WA22 for example was a nice accessible pairing. Having said that, my favourite pairing ever was the Manley Neo:Classic 300B preamp/headphone amp. Lush, romantic, beautiful + Grieg piano concerto. If only I had the money to purchase it when I listened to them, I would have.


 
  
 Yeah, high-end amps are all kind of overkill, but if it ends up sounding significantly better than others, it could still be worth it for me.
  
 How have I never heard of the last amp you mentioned?! Seems very nice, judging from their website.
  
 Any comments on so many people not liking the HD 800 due to it sounding cold, analytical, metallic, harsh, etc. to them? It seems a common solution is to use a tube amp instead of a solid state one, but the Sennheiser HDVD 800 is also said to sound good with them, so I don't know all the factors that account for all the varying impressions.


----------



## scolaiw

music alchemist said:


> Yeah, high-end amps are all kind of overkill, but if it ends up sounding significantly better than others, it could still be worth it for me.
> 
> How have I never heard of the last amp you mentioned?! Seems very nice, judging from their website.
> 
> Any comments on so many people not liking the HD 800 due to it sounding cold, analytical, metallic, harsh, etc. to them? It seems a common solution is to use a tube amp instead of a solid state one, but the Sennheiser HDVD 800 is also said to sound good with them, so I don't know all the factors that account for all the varying impressions.


 
  
 Yeah, I hadn't heard of it either before when I first listened to it. But I won't forget it anytime soon that's for sure.

 And I don't think it's necessarily a solution. It just seems like the HD 800 sounds better with more tube amps. I am sure there are plenty of SS amps that sound great and many tube amps that sound horrendous with the HD 800. Also bear in mind the HDVD 800 was tuned by Sennheiser engineers primarily to amp the HD 800 so of course it should sound good paired together.
 Anyway, given this is the Abyss appreciation thread, feel free to continue this conversation with me via pm or in the HD 800 thread.


----------



## mulder01

Hmm, even though I've only heard the Abyss and not the HD800, I get the feeling that I would probably have a similar impression to the person who wrote the review posted by Music Alchemist.  I have noticed over time that hyper-detailed sound isn't necessarily something that I enjoy listening to, nor can I listen to for long periods without fatigue.  I also really like the sound of the Abyss and Audeze's.  Would I be correct in saying you really need to power the Sennheiser's through a tube amp or warmer signature solid state to round them off a bit?
  
 One other thing re: the Abyss vs Stax, is that everyone always seems to complain about the massive price tag of the Abyss, but fail to note that the Stax will really only shine off a $5-$6k+ amp, and not only that, you're buying a $5-$6k+ electrostatic amp, which is primarily only ever going to be used for one pair of cans and one pair only.  Where as the Abyss is still worth owning with a cheaper amp (obviously it's even better off a $5-$6k+ amp also, but it's not a must).  And then you have the added advantage of owning a "normal" headphone amp which you can potentially use to drive all your other dynamic and planar flagship cans (if you have them), without having to buy additional gear. 
  
 Also, on the topic of detail retrieval, (which I thought was excellent on the Abyss anyway, but haven't been able to compare it to the HD800 or 009).  I guess you have to ask, "Is it really necessary?"  I'm going to use scolaiw's quote here "can you truly have too much of a good thing" because I think it applies to the HD800 and 009 as well.  I'm going to assume that people on here have watched Jude's video reviews on the 009 and Abyss.  His impressions on the 009 seemed to be pretty consistent with most people's.  He did call them (at the time) the best headphone in the world due to the fact that there is just so much detail there but admitted they might be too bright for some and it took his brain a while to adjust.  However, like I just said, Jude mentioned that the big issue with the Stax was needing to purchase a top end electrostatic amp with them, pushing the cost of a 009 well up into 5 figures, making him very hesitant to buy them (not sure if he has by now - I don't think so though).  Then with his review of the Abyss, he stopped short of saying they were 'better' than the 009, because in terms of detail retrieval, technically, the Stax probably is better.  However, he did buy a pair of Abyss right after he heard them, even though he said that the 009 was technically a better headphone.  So maybe you can have too much of a good thing.  The HD800 has fantastic detail but needs to be warmed up a bit to be enjoyable (according to some) and the 009 is also 'technically' a marvel, but when presented with the two headphones and given the opportunity to audition them, Jude's opinion was the the 009 was probably the best headphone in the world, but bought the Abyss without hesitation.  So maybe if you had the two sitting on your desk waiting to be picked up and listened to, you'd pick up the 'less detailed' Abyss due to the fact that it breathes more life into the music and is a more enjoyable listen even though maybe the Stax would reveal that extra bit of information...


----------



## BournePerfect

So what's your question? 

-Daniel


----------



## mulder01

haha yeah fair point but it's not necessarily a question - this is a place for reviews, thoughts, impressions and discussions.  Normally if someone disagreed or agreed, this would be were they say their piece.  
  
 Do you have the Abyss?  Have you tried the Stax and Sennheisers?  Do you think I'm on the money, or way off?


----------



## scolaiw

mulder01 said:


> Do you think I'm on the money, or way off?


 

 Probably a bit of both.

 I think what you said is a very viable justification why SOME users prefer the Abyss to the SR-009. Similarly, I am sure there are SOME users who prefer the SR-009 to the Abyss for almost identical reasons. 

 At the end of the day, it all comes down to personal preferences. So long as you like what you hear, nothing else really matters.


----------



## up late

yep and more expensive doesn't guarantee better sound


----------



## Kiats

mulder01 said:


> haha yeah fair point but it's not necessarily a question - this is a place for reviews, thoughts, impressions and discussions.  Normally if someone disagreed or agreed, this would be were they say their piece.
> 
> Do you have the Abyss?  Have you tried the Stax and Sennheisers?  Do you think I'm on the money, or way off?




I thjnk you are fine. All sorts of reasons, economic and personal sig preferences, come into play.

I have both the Abyss and the HD800. I have listened to the SR09 a fair number of times. I do rotate my cans a fair bit. Though at the end of the day, I still find myself picking up the Abyss when I want to be blown away by the overall aural experience.


----------



## Kiats

up late said:


> yep and more expensive doesn't guarantee better sound




Agreed, Up Late. I think the entire chain plays a part. As well as what sort of sound we are looking for.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> Hmm, even though I've only heard the Abyss and not the HD800, I get the feeling that I would probably have a similar impression to the person who wrote the review posted by Music Alchemist.  I have noticed over time that hyper-detailed sound isn't necessarily something that I enjoy listening to, nor can I listen to for long periods without fatigue.  I also really like the sound of the Abyss and Audeze's.  Would I be correct in saying you really need to power the Sennheiser's through a tube amp or warmer signature solid state to round them off a bit?
> 
> One other thing re: the Abyss vs Stax, is that everyone always seems to complain about the massive price tag of the Abyss, but fail to note that the Stax will really only shine off a $5-$6k+ amp, and not only that, you're buying a $5-$6k+ electrostatic amp, which is primarily only ever going to be used for one pair of cans and one pair only.  Where as the Abyss is still worth owning with a cheaper amp (obviously it's even better off a $5-$6k+ amp also, but it's not a must).  And then you have the added advantage of owning a "normal" headphone amp which you can potentially use to drive all your other dynamic and planar flagship cans (if you have them), without having to buy additional gear.
> 
> Also, on the topic of detail retrieval, (which I thought was excellent on the Abyss anyway, but haven't been able to compare it to the HD800 or 009).  I guess you have to ask, "Is it really necessary?"  I'm going to use scolaiw's quote here "can you truly have too much of a good thing" because I think it applies to the HD800 and 009 as well.  I'm going to assume that people on here have watched Jude's video reviews on the 009 and Abyss.  His impressions on the 009 seemed to be pretty consistent with most people's.  He did call them (at the time) the best headphone in the world due to the fact that there is just so much detail there but admitted they might be too bright for some and it took his brain a while to adjust.  However, like I just said, Jude mentioned that the big issue with the Stax was needing to purchase a top end electrostatic amp with them, pushing the cost of a 009 well up into 5 figures, making him very hesitant to buy them (not sure if he has by now - I don't think so though).  Then with his review of the Abyss, he stopped short of saying they were 'better' than the 009, because in terms of detail retrieval, technically, the Stax probably is better.  However, he did buy a pair of Abyss right after he heard them, even though he said that the 009 was technically a better headphone.  So maybe you can have too much of a good thing.  The HD800 has fantastic detail but needs to be warmed up a bit to be enjoyable (according to some) and the 009 is also 'technically' a marvel, but when presented with the two headphones and given the opportunity to audition them, Jude's opinion was the the 009 was probably the best headphone in the world, but bought the Abyss without hesitation.  So maybe if you had the two sitting on your desk waiting to be picked up and listened to, you'd pick up the 'less detailed' Abyss due to the fact that it breathes more life into the music and is a more enjoyable listen even though maybe the Stax would reveal that extra bit of information...


 
  
 I talk to individuals on a daily basis who actually prefer some of the cheaper (although much more rare) electrostatic STAX headphones (ones that don't need TOTL amps to shine) over the flagships. We're talking setups that only cost a few hundred dollars here, outclassing four-to-five figure systems, at least to their ears.
  
 Some prefer the more relaxed and natural SR-007 over the SR-009 and feel that the extra detail of the latter is unnecessary.
  
 I've seen it mentioned more than once that the SR-009 has a similar sound to the HD 800 and takes it all to the next level, surpassing its dynamic cousin in every respect. I'm not too keen on taking that literally, but it's an interesting illustration. Many HD 800 owners insist that its soundstage, neutrality/accuracy, and detail retrieval are unparalleled. It's no slouch, that's for sure.
  
 You don't necessarily need a warmer-sounding amp. The Sennheiser HDVD 800 is fine-tuned to the HD 800 and has the same type of neutral sound, but doesn't seem to be overly harsh, from what I've heard.
  
 In my as yet unpublished text file with all those Abyss review quotes, there are at least a dozen comparisons to the SR-009. Like I said before, plenty of people prefer one over the other, and as far as I am concerned, they are both worthy members of a high-end collection.
  
 ...but I'm pretty sure - even before hearing any of these headphones - that I would enjoy the Abyss the most overall.


----------



## NinjaHamster

mulder01 said:


> Hmm, even though I've only heard the Abyss and not the HD800, I get the feeling that I would probably have a similar impression to the person who wrote the review posted by Music Alchemist.  I have noticed over time that hyper-detailed sound isn't necessarily something that I enjoy listening to, nor can I listen to for long periods without fatigue.  I also really like the sound of the Abyss and Audeze's.  Would I be correct in saying you really need to power the Sennheiser's through a tube amp or warmer signature solid state to round them off a bit?
> 
> One other thing re: the Abyss vs Stax, is that everyone always seems to complain about the massive price tag of the Abyss, but fail to note that the Stax will really only shine off a $5-$6k+ amp, and not only that, you're buying a $5-$6k+ electrostatic amp, which is primarily only ever going to be used for one pair of cans and one pair only.  Where as the Abyss is still worth owning with a cheaper amp (obviously it's even better off a $5-$6k+ amp also, but it's not a must).  And then you have the added advantage of owning a "normal" headphone amp which you can potentially use to drive all your other dynamic and planar flagship cans (if you have them), without having to buy additional gear.
> 
> Also, on the topic of detail retrieval, (which I thought was excellent on the Abyss anyway, but haven't been able to compare it to the HD800 or 009).  I guess you have to ask, "Is it really necessary?"  I'm going to use scolaiw's quote here "can you truly have too much of a good thing" because I think it applies to the HD800 and 009 as well.  I'm going to assume that people on here have watched Jude's video reviews on the 009 and Abyss.  His impressions on the 009 seemed to be pretty consistent with most people's.  He did call them (at the time) the best headphone in the world due to the fact that there is just so much detail there but admitted they might be too bright for some and it took his brain a while to adjust.  However, like I just said, Jude mentioned that the big issue with the Stax was needing to purchase a top end electrostatic amp with them, pushing the cost of a 009 well up into 5 figures, making him very hesitant to buy them (not sure if he has by now - I don't think so though).  Then with his review of the Abyss, he stopped short of saying they were 'better' than the 009, because in terms of detail retrieval, technically, the Stax probably is better.  However, he did buy a pair of Abyss right after he heard them, even though he said that the 009 was technically a better headphone.  So maybe you can have too much of a good thing.  The HD800 has fantastic detail but needs to be warmed up a bit to be enjoyable (according to some) and the 009 is also 'technically' a marvel, but when presented with the two headphones and given the opportunity to audition them, Jude's opinion was the the 009 was probably the best headphone in the world, but bought the Abyss without hesitation.  So maybe if you had the two sitting on your desk waiting to be picked up and listened to, you'd pick up the 'less detailed' Abyss due to the fact that it breathes more life into the music and is a more enjoyable listen even though maybe the Stax would reveal that extra bit of information...


 

 Why such confidence in conjecturing about Jude's unstated thoughts a to why he bought an Abyss over a 009 ?  Maybe his decision was prompted by price (including amp - Jude was happy to use a cheap Mjolnir with the Abyss) - maybe $6,000 sounded better to him than $10,000 ? ... I don't know - but neither do you.


----------



## Music Alchemist

ninjahamster said:


> Why such confidence in conjecturing about Jude's unstated thoughts a to why he bought an Abyss over a 009 ?  Maybe his decision was prompted by price (including amp - Jude was happy to use a cheap Mjolnir with the Abyss) - maybe $6,000 sounded better to him than $10,000 ? ... I don't know - but neither do you.


 
  
 I wanted to mention that as well. He actually didn't go into a detailed comparison between the two.


----------



## arnaud

About the Stax 009 needing 5kUSD amp to sound right, it's typically not first hand experience comments. What I mean by this, is that people assume de facto that a 5kUSD woo amp is miles better than a Stax srm323s or 727 when driving sr009, and that's not necessarily true. 

For some reason, it happens to be that the 009 does not suck at all with the 727 Stax amp for instance ime, even comparing against a properly tubed Electra for example. It's definitely perfectible, but that special quality of the sr009 to be a chameleon when it comes to showing you the recording in all it's glory details is certainly much better than anything else I've ever hear.

IMO, not all 5kUSD 3rd party stat amps are worth anywhere near what they cost, regardless of blanket statements you might read around...

Having said that, if you could not be bothered with dedicated amp or having a preference for the beefier / more meaty sound of some planar phones, that stats probably aren't for you. 

Arnaud


----------



## Crashem

arnaud said:


> About the Stax 009 needing 5kUSD amp to sound right, it's typically not first hand experience comments. What I mean by this, is that people assume de facto that a 5kUSD woo amp is miles better than a Stax srm323s or 727 when driving sr009, and that's not necessarily true.
> 
> For some reason, it happens to be that the 009 does not suck at all with the 727 Stax amp for instance ime, even comparing against a properly tubed Electra for example. It's definitely perfectible, but that special quality of the sr009 to be a chameleon when it comes to showing you the recording in all it's glory details is certainly much better than anything else I've ever hear.
> 
> ...




+1 sr009 sound awesome with any decent stat amp. Sr009 owners tend to only want the best so are willing to spend the extra $x dollars to get it. You don't buy the sr009 without looking for the best sound. The problem with any stat headphone is that it basically requires its own amp (irrespective of those multi functional amps) which can only be used for the sr009 so OP is right about additional cost to some extent. However, sr009 are actually easier to drive than its predecessors. If sr009 was not a stat headphone, I would guess it would be easier to drive than abyss. There is something magical about the effortlessness of the sr009 specifically and all good stat headphones in general when producing music that no non stat headphone can duplicate. The abyss to my ears sounds like a really good headphone but lacks that magical quality.


----------



## Crashem

mulder01 said:


> Hmm, even though I've only heard the Abyss and not the HD800, I get the feeling that I would probably have a similar impression to the person who wrote the review posted by Music Alchemist.  I have noticed over time that hyper-detailed sound isn't necessarily something that I enjoy listening to, nor can I listen to for long periods without fatigue.  I also really like the sound of the Abyss and Audeze's.  Would I be correct in saying you really need to power the Sennheiser's through a tube amp or warmer signature solid state to round them off a bit?




I wouldn't call hd800 hyper detailed and fatiguing. Personally I think its huge (unnatural?) soundstage makes picking out details much easier. With big orchestral pieces and other "big" sound music, the hd800 will sound awesome with any decent amp as there is enough sound to fill up soundstage and the huge soundstage benefits come to the fore. Funny thing, with solo instruments and the like, the hd800 also sounds great as the huge soundstage is less evident. I would consider it "easier" to find a good amp for hd800 than abyss for these types of music. However, for everything in between, the hd800 may sound thin or strange. I listened to a some Rolling Stones songs and it sounded to my ears that the huge soundstage gave too much separation to the different instruments to be natural and got in the way of the enjoyment of the song as a whole. This is where the tube amps come in. Since going to the EC MKIV, I find the hd800 much more capable of all music.


----------



## Music Alchemist

crashem said:


> There is something magical about the effortlessness of the sr009 specifically and all good stat headphones in general when producing music that no non stat headphone can duplicate. The abyss to my ears sounds like a really good headphone but lacks that magical quality.


 
  
 One of many reasons why I want both!


----------



## David1961

I've said many times ( some will think too many ) that when I go for headphones and also amp and source, I don't just go for SQ but looks as well. 
I was never happy with how the 009's looked with it's original headband which is why I did something about it.
Now I'm not going to knock the Abyss's looks anymore but let's assume we were all given $250,000 or £150,000 but we could only spend it on one of two new vehicles, either a Ferrari California of a Tractor. Farmers not included, hands up how many would be going for a tractor.


----------



## Music Alchemist

david1961 said:


> I've said many times ( some will think too many ) that when I go for headphones and also amp and source, I don't just go for SQ but looks as well.
> I was never happy with how the 009's looked with it's original headband which is why I did something about it.
> Now I'm not going to knock the Abyss's looks anymore but let's assume we were all given $250,000 or £150,000 but we could only spend it on one of two new vehicles, either a Ferrari California of a Tractor. Farmers not included, hands up how many would be going for a tractor.


 
  
 I saw your custom SR-009 headband! I always thought the stock headband made it look like a penguin wearing a tuxedo, and much sillier when sticking out above your head.
  
 Personally, I think both headphones look really cool in their own way. I wouldn't wear either in public, though.
  
 Speaking of supercars and tractors, Lamborghini actually started out making those.


----------



## eric65

arnaud said:


> About the Stax 009 needing 5kUSD amp to sound right, it's typically not first hand experience comments. What I mean by this, is that people assume de facto that a 5kUSD woo amp is miles better than a Stax srm323s or 727 when driving sr009, and that's not necessarily true.
> 
> For some reason, it happens to be that the 009 does not suck at all with the 727 Stax amp for instance ime, even comparing against a properly tubed Electra for example. It's definitely perfectible, but that special quality of the sr009 to be a chameleon when it comes to showing you the recording in all it's glory details is certainly much better than anything else I've ever hear.
> 
> ...


 
  
 In Europe, for 3000 Euros, you can have a very good amp to operate very correctly the very easy to drive headphones Stax SR-009: either the amplifier Stax SRM 727, or, even better, after the firsts listening, the AudioValve combo (RKV-II + Verto box) (for the same price in Europe than the SRM 727).
  
 In addition, for the latter set (combo RKV-Verto), you can for 0 Euros extra, to work very properly an orthodynamic headphone (planar) of low sensitivity and low impedance as the Abyss.
 Will still remain to spend 6000 Euros to buy the Abyss (which is not given 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Eric


----------



## David1961

music alchemist said:


> Speaking of supercars and tractors, Lamborghini actually started out making those.


 
  
 Thank you for sharing your knowledge on Lamborghini starting out making tractors, I didn't know that.
 But I don't think Lamborghini would've been as successful if they'd designed their super cars to look like a tractor.


----------



## Music Alchemist

david1961 said:


> Thank you for sharing your knowledge on Lamborghini starting out making tractors, I didn't know that.
> But I don't think Lamborghini would've been as successful if they'd designed their super cars to look like a tractor.


 
  
 From this...
  

  
 ...to this...
  

  
 (This is the Lamborghini Egoista. Only one was ever made, and among other things, it uses jet fuel!)
  
 The SR-009 definitely exudes luxury; the Abyss has a more rebellious look with less mass appeal.


----------



## David1961

That tractor looks beautiful. I think I might just end up getting an Abyss. Just Kidding.


----------



## Music Alchemist

david1961 said:


> That tractor looks beautiful. I think I might just end up getting an Abyss. Just Kidding.


 
  
 Want to know the most amusing thing about you popping in at this time?
  
 Before you did, I was taking a walk and randomly thought of your post about using your BHSE to somehow drive Apple earbuds and being surprised at how good they sounded...or something like that.


----------



## David1961

music alchemist said:


> david1961 said:
> 
> 
> > That tractor looks beautiful. I think I might just end up getting an Abyss. Just Kidding.
> ...


 
  
 Please show me that post I've supposed to have written.
 I did write one where I used the apple earbuds with my Pico Slim.


----------



## Music Alchemist

david1961 said:


> Please show me that post I've supposed to have written.


 
  
 Come to think of it, it could have been a post by another BHSE owner. I should have given it more thought, because I can't find the post now...


----------



## David1961

music alchemist said:


> david1961 said:
> 
> 
> > Please show me that post I've supposed to have written.
> ...




You won't find a post written by me about using my BHSE with apple earbuds because I never wrote one.
I did write one saying the earbuds sounded very good while using my Pico Slim which they did, but my Pico Slim was connected to my K-01.


----------



## Music Alchemist

david1961 said:


> You won't find a post written by me about using my BHSE with apple earbuds because I never wrote one.
> I did write one saying the earbuds sounded very good while using my Pico Slim which they did, but my Pico Slim was connected to my K-01.


 
  
 It must have been someone else, because I just found that post of yours.
  
 Anyway, I apologize for allowing this thread to become so derailed with my random musings.


----------



## David1961

music alchemist said:


> It must have been someone else, because I just found that post of yours.
> 
> Anyway, I apologize for allowing this thread to become so derailed with my random musings.


 
  
 I shouldn't be knocking the Abyss's looks, [ again ] it's just that for what the Abyss costs it should be perfect in every way.


----------



## Music Alchemist

david1961 said:


> I shouldn't be knocking the Abyss's looks, [ again ] it's just that for what the Abyss costs it should be perfect in every way.


 
  
 How would you change their looks? If you altered them too much, they would lose their uniqueness and look like the average headphone.
  
 A crucial thing to consider is that every aspect of the design was intentional, in order to enhance the sound quality, ease of use, etc.


----------



## David1961

music alchemist said:


> How would you change their looks? If you altered them too much, they would lose their uniqueness and look like the average headphone.
> 
> A crucial thing to consider is that every aspect of the design was intentional, in order to enhance the sound quality, ease of use, etc.


 
  
 I've said before, do one that looks like a HE-90.
 Regarding it's ease of use, I wouldn't know because I've never touch or even seen one apart from photos, but my friend has and has also tried them and he told me they were very awkward to get a perfect fit.
 Also about the possibility of changing it's SQ, I was told this about my 009's before I did the new headband, I was told the 009's headband was designed that way for a reason and in changing it would alter it's SQ, well I have and the SQ hasn't changed.
  
 Now I think I should shop writing on this thread because otherwise I can see me getting banned, unless someone is already in the process of doing that.


----------



## Music Alchemist

david1961 said:


> I've said before, do one that looks like a HE-90.
> Regarding it's ease of use, I wouldn't know because I've never touch or even seen one apart from photos, but my friend has and has also tried them and he told me they were very awkward to get a perfect fit.
> Also about the possibility of changing it's SQ, I was told this about my 009's before I did the new headband, I was told the 009's headband was designed that way for a reason and in changing it would alter it's SQ, well I have and the SQ hasn't changed.
> 
> Now I think I should shop writing on this thread because otherwise I can see me getting banned, unless someone is already in the process of doing that.


 
  
 I actually had a dream last night about buying the HE 90 for $200...whereas in real life, the Orpheus system can be listed on eBay for upwards of $30K. I like the way it looks, but the Abyss is a unique headphone. I for one appreciate the risk they took in designing something so different.
  
 The Abyss headband is rigid to address the issue of vibration control and so on. I haven't heard anything about how the SR-009 headband affects its sound.
  
 I don't think you've said anything wrong. Just discussing your own findings. It's difficult for any given thread to stay totally focused on its original topic.


----------



## David1961

music alchemist said:


> I actually had a dream last night about buying the HE 90 for $200...whereas in real life, the Orpheus system can be listed on eBay for upwards of $30K. I like the way it looks, but the Abyss is a unique headphone. I for one appreciate the risk they took in designing something so different.
> 
> The Abyss headband is rigid to address the issue of vibration control and so on. I haven't heard anything about how the SR-009 headband affects its sound.
> 
> I don't think you've said anything wrong. Just discussing your own findings. It's difficult for any given thread to stay totally focused on its original topic.


 
  
 I may come across that I'm a fanboy of the 009's, and that when someone says a different headphone sounds better, then it annoys me, that's not the case.
 If the Abyss does sound better than the 009's then that's all good with me.
 I do very much like my 009's but I've also got the LCD-XC's and HD-600's which I also use, not as much as the 009's but I still use them.
 Ironically since selling the GS-Xmk2 I once had, I use both the LCD-XC and HD-600 with my Pico Slim, again connected to the K-01.


----------



## pearljam50000

david1961 said:


> I may come across that I'm a fanboy of the 009's, and that when someone says a different headphone sounds better, then it annoys me, that's not the case.
> If the Abyss does sound better than the 009's then that's all good with me.
> I do very much like my 009's but I've also got the LCD-XC's and HD-600's which I also use, not as much as the 009's but I still use them.
> Ironically since selling the GS-Xmk2 I once had, I use both the LCD-XC and HD-600 with my Pico Slim, again connected to the K-01.



Have you tried the HD800?


----------



## David1961

pearljam50000 said:


> Have you tried the HD800?





I've heard the HD-800's once at a head-fi meeting in 2012 and a Hi-fi meeting a couple of months ago, and both times I wasn't impressed, I can't remember the amp and source being used on both occasions though.
I also got to hear the HD-800's for a very short time with the GS-Xmk2 I then had, but I can't remember how the 800's sounded because of the short time I heard them.
I wasn't auditioning them then because my 009 / BHSE were being auditioned by the person that brought the HD-800's.


----------



## Music Alchemist

david1961 said:


> I've heard the HD-800's once at a head-fi meeting in 2012 and a Hi-fi meeting a couple of months ago, and both times I wasn't impressed, I can't remember the amp and source being used on both occasions though.
> I also got to hear the HD-800's for a very short time with the GS-Xmk2 I then had, but I can't remember how the 800's sounded because of the short time I heard them.
> I wasn't auditioning them then because my 009 / BHSE were being auditioned by the person that brought the HD-800's.


 
  
 Out of all the HD 800 combos I've read about, the GS-X mk2 has by far the most impressive commentary.
  
 I know it's been said many times before: the HD 800 is notorious for being picky with amps (although this has been contested in various technical discussions) and will sound quite different through different systems. It scales more than most others too.


----------



## BournePerfect

:rolleyes:


----------



## mulder01

> Originally Posted by *scolaiw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I think what you said is a very viable justification why SOME users prefer the Abyss to the SR-009. Similarly, I am sure there are SOME users who prefer the SR-009 to the Abyss for almost identical reasons.
> 
> At the end of the day, it all comes down to personal preferences. So long as you like what you hear, nothing else really matters.


 
  
 I agree totally that it's personal preference, I guess I was speaking with bias toward my tastes and bias toward the Abyss (this is the Abyss thread), but I am admitting that the consensus seems to be that the 009 is more detailed.
  


ninjahamster said:


> Why such confidence in conjecturing about Jude's unstated thoughts a to why he bought an Abyss over a 009 ?  Maybe his decision was prompted by price (including amp - Jude was happy to use a cheap Mjolnir with the Abyss) - maybe $6,000 sounded better to him than $10,000 ? ... I don't know - but neither do you.


 
  
 That's kinda exactly what I was trying to say (perhaps not very well).  I think the amping of the 009 was the issue like you said, but I don't know, that was just my thoughts.  The very last bit of that post was my own conclusion, not what I thought he would say about the two.  I admit some of my posts are not quite as well worded as some people's.  It was my own impressions based on his reviews, if that makes sense.
  


arnaud said:


> About the Stax 009 needing 5kUSD amp to sound right, it's typically not first hand experience comments. What I mean by this, is that people assume de facto that a 5kUSD woo amp is miles better than a Stax srm323s or 727 when driving sr009, and that's not necessarily true.
> 
> For some reason, it happens to be that the 009 does not suck at all with the 727 Stax amp for instance ime, even comparing against a properly tubed Electra for example. It's definitely perfectible, but that special quality of the sr009 to be a chameleon when it comes to showing you the recording in all it's glory details is certainly much better than anything else I've ever hear.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're right I am generalising about the amps - I haven't heard the Stax first hand so all I can do is rely on what I hear from others unfortunately.  I just looked up the 727 Stax amp, and in Australia it's still a $3749 amp, which is still quite expensive.  For me anyway.
  


david1961 said:


> I've said many times ( some will think too many ) that when I go for headphones and also amp and source, I don't just go for SQ but looks as well.
> I was never happy with how the 009's looked with it's original headband which is why I did something about it.
> Now I'm not going to knock the Abyss's looks anymore but let's assume we were all given $250,000 or £150,000 but we could only spend it on one of two new vehicles, either a Ferrari California of a Tractor. Farmers not included, hands up how many would be going for a tractor.


 
  
 Yeah, look, I don't know many people that will defend the looks of them.  But once you're listening to them in the comfort of your own home, you may not care what you look like.  I'm going to tell myself that they're metal, and that's cool.  
  


music alchemist said:


> Some prefer the more relaxed and natural SR-007 over the SR-009 and feel that the extra detail of the latter is unnecessary.


 
  
 That's true, I've heard that as well.  Maybe I should be looking at the 007 instead.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> Yeah, look, I don't know many people that will defend the looks of them.  But once you're listening to them in the comfort of your own home, you may not care what you look like.  I'm going to tell myself that they're metal, and that's cool.
> 
> That's true, I've heard that as well.  Maybe I should be looking at the 007 instead.


 
  
 Worry not, my comrade - I shall defend them to the death! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  
 I think the Abyss looks especially cool from a side angle. That foamed aluminum is godlike.
  

  
 Check out the gnarly prototype:
  


  
 All these headphones sound different, so I might as well collect 'em once I have the chance.


----------



## stacker45

Now I remembe why I had stopped reading post regarding The Abyss, people couldn't get pass their looks, and concentrate on the most important thing, (please don't make me say it). I see that saddly, things haven't change much.
  
 This is too bad, but at least, those who do own them, seem to be satisfied, and that all that matters.
  
 I'm hoping that all, or at least one of you will see why I find this next phrase relevent to this thread. If not I'll gladly explain my reasoning.  A Yamaha rep once told me, ''I'm not too worried when Mcintosh comes out with a new surround sound processor, it's when Denon comes out with one, that I sit up and take notice.


----------



## up late

i'd like to see more posts from folks who've actually tried the thing. dunno why anyone would be talking up and defending a can they haven't heard. too much fanboyism and second-hand opinions over the last 10 pages.


----------



## mulder01

up late said:


> i'd like to see more posts from folks who've actually tried the thing. dunno why anyone would be talking up and defending a can they haven't heard. too much fanboyism and second-hand opinions over the last 10 pages.


 
 Not sure if you're referring to me, but I've heard them.  
 Previously, I completely wrote them off before I'd ever even listened to them because of the price.  Even when given the oppurtunity to listen to them I was hesitant because of the cost of them.  
 I think a lot of people posting recently either own or have heard them.  The first 30 odd pages though people mostly hadn't.  
 The only reason I'm on this forum is because I loved them so much and am interested in discussions about them.  If I hadn't of listened to them, I would still be ignoring their existence due to the high price tag.


----------



## Crashem

david1961 said:


> I shouldn't be knocking the Abyss's looks, [ again ] it's just that for what the Abyss costs it should be perfect in every way.


 
  
 Was trying to explain to my wife the argument happening in this thread.  Explained that the Abyss kind of looked like medieval torture device.  Was looking for images on thread to show her picture of it on someone.  Realized there are surprisingly few pictures of the Abyss being worn and many more of the headphones on their own or parts of it.  Btw, when to Abyss website first and even worse there with parts of the Abyss in various shots so I guess JPS knows looks aren't the Abyss' strong suit.


----------



## scolaiw

crashem said:


> Was trying to explain to my wife the argument happening in this thread.  Explained that the Abyss kind of looked like medieval torture device.  Was looking for images on thread to show her picture of it on someone.  Realized there are surprisingly few pictures of the Abyss being worn and many more of the headphones on their own or parts of it.  Btw, when to Abyss website first and even worse there with parts of the Abyss in various shots so I guess JPS knows looks aren't the Abyss' strong suit.


 

 Your wife is actually willing to listen to you talk about $5000 headphones? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I can see why you married her!


----------



## Crashem

scolaiw said:


> Your wife is actually willing to listen to you talk about $5000 headphones?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Actually, she turned on the vacuum at one point in the "conversation."  We recently had baby.  Hence we are up at all hours and my enthusiasm in headphone equipment is at all time highs.  Baby=No More Speakers.  As for the price, didn't really go into the exact price but she has gotten enough jewelry recently that she should be okay with it, but why risk it


----------



## mulder01

scolaiw said:


> Your wife is actually willing to listen to you talk about $5000 headphones?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 What a catch 
  
 Dunno if it's an argument - everyone seems to agree that they look kinda ugly, just some people are able to get past it.  Nomax thinks they are the ugliest cans in the world but also the best sounding cans in the world.  
 I guess that's a testament to the sound quality of these things - if they made it look absolutely ridiculous, like you were wearing a wedge of cheese on your head, and people still bought them, they must sound _really really_ good.


----------



## scolaiw

crashem said:


> Actually, she turned on the vacuum at one point in the "conversation."  We recently had baby.  Hence we are up at all hours and my enthusiasm in headphone equipment is at all time highs.  Baby=No More Speakers.  As for the price, didn't really go into the exact price but she has gotten enough jewelry recently that she should be okay with it, but why risk it


 

 Hahaha, at least until the credit card statement arrives right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, congrats on the baby! Have you had a look at some of the closed back cans like the Fostex TH900 yet? The Abyss leaks quite a bit of sound from past experiences.


----------



## scolaiw

> Originally Posted by *mulder01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Dunno if it's an argument - everyone seems to agree that they look kinda ugly, just some people are able to get past it.  Nomax thinks they are the ugliest cans in the world but also the best sounding cans in the world.
> I guess that's a testament to the sound quality of these things - if they made it look absolutely ridiculous, like you were wearing a wedge of cheese on your head, and people still bought them, they must sound _really really_ good.


 

 I don't know why people dislike their looks so much though. I actually don't mind them at all. Looks very steampunk and industrial to me (and as a result, gives off an indestructible vibe). I'm more concerned about the weight and comfort for long periods of use to be perfectly honest.


----------



## chengka7

lol, I have listened to my Abyss and HD800 through many amps. Among them are Eddie Current Balancing Act, Eddie Current 2A3MKIV, GSX-MKII, DNA stratus, Susy Dynahi, Auralic Taurus MKII, Audio-gd master 9. I have to say in terms of scalability, HD800 really destroys Abyss in every way. Abyss is not like the phone that requires absolutely best amp to sound its best. However, with the right amp, like Eddie Current Balancing Act and 2A3MKIV, HD800 is truly a pair of remarkable headphones. It does not have the feeling of strength that Abyss provides, but it has the best imaging and precision among all the headphones I have or owned. 
  
 Regarding to the amping choice of HD800 and Abyss, my favorite is Eddie Current 2A3MKIV and balancing act. And I do not think GSX-MKII is a good choice for HD800 or Abyss. And I think even the balanced Dynahi is far better than GSX-MKII. I just had a private meet with one of my old friend who owned both GSX-MKII and Dynahi. I agreed that I was blown away by GSX-MKII when I first heard it, but then, I found Susy Dynahi is way better than GSX-MKII, but I have to say I did not give enough audition time for Dynahi, so I might be wrong. But when it comes to my Eddie Current 2A3MKIV and ECBA, man, there is no contest. 2A3MKIV and ECBA easily win. GSX-MKII is a remarkable amp for LCD's or TH900, but it just not good when paired with Abyss and HD800.
  
 This is just my 2 cents, and I would like to say there is really hard to tell which one is absolutely the best when you are comparing those TOTL headphones. Just pick the one you like, and there is no point to defend them or attack them I think, especially when you are not even considering buying one. I also think HD650 is absolutely one of the best headphone I have ever owned. I like HD650 even more than LCD-2 and LCD-X.


----------



## up late

they're not stylish but the looks wouldn't put me off owning a pair. but the price definitely does. i've also got concerns about their long term wearability.


----------



## David1961

music alchemist said:


> mulder01 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, look, I don't know many people that will defend the looks of them.  But once you're listening to them in the comfort of your own home, you may not care what you look like.  I'm going to tell myself that they're metal, and that's cool.
> ...


 
  
  
 Putting lipstick on a pig, doesn't mean I'd want to give it a kiss


----------



## up late

think you've made your point man


----------



## David1961

up late said:


> think you've made your point man




I hope so, because then the designer of the Abyss might design another headphone that looks as good as the Abyss is supposed to sound.
I'd very much like to hear the Abyss, but there's no way I'll put that thing on my head.
Like you say I've made my point so it's end of story.


----------



## up late

so you keep saying. i got past the look once I heard them. cans tend to look pretty ridiculous on most folks imo.


----------



## David1961

up late said:


> so you keep saying. i got past the look once I heard them. cans tend to look pretty ridiculous on most folks imo.




True that I've said a few times that I won't knock the Abyss's looks anymore, it's just when I see posts justifying it's looks because it's supposed to sound so good, I feel I have to post something.
I haven't just been knocking the Abyss's looks, I've also done the same about the 009's headband, but not as much as the Abyss.


----------



## up late

then push the keyboard away.  agree that it's not sleek and stylish but it's well made. jude described it as over engineered and i gotta agree with him. it should outlast the owner.


----------



## David1961

up late said:


> then push the keyboard away.  agree that it's not sleek and stylish but it's well made. jude described it as over engineered and i gotta agree with him. it should outlast the owner.




That's probably the best thing to do.

What I would like to happen is for every head-fier to post a photo of themselves wearing their headphones, after all it's something I've done with my 009's which is something I wouldn't have done with it's original headband.


----------



## mulder01

david1961 said:


> I'd very much like to hear the Abyss, but there's no way I'll put that thing on my head.


 
  
 Apologies in advance to up late for continuing the subject, but I gotta say - boy that is a passionate hate, especially for someone who looks like (from their profile at least) someone who's pretty serious about high end audio and in pursuit of the best.  To flat out refuse to even listen to such a pinnacle of audio products solely because of a styling issue is pretty outrageous.


----------



## Eide

I wish I took som selfies wearing the Abyss. I will do that next time. I really like that they doesn't look like any other headphone in the world. They are built like a tank. You could probably throw them around and really abuse them... 

It was kind of cumbersome to take them on and off due to the stiff frame, but once I had them on they where very comfortable. I wore them for like an hour without noticing any discomfort.


----------



## David1961

mulder01 said:


> david1961 said:
> 
> 
> > I'd very much like to hear the Abyss, but there's no way I'll put that thing on my head.
> ...




Like I've done wearing my 009's, please post a photo of yourself wearing your Abyss.

Regarding me not wanting to try those headphones because of their looks, that's true, but from headphones I like as much detail and transparency as possible but without a very strong bass, the kind a bass head would like.
Now my friend head-fier IanG owns the 009's driven by the LL, has heard the Abyss and he told me they have a strong bass, so the Abyss probably wouldn't give me the sound I'm looking for.


----------



## mulder01

david1961 said:


> Like I've done wearing my 009's, please post a photo of yourself wearing your Abyss.
> 
> Regarding me not wanting to try those headphones because of their looks, that's true, but from headphones I like as much detail and transparency as possible but without a very strong bass, the kind a bass head would like.
> Now my friend head-fier IanG owns the 009's driven by the LL, has heard the Abyss and he told me they have a strong bass, so the Abyss probably wouldn't give me the sound I'm looking for.


 
 A few members have posted pictures of people wearing the Abyss.  (I can't because unfortunately I don't own them yet).  But from your arguments, it seems like you regard fashion as a much higher priority than most other people here.  Now finally after all this talk about the way it looks, you now mention that it's not got a sound signature that you'd like anyway.  Shouldn't that have been the #1 thing?  Why are you posting photos of tractors to try and make your point to head-fi enthusiasts that are well aware of what it looks like but want to know how it sounds?


----------



## David1961

mulder01 said:


> david1961 said:
> 
> 
> > Like I've done wearing my 009's, please post a photo of yourself wearing your Abyss.
> ...




From what my friend has told me then yes, the abyss probably wouldn't give me the SQ I'm looking for, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have liked to have found out for myself.

Regarding me posting photos of a tractor, if you look carefully you'll notice it wasn't originally posted by me.

Now I'm trying to not post anymore on this thread but others seem to be provoking me into doing so.
Stop replying to the posts I've done on this thread and I'll stop writing anymore.


----------



## mulder01

david1961 said:


> Now I'm trying to not post anymore on this thread but others seem to be provoking me into doing so.
> Stop replying to the posts I've done on this thread and I'll shop writing anymore.


 
  
 Well personally I don't mind everyone having their say as long as it's on topic.  I think all discussion about the Abyss is welcome in the Abyss thread.


----------



## up late

wouldn't call the bass very strong anyways. fact is that david1961 won't know how the bass sounds or how detailed and transparent it is unless he tries it himself and that's clearly not gonna happen.


----------



## pearljam50000

Welcome to fashion-fi...


----------



## David1961

OK , when I get the opportunity I'll give the abyss a try, then I'll know for sure how it compares to the 009's.
Don't expect me to post any photos of me wearing them though.


----------



## up late

might be for the best  but seriously what have you got to lose by giving it a listen?


----------



## Kiats

up late said:


> might be for the best  but seriously what have you got to lose by giving it a listen?




Indeed!


----------



## David1961

kiats said:


> up late said:
> 
> 
> > might be for the best  but seriously what have you got to lose by giving it a listen?
> ...




I'll do that, but I'll have to rely on my friend taking me to the place he got to hear them because after a serious motorcycle accident I no longer drive.


----------



## Audio Jester

Maybe we are missing something here. The design of the Abyss seems to be very focused on utility, as some have mentioned its ability to conform to a required shape, but there is the aspect that creating something very polarizing through aesthetics generates market awareness and drives conversations like the one currently in this thread. Personally I see this as a calculated decision and I feel it was a smart one. 

K1000,Jecklin Float... It's hard to forget a Frankenstein. 

Edit: To add to that, I'm here for the music and if the Abyss delivers $6k worth of sonics I'm in irrespective of its tortured aesthetics.


----------



## Kiats

david1961 said:


> I'll do that, but I'll have to rely on my friend taking me to the place he got to hear them because after a serious motorcycle accident I no longer drive.




Sorry to hear that. But do have a listen. Between the SR09 and the Abyss, I frankly feel that they are complementary in their sigs. Which is why the SR09 is in my sights.


----------



## Kiats

audio jester said:


> Maybe we are missing something here. The design of the Abyss seems to be very focused on utility, as some have mentioned its ability to conform to a required shape, but there is the aspect that creating something very polarizing through aesthetics generates market awareness and drives conversations like the one currently in this thread. Personally I see this as a calculated decision and I feel it was a smart one.
> 
> K1000,Jecklin Float... It's hard to forget a Frankenstein.
> 
> Edit: To add to that, I'm here for the music and if the Abyss delivers $6k worth of sonics I'm in irrespective of its tortured aesthetics.




Heheh! Well said! Go and have a listen and see/hear what all the fuss is about.


----------



## up late

david1961 said:


> I'll do that, but I'll have to rely on my friend taking me to the place he got to hear them because after a serious motorcycle accident I no longer drive.




sorry to hear that man. do you still have your helmet? maybe you can put it on over the abyss to avoid embarrassment.


----------



## Audio Jester

kiats said:


> Heheh! Well said! Go and have a listen and see/hear what all the fuss is about.


 Absolutely! I look forward to giving it a go. 

Has anyone tried it with the Master 9?


----------



## kurochin

audio jester said:


> K1000,Jecklin Float... It's hard to forget a Frankenstein.


 
  
 You forgot the TakeT H2+
 Fwiw, I'm a fan of the TakeT and the Abyss' sound. K1000, not so much. Never tried the Freckin Float before though.
  
  


up late said:


> sorry to hear that man. do you still have your helmet? maybe you can put it on over the abyss to avoid embarrassment.


 
  
 Helmet + Abyss = FrankenStig!!
 Wonder how fast the Abyss will lap the Top Gear track.


----------



## Audio Jester

kurochin said:


> You forgot the TakeT H2+
> Fwiw, I'm a fan of the TakeT and the Abyss' sound. K1000, not so much. Never tried the Freckin Float before though.


 Thanks Kurochin, you just shot my point down in flames.


----------



## David1961

kiats said:


> Sorry to hear that. But do have a listen. Between the SR09 and the Abyss, I frankly feel that they are complementary in their sigs. Which is why the SR09 is in my sights.


 
  
  


up late said:


> sorry to hear that man. do you still have your helmet? maybe you can put it on over the abyss to avoid embarrassment.


 
  
 The accident I had was 18 years ago to which I've not fully recovered from, and probably never will.
 I had to get rid of the helmet because it couldn't be used anymore, I owe a lot to that helmet because apparently it saved my life, it was an Arai.
  
 Luckily my hearing wasn't damaged which is why I'm able to use headphones which gives me a lot of enjoyment.


----------



## Kiats

david1961 said:


> The accident I had was 18 years ago to which I've not fully recovered from, and probably never will.
> I had to get rid of the helmet because it couldn't be used anymore, I owe a lot to that helmet because apparently it saved my life, it was an Arai.
> 
> Luckily my hearing wasn't damaged which is why I'm able to use headphones which gives me a lot of enjoyment.




I see. All I will say is we still have the ability to enjoy music and let's use it.


----------



## up late

david1961 said:


> The accident I had was 18 years ago to which I've not fully recovered from, and probably never will.
> I had to get rid of the helmet because it couldn't be used anymore, I owe a lot to that helmet because apparently it saved my life, it was an Arai.
> 
> Luckily my hearing wasn't damaged which is why I'm able to use headphones which gives me a lot of enjoyment.




glad this hobby gives you some joy man. let us know what you think of the abyss if you get to hear it.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Wow, this thread really picked up since I went to sleep!
  


up late said:


> i'd like to see more posts from folks who've actually tried the thing. dunno why anyone would be talking up and defending a can they haven't heard. too much fanboyism and second-hand opinions over the last 10 pages.


 
  
 While I haven't heard them myself yet, I have read a ridiculous number of reviews, and thus, in a way, have a more diverse array of insights than many who have only heard them on one system. I do enjoy discussing them, and this is also an appreciation thread, so it isn't _too_ out of place. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


crashem said:


> Was trying to explain to my wife the argument happening in this thread.  Explained that the Abyss kind of looked like medieval torture device.  Was looking for images on thread to show her picture of it on someone.  Realized there are surprisingly few pictures of the Abyss being worn and many more of the headphones on their own or parts of it.  Btw, when to Abyss website first and even worse there with parts of the Abyss in various shots so I guess JPS knows looks aren't the Abyss' strong suit.


 
  
 I have hundreds of Abyss photos on my hard drive. ^_^
  
 Here is something funny from another thread:
  


tom yum goong said:


> I think if the Abyss could file a restraining order against you, it would have done that a long time ago. Stalker.


 
  


music alchemist said:


> I'm not a stalker, I swear!


 
  


scolaiw said:


> Your wife is actually willing to listen to you talk about $5000 headphones?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Headphone wife is best wife. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Haha, I mentioned expensive headphones like these to a close female friend and she thought I was insane.
  


crashem said:


> Actually, she turned on the vacuum at one point in the "conversation."  We recently had baby.  Hence we are up at all hours and my enthusiasm in headphone equipment is at all time highs.  Baby=No More Speakers.  As for the price, didn't really go into the exact price but she has gotten enough jewelry recently that she should be okay with it, but why risk it


 
  
 You may be better off with closed-back headphones at this point. Otherwise, everyone around you will hear your music.
  


scolaiw said:


> I don't know why people dislike their looks so much though. I actually don't mind them at all. Looks very steampunk and industrial to me (and as a result, gives off an indestructible vibe). I'm more concerned about the weight and comfort for long periods of use to be perfectly honest.


 
  
 I agree about the looks. As long as you don't tilt your head, the weight and comfort doesn't seem to be much of an issue.
  


chengka7 said:


> lol, I have listened to my Abyss and HD800 through many amps. Among them are Eddie Current Balancing Act, Eddie Current 2A3MKIV, GSX-MKII, DNA stratus, Susy Dynahi, Auralic Taurus MKII, Audio-gd master 9. I have to say in terms of scalability, HD800 really destroys Abyss in every way. Abyss is not like the phone that requires absolutely best amp to sound its best. However, with the right amp, like Eddie Current Balancing Act and 2A3MKIV, HD800 is truly a pair of remarkable headphones. It does not have the feeling of strength that Abyss provides, but it has the best imaging and precision among all the headphones I have or owned.
> 
> Regarding to the amping choice of HD800 and Abyss, my favorite is Eddie Current 2A3MKIV and balancing act. And I do not think GSX-MKII is a good choice for HD800 or Abyss. And I think even the balanced Dynahi is far better than GSX-MKII. I just had a private meet with one of my old friend who owned both GSX-MKII and Dynahi. I agreed that I was blown away by GSX-MKII when I first heard it, but then, I found Susy Dynahi is way better than GSX-MKII, but I have to say I did not give enough audition time for Dynahi, so I might be wrong. But when it comes to my Eddie Current 2A3MKIV and ECBA, man, there is no contest. 2A3MKIV and ECBA easily win. GSX-MKII is a remarkable amp for LCD's or TH900, but it just not good when paired with Abyss and HD800.
> 
> This is just my 2 cents, and I would like to say there is really hard to tell which one is absolutely the best when you are comparing those TOTL headphones. Just pick the one you like, and there is no point to defend them or attack them I think, especially when you are not even considering buying one. I also think HD650 is absolutely one of the best headphone I have ever owned. I like HD650 even more than LCD-2 and LCD-X.


 
  
 Thanks for your amp impressions. What did you enjoy about the "better" amps? Some people prefer a more colored sound. Regarding HD 800 amp pairings, a few people I talked to (one who doesn't like Eddie Current amps) liked the GS-X mk2 more than anything else for its transparency and neutrality.
  


up late said:


> so you keep saying. i got past the look once I heard them. cans tend to look pretty ridiculous on most folks imo.


 
  

  


audio jester said:


> Maybe we are missing something here. The design of the Abyss seems to be very focused on utility, as some have mentioned its ability to conform to a required shape, but there is the aspect that creating something very polarizing through aesthetics generates market awareness and drives conversations like the one currently in this thread. Personally I see this as a calculated decision and I feel it was a smart one.
> 
> K1000,Jecklin Float... It's hard to forget a Frankenstein.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This type of provocative marketing is genius, in my book.
  


kiats said:


> Sorry to hear that. But do have a listen. Between the SR09 and the Abyss, I frankly feel that they are complementary in their sigs. Which is why the SR09 is in my sights.


 
  
 That's what most people who've heard both think!
  


kurochin said:


> You forgot the TakeT H2+
> Fwiw, I'm a fan of the TakeT and the Abyss' sound. K1000, not so much. Never tried the Freckin Float before though.
> 
> Helmet + Abyss = FrankenStig!!
> Wonder how fast the Abyss will lap the Top Gear track.


 
  
 I think the TakeT H2+ looks really cool too! Like parts from cars and space ships.
  


david1961 said:


> I'll do that, but I'll have to rely on my friend taking me to the place he got to hear them because after a serious motorcycle accident I no longer drive.


 
  


up late said:


> sorry to hear that man. do you still have your helmet? maybe you can put it on over the abyss to avoid embarrassment.


 
  


david1961 said:


> The accident I had was 18 years ago to which I've not fully recovered from, and probably never will.
> I had to get rid of the helmet because it couldn't be used anymore, I owe a lot to that helmet because apparently it saved my life, it was an Arai.
> 
> Luckily my hearing wasn't damaged which is why I'm able to use headphones which gives me a lot of enjoyment.


 
  
 I'm so sorry to hear about the accident - but you could always use the Abyss _as_ a helmet! (Just kidding, of course.)


----------



## up late

reading a ton of reviews is no substitute for hearing it yourself. if you're seriously thinking about forking out 6k for a headphone you'd be wise to try and audition it first. and appreciation threads are usually for posts from folks who own the gear or have had first hand experience with it - just sayin'.


----------



## Music Alchemist

up late said:


> reading a ton of reviews is no substitute for hearing it yourself. if your seriously thinking about forking out 6k for a headphone you'd be wise to try and audition it first. just saying.


 
  
 That's a given.


----------



## chengka7

lol, You should have a listen on those Eddie current Top of the line amp, I would not say GSX mkii is not good. Just it is indeed not as good as EC2A3MKIV and ECBA. I did not even mention EC445 and laviathan since I have not yet heard them. I thought GSX mkii is really good until I heard it last week. 2A3MKIV destroys GSX-MKII in almost every way. And I never think Eddie Current is colored or lush sounding. It is also very neutral and very transparent, also very fast and open sounding.

But everyone has his own taste, this is just my 2 cents.


----------



## David1961

music alchemist said:


> > you could always use the Abyss _as_ a helmet! (Just kidding, of course.)


 
  
 I wouldn't need to use the Abyss as a helmet, because with my bald head some might think I've a helmet on all the time.


----------



## up late

@ music alchemist - looking forward to *your* impressions


----------



## chengka7

BTW, someone will sell his GSX mkii to me and I might be able to have a better comparison later.


----------



## up late

david1961 said:


> I wouldn't need to use the Abyss as a helmet, because with my bald head some might think I've a helmet on all the time. :confused_face_2:




then make sure you post that selfie man


----------



## Kiats

david1961 said:


> I wouldn't need to use the Abyss as a helmet, because with my bald head some might think I've a helmet on all the time. :confused_face_2:




Hmmm... A crash helmet was how we used to describe one of our friend's hairdo in college.... ;p


----------



## Music Alchemist

chengka7 said:


> lol, You should have a listen on those Eddie current Top of the line amp, I would not say GSX mkii is not good. Just it is indeed not as good as EC2A3MKIV and ECBA. I did not even mention EC445 and laviathan since I have not yet heard them. I thought GSX mkii is really good until I heard it last week. 2A3MKIV destroys GSX-MKII in almost every way. And I never think Eddie Current is colored or lush sounding. It is also very neutral and very transparent, also very fast and open sounding.
> 
> But everyone has his own taste, this is just my 2 cents.


 
  
 I was wondering what you enjoyed more about them specifically, though. "Better" is hardly a description, and this is one perception out of many. I know of others who like the GS-X mk2 much more than the ECBA and so on. I haven't researched the 2A3 much, but am interested in hearing all these amps somewhere along the line.
  


up late said:


> @ music alchemist - looking forward to *your* impressions


 
  
 Ohhh yeahhh!
  
 Call me crazy, but my goal is to get a $20K+ Abyss setup before the year ends. At that point, I would be able to afford many other systems and publish detailed comparisons.


----------



## chengka7

The soundstage is so much wider on 2A3mkiv and also more detailed. It also provider darker background. ECBA and 2A3MKiv are the amp that can fully unlock the bass potential of hd800. And Eddie Current is super fast sounding which is what I like. Regarding to the transparency I think they are on par with GSX. I really do not want to go into details since different people have different opinions.


----------



## Music Alchemist

chengka7 said:


> The soundstage is so much wider on 2A3mkiv and also more detailed. It also provider darker background. ECBA and 2A3MKiv are the amp that can fully unlock the bass potential of hd800. And Eddie Current is super fast sounding which is what I like. Regarding to the transparency I think they are on par with GSX. I really do not want to go into details since different people have different opinions.


 
  
 Fair enough. Thanks for the additional info.
  
 What are your favorite amps for the Abyss? I will most likely get the Woo Audio WA234 MONO. (I know it's overkill.)


----------



## up late

music alchemist said:


> Ohhh yeahhh!
> 
> Call me crazy, but my goal is to get a $20K+ Abyss setup before the year ends. At that point, I would be able to afford many other systems and publish detailed comparisons.


 

well this is summit fi so that's not unusual i guess. make sure you post your impressions here once you get it but maybe you could curb your enthusiasm until then eh? just thinking of other folks who might come to this thread looking for first hand impressions and not wanting to have to trawl through a really long thread to find them. there can be a lot of noise in these threads that can drown out some valuable impressions.


----------



## chengka7

why? why WOO Mono, I like woo audio a lot, but not its WA234. If you buy them, it is not overkill, it is overpriced. I heard them so many times, and never impressed. And if you plan to spend 20K, then DAC is more important than Amp, i would rather spend 15k on DAC and 5K on amp.


----------



## Music Alchemist

up late said:


> well this is summit fi so that's not unusual i guess. make sure you post your impressions here once you get it but maybe you could curb your enthusiasm until then eh? just thinking of other folks who might come to this thread looking for first hand impressions and not wanting to have to trawl through a really long thread to find them.


 
  
 I'll be sure to share all my thoughts - especially concerning combinations of all the gear I will inevitably collect and experiment with. (That's why I call myself the Music Alchemist!)
  
 I only started posting in this thread recently, so anyone reading it from beginning to end wouldn't see my posts until after a long night of reading.


----------



## up late

nothing personal but that's kinda the point i'm trying to make. if you keep posting at this rate without having heard them then folks will have to wade through a lot of posts before getting to a first hand impression which can get frustrating. anyways it's up to you.


----------



## Music Alchemist

chengka7 said:


> why? why WOO Mono, I like woo audio a lot, but not its WA234. If you buy them, it is not overkill, it is overpriced. I heard them so many times, and never impressed. And if you plan to spend 20K, then DAC is more important than Amp, i would rather spend 15k on DAC and 5K on amp.


 
  
 Plenty of others were extremely impressed by the 234 - and a few said that it was the only amp they enjoyed the Abyss on.
  
 $20K+ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Check out my wish list and you'll see that I have every intention of getting quality DACs.


----------



## Music Alchemist

up late said:


> nothing personal but that's kinda the point i'm trying to make. if you keep posting at this rate about these cans without having heard them then folks will have to wade through a lot of posts before getting to a first hand impression which can get frustrating. anyways it's up to you.


 
  
 I know what you mean, but I try and reply to posts I have something to say about.
  
 It would be nice if everyone posted their reviews in the actual review section for each product as well, which would be so much simpler than having to read through endless threads to find the info you seek.


----------



## up late

reviews and impressions can be different things. impressions threads are fine when folks don't go off-topic or confuse it with their facebook page/blog.


----------



## Music Alchemist

up late said:


> reviews and impressions can be different things. impressions threads are fine when folks don't go off-topic or confuse it with their facebook page/blog.


 
  
 Yes, yes, but reviews are more or less fleshed-out impressions. What I meant was that I wish you could simply click on one page and have a collection of everyone's thoughts on a product. That would be impossible, though.


----------



## up late

usually more than less. anyways i'm now guilty of posting too much and off-topic. i'll leave you to it.


----------



## Audio Jester

chengka7 What were your impressions of the Master 9 with the Abyss? Thanks.


----------



## Mortalcoil

music alchemist said:


> Plenty of others were extremely impressed by the 234 - and a few said that it was the only amp they enjoyed the Abyss on.
> 
> $20K+
> 
> ...


 

  Kudos Music Alchemist in shooting for the top.  I hope you obtain your lofty audio goals.
  
  I do however see in my crystal ball lots of overtime in your future


----------



## Music Alchemist

mortalcoil said:


> Kudos Music Alchemist in shooting for the top.  I hope you obtain your lofty audio goals.
> I do however see in my crystal ball lots of overtime in your future


 
  
 Thanks! I definitely need to get serious...
  
 By the way, did you check out those artists I recommended to you earlier?


----------



## chengka7

I would say master 9 is a very good pairing but I could not remember the sound exactly, I cant give you any valuable impression. I remembered the bass of abyss is really good on master 9.


----------



## Mortalcoil

music alchemist said:


> Thanks! I definitely need to get serious...
> 
> By the way, did you check out those artists I recommended to you earlier?


 

  Still on my to do list.  Will definitely look into it though.


----------



## Audio Jester

chengka7 said:


> I would say master 9 is a very good pairing but I could not remember the sound exactly, I cant give you any valuable impression. I remembered the bass of abyss is really good on master 9.


 Thanks!


----------



## pearljam50000

Someone here mentioned the Abyss has too much bass, does anyone else feels like that?


----------



## up late

nope. it had excellent bass imo. that someone might have been david1961 who was referring to a friend's comment.


----------



## Kiats

pearljam50000 said:


> Someone here mentioned the Abyss has too much bass, does anyone else feels like that?




Not here either.


----------



## pearljam50000

Can anyone compare the Abyss' bass to HD800's bass?
I only auditioned the HD800, so i wonder how it compares.


----------



## David1961

up late said:


> nope. it had excellent bass imo. that someone might have been david1961 who was referring to a friend's comment.




That's what my friend told me, but I'm going to try the Abyss to find out for myself. Don't know when that'll be though ( if at all ) because the place he tried them looks to be around 250 miles away, and seeing he's the only one that might take me, I'll have to find out if he will.


----------



## Nomax

HI Guys!i think the best sounding AMP/ Partner for the ABYSS will be THIS ONE http://www.simaudio.com/en/product/37-headphone-amplifier.html

REGARDS NOMAX


----------



## Music Alchemist

nomax said:


> HI Guys!i think the best sounding AMP/ Partner for the ABYSS will be THIS ONE http://www.simaudio.com/en/product/37-headphone-amplifier.html
> 
> REGARDS NOMAX


 
  
 Which other amps have you heard the Abyss with, and what do you enjoy more about this one? Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Nomax

I have Heard my ABYSS with my luxman P700u(it Sounds Great) and was owner of that in the past and was selling my Amp
Why?i want a AMP with a build in dac

Regards NOMAX


----------



## BournePerfect

Start a blog. Damn.


----------



## David1961

My friend IanG phoned me today, and I mentioned to him about me trying the Abyss at the place he did, he told me that he's thinking of going to a Hf-Fi show in September and has invited me to go with him. Apparently there'll be a lot of headphones at this show but the show is also close the the Hi-Fi Lounge where he tried the Abyss. So in September there's a very good chance I'll get to hear the Abyss, then I'll find out for myself if it's as good as some are saying, or just Abyssmal.


----------



## Kiats

david1961 said:


> My friend IanG phoned me today, and I mentioned to him about me trying the Abyss at the place he did, he told me that he's thinking of going to a Hf-Fi show in September and has invited me to go with him. Apparently there'll be a lot of headphones at this show but the show is also close the the Hi-Fi Lounge where he tried the Abyss. So in September there's a very good chance I'll get to hear the Abyss, then I'll find out for myself if it's as good as some are saying, or just Abyssmal.




Good on you! Look forward to hearing your thoughts.


----------



## David1961

mulder01 said:


> david1961 said:
> 
> 
> > My friend IanG phoned me today, and I mentioned to him about me trying the Abyss at the place he did, he told me that he's thinking of going to a Hf-Fi show in September and has invited me to go with him. Apparently there'll be a lot of headphones at this show but the show is also close the the Hi-Fi Lounge where he tried the Abyss. So in September there's a very good chance I'll get to hear the Abyss, then I'll find out for myself if it's as good as some are saying, or just Abyssmal.
> ...




Well as been said, SQ is the most important part of any audio equipment, and the interest in me wanting to know how the Abyss compares to the 009's has got the better of me, I'm also wanting to find out for myself if the price of £4700 in the UK is justified.
Ian told me that while the SQ was good, he would not pay anymore than £500 for them, and Ian owns the 009's driven by the LL.

The way I like to hear SQ, I don't think the Abyss will better my 009's, especially with my 009's being driven by my BHSE while using the Psvane EL34PH tubes, but if I don't try them I'll never know.

Seeing how it looks like no one will post a photo of themselves wearing the Abyss, I might just have a photo taken of me wearing them and post it, then others can take the p--- and ( IMO ) see how ridiculous they look, and me wearing them.


----------



## mulder01

Wow £4700 is about US$8000.  Seems a bit excessive!  According to the currency converter it should be about £3300.
  
 But £500 also seems like a bit of an under exaggeration.  What did he amp them with?  A potato?  Oh well I guess everyone's looking for different things.  Would like to hear your thoughts next month.


----------



## David1961

mulder01 said:


> Wow £4700 is about US$8000.  Seems a bit excessive!  According to the currency converter it should be about £3300.
> 
> But £500 also seems like a bit of an under exaggeration.  What did he amp them with?  A potato?  Oh well I guess everyone's looking for different things.  Would like to hear your thoughts next month.




To what I recall £4700 was the price that was given to me by Ian, whether it's come down in price since then I don't know, but for what something costs in $'s in the US, is usually around the same cost but in £'s in the UK.
The amp being used at the place Ian heard them was a bryston, he didn't tell me what source was being used though, but he did tell me that for what he heard he wouldn't pay more than £500.
Before I mentioned Ian's name, I asked him if it would be OK for me to post on head-fi his comments and he said yes.

Obviously no one knows ( other than those that's heard it ) how my 009 / BHSE / K-01 sounds, but I'll mention the amp and source being used with the Abyss when I heard it, and give my honest opinion on how it compares to my combo I listen to quite often.


----------



## David1961

Sorry my mistake, I've just been talking with Ian and he said that when he heard the Abyss he also heard different headphones in the price range of between £500 and £1000, and he's just told me that IHO the Abyss didn't sound any better than those headphones.


----------



## Audio Jester

david1961 said:


> ... and he said that when he heard the Abyss he also heard different headphones in the price range of between £500 and £1000, and he's just told me that IHO the Abyss didn't sound any better than those headphones.


 It's statements like that which make me want to try the Abyss even more! It is quite enigmatic.


----------



## David1961

audio jester said:


> david1961 said:
> 
> 
> > ... and he said that when he heard the Abyss he also heard different headphones in the price range of between £500 and £1000, and he's just told me that IHO the Abyss didn't sound any better than those headphones.
> ...




Go for it.


----------



## superfred21

Everyone has their opinion, some audiophile considers that SR 009 is not worth 1000 euro.
 I has the abyss and SR 009 two great headph


----------



## David1961

superfred21 said:


> Everyone has their opinion, some audiophile considers that SR 009 is not worth 1000 euro.
> 
> I has the abyss and SR 009 two great headph




You're right, some will think the 009's aren't worth their price just like some won't the Abyss.
I can't say that about the Abyss because I haven't heard them yet, but my 009's with the set up I have are easily the best sounding headphones I've ever heard.

Like me, some will think that if they spend a lot on headphones or an amp or source it'll be worth the cost. 
Now with the BHSE I think it is, but when I got the Esoteric K-01 in 2011 it cost me £15,000, and because of that I thought I was getting £15,000's worth of audio equipment, it was only recently when I saw it could be got via PriceJapan for £7850 ( or around that price ) that I realised I'd actually got £7850 worth of audio gear.
I'm still thinking about seeing the K-01 at £7850 even though in the UK I've seen it for £19,995.

IMO, the K-01 is some piece of audio equipment though.


----------



## Music Alchemist

david1961 said:


> You're right, some will think the 009's aren't worth their price just like some won't the Abyss.
> I can't say that about the Abyss because I haven't heard them yet, but my 009's with the set up I have are easily the best sounding headphones I've ever heard.


 
  
 Out of curiosity, have you compared the SR-009 to the SR-007 (original model) on your BHSE? Some (but not most) prefer the latter by a wide margin, and it is also said to be a better match for the BHSE.


----------



## David1961

music alchemist said:


> Out of curiosity, have you compared the SR-009 to the SR-007 (original model) on your BHSE? Some (but not most) prefer the latter by a wide margin, and it is also said to be a better match for the BHSE.


 
  
 When you say the SR-007 original mode I'm guessing you're referring to the mk1, if so then yes.
 In 2012 I got to hear IanG's 007mk1's along with my 009's driven by my BHSE, and at the time I preferred some songs with the 007's, and some with the 009's.
 However the tubes being used at that time were the mullard's that came with the BHSE, and I was never happy with how my 009 / BHSE sounded with those tubes, the 009's sounded thin and with some of the songs in my collection the highs were painful to listen to.
 The Psvane EL34PH tubes I got changed that, I hear more body to my 009's with the most life like sound I've heard from a headphone, in fact because I don't want to be without hearing my BHSE with the PH's, I bought another quad for if or when something happens to the first quad I got.
  
 A few months ago I heard the SR-007mk2's along with my 009's again driven by the BHSE but this time using the PH tubes, and at that time the 009's were in a completely different league.
  
 While using the PH tubes, the 007mk2's sounded similar to the SR-007mk1's I once had, which at that time they were driven by the SRM-007t.
 Both the 007mk2's driven by the BHSE using PH's, and the 007mk1's driven by the SRM-007t I had sounded veiled with not much life to them, the 009 / BHSE combo using the PH's is something different.
  
 In the UK, the chances of me hearing the Abyss with a high end amp and source are quite slim, so a comparison between the Abyss and my 009 set up probably wouldn't be fair.
 Because of that I mightn't try the Abyss after all,  but even if I did get to hear the Abyss and I liked the SQ coming from them, as they look there's noway I'd buy them anyway.


----------



## Music Alchemist

david1961 said:


> When you say the SR-007 original mode I'm guessing you're referring to the mk1, if so then yes.
> In 2012 I got to hear IanG's 007mk1's along with my 009's driven by my BHSE, and at the time I preferred some songs with the 007's, and some with the 009's.
> However the tubes being used at that time were the mullard's that came with the BHSE, and I was never happy with how my 009 / BHSE sounded with those tubes, the 009's sounded thin and with some of the songs in my collection the highs were painful to listen to.
> The Psvane EL34PH tubes I got changed that, I hear more body to my 009's with the most life like sound I've heard from a headphone, in fact because I don't want to be without hearing my BHSE with the PH's, I bought another quad for if or when something happens to the first quad I got.
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, those tubes are on my wish list. I've heard great things about them.
 Once I get into the high roller lifestyle, I may bring equipment to other countries...so who knows, maybe you could hear a future Abyss system of mine someday!


----------



## David1961

A lot is said about headphones and headphones amps but very little about the source. I had the GS-Xmk2 and the headphones I used with that amp were my LCD-XC's and HD-600's, I also sometimes used my UM Miracles. After selling the GS-Xmk2 I started using my Pico Slim with the two full size headphones + CIEM with that portable amp connected to my K-01, and the SQ I get from those headphones and CIEM while using that very small amp / K-01 is very impressive, in fact I don't really miss the GS-Xmk2 but that's mainly because of my 009 / BHSE.
The point I'm getting at is my source is like a boost to the amp being used, so unless the Abyss is difficult to drive then there's a good chance it would sound very good with my Pico Slim / K-01, after all the Apple earbuds did even though at certain times there was crackling.


----------



## rdreyer

I have had good results driving the Abyss with the following:
  
 • HiFi-M8
 • Benchmark DAC1 (headphone jumpers set to 0)
 • Auralic Taurus mk2
 • ECP Audio Black Diamond
  
 The Black Diamond is my favorite, as it plays up to the strength of the Abyss in terms of openness, soundstaging, imaging and dynamics. It's also dead quiet and effortless.
  
 Much more important than amp matching is fitting the Abyss properly on one's head, especially in terms of having the pads almost gently floating against the sides. I gradually pulled the pads away from my ears, until everything clicked into place, and the soundstage opened up. It's as sensitive as placing speakers in a room. 
  
 Renaud


----------



## rdreyer

I forgot to mention the (by far) best deal for driving the Abyss: the Schiit Vali. It plays really well with the Abyss in terms of sound staging, dynamics and smoothness.


----------



## David1961

paradoxper said:


> Anyways, it sounds like David will be at a shop - which might have some 'high-end' gear. I'd hope a Mjolnir, BHA-1, Conductor would be sufficient enough to you to compare against the BHSE. Which I'm not sure again if you've heard either.




I think it was the Bryston BHA-1 that was used when Ian heard the Abyss at the Hi-Fi lounge, so if we go to that place after the Hi-Fi show then that's probably the amp I'll hear the Abyss with.
 I don't know what source will be used though and seeing I believe the source is the most important part of any audio system , IMO it will make a difference to the SQ I'll hear.
So unless the source being used is a K-01, or another source to that level, I'm still not sure if the comparison between the Abyss / BHA-1 / Source ? and 009 / BHSE / K-01 would be a fair one, but I'll give my honest thoughts after I've heard, I'll also mention the source being used.


----------



## Kiats

david1961 said:


> I think it was the Bryston BHA-1 that was used when Ian heard the Abyss at the Hi-Fi lounge, so if we go to that place after the Hi-Fi show then that's probably the amp I'll hear the Abyss with.
> I don't know what source will be used though and seeing I believe the source is the most important part of any audio system , IMO it will make a difference to the SQ I'll hear.
> So unless the source being used is a K-01, or another source to that level, I'm still not sure if the comparison between the Abyss / BHA-1 / Source ? and 009 / BHSE / K-01 would be a fair one, but I'll give my honest thoughts after I've heard, I'll also mention the source being used.




Totally agree, David1961. People do tend to overlook the source and then wonder why the same amp or headphone sounded different previously.


----------



## purrin

mulder01 said:


> purrin I was just looking at your signature and noticed this - PC > Wyrd > Modi > Mjolnir > Abyss
> Can I ask the reason you're using a $99 DAC?


 
  
 Not just an $99 DAC. A $99 weird gimzo which imparts mystical properties on the Modi.
  
 The reasons?
  

Too cheap to buy another M7/OR5.
Waiting for Yggy or possibly springing for an MSB Analog.
The Wyrd + Modi is really good for $200.


----------



## David1961

I've seen the Abyss priced at £4524 in the UK, so while not £4700 like I mentioned in one of my posts, £4524 still isn't cheap.


See I didn't mention (IMO ) how ridiculous they look. Oops, I just did.


----------



## Kiats

david1961 said:


> I've seen the Abyss priced at £4524 in the UK, so while not £4700 like I mentioned in one of my posts, £4524 still isn't cheap.
> 
> 
> See I didn't mention (IMO ) how ridiculous they look. Oops, I just did.




Hahaha! David.... ;p


----------



## alvin sawdust

The price in the UK is the more ugly aspect of the phones.


----------



## David1961

Also IMO the price of the Abyss in the UK is ugly, but there's a choice on whether to buy a pair or not.


----------



## alvin sawdust

Well if you don't buy them you won't be looking at them.


----------



## David1961

Don't have to buy a headphone to look at it.


----------



## alvin sawdust

Just don't look at it then.


----------



## SilverEars

Keep it in a box, and only take it out with eyes closed, and put in on your head.  Don't have reflective material around to you to look at it.


----------



## David1961

It's not easy to go on head-fi and not see headphones which includes the Abyss, but when I said don't have to buy a headphone to look at it I was referring to any headphone not just the Abyss.


----------



## up late

what has been seen can't be unseen


----------



## pearljam50000

The uglier the phones, the better the sound, just look at K1000, HD800, Abyss (;


----------



## David1961

I've never heard the HE-90, but some that has believe it's the best sounding headphone ever made.
 IMO that's not an ugly headphone in fact it's the best looking headphone I've ever seen.


----------



## Nomax

Yes the Design is very unique but the sound FOR ME in my opinion is much much better than the ORPHEUS(i was owner of 2 Sets in the past)in September i will get the New MOON NEO HEADPHONE AMP http://www.simaudio.com/en/product/37-headphone-amplifier.html

Impressions about THIS Dream Team will following
What Makes the ABYSS so SPECIAL FOR ME?THIS HEADPHONES combined all from my two favorite TH 900&K812


REGARDS NOMAX


----------



## SilverEars

pearljam50000 said:


> The uglier the phones, the better the sound, just look at K1000, HD800, Abyss (;


 
 Hi, I'll whip one up using coat hangers and donuts and will charge $7k.  
  
 Looks like there are some competition to my soon to be petented idea.


----------



## Guss2

david1961 said:


> I've never heard the HE-90, but some that has believe it's the best sounding headphone ever made.
> IMO that's not an ugly headphone in fact it's the best looking headphone I've ever seen.


 

 Hopefully Sennheiser can improve on the build quality issues of the HE90's in the new rumored electrostats. They are amazing phones(sound and aesthetics) but at this level they should not be so fragile.


----------



## David1961

guss2 said:


> Hopefully Sennheiser can improve on the build quality issues of the HE90's in the new rumored electrostats. They are amazing phones(sound and aesthetics) but at this level they should not be so fragile.




I've only seen the HE-90's in photos so I've obviously no idea about their build quality, but assuming Sennheiser were or are to start building stats headphones again, then the direction they've ( looks wise ) gone with the HD-800, this new stats headphone will probably look similar to the Abyss. ( IMO )


----------



## n3rdling

HE90's aren't fragile.  HE60's on the other hand...


----------



## Guss2

n3rdling said:


> HE90's aren't fragile.  HE60's on the other hand...


 

 Never owned the HE60 but the screws in my HE90's ear cup kept loosening and it would come off the headband. Had to be sent to Sennheiser for a fix but no problems since then. Fragile might not have been the proper wording but they could have used higher quality parts for sure. The flaking ear pads and headband pads at this price point are simply unacceptable and nobody in the world seems to be able to make leather parts for these headphones.


----------



## pearljam50000

Just wondering, What's the current price for an HE90 with the amp?


----------



## n3rdling

guss2 said:


> Never owned the HE60 but the screws in my HE90's ear cup kept loosening and it would come off the headband. Had to be sent to Sennheiser for a fix but no problems since then. Fragile might not have been the proper wording but they could have used higher quality parts for sure. The flaking ear pads and headband pads at this price point are simply unacceptable and nobody in the world seems to be able to make leather parts for these headphones.


 
  
 That sucks.  I never had any such problem with my sets in the past.  I agree though that the flaking pads really suck.  It's a shame too since I love those pads...they're very plush and the velour piece at contact makes them comfy year-round.  I wish I still had some old flaky earpads as I doubt it'd be that hard to take the old pleather/velour skin off and cover it in some thin leather.  Might not come out perfectly, but they'd last...
  


pearljam50000 said:


> Just wondering, What's the current price for an HE90 with the amp?


 
  
 Varies a lot but I think between $20k-30k.


----------



## ultrabike

pearljam50000 said:


> Can anyone compare the Abyss' bass to HD800's bass?
> I only auditioned the HD800, so i wonder how it compares.


 
  
 This is sort of an old question, but here is my take on it:
  
 Abyss IMO has more impact and detail in the bass area than the HD800's. I feel the HD800 offers an analytical signature. The Abyss offers a warm signature. I prefer the sound signature of the Abyss to the HD800s. Don't like how either one look and cost. Then again I don't like how Stax cans look and cost either.


----------



## Cortazar

Hi guys.
 I would like to share with you my fresh experiences with a new setup that i hear for 3 days now. My abyss HP were a 2-end system so far (the first is woo audio wes with stax sr009). I had a cavalli LiAu for a few weeks (with auralic vega as source) but i must say i was a bit disappointed. I was expecting a SQ that will make me not looking for something else. Ok the bass, dynamic, scene were there but i found that system lacking breath, detail, texture (on a very high level) compared to stax with wes. On the other hand i found my stax rag very (i mean veery ) good in terms of detail. The highs were the best i heard ever, the mids were very good too. Listening to music was something special but i knew something was lacking . This something was mass, meat call it what you want and scene. I wanted to see and feel the acoustic instruments (cello!) it was only.. very good but not perfect.
 From what i heard with abyss i knew this HP has a potential but it needs a proper amp (and a source) to let it shine.
 I am still waiting for me ED 445 and hope it will be the one and only amp , but in the meantime i bought a sun audio SV-300 BE that i hear throw hifiman adapter (speaker cable NBS monitor IV) after my friend Piotr Ryka from hifiphilosophy.com recommend me a good 300B via hifiman. And i must say this was it!
 The abyss sing! the highs shine, they are not rough anymore, scene breathes. Acoustic instruments sound as by live concert. Dynamic and bass (much better than stax with wes) are there too  (7 W are more than enough to drive abyss)
 At the moment i can hardly believe the ED 445 will sound better but i will see.
 I have to admit i did not hear LiAu with my totaldac system, so that i can directly compare this amp with sun audio but i think it is just a very good Transistor amp compared to very good 300B SET only that when sun audio drives Abyss it has not the common problems of 300B amps as 7 war are more than enough.
 And totaldac is a story for itself . It is much better as anything that i had in my system before (accuphase 75v, dcd puccini etc.) it has no digital harshness at all. It is very analog, but very detailed too, and it is very user friendly (i had all my CD's on tha NAS now ripped with Ripnas).
 At the moment i am very happy with my Abyss system. ( but i still keep my stax system as i am going to upgrade it too)
  
 Pawel

  
 Pawel


----------



## David1961

I'll be hearing the Abyss at a Hi-Fi show I'm going to on the 20th of September so I'll get to know how they sound then.
Yes the 009's aren't cheap but they've come down in price quite a lot since I got the ones I have which were from PriceJapan in 2011.
I happen to like the look of my 009's very much, not quite as much as the HE-90's, but not far off.


----------



## ultrabike

david1961 said:


> I'll be hearing the Abyss at a Hi-Fi show I'm going to on the 20th of September so I'll get to know how they sound then.
> Yes the 009's aren't cheap but they've come down in price quite a lot since I got the ones I have which were from PriceJapan in 2011.
> I happen to like the look of my 009's very much, not quite as much as the HE-90's, but not far off.


 
  
 When you get around it, note that most people (like me) have trouble getting the Abyss cans to provide perfect seal. What happens in general is that a gap develops between the cans and ones head.
  
 For electrostatic headphones, in general, seal is very important or bass will severely roll off. The Abyss seems to not require seal and in fact may sound better w/o it. So while I still don't feel the Abyss where bestest in terms of fit, just be aware that having a gap between the pads and ones head may not be as much of a problem as with electrostatic and some dynamic cans... This confused me a little at first.
  
 In terms of looks... IMO:
  
 HE-90 >> SR-009/7 > Abyss >> Lambda >>> Sigma.
  
 Prices are horrible. Well... maybe the the SR-207 is not too horrible, specially considering the SRS-2170 combo. Other than that...
  
 YMMV


----------



## David1961

My friend that's heard the Abyss to whom I'm going to the Hi-Fi show with, told me he found it awkward to get a perfect fit, but I'll find that out when the time comes.
My 009's which can be seen in my Avatar is different to most if not all other 009's. The headband is different which for me makes my 009's look amazing.


----------



## ultrabike

Yeah, fit is awkward, but don't try too hard to make them seal. It seems they sound best with the gap. Once I got that, things went a bit more smoothly for me.
  
 And just noticed you changed your 009's headband! Agree it looks better. Did the original headband broke? I know they can be a bit fragile. Justin had a broken set at a meet, and saw someone snap a Lambda at another meet. For all their butt-ugliness, the Abyss seems built like a tank... Sort of like the Frankenstein of headphones.


----------



## David1961

ultrabike said:


> Yeah, fit is awkward, but don't try too hard to make them seal. It seems they sound best with the gap. Once I got that, things went a bit more smoothly for me.
> 
> And just noticed you changed your 009's headband! Agree it looks better. Did the original headband broke? I know they can be a bit fragile. Justin had a broken set at a meet, and saw someone snap a Lambda at another meet. For all their butt-ugliness, the Abyss seems built like a tank... Sort of like the Frankenstein of headphones.




I'll try and get the fit right when I listen to them.

No there's nothing wrong with the original headband apart from me thinking it makes the 009's look stupid.
I've still got that headband for if I have to send my 009's for repairs, if something does happen I can easily put the original headband back on.


----------



## arnaud

cortazar said:


> Pawel


 
  
 Pawel, when did the totalDAC source come in the picture? Reason I ask is that when I had the D1 in my system, it definitely added meat to the bone so to speak, even with an existing DAC that is already rather solid in the bass department. If anything, that's the treble that became so much more natural / effortless that overall I felt the sound had more weight to it. Anyhow, the Abyss voicing is closer to the SR007mk1 and SR009 (so more prominent bass) so you were definitely looking for more bass / body while maintaining as much up top as possible.
  
 If you have a chance to listen to the SR009 with the TotalDAC (and possibly some other amp than the Wes), I'd be curious to hear your thoughts... The TotalDAC designer uses an SR009 BTW (along with full range horn loaded drivers. literally using the walls of the room for the driver loading lol ).
  
 Arnaud


----------



## Nomax

So i think i must say it again,you have a Gap between your head and the pads,or you have not enough fit or seal,you can BEND IN the headband!!!(For all Little heads,For Big heads BEND OUT the headband)
And then for sure you will have the most comfortable and perfekt seal&fit and you will Win every headbang Contest!!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C-v3fw-QqZU

REGARDS NOMAX


----------



## Nomax

THIS MASTERPIECE IS UNBELIEVABLE !!

NOMAX


----------



## Xecuter

Impressions from a relative noob in the audiophile world. I Own dt990, q701, dt441 - previous he-400/300 and a pile of mid tier amps
  
 I promised to post my impressions for George when I visited Addicted to Audio in Melbourne.
  
 The Abyss: It stared at me for 3 hours before I asked politely to try it. They agreed and recommended the Prateus since this thing needs copious amounts of power. I put it on, I looked totally ridiculous. I hit play on the laptop. The bass was unreal. It sounded like there was a sub behind me; the smile on my face was gone. The $2k LCD-3 sitting next to me had just turned into Beats. I was shocked, how could this sound so, so much better.
  
 OK, why am I so impressed? Aesthetically they look terrible, when you wear them they kind of just hover over your ears, the build quality looks, in all honesty, rather dodgy. The leather head band has single stitching of the name, thin straps hold the band in place, nothing on this screams mortgage your house because you need this.
  
 Except the sound, these sound better than speakers. I was telling talking to another Head-fier about how downright impressed I was and he argued that for the price you could get a great speaker set up. And he is right, but… These have the sub bass that headphones just can’t accurately reproduce, they are forgiving , musical and somehow still fantastically accurate. They are not by anyways neutral but are without a doubt the best thing I have ever heard. I have heard 500k speaker sets ups in Japan, friends who have great gear and I can appreciate good quality speakers but they lack intimacy and the subtle details we hear on headphones. The Abyss lets you hear all these tiny details but at the same time delivers an impossibly wide sound stage for headphones whilst still sounding musical.
  
 These would be my ultimate headphones. They sounded sublime with modern music; they were crisp and detailed but still remained musical and lush. The bass, was just phenomenal, I put on some EDM and made my skin crawl, I put on female vocals (the track has heavy sibilance throughout) her voice was surreal, it sounded like she was standing 6 feet in front of me, the sibilance was somehow less noticeable and as soon as the guitar came through again it’s all I could focus on.
  
 These were so much better than the Audeze, Hifiman, Fostex, Ultrasone and Grado offerings it was silly. Yes you are looking at least 6-7k with the Abyss + Lyr + DAC, but if you like musical headphones and are looking for the holy grail of musical enjoyment. This is it.
  
 They are not twice as good as the lcd-3, but they are significantly better, and that to me in the audiophile world speaks volumes.
  
 I did some other impressions as well and posted them to reddit: http://redd.it/2dig7i
  
 However I was very nervous to post here given some of the unpleasantness that seems to follow amateur reviews.


----------



## wink

So, Nomax, what happened to all your AKG K812's...?


----------



## Nomax

So i have three K812 and i love it but JOE'S AB 1266 is a other LEAGUE! i own a lot of headphones and was owner of two ORPHEUS SETS in the past(8 years ago)but the AB1266 is a BIG STEP over SENNHEISER&SR 009!!!

And erverbody of the REAL OWNERS of the ABYSS know what i mean!

And in terms BUILD &SOUND QUALITY the AB 1266 is so unique and will Be for a Long Time invinsible

REGARDS NOMAX


----------



## David1961

nomax said:


> So i have three K812 and i love it but JOE'S AB 1266 is a other LEAGUE! i own a lot of headphones and was owner of two ORPHEUS SETS in the past(8 years ago)but the AB1266 is a BIG STEP over SENNHEISER&SR 009!!!
> 
> And erverbody of the REAL OWNERS of the ABYSS know what i mean!
> 
> ...




What amp was being used when you heard the 009's Normax ?


----------



## mulder01

xecuter said:


> Impressions from a relative noob in the audiophile world. I Own dt990, q701, dt441 - previous he-400/300 and a pile of mid tier amps
> 
> I promised to post my impressions for George when I visited Addicted to Audio in Melbourne.
> 
> ...


 
 I like your review.  But I'm a bit of an amateur myself.  
 Are you saying you were _that_ impressed by listening to them through a $699 amp?  
 And I don't suppose you compared them to the HD800's did you?  I know one member in particular that would like a direct comparison...


----------



## Xecuter

No, I was impressed by the sheer sound of them, I only used them out of the Prateus so I could not compare them across different amps. I was advised that neither the wa22 or the Burson conductor would do a 'great' job of driving them.
  
 Sadly I didn't compare them to the HD800, I know I wouldn't be a big fan of the HD800 as I am not a fan of neutral, high detailed headphones. I just don't find them musical, and so much of todays music is mastered so badly I would only be able to tolerate such a small amount of music.
  
 My review here: http://redd.it/2dig7i
 goes through impressions of the he-560, LCD-2.2, 3 and a whole range of other flag ships. I won't post the whole thing to head-fi, as I have some mean stuff to say about the th-900, he560 and their are A LOT of fanboy/fanatics here.


----------



## mulder01

Ah ok.  I did read your review in the link you posted.  Just wondering what you mean when you said this then:
  
 Quote:


xecuter said:


> Yes you are looking at least 6-7k with the Abyss + Lyr + DAC, but if you like musical headphones and are looking for the holy grail of musical enjoyment. This is it.


----------



## Currawong

I enjoyed reading your impressions. I sometimes think the best impressions are from people who are "new" to the hobby, or otherwise very experienced. In between things tend to get more confused. Comparisons can be as troubling as they are enlightening sometimes.


----------



## Xecuter

Oh sorry, when I asked what would be the bare minimum for an amp for the Abyss, they suggested the lyr as a budget option to drive the Abyss.


----------



## up late

yeah the abyss is a great sounding can. agree that it isn't stylish but the build quality is high imo. 

read your other review and tho i own the th900 i'm no fanboy. that said i couldn't disagree more with your impression. it also surpasses the abyss for deep bass.


----------



## Xecuter

I had them side by side and would prefer my dt990's to the th900. I was so excited to listen to them too!. But side by side with the other phones on hand. I was very disappointed. I'll definitely give them another try when I'm shopping for end game closed phones though!
  
 Thanks for reading my review!


----------



## up late

the th900 is generally highly regarded and with good reason i think but to each his own. happy shopping!


----------



## dBel84

I sent my AB1266 out on a joy ride for a few months and I can tell you that I really missed them. I sent out all my modern orthos and eventhough the vintage stock I have are pretty incredible, it is good to have the LCD3 and Abyss back again. The AB1266 just has a realism to the way it presents music that I have to remind myself not to look around for the source of the sound. One of the people who spent some time with them actually bought a pair himself which I think says a lot more than any review. He is still fundamentally a stat guy but he sees the value in owning both the SR009 and AB1266. I personally have no need for the SR009   but I do appreciate it's sound. 
  
 ..dB


----------



## David1961

I keep seeing posts about how well the Abyss sounds but very little about the source being used or even the amp. 
Unless the Abyss is a miracle headphone, then without the source and amp there'll be no sound whatsoever.


----------



## mulder01

Pretty much everyone has said what amp they are using haven't they?
  
 To be honest I can see how the DAC will make a bit of difference but the source, I don't really understand why that matters.  Doesn't 95% of everyone's music come from CD's?


----------



## David1961

And there's me thinking the source is the most important piece in an audio set up. Oh well it goes to show how very little I know.


----------



## Xecuter

Your souce can easily be your limiting factor.. for instance if you're using Youtube steamed videos from your pc, it does't matter what crazy amp/dac/headphones you have. It will sound crap.


----------



## David1961

mulder01 said:


> To be honest I can see how the DAC will make a bit of difference but the source, I don't really understand why that matters.




What I can't understand then, is when listening to my CD's with my source, why the SQ is so good even from my HD-600 with my Pico Slim while using that SACD / DAC. Or maybe I can. :confused_face_2:


----------



## up late

it's kind of a chicken and egg thang. personally i put more importance on the cans than the source. same goes for speakers.


----------



## David1961

up late said:


> it's kind of a chicken and egg thang. personally i put more importance on the cans than the source. same goes for speakers.




All have their importance, but my thought is the source comes first, then the amp, and then the headphones.
Also ( IMO ) how the music's recorded makes a big difference to the SQ heard.


----------



## up late

doesn't matter how well the music's recorded if you can't hear it.  it's a matter of opinion but i've noticed that swapping cans (and speakers) makes the biggest difference to what i'm hearing compared to swapping other components in the signal chain.


----------



## ultrabike

​


david1961 said:


> All have their importance, but my thought is the source comes first, then the amp, and then the headphones.
> Also ( IMO ) how the music's recorded makes a big difference to the SQ heard.




Dunno man, have used my HD600's directly out of my craptop's headphone out and they still sound like HD600's... Somewhat underpowered, loose, and unrefined... But not too bad.

Now try using a pair of United Airlines free-cans out of your Pico, or for that matter any Dyna-low/mid/high, B22, O2, or whatever...

The cans matter... A lot IMO. The Abyss deliver. Expensive n ugly? Perhaps. Depends on ones sense of fashion. Mod the headband then. They do sound good tho.


----------



## David1961

Myself, astrostar59, and IanG went to a Hi-Fi show a couple of months ago, and one of the speaker systems we listened to, we did twice at a different time of the day. 
The first time a turntable was being used with a SS power amp, but the second time the source had been changed to a CD player and the amp was a tube one. 
Both times the same speakers were being used, and from both source/amp the sound was completely different.


P.S. Out of the Turntable/SS amp and CD player/ Tube amp, I much preferred the SQ when the CD player/Tube amp were being used.


----------



## up late

sure but how much more different might it have been if you swapped speakers?


----------



## ultrabike

david1961 said:


> Myself, astrostar59, and IanG went to a Hi-Fi show a couple of months ago, and one of the speaker systems we listened to, we did twice at a different time of the day.
> The first time a turntable was being used with a SS power amp, but the second time the source had been changed to a CD player and the amp was a tube one.
> Both times the same speakers were being used, and from both source/amp the sound was completely different.
> 
> ...




Going from vinyl to a CD may mean completely different mastering with all sorts of different processing involved. That can make a huge difference. A turntable may need some compensation as well. 

A tube amp vs an SS can also make a big difference as well.

I understand what you r saying. However, I wouldn't say headphone matter least. Specially considering the equipment that you list in your profile.

I can also say that I went to a few "hi fi" shows, and in some setups there was proly no source and/or amp that would save the craptastic sound of some speakers. Maybe some heavy eqing... But sometimes not even that. May be the rooms where inappropriate, but man!

Abyss sound like good speakers...


----------



## David1961

up late said:


> sure but how much more different might it have been if you swapped speakers?


 
  
 I don't know, but enjoy listening to headphones more anyway to which there were some headphones at that show.


----------



## up late

cans are cool. getting hung up on these kinds. of debates just gets in the way of enjoying them.


----------



## David1961

ultrabike said:


> ​
> Dunno man, have used my HD600's directly out of my craptop's headphone out and they still sound like HD600's... Somewhat underpowered, loose, and unrefined... But not too bad.
> 
> Now try using a pair of United Airlines free-cans out of your Pico, or for that matter any Dyna-low/mid/high, B22, O2, or whatever...
> ...




Well man, of course the better quality of headphone should result in a better SQ, and between the HD-600 and LCD-XC I have it does, to my hearing the LCD-XC sounds the better of the two. 
This is via the Pico Slim though, so I wonder how the Abyss would sound with that portable amp.

If I was able to put the headband I did with my 009 and LCD-XC on the Abyss, to me it would make them look better, but looking at the Abyss I don't think it would be possible, but there's no way I'd spend £4524 to find out.


----------



## mulder01

I didn't mean to start a debate, but I probably didn't explain what I meant very well either.
  
 What I meant was, if 90% of people's music comes from CD's which are a digital file, that file is an exact 1:1 copy if you rip it to a computer as an uncompressed .wav file.  If you then copy that file to a portable digital device, then it is an exact copy again.  If it's a digital file then there are no losses and computers don't just make mistakes.
  
 I personally have all my CDs ripped as .wav files on my ipod classic and run the LOD connector to an Algorhythm Solo, which has a digital coaxial out on it if I choose to use it.  What I'm saying is, if you use a  $200 ipod classic with uncompressed files and some sort of iTransport device, or a computer, or a $3000 CD transport only, or the digital output of an AK240, or a $500 ipad, when the data reaches the DAC, it should be bit-for-bit identical regardless of what the file is stored on.  When computer processors are coming out as 64bit processors measured in gigahertz, (000,000,000's of hz) and a CD only needs to be processed at 16bit 44100hz, even the most primitive processor you can imagine should be able to transmit that amount of data without errors.  That's what I was trying to say, in terms of digital sources anyway.
  
 However it looks like you're using a fancy pants CD player with the DAC built in which you're calling the source so I can understand how that would be better than, say, an ipod's analogue output playing 128k MP3's.  You're then comparing a 4 figure DAC to a 4 dollar DAC.  And uncompressed files with heavily compressed files so I can agree with you if that's what you're saying.  In all the pictures I've seen most people are trying the Abyss with a laptop a a source with a separate DAC.  You're right though, often the DAC isn't mentioned.
  
 I couldn't disagree with you more though about your order of importance of gear.  I think the further downstream you get the more important it is.  Obviously if you start with a rubbish source file like an mp3 ripped off youtube, by the time you get to the end of the stream, you'll have a really accurate, really perfect representation of rubbish.  But given that CD's really aren't a super high bitrate and most CD's that come out don't even use the CD format to it's potential, a source that can relay this level of detail isn't that hard to get.  Any day of the week I guarantee a $7000 headphone running out of a $5000 amp running out of a $1000 DAC running out of a $500 ipad is going to sound infinitely better than a pair of $500 headphones running out of a $1000 amp running out of a $5000 DAC running out of a $7000 CD transport.


----------



## up late

just think that when you've got some dude saying that the source is the most important part of the signal chain and another dude saying it's the amp and then another saying it's the speakers well that's an argument no one can win. it's just folks placing more importance on one essential part of the signal chain than another based on personal belief instead of facts. just seems kinda pointless to me tbh.


----------



## David1961

I think when I go to that Hi-Fi show and get to hear the Abyss, I'm going to take my Pico Slim / iPod and see how the Abyss sounds with that portable combo.


----------



## up late

hopefully you'll take an open mind with you too


----------



## David1961

Well see, I know how my HD-600, LCD-XC and UM Miracle sound while using my Pico Slim / iPod, but I also know how they sound when using them with my Pico Slim / K-01. So taking my Pico Slim / iPod to that Hi-Fi show and hearing the Abyss with that combo, might give me some idea on how the Abyss would sound from the Pico Slim / K-01.


----------



## alvin sawdust

up late said:


> hopefully you'll take an open mind with you too


 
 Ha ha an open mind, he's a Yorkshireman!


----------



## Eide

I live in Norway, and here the Abyss costs 8.900$. I'v heard them, and I love them. But I never thought I would buy them. Until I got a phone from my dealer today. They said that the Abyss was too expencieve for them to just have in their inventory, so they wanted to send it back to the importer. Unless I would buy it to a "sort of" non-profit price of 6.400$. That is still expencieve, but I will save a huge chunk of cash (and still get 5 years warranty as we do on all such products in Norway).

The thing is, I don't have money for an expensive amp as well. I have the Chord Hugo, and I will do a test tomorrow on how it sounds. If it's ok while I save up for a Taurus (or better). But perhaps some of you have a tip for a really cheap, but good and powerful amp I can buy (while saving for something better)?


----------



## rudi0504

eide said:


> I live in Norway, and here the Abyss costs 8.900$. I'v heard them, and I love them. But I never thought I would buy them. Until I got a phone from my dealer today. They said that the Abyss was too expencieve for them to just have in their inventory, so they wanted to send it back to the importer. Unless I would buy it to a "sort of" non-profit price of 6.400$. That is still expencieve, but I will save a huge chunk of cash (and still get 5 years warranty as we do on all such products in Norway).
> 
> The thing is, I don't have money for an expensive amp as well. I have the Chord Hugo, and I will do a test tomorrow on how it sounds. If it's ok while I save up for a Taurus (or better). But perhaps some of you have a tip for a really cheap, but good and powerful amp I can buy (while saving for something better)?




WOOOW it is almost double the price 
If you have the Hugo , it is very good pair with abyss 
If you like portable amp that really very good to pair with Abyss , than please buy
Bakoon HDA 5520 .
My best desktop amp is Mass Ko Bo 394 

Chord Hugo + AK 240 



Bakoon Amp HDA 5520 




Mass Ko Bo 394


----------



## David1961

alvin sawdust said:


> up late said:
> 
> 
> > hopefully you'll take an open mind with you too
> ...




And a proud one at that, so you can say anything about me, apart from that is making remarks on where I'm from.


----------



## alvin sawdust

Oh yeah I forgot, no sense of humour too.


----------



## David1961

alvin sawdust said:


> Oh yeah I forgot, no sense of humour too.




I've plenty of sense of humour, but when going on headphone forums I prefer to write about audio gear rather than try and insult anyone.
I do pull down the look of audio gear and that I wouldn't want to be seen wearing certain headphones, but I never write anything about where someone's from.


----------



## froger

up late said:


> just think that when you've got some dude saying that the source is the most important part of the signal chain and another dude saying it's the amp and then another saying it's the speakers well that's an argument no one can win. it's just folks placing more importance on one essential part of the signal chain than another based on personal belief instead of facts. just seems kinda pointless to me tbh.



Agreed! The chain is only as strong as its weakest link


----------



## Kiats

froger said:


> Agreed! The chain is only as strong as its weakest link




+1


----------



## alvin sawdust

david1961 said:


> I've plenty of sense of humour, but when going on headphone forums I prefer to write about audio gear rather than try and insult anyone.
> I do pull down the look of audio gear and that I wouldn't want to be seen wearing certain headphones, but I never write anything about where someone's from.


 
 Oh dear.


----------



## mulder01

david1961 said:


> I think when I go to that Hi-Fi show and get to hear the Abyss, I'm going to take my Pico Slim / iPod and see how the Abyss sounds with that portable combo.


 
  
 Do you think that's a fair comparison to the Stax setup you're running?  It kinda sounds like you want to hate them just so you can say 'I told you so'
  
 Surely if there is a hifi show with the Abyss, they will have a suitable amp for you to use.  If you have a portable digital source I'd imagine they'll have a DAC too.  With the pico slim you're using the on board dac of the ipod and you yourself said having a good source to begin with is the most important thing.  It's a fair comparison to the other flagships you mentioned running off the pico slim, but it's far from 'comparing apples with apples' in regard to your 009 setup.


----------



## up late

you'd think that the abyss should be hooked up to a decent rig at the show so he won't have to reach for his pico slim/ipod


----------



## David1961

mulder01 said:


> david1961 said:
> 
> 
> > I think when I go to that Hi-Fi show and get to hear the Abyss, I'm going to take my Pico Slim / iPod and see how the Abyss sounds with that portable combo.
> ...


 
  
 I've explained in my post 1439 the reason why I'm thinking on taking my Pico Slim / iPod to try the Abyss with, which will have nothing to do with the comparison with my 009 / BHSE, that comparison will be with whatever the amp and source is used with the Abyss at that show.


----------



## Articnoise

david1961 said:


> Well see, I know how my HD-600, LCD-XC and UM Miracle sound while using my Pico Slim / iPod, but I also know how they sound when using them with my Pico Slim / K-01. So taking my Pico Slim / iPod to that Hi-Fi show and hearing the Abyss with that combo, might give me some idea on how the Abyss would sound from the Pico Slim / K-01.


 

 This type of compeer is only valid if you think that the difference in efficiency doesn’t matter for Abyss (85 dB/1mW) and the more efficiency HD-600, LCD-XC and UM Miracle or that a headphone with a more reviling nature will benefit to a higher degree from a really good amp, dac and cables. 
  
 My 2 cent on this.


----------



## David1961

articnoise said:


> david1961 said:
> 
> 
> > Well see, I know how my HD-600, LCD-XC and UM Miracle sound while using my Pico Slim / iPod, but I also know how they sound when using them with my Pico Slim / K-01. So taking my Pico Slim / iPod to that Hi-Fi show and hearing the Abyss with that combo, might give me some idea on how the Abyss would sound from the Pico Slim / K-01.
> ...




For a £4524 headphone which I've seen the Abyss at in the UK, it should sound amazing with any amp / source combo.


----------



## snormal

Then I humbly suggest you could considerably let go your bhse under your super theory since the 009 is about the same price as the Abyss...


----------



## Articnoise

david1961 said:


> For a £4524 headphone which I've seen the Abyss at in the UK, it should sound amazing with any amp / source combo.


 

 Hahaha is this the case with all expansive headphones like Stax 009?


----------



## David1961

snormal said:


> Then I humbly suggest you could considerably let go your bhse under your super theory since the 009 is about the same price as the Abyss...




The SR-009's can be got for $3,312, and to use with the 009's from the same place a Stax SRM-006tS can be got for $941. 

I've seen the Abyss at $5,495 just for the headphone alone.

I don't know why I'm getting into this argument because there's no way I'll ever get the Abyss, I'm just wondering how they sound.


----------



## mulder01

I said the same thing before I heard them and so did many other people.  Hopefully you absoltuely love them and you can see where everyone else is coming from.  You're a smart man - you'll make up a new headband for them.


----------



## David1961

I'm not knocking the SQ of the Abyss because I've never heard it, and reading the post of some that has I'm sure I will enjoy how it sounds come 20th September, but some that have seen some of the posts I've written will know I'm wanting looks as well as SQ, and the Abyss just doesn't appeal to me in the looks department.
So even if I find the Abyss sounds better than the 009's, I still wouldn't get one, now if the designer of the Abyss was to come out with an Abyss 2 that sounded like the Abyss ( assuming I like the SQ ) but looked like the HE-90 then that would be a different matter. 
However, it still would be sometime away because while I've the money to get that imaginary Abyss 2, that money is to get my home improved, and I'm having my Kitchen and Conservatory altered amongst other thing which will take quite sometime.


----------



## up late

we know, we know. 20 sep can't come quickly enough.


----------



## David1961

up late said:


> we know, we know. 20 sep can't come quickly enough.




You make it sound like I've posted that date several times when I believe I've mentioned it twice. 

Hearing the Abyss will only be a small part of the audio gear I'll hear that day so to be honest I'm not that bothered about hearing those headphones, I'm just wanting to know what all the fuss is about.


----------



## up late

nope. not the date.


----------



## David1961

I see, I'll not write anything else on this thread, even after I've heard the Abyss assuming I try them. 
And don't say I've said that before about not writing on this thread because this time I won't.


----------



## up late

that sounds petulant tbh. your impressions are welcome here but it's up to you.


----------



## mulder01

Dude, he's just saying stop telling everyone how ugly you think they are and how much you won't like them when you have never even heard them.  You are like the exact opposite of Music Alchemist who kept posting about how awesome they were and how much they liked them without hearing them.  They sure are a polarizing headphone.


----------



## David1961

It's true Dude, that I mightn't like the sound from the Abyss, but that's only from what IanG that's heard them told me, he said they have a strong bass to which I'm not a fan of, but until I find out for myself I won't know.
 I'll stop saying how ugly they are because it's down to the individual, but because I'm a keen headphone listener, I'd like to give my thoughts on how they sound after I've heard them.

P.S. I know, I've ended up writing a post on this tread again when I said I wouldn't .


----------



## mulder01

You're allowed to post!  ...Just not about their looks


----------



## David1961

mulder01 said:


> You're allowed to post!  ...Just not about their looks




I've said in my last post that I'll stop mentioning about it's looks.


----------



## up late

good move. look forward to reading your post *after* you've given the abyss a try.


----------



## Xecuter

Just a quick note, I had the pleasure of chatting to someone who had discussed the Abyss with Joe Skubinski, one of the creators.
  
 He was told that the drivers in the Abyss cost more than $2000 (The LCD-3) and that it takes 5 days to machine the housing. 
  
 I hope this puts into perspective the price for a lot of people. You are buying something that simply cannot be sold for much less than 5.5k. I trully don't think there will be a substantial price drop like we saw with the Cavalli Liquid Gold ever with this product.


----------



## mulder01

I'd like to see a 'making of' video.  They normally justify the cost of things a bit better (to me anyway) once you see how much work goes into the making of something.
  
 I don't believe it should take 5 days to machine a housing though.  Some CNC machines can make an engine block in one day so I don't know what's going on there.


----------



## Cortazar

Have any of you experiances in driving abyss with a speaker amp via speaker terminal, like many do with Hifiman HE-6? I mean specificaly weak tubes like 300B or 2a3? Though abyss sound very good with hifiman adapter i have heard that such a solution degraduates the soundquality.
  
 Pawel


----------



## bmichels

david1961 said:


> ... if the designer of the Abyss was to come out with an Abyss 2 that sounded like the Abyss ( assuming I like the SQ ) but looked like the HE-90 then that would be a different matter.


 
  
 +1
  
  
 Quote:


mulder01 said:


> I don't believe it should take 5 days to machine a housing though.  Some CNC machines can make an engine block in one day so I don't know what's going on there.


 
  
 +1


----------



## bmichels

david1961 said:


> My 009's which can be seen in my Avatar is different to most if not all other 009's. The headband is different which for me makes my 009's look amazing.


 
  
 Can you show us some big picture if it please ?   Which Headband do you use ?


----------



## bmichels

nomax said:


> HI Guys!i think the best sounding AMP/ Partner for the ABYSS will be THIS ONE http://www.simaudio.com/en/product/37-headphone-amplifier.html
> 
> REGARDS NOMAX


 
  
 did you tested it ?   I heard that one of the best AMP partner for ABYSS was the Cavalli Liquid Gold ?


----------



## David1961

bmichels said:


> david1961 said:
> 
> 
> > My 009's which can be seen in my Avatar is different to most if not all other 009's. The headband is different which for me makes my 009's look amazing.
> ...


 
  
  
 I've already posted photos of the headband I did for my 009's, two of which I've used myself as a Mannequin or Dummy wearing my 009's which can be found on the Mods for SR-009 thread.
 I've also explained which headband was used and how I did it on the same thread.
  
 However since the first time I did that headband, I have been making sight changes to improve it's looks, well to what I think is an improvement.
 I can do some more photos later today on the Mods for SR-009 thread if you'd like, but they won't be any bigger than the ones that's already there.


----------



## Xecuter

bmichels said:


> did you tested it ?   I heard that one of the best AMP partner for ABYSS was the Cavalli Liquid Gold ?


 
  
 I think there is a lot of hype around cavalli products. Their track record for quality is not great, I would definitely audition the liquid gold if looking for a totl amp. But it is not great across a range of headphones. Reviews indicate it really only works well with planars, and even then for the price it is really not outstanding to say the gs-x dact which can be used with everything from iems to the the abyss.
  
 I'm not saying avoid it. I'm saying audition what you can and consider your options very carefully.


----------



## nepherte

I'd like to pitch in here. My Liquid Gold arrived this week and since I don't have any planars at hand right now, I am using it with my HD800. I think the combination works really well. I have no idea about the gs-x as I haven't heard it yet. Can't help you there.
  
 Regardless, you should audition as much as you can and have your own opinion, no matter what people tell you.
  
 @bmichels: Should you wish to audition the Liquid Gold, feel free to let me know. I'm from Leuven.


----------



## bmichels

nepherte said:


> @bmichels: Should you wish to audition the Liquid Gold, feel free to let me know. I'm from Leuven.


 
  
 Thanks a lot for the invitation. I think I will accept it when I return in Belgium.  
  
 - What source do you use most with the Liquid Gold ?
 - Did you had other TOL headphone Amps before the Liquid Gold ? tubes amps ? If yes, then how did they compare to the Liquid Gold ?


----------



## bmichels

xecuter said:


> ... the gs-x dact which can be used with everything from iems to the the abyss.
> 
> I'm not saying avoid it. I'm saying audition what you can and consider your options very carefully.


 
  
 Thanks for the advice and for the mention of the *gs-x* that I will investigate. I believe that I saw a *red* version of it that was stunning ? Is it possible ?


----------



## nepherte

bmichels said:


> Thanks a lot for the invitation. I think I will accept it when I return in Belgium.
> 
> - What source do you use most with the Liquid Gold ?
> - Did you had other TOL headphone Amps before the Liquid Gold ? tubes amps ? If yes, then how did they compare to the Liquid Gold ?


 
 I exclusively play mp3 and alac files (cds, itunes and hdtracks) through my Primare NP30. It's a rather unknown dac / streamer in the head-fi community, quite the opposite in the speaker business. You won't see me selling that Primare anytime soon. I just love it.
  
 Other source I have at my disposal at the moment is a Musical Fidelity M1 DAC. Haven't used it with my Lau yet, and will probably end up with my Primare anyways.
  
 I can only make a direct comparison with the Lehmann Audio Linear. The Lau definitely has more punch than the Linear and adds more depth to the music. Slightly more revealing, I hear things in the background that I don't with the Linear. Overall, the sound is just "fuller".
  
 The only other TOTL amp I have heard is the Bakoon HPA-21, but it's too long ago to make a proper comparison. Gut feeling is that I prefer the Lau. Still looking for an opportunity to listen to a HeadAmp GS-X.


----------



## nepherte

bmichels said:


> Thanks for the advice and for the mention of the *gs-x* that I will investigate. I believe that I saw a *red* version of it that was stunning ? Is it possible ?


 

 Yes. Right now, they are available in black, silver and red. I think Justin made a few in purple (like the blue hawai), which in my opinion is even more stunning, but there weren't many people interested in that color and he dropped it.


----------



## cladane

cortazar said:


> Hi guys.
> I would like to share with you my fresh experiences with a new setup that i hear for 3 days now. My abyss HP were a 2-end system so far (the first is woo audio wes with stax sr009). I had a cavalli LiAu for a few weeks (with auralic vega as source) but i must say i was a bit disappointed. I was expecting a SQ that will make me not looking for something else. Ok the bass, dynamic, scene were there but i found that system lacking breath, detail, texture (on a very high level) compared to stax with wes. On the other hand i found my stax rag very (i mean veery ) good in terms of detail. The highs were the best i heard ever, the mids were very good too. Listening to music was something special but i knew something was lacking . This something was mass, meat call it what you want and scene. I wanted to see and feel the acoustic instruments (cello!) it was only.. very good but not perfect.
> From what i heard with abyss i knew this HP has a potential but it needs a proper amp (and a source) to let it shine.
> I am still waiting for me ED 445 and hope it will be the one and only amp , but in the meantime i bought a sun audio SV-300 BE that i hear throw hifiman adapter (speaker cable NBS monitor IV) after my friend Piotr Ryka from hifiphilosophy.com recommend me a good 300B via hifiman. And i must say this was it!
> ...


 
 Dear Pawel,
 But have you connected the Abyss to the D1-Dual which allows the XLR connectors to drive it ?
 What do you get as détails or room placement ??


----------



## Cortazar

Yes, i have tried it directly from xlr. It sounds really good, but compared to 300B sun audio lacks some air , space, meat, sounds a little bit dryer. I have sold the sun audio last week.
 I get the kondo souga next week. I will keep you informed,
  
 Pawel


----------



## cladane

Thank you Pawel.
Tell me: What hell is the kondo souga ??
I have heard as possible amps about ECBA or RKV MKIII until now.


----------



## Hun7er

Kondo Souga is that http://www.audionote.co.jp/en/products/power_amplifier/souga.html


----------



## bmichels

hun7er said:


> Kondo Souga is that http://www.audionote.co.jp/en/products/power_amplifier/souga.html


 
  
 What a beauty Pawel !!  quite expensive I believe ?  
  
 But, since it is not a headphone Amp, I do not understand the connection with with the ABYSS ? Will the ABYSS be driven directly from it's Speakers outputs ?


----------



## Hun7er

It cost around 55000 dollars new.
  
 Pawel uses an hifiman adapter.


----------



## bmichels

hun7er said:


> It cost around 55000 dollars new.
> 
> Pawel uses an hifiman adapter.


 
  
 Thanks for the info.

 but... may I ask what is the reason of using a speaker Amp + an adapter instead of a dedicated TOL headphone Amp ?


----------



## Hun7er

And why not ?
  
 Seriously speaker amp can paired very well with headphone. Moreover you can find more speaker SET amp than headphone SET amp. Finally you can use the amp for headphone and speaker.


----------



## gjc11028

bmichels said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> but... may I ask what is the reason of using a speaker Amp + an adapter instead of a dedicated TOL headphone Amp ?


 
 looked at the other way, if you had that amp, why i the world spend money on a (any) headphone amp?


----------



## cladane

hun7er said:


> And why not ?
> 
> Seriously speaker amp can paired very well with headphone. Moreover you can find more speaker SET amp than headphone SET amp. Finally you can use the amp for headphone and speaker.



I'm surprised since I read very often that inserting an adapter would alter cans sound in some way. Would it be false??


----------



## Hun7er

Maybe technically it alters the sound but sonically you can get a nice result. A bunch of people who didn't recommand this type of amplification have not heard it.


----------



## Cortazar

Hi,
 well i am going to try it via hifiman adapter and directly with speaker terminals to find out which one sounds better. I wrote an email to kondo to ask if it is secure to drive a 45 Ohm load with this amp, i hope they will answer soon. If any of you can tell me something about it i would be very greatfull.
 I also thought that a headphone amplifier must be better then a speaker amp with a adapter but my experiences with cavalli audio LiAu and sun audio 300B prove it does not have to be that way.
 The reason that i bought kondo souga is also, that i will also have a speaker amp and that for the price i bought it i think it is a good investment too ( about 1/3 from the new price), and of cource i find it  cool to have a kondo in my home .
 If it will sound better than a eddie curremt 445? Well i will tell you as soon as i get the EC amp (which will be the next weeks i hope).
 I also think it is some crazy combination, but isn't our hobby crazy too? 
  
 Pawel


----------



## Hun7er

Pawel,
  
 The hifiman is a bit cheap, you can also look at diy converter with better component. I like the fact you try different combinaison without partiallity. I looking forward your test between the Kondo and 445 !!


----------



## customcoco

cladane said:


> I'm surprised since I read very often that inserting an adapter would alter cans sound in some way. Would it be false??




It depends on the amp's output impedance.

Most of the time, an adaptor's basically just a resistor, which brings the impedance up.
So, the amp "sees" a load that's not the headphones impedance itself, but the adaptor's.

That's not a good thing IMHO, but I'd gladly be proven wrong.


----------



## cladane

I just read that Craig is discontinuing the 445. Would it be because of technical issues ?


----------



## bmichels

cladane said:


> I just read that Craig is discontinuing the 445. Would it be because of technical issues ?




Where did you read this ? This is terrible news IF it is correct !


----------



## cladane

Read official Eddie Current 4-45 thread here page 9...


----------



## gjc11028

cortazar said:


> Hi,
> well i am going to try it via hifiman adapter and directly with speaker terminals to find out which one sounds better. I wrote an email to kondo to ask if it is secure to drive a 45 Ohm load with this amp, i hope they will answer soon. If any of you can tell me something about it i would be very greatfull.
> I also thought that a headphone amplifier must be better then a speaker amp with a adapter but my experiences with cavalli audio LiAu and sun audio 300B prove it does not have to be that way.
> The reason that i bought kondo souga is also, that i will also have a speaker amp and that for the price i bought it i think it is a good investment too ( about 1/3 from the new price), and of cource i find it  cool to have a kondo in my home .
> ...


 
 if it is a transformer-coupled amp you may not want to attach without some resistance.  if you look at the speaker amp for headphones thread there is discussion of alternatives to the hifiman adapter.


----------



## nickif

cortazar said:


> Hi,
> well i am going to try it via hifiman adapter and directly with speaker terminals to find out which one sounds better. I wrote an email to kondo to ask if it is secure to drive a 45 Ohm load with this amp, i hope they will answer soon. If any of you can tell me something about it i would be very greatfull.
> I also thought that a headphone amplifier must be better then a speaker amp with a adapter but my experiences with cavalli audio LiAu and sun audio 300B prove it does not have to be that way.
> The reason that i bought kondo souga is also, that i will also have a speaker amp and that for the price i bought it i think it is a good investment too ( about 1/3 from the new price), and of cource i find it  cool to have a kondo in my home .
> ...




This is by far the craziest solution I've heard to drive the abyss so far, but should be nice, have fun and do report back please!


----------



## Hun7er

I have drive the JPS Labs with 2x70 watts class A tube amplifier.


----------



## nickif

hun7er said:


> I have drive the JPS Labs with 2x70 watts class A tube amplifier.




Result? What connector/adaptor did you use?


----------



## Hun7er

The result was very good, a little too bright on the treble. I preferred my MCIntosh MC225.


----------



## cladane

> The reason that i bought kondo souga is also, that i will also have a speaker amp and that for the price i bought it i think it is a good investment too ( about 1/3 from the new price), and of cource i find it  cool to have a kondo in my home .
> If it will sound better than a eddie curremt 445? Well i will tell you as soon as i get the EC amp (which will be the next weeks i hope).


 
 Ok Pawel, should be really interesting to read your results. Comparing the Sun Audio (300B), the Souga and the 445 is a nice experiment. I would like to know what amp gives the Abyss the larger soundstage. I'm trying to understand if headphones can compete with speakers in the placement field, like being IN the concert room and not remaining at the door.


----------



## bmichels

cortazar said:


> ... i find it  cool to have a kondo in my home .
> 
> Pawel


 
  
 +1 !  Lucky lucky guy !  This Kondo is a legend !


----------



## subtle

chengka7 said:


> lol, I have listened to my Abyss and HD800 through many amps. Among them are Eddie Current Balancing Act, Eddie Current 2A3MKIV, GSX-MKII, DNA stratus, Susy Dynahi, Auralic Taurus MKII, Audio-gd master 9. I have to say in terms of scalability, HD800 really destroys Abyss in every way. Abyss is not like the phone that requires absolutely best amp to sound its best. However, with the right amp, like Eddie Current Balancing Act and 2A3MKIV, HD800 is truly a pair of remarkable headphones. It does not have the feeling of strength that Abyss provides, but it has the best imaging and precision among all the headphones I have or owned.
> 
> Regarding to the amping choice of HD800 and Abyss, my favorite is Eddie Current 2A3MKIV and balancing act. And I do not think GSX-MKII is a good choice for HD800 or Abyss. And I think even the balanced Dynahi is far better than GSX-MKII. I just had a private meet with one of my old friend who owned both GSX-MKII and Dynahi. I agreed that I was blown away by GSX-MKII when I first heard it, but then, I found Susy Dynahi is way better than GSX-MKII, but I have to say I did not give enough audition time for Dynahi, so I might be wrong. But when it comes to my Eddie Current 2A3MKIV and ECBA, man, there is no contest. 2A3MKIV and ECBA easily win. GSX-MKII is a remarkable amp for LCD's or TH900, but it just not good when paired with Abyss and HD800.
> 
> This is just my 2 cents, and I would like to say there is really hard to tell which one is absolutely the best when you are comparing those TOTL headphones. Just pick the one you like, and there is no point to defend them or attack them I think, especially when you are not even considering buying one. I also think HD650 is absolutely one of the best headphone I have ever owned. I like HD650 even more than LCD-2 and LCD-X.


 
  
 So grateful for this post chengka7.  You saved me $5500 on a gamble tryout purchase.  Many thanks.


----------



## chengka7

Haha, thanks


----------



## purrin

chengka,
  
 I agree with you on the HD800 and the top tier EC amps. Now you need to try Abyss with Ragnarok.


----------



## mulder01

purrin said:


> chengka,
> 
> I agree with you on the HD800 and the top tier EC amps. Now you need to try Abyss with Ragnarok.


 
  
 What do you think of the Ragnarok?


----------



## chengka7

purrin said:


> chengka,
> 
> I agree with you on the HD800 and the top tier EC amps. Now you need to try Abyss with Ragnarok.


 
 haha, still angry with Jason rejecting my beta applications.


----------



## cladane

chengka7 said:


> haha, still angry with Jason rejecting my beta applications.


 

 Very very surprising conclusion between HD800 and Abyss cans. First time read this one. Perhaps EC amps don't suit Abyss ?? I'm not even sure that Abyss is very well driven by tubes. I wonder if this technology wouldn't be more accurate with refined transistor amps. I'm thinking at the moded RudiStor RP-030 for example. Look more widely, US aren't the onliest amps makers.


----------



## chengka7

cladane said:


> Very very surprising conclusion between HD800 and Abyss cans. First time read this one. Perhaps EC amps don't suit Abyss ?? I'm not even sure that Abyss is very well driven by tubes. I wonder if this technology wouldn't be more accurate with refined transistor amps. I'm thinking at the moded RudiStor RP-030 for example. Look more widely, US aren't the onliest amps makers.


 
 I never said that Abyss is worse than HD800. I tried Abyss with some other SS amp but not the one you are mentioning here. I am pretty sure there are so many good amps out there that can drive Abyss well, but I do not think EC2A3MKIV is a poor match with Abyss.


----------



## Sorrodje

cladane said:


> Very very surprising conclusion between HD800 and Abyss cans. First time read this one. Perhaps EC amps don't suit Abyss ?? I'm not even sure that Abyss is very well driven by tubes. I wonder if this technology wouldn't be more accurate with refined transistor amps. I'm thinking at the moded RudiStor RP-030 for example. Look more widely, US aren't the onliest amps makers.


 
  
  
 Did you hear the Abyss yourself ?


----------



## cladane

Tried it with RP-030 (moded for Abyss) and RKV MKIII (OTL and impedancer outs) on a test with SR009 and LCD-X cans.
I bought one LCD-X since the OTL out of the MKIII was appealing for me and I own an EC ZANA DEUX.


----------



## Sorrodje

cladane said:


> Tried it with RP-030 (moded for Abyss) and RKV MKIII (OTL and impedancer outs) on a test with SR009 and LCD-X cans.
> I bought one LCD-X since the OTL out of the MKIII was appealing for me and I own an EC ZANA DEUX.


 
  
 So what's your own opinion since it seems you own a HD800 ?


----------



## cladane

I have only HQ classical files from Qobuz. On soundstage, instrument separation, sound spreading, bass depth, from what I heard, I would compare the HD800 and LCD-X but the Abyss with SR009 with appropriate amps and DACs. If you use let's say a Conductor you could tell that the Abyss could compare with the HD800 or LCD-X but use a TotalDAC Dual and those unrevealed sounds the TotalDAC will bring out will make you understand why you spent 6 times an HD800 for the Abyss.


----------



## Sorrodje

cladane said:


> I have only HQ classical files from Qobuz. On soundstage, instrument separation, sound spreading, bass depth, from what I heard, I would compare the HD800 and LCD-X but the Abyss with SR009 with appropriate amps and DACs. If you use let's say a Conductor you could tell that the Abyss could compare with the HD800 or LCD-X but use a TotalDAC Dual and those unrevealed sounds the TotalDAC will bring out will make you understand why you spent 6 times an HD800 for the Abyss.


 
  
  
 Price seems a very important point for you.
  
 I heard and compared the HD800 and the Abyss on a Totaldac D1 Dual + Eddie Current Balancing Act myself and found the Abyss is a very impressive headphone indeed but the HD800 despite its lower price stays close in my opinion.  I heard a SR009 ( with EC Electra and my own Metrum dac) and it's more my cup of tea but the HD800 is not very far either.


----------



## Cortazar

The new ''top tier' has arrived. It is a beauty! It weights the same as a model too (34 kg).
 I have not heard it too long, but from what i heard slightly better detail, tighter bass and is more precise about scene. I found the mids to be more magical with 300B. The differences are not worth to pay so much money, but it is a common problem in high end. You have to pay twice as much for 5-10% better sound (in this case 1000% more ).
 I think i will be trying some other speaker cables (kondo SPz) and maybe will upgrade the hifiman adapter. Sun audio did not want to ''play'' with every cable too. It needed NBS monitor IV to let him really sing.
 I am still very curious how it compares to EC 445 and i will certainly write about it.

 Pawel


----------



## cladane

sorrodje said:


> Price seems a very important point for you.
> 
> I heard and compared the HD800 and the Abyss on a Totaldac D1 Dual + Eddie Current Balancing Act myself and found the Abyss is a very impressive headphone indeed but the HD800 despite its lower price stays close in my opinion.  I heard a SR009 ( with EC Electra and my own Metrum dac) and it's more my cup of tea but the HD800 is not very far either.



Really no, I'm indeed not price focused. I myself own an HD800, LCD-X and EC Zana Deux which I'm happy with.
But from what I heard I'm surprised to put the Abyss, SR009 and HD800 on the same league particularly on Classical but it is your taste.
Let's ask Pawel his feelings.


----------



## cladane

cortazar said:


> The new ''top tier' has arrived. It is a beauty! It weights the same as a model too (34 kg).
> I have not heard it too long, but from what i heard slightly better detail, tighter bass and is more precise about scene. I found the mids to be more magical with 300B. The differences are not worth to pay so much money, but it is a common problem in high end. You have to pay twice as much for 5-10% better sound (in this case 1000% more ).
> I think i will be trying some other speaker cables (kondo SPz) and maybe will upgrade the hifiman adapter. Sun audio did not want to ''play'' with every cable too. It needed NBS monitor IV to let him really sing.
> I am still very curious how it compares to EC 445 and i will certainly write about it.
> ...



Ok Pawel,
I'm very interested to compare with the 445.
And how do you compare in your system the Abyss and HD800 ?


----------



## chengka7

Just curious, do you guys keep your Abyss on your headphone stand all the time while not listening?


----------



## Cortazar

Sorry, but i do not have HD 800 (not yet )


----------



## rdreyer

chengka7 said:


> Just curious, do you guys keep your Abyss on your headphone stand all the time while not listening?


 
  
 Yes, it's probably the sturdiest object I currently have at home 
  
 Renaud


----------



## up late

on sound alone i'd take the abyss over the hd800 every time


----------



## mulder01

Quote:


cortazar said:


> The new ''top tier' has arrived. It is a beauty! It weights the same as a model too (34 kg).
> I have not heard it too long, but from what i heard slightly better detail, tighter bass and is more precise about scene. I found the mids to be more magical with 300B. The differences are not worth to pay so much money, but it is a common problem in high end. You have to pay twice as much for 5-10% better sound (in this case 1000% more ).
> I think i will be trying some other speaker cables (kondo SPz) and maybe will upgrade the hifiman adapter. Sun audio did not want to ''play'' with every cable too. It needed NBS monitor IV to let him really sing.
> I am still very curious how it compares to EC 445 and i will certainly write about it.
> ...


 
  
 If you are looking for a nice tube amp for speakers and headphones, what about the Woo 234 mono blocks?  That would get rid of your adapter issue as well.  Obviously it is twice the cost, but if you're buying multiple 5k amps, over time you'll end up spending the money in one way or another.  And with amps around the same price range you would assume you'd get roughly the same level of build quality, just a different flavour, like you just discovered.  Granted some will pair better than others depending on what you're looking for.
  
 I can't give you my personal recommendation because I haven't heard the combo but just an idea.  It seems to be pretty highly regarded.


----------



## Hun7er

Hi,
  
 At the beginning I found the HD800 close to the Abyss. But after months with the Abyss I found the HD800 lifeless with irrealistic soundstage and poor texturing.
 It lacks palpability, richness that gives the beauty of the music.
 Even the SR007MKI beats IMHO any HD800 rigs
  
 I heard the HD800 with Beta 22, Woo WA5, Balancing Act, McIntosh MC225, Audio Research D70MKII, Threshold SA3.9s. I used DHC Cable and Anax 3.0 mod. I never been satisfied with any rigs, it always sounded lean.
  
 I'd take the SR007MKI with any amp and it sounds so musical and soulful.
  
 Finally I think that you hear technicality with the HD800, better details, better soundstaging, better clarity, better imaging...but seems the music more realistic ? I think no because you lose musicality. It's like a band who each member is the better on it's own domain but they didn't play together. Wooo see the solo guitar ! Wooo the singer sing like no other ! But it sounds weird because everyone plays on his side.


----------



## snormal

hun7er said:


> Hi,
> 
> At the beginning I found the HD800 close to the Abyss. But after months with the Abyss I found the HD800 lifeless with irrealistic soundstage and poor texturing.
> It lacks palpability, richness that gives the beauty of the music.
> Even the SR007MKI beats IMHO any HD800 rigs




Finally there is a true impression of hd800...couldn't't agree more


----------



## Kiats

snormal said:


> Finally there is a true impression of hd800...couldn't't agree more




+1


----------



## pearljam50000

snormal said:


> Finally there is a true impression of hd800...couldn't't agree more



lol, they are "true" because they reflect yours?
It's just one guy's opinion


----------



## Sorrodje

hun7er said:


> Finally I think that you hear technicality with the HD800, better details, better soundstaging, better clarity, better imaging...but seems the music more realistic ? I think no because you lose musicality. It's like a band who each member is the better on it's own domain but they didn't play together. Wooo see the solo guitar ! Wooo the singer sing like no other ! But it sounds weird because everyone plays on his side.


 
  
 Musicality... such a subjective thing. IMO, too many peopke have the bad habit to mix their own tastes and "musicality".
  
 For the music I listen to and with my preferences, I don't feel the HD800 lacks of musicality. That's not the truth, that's only my opinion . I don''t believe in any "truth" in matter of musicality.


----------



## snormal

I think musicality is quite different from taste...being musical is like you have great techniques with touches with your instruments, it's a world apart from only being technical.
To me HD800 is undoubtly a great headphone but with faults. It has clarity and good separations, but the fake soundstages and analytical character makes it only a great monitor headphone...


----------



## JustinS

hun7er said:


> Hi,
> 
> At the beginning I found the HD800 close to the Abyss. But after months with the Abyss I found the HD800 lifeless with irrealistic soundstage and poor texturing.
> It lacks palpability, richness that gives the beauty of the music.
> ...


 
 Totally the same as my experience with them, they were moved on very quickly after purchase! Luckily I didn't lose too much money, one thing is for certain, I don't miss them. I would love to try the Abyss on my Mcintosh MHA100 though.


----------



## nickif




----------



## Kiats

Congrats! Enjoy!


----------



## subtle

So JPS Labs guys...can we get a version without some $2k boutique voodoo headphone cable?  You know, a version that would actually cater to 95% of the general headphone market that doesn't buy in to the cable hype?  Even with that ridiculous frame and headphone band I'd at least give these things a shot at the $3k range.  Just give the public a basic star quad option so you can actually sell more than five or six of these things a month.


----------



## JustinS

Congratulations nickif!!! Very nice


----------



## mulder01

subtle said:


> So JPS Labs guys...can we get a version without some $2k boutique voodoo headphone cable?  You know, a version that would actually cater to 95% of the general headphone market that doesn't buy in to the cable hype?  Even with that ridiculous frame and headphone band I'd at least give these things a shot at the $3k range.  Just give the public a basic star quad option so you can actually sell more than five or six of these things a month.


 
 I wondered the same thing.  The biker bag probably isn't necessary either.  

 Cheaper cables and no bag would probably only drop $1000 off the price though and I'd say since they are a cable company, they will probably keep their stance on the importance of expensive cables.  I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## Taft81

my setup:
  
 Ayon Cdt+skyllaII -> Leben Cx300xs upgrade => Abyss
  
 i love my set up, and still looking for improvement in the future.
  
  
  

  
  
 i use speaker out to drive abyss

  
  
 thanks


----------



## mulder01

Did you cut the XLR plugs off your abyss cables?


----------



## Xecuter

Yeah was wondering this too. Pretty crazy if he has.


----------



## Taft81

nope, i use female furutech xlr to banana connector
  
 thinking about it but not ready to make the cut haha


----------



## bmichels

*Another "elegant" way to drive direct the ABYYS ?  *"only" $ 12.500 per pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. 
  
Icon Audio flagship limited edition MB81 monoblocks : 100 kg/pair,  2x200watts !
  
 Preview on ULTRA HIGH-END.        Each GU81 valve is 1 Kg and 26 cm tall !


----------



## wink

A better way to drive the Abyss. 2 of these, or 4 for balanced mode...


----------



## mulder01

I know you're probably joking with that last floorstanding mono thing, but is a speaker amp for these really any more beneficial than a good headphone amp?
  
 If you have a digital reading on your volume control that gives you -XX dB, every 3dB increment is a 50% step in power output.  So on a headphone amp that puts out 4 watts per channel at 00dB (full volume) it puts out 2 watts at -3dB, 1 watt at -6dB, half a watt at -9dB, a quarter of a watt at -12dB, an eighth of a watt at -15dB etc etc.  So unless you're listening to a 4 watt headphone amplifier at almost full volume, chances are you're using less than 1 watt of power.  Even 1 watt of power into floorstanding speakers will actually give you a pretty high volume level.  I was watching a video review on the ALO studio 6 which has 4x headphone outputs on the front and they said in the ALO offices they were running sets of speakers off the headphone outputs.  
  
 So besides flexibility and an increased range in products, is there any other reason to use buy a speaker amp for the abyss over a dedicated headphone amp.  Is there any point having an extra 49 or 99 watts that you're not using?  I mean, it's nice to have power to spare, but a 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 watt headphone amp has power to spare too
  
 I mean, I'm guessing people buy them because they want to just have one amp for speakers and headphones, but is that not the case?


----------



## cladane

Point taken. This reasoning is convincing. I suspect that brands like McIntosh making the MHA100 had it: one product two markets.
But perhaps a speaker amp could have a better soundstage due to the extra power needed? A techy here to confirm ?


----------



## customcoco

cladane said:


> But perhaps a speaker amp could have a better soundstage due to the extra power needed? A techy here to confirm ?


 
 IMHO, power is power and it doesn't affect soundstaging at all.
  
 After all, your cans are only consuming a limited amount of it at a given point in time for a given output level. Having more than you'll ever be in need of sounds like wasting to me.


----------



## cladane

True. But perhaps such a speaker amp requires a design for sound HQ reproduction by high end speakers you don't find in actual cans amps ??


----------



## customcoco

cladane said:


> True. But perhaps such a speaker amp requires a design for sound HQ reproduction by high end speakers you don't find in actual cans amps ??




The thing is that high end speaker amps aren't made to deal with headphones, and headphones are no mini-speakers.

They're a completely different load to the amplifier.

Also, most high-end headphones are more revealing than even the very best speakers around.

I, for one, think that some people just want to spend more than they have to, even if it means getting a compromised solution when a simpler, more elegant one is just around the corner....


----------



## cladane

Your arguments are very convincing. It means there is definitely a huge market in amps designed for cans.
You say that high end headphones are more resolving but what about soundstage and 'head centered sound ' ?? How can you compete with speakers on that ?


----------



## customcoco

cladane said:


> How can you compete with speakers on that ?


 
 You can, using binaural recordings or, and perhaps even better, something like a smyth realiser.
  
 Some of my best listening moments were achieved using the latter. Best 3K$ one could spend in our hobby IMHO.
  
 No audiophile, woowoo, BTW. It really works, and it has changed the way I see headphones...
  
 Anyway.
  
 If you'd like to continue our little conversation, I'd certainly like to, let's do it using PM's, not to derail the thread too much.


----------



## David1961

I went to the Hi-Fi show yesterday in which I heard the Abyss, but because of the outside noise I found it impossible to hear the SQ properly. Because of that I couldn't do a fair comparison to the 009's, plus because it seemed a lot of messing about was needed to get a proper fit, I stopped trying.


----------



## up late

that's a shame


----------



## mulder01

That's unfortunate.  I guess it would be hard to properly judge any open headphone in an environment like that.
  
 When I tried them, the ear cups barely touched my head at all - it was more like a pair of drivers suspended on a frame next to my head which I'll admit takes a little bit of getting used to.  Still sounded brilliant, but I think I was the only one in the shop at the time so it was pretty quiet.


----------



## up late

yep - when i tried them the ear cups pressed lightly against my ears


----------



## negura

david1961 said:


> ...


 
  
 I have also heard the Abyss yesterday and had them hooked up to the same amplifier as the new Audeze's and HD800s several times. No contest there vs Audeze at all, even when heard in meet conditions. The Abyss were better in almost (?) everything and a pleasure to hear, but ultimately more transparent headphones. I have heard the bunch of heapdhones on two amps (a Bryston and the new McIntosh headamp) and the Abyss also don't seem to have the dreaded pain in the backside type of treble the HD800s in their native form can have, which is really great. On a separate note I can't seem to understand why the McIntosh amplifier should costs what it does, judging from how I heard it sound, but that's a different story and only cutting it some slack due to meet conditions.
  
 The 009s rig at the show was terrible. It must have been the source, as I have heard the 727II many times before and it's not that bad. In this rig actually the 009s sounded worse than some lesser (imo) dynamic headphones on decent rigs, like the Auralic stack.
  
 Back to Abyss, the bad news: That fit was impossible. I had not quite realized what a poor concept they came up with for the torture device that is the headband, until my hands-on impressions. It is so rigid and awkward compared to pretty much any other headphones out there. From speaking with the dealers it seemed to be too cumbersome for them to even try and get the Abyss tweaked for individual demo'ers. Needless to say by looking and speaking with many of the people demo'ing the Abyss, few could actually get a good fit with these. I myself had to push the headcups with my hands to get a seal and have them sound properly, while also trying to ensure I am not covering the drivers. I do not think for a second this is acceptable design in 1000$ headphones, let alone 5000$ ones.
  
 But where it most matters my impressions are they deliver and sounded really great. It was no possible to compare them with the 009s, but after hearing the Abyss, my impressions are the latter should rank above any dynamic headphones and while having a very different type of sound could be comparable to the 009s.


----------



## David1961

My comparison would've been with my 009 / BHSE / K-01 and not any of the Stax amps and source used at that meeting.
  
 Comfort wise I'll take my 009's every time.


----------



## customcoco

negura said:


> Back to Abyss, the bad news: That fit was impossible. I had not quite realized what a poor concept they came up with for the torture device that is the headband, until my hands-on impressions. It is so rigid and awkward compared to pretty much any other headphones out there. From speaking with the dealers it seemed to be too cumbersome for them to even try and get the Abyss tweaked for individual demo'ers. Needless to say by looking and speaking with many of the people demo'ing the Abyss, few could actually get a good fit with these. I myself had to push the headcups with my hands to get a seal and have them sound properly, while also trying to ensure I am not covering the drivers. I do not think for a second this is acceptable design in 1000$ headphones, let alone 5000$ ones.


 
 That's my problem with it.
  
 How did JPS manage to get their first cans to sound good, yet screw up the whole product by messing with something as simple as a headband design ?


----------



## David1961

Because I wanted to listen to music I'm familiar with when hearing the Abyss, I took two of my CD's which were  "Tubular Bells 3" Mike Oldfield, and "Selling England by the Pound" early Genesis.
 In order for me to listen to my CD's Bryston units were used which can be seen in the photo.


----------



## Nomax

My search is over my FRIENDS!
THIS COMBO is UNBELIEVABLE and Sounds HEAVENLY!
Thanks again two both CEO'S JOE&FRIED FOR this TWO OUTSTANDING PRODUCTS!

AB1266&VIOLECTIC V281

I hope you get the Chance to hear this DREAM TEAM
I was Hearing a Lot of AMPS(cavalli liguid Gold,auralic taurus and many more)but the V281 is WONDER MACHINE!WOAHH!







Regards NOMAX


----------



## bmichels

nomax said:


> My search is over my FRIENDS!
> THIS COMBO is UNBELIEVABLE and Sounds HEAVENLY!
> Thanks again two both CEO'S JOE&FRIED FOR this TWO OUTSTANDING PRODUCTS!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congratulation Nomax, and happy listening    I saw you in Essen saturday with your ABYYS around the neck 
  
  
 this combo is Tempting...  but don't you have no issue what so ever with the Fit and seal of the ABYYS ?  Feel it comfortable enough ? 
  
 Did you tested some other TOL headphone amps before making this choice ? can you tell us Which one and why did you not choosed them for the ABBYS ?  Dud you tested the Liquid Gold that is supposed to pair extremely wekk with the ABYSS ? 
  
 thanks


----------



## Fririce0003

nomax said:


> My search is over my FRIENDS!
> THIS COMBO is UNBELIEVABLE and Sounds HEAVENLY!
> Thanks again two both CEO'S JOE&FRIED FOR this TWO OUTSTANDING PRODUCTS!
> 
> ...




 Hey Nomax, wondering the same as Bmichels, had the pleasure of trying the abyss with this amp last month. Was a good pairing but I still felt it lacking compared to the Prautes and WA5 (with good tubes). To me it seemed a tad bright, slightly more reserved and a smaller soundstage. Though the unit was on its first day out of the box. 
 I've gotten to try my abyss with the LAu, Prautes, WA5, GS-X MK2, Luxman P-700u, ALO MK 3B+. But I still prefer it with my WA-5, might just be to my ears though. 
Cheers


----------



## Nomax

So i am wondering and laughing about the Diskussion about seal and perfekt fit 

Every REAL OWNER has the CHANCE to Band in or band out the headband and after that you can stretch it out or in!

THIS Chance will not have the visitors on meets or on Festivals 

And the ABYSS is very comfortable,more comfortable than AUDEZE LCD 

Why V281?

I was trying AURALIC TAURUS MK 2 not enough power,cavalli liguid Gold to much OVERPRICED and not worth that money,and i am owner of both SPL PHONITORs but not enough power to Drive the ABYSS

But the New VIOLECTRIC V281 is a realy in my opinion the HERCULES and has the POWER to kick my ABYSS in the ASS and Drive it very very well

I am so happy with this combo

Sorry for my Bad english

NOMAX

Ps.sorry i am not a Fan of tube AMPS


----------



## rdreyer

I have been listening to the Abyss for a few months, and they are the most comfortable headphones I own. I have a very wide head, so I wear them fully stretched out, with the sides bent out, slightly toed-in. They make a minimal amount of contact with my ears, floating off the sides of my head. I put a thin eyeglass case (basically only cloth and felt) under the leather headband, and I can wear them for hours as they almost disappear.
 If I slide the headband forward, the presentation becomes warmer and more intimate. If I slide it backwards, the instruments on the sides of the soundstage become more emphasized.  To adjust the bass damping, I can move the pads closer or farther from my ears. In other words, moving the headphones changes the overall tonality and image placement, like for speakers.
  
 Ciao,
  
 Renaud


----------



## Fririce0003

nomax said:


> Ps.sorry i am not a Fan of tube AMPS




 Ah that would be it then , they are quite fiddly, had a few pairs of driver tubes go as well as 2 pairs of Sophia princesses and a pair of Full music 274b/n/+ luckily they were replaced under warranty.
 Have you had the chance to pair them with the GS-X? That's my favorite SS amp I've tried with them, plenty of detail and texture much more than the LAu. After trying out a few "TOTL" amps the I actually found, for me, the LAu to be rather underwhelming. Even if the price weren't regarded.
 Glad your enjoying the combo though


----------



## bmichels

cortazar said:


> ... I am still very curious how it compares to EC 445 and i will certainly write about it.
> 
> 
> Pawel


 
  
 Any news about the arrival of your 4-45 ?  We are eager to hear how it compare to your wonderful & rare Speaker AMP to drive ABYSS...


----------



## up late

agree with nomax that the abyss is more comfortable than audeze. sure it's a clunky design but the weight is well distributed.


----------



## cladane

bmichels said:


> Any news about the arrival of your 4-45 ?  We are eager to hear how it compare to your wonderful & rare Speaker AMP to drive ABYSS...


 

 bmichels, don't forget that Pawel owns what it is near the best all around sources: TotalDac server + D1 Dual. It is why being the 4-45 or the super amp they will be on par driving the Abyss.


----------



## Cortazar

I will be getting my 445 next month, i will Write right away! I swear. So far i am pleased with kondo and abyss, though i liked 300b better. I suppose it is a matter of cables and tubes. It lacks a Little bit magic and clarity. I have ordered 2a3 eml tubes for kondo and am very curious how do they differ from original kondo that are suppose to be a nos 2a3.
And yes, totaldac source is something ver special. Tons of Detail without a " digital sharpness" and user friendly digital files based system.


----------



## mulder01

Holy mother of god.  Abyss just posted this on their Facebook feed.  Custom order apparently...


----------



## wink

How to make ugly even uggler.   Horrid in the extreme....
  
 a pig with lipstick...


----------



## Xecuter

That is horrid.


----------



## customcoco

mulder01 said:


> Holy mother of god.  Abyss just posted this on their Facebook feed.  Custom order apparently...


 
 Why oh why did they share this...
  
 Is this anything to be proud of ?


----------



## mulder01

I'm gonna go ahead and just assume it was ordered by Prince.
  
 I don't know that they're necessarily proud of it, more so just showing that they can do any custom order you like.  
  
 Makes the stock model of the Abyss look a lot more pedestrian than before.


----------



## up late

i'm thinking lady gaga. that is so bad.


----------



## jackskelly

mulder01 said:


> Holy mother of god.  Abyss just posted this on their Facebook feed.  Custom order apparently...


 
  
 Now that's art! I wonder if snakeskin changes/alters the seal? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm not sure about the comfort though.


----------



## alvin sawdust

Abysmal.


----------



## Eternal Phoenix

alvin sawdust said:


> Abysmal.


 

 Sure you didn't mean Abyssmal?


----------



## Somphon

jackskelly said:


> Now that's art! I wonder if snakeskin changes/alters the seal?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It might improve bass extension...


----------



## JustinS

You just can't buy class can you!! :rolleyes:


----------



## Xecuter

The sound is all class. It's like the Gumpert of headphones - stomps the competition in performance, innovative engineering but the vain few who can't see past her looks, write it off without giving it a chance.


----------



## up late

folks just having some fun with it. it's an awesome sounding can tho.


----------



## JustinS

Xecuter, I agree with your comments on how good they sound, made my PS1000 sound small and tinny! My comment was regarding the obscene blinged up pair!


----------



## Xecuter

Oh my bad. Still a relevant comment. I love the ps1000 the sound is unique and matches 80s rock better than any other headphone I've heard.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

mulder01 said:


> Holy mother of god.  Abyss just posted this on their Facebook feed.  Custom order apparently...


 
 May I puke ?

 Ali


----------



## wink

An ocean of it, if you can bring it up......


----------



## mulder01

fririce0003 said:


> Hey Nomax, wondering the same as Bmichels, had the pleasure of trying the abyss with this amp last month. Was a good pairing but I still felt it lacking compared to the Prautes and WA5 (with good tubes). To me it seemed a tad bright, slightly more reserved and a smaller soundstage. Though the unit was on its first day out of the box.
> I've gotten to try my abyss with the LAu, Prautes, WA5, GS-X MK2, Luxman P-700u, ALO MK 3B+. But I still prefer it with my WA-5, might just be to my ears though.
> Cheers


 
  
 Can I ask your opinion on the ALO Mk3 with the Abyss?


----------



## Ingo Litta

Hi,
  
 just begun testing the AB-1266 using the new Violectric HPA V281 Can Amp. Other comparison gear: AKG K812 Pro on Bryston BHA-1F, Sennheiser HD 800 on Sennheiser's HDVD 800, Audeze LCD-X and Fostex TH-900 on SPL Phonitor 2 / Phonitor Mini.
  
 1st impression with regards to objective paramters: High tone resolution of the Abyss beaten by the HD 800, Mid's dynamics of the Abyss beaten by the Audeze, bass dynamic power beaten by the Fostex. My overall subjective impression is though that we have here a very subtly acting megnetostat which invites to listen into the music rather than banging it onto your head. A can for Jazz and Classics lovers. T.b.c ...

 Ingo


----------



## Ingo Litta

Would like to add photos but this seems not possible being a  'Junior Head-Fier'

 Ingo


----------



## Fririce0003

mulder01 said:


> Can I ask your opinion on the ALO Mk3 with the Abyss?




 I'd say the Mk3 is an adequate amplifier for the abyss but not ideal, it'll drive them to loud enough volumes for me but I do tend to listen a bit quieter. In terms of the sound the pairing produce it's a bit of a v shape, mids are a little recessed with the highs being on the hot side, a little too hot and verging on sibilant for my liking. Bass still has impact and authority, but texturing and bass resolution take a hefty hit. But the most noticeable set back is soundstage, with a good amplifier the abyss will disappear, you can hear effects extending infront of you above you and all around. The mk3 narrows the soundstage left and right a little, but depth and hight are drastically reduced. In terms of depth and hight it seems rather flat, it doesn't extend forward past the headphones it's a very in your head type of sound. Effects I would've heard floating above me in background are now taking centre stage along with the rest of the track. Due to the squashing of the soundstage imaging also takes a big hit, there isn't as much air around the instruments, it all sort of melds into one at the centre of your head. Which in turn impacts on the micro details, I can't hear as much of the mix. The finer details are still there but you have to strain to hear them which detracts from the enjoyment. Attack/speed also decreases slightly not much but certainly noticeable.
 Don't get me wrong it is a decent pairing but compared to the likes of the GS-X and WA5 it leaves you wanting. The abyss do scale with better amplification, not as much as the HD800's but a good amplifier will open up the soundstage and resolution and texturing will take a step forward.
 For the price the ALO does rather well especially considering its design purpose, if you were to ask me if it's good value for money to pair with the abyss I couldn't say. Personally for me I'd save up for the WA5, but if you already had the ALO and didn't have plans to buy another amp I'd say save your money and get a pair of LCD-XC's. Paired with the ALO Mk3b+ the sound will be more balanced and the soundstage more open, not as much impact or speed but overall a nicer presentation with that amp. Which is the main reason I use my XC's as my transportable headphones and keep the abyss at home. 
 Hope that helps, but if you have anything else more specific you wanted to know ask away and hopefully I'll be able to help.

Cheers
-Matt


----------



## Cortazar

Anyone listened to Abyss AB 1266 at CanJam?


----------



## mulder01

fririce0003 said:


> I'd say the Mk3 is an adequate amplifier for the abyss but not ideal, it'll drive them to loud enough volumes for me but I do tend to listen a bit quieter. In terms of the sound the pairing produce it's a bit of a v shape, mids are a little recessed with the highs being on the hot side, a little too hot and verging on sibilant for my liking. Bass still has impact and authority, but texturing and bass resolution take a hefty hit. But the most noticeable set back is soundstage, with a good amplifier the abyss will disappear, you can hear effects extending infront of you above you and all around. The mk3 narrows the soundstage left and right a little, but depth and hight are drastically reduced. In terms of depth and hight it seems rather flat, it doesn't extend forward past the headphones it's a very in your head type of sound. Effects I would've heard floating above me in background are now taking centre stage along with the rest of the track. Due to the squashing of the soundstage imaging also takes a big hit, there isn't as much air around the instruments, it all sort of melds into one at the centre of your head. Which in turn impacts on the micro details, I can't hear as much of the mix. The finer details are still there but you have to strain to hear them which detracts from the enjoyment. Attack/speed also decreases slightly not much but certainly noticeable.
> Don't get me wrong it is a decent pairing but compared to the likes of the GS-X and WA5 it leaves you wanting. The abyss do scale with better amplification, not as much as the HD800's but a good amplifier will open up the soundstage and resolution and texturing will take a step forward.
> For the price the ALO does rather well especially considering its design purpose, if you were to ask me if it's good value for money to pair with the abyss I couldn't say. Personally for me I'd save up for the WA5, but if you already had the ALO and didn't have plans to buy another amp I'd say save your money and get a pair of LCD-XC's. Paired with the ALO Mk3b+ the sound will be more balanced and the soundstage more open, not as much impact or speed but overall a nicer presentation with that amp. Which is the main reason I use my XC's as my transportable headphones and keep the abyss at home.
> Hope that helps, but if you have anything else more specific you wanted to know ask away and hopefully I'll be able to help.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your detailed response Matt, I am hopefully going to get to hear a whole range of gear soon and I was already under the impression that portable is not really the ideal way to go for these but the advantage of price and portability plays a fairly big role for me when I'm weighing up my options.  Having said that, if I have to go for a desktop setup I will - I don't want to be wasting my money on the Abyss if I can only get 50% of it's potential out of it... I definitely have the LCD-XC on my list of things to try (along with just about every other flagship can).  Maybe at a push I could stretch for the Violectric v281 at the moment, but if I absolutely love the Abyss on a more expensive amp, maybe I'm better off holding off for a while until I can get something that will take full advantage of it...


----------



## Fririce0003

mulder01 said:


> Thanks for your detailed response Matt, I am hopefully going to get to hear a whole range of gear soon and I was already under the impression that portable is not really the ideal way to go for these but the advantage of price and portability plays a fairly big role for me when I'm weighing up my options.  Having said that, if I have to go for a desktop setup I will - I don't want to be wasting my money on the Abyss if I can only get 50% of it's potential out of it... I definitely have the LCD-XC on my list of things to try (along with just about every other flagship can).  Maybe at a push I could stretch for the Violectric v281 at the moment, but if I absolutely love the Abyss on a more expensive amp, maybe I'm better off holding off for a while until I can get something that will take full advantage of it...




 Glad I could help, the vioelectric is a very nice amp for the abyss, at that price point and above it's more of a different sound signature than anything else so you just have to see what suits your tastes. But I would hold off for a while if the mk3b+ was the amp you were looking at to primarily drive the abyss. It'll still sound good, but you'll know your using headphones. To me the abyss have the ability to disappear with the right combination of gear, in terms of imaging and overall soundstage they beat my speaker rig on all but height... Well and physical impact, but that's to be expected with a 13" sub with 4" excursion right in front of my chair 
 Just remember to take what I said with a grain of salt and to trust your own ears. All the best with your search


----------



## nickif

fairkaeuflichde said:


> Hi,
> 
> bass dynamic power beaten by the Fostex.




Seriously? I own both Abyss and th900, to me the bass of Abyss is several notches above that of th900. Compared to abyss, th900's bass sounds booming and can't go as deep as Abyss...Never confuse quantity with quality.


----------



## up late

don't agree and i admire the abyss. the th900 has amazing bass for a can and measurements confirm that it does go deeper.


----------



## customcoco

up late said:


> don't agree and i admire the abyss. the th900 has amazing bass for a can and measurements confirm that it does go deeper.


 

 It might go deeper, but it isn't comparable in any way.
  
 The th900 sounds like headphones, while the Abyss has a somewhat more speaker-ish bass.


----------



## up late

they're comparable alright coz the th900 also has speaker-like bass imo. think the th900 is outstanding in that department.


----------



## Fririce0003

up late said:


> they're comparable alright coz the th900 also has speaker-like bass imo. think the th900 is outstanding in that department.




 Personally I'd have to disagree with the fostex having 'speaker like' bass. To me, based off my Vienna Acoustic Klimt The Kiss and JL F113, speaker like bass isn't just about extension and quantity but about texture and rendering. The fostex to me sounded very one noted, not in the sense of a single dominant frequency, but a singular type of bass, a singular type of wave form it could produce. It made the bass from different instrument and effects sound the same just at differing frequencies. It also couldn't time the bass properly, it was sharp and punchy but when it needed sustain it just couldn't hold. And there was never any sense of bass weight or pressure to me which is another quality of speaker like bass which I get from both the abyss and my LCD-XC's. 
 The bass texturing and weight, among other things, actually made my decision between the TH-900 and XC when I was looking for a closed phone a couple of months ago. And in fact it was purchasing the abyss that made me upgrade to my current speaker system in an attempt to replicate that visceral bass.
 But this is to my ears and your listening tastes may vary


----------



## up late

i'm not hearing one note bass from the th900 like i have from some pricey ported speakers. the th900 reproduces tuneful acoustic bass with definition and texture to my ears. sure it goes deep but its measured performance shows low distortion. so there's quality as well as quantity. the abyss actually has more measurable distortion overall. i wish more speakers could do bass as well as the th900. funny that you don't think its bass is visceral coz that's the word i've used to describe it. guess we must hear differently.


----------



## nickif

Compared to Abyss, TH900's bass is full of distortion...
  
 save for the bass, TH900 is great.


----------



## seeteeyou

.


----------



## up late

nickif said:


> Compared to Abyss, TH900's bass is full of distortion...
> 
> save for the bass, TH900 is great.




not often i say this to another headfi'er but you're wrong. the th900's bass sounds clean because of its low distortion. the thd measurements confirm it. like i said earlier, the abyss actually has more measurable distortion overall. check out innerfidelity and see for yourself.

just wanna say that i'm not trying to rag on the abyss. still think that it's a great can. just don't think that it's the best at everything. no can that i've heard is.


----------



## koiloco

nickif said:


> Compared to Abyss, TH900's bass is full of distortion...
> 
> save for the bass, TH900 is great.


 
  
 Respectfully disagree.


----------



## SilverEars

up late said:


> not often i say this to another headfi'er but you're wrong. the th900's bass sounds clean because of its low distortion. the thd measurements confirm it. like i said earlier, the abyss actually has more measurable distortion overall. check out innerfidelity and see for yourself.
> 
> just wanna say that i'm not trying to rag on the abyss. still think that it's a great can. just don't think that it's the best at everything. no can that i've heard is.


 
 Yes, you are right.  It's close to 1%.  What's up with that?  The impulse reponse has longer decay than others also.  TH900 has higher distortion at 90dB vs 100?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  In the mids and lower than the almighty $5k Abyss though.  Have not heard it, but maybe the harmonic distortions adds coloration to the sound people here want?


----------



## SilverEars

Also, looking at the isolation and FR.   It lines up, where the there is less isolation, there is the dip in the FR.


----------



## SoundFreaq

But don't y'all think though, that any measurements involving the Abyss must be taken with a grain of salt? It's the only can I've experienced where the sound, especially the bass, can vary drastically with millimeter changes in head or earpad placement. Without the most perfected fit, I can get loads of distortion down low at fairly low volume. 
  
 I would think the Abyss extremely difficult to measure with any authority in accuracy. That's not to say any of the aforementioned is wrong, I'm just saying. Abyss is fast. Slow decay makes more sense with a less than ideal fit and overexcursioned planars.


----------



## up late

@silver ears - just pointing out the facts in response to a couple of over the top posts about how much better the abyss's bass is compared to the th900 is all

@soundfreaq - guess you could say that about any headphone measurement really


----------



## Xecuter

It's not over the top. The th900 bass is not even remotely close to the Abyss.


----------



## up late

they sound different if that's what you mean. but if you mean that the quality of the th900's bass is not comparable to the abyss in any way then i think that's a pretty ridiculous claim to make subjectively and objectively. anyways this is the abyss thread so it's not like i wasn't expecting this reaction lol.


----------



## Xecuter

Look. They do sound different. But if you are a bass head, and you love visceral sub-bass, the abyss is the best headphone on the market, period. If you don't think so, you haven't heard it paired properly. I honestly believe that.
 I was at a big meet all weekend and EVERY person who heard the abyss, was in awe of the bass. 
 The th900 is a great headphone, is it the best closed headphone for bass heads? IMO yes.
  
 But the only headphone I would even consider saying has bass quality and quantity remotely comparable to the abyss, is the he560. The th900 is no where near.
 Next time, try leave a little gap at the front of your ear for best bass with abyss.
  
 The cavalli guy is right. The Abyss cannot be measured accurately, because the seal and cup angle really does impact the sound significantly. More than other headphones due to the unique ergonomics of the abyss, so the data is skewed.
  
 I don't really care about the measurements too much, I trust my ears because different people like different sound signatures.


----------



## up late

dunno if you read my posts but i've heard the abyss and think it's a great can. had a good fit with the pads barely touching my ears and it was hooked up to a pricey luxman headphone rig. 

my opinion is based on my ears and measurements. if you don't wanna accept the objective measurements then this comes down to a matter of opinion which won't be resolved here. so let's just agree to disagree ok? 

fwiw tyll hertsen over at innerfidelity takes care with his headphone measurements. think he takes measurements from five different positions on the dummy head.


----------



## Xecuter

Maybe that's why. The luxman stuff is very rolled off and warm. It's almost tube like in presentation. I would recommend trying the abyss with some more appropriate/recommended amps. I really feel like you haven't experienced the abyss properly from your comments.


----------



## up late

oh so it's the luxman rig with its notorious bass roll off. guess tyll must have used that for his measurements too.


----------



## Fririce0003

I'd also put some of it down to the lux, tried mine with the p-700u, don't get me wrong it's a great amp. But it's definitely gear towards your typical audiophile sound, rolled highs and liquids lush mids. Certainly more musical than analytical. Perfect for jazz, classical and maybe some Norah Jones. But if you want detail, speed and bass I'd go just about any other amp I've tried over the lux. It may come as a surprise but for an all round performer, including visceral bass, I'd suggest the WA5, with a good set of tubes all round, every time. Lots of people seem to dismiss it for the abyss with it being tubes and single ended, but feeding the abyss from the k-1000 port for my listening it beats the GS-X hands down. The only thing I've heard better is the WA234, the WA5 with good tubes comes close to the WA234 using stock. I've got to bring in my tubes to A2A for a proper demo of what the mono's can do! 
Oh and as a reference I listen to a lot of electronic, rock and metal. I also enjoy some classical on the side. I own both a GS-X MKII and WA5 and have tried the abyss with the vioelec V281, LAu, Prautes, Liquid glass, MK3b+ and obviously the GS-X and WA5. 
But as always take with a grain of salt also knowing the sound of the TH900 just wasn't for me.


----------



## up late

there are audiophiles who prefer an analytical sound so not sure what you're basing that generalisation on. all i know is that the abyss didn't sound slow or rolled off in the bass when i heard it with the luxman rig - it just sounded very impressive.

i'm sceptical of claims that folks make about the "speed" and "sound" of amps based on my own experience. so yeah i'm gonna have to take your subjective impressions with a grain of salt. 

turns out you like the abyss more than the th900. that's cool but that's a different conversation to the one that i thought we were having. anyways i didn't set out to turn this into an abyss v th900 thread coz i think they're both awesome cans in their own way.


----------



## buson160man

up late said:


> there are audiophiles who prefer an analytical sound so not sure what you're basing that generalisation on. all i know is that the abyss didn't sound slow or rolled off in the bass when i heard it with the luxman rig - it just sounded very impressive.
> 
> i'm sceptical of claims that folks make about the "speed" and "sound" of amps based on my own experience. so yeah i'm gonna have to take your subjective impressions with a grain of salt.
> 
> ...


 

  Actually the speed of the sound can make a huge difference in the way a headphone sounds. I have recently discovered that when I purchased a recapped concept 16.5 monster vintage receiver recently. The blogs on the net about the concept vintage receivers aka late seventies mention the damping factor on the concept 16.5 being over 450. Which I have found makes all the difference in the world how a amplifier can sound when driving headphones. A typical damping factor back in the late seventies and early eighties was less than 100. The concept 16.5 drives my akg 701 and lcd2 v2 in a matter that I have not heard from most any headphone amplifier regardless of cost. The concept 16.5 separates the detail on cds like no headphone amplifier I have heard of course the available power from a monster vintage receiver in the days of the power wars of receivers probably has something to do with this. Actually I am finding it hard to go back to my dedicated headphone amps. The concept just sounds so much better than any of my dedicated amps. But this thread is about the abyss headphone. I have only heard it once briefly ( actually very briefly at the axpona show a couple of years ago) so I can not make any opinoins about them.
     I just thought I would make some comments about amplifier speed after I  read this blog.


----------



## sathyam

Finally ordered one from Woo Audio. I should get it this week. I will be trying it with my Auralic Vega + Taurus MkII setup.


----------



## up late

buson160man said:


> Actually the speed of the sound can make a huge difference in the way a headphone sounds. I have recently discovered that when I purchased a recapped concept 16.5 monster vintage receiver recently. The blogs on the net about the concept vintage receivers aka late seventies mention the damping factor on the concept 16.5 being over 450. Which I have found makes all the difference in the world how a amplifier can sound when driving headphones. A typical damping factor back in the late seventies and early eighties was less than 100. The concept 16.5 drives my akg 701 and lcd2 v2 in a matter that I have not heard from most any headphone amplifier regardless of cost. The concept 16.5 separates the detail on cds like no headphone amplifier I have heard of course the available power from a monster vintage receiver in the days of the power wars of receivers probably has something to do with this. Actually I am finding it hard to go back to my dedicated headphone amps. The concept just sounds so much better than any of my dedicated amps. But this thread is about the abyss headphone. I have only heard it once briefly ( actually very briefly at the axpona show a couple of years ago) so I can not make any opinoins about them.
> I just thought I would make some comments about amplifier speed after I  read this blog.




ymmv


----------



## SoundFreaq

Alrighty guys, for the sake of all that is Abyss. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I adore the TH900. Best "closed" can, and a top longstanding favorite. The bass is excellent in both, and different. You're both right. 
  
 As visceral, joyous, and great fun as the Abyss bass is, it really doesn't go that low. My LAB I IEM does a cleaner job at 25Hz. TH900 bass is not as visceral because it is just so clean. Almost too clean. Like most BA bass could use a nice dose of distortion to fire 'em up! For as much quantity as TH900 has, it's not plump quite like Abyss. And I could agree that what we all love about the Abyss Bass is some sort of technically inaccurate distortion that makes it as such. It's a strange headphone to fit right.
  
 I would think the Abyss especially hard to measure, so I just use what my ears tell me. The TH900 bass is nothing like the Abyss bass. They are both excellent, different, and leaders of their class. 
  
 At the end of the day, it's hard to argue the Abyss bass isn't just boatloads of fun


----------



## koiloco

^ yes, but for sure not a $5000 boat of fun according to my ears, ofc.


----------



## up late

the th900's bass is definitely visceral to my ears and folks tend to describe it as more fun than analytical. it doesn't have that "meaty" sound that i hear with planar magnetic cans and it's mids are recessed.


----------



## SoundFreaq

koiloco said:


> ^ yes, but for sure not a $5000 boat of fun according to my ears, ofc.


 
  
 Ha! To each his own. It was one of those things for me, where it must be obtained, it just must. 
  


up late said:


> the th900's bass is definitely visceral to my ears and folks tend to describe it as more fun than analytical. it doesn't have that "meaty" sound that i hear with planar magnetic cans and it's mids are recessed.


 
  
 100% agreed. I did not mean to imply I thought TH900 was not visceral. Just not on the level of the Abyss. But then again, there's nothing out there that really is on that level.


----------



## mulder01

Just finalised my order for a pair of Abyss and a Violectric V281 amp.  Pretty excited!
  
 Cheers to Nomax for putting me onto the V281, without his recommendation I probably wouldn't have gone out of my way to try it.  It really is a very nice piece of equipment and reasonably priced.  Can't wait to get it.  I eagerly await the mailman...
  
  
 The issue of cost and "is it worth it" is a tricky one, and it gets bought up repeatedly in this thread.  The thing that put the Abyss over the line for me, from "there is no way in hell I'd ever buy that ridiculously priced thing" to "maybe one day I'd like to own a pair" to "here, take my deposit and put a pair aside for me" was mainly the fact that I think they're a long term solution to upgraditis - and upgraditis really gets at me something shocking once I get it, and I really don't like spending more time researching other products than just enjoying what I have.  I think that once I finally have a pair of Abyss on my head, I'll have a certain sense of calm and contentment over the long term that is rare to find in the AV industry.  I was talking to one of the salesmen at the Melbourne audio show about it on the weekend and he mentioned that one thing he has noticed about Abyss owners, is that when he tells them about such-n-such bringing out a new product, or they're really excited to be getting in the new whatever, they're just like "yeah, that's nice" in an almost indifferent sort of tone because they know it's not going to hold a candle to what they've already got...
  
 Another thing is, I'm not a multiple flagship headphone collector.  If I was, I would easily spend the price of the Abyss over a few separate purchases, but personally, I don't really have any desire to own 3 or 4 pairs of very good headphones over 1 excellent pair.  And at the end of the day, if I decide in 3 years time that I'm over this hobby and want to get into woodworking or motorbikes or golf or whatever, I don't think I'd have any trouble at all getting half their retail price for them second hand which means for the 3 years of enjoyment I've got out of them, it has cost me $3000.  That's $1000 a year, which is $20 a week.  I don't know of many hobbies or interests that can provide the level of enjoyment that the Abyss will give me and cost less than that over that period of time.  Weather you like golf or boating or remote control cars or whatever, it's not hard for anything at all to cost way more - heck I spend about $80 a week buying my lunch at work because I couldn't be bothered bringing it from home, but that doesn't seem as outrageous because you're not paying for it all in one lump sum.  I can also appreciate a product that has had a lot of research and development go into it, and something that has been engineered an manufactured to such a high standard over something like a big diamond or a louis vuitton handbag.  Anyway, I could think of a hundred less worthwhile ways you could spend $6000 (like a smoker spending that in a year or two on cigarettes) but I should stop rambling.  Some head fi'ers can appreciate the value in the Abyss just like a cyclist can see $6000 in a good road bike, or a photographer can see $6000 in a good camera.  Yes, there are perfectly acceptable options for a quarter of the cost, but if that's what you're into, then the choice to spend the extra is up to the individual and it is worth it to them.
  
 ...Anyways... just my point of view.  Or rather, how I've managed to justify it to myself anyway...


----------



## Fririce0003

Have to agree it does sate the upgradits, but then you think maybe I'll try the complete opposite to complement it... Keep eyeing off the BHSE and SR009 just so I can get the best of musicality and detail when either take my fancy. Then after that there's trying to replicate the abyss sound in speakers, now that's where it starts getting costly


----------



## mulder01

fririce0003 said:


> Have to agree it does sate the upgradits, but then you think maybe I'll try the complete opposite to complement it... Keep eyeing off the BHSE and SR009 just so I can get the best of musicality and detail when either take my fancy. Then after that there's trying to replicate the abyss sound in speakers, now that's where it starts getting costly


 
 Matt, you seem like you would be a bad influence on me.  haha


----------



## Fririce0003

mulder01 said:


> Matt, you seem like you would be a bad influence on me.  haha




Driving you to bankruptcy, debt collectors knocking at door. 
Slowly turns on music, "This is fine..."


----------



## mulder01

fririce0003 said:


> Driving you to bankruptcy, debt collectors knocking at door.
> Slowly turns on music, "This is fine..."


 
 Yeah you'd have to spend a LOT on speakers to match the Abyss's sound.  While I was at the AV show on the weekend I had a bit of a walk through a heap of speaker demo rooms and I heard a lot more expensive stuff that sounded not nearly as good as the Abyss.  I guess that experience helped justify the cost of them even more for me.  
  
 I used to be big on speakers but I live in a pretty built up area in a small house with a wife who has different music tastes and it just wasn't working out so they had to go, and that's when I got into headphones - you can listen to whatever you want however loud you want and not piss anyone off.  Also the sound quality per dollar is a lot better on headphones so I'm kinda happy I stumbled into this world actually.  The summit of headphone products is a lot more obtainable than the summit of speaker products too which is nice.


----------



## Fririce0003

mulder01 said:


> Yeah you'd have to spend a LOT on speakers to match the Abyss's sound.  While I was at the AV show on the weekend I had a bit of a walk through a heap of speaker demo rooms and I heard a lot more expensive stuff that sounded not nearly as good as the Abyss.  I guess that experience helped justify the cost of them even more for me.
> 
> I used to be big on speakers but I live in a pretty built up area in a small house with a wife who has different music tastes and it just wasn't working out so they had to go, and that's when I got into headphones - you can listen to whatever you want however loud you want and not piss anyone off.  Also the sound quality per dollar is a lot better on headphones so I'm kinda happy I stumbled into this world actually.  The summit of headphone products is a lot more obtainable than the summit of speaker products too which is nice.




That certainly is true, performance per dollar vs speakers was a big draw card for me too.
Wouldn't of happened to be the Melbourne audio and av show by any chance?
If it was I made the mistake of going to the A2A stand first, gotta drop by their store with my music server and WA5 tubes for a nice long listen to the tubes in the WA234 with the abyss  After that most of the speaker rooms were rather underwhelming. Though the Telos room on the too floor was nice, the prices not so much


----------



## up late

soundfreaq said:


> 100% agreed. I did not mean to imply I thought TH900 was not visceral. Just not on the level of the Abyss. But then again, there's nothing out there that really is on that level.




different sound signatures. one is a planar magnetic and the other a dynamic and that's how they sound to me. both are great at what they do.


----------



## up late

mulder01 said:


> Yeah you'd have to spend a LOT on speakers to match the Abyss's sound.  While I was at the AV show on the weekend I had a bit of a walk through a heap of speaker demo rooms and I heard a lot more expensive stuff that sounded not nearly as good as the Abyss.  I guess that experience helped justify the cost of them even more for me.
> 
> I used to be big on speakers but I live in a pretty built up area in a small house with a wife who has different music tastes and it just wasn't working out so they had to go, and that's when I got into headphones - you can listen to whatever you want however loud you want and not piss anyone off.  Also the sound quality per dollar is a lot better on headphones so I'm kinda happy I stumbled into this world actually.  The summit of headphone products is a lot more obtainable than the summit of speaker products too which is nice.




tho i'd never pay that kind of money for cans, looking for new speakers has made me appreciate the sound quality they deliver even more.


----------



## bmichels

Anyone heard *Abyss 1266 with the Eddie Curent 4-45 *? This combo was supposed to be used by Abyss at CanJam RMAF 2014.


----------



## Xecuter

Chengka has it and his 445 is up for sale, so it can't be THAT good a combo


----------



## Xecuter

I have uploaded some extensive notes from the recent Melbourne audio show and a visit to Fririce0003 where I had a chance to hear the abyss from the wa234, wa5, gs-x, lau and the v281.
 I hope you guys enjoy it:
  
  


Spoiler: LINK



http://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/2jxmj8/review_and_comparison_from_melb_audio_show/


----------



## mulder01

Interesting, I bet before you heard these combos you would not have thought you would like all 3 tube amps you tried better than all 3 solid state amps you tried...


----------



## Xecuter

Yeah I was pretty surprised. I mean the margin is so, so tiny though. Has your gear arrived?


----------



## mulder01

It has.  And it's awesome.  I do find it hard to take them off my head.  Just one more song, just one more song... The sound of them is really quite something else.
  
 But in the interest of fairness, I'll admit it was hard to get a good fit.  I have quite a big head and found that although you can bend the headband outwards, it didn't help because I just ended up with a massive gap at the bottom of my ears, because when you bend the headband out, the angle of the drivers bends out as well, so they are slightly pointing down, but my head is a bit v shaped as well, so the drivers ideally need to be facing upward a little, but if I bend them inward to get the right angle, they aren't wide enough.  I sorted it out by taking the headband off and doing some more forceful adjustments so they were wider and the vertical parts of the headband were angled inwards.  I mustn't be the only one with this issue because they fit my wife's head better too now.  And as you mentioned in your notes above, a good fit makes quite a bit off difference to the sound and  if you have a gap at the bottom of the earpads you lose some of your bass  - if I could give the makers of these one suggestion , it would be to offer an optional wider headband for melonheads like myself, where the minimum adjustment on them is the size of the maximum adjustment on the stock headband...  I would buy one   I mean, I got it sorted, but just a suggestion.
  
 Now they fit well though, they are really quite comfortable (way more comfortable than they look) and sound brilliant.  I am excited for you for when you get your pair!  I put them on my wife's head and she couldn't get the smile off her face.  And she doesn't care about headphones at all, so that's saying something.


----------



## Kiats

Glad you are enjoying it, Mulder01. I had the same problem when I first got it: it wouldn't leave my head during my waking hours... Pesky little critter!


----------



## rdreyer

mulder01 said:


> But in the interest of fairness, I'll admit it was hard to get a good fit.  I have quite a big head and found that although you can bend the headband outwards, it didn't help because I just ended up with a massive gap at the bottom of my ears, because when you bend the headband out, the angle of the drivers bends out as well, so they are slightly pointing down, but my head is a bit v shaped as well, so the drivers ideally need to be facing upward a little, but if I bend them inward to get the right angle, they aren't wide enough.  I sorted it out by taking the headband off and doing some more forceful adjustments so they were wider and the vertical parts of the headband were angled inwards.


 
 I have a very wide head, and had similar problems initially with the Abyss. The metal headband was fully stretched out, and the sides of the headphones were bent way outwards, to relieve clamping. The leather headband was spread almost fully horizontally, and not conforming to my head. JPS Labs first sent me a leather headband with looser elastics, and then extended the metal headband by half an inch. This solved all my issues, and I can now wear the Abyss for hours without discomfort. In fact, they are by far my most comfortable headphones.
  
 Renaud


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> That certainly is true, performance per dollar vs speakers was a big draw card for me too.
> Wouldn't of happened to be the Melbourne audio and av show by any chance?
> If it was I made the mistake of going to the A2A stand first, gotta drop by their store with my music server and WA5 tubes for a nice long listen to the tubes in the WA234 with the abyss
> 
> ...


 

 My feeling also, I thought that the average sound at the show was disappointing, by far and away the best sound was the DaVinci/Woo 234/Abyss combination. Really wished I hadn't listened to it as I have ended buying the DaVinci and most likely the Woo 234's. Damn. I agree re getting out of the upgrading cycle it makes sense to make a few sacrifices now and go to straight to endgame directly. My partner refused to listen to the Abyss based on its looks - apparently I looked like Frankenstein....!
  
 I hope I can spend some more time with the Abyss, wished I lived in Melbourne, although I can see with A2A round the corner it would become expensive!


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> My feeling also, I thought that the average sound at the show was disappointing, by far and away the best sound was the DaVinci/Woo 234/Abyss combination. Really wished I hadn't listened to it as I have ended buying the DaVinci and most likely the Woo 234's. Damn. I agree re getting out of the upgrading cycle it makes sense to make a few sacrifices now and go to straight to endgame directly. My partner refused to listen to the Abyss based on its looks - apparently I looked like Frankenstein....!
> 
> I hope I can spend some more time with the Abyss, wished I lived in Melbourne, although I can see with A2A round the corner it would become expensive!




Oh wow, must be happy with that purchase, the DaVinci is a wonderful DAC! Ends up being cheaper and more enjoyable going the end game route as soon as possible, the DaVinci and WA234 is certainly end game worthy too. Though I'm sure once the DAC comes in you'll have to convince your wife to listen to one song, that's all it'll take


----------



## isquirrel

I am sure she will as she loves music, its funny how turned off she was by the aesthetics of the Abyss. I have a feeling though that if she spent some time with them it would be a different matter.
  
 In the meantime I had a to buy a 2nd pair of LCD-3's for her and the same Nordost cables......


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> I am sure she will as she loves music, its funny how turned off she was by the aesthetics of the Abyss. I have a feeling though that if she spent some time with them it would be a different matter.
> 
> In the meantime I had a to buy a 2nd pair of LCD-3's for her and the same Nordost cables......




 I'm still surprised how worked up people get about the looks, they're not the best looking, but you can't see them whilst they're on. And I don't think they'd make particularly good portable cans 
 Oh well buying new gear is always a good bit of fun, nothing beats that feeling of that drive home with a new pair of cans. Also wouldn't mind if Nordost expanded their headphone cable range, some Valhalla cables might go nicely with the abyss


----------



## Xecuter

Yeah the design actually allows a large amount of ergonomic tailoring especially since you can adjust clamp width, cup seal and can ask JPS to customize if you have some odd anatomy.
  
 If you are worried about how good you'll look with them on, then maybe ponder why you are actually buying high-end headphones..


----------



## up late

if you think audiophiles spend big bucks on high end gear based on sound alone then you should think again


----------



## Fririce0003

up late said:


> if you think audiophiles spend big bucks on high end gear based on sound alone then you should think again




If only that weren't the case, imagine if they could just put it in a simple case that does the job and spend the rest on the actual design...
 For me personally it goes; sound quality, build quality, features, usability and then it being aesthetically pleasing is just a bonus. Price to performance is also up there but is easily swayed by a combination of aspects :S


----------



## up late

if it was just spent on a design that produced good sound then the high-end probably wouldn't exist.  personally i'm attracted to gear that sounds and looks good.


----------



## mulder01

I think it definitely helps if stuff looks nice.  Abyss have kinda shot themselves in the foot in that department.  I mean, the look may appeal to some, but I think the majority of people (even the ones that bought a pair) would prefer if it looked a little nicer.  And when you're spending that sort of money, you kinda have a right to be fussy.  They look badass sitting on the stand, but you do look a little frankenstien-ey when they're on your head.


----------



## sathyam

mulder01 said:


> I think it definitely helps if stuff looks nice.  Abyss have kinda shot themselves in the foot in that department.  I mean, the look may appeal to some, but I think the majority of people (even the ones that bought a pair) would prefer if it looked a little nicer.  And when you're spending that sort of money, you kinda have a right to be fussy.  They look badass sitting on the stand, but you do look a little frankenstien-ey when they're on your head.




This is like deja vu over and over. These headphones are ugly. Even people who own these HPs agree. Debate over. Pages over pages of the same set of comments, that it is butt ugly is not helpful in this impressions thread. If you feel the need to vent about the looks of this headphone, why don't you create another thread?


----------



## up late

lose the attitude. mulder01 is a new abyss owner and is entitled to express his opinion about any aspect of the can he likes. he also happens to be reasonable about it.


----------



## isquirrel

I doubt its going to be helpful to Abyss to start a thread titled - Ugliest Headphones


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> I doubt its going to be helpful to Abyss to start a thread titled - Ugliest Headphones




 I would've said there are headphones just as unsightly... But then I remembered the custom design featured a couple posts ago...


----------



## isquirrel

I am waiting to see what Audeze come up with the prototype Z before making a decision to go with the Abyss. In the meantime I would like to spend some time with the Abyss so I guess that means a call to George at A2A...


----------



## Xecuter

Yeah the LCD-Z will be tricky to get a good amp match with. If the Apex teton can do it well I'll have a good enough excuse to get a good OTL amp!


----------



## mulder01

isquirrel said:


> I am waiting to see what Audeze come up with the prototype Z before making a decision to go with the Abyss. In the meantime I would like to spend some time with the Abyss so I guess that means a call to George at A2A...


 
 If you make that call, I think you will be walking away with a pair.  
  
 I mean, it only makes sense as the next logical step if you end up with the wa234...


----------



## isquirrel

mulder01 said:


> If you make that call, I think you will be walking away with a pair.
> 
> I mean, it only makes sense as the next logical step if you end up with the wa234...


 

 Made the call...


----------



## Audio Jester

isquirrel said:


> Made the call...


 ROFL... And are you poorer for it?


----------



## mulder01

Have you spent any time with the Abyss Audio Jester?  Not your cup of tea?


----------



## Xecuter

isquirrel said:


> Made the call...


 

 Congrats man!


----------



## Audio Jester

mulder01 said:


> Have you spent any time with the Abyss Audio Jester?  Not your cup of tea?


 

 I think you misunderstood my comment. I was wondering if isquirrel had bought one.
  
 I have not heard the Abyss.  I plan to but I don't have easy access to one.


----------



## sathyam

I had received my Abyss a week back. These headphones are highly addictive. I haven't watched any TV since I got these. All the albums that I thought previously boring and lifeless have opened up now. You feel like the band is sitting around you playing just for you! Truly 3D soundstage. These are for Stereo recordings. When you put on Binaural recordings, it becomes truly stunning and eerie. I have looked begins my back once our twice to see if there was someone there.

Personally I like the biker vibes of the Abyss. When I put them on the first time, my wife suggested that I look like a Cyber Man from Doctor Who!


----------



## bmichels

sathyam said:


> I had received my Abyss a week back. These headphones are highly addictive. I haven't watched any TV since I got these. All the albums that I thought previously boring and lifeless have opened up now. You feel like the band is sitting around you playing just for you! Truly 3D soundstage. These are for Stereo recordings. When you put on Binaural recordings, it becomes truly stunning and eerie...!




I am happy for you that you enjoy So much your toy. Can you tell what source and amp you use with it.


----------



## Kiats

Congrats, Sathyam! Yes, it is a truly wonderful can.


----------



## sathyam

bmichels said:


> I am happy for you that you enjoy So much your toy. Can you tell what source and amp you use with it.


 
  
 Here's the source chain I have been using: Dell Laptop (JRiver 20) --> Schiit Wyrd --> Auralic Vega DAC --> Auralic Taurus MKII --> Abyss (4 pin XLR).


----------



## Fririce0003

Went in to Addicted to Audio today to pick up my woo transport and thought I'd bring in my Abyss, some tubes and my music server to test out a little something....
 Bad idea, after this I don't think I'll be making any purchases for a fair while, struggling by on these apprentice wages :S


----------



## Xecuter

How was the wa234 with your tubes?


----------



## Fririce0003

xecuter said:


> How was the wa234 with your tubes?




Kinda wishing I hadn't brought them in, major step up from the stock tubes, more resolving, bigger, deeper soundstage, better extension, much faster and heaps more bass control. Changing out the tubes in the 234 had more of an effect than rolling the WA5, just goes to show how resolving it is. Can't wait to try out some 45 tubes though, read from a few sources that they're the king of SET if output power isn't an issue. 
Think A2A will be pretty happy though, 2 WA234 sales within a month, well after mine gets priced. I'm getting a pre amp output and xlr loop out installed on mine


----------



## Xecuter

Congrats bro, if you're selling any of your old gear. PM me.
  
 I'll have to make a trip down to hear this thing! Congrats again!


----------



## Fririce0003

xecuter said:


> Congrats bro, if you're selling any of your old gear. PM me.
> 
> I'll have to make a trip down to hear this thing! Congrats again!




Thanks man, you're welcome down anytime. 
 No gear to sell just yet, A2A offered me a trade in for the WA5, since they were thinking about getting one on the floor for demo, which was what ended up convincing me to pull the trigger on the upgrade.


----------



## isquirrel

Congratulations on your amp purchase, we will have to compare notes when we get them to get them humming.
  
 When do you get yours?


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> Congratulations on your amp purchase, we will have to compare notes when we get them to get them humming.
> 
> When do you get yours?




Thanks, not quite sure how long but I think around 7 weeks, just waiting for George to get back to me on a final price. Trading in my WA5 and getting a preamp and xlr loop out added, but once the price is finalised I'll be right on it 
 Definitely got to exchange tube rolling notes, there's just so many options and combinations available, plus it seems very responsive to tube changes. Just goes to show how resolving it is, I just hope Jack doesn't come out with a new TOTL any time soon... Not sure if my bank account can take another hit like this :S


----------



## isquirrel

I was stunned at how good the amp sounded with the stock tubes in it, I am looking forward to getting the best out of it. Jack told me that he preferred the Cathode plate with the 300B for the Audeze's not sure about the Abyss.
  
 You going Cardas or JPS cables?


----------



## Fririce0003

Hmm the cathode plate should have a nicer sound but less power from what I've read, it'll be good to try out all the difference output modes. The plate output had more than enough for the Abyss so I'll have to give the cathode a go and report in.
As for cables, I'm going cardas clear so far, haven't had the chance to hear the JPS cables. They do look really nice though. So far I was planning to go for cardas clear all round for my speakers and headphone rig then upgrade the headphone rig to Valhalla.
Which cables are you planning to run?


----------



## isquirrel

I was using the High Z plate with the Abyss and LCD-3's I thought it sounded great but perhaps it was a little hot, I could only get the volume to 8-9 o'clock.
  
 I have been using Nordost Heimdall 2's but listened to the LCD-3's with the Cardas Clear, I bought a set home with me and I am listening to them now, I prefer hem, they sound rich and full with plenty of texture but they still have good detail. Prior to hearing these I thought Cardas sounded a bit dark but I am going Clear for the whole setup including balanced IC's.
  
 I noticed A2A was using the Cardas power cables but I have a Shunyata setup so will stick with that.


----------



## Fririce0003

Yeah when I tried it out I think I was using low-z plate 10 o'clock was absolute max I'd go. 
The shunyata power cables look really nice too, rather thick though. Decided to play it safe so far and just go with the cardas since it's the only cables I've been able to demo. Pretty happy with the choice though, they had some other cables at A2A when I went in which were sent to them as a demo box to try out before stocking them. Can't quite remember the company but compared to the clear IC's they were very sibilant which covered up a lot of the details, apart from that the cardas sounded more neutral comparatively and much more dynamic and full. I'm sure I'll be happy with them even as an end game cable.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Any news about an Abyss's little brother ? Something less expensive but with 90% of the SQ ?

 Ali


----------



## mulder01

Was there such an announcement made?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

It was in the air when the Abyss was released, and a reseller on a french forum says it is still planned. I may be interested, so I ask for more information.

Ali


----------



## bmichels

Anymore feedback about ABYSS + EddieCurent 445 ?

Finaly, Is the EC amp powerfull enough to get the most out of the ABYSS ?


----------



## bozebuttons

ali-pacha said:


> Any news about an Abyss's little brother ? Something less expensive but with 90% of the SQ ?
> 
> Ali


 

 I spoke with Joe at RMAF & he said that he was thinking about releasing a less expensive brother to the abyss with a more conventional
 headband . No time frame or price has been determined yet.


----------



## Nomax

My NEW AMP

MOON NEO&ABYSS=STATE OF THE ART




REGARDS NOMAX


----------



## wink

Nomax does it again......


----------



## plakat

Yes... and he's actively trying to talk me into getting an Abyss... resistance is futile I guess 
  
@Nomax let us know how things are going... your first comment on the combination was promising...


----------



## mulder01

If it helps, I can vouch for the Abyss too


----------



## Kiats

mulder01 said:


> If it helps, I can vouch for the Abyss too




+1. Fantastic can!


----------



## Nomax

Member PLAKAT will translate later my IMPRESSIONS about this DREAM TEAM because my english is not good enough

Regards NOMAX


----------



## plakat

Thanks to both @Kiats and @mulder01 -- you're no good to my wallet 
  


nomax said:


> Member PLAKAT will translate later my IMPRESSIONS about this DREAM TEAM because my english is not good enough
> 
> Regards NOMAX


 
  
 I'll be happy to help out as good as I can. Just PM me and I'll have a look / translate as soon as possible.


----------



## NinjaHamster

Did anyone ever find out more about that garish "custom paint" Abyss they did - ie. how much it cost, whether it was for a rapper or a drug dealer etc ?


----------



## Butler

ninjahamster said:


> Did anyone ever find out more about that garish "custom paint" Abyss they did - ie. how much it cost, whether it was for a rapper or a drug dealer etc ?




You can't criticize the manufacture's rather laughable reasoning for why it costs so much or your post will get deleted. 
Just like the ones who posted in this thread that brought to light the incident where he was caught rebranding and selling low grade cable as high grade cable. 

Abyss is a sponsor after all. 

I have no idea how people can justify buying these or find their "Hot Topic meets Walmart" aesthetic attractive.


----------



## mulder01

butler said:


> You can't criticize the manufacture's rather laughable reasoning for why it costs so much or your post will get deleted.
> Just like the ones who posted in this thread that brought to light the incident where he was caught rebranding and selling low grade cable as high grade cable.
> 
> Abyss is a sponsor after all.
> ...


 
  
 He was referring to the purple and gold custom build with the snakeskin leather, (see recent images) not the Abyss in general.  
  
 Now that I have a pair, I can see why it's designed the way it is - the idea is to have the ear pads only slightly touching your head, and with a traditional sprung headband setup you can't get that.  You need a rigid frame to hold the drivers in the right position out from your head, but also have it adjustable and supported vertically.  Admittedly I'm not a big fan of the headband, but had a think about what you could do to achieve the same effect and there's really no easy way to do it.
  
 As far as the cost is concerned, when I was looking for high end headphones, I got to listen to a whole heap of different cans from different manufacturers and found the Abyss to be significantly better than everything else as far as sound quality is concerned.  Obviously the price reflects that, and the law of diminishing returns kicks in at the summit of any product range, but if I went for a lesser headphone, I would always be wondering what I was missing out on and probably work my way through a bunch of other flagships and wind up spending the same amount of money anyway.  I went straight for the top and bought an Abyss and Violectric amp which cost me AU$8k.  Which is a lot more than I ever planned on spending I admit, but if you add up the cost of all the gear you own and have owned, I'd say you've spent a similar amount of money and will continue to spend more as the years go by, so at the end of the day, you've forked out just as much as I have.  Plenty of people go out and buy something like a HD800 or LCD3 then spend easily $5k or more on amps and tweaks over the years to try and get the most out of them, end up spending more than they would on an Abyss, and end up with a system that still doesn't sound as good.  On the other hand, you have people that have an income of $300k a year, so to spend a weeks pay on something you love isn't unreasonable at all.  
  
 As far as cables go, all expensive cables are just cheap cable rebranded to look fancy anyway... (IMO)


----------



## plakat

@mulder01 that has some truth to it (both the main body of your argument as well as the statement regarding cables 
  
 The only objection I'd have with going straight to the top is that in my opinion I've learned a lot along the way: I can now appreciate the better gear I purchased over the last few years more. To me hearing is something that must be trained. That training may well change perception as well as preferences -- I don't know whether I would have liked the K812 or the T1 when starting out.
  
 But I can understand your stance. And from a financial perspective its the smart thing to do.
  
 So, given that I already own a V281... I guess the only step left is the Abyss...


----------



## mulder01

Yeah I agree with you to a point.  
  
 I actually did have a pair of Ultrasone's which I sold a while ago which is what got me interested in high end headphones.
  
 I've been a lover of high end audio for a while (previously more so speakers) and can appreciate the Abyss on a certain level (much more than your regular non-audio lovers), but I know what you mean about some people having a lot more experience with their listening.  I can't, for example, listen to a pair of headphones, then listen to something else a week later and describe the differences in sound to you - I normally have to do a direct comparison between two or more things at the same time and switch back and forward between them.  One thing I noticed about the Abyss is I don't have to do a direct comparison because they are _that_ much better.  
  
 I've found since I've owned them that they are probably about as good as you need a pair of headphones to be - there is quite a low percentage of recordings that actually show what they are capable of.  I guess we're at a point where they reproduce everything so well, that you have gear that is better than what is in a lot of studios and any imperfections just flow right on through.  Having said that, I think there are much less forgiving headphones out there, but I think that this is the point where you don't need anything better because the limiting factor is the recording, not the headphone.  
  
 In my opinion they are an especially good choice if you already have a v281, or a Mjolnir like Butler, because you don't need to buy any other gear, just the headphone, where as a 009 (the other popular choice in this price range) really needs a minimum of a $5k electrostat amp which most people don't just have sitting around...


----------



## plakat

mulder01 said:


> Yeah I agree with you to a point.
> 
> I actually did have a pair of Ultrasone's which I sold a while ago which is what got me interested in high end headphones.
> 
> ...


 

 I did not want to give you the impression that I think you don't have enough experience to enjoy the Abyss, that was meant more as a general remark. Still I enjoyed my path including its (few) missteps, but I can understand getting the gear considerations out of the way and back to enjoying music without any worries whether it could be better.
  
 Regarding sonic memory: research shows that its very short lived. I don't think I could give more than impressions after some time... I do remember the overall signature (aggressive, smooth, strong bass, piercing etc.) but the details are not exact enough to do any reliable comparison.
  
 The Stax models never impressed me, maybe due to my musical preferences... So I think going forward will lead to the Abyss rather sooner than later. And yes: already having an amp that is capable of driving it is a definitive advantage vs. Stax.


----------



## bmichels

Now that I have received my Eddie Current EC445 tube amp I am looking fora TOL "Open Headphone" for it.  Indeed, I have so far only "closed headphone" (TH900 & ED5).   
  
 So... I am looking for feedback about the combination *"ABYSS + EddieCurent **445"**. *
  
*Good synergy ?* Is the EC445 amp *powerfull enough* to get the most out of the ABYSS ? (I heard that SS amp are better to drive ABYSS )
  
 thanks in advance


----------



## Hun7er

I answer you on another topic and I hope you know I'm joking.
  
 The synergy will be excellent with your 445. 
 I have an DNA Stratus 2x2A3 and EC 4x2A3 and they have enough enough...enough power. It's not only a question of power.
  
 With SS amps maybe you win on bass slam and tightness but you lose on organic and texture and others stuff.


----------



## bmichels

hun7er said:


> I answer you on another topic and I hope you know I'm joking.
> 
> The synergy will be excellent with your 445.
> I have an DNA Stratus 2x2A3 and EC 4x2A3 and they have enough enough...enough power. It's not only a question of power.
> ...


 
  
  
 thanks and...I vote for " organic and texture " rather than " bass slam and tightness ".    
  
 Have you compared ABYSS with the HD800 that is supposed to be very good wit the 445 according to Craig ? Is the ABYSS really a step-up ?


----------



## Hun7er

Yes I compared them within 3-4 months and ended up with the Abyss. IMO the HD800 sounded rather sterile and have an unnatural spherical soundstage. But the Abyss it's not worth the french price.


----------



## bmichels

hun7er said:


> Yes I compared them within 3-4 months and ended up with the Abyss. IMO the HD800 sounded rather sterile and have an unnatural spherical soundstage. But the Abyss it's not worth the french price.


 
  
 and no "comfort "issue with the ABYSS ?


----------



## Hun7er

bmichels said:


> and no "comfort "issue with the ABYSS ?


 
 After muscle your neck and fitted him well no confort issue.


----------



## Fririce0003

bmichels said:


> thanks and...I vote for " organic and texture " rather than " bass slam and tightness ".
> 
> Have you compared ABYSS with the HD800 that is supposed to be very good wit the 445 according to Craig ? Is the ABYSS really a step-up ?




I will quickly add that you don't necessarily lose out on bass slam and tightness with tubes. I had the abyss running out of the headamp GS-X Mk2, WA5 and WA234. Both the tube amps actually had more weight, slam and tightness. The only winning point going to the GS-X for me was detail retrieval since it's more forward, and that's only compared to the WA5. 
I'd also say the 445 would be even better for tightness and speed than the WA5 due to the tube complements used in each.
 Also having owned a pair of HD800's for quite sometime, I've since sold them after purchasing the abyss. Sure the HD800 has a larger soundstage but it's etched and mechanical in comparison. There's just something that sounds off with it compared to the abyss. The abyss still has that level of detail it's just more enjoyable for me, if you prefer an analytical listen I'd go with the SR009. But to enjoy the music as a whole I prefer the abyss.


----------



## mulder01

bmichels said:


> thanks and...I vote for " organic and texture " rather than " bass slam and tightness ".
> 
> Have you compared ABYSS with the HD800 that is supposed to be very good wit the 445 according to Craig ? Is the ABYSS really a step-up ?


 
  
 I preferred the Abyss over the HD800 by MILES.  Mind you, I only heard them both off solid state amps not the 445 - the HD800 is way too in-your-face for my tates.  It might be a bit more rounded off running off tubes though.  If you like the HD800's sound, I'm not sure if the Abyss would be to your tastes (from my limited experience anyway).  My second choice if I didn't get the Abyss would have been an LCD-X, or if it wasn't for comfort issues, a TH-900.  To my ears, the HD800 and Abyss are totally different types of sound.


----------



## plakat

If you heard any squeaking noises today... don't worry: that was just my wallet. In exchange for the contents of my wallet an Abyss is on its way to me. I sure hope it is at least as good as everyone says


----------



## isquirrel

plakat said:


> If you heard any squeaking noises today... don't worry: that was just my wallet. In exchange for the contents of my wallet an Abyss is on its way to me. I sure hope it is at least as good as everyone says


 

 Congratulations, looking forward to your impressions


----------



## Nomax

plakat said:


> If you heard any squeaking noises today... don't worry: that was just my wallet. In exchange for the contents of my wallet an Abyss is on its way to me. I sure hope it is at least as good as everyone says




THATS GREAT!!THE THIRD OWNER IN AUSTRIA of the AB1266 

REGARDS NOMAX


----------



## plakat

isquirrel said:


> Congratulations, looking forward to your impressions


 
  
 Believe me -- I do as well 
 bought it blind on @Nomax heartily recommendation. And he can be quite persuasive 
  


nomax said:


> THATS GREAT!!THE THIRD OWNER IN AUSTRIA of the AB1266
> 
> REGARDS NOMAX


 
  
 We should all three meet at some time, get a drink.


----------



## Kiats

plakat said:


> If you heard any squeaking noises today... don't worry: that was just my wallet. In exchange for the contents of my wallet an Abyss is on its way to me. I sure hope it is at least as good as everyone says




Congratulations!


----------



## icebear

plakat said:


> Believe me -- I do as well
> bought it blind on @Nomax heartily recommendation. And he can be quite persuasive
> ....


 
  
 I hope you don't have a sensitive skull and can wear the Abyss for a prolonged period of time.
 It's a serious piece of metal work and comes with some hefty weight.
 You didn't do any weight lifting training with any Audeze it looks like.
 If that weight is not a problem for you, you are in for a treat, congrats! ... and sorry for your wallet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## SoundFreaq

plakat said:


> If you heard any squeaking noises today... don't worry: that was just my wallet. In exchange for the contents of my wallet an Abyss is on its way to me. I sure hope it is at least as good as everyone says


 

 Congrats, man! Of course we can converse about the accuracy, and whether or not it is worth the expense, but at the end of the day, the Abyss is far and away the most enjoyable piece of audio gear I've ever heard. So, that's a priceless value to me. I think you'll enjoy! It's also the only headphone I've heard that, when I finally heard it, despite all the hype, was still completely blown away : )


----------



## mulder01

Congrats plakat!  The day your Abyss comes in the mail is a good day 
  
 Quote:


bmichels said:


> and no "comfort "issue with the ABYSS ?


 
 My head gets a little sore where the headband sits if I wear them for a while but I think I have a pretty sensitive head - I get the same dull sensation if I wear glasses with any pressure on the frames pressing against my head.  Wouldn't be surprised if that problem was unique to me though.  My listening sessions are generally pretty short so it's not really a big problem.  Couldn't wear them all day though. It could probably be fixed by putting a bit of padding under the leather strap but it hasn't annoyed me enough to try it out.
  
 Also, to get a proper fit around my ears I had to do some pretty forceful adjustments of the headband which was a bit of a pain but they have a really nice fit around my ears now.


----------



## Nomax

SPECIAL THANKS to MEMBER PLAKAT for translate my german words


Dear friends,

some may already know me, others don't. This is not may main playing field due to my lack of knowledge of the language. Sorry for that.

As I may call quite a lot of headphones my own, am still enthusiastic about this hobby even after 20 years and have contact with some makers and developers, I've seen and heard quite a bit over the years that excited or disappointed me.

I've never been a fan of planar magnetic headphones. I knew the Audeze LCD3, but have to say that for USD ~2000 the comfort, fit and finish was rather disappointing (earpads mounted with double-sided tape in that price range -- NO Chance!)

On to the Abyss!
Crazy Americans... another planar magnetic headphone, was my first thought when I saw the early photos on the net. Which idiot is going to buy that? Me? USD 5500,- for a planar magnetic headphone???

One day my local dealer came into play and said, he had never seen something that ugly, but at the same time extraordinary and unique, as this headphone.

Which was the main reason for me to invest $5500: in the premium segment I value uniqueness above other things.


Regarding comfort
I came to a perfect solution by watching Joe's video and bending the headband in/out. 660 gramm can be astoundingly comfortable, even for a longer time.

Personally I'd whished for a second set of earpads in velour, or memory foam for the leather pads.


Regarding sound
To me personally the Abyss is less of a headphone but more of a speaker. I'm still having a hard time putting into words what the AB1266 offers in musical performance.

Tyll of Innerfidelity said, its funny to listen to the Abyss.

Yes, its really fun, my friends, it puts a smile on my face again and again -- and thats what its all about for me: that an extraordinary product gives me joy for a long time, by its workmanship and its sound.

Now on to the MOON NEO 430 HA!

Its a beauty!

A perfect all-in-one solution, perfect sounding DAC, crossfeed, remote control, digital volume control (WOW! a real hammer!), enough power for my ABYSS and all my other headphones!

The only negative point is the rather cheap plastic remote, besides that everything is top!

For everyone looking for a lower priced solution and is willing to abandon some of the features of the MOON NEO, I can recommend the Violectric V281, which does very well with the ABYSS.

I think I've arrived at my final destination and found my DREAM TEAM:
MOON NEO/ABYSS-BEAUTY&BEAST=STATE OF THE ART

Kind regards

NOMAX


----------



## David1961

mulder01 said:


> In my opinion they are an especially good choice if you already have a v281, or a Mjolnir like Butler, because you don't need to buy any other gear, just the headphone, where as a 009 (the other popular choice in this price range) really needs a minimum of a $5k electrostat amp which most people don't just have sitting around...




Yes imo the 009's do sound better with a $5000 amp which in my case is the BHSE, ( mine is the $6000 version ) but they also sound good with a lesser in cost amp like the SRM-717, just not to the level as with the BHSE, but wouldn't it also be the same regarding the Abyss, or are you saying those headphones will sound just as good from using say a $2000 amp, to a $5000 amp.


----------



## bmichels

nomax said:


> I think I've arrived at my final destination and found my DREAM TEAM:
> MOON NEO/ABYSS-BEAUTY&BEAST=STATE OF THE ART
> 
> Kind regards
> ...


 
  
 I am happy for you that you found your perfect Solution.   What source are you using ?  (PC/Mac ? Music server ? streamer ?....)


----------



## Nomax

bmichels said:


> I am happy for you that you found your perfect Solution.   What source are you using ?  (PC/Mac ? Music server ? streamer ?....)




CD PLAYER

REGARDS NOMAX


----------



## Music Alchemist

Introducing: the *AB-1266 Lite*!
  


> I have some exciting news! We’ve created a new basic version of the AB-1266 package, called the AB-1266 Lite.
> 
> The JPS Labs dual balanced 3 pin XLR cable set and matching Y-adaptors, heavy leather man bag carry case, and Abyss headphone stand have been removed from the full kit. Included with the AB-1266 Lite version is the same AB-1266 headphone with lambskin ear pads, and a balanced 4 pin XLR cable and 1/4” (6.3 mm) adaptor, all in a very nice two-tone wood case.
> 
> ...


 


> Please note that this 'Lite' version is the exact same headphone as in the full AB-1266 package, minus the heavy leather man bag style carry case, minus the JPS Labs dual balanced 3 pin XLR cables and matching Y-adaptors, minus the Abyss headphone stand. Purchase the full AB-1266 Headphone set as a complete package if you seek any of these cool accessories; they are not sold separately.


----------



## up late

wow! only $4495 usd- bargain!


----------



## AnakChan

up late said:


> wow! only $4495 usd- bargain!


 
  
 A little tongue & cheek here huh . On it's own probably not but if I look at the Ultrasone Edition 5 LE's RRP, then this Abyss 1266 Lite is actually a bargain - relatively. Then again I don't have $4500 to spare...worse with the falling Yen


----------



## up late

yeah - humour is allowed here right?  the only thing lite about that can would be your bank account after you buy it. but i gotta keep reminding myself that this is the high-end.


----------



## AnakChan

up late said:


> yeah - humour is allowed here right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes of course. I should have clarified when I said "On its own, probably not" (a bargain). But at least for me comparatively to the Ed5LE and what one gets for their asking prices, the Abyss-1266 Lite seem to be better return on value.


----------



## Audio Jester

anakchan said:


> Yes of course. I should have clarified when I said "On its own, probably not" (a bargain). But at least for me comparatively to the Ed5LE and what one gets for their asking prices, the Abyss-1266 Lite seem to be better return on value.


 
 Yeah, What is up with the Edition 5 pricing?
  
 I honestly don't understand the rationale with the lite version of the Abyss, it seems that you are left with a headphone that will require you to purchase a cable to use it.  You might be able to get a cheaper one, but the extras that come with the standard version seem pretty decent for the price considering the various cable termination options.


----------



## AnakChan

audio jester said:


> Yeah, What is up with the Edition 5 pricing?
> 
> I honestly don't understand the rationale with the lite version of the Abyss, it seems that you are left with a headphone that will require you to purchase a cable to use it.  You might be able to get a cheaper one, but the extras that come with the standard version seem pretty decent for the price considering the various cable termination options.


 
  
 Actually a cable is included :-

 "Included with the AB-1266 Lite version is the same AB-1266 headphone with lambskin ear pads, and a balanced 4 pin XLR cable and 1/4” (6.3 mm) adaptor"
  
 But just not the dual balanced 3 pin XLR cable set and matching Y-adaptors. Presumably this dual balanced 3 pin XLR & matching Y-adaptors are of a higher grade than teh balanced 4 pin XLF with 1/4" adapter.


----------



## Music Alchemist

audio jester said:


> I honestly don't understand the rationale with the lite version of the Abyss, it seems that you are left with a headphone that will require you to purchase a cable to use it.  You might be able to get a cheaper one, but the extras that come with the standard version seem pretty decent for the price considering the various cable termination options.


 
  
 It was requested by various people.
  
 Any needed extra adapters and cables can be had on the cheap, for those who don't desire the luxury accessories.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Concerning cables and subjective value...
  
 From what I understand, all included cables and adapters are made of the same proprietary Alumiloy material, so they should be of equal "grade"...it's just a matter of which terminations you need, how particular you are about cable and adapter design, and if you fancy the case and stand.
  
 For reference, you can read about JPS Labs' cable design here and here.
  
 And for what it's worth, Joe told me this privately:
  


> On portable amps that have the squate 4 pin balanced outs or 3.5 mm you will need to purchase an aftermarket adaptor. This we do not supply bit there are plenty of companies making such, just stick with a copper based cable, no silver.


 
  
 I make no claims as to whether budget adapters and so on would decrease sound quality compared to the Alumiloy ones, but it is a considerably cheaper option which could appeal to those who originally requested this somewhat more economical alternative. (Then again, if you're spending $4.5K on a headphone, chances are an extra grand isn't going to be a problem.)
  
 I don't mind the decision to change the balanced stock headphone cable from dual 3-pin XLR (AB-1266) to single 4-pin XLR (AB-1266 Lite). Many headphone amplifiers come standard with balanced 4-pin XLR output. For some, this is ideal. For others such as myself who appreciate the luxury accessories, but would have an assortment of custom cables made either way, it's a moot point.
  
 I hope this cleared up some confusion about the cable issue.


----------



## mulder01

david1961 said:


> Yes imo the 009's do sound better with a $5000 amp which in my case is the BHSE, ( mine is the $6000 version ) but they also sound good with a lesser in cost amp like the SRM-717, just not to the level as with the BHSE, but wouldn't it also be the same regarding the Abyss, or are you saying those headphones will sound just as good from using say a $2000 amp, to a $5000 amp.


 
  
 Yeah, pretty much.  At the hifi show I went to with another member a little while back, we both preferred the Abyss on the Violectric v281 @ $2500 to the Cavalli Lau @ $5500.  I didn't spend much time with other $5k-ish amps because I couldn't afford them, but he spent some time with the Prautes and WA5 and said they were about 5% better.
  
 To be honest, I think you're one of the only people who said that the 009 is worth getting if you can only afford a cheaper amp.
  
 And I was just saying that some people do already have an amp at home that would be suitable for the Abyss so it makes that purchase a LITTLE BIT easier.
  
 Admittedly, I said to myself before I buy the Abyss I have to spend a bit of time with the 007 and 009, which a hifi store in Melbourne did have, and I was going to make an appointment to go and have a listen when I flew down, but I didn't end up having the time unfortunately.  I very briefly heard the 009 off a BHSE, and it was brilliant, but didn't give it too much consideration because an Abyss + V281 is $8k and a BHSE (with tube upgrade) + 009 is $14k (AUD) so the setup they had for it was nearly double the price, and had no other configurations available at the time.  And the thought of even spending 8k on headphones was sickening enough.
  
  


audio jester said:


> I honestly don't understand the rationale with the lite version of the Abyss, it seems that you are left with a headphone that will require you to purchase a cable to use it.  You might be able to get a cheaper one, but the extras that come with the standard version seem pretty decent for the price considering the various cable termination options.


 
  
 I think it's a good idea.  I don't actually like the 2x 3 pin XLR cable because I don't have that output on my amp so I have to use the Y adapter which is pretty bulky so the 4 pin XLR would suit me better.  I also have no interest in wearing a man bag, so it just went straight back in the box after I unpacked it.  The headphone stand is $49.95 on Amazon (minus the "Abyss" engraving) so yeah.  If I had the opportunity to get that option when I bought mine I would have jumped on it.  I've essentially paid an extra $1000 for a man bag that I don't use, a $50 stand and some less suitable cables.  Lucky me


----------



## David1961

mulder01 said:


> To be honest, I think you're one of the only people who said that the 009 is worth getting if you can only afford a cheaper amp.




I've never said the 009 is worth getting if only a cheaper amp can be afforded, I said they sound good driven by a SRM-717 which imo they do, just not as good as with the BHSE.
If I have said what you've quoted me saying, then please point it out.

If you're happy with your Abyss then that's fine with me, but taking the amp away the Abyss is more expensive than the 009's, and if the Apex Pinnacle was bought with the Abyss then that combo would be a lot more expensive than the 009/BHSE.


----------



## Music Alchemist

If I'm understanding these two links correctly...
  
http://www.thecableco.com/Product/AB-1266-Lite
http://www.thecableco.com/content.aspx?iid=5762
  
 ...I may be able to get the Abyss brand new for as low as $3,978!
  
 The ultimate irony is that I recently discovered I live just a few miles away from one of the five US Abyss dealers. XD


----------



## plakat

Thanks to @Kiats @icebear @SoundFreaq @mulder01 for your nice words. It'll be here either today or tomorrow and I enjoy the thought that my two decades long journey might end these days (well, sort of 
  
 Regarding the Abyss Lite: I think thats an interesting option as I can imagine that many people can live without some of the accessories. I, for one, would appreciate a 4-pin XLR cable (i.e. without adapter) since my V281 uses that connector type. Still I like the collection of adapters and the headphone stand.


----------



## mulder01

david1961 said:


> I've never said the 009 is worth getting if only a cheaper amp can be afforded, I said they sound good driven by a SRM-717 which imo they do, just not as good as with the BHSE.
> If I have said what you've quoted me saying, then please point it out.
> 
> If you're happy with your Abyss then that's fine with me, but taking the amp away the Abyss is more expensive than the 009's, and if the Apex Pinnacle was bought with the Abyss then that combo would be a lot more expensive than the 009/BHSE.


 
  
 Wot?
 You just said the 009 sounds good on a SRM-717
 So to me, that means that you think it's worth buying, yes?
 Or are you now telling me it sounds _pretty_ good, but don't actually buy it?
 In which case you've just proven my point that the Abyss is worth owning with a cheap(er) amp and the 009 maybe not-so-much
  
 Look, whatever - all I was saying was, a handful of people out there probably already own an amp which is suitable for the Abyss.  Maybe the SRM-717 is equally as suitable for the 009, but not many people would already own one.  Far out, I'm not trying to bag out the 009, it's great - I agree with you, I'm just pointing out that in some cases, the Abyss can be a much more affordable option for some people's next purchase if they're thinking of making the leap to an Abyss \ 009 system.  Especially if - as Music Alchemist has just pointed out - a pair can be had for just under $4k.


----------



## customcoco

music alchemist said:


> Introducing: the *AB-1266 Lite*!


 

 What's the point really ? A 1K$ rebate doesn't sound like much at all at this price point. The people who can afford the Lite are just the same ones who'll buy the Abyss.
  
 If I were in the market for one, and admitedly I'm not, I'd just go for the full blown version.
  
 It's simply not cheap enough to be appealing to someone who thought that the Abyss was too expensive in the first place.


----------



## mulder01

And now, with the light edition of the Abyss, it's no longer dearer than the 009.  
  
 You CAN get the version with extra accessories if you wish, which is dearer than the 009, but only because you're buying accessories with it.  
  
 If you compare apples with apples, the Abyss LE is now slightly cheaper than the 009 and has comparable stuff in the box.


----------



## mulder01

customcoco said:


> What's the point really ? A 1K$ rebate doesn't sound like much at all at this price point. The people who can afford the Lite are just the same ones who'll buy the Abyss.
> 
> If I were in the market for one, and admitedly I'm not, I'd just go for the full blown version.
> 
> It's simply not cheap enough to be appealing to someone who thought that the Abyss was too expensive in the first place.


 
  
 I think it will sell well.  At the end of the day, you want the headphones.  All the other stuff is pretty unimportant.


----------



## customcoco

mulder01 said:


> All the other stuff is pretty unimportant.


 
 On that we agree.
  
 Anyway, I still think that JPS could just get rid of all that metal, and replace it with some high-quality plastics.
  
 Call it a day, sell it for 2K and _then_ they'd have a best-seller.


----------



## plakat

I'm not so sure their concept can be realized using plastic... the frame is there for a reason and it has to be quite strong.


----------



## Audio Jester

Valid points about the cable. I very much look forward to trying the Abyss. Next year is going to be interesting.


----------



## arnaud

mulder01 said:


> Far out, I'm not trying to bag out the 009, it's great - I agree with you, I'm just pointing out that in some cases, the Abyss can be a much more affordable option for some people's next purchase if they're thinking of making the leap to an Abyss \ 009 system.  Especially if - as Music Alchemist has just pointed out - a pair can be had for just under $4k.


 
  
 Depends where you are really / how you buy gear. There are 2 SR009 for sale at a local store hear for 2500USD. The Abyss new in Europe is 6000USD through brick and mortar stores. These are the most extreme cases and Stax gear new through the blood sucking distributors / dealers is also bloody expensive in Europe so not really a sound argument but surely, the Abyss would be an expansive proposition once on these shores.
  
 Arnaud


----------



## David1961

mulder01 said:


> Wot?
> You just said the 009 sounds good on a SRM-717
> So to me, that means that you think it's worth buying, yes?
> Or are you now telling me it sounds _pretty_ good, but don't actually buy it?
> ...




Just because I said the 009's sound good with a SRM-717, doesn't mean I'd buy that amp, because I wouldn't, especially after hearing those Earspeakers with the BHSE and using the tubes I now use.

I've mentioned before that I owned a SRM-007t which at the time was driving the SR-007mk1's, and because I was so disappointed with how that amp drove the mk1's I got shut of them both.
I did order the BHSE before I let them both go, so the BHSE was ordered to drive the mk'1, but before I got the BHSE I heard the Esoteric K-01, and after hearing that source I knew I just had to have it, but the only way I could get the K-01 was to use both the SRM-007t & mk1's as part exchange.

I wasn't going to write on this thread anymore, but your post in which you say the 009's need a $5000 amp prompted me to reply.
To me it looks like that post of yours which I first replied to, is that you're trying to justify the ridiculous cost of the Abyss by saying the 009's need a $5000 amp.

Anyway, enjoy your Abyss like I enjoy my 009's.


----------



## icebear

music alchemist said:


> If I'm understanding these two links correctly...
> 
> http://www.thecableco.com/Product/AB-1266-Lite
> http://www.thecableco.com/content.aspx?iid=5762
> ...


 

 How about reading the content of the first link, especially the last part - or am I missing something ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
_*Our pricing for this product is the "MAP Pricing."  This means that the prices shown here are the "minimum advertised prices" permitted by the manufacturer. Because these are already the lowest prices possible,  the additional incentives usually available under  "Frequent Flyer" program do not apply to this item.*_


----------



## Music Alchemist

customcoco said:


> What's the point really ? A 1K$ rebate doesn't sound like much at all at this price point. The people who can afford the Lite are just the same ones who'll buy the Abyss.
> 
> If I were in the market for one, and admitedly I'm not, I'd just go for the full blown version.
> 
> It's simply not cheap enough to be appealing to someone who thought that the Abyss was too expensive in the first place.


 
  
 That's what I was getting at when I said
  


> (Then again, if you're spending $4.5K on a headphone, chances are an extra grand isn't going to be a problem.)


 
  
 It's just that many people in the summit-fi market also want to save money and get better value when they can, so if you don't want to pay an extra thousand dollars for a stand, case, and a few cable adapters, it makes the Abyss just a bit more appealing and accessible, especially if you were going to get a different stand and cables anyway.
  
 (Gotta say, though, that man bag case with the Abyss logo does look pretty nice.)
  


plakat said:


> I'm not so sure their concept can be realized using plastic... the frame is there for a reason and it has to be quite strong.


 
  
 Exactly.
  

  
 One of the reasons I decided to postpone getting electrostatic headphones (like the Orpheus HE 90, SR-009, SR-007, Float QA, etc.) is because I wanted the DIY T2 amp for them, which would probably set me back over $10K, and that's if I can find someone to build it for me in the first place. I do know a guy who's building them, but he's never done it before and I have no idea if it would be done right or how long it would take. I believe it's the most complex headphone amp of all time, and if you make a mistake, it could be dangerous due to even higher voltage than other electrostat amps. So while they can be driven with much more affordable amps, like you, I wanted something that brings the best out of them, hence, the backburner.
  


icebear said:


> How about reading the content of the first link, especially the last part - or am I missing something ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
_How did I miss that?!_




  
 Guess my mind subconsciously glossed over it. I had seen that disclaimer on the site too.
  
 Oh well. At this point, I had already decided on an amp that is ten times cheaper than the one I was considering prior ($1,699 vs $17,750), so even though the system based on components I've selected will still be very expensive, the total outlay is nowhere near as catastrophic.


----------



## mulder01

arnaud said:


> Depends where you are really / how you buy gear. There are 2 SR009 for sale at a local store hear for 2500USD. The Abyss new in Europe is 6000USD through brick and mortar stores. These are the most extreme cases and Stax gear new through the blood sucking distributors / dealers is also bloody expensive in Europe so not really a sound argument but surely, the Abyss would be an expansive proposition once on these shores.
> 
> Arnaud


 
  
 Wow, why such a big price difference?  Surely the 009 is second hand for $2500.  In any case, that would put a 009 + WES combo around the same price as a lower end Abyss combo, but there's no way I have seen that sort of pricing in Australia.


----------



## customcoco

plakat said:


> I'm not so sure their concept can be realized using plastic... the frame is there for a reason and it has to be quite strong.


 
 Hmm no actually.
  
 If you look at it carefully, the forces exerted on the frame itself are almost non-existent. I'm told that it has to be used with almost no clamping pressure, at least that was the case when I tried it, so there's none of that. Indeed, the only thing the frame has to do is to keep everything together, which plastic could easily do.
  
 I'm pretty sure that the only reason why they went for metal is because they dig its look. Or, not knowing whether their project would meet its target audience, they chose to machine every pair "on order" so as to minimize R&D costs (plastic molds can be outrageously expensive when done right).
  
 Also, I have to admit that it gives them a very "premium" heft. They feel very substantial in the hand, which is nice. It's not as nice once on the head, but then it's a matter of choosing one's poison.
  


music alchemist said:


> That's what I was getting at when I said
> 
> 
> It's just that many people in the summit-fi market also want to save money and get better value when they can, so if you don't want to pay an extra thousand dollars for a stand, case, and a few cable adapters, it makes the Abyss just a bit more appealing and accessible, especially if you were going to get a different stand and cables anyway.
> ...


 
 Even though I understand your obsessiveness, I can also be quite obsessive about the things I like, you don't have to go all the way to the mighty T2 to get a world class sound.
  
 In fact, a well-made KGSSHV might be all you need for an SR009.
  
 Objectively comparing the Abyss to 'stats would be pointless though, they're about as different as headphones get.


----------



## customcoco

mulder01 said:


> Wow, why such a big price difference?


 
 Two words : greedy distributors


----------



## Music Alchemist

customcoco said:


> Hmm no actually.
> 
> If you look at it carefully, the forces exerted on the frame itself are almost non-existent. I'm told that it has to be used with almost no clamping pressure, at least that was the case when I tried it, so there's none of that. Indeed, the only thing the frame has to do is to keep everything together, which plastic could easily do.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Even the basic product page will tell you that the steel is there for "integrated resonance control", not just looks or build or whatever. It's supposed to increase sound quality.
  
 As defender of the holy grail of sound quality (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), obsession is a prerequisite. I spent months learning all I could about the situation and concluded that I would accept no less than the DIY T2 for driving _all_ of my electrostatic headphones. What is necessary to get merely sufficient sound is beside the point of pursuing excellence. I don't expect others to share my uncompromising attitude.
  
 Which is why I want both, since they complement each other.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> Wow, why such a big price difference?  Surely the 009 is second hand for $2500.  In any case, that would put a 009 + WES combo around the same price as a lower end Abyss combo, but there's no way I have seen that sort of pricing in Australia.


 
  
 I just ran some numbers using the lowest new (not used) online prices of the two headphones and some of the popular summit-fi amps that pair with them in order to do a more in-depth comparison of their respective investments. (Assuming that both systems use the same additional components, such as DACs, these are the two financial factors to take into account.)
  
 Abyss AB-1266: $4,495 (but $5,495 with accessories)
 Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold: $3,950
 Eddie Current 2A3 MKIV: $4,200
 MASS-Kobo Model 394: ~$4,183
 Schiit Audio Ragnarok: $1,699
 Woo Audio WA234 MONO: $15,900 (or $17,750 fully upgraded)
  
 STAX SR-009: $2,882 (but $4,450 from STAX USA)
 Cavalli Audio Liquid Lightning 2: $4,250 (or $4,850 for 2T version)
 Eddie Current Electra: $4,000
 HeadAmp Blue Hawaii SE: $5,596 (or $6,596 with Alps RK50 rotary potentiometer)
 Woo Audio WES: $4,990 (or $8,170 fully upgraded)
  
 Here are the price ranges, using the least and most expensive combinations for each system.
  
 Abyss: $6,194 - $23,245
 SR-009: $6,882 - $12,620
  
 Conclusion #1: With the least costly summit-fi amps listed, and even when importing the SR-009 from Japan, the Abyss system can still be more affordable.
  
 Let's look again, this time with the combinations I would personally choose, regardless of price.
  
 AB-1266 Lite + Ragnarok: $6,194
 SR-009 + BHSE + RK50: $9,478 (or $11,046 at normal retail)
  
 Conclusion #2: Depending on preference, one system may be significantly more costly than the other...but generally, both may involve roughly the same investment.


----------



## customcoco

music alchemist said:


> Even the basic product page will tell you that the steel is there for "integrated resonance control", not just looks or build or whatever. It's supposed to increase sound quality.
> 
> As defender of the holy grail of sound quality (
> 
> ...


 
 That's marketing BS, nothing more.
  
 Don't forget that we're talking about guys that sell industrial wire wrapped in thick tech-flex high-end cables.
  
 Take a look at the HD800's frame for instance. It's about as resonance-free as it gets, yet it's extremely light. Made of what ? Well, since you asked, it's PLASTIC ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Besides, it's been created by perhaps the very best engineers in the industry working in a multi million-dollar facility with some of the most established know-how around within a company that couldn't care less about making monay out of its flagship sales.
  
 If plastic's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.
  
 I can understand the Go-Big or Go Home attitude, but it's audiophilia territory here.
  
 We're not trying to get men on Mars nor interrupting the Israelo-Palestinian conflict, we're on about enjoying headphones. Splitting hair about minute differences we might not even be able to tell in a DBX (don't worry though, I'm not one of the Sound-Science freaks ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I enjoy that bit just like you.).
  
 Obsession is nice when it leads to creativity or at least some kind of productivity, but we're stuck in the passive one.
  
 Go grab a nice fresh drink of your choice and lay down on the ground, look at the stars. How important is your DIY T2 now, in the grand scheme of things ?




 Poorly-written piece of stupid lyrical rant//


----------



## Music Alchemist

I prefer to avoid speculation.
  
 Don't worry, I'm not forcing anyone to make the same type of decisions as I. But for the record, I also plan on getting the HD 800 and many other headphones, albeit only after the Abyss and electrostats. I also considered getting an entry-level (like $500) electrostat system, but figured that since I would likely only get rid of it immediately after upgrading, it would be better to just save the money.


----------



## mulder01

That Stax price is unreal (by comparison)
 I would rush out and buy one... *if only I already owned an amp that could drive them... *


----------



## plakat

customcoco said:


> Hmm no actually.
> 
> If you look at it carefully, the forces exerted on the frame itself are almost non-existent. I'm told that it has to be used with almost no clamping pressure, at least that was the case when I tried it, so there's none of that. Indeed, the only thing the frame has to do is to keep everything together, which plastic could easily do.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Besides the fact that I prefer aluminium over plastic (not saying that plastic is an inferior material actually, just the feeling is not so nice), I do think that structural integrity is more important than you might imply here: the weight is held by the headband affixed to the frame. My faint memories of mechanical engineering lessons tell me that the force distributes through the frame, pulling it together. I.e. the frame has to withstand that force, given that no lateral pressure is to be applied to the head. So yes, I do think that the frame has to be stable and it might be more complicated to achieve that with plastic (not that it would break, but it has more of a tendency to bend vs. the construction JPS chose).
  
 But the argument about tooling might well have played into the decision as well... You may be right that the aluminium frame was simply much cheaper to produce in low quantities than a plastic one that has about the same properties.
  
 Regarding the Abyss vs. HD800 comparison: to me this is a classic example of American engineering vs. German engineering: full out vs. delicately decide what is necessary/useful and stick to that. I'm not into cars, but it looks a bit like Viper vs. Porsche  Both have their merits, yet completely different choices at every point.


----------



## Music Alchemist

More related info:
  


> A machined aluminum skeletal frame assembly provides excellent rigidity and controls resonances by *absorbing vibration more than any other headphone produced* for minimal coloration and a very high level of clarity to sound without brightness.


 
  
 That's a pretty clear claim. How true it is, I have no clue.
  
 But if resonance control in the context of headphone design is to be regarded as "marketing BS", then it applies to all other headphones as well. Not sure how you reached the assessment of it being "about as resonance-free as it gets" just from looking at it. That's another reason why I think speculation is pointless. We either have scientific proof of something or we simply don't know for sure.


----------



## mulder01

If you don't like the headband, why not just cover it up with a stylish hat?


----------



## arnaud

As a mechanical engineer, i can very much guarantee you the high strength plastic used in the hd 800 is miles better than aluminum in terms of self damping and weight vs desired stiffness of the frame.

I think the point about tooling is quite valid. Only a company like sennheiser could come up with the hd800 and the abyss is a total diy affair in comparison to that particular design and some others on the market.


----------



## customcoco

plakat said:


> Besides the fact that I prefer aluminium over plastic (not saying that plastic is an inferior material actually, just the feeling is not so nice), I do think that structural integrity is more important than you might imply here: the weight is held by the headband affixed to the frame. My faint memories of mechanical engineering lessons tell me that the force distributes through the frame, pulling it together. I.e. the frame has to withstand that force, given that no lateral pressure is to be applied to the head. So yes, I do think that the frame has to be stable and it might be more complicated to achieve that with plastic (not that it would break, but it has more of a tendency to bend vs. the construction JPS chose).
> 
> But the argument about tooling might well have played into the decision as well... You may be right that the aluminium frame was simply much cheaper to produce in low quantities than a plastic one that has about the same properties.
> 
> Regarding the Abyss vs. HD800 comparison: to me this is a classic example of American engineering vs. German engineering: full out vs. delicately decide what is necessary/useful and stick to that. I'm not into cars, but it looks a bit like Viper vs. Porsche  Both have their merits, yet completely different choices at every point.


 
 The problem is that the upper-headband's construction makes no sense from a mechanical viewpoint. If you think about it, all the forces exerted on the frame end their courses at the headband's weakest point, the screw assembly.
  
 It's just a very rudimentary way to build headphones, but also that happens to easily solve the sealing issue. Based on my short listening session with it on, a simple one-piece headband assembly wouldn't work with it.
  
 Again, IMHO, that headband's just a work-around the sealing issue. Since it was cheaper to get around it than it was to solve the problem itself, they went for it.
  
 It all depends on what you mean by "plastic". Reinforced plastics such as what we colloquially call "carbon fiber" offer a much better rigidity/weight ration than Aluminium ever will.
  
 But again, it's expensive and complicated to do it well. Much more so than machining alluminium from a billet.
  
 I think you're right about the analogy. The problem is that american muscle Cars aren't exactly recognised for their handling, they're just cheap muscle. They're getting better at each new generation though, but that's because the intelligent guys making them have finally understood that cars can indeed something better than just go fast in a straight line.
  
 My problem with the Abyss comes from _my_ limited view of how engineering should go.
  
 To me, engineering is about finding the most elegant and efficient solution to a defined problem within a restricted environement. "Throw more stuff at it until it works" doesn't sound like proper engineering to me.
  
 When I look at the abyss, I just can't get past the "what were they thinking" effect.
  
 That's just me, though.


music alchemist said:


> More related info:
> 
> 
> That's a pretty clear claim. How true it is, I have no clue.
> ...


 
  
 That's very clear indeed.
  
 What's also very clear is that I am God's son here to spread love and joy on Earth.
  
 Indeed, I'm about to introduce myself in Israel today, because I've been told that some people called "Jews" have been waiting for me for more than 2000 years. I'm sure that'll be one hack of a party. Hey, pretty jewish supermodels, here I come !
  
 Nobody can prove me worng yet nobody will believe me, will they ?
  
 Same goes for JPS' claims.
  
 I got the assessment that the HD800 (along with many, if not most, high-end headphones) manages frame-resonances perfectly simply because I've yet to actually hear frame-resonance induced problems in its sonic presentation.
  
 My point was that any reasonably well-made headphone frame will easily dissipate any unwanted vibration way below the treshold of negligibility. You don't need a pound of Aluminium to achive the same result (in fact, it might even be counter-productive).


----------



## customcoco

arnaud said:


> As a mechanical engineer, i can very much guarantee you the high strength plastic used in the hd 800 is miles better than aluminum in terms of self damping and weight vs desired stiffness of the frame.
> 
> I think the point about tooling is quite valid. Only a company like sennheiser could come up with the hd800 and the abyss is a total diy affair in comparison to that particular design and some others on the market.


 
 FINALLY !


----------



## plakat

@customcoco The more I think about it, the more I come to the believe the solution is actually kind of home-made / DIY high-end headphone. Nothing bad about that. A next generation might indeed come up with a more elegant solution for holding the drivers in the correct position.
  
 Yes, the talk about damping on their website is void... plastic would offer better damping and less resonances.
  
 The muscle cars are a fine explanation: the Abyss is going very fast right now (i.e. obviously sounds excellent). Now on to the curves  The technical concept has potential and could very well be bought by someone with the money to rework the externals.


----------



## customcoco

plakat said:


> @customcoco The more I think about it, the more I come to the believe the solution is actually kind of home-made / DIY high-end headphone. Nothing bad about that. A next generation might indeed come up with a more elegant solution for holding the drivers in the correct position.
> 
> Yes, the talk about damping on their website is void... plastic would offer better damping and less resonances.
> 
> The muscle cars are a fine explanation: the Abyss is going very fast right now (i.e. obviously sounds excellent). Now on to the curves  The technical concept has potential and could very well be bought by someone with the money to rework the externals.


 

 Absolutely.
  
 The thing is it's now up to their potential customers to decide whether or not they mind paying 5K+ for something that quintessentially a beta product (in the ergonomics, at least).
  
 I know I do, but who I am to decide for someone else ?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Plastics have completely different resonant characteristics and reflective properties than do metals, than do woods. In all cases this translates into an additive 'tone' to the sound eminating from the transducer.

A simple test is to 'ping' a material and listen to how it rings. Plastics sound like, well.. plastic when rapped with your knuckle or tapped with your finger nail. Different plastics have different resonant sounds, as do different metals and woods.

Wood is widely used in loudspeakers for it more organic resonant characteristics that more closely match the sound of many instrument's natural resonance. Metals have an entirely different character which tends to match string instruments. IMO, plastics tend to impose the greatest amount of their own tone when utilized as a baffle and/or cabinet in a loudspeaker or headphone; its signature tends to stand out the most in listening as most instruments and human vocal cords do not have similar tonal characteristics. In all three cases any material can be thickened, braced, and/or damped to modify these resonances, however bracing and damping materials have a sound of their own... 

We happen to have an excellent understanding of the resonant characteristics of aluminum so ultimately decided to use this easy to machine metal, as do many others in audio. The ultimate proof is in the pudding, hit our headphone anywhere with your knuckle, particularly the front baffle or side frames. The only sound you will hear is your bone buffered by skin.

As for cost, I don't understand why this keeps coming up. If anyone thinks it's inexpensive to purchase and maintain CNC machinery, tooling, and employ those who can program and operate such.. get real. The headband.. we could have easily covered it with leather or some other material to hide the mechanics like every other headphone manufacturer does and miss out on all of this attention--No Way Man!



Happy Ugly Sweater Day!


----------



## plakat

@Joe Skubinski , thanks for joining the discussion.
 My comments above were more about the frame construction, not the driver enclosure.
  
 I think costs come up as some kind of compliment: it shows interest in your product (which I'm very much looking forward to get into my hands next week, my local dealer did not manage this week). Of course its not cheap... but desirable, so people wish it would be cheaper. I can imagine its quite hard to engineer something that complex from ground up, costs have to be recouped somehow.
  
 Thanks for the effort, its really a "one of its kind" product. This hobby would less colorful without people thinking out of the box. And actually following up with a product


----------



## Music Alchemist

If you could think of a way to place the ear pads at a certain distance away from everyone's ears without having a horizontal headband adjustment mechanism to compensate for different head sizes, etc., I'd be quite impressed.
  
 But how do you know that all those other headphones aren't the ones imposing their own "frame-resonance induced problems"? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If you've never heard the difference between a headphone that may have resonance problems and one that better deals with the issue, how would you know what to listen for or how to judge a headphone's corresponding effectiveness in its design?
  
 So much goes into headphone design that it's pretty pointless sometimes to compare things unless you're a headphone designer yourself, and even then, you would lack a certain level of understanding that designers of other headphones have.
  

  
 Always glad to see your explanations.
  
 So apparently it's not just a matter of design, but the tone that materials have. (Other engineers, including a former Sennheiser engineer, have mentioned this to me as well.)
  
 Hmm...by the time I can afford my Abyss system, maybe I'll try and get a custom version made like that other guy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It would also be interesting to experiment with different ear pad materials and the custom tuning discs scrapped during the prototype phase.


----------



## customcoco

music alchemist said:


> If you could think of a way to place the ear pads at a certain distance away from everyone's ears without having a horizontal headband adjustment mechanism to compensate for different head sizes, etc., I'd be quite impressed.
> 
> But how do you know that all those other headphones aren't the ones imposing their own "frame-resonance induced problems"?
> 
> ...


 

 Challenge accepted, sir.
  
 Here is my proposal : 
  

  
 That mechanism features a very common slide-in one-piece headband, and a less common "lockable hinge" system. (Note, the cup swivel both ways)
  
 To use it, just press the cups on your ears with the palms of your hands whilst using your fingers to adjust the sliding headband to your liking.
  
 Once done, release the pression from the cups and adjust them just so. Lock the hinges then repeat on the other side.
  
 You're done. It can be done on the fly and without any instrument (a very useful feature for meets).
  
 The problem though, is that it's only a workaround (just like JPS' "solution"). It doesn't solve the problem at its core.
  
 It would mean that _every _single high-end headphones I've heard suffered from this problem ? This very unique issue that only JPS, in its immense clairvoyance, knows the cure of ?
  
 Have you sir ever heard about Occam's Razor ?
  
 I'd rather have @arnaud doing the explaining bit, since he's much more competent that I am. I just have to say that I very much doubt the level of importance that the frame's material has on the actual sound of open cans.
  
 It might be important, I may be wrong, but there are some way more important things to care of. Things such as designing drivers that work well when sealed for, you know, comfort... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The fact that I'm not an engineer does not deprive us from the freedom of actually discussing and questionning desing choices.
  
 I'm not an automotive engineer yet I do discuss to virtues of mid-engined cars VS the fun provided by front engined roadsters. Why wouldn't I ? Because I'm not competent enough ?
  
 Do you have to be a politician to discuss politics ?


----------



## Music Alchemist

From your crude drawing and explanation, I don't quite understand how it's supposed to keep the ear pads the same distance away from different people's ears, ie resting on the sides while only touching your ears lightly instead of being pushed all the way against your head like conventional headphones.
  
Occam's Razor is false.
  
 I meant that so much goes into headphone design that unless you have a very high level of knowledge of what goes into the design of a particular headphone, comparing its design to another headphone and speculating about how it may or may not affect the sound is more akin to discussing why two headphones sound different. There are _many_ variables, so jumping to conclusions is not something I would do. We are free to discuss, but that doesn't mean our speculation is necessarily accurate.


----------



## customcoco

music alchemist said:


> From your crude drawing and explanation, I don't quite understand how it's supposed to keep the ear pads the same distance away from different people's ears, ie resting on the sides while only touching your ears lightly instead of being pushed all the way against your head like conventional headphones.
> 
> Occam's Razor is false.
> 
> I meant that so much goes into headphone design that unless you have a very high level of knowledge of what goes into the design of a particular headphone, comparing its design to another headphone and speculating about how it may or may not affect the sound is more akin to discussing why two headphones sound different. There are _many_ variables, so jumping to conclusions is not something I would do. We are free to discuss, but that doesn't mean our speculation is necessarily accurate.




It's very simple, one would adjust the position of the ear pads so that they barely touch one's ears. Then one would lock th hinges in that position.

The movement of the cups would be bi-axial, as in both moving around a vertical axis to follow the angle of the face and around an horizontal axis. Just like the gullwing doors of a 300sl. 

I understand and agree with your statement about the complexity of modern headphones. Yet, the only points I've raised were not that technical and had more to do with simple ergonomical flaws that I've noticed when I had the Abyss on my head.

Having headphones that can't seal doesn't make any sense to me.

 Then again, to pursue the car analogies, it made no sense to put an engine behind the back wheels. 

Porsche's first 911s had a very annoying tendency of pushing their back-ends wide and throwing themselves through hedges in fast corners. Yet, after decades of constant fiddling, they now make great cars.

I wish the same to the Abyss, but I won't get aboard till the fiddling is done (not that I could afford them, anyway 
 )


----------



## Music Alchemist

It's a cool idea. However, if it's like gull-wing doors, that presents its own issues, such as the ear pads being at an odd angle to your ears, so it wouldn't do the same thing as the Abyss headband does.
  
 Given the user's head isn't too large, they could easily seal in the sense of being pushed against your head. The only thing that doesn't seal completely is the ear pads, which instead provide custom tuning via rotation and magnetic connectors.
  
 It should also be noted that custom headbands are available upon request.
  
 Although it would be interesting (though not as cool, in my opinion) if a future Abyss had high-tech plastic construction, considering everything you mentioned about Sennheiser spending a fortune on R&D, I wouldn't count on it being much cheaper.


----------



## up late

@customcoco - why should open backed headphones seal when it's not going to stop outside noise from getting in? the legendary akg k1000 didn't seal.


----------



## mulder01

If you want to try a custom headband job with the Abyss, you could just get one of these:
  
  

  
 And 4 of these...
  

  
  
 ...in all seriousness though, I do agree there has to be a better way.  I don't claim to have a solution, but I'm sure they'll come up with something


----------



## Joe Skubinski

By all means you can create a seal if you wish to do so, but you can't just throw them on your head and have them fit properly snug. A tight seal requires some set-up time to your head shape. Most headphone users know they must get a good seal to have bass so they intuitively try to create a tight fit; this is not required. *We designed this headphone to float on your head, it does not need to clamp.*

One reason we designed the headband this way (allowing for a variable distance of ear pads to head) is to allow for variable damping of the planar diaphragm. Unlike other headphones, the bass response of the AB-1266 does not roll off dramatically when there is no seal so you can play with the nature of the low bass by changing the distance/damping.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Dang. I just realized how big of a discount the LH Labs Geek Soul Tube + Abyss AB-1266 Lite package deal is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


> Combined MSRP is $9,198, but you only pay $5,298!


 


> 1 out of 2 claimed


 
  Quote:


> We plan on increasing our perk prices to full MSRP on or before January 1.


 
  
 Anyone want to root for me overcoming insurmountable odds and somehow raising the cash in time? (Haha. I've made more in shorter time, but that was years ago.)
  
 I wanted the Ragnarok amp and Yggdrasil DAC by Schiit Audio, but...
  
 If I were to choose based on aesthetics alone, I'd go for the futuristic Geek Soul Xfi and call it a day:
  




  
 To me, it looks _way_ cooler than the vast majority of audio gear. I can't deny I find that inspiring. Circumventing the necessity of connecting (and potentially stacking) a separate amp and DAC is a nice bonus.
  
 I'm not too crazy about the looks of the Geek Soul Tube:
  




  
 Upon further research, I learned that it does not include tubes and, unbelievably, the headphone output is solid-state, meaning all that fancy tube stuff is useless unless you connect speakers or another amp to it.
  
 In other words, it probably shouldn't sound any different with headphones than the Xfi. Now I know I can scratch that off my list and that the discount package deal doesn't apply to me so much. My feelings aren't too hurt, since its looks sort of turn me off.
  
 My next alternative is to get the AB-1266 Lite with the Geek Soul Xfi...but there are...complications.
  
 After navigating the convoluted maze of a gajillion options that is LH Labs' Indiegogo page, I ran some more numbers to get a better idea of things. Here are the corresponding calculations I made.
  
 Geek Soul Tube (2014): $1,969
 Geek Soul Tube (2015): $4,699
 Geek Soul Xfi (2014): $1,699
 Geek Soul Xfi (2015): $3,999
 Ragnarok: $1,699
 Yggdrasil: $2,299
 AB-1266 Lite + Geek Soul Tube (2014; with package deal): $5,298
 AB-1266 Lite + Geek Soul Tube (2014; without package deal): $6,464
 AB-1266 Lite + Geek Soul Tube (2015): $9,194
 AB-1266 Lite + Geek Soul Xfi (2014): $6,194
 AB-1266 Lite + Geek Soul Xfi (2015): $8,494
 AB-1266 Lite + Ragnarok + Yggdrasil: $8,493
  
 Haha! Ironically, if I wait until next year to pull the trigger, there is only a one dollar difference between the two options I am currently considering...but I would save $2,300 on the Xfi if I pounce before they close the perk price window.
  
 There is also the prospect of going for the Tube package deal anyway. That way, I could get the normally most expensive combo at a lower price than everything else and save $3,195 over the Schiit combo...but it's honestly not the one I want, even factoring in how the price of the AB-1266 Lite in the context of the package deal is $3,329. ($1,166 off.)
  
 I have a considerable amount of debt to pay off as it is, making this whole endeavor rather unlikely...but if I find a way to make it work at such short notice, I stand to save a good deal by acting now instead of later. On the other hand, once I'm in a position to afford such things, saving a few thousand bucks wouldn't be as big of a deal.
  
 Even if I were to proceed, I'm a little worried about delivery time. LH Labs are known to experience delays, which could mean waiting longer than expected.
  
 Gah. This is frustrating, yet so exciting! Anyway, the real question is this:
  
*Does anyone happen to know how the LH Labs Geek Soul Xfi amp/DAC compares to the Schiit Audio Ragnarok amp + Yggdrasil DAC? (Especially in terms of how they sound with the Abyss.)*


----------



## customcoco

The Xfi is absolutely gorgeous...


----------



## customcoco

music alchemist said:


> It's a cool idea. However, if it's like gull-wing doors, that presents its own issues, such as the ear pads being at an odd angle to your ears, so it wouldn't do the same thing as the Abyss headband does.
> 
> Given the user's head isn't too large, they could easily seal in the sense of being pushed against your head. The only thing that doesn't seal completely is the ear pads, which instead provide custom tuning via rotation and magnetic connectors.
> 
> ...


 

 No it wouldn't ; because the pads would also rotate to follow the _vertical_ angle of the face.
  
 Hmm, are there any pics of the custom headbands you're talking about ? I'd be curious to see what they can come up with.


----------



## Music Alchemist

customcoco said:


> The Xfi is absolutely gorgeous...


 
  
 Gawd, yes!
  


customcoco said:


> No it wouldn't ; because the pads would also rotate to follow the _vertical_ angle of the face.
> 
> Hmm, are there any pics of the custom headbands you're talking about ? I'd be curious to see what they can come up with.


 
  
 That's a pretty good design, then! I just wish you had made a more descriptive drawing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 A few people just got different sizes due to their heads not being within the range of the stock headband. (No custom shapes, as far as I know.)


----------



## customcoco

music alchemist said:


> Gawd, yes!
> 
> 
> That's a pretty good design, then! I just wish you had made a more descriptive drawing.
> ...




Get it, then. After all, you'd have to compensate for the Abyss' sheer level of ugliness...

I'm out, I'm out ! Don't throw the rocks just yet ! 

Yup, my drawing skills are abysmal.

Rimshot, joke of the year.

In my mind though, it looks really good actually. I might even have to get a patent for it, just so, you know, nobody steals my idea.

Not sure they could really do anything with that drawing though


----------



## mulder01

That amp does look pretty nice, but it's identically priced to the Ragnarok at the moment so you're gambling on the Xfi DAC \ amp combo being a better amp than the Rag, which seems unlikely given the high praise of the Rag so far.  Looks a lot nicer than the Schiit stack, but I can't imagine it would out perform it.  Only one way to find out though!  There's nothing to stop you buying the Xfi now for a relatively affordable price and getting the Abyss later on next year when you're more cashed up.  Having it sit on your desk with nothing plugged into it will be a pretty big motivator to hurry up and buy the 1266...


----------



## Music Alchemist

customcoco said:


> Get it, then. After all, you'd have to compensate for the Abyss' sheer level of ugliness...
> 
> In my mind though, it looks really good actually. I might even have to get a patent for it, just so, you know, nobody steals my idea.
> 
> Not sure they could really do anything with that drawing though


 
  
 I guess I'm one of the few people who likes the aesthetics of the Abyss. Plus, the novelty of listening to black metal with headphones made of black metal holds a certain allure for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Since you posted it on a public forum and it's not awfully specific, anyone could implement the idea and deny stealing it.
  


mulder01 said:


> That amp does look pretty nice, but it's identically priced to the Ragnarok at the moment so you're gambling on the Xfi DAC \ amp combo being a better amp than the Rag, which seems unlikely given the high praise of the Rag so far.  Looks a lot nicer than the Schiit stack, but I can't imagine it would out perform it.  Only one way to find out though!  There's nothing to stop you buying the Xfi now for a relatively affordable price and getting the Abyss later on next year when you're more cashed up.  Having it sit on your desk with nothing plugged into it will be a pretty big motivator to hurry up and buy the 1266...


 
  
 There's just one little thing standing in my way: $1,699 I don't have at the moment. XD
  
 But like I said, once I can afford a complete Abyss system, even buying both combos shouldn't be much of a problem.


----------



## Nomax

Dear friends,

some may already know me, others don't. This is not may main playing field due to my lack of knowledge of the language. Sorry for that.

As I may call quite a lot of headphones my own, am still enthusiastic about this hobby even after 20 years and have contact with some makers and developers, I've seen and heard quite a bit over the years that excited or disappointed me.

I've never been a fan of planar magnetic headphones. I knew the Audeze LCD3, but have to say that for USD ~2000 the comfort, fit and finish was rather disappointing (earpads mounted with double-sided tape in that price range -- NO Chance!)

On to the Abyss!
Crazy Americans... another planar magnetic headphone, was my first thought when I saw the early photos on the net. Which idiot is going to buy that? Me? USD 5500,- for a planar magnetic headphone???

One day my local dealer came into play and said, he had never seen something that ugly, but at the same time extraordinary and unique, as this headphone.

Which was the main reason for me to invest $5500: in the premium segment I value uniqueness above other things.


Regarding comfort
I came to a perfect solution by watching Joe's video and bending the headband in/out. 660 gramm can be astoundingly comfortable, even for a longer time.

Personally I'd whished for a second set of earpads in velour, or memory foam for the leather pads.


Regarding sound
To me personally the Abyss is less of a headphone but more of a speaker. I'm still having a hard time putting into words what the AB1266 offers in musical performance.

Tyll of Innerfidelity said, its funny to listen to the Abyss.

Yes, its really fun, my friends, it puts a smile on my face again and again -- and thats what its all about for me: that an extraordinary product gives me joy for a long time, by its workmanship and its sound.

Now on to the MOON NEO 430 HA!

Its a beauty!

A perfect all-in-one solution, perfect sounding DAC, crossfeed, remote control, digital volume control (WOW! a real hammer!), enough power for my ABYSS and all my other headphones!

The only negative point is the rather cheap plastic remote, besides that everything is top!

For everyone looking for a lower priced solution and is willing to abandon some of the features of the MOON NEO, I can recommend the Violectric V281, which does very well with the ABYSS.

I think I've arrived at my final destination and found my DREAM TEAM:
MOON NEO/ABYSS-BEAUTY&BEAST=STATE OF THE ART


MY OWN WORDS-BOTH ARE STATE OF THE ART

http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/the-moon-neo-430ha-headphone-amplifier-creates-a-happy-zone-around-your-ears/

REGARDS NOMAX


----------



## Nomax

http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/the-moon-neo-430ha-headphone-amplifier-creates-a-happy-zone-around-your-ears/

NOMAX


----------



## mulder01

Thanks for your impressions Nomax, turns out you're not so crazy after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Music Alchemist, I had a closer look at that Geek stuff.  There is a LOT of marketing going on on that page. The thing that annoys me the most, is they say that normally gear from most manufacturers goes down in price over time - and so it should - the first batch of anything would be more expensive to produce than later on when you have streamlined the process and can make something in quantity, but they put the prices of their stuff UP, CONSIDERABLY - they used the DaVinci DAC as an example, saying that when they released it, they sold them for $9k.  That was the first lot, and they still made money.  So now that they have been making them for a while, you could assume they could make them for even less again, and make even more money selling them for $9k, but they've put the price up to $31k.  How can they possibly justify that?  Pisses me off the markup on some of this stuff.


----------



## wink

The same piece of audio tomfoolery sounds 3 times better when it costs $15,000 as it does when it only costs $5,000.
  
 That's why the more happy our ears are, the more empty our wallets are.


----------



## Music Alchemist

The Geek Soul is basically a Geek Pulse and Geek LPS in a fancy box. I also heard it won't even be delivered to customers until six months from now or something crazy like that, so I'll just go with my original plan of the Schiit stack.


----------



## FiftyKilo

Hi,
 some month ago, I did search for a small headphone with amp solution for my bedroom, this was the reason why I did come to this forum. The search is now finish, next week my Abyss will arrive and today I did ordered a Cavalli LAu for proper amplification.
  
 Toegether with my Dynastation III Tube CD Player I now will have the pleasure to have music just right in my bed and when I tired, I can switch off an fall asleep.
  
 My main Music Listening Room is far away in a seperate part of my house and I don't like to switch on all hifi equipment every night. My Phono system needs a large Air Compressor which stands in the cellar and also the four way active Hornsystem needs some time to come to high performance. 
  
 So I think the the solution with the Abyss will give my hearing pleasure. I mostly hear big concert music and Theatre Pipe Organ and Church Organ Music, so looking forward in which way the Abyss will show me the deep tones.
  
 One question, when I will hear the music with the Abyss, how loud will be the music outside the headphone ?. I did know that the Abyss is not fully closed. 
  
 Paul is laying direct near by in the other half of the bed and I hope I will not disturb him. Paul has large ears, because he is French Bulldog.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 regards
 Ralf


----------



## zardon

Been using the abyss now for some time and tried around 15 amplifiers. While its common knowledge, the carvalli liquid gold is a remarkable pairing for this headphone. The abyss sound very good or even great with some other amplifiers but with the liquid gold they are pure magic. Synergy, dynamics and speed are as good as i have ever heard from a headphone. I frequently forget i have Headphones on my head. From metal to orchestral they handle it all.

I prefer the pairing to my stax 009 and blue hawaii and in some instances even my he90 setup. I still refer to the sony r10 at times.

Abyss are worth every penny but you really do need the liquid gold to get the magical sound. 24 bit flac files help create real to life quality....


----------



## Music Alchemist

zardon said:


> Been using the abyss now for some time and tried around 15 amplifiers. While its common knowledge, the carvalli liquid gold is a remarkable pairing for this headphone. The abyss sound very good or even great with some other amplifiers but with the liquid gold they are pure magic. Synergy, dynamics and speed are as good as i have ever heard from a headphone. I frequently forget i have Headphones on my head. From metal to orchestral they handle it all.
> 
> I prefer the pairing to my stax 009 and blue hawaii and in some instances even my he90 setup. I still refer to the sony r10 at times.
> 
> Abyss are worth every penny but you really do need the liquid gold to get the magical sound. 24 bit flac files help create real to life quality....


 
  
 I would be _very_ interested in seeing a more in-depth comparison between the AB-1266, SR-009, HE 90, and R10.
  
 I'm getting the Ragnarok because reliable sources told me it's even better than all the other more expensive amps.
  
 Also, it's not the resolution of the files that make them sound good, but the master. (Read this article for the science behind why it's physically impossible to hear a difference between 16-bit and 24-bit unless there is a problem in your system.)


----------



## zardon

music alchemist said:


> Also, it's not the resolution of the files that make them sound good, but the master. (Read this article for the science behind why it's physically impossible to hear a difference between 16-bit and 24-bit unless there is a problem in your system.)




Read that a while ago, doesnt really translate into 'real life' experiences (well for me anyway) its a little like some reports on the abyss having a 'less than stellar' measurement across the range, in real life means next to nothing. The 16 and 24 bit article is another one of those debates, like the choice of cables, or vinyl etc.

At the end of the day ive heard difference between 16 bit and 24 bit masters of specific albums, but i do agree some of the 24 bit tracks are taken from inadequate masters.

Not here really for a debate on that however, its all very dull to me, i tend to listen to what works for me, always have. The views of people on the net often mean very little if anything which is why im not really active here anymore.

I do hope more people can try the abyss however. Ive been amused about how 'ugly' people say they are. I guess if i was dating them i might feel its a topic worth discussing!


----------



## Music Alchemist

zardon said:


> Read that a while ago, doesnt really translate into 'real life' experiences (well for me anyway) its a little like some reports on the abyss having a 'less than stellar' measurement across the range, in real life means next to nothing. The 16 and 24 bit article is another one of those debates, like the choice of cables, or vinyl etc.
> 
> At the end of the day ive heard difference between 16 bit and 24 bit masters of specific albums, but i do agree some of the 24 bit tracks are taken from inadequate masters.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The masters usually do sound different, but if you properly convert the 24-bit files to lossless 16-bit and there is no problem in your system, there is no audible difference when listening to 24-bit and 16-bit files derived from the same master.
  
 Anyway, I would LOVE it if you shared more detailed thoughts about how those four headphones differ. (I want them all, but was planning on getting the Abyss first.)
  
 I am also curious about which amps you used with the Abyss.


----------



## Articnoise

music alchemist said:


> I would be _very_ interested in seeing a more in-depth comparison between the AB-1266, SR-009, HE 90, and R10.
> 
> I'm getting the Ragnarok because reliable sources told me it's even better than all the other more expensive amps.
> 
> *Also, it's not the resolution of the files that make them sound good, but the master. (Read this article for the science behind why it's physically impossible to hear a difference between 16-bit and 24-bit unless there is a problem in your system.)*


 
  

 So it’s like a super big conspiracy that the evil hifi industry have created to dupe us easily fooled to buy their stuff and thankfully that have now been proven by experts/science on the Internet as false along with audio grad USB cables and  power cords.


----------



## Music Alchemist

articnoise said:


> So it’s like a super big conspiracy that the evil hifi industry have created to dupe us easily fooled to buy their stuff and thankfully that have now been proven by experts/science on the Internet as false along with audio grad USB cables and  power cords.


 
  
 I didn't mean to derail the thread with my comment; it's just a common misconception that I felt needed to be addressed.
  
 Many high-res downloads do sound better than their CD counterparts and thus may be worth the higher price, but only because they were derived from a different master. I think the main reason digital audio is needlessly distributed in higher resolution than the Red Book standard (16-bit / 44.1 kHz, which is more than capable of handling everything within the human range of hearing) is that many people lack a basic understanding of how audio works. They see a bigger number and mistakenly assume it has relevance. When people hear a high-res download and notice it sounds better, it's only natural to jump to conclusions without contemplating further. It's not so much a conspiracy as it is giving the market what it wants.
  
 24-bit or higher is used in studio settings in order to have more processing power while working with audio. It does have benefits in terms of recording, mastering, and so on. However, just because it's used with computers doesn't mean it has any relevance to audio playback. This quote pretty much sums it up:
  


bigshot said:


> Since 16/44.1 already has a noise floor so low you would have to turn the volume up to hearing damage levels to hear it all, and since it has a frequency response that covers the full spectrum of human hearing, what can you possibly expect to hear?


 
  
 It would be best to discuss this matter in the relevant threads, though...


----------



## plakat

At last... my Abyss is here. Still working on bending the headband into shape, but first impression is very positive. Its sound is always effortless and detailed, even when deep reaching bass kicks in (which is presented really impressive, without bloat). What sticked out most was their pinpoint positioning. Pairing with the V281 is very nice, though I still don't know why this amp has +6dB and +12dB gain settings: Using XLR in the volume is still well below 12'.
  
 When taking them off the head the drivers distort badly, obviously the damping (i.e. the inner part more or less closed by the seal against the head) is a major part of how the driver works. I have to get into the habit of switching off the music before taking it off my head I guess. Sounds like it might do nothing good to the driver in the long run...
  
 Remembering the recent discussion about the selection of material I have to say, the metal simply looks and feels good and is a perfect match for the overall design. No, plastic would simply not be right.


----------



## mulder01

fiftykilo said:


> Hi,
> some month ago, I did search for a small headphone with amp solution for my bedroom, this was the reason why I did come to this forum. The search is now finish, next week my Abyss will arrive and today I did ordered a Cavalli LAu for proper amplification.
> 
> Toegether with my Dynastation III Tube CD Player I now will have the pleasure to have music just right in my bed and when I tired, I can switch off an fall asleep.
> ...


 
  
 Wow that is some serious 'small bedroom headphone setup' you have there.  They leak quite a lot of sound like any open headphone.  I wouldn't have thought you could comfortably lay down on a pillow with them either... I'm sure Paul will forgive you though.
  


zardon said:


> Been using the abyss now for some time and tried around 15 amplifiers. While its common knowledge, the carvalli liquid gold is a remarkable pairing for this headphone. The abyss sound very good or even great with some other amplifiers but with the liquid gold they are pure magic. Synergy, dynamics and speed are as good as i have ever heard from a headphone. I frequently forget i have Headphones on my head. From metal to orchestral they handle it all.
> 
> I prefer the pairing to my stax 009 and blue hawaii and in some instances even my he90 setup. I still refer to the sony r10 at times.
> 
> Abyss are worth every penny but you really do need the liquid gold to get the magical sound. 24 bit flac files help create real to life quality....


 
  
 Would you say the Liquid Gold is the best amp you've heard with the Abyss out of all 15?  I only got to spend a short time with it in a meet environment and it didn't blow me away for the price at the time, but maybe the differences would be more evident over time and in a better environment...
  
  Quote:

  
 Hmm I dunno about the bitrate argument.  You have to keep in mind that 44kHz in computer terms is not 44kHz audio frequency - 1 "Hz" or 1 cycle on an analogue waveform is one complete wave from it's starting point through it's positive part, through it's negative part and back to the beginning, and in computer talk, one Hz is one on/off cycle or a 1 or a 0, which gives a stepped representation of the analogue shape.  The more steps you can represent that wave shape in, the more realistic it will be.  Just like a better picture will look better with more pixels representing it.  Maybe it's like the difference between printing a 5 megapixel photo on a 6X4 print or a 15 megapixel photo on a 6x4 print.  It can be slightly better, provided that the extra data is there, not just been upscaled or upsampled to a larger file size without it actually containing any extra detail.


----------



## mulder01

Maybe read this again plakat
  
 Quote:


joe skubinski said:


> By all means you can create a seal if you wish to do so, but you can't just throw them on your head and have them fit properly snug. A tight seal requires some set-up time to your head shape. Most headphone users know they must get a good seal to have bass so they intuitively try to create a tight fit; this is not required. *We designed this headphone to float on your head, it does not need to clamp.*
> 
> One reason we designed the headband this way (allowing for a variable distance of ear pads to head) is to allow for variable damping of the planar diaphragm. Unlike other headphones, the bass response of the AB-1266 does not roll off dramatically when there is no seal so you can play with the nature of the low bass by changing the distance/damping.


 
  
  


plakat said:


> When taking them off the head the drivers distort badly, obviously the damping (i.e. the inner part more or less closed by the seal against the head) is a major part of how the driver works. I have to get into the habit of switching off the music before taking it off my head I guess. Sounds like it might do nothing good to the driver in the long run...


 
  
 'Cause that doesn't sound right - the driver should work without any seal at all, and is kinda designed to not seal against your head.  Any difference in seal makes subtle differences only with mine.  I always take them off my head and put them back on the stand before I switch the music off and have never heard any distortion...


----------



## zardon

mulder01 said:


> Would you say the Liquid Gold is the best amp you've heard with the Abyss out of all 15?  I only got to spend a short time with it in a meet environment and it didn't blow me away for the price at the time, but maybe the differences would be more evident over time and in a better environment...


 
 Yes, tried quite a few amplifiers with them this year. The Liquid Gold is sublime and a very seductive pairing with the headphones. Its not something you will pick up on at a meet. You need to spend some time listening to tracks you know. The Liquid gold seems to tame a slightly rough edge in the high frequencies too. So initially you may be drawn to another amplifier, but over time the balance from this amplifier is just as close to perfect as I have heard. You do need to spend some time setting them up on your ears, with a light seal - not pressed in hard against the ears and head.
  
 I really can't praise the Abyss headphones enough, with the right amplifier they are up there with the STAX 009 and subsequently anything else released in recent years. I own, or have owned almost every headphone ever made, and while its just a personal opinion I feel these headphones will go down in time as one of the best headphones ever made - up there with the Stax 009 and Sony R10. The bass impact is purely visceral and unmatched by any other headphone pairing I have - so for well recorded rock music they are my immediate 'go to' headphone. They are almost like strapping two speakers to your ears, its that kind of physical presence which is almost unique in the headphone world.


----------



## plakat

mulder01 said:


> 'Cause that doesn't sound right - the driver should work without any seal at all, and is kinda designed to not seal against your head.  Any difference in seal makes subtle differences only with mine.  I always take them off my head and put them back on the stand before I switch the music off and have never heard any distortion...


 

 I know that statement. And regarding the distortion mentioned: it goes away as soon as there is any kind of damping either on the front or the back of the driver, no need for a closed-back kind of seal (my wording may have been imperfect in that regard).


----------



## mulder01

plakat said:


> I know that statement. And regarding the distortion mentioned: it goes away as soon as there is any kind of damping either on the front or the back of the driver, no need for a closed-back kind of seal (my wording may have been imperfect in that regard).


 
  
 But were you saying that you thought it might cause damage to the driver over time if you play music without them on your head?  Or have I misunderstood


----------



## plakat

mulder01 said:


> But were you saying that you thought it might cause damage to the driver over time if you play music without them on your head?  Or have I misunderstood


 

 No, thats correct: it sounds rather bad and I'm thinking wether the driver might get damaged. It only occurs when I completely take it off my head though: e.g. covering a part of the cups with my hands stops it.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Low frequency damping (or 'control' as an easier to understand term) is set averaged between a complete seal and loosely coupled to your head. By varying the distance from the side of your head, you can slightly vary low frequency damping to suit your tastes in bass. This is by design, what we consider the 'tuned range' of the headphone.

If you are playing music with heavy bass content at moderately loud levels and the headphones are off your head (such as laying down on the table), so there is no surface near the front baffle (or outside it's tuning range), low frequencies will have greater distortion. As soon as any surface nears the baffle, bass control is restored. No damage to the driver will occur regardless. The only way to damage the transducer is with excessive power or physically by something such as a screwdriver going through it.


----------



## FiftyKilo

Thank you Joe for the explanations, I was a little bit confused that I can damage the headphone (when he will arrive next week) with wrong handling.
 Regards
 Ralf


----------



## Music Alchemist

@zardon
  
 Would you be willing to tell us more how the Abyss, SR-009, HE 90, and R10 sound in comparison to each other? Most people don't have the luxury of being able to hear all of them.
  

  
 Awesome. But don't worry about the driver. (See below.)
  


mulder01 said:


> You have to keep in mind that 44kHz in computer terms is not 44kHz audio frequency


 
  
 Umm, _yes it is_, in digital audio terms. Just read this, this, and this article to clear up any confusion.
  
 To be even more clear, here is the data for a standard lossless Red Book audio file.
 sample rate: 44.1 kHz
 sample size (aka bit depth): 16 bit
 bit rate: 1,411 kbps
  
DSD does have playback merits, but is more complex and essentially a different master anyway.
  

  
 Yeah, I was pretty sure those drivers wouldn't get damaged just from playing music. XD


----------



## mulder01

music alchemist said:


> Umm, _yes it is_, in digital audio terms. Just read this, this, and this article to clear up any confusion.


 
  
 They don't really necessarily directly address the differences between the two.  The digital samples of the wave are taken at 44100 times a second.  This is off the link you sent me:
  

  
 So that's one wave, sampled at 13 points, then it is the DAC's job to make it look like the green line.  The more blue dots you have, the truer it will be to the original shape.
  
 And this is another one:
  

  
 Which is 1 audio cycle/Hz represented by many digital cycles Hz
  
 If anyone can explain to me why I'm wrong without just linking a page with general information then I am happy to try and understand.  If what the first article is saying is true, and the signal will end up perfect out the other end of the DAC regardless, but you know that's not true and that there are big differences between DACs...


----------



## Music Alchemist

This isn't even debatable. Just read the articles or the endless discussion in the Sound Science section.


----------



## plakat

joe skubinski said:


> If you are playing music with heavy bass content at moderately loud levels and the headphones are off your head (such as laying down on the table), so there is no surface near the front baffle (or outside it's tuning range), low frequencies will have greater distortion. As soon as any surface nears the baffle, bass control is restored. No damage to the driver will occur regardless. The only way to damage the trasducer is with excessive power or physically by something such as a screwdriver going through it.


 
  
 Thanks for the clarification. Yes, I saw that effect: covering the driver even partially stops the distortion. And yes, I listened to electronic music, not devoid of bass.
  
 I'm still amazed by its ability to project a wide and stable soundstage, keeping all the fine details even when confronted with heavy bass.
  
 Ad DACs: many of the differences are actually in their analog output stages I guess... So even if the same DAC chip is used two products may sound different.


----------



## djd1122

zardon said:


> Been using the abyss now for some time and tried around 15 amplifiers. While its common knowledge, the carvalli liquid gold is a remarkable pairing for this headphone. The abyss sound very good or even great with some other amplifiers but with the liquid gold they are pure magic. Synergy, dynamics and speed are as good as i have ever heard from a headphone. I frequently forget i have Headphones on my head. From metal to orchestral they handle it all.
> 
> I prefer the pairing to my stax 009 and blue hawaii and in some instances even my he90 setup. I still refer to the sony r10 at times.
> 
> Abyss are worth every penny but you really do need the liquid gold to get the magical sound. 24 bit flac files help create real to life quality....


 
  
 What name brand and model DAC, interconnects, and power cords do you have on your DAC and Liquid Gold?


----------



## bmichels

zardon said:


> Been using the abyss now for some time and tried around 15 amplifiers. While its common knowledge, the carvalli liquid gold is a remarkable pairing for this headphone. The abyss sound very good or even great with some other amplifiers but with the liquid gold they are pure magic. Synergy, dynamics and speed are as good as i have ever heard from a headphone. I frequently forget i have Headphones on my head. From metal to orchestral they handle it all.
> 
> I prefer the pairing to my stax 009 and blue hawaii and in some instances even my he90 setup. I still refer to the sony r10 at times.
> 
> Abyss are worth every penny but you really do need the liquid gold to get the magical sound. 24 bit flac files help create real to life quality....


 
  
 have you tried the ABYSS with some TUBE Amps ? (I have an Eddie Current 445)
  
 which other amps are "as good as the liquid gold" with ABYSS ?


----------



## plakat

After spending several hours scanning my music library yesterday evening (till late into the night) I have to say the Abyss does fine with everything I found.
  
 Obviously there were many pure electronic or mainly electronic titles, ranging from Massive Attack and the like, over Deep House, 90s House and into Drum&Bass, but also Funk like Hot Pants Road Club (Austrian act, very energetic nevertheless), Pop (Paul Simon, Graceland -- still very nice, Madonna), Rock (if Queen, Simple Minds and U2 count  and Classics like Dvoraks Symphony #9.
  
 Over the course of this evening again I was impressed by the dynamic and detailed presentation. Oh, and did I mention there is bass? It does not obscure anything, but shows good attack, depth and definition. I still have to try bending the headband a bit more, I might have been too cautious so far.
  
 The Phonitor 2 is not bad at driving the Abyss btw. Even on default gain setting (using the XLR inputs) is reaches levels I'd rather not use for sustained listening. Still I prefer the V281, which seems to deliver more juice down low and has a bit smoother treble. So the next step will be to remove the default attenuation (-10dB) in the DAC2 and see if that can serve as a transportable setup...
  
 After some hours I do get a bit of a sore spot on the top of my head. Still comfort is far better than expected, given the weight.
  
 Edit: Another interesting effect: it does indeed give peace of mind. Scanning head-fi has become more quiet starting yesterday, moving from "maybe I should look into this" to just "ah, nice..."
  
 I don't know wether I'll pursue the MOON route as I'm quite satisfied with the DAC2+V281 combination. And after finding out that the the CEntrance M8 has its low output impedance setting is on the right most position when viewed from behind (not left most as I thought) it delivers more than enough output for taking the Abyss with me on holidays.


----------



## zardon

plakat said:


> I don't know wether I'll pursue the MOON route as I'm quite satisfied with the DAC2+V281 combination. And after finding out that the the CEntrance M8 has its low output impedance setting is on the right most position when viewed from behind (not left most as I thought) it delivers more than enough output for taking the Abyss with me on holidays.




If you have the funds and want a good upgrade when on the move consider the chord hugo. its expensive, and a little large but its the best portable pairing ive found for the abyss. I use it with an astell and kern ak240 and its a heck of a good portable setup, all fits in a small case and perfect for hotels.


----------



## Music Alchemist

zardon said:


> If you have the funds and want a good upgrade when on the move consider the chord hugo. its expensive, and a little large but its the best portable pairing ive found for the abyss. I use it with an astell and kern ak240 and its a heck of a good portable setup, all fits in a small case and perfect for hotels.


 
  
 If you bring the Abyss with you to hotels, I think it's safe to say that you've got most or all of us beat. You have won the Head-Fi game. *bows in adulation*


----------



## bmichels

HUGO is powerful enough to get all the full potential from the ABYSS !??


----------



## plakat

zardon said:


> If you have the funds and want a good upgrade when on the move consider the chord hugo. its expensive, and a little large but its the best portable pairing ive found for the abyss. I use it with an astell and kern ak240 and its a heck of a good portable setup, all fits in a small case and perfect for hotels.


 

 I would consider the Hugo, but unfortunately I'm bit of a design nut... and the Hugo disqualifies unfortunately in more than one regard. I just don't get the light color thing (i.e. I don't *want* something like that near me), I don't like the volume pot (for lack of a better word), I don't like the cheap look of the exterior (I know its robust and everything, it just doesn't look good to me and the jacks are almost unusable with better connectors because they are recessed).
  
 I do like its FPGA implementation of a DAC and would be interested in that. But not in this package... Sorry for the rant -- its a sign of frustration with the aspects mentioned


----------



## zardon

plakat said:


> I would consider the Hugo, but unfortunately I'm bit of a design nut... and the Hugo disqualifies unfortunately in more than one regard. I just don't get the light color thing (i.e. I don't *want* something like that near me), I don't like the volume pot (for lack of a better word), I don't like the cheap look of the exterior (I know its robust and everything, it just doesn't look good to me and the jacks are almost unusable with better connectors because they are recessed).
> 
> I do like its FPGA implementation of a DAC and would be interested in that. But not in this package... Sorry for the rant -- its a sign of frustration with the aspects mentioned




interesting. Cant say i find any of this hardware wonderful to look at (the m8 is one ugly looking thing, and much prefer the new black hugo although the m8 pairs well with the lcd). I tend to put on headphones when i am alone, close my eyes and just get lost in the music. Best way to relax after running a business .... Never sit watching any of it. Which is why i always find comments on the abyss being 'ugly' so amusing. Must be a lot of people sitting in chairs with a mirror in front of them. I fail to be able to focus on anything with the abyss in full flow, its all about the music..


----------



## plakat

zardon said:


> interesting. Cant say i find any of this hardware wonderful to look at (the m8 is one ugly looking thing, and much prefer the new black hugo although the m8 pairs well with the lcd). I tend to put on headphones when i am alone, close my eyes and just get lost in the music. Best way to relax after running a business .... Never sit watching any of it. Which is why i always find comments on the abyss being 'ugly' so amusing. Must be a lot of people sitting in chairs with a mirror in front of them. I fail to be able to focus on anything with the abyss in full flow, its all about the music..


 

 While I fully understand your point of view, to me those things have to fulfill a basic requirement besides good sound quality: I have to like them. Something that makes me guess why its glowing dark blue instead of light green a moment ago would likely fail this test 
  
 While some other persons first reaction also contained the word 'ugly' I don't perceive the Abyss as such (and thats not only because I paid for it). Its look is distinctive, no question about that. Its unconventional construction lets me wear a rather heavy headphone with high comfort, something neither Audeze nor Hifiman did for me (besides that I did not like their respective sound signatures, but thats not my point here).
  
 Overall the Abyss has character... something I tend to honor. Thats both its design and its sound btw. Its shape is easy to spot in ads/photos etc., that alone may be an advantage. Its an interesting aspect that this massive looking thing can produce sounds so delicate... and here our views meet again: yesterday I listened about 3h longer than anticipated. Because it was fun and engaging.
  
 One last comment regarding 'ugly': its definitely not ugly in the sense of tasteless. Its design has taste. But it will not match everybodies expectations. Thats what I meant above with it having character in its design.


----------



## zardon

I agree its actually one of the most comfortable headphones i have worn. Heavy but it completely vanishes on the head. Wore them many times for 6 hours straight without an issue. The sennheiser hd800 are very comfortable too but they get a lot hotter around the pads after a few hours.

Biggest downside is i dont let anyone wear my abyss as i spent ages forming them into the perfect shape for my head. The initial setup is important, more than any other headphone i have owned. Without the right placement the overall sound signature will 'shift' a little. I still think this is why tyll's report is slightly off.

Also the multiple cables with the headphone are remarkable, and easily worth £1000. I spent £300 on replacements for my hd800 as the stock cables are just beyond dire. People complaining about the cost need to factor this in.

I havent listened to my he90 or sony r10 in weeks now. Has never happened before. In the land of loudspeakers these are a bargain, ive spent more than i would care to admit on speakers over the years. Guess i should stop posting as i sound like a sales rep for the company.


----------



## Music Alchemist

zardon said:


> I havent listened to my he90 or sony r10 in weeks now. Has never happened before. In the land of loudspeakers these are a bargain, ive spent more than i would care to admit on speakers over the years. Guess i should stop posting as i sound like a sales rep for the company.


 
  
 I enjoy your enthusiasm and appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. But I think what many here (myself included) would love to see is a comparison between the Abyss and the other TOTL headphones you own.


----------



## isquirrel

Right, I am getting lots of "encouragement" to get the Abyss, I have not heard them for long enough or in my system to really form an impression.
  
 When I auditioned them at a dealer, I found that I had a preference for my LCD-3F's in the mid range, having said that I have a friend bringing his over in two weeks so will be able to get them know them better.
  
 Question is has anyone else either got the LCD-3F's & the Abyss and is able to give some feedback particularly re the mid range?
  
 Also I found it strange to have the ear pads away form my head. I guess this feeling goes away with familiarity.


----------



## mulder01

plakat said:


> And after finding out that the the CEntrance M8 has its low output impedance setting is on the right most position when viewed from behind (not left most as I thought) it delivers more than enough output for taking the Abyss with me on holidays.


 
  
 I know it's hard to quantify, but how much difference is there between the v281 and your portable rig?  I don't think volume would be a problem for me given that I don't listen at very loud levels, but what about quality wise?
  


isquirrel said:


> Also I found it strange to have the ear pads away form my head. I guess this feeling goes away with familiarity.


 
  
 When you demo them, you're a bit limited to how much you can adjust them because the dealer won't want every person who tries them to go bending the headband, but once you get your own, you can get a much more personalised adjustment.  On mine I've gotten the earpads to lightly touch pretty much all the way around.  If you shake your head side to side they still slide around a bit, but you actually can get a pretty decent fit with a little bit of effort to set up


----------



## plakat

mulder01 said:


> I know it's hard to quantify, but how much difference is there between the v281 and your portable rig?  I don't think volume would be a problem for me given that I don't listen at very loud levels, but what about quality wise?


 
  
 Yes, such comparisons are quite hard... especially since switching takes a bit too long (i.e. change sound output on my mac and move the cable).
 Comparing the V281 to the CEntrance M8 I think the V281 shows that it simply has more power down low, bass seems to not be limited. That might indeed be a case of just enough headroom vs. headroom in spades. The M8 does not distort or anything and it may well be a tonal difference in the DAC section as well...
  
 What seems more consistent to hear is that the imaging is more stable and more "out of head" with the V281 (listening to Cowboy Junkies "Misguided Angel", very nice and atmospheric recording but something I'd normally not listen to when using headphones). Both show the low frequency distortions this recording obviously has, both let one hear the old church where this was recorded. But instruments seem more to be attached to the drivers when using the M8 while they assume a position in the room with the V281.
  
 Long story short: I think the CEntrance does drive the Abyss quite well and does not mess up. When a home amp/DAC is far away the differences will fade away I guess, leaving just the music. I don't listen a high volume either and did not go about 3 o'clock on high gain. Battery life may take a hit though. I used the M8's XL4 output to facilitate switching.
  
 Today I opened my DAC2 and moved the headphone amp attenuation jumpers to their 0dB position. Very nice... this thing does have power. And the tonal balance matches very well with the Abyss.


----------



## zardon

music alchemist said:


> I enjoy your enthusiasm and appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. But I think what many here (myself included) would love to see is a comparison between the Abyss and the other TOTL headphones you own.


 

 Will try and make some time if you feel you would like to read it. My gear is split between 2 or 3 rooms and I think its hard to 'compare' headphones when the amplifiers are all different.


----------



## Music Alchemist

zardon said:


> Will try and make some time if you feel you would like to read it. My gear is split between 2 or 3 rooms and I think its hard to 'compare' headphones when the amplifiers are all different.


 
  
 Thank you!!! Although I'm one of the few people like you who would simply get them all eventually, it's still nice to know more about how they differ, especially for the rare out of production models. Even impressions based on memory are better than nothing. If possible, I'd also like to see more specific thoughts about how the other 15 or so amps you used with the Abyss compare to your favorite one.


----------



## zardon

music alchemist said:


> Thank you!!! Although I'm one of the few people like you who would simply get them all eventually, it's still nice to know more about how they differ, especially for the rare out of production models. Even impressions based on memory are better than nothing. If possible, I'd also like to see more specific thoughts about how the other 15 or so amps you used with the Abyss compare to your favorite one.



Ok. My main job is reviewing computer hardware/technology (graphics cards, power supplies etc), I have done a few headphone reviews in the past. Time is always the killer for me really.
 
What headphones do you use primarily now?


----------



## Music Alchemist

zardon said:


> Ok. My main job is reviewing computer hardware/technology (graphics cards, power supplies etc), I own www.Kitguru.net and manage a pretty big team - its a big tech site based in the UK, but I have done a few headphone reviews in the past. Time is always the killer for me really.
> 
> What headphones do you use primarily now?


 
  
 I read all the headphone reviews I can find (at least for the ones I'm interested in), but you don't need to worry about making it fancy. Basically, I just wanted a better idea of the areas in which the headphones and amps differ sound-wise; their strengths and weaknesses and so on. If you don't listen to and thus lack insights for certain genres, that's fine, but I would particularly be interested in how they all perform with metal, electronic, and orchestral genres.
  
 Although I have mid-range headphones, they're nowhere near good enough to be mentioned in this thread. But in the next few weeks, I'm selling some of my stuff and getting the Focal Spirit Professional, Schiit Magni 2 Uber, and Schiit Modi 2 Uber. Not really relevant anyway.


----------



## zardon

music alchemist said:


> I read all the headphone reviews I can find (at least for the ones I'm interested in), but you don't need to worry about making it fancy. Basically, I just wanted a better idea of the areas in which the headphones and amps differ sound-wise; their strengths and weaknesses and so on. If you don't listen to and thus lack insights for certain genres, that's fine, but I would particularly be interested in how they all perform with metal, electronic, and orchestral genres.
> 
> Although I have mid-range headphones, they're nowhere near good enough to be mentioned in this thread. But in the next few weeks, I'm selling some of my stuff and getting the Focal Spirit Professional, Schiit Magni 2 Uber, and Schiit Modi 2 Uber. Not really relevant anyway.


 
 Out some of my thoughts together here: http://www.kitguru.net/site-news/highlights/zardon/abyss-1266-headphone-review/
  
 Hope you find it useful in a buying decision.


----------



## ShanghaiT

What a great write up Zardon. Thank you for sharing.


----------



## Music Alchemist

zardon said:


> Out some of my thoughts together here: http://www.kitguru.net/site-news/highlights/zardon/abyss-1266-headphone-review/
> 
> Hope you find it useful in a buying decision.


 
  
 Cool review...but no comparisons with the Sennheiser Orpheus HE 90 and the 15+ other amps!


----------



## Revogamer

music alchemist said:


> Cool review...but no comparisons with the Sennheiser Orpheus HE 90 and the 15+ other amps!


 
 Part of the journey is experiencing it all yourself


----------



## mulder01

Hmm so looks like HiFi Man is releasing a new flagship single sided planar - the HE1000... I wonder if it will compare...


----------



## bmichels

mulder01 said:


> Hmm so looks like HiFi Man is releasing a new flagship single sided planar - the HE1000... I wonder if it will compare...


 
  
 Ah finally a strong alternative...


----------



## up late

mulder01 said:


> Hmm so looks like HiFi Man is releasing a new flagship single sided planar - the HE1000... I wonder if it will compare...




i'm betting it'll be cheaper


----------



## plakat

Not so sure about that... the rest of the Hifiman lineup is, well, cheap is not the correct word... lets say not outrageously expensive  so they might want to step up their game... Still I've yet to hear a Hifiman that really impresses me.


----------



## up late

cheaper doesn't mean cheap - just less expensive.  i'd be very surprised if the new hifiman flagship costs as much as the abyss but we'll know soon enough.


----------



## plakat

My wild guess would be ~3000,-
  
 Still I'm not overly excited about the Hifiman... I may look into the MOON amp @Nomax mentioned and maybe some mobile headphones... but I think I'm done for open fullsize. The Abyss grew on me the last 2 weeks, really impressive.


----------



## mulder01

I don't think it will make Abyss owners want to sell up and rush out and buy one, but if they can roughly match the sound quality and the aesthetics are better, they will probably be able to steal the customers that are on the fence about the Abyss due to it's looks or price.  
  
 Like plakat, I'm happy with my full size headphones and will probably be looking for some IEMs or something I can take out in public next.


----------



## Elrondo

Had a chance to audition the Abyss at the Can Jam in Denver. To me, the Audeze LCD 3 fazor sounds just as detailed and I prefer the warmer sound of the Audeze. I just liked the sound of the Audeze headphones more  in general than the Abyss, with the Audeze LCD 3's having a lusher sound which really pleases me for long term listening sessions, and not all that out of line with how live music sounds in a really nice hall. So I purchased a pair of the LCD 3's which I'm totally pleased with. To me, the Abyss sounded pretty much just like the HiFiMan HE-6's tonally, spatially, and with regard to overall detail levels.


----------



## cerol

elrondo said:


> Had a chance to audition the Abyss at the Can Jam in Denver. To me, the Audeze LCD 3 fazor sounds just as detailed and I prefer the warmer sound of the Audeze. I just liked the sound of the Audeze headphones more  in general than the Abyss, with the Audeze LCD 3's having a lusher sound which really pleases me for long term listening sessions, and not all that out of line with how live music sounds in a really nice hall. So I purchased a pair of the LCD 3's which I'm totally pleased with. To me, the Abyss sounded pretty much just like the HiFiMan HE-6's tonally, spatially, and with regard to overall detail levels.


 

 Nice to read this, as I just bought Audeze LCD-3 F and now can reject the temptation of the ridiculously priced Abyss. But in my Collection (HD800, Koss ESP950)  I still find STAX the best (SR 007.II + SRM 727). Sometimes I Think of upgrading to STAX 009 - but then I have to persuade myself that most important of all is the SOURCE (i.e. the recording) and not the reproduction.


----------



## ShanghaiT

I also had a chance to recently listen to the Abyss finally at a dealer in Hong Kong while on vacation and came away underwhelmed. 
 Coincidentally after reading a few glowing reviews and before having had a chance to listen to them, I had my mind made up to buy the Cavalli Liquid Gold and Abyss set up. I purchased the Cavalli amp just last week but I think Im going to hold off on ordering the Abyss to see what other offerings crop up for CES.
  
 Perhaps my expectations were too high, but I much prefer the sound of Stax 009 overall. The Abyss were good, but just not as great as I had hoped.


----------



## Elrondo

Yes, I also feel the SR 009 by Stax is an awesome headphone. I went ahead and purchased an SR 009 with a Blue Hawaii amp as I prefer the sound of the Stax for most acoustic music and I prefer the LCD 3's for most  rock, jazz,  older recordings, and electronic music. That being said, the Stax sound just great with rock and electronica, and the LCD 3's sound wonderful with classical and acoustic music. 
 Actually, my comment that the Abyss sounds very similar to the HiFiMan HE-6 is in no way a criticism. The HE-6 is a wonderful headphone as well, and this should be seen as a compliment to the Abyss. In my opinion, however, many reviewers tend to be impressed with the cost of a particular product, and may tend to hear a better sound when a given component is more expensive. Psychoacoustics are therefore a great factor in any review, as all reviews, including this one, are subjective. 
 Given all this, to my ears, the SR-009's still seem to be the ones to beat. Quite an exceptional transducer.


----------



## plakat

I think all of them are up there in the realm of "decision by taste"... To me neither the Stax nor the Audeze offerings could win me over, while I like the Abyss quite a bit. But my taste in music is obviously quite different from yours, so thats no surprise I guess.
  
 Expecting an overwhelming experience on an audition is almost a recipe for disappointment I think: No headphone at this level should work with effects that quickly catch your ear but become tiresome in the long run. So each one my need some time to appreciate its respective qualities. And especially the Abyss takes some work to get the correct fit, involving bending the headband which may not be what a dealer is willing to let one do.
  
 I guess the price may have two different effects: either one bows down "its expensive, it must be *the best ever*" or one expects too much "it just in't *that* good". Both variants are not the best condition for judging its qualities... but of course hard to overcome. It always boils down to the simple question: is it worth its asking price to me? Obviously my answer was "yes", but I since started pondering another question: what small setup could I live with? I.e. what combination DAC/Amp/headphone is a minimal setup that gives me satisfaction, covers most of my use cases and is robust enough to give many years of joy? I think the T1 is still more of that for me...


----------



## isquirrel

elrondo said:


> Had a chance to audition the Abyss at the Can Jam in Denver. To me, the Audeze LCD 3 fazor sounds just as detailed and I prefer the warmer sound of the Audeze. I just liked the sound of the Audeze headphones more  in general than the Abyss, with the Audeze LCD 3's having a lusher sound which really pleases me for long term listening sessions, and not all that out of line with how live music sounds in a really nice hall. So I purchased a pair of the LCD 3's which I'm totally pleased with. To me, the Abyss sounded pretty much just like the HiFiMan HE-6's tonally, spatially, and with regard to overall detail levels.


 

 I am about to spend a couple of days with a friends Abyss, so will really be able to spend some time with it in my system until then I reserve my final assesment. I have however heard it on several occasions and for my tastes I prefer the LCD-3F, I would also add that people with that kind of budget typically have high end DAC's and amps and may not have had a chance to have spent a while with the LCD-3F. Much prefer it over the LCD-X which I also have.
  
 It all comes down to your sonic tastes.


----------



## mulder01

isquirrel said:


> I am about to spend a couple of days with a friends Abyss, so will really be able to spend some time with it in my system until then I reserve my final assesment. I have however heard it on several occasions and for my tastes I prefer the LCD-3F, I would also add that people with that kind of budget typically have high end DAC's and amps and may not have had a chance to have spent a while with the LCD-3F. Much prefer it over the LCD-X which I also have.
> 
> It all comes down to your sonic tastes.


 
  
 It surely does come down to personal taste.  I would rank the headphones you mentioned Abyss > LCD-X >LCD-3
  
 Elrondo and ShanghaiT, what amp did you do your audition on?


----------



## up late

more interested in how the new hifiman flagship will compare to the abyss


----------



## mulder01

up late said:


> more interested in how the new hifiman flagship will compare to the abyss


 
  
 Had a bit of a read through the HE-1000 thread and while nobody is directly giving a price range, the members that claim to know the price told someone that it will be noticeably more than $2-2.5k, and to think more along the lines of Orpheus system pricing when paired with the new hifi man flagship amp.  Not sure if these members actually know the price or are just speculating, but the Orpheus seems to get mentioned a lot and they are demoing the HE-1000 next to it.  I'm assuming they're doing that to give people some sort of indication of the price bracket they're aiming for.  Having said that, I won't be surprised if they price the headphone by itself a little lower than the Abyss as a marketing technique, but probably not much lower by the sounds of it.  Anyone with their fingers crossed for a budget Abyss killer might end up disappointed.  No doubt some will prefer the sound though.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

elrondo said:


> Had a chance to audition the Abyss at the Can Jam in Denver.




Which of our set-ups did you listen to?


----------



## up late

mulder01 said:


> Had a bit of a read through the HE-1000 thread and while nobody is directly giving a price range, the members that claim to know the price told someone that it will be noticeably more than $2-2.5k, and to think more along the lines of Orpheus system pricing when paired with the new hifi man flagship amp.  Not sure if these members actually know the price or are just speculating, but the Orpheus seems to get mentioned a lot and they are demoing the HE-1000 next to it.  I'm assuming they're doing that to give people some sort of indication of the price bracket they're aiming for.  Having said that, I won't be surprised if they price the headphone by itself a little lower than the Abyss as a marketing technique, but probably not much lower by the sounds of it.  Anyone with their fingers crossed for a budget Abyss killer might end up disappointed.  No doubt some will prefer the sound though.




i see this speculation here with every major new release. hifiman will reveal the price soon enough - watching with interest.


----------



## dBel84

I have yet to find anything that can be called an ABYSS killer 
  
 Quote:


mulder01 said:


> Anyone with their fingers crossed for a budget Abyss killer might end up disappointed.


----------



## Trance_Gott

My Abyss arrived! Wow, what a soundstage and bass. I never hear anything better in this two disciplines. Now I'm searching for the issues in the treble region which Tyll describes. But I cannot hear anything problematic here.
 Joe is it possible Tylls example sounds not the same as the current production? I read something about it. There seems Marv and MuppetFaces Abyss has different sound as Tylls Test example.


----------



## ShanghaiT

mulder01 said:


> It surely does come down to personal taste.  I would rank the headphones you mentioned Abyss > LCD-X >LCD-3
> 
> Elrondo and ShanghaiT, what amp did you do your audition on?




It was a Burson amp ( conductor I believe ) 

At the end of the day I think it will come down to personal taste. For me, they are a step above the audeze line which I have recently heard on several occasions. However, they just are not game changers like the stax 009 are for me.


----------



## bmichels

trance_gott said:


> My Abyss arrived! Wow, what a soundstage and bass. I never hear anything better in this two disciplines. Now I'm searching for the issues in the treble region which Tyll describes. But I cannot hear anything problematic here.


 
  
 I am happy that you enjoy your new toy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   
  
 could you tell us what source and what Amp are you using to drive the ABYSS ?


----------



## Trance_Gott

Violectric V800 DAC with Auralic Taurus MKII


----------



## mulder01

> I have yet to find anything that can be called an ABYSS killer


 
  
 True, I don't think there is much room for improvement sonically.  They're more likely to be a different flavor of sound rather than a step above.


----------



## Elrondo

Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the current HiFiman HE-6 is very similar already to the Abyss, so my guess is that the new HE-1000 will also be a similarly tuned headphone. It will be fun to give it a listen!


----------



## superfred21

elrondo said:


> Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the current HiFiman HE-6 is very similar already to the Abyss, so my guess is that the new HE-1000 will also be a similarly tuned headphone. It will be fun to give it a listen!


 
 I disagree on the similarity between the HE6  and  Abyss.
 The Abyss offers superior soundstage, deeper bass and punchy,  the abyss seems a step higher on a number of criteria


----------



## Elrondo

I am happy to read you can hear these differences in the abyss vis a vi the he 6. I personally was unable to discern them. They both require very similar amplification and are obviously both planars. The build quality on the abyss seemed higher. The HiFiMan seems just great for bass, dynamics, detail and soundstage as well, both are very nice products, they just sound quite similar to me personally.


----------



## negura

I wish that was the case, and as mainly Stax gear person presently, I don't even own the Abyss. But every time I heard both HE-6s & Abyss, I thought the Abyss were at a whole different level than the HE-6s in speed, detail, articulation, soundstage...


----------



## Elrondo

Well, I must say I can hear a difference with the Stax at least. I do feel the Stax is at a higher level of sound quality than the various planars I have heard, though not in bass or dynamics, but rather in transparency, smoothness, and speed.


----------



## deuter

mulder01 said:


> True, I don't think there is much room for improvement sonically.  They're more likely to be a different flavor of sound rather than a step above.




That's what they all say, the fact though is there's always room for improvement. 
When I demoed the Abyss I found it decent, just not my cup of tea . 
I really did enjoy the hd800 though. 
Everyone's taste in musical reproduction is different.


----------



## Trance_Gott

elrondo said:


> Well, I must say I can hear a difference with the Stax at least. I do feel the Stax is at a higher level of sound quality than the various planars I have heard, though not in bass or dynamics, but rather in transparency, smoothness, and speed.


 
 Did you hear the Abyss? Oh my god, it is damn fast, faster then all other planars.


----------



## jhljhl

I do not know if this is appropriate to post here but I have a NEW Cavalli Liquid Gold for sale in the sale forum which I understand pairs very well with the Abyss.


----------



## Elrondo

trance_gott said:


> Did you hear the Abyss? Oh my god, it is damn fast, faster then all other planars.


 

 Yes I have heard it, but only under show conditions. It looks like a very sturdy headphone. I could not distinguish the sonic superiority so many others have noted (compared to the HiFiMan HE-6 or Audeze LCD-3 at least). But then in general I feel the previous generation of magnetic planars  sound very nice, especially in the area of dynamics and bass. But the build quality of the Abyss seems so good, and the build quality of the HE-6 seems so abysmal I can see why the Abyss would be preferred on that basis alone. I'm glad so many have found the Abyss to be so great, that's what this hobby is all about, and it's fun to find a headphone you really love. Next year, when I come to the next Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, it will be fun to hear the Abyss again, to see if it has been improved, or to see if I can possibly hear what everyone is raving about in this forum.


----------



## ShanghaiT

I ended up getting these after not seeing anything of interest from CES. And while I wasn't initially taken by them at the store demo a few weeks ago, My first 24 hours with them has been very pleasurable and given me a much greater appreciation for them. Just waiting for my liquid gold to clear customs now. 

My impression echoes much of same observations made by previous reviewers in terms of speed, soundstage and bass extension, yet I do find vocals just ever so slightly recessed and lacking the air and transparency of the stax 009s.


----------



## mulder01

Congratulations man, glad you decided to give them another try after a not-so-good audition.  I had a chance to have an extended listen to them in a quiet store and thought they were brilliant, then I heard them again months later at a show and wasn't really blown away. I think you need a bit of time and quiet to be able to appreciate them properly.  
  
 On another note, I noticed you have the edition 5 and the 009 - In your opinion is the edition 5 on the same level sound wise as the Abyss / 009 (because it's price is roughly the same) or are you just paying for the exclusivity of the 555 limited edition and it's just a nicer version of the edition 8?


----------



## ShanghaiT

I don't think the Edition 5's is at the same level as the 009's or the Abyss in terms of pure sound quality. However, I purchased them for an entirely different reasons: portability and isolation. And once those are factored in, I don't think anything out there beats them. I travel quite bit and also needed a pair for the office. I was able to compare them to the best closed headphones on the market and think they readily beat most of them. 
  
 That being said, I think the price of the limited editions is a joke though given that the recently released the unlimited versions for nearly half the price. I was able to compare them side by side and they are identical. Unfortunately the unlimited's were not released when I purchased my ED5's
  
 A review I recently wrote of them:
  http://www.head-fi.org/products/edition-5/reviews/12271


----------



## ShanghaiT

Any Abyss owners tried any upgrade cables with any success? Im a huge fan of Nordost and am contemplating the heimdall 2 set.


----------



## Nomax

The Stock Cable from JPS LABS are the best,so you don't need other Cables for this Masterpiece

Here a picture from CES 2015 ABYSS&MOON NEO -And it's also my OWN PERFECT SOLUTION




Regards NOMAX


----------



## Kiats

shanghait said:


> Any Abyss owners tried any upgrade cables with any success? Im a huge fan of Nordost and am contemplating the heimdall 2 set.




I'm currently using the Abyss with Toxic Cables' Copper Venom. I also use the Abyss with Tralucent's Uber cable.


----------



## Kiats




----------



## negura

kiats said:


> I'm currently using the Abyss with Toxic Cables' Copper Venom. I also use the Abyss with Tralucent's Uber cable.


 
  
 Would you say there were any sound improvements?


----------



## Fririce0003

kiats said:


> I'm currently using the Abyss with Toxic Cables' Copper Venom. I also use the Abyss with Tralucent's Uber cable.




I'd also like to hear your thoughts on the cable change, wouldn't mind getting the abyss a tad more intimate but still retaining their speed and weight. Especially heading a friends LCD3F's and how intimate and emotive they are with anything acoustic or vocal. 
 I might write up a quick comparison of the two after dinner, I found the results rather interesting.


----------



## Fririce0003

Got some food in me, so here are my findings comparing my Abyss with the LCD3F.
 The setup was Aurdivarna>Davinci DAC>WA234 using Tung Sol round plates, Takatsuki 300B and 274B tubes. Power cords were Shunyata going through the shunyata triton and typhon. Interconnect were cardas clear and USB was a LH light speed.
 Ok first up the parts you expected from the abyss, they were faster, had more bass quantity and slam as well as a wider soundstage and slightly more detail. The way I'd describe it is emulating a big rig speaker setup.
 Now onto the part that surprised me, I had heard the LCD3 before and it was nice, nothing particularly grabbed my attention though. Now switch to the 3F, it has got to be the most emotive, intimate and immersive headphone I've ever heard. Lush mids, staging makes it seem as though your right up face to face with the vocalist with the band playing around you. Sure you trade off some speed and slam but if my main listening was acoustic, jazz, classical or vocal I'd honestly choose the 3F over the Abyss. I'd also choose the 3F over the Abyss if you've got a properly setup big rig, the Abyss would just seem far to similar. So with the headphone side you may as well go something unique to headphones and that would be intimacy.
 On the vocal and instrumentals I listened to the 3F the Abyss just seemed detached from the music comparatively, technically impressive, but not as immersive.
 For my listening I still prefer the Abyss, since I mainly listen to electronic, vocaloid, rock and J-Pop, the extra speed and weight to the bass makes it a more engaging listen for those genres to me. For me the 3F gets a tad too contested for some electronic and j-pop tracks when you've got vocals, guitars, drums, bass and electronic effects. The extra spacing and wider soundstage of the abyss comes in handy for that. Which was the only draw back for the 3F's intimacy.
 Overall I'd say the 3F is a great performer for the price, especially if you're after an intimate, emotive affair. It still has a good amount of bass extension and weight, just not quite as much as the Abyss.
 The Abyss doesn't quite represent as good value for money, but it does present a sound which is unique to the abyss in how well it emulates a big rig. That's what I was drawn to and it also suits my taste in music... But if you're looking at the price, $7000 AUD, and expecting it to be all and end all your going to be disappointed. It's one headphone I'd suggest to listen to, go home think on it and then go listen again to confirm because it is a big investment and you'd have to be after the sound it produces. 
 I'm still happy with my Abyss purchase, but after hearing the 3F I have to admit it has a great price/performance ratio especially if you're after the sound signature it produces.

I also had a brief listen to a BHSE 009 rig but it wasn't for me. If you'd like my opinion on that feel free to ask, but keep in mind since I wasn't after that type of sound it may be a tad bias.

Hope that helps anyone who's on the fence about an Abyss purchase. And also if you have a chance audition the SR-009 and LCD3F before your purchase. I say this because these offer 3 different sound characteristics at an "end game" level.


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> Got some food in me, so here are my findings comparing my Abyss with the LCD3F.
> The setup was Aurdivarna>Davinci DAC>WA234 using Tung Sol round plates, Takatsuki 300B and 274B tubes. Power cords were Shunyata going through the shunyata triton and typhon. Interconnect were cardas clear and USB was a LH light speed.
> Ok first up the parts you expected from the abyss, they were faster, had more bass quantity and slam as well as a wider soundstage and slightly more detail. The way I'd describe it is emulating a big rig speaker setup.
> Now onto the part that surprised me, I had heard the LCD3 before and it was nice, nothing particularly grabbed my attention though. Now switch to the 3F, it has got to be the most emotive, intimate and immersive headphone I've ever heard. Lush mids, staging makes it seem as though your right up face to face with the vocalist with the band playing around you. Sure you trade off some speed and slam but if my main listening was acoustic, jazz, classical or vocal I'd honestly choose the 3F over the Abyss. I'd also choose the 3F over the Abyss if you've got a properly setup big rig, the Abyss would just seem far to similar. So with the headphone side you may as well go something unique to headphones and that would be intimacy.
> ...


 

 Great insightful post, my findings exactly. It all comes down to your musical preferences.


----------



## Kiats

fririce0003 said:


> I'd also like to hear your thoughts on the cable change, wouldn't mind getting the abyss a tad more intimate but still retaining their speed and weight. Especially heading a friends LCD3F's and how intimate and emotive they are with anything acoustic or vocal.
> I might write up a quick comparison of the two after dinner, I found the results rather interesting.




To me, at least, the mids are more engaging with the aftermarket cables.


----------



## isquirrel

kiats said:


> To me, at least, the mids are more engaging with the aftermarket cables.


 
 Sounds good, big difference ?


----------



## Fririce0003

kiats said:


> To me, at least, the mids are more engaging with the aftermarket cables.




 That sounds very promising, does it still retain the same speed though?
 They look very striking in red as well which is a plus for me  Always been wanting to try some after market cables since my Abyss cable has a kink at the headphone connector. Seems like they cut one wire longer when they were soldering it and the slack is blushing a bit making the kink. 
 The DHC Silver Spore looks pretty interesting as well, but at that price with almost no reviews in English, I'm a tad hesitant.
 Thanks for getting back on that


----------



## Kiats

Chaps, let's just say that Tralucent's Uber cable retains the speed while improving the microdetails and dynamic range. And the mids are more engaging. The bass is very tight. 

Toxic Cable Copper Venom probably is a bit slower but more mellow and has deeper sub bass. 

Basically, I have both because they bring different things to the table. But both are very enjoyable.


----------



## Kiats

By the way, I have the LCD 3C and I use it with the new toxic cables SW22 (it's a loaner), Carda Clear balanced, and tralucent Uber cables. Very engaging mids. But once the Abyss is paired with the copper venom or Uber, the game is up.


----------



## Fririce0003

kiats said:


> By the way, I have the LCD 3C and I use it with the new toxic cables SW22 (it's a loaner), Carda Clear balanced, and tralucent Uber cables. Very engaging mids. But once the Abyss is paired with the copper venom or Uber, the game is up.




Cool, thanks for the heads up. Sounds like I'll have to give some after market cables a go... Once my bank account recovers a bit. :S
 Where did you order the uber's from? Can't find them on tralucents site.


----------



## Kiats

fririce0003 said:


> Cool, thanks for the heads up. Sounds like I'll have to give some after market cables a go... Once my bank account recovers a bit. :S
> Where did you order the uber's from? Can't find them on tralucents site.




Gavin, who owns Tralucent, and uses the Uber for his Abyss as well, goes by Spkrs01 in head-fi: drop him a PM.


----------



## subtle

fririce0003 said:


> Got some food in me, so here are my findings comparing my Abyss with the LCD3F.


 
  
 Excellent feedback Fririce.
 Thank you very much for sharing your impressions and saving me a large chunk of change in the process.


----------



## bmichels

kiats said:


> I'm currently using the Abyss with Toxic Cables' Copper Venom. I also use the Abyss with Tralucent's Uber cable.


 
  
  
 GORGEOUS !  This Red Cable "almost" makes the ABYSS look good ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Congratulation...


----------



## Fririce0003

subtle said:


> Excellent feedback Fririce.
> Thank you very much for sharing your impressions and saving me a large chunk of change in the process.




 No worries, glad I could help. While I love the sound of the abyss I know it's not for everyone, especially at that price.
 I've heard from a friend that a good middle ground between the 3F and the Abyss is the LCD X. It still has most of the warmth but backs of some immediacy for more instrumental deprecation which allows you to hear details more clearly. I haven't been able to confirm it myself but I do trust his ears. Though the X's don't like bright gear, accordingly studio 6, Hugo, don't even think of pairing the phones with them.


----------



## Nomax

Here some Pics from our Meeting in Vienna with some other ABYSS OWNERS!(PLAKAT,MYSELF)








REGARDS NOMAX


----------



## Trance_Gott

My dream combo is now complete. What a sound ... simply amazing!!!


----------



## mulder01

Ah the moon neo.  I wonder if Nomax had anything to do with that   Are you or Nomax using the on board DAC with this?  Nice to think an endgame amp+dac could be in the same box...


----------



## metalboss

trance_gott said:


> My dream combo is now complete. What a sound ... simply amazing!!!


 
 Very nice mah man... I'm getting mine soon...


----------



## JustinS

Well, I've gawn an dun it!! Agreed with my dealer today a deal to p/x my speakers for a pair of Abyss and HD800 headphones to pair with my Mcintosh MHA100. There at the shop waiting for me to collect - hopefully Thursday. M-U-S-T K-E-E-P C-A-L-M.......


----------



## pearljam50000

Please post a comparison between the Abyss and the HD800 , thanks.


----------



## JustinS

Yeah, be happy to!


----------



## Music Alchemist

XD


----------



## plakat

I'm speechless... Considering that they might cost a lot more than the already not that cheap standard edition... but well, taste does not have a price tag I guess


----------



## mulder01

They would have to be forkin' out $10k+ for these customized monstrosities I reckon


----------



## customcoco

Certainly some taste-less rapper going for the most expensive pair of cans they can get...
  
 If I were to design a custom pair, I'd go for the following :
  
 Standard non-anodized aluminium for the frame cups and outer grill, tan leather for the pads and headband, deep blue anodized screws for the sake of contrast and perhaps a deep brown interior grill.
  
 Sounds good to me...


----------



## plakat

Actually I'm quite happy with their default color scheme. In I think Henry Fords tradition: color doesn't matter as long as its black 
  
 And No, I'm not one of those people that would live with something they see as ugly just because of its sound...


----------



## fastphones

Must be the Lady Gaga edition! Truly grotesque!


----------



## plakat

At second thought: they missed out on using strass/rhinestone for the Abyss logo on the headband... possibilities are endless


----------



## fastphones

Errrr, its not a real product is it? I mean it has been Photo Shopped or something, right?


----------



## Music Alchemist

plakat said:


> I'm speechless... Considering that they might cost a lot more than the already not that cheap standard edition... but well, taste does not have a price tag I guess


 
  
 Let's not forget this other gem from October:
  

  


> Custom one-of-a-kind AB-1266 made for one customer per his spec. Polished purple and gold, soft snakeskin pads, the only stock components are the transducers. Expensive, and Wild!


 
  
 Gives new meaning to the phrase, "Pimp your headphone!" XD
  
 Also note the spider web design. Those familiar with the Abyss prototype will appreciate this. I wonder if it alters acoustics...
  
 Originally, there was going to be the option to insert discs into that area to customize the sound, but the plans were scrapped.
  


customcoco said:


> Certainly some taste-less rapper going for the most expensive pair of cans they can get...
> 
> If I were to design a custom pair, I'd go for the following :
> 
> ...


 
  
 If I ever had a custom one made, I'd at least try to avoid goofy color schemes like the two so far. Red and black is pretty awesome to my tastes, but...
  


plakat said:


> Actually I'm quite happy with their default color scheme. In I think Henry Fords tradition: color doesn't matter as long as its black
> 
> And No, I'm not one of those people that would live with something they see as ugly just because of its sound...


 
  
 ...I have to agree that the all black is fine and dandy.
  


fastphones said:


> Errrr, its not a real product is it? I mean it has been Photo Shopped or something, right?


 
  
 It is an actual photo of a genuine Abyss, shared on Abyss Headphones' Facebook page.
  


> Another one of a kind Abyss headphone headed to it's new owner- Ostrich and all...


----------



## Music Alchemist

So who else is going to the big Michigan Head-Fi meet in a few months?
  
 I may showcase some gear there, and naturally, they will have the Abyss and lots of other high-end stuff.


----------



## ShanghaiT

I noticed a strange smell coming from these after 2 weeks of use. Its not overwhelming, but definitely present. Its a metallic-like burning smell that reminds me of a circuit board that has shorted out.
 I thought something was coming from my electronics stack, but found out its from the headphones. 
  
 Anyone else notice this?


----------



## mulder01

uh oh
 Both drivers?  Is it possible you drove them too hard?
 Mine smell like leather


----------



## ShanghaiT

Yeah, both have that smell. I drove them from my hugo last night. Moderate to loud volume but nothing excessive. Hmmmm.


----------



## plakat

music alchemist said:


> Let's not forget this other gem from October:
> 
> Gives new meaning to the phrase, "Pimp your headphone!" XD
> 
> Also note the spider web design. Those familiar with the Abyss prototype will appreciate this. I wonder if it alters acoustics...


 
  
 Oh my... just had to make sure mine is still black on black and nobody got in at night to change that 
  
 Regarding the spider web: given how sensitive these drivers react to different load (i.e. air resistance and reflexions) I can well imagine that it can make a difference.


----------



## Music Alchemist

plakat said:


> Oh my... just had to make sure mine is still black on black and nobody got in at night to change that
> 
> Regarding the spider web: given how sensitive these drivers react to different load (i.e. air resistance and reflexions) I can well imagine that it can make a difference.


 
  
 hehe
  
 Yeah, the prototype definitely sounded different, but not only due to the spider web.
  
 My dream custom Abyss would be fairly simple: blood red and black (undecided on specifics) with the spider web and those tuning discs which were never implemented.


----------



## JustinS

Just to update my experiences over the last 2 days. Yesterday was the day that I dropped off my speakers, and drove home with a pair of Abyss and HD800 headphones. It was a 3 hour drive home, and I was looking forward to plugging the Abyss into my Mcintosh MHA100. 

I walked through the door, and spent about 30 minutes unpacking everything, and adjusting the headband to suit. Then the moment came, plugging them in, and turning up the volume! The initial reaction was as favourable as I got during the demo, a larger scale compared to my PS1000/HD800. I sat and listened for another 3 songs, but on the last song, it didn't sound as detailed as I remebered. After unplugging the Abyss, and plugging in the HD800s, I played that same song, WOW! Suddenly all the detail and air and soundstage was back, everything was so much more musical. I compared the 2 headphones over the next 20 minutes, but I had already formed my opinion, and that is what this is, my opinion, yours may vary. 

Unbelievably within 45 minutes of unpacking them, I had closed the lid on the Abyss, quite literally, they were put by the front door for returning in the morning. I spent the rest of the evening listening with the HD800, appreciating just how good they are. Now I totally understand that this could just be a mismatch of the Mcintosh/Abyss pairing, but I couldn't return them and get my speakers back quick enough. What a bargain the HD800s are, and the Abyss, well, let's just say, good riddance!


----------



## preproman




----------



## negura

I would have kept the Abyss, HD800s and get a good amp.


----------



## Music Alchemist

justins said:


> Just to update my experiences over the last 2 days. Yesterday was the day that I dropped off my speakers, and drove home with a pair of Abyss and HD800 headphones. It was a 3 hour drive home, and I was looking forward to plugging the Abyss into my Mcintosh MHA100.
> 
> I walked through the door, and spent about 30 minutes unpacking everything, and adjusting the headband to suit. Then the moment came, plugging them in, and turning up the volume! The initial reaction was as favourable as I got during the demo, a larger scale compared to my PS1000/HD800. I sat and listened for another 3 songs, but on the last song, it didn't sound as detailed as I remebered. After unplugging the Abyss, and plugging in the HD800s, I played that same song, WOW! Suddenly all the detail and air and soundstage was back, everything was so much more musical. I compared the 2 headphones over the next 20 minutes, but I had already formed my opinion, and that is what this is, my opinion, yours may vary.
> 
> Unbelievably within 45 minutes of unpacking them, I had closed the lid on the Abyss, quite literally, they were put by the front door for returning in the morning. I spent the rest of the evening listening with the HD800, appreciating just how good they are. Now I totally understand that this could just be a mismatch of the Mcintosh/Abyss pairing, but I couldn't return them and get my speakers back quick enough. What a bargain the HD800s are, and the Abyss, well, let's just say, good riddance!


 
  
 Even as an Abyss fanboy, I can totally understand your perspective.
  
 I will probably get the HD 800 long before the Abyss, mainly due to the cost differential. Plus, I can add it to my existing system and get pretty high up there on its sound quality potential scale.


----------



## JustinS

negura said:


> I would have kept the Abyss, HD800s and get a good amp.




 , yeah, yeah.! Do you have suggestions which amp to pair it with, must be Amp/Dac combo. The thing is, they did sound good in the shop with the Oppo amp, although I couldn't do a direct comparison. The dealers sell Burson as well, just been reading about the SL Conductor.


----------



## Music Alchemist

justins said:


> , yeah, yeah.! Do you have suggestions which amp to pair it with, must be Amp/Dac combo. The thing is, they did sound good in the shop with the Oppo amp, although I couldn't do a direct comparison. The dealers sell Burson as well, just been reading about the SL Conductor.


 
  
 Which McIntosh amp did you use?


----------



## JustinS

Mcintosh MHA100.


----------



## Music Alchemist

justins said:


> Mcintosh MHA100.


 
  
 Its maximum headphone power output is 1W. The Abyss requires more than that to tap into its full potential.
  
 Which OPPO amp did you use at the shop?


----------



## negura

justins said:


> , yeah, yeah.! Do you have suggestions which amp to pair it with, must be Amp/Dac combo. The thing is, they did sound good in the shop with the Oppo amp, although I couldn't do a direct comparison. The dealers sell Burson as well, just been reading about the SL Conductor.


 
  
 I've not heard either of those with the Abyss. The full Conductor is good with other planars. But if I had to chooose between those options, I would probably go with the Oppo HA-1 for the headamp part.


----------



## JustinS

music alchemist said:


> Its maximum headphone power output is 1W. The Abyss requires more than that to tap into its full potential.
> 
> Which OPPO amp did you use at the shop?




The HA-1


----------



## Music Alchemist

justins said:


> The HA-1


 
  
 Yep, just compare their output specs and it should be clear why one sounded better, even without getting into more complex stuff.
  
 HA-1:
  

  
 MHA100:


----------



## Fririce0003

justins said:


> Just to update my experiences over the last 2 days. Yesterday was the day that I dropped off my speakers, and drove home with a pair of Abyss and HD800 headphones. It was a 3 hour drive home, and I was looking forward to plugging the Abyss into my Mcintosh MHA100.
> 
> I walked through the door, and spent about 30 minutes unpacking everything, and adjusting the headband to suit. Then the moment came, plugging them in, and turning up the volume! The initial reaction was as favourable as I got during the demo, a larger scale compared to my PS1000/HD800. I sat and listened for another 3 songs, but on the last song, it didn't sound as detailed as I remebered. After unplugging the Abyss, and plugging in the HD800s, I played that same song, WOW! Suddenly all the detail and air and soundstage was back, everything was so much more musical. I compared the 2 headphones over the next 20 minutes, but I had already formed my opinion, and that is what this is, my opinion, yours may vary.
> 
> Unbelievably within 45 minutes of unpacking them, I had closed the lid on the Abyss, quite literally, they were put by the front door for returning in the morning. I spent the rest of the evening listening with the HD800, appreciating just how good they are. Now I totally understand that this could just be a mismatch of the Mcintosh/Abyss pairing, but I couldn't return them and get my speakers back quick enough. What a bargain the HD800s are, and the Abyss, well, let's just say, good riddance!




 It's good to hear that you were able to come back with a definitive favourite between the two. Having owned both I can certainly see how it'd be one or the other, very different sounds signatures and presentation. 
 Having read that you prefer the HD800 to the abyss, it may be worth using the money saved from the abyss and investing in a SR009 system. The draw card about the HD800 to me were the highs, soundstage and detail. The SR009 has slightly more soundstage but a fair amount more detail and crisp highs, which may be to your liking.
 Always thought with the "TOTL" headphones it was the Abyss and 009, as a very, very broad rule if you like the HD800 go with the 009, if you like the PS1000 go with the abyss.
Though the HE1000 may change things, looks rather interesting.
 Best of luck on your head fi travels and enjoy the new rig!


----------



## JustinS

Thanks guys. I would feel as though I was doing the Abyss a mis service not to pair it with something better than the Oppo, not sure on people's thoughts? 

I have had a pair of 009 (and 007 Kimik) which were fed with a Rega Isis, I found them a little dull compared to the PS1000.

Please forward any more thoughts that you might have. So to summarise, my Mcintosh does not have the power to drive the Abyss.

Many thanks.


----------



## Music Alchemist

justins said:


> Thanks guys. I would feel as though I was doing the Abyss a mis service not to pair it with something better than the Oppo, not sure on people's thoughts?
> 
> I have had a pair of 009 (and 007 Kimik) which were fed with a Rega Isis, I found them a little dull compared to the PS1000.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Even the amp I have right now can "drive" it; just not all the way. The person who designed the AB-1266 told me that it needs something between 4 and 8 watts (don't recall the exact figure) to reach its peak.
  
 Personally, I want the Schiit Ragnarok. It's much more affordable than other TOTL amps, and look at the power!
  


> *Maximum Power, 4 ohms: *100W RMS per channel
> *Maximum Power, 8 ohms:* 60W RMS per channel
> *Maximum Power, 32 ohms: *15W RMS per channel
> *Maximum Power, 50 ohms: *10W RMS per channel
> ...


 
  
 (My god...)


----------



## JustinS

Certainy looks impressive! Wouldn't suit me, as I would only consider Amp/DAC, but I can appreciate the appeal. I think I will put the Abyss behind me (as much as I could see its potential) due to really liking the Mcintosh/HD800 and PS1000 sound. I just had the opportunity to off load my redundant speakers and get the Abyss with no financial outlay. I really don't want to spend the time to look for another amp to use exclusively for the Abyss, as that seems wasteful, and will prevent me enjoying my current setup. 

Shame it didn't happen.


----------



## Music Alchemist

justins said:


> Certainy looks impressive! Wouldn't suit me, as I would only consider Amp/DAC, but I can appreciate the appeal. I think I will put the Abyss behind me (as much as I could see its potential) due to really liking the Mcintosh/HD800 and PS1000 sound. I just had the opportunity to off load my redundant speakers and get the Abyss with no financial outlay. I really don't want to spend the time to look for another amp to use exclusively for the Abyss, as that seems wasteful, and will prevent me enjoying my current setup.
> 
> Shame it didn't happen.


 
  
 Yeah, if it's too much trouble, there's no point worrying about it.
  
 By the way, guys, zerodeefex posted his impressions of the upcoming Schiit Yggdrasil here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/752914/yggdrasil-a-p-review-two-days-of-paradise
  
 (The HD 800 and Abyss were used during the home audition.)


----------



## Fririce0003

justins said:


> Thanks guys. I would feel as though I was doing the Abyss a mis service not to pair it with something better than the Oppo, not sure on people's thoughts?
> 
> I have had a pair of 009 (and 007 Kimik) which were fed with a Rega Isis, I found them a little dull compared to the PS1000.
> 
> ...




The Abyss do scale very well with better gear, so do the HD800, I've tried the Abyss with a few different amps. Surprisingly my favourites have all been tubed amps. Here's a brief summary of my findings, in order of my preference.

 WA234: Best overall, detailed, fast, rich and musical. Does everything right compared to all the other amps I've tried. And background is dead silent. Especially euphonic sound, decay just trails off into the pitch black background.

 WA5: Similar to the 234 but back about 15% overall. Slightly more background noise, more emphasis on highs in some tracks making sibilance more of an issue. Louder background dulls detail a tad and reduces dynamics comparatively. Still a fast, musical and detailed amp with the right tubes, but no 234.

 Cypher Labs Prautes: Very quick amp, slightly quicker then the WA5. Not as quick as the 234. Slightly bright but was fresh out of the box, plenty of bass weight and impact and detail retrieval is good too. Bass adjustment knob can be handy as well. Slightly narrower soundstage than the WA5.

 GS-X MKII: Low background noise, excellent detail retrieval and a flat, quick response. Very good at rendering different sound textures. Small soundstage though, but that helps bring out the details. Also due to the small soundstage decay is very immediate so there's not much of a euphonic feel to the music, more straight to the point.

 V281: Best "budget" amp for the abyss, a bit bright straight out of the box. Decent soundstage and detail retrieval, sound sig is on the brighter side of neutral, a tad more euphonic than the GS-X but decay smears a little compared to the Woo's.

 Luxman P700u: Very musical amp, wide soundstage but not very deep. Draw card is the syrupy smooth mids, trade off is detail retrieval and extension both high and low. Plus speed is backed off. Great for classical, jazz and simple vocal. But may be a tad too mid centric and slow for most other genres.

 Cavalli LAu: IMO overpriced for what it delivers, tries to be all things to all people, but falls short on all fronts and lacks direction. It doesn't do things bad, but it doesn't do things good either. Yes all the other amps, excluding maybe the 234, have drawbacks. But they make up for that with a clear direction of what they're trying to achieve with their sound. Eg soundstage, go for the 234 or WA5, speed and thump go the Prautes, detail GS-X, lush mids P-700u, cheaper amp that can easily punch above it's weight V281. The LAu just doesn't have anything to really draw you to it, you listen and think "yeah it's good, but there's other amps at a comparable price that can best it in all areas"

Hope that helps, I don't quite know how much power the abyss need, but they do need clean power and seem to do better with an overhead. It's worth noting that I listen at fairly low levels, for day to day listening I keep it's peaks under 80db which ends up being about 65db with pink noise. The loudest I go is 95db peaks which is around 77db pink noise. Also the only amps I've spent a good couple days or more with are the GS-X, WA 5 and 234.


----------



## Music Alchemist

I would be very interested in your impressions of the 234 vs Ragnarok, if you ever hear both.


----------



## Fririce0003

music alchemist said:


> I would be very interested in your impressions of the 234 vs Ragnarok, if you ever hear both.




234's should be here next weekend if shipping all goes well, been waiting for a while now, it's been killing me. If I get the chance to try out the Rag I'll be sure to post my impressions


----------



## JustinS

Guys, thanks for the help and advice, much appreciated. Listening to the Mcintosh/HD800 now, missing some scale perhaps, but for the money, it suits me.

Thanks again.


----------



## negura

Yes - the Abyss are awfully expensive. I like them, but the SQ doesn't scale with the money accordingly, thus I think you made a wise choice there. Not so sure about the amp though, but for the HD800s it's better.


----------



## Music Alchemist

I hope people who got the Abyss recently were made aware of the AB-1266 Lite. Great way to save a thousand bucks on the same headphone.


----------



## Trance_Gott

I had the Taurus MKII which drives the Abyss very good. Now I have the Moon 430HA and this is a pair made in heaven! Awesome sound and the Moon has power!


----------



## Yoga

Very excited to have a pair of these delivered to me on Monday. I'll be testing with a Hugo, Ragnarok, Conductor, LCD-3F and LCD-X if anyone is interested. I might nab some HD800s too next week to complete the line-up.


----------



## Yoga

music alchemist said:


> I would be very interested in your impressions of the 234 vs Ragnarok, if you ever hear both.


 

 234 v L.Au v Rag is the test to do. Especially with the Abyss!


----------



## Fririce0003

yoga said:


> 234 v L.Au v Rag is the test to do. Especially with the Abyss!




 I can confirm, for my tastes at least, the LAu comes no where near the WA5, let alone 234, for driving the Abyss in fact most amps I've heard can easily one up the LAu in a fair few areas. It tries to do everything but falls short on all accounts instead of focusing on a specific direction, or set there of.
 Haven't heard the Rag yet though.


----------



## Yoga

fririce0003 said:


> I can confirm, for my tastes at least, the LAu comes no where near the WA5, let alone 234, for driving the Abyss in fact most amps I've heard can easily one up the LAu in a fair few areas. It tries to do everything but falls short on all accounts instead of focusing on a specific direction, or set there of.
> Haven't heard the Rag yet though.


 

 Thanks buddy. Wish Woo was more available in the UK.
  
 Look forward to your thoughts on the Rag.


----------



## pearljam50000

What justifies the price difference between the HD800 and the Abyss?
Don't want to annoy anyone, just wondering...


----------



## up late

desire


----------



## FiftyKilo

please read my comments about the Abyss in the last entries of the " Yggdrasil A Previeu - Two days of paradise" and you very clear see and understand, why the Abyss is worth any money. 
Ralf


----------



## Fririce0003

pearljam50000 said:


> What justifies the price difference between the HD800 and the Abyss?
> Don't want to annoy anyone, just wondering...




 They're both top tier headphones, it's more about what type of presentation you prefer and if your willing to pay the difference for it.
 The HD800 is detailed, has a massive soundstage and is well extended. Though to me it's soundstage sounds artificial in its spacing compared to live music and speakers. Sound is also a tad thin and etched due to its brighter sig and larger stage. Also not too much bass weight despite it reaching low.
 The Abyss trades a little soundstage but gains a lot of bass weight, impact and speed. It's the closest headphone I've heard to emulating a proper big rig system, think big Wilson audio speakers. It still retains about as much detail retrieval and soundstage whilst narrower extends deeper and higher. 
 With any of the TOTL headphones it's more about the presentation and signature you want more than one being definitively better. There are aspects of other headphones, such as the; LCD-3F, LCD-X, HD800 and SR009, which I think are done better than the abyss. But for the sound I'm after and the music I listen to the overall package of the Abyss was better for me. The difference in price is a bit of a downer though.
 If your going in with the mid set "At that price it better be all and end all!" You'll be disappointed. But if you go in just for a listen, knowing what your after from your system you'll quickly be able to tell if they're for you or not. Disregard price when auditioning as it can easily skew your views, after you get an impression that's when you should weigh up the financial offset to the audible benefits.


----------



## Yoga

fririce0003 said:


> Disregard price when auditioning as it can easily skew your views, after you get an impression that's when you should weigh up the financial offset to the audible benefits.


 
  
 Simple, but golden advice.


----------



## up late

price usually is disregarded in high-end audio no?


----------



## Yoga

up late said:


> price usually is disregarded in high-end audio no?


 

 Some have the spare cash, some saves months (years) for their gear. Very different perspectives of purchasing.


----------



## up late

sure but they're all prepared to pay the asking price which is high. their financial circumstances might be different but their perspectives are similar.


----------



## FiftyKilo

when you playing sub sonic pure wave form music from large Theatre Pipe Organs like I do over a headphone, the constructions must be very rigid and strong. 

The Abyss is build like a tank and beutiful finished. No Plastic or cheap moldings ! and not to forget its build and essembeled in a high price country where the craftsman earn the money which is worth his knowlege and workmanship. So in my eyes this headphone is well calculatet and worth the money which I did payed for him. 

Because of the weak "Euro" we have here in Germany, for the Headfi Lovers in USA the Sennheiser HD 800 will be a bargain. 

So please go straight forward on Monday morning to your Hifi Shop and order a HD800, the German economy will thank you


----------



## Fririce0003

up late said:


> price usually is disregarded in high-end audio no?




 For the manufacturers maybe when they're making a statement product... For the consumers not so much except for a lucky few.
 I may not speak for everyone, but I know I've had to work my ass off to get what I have now. It's not easy paying a car loan, bills, a mortgage and finding spare money for audio gear so I always have to keep price to benefit in mind for a purchase. 
 Audio is my hobby, I also use it as a means to unwind after a tough day at work. So I budget and put in work for it, think 10-12 hour days 5-7 days a week and chuck a couple of nights, 40 hour weekends and early starts in there... Also it's not an office job or one that's overpaid, I'm a 4th year electrical apprentice working installing lifts. The gear in them is by no means simple to install not light and you generally don't get much room to move in a lift shaft.
 It's certainly not blindly throwing cash around. Had to be at work at 4am today, on a Saturday, to get a job done.


----------



## Yoga

up late said:


> sure but they're all prepared to pay the asking price which is high


 

 I agree with you, the intended point being that price can affect critical listening to some more than others, depending on income.
  
 Edit: the above post is the perfect example.


----------



## up late

fririce0003 said:


> For the manufacturers maybe when they're making a statement product... For the consumers not so much except for a lucky few.
> I may not speak for everyone, but I know I've had to work my ass off to get what I have now. It's not easy paying a car loan, bills, a mortgage and finding spare money for audio gear so I always have to keep price to benefit in mind for a purchase.
> Audio is my hobby, I also use it as a means to unwind after a tough day at work. So I budget and put in work for it, think 10-12 hour days 5-7 days a week and chuck a couple of nights, 40 hour weekends and early starts in there... Also it's not an office job or one that's overpaid, I'm a 4th year electrical apprentice working installing lifts. The gear in them is by no means simple to install not light and you generally don't get much room to move in a lift shaft.
> It's certainly not blindly throwing cash around. Had to be at work at 4am today, on a Saturday, to get a job done.




like i said financial circumstances might differ but the objective is the same - to own high end audio gear that you desire for whatever reason. i'm not criticising folks for doing that btw.




yoga said:


> I agree with you, the intended point being that price can affect critical listening to some more than others, depending on income.
> 
> Edit: the above post is the perfect example.




not sure i understand you there


----------



## Fririce0003

up late said:


> like i said financial circumstances might differ but the objective is the same - to own high end audio gear that you desire
> not sure i understand you there




 Sorry I miss interpreted you're initial post, I read it as more saying that the "high end" market was saturated with overly cashed up people just throwing their money around chasing status more than sound. Which is far from the truth. 
 Glad to have that cleared up


----------



## plakat

justins said:


> Guys, thanks for the help and advice, much appreciated. Listening to the Mcintosh/HD800 now, missing some scale perhaps, but for the money, it suits me.
> 
> Thanks again.


 
  
 No need to apologize for (or even feel the need to explain) your decision: If the HD800 fits your taste better, there's nothing wrong with that. To the contrary: it saves you quite a bit of money... While the HD800 is not my thing, I could also live happily with the K812 which fits my taste much better.
  


fririce0003 said:


> For the manufacturers maybe when they're making a statement product... For the consumers not so much except for a lucky few.


 
  
 I think high-end gear is usually much overrated. Most of us ignore 6-digit speakers I think -- and I'm sure most don't feel real pain by not owning those ridiculously overprices fixtures of expensive materials.
 Headphones are different in that many will be able to purchase the high-end models. I think this aspect is an appeal of the hobby, but also a kind of poison for the wallet: the next thing is just slightly out of reach, not far and away. Overall I think good and excellent headphones reach many more people -- which is a good thing. Value / price is generally OK, but some models are quite beyond the point of diminishing returns... still there are very good offers below that point that are not too expensive either.
  
 Which leads me to the point that I would not have been able to finance a 7000€ headphone when I was 21 (which is quite some time ago, but I'm too lazy to account for inflation). Interestingly my quest now goes in the opposite direction and I try to find out, which minimal configuration suits my needs and gives me what I long for: fun listening to my music. The Abyys sure does. But its by no means necessary or the minimum to reach my goal.


----------



## up late

@fririce0003 - no worries. definitely wasn't tarring everyone with the one brush. but the folks you describe are also on the summit with you.


----------



## Fririce0003

plakat said:


> No need to apologize for (or even feel the need to explain) your decision: If the HD800 fits your taste better, there's nothing wrong with that. To the contrary: it saves you quite a bit of money... While the HD800 is not my thing, I could also live happily with the K812 which fits my taste much better.
> 
> 
> I think high-end gear is usually much overrated. Most of us ignore 6-digit speakers I think -- and I'm sure most don't feel real pain by not owning those ridiculously overprices fixtures of expensive materials.
> ...




 Yeah, that's the good thing about headphones. The best stuff is much more financially available to more people, plus the sound you get for the price compared to a full blown big rig is astounding. Though diminishing returns does kick in.
 That's another great thing about head fi, since it's more readily available you get a wider spread of people in the hobby, keeping it alive and diverse. Everyone's got their own goals and tastes, I love logging in and reading peoples findings, seeing the gear they've paired and chipping in my 2 cents to help out


----------



## Fririce0003

up late said:


> @fririce0003 - no worries. definitely wasn't tarring everyone with the one brush. but the folks you describe are also on the summit with you.




Hahaha all good, I've certainly seen some in my travels. Luckily they haven't stayed around too long, they're usually rushing off to the next FOTM


----------



## Nomax

Today we have a New Member/Owner in Club ABYSS from Switzerland!
He is very Happy with this Masterpiece










REGARDS from Austria NOMAX


----------



## plakat

@Nomax working hard to bring the joy to EU (+Switzerland


----------



## Yoga

fririce0003 said:


> Sorry I miss interpreted you're initial post, I read it as more saying that the "high end" market was saturated with overly cashed up people just throwing their money around chasing status more than sound. Which is far from the truth.
> Glad to have that cleared up


 

 upLate - the above applies to myself also :¬)


----------



## JustinS

Congratulations Nomax!! 

Hope you enjoy them


----------



## up late

yoga said:


> upLate - the above applies to myself also :¬)




no worries to you too


----------



## JustinS

plakat said:


> No need to apologize for (or even feel the need to explain) your decision: If the HD800 fits your taste better, there's nothing wrong with that. To the contrary: it saves you quite a bit of money... While the HD800 is not my thing, I could also live happily with the K812 which fits my taste much better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Music Alchemist

Speaking of speakers, has anyone directly compared the Abyss to speakers?
  
 I want to get the Focal Alpha 50 near field active monitor speakers ($598 for a pair) and am curious about how they compare to high-end headphones, particularly the Abyss and HD 800.


----------



## FiftyKilo

My Abyss and Cavalli LAu setUp played in direct neighberhout to my 70 K € full aktiv 4 Way Honspeaker System from Martion Berlin/Germany.

Its there top Modell named "Orgon" which was installed and tuned to my listening Room from Mr. Basil Martion. 

He did need two full days, to archive the best Sound and now the System did sound havently. 

What did this mean for my Abyss ? and specialy, what does this mean for my music taste of playing very powerfull Theatre Pipe Organ Music. 

The heavy pure Sinus Wave of a large Pipe ( 32 or 16 feet ) is a big challenge for all kind of loutspeakers and specialy for a headphone. 

The Orgon LSP System produce the deepest tone with a Corner Bass Speaker Cabinet , you feel all bass notes physical in your body and in the room. 

And now comes the amazing Abyss and brings me to a similar emotion when I did listen to TPO Music in my Bed. 

I have the feeling, that the bass power of the diaphragma pulse heavy pressure in my ears. The physical shaking of my head will transfer to my pillow and from this to the matress of my bed. 

The Abyss is for me a compact Hornspeakersystem to wear on the head ! 

The large Soundstage in combination with the dark, dry and powerfull Bass gives me the feeling of sitting in a 5000 Seat Theatre ! 

Absolute no " in Head localisation problem" the music did play far away from me in the front. 

The Abyss comes a good large speakersystem very near


----------



## metalboss

Like the imＮ￿impression above ... i'm happy with my Abyss ...


----------



## up late

music alchemist said:


> Speaking of speakers, has anyone directly compared the Abyss to speakers?
> 
> I want to get the Focal Alpha 50 near field active monitor speakers ($598 for a pair) and am curious about how they compare to high-end headphones, particularly the Abyss and HD 800.




hey i remember you!  did you get to hear the abyss?


----------



## Nomax

justins said:


> Congratulations Nomax!!
> 
> Hope you enjoy them




On the Pic you see a new owner of the Abyss,i am a proud owner since last Year

Regards NOMAx


----------



## Music Alchemist

up late said:


> hey i remember you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not yet, but I may at a meet soon.
  
 I actually live just a few miles away from one of the few US Abyss dealers, but going there just to hear it would only frustrate me at not being able to afford it right now.


----------



## Fririce0003

music alchemist said:


> Speaking of speakers, has anyone directly compared the Abyss to speakers?
> 
> I want to get the Focal Alpha 50 near field active monitor speakers ($598 for a pair) and am curious about how they compare to high-end headphones, particularly the Abyss and HD 800.




 I've got my Abyss and speaker rig in the same room. The Abyss was amped off a WA5, 234 when it arrives, the speakers are pre amped through a GS-X MKII, amps are Auralic Merak's. Source Antipodes DS and a Vega DAC. Speakers are Vienna Acoustic The Kiss and I've also integrated a JL F113 sub. Placement isn't ideal but it's the best I could get it in my room.
 As for comparisons, the staging of the Abyss is actually quite close to the speakers. With the Abyss you get more width and depth, but not as much height to the sound. Imaging is actually more centralised with the speakers which I found surprising. In terms of technical prowess the Abyss have the upper hand in speed, dynamics and detail. And as a plus they still retain their musicality.
 The speakers win in terms of full body impact and immersion into the sound. They also have a warmer overall tone, though now I mainly only use the speakers for movies, TV and when I'm moving about and can't use headphones. Well that and also when I have others over to listen to music or watch movies.
 Comparing the HD800 to speakers does make you aware that while the soundstage is large on the HD's there is an unnatural quality to it. It's hard to describe but the proportions, width, depth, height, seem off especially combined with how they image. The speakers have the upper hand in impact and bass extension and weight. Speed is about the same. I'd say the only area where the HD800 definitely wins out is in terms of detail retrieval. For my tastes the abyss and speakers are more musical and closer to the tonality I'm after. 
 Hope that helps


----------



## Music Alchemist

fririce0003 said:


> I've got my Abyss and speaker rig in the same room. The Abyss was amped off a WA5, 234 when it arrives, the speakers are pre amped through a GS-X MKII, amps are Auralic Merak's. Source Antipodes DS and a Vega DAC. Speakers are Vienna Acoustic The Kiss and I've also integrated a JL F113 sub. Placement isn't ideal but it's the best I could get it in my room.
> As for comparisons, the staging of the Abyss is actually quite close to the speakers. With the Abyss you get more width and depth, but not as much height to the sound. Imaging is actually more centralised with the speakers which I found surprising. In terms of technical prowess the Abyss have the upper hand in speed, dynamics and detail. And as a plus they still retain their musicality.
> The speakers win in terms of full body impact and immersion into the sound. They also have a warmer overall tone, though now I mainly only use the speakers for movies, TV and when I'm moving about and can't use headphones. Well that and also when I have others over to listen to music or watch movies.
> Comparing the HD800 to speakers does make you aware that while the soundstage is large on the HD's there is an unnatural quality to it. It's hard to describe but the proportions, width, depth, height, seem off especially combined with how they image. The speakers have the upper hand in impact and bass extension and weight. Speed is about the same. I'd say the only area where the HD800 definitely wins out is in terms of detail retrieval. For my tastes the abyss and speakers are more musical and closer to the tonality I'm after.
> Hope that helps


 
  
 Thanks so much! I still feel so torn about what to do and what to get and when to get it. I want all this stuff!
  
 I just checked your profile. You're 21 and already own all that? I'm 27 and jealous. =D


----------



## up late

music alchemist said:


> Not yet, but I may at a meet soon.
> 
> I actually live just a few miles away from one of the few US Abyss dealers, but going there just to hear it would only frustrate me at not being able to afford it right now.




you'd rather read glowing impressions from abyss owners here. i get that.


----------



## Music Alchemist

up late said:


> you'd rather read glowing impressions from abyss owners here. i get that.


 
  
 Stop harassing me, dude. I don't have to explain myself to you.


----------



## up late

easy tiger - no one's harassing you


----------



## Music Alchemist

up late said:


> easy tiger - no one's harassing you


 
  
 Your statements and attitude come off as insulting and provocative to me. If that was not your intent, I couldn't tell.


----------



## up late

that's what the emoticon is for bro


----------



## Music Alchemist

up late said:


> that's what the emoticon is for bro


 
  
 Okay then. As long as you're not trying to be mean to me. hehe


----------



## mulder01

justins said:


> Just to update my experiences over the last 2 days. Yesterday was the day that I dropped off my speakers, and drove home with a pair of Abyss and HD800 headphones. It was a 3 hour drive home, and I was looking forward to plugging the Abyss into my Mcintosh MHA100.
> 
> I walked through the door, and spent about 30 minutes unpacking everything, and adjusting the headband to suit. Then the moment came, plugging them in, and turning up the volume! The initial reaction was as favourable as I got during the demo, a larger scale compared to my PS1000/HD800. I sat and listened for another 3 songs, but on the last song, it didn't sound as detailed as I remebered. After unplugging the Abyss, and plugging in the HD800s, I played that same song, WOW! Suddenly all the detail and air and soundstage was back, everything was so much more musical. I compared the 2 headphones over the next 20 minutes, but I had already formed my opinion, and that is what this is, my opinion, yours may vary.
> 
> Unbelievably within 45 minutes of unpacking them, I had closed the lid on the Abyss, quite literally, they were put by the front door for returning in the morning. I spent the rest of the evening listening with the HD800, appreciating just how good they are. Now I totally understand that this could just be a mismatch of the Mcintosh/Abyss pairing, but I couldn't return them and get my speakers back quick enough. What a bargain the HD800s are, and the Abyss, well, let's just say, good riddance!


 
  
 Like you say, it really comes down to personal preference with the sound signatures.  I think we are on opposite ends of the scale where I love the Abyss's sound and parted with the $6k to have it, but wouldn't buy a HD800 even if it was $500.  And like Fririce was saying, I am one of those people that had to save for a year to get them.  Besides the car and house, these are the most expensive things I've bought in my life.
  
 I know it's probably not going to make much of a difference for you personally, but neither of the amps you mentioned are really popular choices for powering the Abyss so maybe that's partly to blame.  HiFiman sell an adapter for a hundred bucks that will accept the speaker outputs from your amp and give you a balanced headphone out to power your Abyss from your speaker amp - which is quite a good option for a lot of people especially if you already own a nice speaker amp that suits your tastes.  Would be nice to try it before you gave it back just to be sure that they're definitely not for you even when powered properly.  Would save you the thousand odd pounds (or more) on a dedicated amp too.  
  
 Just a thought.
  
 On the other hand if your dream headphone is the HD800 then that's awesome for your wallet.  But it seems a shame to send them back so quickly without giving them a proper chance.  A lot of people would argue you should have allowed at least a couple of hours or more burn in time too.


----------



## mulder01

And Music Alchemist, I guess you never know - you may very well find out that if you can get to this meet, that you may be in the same boat as JustinS - you may be more of a hd800 man than an abyss man too, which is a much more achievable purchase.  No point lusting after something that costs 4 times as much and doesn't sound as good (to you)...  I wish I was in that boat too actually.  Ah well.


----------



## metalboss

mulder01 said:


> Like you say, it really comes down to personal preference with the sound signatures.  I think we are on opposite ends of the scale where I love the Abyss's sound and parted with the $6k to have it, but wouldn't buy a HD800 even if it was $500.  And like Fririce was saying, I am one of those people that had to save for a year to get them.  Besides the car and house, these are the most expensive things I've bought in my life.
> 
> I know it's probably not going to make much of a difference for you personally, but neither of the amps you mentioned are really popular choices for powering the Abyss so maybe that's partly to blame.  HiFiman sell an adapter for a hundred bucks that will accept the speaker outputs from your amp and give you a balanced headphone out to power your Abyss from your speaker amp - which is quite a good option for a lot of people especially if you already own a nice speaker amp that suits your tastes.  Would be nice to try it before you gave it back just to be sure that they're definitely not for you even when powered properly.  Would save you the thousand odd pounds (or more) on a dedicated amp too.
> 
> ...


 
 Have tried Senn HD800, Stax 009 etc. nevertheless quality of sound that I love most only Abyss can give me...


----------



## pearljam50000

Radiohead must sound amazing on the Abyss, its so sad I can't audition it in my country.


----------



## up late

mulder01 said:


> And Music Alchemist, I guess you never know - you may very well find out that if you can get to this meet, that you may be in the same boat as JustinS - you may be more of a hd800 man than an abyss man too, which is a much more achievable purchase.  No point lusting after something that costs 4 times as much and doesn't sound as good (to you)...  I wish I was in that boat too actually.  Ah well.




good advice. i can understand folks getting fixated with an object - the abyss in this case, but it's possible that it mightn't live up to their expectations. also, no matter how many reviews and impressions you read, they never quite prepare you for the experience of actually auditioning a can ime. apart from the sound, other factors like how it fits, and how comfortable or uncomfortable it feels to wear can only be experienced first hand. that can be a deal breaker in itself. it's always worthwhile auditioning a can that you're obsessing about if you're able to - especially if it's an expensive piece of high-end kit like the abyss imo.


----------



## bfreedma

up late said:


> good advice. i can understand folks getting fixated with an object - the abyss in this case, but it's possible that it mightn't live up to their expectations. also, no matter how many reviews and impressions you read, they never quite prepare you for the experience of actually auditioning a can ime. apart from the sound, other factors like how it fits, and how comfortable or uncomfortable it feels to wear can only be experienced first hand. that can be a deal breaker in itself. it's always worthwhile auditioning a can that you're obsessing about if you're able to - especially if it's an expensive piece of high-end kit like the abyss imo.


 
 So true, which makes it very frustrating when members who haven't heard the Abyss continue to recommend it.
  
 Thought that was against Head-FI rules....


----------



## Yoga

That's why I have a lot of gear being delivered over the next few days (all with 30 day returns) - there is no better way than to compare yourself.
  
 Although I might add, the reviews I've read from trusted sources have proven very accurate upon hearing myself. That helps if you'd heard/owned related equipment used in comparisons.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulder01 said:


> Like you say, it really comes down to personal preference with the sound signatures.  I think we are on opposite ends of the scale where I love the Abyss's sound and parted with the $6k to have it, but wouldn't buy a HD800 even if it was $500.  And like Fririce was saying, I am one of those people that had to save for a year to get them.  Besides the car and house, these are the most expensive things I've bought in my life.
> 
> I know it's probably not going to make much of a difference for you personally, but neither of the amps you mentioned are really popular choices for powering the Abyss so maybe that's partly to blame.  HiFiman sell an adapter for a hundred bucks that will accept the speaker outputs from your amp and give you a balanced headphone out to power your Abyss from your speaker amp - which is quite a good option for a lot of people especially if you already own a nice speaker amp that suits your tastes.  Would be nice to try it before you gave it back just to be sure that they're definitely not for you even when powered properly.  Would save you the thousand odd pounds (or more) on a dedicated amp too.
> 
> ...


 


mulder01 said:


> And Music Alchemist, I guess you never know - you may very well find out that if you can get to this meet, that you may be in the same boat as JustinS - you may be more of a hd800 man than an abyss man too, which is a much more achievable purchase.  No point lusting after something that costs 4 times as much and doesn't sound as good (to you)...  I wish I was in that boat too actually.  Ah well.


 


up late said:


> good advice. i can understand folks getting fixated with an object - the abyss in this case, but it's possible that it mightn't live up to their expectations. also, no matter how many reviews and impressions you read, they never quite prepare you for the experience of actually auditioning a can ime. apart from the sound, other factors like how it fits, and how comfortable or uncomfortable it feels to wear can only be experienced first hand. that can be a deal breaker in itself. it's always worthwhile auditioning a can that you're obsessing about if you're able to - especially if it's an expensive piece of high-end kit like the abyss imo.


 
  
 I've actually been sorely disappointed by many headphone purchases that sounded nothing like the reviews claimed. However, most of them were studio monitor headphones that sounded tinny and artificial to me, so if anything, I wold be more likely to dislike the HD 800 due to thinking it sounds too much like that, as opposed to the Abyss, which by all accounts has stronger bass and a fuller tonality.
  
 At the moment, I'm trying to verify whether the Woo WEE can safely be used with the Schiit Ragnarok in order to drive electrostatic headphones. If so, and if I get "back to work" to skyrocket my budget, I would rather easily be able to afford that amp and converter and both the SR-009 _and_ Abyss (and a proper TOTL electrostatic amp eventually)...but it depends on what I do. I've been lazy the past few years, after I stopped making a lot of money. At any rate, an extended in-home audition (with the safety of return policies) is highly preferable to brief auditions in a noisy room. I get the feeling that I would prefer each of them with various genres.


----------



## JustinS

mulder01 said:


> Like you say, it really comes down to personal preference with the sound signatures.  I think we are on opposite ends of the scale where I love the Abyss's sound and parted with the $6k to have it, but wouldn't buy a HD800 even if it was $500.  And like Fririce was saying, I am one of those people that had to save for a year to get them.  Besides the car and house, these are the most expensive things I've bought in my life.
> 
> I know it's probably not going to make much of a difference for you personally, but neither of the amps you mentioned are really popular choices for powering the Abyss so maybe that's partly to blame.  HiFiman sell an adapter for a hundred bucks that will accept the speaker outputs from your amp and give you a balanced headphone out to power your Abyss from your speaker amp - which is quite a good option for a lot of people especially if you already own a nice speaker amp that suits your tastes.  Would be nice to try it before you gave it back just to be sure that they're definitely not for you even when powered properly.  Would save you the thousand odd pounds (or more) on a dedicated amp too.
> 
> ...




Hello Mulder, thanks for the response, much appreciated. I really like the sound of what you suggest, as I was really disappointed with the results, what with the Oppo sounding so good. I've been on the HiFiman site, but can't find what you suggest, can you tell me what they are called (a reference number) would be good if poss. On the basis I haven't used my speakers for a couple of months, and with the profit I can make, I would like to pursue things a little further. I take on board your comment that I should have given them longer, truth is, I was worried that I would mark them and not have the option to return.

Thanks for your input!


----------



## up late

bfreedma said:


> So true, which makes it very frustrating when members who haven't heard the Abyss continue to recommend it.
> 
> Thought that was against Head-FI rules....




it adds zero value to a thread. not sure why folks do it. increases the post count i guess.


----------



## Yoga

1266 should be with me tomorrow - exciting stuff. Roll on Ragnarok!


----------



## mulder01

Hi Justin, sorry it's called a HiFiMan HE Adapter.  Originally made for powering the HE-6 (another power hungry mofo) from speaker amps. I think the Abyss is just as power hungry.
http://hifiman.com/Products/?pid=104
 I haven't used it myself, but here is a couple of photos Cortazar posted earlier in the thread of him using it with his speaker amps.  He would be able to let you know his thoughts on it.
  


  
 I'll link you to a post from Taft81 who is using his speaker amp with his Abyss too, but no hifiman adapter.  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/666765/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-appreciation-impressions-thread/1530#post_10890586
 I'm not 100% sure if this is a great idea because the hifiman adapter has some resistors or something in it to help protect the amp / speakers (but maybe his adapter cable has them built in too).  Something to do with the speaker amp normally powering a load around 8 ohms and the abyss is 46 ohms.  I'm not sure exactly how it works but I'm sure you could find a better explanation around head fi somewhere if you're interested.


----------



## gjc11028

mulder01 said:


> Hi Justin, sorry it's called a HiFiMan HE Adapter.  Originally made for powering the HE-6 (another power hungry mofo) from speaker amps. I think the Abyss is just as power hungry.
> http://hifiman.com/Products/?pid=104
> I haven't used it myself, but here is a couple of photos Cortazar posted earlier in the thread of him using it with his speaker amps.  He would be able to let you know his thoughts on it.
> 
> ...


 

 lots of discussion in:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/649107/speaker-amps-for-headphones


----------



## JustinS

Congratulations Yoga, hope you enjoy them. Very exciting.

Thanks for all your help Mulder, and thanks gjc too.

On to it now.


----------



## Yoga

justins said:


> Congratulations Yoga, hope you enjoy them. Very exciting.
> 
> Thanks for all your help Mulder, and thanks gjc too.
> 
> On to it now.


 

 Thank you Justin, so do I :¬)
  
 Delivery has been shifted to tomorrow however, which is a good test for my impatience :¬)


----------



## JustinS

yoga said:


> Thank you Justin, so do I :¬)
> 
> Delivery has been shifted to tomorrow however, which is a good test for my impatience :¬)




I know what you mean, sometimes 24 hours seems like the end of world!! 

Sure they'll be worth the wait. Let us know what you think.


----------



## Yoga

1266 owners (or auditioners - that should be a word): does the 'grungy treble' that Tyll mentions in this review...
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t23lyqf0p28
  
 ... persist when driven through a top balanced amp, like the L.Au or Rag?
  
 He's using a Conductor it seems, which is not optimal.


----------



## bmichels

does someone has news about the availability of* the "light" version (light on the wallet: $1000 less*): same headphone, but without leather case and with a single 4pins-XLR ?


----------



## Fririce0003

yoga said:


> 1266 owners (or auditioners - that should be a word): does the 'grungy treble' that Tyll mentions in this review...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t23lyqf0p28
> 
> ...




 No "grungy" treble on the WA5 or 234, unless you have some shocking tubes in. GS-X is also pretty smooth in the treble, but it does bring out any harshness in the recording due to it being a speedy, detailed amp with a smaller soundstage. Been a while since I heard the LAu so can't quite remember if the treble was harsh.


----------



## negura

It's not only the amplifier that matters here, but the DAC too. Compared to more refined DACs yes the Conductor has grainier treble.


----------



## Yoga

Thanks fellas, I thought as much. Ragnarok should arrive later today, and although it'll be with a Hugo, it'll certainly outclass the Conductor.
  
 It's down to two DACs, Yggdrasil or TotalDAC. Patience, and all that.
  
 And one other thing: Holy **** these things are amazing. If the 3F was a normal man, the 1266 is Thor. 

 It's been said before, it's speaker sound. Like being in the room with music.


----------



## metalboss

Have tried 1266 with these: Violectric V281, AURALiC TAURUS MKII, Bryston BHA-1, AK240 etc. ... Treble's never an issue... real speaker like presentation... Awestriken


----------



## FiftyKilo

yoga said:


> 1266 owners (or auditioners - that should be a word): does the 'grungy treble' that Tyll mentions in this review...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t23lyqf0p28
> 
> ...


 

 Hi,
 using the Cavalli LAu with my Abyss and its smooth in the treble and has a big large soundstage.


----------



## bmichels

metalboss said:


> Have tried 1266 with these: Violectric V281, AURALiC TAURUS MKII, Bryston BHA-1, AK240 etc. ... Treble's never an issue... real speaker like presentation... Awestriken


 
  
 AK240 can drive thge ABYSS well enough ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  No degradation compared to the much more powerfull "desktop" amps ?


----------



## metalboss

I use the stock cables to the 4-pin XLR adapter and from there to a TRRS adapter in order to use the Abyss with my AK240. I think the cable adapters alone weighed more than the player! But arranging everything just-so was possible, and it was also possible to get adequate sound out of the 1266. And yes, the sound was “okay”... not recommended tho... it has so much potentials left undone...


----------



## Music Alchemist

bmichels said:


> does someone has news about the availability of* the "light" version (light on the wallet: $1000 less*): same headphone, but without leather case and with a single 4pins-XLR ?


 
  
Here is the link to my announcement of the AB-1266 Lite.
  
 Any Abyss dealer should stock it.
  
 Here are two US dealers with online shops:
 http://www.wooaudio.com/headphones/abyss/abyss-AB-1266.html (comes with bonus headphone stand)
 http://www.thecableco.com/Product/AB-1266-Lite


----------



## bmichels

mulder01 said:


> ...  I don't actually like the 2x 3 pin XLR cable because I don't have that output on my amp so I have to use the Y adapter which is pretty bulky so the 4 pin XLR would suit me better.


 
  
 same for me.  All my amps have 4 pins XLR.


----------



## Yoga

1266 owners, a quick question. With a bassy track (if you have Tidal, try *Infected Mushroom - Noon*), if you take the headphones off while playing reasonably loud, and listen to the cans form the outside (bear with me, I know that sounds ridiculous), does the diaphragm have a textured/vibratory/loose sound to it? 
  
 I ask because this set does, the the further away the cans are from my ears, the more that starts to bleed to the inside. When seated properly it's fine.
  
 Just want to check this isn't a duff set.


----------



## mulder01

Yeah the lite version is definitely the go (provided you don't carry around a man bag - I could think of better things to spend a thousand bucks on).  I think we're yet to see unboxing photos of the Lite version though, so clearly a lot of people don't share my view...


----------



## mulder01

yoga said:


> 1266 owners, a quick question. With a bassy track (if you have Tidal, try *Infected Mushroom - Noon*), if you take the headphones off while playing reasonably loud, and listen to the cans form the outside (bear with me, I know that sounds ridiculous), does the diaphragm have a textured/vibratory/loose sound to it?
> 
> I ask because this set does, the the further away the cans are from my ears, the more that starts to bleed to the inside. When seated properly it's fine.
> 
> Just want to check this isn't a duff set.


 
 Yeah plakat mentioned it back on page 119, Joe replied and said it was normal.  I didn't even notice it until I made a point of checking, and yeah you're right, without anything near the drivers it sounds bad, but Joe assures us it doesn't do any damage to them.


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> Yeah plakat mentioned it back on page 119, Joe replied and said it was normal.  I didn't even notice it until I made a point of checking, and yeah you're right, without anything near the drivers it sounds bad, but Joe assures us it doesn't do any damage to them.


 
  
 Great, thanks!
  
 Edit: what is your setup - dac/amp?


----------



## JustinS

Hope you are having fun.Where are you located in the UK Yoga?


----------



## Yoga

justins said:


> Hope you are having fun.Where are you located in the UK Yoga?


 
  
 I am indeed :¬)
  
 Hearing music in an entirely novel way through headphones.
  
 Based in Norfolk!


----------



## Music Alchemist

@Yoga
  
 I had mistakenly assumed from your previous posts that you were merely borrowing the Abyss, etc., but it looks like you purchased most of it. Care to compare to other gear you've used? I always love to see different thoughts about audio gear, especially when they are in disagreement for whatever reason. I guess you were planning on posting your impressions anyway.


----------



## Yoga

music alchemist said:


> @Yoga
> 
> I had mistakenly assumed from your previous posts that you were merely borrowing the Abyss, etc., but it looks like you purchased most of it. Care to compare to other gear you've used? I always love to see different thoughts about audio gear, especially when they are in disagreement for whatever reason. I guess you were planning on posting your impressions anyway.


 
  
 It's all returnable :¬)
  
 My experience with different models is limited, I tend to research and plump for something. Back in the early days I preferred the HD650 over the 600, which naturally progressed to the LCD2, 3F and then Abyss. he only other amp I've used is the Conductor, and the HA-160D (I think it was) before that.
  
 The Rag (demo loan) is impressing me, but I'm limited by the DAC at the moment. I'm tempted by the L.Au, although there doesn't seem to be anyone who's directly compared the two.
  
 The HE1000's are still an option, the gear I have is returnable. Still making the decision, but 60/40 keeping it at the moment :¬)


----------



## Music Alchemist

yoga said:


> It's all returnable :¬)
> 
> My experience with different models is limited, I tend to research and plump for something. Back in the early days I preferred the HD650 over the 600, which naturally progressed to the LCD2, 3F and then Abyss. Seems like a natural progression. The only other amp I've used is the Conductor, and the HA-160D (I think it was) before that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The person I trust the most about audio equipment didn't like the Liquid Gold much at all compared to the Ragnarok.
  
 So no thoughts so far about how the Abyss compares to the LCD-3F, HD 650, etc.? (Especially the mids.)


----------



## Yoga

music alchemist said:


> The person I trust the most about audio equipment didn't like the Liquid Gold much at all compared to the Ragnarok.
> 
> So no thoughts so far about how the Abyss compares to the LCD-3F, HD 650, etc.? (Especially the mids.)


 
  
 What were their findings? Any posts you can link? Very interested in that.
  
 I'm a 'mids' fan, and I was expecting to be disappointed by the Abyss, as I had just gotten used to the 3F (which blew my mind coming from the 2.2) which retains the silky coherence.
  
 I wasn't. They're delicious. The 1266, to me, is a supercharged 3F. Better in every way. Next level.


----------



## dBel84

The simplest way to deal with the cable is to reterminate it - I really detest the 2x 3-pin idea and removed them almost immediately. 
  
 I am perhaps not the most unbiased person when it comes to Cavalli amps but I have yet to hear an amp that performs as well as the LAu with the Abyss, and I have heard a fair number of them. It just gets out of the way but at the same time is authorative and delivers very clean power. It resolves detail without adding any additional edginess. I have seen people make all sorts of comments about it in demo conditions but very few people who own the amp feel the need to return to the forums to comment. I have communicated with several owners and it seems there is a universal sense of contentment.  I have not heard the rag with the abyss, in fact I had only heard the prototypes which were malfunctioning at the time and thus have no sense of what the production version sounds like. Purrin likes his a lot, a good friend returned his , just testament to the fact that there is no single device to appeal to us all. The same can be said of the AB1266, some people bask in it's sonic splendour while others shrug their shoulders and can't figure out what the fuss is all about. I sometimes wonder if I really need them , until I fire them up and sit back to enjoy the greatest luxury of all - enjoying music.  
  
 ..dB


----------



## Kiats

fiftykilo said:


> Hi,
> using the Cavalli LAu with my Abyss and its smooth in the treble and has a big large soundstage.




Same experience here. Same for the Bryston BHA-1.


----------



## Music Alchemist

yoga said:


> What were their findings? Any posts you can link? Very interested in that.
> 
> I'm a 'mids' fan, and I was expecting to be disappointed by the Abyss, as I had just gotten used to the 3F (which blew my mind coming from the 2.2) which retains the silky coherence.
> 
> I wasn't. They're delicious. The 1266, to me, is a supercharged 3F. Better in every way. Next level.


 
  
 Awesome. I'll PM you with details, since it was a private conversation.


----------



## mulder01

yoga said:


> Great, thanks!
> 
> Edit: what is your setup - dac/amp?


 
 I am powering mine off a Violectric V281.  Which is the maximum the budget would permit... My source is just an ipod classic running through an Algorhythm Solo that I still had from my old portable setup.  I might look at finishing off my system by upgrading to a desktop DAC later in the year, cash flow depending.  However if I have to spend thousands to get a few percent improvement, I'll probably not bother.  It sounds pretty amazing to me as it is...


----------



## JustinS

yoga said:


> I am indeed :¬)
> 
> Hearing music in an entirely novel way through headphones.
> 
> Based in Norfolk!




Interesting, I'm in Essex, pop in if your over this way!


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> I am powering mine off a Violectric V281.  Which is the maximum the budget would permit... My source is just an ipod classic running through an Algorhythm Solo that I still had from my old portable setup.  I might look at finishing off my system by upgrading to a desktop DAC later in the year, cash flow depending.  However if I have to spend thousands to get a few percent improvement, I'll probably not bother.  It sounds pretty amazing to me as it is...


 
  
 A fantastic amp nonetheless. Thanks.
  


justins said:


> Interesting, I'm in Essex, pop in if your over this way!


 
  
 Relative neighbours then! The same applies if you venture into Norwich :¬)


----------



## Joe Skubinski

FYI, there's a cool audio show going on in Hamburg Germany this weekend with lots of good stuff...

http://www.hifi-studio-bramfeld.de/hifitage/hifitage2015/plakat2015v02.pdf


----------



## metalboss

joe skubinski said:


> FYI, there's a cool audio show going on in Hamburg Germany this weekend with lots of good stuff...
> 
> http://www.hifi-studio-bramfeld.de/hifitage/hifitage2015/plakat2015v02.pdf


 
 Thanks


----------



## gjc11028

Given your amp and headphones, a good source would be more than a few percent improvement. Good components downstream can never recover what is lost upstream.


----------



## Yoga

1266 owners - could you test something? I'm getting what I think is a rattle on my right channel/side. 
  
 I've just noticed it, and the perfect track to test is:
  
 Artist: Lorde
 Album: Pure Heroine
 Track: Royals
  
 There is a certain low bass beat/freq at exactly *0:41*. I hear a clear rattle on the right ear, sounds like it's coming from lower down.
  
 I'm at 2 o'clock on the Abyss, highest gain. Enjoyably loud, but not excessive by any means.
  
 The track is on Tidal.
  
 Could you test and post your findings?
  
 Not noticed it until hearing this specific song.
  
 Update: It's inconsistent, and I'm also hearing reverberations in other parts of the song at higher volumes which weren't there before. Most certainly faulty. I might add, while loud, it's nothing out of the ordinary.


----------



## Revogamer

Have you tried the same track from a different source - not tidal?


----------



## Yoga

revogamer said:


> Have you tried the same track from a different source - not tidal?


 

 It's most definitely the headphones, I've tested it many times now, and the problem is sporadic by nature, dependent on volume. I tested the same track with LCD-3Fs - nothing of the sort.


----------



## Revogamer

yoga said:


> It's most definitely the headphones, I've tested it many times now, and the problem is sporadic by nature, dependent on volume. I tested the same track with LCD-3Fs - nothing of the sort.


 
 Very strange,
  
 Is it not to do with the seal of the cups on your head?

 As mentioned previously in this thread, if there is not a very light seal or something close to the driver it can cause a flapping noise.
  
 But if it is still happening it may be best to ask JPS labs to see if it is OK?


----------



## Yoga

revogamer said:


> Very strange,
> 
> Is it not to do with the seal of the cups on your head?
> 
> ...


 

 I tested different seal pressures / distances. Pretty sure its a defective unit. Thanks though!


----------



## mulder01

yoga said:


> 1266 owners - could you test something? I'm getting what I think is a rattle on my right channel/side.
> 
> I've just noticed it, and the perfect track to test is:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Funny you should mention that - I got a bit of bass rattle in my right ear listening to this CD yesterday but I didn't think much of it.  
  
 I'll just give it a test for you...
  
 I don't get anything in Royals but I do get it from about 0:44 on A World Alone.  But I just tried experimenting a bit and it's there regardless of the volume.  Then I unplugged the cables at the headphones and swapped the L&R channels over and it switched sides so I'm assuming it's on the recording.  I guess you could try the same thing - if you swap your cables at the driver and the problem is still there, then you might have a driver problem, if the issue swaps sides then it's in the source or amp somewhere.


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> Funny you should mention that - I got a bit of bass rattle in my right ear listening to this CD yesterday but I didn't think much of it.
> 
> I'll just give it a test for you...
> 
> I don't get anything in Royals but I do get it from about 0:44 on A World Alone.  But I just tried experimenting a bit and it's there regardless of the volume.  Then I unplugged the cables at the headphones and swapped the L&R channels over and it switched sides so I'm assuming it's on the recording.  I guess you could try the same thing - if you swap your cables at the driver and the problem is still there, then you might have a driver problem, if the issue swaps sides then it's in the source or amp somewhere.


 

 Neat idea. I did mention earlier - it's not present at lower volumes, and at one point the reverb kept going and continued through a whole section of the song, distorting the sound quite profoundly. It's certainly not in the recording - I tested with LCD-3Fs and the recording is clear. A shame!


----------



## mulder01

gjc11028 said:


> Given your amp and headphones, a good source would be more than a few percent improvement. Good components downstream can never recover what is lost upstream.


 
  
 Yeah, fingers crossed - it would be nice to think it would make a big difference, but I read that the differences between DACs are often way overstated... Only one way to find out though!  Unfortunately for me, auditioning head fi gear means getting on a plane, so it'll have to wait for now.
  
 Quote:


yoga said:


> Neat idea. I did mention earlier - it's not present at lower volumes, and at one point the reverb kept going and continued through a whole section of the song, distorting the sound quite profoundly. It's certainly not in the recording - I tested with LCD-3Fs and the recording is clear. A shame!


 
  
 Ah yeah ok... Sounds bad, but I suppose it could still be a bad connection or something.  I'd just quickly try swapping the cables over before sending it back.  Nothing worse than returning something then getting it back a fortnight later and be told there's nothing wrong with it...


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> Ah yeah ok... Sounds bad, but I suppose it could still be a bad connection or something.  I'd just quickly try swapping the cables over before sending it back.  Nothing worse than returning something then getting it back a fortnight later and be told there's nothing wrong with it...


 

 I did check the connections - both were in tight and did not move. Perhaps you're right though, a final check can't hurt (bar the fact they're all packed up and ready for postage!).


----------



## Yoga

These cans are so good it's insane.
  
 Confirmed problem though, it's even worse now. In the build up of track Ribs, on Lorde - Pure Heroine, they rattle consistently throughout.
  
 I have to say, the Burson Conductor still drives these very well indeed.


----------



## mikel

No problems with the track you asked us to check.
  
 Amazing deep bass, I have the HD-Tracks version of the Album..... just wow!!!
  
 Mike


----------



## Yoga

mikel said:


> No problems with the track you asked us to check.
> 
> Amazing deep bass, I have the HD-Tracks version of the Album..... just wow!!!
> 
> Mike


 

 Thanks! They're being sent back for repairs :¬)
  
 Gah, the UK HD Tracks doesn't have that album (and many others). Would love to hear it!
  
 Mastered very well, a great album to test gear with.


----------



## icebear

yoga said:


> .... I'm at 2 o'clock on the Abyss, highest gain.* Enjoyably loud, but not excessive by any means.*
> 
> ... Update: It's inconsistent, and I'm also hearing reverberations in other parts of the song *at higher volumes* which weren't there before. Most certainly faulty. I might add, while loud, it's nothing out of the ordinary.


 
  Hi there,
 you might actually listen a lot louder than you think you are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 What usually makes you turn the volume back down a little are distortions. When a headphone doesn't produce any audible distortion before it hits the mechanical limits of the system, you don't get any "early warning" signs. I once crashed a Lambda Pro with deep bass from an acoustic drum, soft covered with some leather (Marie Boine CD from the 80s?). I turned up the volume and everything was just fine, enjoyably loud and not excessive by any means, at least I thought too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... and suddenly there was strong distortion in the bass region. I got replacement drivers for free at the time but for sure that was already way too loud.


----------



## negura

icebear said:


>


 
  
 If a headphone is prone to packing up at (very) loud *listening* levels, then this is a must do test every single time in my opinion. And only then accept delivery of the product.


----------



## Yoga

icebear said:


> Hi there,
> you might actually listen a lot louder than you think you are
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Nice to see you got them replaced :¬)
  
 It wasn't equipment breaking loud. Especially for a $6500 (US) headphone (£4250), and nothing above what I'd used on previous headphones. Probably a one off.
  
 It was an ex-demo set I may add; there was potential for previous mis-use.
  
 Edit: negura makes a fine point.


----------



## JustinS

yoga said:


> Nice to see you got them replaced :¬)
> 
> It wasn't equipment breaking loud. Especially for a $6500 (US) headphone (£4250), and nothing above what I'd used on previous headphones. Probably a one off.
> 
> ...




Did you get them from Audio Affair Yoga?


----------



## Yoga

justins said:


> Did you get them from Audio Affair Yoga?


 

 I did indeed Justin. They've been nothing but helpful regarding their return. Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.


----------



## mulder01

Sounds like a bit of a bummer Yoga - I suppose, like you said, it's possible the demo pair had been mistreated.  But the million dollar question is, were you smitten enough to just have your pair sent away for repair, or are you just going to send them back under the store's return policy?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

We have yet to have a 'defective' driver, problems such as this have always been external, typically system related. We've had to replace a few drivers due to someone opening them up and finding they have a strong affinity for screwdrivers. 

Looking forward to getting this pair back for inspection.


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> Sounds like a bit of a bummer Yoga - I suppose, like you said, it's possible the demo pair had been mistreated.  But the million dollar question is, were you smitten enough to just have your pair sent away for repair, or are you just going to send them back under the store's return policy?


 
  
 While my listening experience is not eclectic by any means, they have offered a level of sound I had not thought possible via headphone. Smitten is an understatement.
  
 Yes, I'll be getting another pair :¬)
  


joe skubinski said:


> We have yet to have a 'defective' driver, problems such as this have always been external, typically system related. We've had to replace a few drivers due to someone opening them up and finding they have a strong affinity for screwdrivers.
> 
> Looking forward to getting this pair back for inspection.


 
  
 I may add, Joe, and others I've been in contact regarding Abyss dealerships etc, have all been incredibly helpful. 
  
 UK buyers - Jack at the Music Room has been a delight to work with. Highest recommendation.


----------



## Synthax

Dear Collegues,
 Does anybody have a photo of interior side of dampening of the driver? It looks it could be the bulpren foam but what is the thickness? And how does look the details. I'm very curious about this approach.


----------



## plakat

I've not seen any photos of the interior so far. Joe understandably discourages disassembling the headphone... handling such strong magnets is not an easy task, so one might well ruin the driver in the process.


----------



## Synthax

I was just thinking if it is worth to try bulpren as rear damping in my orthos... I have no experience if it is or is not transparent for the sound... Splitting ortho driver is not an easy task, you are right, but I did try at my headphones and succeed... So maybe someone will do it too, someday, at Abyss.
  
 Sorry for off-topic.


----------



## plakat

Part of the problem may be that is a design with magnets only on one side of the diaphragm, i.e. higher risk of doing damage when disassembling them. But I think one could try out damping on the outside, i.e. in front of the black metal foam.


----------



## dBel84

Joe can correct me if I am wrong but I believe that the driver is essentially floating free - no damping materials like most planar headphones were needed due to the "thinness" of the driver membrane and the strength of the magnets. As an orthohead who has modified practically every headphone I own, I have not attempted to open these. Mostly out of fear for destroying the driver ( more than a few stories of screws / instruments being pulled from the work bench through into the headphone ) . The fact that it has no immediate damping material also limits the amount of experimentation as adding anything will impact the soundstage of these headphones which is their strongest attribute. In this respect they are much more like electrostatics in being "airdamped" but this is also not the full story. The mesh that allows the sound to escape from the cup is an aluminum "foam" which does add a little rear chamber damping for the driver. I have toyed with adding "fazors" to the front , they reduce the midrange without impacting the rest of the presentation. It works for some music but not for everything, it is also highly dependent on the brightness of the source and amp.
  
 ..dB


----------



## Synthax

dbel84 said:


> Joe can correct me if I am wrong but I believe that the driver is essentially floating free - no damping materials like most planar headphones were needed due to the "thinness" of the driver membrane and the strength of the magnets. As an orthohead who has modified practically every headphone I own, I have not attempted to open these. Mostly out of fear for destroying the driver ( more than a few stories of screws / instruments being pulled from the work bench through into the headphone ) . The fact that it has no immediate damping material also limits the amount of experimentation as adding anything will impact the soundstage of these headphones which is their strongest attribute. In this respect they are much more like electrostatics in being "airdamped" but this is also not the full story. The mesh that allows the sound to escape from the cup is an aluminum "foam" which does add a little rear chamber damping for the driver. I have toyed with adding "fazors" to the front , they reduce the midrange without impacting the rest of the presentation. It works for some music but not for everything, it is also highly dependent on the brightness of the source and amp.
> 
> ..dB


 
 Correct me if I'm wrong, but the foam looks like bulpren (synthetic foam). Are you sure it is made of aluminium?


----------



## Yoga

synthax said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the foam looks like bulpren (synthetic foam). Are you sure it is made of aluminium?


 

 It's aluminium foam.
  
 The lighting in that photo give a (false) appearance of the foam curving outwards, in reality it sits perfectly flat behind the grills.


----------



## FiftyKilo

I did wrote that in an other thread, the ABYSS did play in my Music Room against a 70K$  4 Way active Hornloudspeaker System and Man I'am thinking to sell all the stuff and only hold the ABYSS.
 OK, its physical not the same, but its so full of power and has a deep, rich bass, that I doesn't miss anything. Its so much pleasure and musicial tastefull. 
 So look for an hour of spare time, go straight to the shop and make a audition. And have FUN !!


----------



## Yoga

bfreedma said:


> why not do what everyone is suggesting and go listen to them for yourself.


 
  
 Indeed. It's less about 'posting in the wrong thread' and more to do with people trying to give you advice. Statistical analysis should be secondary to listening experience. FiftyKilo's post is a perfect representation of that; with his preferences in sound, the Abyss offer an alternative to a $70K setup. Graphs don't offer that insight.
  
 Even if you can't audition the Stax, you'll be equipped with the strengths and weaknesses of the Abyss in relation to your personal preferences, and that can help immeasurably when reading the comparisons with others; you have a foundation to work from and relate to.
  
 It seems illogical to be so passionate about a TOTL headphone while not taking it for a spin, especially when it's very accessible to you. Many others do not have that luxury and still seek out auditions through much more complicated/demanding means.
  
 Just go and listen. They may be perfect for you, they may not, at least you'll know :¬)


----------



## Synthax

mulder01 said:


> Yeah if you touch that foam looking stuff it's rock hard.


 
  
 Thank you!


----------



## Synthax

In my country Abyss is not present in headphone stores


----------



## Yoga

Got the Abyss back with me. Man, these things are insanely good. 
  
 People tend to focus on the bass, but it's so much more than that. The soundstage and detail are amazing, all while maintaining cohesion and musicality.


----------



## pearljam50000

what are you comparing them to?


----------



## Yoga

pearljam50000 said:


> what are you comparing them to?


 

 Everything in my sig at the moment. While I've not heard the Stax, I'm fairly certain they'll be too 'dry' for me. I could be wrong, of course.
  
 And the bass IS mental :¬)


----------



## JustinS

Good for you for getting them back, are they the original pair or a replacement?


----------



## mulder01

pearljam50000 said:


> what are you comparing them to?


 
 one day a hd800 fan will do a comparison for you, one day...


----------



## Fririce0003

Got to listen to the schiit rag with my abyss for a couple hours today, gotta say so far it's my favourite SS amp with the Abyss. Haven't heard the moon 430 though. I'll post a comparison between the GS-X, WA5 and WA234 once I get some time to look over my notes and arrange them into something legible. Might be a little while though, picked up some new toys to play with


----------



## Yoga

fririce0003 said:


> Got to listen to the schiit rag with my abyss for a couple hours today, gotta say so far it's my favourite SS amp with the Abyss. Haven't heard the moon 430 though. I'll post a comparison between the GS-X, WA5 and WA234 once I get some time to look over my notes and arrange them into something legible. Might be a little while though, picked up some new toys to play with


 

 Nice toys indeed :¬)
  
 Have you heard the Abyss with the L.Au?


----------



## Fririce0003

yoga said:


> Nice toys indeed :¬)
> 
> Have you heard the Abyss with the L.Au?




Yeah I've heard the abyss/LAu combo, the sound wasn't for me. It doesn't do anything bad, but it doesn't do anything great, it didn't have any areas you'd stop and think, "that's the best ____ I've heard from an amp so far."
 With the p-700u it's stand out was its lush liquid mids, the GSX is it's detail retrieval and texturing, the WA5 was its excellent mix of detail, speed and musicality. With the LAu nothing really comes to mind. It wasn't a bad listen it was just underwhelming and lacked a sense of direction. These are of course just my findings, you may find otherwise depending on your gear, musical tastes and also what you want from your system.


----------



## Yoga

fririce0003 said:


> Yeah I've heard the abyss/LAu combo, the sound wasn't for me. It doesn't do anything bad, but it doesn't do anything great, it didn't have any areas you'd stop and think, "that's the best ____ I've heard from an amp so far."
> With the p-700u it's stand out was its lush liquid mids, the GSX is it's detail retrieval and texturing, the WA5 was its excellent mix of detail, speed and musicality. With the LAu nothing really comes to mind. It wasn't a bad listen it was just underwhelming and lacked a sense of direction. These are of course just my findings, you may find otherwise depending on your gear, musical tastes and also what you want from your system.


 

 Thanks! Bar being your fave SS amp, did the Rag stand out in any particular domain?


----------



## Fririce0003

yoga said:


> Thanks! Bar being your fave SS amp, did the Rag stand out in any particular domain?




I'd say the standout would be it's speed and detail retrieval, while still retaining musicality. It doesn't pull as much detail as the GSX or WA5, with the right tubes, but it does retain it's musicality. The GSX is a much more analytical listen paired with the Abyss. 
 The sound is on the brighter side of neutral but sibilance isn't an issue and vocal are neither recessed not prominent. The music also had a lot of dynamics, probably due to the head room of power in reserve.
 But keep in mind while I say the sound is musical it is still a SS sound, if you want euphonic decay and warm mids a good tube amp like the WA5 or 234 will win out.


----------



## Yoga

fririce0003 said:


> I'd say the standout would be it's speed and detail retrieval, while still retaining musicality. It doesn't pull as much detail as the GSX or WA5, with the right tubes, but it does retain it's musicality. The GSX is a much more analytical listen paired with the Abyss.
> The sound is on the brighter side of neutral but sibilance isn't an issue and vocal are neither recessed not prominent. The music also had a lot of dynamics, probably due to the head room of power in reserve.
> But keep in mind while I say the sound is musical it is still a SS sound, if you want euphonic decay and warm mids a good tube amp like the WA5 or 234 will win out.


 

 Thanks, very helpful. Woo's are notoriously difficult to source in the UK without paying far over the odds, so the Rag shall remain :¬)


----------



## Fririce0003

yoga said:


> Thanks, very helpful. Woo's are notoriously difficult to source in the UK without paying far over the odds, so the Rag shall remain :¬)




 No worries, glad I could help. Given the price of the Rag compared to the WA5 with a good set of tubes it really is a bargain for the SQ and features you get. It's a pretty big unit though!


----------



## Yoga

fririce0003 said:


> No worries, glad I could help. Given the price of the Rag compared to the WA5 with a good set of tubes it really is a bargain for the SQ and features you get. It's a pretty big unit though!


 

 Yeah, very big. But I kinda like that :¬)
  
 Powers my speakers with ease!


----------



## mulder01

When you do your review, you should definitely title it "Schiit rag wipes floor"


----------



## Fririce0003

mulder01 said:


> When you do your review, you should definitely title it "Schiit rag wipes floor"




 Hahaha I couldn't pass up that opportunity!


----------



## matthewhypolite

Hey Guys,
  
 I'm having continous driver failures with Audeze Headphones. I'm getting ready to return my phones (Currently LCD-3F) for the 5th time due to driver failure. I've had failures since 2011 with complete different gear. And im currently using my D7000 with existing gear. I've come to the decision it's time to move on from audze. The LCD-3 sound amazing, and audeze support has been stellar, but the continual failures are wearing thin.
  
 I've always had my eye on the Abyss 1266, and i've made the decision to purchase.
 ​I'll be driving them wiht the RSA Dark Star, anyone here heard them with this amp before? I'm open to buying the Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold as many reviews i've seen says this amp pairs the best with the 1266.
  
  
  
 @ YOGA: DId you hear back what was the cause of the rattling in the pair you returned?


----------



## mulder01

Keep in mind that a lot of people love the liquid gold, but probably just as many people think it's over priced.  If you read the previous few posts, Fririce has tried a heap of different amps and ranks it quite low on the list, and puts the Ragnarok well above it (and at half the price too), so it really just depends who you talk to...


----------



## matthewhypolite

mulder01 said:


> Keep in mind that a lot of people love the liquid gold, but probably just as many people think it's over priced.  If you read the previous few posts, Fririce has tried a heap of different amps and ranks it quite low on the list, and puts the Ragnarok well above it (and at half the price too), so it really just depends who you talk to...


 

 ​Hmm, ragnarok well above? that's interesting. I paid 3500$ for my Dark Star before shipping, so it's around the price point of the liquid gold (based on the last sale/run they had, think it was going for around $4000).


----------



## mulder01

Yeah at that price point you have a LOT of options. Personally, I don't have enough experience with amps in this price bracket to feel like I can point you in any particular direction, I'm just saying have a think about it and maybe try and read though the second half of this thread before you lay down the $$... Having said that, I think you are the first one to mention the Dark Star so it may not be super useful comparison wise.


----------



## Fririce0003

matthewhypolite said:


> ​Hmm, ragnarok well above? that's interesting. I paid 3500$ for my Dark Star before shipping, so it's around the price point of the liquid gold (based on the last sale/run they had, think it was going for around $4000).




Keep in mind it's only my opinion for my tastes, but the LAu while it doesn't do anything bad, gets outclassed in every aspect by most amps. Nothing in particular stands out from the sound. It's a very polite amp, not overly musical, not overly detailed, not analytical but also not very warm.
 In contrast the rag is a fast amp, detailed and still musical. It doesn't quite have as much bass extension or soundstage width as something like the WA5 and it's mids aren't as lush as the p-700u. But the sound has qualities that draw you in and make you want to listen, that's the most important thing for my listening. The enjoyment I derive from the system as a whole. 
 I still prefer the abyss with the WA5, 234 and the Prautes is on par with the rag for me. If I were to go for a SS amp I'd go for the rag though. I haven't heard the moon 430ha yet though. So that may change things, I may have a chance to audition it later in the week though, fingers crossed.


----------



## matthewhypolite

can you clarify which amp is the LAu?

 And the only 2 high end amps I've had the opportunity to hear are the two I own, Headroom BUDA and RSA Dark Star.


----------



## reddog

Subbed. Might not be able to buy one, but can read up on it.


----------



## mulder01

matthewhypolite said:


> can you clarify which amp is the LAu?
> 
> And the only 2 high end amps I've had the opportunity to hear are the two I own, Headroom BUDA and RSA Dark Star.


 
  
 That got me the first time I saw it too - Liquid Gold gets abbreviated to LAu.  (L for liquid, Au the chemical symbol for gold)
  


fririce0003 said:


> I haven't heard the moon 430ha yet though. So that may change things, I may have a chance to audition it later in the week though, fingers crossed.


 
  
 Look forward to seeing where it slots into your list!


----------



## matthewhypolite

Figured he was refering to the Liquid Gold but wasnt sure, thanks for the clarification lol.

 ​Another question if anyone knows the difference, is there an audible difference in quality using Dual 3pin XLR vs Single 4pin? The Abyss Lite package looks good, but i dont wanna go single 4pin if dual 3pin will sound better. Both are balanced, so i take it they should both sound the same?


----------



## mulder01

Looks like your 2 extra pins are just ground and not actually connected to the headphone.


----------



## Fririce0003

Well I've finally had time to write down my thought on the Abyss/Rag combo. And here it is.
 First up this amp whilst musical is definitely solid state in nature, fast, punchy, quick decay and slightly prominent highs. If you want midrange lushness and euphonic decay you're better off going for a tubes amp in most cases.

 Soundstage: The soundstage on the Rag is pretty expansive for a SS amp, beating the LAu, P-700u, v281 and GS-X. But falls short of the WA5, 234 and is about on par with the Prautes. The soundstage is wide enough to have separation of the instruments but not so wide that it disconnects you from the performance. It's also got a nice amount of height to it which adds a little but of euphonic quality on extended notes.
 Detail, Imaging and Texture: A nicely detailed amp, not quite as resolving as the GS-X but the added soundstage helps to improve imaging due to the added separation. The details aren't strained either, they crop up naturally instead of being highlighted and thrown in your face. You can sit back and enjoy the music, but if you want to listen for something in the track the details are sufficient for critical listening. Texturing is a bit mixed, highs are rendered nicely with cymbals and brush strokes being nice and crisp with a definitive difference between the impact and decay. Bass texturing isn't as controlled as the WA5 or GS-X, it isn't bad but there is some bloom to it. Mids are around the median from the amps I've heard, vocals and guitars sound as they should but some added decay and warmth would help improve the depth and sophistication of the sound. Overall good texture but still a solid state affair.
 Dynamics and Background: I was pleasantly surprised at how quiet the background noise was in this amp, given how much sheer grunt it has. A nice quiet background, in audible at listening levels with nothing playing. Quietest background of all the amps I've heard bar the 234 with good tubes. The low background noise helps with dynamics as well, couple that with the extra head room for power and it makes for a very lively listen. There's a lot of energy to the sound. It's also worth noting this is a fast amp, faster than the GS-X and WA5.
 Tonality and Extension: The Rag is on the brighter side of neutral. Highs are slightly accentuated, making them a little prominent in the mix. Though sibilance didn't seem like an issue during listening. Mids are fleshed out with vocals being in line with the rest of the sound, neither recessed nor overly pronounced. Bass is quick and punchy but isn't quite as extended as the WA5 or GS-X. It also has a slight but of bloom compared to the other SS amps bar the LAu and P-700u.
 Summary: The Rag is an excellent amp, especially given it's price and what it offers. It's detailed, whilst still musical. Highs are slightly pronounced, not sibilant, but if you're not into brighter amps I'd suggest listening first. The sound is also notably SS, fast and punchy with bass weight and quick decay on notes. You don't get the same warmth and euphony compared to tubes. 

It's worth noting that the amp was fresh out of the box. So that might have created the emphasised highs and slight bloom to the bass. I think that covers most of what I heard from my brief session and as always; try and audition for yourself before buying. Your mileage may vary. And happy listening 

Edit: Also thought I'd add in my personal rankings so far. Note this is overall listening enjoyment not technical prowess.
 1: WA234
 2: WA5
 3: Prautes/Rag
 5: V281
 6: GS-X MKII/P-700u
 8: LAu/ALO MK3b+


----------



## negura

Interesting impressions. I certainly agree with many of those. I am finding the Rag on the warmer side of neutral with super smooth treble, maybe too smooth. Even compared to my class A speaker amp and Kgsshv. This is with the lcd3fs though. What is your DAC?


----------



## Fririce0003

negura said:


> Interesting impressions. I certainly agree with many of those. I am finding the Rag on the warmer side of neutral with super smooth treble, maybe too smooth. Even compared to my Kgsshv. This is with the lcd3fs though. What is your DAC?




 I was using an Auralic Vega as my DAC, it's more on the detailed side rather than smooth, so that may account for some of it. That and the 3F's are a very smooth, warm headphone with plenty of intimacy. Quite a different presentation to the Abyss but certainly enjoyable. 
 Burn in may also be a large factor, how long have you had yours?


----------



## negura

My Dac is a Theta - R2R. This could also matter. The Rag is a loaner demo so should be well burnin but this is an assumption.

I agree about the bass bloom - I noticed that straight away and its still there


----------



## Fririce0003

negura said:


> My Dac is a Theta - R2R. This could also matter. The Rag is a loner demo so should be well burnin but this is an assumption.
> 
> I agree about the bass bloom - I noticed that straight away.




 Sounds like the smoothness from the DAC is coming into play, Sabre vs R2R, for smoothness and musicality R2R wins hands down. The Vegas a nice DAC but compared to a good R2R it doesn't compare. Should never have listened to the DaVinci/234 combo, now I know what my system is lacking


----------



## negura

The combination of R2R, Lcd3 and Rag is a very very smooth navigator. With the Abyss more neutral and detailed crispier sig it should be straight on for my taste. For the lcd3fs not sure yet.


----------



## matthewhypolite

fririce0003 said:


> Edit: Also thought I'd add in my personal rankings so far. Note this is overall listening enjoyment not technical prowess.
> 1: WA234
> 2: WA5
> 3: Prautes/Rag
> ...


 
  
 Hmm, it's interesting seeing where you ranked the LAu. After seeing *Jude's Video* and getting feedback from a Joe at Abyss, i was pretty much sold on the LAu.

 What type of music do you listen to? Just to get a frame of reference for your tastes.


----------



## dBel84

I think people have varied opinions and I can respect that, having spent time with the WA5 it is not my "cup of tea" , more of a tube lovers amp and the LAu was leaps ahead for my personal preferences. I am one of those people who feel the LAu and Abyss were made for one another, just incredible synergy and with a detail oriented dac in front , the micro and macro detail is incredible with a realistic soundstage and positively forceful slam when it counts. It also helps that most of my headphones are planar and all benefit from the visceral power of the gold. 
  
 ..dB


----------



## matthewhypolite

dbel84 said:


> I think people have varied opinions and I can respect that, having spent time with the WA5 it is not my "cup of tea" , more of a tube lovers amp and the LAu was leaps ahead for my personal preferences. I am one of those people who feel the LAu and Abyss were made for one another, just incredible synergy and with a detail oriented dac in front , the micro and macro detail is incredible with a realistic soundstage and positively forceful slam when it counts. It also helps that most of my headphones are planar and all benefit from the visceral power of the gold.
> 
> ..dB


 

 ​I'm currently running the Dark Star and LCD3, bit of a Bass head, listen to a lot of Metal/Dubstep/Rock, so solid, controlled, deep, huge bass slam are qualities I look for in gear. Of course I look for good qualities across the entire spectrum, but gotta have that bass impact!

 And from what I've been seeing mostly, the Abyss+LAu gives exactly that. So I think knowing the type of music and what a user prefers is helpful for a reference in understanding their choice/preference in gear. Helps guide my decision a bit more.

 Gonna be picking up the Abyss soon, and looking to grab me a new amp, so i'm scouring the interwebs right now for info 

 All feedback is appreciated. Thanks @ dBel84


----------



## Fririce0003

matthewhypolite said:


> Hmm, it's interesting seeing where you ranked the LAu. After seeing *Jude's Video* and getting feedback from a Joe at Abyss, i was pretty much sold on the LAu.
> 
> 
> What type of music do you listen to? Just to get a frame of reference for your tastes.




 The LAu sound just wasn't for me, I can see why people would like it but with proper tubes I easily preferred the WA5 and 234. Don't get me wrong, the LAu wasn't bad, just nothing really grabbed my attention.
 The type of music I listen to most of the time is electronic, trance, classic rock and J-Pop. I also enjoy listening to classical and acoustic when the mood strikes.



dbel84 said:


> I think people have varied opinions and I can respect that, having spent time with the WA5 it is not my "cup of tea" , more of a tube lovers amp and the LAu was leaps ahead for my personal preferences. I am one of those people who feel the LAu and Abyss were made for one another, just incredible synergy and with a detail oriented dac in front , the micro and macro detail is incredible with a realistic soundstage and positively forceful slam when it counts. It also helps that most of my headphones are planar and all benefit from the visceral power of the gold.
> 
> ..dB




 Glad that you like the pairing, everyone heard different and prefers different things. At this level it's certainly more different tastes than one being definitively better than the other. I must profess to being a tube lover though, but I do also love the slam, weight and speed you get from the Abyss. The 234 certainly delivers, even with stock tubes. 
 If you've found what works for you, keep enjoying it!


----------



## mulder01

fririce0003 said:


> 8: LAu/ALO MK3b+


 
  
 I know you're not really a liquid gold fan, but to put a $5500 desktop amp on par with an $830 portable... wow.  I was going to buy one of these ALO amps recently only to find they were discontinued.  I'm a little bit more disappointed than I was before now 
  
 matthewhypolite, if you already have the Dark Star, why don't you just try it with the Abyss for a while?  If, after a few weeks you decide that it's lacking in a certain area, then go looking for a replacement, but no sense in looking for a replacement for something that's probably already suitable...  But if you want to try the LAu, is there anywhere you could buy it from with a 30 day return policy or something?  I mean, fingers crossed you are in the 'nothing is better than the liquid gold' camp, but if you find it no better than the Dark Star, that would suck to have just spent 5 grand on it.


----------



## Fririce0003

mulder01 said:


> I know you're not really a liquid gold fan, but to put a $5500 desktop amp on par with an $830 portable... wow.  I was going to buy one of these ALO amps recently only to find they were discontinued.  I'm a little bit more disappointed than I was before now
> 
> matthewhypolite, if you already have the Dark Star, why don't you just try it with the Abyss for a while?  If, after a few weeks you decide that it's lacking in a certain area, then go looking for a replacement, but no sense in looking for a replacement for something that's probably already suitable...  But if you want to try the LAu, is there anywhere you could buy it from with a 30 day return policy or something?  I mean, fingers crossed you are in the 'nothing is better than the liquid gold' camp, but if you find it no better than the Dark Star, that would suck to have just spent 5 grand on it.




 Hahaha the ALO did preform well given the price and purpose... Though ranking it alongside the LAu was a gross exaggeration.


----------



## matthewhypolite

@mulder01 i'm very much going to run it with the Dark Star for a while, buying the Abyss by itself first and running with current gear, but doing appropriate research on the LAu also. I've heard that some think the Dark Star is a bit bright with the Abyss whereas the LAu is a synergy made in heaven. lol. But like you said, i'll test it on my current rig and see how that goes first. Compare it to my other cans etc. If I do indeed end up with the LAu I can always sell the Dark Star. Or keep them around to drive some desktop speakers or something, if that would even work well.


----------



## mulder01

Ah ok, good idea.  Gotta love that synergy made in heaven.  I don't think you'll find a shortage of people that will recommend LAu+Abyss.  But if you may want to run speakers as well, then maybe look closer at the Ragnarok too for the speaker outputs on the back.  Unless you mean active speakers of course.  
  


fririce0003 said:


> Hahaha the ALO did preform well given the price and purpose... Though ranking it alongside the LAu was a gross exaggeration.


 
 haha I thought so. damn.


----------



## matthewhypolite

[size=10pt]​@mulder01 Would you believe I just press refresh on Cavalli website for Liquid Gold and saw reservations open for the August run.......soooo....tempttingggg.......[/size]
 [size=small]Wont be getting the Abyss till May, if I wait to test them before reserving the LAu, then I’ll have to wait until the next run, wonder how many runs per year cavalla has?[/size]
 [size=small]But I gotta say, im very tempted to press the reserve button and put down my $2k right now… lol.[/size]
 [size=small] [/size]
 [size=small]Edit: Just saw that Delivery for the August run begins in Nov, so that’d be next year for the LAu if I pass on this now. Wonder how fast they go….hmm…[/size]


----------



## mulder01

wow that's quite a wait.  haha I do not envy your position...
  
 There is always the option of second hand.  There is one for sale right now for US$3300 in the for sale section that ships worldwide, so if you miss this run, not all is lost.  They go up for sale fairly regularly by the look of it.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/751107/cavalli-liquid-gold-for-sale-amazing-price


----------



## plakat

matthewhypolite said:


> [size=small]Edit: Just saw that Delivery for the August run begins in Nov, so that’d be next year for the LAu if I pass on this now. Wonder how fast they go….hmm…[/size]


 
  
 Even if I had any interest in the Liquid Gold that would kill it for me. But there are plenty of good alternatives available, some even substantially cheaper (at least here in EU where I'd have to pay import duties for the Cavalli amp).


----------



## matthewhypolite

Yea, quite a wait is an understatement, $2000 upfront, then another $2k mid year, and no gear until year end....that's some commitment lol. Wonder why people sell them though...hmmm.


----------



## FiftyKilo

I was more than happy, that I did ordered my LAu last Year December. He was delivert middle of January and every thing went smooth and easy. Now with the powerfull US Dollar he getting more and more expensive for us in Europe.
 Ralf


----------



## mulder01

fririce, did you get to try the moon neo?


----------



## Fririce0003

mulder01 said:


> fririce, did you get to try the moon neo?




Nah, didn't get to audition it, couldn't find a place near me with a demo unit. So I spent the week off burning in the 234's :S


----------



## matthewhypolite

Just realized I haven't updated my position, I've since reserved myself a LAu......


----------



## cladane

hun7er said:


> But the Abyss it's not worth the french price.



I agree and Abyss price isn't alone in France so disconnected from original price. Proteus from CL, Accuphase stuff ... Perhaps French importers buy at street price? Or consider they bring high level added value? Getting CE label could be so expensive? Giving some leads...


----------



## Joe Skubinski

At current exchange rates the price is at par with the US price.


----------



## teddy57

So i currently have the lcd3-f and i have read that the sound is pretty much the lcd3-f on steroids. would you think it to be worthwhile to sell the lcd3-f and just keep the abyss or do each have their value? i recently got the lcd3-f like 2 months ago too..


----------



## Articnoise

teddy57 said:


> So i currently have the lcd3-f and i have read that the sound is pretty much the lcd3-f on steroids. would you think it to be worthwhile to sell the lcd3-f and just keep the abyss or do each have their value? i recently got the lcd3-f like 2 months ago too..


 

  

 I have only compered the Abyss to the LCD 3F for some hours, but I would not call the sound from Abyss as LCD 3F on steroids. To me the Abyss is more like a HD 800 on steroids. A master on technicality and image but so so on tonality (good but not excellent). 

 The Abyss sure has better speed, sound clearer/cleaner and have better texture and 3D image. The LCD 3F has the more pleasing midrange with more fullness and richness. The biggest difference I found in the treble and to me the LCD 3F do it much better. Yes the LCD 3F has a more forgiving treble which is a little rolled of compered to the Abyss, but that’s not all, the treble on the Abyss is IMO lacking in smoothness and can sound less real and organic. 

 As always try them you self in your own rig before selling one or the other. I could definitely have both if money was not an issue. And if matched with the “right” gears and mod the Abyss’s treble can probably be made to sound better (smoother and more organic).


----------



## Fririce0003

teddy57 said:


> So i currently have the lcd3-f and i have read that the sound is pretty much the lcd3-f on steroids. would you think it to be worthwhile to sell the lcd3-f and just keep the abyss or do each have their value? i recently got the lcd3-f like 2 months ago too..




 I'd hang onto the 3F's very different sound, compared the two in depth during a listening session hooked up to a DaVinci DAC, WA234 and shunyata hydra power, very revealing system. 
 From the 3F's you get a sense of immediacy and lushness that I've never heard from another headphone, very emotional and euphonic listen while still pulling adequate amounts of bass and detail. 
 On the other hand you have the abyss, closest you'll get to a big rig speaker system in headphones, like a proper $200k plus big rig. Soundstaging that's wide, deep and high. Not as wide as the HD800, but not far off and far more natural. The HD800's can come off as a tad etched and artificial in soundstage and detail, as though it were straining to get to that level. Tonality takes a bit of a shift, mids aren't as lush, but bass is more extended and very impactful. More detail is pulled and transients and speed increase. A more technically impressive headphone, still musical and euphonic. But not the same immersive, emotional listen you get from the 3F's. 
 Having heard both and owning the Abyss, heard the X's, SR-009's, owned the HD800's, PS-1000's, T5P's, Roxanne's and XC's. I'd say the ideal complement of headphones to cover every genere, and every listening mood it would be the Abyss, SR-009 and 3F's with what's currently avaliable for full sized headphones. 
 So if you've got the 3F's certainly hang onto them!
 Hope that helps


----------



## teddy57

fririce0003 said:


> I'd hang onto the 3F's very different sound, compared the two in depth during a listening session hooked up to a DaVinci DAC, WA234 and shunyata hydra power, very revealing system.
> From the 3F's you get a sense of immediacy and lushness that I've never heard from another headphone, very emotional and euphonic listen while still pulling adequate amounts of bass and detail.
> On the other hand you have the abyss, closest you'll get to a big rig speaker system in headphones, like a proper $200k plus big rig. Soundstaging that's wide, deep and high. Not as wide as the HD800, but not far off and far more natural. The HD800's can come off as a tad etched and artificial in soundstage and detail, as though it were straining to get to that level. Tonality takes a bit of a shift, mids aren't as lush, but bass is more extended and very impactful. More detail is pulled and transients and speed increase. A more technically impressive headphone, still musical and euphonic. But not the same immersive, emotional listen you get from the 3F's.
> Having heard both and owning the Abyss, heard the X's, SR-009's, owned the HD800's, PS-1000's, T5P's, Roxanne's and XC's. I'd say the ideal complement of headphones to cover every genere, and every listening mood it would be the Abyss, SR-009 and 3F's with what's currently avaliable for full sized headphones.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks! helped a lot! I'll be sure to keep it and hopefully save up for an abyss!


----------



## doyouknowSBmean

I have owned them for months. Keeping 3F and Abyss both is not a bad idea


----------



## Klonk

Anybody using his Abyss with a speaker amp and what is your experience compared to headphone amps. I am currently using it with a Lau, however being tube guy (mostly Audio Note) wondering if there is a better way of listing to the Abyss.


----------



## wink

Quote:Klonk 





> wondering if there is a better way of listing to the Abyss.


 
  
  
 In a deelp hole......


----------



## Klonk

Way to go dude


----------



## mulder01

There isn't a great number of people using speaker amps that regularly post in this thread but there are a few members using speaker amps if you read back into the thread a bit. I don't recall seeing any detailed impressions or comparisons though...  
  
 Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, but if you look at the liquid gold specs, it says it puts out up to 9w into 50 ohms, (abyss is 46 ohms) and if you look at the specs on the ragnarok which is a speaker amp as well, (putting out up to 100w into speakers) it still only puts out around the same amount of power into 50 ohms as the lau...
  
 Maximum Power, 4 ohms: 100W RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 8 ohms: 60W RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 15W RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 10W RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 1.7W RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 850mW RMS per channel
  
 So I assume if you went for a speaker amp, you would get around the same power output into a 50-odd ohm load.  Personally, I would have thought if you already had a speaker amp, you could just buy one of those hifiman adapters I mentioned a few pages ago and give it a try, but if you have to go out and buy a new amp, it makes sense to buy an amp designed for headphones, rather than buy an amp designed for speakers then adapt it for headphone use, imo.  Fririce has posted his impressions of a number of tube (and ss) _headphone_ amps over the last few pages if you decide to go that way, but I don't think there is much detail anywhere about tube speaker amps...  Hopefully someone can give you a better answer than me though - like you, I'm using an ss headphone amp.


----------



## Happy Camper

I've been just the opposite. I stopped using headphone amps and only use a speaker amp with my headphones. All headphones I use are wired balanced so the commons of each cup is isolated. If using an amp with a shared common, you can wire up a headphone jack off the speaker amp. If you don't know about shared common returns and isolated/balanced returns, stay with a balanced configuration. By balanced, I mean each cup uses one signal and one return. A shared common ties both returns to the same wire.


----------



## preproman




----------



## Klonk

Thank you mulder01 and Happy Camper for your reply. I decided to order a hifiman adapter. Will see how it works.


----------



## Happy Camper

If you aren't using a transformer coupled output amp, you don't need the resistors. IMO, it softens the response, taking some dynamics away. The key is to have control of the volume knob. The headphone will only draw what it needs for the db you desire. If you have it cranked up and put power on the driver, poof. Habit is to always turn the volume down before turning on or off.


----------



## wink

Yes, I use a balanced 80w per channel class A amp to drive my headphones.
  
 I don't use any adapter.
  
 But, it does give the amp a load around 8 to 10 ohms when you use a high impedance headphone.


----------



## Articnoise

To me a good amp is a good amp. If it’s a dedicated headphone amp or amp made for speakers is less important to me. That is important is that the amp can deliver a signal that has been amplified with as low modification as possible and that it is capable to do it at a load and with a current that match the transducers requirements. Not all transducers have the same requirements and the difference can be very significant.

 I also believe in the concept of the first watt, which is something along with “The first watt is the most important watt.” and “Who cares what an amplifier sounds like at 500 watts if it sounds like crap at one watt?” 

 The Sennheiser HDVD 600/800 and Audeze LCD X is a good example on an amp that has enough power to drive the efficient LCD X, but not sounding very good then driving it because of the low impedance load of the LCD X and the high impedance of the HDVD amp. 

 Another example is my favorite speakers the Thiel 6 and the Apogee Diva. They aren’t inefficiency by efficiency specifications, but needs an amp with a lot of power and current to sound good. A good amp for them sure needs to have a lot of power per se, but it is the ability to double down all the way down to 2 Ohm and more that makes them shine.

 So for me quality trumps quantity as long as they can handle the needed transducers load.  And as mulder has illustrate a speaker amp will not necessary deliver more power per se than some headphone amps, at the impedance that many headphones requires. 

 Does it mean that I think that a speaker amp will not sound better on headphones like the Abyss or Hifiman HE6? I think that many “high end” speaker amps (think: VAC, AR, ML, PL etc.) can sound better than most top of line headphone amp, not because of more power per se, but for their higher quality amplifying capacitive on the first watts.


----------



## wink

A good transconductance amplifier will shift it's output into even a short circuit.
  
 No need for worrying about overloads.
  
 Then problem though, is that efficient transfer of power is tied to impedance matching.
  
 This is the reason some electric clocks speed up as the battery goes flat. The internal impedance of the battery rises to match to impedance of the clock circuitry's input.


----------



## Happy Camper

I agree Arti, quality, not quantity. The benefit of speaker amps are that they have more power to offset impedance issues. Again, this isn't absolute but the headroom of a speaker amp gives more reserve punch at low volumes. One of the things I listen for is how the soundstage and positioning of instruments sound at low volumes. Many amps will collapse the soundstage on a planar if it don't have the steam. Turn it up and the soundstage expands and positioning grows outside the head. But it gets loud. This isn't solely a headphone amp problem as there are some really crappy "respected" brands that sound worse than expected. But the quality speaker amps will portray a much bigger soundstage and will provide the juice even at low volume.


----------



## negura

happy camper said:


> I agree Arti, quality, not quantity. The benefit of speaker amps are that they have more power to offset impedance issues. Again, this isn't absolute but the headroom of a speaker amp gives more reserve punch at low volumes. One of the things I listen for is how the soundstage and positioning of instruments sound at low volumes. Many amps will collapse the soundstage on a planar if it don't have the steam. Turn it up and the soundstage expands and positioning grows outside the head. But it gets loud. This isn't solely a headphone amp problem as there are some really crappy "respected" brands that sound worse than expected. But the quality speaker amps will portray a much bigger soundstage and will provide the juice even at low volume.


 
  
 Fully agree with this. The closest headamp to my class A speaker amp, was the HE-9. Ragnarok could not really drive the HE-6s that well. Surprisingly or not the speaker amp despite some background hush drove even the LCD-3Fs better than the headamps I tried. I would expect the very good speaker amps would be excellent with the Abyss, especially as they are some of the more demanding headphones. Nothing quite matches the soundstage of the speaker amp. Not even the best tube headamps I've heard.


----------



## reddog

happy camper said:


> I agree Arti, quality, not quantity. The benefit of speaker amps are that they have more power to offset impedance issues. Again, this isn't absolute but the headroom of a speaker amp gives more reserve punch at low volumes. One of the things I listen for is how the soundstage and positioning of instruments sound at low volumes. Many amps will collapse the soundstage on a planar if it don't have the steam. Turn it up and the soundstage expands and positioning grows outside the head. But it gets loud. This isn't solely a headphone amp problem as there are some really crappy "respected" brands that sound worse than expected. But the quality speaker amps will portray a much bigger soundstage and will provide the juice even at low volume.



Thanks for your impressions, especially how you critique the amps control at low volume. I agree a amp should have ample, if not complete c control of the sound output signature at low volume as well at any level one sets the volume. I have a old pioneer Reciever, that drives my headphones with surprising finesse. I need to get speaker plugs made, for my AP'S and see how the Reciever runs them too.


----------



## mulder01

Klonk, let us know what you think vs the LAu when you get around to it


----------



## Klonk

Although I ordered the HIFI man adapter, it could take weeks for it to arrive. And I am very curious which amp I will like better for the Abyss.


----------



## Yoga

This is making me want a speaker amp. Any suggestions?


----------



## wink

Buy one.
  
 Halcro DM58 comes to mind  ....


----------



## Yoga

Slightly out of budget 
  
 Anyone here paired the WA5 (300B) with the Abyss?


----------



## Fririce0003

yoga said:


> Slightly out of budget
> 
> Anyone here paired the WA5 (300B) with the Abyss?




I previously had that combo, upgraded to the 234 since, excellent pairing out of the k-1000 port. My favourite amp with the abyss out of the LAu, Rag, P-700u, Prautes, GS-X, V281 and MK3B+. Well with good tubes, stock are pretty crap compared to takatsuki's and nos drivers.


----------



## Yoga

fririce0003 said:


> I previously had that combo, upgraded to the 234 since, excellent pairing out of the k-1000 port. My favourite amp with the abyss out of the LAu, Rag, P-700u, Prautes, GS-X, V281 and MK3B+. Well with good tubes, stock are pretty crap compared to takatsuki's and nos drivers.


 

 Thanks. 234 aside, are you saying the WA5 was your fave out of the bunch? 
  
 Some say tubes aren't powerful enough for the Abyss.
  
 (Again, 234 outstanding.)


----------



## Fririce0003

yoga said:


> Thanks. 234 aside, are you saying the WA5 was your fave out of the bunch?
> 
> Some say tubes aren't powerful enough for the Abyss.
> 
> (Again, 234 outstanding.)




Yeah, 234 aside, the WA5 was top of the list. The 300b's had plenty of power, I don't listen too loud but I never put the volume past 12 o'clock. With good tubes you also get plenty of bass impact and extension, it textured very well too. So don't think for slamming bass you have to go for a solid state amp.


----------



## Yoga

fririce0003 said:


> Yeah, 234 aside, the WA5 was top of the list. The 300b's had plenty of power, I don't listen too loud but I never put the volume past 12 o'clock. With good tubes you also get plenty of bass impact and extension, it textured very well too. So don't think for slamming bass you have to go for a solid state amp.


 

 Thanks! That's some comparison you've conducted with the Abyss.
  
 Which DAC were/are you using?


----------



## Fririce0003

yoga said:


> Thanks! That's some comparison you've conducted with the Abyss.
> 
> Which DAC were/are you using?




No worries, glad I could help.
 The DAC I'm using is the Auralic Vega, I've used it in all my comparisons.


----------



## Yoga

fririce0003 said:


> No worries, glad I could help.
> The DAC I'm using is the Auralic Vega, I've used it in all my comparisons.


 
  
 Nice DAC. Currently on my purchase radar with the Yggy, AMR 777SE, La Scala II and Metrum Hex.
  
 Decisions, decisions


----------



## Fririce0003

yoga said:


> Nice DAC. Currently on my purchase radar with the Yggy, AMR 777SE, La Scala II and Metrum Hex.
> 
> Decisions, decisions




 It's a pretty nice DAC, on the detailed side a touch more than the musical side of things though. No complaints so far, just some small hiccups pairing with antipodes gear, easy fix though. 
 Sounds like you've got some tough decisions to make, I look forward to your decision. 
 Next upgrade for me will be either a DaVinci, DAC D1Dual or anything else interesting I stumble upon while saving up. In a year or so, maybe....


----------



## Yoga

fririce0003 said:


> It's a pretty nice DAC, on the detailed side a touch more than the musical side of things though. No complaints so far, just some small hiccups pairing with antipodes gear, easy fix though.
> Sounds like you've got some tough decisions to make, I look forward to your decision.
> Next upgrade for me will be either a DaVinci, DAC D1Dual or anything else interesting I stumble upon while saving up. In a year or so, maybe....


 

 That's the only thing keeping me away from it (Vega), and leaning towards the Hex (until the Yggy is reviewed); I prefer the musical side of neutral.
  
 DaVinci + 234, unless I'm mistaken, I recall reading someone saying they wish they hadn't heard that combo as it highlighted what perfection sounded like :¬)


----------



## Fririce0003

yoga said:


> That's the only thing keeping me away from it (Vega), and leaning towards the Hex (until the Yggy is reviewed); I prefer the musical side of neutral.
> 
> DaVinci + 234, unless I'm mistaken, I recall reading someone saying they wish they hadn't heard that combo as it highlighted what perfection sounded like :¬)




Hahaha, guilty as charged, it was a stunning combination. Detail, emotion and musicality. I haven't heard many DAC's in that bracket though, so I may have to shelve the perfection part until a later date... But it was the best I've heard thus far


----------



## mulder01

wink said:


> Buy one.
> 
> Halcro DM58 comes to mind  ....


 
  
 wink - I just looked at your profile.  All those headphones and no Abyss.  What's going on!


----------



## wink

I retired before I could afford one after I bought the Stax SR009


----------



## Yoga

DaVinci + 234, that's an endgame setup if I ever saw one :¬)
  
 I'll have to 'make do' with AMR 777SE / Scala MKII + amp.
  
 Pending the Yggy reviews, of course.


----------



## mulder01

wink said:


> I retired before I could afford one after I bought the Stax SR009


 
  
 Just go back to work for a few months 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


yoga said:


> DaVinci + 234, that's an endgame setup if I ever saw one :¬)


 
  
 I wonder if it's worth the extra $20k for DSD capability...


----------



## customcoco

mulder01 said:


> I wonder if it's worth the extra $20k for DSD capability...


 
 Are you serious ?


----------



## wink

Quote:Mulder01 





> wink said:
> 
> 
> > I retired before I could afford one after I bought the Stax SR009
> ...


 
 Being a checkout chick just doesn't appeal that much to me.....


----------



## mulder01

customcoco said:


> Are you serious ?


 
  
 For some reason, the standard version is $30k and the exact same thing with DSD support is $50k.
  
 I haven't heard it, but I would speculate that the upgrade is not worth it...
  
  


wink said:


> Being a checkout chick just doesn't appeal that much to me.....


 
  
 You're going to need a better paying job than that if you're gonna get those floor standing mono's to pair with it...


----------



## pearljam50000

$20K?
 How about 149$?
  
 http://schiit.com/products/loki


----------



## mulder01

pearljam50000 said:


> $20K?
> How about 149$?
> 
> http://schiit.com/products/loki


 
 Have a da vinci dac for your PCM and a loki for your DSD you reckon?


----------



## Fririce0003

mulder01 said:


> Have a da vinci dac for your PCM and a loki for your DSD you reckon?




If the Loki could produce DSD at the same level as the DaVinci that would be great. Though, despite not hearing the Loki, I remain very, very doubtful.


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> For some reason, the standard version is $30k and the exact same thing with DSD support is $50k.


 
  
 That's insane!


----------



## isquirrel

Well I have gone and joined the Abyss club, they arrive tomorrow.


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> Well I have gone and joined the Abyss club, they arrive tomorrow.




 For the first time I can genuinely say, sorry about your wallet! 
 It'll be interesting to see if this can sway you from the 3F camp, looking forward to hearing how it all goes


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> For the first time I can genuinely say, sorry about your wallet!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Its all your fault ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I can honestly say its taken me a long time to come around to this, but I thought its not fair to give them a bashing until I have spent some time with them. So hopefully I will be reporting on how I have to wipe the egg off my face.....


----------



## wink

When do I get to audition the Abyss?   tee hee


----------



## mulder01

wink said:


> When do I get to audition the Abyss?   tee hee


 
 ... when a2a open their Sydney store


----------



## isquirrel

yoga said:


> That's insane!


 

 Yep, agreed, no argument here. Larry is working on new firmware that enables true native DSD.


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> Yep, agreed, no argument here. Larry is working on new firmware that enables true native DSD.


 

 That's more like it :¬)
  
 In your DAC endeavours, did you ever audition the Lampizator Big 7 or AMR 777 ?


----------



## isquirrel

yoga said:


> That's more like it :¬)
> 
> In your DAC endeavours, did you ever audition the Lampizator Big 7 or AMR 777 ?


 

 Nope, I have had NOS DAC's such as the Audio Note DAC5 which was tube based, I am an analog guy so I was looking for a specific sound signature and when I listened to the DaVinci I knew that was the one, the search ended there. Subsequent updates have lifted its performance higher. IMHO and this is highly subjective but I don't believe there is a place for valves in a linear digital device other than in the analog output stage (perhaps) personally I would rather play with tubes in the amps.


----------



## isquirrel

What is the group consensus on burn in time for the Abyss?
  
 Matt has told me how important it is to get the fit right. So will start there.


----------



## reddog

pearljam50000 said:


> $20K?
> How about 149$?
> 
> http://schiit.com/products/loki


+1 yes get the Loki for 149 USD.


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> Nope, I have had NOS DAC's such as the Audio Note DAC5 which was tube based, I am an analog guy so I was looking for a specific sound signature and when I listened to the DaVinci I knew that was the one, the search ended there. Subsequent updates have lifted its performance higher. IMHO and this is highly subjective but I don't believe there is a place for valves in a linear digital device other than in the analog output stage (perhaps) personally I would rather play with tubes in the amps.


 
  
 Tubes at amplification level makes complete sense. I'd love to hear your setup :¬)
  
 Abyss burn in, absolutely no idea. Mine sound smoother by the week and I've probably not hit the 200 hour mark yet (replacement set). Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## Trance_Gott

I bought a aftermarket cable with Redco Mini XLR connectors. But they don't fit fully in the Abyss (not snapped in). Too bad. Only the Rean Mini XLR seems to fit to the Abyss. And the Aluminoyl cable of the Abyss don't fit to the Audeze. I thought Mini XLR is a standard connection haha.


----------



## isquirrel

Abyss have arrived and are settling in. 
  
 Looks like I have judged these harshly before, hmm really enjoying them tonight. Getting the right fitment was interesting, but I think I am getting there.
  
 Big thanks to Addicted to Audio in Melbourne for making it all happen so quickly and for finally twisting my arm....


----------



## up late

they don't look half bad on that can stand.  man that woo amp is massive


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> Abyss have arrived and are settling in.
> 
> Looks like I have judged these harshly before, hmm really enjoying them tonight. Getting the right fitment was interesting, but I think I am getting there.


 
  
 Listen to:
  
 Michael Jackson - Scream (although all of his stuff is amazing with them)
  
 Simon and Garfunkel - Mrs. Robinson
  
 Lorde - Royals
  
 Sam Smith - Stay With Me (I know, I know. But the bass and stage work perfectly together.)
  
 Anything by Shpongle (specifically Dorset Perception, compare that to the 3F to see how well the Abyss handles complex layers) or Trentemoller (The Chronicles is an absolute masterpiece of electronic soundscape design).
  
 Never heard them sound as good as with the Abyss.
  
 Loads of others, but those came to my mind first :¬)
  
 Anyone got any other album/tracks they think the Abyss really shines with?


----------



## reddog

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on these amazing headphones.


----------



## mulder01

isquirrel said:


> Abyss have arrived and are settling in.
> 
> Looks like I have judged these harshly before, hmm really enjoying them tonight. Getting the right fitment was interesting, but I think I am getting there.
> 
> Big thanks to Addicted to Audio in Melbourne for making it all happen so quickly and for finally twisting my arm....


----------



## Yoga

A little update, I got hold of the Moon Neo 430HA D (Dac version) yesterday.
  
 One word. Wow.
  
 I wrote a few words here:
  
post #316


----------



## isquirrel

Have some 150 hours on my Abyss now, so time for impressions:
  
 Firstly I was dead wrong about these headphones. They have converted me.
  
 Things I like are:
  
 Ability to tune the sound with fit - toe in etc, very much like high end speakers, minute changes are easily heard, I like this flexibility to tune the sound and I find it changes depending on what genre of music I am listening to.
  
 The bass authority and extension, simply there is nothing else like it - period. Bass is layered and at times staggering in its depth and extension.
  
 Musicality - okay with my system I initially found them more analytical to what I was used to, I have come to realise that through tuning the fitment I can get the sound I want on every genre. They are not coloured transducers.
  
 Power - They need an amp with decent current driving abilities - Have not heard the Moon but based on what I am hearing here will be getting one for those occasions I want to travel light.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Using the Woo 234 I find the optimum output key is the Cathode Output Hi-Z (for anyone that's interested) so I find I am using a good 40% of the amps power. The Cathode Output is by no means the most powerful - that's the Plate Output however whilst the Abyss might like 8 watts my head doesn't.
  
 Speed - the Abyss are fast, love it.
  
 Dynamic's - The Abyss doesn't suffer from dynamic compression that every other headphone I have heard does, it throws a great soundstage is layers and gives separation to the performance.
  
 I have a feeling that they will continue to open up more and more and my gut feel is with 400-500 hours on them, they will have moved further on. I have never heard a headphone change so much in its 1st 100 Hours.
  
 Just for fun I hooked a sub pac up and without telling a friend I invited him to sit down and listen to the sound track from Interstellar - ha he almost got thrown out of the chair, the look on his face was priceless  I managed to keep a straight face when I said that my friend is what good headphones can do for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am now wondering about cables, has anyone tried the Double Helix cables?
  
 Summary: Took me a while but hey that's the enjoyment of the journey right, turn out the Abyss are by a country mile the best headphone I have heard.


----------



## Yoga

Glad you're enjoying them! Great thoughts/review. I can't listen to any other headphone now. All I can think is "I wonder how this sounds on the Abyss..." :¬)
  
 I also love the fact you can tweak the alignment per song/album to get the bass/treble perfect.
  
 P.S. I love that soundtrack. Cornfield Chase / STAY especially. Check out Atomos I  - A Winged Victory for the Sullen. You'll enjoy that too.


----------



## Yoga

Did any Abyss owners burn their pair in when not on the head? I don't ever play them when not on my head, as I get the feeling (I could be wrong) that the drivers require the opposing pressure to operate properly.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

As one owner put it, we wouldn't make a headphone that would be damaged by playing music.


----------



## Yoga

joe skubinski said:


> As one owner put it, we wouldn't make a headphone that would be damaged by playing music.


 

 Some precision gear needs equally precise treatment :¬)
  
 Glad to know I can rack some more hours up when not listening personally. Cheers!


----------



## isquirrel

yoga said:


> Did any Abyss owners burn their pair in when not on the head? I don't ever play them when not on my head, as I get the feeling (I could be wrong) that the drivers require the opposing pressure to operate properly.


 

 Yep, I leave mine on my desk often burning in, I would think they are the same as loudspeakers, designed to play music wherever you're listening or not.


----------



## isquirrel

yoga said:


> Glad you're enjoying them! Great thoughts/review. I can't listen to any other headphone now. All I can think is "I wonder how this sounds on the Abyss..." :¬)
> 
> I also love the fact you can tweak the alignment per song/album to get the bass/treble perfect.
> 
> P.S. I love that soundtrack. Cornfield Chase / STAY especially. Check out Atomos I  - A Winged Victory for the Sullen. You'll enjoy that too.


 

 Really enjoyed A Winged Victory for the Sullen, excellent. 
  
 Thank you


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> Really enjoyed A Winged Victory for the Sullen, excellent.
> 
> Thank you


 

 Most welcome :¬)


----------



## teddy57

Hm would you recommend the Moon Neo 430HA or the rag for the abyss? I hear mixed things for both..although the moon is twice the price..


----------



## Yoga

teddy57 said:


> Hm would you recommend the Moon Neo 430HA or the rag for the abyss? I hear mixed things for both..although the moon is twice the price..


 
  
 Depends what you want. Lots of chat from this page onwards:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/719100/moon-n-o-430ha-reference-headphone-amplifier/300
  
 I've heard both, although not with the same dac. The Rag + Hugo left me feeling *very* disappointed (after all the hype), it felt cold and sterile; I had no emotional engagement to the music. The 430 (dac version) on the other hand has me in audio heaven. It's musical, coherent, utterly engaging and the dac section, for £600 extra, is a mind boggling bargain. The warmth is the perfect partner to the technical nature of the Abyss. I'm hearing a combination of details, texture and realism in music that I've never heard before, but even more importantly, I get lost in the music. Totally lost. Technicalities become moot, and enjoyment becomes both natural and perpetual. 
  
 The 430/Abyss also has incredible dynamic range at low listening volumes. A joy!
  
 The 430 mids are really something to behold. I'm a big fan of the Audeze 2.2 and 3F sound, but my goodness, this combo is even better. I always find myself using the word _delicious_ to describe them.
  
 A diversion for those wondering about the 430, Abyss and a suitable DAC...
  
 Don't be fooled by the (relatively) exceedingly cheap cost of the dac. Moon have a dedicated Neo dac for over £4K, and while its entire internals will not be ported directly into the 430, the heart of the engine/hardware will have been. Those internals, when not being constructed and sold in a separate unit, is much cheaper for Moon to port over to another piece of hardware (the 430). The costs associated with the chassis, full production and distribution of a standalone (dac) unit are circumvented, and that's a _considerable_ saving.
  
 There are obvious synergistic benefits to a natively hardwired dac. They're built/specced for one another and wired directly, offering the shortest signal path while avoiding the dance of interconnects and additional power supplies (longer signal with increased potential for degradation). In other words, it's incredibly efficient.
  
 I had originally grabbed the 430 as a loaner in which to pair with the Lampizator Big 7 dac (starts at $10,500), with no intention of using the 430 dac section (at £600 it's going to be average, right?). I did pair the 430 and Big 7 for an evenings Abyss audition, and as you'd expect, it was truly excellent. Engaging, detailed, textured and dynamic.
  
 Then, with no expectation at all, I tried the dac section of the 430. My head nearly fell off into my lap. Similar sonic superlatives that popped into my mind when listening to the world class Big 7 again saturated my eardrums. While I did not A/B the two dacs extensively, I was left wanting absolutely nothing from the 430 dac, I wasn't pining for the Big 7 when I got home, something I was expecting to happen. I was prepared to part with £6.5K (asking price for it). $1000 vs $10500 (minimum). That's a tenth of the price. And I would say, which may annoy some people, for 90% of the performance.
  
 Caveat 1: The Big 7 comparison is based _only_ on the Abyss, and _only_ with my musical preferences (both sonic signatures and genres). I am by no means an experienced 'golden ear' audiophile. I have no experience with TOTL speaker setups. The vast majority of big spenders (dac wise) do so with speaker setups, not headphones. Differences and sonic nuances (especially sound stage and imaging) are much more pronounced when filling a room rather than two ear canals. 
  
 Caveat 2: I'm not an audiophile, I'm a passionate lover of music, and I want to hear music in a way that stirs, and feeds, my soul. I want emotional engagement rather than technical perfection. I want to love an amp/dac because it connects me to the energy of the music, gives me uncontrollable emotional goosebumps, not because it has the power to reveal all detail. Music is about feeling, not thinking. Of course, technical perfection can stir the soul of others, and musicality/warmth/euphoria can detract from it. _Each to their own._
  
 TL;DR: I will still audition the Yggdrasil when it's released, but for now, the 430HA D is a single box of magic that when paired with the Abyss, delivers everything I'm looking for, and then some.
  
 As always, _YMMV_.


----------



## teddy57

Thanks Yoga, trying to find what to pair with the abyss and the Moon and the Lau seem to be on the top of the list! Appreciate it


----------



## isquirrel

Guys I am struggling with getting the right fit, I understand that you want a loose fit but how loose, I have the ear pads lightly touching my face etc, not pressing against it and some toe in. I have watched the video but wanted to get some experience from you guys about your experiences.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> Guys I am struggling with getting the right fit, I understand that you want a loose fit but how loose, I have the ear pads lightly touching my face etc, not pressing against it and some toe in. I have watched the video but wanted to get some experience from you guys about your experiences.
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 I have the stitch on the ear pads at about 11 o'clock, and they touch skin _very_ lightly. There is no pressure whatsoever, they just hang over the ears.
  
 Too loose and I find the bass is prone to blooming. Too tight and it loses impact.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

This year we introduced a new lower cost version of our headphone package now available from your Abyss Headphone dealer, the AB-1266 Lite. 

This basic set is the same headphone as in the 'Full' package, but with a JPS Labs 4 pin XLR balanced cable and 1/4" (6.3 mm) adaptor (no other accessories).

More information available on our website at http://www.abyssheadphones.com/abyss_ab_1266_lite.html

Thanks!



​


----------



## mulder01

Same headphone for $1000 less is a pretty good option, OR get a nice custom build (I actually quite like this one) 
  

  
  
  
 Quote:


isquirrel said:


> Guys I am struggling with getting the right fit, I understand that you want a loose fit but how loose, I have the ear pads lightly touching my face etc, not pressing against it and some toe in. I have watched the video but wanted to get some experience from you guys about your experiences.
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Hi, I just realised we all sorta ignored this question - I think I have a bit of a weird head so my fit was a bit more difficult to get perfect. Don't know if it can help you or not...
  
 So while I am a melonhead, I must also have a bit of a v-shaped head, because if I bend the headband out like shown in the video, the angle of the drivers ends up facing slightly more downward and I get quite a lot of pressure above my ear, but could comfortably fit my finger between my head and the earpad underneath.  Then if I bent the headband inward so the drivers were facing slightly upward, the shape was right for a fit all around my ear, but it was way too tight, even fully adjusted out at the screw on top.
  
 So rather than the nice smooth quarter circle it is bent to out of the factory, I had to take it it into the shed and try and roll out flat the first part of the bend so the headband became wider, then do a sharper bend at the end of the curve so it was wider, but the drivers were still facing more upward.  Here's a picture that I had a go at in paint so you can see what I mean.  After I did it I got my wife to try them on, and she said they were a bit better fit for her too, but she has the 2 halves of the headband pushed all the way together and I have mine all the way out.
  
 Hopefully that's of some use to you...


----------



## deuter

mulder01 said:


> Hi, I just realised we all sorta ignored this question - I think I have a bit of a weird head so my fit was a bit more difficult to get perfect. Don't know if it can help you or not...
> 
> So while I am a melonhead, I must also have a bit of a v-shaped head, because if I bend the headband out like shown in the video, the angle of the drivers ends up facing slightly more downward and I get quite a lot of pressure above my ear, but could comfortably fit my finger between my head and the earpad underneath.  Then if I bent the headband inward so the drivers were facing slightly upward, the shape was right for a fit all around my ear, but it was way too tight, even fully adjusted out at the screw on top.
> 
> ...




You customised them.


----------



## pearljam50000

660 grams sounds like a lot, do they feel that heavy on the head?


----------



## mulder01

deuter said:


> You customised them.


 
  
 Well, not really, you're kinda expected to have to bend the headband a little.  I just bent it probably a little more than normal because I have a weird head and was fussy about the fit being spot-on.
  


pearljam50000 said:


> 660 grams sounds like a lot, do they feel that heavy on the head?


 
  
 I've never noticed the weight personally, but I don't wear them for long periods of time either (probably up to about an hour).  After a while, the top of my head where the headband is gets a bit sore, but I wonder if my head is a bit sensitive to any sort of pressure.  Headphones like the HD800 and TH900 that have thin padding around the ears make the sides of my head sore a lot faster than the Abyss makes the top of my head sore... If that makes sense - for me, the pressure of the headband on the Abyss is not as bad as the pressure of the earpads on the Sennheiser and Fostex is what I mean.  Which is a shame, because the TH900 was my favorite sounding closed can.  If I had to wear the Abyss for hours every day, I'd probably but a bit of foam under the headband, but of course, ymmv.  I should probably mention that I can't even wear sunglasses for more than a couple of hours without the pressure of the frames against my head make me have to take them off... Yep, I'm weird.


----------



## up late

the weight was well distributed and it was comfortable enough but you wouldn't want to make any sudden moves


----------



## Yoga

The weight is no issue for me either, and I listen for _hours_ at a time. Having said that, a couple of times the top of my head, where the soft band sits, did start to feel slightly sensitive. Moving the band (rotating the headphones from the point of the ears) an inch forward/backward fixed it.


----------



## isquirrel

pearljam50000 said:


> 660 grams sounds like a lot, do they feel that heavy on the head?


 
 Nope, not in the slightest, my LCD-X's & 3F's give me a hot spot on top of my head which becomes uncomfortable after a while. The Abyss it terms of headband works much better.
  
 The issue I have is I spend a l lot of time listening while I am working at my desk and whenever I tilt my head forward, look down etc the Abyss does move on my head. Of course I can push the pads in however I lose some air and bass extension.


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> The issue I have is I spend a l lot of time listening while I am working at my desk and whenever I tilt my head forward, look down etc the Abyss does move on my head. Of course I can push the pads in however I lose some air and bass extension.


 
  
 This is very true, it's a balancing act. I had to change my head bopping habits to keep my chin parallel with the floor/desk when getting into the music. Any 'tilt' had bopping and the Abyss can swing a little bit. You get used to it pretty quickly :¬)


----------



## wink




----------



## isquirrel

That is one happy *****


----------



## wink

Quote:isquirrel 





> This is one happy squirrel


 
 FTFY


----------



## sathyam

This week I have been listening to totally new setup with my Abyss. This had been one of the most enjoyable week this year. 

I just replaced an Auralic Vega + Auralic Taurus Mk 2 with a PS Audio DirectStream DAC + Liquid Gold Amp. The DirectStream has been one of the best DOCs I have heard. I have a whole lot of Indian classical and Indian old film music FLACs that I had not listened to in a while as the Vega gave me a headache. Once I heard this music on the DirectStream, I have been hearing details I had never heard before. Also, the imaging for this 16bit music was truly 3d like. 

I have finally found my endgame setup.


----------



## isquirrel

I noticed today that some people in the CanJam SoCal event have mentioned a modded Abyss. Does anyone here know what they are referring to?
  
 "Abyss: I listened to purrin's modded set and they sounded better than before.  The treble was a lot cleaner sounding and strings sounded much more 'right' than they do on the stock Abyss.  I had a theory going in about the "speaker like" presentation/bass that this headphone is known for and pretty much verified it in my mind today.  It seems everybody listens to the Abyss with a partial, very weak seal (the designers even encourage this) and I think this is a huge contributor to the speaker-like stuff.  I spent my whole demo kind've pushing the cups in and pulling them out so that I could compare a full seal to the normal seal in rapid succession.  With the partial seal, as with most electrostats and orthos, you get more mid bass kick and less sub bass extension; with the full seal you get a more linear bass response.  This is nothing new so it didn't really surprise me, but there was one other thing that had a surprising result from the different seals: soundstage.  With the full seal, you get a normal headphone soundstage, though these suffer a little from the "3 blob" effect (left/center/right without much fleshing out in between).  With the partial seal, the center of the soundstage basically disappears and you get a "2 blob" headstage with much more crosstalk than a normal headphone.  So ya, definitely "speaker like".  These would be a nice upgrade over the HE1000 if they lowered the price by offering it with a normal or no cable, and implemented some of Marv's mods.  I'd wear them with a full seal, YMMV."
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/758649/canjam-socal-2015-impressions-thread/225


----------



## deuter

sathyam said:


> This week I have been listening to totally new setup with my Abyss. This had been one of the most enjoyable week this year.
> 
> I just replaced an Auralic Vega + Auralic Taurus Mk 2 with a PS Audio DirectStream DAC + Liquid Gold Amp. The DirectStream has been one of the best DOCs I have heard. I have a whole lot of Indian classical and Indian old film music FLACs that I had not listened to in a while as the Vega gave me a headache. Once I heard this music on the DirectStream, I have been hearing details I had never heard before. Also, the imaging for this 16bit music was truly 3d like.
> 
> I have finally found my endgame setup.




Wow I'd love to get my hands on some Indian music, especially some classical. Any idea on where I can source it from


----------



## mulder01

isquirrel said:


> I noticed today that some people in the CanJam SoCal event have mentioned a modded Abyss. Does anyone here know what they are referring to?


 
 Maybe send him a PM, tell him to come over here...


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> Maybe send him a PM, tell him to come over here...


 
  
 Yes, would be very interested to hear about that too!
  
 Great stuff Sathyam!


----------



## sathyam

deuter said:


> Wow I'd love to get my hands on some Indian music, especially some classical. Any idea on where I can source it from


 
 Most of my Indian music is from the CDs I have bought during visits to India and Indian stores here in the US. HDTracks has some albums, not many, but a few good to start:
  
 http://www.hdtracks.com/world/indian
  
 I suggest: Indian Architexture, Zakir Hussain & The Rhythm Experience, A Meeting by the River, Bourbon & Rosewater, Tabula Rasa, Southern Brothers to start with.The last few are more fusion but are heavily indian classical


----------



## sathyam

Once the AB-1266 is setup according to the Joe's video on youtube, for yourself, you don't feel like you are wearing a 660 grams headphone.It is very balanced and I have worn these for 8 hours straight without feeling any fatigue and discomfort


----------



## wink

Quote:isquirrel 





> I noticed today that some people in the CanJam SoCal event have mentioned a modded Abyss. Does anyone here know what they are referring to?


 
 Send Marv a pm......


----------



## Faddius

Just connected the Abyss to my system for the first time. Only about 20 mins in but holey moley the bass kick is insane. Not in a techno way but in a more natural way like im listening to a live rock band and you can feel the air whoosh past every time the drummer kicks with the bass drum.

Fun times ahead.


----------



## icebear

...mmmh after only 20 min. you already start posting on the internet instead of deep diving into listening and forgetting about anything else.
 Must be a really captivating experience with your new Abyss


----------



## reddog

sathyam said:


> Most of my Indian music is from the CDs I have bought during visits to India and Indian stores here in the US. HDTracks has some albums, not many, but a few good to start:
> 
> http://www.hdtracks.com/world/indian
> 
> ...



Thanks for your recommendations, I like music from all over the world and will look up the music you have suggested.


----------



## isquirrel

Positively loving the Abyss, haven't even thought about listening to any other headphone, magic combination with TSRP 6SN7's, Takatsuki 300B's and Mullard Metal base rectifiers.
  
 The sound is incredibly real and very smooth and intimate. Awesome ! Glad I (finally) joined the club


----------



## pearljam50000

If he would have got a new HD800 he would not have posted for 3 days (;


icebear said:


> ...mmmh after only 20 min. you already start posting on the internet instead of deep diving into listening and forgetting about anything else.
> Must be a really captivating experience with your new Abyss


----------



## mulder01

Was just reading this off the SoCal impressions:
  
"As an aside, many show attendees commented that Abyss’ AB-1266, as driven by the Wells Audio Headtrip amplifier, produced some of the finest sound to be heard in all of CanJam."
  
 I don't think that amp has ever even been mentioned here.  Mind you, it's US$7k...
  
  
 Quote:


icebear said:


> ...mmmh after only 20 min. you already start posting on the internet instead of deep diving into listening and forgetting about anything else.
> Must be a really captivating experience with your new Abyss


 
  
 Ah leave him alone, it's an exciting time - sometimes you just can't wait to tell everybody 
  
  


pearljam50000 said:


> If he would have got a new HD800 he would not have posted for 3 days (;


 
  
 I really don't get what all the fuss is about with the HD800 - To me, they look and feel plastic-y and cheap, they're uncomfortable and the music is really shoved down your throat.  When I auditioned them, I think I went from a relatively laid-back female vocal track (which sounded fine)  to "Thirsty Dog" by Nick Cave at the same volume (which is a track with really harsh sounding guitars at the start that I use to test how harsh a pair of headphones can be) and I nearly impulsively threw them off my head it was that full-on.  I understand that they have their purpose if you work in music or listen very critically or only to certain genres or whatever, but I definitely wouldn't consider them an overall enjoyable listen.


----------



## wink

I don't think sitting in front of blaring trumpets is enjoyable. but if the HD800 does a great job of reproducing that feeling then it's doing it's job. All I need is to stop listening to trumpets blaring down a microphone.
  
 i.e. stop listening to Nick Cave playing Thirsty Dog through HD800's.  The realism is the problem. Don't do it.


----------



## pearljam50000

The HD800 is like Genelec monitors, very polarizing sound, you either like the brutal and revealing sound or you don't.
Most people prefer a more musical and pleasant sound, which makes sense.


----------



## wink

..... but the more musical and pleasant sounds aren't realistic.
  
 Aye, there's the rub.....  sayeth the immortal bard.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thats exactly why i like the HD800 (;
I want the truth, even if it's ugly, in real life when you hear a cymbal being hit or a trumpet, the metallic sound is not very easy on the hear, but that's exactly how i like it on my headphones, because it's real, i don't want the highs to sound "smooth" or "silky".


wink said:


> ..... but the more musical and pleasant sounds aren't realistic.
> 
> Aye, there's the rub.....  sayeth the immortal bard.


----------



## mulder01

But the Abyss _does_ sound realistic - it's just that the detail isn't shoved down your throat.  I would liken the experience to putting on a pair of glasses and not realising you had bad eyes until just now - all the detail that you never noticed before is now there, but it's presented to you in a nice seamless way so that you can enjoy and appreciate it.  
  
 Imagine you are sitting in a park, birds chirping, kids playing, dogs running around, joggers going by, then a maintenance guy goes past with a lawnmower.  On the Abyss, the lawnmower going past sounds like a lawnmower going past.  On the HD800, there is a crazy person that comes up behind you, puts your arms behind your back, puts his other hand around the back of your neck, and pushes your head right next to the lawnmower motor and yells at you "See!  It's a lawnmower! Do you hear it!  Sounds like a lawnmower, hey?!"  and I'm like yes, I know, this doesn't make it any better, please let me go.


----------



## pearljam50000

lol
 You *really* hate the the HD800 don't you?
 But that's OK ,we all hear differently.
 Anyways i hope the Abyss is not much better than HD800 because i will never be able to afford it anyways haha, 5000$ is just too much(for me).
 You can buy speakers for that amount , that will blow your mind.


----------



## up late

the hd800 does have that treble spike which can make harsh recordings sound worse. it's called the "face tweeter" for a reason.


----------



## mulder01

up late said:


> it does have that treble spike which can make harsh recordings sound worse. it's called the "face tweeter" for a reason;


 
  
 They call it the face tweeter??
  


pearljam50000 said:


> lol
> You *really* hate the the HD800 don't you?
> But that's OK ,we all hear differently.
> Anyways i hope the Abyss is not much better than HD800 because i will never be able to afford it anyways haha, 5000$ is just too much(for me).
> You can buy speakers for that amount , that will blow your mind.


 
  
 Look, I see that the HD800 has it's fans, and if someone who was just coming into the high end head-fi market asked me what they should be looking at, the HD800 would be one of the first things I recommend to them - although I don't like it myself, I recognise that a lot of people think it's the best headphone at any price and it deserves credit even if it's not my cup of tea.  (Though I will still give my opinion).  Thing is, I'm a one headphone sort of guy, and I don't see the point in spending a large sum of money on something that's not good at everything.  Why spend so much on a pair of high end cans, for the purpose of getting extra enjoyment out of listening to music, then not enjoying half of your music collection because it doesn't present well on the HD800.  Having said that though, if you DO like the way all your music presents on the HD800 then perhaps the Abyss isn't the headphone for you.  But then again, some people own both.  So I dunno.  If different cans for different genres is your thing, then I can understand that too.  And as you say, we all hear differently anyway.
  
 Also, I previously owned a pair of speakers around the same price before I crossed over to head-fi and I thought the Abyss was well ahead in terms of sound quality, which was another thing that helped justify the price for me - I was willing to spend $5k on speakers for my musical enjoyment, so why couldn't I spend $5k on something else for my musical enjoyment that sounded even better?  Admittedly, the fact that it's that much money for a pair of headphones is hard to get past, but I guess I eventually got past it.  If you believe the claim on their promo poster, they're QUITE A BIT better than $5k speakers...


----------



## up late

yeah some folks do.

that claim is marketing spiel imho. it's still a fine can tho.


----------



## Fririce0003

pearljam50000 said:


> lol
> You *really* hate the the HD800 don't you?
> But that's OK ,we all hear differently.
> Anyways i hope the Abyss is not much better than HD800 because i will never be able to afford it anyways haha, 5000$ is just too much(for me).
> You can buy speakers for that amount , that will blow your mind.




I wouldn't be quite so sure about a $5000 or even $10000 speaker system beating an abyss rig. My speaker rig is by no means endgame but it still isn't bad. Vienna Acoustic Klimt the Kiss speakers, Auralic Merak Mono's, Headamp GS-X as a pre or the pre out from the WA234 (very musical and detailed, but single ended) and the rest of the system the same as my headphone rig. I can earnestly say my speakers only see use when I'm cleaning my room or have people over, they can't touch the musicality and detail of the abyss. The only area they come close is imaging and they only have a slight edge in soundstage due to having a physical soundstage. 
 Keep in mind I also lived with the HD800 for 2 years before the abyss. While it throws a allude detailed soundstage it isn't natural comapred to speakers or live, it just seems etched and straining for the two. They still sound good, great given the price. But after hearing the abyss and upgrading to my speaker rig I could never go back. 
 But that's just me personally. For me, compare to speakers the price of an abyss rig is a steal!


----------



## deuter

fririce0003 said:


> I wouldn't be quite so sure about a $5000 or even $10000 speaker system beating an abyss rig. My speaker rig is by no means endgame but it still isn't bad. Vienna Acoustic Klimt the Kiss speakers, Auralic Merak Mono's, Headamp GS-X as a pre or the pre out from the WA234 (very musical and detailed, but single ended) and the rest of the system the same as my headphone rig. I can earnestly say my speakers only see use when I'm cleaning my room or have people over, they can't touch the musicality and detail of the abyss. The only area they come close is imaging and they only have a slight edge in soundstage due to having a physical soundstage.
> Keep in mind I also lived with the HD800 for 2 years before the abyss. While it throws a allude detailed soundstage it isn't natural comapred to speakers or live, it just seems etched and straining for the two. They still sound good, great given the price. But after hearing the abyss and upgrading to my speaker rig I could never go back.
> But that's just me personally. For me, compare to speakers the price of an abyss rig is a steal!




Speakers is also a lifestyle thing, my wife would hate me if I sit with headphones on all day.


----------



## wink

Quote:mulder01 





> But the Abyss _does_ sound realistic - it's just that the detail isn't shoved down your throat.  I would liken the experience to putting on a pair of glasses and not realising you had bad eyes until just now - all the detail that you never noticed before is now there, but it's presented to you in a nice seamless way so that you can enjoy and appreciate it.
> 
> Imagine you are sitting in a park, birds chirping, kids playing, dogs running around, joggers going by, then a maintenance guy goes past with a lawnmower.  On the Abyss, the lawnmower going past sounds like a lawnmower going past.  On the HD800, there is a crazy person that comes up behind you, puts your arms behind your back, puts his other hand around the back of your neck, and pushes your head right next to the lawnmower motor and yells at you "See!  It's a lawnmower! Do you hear it!  Sounds like a lawnmower, hey?!"  and I'm like yes, I know, this doesn't make it any better, please let me go.


 
 On a good system the lawnmower sounds like it's revving flat out because that's what it's doing..
 With a more forgiving headphone in the same system the lawnmower sounds muted when it should be roaring as it cuts the grass just around where you're sitting.


----------



## mulder01

@Fririce0003 Those are some sexy lookin' speakers man!
  
@wink nah, the mower was _at least_ 10m away


----------



## Fririce0003

deuter said:


> Speakers is also a lifestyle thing, my wife would hate me if I sit with headphones on all day.




 Hahaha, very true. I have both the fortune and misfortune of not having a significant other. So headphones is a non issue for me. 
 Could get the wife a set of her own and try rig up a microphone feed to cross into the signal to enable conversation. 



mulder01 said:


> @Fririce0003
> Those are some sexy lookin' speakers man!
> 
> @wink
> nah, the mower was _at least_ 10m away




They are very nice to look at and nicely musical, not the end word in detail though. Pre amp choice made a large difference, GS-X is more analytical while the 234, so musical. I get as much weight and bass from the 234 and Kiss as I do with the GS-X, Kiss and JL Fathom F113. But the 234 is much more smooth and better integrated.


----------



## wink

Quote:mulder01 





> @wink nah, the mower was _at least_ 10m away


 
 Check your chewed up picnic rug.........


----------



## up late

don't see much point in comparing cans to speakers and vice versa. one is personal audio and the other isn't. and trying to justify spending over $5000 on cans by comparing them to speakers that cost around the same seems kinda silly to me for the same reason.

i've heard the abyss and was impressed. i've also heard some speakers costing about the same or a little less and was just as impressed. different strokes as they say.


----------



## mulder01

Yeah the speakers and headphone comparison is a little bit like apples and oranges.  However, they both play music and are both fruit respectively.  They're not the same but there are definitely similar qualities.
  
 Anyone have any CanJam impressions?  Favorite amp?  Vs the HE-1k maybe?


----------



## up late

sure - like comparing cars and motorcycles which perform a similar function in fundamentally different ways


----------



## isquirrel

Messed around with the Abyss getting the fit just right with a marathon 15 hour listening session yesterday. 
  
 I have been a vocal critic of the Abyss, my experience so far with them is that the fit is absolutely critical and its just not possible to get that right unless you are able to play with them over a month or so. I went from thinking there's not much bottom end to literally an overwhelming amount of bass performance by incrementally moving the ear pads away from my ears. Its a weird feeling because they just hang on your head just brushing your face.
  
 I highly doubt anyone at a show or even a store auction would get anyway close to getting a handle on the best fit for them and that would explain the disparity in the commentary about them. They are absolutely like a good pair of loudspeakers where placement is critical and that takes time in my experience.


----------



## up late

rubbish - i had no problems getting a good fit in store with the ear pads lightly touching my ears. there was ample bass but it wasn't overwhelming. there's no need to obsess over the fit of this can - just follow the manufacturer's recommendation.


----------



## rgs9200m

Has anyone tried a different cable on the abyss?


----------



## mulder01

isquirrel said:


> Messed around with the Abyss getting the fit just right with a marathon 15 hour listening session yesterday.
> 
> I have been a vocal critic of the Abyss, my experience so far with them is that the fit is absolutely critical and its just not possible to get that right unless you are able to play with them over a month or so. I went from thinking there's not much bottom end to literally an overwhelming amount of bass performance by incrementally moving the ear pads away from my ears. Its a weird feeling because they just hang on your head just brushing your face.
> 
> I highly doubt anyone at a show or even a store auction would get anyway close to getting a handle on the best fit for them and that would explain the disparity in the commentary about them. They are absolutely like a good pair of loudspeakers where placement is critical and that takes time in my experience.


 
  
  


up late said:


> rubbish - i had no problems getting a good fit in store with the ear pads lightly touching my ears. there was ample bass but it wasn't overwhelming. there's no need to obsess over the fit of this can - just follow the manufacturer's recommendation.


 
  
  
 I have to agree with isquirrel on this one.  I got mine to have a pretty nice gentle seal the whole way around my ear, and I can change the bass response quite a bit by adjusting them so there's a slight gap in front of my ears.  When I first got them, I had the gap mostly under my ears and that's a different sound again (I can't remember specifically how).  Sure, in the shop, nobody has an ideal fit and they still sound great, but when you have more time to play, and a quiet room, and have lived with them for a while, you realise you can tweak the sound a bit by adjusting the fit.  I would liken it to moving loudspeakers around a bit at the front of your room - the difference isn't night and day, but if you want to spend the time to fiddle around with it and tweak it to your liking, you can.


----------



## up late

you can change the sound of any can by adjusting its position but to say that it's unlikely that anyone will achieve the optimal fit without weeks of experimentation is ridiculous imo. surely it can't be that hard and i doubt that the manufacturer designed it to be. when i tried it the sales guy told me to have the ear pads just touching my ears which i did. it was straightforward enough. there was no obvious imbalance in the sound. the can sounded great and i enjoyed the experience.


----------



## mulder01

I think the difference is that the Abyss has a rigid frame so it's more adjustable than most cans.  Just comes down to how fussy you are.  You may get 95% out of them right away which is perfectly acceptable for an audition, and 100% a few weeks later, so I suppose it depends on your definition of optimal too.


----------



## Yoga

up late said:


> you can change the sound of any can by adjusting its position but to say that it's unlikely that anyone will achieve the optimal fit without weeks of experimentation is ridiculous imo. surely it can't be that hard and i doubt that the manufacturer designed it to be. when i tried it the sales guy told me to have the ear pads just touching your ears which i did. it was straightforward enough and the can sounded great.


 
  
 If you don't own a pair, and hence have not had the time to try these tweaks yourself, your posts are simply conjecture. isquirrel's is from extended experience and critical listening.
  
 P.S. I have found the same. Over the last few weeks I've managed to find the optimal placement. Treble can can tweaked by rotating the cans in a forward/backward 'V' too. I quite enjoy that flexibility, one can tweak per album.
  
 After seeing some pics of people trying the Abyss at various meets, it's absolutely clear how poor some of the fitting is, which voids any semblance of accurate analysis.


----------



## up late

it would be conjecture if my opinion wasn't based on having auditioned the can


----------



## mulder01

I appreciate what you're saying, and like you, I thought they were great from the audition, but when you get your own pair home, you can get them just that little bit better.


----------



## up late

can't speak for anyone else but i'm confident that i achieved a good fit and spent some quality time with the abyss. 

obviously you get to know gear better once you own it but the purpose of an audition is to help you make a decision about ownership. so no i won't get to know the abyss as well as you but whether you hear it "just that little bit better" than i did at audition is debatable.


----------



## Yoga

The debate isn't whether you got a good fit. You ridiculed isquirrel on a matter you have no experience of; prolonged critical listening.


----------



## up late

you've made that the subject of the debate which i don't buy into. my posts relate to fit based on my own experience actually.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

What we've learned to do for shows is extend the headband full out, and let people know as soon as they put them on they were designed to float on your head, not clamp. That sets them in the mood to listen to them just like any other headphone without worrying about fit. Suppose we should make a simple sign with this...

Eric (ran the Abyss exhibit at recent SoCal CanJam) sent me pictures of the Abyss set-ups and I noticed the Wells booth pair had to be extended out. At meets and shows this has to be checked regularly as people tend to try by force of habit to get a seal.

Speaking of SoCal, excellent crowd who understand what they hear, or want to hear, and great company I could feel all the way to New York.








isquirrel said:


> Messed around with the Abyss getting the fit just right with a marathon 15 hour listening session yesterday.
> 
> I have been a vocal critic of the Abyss, my experience so far with them is that the fit is absolutely critical and its just not possible to get that right unless you are able to play with them over a month or so. I went from thinking there's not much bottom end to literally an overwhelming amount of bass performance by incrementally moving the ear pads away from my ears. Its a weird feeling because they just hang on your head just brushing your face.
> 
> I highly doubt anyone at a show or even a store auction would get anyway close to getting a handle on the best fit for them and that would explain the disparity in the commentary about them. They are absolutely like a good pair of loudspeakers where placement is critical and that takes time in my experience.


----------



## purrin

joe skubinski said:


> What we've learned to do for shows is extend the headband full out, and let people know as soon as they put them on they were designed to float on your head, not clamp. That sets them in the mood to listen to them just like any other headphone without worrying about fit. Suppose we should make a simple sign with this...
> 
> Eric (ran the Abyss exhibit at recent SoCal CanJam) sent me pictures of the Abyss set-ups and I noticed the Wells booth pair had to be extended out. At meets and shows this has to be checked regularly as people tend to try by force of habit to get a seal.


 
  
 Yup. I demonstrated to a few people how to pull / extend the headband full out before they listened. It's a "standard procedure" we take for granted that people who are not familiar with the headphone may not be aware.


----------



## up late

yep. thought it was pretty straightforward myself.


----------



## AnakChan

Guys, please drop this debate. It's off topic and unproductive to the thread. Enough has been said and it's time to move on please.


----------



## mulder01

Hey, it's purrin
 Do you have any photos or info you could share on your Abyss mods?


----------



## isquirrel

mulder01 said:


> Hey, it's purrin
> Do you have any photos or info you could share on your Abyss mods?


 

 +1 on that, not going to even bother responding to the other post, this is supposed to be a community after all.


----------



## Fririce0003

mulder01 said:


> Hey, it's purrin
> Do you have any photos or info you could share on your Abyss mods?




Sorry, may seem like a bit of a silly question, but was this in regards to how I've adjusted my headband to fit?


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> Sorry, may seem like a bit of a silly question, but was this in regards to how I've adjusted my headband to fit?




Matt,

There were a couple of CanJam SoCal posts that mentioned that Purrin & or Marv had modded their Abyss. Mulder & I were wondering what they were?

That's all


----------



## Fririce0003

Ok cool, didn't know it was purrin's set that was modded well then, +1. I'd certainly like to know about any possible abyss tweaks!


----------



## isquirrel

You could always adjust the headband.......


----------



## mulder01

isquirrel said:


> You could always adjust the headband.......


 
  
 lol, sweet mod dude...
  
 I watched an interview with purrin and Tyll on youtube yesterday and Tyll asked him what his favourite headphones were and he was just like "I dunno I don't really listen to headphones anymore"... So maybe the care factor just isn't there...


----------



## cladane

mulder01 said:


> lol, sweet mod dude...
> 
> I watched an interview with purrin and Tyll on youtube yesterday and Tyll asked him what his favourite headphones were and he was just like "I dunno I don't really listen to headphones anymore"... So maybe the care factor just isn't there...



Interesting IW. You see: headphones are intellectual hearing, speakers is physical experience (air motion, soundstage positioning, live presence,...). Human beings need real life. At some time, you go physical, you go speakers.


----------



## up late

i enjoy both but prefer speakers. they're just different modes of listening is all.


----------



## cladane

up late said:


> i enjoy both but prefer speakers. they're just different modes of listening is all.



Exactly the point. And Abyss marketing based on that fact: people prefer speakers so always comparing with. I agree: not bad substitute when place matters and living in crowded combos.


----------



## up late

some folks do prefer cans to speakers tho


----------



## isquirrel

cladane said:


> Interesting IW. You see: headphones are intellectual hearing, speakers is physical experience (air motion, soundstage positioning, live presence,...). Human beings need real life. At some time, you go physical, you go speakers.


 

 I have had plenty of physical experiences listening to speakers, my wife giving me another lecture on "proper listening levels" confiscating the remote control, Police getting called etc etc.


----------



## cladane

isquirrel said:


> I have had plenty of physical experiences listening to speakers, my wife giving me another lecture on "proper listening levels" confiscating the remote control, Police getting called etc etc.



Point taken. Exact circumstances when going down headphones makes sense. But Abyss aren't so quiet at all...


----------



## up late

but quieter than speakers no?


----------



## wink

Speakers are for those who can't handle headphones.


----------



## cladane

wink said:


> Speakers are for those who can't handle headphones.



Not false and I own the two setups depending of mood like using my Fitear C435, fine audio Japan art !! Multiple choices from great audiophile manufacturers from all around the world. Wonderful times.


----------



## mulder01

They're obviously comparing_ sound quality_ with high end speakers, not claiming that the abyss fills the room with sound or has bass that can rattle your chair.  Obviously cans and speakers are a different listening experience, but the quality of the sound coming out of the abyss is, generally speaking, much better than similarly priced speakers, neglecting the physical impact and feeling of sound filling the room.  If you can't live without that physicality, then NO headphones are for you, but the Abyss is probably as close as you'll get to high end speakers as far as personal audio goes


----------



## doyouknowSBmean

mulder01 said:


> They're obviously comparing_ sound quality_ with high end speakers, not claiming that the abyss fills the room with sound or has bass that can rattle your chair.  Obviously cans and speakers are a different listening experience, but the quality of the sound coming out of the abyss is, generally speaking, much better than similarly priced speakers, neglecting the physical impact and feeling of sound filling the room.  If you can't live without that physicality, then NO headphones are for you, but the Abyss is probably as close as you'll get to high end speakers as far as personal audio goes


 
 Same as my experience with Abyss here. But Orpheus is more like sitting in a concert hall while Abyss is like listening to $2000k speaker system


----------



## up late

@mulder01 - it all comes down to personal opinion and i still don't see much point in comparing cans to speakers. i think the abyss is a great can but i honestly don't rate it any more highly than some speakers i've heard costing between 4 and 5k - just saying.


----------



## isquirrel

up late said:


> @mulder01 - it all comes down to personal opinion and i still don't see much point in comparing cans to speakers. i think the abyss is a great can but i honestly don't rate it any more highly than some speakers i've heard costing between 4 and 5k - just saying.


 

 Lets move on, this is Head-Fi we all understand the different experiences to be had from both.


----------



## up late

just having a civil discussion man - no need to moderate


----------



## mulder01

up late - I don't think "just as gooder sound as speakers of the same price" would be the best advertisement.  Though I think you're part of a minority with that opinion - almost every other post I can recall has claimed they're at least as good as 5 figure speakers   _sound quality wise._ (possibly not 6 figures because how many people on head-fi would have a reasonable amount of experience with 6 figure speakers - not me)


----------



## up late

it's just my honest opinion and i don't mind being in the minority. not owning the abyss means that i don't feel a need to justify its price/performance to anyone - including myself.


----------



## Fririce0003

up late said:


> it's just my honest opinion and i don't mind being in the minority. not owning the abyss means that i don't feel a need to justify its price/performance to anyone.




Fair enough, though I don't think its a case of justifying the price. More believing the price is worth it for what we got. I mean we're not the ones selling the product after all  That's just how I see it anyway 



mulder01 said:


> up late - I don't think "just as gooder sound as speakers of the same price" would be the best advertisement.  Though I think you're part of a minority with that opinion - almost every other post I can recall has claimed they're at least as good as 5 figure speakers   _sound quality wise._ (possibly not 6 figures because how many people on head-fi would have a reasonable amount of experience with 6 figure speakers - not me)



 Hahaha, I don't think I'd mind a high end company describing their product as "gooder" sometimes you get tired of their artistic spiels about their product and likening them to running through a field of flowers 
 But I do agree me personally l, I prefer the abyss to my 5 figure speakers, though I don't yet have a dedicated room. In terms of 6 figure speakers and a system and room to match I'd say the most qualified person in Australia would be Isquirrel, though there aren't many threads quite as welcoming as the woo thread 
 But back on topic, does anyone have any suggestions for after market cables? I've been tossing up between getting the DHC compliment or spore in either silver, copper or a combination of both. It's a bit hard to tell which way to go though, with the abyss cables being an aluminium alloy based conductor. Wouldn't mind a way to slightly tweak the final sound depending on my mood


----------



## up late

fririce0003 said:


> Fair enough, though I don't think its a case of justifying the price. More believing the price is worth it for what we got. I mean we're not the ones selling the product after all  That's just how I see it anyway




dunno. claiming that your cans sound better than more expensive speakers based on marketing spiel and other folks opinions looks like self-justification to me especially if you haven't compared them for yourself. 

anyways it's good that you don't see it that way. this is the high-end so these kind of price/performance comparisons should be beneath you guys.


----------



## Fririce0003

up late said:


> dunno. claiming that your cans sound better than more expensive speakers based on marketing spiel and other folks opinions looks like self-justification to me especially if you haven't compared them for yourself.
> 
> anyways it's good that you don't see it that way. this is the high-end so these kind of price/performance comparisons should be beneath you guys.




 Oh but it is based off my own opinion, and these speakers... Sorry for the crappy phone pics and disregard the anime figures between. Hahaha 

Vienna Acoustic Klimt the Kiss, a decent amount more than the Abyss. They do throw a larger soundstage, but that's due to it being a physical one. Even with the F113 sub I don't get as much bass quantity nor punch. If I turned the volume up so I did, I'd be deaf after a couple hours  Oh and my walls would probably be missing the cornices and architraves 
 But in terms of sheer detail, convenience, musicality and enjoyment I prefer the abyss. Which is also shown in the hours they get compared to my speakers. 
 But again that's just me, now happy listening all


----------



## mulder01

up late said:


> dunno. claiming that your cans sound better than more expensive speakers based on marketing spiel and other folks opinions looks like self-justification to me especially if you haven't compared them for yourself.
> 
> anyways it's good that you don't see it that way. this is the high-end so these kind of price/performance comparisons should be beneath you guys.


 
  
 I don't have to try and justify the cost of the Abyss to myself because obviously I already willingly handed over the $, but I like to share my views with others because I was in their exact position but changed my opinion.  Sometimes it's just a matter of perspective.  I explained my thoughts - as you saw - over in the HE1000 thread a little while ago and got 9 reputations for it (which is probably one of the highest rated comments I can think of that's not a product announcement or review) so I feel like it's pretty valid.  As I like to say to anyone thinking of spending a fair chunk of money on something "You only have to pay for it once, but you will enjoy it for years"   When I listen to the abyss now, I just think "man, these sound awesome" not "man, these sound awesome BUT JEEZ THE RRP IS HIGH"
  
 Other thing that annoys me is that people will buy dacs and amps costing the same amount and nobody bats an eyelid, but spend the same amount on headphones and everybody blows up about it for some reason even though they are (arguably) the most important part of the chain.  Perhaps, if, like dacs, the market was flooded with dozens of $5k headphones and ranged up to well into five figures, there wouldn't be as much outrage.  Who knows.  Sorry for the rant...
  
  
 In terms of aftermarket cables, I found it interesting that the Abyss comes with a note in the box specifically saying to only use the stock cables.  I know Audeze in particular, half the photos they post have aftermarket cables made by someone else.  Clearly 2 very different views on the matter.


----------



## Fririce0003

mulder01 said:


> I don't have to try and justify the cost of the Abyss to myself because obviously I already willingly handed over the $, but I like to share my views with others because I was in their exact position but changed my opinion.  Sometimes it's just a matter of perspective.  I explained my thoughts - as you saw - over in the HE1000 thread a little while ago and got 9 reputations for it (which is probably one of the highest rated comments I can think of that's not a product announcement or review) so I feel like it's pretty valid.  As I like to say to anyone thinking of spending a fair chunk of money on something "You only have to pay for it once, but you will enjoy it for years"   When I listen to the abyss now, I just think "man, these sound awesome" not "man, these sound awesome BUT JEEZ THE RRP IS HIGH"
> 
> Other thing that annoys me is that people will buy dacs and amps costing the same amount and nobody bats an eyelid, but spend the same amount on headphones and everybody blows up about it for some reason even though they are (arguably) the most important part of the chain.  Perhaps, if, like dacs, the market was flooded with dozens of $5k headphones and ranged up to well into five figures, there wouldn't be as much outrage.  Who knows.  Sorry for the rant...
> 
> ...




Hmm I didn't actually notice that note :S I think it might've been due to being able to plug audeze cables into it since the 4pin female of the audeze cables will still connect into the 3 pin male of the abyss. I metered out the cables and plunging an audeze cable in would've shorted out the amp. 
 I'm happy with the current cables, but there's always that little but in the back of the mind thinking what if. Ah well guess I'll just save up for now.


----------



## up late

@fririce0003 - wasn't referring to you actually.  but like i keep saying i don't see much sense in comparing cans to speakers coz they serve music in uniquely different ways. 

also, if abyss owners believe that it is worth every penny they paid for it then i don't know why they would feel the need to try and justify/validate its price to others by comparing it to speakers on a price/performance basis.


----------



## up late

mulder01 said:


> I don't have to try and justify the cost of the Abyss to myself because obviously I already willingly handed over the $, but I like to share my views with others because I was in their exact position but changed my opinion.




but your posts comparing the abyss to speakers costing the same or more look a lot like attempts to justify its high price to others tbh, even if you don't need to rationalise it for yourself.


----------



## mulder01

I'm giving my opinion.  If someone says a dac that cost $5k is as good as some other dacs that cost $10k or $15k, does that mean that they are trying to justify spending $5k on a dac or is it merely a guide as to the quality of the product.  I would say they latter but clearly there is a fine line.  Again, a matter of perspective.


----------



## up late

think that's different to what you've been saying coz you keep referring to the manufacturer's claim and the opinions of others. now if you've compared the abyss to similarly priced speakers and come to that conclusion then fine but you haven't actually said that.

gotta say that i find price/performance comparisons of hi fi gear kinda meaningless


----------



## wink

You get people who say that their (say) Grado SR60 is as good as a (say) Sennheiser HD800.
  
 The them it may well be. If they're honest it could because the're tone deaf, or not very experienced in critical listening.
  
 It could be because they're not interested in high fidelity and any noise that even remotely resembles the sound that should be reproduced is good enough.
  
 It may be that the vast difference in between the 2 headphones was detected, but the person didn't want to get sucked into a discussion because he was happy with his SR60, or he didn't want to spring for a HD800.
  
 Same goes for cans vs speakers.
  
 To each, their own - and viva la differance.
  
 btw, I am waiting for AtoA to take over Hifi trader here in Sydney so I can waltz down and try an Abyss. If they don't have one, a black hole will do.... I jest.


----------



## mulder01

Pretty sure I mentioned that the Abyss is a fair way better than the $4.6k speakers I used to own - and I picked those speakers over a $6.5k pair of speakers I was originally there to audition...
  
 At the audio show I went to a little while ago where I bought the Abyss, there was mainly speakers on show.  After hearing the Abyss, I walked out of plenty of hotel rooms seriously underwhelmed at what would have been flagship (or close to flagship) speakers from a number of different manufacturers.  The only rooms I walked into where I thought the sound was in the vicinity of the Abyss, I could tell just by looking at them that they would be megabuck speakers.  When the only thing in front of you is monstrous impressive looking masterpieces with monoblocks next to them that look like they weigh more than a person and cables that probably cost as much as a car, I think it's safe to say that those speakers were quite a lot more than $5k.  I did walk into one room that had probably the best sound at the show (based on a couple of minute impression in each room) and it had all the source and amp gear behind a roped off area with a security guard standing next to it.  I overheard a salesman talking to someone and heard him say something about a hundred thousand bucks and I walked back out.  To be honest it's probably only after hearing what I heard come out of numerous high end speaker setups that day that I went back downstairs and felt like I was getting a relative bargain by purchasing the Abyss.  
  
 Of course, YMMV.


----------



## up late

don't remember seeing that in the recent discussion but nvm. anyways looks like we have very different views based on our experiences. so yeah, not so much our mileage varying but more like a fork in the road.


----------



## up late

wink said:


> You get people who say that their (say) Grado SR60 is as good as a (say) Sennheiser HD800.
> 
> The them it may well be. If they're honest it could because the're tone deaf, or not very experienced in critical listening.
> 
> ...




don't think that applies here tbh


----------



## mulder01

up late said:


> don't remember seeing that in the recent discussion but nvm. anyways looks like we have very different views based on our experiences. so yeah, not so much our mileage varying but more like a fork in the road.


 
  
 haha, word.
  
 Maybe I said that stuff in a different thread to a different speaker nut 
  
 I guess I'm more easily sold on the headphone idea because I came from speakers to headphones.  If you grew up with headphones all the time, then got your own house with a dedicated room I could definitely see why speakers would be more appealing.  And I actually got into home audio because before that I loved my car audio but ended up getting a work vehicle and didn't need my own car anymore.  Maybe in a few years I'll be all about CIEMs telling you you can buy a $2k CIEM that sounds just as good as $5k speakers   I'll be sure to shoot you a PM if that happens.  Keep you in the loop.


----------



## up late

thanks but i'm good


----------



## wink

Good is a relative term and needs a standard to be referred to.


----------



## up late

"good" as in politely decline. not "good" as in "it's a good thing you use emoticons wink".


----------



## Yoga




----------



## wink

I get emotional


----------



## cladane

Reading many different opinions in this thread makes me say that speakers and headphones are not the same way to hear at music thus not allowing direct comparison. Different structures, electronic filters, amplifier designs, spatiality (height for ex), physical sensations,....
The quiproquo has been installed by the manufacturer marketing obviously yielding Abyss $100000 speakers worth. Has it a problem justifying the 6000€ cost per se ? JPSLabs is a cable company. Did the owners suffer not being speakers manufacturers? Some Magico syndroma ? Wondering...


----------



## wink

Nope, they musta got lucky and nailed their first venture into headphones.
  
 Of course all good luck is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.


----------



## up late

wink said:


> I get emotional




it's ok to emote bro


----------



## agooh

*I heard Abyss and Lcd 3 F at the same time. If you want to enjoy your music skip the black beast and try lcd 3 F.* . *it's better for my taste .*
*I use both with Hugo TT .*


----------



## wink

Quote:agooh 





> *I heard Abyss and Lcd 3 F at the same time. If you want to enjoy your music skip the black beast and try lcd 3 F.* . *it's better for my taste .*
> *I use both with Hugo TT .*


 
 Please, cut the bolded type.
 It does not make your posts factual nor credible.


----------



## Yoga

agooh said:


> *I heard Abyss and Lcd 3 F at the same time. If you want to enjoy your music skip the black beast and try lcd 3 F.* . *it's better for my taste .*
> *I use both with Hugo TT .*


 

 I had them both for extended listening and found the opposite, the 3F was weaker in all respects bar the euphoria of the mids, in which it beat the Abyss. The overall Abyss experience was still levels above for my tastes. The Abyss with the Moon 430 however eclipses even the 3F for euphoria, along with all of the other improvements, that to me, were _well _worth the additional outlay.
  
 Happy days indeed :¬) 
  
*P.S. Character styles are useful to emphasise certain words within a sentence. They don't make a statement an authoritative one.*


----------



## agooh

yoga said:


> I had them both for extended listening and found the opposite, the 3F was weaker in all respects bar the euphoria of the mids, in which it beat the Abyss. The overall Abyss experience was still levels above for my tastes. The Abyss with the Moon 430 however eclipses even the 3F for euphoria, along with all of the other improvements that to me, were worth the additional outlay.
> 
> Happy days indeed :¬)
> 
> *P.S. Character styles are useful to emphasise certain words within a sentence. They don't make a statement an authoritative one.*


 
*well I have to disagree here , cause the mids in lcd 3f is better by a huge margin ** émotion vocals is very very important which Abyss failed tohave that magic ** and this make Abyss mids looks like any other headphones .*

*bass in lcd 3 f also better hit hard and leave you in shocking mod while in Abyss still good but not perfect no emotion here too . so Lcd 3 fazor win for the price and the sound and more comfy .*


----------



## Yoga

agooh said:


> well I have to disagree here , cause the mids in lcd 3f is better by a huge margin ** émotion vocals is very very important which Abyss failed tohave that magic ** and this make Abyss mids looks like any other headphones .
> 
> bass in lcd 3 f also better hit hard and leave you in shocking mod while in Abyss still good but not perfect no emotion here too . so Lcd 3 fazor win for the price and the sound and more comfy .


 

 3F has better *bass*?
  
 Discussion ends here - enjoy your 3F :¬)


----------



## agooh

yoga said:


> 3F has better *bass*?
> 
> Discussion ends here - enjoy your 3F :¬)


 
*let me gives why bass is better : The LCD-3 had slightly better bass response and neutrality than the AB-1266 tyll said and I agree and noticed that after listening to them for long time .*
  
*also forgiving and smoothness in Lcd3 F' treble beat Abyss again in this area .*
  
*And hear is gift from tyll : The second fault I found much more problematic. High frequency information was lightning quick and articulate, but was accompanied by a haze of low level, high frequency noise in the 10kHz area*
  
*Second fault in headphones cost 5000 $ .*


----------



## mulder01

*PHWOAR! LOOK HOW IMPORTANT MY OPINION IS!*
  
 Cut it out
  
 I honestly don't get the fuss about the LCD3's bass.  I thought the bass of the LCDX was better, and the bass of the Abyss was better again.  I will agree with you about the comfort though - the Audezes are pretty nice to wear.  I love the overly thick padding - it feels like luxury on your face.  The LCDs are a great can and would be my second choice after the Abyss, but yeah, second choice.
  
 I get the feeling from what you're saying that you've let Tyll's reviews sway you a little bit.  I feel like you would have read "High frequency information was lightning quick and articulate, but was accompanied by a haze of low level, high frequency noise in the 10kHz area..." Then listened to it and went "oh yeah, I can hear that..."


----------



## preproman

mulder01 said:


> I feel like you would have read "High frequency information was lightning quick and articulate, but was accompanied by a haze of low level, high frequency noise in the 10kHz area..." Then listened to it and went "oh yeah, I can hear that..."


 
  
  
 You'll find that a lot around here.  Most people will read others impressions / reviews on things, listen to the headphone / amp / dac just to say they heard it - then only to regurgitate what the most popular person has said.


----------



## up late

only spent a short time with the lcd-3 coz it was disappointing. the abyss made a positive impression.


----------



## Yoga

Same. I compared the Abyss, 3F (the set I had 'intended' to keep) and the X.
  
 X, Hugo, Conductor, Ragnarok - too neutral/analytical for my tastes, great defined tight bass, nice soundstage. I can see why people love this headphone, but not for me personally.
  
 3F, Hugo, Conductor, Ragnarok - wonderfully musical and engaging, less accurate / more bloomy bass (which can be mistaken as _deeper_), smaller soundstage. I adore the 3F. It's an amazing headphone for the money and I was over the moon with it. Until...
  
 Abyss, Hugo, Conductor, Ragnarok - below my optimal musicality, but above the minimum analytical, but with (literally) incredible bass, great soundstage and imaging. Music took on a whole new listening dimension, which was the most important factor in my own decision.
  
 Abyss with the Moon 430 - musicality is back with a vengeance. Better everything. I'd like to hear the 3F and X on this amp again actually. And the HE1K.
  
 I do wonder what adding the Yggy to this setup would accomplish. Very exciting indeed.
  
 YMMV :¬)
  
 Edit: 10K Tyll thing - when I listen to music now, I'm not thinking 'hiss in the 10K region, zomg!', I'm not thinking. I'm _feeling_. Goosebumps, usually


----------



## up late

don't think that the audeze house sound is for me coz i didn't care for the lcd-2 either


----------



## agooh

mulder01 said:


> *PHWOAR! LOOK HOW IMPORTANT MY OPINION IS!*
> 
> Cut it out
> 
> ...


 
*Nope you are mistaken , I own them and I have to say tyll is right , the Abyss can't compete against lcd 3 Fazor for enjoyment listening .it's true but you can't say that cause you lost your money in a headphones and you didn't like to see her lose against other cheaper headphones .  but not with me , I speak facts. I own them both for long time, I change my mind after 1 months of using them due to the treble and uncomfy metal. I still believe mids make the magic in music .*
  
*And don't judge me again .I'm man with his own experience . I only read and learn every day . but I believe what's it true after trying them for at least 1 months .*


----------



## wink

Quote:agooh 





> Nope you are mistaken , I own them and I have to say tyll is right , the Abyss can't compete against lcd 3 Fazor for enjoyment listening .it's true but you can't say that cause you lost your money in a headphones and you didn't like to see her lose against other cheaper headphones .  but not with me , I speak facts. I own them both for long time, I change my mind after 1 months of using them due to the treble and uncomfy metal. I still believe mids make the magic in music .
> 
> And don't judge me again .I'm man with his own experience . I only read and learn every day . but I believe what's it true after trying them for at least 1 months .


 
 Now, that's more like it.....


----------



## mulder01

That's fair enough, you're allowed to prefer the lcd3, but that's your opinion, not facts.  Nobody is right or wrong.  I only bought the Abyss after listening to it and a bunch of other flagships a few times - I liked the Abyss the most so I bought it.  You like the lcd3 better, some people like the HD800 better.  Just because you and Tyll think something doesn't make it a fact.  *Not even writing it in bold makes it a fact. *


----------



## preproman

agooh said:


>





> * I still believe mids make the magic in music .*


 
  
 Well, that's about the best thing you've said all day.  I agree with you 100%  especially when it comes to female vocals. 
  


yoga said:


> Abyss with the Moon 430 - musicality is back with a vengeance. Better everything. I'd like to hear the 3F and X on this amp again actually. And the HE1K.


 
  
 The 3F paird with the Conductor / Hugo maynot be the best pairing, I don't know - never heard it.  However, the 3F does come alive with an amp that's able to grab them by their balls..  She will sing then, and tighten up on the bass as well.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

agooh said:


> *And hear is gift from tyll : The second fault I found much more problematic. High frequency information was lightning quick and articulate, but was accompanied by a haze of low level, high frequency noise in the 10kHz area*


 
  
 Just wanted to clear a little something up: The Abyss I heard was a very early unit and had a wrinkled diaphragm. That review, and especially that statement, is likely not indicative of current production units.


----------



## Yoga

tyll hertsens said:


> Just wanted to clear a little something up: The Abyss I heard was a very early unit and had a wrinkled diaphragm. That review, and especially that statement, is likely not indicative of current production units.


 
  
 Thanks for clarifying. Would love to hear your thoughts with a production pair.
  


preproman said:


> The 3F paird with the Conductor / Hugo maynot be the best pairing, I don't know - never heard it.  However, the 3F does come alive with an amp that's able to grab them by their balls..  She will sing then, and tighten up on the bass as well.


 
  
 They were tested using the Ragnarok too, forgot to add that amp to the list (updated the post). Thanks for the prompt.
  
 The 3F do enjoy extra power. I ran them with Toxic Silver Widow cables - very nice.


----------



## agooh

yoga said:


> Thanks for clarifying. Would love to hear your thoughts with a production pair.
> 
> 
> They were tested using the Ragnarok too, forgot to add that amp to the list (updated the post). Thanks for the prompt.
> ...


 

 yes Thanks for clarifying ,but the problem still even in my new Abyss, so the statement are still a live until they do something about it . I sold my units to my neighbor .She will pay me every months since it's very expensive . I hope she can enjoy them. END


----------



## Trance_Gott

tyll hertsens said:


> Just wanted to clear a little something up: The Abyss I heard was a very early unit and had a wrinkled diaphragm. That review, and especially that statement, is likely not indicative of current production units.


 
  
 Hello Tyll,
  
 thank you for clarification! Do you plan to make a new review?


----------



## pearljam50000

agooh said:


> yes Thanks for clarifying ,but the problem still even in my new Abyss, so the statement are still a live until they do something about it . I sold my units to my neighbor .She will pay me every months since it's very expensive . I hope she can enjoy them. END


 
 Can you do a comparison of Abyss with HD800?
 Thanks.


----------



## agooh

pearljam50000 said:


> Can you do a comparison of Abyss with HD800?
> Thanks.


 
 yes sure in short way hd800 bigger sound stage with light controlled bass ,detail,analytical sound,clear and resolving.
 while abyss has big 3d sound stage ,same detail ,bass quantity and quality best than any headphones in this regard ( but for me lcd3 f still better ), dynamic range is really amazing, nimble fast instruments sound,  abyss win for enjoyment music and for life , if you can get them for 3000 $ or less, your road to hi fi headphones comes to an end .
 comfortable factor goes to hd 800 since it's lighter and use alcantara pads .


----------



## mulder01

agooh said:


> yes Thanks for clarifying ,but the problem still even in my new Abyss, so the statement are still a live until they do something about it . I sold my units to my neighbor .She will pay me every months since it's very expensive . I hope she can enjoy them. END


 
  
 As Tyll just said, the issue was only present in the early pair that he reviewed.  
  
 I guess the fact that your neighbor bought your Abyss off you means that she preferred it over your lcd3f too?  So you can see that some people prefer different things to you.
  
  
 lol I thought you were trolling this thread until I looked at your posts over on the HD800 thread.  haha I think you hate that thing more than I do


----------



## up late

candid views and robust debate isn't trolling. it's a shame folks have to resort to using the term when they don't like or agree with what someone else is saying.


----------



## mulder01

Once again, I respectfully disagree   He's purposely going around to every thread of headphones he doesn't love an bagging the crap out of them.  Saying sorry you are wrong you bought the wrong headphones, X headphone is the better than yours etc etc. He is absolutely entitled to his opinion and I agree with some things he says, but there's definitely _some_ degree of trolling intended.


----------



## up late

wasn't referring to him specifically.  more of a general comment.


----------



## icebear

There is always the block member button - which reduces your stress level significantly. I also used it already a couple of times and some folks are just not worth a reply even less a reasoned discussion. Just click the button and be happy


----------



## up late

good advice


----------



## yates7592

Just reading this quite complimentary Abyss review:
 http://www.kitguru.net/site-news/highlights/zardon/abyss-1266-headphone-review/all/1/
  
 The reviewer has compared Abyss vs HD800, HE6, LCD3, Stax-009, R10, Grado. But in the comp, he has used Cavalli LAu amp with Abyss, LCD3 and HE6, but HDVD800 amp with HD800. I suspect most people would judge Cavalli LAu to be ahead of HDVD800 when paired with HD800. Nevertheless in this test HD800 still seems to edge soundstage width/depth, but Abyss is judged way out in front on bass weight and dynamics.  I wonder if the conclusions might have been different if HD800 had also been powered by Cavalli LAu?


----------



## mulder01

Hard to know, Sennheiser specifically designed that amp as the perfect match for that headphone, so you can't exactly call it a bad pairing.  I remember in Jude's review video of the Lau that he mentioned that maybe it's not the best choice of amp for the HD800?
  
 Will have to give it a read


----------



## deuter

mulder01 said:


> Hard to know, Sennheiser specifically designed that amp as the perfect match for that headphone, so you can't exactly call it a bad pairing.  I remember in Jude's review video of the Lau that he mentioned that maybe it's not the best choice of amp for the HD800?
> 
> Will have to give it a read





All these totl headphones are just different flavours of each other. I really enjoy the hd800 but currently loving some Patricia Barber on the PS1000.


----------



## Fririce0003

deuter said:


> All these totl headphones are just different flavours of each other. I really enjoy the hd800 but currently loving some Patricia Barber on the PS1000.




A very true statement, different flavours and even different purposes depending on fit and listening environments.
 The hd800 and PS1000 really do complement each other well. Had the very same before getting the abyss. But the abyss sound was exactly what I was after from my music so the other two didn't get much use afterwards. On thing that I did especially like about the PS1000 was rock and drums, I remember the first time I listened to pearljam's binaural album with them. Truely magical. 
 They were my first proper venture into head fi so I couldn't get rid of them, ended up giving them to my father for his birthday. So I can always drop by for a listen if I'm feeling nostalgic


----------



## up late

did you compare them?


----------



## Fririce0003

up late said:


> did you compare them?




....No, I didn't compare them despite owning and having had them in my possession both before and a after purchasing the abyss.....

Sorry I couldn't help a little sarcasm there, all in good fun 
 Wouldn't have bought the abyss without comparing it to what I originally had. Spending that cash without being informed would be fairly silly, especially since I had the chance to audition and compare side by side


----------



## up late

sorry i asked


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

trance_gott said:


> Hello Tyll,
> 
> thank you for clarification! Do you plan to make a new review?


 
  
 Someday. I've asked Joe numerous times for another pair to review, but haven't gotten one yet.


----------



## up late

how about it joe?


----------



## Faddius

yates7592 said:


> The reviewer has compared Abyss vs HD800, HE6, LCD3, Stax-009, R10, Grado... But in the comp, he has used Cavalli LAu amp with Abyss, LCD3 and HE6, but HDVD800 amp with HD800. ... Nevertheless in this test HD800 still seems to edge soundstage width/depth, but Abyss is judged way out in front on bass weight and dynamics.  I wonder if the conclusions might have been different if HD800 had also been powered by Cavalli LAu?


 
  
 I use the HD800s and Abyss with the LAu. I'd still agree that the HD800 has more technical ability to project image around the soundstage however the Abyss is (way) more natural and deeper.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Cool. 
Living with the AB-1266 for more than a few hours is highly recommended, as is trying the highest resolution source possible...?




up late said:


> dunno. claiming that your cans sound better than more expensive speakers based on marketing spiel and other folks opinions looks like self-justification to me especially if you haven't compared them for yourself.





up late said:


> how about it joe?


----------



## up late

would lurv to spend more time with the abyss but an audition will have to do.  it was hooked up to a high-end luxman rig and i was using the lossless tracks that i use regularly for critical listening.


----------



## Trance_Gott

tyll hertsens said:


> Someday. I've asked Joe numerous times for another pair to review, but haven't gotten one yet.


 
  
 Joe, do you want to send Tyll an another pair to review? I hope so.


----------



## isquirrel

icebear said:


> There is always the block member button - which reduces your stress level significantly. I also used it already a couple of times and some folks are just not worth a reply even less a reasoned discussion. Just click the button and be happy


 

 Excellent didn't know that, thanks


----------



## cladane

trance_gott said:


> Joe, do you want to send Tyll an another pair to review? I hope so.



Why soliciting reviewers ? Those cans sell by themselves.


----------



## buson160man

up late said:


> don't think that the audeze house sound is for me coz i didn't care for the lcd-2 either


 
     I originally was disappointed in my older lcd2s. The soundstage was flat and with a two dimensional presentation . I also felt the sound while smooth was lacking in clarity to some extant. But a few months ago I purchased a cable pro reverie upgrade cable for the audezes . I opted for the furutech 1/4 inch plug because I do not have a balanced amp . Well in light of the cable change there has definitely been a remarkable transformation in the sound of my lcd 2.2 .
     There is most definitely a soundstage and there is dimensionality as well. My lcd 2.2 now has a clarity that I have never heard from them before . Things sound much more natural and there is a absolutely lovely midrange with the new cable. Cds have a much more beautiful sound that is utterly beguiling.
      I feel the bad rap that the lcd2s sometimes gets is purely due to the substandard cable that audeze provides with their audeze headphones. The addition of the cable pro reverie headphone cable has ameliorated any misgivings that I had about my lcd2.2s .
      While the cable is not cheap at the better half of 700 usd it has transformed my lcd2.2 to the headphone I had originally hoped they would have been when I bought them.
 I have not heard the lcd-3 or x for a period of time that would let me judge their sound quality so I can not compare it to what my lcd2.2s sound but I can not imagine them being much better with the stock cable then what my lcd2.2s sound like with my cable pro reverie headphone cable.
    I think the audeze house sound you mentioned is probably due to the substandard stock headphone cable that audeze provides with their headphones. There definitely is a transformation in sound quality with the addition of at least the reverie headphone cable.
 For what it is worth  I use a burson ha-160 amp with a fuse upgrade to the hifi tuning supreme fuse. I use a harmonic tech ac-11 power cable on my burson. I also split time headphone time with a restored vintage receiver circa late 1970s . The montster concept 16.5 receiver which has upgraded fuses as well this time being two isoclean 7 amp fuses. This receiver is a real beast and is tremendously powerful sounding with headphones.


----------



## Yoga

buson160man said:


> I originally was disappointed in my older lcd2s. The soundstage was flat and with a two dimensional presentation . I also felt the sound while smooth was lacking in clarity to some extant. But a few months ago I purchased a cable pro reverie upgrade cable for the audezes . I opted for the furutech 1/4 inch plug because I do not have a balanced amp . Well in light of the cable change there has definitely been a remarkable transformation in the sound of my lcd 2.2 .
> There is most definitely a soundstage and there is dimensionality as well. My lcd 2.2 now has a clarity that I have never heard from them before . Things sound much more natural and there is a absolutely lovely midrange with the new cable. Cds have a much more beautiful sound that is utterly beguiling.
> I feel the bad rap that the lcd2s sometimes gets is purely due to the substandard cable that audeze provides with their audeze headphones. The addition of the cable pro reverie headphone cable has ameliorated any misgivings that I had about my lcd2.2s .
> While the cable is not cheap at the better half of 700 usd it has transformed my lcd2.2 to the headphone I had originally hoped they would have been when I bought them.
> ...


 

 I used the Toxic Widow Silver with my 2.2, 3F and X. Most certainly an upgrade in each case.


----------



## up late

cladane said:


> Why soliciting reviewers ? Those cans sell by themselves.




sure they can and are. but this is more about tyll giving the abyss a "fair hearing" in the sense that the first unit he reviewed and measured might have been defective.


----------



## cladane

up late said:


> sure they can and are. but this is more about tyll giving the abyss a "fair hearing" in the sense that the first unit he reviewed and measured might have been defective.



I agree with your point of view but this is business and freezing a 6000€ product for unnecessary retest why should be ?


----------



## Yoga

cladane said:


> I agree with your point of view but this is business and freezing a 6000€ product for unnecessary retest why should be ?


 

 I'm sure that review has put at _least_ one person off. Which means that 'freezing' one pair in order to get an updated (hopefully positive review) is a no brainer, considering the weight and influence that Tyll has in the industry.
  
 If it was my own product, getting the negative aspect of the review sorted would be a top priority.


----------



## up late

tyll would like the opportunity to review another production unit is all. no one's suggesting that jps labs should halt production in the meantime.


----------



## cladane

buson160man said:


> I originally was disappointed in my older lcd2s. The soundstage was flat and with a two dimensional presentation . I also felt the sound while smooth was lacking in clarity to some extant. But a few months ago I purchased a cable pro reverie upgrade cable for the audezes . I opted for the furutech 1/4 inch plug because I do not have a balanced amp . Well in light of the cable change there has definitely been a remarkable transformation in the sound of my lcd 2.2 .
> There is most definitely a soundstage and there is dimensionality as well. My lcd 2.2 now has a clarity that I have never heard from them before . Things sound much more natural and there is a absolutely lovely midrange with the new cable. Cds have a much more beautiful sound that is utterly beguiling.
> I feel the bad rap that the lcd2s sometimes gets is purely due to the substandard cable that audeze provides with their audeze headphones. The addition of the cable pro reverie headphone cable has ameliorated any misgivings that I had about my lcd2.2s .
> While the cable is not cheap at the better half of 700 usd it has transformed my lcd2.2 to the headphone I had originally hoped they would have been when I bought them.
> ...



JPSLabs is a cable company and you will notice that the total package includes Abyss cans and selected cables to reach a substantial price. Thus good business for a cable company and sound quality control by the manufacturer.


----------



## up late

yoga said:


> I'm sure that review has put at _least_ one person off. Which means that 'freezing' one pair in order to get an updated (hopefully positive review) is a no brainer, considering the weight and influence that Tyll has in the industry.
> 
> If it was my own product, getting the negative aspect of the review sorted would be a top priority.




x2


----------



## mulder01

Too bad if he doesn't like the new pair either 
If you lived in Brisbane Tyll you could listen to mine


----------



## cladane

mulder01 said:


> Too bad if he doesn't like the new pair either
> If you lived in Brisbane Tyll you could listen to mine



Point taken. What if Tyll didn't like the new pair ? Being the manufacturer perhaps I wouldn't throw the dices...


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> Too bad if he doesn't like the new pair either


 

 That was the crux of my point, although I didn't delve into it, many will wonder why not send over a working pair to re-test?
  
 Many non-owners will take a cynical stance on that action, not sending a pair could be interpreted as hiding something. I'm *not* saying Joe is (obviously, owning a pair myself), but for one of the world's most expensive headphones, even a slight sour-taste from a review (or lack of action) can be enough to ring the alarm bells.

 In the context of brand building / marketing, and the simplest example, compare the two sentences...

 1) "The treble noise complaint was due to reviewing a faulty fair. We won't send another set to him though, use your own ears and decide".

 2) "The treble noise complaint was due to reviewing a faulty fair. We'll send him a working set as you need to hear these badboys at their best!".

 They garner very different feelings. One invokes a _question_ (or in psychology terms, creates a potential problem) _- _"Why not send a working pair?". 
  
 The other offers a confident solution, an _answer_.

 Two *very* different results, and when considering investing thousands, such things become critical.


----------



## cladane

yoga said:


> That was the crux of my point, although I didn't delve into it, many will wonder why not send over a working pair to re-test?
> 
> Many non-owners will take a cynical stance on that action, not sending a pair could be interpreted as hiding something. I'm *not* saying Joe is (obviously, owning a pair myself), but for one of the world's most expensive headphones, even a slight sour-taste from a review (or lack of action) can be enough to ring the alarm bells.
> 
> ...



Good reasoning but still doesn't solve the question/problem: What if Tyll doesn't like the new pair ?? Being the manufacturer would you bet ?


----------



## mulder01

tbh, I watched his video review on youtube and I was like bah, you dunno - you like the HD800


----------



## Yoga

That's the point. He loved the set bar the fault. If you're scared to send a non faulty version to a reviewer, it asks the question, _why_.
  
 People want to see confidence in companies behind their product, not cowardice (not speaking about JPS here - this is ubiquitous in all procurement, in any market, with any product).


----------



## up late

alternatively he could get a pair from somewhere else and jps labs loses the opportunity to provide him with an optimal unit


----------



## up late

mulder01 said:


> tbh, I watched his video review on youtube and I was like bah, you dunno - you like the HD800




fanboy


----------



## mulder01

Well they are 2 very different sounds - one is my cup of tea and the other is not.  If the HD800 is your cup of tea, I'm not _that_ surprised if the Abyss isn't your favorite thing in the world.  But then again, some people love both.  I dunno.


----------



## up late

inside joke - kind of or so i thought - nvm

seriously tho, i think tyll tries to be as impartial as possible in his reviews while acknowledging his personal preferences and dislikes - if that makes sense.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Woah! Sorry, it appears I dropped a bit of a bomb in here inadvertently. The story with Joe and getting a second pair of headphones is a bit more complicated than I wanted to write down, and my short version seems to have given folks the idea that Joe was intentionally not sending me headphones.  That is not the case.  Joe and I have talked on a couple of occasions and he has an internal imperative to make sure I'm evaluating the headphone with appropriate gear. I've been open to hearing him out and using gear we both agree is optimal for the headphones....and it's just taking a long time for us to organize that.  It's also a thing that's hard for me to put on a front burner since I've already reviewed the cans and was fairly positive about them in the review. 
  
 Anyway, please don't read too much into the long delay.


----------



## Kiats

tyll hertsens said:


> Woah! Sorry, it appears I dropped a bit of a bomb in here inadvertently. The story with Joe and getting a second pair of headphones is a bit more complicated than I wanted to write down, and my short version seems to have given folks the idea that Joe was intentionally not sending me headphones.  That is not the case.  Joe and I have talked on a couple of occasions and he has an internal imperative to make sure I'm evaluating the headphone with appropriate gear. I've been open to hearing him out and using gear we both agree is optimal for the headphones....and it's just taking a long time for us to organize that.  It's also a thing that's hard for me to put on a front burner since I've already reviewed the cans and was fairly positive about them in the review.
> 
> Anyway, please don't read too much into the long delay.




Thanks for the clarification, Tyll. Good on yer!


----------



## Yoga

tyll hertsens said:


> Woah! Sorry, it appears I dropped a bit of a bomb in here inadvertently. The story with Joe and getting a second pair of headphones is a bit more complicated than I wanted to write down, and my short version seems to have given folks the idea that Joe was intentionally not sending me headphones.  That is not the case.  Joe and I have talked on a couple of occasions and he has an internal imperative to make sure I'm evaluating the headphone with appropriate gear. I've been open to hearing him out and using gear we both agree is optimal for the headphones....and it's just taking a long time for us to organize that.  It's also a thing that's hard for me to put on a front burner since I've already reviewed the cans and was fairly positive about them in the review.
> 
> Anyway, please don't read too much into the long delay.


 

 It did read poorly for JPS originally, thanks for clarifying Tyll.


----------



## negura

tyll hertsens said:


> Woah! Sorry, it appears I dropped a bit of a bomb in here inadvertently. The story with Joe and getting a second pair of headphones is a bit more complicated than I wanted to write down, and my short version seems to have given folks the idea that Joe was intentionally not sending me headphones.  That is not the case.  Joe and I have talked on a couple of occasions and he has an internal imperative to make sure I'm evaluating the headphone with appropriate gear. I've been open to hearing him out and using gear we both agree is optimal for the headphones....and it's just taking a long time for us to organize that.  It's also a thing that's hard for me to put on a front burner since I've already reviewed the cans and was fairly positive about them in the review.
> 
> Anyway, please don't read too much into the long delay.


 
  
 All is clear, but still look forward for an Abyss re-review, when things work out.


----------



## Fririce0003

tyll hertsens said:


> "Joe and I have talked on a couple of occasions and he has an internal imperative to make sure I'm evaluating the headphone with appropriate gear. I've been open to hearing him out and using gear we both agree is optimal for the headphones."




Sounds like it'll be some WA234's then, some Takatsuki 300b and 274b's, Elrog 300b's, Mullard metal base GZ34's and some TSRP's. Makes for a pretty good pairing wugh the abyss


----------



## up late

you might be waiting a while yet tyll - it's not easy harvesting unicorn tears


----------



## Fririce0003

Plenty of unicorn tears here in Aus, though the Takatsuki variety is a little harder to get. 
 I'm sure Tyll wouldn't mind a chance to review the WA234 either, it does need a few more in depth reviews.


----------



## mulder01

up late said:


> you might be waiting a while yet tyll - it's not easy harvesting unicorn tears


 
  
 Still easier to drive than the 009s...


----------



## up late

in that the sr-009 requires an elestrostatic amp?


----------



## wink

I have NO trouble driving my SR-009's.   Where's the problem?


----------



## mulder01

up late said:


> in that the sr-009 requires an elestrostatic amp?


 
 Exactly - a specialised amp that is good for about 5% of headphones.
 Not impossible by any means, but just not as easy as the Abyss.  
 Unicorn tears is perhaps an exaggeration.


----------



## cladane

mulder01 said:


> Exactly - a specialised amp that is good for about 5% of headphones.
> Not impossible by any means, but just not as easy as the Abyss.
> Unicorn tears is perhaps an exaggeration.



Perhaps easy as the Abyss. Put a glance to Audiovalve Luminare showed at CanJam on the Audeze booth.


----------



## mulder01

cladane said:


> Perhaps easy as the Abyss. Put a glance to Audiovalve Luminare showed at CanJam on the Audeze booth.


 
  
 Seems like a great idea.  Makes we wonder why there's not more all-in-one amps like this - maybe it's not very good?  I just looked at the first half dozen or so pages of it's thread and it raises an eyebrow or two on first glance... How did it sound to you?


----------



## up late

mulder01 said:


> Exactly - a specialised amp that is good for about 5% of headphones.
> Not impossible by any means, but just not as easy as the Abyss.
> Unicorn tears is perhaps an exaggeration.




point is that options for driving the abyss to its potential are limited according to the designer/manufacturer although the specs would indicate otherwise. hence unicorn tears. 

no such problems for the sr-009 according to wink, despite there being far fewer options on the market that are compatible with it.


----------



## wink

Quote:mulder01 





> cladane said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps easy as the Abyss. Put a glance to Audiovalve Luminare showed at CanJam on the Audeze booth.
> ...


 
  
 It's interesting that at CanJam, it was used on the Audeze stand, and yet, besides a couple of photos in the impressions thread, there is no mention of it.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/758649/canjam-socal-2015-impressions-thread
  
  
 This thread by eric65 may interest you. Eric is an all-out fan of the amp.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/727630/luminare-amp-verto-box-by-audiovalve/285#post_11474149


----------



## eric65

wink said:


> This thread by eric65 may interest you. Eric is an all-out fan of the amp.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/727630/luminare-amp-verto-box-by-audiovalve/285#post_11474149


 
  
  About Luminare amp, Stax SR-009, JPS Abyss, LCD3-F etc ...
  
 This thread is even more interesting (it is also longer) http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178500063.html#p178500063


----------



## preproman

up late said:


> *point is that options for driving the abyss to its potential are limited according to the designer/manufacturer* although the specs would indicate otherwise. hence unicorn tears.


 
  
 Maybe in the headphone amp world, but in the speaker amp world the choices are un-limited..   Just saying...


----------



## up late

going by tyll's post i think the designer favours a source and amp combo that he believes brings out the best from the abyss but i could be wrong


----------



## preproman

And that would be what - the LAu?  lol.. yeah I guess so, Cavalli use JPS wires in their amps now.  Seems like kind of a partnership of some sort.  I'm just speculating thou..


----------



## Yoga

preproman said:


> And that would be what - the LAu?  lol.. yeah I guess so, Cavalli use JPS wires in their amps now.  Seems like kind of a partnership of some sort.  I'm just speculating thou..


 

 JPS have used the Woo 234, LAu and Moon 430HA to demo the Abyss before. Would be interesting to see which setup they would recommend/offer to Tyll.


----------



## pearljam50000

Why don't an head-fier who has the Abyss just send them to Tyll?


----------



## icebear

pearljam50000 said:


> Why don't an head-fier who has the Abyss just send them to Tyll?


 

 LOL, I guess that's called taking one for team isn't it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Parting with a 5k headphone, bearing insured shipping cost and being w/o it for some time ... not sure if there is some generous member here. I for sure would not want to be w/o my headphone just for that purpose or any purpose for that matter unless it's broken and I had to sent in for repair. Shipping it anywhere is asking for trouble (NOT implying that Tyll won't be careful with it!) just my $0.02.


----------



## mulder01

If I were in JPS Labs shoes and I had created what I considered to be the world's best headphone, I would want it hooked up to a system that let it shine.  At this price level, differences become smaller and smaller and you need TOTL equipment feeding it the right stuff to be able to appreciate it fully.  
  
 I would imagine if Stax wanted a well respected reviewer to see what the 009 was capable of, they would probably prefer that they reviewed it off a BHSE, not an electrostat converter plugged into a speaker amp.  Fair enough.  And surely when Ferrari launches a new car they want it shown off by a professional driver, not by your mum...
  
 ---
  
 I don't think getting Tyll a pair was an issue, but getting the timing right so that he could review it while he had appropriate equipment to review at the same time was a bit more difficult.  At least that's how I read it.  At the end of the day I don't think it's necessary really, all he has to do is put s strikethough the sentence of the review he doesn't think is valid and write *I have since found out that I received an early prototype with a faulty diaphragm which was likely the cause of this.  Adding an annotation box to the youtube review like Currawong does when he wants to change something later on would suffice too.


----------



## arnaud

Well, before agonizing on which amplifier will be worthy of the job, and considering any decent amp out there will make squat diference on the objective performance (read as the headphone tests tylls performs), I'd make it a more important point to send a unit without wrinkled diaphragm...

BTW, the SR009 already sings out of entry level stax amp, I just verified it last week with a srm-313 . Not the last word in extension amd bass control but it did not totally suck either. I bet the abyss sounds reasonably good out of modest gear and I recall reading reports from members that, no, a LAu is not the mandatory pairing.

I don't understand what's so difficult about driving an ortho load? It's purely resistive, it's neither very high nor very low impedance. I mean, are we saying it's a holy grail search to find an amp that can drive what effectively looks like a resistor load? 

Cheers,
Arnaud


----------



## negura

I agree this is getting a bit silly. There are amps and betters amps, but my impression is the Abyss is starting to look a wee bit too precious. I heard them on the crap amps like that McIntosh thing a dealer was demoing them with, and they sounded very good. On a decent amp yes they sounded better. But what I am not seeing here is commitment to the product. There is almost a certain vibe there is something to hide, and I am not sure why that should be. An open question to me.


----------



## mulder01

Quote:


negura said:


> I heard them on the crap amps like that McIntosh thing a dealer was demoing them with, and they sounded very good. On a decent amp yes they sounded better.


 
  
 Absolutely - I just bought a portable amp to go with mine for when I don't feel like being anchored to the desk, and they sound pretty good from it - like you say, they're not _super_ difficult to drive, it's more of a question of the quality of the sound.  They still sound very much like a high end headphone off the portable, but I get less of a feeling like they're one of the world's best.  If I was to show someone the Abyss, I'd plug them into my desktop amp - vio v281 rather than the portable because you get more of a sense of their quality through a $2.5k amp then you do from an $800 one.  It's not BAD but it's not as good as it can be.  I'm sure they're better again through a $5k amp and better again through a WA234.  It's not essential, but like the 009, he6, lcd3 etc it scales well so what's wrong with wanting to show off your product to it's potential?  However, I agree it does sound a bit overblown and defensive at the moment though.  Probably partly my fault.  But at the same time, I do have one of the cheapest amps powering the Abyss out of anyone on this thread if that's worth anything to you.


----------



## negura

I am with you fully on this. These headphones are not very efficient but they sound really great, regardless. I remember Purrin was actually rolling with these full hype on some bottom feeder Schiit stack. I cannot really disagree as this echoes
 some of my experience. Why then the slight foobar.
  
 Yeah, the are some god awful headphones to pair properly with gear, like the HD800s, and I should know this as I am on take three with these, now on a pretty high-end system, and I have to again sit on my head while doing tricks to get them to behave. That should not apply in this thread.


----------



## up late

arnaud said:


> Well, before agonizing on which amplifier will be worthy of the job, and considering any decent amp out there will make squat diference on the objective performance (read as the headphone tests tylls performs), I'd make it a more important point to send a unit without wrinkled diaphragm...
> 
> BTW, the SR009 already sings out of entry level stax amp, I just verified it last week with a srm-313 . Not the last word in extension amd bass control but it did not totally suck either. I bet the abyss sounds reasonably good out of modest gear and I recall reading reports from members that, no, a LAu is not the mandatory pairing.
> 
> ...




shouldn't be


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Prior to Abyss the McIntosh headphone amp did not exist. Nor did Simaudio Moon Neo 430, Wells Audio Headtrip, the Cavalli Liquid Gold, and on and on... At the time of Tyll's review of the AB-1266 there was way less headphone gear available at this level, and in part his subjective results reflected this.

I think we need to step back and realize where the headphone market was less than two years ago and where it is today, and we are happy to be a part of this tremendous growth in the products that have come up to greet our TOTL offering and even just simply the inspiration to do it. 

Reality is we have quite the long list of people who requested a review sample of the AB-1266, as I'm sure do other manufactures with TOTL offerings. Who wouldn't want to play with these cool toys. That list was five years long the first few months on the market, and we continue to receive requests for review on a regular basis. In all honestly I'm not of the impression that the more reviews the better, I'm more of a quality over quantity kind of guy. As Tyll had mentioned, he already reviewed it, I look at it the same way. It is what it is and it stands as such. Other well respected authorities also published measurements and reviews of product purchased through normal distribution channels; objectively the AB-1266 has been measured by everyone in the world who measure headphones for reviews, and no doubt by some who do not.

On that note, and as Tyll had mentioned, we've been bouncing back and forth the last year or so the notion of doing another review and for various reasons nothing came about. January I sent an email to Tyll to see if he could slip it into his schedule, a few days later came CES, then this show, then that meet, then SoCal... now it's April. As I mention to anyone who asks about another review, it will happen sooner or later


----------



## up late

joe skubinski said:


> Prior to Abyss the McIntosh headphone amp did not exist. Nor did Simaudio Moon Neo 430, Wells Audio Headtrip, the Cavalli Liquid Gold, and on and on... At the time of Tyll's review of the AB-1266 there was way less headphone gear available at this level, and in part his subjective results reflected this.




from tyll's review: "Last, taking Joe Skubinski's recommendation, I paired the Abyss AB-1266 with a Burson Conductor. This was a bit of a last-minute addition as I was going to use the EF-6 paired with the Abyss, but Joe preferred the Conductor. He called The Cable Company who sent their loaner amp over-night. Thank you so much, it's a lovely pairing."

the burson conductor is no slouch. has the quality and performance of totl head amps really improved that much in under 2 years?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

I think you need to have another listen man!

I'll add that at the time there was nothing else available to offer Tyll contrast to what he had. YES the headphone amplification has come a very long way since...


----------



## up late

if you say so joe


----------



## mulder01

Pretty sure Yoga mentioned the moon neo was a fair way ahead of the conductor too


----------



## up late

maybe it is, maybe it isn't. we're talking head amps here and the conductor has ample power to drive the abyss. beyond that you start talking "synergies" which are entirely subjective.


----------



## mulder01

Power isn't the only consideration.  My portable can drive them to above comfortable volumes, but that doesn't mean it sounds as good.


----------



## up late

we don't want amps that clip and distort if that's what you mean. doubt that would be an issue for the conductor driving the abyss.


----------



## mulder01

Are you saying that provided there's enough power that's all you need?


----------



## up late

you need a source as well


----------



## mulder01

Damn I guess I should have bought a $199 speaker amp that puts out 100w a channel instead of throwing away my money on a high end head amp.  Embarrassing.


----------



## up late

wasn't suggesting that but it's your money - do what you like with it and enjoy


----------



## negura

Thanks Joe for clarifying. I think that has answered any open questions for me.
  
 I agree there are better amps on the market now and with some of them the SQ improvement is significant. An experienced reviewer should/would know how to quantify this. That said imo the Soloist (Conductor amp part) is a very decent, albeit not quite top of the crop amplifier. If, after buying the Abyss, I needed one amp urgently and that was all my money, it would get considered. The DAC in the Conductor is not very good though.


----------



## Trance_Gott

The conductor is not a balanced amp and only puts 2W in 16Ohm! I never came to the idea buying a power hungry headphone like HE6 or Abyss and connected it with 6,35mm plug.
Amps like 430HA and Liquid Gold are Fully Balanced amps with a lot more power and class above the Conductor.
Hope that Tyll use the 430HA for his next review and when he hear the same setup as mine currently then Halleluya! I think only the coming HE1000 maybe can beat the Abyss.


----------



## negura

trance_gott said:


> The conductor is not a balanced amp and only puts 2W in 16Ohm! I never came to the idea buying a power hungry headphone like HE6 or Abyss and connected it with 6,35mm plug.
> Amps like 430HA and Liquid Gold are Fully Balanced amps with a lot more power and class above the Conductor.
> Hope that Tyll use the 430HA for his next review and when he hear the same setup as mine currently then Halleluya! I think only the coming HE1000 maybe can beat the Abyss.


 
  
 I don't disagree with you, but the actual spec is 4w in 16ohm. To me it's more concerning that it is class AB with a tiny PSU and 96dB SNR. But I prefer class A amps. That said, I would not recommend buying the Abyss with a Soloist for an end-game amp, clearly.  But also it does not cost what the overpriced 430HA does.
  
 The Moon was not worth the money to me for the SQ it offers, so I have just returned it for refund. In solid states I preferred the Audio GD HE-9 by a significant margin, however it was plagued by QC issues. I also preferred a class A speaker amp to it. This was with the HE-6, LCD-3Fs, HD800s, not the Abyss though.
  
 http://www.bursonaudio.com/products/soloist/


----------



## up late

yep - 2 watts per channel. ample power to drive the abyss and pretty much any other ortho maybe with the exception of the he-6


----------



## Trance_Gott

Ha ha ample power for the Abyss. Sorry man the Abyss is a little easier to drive than the HE6.


----------



## Trance_Gott

2 Watts @16Ohm.
And what about 46 Ohm? Ha ha clearly much lower.


----------



## up late

said that the he-6 might be the exception bro


----------



## Trance_Gott

Up late do you ever had Abyss or HE6?


----------



## up late

nope, don't own either but spent time with both cans and like 'em


----------



## Trance_Gott

For the big boys like HE6 or Abyss all my tests with single ended sounded crappy. But i have samples where low impendance phones sound crappy balanced and superb single ended. This was the case with my Edition 5 driven by the Taurus. Too low voltage is not good but too high voltage is also bad.


----------



## negura

trance_gott said:


> For the big boys like HE6 or Abyss all my tests with single ended sounded crappy. But i have samples where low impendance phones sound crappy balanced and superb single ended. This was the case with my Edition 5 driven by the Taurus. Too low voltage is not good but too high voltage is also bad.


 
  
 You have a point, but only where applies. In some/many cases this is a result of amp design and topologies. The Schiit Ragnarok, Audio GD Master 9 and HE-9 all sound comparatively worse out of the single ended plug. The latter two actually have different power specs on single ended. For those amps, the balanced output is the way to go with any headphones.
  
 Nothing wrong though if a good amp is single ended only.


----------



## Trance_Gott

You think i never heared a good single ended amp? Youre wrong. The SPL Phonitor 2 is a great amp but pairing with a HE6 it sounds bad with no power in the low! The K812 and TH900 sounded amazing with the P2.
About some balanced amps that sounded balanced better as single ended because of design i have the same point. The Moon 430HA is a sample how good a balanced amp sounded over the 6,35mm plug. I never have such a powerful amp sounded so great with the TH900 single ended with absolute black background.


----------



## negura

trance_gott said:


> You think i never heared a good single ended amp? Youre wrong. The SPL Phonitor 2 is a great amp but pairing with a HE6 it sounds bad with no power in the low! The K812 and TH900 sounded amazing with the P2.
> About some balanced amps that sounded balanced better as single ended because of design i have the same point. The Moon 430HA is a sample how good a balanced amp sounded over the 6,35mm plug. I never have such a powerful amp sounded so great with the TH900 single ended with absolute black background.


 
  
 Yes the Moon was fine via its SE. That was my point, so I think we are in agreement here actually. But that did not come out in your previous postings. Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## Yoga

The 430 was indeed a big improvement over the Conductor. Would hope so too, over double the price


----------



## up late

@negura - you've owned both. excluding the dac function, do you think that the moon 430ha was a big improvement over the conductor as an amp?


----------



## mulder01

I think negura is the only member I've heard so far that didn't like the Moon.  And I read through the whole Moon thread the other day...


----------



## up late

in the minority eh? head-fi can be a lonely place.


----------



## deuter

trance_gott said:


> You think i never heared a good single ended amp? Youre wrong. The SPL Phonitor 2 is a great amp but pairing with a HE6 it sounds bad with no power in the low! The K812 and TH900 sounded amazing with the P2.
> About some balanced amps that sounded balanced better as single ended because of design i have the same point. The Moon 430HA is a sample how good a balanced amp sounded over the 6,35mm plug. I never have such a powerful amp sounded so great with the TH900 single ended with absolute black background.




What other amps have you tried with your th900 ?


----------



## negura

I never said I disliked the Moon. But I also don't think we should compare the Soloist and the Moon, though it has been a while since I had the Soloist/Conductor, so big grain of salt. But if I said the Soloist was decent, about the Moon I feel it is a good to very good amp. The latter did not do anything badly, but it was hardly outstanding either. If the Moon was costing around 2000-2500$, I would say that is about right.
  
 That said it's my no #2 solid state amp, with some gap to fill, after the Audio GD HE-9. Next up I want to hear in solid states is the SuSy Dynahi whenever I can get one commissioned and built.
  
 I found the Moon 430HA could drive the HE-6s well, for a headamp, so it should be fine with the Abyss from a driving ability perspective.


----------



## Trance_Gott

deuter said:


> What other amps have you tried with your th900 ?


 
 Meier Audio Classic
 Bryston BHA-1
 SPL Phonitor 2
 Auralic Taurus MKII
  
 All amps are very good match with the TH900. But the Moon is outstanding!


----------



## deuter

trance_gott said:


> Meier Audio Classic
> 
> Bryston BHA-1
> 
> ...




You should try the Bakoon


----------



## isquirrel

Still waiting to hear the Moon


----------



## cladane

isquirrel said:


> Still waiting to hear the Moon



Ah Ahhh. Each one is quoting his amp. So let's go: the very best for Abyss cans is.... Luxman P 700u. Trust me guys. Even the condos are Luxman made parts. It's not only the design but the components matching the design. Good ones also: CypherLabs Proteus and Aurorasound Heada.
THEN the DAC: TotalDAC D1 Dual (FPGA programmed like Chord DACs, R2R D/A, discrete out). Setup total price: 20k€.
And advertisement comes true: as good as a 100k$ speakers system.


----------



## yates7592

I keep wanting to travel around 200 miles each way to test drive the Abyss, I figure that so many have so good to say about it that it must be sensational right? I'm just wondering though, I auditioned LCD3 and HD800 fairly intensively and came out the shop with HD800. I really didn't care very much for LCD3, it was dark and muddy. Several reviews I have read have concluded that the Abyss is better than LCD3, but not orders of magnitude, and maybe only twice as good at best as LCD2. Am I likely wasting my time and money going to listen to the Abyss?


----------



## philo50

I took delivery of my Abyss earlier today....out of the box they are fantastic....now to let them settle in


----------



## isquirrel

philo50 said:


> I took delivery of my Abyss earlier today....out of the box they are fantastic....now to let them settle in


 
 Congratulations 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Looking forward to your impressions, welcome to the club.


----------



## philo50

thank you.....I have been lurking


----------



## warrior1975

Unfortunately I've found this thread... Why God why? @philo50-looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## mulder01

Quote:


yates7592 said:


> I keep wanting to travel around 200 miles each way to test drive the Abyss, I figure that so many have so good to say about it that it must be sensational right? I'm just wondering though, I auditioned LCD3 and HD800 fairly intensively and came out the shop with HD800. I really didn't care very much for LCD3, it was dark and muddy. Several reviews I have read have concluded that the Abyss is better than LCD3, but not orders of magnitude, and maybe only twice as good at best as LCD2. Am I likely wasting my time and money going to listen to the Abyss?


 
  
 I think it's worth it if you're curious about buying one.  
 I traveled 1000 miles each way when I bought mine if that makes you feel any better


----------



## isquirrel

There's a song about that !

Same here, had to do it 4 times though, now I'm smitten


----------



## up late

@yates - had a similar experience with the lcd3. you won't satisfy your curiosity about the abyss unless you make the trip. you should take your hd800 to compare if you do.

@mulder - that's commitment


----------



## mulder01

haha yeah I think $300 on flights was a sensible investment to be sure about a $6000 purchase
 We don't have much of a choice in Australia - we only have 1 serious headphone shop!


----------



## deuter

mulder01 said:


> haha yeah I think $300 on flights was a sensible investment to be sure about a $6000 purchase
> We don't have much of a choice in Australia - we only have 1 serious headphone shop!





There are a few, one in Melbourne (The World's most popular), one in Perth and now one in Sydney. 

Actually, thinking of it, Melbourne has 3.
So plenty of options.


----------



## mulder01

I live in Brisbane


----------



## cladane

philo50 said:


> thank you.....I have been lurking


 

 Very good choice indeed. Now the question will be the amp (since your source is fine) which signature influences really the Abyss.
 One reason which explains JPSLabs' behavior on the reviewers matter (discussed at long in this thread).


----------



## superfred21

cladane said:


> Ah Ahhh. Each one is quoting his amp. So let's go: the very best for Abyss cans is.... Luxman P 700u. Trust me guys. Even the condos are Luxman made parts. It's not only the design but the components matching the design. Good ones also: CypherLabs Proteus and Aurorasound Heada.
> THEN the DAC: TotalDAC D1 Dual (FPGA programmed like Chord DACs, R2R D/A, discrete out). Setup total price: 20k€.
> And advertisement comes true: as good as a 100k$ speakers system.


 
 I recommend testing the amplifier "VIVA Egoista" with tube KR 845 my best experience with the abyss headphone,In front of Luxman P700u .
 For DAC TotalDac D1 dual undoubtedly.


----------



## cladane

superfred21 said:


> I recommend testing the amplifier "VIVA Egoista" with tube KR 845 my best experience with the abyss headphone,In front of Luxman P700u .
> For DAC TotalDac D1 dual undoubtedly.


 

 Thank you for the link.
 Just wondering if it really exists a better SS Amp than Tubes which would suit Abyss cans ?


----------



## wink

The Halcro DM-78...


----------



## cladane

wink said:


> The Halcro DM-78...


 

 An idea...
 Hearing at headphones just doesn't make me happy at good timbres but I notice a high lack of soundstage (width and height) very often. Of course the source is important (why I mentioned the TotalDAC) but an SS amp wouldn't be more at ease for this task ?? Even forgiving BitPerfect and using AU/VST plugins to correct the sound.


----------



## cladane

superfred21 said:


> I recommend testing the amplifier "VIVA Egoista" with tube KR 845 my best experience with the abyss headphone,In front of Luxman P700u .
> For DAC TotalDac D1 dual undoubtedly.


 

 Point I wonder: the Egoista is SE so does it make sense connecting a dual DAC ??
 On the other hand don't the Abyss perform better balanced ?


----------



## up late

cladane said:


> An idea...
> Hearing at headphones just doesn't make me happy at good timbres but I notice a high lack of soundstage (width and height) very often. Of course the source is important (why I mentioned the TotalDAC) but an SS amp wouldn't be more at ease for this task ?? Even forgiving BitPerfect and using AU/VST plugins to correct the sound.




probably better off looking at speakers if soundstage is important to you


----------



## mulder01

wink said:


> The Halcro DM-78...


 
 You and those amps...
 Have you ever actually heard them?


----------



## cladane

up late said:


> probably better off looking at speakers if soundstage is important to you


 

 Yes and you are right. So I purchased a speaker rig (amp + speakers: Audiomat Arpège R10 + JMR Euterpes Supremes) in the 6000€ average (Abyss price) to get this reference soundstage (I listen only to Symphonies or Violin concertos).
 I was trying now to verify the Abyss advertisement = a $100000 speakers system. Soundstage should be much much better than my speakers setup.


----------



## up late

no can, not even the hd800, can compete with speakers in that department


----------



## wink

Quote:Mulder01 





> You and those amps...
> Have you ever actually heard them?


 
 Yep.  At Len Wallis in Lane Cove.


----------



## cladane

up late said:


> no can, not even the hd800, can compete with speakers in that department



There is a solution: VST/AU plugins to correct the sound. Even advised by DAC manufacturers. Bitperfection is less important than soundstage for me listening a lot Symphonies.


----------



## up late

no idea what that is but it sounds magical


----------



## isquirrel

wink said:


> Yep.  At Len Wallis in Lane Cove.


 

 Halcro's DM 78 ugh, thin and bright, do not like those amps. Have you heard any Lamm's the ML3's ?


----------



## cladane

isquirrel said:


> Halcro's DM 78 ugh, thin and bright, do not like those amps. Have you heard any Lamm's the ML3's ?



I listened at a LAMM setup (preamp-amp) with Magico S5 and Aesthetic source. It was Faure Requiem performed by C Bartolli. Magical!! Impressive. I would like to find an Abyss rig equivalent.


----------



## Kiats

cladane said:


> I listened at a LAMM setup (preamp-amp) with Magico S5 and Aesthetic source. It was Faure Requiem performed by C Bartolli. Magical!! Impressive. I would like to find an Abyss rig equivalent.




Good to see you here, Claude! Enjoying the Abyss too?


----------



## wink

Quote:isquirrel 





> Halcro's DM 78 ugh, thin and bright, do not like those amps.


 
 That's not the amp's fault.  Look at the rest of the setup.


----------



## cladane

kiats said:


> Good to see you here, Claude! Enjoying the Abyss too?



Hello Kiats! Thanks again for the C435. High Japanese savoir-faire. Still not an Abyss owner. Working to elaborate a great setup I would equate a LAMM setup.


----------



## Kiats

cladane said:


> Hello Kiats! Thanks again for the C435. High Japanese savoir-faire. Still not an Abyss owner. Working to elaborate a great setup I would equate a LAMM setup.




Glad to hear that you are enjoying the 435: fantastic for orchestral works. 

Ah... Yes, that would be a worthy quest!


----------



## isquirrel

wink said:


> That's not the amp's fault.  Look at the rest of the setup.


 

 I owned a pair and the DM58's before them, they are lean sounding amps if you're into sonic lushness they are not the amps. Out of all of the big power SS amps I've owned they were the one's I and many others liked least of all. But then I am not a SS guy unless you have a good valve pre and phone stage up front.


----------



## isquirrel

Moving along, my head (disease) told me the Abyss, wonderful as it is could be "improved" so I have ordered the Double Helix Spore 4 Fusion's - being built now. We shall see......


----------



## djd1122

isquirrel said:


> Moving along, my head (disease) told me the Abyss, wonderful as it is could be "improved" so I have ordered the Double Helix Spore 4 Fusion's - being built now. We shall see......


 
  
 Be on the lookout for a Synergistic Research Galileo LE USB Cable.  In my system it is considerably better than the Light Harmonic Lightspeed and Purist Ultimate USB cables.


----------



## seeteeyou

Owner of Trinity DAC preferred £1,125 Vertere Acoustics Pulse HB over his $9K Absolute Dream USB, go figure
  
 http://audioexotics.hk/index.php?option=com_simplestforum&view=postlist&forumId=1&parentId=12150&topic=true&Itemid=53
 http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16660-Vertere-HB-Series-usb-cable
  
 Most likely we'll witness the impressions of first owner of Peter's flagship Spore 4 with Abyss here, could that be another game changer like Nordost Odin?


----------



## isquirrel

djd1122 said:


> Be on the lookout for a Synergistic Research Galileo LE USB Cable.  In my system it is considerably better than the Light Harmonic Lightspeed and Purist Ultimate USB cables.


 

 Thanks, I am thinking that the LH dual cable might be a little dry/lean. I have ordered another USB cable from Computer Audio Design's which is supposed to be rich and tuneful.
  
 I have messed around with several USB cables and so far the LH has come out on top, but like in all things audio these things change.


----------



## isquirrel

seeteeyou said:


> Owner of Trinity DAC preferred £1,125 Vertere Acoustics Pulse HB over his $9K Absolute Dream USB, go figure
> 
> http://audioexotics.hk/index.php?option=com_simplestforum&view=postlist&forumId=1&parentId=12150&topic=true&Itemid=53
> http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16660-Vertere-HB-Series-usb-cable
> ...


 

 I will post pics and impressions once they arrive about 4 weeks time


----------



## isquirrel

seeteeyou said:


> Owner of Trinity DAC preferred £1,125 Vertere Acoustics Pulse HB over his $9K Absolute Dream USB, go figure
> 
> http://audioexotics.hk/index.php?option=com_simplestforum&view=postlist&forumId=1&parentId=12150&topic=true&Itemid=53
> http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16660-Vertere-HB-Series-usb-cable
> ...


 

 Thanks for the heads up, just ordered the USB cable will be here Friday


----------



## seeteeyou

isquirrel said:


> Thanks for the heads up, just ordered the USB cable will be here Friday


 
  
 You're very welcomed, I also ordered the coax version and still awaiting my shipment from UK.
  
  
 Maybe it ain't exactly ideal to travel with Abyss, the following transportable fully-balanced amp from Japan was actually designed to drive that
  

  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/754195/mass-kobo-headphone-amp-model404


----------



## Beolab

Does anyone measured or know the max SPL and max input power?


----------



## cladane

isquirrel said:


> Moving along, my head (disease) told me the Abyss, wonderful as it is could be "improved" so I have ordered the Double Helix Spore 4 Fusion's - being built now. We shall see......


 

 On my own side my next audio step is to compare Abyss sound response at 300B's and 845 tubes (Viva Egoista) on soundstage (width and height) side for symphonic phalanxes.
 Concerning USB, a would like to point TotalDAC USB cable.


----------



## Beolab

I was thinking of order the LH Geek Pulse X amp/DAC and sell my Hugo. 

Have anyone tried this with the Abyss, and can give me some input?


----------



## isquirrel

cladane said:


> On my own side my next audio step is to compare Abyss sound response at 300B's and 845 tubes (Viva Egoista) on soundstage (width and height) side for symphonic phalanxes.
> Concerning USB, a would like to point TotalDAC USB cable.


 

 Which valves will you be using? I am using the Elrog 300B's I have heard the 845 also and they sound fabulous


----------



## isquirrel

Vertere Pulse HB USB cable has turned up, brand new so no in depth listening impressions until its has some time on it. Does sound smooth and rich, but mids and vocals are recessed out of the box. Good news is its not bright.


----------



## up late

schmick packaging and cable befitting golden ears


----------



## seeteeyou

isquirrel said:


> I will post pics and impressions once they arrive about 4 weeks time


 
  
 Spore 4 in May, and then Pulse HB in June for your Abyss. That's gotta be some serious fun for you.
  
  
 Just in case you'd like to terminate Pulse HB with one of the best mini XLR connectors out there, maybe Touraj could acquire a pair of them for your Pulse HB?
  
 http://www.atl-newcablestudio.com/XLR%20F3RH0101.html
  
 They don't seem to have any distributors in UK but Lillian should be able to ship them directly to Vertere Acoustics
  
 http://www.atl-newcablestudio.com/Contact.html
  
 End game cables on the horizon, perhaps you also wanna ask Touraj to make an extra pair of Pulse HB for HiFiMAN HE-1000 as well?


----------



## isquirrel

seeteeyou said:


> Spore 4 in May, and then Pulse HB in June for your Abyss. That's gotta be some serious fun for you.
> 
> [rule]
> Just in case you'd like to terminate Pulse HB with one of the best mini XLR connectors out there, maybe Touraj could acquire a pair of them for your Pulse HB?
> ...




Very interesting thank you for those links, in light of how well the HB USB is performing I spoke with Touraj and he is bringing some HB's out with him in June. 

You have eagle eyes, thanks


----------



## seeteeyou

isquirrel said:


> Very interesting thank you for those links, in light of how well the HB USB is performing I spoke with Touraj and he is bringing some HB's out with him in June.
> 
> You have eagle eyes, thanks


 
  
 No problem. Since those Pulse HB Ethernet cables were working so well for CKKeung already, you might keep an eye on this NADAC in the near future
  
 http://www.defitechnique.com/upload/galerie/54/Nadac_defi.pdf
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/new-digital-analogue-converter-merging-technologies-home-audio-market-22967/
  
 Under 10K for the 2-channel flavor, about the same ballpark as QBD76 HDSD?
  
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/merging-technologies-nadac
  
  
 The fantastic selling point about the 8-channel version of NADAC should be its potential to decode multi-channel DSD materials via Ethernet input. Then connect NADAC > Smyth SVS Realiser > WA-234 > Abyss and you'll get a heck of multi-channel experience
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/418401/long-awaited-smyth-svs-realiser-now-available-for-purchase
  
  
 They're showcasing NADAC next month in Munich so you could keep an eagle eye on that as well, LOL
  
 http://www.highendsociety.de/index.php/brands_2015.html


----------



## isquirrel

Out of the box the cable was a little recessed in the mids and highs, but rich in timbre, I then left it on burn in for 3 hours came back to it and I was shocked. I have been around for a while, so I was not expecting the dramatic change in sound. Left on burn in using the Purist Audio Design system enhancer CD and well, this cable is incredible, easily the best USB cable I have heard, it absolutely stomps over the Light Harmonic LightSpeed in every department. Tonally full of texture and a sonic window painted with superb tonal colours, utterly non fatiguing. Mids and highs are now blossoming nicely. I did not think digital could sound this textured and full. Bass extension and weight is renditioned with great accuracy as the soundstage width and height. I had to call Touraj and congratulate him and order the Ethernet cable.

He is visiting soon and said if I send him the specs of the Abyss headphones he will make up HB cables for those and bring them over to Sydney in June. A+ for effort.

Please bear in mind this is with only 15 hours on the USB, makes the LightSpeed sound sterile, thin and well I am glad to be rid of it. Turns out that upper mid leanness was the LightSpeed cable.
  
**Update now at 50+ hours and improved further, can't detect major changes happening to the sound now, remarkable cable. 

Slam dunk, this one is a winner, now for the CAD cable to turn up.


----------



## hpz

> ... the LightSpeed sound sterile, thin and well I am glad to be rid of it.


 
  
 Exactly why i got rid of my Lightspeed cable as well. Opted for the Totaldac D1 cable and never looked back.


----------



## cladane

seeteeyou said:


> [rule]
> The fantastic selling point about the 8-channel version of NADAC should be its potential to decode multi-channel DSD materials via Ethernet input. Then connect NADAC > Smyth SVS Realiser > WA-234 > Abyss and you'll get a heck of multi-channel experience
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/418401/long-awaited-smyth-svs-realiser-now-available-for-purchase
> ...



Ah yes for multi-channel DSD. How would be the connection NADAC > Smyth ?
About the Smyth my concern is its skills to decode Qobuz HiRes stereo streams. This piece of gear is more multi-channel oriented.


----------



## cladane

isquirrel said:


> Which valves will you be using? I am using the Elrog 300B's I have heard the 845 also and they sound fabulous


 

 I would like to point out that Elrog 300B is not a 300B. It is a derivated 300B tube named '300B' for marketing reasons.

 A real 300B has a 800° heated nickel ribbon and the Elrog a tunsgten 1600° heated filament thus making a much higher radiated power on the gate so changing the gate current (all about distortions). The WE 300B was physically conceived to have a clean cut-off (gate position versus ribbon) which is not reproduced on the Elrog resulting in a rounded cut-off.
 This Elrog 300B is more a 801.
  
 Read what T. Meyer told about the '300B' project:
  
_When I had my initial discussion about a 300B with Dr. Schaffernicht during my visit in 2013, I mentioned that a 300B with thoriated tungsten filaments would be something *really new and cool*. People who follow my blog probably noticed my preference for these bright filament tubes. Dr. Schaffernicht liked this idea a lot, since he already has plenty experience with thoriated tungsten filaments from the 211 and 845s.

 Initially it seemed impossible to do that and keep the spec for filament voltage and current. So first experiments were started using oxide coated filaments which I helped to get from one of the large tube manufacturers. But Dr. Schaffernicht wouldn't let go of the initial idea to use thoriated tungsten. He finally came up with a design which enables the use of the bright filaments as can be seen on the photo above._
  
 Why thoriated tungsten ? Because of Elrog is well known for their tungsten 845 and 211 and they don't know making a triple carbonate emissive coating nor probably bake it. But this '300B' is a winner for pricing (+USD1000)
 German fachwissen !!
http://vinylsavor.blogspot.ch/2014/10/elrog-er-300b-first-impressions.html


----------



## isquirrel

cladane said:


> I would like to point out that Elrog 300B is not a 300B. It is a derivated 300B tube named '300B' for marketing reasons.
> 
> A real 300B has a 800° heated nickel ribbon and the Elrog a tunsgten 1600° heated filament thus making a much higher radiated power on the gate so changing the gate current (all about distortions). The WE 300B was physically conceived to have a clean cut-off (gate position versus ribbon) which is not reproduced on the Elrog resulting in a rounded cut-off.
> This Elrog 300B is more a 801.
> ...


 

 Good info


----------



## yates7592

Does anybody use the Endorphin balanced cable with the Abyss, or is there a review available? Any improvement over stock cable? The reason I'm asking is I suspect I may end up buying the Abyss. I don't need/want the bag or stand in the full version, but nor can I use the 4-pin cable which is included in the Lite version. So the choice is full Abyss with (supposedly already very good) stock 3-pin cable and a bunch of stuff I don't need, or the Lite version plus the Endorphin cable (if it is worth the extra $$$).


----------



## yates7592

Have now bitten the bullet and am going for an audition of the Abyss tomorrow. I will be directly A/B-ing with HD800 (my existing cans) in the process. Will let you know what I think!


----------



## pearljam50000

Waiting for your impressions


----------



## up late

that's something i haven't done but might do yet. intend to compare the he-1000 with the abyss for sure.


----------



## yates7592

Hmm, had my Abyss audition yesterday, pretty much a waste of time. The best amp the shop had was a Sugden HA-4 Masterclass which I think only puts out about 1W max, and is single ended only. I couldn't get a good fit, despite moving the cups in and out and the guy who was there didn't seem to know how to either. I felt like I needed to bend the cups down and in at the bottom, but couldn't really do that on a demo pair. So the sound I got was totally underwhelming, I was comparing with my HD800 at the time, and they sounded much better, not that it was a fair comparison given the fit issues and the underpowered amp. One thing that I did pick up on, the Abyss is voiced much more like LCD-3 than HD800,  somewhere between the two, but much closer to Audeze, quite a dark sound which I didn't like. I'm going to try another audition elsewhere sometime with better amp and help, but I still don't think these are going to be for me.


----------



## warrior1975

I'd be sick if I bought these and didn't absolutely love the sound.


----------



## up late

yates7592 said:


> Hmm, had my Abyss audition yesterday, pretty much a waste of time. The best amp the shop had was a Sugden HA-4 Masterclass which I think only puts out about 1W max, and is single ended only. I couldn't get a good fit, despite moving the cups in and out and the guy who was there didn't seem to know how to either. I felt like I needed to bend the cups down and in at the bottom, but couldn't really do that on a demo pair. So the sound I got was totally underwhelming, I was comparing with my HD800 at the time, and they sounded much better, not that it was a fair comparison given the fit issues and the underpowered amp. One thing that I did pick up on, the Abyss is voiced much more like LCD-3 than HD800,  somewhere between the two, but much closer to Audeze, quite a dark sound which I didn't like. I'm going to try another audition elsewhere sometime with better amp and help, but I still don't think these are going to be for me.




sounds like a far from ideal audition. better luck next time.


----------



## Yoga

yates7592 said:


> Hmm, had my Abyss audition yesterday, pretty much a waste of time. The best amp the shop had was a Sugden HA-4 Masterclass which I think only puts out about 1W max, and is single ended only. I couldn't get a good fit, despite moving the cups in and out and the guy who was there didn't seem to know how to either. I felt like I needed to bend the cups down and in at the bottom, but couldn't really do that on a demo pair. So the sound I got was totally underwhelming, I was comparing with my HD800 at the time, and they sounded much better, not that it was a fair comparison given the fit issues and the underpowered amp. One thing that I did pick up on, the Abyss is voiced much more like LCD-3 than HD800,  somewhere between the two, but much closer to Audeze, quite a dark sound which I didn't like. I'm going to try another audition elsewhere sometime with better amp and help, but I still don't think these are going to be for me.


 
  
 That's like driving a Ferrari only in reverse gear while wearing boxing gloves and clown shoes.


----------



## mulder01

If you are in love with the HD800's sound signature, then it's possible these are not for you.  Was just reading over on the HE1000 thread someone that preferred the HE6 because they were just too in love with that particular sound sig.  That's good news for his wallet and yours if that's the case.  Like you said, probably not an ideal demo though.


----------



## yates7592

Which DAC's are pairing best with the Abyss?


----------



## Yoga

yates7592 said:


> Which DAC's are pairing best with the Abyss?


 
  
 What sonic signature do you prefer?


----------



## Oingo Boingo

Looking for an advice re the best amp to drive the Abyss.  Sound signature – warm, not bright, high res, good bass control (bass should not dominate), no harsh, etc.  I do have Omegas, the Orpheus Set, both R10, etc.  Would like to buy Abyss (which I have heard) mostly for rock and metal.  Cavalli LG? Beta22?  Better?  Any good tube amps?  Would like the same amp to drive my LCD3 and HE6, but Abyss in the first place.  Currently have HP4 with good tubes and Sugden HA4 which both seem not powerful enough for the planars.  Still prefer the estats sound, especially SR-Omega, but would like to add Abyss to my collection for a different sound signature.


----------



## warrior1975

Nice headphone collection!! When you get the Abyss would love to hear your impressions, especially in comparison to what you have already.


----------



## Fririce0003

oingo boingo said:


> Looking for an advice re the best amp to drive the Abyss.  Sound signature – warm, not bright, high res, good bass control (bass should not dominate), no harsh, etc.  I do have Omegas, the Orpheus Set, both R10, etc.  Would like to buy Abyss (which I have heard) mostly for rock and metal.  Cavalli LG? Beta22?  Better?  Any good tube amps?  Would like the same amp to drive my LCD3 and HE6, but Abyss in the first place.  Currently have HP4 with good tubes and Sugden HA4 which both seem not powerful enough for the planars.  Still prefer the estats sound, especially SR-Omega, but would like to add Abyss to my collection for a different sound signature.




 Very nice collection there 
 I wouldn't write off tube amps for the abyss, my top 3 are actually tube amps. In order the WA234, WA5 and Cypher Labs Prautes. I've also tried the LAu, P-700u, Liquid glass, GS-X, Rag and MK3B+ with the abyss. For detail, warmth and control you can't beat the 234 with a good complement of tubes, good NOS drivers, Elrog or Takatsuki 300B's and Takatsuki 274B's or Mullard Metal Base GZ34. The WA5 is similar in tonality and presentation but only gets to about 65-75% of the WA234. The Prautes, though straight from the box, was a little brighter than the WA5, slightly thinner mids, soundstage was as wide but a little higher and deeper. Bass control was a little better than the 5 but short of the 234 but the bass boost was well implemented and could prove useful.
 Haven't yet found a SS that beats tubes in terms of all round enjoyment. 
 But if anyone knows of a good SS amp for the abyss that also has balanced pre amp outputs I'm all ears  I've got pre amp outs on my 234's and my GS-X but it's a poor pairing with the abyss, was thinking of selling the GS-X for something better suited to the Abyss, that I can also use as a pre for my speaker rig. Also to use as a headphone amp for short sessions or between cool downs for the 234.

Edit: Also heard the V281.


----------



## cladane

fririce0003 said:


> Very nice collection there
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You are refined man.
  
 Regarding tube amps very good choices but you are falling short comparing with the Viva Egoista driving the Abyss. Just to look at it, F Iacone reviewed it on HeadFi. Italian masterpiece with 845 at opera.
  
 The SS amp which could suit your tastes is the Moon 430HA, I think.


----------



## Yoga

oingo boingo said:


> Looking for an advice re the best amp to drive the Abyss.  Sound signature – warm, not bright, high res, good bass control (bass should not dominate), no harsh, etc.  I do have Omegas, the Orpheus Set, both R10, etc.  Would like to buy Abyss (which I have heard) mostly for rock and metal.  Cavalli LG? Beta22?  Better?  Any good tube amps?  Would like the same amp to drive my LCD3 and HE6, but Abyss in the first place.  Currently have HP4 with good tubes and Sugden HA4 which both seem not powerful enough for the planars.  Still prefer the estats sound, especially SR-Omega, but would like to add Abyss to my collection for a different sound signature.


 

 Demo the Moon 430HA :¬)


----------



## yates7592

SS amp for Abyss, you could consider Wells Headtrip which as I understand it was designed to mate with Abyss. Very pricey with impressive spec and sound pedigree. I have one and have just bought Klonk's Abyss here on Headfi so in a week or two I could give an update.


----------



## mulder01

^ wow, even after that so-so audition?  Have you heard the combo before?


----------



## up late

that's surprising


----------



## yates7592

After the poor audition experience, something at the back of my mind was still telling me Abyss should be an awesome set of cans if I get them just right. I knew I had a DAC/amp combo at home to rival/beat most hi-fi shops so I figured the best way to give these cans a fair shout was at home over a quality period of time with no pressure. So I picked up Klonk's Abyss on Head-Fi for a reasonable price, if they're really not for me then I am sure I will be able to move them on at no loss.
  
 @ mulder: no I've not heard the Headtrip/Abyss combo (not yet... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but rest assured my Headtrip is already exceptional with HD800, moving them way way above my old HDVA600 amp. Read many passing comments from shows etc that Headtrip/Abyss is to die for, we shall see....


----------



## up late

if i had an audition experience like yours with the abyss then i'd be wanting to give it another hearing before considering shelling out for one. hope your hunch pays off.


----------



## mulder01

The headtrip is about as high end as SS headphone amps get isn't it?  Should be a PRETTY GOOD SETUP!
 Fair call to get a second hand pair.  If you don't like them I guess you can move them on without too much cost.  I have a feeling you will be keeping them though


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> The headtrip is about as high end as SS headphone amps get isn't it?  Should be a PRETTY GOOD SETUP!
> Fair call to get a second hand pair.  If you don't like them I guess you can move them on without too much cost.  I have a feeling you will be keeping them though


 
  
 I had my eye on it also, but UK import and tax/duty fees were a joke.
  
 Headtrip + Yggy should be a rather delightful combo.


----------



## yates7592

@ yoga - Klonk's Abyss ships from Germany so no vat or import duty to the UK (I think).


----------



## cladane

yates7592 said:


> @ yoga - Klonk's Abyss ships from Germany so no vat or import duty to the UK (I think).


 

 You could be right on this choice. The Headtrip looks impressive.
 What about soundstage yet with HD800 ? Regarding classical music and symphonies with large phalanxes: speaking here of width and front to back dimensions. Something similar to a speakers system ?? I read the Apex Teton or EC 445 were up the crowd on this field... What is your feeling ?


----------



## FidelityCastro

Forgive me if this is utterly worthless for the type of rig that one would usually pair with this headphone, but I had the chance to try the Abyss with a little portable set up today, specifically an IP6 into a Chord Hugo, playing tracks of 16/44 or better. 

I've tried a few other high end headphones with that set up (the usual Audezes, and I own some Denon D7000s) and they all sound really good, but this was by far the most obvious case of the 'phones being too good for the little portable set up. 

Some tracks sounded fab, but some tracks that sound great through my IEMs (Earsonic Velvets, UM Merlins) immediately sounded "badly" mixed and mastered on the Abyss. They seemed to show up how much modern music is mixed for boxes like smartphones + earbuds, or docking stations with a single speaker - the Spotify / iTunes world etc. 

I appreciate that this level of headphone (not least the size, weight and look) isn't designed to be used on the move. But I'm one of those who uses the same setup at home or on a long flight, sometimes just adding a decent set of over-ear 'phones because the portability isn't important; and this was a stark reminder that even a fairly decent portable rig that sounds great with good IEMs, and Tidal quality upwards, doesn't do such high end headphones justice. 

Oh, and if I needed any more reminding, I had to turn up the Hugo way louder than with any headphone I've ever tried, just to get to my usual listening volume. I reckon the Hugo was at about 85% volume (the volume dial on a Hugo segues through a number of different colours as you change volume, and I'd never even seen that colour on there before!) 

In fact it made we start thinking about starting a proper in-home rig with desktop amps and dacs. My wallet has made a run for the border....


----------



## mulder01

You _can_ use portable if you want - I bought an ALO Rx Mk3b+ that I plug my Abyss into when I don't want to be anchored to the desk and it's perfectly acceptable.  I have read the Centrance HiFiM8 is meant to be pretty good too.  I like the idea of the HiFi M8 because it's a dac/amp combo, plus it comes in a version with 2x full sized XLR outputs.  With the ALO amp, I have to use a RSA balanced adapter to full sized 4 pin, to 2x 3 pin XLR and the adapters are more awkward to handle than the electronics.  I'm going to give the HiFi M8 a try when I can because it would be a lot neater and more portable without the additional device and adapters.
  
 Of course, there is the argument that if you're going to buy a $5k headphone, you are probably looking for the best sound possible and for that, you'll need a desktop rig.  But I feel like sometimes I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of sound quality for convenience of walking around the house/ laying in bed/ listening in a different room.  Depends how far you want to go and in which direction I suppose.
  
 PS. Nice user name


----------



## FidelityCastro

mulder01 said:


> You _can_ use portable if you want - I bought an ALO Rx Mk3b+ that I plug my Abyss into when I don't want to be anchored to the desk and it's perfectly acceptable.  I have read the Centrance HiFiM8 is meant to be pretty good too.  I like the idea of the HiFi M8 because it's a dac/amp combo, plus it comes in a version with 2x full sized XLR outputs.  With the ALO amp, I have to use a RSA balanced adapter to full sized 4 pin, to 2x 3 pin XLR and the adapters are more awkward to handle than the electronics.  I'm going to give the HiFi M8 a try when I can because it would be a lot neater and more portable without the additional device and adapters.
> 
> Of course, there is the argument that if you're going to buy a $5k headphone, you are probably looking for the best sound possible and for that, you'll need a desktop rig.  But I feel like sometimes I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of sound quality for convenience of walking around the house/ laying in bed/ listening in a different room.  Depends how far you want to go and in which direction I suppose.
> 
> PS. Nice user name




Thanks Mulder - I spent ages coming up with it! 

Your second paragraph is exactly why I thought I'd give the Abyss a quick try. The Hugo clearly isn't cheap by portable standards, and I don't want any more device stacking than smartphone + Hugo or just a good solo DAP (I also have a modded AK120 that runs balanced), so more than happy to invest in some decent over-ears for home use. 

And speaking of Centrance, I tried the Glove Audio A1 today, and the balanced sound was epic. Would've liked to try the Abyss through it but they didn't have a 2.5mm cable. 

 It was just interesting to me that this particular headphone, if it could talk, Pixar inanimate object-style, would probably say, "Seriously? Get yourself some better kit, my friend!"


----------



## Sorrodje

cladane said:


> What about soundstage yet with HD800 ? Regarding classical music and symphonies with large phalanxes: speaking here of width and front to back dimensions. Something similar to a speakers system ?? I read the Apex Teton or EC 445 were up the crowd on this field... What is your feeling ?


 
  
  
 Ask to @lojay


----------



## Yoga

yates7592 said:


> @ yoga - Klonk's Abyss ships from Germany so no vat or import duty to the UK (I think).


 

 Handy! 
  
 The import prices were in relation to the Headtrip - actually rather laughable when compared with the base US price.


----------



## cladane

sorrodje said:


> Ask to @lojay



Thank you Sorrodje. Read his posts.
I was asking Yates7592 his feelings relative to the Wells Headtrip. Can SS outrun Tubes on this aspect??


----------



## mulder01

fidelitycastro said:


> Thanks Mulder - I spent ages coming up with it!
> 
> Your second paragraph is exactly why I thought I'd give the Abyss a quick try. The Hugo clearly isn't cheap by portable standards, and I don't want any more device stacking than smartphone + Hugo or just a good solo DAP (I also have a modded AK120 that runs balanced), so more than happy to invest in some decent over-ears for home use.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah the Hugo definitely isn't cheap but I think it's maybe under powered for these?  Maybe the glove too?  I don't know, but the glove would have the same issues with the adapters.  I think the HiFiM8 is the only portable combo that I know of with 2x 3pin XLRs.  Actually if you got the lite edition Abyss you'd want a 4pin balanced anyway...  Or just go desktop


----------



## Sorrodje

cladane said:


> Thank you Sorrodje. Read his posts.
> I was asking Yates7592 his feelings relative to the Wells Headtrip. Can SS outrun Tubes on this aspect??


 
  
 Just received an Audio-GD HE-9 on loan and the result in term of soundstage is indredibly good with my HD800. the Best I heard from any Solid-State amp thus far bit I haven't too much experience with TOTL amps . Only heard the GSX mkiI at a meet. I can only say the result with the HD800 is  very very good. Take this with the usual grain of salt


----------



## agooh

I didn't advice you to try hugo with hd 800 you will get the best detail with a huge soundstage but still sound analytical and bright .


----------



## plakat

Regarding portable DAC/Amp options the ifi iDSD Micro might be an option as its rather powerful and fulfills my volume needs easily, i.e. without sounding stressed / limited.
  
 Nevertheless it just came to my mind that I did not even take the Abyss out of its bag since the last meet in Vienna. And that was more than 2 weeks ago... It took a bit longer this time, but I think I'm once again back with my T1. Plus really enjoying some rather cheap cans, like the DT770/80 and the DT250/250 at the moment 
  
 I listened to my Abyss for the last time at said meet. And Yes, it is a fantastic headphone. Still I like a headphone that does not slip off my head when moving or leaning forward. Plus I just love the T1 sound signature... just the right amount of detail / space without leaving out fun aspects.
  
 Nevertheless I don't regret buying the Abyss... would have vexed me forever I guess. In the end it helped me appreciate what other options deliver, putting that in context. I think I'll still use it for some time to come, but currently I don't feel it pulling me back or even feel limited with other options. Interesting.


----------



## pearljam50000

If I had the Abyss I'd be dying to use it every second I can (;


----------



## plakat

pearljam50000 said:


> If I had the Abyss I'd be dying to use it every second I can (;


 

 I can understand that and would have thought so myself... And would not have believed anybody, who might have told me, what I was trying to say above: the real joy of music does not come automatically with the most expensive gear. You don't miss out. At least not in the way you might think... not even close.
  
 Which is not to say that the Abyss is not an excellent, even exceptional headphone, it most certainly is. But it is so far on the right part on the curve of diminishing returns...
  
 Best advice I could give: get some music. Then some more. Diversify. Enjoy. Music is the key. Not the gear. There is a well-affordable level of excellent headphones available these days, electronics such as Amps and DACs the same. Spent some money on music instead of longing for the high-end stuff. Overall enjoyment might be greater that way.


----------



## isquirrel

Cables for the Abyss are finished and on their way, will report with listening impressions when they have arrived. The actual cables are shown below.


----------



## warrior1975

isquirrel- beautiful cables, who makes them?


----------



## isquirrel

warrior1975 said:


> @isquirrel- beautiful cables, who makes them?


 

 Double Helix Cables - Peter Bradstock


----------



## warrior1975

Love the looks... Damn cables, love beautiful cables like that. Enjoy!!


----------



## yates7592

Presumably there is some improvement in SQ with these cables over the stock? How much do they cost? Any idea vs Endorphin cables?


----------



## warrior1975

I don't know about those specific cables but I have heard a difference between cables. More so when it Cooper vs silver, as opposed to company a vs company b both being the same inside. Sorry I'm a bit exhausted and the word I'm looking for is not entering my head. The cable debates are often here though. I usually buy cables for the aesthetics, but improvement in sound is an added bonus.


----------



## isquirrel

yates7592 said:


> Presumably there is some improvement in SQ with these cables over the stock? How much do they cost? Any idea vs Endorphin cables?


 

 They left the US today so maybe will have them by the end of week. Will post some impressions once they have had a bit of running time.


----------



## seeteeyou

This is Spore 4 Fusion @ 10'
  
 http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19&products_id=156
  





  
  
 Here is the original Silver Spore @ 6'
  
 http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=49
  




  
  
 Just wondering if Pulse HB headphone cables were costing as much as Abyss itself?


----------



## yates7592

Wow, that's pricey. Looking forward to a report on how they sound.


----------



## David1961

Why does a $5500 headphone need a custom cable ? especially seeing how JPS Labs specialise in cables.

Yes I have a custom cable for my HD-600, but when I got that headphone it cost me around £250.


----------



## preproman

I just got the Abyss lite.  The cable that comes with the lite is OK I guess.  Not to the level of cable that comes with the full version.  I just purchased a Solv X from Norne (Trevor).  Just have to wait until it gets here.


----------



## warrior1975

I thought they were the same cable


----------



## preproman

I may be mistaken.  I thought the Full version got a better cable.  Well, I may not know what the hell I'm talking about then..
  
 The cable I got is a black cable that says:
  
 JPS Labs Abyss Headphone cable Alumiloy Conductors Made in the USA.


----------



## warrior1975

I thought the full version was with the case and stand, I could be mistaken though.


----------



## plakat

warrior1975 said:


> I thought the full version was with the case and stand, I could be mistaken though.


 

 Plus the two adapters (XL4 -> 2xXLR, SE->2xXLR). Doesn't the lite coem with an XL4 cable? But I don't think that its a different material... as if that mattered.


----------



## warrior1975

I believe you are correct, I forgot about the adapters. I think the wire and headphones are the same, just missing the extras. With the lite, just the abyss and the wire...someone correct me if I'm wrong please.


----------



## preproman

The Lite just came with the XLR cable, No extras..


----------



## yates7592

AFAIK the Lite comes with a single xlr4 cable whereas the regular comes with the xlr3 cable plus 2 adaptors for xlr4 and 1/4 inch. I would be surprised if the cable quality on the Lite was inferior to that on the regular because that is not how it is marketed.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The Lite package also comes with a short 4 pin XLR to 1/4" adaptor. So to summarize...

Abyss Deluxe package:

Felt lined wood storage case
AB-1266 headphone
JPS Labs 2.5 meter (8 FT) dual 3 pin XLR cable set (for amps that can accommodate 2 x 3 pin XLR's)
JPS Labs dual 3 pin XLR to 4 pin XLR Y-adaptor
JPS Labs dual 3 pin XLR to 1/4" Y-adaptor
Heavy leather man-bag style carry case
Abyss stand



Abyss Lite package:

Felt lined wood storage
Suede embroidered cover
AB-1266 headphone
JPS Labs 4 pin 2.5 meter (8 FT) XLR dual cable set
JPS Labs 4 pin XLR to 1/4" adaptor



Our 'stock' cable set is equivalent to the best headphone cables available and were designed specifically for the AB-1266 to provide excellent balance and clarity. The value of our cables should not be taken as a subtraction from the value of the headphones but rather our ability to bundle them as a package.


----------



## yates7592

Joe, what type of wire is used in your cables for Abyss?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

We created and refined our own conductor material long ago. Information on JPS cables can be found on our website, http://www.jpslabs.com. 

Our Superconductor V series is similar to the Abyss headphone cables.


----------



## cladane

joe skubinski said:


> We created and refined our own conductor material long ago. Information on JPS cables can be found on our website, http://www.jpslabs.com.
> 
> Our Superconductor V series is similar to the Abyss headphone cables.



I'm confident that a cable company making a high end headphone will put its skills on the bundle cans+cables to reach the best sounding rig. Looking for third party cables is counterproductive.


----------



## yates7592

I'm quite sure that's the case with JPS and Abyss, but you only have to look at Sennheiser and HD800 to start asking questions.....


----------



## David1961

I had the LCD-XC which cost $1795, and I did get a custom cable for that headphone ( I've since sold that XC ), but there's noway I'd get a custom cable for a $5500 headphone, simply because IMO it should already have the best cable JPS Labs do.
Anyway, I thought some believe the Abyss to be the best sounding headphone ever made, to those who believe that then what's a custom cable needed for. :confused_face_2:


----------



## preproman

Custom cables are not "JUST FOR SOUND" other things come into play.  A desired length, Better flexibility, even aesthetics.  That's why they're custom.  
  
 To each is own.  The price of a headphone should not be a deciding factor of if you want a custom cable or not.


----------



## David1961

preproman said:


> Custom cables are not "JUST FOR SOUND" other things come into play.  A desired length, Better flexibility, even aesthetics.  That's why they're custom.
> 
> To each is own.  The price of a headphone should not be a deciding factor of if you want a custom cable or not.




aesthetic's ? :bigsmile_face:


----------



## cladane

preproman said:


> Custom cables are not "JUST FOR SOUND" other things come into play.  A desired length, Better flexibility, even aesthetics.  That's why they're custom.
> 
> To each is own.  The price of a headphone should not be a deciding factor of if you want a custom cable or not.


 

 I agree with you quoting 'Not for Sound'. Also consider I was speaking of Abyss and JPSLabs worldwide awarded for their cables.
 Other cans can be an improvement changing cables even if manufacturers are now aware of the problem. I'm speaking of Grado for ex which worked a lot the cable design for the PS1000e.


----------



## Yoga

With this kind of product (for me), it's function over form. I've never understood anyone put off the Abyss simply by their appearance, and I'd never buy a cable because it only looked better. In the audio world (edit: and the vast majority others), the value is in the performance, not the image.


----------



## up late

a lot of drooling over head-fi porn goes on here. seems to me that head-fi'ers are just as susceptible to being seduced by style over substance as the rest of the audio world.


----------



## warrior1975

up late- completely agree... As I'm staring at my beautiful glowing woo tubes...mesmorized by the physical beauty, not the sound.


----------



## cladane

Agree with the comments. Audiophiles have actually to be cautious where performance (as #Yoga says) sets and where starts 'style' (as per #up late).
  
 Apple showed the way: devices as a piece of fashion. A&K have beautifully taken back per se the model. Highlight yourself through your gear.


----------



## djd1122

fririce0003 said:


> Sounds like it'll be some WA234's then, some Takatsuki 300b and 274b's, Elrog 300b's, Mullard metal base GZ34's and some TSRP's. Makes for a pretty good pairing wugh the abyss


 

 With your WA-234, which do you prefer with the Takatsuki 300B and 274B?  Mullard metal base GZ34s or TSRPs?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Speaking of the WA234 mono amps, Woo Audio will be at The Show Newport Beach (room 446) this weekend with these amps and the Takatsuki 300B and 274B tubes powering Abyss.


----------



## isquirrel

djd1122 said:


> With your WA-234, which do you prefer with the Takatsuki 300B and 274B?  Mullard metal base GZ34s or TSRPs?


 

 Tak 274B with the Elrog 300B or the Tak 300B with the Mullard Metal Base GZ34, both equally good but in different areas. The TSRP is the only driver tube way to go from our testing.


----------



## Fririce0003

djd1122 said:


> With your WA-234, which do you prefer with the Takatsuki 300B and 274B?  Mullard metal base GZ34s or TSRPs?




Findings are much the same as Isquirrel's. Another good combo in the 234 is some NOS Sylvania 45's, Tak 274B's and TSRP. I'd say the best 274's and 300's are the Takatsuki's but both used together is too much of a good thing in my current system.



joe skubinski said:


> Speaking of the WA234 mono amps, Woo Audio will be at The Show Newport Beach (room 446) this weekend with these amps and the Takatsuki 300B and 274B tubes powering Abyss.




That should help bring out their potential! What driver tubes and source are you going to be displaying them with?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

fririce0003 said:


> That should help bring out their potential! What driver tubes and source are you going to be displaying them with?




Not sure, up to Jack @wooaudio. We're getting a set for our WA5 so will need to find the TSRP.


----------



## goobicii

Did anybody tried Bakoon amp in CURRENT mode with Abyss?


----------



## plakat

Mine are still in their bag... thats 6 weeks now. Maybe it's time to sell them. Its not that they weren't excellent headphones (they are), I think it has more to do with the fact that I often listen to music while working, which always includes moving around a bit, putting them down for some minutes and back on. All of which is too much of a hassle with the Abyss after all... Its almost the same with the K812 btw.
  
  
 So if anyone's interested in a pair in mint condition please PM me.


----------



## isquirrel

joe skubinski said:


> Not sure, up to Jack @wooaudio. We're getting a set for our WA5 so will need to find the TSRP.


 

 I have plenty of sets PM me if you are interested


----------



## isquirrel

The DHC spore 4 Fusion HP cables are now well run in and so can report a very worthwhile improvement over stock. The DHC cable when new is a little bright and overwhelming but with +300 hours on it it sounds very good, no loss of any bass performance but adds much greater transparency and depth. My favourite aspect is the increase in rhythm and drive. Abyss sounds much more alive now. Stock cable is very neutral and does the job but he DHC gives the headphone's a more direct connection with the emotion of the music.
  
 Tried it out on my non audiophile GF and she much preferred the DHC cable. Always good to get a fresh perspective on these things.
  
*Fririce0003 *so will be interesting to get his impressions.


----------



## seeteeyou

It's gotta be lots of fun when Pulse HB is married to Abyss for the very first time in June, is Touraj ready yet?


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> The DHC spore 4 Fusion HP cables are now well run in and so can report a very worthwhile improvement over stock. The DHC cable when new is a little bright and overwhelming but with +300 hours on it it sounds very good, no loss of any bass performance but adds much greater transparency and depth. My favourite aspect is the increase in rhythm and drive. Abyss sounds much more alive now. Stock cable is very neutral and does the job but he DHC gives the headphone's a more direct connection with the emotion of the music.
> 
> Tried it out on my non audiophile GF and she much preferred the DHC cable. Always good to get a fresh perspective on these things.
> 
> *Fririce0003 *so will be interesting to get his impressions.


 

 Interesting, thanks.
  
 Did you try the Moon 430 with the Abyss, by the way? I have a vague memory of you saying you'd ordered it.


----------



## isquirrel

seeteeyou said:


> It's gotta be lots of fun when Pulse HB is married to Abyss for the very first time in June, is Touraj ready yet?


 

 Not to sure this is going to happen in time. We shall see. I am very happy with the matching Interconnects which retain the musicality of the Cardas Clear but increase transparency at no loss to the frequency extremes. A cautionary note that they did take a long time to burn in.
  
 I would like to try the Pulse HB IC and the HP cable as they are available. Specs and photos have been sent to Touraj


----------



## isquirrel

yoga said:


> Interesting, thanks.
> 
> Did you try the Moon 430 with the Abyss, by the way? I have a vague memory of you saying you'd ordered it.


 

 Yep I did, dealer (A2A) still doesn't have them in yet. Have a new DAC coming which is interesting its built entirely around the Philips 1543/N2 DAC chips running 16 in parallel (8 for each channel) which does away with the need for a separate output stage as there is enough gain. Does 24/192 no DSD. It is a NOS R2R DAC.


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> Yep I did, dealer (A2A) still doesn't have them in yet. Have a new DAC coming which is interesting its built entirely around the Philips 1543/N2 DAC chips running 16 in parallel (8 for each channel) which does away with the need for a separate output stage as there is enough gain. Does 24/192 no DSD. It is a NOS R2R DAC.
 

 Some great potential there, which dac is it?
  
 Have you heard this, by the way?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/729408/viva-egoista-845-set-tube-amplifier-10k-headphone-masterpiece


----------



## goobicii

I wonder,why is the side with magnets facing ears and not other way? you could then mod it to remove everything between ear and driver,no magnets in way....  yes it doesnt have magnets on other side but there is still the sponge thingy and the metal cage,I want to buy Abyss,then mod it so the magnetless side is aimed at ears


----------



## up late

plakat said:


> Mine are still in their bag... thats 6 weeks now. Maybe it's time to sell them. Its not that they weren't excellent headphones (they are), I think it has more to do with the fact that I often listen to music while working, which always includes moving around a bit, putting them down for some minutes and back on. All of which is too much of a hassle with the Abyss after all... Its almost the same with the K812 btw.
> 
> 
> So if anyone's interested in a pair in mint condition please PM me.




beginning to think you might be too sane for this hobby


----------



## plakat

up late said:


> beginning to think you might be too sane for this hobby


 

 I'm not modest enough to not take that as a compliment...
  
 But I'll tell my wife there's still someone left thinking I might be sane


----------



## Sorrodje

@plakat : Maybe the HE1000 is what you look for  
  
  
 I know I don't help you to be sane.


----------



## plakat

sorrodje said:


> @plakat : Maybe the HE1000 is what you look for
> 
> 
> I know I don't help you to be sane.


 

 Well, thank you for not being helpful in that regard 
  
 I checked the HE1000 at the High End show in Munich and it was not to my taste (sound as well as build quality and comfort).
  
 But I do have a Pioneer Master-1 on order... so sanity is a relative quantity I guess


----------



## Sorrodje

plakat said:


> Well, thank you for not being helpful in that regard
> 
> I checked the HE1000 at the High End show in Munich and it was not to my taste (sound as well as build quality and comfort).
> 
> But I do have a Pioneer Master-1 on order... so sanity is a relative quantity I guess


 
  
 What did you not like with the HEK ?  . I thought it was a great headphone for relaxed listens during work.


----------



## plakat

sorrodje said:


> What did you not like with the HEK ?  . I thought it was a great headphone for relaxed listens during work.


 

 I found its sound a bit too polite, too... maybe even laid back. It just did not pull me in.
  
 But what I found really troublesome is that the build quality is not at a 3,5k level. There are sharp edges that will leave scars on the pads soon, the whole construction feels a bit home-made. There are no stops, the cups rotate too much etc. The cups are much too big for me, even on the smallest setting they extend down to my jaws which made wearing them uncomfortable. The headband is nice and comfortable, but all in all I'd not want to wear them for longer. I have to admit that so far I did not find any Hifiman model to my liking, so Dr. Bians and my taste seem to differ.
  
 I really like their look though...


----------



## isquirrel

yoga said:


> Some great potential there, which dac is it?
> 
> Have you heard this, by the way?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/729408/viva-egoista-845-set-tube-amplifier-10k-headphone-masterpiece


 

 Computer Audio Design 1543 DAC now in MK2 version. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the DaVinci although LH have just released plans for a MK2 upgrade of that.
  
 http://www.computeraudiodesign.com
  
 Have not heard the Viva sounds interesting especially as the 845 is a great tube. Though TBH the Woo 234's are sending so good, I can also run 45's and 2A3's and have a number of different options as to how each tube is driven by using the multitude of output keys. I have found that using the DHC cables I no longer am tuning around them with tube selection. *Fririce0003 *has just ordered a set for his Abyss.* *


----------



## isquirrel

plakat said:


> I found its sound a bit too polite, too... maybe even laid back. It just did not pull me in.
> 
> But what I found really troublesome is that the build quality is not at a 3,5k level. There are sharp edges that will leave scars on the pads soon, the whole construction feels a bit home-made. There are no stops, the cups rotate too much etc. The cups are much too big for me, even on the smallest setting they extend down to my jaws which made wearing them uncomfortable. The headband is nice and comfortable, but all in all I'd not want to wear them for longer. I have to admit that so far I did not find any Hifiman model to my liking, so Dr. Bians and my taste seem to differ.
> 
> I really like their look though...


 

 Hmm that seems to be a common issue with Hi Fi man - anything less than 100% build quality is unacceptable at the level it is pitched at. Although we have not seen production samples yet. Still trying to find out what mods Purrin did to his Abyss, it seems that he's lost a bit of interest in HP's ATM.


----------



## plakat

isquirrel said:


> Hmm that seems to be a common issue with Hi Fi man - anything less than 100% build quality is unacceptable at the level it is pitched at. Although we have not seen production samples yet.


 
  
 Thats the thing: at this price point (3500€) build quality should be nothing less than perfect. Yes, these were still (late) pre-series samples, but Dr. Bian said, the aspects I mentioned won't change in production. So much for that.
  
 Given that its not the first Hifiman headphone, one could expect more love for detail, or at least I would. I don't see such an issue with the Abyss, yet this is JPS' first headphone...


----------



## up late

the he1000's ear cups do look enormous - shame about the build quality. will be giving them an audition tho and hopefully get to compare them directly with the abyss.


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> Computer Audio Design 1543 DAC now in MK2 version. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the DaVinci although LH have just released plans for a MK2 upgrade of that.
> 
> http://www.computeraudiodesign.com
> 
> Have not heard the Viva sounds interesting especially as the 845 is a great tube. Though TBH the Woo 234's are sending so good, I can also run 45's and 2A3's and have a number of different options as to how each tube is driven by using the multitude of output keys. I have found that using the DHC cables I no longer am tuning around them with tube selection. *Fririce0003 *has just ordered a set for his Abyss.* *


 

 Ah, a UK based copany. Might have to give them a call for a demo, looks like a great unit. Will be very interested to see how it stacks up against the DaVinci.
  
 Also, stop making me want those cables. $2500! :¬)


----------



## seeteeyou

Duchess Crown from Siltech could be another choice since Peter himself should agree that's one of the best in that price range. Usually it's meant for HD800 but someone did place a special order for his gorgeous Sony Qualia Q10
  
 http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-236277-1-1.html
  




  
  
 1,000 bucks (6,200 RMB) for the balanced version of Duchess Crown @ 2 meters with Neutrik connectors
  
 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=40435080330
  




  
 Add another $300 for the balanced version with Furutech CF-601M connectors, they should have a loaner program for US customers
  
 http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Duchess-Crown
  
  
 I bought Duchess Crown from another local Head-Fi guy recently and a pair of HD800 to mini XLR adapters should do the trick
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/609155/toxic-cables-impressions-and-discussion-thread/2775#post_9268812


----------



## zachchen1996

seeteeyou said:


> Duchess Crown from Siltech could be another choice since Peter himself should agree that's one of the best in that price range. Usually it's meant for HD800 but someone did place a special order for his gorgeous Sony Qualia Q10


 
  
 Why not the new DHC Silver Spore4?


----------



## cladane

yoga said:


> Ah, a UK based copany. Might have to give them a call for a demo, looks like a great unit. Will be very interested to see how it stacks up against the DaVinci.
> 
> Also, stop making me want those cables. $2500! :¬)


 

 Same prices and technology (NOS and R2R) but more functions, in France, there is TotalDAC.


----------



## cladane

isquirrel said:


> Computer Audio Design 1543 DAC now in MK2 version. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the DaVinci although LH have just released plans for a MK2 upgrade of that.
> 
> http://www.computeraudiodesign.com
> 
> Have not heard the Viva sounds interesting especially as the 845 is a great tube. Though TBH the Woo 234's are sending so good, I can also run 45's and 2A3's and have a number of different options as to how each tube is driven by using the multitude of output keys. I have found that using the DHC cables I no longer am tuning around them with tube selection. *Fririce0003 *has just ordered a set for his Abyss.* *


 

 My concerns about the 234's is that a highly designed tube amp is precisely fitted to the tubes chosen by the amp architect. Particularly when speaking of 'haute couture' like Viva work.
 Tube Rolling imply nearly perfect design but not perfect since the manufacturer allows you tonality changes in his work. Like a song writer whom you could change the partition at your will.
  
 Then you get infinite headfi threads like the one about Apex Teton where forumers compare the Teton to the EC 445 and its multiple tubes possibilities never reaching to a concensus even using the same HD800 headphones.
  
 But forums are there for this, isn't it ??


----------



## HiFiGuy528

The Abyss is the most dynamic, smooth, and big sounding headphones I've used to-date.  These are comfortable to wear (once it's fitted to you) for an extended period and does not feel like they'll fall off my head.  Proper amplification and fit are VERY important with this headphone.
  
 I think if the Abyss was all white in color (gloss pure white), they would have a softer look.


----------



## yates7592

hifiguy528 said:


> The Abyss is the most dynamic, smooth, and big sounding headphones I've used to-date.  These are comfortable to wear (once it's fitted to you) for an extended period and does not feel like they'll fall off my head.  Proper amplification and fit are VERY important with this headphone.


 
  
 +1
  
 Early days yet, but following on from my bad audition experience I am now listening at home on a second hand pair through my Headtrip amp (which is totally awesome). However I currently have several very weak links in the chain, but even through my existing mediocre DAC, crappy IC cables and £2 adaptors, I can say Abyss is easily a league or two ahead of HD800 (which I loved but have since sold), especially in terms of soundstage depth and width, dynamics and bass. More detailed impressions to come when transport, DAC, interconnect and HP cable upgrades are complete and a full evaluation can be made. Agree fit IS very critical. I am finding that a full seal is optimal on any music with significant bass content.


----------



## cladane

Nice news from you yates7592.
  
 For sure the Headtrip is a hell of an SS amp. I don't know what suits better the Abyss: SS or tubes. Will try end of June the Viva Egoista.
  
 Wouldn't the Abyss compare more to the LCD-X or PS1000e than HD800 ?? Speaking of Classical I presume ?


----------



## yates7592

Having listened to Abyss for quite a few hours now, IMO the sound signature does not really match LCD or HD800 but my first impressions are that it improves on the best of both, e.g. bass better than LCDxx and soundstage better than HD800. I need to get my overall system upgraded to comment more.  
  
 I'm listening mostly to rock, reggae, some jazz, but not classical, so I can't comment on that.
  
 SS vs tube? I haven't heard any tube amps with Abyss but Joe @ JPS seems to think both types have their place with Abyss. The Viva Egoista looks very special also and the price makes me feel much better about dropping $7K on my Headtrip. I would be very interested to hear what you think about the Egoista with Abyss.


----------



## Yoga

I'm very tempted by the Viva also, but to be fair, still in musical bliss with this Neo 430.
  
 Perhaps next year I'll add a tube amp :¬)
  
 Glad you're enjoying it yates!


----------



## superfred21

Egoista  Viva is a higher step to abyss.
 Incredible dynamic bass like thunder, ,large resolution,  smooth voice
 Amplifier very impressive


----------



## Yoga

superfred21 said:


> Egoista  Viva is a higher step to abyss.
> Incredible dynamic bass like thunder, ,large resolution,  smooth voice
> Amplifier very impressive


 

 How long did you get to listento the pairing for, and where? :¬)


----------



## superfred21

yoga said:


> How long did you get to listento the pairing for, and where? :¬)


 
 I tested the Egoista one hour to Munich with my Abyss.


----------



## Yoga

superfred21 said:


> I tested the Egoista one hour to Munich with my Abyss.


 

 What other top tier tube and solid state amps have you heard to compare the 845 to?


----------



## superfred21

yoga said:


> What other top tier tube and solid state amps have you heard to compare the 845 to?


 
  
 For the most famous amps tested :
  

 -        HeadAmp GS X  MKII
 -        Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold
 -        All amps Eddie Current Exception  2A3 MK4
 -        Schiit Ragnarok, Mjolnir
 -        ALO audioStudio Six
 -        Woo audio WA5 ; WA22
 -        MOON Neo 430HA
 -        Cypher Labs PRAUTES
 -        HifiMan EF 1000
 -        Luxman P700u
 -        Auralic Taurus
 Rudistor RP -030 ; RP8K-VT
  
 Pinnacle Apex...
  
 I forget it certainly


----------



## Yoga

superfred21 said:


> For the most famous amps tested :
> 
> 
> -        HeadAmp GS X  MKII
> ...


 

 That's some list!
  
 Which of those have you heard the Abyss with?


----------



## superfred21

yoga said:


> That's some list!
> 
> Which of those have you heard the Abyss with?


 
  
 I tested the Abyss with all these exception amp Apex Pinnacle.


----------



## isquirrel

So the age old debate regales on between SS and Tube amps, truth is they present a different sound, I started off with SS amps and found it was valves that I fell in love with. Then of course you have the never ending debate over which valves work best in specific amps, my experience that this again is very much down to personal preference. The cost of running tubes is on going and the joy for me is finding new NOS valves that open up a different sonic door.  
  
 I have a friend with 234's and we both have comp;lately different musical tastes but generally reach the same conclusions about Tubes. Recently been trying some 80 year old 45's which sound fantastic. is the 234 better than the Egoista, frankly I am so happy with the sound I am getting that I don't care. It would be different for sure and it would depend on what you did with tubes for both.
  
 He spent the weekend with me listening for hours to the Abyss (he got me switched on the Abyss) and the 1st thing he wanted to try out was the DHC cables versus stock, he much preferred the DHC cables. I have arranged for Peter form DHC to try the same cables but in pure silver version. I am a little concerned that they could tip the balance to be bright, he says otherwise. We will see and I will post the comparison here in about a months time.
  
 We both felt the DHC cables really open up the Abyss and the sound is very musical. Fririce0003 found that the stock cables sounded sterile and flat in comparison.
  
 He is going to post his in depth impression here soon, so will leave the last word up to him.


----------



## Yoga

superfred21 said:


> I tested the Abyss with all these exception amp Apex Pinnacle.


 
  
 Blimey! What was your favourite solid state amp, and tube amp (bar the 845) in your tests?
  


isquirrel said:


> So the age old debate regales on between SS and Tube amps, truth is they present a different sound, I started off with SS amps and found it was valves that I fell in love with. Then of course you have the never ending debate over which valves work best in specific amps, my experience that this again is very much down to personal preference. The cost of running tubes is on going and the joy for me is finding new NOS valves that open up a different sonic door.
> 
> I have a friend with 234's and we both have comp;lately different musical tastes but generally reach the same conclusions about Tubes. Recently been trying some 80 year old 45's which sound fantastic. is the 234 better than the Egoista, frankly I am so happy with the sound I am getting that I don't care. It would be different for sure and it would depend on what you did with tubes for both.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Stop making me want those cables damn it! :¬)


----------



## isquirrel

yoga said:


> Stop making me want those cables damn it! :¬)


 
 Sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 however with Fririce0003 also reaching the same conclusions - pretty much immediately - there seems to be little choice ion the matter. The Spore 4 fusion with copper/silver the current version I have and is half that much. I think it was $1,200.


----------



## superfred21

yoga said:


> Blimey! What was your favourite solid state amp, and tube amp (bar the 845) in your tests?
> 
> 
> Stop making me want those cables damn it! :¬)


 
*Solid state amp* : Schiit Ragnarok ; Mass Ko Bo 394 ; Luxman P700u
*Tube amp *:  Eddie Current Balancing Act ; Viva 2A3
*The best of the best *: Viva Egoista


----------



## yates7592

Do it Yoga, you know you want to, resistance is futile.....
  
 There is a link on the DHC website to a fairly long review of Silver Spore with HD800 (in Japanese). Based on my browser's rather patchy interpretation, this is what I think the reviewer may be saying about the main changes he noticed with Silver Spore (on the HD800):
  
 1. Soundstage - "left, right, up, down, spread of depth is an unprecedented open" - "illusion that you are listening to the speakers at high volume"
 2. Neutral / transparent sound - "it does not seem to aim the sharpness" - "a thing that can be felt an even thick sound spacious" - "sparkling beauty and bulk of high frequency" - "rather than silver cable there are also sound side as copper cable" - "Spore is a warm impression against it"
 3. Dynamics (?? not sure exactly here) - "force sensation of this unique sound" - "sound pressure is I feel as high as unusual" - "in the barrage of kick drum, but to kick soft sound pressure is rhythmically the eardrum but I feel a strong underlying strength on its impact"
 4. Detail resolution - "sound number of further background of fine sound in Spore increases here or I will not be at the limit of headphones" - "fine degree of texture depiction of atmosphere making sound terrific coupled with surrounding sense of 360-degree sound"
  
 I've ordered the all-Silver Spore cables, should be here in about 2-3 weeks time I hope. I think they will be spectacular with Abyss. Peter says that the stereotypes of copper ('darker') vs silver ('brighter') go out of the window when considering his 22 awg 4 litz OCC silver, which is apparently "a more detailed version of copper".


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> Sorry
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I can't seem to find that particular cable. Would you be so kind as to point me to it? Think I'll go for it :¬)


----------



## yates7592

Copper/silver Spore:
 http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19&products_id=156
  
 All Silver Spore:
 http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=49


----------



## subtle

$2500 for a headphone cable.  Lord have mercy.


----------



## yates7592

yoga said:


> I can't seem to find that particular cable. Would you be so kind as to point me to it? Think I'll go for it :¬)


----------



## isquirrel

There you go
  
http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19&products_id=156


----------



## Yoga

yates7592 said:


> Copper/silver Spore:
> http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19&products_id=156
> 
> All Silver Spore:
> http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=49


 
  
  


isquirrel said:


> There you go
> 
> http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19&products_id=156


 
  
 Cheers fellas.
  
 $600 - half of what you mentioned recently. Having expected $1200, I feel like I've just saved money ;¬)


----------



## seeteeyou

It's starting at $600 and that's just the cheapest Copper Complement4 option.
  
 Fusion (Copper+Silver) Spore4 is the "real" flagship and that would added another $750 @ 4' plus more for longer lengths.
  
 That means it's more like $1,369.99 for the minimum 4' length but most of us would order something longer.


----------



## Yoga

seeteeyou said:


> It's starting at $600 and that's just the cheapest Copper Complement4 option.
> 
> Fusion (Copper+Silver) Spore4 is the "real" flagship and that would added another $750 @ 4' plus more for longer lengths.
> 
> That means it's more like $1,369.99 for the minimum 4' length but most of us would order something longer.


 
  
 Dang.
  
 Cheers for the heads up :¬)


----------



## seeteeyou

Well, actually the ULTIMATE flagship would be $12K Spore M and another Head-Fi member already got it
  
 http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=100
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/760249/mrspeakers-ether-impressions-thread/735#post_11596642
  


visceriouszero said:


> Just wanted to share...
> 
> 
> Ethers running out of a Aurora HEADA, connected to an AK500N...
> ...


----------



## Fririce0003

Finally found the time to sit down and write out my impressions on the DHC Spore4 Fusion versus the stock JPS cable in Isquirrel's system. Please enjoy.
  
   The first thing I noticed after changing the cables over was a change in presentation for the better, the soundstage was widened and had more depth to it, not only was it larger but placement of instruments was also nicer. The stock cable presented a wide image, but everything was coming from in front, switching to the DHC instruments would fill from the sides placed at differing depths. You could get a sense of height as cymbals soared in from above and vocals were more warm and intimate.
   Bass was also improved, there was more of it, but control over it was heightened, it was faster and more visceral. Mids were warmer and fuller adding sophistication and musicality to the music. Highs were crisp yet smooth, gone were the slightly harsh and sometimes sibilant qualities of the upper frequencies. The overall effect was a much more musical sound whilst still retaining and even improving on detail retrieval.
   After listening to the changes the Spore4 made the stock cable sounded flat, thin and harsh in its presentation, also despite the slight increase in weight the cables didn't alter the fit and comfort of the Abyss. During listening the thing that struck me the most was that I would just get lost enjoying the music, I had to actively remind myself to listen analytically for changes and details. Not that it was hard to hear the details, micro details were all still there and some extras I hadn't previously heard, but it was just such an enjoyable listen that I couldn't help but listen to the music rather than pick it apart. I think that alone speaks volumes, it brought an uncanny ability to convey the music seamlessly and musically so much so that you are completely enthralled by it. But it does so without skimping on detail retrieval in the slightest.
   Yes it is a decently priced cable, but to put the improvement in perspective the only other comparison done on the day that brought more improvement in enjoyment and musicality without taking a step back was going from an Auralic Vega to the LH Davinci. There's a big disparity between the price of the DaVinci and the Spore4. In my system the biggest upgrade will be from changing my DAC, but next up would be buying the Spore4 to replace the stock cables.


----------



## yates7592

Thanks very much for your thoughts, sounds like a fantastic cable, looking forward to receiving mine.


----------



## Yoga

fririce0003 said:


> Yes it is a decently priced cable, but to put the improvement in perspective the only other comparison done on the day that brought more improvement in enjoyment and musicality without taking a step back was going from an Auralic Vega to the LH Davinci. There's a big disparity between the price of the DaVinci and the Spore4. In my system the biggest upgrade will be from changing my DAC, but next up would be buying the Spore4 to replace the stock cables.


 
  
 That is one hell of a recommendation. Along with isquirrel's review, I'll be ordering very soon - thanks guys!

 By the way - isquirrel - what options did you choose for the cable (specifically the termination)? Would like to mirror the combination you opted for.


----------



## zachchen1996

fririce0003 said:


> Finally found the time to sit down and write out my impressions on the DHC Spore4 Fusion versus the stock JPS cable in Isquirrel's system. Please enjoy.
> 
> The first thing I noticed after changing the cables over was a change in presentation for the better, the soundstage was widened and had more depth to it, not only was it larger but placement of instruments was also nicer. The stock cable presented a wide image, but everything was coming from in front, switching to the DHC instruments would fill from the sides placed at differing depths. You could get a sense of height as cymbals soared in from above and vocals were more warm and intimate.
> Bass was also improved, there was more of it, but control over it was heightened, it was faster and more visceral. Mids were warmer and fuller adding sophistication and musicality to the music. Highs were crisp yet smooth, gone were the slightly harsh and sometimes sibilant qualities of the upper frequencies. The overall effect was a much more musical sound whilst still retaining and even improving on detail retrieval.
> ...


 
  
 Peter's products are always top notch, I'm hoping to get some Spore4 cables for myself as well.


----------



## HighNFidelity

Does anyone know for certain that if I were to purchase one of these fine cables from Peter for my LCD3f that I would then be able to use them without any adaptor on a future set of Abyss cans? I've read that they share the same mini XLR plugs but I want to be certain.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Yoga

That's a great question!


----------



## Fririce0003

highnfidelity said:


> Does anyone know for certain that if I were to purchase one of these fine cables from Peter for my LCD3f that I would then be able to use them without any adaptor on a future set of Abyss cans? I've read that they share the same mini XLR plugs but I want to be certain.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.




No, not possible, Audeze is 4 pin mini xlr, abyss is 3 pin mini... A 4 pin female will insert into the Abyss but it will short stuff out due to the difference in wiring. I would not advise. A 3 pin mini will not however insert into the Audeze headphones. 
 For reference on the Audeze, pin 1&2 are hot and 3&4 being cold. For the abyss, pin 1 is ground, pin 2 is hot and pin 3 is cold. From memory. So inserting the Audeze cable into the abyss will short the signal to ground, your amp will not like this. 
 Please note the pin outs may not be exact and are from memory. I did however meter the cables out using my multimeter (Fluke 117) and recall that it would short the amp out.
 Peter does however make short adaptors that can be used at a reasonable price.


----------



## HighNFidelity

fririce0003 said:


> No, not possible, Audeze is 4 pin mini xlr, abyss is 3 pin mini... A 4 pin female will insert into the Abyss but it will short stuff out due to the difference in wiring. I would not advise. A 3 pin mini will not however insert into the Audeze headphones.
> For reference on the Audeze, pin 1&2 are hot and 3&4 being cold. For the abyss, pin 1 is ground, pin 2 is hot and pin 3 is cold. From memory. So inserting the Audeze cable into the abyss will short the signal to ground, your amp will not like this.
> Please note the pin outs may not be exact and are from memory. I did however meter the cables out using my multimeter (Fluke 117) and recall that it would short the amp out.
> Peter does however make short adaptors that can be used at a reasonable price.





Very informative!
Thanks for taking the time.


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> No, not possible, Audeze is 4 pin mini xlr, abyss is 3 pin mini... A 4 pin female will insert into the Abyss but it will short stuff out due to the difference in wiring. I would not advise. A 3 pin mini will not however insert into the Audeze headphones.
> For reference on the Audeze, pin 1&2 are hot and 3&4 being cold. For the abyss, pin 1 is ground, pin 2 is hot and pin 3 is cold. From memory. So inserting the Audeze cable into the abyss will short the signal to ground, your amp will not like this.
> Please note the pin outs may not be exact and are from memory. I did however meter the cables out using my multimeter (Fluke 117) and recall that it would short the amp out.
> Peter does however make short adaptors that can be used at a reasonable price.


 

 The adapters are well worth getting, they are made out the same cable and sleeving as your main DHC cables so they fit in well. I got some made up so I will post a photo when I am back at home in a few days.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

All this talk about cable is putting me in the mood to create an over-the-top aftermarket JPS Labs cable for the AB-1266. Stay tuned...


----------



## up late

give 'em what they want joe and make a killing


----------



## isquirrel

joe skubinski said:


> All this talk about cable is putting me in the mood to create an over-the-top aftermarket JPS Labs cable for the AB-1266. Stay tuned...


 

 Excellent ! I am sure as the manufacturer you could do fantastic job.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

cladane said:


> Nice news from you yates7592.
> 
> For sure the Headtrip is a hell of an SS amp. I don't know what suits better the Abyss: SS or tubes. Will try end of June the Viva Egoista.
> 
> *Wouldn't the Abyss compare more to the LCD-X or PS1000e than HD800 ?? Speaking of Classical I presume ?*


 
  
 Those are not even close to Abyss....  HE-1000 is next in line behind Abyss on sound alone.  Both headphones require high quality power and lots of it to reach potential.


----------



## Kiats

We look forward to the totl abyss cable, Joe!


----------



## yates7592

joe skubinski said:


> All this talk about cable is putting me in the mood to create an over-the-top aftermarket JPS Labs cable for the AB-1266. Stay tuned...


 

 Damn, thought I was done with cables.


----------



## Fririce0003

joe skubinski said:


> All this talk about cable is putting me in the mood to create an over-the-top aftermarket JPS Labs cable for the AB-1266. Stay tuned...




Looking forward to it, will they be a new design or more an aluminata-esque cable? I have a feeling that an aluminata style cable may be a little too heavy for headphone cables due to the particle sheild.


----------



## Yoga

joe skubinski said:


> All this talk about cable is putting me in the mood to create an over-the-top aftermarket JPS Labs cable for the AB-1266. Stay tuned...


 

 I might just hold off on the Spore4 then!
  
 Might... :¬)


----------



## Joe Skubinski

fririce0003 said:


> Looking forward to it, will they be a new design or more an aluminata-esque cable? I have a feeling that an aluminata style cable may be a little too heavy for headphone cables due to the particle sheild.




We have lots of ingredients to bake with. Our silly expensive Super Aluminata line uses a very fine copper particle shield, and cool XLR's, just have to scale it down. We'll see what sounds best and go from there...


----------



## cladane

joe skubinski said:


> All this talk about cable is putting me in the mood to create an over-the-top aftermarket JPS Labs cable for the AB-1266. Stay tuned...


 

 Not bad idea and it lets think that the Abyss is not priced high enough. Buyers are not washed out purchasing them....


----------



## sathyam

I ordered a Spore4 all silver cable from Peter. I should get in 2-3 weeks.


----------



## yates7592

@ sathyam:
I'm not certain of the relative benefits of the all-silver Spore vs the copper/silver Fusion version. But my gut instinct is that the former will be the best match with Abyss; which is why I also went for all-silver. Hopefully mine arrives before yours as I ordered mine 2 weeks ago!


----------



## isquirrel

yates7592 said:


> @ sathyam:
> I'm not certain of the relative benefits of the all-silver Spore vs the copper/silver Fusion version. But my gut instinct is that the former will be the best match with Abyss; which is why I also went for all-silver. Hopefully mine arrives before yours as I ordered mine 2 weeks ago!




Peter, sent me an email to this morning, the delivery of the silver has been quicker than he expected so we should all have our cables in 2-3 weeks. I am looking forward to doing a comparison between both cables. He says the Silver should not be bright but should be even more detailed and open. Which is a scary prospect.

Has anyone here who owns the Abyss also heard the HE-1000 in their systems?

I would think that the standard cables that the HEK comes with would be holding it back a fair bit


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> Peter, sent me an email to this morning, the delivery of the silver has been quicker than he expected so we should all have our cables in 2-3 weeks. I am looking forward to doing a comparison between both cables. He says the Silver should not be bright but should be even more detailed and open. Which is a scary prospect.
> 
> Has anyone here who owns the Abyss also heard the HE-1000 in their systems?
> 
> I would think that the standard cables that the HEK comes with would be holding it back a fair bit


 

 I shall await your verdict before purchasing. Thanks.


----------



## preproman

isquirrel said:


> Has anyone here who owns the Abyss also heard the HE-1000 in their systems?


 
  
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/767883/official-hifiman-he1000-impressions-thread/450#post_11670499


----------



## isquirrel

preproman said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/767883/official-hifiman-he1000-impressions-thread/450#post_11670499


 

 Thank you, excellent impressions. I have decided to sell my Audeze's and buy the HEK. From reading your impressions there seems to be enough of a difference to make the HEK and addition not a replacement.
  
 Could you share your thoughts on the build quality and construction please. Did you try running them balanced and if so how much difference did that make?


----------



## preproman

The construction on the LCD-3F and Abyss feels more solid, because of the real wood and steel.  The HE1K feels really light but also flimsy compared to the other two.
  
 I only have a balanced setup, so I don't have an opportunity to test them on a SE setup.  
  
 My thinking on that is an inherently SE setup should sound just as good or even better in some cases compared to an inherently balanced setup.  It's when you have an inherently balanced setup and use the SE output.  That's when the SQ gets f*&%$ up..
  
 I think I'm going to keep my LCD-3F (because I love mids) and be a sort of late adopter on the HE1K.


----------



## isquirrel

preproman said:


> The construction on the LCD-3F and Abyss feels more solid, because of the real wood and steal.  The HE1K feels really light but also flimsy compared to the other two.
> 
> I only have a balanced setup, so I don't have an opportunity to test them on a SE setup.
> 
> ...


 

 I agree, there is no need to go balanced unless you are dealing with long runs of Interconnects. The new DAC I am getting next week (its not replacing the DaVinci that's being sent back to be upgraded to the new MKII "extreme" spec) only uses RCA's and the designer has tested both and gets better SQ from single ended. The Woo's are inherently a single ended design as well.
  
 Shame the HEK feel flimsy, form the photos they look quite solid and well built, maybe as you say its best to hold off until they have sorted any issues before jumping in. I love the mids on my 3F's too, however the new DHC cables have worked wonders for the Abyss in that department. Only thing that annoys me is trying work on the computer with them moving around.
  
 I thought the HEK 's would be an upgrade over the 3F's, but that doesn't seem to be the case.


----------



## preproman

It's very hard to say if the are an upgrade over the 3Fs.  Some say they are I'm not so sure.  IMO they're not an upgrade at all over the Abyss.


----------



## isquirrel

Hmm thanks, I was getting excited, bit of a let down actually


----------



## preproman

Oh no - there're good ha ha ha...  You would just have the hear them for yourself and decide..  There're lots of impressions in that thread. They do soudstage size width and heigth better than the 3Fs, Mids = no.  Bass presents is good on both.  Air is better on the HE1K.  Maybe more detail as well, but I don't think so.


----------



## Yoga

Another great HE1K / Abyss comparison...
  
post #4093


----------



## isquirrel

Is it me or do the impressions seem to vary a lot? I am coming to the conclusion that its something I need to try out, seems to be very amp dependant so might contact jack Woo and see what he thinks of them. Also all of the comparisons have been done with he stock cables which one would think would not be nearly as good as the JPS cable. Anyone else here contemplating them?


----------



## sathyam

I just my Macbook Pro. Wow what a difference the source makes! I previously had a Dell XPS15 with an SSD. The difference is like night and day between the MBP and the XPS15 with the Abyss. It's like the AB-1266 is a whole new HP.

I am salivating at upgrading to an Aurender X100L next year. I read that it did beat the MBP handily. For now, I am going to enjoy my music with the MBP.

I am still using the DirectStream and LiAu in the pipeline.


----------



## galacticsoap

Hi Everyone,
  
 Do you think the Retro Stereo 50's Headphone Amp will drive the Abyss 1266?
  
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/retro-stereo-50/
  
 The marketing copy from iFi suggest:
  
_The 6.3mm output pumps out a “turbo-charged” 7,000mW. So even the most demanding of headphones such as the HiFi Man HE-6 has met its match._
  
 I'm on the market for a new pair of cans. Most of my headphone listening is to EDM. I'm coming from a pair of LCD-X's/XC's. I was considering the LCD-3F as it's apparently a more musical than the X without giving up too much speed due to the Fazor update. However my dealer told me to go straight for the Abyss if I listen to EDM.
  
 Would love to hear everyone's thoughts.
  
 Thanks,
 GS


----------



## yates7592

sathyam said:


> I just my Macbook Pro. Wow what a difference the source makes! I previously had a Dell XPS15 with an SSD. The difference is like night and day between the MBP and the XPS15 with the Abyss. It's like the AB-1266 is a whole new HP.


 
  
 Interesting. What are the differences?


----------



## Yoga

galacticsoap said:


> I'm on the market for a new pair of cans. Most of my headphone listening is to EDM. I'm coming from a pair of LCD-X's/XC's. I was considering the LCD-3F as it's apparently a more musical than the X without giving up too much speed due to the Fazor update. However my dealer told me to go straight for the Abyss if I listen to EDM.
> 
> Would love to hear everyone's thoughts.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I listen to a lot of electronic music, both ambient and with beats (Shpongle, Trentemoeller & Abakus being examples) and auditioned the 3F, X and then the Abyss, quite extensively.
  
 At first I fell in love with the 3F. More coherent and musical compared to the X (more soul, if you will), which is very important if you like the euphoric nature/aspect of EDM (which is lost in the X in my opinion). Then the Abyss arrived...
  
 Holy moly :¬)

 Next level. Seriously. There is *no contest*.

 I bought the Abyss and returned the Audeze with any hesitation whatsoever, and I was originally planning on keeping the 3F.

 Then I paired the Abyss with the Moon Neo HP amp and it got even better. 
  
 What amp are you looking at?

 Top matches are the Moon Neo, Liquid Gold, Wells Headamp (SS) and the Woo 234 and VIVA Egoista (tube) it seems.


----------



## galacticsoap

yoga said:


> I listen to a lot of electronic music, both ambient and with beats (Shpongle, Trentemoeller & Abakus being examples) and auditioned the 3F, X and then the Abyss, quite extensively.
> 
> At first I fell in love with the 3F. More coherent and musical compared to the X (more soul, if you will), which is very important if you like the euphoric nature/aspect of EDM (which is lost in the X in my opinion). Then the Abyss arrived...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Mate,
  
 Thank you for taking the time to reply.
  
 I've been through so many cans that I've figured it's time for me to pull the trigger and buy THE can for my genre instead of continuing on the upgrade treadmill one last time only to eventually land on the Abyss after buying, and then eventually reselling the 3F. You've saved me a lot of time and money through that post. 
  
 I'll be buying the Abyss for my study. In the study at the moment is an iFi Retro Stereo 50. It apparently puts out 7,000mW. I know it's not quite the DAC + Amp combo that some of you are running with the Abyss but I needed a system that was both a speaker & headphone solution as I'm also running ProAc Tablettes in a near field deployment.
  
 I may well sell the Retro Stereo 50 and invest in the appropriate source + DAC + AMP for my study. I have the opportunity to buy a Head Amp GSX-MK2 for a good price, I could also redeploy my Violectric V281 from my main rig to the study, but at this stage I'd be using the Abyss primarily with the Stereo 50. Do you think it puts out enough power for them?
  
 Lastly, you've nailed exactly the affect I want to get with my final Headfi solution: the dynamics and slam of a flag-ship ortho coupled with the ethereal nuanced emotion that's so present in the best EDM (I hate that acronym it conjures up images of Avici & Guetta not the artists and producers I love but yeah, I digress!)
  
 Cheers,
 GS
  
 Cheers,
 GS


----------



## Yoga

galacticsoap said:


> Hi Mate,
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to reply.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The EDM label does the same for me, hence usually opting for electronic/ambient instead :¬)
  
 I have no experience with the Stereo 50, but there is no harm in trying. Your ears will be the ultimate test!
  
 The Abyss will showcase the amp/dac combo; if its musical, they will portray that, similarly if its clinical. I had the Schiit Ragnarok and Chord Hugo for a while and detested the combo. Dry and lifeless.
  
 V281 - not heard/read anyone comment on this as a good synergy. Again, worth trying, although you may be limited in terms of power.

 The Ragnarok, if paired with a musical dac, could be a potential combo for you. It's a powerful speaker amp too.

 I use the Burson Timekeeper to power my KEF LS50s.


----------



## Fririce0003

galacticsoap said:


> Hi Mate,
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to reply.
> 
> ...




 I'd put my money towards the rag for a cheaper solution, good pairing with the abyss and also operates as a speaker amp. A little bright and has a more typical solid state sound. Pairing with a warm musical DAC would be best, that and some fuller cables such as the spore4. I wish I could give more advice re the DAC but most I've heard have been on the brighter side aside from the LH DaVinci. Having said that the DaVinci would do wonders  
 I'd stay away from the GS-X for the abyss though, great amp but a poor pairing with the abyss. I own one and it only sees use as a pre amp for my speakers when I'm not using my 234's. 
 I wouldn't rule out a tube amp if your speakers will be fine driven by 8w, Cypher Labs Prautes, WA5 and WA234 all pair wonderfully with the abyss and have plenty of visceral bass. And of course you get all the nuanced effects and lovely euphonic decay to the music that's unique to tubes. I listen to a fair bit of trance and electronic and have to say my favourite amps for the abyss have all been tubed. Haven't heard the moon 430HA though.


----------



## galacticsoap

yoga said:


> The EDM label does the same for me, hence usually opting for electronic/ambient instead :¬)
> 
> I have no experience with the Stereo 50, but there is no harm in trying. Your ears will be the ultimate test!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Awesome - thanks Yoga.  
  
 Apparently the iFi iDSD drives the Abyss and that has half the power rating of the Stereo 50 so here's hoping I'm in a good position with the unit as it's slowly growing on me. 
  
 I'll most likely take it with me on Friday when I go to audition the LCD-3F and AB-1266. Can't wait!


----------



## yates7592

At 7W, I would say the Stereo 50 puts out enough power for Abyss, but as others have said, whether its a good musical match is another matter entirely. Probably worth trying out for some time if you've already got one before considering which upgrade path you want to take.


----------



## galacticsoap

yates7592 said:


> At 7W, I would say the Stereo 50 puts out enough power for Abyss, but as others have said, whether its a good musical match is another matter entirely. Probably worth trying out for some time if you've already got one before considering which upgrade path you want to take.


 
  
 Awesome. That's good to know!


----------



## mulder01

I use my pair with a v281, Nomax swears by his too. I have heard a number of people say good things about it and I don't think I have heard anything bad about it for it's price. 

I haven't heard anyone mention the Stereo 50 in this thread before. 7w is a lot of juice, but it will just come down to weather or not you like the sound I suppose. If you don't like the pairing, you always have the v281 to fall back on while you look at other options for your study.


----------



## mikel

I also have a Violectric V281 with my Abyss. Very good, transparent performer. More than enough juice to drive the Abyss.
 Personally I believe a good DAC has much bigger impact on sound than all good Amps out there. If you reach a certain level of quality Amp (V281, Cavalli LAU.....) differences in sound are very subtle.


----------



## Yoga

mikel said:


> I also have a Violectric V281 with my Abyss. Very good, transparent performer. More than enough juice to drive the Abyss.
> Personally I believe a good DAC has much bigger impact on sound than all good Amps out there. If you reach a certain level of quality Amp (V281, Cavalli LAU.....) differences in sound are very subtle.


 

 That's not what people who have heard the VIVA Egoista are saying. Far from it, in fact... :¬)


----------



## plakat

The V281 works very well with the Abyss and is reasonably priced (well... for the High-End definition of "reasonable" at least 
  
 I think the power requirements are overrated, except one listens at a very high volume. I have no problem reaching much more volume than I'd like to listen at with the DAC2 or even the iDSD Micro. V281 is on 0 gain and volume is at 11 o'clock max. Electrically the Abyss is rather easy to pair, it just needs an amp that can deliver a bit of current into its 50Ohm load. If one likes the sonic aspects of a pairing is another thing of course, but don't get caught up in 'I need the most powerful amp available'


----------



## mikel

I have not heard the Egoista. But I would just be curious if you do a double blind test comparing the Egoista to the other top amps out there, and what the result will be using a great DAC.
 A 12000 USD amp just has to be great, right?  
  
 And the Egoista is not even balanced if I recall correctly.


----------



## Yoga

plakat said:


> The V281 works very well with the Abyss and is reasonably priced (well... for the High-End definition of "reasonable" at least
> 
> I think the power requirements are overrated, except one listens at a very high volume. I have no problem reaching much more volume than I'd like to listen at with the DAC2 or even the iDSD Micro. V281 is on 0 gain and volume is at 11 o'clock max. Electrically the Abyss is rather easy to pair, it just needs an amp that can deliver a bit of current into its 50Ohm load. If one likes the sonic aspects of a pairing is another thing of course, but don't get caught up in 'I need the most powerful amp available'


 

 The Conductor is quite powerful. Going to the Neo 430 was a *big* jump at higher (entirely usable) volumes!


----------



## Yoga

mikel said:


> I have not heard the Egoista. But I would just be curious if you do a double blind test comparing the Egoista to the other top amps out there, and what the result will be using a great DAC.
> A 12000 USD amp just has to be great, right?
> 
> And the Egoista is not even balanced if I recall correctly.


 

 The reviwers didn't own them, they had no reason to fabricate impressions. As with the people who auditioned it at the Munch show last month. All feedback is incredibly positive. Ridiculously so, in fact. 
  
 It's _only_ $10K btw ;¬)


----------



## plakat

yoga said:


> The Conductor is quite powerful. Going to the Neo 430 was a *big* jump at higher (entirely usable) volumes!


 
  
 Thats not what I meant... My point was that for my needs I get more than enough volume even from the ifi. I just don't care about what might come beyond 11 on the V281... nice to have that power available, but definitely not necessary. I have to say that I do love some headroom though.
  


yoga said:


> The reviwers didn't own them, they had no reason to fabricate impressions. As with the people who auditioned it at the Munch show last month. All feedback is incredibly positive. Ridiculously so, in fact.
> 
> It's _only_ $10K btw ;¬)


 
  
 The game is called expectation bias... no "need to fabricate" and almost certainly no bad intentions necessary. Plus one is not aware of the fact, even if it is known.
 I'm with @mikel on that, I, too, don't think there's a relevant difference. If one is happy to spend that amount -- so be it. A whole industry lives off that and I'm fine with that as I don't *have* to participate


----------



## Yoga

plakat said:


> The game is called expectation bias... no "need to fabricate" and almost certainly no bad intentions necessary. Plus one is not aware of the fact, even if it is known.
> I'm with @mikel on that, I, too, don't think there's a relevant difference. If one is happy to spend that amount -- so be it. A whole industry lives off that and I'm fine with that as I don't *have* to participate


 
  
 If you've not heard the unit personally, your words are simply subjecture and assumption (hence my signature), _just like mine_.
  
 Although I intend to audition it for an informed perspective :¬)
  
 Enjoy your gear!


----------



## plakat

yoga said:


> If you've not heard the unit personally, your words are simply subjecture and assumption (hence my signature), _just like mine_.
> 
> Although I intend to audition it for an informed perspective :¬)
> 
> Enjoy your gear!


 

 I do enjoy what I have -- carefully selected.
 And I did hear enough high end stuff to not be interested any more... in the end its the music that gives me enjoyment, not the gear. That is just means to an end. I know many people, especially folks frequenting audio forums, have differing interests.
  
 Regarding the source of knowledge: I don't think Albert experienced gravitational waves...
 Paraphrasing someone else: dog sh.t may taste like honey. Still I'm never gonna find out.


----------



## galacticsoap

Thanks Guys. I guess like all things in life it's all relative isn't it? I have to admit I can't wait to give test out the Abyss this week. I'll be heading down to the distributor with Stereo 50 in hand so should be able to give a first hand account on how the experience was in a few days.
  
 I'm listening to my LCD-X + ALO Ref 16 cable at the moment out of Stereo 50 and I'm grinning. I love the combination of speed, coherency, and tonality the LCD-X strikes. To think that the Abyss is a number of notches above this is incredibly exciting. 
  
 Question - do you guys experience hummm on your amps with the Abyss?


----------



## Yoga

galacticsoap said:


> Thanks Guys. I guess like all things in life it's all relative isn't it? I have to admit I can't wait to give test out the Abyss this week. I'll be heading down to the distributor with Stereo 50 in hand so should be able to give a first hand account on how the experience was in a few days.
> 
> I'm listening to my LCD-X + ALO Ref 16 cable at the moment out of Stereo 50 and I'm grinning. I love the combination of speed, coherency, and tonality the LCD-X strikes. To think that the Abyss is a number of notches above this is incredibly exciting.
> 
> Question - do you guys experience hummm on your amps with the Abyss?


 

 Man, you're going to adore the Abyss. The jump from the LCD-X is substantial :¬)

 Prepare for audio goosebumps!

 Zero hum on the Neo. There is only a slight buzz when you crank it to 95% volume, head asplode levels.

 Even at loud listening levels, it's entirely, entirely black. A few were chatting about this in the Neo 430 thread recently as it happens.


----------



## Nomax

mulder01 said:


> I use my pair with a v281, Nomax swears by his too. I have heard a number of people say good things about it and I don't think I have heard anything bad about it for it's price.
> 
> I haven't heard anyone mention the Stereo 50 in this thread before. 7w is a lot of juice, but it will just come down to weather or not you like the sound I suppose. If you don't like the pairing, you always have the v281 to fall back on while you look at other options for your study.




V281 and MOON NEO are the only two AMPS in this Crazy Industrie(both are worth the every dollar!!) that drives this MASTERPIECE from Joe very very good

NOMAX

PS.all other amps are much overpriced,i am long time crazy headphone Freak for over 20 years and i know many engeniers and the production costs of amps and Hp


----------



## preproman

There's way more amps out there that drive the Abyss well.  They may be overpriced yes, but they are still out there..  I'm mainly talking about speaker amps.


----------



## up late

plakat said:


> The game is called expectation bias... no "need to fabricate" and almost certainly no bad intentions necessary. Plus one is not aware of the fact, even if it is known.
> I'm with @mikel
> on that, I, too, don't think there's a relevant difference. If one is happy to spend that amount -- so be it. A whole industry lives off that and I'm fine with that as I don't *have* to participate







plakat said:


> I do enjoy what I have -- carefully selected.
> And I did hear enough high end stuff to not be interested any more... in the end its the music that gives me enjoyment, not the gear. That is just means to an end. I know many people, especially folks frequenting audio forums, have differing interests.
> 
> Regarding the source of knowledge: I don't think Albert experienced gravitational waves...
> Paraphrasing someone else: dog sh.t may taste like honey. Still I'm never gonna find out.




well said - with the exception of the doggie doo reference


----------



## HiFiGuy528

nomax said:


> V281 and MOON NEO are the only two AMPS in this Crazy Industrie(both are worth the every dollar!!) that drives this MASTERPIECE from Joe very very good
> 
> NOMAX
> 
> PS.all other amps are much overpriced,i am long time crazy headphone Freak for over 20 years and i know many engeniers and the production costs of amps and Hp


 
  
 you forgot one.  ok, two....


----------



## galacticsoap

Ah - High Resolution version of Random Access Memories via Sony HAP-Z1ES into Woo Audio Monoblocks into Abyss into Headfi Heaven!


----------



## sathyam

yates7592 said:


> Interesting. What are the differences?


 
  
 I hear a lot of differences:

The noise floor is lower in MBP
Volume Levels - With the XPS, I have had to hear music at 60% volume on the LiAu, whereas with the Mac, I am down to using it at 40%.
This is the first time I experienced a true 3D soundstage - with instruments placed in the width and depth. The music really surrounded me.
Revealing - This was especially revealing when I played Indian film music, as they usually use a lot of small instruments and I could listen to those instruments for the first time
Bass - I can now hear the vibrations and the hand movement variations of the Indian percussion instruments (like the Tabla), which is something you hear during live performances
Treble - The XPS laptop for some reason had a harsh treble for some of the older music I have in my library. I do not hear that harshness - This maybe the noise level
  
 The best thing for me was listening to the Tabla (percussion instrument) sounds


----------



## fire2368

Hi there, I've just joined the club over the weekend and after a length listening session throughout the week, I really want a new amp. I found that I didn't like the synergy between the Abyss and the Prautes, but I enjoyed the transparency and seperation and my Zana Deux had better PRaT and Impact, but was lacking the transparency IMO. 
  
 Currently, I'm open to most things, have a budget of $5000 and now looking what you guys recommend.
  
 I've tried the Liquid Gold at A2A and I just didn't find it all that remarkable given the price tag. I'm more tempted going tube, so the Balancing Act is something I'm interested in. Any other synergies that you guys found favourable with tube amps? And as far as SS goes, I was looking at the GS-X Mk2, but then got swayed by the Master-9 since apparently it's better value for money (comparable but cheaper).


----------



## galacticsoap

fire2368 said:


> Hi there, I've just joined the club over the weekend and after a length listening session throughout the week, I really want a new amp. I found that I didn't like the synergy between the Abyss and the Prautes, but I enjoyed the transparency and seperation and my Zana Deux had better PRaT and Impact, but was lacking the transparency IMO.
> 
> Currently, I'm open to most things, have a budget of $5000 and now looking what you guys recommend.
> 
> I've tried the Liquid Gold at A2A and I just didn't find it all that remarkable given the price tag. I'm more tempted going tube, so the Balancing Act is something I'm interested in. Any other synergies that you guys found favourable with tube amps? And as far as SS goes, I was looking at the GS-X Mk2, but then got swayed by the Master-9 since apparently it's better value for money (comparable but cheaper).


 
  
 Nice one mate. I'm off to their Sydney store on Friday and will most likely pull the trigger. What kind of music do you listen to?


----------



## fire2368

galacticsoap said:


> Nice one mate. I'm off to their Sydney store on Friday and will most likely pull the trigger. What kind of music do you listen to?


 
  
 Almost anything that sings really, depends on my mood. It great having gear like this, it lets me enjoy any type of music more than I would usually. 
  
 Are you buying the full or the lite? I went lite, didnt feel their full offering was worth an extra k. 
  
 I've seen your post on many websites on different threads, which amp are you going to pair this up with?


----------



## galacticsoap

fire2368 said:


> Almost anything that sings really, depends on my mood. It great having gear like this, it lets me enjoy any type of music more than I would usually.
> 
> Are you buying the full or the lite? I went lite, didnt feel their full offering was worth an extra k.
> 
> I've seen your post on many websites on different threads, which amp are you going to pair this up with?


 
  
 LOL - yeah, I have been posting quite a bit on Stereonet of late. 
  
 RE: Amp - Initially I was going to pair the unit with my Retro Stereo 50 which is what I use in my study, however I'm most likely going to sell that or use it in my Bedroom. I'm on a similar journey to you in that after I buy the Abyss I'll have a budget of about $10K to spend on an AMP + DAC. I'm thinking about the Schiit Stack but A2A have sold their demo models so I won't have the chance to hear them...I'm leaning towards Solid State. I've got a V281 + MSB Analog DAC in my main system. The Moon Neo and/or Master 9 are most likely where I'll land if I don't go with the Ragnarok. Notice you're interested in the Master 9 as well. I take we'd have to buy direct from Kingwa?
  
 Not sure re: the Lite vs Full Spec. I'll need to check out both options in the flesh. Wouldn't mind saving a $1K though!


----------



## Fririce0003

fire2368 said:


> Hi there, I've just joined the club over the weekend and after a length listening session throughout the week, I really want a new amp. I found that I didn't like the synergy between the Abyss and the Prautes, but I enjoyed the transparency and seperation and my Zana Deux had better PRaT and Impact, but was lacking the transparency IMO.
> 
> Currently, I'm open to most things, have a budget of $5000 and now looking what you guys recommend.
> 
> I've tried the Liquid Gold at A2A and I just didn't find it all that remarkable given the price tag. I'm more tempted going tube, so the Balancing Act is something I'm interested in. Any other synergies that you guys found favourable with tube amps? And as far as SS goes, I was looking at the GS-X Mk2, but then got swayed by the Master-9 since apparently it's better value for money (comparable but cheaper).



GS-X is a great amp, but a poor pairing with the abyss. For $5k you could probably get a WA5 from A2A which is an excellent pairing. If you still want a SS amp th Rag and V281 are good choices as well. The WA5 sounds pretty good with stock tubes but can improve vastly with better ones later down the track. 
 If you still want to hear the GS-X A2A probably won't have a demo unit due to the massive lead times, but I've got one that you could have a listen to if you're in the melbourne area which I'm thinking of selling anyway...


----------



## Yoga

Anyone tried all silver custom cables with the Abyss?


----------



## yates7592

Do you mean the DHC Silver Spore? If so I have some on order and should be here in about 2 weeks. I think isquirrel has ordered some too but AFAIK nobody has got to listen to them with Abyss yet.


----------



## Yoga

yates7592 said:


> Do you mean the DHC Silver Spore? If so I have some on order and should be here in about 2 weeks. I think isquirrel has ordered some too but AFAIK nobody has got to listen to them with Abyss yet.


 

 Any really!
  
 Yes, I'm rather excited to hear both of your impressions. I'll refrain from buying the Spore4 fusion until that time.
  
 I'm speaking to Frank at Toxic Cables about some custom cables too - I have his Silver Widow for the LCD2.2's and found it to be excellent.


----------



## Yoga

Looks good...
  
 http://www.toxic-cables.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_61&product_id=57
  


> The Venom is the first ever headphone cable to use the 18AWG rectangular pure OCC silver wire. There are other manufacturers selling cables made with Retangular silver but these cables are all 22-24AWG.  I use 18AWG OCC silver, I am using 8 conductors for this cable rather then the standard 4 wires others are using.  The wire is manufactured sleeved. I then use an additional 2 layers of sleeving to protect the solid core wire to allow it to bend at 180 degrees without kinking.


----------



## yates7592

Yep Toxic Venom looks cool also. I wonder how it sounds with Abyss? Any reviews of this cable with other headphones around?


----------



## isquirrel

sathyam said:


> I just my Macbook Pro. Wow what a difference the source makes! I previously had a Dell XPS15 with an SSD. The difference is like night and day between the MBP and the XPS15 with the Abyss. It's like the AB-1266 is a whole new HP.
> 
> I am salivating at upgrading to an Aurender X100L next year. I read that it did beat the MBP handily. For now, I am going to enjoy my music with the MBP.
> 
> I am still using the DirectStream and LiAu in the pipeline.


 

 If you think that's good wait until you try a dedicated music server, as its the source its one of the biggest upgrades you can make IMHO


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> If you think that's good wait until you try a dedicated music server, as its the source its one of the biggest upgrades you can make IMHO


 

 I have a SMS-100 sitting on my desk unused as its got terrible Tidal integration and a non existent Spotify connection.
  
 Might have to source one that can do both effectively. Spotify will add lossless at some point.


----------



## isquirrel

Try out Roon, it sounds great and has the best Tidal implementation I have seen, every better in some ways than Tidal's own app. Worth a try.


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> Try out Roon, it sounds great and has the best Tidal implementation I have seen, every better in some ways than Tidal's own app. Worth a try.


 

 Goodness, that may be it. Thanks very much :¬)
  
 Edit, on a side note, I just hooked up the SMS-100 and it does indeed improve audio clarity. I was doubtful before, but I've had a chance to get used to the Moon being connected directly to my Mac for a while now.


----------



## Beolab

I was in Stockholm at a Hifi store and listened to Abyss combined with the Simaudio Moon 430 with DAC onboard. 
It sells for 4500 Euro and have a claimed power at 8 watt / chanel @50 Ohms and was very disapionted of the sound! 

It was to unengaged and sounded dull and laked of power , dynamics had no body in the voices! So you pulled up the volume-nobe to 70-80% and still it was no glory to the sound. 

And the salesman said that he have never experiensed a better sound  

My Chord Hugo repreduce a more dynamic sound with only 320mW i said. 

So its not only the power who sets the sound.


----------



## preproman




----------



## plakat

beolab said:


> I was in Stockholm at a Hifi store and listened to Abyss combined with the Simaudio Moon 430 with DAC onboard.
> It sells for 4500 Euro and have a claimed power at 8 watt / chanel @50 Ohms and was very disapionted of the sound!
> 
> It was to unengaged and sounded dull and laked of power , dynamics had no body in the voices! So you pulled up the volume-nobe to 70-80% and still it was no glory to the sound.
> ...


 

 Thats just bound to trigger some response here, given that several people seem to love the Moon, which I've never heard personally.
  
 But I, too, think that the power requirements for the Abyss are overstated, at least when considering the volume I usually listen to. And while I do like some headroom, the V281 has ridiculous amounts of that given my needs (at 0dB input gain I never came beyond 11 o'clock). I had no problems reaching enough level with the ifi on Turbo mode (at around 1 o'clock) or the Benchmark DAC2, neither of them stressed enough to compress dynamics. I think there's quite a wide range of amps potent enough to drive it and there are nice sounding pairings among those for sure. And of course more power (beyond the minimum requirements) does not necessarily mean better sound.


----------



## preproman

This sounds like the HE-6 argument 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 I've found the power is not the deciding factor, it's the overall sound quality of the amp it self.  
  
 I like the Nelson Pass stuff.  I started out with his First Watt line of amps.  With less power the F1J beat out the GS-X mk2 at that time using the HE-6.  That's when I pretty much gave up on headphone amps in general.  The GS-X MK2 cost 2 times as much as the F1J.  I've moved on tho the Pass Labs line of amps.  Headphone amps in general for "planar headphones" has no place for me.
  
 Now I'm using the Pass Labs INT-30A with the Abyss.  Out of all the times I've heard the Abyss on many other headphone amps, they don't come close to the sound quality of the Pass amps.  
  
 Now headphone amps for dynamic and electrostatic headphones are a different story..


----------



## Beolab

preproman said:


> This sounds like the HE-6 argument :blink:
> 
> I've found the power is not the deciding factor, it's the overall sound quality of the amp it self.
> 
> ...




How do you connect the abyss to your Pass lab amp ?


----------



## preproman

beolab said:


> How do you connect the abyss to your Pass lab amp ?


----------



## Beolab

plakat said:


> Thats just bound to trigger some response here, given that several people seem to love the Moon, which I've never heard personally.
> 
> But I, too, think that the power requirements for the Abyss are overstated, at least when considering the volume I usually listen to. And while I do like some headroom, the V281 has ridiculous amounts of that given my needs (at 0dB input gain I never came beyond 11 o'clock). I had no problems reaching enough level with the ifi on Turbo mode (at around 1 o'clock) or the Benchmark DAC2, neither of them stressed enough to compress dynamics. I think there's quite a wide range of amps potent enough to drive it and there are nice sounding pairings among those for sure. And of course more power (beyond the minimum requirements) does not necessarily mean better sound.




Haha yes its my opinion, so throw in the popcorn in the microwave and fill up your beer-cans  

The sound where like the sennheiser HDV800 but you could play a thad higher. 

My conclution is that the Abyss and Moon are like Cat and Dog in this match. 

And to you guys who have bought the Moon 430, have you listened to Woo Audio or Cavalli Liquid Gold before you purchased it, because its a mile in btw in dynamic power and live-fullness its my opinion.


----------



## negura

beolab said:


> I was in Stockholm at a Hifi store and listened to Abyss combined with the Simaudio Moon 430 with DAC onboard.
> It sells for 4500 Euro and have a claimed power at 8 watt / chanel @50 Ohms and was very disapionted of the sound!
> 
> It was to unengaged and sounded dull and laked of power , dynamics had no body in the voices! So you pulled up the volume-nobe to 70-80% and still it was no glory to the sound.
> ...


 
  
 Not surprising to me. This is similar to what I thought of the Moon 430HA when I had it a home, with several headphones, not including the Abyss though (I did hear the Moon 430/Abyss combo too but that was at a show, and the built-in DAC was not helping it). An above average amp that does a lot well enough, didn't excel at much and ultimately it was a bit dull and boring. It has power, but fluffs about a bit, lacking energy and dynamics. The transparency and macro/micro-detail weren't that great either. My solid state speaker amp had all those in spades with planars.


----------



## fire2368

preproman said:


> ​


 
 Is this safe? Does that mean we can start powering these headphones from power amps?


----------



## plakat

fire2368 said:


> Is this safe? Does that mean we can start powering these headphones from power amps?


 

 Should not be a problem as long as you don't get the connectors mixed up. The 50Ohm non-reactive load should be fine for a speaker amp, though its probably otimized for a lower nominal impedance.


----------



## Beolab

plakat said:


> Should not be a problem as long as you don't get the connectors mixed up. The 50Ohm non-reactive load should be fine for a speaker amp, though its probably otimized for a lower nominal impedance.




That was my thoughts also, that you have connected it through your speaker outlets haha. Wounder how many watts the PASS LABS puts out @ 46 Ohms load ? Could it be like 5-6 watts perhaps?


----------



## preproman

fire2368 said:


> Is this safe? Does that mean we can start powering these headphones from power amps?


 

 Start?  I alone​save been doing it for years..  There's a thread on it as well.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/649107/speaker-amps-for-headphones


----------



## fire2368

preproman said:


> Start?  I alone​save been doing it for years..  There's a thread on it as well.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/649107/speaker-amps-for-headphones


 
 I'm tempted to buy a cable and try it out on my exposure 3010s2 power amp, I like how they sound on my speakers. 
  
 This opens up what kind of amps we can buy for any headphones, I want to try some nice monoblocks.


----------



## preproman

fire2368 said:


> I'm tempted to buy a cable and try it out on my exposure 3010s2 power amp, I like how they sound on my speakers.
> 
> This opens up what kind of amps we can buy for any headphones, I want to try some nice monoblocks.


 

 Ha ha ha.. yes it does.  I went the integrated route so I won't have to include a preamp of any kind with the power amps.  If you have a power amp, you more than likely already have a pre amp.  
  
 However, I've found passive pre amps to work better with headphones but I'm sure active pre amps are just as good.  Just watch out for the output voltage of the active pre amps.


----------



## Yoga

beolab said:


> I was in Stockholm at a Hifi store and listened to Abyss combined with the Simaudio Moon 430 with DAC onboard.
> It sells for 4500 Euro and have a claimed power at 8 watt / chanel @50 Ohms and was very disapionted of the sound!
> 
> It was to unengaged and sounded dull and laked of power , dynamics had no body in the voices! So you pulled up the volume-nobe to 70-80% and still it was no glory to the sound.
> ...


 

 Having auditioned the 430 to the Hugo in a home environment, I can say with confidence my experience was the complete opposite. Even when the Hugo was paired with the Ragnarok; harsh, lifeless and shrill. 
  
 Negura - from our chats it seems apparent you handn't hit the necessary burn in time between yourself and the supplier. No burn in whatsoever for the DAC section if I recall correctly (I realise you were more interested in the HA section). Coming from a Yggy owner, you more than anyone must be able to appreciate the need for such.
  
 But, as always, horses for courses, each to their own, subjective perspective, YMMV etc :¬)
  
 I should have the VIVA Egoista 845 with me in a couple of months, I'll be able to make a rather tasty comparison between that and the Moon :¬)


----------



## yates7592

Wow, you bit the bullet on the Viva Egoista?


----------



## negura

yoga said:


> Having auditioned the 430 to the Hugo in a home environment, I can say with confidence my experience was the complete opposite. Even when the Hugo was paired with the Ragnarok; harsh, lifeless and shrill.
> 
> Negura - from our chats it seems apparent you handn't hit the necessary burn in time between yourself and the supplier. No burn in whatsoever for the DAC section if I recall correctly (I realise you were more interested in the HA section). Coming from a Yggy owner, you more than anyone must be able to appreciate the need for such.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It was a home demo product - burn-in should've been a done deal already. The condition looked used, which was as expected. Nevertheless the amp played music 24/7 for the time I had it, and it didn't change much at all past the first hours from cold. The DAC, indeed, I did not spend a lot of time with because it sounded very poorly. I could not listen to it for any extended time.
  
 That said after the disappointment that HEK was, I am back at assessing whether I should buy the Abyss.


----------



## Yoga

If we can find the time I'd still love to pop up with the 430 (perhaps VIVA) and Abyss to compare with your setup, as I know how finely tuned it is.


----------



## negura

yoga said:


> If we can find the time I'd still love to pop up with the 430 (perhaps VIVA) and Abyss to compare with your setup, as I know how finely tuned it is.


 
  
 The VIVA looks interesting. It's a pity they decided to chop off the speaker taps as we could've given that a spin with speakers too. But they have another similar product to sell, with speaker taps instead of headphones output. It so happens I very recently ordered an 845 SET speaker amp - that should be interesting to add two resistors to and check the HE-6s/Abyss.


----------



## yates7592

I think you should try again. I had a session at a hifi shop and it was beyond bad. Amp was crap, couldn't get the right fit on Abyss. The sound was incredibly bad. Tried again at home with Headtrip and proper fit and total transformation. Just try a V281 which quite a few people here say is a great match with Abyss.


----------



## Trance_Gott

My experience is also the opposite. The internal DAC of my Moon beats easily the V800 and is on par with NFB7. Very poor? No!
The amp section beats all previous amps I had like BHA1 and Taurus MK2.
Especially with the Abyss I never heared a combo with such great dynamic, attack and smooth and rich mids.
Although Joe from JPS uses the Abyss with the Moon on shows. Do you mean he wanted to drive his headphones with crap?
The 430HA is an killer amp not only with the Abyss. The LCD3 and HE6 I never heared better. Next week my HE1000 will arrive and I will drive it with the 430HA.


----------



## Yoga

yates7592 said:


> Wow, you bit the bullet on the Viva Egoista?


 

 Decision point at 90%. Might be ordering tomorrow :¬)
  
 Which 845 SET amp is it negura?


----------



## negura

trance_gott said:


> The amp section beats all previous amps I had like BHA1 and Taurus MK2.


 
  
 That it probably does. I have never recommended the Taurus to anyone I care about. The BHA1 I have heard, but I am not familiar enough with to comment. I'd pick a good solid state speaker amp over the others any day though.
  


yoga said:


> Decision point at 90%. Might be ordering tomorrow :¬)
> 
> Which 845 SET amp is it negura?


 
  
 Nothing too fancy, just something I wanted to hear for a while: http://www.audioemotion.co.uk/melody-platinum-845-integrated-amplifier-3266-p.asp
 It's not a headamp though.


----------



## Yoga

trance_gott said:


> My experience is also the opposite. The internal DAC of my Moon beats easily the V800 and is on par with NFB7. Very poor? No!
> The amp section beats all previous amps I had like BHA1 and Taurus MK2.
> Especially with the Abyss I never heared a combo with such great dynamic, attack and smooth and rich mids.
> Although Joe from JPS uses the Abyss with the Moon on shows. Do you mean he wanted to drive his headphones with crap?
> The 430HA is an killer amp not only with the Abyss. The LCD3 and HE6 I never heared better. Next week my HE1000 will arrive and I will drive it with the 430HA.


 
  
 That's the sound I appreciate too; great PRaT combined with smooth, delicious mids. Soundstage/separation and bass are sublime. Heard the LCD3F recently again and it pales in comparison. Killer combo! Was tempted to mention that Joe used the 430 (along with the 234) to showcase the Abyss :¬)
  


yates7592 said:


> I think you should try again. I had a session at a hifi shop and it was beyond bad. Amp was crap, couldn't get the right fit on Abyss. The sound was incredibly bad. Tried again at home with Headtrip and proper fit and total transformation. Just try a V281 which quite a few people here say is a great match with Abyss.


 
  
 Wells Audio Headtrip - great amp! That was my other top SS choice, although far more expensive than the 430. What DAC did you use?


----------



## yates7592

My existing DAC is a Yulong D100 which has served me well but I know is the weak link in my chain. I have an MSB Analog DAC with power base upgrade on its way should be here in 7-10 days. Combined with the Spore cables should be a transformation.


----------



## Yoga

yates7592 said:


> My existing DAC is a Yulong D100 which has served me well but I know is the weak link in my chain. I have an MSB Analog DAC with power base upgrade on its way should be here in 7-10 days. Combined with the Spore cables should be a transformation.


 
  
 That is a considerable upgrade. 7-10 days - you must be rather excited :¬)
  
 Where will you posting your impressions?


----------



## Beolab

yoga said:


> That is a considerable upgrade. 7-10 days - you must be rather excited :¬)
> 
> Where will you posting your impressions?




Have a MSB Analog at my shop, and its very nice neutral and sounds like DCS Debussy or Emmlabs DAC2X almost to clean and have god transparency and great depth and scale, but laks a bit in the base territory. 

I have made a shootout with Hugo, QBD76 HDSD and MSB Analog and the MSB is a thad more bright and have a little better flow, but its very subtle. The Chords have more bottom.


----------



## Beolab

trance_gott said:


> My experience is also the opposite. The internal DAC of my Moon beats easily the V800 and is on par with NFB7. Very poor? No!
> The amp section beats all previous amps I had like BHA1 and Taurus MK2.
> Especially with the Abyss I never heared a combo with such great dynamic, attack and smooth and rich mids.
> Although Joe from JPS uses the Abyss with the Moon on shows. Do you mean he wanted to drive his headphones with crap?
> The 430HA is an killer amp not only with the Abyss. The LCD3 and HE6 I never heared better. Next week my HE1000 will arrive and I will drive it with the 430HA.




I find it very strange, because i connected my Abyss to my friends LEBEN Tube amp to night and it was a totally different sound with perfect transient , and more forward midrange and great dynamics and warmth ! The Moon sound where more like a traped mouse ho screamed for help. 

And i have average preference to how sound should be presented if i read reviews where i know the sound characteristics of serten products and find out that the writer have the same analys as my self very often.


----------



## Yoga

beolab said:


> I find it very strange, because i connected my Abyss to my friends LEBEN Tube amp to night and it was a totally different sound with perfect transient , and more forward midrange and great dynamics and warmth ! The Moon sound where more like a traped mouse ho screamed for help.
> 
> And i have average preference to how sound should be presented if i read reviews where i know the sound characteristics of serten products and find out that the writer have the same analys as my self very often.


 

 There are some versed reviewers who have said the same about the 430 (it being excellent).
  
 Each to their own, we all favour different things :¬)


----------



## Beolab

yoga said:


> There are some versed reviewers who have said the same about the 430 (it being excellent).
> 
> Each to their own, we all favour different things :¬)




Absolutely, but i dont figure why you then buy the amgong the most dynamic headphones and then combine it with amp that sounds like a small mouse? 

 I found it more rationale to sell and buy a more budjet system, and you can get the same dull sound. 

Its like buy a Aventador and change the V12 engine to Lincoln Towncar V6 3.8L engine, because its smoother? 


I understand its hard to say that my amp are not so good, but have you listened to Woo Audio or Cavalli and compared it to the Moon? 

Its like night and day


----------



## Kiats

yoga said:


> Looks good...
> 
> http://www.toxic-cables.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_61&product_id=57




Heheh! I run the Abyss with both the silver venom with silver connectors as well as the copper venom. Both are outstanding.


----------



## Yoga

kiats said:


> Heheh! I run the Abyss with both the silver venom with silver connectors as well as the copper venom. Both are outstanding.


 

 Nice! :¬)
  
 Any sonic differences?


----------



## Kiats

yoga said:


> Nice! :¬)
> 
> Any sonic differences?




Hmm... The silver venom has much greater note weight and very detailed. The copper venom gives the mids more intimacy. I enjoy both and Frank has made an adapter which will allow me to use them with the HE1000 in due course.


----------



## Yoga

kiats said:


> Hmm... The silver venom has much greater note weight and very detailed. The copper venom gives the mids more intimacy. I enjoy both and Frank has made an adapter which will allow me to use them with the HE1000 in due course.


 

 Thanks!
  
 So the copper is more musical? How does treble change (from stock) with the copper?


----------



## fire2368

After @preproman 's link to the speaker amp for headphones thread, I'm really confused. It sounds those guys are enjoying their headphones a lot more through speaker amps. At the moment I've got a Schiit Ragnarok available to purchase or I can go another route and purchase a NAD M3 or another Integrated amp.
  
 Was looking at doing a power amp for the Abyss, but finding the matching pre could be complicated. Could someone help me out with this, what's the best way to go about this.


----------



## preproman

fire2368 said:


> After @preproman 's link to the speaker amp for headphones thread, I'm really confused. It sounds those guys are enjoying their headphones a lot more through speaker amps. At the moment I've got a Schiit Ragnarok available to purchase or I can go another route and purchase a NAD M3 or another Integrated amp.
> 
> Was looking at doing a power amp for the Abyss, but finding the matching pre could be complicated. Could someone help me out with this, what's the best way to go about this.


 

 Does your DAC have volume control?


----------



## fire2368

preproman said:


> Does your DAC have volume control?


 
 The desktop amp I want to use does not. Which is why I thought I would have to go integrated or have a pre with the power amp. Have you heard the Ragnarok by any chance?


----------



## preproman

fire2368 said:


> The desktop amp I want to use does not. Which is why I thought I would have to go integrated or have a pre with the power amp. Have you heard the Ragnarok by any chance?


 

 What DAC are you going to use, does it have a volume control on the DAC?


----------



## fire2368

preproman said:


> What DAC are you going to use, does it have a volume control on the DAC?


 
 Sorry, I meant the desktop DAC I'm going to use does not have a volume control. I'm using the QBD76 HDSD.


----------



## Kiats

yoga said:


> Thanks!
> 
> So the copper is more musical? How does treble change (from stock) with the copper?




If I have to say one thing, I would say that it's smoother.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

It's not like a speaker amp will sound better than a headphone amp, they will have differing sonic traits just as headphone amps do. The quality of the speaker amp is just as important as the quality of the headphone amp, and since speaker amps require much larger power supplies they will typically be more expensive for an equivalent level of refinement. 

preproman is using a low power Pass Labs amplifier, one of the clearest amplifiers money can buy, and not exactly inexpensive, so no doubt it will perform admirably with the AB-1266. You have very poor odds of really enjoying any random amp with these headphones.

Also need to be careful as a speaker amp may not play nice without a proper load and can cause damage to the amp and headphone. Best bet if you're going to use a speaker amp is to check with the manufacturer as to whether it will be stable with a higher impedance headphone load above 16 ohms.


----------



## fire2368

I didn't realize how much the INT-30a is, $12,000 here in Australia. 
  
 I might go with Ragnarok then, play it safe.


----------



## preproman

You don't have to buy new.  Check this site out.  I have felt with Mark many times.  IMO these speaker amps offer much more value to performance compared to headphone amps.  The key is low power, low gain.
  
 http://www.renohifi.com/FirstUsed/FirstUsedInStock.htm
  
 If I match up price for price.  The First Watt amps will come out on top every time IMO..


----------



## fire2368

preproman said:


> You don't have to buy new.  Check this site out.  I have felt with Mark many times.  IMO these speaker amps offer much more value to performance compared to headphone amps.  The key is low power, low gain.
> 
> http://www.renohifi.com/FirstUsed/FirstUsedInStock.htm
> 
> If I match up price for price.  The First Watt amps will come out on top every time IMO..


 
  
 Being new to all this, which one would you recommend and would I need a pre since my dac has no volume control? Cheers


----------



## preproman

Yes you would need a pre.  I would go with a passive pre.  Something like this:  http://www.goldpt.com/sa1x.html  There are others out there as well.
  
 Depends on what kind of sound sig you like.  Take a look at this at the bottom of the page:  http://www.firstwatt.com/f4.html  Also the J2, M2 and SIT-2 are said to be pretty good as well.  My favorite was the F1J.


----------



## wink

Those are mains 120V input, you would need a transformer to drop your supply from 240v to 120v.


----------



## preproman

wink said:


> Those are mains 120V input, you would need a transformer to drop your supply from 240v to 120v.


 
  
 What are you reffereing to?


----------



## wink

fire2368 lives in Melbourne Australia.
  
 Mains power in Australia is 240V 50Hz
  
 Mains power in USA is 120V 60Hz.
  
 Therefore the best thing is to get a 2:1 stepdown transformer of sufficient power rating.


----------



## preproman

wink said:


> fire2368 lives in Melbourne Australia.
> 
> Mains power in Australia is 240V 50Hz
> 
> ...


 
  
 Reno offers both 120V and 240V of the same amps.. No need for step downs.


----------



## wink

I looked at your link and only saw 120V amps in the list.
  
 Thanks for the clarification.
  
  
 Just had another look and saw this as the second in the list.
  
*First Watt J2 120V or 240V, Demo *


----------



## yates7592

kiats said:


> Hmm... The silver venom has much greater note weight and very detailed. The copper venom gives the mids more intimacy. I enjoy both and Frank has made an adapter which will allow me to use them with the HE1000 in due course.




Sorry, could you please explain what you mean by "greater note weight"?


----------



## galacticsoap

Hi Guys,
  
 Picked up my pair of AB1266's last week. Since then I've relocated my MSB Analog DAC + v281 to my study yesterday. I'll go into detail shortly re: my impressions, but very quickly this is an amazing experience. I'm absolutely in love with what I'm hearing. I've got a Aurender N100 + 2TB HDD on it's way which should arrive this week along with iFi's iUSB. I'm thinking the final piece of the puzzle may be some Totaldac USB + Ethernet cables and I'm done. For a while.
  
 Quick question re: the cable. My amp if fairly close to me. I don't quite need the cable length that's been offered. How do you wrap up your cables - with cable ties?
  
 Cheers,
 GS


----------



## Yoga

galacticsoap said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Picked up my pair of AB1266's last week. Since then I've relocated my MSB Analog DAC + v281 to my study yesterday. I'll go into detail shortly re: my impressions, but very quickly this is an amazing experience. I'm absolutely in love with what I'm hearing. I've got a Aurender N100 + 2TB HDD on it's way which should arrive this week along with iFi's iUSB. I'm thinking the final piece of the puzzle may be some Totaldac USB + Ethernet cables and I'm done. For a while.
> 
> ...


 

 Great setup you have there - enjoy! 
  
 I'd love to hear the MSB Analogue with these cans :¬)
  
 I have a flexible (open/close) cable tie that came with my PC (I use a hackintosh) that's affixed under my desk near the front (to the side of me, in line with the HP amp). I can wrap as much cable up as I need there. Works perfectly!


----------



## Kiats

yates7592 said:


> Sorry, could you please explain what you mean by "greater note weight"?




No worries. Each musical note feels more distinct and substantive.


----------



## Beolab

Some upgrade: 

Pathos Aurium home for a test! 

No tube sound, its more bright with good separation, and nice dynamics, but it laks a little on power, if you are playing heavy bass tracks its broken up. 

7 Watts and 3,5 watt Class A / Chanel @ 16 Ohms. 

The amp are a masterpiece in engineering and craftmanship. The volume does not have a analog potentiometer for example, it using a digital unortodox resistor instead= No distortion or noise even at full volume! Pretty impressive.


----------



## Beolab

joe skubinski said:


> It's not like a speaker amp will sound better than a headphone amp, they will have differing sonic traits just as headphone amps do. The quality of the speaker amp is just as important as the quality of the headphone amp, and since speaker amps require much larger power supplies they will typically be more expensive for an equivalent level of refinement.
> 
> preproman is using a low power Pass Labs amplifier, one of the clearest amplifiers money can buy, and not exactly inexpensive, so no doubt it will perform admirably with the AB-1266. You have very poor odds of really enjoying any random amp with these headphones.
> 
> Also need to be careful as a speaker amp may not play nice without a proper load and can cause damage to the amp and headphone. Best bet if you're going to use a speaker amp is to check with the manufacturer as to whether it will be stable with a higher impedance headphone load above 16 ohms.




Hi Joe! 

Have a Pathos Aurium home for test. 

It producing 3,5 watt / channel @ 16Ohm, but on a exact volume level i can here the diaphragm start to broke up, but i may be the AMP who can not deliver the hefty Minimal Techno bass rhythm, because the Abyss have SPL @ 130db what i have heard, and this was no 130db


----------



## Joe Skubinski

With a rated 3.5 watts into 16 ohms, it's good for about one watt into the 46 ohms. You're running out of power at enthusiastic playing levels.


----------



## Beolab

joe skubinski said:


> With a rated 3.5 watts into 16 ohms, it's good for about one watt into the 46 ohms. You're running out of power at enthusiastic playing levels.




Most likley its the AMP how are to week, i have to return it. 

It was a nice amp with almost to good separation and detail, so the midrange did loose some focus.

1. So the Sim Audio Moon sounding dull and like a mouse, do not work with Abyss sound signature, maybe others. 

2. Pathos sound to week and if i steer it out on full volume / full Gain. 
 But it had a very relaxed sound even on higher levels, but cant handle the Abyss and dont match soundwise i think..
Laked on bass and litle dynamic. 

So if i like the format of the Pathos, but in black, and need 3 times the power with a signature that match the Abyss

I have tryed Violectric and i dident line the sound, and the Cavalli Gold are to Big;( 

So please feel free to namedropp amps:


----------



## mulder01

galacticsoap said:


> Quick question re: the cable. My amp if fairly close to me. I don't quite need the cable length that's been offered. How do you wrap up your cables - with cable ties?


 
  
 I just lay them neatly on the desk:
  
 On the stand:

  
 Then when I pick them up and put them on my head:

  
 I have one little bit of velcro half a metre from the headphone end of the cable which you can see in the first picture.  I bought a length of techflex to put over them but they became quite rigid when bunched together too tightly.  Tried a few different things but turns out the simplest thing worked the best.  Provided you have desk room to spare of course.  I know a lot of people don't...


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> I just lay them neatly on the desk:
> 
> Nice!
> 
> ...




Nice! 

What amp and DAC do you use?


----------



## metalboss

beolab said:


> Nice!
> 
> What amp and DAC do you use?


 
 He's using Violectric Audio HPA for sure http://violectric-usa.com/headphone-amplifiers


----------



## galacticsoap

Thanks Guys re: the cable solution.I need something that'll keep inquisitive little hands at bay. I'll drop Joe a PM and see if there's any potential issue to be had If I were wrap the cables up in a little loom with some small velcro straps.


----------



## Beolab

What about this mid sized 8 watt balanced amp for the Abyss? 

Is it any good value or just junk? 

Annyone baught from them? 

Audio-GD 
NFB-1 AMP

www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1AMP/NFB1AMPEN_Specs.htm


----------



## mulder01

beolab said:


> Nice!
> 
> What amp and DAC do you use?


 
  
 metalboss is right the amp is a Violectric v281.  The dac is just a portable dac at the moment waiting to be upgraded. (has been waiting about a year now though )


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> metalboss is right the amp is a Violectric v281.  The dac is just a portable dac at the moment waiting to be upgraded. (has been waiting about a year now though )


 

 What's on your hit list? :¬)


----------



## yates7592

kiats said:


> No worries. Each musical note feels more distinct and substantive.


 

 Thanks.
 And how's the bass on the pure Silver Venom compared to stock Abyss cable?
 Is this Silver Venom cable terminated directly for Abyss or do you have to use an adaptor ? (Toxic link says its only available with LCD2/3 termination).


----------



## Kiats

yates7592 said:


> Thanks.
> And how's the bass on the pure Silver Venom compared to stock Abyss cable?
> Is this Silver Venom cable terminated directly for Abyss or do you have to use an adaptor ? (Toxic link says its only available with LCD2/3 termination).




To my ears, the bass is tighter and deeper.

Mine are terminated for the Abyss. I recall the connectors are a bit more expensive.


----------



## David1961

I still think it's funny that some are getting custom cables for a headphone that's built by a place that specialises in supposedly high quality cables, and especially the cost of those headphones, but it's their money those that are buying these custom cables.


----------



## up late

share your perspective but this is the high end and to be expected


----------



## David1961

up late said:


> share your perspective but this is the high end and to be expected




Simply because some are saying the Abyss sounds so amazingly good, so if that's the case then what's a custom cable needed for ?
Anyway, those that want to buy a custom cable on top of spending $5500, then that's their choice.


----------



## isquirrel

david1961 said:


> Simply because some are saying the Abyss sounds so amazingly good, so if that's the case then what's a custom cable needed for ?
> Anyway, those that want to buy a custom cable on top of spending $5500, then that's their choice.


 

 Well that's a relief


----------



## galacticsoap

beolab said:


> What about this mid sized 8 watt balanced amp for the Abyss?
> 
> Is it any good value or just junk?
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Beolab
  
 Audio-gd are are widely recognised as producing a great product at a fantastic price point. Their Master 9 (which the NFB-1 AMP is apparently based on) is often mentioned in some fantastic company i.e. LAu etc...
  
 They are a very neutral product. I had a chance to hear my first one earlier this week and was impressed although I preferred my V281, and suspect may prefer the LAu (haven't heard one yet).
  
 I see your constraints appear to be space related, would you be open to a bigger table or a smaller multi-tiered rack?
  
 Cheers,
 GS


----------



## Beolab

You have understand my case correctly 

I buy my HiFi gear with my ears and my eyes, and searching for the smallest fotprint with the highest amount of power/performance, and Audio-GD newest NFB-1 AMP stands highest on my shortlist for now, but i know maybe the Master 9 are slightly better. 

I have also ordered the LC , but considering to cancel it..


----------



## mulder01

david1961 said:


> Simply because some are saying the Abyss sounds so amazingly good, so if that's the case then what's a custom cable needed for ?
> Anyway, those that want to buy a custom cable on top of spending $5500, then that's their choice.


 
  
 I suppose it's no different to someone buying a $5500 tube amp, then upgrading the tubes, even though it is already an amazingly good amp.


----------



## up late

yep - similar mentality


----------



## David1961

mulder01 said:


> I suppose it's no different to someone buying a $5500 tube amp, then upgrading the tubes, even though it is already an amazingly good amp.




I've actually posted that the 009's sound uncomfortable while using stock Mullard tubes with the BHSE, but with the PH tubes and NOS Mullard's that problem is solved.
But all I've seen about the Abyss is how extremely good it's SQ is, and nothing about it needing to be improved upon.

It was also mentioned on this thread that the 009 needs a $5500 amp to sound very good, but is that not the case with the Abyss ?


----------



## Yoga

It doesn't matter how high something sets the bar (audio equipment, sport, cars - anything), that bar can aways be raised :¬)


----------



## mulder01

david1961 said:


> I've actually posted that the 009's sound uncomfortable while using stock Mullard tubes with the BHSE, but with the PH tubes and NOS Mullard's that problem is solved.
> But all I've seen about the Abyss is how extremely good it's SQ is, and nothing about it needing to be improved upon.
> 
> It was also mentioned on this thread that the 009 needs a $5500 amp to sound very good, but is that not the case with the Abyss ?


 
  
 I think if a super premium cable came out for the 009, many owners would be interested to see how it sounds, even though the 009 is already a top tier headphone, and many believe that it is already perfect.
  
 I listen to my abyss off a $2,500 amp (and sometimes off an $829 portable), some listen to their's off a $22,500 amp.  So what it needs to sound good is a matter of opinion I suppose.


----------



## David1961

I do know that JPS Labs make extremely good cables because I once owed a pair of their interconnects ( Superconductor 3 ), and if the Abyss looked something similar to the HE-90 then it would definitely be a headphone I'd consider getting, but as it is there's noway I'd have one.
When I first saw the 009's, I very much disliked the headband, but with there being yokes I had a good idea something could be done.


----------



## up late

yoga said:


> It doesn't matter how high something sets the bar (audio equipment, sport, cars - anything), that bar can aways be raised :¬)




is the bar really being raised in high-end audio or the audiophile's expectation bias?


----------



## fire2368

up late said:


> is the bar really being raised in high-end audio or the audiophile's expectation bias?


 
 The bar on the high end of the spectrum still get raised, its just the matter of increments.
  
 The same as buying a 2014 Nissan GT-R to do 0-60 in 2.9 sec and the 2015 Nissan GT-R to do 0-60 in 2.7 sec.
  
 The comparisons could go on & on...


----------



## David1961

IMO the expectation of SQ from a headphone is higher, when the cost is.


----------



## Yoga

up late said:


> is the bar really being raised in high-end audio or the audiophile's expectation bias?


 

 In my opinion "exception bias" is a too oft used term in which anyone can invalidate _anything_, without the all important thing we call _experience_. It's a cognitive/psychological term that people with generally very little (often zero) understanding of the bigger psychology picture will employ as if it's some kind of tangible trump card that 'wins' all subjective discussions.
  
 As an example, you'll get people who say the ODAC - or whatever it is - reproduces perfect sound, and hence everything else is some kind of mass self delusion based on the necessity to spend money. You'll also find those who spend £10K on equipment and then say anything above that is the same thing.
  
 Ad infinitum.
  
 Do what works for you, and let others do the same. Life is much happier/easier that way :¬)
  
 (Note - this is general statement, not pointed at you directly.)


----------



## up late

fire2368 said:


> The bar on the high end of the spectrum still get raised, its just the matter of increments.
> 
> The same as buying a 2014 Nissan GT-R to do 0-60 in 2.9 sec and the 2015 Nissan GT-R to do 0-60 in 2.7 sec.
> 
> The comparisons could go on & on...




problem with that analogy is that measuring a car's performance is relatively straightforward compared to measuring audio performance.


----------



## up late

yoga said:


> In my opinion "exception bias" is a too oft used term in which anyone can invalidate _anything_, without the all important thing we call _experience_. It's a cognitive/psychological term that people with generally very little (often zero) understanding of the bigger psychology picture will employ as if it's some kind of tangible trump card that 'wins' all subjective discussions.
> 
> As an example, you'll get people who say the ODAC - or whatever it is - reproduces perfect sound, and hence everything else is some kind of mass self delusion based on the necessity to spend money. You'll also find those who spend £10K on equipment and then say anything above that is the same thing.
> 
> ...




based on my own experience with audio and time spent at this forum, i feel comfortable using the term.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Intrinsic value is a much more appropriate measurement.

GTR, I owned it for 5 years, bought it to motivate and break my complacency and create Abyss---worked for me.

One of the most bad ass cars in terms of shear acceleration and handling, amazing engineering for a street car. You could sit just about anyone in the passenger seat, floor it and get a laugh out of them. Measurements such as zero to 60 did not quantify the experience; You could drive a different car with a similar spec and the acceleration would not 'feel' anywhere near the same.

Long-term, intrinsic value seems a bit difficult to maintain, as humans we keep trying. I believe it has something to do with the need for life experiences.


----------



## Kiats

Agree, Joe. I think in the context of this hobby, we are constantly looking to make our music sound that much better. According to our own idea of what it should sound like.


----------



## up late

joe skubinski said:


> Intrinsic value is a much more appropriate measurement.
> 
> GTR, I owned it for 5 years, bought it to motivate and break my complacency and create Abyss---worked for me.
> 
> ...




like i said, the car analogy is flawed imo but you can measure its performance. whether it puts a smile on your face or not when you drive it is a subjective response. dunno how you can measure the intrinsic value of something tho. 

this forum is full of folk who do feel the need to evaluate, compare and justify the performance (and price) of cans and ancillary gear - like cables for example, using subjective criteria that they believe is valid (despite it having no scientific basis). conflicts inevitably arise when they think that their subjective judgement is somehow more valid than the other folk here who are essentially doing the same thing. as for the doubters, well they have no business being here.


----------



## Yoga

up late said:


> based on my own experience with audio and time spent at this forum, i feel comfortable using the term.


 

 Yes indeed, that was included in my post; we set the limit/point of such a notion based on our own experiences (or not). It's a sliding door, to coin a phrase :¬)


----------



## up late

sure


----------



## mulder01

Has anyone else noticed the ad JPS Labs is running on head fi for the Abyss?
 I wonder if it would be considered distasteful to buy a mini Christ of the Abyss statue and use it as a headphone stand for the 1266...


----------



## David1961

joe skubinski said:


> GTR, I owned it for 5 years, bought it to motivate and break my complacency and create Abyss---worked for me.




But the GTR is a very nice looking car, IMO.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

If you read the car forums 2007 and on, not everyone liked this latest body style-- too functional or mechanical for some. Once it was out performance trumped style.

Talk about an evolution...

http://www.tripsandturns.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Nissan-Skyline-Hi-Res.jpeg


----------



## galacticsoap

LOL - You guys are my people. Talking about Godzilla's in an Abyss Thread. I feel like I'm home!


----------



## fire2368

I'm not a fan of the new ones honestly, they not too fun on the track, so controlled. But then again, I like European cars where its not about the lap time but about the experience inside the car.


----------



## Beolab

Back on topic! 

I have ordered the new Balanced Class A Audio-GD NFB-1 AMP and with 2x8 Watt @ 40Ohm on tap, it will rock my Abyss like the Cavalli Gold almost according to two diffrent sources who have compared the two amps. 

i have to wait 1 month and see 

I have also ordered the LC but most likely im thinking of canceling the order due to i have no other headphones to use with it. 

What are your thoughts , cancel or not?


----------



## fire2368

The abyss and the Ragnarok are a match made in heaven.
  
 Just received my Ragnarok today and from the hour and a half and listened to it, I haven't heard better, the sound stage is just amazing. When I thought my ZD had good sound stage this just trumped it. Wish it had lusher mids though, the Rag just wins everywhere else but mids IMO.
  
 I think I found my ideal amp (for now)...


----------



## mulder01

beolab said:


> Back on topic!
> 
> I have ordered the new Balanced Class A Audio-GD NFB-1 AMP and with 2x8 Watt @ 40Ohm on tap, it will rock my Abyss like the Cavalli Gold almost according to two diffrent sources who have compared the two amps.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What's an LC?


----------



## fire2368

mulder01 said:


> What's an LC?


 
  
 My guess, Liquid Crimson.


----------



## mulder01

Yeah I was thinking that, but if you were lusting after a Liquid Gold at $4k, why spend $3k on something that you don't _really_ want, when you could either just hold off and save the extra 1000 or buy a second hand one for roughly the same money?  My 2c anyway


----------



## Beolab

I think i keep the the Audio-GD that got more power on tap and play Class A up to 2x 5 watt 40Ohm and 2x8 watt Class A/B.

LC = Liquid Carbon


----------



## yates7592

If you can return either without losing money I would wait and listen to both. Power is one thing, and I doubt either will be lacking, but there will be important sonic differences as well that might make you prefer one over the other.


----------



## Beolab

Cant send the Liquid Carbon back after i have received it.


----------



## fire2368

preproman said:


> Yes you would need a pre.  I would go with a passive pre.  Something like this:  http://www.goldpt.com/sa1x.html  There are others out there as well.
> 
> Depends on what kind of sound sig you like.  Take a look at this at the bottom of the page:  http://www.firstwatt.com/f4.html  Also the J2, M2 and SIT-2 are said to be pretty good as well.  My favorite was the F1J.


 
@preproman I'm revisiting the thought of buying a pass labs/first watt amp. I can't find any Int-30a that are used (or cheap) which lead me to  the XA-30.8. Why did you recommend a passive pre, couldn't I use one of my current headphone amps as a pre?


----------



## preproman

fire2368 said:


> @preproman I'm revisiting the thought of buying a pass labs/first watt amp. I can't find any Int-30a that are used (or cheap) which lead me to  the XA-30.8. Why did you recommend a passive pre, couldn't I use one of my current headphone amps as a pre?


 

 Mark at Reno HiFi can always find you what you want:  http://www.renohifi.com/Instocklist.htm
  
 Yes, you can use any pre amp you already have. If you didn't have a pre amp and was looking to buy one, I would say go with a passive.  Headphones don't need the extra gain that active pre amps have.


----------



## dynavit

I' am in heaven, playing my Abyss on a Pass INT 150 directly from the speakes output. 
As nontechnic I was scarded burning the headphones, so I tried my ERGO AMT first, to reduce damage, if...
But now I play with 20-35 from 60 on display. No problem to adjust the right loudness, steps are pretty small.

What Ih ear is better than Malvalve or BHA1. Never heart such an uge soundstage on headphones. ( ok, could listen to the VIVA only with Audeze, but no Abyss). Endless power for endless dynamics. Also microdynamics show the class of this amp. And everything is very clear. The Abyss takes everything very easy, like an old master.
I'am very lucky I've tried this combination, allthoug I was really scared of connecting little headphones on such a big amp. 
Go for it
Tom


----------



## fire2368

dynavit said:


> I' am in heaven, playing my Abyss on a Pass INT 150 directly from the speakes output.
> As nontechnic I was scarded burning the headphones, so I tried my ERGO AMT first, to reduce damage, if...
> But now I play with 20-35 from 60 on display. No problem to adjust the right loudness, steps are pretty small.
> 
> ...


 

 So do you connect it straight into the amp with no resistance? I'm worried the INT-150 has too much power for headphones when compared to the INT-30a.
  
 I've narrowed my choices (based off availability to) Pass Labs XA30.8 or Pass Labs J2, I want a fully balanced system. But if you're running the INT-150 with no problems, I might consider it as well.


----------



## preproman

fire2368 said:


> So do you connect it straight into the amp with no resistance? I'm worried the INT-150 has too much power for headphones when compared to the INT-30a.
> 
> I've narrowed my choices (based off availability to) Pass Labs XA30.8 or Pass Labs J2, I want a fully balanced system. But if you're running the INT-150 with no problems, I might consider it as well.


 

 I had both in house at the same time: I went with the INT-30A because of it being pure class A, and from my comparisons the 150 get a little hot up top in the treble area.  Not much at all but when comparing the two that's what I found.  Also, the INT-30A will be plenty - still over kill but both the INT-150 and the INT-30A take the Abyss to another level compared to any of the headphone amps I've owned and or heard.


----------



## Beolab

preproman said:


> I had both in house at the same time: I went with the INT-30A because of it being pure class A, and from my comparisons the 150 get a little hot up top in the treble area.  Not much at all but when comparing the two that's what I found.  Also, the INT-30A will be plenty - still over kill but both the INT-150 and the INT-30A take the Abyss to another level compared to any of the headphone amps I've owned and or heard.




What is the estimated output power for the INT-30A @ 46 Ohm ?


----------



## negura

beolab said:


> What is the estimated output power for the INT-30A @ 46 Ohm ?




Only a few watts. But no more is needed. It is the quality that matters most. My tube amp drives the he6s perfectly out of 6 watts in 8ohms at any loudness level.


----------



## preproman

beolab said:


> What is the estimated output power for the INT-30A @ 46 Ohm ?


 

 I don't know for sure, I guess around 6 to 8 watts. Maybe less.  Someone who can do that math can tell you.


----------



## galacticsoap

@fire2368 - there's a Pass Labs Aleph that's popped up on Stereonet:
  
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/85246-eoi-pass-labs-aleph-3-amplifier/
  
 They do run a touch hot though!


----------



## Beolab

preproman said:


> I don't know for sure, I guess around 6 to 8 watts. Maybe less.  Someone who can do that math can tell you.




Does someone have the mathematic formula to recalculate a stereo amps rated power in 8 Ohm to 46Ohm ?


----------



## fire2368

@galacticsoap I was having a look at that but from what I read the Aleph 3 is quite old and the Aleph 30 was better and then the XA30.8 is much better again. I might go with one of the newer models.
  
 From what I calculated (take this with a grain of salt) the INT30-a delivers 5.2W at 46 Ohm, which is way more than enough. I had another converter spreadsheet and it came up that for most listening levels the Abyss doesn't even touch 1W, we were utilizing mW. I have speakers though, that need some power which is why I'm looking at more Pass Labs stuff than First Watt. Although the F1J is supposedly awesome, it delivers 10W at 8 Ohm and the J2 is kind of weird as it delivers more power at 8 Ohm than 4 Ohm. My speakers apparently need 25-125W.


----------



## givemevinyl

Darryl,
  
 Have you posted any comparisons between HE-6 and Abyss using Pass?


----------



## preproman

Well, not really any comparisons.  However, I sold the HE-6 and the LCD-3F but I'm keeping the Abyss.  I posted a few comparison between the Abyss and the HE1K in the HE1000 impressions thread.


----------



## fire2368

With the more powerful power amps, if I plug the Abyss straight in, will it blow the headphones?
  
 What's the purpose of the hifiman speaker box, will I need this or will the 4pin XLR to bananas suffice?
  
 I saw a good price on the Pass Labs XA60.5 monoblocks which is more power than INT-30a. Wondering if they'll be an issue to hook up to.
  
 As long as I control the volume adequately on my pre (which is going to be the ragnarok), there should be an issue right? I can always decrease the gain on the ragnarok.


----------



## preproman

You don't like the Abyss / Ragnarok pairing?  I don't know about using the Rag as a pre.  You wouldn't need all that gain from the Rag and the amps together.
  
 Maybe just get a passive preamp to put on the amps.  What do you use the Rag for?  Those mono blocks would be way to much overkill but it will work if you are very careful with the volume control.


----------



## fire2368

@preproman I'm loving the Rag/Abyss pairing, it's the best I've heard so far with the Abyss. But I'm always seeking for more.
  
 Reading up on the Pass Labs/First Watt apparently it just seems like it could be the next way up. Itching to find for that final setup where I can't go anywhere else.


----------



## zachchen1996

fire2368 said:


> @preproman I'm loving the Rag/Abyss pairing, it's the best I've heard so far with the Abyss. But I'm always seeking for more.
> 
> Reading up on the Pass Labs/First Watt apparently it just seems like it could be the next way up. Itching to find for that final setup where I can't go anywhere else.


 
  
 If you really want to bring your setup to a higher level I would recommend you upgrade your DAC as well.


----------



## fire2368

zachchen1996 said:


> If you really want to bring your setup to a higher level I would recommend you upgrade your DAC as well.


 

 Yeah, I'm waiting for the Dave maybe, see if there's any cheaper ones floating around next year. I just bought the QBD76 not long ago.


----------



## preproman

zachchen1996 said:


> If you really want to bring your setup to a higher level I would recommend you upgrade your DAC as well.


 

 What in your mind is an upgrade to the Chord QBD76?


----------



## wink

> Does someone have the mathematic formula to recalculate a stereo amps rated power in 8 Ohm to 46Ohm ?


 
 Watts/(46/8)
 i.e. 30 watts = 30/ (46/8)
 = 30/5.75
 = 5.22 watts
  


> With the more powerful power amps, if I plug the Abyss straight in, will it blow the headphones?
> 
> What's the purpose of the hifiman speaker box, will I need this or will the 4pin XLR to bananas suffice?


 
  
 If you have the volume controll all the way down, there should be no problem if you slowly adjust the volume to a comfortable listening level when the music is playing.
  
 The speaker box is to put a low impedance across the speaker terminals when using high impedance headphones.
 Some amps don't like high impedance loads. Usually the box has 8 ohm to 10 ohm resistors inside which go across the output terminals, so that the total impedance with the headphones connected will be around 6 to 10 ohms.


----------



## Beolab

This member have connected a Krell Power AMP 300e with 2x300 Watts @ 8 Ohms will then deliver 52watts @ 46 Ohms, or 48 watts @ 50 Ohms connected to the Abyss / HE-6.

 It have to be a little to much for the Abyss and HE-6 , but according to the member: Ohhgourami the match are like in heaven, so the HE-6, and most likley also the Abyss, can handle a very heavy load for shore !  

http://www.head-fi.org/t/493214/hifiman-he-6-planar-magnetic-headphone/16680_40#post_11737492


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> ...... However, I sold the HE-6 .....


----------



## matthewhypolite

I've planned to buy an Abyss 1266, and then the HE1000 hit. Decided to wait on more reviews and comparison, and from everything I've read seems like I'm sticking with the Abyss. Thanks all for the comparisons etc. Ill get my Abyss soon. LAu soon as well.


----------



## fire2368

I just paid for my Pass Labs INT-30a, happen to find a local seller and its 240V. Was originally going to get the XA30.8, but these came up cheaper. Will post impressions when I get them and the banana plug adapters!


----------



## mulder01

fire2368 said:


> @preproman I'm loving the Rag/Abyss pairing, it's the best I've heard so far with the Abyss. But I'm always seeking for more.
> 
> Reading up on the Pass Labs/First Watt apparently it just seems like it could be the next way up. Itching to find for that final setup where I can't go anywhere else.


 
  
 A lot of people who have tried the Woo WA234 seem to think that is the 'be all and end all' amp for the Abyss.  (Haven't given it a proper try myself though).  I guess you've probably already looked into that but...


----------



## fire2368

mulder01 said:


> A lot of people who have tried the Woo WA234 seem to think that is the 'be all and end all' amp for the Abyss.  (Haven't given it a proper try myself though).  I guess you've probably already looked into that but...


 

 I didn't rate it, but the WA234 they had on display had shocking tubes on it. It sounded to rolled and artificial, maybe if I heard them with proper tubes it might sway me. Saying that, the Pass Labs is another step in the right direction.


----------



## yates7592

Wells Headtrip puts out 25W into 32 ohms. This headphone amp really makes Abyss sing with incredible soundstage and dynamics. It has been used as a speaker amp as well (50W into 8 ohms and so on), not by me though.


----------



## preproman

fire2368 said:


> I just paid for my Pass Labs INT-30a, happen to find a local seller and its 240V. Was originally going to get the XA30.8, but these came up cheaper. Will post impressions when I get them and the banana plug adapters!


 

 Get spades.  I don't think bananas will work on that amp.
  
 Congrats..


----------



## Yoga

I'd love to hear the Abyss through the Pass INT-30A.
  
 Can't imagine it being better than the Egoista 845 though :¬)


----------



## negura

yoga said:


> I'd love to hear the Abyss through the Pass INT-30A.
> 
> Can't imagine it being better than the Egoista 845 though :¬)


 
  
 Besides being one of the latest on the block, what credits the Egoista as a (more) capable amp?


----------



## preproman

yoga said:


> I'd love to hear the Abyss through the Pass INT-30A.
> 
> Can't imagine it being better than the Egoista 845 though :¬)


 

 And why is that?  Are tubes automatically better than SS?  Well I don't think it's that simple.
  
 Just asking..


----------



## Yoga

Just going from the experience of the people who have auditioned the VIVAs thus far in various places. 
  
 It's not just about power, either. The PASS is built for speakers, the Egoista specifically for headphones, and if I read correctly, VIVA used the Abyss when developing it. Hence the synergy _should_ be better.


----------



## preproman

From what i've read about the VIVA is that it imparts its sound sig on everything.  Making it difficult to tell the difference between DACs.  Not what I'm looking for out of an amp.  Maybe it's the character of the 845.  However, in my experience headphone amps at that price point can't compete with speaker amps at the same price point.  
  
 SimAudio and Pass Labs offers some of the best amp to be had in that price range and so does other amp makers.


----------



## Yoga

Hence my statement, I'd love to hear the Abyss on the INT30 :¬)
  
 I still don't _think_ it will be better than the tube 845, as the Abyss will highlight the source, and the tubes will add some holographic coherence. 
  
 Some of the peeps who have auditioned the 845 have high end dac experience, and they still love the amp. So whatever it's doing, it's doing the right thing. I'm yet to read a _single_ negative comment about it.


----------



## preproman

Seems like your building up a very good case of expectation bias.  That's cool, I say go for it  Hope it lives up to the bias. Then again, it's hard not to when it already sounds good in your mind..  We're all guilty of it at some time or another.
  
 BTW the Abyss can't highlight the source if the amp doesn't allow it.


----------



## Yoga

preproman said:


> Seems like your building up a very good case of expectation bias.  That's cool, I say go for it  Hope it lives up to the bias. Then again, it's hard not to when it already sounds good in your mind..  We're all guilty of it at some time or another.
> 
> BTW the Abyss can't highlight the source if the amp doesn't allow it.


 
  
 I will quote myself regarding expectation bias...
  


> Originally Posted by *Yoga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> In my opinion "exception bias" is a too oft used term in which anyone can invalidate _anything_, without the all important thing we call _experience_. It's a cognitive/psychological term that people with generally very little (often zero) understanding of the bigger psychology picture will employ as if it's some kind of tangible trump card that 'wins' all subjective discussions.


 
  
 I have studied psychology (along with many other related subjects) for over a decade, and am well aware of the power of the mind. So much in fact, I hold public talks/workshops on the subject.

 While hype and bias is evident when *researching* - we get excited about certain things and hence that excitement drives decisons - when I *audition* gear, I blind A/B test them.
  
 If there is an audible difference that I like, I will gauge if that difference is worth the outlay. If I can't hear a difference without ridiculously critical, repetitive listening, I don't keep it.
  
 Which is why I'm sending the Yggy back. During research I was totally hyped about it, when it arrived at my door, it didn't meet my expectations.


----------



## preproman

To put in layman's terms.  If you "Think" something is going to sound good, it "usually" does. 
  
 Ha ha ha..
  
 Well, I say good for you for not drinking the Yggdrasil Kool Aid.  Good luck on the VIVA / Abyss pairing.


----------



## Yoga

preproman said:


> To put in layman's terms.  If you "Think" something is going to sound good, it "usually" does.
> 
> Ha ha ha..
> 
> Well, I say good for you for not drinking the Yggdrasil Kool Aid.  Good luck on the VIVA / Abyss pairing.


 
  
 Indeed, subjectivity cannot ever be underestimated :¬)
  
 You're one of the reasons I'm after the TotalDAC for an audition! Hard to organise it seems.


----------



## preproman

yoga said:


> Indeed, subjectivity cannot ever be underestimated :¬)
> 
> You're one of the reasons I'm after the TotalDAC for an audition! Hard to organise it seems.


 

 Make sure you stay within the home trial period just incase it dose not fit your preference.  You are experienced, so you know this already.. 
  
 Just got the Bricasti M1 in today. This should be interesting..


----------



## Yoga

preproman said:


> Make sure you stay within the home trial period just incase it dose not fit your preference.  You are experienced, so you know this already..
> 
> Just got the Bricasti M1 in today. This should be interesting..


 

 Getting TotalDAC and 845 loan units it proving difficult :¬)
  
 I was following the M1 thread - looking forward to your thoughts on that!


----------



## mulder01

yoga said:


> Which is why I'm sending the Yggy back. During research I was totally hyped about it, when it arrived at my door, it didn't meet my expectations.


 
  
 So they Yggy didn't make much difference to your system after the '5 day warm up' or whatever it is?


----------



## fire2368

Got an obsession with silver cables, I really want to try silver cables on these. Would moon audio silver dragons be a waste?


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> So they Yggy didn't make much difference to your system after the '5 day warm up' or whatever it is?


 

 Nope, not at all. Tried direct to Mac and also through SMS-100 music server. A/B test was impossible to tell apart, and boy did I try :¬)
  
 I'll be auditioning the VIVA Egoista and Numerico next month with my reference tracks. I'll also do my best to get a home audition of the Egoista 845 (hard) and TotalDAC (easy) combination.
  
 Or alternatively, stop wanting for more and enjoy what I have :¬)


----------



## isquirrel

yoga said:


> Nope, not at all. Tried direct to Mac and also through SMS-100 music server. A/B test was impossible to tell apart, and boy did I try :¬)
> 
> I'll be auditioning the VIVA Egoista and Numerico next month with my reference tracks. I'll also do my best to get a home audition of the Egoista 845 (hard) and TotalDAC (easy) combination.
> 
> Or alternatively, stop wanting for more and enjoy what I have :¬)


 

 Thats the perennial issue isn't it,  i have tried all forms of swearing off etc etc, have to admit it I am hooked, there is no hope


----------



## isquirrel

Would be worth giving Roon a try, they have a trial, I have a music server that runs JRiver as a DLNA server into JPlay streamer, great for ultimate SQ, but a PITA to use. Roon is an absolute delight and has opened up my music awareness considerably. Also sounds great, very musical and no fuss. They have Win & Mac versions.


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> Thats the perennial issue isn't it,  i have tried all forms of swearing off etc etc, have to admit it I am hooked, there is no hope


 
  
 Haha! Issue / addiction / vice / hobby / joy. The proverbial mix :¬)
  
 Do you have your hands on the all silver Abyss cables yet by the way?


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> Would be worth giving Roon a try, they have a trial, I have a music server that runs JRiver as a DLNA server into JPlay streamer, great for ultimate SQ, but a PITA to use. Roon is an absolute delight and has opened up my music awareness considerably. Also sounds great, very musical and no fuss. They have Win & Mac versions.


 

 I have the roon trial after you mentioned it, but I can't seem to get the SMS-100 (DLNA mode) going through it. I have JRiver also, but roon only see's USB connected devices.


----------



## negura

yoga said:


> Nope, not at all. Tried direct to Mac and also through SMS-100 music server. A/B test was impossible to tell apart, and boy did I try :¬)
> 
> I'll be auditioning the VIVA Egoista and Numerico next month with my reference tracks. I'll also do my best to get a home audition of the Egoista 845 (hard) and TotalDAC (easy) combination.
> 
> Or alternatively, stop wanting for more and enjoy what I have :¬)


 
  
 Here's a paranoid thought: What if the Egoista won't make any difference either? 
  
 This should work nicely towards the last point you make then.


----------



## Yoga

negura said:


> Here's a paranoid thought: What if the Egoista won't make any difference either?
> 
> This should work nicely towards the last point you make then.


 
  
 I'd be genuinely happy with that outcome. Large sums saved and the search would end...
  
 For a while 
  
 (I'd also be happy if it is as mind blowing as people say, and 'levels' above the Moon, but it's always the same: audition yourself!)


----------



## isquirrel

Not yet, I have gone down the 2 channel route again, system has only just been ordered so decided to use all DHC cables through that. I love his work, not easy to get a highly transparent and engaging sound with powerful bass together.
  
 Just received the HEK's, using the Spore 4 Fusion Abys cables with an adapter, they work fine. So much better that the stock cables which were average to say the least. I have them on 24/7 burn in so early days. Can say though they are definitely not an Abyss killer - at all. Still they are comfortable and I can type and not have to do the headphone balancing thing we all know and love... 
  
 Have good clarity and do most things well, its just the bass, my 1st thoughts were where has it gone, the bottom 2-3 octaves are MIA. Maybe they will improve with time, though do not think the bass will ever be close to the Abyss. Still I rate it as my working on the computer headphone, its warmish not nearly as much as the Audeze but a lot cleaner, I see no need at all for my 3F or X anymore.


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> Not yet, I have gone down the 2 channel route again, system has only just been ordered so decided to use all DHC cables through that. I love his work, not easy to get a highly transparent and engaging sound with powerful bass together.
> 
> Just received the HEK's, using the Spore 4 Fusion Abys cables with an adapter, they work fine. So much better that the stock cables which were average to say the least. I have them on 24/7 burn in so early days. Can say though they are definitely not an Abyss killer - at all. Still they are comfortable and I can type and not have to do the headphone balancing thing we all know and love...
> 
> Have good clarity and do most things well, its just the bass, my 1st thoughts were where has it gone, the bottom 2-3 octaves are MIA. Maybe they will improve with time, though do not think the bass will ever be close to the Abyss. Still I rate it as my working on the computer headphone, its warmish not nearly as much as the Audeze but a lot cleaner, I see no need at all for my 3F or X anymore.


 

 I bet that's a killer 2ch system you have lined up :¬)
  
 I'm doing that headphone balanced bop as we speak. Second nature now! I _was_ tempted to try the HE1K, but many have said the same as yourself so I don't really see the need. I'm well and truly accustomed to the Abyss sound, any non-Abyss just sounds weird (no wonderful bass and separation/layering/soundstage).
  
 I was holding off the Spore4 order (copper/silver fusion) to hear your thoughts on all silver, but I might just plump for it as yourself and Frice (if I recall correctly) speak incredibly highly of it.


----------



## isquirrel

Best to hop on the Roon forums, those guys are good developers, they were the brains behind Sooloos and still have good ties with Meridian so you can expect to MQA appearing there 1st. I am having same issues as you with running as a DLNA, but hopeful of a fix in the next couple of days. Lucky to have the guys working with me (IT coders) doing something useful for a change 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I will PM you with the workaround when we have up and running should by end of this week. Its Tidal implementation is great.


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> Best to hop on the Roon forums, those guys are good developers, they were the brains behind Sooloos and still have good ties with Meridian so you can expect to MQA appearing there 1st. I am having same issues as you with running as a DLNA, but hopeful of a fix in the next couple of days. Lucky to have the guys working with me (IT coders) doing something useful for a change
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wonderful - thanks very much :¬)

 I could not bare Tidals UI. Roon is infinitely nicer!


----------



## isquirrel

yoga said:


> Wonderful - thanks very much :¬)
> 
> I could not bare Tidals UI. Roon is infinitely nicer!


 

 Agreed 100% Roon is well funded, well developed and with a future. They seem to be putting out weekly builds now, ATM they are focusing on the iOS app and going through the laborious Apple approval process. Should be out any day now. My plan is to have Roon running on my desktop as the control PC so it can use its processing power then store and play the files on the headless music server so I can use JPlay, latest version 6.1 is the best yet, PITA can use only FLAC or WAV files but it sounds so good. Finally use the iOS app as the 2nd control centre. Thats the plan anyway.


----------



## isquirrel

Got some new toys this week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 went down with a friend Fririce0003 to Sydney and compared the big 4 box DAC (not allowed to name names, but I'm sure you can work it out) stunning price $150K here and all the rave ATM and compared it to the Kalliope, we were all stunned, we could not believe the difference, we were all expecting the *** to easily be the best digital sound we had ever heard, but nope the Kalliope utterly destroyed it, in fact it was easily the biggest difference we heard all day comparing 2 channel amps etc etc. I checked the *** to see if it was setup right, it was. Lucky for me they had a new Kalliope so of course it made its way onto the plane home


----------



## icebear

So the mighty "Composer of the Four season's" DAC got bested by a one box machine of Danmark
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 Sounds like a really interesting high end listening session and an impulse buy.
 Congrats and sorry [very] for your wallet.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

So I guess Saber is hip again? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Congrats and on the new DAC!  I hear it's stellar.


----------



## isquirrel

I heard the Kalliope some while back under what probably wasn't the best conditions after having driven through the night and was fatigued beyond belief, my hearing had shut down as a result. Plus I was listening through an ALO SS head-amp not a good 2 channel system. I wrote it off as it was Sabre based. Shouldn't have done that (although after the Abyss thing I am getting used to having a pie in the face regularly) on thinking it through though you can't hear a DAC chip you can only hear how its been implemented. In the Kalliope it uses 2 however it does 6 x DSD ! Never seen that spec before. It doesn't sound anything like a Sabre DAC, in fact it doesn't sound like any DAC I have heard before.
  
 Glad I heard in the context of the ***, they think I am crazy using it in a headphone system. Love my headphone listening.
  
 The Light Harmonic was very good and the R2R config is excellent. They are different DAC's though. Its all down to personal taste IMHO. The inside of the Kalliope looks like a an amplifier circuit more than a DAC.


----------



## isquirrel

yoga said:


> Haha! Issue / addiction / vice / hobby / joy. The proverbial mix :¬)
> 
> Do you have your hands on the all silver Abyss cables yet by the way?


 

 Just spoke with Peter, he's finishing up my cables + adapters they should be here in a week. Apparently everything with the Silver is better, bass is the same volume but better layered again. I didn't realise that every strand is isolated and damped.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

isquirrel said:


> Just spoke with Peter, he's finishing up my cables + adapters they should be here in a week. Apparently everything with the Silver is better, bass is the same volume but better layered again. *I didn't realise that every strand is isolated and damped.*


 
  
 Yeah, Peter's stuff is pretty special.  He is a man all about the fine details in his product.  Every time I talk to him I am blown away by how much thought goes into his work.


----------



## snormal

Couldn't imagine the vivaldi stack is trashed by gryphon...But may I ask what cable linkages are used in eds stack...AES? According to dcs, the best result is going full AES link-up. In Hong Kong, one audiophile uses AQ top series Wel signature AES linking through his stack, the above cable plus the 4 power cords already exceed the price of the vivaldi stack....so crazy


----------



## isquirrel

The cost of the cables to upgrade that stack is punishing, although at that price I doubt it would be an issue. Can't confirm it was the dCS as I keep getting myself in trouble naming names, had no idea the manufacturers keep so on top of what goes in the various Audio forums. I guess I am not surprised that they do.
  
 If you doubt me, just wait until Fririce0003 posts about the experience, I truly was not expecting that outcome.


----------



## doyouknowSBmean

I do believe what isquirrel posted are true. I have many experience in Hi-End sources such as old Mark Levinson flagship and dCS old flagship. Headphone systems are just more sensitive to tune signature change (such as rich or thin/ dark or bright) but not sound quality (such imaging/sound stage/speed etc). Some times an analog cable or a tube amplifier make more sense than those ultra expensive DACs. Situation is totally not the same in speaker system. But I totally understand guys choose Hi-End sources in headphones system. There are many other reasons just can't tell.


----------



## isquirrel

The rest of the chain was D'Agostino Pre & mono's, Gryphon Pandora & Colosseum, D'Agostino Momentum. 
  
 I have worked in the high end industry, been a major distributor for a number of high end companies and had a number of reference standard high end systems in the past 30 years. Not new to this game. Telling it straight, but again this is just my opinion, on this day it was shared by 2 others. I urge anyone who has the opportunity to listen to this stuff themselves, it is the only way you are ever going to find out 1st hand experience. Personal taste is subjective. I can see some would prefer the other DAC, it surprised me as given how it the other DSAC had been raved about I was looking forward to hearing it.
  
 My 2 channel system is coming along nicely should be ready in 8 weeks, unfortunately this is head-fi only over here. Good to check out WBF, AA and AGon


----------



## snormal

Omg!! Dan d'agostino...one of my dream American amp...can't beat the metalware finish of it.
is it goldmund on the right side?
maybe we shouldn't' hijack this thread anymore...haha


----------



## Yoga

Goodness, the Kalliope is that good? Had no idea you'd sold the DaVinci.
  
 My jaw dropped at that 2ch setup, can't imagine how good that sounds. Next time I'm in Aus, can I pop over?


----------



## isquirrel

Yep the Kalliope is that good, the DaVinci went to a good home, it's well loved. Couldn't make a call on the DaVinci vs the Kalliope unless they were side by side. The Kalliope we heard was new too, very few hours on it. 

2 channel is all confirmed, wanted a special order colour for the speakers so have to wait 6-8 weeks for those. Rest of it will be all Gryphon, Pandora, Mephisto etc. I was going to sell my head-fi rig & get a TT as well but thinking it through I get too much joy and use from Head-Fi. It's quite funny the 2 channel high end guys think we all crazy, hmm indeed well in case the lunatics are running the asylum. Seriously they do not get head-fi at all. Trying to get them to listen to headphones is not easy. Invariably once they get over that the interest is there. 

I still think headphones offer a more intimate and detailed sound, however my partner is looking forwards to being able to listen together


----------



## Yoga

Indeed, as much as I love the Abyss, there is nothing quite like being 'hit' by the sound, saturating your body. With the right setup its a truly sublime experience.


----------



## Fririce0003

I'll be sure to post my findings from Monday as soon as I can, just at the gym right now. But as an Abyss lover and having gotten into hifi with headphones and having a decent, not on I lsquirrels level, speaker system. I can say listening to a proper 2 ch system sure was an eye opener and came with plenty of pleasant, even un expected findings.


----------



## pearljam50000

So you are saying speakers are much better than headphones?


fririce0003 said:


> I'll be sure to post my findings from Monday as soon as I can, just at the gym right now. But as an Abyss lover and having gotten into hifi with headphones and having a decent, not on I lsquirrels level, speaker system. I can say listening to a proper 2 ch system sure was an eye opener and came with plenty of pleasant, even un expected findings.


----------



## snormal

I would say 2ch and headphone could co-exist. For 2ch, you need to be at the emperor seat for best imaging. While, you could still enjoy high quality music in front of your computer with your headphone on


----------



## fire2368

Wow the Kalliope! I would love to try the Kalliope, it looks really intriguing... Congrats on your purchase!
  
 I just got my Pass Labs INT-30a today, can't wait to get those adapters. I'm already amazed with my speakers hooked up to them!


----------



## Fririce0003

Quote:


pearljam50000 said:


> So you are saying speakers are much better than headphones?


 
  
   To be honest for overall musical enjoyment I did prefer the speaker system, all factors aside; cost, lifestyle, space, use etc. The speaker system I listened to on Monday was a good jump ahead of my current headphone system. Miles ahead of my current speaker system as well. Tonality was more musical, pacing and timing was more exacting and effortless. The dynamics, scale and imaging were all superior as well, plus the physical impact and sense you get from speakers can never be replicated with headphones. With speakers you have multiple drivers doing a specific task rather than a single driver trying to do all things. If the individual drivers are properly time aligned and integrated such as on the Alexia's there's not much comparison. The speakers just have more to work with and less design constraints, so they will inherently have more potential. That aside the simple physics of having speakers moving massive volumes of air and creating a physical listening space around the listener will have far more depth and scale simply due to the fact it physically has that ability to re create the depth and scale, the ability to move the air around. It's a different experience entirely. That's why before posting your scorn I ask, have you ever heard a 2ch system at that level? If not I strongly suggest that you do if the chance arises, it certainly is an eye opener.
  
   Is it enough for me to exit Head fi? No. Right now the limiting factor for me would be room size and somewhere appropriate to place them, the hours I work and therefore listen to music and also the staggering cost difference. If we exclude the components that can be used in either system; DAC, source, cables, power treatment. The speaker system would still be at least 6-7 times more. Having both the speakers and headphone systems would be ideal, cost aside, speakers for primary listening. Headphones for late night listening or when working away at a desk or in front of the computer.
  
   To my ears at least speakers do have the edge in sound when setup properly in an appropriate room (though the room auditioned in wasn't exactly ideal it still did sound better) , but headphones have the edge in cost, ease of use and lifestyle adaptability.
  
  
   Now as for my findings on Monday I'll keep it brief, but the biggest surprise was easily the kalliope. For my tastes it easily bested the other DAC that was auditioned, almost no comparison, I had expected it to be a lot closer and honestly in the favor of the other DAC. Learnt the valuable lesson that you should always audition gear before buying as everyones tastes are different, you can never simply go by review.
   Another big thing I leant was the difference in presentation and overall sound of a top tier speaker system and a top tier headphone system as explained above.
   The other big thing I took from the day was how much even just the power amplifier can change the sound and presentation of the music even when using the same pre amp. Then there were all the tips, tweaks and setup lessons I learnt from Isquirrel, you just can't replace the knowledge that others have built up by years and decades in the industry.
   Overall a great experience and I'd suggest others take it upon themselves to do the same if possible to get that extra perspective. I could write more, far more, but I'll avoid overly clogging this thread.


----------



## isquirrel

Depends on what speakers compared to what headphones, $ for $ no, the headphones would my preference, but at a SOTA level disregarding cost, living arrangements etc then no speakers are far better. 
  
 Have look at the photo below of a custom built listening room. He is well known in high audio circles and the value of that system (which includes a TT & reel to reel) is very substantial. Most importantly he has a great music collection. It has taken him many years of hard work to put that together.


----------



## FiftyKilo

Hi,
  





  
 I also did know, what it means to have a large two channel High-End Equipment. My MARTION Orgon four Way full activ Hornspeakersystem did have 116dB 1W/m and can produce a very deep bass impact in my listening room. 
  
 Toegether with the legendary APOLYT Turntable with his "50 kg" Platter, this system is good for very fine Music reproduction. 
  
 But since I have my ABYSS with the Cavalli LAu and the REGA ISIS Valve CD Player in my Sleeping Room,  I am so deeply impressed by this musical experience. Looking forward when the EGOISTA will arrive and what then will be.
  
 I doesn't have any problems with IHL and so within minutes of listening with the ABYSS, I enjoy a large soundstage with fine deepness.
  
 So what did I like most ? I like both and it is good to have the opportunity to chosen for what I have fun.


----------



## FiftyKilo

Here comes the picture:


----------



## mulder01

fiftykilo said:


> Here comes the picture:


 
 Very nice looking setup.  Explains where the name FiftyKilo comes from too
 Is your profile picture of your custom Abyss?  Is that the red and black one we saw a little while ago?  Made to match the feature wall colour I assume?


----------



## Beolab

fiftykilo said:


> Hi,
> 
> [url=http://up.picr.de/22479488mg.jpg%5B/img]http://up.picr.de/22479488mg.jpg[/img[/url]]
> 
> ...


----------



## mulder01

beolab said:


> Link does not work any longer ;(


 
  
 The html tags are messed up.  Try this:


----------



## FiftyKilo

Thank you Mulder for your kind  help with the picture !  Yes, my profile picture is that of my deep red custom ABYSS. You are right, the colour of the wall in my listening room is nearly the same as the Abyss. But the Abyss was never in this room, because I only use the Abyss  / LAu / ISIS in my bedroom.
 I like to listen around midnight to my favorite music and when I fall in sleep, I turn off the music, put the headphone away and then close the eyse. 
 The Headphone stereo system is just my sleeping pill !


----------



## Yoga

Lovely setup 50K!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Has anyone else been anxiously awaiting @isquirrel's HE1000 vs AB-1266 comparison and checking everyday specifically for his post, or is it just me?


----------



## isquirrel

bigfatpaulie said:


> Has anyone else been anxiously awaiting @isquirrel's HE1000 vs AB-1266 comparison and checking everyday specifically for his post, or is it just me?


 

 Its coming, this morning the HE-1000's are up to 10 hours so I will get onto it today, sorry for the delay I like to make sure something has stabilised before commenting on it.


----------



## isquirrel

mulder01 said:


> The html tags are messed up.  Try this:


 

 Wow !B love it, love the sound of horns with SET's


----------



## preproman

bigfatpaulie said:


> Has anyone else been anxiously awaiting @isquirrel's HE1000 vs AB-1266 comparison and checking everyday specifically for his post, or is it just me?


----------



## Beolab

preproman said:


>




Yes it feels like for ages! 

When is it coming 

Sheering for the Abyss, so i don't need to buy new headphones


----------



## isquirrel

Actually I thought preproman did a very good write on them. I will get it done today, rather busy ATM its Friday am here.
  
 If you are going to buy a HE-100 do it you won't get it, same for the Abyss - if I had to choose one headphone it would be the Abyss because there is nothing like it, the HE-1000 is NOT an Abyss killer, its different. The best solution is to have both. They co-exist in a system well together.
  
 I like to get opinions off my partner as she is an Audiophile (Rare to find amongst females) but takes a simplistic view of things whereas I like most men over complicate it. She said this morning when were discussion the strengths and weaknesses of both, that she knew that the Abyss was the ultimate Headphone but she couldn't live with it because she finds the fitment uncomfortable. I agree, when I am at the computer and working or cruising the forums I have found myself picking up the HE-100's every time. They are just so much more comfortable. I made the point that you do get used to the Abyss fit, wobble etc, but she is adamant that why should she as the customer have to conform, it should conform to her.
  
 Review is coming, promise


----------



## philo50

> the HE-1000 is NOT an Abyss killer, its different. The best solution is to have both. They co-exist in a system well together.


----------



## Beolab

isquirrel said:


> Actually I thought preproman did a very good write on them. I will get it done today, rather busy ATM its Friday am here.
> 
> If you are going to buy a HE-100 do it you won't get it, same for the Abyss - if I had to choose one headphone it would be the Abyss because there is nothing like it, the HE-1000 is NOT an Abyss killer, its different. The best solution is to have both. They co-exist in a system well together.
> 
> ...




Funny, my wife said the exact same thing, it does not fit my head and it is uncomfortable, so sell them, and turn down the volume because its too freeking load!  haha 


One thing is that females usually have a little smaller heads so thats one factor, and i cant imagine any women in the world would buy a headphone for 6500$ , even if it produced the best sound the human kind had ever experienced

So the Abyss and NordOst Odin / Kimber Silver cables / Krell / MBL / Kharma and other high end brands / models, i cant see any women have or will ever buy them, if they not are forced to it by a man  I know this sounds a little hard and is a controversial discussion , but High End HiFi , High End Car / Bike / computer / constructing and other hobbys are man dominated only. I now a few HiFi interesting girls, but they are on a diffrent level of deepness in technology vice and pricetag of their system, because they get satisfied on a much faster and lower level, and do not need to by a system for 300k grand to be satisfied. 
 So testosterone do many things with our man brains, but maybe it may also have taken us to the civilisation standard we have today, is one aspect. And if the wimen's think like we men do, i think we have already blow up earth long time ago, so they act as a opposite weight to strain us a bit .  

And then we also have a few who choose to live by them self so no one get in their way to go all in on their expensive hobby as a substitute for their loneliness is another aspect of the dime .


----------



## isquirrel

My experience is different. Whilst it is true that there are fewer email audiophiles they do exist, when they buy they come in well informed and well researched, they will have a list of just a few pieces of equipment to auction. They never buy anything unless they hear it 1st and always insist on a proper home installation. A good thing. They also typically spend far more than the average purchase by a male. I have sold systems up to $500,000 to women.
  
 They sometimes buy Turntables. Female's hearing is generally much more sensitive, I often use my partner with system setup's. Last night we were listening to the differences between brands of fuses and then the best direction for the fuse, she does the listening for that type of thing where the changes are small.
  
 The female audiophiles I have met usually like to spend a larger amount on a big upgrade infrequently - Men are pretty much always looking for the next thing and upgrade far more often. Women will only deal with people they trust and then once they do they will rely on you for system advice and are very loyal.
  
 I could go on and on, but no you can't say that women are not interested in high end audio because they are, albeit in much smaller numbers. My partner gets quite offended at shows when she is ignored in favour of the men. However she is just as keen as me perhaps more so, she is pushing me hard everyday to get our 2 channel system up and running asap. I think we are driven by the gear (they have clothes & jewellery) women are driven more by the looks and the music.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

isquirrel said:


> My experience is different. Whilst it is true that there are fewer email audiophiles they do exist, when they buy they come in well informed and well researched, they will have a list of just a few pieces of equipment to auction. They never buy anything unless they hear it 1st and always insist on a proper home installation. A good thing. They also typically spend far more than the average purchase by a male. I have sold systems up to $500,000 to women.
> 
> They sometimes buy Turntables. Female's hearing is generally much more sensitive, *I often use my partner with system setup's. Last night we were listening to the differences between brands of fuses and then the best direction for the fuse, she does the listening for that type of thing where the changes are small.*
> 
> ...


 
  
 Small changes indeed.  Female or not, your wife obviously has exceptional hearing as a person.  And to think I have a often have a hard time differentiating cables!


----------



## isquirrel

bigfatpaulie said:


> Small changes indeed.  Female or not, your wife obviously has exceptional hearing as a person.  And to think I have a often have a hard time differentiating cables!


 

 I don't believe listening skills are natural, they are a skill you develop over time with experience. TBH before I worked for WIlson I could hear changes but didn't know if they were correct or not and I ddid not know how to explain what I was hearing.  The experience of having someone very knowledgable sitting next you guiding you is invaluable, particularly with speaker setup. I was taught that just because I can hear a difference doesn't necessarily make it right, a lot of audiophiles proclaim the latest piece of gear as having more of this & that but it may be correct in respect that it would not be how the music would sound if you heard the orchestra, band or soloist live. Most people can hear pretty much equally the difference is how sensitive they are to sound. I would love to be pitch perfect I am not. Headphones are an invaluable tool, we learn to listen to the smallest detail, they have helped improve my listening skills a lot.
  
 In my experience females have better high frequency hearing (probably a genetic attribute for the caring of babies etc) we have better appreciation of the lower mids and bass. My wife nearly had a fit this morning when I suggested that 1 power amp might not be enough, maybe we needed (no-one needs) mono blocks.


----------



## Beolab

isquirrel said:


> My experience is different. Whilst it is true that there are fewer email audiophiles they do exist, when they buy they come in well informed and well researched, they will have a list of just a few pieces of equipment to auction. They never buy anything unless they hear it 1st and always insist on a proper home installation. A good thing. They also typically spend far more than the average purchase by a male. I have sold systems up to $500,000 to women.
> 
> They sometimes buy Turntables. Female's hearing is generally much more sensitive, I often use my partner with system setup's. Last night we were listening to the differences between brands of fuses and then the best direction for the fuse, she does the listening for that type of thing where the changes are small.
> 
> ...




Yes i know, and i buy what you are saying totally. 
I run a Bang&Olufsen Store in Sweden, so i know what i talk about when it comes to High Priced equipment.
My jobb is to translate all the fuzzy bits into a easy understanding and my selling approach is not to stay day in and day out and discuss technical details with my customers, i try to make it simple and as easy as i can, so i ask them: - Do you like what you see and hear, then its the right product for you. 
The common customers "knowhow" is pretty low, and about 90% of the customers have a knowledge that is equal btw man and women if we take technology and materials and funktion in, then we have the last 10% that consists of speciallists, professionalism who work in the business , Geeks , Audiophiles, scientists etc, but if i count in the females its lesser than 0,01% during 15 years who i can consider to be sharing the last group of the 10%. 

We have female customers that are more interested in High End Status gear than their husbands yes, but its not their life hobby, to sit in the middle of the night on a forum and discussing a tweak inside a HE-6 headphone , or make a measured diagram of the ground noise floor of an DAC for example. 

They look a the visuals and ask them self ---what can this product for-fill for me, and then yes it sound descent also. They then get a magic feeling and buy it. 

But they don't set up the system, and need expertise in what components they need to for fill their goal. 

So i can say without lying that its on a different aspect level.

And i don't think your wife or my wife had bought the High End gear by them self, if it wasn't for us who showing the way, because it lyes in our interests in life, and your wife is your companion, and likes to do what you are doing, or in some cases hate what your up to. =) 


Thats life..


----------



## bigfatpaulie

isquirrel said:


> I don't believe listening skills are natural, they are a skill you develop over time with experience. TBH before I worked for WIlson I could hear changes but didn't know if they were correct or not and I ddid not know how to explain what I was hearing.  The experience of having someone very knowledgable sitting next you guiding you is invaluable, particularly with speaker setup. I was taught that just because I can hear a difference doesn't necessarily make it right, a lot of audiophiles proclaim the latest piece of gear as having more of this & that but it may be correct in respect that it would not be how the music would sound if you heard the orchestra, band or soloist live. Most people can hear pretty much equally the difference is how sensitive they are to sound. I would love to be pitch perfect I am not. Headphones are an invaluable tool, we learn to listen to the smallest detail, they have helped improve my listening skills a lot.
> 
> In my experience females have better high frequency hearing (probably a genetic attribute for the caring of babies etc) we have better appreciation of the lower mids and bass. My wife nearly had a fit this morning when I suggested that 1 power amp might not be enough, maybe we needed (no-one needs) mono blocks.


 
  
 Too bad (for me)  we don' live closer, I would try to convince you to let me be your protege.
  
 It is very interesting to hear your approach - listening as a developable skill; much the same way a sommelier develops their sense of taste.  I suppose I've never really considered that, at least not in the sense that you are talking about: a teacher and student sitting together.  I suppose it makes a surprisingly great deal of sense, particularly when you consider the amount of conflict as to what is voodoo and what are real changes.
  
 I suppose I've taken the same approach (different to what you are talking about) to many things that my father taught me....  Story time.
  
 My father is an avid wine drinker, maker and lover.  When I was young I once asked him what made a 'good wine'.  He poured me a small glass and offered it to me.  After I drank he asked, "Did you like it?" To which I nodded.  "Then it is a good wine."
  
 I've always loved that simplistic approach to an often over-complicated, overly saturated with detail world.  Sometimes it is easy to let the nuances get in the way of enjoyment (I'm not suggesting that that is what is happening here, however).
  
 Anyway, thank you for your insight as an "old salt" in the industry.


----------



## isquirrel

bigfatpaulie said:


> Too bad (for me)  we don' live closer, I would try to convince you to let me be your protege.
> 
> It is very interesting to hear your approach - listening as a developable skill; much the same way a sommelier develops their sense of taste.  I suppose I've never really considered that, at least not in the sense that you are talking about: a teacher and student sitting together.  I suppose it makes a surprisingly great deal of sense, particularly when you consider the amount of conflict as to what is voodoo and what are real changes.
> 
> ...


 

 I love the story of your Father, that is precisely what we are seeking, in the case of life it happiness, and form a audio system, musical enjoyment, I think I get as much enjoyment out of listening to the equipment as I do talking about it, and the equipment itself I appreciate and drive enjoyment out of as I think of the engineering etc. I find that by doing a lot listening to different equipment I acquire e better sense of my sonic and aesthetic preferences, over time that helps to improve my listening skills. However it really is a simple as this, on Monday when I took a group of Audiophiles to listen to a number of different components for the whole day they were asking what should I look for, should I make notes (I consider this important) as it give me years of notebooks to go back over and trace my own enrolment and to get a better understanding of where my taste is heading. For instance I get a new piece of equipment, and usually it takes a good few weeks before everything is settled down and fully run, my ears need that time to become used the new sound. Then I start to break the sound down and become more analytical of it. At some stage (hopefully) you think to yourself wow that sounds fantastic right there, so I make a note so I can when inevitably things have changed I can look back and see whats changed and when. The bigger the system the more important this is. I learnt this "habit" off David Wilson he has hundreds of notepads, when he sits down and listens to a new system he invariably gets it out and makes a sketch of how the speakers are setup, sometimes he notes the actual measurements, he notes the shape of the room and the shapes of the furniture in it. He's building a note that gives him a resource for the future. Every system is different, much less so in Head-Fi so its strange we are discussing it here. With big systems there are so many components to it, from the valves used, the cartridge, the arm, what type of cables, how treated was the listening room, what type of music did we play. I do for every set of speakers and system I put together. Most times (rolling my eyes) we will achieve good sound that the customer or dealer is happy with, then a few days later I get a phone call, Simonsomethigsn happened and it doesn't sound as good as when you were here. Well I am not going to hop on a plane again and its impossible to explain how you did it, so I take measurements of where the speakers were. That way if the customer follows that he should be able to get the system back to how it was. I have never had a customer not play with a system when its been setup, sometimes they do an even better job than I did. I like to do system setups over a few days so my ears get used to the altitude and room acoustics and build report with the customer as he gets to listen to it at night so the following day they will ask can you show me this or can we get some more bass, the imaging might have changed. 
  
 Talking of imaging the single biggest pain in the backside of my life is getting imaging dead in the centre, I love that I don't have to worry about that with headphones. A few weeks ago a customer PM  me about the Woo 234's and his reason for not liking then was the seperate volume controls, he said he would have to run a seperate pre amp so he would know the volume was the same. I suggested he use his ears instead, that he never get the volume controls to sit equal as with tubes there was practically no chance that both sets would be identical. A lot of people are afraid to say, I can't hear what you are talking about, can you help me. They seem to doubt their ears. Well unless you have hearing damage chances are your hearing is as good as mine and the next guys so you can hear it, they just don't understand what they are hearing.
  
 I ws in toi wine before I stopped drinking and I went to a number of wine company tasting sessions with friends in the industry they were talking a different language it seemed I had no idea and frankly came away from the experience feeling like a philistine.
  
 So sorry to ramble on, the point I am trying to make is that at the end of the day the best way to know how much you enjoy something is to see how often you do it. This is how I have approached the HE-1000 - Abyss scenario. Over a week which one have I reached for more?
  
 I need to stop getting carried away and get on with writing my impressions. Sorry easily distracted.


----------



## isquirrel

beolab said:


> Yes i know, and i buy what you are saying totally.
> I run a Bang&Olufsen Store in Sweden, so i know what i talk about when it comes to High Priced equipment.
> My jobb is to translate all the fuzzy bits into a easy understanding and my selling approach is not to stay day in and day out and discuss technical details with my customers, i try to make it simple and as easy as i can, so i ask them: - Do you like what you see and hear, then its the right product for you.
> The common customers "knowhow" is pretty low, and about 90% of the customers have a knowledge that is equal btw man and women if we take technology and materials and funktion in, then we have the last 10% that consists of speciallists, professionalism who work in the business , Geeks , Audiophiles, scientists etc, but if i count in the females its lesser than 0,01% during 15 years who i can consider to be sharing the last group of the 10%.
> ...


 

 Greta stuff, I don't deal with the same customers as you, I would think they are much diverse in primary interested in a the best lifestyle product. B&O are the best at that. My father loves his, is always saying to me don't know why you bother with all that fiddling around you do, well that is until he listens to the result. You are a viable position of having customer who want your product, rather like Porsche or Ferrari etc. I would imagine you don't have endless discussions about what sounds better and have you heard this or that. To be honest sometimes I just want to reach for the iPad and play something quick and easy. When I had my big 2 channel system I reckoned it took me an hour a day everyday to just maintain it. IT was vinyl based which is really adding a whole new level of trauma (insanity) and everything was running tubes, not much fun when you have try and work out why the system sounds off !
  
 My partner really wants a Turntable but I am trying persuade her otherwise. I know who will be doing the maintenance


----------



## bmichels

I am looking forward testing an ABYSS with my VIVA EGOISTA that I hope to receive in 1 or 2 months.  
  
 I hope that the gap with my curent set-up " Eddie Curent 445 + LCD-X (or TH900) "  will be wide enough to justify (to my wife 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) this new investment ...


----------



## Beolab

bmichels said:


> I am looking forward testing an ABYSS with my VIVA EGOISTA that I hope to receive in 1 or 2 months.
> 
> I hope that the gap with my curent set-up " Eddie Curent 445 + LCD-X (or TH900) "  will be wide enough to justify (to my wife   ) this new investment ...




And the price for the Egoista is over 10.000$ ?


----------



## bmichels

superfred21 said:


> *Solid state amp* : Schiit Ragnarok ; Mass Ko Bo 394 ; Luxman P700u
> *Tube amp *:  Eddie Current Balancing Act ; Viva 2A3
> *The best of the best *: Viva Egoista


 
  
 Superfred21, since you heard booth the 2A3 & 845, don't you, like some people here, sometime prefer the "musicality & finess" of the VIVA 2A3 rather than the "raw force & impact" of the VIVA 845 ?  Don't you consider that it depend on the music listened: for "intimate vocal" the VIVA 2A3  may be better while for Music that has a lot of dynamic range (complex orchestra works) the 845 will sound better  ?


----------



## isquirrel

That's part of the appeal of Head_fo components they are so much smaller and fit in our Den's. Though I have the opposite with my wife, she is pushing for more equipment, I am a lucky man.


----------



## isquirrel

Right finished the Abyss VS HE-1000 review now to get it down in a post, stay tuned


----------



## bigfatpaulie

isquirrel said:


> Right finished the Abyss VS HE-1000 review now to get it down in a post, stay tuned


----------



## bmichels

isquirrel said:


> Right finished the Abyss VS HE-1000 review now to get it down in a post, stay tuned


 
  
 with a WOO234 I believe ?  or a VIVA Egoista ?


----------



## Beolab

isquirrel said:


> Right finished the Abyss VS HE-1000 review now to get it down in a post, stay tuned






 just post it, we are ready


----------



## bmichels

isquirrel said:


> Right finished the Abyss VS HE-1000 review now to get it down in a post, stay tuned


 
  
 please do.... 
  
*Indeed, i have the feeling that I still have not found "MY Headphone" & "MY AMP" !*
  
*( *on my EC445, I like my TH900 and dislike my LCD-X (I prefer the LCD-X direct on my HUGO !?), but still not totally satisfied by the TH900. Sometime wonder if I should have bought a LCD-3 instead of the LCD-X ? or... should not have bought a LCD at all and instead bought a MrSpeaker ETHER, or HifiMan HE1000 or an ABYSS)


----------



## isquirrel

Here it is my impressions and those of my partner re the Abyss & the HE-1000
  
 Photos 1st.
  

  


 The DHC connector, on the other end it runs a 3 pin balanced connector, there would be much if any signal loss the way it has been implemented.


----------



## Beolab

isquirrel said:


> Here it is my impressions and those of my partner re the Abyss & the HE-1000
> 
> Photos 1st.
> 
> ...




And your impressions?


----------



## isquirrel

*The system used:*
  
 Source: (information and photos removed at the manufacturers request)
  
  
  
  
 Photo attached:
  
  

*DAC:* Gryphon Kalliope
  
  
*Amplifiers:*
  
 Woo 234 mono's running Takatsuki 300B, 274B and Black Plate, Black Glass 1940's RCA 6SN7 - running Cathode Output Low-Z for both headphones to suit the low impedances.
  
*Power:* Dedicated 20 amp line, all Shunyata, TritonV2, Typhon and all Sigma PC's High Currect PC's for the amps and Sigma Digital PC's for the music server & DAC. Custom Synergistic RED fuses for all components:
  


  
  
*Headphone cable* are the same for both - DHC Spore 4 Fusion, individual balanced cables with Xhadow plugs, adapter used for the HE-1000
  

  

  
  
*Runtime:*
  
 The Abyss - 1,000+ hours, the HE-1000 - 120 hours
 Kalliope - 125 hours
  
 Listening Notes were compared between my partner and myself over a 24 hour period with various genres of music, ranging from soloist classical performances to full scale orchestral pieces, EDM and eclectic french rock. andJazz and female/male vocal. A mixture of 16/44 PCM up to 24/384 and DSD up to a sample rate of 256 was used.
  
*Soundstage:*
  
 Abyss is further away from the listener, the HE-1000 puts you either in the front row or in the mix with the performers. Generally felt that the soundstage was more open and wider on the HE-1000, soundstage vocals also seemed to be higher than Abyss
  
*Tonality: *
  
 HE-1000 slightly warmer than Abyss, this is somewhat confusing at 1st listen as the HE-1000 is certainly cleaner and sounds more direct so I thought the opposite initially - However the HE-1000 does tonal textures better and instruments seperation is greater. Notes "More personal (HE-1000) I am sitting there and they are singing to me, lets the emotion come through, gives me an idea of what they were feeling, song was written for a reason, did they suffer a loss, sad, allows me to feel there pain" Abyss - feel more distant not as involved - the weight and emotional meaning of the song is not getting through to me in the same way, I feel like I have lost the connection with the vocalist, it sounds like a recording - there are plenty of special effects, almost like a home theatre system, impressive but disjointed in respect of conveying the totality of the performance.
  
*Clarity:*
  
 Abyss sounds a little muffled, the HE-1000 sounds so clear, not understanding/hearing the splashy treble people have been referring to? system synergy perhaps, HE-1000 sounds very high resolution, the Abyss while good is not in the same class. HE-1000 - greater contrast. Can feel the bass pressure building before the note, excellent attack, sustain and decay, Abyss seems to do special effects well. HE-1000 great extra texture, can hear inside the notes.
  
*Comfort:*
  
 (my Partner) "The Abyss is forcing me to adapt to the headphone, I feel like I am having to concentrate on balancing the headphones on my head, constantly moving the headphone as my ears keep moving inside them - frustrating & annoying after a while but above all it is distracting, taking my focus away from the music" "Abyss fatigues me, HE-1000 I want to go on listening, just  heavily engrossed in the music. Clear winner is the HE-1000 here. With the Abyss, I have become so used to them so that I have come to not be as aware of them, I was surprised that over a week I have picked the HE-1000's every time to listen to, now the Abyss feels uncomfortable and awkward again, fiddling with the fit a lot, gets better after having worn them for a while. Still they are distracting and I am constantly aware of them and that takes my 100% focus away from the music
  
*Bass Performance:*
  
 Abyss - I was initially attracted as I think a lot of us are to the outstanding bass performance, I have never heard a headphone produce as much bass in such quantity and quality. My friend and fellow Head-fier Fririce0003 has had the Abyss for a lot longer than me, I have had mine for about 5 months. My 1st response when he asked what I thought of the HE-1000's was where has the bass gone, I said it is MIA and it seems to appear on certain tracks and then you are not aware of it on others. Burn in has helped the HE-1000 open up and the bass to deepen and develop. The bass really seems to have improved in the last 25 hours so I expect this to improve further. My gut feeling is that they need another 150 hours maybe more, I am keeping a spreadsheet which logs all of the hours on every piece of equipment. I will keep a check on this and report when I think they have stabilised and there are no more changes. 
  
 More needs to be discussed about the Abyss bass performance. Fririce0003 (Matt) and I discussed this at length this week and he said that he felt that the Abyss imparted a overly heavy bass imprint on every track and he opined that this was artificial - hence my initial comment re the HE-1000's "where has the bass gone". One of the features that was outstanding about the Kalliope in our comparisons with other SOTA DAC's is it has incredible bass performance. I now realise that the HE-1000's produce good, heavy bass with great extension and weight - when required by the music as part of the performance not in addition to it. The Abyss is more like a subwoofer in a surround system, the bass comes out of nowhere and is exaggerated to an extent. I think this why we like it. Men love bass, women less so, they find it annoying at times. I rarely hear a women say I like that speaker as it has more bass then the other, they don't seem to place it as high on their priorities. I think the HE-1000 has better proportioned bass than the Abyss and it does not run over imprinting it on most music. Its like the Abyss is always looking for a bass heavy track or maybe I am to show what it can do. I wonder how we would all feel if the Abyss was not as heavy in the bass frequencies., would it have gained the following that it has? The drawcard of the Abyss was the its bass performance. Would I have liked as much if it had the bases toned down.
  
 Make no mistake the HE-1000 can produce heavy bass, but it is more tuneful like a well integrated 3-4 driver loudspeaker. I now feel that the Abyss bass is to much of a party trick and this has ultimately become unsatisfying over the long term.
  
*Summary:*
  
 I think the HE-1000 and the Abyss both belong in any serious head-fiers collection, if I had to chose just one, it would be the HE-1000. No doubt this will not be a popular statement however I urge those that can afford both to to get a HE-1000 and then honestly look at how much you use it over time compared to the Abyss. I suspect the results will surprise you. The other major factor here is comfort, the HE-1000 feels substantial enough and the build quality is good. They are not as solid as the Abyss and I suspect that a large part of the budget went into the drivers not the rest of the headphone. I can live with that.
  
 The treble has been much discussed and I have an observation on this, at lower gain the mid range is a little recessed and at higher gain the mid range becomes more prominent whilst the overall sound level doesn't seem to increase that much. These headphones are highly transparent, more so then the Abyss, they need plenty of power to sound their best, system matching is critical.
  
 The comfort of the HE-1000 plays a big part in the attraction, once they are on I simply am not aware of them, unlike the Abyss which love it or not there is no doubt it is not the worlds most comfortable headphone. This limits its use and takes your focus away from the music.
  
 I hope this is useful, Fririce0003 (Matt) will have his mid next week so I expect he will post his impressions. I will keep running them in 24/7 and report on any changes.
  
 Simon


----------



## Badas

^

Heck. One very in depth review. Thanks. Nice work.


----------



## preproman

isquirrel said:


> *Summary:*
> 
> I think the HE-1000 and the Abyss both belong in any serious head-fiers collection, if I had to chose just one, it would be the HE-1000. No doubt this will not be a popular statement however I urge those that can afford both to to get a HE-1000 and then honestly look at how much you use it over time compared to the Abyss. I suspect the results will surprise you. The other major factor here is comfort, the HE-1000 feels substantial enough and the build quality is good. They are not as solid as the Abyss and I suspect that a large part of the budget went into the drivers not the rest of the headphone. I can live with that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Seems like we see somethings alike..
  




  
  
*HE1K vs. Abyss:*
 Comfort goes to the HE1K here.  The Abyss with its funky design turns out to be not as bad as one would think, but the HE1K still wins.
  
 Technicalities i.e. clarity, transient response and resolution.  I’ll give the edge to the HE1K because of its clarity and speed again 2 out of 3.  Resolution is always a tricky one for me but I would say the Abyss resolves low-level detail better.  The HE1K has issues with low-level information IMO.
  
 Soundstage, air, imaging and separation.  HE1K take the stage width and height, both have good air and separation of instruments but the Abyss takes the cake with its imaging.  Compared to the Abyss the HE1K seems defused a little or may lose focus a little while the Abyss is pinpoint and stays focused throughout.
  
 The bass area again is good with both.  With the Abyss it feels like my 2 Epic dual 15” subwoofers I have in the living room.  The HE1K feels like a pair headphones with really good bass.  Also, the Abyss bass is more taut or more visceral; the HE1K bass is very well textured with good quantity.
  
 Impact, attack, punch and leading edge go to the Abyss no doubt.  This area of the HE1K is not bad, it’s just not all that good either, so if I had to pick one it would be the Abyss.
  
 Treble and highs on the HE1K are pleasant. The treble on the Abyss is their short fall.  They can be edgy at times and at other times they can be smooth (depending on the track).  The high end on the HE1K is always smooth, pretty damn consistent (to a fault at times).  I think the treble on the Abyss is more true to the recording.
  
 The mids on the Abyss has more presents. The mids on the HEK1 is a bit distant, not as distant as I thought they would be but still not as upfront as the Abyss.  The HE1K has very clean and clear mids they just sit back a little bit. (Not to be confused with recessed) I still like them.  
  
 Tonal Balance.  The Abyss has a pretty good tonal balance but it can be a little rough up top.  The HE1K has a pretty even tonal balance.
  
 Transparency:   Because of all the bass presents the Abyss has.  I’ll give the nod to the HE1K.  Nothing seems to get in the way.  Maybe the most transparent Planar on the market.


----------



## Beolab

Very nice review Simon! 

I have the same impressions as you on the Abyss tonally and detailed wise are they a bit dark in the sound, but it have a great harmonic depth to the sound. We call this type of sound: " The American Sound" here in Europe. The Kharma speakers have a very similar sound like the Abyss i think.

And Preproman: 

What amps and DACś where u using when you where reviewing the Abyss and the 
HE-1k if you could refresh my memory a little?


----------



## fire2368

Good write up @isquirrel and @preproman, I agree with the comments you've made.
  
 I still find that Abyss' sound is less fatiguing, I found the HEK to be too direct at times and with it being more revealing, I definitely needed time to adjust to it. But when you mark its performance based on the accuracy and presentation of detail, the HEK does have the edge. I still think the Abyss is a more fun headphone, definitely an easier headphone to put on and enjoy the music IMO.


----------



## Trance_Gott

I have Abyss and HE1000. They are very different but I love them both!
The Abyss is very special but for Rock & Metal the Best for me! 
On the other side the tonality, speed and details of the HE1000 are amazing stunning!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Thank you so much for the write ups @isquirrel and @preproman very much appreciated!
  
 I somehow get the sense that this is a very similar contrast that is discussed with the LCD3's vs HD800.  Am I correct in feeling that?


----------



## preproman

Well IMO the LCD-3 would be at the lower end of the TOTL headphones.  
  
 The technicalities of the HD800, HE1K and Abyss just crushes the LCD-3.  But we all know - we don't like the LCD-3 for it's technicalities - we like it because of it's warm to dark sound sig with lush mids and deep bass.  They can sometimes just draw you in.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

preproman said:


> Well IMO the LCD-3 would be at the lower end of the TOTL headphones.
> 
> The technicalities of the HD800, HE1K and Abyss just crushes the LCD-3.  But we all know - we don't like the LCD-3 for it's technicalities - we like it because of it's warm to dark sound sig with lush mids and deep bass.  They can sometimes just draw you in.


 
  
 I'm not saying performance wise - absolutely it is in a different league.  I was more referring to general comments made when contrasting them...
  
 One has a lot of bass: said about LCD3's and Abyss.
 Tighter, less exaggerated bass: 800's, HE1k
 Airy, spacious treble: HE1k and HD800.
 Uncomfortable, comfortable, LCD3/Abyss and HE1k/HD800.
 More amp dependent, less amp dependent, HD800/Abyss, LCD3/HE1k.
  
 and so fourth...
  
  
 Anyway, I get that they are all different and for different reasons, it was felt like a reminiscent read from when the 'F's showed up.
  
 It sounds like the Abyss would be a better compliment to HD800 (fewer similarities) than the HE1k, or am I out to lunch?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

You need to keep in mind the many changes you have made to your system that brought you to this point. 

For example, the AB-1266 was tuned with it's included cable set. You're using an aftermarket headphone cable which if I recall was mentioned, among other things, to increase bass response. Ultimately changing the headphone cable will bring about a whole new set of tradeoff's.

Tube amplification is wonderful, however within the context of bass tubes impart a sonic signature of their own.

You're also listening to a brand new DAC that for all practical purposes has yet to completely break-in. As you know from experience this takes time. And on this topic IMO you've made so many changes so quickly that even the most experienced would trip on themselves. Your road has been a very cool one to travel along with though...

What I'm ultimately suggesting is not to shoot the messenger. The AB-1266 is very capable of showing you the bass definition the recording and playback system has to offer without imposing it's own limits to such--if it's off blame needs to be placed accordingly.




isquirrel said:


> Make no mistake the HE-1000 can produce heavy bass, but it is more tuneful like a well integrated 3-4 driver loudspeaker. I now feel that the Abyss bass is to much of a party trick and this has ultimately become unsatisfying over the long term.


----------



## yates7592

I feel bass on Abyss is pretty much perfect. It gives me by far the best resemblance to speaker-like bass I have ever heard in a pair of headphones. HD800 bass whilst deep, lacks weight and real-life punch. LCD-3 is bloated and muddy. I haven't heard HE1k but from your reviews I get the impression the bass would be quite similar to HD800?


----------



## isquirrel

joe skubinski said:


> You need to keep in mind the many changes you have made to your system that brought you to this point.
> 
> For example, the AB-1266 was tuned with it's included cable set. You're using an aftermarket headphone cable which if I recall was mentioned, among other things, to increase bass response. Ultimately changing the headphone cable will bring about a whole new set of tradeoff's.
> 
> ...


 

 True my system has evolved but its been at a steady pace and everything except the HE-1000 and the DAC are well run in with over a 1,000 hours on them all. I am not saying that its the world's most neutral system, its not, I like tubes and have spent a considerable amount of time getting those right. I strive for system synergy and every step has taken the system further to the goal I had in mind. I do not like Solid State, I have to use SS for my 2 channel system because tubes simply cannot produce the sort of current required. My power amps produce 1,000,000 microFarad capacitance and run in pure Class A. However they are warm/neutral in character. Fortunately headphones do not require that sort of current driving ability. so I am able to run SET's. 
  
 I am not shooting down Abyss, I am raising questions, no product stays on top of the heap forever and neither should it. You guys, the designers are always pushing the envelope and we as consumers benefit. Surely Audeze are working on a high end planar at the moment. Technology never stands still and that's exciting.
  
 What I tried to do is to remove as much of the system from the equation. I don't expect many people run the same sort of system as me, but there are some heavy hitters on this forum with some big systems, they like me push their equipment to its limits. I ws not trying to give a mid-fi approach to my impressions, look else where for that. But you have positioned the Abyss as the best headphone in the world and so you have to expect people are going use it as a reference point.
  
 What I am saying and I hear this a lot is that the Abyss's design detracts by a lesser or greater degree the enjoyment of listening depending on the listeners tolerance, that's the takeaway. We all welcome new people into this hobby of ours and I have the opportunity to demonstrate to my customers most of whom have never heard a decent headphone, that it sounds wonderful and is something they should consider. I am talking about the wealthy Audiophiles who invest heavily into their 2 channel system's - clearly you target this audience as well given your adverts in The Absolute Sound & the other Audiophile magazines. The feedback I get - every-time - from customers & friends is that the Abyss is uncomfortable and that they feel awkward wearing it. Fix those objections and you will be a lot closer to your desired result.
  
 The HE-1000 comes very close in some areas and in others exceeds the Abyss performance - this is a good thing for the market. Shows it can be done, the next 12 months will be fascinating to watch new high end headphones hit the market.
  
 One more thing, yes the stock viable was replaced, however I don't believe the DHC cable resultant in more bass quantity it did result (IMHO) to a better quality of bass. Certainly improved the mid range/upper mids and transparency.


----------



## isquirrel

yates7592 said:


> I feel bass on Abyss is pretty much perfect. It gives me by far the best resemblance to speaker-like bass I have ever heard in a pair of headphones. HD800 bass whilst deep, lacks weight and real-life punch. LCD-3 is bloated and muddy. I haven't heard HE1k but from your reviews I get the impression the bass would be quite similar to HD800?


 

 Sorry can't help you, I have not spent enough time with a HD-800 to be able to comment. There is nothing speaker like about the Abyss or HEK's or any other headphones bass. Nothing produces bass like a big speaker, it is a physical sensation that headphone can never replicate. I think we need to stop trying to compare headphones to speakers, maybe its okay its they are mini monitors but larger floor standing speakers nope - the only similarity is that they both produce sound.


----------



## yates7592

Yes I totally agree, nothing produces bass like real speakers. But Abyss is by far the closest I've got to that experience with cans.


----------



## isquirrel

yates7592 said:


> Yes I totally agree, nothing produces bass like real speakers. But Abyss is by far the closest I've got to that experience with cans.


 
  


yates7592 said:


> Yes I totally agree, nothing produces bass like real speakers. But Abyss is by far the closest I've got to that experience with cans.


 
 Maybe that's true but bass in not everything wonder why (myself included) we find bass performance so appealing, I have noticed females don't place the same importance on it, neither do musicians.


----------



## yates7592

I see your point. I don't know for sure but I mainly listen to what you might loosely term "rock", also reggae and jazz where bass is a very important part of the mix (ex-wife hates it, which reinforces your gender-bass theory). I also attend a large number of live concerts of such music and record the concerts myself with very decent mics, pre's and recorder. So listening back I am always striving to reproduce that "live" experience and for me, in cans, Abyss does that. I am not a bass head by the way, just like to hear it as it should be, not bloated like LCD3.


----------



## Beolab

So maybe its time to sell our beloved Abyss in fame for the new Ultra High End headphone-wave that is coming soon  

Wonder what sort of headphones everyone going to speak about in ten years time from now, and what type of driver material / standard they will be using? The driver maybe will be made of the new ultra strong and flexible nano material Grafen, and will cost 12.000$++ if i may speculate freely , but i think the Abyss will always be a headphone people will speak about like the Orpheus, and become a classic milestone beacause of its uniqueness in many years from now, and have a collecting value. The HD800 , LCD-3 and He1k will just be some headphones in the line i can assure you.

Abyss is a dam good overall headphone, but its like the sun, it has some spots and scratches here and there, no one is perfect...


----------



## Kiats

isquirrel said:


> If you are going to buy a HE-100 do it you won't get it, same for the Abyss - if I had to choose one headphone it would be the Abyss because there is nothing like it, the HE-1000 is NOT an Abyss killer, its different. The best solution is to have both. They co-exist in a system well together.




Absolutely agree with you there! Its like how the Stax 007Mk1 and 009 coexist quite harmoniously.


----------



## isquirrel

beolab said:


> So maybe its time to sell our beloved Abyss in fame for the new Ultra High End headphone-wave that is coming soon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Agreed, I have no intention of selling my Abyss. Yes it is exciting to think that we are in the relative infancy of the headphone industry and the next decade will be fascinating.


----------



## isquirrel

BTW Sorry some photos had to be removed, I was requested to remove them by the manufacturers.


----------



## Fririce0003

isquirrel said:


> BTW Sorry some photos had to be removed, I was requested to remove them by the manufacturers.


 
  
   It's a bit of a shame when manufactures request photos to be taken down, it's always interesting seeing their implementations on equipment and what lengths they've gone through to mitigate problems and improve the sound. In fact, when I see a nicely engineered and designed piece of equipment it makes me want to go out and buy it just from seeing the care, thought and precision thats gone into making it.
  
   Also I look forward to loaning your HE-1000 next week Simon, should be good to have a good audition at home with them after hearing your thoughts. Hope you don't mind going without them for a couple of weeks  Time will tell if they best the Abyss for me. I've got a fair bit to think about now though, after hearing the Kalliope and borrowing your DaVinci while you burn the Gryphon in it's highlighted how far behind, understandably so, the Vega was. With the DaVinci in place it's like a whole new system, I think the upgrades may actually surpass the upgrade from the WA5 to the 234's! Goes to show how important the source is.
   The next few months will have some tough decisions, a new DaVinci, a new Kallipoe, some HEK..... or a new house. If only audio weren't so financially taxing


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> ...   The next few months will have some tough decisions, a new DaVinci, a new Kallipoe, some HEK..... or a new house. If only audio weren't so financially taxing


 
  
 The fine line between hobby and obsession is knowing when to stop 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I had to stop at the Vega or I would not have been able to buy the home I am now sitting in.
  
 I would love to upgrade to something like the Kalliope, but that is 2 (or more) years away for me.


----------



## Fririce0003

tonynewman said:


> The fine line between hobby and obsession is knowing when to stop
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
   Hahaha, a wise man indeed! I've got to learn that limit in my overzealous youth. I thought spending would slow down after moving out of home and buying my own house... I was wrong, so wrong, things have only ramped up! Audio is more addictive than hard drugs and far harder to stop!
  
   Though you can take solace in the fact digital is finally at a level where it's equal to and in many respects beats vinyl and the implementations of chips and R2R are just going to get better. Plus as time goes by support for digital is just going to sky rocket, MQA, and vinyl production and support is just going to drop to near non existance. Just my two cents.


----------



## TonyNewman

fririce0003 said:


> ....  Though you can take solace in the fact digital is finally at a level where it's equal to and in many respects beats vinyl and the implementations of chips and R2R are just going to get better. Plus as time goes by support for digital is just going to sky rocket, MQA, and vinyl production and support is just going to drop to near non existance. Just my two cents.


 
  
 That's what I am hoping. I have avoided vinyl - both for budgetary reasons and because I see it as a dead technology as digital gets better and better. In 2 years time I am hoping that there will be some awesome DACs available in my price range.
  
 (Just my 2 cents folks - vinyl junkies please put down the torches and pitchforks).
  

  
 Apologies for going OT. Returning to all things Abyss...


----------



## xp9433

> Originally Posted by *isquirrel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The HE-1000 comes very close in some areas and in others exceeds the Abyss performance - this is a good thing for the market. Shows it can be done, the next 12 months will be fascinating to watch new high end headphones hit the market.


 
 isquirrel
  
 Your excellent review should have pride of place in the "Official HIFIMAN HE1000 Impressions Thread", where it is possibly even more relevant. Are you posting it there?
  
 Cheers
 Frank


----------



## up late

agree with isquirrel that the abyss is a cumbersome can to wear. looking forward to giving the he1000 an audition and hopefully comparing them directly.


----------



## MacedonianHero

isquirrel said:


> *The system used:*
> 
> Source: (information and photos removed at the manufacturers request)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great write up! Thanks for this!


----------



## Beolab

isquirrel said:


> BTW Sorry some photos had to be removed, I was requested to remove them by the manufacturers.


 
  
 Was it Joe who demanded you to remove the photo where the Abyss was laying on the floor like a conquered gladiator ?? =)


----------



## Yoga

Might have to nab the HE1K for an audition.


----------



## isquirrel

yoga said:


> Might have to nab the HE1K for an audition.


 

 Suggest you try and get one for a week maybe on approval, it took me a little time to get a handle on it. Maybe that's just age 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I find that I need a week living with a product to be able to form a rounded opinion. If you spend a fair bit of time in front a computer then its almost a must have addition my ability to work on the computer has suddenly become much easier.


----------



## preproman

yoga said:


> Might have to nab the HE1K for an audition.


 

 They have their benefits, most defiantly.


----------



## yates7592

isquirrel said:


> If you spend a fair bit of time in front a computer then its almost a must have addition my ability to work on the computer has suddenly become much easier.




I can never understand how anyone can work efficiently with headphones on (even Abyss!), this coming from someone who seemingly lives for music. Must be just me, everyone seems to do it! :basshead:


----------



## isquirrel

Easy just relax enjoy the music and get your work done at the same time a win, win situation. If I want to listen seriously then its on the couch with the wife with the 2 channel system,


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Easy just relax enjoy the music and get your work done at the same time a win, win situation. If I want to listen seriously then its on the couch with the wife with the 2 channel system,


 
  
 +1. I work in a very cramped environment. Open plan office - I have about 8 other people I can reach out touch from my desk. The noise can get pretty bad with multiple conversations happening all around me. Running the ALO PanAm + Shure 1540s at my desk is a lifesaver. I can block out the noise around me and focus on my work - sometimes I even manage to appreciate the music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (For those that haven't tried it, the PanAm + 1540 is a killer combo for the workplace).


----------



## isquirrel

Looking for a portable solution ATM, was thinking of the AK 240 or 380 + the ALO Continental which has tubes and you can even tube roll (yes!)


----------



## isquirrel

You must all check out the photos of this Audiophiles system, incredible, I just used them to show my wife that our new 2 channel system really isn't that big....
  
  
 http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/high-end-audio-system-photos-rockport-gryphon-7-turntables-hard-to-believe.280280/
  
 Enjoy


----------



## wink

Quote:TonyNewman 





> The noise can get pretty bad with multiple conversations happening all around me.


 
 The Sennheiser HD280 Pro has over 30dB isolation, and doesn't need batteries......


----------



## TonyNewman

isquirrel said:


> Looking for a portable solution ATM, was thinking of the AK 240 or 380 + the ALO Continental which has tubes and you can even tube roll (yes!)


 
  
 The new Continental with the 6111 tubes is already getting some good feedback - but it isn't cheap (around $1,500 USD).
  
LINK
  
 PanAm is now discontinued and it isn't really portable - more a transportable desktop unit - but it sounds wonderful with Telefunken EF95 tubes.
  
 I also have an International+ and I like that unit very much also. It's SS, so no tube goodness, but still an excellent sound - and it is a fully portable unit.


----------



## TonyNewman

wink said:


> The Sennheiser HD280 Pro has over 30dB isolation, and doesn't need batteries......


 
  
 The Shure 1540s are doing all that I need in terms of isolation (incoming and outgoing) and also have an excellent SQ that I like. I bought these mostly because I got a special deal and because they made the InnerFidelity Wall of Fame - no regrets at all - one of my "less dumb" audio buying decisions


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> You must all check out the photos of this Audiophiles system, incredible, I just used them to show my wife that our new 2 channel system really isn't that big....
> 
> 
> http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/high-end-audio-system-photos-rockport-gryphon-7-turntables-hard-to-believe.280280/
> ...


 

 Holy...


----------



## up late

well the opportunity to compare the abyss and he-1000 came sooner than expected and i got to do it today for a couple of hours. i'd need to spend more time with both to know which sound signature i prefer but that might indicate how little separates them sound wise. comfort wise the he-1000 easily bested the abyss for me. it was surprisingly light and comfortable - more comfortable for me than the hd800. gotta say that the hd800 is a high-end bargain - if that makes sense.


----------



## TonyNewman

up late said:


> ... gotta say that the hd800 is a high-end bargain - if that makes sense.


 
  
 +1. Modded, and paired with a powerful amp that it likes, the HD800 is one heck of a headphone.


----------



## Yoga

up late said:


> well the opportunity to compare the abyss and he-1000 came sooner than expected and i got to do it today for a couple of hours. i'd need to spend more time with both to know which sound signature i prefer but that might indicate how little separates them sound wise. comfort wise the he-1000 easily bested the abyss for me. it was surprisingly light and comfortable - more comfortable for me than the hd800. gotta say that the hd800 is a high-end bargain - if that makes sense.


 

 Look forward to more impressions.


----------



## up late

tonynewman said:


> +1. Modded, and paired with a powerful amp that it likes, the HD800 is one heck of a headphone.




yeah that treble peak needs taming at times but as newer and far more expensive cans come to market, my admiration for the hd800 grows.


----------



## TonyNewman

up late said:


> yeah that treble peak needs taming at times but as newer and far more expensive cans come to market, my admiration for the hd800 grows.


 
  
 +1.
  
 I wasn't a great fan until I modded mine, then hooked it up to some powerful amps (WA5 and 430HA) - both are warm and musical (but different) amps that pair really well with this headphone and make it sing. I think the HD800 needs a powerful amp to do its best work - perhaps not HE6 crazy powerful, but it needs some serious push to shine.


----------



## oneguy

up late said:


> well the opportunity to compare the abyss and he-1000 came sooner than expected and i got to do it today for a couple of hours. i'd need to spend more time with both to know which sound signature i prefer but that might indicate how little separates them sound wise. comfort wise the he-1000 easily bested the abyss for me. it was surprisingly light and comfortable - more comfortable for me than the hd800. gotta say that the hd800 is a high-end bargain - if that makes sense.


 

 I own the HD800 and got a chance to demo the HE1000 and the Abyss as well. I found the sound signatures quite different. The Abyss had to much impact or "boom" for my tastes. I did think it was very interesting how you could vastly vary the low end signature of the headphones based off of their orientation. I also listened to the SR-009 on a Blue Hawaii. I preferred the HE1000 through a Vioelectric V281 over the SR-009.


----------



## alpha80

yates7592 said:


> I feel bass on Abyss is pretty much perfect. It gives me by far the best resemblance to speaker-like bass I have ever heard in a pair of headphones. HD800 bass whilst deep, lacks weight and real-life punch. LCD-3 is bloated and muddy. I haven't heard HE1k but from your reviews I get the impression the bass would be quite similar to HD800?


 

 I havent tried the Abyss yet.  Have you tried the K812 pro on the same tracks ?  How would you compare the Bass, mids and highs, and soundstage of the Abyss, to the K812 ?


----------



## oneguy

A quick synopsis of listening session with the HD800, Abyss, HE1000, LCD-2, LCD-3 and Ether:
  
 http://lhlabs.com/force/general/4364-demoed-he-1000-at-hifi-trader-in-sydney#68030


----------



## Yoga

oneguy said:


> I own the HD800 and got a chance to demo the HE1000 and the Abyss as well. I found the sound signatures quite different. The Abyss had to much impact or "boom" for my tastes. I did think it was very interesting how you could vastly vary the low end signature of the headphones based off of their orientation. I also listened to the SR-009 on a Blue Hawaii. I preferred the HE1000 through a Vioelectric V281 over the SR-009.


 

 There is no boom to Abyss bass once you set them up properly. It's precise, deep and simply sublime :¬)


----------



## Wildcatsare1

oneguy said:


> A quick synopsis of listening session with the HD800, Abyss, HE1000, LCD-2, LCD-3 and Ether:
> 
> http://lhlabs.com/force/general/4364-demoed-he-1000-at-hifi-trader-in-sydney#68030




Wonderful write up! Mirrors my feeling about the Ethers exactly. They are just ok, nothing special. Whilst I haven't heard the Abyss, the HEK is the best headphone I have heard to date.


----------



## yates7592

yoga said:


> There is no boom to Abyss bass once you set them up properly. It's precise, deep and simply sublime :¬)




+1 

If I was listening to classical all the time I would probably go with SR-009, HD800, HE1K et al. But for any genre with meaningful bass, e.g. reggae, EDM, "rock", I'm not looking to exaggerate the bass, just reproduce it as close to speakers as possible with cans. And Abyss is the best.


----------



## up late

oneguy said:


> I own the HD800 and got a chance to demo the HE1000 and the Abyss as well. I found the sound signatures quite different. The Abyss had to much impact or "boom" for my tastes. I did think it was very interesting how you could vastly vary the low end signature of the headphones based off of their orientation. I also listened to the SR-009 on a Blue Hawaii. I preferred the HE1000 through a Vioelectric V281 over the SR-009.




wasn't suggesting that they sound the same - was referring to the level of performance. didn't find the abyss too impactful or visceral if that's what you mean, but i'm coming from the th900. forgot to mention that the abyss was more power hungry than the he-1000.


----------



## mulder01

Looks like as the US dollar gets stronger and stronger, the Australian Abyss price goes up and up.  It's now up to $7659 over here...  Lucky I already got a pair


----------



## fire2368

Just got my Moon Audio Silver Dragon adapter for the Pass Labs INT-30a.
  
 I've got to say, these are the cleanest amp I've heard, everything sounds crystal clear. The sound stage goes much wider than I've experienced with the Abyss and the highs just sparkle. Loving it so far!
  
 Just discovered a new sound with the Abyss.
  
 Thanks @preproman PS. My volume is quite high at 25-30 not sure if that's you have them at.


----------



## Beolab

fire2368 said:


> Just got my Moon Audio Silver Dragon adapter for the Pass Labs INT-30a.
> 
> I've got to say, these are the cleanest amp I've heard, everything sounds crystal clear. The sound stage goes much wider than I've experienced with the Abyss and the highs just sparkle. Loving it so far!
> 
> ...




25 out of 100 steps or? 
Does it have more stable temperature now after you installed the Moon Audio Adapter, or have you noticed any difference?


----------



## fire2368

beolab said:


> 25 out of 100 steps or?
> Does it have more stable temperature now after you installed the Moon Audio Adapter, or have you noticed any difference?


 

 25 out of 63. I don't know how pass labs do their volume, its weird. My speakers were running at 31-32. Must be a fair bit of power going into the Abyss.
  
 I haven't noticed any changed in temperature, I was running my speakers off them earlier and it seems similar.


----------



## preproman

> My volume is quite high at 25-30 not sure if that's you have them at.


 
  
 Yeah I'm around that area as well.  It's not high at all, that amp is not even breaking a sweat..  It's effortless.


----------



## Yoga

Really want to audition the INT30 with the Abyss!


----------



## Beolab

Int30 delivers 6 watt @ 46 Ohm so its not overpowered for the Abyss so i don't think its any problem to play loader if you want to @fire2368


----------



## fire2368

yoga said:


> Really want to audition the INT30 with the Abyss!


 
 I highly recommend it! After a few hours, I found the bass to be super punchy, less impact than the ragnarok, so it's easier to listen to for longer. The vocals is where I found the biggest jump in SQ, its really clean and pops out of the rest of the song, I think it might be due to the noise floor being lower than what I've heard previously.


----------



## Yoga

fire2368 said:


> I highly recommend it! After a few hours, I found the bass to be super punchy, less impact than the ragnarok, so it's easier to listen to for longer. The vocals is where I found the biggest jump in SQ, its really clean and pops out of the rest of the song, I think it might be due to the noise floor being lower than what I've heard previously.


 

 Nice! Vocals were sharp and dry with the Rag + Hugo when I auditioned them together.
  
 The 430HA has a pitch black background. Literally - non existent noise floor :¬)


----------



## mlxx

mulder01 said:


> Looks like as the US dollar gets stronger and stronger, the Australian Abyss price goes up and up.  It's now up to $7659 over here...  Lucky I already got a pair


 
  
 Do yourself a favour and have a listen to the HE1000, you might like it better.
 It could be the perfect time to offload the Abyss and even make a profit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Beolab

yoga said:


> Nice! Vocals were sharp and dry with the Rag + Hugo when I auditioned them together.
> 
> The 430HA has a pitch black background. Literally - non existent noise floor :¬)




Pitched black up to volume 70, but at 71 up to 780 it gives you a high pitched noise and distortion.


----------



## isquirrel

mulder01 said:


> Looks like as the US dollar gets stronger and stronger, the Australian Abyss price goes up and up.  It's now up to $7659 over here...  Lucky I already got a pair


 

 Its out of control ATM, ordered some speakers and they have gone up by $5,000 due to the dollar, rest of the system has got hammered by the strength of the Euro as well. Lucky we bought our Abyss when we did, I can see our dollar sinking to as low as .65 cents, I expect to see all gear going up substantially over the next 3 months.
  
 Don't think I am going to sell my Abyss though. The +HEK's are over 200 hours now and sounding really good, bass has really improved with the hours on them.


----------



## isquirrel

beolab said:


> Pitched black up to volume 60, but at 61 up to 70 it gives you a high pitched noise and distortion.


 
  


yoga said:


> Nice! Vocals were sharp and dry with the Rag + Hugo when I auditioned them together.
> 
> The 430HA has a pitch black background. Literally - non existent noise floor :¬)


 

 Keen to hear the 430HA but there's been none for demo.


----------



## mulder01

mlxx said:


> Do yourself a favour and have a listen to the HE1000, you might like it better.
> It could be the perfect time to offload the Abyss and even make a profit
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll definitely give the Hifiman a listen, but I'm not sure I could give up the Abyss bass - I'm a bit of a bass lover and if it's a bit light-on with the hifiman (which is what I'm led to believe), I can't imagine preferring it.  It would have to do exceedingly well in every other aspect to win me over with that shortfall.  Only one way to find out though - should be able to hear it in a few months...
  
  


isquirrel said:


> Keen to hear the 430HA but there's been none for demo.


 
  
 Didn't you order one months ago?


----------



## Yoga

beolab said:


> Pitched black up to volume 60, but at 61 up to 70 it gives you a high pitched noise and distortion.


 

 Pitch black up until 70 for me (max 80), which is (far) beyond even the loudest of sane listening levels, even with the Abyss (I rarely hit 65).


----------



## Beolab

yoga said:


> Pitch black up until 70 for me (max 80), which is (far) beyond even the loudest of sane listening levels, even with the Abyss (I rarely hit 65).




Sorry menat from 70-80 a high pitched noise occurs , but at 69-70 its fine to listening to, but at 71 the amp do not want to play any more...


----------



## Yoga

beolab said:


> Sorry menat from 70-80 a high pitched noise occurs , but at 69-70 its fine to listening to, but at 71 the amp do not want to play any more...


 

 You hit 65+ at listening levels on the 430? Your poor ears :¬)


----------



## Beolab

yoga said:


> You hit 65+ at listening levels on the 430? Your poor ears :¬)




I don't, i just tested it out, how the amp behaved, and it did show a weakness. 
For example the Pathos Aurium didn't show any weaknesses , it where pitch black from volume 0-100, but had just 1.1 watt of power @ 46 Ohm so i lend it back.


----------



## Yoga

beolab said:


> I don't, i just tested it out, how the amp behaved, and it did show a weakness.
> For example the Pathos Aurium didn't show any weaknesses , it where pitch black from volume 0-100, but had just 1.1 watt of power @ 46 Ohm so i lend it back.


 

 Different power ratings make for an invalid 'weakness' comparison, e.g. if the Aurium was able to match the dB level of the 430 @ 70+ there could also be noise.
  
 Comparing the PA at 100% with the Abyss at 70/80 is apples to oranges in terms of dB.


----------



## Beolab

yoga said:


> Different power ratings make for an invalid 'weakness' comparison, e.g. if the Aurium was able to match the dB level of the 430 @ 70+ there could also be noise.
> 
> Comparing the PA at 100% with the Abyss at 70/80 is apples to oranges in terms of dB.




Absolutely, but it could also be the volume potentiometer that is of a cheeper version than Pathos are using.


----------



## isquirrel

mulder01 said:


> Didn't you order one months ago?


 
 Was going to but A2A were going to get them in, I think that's changed. It on my 'must listen to' list. Do you have one?


----------



## mulder01

isquirrel said:


> Was going to but A2A were going to get them in, I think that's changed. It on my 'must listen to' list. Do you have one?


 
  
 No I was waiting to hear yours


----------



## fire2368

Just spent the last few hours A/Bing between the Ragnarok and the Pass Labs INT-30a.
  
 I gotta give it to the Ragnarok, its a great value for money amp at this level, it does well to keep up to the Pass Labs. The pass has a blacker background (seems like there is nothing behind the sound) and clearer highs, but the Rags bass, I prefer more. The Pass' bass is punchy and really tight, where as the Ragnarok is more laid back and works well with more modern music (better rumble, less tight). The mids of the Ragnarok is inferior to the Pass. It doesn't show the same clarity and seems rounded off and not as natural.


----------



## preproman

Funny how we like to have our bass severed up to us different. "In general"  I like my steak "medium" you like your steak "well done" sort of thing.
  
 BTW - I like my bass tight and right.   
  
 It's also good the Abyss is able to accurately portray the difference in the two.  Kudos to the Abyss.
  
 Glad you're enjoying your rig.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Hey Guys, considering some DH cables for Abyss, any feedback on the audible differences between the Completemen4 and Spore4?


----------



## isquirrel

Difference is Spore 4 has more thorough shielding.  It’s a custom lightweight metal braided shield + a custom foil together it lowers the noise floor even more so that it’s easier to hear every detail on a blacker background, Complement 4 does not use metal insulation at its base, its outer insulation is a plastic that functions similar to carbon fibre. DHC used to use carbon fibre for the original spore, but it is more efficient and effective to directly insulate it on as a polymer apparently.
  
  
 I ordered the Silver Spore 4 with a single sleeve instead of the double sleeve. Connectors for the HEK & Abyss are cool, can't tell its an adapter unless you pull it apart. I think people will really like these, besides having the shortest signal path possible with no wire, they are indistinguishable from a furutech mini XLR like just the plug with nothing else. Got DHC to send me these photos


----------



## matthewhypolite

Are those adaptors a universal termination for multiple headphones? So you can hook them up to your abyss, or your Audeze or he1000 etc?


----------



## Fririce0003

matthewhypolite said:


> Are those adaptors a universal termination for multiple headphones? So you can hook them up to your abyss, or your Audeze or he1000 etc?




You'd need separate adapters for the abyss and the audeze since they have different pin allocations, plus the abyss is 3 pin the audeze are 4 pin mini xlr. But it does give you the ability to use the same cables with multiple headphones.


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> You'd need seperate ones for the abyss and the wider since they have different pin allocations, plus the abyss is 3 pin the audeze are 4 pin mini xlr. But it does give you the ability to use the same cables with multiple headphones.


 

 I think Matt is trying to say you need connecters for different types of headphones. DHC makes adapters so gets around the problem of having to buy completely new cables for every type of headphone you have. These are easy to click into place and I have no issues with them. Its nice to know that my investment in the cables is never lost. Common sense is you get the cables made up for your main headphones and adapters for the rest.


----------



## Fririce0003

Just received the HE1000 off isquirrel for a trial. Very Different from the Abyss in terms of tonality, fit and presentation. I must say I'm really liking it so far, it will take a while to get used to since they are so different so I'll save any in depth comments for a week or so. But initial impressions are that they extend deeper, are more transparent and texture incredibly well. Comfort is also a big plus, I didn't realise how much I had adapted and compromised in terms of listening position for the Abyss. The Abyss does have the HE1000 beat so far in overall impact and it also seems slightly more dynamic, that may be due to the HEK being more on the neutral side or due to the cable though, I'm currently using the stock cable which isn't much to write home about.
  
   Though one thing that did stand out to me was the bass, the Abyss bass really hits you, but does so on almost all tracks. While the HEK has a seemingly more natural bass response, it's kind of like speakers producing the bass for the HEK vs a sub producing the bass for the Abyss. There's going to be tracks which suit each one more and people who simply prefer one over the other.
  
   I look forward to how all the other companies are going to respond to the newest additions to the TOTL headphone lineup. After all progress breeds more progress, which is never a bad thing in my books as everyone strives to reclaim the crown in their own ways. Which all inevitably brings trickle down tech to the rest of their products, so everyone benefits. Though I will end in saying I will still certainly be keeping my Abyss, there are still a decent amount of tracks that go hand in hand with that added bass kick and sometimes the mood simply calls for it 
  
 For now I'll continue evaluating the HEK. For reference my system is very similar to isquirrels; Shunyata Triton/Typhon with Alpha HC cables, Antipodes Server, DaVinci DAC (on loan from isquirrel since he's got the Kalliope to burn in) and WA234 amps with Takatsuki 300B's and 274B's.


----------



## Yoga

Abyss and HE1K sound like a great complimentary pairing.


----------



## wink

Quote:Yoga 





> Abyss and HE1K sound like a great* wallet killer  *


 
 FTFY.....


----------



## matthewhypolite

isquirrel said:


> I think Matt is trying to say you need connecters for different types of headphones. DHC makes adapters so gets around the problem of having to buy completely new cables for every type of headphone you have. These are easy to click into place and I have no issues with them. Its nice to know that my investment in the cables is never lost. Common sense is you get the cables made up for your main headphones and adapters for the rest.


 
 Hmmm...great stuff. So I can get the Spore4 Fusion for my Abyss made up, then Abyss->Audeze adaptor, etc ?

 Do you have a link to the adaptors?​
 And are the adaptors using the same materials as the Spore 4?



 Thanks,


----------



## isquirrel

Don't have a link, but if you go the Spore 4 ordering page, you add & specify the adapters you need there. What I have above is Spore 4 Fusion, a combo of silver and copper. 
  
  
 The adapters are the same cables.


----------



## Yoga

Which XLR connectors did you opt for for the Abyss @isquirrel ?


----------



## isquirrel

Here's a photo, the Xhadow ones, these are the pure Silver cables, have been waiting on these for some time. Will arrive early next week got the IC's also.


----------



## negura

matthewhypolite said:


> Hmmm...great stuff. So I can get the Spore4 Fusion for my Abyss made up, then Abyss->Audeze adaptor, etc ?
> 
> Do you have a link to the adaptors?​
> And are the adaptors using the same materials as the Spore 4?
> ...


 
  
 Aren't additional soldering points and connectors a bit of a boo-boo unless it's a cheap cable?


----------



## isquirrel

negura said:


> Aren't additional soldering points and connectors a bit of a boo-boo unless it's a cheap cable?


 

 Not really, in my experience the impact on SQ is marginal at best. Certainly way better than the alternative, having to buy a set of expensive cables for every HP I have or that is likely to come along. On the contrary I think its great that my cables can be used with pretty much any HP's out here if I have the adapters for them. I think you would have more of an issue if you were using cheap cables. In terms of the ultimate SQ then obviously the less connections you have the better, but in the real world most systems have far more serious limitations than a connector made from the same material as is a very short length with high quality connectors.
  
 In fact I doubt it would be audible.


----------



## mulder01

You both have points.  In theory I'm sure the difference is said to be inaudible, but if your system is at a level where you say that changing brands of fuses or even changing the direction of fuses on the incoming AC line makes an audible difference, then certainly a join in your headphone cable would be _more_ audible than that, even if the difference is very very small.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

JPS Labs created a new customizable cable for the AB-1266

*The Superconductor HP*

http://abyssheadphones.com/jps_labs_abyss_cables.html


----------



## matthewhypolite

joe skubinski said:


> JPS Labs created a new customizable cable for the AB-1266
> 
> *The Superconductor HP*
> 
> http://abyssheadphones.com/jps_labs_abyss_cables.html


 
 oooouuuuuuu......
  
 Where can we buy?
  
 Any thoughts on how they compare to stock?


----------



## isquirrel

joe skubinski said:


> JPS Labs created a new customizable cable for the AB-1266
> 
> *The Superconductor HP*
> 
> http://abyssheadphones.com/jps_labs_abyss_cables.html


 
 Excellent, Joe, any details you can share?


----------



## yates7592

Looks awesome. What type of wire? Price......?


----------



## snormal

Isn't the superconducter is one grade below the aluminata which comes with the abyss? Pls correct me if I was wrong..


----------



## yates7592

I'm pretty sure the stock cable is not Aluminata.


----------



## fire2368

snormal said:


> Isn't the superconducter is one grade below the aluminata which comes with the abyss? Pls correct me if I was wrong..


 

 The stock cable isn't aluminata, it says alumiloy. I read somewhere it's on par with the superconductor V.
  
 Found it: Joe posted this earlier in this thread.
  


joe skubinski said:


> We created and refined our own conductor material long ago. Information on JPS cables can be found on our website, http://www.jpslabs.com.
> 
> Our Superconductor V series is similar to the Abyss headphone cables.


 
  
 I'm curious as to what the differences between this and stock might be. I'm looking for new cables and the DHC cables are looking good, been speaking to Trevor at Norne and he's doing some end game stuff too (although its coming soon), 4 x 21AWG I think in silver.


----------



## snormal

Right alumiloy...my bad. Tks for righting my wrong!


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Superconductor HP is soft, flexible, and.. Quiet.

Conductors are about a 15 AWG stranded, big cable for a big headphone-- held added weight to a comfortable level.


----------



## Beolab

joe skubinski said:


> Superconductor HP is soft, flexible, and.. Quiet.
> 
> Conductors are about a 15 AWG stranded, big cable for a big headphone-- held added weight to a comfortable level.


 

 What are the sound advantages you get with this cable against the stock Abyss cable ?
  
 What is your impressions?


----------



## fire2368

Question on maintenance: do you guys moisturize the leather pads? Mines getting off colored and looks like it needs a moisturizing, but I don't want leather moisturizer rubbing off on my face later on (even after its dried off). What do you guys do?


----------



## Beolab

fire2368 said:


> Question on maintenance: do you guys moisturize the leather pads? Mines getting off colored and looks like it needs a moisturizing, but I don't want leather moisturizer rubbing off on my face later on (even after its dried off). What do you guys do?





Buy some moisturiazing for fine leather from Bmw or Mercedes and rubb it in with a microfibre blanket and then wait 1-2 minutes, and then take a fresh microfibre cloth and wipe the rest of = Like new.


----------



## HighNFidelity

joe skubinski said:


> JPS Labs created a new customizable cable for the AB-1266
> 
> *The Superconductor HP*
> 
> http://abyssheadphones.com/jps_labs_abyss_cables.html


Is this link currently under construction?


----------



## mulder01

beolab said:


> What is your impressions?


 
 I think his impressions are "They are bloody brilliant and you should all buy a set"


----------



## isquirrel

mulder01 said:


> I think his impressions are "They are bloody brilliant and you should all buy a set"




Lol, absolutely, now who's going be brave?


----------



## mulder01

Hmm, 4 grand a pair... Won't be me...


----------



## Sorrodje

mulder01 said:


> Hmm, 4 grand a pair... Won't be me...


 
  
 4 grand for what ??


----------



## fire2368

mulder01 said:


> Hmm, 4 grand a pair... Won't be me...


 

 Where did you get that figure from? I'm out if it's 4 grand.


----------



## mulder01

4 grand aussie
 so like, 500 US 
  
http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/content/searchnew/?usterms=abyss


----------



## snormal

Seems like it's way over the line already. I admit headphone cables do play an important role though.

But how come the superconducter balanced headphone cable is way more expensive than the superconducter balanced xlr?!


----------



## mulder01

Not sure how the USD RRP will compare to the DHC's with all the extra upgrades, but yeah, pretty exxy
  
 I think a few of their products start with the name 'superconductor' so it's probably not what you're thinking


----------



## fire2368

mulder01 said:


> Not sure how the USD RRP will compare to the DHC's with all the extra upgrades, but yeah, pretty exxy
> 
> I think a few of their products start with the name 'superconductor' so it's probably not what you're thinking


 
  
 Just had a chat earlier to Guillaume and Ash (from A2A) and they said it's going to be available for demo next week.
  
 I don't want to get poisoned by a $4k cable, staying away at all costs....


----------



## mulder01

fire2368 said:


> Just had a chat earlier to Guillaume and Ash (from A2A) and they said it's going to be available for demo next week.
> 
> I don't want to get poisoned by a $4k cable, staying away at all costs....


 
  
 You won't even have a listen to it?


----------



## fire2368

mulder01 said:


> You won't even have a listen to it?


 

 Probably not anytime soon. I've got so many things I want to buy I think this $4k cable should be the least of my worries haha.
  
 But of course, if I end up stumbling on a pair and do a demo, I will post my impressions here.


----------



## yates7592

This probably happened at the right time for me in damage-limitation terms. I've just spent big bucks recabling my entire rig in DHC Silver Spore (h/p cable, interconnects, USB cable) so I really don't want to go down the alumiloy road. Will be very interested to hear others impressions though, from a safe distance.


----------



## isquirrel

That's good, I will pop in once their burn't in and have a listen and take my DHC cables with me for comparison.


----------



## snormal

mulder01 said:


> Not sure how the USD RRP will compare to the DHC's with all the extra upgrades, but yeah, pretty exxy
> 
> I think a few of their products start with the name 'superconductor' so it's probably not what you're thinking




The one I mentioned is the price of superconducter 3 which is the top of the line in superconducter series.


----------



## SpherE22

How does the abyss pair with the mha-100 from mcintosh i wonder


----------



## isquirrel

sphere22 said:


> How does the abyss pair with the mha-100 from mcintosh i wonder


 

 Won't drive it to proper levels, tried it many moons ago.


----------



## mulder01

It only has a single ended output and a max power of 1w so it's probably not the best pairing for your money.  
 Which is a shame because it looks really nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 (I should mention I haven't tried it, I'm going by the specs)


----------



## SpherE22

mulder01 said:


> It only has a single ended output and a max power of 1w so it's probably not the best pairing for your money.
> Which is a shame because it looks really nice :tongue_smile:
> 
> (I should mention I haven't tried it, I'm going by the specs)


 Ive heard that the mha-100 is even enough to power a he-6. I don't see how it isnt ok for abyss in terms of power


----------



## negura

Mha-100 can get sound out of the Abyss, sure, but I would personally not use it with these, at any price.


----------



## metalboss

Tried mha before settling with neo430 & aint nothing to talk about... dynamics missing...


----------



## SpherE22

Dang, right when I was sold on the idea of the mha being an all purpose, all endgame amp.... I was going to use it for my hek, hd800, and for my speakers too. What do you guys think is a better all around amp for my phones?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

This is a shot in the dark, but has anyone heard the Abyss on a SuSy Dynahi by chance?


----------



## fire2368

sphere22 said:


> Dang, right when I was sold on the idea of the mha being an all purpose, all endgame amp.... I was going to use it for my hek, hd800, and for my speakers too. What do you guys think is a better all around amp for my phones?


 
  
 Schiit Ragnarok is my all around box. All my other phones and speaker are wired up to it at the moment. My abyss is wired to the INT-30a.


----------



## SpherE22

fire2368 said:


> Schiit Ragnarok is my all around box. All my other phones and speaker are wired up to it at the moment. My abyss is wired to the INT-30a.


 Been searching for the rag for months now. Its extremely hard to get one considering the waiting list and where i live. Is it THAT good as everyone says? My only concern now is that some reviews pointed out that the rag&yggy combo sucks with my HEK. Planning to buy an abyss someday, won't it overwhelm the overall bass presentation? And also, does it pair well with speaker amps like the he-6?


----------



## fire2368

sphere22 said:


> Been searching for the rag for months now. Its extremely hard to get one considering the waiting list and where i live. Is it THAT good as everyone says? My only concern now is that some reviews pointed out that the rag&yggy combo sucks with my HEK. Planning to buy an abyss someday, won't it overwhelm the overall bass presentation? And also, does it pair well with speaker amps like the he-6?


 

 I can't say about the yggy, but the Rag is a really good amp and even better considering its price/performance ratio. I think the bass of the rag is bold and big and it doesn't overpower the abyss at all. If it does, its the abyss just move your cups and tighten the headband; problem solved.


----------



## yates7592

fire2368 said:


> I can't say about the yggy, but the Rag is a really good amp and even better considering its price/performance ratio. I think the bass of the rag is bold and big and it doesn't overpower the abyss at all. If it does, its the abyss *just move your cups and tighten the headband; problem solved.*


 
  
 Yep, I did that exact same thing last night. I leave the cups bent down and in to give a full seal on my ears (don't like to bend that frame too often) and just tighten/loosen the headband in or out according to the music. These cans are so versatile, you can change the sound in any number of ways. Looking down from the top, bending the headband back about the axis of the screw/pivot increases the soundstage width, I also found out by trial last night.


----------



## SpherE22

Thanks for the response guys, i really appreciate it. What i meant about my last question was if i can use something like this http://www.hifiman.com/Products/?pid=104 with an abyss, or any balanced phones for that matter, maybe that will change the situation with the MHA-100?


----------



## negura

sphere22 said:


> Thanks for the response guys, i really appreciate it. What i meant about my last question was if i can use something like this http://www.hifiman.com/Products/?pid=104 with an abyss, or any balanced phones for that matter, maybe that will change the situation with the MHA-100?


 
  
 Yes, it should work.
  
 That said you might be better off connecting directly to speaker taps. But you'll need a female XLR adapter with loose wires at the other end to connect to the speaker taps. The HFM box is yet another thing in the path, which usually isn't a good for SQ, unless it's absolutely needed.


----------



## preproman

sphere22 said:


> Thanks for the response guys, i really appreciate it. What i meant about my last question was if i can use something like this http://www.hifiman.com/Products/?pid=104 with an abyss, or any balanced phones for that matter, maybe that will change the situation with the MHA-100?


 
  
 You can use a cable like this, with (4) spades or bananas on one end and a 4 pin female XLR on the other end.


----------



## yates7592

@ isquirrel:

I read on the HE1K thread you had received your Silver Spore cables. Did you get chance to try them on Abyss yet and any impressions?


----------



## SpherE22

Going a bit off topic but, which is better? Bananas or raw wire?


----------



## fire2368

Bare wire technically is better as its the path of less resistance, but bananas is just more convenient, plug and play and ready to go. I doubt you'll hear a difference. YMMV.


----------



## Yoga

A couple of updates...
  
 1) HEK are being returned. While their treble is better than the Abyss, they lack the dynamic power, punch and soundscape of the Abyss. Although to be fair, *any* other headphone sounds lacking to me now. The speaker-esque presentation is perfect for my tastes.
  
 2) May be ordering the new Eddie Current Studio amp. Craig used the Abyss to develop the amp, and apparently it's stellar. 2A3 based but with top spec premium parts throughout, hence more transparent and dynamic. (Edit: actually, this depends on import duty, could end up paying way over value.)
  
@SpherE22 : I've auditioned the Ragnarok (with Hugo) and preferred the Moon 430 by a _considerable_ margin. It's an incredible machine, and with the onboard dac, it's amazing for both day to day desktop use and extended listening sessions. Musical/coherent while retaining dynamic range and resolution. Quite a few people on this forum own one and have tested many other top SS amps. Powers the Abyss comfortably.


----------



## matthewhypolite

yoga said:


> A couple of updates...
> 
> 1) HEK are being returned. While their treble is better than the Abyss, they lack the dynamic power, punch and soundscape of the Abyss. Although to be fair, *any* other headphones sounds lacking to me now. The speaker-esque presentation is perfect for my tastes.
> 
> ...


 

 Hey, have you ever tried the LAu with the Abyss, i'm seeing a lot of people recommending the Moon for planers, specifically the Abyss. Also read the LAu is a great combo also.​


----------



## Yoga

matthewhypolite said:


> Hey, have you ever tried the LAu with the Abyss, i'm seeing a lot of people recommending the Moon for planers, specifically the Abyss. Also read the LAu is a great combo also.​


 

 Unfortunately not, the LAu was previously at the top of my list. Until I auditioned the 430, of course. Other ears I trust have mentioned that the Moon is more analogue sounding, the LAu more transparent, so it depends on your tastes.
  
 The Abyss is a very transparent headphone, give it a clinical source and it'll sound clinical. Feed it something 'musical' (analogue/coherent) and it will portray that. I prefer the latter :¬)


----------



## fire2368

matthewhypolite said:


> Hey, have you ever tried the LAu with the Abyss, i'm seeing a lot of people recommending the Moon for planers, specifically the Abyss. Also read the LAu is a great combo also.​




For the amount of money the Lau is being sold for, I personally think there are better options out there... my 0.02


----------



## matthewhypolite

Cool,
  
 Well the LAu used to be $6500, now its $4000, I paid $3500 for my dark start, so 4k for the LAu wasn't that bad.
 Preordered my LAu since Feb though, only started hearing rumblings about the moon later on.


----------



## preproman

Those prices you are putting you into really good speaker amp territory.  If the Abyss, HE1K or any planar for that matter a speaker amp at that price should get some looks..  Just to cover all bases..


----------



## Yoga

preproman said:


> Those prices you are putting you into really good speaker amp territory.  If the Abyss, HE1K or any planar for that matter a speaker amp at that price should get some looks..  Just to cover all bases..


 

 I'd home audition the PASS INT-30A in a heartbeat if it was possible in the UK.
  
 I have no ideas about other UK based alternatives. Any ideas? :¬)


----------



## matthewhypolite

I already have an Anthem speaker amp in living room @ those prices.

 Can't listen to my speakers at desired volume all the time though, wife!


 But I can retreat to my man cave much more frequently, headphones FTW


----------



## preproman

yoga said:


> I'd home audition the PASS INT-30A in a heartbeat if it was possible in the UK.
> 
> I have no ideas about other UK based alternatives. Any ideas? :¬)


 

 Reno HiFi does a in home demo.  You have to pay the cost of the amp first thou.


----------



## Yoga

preproman said:


> Reno HiFi does a in home demo.  You have to pay the cost of the amp first thou.


 
  
 A home demo from a company in the US to the UK doesn't make logistical sense (wallet wise!).


----------



## yates7592

To make the point that Abyss is not a one trick pony, ie bass, thump, prat etc. Just listening to Alela Diane's 'The Pirate's Gospel'. Vocals and acoustic guitar, just incredible!


----------



## matthewhypolite

yates7592 said:


> To make the point that Abyss is not a one trick pony, ie bass, thump, prat etc. Just listening to Alela Diane's 'The Pirate's Gospel'. Vocals and acoustic guitar, just incredible!


 

  Good Stuff.


 Been tossing between Abyss and HEK for a while, but i'm committed to Abyss.


----------



## Yoga

yates7592 said:


> To make the point that Abyss is not a one trick pony, ie bass, thump, prat etc. Just listening to Alela Diane's 'The Pirate's Gospel'. Vocals and acoustic guitar, just incredible!


 
  
 I agree entirely. Music such as this I found myself enjoying far more on the Abyss than the LCD-3F and the HEK. I felt no inclination to supplement the Abyss for vocals/acoustic etc. The precision in the layering and separation thrills me more than the best the other cans have to offer.
  
 Check out Cecilia (Simon & Garfunkel). No other cans can reproduce it like the Abyss :¬)
  
 I remember being equally surprised hearing Mrs. Robinson for the first time with them. A song I'd heard countless times was suddenly given extra dimension and engagement. Listen to it if you've not done so yet, it's rather sublime.


----------



## yates7592

Will check those tracks out, like both of them but rarely listen. Simple acoustic tracks just have amazing body on Abyss like nothing else I've heard in cans.


----------



## Articnoise

Sorry for the OT, but I know some of you guys use or has used the Cardas Clear IC and I wonder if anyone have compered it to the new and cheaper Cardas Clear Reflection or the DHC spore.


----------



## yates7592

Pretty sure isquirrel had Cardas Clear IC and replaced them with DHC Spore.


----------



## Articnoise

yates7592 said:


> Pretty sure isquirrel had Cardas Clear IC and replaced them with DHC Spore.


 
  

 I know he has and prefer the DHC spore 4 Fusion HP cables, but thought he may still use the Cardas Clear IC. Let’s see what he says.


----------



## Fririce0003

articnoise said:


> I know he has and prefer the DHC spore 4 Fusion HP cables, but thought he may still use the Cardas Clear IC. Let’s see what he says.


 
  
 I've got the Cardas Clear IC's in my system and I had the chance to hear the DHC Spore 4 Fusion in isquirrel's system. Massive improvement in all aspects, more extended, much more detail and the pacing and soundstage is far ahead of the clear. The clear is a very warm, rich cable, good for correcting thin, dry or bright systems. But the Spore left it in the dust. Accordingly the Silver version steps everything up another notch without adding any brightness or harshness like one would usually expect with silver cables. Peter certainly knows his stuff.
   I've got a set of Spore 4 Silver IC's on order, once they arrive I can post my findings compared to the Cardas Clear.


----------



## Yoga

fririce0003 said:


> I've got the Cardas Clear IC's in my system and I had the chance to hear the DHC Spore 4 Fusion in isquirrel's system. Massive improvement in all aspects, more extended, much more detail and the pacing and soundstage is far ahead of the clear. The clear is a very warm, rich cable, good for correcting thin, dry or bright systems. But the Spore left it in the dust. Accordingly the Silver version steps everything up another notch without adding any brightness or harshness like one would usually expect with silver cables. Peter certainly knows his stuff.
> I've got a set of Spore 4 Silver IC's on order, once they arrive I can post my findings compared to the Cardas Clear.


 
  
 I'll be ordering the Silver Spore4 soon too, can't wait to hear them!


----------



## yates7592

My Silver Spore cables should be shipping in the next few days - to say I cannot wait is an understatement.


----------



## preproman

I've been using Cabledyne Reference Silver cables: USB, XLR digital and XLR analog interconnects for a few years now.


----------



## Articnoise

Okay the Silver Spore4 seems pretty popular here now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I may be interested in a copper Spore4 if someone has one left after upgrading to a Silver Spore4.


----------



## matthewhypolite

articnoise said:


> I know he has and prefer the DHC spore 4 Fusion HP cables, but thought he may still use the Cardas Clear IC. Let’s see what he says.


 
  
 Correction, "i know he *had*...DHC spore 4 Fusion"
  
 I've bought his fusions off him after he upgraded to the Silver !
  
 I've been using a Cerius Liquid Ceramic interconnect before, the spore fusion is much as described by Fririce, the audio is more textured and detailed to my ears. A very full-bodied sounding interconnect, but doesnt sound bloated or laid back. very quick and nimble and detailed, but just adds that extra texture to the instruments. Detail retrieval was also improved over my ceramic and dimazio interconnects, as i could hear breaths etc in tracks i could not previously make out.
  
 I've also taken his headphone cable for the Abyss off him, Spore 4 Fusion as well, and a CAD USB cable.
 The rest of cables i'll test when the rest of my gear gets hear. From the improvements in the interconnects thus far, i know it will all sound great when final rig is assembled.


----------



## yates7592

Sounds like a smart move. Are your observations of DHC Spore Fusion in respect of Abyss or another rig? My Silver Spore USB, IC and HP cables are still not ready but all good things etc...


----------



## matthewhypolite

I don't have the Abyss just yet.
  
 I tested the cables on Denon D7000, (My LCD3 has gone back to audeze, wish I could test it on that).


----------



## Articnoise

matthewhypolite said:


> Correction, "i know he *had*...DHC spore 4 Fusion"
> 
> I've bought his fusions off him after he upgraded to the Silver !
> 
> ...


 
  

 Lol I guess I have lost track on his present gears and preference. 

  

 Nevertheless congratulation! I have a DHC Chaperone3 ACSS cable, so I know that Peter can make some really nice cables. The Chaperone3 is a hybrid with both copper and silver wires and it has no added warmth, brightness or harshness. Maybe I should send it to him for re-termination.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The pictures of your personal organ really need to be here Ralf. Very cool...












fiftykilo said:


> Off Topic !
> 
> Nothing can beat the real stuff !
> 
> ...






fiftykilo said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> please don't understand me wrong, I would never spend so much money for a single High End equipment. I'am now totally happy with my new  hearing equipment : Abyss - Egosita ISIS  so that I decided to sell all my bulky highend Equipment.  This will be the MARTION Orgon four Way active Hornspeakersystem and the Brakemeier APOLYT Turntable with his 50kg airbearing Platter.
> 
> ...


----------



## mulder01

Wow. To all of that.


On a side note, if you google "Egosita ISIS" like I just did, you will get porn. Those are two different products he's referring to there - the Viva Egoista 845 and the Rega Isis CD player. His rig is not Abyss / naked girl... Just wanted to clear that up


----------



## isquirrel

mulder01 said:


> Wow. To all of that.
> 
> 
> On a side note, if you google "Egosita ISIS" like I just did, you will get porn. Those are two different products he's referring to there - the Viva Egoista 845 and the Rega Isis CD player. His rig is not Abyss / naked girl... Just wanted to clear that up


 






 too funny!


----------



## FiftyKilo

LOL !  Abyss and naked girl sounds nice, but will be to complicated with my wife.
  
 I am happy that my wife tolerate my  Pipe Organ and High-End Hobby so NO naked Girl 
  
 Just to make clear, the EGOISTA get's his signals from a "REGA Reference ISIS Valve CD Player"  and this Combo together with the Abyss is heaven.
  
 I have to thank Joe for his research and building skills that he brought the ABYSS to the Headphone market, this headphone is so near to the original sound that it is amazing.


----------



## bmichels

fiftykilo said:


> .... the EGOISTA get's his signals from a "*REGA Reference ISIS Valve CD Player*"  and this Combo together with the Abyss is heaven.


 
  
*has someone also heard the  EGOISTA 845 with the VIVA NUMERICO  CD Player/Dac ?   *
  
 The Numerico is not tube based but... it is made by VIVA to synergize well with the EGOISTA !


----------



## mulder01

Have any of our Melbourneites had a chance to demo the premium JPS Abyss cables?


----------



## Revogamer

Hasn't arrived yet so that would be a no!


----------



## isquirrel

revogamer said:


> Hasn't arrived yet so that would be a no!


 

 Thought the Melbourne store had it?


----------



## Revogamer

isquirrel said:


> Thought the Melbourne store had it?




Have ordered them but nothing has arrived quite yet!


----------



## yates7592

Talking of cables, my Silver Spore are now ready to ship. Can't wait to get them burned in and running with Abyss.


----------



## isquirrel

Great news ! you must be excited. I will PM you my burn in chart for them.


----------



## HighNFidelity

isquirrel said:


> Great news ! you must be excited. I will PM you my burn in chart for them.


Do you have any further thoughts on the sonic attributes of the all Silver Spore version of DHC versus the Fusion Spore edition as it relates to the Abyss? I look forward to your valued opinion.


----------



## FiftyKilo

Looking Great !! please let us know what you find out .
 Regards Ralf


----------



## Nomax

NOW my friends IT'S TIME for the SECOND MASTERPIECE!

DIANA-THE WORLD'S FIRST REAL HIGH-END PLANAR ON EAR by JPS LABS!!





REGARDS NOMAX


----------



## sathyam

If Abyss is not a High End Headphone, how much would Diana cost?


----------



## yates7592

Diana? Please tell more?


----------



## romaz

+1.  I hope it's not really a white headphone.


----------



## seeteeyou

That looked very interesting to me, almost gave me a cardiac arrest


----------



## isquirrel

I think we will find that this is a cheaper version of the Abyss, not sitting above it. Otherwise it would make the manufacturers reasons why the Abyss was made the way it is to produce the best sound a little strange


----------



## Beolab

I don't think we need to be afrid that Diana is a higher grade headphone than the Abyss, because it is a on-the-ear-headphone, so it is maybe the worlds best on-the-ear headphone, but not the best over-the-ear magna planar headphone.

But very interesting news nevertheless..


----------



## isquirrel

beolab said:


> I don't think we need to be afrid that Diana is a higher grade headphone than the Abyss, because it is a on-the-ear-headphone, so it is maybe the worlds best on-the-ear headphone, but not the best over-the-ear magna planar headphone.
> 
> But very interesting news nevertheless..


 

 Its not an Abyss replacement at the top end, talk to your distributor/dealer


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Finally! A high-end on-ear headphones.  Yes!!!!
  
 AB-1266 will remain to be the top dog.


----------



## Nomax

The story behind DIANA comming soon!

Regards Nomax


----------



## Nomax

http://www.hifiinsider.com/diana-by-jps-labs

We've known for awhile that JPS Labs is working on a smaller headphone to compliment the ultra high-end Abyss AB-1266 headphones. Today, our sources tells us the new model will be called "Diana"...

"DIANA -THE WORLDS FIRST REAL HIGH END ON EAR by JPS LABS!!!!!!!

Proprietary planar magnetic transducer design (Patent Pending) utilizing our very thin, very low mass diaphragm. Amazing bandwidth and low level detail retrieval in the bass, mids, and highs. No rear magnet structure typical of planar designs eliminates annoying reflections from behind allowing for a completely open sound. Matched driver pairs." - NOMAX

"Diana is about style, and sound. She’s someone you like to have around. Diana is named after my wife Diane, who was fondly called this by my grandmother. As fate would have it the name appeared one day, and with no objections within the company it was accepted as our next trademark." - Joe 

For those who seek absolute playback, the AB-1266 is not going anywhere, and will remain the strictly bad-ass, high-performance reference headphone that it is. 

Just like every JPS Labs product, Diana will be Made in the USA. First glimpse of Diana will be at the Rocky Mountain Audiofest and CanJam first week of October. Pricing and timing are TBA, target is under 3000 USD

REGARDS CRAZY NOMAX


----------



## Beolab

isquirrel said:


> Its not an Abyss replacement at the top end, talk to your distributor/dealer




Yes that was exactly what i wrote, but in other words..


----------



## Beolab

nomax said:


> http://www.hifiinsider.com/diana-by-jps-labs
> 
> 
> We've known for awhile that JPS Labs is working on a smaller headphone to compliment the ultra high-end Abyss AB-1266 headphones. Today, our sources tells us the new model will be called "Diana"...
> ...




Very nice info! 

Can you tell us the diameter on the diaphragm, if its a smaller reduced one from the Abyss or the same ?


----------



## yates7592

Diana thread is here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/777618/diana-the-second-release-by-abyss-headphones


----------



## Beolab

Yes i know, but Nomax posted the news here.. 

I post my question in the Diana thread instead.


----------



## fire2368

Trevor from Norne are doing new Silver end game cables called the Silvergarde which I think will suit the Abyss, they come as 4x21AWG ($700 mark) and 2x21 AWG ($350). He's also going to be doing Silver Copper mix as well.
  
 Are the 4x21AWG cables overkill for the Abyss in your opinion?
  
 I'm going to be choosing one and I'll definitely post impressions once I receive them.


----------



## yates7592

I would imagine these Silvergarde cables should be a very good match for Abyss, 4 x 21AWG.


----------



## Beolab

In what angel of the head dampers do you guys find that the abyss gives the most dynamic bass ? 

I have tryed to turn the one step upword from 4 o'clock to 2 o'clock if we use the stitching as a reference, give me a better seal, but a little less bass. 

How do you have it angeld. 

See attached picture:


----------



## yates7592

I have mine with the stitching at about 10-11 o'clock looking straight at the right pad and 1-2 o'clock looking straight at the left pad. I'm not sure that gives the best bass to be honest but it seems to suit me in terms of a light seal around my whole ear. I find the distance between the pads seems to have a larger influence on bass. I always have my headband fully extended but the frame bent inwards slightly on both sides to give a light but full seal. That gives me the best bass response. If I have anything less than a light seal, i.e. leaky, I tend to find with bass-heavy music that I start to get distortion or a fuzzy sound. I would be interested to hear how others are fitting theirs and with what type of music.


----------



## Beolab

Sounds like we have them at the same place 10 o'clock at the right and 2 o'clock at the left one.

Please fill in on what setting you have on your Abyss earpads for maximum dynamic bass ?


----------



## hpz

I have my earpad is the similar 10 and 2 o clock region as well. Rotating it closer to 12 o'clock gives me a better seal but the vertical opening height is reduced too much to the point where my ears touch the inner pad.

 My only wish was if JPS Labs would create an earpad which has the ear opening that was rotated slightly off tilt, so that the vertical opening is bigger when in used in this rotated manner.


----------



## matthewhypolite

I've just received the Abyss.
  
 At first listen, they seem severely underpowered on my existing gear. (RSA Dark Star)
 Had to go to High gain and double the volume knob to achieve the same volume as my other headphones. (LCD3/D700) Lol.
  
 Need to see how they do on the LAu when it arrives.
  
  
 They are not the most comfortable headphone either. Have not gone through the adjustment procedures so will see how the SQ and Comfort is after I've done so.


 For initial sq impressions, all I'll say for now is, they slam hard.


----------



## up late

yep it had "slam" alright


----------



## mulder01

The stitching on my pads is at about 1:00.
  
 Quote:


hpz said:


> I have my earpad is the similar 10 and 2 o clock region as well. Rotating it closer to 12 o'clock gives me a better seal but the vertical opening height is reduced too much to the point where my ears touch the inner pad.
> 
> My only wish was if JPS Labs would create an earpad which has the ear opening that was rotated slightly off tilt, so that the vertical opening is bigger when in used in this rotated manner.


 
  
 Yeah I have thought the same thing in the past - it seems like the fattest part of the pad is meant to go under your ear because that would be the narrowest part of your head, so you would think the oval opening on the inside should be vertical when the pads are rotated to this position.
  
  


matthewhypolite said:


> I've just received the Abyss.
> 
> At first listen, they seem severely underpowered on my existing gear. (RSA Dark Star)
> Had to go to High gain and double the volume knob to achieve the same volume as my other headphones. (LCD3/D700) Lol.
> ...


 
  
 Wooohoo!  How long ago did you order them and how long before the Lau arrives?


----------



## yates7592

matthewhypolite said:


> I've just received the Abyss.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I was totally underwhelmed when I first tried them. Now they are powered and adjusted correctly I can't get them off my head.


----------



## fire2368

I have them at 3 o clock to bring out more bass. Usually the 1 o clock setup works well. Just have to make sure that there is a gap on the front part between your face and the pads.


----------



## matthewhypolite

mulder01 said:


> Wooohoo!  How long ago did you order them and how long before the Lau arrives?


 
  
 Bought isquirell's pair off of him, he's all HE1000 now. lol. So got it in a week.
  
 Ordered the LAu in feb. Arriving Oct/Nov.
  


yates7592 said:


> I was totally underwhelmed when I first tried them. Now they are powered and adjusted correctly I can't get them off my head.


 
  
 My experience also. but I've been listening to headphones for a while, so in my mind I analyzed them thinking of what they should sound like when properly adjusted and powered. But I just gave them a once time listen to ensure everything was good with the HP, I've since re-boxed them and waiting for everything to arrive (LAu, Yggy) and then do the adjustments etc. Was going for the CAD DAC, but decided not to spend that amount of $ ATM, so yggy for now, will probably go CAD in a few years.


----------



## preproman

matthewhypolite said:


> Bought isquirell's pair off of him, he's all HE1000 now. lol. So got it in a week.
> 
> Ordered the LAu in feb. Arriving Oct/Nov.
> 
> ...


 
 It will be interesting to hear you impressions of the DarkStar vs. LAu.  Also how you think the Yggdrasil sounds with both.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Will do.


----------



## isquirrel

matthewhypolite said:


> Bought isquirell's pair off of him, he's all HE1000 now. lol. So got it in a week.


 
 Glad you got them so quickly, will find out about replacement ear pads for you today and send you a PM, must be frustrating to have the good HP's and cables etc and have to wait for the amp & DAC, still the wait will make you enjoy them all the more


----------



## matthewhypolite

I've been waiting on the LAu since feb, im acclimated to the wait time by now..just trying really hard to "forget" what I heard and just continue on with my Denons until everythingg arrives lolol.


----------



## fire2368

Did you get the DHC cables with it?


----------



## matthewhypolite

Yup, Spore 4 Fusion.
  
 I briefly compared between spore and stock. Right away I could tell the spore 4 sounded smoother and more textured.
 The stock sounded..."harsh?" in comparison.
  
 Once I get everything together ill do some proper comparison and critical listening. Which would be after Nov, so Christmas time. Hoping to have everything assembled and burnt in for some nice listening on Christmas Day


----------



## HiFiGuy528

bam!!!  
  
 Going mobile with AB + AK380.  This is what happens when you don't want to take the headphones off.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Abyss is wife approved.


----------



## sathyam

hifiguy528 said:


> bam!!!
> 
> Going mobile with AB + AK380.  This is what happens when you don't want to take the headphones off.


 
  
 Can the AK380 power the Abyss?


----------



## matthewhypolite

sathyam said:


> Can the AK380 power the Abyss?


 
  
 this.^^


----------



## mulder01

matthewhypolite said:


> Bought isquirell's pair off of him, he's all HE1000 now. lol. So got it in a week.
> 
> Ordered the LAu in feb. Arriving Oct/Nov.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Surprised he has gone solely HE1K...  
  
 Hmm seems like your unacceptable setup that isn't even worth getting the Abyss out of the box for, is worth double the setup I've been using for the last year... 
  
  
 I also use the Abyss off a portable sometimes which can deliver about .6w into them and it drives them louder than I would listen, but I guess sq wise, it's not quite at the level of a top tier desktop amp.  For the price they are asking for the AK380, it SHOULD drive them ok, but given that there's no obvious place where they've stated the power output of the amp, I'm tipping it would be pretty low.


----------



## mulder01

hifiguy528 said:


> Abyss is wife approved.


 
  
 Could just about fit your arm behind the bottom of that earpad.  Do you find that to be the best fit for you?


----------



## Beolab

matthewhypolite said:


> I've just received the Abyss.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




According to Ray Samuels the Dark Star puts out nearly the sam power as the Lau more than 8 watts @ 50 Ohms so it will be interesting to hear how big the difference will be..


----------



## FiftyKilo

Now after one month with the Egoista 845 I did switch back for one week to my Cavalli LAu. Oh Man ! on many Organ recordings I could hear that he is not powerfull enough and get compressed when I move over 15.00 a' clock Poti volume. 
He is no question loud enough ! but you can hear he had to fight with complex rich music. I could not understand how People can listen with portable gear. Ok I am a very loud hearing Headphone enthusiast but with the Abyss it is like big American muscle cars, you could not have enough power under the bonet. 5,4 liter will be fine, but it is still a small block !


----------



## Yoga

When using the stitching as the marker - 1pm and 11am is my choice. I have s smaller had and don't need to open the Abyss up much, although I do as to angle the earcups to adjust treble on certain tracks. The distance from the cups to the head is certainly the key for getting the bass spot on.
  
 Since I've been using the moon for a while now, I'm looking forward to testing the Egoista + Numerico and 845 at CanJam next weekend :¬)


----------



## FiftyKilo

Just to make clear, the above writen belongs only to very compex and rich Music, like realy large Theatre Organs and Orchester Music like Mahler and Sibelius or Russian Masters. 
But where Light is , there is also shadow; the Egoista 845 get so hot, that it was to warm in my very small Bedroom, that is the reason why I did switch back to the LAu. Further the Egoista is such a mellow and rich sounding Head Phone Amp, that you allways want to get louder and louder. My personal preference of the poti Volume knob is between 13.00 and 15.00 a clock on the Egoista and I have to self defend me, not to get louder. 
The Combination of Abyss and the big Egoista is like a legal drug ( Alcohol - sex etc.... ) you have to self control you and find out when it will be enough.


----------



## Beolab

fiftykilo said:


> Just to make clear, the above writen belongs only to very compex and rich Music, like realy large Theatre Organs and Orchester Music like Mahler and Sibelius or Russian Masters.
> But where Light is , there is also shadow; the Egoista 845 get so hot, that it was to warm in my very small Bedroom, that is the reason why I did switch back to the LAu. Further the Egoista is such a mellow and rich sounding Head Phone Amp, that you allways want to get louder and louder. My personal preference of the poti Volume knob is between 13.00 and 15.00 a clock on the Egoista and I have to self defend me, not to get louder.
> The Combination of Abyss and the big Egoista is like a legal drug ( Alcohol - sex etc.... ) you have to self control you and find out when it will be enough.





Whats the price on the Egoista $110k ??


----------



## HiFiGuy528

sathyam said:


> Can the AK380 power the Abyss?


 
  
 AK380 can drive AB at moderate listening level and the sound quality is good.  I'm looking forward to the 380AMP for more headroom.
  
  
 Quote:


mulder01 said:


> Could just about fit your arm behind the bottom of that earpad.  Do you find that to be the best fit for you?


 
  
 That's my wife in the picture trying out AB.  She likes that it doesn't compress her head like traditional headphones and she likes the big sound as well.


----------



## matthewhypolite

beolab said:


> According to Ray Samuels the Dark Star puts out nearly the sam power as the Lau more than 8 watts @ 50 Ohms so it will be interesting to hear how big the difference will be..


 
  
 I know the Dark Star is  a power monster, cause me off guard how much power it took to drive the Abyss to my liking. D7000/LCD3/Senn HD650 were all much easier to drive on the Dark Star and even the HeadRoom BUDA.
  
 Trying not to comment on the Abyss much, as i have no taken the time to adjust fit or get comfortable with the cans.
  
 But ill see how the LAu does compare when it gets here.
 I'll be selling the Dark Star soon after if the LAu lives up to it's reputation.
  
 I like power and authority in my cans, which is why i went with Dark Star in the first place.


----------



## Beolab

matthewhypolite said:


> I know the Dark Star is  a power monster, cause me off guard how much power it took to drive the Abyss to my liking. D7000/LCD3/Senn HD650 were all much easier to drive on the Dark Star and even the HeadRoom BUDA.
> 
> Trying not to comment on the Abyss much, as i have no taken the time to adjust fit or get comfortable with the cans.
> 
> ...




Yes the Lau puts out 0,5 watts more than the Dark Star, so its more the characteristics in the sound reproduction that differs in btw. 

So if you want a huge improvment i think the Egoista is the only way to go..


----------



## matthewhypolite

beolab said:


> Yes the Lau puts out 0,5 watts more than the Dark Star, so its more the characteristics in the sound reproduction that differs in btw.
> 
> So if you want a huge improvment i think the Egoista is the only way to go..


 
  
 How does Egotists compare to the Woo 234


----------



## cladane

The comparison is not easy since I don't know if in Europe the 234 has been sold. Is it CE compliant ?
  
 On the paper those two headphones amplifiers are very different. The Egoista has been designed only for headphones with specific output transformers delivering 15W per channel into any impedance without needing switches.
 Using 845 tubes provides straightness and dynamic that 300B or 2A3 tubes can't, perhaps 211 ones.
  
 Viva manufactures also a 2A3 amp which could suit more the comparison with the 234.
  
 Power isn't all the picture. How to compete Italian design and tone ?


----------



## Yoga

matthewhypolite said:


> How does Egotists compare to the Woo 234


 

@romaz will be hearing the Woo 234 quite soon, he has extensive experience with the VIVAs as you've probably seen. I'm looking forward to his thoughts myself :¬)


----------



## cladane

Yes #Yoga but we differ on the way we listen to music. So on the characteristics we will look for the amp.
 Voices versus large phalanxes, low volumes versus huge transitions, softness versus vigour.
  
 #romaz chose the Studio against the Egoista, he should go for the WA234.
 Let's see.
  
 Waiting for your impressions at Canjam of Egoista + Numerico (Abyss or HE1000 ?)


----------



## Yoga

cladane said:


> Yes #Yoga but we differ on the way we listen to music. So on the characteristics we will look for the amp.
> Voices versus large phalanxes, low volumes versus huge transitions, softness versus vigour.
> 
> #romaz chose the Studio against the Egoista, he should go for the WA234.
> ...


 

 Indeed!
  
 Looking forward to it - only a few days to go. Abyss only, I returned the HEK.


----------



## isquirrel

For me the positive of running the 234's is that it allows you to select more than one driver output key, so you tune the amp more precisely to match the impedance of your headphone. on both the Abyss, LCD-# & HEK this helped to nail the right combination. You even have 2 choices of how you drive the headphone at the same impedance, you can choose Cathode Hi & Lo, Plate Hi & Lo.
 I don't believe you can do that with the Viva's.
  
 Secondly  - you can't run other tube designations with the Viva its the 2A4 or 845 and reading the manufacturers site they strongly suggest staying away from any other tube except for theirs. Maybe I am being cynical but Audio Research also do this as well as a number of other High End 2 channel manufacturers. I am sorry if this offend anyone but there is no way a modern production 2A3 or 845 cab compete with the plethora of choices that lie within NOS tubes out there.
  
 Further the 234 is able to run the 45's, 2A3's and 300B's - this is a further tuning aid to help lock in the right combination. In journey I have tried all of the above and keep returning to 2 main power tubes and rectifiers. For new production the Takatsuki's are giants annoy the rest of the new Tubes available. When I consider NOS tubes than its no contest the Vintage Western Electric 300B's and 274B's are optimum. The 234's will allow you to to run a number of different rectifier tubes as well, anything from 5UR4, 422a's, GZ 34's the list goes on. You are all have flexibility with driver tubes anything with a 6SN7 spec to a 6F8G, 7N7 again the list is extensive.
  
 I would be interested in a comparison done with the same tubes as well as any other that the amps can run. Their is a wide delta in sonic performance between tubes. If say Takatsuki made 845's and 2A3's then it would be more interesting to me. I choose to run either Western Electric's or Takatsuki's because these are the best sounding tubes I have experienced and IMHO far ahead of the 2A3's and the 845's. The 234's are shipped with stock tubes that are $40 a pair, Woo know that people at that end of the market are going to tube roll, so if I was having a straight shootout between these 2 amps I would want the best tubes of their types in both and test them over a few days with a variety of tubes. There is quite q difference between 45's, 2A3 & 300B's I am not saying one is right - I can only state my preferences. A friend of mine also owns 234's and he enjoys 45's in them. They change the sound of the amp significantly.
  
 Lastly: The Viva does not provide for balanced headphone outputs or any balanced inputs, a Single Ended valve amp is by its very nature not a balanced topography, however I have experienced some "front ends" sources DAC's, Turntables which are inherently balanced by configuration and they do sound significantly better through the balanced input of the 234's.
  
 So I think leaving ultimate sound quality aside, then the best amp for the Tube Roller and multiple headphone owner is the 234's - the Viva is better suited to a end user who is not interested in these things and just wants good sound and does;t mind or in fact is probably not aware of the limitations of the Viva's. Its probably safe to say Italian flair for the well heeled non technical customer and American industrial design for those that these things matter. IMHO I would think that unless its sound is so markedly superior to the 234's then it I feel covered technically in areas with he 234's that I do not feel comfortable about with the Viva's.
  
 As always just my opinion and of course people will say I am being defensive about the 234's because I own a pair. 
  
 I almost forgot, neither or these amps are ultimately best suited to the task at hand, they can be improved. They both utilise passive volume control's which if anyone is interested I can go into more detail about those in a later post. However the addition of a device (pre-amp) which can actively drive the amps free of the constraints of the line level voltage will improve the sound significantly. We are yet to see dedicated power amps and pre-amps in the headphone market, but I am sure they are not to far away.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Abyss has a new logo, shaped like the letter 'A', all about music...​

​


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I like it!


----------



## HighNFidelity

joe skubinski said:


> Abyss has a new logo, shaped like the letter 'A', all about music...​
> 
> ​


Should we look for this new logo on the latest production models of AB-1266?


----------



## icebear

Perfect fit of the light glowing colors with the more gothic typeface of the name


----------



## Joe Skubinski

highnfidelity said:


> Should we look for this new logo on the latest production models of AB-1266?




Will be on models going forward, Diana being the first.. 
In a few weeks at Rocky Mountain Audiofest CanJam our shirts will sport this new look..


----------



## Joe Skubinski

@icebear, was thinking on making a vinyl decal for the Rubicon this winter..


----------



## greekgod

Hey Joe, 

 I look foward to checking out the Abyss and hopefully the Diana at RMAF. Which amps will you be demonstrating with? I would love hear your headphones with the Moon 430, Viva Audio amps, and also the new Eddie Current Studio.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

This year at Rocky Mountain Audiofest we will be in CanJam with the latest Woo Audio WA5-LE and Astell & Kerns AK380.

In our quiet room Suite 8000 plan to have the following:

All JPS Labs cabling

Woo WA234 mono amps (w/ Takasuki tubes)
Simaudio Moon Neo 430
Viva Egoista (not yet confirmed)
Wells Audio HeadTrip
Cavalli LAu
Mytek Manhattan DAC/AMP (adapted for full balanced output)
Sony HAP-Z1ES player

Bruce from Puget Sound Studios will be in our room as usual with some of his newly mastered studio goodies (DSD256), and possibly the new Lampizator Balanced Golden Gate DAC. Guaranteed great sound!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Hi Joe,
  
 Any update as to if/when there will be a Canadian distributor?  
  
 -Best


----------



## nepherte

joe skubinski said:


> This year at Rocky Mountain Audiofest we will be in CanJam with the latest Woo Audio WA5-LE and Astell & Kerns AK380.
> 
> In our quiet room Suite 8000 plan to have the following:
> 
> ...


 

 Will definitely pay a visit then


----------



## Revogamer

Have finally joined the club  

Glad to be here..


----------



## preproman

revogamer said:


> Have finally joined the club
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Welcome:
  
 What amp are you using to drive them?


----------



## Revogamer

preproman said:


> Welcome:
> 
> What amp are you using to drive them?


 
 Violectric V281 for now.. but it's a Moon 600i in the future; had the V281 already so at least a reasonable stop-gap!
  
 Have tried the Bryston 4BSST2 which was very good too however, but the 600i Is still the way I will go methinks


----------



## preproman

OMG Excellent choice on the 600i.  That a beast of an amp and will sound great with the Abyss.  That's "one" of my favorite amps..


----------



## matthewhypolite

revogamer said:


> Have finally joined the club
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome, 
  
 How are you liking them compared to your HE-6?


----------



## wink

Quote:Revogamer 





> Have finally joined the club
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 About time, Billy....
  
 How long before the Hifiman HE-1000 keeps it company?


----------



## greekgod

revogamer said:


> Violectric V281 for now.. but it's a Moon 600i in the future; had the V281 already so at least a reasonable stop-gap!
> 
> Have tried the Bryston 4BSST2 which was very good too however, but the 600i Is still the way I will go methinks


 
 I don't see a headphone jack on either the Moon nor the Bryston. What type of a adapter are you using? I must say that Moon 600i Special Edition sure does look nice.


----------



## preproman

This is all you need.  Bananas or Spades.


----------



## matthewhypolite

greekgod said:


> I don't see a headphone jack on either the Moon nor the Bryston. What type of a adapter are you using? I must say that Moon 600i Special Edition sure does look nice.


 

 What type of connector is this? for what amp? i'm guessing its 1 side of an abyss.


----------



## Beolab

preproman said:


> This is all you need.  Bananas or Spades.




Who sell the special bananas/spades - 4 pin XLR in good quality?


----------



## preproman

You can ask any after market cable maker to make that cable to your specs.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Updated...



joe skubinski said:


> This year at Rocky Mountain Audiofest we will be in CanJam with the latest Woo Audio WA5-LE and Astell & Kerns AK380.
> 
> At CanJam and In our quiet room Suite 8000, at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest:
> 
> ...


----------



## Jalo

Joe, will there be any show discount or promotional offer?


----------



## Beolab

preproman said:


> You can ask any after market cable maker to make that cable to your specs.




And the cable on the picture are from what company?


----------



## greekgod

Thanks for the update, Joe. Your room will be the first thing I check out at RMAF.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

We leave that up to our dealers at the show.




jalo said:


> Joe, will there be any show discount or promotional offer?


----------



## wink




----------



## mulder01

jalo said:


> Joe, will there be any show discount or promotional offer?


 
  
 Even if there's nothing advertised, I think most dealers at a show will definitely be willing to offer some sort of discount if you just ask, considering they are surrounded by competition that day.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

My AB-1266's are en route!!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Finally!!


----------



## Jalo

mulder01 said:


> considering they are surrounded by competition that day.




What competition?


----------



## mulder01

jalo said:


> What competition?


 
  
 Well I imagine there will be at least a dozen or more stands with head fi gear, and every one of them would like you to spend all your money at their stand.  Anyone can pay retail price for anything any day of the week, but I'd say a lot of exhibitors are going to want to make a lot of sales on the day so they will need to offer some sort of incentive for you to hand over all your hard-earned on the spot.  If they say to you "mate sorry, full retail price only" then there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't walk away because you could get that deal off anyone at anytime.  Surely you have delt with salespeople before...  Same as if you go to a car show and one brand is offering 10% off and another isn't, who is going to get the sales?


----------



## Jalo

I understand and agree your point in general. But I was referring to the Abyss. I really don't see the Abyss is surrounded by competitors.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Competitor 1 = Audeze LCD 4.


----------



## Jalo

Well, not yet, until they can prove by peer review and consensus that they have solved their QC problems.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Yes, they need to prove the QC issues are solved, but its very much competition...


----------



## bigfatpaulie

No kidding, if they last more than 3 months at a time, that'd be a nice step forward for the 4's....


----------



## yates7592

For me, I can't see the LCD-4 being serious competition to Abyss. I've owned (and sold) LCD-3 and to my old ears it was miles away. Dark, muddy, limited soundstage, very uncomfortable with that 'clamp'. So unless LCD-4 is a completely new product divorced from LCD-3 I don't think Joe @ Abyss has too many sleepless nights ahead.


----------



## Yoga

yates7592 said:


> For me, I can't see the LCD-4 being serious competition to Abyss. I've owned (and sold) LCD-3 and to my old ears it was miles away. Dark, muddy, limited soundstage, very uncomfortable with that 'clamp'. So unless LCD-4 is a completely new product divorced from LCD-3 I don't think Joe @ Abyss has too many sleepless nights ahead.


 
  
 Agree entirely.
  
 LCD-3F was my planned upgrade route, the Abyss was bought and auditioned as a curiosity.
  
 After comparing them, I had no choice, it had to be the Abyss. Same with the HEK, although they have more accurate bass and better treble, all other cans just sound compressed and tight. The Abyss is a different listening experience, perfect for my tastes.
  
 I'm hoping the Spore4 cable helps soften and extend the treble.


----------



## yates7592

yoga said:


> Agree entirely.
> 
> LCD-3F was my planned upgrade route, the Abyss was bought and auditioned as a curiosity.
> 
> ...




It will. Have you ordered? I've had my Spore cables for about 6 weeks now and have transformed my system. Suffice to say you won't be disappointed. I'm hoping to make a full review when time allows.


----------



## matthewhypolite

I have both HEK and Abyss, and the HEK is very much competition for the Abyss, if I had to keep only 1 HP, it will be the HEK, because the HEK does more (to my ears) better, than the Abyss. But the areas the Abyss wins, they win by a lot.

 How I sum it up, for bass slam, MJ, dubstep, any music with a clean non-fatiguing presentation, the Abyss slays.

 But for everything else, HEK, also the HEK is more comfortable.
  
 The LCD4 is very much a completely new headphone, they have now moved to a nanometer thick driver (the same as HEK), so I'm assuming it will achieve similar glory to HEK.
  
 Obviously all of this is highly speculative, but Hifiman achieved great things with that nanometer thick driver, if LCD4 has done the same, then yes, id be interested. If they can get the lush Audeze house sound, whiles achieving the speed a nanometer thick driver would offer, then that would be very interesting.
  
 Also, you guys should understand, competition != better.

 So when I say the LCD4 is competition for Abyss, I'm not saying its better, we don't even have any feedback on their sound save that one jude video lolol. But on paper, its very much competition.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

matthewhypolite said:


> I have both HEK and Abyss, and the HEK is very much competition for the Abyss, if I had to keep only 1 HP, it will be the HEK, because the HEK does more (to my ears) better, than the Abyss. But the areas the Abyss wins, they win by a lot.
> 
> How I sum it up, for bass slam, MJ, dubstep, any music with a clean non-fatiguing presentation, the Abyss slays.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Agreed.  I think any flagship headphone, honestly, is going to be competition to any other flagship.  What I mean is that, when I consider a new pair (I think like many others) I consider as many as possible in that weight (read price) class.  I decide on one (or two, or three) based on my preferences.  
  
 It is amazing how many very high-priced headphones are hitting the market.  I guess all these manufactures think we have really deep pockets.


----------



## matthewhypolite

bigfatpaulie said:


> Agreed.  I think any flagship headphone, honestly, is going to be competition to any other flagship.  What I mean is that, when I consider a new pair (I think like many others) I consider as many as possible in that weight (read price) class.  I decide on one (or two, or three) based on my preferences.
> 
> It is amazing how many very high-priced headphones are hitting the market.  I guess all these manufactures think we have really deep pockets.


 

 ​Yes, exactly.

 @ deep pockets...maybe they should stop thinking that...rofl...but ill say this, we seem to be getting great cans in both directions, their are a lot more "cheap" hifi cans around now than before, and the lower end of the spectrum is getting a lot better, just look at HE400s. Guess they're expanding towards the higher prices also.


 Good thing is, there's someone for everyone at every price. Good times ahead for our hobby.


----------



## Beolab

*Request for sound difference btw Moon 430 Neo and Cavalli Liquid Gold *


I have never had the opportunity to have a listening to the Cavalli Liquid Gold amp with my Abyss, but i do have listen to the Sim Audio Moon 430 Neo, and i did not like it. 

So my question is if someone who have listen to them both can describe to me in short before i place an order on the Lau of the sound differences btw the Moon 430 Neo and the Lau ? 

What i am searching for is more warmth in the bass area and more dynamic reserve / control and with fluid fine detail in the upper mids, and i did not find the Moon to process that.


----------



## Yoga

beolab said:


> *Request for sound difference btw Moon 430 Neo and Cavalli Liquid Gold *
> 
> 
> I have never had the opportunity to have a listening to the Cavalli Liquid Gold amp with my Abyss, but i do have listen to the Sim Audio Moon 430 Neo, and i did not like it.
> ...


 
  
 Odd, that's what I like about the Moon. Did you audition a fully burned in unit? It sounds very flat before 300, and then continues to improve until about 500 hours.
  
 Perhaps you should audition tubes too? From what I've read the LAu is more neutral than the Moon, it might not offer the sound signature you're after.


----------



## yates7592

Yoga, can you please explain why you think HEK has more accurate bass than Abyss?


----------



## Yoga

yates7592 said:


> It will. Have you ordered? I've had my Spore cables for about 6 weeks now and have transformed my system. Suffice to say you won't be disappointed. I'm hoping to make a full review when time allows.


 
  
 Not yet, been very busy the last few months - all hp audio activity ceased - while also debating whether to plump for a TOTL tube system (which would change the default build of the Spore4).
  
 I'll get them ordered this week I think, perhaps the Off Ramp 5 also (for the 430HAD).
  
 How's the Headtrip? :¬)


----------



## Yoga

yates7592 said:


> Yoga, can you please explain why you think HEK has more accurate bass than Abyss?


 
  
 It extends further and is faster. The HEK have great bass, but it's still the 'standard' headphone bass kind.
  
 Abyss bass is a different kind/experience entirely, one I much prefer.


----------



## Beolab

yoga said:


> Odd, that's what I like about the Moon. Did you audition a fully burned in unit? It sounds very flat before 300, and then continues to improve until about 500 hours.
> 
> Perhaps you should audition tubes too? From what I've read the LAu is more neutral than the Moon, it might not offer the sound signature you're after.




Yes i have thought about it to try a tube amp, but was thinking that maybe the Lau had almost the tube like sound but with greater bass reserve and more controlled bass definition. 

So what tube amp should work do you think with great power reserve? 

I have looked at the EAR 834 speaker amp and AirTight -S1 speaker amp, but i don't know if they are any good for the Abyss?


----------



## Hun7er

I think Abyss is good headphone but for me it 2 fatals flaws.
  
 It have recessed and hollow mid.
 Treble has an issue, they are inconsistent either too soft or too harsh


----------



## SpherE22

Man I'm itching to try the abyss out of a good amp like the moon neo. The one time I auditioned it was on a questyle amp(I can't figure out which one). It sounded absolutely horrible to my ears. Treble was far too harsh and midrange was extremely recessed. Bass wasn't too amazing without a proper seal either. Also, how do you guys get a good seal? I felt like a circus clown trying to balance the headphones on my head


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Sounds like you're describing the sound of your gear, not the headphone.. we get that a lot. 




hun7er said:


> I think Abyss is good headphone but for me it 2 fatals flaws.
> 
> It have recessed and hollow mid.
> Treble has an issue, they are inconsistent either too soft or too harsh


----------



## yates7592

joe skubinski said:


> Sounds like you're describing the sound of your gear, not the headphone.. we get that a lot.




Yep, sounds right to me. I have no issues with treble or recessed mids.


----------



## Hun7er

joe skubinski said:


> Sounds like you're describing the sound of your gear, not the headphone.. we get that a lot.


 
  
 I test it on Balancing Act, 2A3MKIV and Stratus and had the same behavior. Sound like it's the headphone.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

sphere22 said:


> Man I'm itching to try the abyss out of a good amp like the moon neo. The one time I auditioned it was on a questyle amp(I can't figure out which one). It sounded absolutely horrible to my ears. Treble was far too harsh and midrange was extremely recessed. Bass wasn't too amazing without a proper seal either. Also, how do you guys get a good seal? I felt like a circus clown trying to balance the headphones on my head


 
  
 I can't speak for others but what I did was I took the pads off the headphones and held each one up to my ear and rotated it until the flat plastic outer part was and level and vertical as possible - I used a mirror.  Then I attached the pad to the headphone in the closest possible orientation.  
  
 I hope that's clear....  Basically, I leveled the pad on my head first, ensure a good fit, then attached them to the AB-1266's.


----------



## yates7592

@ hun7er- I'm not very familiar with all those amps but looking at the specs seems like all of them put out barely more than 1W at Abyss rated impedance. That's not enough to get the best out of these cans. Suggest you demo with higher power amps to start.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

hun7er said:


> I test it on Balancing Act, 2A3MKIV and Stratus and had the same behavior. Sound like it's the headphone.


 
  
 Interesting.  What tubes are you running in your DNA with the AB-1266's?  IIRC you had EML 2a3...  right?
  
 I haven't listened to the Abyss with my Stratus as of yet, but I am not experiencing hallow mids or recessed treble at all with my INT-30a.


----------



## Hun7er

bigfatpaulie said:


> Interesting.  What tubes are you running in your DNA with the AB-1266's?  IIRC you had EML 2a3...  right?
> 
> I haven't listened to the Abyss with my Stratus as of yet, but I am not experiencing hallow mids or recessed treble at all with my INT-30a.


 
  
 EML 2A3, Sylvania and RCA sounds the same.
  
 *hollow mid
 If your brain is accustomed to the headphone you will not hear. But when you switch to another headphone...
 It's more recessed high mid than recessed treble. Mids lack presence.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

hun7er said:


> EML 2A3, Sylvania and RCA sounds the same.
> 
> *hollow mid
> If your brain is accustomed to the headphone you will not hear. But when you switch to another headphone...
> It's more recessed high mid than recessed treble. Mids lack presence.


 
  
 Interesting...
  
 My AB-1266's arrived on Monday so I am definitely not accustomed to them (not yet anyway).  
  
 I wonder if it is a synergy issue or perhaps your cables.  I'm just taking a stab here...


----------



## Hun7er

I'm not the single who share the same impression. It's more sensitivity or taste.


----------



## preproman

I never experienced recessed mids, however, they don't have as much presence as the LCDs or the HE-6.  Also not in the same category as the TH900s recessed mids.


----------



## preproman

hun7er said:


> I'm not the single who share the same impression. It's more sensitivity or taste.


 

 How would you say the Abyss compares to your 007 MKIs?


----------



## Hun7er

preproman said:


> How would you say the Abyss compares to your 007 MKIs?


 
 Te be clear when I said "recessed mid" is relative to SR009, SR007, HD600 or HE6.
 When I said "odd high mid/treble" is relative to SR007, HD600 or SR009.
  
 In an absolute reference the mid, high mid/treble are good but IMO not enough good for the price.
  
 I like the frequency response of the SR007MKI, better than the Abyss. Okay the bass didn't hit hard and not extended as the Abyss. Soundstage is more intimate than the Abyss. But in the end it didn't sound odd on certains frequencies. 
  
 But the SR007 remains an electrostatic and it is too ethereal to sound like real.


----------



## preproman

hun7er said:


> Te be clear when I said "recessed mid" is relative to SR009, SR007, HD600 or HE6.
> When I said "odd high mid/treble" is relative to SR007, HD600 or SR009.
> 
> In an absolute reference the mid, high mid/treble are good but IMO not enough good for the price.
> ...


 

 What's your definition of ethereal sound?


----------



## Beolab

hun7er said:


> I think Abyss is good headphone but for me it 2 fatals flaws.
> 
> It have recessed and hollow mid.
> Treble has an issue, they are inconsistent either too soft or too harsh




I find them in the exact same way!

And i have tried them on:
Sim Audio Moon 430 Neo 8watt @ 46ohm, Audio-GD NFB-1, 7 watts @ 46 ohm, 
Pathos Aurium tube hybrid 1,5 watts @ 46 Ohms

DAC:s 

Chord Hugo 
Chord QBD76 HDSD 
MSB Analog


And i hear the same characteristics in every way, so it have to be the Abyss headphones sound character, otherwise feel free to tell us what gear do we need with a opposite V curve ?  

You will most likely need equipment that have +9 db in the mids to make them bone flat neutral or use a EQ.


----------



## yates7592

Just want to report that AB-1266 is supreme for reggae, dub, anything related. Superb!


----------



## Yoga

yates7592 said:


> Just want to report that AB-1266 is supreme for reggae, dub, anything related. Superb!


 
  
 I listen to a lot of electronica - they are incredible for that too :¬)
  
 Any Abyss owners had a play with an EQ?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Anyone here made it out to CanJam@RMAF over the weekend? Here's a quick pic from the show.


----------



## Beolab

Nice is it a Woo-Audio WA-5 i see in the picture or?


----------



## Yoga

beolab said:


> Nice is it a Woo-Audio WA-5 i see in the picture or?


 

 I would assume it's the new WA5 :¬)


----------



## HiFiGuy528

beolab said:


> Nice is it a Woo-Audio WA-5 i see in the picture or?


 
  
 It's the new WA5-LE.
  
 http://wooaudio.com/products/wa5le.html


----------



## Beolab

Okey, and whats the difference btw the WA-5 300B more than its a $2000 in price difference?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The Abyss listening room won an award for superior sound at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, out of well over 200 high performance audio systems, headphones and loudspeakers. Many thanks to all who stopped by for a listen !!!


​
​
​
​
​
​
​


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## dBel84

Well deserved, congrats..dB


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## bigfatpaulie

That is some pretty sensational gear driving some pretty sensational cans.
  
 Congrats, Joe!


----------



## greekgod

Hearing the Abyss with the Viva Egoista was the most 3D sound I have ever heard from a headphone system by far.


----------



## Beolab

greekgod said:


> Hearing the Abyss with the Viva Egoista was the most 3D sound I have ever heard from a headphone system by far.




I belive you  

What source / DAC did they use for the Egoista?


----------



## greekgod

They were using the Sony HAPZ1ES.


----------



## Beolab

Im in a search for a small/medium sized DAC with more grunt, impact in the base than my current too neutral Chord Hugo im using today. 

The Hugo are holding the bass back and get harsh :thumbsdown_tone1::thumbsdown_tone1::thumbsdown_tone1::thumbsdown_tone1:

Any suggestions for my Abyss?


----------



## greekgod

My experience with dacs is limited. When I went to RMAF, I was very fond of the Bel Canto 3.7 and the Resonessence Labs Mirus. I am firm believer that amps make a much bigger difference than dacs. I would also suggest getting a preamp in your system that has tone controls. I have a Mcintosh C40 and I love it. It allows me to enhance the bass to insane levels.


----------



## mulder01

I'm with greekgod, I wouldn't think buying a new dac would be the best way to add a bit of bass to your system.  I have always been of the assumption that dacs by their very nature are supposed to be as neutral and accurate as possible.
  
 I know a lot of folks will disagree with me here, but I'd say the sound of a system is probably about 70% headphone 25% amp and 5% dac.  If you get a slightly bassier dac I don't think you'd achieve much overall.  (and you may end up spending a packet)
  
 If you're playing music from your PC, could you do something as simple as using a software EQ?  You can get any curve you like then, and easily adjust for different genres etc...
  
 Just a thought


----------



## Fririce0003

mulder01 said:


> I'm with greekgod, I wouldn't think buying a new dac would be the best way to add a bit of bass to your system.  I have always been of the assumption that dacs by their very nature are supposed to be as neutral and accurate as possible.
> 
> I know a lot of folks will disagree with me here, but I'd say the sound of a system is probably about 70% headphone 25% amp and 5% dac.  If you get a slightly bassier dac I don't think you'd achieve much overall.  (and you may end up spending a packet)
> 
> ...




 I'd disagree to an extent on this one, I'd say well over 50% of the sound is from the DAC. It and the source is where it all starts, going from the WA5 to the 234 wasn't as much of a changes as upgrading from the Vega. One of the first things I noticed with the new DAC was an increase in bass quantity and quality.


----------



## mulder01

I thought you and Simon might disagree...


----------



## Fririce0003

mulder01 said:


> I thought you and Simon might disagree...




 Hahaha, well we do have some nice toys to play around with


----------



## Joe Skubinski

I would avoid silver in your cabling. It tends to not do bass frequencies well, so sounds lean and a bit tipped up in the treble. 

Suggest to use what we use.. JPS Labs cables





beolab said:


> Im in a search for a small/medium sized DAC with more grunt, impact in the base than my current too neutral Chord Hugo im using today.
> 
> The Hugo are holding the bass back and get harsh :thumbsdown_tone1::thumbsdown_tone1::thumbsdown_tone1::thumbsdown_tone1:
> 
> Any suggestions for my Abyss?


----------



## Beolab

fririce0003 said:


> I'd disagree to an extent on this one, I'd say well over 50% of the sound is from the DAC. It and the source is where it all starts, going from the WA5 to the 234 wasn't as much of a changes as upgrading from the Vega. One of the first things I noticed with the new DAC was an increase in bass quantity and quality.




So what DAC is your favourite then?


----------



## Beolab

joe skubinski said:


> I would avoid silver in your cabling. It tends to not do bass frequencies well, so sounds lean and a bit tipped up in the treble.
> 
> Suggest to use what we use.. JPS Labs cables




Hi Joe! 

Yes i know this, but i have tried out different High End interconnects , and it did get a slight softer and more undefined in the base area and less detail / transparency in the upper mid/high, so it did not get any warmer or more bass at all, so thats why im in a search for a new DAC.

I did tried a MSB Analog DAC and i liked it a lot, but i need even more warmth to the sound so maybe a Woo- Audio WA5 can solve the problem.


----------



## deuter

mulder01 said:


> I'm with greekgod, I wouldn't think buying a new dac would be the best way to add a bit of bass to your system.  I have always been of the assumption that dacs by their very nature are supposed to be as neutral and accurate as possible.
> 
> I know a lot of folks will disagree with me here, but I'd say the sound of a system is probably about 70% headphone 25% amp and 5% dac.  If you get a slightly bassier dac I don't think you'd achieve much overall.  (and you may end up spending a packet)
> 
> ...




I am not sure what experience you have had with high end DACs but for me always the DAC had made the most improvement in sound quality


Rest is preference


----------



## Joe Skubinski

I never mentioned 'different' high end interconnects. 

You're on what I call the merry-go-round. Most audio aficionados reside here, keep swapping gear for other gear, inserting flaws to counter existing flaws, sooner or later finding balance but never _really_ happy, then as time goes on having to find a new component with similar flaws to the old to maintain that balance. The idea is to systematically eliminate these flaws, and cabling is a huge factor when you have a transducer intimate to the ear telling you like it is.

Amazing frequency extremes, low bass with excellent control, Superconductor 3 interconnects, http://www.jpslabs.com/superconductor_3_jps.shtml . Keep in mind you cannot leave other cables in the loop as you will only hear them. The entire chain from source to amp should be the same brand.

We also have a headphone cable upgrade for the AB-1266, Superconductor HP, http://abyss-headphones.com/jps_labs_abyss_cables.html . You will find it to have quite noticeable sonic improvements combined with our higher-end cables, so much so that I highly doubt you will continue to look for a new DAC.


----------



## Yoga

joe skubinski said:


> I never mentioned 'different' high end interconnects.
> 
> You're on what I call the merry-go-round. Most audio aficionados reside here, keep swapping gear for other gear, inserting flaws to counter existing flaws, sooner or later finding balance but never _really_ happy, then as time goes on having to find a new component with similar flaws to the old to maintain that balance. The idea is to systematically eliminate these flaws, and cabling is a huge factor when you have a transducer intimate to the ear telling you like it is.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Do you have a UK supplier for these Joe? Interested in trying them.


----------



## David1961

@ Yoga,

I know The Music Room in Glasgow owned by Jack Lawson supplied JPS Labs gear.


----------



## Fririce0003

beolab said:


> So what DAC is your favourite then?




 At that level it's more down to personal preference than having an absolute best. But I'd say at the top of my list are the davinci, CAD and kalliope. Still yet to hear the nagra DAC.

 Also I wouldn't rule out silver, it's more down to implementation. The DHC cables are actually fuller in silver rather than the copper/silver fusion. With the spore4 silver compared to the spore4 fusion, you just get more sound all over, fuller, more dynamic and more detailed.


----------



## bmichels

fririce0003 said:


> At that level it's more down to personal preference than having an absolute best. But I'd say at the top of my list are the davinci, CAD and kalliope. Still yet to hear the nagra DAC.
> 
> Also I wouldn't rule out silver, it's more down to implementation. The DHC cables are actually fuller in silver rather than the copper/silver fusion. With the spore4 silver  compared to the spore4 fusion, you just get more sound all over, fuller, more dynamic and more detailed.


 
  
 So the "silver only" version (the spore4 silver) does not make the sound brighter than the mix copper+silver  (spore4 fusion) !  
  
 This is strange... but good news. ( I normally never dare to use "silver only" for this reason).


----------



## Joe Skubinski

I should add that the latest WA5 LE (August 2015) does sound very good. It has LOTS of power!



beolab said:


> I did tried a MSB Analog DAC and i liked it a lot, but i need even more warmth to the sound so maybe a Woo- Audio WA5 can solve the problem.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

david1961 said:


> @ Yoga,
> 
> I know The Music Room in Glasgow owned by Jack Lawson supplied JPS Labs gear.




^^^


----------



## isquirrel

bmichels said:


> So the "silver only" version (the spore4 silver) does not make the sound brighter than the mix copper+silver  (spore4 fusion) !
> 
> This is strange... but good news. ( I normally never dare to use "silver only" for this reason).


 

 No in fact to my surprise also, as I have never got on with silver cables before. In fact the opposite was true they sounded more lush and tonally richer from new than the Fusion Spore with Copper.


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


>


 
  
 I remember you mentioning that you had heard the new JPS lab superconductor cable at Addicted to Audio, what were your impressions and how would you describe them in comparison to the DHC silver cables?
  
 Next time I am in Melbourne must have a listen if they still have them.


----------



## Yoga

david1961 said:


> @ Yoga,
> 
> I know The Music Room in Glasgow owned by Jack Lawson supplied JPS Labs gear.


 

 Good call!


----------



## greekgod

beolab said:


> Im in a search for a small/medium sized DAC with more grunt, impact in the base than my current too neutral Chord Hugo im using today.
> 
> The Hugo are holding the bass back and get harsh :thumbsdown_tone1::thumbsdown_tone1::thumbsdown_tone1::thumbsdown_tone1:
> 
> Any suggestions for my Abyss?


 
 If you are willing to consider something big and expensive, I was very impressed by the Moon 780D. I heard it with a pair of Bowers & Wilkins speakers and the bass sounded like thunder. Their advertising states that is has a "greater sense of finesse, focus, bass slam, and control." If I had the money, I would buy one in a heartbeat.


----------



## Beolab

Was thinking of a Total DAC D1 balanced or a MSB Analog with upgraded power supply or a WooAudio WA5 to start with. 

I had a MSB Analog with base power home for audition and i liked the 3D combined with no grain and great soundstage, and more, but the AMP may be a better choice to upgrade first.


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## greekgod

I've heard the Abyss with just about every amp out there including the WooAudio WA5 and to be honest none of them gave the Abyss the bass slam that I hear everyone talking about. The Liquid Gold seemed to give it the most bass but still not enough to satisfy me. I wonder if the issue is that the Abyss is designed to be neutral and you need to eq the bass to get the slam you are looking for. If that doesn't work, you may want to consider trying some other headphones as well. Personally, I love the bass from the Fostex TH900 and Audeze LCD-4. Those headphones certainly don't have the 3D sound or sparkle of the Abyss but they do seem to have a more extended bass. Is there anyway you can make it to a future CanJam event so you can audition more equipment? It could minimize some of the guess work.


----------



## greekgod

If I was in your shoes and wanted to stick with the Abyss, I would get a Viva Egoista. It definitely won't give you the bass slam your are looking for but it does have the best overall sound I have heard by far. Getting the amp that has the best overall sound is more important than getting the amp that has the most bass slam. Then, I would enhance the bass with either a preamp that has tone controls, or download some eq software for your computer. If you are using itunes, it does have a bass boast feature. Then I would consider finding a dac that has more powerful bass.


----------



## Beolab

Thanks Geekgod ! 

I have a pretty powerful amp, but because of my location ( Sweden) i have no possibility to try before i buy , or make a audition btw headphone amps unfortunately. The High End market for headphones does exists but it is very small here. 

I have bin able to auditioned the Sim Audio Moon 430 Neo combined with Abyss and i did not have a better or more richness to the sound or any other significant SQ factor. 

Then my target was reaimed at WooAudio WA5, in the search for a little richer/warmer sound, but maybe this is not the right amp either. 

I have bought a 4pin - banana Moon Audio Silver cable adapter, so i could drive the phones with a speaker amp if you have any recomendations that can suit my taste?


----------



## greekgod

No problem. I'm always happy to help as much as I can. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The Viva Egoista is Italian so it should be better distributed in Europe than here in North America. It may even be worth a trip to Italy to have an audition. You could make a vacation out of it. 

 I know they had a CanJam in London, England recently. Perhaps, they will have another one in the future that you can go to. 

 I agree with you on the Moon 430. I am a huge fan of Moon speaker amps but their headphone amps disappointed me. I didn't like them at all. 

 I love WooAudio amps but I find that they pair much better with Sennheiser headphones than they do with the Abyss. 

 I've never experimented with that type of adapter so I can't help you there. But I can tell you that we seem to have similar taste and my favorite speakers amps are Moon Evolution, Bel Canto, and McIntosh.


----------



## mulder01

deuter said:


> I am not sure what experience you have had with high end DACs but for me always the DAC had made the most improvement in sound quality
> 
> 
> Rest is preference


 
  
 That is a common opinion, but personally, I haven't been able to hear any difference between dacs so far.  Last week I tried switching between my ipod classic and an AK100 (single dac) and AK120 (dual dac and 10 times the price of an ipod classic), and also between a chyper labs portable dac, a violectric v800 and a schiit yggy and I can confidently say I would fail a blind test.  Which is good, I suppose, because now I don't have to save up $4k for a yggy (which I expected to fall in love with).  If you go looking over in the sound science section of the forum they will tell you that on paper, there is no audible difference bewteen dacs provided they are designed properly and not deliberately made to change the sound in a certain way.  And from what I've personally heard so far, the theory is correct.  But of course, as always... ymmv 
  
  
 From the limited time I spent with the superconductor hp cables, I think I heard more of a difference in the cable upgrade than I did in the dac upgrade, but didn't really spend enough time with them to make a proper judgement.  But if I had to pick between a yggy or a cable upgrade based on that particular audition alone... I would probably go for the cables.
  
  
 I also a/b 'd between the Abyss and HE1000.  HE1000 is good, but it's not Abyss good.  A friend of mine who tried them both a week or so earlier agreed.  (I heard them both in their stock form on a Vio v281) To me, HEK seemed a little veiled and a bit lite on in the bass.  Also, I have a big head and it clamps relatively hard and started to get a little sore after a while (possibly not helped by the fact that I listened to a Final Sonorous not long before, and they clamp really quite hard).  I have been told though, that the HEK is more picky with upstream gear and the stock cables hold it back.  Which may be true, but I can only comment on what I tried.


----------



## Articnoise

beolab said:


> Thanks Geekgod !
> 
> I have a pretty powerful amp, but because of my location ( Sweden) i have no possibility to try before i buy , or make a audition btw headphone amps unfortunately. The High End market for headphones does exists but it is very small here.
> 
> ...


 
  

 I have been told that the VTL IT-85 is a good match if you want the Abyss a bit richer sounding.  They have both the Abyss and the VTL at Ljudmakaren in Stockholm.


----------



## Beolab

articnoise said:


> I have been told that the VTL IT-85 is a good match if you want the Abyss a bit richer sounding.  They have both the Abyss and the VTL at Ljudmakaren in Stockholm.




Thanks! 
Will have it a go if they have it in for demo.


----------



## Beolab

isquirrel said:


> No in fact to my surprise also, as I have never got on with silver cables before. In fact the opposite was true they sounded more lush and tonally richer from new than the Fusion Spore with Copper.




And going from stock Abyss JPS Labs cable to 4spore was a big improvement of the little dark reassessed midrange sound or was it domed to fix, and did it lighten up the sound overall, or how big was the difference?


----------



## greekgod

mulder01 said:


> That is a common opinion, but personally, I haven't been able to hear any difference between dacs so far.  Last week I tried switching between my ipod classic and an AK100 (single dac) and AK120 (dual dac and 10 times the price of an ipod classic), and also between a chyper labs portable dac, a violectric v800 and a schiit yggy and I can confidently say I would fail a blind test.  Which is good, I suppose, because now I don't have to save up $4k for a yggy (which I expected to fall in love with).  If you go looking over in the sound science section of the forum they will tell you that on paper, there is no audible difference bewteen dacs provided they are designed properly and not deliberately made to change the sound in a certain way.  And from what I've personally heard so far, the theory is correct.  But of course, as always... ymmv
> 
> 
> From the limited time I spent with the superconductor hp cables, I think I heard more of a difference in the cable upgrade than I did in the dac upgrade, but didn't really spend enough time with them to make a proper judgement.  But if I had to pick between a yggy or a cable upgrade based on that particular audition alone... I would probably go for the cables.


 

 I find that with dacs the difference isn't always immediately noticeable. It is only after an extended listening secession that I find myself being able to understand some lyrics that were previously incoherent. IMO, I would say that dacs make a 5% difference. The only cables that I have heard make a difference are the Wire World cables. The difference is small but noticeable. I would say they make a 1% difference and shouldn't be upgraded unless everything else in the system is as good as it can get.


----------



## Beolab

I agree on 1-3% diffrence with interconnect cables, but a DAC can change about 15-20% if you are going from a Iphone to a MSB Select. 
The Amp 20% and headphones/Speakers 60% .

This is not always like this, but i think it is a good thumb role maybe. 

But if we speak High End to Ultra high End, you need the hole chain has to be as good to not miss anything in resolution.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

For me, I find it is all relative...  I have a hard time saying the DAC is X% or the headphones are Y% and here's why (IMHO, YMMV).
  
 When I was using HD600 + SB Crack the DAC and cables made little to no difference.  When I switched to a SuSy Dyhani and DNA Stratus and HD800's all of a sudden the DAC, cables and power made a noticeable difference.  The difference being that the better amp and headphones revealed so much that the DAC and cables were able to shine though.
  
 Unless you have top shelf gear all the way though, I agree that the stuff "further away from your ears" matters less.  But when everything is revealing, it does matter.  That said, what always gets me is people talking about how a $900 USB cable made their $199 DAC/amp combo into their $99 headphones made all the difference in the world...  Somehow, I don't think so.
  
 I do, however, agree that a DAC will add more subtle changes than, say, headphones, to the sound signature.  I have a hard time immediately hearing the differences in DAC's, but if I sit down, get to know a DAC and then switch it out, the changes are apparent.
  
 Finally, something that @isquirrel said to me a while back made a profound amount of sense: he has spent decades as a student learning _how _to listen.  He has been taught by many industry leaders on what and how to critically listen.  He treats listing like a skill that he is developing.  I personally never even considered looking at things in that light.  It certainly stands to reason that people who have an education in critical listening would be more proficient in it than the average person here.


----------



## greekgod

bigfatpaulie, that is a very valid point. I agree that the more resolution your equipment can resolve then the bigger the difference your dac and cables will make.  It is more proof that the dac and cables should be the last thing to upgrade. 

 I can relate to your last paragraph. My degree is in fine arts so I am trained to be able to see color accuracy much more than the average person. I find this allows me to easily see the differences between televisions where others cannot.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

greekgod said:


> I can relate to your last paragraph. My degree is in fine arts so I am trained to be able to see color accuracy much more than the average person. I find this allows me to easily see the differences between televisions where others cannot.


 
  
 That's fascinating and exactly to my message!  Everyone (aside colour blind people) sees colour just fine but someone with training would have a much more astute perception of it.  I find that so interesting because I personally never considered someone being able to better perceive colour, but it absolutely makes sense; like a sommelier would be better at picking out tasting notes.


----------



## mulder01

Training your ears would be a very good idea if you were reviewing or selling equipment etc. but I just listen to music for enjoyment in my spare time. I'm sure the difference between dacs is there, but so is the cost. If you go from a $2k headphone to an abyss, the jump up in quality slaps you in the face. But spend an additional $4k on a dac, and you have to train yourself, and really concentrate in a quiet room and live with it for a while. Then after time you can notice subtle differences. This is why it has always made me wonder why so many people will drop $,000's on a dac but won't touch the Abyss because it costs too much even though your money goes much further upgrading the headphone part of your system than the dac part...

Need to make a signature that says
IMO


----------



## deuter

mulder01 said:


> Training your ears would be a very good idea if you were reviewing or selling equipment etc. but I just listen to music for enjoyment in my spare time. I'm sure the difference between dacs is there, but so is the cost. If you go from a $2k headphone to an abyss, the jump up in quality slaps you in the face. But spend an additional $4k on a dac, and you have to train yourself, and really concentrate in a quiet room and live with it for a while. Then after time you can notice subtle differences. This is why it has always made me wonder why so many people will drop $,000's on a dac but won't touch the Abyss because it costs too much even though your money goes much further upgrading the headphone part of your system than the dac part...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 



I fell you need a lot of IMO in that last post, just re read it and you'll understand. 

Without getting controversial all I will say is its preference not price, but if you are happy with your headphones then there is no reason to keep justifying to yourself. 
Don't forget it's only a tool to listen to music! 

Enjoy the warm weather and play some sweet tunes.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

mulder01 said:


> Training your ears would be a very good idea if you were reviewing or selling equipment etc. but I just listen to music for enjoyment in my spare time. I'm sure the difference between dacs is there, but so is the cost. If you go from a $2k headphone to an abyss, the jump up in quality slaps you in the face. But spend an additional $4k on a dac, and you have to train yourself, and really concentrate in a quiet room and live with it for a while. Then after time you can notice subtle differences. This is why it has always made me wonder why so many people will drop $,000's on a dac but won't touch the Abyss because it costs too much even though your money goes much further upgrading the headphone part of your system than the dac part...
> 
> Need to make a signature that says
> IMO


 
  
 My sentiment may have been lost....  
  
 To return to my example of a sommelier: if you were having a nice dinner at a restaurant you could peruse the wine list and pick a wine from the list that you could make an educated guess on what would be good (eg, I like South American Malbec's), and I'm sure it it would just fine with your main course.  If, however, you asked for the consult of the sommelier, they would recommended something based on a more intimate knowledge of both your meal and the wine and the over-all experience would be more rounded and have better continuity - even to the laymen.  
  
 In both cases I'm sure you would enjoy you dinner, but in the latter it would have that je ne sai quoi.
  
 I believe that's what people refer to an "synergy" when talking about audio.
  
 In addition to that, some people aren't as discerning: why spend more than $15 on a bottle of wine?  My sister in law will openly say that she hears no difference between TV speakers and a full 5.1 surround system (but she is an EXTREME case).  To some people, the refinements that a high-end DAC or cables offer are lost and simply non-existent.  That's okay too.  In many ways, those people are the lucky ones.
  
 You point to diminishing returns runs true, IMO, and it can be a hard pill to justify. 
  
 But this is all purely based on my conjecture.  Maybe someone like Joe or isquirrel or another member better versed in this than I can extend the dialog.  
  
 The truth is out there my friend.


----------



## greekgod

This discussion about wine reminds me of an article that I read a while back. In blind taste tests, the average person almost always picks the cheaper wine as tasting the best. But in that same blind test, experienced wine aficionados picked the expensive wines as tasting the best. They were able to appreciate the difference as a result of many years of learning how to know what to taste for. The same thing really applies to audio. When I tell people how much my gear costs and why, they think I'm nuts...lol.


----------



## Beolab

Im about to place an order on a black MSB Analog or a Chord DAVE. 

I want to read some reviews on DAVE before i decide wich one it would be that suite my personal taste best. 

Im a reseller of MSB and Chord Electronics , so i know the 3D like analog sound of the MSB, and i like it! The only slight "weakness" is on the richness and final ultra precision in detailed resolution. Other than that i think it play very niceley together with my Abyss. 
I have also tryed the MSB Signature V and i thaugt it got more precision and stringed instruments like guitars feels like they are presented with more texture in both a good and bad way, because the Analog are more liquid in that area, and the taste is devided, i think i like liquid mids insted of wooden mids if you are going to listen for more than a half a hour a time. 

So my Hugo will find a new home in my BMW


----------



## greekgod

I'm guessing the Dave would have a similar sound signature to the Hugo but probably with more resolution and features. If I was you, I would go with the MSB Analog. They have some cool custom colors that you can order.


----------



## Beolab

MSB sit on top of the list , and if Jonathan Goodman at MSB him self have a Analog Dac at home as he told me for private use and no other, i think it will due for me also. Maybe


----------



## up late

bigfatpaulie said:


> For me, I find it is all relative...  I have a hard time saying the DAC is X% or the headphones are Y% and here's why (IMHO, YMMV).
> 
> When I was using HD600 + SB Crack the DAC and cables made little to no difference.  When I switched to a SuSy Dyhani and DNA Stratus and HD800's all of a sudden the DAC, cables and power made a noticeable difference.  The difference being that the better amp and headphones revealed so much that the DAC and cables were able to shine though.
> 
> ...




a reality check for audiophiles, reviewers and their trained ears 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56xPMqZmejU&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## mulder01

deuter said:


> I fell you need a lot of IMO in that last post, just re read it and you'll understand.
> 
> Without getting controversial all I will say is its preference not price, but if you are happy with your headphones then there is no reason to keep justifying to yourself.
> Don't forget it's only a tool to listen to music!
> ...


 
  
 Well, obviously I agree with me and you agree with you so I'm not sure what you're trying to say by asking me to read what I said...
  
 I'm not trying to justify costs, I'm saying that there's more bang for your buck in the headphone department than the dac department.  Considerably more.  You say I'm wrong.  I say you're crazy.  I guess we can leave it at that. I'm just saying, if someone owned an LCD2 and had a few $,000 to spend, I would say upgrade to an LCD3, rather than upgrade your dac.  For the same money, you would get a much better system with a headphone upgrade.  If you disagree then that's fine.  Everyone's allowed to share their impressions.
  
 In terms of appreciating fine wines etc. I definitely understand your point, but I feel like on head fi there is way too much excitement and focus on dacs for an audience that largely is unable to appreciate something at such a fine level.  Especially when the other gear in the system isn't at a level to fully take advantage of those subtle differences.


----------



## vc1187

mulder01 said:


> I'm not trying to justify costs, *I'm saying that there's more bang for your buck in the headphone department than the dac department*.  Considerably more.  You say I'm wrong.  I say you're crazy.  I guess we can leave it at that. I'm just saying, if someone owned an LCD2 and had a few $,000 to spend, I would say upgrade to an LCD3, rather than upgrade your dac.  For the same money, you would get a much better system with a headphone upgrade.  If you disagree then that's fine.  Everyone's allowed to share their impressions.


 
 This greatly depends on your definition of 'bang for your buck'.  If you're talking about drastic and noticeable audible differences, then yes, I agree.
  
 However, if you're talking about _improvement_, this is where preference and subjectivity matter.
  
 Take for example:  Someone that is new to head-fi decides to go to a meet and hears the HD800 on a system that generates the sound that he/she falls in love with.  This person decides to buy the HD800, but pairs it with a DAC that doesn't produce the same or similar sound as what they heard at the meet.  Suddenly, the HD800 is not enjoyable to this person.  Knowing that they were once able to enjoy the sound of the HD800, this individual considers it their reference pair of headphones and realizes that it's likely something upstream that is affecting their ability to enjoy the HD800 as much as they did at the meet.  Now if the advice you give to this person is to change their headphones to something like a JPS Labs Abyss... well I think you see why the statement I placed in bold from your post is really a largely generalized statement.  Yes yes, I did use one of the most extreme cases, as I am one of those who thinks the HD800 is one of the most transparent headphones on the market, but there are many other valid examples of why this is an over-generalized statement.
  
 I will agree though that if the sound signature of a pair of headphones is very different from your personal preferences, the best bang for your buck in this case is to switch headphones to something closer to what you'd consider perfect, rather than trying to drastically modify a pair of headphones by means of dac or amp in order to meet your preference.
  
 Always remember, what may be subtle to you may be (audio)world changing for someone else!  Just my 2 cents.


----------



## matthewhypolite

In my experience change in Headphones had the biggest impact on the sound. DACs and Amp upgrades served to refine and enhance what was already there, but not at the percentage of a change in headphone would do. Even using flagship cans. Switching between the HEK and Abyss for instance, there is a huge different between the 2. They are radically different to my ears.
  
 I should have the LAu arriving soon, which i'll compare to the dark star and see how much of a different that really makes. I'm sure it will be a lot harder to tell the different between 2 high end dacs / amps as opposed to different high end headphones. My goal is to build a nice solid core system, then spend my rest of time / money exploring various headphones. At the moment that core system will be "LAu + Yggy" or "LAu+CAD DAC" At which point I would not worry about my source and amp gear for a really long time, and spend my $ grabbing other cans, like LCD4 etc.


----------



## Articnoise

The most important thing for me is to get a setup that have a good balance. So I always trying to change the current bottleneck that is holding things back the most. This can be either in technicalities or in tonality. I think that ones you have reached a certain SQ level both amps, sources, transducers, DACs, power gear and cables can all be the bottleneck that gives the best bang for the buck if you change.


----------



## mulder01

vc1187 said:


> This greatly depends on your definition of 'bang for your buck'.  If you're talking about drastic and noticeable audible differences, then yes, I agree.
> 
> However, if you're talking about _improvement_, this is where preference and subjectivity matter.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not saying everyone has to rush out an buy an Abyss over their current headphone.  HD800 in particular is a bit of a different beast that has it's dedicated fans and if I can believe what I've read, the 009 would probably be more up their alley, so if someone with a HD800 setup was looking to upgrade their rig with something like an msb analog and power base, I would say their money would be better off going toward an entry level 009 rig which they can upgrade even further over the years if they wish, rather than spending thousands upon thousands maxing out their hd800 setup.  Their dollar would go a lot further spent in other areas of their setup.  IMO dac is something you get to squeeze every last drop out of what you've got, and you pay quite the premium for those last few drops.
  
 Also, I realise members like fririce and isquirrel are very dac focused but their systems are at a point where there aren't really any possible upgrades as far as the rest of their rigs are concerned and from the way they describe sound, they probably listen more carefully than 95% of people on here, so I can totally understand that.  If I can use another analogy, if a car is like a headphone and your engine upgrades are like amp upgrades then the dac would be the tyres.  High performance tyres are important on a highly tuned machine, but when people go putting $10,000 tyres on a $1,000 car, sure it's now technically more capable on paper, but why would you bother?  And then people argue that "Well they're the most important part because without good tyres your car will just slide right off the road."   Which is true on a v8 supercar, but not on your family wagon.  And if your'e not happy with the performance of your car, chances are, new tyres are not the answer.


----------



## Sorrodje

mulder01 said:


> HD800 in particular is a bit of a different beast that has it's dedicated fans and if I can believe what I've read, the 009 would probably be more up their alley, so if someone with a HD800 setup was looking to upgrade their rig with something like an msb analog and power base, I would say their money would be better off going toward an entry level 009 rig which they can upgrade even further over the years if they wish, rather than spending thousands upon thousands maxing out their hd800 setup.


 
  
 We all know this is not that true.  Many owners go back and forth from SR009 to HD800 and prefer the one or the other depending of what gear they use with  DAC included ! .  For sure, for all "end game" headphones I know, the whole system matters.  HD800 , Abyss , SR009 are from those headphones.


----------



## David1961

mulder01 said:


> This is why it has always made me wonder why so many people will drop $,000's on a dac but won't touch the Abyss because it costs too much even though your money goes much further upgrading the headphone part of your system than the dac part...




The reason why I'd never get an Abyss is because of it's looks, which reminds me of a 'G ' Clamp. 
With that said, how many are going to wear a ' G ' Clamp on their head ?


----------



## up late

we're well aware of what you think of the abyss david


----------



## Yoga

david1961 said:


> The reason why I'd never get an Abyss is because of it's looks, which reminds me of a 'G ' Clamp.
> With that said, how many are going to wear a ' G ' Clamp on their head ?


 

 Because when you're at home, alone, listening to music, looks are really important. Right? :¬)


----------



## David1961

up late said:


> we're well aware of what you think of the abyss david




Mulder01 is wondering why many will spend a lot on a DAC ( which I would ), but won't touch the Abyss ( which I won't ).
I've given the reason why I won't, and I assume I'm not the only one that thinks it's butt ugly.

@ Yoga,

 Not just headphones, I want all my audio equipment to look nice, which is why I put another headband on my 009's because I didn't like the original, however if others want to spend $5500 to look ( IMO ) a Dork, then that's their choice.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

david1961 said:


> Mulder01 is wondering why many will spend a lot on a DAC ( which I would ), but won't touch the Abyss ( which I won't ).
> I've given the reason why I won't, and I assume I'm not the only one that thinks it's butt ugly.
> 
> @ Yoga,
> ...


 
  
 Shots fired!!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

You can choose to be a follower or a trend setter.... I prefer the latter.


----------



## mulder01

lol David you just have to pop your head in every now and again and remind everyone how you think they look...
  
 I'll repeat again, I'm not saying everyone has to like the Abyss the best, but you have bought your endgame headphone and built the system around that.  Weather it be the 009 or hek or abyss it doesnt matter.  If some folk like the HD800 above all others then that is their engame headphone and that's fine too.  I just think there are a lot of people out there spending big bucks on a dac before they get the rest of their gear up to where it could be, and in that case I think it's a a waste.  
  
 ...Especially when you could get something like, oh, I dunno, an ABYSS for the same money...... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 What do you think David?
 lol just stirring don't answer that


----------



## Yoga

Note to self: don't feed the trolls.


----------



## up late

and it's not like he's telling us anything we don't already know. it has been a while tho so maybe we were overdue for a reminder.


----------



## Beolab

OT: Any news about the "wife" DIANA yet? 

Could be a sweet baby next year perhaps: 
A mixture of a monster (Abyss) and a hot Milf (DIANA) named: DINO


----------



## David1961

If Mulder01 hadn't written in that post I replied to, ' wonder why some will spend $4,000 on a DAC, but won't touch an Abyss ', or something like that, then I wouldn't have wrote what I did.


----------



## mulder01

For the 35th time, it doesn't have to be an Abyss. I was talking about top teir headphones in general, but the Abyss is my personal choice. 

If we're gonna start firing shots, wearing an Abyss can't be too much more dorky than pretending to own something made of carbon fibre.


----------



## David1961

mulder01 said:


> For the 35th time, it doesn't have to be an Abyss. I was talking about top teir headphones in general, but the Abyss is my personal choice.
> 
> If we're gonna start firing shots, wearing an Abyss can't be too much more dorky than pretending to own something made of carbon fibre.


 

 It's funny, but I've had a few PM's asking if I'd do them a headband just like the one I did on my 009's, so they like me must prefer the look of it to the stax band, also, when I first did that headband I used leather, but I preferred the Carbon Fibre look which is just wrapping.
  
 Now if you love the look of your Abyss so much, then post a photo of yourself wearing them, and stop writing posts wondering why some won't touch one, that way I won't feel the need to write on this thread again, which Abyss lovers will be happy to hear.


----------



## mulder01

Absolutely, the look of the Abyss is polarizing - that's not the argument.  The two sides of the camp are "who cares - just listen to them" and "I'm too stylish for these and everyone needs to know"
  
 Actually, that's not the argument either.  The argument was more along the lines of that headphone upgrades were more worthwhile per dollar than dac upgrades, so why not buy a top tier headphone instead (AGAIN, DOESN'T HAVE TO BE AN ABYSS), but every time you pop your head in on this thread we end up back in the same spot.  We know they're not a normal looking headphone.  We don't care.


----------



## mulder01

I just had another look at your 009 headband mod and noticed that stax use the whole upper frame and lower suspension headband idea (so does the new hifiman) which you are clearly not a fan of, so what's stopping you from doing exactly the same thing to an Abyss? You could probaby even use the same headband but just change the little ally blocks at the end to take the abyss drivers which just screw on? Problem solved.

Also a few photos of abysses being worn have been posted in the last few pages if you check recent images.


----------



## up late

david1961 said:


> Now if you love the look of your Abyss so much, then post a photo of yourself wearing them, and stop writing posts wondering why some won't touch one, that way I won't feel the need to write on this thread again, which Abyss lovers will be happy to hear.




this is not cool. you've repeatedly made your opinion known about the abyss's appearance in this thread and it's uncalled for. you really should cut the thread crapping and move on before the mods help you on your way.


----------



## David1961

mulder01 said:


> I just had another look at your 009 headband mod and noticed that stax use the whole upper frame and lower suspension headband idea (so does the new hifiman) which you are clearly not a fan of, so what's stopping you from doing exactly the same thing to an Abyss? You could probaby even use the same headband but just change the little ally blocks at the end to take the abyss drivers which just screw on? Problem solved.
> 
> Also a few photos of abysses being worn have been posted in the last few pages if you check recent images.




I've mention before that the headband on my 009's, couldn't be done on the Abyss, well at least not by me.
But look, these posts are going nowhere, so I'll just stop posting on this thread, which for that to happen it's best no-one writes posts prompting me into replying.

I'll finish this last post of mine on this thread by saying, if the mods decided to ban me, then so be it.


----------



## up late

lol! so we have to exercise the self-control that you can't.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Thanks for this David1961! Glad to hear you've matured enough to move on, geez...

BTW, Mike from HiFi Insider did a very nice video review on the AB-1266...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QSQ67y5gIo


----------



## Beolab

Nice video for new potential buyers  

Can tell us a little about the sound carachtere of DIANA , who much will they differ from tje Abyss sound? 

More push in the mids or what is your gole for it Joe?

Very intresting and i will buy a pair later!


----------



## David1961

up late said:


> lol! so we have to exercise the self-control that you can't.




I knew there'd be at least one, but from an Abyss lover I expected that.


----------



## up late

lol! i'm not an "abyss lover" - don't even own one. just think you should know when to quit trashing this headphone without folks in this thread (including the designer and manufacturer) having to tell you. come back when you've got something new to say ok?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Please stop...  Please.
  
 Can we talk about the Abyss now?
  
 I am having a bit of a fit issue and I was wondering if anyone else has the same problem and was able to somehow resolve it.  They are sitting to 'low' on my head, like the ear pads are pushing down on the tops of my ears.  If I hold the top "cross bar" and pull it up a bit, they are much more comfortable, but when I let go they fall again.  I feel like if the leather strip with the name "ABYSS" on it was shorter it would fix the fit issue for me.  Has anyone else found this?  Any suggestions on how to fix this?


----------



## Yoga

bigfatpaulie said:


> Please stop...  Please.
> 
> Can we talk about the Abyss now?
> 
> I am having a bit of a fit issue and I was wondering if anyone else has the same problem and was able to somehow resolve it.  They are sitting to 'low' on my head, like the ear pads are pushing down on the tops of my ears.  If I hold the top "cross bar" and pull it up a bit, they are much more comfortable, but when I let go they fall again.  I feel like if the leather strip with the name "ABYSS" on it was shorter it would fix the fit issue for me.  Has anyone else found this?  Any suggestions on how to fix this?


 

 Perhaps place some foam (or equivalent) across the underside of the headband?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

yoga said:


> Perhaps place some foam (or equivalent) across the underside of the headband?


 
  
 That's what I'm thinking...  Or something between the soft headband and hard headband.  I'm not not sure what kind of foam, however.
  
 Another though I had was to effectively make the rubber elastics on the leather band shorter by somehow building up the loops they hook onto.


----------



## Yoga

bigfatpaulie said:


> That's what I'm thinking...  Or something between the soft headband and hard headband.  I'm not not sure what kind of foam, however.
> 
> Another though I had was to effectively make the rubber elastics on the leather band shorter by somehow building up the loops they hook onto.


 
  
  
 Just figured it out - twist the headband 360 degrees!
  
 Shortens the stiffens the cables. Makes quite a difference.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Like do a barrel roll with the leather one or...?


----------



## Yoga

bigfatpaulie said:


> Like do a barrel roll with the leather one or...?


 

 Yes, so the Abyss logo on the leather band flips over.
  
 1 twist = 180 degree turn.
  
 2-3 twists (360 and 520 degrees) makes a big difference. Just balance it on your finger to test the gap it leaves below the top metal band.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

That's a very elegant solution - Thank you.
  
 My only concern is will this damage the elastics?


----------



## Yoga

Abyss trick to shorten the drop distance of the headband (so the cans sit higher on the head) - *twist the headband*.
  
*Normal*
  

  
  
*2 Twists (360)*
  

  
  
*4 Twists (720)*
  

  
  
 Handy!


----------



## Yoga

They look and feel strong to me.

@Joe Skubinski - your opinion? (The above post is a trick to get the Abyss to sit higher on the head - will it damage the elastic?)


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Maybe it's a placebo but I think it has improved the sound - I guess because the drivers are better aligned with my ears now?


----------



## Yoga

bigfatpaulie said:


> Maybe it's a placebo but I think it has improved the sound - I guess because the drivers are better aligned with my ears now?


 

 Absolutely. All you need do is wear them as before (no twists) and push/pull them up/down to hear the impact on sound.
  
 The sound changes a lot when aligned properly - clearer mids, better treble and wider stage.
  
 It's a shame so many try these cans without getting them setup 100% correctly. The differences are huge. Far more than swapping dacs out and whatnot.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

I just noticed the photos of it - haha!!  Thank you!
  
 Yes, they are very sensitive to fit issues, though they never sounded sub-par


----------



## Yoga

bigfatpaulie said:


> I just noticed the photos of it - haha!!  Thank you!
> 
> Yes, they are very sensitive to fit issues, though they never sounded sub-par


 

 Most welcome :¬)
  
 Agreed. It's the people with top ears that need to spend the time, as those nuances are more pronounced (more so than with my own ears).


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Twisting sounds like a great solution, thanks for the pictures! We do have headbands with shorter bands available for people with narrow heads. The other solution is to adjust the headband wider which increases tension and raises height. You can pull the headband adjust out, and as in our set-up video bend the aluminum corners inward slightly to bring the pads closer to your head at the bottoms.


----------



## Kiats

Joe, perhaps you may want to consider using a different elastic for the headband. This is probably the second headband in the past 2 or so years that I have had snap on me. I'm not sure if there's something you could use but I thought I would bring it up for your consideration.


----------



## astrostar59

mulder01 said:


> lol David you just have to pop your head in every now and again and remind everyone how you think they look...
> 
> I'll repeat again, I'm not saying everyone has to like the Abyss the best, but you have bought your endgame headphone and built the system around that.  Weather it be the 009 or hek or abyss it doesnt matter.  If some folk like the HD800 above all others then that is their engame headphone and that's fine too.  I just think there are a lot of people out there spending big bucks on a dac before they get the rest of their gear up to where it could be, and in that case I think it's a a waste.
> 
> ...


 
 I can see your point, and I agree with you. I would also say (possibly) the HD800, the Abyss and the 009 are at the top of the tree depending on your taste and which you heard first, then blew your cash. I respect that. BUT I do say you need a really good source to get the best out of those headphones, plus a really good amp as well. Nobody can realistically say otherwise. Putting a 50K speaker equivalent (IMO) headphone on the end of a 'budget' or 'lower performing' source and amp will only make the headphone reveal those weaknesses and you get back on the buy / sell again. 
  
 I can't say about the sound quality of the Abyss, but I do know it is heavier than 009, which is heavy enough for my neck after a full days use. I also imagine I would have fit issues with that headband design. But as I said, I have already blown my cash and gone down the KGSSHv - 009 route, I am happy, and I am sure there are happy Abyss guys out there as well.
 Maybe we should all respect each other and just get on with it?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

kiats said:


> Joe, perhaps you may want to consider using a different elastic for the headband. This is probably the second headband in the past 2 or so years that I have had snap on me. I'm not sure if there's something you could use but I thought I would bring it up for your consideration.


 
  
  
 This is EXACTLY what I am worried about and want to minimize my risk of.


----------



## Beolab

joe skubinski said:


> Twisting sounds like a great solution, thanks for the pictures! We do have headbands with shorter bands available for people with narrow heads. The other solution is to adjust the headband wider which increases tension and raises height. You can pull the headband adjust out, and as in our set-up video bend the aluminum corners inward slightly to bring the pads closer to your head at the bottoms.




Can we order new headband and earpads from JPS Labs homepage or just e-mail you? 

@Joe 
Whats the price for a new Headband respectively the price for a set of new Earpads ?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

beolab said:


> Can we order new headband and earpads from JPS Labs homepage or just e-mail you?
> 
> @Joe
> Whats the price for a new Headband respectively the price for a set of new Earpads ?


 
  
 I'd like to know as well.
  
 Also, does anyone do anything to take care of the leather?  If so, what do you use?


----------



## isquirrel

New Abyss owner today, 2nd time around


----------



## bigfatpaulie

isquirrel said:


> New Abyss owner today, 2nd time around


 
  
 Woah!!  Let me just check to see if I can see a pig flying by my window 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The He1k's aren't fitting the bill anymore?


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> New Abyss owner today, 2nd time around


 

 Back in black :¬)
  
@Joe Skubinski  - Can I order a smaller headband through you? Would rather do that than bend the bars.


----------



## isquirrel

haha, I had been developing this nagging doubt in the back of my mind. "Had done the right thing"? Then I reflected on my Audio Journal, it seems clear to me that I had a very enjoyable six months of Abyss ownership so what had changed so quickly, not only for myself but for others as well. Several friends had also sold their Abyss in favour of the HEK. After I had reflected on this I thought well it couldn't of been that bad otherwise I wouldn't have got 6 months of enjoyable use out of it. A number of things have changed in my system so I thought it was time to give it another go. 
  
 I discussed it with a few "friends" some of whom are well known to these forums, Roy feelings are pretty strong about it, but on the other hand some other season industry pro's like Jack Woo felt I had made a mistake. So 1st up to admit it and we will see. I am going to only listen to the Abyss to get used to the fit faster again.
  
 I wish I had a smaller headband, looking forward to Joe's response.


----------



## hpz

Hmm very interested in a shorter and slightly wider headband. This way I could bend them in slightly more and still keep a relatively similar width.

As a side note, once I get home I will also show you guys how I have modded the suspension headband to get better comfort + adjustability.


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> haha, I had been developing this nagging doubt in the back of my mind. "Had done the right thing"? Then I reflected on my Audio Journal, it seems clear to me that I had a very enjoyable six months of Abyss ownership so what had changed so quickly, not only for myself but for others as well. Several friends had also sold their Abyss in favour of the HEK. After I had reflected on this I thought well it couldn't of been that bad otherwise I wouldn't have got 6 months of enjoyable use out of it. A number of things have changed in my system so I thought it was time to give it another go.
> 
> I discussed it with a few "friends" some of whom are well known to these forums, Roy feelings are pretty strong about it, but on the other hand some other season industry pro's like Jack Woo felt I had made a mistake. So 1st up to admit it and we will see. I am going to only listen to the Abyss to get used to the fit faster again.
> 
> I wish I had a smaller headband, looking forward to Joe's response.


 

 Most certainly a personal choice. The Abyss got zero points at Tyll's Big Sound 2015. How much of that was due to poor fitting I don't know, but either way, I couldn't care less, end game cans for me :¬)

 All I need now is another DAC and tube amp *grin*.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

yoga said:


> Most certainly a personal choice. The Abyss got zero points at Tyll's Big Sound 2015. How much of that was due to poor fitting I don't know, but either way, I couldn't care less, end game cans for me :¬)
> 
> All I need now is another DAC and tube amp *grin*.


 
  
 Trouble in paradise?   I though the 430 + AB-1266's was bliss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm just kidding 
  
 What were you considering if you don't me my asking.
  
 I would also like to point out that although Tyll listed the Abyss as the worst of the best, he also doesn't know when to use "a" vs "an" or "its" vs "it's" and so on.  For a professional site, it really needs a good proof read.
  
  
  
 (Sorry, Tyll   I actually do really like you.)


----------



## Yoga

bigfatpaulie said:


> Trouble in paradise?   I though the 430 + AB-1266's was bliss


 
  
 Haha! No not at all, I'm actually incredibly happy. I'm going to look into tubes and top end DACs now purely out of interest, to see if they offer that much more to me personally.
  
 Needs to be done at home, with time for blind A/B tests.
  
 The DAC list: CAD 1543, TotalDAC d1-dual, MSB Analog (with Quad and power base).
  
 I'll be using the 430 as the amp. Perhaps later I'll look at tubes; Woo WA5 (new one), Woo 234, EC Studio and VIVA Egoista. Negura has the EC 2A3 which will make a nice comparison.

 I have a feeling the TotalDAC + Egoista will be damn good for the Abyss. Same as CAD + WA5 / 234. 
  
 The DAC will have to make a serious difference, one I can't live without (which is what the Abyss did to me after comparing to LCD-3F / X, HEK), as I'm also looking at 600+cc bikes. You can get a top, top bike for the cost one of these DACs, so I'm looking for substantial gains over the internal 430 HAD DAC.


----------



## up late

bigfatpaulie said:


> I would also like to point out that although Tyll listed the Abyss as the worst of the best, he also doesn't know when to use "a" vs "an" or "its" vs "it's" and so on.  For a professional site, it really needs a good proof read.
> 
> 
> 
> (Sorry, Tyll   I actually do really like you.)




i happen to agree with tyll's assessment of the abyss despite the typos


----------



## greekgod

Yoga, I'm a big fan of Moon speaker amps but the 430 was the amp that I liked the least when paired with the Abyss. The Viva Egoista is just so much more incredible. A night and day difference. I think you will be amazed by the upgrade if you decide to go that route.


----------



## greekgod

Seriously, you have not really heard the Abyss until you have heard it with the Egoista.


----------



## Beolab

yoga said:


> Most certainly a personal choice. The Abyss got zero points at Tyll's Big Sound 2015. How much of that was due to poor fitting I don't know, but either way, I couldn't care less, end game cans for me :¬)
> 
> 
> All I need now is another DAC and tube amp *grin*.




The hole test divided in 3 different parts: 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/category/big-sound-2015

I listen to Audize LCD 3 , HD800, Stax 007 MkI and HE1K in last week, and yes the Abyss are very sensitive to find a perfect position on the head, and have a U shaped curve with recessed midrange, and can be a little harsh i the treble / upper mids mostly on lean/harsh Rock tracks, but when you give them good recorded material, i can not see any other headphone that can come near them with the ultra fast 3D speed ni the treble, with the highest quality base that poses ultra dynamic dept. And its very easy to listen to them, with better soundstage and almost the same image-in as HD800. 

So overall i think its wiping the floor with them all. I have to say i like the Stax 007 MkII also but it is a different more nasal sound signature if you compare with the Abyss.

Should also be very interesting to hear the Diana when they see the daylight next year


----------



## Joe Skubinski

In reference to a more taught, shorter leather headband to raise the height of the pads on the ears, if you PM me I can elaborate on cost, availability, etc. 

The aluminum portion we do not machine differing lengths. We have reformed a few AB-1266's for guys who have very wide heads, as in no headphone would properly fit, in other words this is not a necessary modification as there are almost always other ways to compensate fit.

If you have a fit issue, send me a selfie wearing the headphone so I can see the top adjustment and front fit of pads to your head, and I can offer suggestions from there.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

I remember exhibiting at a Stereophile show in San Francisco, I believe in 1998, and running into Tyll who at the time was owner of the now defunct Headroom. After show hours we were at the bar across the street with a group of guys, and he was excitingly banging away on a laptop reporting to an early form of internet about the show.

Tyll's assessments are based on his objective experience with headphones, which no one disputes as vast. His assessments however have a U shaped curve with a large dip in the long-term, high-end, two channel subjective listening region. You could say he's been doing the headphone measurement thing so long that he's a bit inflexible when it comes to anything outside his personal window or norm, and that's cool so long as you know Tyll.. 


The AB-1266 was obviously not designed to be a typical headphone, rather to address issues with the sound of headphones that we felt needed to be resolved. Being a long time two channel connoisseur, the AB-1266 design was all about performance, in comparison not to other headphones, rather to compliment decades of listening experience to very-well-tuned, high-end speaker systems. 

*The AB-1266 mimics crazy expensive systems and rooms that would take the average listener years to evolve.*

In the world of high-end two channel speaker systems, changes are made over years to fine tune a system to be the ultimate personal experience, and it's often noted the system begins with the best loudspeakers you can afford. 
In head-fi, users are accustomed to thinking you can just pop the cans on your head and you're good to go. World class music reproduction (or recording) does not come to you in 15 minutes, it takes a willingness to tune the system to fit your tastes, just as with loudspeakers in a room (which btw are infinitely more difficult to get right). 

System set-up takes patience, an open mind, and a bit of cash. In the end the rewards are great- This as opposed to constant gear swapping..if you do it long enough you will find yourself years later coming full circle, having a similar sound you once had in the past. Talk about kicking yourself in the ass.






up late said:


> i happen to agree with tyll's assessment of the abyss despite the typos


----------



## up late

tyll's assessments of headphones are based on his subjective listening impressions and his objective measurements.

whether or not the abyss achieves your goal of mimicking "crazy expensive" full-sized two channel sound systems is in the ears of the beholder. it still sounded like a headphone to me tho an impressive one to be sure.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

They're one in the same.


----------



## up late

what do you mean by that?


----------



## edwardsean

I think he means that "objective" measurements are still taken by subjects with subjective impressions and cannot be neatly separated, no?


----------



## up late

um, no. well, i hope that's not what he meant anyways.


----------



## mulder01

^ lol with the same avatar it looks like you're talking to yourself 
  
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> I can see your point, and I agree with you. I would also say (possibly) the HD800, the Abyss and the 009 are at the top of the tree depending on your taste and which you heard first, then blew your cash. I respect that. BUT I do say you need a really good source to get the best out of those headphones, plus a really good amp as well. Nobody can realistically say otherwise. Putting a 50K speaker equivalent (IMO) headphone on the end of a 'budget' or 'lower performing' source and amp will only make the headphone reveal those weaknesses and you get back on the buy / sell again.
> 
> I can't say about the sound quality of the Abyss, but I do know it is heavier than 009, which is heavy enough for my neck after a full days use. I also imagine I would have fit issues with that headband design. But as I said, I have already blown my cash and gone down the KGSSHv - 009 route, I am happy, and I am sure there are happy Abyss guys out there as well.
> Maybe we should all respect each other and just get on with it?


 
  
 I think we are actually agreeing with eachother here - you have your top tier headphones to build a system around.  Some people hear the "It's all about the source" comments and get a super duper whiz-bang expensive dac for their 'pretty good'? headphones.  Which is what I was referring to.  Also, I never once said a bad word about the 009 - I totally respect that choice.
  
 I suppose another example would be if you had a $20k pair of speakers, (reasonable amp) and a $2k dac, that system would blow the pants off a system with a $20k dac, (reasonable amp) and 2k speakers... But if you already have your $20k speakers, then by all means go for the nice dac too, but don't prioritize it over the speakers/headphones in your purchasing, as Joe said below...
  


joe skubinski said:


> ...and it's often noted the system begins with the best loudspeakers you can afford...


 
  
  


isquirrel said:


> New Abyss owner today, 2nd time around


 
  
 Well bugger me.
  
  


up late said:


> tyll's assessments of headphones are based on his subjective listening impressions and his objective measurements.
> 
> whether or not the abyss achieves your goal of mimicking "crazy expensive" full-sized two channel sound systems is in the ears of the beholder. it still sounded like a headphone to me tho an impressive one to be sure.


 
  
 Sure - you can't fool someone wearing headphones into thinking they're listening to speakers, but they're probably the most speaker-y headphone you can get.  I think the only way you can make someone feel like the source of the sound is actually in front of them is with some clever software - and that wouldn't be a very audiophile-y thing to do...


----------



## up late

^ i often think that i'd be better off if i did


----------



## yates7592

isquirrel said:


> New Abyss owner today, 2nd time around


 




 Welcome back!


----------



## yates7592

bigfatpaulie said:


> I'd like to know as well.
> 
> Also, does anyone do anything to take care of the leather?  If so, what do you use?




I use the BMW leather care, not that I have the car, but it does the job well.


----------



## mulder01

I'm sure any leather cleaner/ conditioner would do the job.  Could probably buy a kit from any furniture store.


----------



## greekgod

I used to own a high end leather sofa set from Italy and the guy from the furniture store was very honest. He told me that most furniture stores will sell you expensive leather conditioners that you don't really need. When it comes to high quality leather all you need to do is take a damp cloth and put a couple of your fingers into it. Then use a very small amount of olive oil and rub it onto the leather. I would only use a teaspoon for an entire sofa. It worked great. My friend started doing the same thing and he was thrilled with the results. I had that sofa set for many years and then my grandmother had it for many years after until her min-pin turned it into a giant chew toy...lol.


----------



## hpz

As I have mentioned earlier, here is the headband mod which I have done.
  
 I've added a mounting spot to attach my own velcro straps.  Just waiting on my black velcro to come in for a fully stealth look.
  
 I did this to improve 2 aspects:  
  
 1) To have the ability to adjust the vertical height
  
 2) To reduce the hotspot that would develop due to the relatively flat headband.  The curvature helps displace the weight across a much larger area.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

hpz said:


>


 
  
  
 This is great - can you elaborate how exactly you did this?


----------



## wink

Smoke and mirrors.....


----------



## HiFiGuy528

My friends have told me Abyss sounds better than my Hi-Fi system. Wife would love to see all this gone and use the space for a guest room.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

hifiguy528 said:


> My friends have told me Abyss sounds better than my Hi-Fi system. Wife would love to see all this gone and use the space for a guest room.


 
  
 Love the Mezzo's...  That's a tall order to best (if you exclude that center channel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## HiFiGuy528

bigfatpaulie said:


> Love the Mezzo's...  That's a tall order to best (if you exclude that center channel
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Shows you how much I care about surround sound.  LOL....


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Lol - I know the feeling


----------



## up late

hifiguy528 said:


> My friends have told me Abyss sounds better than my Hi-Fi system. Wife would love to see all this gone and use the space for a guest room.




but is your room treatment and cables up to snuff?


----------



## arnaud

Such big speakers in corners of a stuffed room like this, must be pretty tough to avoid boomy bass and collapsed soudnstage no?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Looks like a well tuned system to me.. He has them toed in a good amount to avoid primary reflections, probably listens at lower levels and near field, doesn't excite too many room resonances, and typical drywall passes bass frequencies through.

I would think it's way worse in Tokyo, eh? What's the wall construction there?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

​
Listening to Art Pepper right now through the WA5, Tak tubes, and Mytek Manhattan .. very cool !​


----------



## arnaud

Actually, modern constructions are quite well isolated, both airborne and structure borne. You still have the face against the tweeters in Tokyo however unless you're wealthy and without kids...

You'll have to explain in detail how you don't excite room modes from a corner with just toe in


----------



## up late

and he can also explain how he knows just by looking at a photo that it's a "well tuned" sound system, and that those large floor standers are probably used for near field listening at low volume


----------



## mulder01

That is a very nice looking speaker setup.  I do like Focal...
 Tell the wife you'll need to keep the amps for the Abyss


----------



## Articnoise

Big speakers (not pointing this at your system Hifiguy) can get you big sound and deep bass, but can be quite problematic to place right in a small room. By toe those in you can avoid some of the most challenging primarily reflections in mid and treble, but you will still have the boosted diffusion in the bass IME.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Did I say it was a perfect room?:rolleyes:
Bass is a problem in nearly every room, one of the reasons we made a headphone that can do bass right.


----------



## matthewhypolite

bigfatpaulie said:


> I am having a bit of a fit issue and I was wondering if anyone else has the same problem and was able to somehow resolve it.  They are sitting to 'low' on my head, like the ear pads are pushing down on the tops of my ears.  If I hold the top "cross bar" and pull it up a bit, they are much more comfortable, but when I let go they fall again.  I feel like if the leather strip with the name "ABYSS" on it was shorter it would fix the fit issue for me.  Has anyone else found this?  Any suggestions on how to fix this?


 
  
 Sorry for late reply, just caught up on thread.I had the same exact issue as you. And I've even done the "hold the headphones up" to resolve the problem lol. I first try twisting the headband as suggested, it helped a little, but the problem was still very much there, would be great if abyss had some sort of height adjustment, would make fitting these alot easier. I ended up doing a mod utilizing other headbands, and once I confirmed that was the last piece of the abyss puzzle, I bought a logitech headband and made a neater looking mod, see below:
  
 First Headband Mod (Using 2 Beyer headbands + foam):
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DWXVABA/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  

  

  
  
 2nd Headband Mod (using 1 Logitech Headband, no foam):
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00P1RQTJS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  

  

  

  

  
 ------------
  
 The logitech headband looks alot neater and more official, so that's the one im using now, i now have the perfect abyss fit and the headphones are marvelous.
 Would be nice to have an official solution from Abyss though, i would not mind buying a thicker headband or shorter as the case may be if it solves the issue.
  
 Hope this post was helpful


----------



## Yoga

Nice band, will nab one to try.


----------



## Beolab

joe skubinski said:


> ​
> Listening to Art Pepper right now through the WA5, Tak tubes, and Mytek Manhattan .. very cool !​




WA5 LE or what spec is it?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Original WA-5 ~2 years old


----------



## Beolab

joe skubinski said:


> Original WA-5 ~2 years old




Nice setup! 

Will order one myself i think!


----------



## mulder01

Perhaps not the most elegant solution, but cheap quick and easy headband mod that might be worth trying (complete rip off of hpz's idea) - all you need is two cable ties, then sit it on your head and tighten cable ties until they sit at the right height...
  

  
  
 Close up:
  

  
 I'm actually wondering if this will be a good solution for me as well  even though I have a bigger head... Since now there is a bigger curve in the headband, I have more headband in contact with my head and the weight can be distributed across a larger area and hopefully will be a bit more comfortable for longer listening...  Will have to try it out.


----------



## matthewhypolite

That's a pretty simple mod to try out. I'll do it tomorrow and see how it compares to what ive already done.


----------



## Yoga

Cable ties - nice idea! Worth a pop indeed.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

I find it's nice to have both a high powered tube and solid state amp.



beolab said:


> Nice setup!
> 
> Will order one myself i think!


----------



## isquirrel

joe skubinski said:


> ​ Listening to Art Pepper right now through the WA5, Tak tubes, and Mytek Manhattan .. very cool !​


 

 Ver nice Joe, which driver tubes are you using?


----------



## mulder01

Any initial thoughts on the Abyss take 2 isquirrel?


----------



## Beolab

Maybe they sound better this time! =)) 

I have upgraded my amp to Abyss / HE-6 spec, with new output +25 gain cards, and the midrange whent from dull to more forward, so now there is not a dip " V shape" left, only a very slight one if any, and not a big creek as from the beginning. 

The amp are very straight / neutral and digs out every flaw in the recording which can be good sometimes, and can sometimes be a headache when you like as song but you cant listen to it because its to poor / old recording. 

One example is: 

You'll See" Madonna TIDAL HiFi: http://tidal.com/track/1757668 

And this reference recording are like from another planet:

 "Black Nights" Doug MacLeod TIDAL HiFi , : http://tidal.com/track/45715808

This upgrade made a bigger difference than switch to better interconnects. 

 

The old gain cards where the flat connecting cable where glued together with the input on the card , which gave me a hard jobb to release with a heated gun, and then i had to solder 20 cables on the new boards  , but now its working and sound more straight than before 



Just tried out an old Musical Fidelity VDAC II with V-PSU II combined with the Femto 
Re-clocker Remedy from W4s. 

It got a very nice tube-like soft sound, with less micro detail and have a higher noise floor than the Ultra neutral Chord Hugo and the MSB Analog.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Nice DAC


----------



## Joe Skubinski

I settled on a set of GE 6SN7GTB I had laying around, MADE IN USA. They remind me of my 2 channel system preamp's GE 12AU7's.



isquirrel said:


> Ver nice Joe, which driver tubes are you using?


----------



## matthewhypolite

mulder01 said:


> Perhaps not the most elegant solution, but cheap quick and easy headband mod that might be worth trying (complete rip off of hpz's idea) - all you need is two cable ties, then sit it on your head and tighten cable ties until they sit at the right height...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're AWESOME! whoever's the original owner of this idea deserves credit. I've just tried it, wow, so much more comfortable. And ive as a result able to adjust the earpads into a more natural and comfortable position. The end result was a better fit, more comfortable, seems lighter on my head, and some how sounds better?....

 Not sure if the improvement in audio quality is just my brain thinking that way because its not fighting against the comfort issues, or if its because I now have a more natural fit for my head. Either way. This mod is great. Joe, you need to design an official headband that gives the same effect, would be great if its user adjustable for height as well.


----------



## Yoga

Indeed, it's insane how much lighter they feel using the zip tie mod!
  
 A bit more awkward getting them on, but worth it for the perfect height.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

You guys are all crazy.
  
 I've come up with the simplest, completely reversible headband mod for the AB-1266. 
  
 I humbly present to you THE TOILET PAPER ROLL MOD!!
  
  

  
  
 It effectively eliminates un-due stress on the headband, is reversible, and (with the addition of a marker) is available in a myriad of colours!
  
 Sadly...  I'm only half kidding....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 I'm going to buy some pull-ties today...........


----------



## matthewhypolite

bigfatpaulie said:


> You guys are all crazy.
> 
> I've come up with the simplest, completely reversible headband mod for the AB-1266.
> 
> ...


 


 ROFL!
  
 yea, the twist ties work, and I like the fact they now form a curve of the headband over the head, I think that's helping with the comfort as well, my abyss now feels more traditional and secure on my head, as opposed to balancing off the top of my noggin.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Okay, being a little more serious...


----------



## hpz

matthewhypolite said:


> ROFL!
> 
> yea, the twist ties work, and I like the fact they now form a curve of the headband over the head, I think that's helping with the comfort as well, my abyss now feels more traditional and secure on my head, as opposed to balancing off the top of my noggin.


 
  
  
 Yes this is why I created this mod.
  
 It makes it so that the headband, now curves around the top of the head and distributes the weight much more evenly.  This effect coupled with the fact that it is still a suspension band, makes for a very comfortable and even fit.
  
 I used some RC parts I had lying around.  There were plastic servo blocks which I cut to size.  I then drilled a hole so that I could use a longer screw to secure the block to the original hole in the abyss. The screw I used was 20mm in length.
  
 Here is a diagram I hope can explain a few things.
  

  
  
 But having two block in place, I was able to put a small cross bar , inbetween the two blocks to act as a handle so I could strap my velcro or cable tie.
  

  
 The result is a clean look and unlimited adjustments.


----------



## mulder01

bigfatpaulie said:


> You guys are all crazy.
> 
> I've come up with the simplest, completely reversible headband mod for the AB-1266.
> 
> I humbly present to you THE TOILET PAPER ROLL MOD!!


 
  
 lol nice
 what about some scrunched up newspaper or a thick slice of cucumber?
  
  


hpz said:


> But having two block in place, I was able to put a small cross bar , inbetween the two blocks to act as a handle so I could strap my velcro or cable tie.
> 
> 
> 
> The result is a clean look and unlimited adjustments.


 
  
 Definitely a better long term solution for people with the know-how


----------



## Jozurr

To think you would have to do these kinds of mods for comfort on a pair of $5k headphones is just absurd. How do they get comfort wrong? Do they not make a few people try these on? or is it a matter of sticking speakers next to your ears somehow?
  
 I'll never understand it.


----------



## Yoga

jozurr said:


> To think you would have to do these kinds of mods for comfort on a pair of $5k headphones is just absurd. How do they get comfort wrong? Do they not make a few people try these on? or is it a matter of sticking speakers next to your ears somehow?
> 
> I'll never understand it.


 

 I'll bite. They were _never_ uncomfortable to me, even with 8+ hours usage.
  
 This mod just improves them.
  
 I do agree however, that the resting headphone height (headband) should be adjustable out of the factory.


----------



## mulder01

maybe Abyss v1.1 will have a vertically adjustable headband holder...
  
 maybe they can mount the headband holder on some threaded rod or something and make it adjustable by some wingnuts on top of the main frame just to weird-up the look a bit... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 ...just having a bit of fun jozurr - different things suit different people
 there is a method to their madness though
 the stiff frame makes it so that the earpads don't press firmly against your face and the drivers sort of just hang there.  And the gaps around your ears can be varied to slightly customise the sound.  They take a bit more setting up than a normal headphone but I think you'd agree if you heard them that it was worth the effort in the end.  I'll admit it could be a little bit more adjustable than it is though.


----------



## greekgod

I agree that the height should be adjustable out of the factory. When I tried them, I found they sat far too low even on my big head.


----------



## Nik

Hi to all Abyss 1266 owners...
 I'm new here... (but not in the headfi.org forums...).
 Just two weeks with my new Abyss/Goldmund HDA ... Fantastic setup !!!
  
 Best regards to all...
  
 Nik


----------



## Yoga

nik said:


> Hi to all Abyss 1266 owners...
> I'm new here... (but not in the headfi.org forums...).
> Just two weeks with my new Abyss/Goldmund HDA ... Fantastic setup !!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great amp - enjoy!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

nik said:


> Hi to all Abyss 1266 owners...
> I'm new here... (but not in the headfi.org forums...).
> Just two weeks with my new Abyss/Goldmund HDA ... Fantastic setup !!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 You know what they say... it's not real unless there's a picture. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Congrats!


----------



## Nik




----------



## Nik

Guys... look here.... No problems with this beast of amplifier: Goldmund HDA !!! The same sound, one or two Abyss ... Incredible !!!


----------



## Nik




----------



## mulder01

nik said:


> Guys... look here.... No problems with this beast of amplifier: Goldmund HDA !!! The same sound, one or two Abyss ... Incredible !!!


 
  
  
 One for you and one for the wife?


----------



## Nik

The second Abyss is for my bother... I have just tested the Goldmund with two Abyss... And it was fantastic...


----------



## Yoga

nik said:


>


 
  
 That is an _incredibly_ expensive photograph (cables only). Goodness me :¬)


----------



## Nik

Each cable has been tested for the correct electric phase...


----------



## Yoga

Blimey :¬)
  
 What is your music source?


----------



## mulder01

yoga said:


> That is an _incredibly_ expensive photograph (cables only). Goodness me :¬)


 
  
 I imagine it sounds PRETTY GOOD
  
 My whole setup costs less than _one_ of those cables


----------



## Nik

As you can read on my signature, the source is the Vitus scd 025 CD player...


----------



## mulder01

Are you thinking of trying the Superconductor HP Abyss cable upgrade Nik?


----------



## Yoga

nik said:


> As you can read on my signature, the source is the Vitus scd 025 CD player...


 

 Considered going to top end digital sources? Some people with gear in the same league as your own have preferred it to CD.


----------



## Nik

Yes... I'm waiting for the Superconductor next week...


----------



## Nik

yoga said:


> Considered going to top end digital sources? Some people with gear in the same league as your own have preferred it to CD.




I don't understand what you are meaning...


----------



## Yoga

You're using a CD player as transport/playback - there are digital alternatives that serve electronic audio files (lossless / HD / DSD). Examples being Aurender and Lumin.
  
 The Aurdender (W20) is a network server only - you'd need a DAC - whereas the Lumin (A1 and S1) have an internal DAC (like your CD player).
  
 Might be worth checking out if you're going for the best possible audio experience.


----------



## Nik

First: I have 4000 CD... 
Second: I have tried other "liquid music server" and, at the moment, I have preferred the Vitus CD player as integrated to the other digital sources...


----------



## Yoga

nik said:


> First: I have 4000 CD...
> Second: I have tried other "liquid music server" and, at the moment, I have preferred the Vitus CD player as integrated to the other digital sources...


 

 1) Considering your investment, you could pay someone to rip that collection for relatively little. You can also subscribe to Tidal: Lossless streaming, cheap per month, huge collection of music.
  
 2) There are other people here (and elsewhere) with systems worth many, many figures who have found a digital source to be the best. There are lots of poor implementations out there, you need specific hardware. The CAD CAT being one of them, another being the Lumin A1/S1, depending where you look. Or the MSB DACS and UMT+ over I2S. The biggest factor being whether you'd prefer a DAC/streamer in one unit, or have separates.
  
 I'm not trying to persuade you by the way, if you love your setup, you love your setup. Just offering information I've read from elsewhere :¬)


----------



## Nik

Good... Thanks... 
You also can consider that the Vitus scd 025 has been upgraded by the Vitus Audio just now... And that the Goldmund HDA has a internal DSP so this headphones amp do his own digital conversion by both the rca and coaxial in...


----------



## Yoga

nik said:


> Good... Thanks...
> You also can consider that the Vitus scd 025 has been upgraded by the Vitus Audio just now... And that the Goldmund HDA has a internal DSP so this headphones amp do his own digital conversion by both the rca and coaxial in...


 

 I always forget the HDA has a DAC :¬)
  
 Regardless, that CD spinner is world class - enjoy the setup!


----------



## yates7592

I will be interested to hear your thoughts on the Superconductor cable.


----------



## Nik

Sure... I'll post my impression about the two cables (stock and superconductor) head by head...!!!


----------



## Nik

New better stand for the Abyss 1266


----------



## mulder01

Look forward to your comparison Nik.  
  
 Yoga, but CDs ARE a digital source?... Weather that digital information is stored on 4000 seperate media or on one big one I supppose the 1's and 0's should be identical...
 I don't know how many people you have spoken to about CADs stuff, but one look at the internals of their dac put me off them a bit.


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> Look forward to your comparison Nik.
> 
> Yoga, but CDs ARE a digital source?... Weather that digital information is stored on 4000 seperate media or on one big one I supppose the 1's and 0's should be identical...
> I don't know how many people you have spoken to about CADs stuff, but one look at the internals of their dac put me off them a bit.


 
  
 It was a tad ambiguous, I meant a computer/server source (physical vs digital).
  
 Although I've seen the CAD internals, I can't recall it. I agree with the sentiment, I've seen the internals or a few pieces of equipment which are expensive and thought they looked a bit DIY. Makes me wonder how hard it would be to study EE for audio and build something. Could be a fun hobby.


----------



## yates7592

@yoga - I read elsewhere you have a Moon 600i. Will you be posting impressions with Abyss as I'd be interested?


----------



## isquirrel

I have found a magic combination with my Abyss, I am finally understanding what it is about it that I like, for me its the energy. It might not have the have the smoothness and transparency that the HD 800 or HE-1000 has, but it is a more exciting headphone to listen to. I found over time I grew bored of listening to all my music through the HE-1000, its still good however to be able to use it when the music best suits it.
  
 As we all know the Abyss loses some energy especially in the vocals through the mid range, I have recently found a valve type that suits it very nicely IMO. The EML normal plate 2A3. Paired with some TSRP's and the Takatsuki 274B rectifier it fills out the mid range beautifully with a very clean and engaging sound.


----------



## Nik

"As we all know the Abyss loses some energy especially in the vocals through the mid range" (...) 

All, but not me...


----------



## Beolab

My Abyss had also a v-shape sound character in the vocal mids but after 200 houres i think it have flaten out very much and are not so ressesed any more in the mid vocal band, it sounds more fluid and have a better bass with more energy, and my recipe is to play relative loud with bassy tunes for a couple of days 24/7.


----------



## isquirrel

For whatever reason I ran my new pair in for +600 hours before doing any critical listening, and I am sure they sound better than the pair I sold. Weird as Joe says there have been no changes.


----------



## mulder01

The aftermarket cables are meant to clean up the mids a bit too, I think?
  
 600 hours already!  Mine have probably about 100ish hours after about a year


----------



## Yoga

yates7592 said:


> @yoga - I read elsewhere you have a Moon 600i. Will you be posting impressions with Abyss as I'd be interested?


 

 Will do - awaiting cables (and Lumin!).


----------



## matthewhypolite

Finally got my LAu amp, just did an initial listen to them with the Abyss. Cavalli recommends burning the amp in for 200hrs before critical listening, so I have them doing just that atm.
  
 From initial listen, id say the Dark Star is as powerful as the LAu, drives the Abyss with the same level of authority. The LAu though appears to be more neutral sounding, which seems to surface details better, seems to improve the dynamic range as well. Just had a quick 30 minute listen though. I'll do a writeup after burn-in and a week or 2 of critical listening.
  
 Either way the dark star will be going up for sale soon 
  
 Glad to hear isquirell enjoying the abyss once more. The Abyss and HE1000 do really complement each other really well. The headband mods for the Abyss has made them so enjoyable for me to use now, they are really a stellar headphone. Both are suited for different types of music, but then there are those times when you're in the mode for the extra energy offered by the abyss regardless of genre.
  
 Still have to decide on my DAC upgrade, Yggy or CAD DAC. sigh, this hobby....


----------



## Nik

Nice? Do you like it?
 Tomorrow probably the superconductor cable arrives ...


----------



## Nik

The Superconductor cable arrived... I know it needs several burn in time... But now the Abyss fly with all the power they can do... I CAN'T BELIEVE!!! Thanks Joe...


----------



## Yoga

Any specific feedback regarding the sonic signature compared to the stock cable?


----------



## Fastnbulbous

Can anyone appreciate the irony, the insanity, of the idea that the stock cables for one of the most expensive headphones on the planet, by a company that specializes in selling ridiculously overpriced cables, claiming they're "The World's Finest Cables," somehow inhibit its sound quality?


----------



## Yoga

fastnbulbous said:


> Can anyone appreciate the irony, the insanity, of the idea that the stock cables for one of the most expensive headphones on the planet, by a company that specializes in selling ridiculously overpriced cables, claiming they're "The World's Finest Cables," somehow inhibit its sound quality?


 
  
 Yup. They were only built as it was seen that people were upgrading to other cables too. It was quite disappointing to see I must admit.


----------



## Beolab

But this was their best cable until now for the Abyss, so i don't buy it that the cable was a budget free of charge cable, that is real bull , and i have heard other 3000$ cables and it is not a huge step forward, more neutral and analytical which i do not like.


----------



## Nik

yoga said:


> Any specific feedback regarding the sonic signature compared to the stock cable?




I'll write all my impression very soon...


----------



## Beolab

nik said:


> I'll write all my impression very soon...




What is the listing price for the cable Nic ?


----------



## Nik

A lot... 1.80cm jack terminated


----------



## Beolab

nik said:


> A lot... 1.80cm jack terminated




And whats the listing price then??

What is the most present difference btw stock and the new cable in your opinion?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

beolab said:


> What did you pay for the cable Nic ?


 
  
 Isn't asking something like that akin to asking a woman her age?


----------



## Beolab

bigfatpaulie said:


> Isn't asking something like that akin to asking a woman her age?




Id just asked the price of the cable, because i was consider one my self! 
I don't think that is rude or strange to ask what JPS Labs listing the cable for??


----------



## Yoga

beolab said:


> Id just asked the price of the cable, because i was consider one my self!
> Is that is rude and strange to ask what JPS Labs listing price for the cable??


 

 No. It's a publicly available product :¬)


----------



## hpz

$3899 aud for 1.8m cable.

http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/product/jps-labs-the-superconductor-hp-for-abyss-ab-1266-18m


----------



## bigfatpaulie

beolab said:


> Id just asked the price of the cable, because i was consider one my self!
> Is that is rude and strange to ask what JPS Labs listing price for the cable??


 
  
 I guess the tongue in cheeky tone of my comment was lost.
  
 I'm sorry, I didn't meant to offend...


----------



## Beolab

bigfatpaulie said:


> I guess the tongue in cheeky tone of my comment was lost.
> 
> I'm sorry, I didn't meant to offend...




No problem 

Sometimes forums can get just a little frustrating


----------



## Beolab

hpz said:


> $3899 aud for 1.8m cable.
> 
> http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/product/jps-labs-the-superconductor-hp-for-abyss-ab-1266-18m




So the cable cost almost like a demo Abyss headphones , and more than the HE-1K then  , it can not follow any common sense, or can it? 

It is the phones that produce about 50% of the sound, and second to that is the amp and then the source / track quality. The cabling is just for fine tuning like tube rolling, and can not do the same difference as the rest. 

So this cable must be remarkably good then Nic, or what is your first impressions vs stock? 

Whats the price on the 4 Spore cable for example ?


----------



## mulder01

I think the replacement cost of the stock cable is around the $1000 mark, so they're not exactly supplied with cheap cables. 

Is the cable upgrade for everyone? Nup. Should you be annoyed that they have been made available to people that want them? Nup.

Pretty sure the reason these superconductor cables exist is for people that have the best of the best equipment and cables already in the rest of their system, and are looking for a way to squeeze that extra bit of performance out of their system. I suppose it does make sense, if you're a cable company selling 4 figure cables to offer one of those cables with headphone connectors on the end if people want them. Probably not the most cost effective upgrade for someone with an entry level system, but for the guys with WA234's and viva egoista's etc, I don't think it's rude to offer a potential upgrade if they're happy to spend the money. Of course it's a big outlay, but at the summit-fi level that's expected so there should be no surprises there.

Beolab, in Aus, a 1.8m DHC Spore 4 delivered is about $2750ish, so yeah these are about $1k more retail. Not sure what price you could get them for from a2a if you asked nicely though - I don't think a 10% discount off retail would be out of the question. Is the sound and cost porportionally better than the Spore4? No idea.


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> I think the replacement cost of the stock cable is around the $1000 mark, so they're not exactly supplied with cheap cables.
> 
> Is the cable upgrade for everyone? Nup. Should you be annoyed that they have been made available to people that want them? Nup.
> 
> ...




Yes i am aware of this "syndrome" very well , but still my point is if you take a MBL 101 Reference $800k speaker , and then produce a $900k cable for it, then i think 99.999999999999 of all high end billionares hade thaught this was not in the porportion to the rest of the system.

Joe wrights that it should compared to the stock cable (which are very good) , it will give larger soundstage, greater clarity to source without brightness, room boundries open up, amazingly musical detail.

I hope Nicś impressions are clearly likewise! 

Cant wait to hear what he's final statement of the the sonic difference will be.. 

I have placed an order on the new $13.500 incl VAT: Chord Electronics DAVE DAC / (headphone amp) and i hope it can direct drive the Abyss according to some sources i have. Then if it all love btw Abyss and Dave, then i maybe consider the Superconductor , but it depending on what sonic benefits it can bring! It should not just be subtle 

PS 
Thanks for the price on the Spore 4 !


----------



## mulder01

I think this is a bit different to a $900,000 cable... if such a thing exists.
  
  
 Just going to repost this picture...
  


			
				Nik said:
			
		

>


 
  
 If my system looked like this, I would probably go for the cable upgrade without batting an eyelid.


----------



## up late

fastnbulbous said:


> Can anyone appreciate the irony, the insanity, of the idea that the stock cables for one of the most expensive headphones on the planet, by a company that specializes in selling ridiculously overpriced cables, claiming they're "The World's Finest Cables," somehow inhibit its sound quality?




sure but it doesn't apply here


----------



## Articnoise

beolab said:


> I have placed an order on the new $13.500 incl VAT: Chord Electronics DAVE DAC / (headphone amp) and i hope it can direct drive the Abyss according to some sources i have. Then if it all love btw Abyss and Dave, then i maybe consider the Superconductor , but it depending on what sonic benefits it can bring! It should not just be subtle
> 
> PS
> Thanks for the price on the Spore 4 !


 
  

 Man I’m really interested in your impressions on the DAVE and also if you have some other high end DACs at hand to compare it to, which are not from Chord? 

  

 Btw do you live in or near Stockholm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ?


----------



## Beolab

articnoise said:


> Man I’m really interested in your impressions on the DAVE and also if you have some other high end DACs at hand to compare it to, which are not from Chord?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It haven't got in to production yet , so no i dont have any impressions yet 

Yes and no i will move to Germany / Berlin for 3 years during 2016.


----------



## potkettleblack

Hi all,

Can you please suggest the best budget amps for the abyss.


----------



## Beolab

potkettleblack said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Can you please suggest the best budget amps for the abyss.




There is no budget amp for the abyss unfortenatly, but if you are on a tight budget i would go with the Audio-GD NFB-1 amp, with 7 Watt amplification, but you will not get the full potential like if you go with the Dark Star, Cavalli Lau , Goldmund or Woo-Audio WA5.


----------



## mulder01

Depends what you mean by budget - I use a Vio v281 which I think does a great job.  I was a bit hesitant about the price and the salesman suggested the v220 whch is the exact same amp but single ended only instead of balanced, and cheaper again was the Mjolnir which has both the power and the balanced outs.  I even sometimes use an ALO Rx Mk3b+ portable and some others have used the portable centrance hifi m8 or Hugo.  If you want to look at something cheap to start with and upgrade later, I would look at anything that can put a watt or two into them to get you by.
  
 OTOH if you have, or can pick up, a reasonable speaker amp, that would have the power too but just be careful to do your research so you don't blow something up.  A lot of people swear by their speaker amps for the Abyss and it's pretty handy if you already have a 2 channel setup you don't need to buy a headphone amp.  Hifi man makes an adapter box to adapt speaker outs to a balanced 4 pin jack, and some cable companies make a 4x banana plug to female 4 pin balanced cable.  There are definitely options out there if you've blown all your $ on the headphones


----------



## seeteeyou

Pulse-HB is finally available for headphones, did anyone receive yours from Touraj yet?
  
 http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/vertere-pulse-hb-headphone-cable.html
  




  
  
 BTW, it's nice to see some Nordost Odin pictures here and another Abyss owner (nickif) got some headphone cables made from Odin interconnects.


----------



## mulder01

seeteeyou said:


> Pulse-HB is finally available for headphones, did anyone receive yours from Touraj yet?
> 
> http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/vertere-pulse-hb-headphone-cable.html


 
  
 Seems like it's not available for Abyss?


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> OTOH if you have, or can pick up, a reasonable speaker amp, that would have the power too but just be careful to do your research so you don't blow something up.  A lot of people swear by their speaker amps for the Abyss and it's pretty handy if you already have a 2 channel setup you don't need to buy a headphone amp.  Hifi man makes an adapter box to adapt speaker outs to a balanced 4 pin jack, and some cable companies make a 4x banana plug to female 4 pin balanced cable.  There are definitely options out there if you've blown all your $ on the headphones


 
  
 Does that Hifiman adapter work with the Abyss?
  
 Edit: it appears it does! Will nab it to test.


----------



## mulder01

As far as I'm aware it just puts some resistors in parallel with the headphone load to lower the impedance and make it a bit more speaker amp friendly. As far as I know, lots of amps will work fine with a 46ohm load though so a lot of people just use the cable. Depends on the amp I suppose.


----------



## cladane

beolab said:


> There is no budget amp for the abyss unfortenatly, but if you are on a tight budget i would go with the Audio-GD NFB-1 amp, with 7 Watt amplification, but you will not get the full potential like if you go with the Dark Star, Cavalli Lau , Goldmund or Woo-Audio WA5.


 
 Agree with @Beoloab, no budget amp. And on top of those you will find the VIVA Egoista.


----------



## Nik

Viva 845 not the very best... In my experience, Abyss loves hi quality Ss amplifier... Just my two cents...


----------



## Yoga

Not to mention full amplifiers. This Moon 600i is incredible, even when paired with a tiny £70 NuForce Icon DAC (while the Lumin is in transit).


----------



## Nik

After about 30 hours of work, the Superconductor seems to have lifted a veil on the cable stock, the impression is that everything is better ... But I guess it still takes time to make a realistic judgment ...


----------



## Beolab

Its like a layer have been shaved off or even two layers?


----------



## Nik

I do not understand the meaning of your question...


----------



## Yoga

I'm using a £3500 pair of cans with a £6500 amplifier and a £70 DAC (NuForce uDAC 3 - direct to Mac via USB) and the sound is still entirely engaging. Yes, it has problems - bass has gone, gritty treble, but it's not enough for me to listen to Gary Moore - Story of the Blues without constant goose bumps (check that song out if you've not heard it - amazing!).
  
 These cans scale _incredibly_ well. Can't wait to get the Lumin / Analog / TotalDAC / N10 to play with. New levels to be achieved :¬)


----------



## REXNFX

yoga said:


> I'm using a £3500 pair of cans with a £6500 amplifier and a £70 DAC (NuForce uDAC 3 - direct to Mac via USB) and the sound is still entirely engaging. Yes, it has problems - bass has gone, gritty treble, but it's not enough for me to listen to Gary Moore - Story of the Blues without constant goose bumps (check that song out if you've not heard it - amazing!).
> 
> These cans scale _incredibly_ well. Can't wait to get the Lumin / Analog / TotalDAC / N10 to play with. New levels to be achieved :¬)


 
 Great to hear you can get involving sound from such a cheap DAC, Which software player are you using? (assume 16/44.1 file?)


----------



## Articnoise

AGD Master 9 is a good budget amp. It plays more or less on the SQ level of the 430HA IMO. I have not tried it with the Abyss, but it can drive the HE-6 well. The amp has a full sound with good drive and a smooth treble that probably would fit the sound of the Abyss.


----------



## Yoga

rexnfx said:


> Great to hear you can get involving sound from such a cheap DAC, Which software player are you using? (assume 16/44.1 file?)


 
  
 Audirvana 2+ with system optimizer. 16/44 to DSD.


----------



## preproman

yoga said:


> I'm using a £3500 pair of cans with a £6500 amplifier and a £70 DAC (NuForce uDAC 3 - direct to Mac via USB) and the sound is still entirely engaging. Yes, it has problems - bass has gone, gritty treble, but it's not enough for me to listen to Gary Moore - Story of the Blues without constant goose bumps (check that song out if you've not heard it - amazing!).
> 
> These cans scale _incredibly_ well. Can't wait to get the Lumin / Analog / TotalDAC / N10 to play with. New levels to be achieved :¬)


 

 How are you liking that 600i?


----------



## Yoga

preproman said:


> How are you liking that 600i?


 

 It's phenomenal - authoritative power, transparency (with a touch of warmth), dynamic range, soundstage, tonality, texture etc. It's making the absolute best of a cheap DAC. I cannot wait to hear it with the Lumin + linear PSU tomorrow when it arrives. I think the Yggdrasil and/or MSB Analog will make a great pairing too.
  
 I now understand what you've been saying all along; search further than headphone amps. Thanks again :¬)


----------



## superfred21

nik said:


> Viva 845 not the very best... In my experience, Abyss loves hi quality Ss amplifier... Just my two cents...


 
  
 My preference is to viva egoista throughout the SS amps
 I recently tested the Goldmund THA2 not my cup of tea !!!


----------



## Nik

Do you have "tested" the Goldmund with Abyss at your home with your source and cables? Do you own the setup Viva/Abyss at your home?


----------



## REXNFX

yoga said:


> Audirvana 2+ with system optimizer. 16/44 to DSD.


Thanks, didn't realise it could do DSD


----------



## superfred21

nik said:


> Do you have "tested" the Goldmund with Abyss at your home with your source and cables? Do you own the setup Viva/Abyss at your home?


 
 I am owner of Abyss  for almost 2 years
 currently my setup: TotalDac D1 Dual + Viva Egoista + Abyss
 I prefer the widely Egoista Viva in direct comparison with the Goldmund


----------



## preproman

yoga said:


> It's phenomenal - authoritative power, transparency (with a touch of warmth), dynamic range, soundstage, tonality, texture etc. It's making the absolute best of a cheap DAC. I cannot wait to hear it with the Lumin + linear PSU tomorrow when it arrives. I think the Yggdrasil and/or MSB Analog will make a great pairing too.
> 
> I now understand what you've been saying all along; search further than headphone amps. Thanks again :¬)


----------



## Nik

superfred21 said:


> I am owner of Abyss  for almost 2 years
> 
> currently my setup: TotalDac D1 Dual + Viva Egoista + Abyss
> 
> I prefer the widely Egoista Viva in direct comparison with the Goldmund




De gustibus non disputandum est...


----------



## Nik

Guys, the Superconductor is opening incredibly ... Oh, my God ...


----------



## bigfatpaulie

yoga said:


> It's phenomenal - authoritative power, transparency (with a touch of warmth), dynamic range, soundstage, tonality, texture etc. It's making the absolute best of a cheap DAC. I cannot wait to hear it with the Lumin + linear PSU tomorrow when it arrives. I think the Yggdrasil and/or MSB Analog will make a great pairing too.
> 
> I now understand what you've been saying all along; search further than headphone amps. Thanks again :¬)


 
  
 Welcome to the club


----------



## Yoga

bigfatpaulie said:


> Welcome to the club


 





 I was up late last night listening to my collection hearing things in tracks I'd not heard before. This amp has some serious resolving power.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

yoga said:


> I was up late last night listening to my collection hearing things in tracks I'd not heard before. This amp has some serious resolving power.


 
  
 Absolutely.  The 600i is an outstanding amp.  Plus, it happens to be a pretty sexy looking piece of gear.


----------



## Yoga

bigfatpaulie said:


> Absolutely.  The 600i is an outstanding amp.  Plus, it happens to be a pretty sexy looking piece of gear.


 

 Agreed!
  
 It makes the 430HAD look like a toy in comparison. Which is unfair, it's an amazing piece of kit :¬)


----------



## Happy Camper

Hearing what a quality speaker amp can do, experiment with others up the chain. World class comes to mind. The cool part is you can find an incredible performance bargain with less expensive older gear.


----------



## mulder01

Very interested to hear your thoughts on super budget dac vs fancy pants dac Yoga. Did you just end up going straight to your speaker outs on the 600i?

On another note, it annoys me a bit that people always say there is no budget amp option for the Abyss. Sure, a cheaper amp won't drive them to 100% of their potential, and maybe the difference is unacceptable to someone who can afford to pair them with a $10k amp, but from what I've experienced, Abyss + budget amp still bests the other flagships hands-down. Back when I first heard the abyss, I automatically assumed that a $5k headphone needs a $5k amp because that's what everyone said, and if I believed that and never tried them off a more budget amp, then I would have never bought a pair. I think a lot of people probably write off the abyss because of the assumed overall setup costs, like I did early on, and it's a shame because it's NOT an absolutely necessary requirement for Abyss ownership. Just my 2c anyway. Yes I know it scales, but even the bottom of the scale is pretty sweet IMO.


----------



## Yoga

Yes I'm rather looking forward to that. Waiting for the Lumin to be delivered as we speak, although it will need burn in. Hopefully a loan Analog will be with me next week.
  
 The Abyss sounded very good through my old Burson Conductor too.


----------



## Nik

mulder01 said:


> Very interested to hear your thoughts on super budget dac vs fancy pants dac Yoga. Did you just end up going straight to your speaker outs on the 600i?
> 
> On another note, it annoys me a bit that people always say there is no budget amp option for the Abyss. Sure, a cheaper amp won't drive them to 100% of their potential, and maybe the difference is unacceptable to someone who can afford to pair them with a $10k amp, but from what I've experienced, Abyss + budget amp still bests the other flagships hands-down. Back when I first heard the abyss, I automatically assumed that a $5k headphone needs a $5k amp because that's what everyone said, and if I believed that and never tried them off a more budget amp, then I would have never bought a pair. I think a lot of people probably write off the abyss because of the assumed overall setup costs, like I did early on, and it's a shame because it's NOT an absolutely necessary requirement for Abyss ownership. Just my 2c anyway. Yes I know it scales, but even the bottom of the scale is pretty sweet IMO.




Very, very good Abyss with Violetric 281, better than Mcintosh that retails double...


----------



## mulder01

yoga said:


> The Abyss sounded very good through my old Burson Conductor too.


 
  
 ...He says with his Burson Conductor ad below


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> ...He says with his Burson Conductor ad below


 

 That's the Virtuoso, I was talking about the Conductor before that 
  
 Not on the same level as the 430/600i for the Abyss.


----------



## Yoga

Quick update, Lumin + 600i + Abyss (I'll keep this short as I'll be testing more with the Lumin A1, Lumin D1, Moon 600i, Moon 430, Aurender N10 and Analog (Quad) next week).
  
 I have always been an open advocate for the Abyss, understanding and accepting a couple of shortcomings; mids could be more engaging (although this is personal preference) and the treble can be quite harsh at times.
  
 This combination has not just addressed those 'issues', it has unequivocally surpassed them. Mids are delicious, instruments and voices sound visceral and real, layer separation and spacial cues have gone through the roof - it's now holographic. Sounds is liquid and tangible backed by dynamic power. Not only that, there is incredible resolution and detail retrieval (but in no way at the expense of flow).
  
 No longer do they feel 'technically excellent' (soundstage, accuracy, bass), they are quite literally oozing with musicality, emotion, timing and coherence. It's like owning a new pair of headphones. Never heard the Abyss this good, they scale incredibly well. It's _leagues_ above the 430 HAD. And in fact, anything I've heard via headphones.
  
 This is just with the Lumin D1. Lots more to play with next week, I'll be reporting back :¬)


----------



## Nik

From what you write I recognize the Abyss ... Good!


----------



## edwardsean

yoga said:


> No longer do they feel 'technically excellent' (soundstage, accuracy, bass), they are quite literally oozing with musicality, emotion, timing and coherence. It's like owning a new pair of headphones. Never heard the Abyss this good, they scale incredibly well. It's _leagues_ above the 430 HAD. And in fact, anything I've heard via headphones.


 
 Yoga, "leagues"? "leagues above the 430HAD"? Ahhhh.
  
 You have me intrigued. What is the chain? Is it Lumin D1 > Simaudio 600i > Abyss?


----------



## Yoga

edwardsean said:


> Yoga, "leagues"? "leagues above the 430HAD"? Ahhhh.
> 
> You have me intrigued. What is the chain? Is it Lumin D1 > Simaudio 600i > Abyss?


 

 That could be misinterpreted, I meant horizontal leagues rather that vertical - everything is done better, some more than others. I've been swapping back and forth and the Moon 430HAD still impresses (big time). The biggest difference is holographic soundstage, realism, energy and flow. I'm listening to the 430 as we speak, and while technically great, it doesn't have the realism and emotion of the Lumin + 600i.
  
 The law of diminishing returns kicks in here too of course. I still think as a one box computer connected DAC/amp the Moon is a reference unit.


----------



## Yoga

Yes, Lumin D1 (linear PSU) to 600i via Kimber Select 1130 XLR. Abyss via simple female 4-pin XLR to speaker/bananas.


----------



## Happy Camper

That holographic presentation was what impressed me most with the 600. If they could bottle that in the 430, they'd have a coup.


----------



## matthewhypolite




----------



## seeteeyou

HE1000 and microZOTL2.0 (David Berning's fans rejoice) turned out to be a wonderful match, I wonder if ZOTL40 were the right candidate for driving Abyss?
  
 http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-preamplifiers/stereo-preamps/linear-tube-audio-microzotl-2.0-headphone-amp-preamp-review.html
 http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/zotl/1.html
 http://www.urbanhifi.com/collection/zotl40
 http://www.lineartubeaudio.com/zotl40/
  
  
 BTW, here's a nice toy for converting speaker taps into ALL kinds of balanced headphone outputs for roughly $475
  
 http://www.olasonic.jp/store/products/detail.php?product_id=89


----------



## preproman

yoga said:


> Quick update, Lumin + 600i + Abyss (I'll keep this short as I'll be testing more with the Lumin A1, Lumin D1, Moon 600i, Moon 430, Aurender N10 and Analog (Quad) next week).
> 
> I have always been an open advocate for the Abyss, understanding and accepting a couple of shortcomings; mids could be more engaging (although this is personal preference) and the treble can be quite harsh at times.
> 
> ...


 
  
 WOW you are going to have a hard time deciding what stays and what goes.  
  
 The 600i is just a beast of an amp no doubt.  Lumin D1 vs Aurender 10 + Analog DAC is going to be interesting.. 
  
 One of the main point for me is with the Aurender you can change out DACs - with the Lumin it's all one unit.  The good thing about that is no (USB) mess.  Decisions, decisions. decisions..  
  
 Good luck...


----------



## Yoga

preproman said:


> WOW you are going to have a hard time deciding what stays and what goes.
> 
> The 600i is just a beast of an amp no doubt.  Lumin D1 vs Aurender 10 + Analog DAC is going to be interesting..
> 
> ...


 
  
 Fun times indeed :¬)
  
 I have the A1 with me now, although I managed to pop the fuse in the 600i last night (whoops), by disconnecting the Abyss from the speaker to XLR cable adapter on the amp (the amp was in standby mode, not full power off). I saw a pop/flash in the unit which of course scared the life out of me. Thankfully the fuse is easily replaced at home, I have some coming tomorrow.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

yoga said:


> Fun times indeed :¬)
> 
> I have the A1 with me now, although I managed to pop the fuse in the 600i last night (whoops), by disconnecting the Abyss from the speaker to XLR cable adapter on the amp (the amp was in standby mode, not full power off). I saw a pop/flash in the unit which of course scared the life out of me. Thankfully the fuse is easily replaced at home, I have some coming tomorrow.


 
  
  
 Yikes.  I have disconnected/swapped headphones with my amp on with no issue (nothing playing).  I guess I should stop 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That's odd that it would have an issue with the amp in standby, however...  Are your headphones okay?


----------



## Yoga

bigfatpaulie said:


> Yikes.  I have disconnected/swapped headphones with my amp on with no issue (nothing playing).  I guess I should stop
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Headphones are fine thankfully!
  
 I swapped them over once before and nothing happened (while the amp was on). It was the second time there was a pop. The manual says under no circumstances should you connect/disconnect while on, I read that but didn't take heed. I'm keeping the blown fuse on my desk as a reminder to not be lazy :¬)


----------



## bigfatpaulie

yoga said:


> Headphones are fine thankfully!
> 
> I swapped them over once before and nothing happened (while the amp was on). It was the second time there was a pop. The manual says under no circumstances should you connect/disconnect while on, I read that but didn't take heed. I'm keeping the blown fuse on my desk as a reminder to not be lazy :¬)


 
  
  
 No kidding!
  
 Glad everything is relatively unscathed.  
  
 Let this be a lesson to all of us.


----------



## Yoga

bigfatpaulie said:


> No kidding!
> 
> Glad everything is relatively unscathed.
> 
> Let this be a lesson to all of us.


 

 A little fuse saved me a **** ton of trouble :¬)
  
 Saw this as an opportunity to try an audiophile fuse. I'll blind A/B it vs the standard replacement that Simaudio are sending.


----------



## dBel84

Speaker amps are at much greater risk and most manufacturers will recommend shutting the amp down before changing input cables let alone speaker cables. FWIW headphone amps are equally at risk which is why at minimum the volume should be turned down to minimum when pulling out (or inserting) a TRS jack. There have been a few spectacular amp failures at meets when people are "hot swapping" headphones for comparison. 
  
 Glad your amp and headphones survived the incident. 
  
 ..dB


----------



## Yoga

dbel84 said:


> Speaker amps are at much greater risk and most manufacturers will recommend shutting the amp down before changing input cables let alone speaker cables. FWIW headphone amps are equally at risk which is why at minimum the volume should be turned down to minimum when pulling out (or inserting) a TRS jack. There have been a few spectacular amp failures at meets when people are "hot swapping" headphones for comparison.
> 
> Glad your amp and headphones survived the incident.
> 
> ..dB


 

 Thanks, me too :¬)
  
 Didn't realise the same applied to headphone amps!


----------



## mulder01

Wow I would never have expected that. Whenever I have auditioned headphones I have always paused the source and turned the amp volume right down to minumum before swapping headphones and never had an issue. Noone at the store ever said anything to me about not doing it either. The fact that it was on standby is even more surprising. Does it even have a physical power switch on the unit or do you have to do it at the wall outlet?


----------



## isquirrel

Like wise I have never had an issue swapping headphones since the amps volume is muted or turned down. I think this issue is entirely amp dependant. Bad luck of YOga's before that it blew a fuse, good luck really as that's all it did.


----------



## Yoga

I consider myself very lucky indeed.
  
 Simaudio recommend using fast blow fuses (hence the sensitivity), perhaps many others opt for slow blow.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Headphone amps tend to be a bit more stable with connecting and disconnecting the load (headphone). 
With speaker amps its a whole different story, and with which you need to be very careful. 

That fuse flash blowing (as in the inner glass surface is black) signifies a dead short on the output stages. The output stage transistors surviving such acts is limited in number. What causes it is an instantaneous high frequency oscillation that to the amps output stage looks like a DC signal turning it full on through both rails, similar to a dead short condition.

Bottom line, if your going to play with speaker amps and headphones, best be aware of the amps limitations. And by all means turn the speaker amp off-- Standby is not powered down.


----------



## Yoga

joe skubinski said:


> Headphone amps tend to be a bit more stable with connecting and disconnecting the load (headphone).
> With speaker amps its a whole different story, and with which you need to be very careful.
> 
> That fuse flash blowing (as in the inner glass surface is black) signifies a dead short on the output stages. The output stage transistors surviving such acts is limited in number. What causes it is an instantaneous high frequency oscillation that to the amps output stage looks like a DC signal turning it full on through both rails, similar to a dead short condition.
> ...


 

 The inner glass is black indeed. Thanks for the technical description of the cause.


----------



## Yoga

On a related note, Simaudio states you should only use 3A quick blow fuses (type 3AG). A local company only stocked 10A fuses (slow blow) in that size and said it was safe to use and would open up the soundstage.
  
 * Warning sirens *


----------



## mulder01

lol yeah it gives you 2400w of short circuiting power instead of only 720w...
which of course means a better seperation between instruments, right?


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> lol yeah it gives you 2400w of short circuiting power instead of only 720w...
> which of course means a better seperation between instruments, right?


 

 Terrible isn't it! This was the store owner too. Just to sell a cheap fuse...


----------



## mulder01

Some people don't realise something so stupid can lose them any future business they might have gotten if they just weren't a bellend. I found out that one of Australia's very few stores that sells a turntable I wanted to buy is literally walking distance from my house. I walked in there one day and just had a quick browse and chat to the owner. Massive tool. I'd rather travel interstate and buy it from someone else. How hard is it not to be a tosser.


----------



## isquirrel

mulder01 said:


> Some people don't realise something so stupid can lose them any future business they might have gotten if they just weren't a bellend. I found out that one of Australia's very few stores that sells a turntable I wanted to buy is literally walking distance from my house. I walked in there one day and just had a quick browse and chat to the owner. Massive tool. I'd rather travel interstate and buy it from someone else. How hard is it not to be a tosser.




Northside HiFi or Caxton St?


----------



## Beolab

Im in a search of a small compact (black) high power speaker amp with around 20 watts @ 46 Ohms (125 watts 8 ohms) to drive the Abyss , what do you guys have in your back pockets to recommend ? 

Please share your findings and recommendations


----------



## Beolab

Joe, how much watts can the Abyss handle? 

I have find a small balanced ICE Power Amp with 250 watts in 8 Ohms and 43,5 watts @ 46 Ohms , is this to much ? 

The amp also have 500 watt version , with 87 watts @ 46 Ohms, thats maybe on the top. 

Whats your oppinions?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

It's a pair of headphones, not a floor stander.


I would suggest staying below 15 watts into 46 ohms (about 100 watts into 8) for amplification, not to say the drivers can handle 15 watts for any length of time, they cannot. Most of the powerful headphone amps are about 9 watts into 46 ohms, more than adequate. Even a few good watts (10-25 watts into 8) is very good if the amplifier is excellent.

That being said, you need to be careful in using speaker amps with headphones if you tend to preserve your gear.. the larger the speaker amp the more likely you will fry some headphones. To try and avoid the trouble Yoga had, the amp should always have some load on it, something like a 50 ohm, 10 watt resistor snugged to the binding posts of each channel.
​
I've got a pair of these in our sound lab, 250 watt tube monoblocks. I'll put them in Triode mode and let you know how they work out.


----------



## Yoga

The Moon 600i is 125w into 8 and they work wonderfully. As long as you connect/disconnect gear when off at the mains, of course 
  
 Optimal volume on the moon (80 being max) is 35 to 45. The control and dynamic range at louder (still 'normal' listening) volumes is incredible.
  
 I own the HiFiMan HE Adapter but need to get short speaker cable before trying it.


----------



## Beolab

joe skubinski said:


> It's a pair of headphones, not a floor stander.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Cool Joe! 
. If it works fine with the 250 Watt mono blocks, please share this with us, then i can place an order on the ICE power amp 

But maybe i should also buy the HiFiMan HE Adapter.


----------



## potkettleblack

Has anybody heard the 1266 with the liquid carbon?


----------



## potkettleblack

potkettleblack said:


> Has anybody heard the 1266 with the liquid carbon?


The above is a serious question.


----------



## Beolab

My short answer is yes, the Carbon actually drives the Abyss much better than I expected.  Here is what I've found so far:

In unity gain, the low frequency response of the pairing is a bit lacking in my opinion. Though the bass is still very fast, the entire signature might be considered too neutral... it's just not quite the visceral bass response we've come to expect from the Abyss. However, once thrown into 3X gain, the Carbon begins to show it's strengths. Much of the bass returns and anchors the signature nicely. I would definitely use the 3X gain mode for the Abyss, as it's a more enjoyable presentation. Detail is off-the-scale with both gain modes as the Carbon is very transparent and resolving of upstream detail.

Now, after having said all that, I still think that the Liquid Gold is the best amp to pair with the Abyss. In many ways, it almost seems like the Abyss and Liquid Gold were made for each other. If you can afford a Liquid Gold, definitely get that instead. If not, the Carbon will make a very reasonable substitute in the meantime.

Hope that helps?




potkettleblack said:


> The above is a serious question.


----------



## preproman

yoga said:


> I own the HiFiMan HE Adapter but need to get short speaker cable before trying it.


 
  
 You really don't need it.  I never used one, I used a lot of SS speaker amps with headphones including the 600i.  Time to find your DAC and enjoy the music that amp will put out.


----------



## Beolab

preproman said:


> You really don't need it.  I never used one, I used a lot of SS speaker amps with headphones including the 600i.  Time to find your DAC and enjoy the music that amp will put out.




Was it you who drove the HE-6 with a 
Krell 300i power amp without any Hifiman Adapter without problem?  

Intresting to here if you can test drive the two mono tube amps and what his judgement will be. 

I sitting with my finger on the place order button for the 250 watt ICE Power amp, bit i need aproval first that it is not any risk for my Abyss


----------



## Nik

(...) 

Now, after having said all that, I still think that the Liquid Gold is the best amp to pair with the Abyss. In many ways, it almost seems like the Abyss and Liquid Gold were made for each other. If you can afford a Liquid Gold, definitely get that instead. If not, the Carbon will make a very reasonable substitute in the meantime.

Hope that helps?
[/quote]

What other amplifiers have compared with the Cavalli ? I don't think the Goldmund for example...


----------



## Beolab

Lau is the most commonly matched partner for the Abyss, but then it exists thousands of amps that can drive the abyss like the GSX-2 , Goldmund , Sim Audio Moon amps, Woo Audio WA5 , and so on..


----------



## matthewhypolite

beolab said:


> Lau is the most commonly matched partner for the Abyss, but then it exists thousands of amps that can drive the abyss like the GSX-2 , Goldmund , Sim Audio Moon amps, Woo Audio WA5 , and so on..


 

 Add RSA Dark Star to that list.

  


nik said:


> (...)
> 
> Now, after having said all that, I still think that the Liquid Gold is the best amp to pair with the Abyss. In many ways, it almost seems like the Abyss and Liquid Gold were made for each other. If you can afford a Liquid Gold, definitely get that instead.


 
  
 They really do sound that way.


----------



## mulder01

beolab said:


> I sitting with my finger on the place order button for the 250 watt ICE Power amp, bit i need aproval first that it is not any risk for my Abyss


 
  
 Just don't turn the volume up very high?  It might be a bit annoying if the usable range on your volume knob is only from 6:00 to 9:00 or something - might be a bit tricky to get subtle changes in volume.  I guess you would need a pre amp that has good volume control down low.  
  
 Would using RCA's pre to power amp give you a lower level signal than XLR's too... maybe??


----------



## potkettleblack

beolab said:


> My short answer is yes, the Carbon actually drives the Abyss much better than I expected.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you mate


----------



## Yoga

preproman said:


> You really don't need it.  I never used one, I used a lot of SS speaker amps with headphones including the 600i.  Time to find your DAC and enjoy the music that amp will put out.


 
  
 Found it - Lumin A1. Incredible machine - when paired with the 600i and Abyss it's simply sublime.


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> Just don't turn the volume up very high?  It might be a bit annoying if the usable range on your volume knob is only from 6:00 to 9:00 or something - might be a bit tricky to get subtle changes in volume.  I guess you would need a pre amp that has good volume control down low.
> 
> Would using RCA's pre to power amp give you a lower level signal than XLR's too... maybe??




Hi i will be using the new upcoming $13k Chord DAVE as a pre-amp was my idea. 

I have many different amps, but i have not yet tryed Ice Powered Class D amps, just SS ant Tube.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

I would think a class D amp would be a bit too hard sounding for Abyss. They tend to excel with demanding low impedance loudspeakers, trouble is it's difficult to get them to sound smooth. Best ones I've heard so far have been tube hybrids. You would be better off with the LAu or Wells Audio if you're after complete bottom end control and speed.


----------



## Beolab

joe skubinski said:


> I would think a class D amp would be a bit too hard sounding for Abyss. They tend to excel with demanding low impedance loudspeakers, trouble is it's difficult to get them to sound smooth. Best ones I've heard so far have been tube hybrids. You would be better off with the LAu or Wells Audio if you're after complete bottom end control and speed.




But if you use a HifiMan speaker adapter then the amp just get 8 ohm impedance if i understand it correctly?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

That adaptor just keeps an 8 ohm load on the amp, which is fine but a bit excessive of a load for this purpose. I doubt it was designed for a 250 watt amplifier so expect to smell something out the adaptor during spirited listening.

In any case, having a load on the amp has little to do with the amps sound character into the Abyss, and I highly doubt that style of amp is going to do them right. I also think it's a bad idea to use such a large speaker amp on headphones, since it's not designed to protect a headphone and has relatively unlimited power, the probability of damage is high.


----------



## Beolab

This was merely a speculation, and im great full for your advice and your thoughts Joe! 

I got the idea when i read about the Abyss + Sim Audio Moon 600i amp with 125 watts in 8 Ohm, that kind of power should also be dangerous for the headphones, but i have almost tested all amps, and still searching , so maybe the Headtrip can suite me


----------



## Yoga

The Moon 600i (and I'm sure many other amps) have the ability to set a volume limit per input. I have the volume limited to 45 (rather than the default 80), which is a loudness level I never need to exceed. That will stop accidental overload.


----------



## Hi-Phi

Hey guys, what's your favorite aftermarket cable to use with the Abyss and why would you recommend it- (sound improvements)?


----------



## Beolab

I have listening to the Nordost Heimdahl cable, Moon Audio Silver Dragon for the Abyss, and i think the sound gets a little to bright in my oppinion, so the org. JPS Labs $1200 cable i think is the best overal, but i havent had the chance to listen to the 4 Spore or the $3900 SuperConductur cable from JPS Labs yet, but they will most likely put off a layer or two, for the overall resolution.


----------



## mulder01

I am yet to see a USD retail price on the superconductors.  I'm guessing around $2k for the shorter length.


----------



## Nik

With the Superconductor you will listen to another Abyss... This cable needs several days of burn in before reveling all his power... Yes, I know it is a hi price cable, but I think you do not find nothing better...


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> I am yet to see a USD retail price on the superconductors.  I'm guessing around $2k for the shorter length.




For 2k incl VAT i think many can be interested in the SuperConductur Joe, but $3900 ? ;( 

What is the listing price for the different length of the Superconductor incl VAT ?


----------



## Hi-Phi

I think that's probably in another currency. I can confirm that I have seen it for sale for around 2k USD. Thanks for the 2 cents. So the superconductor tops the 4 spore and the like, you think?


----------



## mulder01

Keep in mind that $3899 is AUD retail for the 1.8m, and prices on head fi are normally stated in USD... 
If you go check the DHC site and see the spore4 from $999 it seems like a bargain - was almost ready to buy and try one myself until I did the math:
$999 is actually the complement4, spore4 is a $600 upgrade, 6ft cable is an extra $300 so we're at $1900, wouldn't surprise me if a courier was around the $100 mark so it's at 2k USD. Convert that to AUD and it's $2725. We have to pay GST and import duties on anything over $1000 so it ends up at around $3175 actual cost for me to buy their top level cable of the same length. Plus a 3 month wait. 

If I was to buy a JPS SCHP cable locally and ask nicely, I could probably get it for closer to $3500 (which admittedly is still a bit more), but I wouldn't have to wait, I'd be able to demo it (and I'd probably go for the shorter length anyway which is $600 less). And if you buy into the whole idea of 'synergy' then you're buying a cable that has been specifically made to pair with the Abyss sound signature vs. a universal one made to go with anything. 

I'm not in a position to spend $$$ on a cable upgrade at the moment anyway, but that was my thought process.
I think anyone who's seriously looking at a spore4 should consider the JPS cable as well because the price difference may not be as significant as it seems.

Don't know of anyone who has ordered multiple brands of aftermarket Abyss cables to compare though.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

mulder01's reasoning is sound.

In the US retail of the Superconductor HP cable set begins at $2200 for 1.2 meter/4 ft, add $400 for every 0.6 meter/ 2 ft., and in other countries add duties, taxes, and shipping to exchange rate.

Designing high performance audio cables from scratch is an art.

The Super HP is a larger stranded twisted pair, 3 times more conductor than the stock cable. Our Alumiloy conductor is not like copper or silver, it has unique properties. It's weight is not a factor so long as your not bridging 8 ft of cable in the air. The cable's overall weight was balanced out with lightweight materials to mate with the AB-1266.

This cable design cannot be made by machine so is hand assembled from the inside out. The outer jacket is composed of two materials, a soft tubular dielectric prevents vibration from traveling through the cable, and a soft woven outer jacket which further dampens resonances and prevents movement of the cable against the body from interfering with the sound. It's a soft quiet cable.

All of this is assembled properly, there are no heat shrinks on the outside of the cable, all strain reliefs are inside the connectors. This is not easy to make, particularly with the mini 3 pin connectors at the headphone end (which is why you see aftermarket cable guys having ~10 centimeters of heat shrink at the headphone, making the cable stiff and giving it leverage to pull the headphone). While labor intensive, we have the assembly down.

The clarity level of this cable is excellent, yet it does not get bright, a dramatic resolution increase to which the AB-1266 just begs for more.


----------



## sathyam

joe skubinski said:


> mulder01's reasoning is sound.
> 
> In the US retail of the Superconductor HP cable set begins at $2200 for 1.2 meter/4 ft, add $400 for every 0.6 meter/ 2 ft., and in other countries add duties, taxes, and shipping to exchange rate.
> 
> ...




Joe, 

Where can we buy one of these cables in the US?


----------



## HighNFidelity

http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Superconductor-HP-Cable


----------



## Joe Skubinski

We need to flush this out... Where the hell does this come from?



mikemercer said:


> I'm with Peter here.
> 
> I think the ABYSS reproduce INSANE bass - in a good way, and they got sparkly up-top.
> It's just, for me, they lack soul in the most vital part of the audible spectrum: the midrange!!


----------



## mulder01

The mids comment?
  
 I think some people like their mids a bit more 'in-your-face'.  Personally, I think you hear just as much detail but it's presented in a more relaxed way rather than aggressively - which is how I prefer it.  I suppose if you have conditioned your hearing to be used to something like the hd800, mids would seem recessed by comparison.
  
 My guess anyway.


----------



## Nik

I'm still waiting for the new Goldmund THA2 to tell you how it goes with the Abyss binaural listening, I will also HE 1000, which everyone says have one of the medium's most beautiful, and engaging music, fantastic female voices, they say. 
I will tell you so if the average of the Abyss comparing face just so disgusting. Both headsets will be made in express terms to the maximum, Goldmund THA2, Viva 845, Vitus SCD 025, wiring Nordost Odin, Abyss with Superconductor cable. See you soon...


----------



## Yoga

Mids were never a standout feature of the Abyss for me; that was occupied by bass and soundstage. 
  
 That changed entirely with the Moon 600i. It quite literally transformed them. Mids are now delicious and smooth, as is the treble. Holographic sound now. No fatigue whatsoever on AC/DC or Van Morrison albums (great tests for such). The Abyss with the Ragnarok (and Hugo) was not a pleasant experience, I literally couldn't listen to Van Morrison without feeling abused.
  
 I can imagine certain high end tube amplifiers having the same effect; VIVA 2A3/845 and Woo 5/234.
  
 (FWIW The 600i outperforms the Eddie Current 2A3MK4 with better controlled dynamic power. The EC was quite bloomy, edges seemed to bleed at higher volumes.)


----------



## mulder01

yoga said:


> The Abyss with the Ragnarok (and Hugo) was not a pleasant experience, I literally couldn't listen to Van Morrison without feeling abused.


 
  
 That's a bit ..._harsh_


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> That's a bit ..._harsh_


 
  
 Perforated eardrum levels... :¬)


----------



## banger

About the mids:
  
 Firstly my Abyss are new, so I reserve the right to change these comments a bit. Only 34 hours to date but continue to burn in on my new LG which is also burning in with 100 hours so far. I have been A/B testing between the Abyss and the HEK. The Abyss using the 4 pin XLR, because I bought the light version with an eye towards getting the Superconductor HP. The HEK using one of the SE outputs. I will go to the 4 pin for the HEK and two 3 pin XLR's when my loaner Superconductor gets here. First I believe I have the Abyss fit dialed in pretty well but I did have to us the "zip tie" mod, but using 2 zip ties on each side to keep the headphones centered on my head. Using only one zip tie makes the frame tilt forward or backward depending on how you installed them. Anyway, back to initial impressions.The HEK is a fantastic sounding headphone on the LG. Instruments and vocals are very close and intimate, but also placed very well around the sound stage. The base is there and quite good, for a headphone. When switching to the Abyss, first thing noticed is little to no clamping pressure, and the soundstage is pushed out further than HEK's. This also pushes out the instruments and vocals, and at the same time introduces the delicious almost edible bass that only the Abyss can deliver. If you have never heard a properly fitted Abyss in the quite setting that only your home listening area can deliver, that bass at first I think tends to dominate everything that you were hearing in any other headphone, not just the HEK. Mostly because it's a new sensation that no other HP can deliver. Giving the sensation of what some are perceiving as a "recessed" mid range. I also have to increase the volume about 4 to 5 points to bring the sound level up to what I perceive as the same level as the HEK. Which in turn brings the midrange and instruments back in a bit. Still not as close as the HEK, but I really like it. I am listening to every kind of music I can dig up. With the exception of Country and Classical. BTW I am using the Wyred4Sound DAC2 DSDse's remote volume output level control as a pre instead of turning the dial on the LG. Let's me see in digit form exactly how much more volume level I need between the two.
  
 So, far I don't have too many complaints about the Abyss, aside from fiddling with the fit for so long. But it is something that must be done to deliver the sound that the Abyss is capable of. And as many have said, you really need to bring a good amp to the table if you want to fully realize the capability of the Abyss, which the LG does. To me it truly is a head speaker vs a head phone. And sounds accordingly. I've only ever heard one speaker deliver the kind of detail and intimacy a top flight headphone system can deliver, and they were around 250K backed up by appropriately priced sources and amplification. The Abyss brings both worlds as close together as possible to date I think. Still a lot of listening to do as burn in continues. Having a lot of fun with the process.


----------



## Beolab

banger said:


> About the mids:
> 
> Firstly my Abyss are new, so I reserve the right to change these comments a bit. Only 34 hours to date but continue to burn in on my new LG which is also burning in with 100 hours so far. I have been A/B testing between the Abyss and the HEK. The Abyss using the 4 pin XLR, because I bought the light version with an eye towards getting the Superconductor HP. The HEK using one of the SE outputs. I will go to the 4 pin for the HEK and two 3 pin XLR's when my loaner Superconductor gets here. First I believe I have the Abyss fit dialed in pretty well but I did have to us the "zip tie" mod, but using 2 zip ties on each side to keep the headphones centered on my head. Using only one zip tie makes the frame tilt forward or backward depending on how you installed them. Anyway, back to initial impressions.The HEK is a fantastic sounding headphone on the LG. Instruments and vocals are very close and intimate, but also placed very well around the sound stage. The base is there and quite good, for a headphone. When switching to the Abyss, first thing noticed is little to no clamping pressure, and the soundstage is pushed out further than HEK's. This also pushes out the instruments and vocals, and at the same time introduces the delicious almost edible bass that only the Abyss can deliver. If you have never heard a properly fitted Abyss in the quite setting that only your home listening area can deliver, that bass at first I think tends to dominate everything that you were hearing in any other headphone, not just the HEK. Mostly because it's a new sensation that no other HP can deliver. Giving the sensation of what some are perceiving as a "recessed" mid range. I also have to increase the volume about 4 to 5 points to bring the sound level up to what I perceive as the same level as the HEK. Which in turn brings the midrange and instruments back in a bit. Still not as close as the HEK, but I really like it. I am listening to every kind of music I can dig up. With the exception of Country and Classical. BTW I am using the Wyred4Sound DAC2 DSDse's remote volume output level control as a pre instead of turning the dial on the LG. Let's me see in digit form exactly how much more volume level I need between the two.
> 
> So, far I don't have too many complaints about the Abyss, aside from fiddling with the fit for so long. But it is something that must be done to deliver the sound that the Abyss is capable of. And as many have said, you really need to bring a good amp to the table if you want to fully realize the capability of the Abyss, which the LC does. To me it truly is a head speaker vs a head phone. And sounds accordingly. I've only ever heard one speaker deliver the kind of detail and intimacy a top flight headphone system can deliver, and they were around 250K backed up by appropriately priced sources and amplification. The Abyss brings both worlds as close together as possible to date I think. Still a lot of listening to do as burn in continues. Having a lot of fun with the process.




Nice!!

LG = ??? AMP

You are meaning LC = Cavalli Liquid Carbon right?


----------



## banger

beolab said:


> Nice!!
> 
> LG = ??? AMP
> 
> You are meaning LC = Cavalli Liquid Carbon right?


 
 LG = Cavalli Liquid Gold. Put one LC instead of LG in my original post. Now corrected. 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Beolab

banger said:


> LG = Cavalli Liquid Gold. Put one LC instead of LG in my original post. Now corrected.
> 
> Cheers!




I know  , but you wrote further down in the text LC ?? A bit confusing, or do you own a LC also ? 

Quote: Good amp to the table if you want to fully realize the capability of the Abyss, which the LC does. To me it truly is a head speaker vs a head phone.


----------



## Beolab

@banger 

Do you own a LC and a LG if i understand you correctly ?


----------



## banger

No just the LG. Sorry for the confusion...meanwhile, just got the Superconductor HP cables in. Will need to spend some quality time with them before I can comment.


----------



## Nik

It is absolutely necessary to make a good burn in of Superconductor, it is initially closed and congested, but when ready transforms the Abyss ...


----------



## Beolab

banger said:


> No just the LG. Sorry for the confusion...meanwhile, just got the Superconductor HP cables in. Will need to spend some quality time with them before I can comment.




Very intresting on what your impressions would be, because im going to order the HP also if its turn out nicely and sound better than 4spore and the rest of the pack. 

Is the HP cable in a dark blue textile or? , i have a hard time to see how it realy looks from the pictures. 

And if the HP are much more stiffer/ rigid than the original ?


----------



## Nik




----------



## Beolab

Thanks Bic for the pictures, they seem to be black or?


----------



## Nik

Yes, black!


----------



## Fririce0003

I had the chance to listen to the Abyss and Viva Egoista combination a couple of weeks ago. Being a WA234 owner and hearing the Viva may be rather close competition for it I was very keen to finally have a chance to listen and went in expecting great things. I can now sleep soundly with my choice of the 234's now though, I must admit while as a whole the Viva did sound good, it was no where near the level I had become accustomed to with the right tubes in the 234's. Don't get me wrong, the Viva did sound nice but compared to the 234's it was lacking in a number of key areas.
   Firstly was the transparency and texture of the music, the Egoista while having plenty of power sounded far too heavy handed and overpowering of the music. It lacked the finer details that the 234's could convey, the Egoista seemed to put its own veil on the music causing the tracks to start sounding overly similar. The sound had plenty of midrange and warmth, but it was over accentuated to the point of feeling bloated and smeared. Another thing that struck me was that the Viva, while certainly powerful, didn't have the same impact and speed that the 234's had. While the speed and impact is comparable between the Egoista and the 234's using the Cathode Output, when you switch the 234's to Plate Output the impact, speed and sheer energy of the sound takes a massive leap ahead of the Cathode and Egoista. Using the plate output can make the HEK almost as impactful as the Abyss when using the cathode output. Which is no small feat, while I prefer the transparency of the HEK the Abyss is indisputably the most impactful and energetic headphone out there.
   Compared to other amplifiers I've heard; Cavalli LAu, Cyper Labs Prautes,  Luxman P-700u, Schiit Ragnarok or owned WA5, Headamp GS-X MKII. The Viva Egoista does sound better overall. But when compared to the 234's with stock tubes they're about on par, the 234 being more refined,  the Egoista being more powerful. But roll in some good tubes to the 234's; EML 45's or 2A3's, some Elrog's or Takatsuki 300b's and some Takatsuki 274b's or Mullard Metal Base GZ34's, and the 234's are in another league.
   Another gripe I had with the Egoista is the heat that it runs at, now I expect tubes to run hot, but on the Egoista even the volume knob and rear terminals heat up to uncomfortable levels. When I had a listen the Egoista had been on for a couple of hours, while the volume knob wasn't painful to hold and use, it did get to the point where it would case a little discomfort when held onto for more than a couple seconds. Kind of like getting into a car that's been parked in the sun for a couple hours and grabbing the gear stick. It's not so hot as to burn you or stop you from changing gears. But it's not pleasant, you certainly wouldn't want to rest your hand there.
  
   Also on a tangent I got to hear the Abyss using the new JPS Labs Super Conductor cable, it was an improvement over the stock cable. Though for my personal tastes I still do prefer the Spore4 cables with the Abyss from when I heard the pairing last. The ones I currently have are terminated to suit the HEK but I wish I had brought in my Abyss adaptors and Spore4 cable to do a proper side by side.


----------



## Yoga

Another great write up / comparison Matt, thanks.
  
 I assume you're selling the 234 + DaVinci to fund the MSB Select purchase? :¬)


----------



## Fririce0003

yoga said:


> Another great write up / comparison Matt, thanks.
> 
> I assume you're selling the 234 + DaVinci to fund the MSB Select purchase? :¬)


 
  
 Hahaha, I wish that were the case! Unfortunately I may have to be taking a brief exit from the HiFi scene, I've brought a block of land and need to raise funds for a deposit on the new build as well as to do renovations on my current house to prepare it for rental. Though I'm currently looking at other financial alternatives. But all of them still require me moving my speakers and DAC to fund the renovations at least.


----------



## Yoga

fririce0003 said:


> Hahaha, I wish that were the case! Unfortunately I may have to be taking a brief exit from the HiFi scene, I've brought a block of land and need to raise funds for a deposit on the new build as well as to do renovations on my current house to prepare it for rental. Though I'm currently looking at other financial alternatives. But all of them still require me moving my speakers and DAC to fund the renovations at least.


 

 Good luck with the builds!


----------



## Joe Skubinski

We had the Egoista in our room at RMAF this year, as well as the Woo 234 and others. Both of these amps are the best of the best, and I agree that the 234 with top shelf tubes really does the Abyss justice. One thing to note though is the bloated, congested sound you heard from the Egoista. As with all headphone gear cables are critical to getting the best out, but with single ended amps, and in particular the Egoista, they are very particular of the AC cables. We went through 5 different JPS power cords on that amp, as well as on the source Sony HAP-Z1ES player, and man does that amp vary wildly with cords!


----------



## superfred21

I heard the Egoista, Woo 234 and I have a preference for Egoista. Of course with high-end tubes as EML 45; Takatsuki 300b; Base Metal Mullard GZ34 yes Woo 234 impresses, though it lacks the dynamics egoista.
 The original tubes of Egoista are not very good but the use of a BGRP 6SN7; Osram B 65; Psvan replica 845; 845 RCA; KR 845 we find the same level of transparency from 234 Woo.
 Egoista heats enormously, far more than the 234 Woo.
 Abyss + Egoista my favorite duo.


----------



## isquirrel

fririce0003 said:


> I had the chance to listen to the Abyss and Viva Egoista combination a couple of weeks ago. Being a WA234 owner and hearing the Viva may be rather close competition for it I was very keen to finally have a chance to listen and went in expecting great things. I can now sleep soundly with my choice of the 234's now though, I must admit while as a whole the Viva did sound good, it was no where near the level I had become accustomed to with the right tubes in the 234's. Don't get me wrong, the Viva did sound nice but compared to the 234's it was lacking in a number of key areas.
> Firstly was the transparency and texture of the music, the Egoista while having plenty of power sounded far too heavy handed and overpowering of the music. It lacked the finer details that the 234's could convey, the Egoista seemed to put its own veil on the music causing the tracks to start sounding overly similar. The sound had plenty of midrange and warmth, but it was over accentuated to the point of feeling bloated and smeared. Another thing that struck me was that the Viva, while certainly powerful, didn't have the same impact and speed that the 234's had. While the speed and impact is comparable between the Egoista and the 234's using the Cathode Output, when you switch the 234's to Plate Output the impact, speed and sheer energy of the sound takes a massive leap ahead of the Cathode and Egoista. Using the plate output can make the HEK almost as impactful as the Abyss when using the cathode output. Which is no small feat, while I prefer the transparency of the HEK the Abyss is indisputably the most impactful and energetic headphone out there.
> Compared to other amplifiers I've heard; Cavalli LAu, Cyper Labs Prautes,  Luxman P-700u, Schiit Ragnarok or owned WA5, Headamp GS-X MKII. The Viva Egoista does sound better overall. But when compared to the 234's with stock tubes they're about on par, the 234 being more refined,  the Egoista being more powerful. But roll in some good tubes to the 234's; EML 45's or 2A3's, some Elrog's or Takatsuki 300b's and some Takatsuki 274b's or Mullard Metal Base GZ34's, and the 234's are in another league.
> Another gripe I had with the Egoista is the heat that it runs at, now I expect tubes to run hot, but on the Egoista even the volume knob and rear terminals heat up to uncomfortable levels. When I had a listen the Egoista had been on for a couple of hours, while the volume knob wasn't painful to hold and use, it did get to the point where it would case a little discomfort when held onto for more than a couple seconds. Kind of like getting into a car that's been parked in the sun for a couple hours and grabbing the gear stick. It's not so hot as to burn you or stop you from changing gears. But it's not pleasant, you certainly wouldn't want to rest your hand there.
> ...


 

 Great write up as usual Matt, I am looking forward to doing the comparison myself, I have yet to find anyone who has done a stock for stock comparison who prefers the Egoista. The concern about heat is a valid one, why is it running so hot, it must be the transformer in which case one wonders about the service life of that part. Not to mention it represents a fire risk.  I agree with your findings re the JPS Abyss cables, however at this level it all about personal preferences and you have an amount of experience to your headphone listening which few can equal. Hope the new house goes well, see you soon.


----------



## isquirrel

joe skubinski said:


> We had the Egoista in our room at RMAF this year, as well as the Woo 234 and others. Both of these amps are the best of the best, and I agree that the 234 with top shelf tubes really does the Abyss justice. One thing to note though is the bloated, congested sound you heard from the Egoista. As with all headphone gear cables are critical to getting the best out, but with single ended amps, and in particular the Egoista, they are very particular of the AC cables. We went through 5 different JPS power cords on that amp, as well as on the source Sony HAP-Z1ES player, and man does that amp vary wildly with cords!


 

 I don't doubt this, however this all points to poor power rectification and rectification and filtering, I bet the voltage that the transformer is designed to run off is a double up, in which case it will be 10-15% out of sync with our voltage. Same applies to the 234's Joe, you put on decent power cords to that and wow, in fact I have heard them with some high end JPS, (not sure what they were!) and was impressed.


----------



## isquirrel

What are the ideal valves in the 234 amp for the Abyss in your opinion Matt?


----------



## Beolab

Can you guys describe your impressions on the diffrence btw 4spore vs Superconducter HP would be very intresting to hear. 

I will place an order on the SuperConductur HP cable, but it is always interesting to here what the 4spore brings to the table, that the HP doesn't?


----------



## Nik

Binaural chip, a must for headphones listening...


----------



## Beolab

nik said:


> Binaural chip, a must for headphones listening...




Binaural chip = ???


----------



## Nik

Binaural selector...


----------



## Yoga

Surely that would only benefit if the audio was recorded binaurally?


----------



## Nik

No, just the opposite: fits for all normal recordings and takes off for all binaural recordings ... (You can read this in the owner manual...)


----------



## CaptainCB

What is that device in the pic?

And can anyone speak to the question regarding the spore4 vs the superconductor hp cables? (Maybe no one has both get??)


----------



## Nik

In the pic the best SS amplifier for the Abyss 1266 : Goldmund THA2!!!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Got the AK 380AMP to drive Abyss in Balanced Mode. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 More pics to come...


----------



## bmichels

nik said:


> Binaural chip, a must for headphones listening...




I carefully tested the binaural feature of the THA-2 in a quite environement and.... I could not Hear a difference between binaural ON and OFF ! ( neither could the dealer). 

Do you Hear a real difference ?


----------



## Nik

Yes, there are differences... But not always positive... 
Which headphones did you used for the test?


----------



## potkettleblack

Lads - can any of you provide the cost of the new abyss cables?


----------



## mulder01

potkettleblack, Joe mentioned 2 pages ago -
  
 "In the US retail of the Superconductor HP cable set begins at $2200 for 1.2 meter/4 ft, add $400 for every 0.6 meter/ 2 ft., and in other countries add duties, taxes, and shipping to exchange rate."
  
  
 Mike - How much power comes out of the AK380 AMP?  Do you feel like it's enough?


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> potkettleblack, Joe mentioned 2 pages ago -
> 
> 
> "In the US retail of the Superconductor HP cable set begins at $2200 for 1.2 meter/4 ft, add $400 for every 0.6 meter/ 2 ft., and in other countries add duties, taxes, and shipping to exchange rate."
> ...




The AK Amp supports high-impedance headphones and high-gain output while remaining faithful to the original sound.

Main Features:

Expansion-type amplifier with design unity
3,400 mAh large-capacity battery
Supports up to nine hours of continuous unbalanced-output playback
8.1 VRMS high-gain balanced output
4.1 VRMS unbalanced output
Convenient Portability

8.1 Vrms is pretty good , but we dont know at what impedance this is measured.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

While I'm not a fan of shootouts, this one someone spent some time on, more like 5 reviews in one, and an easy read...

https://audiobacon.net/2015/12/14/ultra-high-end-full-size-open-headphone-shootout/


----------



## Yoga

joe skubinski said:


> While I'm not a fan of shootouts, this one someone spent some time on, more like 5 reviews in one, and an easy read...
> 
> https://audiobacon.net/2015/12/14/ultra-high-end-full-size-open-headphone-shootout/


 

 Whoever that is, I pretty much agree entirely.
  
 I can't listen to any other headphones now, they just don't do it for me. I heard a £150K setup a couple of weeks ago - I genuinely preferred my Abyss setup (although I didn't say that at the time for obvious reasons) :¬)
  
 Happy days indeed.


----------



## potkettleblack

yoga said:


> Whoever that is, I pretty much agree entirely.
> 
> I can't listen to any other headphones now, they just don't do it for me. I heard a £150K setup a couple of weeks ago - I genuinely preferred my Abyss setup (although I didn't say that at the time for obvious reasons) :¬)
> 
> Happy days indeed.


Sent you a query in PM's if you wouldn't mind having a look.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

yoga said:


> Whoever that is, I pretty much agree entirely.
> 
> I can't listen to any other headphones now, they just don't do it for me. I heard a £150K setup a couple of weeks ago - I genuinely preferred my Abyss setup (although I didn't say that at the time for obvious reasons) :¬)
> 
> Happy days indeed.


 
  
 +1
  
 I own 200+ pairs of headphones and not one compares to Abyss in dynamics, authority, and the BIG SPEAKERS sound. Once you have a good fit, the headphones disappears and you're left with incredible Hi-Fi quality. I rarely use my Focal Mezzo Utopia + McIntosh system anymore...
  
 AK380+380AMP in balanced mode sounds good with Abyss, but the amp does not have enough power to ROCK OUT. Sound quality is best at moderate listening level in LOW gain, volume at MAX. For those who don't listen LOUD, this combo is acceptable. I love the form-factor of 380+380amp so I am OK with the limited performance with Abyss. AK 380AMP is $699 retail.


----------



## bmichels

hifiguy528 said:


> AK380+380AMP in balanced mode sounds good with Abyss, *but the amp does not have enough power to ROCK OUT...*


 
 looks like you need the Vinnie mod to your AK-AMP


----------



## Beolab

bmichels said:


> looks like you need the Vinnie mod to your AK-AMP




Vinnie mod ? Is it a tweak for more power or ?


----------



## mulder01

yoga said:


> Whoever that is, I pretty much agree entirely.
> 
> I can't listen to any other headphones now, they just don't do it for me. I heard a £150K setup a couple of weeks ago - I genuinely preferred my Abyss setup (although I didn't say that at the time for obvious reasons) :¬)
> 
> Happy days indeed.


 
  
 I also found the problem of not being able to listen to anything else - I went to buy some IEMs not too long ago and they all seemed very average - even the very high end ones.  The guy at a2a says to me 'you do realise you're kidding yourself if you think you're going to get anywhere near the quality of the abyss" ...I knew they would fall short by a bit, but not by a mile.  I even purposely didn't listen to the abyss for a week or two before auditioning, hoping to take advantage of our short sonic memory and have a clean slate and no super high reference point.  Didn't work.

 When you say £150K setup, you mean speakers, yeah?


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> I also found the problem of not being able to listen to anything else - I went to buy some IEMs not too long ago and they all seemed very average - even the very high end ones.  The guy at a2a says to me 'you do realise you're kidding yourself if you think you're going to get anywhere near the quality of the abyss" ...I knew they would fall short by a bit, but not by a mile.  I even purposely didn't listen to the abyss for a week or two before auditioning, hoping to take advantage of our short sonic memory and have a clean slate and no super high reference point.  Didn't work.
> 
> When you say £150K setup, you mean speakers, yeah?


 

 That puts me off spending ££ on IEMs. I'll stick to the Yamahas on the road.
  
 Yes, TOTL Solution gear and some horn speakers that apparently Vladimir Putin uses (the name escapes me).


----------



## mulder01

yoga said:


> That puts me off spending ££ on IEMs. I'll stick to the Yamahas on the road.
> 
> Yes, TOTL Solution gear and some horn speakers that apparently Vladimir Putin uses (the name escapes me).


 
  
 Yeah I was a bit disappointed, I figure I may as well spend $100 on earbuds that I'm not particularly thrilled about instead of $3000 on earbuds that I'm not particularly thrilled about...
 YMMV though...
  
 hahaha @ the same speakers that Vladimir Putin uses
 maybe hit up google for an answer to that one....


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> Yeah I was a bit disappointed, I figure I may as well spend $100 on earbuds that I'm not particularly thrilled about instead of $3000 on earbuds that I'm not particularly thrilled about...
> YMMV though...
> 
> hahaha @ the same speakers that Vladimir Putin uses
> maybe hit up google for an answer to that one....


 

 Haha!
  
 Yes exactly. Have a look at the Yamaha EPH100. Had them 2-3 years now and they've been flawless.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

beolab said:


> Vinnie mod ? Is it a tweak for more power or ?


 
  
 I'm already on it. In discussion with Vini about the mods.


----------



## Beolab

hifiguy528 said:


> I'm already on it. In discussion with Vini about the mods.




And what exactly is the mod Vinnie has in his sleve ? 
Oh, and Marry Christmas to all of you! 
:santa_tone1::santa_tone1:


----------



## aphex27

Hi all,
  
 can this drive the AB-1266?
  
 ELECTRONIC SPECIFICATIONS  

TOTAL HARMONIC DISTORTION 0.0015%
FREQUENCY RESPONSE +/-0.5dB from 4Hz to 20,000Hz
 +0.5/-3dB from 4Hz to 68,000Hz (Source dependent)
MAXIMUM VOLTS OUT (BALANCED / UNBALANCED) 16/8 V RMS
INPUT IMPEDANCE (BALANCED / UNBALANCED) 44K ohm, 22K ohm
PHONO VOLTAGE GAIN N/A

HIGH LEVEL VOLTAGE GAIN N/A
SIGNAL TO NOISE RATIO 110dB
DUAL MONO POWER SUPPLY No
DUAL MONO, FULLY BALANCED Digital, Fully Balanced


----------



## Beolab

With 16volt at 44 k ohms it should not be a problem at all! 

Not the best , but in the middle of head amps in power rating. 

What brand/model is it?


----------



## aphex27

beolab said:


> With 16volt at 44 k ohms it should not be a problem at all!
> 
> Not the best , but in the middle of head amps in power rating.
> 
> What brand/model is it?


 

 Thanks 
 Its a Mcintosh D100


----------



## mulder01

?
That seems like more of a dac and pre amp to go with their power amps. Kinda looks to me like they've put a headphone out on it for convenience, but it's not primarily a headphone amp. 

Are you buying this amp for a speaker setup? Or just headphones? If it's going to be a dedicated headphone amp, I would think your money could be better spent on something else... Or if you are buying a power amp with this to power your speakers, you may be able to power the Abyss from the speaker outs of that. There is a thread on 'speaker amps for headphones' if you are thinking of going that way. Or shoot Joe a PM with a specific model no of the power amp you're looking at and he can give you some idea of how safe it will be.

Mind you, I've not heard the thing, but it just looks like you might be looking down the wrong track. Especially when Mcintosh's purpose built headphone amp hasn't got the best reviews, and this is not likely to perform as well since it's just integrated into a dac/pre amp combo...


----------



## Beolab

*ABYSS IS SANTAS No.1 CHOICE *


----------



## potkettleblack

beolab said:


> *ABYSS IS SANTAS No.1 CHOICE *


 I went to Santas grotto this year


----------



## aphex27

mulder01 said:


> ?
> That seems like more of a dac and pre amp to go with their power amps. Kinda looks to me like they've put a headphone out on it for convenience, but it's not primarily a headphone amp.
> 
> Are you buying this amp for a speaker setup? Or just headphones? If it's going to be a dedicated headphone amp, I would think your money could be better spent on something else... Or if you are buying a power amp with this to power your speakers, you may be able to power the Abyss from the speaker outs of that. There is a thread on 'speaker amps for headphones' if you are thinking of going that way. Or shoot Joe a PM with a specific model no of the power amp you're looking at and he can give you some idea of how safe it will be.
> ...


 

 From a WhatHiFi review: "Remove the lid and you’ll find a spacious arrangement with separate boards for the power supply, number crunching circuitry and analogue output stage. Take a look on the output stage board and you’ll see a dedicated headphone-amp circuit, which, in part at least, accounts for the fine performance of this output. It’s not unusual to see the headphone feed taken off the main outputs with the minimum of finessing.
 Read more at http://www.whathifi.com/mcintosh/d100/review#5MVTvszYXosQly50.99


----------



## mulder01

aphex27 said:


> From a WhatHiFi review: "Remove the lid and you’ll find a spacious arrangement with separate boards for the power supply, number crunching circuitry and analogue output stage. Take a look on the output stage board and you’ll see a dedicated headphone-amp circuit, which, in part at least, accounts for the fine performance of this output. It’s not unusual to see the headphone feed taken off the main outputs with the minimum of finessing.
> Read more at http://www.whathifi.com/mcintosh/d100/review#5MVTvszYXosQly50.99


 
  
 Totally up to you, just an observation


----------



## HiFiGuy528

beolab said:


> *ABYSS IS SANTAS No.1 CHOICE *


 
  
 Beautiful! Santa has great taste in audio.


----------



## Beolab

Have a tuff decision to make  

Should i order the Wells Audio HeadTrip, Enigma , Moon 600i, Cavalli Lau , the heater Viva Egoista , Woo-Audio WA5 or the 234 mono? 

What amp have the best drive / dynamics from 1-2 watts and up? 

(My Dacś is a Chord DAVE , MSB Analog, Chord Hugo and a battery powered W4s Remedy femto jitter reducer Re-clocker / Regen what i will be using. 

Source: Auralic Aries and BlueSound Node II MQA ready. )

I have got a nice deal from Jeff on a HeadTrip , but im unserten.


----------



## Rhamnetin

beolab said:


> Have a tuff decision to make
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 WA5 and WA-234 both have excellent dynamics.  I can't say with certainty which is better though, since I haven't owned both at the same time (extended listening would be needed).  I don't think I could ever justify the cost of the 234 though, with the WA5 being so good (and with it being a speaker amp as well).  The AB-1266 paired with the WA-234 is really something though. 
  
 I'd expect nothing less than excellent dynamics from the LAu based on its reputation.


----------



## Yoga

Your first decision needs to be SS or tubes. From there you have two options, 600i or Woo 234 (if you get the WA5, you'll want the 234 eventually) ;¬)
  
 A used 600i will set you back around $3.5K to $4K. They're rare on the used market which is always a good sign.
  


> I had high expectations for the 600i based on my previous experience with Simaudio’s integrated amplifiers, but that didn’t prepare me for just how great this amplifier sounded. Dropping the 600i into a world-class, reference-quality system (including the $97,500 Rockport Altair loudspeakers), I was startled not just by the 600i’s specific sonic attributes, but by its sheer ability to communicate musical expression. And this was with the 600i replacing $145k worth of BAlabo preamplifier and amplifier—a tough act to follow if ever there was one. The 600i never failed to involve me in the performances, encouraged long listening sessions, and continued to reveal strengths over the weeks the amplifier was in my system—all signs of a great product.


 
  
 From this TAS review: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/simaudio-moon-600i-tas-210-1/
  
 I'm done with audio hunting now, Abyss + 600i + A1 is as good as I'll ever need. I get totally lost in music, the sound is sublime. I've said it before but I'll say it again; the Abyss have been transformed. I heard a serious speaker system recently (over $200K) and I honestly preferred my setup, which, in total, cost about $14K. Just goes to show how subjective it all is. I was expecting to be blown away, but I wasn't. I left a very happy bunny indeed :¬)
  
 Each to their own of course, I'm sure there are people happy with the Abyss and all of your suggestions. 

 An important one - get your computer out of the equation. The Lumin A1 has been a revelation.


----------



## Beolab

yoga said:


> Your first decision needs to be SS or tubes. From there you have two options, 600i or Woo 234 (if you get the WA5, you'll want the 234 eventually) ;¬)
> 
> A used 600i will set you back around $3.5K to $4K. They're rare on the used market which is always a good sign.
> 
> ...




I like the sound of tubes, but like the simplicity of SS no tube rolling. 

So if you compared the HeadTrip to any SS amp incl Moon 600i the 600i are like to compare a sporty Lexus to a Ferrari or how big is the leap in your own opinion?


----------



## Yoga

beolab said:


> I like the sound of tubes, but like the simplicity of SS no tube rolling.
> 
> So if you compared the HeadTrip to any SS amp incl Moon 600i the 600i are like to compare a sporty Lexus to a Ferrari or how big is the leap in your own opinion?


 
  
 Same here. Tubes would be a black hole to me in terms of money, enjoyment and time. It's been wonderful to sit back in the study and listen to full albums without any inclination to upgrade. I don't think I could do that with tubes. Then there's changing tubes for different genres. Not for me personally, but I can see why some people enjoy  it :¬)
  
 The Abyss are incredibly source dependent. Thinking back to the Abyss with the Ragnarok and Hugo - it was horrific. Harsh and soulless. The A1 and 600i offer a wonderfully analogue, musical sound with the dynamics and power.
  
 What is your source?
  
@preproman pointed me towards the 600i and Pass INT-30A by the way, he has heard both. He's gone full Stax now and sold the Abyss + INT-30A combo to @bigfatpaulie who is also delighted with the sound.
  
 I've not heard the HeadTrip so cannot comment. I've spoken to someone recently who isn't that impressed with it, and I've also spoken to someone who loves it. I know that's not helpful to you, but it's another pointer at the necessity of personal audition (or at least the ability to return). 
  
 FWIW - I'm _very_ glad I listened to prep and went the speaker amp route.


----------



## Yoga

<deleted>


----------



## Beolab

yoga said:


> Same here. Tubes would be a black hole to me in terms of money, enjoyment and time. It's been wonderful to sit back in the study and listen to full albums without any inclination to upgrade. I don't think I could do that with tubes.
> 
> The Abyss are incredibly source dependent. Thinking back to the Abyss with the Ragnarok and Hugo - it was horrific. Harsh and soulless. The A1 and 600i offer a wonderfully analogue, musical sound with the dynamics and power.
> 
> ...





Scanned of the market for the 600i pre-used, and did not found any. 

Frim what i have read it is like a big leap from the Cavalli lau, and i have heard the sim 430 with the Soolos,+ Abyss, but i think my audio GD amp had better dynamic reserv and bass, and a overall better sound. 

So if the 600i sound like the 430 but 3 times better, then maybe this is not my kind of Amp, i like Kharma sound , black mystical , sparkle , dept , great dynamic bass, not to shire thin in the mid top without bass. / dynamics i like.

So i hope HeadTrip can give me this ?


----------



## Yoga

beolab said:


> Scanned of the market for the 600i pre-used, and did not found any.
> 
> Frim what i have read it is like a big leap from the Cavalli lau, and i have heard the sim 430 with the Soolos,+ Abyss, but i think my audio GD amp had better dynamic reserv and bass, and a overall better sound.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You've just described how I've been describing the 600i :¬)
  
 Try the HeadTrip!


----------



## mulder01

Just want to throw another idea out there - seriously, if you can't audition any of this stuff near you, get on a plane and go and hear it for yourself. 

Hypothetically, if you buy X solid state amp, and you don't like it, you'll have to sell it and buy another one anyway which will cost you thousands. Even if you like X amp, will you be wondering a month later if Y amp is better? and then you'll have to buy and try that too, which will also cost you thousands.

If you go down the tube route and can afford the WA234 but buy the WA5, will you be looking at the WA5 the whole time wondering what it would sound like if it was a WA234? And if you get a WA234 will you be wondering if you should have just gone SS.

When it comes to buying equipment at this level, one poor decision will cost you more than it would cost to travel anywhere in the world to try all this stuff an make an informed decision. 

If you buy one of those amps without trying the others, you'll never know if you made the right choice either. You might like what you buy, but there might have been a better option for less money that you never tried.

My 2c anyway. I wouldn't base such a big purchase on something so personal based on the tastes of others. At the end of the day, the most passionate and articulate person will be the one to convince you but once you hear it for yourself, you may not agree at all.


----------



## aphex27

yoga said:


> Your first decision needs to be SS or tubes. From there you have two options, 600i or Woo 234 (if you get the WA5, you'll want the 234 eventually) ;¬)
> 
> A used 600i will set you back around $3.5K to $4K. They're rare on the used market which is always a good sign.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Yoga, I understand you previously owned the Moon 430HA?
 I have an Abyss on the way and currently have a Macintosh D100 as a DAC/headphone amp.
 In your opinion should I be considering the upgrade to the 430HAD? (i prefer an all-in-one system)


----------



## Nik

The Mcintosh dedicated headphones amplifier do not drive the Abyss property...


----------



## aphex27

Hi Nik, did/do you own this pairing? Do you mean the MHA100 or the D100?


----------



## Nik

Yes, I had the MHA 100, not enough power for the Abyss, excellent with the HD800...


----------



## aphex27

nik said:


> Yes, I had the MHA 100, not enough power for the Abyss, excellent with the HD800...


 

 Thanks Nik..and I think the MHA100 is much more powerful than mine


----------



## Nik

If you can try the new Goldmund THA2, fantastic with the Abyss...


----------



## Yoga

aphex27 said:


> Hi Yoga, I understand you previously owned the Moon 430HA?
> I have an Abyss on the way and currently have a Macintosh D100 as a DAC/headphone amp.
> In your opinion should I be considering the upgrade to the 430HAD? (i prefer an all-in-one system)


 
  
 I'm a fan of all in one systems too, and the 430HAD is the best bang for buck you'll get with the Abyss. Seriously good bit of kit.
  
 Tyll (Inner Fidelity) just reviewed the 430HA - it's his new solid state reference in neutrality. The DAC in the HAD version is musical rather than analytical (still with great resolution of course), and can't be beaten at that price.
  
 Wise words @mulder01.


----------



## aphex27

nik said:


> If you can try the new Goldmund THA2, fantastic with the Abyss...


 
 Thanks Nik, but I can't try anything here..
 I can only go by other people's opinions..
 This Goldmund looks nice but it's a bit too expensive for me..
 could you suggest a DAC/amp (one machine) for under 5k?
  
 Thanks


----------



## aphex27

yoga said:


> I'm a fan of all in one systems too, and the 430HAD is the best bang for buck you'll get with the Abyss. Seriously good bit of kit.
> 
> Tyll (Inner Fidelity) just reviewed the 430HA - it's his new solid state reference in neutrality. The DAC in the HAD version is musical rather than analytical (still with great resolution of course), and can't be beaten at that price.
> 
> Wise words mulder01.


 

 Thanks


----------



## Articnoise

beolab said:


> Scanned of the market for the 600i pre-used, and did not found any.
> 
> Frim what i have read it is like a big leap from the Cavalli lau, and i have heard the sim 430 with the Soolos,+ Abyss, but i think my audio GD amp had better dynamic reserv and bass, and a overall better sound.
> 
> ...


 
  

 If you really like the sound of your Audio-GD NFB-1 the Master 9 is maybe a solid and much cheaper option than some of the ones on your list. 

  

 The strength of the Master 9 are IMO: overall smooth but not smoothing over sound, good dynamic and punch, neutral, full and never thick sound, good clarity, transparency and black background. Its biggest weakness is that it can sound a bit 2D compered to my Marantz PM11 or the 430 HAD. Another, but less present issue is that it doesn’t has the very last bit of articulation in the bass. Also it may not be at its best together with systems that are already on the full and smooth side.


----------



## Nik

Very, very good the Violetric 281 with the Abyss..


----------



## Cobra Jesse

Anybody knows the pinout info for Abyss?
 Could not find it anywhere on the web.
 Trying to get a pair of cable custom made.
 Appreciate any help.


----------



## Nik

Superconductor cable, custom made for the Abyss 1266


----------



## Cobra Jesse

US$2200 is more than I am willing to spend.
 Will any copper/silver cable with the correct pinout work?


----------



## Beolab

articnoise said:


> If you really like the sound of your Audio-GD NFB-1 the Master 9 is maybe a solid and much cheaper option than some of the ones on your list.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So your overall opinion is that the HeadTrip is not a good option?


----------



## mulder01

cobra jesse said:


> US$2200 is more than I am willing to spend.
> Will any copper/silver cable with the correct pinout work?


 
  
 If you have a multimeter could you just check the continuity on the existing cable and copy it?
  
  


beolab said:


> So your overall opinion is that the HeadTrip is not a good option?


 
  
 If JPS uses it to demo the Abyss at shows, I can't imagine it being bad, I was just getting you to question whether it was the right amp for you without hearing everything else... I'm sure it's going to be excellent, but not many of the regulars around this thread have tried it I don't think, so they can't really recommend it, even though common sense tells you it would probably be a very good option.


----------



## Articnoise

beolab said:


> So your overall opinion is that the HeadTrip is not a good option?


 
  

 I have never heard it and never made any comments about it. From the impressions I have read it seems like a nice headphone amp.


----------



## potkettleblack

Any opinions on the sub-bass of the Ab-1266?
  
 I've been looking at graphs today (something I don't do often) and noticed it seems to roll off a bit, going by Tylls measurements.
  
 This is a subject I don't know a lot about so please don't pounce on me.
  
 I didn't spend enough time with them the last time I listened to them to throw in any particular tracks that could test this. I think I was too busy being amazed by how lightening fast they are (I've said this for two reasons: 1. because it's true  2. to ingratiate myself with the rest of the users on this thread and confirm that I'm not just here to be negative).
  
 Thanks in advance and happy new year!


----------



## Nik

Tyll do not loves the Abyss, but I do not know why...


----------



## aphex27

So my Abyss arrived yesterday...man oh man these things are amazing even from my completely underpowered amp..
 The good members who said the D100 would be underpowered were completely right (have to go to 90/100 to even get proper volume)..so a Moon 430HAD is on it's way 
 I have a question: how do you guys wear yours? I find that if the main contact point is the skull behind my ear
 and the back part of the ear is slightly pushed forward, I get an even more out of head experience..


----------



## adamaley

The Abyss and the Enigma combo was one of my faves at RMAF 2015. It was a great blend of everything I look for musically, except for the fact that I am a tube nut and felt it was missing some of the inner details and instrument timbre tubes would allow. However, it was the most agreeable solid state amp there for my tastes. Plus, the bass slam and dynamic nature surpassed my expectations (coming from tubes). I am seriously considering the Enigma, but my dilemma is getting a tube DAC (I really want the Yggdrasil), or a tube preamp (extra component in the chain). It bettered all the Abyss - Woo Audio 6/5 setups.
  
 I know, you were asking about the Headtrip - I heard the Headtrip briefly, was mightily impressed, but didn't want to taint my view of the Enigma, so I cut my audition short. I am not in the habit of indulging in things beyond my financial means. From my brief listen, it was definitely a better amp (and so it should at its pricepoint). If it is truly better than the Enigma in all aspects, as the gents manning the booth suggested, it will definitely be an end game amp for the Abyss.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

adamaley said:


> The Abyss and the Enigma combo was one of my faves at RMAF 2015. It was a great blend of everything I look for musically, except for the fact that I am a tube nut and felt it was missing some of the inner details and instrument timbre tubes would allow. However, it was the most agreeable solid state amp there for my tastes. Plus, the bass slam and dynamic nature surpassed my expectations (coming from tubes). I am seriously considering the Enigma, but my dilemma is getting a tube DAC (*I really want the Yggdrasi*l), or a tube preamp (extra component in the chain). It bettered all the Abyss - Woo Audio 6/5 setups.
> 
> I know, you were asking about the Headtrip - I heard the Headtrip briefly, was mightily impressed, but didn't want to taint my view of the Enigma, so I cut my audition short. I am not in the habit of indulging in things beyond my financial means. From my brief listen, it was definitely a better amp (and so it should at its pricepoint). If it is truly better than the Enigma in all aspects, as the gents manning the booth suggested, it will definitely be an end game amp for the Abyss.


 
  
 Forget the Yggy.  Or a tube pre.  Look at AudioNote or Lampizator.  At least that's what I would do.


----------



## yates7592

I'm probably one of the very few people around here who owned both Abyss and Headtrip (there are more in Far East if you google blogs there). I have recently sold my Abyss (moving away from cans) but I will say that the combination was Uber good. Can't comment on other amps.


----------



## aphex27

If anyone is interested in what your Abyss are capable of, play this track: https://soundcloud.com/k7-records/teufelsleiter
 And if you have Tidal, play it there, it's in much better quality.


----------



## Beolab

yates7592 said:


> I'm probably one of the very few people around here who owned both Abyss and Headtrip (there are more in Far East if you google blogs there). I have recently sold my Abyss (moving away from cans) but I will say that the combination was Uber good. Can't comment on other amps.




Did you have the SuperConductor HP cable or the standard during the time?


----------



## yates7592

I had the DHC Silver Spore cable and that was a big improvement over stock. I never tried the Superconductor.


----------



## cladane

> I am seriously considering the Enigma, but my dilemma is getting a tube DAC (I really want the Yggdrasil), or a tube preamp (extra component in the chain). It bettered all the Abyss - Woo Audio 6/5 setups.


 
 I would suggest a TotalDAC D1 tube:
http://www.totaldac.com/D1-tube-eng.htm
  
http://www.stereophile.com/content/audiostreams9#jVIu41Phu1V04mgj.97
  
 Such tubey DAC will bring some warmth to your SS amp.
 As a combination with a tubes amp like the Viva Egoista is the TotalDAC D1 Single or Dual (the Dual-six is announced).


----------



## aphex27

I've had/have the T1, HD800, LCD-3f, SR-009..all I can say is that this thing is a far different, far superior experience. 
 I can't even imagine how good it will get when the 430HAD will get here


----------



## bacon333

yoga said:


> Whoever that is, I pretty much agree entirely.
> 
> I can't listen to any other headphones now, they just don't do it for me. I heard a £150K setup a couple of weeks ago - I genuinely preferred my Abyss setup (although I didn't say that at the time for obvious reasons) :¬)
> 
> Happy days indeed.


 
 That would be I, the mighty BACON.  That shootout took a lot more work than I had expected. My goal was just to bring the overarching characteristics of each headphone to the surface.
  
 For those playing media off a computer, I would highly recommend the Uptone Regen. It clears up the signal enormously. I haven't tried it with a linear PSU but I've heard you'll get substantial improvements that way as well. I'll be moving into streamers soon.
  
 So I currently have the 430HAD (Thanks Yoga for the recommendation). The DAC on this thing is incredible, made the Chord Hugo sound soulless and flat. I may have a chance to re-audition the Headtrip with the 430HA side-by-side. From memory...the Headtrip had a more holographic sound...blackest background I've ever heard. I also felt the low-end had more weight, mids were sweeter, and highs were more extended on the Headtrip. It just melted me to my chair. It definitely sounded more spacious overall. I'll see if I could get another demo of the Headtrip.
  
 Now I'm curious to try out the 600i and Lumin A1. I have a feeling the 600i gets you closer to what I heard on the Headtrip.


----------



## jimmywtseng

Luckily I had a privilege listen to my friend's AB-1266 setup, the overall sound quality is CRAZILY AMAZING! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 In terms of sound image, soundstage, instrument quality in classical music, I really feel like that I'm the conductor or one of the microphone setup in the records. No matter what kind of music I listened to, this setup is really a smaller size of speakers. I love the concept of treating AB-1266 like a Hi-End stereo system.


----------



## Kiats

jimmywtseng said:


> Luckily I had a privilege listen to my friend's AB-1266 setup, the overall sound quality is CRAZILY AMAZING! :eek:
> In terms of sound image, soundstage, instrument quality in classical music, I really feel like that I'm the conductor or one of the microphone setup in the records. No matter what kind of music I listened to, this setup is really a smaller size of speakers. I love the concept of treating AB-1266 like a Hi-End stereo system.




Yes, the Abyss is something else, isn't it? Nice Woo Audio monoblocks.  I content myself with the Cavalli Liquid Gold while I used to drive them with the Bryston BHA-1. A friend still swears by the latter for his Abyss.


----------



## jimmywtseng

AB-1266 is really out of world. I've tried all other flagship headphones on his system, ain't no headphone can compete with ab1266. It's truly fantastic!


----------



## Kiats

jimmywtseng said:


> AB-1266 is really out of world. I've tried all other flagship headphones on his system, ain't no headphone can compete with ab1266. It's truly fantastic!




Indeed it is unusual: more like ear speakers than a pair of headphones.


----------



## Yoga

bacon333 said:


> So I currently have the 430HAD (Thanks Yoga for the recommendation). The DAC on this thing is incredible, made the Chord Hugo sound soulless and flat. I may have a chance to re-audition the Headtrip with the 430HA side-by-side. From memory...the Headtrip had a more holographic sound...blackest background I've ever heard. I also felt the low-end had more weight, mids were sweeter, and highs were more extended on the Headtrip. It just melted me to my chair. It definitely sounded more spacious overall. I'll see if I could get another demo of the Headtrip.
> 
> Now I'm curious to try out the 600i and Lumin A1. I have a feeling the 600i gets you closer to what I heard on the Headtrip.


 
  
 No worries. Crazy isn't it, just illustrates the important of synergy. It's why I love to go for multi box solutions, it can save a lot of money and time box swapping (some love that element of course).
  
 The HeadTrip very much sounds like the 600i. I've tried it with a few DACs now, it's ability to bring the best out of them all is ridiculous. Even the little temporary u-DAC (£80) sounds great. Madness.
  
 The Lumin A1 has blown me away. DAC/server search has since ground to a halt. The T1 has identical guts as the A1, just with a cheaper enclosure. The D1 is further reduced, but sounds great with a linear PSU. D1+LPSU is the biggest bang for buck you can get in computer audio in my opinion.
  
 Second hand A1 or new T1 = win.
  


jimmywtseng said:


> AB-1266 is really out of world. I've tried all other flagship headphones on his system, ain't no headphone can compete with ab1266. It's truly fantastic!


 
  
 Yup!


----------



## Rossliew

kiats said:


> Indeed it is unusual: more like ear speakers than a pair of headphones.


 

 Seeing your signature having the TOTL stax cans, how would you compare them with the Abyss, if you don't mind?


----------



## Kiats

rossliew said:


> Seeing your signature having the TOTL stax cans, how would you compare them with the Abyss, if you don't mind?




I can do no better than reproduce a PM in reply that same Q:

The Stax 009 is incredibly smooth. Smooth treble extension, incredible nuanced mids and tight bass. Very balanced and transparent. Rewards great source files.

The Stax 007 MK1 has less treble extension. Mids are probably obscured by the bass. Which is tight and yet full.

The Stax 007 mk2 has a more lush sound sig overall. Fuller mids. I sometimes find the mk1 a bit hollow because the mids don't quite match the bass. Mk2 is LCD 2 perfected.

The Abyss is a great can. Visceral bass. And yet I would not call it warm. The mids are not as forward as the 007 mk2. But that's not an issue if you want your can to be flat. But great full sound. Like speakers for your ears.

Hope the above helps. Do I have any one preference? Nope. I like different sigs because I hear differently to the same piece of music.


----------



## Kiats

This part talks about what I use with the cans:

For the Abyss, I don't use the stock cable. I use Tralucent Uber, toxic Cables copper venom and silver venom. Much richer mids and more note weight.

For the Abyss I use the Cavalli LAu. I find it more nuanced than the Bryston BHA-1, which is still a great powerful amp.

As for Stax amps, I currently use the Cavalli LL2 and the VAW 8PS. The latter does wonders with the 007, both MK 1 and 2.


----------



## Yoga

I'm also using a custom Toxic Silver Widow cable between Abyss and 600i.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks Kiats for the wonderfully concise yet clear description of the various cans. Am now looking at a stax setup again but with the 009s. Just undecided on the matching amp - Carbon or BHSE. I need to check out that VAW as well. Any link to it? Thanks


----------



## arnaud

Rossliew, I find the BHSE responds more to tubes than I expected. A curse or a blessing depending on how you feel with the prospect of seeking rare nos tubes. That'd be my call between the bhse and carbon even though I haven't heard the latter.


----------



## Rossliew

Arnaud, I've heard that rolling tubes incorrectly with the BHSE may cause expensive failure of the amp. Why is this so? Is it not a simple plug and play?


----------



## arnaud

If you're referring to tube type, it's easy to imagine for example that a 300V rated tube might not appreciate being pushed to 2x its rated limit.
 If you stick to the tubes discussed in the BHSE thread (EL34 type), you should be fine.
  
 If you're referring to inserting the proper tube incorrectly, it's also easy to imagine, such as short-circuiting part of an electrical circuit.
 Note that a proper EL34 tube should have a guiding center pin, i.e. a rod with a dent key such that there's only one way to insert the tube into its socket.
 That's a reason why I always stay clear from tubes with broken center pin...
  
 cheers,
 arnaud


----------



## Kiats

rossliew said:


> Thanks Kiats for the wonderfully concise yet clear description of the various cans. Am now looking at a stax setup again but with the 009s. Just undecided on the matching amp - Carbon or BHSE. I need to check out that VAW as well. Any link to it? Thanks




The VAW 8PS is a DIY project by a retired Chinese engineer. But he has not made them for quite a while now. You might find one on the after sales market. Here's a write up on it by Spkrs01: http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/1335


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks both Arnaud and Kiats


----------



## Kiats

rossliew said:


> Thanks both Arnaud and Kiats




No worries at all. Always happy to help. Of course, I always caution that you should always have a listen yourself before pulling trigger. Our choice of music, quality of music files, chain and hearing are invariably different.  But good luck on the exciting voyage of exploration!


----------



## Rossliew

Unfortunately there is a lack of dedicated head fi outlets here in Malaysia so more often than not, I rely on reviews and others' impressions of the specific gear and try to conclude from there. 

Btw, will you be attending Can Jam SG ?


----------



## Kiats

rossliew said:


> Unfortunately there is a lack of dedicated head fi outlets here in Malaysia so more often than not, I rely on reviews and others' impressions of the specific gear and try to conclude from there.
> 
> Btw, will you be attending Can Jam SG ?




That be true. Are you in KL? I believe there's a Jaben there. It will to depend on my work travel schedule. Of course, I'm at the stage where I'm not sure if there's anything which will give me the impetus to sign up.


----------



## Beolab

Think i buy the HeadTrip guys! 

Many say it sounds equal or slight better than the Moon 600i , greater dynamic reserve with better holographic sound than the Lau and Dark Star. Better overall sound than WA5, so what is your final judgement!? 

I will start running with JPS Labs stock cabling, and whats happens !


----------



## bigfatpaulie

beolab said:


> Think i buy the HeadTrip guys!
> 
> Many say it sounds equal or slight better than the Moon 600i , greater dynamic reserve with better holographic sound than the Lau and Dark Star. Better overall sound than WA5, so what is your final judgement!?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would get the 600i in a heart-beat over the HeadTrip.
  
 But that's me.


----------



## Yoga

beolab said:


> Think i buy the HeadTrip guys!
> 
> Many say it sounds equal or slight better than the Moon 600i , greater dynamic reserve with better holographic sound than the Lau and Dark Star. Better overall sound than WA5, so what is your final judgement!?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't think there is a single person who has heard the Abyss through both the 600i and HeadTrip.
  
 Enjoy the amp!


----------



## Beolab

bigfatpaulie said:


> I would get the 600i in a heart-beat over the HeadTrip.
> 
> But that's me.


 

 Cant find the Moon 600i on HiFi Shark or any used one, but according to some in the forum the Headtrip sounds equal to the 600i .
  
 So i think i go for a new Headtrip instead =)
  
 Like this two tests:
  
 http://headphone.guru/wells-audio-headtrip-headphone-amplifier-jerry-garcia-never-had-a-headtrip-this-good/
  
 https://audiobacon.net/2015/12/14/ultra-high-end-full-size-open-headphone-shootout/


----------



## Yoga

beolab said:


> Cant find the Moon 600i on HiFi Shark or any used one, but according to some in the forum the Headtrip sounds equal to the 600i .
> 
> So i think i go for a new Headtrip instead =)
> 
> ...


 

 There's also the Pass Labs INT-30A to consider. Preproman went that way with the Abyss, and it's what bigfatpaulie is using. Easier to find on the second hand market too.
  
 I don't think you can go wrong with any of them :¬)


----------



## Beolab

I made it easy, took almost all of my last savings and placed the order on the HeadTrip, i hope can have it for many years to come.

It will cost me 8990$ incl customs and VAT incl a nice discount from Jeff, so i hope it going to sound good!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Don't get me wrong - my comment wasn't meant to be antagonistic.  
  
 I guess the reason I *personally* would have gone the other way is that there is a lack a knowledge of the pairing.  I've heard nothing bad about the Headtrip and I'm sure it is a top shelf amp, but there is more of a mystery there.  If there is a big price difference because you found one used, that would likely sway me as well.
  
 Either way, looking forward to hearing your thoughts on what surely will be an amazing setup!!


----------



## Yoga

Here's my setup, although the MSB is now back in the box :¬)
  

  
 Custom Toxic Silver Widow cable. Does the trick very nicely indeed, and super light/flexible.
  

  
 After my studio is built I'll think about the DHC route, priorities are elsewhere atm :¬)


----------



## Articnoise

Yoga have you written a review/compare between the Lumin A1 and the MSB Analog?


----------



## Beolab

bigfatpaulie said:


> Don't get me wrong - my comment wasn't meant to be antagonistic.
> 
> I guess the reason I *personally* would have gone the other way is that there is a lack a knowledge of the pairing.  I've heard nothing bad about the Headtrip and I'm sure it is a top shelf amp, but there is more of a mystery there.  If there is a big price difference because you found one used, that would likely sway me as well.
> 
> Either way, looking forward to hearing your thoughts on what surely will be an amazing setup!!




The HeadTrip are made for Abyss, so i think it have to be the perfect synergy, because Joe Skubinski of JPS Labs came to Jeff and requisitioned him to make him a headphone amplifier that would mirror the quality and sonic characteristics of the Wells’ speaker amps. This is how and when the Headtrip was born. The Headtrip uses many of the same components and features of his Innamorata design, more suitable to work in harmony with headphones.


Here you can also read a few tests Abyss + Headtrip Paulie : 

https://audiobacon.net/2015/12/14/ultra-high-end-full-size-open-headphone-shootout/

2. 
http://headphone.guru/wells-audio-headtrip-headphone-amplifier-jerry-garcia-never-had-a-headtrip-this-good/


----------



## bigfatpaulie

beolab said:


> The HeadTrip are made for Abyss, so i think it have to be the perfect synergy, because Joe Skubinski of JPS Labs came to Jeff and requisitioned him to make him a headphone amplifier that would mirror the quality and sonic characteristics of the Wells’ speaker amps. This is how and when the Headtrip was born. The Headtrip uses many of the same components and features of his Innamorata design, more suitable to work in harmony with headphones.
> 
> 
> Here you can also read a few tests Abyss + Headtrip Paulie :
> ...


 
  
 I've seen the reviews and know the history of the HeadTrip...  As I said, I'm sure it will be an excellent pairing.
  
 A friend of mine has one on loan and he, despite being one of the most discerning (maybe pickey 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) listeners I know, felt it was one of, if not THE best SS amp on the market.
  
 Sincerely, a huge congrats on an amazing amp.


----------



## Beolab

Sounds promising and thanks allot Paulie

I just have to wire the money to Jeff at Wells Audio  


This words in the review sounds very promising: 

The Headtrip amp was supposedly built for this headphone in mind and it shows. Overall, I think what a high-end amp does for a headphone like this is more texture and control over the entire spectrum. It gives it that “effortless” sound…where power (and at times money) is no object.
The pairing and synergy with this amp is astounding. It was the closest I’ve gotten to a $200,000 Kharma speaker setup with headphones. The Abyss has the ability to teleport you to the place the recording took place in.


----------



## Yoga

articnoise said:


> Yoga have you written a review/compare between the Lumin A1 and the MSB Analog?


 
  
 Not yet, I will do once the Quad USB module arrives (as that uses I2S).


----------



## mulder01

I think you should do it beolab. If you don't like it, you can just give it to me and I'll take it off your hands


----------



## rgs9200m

I think I'm planning to sell my Abyss, and I still need to take some more photos and prepare the ad, so I just wanted to give a heads-up in this thread in case anyone wants to PM me. Thanks.


----------



## Beolab

rgs9200m said:


> I think I'm planning to sell my Abyss, and I still need to take some more photos and prepare the ad, so I just wanted to give a heads-up in this thread in case anyone wants to PM me. Thanks.




Are you selling the Abyss in fame of another headphone or?


----------



## rgs9200m

Yeah, LCD4.


----------



## musicbuff

mulder01 said:


> He was referring to the purple and gold custom build with the snakeskin leather, (see recent images) not the Abyss in general.
> 
> Now that I have a pair, I can see why it's designed the way it is - the idea is to have the ear pads only slightly touching your head, and with a traditional sprung headband setup you can't get that.  You need a rigid frame to hold the drivers in the right position out from your head, but also have it adjustable and supported vertically.  Admittedly I'm not a big fan of the headband, but had a think about what you could do to achieve the same effect and there's really no easy way to do it.
> 
> ...


 

 I know it's been quite a while since you wrote this but I have the Violectric V281 and find it exceptional.  I would like to know how you find your Abyss paired with the V281 as I'm considering selling all my headphones (Audeze X, Sennheiser 650 and 800) toward the purchase of the Abyss. I'd appreciate as much detail as you can muster.


----------



## mulder01

Wow that's an old post... I am probably the wrong person to be asking for detailed impressions though - I'm not a super critical listener or great at describing sound...
  
 I would say that the Abyss is in a different league to pretty much every other more reasonably priced flagship though.  You do pay a premium for it but there's no comparison as far as I'm concerned.  (Have not spent any time with the similarly-priced LCD4 though)
  
 As far as the combo goes, I know Fririce003, nomax, nik, isquirrel and I'm sure there has been a few others as well as myself who have heard the Abyss + V281 have only had good things to say about the pairing.  I am still currently using it actually and don't really feel a need to upgrade it.  And even though the Abyss is power hungry, the vio has plenty of power to spare given that it can put 4.2w into 50 ohms - I normally leave the gain on +0 (unless I'm using a quiet source) and still don't run out of room on the volume knob.  My more conservative purchase option was the LCD-X actually so if you are a fan of that I don't think you could go too wrong upgrading to the Abyss.  I would say the Abyss is kinda a supercharged Audeze.  I actually know another member - Xecuter who doesn't really post on here anymore was looking at an LCD-X/3 until he heard the Abyss and now he would never go back.
  
 I don't know if that helps you, but if you have any more specific questions about certain aspects of the sound, maybe just ask and some other members might be able to chime in, but yeah, in short, I think the Abyss is a significant upgrade from an LCD-X/3 and the Vio is more than suitable to run it.  You can spend more on an amp down the track if you are super keen and have the cash, but it's not required IMO.


----------



## adamaley

rgs9200m said:


> I think I'm planning to sell my Abyss, and I still need to take some more photos and prepare the ad, so I just wanted to give a heads-up in this thread in case anyone wants to PM me. Thanks.


 
 Sent you a PM concerning your sale yesterday. It appears you took the listing down. Have you changed your mind about selling it?


----------



## musicbuff

Thanks for the quick reply Mulder01.  I'm glad to hear the Violectric can power the Abyss without running out of gas.  What I'd like to know is how the Abyss sounds with the V281.  The bass-is it detailed, deep and tight compared to the Audeze X?  Mid's-are they detailed and focused.  The highs do they have sparkle?  The one reason I'm looking for new HP's is because the X's, though their bass is great, it seems the bass bleeds into and dulls the midrange and the highs, eliminating some of the sparkle that I need to enjoy my music. The Senn HD 800 doesn't have enough bass for a lot of the music I like and at times, neither do the 650's which also aren't as detailed as I'd like (but are very good for their price bracket).  I hear the sound stage is very wide and deep on the Abyss.  When you listen to orchestras, choirs or groups, can you differentiate between voices and instruments.  Is there a lot of detail and if so how does it compare to the Senn HD 800's?  I love detail.  Is there a lot of air around instruments (separation from other instruments)?  These are the things I'm looking for in a new headphone.  In your opinion are there any genre's of music the Abyss isn't as good with?  What (if any) are the weaknesses of the Abyss?  Anybody's and everybody's insight would be greatly appreciated.  5K+ is a lot to fork over and then not be ecstatic with what you hear.


----------



## mulder01

Ah yep... those are probably more general Abyss questions that anyone can answer better than me.
  
 Everyone hates this answer, but I keep giving it... If your question is "is it worth it" or "will I be ecstatic with what I hear" that's something that only you can decide.  If you're in the US, I'd spend the couple of hundred on a plane ticket and go and listen to it for yourself.  It's a big investment at this end of the market and it might be the best couple of hundred bucks you ever spent.  The price of the Abyss was worth it for me, but everyone's different.
  
 When you say "Is there a lot of detail and if so how does it compare to the Senn HD 800's"  I have to be honest, I actually hate the HD800 - I think it's awful - forceful sterile and fatiguing.  So I'm probably the wrong person to ask about that, but maybe you may want to sell the LCDX and 650 for the Abyss but keep the 800 if that's the sort of sound signature you're going to want sometimes.  They are very different beasts... Again, I suppose that sort of thing is up to the individual and only you can make that decision.  I don't want to tell you to sell it based on my opinion then you end up missing it a month later and have to buy another pair... Sorry this is all probably really unhelpful..
  
 Nice headphone stand btw - I do like my Lego


----------



## Beolab

The Abyss have better bass/dynamics and equal soundstage to the new Orpheus II. 

The Orpheus II bass comes from the middle of the headphone and are piont directional, and sound more like a high end headphone and Abyss sounds more like a Kharma Speaker. 

(It also got even more details than HD800)

Its best in the world in these diffrent areas, but it got small flaws absolutley, but all headphones got flaws. This is to my taste, and i am a hard judge. 

Two of them can be a little veil in the upper mid/treable and the voice are more flat than on the HE1K or LCD4 / HD800s for example. 

But overall i think its the best headphone money can buy at the moment. 

LCD4 is a good contender to Abyss, if you have a super high end amp like the Woo 234 mono blocks or using dac direct out on the MSB Select as Isquirrel do, but otherwise i think the Abyss is the overall winner. 

I have tested about 30 diffrent headphones and no one came even close. 

The V281 can drive them but you are going to want a better amp for the Abyss trust me on that. 

The Cavalli Lau / Dark Star / Woo Wa5 / Wells Audio Enigma or Headtrip are good choices for this headphone, and its no shortcut. You can also buy a speaker Amp like mensiond in this thread: Nelson Pass Labs IN30 , Sim Audio Moon 600i , Goldmund , diffrent tube/SS amps.


----------



## aphex27

beolab said:


> The Abyss have better bass/dynamics and equal soundstage to the new Orpheus II.
> 
> The Orpheus II bass comes from the middle of the headphone and are piont directional, and sound more like a high end headphone and Abyss sounds more like a Kharma Speaker.
> 
> ...


 

 Is the LCD-4 such an upgrade over the LCD-3f? I had the latter for about a year and to me the Abyss is a far superior headphone in every respect. 
  
 I completely agree with you about it being the best headphone money can buy. When I got it, I immediately sold my SR-009 and everything else.
  
 I knew I would never listen to all the other headphones again


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## Beolab

aphex27 said:


> Is the LCD-4 such an upgrade over the LCD-3f? I had the latter for about a year and to me the Abyss is a far superior headphone in every respect.
> 
> I completely agree with you about it being the best headphone money can buy. When I got it, I immediately sold my SR-009 and everything else.
> 
> I knew I would never listen to all the other headphones again




LCD4 is a good contender to Abyss, if you have a super high end amp like the Woo 234 mono blocks or using dac direct out on the MSB Select as Isquirrel do, but otherwise i think the Abyss is the overall winner, the LCD 4 is not a alternativ for me..


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## aphex27

I'm having a glass of whiskey, listening to Beethoven and wondering how these things can sound so perfect. 
 Every frequency is rendered astonishingly well..with punch, depth, realism, quickness.. and the headphones still get out of your way. You listen to the music, not the headphones. And all this from my crappy McIntosh amp.
  
 I find it mind boggling that these headphones were made by snake oil peddlers of "magical" cables on their first effort.


----------



## Beolab

aphex27 said:


> I'm having a glass of whiskey, listening to Beethoven and wondering how these things can sound so perfect.
> Every frequency is rendered astonishingly well..with punch, depth, realism, quickness.. and the headphones still get out of your way. You listen to the music, not the headphones. And all this from my crappy McIntosh amp.
> 
> I find it mind boggling that these headphones were made by snake oil peddlers of "magical" cables on their first effort.




Sounds nice! 

Yes thats the big question how was it impassible!  

I think the headphones are like a great win, just gets better and better reputation from users all the time. 

And ultra high end users that have sold them because of some other brand just resealed a new model, but after a little while they have bought a new pair Abyss again, and that to me say something. 

The other manufactures are trying their best but found it hard for them to make so much better headphones so it does exceeds the Abyss, because in the end it is just headphones and it is impossible to do so much better with a nano thin diaphragm foil. 

They try to make it in different materials / thickness but thats it, and according to Joe its hard to make the Abyss better than it is today.


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## mulder01

aphex27 said:


> I find it mind boggling that these headphones were made by snake oil peddlers of "magical" cables on their first effort.


 
  
 ha, yeah, I am yet to be convinced about high end cables - I am a bit skeptical but I'm not going to write them off if I haven't properly tried them for myself.  But I actually hold a bit more hope for JPS cables after hearing this headphone - there is a pretty old video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAdovBFa1GU of Tyll's from back when the Abyss was a prototype where Joe talks about this headphone as a "materials science project" where they tried all types of diaphragm materials on the market and weren't happy with any of them so they designed their own material from scratch to achieve the level of sound they wanted and tried to transpose some of the experience they have in developing materials for high end cables into creating a headphone.  They seem to be pretty serious about what they do, and given the results of the headphone project, I'm a little more interested to hear what their cables can do.  They can be quite expensive though so maybe no time soon...


----------



## aphex27

mulder01 said:


> ha, yeah, I am yet to be convinced about high end cables - I am a bit skeptical but I'm not going to write them off if I haven't properly tried them for myself.  But I actually hold a bit more hope for JPS cables after hearing this headphone - there is a pretty old video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAdovBFa1GU of Tyll's from back when the Abyss was a prototype where Joe talks about this headphone as a "materials science project" where they tried all types of diaphragm materials on the market and weren't happy with any of them so they designed their own material from scratch to achieve the level of sound they wanted and tried to transpose some of the experience they have in developing materials for high end cables into creating a headphone.  They seem to be pretty serious about what they do, and given the results of the headphone project, I'm a little more interested to hear what their cables can do.  They can be quite expensive though so maybe no time soon...


 
 Great vid, thanks!


----------



## mulder01

beolab said:


> The V281 can drive them but you are going to want a better amp for the Abyss trust me on that.
> 
> The Cavalli Lau / Dark Star / Woo Wa5 / Wells Audio Enigma or Headtrip are good choices for this headphone, and its no shortcut. You can also buy a speaker Amp like mensiond in this thread: Nelson Pass Labs IN30 , Sim Audio Moon 600i , Goldmund , diffrent tube/SS amps.


 
  
 It kinda looks like you're just listing all the amps you've seen mentioned on this thread and just assumed they are better because they're more expensive.  Have you actually listened to the v281 and all of these amps?  I know Fririce and Nomax actually preferred the v281 to the liquid gold.  From my very limited experience with the liquid gold I wouldn't say it was any better either.  I've only heard one member on here who has tried the Abyss with the Dark Star and don't think he was too thrilled with it because he ordered himself a new amp straight away.  Even in the last couple of pages you were asking people for their impressions on the Headtrip, and now you're recommending it as one of the best solutions for the Abyss and you don't even have one yet.  Pretty sure the head fi rules basically say that if you haven't tried it, don't talk about it...  Anything that I've read about but haven't tried myself, I make sure to mention that I haven't tried it when I point out what other members have said about something.  AFAIK, you haven't heard anything you just talked about like you were speaking facts.
  
 Not anything personal - just saying maybe be a little more cautious about what you are posting.


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> It kinda looks like you're just listing all the amps you've seen mentioned on this thread and just assumed they are better because they're more expensive.  Have you actually listened to the v281 and all of these amps?  I know Fririce and Nomax actually preferred the v281 to the liquid gold.  From my very limited experience with the liquid gold I wouldn't say it was any better either.  I've only heard one member on here who has tried the Abyss with the Dark Star and don't think he was too thrilled with it because he ordered himself a new amp straight away.  Even in the last couple of pages you were asking people for their impressions on the Headtrip, and now you're recommending it as one of the best solutions for the Abyss and you don't even have one yet.  Pretty sure the head fi rules basically say that if you haven't tried it, don't talk about it...  Anything that I've read about but haven't tried myself, I make sure to mention that I haven't tried it when I point out what other members have said about something.  AFAIK, you haven't heard anything you just talked about like you were speaking facts.
> 
> Not anything personal - just saying maybe be a little more cautious about what you are posting.




I just wanted to inform and help out with just god intentions that also many have mentioned 100 times before, that the Abyss ned a very good amp to awake the headphone on all cylinders, so it could be a waste of money to buy a little underpowered or cheaper amp as i see it. Now the V281 is either cheap or very underpowered. 

I have fallen in to that hole my self and did just want to inform everyone who planing to by the Abyss that you need a serious good amp, and just name dropped a few commonly used amps for the Abyss that i think the buyer should try out before he makes the final call and by the V281 was just my intention. 

I have not said or intended anywhere that i have listen to them all the amps i mentioned, so here you have miss understood me greatly. 

I did just want to help out before he runs out and buy a V281 who i in fact i have listen to, and i thought it sounded a little to neutral for my ears, and it wouldn't had suffer if it hade a little more power either was my impression.


----------



## mulder01

I think you may have misunderstood his question - he already has a v281 and was thinking about buying an Abyss and wanted to know if the amp - which he already has - would be ok. Not "What is the best amp I can buy for an Abyss"

I wouldn't say it was underpowered considering it can put over 4 watts into the Abyss - I've never come anywhere near reaching the maximum output of this amp.

If he was buying a whole new abyss rig from scratch and had the money to spend then great, but he is asking if the amp he already owns would be ok to power the Abyss if he got one - and it would - if he wants to upgrade later then great, but saying that you need a more expensive amp straight away will likely put him off buying an abyss because that immediately doubles the amount of money he needs to spend and it's just not necessary.


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> I think you may have misunderstood his question - he already has a v281 and was thinking about buying an Abyss and wanted to know if the amp - which he already has - would be ok. Not "What is the best amp I can buy for an Abyss"
> 
> I wouldn't say it was underpowered considering it can put over 4 watts into the Abyss - I've never come anywhere near reaching the maximum output of this amp.
> 
> If he was buying a whole new abyss rig from scratch and had the money to spend then great, but he is asking if the amp he already owns would be ok to power the Abyss if he got one - and it would - if he wants to upgrade later then great, but saying that you need a more expensive amp straight away will likely put him off buying an abyss because that immediately doubles the amount of money he needs to spend and it's just not necessary.




Then i misunderstood that , and you misunderstood me, case closed! 

(Yes i have 6,8 watt @ 46 Ohm today and the sound is to me equal to the Moon 430 Neo and the V281.. 
 i think it is a little to flat, so we all have different criteria and im not satisfied with it, and therefore i have placed an order on a different and to me and many others better amp. 
My intention is not to through pie on different amps, but i think i have right to the free word of what i have found out after over one year with the Abyss Headphones) 

I think its better if we end this conversation and shake hands instead. 

I can erase my earlier posts and you can erase your earlier postings and quotings and move on.


----------



## ufospls2

Does anyone know if there is any way of testing the Abyss in Vancouver Canada? Also, would the Auralic Taurus drive the Abyss well? Or does it not have enough juice?
  
 I've been doing some reading on the Abyss vs. the HE1000 but haven't found too much info. Does anyone in this thread have any experience with both? I'm looking to buy my "endgame" (I hate that term) headphone. I love the SR-009, and have been able to test it out quite a bit. From what I have read the Abyss has more bass and sub bass than the SR-009. I find the SR-009 is very good at bass, whilst not in quantity so much, but quality. With a bit of EQ, I think I could bring up the quantity of bass on the SR-009 and it might be as close to my perfect headphone as I have heard.....but I haven't heard the abyss. I listen to LOTS of electronica, but also metal, jazz, and some pop. I'm not much into classical. I'm not too concerned with price within reason as long as I could run the Abyss on my Taurus, as I would have to buy an amp to run the Stax, so I'm looking at quite a bit of money either way. Thanks for the help guys!


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## aphex27

Having sold my SR-009s after I got the Abyss, I can tell you the Abyss are a completely different experience. 
 The Stax were the finest headphones I had heard, everything was amazing. But the sound was still right next to your eyes.
 With the Abyss, the music is in front of you. 
 I listen to a lot of Electronica and some metal myself. For these genres there's simply no comparison IMO.
 I actually easily prefer the Abyss even for classical.


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## Beolab

Here we go again! 

Hope not Moulder see this post

I the Taurus can drive them with great headroom i think. 

The Auralic overall character can be a bit clinical, but ofther than that its a very good amp, almost top 5 amps for Abyss i think! 

Buy them and you wont regret it  

The Abyss play like a big Kharma speaker and the Stax plays more like ultra detailed headphone thats the diffrence.


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## bigfatpaulie

ufospls2 said:


> Does anyone know if there is any way of testing the Abyss in Vancouver Canada?


 
  
 I went though the same thing.  I bugged Joe about Canadian dealers and, long story short, it's going to be a long story (read: wait).  We've been left out of the club up here


----------



## ufospls2

aphex27 said:


> Having sold my SR-009s after I got the Abyss, I can tell you the Abyss are a completely different experience.
> The Stax were the finest headphones I had heard, everything was amazing. But the sound was still right next to your eyes.
> With the Abyss, the music is in front of you.
> I listen to a lot of Electronica and some metal myself. For these genres there's simply no comparison IMO.
> I actually easily prefer the Abyss even for classical.


 
  
 Very interesting. I'm having a hard time imagining the sound being in front of you, coming from headphones. Another reason to demo before dropping this kind of cash I suppose. If only I could find a used pair for sale!


beolab said:


> Here we go again!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Again the speaker like quality vs. headphone comparison. Very interesting. I need to hear these! The fact I wouldn't need to drop $$$ on a suitable amp is very attractive. Buying the SR-009 from price japan + an amp=about the price of an abyss. I just need to find a used pair for sale! haha. 
  


bigfatpaulie said:


> I went though the same thing.  I bugged Joe about Canadian dealers and, long story short, it's going to be a long story (read: wait).  We've been left out of the club up here


 
 Ah thats a shame  Oh well, I'll keep my eye out and perhaps I'll find a pair to demo some day. I can't drop this kind of money without hearing them first.


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## potkettleblack

To weigh in quickly: the short audition I had with these (an hour on an underpowered amp [I was not prepared]) the sense of space they created was pretty surreal. I mentioned in a he1000 review that the he1000 had the best soundstage I'd ever heard and that the abyss lacked intimacy for certain music. I believe on my second audition that opinion won't change; that it is for *certain* and not all music.

I can't stress this enough - the sense of space the Ab1266 created was completely unmatched. The argument can be made for the imaging on the hd800 being better and more precise (slightly - and it is slight imo).. But the sheer size of the head stage went to the AB by quite a margin. I mean, it's just ridiculous. The first song I listened to was BIlly Jean. When the beat kicked in, it sounded so far behind me, it borders the impossible for what headphones can normally achieve.

As many have said about the AB sounding like speakers - for those that have not auditioned these yet - that is NOT an exaggeration. At all. 

Just as I think Fang is a genius for the HE1000, Joe and whoever else is involved with this can should feel very proud of themselves. And this is their first attempt? 

Take a bow. 

Two things that stuck with me, were that characteristic and the speed. I need to hear how good the bass can be once fitted and driven correctly.

I sincerely hope I can get a good fit with no issues on my second time around in Feb/March, because these are well and truly in the running.


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## potkettleblack

Edited for political correctness.


----------



## discodelico

I'd like to upgrade my Abyss1266 cables.
Anyone has compared the JPS labs Superconductor Vs the Spore 4?
All best


----------



## isquirrel

discodelico said:


> I'd like to upgrade my Abyss1266 cables.
> Anyone has compared the JPS labs Superconductor Vs the Spore 4?
> All best


 

 Should have a short length of the Superconductor here later this week to try out, current cables are the DHC Spore4 Silver TOTL.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

I am having a quiet night at home alone as my wife is away on business.  Traditionally these are the nights I fire up the tubes and settle in with a scotch and my HD800's.  Tonight, however, Tidal is on a winning streak and I don't want to take the Abyss off.
  
 What a marvelous headphone: Well done, Joe.
  
 Is this it?  Is this what "end game" sounds like?  Could I be done??
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 Nah...
  
  
 But it sure is nice to dream.


----------



## Beolab

For now and for a couple of years to come yes! 

The amp / dac / interconnects is second, the headphone / speakers sets the bar for the tone, and the amp will try to control the wild stallion, mean vile the pretty DAC is the hard flirted snow white in the castle tower ! 

Congrats Paulie! 

How do you like them? 

Much more real meat :muscle_tone2: and space/ dept/ /dynamics to it than the other hummingbirds
 ( headphones)


----------



## ufospls2

Does anyone here have extensive experience with both the SR-009 and the Abyss? By the looks of things I'm not going to be able to try out an Abyss before I make my purchase decision so I have no clue what to do. From what I can find online, it seems that the Abyss might be better suited for my preferred listening taste (electronica, metal, some pop.) I would be running the SR-009 with a 323s, and the Abyss with a Auralic Taurus. Does anyone else in this thread have experience with the Abyss paired with the Taurus? I'm worried it wouldn't have enough power/bring out (closeish) to the best out of the Abyss? The SR-009 and the 323s from Japan would be cheaper than the Abyss on its own (unless one pops up used), and I know I like that combo. Ahhh! haha. I would be buying a better amp for the SR-009 in the long run, so if the Abyss pairs well with the Taurus, then it would be cheaper in the long run. There is no way I can afford both, so I have to get this decision right!


----------



## mulder01

beolab said:


> Here we go again!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey what happened to 'nothing personal'?  
  
 Nothing wrong with this post anyway - you answered the question and backed it up with your own experience.  Perfect.
  
  


isquirrel said:


> Should have a short length of the Superconductor here later this week to try out, current cables are the DHC Spore4 Silver TOTL.


 
  
 Nice


----------



## MaggotBrain

Having owned both, I would go with the Abyss.

Two main reasons: The Abyss hits harder, and it offers flexibility. 

My headphone journey will always bring me back to what I desire the most: to have a set of headphones that sound as good as the time spent in my youth wearing a foamy headphones with my Discman. 
Were the headphones bought in a drugstore. I think so. But they sounded great. The source, at least was awesome, especially considering the upgrade from cassette tapes to CDs was considerable. 

When I first listened to the Stax, I thought it couldn't get any better. The sound is clean, precise, and lightning quick in response. Things changed when I started tinkering with portable amps, specifically the Chord Hugo, and noted I started to prefer certain genres (especially hard rock, jazz, hip/hop - basically most up-beat music with impact) with the Chord Hugo and my closed cans (ultrasone edition 5s). The bass hit harder, and the treble was more powerful. What I really liked was the fact didn't have to crank the volume the have the headphones sound great. I think of volume like I think of bacon. Is everything better with more of it. Yes, but you know it's not good for you. Speaking as someone who takes care of the elderly for a living, I don't want to end up cupping my ears half the time in conversation. 

Which brought me to the abyss. Every review remarked about its sound, its booming bass and luscious mids and tap dancing on your forehead treble. Well let me tell you, I paired my abyss with the Hugo and at first I was....disappointed. My Hugo wasn't fully charged, and it was huffing and wheezing to power the thing. But when I had it fully charged and WHAM. I felt the impact and I was hooked. 

I do have to stress that the fit has to be just right, and this is coming from a guy who had to special order a helmet from rIddell to fit my 8 1/4 inch noggin to play high school ball. If it can fit me, it can fit anyone!
I played AC/DCs Thunderstruck, and I was. Played Charles Mingus' Better Git It in Your Soul, and I did. You literally have to look up to make sure there is no one drumming on your head. I kid you not!

So that was the sound. Now the flexibility part. Now if you don't have a pencil neck and can walk around with the abyss, you will be delighted because it adds a new dimension to the audiophile experience: putzing around. By that I mean, you can listen while actually getting stuff done. I used my abyss and walked around like a 41 year dad of three who doesn't give a flying fig when paired up with my Hugo. I should mention I have a pair of 4 foot nylon coated cords from BTG audio whose mini XLRs swap well with the stock cables for moseying around. I tell you, I played catch with daughter, gardened a little, walked my dogs, cooked a chicken Marsala and did the dishes. I even went hog wild cleaning the house, wiping spots of the ceiling that I swear I would get to one day. Cleaning spots off the ceiling! Is there a bigger endorsement?

Having said, ummmmmmm, never mind what I said. I have set of stax to sell if you're interested....Yeah stax is what you want, yeah.


----------



## Beolab

ufospls2 said:


> Does anyone here have extensive experience with both the SR-009 and the Abyss? By the looks of things I'm not going to be able to try out an Abyss before I make my purchase decision so I have no clue what to do. From what I can find online, it seems that the Abyss might be better suited for my preferred listening taste (electronica, metal, some pop.) I would be running the SR-009 with a 323s, and the Abyss with a Auralic Taurus. Does anyone else in this thread have experience with the Abyss paired with the Taurus? I'm worried it wouldn't have enough power/bring out (closeish) to the best out of the Abyss? The SR-009 and the 323s from Japan would be cheaper than the Abyss on its own (unless one pops up used), and I know I like that combo. Ahhh! haha. I would be buying a better amp for the SR-009 in the long run, so if the Abyss pairs well with the Taurus, then it would be cheaper in the long run. There is no way I can afford both, so I have to get this decision right!




Go for the Abyss, you wont regret it in the long run, and you do not have to worry about the power from the Taurus. 

It where among the best dedicated SS headamps for Abyss in 2013 when it was released, but there is just a few amps maybe that have surpassed it slightly, but it is a good combo with a slight cleanliness like the SR-009 tone to it, so you have the both of the to worlds. 

I also know that Tyll have owned a Taurus he hooked up the Abyss with, which he liked alot. 
Go ahead and e-mail him at innerfidelity.com 
or if we have someone else in here that have owned this combo that can shim in.. 

I have heard the Taurus at the High End store at my friends place here in Stockholm: Audio Concept, and i liked the sound, but it was connected to HD800 / LCD-3 unfortunately.


----------



## mulder01

Rig photo, because why not.
  

  
 Your turn!


----------



## mulder01

maggotbrain said:


> *snip*


 
  
 What portable player are you using?


----------



## isquirrel

You want al of us to post photos of our current rigs?


----------



## MaggotBrain

Pardon the mess, but I just opened up the box to my audio-gd master 9 today. Hugo did an admirable job holding the fort, but wow, the reins are off the Abyss now. Holy guacamole! They need to put an o between the g and the d. 
Now I guess I know what it's like to get the Ferrari off the driveway and onto the open road. 

So here's how it went down. Got the thing set up, but I noticed the Schiit gugnir was grunting and straining under the heavy load. Treble and mids were fine, but the bass was a bit muddy. I did my "Monster" test - the song by Kanye, Jay-Z and Rick Ross with a deep, rumbly bass that tests the mettle of gear. With the Gugnir it was a bit flabby, but in came the Hugo and it performed like champ. And it was not just aggressive and kicking like an angry mule all the time. Threw on some easy listening, and it buttered both sides of the bread. 

Today is what ice cube would call a good day. Not only did I get the master 9'set up, but a patient of mine had their 104th birthday...and I got free cake. Not just free to me, but because the lady turned a one hundred and freaking four, Sams Club gave her a big ole sheet cake for free, on the house! I had a great aunt Millie who lived to 102 so I have a chance. Great aunt Millie was the worst cheapskate too. When she moved here from Lithuania, she didn't know how modern stuff worked. She thought she would save money by plugging in the fridge only when she felt like it. God rest the soul of my great uncle, for the poor dude died of an egg salad sandwich. It's okay to snicker or even laugh, cause God knows I was rolling on the floor when I heard this. My mom picked up the spendthrift habits to a lesser extent, but thankfully kept the fridge plugged in. We had a drawer in the kitchen with just packets of ketchup - because back in the day they didn't dispense with ketchup packets behind the counter lbegrudingly but had a big old bucketful of packets for all to partake. So how much ketchup ketchup pakxets did we get - a pursefull, that's how much. I don't think I ever had a bottle of ketchup til I moved out the house. So when I say the Abyss is worth every penny, you know my words carry weight. 

Mulder - portable player is the iPhone streaming Tidal. My CDs are ripped only to crappy MP3 quality and, I am sad to say my CD collection was thrown out by someone who, well, has maggots in his brain. Tidal has most of the stuff I like, with a couple of holdouts (curse you, Bob Seeger!). Much thanks to you and aphex27for your reps and putting up with my babbling.


----------



## mulder01

isquirrel said:


> You want al of us to post photos of our current rigs?


 
  
 Yeah should make for interesting viewing
 You might have to take a photo from a few metres back if you have all that stuff in your signature...
  


maggotbrain said:


> Today is what ice cube would call a good day. Not only did I get the master 9'set up, but a patient of mine had their 104th birthday...and I got free cake. Not just free to me, but because the lady turned a one hundred and freaking four, Sams Club gave her a big ole sheet cake for free, on the house! I had a great aunt Millie who lived to 102 so I have a chance. Great aunt Millie was the worst cheapskate too. When she moved here from Lithuania, she didn't know how modern stuff worked. She thought she would save money by plugging in the fridge only when she felt like it. God rest the soul of my great uncle, for the poor dude died of an egg salad sandwich. It's okay to snicker or even laugh, cause God knows I was rolling on the floor when I heard this. My mom picked up the spendthrift habits to a lesser extent, but thankfully kept the fridge plugged in. We had a drawer in the kitchen with just packets of ketchup - because back in the day they didn't dispense with ketchup packets behind the counter lbegrudingly but had a big old bucketful of packets for all to partake. So how much ketchup ketchup pakxets did we get - a pursefull, that's how much. I don't think I ever had a bottle of ketchup til I moved out the house. So when I say the Abyss is worth every penny, you know my words carry weight.


 
  
 lol I was wondering where that paragraph was going...


----------



## isquirrel

Current system photo:


----------



## nassq8

isquirrel said:


> Current system photo:



 


Very nice! A remarkable arrangement for music


----------



## aphex27

maggotbrain said:


> Pardon the mess, but I just opened up the box to my audio-gd master 9 today. Hugo did an admirable job holding the fort, but wow, the reins are off the Abyss now. Holy guacamole! They need to put an o between the g and the d.
> Now I guess I know what it's like to get the Ferrari off the driveway and onto the open road.
> 
> So here's how it went down. Got the thing set up, but I noticed the Schiit gugnir was grunting and straining under the heavy load. Treble and mids were fine, but the bass was a bit muddy. I did my "Monster" test - the song by Kanye, Jay-Z and Rick Ross with a deep, rumbly bass that tests the mettle of gear. With the Gugnir it was a bit flabby, but in came the Hugo and it performed like champ. And it was not just aggressive and kicking like an angry mule all the time. Threw on some easy listening, and it buttered both sides of the bread.
> ...


 

 I hope aunt Millie didn't pass away when she found out how much your headphones cost


----------



## rgs9200m

Great story! You should post it on Bogleheads.


----------



## Beolab

Will post a picture of my rig in about one week when all the good stuff has arrived  

:S get almost cold and get the shivers when you are seeing it in perspective that the rig i have / ordered are costing about  $37.000 in total  for a headphone rig, thats sick , My wife would kill me if she knew that, she thinks the headphones are about $700 , Amp $500 , DACś / re-clocker $400, and thats allot  but i haven't laid either id just asked her what she thought the the headphones cost me, and she said that it wasn't any good sound and that her Bose in-ear headphones had much more bass and better overall sound, so tops $700 she said! 

-Don't you hear it!, that its not a good sound and you cant walk around in the apartment with them either she said and left the room! 

Haha !!! 

They live on Venus and we are from Mars i think !


----------



## bigfatpaulie

beolab said:


> Will post a picture of my rig in about one week when all the good stuff has arrived
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a sincere question...   How does your wife not notice $37,000 missing?
  
 I mean, my wife and I look at our financials together and we  plan our equity goals as a team.  $1 would get noticed in our case.


----------



## Beolab

Will post a picture of my rig in about one week when all the good stuff has arrived  

:S get almost cold and get the shivers when you are seeing it in perspective that the rig i have / ordered are costing about  $37.000 in total  for a headphone rig, thats sick , My wife would kill me if she knew that, she thinks the headphones are about $700 , Amp $500 , DACś / re-clocker $400, and thats allot  but i haven't laid either id just asked her what she thought the the headphones cost me, and she said that it wasn't any good sound and that her Bose in-ear headphones had much more bass and better overall sound, so tops $700 she said! 

-Don't you hear it!, that is not a good sound and you cant walk around in the apartment with them either she said and left the room! 

Haha !!! 

They live on Venus and we are from Mars i think !

She sees every penny that goes in and out, but i have a small personal account with some savings on, but the amount are getting smaller and smaller for each year, in the hunt for the best sound for my ears. 
 I like quality stuff and quality handmade/precision products / fashion / building / tune BMWś / interior design and it goes often hand in hand with big $$$, but i cant be more happy for some of my expensive gear and stuff i own.


----------



## mulder01

isquirrel said:


> Current system photo:


 
  
 I'm guessing this is probably the best planar setup in the world today...
  


beolab said:


>


 
  
 lol so one day Beolab's wife is talking to one of her friends and says "He's got these really weird looking headphones now- they're called abyss or something - I'll show you a picture"
 googles 'abyss headphones'
 sees the price
 files for divorce


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> I'm guessing this is probably the best planar setup in the world today...
> 
> 
> lol so one day Beolab's wife is talking to one of her friends and says "He's got these really weird looking headphones now- they're called abyss or something - I'll show you a picture"
> ...




Yes thats could happen! Haha

The most of our friends doesn't even notice the headphone rig even thoug we sit in the dining room where i also have my sofa with the rig placed  

But the taught have crossed my mind, if my wifes twin sisters small children start to play with them , and they get destroyed. 

If i then should tell them the price i think they should pass out on the spot haha.. 

Everyone has a reference to what each thing in the world cost, but this breaks the bounders by far for commonly people


----------



## metalboss

My humble rig


----------



## Beolab

From the rig pictures to DAC's  

Does anyone heard or tried out the highly antissipated the LH Labs VI DAC / Headamp with Abyss yet? 



I also sough that it was already sold out also.. 

I like the design, and the DaVinci dac sound so i find the VI DAC Interesting.

DAC Chipset
Dual ESS9018AQ2M
Supported Resolutions
PCM: 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192, 352.8, 384 kHz at 16, 24, and 32 bit depths
DSD: 2.822, 3.072, 5.644, 6.144, 11.288, 12.228 MHz /1 bit Both DoP and Direct DSD supported

Design Topology
Dual Mono, Fully Balanced, Class A

Clock Circuitry
Dual Femto Oscillators (one for 44.1 kHz and Integer Multiples, a second for 48 kHz and multiples)

Jitter Removal Technology
Proprietary LH Labs 3L Buffer. Dual-PLL for all digital inputs

Power Supply
26 Individual regulation stages, Bipolar Instant Power

Headphone Output
Unbalanced: (1/4” Switchcraft TRS)
Balanced: (4 pin Neutrik)

Headphone Output Power
3.5V/6V/13.8V selectable (0.9 Ohm output impedance)

Volume Control
64-bit Digital Volume Control (All Outputs)
Analog Attenuator (Headphone Outputs)

Analog Line Output
2.1Vrms Unbalanced RCA (47 Ohm output impedance)
4.2 Vrms Balanced XLR

Chassis
Massive CNC chassis with non-parallel walls

THD+N
less than 0.003%

SNR (unweighted)
better than 116 dB (real world test 119 dB)

Dimensions
17” W x 11” D x 3 1/4” H

Weight
18 pounds

Country of Manufacture
Designed and Assembled in the United States


----------



## MaggotBrain

Oh man, Great Aunt Millie would have some choice Lithuanain swear words for me (though when you hear it, all Lithuanian kinda sounds angry and belligerent) if she found out I had cans costing a sizable goat herd in the old country, But there was one indulgence she treated herself to every day for over fifty years. After her husband passed, she was scared to death of cooking anything. Her sister cooked her breakfast and dinner, but every day she would walk half a mile to her favorite restaurant. Was it pierogis or some other Lithuanian delicacy? No, it was.....McDonalds. She thought it was the best thing in the world! The lady ate McDonalds every day for over fifty years (til she was ninety and couldn't walk on her own too far) and lived to be over one hundred. Hopefully some of those genes trickled down the family tree my way. So, to tie this to headphones, this being a headphone thread and all, is that sometimes indulgences don't kill you. I take care of dying people every day, which gives you a sense of appreciation of life's little pleasures.


----------



## potkettleblack

Just saw this add description for a pair of 009's on eBay. Thought I'd post it so you all feel like bad asses.


----------



## Beolab

potkettleblack said:


> Just saw this add description for a pair of 009's on eBay. Thought I'd post it so you all feel like bad asses.




Hahaha !! Best Add of the year!!


----------



## musicbuff

You guys should really stop talking about wives like they're musical aliens.  I'm a wife and I love music and the hobby of chasing that exquisite sound. My first musical component was a portable reel to reel tape deck that I got for Christmas when I was about 8 (which I eventually dismantled to see how it worked).  My husband thinks the most I've paid for a set of headphones was $500 and I have the HD 800's and the Audeze-X (had Grado GS1000e but sold them).  I also have a Calyx Femto DAC and a Marantz 11S3 amp.  If asked what anything costs I never say over $1000.  I do shop around for the best possible prices because I'm all for a great bargain.  As we all know good sound is not cheap.  I'm glad to hear Great Aunt Millie enjoyed herself at McDonalds.  Everybody deserve some indulgence.  I have several indulgences but music is by far my most expensive one and I love it.  So let's remember, some women appreciate this hobby, too.


----------



## mulder01

Fair call - probably should use the term 'partner' rather than 'wife' - looks like you are in the same position though with your partner!  
  
 Mine knows what I spent on all my stuff - we have our finances together, but have our own separate spending money to buy whatever we want with - most of our regular pay is spoken for, but we get a little bit each for spending and any overtime/ bonuses/ anything you get on top of your regular pay is your own too.  So she can't complain when I spend all of mine on headphones and I can't complain when she spends all of hers on clothes.  Works well for us - there is no lies and no arguing about who is "wasting" money...


----------



## ufospls2

Well, I took the plunge and sent payment for a pair. Feels good man. Poor. But good. I hope all the suggestions that for my taste in music the Abyss is a great choice are right. I hope I like the sound signature of them, having not heard them before purchasing.....should be interesting to say the least. Thank you to all who chimed in to help me with my questions.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

ufospls2 said:


> Well, I took the plunge and sent payment for a pair. Feels good man. Poor. But good. I hope all the suggestions that for my taste in music the Abyss is a great choice are right. I hope I like the sound signature of them, having not heard them before purchasing.....should be interesting to say the least. Thank you to all who chimed in to help me with my questions.


 
  
 Congratulations! Be sure to give them time to break-in and have patience to fit em' on you. Once your ears get used to AB, everything else sounds like mi-fi toys. Don't forget to share a selfie wearing AB. 
 I'm enjoying mine....


----------



## mulder01

An iphone add-on for abyss?
 Have you tried the ifi idsd micro?  Do you have a favourite portable option?


----------



## musicbuff

mulder01 said:


> Fair call - probably should use the term 'partner' rather than 'wife' - looks like you are in the same position though with your partner!
> 
> Mine knows what I spent on all my stuff - we have our finances together, but have our own separate spending money to buy whatever we want with - most of our regular pay is spoken for, but we get a little bit each for spending and any overtime/ bonuses/ anything you get on top of your regular pay is your own too.  So she can't complain when I spend all of mine on headphones and I can't complain when she spends all of hers on clothes.  Works well for us - there is no lies and no arguing about who is "wasting" money...


 
 I don't disagree that honesty is the best policy and we do work together to pay the bills (always have).  But the kids are grown now and a bit of indulgence has been earned (on both sides).  His hobby is tinkering with cars, mine is music.  I'd say it's about even.  He's happy and I'm happy.


----------



## MaggotBrain

I have been with Mrs. Maggotbrain (though, in the spirit of the macabre name it should the Bride of MaggotBrain like a horror movie title) for twenty three years. What I always do is budget twice the amount of whatever toy I want (and wait till my birthday or Christmas), and treat her with the other half. what is funny is that the time I budgeted for the Stax setup last year, I treated our family on a trip to Tokyo. Mrs, Maggot loves loves loves Disneyland- it is her favorite place to go (and of course, for those of us who delight in relaxing, soothing a sounds Disneyland has to be the first thing to come to mind) I have been on some Disney trip for the better part of twenty years, and sold her on Tokyo Disneyland. Tokyo Disneyland turns out to be her favorite Disneyland, because unlike other Disneylands everybody is polite and it it isn't as noisy and the food is actually good. Now comes the part where I am rubbing my hands together in glee, because anyone who has every been to Tokyo knows that has Disneyland but also the Disneyland of all things electronics - the Akihabara district. it was my mission to somehow, someway get to the e-earphone store. I get there and am hopelessly lost, as there are no addresses anywhere and I think the store is on the fourth of fifth floor of some office building. I had only a limited amount of time because my wife's high school buddy lived in Tokyo and we had reservations to see her and her family, so I was feverishly asking anybody in any shop I could find how there. I talk to a manga artist, then a to a electronic train salesman, then finally a guy selling swords directed me to store. I honestly thought I would find a better headphone I had at the time, Tried the Sennheiser 800 (like the White Stripes - no bass!), fostex th900 (whose garish laquer cups make our Abyss look fashionable by comparison), and the sounding pretty good (equivalent the ultrasound 8 at over twice the weight) but large-cranium-crushing Audeze headphones. Crestfallen, I check out the portable amps, which led to the Oppo Ha-2 (then Chord Hugo and then in a roundabout way to Abyss in the months to come). Anyway, this little policy led to one our favorite trips ever. I leaned in my chemistry classes that every reaction must have an equal and opposite reaction. So I figure if I balance treats for me with treats for her then all is good. Of course, I still get "how many headphones do you need, you only have one head" - which is tough to argue with, anatomically speaking. Which is why I eventually ended up with the Abyss, because like Mrs. MaggotBrain, you don't need anything better than perfect.


----------



## musicbuff

maggotbrain said:


> I leaned in my chemistry classes that every reaction must have an equal and opposite reaction. So I figure if I balance treats for me with treats for her then all is good. Of course, I still get "*how many headphones do you need, you only have one head*" - which is tough to argue with, anatomically speaking. Which is why I eventually ended up with the Abyss, because like Mrs. MaggotBrain, you don't need anything better than perfect.


 
 I've heard that "one head" question, too  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Very good chemistry class philosophy!  Happy listening!


----------



## aphex27

maggotbrain said:


> Of course, I still get "how many headphones do you need, you only have one head" - which is tough to argue with, anatomically speaking.


 
 There is an answer to the above that will work with every woman
 "How many pairs of shoes do you need, you only have one pair of legs" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Btw, love your stories MaggotBrain


----------



## musicbuff

aphex27 said:


> There is an answer to the above that will work with every woman
> "How many pairs of shoes do you need, you only have one pair of legs"


 
 What should be a music-loving woman's response when her man is asking the *"one head"* question?


----------



## MaggotBrain

I would liken the listening experience to food. It's similar that it's a function wrapped up in good sensation if done right. A convenience store hot dog and 3 star Michelin meal will treat your body the same in terms of functional needs (provided the first stays down), but the latter is more enjoyable for most. You could theoretically get all your nutritional needs met with a soymilk formula, but what's the fun in that? It'll keep you alive, but it's not living. Sometimes you want something classic and refined like a French cuisine (think Stax SR009). Maybe sometimes you feel for something bolder and more flavorful like a hearty Italian meal (think Abyss). And maybe you're young, don't know any better and just want a baloney sandwich (think Beats).


----------



## aphex27

I don't agree with this analogy. The looks/perception/construction of the Abyss are not as refined as the SR-009s but the sound certainly is. Even more so. Somehow the Abyss makers took all the good parts of statics (refinement, quickness) and all the good parts of planars (deep textured bass, lusciousness) and combined them into one headphone. This sounds like a free lunch to me. A free lunch at elBulli.


----------



## ufospls2

Well, this is a stupid question, and I am the first to admit I know next to nothing regarding power, voltage, current, ohms etc...
  
 When I receive my Abyss (powering it with the Auralic Taurus mk2) should I run it in standard mode? Or balanced, as the power output varies. 
  
*Output Power (continuous in RMS)*

 ​STD Mode​BAL Mode​32ohm​4500mW​1200mW​120ohm​1200mW​4500mW​300ohm​500mW​2000mW​600ohm​250mW​1000mW​
  
  
  
 Thanks for the help and apologies for my ignorance.


----------



## mulder01

You can use either - that's the maximum output power - the actual power going to the headphones depends on where you have the volume knob - more volume = more power.  
  
 The Abyss should come with an adapter so you can use it in balanced or single ended mode.  Just try both and see if you think you can hear any difference.  Possibly not (theoretically there should be no difference), but you generally pay a premium for a headphone amp with balanced output, so if you have it, you may as well use it IMO.
  
 In short, either is fine - have a play around.


----------



## ufospls2

mulder01 said:


> You can use either - that's the maximum output power - the actual power going to the headphones depends on where you have the volume knob - more volume = more power.
> 
> The Abyss should come with an adapter so you can use it in balanced or single ended mode.  Just try both and see if you think you can hear any difference.  Possibly not (theoretically there should be no difference), but you generally pay a premium for a headphone amp with balanced output, so if you have it, you may as well use it IMO.
> 
> In short, either is fine - have a play around.


 
 Thats what I figured. When in doubt, play around, haha. I can't wait for my payment to clear and the headphones to ship/arrive. If only my DAC would stop acting up  I hope it doesn't die, I can't afford to replace it right now after the Abyss purchase. There is always something, isn't there!


----------



## Beolab

.


----------



## ufospls2

beolab said:


> Use the XLR 4 pin Balanced output, because you getting half the power otherwise!
> 
> No question what will have the best power.
> 
> ...


 
 How does it work out at almost 8.5 watts @46ohms in balanced mode? I thought the max it could do was 4.5 watts. Goes to show how little I understand this power stuff, haha.


----------



## Beolab

ufospls2 said:


> How does it work out at almost 8.5 watts @46ohms in balanced mode? I thought the max it could do was 4.5 watts. Goes to show how little I understand this power stuff, haha.




Im sorry , forget what i just wrote! 

I read the table totally wrong, im tired, the clock is 02.44 in the night here.  

But for som reason it deliver more power in single mode than i balanced mode, thats odd, but it could be that the amp is not balanced in the design, because the normal thing is double power in Balanced mode if the amp is a balanced build amp. 

So i would try it out in balanced mode for starters and compare it to the SE, you will easy hear if its equal or if the Balanced are better. 

Start working at 10.00 , have to jump in bed.


----------



## mulder01

The power rating you've quoted doesn't really seem to make much sense to me but obviously there is more to it than just ohm's law. 

Doesn't really matter though if one output has the potential for double the power or whatever because you're probably not likely to listen to them any louder than about 1 watt anyway. I have a little portable amp that will put about .63w into them in balanced mode and about half that in single ended so I obviously use the balanced output on that because the single ended is just not loud enough. In your case you'll have enough power from either output. I can use either on my desktop amp too but use the balanced because I paid extra to have it


----------



## discodelico

I can't stops listening my Abyss1266 with my new Viva Egoista 846...
It's the best headphones combo I've ever heard!!!!


----------



## potkettleblack

discodelico said:


> I can't stops listening my Abyss1266 with my new Viva Egoista 846...
> It's the best headphones combo I've ever heard!!!!


Pics? Such a great looking amp (if it's the black and yellow one I think it is).


----------



## ufospls2

Made the mistake of paying by e-cheque on paypal for the Abyss. Still waiting for it to clear. Then shipping time. Ahhhhh!


----------



## goropeza

I just got back from a head-fi meet in Austin and I found the Abyss to be my favorite cans there, even among Stax, he 1000 and LCD 4. Color me impressed


----------



## Kiats

goropeza said:


> I just got back from a head-fi meet in Houston and I found the Abyss to be my favorite cans there, even among Stax, he 1000 and LCD 4. Color me impressed




Hahah! The Abyss is quite something else, isn't it? Everything else is what you expect a headphone to be. And then, there's the Abyss...


----------



## bmichels

Still no news about DIANA, the "baby ABYSS 1266" ?


----------



## mulder01

goropeza said:


> I just got back from a head-fi meet in Houston and I found the Abyss to be my favorite cans there, even among Stax, he 1000 and LCD 4. Color me impressed


 
  
 It is an impressive piece of kit.  What amp(s) did you get to demo?


----------



## goropeza

mulder01 said:


> It is an impressive piece of kit.  What amp(s) did you get to demo?



Well the Stax Sr 007 mk1 and the sr009 were powered by a blue hawaii. I listened to the HE 1000 out of a WA5 and out of a gsx mk2. The Abyss was hooked into the WA5. I honestly wasn't expecting to like them much and I think thy are ugly. My first thought was "man these are uncomfortable". But man as soon as I pressed play I was stunned. Just like that they became my new favorite headphone. It has some design issues but they dont ruin the experience for me.


----------



## Beolab

bmichels said:


> Still no news about DIANA, the "baby ABYSS 1266" ?




Its on hold for a while, because JPS have moved the factory facility i heard from my cuisine in US. 

But i think its going to be a huge hit with the Abyss sound signum!


----------



## matthewhypolite

Ya, I love my Abyss, after using the wire strap mods, they are awesome.


----------



## ufospls2

Welp. They arrived. I won’t make comparisons to other cans just yet as I need some time with them. 
  
 Initial impressions? Wow. Comfier than I thought they would be. Bent the headband a little, got the ear cups in the right place, comfort is now on par with my LCD-3’s. I will see how the weight goes, but it doesn’t seem too bad. 
  
 Sound. Again, wow. Similar to how I thought they would be. Great bass. Mids are a little scooped perhaps, but that is my preference actually, so it works out well. Highs seem pretty well represented, but I need more time with them to really get a feel for what is going on. 
  
 Build quality? F’in tank. Makes my HE1000’s look like a joke, though they are heavier. Its a trade off I suppose. 
  
 I will post comparisons to other cans in a day or two once I get more used to them. Happy listening guys, hope you all have a good day


----------



## bigfatpaulie

ufospls2 said:


> Welp. They arrived. I won’t make comparisons to other cans just yet as I need some time with them.
> 
> Initial impressions? Wow. Comfier than I thought they would be. Bent the headband a little, got the ear cups in the right place, comfort is now on par with my LCD-3’s. I will see how the weight goes, but it doesn’t seem too bad.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Congrats!!  
  
 What kind of amp/source are you using with the Abyss?  I found the mids a bit laid back at the beginning, but it turned out to be symptomatic of things up-stream, not the Abyss itself.


----------



## ufospls2

bigfatpaulie said:


> Congrats!!
> 
> What kind of amp/source are you using with the Abyss?  I found the mids a bit laid back at the beginning, but it turned out to be symptomatic of things up-stream, not the Abyss itself.


 
 Right now I'm only able to listen with my LH Labs GOV2. Tonight I will be able to listen with my Auralic Taurus MK2 and Resonessence Labs Concero HD. Next upgrade is a better DAC. I'm doing the best I can within my budget. I find headphones make the biggest difference, so now I have that sorted, I can work on the rest of the chain


----------



## bigfatpaulie

ufospls2 said:


> Right now I'm only able to listen with my LH Labs GOV2. Tonight I will be able to listen with my Auralic Taurus MK2 and Resonessence Labs Concero HD. Next upgrade is a better DAC. I'm doing the best I can within my budget. I find* headphones make the biggest difference*, so now I have that sorted, I can work on the rest of the chain


 
  
 I agree - they show you all the problems with your other gear 
  
 And the Abyss are merciless.  
  
 You've taken the first step on a very expensive, but very rewarding, road.  The good thing is that if you really love the Abyss, you can forget about spending more on headphones and just focus on your amp, etc.


----------



## Beolab

bigfatpaulie said:


> I agree - they show you all the problems with your other gear
> 
> And the Abyss are merciless.
> 
> You've taken the first step on a very expensive, but very rewarding, road.  The good thing is that if you really love the Abyss, you can forget about spending more on headphones and just focus on your amp, etc.




Amen to that!


----------



## nassq8

ufospls2 said:


> Welp. They arrived. I won’t make comparisons to other cans just yet as I need some time with them.



 


Congrats! I still cannot imagine anything sound better than HE1000 according to my preference; however, since you are HE1000 owner as well, I'm really intrested to hear your impression and comparison of the 2s


----------



## mulder01

bigfatpaulie said:


> I found the mids a bit laid back at the beginning, but it turned out to be symptomatic of things up-stream, not the Abyss itself.


 
  
 I have actually been playing around with the idea of a new portable option for the abyss (ifi idsd micro) and actually thought it was a bit too much in the midrange for my liking (compared with the v281 which is a bit more relaxed).  So I would tend to agree with you there.


----------



## ufospls2

So here are some initial impressions of the Abyss and some quick comparisons to other headphones. I like them, a lot. They are my favourite headphones I have heard, tied with the SR-009. Tied because they are so different, and I’m not sure I could say one is better than the other, it is totally personal preference. You might love the SR-009, you might love the Abyss, you might love both for different reasons. I think some of the poor reviews and impressions of the Abyss may come from meets where people haven’t been able to, or had time, to get the fit right. When I first put them on my head my reaction was…”uwotm8.” However, after a bit fiddling, extending, and toe’ing outwards, I have gotten a great, comfy fit. I would say they are similar to the LCD-3 in terms of feeling on the head. I’m not sure what the weight differences are, but they feel similar. I think once you get to this level of headphone, quite a lot of liking them or disliking them will be personal preference. You may prefer such and such headphone, while I may prefer another. “They” are all good (within reason.)
  
 Edit. This is all listening with an Auralic Taurus and Resonessence Labs Concero HD. Opinions, sound, could all be different with different gear. Doing the best with what I have for the moment. 
  
 Below are my opinions, yours may differ. That is why I recommend trying before buying if at all possible. I didn’t with the Abyss because I wasn’t able to, and it was a real gamble, but thankfully it has paid off and I like them.
  
 The HD800 is more comfortable. It is light and airy on the head. After living with the HE1000 and now the Abyss, they lack bass to me. In all other areas they are awesome. The mids and treble are clean, and precise. I don’t find the treble on the HD800 a problem even unmodified. They have a “taller” soundstage than the Abyss, if that makes sense? The Abyss is almost as wide. I find the HD800 a bit cold and clinical, but it is an absolute bargain nowadays in terms of flagship headphones, especially used. Build quality is great on the HD800, it just needs thicker paint. Vs. the Abyss, the build quality is the same in terms of quality, just completely different in terms of materials used in construction etc..
  
 The LCD-3 is similar to the Abyss in terms of comfort. The Abyss is like an LCD-3 +5-10% in all areas soundwise. Bigger soundstage, better imaging, better bass (both in quantity and quality,) more similar to the HD800 in terms of mids and treble. Less “warm,” but not cold and clinical like the HD800. I really like the LCD-3’s wood, and build quality. In terms of reliability, the LCD-3 seems to have had a lot of trouble lately, I never had trouble with mine, but there you go. I haven’t read of Abyss failures, but I have only had mine for a day, so fingers crossed for the future. 
  
 The HE1000. In terms of comfort, the HE1000 probably edges out the Abyss a tiny bit, but not by much. The quality of bass on the Abyss is better.  It is punchier. The mids and treble are better, “faster” if that makes sense. Soundstage is wider and as tall, on the Abyss vs. the HE1000, but the sound has far more impact to it on the Abyss. Build quality wise, and quality of materials used in construction, the HE1000 is a joke, so lets just say the Abyss wins in that department and leave it there.
  
 The Stax SR-009. As I said earlier, they are two completely different animals. I’ve read the Abyss is “faster” than the SR-009, but I disagree. The SR-009 is the fastest headphone I have heard. It is like the notes are tied together. The Abyss has more bass, but in terms of punch and quality of bass, I’d say they are tied. The SR-009 is light and airy and beautiful, the Abyss is hardcore and punchy. Two totally different headphones. I like both equally for different reasons. I bought my Abyss used, so the cost of a Price Japan SR-009 + alright amp was slightly more than my Abyss. If you are buying a new Abyss, or buying a GOOD amp to go with the SR-009, price could be more or less depending. Build quality, the Stax wins I think, but only by a little bit. It is also a bit comfier. 
  
 What I would really like to compare the Abyss to is the LCD-4, but I don’t own one. Hopefully in the future? haha. I think the $4000 vs $4500 (Lite package) is interesting. Is the Abyss worth the extra $500? I don’t know yet. Im guessing it will be personal preference, and they will be similar, but that is just a guess. It seems like the Abyss’s most comparable competitor. 
  
 The type of music used in these comparisons was mostly electronic bass heavy stuff, contrasted with jazz and film scores. I threw in a bit of the Police here and there, and some metal as well. 
  
 Again, all of this stuff is so subjective in my opinion. The comfort of all these headphones will depend on your head, and your sound preference will dictate which you like more. I’m not sure what else to say. Is the price of the Abyss worth it? I'm not sure. If you want that extra 5-10% over the LCD-3, HE1000 etc.. then yes, I think it is. Any questions just ask I guess


----------



## jhljhl

ufospls2 said:


> Again, all of this stuff is so subjective in my opinion. The comfort of all these headphones will depend on your head, and your sound preference will dictate which you like more. I’m not sure what else to say. Is the price of the Abyss worth it? I'm not sure. If you want that extra 5-10% over the LCD-3, HE1000 etc.. then yes, I think it is. Any questions just ask I guess


 
 I would put it at more like 10-15% over the lcd-3f.  But I agree generally in that- is the Abyss worth the price of 2 LCD3-f headphones for that improvement - for rock and bass heavy music maybe.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Glad you are liking them!!
  
 That's weird that your Abyss distort with a "bass boost"...  I would suspect that that is your amp clipping or something vs the Abyss having issues.  You aren't running a big amp so I would suspect that.  To be honest, a lot of what you are writing (the HD800's lacking bass, being cold, etc) sound like issues with your amp more than the headphones.  I've had a very different experience with the same headphones, but different stuff up-stream - but that's me, IMHO, YMMV, etc.
  
 Anyway, I look forward to your future impressions with them and congrats again on a great pair of headphones!


----------



## ufospls2

bigfatpaulie said:


> Glad you are liking them!!
> 
> That's weird that your Abyss distort with a "bass boost"...  I would suspect that that is your amp clipping or something vs the Abyss having issues.  You aren't running a big amp so I would suspect that.  To be honest, a lot of what you are writing (the HD800's lacking bass, being cold, etc) sound like issues with your amp more than the headphones.  I've had a very different experience with the same headphones, but different stuff up-stream - but that's me, IMHO, YMMV, etc.
> 
> Anyway, I look forward to your future impressions with them and congrats again on a great pair of headphones!


 
 Agreed, I don't have the best source gear, its a work in progress. I should have put a disclaimer on my post. Broke right now, but at the beginning of a long journey. I'd like to hear the Abyss with the Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD, but that is another 4 grand, so...maybe not this minute.


----------



## Beolab

ufospls2 said:


> Agreed, I don't have the best source gear, its a work in progress. I should have put a disclaimer on my post. Broke right now, but at the beginning of a long journey. I'd like to hear the Abyss with the Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD, but that is another 4 grand, so...maybe not this minute.




The HE1K are bass/sub light in comparison with the Abyss if you connect it with proper gear and a high end amp. The abyss are much heavier load for the amp than the Hifiman HE1K. 

Then the LCD-3 comparison may be true on your system, but not on a great system, then the LCD-3 are way behind in my opinion. 

I think the LCD-3 should win an Award for being the most dark / dull / recessed High End headphone on the market today! 

The Abyss sounds as Kharma high end speakers, the rest sounds as decent headphones in my opinion. And yes i like the SR-009 too but it is a totally different sound, more situated for classical chamber music on low-mid volume levels.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

beolab said:


> I think the LCD-3 should win an Award for being the most dark / dull / recessed High End headphone on the market today!


 
  
 Have you head the TH-900's?  That's a dark, recessed phone.  I actually liked the LCD3's.  But I totally agree - the Abyss are a whole different ball game.
  
  
 I think what Beolab is saying really speaks the truth: the Abyss, in the right system, are a totally unique and incomparable headphone.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

bigfatpaulie said:


> Have you head the TH-900's?  That's a dark, recessed phone.  I actually liked the LCD3's.  But I totally agree - the Abyss are a whole different ball game.
> 
> 
> I think what Beolab is saying really speaks the truth: the Abyss, in the right system, are a totally unique and incomparable headphone.


 
  
 stock TH900 is unlistenable compared to Abyss. Stock TH900 is harsh on the treble and very sibilant....


----------



## bigfatpaulie

hifiguy528 said:


> stock TH900 is unlistenable compared to Abyss. Stock TH900 is harsh on the treble and very sibilant....


 
  
 HAHA!!  I was trying to be polite and not totally bash them, but yeah....


----------



## HiFiGuy528

bigfatpaulie said:


> HAHA!!  I was trying to be polite and not totally bash them, but yeah....


 
  





 only stating the facts... maybe TH900 MK2 is better.
  
 For stock TH900 owners, I recommend going with Denon D7000 ear pads, genuine ones. Not the eBay specials...


----------



## Beolab

bigfatpaulie said:


> Have you head the TH-900's?  That's a dark, recessed phone.  I actually liked the LCD3's.  But I totally agree - the Abyss are a whole different ball game.
> 
> 
> I think what Beolab is saying really speaks the truth: the Abyss, in the right system, are a totally unique and incomparable headphone.




True facts! 

It is very easy to misjudge the Abyss if you don't have the proper amp


----------



## ufospls2

I'd like to hear them on a more powerful set up. Joe from JPS Labs said the Taurus would drive them just fine, just it might be a bit clinical and that I would ultimately seek better. Im guessing nothing is wrong with the headphones as at lower volumes they play absolutely fine, so the drivers are not blown, so the distortion issue is weird. Must be my amp


----------



## nassq8

ufospls2 said:


> I'd like to hear them on a more powerful set up. Joe from JPS Labs said the Taurus would drive them just fine, just it might be a bit clinical and that I would ultimately seek better. Im guessing nothing is wrong with the headphones as at lower volumes they play absolutely fine, so the drivers are not blown, so the distortion issue is weird. Must be my amp



 


Thank you for your great and detailed impression. It is weird that you are experiencing such distortion. Your testing amp is powerful enough to drive any headphone to max as per its specification. I think you need a burn-in period (mentally and mechanically, which's I don't take seriously as mental one) to absorb all these variables around Abyss


----------



## mulder01

beolab said:


> Then the LCD-3 comparison may be true on your system, but not on a great system, then the LCD-3 are way behind in my opinion.


 
  
 Agreed.  Abyss is on a whole other level imo


----------



## Kiats

mulder01 said:


> Agreed.  Abyss is on a whole other level imo




Indeed.... I own the TH900 and LCD 3 as well, and they do not come close to the Abyss.


----------



## bmichels

hifiguy528 said:


> stock TH900 is unlistenable compared to Abyss. Stock TH900 is harsh on the treble and very sibilant....


 
  
 Respectfully, I must disagree: I have TH900 since 3 years and still enjoy them.  
  
 I have tried HD800s, HE1000, Dhrama...and none of them could justifiy being purchased to replace my TH900.  For me, after listening carefully, Only BHSE+SR009 could justify the replacement !   
  
 So, as we all say, *different people, different ears.*.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 This said, I will be happy to try the "Denon D7000 ear pads" mod.   What can I expect from this mod ?


----------



## up late

^ i like the abyss sonically but i can't agree with his comparison with the th900 either, which strikes me as a gross exaggeration.


----------



## Beolab

ufospls2 said:


> I'd like to hear them on a more powerful set up. Joe from JPS Labs said the Taurus would drive them just fine, just it might be a bit clinical and that I would ultimately seek better. Im guessing nothing is wrong with the headphones as at lower volumes they play absolutely fine, so the drivers are not blown, so the distortion issue is weird. Must be my amp




The Taurus II is no monster it deliver under 0,7 watts @ 46 Ohm if you are using balanced output which is way to little power for the Abyss, but more sutiable for the He1k. 

It then deliver 3.1 watt in SE mode so it is no problem do have the amp clip if you using EQ with like +3 db in the 20-100Hz band the current dips and the Amp max out= Clip

I have tested my Abyss with many Amps and for example the Pathos with a Stated output of 3,3 Watt @ 32 Ohms clipped when you played heavy dynamic music, so i dont see it as a unusual thing. 

You need a Amp that outputs 7 watts in 46 Ohm at minimum. 

My Audio GD NFB-1 had about 6,8 watt balanced in 46Ohm and it was impossible to make it clip at all even if played at Max volume. 

Sim Audio Moon outputs almost the same power as the NFB-1 and sounds the same almost. 

My Headtrip deliver 17 watt in 46 Ohm so here it is impossible to make it clip and you have plenty power on tap. 

And you have the Enigma that is a more economic Headtrip with the same power.


----------



## ufospls2

Any thoughts on the Schiit Ragnarok and the Abyss together? The Ragnarok seems to be a beast power wise, but I have never heard it. I have heard the Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD and really liked it, but it is a good $2000 more than the Ragnarok.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

ufospls2 said:


> Any thoughts on the Schiit Ragnarok and the Abyss together? The Ragnarok seems to be a beast power wise, but I have never heard it. I have heard the Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD and really liked it, but it is a good $2000 more than the Ragnarok.


 
  
 You are probably better off going vintage at that point.  I suspect that the Rag would be more of a side-step than an upgrade vs your Taurus.  You bought a big money headphone.  Get ready to pony up for a big money amp...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Otherwise you are driving a sports car with crummy tires - money well wasted.


----------



## ufospls2

bigfatpaulie said:


> You are probably better off going vintage at that point.  I suspect that the Rag would be more of a side-step than an upgrade vs your Taurus.  You bought a big money headphone.  Get ready to pony up for a big money amp...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I was thinking of the more than double the power from the ragnarok vs. the taurus, and it has even more power than the 430 HA. I'm not against a big money amp. I just want to make sure that if I go down that road, I get something with enough juice to get the best out of the Abyss. 
  
 Edit: I also don't think more expensive= necessarily better. Maybe the Ragnarok+Abyss is a good pairing, thats why I asked.


----------



## Beolab

Then go for the Wells Audio Enigma $4000 17 watts @ 46 Ohms (50watts @ 8 Ohms), or the Cavalli Liquid Gold with 10 watts @ 46 Ohms, these amps are made with the Abyss in mind if you like SS amps. 



http://www.wellsaudio.com/products/headphone-amplifiers/enigma



*Sold Out* 

http://www.cavalliaudio.com/index.php?p=product_details&pId=9

The Moon 430 with 9 watts @ 46 Ohms have great flow and sounds great, but i think it laks in sub bass capability and little warmth combined with the Abyss sadly. 
It is to neutral in my opinion. 
You need more current drive from the first 1-4 watt like the big boys got. With the 430 i find to be a slow starter and even if you set the volume at 70-80 there is not enough bass where it should be if i compare it to a reference. But the feeling in the volume control nob is world class nevertheless 

Otherwise as mentioned before, you have the highly regarded Sim Audio Moon 600i speaker amp with 22 watts @ 46Ohms or 125watts @ 8 Ohms. 
You can find it used one in mint condition for about $3500-5000 , but you will need banana - 4 pin adapter cable to connect it. 

Or If you want a Tube amp then the the 
Woo Audio WA5 is an good alternative.


----------



## mulder01

ufospls2 said:


> Any thoughts on the Schiit Ragnarok and the Abyss together? The Ragnarok seems to be a beast power wise, but I have never heard it. I have heard the Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD and really liked it, but it is a good $2000 more than the Ragnarok.


 
  
 I think it all depends who you talk to - a friend of mine has just bought an Abyss + Ragnarok because he is convinced that it's the best amp for them, but some people say it's a bit so-so.  One thing I did notice about the Ragnarok is that it gets very hot and on a hot day in a small room, well, you would want to have air conditioning.
  
 The Moon has it's fans but I was having a bit of a read through the thread for my amp (v281) and a couple of v281 owners had owned the Moon 430 and sold it because they liked the vio better - and it's more like ragnarok pricing.  Also has a nice compact footprint and barely gets warm but it doesn't do speakers so I guess it depends what you want.
  
 I don't think massive amounts of power are an absolute necessity - if you type the Abyss specs into a headphone power calculator, (below) you need 1 watt to listen very loud and 3 watts if you want to listen on the threshold of pain.  Though a bit of headroom is probably a good thing for great bass at very high volumes, maybe a '7 watt minimum' is a little bit of an exaggeration.


----------



## mulder01

Well, if a liquid gold was ever on your shortlist, you might be out of luck - Cavalli has just announced their next run of liquid golds will be the last ones ever...


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> I think it all depends who you talk to - a friend of mine has just bought an Abyss + Ragnarok because he is convinced that it's the best amp for them, but some people say it's a bit so-so.  One thing I did notice about the Ragnarok is that it gets very hot and on a hot day in a small room, well, you would want to have air conditioning.
> 
> The Moon has it's fans but I was having a bit of a read through the thread for my amp (v281) and a couple of v281 owners had owned the Moon 430 and sold it because they liked the vio better - and it's more like ragnarok pricing.  Also has a nice compact footprint and barely gets warm but it doesn't do speakers so I guess it depends what you want.
> 
> I don't think massive amounts of power are an absolute necessity - if you type the Abyss specs into a headphone power calculator, (below) you need 1 watt to listen very loud and 3 watts if you want to listen on the threshold of pain.  Though a bit of headroom is probably a good thing for great bass at very high volumes, maybe a '7 watt minimum' is a little bit of an exaggeration.




Moulder, feel free to buy a 1-3 watt amp and connect it with the Abyss, and see if you are going to be happy, i don't think so, because the Abyss is a too heavy load unfortunately, thats why i listed a couple of amps thats is made for the Abyss, so please don't give any miss leading believes here, because i have gone the same amp road, and the headphones needs power, more than the Moon 430 can deliver. 

Its not that you are going to play high on a high powered amp, it is the opposite, you hear all register more balanced with more control and drive earlier in the volume ladder.


----------



## aphex27

ufospls2 said:


> So here are some initial impressions of the Abyss and some quick comparisons to other headphones. I like them, a lot. They are my favourite headphones I have heard, tied with the SR-009. Tied because they are so different, and I’m not sure I could say one is better than the other, it is totally personal preference. You might love the SR-009, you might love the Abyss, you might love both for different reasons. I think some of the poor reviews and impressions of the Abyss may come from meets where people haven’t been able to, or had time, to get the fit right. When I first put them on my head my reaction was…”uwotm8.” However, after a bit fiddling, extending, and toe’ing outwards, I have gotten a great, comfy fit. *I would say they are similar to the LCD-3 in terms of feeling on the head.* I’m not sure what the weight differences are, but they feel similar. I think once you get to this level of headphone, quite a lot of liking them or disliking them will be personal preference. You may prefer such and such headphone, while I may prefer another. “They” are all good (within reason.)
> 
> Edit. This is all listening with an Auralic Taurus and Resonessence Labs Concero HD. Opinions, sound, could all be different with different gear. Doing the best with what I have for the moment.
> 
> ...


 

 Nice review!
 However you are wearing your Abyss wrong.
 The fit should be absolutely nothing like the LCD-3. Try to make them touch your ears as little as possible.
 Then you will understand how immensely superior to the LCD-3 they are.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

mulder01 said:


> I think it all depends who you talk to - a friend of mine has just bought an Abyss + Ragnarok because *he is convinced that it's the best amp for them*, but some people say it's a bit so-so.


 
  
 You read stuff like all the time.  Has he heard it with anything better than the Rag?  And if so, could he AFFORD something better than the Rag?  It could be a case of either ignorance or sour grapes.
  
 Or that he just does prefer it....


----------



## ufospls2

beolab said:


> Then go for the Wells Audio Enigma $4000 17 watts @ 46 Ohms (50watts @ 8 Ohms), or the Cavalli Liquid Gold with 10 watts @ 46 Ohms, these amps are made with the Abyss in mind if you like SS amps.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Shows how subjective this hobby is as in the moon 430 ha thread it said that Joe from JPS Labs was using the 430 as one of the amps to showcase the abyss. *shrugs* I'll figure it out eventually. It seems like lots of people like the 430 with the abyss, and I liked it when I heard it with my HE1000's, so maybe I would like it with the abyss. Who knows.


----------



## ufospls2

beolab said:


> The Taurus II is no monster it deliver under 0,7 watts @ 46 Ohm if you are using balanced output which is way to little power for the Abyss, but more sutiable for the He1k.
> 
> It then deliver 3.1 watt in SE mode so it is no problem do have the amp clip if you using EQ with like +3 db in the 20-100Hz band the current dips and the Amp max out= Clip
> 
> ...


 
 Beolab a few pages back you said 
  
 "Go for the Abyss, you wont regret it in the long run, and *you do not have to worry about the power from the Taurus.*

 It where among the best dedicated SS headamps for Abyss in 2013 when it was released, but there is just a few amps maybe that have surpassed it slightly, but it is a good combo with a slight cleanliness like the SR-009 tone to it, so you have the both of the to worlds.
 "
  
 Now you are saying it doesn't have enough power at all for the Abyss. Uwotm8. No worries, just curious why the switch of opinion?


----------



## Beolab

ufospls2 said:


> Beolab a few pages back you said
> 
> "Go for the Abyss, you wont regret it in the long run, and *you do not have to worry about the power from the Taurus.*
> 
> ...




Yes the Taurus amp is very good for many headphones owners, but as you mentioned in your review that it clipped using the EQ, and you taught HE1K had greater sub bass performance which they dont have if the Abyss are proper amped, and because of that the HE1K load are easier for the amp to handle. 
So my conclution is that Taurus may not be the amp for you with your listening criterias, you need a more powerfull one is my simple diagnose. 

From the beginning we did not discuss what sort of music you where playing or if you used an EQ for the signal, that change your criteria and selection of amp. 

Then the Moon 430 Neo amp, yes it can drive the Abyss, but not effortlessly because the bass are ressed and does not have som much warmth either from my listening impressions as it have with other headphones with higher sensitivity. 

So before you buy any new amp i would recommend you to listen to the Moon 430 and compare it to the Wells Enigma / Headtrip and the Woo Wa5 amp at the next CanJam near you so you find a reference to what you like. 

And if you dont have any near dealer or CanJam, then i would suggest a amp with greater power, because from what you are wrighting you have the same criteria as myself i think. 

But hey ! You got one of the best headphones in the world ever made, and our HiFi-hobby road never stops, it just moving forward for everyone. 

Enjoy !


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The power argument has been going on for a long time. J. Gordon Holt wrote an article in 1962 that from time to time gets republished, as it did a few weeks ago here...http://www.stereophile.com/content/amplifier-power-how-much-enough#1tPP2HYILOBkQbgk.97

I appreciate big amps. enjoy 500 watt mono amps on 2 way loudspeakers, augmented with 2 JL subs below 40 Hz. Of course I'm not pushing 500 watts into a 7" woofer. With smaller amps, bass energy at some point just hits a wall and you hear the amp sort of just go to jello, mid and high freq content sounds compressed and distorted at higher levels, the sound of audio reproduction starving for more power. Each amp design reacts and sounds differently when they hit their limits. Big amps never run out of power, they sound much more effortless. Let's just say I've never hit a wall with the 500 watt mono's, at any listening level they always play clean.

I should add however that you need to understand the limits of the speakers or headphones- With power comes the need for restraint.


----------



## Beolab

joe skubinski said:


> The power argument has been going on for a long time. J. Gordon Holt wrote an article in 1962 that from time to time gets republished, as it did a few weeks ago here...http://www.stereophile.com/content/amplifier-power-how-much-enough#1tPP2HYILOBkQbgk.97
> 
> I appreciate big amps. enjoy 500 watt mono amps on 2 way loudspeakers, augmented with 2 JL subs below 40 Hz. Of course I'm not pushing 500 watts into a 7" woofer. With smaller amps, bass energy at some point just hits a wall and you hear the amp sort of just go to jello, mid and high freq content sounds compressed and distorted at higher levels, the sound of audio reproduction starving for more power. Each amp design reacts and sounds differently when they hit their limits. Big amps never run out of power, they sound much more effortless. Let's just say I've never hit a wall with the 500 watt mono's, at any listening level they always play clean.
> 
> I should add however that you need to understand the limits of the speakers or headphones- With power comes the need for restraint.


 

 Amen!


----------



## Joe Skubinski

No need to argue about the size of our amps. Some like them big, some like them small, all depends on what you listen to.

The trouble with a distortion spec is it only gives you a snapshot at one point and level in time into a fixed load. A distortion graph showing multiple harmonics throughout the frequency range is a bit more useful but rarely given.

In any case, distortions are like cholesterol, there's good and there's bad, and as long as you need to eat, you're going to get both.

The sound of the primary distortions is what gets noticed, second order harmonic distortion (such as with tube amps) or a level spread of second and third order harmonics tend to sound better than third only (solid state w/ negative feedback, as an example). So you could have say 0.5% THD, but if it's mostly second order, it can actually sound better than say 0.1% of all third harmonic. There's also intermodulation distortion (IMD) which are frequencies created out of thin air from the musical information, to our brains they have no relationship to the fundamental musical notes, makes instruments sound broken. This type of distortion is unpredictable, and again a little can go a long way on the annoying scale. There's no measurement that can tell you what this will sound like from one system to the next as it's dependent on the content of the music at any given set of notes playing simultaneously.

With headphones you do not have a large room and loudspeaker/crossover distortions as a mask or buffer, so there's no hiding a bad sounding set of distortions, even if they are quite low. If you like to turn up the volume, not only does the music get louder, but so do the distortions. IMO best to minimize the bad and maximize the good.




mulder01 said:


> The article is obviously pretty old, but nowadays, when they rate an amplifier at X amount of distortion and X watts, shouldn't that distortion be measured at the rated output power?   Or is it measured at 80% output, or 1w output or is there no standard and the manufacturer can spin their measurements any way they want to make the specs look better?


----------



## discodelico

I've listened my Abyss with Moon Neo 430 HA & they sounded great, but if you can afford a Viva Egoista..... it's THE BEST amplifier I've ever heard.


----------



## isquirrel

discodelico said:


> I've listened my Abyss with Moon Neo 430 HA & they sounded great, but if you can afford a Viva Egoista..... it's THE BEST amplifier I've ever heard.


 

 Beautiful turntable you have there, congrats.


----------



## MaggotBrain

Living here in Hawaii, I haven't had the opportunity to personally check out a lot of the summit-if equipment listed here (except for a brief listening spree when on vacation in Tokyo). I depend on the opinions of those in forums such as these, and it's been incredibly informative and helpful. I come from a science background - and you treat purchase scientifically when considering big purchases like an Abyss - I read the whole thread and most every articles, viewed most YouTube reviews You find follow whose opinion you value and hear how they inttrepert their findings and measurements and then you figuratively take the leap and buy the thing. 

So as this issue of trying things out yourself comes to the forefront, allow me to share a anecdote - marginally related to abyss as always but I think it's worthwhile to mention. A few months back - actually taking the Thanksgiving turkey out of the oven (something you're spared from doing Down Under, Mulder!) - I tweaked my back. Thought it was a strain at first, and went throug all of the standard treatments. Keep in mind I'm a doctor who takes care of the elderly, so this is my bread and butter. I do the Standard antiinflammatory Meds and back exercises with no luck. Then I sprinkled some of my tricks of the trade, including alternating hot packs the ice and even a TENS unit (zapping electrodes in the back - this is an electronics forum of sorts so I'm semi on track here) Still no relief and I'm pulling at straws then I running errands at Costco and I see an inversion machine - basically a tilting table that dangles you upside down like a bat except you're tethered by the ankles. Crazy, right. Then I remembered I had an MRI years back showing disc degeneration and figured this might spread the suckers apart a bit. But even then I didn't take the plunge - I had to do my scientific test - so, get this, at the playground, I tell my five year " look to see if your daddy can dangle upside down" - so I do it - and, kids, don't try this at home because I am a certifiable nut who used to climb super high oak trees and pick up snapping turtles and all kinds of goofy possibly self injurious nut job things as a kid and some of the folly still lingers. So I go on the monkey bars,, dangle upside down for 5-10 minutes and, lo and behold, I can actually walk upright like a proper homo sapien and not a chimp. So I listened to my experience, took the plunge, bought. the thing and I feel well enough to babble incomprehensibly again. After a week 90 percent of the pain is gone and I hope for more in the weeks to come. So to bring this back to Abyss - this is about the Abyss, right? - listen to folks you know and trust and listen to those with experience especially. Do that and you can literally save yourself from some pain!


----------



## discodelico

Thank you!
It's my Kuzma XLDC, with a Kuzma 4point.

You've got the Audeze LCD4!!!! 
Did you compared them with LCD3?


----------



## Currawong

Edit: Please avoid getting personal with each other and also remember that this is an _impressions_ thread. Regardless of the fact that nobody is going to put the full output of a high-power amp into their headphones people are interested in reading about the experiences with high-end amps.


----------



## ufospls2

Ok guys. I will have to edit my impressions post regarding the sub bass and distortion. It is a problem with my Auralic Taurus, there is something wrong with it. I have tried other headphones now and it is the same issue, distortion, especially with a bit eq in the low end. I have just acquired an adapter to run my Geek Out V2 in balanced mode with my Abyss, and it is only able to put out 1000mw of power, and the bass and sub bass is fantastic, and not distorting. There is the physicality, and impact I was hoping to experience with the Abyss. 
  
 I am VERY happy with these headphones now. I can't WAIT to hear them with a more powerful amp than the Geek Out V2 that is properly functioning. 
  
 I am VERY bummed about my Taurus, but hopefully I can get it fixed via warranty  I have emailed Auralic and will see what they say.


----------



## Currawong

ufospls2 said:


> Ok guys. I will have to edit my impressions post regarding the sub bass and distortion. It is a problem with my Auralic Taurus, there is something wrong with it. I have tried other headphones now and it is the same issue, distortion, especially with a bit eq in the low end. I have just acquired an adapter to run my Geek Out V2 in balanced mode with my Abyss, and it is only able to put out 1000mw of power, and the bass and sub bass is fantastic, and not distorting. There is the physicality, and impact I was hoping to experience with the Abyss.
> 
> I am VERY happy with these headphones now. I can't WAIT to hear them with a more powerful amp than the Geek Out V2 that is properly functioning.
> 
> I am VERY bummed about my Taurus, but hopefully I can get it fixed via warranty  I have emailed Auralic and will see what they say.


 

 Did you say earlier that you were EQ'ing up the bass and that it was clipping? I'm wondering, if so, if the distortion isn't caused by the EQ causing the DAC to clip.


----------



## ufospls2

currawong said:


> Did you say earlier that you were EQ'ing up the bass and that it was clipping? I'm wondering, if so, if the distortion isn't caused by the EQ causing the DAC to clip.


 
 No this is without EQ and with EQ that it is distorting, at different frequencies. I've tried a different DAC as well. EQ just makes it worse. I'll try another DAC if I can get my hands on one though. Can't hurt.


----------



## Currawong

Make sure any EQ is completely disabled in your software. You might want to double-check with another transport (eg: A DAP with the EQ confirmed off) rather than another DAC.


----------



## ufospls2

currawong said:


> Make sure any EQ is completely disabled in your software. You might want to double-check with another transport (eg: A DAP with the EQ confirmed off) rather than another DAC.


 
 Ok cool. Will try today.


----------



## Xecuter

bigfatpaulie said:


> You read stuff like all the time.  Has he heard it with anything better than the Rag?  And if so, could he AFFORD something better than the Rag?  It could be a case of either ignorance or sour grapes.
> 
> Or that he just does prefer it....


 
 Hi there, I'm that friend.
  
 I have heard it from wa234,  taurus, wa5, gsx-mkii, LaU, prautes and from the vio 281. 
  
 I chose the Rag based on my Dac, which is an r2r sfd-1 mkII SE+. It gets way too hot for my apartment and I'm already considering ditching it.
  
 I have no idea what to replace it with. Thinking Eddie Current studio maybe?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

xecuter said:


> Hi there, I'm that friend.
> 
> I have heard it from wa234,  taurus, wa5, gsx-mkii, LaU, prautes and from the vio 281.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry to hear about the heat issues...  I don't know if a tube amp will be better though.
  
 Are you considering the Studio Jr?  The original Studio is sold out - at least as far I know.  Why no consider a Moon 600i?  It runs cooler (as far as I remember) and sounds much better than a Rag.


----------



## potkettleblack

Mulder - can you elaborate on your findings with the IFI idsd micro with Abyss when you get chance mate.

You mentioned earlier the effect it had on the mids bringing them too forward - or did I not read it properly?

I'd planned on getting one solely to use for demo on payday this month.


----------



## Xecuter

I have some friends who have the Eddie Current studio on order, who flip a lot of stuff. I don't think I'd bother with the junior.
  
 I have never head the 600i, nor anything from Moon.  I think to say anything is much better than anything past the ragnarok is an over statement. However I will entertain the suggestion and audition it where I can. 
  
 I am honestly not a big fan of the moon audio company (or woo for that matter)  and would prefer to buy from a master amp builder like Craig, Kevin or Donald.
  
 I also would prefer a tube amp so I have the option to tube role. 
  
 Honestly the Rag at this point has not impressed me with speakers or from the SE. I need more time with the Balanced output to make a true judgement of the ragnarok. 
  
 Best
 X


----------



## bigfatpaulie

xecuter said:


> I have some friends who have the Eddie Current studio on order, who flip a lot of stuff. I don't think I'd bother with the junior.
> 
> I have never head the 600i, nor anything from Moon.  I think to say anything is much better than anything past the ragnarok is an over statement. However I will entertain the suggestion and audition it where I can.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 The Studio is supposed to be really something special.  I've heard it isn't traditionally "tubey" sounding and more played the EC house sound.  There are many SS amp makers out there and if Moon isn't your thing someone out there makes an amp with a similar signature to the Rag (if that's your cup of tea).  
  
 A SuSy Dynahi may be your ticket from what you are talking about - at least that would be my best guess based on what you're saying if you were to stay SS.  For tubes....  Well...  The world is your oyster.   Good luck in the hunt and please keep us posted on how the search goes!


----------



## metalboss

Has anyone tried Abyss with Cord Dave... Someone is telling Dave has a good head amp builtin...


----------



## Beolab

I will try it out in 1,5 weeks time when i hopfully receive the DAVE. 

But i havent heard anyone who have tryed it yet, so i think im the first one maybe.


----------



## mulder01

From the Dave manual...

HEADPHONE OUTPUT: 
1% THD 6.8v RMS with 300 ohm (154 mW)
1% THD 6.8v RMS with 33 ohm (1.4W)


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> From the Dave manual...
> 
> HEADPHONE OUTPUT:
> 1% THD 6.8v RMS with 300 ohm (154 mW)
> 1% THD 6.8v RMS with 33 ohm (1.4W)




And 1 watt @ 46 Ohm 

Chord got some great current drive capability if i think about the Hugo, so maybe it could be a nice match when you just want to listen to the purest SQ possible by your system.


----------



## metalboss

Some dude at a store in Singapore said you gotta listen to it to believe it, he's so convinced that saying it's a game changer... too bad I was on a rush ain't got the time for a demo due to very busy travel schedule :-|


----------



## Kiats

I actually heard the LCD4 on the Chord Dave in a store in Singapore... And I thought it was underpowered for the LCD4... It made the LCD4 rather bright.


----------



## Rossliew

kiats said:


> I actually heard the LCD4 on the Chord Dave in a store in Singapore... And I thought it was underpowered for the LCD4... It made the LCD4 rather bright.




Which store might that be?


----------



## Kiats

rossliew said:


> Which store might that be?




AV One right next to Jaben on the ground floor. Just ask for Jeremy. You can say that I suggested you look for him.


----------



## Beolab

kiats said:


> I actually heard the LCD4 on the Chord Dave in a store in Singapore... And I thought it was underpowered for the LCD4... It made the LCD4 rather bright.




Yes the sound often gets a little thinner and sounds brighter when the amp are low on current amps and have a harder time to drive the Speakers / Headphones to their fully pontential. Then Chord Hugo/TT products are also on the neutral bright side, so maybe it wasn't the power that gave the brighter sound, it could also be the characteristic tone of the DAVE. 

I will test this a soon as i get my DAVE, hopefully by the end of next week.


----------



## Kiats

beolab said:


> Yes the sound often gets a little thinner and sounds brighter when the amp are low on current amps and have get a hard time to drive the Speakers / Headphones to their fully pontential.
> 
> I will test this a soon as i get my DAVE, hopefully buy the end of next week.




Thanks, Beolab. I was thinking that too. Of course, the entire chain usually matters as well.


----------



## Beolab

Superconductor CF 

Bought some carbon fibre sleeve with shrinking sleeve to the stock JPS Cable, looks very premium and High End. 

This should have bin standard from start

Will borrow the real SuperConductor HP cable during next week and see what happens.


----------



## Beolab

OT


Will also have a exclusive listening to the Orpheus II this Sunday 22 Feb. at our High End Event in Stockholm at Sheraton Hotell, and compare it to our beloved Abyss =) 

I think my setup are going to have greater pondus / Dynamic reserve, but you never know... 
It will most certainly have a different airy sound for certain. 

So if you want me to listen / try any special thing with them feel free to quote me. 





http://highendmassan.se/category/high-end-massan/page/2/


----------



## mulder01

I think you might be the first Abyss fan to hear the new Orpheus...
  
 I'm expecting it to be better in some aspects considering the 20 years of development and 50,000 euro price tag, but at a guess I'd say the abyss will still win on soundstage and bass.  And if it falls behind in those areas it would have to be _spectacularly_ good in other areas to justify the price tag... We'll see I suppose.


----------



## Beolab

Yes most likely, i try to imagine on how they sound, it will be very interesting. 

I will receive my 150h pre-burned in HeadTrip amp hopefully on Friday from Jeff at Wells Audio, so i got 1,5 days of listening to my rig before the Orpheus II session on Sunday. 

Will come back with a review / pictures and comparisson during next week.

I will pack a bag full of napkins just in case...


----------



## matthewhypolite

Quote: 





mulder01 said:


> Well, if a liquid gold was ever on your shortlist, you might be out of luck - Cavalli has just announced their next run of liquid golds will be the last ones ever...


 
  
 wow, really? do you have a link to this information? why will they be the last?


----------



## matthewhypolite

Late to the "post a random pic of your rig" party, lol, but here goes:


----------



## mulder01

matthewhypolite said:


> wow, really? do you have a link to this information? why will they be the last?


 

  
 I think they are just moving onto a new range of products.  
  
 This was from a thread started about a lifetime warranty and upgrade offer for liquid carbon customers, but I'm sure I saw it on the home page of head fi back when I posted that.
  
  
 Quote:


warrenpchi said:


> Well, at the end of the day, Cavalli Audio is a company of the community, by the community, and for the community.  And so, before our current line-up perishes from the earth, we will shortly be announcing *one FINAL run for each of our premium amps*.  This will be the very last time that our Liquid Crimson, Liquid Glass, Liquid Gold and Liquid Lightning amplifiers will be available… ever.  And, as part of this final run, we would like to extend to Carbon owners a very special discount.


 
  
 And it goes on to say that if you bought their liquid carbon for $599 when it was available that they'll give you $599 off any of their premium amps which means the carbon was essentially free and has a transferrable lifetime warranty which is pretty cool of them...  And awesome if you bought a liquid carbon...  Which I didn't


----------



## Kiats

Good chaps, Warren and Alex. And I absolutely love Alex's amps. I have his Liquid Lightning 2 and Liquid Gold. Incredible blend of transparency and musicality. I look forward to when Alex finally comes up with a powerful fully balanced tube amp. The last piece in my desk top rig.


----------



## Beolab

*Sennheiser Orpheus II vs JPS Labs Abyss AB-1266 first impressions and comparison:*

The day began with a text message from the Swedish Sennheiser sales manager that the schedule for the listening sessions at the Waterfront hotell is a closed session only for press journalists, and that they had 30 bookings of the day. 
So he was very uncertain if everyone could have a listening to the Orpheus II...⛈⛈

Next time is at the Munich HighEnd he said ;( 





But, it is a shame to the one who just give up , so i called some of my contacts and pulled some strings and manage to get the second last session with the Orpheus II . 

I had a listening to the Abyss with the SuperConductor HP cable at the High End fair Event one hour before the Orpheus II session, so i had the Abyss sound fresh in my memory when i entered the small Sennheiser room on the 4th floor in the Waterfront Hotell. 





I sat down in the sofa next to the phones and the Sennheiser Orpheus head developer/Designer gave me a small presentation about the build and spec of the huge gold coloured nano diaphragms (costs 3000 Euro each) and the small but powerful 780 volts power amps integrated in the headphones for zero resistant and loss in that short distance . It is like the amp are welded on to the driver almost. 
 ( I was forbidden to take any pictures on the parts he showed me) 

The diaphragms have more than twice the area of a normal dynamic headphone because it is a electrostatic type, you need bigger area if you want a to achieve a deep shivering bass and airy sound. 

The finishing was overall nice with the marble and the motoring door and tubes going up and down. But i think the headphones felt a little to plastic-light and a very similar to the HD600 / HD650 in the felling of the headband, but it got a nicer micro fibre / skinn clothing against the head. 

The Orpheus was connected to a T+A CD/SACD 3000 HV player with some 
Wire World XLR cables with Neutrik plugs. 




No fancy power filtering or anything like it where used. 

Listening & Comparison: 

The Sennheiser reference SACD sampler disc were inserted and out came the sound with the volume set to 12 o'clock = Medium High level. 



Tracks that was played: 

 1. Wolkenmeer - Beo Brockhausen
 2. No Sanctuary Here - Chris Jones
 3. When I Didn't Care - Sara K.
 4. Closer - Steve Strauss
 5. I Love Paris - The Bassface Swing Trio


The first thing that came to mind was the big warm and meaty Magna Planar sound !? 

The headphones did shiver and shake in the lower base notes in comparison to the dead silent Abyss. Here i think we need some dampening padding in the final version i said to the Sennheiser designer and he said that he had also head it, but it was hard to fix it. 

The sound spectra is from over your ears and down to your jaw very big, but not so big soundstage as i hade imagine. It plays and present the lead singer / instruments and choir very narrow my ears, so you do not get the feeling that it plays from a distance away. Good or bad is your own reference. But it got a bigger band sound than the Abyss, but not as clean bass or detailed in the upper mid / trable. 

Here both Abyss and HD800 are much cleaner and got a wider soundstadge. 

The Orpheus II sound where not so delicat or exclusive as the Abyss has, and i missed out the pitched black background, it was more some sort of distortion / noise hiss in the background. 


The bass is very deep and have a great impact, so this is the first electrostatic headphones with some balls as the designer / developer said
And he is true! 

But the control and the fine inner detail resolution, dept , bass quality , black background goes to the Abyss



Orpheus wins in the big band feeling. 

The Abyss was the best i had heard before, but i think Orpheus plays even more dynamic and you got a bigger sound but less controlled and precession. 

It doesn't ones get sharp or veil, it is very warm and lively, but misses the fine detail in the same way. 




So my conclution is: 
If the Abyss had a bigger diaphragm driver it will be on top of the Orpheus II from my listening perspective! 

I also think in the end, the Orpheus was a fun and very warm headphone with great drive to listening to, but the Abyss winns in the end with more control , fine detai and infra pure controlled bass. 
The Abyss sounds more like a labratory testing instrument in comparison to the Orpheus II, who sounds more like a heavy tuned HD650 on steroids, with a warm livley sound, but does not got the last in control over the diaphragm, and does not sound electrostatic, more like hybrid btw magna planar / Electrostatic. 

It could also be that the Orpheus II pre amp stage who got tubes that gives the noisier background and warmer than normal sound sound i think. 

So i did find the headphones more warm and playfull, but i would not pay the acclaimed 55.000 Euro price tag, it is the headphones that is the nice pearl, but you cant drive them with any other amp or buy the headphones separatly, so you have to buy the hole set. 

So in the end i keep my Abyss with a good amp as a winner, because the sound is better overal. 

It was great fun to hear this very rare and special headphone nevertheless !

(Im laying in bed with 39 celsius on the thermometer , so im sorry for my English)


----------



## Yoga

Thanks for the report - very lucky to have heard them, and a great result for the Abyss!


----------



## mulder01

Pretty happy to hear this headphone is possibly not an abyss killer... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Even at _ten times_ the money...
  
 Over in the Orpheus thread a modded HE-6 owner mentioned that he preferred his HE-6 (from a 15 minute audition).  I suppose planars are just a different flavour to electrostats though...


----------



## Beolab

Thanks allot for all warming Reputations you have gave me ! 

I tried to just wright my comparison review based on exact what I heard, no favour for any of the Headphones was put in.


----------



## Beolab

Wells Audio HeadTrip hand made, only Nr 32 made. ;

Have been listening for 4 houer stright, and i have to just take my hat off Abyss + HeadTrip + Chord Mojo is a killer combo! 

Waiting for my DAVE during the week, so the Mojo does it jobb like a champ, until his big brother comes home  

It is like you are inside the music, with visceral deep bass, 3D, richness, details, timing and dryness, very well articulated. 

 It is are over the top! 

The Orpheus had more quantity bass and bigger bass because of the bigger area of the diaphragms, but not better quality. 
 In all other areas the Abyss + HeadTrip combo wins easiness. 

Im so happy with the sound! 

Now when the amp can deliver loads of power the Abyss are tripping on their toes now, and are fast and responsive, everything is presented with an ease and got very much air around the notes. 



Highly recommended combo and Orpheus II killer setup


----------



## mulder01

beolab said:


> It is like you are inside the music, with visceral deep bass, 3D, richness, details, timing and dryness, it is are over the top!


 
  
 That good hey?  Do you think you will sell the Enigma and upgrade to the Head Trip?
  
 Is that a big hole in the back?  Looks like you could put your finger in there and touch the incoming AC...


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> That good hey?  Do you think you will sell the Enigma and upgrade to the Head Trip?
> 
> Is that a big hole in the back?  Looks like you could put your finger in there and touch the incoming AC...




It is already a HeadTrip if you just polish your glasses a little 






The hole is for future upgrade purpose. 
External power supply i have bin told.


----------



## mulder01

Didn't you say you bought an enigma a couple of weeks ago?
  
 I thought you were just borrowing the headtrip and dave?  Or did you buy your own?
  
 ---
  
 Seems like the hole should have some sort of blank cover over it though...


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> Didn't you say you bought an enigma a couple of weeks ago?
> 
> I thought you were just borrowing the headtrip and dave?  Or did you buy your own?
> 
> ...




I dont think i said, that i have baught a Enigma ??  



I have bought the HeadTrip and Dave + Abyss from my own hard earned money 


But i can almost loan every other product brand, but not Wells Audio or Chord DAVE.


----------



## Beolab

The last brick in the puzzle have finally arrived! =)


----------



## potkettleblack

*Question for experienced AB-1266 users.*

I have spoken to quite a few of you in private and have had some very helpful, in depth responses (none of which will be forgotten).

Tuesday is the day I audition the AB-1266.

I have my new laptop and new amp/dac - the Ifi idsd Micro. This was suggested to me by Joe and has even made a user on this thread contemplate selling his desktop setup - it's that good. 

My question is about the seal preference of current owners.

Hear me out...

I know the general consensus is for the seal to be just touching the outside of my ear - but my question is what kind of seal is preferred by you guys. As an example: loose seal with an opening at the front. Loose seal with an opening at the back. Loose with the whole earpad touching, and all the other possibilities available.

I understand minor fit changes can make a huge difference - but one thing I really want to hear is the bass capabilities of the AB, and I'm sure there is a setting that can showcase that.

Thanks in advance, and thanks to those that have helped me so far.

P.S - if any of you have any (holy s***) tracks they think I should hear - by all means throw them at me now and I'll be sure to get them ready and waiting for Tuesday.

Wish me luck.

Regards,

Lee.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

potkettleblack said:


> *Question for experienced AB-1266 users.*
> 
> I have spoken to quite a few of you in private and have had some very helpful, in depth responses (none of which will be forgotten).
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Good luck at the audition!! 
  
 For me, the best is a seal all around.  The pads don't fit intuitively on your (my head).  What I mean is the way I thought the pads should go ended up being totally wrong.  What I did at the beginning was I put the Abyss on, grabbed the top cross bar and rotated it front to back to see what felt best (I should also point out that I had the luxury of doing this in private).  
  
 What can also work (and what I later did) was take off the ear pads and in front of a mirror held them to my head and rotated them until the side that attaches to the Abyss was the flattest (if that makes any sense).
  
 As for tracks I really like Doug MacLeod's There's a Time album.  I know it doesn't have thunderous bass or anything but it is a really well recorded, honest sound album.  Because it was so well recorded you get a lot of cues of his foot hitting the floor and the sound echoing around that easily lost on lesser systems.  Many talk about the great bass that the Abyss has, and they certainly have that, but they also have excellent air and space and something like this really shows that off.
  
 Have fun!


----------



## Beolab

I have a medium/bigger sized head, so i have my abyss on almost the widest setting, and then the pads with the stitching at 3 o'clock straight forward, because you loose bass if you have them at 2 o'clock ( = closed seal ) 
and the sound get more opened up with more air and they bread better. 

So you should have a small air gap underneath your ears for optimum performance and max bass, and slight toed in headband. 

(I have tried all settings possible) 

The best music album at the moment with rich bass and dynamics with great recordings:

Malia 

Yello have produced this album together with Malia 

Listen in TIDAL to - Malia: Convergence http://tidal.com/album/25029817

And 

Musica Nuda ( Live ) with Petra Magoni 
Great dynamic raw album 
Musica Nuda: Musica Nuda - Live à FIP http://tidal.com/album/4523608


----------



## potkettleblack

Great thank you


----------



## HighNFidelity

I rotate the cups and angle the drivers to accommodate the structural contours of my ears with the width of the headphone pads NOT touching the sides of my head by just around or under a quarter inch. I find this fit to provide the best bass and spacial response for my music needs. You should first try several varying paralleled cup/pad rotations (such as suggested above) before settling on the degrees of the cup/pads that suit your form/contours. Then adjust driver angle and structural width to accommodate your personal audio preferences as well as comfort. I should also add that for myself, the position of the rubber head band and/or height positioning of the Abyss is a moot point since I listen laying back on an ergonomically sound memory pillow.
One of my favorite Abyss bass wow tracks is:
Artist: Mickey Hart
Album: Planet Drum
Track: Temple Caves
Medium: 24 Karat Au 20 Disc


----------



## Beolab

Did a small impression writeup on the 
Wells Audio HeadTrip who is probably the best amp today, for our beloved Abyss cans

Read my findings and review here: 

Scroll down to the end of the thread: 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/775550/wells-audio-headtrip-amp/0_50#post_12375755


----------



## ufospls2

These cans just keep wowing me. 
  
 I've found that the problem with distortion is not my amp, its not my dac, its not the headphones, its my usb outs in my computer. For whatever reason they (the usb ports) make louder low end stuff distort (which I'm working on trouble shooting.) Using these cans with another computer, WOW. 
  
 Everyday I get the fit a little more dialed in and the better the fit, the better the sound. I have them very lightly touching my ears right now, and they are very comfortable. I didn't realize how long it would take to slowly get used to the way the Abyss fit, and how the sound signature would change relating to that fit. I'm sure I still have little tweaks here and there to do, but slowly I am getting there. 
  
 I can't wait to hear the LCD-4 soon to see what they are like compared to the Abyss.


----------



## potkettleblack

*Public thank you to those that have sent private messages regarding their fit preference for the AB-1266*

Much appreciated.


----------



## aphex27

potkettleblack said:


> *Question for experienced AB-1266 users.*
> 
> I have spoken to quite a few of you in private and have had some very helpful, in depth responses (none of which will be forgotten).
> 
> ...


 

 Loose seal with opening at the front.
 Holy s### track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BG2076Gz8Y
 (it's on much better quality at Tidal)


----------



## mulder01

ufospls2 said:


> I can't wait to hear the LCD-4 soon to see what they are like compared to the Abyss.


 
  
 I was thinking the same thing.  But I have to admit I've been a bit put-off by Audeze recently - especially after I found the "How Many Times Have Your LCD3 Headphones Been Returned to Audeze for Servicing" thread and found out that Audeze's success rate with making headphones that don't break was LESS THAN HALF.  I mean, I heard they had a lot of failures, but I thought "a lot" of failures meant 1 in 10 or something - that's "a lot" to me.  But click http://www.head-fi.org/t/771760/how-many-times-have-your-lcd3-headphones-been-returned-to-audeze-for-servicing-rma then click "view results" and the percentage of people who have had no issues seems to be 42% at the moment, and 10% of people have had THREE OR MORE failures.  And when potkettleblack said that his local dealer had sold 2 pairs of LCD-4 and had one for demo, but ALL THREE pairs have failed, it makes me think the LCD-4's are going to have the same reliability issues as the 3's...  Combine that with some pretty ordinary customer service - some members waiting months to get their headphones back, and days for a simple email response (if they get a response at all), and the prospect of LCD ownership now seems somewhat less appealing to me...
  
 And I'm thinking this might be a good time to mention, for anyone who's interested - I have a quick story about my dealings with JPS from a little while back, just for a bit of contrast:
  
 I know the majority of Abyss owners are mostly interested in the best possible desktop performance rig regardless of price, but anyone who's been following this thread for a long time will know that I have been interested in an ideal portable solution for the Abyss.  Maybe 6 months to a year ago, I got my hands on a used ALO Rx Mk3b+ amp which can run the Abyss (just) but only puts out enough power in balanced mode, (not single ended) and it uses an RSA 4 pin balanced output.  I looked around a few cable companies for adapters from RSA to full sized XLR and it seems like it's a very uncommon cable and a custom order from just about everywhere.  After I discovered this, I also wondered if using a different type/brand of cable (other than the Abyss cable) for an adapter would colour the sound.  (Yes, I know this may be up for debate, but this isn't the point of the story).  So I contacted Joe directly, and asked him if he could make me an adapter.  The going rate for the same sort of  thing from other premium cable manufacturers was about $200-$300ish.  I was a little hesitant to ask, because I didn't even know if it was going to sound any good, and I only paid $400 for the amp used.  I assumed he would probably charge around the $300 mark all up which seems expensive, but when you buy a premium product, you have to accept the reality that parts and accessories will also carry premium pricing - a fair while ago I met someone who had just bought an Aston Martin and he said that one of the extras was floor mats (2x floor mats because it's a 2 - seater).  $2000 for genuine Aston Martin floor mats.  I suppose if you're going to buy a premium product like an Aston Martin or an Abyss, that's just something you have to accept.  So anyway, back to the story.  I bit the bullet and asked Joe to make me an adapter.  He said he'll make me one, but doesn't have an RSA balanced plug so he would have to order one in and make it up, and when I asked him how much it would be, he said it was 'on the house'.  He specifically ordered a connector, made up the thing with Abyss cable and posted it to Australia at his expense and didn't charge me a cent.  This was also around the time when people were talking a lot on this thread about getting a comfortable fit and I mentioned a few times that I get a sore spot directly on top of my head.  I'm assuming Joe was reading the comments on the forum at the time and must have assumed the elastic on mine might have loosened or something and the adjustment screw was resting on my head? maybe? because just before he mailed the adapter, he said that since he was already sending out the cable, he would throw in a new headband to see if that fixed my problem.  Again, for free, but I didn't even have to ask - he had just read my comments in the forum and thought it might help with the comfort level.  TBH, I've _never_ experienced after-sales service like that in my life.  I am the sort of person who likes to pay credit where credit's due, but didn't say anything on the forum at the time because I didn't want to start up something where everyone starts messaging Joe asking for free ****...  
  
 So now when I browse through various Audeze threads, and read about other people's experiences dealing with them and compare it to what I got from JPS I can't help but think, even if the LCD-4 sounds just as good, I feel a lot more comfortable owning a pair of Abyss than I do about owning a pair of Audeze's and have recently become a fair bit less interested in how they sound knowing in the back of my mind that the next time I put them on they may not work... Which sounds like an exaggeration but sadly it doesn't look that way.


----------



## cladane

Hello here,
  
 I was pleased to read the very interesting comment from @Beolab about the HeadTrip powering the Abyss.
  
 Like I exposed it into the Orpheus thread I would suggest another optimal setup built around the VIVA Egoista 845 tubes amp and the TotalDAC R2R DAC Integral including a Cubox sever (LMS and Roon compatible).


----------



## Beolab

Cant´t see what could go wrong with the Abyss, because they are CNC milled out of an aluminium block and rock solid! =)
  
 Just the headband that could be a factor in the long term..


----------



## Kiats

beolab said:


> Cant´t see what could go wrong with the Abyss, because they are CNC milled out of an aluminium block and rock solid! =)
> 
> Just the headband that could be a factor in the long term..


 
  
 Agreed. The Abyss is made to last.


----------



## potkettleblack

I'm gonna struggle to put this into words, but I'll try.

I'm sat on the train coming back from the headphone shop I've been planning to go to for months. 

The first half of the day I auditioned the LCD 4, HD800S, SR009 and the L700.

The plan was to go there to audition the Abyss, after getting the amp suggested to me by Joe and having the frame of mind to be willing to adjust the headphone as much as necessary to hear all of the signatures it was capable of.

I put it off for 3-4 hours. I kept looking over at them thinking 'what if you aren't what I'm hoping you're gonna be. What if you only sound good with one type of music.'

Eventually I took them into a smaller listening room, a long with my amp and my MacBook, and the expectation of disappointment. My heart was set on the L700, after hearing it, and picking something to compliment it - like the Audeze LCD X.

I sat down, plugged them in and extended them as wide as they could go and tilted them forward a little.

Now.. I want to start firing off... 

I want to start putting emoticon headphone faces after every descriptive sentence I can muster... I want to shake the shoulders of all those who didn't give this headphone a second glance or chance (myself included).

But I won't.

So I'll just say this:

1. I didn't leave the room for an hour - even though I needed the toilet just before I went in there.
2. They were the best headphone in the whole shop and the best headphone I have ever heard - and the margins werent close.
3 The bass (when properly adjusted) trumps everything I've ever heard - again, the margins not being close. The bass is extra-ordinary.
4. I ordered and paid for them, spending all of my saved budget almost immediately after I'd finished listening. There was no second thought, no 'erms' or 'I'm not sures'.

Today was a good day.

I hoped it was gonna go like this but if I'm honest I thought the odds were terrible.. 

And I was wrong. Very, very wrong.

Honourable mention:

The L700 is a lovely headphone that I would still own (for its signature) but on a whole doesn't hold a light to the AB-1266 - nor do the rest of the offerings in my opinion.


----------



## bfreedma

^^^
Can you be more specific? I can't tell from your post how you feel about the Abyss.....


Congrats on the purchase and finding something you liked so much!


----------



## negura

potkettleblack said:


>


 
  
 So the LCD-4 not close then? Can you elaborate a bit? The HD800S or SR-009s are a completely different sound imo.
  


bfreedma said:


> ^^^
> Can you be more specific? I can't tell from your post how you feel about the Abyss.....
> 
> 
> Congrats on the purchase and finding something you liked so much!


 
  
 +1


----------



## Torq

potkettleblack said:


> I'm gonna struggle to put this into words, but I'll try.
> 
> I'm sat on the train coming back from the headphone shop I've been planning to go to for months.
> 
> ...


 

 Congratulations!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 After my initial audition I had found an issue with bass not being nearly as prominent as I'd read and been told (with a solid seal) and with significant bass-distortion (driver rattling) without a seal, that had me holding off on my purchase.
  
 Chatting with my dealer (The Cable Co.) and JPS-Labs indicated this was likely an issue with the loaner set I had to audition.
  
 Since there was a 30-day return period, and my dealer had them in stock, I decided to try another pair and, lo-and-behold, no issues at all!  Shipped them overnight, received them half an hour ago and the bass I was expecting is there, there's none of the very-obvious distortion, and they sound absolutely magnificent!
  
 More impressions when they're run in, but I'm glad I gave them a second chance because there is a huge difference between what I auditioned and what I have on my head right now!


----------



## bfreedma

negura said:


> So the LCD-4 not close then? Can you elaborate a bit? The HD800S or SR-009s are a completely different sound imo.
> 
> 
> +1


 
  
 I'm interested in hearing a bit more on the LCD4/Abyss comparison as well.  PotKettleBlack, when you come up for air after some time enjoying your new headphones, can you comment?


----------



## potkettleblack

negura said:


> So the LCD-4 not close then? Can you elaborate a bit? The HD800S or SR-009s are a completely different sound imo.
> 
> 
> +1




You're right.

To begin I'll say that the HD800S is a better offering than the HD800 and anyone that's considering the latter should seriously hear the former first.

It would take quite a while to break down everything so I'll try and simplify it and try my hardest to avoid the typical audiophile mantras.

Classical music for me had a better sense of being there (that's the first cliche) with the abyss above all of the others. Whilst I thought and think the imaging of the HD800 is great this was something the LCD 4 really shocked me on. I found it much more natural than the HD800S. But, the presentation was better on the Abyss and the sense of space it gave me bested all others to my ears. The 'speaker sound' (that's the second cliche) couldn't be more true. These things sound like speakers and the HD800S doesn't - neither does the LCD 4 (at all) but I would pick the LCD4 offering - if it were the 'headphone sound and not speaker sound' I wanted, over the HD800S. Which is NOT what I expected. 

(This is something the LCD 4 deserves more credit for)

The bass on the HD800S was a great improvement - subtle but the small increase in warmth (across the board) brought out a lot of what the HD800 was always capable of but never managed.

The bass on the LCD4 is an extremely thick sound, but controlled, lush and not really exaggerated. In isolation it was one of the best... But listening to the Abyss afterwards, dwarfed the impact, precision and visceral feeling the Audeze LCD4 lacked. The Abyss was in another league imo. Please take that sentence seriously - I have some monster tracks for testing bass (specifically for drum and bass and EDM ish genres).

(Dazed and confused [Led Zepplin] is another test track I use for bass)

And the Abyss took the gold for that too..

Here's where it gets interesting.

I found the midrange of the LCD4 to be way too 'in your face'. 

The vocals, although clear, were almost offensive. They barged the other merits of the music out the way and acted like an unwanted attention whore. Now before you say - this was not immediately after I'd heard the Abyss. It was one of the first headphones I heard (the dealer let me unbox them [theyre a demo pair that were delivered just an hour after I'd arrived]) and I' had been listening to my shure 846 on the journey - so it's not like id gone from something withdrawn to that, and was taken off guard.

As a comparison I thought the LCD 3 midrange was tuned better - though the LCD4 is technically superior in all other regards - both enjoyment and 'Hifi level' - it was just too 'forced' and mid centric.

Now. The midrange of the Abyss. Something I was expecting to bite me in the arse.

When I first auditioned the Abyss is was on very low volume with an o2 and for a very short time. I thought they sounded empty, vacant and I was not impressed.

After today I would pick the Abyss midrange over the LCD4 - and I'm being dead serious. I didnt find them hollow or withdrawn, at all... but pretty spectacular. 

I got on the balls of my feet and braced myself when I hit the play button for an Eva Cassidy song I had prepped for this test. I was very suprised with the result. The space was filled, the turkey was stuffed and shoebox had my high heels in it...

(I don't wear high heels - I was making a funny)

But seriously - or 'cereal flakes' as the unfunny Bob Katz once said on an Innerfidelity video - they sounded really, really great with vocals. I was very impressed and relieved.

I'm a critical, negative kinda fella - if there was a problem here I would say. I promise.

On a side note: 

I found it crazy that the slightest adjustment with the Abyss changed the treble, bass and midrange, sometimes by quite a lot.


----------



## potkettleblack

The Stax were another good comparison.

Arguably more 'nimble sounding' 

With certain instruments I was hard-pressed over saying they were better than the Abyss really in any way.

Speed? Are they faster than the abyss?

When you hear a guitar you could make the case (although small) for the Stax.. But the Abyss sounded wonderful with guitars too and it had its own take on the way they should sound.
With acoustic music I don't know if being just 'nimble' carries the performance through to the end. 

I want some rump steak on those strum notes please.

When you hear the explosive sound of a snare or the transition from one beat to another (on the Abyss) - you start to question how you even gauged 'speed' in the first place.

The Stax were like inoffensive raindrops on your bedroom window - the Abyss was like erecting scaffolding in a thunder storm.

Both scenarios made you feel like you were there in person.

The Stax were spectacular in their own right - but the Abyss again would be my choice (if I only had one).


----------



## nassq8

> 4. I ordered and paid for them, spending all of my saved budget almost immediately after I'd finished listening. There was no second thought, no 'erms' or 'I'm not sures'


 
  Congrats on your purchase, glad you found it as expected.
   
 Quote:


> I decided to try another pair and, lo-and-behold, no issues at all!


 
 Well, this is not reassuring for a potential customer, as I'm on a verge of buying one. Does Abyss also suffer a production variability as one found in other high-end headphones (such as LCD3)?


----------



## Torq

nassq8 said:


> Congrats on your purchase, glad you found it as expected.
> Well, this is not reassuring for a potential customer, as I'm on a verge of buying one. Does Abyss also suffer a production variability as one found in other high-end headphones (such as LCD3)?


 

 This wasn't a production variation.
  
 The pair I had on audition/loan were from The Cable Co's "Headphone Lending Library" and, consequently, are shipped around to a lot of different users, on a trial basis (5% deposit).  Who knows how well they're taken care of by some users of that program.  The issue was obvious if you heard it, but it you ran the headphones with a seal you'd never hear it, and even then only when playing *very* bass heavy tracks.  Between The Cable Co and JPS it was determined they'd developed a fault.  I was offered a re-trial at no cost and both parties were extremely helpful.
  
 I decided not to wait for another trial and buy based on what I'd heard already - knowing I could return them if it turned out it wasn't a fault.  But clearly it was, as the set I have on my head right now are even more impressive than the already-impressive-but-faulty-loaners.
  
 I've never heard of any other issue with any other pair of Abyss, nor had The Cable Co run into this issue before.  I expect it's a one-off due to shipping damage or misuse somewhere in their life.


----------



## xp9433

potkettleblack said:


> ... The plan was to go there to audition the Abyss, after getting the amp suggested to me by Joe and having the frame of mind to be willing to adjust the headphone as much as necessary to hear all of the signatures it was capable of.
> 
> ... Eventually I took them into a smaller listening room, a long with my amp and my MacBook, and the expectation of disappointment. My heart was set on the L700, after hearing it, and picking something to compliment it - like the Audeze LCD X.


 
  
*potkettleblack*
 In the photo, you are using the iDSD Micro DAC/Amp (which I also own). Are all your comments based on using this amp or other amps as well?
 I ask because I would have thought that a very modestly priced amp like the iDSD Micro was not necessarily capable of achieving the ultimate in SQ (a potential mismatch?) with some of the HPs auditioned.
 However, as I have never tried my Micro with any of these HPs, I welcome your further comments.
 Did you listen to HPs with other amps in the photo and compare to your Micro?
  
 Thanks
 Frank


----------



## potkettleblack

xp9433 said:


> *potkettleblack*
> In the photo, you are using the iDSD Micro DAC/Amp (which I also own). Are all your comments based on using this amp or other amps as well?
> I ask because I would have thought that a very modestly priced amp like the iDSD Micro was not necessarily capable of achieving the ultimate in SQ (a potential mismatch?) with some of the HPs auditioned.
> However, as I have never tried my Micro with any of these HPs, I welcome your further comments.
> ...




I heard them with the Chord Dave and the Ifi

The Ifi idsd micro is an absolute little bulldog when it comes to the synergy and the way they drive the AB-1266. 

Be reminded that this little wipper snapper of an amp was suggested to me by the owner of JPS Labs.

The guy that owns the shop has everything the world has to offer when it comes to headphones (minus the r10, Orpheus and float) and his reaction to the pairing was -

'God. That sounds epic.'

(Medium setting (red switch)
Lowest sensitivity setting 
X bass and 3D setting not selected)


----------



## xp9433

*potkettleblack*
  
 Thanks. That's highly encouraging news. Perhaps my Micro will stay durng any system upgrade plan.
 Sounds like it is a very synergistic fit with the Abyss. And I was assuming that acquisition of a $5K HP would also need $5K+ invested in a DAC/Amp
  
 Cheers
 Frank


----------



## potkettleblack

xp9433 said:


> *potkettleblack*
> 
> Thanks. That's highly encouraging news. Perhaps my Micro will stay durng any system upgrade plan.
> Sounds like it is a very synergistic fit with the Abyss. And I was assuming that acquisition of a $5K HP would also need $5K+ invested in a DAC/Amp
> ...


For the respect of the other users on this thread - I will simply say - not for me dear fellow.

Today is the closest ever come to feeling like I'd won the audiophile jackpot.

The cavalli gold would probably extend that feeling more - but id be very interested to see by how much because next to the Dave the Ifi more than held its own.


----------



## ufospls2

potkettleblack said:


> For the respect of the other users on this thread - I will simply say - not for me dear fellow.
> 
> Today is the closest ever come to feeling like I'd won the audiophile jackpot.
> 
> The cavalli gold would probably extend that feeling more - but id be very interested to see by how much because next to the Dave the Ifi more than held its own.


 
 So glad to hear you found the Abyss to be what you hoped they would be. I know what you mean when you say you feel like you won the audiophile jackpot. For the first time in my life, I don't have an upgrade itch, I'm very happy with the Abyss. Sure I could make tweaks here and there and improve my set up, but in the headphone department, I'm set. I would like to audition the LCD-4 as I like to have two pairs of headphones on hand, for sake of variety and in case something goes wrong with a pair and it has to be sent off for repair. I sold all my other pairs of headphones to acquire the Abyss, and it was one of the best headphone related decisions I have ever made. VS the HE1000, it is a no brainer. 
  
 That is cool that the Abyss works so well with your little amp. I spend a lot of time in the basement of my house away from my main set up which is in my bedroom, and I use the LH Labs Geek Out V2 with the Abyss, and it is awesome! It was very lack lustre when driven in single ended mode, but once I got an adapter to run them balanced from it, they really do well considering it is such a small device. Obviously it is not as good as my big set up, but it shows the Abyss can be run from something smaller, and still do really well.


----------



## potkettleblack

ufospls2 said:


> So glad to hear you found the Abyss to be what you hoped they would be. I know what you mean when you say you feel like you won the audiophile jackpot. For the first time in my life, I don't have an upgrade itch, I'm very happy with the Abyss. Sure I could make tweaks here and there and improve my set up, but in the headphone department, I'm set. I would like to audition the LCD-4 as I like to have two pairs of headphones on hand, for sake of variety and in case something goes wrong with a pair and it has to be sent off for repair. I sold all my other pairs of headphones to acquire the Abyss, and it was one of the best headphone related decisions I have ever made. VS the HE1000, it is a no brainer.
> 
> That is cool that the Abyss works so well with your little amp. I spend a lot of time in the basement of my house away from my main set up which is in my bedroom, and I use the LH Labs Geek Out V2 with the Abyss, and it is awesome! It was very lack lustre when driven in single ended mode, but once I got an adapter to run them balanced from it, they really do well considering it is such a small device. Obviously it is not as good as my big set up, but it shows the Abyss can be run from something smaller, and still do really well.


The HE1000 was well in the running today until I heard the Abyss. The Abyss is to me is what the HE1000 is to the LCD 3 - just different leagues.
The best thing for me that would compliment it was the L700 which for the price is absolutely remarkable.


----------



## negura

potkettleblack said:


> The HE1000 was well in the running today until I heard the Abyss. The Abyss is to me is what the HE1000 is to the LCD 3 - just different leagues.
> The best thing for me that would compliment it was the L700 which for the price is absolutely remarkable.


 
  
 I agree about the Abyss being a different league to those, but I do not really rate the HEK above the LCD-3 in SQ. Ok the cherry picked HEK might be a bit better, but that's until we start talking about Audeze sample variance. Ok, forget it. )


----------



## up late

this is the abyss thread so it's understandable that there's a lot of love for it here. i like it too but to say that it's in another league compared to the he1000 is over the top imho. i thought they were comparable sonically at least.


----------



## potkettleblack

up late said:


> this is the abyss thread so it's understandable that there's a lot of love for it here. i like it too but to say that it's in another league compared to the he1000 is over the top imho.


Thats cool mate. I have a lot of love for the he1000 - but I feel the SR007/009/L700 and Abyss are playing in their own championship and the he1000 is in limbo between them and the HD800.


----------



## negura

I own neither the Abyss nor the HEK, so I have no horse in this game. I have very significant exposure to both on my own rig, with multiple samples of both. Why I did not buy either of them - different reasons.
  
 I can summarize at this:
 - I rather think of HEK quite poorly when it comes to SQ or build quality. The asymmetric magnets and driver choice are not great for sound quality: soft sound, terrible wall of bass, coloured response, somewhat pleasing sound, but not summit fi level. Build quality is quite poor. There is significant sample variance as heard personally using around 8-9 pairs (one or two were a bit better, more focused sounding than the rest). I would never consider buying the HEK as is. Asking price is way off considering.
 - my issues with the Abyss: grainy, cannot resolve some sub-bass and start rolling off audibly down low on resolving gear, mids are not amongst the very best, treble response could be better (not unusual with planar headphones). That said, the Abyss do very well in clarity, imaging, soundstage, visceral impact, probably the best amongst planars. This is what puts them well ahead of HEK. I used to bash the Abyss on their visually challenging build, but the way they can be adjusted is actually quite useful. That semi-seal could work greatly with other headphones too. Asking price is also off imo for what they sound like, all hype aside. 
  
 And no neither of these even remotely sound like speakers. They can't. All imo.


----------



## up late

happy to agree to disagree as i don't have a dog in this fight either


----------



## potkettleblack

Easy there, lotus flower

I understand why you'd be literal with what I said but this reaction started before this particular experience for me. The first song I ever heard on the Abyss was billy Jean quite a while back and my first, unprompted thought was - 'they have a real speaker like quality to them' - I've reworded it to be polite.
I haven't heard a headphone that has caused that since.
The owner of the shop did take me upstairs to listen to some kickass pmc speakers this afternoon after I'd heard the Abyss and decided to buy and I must say..
The Abyss sounded a lot better.

But you're right - headphones ultimately cant mimic speakers unless they're speakers.


----------



## up late

i was replying to negura. it's really no skin off my nose - honest.


----------



## negura

potkettleblack said:


>


 
  
 The HEK thread is full of this cliche. I did think whether I should add a disclaimer, of how I can understand how people think of such and such... but this ultimately useless. People who heard it know it.


----------



## up late

not sure what you mean by that but anyways. we're just sharing divergent opinions about headphones - nothing unusual about that.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Even though it was designed to mimic the sound of my well-tuned 2 channel system in an acoustically excellent room, I agree the AB-1266 should not sound like most any loudspeakers in any room.

In order to do so, we would need to place passive crossover components in-line to mimic the phase shifts and impedance swings that occur throughout the frequency range. We would then need to add dissimilar materials to the diaphragm in order to reproduce how say the tweeter materials resonate compared to the mid and bass drivers', in essence reduce coherence. Add some cabinet resonances at various frequencies, tens of feet of wire inside, and let's not forget the sound of the room itself, digitally add in all those bass modes below ~100 Hz and frequency dependent reflections above, sauce for the goose.

Then, and only then, could you truly say that the Abyss sounds like a pair of speakers...


----------



## Kiats

joe skubinski said:


> Even though it was designed to mimic the sound of my well-tuned 2 channel system in an acoustically excellent room, I agree the AB-1266 should not sound like most any loudspeakers in any room.
> 
> In order to do so, we would need to place passive crossover components in-line to mimic the phase shifts and impedance swings that occur throughout the frequency range. We would then need to add dissimilar materials to the diaphragm in order to reproduce how say the tweeter materials resonate compared to the mid and bass drivers', in essence reduce coherence. Add some cabinet resonances at various frequencies, tens of feet of wire inside, and let's not forget the sound of the room itself, digitally add in all those bass modes below ~100 Hz and frequency dependent reflections above, sauce for the goose.
> 
> Then, and only then, could you truly say that the Abyss sounds like a pair of speakers...




That sounds like a good next project, Joe?


----------



## nassq8

joe skubinski said:


> Even though it was designed to mimic the sound of my well-tuned 2 channel system in an acoustically excellent room, I agree the AB-1266 should not sound like most any loudspeakers in any room.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


And that can be done digitally through a kind of high quality audio processing, such as SVS. For example, using a linear and fast HP (such as 009), mimicking speakers with Realiser A8 is freaking unbelievable.


----------



## mulder01

xp9433 said:


> *potkettleblack*
> 
> Thanks. That's highly encouraging news. Perhaps my Micro will stay durng any system upgrade plan.
> Sounds like it is a very synergistic fit with the Abyss. And I was assuming that acquisition of a $5K HP would also need $5K+ invested in a DAC/Amp
> ...


 
  
 I can second his experience Frank - I think the Abyss does exceedingly well off reasonably priced gear.  I'm sure top tier amps add another notch to the performance, but you can still enjoy the crap out of an Abyss without spending a fortune on upstream gear.
  


potkettleblack said:


> The HE1000 was well in the running today until I heard the Abyss. The Abyss is to me is what the HE1000 is to the LCD 3 - just different leagues.


 
  
 +1 - I thought the HEK was a bit of a poor man's Abyss.  Though I have been told by someone who converted from Abyss to HEK that the HEK is more of an amp and cable snob and isn't great off more entry level gear and stock cables.  He had a silver spore 4 cable and Woo WA234 and preferred the HEK but I suppose it depends how far you're willing to go with the rest of your setup.  I suppose that's just one man's opinion too...


----------



## preproman

negura said:


> I own neither the Abyss nor the HEK, so I have no horse in this game. I have very significant exposure to both on my own rig, with multiple samples of both. Why I did not buy either of them - different reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Well,  I guess I would have to say I agree more with this post compared to many others here, being a previous owner of the Abyss that is.


----------



## bacon333

beolab said:


> What are the sound advantages you get with this cable against the stock Abyss cable ?
> 
> What is your impressions?


 
 If you're curious, here are my impressions:
 https://audiobacon.net/2016/02/22/headphone-cable-review-jps-superconductor-hp-cable-vs-stock-abyss-cable/
  
Overall, I gravitated towards the JPS Superconductor HP cables during most of my listening. It’s the more cohesive, organic, effortless, well-controlled, and addictive listening experience. The SC brings the stock from a slightly grainier and “digital” presentation to a smooth, analog sounding one. It’s the difference between listening to a recording and a live performance. It works better for most genres of music and I think it’s a fantastic upgrade over the stock as long as you’re OK with the caveats mentioned in the post. I see merits for both and there are going to be some that prefer one cable over the other. When two components sound good, it almost comes down to taste. I could see myself keeping both for my various listening preferences. However, if I were to pick one, it would undoubtedly be the JPS Superconductor HP cable. They have a very relaxed presentation that is difficult to describe in that they do not lack much detail, extension, or dynamics, but there is just something about them that is involving and easy to listen to. If it weren’t for the lack of shimmer, and shine to the higher frequencies, the SC is a no-brainer. You really don’t know how good this cable is until you hear it.


----------



## Beolab

bacon333 said:


> If you're curious, here are my impressions:
> https://audiobacon.net/2016/02/22/headphone-cable-review-jps-superconductor-hp-cable-vs-stock-abyss-cable/
> 
> [COLOR=000000]Overall, I gravitated towards the JPS Superconductor HP cables during most of my listening. It’s the more cohesive, organic, effortless, well-controlled, and addictive listening experience. The SC brings the stock from a slightly grainier and “digital” presentation to a smooth, analog sounding one. It’s the difference between listening to a recording and a live performance. It works better for most genres of music and I think it’s a fantastic upgrade over the stock as long as you’re OK with the caveats mentioned in the post. I see merits for both and there are going to be some that prefer one cable over the other. When two components sound good, it almost comes down to taste. I could see myself keeping both for my various listening preferences. However, if I were to pick one, it would undoubtedly be the JPS Superconductor HP cable. They have a very relaxed presentation that is difficult to describe in that they do not lack much detail, extension, or dynamics, but there is just something about them that is involving and easy to listen to. If it weren’t for the lack of shimmer, and shine to the higher frequencies, the SC is a no-brainer. You really don’t know how good this cable is until you hear it.[/COLOR]




What a great and fun to read review you have put together! Relay nice! 

Im waiting for a SC loaner so i have just heard it briefly at the High End show here i Scandinavia pre last weekend. 

And from my very short listening session i heard that it did sound more analog, and the soundstage where more concentrated in the center like flashlight bulb vs the stock that is as you described it; all over the place and sound a bit harsh and metallic feel to it. 

Just a boomer that you are missing out of the air and the sparkling shimmer ! ;( 

Would be very interesting to compare the DHC Spore4 against the SC and the stock cable, or if someone like @romaz can tell us if the spore4 got the nice analog shimmering sparkle to it ?


----------



## Hi-Phi

Let's not forget that SSA makes the endorphin cable for the Abyss. Very curious to see what people say about that one... No reviews out on it yet, but people with the hd800s swear by it.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Bought this cool table few months ago...


----------



## Torq

Cool!

Takes me right back to my childhood in England.

And with a time machine like that we could go back to the posts that seem to have disappeared from this thread in the last two hours or so.


----------



## cladane

Posts related to a problem with a member of the trade.
  
 Hello Kiats !
  
 Glad to see you. Always hearing at the outstanding C435 you smartly advised me.
  
 I read that you ordered the SC cables. Yes please let me know what they bring to the Abyss on the soundstage width.
 Not so smart than Spore4 ? Perhaps the two don't play on the same characteristics?
  
 Mahler symphonies DSD original:
http://sanfranciscosymphony.downloadsnow.net/mahler-symphony-no-2


----------



## Kiats

cladane said:


> Posts related to a problem with a member of the trade.
> 
> Hello Kiats !
> 
> ...




Haha! I am so Glad that the 435 still works for you. And we got you onto them in the nick of time. Before they were discontinued. 

As to cables, the Tralucent Uber cable and the Toxic Cables Silver Venom work well for me. But I wanted to try out the JPS SC cables too since Joe made them especially for the Abyss. He should know what he is doing since he created the Abyss. 

As for DHC, I had that cable made for my AKG K812. Let's just say that it is rarely used...


----------



## mulder01

kiats said:


> As for DHC, I had that cable made for my AKG K812. Let's just say that it is rarely used...


 
  
 That's the first time I've heard that - is it the silver spore?


----------



## Kiats

mulder01 said:


> That's the first time I've heard that - is it the silver spore?




It was the hybrid.


----------



## potkettleblack




----------



## Torq

potkettleblack said:


>


 

 Aha!
  
 "The Pyramids of Mars!"
  
 One of my favorite stories from my favorite Dr. (Tom Baker).


----------



## Beolab

cladane said:


> Posts related to a problem with a member of the trade.
> 
> Hello Kiats !
> 
> ...




All of this have been sorted out now, my intention was good, but it turned out to be a big mess out of it. 

My greatest apologies for that. 

So back to topic if i may

I will collect as many headphone cables for testing as i possibly can find. 

I do think that it will stand btw the Superconductor HP vs the DHC Spore4 or the Artisan Silver HP as an outlaw i have find maybe.

Story continues in a few weeks..


----------



## Kiats

The JPS Superconductor HP cables have arrived!  

Thanks, Joe!


----------



## Kiats

JPS SC plugged into the Cavalli LAu and the Abyss.


----------



## nassq8

Just received it at work. Use it for 15 minutes. Swift impression: functional design (sure won’t win a beauty contest), built like a tank, quality of the cable is impressive!  Surprisingly comfortable, and sounds fun, deep, big with a lot of muscle all from this little amp (full scale amp sure would take this to another level); and ya it has an insane price. But, I think this stays, other would go


----------



## draytonklammer

I couldn't justify this purchase so I settled for the HE-1000 and upgraded my amp and dac.


----------



## nassq8

draytonklammer said:


> I couldn't justify this purchase so I settled for the HE-1000 and upgraded my amp and dac.



 


HE-1000 has few competitors as far as I know. Properly amped, its performance and pleasure factor devastate all cans I'm having now and had before (except for 009, which's different beast, and now Abyss; both are not that far from HE-1000). I guess I'm still not settled about what I want; rolling some cans looking for the right spot starts to get out of controls. Hope Abyss ends this quest.


----------



## bmichels

nassq8 said:


> HE-1000 has few competitors as far as I know. Properly amped, its performance and pleasure factor devastate all cans I'm having now and had before (except for 009, which's different beast, and now Abyss; both are not that far from HE-1000). I guess I'm still not settled about what I want; rolling some cans looking for the right spot starts to get out of controls. Hope Abyss ends this quest.


 
  
 I have a HE-X  (that compared carefully to the HE-1000 and... prefered to the HE-1000), and I just placed a deposit for a BHSE since I plan to get a SR009.  
  
 --> Could you tell me how you compare the SR009 to the ABYSS and the HE1000 ?  Will the SR009 be an "upgrade" or a side step to the HE1000/X ?
  
 thanks


----------



## Beolab

Nice ant neat desktop High-End setup at work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Like the HiFi-M8 DAC/amp with Battery-isolated analog rails and 1 watt.
 http://centrance.com/products/hifi-m8/
  
 Quote:


nassq8 said:


> Just received it at work. Use it for 15 minutes. Swift impression: functional design (sure won’t win a beauty contest), built like a tank, quality of the cable is impressive!  Surprisingly comfortable, and sounds fun, deep, big with a lot of muscle all from this little amp (full scale amp sure would take this to another level); and ya it has an insane price. But, I think this stays, other would go


----------



## potkettleblack

Beau





nassq8 said:


> Just received it at work. Use it for 15 minutes. Swift impression: functional design (sure won’t win a beauty contest), built like a tank, quality of the cable is impressive!  Surprisingly comfortable, and sounds fun, deep, big with a lot of muscle all from this little amp (full scale amp sure would take this to another level); and ya it has an insane price. But, I think this stays, other would go


Be sure to try all the fits (even a really wide/medium fit that you wouldn't think would work - and change the pivots back and forth) these things change dramatically with how they sit on your head.


----------



## nassq8

bmichels said:


> I have a HE-X  (that compared carefully to the HE-1000 and... prefered to the HE-1000), and I just placed a deposit for a BHSE since I plan to get a SR009.
> 
> --> Could you tell me how you compare the SR009 to the ABYSS and the HE1000 ?  Will the SR009 be an "upgrade" or a side step to the HE1000/X ?
> 
> thanks


 
  
 Well I do not do reviews as I'm not qualified for it; but I can give my subjective 2 cents here. My benchmark for that matter is the level of listening pleasure a headphone can provide for me. 
  
 Given that, I can say:
  
 SR009's sound is the most articulate, fastest, cleanest I've ever encountered. The amount of detailed it can provide is overwhelming, its tracking capability for every single impulse from your source is unbelievable. SR009  only adds a dB when needed across FR spectrum. But it failed to hit my benchmark, simply because its superior technicality renders it funless for me. 
  
 For HE-1000, well what can I say, it's not SR009, but has everything I'm looking for to have the ultimate audio experience. Not cold nor lifeless, but cool atmosphere with earth-shaking sub-bass, smooth right mid, and nice high with some hot spots in sound here and there. But after all, it is this softness that holds such marvelous headphone to dig deeper and harder into the music. 
  
 For Abyss, yes this one does things differently. It has SR009’s soul but with a massive scale kick-ass hard sound, and a bit of recessed mid that adds the needed fun and pleasure into the mix, love it so far. 
  
 The biggest love I have for these cans goes to, lo and behold, its design and adjusting mechanism! Abyss’s ugly ass is the price to pay to reach such level of functionality. The design is flexible enough to give me the opportunity to experience the ultimate sound pleasure. It allows me to play around preset configurations built into its structure to hit the sweet spot, brilliant! I remember struggling with SR009 in finding a way to pull the phones away a little bit far from my ears in attempt to improve the bass response. 
  
 To me, Abyss is complementing HE-1000, both presents sound differently, but both hit my pleasure benchmark. However, one must go, and up to this moment, it sounds to be HE-1000. 
  
 Abyss and 009 are not complementing each other, as both have similar sound breed; though one is ethereal with a natural response while the other one is hard, tactile with tons of fun.  For me, they will never be under the same roof; one should prevail, and Abyss wins. 
  
 Hope that helps.


----------



## nassq8

potkettleblack said:


> Beau
> Be sure to try all the fits (even a really wide/medium fit that you wouldn't think would work - and change the pivots back and forth) these things change dramatically with how they sit on your head.


 
  
 That's the beauty of it


----------



## nassq8

> Nice ant neat desktop High-End setup at work


 

 Thanks, though I do not listen to music a lot at work, just use it as a station to receive and briefly test audio gears . My total listening sessions a day do not exceed 3 hours with moderate sound level, this is a kind of preventive measure to save my hearing.  HiFi-M8 is a great setup to test headphones on the fly


----------



## Kiats

Just wanted to make some quick notes on the JPS Superconductor cables. Good width and details. Just out of the box, no sibilance and good tonality. Good layering. 

About 5 hours out of the box, I am very impressed. No glare at all. Beautiful texture and details. Just right tonality and note weight. What lesser cables would do well to get close to when fully burned in. And this is very much right out of the box... I really look forward to hearing it open up as it burns in.


----------



## potkettleblack

@nassq8 

In the first world problem sense - It's a shame you're in that position. Out the three I'd keep the 009 and Abyss.


----------



## draytonklammer

Anyone have thoughts on the HE-1000 versus the Abyss?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

draytonklammer said:


> Anyone have thoughts on the HE-1000 versus the Abyss?


 
  
 Abyss gives me the BIG speakers like sound. No other headphone on the market comes close. Once your ears are used to AB, everything else sounds mid-Fi.


----------



## draytonklammer

hifiguy528 said:


> Abyss gives me the BIG speakers like sound. No other headphone on the market comes close. Once your ears are used to AB, everything else sounds mid-Fi.




I've been considering buying them but I also worry about the weight. I have a problematic neck so the Audeze lineup used to hurt me.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

draytonklammer said:


> I've been considering buying them but I also worry about the weight. I have a problematic neck so the Audeze lineup used to hurt me.


 
  
 Audeze phones are heavy and high clamping force so your head really feel the weight. Abyss distributes the weight evenly. When properly fitted, you don't feel its weight and it's rather secured on the head. I walk around the house and even prepare meals for my three dogs while wearing AB. The ear pads should only lightly touch the side of your head so there's no clamping force to be concerned with.


----------



## up late

agree that the abyss's weight is well distributed but it remains a heavy can. if the guy has a neck problem then i'd be loathed to recommend abyss or audeze to him.

i spent some time with the lcd4 yesterday. i dislike wearing cans that clamp and had no issue with the lcd4 in that department. however, despite its plush earpads and comfy headband it too is a heavy can.


----------



## mulder01

up late said:


> agree that the abyss's weight is well distributed but it remains a heavy can. if the guy has a neck problem then i'd be loathed to recommend abyss or audeze to him.
> 
> i spent some time with the lcd4 yesterday. i dislike wearing cans that clamp and had no issue with the lcd4 in that department. however, despite its plush earpads and comfy headband it too is a heavy can.


 
  
 ^ I'd be inclined to agree - 500g (or whatever it is) of downward pressure on your neck is 500g of downward pressure on your neck regardless of how well that weight is distributed across your head. If I were you I'd steer clear of anything heavy - regardless of design.


----------



## draytonklammer

Thanks for the thoughts gents. Looks like the HE-1000 is my summit for now.


----------



## up late

the he-1000 will be easier on your neck


----------



## draytonklammer

up late said:


> the he-1000 will be easier on your neck




So far every Audeze has hurt my neck with their use. 

The HD 800 and 800S along with the HE-1000 have not.


----------



## up late

the he-1000 is the lightest planar magnetic that i've worn. i found it more comfortable than the hd800/s.


----------



## draytonklammer

up late said:


> the he-1000 is the lightest planar magnetic that i've worn. i found it more comfortable than the hd800/s.




I agree, I find it to be more comfortable and sound much more musical. I personally think it sounds better than my Sennheiser.


----------



## up late

we've gone way off topic. this is the abyss thread after all. all the best.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Just one of those quiet evenings, doing some A/B/Cing...


----------



## potkettleblack

Sat here doing bass tests with the song: Devils hands - Truth... And I cannot wrap my head around how customisable these headphones are. We're talking 20mm adjustments either way, tightening or loosening the seal, or pivoting the frame forward and backwards and you can go from Mr speakers ether bass (yes I said it) to end of days type bass. Or thin, sparkly treble to meaty articulate treble. 

Just insane. I thought it was a gimmick.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

So glad you are enjoying them!!!  Are you using the iDSD to drive them at home?


----------



## potkettleblack

Yup


----------



## Joe Skubinski

And a damn cool gimmick at that...

Make it as simple as possible, and no simpler...

I should add that one of the design goals was to allow the owner to taylor his or her Abyss to their ears, and to tracks that vary wildly in how they were recorded. Playback should not be so damn fixed in space, move around man....



potkettleblack said:


> Sat here doing bass tests with the song: Devils hands - Truth... And I cannot wrap my head around how customisable these headphones are. We're talking 20mm adjustments either way, tightening or loosening the seal, or pivoting the frame forward and backwards and you can go from Mr speakers ether bass (yes I said it) to end of days type bass. Or thin, sparkly treble to meaty articulate treble.
> 
> Just insane. I thought it was a gimmick.


----------



## potkettleblack

joe skubinski said:


> And a damn cool gimmick at that...
> 
> Make it as simple as possible, and no simpler...
> 
> I should add that one of the design goals was to allow the owner to taylor his or her Abyss to their ears, and to tracks that vary wildly in how they were recorded. Playback should not be so damn fixed in space, move around man....


Agreed. I went from Schubert, to dubstep to portishead and then to Vivaldi, adjusting each time with some incredible results.

There's always been times with even my favourite headphones where I've wanted 'a little more of this or a little of that' but it's never really happened. The amount of sweet spots the 1266 can offer is really something else.


----------



## Nik

Honestly I do not like to change the fit of the Abyss on my head. I always prefer to put it the same way, (the best way) and evaluate the different recordings were made. 
And more... I am discovering that not always the Superconductor cable is better than stock cable, sometimes I prefer the original ...
Just my two cents...


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Well then you do make changes in response to the various recordings.

I enjoy doing that with amps, I'll switch between tubes and solid state depending on the genre.


----------



## HighNFidelity

How would you personally describe the differences between these two articulate cables?



nik said:


> And more... I am discovering that not always the Superconductor cable is better than stock cable, sometimes I prefer the original ...
> Just my two cents...


----------



## Nik

More or less like this:
https://audiobacon.net/2016/02/22/headphone-cable-review-jps-superconductor-hp-cable-vs-stock-abyss-cable/


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Out of interest, I have listed my Abyss + Pass amp for sale.
  
 I'm not 100% sure I want to sell it because it sounds so good, but here we go...


----------



## Nik

Why are you selling them? 
(Do the Pass a good job with the Abyss?)


----------



## bigfatpaulie

It does an outstanding job with the Abyss!!  It's certainly not the reason I'm selling.


----------



## Kiats

joe skubinski said:


> Well then you do make changes in response to the various recordings.
> 
> I enjoy doing that with amps, I'll switch between tubes and solid state depending on the genre.




Joe, do you have any tube amp you particularly like with the Abyss? 

Btw, the SC you kindly sent us almost burned in. Missed 3 days cos I was away on the road. But thus far, you are absolutely right: the SC takes the Abyss to another level. It's more organic and natural with gobs of details and excellent sense of space. I particularly enjoy the additional layering in the soundstage. Very much more of a 3D experience now.


----------



## cladane

kiats said:


> Joe, do you have any tube amp you particularly like with the Abyss?
> 
> Btw, the SC you kindly sent us almost burned in. Missed 3 days cos I was away on the road. But thus far, you are absolutely right: the SC takes the Abyss to another level. It's more organic and natural with gobs of details and excellent sense of space. I particularly enjoy the additional layering in the soundstage. Very much more of a 3D experience now.


 
 Don't know if Joe had the opportunity but as a tube amp I would suggest the VIVA Egoista.
  
 Very interesting comment about the SC concerning the soundstage. That's the point I miss somehow with the stock cable I would try a crossfeed add on.
 Is the SC so smart on this concern ?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

I've used the Egoista at RMAF for a few days in our showroom, tweaked it with cables, etc. It's picky with power cords for sure, sounds great, lots of power.

I personally love the Woo amps, their models keep getting better. I have the WA-5 and the LAu at home, been breaking in and understanding the new driver for Diana in preparation for further tuning. My son is using the Wells HeadTrip which is also a favorite as solid state goes.

@Kiats, glad you're liking the cable.


----------



## Kiats

joe skubinski said:


> I've used the Egoista at RMAF for a few days in our showroom, tweaked it with cables, etc. It's picky with power cords for sure, sounds great, lots of power.
> 
> I personally love the Woo amps, their models keep getting better. I have the WA-5 and the LAu at home, been breaking in and understanding the new driver for Diana in preparation for further tuning. My son is using the Wells HeadTrip which is also a favorite as solid state goes.
> 
> @Kiats, glad you're liking the cable.




Thanks, Joe! Ah... The Egoista... I assume the kaptovator will be a good match insofar as power cord is concerned.  It certainly is stellar with the LAu. 

I was wondering if anyone had ever tried the Abyss with the ALO Studio Six. I think at this level, it's down to synergy.

Yes, Joe, very much so! The Superconductor cable is gorgeous with the Abyss! I am so very glad that I have it.


----------



## Kiats

cladane said:


> Don't know if Joe had the opportunity but as a tube amp I would suggest the VIVA Egoista.
> 
> Very interesting comment about the SC concerning the soundstage. That's the point I miss somehow with the stock cable I would try a crossfeed add on.
> Is the SC so smart on this concern ?




Cladane, if like me, you appreciate depth and not just width of the soundstage, it is certainly something to consider.


----------



## Nik

Guys... I'd like to compare these two Ss headphones amplifier for our Abyss... 
Headtrip Wells audio and Goldmund THA2...


----------



## mulder01

nik said:


> Guys... I'd like to compare these two Ss headphones amplifier for our Abyss...
> Headtrip Wells audio and Goldmund THA2...


 
  
 ...okay
 go for it...


----------



## galacticsoap

Hi Everyone - I've had my Abyss' for about 6 months now and was recently in a position where had to make a decision between the Abyss and the HE1K which I also owned at the time. I was convinced that I'd be happy with either headphone. I also assumed that given I was asking $1K more for the Abyss on the second hand market that the HE1K would be an easier sell. Two curious and surprising things took place upon listing both headphones for sale: I was almost immediately approached by two buyers wanting the Abyss, as such when it actually started to dawn on me that things could play out to the extent that I'd have to give up on the Abyss' sound I almost immediately felt some profound sellers remorse. Luckily a few days later I was approached by a local buyer interested in the HE1K. What surprised me was just how much I had grown to love the Abyss. As such I'm now seriously considering the SC cable upgrade. My rig is relatively resolving, however I'm not keen on dropping $AU3K on a cable without hearing it - has anyone heard the Abyss + SC on the V281? I'll try and organise an in home trial of the SC! Wish me luck!


----------



## discodelico

Hello,
I've got the same problem.
I'd like to upgrade my Abyss with a SC cable, but I've never listened this cable...
If you listen the SC, please let me know your opinion.
P.S. My amplifier is a Viva Egoista 846


----------



## Beolab

I got the SC waiting for me in the car .. 

Will have a listening tonight. 


Dave using 1/4inch phono - 3pin XLR JPS Labs adapter 
And 
Wells Audio Headtrip Amp with Straight 3pin xlr


----------



## Nik

Sometimes with the stock cable I can ear sounds totally out of the head, and the effect is so real that I go to see if the window is open... I do not have experienced this with the SC cable...
I'm convinced myself that the two excellent cables are simply different...


----------



## potkettleblack

galacticsoap said:


> Hi Everyone - I've had my Abyss' for about 6 months now and was recently in a position where had to make a decision between the Abyss and the HE1K which I also owned at the time. I was convinced that I'd be happy with either headphone. I also assumed that given I was asking $1K more for the Abyss on the second hand market that the HE1K would be an easier sell. Two curious and surprising things took place upon listing both headphones for sale: I was almost immediately approached by two buyers wanting the Abyss, as such when it actually started to dawn on me that things could play out to the extent that I'd have to give up on the Abyss' sound I almost immediately felt some profound sellers remorse. Luckily a few days later I was approached by a local buyer interested in the HE1K. What surprised me was just how much I had grown to love the Abyss. As such I'm now seriously considering the SC cable upgrade. My rig is relatively resolving, however I'm not keen on dropping $AU3K on a cable without hearing it - has anyone heard the Abyss + SC on the V281? I'll try and organise an in home trial of the SC! Wish me luck!


This is becoming very trite now but I can't recommend the new Stax L700 enough as a great compliment for your abyss. Love the HEk but the L700 surpasses them in every regard minus the detail and meat in the lower frequencies in my opinion.


----------



## Beolab

nik said:


> Sometimes with the stock cable I can ear sounds totally out of the head, and the effect is so real that I go to see if the window is open... I do not have experienced this with the SC cable...
> I'm convinced myself that the two excellent cables are simply different...





My first impressions after about 3 hours and this is my second listening to the SC: 

Where did all the fine micro detail go!? 

The sound is fuller, thicker and more combusted, with a warmer and less veil tone than the more metall / veil stock cable. 

The quantity of bass is about even with the stock, but got a warmer tone and is less flat. 

Depht and soundstage are more vivid and more alive. 

But as i mentiond already, i miss out the fine resolution and micro details, so im searching for a more more detailed cable without the veil charachtere, with a warm and controlled bass, so mybe the DHC Companion 4 / Spore4 is the right one then. 

So it would be very nice if anyone can contribute with some fore and against qualities in the SQ diffrence btw DHC Spore4 / SC / Jps Stock before ordering one.


----------



## yates7592

I made several posts regarding DHC Spore cables and compatibility with Abyss in the last few weeks that were inexplicably wiped by whoever controls this thread.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The Superconductor HP needs a good week of constant playing for the micro detail and spaciousness to shine, so it sounds as if they do not have enough time on them.


----------



## Nik

Do the SC cable totally burned in? The cable open A LOT after 40 hours... But you are right about micro detail... (IMHO). 
There is also a kimber cable for the Abyss...


----------



## Beolab

//\\


----------



## Kiats

joe skubinski said:


> The Superconductor HP needs a good week of constant playing for the micro detail and spaciousness to shine, so it sounds as if they do not have enough time on them.




Agree with you, Joe. The initial impression is more richness and layering. Then the sense of space and details shine through with additional burn in.


----------



## Beolab

yates7592 said:


> I made several posts regarding DHC Spore cables and compatibility with Abyss in the last few weeks that were inexplicably wiped by whoever controls this thread.




The SC Cable have been a loaner to one customer before me for two weeks time, so it have approximately 25 houers on it already according to the customer who borrowed it+ my 5h equals 30 hours in total. 

Still really don't hear the fine micro detailed resolution from the detail , nuance, depth monster Chord DAVE at all, as i do with the stock "veil" cable. 

I like the overall smooth thick sound note of the SC, but i miss out the fine micro dynamic / detailed resolution;( 

But i will give it an additional 50 hours for break in, and then give it a shoot again! 

I have read alot of impressions about the DHC Spore4, and i think i have a fairly good picture of the SQ performance out of it, but my quest is if anyone have compared the SC with the DHC combined with the Abyss, otherwise i have to order it also, to make a comparision. 

Because I do think the DHC 4 have its own flaws also ( nothing is perfect) and i want to be sure about i got the best possible cable that suits my taste and synergy for my rig. 

Story continues..


----------



## Torq

potkettleblack said:


> Sat here doing bass tests with the song: Devils hands - Truth... And I cannot wrap my head around how customisable these headphones are. We're talking 20mm adjustments either way, tightening or loosening the seal, or pivoting the frame forward and backwards and you can go from Mr speakers ether bass (yes I said it) to end of days type bass. Or thin, sparkly treble to meaty articulate treble.
> 
> Just insane. I thought it was a gimmick.


 

 When I first got my Abyss, just a few weeks ago now, I was too focused on getting "one true position".  Once I'd found a position/setting that worked really well for pretty much everything (super-light seal - ear pads level) - I found it was also extremely easy to get back to that positioning.  Then I started experimenting and found, for myself, the chameleonic nature of the Abyss.
  
 With the Tanita Tikaram I'm listening too right now I find having the drivers angled forward (closer to my head behind the ears) and just minimally open at the front does the opposite of what I'd expect for the soundstage (widens it) but seems to fit her music better than how I listen to, say, Amber Rubarth or Norah Jones (angled back, but with a light seal).
  
 The more time I spend with these things the happier I am (and I was pretty bloody happy to start with)!


----------



## phase0

I was curious when you guys are testing cables if you ever obtain or make an ultra cheap cable just as a test control group? Do you ever try to set up a blind test where you don't know which cable you are listening through? Where I'm at right now I can't imagine spending that kind of money on a cable. I'd probably just buy another headphone instead.


----------



## mulder01

phase0 said:


> I was curious when you guys are testing cables if you ever obtain or make an ultra cheap cable just as a test control group? Do you ever try to set up a blind test where you don't know which cable you are listening through? Where I'm at right now I can't imagine spending that kind of money on a cable. I'd probably just buy another headphone instead.


 
  
 Yeah, everyone always blind tests cables, right?


----------



## galacticsoap

@potkettleblack - Thanks for the heads up re: the L700. I'm at a stage now where I'm looking to consolidate some of my excesses from last year i.e. last year saw me dive head first into two very different, but two highly enjoyable systems (2 channel & nearfield/headfi). As part of that process I ended up with the HE1K & Abyss. In hindsight I should have just stuck with the Abyss as really, my listening preferences aren't nuanced enough to prefer one headphone's tonality to another's. I'm conscious that while the L700 will no doubt be excellent, and a worthy compliment to the Abyss, pragmatically I'll really only be reaching for one and not the other and may well find myself in the position I do now i.e. having to sell one as I couldn't justify owning both. Having said all of that - I will seek them out and give them a listen (famous last words). 
  
 Thanks to everyone for sharing your impressions on the SC cable. I'm fascinated by what I'm reading. From what I've read of the SC as a speaker cable is that it's an agile (i.e. imparts great PRAT) cable with brilliant extension top to bottom (in the right system). Compared to the equivalently priced cables manufactured by Purist Audio Design (PAD) the SC is said to be more dynamic and resolving. As such, reading about the SC Headphone Cable's thicker and fuller sound with a potential step back as far as micro detail was concerned did take me by surprise.
  
 I am heartened by the impression that the SC is simply different to the stock cable as opposed to being an outright improvement. What I'm looking for in my potential cable upgrade is the ability to put a little bit more weight through the midrange thereby accentuating the (already very good) timbre and decay I'm enjoying. There's also at times just the slightest hint of grain in the upper extremities when it comes to high frequency extension I wouldn't mind smoothing out a touch. Lastly, I'd want all of this while changing nothing when it comes to the mid-bass and sub-bass performance i.e. I love the taught and controlled nature of the Abyss' bass, while there's slam there's also texture, and enough resolution for it to be suspended in enough space for it to be appreciated in its entirity. 
  
 It's a pitty that some of the DHC Spore user experiences have disappeared. This is what I consider Headfi's most compelling feature: user experiences from punters out in the world putting a variety of systems and components through their paces.To lose that would be a great a loss.    
  
 As with anything when your dealing with components at this end of the pricing spectrum the differences that arise are just that - differences, nuanced and subtle. Being able to talk about those differences and subtleties is what its all about, which in turn, I would hope would spark continious improvement from the various manufacturers that grace this forum as they get more and more insight into their customers preferences. 
  
 Anyway, I'll keep my gunpowder dry and eagerly await more impressions re: the various cables out there!
  
 Currently listening to Jon Hopkins Late Night Tales release on the Abyss and I'm having my mind blown!


----------



## mulder01

^ I don't think there's any censoring of posts going on or anything like that - back a few weeks ago when the whole B&O thing was going on, the mods just deleted whole pages worth of stuff which happens from time to time when threads go off track and sometimes a few useful posts in the middle get cleaned out too.  The mods have a fairly big job to do so maybe they don't consider every individual post in a situation like that but just delete the whole area where the thread went off-track.  Anyone is welcome to re-post their thoughts if they want to


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Audition Abyss Lite and Full version with upgrade cable at CanJam SoCal this weekend. We'll have TWO new WA5-LE amplifiers powering each.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/784296/canjam-socal-2016-march-19-20-2016


----------



## Beolab

60 hours on the SC


----------



## Nik

You need to change left to right...


----------



## potkettleblack

beolab said:


> 60 hours on the SC


Play 'Speed Demon' by Michael Jackson, and let me know what it likes to hear the motorbike come from the right. Always wondered.


----------



## Beolab

nik said:


> You need to change left to right...




Funny you noticed it, i just testing out a small issue i heard in my system and wanted to see if the low end flickering noise moved to the other left channel.


----------



## Beolab

potkettleblack said:


> Play 'Speed Demon' by Michael Jackson, and let me know what it likes to hear the motorbike come from the right. Always wondered.




Will try it out an report back.


----------



## galacticsoap

mulder01 said:


> ^ I don't think there's any censoring of posts going on or anything like that - back a few weeks ago when the whole B&O thing was going on, the mods just deleted whole pages worth of stuff which happens from time to time when threads go off track and sometimes a few useful posts in the middle get cleaned out too.  The mods have a fairly big job to do so maybe they don't consider every individual post in a situation like that but just delete the whole area where the thread went off-track.  Anyone is welcome to re-post their thoughts if they want to


 
  
 Brilliant, that's good to know, and couldn't agree more re: your point re: how big a job the mods on this forum have on their hands. 
  
 I'd appreciate if those with any other cables could take the time to post your thoughts re: their various sonic traits. I've searched the thread and aside from a few posts highlighting that they were intending on purchasing the cable, or that they had since secured them there is little in the way of actual feedback re: what each cable did to the sound aside from the recent posts on the SC.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Abyss is having a good showing at the 2016 SoCal CanJam with all the big boy amps...

Not one, but two Woo Audio WA5 LE amps, different colors depending on your mood. The silver amp has upgraded tubes and the AB-1266 is running the JPS Labs Superconductor HP cable upgrade, in fact the entire room is wired with JPS!









Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold needs no intro...





Wells Audio HeadTrip wowing the masses, another Abyss outfitted with the JPS Superconductor HP cable...


----------



## isquirrel

galacticsoap said:


> Brilliant, that's good to know, and couldn't agree more re: your point re: how big a job the mods on this forum have on their hands.
> 
> I'd appreciate if those with any other cables could take the time to post your thoughts re: their various sonic traits. I've searched the thread and aside from a few posts highlighting that they were intending on purchasing the cable, or that they had since secured them there is little in the way of actual feedback re: what each cable did to the sound aside from the recent posts on the SC.


 

 I can only comment on the DHC Spore 4 all Silver which I use, I did a brief compare to the SC cable and I preferred the transparency and the mid range of the DHC cable, I am running these as individual cables with 3 pin balanced connectors on the ends. There was another aspect of the DHC cable that both Fririce0003 and I noticed in that we were both able to sense the build of a bass note by this sense that the pressure was building just before the note which we both enjoyed. We both tried the SC cable and Matt in particular found it heavy and quite difficult to move around with, it didn't bother me so much. The sound signature of the SC and the stock cable was quite similar, in that you could tell that they both came from the same manufacturer. There were some aspects of the stock cable that I preferred, I felt it was a bit more transparent and that bass notes were easier to pick out and listen to. All in all the stock cable is very good and you have to pay quite a lot more to get better performance. It really is the sort of thing you need to hear for yourself, I can imagine with some brighter gear I might have preferred the SC for its smoothness. 
  
 TBH I didn't really have enough time and had too much else going on at that time to really give it the attention it deserves. I would have liked to have spent a week with it, but my dealer A2A being in another state I can't borrow cables so I only had a short amount of time with it.  
  
 Hope that helps, its not a really conclusive test.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Who says it isn't portable


----------



## isquirrel

joe skubinski said:


> Who says it isn't portable


 

 I listen to mine in bed lying in bed, keeps my back straight....


----------



## draytonklammer

Wish I could try these out to see if I preferred the HE-1000 or this.


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> Wish I could try these out to see if I preferred the HE-1000 or this.




The Cable Co. has a headphone lending library which will let you do just that. That's how I got the HE-1000 and Abyss together for my own audition.


----------



## draytonklammer

torq said:


> The Cable Co. has a headphone lending library which will let you do just that. That's how I got the HE-1000 and Abyss together for my own audition.




Where would I find this Cable CO? And how much does it cost?


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> Where would I find this Cable CO? And how much does it cost?




This is " The Cable Co." and then here is the Headphone Lending Library .

You pay a non nrefundable deposit of 5% of the cost of the items you borrow, but you get the entire amount as a credit towards anything they sell. So if you wind up buying one of headphones you borrow, it costs you nothing but shipping. Details are all on the page. It worked extremely well for me.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

We've been running into DAC outputs being set to bypass or full volume into an amplifier, causing distortion at musical peaks particularly with heavy bass, due to clipping of the amps input stage. Line level inputs have limits as to how much voltage swing they can handle, once exceeded the clipping can sound like just about anything depending on the amp, but in all cases it's heavy distortion at peak levels, can occur with bass, can occur with horn or piano.

This is exasperated by the fact that commercial recordings tend to ride as close to digital 0dB (full volume) as possible to maximize loudness.

It's easy to point the finger at the Abyss, as some have also tried other headphones they own and do not hear the distortion. To that I say sorry to hear that, but it's not the headphones.

Some of today's DAC's exceed the 2.0 volt max line level standard by quite a bit, so at full volume out you have way too much gain.

If both your DAC and amp have volume controls, my suggestion is to set the output volume of the DAC so you have a good range of volume adjustment on your headphone amp, as in full volume is around 3 o'clock on the amps volume control, or about 80% of the maximum volume setting. This should ensure you're not clipping the amp input. This in contrast to full volume being below say 12 o'clock or 40% volume on the amp, where almost for sure the output of the DAC is coming in way too hot and will cause clipping.


----------



## Stereolab42

Out with the LCD-3 (sold) and in with the new... I blame the guys at Woo for constantly demoing the Abyss with the WA5 at every meet I've been to...
  

  
 I found myself not using my LCD-3 at all because the Ether so thoroughly kicked its ass (always admired the LCD-3's punch but cannot get past the veil it throws over the music). As a matter of principle I needed something to compete with the Ether on a regular basis, so I sold the LCD-3 and got the Abyss. I'd always known the Abyss was endgame from my demos but wasn't willing to spend the bux until now. It's just as good as I knew it was! Love the massive soundstage and head-ripping dynamics. Now I just need to replace the cables... no sonic complaints but I can't deal with the stiffness. (Yeah, that's what she said.) Exploring a couple options at the moment.


----------



## Nik

Welcome to the Abyss owners... I came back to the stock cable after the Superconductor...


----------



## metalboss

nik said:


> Welcome to the Abyss owners... I came back to the stock cable after the Superconductor...


 

May I ask the reason behind please...


----------



## Nik

The two beautiful cables are simply different to my ears... So, depending by the electronic you have, the stock one is preferred. The SC is a excellent "massive" cable that gives to the Abyss a BIG authority, but the stock one is more transparent and "light" sound... Just my two cents...


----------



## Yoga

Perhaps you should try the DHC Spore4 cable @Nik


----------



## Nik

Yes, or the Nordost...


----------



## galacticsoap

isquirrel said:


> I can only comment on the DHC Spore 4 all Silver which I use, I did a brief compare to the SC cable and I preferred the transparency and the mid range of the DHC cable, I am running these as individual cables with 3 pin balanced connectors on the ends. There was another aspect of the DHC cable that both Fririce0003 and I noticed in that we were both able to sense the build of a bass note by this sense that the pressure was building just before the note which we both enjoyed. We both tried the SC cable and Matt in particular found it heavy and quite difficult to move around with, it didn't bother me so much. The sound signature of the SC and the stock cable was quite similar, in that you could tell that they both came from the same manufacturer. There were some aspects of the stock cable that I preferred, I felt it was a bit more transparent and that bass notes were easier to pick out and listen to. All in all the stock cable is very good and you have to pay quite a lot more to get better performance. It really is the sort of thing you need to hear for yourself, I can imagine with some brighter gear I might have preferred the SC for its smoothness.
> 
> TBH I didn't really have enough time and had too much else going on at that time to really give it the attention it deserves. I would have liked to have spent a week with it, but my dealer A2A being in another state I can't borrow cables so I only had a short amount of time with it.
> 
> Hope that helps, its not a really conclusive test.


 
  
 Thank you mate - that's brilliant
  
 I'd like to think my system is fairly neutral and transparent as such what I'm hearing at the moment is a function of the stock cable and the headphones. As mentioned I'm after a bit more weight, nuance, and timbre through the mid-range, while still retaining the agility of the Abyss' top-end and tautness and control when it comes to sub-bass. Your description of the DHC cable is compelling. I might reach out to the team at DHC and see what they can do for me by way of a trial. 
  
 RE: The Hemidal - my understand that introduces are warmer tonality into the mix. As such, that too sounds enticing. What I find very interesting is that the Nordost website groups the Abyss and Audeze headphones as being serviced by the same cable despite the 3 pin vs 4 pin mini-xlr differences when it comes to the Abyss vs Audeze. At the risk of asking a silly question does this mean that Audeze cables could potentially work with the Abyss?


----------



## mulder01

galacticsoap said:


> Thank you mate - that's brilliant
> 
> I'd like to think my system is fairly neutral and transparent as such what I'm hearing at the moment is a function of the stock cable and the headphones. As mentioned I'm after a bit more weight, nuance, and timbre through the mid-range, while still retaining the agility of the Abyss' top-end and tautness and control when it comes to sub-bass. Your description of the DHC cable is compelling. I might reach out to the team at DHC and see what they can do for me by way of a trial.
> 
> RE: The Hemidal - my understand that introduces are warmer tonality into the mix. As such, that too sounds enticing. What I find very interesting is that the Nordost website groups the Abyss and Audeze headphones as being serviced by the same cable despite the 3 pin vs 4 pin mini-xlr differences when it comes to the Abyss vs Audeze. At the risk of asking a silly question does this mean that Audeze cables could potentially work with the Abyss?


 
  
 I'd think that since there's a 4 month wait if you pay for a cable from DHC, I'd say your chances of getting one sent out without payment is slim to none.  Pretty sure it's just one guy that hand makes every cable to order...
  
 Failry sure people have said in the past on this thread that Audeze / Abyss cables are not interchangeable.  That was a long time ago though...


----------



## galacticsoap

mulder01 said:


> I'd think that since there's a 4 month wait if you pay for a cable from DHC, I'd say your chances of getting one sent out without payment is slim to none.  Pretty sure it's just one guy that hand makes every cable to order...
> 
> Failry sure people have said in the past on this thread that Audeze / Abyss cables are not interchangeable.  That was a long time ago though...


 
  
 Hi Mate - RE: the DHC, I'd happily pay in full so long as I had the ability to return the cable if it wasn't to my tastes. 
  
 Not surprised re: Audeze cables not being interchangeable with Abyss, I would have thought if that was the case there would be a few user experiences floating around the net. Even more surprising then that Nordost list both cans as being compatible with that iteration of Hemidall.


----------



## isquirrel

mulder01 said:


> I'd think that since there's a 4 month wait if you pay for a cable from DHC, I'd say your chances of getting one sent out without payment is slim to none.  Pretty sure it's just one guy that hand makes every cable to order...
> 
> Failry sure people have said in the past on this thread that Audeze / Abyss cables are not interchangeable.  That was a long time ago though...


 

 Just to be clear about this, if you tell Peter at DHC at time of order that you want the adapters system, he will build you a cable to suit the HE-1000 because it uses a 2.5MM jack that fits perfectly into the adapters for the Audeze and Abyss. Photos attached. I have been running this adapters system with both HE-1000, Abyss and Audeze with zero issues and it saves me having to have either other cables or longer more tradtional types of adapters.


----------



## Nik

I don't understand why only in the headphones world we have so different and specified cable custom for each cans... 
Interconnect, speakers cable you buy are for all kind of speakers and electronic you have in use... (???)!


----------



## isquirrel

nik said:


> I don't understand why only in the headphones world we have so different and specified cable custom for each cans...
> Interconnect, speakers cable you buy are for all kind of speakers and electronic you have in use... (???)!


 

 Not really Nic, once you get into the high end of 2 channel cables, take Transparent for instance they are individually calibrated to your equipment - to be precise they match the networks to the output and input impedance of your components. Not everyone agrees with that of course, your Nordost Odin 2 are very very expensive cables but and please correct me if I am wrong but Nordost do not custom match them to components, different cable so different philosophy and different technical requirements. 
  
 We are not saying that you must change the Headphone cables, as always budget and system synergy is what's important. What I think is cool is that a cable manufacturers (DHC) has come up with a system that allows the same cable to be used with minimal or no loss with adapters for different Headphones, thereby protecting your investment in their cables. 
  
 I have just received some Transparent Interconnect cables today, which replaced the DHC IC cables, interesting DHC uses the same cable for IC's as they do for Headphones, in discussions with other manufacturers they do not agree with doing that. I put it to the test today and bingo it turns out a substantial musical performance increase was unlocked. I subsequently requested Transparent make up some headphone cable for me using the same cable as their Interconnects and this was there response:
  
 "We have tested interconnects as headphone cables and found that, at least with our cable designs, the cable geometry and network needs to be optimized for the impedance and sensitivity of headphones. Headphones are more like speakers than line level connections with impedances that fall between about 30 and 600 Ohms and they can pull quite a bit of voltage or current for short dynamic passages.  That is very different from a 200,000+ Ohm input impedance on a typical balanced line level input and we think it requires a different cable and network design.  We are actively working on this but at this point I don't want to offer a solution until we have done all of our R&D and have a fully developed product."
  
 If you are interested I will post some photos of the Transparent cables.


----------



## isquirrel

galacticsoap said:


> Thank you mate - that's brilliant
> 
> I'd like to think my system is fairly neutral and transparent as such what I'm hearing at the moment is a function of the stock cable and the headphones. As mentioned I'm after a bit more weight, nuance, and timbre through the mid-range, while still retaining the agility of the Abyss' top-end and tautness and control when it comes to sub-bass. Your description of the DHC cable is compelling. I might reach out to the team at DHC and see what they can do for me by way of a trial.
> 
> RE: The Hemidal - my understand that introduces are warmer tonality into the mix. As such, that too sounds enticing. What I find very interesting is that the Nordost website groups the Abyss and Audeze headphones as being serviced by the same cable despite the 3 pin vs 4 pin mini-xlr differences when it comes to the Abyss vs Audeze. At the risk of asking a silly question does this mean that Audeze cables could potentially work with the Abyss?


 

 Audeze connections will not work with the Abyss. I have tried a full system suite of the Nordost Heimdall 2's IC's, Coax and Headphone cable, the description you have been given is a good sales pitch but not accurate. The Nordost will sharpen up the sound and in the system I was running at the time made the sound thinner and added brightness, to be frank I found them fatiguing once they had settled in. The higher end Nordost - (like Nic has) is a completely different beast, however I don't believe they make Headphone cables at that level (Odin 2).


----------



## mulder01

isquirrel said:


> What I think is cool is that a cable manufacturers (DHC) has come up with a system that allows the same cable to be used with minimal or no loss with adapters for different Headphones, thereby protecting your investment in their cables.


 
  
 Definitely - it's a good idea.  Especially considering how often people change headphones in this hobby, or even change from one to another depending on genre etc.


----------



## Nik

I don't understand well... For example : jps do two fantastic cable for their Abyss, I suppose they know the headphones... And the two jps cables sound so different... Are there one right and the other wrong? They know the specs of the Abyss... or not?


----------



## isquirrel

nik said:


> I don't understand well... For example : jps do two fantastic cable for their Abyss, I suppose they know the headphones... And the two jps cables sound so different... Are there one right and the other wrong? They know the specs of the Abyss... or not?


 

 JPS make a great headphone, fortunately they also supply it with a good performing cable, one of the best stock cables made. They also make an excellent cable you can upgrade to, however like all things audio its subject to personal choice and your system synergy. If you have heard it and its not for you then great at least you have given it a go and hopefully it helps you refine what you want out of your headphone cable. As far them knowing the specs of the Abyss I would be very surprised if they didn't know everything that there is to know about their own headphone.
  
 When you bought the cables for the rest of your system did you audition a few other brands as well?


----------



## Nik

Of course... I had many excellent cables as Siltech, but Nordost Odin was the better for my setup...


----------



## isquirrel

What aspect of the sound do you most wish to change ?


----------



## FiftyKilo

Hi,
 I allways had good sound quality with Kimber cables. Had some one the chance to listen to the new KIMBER Axios Headphone Cabel ( they do a special modell for the Abyss ) ?     
 Ralf


----------



## Nik

isquirrel said:


> What aspect of the sound do you most wish to change ?




I love the stock cable for my Abyss, but sometimes... Experiment other cable will be good surprise...


----------



## Xecuter

Hi guys, thanks for all your comments and reviews. I finally got my Abyss and couldn't be happier.
  
 I think seeing Joe's presence here and having a chance to spend a decent amount of time with the headphone with some of the users from here made it hard not to buy!
  
 It is nice to finally hear what my gear is capable of and to enjoy the music experience only the Abyss can offer. 
  
 I look forward to contributing a bit more here!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

xecuter said:


> Hi guys, thanks for all your comments and reviews. I finally got my Abyss and couldn't be happier.
> 
> I think seeing Joe's presence here and having a chance to spend a decent amount of time with the headphone with some of the users from here made it hard not to buy!
> 
> ...


 
  
 congratulations! We would love to see some pics of your system.


----------



## Xecuter

Happy to oblige! Although I will warn you, I don't have a fancy camera or any photography skills sorry!
  

  

  

  

  
 We need to move into a house so I can get serious about speakers and buy a few more amps


----------



## Stereolab42

You've got to be kidding me. Listening to some of Lisa Gerrard's tracks from the (very hard to find) Dead Can Dance 2005 live albums... I've never heard anything like this from headphones. The clarity, the impact, the poise of what I'm hearing is nothing short of supernatural. This is the kind of sound I've only heard before in those nosebleed rooms at audio shows filled with $200k of equipment.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

xecuter said:


> Happy to oblige! Although I will warn you, I don't have a fancy camera or any photography skills sorry!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for the lovely pics. I rarely use my Focal Mezzo Utopia speakers... The sweet spot is on my head with Abyss.


----------



## draytonklammer

Anyone gone from the HE-1000 to the Abyss?
  
 Thinking about making that switch, but need to know if I should.


----------



## isquirrel

draytonklammer said:


> Anyone gone from the HE-1000 to the Abyss?
> 
> Thinking about making that switch, but need to know if I should.




Had both sold the HE-1000, kept the Abyss, enough said !


----------



## draytonklammer

isquirrel said:


> Had both sold the HE-1000, kept the Abyss, enough said !


 
 Thanks for that! Do you mind posting your comparison from memory, or message me it?
  
 Trying to convince myself of the crazy price tag. $5k+ is steep.


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> Thanks for that! Do you mind posting your comparison from memory, or message me it?
> 
> Trying to convince myself of the crazy price tag. $5k+ is steep.




You might find this thread interesting.

If you don't need the extra cable adapters and leather carry case you can get the Abyss Lite package for $4495. The headphone itself is the same in both cases.


----------



## draytonklammer

torq said:


> You might find this thread interesting.
> 
> If you don't need the extra cable adapters and leather carry case you can get the Abyss Lite package for $4495. The headphone itself is the same in both cases.


 
 I'll have to either go for that, or look for a used one. Will make it a bit easier on me.
  
 I already think the LCD-4 will not be for me considering most people I have heard from like the HEK better.
  
 I love the HEK, but I have read every page of this thread and found that the Abyss would be my weapon of choice if it holds up to what everyone says about it.


----------



## Kiats

draytonklammer said:


> I'll have to either go for that, or look for a used one. Will make it a bit easier on me.
> 
> I already think the LCD-4 will not be for me considering most people I have heard from like the HEK better.
> 
> I love the HEK, but I have read every page of this thread and found that the Abyss would be my weapon of choice if it holds up to what everyone says about it.




I can't advise on the Abyss vs the HE1000 cos I've kept both.  But absolutely agree on the LCD4.


----------



## mulder01

isquirrel said:


> Had both sold the HE-1000, kept the Abyss, enough said


 
  
 I thought it was the other way around!
 I can't keep up


----------



## draytonklammer

So far a lot of pointers that seem to think I should get an Abyss over the HEK.
  
 Wish I had a way to try them before buying that didn't cost much more than shipping.


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> So far a lot of pointers that seem to think I should get an Abyss over the HEK.
> 
> Wish I had a way to try them before buying that didn't cost much more than shipping.




Google "The Cable Company" and "Headphone Lending Library".


----------



## draytonklammer

torq said:


> Google "The Cable Company" and "Headphone Lending Library".


 
 I've looked into them, but it's not worth hundreds for me to test.
  
 If I dislike them I can sell them for about the same as if I were to try them.


----------



## yates7592

Buy a second hand pair. If you don't like them you won't lose out selling them on.


----------



## draytonklammer

Hoping to finish selling all of my old headphones and HEK to give the Abyss a go.
  
 From what people say I will not regret it.


----------



## potkettleblack

draytonklammer said:


> Hoping to finish selling all of my old headphones and HEK to give the Abyss a go.
> 
> From what people say I will not regret it.


 

 Be sure to give them more time than you would other headphones to evaluate. My friend listened to mine last night and changed the fit settings. I put them on today and they did not sound great at all. Bass was very thumpy and the treble was splashy and spiky.
  
 I adjusted them a few times.. and well..  holy s*** , they sound incredible again.
  
 This headphone demands more attention than Lady Gaga.
  
 About 3 weeks in and zero regrets. I look forward to listening to them every day.


----------



## nassq8

draytonklammer said:


> I'll have to either go for that, or look for a used one. Will make it a bit easier on me.
> 
> I already think the LCD-4 will not be for me considering most people I have heard from like the HEK better.
> 
> I love the HEK, but I have read every page of this thread and found that the Abyss would be my weapon of choice if it holds up to what everyone says about it.


 
  
  
 Best advice, check it out first if possible. 
  
 Abyss and HEK  both are champs for me. However, HEK losses every chance to stand up against Abyss within every area except comfort as long as it fits right and chained down with the right rigs with serious power. Otherwise, Abyss will show you her ugly face. Take these examples based on my *sooo personal experience*:
  
 M11 : I do not know why Abyss hates the amp section of M11, this  bloody high!
  
 D100 Mk2 > EF6: What a wonderful and relaxing match, but they tame Abyss a little  bit more than needed, make it less engaging and slower
  
 M11 Dac > iTube >  Burson Soloist: This chain gives the best experience of Abyss for me. Untouchable bass and soundstage (unbelievable!), thicker but robust mid and beautiful high. Sure a distortion increase in such chain, but luckily I do not possess bat ears.
  
 Abyss provides a shockingly orchestral experience with almost hart-attack effects if treated right, dwarfing the already great HEK's sound presentation in comparison.   However, HEK is a keeper for me also for its comfort, fast fit and beautiful sound mostly in soothing smooth Jazz pieces.


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> I've looked into them, but it's not worth hundreds for me to test.
> 
> If I dislike them I can sell them for about the same as if I were to try them.




It only costs you shipping unless you ultimately don't buy any of the headphones you try from them.

The deposit is applied in full to ANY purchase you make there (doesn't have to be for headphones).


----------



## draytonklammer

nassq8 said:


> Best advice, check it out first if possible.
> 
> Abyss and HEK  both are champs for me. However, HEK losses every chance to stand up against Abyss within every area except comfort as long as it fits right and chained down with the right rigs with serious power. Otherwise, Abyss will show you her ugly face. Take these examples based on my *sooo personal experience*:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for posting this, gives me more of the reason I would like to hear to get the Abyss.
  
 I think based on what I have heard (and the genres I listen to) the Abyss will be ahead of the HEK.
  
 Comfort I am not super worried about, I have worn worse I am sure.
  
 I will be using a Moon Neo 430HAD with the Abyss.


----------



## mulder01

^ You're still keen even despite the likely weight issues?

Don't get me wrong, I love the abyss and think the HEK is comparatively 'meh' (although still very good), but if you can't bear to wear them, then you can't enjoy the music... Maybe attach a small metal weight to your HEK to equal the weight of the abyss and see how your neck holds up over a few days...? It will be an expensive exercise if you buy HEK + cables, then sell, then buy abyss, then sell, then buy HEK again...


----------



## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> ^ You're still keen even despite the likely weight issues?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I love the abyss and think the HEK is comparatively 'meh' (although still very good), but if you can't bear to wear them, then you can't enjoy the music... Maybe attach a small metal weight to your HEK to equal the weight of the abyss and see how your neck holds up over a few days...? It will be an expensive exercise if you buy HEK + cables, then sell, then buy abyss, then sell, then buy HEK again...


 
 I've worn worse luckily and used to only use the Audeze lineup (specifically the LCD-X)
  
 It wasn't too bad.


----------



## madcat

isquirrel said:


> Had both sold the HE-1000, kept the Abyss, enough said !


 
  
 May I ask why? I'm curious because I'm interesting in HE-1000 as well as Abyss.


----------



## potkettleblack

Found a fit tonight that really excelled in every aspect (sound wise), and to top it off this is the first time the Abyss has disappeared on my head for just over 3 hours. I have no idea how I've managed this, as up until now I've had issues with the headband creating a hotspot after about an hour.
  
 The problem I have now is that I daren't change the setting and I can't show them off at work this week incase the melon head that sits at my desk alters the fitting.
  
 Been listening to the following classical recordings and they sound absolutely stunning:
  
  
 http://www.hdtracks.co.uk/bellezza-crudel-vivaldi
  
 http://www.hdtracks.co.uk/corelli-telemann-leclair-handel-albicastro-violin-sonatas


----------



## Hi-Phi

Impatiently waiting for my Abyss order to arrive! 

Have a question for you guys: What's your favorite amp pairing with the Abyss? I currently have a Ray Samuels Audio Darkstar which is up for sale -- I'm looking to find a new amp for the incoming Abyss. Cheers!


----------



## Stereolab42

hi-phi said:


> Impatiently waiting for my Abyss order to arrive!
> 
> Have a question for you guys: What's your favorite amp pairing with the Abyss? I currently have a Ray Samuels Audio Darkstar which is up for sale -- I'm looking to find a new amp for the incoming Abyss. Cheers!


 
  
 There's a reason Woo Audio demos their stuff with the Abyss 24/7.


----------



## mulder01

stereolab42 said:


> There's a reason Woo Audio demos their stuff with the Abyss 24/7.


 
  
 TWO WA5's?
 In your opinion, how much additional do you need to spend on tubes for a WA5 to get it sounding it's best?


----------



## Stereolab42

mulder01 said:


> TWO WA5's?
> In your opinion, how much additional do you need to spend on tubes for a WA5 to get it sounding it's best?


 
  
 Well, technically one of them is a WA5-LE.  But I wish more people would ask this question before buying a WA5... the answer is maybe $2000 to get the most out of the system (top-end 300B tubes plus great drivers and rectifiers). On the Woo thread we can get you setup.


----------



## Hi-Phi

I like the idea of having a tube amp, but for someone who has never had one.... How long do the tubes last? I would consider swapping out my dark star for a WA5 LE.


----------



## Torq

hi-phi said:


> I like the idea of having a tube amp, but for someone who has never had one.... How long do the tubes last? I would consider swapping out my dark star for a WA5 LE.




My WA5 LE (with the parts upgrade package) is shipping this week (tomorrow from what I was told), so you're welcome to come listen to it with my Abyss. You can compare it side by side with my Ragnarok as well.

Tubes are good for about ~5000 hours typically (does depend on the tube type and how it is employed to some degree) ... with some rated for 9-10,000 and I've seen claims of 20,000 hours for some NOS WE 300B. But generally somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 hours seems to be typical.

Some small signal tubes may go for several times that ... when operated conservatively.


----------



## draytonklammer

potkettleblack said:


> Found a fit tonight that really excelled in every aspect (sound wise), and to top it off this is the first time the Abyss has disappeared on my head for just over 3 hours. I have no idea how I've managed this, as up until now I've had issues with the headband creating a hotspot after about an hour.
> 
> The problem I have now is that I daren't change the setting and I can't show them off at work this week incase the melon head that sits at my desk alters the fitting.
> 
> ...


 
 What are the chances you could lend me your opinion on the Abyss sound? Have you by chance been able to compare it to a HEK or LCD-4?


----------



## Stereolab42

potkettleblack said:


> Found a fit tonight that really excelled in every aspect (sound wise), and to top it off this is the first time the Abyss has disappeared on my head for just over 3 hours. I have no idea how I've managed this, as up until now I've had issues with the headband creating a hotspot after about an hour.
> 
> The problem I have now is that I daren't change the setting and I can't show them off at work this week incase the melon head that sits at my desk alters the fitting.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the recs... I bought that Vivaldi and am listening to it now... the imaging on the Abyss is just scary. I don't know where they placed the mic in this recording but I think can I distinguish the relative locations of each of the harpsichord strings. I also got these two hires recordings but haven't heard them yet:
  
http://www.hdtracks.com/classica-espanola 
http://www.hdtracks.com/lso-haitink-beethoven-symphony-no-9-choral


----------



## Nik

Goldmund THA2, fantastic with Abyss...


----------



## DocD

My Abyss arrived today! 

Driving them with a Primaluna Dialogue Integrated HP amp and love the sound. Waiting for Norne to send me some cables to connect to the speaker taps of the amp but even on the SE out it sounds great. Will tube roll when those arrive - stock EL34 for now. 

Using Chord Hugo as source but will look at other options for DACs. 

Listened to HD800, HD800S, LCD4, HE1000, PS1000e and Abyss in good listening conditions off a Moon 430HA and Viva 845 with Yggy as source before committing - happy with my choice! 

PS - A2A in Melbourne is such a great Aussie resource - thanks to the guys for letting me play with their equipment for most of the day.


----------



## deuter

docd said:


> My Abyss arrived today!
> 
> Driving them with a Primaluna Dialogue Integrated HP amp and love the sound. Waiting for Norne to send me some cables to connect to the speaker taps of the amp but even on the SE out it sounds great. Will tube roll when those arrive - stock EL34 for now.
> 
> ...



Good on you, seems like mostly Aussies hang around the Abyss thread. Extremely popular down under. Should say the A2A guys are doing a fine job selling these.


----------



## DocD

Think the Abyss sell themselves by sounding fantastic. 

But actually for us Aussies it is the Mad Max look...


----------



## Stereolab42

I got my new Abyss cables in today... Charleston Cable Company (C3) UP-OCC:
  
 http://www.c3audio.com/store/c11/UP-OCC.html
  
 I'd gotten them before for my Audeze so I knew what to expect -- a thick, well-built cable covered in super-strong fabric. They are shorter and more flexible than stock, which is why I bought them. (They were built and shipped in a few days... why people accept waiting 2-6 months for a cable is beyond me.) I spent an hour comparing them to stock and could not detect a sonic difference. Not to say there isn't one, but if there is, it's not obvious. I'm not an objectivist and I'm pretty sure I've heard differences between cables in other headphones, so I have no argument with people spending what they want here. The only thing this tells me is that both JPS and Chris at C3 make great-sounding cables. Heck, if I had the money I would have gotten the Superconductors just to remove all doubt that I have the best.
  
 Also, my head is narrow so I've been having trouble with the headphones sitting too low, even after bending the arms in. I contacted Joe and he's sending me a strap with shorter elastic so they will sit higher... I've already simulated this by putting some cloth between the strap and the band and it's much more comfortable that way.


----------



## Yoga

draytonklammer said:


> ….


 
  
 I owned the HEK and Abyss at the same time. The HEK sounded flat and lifeless in comparison. No dynamic range! No contest :¬)
  
 Then again, _all_ other headphones seem flat to me now. The Abyss are a different experience and sound type entirely, much more speaker-esque. I have an expensive studio setup (for music production), and the Abyss are still always enjoyed.
  
 FYI Mulder: isquirrel sold his Abyss in favour of the HEK for some months, then returned to the Abyss more recently.


----------



## Yoga

docd said:


> My Abyss arrived today!
> 
> Driving them with a Primaluna Dialogue Integrated HP amp and love the sound. Waiting for Norne to send me some cables to connect to the speaker taps of the amp but even on the SE out it sounds great. Will tube roll when those arrive - stock EL34 for now.
> 
> ...


 

 A nice comparison. Out of interest, what did you think of the 430HA vs Viva 845?


----------



## draytonklammer

yoga said:


> I owned the HEK and Abyss at the same time. The HEK sounded flat and lifeless in comparison. No dynamic range! No contest :¬)
> 
> Then again, _all_ other headphones seem flat to me now. The Abyss are a different experience and sound type entirely, much more speaker-esque. I have an expensive studio setup (for music production), and the Abyss are still always enjoyed.
> 
> FYI Mulder: isquirrel sold his Abyss in favour of the HEK for some months, then returned to the Abyss more recently.


 
 Good to know, this excites me!


----------



## Nik




----------



## galacticsoap

@draytonklammer - Mate I'll just echo everyone else's thoughts re: the Abyss vs HEK. I too owned both. I bought the HEK within weeks of purchasing the Abyss but tellingly despite being quickly won over by the HEK's musicality when I first heard them, upon getting home they were never really the first headphones I reached for. It was always the Abyss: as such I recently sold the HEK. To my mind the Abyss outperforms the HEK when it comes to pure dynamics: high frequency extension is superior by way of control and resolution, compared to the Abyss I found the HEK rolled-off up top. Mid-bass and sub-bass performance also superior - while the HEK was able to display impressive sub-bass reach the Abyss does so to only with the addition of slam and impact. For me sound stage is pretty much on par for both headphones. I listen to a lot of electronica which requires pitch black backgrounds, outstanding PRAT, and exceptional resolution to sound its best. The Abyss brings all of those things to the table in spades.


----------



## Nik




----------



## Nik




----------



## Nik

No story... Abyss is the king, no doubt!


----------



## draytonklammer

galacticsoap said:


> @draytonklammer - Mate I'll just echo everyone else's thoughts re: the Abyss vs HEK. I too owned both. I bought the HEK within weeks of purchasing the Abyss but tellingly despite being quickly won over by the HEK's musicality when I first heard them, upon getting home they were never really the first headphones I reached for. It was always the Abyss: as such I recently sold the HEK. To my mind the Abyss outperforms the HEK when it comes to pure dynamics: high frequency extension is superior by way of control and resolution, compared to the Abyss I found the HEK rolled-off up top. Mid-bass and sub-bass performance also superior - while the HEK was able to display impressive sub-bass reach the Abyss does so to only with the addition of slam and impact. For me sound stage is pretty much on par for both headphones. I listen to a lot of electronica which requires pitch black backgrounds, outstanding PRAT, and exceptional resolution to sound its best. The Abyss brings all of those things to the table in spades.


 
 Thank you for this!
  
 Now to sell my HEK...


----------



## jhljhl

nik said:


> No story... Abyss is the king, no doubt!


 
  
  
 For hard rock, rap, EDM and bass heavy music the abyss is the more dynamic headphone. But for classical and jazz I think I prefer the HEK. However I am not making a direct comparison on hand.


----------



## draytonklammer

jhljhl said:


> For hard rock, rap, EDM and bass heavy music the abyss is the more dynamic headphone. But for classical and jazz I think I prefer the HEK. However I am not making a direct comparison on hand.


 
 How much of a difference between the HEK and Abyss is there for those genres?


----------



## potkettleblack

draytonklammer said:


> How much of a difference between the HEK and Abyss is there for those genres?


Mate. What are you waiting for?


----------



## draytonklammer

Waiting for my current stuff to sell. 

The second my HEK sells I can get the Abyss.


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> Waiting for my current stuff to sell.
> 
> The second my HEK sells I can get the Abyss.




There seems to have been a surge of Abyss orders lately. I was lucky ... my set was in-stock and I got them the next day. A couple of friends have since ordered theirs and are in the midst of multi-week waits. Could just be one dealer ... but interest seems a lot higher now than it was even a couple or three months ago!


----------



## draytonklammer

Just wish I could get my stuff sold.


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> Just wish I could get my stuff sold.


 
  
 I feel for you - living life without an abyss
  
 The struggle is real


----------



## deuter

draytonklammer said:


> Just wish I could get my stuff sold.[/quote
> Tough market right now, unless you are willing to give 50% off retail.


----------



## nassq8

draytonklammer said:


> Just wish I could get my stuff sold.



 


While you are waiting, just enjoy one of the world-class HPs on hand, the HEK . It's second to Abyss, no doubt for me


----------



## Beolab

Some favorite tracks to show of the Abyss signature sound is 
Yello : Friday Smile 
https://tidal.com/track/3117491

And 
Malia : Turners's Ship
https://tidal.com/track/25029828

PANG! :
https://tidal.com/track/54427672

These tracks showing of the great depht / sparkle detail / dynamic capabilities of Abyss .


----------



## Stereolab42

torq said:


> There seems to have been a surge of Abyss orders lately. I was lucky ... my set was in-stock and I got them the next day. A couple of friends have since ordered theirs and are in the midst of multi-week waits. Could just be one dealer ... but interest seems a lot higher now than it was even a couple or three months ago!


 
  
 I got the last unit in stock at AudioVision SF a week and a half ago. I think people who have been on the sidelines for whatever reason -- loyal to other brands, not a fan of the styling, whatever -- are taking the plunge. Especially after seeing that the LCD-4 and HEK are not Abyss-killers.


----------



## Trance_Gott

There is no other headphone on this planet like Abyss. Such dynamically, such slam, openess and soundstage. All headphones and i know nearly all loose clearly in the last two areas! 
When the Abyss had the mids and highs of my SR009 OMG!!!
But you cannot have all in one headphone imo.


----------



## dBel84

I know i don't post often but at this point i listen to the Abyss almost exclusively. I would agree that it is like no other. 

..dB


----------



## draytonklammer

Anyone have Abyss vs. LCD-4 comparisons?


----------



## Yoga

draytonklammer said:


> Anyone have Abyss vs. LCD-4 comparisons?


 
  
@isquirrel has used both, a busy man but may be able to help.


----------



## isquirrel

yoga said:


> @isquirrel has used both, a busy man but may be able to help.


 

 I have been in touch with Drayton via PM, these are my thoughts:
  
 I listen to the LCD-4 more, but I impress upon you, the most important aspect of putting a system together and vital to achieving good sound is system synergy, so even though you may have the best headphone for your tastes if your amp does not have good synergy with it, you will not find that to be a good solution musically. This why you need to listen to the LCD-4 and the Abyss on your setup to determine which is the better for you instead of relying on the thoughts of others. I have done this before many times and it is almost always a mistake. Only you can know your prefences, there is no such thing as right or wrong, its about what you enjoy listening to. It is not possible to communicate this to another unless it is in a very broad brush way. These are not cheap headphones you are investing in so I cannot stress this enough.


----------



## Yoga

isquirrel said:


> I have been in touch with Drayton via PM, these are my thoughts:
> 
> I listen to the LCD-4 more, but I impress upon you, the most important aspect of putting a system together and vital to achieving good sound is system synergy, so even though you may have the best headphone for your tastes if your amp does not have good synergy with it, you will not find that to be a good solution musically. This why you need to listen to the LCD-4 and the Abyss on your setup to determine which is the better for you instead of relying on the thoughts of others. I have done this before many times and it is almost always a mistake. Only you can know your prefences, there is no such thing as right or wrong, its about what you enjoy listening to. It is not possible to communicate this to another unless it is in a very broad brush way. These are not cheap headphones you are investing in so I cannot stress this enough.


 
  
 Well said! Many times preconceived ideas (formulated from forums/research) are blown out of the water upon using one's own ears. That includes the setup of my production studio, ended up going an entirely different route than planned.
  
 In terms of Synergy, I would posit the amp is incredibly important. More so than the DAC. The Moon 600i changed the sound signature (for the better) more than DAC changes/testing (£90 NuForce (temporary), £5000 Lumin A1 and £8000 MSB Analogue). The treble and mids, which were lacking with the Abyss before in terms of emotivity, suddenly appeared. A revelation for me personally!


----------



## Xecuter

I did a comparison on reddit. Under *store audition *conditions. Using the Egoista and Moon 430HA.
 Link to thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/4cifpm/audition_ramblings_with_hd800s_lcd4_he1k_and/
  
  


Spoiler: Huge ass review comparing HE1K, LCD-4, HD800S and Abyss



Hi guys I have some impressions/thoughts to share!
  
 When I bought the Abyss the lcd-4 and HD800S were not available to audition, so I wanted to spend some time confirming I did not make a very expensive mistake.
  
 Fortunately I am still happy.
  
 The Headphones I tested were using one source which was an AK240 mostly FLAC. Using a metrum hex as the DAC through optical, the Amps we used for testing was the Moon 430HA (stand alone amp) and the Egoista tube amp by Viva Audio (a $16kAUD space heater) with stock tubes.
  
 The original HD800 was not for me, it was harsh and sibilant and I really, really didn't like it. So I was hoping the HD800S would be a very different headphone, and it is.
  
 HD800S: very forward presentation, punchy and authoritative with the same great sound stage and imaging. Still a bit sibilant sounding for me, with tshh'' being a bit too emphasized, bass was distorting in the low ranges. Probably needs some mods to get it sounding more 'right'. As usual with Sennheiser, they were very comfortable This is a very different headphone to hd800, I can see this being very popular but hardcore hd800/stax 009 users won't like the distorted bass and slightly less impressive sound stage and imaging than the original. 
  
 Audeze Lcd-4: Still the Audeze house sound. A bit too laid back for me still, However much more detailed and refined than other Audeze phones. Mid range is still not right. they are a bit soft and lack attack. Brush strokes, guitar strumming not as articulated and defined as the he1k. I don't like laid back headphones I prefer a more upfront, forward and engaging listen. However this sound is very easy to listen to, the detail is still excellent and this is a very excellent headphone. I think with exceptional upstream gear you would have a detailed enjoyable listen which would never get tiring.
  
 Hifiman He1000: Smooth but energetic, great bass extension, fairly forward presentation. My last complaint with the he1k was that it was a bit flat and lifeless from the amps I had heard it with previously (rag, vio281, Lau), This time it was no longer flat with the moon and Egoista. I think the he1k prefers very aggressive amping to get good performance otherwise it comes up a bit soft in the mid range. I think you need to spend some serious money on an amp to get this thing to come to life. There is some variation reported between units, maybe the first one I had was a lemon?
  
 I like this headphone a lot however I think pairing it would be tricky. I think a powerful, neutral SS with a good DAC would be a good combo and as such I preferred the moon to the Egoista which was very coloured sounding.
  
 Abyss: powerful, engaging, more upfront than he1k and lcd-4 Bass extension is still deepest and the sub bass is on another level compared to the th900 or he560, mids are rolled off and more subtle than he1k and hd800s but still seem more articulate and upfront compared to the LCD-4, highs are tame but extend well with female vocals.
  
 I guess I know what the Abyss sounds like and wanted to know what it sounded like out of some more expensive/different topography amps. The Moon is smooth, musical and fairly detailed it paired well with the abyss. Dare I say it had an edge over my Rag as far as engagement and musicality particularly with the midrange.
  
 The Egoista was good with the Abyss as well, but this amp is very coloured and it shows. If you want a very tubey coloured sounding amp you can probably achieve this for a lot cheaper. I have read a lot of reviews about this amp because I was looking to move to a EC studio or this thing, however, I really preferred the Moon as it was more representative of the music I was very familiar with. The Egoista is trying to be Euphonic sounding, it is really crazy expensive audio jewellery.
  
 Side note: a much more thinner, detailed DAC like the Auralic Vega may have been a better pairing with the VIVA Egoista.
  
 Moon 430HA neo: A very neutral amp with a slight smoothness, still musical but not as articulated as other SS such as gsx-mk ii or rag which are more clinical, sterile but pertain to better detail with less musicality.
  
 Viva Egoista: Coloured tube amp that runs hot as hell. Sound is smooth, detailed, attack and decay were good but the amp gave an unnatural tibre to the music. Furthermore for all its glamour it looks a bit plasticy and tacky in the flesh. The knobs on the front are literally made of plastic and feel like a childs toy, I much prefer the knobs on my luxman, sonic frontiers, rag all feel heavy and sturdy and will last a life time.
  
 Some people like coloured tube amps or even very coloured SS amps like the luxman or Eddie Current Black widow. I have always preferred Neutral amps and either used a tube filter or tube based dac to tailor the sound.
  
 What I have learnt is you can't have your cake and eat it. If you pair a coloured headphone like the abyss with a coloured tube amp you start to lose a lot of detail. So you think OK lets be as neutral as possible and get a really neutral DAC/AMP to pair with the headphone then the headphone starts to lose it's musicality and sound a bit harsh thin.
  
 That's why I think you really need to test a lot of stuff to find your endgame.
  
 Currently I have a 10 tube buffer to make the rag less neutral and clinical sounding. Maybe the Moon will do a better job but I'm worried it will smooth over the detail I've grown accustomed to, so I would need to switch to a different DAC.
  
 I don't think I will move to the Moon 430HA after this audition, it feels like a sideways step. Eddie current are working on a new tube Amp which I will most likely buy when it is released mid year.


----------



## Yoga

Interesting @Xecuter, thanks.


----------



## Xecuter

No worries Yoga, your comments have helped me a lot over the years.


----------



## Yoga

xecuter said:


> No worries Yoga, your comments have helped me a lot over the years.


 

 Glad that some of my ramblings were useful :¬)
  
 If you're talking of the EC Studio - that should be a cracking amp.


----------



## Xecuter

I was tempted by the EC Studio, might try the junior instead and if I want more go for the studio. I don't like not buying a flagship though!


----------



## HighNFidelity

Great comparisons Xecutor!
Which, if I may ask, "10 tube tube buffer" are you feeding your Rag?





xecuter said:


> I did a comparison on reddit. Under *store audition* conditions. Using the Egoista and Moon 430HA.
> Link to thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/4cifpm/audition_ramblings_with_hd800s_lcd4_he1k_and/
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Yoga

xecuter said:


> I was tempted by the EC Studio, might try the junior instead and if I want more go for the studio. I don't like not buying a flagship though!


 

 "The poor man pays twice" :¬)


----------



## Xecuter

HighNFidelity: Which, if I may ask, "10 tube tube buffer" are you feeding your Rag? 





>


 
 I'm using a NOS R2R DAC with two tubes, then into my Sonic Frontiers SFL-2 pre amp which has 8 tubes.


----------



## draytonklammer

Gave these cans a try against the LCD-4 and found myself going back to the LCD-4.
  
 Apparently a rare opinion.


----------



## mulder01

Lucky you listened to them for yourself!
  
 I don't think it's a rare opinion at all - there is a pretty big LCD4 thread.  
  
 It seems like they do tend to break easy though...


----------



## potkettleblack

draytonklammer said:


> Gave these cans a try against the LCD-4 and found myself going back to the LCD-4.
> 
> Apparently a rare opinion.


A rare opinion on this thread and maybe in general - but an opinion that has no bearing on your tastes. Make the right decision and buy what makes you the happiest.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

draytonklammer said:


> Gave these cans a try against the LCD-4 and found myself going back to the LCD-4.
> 
> Apparently a rare opinion.


 
  
  
 The LCD4's lasted the entire audition without one channel giving out?  It must have been a short audition.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
 Perhaps if you spent more time with them, your opinion would change. 
  
 I kid of course.  Buy what makes YOU smile and forget public opinion.


----------



## draytonklammer

bigfatpaulie said:


> The LCD4's lasted the entire audition without one channel giving out?  It must have been a short audition.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I give the Abyss credit where it's due, that's for sure, but I think for my taste the LCD-4 is a step up.
  
 I am slightly worried about driver failure, but the new drivers seem to be holding up without any issues. Currently at about hour 15 or so.


----------



## isquirrel

bigfatpaulie said:


> The LCD4's lasted the entire audition without one channel giving out?  It must have been a short audition.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Had mine on daily use since December, version 1's - no issues.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Dave Hanson from enjoythemusic.com wrote a kind review of the AB-1266. See top of the reviews here...
http://www.abyss-headphones.com/abyss_reviews.html


----------



## Kiats

Thanks for bringing it to our attention, Joe. Very well written piece that resonates with me. As I sit here listening to my newest Mandopop album from Della Ding Dang on the Abyss equipped with the Superconductor cables. Absolutely gorgeous. No better way to spend a quiet Saturday evening.


----------



## Xecuter

I got my Abyss about a week ago. This review should be the instruction manual. I haven't even tried adjusting the headband!
  
 Got the cups just hovering over my ears now and the sound is ******* incredible. I might have to top up my scotch, it's going to be a long night...
  
 How did you make this marvellous strange thing Joe?!


----------



## ufospls2

Moving away from my regular electronic listening, this is bloody fantastic with the abyss.


----------



## nassq8

@ufospls2
  
 Nice!  Best 6 years of my life were spent in Seattle and the  "beautiful" Olympia during my undergraduate study there. People there are crazy about Jazz music.
  
 Here is a piece (a fellow head-fier posted it here somewhere), well recorded and performed, showing what Abyss is capable of (stunning!):
  

  
 (You can download it FLAC)


----------



## potkettleblack

Been listening to my HD800S now for about an hour. Remarkable headphone. A lot more musical than the original 800.
  
 Compared to my AB-1266 they have a touch more detail. When I say a touch - if the AB was 8.5/10 then these are a 9. I believe the AB's sense of sparkle can detract from the from detail retrieval a little bit.
  
 The sense of space is not on par with the AB.
  
 The Imaging: Instrument separation, focus on instruments and placement of instruments/vocals, is ahead of the AB. Again not by a lot but maybe 8.0/10 compared to 9/10.
  
*BUT *These are not on par with the AB-1266.
  
 Sincerely... They just aren't.They are not as musical.. By quite a big gap. They don't have the bass of the AB. That almost makes me want to snigger - like they were ever in contention lol. The speed of AB is far greater. The explosiveness and impact of the AB is *eons* better. 
  
 I've said this since the day of purchase. The AB's sound like an evil twin brother to the 009. They easily play in the same leagues - and would still be my overall preference.
  
 The clarity and 'realness' I get from the AB is not rivalled by the 800S. In fact I think it's a bit of an unfair matchup. I'm not a fan of her personally, and always thought she was a bit of a witch with an attitude - but Amy Winehouse's voice was spectacular. When I play 'Valerie' on the HD800S, I get impressed.
  
 When I play it on the AB-1266.. I get chills.
  
 All of this being said, I'm very happy with my purchase, and a proud owner of what I consider to be the best dynamic headphone available, and fantastic achievement for Sennheiser.
  
 I sold my HD650'S and HD700's for the 800S. They are now my every day headphones (my momentums are for hoovering) and I am chuffed to bits. These were an arguably pointless, over-the-top buy - but I couldn't help myself.
  
 I will use them for podcasts, movies, gaming (oh boy do they sound good with gaming) and everyday casual music listening. 
  
 They will be my every day Mercedes. No stress. No ordeal. Easy to just throw on (I find the AB a little heavy for every day use sometimes). 
  
 I will essentially be driving a luxury car to visit the grocery store - and I will love every minute of it.
  
 But  the AB-1266..
  
 The AB-1266  will be my Lamborghini.
  
 At the weekends I will put it on - glance at my partially silver hair in the wing mirror - realise that the days of being with 18 year olds are [almost] gone. Lean back - hit the play button on a random drum and bass album - and just have a HELL of a good time.


----------



## Nik

Good comparison... But I can't believe that the 800s has more details...


----------



## potkettleblack

I - just like the rest of you - have songs I know VERY well. If I play these songs and pick up on things I've never really noticed before - something needs to be said. I had this happen a couple of times tonight. To me - credit where is credit due. Again - this may be attributed to distraction or other characteristics the Abyss has. Sometimes I forget everything else for moments because of the bass or general 'thunder' the AB can produce. 

The 800S is a lot more delicate in its presentation. A byproduct of that could be more focus on other things.

It is what it is.


----------



## Torq

nik said:


> Good comparison... But I can't believe that the 800s has more details...


 
  
 I find that my Abyss has more "apparent" detail, but my HD800S wins on _actual _detail/resolution.
  
 Not sure if it's down to there being a little haze/noise in the treble on the Abyss, which does give a very enjoyable tinkly/sparkly effect to the upper registers - possibly at the cost of a small amount of resolution (and hence detail), or what ... but I hear pretty much the same thing.  It's not a huge difference, but I find it's pretty consistent across a range of recordings.
  
 I also create music myself, and I know how that's supposed to sound and, sometimes, the AB-1266 just seems to add, or emphasize, a _little _sparkle that isn't _quite _there in the source.  You'd never know unless you were intimately familiar with the source music and/or you compared it back to back.  I don't find it detracts from the music (though I wouldn't use them to mix with), in fact its a nice effect, but it's not, strictly speaking, accurate.
  
 I find the Abyss a much more engaging, visceral, exciting, fun and musical listen than the HD800S, and it's capable of things the Sennheisers can't touch, but for detail, for me, it's the only thing the Abyss is definitely a *tiny *bit behind on.  Soundstage is close ... depends on exactly how I have the Abyss positioned, but in general it's either a tie or a nod to the HD800S.  In everything else ... the AB-1266 wins for me.


----------



## Nik

I have the HD 800 and to my ears they do not have nothing more than my Abyss... so, the 800s has more details than the sister 800?


----------



## potkettleblack

nik said:


> I have the HD 800 and to my ears they do not have nothing more than my Abyss... so, the 800s has more details than the sister 800?


Is this where everyone jumps and says 'No! No way it is more detailed!' And you say 'So the Abyss is better than the 800S in all aspects as well!'

Pull the other one, Nik.

I've already said that to me the Abyss is a superior headphone. Stop being so protective.


----------



## Nik

I don't not know the new 800 S, but I know very well the 800 that I own... And they do not have more details than the Abyss, point. I don't know if the Abyss is the best cans on the world, but sure I prefer the Abyss to the Sennheiser...


----------



## Torq

nik said:


> I have the HD 800 and to my ears they do not have nothing more than my Abyss... so, the 800s has more details than the sister 800?


 
  
 Hard to say, since I don't have the regular HD800 in my collection and have only listened to it as part of various other comparisons.
  
 It wouldn't surprise me if the resonance around 6 KHz in the HD800 (which is fixed in the HD800S) had the effect of obscuring details that are then audible in the HD800S.  Nor, looking at the harmonic products, would I be stunned if the HD800S being a bit cleaner meant there was less masking going on.  But in either case I doubt the difference is very large.
  
 I do know that @johnjen's modded HD800 reveal more detail than the stock ones, and one of those mods is aimed at fixing the same issue the HD800S does.
  
 For the purposes of listening to music for pleasure, I'd still currently rank things as Abyss > LCD-4 > HD800S, (and that is my personal high-end headphone lineup) but none of them are perfect and none of them are universally better than the others.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Stop by our exhibit at AXPONA next weekend and experience Abyss with WA5-LE.
  
 http://www.axpona.com/exhibitors.asp?s=woo%20audio


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Anyone want to talk audio I'll be there...


----------



## Kiats

joe skubinski said:


> Anyone want to talk audio I'll be there Friday and Saturday...




Sigh... Hope you will make it to the next Singapore CanJam, Joe. There would be plenty to talk about.


----------



## Nik




----------



## Nik




----------



## Nik

Arrived today the short headband elastic... 
Now the king of headphones fits perfectly on my head and on my heart... 
Thanks to Joe!!!


----------



## rdreyer

nik said:


> Arrived today the short headband elastic...
> Now the king of headphones fits perfectly on my head and on my heart...
> Thanks to Joe!!!


 

 Congratulations, I had the opposite problem that Joe solved by sending me a leather headband with longer elastics. The cups now drop to the perfect height for my wide head.
  
 Renaud


----------



## Torq

hifiguy528 said:


> Stop by our exhibit at AXPONA next weekend and experience Abyss with WA5-LE.


 
  
 Now that I have my WA5-LE ... I can completely understand why you demo these two together (both from Woo's and @Joe Skubinski perspectives).  Individually, with other gear, they both sound amazing (and my WA5-LE is fresh out of the box as of Wednesday).  Together they're in another world entirely!  Definite synergy and the total being more than the sum of its parts!
  
 Wish I could stop by just to say "thank you" in person for creating such wonderful musical tools, but this will have to do!  Maybe you'll both be at RMAF and I can do that then.


----------



## Stereolab42

nik said:


> Arrived today the short headband elastic...
> Now the king of headphones fits perfectly on my head and on my heart...
> Thanks to Joe!!!


 
  
 Cool, mine is coming today too. If there was someway to dynamically adjust that on all models I think it would go a long way towards alleviating fit concerns people have when demoing the Abyss. It's so much more comfortable with the pressure lifted off the top of your ears (which I'm currently doing with extra padding around the band).


----------



## Nik

Yeeesss, Abyss one of the most comfortable cans and THE best sound in the world...


----------



## Torq

Going back and forth with the Abyss and the LCD-4 on the WA5LE ... (changing settings as appropriate) ... I'm finding Woo/Abyss pairing put the Abyss even further ahead of the LCD-4 than I was finding with my Ragnarok.


----------



## isquirrel

torq said:


> Going back and forth with the Abyss and the LCD-4 on the WA5LE ... (changing settings as appropriate) ... I'm finding Woo/Abyss pairing put the Abyss even further ahead of the LCD-4 than I was finding with my Ragnarok.


 

 What setting's are you using please, if you don't mind sharing


----------



## isquirrel

nik said:


> Arrived today the short headband elastic...
> Now the king of headphones fits perfectly on my head and on my heart...
> Thanks to Joe!!!


 

 Joe kindly sent me the same thing a few months ago, it works very well, how are you finding yours Nik?
  
 A big thumbs up to Joe for superb customer support!


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Hope to see some of you at Axpona in Chicago this coming Friday and Saturday.

For those in Taiwan, our distributor PinCha Audio will be displaying the Abyss AB-1266 with upgraded JPS Labs Superconductor HP cable, running on the Woo Audio WA234 mono amps, wired with JPS Labs Aluminata cables, about as good as it gets as headphone listening goes.
http://kh-hiend.kje-event.com.tw


----------



## Torq

joe skubinski said:


> Hope to see some of you at Axpona in Chicago this coming Friday and Saturday.
> 
> For those in Taiwan, our distributor PinCha Audio will be displaying the Abyss AB-1266 with upgraded JPS Labs Superconductor HP cable, running on the Woo Audio WA234 mono amps, wired with JPS Labs Aluminata cables, about as good as it gets as headphone listening goes.
> http://kh-hiend.kje-event.com.tw


 

 Wish I could be there!
  
 I just got to this point:
  


 And now you're teasing me with the WA234 ... 
  
 Have a fantastic show!


----------



## Torq

isquirrel said:


> What setting's are you using please, if you don't mind sharing


 

 With the Abyss I have the "Level" on Hi, the "Impedance" on Low and "HP Power" on Hi ... and it sounds STUNNING.
  
 With the LCD-4, I have the "Level" on "Hi", the "Impedance" on Hi and "HP Power" I've switched between Hi and Lo and haven't settled on a preference there yet.


----------



## Xecuter

Rag vs Wa5? Even though the wa5 is nearly 5 times the price maxed out with decent tubes..


----------



## Torq

xecuter said:


> Rag vs Wa5? Even though the wa5 is nearly 5 times the price maxed out with decent tubes..


 
  
 Not really a "versus" situation.
  
 The Yggdrasil/Ragnarok will be staying in my office system.
  
 I need to choose a DAC for the WA5LE (which has the parts upgrade package, but is on stock tubes at the moment) and then it will move to my main music/listening room.  By default that'll be another Yggdrasil ... but I am auditioning the other interesting* high-end options before I buy that just in case there's something that's good enough to warrant the variety and increased cost. 
  
 (*Interesting, here, means DACs that aren't just stupidly expensive power-supply/clock arrangements coupled with a single <$50 off-the-shelf DAC chip).


----------



## Stereolab42

torq said:


> (*Interesting, here, means DACs that aren't just stupidly expensive power-supply/clock arrangements coupled with a single <$50 off-the-shelf DAC chip).


 
  
 I was going to buy an expensive laptop the other day, but couldn't justify spending so much on pretty aluminum and bleeding-edge batteries coupled with a single <$100 Intel chip. So I paid a guy to make me a $3000 CPU on an FPGA platform. It runs much slower and its accuracy gets better or worse from week-to-week depending on how drunk the programmer is the night before he pushes his latest firmware updates, but at least it's fashionable!


----------



## Torq

stereolab42 said:


> I was going to buy an expensive laptop the other day, but couldn't justify spending so much on pretty aluminum and bleeding-edge batteries coupled with a single <$100 Intel chip. So I paid a guy to make me a $3000 CPU on an FPGA platform. It runs much slower and its accuracy gets better or worse from week-to-week depending on how drunk the programmer is the night before he pushes his latest firmware updates, but at least it's fashionable!


 
  
 While I didn't bring it up at all, I think the ability to _potentially _improve the sound after the sale is a good one, _provided _you can move back to a prior version cleanly and easily. That's certainly been the case with the various filter-code releases Linn has made for their streamers.  Rarely such things aren't to my taste, very occasionally they're improvements, most of the time there's no audible difference I can discern, though the new features have been quite nice when they've shown up.
  
 I don't have an issue paying for a high-quality power supply or good clock implementations around any converter technology/implementation ... the only necessary justification is *if* the end result is obviously superior to the alternatives.  "Obviously superior" means that I don't have to do hours of A/B comparison to find an inconsequential _difference _that I can't immediately identify as an _improvement _that I am then only going to notice if I'm listening the way I do when auditioning gear.
  
 That was certainly the case when I bought my Linn Akurate DSM which, at the time, was easily the best sounding digital replay I had heard.  When I heard Yggdrasil, a good while later, it happened to beat the Linn quite handily and since then I haven't found anything I liked better.  BOTH of those units use off the shelf converter chips and then their own custom filter implementations (Linn via FPGA, Yggdrasil via DSP).
  
 Since I'm spending my money and, more importantly my time, on this process I'm going to focus them in areas that have led to the best outcomes, which for me, as of right now, has not been with DS chips with external clock or PSU options that cost more than the rest of the system and with which I cannot hear a difference.  I'm not saying they're bad, I'm not saying that there is no difference, I'm simply saying that I've not heard anything there that, for me, was an improvement over what I have.
  
 But it has nothing to do with fashion.


----------



## draytonklammer

Once again I am thinking about buying an Abyss alongside my LCD-4. Give them a very extended listen and sell the loser.


----------



## Xecuter

draytonklammer said:


> Once again I am thinking about buying an Abyss alongside my LCD-4. Give them a very extended listen and sell the loser.


 
 I think that is the only way to do it. The Abyss needs A LOT of fiddling to get it right. Even after spending serious time with them I find myself adjusting the width, height and cup position frequently.


----------



## draytonklammer

And by very extended I mean maybe a few weeks or so.
  
 I just feel like I am not using the potential of the Abyss yet to properly compare the two.


----------



## Xecuter

Give it a crack. You will only lose about 10% of the Abyss price if you buy the Lite for a decent price then sell it later.


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> Once again I am thinking about buying an Abyss alongside my LCD-4. Give them a very extended listen and sell the loser.


 
  
 I did a week long audition with the Abyss and HEK (would have had the LCD-4 in there as well, but couldn't get hold of one) and, despite trying very hard to give them equal head time, it didn't take very long to find that I was gravitating strongly towards the Abyss.  By the middle of the week I didn't want to listen to anything else.
  
 I think the signatures are different enough that it's not hard to justify having both.  If I was more enthusiastic about the build of the HEK I'd probably add a set of those anyway, since they're quite lovely to listen to.  But in reality I don't think they wouldn't get nearly use that the Abyss, LCD-4 and HD800S do (even that's slanted significantly towards the Abyss ... though that's down to my personal signature preference).
  


xecuter said:


> I think that is the only way to do it. The Abyss needs A LOT of fiddling to get it right. Even after spending serious time with them I find myself adjusting the width, height and cup position frequently.


 
  
 They're not the easiest things to get set up with initially.  I found that once I had things where I wanted them, tweaking them for different signatures was quick and easy and I can do it in a single motion, and by feel.  I don't generally adjust anything but how they are angled back-to-front, via the pivot on the frame, at this point which is mostly about fine-tuning sub-bass and imaging (both are wonderful in my "default" setting).


----------



## draytonklammer

I guess it's weird to think that I may end up liking up more than the LCD-4, I find the LCD-4 simply stunning.


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> I guess it's weird to think that I may end up liking up more than the LCD-4, I find the LCD-4 simply stunning.


 

 Like many things in life, you can have a favorite and still appreciate and desire others.
  
 I could be happy with one headphone ... but I'm happier with several.
  
 "Just because you're on a diet, doesn't mean you can't look at the menu."
  
 Which, for some reason, reminds me of a somewhat spacey friend of mine loudly exclaiming, "Just because I'm a vegetarian, doesn't mean I don't eat meat!"


----------



## draytonklammer

Although I do agree with that, economically I need to find the one for me.
  
 Right now I am extremely happy with the LCD-4, but am curious to give the Abyss a well deserved week or so.


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> Although I do agree with that, economically I need to find the one for me.
> 
> Right now I am extremely happy with the LCD-4, but am curious to give the Abyss a well deserved week or so.


 

 I can understand that.
  
 It's _much_ easier to get into the music when you're not half-wondering if American Express has a hitman looking for you.
  
 (I kid, entirely ... just part of a line I loved from a movie).


----------



## isquirrel

draytonklammer said:


> Although I do agree with that, economically I need to find the one for me.
> 
> Right now I am extremely happy with the LCD-4, but am curious to give the Abyss a well deserved week or so.


 

 Nothing wrong with that, and at least you will know, I put off buying the Abyss for about 6 months originally, I could't get over the weird feeling, but within a couple of weeks I had got used to it and as others have pointed out, the magic is really in the setup and later for me the cables.
  
 Things like the shorter headband made a huge difference as well as it stopped the pads from eating on top of my ears. You often see the manufacturers himself "Joe" on this forum and their support is the best in the industry by far. Its a good investment in a solid product.
  
 I will PM you soon.


----------



## Kiats

I have to agree on the top of the class engagement and proactive support from Joe.


----------



## draytonklammer

torq said:


> I can understand that.
> 
> It's _much_ easier to get into the music when you're not half-wondering if American Express has a hitman looking for you.
> 
> (I kid, entirely ... just part of a line I loved from a movie).




Ain't that the truth.


----------



## STR-1

I would be interested in views on whether the Abyss would pair well with the Chord Dave. My current headphone system is AK380/Dave/HE1000, and I also have the HD800. I've just tried the LCD-4 on loan for a week and might end up buying it even though it has an odd and exaggerated top end. But I returned it today as I wanted to hear the Abyss first before deciding. Thanks in advance for any thoughts.


----------



## zardon

str-1 said:


> I would be interested in views on whether the Abyss would pair well with the Chord Dave. My current headphone system is AK380/Dave/HE1000, and I also have the HD800. I've just tried the LCD-4 on loan for a week and might end up buying it even though it has an odd and exaggerated top end. But I returned it today as I wanted to hear the Abyss first before deciding. Thanks in advance for any thoughts.




Very interesting to read your observations. Ive found the lcd4 has a very sweet signature sound in regards to the high frequencies and is not at all exaggerated. Quite the reverse.The abyss 1266 i found can be a little 'hotter' depending on the amp. I havent spent much, if any time with the dave, just hugo and hugo tt and they can both handle the abyss 1266 very well.

I wrote this recently and it might be of interest http://www.kitguru.net/site-news/highlights2/zardon/flagship-headphone-amplifier-round-up/


----------



## STR-1

Zardon, thanks. I'm not very experienced in using hifi terms to describe what I am hearing and I don't have much if any technical knowledge that is relevant here but I suspect I was hearing the same as Tyll Hertsens described hearing in his recent Inner Fidelity review of the LCD-4, describing a dip in the mid high frequencies and a bump right at the top. I certainly didn't notice this in every track but it was there on occasion and and once or twice was slightly uncomfortable to listen to. With the Abyss I am hoping to hear the same weight and control at the bottom end andwarm rich handling of female vocals in the mid range that I heard with the LCD-4 but a better behaved treble. Cheers


----------



## zardon

str-1 said:


> Zardon, thanks. I'm not very experienced in using hifi terms to describe what I am hearing and I don't have much if any technical knowledge that is relevant here but I suspect I was hearing the same as Tyll Hertsens described hearing in his recent Inner Fidelity review of the LCD-4, describing a dip in the mid high frequencies and a bump right at the top. I certainly didn't notice this in every track but it was there on occasion and and once or twice was slightly uncomfortable to listen to. With the Abyss I am hoping to hear the same weight and control at the bottom end andwarm rich handling of female vocals in the mid range that I heard with the LCD-4 but a better behaved treble. Cheers




Let me know how you get on, curious to hear what you think of the abyss 1266. I found lcd 4 100 ohm exhibited a slight accentuation but the 200ohm version seemed much smoother in my tests.... I actually prefer the he1000 to both of them overall (comfort, sq, etc) with the luxman p700u (he1000 need a high quality amp to get the most from them).

Only pairing better to my ears is the bhse and stax 009. Thats the joys with this, we all hear differently and want different things.

Best of luck in your testing!


----------



## cladane

Hello the forum,
  


> Thats the joys with this, we all hear differently and want different things.


 
 Really true.
  
 The LCD4 are very well built cans and differ from the Audeze products line with their very good medium reproduction. High level rendering on l'Ariodante (Anne Sophie Mutter) or l'Orfeo (Jodi Savall).
  
 Personally my main concern is to listen to large scale phalanxes playing Berlioz, Shostakovich , Mahler.
 On this kind of tracks the LCD4 are acting like cans, head centered, and there is no other choice than Abyss or choose a speakers system.
  
 BHSE and SR009 too detailed for the music style. Not enough sustained bass.
  
 Cavalli, Chord TT or iFi micro DSD are good choices to drive the Abyss but lack of dynamics in the very quick transitions.
  
 Actually found only the Egoista VIVA with its two 845 1000V tubes and 15W rms able to move the membranes at the desired levels. Velocity and transparency.
  
 Perhaps the HeadTrip also ??
  
 Here is my personal return regarding the Abyss.


----------



## Beolab

Yes





cladane said:


> Hello the forum,
> 
> Really true.
> 
> ...




Yes the HeadTrip and the Viva is the only dedicated Headamps on the market that can drive the Abyss to its fullest potential with about 18 watt per channel in 46Ohms of power on tap! 

(I got a new (6 weeks old) HeadTrip (€5500 Euros) up for selling in favour for a speaker setup and a new car if someone is interested, then just place me a PM. )


----------



## Beolab

Here is the class field for my HeadTrip if someone is interested of collect the best 
Sounding Solid State headphone amps on the market: 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/804592/wells-audio-headtrip-headphone-balanced-class-a-amp-new/0_50#post_12492855


----------



## deuter

cladane said:


> Hello the forum,
> 
> Really true.
> 
> ...




just spellbound by the awesome gear you have, any chance of getting some photos for me to drool.


----------



## draytonklammer

Anyone have thoughts of the Abyss with Moon Neo 430HAD?


----------



## cladane

Some Amps, Cans, Dacs.


----------



## draytonklammer

How do you like the Odin versus the Abyss?


----------



## deuter

cladane said:


> Some Amps, Cans, Dacs.




Must be so much fun with all the variety.

What you believe is a bigger upgrade in your case. The DAC or the Amp.


----------



## eric65

Hi all,
  
 Abyss and Odin headphones were also present at the "Sound Days" (Parisian lounge of headphones, the last weekend)

 Visible in this photo (below), from front to back: the JPS Abyss (in the hands); the K. Odin (on the head) and the K. Vali (also on the head) ; also visible in this photo, the sublime amplifiers Viva 2A3 and egoista 845.

 Two listening have impressed at the show: the Abyss on the Viva 845 amp (spatialization outsized; dynamic; details); and the Odin on the Viva 2A3 amp : timbre quality (tone) and rendering natural, both extraordinary.

 Two very great headphones and two extraordinary amps; there are not the slightest doubt.
  

  
 http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/event-officiel/salon-casques-sound-days-paris-2eme-16-17-avril-2016-t30066893-45.html
  
 http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178874489.html#p178874489
 ​


----------



## cladane

Hi,
  
 The amp has greater impact than the DAC (at some level of DAC). First choose the can and then the Amp.
  
 ODIN and ABYSS have different sound presentation.
  
 ODIN is quite coherent on the spectre with good bass impact and solid mediums clearly audible driven by an amp like the 2A3. It remains a can with a sound a bit centered (with some very well mastered tracks on the ABYSS and TotalDAC I can hear more openness).
 Correctly priced, competitive.
  
 ABYSS has no competitor for the deep bass and the large sound stage making it the best for Symphonies and large Phalanxes.
 A must have for the music style.
  
 I own the two.


----------



## draytonklammer

Good to know. I currently own the LCD-4 which I feel is a step up from the Odin, or step sideways for that specific sound. Currently trying to sell some stuff to grab the Abyss.


----------



## eric65

draytonklammer said:


> Good to know. I currently own the *LCD-4 *which I feel is *a step up from the Odin*, or step sideways for that specific sound. Currently trying to sell some stuff to grab the Abyss.


 
  
 For the price, no doubt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ; when to the rest, I ask to listen to... (in good conditions, with a good amp)
 For example: LCD4 (200 ohms) + Audeze King (or RP8K-VT amp) Vs Odin + RP8K-VT amp (or much best, Viva 2A3 amp)


----------



## cladane

draytonklammer said:


> Good to know. I currently own the LCD-4 which I feel is a step up from the Odin, or step sideways for that specific sound. Currently trying to sell some stuff to grab the Abyss.


 

 I agree yes both very good on mediums. I didn't speak about the LCD4 since you asked about ODIN versus ABYSS.
  
 Then LCD4 versus ODIN, consider that price difference is twice. Nice to have pertinent choices at different prices.
  
 At the same LCD4 price level we were informed in Paris that Focal is showing in Munich headphones issued from their UTOPIA speakers technology.


----------



## draytonklammer

Excited to potentially get the Abyss though. I don't think my demo gave it justice.


----------



## deuter

cladane said:


> I agree yes both very good on mediums. I didn't speak about the LCD4 since you asked about ODIN versus ABYSS.
> 
> Then LCD4 versus ODIN, consider that price difference is twice. Nice to have pertinent choices at different prices.
> 
> At the same LCD4 price level we were informed in Paris that Focal is showing in Munich headphones issued from their UTOPIA speakers technology.




That will change it all, just think about getting the Utopia sound in headphones.
Never heard the speakers but know enough about them.


----------



## eric65

cladane said:


> Hi,
> 
> The amp has greater impact than the DAC (at some level of DAC). First choose the can and then the Amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 ODIN or ABYSS
  
 or ODIN and ABYSS ?
  
 That is the question ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  

 "Sound Days" Paris April 16-17th
  
 PS: LCD4 Vs Abyss and Odin (on the Viva 845 amp) ; a short impression (by Sky, in French): http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178875222.html#p178875222


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Abyss Headphones will be exhibiting at the HIGH END SHOW in Munich, Germany first week of May...

http://www.highendsociety.de/index.php/en_high_end_moc.html


----------



## jimmywtseng

The Hi-End Audio Show in Kaohsiung, Taiwan was great! 
  
 People give fantastic feedbacks! People mostly don't consider AB-1266 a pair of headphones after giving this system a try!  
  

  

  
  

  

  
 System configuration:

AB-1266 with SuperConductor HP headphone cables.
Meitner MA-1 DAC, Boulder 810 preamp, Woo Audio WA-234 Mono-Block
Entire system was wired with JPS Labs Aluminata series cables. Kaptovator power cord for PS Audio PowerPlant P10, SuperConductor V USB for MacBook Pro.


----------



## mulder01

Well, I've just gotten home from testing out the LCD-4 vs Abyss.  Apologies in advance for the lack of audiophile terminology here but I'm by no means an equipment reviewer so I'll keep it simple.
  
 I took my own gear into a store in Brisbane who has just gotten into head-fi (Aussie Hi-Fi / The Audio Taylor).  Nice guys, let me bring in my bag full of gear and set it all up on their desk and listen to whatever I wanted.
  
 Surface Pro 3 > Violectric v800 DAC > Violectric v281 amp > Abyss & LCD-4 
  
 DISCLAIMER - The Abyss is my own and has probably got about 150ish hours on it and the store claimed that the LCD-4 had about 4.  Also, for some reason Audeze are sending out LCD-4s with a single ended cable only now - I assume they think the balanced isn't needed?  Anyway...
  
 I personally thought that the sound signatures of the two were quite similar - they are both very good headphones but I still personally preferred the Abyss - I would describe the LCD-4 as just a bit more veiled and with a smaller soundstage.  I think part of the reason the soundstage on the Abyss is so good and the reason you get more of that 'out of your head' sound is because of the simple fact that the drivers are actually physically further away from your ears.  If you give yourself a tight fit on the Abyss, you bring the drivers in closer and your soundstage narrows significantly so that's definitely one advantage of the rigid design of the Abyss's headband.  Honestly, I don't think the sonic differences are that far apart from each other except for the fact that the LCD-4 sounded a bit veiled - I didn't feel like it was a better performer for any specific genre or anything like that - I think you could get yourself an instant set of LCD-4's by closing your Abyss headband in tighter and put a piece of cloth between your ear and the driver.  That is honestly how I heard it.
 I gave one of the guys who was running the store a bit of a go to a + b them too (they don't sell the Abyss at the moment) and he felt that they were very different sounds and that the LCD-4 seemed a bit more warm and relaxed and the Abyss was a bit more forward with the detail.  So I suppose we agree to a certain extent, so if you've ever listened to the Abyss and thought that the detail is a bit too forward and you'd like something more relaxed then maybe LCD-4 is the go, but if you find the Abyss is a bit veiled or lite on with the detail, (as I know many 009/ HD800 fans do) then I would definitely not recommend the LCD-4 to those people.
 But, as I said, that was single ended on a fairly new pair so disregard my comments if you will - I'm sure the LCD-4 will open up a bit with time and balanced cables, but I think it would still be behind - if it changed enough to not only match the Abyss, but surpass it, I would be surprised.
 I had pretty much the same feeling after a/b ing the Abyss/ HEK several months ago - I suppose they are all high end planars, I just think the Abyss does it better.
  
 Of course,
 IMO


----------



## draytonklammer

Things like that make me want to give the Abyss another whirl against my LCD-4.


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> Things like that make me want to give the Abyss another whirl against my LCD-4.


 
  
 Another whirl? You've compared them before?


----------



## draytonklammer

Yep, I preferred the time I had with the LCD-4, although I clearly did not think the Abyss was a slouch.
  
 I just wonder if I didn't play around with it enough. I know I tried a lot of fits, but kept going back to the LCD.
  
 To clarify, I like how intimate and how well presented the mids on the LCD-4 are. They lull me to them.


----------



## up late

looks like a classic case of audiophile nervosa to me


----------



## draytonklammer

Oh yeah, there's no denying I have a problem. My wallet is rather cross with me.


----------



## negura

mulder01 said:


> Surface Pro 3 > Violectric v800 DAC > Violectric v281 amp > Abyss & LCD-4


 
  
 Are you sure this rig is appropriate for that comparison. I was very unimpressed how that amp drove and sounded with the HE-6 - underwhelming is understating it. The LCD-4 (and Abyss) are inefficient headphones too.
  
 Also the sound signature of the Vioelectric would be a better match with neutral/bright headphones than Audezes, but this i a minor thing compared to the previous.
  
 I have no horse in this game btw.


----------



## mulder01

negura said:


> Are you sure this rig is appropriate for that comparison. I was very unimpressed how that amp drove and sounded with the HE-6 - underwhelming is understating it. The LCD-4 (and Abyss) are inefficient headphones too.
> 
> Also the sound signature of the Vioelectric would be a better match with neutral/bright headphones than Audezes, but this i a minor thing compared to the previous.
> 
> I have no horse in this game btw.


 
  
 Well that's why I listed the gear I was using - I suppose if you don't think it's suitable then you can disregard it.  The volume knob was around the half way mark on both the lcd-4 and abyss (+6 gain) (similar power requirement) - it's the amp I use at home and I like it, but hey, everyone's different.
  
 I have to get around to hearing isquirrel's setup some time - he has a better amp with balanced aftermarket cables and more hours on it so if I do hear it on different gear and my opinion changes I'll make note of it here.
  
 I honestly don't think these cans are as hard to power as people make out - I used the Abyss on an ifi idsd micro and it was perfectly acceptable and isquirrel has used his lcd-4 off a chord mojo and found the same thing.  I am pretty satisfied with my findings


----------



## STR-1

I had the LCD-4 on loan for a week to try out with my Chord Dave and was reasonably happy with it as a possible alternative option to my HE1000 but felt I should try to get a demo of the Abyss before parting with any money. I've identified a dealer that holds a demo Abyss (and Dave) and should without too much trouble be able to arrange a good demo but the more I read about the Abyss the more uncertain I am that the Dave can drive it (single-ended) properly. I don't want a separate headphone amp so am starting to think a demo of the Abyss will be a waste of time. Am I reading this right? Thanks for any advice.


----------



## discodelico

Hello,
I've got a Viva Egoista amplifier to listen my Abyss 1266 & it sounds GREAT!!


----------



## mulder01

str-1 said:


> I had the LCD-4 on loan for a week to try out with my Chord Dave and was reasonably happy with it as a possible alternative option to my HE1000 but felt I should try to get a demo of the Abyss before parting with any money. I've identified a dealer that holds a demo Abyss (and Dave) and should without too much trouble be able to arrange a good demo but the more I read about the Abyss the more uncertain I am that the Dave can drive it (single-ended) properly. I don't want a separate headphone amp so am starting to think a demo of the Abyss will be a waste of time. Am I reading this right? Thanks for any advice.


 
  
 I think if you are comparing all 3 headphones using the Dave then that's a fair comparison, right?  The power requirements of the 3 big planars aren't super different so if you're happy with the Dave's performance with the LCD-4 then I'd say it should be fine with the Abyss too.  
  
 So no, I don't think it's a waste of time - I had my Abyss running from an ifi idsd micro and I wouldn't call that a waste of time and the Dave should be a few notches above that...


----------



## isquirrel

I have been testing the DAVE this morning, running the Abyss, single ended absolutely no problem, you would have to have zero value for your ears to drive it any harder, I couldn't listen to max volume with them on. So that sorts that issue out.
  
 In fact I am listening to Mozart's Requiem DSD 128 through the Abyss/DAVE combo and its quite wonderful. Volume is at +0dB which is a little more than my ears will take and it will go up to +19dB.
  
 Fear not, its actually a really good combo with plenty of impact.


----------



## isquirrel

discodelico said:


> Hello,
> I've got a Viva Egoista amplifier to listen my Abyss 1266 & it sounds GREAT!!


 

 Great system, love the Kuzma, bet that sounds wonderful through the Egoista and the Abyss !


----------



## draytonklammer

isquirrel said:


> I have been testing the DAVE this morning, running the Abyss, single ended absolutely no problem, you would have to have zero value for your ears to drive it any harder, I couldn't listen to max volume with them on. So that sorts that issue out.
> 
> In fact I am listening to Mozart's Requiem DSD 128 through the Abyss/DAVE combo and its quite wonderful. Volume is at +0dB which is a little more than my ears will take and it will go up to +19dB.
> 
> Fear not, its actually a really good combo with plenty of impact.


 
 Still enjoying the LCD-4, or rethinking?


----------



## isquirrel

draytonklammer said:


> Still enjoying the LCD-4, or rethinking?


 

 Enjoying both, I am surprised at how well the DAVE sounds with the Abyss. Good synergy.
  
 Have you received yours yet?


----------



## draytonklammer

Wish I could give the Abyss another try.
 Been considering buying it and doing a long term comparison with the LCD-4.


----------



## deuter

draytonklammer said:


> Wish I could give the Abyss another try.
> Been considering buying it and doing a long term comparison with the LCD-4.


 
 Get it or no peace for you from the looks of it, just so you know there is life behind this whole headphone thing.
 For one there is Music, may be listen to some and you will know what I'am talking about.
  
 PS: Do get the Abyss though, its wonderful!


----------



## STR-1

mulder01 said:


> I think if you are comparing all 3 headphones using the Dave then that's a fair comparison, right?  The power requirements of the 3 big planars aren't super different so if you're happy with the Dave's performance with the LCD-4 then I'd say it should be fine with the Abyss too.
> 
> So no, I don't think it's a waste of time - I had my Abyss running from an ifi idsd micro and I wouldn't call that a waste of time and the Dave should be a few notches above that...







isquirrel said:


> I have been testing the DAVE this morning, running the Abyss, single ended absolutely no problem, you would have to have zero value for your ears to drive it any harder, I couldn't listen to max volume with them on. So that sorts that issue out.
> 
> In fact I am listening to Mozart's Requiem DSD 128 through the Abyss/DAVE combo and its quite wonderful. Volume is at +0dB which is a little more than my ears will take and it will go up to +19dB.
> 
> Fear not, its actually a really good combo with plenty of impact.



Thanks guys. I'm reassured that a demo is worth doing. Cheers


----------



## isquirrel

draytonklammer said:


> Wish I could give the Abyss another try.
> Been considering buying it and doing a long term comparison with the LCD-4.


 

 Buy them, you will not regret it, I bought and sold a few pairs of Abyss before I just settled down and got on with it. I made myself listen to them for a couple of weeks during which I tweaked them in every which way, annoyed the crap out of everyone by asking how they had theirs adjusted. Eventually I got it. The Abyss does things that no other headphone can. Its that simple. Having owned a pair of the big WIlson's - I can tell you hand on heart they are the closest thing to a big 2 channel speaker rig you will get on your head until Joe comes up with something new.
  
 I have watched friends on Head-Fi do the exact same thing as me, they have bought, sold, bought and come full circle. Yes the are not the most comfortable headphone, but the advantage they have over all other headphones is you can adjust them in so many ways. Toe in, toe out, close fit or extend all the way out, they are an adventure like nothing else you will put on your head (to listen to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) 
  
 Their resale value is excellent, so just buy some and post photos on here when you get them please.


----------



## potkettleblack

isquirrel said:


> The Abyss does things that no other headphone can. Its that simple.


 
  
 Yup.
  
 Going to audition Stax at the weekend; simply because I'm a headphone fan and love how they sound. But as a stand alone headphone that has knocked me off my feet the most - the AB-1266 is at the top of the mountain.


----------



## draytonklammer

I'm almost considering selling my LCD-4 just to take a stab at the Abyss again.


----------



## listen4joy

if you have a chance to demo it in some store or headfi member that lives close to you and you can loan it or just do demo and see which headphone you prefer it will be the best choice.


----------



## draytonklammer

Someone travelling let me have a small demo but I doubt I got the right fit.


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> I'm almost considering selling my LCD-4 just to take a stab at the Abyss again.


 
  
 If it's at all possible to get them at the same time, even if it's just for a few days or a week, I think you'd be able to do a shootout a lot easier and be confident with your findings as you are not relying on memory if you have them side by side... Obviously a lot of money though...


----------



## deuter

He's done the shootout already


----------



## ufospls2

draytonklammer said:


> Someone travelling let me have a small demo but I doubt I got the right fit.


 
 How did you enjoy it? The fit makes a difference for sure, there is no doubt, but you probably got a good idea of what the Abyss is all about. If I had to choose between the LCD-4 and Abyss I would be hard pressed to make a decision. The LCD-4 is sort of like a more intimate Abyss. Sort of.


----------



## draytonklammer

ufospls2 said:


> How did you enjoy it? The fit makes a difference for sure, there is no doubt, but you probably got a good idea of what the Abyss is all about. If I had to choose between the LCD-4 and Abyss I would be hard pressed to make a decision. The LCD-4 is sort of like a more intimate Abyss. Sort of.


 
 That's the one thing that stopped me from buying the Abyss. I have always loved intimacy over a wider farther soundstage.
 Your description is almost exactly what I found. That and the LCD-4 reacts very well to EQ so if I want the Abyss bass (at least with the fits I tested with in my short time testing) I can do that, or very close to it.


----------



## DocD

In my time with both I also found the LCD4 more intimate - like in skullcrushingly / will-not-let-you-go-deathgrip intimate. Sounded very good but not Abyss level quality for the money asked. Could not live with that clamp force even if they sounded great. 

So apart from SQ I (strange to say this) bought the Abyss for their comfort. I also find them better ventilated and not as heat retaining as my Ether C / TH600 / T1. Which is good for a warm climate like Oz. 

I do wish they weighed 200g less.


----------



## isquirrel

docd said:


> In my time with both I also found the LCD4 more intimate - like in skullcrushingly / will-not-let-you-go-deathgrip intimate. Sounded very good but not Abyss level quality for the money asked. Could not live with that clamp force even if they sounded great.
> 
> So apart from SQ I (strange to say this) bought the Abyss for their comfort. I also find them better ventilated and not as heat retaining as my Ether C / TH600 / T1. Which is good for a warm climate like Oz.
> 
> I do wish they weighed 200g less.


 

 I see some people such as yourself have really issues with the LCD-4, I don;t have any comfort issues with them, it must be down to differences in the shape of our heads and neck structure. I am in Ocas well and I do like the extra airflow on really hot days with the Abyss. I seem to have food a setting that makes the Abyss quite intimate while still having that wide soundstage. ITs doe stake time.
  
 I don't believe you can rush the Abyss experience.


----------



## isquirrel

This may surprise some people but I am getting a better sound out of the Abyss using the DAVE directly than I am out of my Woo 234's, I have tried a number of different tubes and haven't finished yet with experimenting but thats how its looking. The DAVE and Abyss are a magical combination.


----------



## isquirrel

Does anyone on this forum use Woo 234's? 
  
 Joe - when you use them for your demo's at shows what settings do you use on the amps: Plate Hi or Lo or do you use one of the Cathode settings?


----------



## Xecuter

Yeah, the Abyss is surprisingly easy to drive. If you decide to sell your WA234, please PM me.


----------



## mulder01

isquirrel said:


> This may surprise some people but I am getting a better sound out of the Abyss using the DAVE directly than I am out of my Woo 234's, I have tried a number of different tubes and haven't finished yet with experimenting but thats how its looking. The DAVE and Abyss are a magical combination.


 
  
 That's unreal.  Is that Dave + stock Abyss cable vs WA234 + DHC cable too?  
  


xecuter said:


> Yeah, the Abyss is surprisingly easy to drive. If you decide to sell your WA234, please PM me.


 
  
 Are you sure you want to do that....


----------



## Xecuter

Haha, I liked the wa234. If I can get it locally and 2nd hand what's the harm 
 Can always sell it later


----------



## holeout

Have to agree that Abyss directly out from the Dave is really superb. Haven't tried the Woo 234, but the best I've heard previously is Abyss coupled with Viva Egoista 845 which for me is of reference quality. Directly out from Dave, I maybe losing a tiny bit of lushness and euphoria of the 845 tubes, but gained a bit more transparency and extension, just a slightly different interpretation. The first 50 hours of running in Dave, Abyss and HEK sounded somewhat thin and congested off the HP output, but after about 200 to 300 hours, the sound opened up and offers an excellent musical presentation. Power wise,  Dave is really generous, when driving the Abyss even with music recorded at low levels, +3dB is more than adequate for me.


----------



## potkettleblack

For Abyss owners  :


----------



## cladane

Hello here,
 Quote:


> To clarify, I like how intimate and how well presented the mids on the LCD-4 are. They lull me to them.


 
 I think that's the biggest point versus the ABYSS. I would say that if you are a singer in a renowned choir, you would buy the LCD4 because of its wonderful mediums.
 Due to its spectacular opening the ABYSS has not such a great presentation of mediums.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

High End Munich Germany show next week, 'Diana' will be dressed in white with blue chiffon.

She is the world's thinnest planar magnetic headphone.

Exhibit Halle 4, U08/V07


----------



## Kiats

joe skubinski said:


> High End Munich Germany show next week, 'Diana' will be dressed in white with blue chiffon.
> 
> She is the world's thinnest planar magnetic headphone.
> 
> Exhibit Halle 4, U08/V07




Very nice, Joe. I hope there'll be reports and pictures. For the rest of us who are not able to make it up to Munich.


----------



## galacticsoap

I know this is the Abyss thread - but I've got to say the more I keep hearing about the Dave the harder it is to ignore. I must try and see if I can source one for a home audition in Sydney.


----------



## potkettleblack

Heard the Abyss through the Chord Hugo today compared to the idsd Micro and I thought the pairing was pretty bad to be honest. The ifi really manhandled it. The owner of the Hugo seemed to hold the same opinion.


----------



## Beolab

potkettleblack said:


> Heard the Abyss through the Chord Hugo today compared to the idsd Micro and I thought the pairing was pretty bad to be honest. The ifi really manhandled it. The owner of the Hugo seemed to hold the same opinion.




Manhandle it in a good way i assume, so you taught the Ifi Micro where the clear winner then? 

I have them both on display in our shop, and the Ifi puts out about 1.4 watts in turbo mode , whereas the Hugo just about 0,5 watts in 46 Ohms. But there is a but, the sound of the Hugo are more vivid with greater timing , depht and ultra fine detail.


----------



## galacticsoap

potkettleblack said:


> Heard the Abyss through the Chord Hugo today compared to the idsd Micro and I thought the pairing was pretty bad to be honest. The ifi really manhandled it. The owner of the Hugo seemed to hold the same opinion.


 
  


beolab said:


> Manhandle it in a good way i assume, so you taught the Ifi Micro where the clear winner then?
> 
> I have them both on display in our shop, and the Ifi puts out about 1.4 watts in turbo mode , whereas the Hugo just about 0,5 watts in 46 Ohms. But there is a but, the sound of the Hugo are more vivid with greater timing , depht and ultra fine detail.


 
  
 And there in lies the rub gents. The only Chord product I've had a chance to hear was the Hugo TT and while it was a great DAC by way of detail retrieval I found the sound stage a little narrow and therefore separation not quite as pronounced as competitors at the same price point. Don't get me wrong it was a solid DAC - it just wasn't the second coming I had been anticipating given the excitement that surrounded it. However, by all accounts the Dave is a completely different beast (as it should given it's price relative to the Hugo TT) i.e. it possess the classic Chord house sound while taking everything up several notches by way of musicality and technical delivery. My only experience with iFi's stable of products was via the Stereo 50 and while it certainly had enough power I was a little under-whelmed by all those subtle nuances we (audiophiles) like to think we're hearing: texture, extension, separation etc...etc...


----------



## potkettleblack

beolab said:


> Manhandle it in a good way i assume, so you taught the Ifi Micro where the clear winner then?
> 
> I have them both on display in our shop, and the Ifi puts out about 1.4 watts in turbo mode , whereas the Hugo just about 0,5 watts in 46 Ohms. But there is a but, the sound of the Hugo are more vivid with greater timing , depht and ultra fine detail.


Yeah a very good way and yes the clear winner. I genuinely found the synergy with the Hugo to be completely unsatisfying. Shrill, sharp, edgy, bright and just very unpleasant. Used the same 3 songs and did not alter the positioning of the Abyss during the test. Out of the 3 songs the Hugo sounded its strongest (not by much) with the electronic based song but the other two that were a vocal based song and classical were pretty horrific.


----------



## potkettleblack

Also when I was at the shop, there were two customers auditioning headphones, and both had put the Abyss on for about 5 minutes and took it straight off. When I asked them how they found it and they told me this, I took them individually into the spare room I was using to listen to the Stax models, hooked up the Abyss to my Ifi, gave them a quick lesson in how it should be fit, put on some of my best showcase songs, and watched their jaws drop.

The first guy was being that vocal in how impressed he was, the shop owner had to shut the two doors that were between us and the other auditioning room.


----------



## mulder01

potkettleblack said:


> Also when I was at the shop, there were two customers auditioning headphones, and both had put the Abyss on for about 5 minutes and took it straight off. When I asked them how they found it and they told me this, I took them individually into the spare room I was using to listen to the Stax models, hooked up the Abyss to my Ifi, gave them a quick lesson in how it should be fit, put on some of my best showcase songs, and watched their jaws drop.
> 
> The first guy was being that vocal in how impressed he was, the shop owner had to shut the two doors that were between us and the other auditioning room.


 
  
 How would you say the Stax stacks up against the Abyss?


----------



## deuter

mulder01 said:


> How would you say the Stax stacks up against the Abyss?




Simple, you want drop the stax pair if you move your head around


----------



## potkettleblack

mulder01 said:


> How would you say the Stax stacks up against the Abyss?


So hard to answer. I still prefer the Abyss against all other models - I think they are so far ahead of the Audezes, Hifiman, Sennheiser etc, but to speak of high-ends that compliment each other, the Abyss and 007 (both with the right amp) would be as good as it gets in my eyes at the moment. Really liked the L700 and 009 but found myself going back to the 007 every time.

The 007 vs the Abyss. Too hard to compare mate. The Abyss gives you more of a physical feeling than anything else available. The 007 is more elegant and soft natured - extremely relaxing and dreamy. The 007 being suited to classical, acoustic, vocals, slow electronic, live performances, jazz. The abyss with covered with about 4 different fit settings are the jack of all trades imo.
I was testing last night expanding the abyss to its fullest and found it quite incredible how forgiving it becomes of old crappy records. Put it to the smallest setting with the same recordings and prepare have the glass in your ears break.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Abyss is still my number 1! Following SR009 and SR007.
Nothing beats the Abyss in physical feeling and soundstage. Other TOTL headphones sound like headphones but with the Abyss you get another level of enjoyment.


----------



## draytonklammer

Finding more people who prefer the LCD-4. I really need to get my hands on an Abyss to make sure I get the correct fit and can properly compare.


----------



## jimmywtseng

243 serves AB-1266 amazingly well! I've asked Jack about output key settings, he recommends Plate Hi for the best performance since AB-1266 is a pair of relatively low efficient planar magnetic headphones.


----------



## warrior1975

potkettleblack said:


> For Abyss owners  :




I don't own the Abyss, but damn that video was incredible. I used my Tralucent Audio Ref 1 Too IEMS, never heard anything like it. I'll try my Fostex Th900 tomorrow, but that video was so impressive. How I wish all music was recording like that, with that never ending soundstage.


----------



## ufospls2

I posted this in the LCD-4 thread but figured people interested in the Abyss would be interested as well. I did a 4 hour listening session last night between the LCD-4 and Abyss. Both are great headphones. As I said in the LCD-4 thread I think the Abyss will become more of an every few days listen, when I have time to really dedicate to it. The LCD-4 is easier to listen to and figure out. Both are super cans. I posted a longer review on Reddit the other day. Hope this helps anyone deciding between the two. 
  
  
 https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/4gweiv/abyss_vs_lcd4_reviewtestcomparison_thing/


----------



## Kiats

ufospls2 said:


> I posted this in the LCD-4 thread but figured people interested in the Abyss would be interested as well. I did a 4 hour listening session last night between the LCD-4 and Abyss. Both are great headphones. As I said in the LCD-4 thread I think the Abyss will become more of an every few days listen, when I have time to really dedicate to it. The LCD-4 is easier to listen to and figure out. Both are super cans. I posted a longer review on Reddit the other day. Hope this helps anyone deciding between the two.
> 
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/4gweiv/abyss_vs_lcd4_reviewtestcomparison_thing/




Thanks for the review, ufopls2. I may have missed it but did you listen to the 200ohm version of the LCD 4? And what was the amp you used? Thanks!


----------



## ufospls2

kiats said:


> Thanks for the review, ufopls2. I may have missed it but did you listen to the 200ohm version of the LCD 4? And what was the amp you used? Thanks!


 
 Yeah I have the 200ohm version. Amp was the Auralic Taurus Mk2.


----------



## Chichiba

Hi all, I am new in head-fi.
 Wanna seek some advice before my Abyss arrived. Anyone have tried to use Totaldac d1 dual to drive Abyss? Is it powerful enough to drive it via the xlr output(6.2 Vrms max)? I have tried the headphone out(3.1 Vrms max) to drive the lcd 4(100 ohm version), and not much headroom left.
  
 I am also going to get a cable for abyss, anyone tried Norne Audio Silvergarde?


----------



## mulder01

chichiba said:


> Hi all, I am new in head-fi.
> Wanna seek some advice before my Abyss arrived. Anyone have tried to use Totaldac d1 dual to drive Abyss? Is it powerful enough to drive it via the xlr output(6.2 Vrms max)? I have tried the headphone out(3.1 Vrms max) to drive the lcd 4(100 ohm version), and not much headroom left.
> 
> I am also going to get a cable for abyss, anyone tried Norne Audio Silvergarde?


 
  
 Weird that they don't specify the output in watts. I would expect that if you were running out of headroom with the lcd4 that you might run out of power even earlier with the Abyss. Maybe hold off on the cable purchase until you can try the totaldac (Abyss comes with possibly better(?) cables anyway)  - you might be better off putting that money toward an amp...


----------



## Chichiba

Thanks for your advise. Yes, maybe I should hold on for the cable. Now, I just tried the single-ended headphone out to lcd 4, hope that it works if I go for balanced xlr out (with two 3-pin female-to-female adapter), otherwise I don't have extra budget to get a decent amp now.


----------



## mulder01

I think you are looking at the line level xlr outputs for connecting the dac to an amp, you'd need to use the amplified 1/4 inch headphone jack output for headphones.

I mean, definitely try it through the totaldac - it might be perfectly fine. Abyss should come with an adapter to 1/4 inch plug. 

I'd try it before making any decisions on what to buy next but yeah, it looks like the totaldac doesn't have a balanced headphone out - I wouldn't put an adapter on the XLR line outs and put headphones onto them... Perhaps someone can advise if that would do any damage or just be not excellent - I assume the current would be very low even if the voltage is sufficient...


----------



## Chichiba

mulder01 said:


> I think you are looking at the line level xlr outputs for connecting the dac to an amp, you'd need to use the amplified 1/4 inch headphone jack output for headphones.
> 
> I mean, definitely try it through the totaldac - it might be perfectly fine. Abyss should come with an adapter to 1/4 inch plug.
> 
> I'd try it before making any decisions on what to buy next but yeah, it looks like the totaldac doesn't have a balanced headphone out - I wouldn't put an adapter on the XLR line outs and put headphones onto them... Perhaps someone can advise if that would do any damage or just be not excellent - I assume the current would be very low even if the voltage is sufficient...


----------



## Chichiba

Oops, pressed wrong button. 

I searched the totaldac threads and found some users tried to drive headphones via the balanced output. I will try it with my lcd 4 and see the difference, once the adapters arrived. Thanks mulder01.


----------



## nassq8

chichiba said:


> Hi all, I am new in head-fi.
> Wanna seek some advice before my Abyss arrived. Anyone have tried to use Totaldac d1 dual to drive Abyss? Is it powerful enough to drive it via the xlr output(6.2 Vrms max)? I have tried the headphone out(3.1 Vrms max) to drive the lcd 4(100 ohm version), and not much headroom left.
> 
> I am also going to get a cable for abyss, anyone tried Norne Audio Silvergarde?


 
  
 I'm also confused here, using HP power calculator, 6.2 Vmrs at 46 ohm translated to max power  of 835.65 mW and  a current of 134.78 mA. Abyss, thus as per its specifications, needs only 3.16 mW and 8.29 mA to reach for example 90 dB level, which is so loud BTW.
  
 Despite the above fact, such max power and current do not cut it to drive Abyss with authority, at leas for my ear!!! Why does that happen, while Abyss only needs a fraction of power and current flows (3.16 mW and 8.29 mA) to reach the targeted 90 dB?
  
 Am I missing something here or misunderstanding the fundamental concepts of how HP is powered ?


----------



## Torq

nassq8 said:


> I'm also confused here, using HP power calculator, 6.2 Vmrs at 46 ohm translated to max power  of 835.65 mW and  a current of 134.78 mA. Abyss, thus as per its specifications, needs only 3.16 mW and 8.29 mA to reach for example 90 dB level, which is so load BTW.
> 
> Despite the above fact, such max power and current do not cut it to drive Abyss with authority, at leas for my ear!!! Why does that happen, while Abyss only needs a fraction of power and current flows (3.16 mW and 8.29 mA) to reach the targeted 90 dB?
> 
> Am I missing something here or misunderstanding the fundamental concepts of how HP is powered ?


 

 Unless stated otherwise, the quoted sensitivity/efficiency and impedance numbers tend to be for a 1 KHz signal.  Since power requirements of any transducer tend to vary with frequency it's quite possible that frequencies above or, especially, below that, require more power.
  
 With planar magnetic headphones, like the Abyss, you don't generally see deviations in impedance at different frequencies, though that's an additional complicating factor with dynamic cans.
  
 In general, my experience has been that the more power available, the more headroom you have and the more breathing room the amplifier/power supply has in keeping up with the demands of the headphone when actually playing music (rather than a single-frequency test tone).
  
 I do know that my LCD-4, for example, sound much better with my WA5LE on it's "High Power" setting (about 7 watts available at 200 ohms), even though the "Low Power" setting can drive them to ear-splitting levels.


----------



## Beolab

The Abyss and LCD-4 needs power to gain the right headroom and sing out like it was intended to from the developer as already stated by Torq. 

I have a a lot of high end speaker and headphones rigs back home, but i have placed an order on a Tesla car, so i need to sell of some of my beloved high end gear.

So if anyone wants to buy a New 6 weeks old Ultra High End Wells Audio HeadTrip amp for a nice price, then just send me a PM. 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/807062/new-wells-audio-headtrip-headphone-ultra-high-end-balanced-amp-only-6-weeks-old/0_50#post_12554290


----------



## nassq8

torq said:


> Unless stated otherwise, the quoted sensitivity/efficiency and impedance numbers tend to be for a 1 KHz signal.  Since power requirements of any transducer tend to vary with frequency it's quite possible that frequencies above or, especially, below that, require more power.
> 
> With planar magnetic headphones, like the Abyss, you don't generally see deviations in impedance at different frequencies, though that's an additional complicating factor with dynamic cans.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your elaboration. Well then based on that, it should be better to have a way to average out sensitivity/efficiency and impedance  throughout the entire spectrum of audio frequency, if manufacturers want to introduce more solid fact about their HP! Or at least pick the toughest point on frequency where the power and current are  most needed, and publish it as reference for sensitivity/efficiency and impedance.


----------



## mulder01

I think people are missing the point of the question - the totaldac does not have a balanced headphone output - he wanted to run the abyss off the line outs.


----------



## isquirrel

Good evening guys, listening to the soundtrack from Sicario, its intense, dark and brooding. Perfect material for a late night listening session. 
  
​Its on Qobuz and Tidal http://listen.tidal.com/album/50958085


----------



## potkettleblack

isquirrel said:


> [COLOR=373E4D]Good evening guys, listening to the soundtrack from Sicario, its intense, dark and brooding. Perfect material for a late night listening session.[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=373E4D]​Its on Qobuz[/COLOR] and Tidal http://listen.tidal.com/album/50958085


Watched that film a month ago and wanted to get the soundtrack for that scene with the motorway, with the birdseye shot - really eerie deep, ambient music. Thanks for reminding me.


----------



## isquirrel

mulder01 said:


> I think you are looking at the line level xlr outputs for connecting the dac to an amp, you'd need to use the amplified 1/4 inch headphone jack output for headphones.
> 
> I mean, definitely try it through the totaldac - it might be perfectly fine. Abyss should come with an adapter to 1/4 inch plug.
> 
> I'd try it before making any decisions on what to buy next but yeah, it looks like the totaldac doesn't have a balanced headphone out - I wouldn't put an adapter on the XLR line outs and put headphones onto them... Perhaps someone can advise if that would do any damage or just be not excellent - I assume the current would be very low even if the voltage is sufficient...


 

 I have a good friend who used to have that DAC. I would contact the DAC builder (Vincent) before running anything out of the XLR outputs. I know my friend did have some success with running Headphones direct out of the XLR outputs. I am pretty sure the output impedance is low enough to work okay. His was the TotalDAC d1-Dual, the one down from the twelve. He ended up selling it and buying DAVE, that will run both he Abyss and the LCD-4 no problem single ended from the Headphone output. 
  
 Vincent is a good guy and will help you out. You will not get the headroom you will need to drive the Abyss properly though out of the XLR outputs, I suspect you will either end up selling it or having to buy an amp.


----------



## Chichiba

isquirrel said:


> I have a good friend who used to have that DAC. I would contact the DAC builder (Vincent) before running anything out of the XLR outputs. I know my friend did have some success with running Headphones direct out of the XLR outputs. I am pretty sure the output impedance is low enough to work okay. His was the TotalDAC d1-Dual, the one down from the twelve. He ended up selling it and buying DAVE, that will run both he Abyss and the LCD-4 no problem single ended from the Headphone output.
> 
> Vincent is a good guy and will help you out. You will not get the headroom you will need to drive the Abyss properly though out of the XLR outputs, I suspect you will either end up selling it or having to buy an amp.


 
  
 Thanks isquirrel, you're right, maybe I need an amp eventually. I did a test on the XLR outputs with the LCD 4 and the adapters. It doesn't have much more power than the SE headphone out, it's out of my expectation. It's just a bit more headroom, which is enough for the LCD 4 (version 1) but most likely not for the Abyss or LCD4 version 2
  
 To fund the new amp, maybe I have to sell my stax 009 first, if anyone wants it, just leave me a pm (sorry, I cannot post to FS forums because I am too new)


----------



## Chichiba

Did anyone compare liquid gold and mass kobo394 on abyss? Sorry, this thread is too long, difficult to find...


----------



## mulder01

I only remember one guy on here who heard the Mass Kobo stuff - just did a search for it it's back on page 69 of this thread and also he started a mass kobo 394 thread as well.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/711879/mass-ko-bo-394-new-high-end-amp-for-power-hungry-headphone-like-abyss-1266


----------



## arnaud

Never tried a planar with my D1-six but I don't think it's recommanded to drive low impedance phones, more like 150+ ohms.

Having said that, staying away from this dac because it doesn't drive headphone directly is just plain silly imo. 

First, if you're spending that much money on the source and phones, you should perhaps have a budget for an amp.

Second, driving phones directly from the dac output is a myth except for very very few dacs out there (top flight msb, d1-twelve), doesn't the dave also include active circuitry to interface the phones? Totaldac just released a dac dedicated to headphone enthusiasts (phone output is an afterthought on all of his dacs with the headphone out on the back panel), but again here, it has active circuitry between the ladder output and the heaphone out in order to handle a wide range of loads with sufficient headroom.

Arnaud


----------



## Chichiba

Thanks a lot





arnaud said:


> Never tried a planar with my D1-six but I don't think it's recommanded to drive low impedance phones, more like 150+ ohms.
> 
> Having said that, staying away from this dac because it doesn't drive headphone directly is just plain silly imo.
> 
> ...


, yes, I am going to get an amp, but it's really difficult to try liquid gold or mass kobo in hong kong. I used to have violectric v281, now I regreted I sold it.


----------



## arnaud

chichiba said:


> Thanks a lot
> , yes, I am going to get an amp, but it's really difficult to try liquid gold or mass kobo in hong kong. I used to have violectric v281, now I regreted I sold it.


 

 Not sure you must restrain yourself to fotm amp to pair with a planar headphone like the abyss. The purely resistive load (~50 ohm for many planars) means you don't really need a fancy amp, why don't you try the amps at the dealer first and keep an open mind? Also, is it any easier to audition the sources like TotalDAC? I would not think so since products are sold direct to avoid escalating costs of traditional retail system.
  
 For the TotalDAC, ask vincent anyhow about the load because, officially, his dacs are supposed to handle loads in 32-600 ohms range. The XLR output on the amp are typically over 5V rms, which may be enough to get the abyss loud enough if the DAC can handle the load without distorting.
  
 For reference, I am presently using a friend's HD800s out of the headphone out from my D1-six and cannot go beyond -15dB or so in level before it gets annoyingly load (typically more around -25 to -20dB).
 The headphone spec is 106dB/V which translates into 96dB/mW assuming 350 ohm impedance (varies with frequency but this is ball park).
  
 In comparison, the Abyss is 85dB/mW so about 10dB quieter than the Sennheiser which means I would also probably not be able to pleasantly listen to it using my DAC without attenuating the output.
 So, assuming the DAC can handle the 46 Ohm resistive load, I would presume you could make the abyss sing fairly loud from the DAC XLR out.
  
 cheers,
 arnaud


----------



## galacticsoap

isquirrel said:


> Good evening guys, listening to the soundtrack from Sicario, its intense, dark and brooding. Perfect material for a late night listening session.
> 
> ​Its on Qobuz and Tidal http://listen.tidal.com/album/50958085


 
  
 WOW - listening to it right now. Brilliantly dark.


----------



## isquirrel

galacticsoap said:


> WOW - listening to it right now. Brilliantly dark.


 

 Glad you are enjoying it, the composer Johann Johannsson also did the Theory of Everything and Prisoners Soundtracks (plus a few more!) Prisoners is also very good and worth a listen.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

2016 Munich High End...

We were playing the AB-1266 and JPS Labs Superconductor HP upgrade cable set with the KR Audio VA350 30 watt single ended stereo tube amp and the Italian Aqua HiFi La Scala DAC and transport. Excellent clear sound. 

More pix from 2016 Munich High End on our Facebook page here...




Note that KR Audio manufactures their own extensive line of tubes in the Czech Republic, their KRT1610 has to be the coolest audio tube going...


----------



## cladane

Hello,
  
 Thank you Joe for this report.
  
 Notice that the VA350 has 2xT100 tubes.
  
 The ABYSS in this setup is connected directly to the speakers outputs ?


----------



## Fink24

Yes, the Abyss was connected to the speaker outputs.


----------



## deuter

joe skubinski said:


> 2016 Munich High End...
> 
> We were playing the AB-1266 and JPS Labs Superconductor HP upgrade cable set with the KR Audio VA350 30 watt single ended stereo tube amp and the Italian Aqua HiFi La Scala DAC and transport. Excellent clear sound.
> 
> ...




Size does matter for sure !


----------



## mulder01

Plot twist: 
It's just a regular sized tube and a small child's hand...


----------



## Chichiba

isquirrel said:


> I have a good friend who used to have that DAC. I would contact the DAC builder (Vincent) before running anything out of the XLR outputs. I know my friend did have some success with running Headphones direct out of the XLR outputs. I am pretty sure the output impedance is low enough to work okay. His was the TotalDAC d1-Dual, the one down from the twelve. He ended up selling it and buying DAVE, that will run both he Abyss and the LCD-4 no problem single ended from the Headphone output.
> 
> Vincent is a good guy and will help you out. You will not get the headroom you will need to drive the Abyss properly though out of the XLR outputs, I suspect you will either end up selling it or having to buy an amp.


 
  
 I asked Vincent, and he also confirmed that d1 dual maybe a bit difficult to drive Abyss loudly via the xlr outputs, because of its low efficiency. He suggested me to try Viva egoista 845, but it's too expensive for me. I am curious whether the Mal Valve Head amp 3 can drive it well too, anyone has experience on it? If it is powerful enough, maybe I will keep my stax 009.
  
 Thanks all


----------



## ufospls2

Has anyone here tried the Abyss with ALO Audios Continental Dual Mono? I'm worried it won't have enough juice for the Abyss. Hopefully I'll be able to try it soon.


----------



## mulder01

ufospls2 said:


> Has anyone here tried the Abyss with ALO Audios Continental Dual Mono? I'm worried it won't have enough juice for the Abyss. Hopefully I'll be able to try it soon.


 
  
 I think you might be right - I'd say 145mW into 50 ohms isn't going to cut the mustard.  That's if you can get a 2.5mm balanced plug to XLR to try it with the Abyss balanced, otherwise in single ended mode it has even less of a chance with 95mW...
  
 Having said that, I haven't tried it.  But I used to own portable that would put out about 600mW into the abyss and it was suitable when I had a high output dac and not quiet recordings, otherwise I had to have it at full volume to be listenable.  So with a quarter of the power I'd think you can safely say it won't be suitable.


----------



## AlanYWM

ufospls2 said:


> Has anyone here tried the Abyss with ALO Audios Continental Dual Mono? I'm worried it won't have enough juice for the Abyss. Hopefully I'll be able to try it soon.


 
  
 You can get adequate loudness with this combo but IMO, the CDM is clearly not good enough to power this HP adequately. I listened with high gain and only single-ended. I did not have to turn the volume all the way up but the bass coming out of the Abyss was just lacking. In contrast, the Wagnus portable amp was doing a better job at driving the Abyss.


----------



## ufospls2

Cool, thanks for the replies. I would primarily be using it with the LCD-4 not the Abyss, so I will still give it a go, but I'm also going to check out other options as well.


----------



## galacticsoap

To all the Violectric V281 owners out there - a question: Since my MSB Analog isn't truly balanced, I've got my V281 connected to it via Cardas Clear single ended RCA's. Since owning the Abyss I had the gain settings set to +6 (the second highest gain setting). Earlier this week I was installing some new XLR's (from the MSB to my 2 channel amp) and selected the highest gain setting i.e. +12. Where before on the +6 setting I would regularly listen to the Abyss with the volume pot set at 11 o'clock, now on the +12 gain I barely move it past 8 o'clock. My question though, would I be compromising anything (either in the amp or through the rest of the system) with the selection of this, the highest gain setting?


----------



## Xecuter

Just got my short headband (many thanks Joe!). The band is significantly tighter and now the band is actually working as a suspension band. Previously due to my small head the band was touching the top of the frame even at the 50% opening.
  
 Elevating the cups sounds like elevating studio monitors, everything is tighter, bass seems even more controlled now that the headphones sit somewhat reliably, it is no longer a balancing act to keep them in the same position.
  
 I would highly recommend the smaller headband to anyone with a small to medium sized head having issues with fit.
 They are also much more comfortable for extending listening sessions now, been listening all afternoon!


----------



## cladane

joe skubinski said:


> Abyss Headphones will be exhibiting at the HIGH END SHOW in Munich, Germany first week of May...
> 
> http://www.highendsociety.de/index.php/en_high_end_moc.html


 

 Hi,
 Wasn't Lucky with my young ABYSS. The two (!) drivers felt stone dead last week.
 Sent today to the French importer.


----------



## DocD

Hmm - so here is where I am at. 

Tidal / Hi Def downloads via Roon -> Sonicorbiter -> Curious Usb -> Regen -> Curious Link -> Metrum Pavane -> Grover Hoffman Empress IC -> Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP (stock tubes but have 8x KT150's to roll in) -> Norne Silvergarde from speaker taps -> Norne Silvergarde HP cable -> Abyss. 

So happy. Freaking awesome.


----------



## nassq8

cladane said:


> Hi,
> Wasn't Lucky with my young ABYSS. The two (!) drivers felt stone dead last week.
> Sent today to the French importer.


 
  
 What happened? I do not see such instances common  around here!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

cladane said:


> Hi,
> Wasn't Lucky with my young ABYSS. The two (!) drivers felt stone dead last week.
> Sent today to the French importer.


 
  
 Both drivers failed simultaneously?  Sounds like something else was at play...  The likely hood of that happening to any pair of headphones seems excessively small.


----------



## cladane

Some months ago got intermittent sound cutoffs in the right driver but didn't last and previous week the two drivers went off. Dead silents so.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

We'll know for sure once they make their way back here, but I'm betting on them being overpowered. One driver quit, very very rare, two drivers give up, same system, there's a definite problem and it's not the headphone.

There's either a problem with the amp, or just plain excessive volume/power level. The Egoista is a scary big headphone amp.


----------



## mulder01

Too much power? I blame beolab


----------



## DocD

Then how much is too much?


----------



## Stereolab42

docd said:


> Then how much is too much?


 
  
 I would think to overpower the Abyss you'd have to wire them directly into 60hz mains like some people do on Youtube videos to kill car-audio speakers...


----------



## matthewhypolite

I've just caught up with the last 17-20 pages or so of the thread.
  
 I've seen 1 or 2 guys asking about the Abyss vs HEK and LCD4.
 I don't have experience with the LCD4, but ive own the LCD3 for a few years.

 I currently have both the HEK and the Abyss. and trust me @draytonklammer I went through the same back and fort as you. Trying to decide between the HEK , LCD and Abyss lol. After numerous LCD3 failures (5) I decided to move on, and I got the Abyss off @isquirrel , The comfort and fit issues were a problem for me, though the headphones sounded amazing. I then got the HEK, which was a lot more comfortable. And I was torn between selling the abyss. Then we started discussing headband mods on the site, and I did a particular mod that all but solved all my comfort issues with the abyss. I was able to get a perfect fit and man o man are those cans special. I ended up keeping both headphones and I'm happy with that decision.

 I Use the abyss for the genres they shine with, which was previously mentioned. EDM, Dubstep, Pop (Michael Jackson albums sound amazing), etc. And I use the HEK for pretty much everything else. Nu Metal, Gaming, etc.

 Lately though ive been reaching for the abyss more and more, in all genres, and I echo everyone's thoughts when I say "The abyss does what no other cans I've heard does." The HEK are a great pair of headphones, and a great all round pair. But the abyss is "different" , the abyss is special. When the abyss shines, it sores. Its absolute authority and slam, and dynamic range is simply jaw dropping at times. I cannot see myself parting with the abyss. I can however see myself parting with the HEK, because I can see them being outdone by future iterations or other headphones. The LCD3 and HEK are closer comparison in that regard, though I give the win hands down to the HEK there, but IMO, there is nothing like the Abyss.
  
 Now to contact Joe and see if I cant get myself one of those short headbands. Would be nice to not have to rely on modded headband to get the perfect fit.


 P.S. the abyss is ALLLLLLLL about that fit. the Right/Wrong fit can mean the difference between a truly stellar and spectacular headphone, and an awkward, weird and underperforming headphone. The fit of the abyss is imo the most important thing to consider, and it takes time to get it right. I have mines adjusted perfectly. And I've memorized that position incase a friend comes and wants to try the abyss.


----------



## matthewhypolite

On another note, I forgot to ask.
  
 Seen folks talking bout the Woo WA5, I was considering an upgraded LE with the appropriate tubes.
 ​Currently I have the LAu, anyone with experience with both LAu and Woo WA5 (upgraded) ?

 Want to know if it's worth selling the LAu and grabbing the WA5.
  
 Regards,


----------



## draytonklammer

With that being said, have you tried the LCD-4? That's my struggle. I just sold the HEK after I found the LCD-4 to be more magical.


----------



## cladane

joe skubinski said:


> We'll know for sure once they make their way back here, but I'm betting on them being overpowered. One driver quit, very very rare, two drivers give up, same system, there's a definite problem and it's not the headphone.
> 
> There's either a problem with the amp, or just plain excessive volume/power level. The Egoista is a scary big headphone amp.


 

 They joined Alter Audio in France.
  
 People here connect them to much powerful speakers amps (like at the Munich show) and nobody reported a failure.
  
 I'm really waiting for your expertise on this matter.


----------



## matthewhypolite

draytonklammer said:


> With that being said, have you tried the LCD-4? That's my struggle. I just sold the HEK after I found the LCD-4 to be more magical.


 
  
 I've not had the pleasure of trying the LCD4, i'd like to though. But I need 100% confirmation hat the reliability issues have been resolved with the audeze line before I bite for a pair. But from what ive read, the lcd4 has a similar sound signature to the 3s, but improved. So like i said before, I can see this ultimately beating out the HEK. The abyss on the other hand.....that one i'll have to hear for myself


----------



## Xecuter

matthewhypolite said:


> On another note, I forgot to ask.
> 
> Seen folks talking bout the Woo WA5, I was considering an upgraded LE with the appropriate tubes.
> ​Currently I have the LAu, anyone with experience with both LAu and Woo WA5 (upgraded) ?
> ...


 
 I found the wa5 (fully upgraded) was much better than the LaU. However a fully upgraded wa5 with upgraded tubes is pretty expensive and there are a few other amps you should try audition in that price bracket.
 Stock wa5 is very average, I would say the upgrades and decent tubes are a must.
  
 Hope this helps


----------



## matthewhypolite

xecuter said:


> I found the wa5 (fully upgraded) was much better than the LaU. However a fully upgraded wa5 with upgraded tubes is pretty expensive and there are a few other amps you should try audition in that price bracket.
> Stock wa5 is very average, I would say the upgrades and decent tubes are a must.
> 
> Hope this helps


 

 ​Yea, I had already checked it up and I was looking at around USD$8K. Thinking if I sell the LAu should be able to foot the rest to get the WA5s.

 What other amps you recommend in that space?


----------



## Xecuter

EC Studio/moon 430HA/Head trip. These come to mind. All have pros and cons. I have never been a huge fan of woo but I have to admit the wa234 was the best I have heard the abyss, the wa5 was a close second best. I have not heard the studio but with the yggdrassil it is supposed to be the best amp on the market. The headtrip has recieved mixed feed back but some people swear by it and the Moon is the go to amp for Tyll and a few others here (I think it is a bargain), as it is an incredibly neutral yet natural sounding amp.
  
 In all reality. Abyss is pretty easy to drive, but if you want to get the absolute best out of it, you need to tailor your upstream gear to suit your tastes.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

At Munich we had our AB-1266 connected to a KR Audio V350 stereo tube amp.The amp is rated for 30 watts, but that is into 8 ohms. The Abyss is a higher impedance @46 ohms, so connected to the same amp it draws 46/8=5.75 times less power for that speaker amp rating. So the best that amp could do into the AB-1266 is 5 watts. Your Egoista is rated for 3 times that into a headphone load, or equivalent to a 100 watt speaker amp.

With all that power comes a greater need for restraint and self control. It's the same with higher horsepower (affordable) cars like the GTR or Corvette, can do flips, literally, if you take them too far, and they beg for you to take them there. All that power on tap is thrilling in short bursts, but hold it to the floor for too long...

I understand, it can be difficult to know at what point **** happens, until it does. That's life. I would say it begins at a point where you are enjoying hard hitting music cleanly at higher volumes than every before, and that little voice in your head tells you to turn it up a bit more...





cladane said:


> They joined Alter Audio in France.
> 
> People here connect them to much powerful speakers amps (like at the Munich show) and nobody reported a failure.
> 
> I'm really waiting for your expertise on this matter.


----------



## cladane

joe skubinski said:


> At Munich we had our AB-1266 connected to a KR Audio V350 stereo tube amp.The amp is rated for 30 watts, but that is into 8 ohms. The Abyss is a higher impedance @46 ohms, so connected to the same amp it draws 46/8=5.75 times less power for that speaker amp rating. So the best that amp could do into the AB-1266 is 5 watts. Your Egoista is rated for 3 times that into a headphone load, or equivalent to a 100 watt speaker amp.
> 
> With all that power comes a greater need for restraint and self control. It's the same with higher horsepower (affordable) cars like the GTR or Corvette, can do flips, literally, if you take them too far, and they beg for you to take them there. All that power on tap is thrilling in short bursts, but hold it to the floor for too long...
> 
> I understand, it can be difficult to know at what point **** happens, until it does. That's life. I would say it begins at a point where you are enjoying hard hitting music cleanly at higher volumes than every before, and that little voice in your head tells you to turn it up a bit more...


 

 Thank you Joe for your answer and I understand your impedance calculations.
  
 Regarding power I never go farther than 12h with the volume pot on the Egoista.
  
 But now you are going to be able to look into those cans and the question remains until you can bring an answer which is not of small importance for the amp manufacturers: if the amp destroyed the headphones, what max power for ABYSS ??
  
 ABYSS have been reported to be beast to drive and new amps delivering always more power have shown up (not speaking of Wells HeadTrip with 25W/32ohms).
  
 We are all ears opened.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

There is no absolute power level, volume setting, or number that can be placed on any system as there are too many variables. I don't believe blame can be placed on the amplifier, it's most likely not a cause, rather part of the effect. 

Bottom line.. the greater the available power, the more care required. Put another way, it's easy to destroy speakers when using amplifiers capable of exceeding their upper limits. As Clint Eastwood once said, "A man's got to know his limitations."

You recently acquired the LCD-4. It would be very easy to set a higher volume level while listening to this headphone as it requires a higher gain given it's high impedance, while the Abyss (or another headphone) is connected to the same amp (dual output jacks). You would not realize how loud the other headphone is playing since you are wearing the LCD4. It would be game over once the song has ended. Just one possible explanation of what went wrong.

**** happens...


----------



## cladane

Hi Joe,
  
 Yes I bought the LCD4 and I own a set of other headphones (and amps) with, like you write, characterics which differ.
 Regarding the LCD4, it is not possible to connect ABYSS and LCD4 on the Egoista because of the connectors.
  
 I'm aware of this possible mismatch connecting many headphones at the same time.
  
 I will take a lot of care of what you fill find.
  
 Thank you for your support.


----------



## stvc

isquirrel said:


> I have a good friend who used to have that DAC. I would contact the DAC builder (Vincent) before running anything out of the XLR outputs. I know my friend did have some success with running Headphones direct out of the XLR outputs. I am pretty sure the output impedance is low enough to work okay. His was the TotalDAC d1-Dual, the one down from the twelve. He ended up selling it and buying DAVE, that will run both he Abyss and the LCD-4 no problem single ended from the Headphone output.
> 
> Vincent is a good guy and will help you out. You will not get the headroom you will need to drive the Abyss properly though out of the XLR outputs, I suspect you will either end up selling it or having to buy an amp.


 

 Hi,
  
 do you run use any amp with dave to run abyss? I know dave have enough power to drive abyss but i not sure if they able to bring out the full potential of abyss and i prefer to run in balance mode but too bad dave doesn't come with balance, the only way i could think off is to run balance will be dave > amp > abyss.


----------



## ufospls2

I have a weird question for all you other Abyss guys. When I use my Abyss, my ears get hot (sometimes) and the area inside the earcup starts to sweat. After say an hour listening session, I can actually see sweat/condensation on the part that covers the driver. I'm worried over time this will damage the drivers/cause rust? Is this a valid concern? Does this happen to anyone else?


----------



## isquirrel

stvc said:


> Hi,
> 
> do you run use any amp with dave to run abyss? I know dave have enough power to drive abyss but i not sure if they able to bring out the full potential of abyss and i prefer to run in balance mode but too bad dave doesn't come with balance, the only way i could think off is to run balance will be dave > amp > abyss.


 

 I find the Abyss works just fine driven solely by the DAVE. If you add an amp you will be adding distortion which will overcome any so called advantages of running in balanced mode which has dubious benefits in any case in the DAVE's case.


----------



## Torq

ufospls2 said:


> I have a weird question for all you other Abyss guys. When I use my Abyss, my ears get hot (sometimes) and the area inside the earcup starts to sweat. After say an hour listening session, I can actually see sweat/condensation on the part that covers the driver. I'm worried over time this will damage the drivers/cause rust? Is this a valid concern? Does this happen to anyone else?


 

 I can't say that happens with me, but then I tend to run the Abyss with either no seal or a very light seal, so I'd expect any moisture/heat to escape.
  
 As to whether it's a concern or not, I'd think Joe would need to weigh in on that.


----------



## potkettleblack

ufospls2 said:


> I have a weird question for all you other Abyss guys. When I use my Abyss, my ears get hot (sometimes) and the area inside the earcup starts to sweat. After say an hour listening session, I can actually see sweat/condensation on the part that covers the driver. I'm worried over time this will damage the drivers/cause rust? Is this a valid concern? Does this happen to anyone else?


Do you own a fan?


----------



## mulder01

Yeah that's weird - I would have said that your ears/face can breathe better while wearing the abyss than with any other headphone due to the fact that the seal is partly open.  It must be nearly 100% humidity where you are for condensation to form in a space that has at least some degree of airflow...
  
 In any case though, I would say that moisture and electronics are a bad mix...  
  
 Just throw some desiccant in the bottom of the earcups


----------



## Cortazar

After almost 2 years have i bought abyss 1266 for the second time. I have missed their bass, dynamic and just fun to listen to them. Ok compared to stax009 or sennheiser orpheus they are maybe a little u shape frequencies but what the hell, they are like a heroin!
 So here am i with a new pair go 1266, i have to burn them in (i hate this) but i am really happy to have them/hear them and will certainly not be selling them again!
 I am going to play them directly via speaker output from an crossfire or air tight atm-300. My question: i have bought ana adapter 3 pin xlr- bananas, but the bananas are not signed red or white as speaker cables are. Does it matter how do i connect them to speaker output?
 ->isquirrel: do i understand you right that abyss played directly from dave outperforms your woo audio monoblocks?
 What i hear from anon crossfire at the moment (1 hour from a new pair of abyss) is very promising!
 Pawel


----------



## nassq8

Not sure what will happen but just don't take the risk. I think using multimeter with continuity function could help.


----------



## mulder01

yeah I would google image search "3 pin xlr pinout" and then check continuity with a meter to find out + and -. 
A bit slack of whoever made the cable not to identify + and - though...


----------



## eric65

Refusal to guarantee a headphone Abyss, for use of a too powerful headphone amplifier?
  
 You can follow here this interesting discussion on the French forum http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178919262.html#p178919262.
  
 Just in case, Joe, if I were to buy a Abyss (although I have a Viva amplifier), can you specify the list of amplifiers for headphones that you refuse to guarantee for use with the Abyss ?
  
 Subsidiary question: what is the real power limit headphone Abyss? : 1 Watt ? 4 Watt ?; more ? less?
  
 Thanks for your clarification, that have interest for a large number of members of the HCFR french forum and possibly also Head-Fi?
  
 Cordially.


----------



## mulder01

Hmm I don't know the full story here, but I would say if they open it up and can see that a driver has blown up from an excessive amount of power flowing through it that it would be obvious - copper track blown in half or something like that which could only happen by an excess of power flowing through it.  I wouldn't expect any speaker manufacturer to replace a pair of speakers if the user blew them by putting too much power into them.  
  
 If something come loose and shorted out to the frame of the headphone or some manufacturing fault like that then yes I would expect a replacement.
  
 Would be hard to put an exact figure on exactly when something would blow up - It would be related to time as well as power - it may handle a dynamic peak of 10w just fine because it's only for a tiny fraction of a second but may blow with a 4w average power for 10 seconds.  Even if you knew the exact figures, it would be hard to monitor during listening...


----------



## eric65

eric65 said:


> Refusal to guarantee a headphone Abyss, for use of a too powerful headphone amplifier?
> 
> You can follow here this interesting discussion on the French forum http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178919262.html#p178919262.
> 
> ...


 
  
 EDIT : you can also read this (in french) : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178919561.html#p178919561


----------



## mulder01

I would wager that no, most people on this forum can't read that...

Are you saying that you think JPS is lying about the headphone being damaged from too much power? Or are you just saying that it sucks that they won't replace a headphone that has died from being fed too much power? Because I'd say that no manufacturer of any audio product would warrant something that the user has over-amped.


----------



## eric65

Over-amplified an Abyss with an amplifier (Viva Egoista 845) outgoing in reality only 5 Watt RMS maximum on the load 40 Ohms (ie 4.3 Watt on 46 ohms) ?


----------



## mulder01

4.3 watts into a headphone is a lot of power. If you look at a headphone power calculator, 3.1 watts will drive the Abyss to a painfully loud level... Whoever owned the Abyss that died may not have been listening that loud, but Joe mentioned to someone on the last couple of pages that an LCD4 (for example) is harder to drive than the Abyss, so if someone had both headphones plugged into the same amp at the same time, but was listening to the LCD4, they may have turned the volume up high to get the LCD4 loud but meanwhile that amount of power will blow up the Abyss. I noticed the difference in power requirements myself when I did an abyss/lcd4 shootout, and made sure that when I wanted to try the LCD4 loud, I unplugged the abyss first. I'm not saying that's exactly what's happened, but pumping too much power through the Abyss is not impossible with a powerful amp (especially if they're not on your head at the time and you don't even realise). I mean, if JPS gets the headphones back and pulls them apart, they would be able to tell the cause of the fault and if a driver has been blown from having too much power through it, then I wouldn't expect them to replace something that's not their fault. It sucks for the person who owns the Abyss, but if it's not the manufacturer's fault, it's not going to be covered. It would be the same for Audeze / Stax / HiFiMan etc etc...


----------



## Stereolab42

mulder01 said:


> Because I'd say that no manufacturer of any audio product would warrant something that the user has over-amped.


 
  
 This. With both drivers burning up in exactly the same way at the same time there is almost zero chance it's a manufacturing defect. The drivers and their cabling are completely independent systems electrically. Either the user was careless or the amp had a fault (perhaps generating DC?)


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The power amp in use is not relevant to assessing a repair, it only helps to explain how it is possible when we have 2 drivers completely blown, as in the trace was so hot it burnt through the diaphragm.

The power required to do this sort of damage is many times this 4.3 watt rumor being thrown around. Upon inspection both drivers saw a very high power surge. This was fast and extremely excessive, under 30 seconds and it was over. If a person were actually listening at these levels...

We're all men here with big boy toys, it's not a big deal, have it repaired, and move on...


----------



## bigfatpaulie

That's what I was thinking as well...
  
 I had a PASS INT-30A driving my Abyss.  Sometimes, late at night after a scotch or two, I pushed the volume (you know how it goes) and the Abyss were fine.  
  
 You would have to be really in the realm of over-the-top excessive with volume to damage these things.  I would also imagine they would distorting before actually blowing.
  
 Sounds like Abyss Abuse to me...
  
 Be more responsible with you $5000 headphones. At least, that's how I see it.


----------



## eric65

Joe, what is the SPL max level (dB) permissible with the Abyss to listen to a symphonic work with a realistic level ?
 Thank you in advance for your reply.


----------



## cladane

joe skubinski said:


> The power amp in use is not relevant to assessing a repair, it only helps to explain how it is possible when we have 2 drivers completely blown, as in the trace was so hot it burnt through the diaphragm.
> 
> The power required to do this sort of damage is many times this 4.3 watt rumor being thrown around. Upon inspection both drivers saw a very high power surge. This was fast and extremely excessive, under 30 seconds and it was over. If a person were actually listening at these levels...
> 
> We're all men here with big boy toys, it's not a big deal, have it repaired, and move on...



I'm not speaking of the 1000USD asked for repair but I'm surprised by the power you say was needed to blow up the two drivers. Many times 4W... I was listening, suddenly sound stopped at the left then right and the volume knob was at twelve knowing that the amp delivers 5W rms into 40 ohms. The TotalDAC outputs 3V.
Music genre Classic. I don't drink. No ear damaged.
Curious event. Let's move on.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

It doesn't really matter what amp was used, the damage speaks for itself, but since for some reason there seems to be ongoing misinformation...

We used the same amplifier you own last year. I'm aware of it's attributes, it's specs are not listed, don't think any of the reviewers ever measured it but they all were allowed to publish 15 watts per channel. It weighs 30 kg (66 pounds) so it certainly has the iron.

We used a Sony DSD player into it, line level output of 2.0 VRMS, volume setting on the amp typically at 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock was louder than most cared for, 12 o'clock (where you listen with 50% higher input voltage) was not bearable. If pushed, it will play louder than any headphone amplifier we have used, and we have all the high power solid states on tap. 

Picture's of that show were posted, note the volume control setting... 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/666765/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread/3135#post_11994465

As a reminder, 3 watts of music power equates to 120 dB peak acoustic output (rock concert levels) and the AB-1266 will play at these levels no problem, although with prolonged exposure at such volume levels permanent hearing damage will occur so it's absolutely NOT a good idea nor practice.

The ongoing concern would be for you to figure out how this happened. Problems like this tend to repeat themselves if nothing changes. You have a local dealer who cares, why not pay a visit and talk to him.


----------



## arnaud

It's funny (or depressing really) how the amplifier is deemed completely safe / sane. People use frigging power amps to drive these ortho headphones and wonder when burning up traces. That reminds me of my speaker days when tweeters would give up in similar fashion when overrun by (a typically clipping) power amp. I certainly had to pay for the tweeter replacement and that seems fair to me (or the amp maker it turns out to be an amp issue).

Don't know for the viva amp but I believe the total dac can pass DC though so in case the amp has no transformer output it could be an issue there?

 Cheers,
Arnaud


----------



## cladane

joe skubinski said:


> The ongoing concern would be for you to figure out how this happened. Problems like this tend to repeat themselves if nothing changes. You have a local dealer who cares, why not pay a visit and talk to him.


 
 Yes, we are here some Abyss + Egoista owners and exchanging daily with the French dealer and VIVA in Italy to understand of course.
 I have asked Alter Audio to get back the Abyss now


----------



## nassq8

Things I've learned from my short, but great, journey in high quality, top of the line headphone gears:

1- Give the voltage/current the respect they deserve (otherwise, either I end up dead, deaf or have my headphone fried)

2- Preserve my hearing as much as it takes (never pass 80 dB, max listing time 3 hours a day, NEVER initiate listening session while having HP over/in ears) 

3- Keep my equipment safe and protected (NO children allowed, cool and dry environment are maintained at listening stations, always be behind power protection/conditioning, NEVER change interconnect cables while amp/dac are on, never plug/unplug HP before turn down volume nob to zero or turn the amp off, other safety measures)

3- Read as much as the time allows about how things work (knowledge is power, best way to avoid mistakes, learn from others' experiences, solve problems, etc)

The above are my survival guide to max the pleasure and minimize risks in this wonderful interest.


----------



## yates7592

FWIW I ran my Abyss off a Headtrip putting out something like 25W and never had an issue even at high gain on quiet recordings.


----------



## deuter

yates7592 said:


> FWIW I ran my Abyss off a Headtrip putting out something like 25W and never had an issue even at high gain on quiet recordings.




The issues with the drivers failing will start with consistent abuse, not a few hours of high volume listening.
Your pair in warranty ?


----------



## mulder01

eric65 said:


> Joe, what is the SPL max level (dB) permissible with the Abyss to listen to a symphonic work with a realistic level ?
> Thank you in advance for your reply.


 
  
 If you're fishing for an exact figure with the intent of being able to quote Joe on later down the track and say "well you told me that it takes X amount of power to fry an Abyss and my headphone amp puts out less than that so it's impossible that I've fed them too much power so you have to fix my broken pair regardless because 'you said' "... then I don't think you're going to get that response.  It seems like the answer to your question though, would be really really really screwing loud.  And it's unlikely that your friend was actually listening that loud but something else unexpected must have happened that caused the copper trace to blow in half.  Maybe he unplugged something while it was running and a big spike went through the headphones.  Who knows.  In terms of power handling though, from my understanding of electrical, it would probably involve a graph with an X axis showing power input and a y axis showing time and the higher the power, the shorter the time and the power handling would be represented by a curve.  There would also be variations between drivers though and who wants to blow up numerous abyss drivers to get that information anyway.  
  


cladane said:


> I'm not speaking of the 1000USD asked for repair but I'm surprised by the power you say was needed to blow up the two drivers.


 
  
 That's actually not bad compared to a new pair.  Less than I thought.
  
  


yates7592 said:


> FWIW I ran my Abyss off a Headtrip putting out something like 25W and never had an issue even at high gain on quiet recordings.


 
  
 The ability of an amplifier to put out 25w doesn't really mean that your Abyss 'runs' at 25 watts though...


----------



## yates7592

deuter said:


> The issues with the drivers failing will start with consistent abuse, not a few hours of high volume listening.
> Your pair in warranty ?


 

 My pair sold!


----------



## Xecuter

Has anyone heard the Abyss with the Eddie Current studio??
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## ufospls2

After just more than a month away from my Abyss, I am back in heaven. The LCD-4 is amazingly good, and I love it, but man, the Abyss is special as well.


----------



## Jozurr

ufospls2 said:


> After just more than a month away from my Abyss, I am back in heaven. The LCD-4 is amazingly good, and I love it, but man, the Abyss is special as well.




Which one would you go for if you had to choose for electronic music? and can you share how comfortable each of them are comparatively. thanks.


----------



## galacticsoap

jozurr said:


> Which one would you go for if you had to choose for electronic music? and can you share how comfortable each of them are comparatively. thanks.


 
  
 I listen to a ton of electronica: Progressive Hose, Tech House, Deep House, Techno etc. The Abyss is unbelievably good. My headphone station also has a 2 channel near field setup with two locally produced mini-monitors that are on-par with Magico Mini's. I can't tell you how often I have to take the Abyss' off to make sure it's not my monitors playing, only to realise that the soundstage and imaging hearing is not coming from my speakers but my headphones. I love them dearly.


----------



## potkettleblack

Unfortunately it looks like I'll be selling my Abyss.

Ive had a neck injury for the past few years and have recently been seeing a physio. During this time I stopped using the Abyss to assist the treatment. When I started using it again, it aggravated the problem. My physio advised me that the 600 + grams on my neck will continue to exacerbate the injury and that I need to stop. Just to be clear, this isn't just a niggle, and could mean the possibility of surgery if I do not treat it properly.

I've gone through a number of headphones since starting this hobby, but getting rid of this one is gonna cut much deeper than all others. The AB-1266 is such a clear winner in my eyes, and the only thing I've heard that I would consider to be 'end-game' worthy.


----------



## Kiats

Sorry to hear that, potkettleblack...


----------



## nassq8

@ potkettleblack, Sorry to hear that  Hope you get better soon. Ya, as much as I love Abyss, I can not have it over my head for more that a half hour without lying down, supporting my head/neck with something.


----------



## Rossliew

Can it be heavier than the LCD XC? That was like a brick on my head..


----------



## potkettleblack

They are probably the same. I think the AB is 660 grams. Outside of my neck playing up, this wouldn't have been an issue. I auditioned the XC a couple of times last year, and I couldn't handle that thing after 15 minutes. Not as comfortable as the AB at all.


----------



## deuter

potkettleblack said:


> They are probably the same. I think the AB is 660 grams. Outside of my neck playing up, this wouldn't have been an issue. I auditioned the XC a couple of times last year, and I couldn't handle that thing after 15 minutes. Not as comfortable as the AB at all.




My experience has been the same.

The XC were ridiculously heavy to an extent where I didn't want to listen to music.
The Abyss are heavy too but balances it nicely so you don't feel the weight as such.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

potkettleblack said:


> Unfortunately it looks like I'll be selling my Abyss.
> 
> Ive had a neck injury for the past few years and have recently been seeing a physio. During this time I stopped using the Abyss to assist the treatment. When I started using it again, it aggravated the problem. My physio advised me that the 600 + grams on my neck will continue to exacerbate the injury and that I need to stop. Just to be clear, this isn't just a niggle, and could mean the possibility of surgery if I do not treat it properly.
> 
> I've gone through a number of headphones since starting this hobby, but getting rid of this one is gonna cut much deeper than all others. The AB-1266 is such a clear winner in my eyes, and the only thing I've heard that I would consider to be 'end-game' worthy.


 
  
 Yikes.  So sorry to hear about your injury.  
  
 Be safe and take care.


----------



## Rossliew

Hence why I sold off the Xc although it does look gorgeous!


----------



## ufospls2

jozurr said:


> Which one would you go for if you had to choose for electronic music? and can you share how comfortable each of them are comparatively. thanks.


 
  
 Probably the Abyss. I love the LCD-4, its more intimate, a closer sound signature, but the Abyss just rocks with electronic. Not that the LCD-4 is a slouch when it comes to electronic music, just a preference. 


galacticsoap said:


> I listen to a ton of electronica: Progressive Hose, Tech House, Deep House, Techno etc. The Abyss is unbelievably good. My headphone station also has a 2 channel near field setup with two locally produced mini-monitors that are on-par with Magico Mini's. I can't tell you how often I have to take the Abyss' off to make sure it's not my monitors playing, only to realise that the soundstage and imaging hearing is not coming from my speakers but my headphones. I love them dearly.


 
 Very well put. Sometimes I go "where the hell did that come from" whilst wearing the Abyss.
  


potkettleblack said:


> Unfortunately it looks like I'll be selling my Abyss.
> 
> Ive had a neck injury for the past few years and have recently been seeing a physio. During this time I stopped using the Abyss to assist the treatment. When I started using it again, it aggravated the problem. My physio advised me that the 600 + grams on my neck will continue to exacerbate the injury and that I need to stop. Just to be clear, this isn't just a niggle, and could mean the possibility of surgery if I do not treat it properly.
> 
> I've gone through a number of headphones since starting this hobby, but getting rid of this one is gonna cut much deeper than all others. The AB-1266 is such a clear winner in my eyes, and the only thing I've heard that I would consider to be 'end-game' worthy.


 
 hope you heal up soon mate.


----------



## potkettleblack

Thanks mate. I will keep a close eye on the Diana. Sold the HD800S recently which was very difficult. This will be about 10X worse.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Kind words from Taiwan...

Abyss AB-1266與Woo Audio WA-234 | U-Headphone 耳機共和國
http://review.u-headphone.com/article/30749/


----------



## Torq

After a couple of weeks of listening exclusively to my LCD-4, mostly on account of me being too lazy to swap amp-settings and move headphones between rigs (yes, I really can be _that_ lazy), I put my Abyss back on my main rig this evening.
  
 Despite having owned them for several months now I'm still enormously impressed by the detail/resolution, the visceral dynamics, the raw impact these things have ... coupled with the incredible emotion they convey ... every time I use them (and now I've moved them back to the main rig, they'll be staying here).


----------



## FiftyKilo

Hi, 
 I useing my Abyss in combination with the Egoista 845 now for nearly one year and still heavy impressed.
  
 Since one month I have connected the new Kimber Axios Headphonecabel to the Abyss and this was a large step forward. Midds and the Trebble is much more detailed and clearer and I can listen again with higher volume. ( its all so clear and full of room/space)
  
 I know that Joe like his Alluminium Cabel but this was for me never the right desiccion. Alluminium is fine for my Airstream Trailer, but not as material for Cabels. I prefer Copper, and the Axios did show me this more than clear.
  
 Yes, the 845 Egoista is a brutal beast, but the normal Volume knob position is around 12 to 14.00 Clock and it is for my ears not to loud. My favorit Pipe Organ Music only works with higher Volume and it makes a lot of fun. I did work sometimes in the summer with the LAu because the Egoista get so hot outside, that my small bedroom ( which is my listening room ) get very quick to warm.
  
 I don't have problems with burnt drivers, but when I listen in the Summer Time ( with hot temp.) for longer than 2 hours, the Diaphgrma get a little weak an this tent in Bass dissortion.
 Than I give the Abyss time to cool down some days and the diaphgrma get his old tension back. Joe did here a very clever job in the construction. 
  
 For the Time without Abyss I use since last year the Pioneer Master I and he is not bad, but its not the same  (Stage and impact ) but nice for some days.   
  
 Ralf


----------



## FiftyKilo

Here some pictures, the cabel is very well made and the wood is stunning. I did ordered two meter length and it works fine from my bed to board on which the Egoista 845 will rest.
  
 Ralf


----------



## FiftyKilo

OK, pictures don't work can't tell you why.


----------



## mulder01

fiftykilo said:


> OK, pictures don't work can't tell you why.


 
  

  

  
 No balanced plug?


----------



## Torq

mulder01 said:


> No balanced plug?


 

 I have both single-ended and balanced cable/amp options for my Abyss ... and they definitely fair better when driven in balanced mode, even when the internal architecture of the amplifier I'm using is single-ended (maxed WA5LE Mk2).  Can't begin to explain why, but level-matched (but not DBT) I still prefer my Abyss with balanced drive.


----------



## FiftyKilo

Egoista 845 is single ended and I don't like to have to much connections on cabel, so this cabel is for my situation the best sounding version.
 It's far better than the stock Abyss cabel with the Y junctions for single-ended. 
 Ralf


----------



## stvc

torq said:


> I have both single-ended and balanced cable/amp options for my Abyss ... and they definitely fair better when driven in balanced mode, even when the internal architecture of the amplifier I'm using is single-ended (maxed WA5LE Mk2).  Can't begin to explain why, but level-matched (but not DBT) I still prefer my Abyss with balanced drive.


 

 Is your WA5LE with component upgraded version? I'm keen to drive in balance too. I've tried to run with Dave> Stock  WA5LE > Abyss with stock cable in balance mode, but still prefer the Dave headphone out. .i know the WA5LE are not in their full potential yet..... component upgrade... tube... i wonder if the the mod version sound better than Dave headphone out.


----------



## Beolab

stvc said:


> Is your WA5LE with component upgraded version? I'm keen to drive in balance too. I've tried to run with Dave> Stock  WA5LE > Abyss with stock cable in balance mode, but still prefer the Dave headphone out. .i know the WA5LE are not in their full potential yet..... component upgrade... tube... i wonder if the the mod version sound better than Dave headphone out.




Not from my comparisons it does not sound better vs DAVE headphone output, its hard for any amp to compare to the ultra high transparancy and depth / clarity / timing that you are loosing when you add a amp to the DAVE, its more if you want a colorisation and more dynamic power impact of the DAVE sound.


----------



## draytonklammer

torq said:


> After a couple of weeks of listening exclusively to my LCD-4, mostly on account of me being too lazy to swap amp-settings and move headphones between rigs (yes, I really can be _that_ lazy), I put my Abyss back on my main rig this evening.
> 
> Despite having owned them for several months now I'm still enormously impressed by the detail/resolution, the visceral dynamics, the raw impact these things have ... coupled with the incredible emotion they convey ... every time I use them (and now I've moved them back to the main rig, they'll be staying here).


 
 I'm still curious about your impressions now.
  
 I know awhile back you put them so close, but if you're going back to the Abyss as a main I guess I wonder why that is.


----------



## stvc

beolab said:


> Not from my comparisons it does not sound better vs DAVE headphone output, its hard for any amp to compare to the ultra high transparancy and depth / clarity / timing that you are loosing when you add a amp to the DAVE, its more if you want a colorisation and more dynamic power impact of the DAVE sound.


 

 Yeah, the Dave clarity and depth is really awesome. Thinking to change my cable order to 6.35mm plug rather to use adapter


----------



## Torq

stvc said:


> Is your WA5LE with component upgraded version? I'm keen to drive in balance too. I've tried to run with Dave> Stock  WA5LE > Abyss with stock cable in balance mode, but still prefer the Dave headphone out. .i know the WA5LE are not in their full potential yet..... component upgrade... tube... i wonder if the the mod version sound better than Dave headphone out.




Yes, my WA5LE has all the component upgrades. It's also running upgraded tubes, though my Takatsukis won't be in place until early next month.

Can't comment on how It sounds compared to vein driven directly out of the DAVE headphone output, but unless that's more powerful than the one on the Hugo and Mojo, I think the dynamics would suffer some (I wouldn't drive my Abyss or LCD-4 directly off either of those devices if I had a choice; not that they're bad but there's a better sense of ease and the dynamics are better via the WA5LE. That'd be at the cost of some transparency I'm sure, at least with the DAVE.


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> I'm still curious about your impressions now.
> 
> I know awhile back you put them so close, but if you're going back to the Abyss as a main I guess I wonder why that is.




They do different things well.

While if I could only have one, I'd go with the Abyss, I get to have both so I swap them around as I fancy (and can be bothered).

For the best dynamics, pace, soundstage, bass detail, upper-end resolution and viscerality of their presentation, I go with the Abyss.

If I want something more intimate, mellow, warmer and seductive I go with the LCD-4.

For example, I like smoky female vocals, especially Jazz, on the LCD-4 as the performance is more in-my-lap. For a Mahler symphony or Opera ... the Abyss ... for Mozart's smaller arrangments the HD800S.


----------



## ufospls2

torq said:


> They do different things well.
> 
> While if I could only have one, I'd go with the Abyss, I get to have both so I swap them around as I fancy (and can be bothered).
> 
> ...


 
 Drayton, this response articulated my thoughts on the LCD-4 vs. Abyss better than I was able to via PM. Intimate, mellow, warmer, seductive are great ways to describe the LCD-4. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Comfort the LCD-4 wins, but the Abyss is far from uncomfortable once you get it set up for your own head, its just a bit clunky is all.


----------



## deuter

The guy tried both hasn't he, but he's not sure what he likes? And wants to read on what others hear.

Everyone's hearing and explanation of sound signature is different, don't get me wrong you can rely on that as the last resort when you have no means to audition but I believe you have owned or do own both.
Doesn't mater if they were present at the same time or not .
If you cannot decide just means either will work as you might not be as picky as some people.


----------



## Beolab

torq said:


> Yes, my WA5LE has all the component upgrades. It's also running upgraded tubes, though my Takatsukis won't be in place until early next month.
> 
> Can't comment on how It sounds compared to vein driven directly out of the DAVE headphone output, but unless that's more powerful than the one on the Hugo and Mojo, I think the dynamics would suffer some (I wouldn't drive my Abyss or LCD-4 directly off either of those devices if I had a choice; not that they're bad but there's a better sense of ease and the dynamics are better via the WA5LE. That'd be at the cost of some transparency I'm sure, at least with the DAVE.




The DAVE is almost twice as powerful as Hugo/TT in real life , and got great power and dynamics, but if you could sacrifice like 20% in transparancey / Depht / clarity / top end resolution for visceral dynamics with colorisation here you have the WA5LE, not the best amp, but a very nice contender if you want more vivid tones, but a bit from perfect performance. 

I use my amps for variation, some days i like the perfect studio class sound and some days i want the vivid colored sound with the visceral tone.


----------



## stvc

beolab said:


> The DAVE is almost twice as powerful as Hugo/TT in real life , and got great power and dynamics, but if you could sacrifice like 20% in transparancey / Depht / clarity / top end resolution for visceral dynamics with colorisation here you have the WA5LE, not the best amp, but a very nice contender if you want more vivid tones, but a bit from perfect performance.
> 
> I use my amps for variation, some days i like the perfect studio class sound and some days i want the vivid colored sound with the visceral tone.


 

 Which amp you suggested? Head trip? LAu?


----------



## Beolab

stvc said:


> Which amp you suggested? Head trip? LAu?




If i name drop some brands/models i like, i get ambushed by 10 keyboard-pirate- youngsters, as have happen in the past. 

So PM me instead  

But the big question is if you like SS or Tube / valve amp signature sound.


----------



## nassq8

Just got a Balanced Beta 22 and dual Sigma 22; and man what an awesome amp, beautifully  designed, does things effortlessly, a lot of warmth and liquid mid with iron grip of both ends. The most striking differences found about it are how it projects soundstage (huge and realistic) and how easy to listen to with incredible control. Marvelous!!
  
 Best match with Abyss and other bright cans compared to amps I tested/have. I think its clean and pure design contribute significantly for its outstanding performance.


----------



## mulder01

torq said:


> For the best dynamics, pace, soundstage, bass detail, upper-end resolution and viscerality of their presentation, I go with the Abyss.
> 
> If I want something more intimate, mellow, warmer and seductive I go with the LCD-4.


 
  
 (In infomercial style voice)
  
 Is your Abyss's soundstage _too big?_
 Is the bass accuracy and impact _too impressive?_
 Do the dynamics and presentation give you _too much realism?_
  
 Well then we have the headphone for you!
 Introducing the new LCD-4!  With less of the stuff every audiophile craves.  If you're not 100% satisfied with what's in the box, drop us an email (or two or three) and for an extra fee we'll send you a balanced cable that we should have sent you the first time!
  
 Call now!


----------



## potkettleblack

All you have to do now is post this in the LCD 4 thread. I'm sure they will join in with the lols.


----------



## Jozurr

potkettleblack said:


> All you have to do now is post this in the LCD 4 thread. I'm sure they will join in with the lols.




Would be interesting to see reactions!


----------



## deuter

Now now, it's their way of doing business. Who are we to judge?


----------



## stvc

beolab said:


> If i name drop some brands/models i like, i get ambushed by 10 keyboard-pirate- youngsters, as have happen in the past.
> 
> So PM me instead
> 
> But the big question is if you like SS or Tube / valve amp signature sound.




I always believe they have their own advantages, and paring is very important too. Just trying to find best paring for my setup.  , but the difficulty is .. There is no away I can try them all.


----------



## mulder01

stvc said:


> I always believe they have their own advantages, and paring is very important too. Just trying to find best paring for my setup.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think you can't go too wrong with any of the big flagship amps that everyone always talks about - LAu, HeadTrip, WA5, Egoista, Dave etc etc etc.  None of them are going to be bad - it just comes down to a matter of preference really.  If you are looking for a certain sound maybe some members can point you in the right direction, but 'best' is pretty subjective.


----------



## matthewhypolite

mulder01 said:


> (In infomercial style voice)
> 
> Is your Abyss's soundstage _too big?_
> Is the bass accuracy and impact _too impressive?_
> ...


 
 This was funny rofl. 
  
 Quote:


torq said:


> For the best dynamics, pace, soundstage, bass detail, upper-end resolution and viscerality of their presentation, I go with the Abyss.
> 
> If I want something more intimate, mellow, warmer and seductive I go with the LCD-4.





>



 But i also pair my Abyss with another headphone to fill in the gaps, the HEK for me.  Pretty much agree with your statement here.


----------



## stvc

mulder01 said:


> I think you can't go too wrong with any of the big flagship amps that everyone always talks about - LAu, HeadTrip, WA5, Egoista, Dave etc etc etc.  None of them are going to be bad - it just comes down to a matter of preference really.  If you are looking for a certain sound maybe some members can point you in the right direction, but 'best' is pretty subjective.


 

 Precisely, actually i think i'm over do lol. I got dave just thinking to go balance, but i it's really difficult to go balance as the Dave headphone out already great and happy with it.. just too greedy lol.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

stvc said:


> Precisely, actually i think i'm over do lol. *I got dave just thinking to go balance*, but i it's really difficult to go balance as the Dave headphone out already great and happy with it.. just too greedy lol.


 
  
 I have a sincere question, and I'm not attacking or mocking you...  Why do you want to use the balanced out?
  
 The reason I ask is because there is this thing on Head-Fi (which I haven't experienced elsewhere, certainly to the degree) that "balanced is better".  It's like an addiction around here.  I read a cable sponsor's post the other day and it was to the tune of "No matter what, balanced is always the better option".  A statement like that is so far out of the realm of the truth, it isn't funny anymore - it's almost propaganda.  How many times have we all read something like, "HD800's sound better balanced" stated as a universality. 
  
 In your case you are thinking of adding an amp (worth throunds) plus interconnects that will likely _degrade _sound versus the output you currently are using all for the sake of "going balanced" (out of a DAC that isn't truly balanced).  Adding an amp after DAVE is fine - say you want more 'life' that tubes add, or slam from big iron, okay...  But to use a different plug type?
  
 I'm just wondering if there was a particular reason, or is it for the sake of...?  
  
 I am honestly trying to understand and I don't mean to come off as argumentative (tone is very hard to convey in a post).


----------



## bigfatpaulie

nassq8 said:


> Just got a Balanced Beta 22 and dual Sigma 22; and man what an awesome amp, beautifully  designed, does things effortlessly, a lot of warmth and liquid mid with iron grip of both ends. The most striking differences found about it are how it projects soundstage (huge and realistic) and how easy to listen to with incredible control. Marvelous!!
> 
> Best match with Abyss and other bright cans compared to amps I tested/have. I think its clean and pure design contribute significantly for its outstanding performance.


 
  
 I had a SuSy Dynahi with my Abyss for a while and it was an excellent amp for the job.  I would imagement the B22 would also work pretty well!  Congrats on a really nice amp!  Look's like a Goldpoint in there - that's a nice choice.  I'm a big fan of them.


----------



## mulder01

Paulie has a good point - adding a link to the chain when it is not needed is probably pretty pointless.  Didn't isquirrel mention a few pages back that the Abyss straight out of the Dave was better than through the Dave then WA234?  And would it be fair to say that the WA5 is going to be a notch below that?
  
 Can be fun to tinker and tube roll.  
  
 Dunno if it will make it "better" though...


----------



## stvc

bigfatpaulie said:


> I have a sincere question, and I'm not attacking or mocking you...  Why do you want to use the balanced out?
> 
> The reason I ask is because there is this thing on Head-Fi (which I haven't experienced elsewhere, certainly to the degree) that "balanced is better".  It's like an addiction around here.  I read a cable sponsor's post the other day and it was to the tune of "No matter what, balanced is always the better option".  A statement like that is so far out of the realm of the truth, it isn't funny anymore - it's almost propaganda.  How many times have we all read something like, "HD800's sound better balanced" stated as a universality.
> 
> ...


 

 You got the point, i like balance all because my IEM. I only own IEM and both of my iem sound better in balance, thus the balance should sound "better" burned in to my mind because of that lol. But now i agree the Dave headphone out and now i understand pairing are very important too.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

stvc said:


> You got the point, i like balance all because my IEM. I only own IEM and both of my* iem sound better in balance*, thus the balance should sound "better" burned in to my mind because of that lol. But now i agree the Dave headphone out and now i understand pairing are very important too.


 
  
 No, your IEM's don't sound better balanced. 
  
 You _amp/DAP_ sounds better balanced - or it's a placebo.


----------



## mulder01

Just gonna leave this here:


----------



## cladane

Hello FiftyKilo,
  
 Quote:


fiftykilo said:


> Hi,
> I useing my Abyss in combination with the Egoista 845 now for nearly one year and still heavy impressed.
> 
> Since one month I have connected the new Kimber Axios Headphonecabel to the Abyss and this was a large step forward. Midds and the Trebble is much more detailed and clearer and I can listen again with higher volume. ( its all so clear and full of room/space)
> ...


 
  
 Getting back my repaired Abyss on monday, drivers burned by the Egoista too powerful output, dixit vox populi here, and happy to read your comment.
 Shows that things are not always so obvious.
 I want to congrat the French importer who paid the repair for those very good headphones.
  
 Thanks for Kimber cables advice.


----------



## up late

that egoista must be some amp


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> Just gonna leave this here:




Haha 

Early Abyss prototype Joe ? 

Open air and straight copper wire ,


----------



## paulchiu

CNET's take on the upcoming Focal Utopia headphone ($4K US) but noted that the Abyss is still the top dog.
 http://cnet.co/269IOZT
  
 Paul


----------



## up late

it has already been released and is available for purchase


----------



## cladane

Yes, I'm enrolled into the home auditioning french tour of the UTOPIA organized by a french reseller. Nice opportunity to compare it with the ABYSS.


----------



## paulchiu

cladane said:


> Yes, I'm enrolled into the home auditioning french tour of the UTOPIA organized by a french reseller. Nice opportunity to compare it with the ABYSS.


 
  
 that is great.  i'd love to hear from someone who has the Abyss.  This Utopia headphone looks so comfortable.  If the imaging is almost like the Abyss, that would be enough for me,


----------



## Xecuter

I wonder if they will do such auditions in Australia? I will send a2a an email, doubt they would though. Too much liability for them.


----------



## ufospls2

So I've mentioned this before I think but have been playing about again and am wondering if anyone has had similar experience. I've just been playing about with EQ and my Abyss. I listen to a lot of bass heavy music (electronic stuff.) Using this as a test track
  
 
  
  
 My LCD-4 can take a hefty boost in the low end before distorting, say +5db or even 6db. The Abyss can only take about +1db, or maybe a little less, before distorting. It is a weird type of distortion with the Abyss, not fuzzy, but like a clicking sound. It is definitely clipping. 
  
 UN-eq'd the Abyss has more bass than the LCD-4, so perhaps there is less room to play with Low end EQ with the Abyss. 
  
 Do you guys get clipping easily if you boost the low end with EQ when using your Abyss with bass heavy music?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The dB boost is really irrelevant as it depends on the driven level before the boost. The level of where your drivers hit their limit of excursion depends on the actual power being delivered to them and how well sealed they are to your head. Better the seal, the more damped the drivers, the more power it takes to hit their limits. Loose fit is the opposite. You can adjust to suit the music and tastes.

Keep in mind you are comparing two totally different headphones with dramatically different impedance, efficiency, and freq response, apples to oranges.


----------



## ufospls2

joe skubinski said:


> The dB boost is really irrelevant as it depends on the driven level before the boost. The level of where your drivers hit their limit of excursion depends on the actual power being delivered to them and how well sealed they are to your head. Better the seal, the more damped the drivers, the more power it takes to hit their limits. Loose fit is the opposite. You can adjust to suit the music and tastes.
> 
> Keep in mind you are comparing two totally different headphones with dramatically different impedance, efficiency, and freq response, apples to oranges.


 
 Interesting stuff. Thanks for replying.


----------



## Beolab

Request: 


*Would be great fun if everyone in this thread could contribute with your top 3 
Abyss songs/tracks that sqeeze out the last drop of your mid evil headphones..
*


----------



## djd1122

beolab said:


> Request:
> 
> *Would be great fun if everyone in this thread could contribute with your top 3
> Abyss songs/tracks that sqeeze out the last drop your mid evil headphones..*


 
  
 Empire Of The Sun - Alive (Zedd Remix)
  
 SBTRKT - Pharaohs
  
 Peter Bjorn And John - Young Folks


----------



## Stereolab42

With the Abyss I find that I'm frequently pausing the music and taking them off because I'm mistaking sounds/sound clips in the audio for things taking place in real life. Is that a thief stealing my car? Cats knocking things over? Is something on fire? (Yeah, I listen to a lot of heavy metal/dark music). No other headphone combines this sort of imaging with such massive dynamics in a way that can so thoroughly fool the brain.


----------



## tassardar

Joining the abyss team tomorrow. Got my abyss lite edition on order and arriving!


----------



## draytonklammer

tassardar said:


> Joining the abyss team tomorrow. Got my abyss lite edition on order and arriving!




If you don't like them for some reason I'll buy it off of you for $3200.


----------



## stvc

tassardar said:


> Joining the abyss team tomorrow. Got my abyss lite edition on order and arriving!




I'm 1 day ahead u


----------



## greekgod

ufospls2 said:


> So I've mentioned this before I think but have been playing about again and am wondering if anyone has had similar experience. I've just been playing about with EQ and my Abyss. I listen to a lot of bass heavy music (electronic stuff.) Using this as a test track
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 Out of curiosity, have you ever tried the Fostex TH900? If so, how do you think they compare? They are known for their bass and I wonder if they would be able to handle more bass before distorting.


----------



## T Bone

beolab said:


> *Would be great fun if everyone in this thread could contribute with your top 3
> Abyss songs/tracks that sqeeze out the last drop of your mid evil headphones..*


 
  
 Reference Recording offers a 24-bit / 176.4 kHz version (buy it here) of Doug MacLeod's album "Exactly Like This"
  
 It's an exceptionally well mastered album that let's you push your gear.
 It's my "go-to" album when evaluating new components.


----------



## mulder01

stvc said:


> I'm 1 day ahead u


 
  
 I'm a bit nervous about you spilling that drink on your Dave....


----------



## tassardar

stvc said:


> I'm 1 day ahead u




noooooooo

Didn't bring my card to pay it yesterday to prevent impulse purchase. But that third audition and cross compare blew that away.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

tassardar said:


> noooooooo
> 
> Didn't bring my card to pay it yesterday to prevent impulse purchase. But that third audition and cross compare blew that away.


 
  
 Haha!  The DAVE is, without a doubt, obviously amazing.  I don't think it takes a discerning ear (I don't have one) to recognize how fantastic it is: it is obvious. 
  
 Next time, bring ALL your pennies!


----------



## tassardar

bigfatpaulie said:


> Haha!  The DAVE is, without a doubt, obviously amazing.  I don't think it takes a discerning ear (I don't have one) to recognize how fantastic it is: it is obvious.
> 
> Next time, bring ALL your pennies!


 
 Na. Headphones at this level all sound so good easily that if everything is bought at a wimp its going to be dangerous. At least where I am, the shops to audition such stuff is just an hr public transport away. Might as well test till Im satisfied haha.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

tassardar said:


> Na. Headphones at this level all sound so good easily that if everything is bought at a wimp its going to be dangerous. At least where I am, the shops to audition such stuff is just an hr public transport away. Might as well test till Im satisfied haha.


 
  
 That's true.  They are some really fantastic options at this level.  It's really, IMHO, preference rather than definitive 'better' and 'worse'.  Some would disagree, however


----------



## tassardar

bigfatpaulie said:


> That's true.  They are some really fantastic options at this level.  It's really, IMHO, preference rather than definitive 'better' and 'worse'.  Some would disagree, however




Everything is great really. Infact without cross comparing, no one is particularly better then the others and preference plays a bigger role. But with abyss pricing falling closer to other flagship with the lite, it's no longer an outlier. Just get whatever I love best. For some reason he1000 and lcd4 after countless test never impressed me.


----------



## draytonklammer

Anyone with an Abyss they want to sell, I will offer $3000, maybe a little bit more to get my hands on it.


----------



## Beolab

tassardar said:


> Everything is great really. Infact without cross comparing, no one is particularly better then the others and preference plays a bigger role. But with abyss pricing falling closer to other flagship with the lite, it's no longer an outlier. Just get whatever I love best. For some reason he1000 and lcd4 after countless test never impressed me.




The Abyss + DAVE + Aurender W20 + Moon 600i it is the best killer High End headphone sound i have ever built / experienced to this date period, 

( incl the expensive fancy pansy Sennheiser Orpheus II 


 A few people with even more expensive systems, are considering to sell out all their ultra expensive gear and just keep the Abyss + DAVE combo, because it tops their 100.000$ systems out, and that is a good statement in my book. 





Have an great listening evening!


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> Anyone with an Abyss they want to sell, I will offer $3000, maybe a little bit more to get my hands on it.


 
  
 Still can't decide hey?
  
 Could you get a pair from that place with the headphone lending library? Cable Co I think?


----------



## tassardar

Got my set today!


----------



## tassardar

Finally I own my own set and can adjust it to its max potential:
  
 This headphone is totally finicky till you get the final fit. Though it sounds great even when not well fitted, it will at most be around the same as others of its class till its fully adjusted to fit the person. This kinda makes it the worst headphone for quick sharing and audition.However once its up and ready, the openness, clarity and bass really is a whole new level. 

 I can understand why most wont like it: Its just a headphone you cant pop on your head and appreciate it. Some effort is needed and this effort may just cause it a customer.


----------



## draytonklammer

Buying an Abyss today, it's about damn time. 

I think my audition was way too short to have recognized the potential. 

I'm hoping to do a comparison between the LCD-4, Abyss, HEK and Focal Utopia.


----------



## tassardar

I didnt like the HEK and LCD4 much. One reason why I own the HD800S. The abyss even in its ill fitted state beats the hd800s to me.
  
 One thing I notice, together with a friend of mine, we find the abyss isnt great at higher volume. I listen to relative low levels and it felt great. My friend listens to it almost 3 color band higher on the Hugo TT (I listen at dark blue (85db), his is the lighter blue (>95db)) and he felt there was some distortion in the bass. Then when he dropped to my level, he thought it was fantastic. We tried on a amp that does 5w per channel and notice this distortion but at a slightly higher volume level. Our initial conclusion is abyss is great in the normal range of listening but if you want to go higher, there is a good chance of distortion at the bass if it becomes really loud.


----------



## draytonklammer

Thanks for the info. I only listen about 70-80Db peak.


----------



## tassardar

Then you will a great experience . Do remember to spend like 20-30min fitting.This is one tough to fit headphone but once done its comfy and sounds great.


----------



## draytonklammer

I plan to do a lot of adjustment. 

For me this has a lot to live up to if it is said to best the LCD-4 in so many ways.


----------



## Beolab

tassardar said:


> I didnt like the HEK and LCD4 much. One reason why I own the HD800S. The abyss even in its ill fitted state beats the hd800s to me.
> 
> One thing I notice, together with a friend of mine, we find the abyss isnt great at higher volume. I listen to relative low levels and it felt great. My friend listens to it almost 3 color band higher on the Hugo TT (I listen at dark blue (85db), his is the lighter blue (>95db)) and he felt there was some distortion in the bass. Then when he dropped to my level, he thought it was fantastic. We tried on a amp that does 5w per channel and notice this distortion but at a slightly higher volume level. Our initial conclusion is abyss is great in the normal range of listening but if you want to go higher, there is a good chance of distortion at the bass if it becomes really loud.




It is not headphones for DJś , more for normal listening levels, that is correct, it get a slight stressed on higher levels if you have a more open seal. 
But nevertheless the best high end headphone money can buy at the moment under right circumstances. 

PS 
Congratulations to the new Abyss and welcome to the club! 



What amp are you using, hard to see on the picture?


----------



## tassardar

Thats a Cayin IHA6. Quite a new stuff and just recently reviewed in in innerfidelity with great results. It does 7w per channel so it provides all the power the abyss needs. It sounds better then Questyle mono channel stack.


----------



## Beolab

tassardar said:


> Thats a Cayin IHA6. Quite a new stuff and Tyll just recently reviewed in in innerfidelity with great results. It does 7w per channel so it provides all the power the abyss needs. It sounds better then Questyle mono channel stack.




Sound like a very nice little amp, how much transparency do you feel you are loosing with the amp against the TT ?


----------



## tassardar

Hmm the only difference I can spot is the lost in the last bit of trailing air of the vocals and treble. So far, off the TT, any headphone that don't need lots of power do not benefit from being ampped. This pretty covers every dynamic headphone i tried. But when power is needed this Cayin is up to the job. If its the final output, I will say maybe there is a lost of a few percent of air in vocals and treble, exchange for energy and bass control. If I don't listen carefully, this amp felt no better or worst for most headphones, but makes a audible difference for planars. The abyss is just monster to drive.


----------



## Beolab

tassardar said:


> Hmm the only difference I can spot is the lost in the last bit of trailing air of the vocals and treble. So far, off the TT, any headphone that don't need lots of power do not benefit from being ampped. This pretty covers every dynamic headphone i tried. But when power is needed this Cayin is up to the job. If its the final output, I will say maybe there is a lost of a few percent of air in vocals and treble, exchange for energy and bass control. If I don't listen carefully, this amp felt no better or worst for most headphones, but makes a audible difference for planars. The abyss is just monster to drive.




Yes i know, the Abyss can be driven by a Mojo or Ifi Imicro with ease, but they need current A drive power to achieve the full potential, thats why i am alternate btw direct drive by DAVE , Wells Audio HeadTrip and the dual mono Moon 600i 2x250watt 4Ohm 140 Amps amp, but even thug i have set my Moon amp on passtrough the pre-amp i loose slightly in clarity and air vs the DAVE. 
But as you said you win in all other areas like grip control , low freq bass , fluid smoothness and calmness.


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> Buying an Abyss today, it's about damn time.
> 
> I think my audition was way too short to have recognized the potential.
> 
> I'm hoping to do a comparison between the LCD-4, Abyss, HEK and Focal Utopia.


 
  
 ha, crikey.  And just cross your fingers that nobody else releases another $4k headphone in the meantime...
  
 Fostex must be about due to throw their hat into the ring


----------



## draytonklammer

I sure hope nothing else will release haha. 

I'm mainly battling the LCD-4 and Abyss. My Abyss arrives Tuesday. I've heard it'll outclass the LCD-4 and give me a special experience in comparison. I love speakers and the loudspeaker comparison excites me. 

I'll have to post my thoughts.


----------



## tassardar

draytonklammer said:


> I sure hope nothing else will release haha.
> 
> I'm mainly battling the LCD-4 and Abyss. My Abyss arrives Tuesday. I've heard it'll outclass the LCD-4 and give me a special experience in comparison. I love speakers and the loudspeaker comparison excites me.
> 
> I'll have to post my thoughts.




I don't think it will out right beat lcd4. That is very personal. But it should give you a special experience


----------



## up late

i don't think that it will either. and yes, personal preference is just that. both are worthy of consideration if you're in the market for a totl planar magnetic can.


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> I sure hope nothing else will release haha.
> 
> I'm mainly battling the LCD-4 and Abyss. My Abyss arrives Tuesday. I've heard it'll outclass the LCD-4 and give me a special experience in comparison. I love speakers and the loudspeaker comparison excites me.
> 
> I'll have to post my thoughts.


 

 They do different things well.
  
 The LCD-4 is more laid back, darker, warmer, smoother, slower-sounding and perhaps a little recessed in the mid-range compared to the Abyss with a much smaller soundstage.  At the same time, the LCD-4's mid-range is pure liquid, they're easier to use, and they're probably a bit more even handed across the board.
  
 Most of those traits can be either positive, negative, or both, depending on what you listen to and what your preferences are.
  
 While I tend to find the Abyss more fun to listen to, my LCD-4 still get plenty of use and might well be the more accurate transducer.


----------



## draytonklammer

It slightly concerns me that everyone who stood with the Abyss is now so fenced 
  
 Regardless, I guess in the end this longer listening session is for me, although I will say some of the buying power came from reading through the last 50-100 pages of the thread.
  
 Hoping I don't have buyer's remorse. I just want to be impressed to say the least.


----------



## tassardar

draytonklammer said:


> It slightly concerns me that everyone who stood with the Abyss is now so fenced
> 
> Regardless, I guess in the end this longer listening session is for me, although I will say some of the buying power came from reading through the last 50-100 pages of the thread.
> 
> Hoping I don't have buyer's remorse. I just want to be impressed to say the least.




It's not that we don't think the abyss is the best, but I Guess abyss is not a new headphone. The hype is gone and all you get is mainly honest opinion. Anyone who bought it now is rather well informed or has auditioned. It's also really hard to say what's better since at this level preference makes one of biggest determinant and not technical prowess. Lastly, JPS do not have a loyal following. I'm sure people who bought abyss here is cause it's good and not cause they support and love this company. With abyss their main headphone, they don't even a house sound to talk about haha.

But hey, if you ask me, I enjoy abyss the most out of all the others. I didn't like lcd4 and he1000 no matter how much I auditioned. Doesn't excite me. I owned the hd800S for 2 months and thought it was the best till I tried the abyss. It Beats the hd800s in very perimeter but the size of the soundstage, probably the absolute wee bit better separation and more forward voice which I enjoyed on limited tracks. Sold my hd800s away just today with no regrets.


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> It slightly concerns me that everyone who stood with the Abyss is now so fenced
> 
> Regardless, I guess in the end this longer listening session is for me, although I will say some of the buying power came from reading through the last 50-100 pages of the thread.
> 
> Hoping I don't have buyer's remorse. I just want to be impressed to say the least.


 

 Not sure what "fenced" means in this case ... "on the fence" perhaps?
  
 In which case, let me clarify ... I'm not on the fence.
  
 If I had to choose between the Abyss and the LCD-4, based on having owned both for months, I'd keep the Abyss without hesitation.
  
 In terms of raw numbers the LCD-4 _might_ edge it out in terms of _technical_ accuracy, but in terms of musical enjoyment and fun the Abyss is, for me, definitely the better headphone for my purposes.  The Abyss still wins, for me, in terms of detail/resolution, soundstage, dynamics, slam, articulation.  The LCD-4 has a more liquid mid-range, but it's also a little recessed in comparison.
  
 I have several headphone rigs, two of which I'd consider "high end" or "TOTL"; they're currently in different locations (I have multiple homes), and the Abyss lives with the rig that I spend the most time with.


----------



## draytonklammer

Awesome, thanks for the clarification. 

Quite honestly I'm excited because I like fun headphones. I think with what I've heard the Abyss will become my go-to. 

Can't wait for Tuesday.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

So here's something interesting about the Abyss...
  
 In adding to the whole 'the Abyss takes time to get the fit right' discussion after switching out my Pass amp for a DAVE I didn't care for the Abyss.  Today I spent some time refitting them and all of a sudden they are excellent again.  It seems the ideal physical fit can also be different based on the source.
  
 In my case, the Pass was much more bass heavy than the DAVE so I found the Abyss thin sounding with the DAVE and missed that big iron sound.  After rotating the pads and adjusting the band that sound is back.  I'm willing to bet that if I wore them like this with the Pass they would be overly bass heavy.  
  
 At least that's my subjective experience.  Fit is indeed a unique thing with these.  They are speaker like in this sense - careful attention to placement is needed 
  
 I'm glad I am loving the Abyss again!!


----------



## draytonklammer

Glad to hear that. Can't wait to mess around fitting it to my head and setup. 

Hoping to enjoy it more than the LCD-4. I like being impressed.


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> It slightly concerns me that everyone who stood with the Abyss is now so fenced


 
  
 There's nothing that I'm on the fence about - I think it's no secret that I love the 1266 - I just avoid chiming in with fanboyish excitement every time someone asks a question because I don't think it helps the thread to have a handful of people repeatedly gushing every couple of posts.  I think this thread has managed to stay fairly honest and level headed (comparatively) which is what a forum should be.  
  
 Having said that, time to step out in front of the Abyss marching band and start twirling the baton because f--k me, they're good.  
  
 Honestly, I have tried most flagship cans, and you pick up one after the other, you think, oh yeah, this one's a it better at X and this one's a bit better at Y and they're all good but just a matter of taste as to which is "better".  But then when I put on the abyss I sat up and was like "oh get f---ed!" and was looking at all the gear that was plugged in to see if there was anything funny going on and was looking at the properties of the song files I was listening to to make sure I wasn't just listening to the best recorded song in the world or something and tried a number of different songs that I thought would be bad recordings to try and trip them up, but no, they were just _that_ much better.  Since then, the HEK came out, the LCD4 came out, I tried pretty much every flagship IEM and my opinion didn't change.  
  
 IMO I think people are being fairly diplomatic and generous when they say the LCD-4 has attributes that some may prefer like being darker and a more intimate soundstage.  Yes, some people may prefer that type of sound, but generally speaking, that's kinda the opposite of what the general audiophile community is looking for.
  
 Maybe the slightly subdue level of enthusiasm on this thread is partly due to what tassardar said earlier about JPS only having one product and no massive army of loyal fans that feel like they have to constantly sing their praises, which, tbh, seems kinda like what is happening over on the LCD-4 thread.  Not trying to have a go at LCD-4 fans, but I just feel like some may have written off the Abyss and gone PFFT! $4.5k! what a joke!  Then Audeze releases something for $4k (about 10% cheaper) and they all hand over their wallets without a second thought.  I would wager that even if some of them did get a chance to audition the Abyss and 4 side by side and prefered the Abyss, they may not say so.  But as much as I like the Abyss, if someone comes up with a better headphone, I will buy it, and I will tell people that I sold my Abyss and bought X and why, but IMO, nothing so far has come close.


----------



## draytonklammer

Thank you for posting that. I am trying to hype myself up. 

I WANT the Abyss to be better to my ears because I love being blown away.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Few things live up hype.  Particularly when we build things up in our minds.  I sincerely hope you aren't disappointed: I know you've been wanting a pair for a long time now.  They are *just* headphones, however. 
  
 Out of interest, what are you using upstream?


----------



## draytonklammer

bigfatpaulie said:


> Few things live up hype.  Particularly when we build things up in our minds.  I sincerely hope you aren't disappointed: I know you've been wanting a pair for a long time now.  They *just* headphones, however.
> 
> Out of interest, what are you using upstream?




Spotify and my 430HAD.


----------



## up late

draytonklammer said:


> Thank you for posting that. I am trying to hype myself up.
> 
> I WANT the Abyss to be better to my ears because I love being blown away.




and blowing your money


----------



## draytonklammer

up late said:


> and blowing your money




How do you mean?


----------



## up late

on totl cans.  but hey, it's your money to blow on whatever you like. hope the abyss lives up to your expectations.


----------



## tassardar

draytonklammer said:


> Thank you for posting that. I am trying to hype myself up.
> 
> I WANT the Abyss to be better to my ears because I love being blown away.


 
 I dont think you will be disappointed if you are the type that likes a little more kick in the music. TOTL cans are all great and if you own others its a little hard to get blown away.  Its probably how long it can stay on your head haha.


----------



## draytonklammer

up late said:


> on totl cans.  but hey, it's your money to blow on whatever you like. hope the abyss lives up to your expectations.




Meh I used to be a watch freak so this hobby is much more practical than a Rolex. 



tassardar said:


> I dont think you will be disappointed if you are the type that likes a little more kick in the music. TOTL cans are all great and if you own others its a little hard to get blown away.  Its probably how long it can stay on your head haha.




I'm hoping for the best.


----------



## up late

draytonklammer said:


> Meh I used to be a watch freak so this hobby is much more practical than a Rolex.
> I'm hoping for the best.




not as expensive yes - more practical no

there is no "best" but hopefully you'll be happy with it


----------



## draytonklammer

I'm sure I'll be very happy with it. 

Every TOTL I've tried has impressed me and I've owned all but the Abyss and have currently settled on the LCD-4 for my taste. 

The Abyss is the last piece of the puzzle before I settle on my summit.


----------



## tassardar

Actually when you tried them all, do write a review. I think it will be very helpful from someone that owns them all. I believe most here audition most of them but wont have long term experience which probably matters more.


----------



## draytonklammer

I'll for sure do so when my Utopia arrives.


----------



## up late

early adopter there. not many utopia impressions around the place.


----------



## draytonklammer

I'm hoping I can write clearly enough to define my Utopia listening experience. 

I also hope I can convey the differences when compared to other TOTL.


----------



## fallofdave

Definitely looking forward to your impressions of the Abyss and Utopia.  Especially in comparison of the HE1000.   Do you have impressions of the LCD4 in comparison to the HE1000?


----------



## draytonklammer

fallofdave said:


> Definitely looking forward to your impressions of the Abyss and Utopia.  Especially in comparison of the HE1000.   Do you have impressions of the LCD4 in comparison to the HE1000?




I owned both for months together. 

I will write one once I have most of them together to try and make it coherent. 

The easiest description I can give writing on my phone instead of a keyboard is the LCD-4 being more intimate with a much more incredible and euphoric midrange while the HE-1000 has a wider soundstage, is more comfortable and lighter. The HEK is also not as quick as the LCD-4. The HEK is also easier to drive.


----------



## tassardar

I written my review of the Abyss
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/abyss-headphones-ab-1266/reviews/16362
  
 Will probably update it again next week. Pretty much spent the last 2 day listening to it for over 6 hrs a day.


----------



## draytonklammer

tassardar said:


> I written my review of the Abyss
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/abyss-headphones-ab-1266/reviews/16362
> 
> Will probably update it again next week. Pretty much spent the last 2 day listening to it for over 6 hrs a day.


 

I loved reading your review thanks for sharing your thoughts. Anymore thoughts when compared to the LCD-4 by chance?


----------



## tassardar

draytonklammer said:


> I loved reading your review thanks for sharing your thoughts. Anymore thoughts when compared to the LCD-4 by chance?


 
  
 I only auditioned the LCD4. Never owned them. But to say I never liked Audeze more laid back and dark nature. Even the latest LCD4 with Dave or the Questyle Current Monoblock stack could not entice me. I kind of rejected it within 20 min. The Abyss hooked me even when its ill fitted in audition condition.
  
 At my region, we could only test at the retail outlets so its hard to give a review when I don't own them and there is lots of ambient noises. The Abyss and LCD 4 is sold by 2 different outlets even though they are just side by side makes it all the harder to cross compare.


----------



## draytonklammer

tassardar said:


> I only auditioned the LCD4. Never owned them. But to say I never liked Audeze more laid back and dark nature. Even the latest LCD4 with Dave or the Questyle Current Monoblock stack could not entice me. I kind of rejected it within 20 min. The Abyss hooked me even when its ill fitted in audition condition.
> 
> At my region, we could only test at the retail outlets so its hard to give a review when I don't own them and there is lots of ambient noises. The Abyss and LCD 4 is sold by 2 different outlets even though they are just side by side makes it all the harder to cross compare.




Gotcha, I am hoping for the best in terms of performance. I am guessing my LCD-4 will be on the chopping block though.


----------



## up late

what does "best in terms of performance" mean to you?


----------



## draytonklammer

up late said:


> what does "best in terms of performance" mean to you?




Honestly I'll know when I listen to it. As always, everyone has preferences.


----------



## up late

indeed they do. what performs "best" for you is a matter of personal preference. which is why the use of the term isn't helpful to anyone else unless they share your taste in cans.


----------



## draytonklammer

up late said:


> indeed they do. what performs "best" for you is a matter of personal preference. which is why the use of the term isn't helpful to anyone else unless they share your taste in cans.




I'm hoping to try and make some specific notes but I won't have the Abyss for a couple days. 

Sometimes my audio grammar gets whack with the comments I'm making. 

All in good time. I need my keyboard to do the best.


----------



## up late

no rush from my perspective as i've heard both. just trying to point out the problem with using the term "best" in such a broad and subjective way.


----------



## draytonklammer

up late said:


> no rush from my perspective as i've heard both. just trying to point out the problem with using the term "best" in such a broad and subjective way.




I'm aware, unfortunately it's just part of my nature. 

Anyways no more bait for you.


----------



## Xecuter

Drayton, I thought you had Abyss in your system before?
  
 The Abyss is still the only can that wowed me when i tried it and still wows me today. There are a lot of opinions out there, most are not worth listening to in all honesty. The only thing you should really trust is your own experience.
  
 They Abyss is one of a kind, it has it flaws but if you are a regular concert goer you will love the presentation the abyss gives. Nothing else has really come close in my books. Maybe 1/50 lcd-3 or 1/20 lcd-4 sounds close. Joe is consistently good, the thing is built to last, it sounds good even out of mediocre sources and scales nicely with upstream gear.
  
 The midrange is the love or hate for the abyss though. Those who like the very bright and treble focused sounding headphones like hd800/s, sr009 say the mid range of abyss is sucked out, or not neutral. Personally I prefer the abyss mid-range but it is not traditional or neutral.
  
 The bass keeps us all coming back.


----------



## draytonklammer

I has a very brief demo of it from a friend passing through town. Literally a few songs. 

Waiting to hear them in a real scenario. They arrive in a couple of days. 

I'm very excited to try something different.


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> I'm aware, unfortunately it's just part of my nature.
> 
> Anyways no more bait for you.


 
  
 Yeah, no more bait.
 Well at least in a few days you'll be able to stay _up late_ listening to _the best headphones ever._


----------



## up late

draytonklammer said:


> I'm aware, unfortunately it's just part of my nature.
> 
> Anyways no more bait for you.




huh?


----------



## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> Yeah, no more bait.
> Well at least in a few days you'll be able to stay _up late_ listening to _the best headphones ever._




I can only assume I'll be doing a lot of listening.

Also need to make sure I get a good fit.


----------



## tassardar

draytonklammer said:


> I can only assume I'll be doing a lot of listening.
> 
> Also need to make sure I get a good fit.


 
 For the fit, I been trying all sort of way. I recommend you give lightly sealed and one with a slight broken seal at the bottom a try. Both sounds different and may add to your enjoyment


----------



## Yoga

More people need to hear the Abyss through the Moon 600i.
  
 It's a KILLER combo; the 600i 'fixes' the mids (fuller and more organic/euphoric) and adds even more control and dynamic power.


----------



## MaggotBrain

Awesome review. The point about the headphones fitting well for long periods without causing your ears to sweat is an excellent one. That in and of itself is one of the main advantages of the Abyss - it is great for lounging around, true, but of all the TOTL headphones I've tried - it does the best at staying on and sounding great even when you're active. If anyone has an elliptical or exercise bike and wants to reward themselves with killer sounding tunes, the Abyss can take it and still sound great for a long time. I have experiences with the Stax where you get a weird headphone skull sucking sound as the headphone pads cling to the noggin with any kind of movement - it's gross, and gross really means gross from someone who calls himself MaggotBrain. 

I did have the chance to compare the Abyss to a number of different heapdphones when on vacation in Japan a few months ago - the LCD4 sounded fuller than the LCD3 did but only with slightly less skull pressure. Instead of having your head in a vice like the LCD3, it reminded me of getting a Thai scalp massage by my wife's grandmother - that may sound pleasant, and most assuredly is good intentioned, but lemme tell you that Old Yai can break apart a crab with her bare hands (and what's left of her teeth) at 94. Want proof?


Don't let your head end up like that crab carcass - get the Abyss instead.


----------



## mulder01

maggotbrain said:


> Don't let your head end up like that crab carcass - get the Abyss instead.


 
  
 Always an unexpected moral to your posts.  Love it.
  
  


yoga said:


> More people need to hear the Abyss through the Moon 600i.
> 
> It's a KILLER combo; the 600i 'fixes' the mids (fuller and more organic/euphoric) and adds even more control and dynamic power.


 
  
 Why not just go straight for the 700i at a measly $19k...


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> Why not just go straight for the 700i at a measly $19k...


 
  
 I was speaking to @Beolab about his recently - I don't think the 700i would offer anything over the 600i, and even if it did, it would likely be marginal, or perhaps even negligible. The 600i is already capable of driving world class 2CH gear, and if you read the Absolute Sound review you'll see how well it fares with it. I'd wager that the 600i already pushes the Abyss to its maximum.
  
 I bought the 600i second hand for €2500. Far cheaper than dedicated TOTL headphone amps, and I bet it would give even the Woo 234 a run for its money. Perhaps even best it, taste depending.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

yoga said:


> More people need to hear the Abyss through the Moon 600i.
> 
> It's a KILLER combo; the 600i 'fixes' the mids (fuller and more organic/euphoric) and adds even more control and dynamic power.


 
  
 I had the 600i at home for a weeks a little while back.  It's an excellent amp - extremely resolving - and does very well with the Abyss. I had it side by side with the Pass INT-30A.


----------



## draytonklammer

I'm hoping my 430HAD will do the job for the Abyss. From what I've read it's a great match without spending a fair amount more.


----------



## Jozurr

Has anyone tried the Abyss with the Liquid Glass? I'm currently using the HE-6 out of the LG as a preamp and Parasound A21 power amp. Not sure if this would work with the Abyss.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

draytonklammer said:


> I'm hoping my 430HAD will do the job for the Abyss. From what I've read it's a great match without spending a fair amount more.


 
  
 It's a far cry from the 600i if that's what you are wondering.  Are you using the built in DAC as well?


----------



## draytonklammer

bigfatpaulie said:


> It's a far cry from the 600i if that's what you are wondering.  Are you using the built in DAC as well?




I am using the built in DAC. I've tried lots of higher end gear but the differences are making it hard for me to justify spending twice the amount of money. 

See, I've tried may tiers of amps and DACs and the differences even from low to high end become negligible with a great headphone. On top of that, my amp and dac are currently considered to be TOTL gear, in other words spending double really won't do much for me personally.

In no way am I going against there being a difference, I can say going from my lower end Schiit stack or something to my Moon there's a very clear difference, but taking it up to the 600i and a suitable dac likely wouldn't be worth it for me personally. The headphone for my ears makes the most massive difference.


----------



## ufospls2

draytonklammer said:


> I'm hoping my 430HAD will do the job for the Abyss. From what I've read it's a great match without spending a fair amount more.


 
 It will more than do the job. Don't let others scare you that it won't.


----------



## draytonklammer

With my post being said, if I were to actually try some higher end gear, what dac do you recommend with the 600i?


----------



## Yoga

draytonklammer said:


> I am using the built in DAC. I've tried lots of higher end gear but the differences are making it hard for me to justify spending twice the amount of money.
> 
> See, I've tried may tiers of amps and DACs and the differences even from low to high end become negligible with a great headphone. On top of that, my amp and dac are currently considered to be TOTL gear, in other words spending double really won't do much for me personally.
> 
> In no way am I going against there being a difference, I can say going from my lower end Schiit stack or something to my Moon there's a very clear difference, but taking it up to the 600i and a suitable dac likely wouldn't be worth it for me personally. The headphone for my ears makes the most massive difference.


 

 I had the 430 HAD before the 600i + Lumin A1. The 430 HAD is an *amazing* all in one for the Abyss. You won't beat it for price/performance ratio.
  
 You do indeed have to spend more to make it worth your while. I managed to find the 600i and A1 for great prices on the second hand market. Again, how much these changes are worth it to you is personal. If I were you, I'd sit back and enjoy the 430 + Abyss for a while :¬)


----------



## draytonklammer

yoga said:


> I had the 430 HAD before the 600i + Lumin A1. The 430 HAD is an *amazing* all in one for the Abyss. You won't beat it for price/performance ratio.
> 
> You do indeed have to spend more to make it worth your while. I managed to find the 600i and A1 for great prices on the second hand market. Again, how much these changes are worth it to you is personal. If I were you, I'd sit back and enjoy the 430 + Abyss for a while :¬)




Like I said I for sure don't doubt that change, but I'm going to see if the Abyss is for me first with my setup. 

I appreciate everyone posting and giving me thoughts. 

Current plan is to use Spotify and some of my flacs through toslink to the 430HAD on low gain. Do you guys think high gain would actually help anything? I've read low gain is technically superior, but I don't know.


----------



## Yoga

You only need to use high gain if your volume isn't loud enough. If your loudest listening volume is 55/60 (an example) in low gain, you won't benefit from using 40/60 on high gain.
  
 Some people like 'spare overhead' in the volume pot, but in these digital volume control systems it matters not. Avoid gain if possible, which you can with the Abyss and 430.


----------



## paulchiu

draytonklammer said:


> Like I said I for sure don't doubt that change, but I'm going to see if the Abyss is for me first with my setup.
> 
> I appreciate everyone posting and giving me thoughts.
> 
> Current plan is to use Spotify and some of my flacs through toslink to the 430HAD on low gain. Do you guys think high gain would actually help anything? I've read low gain is technically superior, but I don't know.


 
  
 Since I cannot use no gain, low gain (14db) is best in my view.  I also do not use Xfeed.
 Cheers,
  
 Paul


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Woah woah woah...
  
 Please don't misunderstand me:_ fear mongering_ isn't my game.  
  
 I was saying that the 600 is a more capable amp than the 430.  I think most would agree, and it should be given the price difference.  I never said one as bad or 'couldn't do the job'.  Please don't put words in my mouth.


----------



## draytonklammer

bigfatpaulie said:


> Woah woah woah...
> 
> Please don't misunderstand me: _fear mongering_ isn't my game.
> 
> I was saying that the 600 is a more capable amp than the 430.  I think most would agree, and it should be given the price difference.  I never said one as bad or 'couldn't do the job'.  Please don't put words in my mouth.




Sorry if you felt I claimed that. In no way did I put words in your mouth, I was just making the claim I'm likely not upgrading from my Moon Neo for awhile so I'd like thoughts based on it. Not it gets trumped by this and this and this.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

draytonklammer said:


> Sorry if you felt I claimed that. In no way did I put words in your mouth, I was just making the claim I'm likely not upgrading from my Moon Neo for awhile so I'd like thoughts based on it. Not it gets trumped by this and this and this.


 
  
 Not at all.  You did not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I can appreciate your position and it is a wise path in my opinion: find the headphone you love first, then build everything around that.


----------



## draytonklammer

bigfatpaulie said:


> Not at all.  You did not :bigsmile_face:
> 
> I can appreciate your position and it is wise path, in my opinion: find the headphone you love first, then build everything around that.




Exactly my plan 

If I like them enough I plan on selling all of my gear and upgrading around it. 

The 600i is one of the amps I've looked at. 
As for dac I haven't decided.


----------



## ufospls2

bigfatpaulie said:


> Woah woah woah...
> 
> Please don't misunderstand me:_ fear mongering_ isn't my game.
> 
> I was saying that the 600 is a more capable amp than the 430.  I think most would agree, and it should be given the price difference.  I never said one as bad or 'couldn't do the job'.  Please don't put words in my mouth.


 
 Apologies. Misunderstood, my bad.


----------



## draytonklammer

Thanks again for everyone providing their thoughts. 

I'm counting down the hours, can't wait to give them a go.


----------



## hpz

Well if this helps with the hype. I sold my 009 + bhse rig and kept the abyss wa5 combo.

YMMV of course.


----------



## draytonklammer

hpz said:


> Well if this helps with the hype. I sold my 009 + bhse rig and kept the abyss wa5 combo.
> 
> YMMV of course.


 
 I like the sounds of that, I know that is said to be the other extreme to the Abyss.
  
 I am assuming that it will "for my preference" be more enjoyable "for me" than the LCD-4.
  
 I want an experience more than just to listen to music.


----------



## djd1122

draytonklammer said:


> I like the sounds of that, I know that is said to be the other extreme to the Abyss.
> 
> I am assuming that it will "for my preference" be more enjoyable "for me" than the LCD-4.
> 
> I want an experience more than just to listen to music.


 
  
 The Abyss gives me an out of my head experience.  My favorite Spotify playlists are Deep Dark Indie and Lush + Atmospheric.  I use https://soundiiz.com/ to convert Spotify playlists into Tidal playlists.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Give this one a go on Abyss.
  
 http://amzn.to/29atns4


----------



## draytonklammer

djd1122 said:


> The Abyss gives me an out of my head experience.  My favorite Spotify playlists are Deep Dark Indie and Lush + Atmospheric.  I use soundiiz.com to convert Spotify playlists into Tidal playlists.




Any Spotify playlist links or anything?

I'd be more than happy to try it out.


----------



## djd1122

draytonklammer said:


> Any Spotify playlist links or anything?
> 
> I'd be more than happy to try it out.


 
  
 Deep Dark Indie
https://open.spotify.com/user/spotify/playlist/69H6RgTVs1jrv1IuuLe1a5
  
 Lush + Atmospheric
https://open.spotify.com/user/spotify/playlist/1SvdCw4FMhqxo7dj8uYNxb
  
 Indie Workout
https://open.spotify.com/user/spotify/playlist/5xtPbr795elinw40DsMnTY
  
 Essential Indie
https://open.spotify.com/user/spotify/playlist/4YFNBPOZhmRmDecGBMuVla


----------



## draytonklammer

djd1122 said:


> Deep Dark Indie
> https://open.spotify.com/user/spotify/playlist/69H6RgTVs1jrv1IuuLe1a5
> 
> Lush + Atmospheric
> ...




Much appreciated I'll check it out on the 5th when I get my Abyss.


----------



## mulder01

yoga said:


> I was speaking to @Beolab about his recently - I don't think the 700i would offer anything over the 600i, and even if it did, it would likely be marginal, or perhaps even negligible. The 600i is already capable of driving world class 2CH gear, and if you read the Absolute Sound review you'll see how well it fares with it. I'd wager that the 600i already pushes the Abyss to its maximum.
> 
> I bought the 600i second hand for €2500. Far cheaper than dedicated TOTL headphone amps, and I bet it would give even the Woo 234 a run for its money. Perhaps even best it, taste depending.


 
  
 You are probably right about the 700i, I wasn't entirely serious...
 That's an awesome buy on the 600i.  I would have bought it too...


----------



## mulder01

Since we are sharing some music, I thought I'd share this one - one of my favorite recordings.  Particularly if you like female vocal or orchestral.  Or poetry.
  
 It even sounds good streaming in 480p off youtube so you know the vinyl/cd sounds amazing.  (AFAIK it's not on any music streaming services)


----------



## tassardar

I'm just a final fantasy fan and the distance world albums are my cup of tea haha


----------



## draytonklammer

Starting to countdown the hours. 

Can't wait to give these a real shot.


----------



## zimzim2001

I have a WA5 LE (old version) and I'm wondering if it's sufficient to power the Abyss. 
  
 My other option at the moment is BHA-1.  I'm wondering if I'm looking at a new amp if I take the plunge.
  
 Any opinions?


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> Starting to countdown the hours.
> 
> Can't wait to give these a real shot.


 
  
 Boy your mailman must be punctual...
  
 Sometimes stuff turns up a week or more after I expected it to


----------



## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> Boy your mailman must be punctual...
> 
> Sometimes stuff turns up a week or more after I expected it to




It was originally scheduled to arrive tomorrow but they apparently tried to deliver it Saturday. 

I am getting home from vacation tomorrow and running straight to the post office to pick it up.


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> It was originally scheduled to arrive tomorrow but they apparently tried to deliver it Saturday.
> 
> I am getting home from vacation tomorrow and running straight to the post office to pick it up.


 
  
 Ah right.  Did you find it hard to enjoy the last part of your holiday knowing your abyss was at home waiting for you and you couldn't hear it?  
  
 Hopefully the bar hasn't been set too unrealistically high.  At this point I kinda feel like we've talked it up too much for you to get blown away... Like your expectation level will be over 9000...


----------



## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> Ah right.  Did you find it hard to enjoy the last part of your holiday knowing your abyss was at home waiting for you and you couldn't hear it?
> 
> Hopefully the bar hasn't been set too unrealistically high.  At this point I kinda feel like we've talked it up too much for you to get blown away... Like your expectation level will be over 9000...




Very slightly impeached upon yeah haha. Really want to give them a go. 

As for expectations, I honestly don't have high expectations believe it or not. I've always been good at setting the bar low for everything in my head. I also know to me the LCD-4 is the best I've heard and it blows me away Everytime I listen to it. 

That being said, I am hopeful that the Abyss will surpass it for my preference because that would truly take me aback.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

draytonklammer said:


> Very slightly impeached upon yeah haha. Really want to give them a go.
> 
> As for expectations, I honestly don't have high expectations believe it or not. I've always been good at setting the bar low for everything in my head. I also know to me the LCD-4 is the best I've heard and it blows me away Everytime I listen to it.
> 
> That being said, I am hopeful that the Abyss will surpass it for my preference because that would truly take me aback.


 
  
  
 They are terrible.  The Abyss are the worst headphones in the world*.
  
 See?  I'm helping!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
*Based on exclusion of all other headphones in the world.


----------



## draytonklammer

I knew you had my back haha. 

I'm actually kind of telling myself the LCD-4 will be better for me so that when (if ) the Abyss is better I'll be shocked.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

In all seriousness both are top-shelf headphones.  You really can't go wrong either way.  You are in a lucky position to have both on hand so that you can take your time and make a careful decision.


----------



## draytonklammer

bigfatpaulie said:


> In all seriousness both are top-shelf headphones.  You really can't go wrong either way.  You are in a lucky position to have both on hand so that you can take your time and make a careful decision.




It should be fun trying to put them up against each other. 

Going to have some others in the mix potentially as well. Pretty much everything except the k1000 and Stax.


----------



## warrior1975

up late said:


> no rush from my perspective as i've heard both. just trying to point out the problem with using the term "best" in such a broad and subjective way.




How did you like/dislike the Abyss? How would you compare it to your Th900? I know, 2 different price points and 2 very different styles. 

I've been debating these for quite some time, as my ever growing stable of IEMS has to come to an end. 

Will I get a decent idea of the sound of these with a mojo as an amp for now? If I do decide to purchase the Abyss, what would be a good amp to start with?id like to stay in the $3-4k range. I love bass, while still enjoying nice mids, and good treble extension without being sibilant. More bass as long as it doesn't interfere with the rest of the spectrum. 

If I go this route, this will be my work desktop setup. Space doesn't matter, I have plenty. I work off of a laptop, otherwise my desk is empty.


----------



## ufospls2

zimzim2001 said:


> I have a WA5 LE (old version) and I'm wondering if it's sufficient to power the Abyss.
> 
> My other option at the moment is BHA-1.  I'm wondering if I'm looking at a new amp if I take the plunge.
> 
> Any opinions?


 
 If I remember correctly Woo Audio has used the WA5 LE and Abyss at shows to showcase what they are both capable of. I'm not sure if that was the old version or new version. In theory, it should pair wonderfully with the Abyss.


----------



## zimzim2001

ufospls2 said:


> If I remember correctly Woo Audio has used the WA5 LE and Abyss at shows to showcase what they are both capable of. I'm not sure if that was the old version or new version. In theory, it should pair wonderfully with the Abyss.


 

 The new version has selectable high or low power, impedance and level, the old version just has high and low output jacks.  I have a feeling the old version is plenty for the Abyss, but I'm not sure.


----------



## Revogamer

The only issue with the old WA5 LE is that it doesn't have the high power output mode at all, so is only able to output around 1.5W instead of the 8W in full power mode so that could be an issue?


----------



## tassardar

revogamer said:


> The only issue with the old WA5 LE is that it doesn't have the high power output mode at all, so is only able to output around 1.5W instead of the 8W in full power mode so that could be an issue?




It's not so much of how much power, more like how effecient it handles them. 1.5w is more then enough as Long as the amp can handle it well. Before it reaches 1.5w, your ears would have been blown lol


----------



## draytonklammer

Which side does the Abyss logo on the headband face in terms of what's the front?


----------



## tassardar

You should be able to read it from TOP down before placing it on your head. The jack will face slightly forward. 





draytonklammer said:


> Which side does the Abyss logo on the headband face in terms of what's the front?


----------



## draytonklammer

tassardar said:


> You should be able to read it from TOP down before placing it on your head. The jack will face slightly forward.




Thank you. I know somewhere I heard it technically doesn't matter, but even if it didn't it would bug me to know I was potentially not wearing it correctly.


----------



## tassardar

I





draytonklammer said:


> Thank you. I know somewhere I heard it technically doesn't matter, but even if it didn't it would bug me to know I was potentially not wearing it correctly.




Well that's true since it only goes forward just a little. I tried rotating and it really doesn't matter. Left and right is based on the cable rather then the headphone


----------



## up late

warrior1975 said:


> How did you like/dislike the Abyss? How would you compare it to your Th900? I know, 2 different price points and 2 very different styles.
> 
> I've been debating these for quite some time, as my ever growing stable of IEMS has to come to an end.
> 
> ...




it's been a long time since i auditioned the abyss. i liked its presentation overall. i think it might be wise to take this offline.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

draytonklammer said:


> Which side does the Abyss logo on the headband face in terms of what's the front?


 
  
 This was helpful for me.


----------



## draytonklammer

T-minus 15 hours until use. 

Time for bed to make my five hour car journey home. Spent the 4th on Flathead Lake.


----------



## draytonklammer

Abyss is staying, LCD-4 is going.


----------



## Yoga

draytonklammer said:


> Abyss is staying, LCD-4 is going.


 

 There is no other headphone like the Abyss, it's in a class of its own.
  
 You can compare LCD to HEK to whatever, but you can't do the same with the Abyss - it's a different sound entirely. And if you love it, there's no choice but to buy it :¬)


----------



## draytonklammer

yoga said:


> There is no other headphone like the Abyss, it's in a class of its own.
> 
> You can compare LCD to HEK to whatever, but you can't do the same with the Abyss - it's a different sound entirely. And if you love it, there's no choice but to buy it :¬)


 
 I'm now a very proud owner.


----------



## Yoga

draytonklammer said:


> I'm now a very proud owner.


 

 Enjoy!


----------



## ufospls2

draytonklammer said:


> I'm now a very proud owner.


 
 Sweet! Glad you are happy with it


----------



## draytonklammer

Slowly trying to get the correct fit.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Congrats, DK!  I hope they live up to your expectations!!
  
 Fit is a really, really tricky thing (at least I think so) with them.  It took me a solid week of just experimenting with the fit, angle, pad position, modified head support and so on until I was happy with the fit and sonics.


----------



## tassardar

draytonklammer said:


> Abyss is staying, LCD-4 is going.




That is one fast decision


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> Abyss is staying, LCD-4 is going.


 
  
  


draytonklammer said:


> Slowly trying to get the correct fit.


 
  
  


tassardar said:


> That is one fast decision


 

 They must have made a real impression to make a decision that quickly and while still playing with the fit!
  
 One of the nice things with how adjustable they are is the you can change the way they fit to better suit your preferences for different styles of music.  Something as simple as having an open seal when you want a weightier presentation, a fully closed seal when you want something a little less energetic or a very light/partial seal when you want something in between.  And that's just playing with the seal ... canting the frame lets you change the way the soundstage is presented as well, which is a very nice feature.


----------



## Thenewguy007

draytonklammer said:


> T-minus 15 hours until use.
> 
> Time for bed to make my five hour car journey home. Spent the 4th on Flathead Lake.


 
  
 You don't feel the mids are a bit recessed?


----------



## tassardar

thenewguy007 said:


> You don't feel the mids are a bit recessed?




Actually they are a little recessed but it also depends on your fitting I feel. If you get a light but full seal, you will reduce the bass just a little which makes the mids more even


----------



## bigfatpaulie

I appreciate why people feel that the Abyss have recessed mids, but I feel it is a bit like saying the HD800's have muted bass.
  
 Yes, they can, and in most cases, they do.  But, in the right setup, they don't.
  
 At least, IMHO/experience.


----------



## mulder01

ha that was fast... IMO the difference is immediately obvious though.


----------



## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> ha that was fast... IMO the difference is immediately obvious though.


 
 They are for sure different beasts, but the LCD-4 is more like a bear whereas the Abyss is a dragon.
  
 My current fit feels pretty good, but I will probably have to continue messing around with it.


----------



## tassardar

draytonklammer said:


> They are for sure different beasts, but the LCD-4 is more like a bear whereas the Abyss is a dragon.
> 
> My current fit feels pretty good, but I will probably have to continue messing around with it.


 
 I will say is if you have a preference to more exciting sound, with more impact and beat to the music, the abyss does a great job and still sound like a TOTL.
  
 Fit is Abyss best and worst thing. Its hard to try on, hard to understand, hard to adjust, uncomfortable at start and compromises sound. Once well done, its comfortable, easy to take on and put down, holds its adjustment, insensitive to positioning, sounds like the best thing ever haha.


----------



## Yoga

thenewguy007 said:


> You don't feel the mids are a bit recessed?


 

 Fit is important. It's a shame so many people tried on the Abyss at shows and whatnot and left feeling underwhelmed. In some of the photos, the Abyss were *clamped* to their heads.
  
 The amp makes a difference to the mids. The Moon 600i transforms them. It's really quite magical.


----------



## matthewhypolite

draytonklammer said:


> They are for sure different beasts, but the LCD-4 is more like a bear whereas the Abyss is a dragon.


 
  
 Awesome analogy dude, rofl!
  
 Glad you like them.
 I'll echo everyone's sentiments when i say, Fit is highly important with the abyss, im also surprised you made your decision to ditch the lcd4 that fast. too me a good month of abyss tinkering to get the perfect fit.
 That fit came with a small modification for me. See pictures below of the mod. The height of the abyss just wasnt right for my head, and with the lack of vertical adjustment, it was really hard to get right. With this small mod using some wirestraps. I was able to dial in the perfect height, and the headphones just opened up to amazing levels once i discovered this fit. i also have the cans slightly angled towards the front, so a small 25 degree angle or so in the hinge at the top. I've burnt this fit setup into my memory in-case the abyss is ever tinkered with by my friends 
  

  

  

  
  
 Having said that about my mod, i've heard the new short headband is also a solution for my particular problem, and i should be collecting one today to test. So i'll see how that does.
  
 Also, the area where the cable connects to the abyss is what i use to determine the front of the headphone, as it angles the cable slightly towards the front. You don't want the cables angled towards your body. 
  
 When comes to audio, ive post many opinions about the Abyss on this thread in the past, but again, there's nothing like an abyss. All the flagship headphones have defining characteristics, but i think you've said it right, the abyss is at the top of the food chain from what i've heard, an unapologetic dragon. But there are times when i prefer something softer (certain genres of music, some games, studying, etc, you cant study whiles wearing an abyss. not gonna happen lol. HP are too engaging.) and that's when i put on the HEK. I'm glad i kept both.
  
 Onto my music test recommendations for the abyss: (yes i know this is one long post, i just got caught up on the last 15 pages of this thread  )
  
 Bass and Range:
 http://www.hdtracks.com/bad
 All the songs shine with abyss, but in particular, Speed Demon and Dirty Diana​  
 Violins:
 http://www.hdtracks.com/the-four-seasons-the-vivaldi-album
  
 Violins, Range:
 https://www.amazon.com/Melodies-Hyrule-Music-Legend-Zelda/dp/B00I9LFZP2/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1467813292&sr=8-5&keywords=taylor+davis
  
 Bass: (the abyss kicked my butt listening to these 2 below albums. truly amazed at the bass performance every time)
 http://www.qobuz.com/ie-en/album/ptx-vol-1-pentatonix/0886444622165
 http://www.qobuz.com/ie-en/album/ptx-vol-2-pentatonix/0886444622547
  
  
 That's it 
 Enjoy your abyss, and be warned, there's a scary amount of performance left to extract when you find the perfect fit.


----------



## draytonklammer

tassardar said:


> I will say is if you have a preference to more exciting sound, with more impact and beat to the music, the abyss does a great job and still sound like a TOTL.
> 
> Fit is Abyss best and worst thing. Its hard to try on, hard to understand, hard to adjust, uncomfortable at start and compromises sound. Once well done, its comfortable, easy to take on and put down, holds its adjustment, insensitive to positioning, sounds like the best thing ever haha.


 
 Completely agree. I've tried so many fits and I still think there's room for improvement.


----------



## draytonklammer

matthewhypolite said:


> -SNIP-


 
 Do you mind posting closer pictures regarding the vertical mod?
  
 The Abyss for me seems like it could use a slight vertical adjustment as there's always a bit of extra pressure above my ear (it also seems to hang very slightly on the top of my ear) and the bottom seems to generally be open unless I move the cushions to a different position.


----------



## ufospls2

After spending a week solely listening to the LCD-4 I had a session with my Abyss and desktop set up last night. It still makes me happy every time I listen to it. If you can get a high quality version of the song below, its sure to give your Abyss a workout
 .


----------



## matthewhypolite

draytonklammer said:


> Do you mind posting closer pictures regarding the vertical mod?
> 
> The Abyss for me seems like it could use a slight vertical adjustment as there's always a bit of extra pressure above my ear (it also seems to hang very slightly on the top of my ear) and the bottom seems to generally be open unless I move the cushions to a different position.


 
 This is exactly what happened to me. Always rubbed on the top of my ear. For a 30 minute session its ok, once i listen longer than that, it becomes very irritating.
  
 I'll take some close up detailed pictures of the mod later tonight and post them. I'll also give some feedback and picture comparison with short headband vs long.


----------



## mulder01

This is the original headband mod posted ages ago which is a bit more professional looking -
  

  
  
 So I gave it a try with a quick cable tie job -
  

  
 Which I have since replaced with velcro so I can adjust it if someone else wants to have a listen


----------



## bigfatpaulie

I've done something similar by removing the top middle of the three screws on the inside band just above the driver plate.  I cut down some of the plastic 'livestrong' type bracelets to make one loop on each side.


----------



## matthewhypolite

mulder01 said:


> This is the original headband mod posted ages ago which is a bit more professional looking -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yea, the original is well done, but requires creating the block. I was going to move to velcro myself, but i had my wire straps dialed in and i just didnt move it. If the short headband doesnt work for me, ill switch to velcro, need to undo the wirestraps for the short head band test anyways.


----------



## matthewhypolite

bigfatpaulie said:


> I've done something similar by removing the top middle of the three screws on the inside band just above the driver plate.  I cut down some of the plastic 'livestrong' type bracelets to make one loop on each side.


 
  
 Pix please.


----------



## draytonklammer

I found that if I twist the headband once around the sound quality is increased and it doesn't rest on my ears as much (if any, can't 100% tell)
  
 More comfortable for sure.
  
 I don't trust it though, feels like this method will break the band.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

I was doing the twist and double twist you speak of at the beginning as well - I was also concerned with the wear on the rubber rings.  I tried a bunch of silly stuff to make it fit, I even used a cut down toilet paper roll to attempt a better fit.
  

  
 (I wish I was kidding)
  
 But this is what I do now:
  

  

  

  

  
 It works extremely well for me.  I would like to get a short Abyss band, but since doing this I don't see a real need anymore, to be honest.
  
 I hope this helps!


----------



## draytonklammer

I wonder if the short band would help.
  
 If it does, I am tempted to order one.
  
 Otherwise if there's a fairly easy mod...


----------



## bigfatpaulie

You can order one from Joe directly.


----------



## draytonklammer

Do you think that would be my solution if I current have to flip this band?
  
 Any idea how much it would be?
  
 Already messaged Joe so I am now waiting.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

You have a PM.


----------



## djd1122

draytonklammer said:


> I found that if I twist the headband once around the sound quality is increased and it doesn't rest on my ears as much (if any, can't 100% tell)
> 
> More comfortable for sure.
> 
> I don't trust it though, feels like this method will break the band.


 
  
 I twist the headband once around also for a more comfortable fit.  I have the short band but get a hot spot on the top of my head after a while so I've been satisfied with twisting the factory headband once around. 
  
 For example, the Abyss logo is on the top of the band so I twist it around until I can see the Abyss logo again.


----------



## draytonklammer

djd1122 said:


> I twist the headband once around also for a more comfortable fit.  I have the short band but get a hot spot on the top of my head after a while so I've been satisfied with twisting the factory headband once around.
> 
> For example, the Abyss logo is on the top of the band so I twist it around until I can see the Abyss logo again.


 
 That's currently what I am doing, but I worry about it eventually breaking the bands.


----------



## draytonklammer

Just purchased the shorter headband. Hoping for the best.


----------



## tassardar

Thinking to diy an adjustable headband hmm. The abyss isn't friendly to letting your friends test it haha


----------



## Arcam-Voice

Here's Arcam's pure Class-A headphone amp the rHead, driving the mighty Abyss with ease! this is an amazing combo. Arcam's CDS27 CD/SACD/Streamer is the source. Thanks to Hi-Fi Lounge - http://hifilounge.co.uk for the photo.


----------



## Sabenza

I have recently acquired an Abyss AB-1266 and is in the process of having it burn-in (so far 70 hours or so).  I have 2 or 3 cables from my LCD-3F and LCD-4 (including Nordost Heimdall 2, Entreq Challenger, and the original LCD-4 cable (current non-blue version)) and the Audeze connectors do look similar to those of the Abyss.  Does anyone know if I can use the Audeze cables with the Abyss?  Many thanks.


----------



## tassardar

sabenza said:


> I have recently acquired an Abyss AB-1266 and is in the process of having it burn-in (so far 70 hours or so).  I have 2 or 3 cables from my LCD-3F and LCD-4 (including Nordost Heimdall 2, Entreq Challenger, and the original LCD-4 cable (current non-blue version)) and the Audeze connectors do look similar to those of the Abyss.  Does anyone know if I can use the Audeze cables with the Abyss?  Many thanks.




My understanding is you can't. They look the same but pins are slightly different.


----------



## Sabenza

Thanks for your reply, Tassardar.


----------



## stvc

draytonklammer said:


> Just purchased the shorter headband. Hoping for the best.


 

 Where you get them?


----------



## draytonklammer

stvc said:


> Where you get them?


 
 Just PM Joe asking about it.
  
 Hoping it works for me, I should know soon.


----------



## Beolab

arcam-voice said:


> Here's Arcam's pure Class-A headphone amp the rHead, driving the mighty Abyss with ease! this is an amazing combo. Arcam's CDS27 CD/SACD/Streamer is the source. Thanks to Hi-Fi Lounge - http://hifilounge.co.uk for the photo.




Driving with ease, it is a little overstatment, because i sell Arcam incl rHead , but it is a nice amp, but the Cavalli Liquid Carbon drive the abyss better if we are speaking of small amps for example.


----------



## Tadamn

scolaiw said:


> _Welcome to the official *JPS Labs: Abyss AB-1266 Appreciation & Impressions Thread*! In here you will find all things Abyss. Feel free to post your own impressions of the Abyss as well as discuss anything you like (as long as it is at least slightly related to the Abyss). To begin with, my very own impressions of the Abyss after the first few times I heard them..._
> _[Mod Edit: Shortened quoted post.]_


  

 It weighs 620 gms. OMG.


----------



## mulder01

tadamn said:


> It weighs 620 gms. OMG.


 
  
 The old 'weight = quality' theory rings true here.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

In contrast, the average adult human head weighs 4500-5000 grams, or about 11 lbs.


----------



## mulder01

Hey DK, can I ask what do you think it is that made your initial impressions of the Abyss not so great.  Regularly we see people say that they tried the abyss at a show or meet or whatever and it's good but it's _just good_ and not the headphone for them.  You had kind of the same thoughts after your initial audition and thought that you preferred the LCD-4, but now that you have them both at home at the same time off the same gear your preference did a complete 180, to the point where you were willing to sell the LCD-4 basically immediately.  What do you think it was that gave you a so-so first impression?  A noisy environment?  Bad fit?  Lack of references on-hand?  Too much time between comparisons?  Unfamiliar music choice?  Anything in particular that you think got you and the Abyss off on the wrong foot?  Just curious as every now and again, someone comes along and says that they heard the AB and it wasn't great, and I have a bit of trouble understanding why.  Especially now that I've seen your turn around, I wonder if you have a theory as to why...


----------



## draytonklammer

I honestly think it could have been the fit. When these are fitted a certain way it sounds fairly similar (still slightly more preferred than the LCD signature for me) whereas with my current fit I can't justify even taking the LCD-4 back out. I keep giving it a shot and taking it out daily, giving it some songs to compare with A and B (even blind, it's obvious which is which) but I get disappointed and pack it back up.
  
 Even now as an owner (I realize of only a few days, but Jesus this is finicky) I still don't feel like I have a perfect fit. I feel like my fit is an 8/10 or so when it should be a 10/10 of course.
  
 I can say to the sides of my head the LCD is more comfortable, but to my neck the Abyss is more comfortable.
  
 ------------
  
 On a side note, do you guys know of any purple colored cables I could replace the stock with? I want to make the Abyss a bit more of my own.


----------



## matthewhypolite

bigfatpaulie said:


> But this is what I do now:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Mods like these are the best. i tried the twist method and all the others as well. Doing the above with wire straps / velcro and getting that curve in the headband as well as the ability to incrementally dial in the exact height required, just works. Turned the abyss from uncomfortable to not even being and issue for me.


----------



## draytonklammer

I am hoping the shorter head band I get corrects the issue for the most part.


----------



## tassardar

The problem with shorter or tighter band is it creates a hotspot on the head


----------



## Stereolab42

tassardar said:


> The problem with shorter or tighter band is it creates a hotspot on the head


 
  
 Not if your head is extremely narrow like mine.


----------



## Xecuter

@draytonklammer The shorter headband sorted all my fit issues with the Abyss. Now i just need to find an amazing quad 2a3 to go with my new amp!


----------



## stvc

draytonklammer said:


> Just PM Joe asking about it.
> 
> Hoping it works for me, I should know soon.


 

 Thanks, i just ordered one from Joe.. but no listening to abyss now as my Dave went back for repair.


----------



## draytonklammer

I get my headband today so I will be sure to update with details.


----------



## Beolab

stvc said:


> Thanks, i just ordered one from Joe.. but no listening to abyss now as my Dave went back for repair.




Sorry to hear, what happened to the DAVE?


----------



## stvc

beolab said:


> Sorry to hear, what happened to the DAVE?


 

 There is current leakage on headphone out.


----------



## Beolab

stvc said:


> There is current leakage on headphone out.




Oh thats not funny, do you hear huge distortion and noise on the output or?


----------



## stvc

beolab said:


> Oh thats not funny, do you hear huge distortion and noise on the output or?


 

 it would get spark and short your ear, just like something bite your ear with Abyss, noise on the left channel with IEM.


----------



## Kiats

Sorry to hear that, Steve. Literally shocking news. Hope it didn't damage the Abyss in the process...


----------



## stvc

kiats said:


> Sorry to hear that, Steve. Literally shocking news. Hope it didn't damage the Abyss in the process...




The abyss still work perfectly


----------



## draytonklammer

The shorter headband was the answer to my problem.
  
 Thanks Joe! Abyss sounds even better and is more comfortable now.
  
 My only regret is not getting an Abyss sooner.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Tried the new headband, and its better, but still not perfect for me, i may play with the fit a bit more to see how i get along. but for now the wirestrap mod is still the sweetspot for me.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Better now as never!
The Abyss is my All Time Favorite. And I also have SR009. Sure technically a better headphone but not so fun sounding with metal like the Abyss. The Abyss sounds far better and faster to me than the measurements show! Even in soundstage it beats the HD800. You can not get the visceral impact from loudspeakers in an headphone. But the only headphone comes near to it is the Abyss without doubt!


----------



## Beolab

trance_gott said:


> Better now as never!
> The Abyss is my All Time Favorite. And I also have SR009. Sure technically a better headphone but not so fun sounding with metal like the Abyss. The Abyss sounds far better and faster to me than the measurements show! Even in soundstage it beats the HD800. You can not get the visceral impact from loudspeakers in an headphone. But the only headphone comes near to it is the Abyss without doubt!




Add a visceral amp like the 600i and it tops many speakers when it comes to "viscerality"


----------



## up late

bollocks


----------



## Yoga

up late said:


> bollocks


 

 I know one shouldn't feed the trolls, but unless you've experienced something personally, your opinion is guesswork. When proffered as fact, it becomes arrogance.


----------



## potkettleblack

I've never known a user to contribute so little. 

I've disagreed, exaggerated and argued with a lot of people on here, but I'd like to think that any time I've ever auditioned something and provided feedback, it is appreciated by those who are curious and who are unable to hear certain headphones.

To come on here *solely* to disagree and be passive aggressive is really indicative of a miserable, bitter person.

Ultimately it doesn't need to be pointed out; I'm sure he brings himself down enough in the real world.


----------



## discodelico

I don't r read comments about the SUPERCONDUCTOR Cables.
Has anyone upgraded Abyss with these cables?


----------



## up late

yoga said:


> I know one shouldn't feed the trolls, but unless you've experienced something personally, your opinion is guesswork. When proffered as fact, it becomes arrogance.




the abyss is visceral for a headphone. it's one of its strengths, but no headphone that i've heard, including the abyss, can match a loudspeaker in this area of performance. i honestly assumed that this was a given and not up for serious debate - hence my previous post. even tyll hertsen acknowledges this in his latest innerfidelity article. it doesn't sound the least bit arrogant coming from him.


----------



## Trance_Gott

beolab said:


> Add a visceral amp like the 600i and it tops many speakers when it comes to "viscerality"


 
 I have to disagree. No amp, no cable on this world can you let feel the sound impact all over your body. Bass shaker are only simulations and never perfect. And for me the effort it will be never worth and nonsense!
 Additionally a soundstage in front of your head like with speakers is only possible with DSPs like the Realizer. That are two negative points of all headphones. But personally I'm only listening to headphones because of three positive points. Isolation, i need no perfect acoustical room and mobility (can lie and hear in bedroom). But if I had a perfect room with isolation from my family (I hear a lot metal music and they don't like this kind of music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and loud music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) I maybe preferred speakers.
 Headphones are wonderful instruments to hear music for me but it is a completely different presentation as a speaker. And I also understand that people don't come to terms with headphones. I personally like and have no problems with the in head localisation and to get tons of details.
 That's my two cents for Speakers vs. Headphones


----------



## Kiats

discodelico said:


> I don't r read comments about the SUPERCONDUCTOR Cables.
> Has anyone upgraded Abyss with these cables?




I have had these on my Abyss since early March. I do believe there was some discussion during the March/April period.


----------



## Yoga

up late said:


> the abyss is visceral for a headphone. it's one of its strengths, but no headphone that i've heard, including the abyss, can match a loudspeaker in this area of performance. i honestly assumed that this was a given and not up for serious debate - hence my previous post. even tyll hertsen acknowledges this in his latest innerfidelity article. it doesn't sound the least bit arrogant coming from him.


 
  
 That depends on the context and usage of the word visceral.
  
 I've used that myself to describe the sound of the Abyss/A1/600i; tangible, real and organic. Something that invokes feeling.
  
 It doesn't - by definition - relate only to sound waves hitting the body. The sound of the Abyss may inwardly _feel_ more tangible and real to that of a speaker setup.
  
visceral
 ˈvɪs(ə)r(ə)l/
_adjective_
 

 *1*. 
   relating to the viscera.
"the visceral nervous system"



 *2*. 
*relating to deep inward feelings rather than to the intellect.*
*"the voters' visceral fear of change"*


----------



## Trance_Gott

You're right it depends on the context of visceral. I mean with this also sound waves hitting the body.
Otherwise yes the bass of the Abyss is organic like in no other headphone.


----------



## up late

well when i see visceral used in the context of headphone/speaker comparisons, it is referring to the experience of sound waves hitting the body. tyll hertsen describes it similarly: "visceral impact is the ability to convey a sense of sheer power and presence felt in the body as opposed to being purely heard."


----------



## Yoga

up late said:


> well *when i see* visceral used in the context of headphone/speaker comparisons, it is referring to the experience of sound waves hitting the body. tyll hertsen describes it similarly: "visceral impact is the ability to convey a sense of sheer power and presence felt in the body as opposed to being purely heard."


 

 Exactly, *your* interpretation that *you* projected onto some else's statement.
  
 There's no need to reference Tyll, he's not an authority in the use of English. You may need to expand your understanding of the word. 
  
 http://www.dictionary.com/browse/visceral?s=t


----------



## up late

not just my interpretation. that is how it is commonly used at this and other headphone forums when comparisons between headphones and speakers are made. its meaning is quite specific and well understood in that context.


----------



## Yoga

Yes indeed. Just disregard the English language when it suits your argument.
  
 I've just blocked you, no need to reply, I won't see it.


----------



## paulchiu

kiats said:


> I have had these on my Abyss since early March. I do believe there was some discussion during the March/April period.


 
  
 Can you give us a quick review of the super conductor upgrade cables versus the stock Abyss cables?
 Thanks
  
 Paul


----------



## Yoga

paulchiu said:


> Can you give us a quick review of the super conductor upgrade cables versus the stock Abyss cables?
> Thanks
> 
> Paul


 

 Be sure to check the DHC Spore4 cable out too. Quite a few here with very trustworthy ears rate it very highly indeed.


----------



## paulchiu

yoga said:


> Be sure to check the DHC Spore4 cable out too. Quite a few here with very trustworthy ears rate it very highly indeed.


 
  
 I have tried those with my HE1000. I agree with their transparency and airiness.
 Since the pricing of the super conductor and the Spore4 is about the same, why I asked.
  
 Paul


----------



## Kiats

paulchiu said:


> Can you give us a quick review of the super conductor upgrade cables versus the stock Abyss cables?
> Thanks
> 
> Paul




Let me try, Paul. The stock cables are good for a stock head fi product. However, I felt that it was a bit "thin" on details and could do with a bit more body to the sound. Of course, if you read the views of a few persons who tried the SC and the stock cable, there are those who prefer this. Perhaps because it is easier to discern details.

The Superconductor cables, on the other hand, offers more details on the Abyss. For want of a better word, it conveys a thicker sound chockful of details and layering. I am not going to claim that it is the universal truth that this is better. Because it is a richer sound that you are getting, there will be those who will miss the perhaps simpler presentation of the stock cable where it may be easier for some to discern details. 

I prefer the Superconductor because, on my desktop rig, it gives me the natural fluid sound which I am looking for, while offering up the richness and texture of the soundstage which I feel is perhaps not as evident on the stock cable.

Most times the voicing I'm looking from my system is a full range one from treble to bass, and a soundstage that is not just wide but also deep and textured. I do not want just brightness but also a fluid and easy presentation that is also nuanced. On my rig, to my ears, the superconductor cable offers me that.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Visceral impact defined as shear impact to the body is not really a fair comparison even in the context of a 2 channel speaker system. It's an exaggeration that widens the contrast by conjuring up memories of a rock concert.

True visceral bass impact in a speaker system requires large woofers with great speed (read lightweight cone/coil assembly) and LOTS of power.

If like a microphone a few inches away you can hear the initial impact on the drum skin AND the resulting wave or roll of the skin as seen in the slow motion video link below, IMO the reproduced bass impact is truly visceral.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osFBNLA7woY


----------



## warrior1975

beolab said:


> Add a visceral amp like the 600i and it tops many speakers when it comes to "viscerality"







yoga said:


> I know one shouldn't feed the trolls, but unless you've experienced something personally, your opinion is guesswork. When proffered as fact, it becomes arrogance.




Yoga I'm really trying to get an understanding of the Abyss, are you agreeing with the above posters statement, the Abyss tops many speakers in terms of "viscerality"? 

Joe Skubinski Are you saying that it's not as visceral as they are implying? Sorry, I'm really trying to grasp the sound and feeling of the Abyss. I'm genuinely interested in them, but it's a lot of money to make a blind purchase.


----------



## discodelico

Thank you for your opinion about the superconductor.
Did you compared it with the double Helix cable?


----------



## discodelico

Thank you for your answer.
Did you compared Superconductor Vs Double Helix?


----------



## Yoga

warrior1975 said:


> @Yoga I'm really trying to get an understanding of the Abyss, are you agreeing with the above posters statement, the Abyss tops many speakers in terms of "viscerality"?
> 
> @Joe Skubinski Are you saying that it's not as visceral as they are implying? Sorry, I'm really trying to grasp the sound and feeling of the Abyss. I'm genuinely interested in them, but it's a lot of money to make a blind purchase.


 
  
 It depends on how you define visceral. It can be used to describe both external physicality of sound (hitting your body), and the realness of the sound (how it makes you feel internally and instinctively).
  
 Headphones vs speakers for the first definition is a moot point; your body is saturated with sound rather than just your ear canals.
  
 The second definition however, can be. As the music can feel real (or not) to you either via headphones or speakers. In that respect, yes, the Abyss are an incredibly visceral headphone, and the sounds themselves sound more realistic and true to form; organic and tangible. You can hear the plucks of the strings, the vibration in the body of the instrument, and it makes your hairs stand on end. That's a visceral experience.


----------



## discodelico

Did you compared the DHC Vs Superconductor?
All best


----------



## Beolab

yoga said:


> It depends on how you define visceral. It can be used to describe both external physicality of sound (hitting your body), and the realness of the sound (how it makes you feel internally and instinctively).
> 
> Headphones vs speakers for the first definition is a moot point; your body is saturated with sound rather than just your ear canals.
> 
> The second definition however, can be. As the music can feel real (or not) to you either via headphones or speakers. In that respect, yes, the Abyss are an incredibly visceral headphone, and the sounds themselves sound more realistic and true to form; organic and tangible. You can hear the plucks of the strings, the vibration in the body of the instrument, and it makes your hairs stand on end. That's a visceral experience.




For me and how i read and understand the word visceral is like a effortless almost hard to hear but it moves you. 
It is like a warm-whispering-dynamic-gentle-punch-bass-force around the tones, and you can often just experienced this on either bigger high end speakers with huge amount of power on tap from the amps, or in the Abyss in fact with huge power / A Current drive , where i somethimes on some tracks can feel the visceral effect in my boddy and i have to lower the volyme because it sounds like my subwoofer are engaged out in my livingroom.


----------



## Kiats

discodelico said:


> Did you compared the DHC Vs Superconductor?
> All best




Not on the Abyss. I did try DHC on the AKG K812 a couple of years back. Let's just say that the hybrid cable did nothing for me.


----------



## mulder01

I looked up a bunch of definitions for visceral or viscerality and they mainly seem to refer to the physicality of something. In which case I can understand up late's "bullocks" post - as a speaker has much more power to physically move air in a space compared to a 66mm driver next to your ear.

Thouh the definition "Being or arising from impulse or sudden emotion rather than from thought or deliberation" makes Beo right too. As the way that the music comes out of the abyss somehow conveys the emotion of the music and makes it sound tangible and real. 

The one negative argument about the abyss that continually comes up is 'how can it sound the best if it doesn't measure the best'. And I kinda feel like even if another headphone measures better, it's like having a very hi res photo - on paper, there's a lot of information there and it's very detailed. Where as the Abyss is perhaps a slightly lower resolution photo, but 3D - giving more of a sense of realism and a fuller experience. Sure, if you do the measurements, the first image has more pixels and gives the impression that it must be more "correct". But when you go from the Abyss (the 3d image) to the LCD-4, for example, (the 2d image), it just sounds... well, flat. Which reminds me of the saying "If it sounds good and measures bad then you're measuring the wrong thing". Maybe that's the quality that could be considered the Abyss's "viscerality"


----------



## potkettleblack

hahah you know things are bad when people are getting your posts confused with uplate's posts
  
 Mulder I thought mean and you were like this!


----------



## up late

joe skubinski said:


> Visceral impact defined as shear impact to the body is not really a fair comparison even in the context of a 2 channel speaker system. It's an exaggeration that widens the contrast by conjuring up memories of a rock concert.
> 
> True visceral bass impact in a speaker system requires large woofers with great speed (read lightweight cone/coil assembly) and LOTS of power.
> 
> ...




and yet it's invariably brought up whenever discussions about headphones versus loudspeakers occur here and at other headphone forums




beolab said:


> For me and how i read and understand the word visceral is like a effortless almost hard to hear but it moves you.
> It is like a warm-whispering-dynamic-gentle-punch-bass-force around the tones, and you can often just experienced this on either bigger high end speakers with huge amount of power on tap from the amps, or in the Abyss in fact with huge power / A Current drive , where i somethimes on some tracks can feel the visceral effect in my boddy and i have to lower the volyme because it sounds like my subwoofer are engaged out in my livingroom.




yes, visceral in the sense that sound is felt physically as well as heard. thanks for the clarification.


----------



## mulder01

potkettleblack said:


> hahah you know things are bad when people are getting your posts confused with uplate's posts
> 
> Mulder I thought mean and you were like this!


 
  
 haha yep, typo, dammit.
  
 edited
  
 Which one of us is the president?


----------



## draytonklammer

Close to a week later and I have been listening very close to day and night.
 These headphones are staying and the LCD-4 is going, my original decision is right for me.
  
 Now that I have the shorter headband these fit a lot better, are much more comfortable (I would put them above the LCD-4 in comfort now) and sound better than when I first put them on.


----------



## potkettleblack

Easily the best there is. I've now spent countless hours with all the flagships available - minus the R10 and other obscure rare headphones.

I spent the day with the 007 two days ago, with the 006t and the mojo. I loved the combo. Would own it regardless. 

But it isn't the Abyss.

My Abyss has been with the same dealer to sell for the last two weeks because I was unsure what I was going to do. I told him I would let him know this week whether or not to stick them on eBay for me. At the of the day I gave the Abyss a quick listen before I went.. and tore me apart. 

The only way I can own them now is if I was willing to only use them laying down because of my neck.

I'm still not sure what I'm going to do.


----------



## Beolab

potkettleblack said:


> Easily the best there is. I've now spent countless hours with all the flagships available - minus the R10 and other obscure rare headphones.
> 
> I spent the day with the 007 two days ago, with the 006t and the mojo. I loved the combo. Would own it regardless.
> 
> ...




Invest in a Abyss neck holder instead: 


Or a more heavy duty one :


----------



## draytonklammer

Not gonna lie I almost bought one of those airplane neck cushions since I use 600g+ headphones only.


----------



## mulder01

You guys need to do some more headbanging - go to some metal concerts and build up those neck muscles
  
 Failing that, I wonder if you could modify one of those gyroscopic camera mounts like they use at the football to hold a pair of headphones instead of a camera...


----------



## potkettleblack

It's too late! I've just sent the email. He's gonna stick them on eBay next week.

If they don't sell for a good price I will keep them (part of me is hoping they don't so I have no choice but to keep them) If they do I will get the 007 and wait to see what the Diana is like.


----------



## stvc

Just got the short headband, much comfortable for my head size. I seriously think that JPS may want to consider to include that as a package. j


----------



## Yoga

Does the small headband cost extra? I would hope those of us who invested in the full package would get that for free.


----------



## mulder01

potkettleblack said:


> It's too late! I've just sent the email. He's gonna stick them on eBay next week.
> 
> If they don't sell for a good price I will keep them (part of me is hoping they don't so I have no choice but to keep them) If they do I will get the 007 and wait to see what the Diana is like.


 
  
 Have you tried selling them on here?
  
 If you put them on ebay as a bidding auction, and it doesn't go as high as you like, you aren't really allowed to change your mind as it is a binding contract to sell.  Also, their fees are about 10% of the sale price, plus paypal fees will likely cost you about $500 in fees to sell on ebay.  Plus if your dealer charges you a margin for selling them on your behalf you may end up with a fair bit less than what you want...


----------



## bigfatpaulie

yoga said:


> Does the small headband cost extra? I would hope those of us who invested in the full package would get that for free.


 
  
 Yes.  And sorry, nope.
  
 In the world of luxury products - NOTHING is free or cheap   
  
 Such is life, I suppose.


----------



## potkettleblack

mulder01 said:


> Have you tried selling them on here?
> 
> If you put them on ebay as a bidding auction, and it doesn't go as high as you like, you aren't really allowed to change your mind as it is a binding contract to sell.  Also, their fees are about 10% of the sale price, plus paypal fees will likely cost you about $500 in fees to sell on ebay.  Plus if your dealer charges you a margin for selling them on your behalf you may end up with a fair bit less than what you want...


I'll pm you.


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> Have you tried selling them on here?
> 
> If you put them on ebay as a bidding auction, and it doesn't go as high as you like, you aren't really allowed to change your mind as it is a binding contract to sell.  Also, their fees are about 10% of the sale price, plus paypal fees will likely cost you about $500 in fees to sell on ebay.  Plus if your dealer charges you a margin for selling them on your behalf you may end up with a fair bit less than what you want...


 
  
 Agreed, eBay is not the best place for something as niche as the Abyss.
  


bigfatpaulie said:


> Yes.  And sorry, nope.
> 
> In the world of luxury products - NOTHING is free or cheap
> 
> Such is life, I suppose.


 
  
 You'd think that something so expensive that doesn't have adjustable height - and hence not a good fit for many (which is crucial with these cans) - would include the band.
  
 How much is it?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

yoga said:


> Agreed, eBay is not the best place for something as niche as the Abyss.
> 
> 
> You'd think that something so expensive that doesn't have adjustable height - and hence not a good fit for many (which is crucial with these cans) - would include the band.
> ...


 
  
 One would....  But you and I are in the same boat, up the same creek.
  
 I'll send you a PM.


----------



## warrior1975

Put them up with a reserve, if it's not met you don't sell. The fees will kill you though.


----------



## draytonklammer

Still listening and comparing with no reason to go back to anything else besidrs the Abyss.


----------



## potkettleblack

draytonklammer said:


> Still listening and comparing with no reason to go back to anything else besidrs the Abyss.


Did you change the headband because you have a small head or because of a hotspot?


----------



## draytonklammer

potkettleblack said:


> Did you change the headband because you have a small head or because of a hotspot?


 
 I have a small head apparently, the ear cups always touched the top of my ear and hung too low.
  
 Now it's a perfect fit.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

draytonklammer said:


> I have a small head apparently, the ear cups always touched the top of my ear and hung too low.


 
  
 I had the same issue.  I also had it with HE-6's oddly enough.


----------



## jelt2359

If anyone is looking to sell their Abyss, let me know


----------



## draytonklammer

I hope you find one for a good price. 

Once you go Abyss there's no going back.


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> I hope you find one for a good price.
> 
> Once you go Abyss there's no going back.


 

 How are you doing in finding an optimal fit?
  
 And if you've gotten to an ideal general purpose fit, have you tried experimenting with different positions, and level of seal, with different types of music yet?
  
 ..
  
 New Takatsuki's in my WA5-LE combined with the Abyss are a sublime experience (and it was magical before, on the Sophias)  The LCD-4 benefits as well, but the Abyss is more sonorous and still more enjoyable overall.  Good thing I have two systems or those LCD-4 might have to worry about their place around here.


----------



## draytonklammer

So far my best fit is seal at 10 O' clock, shorter headband purchased and fully expanded top part. I also have the L on each side bent in very very slightly.

With that my LCD-4 doesn't really appeal. I keep pulling it out of the box and putting it up against the Abyss only finding myself to put it back in the box.


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> So far my best fit is seal at 10 O' clock, shorter headband purchased and fully expanded top part. I also have the L on each side bent in very very slightly.


 

 Have you tried pivoting the frame to cant the pads back and forth and seeing how that affects soundstage/image with different recordings?  If not, you should ... it's a really neat way to be able to tune things further.


----------



## draytonklammer

torq said:


> Have you tried pivoting the frame to cant the pads back and forth and seeing how that affects soundstage/image with different recordings?  If not, you should ... it's a really neat way to be able to tune things further.




I haven't done too much of that yet although I plan to eventually. I just know right now the fit I have is the best I've ever heard.


----------



## Beolab

So you have the Stitching on the earpads pointing almost up against the sealing if you have it set on 10 o'clock.


----------



## draytonklammer

On the right ear cup if I'm looking at it straight on the seam is pointed towards ten. 

Also bent the L pieces slightly outward and I'm liking the performance of that.


----------



## Beolab

draytonklammer said:


> On the right ear cup if I'm looking at it straight on the seam is pointed towards ten.
> 
> Also bent the L pieces slightly outward and I'm liking the performance of that.




Interesting, what is your measurements around your head in inches or centimetres?


----------



## draytonklammer

That is a very good question. I'd have to check.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Here's an oddity I discovered after reading your comments about the cups.  Mine are each in a different position (one 'notch' different).
  
 Hunh.
  
 I guess I have a oddly shaped head


----------



## draytonklammer

No clue if this has to do with my fit, or something else, but it feels like mainly the right driver produces bass.
  
 It could even be my perception being off, but it seems like it isn't balanced.
  
 By that type of bass I mean the shaking sort of bass. I can feel it on the right side, but I don't believe I get it as much on the left.


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> No clue if this has to do with my fit, or something else, but it feels like mainly the right driver produces bass.
> 
> It could even be my perception being off, but it seems like it isn't balanced.
> 
> By that type of bass I mean the shaking sort of bass. I can feel it on the right side, but I don't believe I get it as much on the left.




Bass performance is highly dependent on your seal. If it's not the same on both sides, the side with the stronger seal will produce less bass.


----------



## draytonklammer

Any tips on how to get a more balanced seal?
  
 I thought they were pretty close in seal.


----------



## mulder01

I guess an easy way to make sure it's your seal, not the driver, would be to turn the headphone around backward so the left and right drivers are on the opposite side but fit the pads the same way. If the bass is still stronger on the same side then it's got to be the seal.


----------



## Beolab

Funny i actually got the same shaking bass in the right headphone, but not in the left one, does your both channels shake @mulder01 ? 

Most likely the seal are uneaven, but i have just tested to switch the right and left channel, and it wasn't any diffrence, so next step will be to make a 180 degree of the headphone. 
To 99% i will get the same result that i get more bass in the right.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Mine are very, very even.


----------



## jelt2359

Just joined this club, what are some cable pairings that work well? And is the shorter headband a must?


----------



## potkettleblack

jelt2359 said:


> Just joined this club, what are some cable pairings that work well? And is the shorter headband a must?


 

 Jesus give the stock cable a chance! You'll get more fulfilment from adjusting the ear cups closer to and further away from your ears than any cable upgrade could ever give you.
  
 Listen to this and wave goodbye to Kansas:


----------



## draytonklammer

Completely agree, please just keep the stock cable. I actually have zero issues with it.


----------



## jelt2359

potkettleblack said:


> Jesus give the stock cable a chance! You'll get more fulfilment from adjusting the ear cups closer to and further away from your ears than any cable upgrade could ever give you.
> 
> Listen to this and wave goodbye to Kansas:


 
 Not familiar with this software- Does this mean the artist is Tipper, the album is Fathoms EP, and the song is Ambergris?


----------



## mulder01

My channel balance is even - never noticed anything one-sided.  The bass boost is significant with just a small gap at the front of the earcups, so I suppose if your head is not perfectly symmetrical (I assume nobody's is) and one side has a slightly bigger gap, that might be a cause? Maybe?
  
 Small headband is not a must at all unless you have a smaller head and can't get it to sit high enough.  Even then, one of the simple headband mods will do the same thing if you want to quickly experiment with the height.
  
 Stock cable is already a premium cable - JPS is a cable manufacturer and have tuned it to match the Abyss - I suppose if you try it for a while and want to tweak a certain aspect of the sound you could look into it then.


----------



## draytonklammer

So I switched sides and it stayed on the right side.
  
 I wonder how I can make it fit my head better to make the bass even.


----------



## potkettleblack

draytonklammer said:


> So I switched sides and it stayed on the right side.
> 
> I wonder how I can make it fit my head better to make the bass even.


I used to go through the exact same thing. I altered my set daily to try and make the most of all genres and sometimes got things coming through one side more than the other. I use to freak out. 

I can assure you that this is solely down to the fact the Abyss is so adjustable. Off your head you'll see some settings that are bound to place more on one ear than the other. As quick as I used to freak out, with a quick change I realised it was down to how they sat on my head.

I used the below track hundreds of times and went through ugly, bloomy imbalanced bass, to tight godly, end of the world bass, but never learned my lesson and always tampered.


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> So I switched sides and it stayed on the right side.
> 
> I wonder how I can make it fit my head better to make the bass even.




Some people need to rotate the left and right pads to different positions (e.g. One might have the fatter part of the pad at the bottom, the other almost to the back). I think the natural tendency is to simply have them set the same, but that's not optimal for everyone.

Others need to bend the frame more on one side than the other (be that in or out).


----------



## mulder01

I wonder how good it would be if you shaved your head, and made a plaster cast and mould and got a leather upholsterer to custom make you earpads that contour to your head.
Fair pain in the rectum, but imagine the fidelity


----------



## draytonklammer

torq said:


> Some people need to rotate the left and right pads to different positions (e.g. One might have the fatter part of the pad at the bottom, the other almost to the back). I think the natural tendency is to simply have them set the same, but that's not optimal for everyone.
> 
> Others need to bend the frame more on one side than the other (be that in or out).


 
 I've tried multiple ways of bending the frame so I might give the cups more of a go.
  
 I've tried some positions that were close to each other, but one of them didn't feel right and one of them didn't fix the issue.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

draytonklammer said:


> I've tried multiple ways of bending the frame so I might give the cups more of a go.
> 
> I've tried some positions that were close to each other, but one of them didn't feel right and one of them didn't fix the issue.


 
  
 Did you ever get the bottom of your imbalance issue?


----------



## tassardar

I too found some channel imbalanced which was solved by not having the pads at the exact position. The fitting is the one that affects the bass most


----------



## draytonklammer

bigfatpaulie said:


> Did you ever get the bottom of your imbalance issue?


 
 I believe so. Switching one of the cups and bending the L shaped aluminum outwards more on one side seems to have done it.


----------



## potkettleblack

Just phoned my dealer about my Abyss.

I couldn't do it. I've asked him to ship them to me, and as a gesture (in a way) I've added money to shop account and insisted he gets himself a pint for the hassle.

My neck issue is completely up in the air at the minute as the severity of it could be related to a vitamin d and or magnesium defiecency.

The price of the Abyss lite is now £3999 in the UK due to Brexit, which means I might have lost even less on them. But it also means I would likely never get them again at that price.

I would have so much regret for getting rid of the Abyss. I've auditioned so many others since deciding to sell, specifically the Stax 007 which are currently my second favourite headphone. But they're just not the same or as good in my opinion.

They're coming home.


----------



## ufospls2

potkettleblack said:


> Just phoned my dealer about my Abyss.
> 
> I couldn't do it. I've asked him to ship them to me, and as a gesture (in a way) I've added money to shop account and insisted he gets himself a pint for the hassle.
> 
> ...


 
 Glad to hear it mate, hope your neck sorts itself out and you are able to enjoy them. Just listen lying in bed like I do at night!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

potkettleblack said:


> Just phoned my dealer about my Abyss.
> 
> I couldn't do it. I've asked him to ship them to me, and as a gesture (in a way) I've added money to shop account and insisted he gets himself a pint for the hassle.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Glad to hear your neck is getting better and that there may be a simple (non surgical) fix in sight!  My fingers are crossed for you. 
  
 Take care, buddy.
  
 I'd say we missed you in the Abyss club, but you never really left


----------



## Trance_Gott

Welcome back!
I have currently my second Abyss as I notice in the 3 months without an Abyss there is no alternative!


----------



## potkettleblack

Agreed. Only accompaniments.


----------



## draytonklammer

Finally sold my LCD-4.
  
 Abyss is my final choice to date.


----------



## Kiats

potkettleblack said:


> Just phoned my dealer about my Abyss.
> 
> I couldn't do it. I've asked him to ship them to me, and as a gesture (in a way) I've added money to shop account and insisted he gets himself a pint for the hassle.
> 
> ...




I hope things resolve themselves for you, Potkettleblack. And you get to enjoy your Abyss without discomfit again.


----------



## potkettleblack

jelt2359 said:


> Not familiar with this software- Does this mean the artist is Tipper, the album is Fathoms EP, and the song is Ambergris?


No idea why I didn't see this message mate sorry. Yes it does.


----------



## jelt2359

potkettleblack said:


> Just phoned my dealer about my Abyss.
> 
> I couldn't do it. I've asked him to ship them to me, and as a gesture (in a way) I've added money to shop account and insisted he gets himself a pint for the hassle.
> 
> ...




Good thing you got em before brexit, then!


----------



## Stereolab42

I've found that doing pullups will greatly strengthen the neck muscles. I never have problems with the weight of the Abyss/LCD-XC and so on, and I'm confident part of it is due to doing regular pullups. Worth a shot.


----------



## potkettleblack

Thanks man but it was training that got me into this in the first place. Doing this for 6 years is what caused it:



At least I've been able to wear sparkly shorts.


----------



## draytonklammer

I find it rather impressive that as I adjust my fit closer and closer to ideal the sound only gets better.
  
 Currently have my left cup and right cup at different areas and fully expanded band and pulled apart the L bend areas.


----------



## jelt2359

Just got my Abyss in. Very impressive indeed. As a bonus, I'm now trying it with the fuzor mod that I've long heard about from my HE6 modding days, and also installed a ring of felt that goes around it. Offers a bit of a different sound, more damped and weighty, not necessary better, but it does sound good!


----------



## warrior1975

jelt2359 said:


> Just joined this club, what are some cable pairings that work well? And is the shorter headband a must?




Congrats Jayson, looking forward to your impressions bro.


----------



## draytonklammer

LCD-4 is officially sold and shipped.
  
 There just wasn't a way for me to go back to it with owning my Abyss.
 Best purchase I have made since entering this game. Just wish I wouldn't have taken so long to do it.
  
 Thinking about getting a custom cable for them though.
 No I don't believe in the sound quality change, I just think this cable seems slightly sketchy in terms of build quality. I also want to customize the color and make it mine a bit more.


----------



## jelt2359

draytonklammer said:


> LCD-4 is officially sold and shipped.
> 
> There just wasn't a way for me to go back to it with owning my Abyss.
> Best purchase I have made since entering this game. Just wish I wouldn't have taken so long to do it.
> ...




Congrats! Btw what do you mean by the L shaped aluminium? Since I have the fuzzor mod applied I'm trying to adjust the pads less and other stuff more


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> Thinking about getting a custom cable for them though.
> No I don't believe in the sound quality change, I just think this cable seems slightly sketchy in terms of build quality. I also want to customize the color and make it mine a bit more.


 
  
 What about a couple of lengths of purple tech flex sleeved over the cables with some heatshrink on the ends?  The connectors on the headphone end aren't massive so maybe the right size techflex for the cable could be pushed together to expand over the plug so you could sleeve it on without having to re terminate anything and then the heatshrink would finish it nicely and stop it fraying.  Would be easy to remove if you ever wanted a change too.


----------



## tassardar

Got myself some new cables. A silver dragon balanced from Moon Audio as the original cable is just too cumbersome to manage for me. Lighter, thinner and much more flexible. Now the sound quality test for the night.


----------



## tassardar

And a quick impression of them. Silver Dragon disperse the sound wider. The sound feels like its around you, out of your head, slightly bigger soundstage and lighter. The original cable gives more weight and center focus. Its also a touch warmer. The original cable is really different hmm. Well then again im sure the silver dragon is cheaper then the abyss cable when it comes to srp so performance between them shouldnt be huge lol. Just preference and silverdragon is just easier to handle.


----------



## discodelico

Did you compared Silver Dragon Vs Superconductor?
Original Abyss cable is warmer than Silver dragon?
All best


----------



## tassardar

discodelico said:


> Did you compared Silver Dragon Vs Superconductor?
> Original Abyss cable is warmer than Silver dragon?
> All best


 
 Just the default cable. Its a touch warmer and has a more concentrated sound.
  
 Silver dragon gives a slightly more out of head feeling hmm. Widens the space.


----------



## ufospls2

This is a stupid question, and im 99% sure I know the answer, but I want to check just to be sure. Could I use the Audeze leather conditioner that comes with the LCD-4 on my Abyss ear pads? Just want to take as best care of them as I can. I assume any leather conditioner is fine?


----------



## potkettleblack

ufospls2 said:


> This is a stupid question, and im 99% sure I know the answer, but I want to check just to be sure. Could I use the Audeze leather conditioner that comes with the LCD-4 on my Abyss ear pads? Just want to take as best care of them as I can. I assume any leather conditioner is fine?


Did it with mine several times from when I bought it for my LCDX. Works great. Without looking at the name right now you can get the same conditioner on Amazon straight from the company - it's on the back in small writing on the Audeze bottle. It has amazing reviews.

Joe advised me that a wet cloth is enough (which I believe it is) but I went against his wishes, flew the nest and rebelled. 

He's not the boss of me!!

Edit:




It will 'penetrate' your Abyss! Money well spent imo.


----------



## a1uc

I picked up a pair of Aybss headphones a couple weeks ago and I'm very happy with the sound they produce , I also have a pair of HE-1000's and they don't get any use now . Today I received a DHC Spore 4 Silver and hope to check it out later tonight against the stock cable .
  
 Simaudio Neo 430 HAD
 Source Totaldac Twelve


----------



## jelt2359

a1uc said:


> I picked up a pair of Aybss headphones a couple weeks ago and I'm very happy with the sound they produce , I also have a pair of HE-1000's and they don't get any use now . Today I received a DHC Spore 4 Silver and hope to check it out later tonight against the stock cable .
> 
> Simaudio Neo 430 HAD
> Source Totaldac Twelve




Next up, DAVE!!


----------



## a1uc

I was going to pull the trigger on a DAVE but decided to stick with the twelve , I'm looking at getting a WA5-LE maybe .


----------



## mulder01

a1uc said:


> I picked up a pair of Aybss headphones a couple weeks ago and I'm very happy with the sound they produce , I also have a pair of HE-1000's and they don't get any use now . Today I received a DHC Spore 4 Silver and hope to check it out later tonight against the stock cable .
> 
> Simaudio Neo 430 HAD
> Source Totaldac Twelve


 
  
 Look forward to hearing your thoughts.
  


jelt2359 said:


> Next up, DAVE!!


 
  
 I get this funny feeling he likes his totaldac...


----------



## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> What about a couple of lengths of purple tech flex sleeved over the cables with some heatshrink on the ends?  The connectors on the headphone end aren't massive so maybe the right size techflex for the cable could be pushed together to expand over the plug so you could sleeve it on without having to re terminate anything and then the heatshrink would finish it nicely and stop it fraying.  Would be easy to remove if you ever wanted a change too.




Not a bad idea at all. 
Pretty tempting. Where would I buy some?


----------



## mulder01

Well I'm sure there is somewhere more local to you, but I just quickly typed it in on ebay (sure you could find some purple heatshrink the same way) and this listing came up in Australia with all the sizes on it - looks like you'd need the 6.4mm one which expands to 11.1mm to fit it over the small connector on the headphone end, though it looks like the cable diameter is only about 5mm so you'd need to pull it a bit tighter to make it hug the cable tight and use the heatshrink to hold it there... Would that make the cable want to bunch up? I dunno but there's only one way to find out! I guess it's cheap enough and if it doesn't work then it's not a big deal. 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6-4mm-x-3m-Length-Techflex-Flexo-PET-Expandable-Braided-Cable-Sleeve-/331904201034?var=&hash=item4d4708314am28ycEKhsbhEgrCSQHkdcLg

I bought a roll of bigger black techflex when I first bought the abyss to sleeve both cables into one because I didn't like the 'stickyness' of the outer insulation but it made the whole thing pretty inflexible because obviously the two cables around a bend do not have the same radius. I suppose it would work better if I had twisted them together... Oh well. 

But if you're not worried about any changes in sound it seems a bit crazy to spend hundreds or thousands on a different cable just to make it a different colour... 

Failing that maybe PM Joe and see what he can do with the stock cable for you - maybe cut the connector off, sleeve it and reterminate?...


----------



## potkettleblack

I may need to get the shorter headband - the stock one seems to be showing signs of over stretching. And when I sit-up the cups do hang lower than the first day I got it.



Im tempted to try and make one myself first to eliminate a hotspot I still get when I'm laying down. Not sure if a shorter headband will do that.

Very glad I have them back home though


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Oh wow, that's really stretched out.  
  
 I feel like these two cheap little rubber rings are the achilles heal of the Abyss.  Everything else is so nicely overbuilt and then these two little flimsy parts are the critical point for comfort and SQ.  Something like an integrated slide on either side of the vertical "walls" with a solid leather piece probably would have been more idea - or something like that.
  
 I think many of us are going to have a long term issue with these rings.  We should probably start considering a long term fix for this...


----------



## potkettleblack

Thats probably the case. I'm gonna consider getting the shorter one, I've messaged Joe to see what he thinks. 

I'm also gonna look at headband designs and see which would give no issues when it comes to pressure causing a hotspot. The same design as the abyss has, but a much thinner material. I'm thinking this from a Stax 507:



There's a user that created a red one on here that looked awesome. I might message him as well.


----------



## potkettleblack

Edit to first post:

I took the headband on and off (once) prior to wanting to sell them.

Joe has just told me the elastic can stretch by doing this if not done with care. That is clearly what has happened. So *hands up* it looks like I've actually done this.

I'll just wipe this egg off my face.


----------



## AlanYWM

This is what I have done for mine to make the fit better. I believe some folks in this forum have also done the same thing. If I have the time, I will try to make a leather headband which is adjustable


----------



## seeteeyou

How do you guys feel about the latest and greatest Prion4 from DHC?
  
 http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=208
  



> $1799 @ 4' / $2299 @ 6' / $2799 @ 8'
> 
> Prion4S: add Spore Shielding to each strand ( +$600.00 )


----------



## Stereolab42

A 3-month wait for a $2800 cable? Sign me up!


----------



## mulder01

stereolab42 said:


> A 3-month wait for a $2800 cable? Sign me up!


 
  
 You wouldn't add the spore shielding?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Haha!
  
  
 Honestly, this cable bugs me a bit...  I now don't get me wrong, Peter is excellent at what he does, is a truly talented man who loves what is he does but I can't help but feel is playing us a little bit.  What I mean is, he sees an opportunity and is taking that opportunity.  I don't see him badly for that, in fact I respect him for his entrepreneurial spirit.
  
 That said, I personally find cables make very subtle changes.  Going from the stock HD800 cable to a Compliment4 made a nominal sonic different (to me).  Yes, it was little more revealing, separation was slightly better and did sound more 'relaxed' (what that means).  But that was a massive economic jump and the Comp4 was almost as much as the HD800's WITH the stock cable.  I definitely received more benefit in sonics to dollars with a better amp or DAC. 
  
 Is this cable better than the already excellent Spore4?  I suppose.  But at what cost?  I guess if the pursuit of the ultimate is taken without reservation, this cable is essential; for now.
  
 It's also interesting that DHC was firm in that the Spore/Comp4 line was their 'finish line'.  Now this.  I suppose with more ultra expensive headphones come more ultra expensive cables.  Look out big speaker world, here we come.


----------



## Beolab

seeteeyou said:


> How do you guys feel about the latest and greatest Prion4 from DHC?
> 
> http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=208
> 
> ...




Have the Prion4S on order and will receive them in two weeks time, incl a few more new not yet unveiled products , just wait and see.


----------



## Andykong

Dear Abyss owners,

I am representing Cayin Audio, we are looking for reviewers for our desktop HeadFi stack iDAC-6 and iHA-6, and we would like to invite you to check this out:


*[US TOUR] Cayin iDAC-6 (Dual AK4490 DAC) and iHA-6 (Full Balanced Headphone amp) - Reviewers Wanted*

I have the opportunity to hear the iHA-6 pairing with the Abyss AB-1266 in a private HeadFi meet in Hong Kong and was very impressed, I sincerely believe there is some special synergy between Cayin iHA-6 and Abyss AB-1266. The result is simply beyond my comprehension even for someone who knows the iHA-6 very well. This is a relatively "budgeted" DAC+Amp combo when compare with other equipment mentioned in this thread, please give us a chance, we promise to offer a surprise in return. Sign up the tour now and we are looking forward to welcome in the party.


----------



## Kiats

Andy, who carries this amp in Singapore? Would be interesting to give it a listen. Thanks!


----------



## mulder01

From what I've seen here in the past, in general, Abyss owners are not particularly interested in amps around $1k.  Which is a shame.


----------



## deuter

May be its worth increasing the price of the Cayin  to $5K, will that help you guys buy it ?


----------



## Andykong

mulder01 said:


> From what I've seen here in the past, in general, Abyss owners are not particularly interested in amps around $1k.  Which is a shame.




I do notice this norm after reading the discussion for past 20+ pages. 

I have heard the iHA-6 pair with LCD4 and Abyss side by side, and I choice to recommend the tour to Abyss community but not the bigger Audeze group. I trust my ear and truly believe the system synergy is contributing to the surprise factor. 



I hope someone will give this a try, this is not an end game solution to Abyss, but certainly a viable option to setup an Abyss based system at budget, or an alternate system at bedroom or study desk when we do not have enough space for full sized equipments.


----------



## Andykong

kiats said:


> Andy, who carries this amp in Singapore? Would be interesting to give it a listen. Thanks!




Thank you for your interest in our iDAC-6 and IHA-6 combo, I'll drop you a PM on Monday when I get back to my office computer.


----------



## mulder01

Quote:


andykong said:


> I hope someone will give this a try, this is not an end game solution to Abyss, but certainly a viable option to setup an Abyss based system at budget, or an alternate system at bedroom or study desk when we do not have enough space for full sized equipment


 
  
 It would be nice if people were a little more open minded to more budget friendly options for the Abyss.  Anyone who had been following this thread for a while will know that I've long maintained that you do NOT need to spend 5 grand on an amp for these, but it seems that I am in the minority.  I think that even after potential future Abyss owners have accepted the $4.5k price tag, they are often put off by assuming they'll need another $10k in the bank for the rest of the system otherwise it won't be worthwhile.  Perhaps if there was a bit more of an objective approach toward what you actually need for a respectable abyss system, more people would probably go for it.  I know when I auditioned my pair, the cheapest amp available for audition was about $2k.  I listened to it and thought "this really is just as good as the $5k amps - I'll get away with this" so I bought it.  I've since realised after listening to the Abyss on amps that are cheaper still, I probably didn't even need to spend as much as I did.  If a system like this was more widely accepted as a perfectly respectable partner to the Abyss, I think more people would be willing to pull the trigger buying an Abyss to start with...


----------



## bigfatpaulie

andykong said:


> ...United States Only...


 
  
 Too bad, I would love to have auditioned this.


----------



## jelt2359

bigfatpaulie said:


> Too bad, I would love to have auditioned this.




Maybe he meant North America?


----------



## Kiats

andykong said:


> Thank you for your interest in our iDAC-6 and IHA-6 combo, I'll drop you a PM on Monday when I get back to my office computer.


----------



## knopi

mulder01 said:


> From what I've seen here in the past, in general, Abyss owners are not particularly interested in amps around $1k.  Which is a shame.


 
  
 Mm if I will go once again back to headphone (does not matter if Abyss, Audeze, HiFIMAN etc).. I would not have any problem to use 500-1000$ amp, I had in past one unknown amp it looked something like between diy and comercial product and it sounded great..
 Maybe reason is when somebody buy headpohne for $5K you want to have nice system not only for ears but even for your eyes


----------



## mulder01

knopi said:


> Mm if I will go once again back to headphone (does not matter if Abyss, Audeze, HiFIMAN etc).. I would not have any problem to use 500-1000$ amp, I had in past one unknown amp it looked something like between diy and comercial product and it sounded great..
> Maybe reason is when somebody buy headpohne for $5K you want to have nice system not only for ears but even for your eyes


 
  
 I totally get the pride of ownership thing.  The only reason I bought the phono stage I bought was because it matched my other gear...
  
 There are nice looking amps for $1k though.


----------



## metalboss

If one headphone tops the Utopia it's the Abyss AB-1266. http://www.cnet.com/news/could-this-be-the-worlds-best-headphone/


----------



## bigfatpaulie

metalboss said:


> If one headphone tops the Utopia it's the Abyss AB-1266. http://www.cnet.com/news/could-this-be-the-worlds-best-headphone/


 
  
 Well if a guy like Guttenberg said it...


----------



## bigfatpaulie

knopi said:


> Mm if I will go once again back to headphone (does not matter if Abyss, Audeze, HiFIMAN etc).. I would not have any problem to use 500-1000$ amp, I had in past one unknown amp it looked something like between diy and comercial product and it sounded great..
> Maybe reason is when somebody buy headpohne for $5K you want to have nice system not only for* ears but even for your eyes *


 
  
 I have a DAVE and Abyss - I assure you, I did not buy either for looks.  I bought them _despite _their looks.


----------



## Andykong

bigfatpaulie said:


> Too bad, I would love to have auditioned this.







jelt2359 said:


> Maybe he meant North America?




Sorry, we only plan for contiguous United States at this moment, have to minimize logistic cost, turn around time and custom/tax consequence. So far we have received two queries from Canada (including bigfatpaulie), In fact if there is enough interest in the combo, I can swing the iDAC-6 and iHA-6 to Canada after the US trip, but that will be 2-3 months from now. 

Wander if there is any HeadFi meet in Canada that I should look out for? Maybe we can bundle a tour and a meet attendance together.


----------



## Andykong

mulder01 said:


> It would be nice if people were a little more open minded to more budget friendly options for the Abyss.  Anyone who had been following this thread for a while will know that I've long maintained that you do NOT need to spend 5 grand on an amp for these, but it seems that I am in the minority.  I think that even after potential future Abyss owners have accepted the $4.5k price tag, they are often put off by assuming they'll need another $10k in the bank for the rest of the system otherwise it won't be worthwhile.  Perhaps if there was a bit more of an objective approach toward what you actually need for a respectable abyss system, more people would probably go for it.  I know when I auditioned my pair, the cheapest amp available for audition was about $2k.  I listened to it and thought "this really is just as good as the $5k amps - I'll get away with this" so I bought it.  I've since realised after listening to the Abyss on amps that are cheaper still, I probably didn't even need to spend as much as I did.  If a system like this was more widely accepted as a perfectly respectable partner to the Abyss, I think more people would be willing to pull the trigger buying an Abyss to start with...




I couldn't have put it better my friend.

In the private meet I mentioned in previous post, I borrowed the iHA-6 to the Abyss owner for home trial, and bought a set of iDAC-6 and iHA-6 before he return the demo unit to me. I think it is very important to have an open mind while you are looking for you next component.

Too bad I can't send the combo to you for audition, I sincerely hope you'll run into our combo in a gathering of some sort, if you do please spend some time with it and come back to share your impression with fellow Abyss users.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

andykong said:


> Sorry, we only plan for contiguous United States at this moment, have to minimize logistic cost, turn around time and custom/tax consequence. So far we have received two queries from Canada (including bigfatpaulie), In fact if there is enough interest in the combo, I can swing the iDAC-6 and iHA-6 to Canada after the US trip, but that will be 2-3 months from now.
> 
> Wander if there is any HeadFi meet in Canada that I should look out for? Maybe we can bundle a tour and a meet attendance together.


 
  
  
  
http://www.head-fi.org/groups/show/35/toronto-head-fiers-group


----------



## Andykong

bigfatpaulie said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/groups/show/35/toronto-head-fiers-group




Thanks for the lead, I have searched the forum but apparently neither the group nor the Canadian Personal Audio eXpo doesn't seems to be active in past year. do they publish their activates in other forum/location?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

andykong said:


> Thanks for the lead, I have searched the forum but apparently neither the group nor the Canadian Personal Audio eXpo doesn't seems to be active in past year. do they publish their activates in other forum/location?


 
  
 Let's chat via PM.  I'll send you one.


----------



## Andykong

bigfatpaulie said:


> Let's chat via PM.  I'll send you one.




Many thanks, looking forwards to.


----------



## jelt2359

mulder01 said:


> It would be nice if people were a little more open minded to more budget friendly options for the Abyss.  Anyone who had been following this thread for a while will know that I've long maintained that you do NOT need to spend 5 grand on an amp for these, but it seems that I am in the minority.  I think that even after potential future Abyss owners have accepted the $4.5k price tag, they are often put off by assuming they'll need another $10k in the bank for the rest of the system otherwise it won't be worthwhile.  Perhaps if there was a bit more of an objective approach toward what you actually need for a respectable abyss system, more people would probably go for it.  I know when I auditioned my pair, the cheapest amp available for audition was about $2k.  I listened to it and thought "this really is just as good as the $5k amps - I'll get away with this" so I bought it.  I've since realised after listening to the Abyss on amps that are cheaper still, I probably didn't even need to spend as much as I did.  If a system like this was more widely accepted as a perfectly respectable partner to the Abyss, I think more people would be willing to pull the trigger buying an Abyss to start with...


 
 Speaking personally, the Abyss wouldn't be the first headphone I buy. In fact, it was basically the last. At that time I had my dac and my amp all set up, for my other headphones and so on, before I even began to look at the Abyss (prohibitive price and looks). So actually I'm _saving_ some money by not looking any further.


----------



## potkettleblack

jelt2359 said:


> Speaking personally, the Abyss wouldn't be the first headphone I buy. In fact, it was basically the last. At that time I had my dac and my amp all set up, for my other headphones and so on, before I even began to look at the Abyss (prohibitive price and looks). So actually I'm _saving_ some money by not looking any further.


Get an Ifi already so I can say I told you so!


----------



## Andykong

kiats said:


> Andy, who carries this amp in Singapore? Would be interesting to give it a listen. Thanks!





sorry, this means to be a PM respond, won't want to disturb the group on personal arrangement.


----------



## paulchiu

bigfatpaulie said:


> I have a DAVE and Abyss - I assure you, I did not buy either for looks.  I bought them _despite _their looks.


 
  
 Maybe not the Abyss, but the DAVE looks pretty good.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

I still haven't come to like the looks of it to be honest.  Compared to other gear out there, I just don't consider the DAVE a good looking item.  But that's okay because it more than makes up for it where it counts in the SQ department.


----------



## stvc

paulchiu said:


> Maybe not the Abyss, but the DAVE looks pretty good.


 

 Do you find the power cord make different? I used isotek genesis mosaic notice power cord doesn't make much different but the PSU is.


----------



## paulchiu

stvc said:


> Do you find the power cord make different? I used isotek genesis mosaic notice power cord doesn't make much different but the PSU is.


 
  
 There is a noticeable lowering of the noise floor with the Shunyata sigma cables and Triton V2.
 No ill effects on the DAVE's wide dynamics or imaging.
  
 Paul


----------



## Torq

Random comment:
  
 Talking Heads "Sand in the Vaseline" via a WA5-LE Mk2 w/ parts upgrades (Level = High, Impedance = Low, Power = High), with Takatsuki 300B/274Bs and 6SN7GTs into the Abyss ... easily the best I've heard this album.
  
 The only thing I can recall that is even in contention was a vinyl version of this album, via a Michell Gyrodec, Halcro mono-blocks into Wilson's top of the line circa 2005 ... shure the Wilsons made it more visceral, but this is the closest I've gotten with headphones.
  
 Time to try it with the LCD-4.


----------



## Torq

No ... screw it ... this is just too holographic and dynamic, detailed, dynamic and fun ...
  
 Rest of the night with the Abyss it is ...


----------



## Torq

Random Tid-Bit:
  
 Magnets on the Abyss are sufficiently powerful that they're picking up NiMH batteries from my desk (didn't even know they had any ferrous material in them).


----------



## draytonklammer

torq said:


> Random Tid-Bit:
> 
> Magnets on the Abyss are sufficiently powerful that they're picking up NiMH batteries from my desk (didn't even know they had any ferrous material in them).




I remember when one of my collector tins stuck to my Abyss. That was a good chuckle


----------



## Torq

draytonklammer said:


> I remember when one of my collector tins stuck to my Abyss. That was a good chuckle


 

 Still enjoying your Abyss?
  
 Any regrets?
  
 They're still my overall favorite headphone-listen.
  
 LCD-4 might be a little more accurate, technically, but, for me, not nearly as enjoyable as Joe's babies.


----------



## mulder01

paulchiu said:


> Maybe not the Abyss, but the DAVE looks pretty good.


 
  
 I noticed you have a mighty impressive list of gear there in your signature, but with one obvious omission... Any particular reason for that?  I'm assuming it's not cost as it looks like the Dave's power cable costs more...


----------



## potkettleblack

A prize for the name of the headfi'er in this thread that was drinking [alcohol] in the last hour.


----------



## Torq

potkettleblack said:


> A prize for the name of the headfi'er in this thread that was drinking [alcohol] in the last hour.


 

 Oh lush!
  
 Wait ... I mean "Oh shush!" ... or something ...


----------



## paulchiu

mulder01 said:


> I noticed you have a mighty impressive list of gear there in your signature, but with one obvious omission... Any particular reason for that?  I'm assuming it's not cost as it looks like the Dave's power cable costs more...


 
  
 LOL @mulder01
 Are you referring to the earbuds?  Those are the Fujisan Telos. http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/FujisanTelos.pdf
  
 They have terrific imaging quality when paired with the DAVE.  Fantastic for small ensembles and female vocals.  Not meant to be driven hard or does it have much upper chest pounding bass.
  
  
 Pretty good for under $300
 https://goo.gl/UJiHCq
  
 Finally, they sound very good on the go with an iPhone 6 plus.
  
 paul


----------



## draytonklammer

torq said:


> Still enjoying your Abyss?
> 
> Any regrets?
> 
> ...




The Abyss is now my only headphone simply put.


----------



## tassardar

andykong said:


> I couldn't have put it better my friend.
> 
> In the private meet I mentioned in previous post, I borrowed the iHA-6 to the Abyss owner for home trial, and bought a set of iDAC-6 and iHA-6 before he return the demo unit to me. I think it is very important to have an open mind while you are looking for you next component.
> 
> Too bad I can't send the combo to you for audition, I sincerely hope you'll run into our combo in a gathering of some sort, if you do please spend some time with it and come back to share your impression with fellow Abyss users.


 
  
 I actually own the abyss with the IHA6
  
 And if anyone of you needs a amp I totally think its just worth to try it up


  
 At my dealer, it works better then the Questyle Mono stack, Liquid Carbon, and of course direct from the TT. Not a bad deal considered it cost 1/4 of my TT at where I am and definitely worthy of a try.


----------



## erik701

paulchiu said:


> Maybe not the Abyss, but the DAVE looks pretty good.


 

 I want to ask... This stand for DAVE is included in the box or you bought it separately? If yes, for how much?
  
 THANK YOU


----------



## paulchiu

erik701 said:


> I want to ask... This stand for DAVE is included in the box or you bought it separately? If yes, for how much?
> 
> THANK YOU


 
  
 The stand is sold separately for the DAVE, made by Chord.
 This one with 6.5" tall chrome legs is $3,300 in the US.
 The base stand with 3" matte legs is $2,700.
 Chrome plating adds $300.
  
 paul


----------



## Torq

paulchiu said:


> The stand is sold separately for the DAVE, made by Chord.
> This one with 6.5" tall chrome legs is $3,300 in the US.
> The base stand with 3" matte legs is $2,700.
> Chrome plating adds $300.
> ...


 

 You could buy a Yggdrasil and use that as a stand instead ...
  
 It still looks just as goofy, but is a bit cheaper and can double as a heater!
  
 (I kid ... well ... a bit ... I think DAVE is fabulous, but I think the stand is a bit of a lark and made no audible difference to me when I had one for audition ... we'll see again for my 2nd round of that though).


----------



## erik701

paulchiu said:


> The stand is sold separately for the DAVE, made by Chord.
> This one with 6.5" tall chrome legs is $3,300 in the US.
> The base stand with 3" matte legs is $2,700.
> Chrome plating adds $300.
> ...


 

 Wow, that's much more than I expected. Anyway, thanks Paul, much appreciated


----------



## draytonklammer

That pricing is just ridiculous. Shame on Chord.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

*WARNING!!!* Harsh opinions within.  *WARNING!!!*
  
 If you have thin skin, are easily offended or an all around angry person, please, please, *do not *read it.  If you do anyway, please, don't comment: I don't want to argue.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 
  What I always have a hard time dealing with is people's judgments on pricing...  
  
 It may be too expensive for _you_.  Or _you_ may feel that, for_ you_, it isn't worth it.  Or _you_ may feel that something is a 'rip off'.  Okay.  That's fine, but that's a_ YOU_ thing and has absolutely no bearing on the market place: you are only one person.  It is like saying, "I don't like cheese so they should make it taste different."  No, they shouldn't, you should just not buy cheese.  
  
 You won't buy it because it's over priced?  That's okay, you aren't the target market and you never were.  Chord didn't lose a sale, or a customer.  You weren't their market in the first place.  You think you know better?  Really?  Where is your multinational business to back that claim up?  Don't have one?  Maybe you aren't as market savvy as you say.
  
 People says stuff like, "no matter how much money I had, I would NEVER spend that much on THAT."  Really?  Because you don't know.  If money was no object you have no idea how you would act or what you would spend it on.  Need proof?  Did you know that about 70% of lottery winners deplete all their winnings in < 5 years?  Having lots of money isn't an easy thing to handle (believe it or not) it changes things and most people can't handle it.  
  
 Still not convinced?  How many celebrities go bankrupt?  And they were smart enough to make all that money in the first place; did you do that?  It's easy to judge.
  
 Now let's talk about a $3000 stand.
  
_I'd also like to point out that we are talking about a $3000 stant for a $13,000 DAC - A DAC that many people might say the exact same thing about.  Or the $5500 pair of headphones that this thread is dedicated to..._
  
 You would NEVER buy that?  Really?  No matter how rich you were?  What if you had $10billion?  As a percentage of your wealth it is 0.0000003%.  If you are an 'average American' your net worth (according to a 2014 Credit Suisse survey) is $301,000.  That same 0.0000003% of "your" net worth is $0.09.  Yup, this stand, to a very wealthy person, is like 9 cents to you.  
  
 Do you worry about 9 cents?  You do, or have you EVER, considered the value of 9 cents?  Of course not.  It's trival.  A silly amount.  Would you even bother picking up a dime from the street?  Maybe, but probably not, it could be gross.  
  
 But let's take that further - there aren't many billionaires around.  To a millionaire, 0.0000003% of 1,000,000 is $0.30.  30 cents.  The argument holds true.  
  
 Still not happy?  $3000 is <1% of the average American's net worth.  Do you worry about <1% of your worth?  Let's put that into perspective, if your boss offered you a 0.9% raise, what impact would that have on your life?  Just about zero. 
  
 So looking at the cost of something like this - designed and built for the wealthy - in such a narrow view of money is, well, irrelevant.  
  
 There are people literally starving on Earth.  How do you think they would feel reading about even the most modest gear on Head-fi?  They would probably think it's such a silly waste on over-priced trivial knick-knacks. How many chickens and guinea pigs can you buy for $3000?
  
 The walls in a glass house are thin, so let's all not pass judgment together, okay?
  


  
  
 If you skipped above:
  
 Yeah, the stand for the very expensive DAC is very expensive.


----------



## deuter

bigfatpaulie said:


> *WARNING!!!* Harsh opinions within.  *WARNING!!!*
> 
> If you have thin skin, are easily offended or an all around angry person, please, please, *do not *read it.  If you do anyway, please, don't comment: I don't want to argue.
> 
> ...


 
 Excellent post, this should put cry babies to sleep!


----------



## arnaud

Justifying a 3 grands stand for an ugly looking piece of gear. Yep, we're in the Abuss thread lol


----------



## jelt2359

Personally, I prefer to focus on the fact that it is _optional._ That's not the situation for all such products. You want it, you can afford it, 9 cents doesn't mean much, you buy it.
  
 If you can't, you get to save a pretty penny. I think this is highly commendable. If only more companies would act like that. Imagine if that headphone you're buying gives you a $300 top-up option on their balanced cable, rather than bundling it together ala take it or leave it. I would greatly welcome that!


----------



## paulchiu

torq said:


> You could buy a Yggdrasil and use that as a stand instead ...
> 
> It still looks just as goofy, but is a bit cheaper and can double as a heater!
> 
> (I kid ... well ... a bit ... I think DAVE is fabulous, but I think the stand is a bit of a lark and made no audible difference to me when I had one for audition ... we'll see again for my 2nd round of that though).


 
  
 I guess I can but the Yggdrasil would not be a good DAVE stand as it blocks the vent-holes in the bottom.
  
 paul


----------



## Beolab

bigfatpaulie said:


> *[COLOR=FF0000]WARNING!!![/COLOR]* Harsh opinions within.  *[COLOR=FF0000]WARNING!!![/COLOR]*
> 
> If you have thin skin, are easily offended or an all around angry person, please, please, *do not* read it.  If you do anyway, please, don't comment: I don't want to argue.
> 
> ...




Haha, yes i got also the new Chord Alu Coral Modular stand that i payed 4000 dollar for , and 750$ for the Chord metall remote shell, yes the price on alu are a bit high. 
And if the DAVE where made of plastic i think we would pay less than half the price  

But hey i bought some gucci swim shorts for 430€ last week and they are more expensive than gold / gram in weight , so it is up to to decide what you want to spend your money on, and what is worthy or not


----------



## mulder01

bigfatpaulie said:


> *snip*


 
  
 Seems a little bit of an over reaction - he only said it was dearer than he thought... I can see both sides - normally people would be able to look at that stand and realise that it probably costs $200ish a pop to make, but Chord knows that someone who will drop $13k on a dac will also fork out $3-4k for a stand and they can get away with it because they know their market has the cash and will buy it whether they price it at $800 or $3300, so why not make it $3300?  I think the complaint was that it was unethical rather than anything.  But same story with any major label brand of anything though like Beolab said - $10 in material for swimmers sells for €430 and people will still buy it.  A friend of my wife spent $6k on a handbag because it has a Louis Vuitton label on it...  To each their own though.  Gotta spend it on something so you may as well do what makes you happy.
  


paulchiu said:


> LOL @mulder01
> Are you referring to the earbuds?  Those are the Fujisan Telos. http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/FujisanTelos.pdf


 
  
 Haha as funny as the earbuds look plugged into that DAC, I was actually talking about the Abyss not being on the list!


----------



## deuter

mulder01 said:


> Seems a little bit of an over reaction - he only said it was dearer than he thought... I can see both sides - normally people would be able to look at that stand and realise that it probably costs $200ish a pop to make, but Chord knows that someone who will drop $13k on a dac will also fork out $3-4k for a stand and they can get away with it because they know their market has the cash and will buy it whether they price it at $800 or $3300, so why not make it $3300?  I think the complaint was that it was unethical rather than anything.  But same story with any major label brand of anything though like Beolab said - $10 in material for swimmers sells for €430 and people will still buy it.  A friend of my wife spent $6k on a handbag because it has a Louis Vuitton label on it...  To each their own though.  Gotta spend it on something so you may as well do what makes you happy.
> 
> 
> Haha as funny as the earbuds look plugged into that DAC, I was actually talking about the Abyss not being on the list!




I don't think it's unethical, it's just business.
You don't like it don't buy it, no one is forcing you. What is unethical is German Car services where you fork out on simple oil change just cause it's their special oil and no other can be used else you void the warranty.


----------



## mulder01

deuter said:


> I don't think it's unethical, it's just business.
> You don't like it don't buy it, no one is forcing you. What is unethical is German Car services where you fork out on simple oil change just cause it's their special oil and no other can be used else you void the warranty.


 
  
 Yeah, like I said, I see both sides to the story and to each his own - was just trying to look at it from all perspectives.  BFP just got extremely defensive is all.  I suppose he is tired of hearing it though - which I understand too.  I don't tell anyone IRL that I spent $6k on headphones because it's just annoying having to explain it every time...


----------



## draytonklammer

If I were a billionaire I still wouldn't buy a stand that expensive.
  
 I'm not saying no one should, I am saying I will never. It comes down to production costs. I could have a custom stand build with higher quality materials for less.


----------



## mulder01

Not even if you had 
  

  
  
 Though, I bet when you first got into headphones and heard about the Abyss you thought "no way - not ever"...


----------



## Sandy

draytonklammer said:


> If I were a billionaire I still wouldn't buy a stand that expensive.
> 
> I'm not saying no one should, I am saying I will never. It comes down to production costs. I could have a custom stand build with higher quality materials for less.


 
  
 The stand probably costs $300 to make in the quantities that they expect to sell. So $3K is about right with the industry markups.
  
 I know that we think that expensive electronics & headphones are worth the money, but they usually have the same high markups.


----------



## deuter

sandy said:


> The stand probably costs $300 to make in the quantities that they expect to sell. So $3K is about right with the industry markups.
> 
> I know that we think that expensive electronics & headphones are worth the money, but they usually have the same high markups.






True, but with electronics you pay for the RnD and a lot of it goes in designing amp and dacs especially.


----------



## jelt2359

draytonklammer said:


> If I were a billionaire I still wouldn't buy a stand that expensive.
> 
> I'm not saying no one should, I am saying I will never. It comes down to production costs. I could have a custom stand build with higher quality materials for less.


 
 When you are a billionaire, I'd wager that the time you would need to spend to get a custom stand built, including finding the guy, going through designs, and so on, would probably be worth more than the cost of the Chord Dave stand.
  
 Also when you're a billionaire time will be much more limited than money. You're probably much more inclined to optimise the time you get to spend with the Dave, than spend even a single second worrying about how to build a custom stand.
  
 I think @bigfatpaulie 's analogy about 9 cents is very apt. Even if I could get something custom-made for 1 cents, I'd just pay the 9 cents if it saves me any time at all.


----------



## edwardsean

Hi. I see some Hugo TTs out there. Have any of you compared the Hugo TT to the Moon Neo 430HAD DAC/amp to DAC/amp? In wondering what the best all in one package would be for the Abyss.


----------



## jelt2359

Probably should throw the chord Dave into the mix too.


----------



## mulder01

...except the dave is _way way_ dearer...


----------



## Torq

edwardsean said:


> Hi. I see some Hugo TTs out there. Have any of you compared the Hugo TT to the Moon Neo 430HAD DAC/amp to DAC/amp? In wondering what the best all in one package would be for the Abyss.


 
  
 I was asked that question in another thread, although with somewhat different context ... so rather than re-post what I said, I'll just give you a link to it.
  
 I'll add, here, that I prefer both the Abyss and LCD-4 using additional amplifiers when paired with the Chord DACs (up to, and including, DAVE).  You *do* lose a very small, but discernible, amount of transparency in doing so, but with those particular headphones _*I*_ preferred the _overall _result with additional amplification (in my case a WA5-LE Mk2 w/ Takatsuki tubes).
  
 Now, whether my preference is down to having more headroom available, or if it's just simple coloration from the amp, I don't know.  But my preference was consistent


----------



## a1uc

I just got my WA5-LE Mk2 today and did a quick listen , I think that I like the sound over the 430 with my Abyss . I will prob keep both for now . I'm hoping to upgrade tubes soon


----------



## Torq

a1uc said:


> I just got my WA5-LE Mk2 today and did a quick listen , I think that I like the sound over the 430 with my Abyss . I will prob keep both for now . I'm hoping to upgrade tubes soon


 
  
 Congrats!
  
 The stock tubes are not bad at all.  And the amp is so simple in design that changes in tubes are quite apparent - often more so than in other designs.
  
 What settings are you using on the amp?
  
 I wound up using High "Level", High Power and Low Impedance.


----------



## a1uc

Yup same settings , I'm plan on getting some Takatsuki tubes soon , I heard once you hear them 
You got to have them


----------



## Torq

a1uc said:


> Yup same settings , I'm plan on getting some Takatsuki tubes soon , I heard once you hear them
> You got to have them


 
  
 I'd go along with that!
  
 I deliberately took a slower progression to the Takatsukis - which wasn't necessarily financially very smart, but was both interesting and enlightening ... first starting with the Sophia 274 and 300B mesh (actually punched-plate) and then moving up from there to where I am now.


----------



## Thenewguy007

a1uc said:


> I just got my WA5-LE Mk2 today and did a quick listen , I think that I like the sound over the 430 with my Abyss . I will prob keep both for now . I'm hoping to upgrade tubes soon




How would you describe the differences between the two amps?

I always hear about the Woo Audio overly warm signature & Moon Audio's soft signature. Do you think that applies when comparing the two amps?


----------



## Torq

thenewguy007 said:


> How would you describe the differences between the two amps?
> 
> I always hear about the Woo Audio overly warm signature & Moon Audio's soft signature. Do you think that applies when comparing the two amps?


 

 One goes to eleven!


----------



## Torq

torq said:


> One goes to eleven!


 
  


thenewguy007 said:


> How would you describe the differences between the two amps?
> 
> I always hear about the Woo Audio overly warm signature & Moon Audio's soft signature. Do you think that applies when comparing the two amps?


 

 Now, being serious for a moment!
  
 I've had several people tell me the Woo is warm or slow ... and I can only attribute that to the tubes they were using.  It's a VERY simple, if quite elegant, amplifier design.  This means that much of its signature comes from the tubes in use.  I know Woo changed what tubes they shipped as standard between the Mk1 and Mk2  versions of the WA5-LE and that might have something to do with it.  The stock tubes I got with my Mk2 just a few months ago were fast, pacy and punchy with excellent dynamics ... and neutral with just a slight hint of euphony in the mids.
  
 As to the Moon ... I don't have TONS of experience with it, but my impressions were that it was tight, precise, detailed, articulate, nicely dynamic and not something I would tend to describe as soft at all.  In fact I might go a bit the other way.
  
 Just my thoughts though ... I have lots of experience with the Woo and much less with the 430.


----------



## zimzim2001

torq said:


> Now, being serious for a moment!
> 
> I've had several people tell me the Woo is warm or slow ... and I can only attribute that to the tubes they were using.  It's a VERY simple, if quite elegant, amplifier design.  This means that much of its signature comes from the tubes in use.  I know Woo changed what tubes they shipped as standard between the Mk1 and Mk2  versions of the WA5-LE and that might have something to do with it.  The stock tubes I got with my Mk2 just a few months ago were fast, pacy and punchy with excellent dynamics ... and neutral with just a slight hint of euphony in the mids.
> 
> ...


 

 Torq have you ever heard the Abyss with WA5-LE Mk1?  I have a Mk1 and I'm wondering if there's any reason at all for me to get a Mk2.  I'm thinking about getting an Abyss.  I'm using Sophia Princess Mesh Plate  300B & 274B and Sylvania brown base NOS driver tubes.  Thanks.


----------



## Torq

zimzim2001 said:


> Torq have you ever heard the Abyss with WA5-LE Mk1?  I have a Mk1 and I'm wondering if there's any reason at all for me to get a Mk2.  I'm thinking about getting an Abyss.  I'm using Sophia Princess Mesh Plate  300B & 274B and Sylvania brown base NOS driver tubes.  Thanks.


 

 I can't say that I have, sorry!
  
 I'm not even sure if the newer model has any changes that affect its general audio performance (it may, I just don't know).  The impression I had gotten was the changes were mostly operational - e.g. having a power-selector switch vs. a high-power and a low-power output socket.
  
 In terms of comparison, this might help - though it doesn't directly answer your question.


----------



## mulder01

The old WA5LE was a SE headphone amp only (1-2 watts I think?) and the old WA5 was the same, but had an additional speaker amp section (about 8 watts?) and the balanced headphone out was connected to the speaker amp section... From memory...

I suppose the difference would be the new LE would be balanced and have more head room? But if the sound of the WA5 mostly comes from the tubes and there is still enough power (although not as much as the new version), then you would expect it to sound relatively similar, right?

Just my assumption though, I haven't heard them... I do remember, in the past, most people who bought the old WA5 for the Abyss didn't get the LE because they wanted the more powerful balanced output. I don't recall seeing heaps impressions with the old LE (though I'm sure there was a couple) so you might have trouble finding someone who has compared the old LE to the new LE. Sure there will be some differences, but I wouldn't let it stop you from buying Abyss.


----------



## Torq

mulder01 said:


> The old WA5LE was a SE headphone amp only (1-2 watts I think?) and the old WA5 was the same, but had an additional speaker amp section (about 8 watts?) and the balanced headphone out was connected to the speaker amp section... From memory...
> 
> I suppose the difference would be the new LE would be balanced and have more head room? But if the sound of the WA5 mostly comes from the tubes and there is still enough power (although not as much as the new version), then you would expect it to sound relatively similar, right?
> 
> Just my assumption though, I haven't heard them... I do remember, in the past, most people who bought the old WA5 for the Abyss didn't get the LE because they wanted the more powerful balanced output. I don't recall seeing heaps impressions with the old LE (though I'm sure there was a couple) so you might have trouble finding someone who has compared the old LE to the new LE. Sure there will be some differences, but I wouldn't let it stop you from buying Abyss.


 

 The current (Mk2) WA5-LE is still a single-ended design, it just has "convenience" inputs/outputs for balanced sources and headphones.


----------



## mulder01

Ah ok wow so what, there's just nothing connected to two of the pins on the balanced headphone out or something?


----------



## Torq

No, the pins are connected - it converts the connections to/from the single-ended internals, presumably with transformers.


----------



## mulder01

Well Tyll sure seemed to like the Utopia calling it the "world's best headphone".  Has anyone else got any thoughts on the Abyss v Utopia?


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> Well Tyll sure seemed to like the Utopia calling it the "world's best headphone".  Has anyone else got any thoughts on the Abyss v Utopia?




http://www.cnet.com/news/could-this-be-the-worlds-best-headphone/

According to this review the Abyss are better in every aspect SQ wise, and from what i have heard from friends that this statement stands, the Abyss vs Utopia , the Abyss excel it in every aspect, so i think Tyll have to buy a DAVE and try a new set of Abyss once again.


----------



## Torq

mulder01 said:


> Well Tyll sure seemed to like the Utopia calling it the "world's best headphone".  Has anyone else got any thoughts on the Abyss v Utopia?


 

 Beyond being very interested to hear the Utopia, especially along side my Abyss, not yet!
  
 Will have to try and make it a 6-way comparison with the Abyss, LCD-4, Utopia, Ether Flow, HD800S and one last try with electrostatics (not sure which yet).


----------



## draytonklammer

I will be trying the Utopia alongside my Abyss soon out of curiosity.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

beolab said:


> http://www.cnet.com/news/could-this-be-the-worlds-best-headphone/
> 
> According to this review the Abyss are better in every aspect SQ wise, and from what i have heard from friends that this statement stands, the Abyss vs Utopia , the Abyss excel it in every aspect, so i think Tyll have to buy a DAVE and try a new set of Abyss once again.


 
  
  
 Really?  Guttenberg?  Are you trying to make a case against the Abyss??


----------



## potkettleblack

Small soundstage (supposedly on par with the hd600 and bested by the LCD X [lol]) and the same bass quantity as the stock HD800.

I'm sure they will be great for the things they do well (specifically the treble/clarity), but the above reasons are a deal breaker for me. 

And to be frank Tylls opinion is meaning less and less at the minute to me. He called the treble on e-stats 'fuzzy' which I found hilarious given his previous opinions on the 009 and a couple of weeks ago he called the Elear 'meh' on another site and then he releases the review he did.

I'm impressed Jude gave what seemed to be a very honest opinion stating they were very good but were not better than the best planers (I'm guessing one being the Abyss ) and they were bested by the 009/007.

There are gonna be things the Utopia does that others don't, but this whole 'they do everything better than everything and they are the best in the world ever' nonsense will soon level out when more people get to hear them.

I'm very intrigued by what seems to be their best trait - namely, their precision and ability to let you see into the mix - which many seem to be in agreement that they do this better than anything currently available.

Props to focal for doing this with so much competition.


----------



## ufospls2

I'm looking forward to trying to Utopia soon, and the Elear, but am not sure it will be one of those blow you away experiences. I enjoy my LCD-4 and Abyss and will be adding an HD800S to my collection next week probably. Will the Utopia be good enough to make me go WOW and drop that kind of cash on a headphone again? Who knows. I sure am looking forward to trying it though.


beolab said:


> http://www.cnet.com/news/could-this-be-the-worlds-best-headphone/
> 
> According to this review the Abyss are better in every aspect SQ wise, and from what i have heard from friends that this statement stands, the Abyss vs Utopia , the Abyss excel it in every aspect, so i think Tyll have to buy a DAVE and try a new set of Abyss once again.


 
 You used to be a proponent of the Abyss needing POOOOOWWAARRRRR (think Jeremy Clarkson) to be worth listening to. The DAVE only outputs 1.4 watts into 33ohms using the headphone output. Have you changed your opinion? Or do you mean DAVE being used as a DAC in conjunction with another amplifier with lots of power?


----------



## Torq

ufospls2 said:


> I'm looking forward to trying to Utopia soon, and the Elear, but am not sure it will be one of those blow you away experiences. I enjoy my LCD-4 and Abyss and will be adding an HD800S to my collection next week probably. Will the Utopia be good enough to make me go WOW and drop that kind of cash on a headphone again? Who knows. I sure am looking forward to trying it though.
> You used to be a proponent of the Abyss needing POOOOOWWAARRRRR (think Jeremy Clarkson) to be worth listening to. The DAVE only outputs 1.4 watts into 33ohms using the headphone output. Have you changed your opinion? Or do you mean DAVE being used as a DAC in conjunction with another amplifier with lots of power?


 
  
 Abyss, LCD-4 & HD800S is a _really_ nice combination (it's what I settled on earlier in the year).

 I know my preference is to run DAVE into a more powerful amplifier when driving the Abyss.  I'd say the same with the LCD-4.  DAVE still sounds fabulous driving them directly, but overall I preferred both of those headphones via an external amplifier and just using DAVE as a DAC.  Yes, there's a _small_ (I don't think it's big enough to notice unless you compared back-to-back) loss in transparency doing this, but other factors make that a worthwhile trade-off for me.
  
 This has the, for me, non-trivial benefit of allowing DAVE to be hidden from sight unless I'm changing something.
  
 With HD800S I liked them straight out of DAVE best.  And with electrostatics, if my experiments there don't wind up like they did last time will, of course, require an external amp anyway.
  
 So if I do wind up picking up a DAVE, it'll be run into an amplifier for 95% of its usage.


----------



## mulder01

ufospls2 said:


> I'm looking forward to trying to Utopia soon, and the Elear, but am not sure it will be one of those blow you away experiences. I enjoy my LCD-4 and Abyss and will be adding an HD800S to my collection next week probably. Will the Utopia be good enough to make me go WOW and drop that kind of cash on a headphone again? Who knows. I sure am looking forward to trying it though.
> You used to be a proponent of the Abyss needing POOOOOWWAARRRRR (think Jeremy Clarkson) to be worth listening to. The DAVE only outputs 1.4 watts into 33ohms using the headphone output. Have you changed your opinion? Or do you mean DAVE being used as a DAC in conjunction with another amplifier with lots of power?


 
  
 You're right, one watt is a fair bit less than 16...
  
  
 I'm not gonna lie I don't really read reviews and so I went straight to the summary.  Tyll lost me at "Though the audio image is small and the bass just a tad light"... (The two things I most love about the AB are lacking)
 But I tend to take reviews with a very big grain of salt these days so I was wondering what some fellow Abyss owners thought as the Abyss wasn't Tyll's favourite to begin with and everyone has different tastes.  AFAIK they are not available to audition in Australia yet...


----------



## a1uc




----------



## cladane

I'm not an all going reviewers fan but you cannot take off the fact that Tyll H has a personal point of view which he sticks on every time he writes a review.
  
 About Focal Utopia he defines what 4k USD headphones must be in his opinion (black, sexy, not too heavy, tonal balance, precision, punch, microdetail) to accurately play music (not always enjoyable if you prefer coloration like with the HEK for ex as Tyll states it). It seems he never found ALL those features at the same time until the Utopia.
  
 Abyss is very very good for imaging and bass. They are black but ugly, forget luxury.
 You don't want to use them to listen to vocals, LCD4 are by far mediums contenders. Trebles are more refined through the 009...
  
 BUT seeking bass and imaging you will get the Abyss. I imagine that costing 6000 usd Tyll doesn't find those characteristics worth the amount but from my point of view (large scale phalanxes recordings) it is.
  
 Anyway, I will listen to those new comers. Impressive new technology.


----------



## potkettleblack

I've only heard one headphone that matches the Abyss with vocals and that's the MK2. Both on par; one being lusher, the other being more energetic.

I haven't heard a headphone that beats either of those two. That includes any Audeze.


----------



## phase0

I'm still lurking. I was hoping to see more Abyss vs Utopia opinions but it looks like people haven't heard them yet. With all the hype on the new announcements (Ether Flow too)... I may hold off a couple more months until I can demo them all at CanJam before I make a move. TBH I was hoping Focal beats Abyss because they definitely do on looks. I'm worried about some of the comments on Utopia. I seem to recall impressions that said while the Utopia was nice they'd rate it more towards a $2k headphone, not $4k. If Tyll is saying the bass is okay on Utopia just add some EQ you also have to factor in the cost of the AU/VST plugin into your total cost. Also lots of comments confirming it is a bit bass light and people saying they would have preferred Elear's tuning. Seems like Abyss will still stay #1. Looking forward to some more impressions from you folks who can get your hands on them.


----------



## erik701

phase0 said:


> I'm still lurking. I was hoping to see more Abyss vs Utopia opinions but it looks like people haven't heard them yet. With all the hype on the new announcements (Ether Flow too)... I may hold off a couple more months until I can demo them all at CanJam before I make a move. TBH I was hoping Focal beats Abyss because they definitely do on looks. I'm worried about some of the comments on Utopia. I seem to recall impressions that said while the Utopia was nice they'd rate it more towards a $2k headphone, not $4k. If Tyll is saying the bass is okay on Utopia just add some EQ you also have to factor in the cost of the AU/VST plugin into your total cost. Also lots of comments confirming it is a bit bass light and people saying they would have preferred Elear's tuning. Seems like Abyss will still stay #1. Looking forward to some more impressions from you folks who can get your hands on them.


 

 Exactly my opinion, I also think that Utopia should cost 2k, not 4k. You can read article which I started, it's regarding new announcements on high-end headphone field in last couple of months.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/816631/frankly-speaking-current-situation-and-news-on-headphone-market


----------



## cladane

potkettleblack said:


> I've only heard one headphone that matches the Abyss with vocals and that's the MK2. Both on par; one being lusher, the other being more energetic.
> 
> I haven't heard a headphone that beats either of those two. That includes any Audeze.


 

 Anyone has his own opinion which is based on his own tastes and this is not always transparency.
 About mids I was referring to the consensus.


----------



## potkettleblack

cladane said:


> Anyone has his own opinion which is based on his own tastes and this is not always transparency.
> About mids I was referring to the consensus.


 Exactly. So you actually meant you yourself don't want to use them for vocals.

Got it.


----------



## Xecuter

I noted the grill is covered in the prototype with a thin material, I have covered some of mine in creatology foam with felt over the top, this has reduced reflections and in my opinion improved certain aspects of classical music.
 I'm interested in what material they have used on this prototype.. Any ideas?
  
 I am working on covering the entire grill with foam and felt but don't want to cover the slots.
  

 Also working on a 3d printed slip on so I can roll some different leather pads on the abyss.
  
 Has anyone else tinkered with mods on their Abyss?


----------



## a1uc

so you buy. 4500 headphone and mod it thinking you'll make it sound better than the manufacture


----------



## Xecuter

I have little to complain about with the sound of the abyss.
  
 This to me makes much more sense than lets say rolling cables?
 There is obvious high frequency issue on the FR of the abyss which is audible with certain types of music. Reducing reflection has improved this audibly in my opinion.
  
 The hd800 requires significant modification to be even slightly tolerable... What is the problem with a completely harmless and reversible mod for interests sake??


----------



## potkettleblack

If a track sounds too bright - I change the fit setting and it goes. Too dark and I do the same thing.

I honestly see no purpose in modding the Abyss 'to improve the sound'. It gives you all the tools to do that already.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

We never used any absorptive material on the driver's baffle, even on the prototype.

Problems with highs on the AB-1266 are associated with the system and/or the recording, the source or DAC quality. You can mod the headphones for certain tracks, but then it will not be proper for other tracks. One suggestion is to use the highest rez tracks you can find as they tend to be smoother in the highs, not as digital or tizzy sounding.

Ultimately you'll find over time as your system evolves around the AB-1266, music will sound more refined.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Although I don't see an issue with modding expensive headphones (people modify expensive cars, so why would this be different?) but I also agree that because of the design of the Abyss, I can't see it being required; fit has such a dramatic impact on the sound.  
  
 I suppose if your upstream gear has deficiencies something drastic on a case by case basis like foam may be an inexpensive way to try and compensate for it.  But so would EQing I guess...


----------



## Xecuter

Baha.

The high frequencies in the mid range kept the abyss off of tylls wall of fame. A keen modder on another forum also has some excellent FR graphs before and after this sort of mod on the abyss as well as waterfall plots. 
The abyss is the best sounding headphone on the market period. Ofc imo.
It's FR has shown it does things a little differently.. and yes Joe it is the tizzy sound in some orchestral pieces i am trying to alleviate.

This is not a modification because of an upstream issue. Even without my new amp arriving.. Sure the ragnarok has a small amount of treble glare but that is not what i was trying to alter. The BoM on my new amp is insane and maybe my silly little mod sounds worse with it then I will throw it away.

Sorry if i sound a little agitated, but I have heard the abyss on 50kusd+ systems and upstream is super important but it is definitely not an issue for me.

This mod is like another thing for me to roll in or roll out depending on what I'm listening too. Like my tubes or my scotch. If you do a little research yourself and look at the measurents you will see you get a 'different' sound. Maybe you like this, maybe you don't..
Things that make my music sound worse go in the bin.


----------



## mulder01

I've never really been interested in modding my headphones but I could see why someone might want to have a play around. I would expect a soft surface to absorb more reflections than a piece of aluminium. 
Will I do it to mine? Probably not. Should you have something against someone who wants to cheaply and easily change something they don't like about it? Probably not. 
Especially when some are spending thousands on cables - sometimes with the aim of achieving the same result as a few bucks worth of foam. 
I like the Abyss how it is, but everyone who has something negative to say about it is almost always commenting on the highs. I don't hear it personally, but some people do. Would be interested to hear what someone who didn't like the Abyss's highs thought of it...


----------



## ufospls2

These headphones all have their own characteristics which make them special. I don't think I can pick one I like most overall. They all do their "thing" so well. The Abyss is just awesome. Its actually kinda like a combination of the LCD-4 and HD800S...with its own special flavour thrown in. Lots of fun listening to all three.


----------



## Xecuter

Nice collection. have you heard the utopia yet? I'm hoping it's the yin to the yang of the abyss.
  
 Yet to hear a remarkable dynamic driver so will be happy if it lives up to the hype!


----------



## ufospls2

xecuter said:


> Nice collection. have you heard the utopia yet? I'm hoping it's the yin to the yang of the abyss.
> 
> Yet to hear a remarkable dynamic driver so will be happy if it lives up to the hype!


 
 I haven't heard the Utopia yet  My local dealer will be the first to have them in Canada, so hopefully I will be able to hear them soon. I like the way they look, and all the initial reports seem to be positive. I didn't think I would be interested in them, but I'm curious now.


----------



## x RELIC x

ufospls2 said:


> I haven't heard the Utopia yet  My local dealer will be the first to have them in Canada, so hopefully I will be able to hear them soon. I like the way they look, and all the initial reports seem to be positive. I didn't think I would be interested in them, but I'm curious now.




Actually Headphone Bar is the launch point for Canada and has had them in stock yesterday already. I bought a pair right away. Sadly, they are sold out currently, but you can listen to the demo pair apparently.


----------



## ufospls2

x relic x said:


> Actually Headphone Bar is the launch point for Canada and has had them in stock yesterday already. I bought a pair right away. Sadly, they are sold out currently, but you can listen to the demo pair apparently.


 
 My local dealer is headphone bar. So what I said was right. I thought Travis only had the Elear in? Not the Utopia yet.


----------



## x RELIC x

ufospls2 said:


> My local dealer is headphone bar. So what I said was right. I thought Travis only had the Elear in? Not the Utopia yet.




He has both for demo in store. There were only two Utopias in the shipment, I got one of them. It would be interesting to read a comparison between the AB-1266 and Utopia.

http://www.headphonebar.com/focal-utopia/


----------



## mulder01

I take it that means you haven't compared it to the Abyss then?


----------



## x RELIC x

No, but I'd love to know what ufospls2 thinks of the Utopia compared to the Abyss, which is pretty much why I've mentioned twice they are on demo at his/my dealer.


----------



## Beolab

I think after all reviews i have read and the indicated impressions from a few friends who owns the Abyss, that the Abyss wipe the floor with the Utopia. It is to restrained in the bottom end, and the soundstadge is very small. 
So it is a lightweight Abyss Jr the most of it, so you can all go back to what you where doing and open a cold beer and relax, the Abyss is still the King, no need to search for a new headphone if you like what your hear already. Not even a compliment in my book. 

Second: 

After many houers spent on the fitting back and forth after 1,5 years, i can finally give you my secret recipe for the ultimate sound for a medium - big sized head where it is a problem to not have a full seal and restrain the dynamic deep bass, so you want a slight lekage but not to much:

Here is the setting you have to try out with heads about 60cm / 23,6 inches around. 

I start with to have the stitching on my earcups at 3 o'clock pionting forward, 
(if you have the headphone on your head and the stitching are then pionting straight forward) and the short abyss headband with the alu headframe tilted max toe out, so you getting a slight front lekage and have set the wideness of the alu frame in the middle. 
(I have not bent the frame anything)

This will create the most perfect weighted visceral and spacius sound that can almost make you fell a tear 

Magic sound...


----------



## ufospls2

x relic x said:


> No, but I'd love to know what @ufospls2 thinks of the Utopia compared to the Abyss, which is pretty much why I've mentioned twice they are on demo at his/my dealer.


 
 Its a shame, I was just there a couple days ago but didn't have time to ask to listen to the Utopia. Next time I'm in I will.


----------



## ufospls2

x relic x said:


> No, but I'd love to know what @ufospls2 thinks of the Utopia compared to the Abyss, which is pretty much why I've mentioned twice they are on demo at his/my dealer.


 
 I'm probably going to be at the headphone bar in the next couple days it looks like, maybe even tomorrow. If Travis is ok with it, I will ask if I can give the Utopia a go and do a comparison to the AB-1266. Looking forward to it.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

beolab said:


> I think after all reviews i have read and the indicated impressions from a few friends who owns the Abyss, that the *Abyss wipe the floor with the Utopia.*


 
  
  
 Like the Abyss uses the Focals as a cleaning product?  Is there a headphone that I can get my Abyss to clean my windows with?  That would really be ideal for me, to be honest.


----------



## Kiats

ufospls2 said:


> I'm probably going to be at the headphone bar in the next couple days it looks like, maybe even tomorrow. If Travis is ok with it, I will ask if I can give the Utopia a go and do a comparison to the AB-1266. Looking forward to it.




Look forward to your impressions. Ufospls2. There's been so much talk about it. It would be good to hear your perspective.


----------



## matthewhypolite

I'm also considering getting a utopia after all the hype,would be great hearing some abyss/he1000 comparisons.


----------



## Xecuter

My quad of NOS AVVT 2a3 mesh has come in. Now I just need them to mail my amp!
 Getting really excited!


----------



## ufospls2

Well,
  
 Today I had the chance to listen to the Focal Utopia and my Abyss AB-1266 in the same session. Who was the winner? Neither! They are so different, but so similar, its hard to say one is better than the other. The Utopia is a FANTASTIC headphone. The Abyss is a FANTASTIC headphone. I really enjoyed both of them. The Abyss is a larger than life experience for your ears. Big soundstage, like its enveloping your whole head. The Utopia is a smaller experience, more intimate. I’ll get more specific below. I’d really like more time with the Utopia to get my head around it more, but I listened enough to get the big picture. Hopefully some day I’ll be able to afford it and do some super in depth listening. Until then, I’ll just be happy with my experience from today.
  
 Bass: I’m a bit of a bass head, so for me, the Abyss is the winner in this category. The Abyss just does bass so well, and there is SO much of it. Whilst there is SO much of it, it isn’t overpowering leaving you wanting more mids and treble. Its such a well balanced sound signature, with an emphasis on the bass. The Utopia has less bass, but its quality is superb. Very cohesive and well rounded. I tried bumping up the bass on the Utopia about 2.5db around 60hz with EQ, which took it to another level, for me, as I like bass. The bass is fast and accurate on the Utopia, similar to the Abyss. All in all, both headphones do bass very well, I just happen to like the bigger fuller bass of the Abyss. 
  
 Mids: The winner here, is the Utopia. Very smooth and nicely presented. I wouldn’t say the Utopia is a warm headphone, but it isn’t cold and clinical either. The mids aren’t overbearing, and don’t wash out any of the other frequencies. The lower mids could maybe be a bit less present, but this is something you can play about EQ with, and tweak to your liking. The mids are on the Utopia are….silky? Does that make sense. They flow together so well. The mids on the Abyss are great, as I said, both these headphone in general are GREAT. Its just that with the Utopia they are a bit different, and different in a way that rustled my jimmies, in a good way. 
  
 Treble: Tie. Between the Abyss and the Utopia the Treble isn’t harsh on either. I didn’t hear spikes at any frequency that would make your ears bleed. The highs are clear and precise, but not overly so, on both headphones. The crystal shimmer of Brian Blades Spizzichinos and Old K came across so well it was enough to put a smile on my face. 
  
 Soundstage: I like a big soundstage, so for me, the Abyss wins in this section. Its more “out of the head” and…speaker like for lack of a better expression. The Utopia is more intimate, more headphone like. The soundstage on the Utopia is smaller than that of the HD800S, but not by too much. With that being said
  
 Imaging: Utopia wins on this one. My god, it is accurate. Pin point precision on where stuff is and it makes it so easy to figure out what is going on. I didn’t try any, but I’m sure binaural recordings would make you go wow with the Utopia. The Imaging on the Abyss is no slouch though, just not as accurate as the Utopia. If you get a recording you know like the back of your hand, that you now where everything goes and have experienced on many headphones, give it a listen on the Utopia. It will tell you where things really are in the recording. 
  
 Build Quality: Tie. The Abyss is an industrial like tank. I love it. Some hate it. It floats my boat, although it is a heavy headphone. Once you get the Abyss set up right, which takes a while, the weight doesn’t bother me at all. I guess I have a strong neck or something, as the LCD-4 doesn’t bother me either. The Abyss just feels so solid and well made. The Utopia feels SUPER premium. Its like an F1 car. All carbon fiber-y and leather. It is lighter than the Abyss, and you notice it on your head less than the Abyss. 
  
 Comparisons to other headphones? Hmm, I didn’t have my other cans with me so I will just do this quickly, and take it with a grain of salt is I didn’t do a direct comparison as I did with the Abyss. I have owned all of these headphones below, and know them very well.
  
 LCD-4: Similar in terms of soundstage. LCD-4 is warmer, and the mids are better. Bass is bigger on the LCD-4, but the quality and speed of bass is better on the Utopia. Treble, the Utopia wins. Build quality is a tie. The LCD-4 is like a sumptuous cigar lounge, the Utopia as I said earlier, is like and F1 car. 
  
 HE1000: The Utopia wins in every area. It is just a better headphone. With that being said, I can see why someone would prefer the HE1000. Its soundstage is bigger, and its more of a kick back and chill headphone. Build quality? The HE1000 is like a crap DIY job, and the Utopia is more like fine Italian craftsman build furniture. 
  
 HD800S: Similar headphones, but the Utopia is more involving and dynamic. The soundstage and imaging on the HD800S is fantastic, imaging is almost as good as the Utopia. Surprisingly the Utopia did Treble better than the HD800S. Its just a bit cleaner and less shimmery. 
  
 Elear…..I didn’t get a chance to hear the Elear!!! I ran out of time. So no comparison here.
  
  
 So I’ll wrap it up here. The Utopia is a wonderful new addition the Flagship territory of headphonedom. It is very different than the Abyss. Smaller, both in size and sound. With that being said, in that smaller package, it packs a helluva punch. I can’t decide on either being better. I would love to add the Utopia to my collection someday, it is an all round superb headphone. It feels great, looks great, sounds great. Whats not to like? I’m glad I own the Abyss, and won’t be getting rid of it anytime soon. In fact, if it broke, I would buy another Abyss before buying the Utopia. I just really like the Abyss. 
  
 I guess thats that. Thanks for reading!


----------



## matthewhypolite

Nice read, interesting seeing your HE1000 comparison. The abyss is really something special so pretty much what id expect most abyss owners to say, but totally outclassing the HE1000 is surprising.


----------



## ufospls2

matthewhypolite said:


> Nice read, interesting seeing your HE1000 comparison. The abyss is really something special so pretty much what id expect most abyss owners to say, but totally outclassing the HE1000 is surprising.


 
 I'm not an HE1000 fan, so there is bias there. Its a good sounding headphone, I just liked the Utopia more. *Shrugs* Everyone is different, you might love the HE1000 but hate the Utopia.


----------



## a1uc

The HEK don't even come close to the Aybss , I love my Aybss headphones. I almost gave up headphones till the Aybss they are that good


----------



## ufospls2

Hey Guys,
  
 Just putting this out there to see what the Abyss community thinks. I'm thinking of moving on from my Auralic Taurus mk2 and Resonessence labs Concero HD. It works for the Abyss (sort of,) but isn't ideal and I'd like to move up a level. Not ten levels, I can't afford to do that sadly. So stuff like the Viva Egoista, Wells Audio Headtrip, Simaudio Moon 600i etc.. are not possible for amplification. Chord dave etc.. is not possible for the dac. I'm going to try to put together a set up thats in between the top top top of the line stuff, and what I have currently. 
  
 I'm very open to ideas, as this is just in the beginning stages, so please chime in if you have any thoughts, or gear to suggest. Please keep in mind I'm just a student and won't be going TOP of the line. Obviously power is a concern when it comes to the amp, I'd like to see it putting out a solid 8-ish watts sort of thing, enough to drive the AB-1266 well, with plenty of headroom. I tried the iFi I can pro, which has gobs of power for the AB-1266, but thought it was a little bit sterile. It was very clear though, and again, very powerful. I also tried the Schiit Mjolnir, but wasn't really a fan. It was kinda muddy sounding actually, though maybe that is changeable with tube rolling, I'm not sure. I think it would be a step down from my Taurus, so it is out. I think I want to go solid state, rather than a tube amp. I've tried the Simaudio Moon Neo 430HAD before, and thought it was pretty good so.....
  
 What I was thinking so far would be the 
  
 -Simaudio Moon Neo 430HA for the amp
 -Mytek Brooklyn for the DAC. 
  
 I could of course go for the 430 HAD and do the all in one solution, but I've heard the Brooklyn DAC, and thought it was great. The Simaudio 430HA seems to be a popular choice for all sorts of headphones, kind of like the big brother of the Taurus, but I'm open to other suggestions. Preferably not the Cavalli Liquid Gold, as a) its sold out and b) I'm not a huge fan of it. 
  
 I guess I'd like to look at $4000ish  for the amp and $2000-3000 for the DAC. Or the other way around if there is a DAC suggestion that is really good, and an amp that is a bit cheaper. That is in Canadian funds, so please keep that in mind if you are in the U.S.
  
 Thanks for reading, and thanks for the help.


----------



## discodelico

Hello,

I listened my Abyss with Moon Neo 430 HA & it's a great combo.

In my opinion, Allnic HPA500 is one step beyond (it sounds better than Moon 430).

I've got my Abyss paired with a Viva Egoista (and a GREAT Mamba audio cable). This is the best amplifier that I've listened but it's a little expensive.

All best


----------



## draytonklammer

Still nothing better than the Abyss that I have heard to date.
  
 Tried all of the flagships officially.
  
 The way I feel the music and enjoy the music through the Abyss is so much different than the others.
 It's analytical enough for me to get that fix, but the fun of it just puts a smile on my face every time.
  
 Officially the first time I haven't wanted any other headphone or audio equipment.


----------



## ufospls2

discodelico said:


> Hello,
> 
> I listened my Abyss with Moon Neo 430 HA & it's a great combo.
> 
> ...


 
 The Allnic HPA-5000 looks interesting, but its too expensive at $5500usd, and its a tube amp. I'm open to tube amps, but I _think _I'd rather go solid state. I'm not super experienced with tubes, so perhaps thats why.  $5500usd is just over $7000 canadian, so out of my budget sadly. I'd love to hear the Abyss with the Egoista some day, as I'm sure its wonderful, but again, out of my budget. 
  


draytonklammer said:


> Still nothing better than the Abyss that I have heard to date.
> 
> Tried all of the flagships officially.
> 
> ...


 
 Glad to hear it is still putting a smile on your face  I had that reaction last night listening to some of my favourite tunes. Sometimes it is just the right song, at the right time, with the right headphone and boom - nirvana.


----------



## Xecuter

Amp suggestions/opinions.
  
 I found the egoista was an overly coloured amp and would not recommend it, plenty of cheaper distorted tube amps out there.. I liked the wa234 and wa5 maxed the most with the Abyss so far.
 The moon was good too, but lacked some of the microdetail in exchange for a smoother overall signature for a SS. 
  
 However I will receive my Eddie current studio with tribute transformers and quad AVVT 2a3 mesh early September. I am hopeful that this set a new bar in separation and neutrality, without the etch and glare that amps like the gsx-mkii and rag have.


----------



## Kiats

xecuter said:


> Amp suggestions/opinions.
> 
> I found the egoista was an overly coloured amp and would not recommend it, plenty of cheaper distorted tube amps out there.. I liked the wa234 and wa5 maxed the most with the Abyss so far.
> The moon was good too, but lacked some of the microdetail in exchange for a smoother overall signature for a SS.
> ...




So, you found that the WA5 LE was good with the Abyss? Tx


----------



## stersa

Hi from Spain.

Yesterday i received my new pair of Abyss.
I m waiting for a new Moon 430 HAD too.
I hope ,that the combination would be awesome...

I explain my impresions.

Regards

Sisco


----------



## Xecuter

kiats said:


> So, you found that the WA5 LE was good with the Abyss? Tx




Yes, wa5 is almost as good as wa234. But the wa5 was maxed and the wa234 was stock with 300b tubes i believe.


----------



## Kiats

xecuter said:


> Yes, wa5 is almost as good as wa234. But the wa5 was maxed and the wa234 was stock with 300b tubes i believe.




Ah... I see. Thanks!


----------



## matthewhypolite

xecuter said:


> Yes, wa5 is almost as good as wa234. But the wa5 was maxed and the wa234 was stock with 300b tubes i believe.


 

 Im currently also exploring the WA5-Le, on the LAu/Abyss atm. Any experience with WA5 vs LAu? and what tubes do you recommend for the WA5 when paired with abyss.


----------



## ufospls2

Does anyone have experience with the Wells Audio Enigma paired with the Abyss?


----------



## knopi

ufospls2 said:


> .....
> 
> What I was thinking so far would be the
> 
> ...


 
  
 Almost no info here on headfi about Brooklyn  maybe only two photos from Canjam London . Unfortunately I will not help you much because I do not have headphones at this moment. But I am using Brooklyn as dac/pre with active speaker and sound is powerfull dynamic energetic so in my opinion Brooklyn have quite solid preamp and from videos on Mytek website hp ouput deliver maybe 6 watts to low impendence. Overall it is solid piece for the money though I did not compare it with anything so hard to tell how it scale..  
 Maybe you could try very popular dac here Yggdrasil seems to have a lot of fans. And as regards hp amp can not help, I think important will be find good synergy. 430HA seems to be very good.. 
 Would like to try AB-1266 myself one day if I will go back to headphones. 
 Good luck


----------



## Xecuter

matthewhypolite said:


> Im currently also exploring the WA5-Le, on the LAu/Abyss atm. Any experience with WA5 vs LAu? and what tubes do you recommend for the WA5 when paired with abyss.


 

 I compared Lau with wa5 a very long time ago. However I'm still confident that the wa5 was better with abyss then the LaU was. It boils down to a matter of synergy at this level.
 As far as power tubes: 300b tubes I've heard with wa5 with the Takatsuki 300B which was VERY good, I've also heard the  EML 300b which was a close second, I would avoid the Sophia princess as they are a bit too flabby.
  
 Avoid KR audio for now, their quality has dropped significantly in the last few years. 
 the wa5 was really dependent on tubes, I always warn people that they need to spend big on tubes with wa5..
  
 If you are after a SET amp look for the eddie current studio jnr, it will be announced soon. Considering Woo's BOM, the eddie current and DNA stuff is a bargain.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

On the subject of tubes, we've been working with KR Audio this year on updated versions of their tubes with improved materials. These will be exclusive to the US market. We will have these new High Performance KR Audio HP tubes at Rocky Mountain Audiofest in our Suite 6000 on the Woo amps.

http://www.TheEvolutionOfSound.com/kr-audio/


----------



## Xecuter

Wow! This is very exciting! I will be first in line to order a Quad!
 Thanks Joe! To see Dr. Krons lifetime of work crumble due to a drop in quality was heart breaking.I'm very glad you guys have stepped in!


----------



## acantor

Has anyone tried the Abyss with a speaker amp (I might have missed a previous post)?
Certainly works for other hard to drive headphones like HE6 and HEK, but perhaps too much for the Abyss.
Thanks!


----------



## Cortazar

i have heard my abyss with eddie current 445 and bryston and it was ok (i have owned both of them), but with a very good tube amplifier they become a wings! At the moment i hear them with ayon crossfire (30Watt) and i like it most of the time better then my stax 009 and seenheiser HE90. The dynamic, detail and scene, well they do not have a weak point. The rest of the system is vivaldi DAC, upsampler, clock and auralic aries.
 Pawel


----------



## Beolab

cortazar said:


> i have heard my abyss with eddie current 445 and bryston and it was ok (i have owned both of them), but with a very good tube amplifier they become a wings! At the moment i hear them with ayon crossfire (30Watt) and i like it most of the time better then my stax 009 and seenheiser HE90. The dynamic, detail and scene, well they do not have a weak point. The rest of the system is vivaldi DAC, upsampler, clock and auralic aries.
> Pawel




I have only tested out with the SimAudio Moon 600i speaker amp, if we speaking of High End speaker amps. 

The Abyss will only get benefit of the amps first 1-5 watts, it does not draw any more power than that, but it is great to have an amp that does deliver that kind of power with a great A current power reserve so you get the effortless feel and visceral effect. 

The Moon delivers pure Class A drive up to 5 watts actually and thats why it is a perfect combo for the Abyss, and very fluid and smooth with great timbre and transparency. 

The sound are like the Moon 430 Neo, but with much better dynamic reserve , control , smoothness and fluidity, it is on another level. 

I can highly recommend it if you want the Rolls Royce of amps that suits the Abyss the best. Have tested my Abyss with many Tube amps and SS amps and this is my and Yoga:s favourite.


----------



## Cortazar

I am not 100% sure but 30Watt of my ayon is for 8 Ohm, abyss has 46Ohm so it is about 5,5 Watt that they get from crossfire. I have also tried abyss with my air tight atm-300 and found it less dynamic then ayon. I do not have any experiences with ss amplifier though. Here is a picture of my system at the moment. It is strange for me but for the first time from a long time i do not have any need to change anything in it (well ok maybe a new power cord or so )


 greetings pawel


----------



## Beolab

cortazar said:


> I am not 100% sure but 30Watt of my ayon is for 8 Ohm, abyss has 46Ohm so it is about 5,5 Watt that they get from crossfire. I have also tried abyss with my air tight atm-300 and found it less dynamic then ayon. I do not have any experiences with ss amplifier though. Here is a picture of my system at the moment. It is strange for me but for the first time from a long time i do not have any need to change anything in it (well ok maybe a new power cord or so )
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That is a very nice setup you got there, and i have not heard your amp, but 5,5 watts with great A current power in reserve is always good to have with great "headroom" if the music is dynamic with fast transients, so my estimation is that you got a suffent amp for your headphones. 

Maybe you could try to experiment with diffrent headphone cables and source interconnects just to tune it for your taste. 

Is it something you are not fully satisfyed with in your sound today? 

Feel free to PM me. 

/Fredrik


----------



## Mystel

Managed to snag a used pair of these for a great price. All i can say is wow. I guess i never did audition them properly in the past.


----------



## Xecuter

mystel said:


> Managed to snag a used pair of these for a great price. All i can say is wow. I guess i never did audition them properly in the past.


 
  
 Most people never get close to abyss potential in an audio show or at a meet. Even 6 months after buying this thing wows me!
  
 As far as the power requirements of Abyss I have to disagree with some here, Abyss is not that hard to drive. It is however, tricky to get perfect synergy.


----------



## Kiats

Agreed. The Abyss requires patience and experimenting with the adjustables. But more than amply rewards. Truly a magnificent beast of a can!


----------



## Beolab

xecuter said:


> Most people never get close to abyss potential in an audio show or at a meet. Even 6 months after buying this thing wows me!
> 
> As far as the power requirements of Abyss I have to disagree with some here, Abyss is not that hard to drive. It is however, tricky to get perfect synergy.




It is not so hard to drive the Abyss at all, i can drive them with a Chord Mojo 0,768 watt on battery drive up to a pretty high level, it is no problem, but when you got more Amapare current drive capabillity in the amp on tap, the control and calmness are tremendous, and the the Abyss starts to breath on a diffrent level. 

Yes it is far from just buy a power hungry amp, it is much more hard to make the synergy to be perfect, that is correct. 
I have tried out about 10 amps untill i find the right amp that sutiated for my likings. 

Been trough and a few more: 
HeadTrip Sold
Woo WA5 Sold
Audio GD Sold
Moon 430 Neo Sold
AudioValve Solaris (only on loan)
Cavalli Crimson Sold
Pass Lab INT-30 (only on loan)
Auralic Taurus MkII ( Only on loan) 
Pathos Aurium ( 1.1 watt = couldn't drive the Abyss because of to low Ampere Current drive probably but, had a very fast transparent sound on low vol. ) 

And it was the speaker amp SimAudio Moon 600i that won by a great margin, even thug i just use 1-5 watts of 27 watts @ 46 ohm 
( 2x250 in 4 ohms) 

Its not about the spec figure just, it is the synergy.


----------



## ufospls2

beolab said:


> I have only tested out with the SimAudio Moon 600i speaker amp, if we speaking of High End speaker amps.
> 
> The Abyss will only get benefit of the amps first 1-5 watts, it does not draw any more power than that, but it is great to have an amp that does deliver that kind of power with a great A current power reserve so you get the effortless feel and visceral effect.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not sure why this is, perhaps you or Joe can explain/know why. If the Abyss only get benefit from the first 1-5 watts, how come they seem to LOVE extra power behind them/lots of headroom. I know my Taurus just isn't up to the job. In balanced mode there is a lot of clipping, and in SE mode, which is more powerful (4500mw @32 ohm) you can still tell it is struggling, and there is some distortion in the bass at high listening levels. When I tried it with the iFi ICAN pro, which does 14,000mw max output (If I remember correctly, not sure how much it does into 46 ohms) it was like listening to a different headphone. There was so much more authority, punch, and bass.
  
 After hearing what the Abyss can do with more power behind it, I find it disappointing to listen to at home with my set up. On my system, the LCD-4 is probably the more impressive headphone, but I know that the Abyss, with power behind it, is a better listening experience. I can't wait to improve my set up and get an amplifier with more power that is better suited for the Abyss, as I know I haven't tapped into its potential fully yet. I used to think the Taurus was doing it justice, but it just isn't powerful enough for my needs. Live and learn, I've learned my lesson. I apologise to anyone in this thread that I've said you don't need gobs of power, and that you can use the Abyss with lesser amps. Well, you can definitely use it with lesser amps, and it is still a world class sounding headphone, its just that with that extra grunt and headroom behind it, it is more than world class, it is the best I have heard. 
  
 Do you find now, after selling your HeadTrip, that you prefer the Moon 600i? I liked your analogy that the HeadTrip is like a V8 supercharged engine with lots of grunt, while the 600i is like a Rolls Royce, very fluid, smooth and transparent. 


mystel said:


> Managed to snag a used pair of these for a great price. All i can say is wow. I guess i never did audition them properly in the past.


 
 Another member of the club! Congrats! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


xecuter said:


> Most people never get close to abyss potential in an audio show or at a meet. Even 6 months after buying this thing wows me!
> 
> As far as the power requirements of Abyss I have to disagree with some here, Abyss is not that hard to drive. It is however, tricky to get perfect synergy.


 
 I used to feel that way, and I agree that synergy is important. However I disagree that the Abyss isn't that hard to drive. I used to think that it was not that hard to drive, but as I said above, after hearing it with power behind it, it was like a whole new headphone. The bass especially was just so mind blowing compared to how I had been hearing it at home. 
  
 I use the Abyss sometimes straight out of my Mojo, and LH Labs GO2A, and it works well, just like it works well out of my Taurus, but I still can't get over how much better it sounded with more power behind it. The iFi ICAN Pro is an ok sounding amp, a bit sterile perhaps? I can only imagine what the Abyss sounds like out of something like the 600i, HeadTrip, Egoista etc..
  
 I'm waiting for Can Jam at RMAF to see what products get unvailed, and also waiting for the Wells Audio Milo to see what the impressions are, but I can't wait to upgrade my set up to components more fitting for the Abyss. I'm fortunate enough to have TOTL headphones, and whilst I may not be able to afford TOTL source gear like some in this thread (no hate or jealousy here, if you can afford it, the Abyss deserve it,) I hope I can do a bit more justice to my headphones than I am currently. The Chord Hugo TT, or Mytek Brooklyn DAC, and Wells Audio Enigma are looking promising currently, but that may change as time goes on and I do more research. Sorry, I'm bored and rambling...
  
 As with everything, your milage may vary, and you might find less power to be enough for the Abyss. Either way, I'm glad to hear it still wows you after 6 months


----------



## Beolab

ufospls2 said:


> I'm not sure why this is, perhaps you or Joe can explain/know why. If the Abyss only get benefit from the first 1-5 watts, how come they seem to LOVE extra power behind them/lots of headroom. I know my Taurus just isn't up to the job. In balanced mode there is a lot of clipping, and in SE mode, which is more powerful (4500mw @32 ohm) you can still tell it is struggling, and there is some distortion in the bass at high listening levels. When I tried it with the iFi ICAN pro, which does 14,000mw max output (If I remember correctly, not sure how much it does into 46 ohms) it was like listening to a different headphone. There was so much more authority, punch, and bass.
> 
> After hearing what the Abyss can do with more power behind it, I find it disappointing to listen to at home with my set up. On my system, the LCD-4 is probably the more impressive headphone, but I know that the Abyss, with power behind it, is a better listening experience. I can't wait to improve my set up and get an amplifier with more power that is better suited for the Abyss, as I know I haven't tapped into its potential fully yet. I used to think the Taurus was doing it justice, but it just isn't powerful enough for my needs. Live and learn, I've learned my lesson. I apologise to anyone in this thread that I've said you don't need gobs of power, and that you can use the Abyss with lesser amps. Well, you can definitely use it with lesser amps, and it is still a world class sounding headphone, its just that with that extra grunt and headroom behind it, it is more than world class, it is the best I have heard.
> 
> ...











The question why for example the Auralic Taurus don't keep up with the Abyss is down to the amp design and dampening factor and the output load stability.
 It got about 15 volts or 3.2 watts @ 46 Ohms load, so when your music are playing on 85 db listening level it demands 1 watts of power measured & 60Hz, but if the music maybe got a bass tune that demands 3,3 watts to reproduce 85 db @ 30Hz then the Taurus are going to hit the seeling because it cant deliver what it is demanded to, and it distort and start clipping straight away. 
So you are playing on the red line all the time when you got mid to high listening levels. 
Your Abyss does not draw 46 Ohms resistance consistently, it is just an average measuring figure, so it can fall or increase depending on the music and vol. level. 

A amp like the HeadTrip , Egoista , Woo 234 or Moon 600i for example got so much power and current drive ( Tourqe ) so it does not even break the slightest svet on any vol. level or heavy load from the connected headphones, with demanding dynamic music at all because of the huge ovely built power/Ampere reserve. 

Then the high end amps have almost no compromises at all somethings, and got often a total diffrent amp design layout than the cheaper amps where things have been compromised.

But, this says nothing on how they are going to sound, or how transparaent they are going to be, just good to know you will not ever gas out the amp, and your headphones or speakers are going to live a longer healthier and safer life because the absence of clipping and distortion like from an unstable amp any more. 

So yes, you need to experience this by your self.


----------



## Xecuter

The reason he is getting clipping is not due to the amp. A Taurus is like 4.5 watts into 32 ohms, the clipping noted here is due to some other reason.
 I've heard the Taurus with the Abyss and it is actually a really decent pairing. 
 I will write more on this, but there is a serious misunderstanding of what kind of headroom is required here... Also a misconception that more is always better?
 Even with the he-6, people get so fixated on megawatt amps more than the music...
  
 My new amp will probably get .5 of a watt into the abyss. It does have a speaker out which will put put 6 watts into 8 ohms,
 I have no concerns with it's ability to drive the abyss.


----------



## ufospls2

xecuter said:


> The reason he is getting clipping is not due to the amp. A Taurus is like 4.5 watts into 32 ohms, the clipping noted here is due to some other reason.
> I've heard the Taurus with the Abyss and it is actually a really decent pairing.
> I will write more on this, but there is a serious misunderstanding of what kind of headroom is required here... Also a misconception that more is always better?
> Even with the he-6, people get so fixated on megawatt amps more than the music...
> ...


 
 I've tried three computers,4 dacs, all with the Taurus, and then 5 different amps in the same chains to check, and the Taurus was the problem. I recorded the distortion on my iphone and sent it to Joe of JPS labs/Abyss Headphones, and he reckoned it was a lack of power from the Taurus. This is in Balanced mode, which puts out 1200mw into 32 ohm. In single ended mode, which as you said puts 4500mw into 32 ohm I don't get the clipping, just some distortion in the bass (heavy bass, minimal techno stuff) at high listening levels. With a more powerful amp in play I don't get any clipping/distortion at any listening level so its not a problem with the headphones. My Taurus works very well with my other headphones, so there isn't something wrong with the amp, its just a lack of power from it for the Abyss. Unless you can think of something else that it might be, but I've tried everything I can think of. 
  
 More definitely isn't always better, and I agree the need for power gets overstated a lot. I can only speak from my personal experience, and that is that the Abyss seems to benefit from a powerful amp.


----------



## Xecuter

Does your taurus work fine with other headphones?


----------



## ufospls2

ufospls2 said:


> I've tried three computers,4 dacs, all with the Taurus, and then 5 different amps in the same chains to check, and the Taurus was the problem. I recorded the distortion on my iphone and sent it to Joe of JPS labs/Abyss Headphones, and he reckoned it was a lack of power from the Taurus. This is in Balanced mode, which puts out 1200mw into 32 ohm. In single ended mode, which as you said puts 4500mw into 32 ohm I don't get the clipping, just some distortion in the bass (heavy bass, minimal techno stuff) at high listening levels. With a more powerful amp in play I don't get any clipping/distortion at any listening level so its not a problem with the headphones.* My Taurus works very well with my other headphones*, so there isn't something wrong with the amp, its just a lack of power from it for the Abyss. Unless you can think of something else that it might be, but I've tried everything I can think of.
> 
> More definitely isn't always better, and I agree the need for power gets overstated a lot. I can only speak from my personal experience, and that is that the Abyss seems to benefit from a powerful amp.


----------



## Xecuter

Sorry, somehow missed that bit.
  
 Yeh really weird. I do not believe that can be due to lack of grunt. Sorry for your issue :/
  
 Edit: Have you ever had someone else with a different abyss try it?


----------



## Beolab

xecuter said:


> The reason he is getting clipping is not due to the amp. A Taurus is like 4.5 watts into 32 ohms, the clipping noted here is due to some other reason.
> I've heard the Taurus with the Abyss and it is actually a really decent pairing.
> I will write more on this, but there is a serious misunderstanding of what kind of headroom is required here... Also a misconception that more is always better?
> Even with the he-6, people get so fixated on megawatt amps more than the music...
> ...




What i wrote is general speaking on how a amp working together with a speaker, but maybe you guys believe in some holy grail theory, but i believe in mathematics and facts. 

Then yes it could be something wrong with the Taurus also, but from the description of Paul i highly doubt it, because it just clips when he play more demanding music and on mid to high level.


----------



## Xecuter

Based on mathematics and facts?
  
  


beolab said:


> It got about 15 volts or 3.2 watts @ 46 Ohms load, so when your music are playing on 85 db listening level it demands 1 watts of power measured & 60Hz, but if the music maybe got a bass tune that demands 3,3 watts to reproduce 85 db @ 30Hz then the Taurus are going to hit the seeling because it cant deliver what it is demanded to, and it distort and start clipping straight away.
> So you are playing on the red line all the time when you got mid to high listening levels.
> Your Abyss does not draw 46 Ohms resistance consistently, it is just an average measuring figure, so it can fall or increase depending on the music and vol. level.


 
 3w?? Unfortunately this shows you have no real concept of any of this. I literally can't be bothered explaining how wrong you are.
 I like you Beolab, your reviews have been interesting.
  
 But this insanity has got to stop. The raving about these amps: Egoista and headtrip, wa234 needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
 The Egoista is overly coloured and no where near a resolving or detailed amp, the head-trip is seriously overpriced and filled with cheap components and based on an unstable topology not to mention very average transformer. The wa234 is total overkill. Moon have a tendency to use nice parts implemented poorly but I have not heard the 600i to fairly comment..
 These amps may sound decent to you, but you guys needs to think about what you are paying for! (usually nice case work!)
  
 Enjoy what you want lads. I love the Abyss like most here. Just tread carefully because all these megawatt amps aren't better than well made cheaper, less powerful alternatives. Every company is out to sell something.
  
 My old test o2 doesn't clip with Abyss. o2>Taurus?
 The chord dave also drives the Abyss remarkable well, even thought it is less powerful than a magni...
 Xec


----------



## Beolab

I rest my case to argue on a amateur level sadly. If you guys are happy with your gear and believes , then im happy for you. 

Please carrie on


----------



## ufospls2

xecuter said:


> Based on mathematics and facts?
> 
> 
> 3w?? Unfortunately this shows you have no real concept of any of this. I literally can't be bothered explaining how wrong you are.
> ...


 
 whoa guys I didn't mean to start a fight or cause tension. 
  
  
 The above is why I am finding that the search for a new amp is so hard. Either people love an amp, or its a piece of crap thats poorly made with cheap components. Its hard to figure out what the truth actually is about amps. I suppose the only way to know is to listen for myself when I get a chance. I thought the Taurus would be more than enough for the Abyss, but I can only go with my personal experience and that is that in balanced especially it just doesn't have enough power for the volume (and music type) I *sometimes* listen at. At lower volumes its superb. With my other headphones it is superb at all volumes, including the LCD-4 which also needs a bit more power than most headphones. I haven't heard another pair of Abyss with my Taurus, which would be the last variable I could try, but I'm the only Abyss owner I know of in my area. 
  
 Xecuter, what amp would you recommend for the Abyss out of curiosity?


----------



## Beolab

This is the last time i will try to help anyone in this thread. I only work with this professionally every day, and i described in short why a amp start clipping in general. 

And to Paul, take your Abyss to a HiFi store and try them out with a different amp is my recommendation.


----------



## ufospls2

beolab said:


> This is the last time i will try to help anyone in this thread. I only work with this professionally every day, and i described in short why a amp start clipping in general.
> 
> And to Paul, take your Abyss to a HiFi store and try them out with a different amp is my recommendation.


 
 Thanks Fredrik  The Canadian distributor for Wells Audio said they may be able to send a Wells Audio headphone amp into my city so I can try it out (not sure which amp though.) I'll let you know how it goes. Looking forward to hearing it


----------



## bigfatpaulie

beolab said:


> This is the last time i will try to help anyone in this thread. I only work with this professionally every day, and i described in short why a amp start clipping in general.
> 
> And to Paul, take your Abyss to a HiFi store and try them out with a different amp is my recommendation.


 
  
  
 Please don't: there are many of us that appreciate and value your experience and advice.


----------



## Xecuter

beolab said:


> This is the last time i will try to help anyone in this thread. I only work with this professionally every day, and i described in short why a amp start clipping in general.
> 
> And to Paul, take your Abyss to a HiFi store and try them out with a different amp is my recommendation.


 
  
 Beolab, as I said, I also appreciate your advice/impression and take interest in your words.
  
 As far as amp recommendations go Paul, I enjoyed the wa5 and wa234 (marginally better). I have managed to get a decent sound out of my ragnarok but the amp has major issues I can't get past. I couldn't find a SS amp that could compete with wa5 or wa234.
  
 So my next experiment is to basically have the best components/topography and tubes money can buy. The tribute transformers, the AVVT tubes have cost me an absolute fortune but this is legendary stuff by a world class amp designer. I really just wanted the most resolving and detailed amp I could have built and I will try find a source that keeps it musical.
  
 Stuff like soundstage/separation are impossible to measure. If this doesn't beat the wa234 in a side by side comparison I guess I will sell all my stuff and just get a wa234.
  
 Xec


----------



## bigfatpaulie

xecuter said:


> . If this doesn't beat the wa234 in a side by side comparison I guess I will sell all my stuff and just get a wa234.
> 
> Xec


 
  
 You prefer the WA234 to the Studio?


----------



## a1uc

xecuter said:


> Beolab, as I said, I also appreciate your advice/impression and take interest in your words.
> 
> As far as amp recommendations go Paul, I enjoyed the wa5 and wa234 (marginally better). I have managed to get a decent sound out of my ragnarok but the amp has major issues I can't get past. I couldn't find a SS amp that could compete with wa5 or wa234.
> 
> ...


 nevermind lol


----------



## ufospls2

xecuter said:


> Beolab, as I said, I also appreciate your advice/impression and take interest in your words.
> 
> As far as amp recommendations go Paul, I enjoyed the wa5 and wa234 (marginally better). I have managed to get a decent sound out of my ragnarok but the amp has major issues I can't get past. I couldn't find a SS amp that could compete with wa5 or wa234.
> 
> ...


 
 The only Woo I have real experience with is the WA8 sadly. I've read varying opinions on the WA5/WA5-LE, from its too warm and syrupy to its the best thing since sliced bread(I suppose this varies depending on the tubes being used.) Everyone seems to like the WA234 but its a solid $16,000. Whilst I would love to drop that kind of money on an amp, its just out of my budget 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'll try to give the WA5 a shot if I can, but I'm definitely leaning towards SS amps, mostly due to the convenience/my lack of knowledge of tubes. I'm definitely open to a tube amp though if it really sounds good to my ears. I suppose the chase is half the fun of all this. 
  
 Good luck with the experiment, I hope your tube purchases etc. pay off


----------



## Xecuter

Yeh I tried the moon 430. I wasn't overly impressed.
 My studio hasn't arrived yet. It is still being built. Should arrive in a few weeks or so. 
 The wa5 requires some good tubes to sound half decent, the stock tubes were terrible.


----------



## Thenewguy007

xecuter said:


> Yeh I tried the moon 430. I wasn't overly impressed.
> My studio hasn't arrived yet. It is still being built. Should arrive in a few weeks or so.
> The wa5 requires some good tubes to sound half decent, the stock tubes were terrible.




How did the Moon compare to the stock WA5?
Any one thing either did better than the other noticeably?


----------



## Xecuter

The stock wa5 isn't worth talking about. The moon would be leaps and bounds better. I find the moon had a bit of the agd dullness to it but was a pretty good pairing with abyss.

However compared to a maxed wa5, the wa5 is a clear step above the moon 430ha. The maxed wa5 was close to wa234, like really close.

I am not the biggest woo audio fan but the pairing of abyss with wa5 and wa234 is definitely special.


----------



## jelt2359

xecuter said:


> The stock wa5 isn't worth talking about. The moon would be leaps and bounds better. I find the moon had a bit of the agd dullness to it but was a pretty good pairing with abyss.
> 
> However compared to a maxed wa5, the wa5 is a clear step above the moon 430ha. The maxed wa5 was close to wa234, like really close.
> 
> I am not the biggest woo audio fan but the pairing of abyss with wa5 and wa234 is definitely special.


 
 By maxxed do you mean caps or tubes or cables/cords or all of the above?


----------



## Xecuter

Yeh basically everything. I'm not into cable voodoo just yet.


----------



## Xecuter

You have wa5 and studio!! 
Damn son

Edit: and teton!!!


----------



## a1uc

I have both the 430HA and WA5 LE V2 and the WA5 LE V2 is a clear winner


----------



## a1uc

If there is a hp amp out there that bests the WA234 or maxed out WA5 I'd love to try it


----------



## Xecuter

Studio or stellaris maybe? We need cedible reviews.


----------



## jelt2359

Why limit yourself? Buy an adaptor and hook up that abyss to your speaker amps


----------



## a1uc

I might be selling my WA5 so I'm going to need to replace it


----------



## Xecuter

Well most speakers amps aren't really optimised for use with headphones. However I do agree that there are some great pairing with he-6 and abyss with speaker amps.
 I will drop some serious money on speakers and speaker amps when I have a proper space soon - 50k usd budget.
  
 For now I will chase the perfect desktop set up! I'll be stoked if I can beat my current rig which has kept me smiling for the past few months!
 I will continue to recommend modding the abyss, or at the very least trying it.


----------



## The Piper

The new Milo will be out within the next 2-3 weeks and I believe that Tricell Enterprises has a couple of interested dealers in western Canada who want to try it out. If you can hang on for a few weeks then you should have an opportunity to give it a try. It puts out roughly 18 watts into 32 ohms and will retail in the states for $1699.00. It sounds like the Enigma for less than half the price and even at this low price does not give up the power that is absolutely necessary to get full performance and enjoyment from the Abyss.-Jeff Wells


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The AB-1266 won an Award !

​


----------



## stvc

joe skubinski said:


> The AB-1266 won an Award ! ​


 

 Congratulation!


----------



## Kiats

joe skubinski said:


> The AB-1266 won an Award !
> 
> ​




Well deserved, Joe! Congrats!


----------



## mulder01

the piper said:


> The new Milo will be out within the next 2-3 weeks and I believe that Tricell Enterprises has a couple of interested dealers in western Canada who want to try it out. If you can hang on for a few weeks then you should have an opportunity to give it a try. It puts out roughly 18 watts into 32 ohms and will retail in the states for $1699.00. It sounds like the Enigma for less than half the price and even at this low price does not give up the power that is absolutely necessary to get full performance and enjoyment from the Abyss.-Jeff Wells


 
  
 Would not have expected any manufacturer to say that one of their cheaper amps is just as good as one of their own amps at more than double the cost, but ok, awesome!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

joe skubinski said:


> The AB-1266 won an Award ! ​


 
  
 Awesomeness!!!


----------



## The Piper

The same core musicality still with more than enough power. The Milo only lacks the polarity flip feature, some headroom possibly and the upgrade path that the Enigma allows to a Headtrip or eventually to the Headtrip Reference when it becomes available.


----------



## ufospls2

Hi all,
  
 I've figured out what route I'm going to go for a new amp, which means I've started doing more research on DACS. I figured some of you here have a lot more experience than me. Here are some of the names I've come up with so far. 
  
 -Mytek Brooklyn DAC
 -Chord Hugo TT
 -Chord 2Qute
 -Eastern Electric DAC Supreme edition
 -Linemann Music Book 10
 -Aqua La Voce
 -Luxman DA200
  
 Do you guys have any suggestions of DACS that are less heard of around here (not the Schiit dacs and whatnot) I'd like to keep the price below $5000 canadian, so no DAVE, Lampizator, TOTALDAC, Nagra HD DAC etc..I know my price limit doesn't allow for a lot of things, but I hope its not too limiting, and I can get something decent. I'll be buying my amp first, so I have tons of time to research and think about my DAC choice, but any help would be appreciated from the knowledgable folks around here. Thanks guys!


----------



## Torq

ufospls2 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've figured out what route I'm going to go for a new amp, which means I've started doing more research on DACS. I figured some of you here have a lot more experience than me. Here are some of the names I've come up with so far.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a bunch in my "Life after Yggdrasil?" thread (list and links in the first post there), along with audition results for those that I've managed to get to listen to properly so far.  Some will be off limits for your requirements, but there's a good few in there that should match.
  
 And, of course, you should add Yggdrasil to your list.


----------



## ufospls2

torq said:


> I have a bunch in my "Life after Yggdrasil?" thread (list and links in the first post there), along with audition results for those that I've managed to get to listen to properly so far.  Some will be off limits for your requirements, but there's a good few in there that should match.
> 
> And, of course, you should add Yggdrasil to your list.


 
 Thanks for the link Torq! I will definitely read that whole thread


----------



## a1uc

ufospls2 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've figured out what route I'm going to go for a new amp, which means I've started doing more research on DACS. I figured some of you here have a lot more experience than me. Here are some of the names I've come up with so far.
> 
> ...


 is the Auralic Vega to cheap ? Awesome DAC for the price


----------



## ufospls2

a1uc said:


> is the Auralic Vega to cheap ? Awesome DAC for the price


 
 I actually own the Auralic Taurus, and have heard the Vega, but only once a few years ago. Its definitely a consideration, but it seemed to be a bright dac, which I'm not sure if I want. Granted, my audition was so long ago now that perhaps I heard it wrong, or am remembering it wrong. Nothing is too cheap! I'm trying to find the "best" sound for my money. "Best" is so subjective though, and I don't have enough experience with enough DACS to truly know what I want, which is why I've turned to the community for help


----------



## a1uc

I didn't think it was bright , I went from the Vega to the Totaldac d1 dual then monos now twelve , yes twelve is awesome but if I started over I'd get the Vega back it was the best DAC for the money . Best of luck


----------



## greekgod

ufospls2 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've figured out what route I'm going to go for a new amp, which means I've started doing more research on DACS. I figured some of you here have a lot more experience than me. Here are some of the names I've come up with so far.
> 
> ...


 
 I listened to a lot of dacs at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest 2015 and I highly recommend the Resonessence Labs Invicta. It is priced at $4995US but you could probably negotiate a lower price. I was also really impressed by the Bel Canto DAC 3.7 at $4495US.


----------



## Hansotek

ufospls2 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've figured out what route I'm going to go for a new amp, which means I've started doing more research on DACS. I figured some of you here have a lot more experience than me. Here are some of the names I've come up with so far.
> 
> ...




The Lampizador Level 4 starts at $4,195. I'm a big fan of that DAC. Wells Audio always has one on hand at Audio shows, it is just lovely, IMHO. 

If you have a ton of DSDs, the Questyle CAS192D Golden is wonderfully clean, spacious and articulate in true DSD mode. For a more 16/44.1 heavy playlist, I'd likely lean in a different direction, probably something R2R like the Lampizador or the Resolution Cantata, if you can get a deal on one. I would consider the Mytek Brooklyn though, if you are banking on the MQA format... It does do quite well overall for a D/S DAC.


----------



## Xecuter

@ufospls2 , I would consider a Metrum pavane. A few people who can't use the ygg are using it and some are saying it is better in some regards. I would also consider an AGD m7, but I would only consider it if you have concerns your amp is lean/bright sounding as it is a warmer sounding DAC.
 You could also do what I've done and get an sfd-1 mkii or sfd-2. I've heard a lot of 20k+ dacs and I don't think i'm missing out on much 
  
 These are products that much more popular outside of this forum.
 Synergy is the most important factor and you need to build around the Abyss.


----------



## ufospls2

xecuter said:


> @ufospls2 , I would consider a Metrum pavane. A few people who can't use the ygg are using it and some are saying it is better in some regards. I would also consider an AGD m7, but I would only consider it if you have concerns your amp is lean/bright sounding as it is a warmer sounding DAC.
> You could also do what I've done and get an sfd-1 mkii or sfd-2. I've heard a lot of 20k+ dacs and I don't think i'm missing out on much
> 
> These are products that much more popular outside of this forum.
> Synergy is the most important factor and you need to build around the Abyss.


 
 Out of all the reading I've done today, the Metrum Pavane is definitely one of the ones I would consider. Funnily enough, the only Canadian dealer that carries Metrum is only a 4-5 hour drive away. I think the Pavane might be too much in Canadian dollars budget wise, I'm not sure yet. If it is too much I will take a look at the Metrum Menuet. There are a few other options I've been reading about that look really interesting as well. Thanks for the recommendations


----------



## Kiats

ufospls2 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've figured out what route I'm going to go for a new amp, which means I've started doing more research on DACS. I figured some of you here have a lot more experience than me. Here are some of the names I've come up with so far.
> 
> ...




Since you are in Canada, have you considered the Bryston DAC? It's in its third iteration and now uses the AKM chip. I believe Computer Audiophile just did a review of the Bryston BDA-3.


----------



## Torq

kiats said:


> Since you are in Canada, have you considered the Bryston DAC? It's in its third iteration and now uses the AKM chip. I believe Computer Audiophile just did a review of the Bryston BDA-3.


 

 You can do *way* better for the price of the Bryston, at least in my opinion.
  
 Hell, you can do way better for less than 1/10th the price ... unless you have some perverse need/love of HDMI inputs.


----------



## m17xr2b

Is the GSX-MK2 enough to get the best out of the Abyss?


----------



## mulder01

m17xr2b said:


> Is the GSX-MK2 enough to get the best out of the Abyss?


 
  
 I think it depends who you ask.  At this level, a lot of it comes down to taste doesn't it?


----------



## Toolman

Anyone here drives an Abyss directly from a DAVE? your impressions please...


----------



## Beolab

toolman said:


> Anyone here drives an Abyss directly from a DAVE? your impressions please...




Yes i do, and it can drive the Abyss to very high levels without any effort from DAVE, because it got a great current A drive and the lovest resistance in the output, and It got twice the power of a TT for example. 

The SQ is as transparent as it could be from any DAC i have heard. The timing , placing , dynamic impact , resolution and nyances are immense. The bass is as perfect and accurate as it could be. 

PM me for more info: 

Worlds best ( most transparent) 
DAC / Pre / Headphone amp. 

Please read the DAVE impressions thread for more in depth info of the SQ. 

I got two DAVEś so i got one up for sale if someone is interested. 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/814565/brand-new-black-chord-dave-latest-batch-3


----------



## Xecuter

m17xr2b said:


> Is the GSX-MK2 enough to get the best out of the Abyss?


 

 Well no. Not the best. The gsx-mk ii is thin and etched sounding. If you want a real KG amp do some research on the dynalo/dynamid etc..
 The original design by KG was altered by Justin to make the gsx-mkii and well the end result is not great. However I have never seen any of our abyss owners build a KG dynamic amplifier for the Abyss.
  
 As mulder kindly pointed out the best amp comes down to preference.


----------



## Xecuter

@bigfatpaulie, you had a dynahi with abyss didn't you? Not sure if I'm buying into the KG hype. What are your thoughts?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

xecuter said:


> @bigfatpaulie, you had a dynahi with abyss didn't you? Not sure if I'm buying into the KG hype. What are your thoughts?


 
  
 Yes: I had a SuSy Dynahi.
  

  
  
  
 That was a really, really exceptional amp.  Honestly, in some way better than my Pass Int-30a which I also had at the time.  To me, you can't compare the GSX MK2 and this amp...  It's like contrasting a Bottlehead Crack and DNA Stratus.  Both are great amps but one is unequivocally superior (to me).  It's a faster sounding, harder hitting, more detailed, better texted amp with a wider and deeper sound stage.
  
 I'm not saying the GSX is bad - and others may prefer it. The GSX, after all, is sill a top flight amp.  I just feel that this PARTICULAR Dyanhi was much better than the GSX.  Not all are Dynahi's created the same as builders and part quality varies a great deal.


----------



## Hi-Phi

ufospls2 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've figured out what route I'm going to go for a new amp, which means I've started doing more research on DACS. I figured some of you here have a lot more experience than me. Here are some of the names I've come up with so far.
> 
> ...


 
 You really need to check out the Holo Audio Spring Level 3 DAC. It is the only DAC in the world that can do DSD native on an r2r ladder platform. It can do up to PCM & DSD 512 native and it sounds tremendous. 
  
 I got this DAC (level 3 version) a month ago and it has blown me away... I just put the AH platinum fuse in it and its even better still -- check my review on it. I am coming from a Mytek stereo 192 DAC and that thing is not even in the same league. 
  
 Oh by the way it costs like $2250 USD


----------



## Beolab

hi-phi said:


> You really need to check out the Holo Audio Spring Level 3 DAC. It is the only DAC in the world that can do DSD native on an r2r ladder platform. It can do up to PCM & DSD 512 native and it sounds tremendous. There is a 6moons review comparing it to the Chord DAVE and it is rated higher.
> 
> I got this DAC (level 3 version) a month ago and it has blown me away... I just put the AH platinum fuse in it and its even better still -- check my review on it. I am coming from a Mytek stereo 192 DAC and that thing is not even in the same league.
> 
> Oh by the way it costs like $2250 USD




This review Holo vs DAVE does not exist on 6moon. 

Do you got a link to the 6moon review, because i cant find any review of Holo Audio at all in the 6Moon archive at all, and neither have they tested Chord DAVE yet from what i can see?


----------



## ufospls2

hi-phi said:


> You really need to check out the Holo Audio Spring Level 3 DAC. It is the only DAC in the world that can do DSD native on an r2r ladder platform. It can do up to PCM & DSD 512 native and it sounds tremendous. There is a 6moons review comparing it to the Chord DAVE and it is rated higher.
> 
> I got this DAC (level 3 version) a month ago and it has blown me away... I just put the AH platinum fuse in it and its even better still -- check my review on it. I am coming from a Mytek stereo 192 DAC and that thing is not even in the same league.
> 
> Oh by the way it costs like $2250 USD


 
 Really interesting looking piece of gear. Thanks for the tip, I had never heard of it before. Couldn't find the 6moons review of it.


----------



## Hi-Phi

.


----------



## Beolab

hi-phi said:


> Yeah it was my mistake. It was actually a guy who posted about it on computeraudiophile.com who is writing the review right now. He gave initial impressions about the Spring but the full review is soon to come.
> 
> Here is a link to that thread: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/holo-audio-spring-digital-analogue-converter-r2r-dsd512-29319/




That is a huge difference if a guy on computer audiophile wish to rate his Holo higher than the DAVE.  

Please edit your post


----------



## Hi-Phi

beolab said:


> That is a huge difference if a guy on computer audiophile wish to rate his Holo higher than the DAVE.
> 
> Please edit your post


 
 I will certainly fix the post -- my apologies.
  
 Indeed, I can understand how it would be a pain to see a much less expensive DAC compete with that $13,000 thing.
  
 You sort of have to love it at that price, no?


----------



## Beolab

No worries, is often like this that the undertakers try to take over the all mighty 

Its like in the car forums where the Ford guys say that their Focus ST is a better sports car than a Porsche 991 Carrera 4s , this happen in every hobby 

Have great listening evening


----------



## Beolab

hi-phi said:


> I will certainly fix the post -- my apologies.
> 
> 
> Indeed, I can understand how it would be a pain to see a much less expensive DAC compete with that $13,000 thing.
> ...




Now i have read through the Holo thread on the CA forum, and cant find any comparison vs Chord DAVE, so this was just trolling.


----------



## m17xr2b

mulder01 said:


> I think it depends who you ask.  At this level, a lot of it comes down to taste doesn't it?


 
 I completely agree with you. I asked as I like to compare my opinion with others. I hope next week to get a good listen to these on my own equipment. The GSX-MK2 should have enough power do drive them but we will see as how I feel about the pairing. The Stratus is where my hopes lie to get a musical and powerful sound. My hope is these will be something between the HD800 and HEK but better.
 I first listened to the Abyss at a meet I think three years ago. On a Cavalli setup I first listened to the LCD3 and then to the Abyss. The LCD3 impressed me but I remember the Abyss having a much bigger sound stage and better controlled bass.


----------



## arnaud

hi-phi said:


> You sort of have to love it at that price, no?



Or hate it if you happen to be selling said 13kUSD gear with healthy margin . These direct to consumer products are the real deal, especially when they contain serious innovation too (am very curious about the dac you mentionned).
Cheers,
Arnaud


----------



## m17xr2b

I'm curious about what headroom do you need to have with the Abyss with regards to amplification? I have read posts where the amplifier did not had enough power for big dynamic swings. If we consider the volume as linear if I would listen at 25% percent is the rest 75% enough to drive the abyss properly? What about at 50% volume?


----------



## Hansotek

m17xr2b said:


> I'm curious about what headroom do you need to have with the Abyss with regards to amplification? I have read posts where the amplifier did not had enough power for big dynamic swings. If we consider the volume as linear if I would listen at 25% percent is the rest 75% enough to drive the abyss properly? What about at 50% volume?




It's a funny question you pose, as different volume knobs have different attenuation characteristics. In terms of decibels (being logarithmic in nature), I'd probably want to have 30-40DB above my listening volume reserved for the most dynamic transients, so your RMS listening volume should use maybe 6 or 7% of the amps total power. Where that is on the volume dial depends on the amp.


----------



## mulder01

It is a bit of an unusual question - you won't get a consensus on that one.  Keeping in mind you have a dual monoblock headphone amp...
  
 I wouldn't let concern about not having the 'correct' amp for the Abyss stop you from buying one.  If you already own the gsx and are happy with it's sound and know it suits your taste, then it might be the right amp for you subjectively, even if others don't love it for their own subjective reasons.  
  
 IMO an Abyss running off even an O2 dac/amp combo is better than no Abyss at all!


----------



## Elawarai

So great, dreaming about this headphone


----------



## ufospls2

Well, I've had some trouble with my finances and bills popping up unexpectedly, such is life I suppose. Though I was shooting for buying an Enigma or HeadTrip from Wells Audio, that is no longer a possibility in the near future. I decided that whilst a HeadTrip was the ideal, its little brother, "Milo", might be a good substitute for the time being. I am planning on using the Milo and upgrading to an Enigma or HeadTrip eventually. I am certainly open to the Milo being better than expected and just keeping it as my main amp!
  
 At 18 watts into 32ohms, it certainly shouldn't be struggling to power the Abyss. I will be using my Chord Mojo as my system DAC for the time being, which should work out alright. Although I was hoping to put together an "end game" set up, I really hope this is a good fill in until money gets a bit easier nearer next summer. "End Games Little Brother." Milo instead of HeadTrip, Mojo instead of Dave/Pavane etc..
  
 Heres a thread I created for the Milo
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/820424/wells-audio-milo-impressions-and-discussion-thread
  
 I thought it might interest some Abyss owners here, due to the reported great synergy between the AB-1266 and the higher up Wells Audio amps. If the Milo really does offer most of the performance of the Enigma, at $1699USD, I think we could be looking at a popular little amp.


----------



## Hansotek

ufospls2 said:


> Well, I've had some trouble with my finances and bills popping up unexpectedly, such is life I suppose. Though I was shooting for buying an Enigma or HeadTrip from Wells Audio, that is no longer a possibility in the near future. I decided that whilst a HeadTrip was the ideal, its little brother, "Milo", might be a good substitute for the time being. I am planning on using the Milo and upgrading to an Enigma or HeadTrip eventually. I am certainly open to the Milo being better than expected and just keeping it as my main amp!
> 
> At 18 watts into 32ohms, it certainly shouldn't be struggling to power the Abyss. I will be using my Chord Mojo as my system DAC for the time being, which should work out alright. Although I was hoping to put together an "end game" set up, I really hope this is a good fill in until money gets a bit easier nearer next summer. "End Games Little Brother." Milo instead of HeadTrip, Mojo instead of Dave/Pavane etc..
> 
> ...




I've heard it a couple of times, it is damn impressive.


----------



## mulder01

IMHO, it looks awful - kinda like a DIY project.  But as long as it sounds good.


----------



## ufospls2

mulder01 said:


> IMHO, it looks awful - kinda like a DIY project.  But as long as it sounds good.


 
 I actually like the way it looks. Only thing I would change is the chrome screws, I think it would look a lot sleeker with black screws. Also the headphone jack being black instead of chrome would make it more stealth. Apart from that I like how its different from the standard lower box.


----------



## Hansotek

ufospls2 said:


> I actually like the way it looks. Only thing I would change is the chrome screws, I think it would look a lot sleeker with black screws. Also the headphone jack being black instead of chrome would make it more stealth. Apart from that I like how its different from the standard lower box.




Yeah, Jeff told me he wanted to make an amp that looked totally different from the standard faire. There are some advantages to having most of the footprint oriented vertically - mostly in terms of desk space - the Milo takes up very little room in terms of length and width. Certainly far less than anything with comparable power and sound quality.


----------



## Kiats

hansotek said:


> Yeah, Jeff told me he wanted to make an amp that looked totally different from the standard faire. There are some advantages to having most of the footprint oriented vertically - mostly in terms of desk space - the Milo takes up very little room in terms of length and width. Certainly far less than anything with comparable power and sound quality.




And it looks like a normal tower CPU for a computer... imagine you have it at the corner of the work desk at home, the Mrs would never notice it...


----------



## Hansotek

kiats said:


> And it looks like a normal tower CPU for a computer... imagine you have it at the corner of the work desk at home, the Mrs would never notice it...




Brilliant!


----------



## draytonklammer

I currently have a Focal Utopia in my possession.
 I will have it for at least another day and I have already had it for a couple of days.
  
 Interesting switching between the Utopia and Abyss.


----------



## Torq

ufospls2 said:


>


 
  
 Wow, that thing is almost as ugly on the outside as their full-blown Head Trip is on the inside!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

torq said:


> Wow, that thing is almost as ugly on the outside as their full-blown Head Trip is on the inside!


 
  
 Haha.  Would this with the Abyss win some sort of 'ugly' award?  
  
 You know what: if it did it wouldn't matter.  If this amp is anything like the HeadTrip+Abyss, it'll sound so good no one will care what they look like listening to it.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Beauty and the beast?
  

  
 I think so.


----------



## ufospls2

bigfatpaulie said:


> Beauty and the beast?
> 
> 
> 
> I think so.


 
 How are you enjoying the Utopia so far? Looks great!


----------



## bmichels

ufospls2 said:


> How are you enjoying the Utopia so far? Looks great!




What Amp & Dac are you using to test the Focal & the Abyss ?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

ufospls2 said:


> How are you enjoying the Utopia so far? Looks great!


 
  
 Out of the box I was immediately struck but the look and feel of them.  They are leagues ahead of anything I've see from anyone else.  Just a really visually stunning pair of headphones.  I feel like most headphones you would put in people's hands, tell them how much they cost and the reaction would universally be, "REALLY?!?  That much?!" but with these I think you would simply get a nod of acknowledgement.  The look and feel like a luxury product.  
  
 Sound wise, I've only spent about an hour with them so I want to reserve comment just yet but their prowess is immediately obvious.  There is no question that these are world class headphones through and through. 
  
  


bmichels said:


> What Amp & Dac are you using to test the Focal & the Abyss ?


 
  
  
 Chord DAVE.


----------



## Beolab

bigfatpaulie said:


> Beauty and the beast?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The Ugly and the beast i would call it


----------



## mulder01

Yeah I don't think the Focal is great looking either.  I wonder how long before those holes in the leather collect with a mixture of dirt sweat and dust and then eventually tear... Sorry to sound negative but that is the first thing I thought of when I tried the old Oppo PM1 too.  Not trying to be anti-focal - I do love their speakers.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

ufospls2 said:


> I had similar findings in my time with the Utopia. Great headphone. If I had to choose just one I think I would choose the Abyss, but it would be a tough choice.


 
  
 It's a tough call, for sure.  I feel like listening to the Abyss is more of an event than the Utopia.  They are harder to put on, get the fit just so, etc.  They are a bit akin to vinyl - there is setup and that is part of the joy/ritual of them.  
  
 The Utopia, however, really, really 'gets out of the way' as they say.  It's a very easy headphone to listen too and it definitely commands attention (like the Abyss).  Having said that, I feel really good about picking up the Utopia's.  I'm a long time HD800 lover and think the Utopia's could replace them.  The Abyss are just too different from other offerings.  If I want that speaker sound, the Abyss is virtually unique to me.  
  
 I think the Utopia is more detailed than the Abyss - believe it or not.  Voices are more forward on the Utopia vs the Abyss.  But the Abyss has that tactility, sound stage quickness that makes them so special.


----------



## Yoga

Paulie - damnit! 'Complimentary' makes my trigger finger itchy. Ho hum. Thankfully a (very) local dealer will have them soon.


----------



## a1uc

And I thought I was all done with the Abyss , now I want to try the Utopia ,


----------



## bigfatpaulie

yoga said:


> Paulie - damnit! 'Complimentary' makes my trigger finger itchy. Ho hum. Thankfully a (very) local dealer will have them soon.


 
  
 Haha.  Sorry for your wallet!
  
 If someone said they prefer the Abyss to the Utopia, or vice versa, I would have no problem with that.  Someone who has both though...  
  


a1uc said:


> And I thought I was all done with the Abyss , now I want to try the Utopia ,


 
  
 Honestly, you are.  They are fantastic.  Close head-fi and go listen to some music. Upgraditis is a terrible (and contagious) disease.  Get vaccinated today.


----------



## mulder01

lol haven't seen the abyss thread so active in ages!
  
 One thing that I don't think got bought up is that anyone who _has actually tried the abyss_ can tell you how much you can tweak the sound by adjusting the fit slightly.  Given that these are not a "normal" fitting pair of headphones, you can't just push the measuring rig (or whatever it's called) up against the pads and hit go because that's not how they're used and varying the seal and position slightly will give you significantly different results.  But I have noticed over time on this forum that some people worship at the church of Tyll and some people listen to things for themselves.  Whatever makes you happy I suppose.
  
 I'd like to tell a quick story that's (sort of) related.  Years ago we were looking for a new small car for the wife to run around in.  I didn't want something gutless so I looked online at all the specs only to find that the kW of power were all within a few percent of each other across all the manufacturers and the weights weren't that much different either.  This told me that they would all be about as quick as each other.  Right?  Then we went and test drove a bunch of different cars and they were all annoyingly slow off the mark to the point of you didn't want to drive it because you would become one of those idiots who pulls out in front of traffic and (unwillingly) goes really slow.  With the exception of one which had twice the acceleration as the others but it has less power on paper than some of them... Why was it so?  I can't tell you, I thought at first the gear ratio of first gear must have been lower in this gearbox to help you get off the mark quicker but the acceleration remains the same all the way up to highway speeds.  Moral #1, boy I'm glad I took it for a test drive myself.  Moral #2, I am happy to drive X car, even though Y car measures better on paper.


----------



## jelt2359

bigfatpaulie said:


> Haha.  Sorry for your wallet!
> 
> If someone said they prefer the Abyss to the Utopia, or vice versa, I would have no problem with that.  Someone who has both though...
> 
> ...




Sounds like it would be an incredible match with the stellaris


----------



## a1uc

bigfatpaulie said:


> Out of the box I was immediately struck but the look and feel of them.  They are leagues ahead of anything I've see from anyone else.  Just a really visually stunning pair of headphones.  I feel like most headphones you would put in people's hands, tell them how much they cost and the reaction would universally be, "REALLY?!?  That much?!" but with these I think you would simply get a nod of acknowledgement.  The look and feel like a luxury product.
> 
> Sound wise, I've only spent about an hour with them so I want to reserve comment just yet but their prowess is immediately obvious.  There is no question that these are world class headphones through and through.
> 
> ...


 
 Chord DAVE nice , Im looking at buying one in the next week . I use a Totaldac Twelve 4 box setup now but always wanted to compare since the Twelve cost 2x more


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jelt2359 said:


> Sounds like it would be an incredible match with the stellaris


 
  
  
 I would say so.  They are very "easy to drive".  I think they will pair well with a good deal of top-shelf (and even not so top shelf) gear out there.   The kid in me is still considering a Studio, however, the adult in me say why bother with either.  What I have now is really so fantastic.   
  
  


a1uc said:


> Chord DAVE nice , Im looking at buying one in the next week . I use a Totaldac Twelve 4 box setup now but always wanted to compare since the Twelve cost 2x more


 
  
  
 I would be very curious about your findings.  The Totaldac sounds like an incredible item, though I have not heard the Twelve.  Regardless of which you prefer, I have a suspicion that the DAVE will handedly hold its own.


----------



## Hardertaskthinking

torq said:


> You can do *way* better for the price of the Bryston, at least in my opinion.
> 
> Hell, you can do way better for less than 1/10th the price ... unless you have some perverse need/love of HDMI inputs.


 
 I am an infrequent poster and I am certainly not here to start a war.  Everyone is entitled to his opinion but what you have just made seems like a sweeping statement.
  
 Bryston is a very reputable Canadian company which makes some very nice gear based on solid engineering with prices that do not go through the roof.  It also provides excellent service and stands behind its products: it offers a 20-year warranty for amplifiers and a 5-year warranty on its digital products (including the DACs).  There is a loyal following of Bryston around the world.
  
 The BDA-3 probably offers the best connectivity of any DAC I know.  But good connectivity means nothing if it does not sound good.  And to make that judgement (instead of just relying on the judgement of another person), you will have to listen for yourself.  Bryston is Canadian so it will not be difficult to find dealers in Canada that will facilitate a proper sit-down audition.
  
 At the end of it, you may or may not like what you hear.  That's the beauty of this hobby: the room for subjective opinions because we hear differently and feel differently.
  
 I am not affiliated to Bryston in any way.


----------



## Torq

hardertaskthinking said:


> I am an infrequent poster and I am certainly not here to start a war.  Everyone is entitled to his opinion but what you have just made seems like a sweeping statement.
> 
> Bryston is a very reputable Canadian company which makes some very nice gear based on solid engineering with prices that do not go through the roof.  It also provides excellent service and stands behind its products: it offers a 20-year warranty for amplifiers and a 5-year warranty on its digital products (including the DACs).  There is a loyal following of Bryston around the world.
> 
> ...


 

 It's a statement based on auditioning a large number of DACs ranging from $250 to well North of $10,000, which includes a proper audition of the Bryston BDA-3.
  
 While others may love it, the only opinion I have to offer is my own - and it *should be assumed* than any statement *anyone* makes here regarding impressions is just that: THEIR OWN opinion.  Mine's based on listening to the thing, back to back, with other comparably priced, as well as much cheaper, DACs.
  
 And in that comparison, it's performance is simply not justified by the price unless, as I said, you have to have HDMI inputs.  Even then, there are far cheaper ways to skin that cat and not compromise on the sonic results.
  
 The Bryston is easily outperformed, again in my opinion (one based on actually _hearing_ the unit) by a Schiit Bifrost Multibit which is an all-USA made DAC that also carries a 5 year warranty.  Of course, it does it for $599.  The Chord Mojo beats the Bryston.  In fact I can't think of a DAC on the list that I've auditioned recently that didn't beat the Bryston.
  
 --
  
 Have you actually heard this unit and compared it to the competition?


----------



## wasupdog

bryston is good equipment but it's pretty damn overpriced, especially when they dip their toes into a market segment which they don't specialize in.  you can justify their prices when you need bulletproof commercial studio equipment but there's less value for individual consumers like us.  they have a new cd player which is priced around $3,500.


----------



## paulchiu

After nearly 4 months of waiting, my dealer tells me that my Abyss Lite will arrive this Friday.  I almost forgot about it as recent chatter mostly cluster around the Focal Utopia.
  
 Anyway, I am excited about using the Abyss with the Nagra HD DAC and Chord DAVE when it finally arrives.
  
 Paul


----------



## mulder01

Wow 4 months!? Is there a wait time on Abyss at the moment?


----------



## paulchiu

mulder01 said:


> Wow 4 months!? Is there a wait time on Abyss at the moment?


 
  
 They say they had two and asked if I still wanted mine.
  
 Paul


----------



## m17xr2b

mulder01 said:


> Wow 4 months!? Is there a wait time on Abyss at the moment?


 
 Been waiting for three weeks and my dealer just told me it will be another two weeks. Seems the latest batch has some production issues and is being delayed.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Production has run 4 weeks since we introduced Abyss. This year 6-8 weeks is the norm simply due to volume of orders. 

They're hand-made products, The drivers are allowed much time to settle as they go through each stage of production. It's a slow process but so worthwhile as ultimately equates to the quality of sound, and reliability.

So...we're working on the issue.


----------



## paulchiu

joe skubinski said:


> Production has run 4 weeks since we introduced Abyss. This year 6-8 weeks is the norm simply due to volume of orders.
> 
> They're hand-made products, The drivers are allowed much time to settle as they go through each stage of production. It's a slow process but so worthwhile as ultimately equates to the quality of sound, and reliability.
> 
> So...we're working on the issue.


 
  
 Joe,
  
 Are parts and manufacture of the Abyss all made in the USA?
 Is Diana a real product?  Where are the specs?
 Thanks
  
 paul


----------



## Kiats

joe skubinski said:


> Production has run 4 weeks since we introduced Abyss. This year 6-8 weeks is the norm simply due to volume of orders.
> 
> They're hand-made products, The drivers are allowed much time to settle as they go through each stage of production. It's a slow process but so worthwhile as ultimately equates to the quality of sound, and reliability.
> 
> So...we're working on the issue.




As someone who has had the Abyss for a couple of years now and had loved every moment of that period, I will simply say that the wait is well worth it!


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Proudly made in Buffalo, New York

By al means Diana is real. She's out there with a select few, though not yet in final production. Lot's going on all around her, we now have two portable players with enough power for her, the excellent sounding Lotoo PAW Gold Diana® Edition DAP is now available exclusively in the US, and a Diana® Edition amp module for the Fiio X7 player is coming soon.

BTW, Abyss Headphones and JPS Labs will be in Denver October 7-9, 2016 at the Rocky Mountain Audiofest in room 6000 and CanJam, where many big boy toys from Woo Audio and others will be playing on no less than 6 pairs of AB-1266. Hope to see some of you there!


----------



## mulder01

So the Lotoo Diana edition just has a more powerful amp than the standard Lotoo?  I briefly looked at the link the other day and the difference wasn't obvious...


----------



## Joe Skubinski

For Abyss, we asked Lotoo to make the PAW Gold zero to one hundred volume control to go to 135.
Also comes with 256 GB storage, and many high rez sample tracks preloaded, including DSD studio masters. 
It's a damn good sounding portable headphone player/amp, and can run as a desktop continuously on it's AC power supply. Pretty cool!
http://www.theevolutionofsound.com/lotoo-paw-gold


----------



## HiFiGuy528

joe skubinski said:


> Proudly made in Buffalo, New York
> 
> By al means Diana is real. She's out there with a select few, though not yet in final production. Lot's going on all around her, we now have two portable players with enough power for her, the excellent sounding Lotoo PAW Gold Diana® Edition DAP is now available exclusively in the US, and a Diana® Edition amp module for the Fiio X7 player is coming soon.
> 
> BTW, Abyss Headphones and JPS Labs will be in Denver October 7-9, 2016 at the Rocky Mountain Audiofest in room 6000 and CanJam, where many big boy toys from Woo Audio and others will be playing on no less than 6 pairs of AB-1266. Hope to see some of you there!


 
  
 We'll have our flagship WA234MONO and upcoming WA22-SE (Prototype #2) in the JPS Labs room #6000.


----------



## paulchiu

It's finally here.  My unboxing:


----------



## Toolman

Congrats  now let us know your quick impressions


----------



## Kiats

Congrats,,paulchiu! Let the listening pleasure begin!


----------



## Beolab

New Yello album out now on Tidal, it is a beautiful match with the Abyss i can ashore everyone: https://tidal.com/album/65217831

Especially this track: https://tidal.com/track/65217837


----------



## draytonklammer

Still the best headphones I have ever used. The Utopia did well, but the Abyss won by a fair margin for me.


----------



## mulder01

Dunno why other manufacturers even try 

 Maybe when the Diana comes out, the step down from the Abyss might put it in line with some of these other flagships which will be pretty nice considering it's portability.
  
 But unless Tyll puts it on his wall of expectation-bias-influenced-personal-preference (pretty sure that's what it was called?) it will fly under many people's radar...


----------



## mulder01

Hey Joe, was Jude mistaken in this video at 42:00 when he mentioned that the Diana edition of the Paw Gold was also intended for use with the 1266?  Or was that the intention - that this player is designed to handle both offerings from Abyss headphones - not just the Diana?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Paw Gold Diana Edition drives the AB-1266 to plenty high volume levels; smooth, detailed, excellent sound signature. We will have a pair of Abyss on it at Rocky Mountain Audiofest.


----------



## paulchiu

joe skubinski said:


> Paw Gold Diana Edition drives the AB-1266 to plenty high volume levels; smooth, detailed, excellent sound signature. We will have a pair of Abyss on it at Rocky Mountain Audiofest.


 
  
 Joe,
  
 How does this combo compares with Abyss and Hugo?
  
 Paul


----------



## mulder01

...did you just ask a manufacturer that had a hand in developing a product with another company if it's any good?  I think the answer is yes Paul, the paw gold is clearly the best product choice to satisfy all your audiophile desires  
  
 If this thing really can do a good job with the 1266, it would have to be the only one box portable UI / dac / amp solution ever made that can do this right?  I mean things like the Hugo and idsd etc can drive them, but you need a player to go with them.  Maybe AK380+amp module, maybe, sortof, but dat price tho...  If anyone at RMAF can report back that'd be super.
  
 I know I'm probably the only one excited about this but hey...


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> ...did you just ask a manufacturer that had a hand in developing a product with another company if it's any good?  I think the answer is yes Paul, the paw gold is clearly the best product choice to satisfy all your audiophile desires
> 
> If this thing really can do a good job with the 1266, it would have to be the only one box portable UI / dac / amp solution ever made that can do this right?  I mean things like the Hugo and idsd etc can drive them, but you need a player to go with them.  Maybe AK380+amp module, maybe, sortof, but dat price tho...  If anyone at RMAF can report back that'd be super.
> 
> I know I'm probably the only one excited about this but hey...




If you ever take them out in public and walk around with the Abyss you have to take a selfie and publish here on HeadFi 

What is the estimated retail price Joe?


----------



## paulchiu

mulder01 said:


> ...did you just ask a manufacturer that had a hand in developing a product with another company if it's any good?  I think the answer is yes Paul, the paw gold is clearly the best product choice to satisfy all your audiophile desires
> 
> If this thing really can do a good job with the 1266, it would have to be the only one box portable UI / dac / amp solution ever made that can do this right?  I mean things like the Hugo and idsd etc can drive them, but you need a player to go with them.  Maybe AK380+amp module, maybe, sortof, but dat price tho...  If anyone at RMAF can report back that'd be super.
> 
> I know I'm probably the only one excited about this but hey...


 
  
 did not know about that....


----------



## mulder01

beolab said:


> If you ever take them out in public and walk around with the Abyss you have to take a selfie and publish here on HeadFi
> 
> What is the estimated retail price Joe?


 
  
 Not for public - just for convenience and portability around the house - why have a stack of desktop gear if something you can fit in your pocket can do the same thing?


----------



## Beolab

Yes that is very true, have you read any review yet ? 

WiFi inkl Tidal had been a killer machine like the A&K players.


----------



## mulder01

I don't think it's out yet?  I thought it would come out with the Diana?  Dunno.
  
 I am not really interested in the AK players mostly because of the pricing - the times I have tried efficient headphones through a $200 ipod vs a $2000 AK player they have sounded the same to me.  Plus they keep bringing out new models which depreciate the previous models even more.  If I buy a $5000 player today and try and sell it in 5 years I'll be lucky to get $1000 for it IMO.  Plus the AK380 + amp is double the price of my desktop rig anyway, and the only person I saw who had tried it with the 1266, said he was looking at getting the amp modified to be powerful enough...
  
 In fairness the PAW gold is probably a bit of a throw away piece of electronics too, but for half the money and a true all in one box solution and to have Joe's recommendation makes me a fair bit more interested.  If it sounds as good as what I've got, (which is considered fairly entry level in terms of Abyss rigs anyway)  I'll be happy to make the switch.


----------



## Andykong

Checked out the WA234 setup at JPS (Room 6000), fabulous sound, effortless and authoritative, while someone might prefer the WA5LE setup for vocal, but I definitely prefer the WA234 setup for its all round performance,whether I can afford it is another issue.

Cayin electronic is also demoed in JPS Room. The iDAC-6 and iHA-6 combo is probably the budget desktop system in the room. They have a portable corner near the entrance and I have tried our Cayin i5 (line out to WA8) and N5 (2.5mm balanced driving the Abyss direcyly). Thus is the first time I heard Abyss paired with DAP and I am pretty amazed by the N5, it won't do justice to the Abyss, but it does drive the Abyss to fairly high sound level (80-85 at high gain) and I would describe the set up as "listenable".


----------



## stvc

anyone interested with DHC Prion cable with 6.35mm termination do let me know .


----------



## mulder01

The mighty Prion! What are you using instead?


----------



## ufospls2

andykong said:


> Checked out the WA234 setup at JPS (Room 6000), fabulous sound, effortless and authoritative, while someone might prefer the WA5LE setup for vocal, but I definitely prefer the WA234 setup for its all round performance,whether I can afford it is another issue.
> 
> Cayin electronic is also demoed in JPS Room. The iDAC-6 and iHA-6 combo is probably the budget desktop system in the room. They have a portable corner near the entrance and I have tried our Cayin i5 (line out to WA8) and N5 (2.5mm balanced driving the Abyss direcyly). Thus is the first time I heard Abyss paired with DAP and I am pretty amazed by the N5, it won't do justice to the Abyss, but it does drive the Abyss to fairly high sound level (80-85 at high gain) and I would describe the set up as "listenable".


 
 Whats that XIAUDIO (I'm assuming thats what it says) amp beside the Cayin stack like? Google turned up nothing, so I'm assuming its very new or a prototype?


----------



## mtoc

Please make some updates on 1266, please.......


----------



## mulder01

mtoc said:


> Please make some updates on 1266, please.......


 
  
 For example...


----------



## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> For example...




This is what I was about to post.


----------



## mulder01

"If it aint broke, don't fix it"


----------



## wink

If you don't own one, you won't have to...


----------



## mulder01

mtoc - if you're worried about it not being the latest release in the headphone world, JPS has already mentioned that their next release is going to be a more budget headphone, not something to better the Abyss - so if you buy one, you don't have to worry about it being outdated any time soon.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Back from 2016 RMAF and CanJam with a few pix..


Abyss AB-1266, Woo Audio WA-234 amps, Mytek Manhattan DAC, JPS Labs Superconductor HP headphone cables, JPS Labs Super Aluminata XLR interconnect, Aluminata AC Cables, KR Audio 300B HP and 274B HP tubes. Total system price ~USD $51,000 ! (iMac not included


AB-1266, Woo WA-22 SE prototype, Mytek Brooklyn DAC, JPS Labs Superconductor HP headphone cable, JPS Labs Superconductor V interconnects and USB cables, Kaptovator Lite AC cord on amp, Digital AC-X AC cord on DAC




Abyss AB-1266, Woo WA-5 LE amp, Mytek Brooklyn DAC, JPS Labs Superconductor V interconnects and USB cables, Kaptovator Lite AC cord on amp, Digital AC-X AC cord on DAC


Woo WA-234 key set (allows different tube/output combos)


AB-1266, new Cayin iDAC-6 and iHA-6 DAC/amp combo, and prototype XIAUDIO one watt class A amp, JPS Labs Superconductor V interconnect and USB cables, Kaptovator Lite AC cables




CanJam... AB-1266, Lotoo PAW Gold Diana Edition DAP


----------



## mulder01

Looks like a good show.
  
 Is the paw gold Diana available yet?  Or do you just buy a normal paw gold and do a firmware update?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Marjorie and Jude pulled off an amazing show!

PAW Gold Diana Edition is currently only available in the USA through http://www.TheEvolutionOfSound.com

Diana will also have a custom amp module for the Fiio X7 made exclusively for her that will also drive the AB-1266.


----------



## Beolab

Someone who can share any report and impressions of the sound with Abyss in + Looto Gold in combination from the RMAF exhibit ?


----------



## MacedonianHero

beolab said:


> Someone who can share any report and impressions of the sound with Abyss in + Looto Gold in combination from the RMAF exhibit ?


 
  
 I was floored when the Looto Gold drove the Abyss so darn well! In fact, that's all that was on the JPS booth with the Abyss headphones. But that said, they did sound quite a bit better on full sized powerful desktop amps like the Woo monoblocks or Wells Audio Head Trip. But for a portable option, absolutely!


----------



## Hansotek

I never got around to hearing it on the Looto Gold, but I really enjoyed it on the Wells Headtrip (which I've heard many times) and Milo. That Milo packs a hell of a punch, man. I'll have a review unit in-house starting next week and will post further impressions, but wow, that thing is killer with the Abyss for $1,699.


----------



## MacedonianHero

hansotek said:


> I never got around to hearing it on the Looto Gold, but I really enjoyed it on the Wells Headtrip (which I've heard many times) and Milo. That Milo packs a hell of a punch, man. I'll have a review unit in-house starting next week and will post further impressions, but wow, that thing is killer with the Abyss for $1,699.


 
 The Head Trip was just that...a head trip! The new Milo just released was very good too...totally agreed!


----------



## Beolab

macedonianhero said:


> The Head Trip was just that...a head trip! The new Milo just released was very good too...totally agreed!




Just sold my HeadTrip, it did have a great attack and punch with great scale, but was not as transparent and you lost to much of the fine layering and information sadly. 

So i am just drive my Abyss with the DAVE and on occasionally the Moon 600i amp.


----------



## ufospls2

macedonianhero said:


> The Head Trip was just that...a head trip! The new Milo just released was very good too...totally agreed!


 
 I'm really looking forward to receiving my Milo, can't wait to try it with the Abyss. I'd love to hear the HeadTrip some day, but for now the Milo will have to do. From the initial reports, it seems like a good budget choice for the Abyss.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Hey Guys,
  
 Anyone Compared the Focal Utopia against the Abyss?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

matthewhypolite said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Anyone Compared the Focal Utopia against the Abyss?


 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/822867/the-3-heavy-weights-and-other-audio-myths-abyss-vs-utopia-vs-lcd4s


----------



## ufospls2

matthewhypolite said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Anyone Compared the Focal Utopia against the Abyss?


 
 Aye, I did a while back. I'll copy paste it below. 
  
 "
 Well,
  
 Today I had the chance to listen to the Focal Utopia and my Abyss AB-1266 in the same session. Who was the winner? Neither! They are so different, but so similar, its hard to say one is better than the other. The Utopia is a FANTASTIC headphone. The Abyss is a FANTASTIC headphone. I really enjoyed both of them. The Abyss is a larger than life experience for your ears. Big soundstage, like its enveloping your whole head. The Utopia is a smaller experience, more intimate. I’ll get more specific below. 
  
 Bass: I’m a bit of a bass head, so for me, the Abyss is the winner in this category. The Abyss just does bass so well, and there is SO much of it. Whilst there is SO much of it, it isn’t overpowering leaving you wanting more mids and treble. Its such a well balanced sound signature, with an emphasis on the bass. The Utopia has less bass, but its quality is superb. Very cohesive and well rounded. I tried bumping up the bass on the Utopia about 2.5db around 60hz with EQ, which took it to another level, for me, as I like bass. The bass is fast and accurate on the Utopia, similar to the Abyss. All in all, both headphones do bass very well, I just happen to like the bigger fuller bass of the Abyss. 
  
 Mids: The winner here, is the Utopia. Very smooth and nicely presented. I wouldn’t say the Utopia is a warm headphone, but it isn’t cold and clinical either. The mids aren’t overbearing, and don’t wash out any of the other frequencies. The lower mids could maybe be a bit less present, but this is something you can play about EQ with, and tweak to your liking. The mids are on the Utopia are….silky? Does that make sense. They flow together so well. The mids on the Abyss are great, as I said, both these headphone in general are GREAT. Its just that with the Utopia they are a bit different, and different in a way that rustled my jimmies, in a good way. 
  
 Treble: Tie. Between the Abyss and the Utopia the Treble isn’t harsh on either. I didn’t hear spikes at any frequency that would make your ears bleed. The highs are clear and precise, but not overly so, on both headphones. The crystal shimmer of Brian Blades Spizzichinos and Old K came across so well it was enough to put a smile on my face. 
  
 Soundstage: I like a big soundstage, so for me, the Abyss wins in this section. Its more “out of the head” and…speaker like for lack of a better expression. The Utopia is more intimate, more headphone like. The soundstage on the Utopia is smaller than that of the HD800S, but not by too much. With that being said
  
 Imaging: Utopia wins on this one. My god, it is accurate. Pin point precision on where stuff is and it makes it so easy to figure out what is going on. I didn’t try any, but I’m sure binaural recordings would make you go wow with the Utopia. The Imaging on the Abyss is no slouch though, just not as accurate as the Utopia. If you get a recording you know like the back of your hand, that you now where everything goes and have experienced on many headphones, give it a listen on the Utopia. It will tell you where things really are in the recording. 
  
 Build Quality: Tie. The Abyss is an industrial like tank. I love it. Some hate it. It floats my boat, although it is a heavy headphone. Once you get the Abyss set up right, which takes a while, the weight doesn’t bother me at all. I guess I have a strong neck or something, as the LCD-4 doesn’t bother me either. The Abyss just feels so solid and well made. The Utopia feels SUPER premium. Its like an F1 car. All carbon fiber-y and leather. It is lighter than the Abyss, and you notice it on your head less than the Abyss. 
  
 Comparisons to other headphones? Hmm, I didn’t have my other cans with me so I will just do this quickly, and take it with a grain of salt is I didn’t do a direct comparison as I did with the Abyss. I have owned all of these headphones below, and know them very well.
  
 LCD-4: Similar in terms of soundstage. LCD-4 is warmer, and the mids are better. Bass is bigger on the LCD-4, but the quality and speed of bass is better on the Utopia. Treble, the Utopia wins. Build quality is a tie. The LCD-4 is like a sumptuous cigar lounge, the Utopia as I said earlier, is like and F1 car. 
  
 HE1000: The Utopia wins in every area, to me at least. It is just a better headphone, again in my opinion. With that being said, I can see why someone would prefer the HE1000. Its soundstage is bigger, and its more of a kick back and chill headphone. Build quality? The HE1000 is like a crap DIY job, and the Utopia is more like fine Italian craftsman build furniture. 
  
 HD800S: Similar headphones, but the Utopia is more involving and dynamic. The soundstage and imaging on the HD800S is fantastic, imaging is almost as good as the Utopia. Surprisingly the Utopia did Treble better than the HD800S. Its just a bit cleaner and less shimmery. 
  
 Elear…..I didn’t get a chance to hear the Elear!!! I ran out of time. So no comparison here.
  
  
 So I’ll wrap it up here. The Utopia is a wonderful new addition the Flagship territory of headphonedom. It is very different than the Abyss. Smaller, both in size and sound. With that being said, in that smaller package, it packs a helluva punch. I can’t decide on either being better. I would love to add the Utopia to my collection someday, it is an all round superb headphone. It feels great, looks great, sounds great. Whats not to like? I’m glad I own the Abyss, and won’t be getting rid of it anytime soon. In fact, if it broke, I would buy another Abyss before buying the Utopia. I just really like the Abyss."


----------



## matthewhypolite

Thanks guys.

 Wanna get my hands on  Utopia. Was wondering if to shell out the cash and add a 3rd headphone to my lineup. if to sell the abyss and try the Utopia etc.
 So doing alot of reading and research on them atm. Also researching the HEK V2 upgrade.

 Alot new out there, this journey never ends. lol.


----------



## Beolab

*Teaser: 

Specially made item from Joe @ Jps Labs *[COLOR=FF00AA][/COLOR]


----------



## mulder01

matthewhypolite said:


> *snip* if to sell the abyss and try the Utopia etc. *snip*


 
  
 NOOOOOO DON'T DO IT!
  
 No doubt Utopia is good but a different beast.  Different flavour - not improved version of same flavour.  To replace one flavour of ice cream with another one you haven't tasted is a risky move... Might pay off, but might spiral into a deep pit of regret and sadness.  Up to you. 
  
  
 Vegan pads Beo?


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> NOOOOOO DON'T DO IT!
> 
> No doubt Utopia is good but a different beast.  Different flavour - not improved version of same flavour.  To replace one flavour of ice cream with another one you haven't tasted is a risky move... Might pay off, but might spiral into a deep pit of regret and sadness.  Up to you.
> 
> ...


 
  
 No, you cant eat them =)
  
 It is a custom made pair of Black Alcantara® Abyss Ear-Pads for a more velvety sound and comfort for certain tracks.
 You will miss out slightly in clarity / definition, but get a little softer more velvety high res tone instead according to Joe.
  
 Just a nice cool option to have.
  
  
  
 More pictures on the looks and details will be posted during Monday.


----------



## stersa

beolab said:


> No, you cant eat them =)
> 
> It is a custom made pair of Black Alcantara® Abyss Ear-Pads for a more velvety sound and comfort for certain tracks.
> You will miss out slightly in clarity / definition, but get a little softer more velvety high res tone instead according to Joe.
> ...


 
 Hi from Spain.
  
 I m interested in order one. It's possible ??  How ??
  
 Regards
  
 Sisco


----------



## matthewhypolite

mulder01 said:


> NOOOOOO DON'T DO IT!
> 
> No doubt Utopia is good but a different beast.  Different flavour - not improved version of same flavour.  To replace one flavour of ice cream with another one you haven't tasted is a risky move... Might pay off, but might spiral into a deep pit of regret and sadness.  Up to you.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had a listening session with my Abyss over the weekend with music it excels at, and i fell inlove with them all over again. Everytime i start thinking to switch out the Abyss, they kick me in the rare end and say no way 

 I do want to try out the Focals though.


----------



## matthewhypolite

beolab said:


> No, you cant eat them =)
> 
> It is a custom made pair of Black Alcantara® Abyss Ear-Pads for a more velvety sound and comfort for certain tracks.
> You will miss out slightly in clarity / definition, but get a little softer more velvety high res tone instead according to Joe.
> ...


 
 oooouuuuu alcantara. good stuff.


----------



## matthewhypolite

beolab said:


> No, you cant eat them =)
> 
> It is a custom made pair of Black Alcantara® Abyss Ear-Pads for a more velvety sound and comfort for certain tracks.
> You will miss out slightly in clarity / definition, but get a little softer more velvety high res tone instead according to Joe.
> ...


 
 ooouuu Alcantara, good stuff.


----------



## Hansotek

beolab said:


> No, you cant eat them =)
> 
> It is a custom made pair of Black Alcantara® Abyss Ear-Pads for a more velvety sound and comfort for certain tracks.
> You will miss out slightly in clarity / definition, but get a little softer more velvety high res tone instead according to Joe.
> ...




Color me interested!


----------



## ufospls2

Those Alcantara pads look awesome! However, I know how much a replacement pair of leather pads are, and they are not the cheapest pads out there, haha. I would assume a custom set of Alcantara pads are the same, or even more. Definitely worth a look though in the future, I sure wouldn't mind hearing a "softer and more velvety" tone from my Abyss. Changing pads is so easy with the Abyss, it would be a really cool change of flavour on occasion. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## ufospls2

A great way to spend a lazy Saturday afternoon inside hiding from the fast approaching storm.


----------



## matthewhypolite

ufospls2 said:


> A great way to spend a lazy Saturday afternoon inside hiding from the fast approaching storm.


 
 SWEET!


----------



## Beolab

stersa said:


> Hi from Spain.
> 
> 
> I m interested in order one. It's possible ??  How ??
> ...




Just e-mail Joe @ Jps Labs and see if he can help you out if you are very lucky, no promising.


----------



## Beolab

ufospls2 said:


> Those Alcantara pads look awesome! However, I know how much a replacement pair of leather pads are, and they are not the cheapest pads out there, haha. I would assume a custom set of Alcantara pads are the same, or even more. Definitely worth a look though in the future, I sure wouldn't mind hearing a "softer and more velvety" tone from my Abyss. Changing pads is so easy with the Abyss, it would be a really cool change of flavour on occasion. Thanks for sharing!




I will receive them during Monday, so i will keep you updated. 

Because it is just one set special made, the price is high.  

I do not remember the price on the stock pads? 

But just PM Joe and ask, maybe you can do a group order.


----------



## matthewhypolite

beolab said:


> I will receive them during Monday, so i will keep you updated.
> 
> Because it is just one set special made, the price is high.
> 
> ...


 
 Group order..hmm..i may be interested in something like that. Please post impressions once you get them. Re:comfort/sound quality impact.


----------



## mulder01

I was talking to xecuter a while back about different pads and he said Joe would make them for him, but did not recommend them.  So he never went ahead with the order.  I think Beo will be the first to try it...


----------



## Xecuter

yeh Joe didn't recommend the vegan pads for my preferences but If I could get a pair for maybe $300 usd I think i would be on board 
 I have built a custom pad mounting rig for my Abyss so I can roll pads but I still prefer the leather ones Joe made to anything else..
 Only issue is my Abyss Pads don't seem to be totally symmetrical.. So I can't ever get them to line up perfectly no matter how I do it..


----------



## Beolab

That is something Joe have to considder if a group buy can reduce the fabricating cost down to 300$ , maybe if you order like 20 pieces. Gather up and place him a PM. 

Yes Joe did not recomend them for reference listening, but you get a diffrent tone, and that could be good for some type of music, or if your mindset are set for a more velvety presentation as an alternativ. 

Im waiting for UPS to arrive btw 5 PM - 7 PM to day.


----------



## Beolab

Update: 








After 3 hours comparison with the new Alcantara Ear-Pads i have to say that the difference is pretty huge from my perspective. 

Firstly the sound are more pronounced and got more spark , more linear in the mid / highs and less dampened. The bass is more stiff, and not so visceral / low rumbling as we are used to. The mids are much more in focus and the inner detail is more pronounced with more 3D. 
With the leather pads the bass is more round and go lower in the frequency, more like a subwoofer as we all know. 
Because of the more opened sound with less dampening i could set the vol. 10db lower on my amp than i use to, because the leather pads damp the mids slightly, so normally you are playing higher than you think i realised this evening. 

To summarise this, i have to listen a little more extensive, but this is my first impressions of the new ear-pads. 
Are they better or worse you are asking ? 

Hum, hard to say, i miss out the visceral bass of the leather pads and the Abyss dark magic, whereas the alcantara pads got other qualities, so it is cool option to have. 
More studio monitor sound and very correct and precise, but less romantic and magical. 
Maybe this pads can be perfect for some setups. 

More impressions still to come.


----------



## ufospls2

beolab said:


> Update:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 They look fantastic! In my opinion at least. What cable is that you are using there? Double Helix?


----------



## Beolab

ufospls2 said:


> They look fantastic! In my opinion at least. What cable is that you are using there? Double Helix?




In our community where we say huge are not hearable for a common man, but i couldn't imagine that the impact should be this big actually, it sounds almost as a different pair of headphones almost in some areas. 

Better or not is hard to say, slight better in some mid / upper areas more linear / flatter / pronaunced, but more numb/stiffer in the lower area, but a very cool option. 

Yes the softer looks and feel are immense. 

And yes this evening i where using my 
DHC Prion4 S cables, and i also got the Jps Superconductor HP, and the Jps org. Abyss one to handy.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

beolab said:


> *In our community where we say huge are not hearable for a common man*, but i couldn't imagine that the impact should be this big actually, it sounds almost as a different pair of headphones almost in some areas.
> 
> Better or not is hard to say, slight better in some mid / upper areas more linear / flatter / pronaunced, but more numb/stiffer in the lower area, but a very cool option.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Amen, brother!
  
 How does the Silver Comp4 vs the Prion stack up?


----------



## ufospls2

beolab said:


> In our community where we say huge are not hearable for a common man, but i couldn't imagine that the impact should be this big actually, it sounds almost as a different pair of headphones almost in some areas.
> 
> Better or not is hard to say, slight better in some mid / upper areas more linear / flatter / pronaunced, but more numb/stiffer in the lower area, but a very cool option.
> 
> ...


 
 Thats very interesting about the pads. I agree, a "huge" difference to us, might not be perceptible to someone who doesn't care as much about audio. 
  
 Do you find the various cables make a difference (I'm not trying to start the old cable war here, just curious)? Which do you prefer out of the cables you have heard? The Superconductor HP is beautiful, but at $2200USD there are other more pressing issues I must deal with first, notably my amp/dac situation. In the future, a different cable could be a fun option to have, but for now, the stock cable is great. Its certainly the best stock cable I have experienced, build quality wise at least.


----------



## Beolab

ufospls2 said:


> Thats very interesting about the pads. I agree, a "huge" difference to us, might not be perceptible to someone who doesn't care as much about audio.
> 
> Do you find the various cables make a difference (I'm not trying to start the old cable war here, just curious)? Which do you prefer out of the cables you have heard? The Superconductor HP is beautiful, but at $2200USD there are other more pressing issues I must deal with first, notably my amp/dac situation. In the future, a different cable could be a fun option to have, but for now, the stock cable is great. Its certainly the best stock cable I have experienced, build quality wise at least.




You repeated what i just explained: 

"In our community where we say huge difference are often not even noticeable for a common man, but i couldn't imagine that the impact should be this big actually, it sounds almost as a different pair of headphones in some areas."



The Prion 4S is almost twice as expensive as the SuperConductor HP cable, so the cables represent a very good value/performance in their own price range category.
Prion is even more analog fluid than the spore, and gives more body and the soundstadge feels deeper, but it is not a huge diffrence. 

We can take the cable debate through PM instead please


----------



## matthewhypolite

I have the spore4 fusion myself, was considering the superconductor, but decided to hold off.


----------



## Xecuter

Well I guess if we want to do a group buy we need a bit of interest and I will ask/beg Joe nicely and see what we can organise.
 I'll start a list here. Just PM me with interest and I'll add you to the list.
 1. Xecuter


----------



## Petul

Hi, Will a Liquid Fire drive Abyss sufficiently?


----------



## MacedonianHero

petul said:


> Hi, Will a Liquid Fire drive Abyss sufficiently?


 
 Yes! Heck it did an admirable job with the HE-6s.


----------



## Hansotek

Man, the Abyss really seems to love it when you feed your DAC with a coax cable from the source. Just busted out an old CD player for kicks today. I think I'll be keeping this in the chain for sure!


----------



## a1uc

What do you guys recommend for a HP cable for my Abyss to the Chord Dave ?


----------



## Hansotek

a1uc said:


> What do you guys recommend for a HP cable for my Abyss to the Chord Dave ?




I just finished reviewing the new DanaCable Lazuli Reference series cable for the Abyss (review should be up on Enjoy the Music next week), and it is phenomenally musical. I honestly haven't been able to put the Abyss down since I have had it.


----------



## Xecuter

I'm shopping for one too. I just want a really well made copper cable that doesn't cost thousands..


----------



## isquirrel

beolab said:


> You repeated what i just explained:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hello Frederick, I was interested to see you have the new Prion 4S, I am waiting for mine, plus a set of Interconnects to see how they go. I am still waiting on a pair of the Focal Utopia's, they seem impossible to find, I was hoping to have a pair by now so I can tell Peter from DHC which termination to go with as standard, the rest will need adapters. Just switched back over to y Abyss for the weekend, this time I am using 45's Tubes, nice and direct sound compared to the 300B's. I am looking forward to comparing the Abyss, LCD-4, Utopia's to the Stax 009's when they show up. I don't expect the Stax to have anything like the Abyss bass, has anyone here heard both and would like to share their thoughts please?


----------



## Beolab

isquirrel said:


> Hello Frederick, I was interested to see you have the new Prion 4S, I am waiting for mine, plus a set of Interconnects to see how they go. I am still waiting on a pair of the Focal Utopia's, they seem impossible to find, I was hoping to have a pair by now so I can tell Peter from DHC which termination to go with as standard, the rest will need adapters. Just switched back over to y Abyss for the weekend, this time I am using 45's Tubes, nice and direct sound compared to the 300B's. I am looking forward to comparing the Abyss, LCD-4, Utopia's to the Stax 009's when they show up. I don't expect the Stax to have anything like the Abyss bass, has anyone here heard both and would like to share their thoughts please?


 
  
  
 Hi Simon!
  
 Yes Peter take his time, but these cables is in the same time very special and a clear step up in richness / fluidness from the Spore4 or Comp4, they sound very analog and transparent.
  
 Yes i have heard the Utopia briefly, but not on my setup at home, and they sounded similar to the 800s but had a better grip and precision and where more powerful in the (dry) bass area,  but nevertheless i find the Abyss do have much better soundstage, image, visceral bass and they do sound more as a pair of  great Kharma speakers vs a very good pair of headphones with similarity's to the utopia speakers.
  
 Stax SR-009 ? Have you bought the MSB Select II headphone amp you are saying BTL ? =)


----------



## Toolman

> Originally Posted by *Beolab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...these cables is in the same time very special and a clear step up in richness / fluidness from the Spore4 or Comp4, they sound very analog and transparent.


 
  
 wondered if a pure silver cable will sound too bright for Utopia? I know Peter mentioned that non of his silver cables sounded bright but I want to get the feedbacks from actual owners before handing over $2K for a set of cables


----------



## Hansotek

toolman said:


> wondered if a pure silver cable will sound too bright for Utopia? I know Peter mentioned that non of his silver cables sounded bright but I want to get the feedbacks from actual owners before handing over $2K for a set of cables




I'd probably go with a copper cable for the Utopia, personally.


----------



## Beolab

toolman said:


> wondered if a pure silver cable will sound too bright for Utopia? I know Peter mentioned that non of his silver cables sounded bright but I want to get the feedbacks from actual owners before handing over $2K for a set of cables




I can ensure you that these cables does not sound bright at all, ( normally silver cables sounds bright, analytical and slight harsh, that is true, but if you are using 18 AWG multi stranded pure 5N silver you get a totally different result) 

They sound more on the warmer / richer side actually, so i think they will give the Utopia good synergy effect, from my perspective.


----------



## isquirrel

beolab said:


> I can ensure you that these cables does not sound bright at all, ( normally silver cables sounds bright, analytical and slight harsh, that is true, but if you are using 18 AWG multi stranded pure 5N silver you get a totally different result)
> 
> They sound more on the warmer / richer side actually, so i think they will give the Utopia good synergy effect, from my perspective.


 

 I fully agree with that statement, I was honestly expecting DHC's pure Silver Comp4 to sound bright, certainly brighter than the Comp4 copper cables they replaced. There was not a hint of brightness, its genuinely the one of the few times in my audiophile life that Peter's description of them fully matched what I heard. Almost no break in was required either. I am very much looking forward to the new Prion cables, I will be reviewing the Headphone cables as well as a set of matching interconnects that DHC have sent of their own volition., knowing full well they are going up against some very expensive Transparent cables. 
  
 The only problem I have to choose a termination and until I hear the Utopia's I can't. They seem to be out of stock certainly in this country.


----------



## mulder01

Is there something about the stock cable's sound that people feel the need to replace it?  
 Or is it just to scratch the itch to tinker?  
 Or does the fact that the name "alumiloy" makes you think WHAT ALUMINIUM? THAT'S NOT AS CONDUCTIVE AS COPPER OMG MUST REPLACE!


----------



## a1uc

I'm using the stock Abyss cable seems fine to me , 
I tried a DHC awhile back and decided I liked the stock 
abyss cable . Plus the Spore 4 Dual 3 pin XLR Felt like 
I was using a garden hose which was a turn off .


----------



## stersa

I also use a stock cable..
I dont belive that other cable would be better ..in sound terms

Regards

Sisco


----------



## Beolab

I belive in my own impressions and facts, because i have the possibility to compare, and there is a big sonically difference as if you have changed the dac for example.


----------



## a1uc

stersa said:


> I also use a stock cable..
> I dont belive that other cable would be better ..in sound terms
> 
> Regards
> ...


 

 I believe that there are better cables out there for sure and I would be the 1st to buy one if I heard one I liked . Im just not going to drop 2000.00 without hearing it . Also it better be a day and night difference not I think it does sound a little better .


----------



## ufospls2

I just let my dad hear the Abyss for the first time, and played him Curtis Mayfield - Pusherman. It was just out of the Chord Mojo, nothing special, definitely not the Abyss at its best. The smile on his face, man he was groovin' hard. At the end of the day, thats what its all about, isn't it? I bought him a pair of Grado SR80's a year ago, and he loves them. However he said "man, I love my Grados, but.....its a bit of a difference isn't it.."


----------



## Xecuter

a1uc said:


> I believe that there are better cables out there for sure and I would be the 1st to buy one if I heard one I liked . Im just not going to drop 2000.00 without hearing it . Also it better be a day and night difference not I think it does sound a little better .


 
  
 Once you have a decent amp and dac differences will never be night and day anymore.. you are really just fine tuning the sound.


----------



## daryldixon

I have a good DAC and Amp on my 2 ch system and have no problem hearing a difference with cables . I'm sure it would be easier wth a hp rig . Also depends on the cables some don't have a big change in sound and some are huge .


----------



## Xecuter

I'm of the opinion that a lot of these night and day changes are massively overstated. Changing interconnects in my experience has only really caused subtle changes. Maybe night and day between an unshielded $5 cable and a properly shielded cable, but comparing silver litz and copper on my k10s and on my HP rig was noticeable, but I would never say huge..


----------



## mulder01

daryldixon said:


> I have a good DAC and Amp on my 2 ch system and have no problem hearing a difference with cables . I'm sure it would be easier wth a hp rig . Also depends on the cables some don't have a big change in sound and some are huge .


 
  
 If you joined head fi to say this then you must feel quite strongly about it - So can you elaborate and tell us what components are in your system and specifically what interconnects have you found to be best in your system, and what is the terrible "night" comparison cable?  
  
 I mean, the manufacturer of these headphones is primarily a cable company so I would have assumed that the cable would be something they could do right.  I dunno.  Just askin'.  Making conversation.  No trolling intended.


----------



## AlanYWM

xecuter said:


> I'm of the opinion that a lot of these night and day changes are massively overstated. Changing interconnects in my experience has only really caused subtle changes. Maybe night and day between an unshielded $5 cable and a properly shielded cable, but comparing silver litz and copper on my k10s and on my HP rig was noticeable, but I would never say huge..


 
  
 The problem with audio is that we all hear things differently. Secondly, we have different standards as to what constitute "day and night" differences.
  
 In my experience, some cables do sound different (not necessarily good) and I can hear them quite clearly. The thing I learnt regarding cables is that an expensive cable need not necessarily mean a nice sounding cable. An inexpensive cable may be able to sound just as good as one that cost several times more. This is why it is always best to listen to the cable before making a decision. Unfortunately, many of us don't have that opportunity and have to rely on reviews to make that decision.


----------



## m17xr2b

I think I may have a bad cable with the Abyss. The music was never consistent, sounding from ok to dark, the treble would be one note, piercing or not be present at all. I tested this across several amplifiers and dacs to rule out any other components. The HE1000 would have layers upon layers of detail compared to the one note of the Abyss. This contradicted everything I have been reading. I assumed the fit was the issue and blamed it for the inconsistency.
 After I sold the HEK I reterminated the Norne Zoetic cable as I wanted something shorter and a lot more flexible. The stock cable may be great but it's a pita to work with.
 When I first listened with the zoetic I could not believe the difference, everything was perfect, the treble was easily better than the HEK or HD800SD and had all the information intact especially for songs I know very well. I may try to build some sort of adapter to test the JPS cable with the HD800 if they don't get sold in the meantime.
  
 The last few days really showed what the Abyss is capable of. The first thing that comes to mind is a super HEK. The low end is just unbelievable and it actually does sound like subwoofer bass with the right tubes. The midrange I especially like for it's texture and presence. Comfort is better than anything I have had before. Even the HD800 feels like it clamps too hard compared to the Abyss which feels like it's floating. Yesterday I had the Abyss on for over 8 hours without any issues. This cannot be said for the HEK.
  
 Currently I'm using the Stratus with great success, it easily bested the GSX-MK2 but I'm now contemplating getting the Moon 600i. If the Moon is better that the Stratus I would be sad to know I have to sell it.


----------



## potkettleblack

Reading the above is like finding out the ex I'm still in love with is now pleasuring another man.
  
 (m17xr2b is the guy I sold my Abyss to)


----------



## Beolab

m17xr2b said:


> I think I may have a bad cable with the Abyss. The music was never consistent, sounding from ok to dark, the treble would be one note, piercing or not be present at all. I tested this across several amplifiers and dacs to rule out any other components. The HE1000 would have layers upon layers of detail compared to the one note of the Abyss. This contradicted everything I have been reading. I assumed the fit was the issue and blamed it for the inconsistency.
> After I sold the HEK I reterminated the Norne Zoetic cable as I wanted something shorter and a lot more flexible. The stock cable may be great but it's a pita to work with.
> When I first listened with the zoetic I could not believe the difference, everything was perfect, the treble was easily better than the HEK or HD800SD and had all the information intact especially for songs I know very well. I may try to build some sort of adapter to test the JPS cable with the HD800 if they don't get sold in the meantime.
> 
> ...




Go for the Moon 600i with the latest Firmware, that is a winner, i have sold the rest of my amps ( 10 high end amps sold during a short time )


----------



## Happy Camper

Don't have this headphone but with the HE-6, the 600i was the best I've heard out of a headphone.

Cable wise, I had done some swaps of ICs and a few headphone cables with subtle changes. I'd say they were like a tone control. But I was fortunate to review three pair of pure silver ICs from SilverFi. Mr. Sezai Saktanber is passionate about his music and got into making his own silver. I was stunned at the difference between some copper xlr cables and the Silverfi Rumi. It was like my music was remastered. And these were not his best by a long shot but rather a $500 pair.


----------



## mulder01

happy camper said:


> Don't have this headphone but with the HE-6, the 600i was the best I've heard out of a headphone.
> 
> Cable wise, I had done some swaps of ICs and a few headphone cables with subtle changes. I'd say they were like a tone control. But I was fortunate to review three pair of pure silver ICs from SilverFi. Mr. Sezai Saktanber is passionate about his music and *got into making his own silver.* I was stunned at the difference between some copper xlr cables and the Silverfi Rumi. It was like my music was remastered. And these were not his best by a long shot but rather a $500 pair.


 
  
 Really?
 He can make silver more pure than somewhere like a mint?
 Or is that even the intention? Maximum purity?  I'm not even sure what the aim is there


----------



## cladane

Hello,
  
 Quote:


beolab said:


> Go for the Moon 600i with the latest Firmware, that is a winner, i have sold the rest of my amps ( 10 high end amps sold during a short time )


 
 Must be 25W into 40 ohms. How do you connect the Abyss to the 600i and are you able to control such a power into the cans ??


----------



## Beolab

Yes it delivers about 23,7 watts att full power @ 46 Ohms, *But* you do not play at full volume and you will never use more than about 5-6 watts according to Moon them self
 ( volume 50 with 0 Gain, with 3v signal input) , and the moon 600i deliver pure class A drive in the 1-5 watt range. 

Another great benefit with the Dual Mono 600i or other bigger high end speaker amps is the huge A current drive ( if we look at the power cube measuring at any given impedance resistance it does have a vey fine squared measuring cube) and grunt that can control the diaphragms in another dimension than small less current weak amps are able to do. 

Then you have one of the "worlds" most sensitive / fine stepped optical volume control with 530 step attenuator to fine tune the volume level, or you also have the option to turn of the Pre-Amp and only use it as an Power Amp with your DAVE or other fine DAC with digital bit-perfect Pre-amp. 

The outturn of this amp is the most liquid and controlled sound with a touch of warmth/rich tone , and the dynamics are immense and visceral.
The transparency is like 93-95% of what DAVE give you on direct drive with your headphones, but the Moon 600i extend the dynamics and richness to another level. With DAVE alone you do get a slight slight more clarity / layering / timing most because if the lower noise floor spec of DAVE , but it is very slight just.


----------



## m17xr2b

I will pick up the Moon 600i tomorrow and see how it does. I have some headphone cables to repurpose and connect the Abyss to the amp .I found with cables having some basic soldering skills saves you a lot of money.


----------



## cladane

beolab said:


> The outturn of this amp is the most liquid and controlled sound with a touch of warmth/rich tone , and the dynamics are immense and visceral.
> The transparency is like 93-95% of what DAVE give you on direct drive with your headphones, but the Moon 600i extend the dynamics and richness to another level. With DAVE alone you do get a slight slight more clarity / layering / timing most because if the lower noise floor spec of DAVE , but it is very slight just.


 
 Thanks @Beolab for the return.
 My question would be about other headphones like LCD4, Utopia and not only the Abyss. How does the 600i behave with sensible headphones  for example ? Is this amp more Abyss centric ??
  
@m17xr2b , surprising that the Stratus drives correctly the Abyss with enough dynamics, fast transients like in Symphonies.
 Interesting to read your comment about the 600i.
 How it does with HD800 or HEK ...??
  
 Claude


----------



## m17xr2b

cladane said:


> @m17xr2b , surprising that the Stratus drives correctly the Abyss with enough dynamics, fast transients like in Symphonies.
> Interesting to read your comment about the 600i.
> How it does with HD800 or HEK ...??
> 
> Claude


 
 The Stratus puts out 2W into the Abyss so power is not a problem but you do need to use the right power tubes. The best pairing is the Ken Rad 2A3 which are more solid state sounding than any of the others and I decided to go with the best SS amp insted of using tubes that sound like SS.
 The Stratus does a very good job with the HD800 and HEK with the right tubes better that the GSX MK-2 except for deep bass but the Stratus has more punch.
 Dynamics and transients are not even a challenge for a well designed 2A3 amp. O Fortuna with the Stratus and Abyss sound exceptional and I will be able to compare it to the live performance as I'm going to a concert this week. What surprised me the first time I listened to it was the drums, the Abyss disappears and the drum impact and presence feels lifelike as you feel the air moving. I guess the low end performance of the Abyss gives it an edge over all the other headphones with this sort of music. 
 The HD800 while a great performer does not produce the same level of realism as you always know you're listening to headphones with their limited depth.


----------



## cladane

Thank you @m17xr2b and choosing the tubes seems to be the way to go with the Stratus. The point is that it specializes the amp for the headphones a bit.

About the 600i, I will read your comments.
I was spoken also of the Ayre QX-5 Twenty. Some Headfier listened to it with headphones, Abyss, LCD4... ?


----------



## Happy Camper

mulder01 said:


> Really?
> 
> He can make silver more pure than somewhere like a mint?
> Or is that even the intention? Maximum purity?  I'm not even sure what the aim is there


http://www.silverfi.com/ Read his introduction. I can say I heard quite a difference between some copper Emotiva xlr and his.


----------



## Beolab

cladane said:


> Thanks @Beolab for the return.
> My question would be about other headphones like LCD4, Utopia and not only the Abyss. How does the 600i behave with sensible headphones  for example ? Is this amp more Abyss centric ??
> 
> @m17xr2b
> ...




Claude: 

I can only confirm that the LCD-4 is a superb match for the 600i , the synergy is in line with the abyss, and the really shine! 

Then, i can not guarantee how the 600i measure @ 200Ohms impedance spec wise thug, but it does shine like a star! 

I got some more sensitive headphones in my possession, i have not tried them out just because they got phono plug connections, but if i am free to estimate i think they should work out very good, because the amp volume and the power curve is very linear and is a slow starter, so you can go more gently with your sensitive headphones. Then you can pre set the max volume and lower the gain individually from -12db to + 10db+ with 0.1 steps, for extreme fine tuning. 

But i can not guarantee that it will work.


----------



## Hansotek

My review for the DanaCable Lazuli Reference cable for the Abyss is live today. I know a few people were looking for cables, so here it is:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1116/Danacable_Lazuli_Reference_Headphone_Cables_Review.htm
  
 Also, the distributer (Gingko Audio) has offered a $150 off coupon code as part of the manufacturer's response to the review (at the bottom of the article).


----------



## Beolab

Street setup  



"Where did the DAVE DAC , car battery and the 25 kg amp go ?? "

-Oh itś 2016, i forgot


----------



## mulder01

You're gonna need a big pocket just for the adapters!
  
 I am gonna try the fiio and paw gold options and if either is good, I'll get an abyss cable terminated to 2.5 balanced I reckon.


----------



## Beolab

This small 2.1 volt peace can actually drive the abyss, and you get a glimps of the great sound, but it is just from very low to medium low, then it starts to clip on full vol, and that can be devastating for the diaphragms. 

But on the secondly last step the Red produce a very nuanced and fluid sound, with a little bass actually, but it does not shave of the last layers in transparency. 

I know the Apple CCK adapter is not the best either, so i have ordered the new Apple CCK USB 3 adapter that Audioquest claims will have a better more clear sound, than the old one and you can charge your phone at the same time. 

Will use this Red in my Bmw and for other headphones.


----------



## m17xr2b

Today is a good day:


----------



## Beolab

m17xr2b said:


> Today is a good day:




Congrats! 

Did you find a nice pre owned one or did you buy a new one 600i? 

How do you like the sound so far?


----------



## cladane

beolab said:


> Congrats!
> 
> Did you find a nice pre owned one or did you buy a new one 600i?
> 
> How do you like the sound so far?


 

 Hello here,
  
 How much VA total power the 600i requires ?
  
 About the Class A 5W, is it into 8 ohms speakers load or to any load ?
  
 Congrats @m17xr2b. Waiting for your listening returns...


----------



## Happy Camper

m17xr2b
I noticed a 3d like presentation from this amp. Look forward to your impressions.


----------



## m17xr2b

I got the Moon pre owned. It was quite an interesting experience. I drove about 100 miles to the seller and just as I arrived my car broke down so I had to call a recovery service. While I waited I got to know the seller and listened to a lot of songs I knew on this system.
 He had a pair of big wilson speakers hooked to a massive Plinius sa reference power amp. Suffice to say it was quite an experience, the best music I ever listened to and an eye opener on what a good system can do and what I was missing with headphones. We did use the Moon as well and I understood what it was capable of.
 I have only listened for a couple of hours to the moon and Abyss as I had to reterminate a norne draug v2 cable to plug the abyss and work took most of my time away.
 I never knew you lost so much information with an amp. From what I know the whole point of an amp is to just amplify the signal so all amps should be equal to a certain degree but the Moon is the best amplifier I have ever heard for headphones. The GSX MK2 is not even close and even the Cavalli prototype cannot touch it. 
 I have not compared it the stratus yet but somehow I don't think I need to as I feel it's better even in the mids. I will have to do some more A/B listening to see if it's worth keeping the stratus.
 Now for the sound the first impression I got is that it's very very close to the speaker setup I listened to at the seller with a lot of similarities and I think his setup was about 50K. I now understand why people say the Abyss sounds like speakers. Mind you I still slightly prefer the speaker setup I heard at the seller but the Abyss gives you speaker sound in a convenient package and at a lot cheaper price.
 I always tried to find a setup that was exciting and pleasant to listen to, chasing the last 5% was never my goal and I don't even know how to describe or even identify subtle changes in sound. The Stratus and HEK was close to my goal but the Moon and Abyss feels endgame. 
 The most important thing for me it that there is no harshness in the treble, very easy to listen to with a lot of detail. The low end is most impressive and yes it does sound like sub woofer bass and not typical headphone bass even compared to the LCD4 or HEK. Mids are clear and big. It's not that they are forward but voices easily fill the whole soundstage and not just concentrated in a small spot. 
 The music flows easily, never feeling like it's out of breath or getting congested in complex passages. Most surprising is the musicality of the moon. I always preferred tube amps ever since the Crack over SS because I felt they were more musical but the moon is every bit and more.
  
 I will have to see over the weekend how things progress.


----------



## Happy Camper

Oh the joy of rediscovering the next reference upgrade with your music.


----------



## cladane

m17xr2b said:


> I got the Moon pre owned. It was quite an interesting experience. I drove about 100 miles to the seller and just as I arrived my car broke down so I had to call a recovery service. While I waited I got to know the seller and listened to a lot of songs I knew on this system.
> He had a pair of big wilson speakers hooked to a massive Plinius sa reference power amp. Suffice to say it was quite an experience,
> 
> The music flows easily, never feeling like it's out of breath or getting congested in complex passages. Most surprising is the musicality of the moon. I always preferred tube amps ever since the Crack over SS because I felt they were more musical but the moon is every bit and more.
> ...


 
 Thank you @m17xr2b for such a living comment 
 Putting aside the Abyss, how would do an HD800 or Utopia, I mean more sensitive or very sensitive headphones, with this amp ?
 Do you think the 600i is more an amp 'Abyss specific' ??
  
 Claude.


----------



## Beolab

m17xr2b said:


> I got the Moon pre owned. It was quite an interesting experience. I drove about 100 miles to the seller and just as I arrived my car broke down so I had to call a recovery service. While I waited I got to know the seller and listened to a lot of songs I knew on this system.
> He had a pair of big wilson speakers hooked to a massive Plinius sa reference power amp. Suffice to say it was quite an experience, the best music I ever listened to and an eye opener on what a good system can do and what I was missing with headphones. We did use the Moon as well and I understood what it was capable of.
> I have only listened for a couple of hours to the moon and Abyss as I had to reterminate a norne draug v2 cable to plug the abyss and work took most of my time away.
> I never knew you lost so much information with an amp. From what I know the whole point of an amp is to just amplify the signal so all amps should be equal to a certain degree but the Moon is the best amplifier I have ever heard for headphones. The GSX MK2 is not even close and even the Cavalli prototype cannot touch it.
> ...




Very nice story to read about your purchase!

I dont know if its all my fault you bought the 600i?, and i just want to say that i am so happy for you, and you probably own one of the finest amps with the best synergy for Abyss, LCD-4 , He1k money can buy! Congrats! ( i am certen Utopia / HD800 also will work like a charm with this amp, because it is so transparent)


----------



## Beolab

cladane said:


> Hello here,
> 
> How much VA total power the 600i requires ?
> 
> ...


----------



## cladane

beolab said:


>


 
 How much power out of the wall under 240V (I read 45W idle) ?


----------



## Beolab

cladane said:


> How much power out of the wall under 240V (I read 45W idle) ?




I don't really understand your question sorry?


----------



## cladane

beolab said:


> I don't really understand your question sorry?


 
 Well, the power called by the amp.
 For my Egoista 845 I read 391VA on the PS Audio P5.


----------



## Beolab

cladane said:


> Well, the power called by the amp.
> For my Egoista 845 I read 391VA on the PS Audio P5.




Sorry i don't have that info, why do you find it interesting to know?


----------



## mulder01

cladane said:


> Well, the power called by the amp.
> For my Egoista 845 I read 391VA on the PS Audio P5.


 
  
 Jeez, that'll warm the room up!


----------



## mulder01

joe skubinski said:


> Marjorie and Jude pulled off an amazing show!
> 
> PAW Gold Diana Edition is currently only available in the USA through http://www.TheEvolutionOfSound.com
> 
> Diana will also have a custom amp module for the Fiio X7 made exclusively for her that will also drive the AB-1266.


 
  
 Do we have an ETA on the X7 amp add-on?


----------



## cladane

mulder01 said:


> Jeez, that'll warm the room up!


 
 Damned true !
 I'm living east France, close to the Switzerland border, in winter temperatures are between -30 and -10 Celsius.
 Read also that the BHSE not really cold.
  
 I was calculating the total power consumption to see if the wire in the wall won't burn with two Watts hungry amps.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

mulder01 said:


> Do we have an ETA on the X7 amp add-on?




Not yet... We have prototypes, latest is about 0.70 watts. Sounds pretty good. It being Android based, versatility is crazy for a portable player. Do you own one?

The PAW Gold Diana is the best portable anything I've heard with Abyss, like it was made for it, three times price of the X7 though. No bells and whistles, just a firmware driven, hardwired high-end player. 
You know the rules in high-end audio, simple is better.


----------



## Beolab

cladane said:


> Damned true !
> I'm living east France, close to the Switzerland border, in winter temperatures are between -30 and -10 Celsius.
> Read also that the BHSE not really cold.
> 
> I was calculating the total power consumption to see if the wire in the wall won't burn with two Watts hungry amps.


----------



## nassq8

Rare opportunity
  
 http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649308872-simaudio-moon-evolution-600i-integrated-amp/


----------



## Happy Camper

nassq8 said:


> Rare opportunity
> 
> http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649308872-simaudio-moon-evolution-600i-integrated-amp/


already sold.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Has anyone experimented with a big amp with their Abyss?  By 'big' I mean something from Mark Levinson, Krell, D'agostino or anything else as equally into the stratosphere?  
  
 Just out of interest.


----------



## ufospls2

X


----------



## draytonklammer

Been a good week, or two since I have had time to listen to these.
  
 Every time I put them on and listen is like the first time. Just amazing.


----------



## mulder01

joe skubinski said:


> Not yet... We have prototypes, latest is about 0.70 watts. Sounds pretty good. It being Android based, versatility is crazy for a portable player. Do you own one?
> 
> The PAW Gold Diana is the best portable anything I've heard with Abyss, like it was made for it, three times price of the X7 though. No bells and whistles, just a firmware driven, hardwired high-end player.
> You know the rules in high-end audio, simple is better.


 
  
 Ah ok cool, so it's still a while off yet.  But yeah, I asked because I noticed the price difference... I figured even if I had to buy the X7 amp add on and take it to somewhere/someone who had an X7, it wouldn't be too expensive an exercise if I didn't love it.  Plus since the Diana Paw Gold is US only and I can't try it here, I'd have to get one off Amazon or something and hope for the best.  But for $3k AUD, I'm not sure I want to risk it... Got any loaners laying around?


----------



## Cortazar

-> bigfatpaulie
 I do. I hear my abyss, (which i buoght for the second time) directly from my ayon crossfire. 30 WAT of pure single ended triode, and it is awesome. better then my sennheiser orpheus and my stax 009. It is unneccesery to write about highs, bass and mids. It is a music . By the way, when using hifiman adapter it is only 95% of this SQ.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Fascinating!!  Thank you.
  
 What kind of amp are you using with your estats for comparison?  The Ayon is a stunning amp.  I have not had the pleasure of hearing one.
  
 I think I will be on my second pair too pretty soon   Live and learn, am I right?
  
 Have you tried any other top shelf amps for a comparison to the Ayon?  I wonder how it would compare to something like an Yoshino amp.


----------



## astrostar59

cortazar said:


> -> bigfatpaulie
> I do. I hear my abyss, (which i buoght for the second time) directly from my ayon crossfire. 30 WAT of pure single ended triode, and it is awesome. better then my sennheiser orpheus and my stax 009. It is unneccesery to write about highs, bass and mids. It is a music . By the way, when using hifiman adapter it is only 95% of this SQ.


 

 What amp are you powering the 009 with? Makes a BIG difference.


----------



## Cortazar

I have heard my abyss with bryston BHA-1, cavalli liquid gold and eddie current 445 (i have owned all 3 of them). Directly via speaker output from sun audio 300BSE, air tight atm-300 (owned them as well) and right now with ayon crossfire which is much better then the previous one that i named.
 I hear stax 009 and my sennheiser orpheus from ayon crossfire via LST (Lundahl transformer). I have owned stax 727 woo audio WES, and again LST+ayon is better. my friend who ownes the same combination (Ayon crossfire - LST) compared it to blue hawaii too with the same result.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Okay, I just called a company that "sells cables" that we all know so well that sells Ayon.  Reception didn't know the brand and didn't know where to transfer me.  Then I spoke to a fellow who knew very little about the (he had only heard it for 20 minutes at a show) and had no idea how or why anyone would want to use headphones...  Not the best expereince.
  
 So I called Ayon North America and spoke a very nice gentleman.  He was so kind as to offer to fly me down to hear the amp - now that's service!!  That said, apparently there is going to be a dealer here in Toronto in short time so I am happy avoiding the hassle of traveling 3 time zones and waiting a month or so to audition one.  He did also mention that the HA-3 - their headphone amp - was very capable and may very well be worth an audition despite the price difference.  I didn't know the HA-3 even existed.  I would be interested in giving it a listen.
  
 Anyway, the world of big amps for our little Abyss is very interesting.  
  
@Cortazar Is there anything more you can share about the pairing and or the signature of the Crossfire?  Anything would be appreciated.


----------



## ufospls2

I'm currently listening to the Abyss with my Milo from Wells Audio. Truly special and impressive for $1699. If anyone is reading this and wants a more affordable amp for the Abyss, you could do far worse than the Milo at any price, not just at $1699. I like it more than a few amps I have heard costing quite a lot more. Check out the Milo thread in the amp section of the board for more detailed impressions, but it really is great!
  
 I would also like to thank Joe @ JPS Labs . My right side driver died due to a puncture. How it got the puncture I will never know as I bought the headphones used but that is not the point. I shipped them to JPS labs, and upon receiving them, they were inspected, cleaned, and repaired, with a brand new driver. The next day they were shipped out, and the day after that I received them back. Talk about fast service! It was important for me to get them back quickly as I will be out of the country and needed to be here to receive them and JPS Labs made sure that happened. Joe said they have an archive of drivers for the Abyss, so a matching one was chosen as far as I know, which is pretty cool. I had to pay for the driver replacement, which was totally fine as it was user inflicted, NOT a problem with design. I spoke to Joe on the phone about the problem and he is a very helpful and friendly person. He puts up with all my emails and questions. On top of the very fast return service, JPS Labs replaced the mini XLR connectors on my Abyss's cable as I was worried there was a loose connection. Thank you Joe!
  
 This might be placebo and my mind playing tricks on me, but the Abyss seem to sound even better than they did before the refurbishment and new driver. They are still my favourite headphones, this has just reaffirmed that to me.


----------



## Cortazar

Concerning the safety i have exchanged some emails with ayon audio and they anticipate no problems with using abyss (46Ohm) with 8Ohm output from crossfire. The AA62B Tube is based on 300B so it is very slightly on the warm side. It has the midrange and stereo scene of 300B SET with plenty of air but bass and highs are also outstanding. As i have wrote it was much better then my kondo souga. The only thing better on souga was the way it looked like 
 I am using it with adapter banana- XLR 3 pin from forzaaudio works.


----------



## cladane

Hello Abyss fans,
 Quote:


bigfatpaulie said:


> Has anyone experimented with a big amp with their Abyss?  By 'big' I mean something from Mark Levinson, Krell, D'agostino or anything else as equally into the stratosphere?
> 
> Just out of interest.


 
 I listen to my Abyss through the VIVA Egoista 845 (feeded by the TotalDAC D1-Four) and you won't find a more transparent setup and better dynamic than many SS amps.
 You can hear the slight coloration of the headphones in the medium (violin play).
 Awesome bass and openness. Great for Symphonies.
  
 I wouldn't go with speakers amp since the output transformers are calculated for headphones which behavior is different from speakers (impedance variations, at least for electrodynamics).
  
 Joe dislikes the Egoista because of the astonishing power which he said burned the two drivers of my Abyss, voiding the warranty.
 I'm not convinced with that judgment but he changed the drivers and I can say like @ufospls2 that the headphones sound much better than before.
 I'm a good customer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and luckily the French importer paid for the 1000$USD asked.
  
 Recommended Headphones.
  
 I have ordered the Ayon HA-3 but two French importers stopped working with the brand because of reliability problems. My headphones reseller got afraid and I can't be served.
  
 Just my personal returns for forumers.
  
 Claude.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

cladane said:


> I listen to my Abyss through the VIVA Egoista 845 (feeded by the TotalDAC D1-Four) and you won't find a more transparent setup and better dynamic than many SS amps.
> You can hear the slight coloration of the headphones in the medium (violin play).
> Awesome bass and openness. Great for Symphonies.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I've heard this before from some very respectable amp makers: that headphone amps are designed differently than speaker amps to address the needs of headphones and the mixing the two (speaker amps + headphones) isn't best solution.
  
 That said, some of the best headphone amps ARE speaker amps: like the EC Studio.  There is also the ubiquitous Ragnarok (not that it's a great amp or not, just that it is a speaker amp).  
  
 It's interesting that Joe said that the 845 is 'too powerful' for the Abyss.  I can appreciate that driving the headphones too loud can cause issue, but I think most headphones amps could actually blow most headphones if you just cranked it and left it for dead.  I could not find specs for the 845 aside one review that rated it at 15 wpc.  Into what resistance, I don't however, so who knows what it outputs to the Abyss.  Either way, it is probably well worth an audition if I can find one.
  
 It seems that the two a popular pairing.
  
 I have also heard about Ayon having reliability issues and that certainly is a concern.  The fellow I spoke to at Ayon yesterday addressed with the simply, "That was some of out older products, our new stuff is very reliable."  So it's hard to say.
  
 It's also odd that both of you found your headphones to sound better after driver replacement.  To me I can only see it as one of two things.
  
  A) There are new, better drivers out there now and the two of you now have them installed.
  
 or
  
 B) The drivers slower degrade and sound worse over time.  Having them replaced reset this.
  
 I'm not sure I like either possibility...


----------



## cladane

I would say that the EC Studio or Woo 234 , etc... are ALSO speakers amps. More a way to sell to people living in a confined space since you will need very efficient speakers and I wouldn't bet on the sound quality (for a confirmed speaker audiophile point of view).
 Mixing genre isn't top.
  
 The Egoista is 15w into 40 ohms. Mr Schembri decided to erase the characteristics when my problem popped out.
 But I agree with you that this amp won't kill more headphone drivers than another one.
 The fact is that it gives the Abyss a to be heared dynamic.
  
 I don't think the drivers of the Abyss degrade with time since mine had 9 months.
  
 Claude


----------



## bigfatpaulie

cladane said:


> I don't think the drivers of the Abyss degrade with time since mine had 9 months.
> 
> Claude


 
  
 Thanks.
  
 What you do think is the cause of new drivers sound better?


----------



## cladane

bigfatpaulie said:


> Thanks.
> 
> What you do think is the cause of new drivers sound better?


----------



## mulder01

bigfatpaulie said:


> It's also odd that both of you found your headphones to sound better after driver replacement.  To me I can only see it as one of two things.
> 
> A) There are new, better drivers out there now and the two of you now have them installed.
> 
> ...


 
  
 C) You live without the Abyss for a week or so while it gets fixed and listen to other headphones in your inventory and get used to them.  Then by the time your Abyss comes back, you forgot how good it was, so it seems better than before.
  
 I only own an Abyss and after a while it just sounds "normal" because you are getting what you always got.  Everytime I go to a headphone store (like maybe once a year) to try out new products, the Abyss sounds better there because your brain retunes itself to expect less fidelity after listening to inferior products.  IMO.


----------



## matthewhypolite

mulder01 said:


> C) You live without the Abyss for a week or so while it gets fixed and listen to other headphones in your inventory and get used to them.  Then by the time your Abyss comes back, you forgot how good it was, so it seems better than before.
> 
> I only own an Abyss and after a while it just sounds "normal" because you are getting what you always got.  Everytime I go to a headphone store (like maybe once a year) to try out new products, the Abyss sounds better there because your brain retunes itself to expect less fidelity after listening to inferior products.  IMO.


 
 Count me as one of those who found the Abyss sounded alot better after a driver replacement. It sounded very much improved.
 But i think @mulder01 is right.
 There are times im away from my audio rig for a week or more, or when i listen to other cans for a while. And when i feel the urge for the Abyss, and finally put them back on, im amazed every time at just how good they are.
 I'm looking forward to comparing them against the Utopia, about 3 more weeks for that comparison


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Fair enough.  I can certainly appreciate that.  I had a friend who, years and years ago, owned two cars: an old crummy pickup truck and brand new BMW Z3 M (see, years ago!).  Anyway, he drove the truck primarily so that the Z3 wouldn't become 'the norm' and remained special everytime he drove it.


----------



## ufospls2

mulder01 said:


> C) You live without the Abyss for a week or so while it gets fixed and listen to other headphones in your inventory and get used to them.  Then by the time your Abyss comes back, you forgot how good it was, so it seems better than before.
> 
> I only own an Abyss and after a while it just sounds "normal" because you are getting what you always got.  Everytime I go to a headphone store (like maybe once a year) to try out new products, the Abyss sounds better there because your brain retunes itself to expect less fidelity after listening to inferior products.  IMO.


 
 Probably the above. In my case, it could be that I had been listening to a punctured driver for 8 months. Not sure. haha.


----------



## cladane

mulder01 said:


> C) You live without the Abyss for a week or so while it gets fixed and listen to other headphones in your inventory and get used to them.  Then by the time your Abyss comes back, you forgot how good it was, so it seems better than before.
> 
> I only own an Abyss and after a while it just sounds "normal" because you are getting what you always got.  Everytime I go to a headphone store (like maybe once a year) to try out new products, the Abyss sounds better there because your brain retunes itself to expect less fidelity after listening to inferior products.  IMO.


 

 Wow ! Abyss-addict ?
 For sure 100% suiting your music genre.
  
 Those are awesome headphones but for the sake of completeness how they sound doesn't encompass the entire Music world and fidelity which leaves room to other headphones.
 Fortunately


----------



## mulder01

cladane said:


> Wow ! Abyss-addict ?
> For sure 100% suiting your music genre.
> 
> Those are awesome headphones but for the sake of completeness how they sound doesn't encompass the entire Music world and fidelity which leaves room to other headphones.
> Fortunately


 
  
 I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything - I listen to all sorts of music and haven't ever put on another pair of headphones and thought they were better at any genre.  In fact, I thought they were all significantly behind.
  
 Full disclosure though - I've not given the 009 a proper listen yet (only about 30 seconds of Hotel California on a $50k setup which was admittedly very good) and haven't heard the Utopia yet either, but by all reviews I have read, I don't think I'm going to like it.  Though I do like Focal's speakers, so I'm not ruling it out as a possibility until I hear it.  
  
 I thought the HEK and LCD-4 were okay attempts at getting close to the Abyss (maybe 75%), but that's about it.  
  
 The HD800 sucks the life out of music for me.  
  
 The $55/50k USD offerings from Sennheiser and HFM are not on my radar at all no matter how good they are - I can't justify a year's wages for something that I'd use maybe an hour a week... I even felt bad about buying the Abyss...  People are dying in the world and I am spending $6k on headphones...
  
 Tried a bunch of more reasonably priced flagships (or former flagships) and a bunch of flagship IEMs with the same underwhelming results.
  
 As far as I understand, we all hear differently, so maybe my ear/brain's natural frequency response and the Abyss's complement each other nicely.


----------



## cladane

Hello @mulder01,
 Quote:


mulder01 said:


> I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything - I listen to all sorts of music and haven't ever put on another pair of headphones and thought they were better at any genre.  In fact, I thought they were all significantly behind.
> 
> Full disclosure though - I've not given the 009 a proper listen yet (only about 30 seconds of Hotel California on a $50k setup which was admittedly very good) and haven't heard the Utopia yet either, but by all reviews I have read, I don't think I'm going to like it.  Though I do like Focal's speakers, so I'm not ruling it out as a possibility until I hear it.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for your really human and argumented comments.
 Even at three times your year's wages you are right about pleasure expenses and real life condition living in countries where each month thousands of war refugees are coming in piling up in makeshift tents before being dispatched all around the country.
 Nice to see that forumers are mindful.
  
 On a technical point of view, I jumped on your input because of Abyss are kings of openness, bass rendering, speed, but can't be said having much fidelity.
 The upper medium (2-5khz) is recessed (grating trebles) with an 'in front' medium (around 1khz) (voice, violin) giving some softness and, being very fast (a must driven by the Egoista), the Abyss won't get bunged up.
 A sound engineer will use an EQ LCD-X or non EQ LCD4 (linear, wonderful mediums). Speaking of fidelity better considering the Utopia giving up the airy SR009.
  


> so maybe my ear/brain's natural frequency response and the Abyss's complement each other nicely


 
 It's a respectable reason.
  
 Claude.


----------



## mulder01

cladane said:


> On a technical point of view, I jumped on your input because of Abyss are kings of openness, bass rendering, speed, but can't be said having much fidelity.
> The upper medium (2-5khz) is recessed (grating trebles) with an 'in front' medium (around 1khz) (voice, violin) giving some softness and, being very fast (a must driven by the Egoista), the Abyss won't get bunged up.
> A sound engineer will use an EQ LCD-X or non EQ LCD4 (linear, wonderful mediums). Speaking of fidelity better considering the Utopia giving up the airy SR009.


 
  
 I realise that the available measurements (which are questionable IMO) don't show the Abyss as being the most 'correct' headphone you can get, but it's the 'highest fidelity'_ to my ears_.  Maybe for the reason I mentioned before?  Maybe my ears are more sensitive to a frequency band that the Abyss has a dip in so it cancels out?  Maybe I find a certain type of distortion that the Abyss has more pleasing than a type of distortion given by another headphone? - in the same way that some people will prefer the distortion produced by a tube amp rather than a more 'correct' solid state.  Or in the same way that some people prefer the sound of vinyl even though the measurements tell us that a digital copy is far superior?  I'm not sure WHY I love it in technical terms, but it's the 'highest fidelity/ most detailed without fatigue/ most correct' _to my ears_ and does it's job of giving me the highest level of listening enjoyment (the reason we listen to music, right?), even if someone has a graph that says I should like something else better.  If that makes sense...
  
 So in answer to your original question: Yes.  Abyss addict


----------



## Hansotek

mulder01 said:


> I realise that the available measurements (which are questionable IMO) don't show the Abyss as being the most 'correct' headphone you can get, but it's the 'highest fidelity' _to my ears_.  Maybe for the reason I mentioned before?  Maybe my ears are more sensitive to a frequency band that the Abyss has a dip in so it cancels out?  Maybe I find a certain type of distortion that the Abyss has more pleasing than a type of distortion given by another headphone? - in the same way that some people will prefer the distortion produced by a tube amp rather than a more 'correct' solid state.  Or in the same way that some people prefer the sound of vinyl even though the measurements tell us that a digital copy is far superior?  I'm not sure WHY I love it in technical terms, but it's the 'highest fidelity/ most detailed without fatigue/ most correct' _to my ears_ and does it's job of giving me the highest level of listening enjoyment (the reason we listen to music, right?), even if someone has a graph that says I should like something else better.  If that makes sense...
> 
> So in answer to your original question: Yes.  Abyss addict




I definitely question the accuracy of said measurements. For one, the Abyss has an incredibly long burn-in period. Two, fit makes a huge difference in terms of sound - it's hard enough help another person get a proper fit, much less a dummy that can't give you verbal feedback. Three, amplification makes a huge difference and inadequate power can result in some incredibly odd, harsh and uneven sound.

I don't care how well it measures, because I listen to music, not graphs. But still, the measurements on the Abyss don't really add up. I think they should be taken with a rather large grain of salt, personally.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

hansotek said:


> I definitely question the accuracy of said measurements. For one, the Abyss has an incredibly long burn-in period. Two, fit makes a huge difference in terms of sound - it's hard enough help another person get a proper fit, much less a dummy that can't give you verbal feedback. Three, amplification makes a huge difference and inadequate power can result in some incredibly odd, harsh and uneven sound.
> 
> I don't care how well it measures, because I listen to music, not graphs. But still, the measurements on the Abyss don't really add up. I think they should be taken with a rather large grain of salt, personally.


 
  
 I can accept that Abyss may measure poorly.  I can also accept that Monet didn't colour in the lines.  I had an English teacher that proclaimed said she would have failed e e cummings.  It's up the individual what they chose to hear and what to ignore.
  
 Others can let a machine tell them what sounds good: That's their prerogative.


----------



## draytonklammer

Yeah, I love the Abyss regardless of measurements.
  
 I have tried all "high-end" headphones besides the Orpheus and prefer the Abyss.
 For what I listen to (which is a little of everything) it always keeps me coming back with a smile.
  
 I also very much enjoy the great support brought by Joe. It's not only the product, but the support that makes this a complete experience.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Man it's been a while since I had to click multiple quotes.



cladane said:


> I listen to my Abyss through the VIVA Egoista 845 (feeded by the TotalDAC D1-Four) and you won't find a more transparent setup and better dynamic than many SS amps.
> You can hear the slight coloration of the headphones in the medium (violin play).
> Awesome bass and openness. Great for Symphonies.
> 
> ...




Neither the amp's available power nor the fact that you blew up your headphones has me in dislike of this amplifier. What I do not care for is an amplifier that exists to serve the high-end headphone community which has no respect nor safeguards in place for the device it was designed to drive. 

A tube amplifier that requires the user to understand a turn-on procedure, to manually warm the tubes before manually switching high voltage to their plates, when $10 in electronics would and should do this automatically, _and worse yet_ if done improperly by accident or otherwise can potentially cause damage to it or connected devices. An amplifier that has no DC offset output protection in case of fault, again no protection for the device under load. In short, in it's current state this is a dangerous amp to own and operate. It's users are blind to _such technicalities_, after all it's one of the most expensive headphone amplifiers available, it must be perfect. 

Such products come and go over the years. In their wake they cost customers, dealers, and manufacturers much lost time and money, much grief, and worse of all cause a change in the path they were on, for the worse. To sum it up, while I tried my best to quietly relate such concerns to all parties involved, you continue to blame the messenger.




cladane said:


> On a technical point of view, I jumped on your input because of Abyss are kings of openness, bass rendering, speed, but can't be said having much fidelity.
> The upper medium (2-5khz) is recessed (grating trebles) with an 'in front' medium (around 1khz) (voice, violin) giving some softness and, being very fast (a must driven by the Egoista), the Abyss won't get bunged up.
> A sound engineer will use an EQ LCD-X or non EQ LCD4 (linear, wonderful mediums). Speaking of fidelity better considering the Utopia giving up the airy SR009.




From a technical point of view, when you describe the sound of the AB-1266 as above, you are really describing the sound of your recording played through your system, not the sound of this headphone. If you do not like what you hear, don't blame the messenger, rather question/second-guess everything. At this level of resolution it's very difficult to know what causes what to sound like what, very difficult. It's quite common for the most experienced to create improper cause and effect relationships. It's also quite common to blame the last device placed into the system as the source of what they hear without continuously examining the entire chain. It's what I call the merry-go-round.

ALL of course IMO


----------



## cladane

mulder01 said:


> I realise that the available measurements (which are questionable IMO) don't show the Abyss as being the most 'correct' headphone you can get, but it's the 'highest fidelity' _to my ears_.  Maybe for the reason I mentioned before?  Maybe my ears are more sensitive to a frequency band that the Abyss has a dip in so it cancels out?  Maybe I find a certain type of distortion that the Abyss has more pleasing than a type of distortion given by another headphone? - in the same way that some people will prefer the distortion produced by a tube amp rather than a more 'correct' solid state.  Or in the same way that some people prefer the sound of vinyl even though the measurements tell us that a digital copy is far superior?  I'm not sure WHY I love it in technical terms, but it's the 'highest fidelity/ most detailed without fatigue/ most correct' _to my ears_ and does it's job of giving me the highest level of listening enjoyment (the reason we listen to music, right?), even if someone has a graph that says I should like something else better.  If that makes sense...
> 
> So in answer to your original question: Yes.  Abyss addict



I wasn't speaking of measurements but personal hearing. Measurements can be taken in consideration even if clearly the task is treaky. I remember the very informative discussion between Tyll Hertsens and Audeze in Innerfidelity.

The way you express your point of view I agree with your opinion.
Those headphones are worth such an addiction.


----------



## Nik

I'm still in love with this "crazy" headphones... If well amplified, this object is second to none... Wen I listen my Abyss I can't imagine something else better... Sometimes I feel more involved with this cans respect to my speakers setup... Simply incredibile...


----------



## cladane

Hello Joe,

Thank you for taking time to comment my post.
Like @mulder01 I appreciate your involvement in your baby.

I don't blame anything nor anybody.
Considering a high end audio company like VIVA which highest setup is priced 400 000€ manufacturing such a device like the Egoista to drive at their top the Abyss headphones should give you an idea of the high standing they estimate them.



> A tube amplifier that requires the user to understand a turn-on procedure, to manually warm the tubes before manually switching high voltage to their plates, when $10 in electronics would and should do this automatically, and worse yet if done improperly by accident or otherwise can potentially cause damage to it or connected devices. An amplifier that has no DC offset output protection in case of fault, again no protection for the device under load. In short, in it's current state this is a dangerous amp to own and operate. It's users are blind to such technicalities, after all it's one of the most expensive headphone amplifiers available, it must be perfect.
> 
> To sum it up, while I tried my best to quietly relate such concerns to all parties involved, you continue to blame the messenger.




Reading your comment could suggest someone that the Abyss aren't strong-built which isn't true since I never heard of an Egoista owner complaining about any incident with his Abyss.
So my argument was: and IF in my case there had been a manufacturing defect just with my set ?? Question ?

Well the warranty was voided and the bill reached 1000usd but we really have respectfully listened to your concerns.

What you are asking for is a space shuttle. I would like to quote you:


joe skubinski said:


> The PAW Gold Diana is the best portable anything I've heard with Abyss, like it was made for it, three times price of the X7 though. No bells and whistles, just a firmware driven, hardwired high-end player.
> 
> You know the rules in high-end audio, simple is better.



The Egoista was built like audiophiles are looking for: a transparent amplification straight line from input to output using VIVA skills on operating the 845.
Like I said owners aren't so unskilful since no other problem has been reported.



> From a technical point of view, when you describe the sound of the AB-1266 as above, you are really describing the sound of your recording played through your system, not the sound of this headphone. If you do not like what you hear, don't blame the messenger, rather question/second-guess everything.



I agree and this is a known issue of how a setup is built but it is your opinion about how the Abyss sound.

That said, hearing them colored or not the Abyss are a masterpiece of work delivering a great musical pleasure with the correct setup.

Claude.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Here is a picture of a simple turn-on delay board for a tube amp. This would replace the front panel toggle switch and wiring from power supply to the front panel then back. In essence this would be a cleaner design. They could easily add a second OP amp comparator which uses the same turn-on relay to disengage high voltage upon detecting a fault. Also, if a momentary power outage occurred the amp would not be sitting fully energized when the AC power returns, this circuit would automatically begin the turn-on sequence. 

Such protection circuits are not in-line with and have zero effect on the audio, they monitor only.


----------



## Xecuter

ufospls2 said:


> Probably the above. In my case, it could be that I had been listening to a punctured driver for 8 months. Not sure. haha.


 
  
 I was under the impression a  punctured driver would be very noticeable.
 What did it sound like? if it was a unilateral problem how'd it take so long to discover it? Was it because you thought the Taurus was misbehaving? 
  
 Not having a go.
 Genuinely curious.
  
 Al


----------



## ufospls2

xecuter said:


> I was under the impression a  punctured driver would be very noticeable.
> What did it sound like? if it was a unilateral problem how'd it take so long to discover it? Was it because you thought the Taurus was misbehaving?
> 
> Not having a go.
> ...


 
 Me too. I really don't know. All I know is they were opened up at the factory and supposedly it was obvious they had been opened and tampered with. I never opened them, or did anything to puncture the driver. The previous owner says the same. The headphones sounded fine, the right side just died suddenly and completely. I'm really not sure what happened at the end of the day, I'm just happy they are fixed and producing sound again.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

FYI, if anyone is interested in purchasing the Lotoo PAW Gold Diana Edition portable DSD music player and headphone amp, The Evolution of Sound is having a Pre Black Friday sale (USA only)...
http://www.theevolutionofsound.com/lotoo-paw-gold

I have this portable, has excellent sound quality, full, smooth, and detailed. It's a very well thought out piece. Works very well with Abyss, and given it's sound signature and adjustability would think it would be excellent for nearly any headphone/ IEM.


----------



## jlbrach

Do i understand correctly that the Lotoo PAW Gold Diana Edition portable DSD music player and headphone amp has 256Gb of internal memory as well as the SD card slot?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

From the TEOS website...

' 256 GB of SDXC storage (included), future expandable to a whopping 2000 GB (2 TB), absolutely necessary as music files become larger. '

Storage is via card only.


----------



## m17xr2b

For anyone wanting a cheap amp with the Abyss I highly recommend the project ember with a russian tube such as the 6N6P. It does a very good job and nothing to really complain about for the price.
 I am planning to buy a 300B preamp just to see if I can give the 600i a more colored warmer sound if the mood strikes me for such. I have tried my modded bottlehead quickie and for certain songs I like the result. The midrange is fuller but at the cost of some high and low end roll off. Clarity is still 95% there, not bad for a 99$ piece of kit. Somehow I have a feeling that the preamp in the 600 is the week link(yes I know I'm insane just suggesting it).
 The Abyss responds really well to my system upgrades or changes.


----------



## Beolab

m17xr2b said:


> For anyone wanting a cheap amp with the Abyss I highly recommend the project ember with a russian tube such as the 6N6P. It does a very good job and nothing to really complain about for the price.
> I am planning to buy a 300B preamp just to see if I can give the 600i a more colored warmer sound if the mood strikes me for such. I have tried my modded bottlehead quickie and for certain songs I like the result. The midrange is fuller but at the cost of some high and low end roll off. Clarity is still 95% there, not bad for a 99$ piece of kit. Somehow I have a feeling that the preamp in the 600 is the week link(yes I know I'm insane just suggesting it).
> The Abyss responds really well to my system upgrades or changes.




Nice tip of advice! 

Then you can turn of the pre-amp section in the 600i and use it as an true dual mono power amp instead, if you think that the pre-amp is the weakest link in the unit. 
Me personally do not find the Pre-Amp do so much harm to the signal actually from my listening A/B tests, but i use Mojo or DAVE often as the Pre-amp depending on how warm i want the sound.


----------



## Nik

Hi guy's, 
The Chord Dave arrived today to my door... 
The direct comparison head by head with the Goldmund HDA 2 started... 
My Abyss wants the very best... 

Keep in touch... 

Best regards! 
Nik


----------



## Beolab

nik said:


> Hi guy's,
> The Chord Dave arrived today to my door...
> The direct comparison head by head with the Goldmund HDA 2 started...
> My Abyss wants the very best...
> ...




Congratulation and welcome to the DAVE Club Nik! 

Very interesting to hear your impressions. 

Have a great listening day! 

/ Fredrik


----------



## Nik

Very first impression of the two contenders for the Abyss... 
The Goldmund like more hifi typical sound... 
The Dave more live sound you are inside of the music, more powerful 

Stay tuned... 
Nik


----------



## Beolab

nik said:


> Very first impression of the two contenders for the Abyss...
> The Goldmund like more hifi typical sound...
> The Dave more live sound you are inside of the music, more powerful
> 
> ...




Yes it is hard to beat the DAVE sound, and the drive in the DAVE is immense if you look at the spec:ed power vs the Goldmund or any other headphone / speaker amp


----------



## Nik

Today test of the two amplifiers with this CD (reedbook): Mercedes Sosa "Misa Criolla" 

Goldmund THA2 : simply perfect, nothing is out of the place...excellent live recording... 
Dave : no words... Just tears...


----------



## Nik

... Only one thing I don't like in the Dave... With 4 Bnc input, why no one rca? My Vitus SCD 025, (and many others players) do not have any Bnc digital output... So I need a connector rca - > Bnc to insert the cable in the Dave...


----------



## a1uc

Congrats on the Dave love mine


----------



## Edmond Dantes

Hi Nik, only becuse BNC connection is better than RCA...  If you don't want to use an adapter, you can search for a RCA/BNC cable...


----------



## Nik

Hi Giorgio, hard to find or to change my RCA Nordost Odin...  (And 4 BNC... No one RCA...)


----------



## Xecuter

Did Joe say anything else about the new 2a3 tubes he was building with KR Audio?


----------



## cladane

Hello,
 Quote:


nik said:


> Hi Giorgio, hard to find or to change my RCA Nordost Odin...  (And 4 BNC... No one RCA...)


 
@Nik, living in Italy surprising that you didn't listen to the VIVA Egoista, an unequaled masterful amp based on the 845 triode, handmade by this VIVA great Italian (Vicenza) company managed by the Schembri brothers.
 Never been aware of them ?


----------



## Nik

I don't think tubes are the best solution for the Abyss... Just my two cents... 

Best regards 
Nik


----------



## isquirrel

nik said:


> I don't think tubes are the best solution for the Abyss... Just my two cents...
> 
> Best regards
> Nik


 

 The Abyss works fine with both, the Viva Egosita is IMHO not a safe amp, I measured the temps on the sides of that amp with a Fluke IR Thermometer and they were +60C, that would make them unsaleable here in Australia where the max is 50C, I couldn't even touch the volume control for long as it burnt my fingers. The Abyss sounds really good with the DAVE, I have just had the Goldmund HDA2 here and IMO not as good as the DAVE, something special about that pairing. 
  
 The Woo 234's with 300B's running Plate Lo-Z have about 65% of their power left to go running the Abyss LOUD ! Ask Joe, he is a big fan of the 234's, properly sorted with good valves.
  
 Recently have been listening to something else very special and about as different as you can get. The Stax SR-009's. How I wish that Joe would make an Electrostatic version of the Abyss.


----------



## isquirrel

cladane said:


> @Nik, living in Italy surprising that you didn't listen to the VIVA Egoista, an unequaled masterful amp based on the 845 triode, handmade by this VIVA great Italian (Vicenza) company managed by the Schembri brothers.
> Never been aware of them ?


 
 Worth listening to its smaller bother the 2A3 version. For what its worth, my impressions were it was more musical than its 845 brother. I don't know why they discourage tube rolling but you would definitely want to explore the options.


----------



## cladane

isquirrel said:


> Worth listening to its smaller bother the 2A3 version. For what its worth, my impressions were it was more musical than its 845 brother. I don't know why they discourage tube rolling but you would definitely want to explore the options.


 

 ​You are welcome and I agree with your comment.
 The VIVA 2A3 has gently rounded trebles and is more forgiving than for ex an 45 which leads to make it 'musical' like you write.
  
 My point was that the 845 gives what it is expected from that triode: transparency and huge dynamic. You listen a lot to the DAC and being a DAVE it gives it a lot of space.
 Then the 2A3 has not enough power to drive the Abyss.
  
 But two great pieces of work.


----------



## Xecuter

As always i think the power requirements of the abyss are being overstated here.

Tubes are a great solution with the abyss as many would agree the wa234, wa5 (maxed) are wonderful pairing with the abyss.

Not only was safety and heat a worry with the egosita, but it auditioned poorly to my ears. It was overly smoothed and lacked space and separation.

Other amps to consider are the studio and stellaris. If you can even find someone willing to sell.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

xecuter said:


> As always i think the power requirements of the abyss are being overstated here.
> 
> Tubes are a great solution with the abyss as many would agree the wa234, wa5 (maxed) are wonderful pairing with the abyss.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree.  After all, Joe (you know they guy who designed the Abyss) has a pair do WA234's and KR has a new 2A3 designed specially for the Abyss.
  
 In addition, I would point out that I have had 3, yes THREE opportunities to buy a Studio and no one has a Stellaris (aside Donald)... yet.  Also, the DNA has more power than the EC amp.


----------



## Xecuter

Impressions from the people who matter is that the studio won't be as musical and engaging as the stellaris but studio wins in detail  and soundstage. 
  
 You can probably DAC roll these to a meeting point in between the two.
  
 P.S. I still haven't got mine yet.


----------



## jelt2359

The studio is just incredible at what it does well, a holographic and detail-filled soundstage. If I want musicality and engagingness I'd still turn to my Ear Yoshino v12, though. Nice to have options. Both are superb. 

I think not enough people are considering speaker amps as headamps.


----------



## cladane

Hello,
  
 I read that HP amps don't suit headphones because of the speakers output transformers which are not efficient for headphones (question of energy loss).
  
 Utopia listeners seem to prefer it to the SR009. Quite the same sig sounding (even better in the trebles for the Utopia) and much easier to drive (and less expensive).
  
 A lot of comments here on HeadFi.
  
  
 Egoista, Studio, Dave, Stellaris, KR, ...
 Yes, one audiophile, one best amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Claude.


----------



## isquirrel

bigfatpaulie said:


> I agree.  After all, Joe (you know they guy who designed the Abyss) has a pair do WA234's and KR has a new 2A3 designed specially for the Abyss.
> 
> In addition, I would point out that I have had 3, yes THREE opportunities to buy a Studio and no one has a Stellaris (aside Donald)... yet.  Also, the DNA has more power than the EC amp.


 

 Is it possible to get details of these special 2A3 from KR so that we can order them?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

isquirrel said:


> Is it possible to get details of these special 2A3 from KR so that we can order them?


 
  
https://thecableco.com/Product/2A3-HP


----------



## isquirrel

bigfatpaulie said:


> https://thecableco.com/Product/2A3-HP


 

 Excellent thanks Paul, see they are making new versions of the 845, 300B and Balloon ad 274B. Hmm only sold to people in the US. Must be a way around that I hope.


----------



## mulder01

If you can't sort something out Simon, I know there are intermediate shipping companies for situations like this where a company will only ship domestically - I got something sent out a couple of weeks ago on ebay which went from somewhere in the US to said company also in the US who readdressed it to me.  Wasn't super expensive.


----------



## isquirrel

mulder01 said:


> If you can't sort something out Simon, I know there are intermediate shipping companies for situations like this where a company will only ship domestically - I got something sent out a couple of weeks ago on ebay which went from somewhere in the US to said company also in the US who readdressed it to me.  Wasn't super expensive.


 

 That sounds like a great idea, I will talk to you more when we catch up. BTW I have the DAVE here now full time as well as the CAD 1543 MK2 as its a lot more relevant than my MSB stack. It also has fantastic synergy with the Abyss. Maybe Joe can enlighten us on why they go so well with each other but honestly its like a marriage made in Heaven.
  
 The sound differences between the Abyss/DAVE, the Stax/MSB and the Abyss/Woo 234/MSB are hard to get your head around they are so vast. I hate to say it but it really comes down to what you are in the mood for listening material wise.
  
 Last night I was listening to the new Enigma Album "The Fall of A Rebel Angel" between the three of them and the DAVE/Abyss combo is the business.


----------



## Beolab

isquirrel said:


> That sounds like a great idea, I will talk to you more when we catch up. BTW I have the DAVE here now full time as well as the CAD 1543 MK2 as its a lot more relevant than my MSB stack. It also has fantastic synergy with the Abyss. Maybe Joe can enlighten us on why they go so well with each other but honestly its like a marriage made in Heaven.
> 
> The sound differences between the Abyss/DAVE, the Stax/MSB and the Abyss/Woo 234/MSB are hard to get your head around they are so vast. I hate to say it but it really comes down to what you are in the mood for listening material wise.
> 
> Last night I was listening to the new Enigma Album "The Fall of A Rebel Angel" between the three of them and the DAVE/Abyss combo is the business.




I have been testing almost all high end headphones latley , but i can honestly say the DAVE / ABYSS / DHC combo is the overal winner, the synergi is just awsome!


----------



## Nik

I also tried Dave/Abyss combo and it is amazing... But I'd like to see if the combo Headtrip/Abyss will be better for my tastes... Stay tuned...


----------



## Toolman

beolab said:


> isquirrel said:
> 
> 
> > Last night I was listening to the new Enigma Album "The Fall of A Rebel Angel" between the three of them and the DAVE/Abyss combo is the business.
> ...


 
  
 Great stuff...waiting for your detailed impression. 

 Also, which DHC cable are you using? Prion4?


----------



## Beolab

nik said:


> I also tried Dave/Abyss combo and it is amazing... But I'd like to see if the combo Headtrip/Abyss will be better for my tastes... Stay tuned...




It will NOT be any better, the HeadTrip reduce 30% of the upper frequencies and transparency, i have used this setup as you know before.


----------



## Beolab

toolman said:


> Great stuff...waiting for your detailed impression.
> 
> 
> Also, which DHC cable are you using? Prion4?




The new 
DHC Prion 4S

8 ft:
3pin mini XLR - 4 pin xlr in caracole grey 
+
1ft: 
 1/4" phono - 4pin Prion 4 caracole grey Adapter


Simon Isquirrel 
Are using the DHC Prion4S but where previously using the Spore4. 

✨*Magic✨cables*✨


----------



## isquirrel

Using the new Prion4S


----------



## Toolman

Those of you who have used silver Complement4/Spore4...how does it compared to Prion 4 on the Abyss (or other TOTL headphones) seeing that the price jump are quite substantial?


----------



## Nik

beolab said:


> It will NOT be any better, the HeadTrip reduce 30% of the upper frequencies and transparency, i have used this setup as you know before.




I think you are right... it was for me just a test... I trust you...


----------



## Beolab

beolab said:


> I have been testing almost all high end headphones latley , but i can honestly say the DAVE / ABYSS / DHC combo is the overal winner, the synergi is just awsome!




The "Amen" track 12 on the new Enigma Album got great enegy, and sound very nice 

https://tidal.com/track/66740383


----------



## isquirrel

toolman said:


> Those of you who have used silver Complement4/Spore4...how does it compared to Prion 4 on the Abyss (or other TOTL headphones) seeing that the price jump are quite substantial?




Normally I am used to an incremental increase, in other words an improvement but one that takes time to fully understand the differences and then whether or not they are correct. This has been my experience with every DHC and other manufacturers flagship cables until the Prion4S arrived. For the first time I was genuinely shocked at how significant the upgrade is, more of a component level upgrade than one would normally associate with a cable. On DHC marketing material they talk about how this cable makes such an improvement that it will elevate a lower performance Headphone to the level of the higher performing one. 

I have not put that to the test yet, however if the sizable improvement easily audible on the Utopia's then I am more inclined to agree than disagree.

In summary: No Headphone cable has had such a dramatic effect on the sound as this one. Worth every cent, definatly worthy of a solid buy recommendation.

I have tried this cable on a Head-Fi friend who had the same reaction and ordered a pair immediately.


----------



## cladane

Hello here,
  
 Quote:


isquirrel said:


> That sounds like a great idea, I will talk to you more when we catch up. BTW I have the DAVE here now full time as well as the CAD 1543 MK2 as its a lot more relevant than my MSB stack. It also has fantastic synergy with the Abyss. Maybe Joe can enlighten us on why they go so well with each other but honestly its like a marriage made in Heaven.
> 
> The sound differences between the Abyss/DAVE, the Stax/MSB and the Abyss/Woo 234/MSB are hard to get your head around they are so vast. I hate to say it but it really comes down to what you are in the mood for listening material wise.
> 
> Last night I was listening to the new Enigma Album "The Fall of A Rebel Angel" between the three of them and the DAVE/Abyss combo is the business.


 
 So, are you saying that the DAVE/ABYSS/DHC is a better setup than your tube ring (WooAudio 234) ??
 I had understood that you preferred always a little bit of tube (2A3, ...) somewhere in the sound path...
  
 Claude.


----------



## Yoga

Finding myself very tempted by the DAVE. 
  
 Going to upgrade my studio dac (looking at the Crane Song Solaris which has been rated as good as much higher priced dacs), the DAVE may be able to bridge both worlds if running the Abyss directly from them is that good.


----------



## mulder01

cladane said:


> So, are you saying that the DAVE/ABYSS/DHC is a better setup than your tube ring (WooAudio 234) ??
> I had understood that you preferred always a little bit of tube (2A3, ...) somewhere in the sound path...
> 
> Claude.


 
  
 I think he said it depends on your mood / what you want to hear / what you are listening to etc.  on the previous page.
  


yoga said:


> Finding myself very tempted by the DAVE.
> 
> Going to upgrade my studio dac (looking at the Crane Song Solaris which has been rated as good as much higher priced dacs), the DAVE may be able to bridge both worlds if running the Abyss directly from them is that good.


 
  
 I'm sure it has it's strengths just like your moon 600i powerhouse.  Depends on what sound you're chasing I suppose.  Mind you, Beolab was flying the flag for the big irons being best for the Abyss but the Dave converted him...


----------



## Beolab

Yes, i am using both the Moon + DAVE in combination, and 50% of the time, just the DAVE separatly dempending on the mood and what i want to ashive from the listening. 

So i can not say either is the best, you just get spectacular raw correct clear vivid deep resolution with the DAVE alone, and more lush effortless visceral but high res sound in combination with the Moon. 

Hard to choose.. 

I recomend the DAVE + Abyss + DHC over any other system rig i have listened to or owned, if you cant pick both units.


----------



## matthewhypolite

beolab said:


> Yes, i am using both the Moon + DAVE in combination, and 50% of the time, just the DAVE separatly dempending on the mood and what i want to ashive from the listening.
> 
> So i can not say either is the best, you just get spectacular raw correct clear vivid deep resolution with the DAVE alone, and more lush effortless visceral but high res sound in combination with the Moon.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have Yggy+LAu+Abyss+DHC. im thinking Dave+WA5LE+Abyss+DHC in the future.

 P.S. testing the Utopias agaisnt the Abyss atm. Holding any serious comments on them till i have some more time with it.


----------



## Nik

beolab said:


> I recomend the DAVE + Abyss + DHC over any other system rig i have listened to or owned, if you cant pick both units.





Very, very nice to read this...!!!


----------



## Toolman

matthewhypolite said:


> beolab said:
> 
> 
> > I recomend the DAVE + Abyss + DHC over any other system rig i have listened to or owned, if you cant pick both units.
> ...


 
  
 I am on Hugo + Spore4 + LAu + silver C4 + Abyss/Utopia now...doubt I can get any better than LAu without splashing some serious money here. Auditioned WA5LE and my take away was that it is at best a side grade, or even a downgrade imo.

 I considered my "weak" link here will be the Hugo but I can leave at harmony with the present setup...looking forward to my Dave in a couple of months time


----------



## matthewhypolite

toolman said:


> I am on Hugo + Spore4 + LAu + silver C4 + Abyss/Utopia now...doubt I can get any better than LAu without splashing some serious money here. Auditioned WA5LE and my take away was that it is at best a side grade, or even a downgrade imo.
> 
> I considered my "weak" link here will be the Hugo but I can leave at harmony with the present setup...looking forward to my Dave in a couple of months time


 
 What tubes did you use for WA5LE ? cause ive read the Tak tubes make a substantial difference. And you're right, an ugpraded WA5LE im looking at aroudn 7k$ min, close to 10k$ if i upgrade all the tubes.
  
 Also, Abyss/Utopia what are your thoughts on those 2?
 My utopia is burning in as we speak, but when im home i do compare them to the abyss. (i've stopped comparing them to the HEK cause i pretty much have my thoughts on that finalized even though its only been a couple days.)

 So, thoughts?


----------



## Toolman

I've only auditioned the WA5LE at the dealer's showroom, so it will be bone stock. Adored tube sound but I hate going down the tube route now mainly because I know there will be my never ending quest for better tubes (a scary prospect for me and my wallet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). Liquid Tungsten, being non tube rolling amp might just be the "perfect" amp for me? We'll see...

 Just burning in my Abyss and not enough time to get acquainted with it just yet, but these two (Utopia + Abyss) might just be it for me and no more new gears for me (apart for my Dave) for awhile.

 My HEK and HD800S will be consigned to my office listening now


----------



## Nik

Yeeeaaa... Very interested to know the war Utopia/Abyss with the same companion Chord Dave... 
 Who can do this comparison, please, write sooooooonnnnnn...


----------



## matthewhypolite

nik said:


> Yeeeaaa... Very interested to know the war Utopia/Abyss with the same companion Chord Dave...
> Who can do this comparison, please, write sooooooonnnnnn...


 
  
 I can offer very early thoughts if you like, but ill reserve any detailed comparison for later on.
  
  


toolman said:


> I've only auditioned the WA5LE at the dealer's showroom, so it will be bone stock. Adored tube sound but I hate going down the tube route now mainly because I know there will be my never ending quest for better tubes (a scary prospect for me and my wallet
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The tungsten is not going to have tube rolling? not sure if id wanna get a tube amp without that, id want that flexibility / capability.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

nik said:


> Yeeeaaa... Very interested to know the war Utopia/Abyss with the same companion Chord Dave...
> Who can do this comparison, please, write sooooooonnnnnn...


 
  
 Is there anything specific you were wondering about?  The two headphones offer very different presentations.


----------



## matthewhypolite

I've just replied to Nik in a PM, but guess i can put my impressions here:

 Based on very very very early listening of Utopia:
  
 The utopia is an awesome headphone, and very similar to the Abyss IMO for what it does. 
 Comparing the HEK to the Utopia/Abyss are very different, so easy to form an opinion there as they are different ends of the spectrum.
 But what i love about the abyss is the amazing power, authority, clarity. The utopia does all of that really well also, just different.
 One user said it best, the abyss and utopia are like different flavors of icecream. Depends on your taste. They are very much different, yet still very similar lol.

 The Utopia has a more full bodied lush sound. And handles mids/vocals etc more naturally so better to my ears. The abyss in contrast can be considered too analytical / harsh when compared to utopia for vocals/mids/highs. Where the abyss really shines is in the bass. it's so powerful, so forceful. The utopias have awesome bass as well. But id give the edge to Abyss there. My issue with the abyss is, depending on the track and fit, the bass can loose control, and i may have to re-adjust the headphone on head to solve it. The utopias on the other hand are a normal headphone fit. So it will sound consistent every time with no adjustment required.
  
 The abyss has the ability to sound open, spacious and wide whiles still sounding forceful, accurate, immediate, aggressive. The utopias are very fast as well, but does that in more of a way that a closed back headphone would. So it does not have an open sound. It really sounds like the best closed back headphone you can get, whiles not having any of the flaws of a closed back cans. The utopias also retrieves detail like no other. I can literally hear things in the tracks that i couldn't make out obviously on the abyss.
  
 What i can say is, the utopia and abyss are both so good at what they do im considering selling one. The HEK is different enough to keep it around. but the Utopia / Abyss are really good similar flavors and there's alot of overlap between the 2. I may sell the abyss, i may keep it around. Really not sure atm. Last night i heard a track on both and thought to myself.....WOW the abyss are awesome! i cant let these things go. When the abyss excels they really excel. what i am sure of though. is the utopias are something special. (Just like the Abyss).


----------



## Nik

F A N T A S T I C mini review!!!


----------



## Yoga

@matthewhypolite - and I think @Beolab will back me up here - try the Abyss through the Moon 600i. It 'fills in' the gaps of the Abyss (as such) by adding an organic and analogue/lush sound. Pair that with the factors the Abyss already excel in and you may find audio nirvana :¬)

 I will always lean to the 'musical' side, so perhaps the Abyss through the DAVE alone won't do it for me.


----------



## Nik

Mmmmm.... 
Musical for you means warmth sound...? Not true...


----------



## jlbrach

I have both the Utopia and the LCD-4 with the Dave....great combo,the 2 HP's are very different but both wonderful....never heard the Abyss


----------



## m17xr2b

@Beolab do you run the Dave into the preamp of the 600i or bypass it? Can you check if you notice any difference when using Dave as a preamp? 
 I'm waiting on a 300B preamp with the new Elrog tubes to bring something extra to the 600i. Apart from some transformer hum which is most likely due to my electricity the 600i is astonishing.


----------



## Toolman

yoga said:


> @matthewhypolite - and I think @Beolab will back me up here - try the Abyss through the Moon 600i. It 'fills in' the gaps of the Abyss (as such) by adding an organic and analogue/lush sound. Pair that with the factors the Abyss already excel in and you may find audio nirvana :¬)
> 
> I will always lean to the 'musical' side, so perhaps the Abyss through the DAVE alone won't do it for me.


 

 To me, LAu is already kinda lush sounding...the signature that I really like. Not heard of Moon 600i so I don't know about this but I don't see it adds any more warmth/lushness to what he already got. Do correct me if I'm wrong here...


----------



## matthewhypolite

toolman said:


> To me, LAu is already kinda lush sounding...the signature that I really like. Not heard of Moon 600i so I don't know about this but I don't see it adds any more warmth/lushness to what he already got. Do correct me if I'm wrong here...


 
 I think this as well.

 P.S. id only describe the Abyss that way in relation to the Utopia. The utopias are THAT good.
 Take LCD3 by comparison, it is more on the "lush" sounding side, but the LCD3 doesnt hold a candle to the Abyss, so i wouldnt even describe that quality as a positive when compared to what the abyss offers. The Utopia on the other hand, had done it right.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

There is also this.


----------



## matthewhypolite

bigfatpaulie said:


> There is also this.


 
 long read, ill have a gander in a bit.


----------



## astrostar59

isquirrel said:


> That sounds like a great idea, I will talk to you more when we catch up. BTW I have the DAVE here now full time as well as the CAD 1543 MK2 as its a lot more relevant than my MSB stack. It also has fantastic synergy with the Abyss. Maybe Joe can enlighten us on why they go so well with each other but honestly its like a marriage made in Heaven.
> 
> The sound differences between the Abyss/DAVE, the Stax/MSB and the Abyss/Woo 234/MSB are hard to get your head around they are so vast. I hate to say it but it really comes down to what you are in the mood for listening material wise.
> 
> Last night I was listening to the new Enigma Album "The Fall of A Rebel Angel" between the three of them and the DAVE/Abyss combo is the business.


 
 Is the DAVE really as good as the Select?


----------



## isquirrel

astrostar59 said:


> Is the DAVE really as good as the Select?


 

 Nope, not even close IMHO


----------



## Beolab

m17xr2b said:


> @Beolab
> do you run the Dave into the preamp of the 600i or bypass it? Can you check if you notice any difference when using Dave as a preamp?
> I'm waiting on a 300B preamp with the new Elrog tubes to bring something extra to the 600i. Apart from some transformer hum which is most likely due to my electricity the 600i is astonishing.





I have tested it inside out: 

Setup 1 
The DAVE used as DAC / Pre and the Moon 600i set to pass through used as a power amp. 

Setup 2: 
DAVE with fixed volume and used the Moon 600i as Pre & Amp . 

Setup 3: 
I have used both DAVE and Moon as Pre amps. 

What is the best solution / setup ..? 

DAVE used as dac / pre amp, and the Moon set to bypass the pre amp, here you win in shorter signal path and less transparancy loss. 
In teory the absolut best way, but in the reality it is not a huge diffrence, but you get slight higher control / precision, and that proves that the Pre amp in the Moon is almost 98-99% transparent vs run it direct pass through with the Pre set to off.


----------



## Beolab

isquirrel said:


> Nope, not even close IMHO




I have heard them both because i am selling them both, and to me i would not say one is better than the other, they have both their strengths and weaknesses, but i can in short describe that the DAVE sounds more combusted and maybe slight more weighty in its tone, with great smooth upper mid / treble and a great depth to it. It got a great rawness to it that carves out every single bit of the material you are listening to, without sounding overly analytical, and that magic trick belongs to "Rob -W- Copperfield". 

The Select II DAC combined with (2x) mono power supplies, the sound sounds a bit more holographic and more weightless ( it is more vividly bright in the tone), with slight more 3D easiness to the sound. The MSB does not have the same weight to the overall tone as the DAVE, but in the other hand sounds more correct and precise maybe ( Timing )

And are they musical? 

Yes they are very musical both of them, but the MSB maybe sounds more technical and a slight less musically. 

If both had a price tag of 15$ each, i should honestly got a harder time to choose than Simon maybe, but is down on a matter of taste, both are extremely good products.


----------



## isquirrel

I don't agree, I have both sitting right here next to me. Not everything I say is correct, it is for me though subjectively. I listen to music everyday, every day I by choice reach for either the Utopia's/Abyss through the 234's - MSB or more recently Stax 009/MSB Stack. 
  
 Oh I wish I hadn't commentated on that question, I had managed to avoid that one for quite a while.


----------



## Beolab

matthewhypolite said:


> I've just replied to Nik in a PM, but guess i can put my impressions here:
> 
> 
> Based on very very very early listening of Utopia:
> ...




Great short comparison of yours! 

I have borrowed the Utopia a few times lately for shorter periods, but i have just connected them to the DAVE because i didn't got a XLR-1/4" female adapter so could run them on the Moon, but this time i have tha adaptor in my possession , so i will lend them most probably tomorrow once again for a longer period for a extensive comparison. 

As @Yoga mentioned the Moon taking care of many of the Abyss known flaws in a great way, i would not say total transformation, but almost . It is like a slick Bentley Flying Spur with the elegance and effortless power, and it presenting the mids much better with an easiness so the sound is never harsh at all.

Update you during the weekend and during next week.


----------



## Toolman

isquirrel said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > Is the DAVE really as good as the Select?
> ...




That's a $90k vs $15k question here


----------



## Beolab

https://tidal.com/album/14403641

Extreme sound


----------



## bigfatpaulie

beolab said:


> https://tidal.com/album/14403641
> 
> Extreme sound


 
  
 I always appreciate your music suggestions!!  Any particular track you are hooked on right now?


----------



## CaptainCB

For those of you guys that are comparing the various headphones (abyss, focal, audeze) with various cables (dhc prion or complement/spore, superconductor)... How are you swapping the cables between headphones? Using adapters from dhc? Or are the cables completely dedicated to the cans?

I ask because I am trying to decide which plunge to take... Abyss or focal. And would love to be able to continue using my existing cable that I truly appreciate. And compare to one that would rival it... Prion most likely. But I would like for it to be flexible among current and future headphones. 

Preferred methods for you guys?


----------



## PLUSSOUND

captaincb said:


>


 
  
 We are noticing many getting one main (typically flagship) cable and using adapters when needed for different headphones and/or different sources.


----------



## Beolab

bigfatpaulie said:


> I always appreciate your music suggestions!!  Any particular track you are hooked on right now?




Oh, thanks Paul, glad you like them

Always fun to share tracks that show of our beloved magic Abyss ! 

Just a few samples of my library.. 

The hole album is realy good, but i am stuck on Track 5 , Track 7 and Track 3 in that order.


----------



## Beolab

captaincb said:


> For those of you guys that are comparing the various headphones (abyss, focal, audeze) with various cables (dhc prion or complement/spore, superconductor)... How are you swapping the cables between headphones? Using adapters from dhc? Or are the cables completely dedicated to the cans?
> 
> I ask because I am trying to decide which plunge to take... Abyss or focal. And would love to be able to continue using my existing cable that I truly appreciate. And compare to one that would rival it... Prion most likely. But I would like for it to be flexible among current and future headphones.
> 
> Preferred methods for you guys?




Most of us have ordered the DHC cables with micro phono connector , and then you can just buy any adaptor plugs you wish and put on. 

So you can use your expensive / exclusive DHC cable for ever..


----------



## Hansotek

captaincb said:


> For those of you guys that are comparing the various headphones (abyss, focal, audeze) with various cables (dhc prion or complement/spore, superconductor)... How are you swapping the cables between headphones? Using adapters from dhc? Or are the cables completely dedicated to the cans?
> 
> I ask because I am trying to decide which plunge to take... Abyss or focal. And would love to be able to continue using my existing cable that I truly appreciate. And compare to one that would rival it... Prion most likely. But I would like for it to be flexible among current and future headphones.
> 
> Preferred methods for you guys?




Don't sleep on the DanaCable Lazuli Reference. Switching to DanaCables has been one of the best upgrades I have ever made. It has turned listening from a want to a need. The music just flows!


----------



## CaptainCB

Thanks for the input guys. Not familiar with Dana cables. Will research a bit. 

My current high end cable is terminated with audeze connectors. I really wanna be able to A/B test that with the new cables. Just for personal gratification. I do not believe myself to be in the league of most of u ultra detailed folks here. But damn what a great resource u guys are to learn from. 

Thanks


----------



## jelt2359

All my cables are terminated with audeze mini xlr and then I use adaptors to abyss, he6, he1000, hd800, hd650 etc etc. 

I often find myself preferring my Alo Audio Ref16 to my Spore4 (shielded). The latter is super smooth and detailed, but the tone is a bit lean. The Alo sounds more balanced in tonality.


----------



## Hansotek

captaincb said:


> Thanks for the input guys. Not familiar with Dana cables. Will research a bit.
> 
> My current high end cable is terminated with audeze connectors. I really wanna be able to A/B test that with the new cables. Just for personal gratification. I do not believe myself to be in the league of most of u ultra detailed folks here. But damn what a great resource u guys are to learn from.
> 
> Thanks




I just posted some resources on DanaCable (links to reviews, etc.) in the Utopia thread for another gentleman, rather than repeating, I'll provide a link to that post here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/811270/focal-elear-and-utopia-review-preview-with-measurements-head-fi-tv/3630#post_13057341


----------



## Hansotek

jelt2359 said:


> All my cables are terminated with audeze mini xlr and then I use adaptors to abyss, he6, he1000, hd800, hd650 etc etc.
> 
> I often find myself preferring my Alo Audio Ref16 to my Spore4 (shielded). The latter is super smooth and detailed, but the tone is a bit lean. The Alo sounds more balanced in tonality.




That's the smart way to go, IMO. Get a better cable and then rock adaptors, especially if they have little to no cable involved. I have direct linked Audeze to SMC connectors, so I can turn 5 headphones and 5 cables into 21 different combinations... and that is just two of my connection types.


----------



## jelt2359

hansotek said:


> That's the smart way to go, IMO. Get a better cable and then rock adaptors, especially if they have little to no cable involved. I have direct linked Audeze to SMC connectors, so I can turn 5 headphones and 5 cables into 21 different combinations... and that is just two of my connection types.




The Dana, Alo, DHC all take similar basic concepts (multiple smaller strands to reduce resistance yet keep a low "gauge"). Seems like a solid approach. I like it in the Alo and DHC, at least. Would be nice to see some comparisons between the three. 

I'm currently getting cables from a guy who uses a different approach to reduce resistance. His power cords and interconnects cables have yielded good results, and I'm getting him to make a custom headphone cable to try as well. Will report back if it works well. His cables are of a unique ribbon design, that is, they are flat, so they are supposed to have a much reduced skin effect compared to traditional rounder cables. 

The signature, at least for his ic and power cord, is analog, smooth, with great micro detail and separation. I've never been a fan of "warm" stuff- those tend to come at a loss of technicalities. His stuff has been a nice exception. 

Best part? His flagship power cord goes for under $500 for a 6ft length. His other cables are similarly reasonably priced.


----------



## Nik

Very good news...
  
 So I need to buy a second Prion4 (I bought for my Abyss), when the Focal Utopia will arrive to my door?


----------



## jelt2359

vtvu said:


> The adapter at the headphones end can be a trouble spot.  The constant assembling/de-assembling of the connectors at the headphones end will hasten the possibility of failure and if the failure is in the ear cups themselves, that spells trouble.  The cost of repairing the headphones will be high if you can get it done at all.


 
 For me personally, this is a great reason to use adaptors. I don't want to be plugging cables in and out of my headphones, as I roll different ones. With adaptors, I plug cables in and out of adaptors, and leave the headphone forever plugged into an adaptor. I'd rather get cables repaired- not headphones. In a perfect world, all headphones would use the same connectors- like speakers.
  
 Too bad the world is not perfect.


----------



## vtvu

Or you can buy a Danacable Lazuli Reference for your Utopia 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Vinh


----------



## ThatPhil

vtvu said:


> Or you can buy a Danacable Lazuli Reference for your Utopia
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Does that have a lifetime warranty or low cost re-terminations like DHC offers.


----------



## CaptainCB

Thanks for the continued replies. Including Vinh from Dana cables. 

I think that my main concern about using adapters is this... Buying in completely to the benefits of making sure that a cable is everything you want... And the maker has minimized so many potentials for negative influences on the signal... If some of the most difficult to "get right" areas reside in the connector areas... Then for me to add two more connectors may have just seriously diminished all the good I did from including a cost no object cable in the first place. Maybe I am wrong in my thinking. 

I do not tend to swap cables in a tube rolling fashion. But understand that I would deteriorate the connectors with each time that I do. So that too is a thought. 

I am already leaning towards a prion setup. Will try to read up more on Dana though. For those who have prion... Am I right to assume that all of you also included spore isolation?

And is there any data for what might be the most robust connectors of any headphone manufacturer? Sounds like sennheiser are among the more fragile?

I again appreciate the input. And will not take this discussion much further here... It does directly relate to my desire to purchase an abyss... But starting to feel like I am high jacking the original purpose of this thread.


----------



## Toolman

captaincb said:


> And is there any data for what might be the most robust connectors of any headphone manufacturer? Sounds like sennheiser are among the more fragile?


 
  
 Most robust: Utopia-Audeze-Abyss (here's staying on subject)

 Most fragile: HiFiMan HE-1000

 Just my experience...


----------



## Beolab

Yes many are using DHC cables with adapters, but me my self are not using any adapters for my Abyss, just straight 3-pin mini XLR, that is a very stable and robust connector type for the headphones, but i got a few other mini adapters so i can use for different headphone types

The Prion 4S is the very best cable i have ever heard and do greater diffrence than many amps and DACs do, that is very remarkable to me who is not a cable beliver from the beginning. 

And to @Nik you can sleep safley! 
You do not need to by a new set of Prions for your other headphones, if you hear any diffrence with Peters Iridium DHC adapters, i will personal buy you a new set of Prions. 


I buy all teories about higher resistance and and so on, but it is the reality that matters, and if you cant hear or feel any diffrence, then just be happy and save the money. 

Just order the cable with the correct connector for you main headphone and use adapters for your secondary and third.


----------



## mulder01

Abyss + Prion 4S makes it a $10k headphone tho...
  
 Plus a quoted wait time of 3-5 months...


----------



## matthewhypolite

captaincb said:


> For those of you guys that are comparing the various headphones (abyss, focal, audeze) with various cables (dhc prion or complement/spore, superconductor)... How are you swapping the cables between headphones? Using adapters from dhc? Or are the cables completely dedicated to the cans?
> 
> I ask because I am trying to decide which plunge to take... Abyss or focal. And would love to be able to continue using my existing cable that I truly appreciate. And compare to one that would rival it... Prion most likely. But I would like for it to be flexible among current and future headphones.
> 
> Preferred methods for you guys?




I have the spore 4 fusion for my abyss and got adapters for all my other cans. I used the cable adaptors out of the same spore4. HEK, denon d700, utopia all using adapters.


----------



## isquirrel

DHC Prion 4S best cable DHC have ever made (& they have all been good) with the Adapter system as Fredrik mentioned its a win win solution. Best HP cable I have ever heard & I have a few.
  
 First person I played them to and they were fresh out of the leather sleeve bought them. Here with duties and Taxes and a full set of adapters you are up forever $6K AUS, expensive but a good investment I even have twin XLR adapters for the amp end so I can use them with amps that have a 6.3MM (Large) jack.
  
 My next shipment arrives end of this week, that will have both XLR and Single Ended Interconnects to go up against the best from Cardas, the latest Transparent Ref XL Generation 5 and MSB's latest cables. If they come out on top of that little test then Hats off to Peter (DHC) as he will have built a World class cable.
  
 Something that no many people know is that Peter is a Molecular Biologist so he understands his metallurgy down to molecular level, and he is the only guy in the Cable world in my experience who does not BS you.
  
 An example of this is, how many cable manufacturers think (Nordost) brag about using 6N Silver, a lot right. Well its all BS as his research found that the world's top refinery, Nikko Japan, doing the most cutting edge research, can only refine silver to six nines. 
  
  
  
  
 So the very best cables are five nines silver 
  
 Nikko's slide show says 6N is the limit for silver currently and that is for minute quantities of research grade material.
  
 Now copper can hit 9N but nobody actually has 8N or 9N except researchers, and 7N is worth more than pure gold so even Nordost doesn't actually have it, they stretch the facts too.
  
 ​Prion4 is 210 strands with seven cores and two types of cores. Simply put it has more strands than any other cable built. TO give you an example - Siltech's TOTL Duchess Crown it's a modestly sized 4 wire silver OCC cable, it has 18 strands.
  
 Hope this helps people to understand some of the details behind cables and hopefully allow you to tell when the marketing team has worked the facts into fiction.
  
 None of this applies to Joe's cables, he uses a different tech entirely.


----------



## CaptainCB

Thanks for the VERY REAL reply isquirrel. i think it truly de estates the sub-industry to have pseudo science cloud what could be a very solid contribution to the hobby, art, and engineering of this "audiophile" world. I have no problem with giving into the "feel" of things. There is always an emotional component to listening to music. Otherwise... You're dead. But having quantitative facts to go on bring the brain to the same place as the heart. Cable naysayers be darned.... I appreciate keeping all the loose links in the chain as tight as I can afford to...


----------



## scootermafia

beolab said:


> Yes many are using DHC cables with adapters, but me my self are not using any adapters for my Abyss, just straight 3-pin mini XLR, that is a very stable and robust connector type for the headphones, but i got a few other mini adapters so i can use for different headphone types
> 
> The Prion 4S is the very best cable i have ever heard and do greater diffrence than many amps and DACs do, that is very remarkable to me who is not a cable beliver from the beginning.
> 
> ...


 

 Just to correct you, they're called "Ultrashort" or "Triple Threat," not sure where the word Iridium came from.

 Using short adapters going into a headphone with one cable means less connection cycles on the original jacks of the headphone.  Any headphone cable end is highly reparable and stuff like HD800, Utopia LEMO, Audeze mini XLR, are not plugs we ever see getting repaired, they are pro grade plugs that can take many years of abuse.  It's up to the customer if they want to compromise a little and use adapters with one expensive cable vs. buying many less expensive cables, at the same budget.


----------



## isquirrel

scootermafia said:


> Just to correct you, they're called "Ultrashort" or "Triple Threat," not sure where the word Iridium came from.
> 
> Using short adapters going into a headphone with one cable means less connection cycles on the original jacks of the headphone.  Any headphone cable end is highly reparable and stuff like HD800, Utopia LEMO, Audeze mini XLR, are not plugs we ever see getting repaired, they are pro grade plugs that can take many years of abuse.  It's up to the customer if they want to compromise a little and use adapters with one expensive cable vs. buying many less expensive cables, at the same budget.


 

 When you "compromise" you are talking about design right and extra weight not compromising on sound quality ? Just to clarify


----------



## scootermafia

I've measured the resistance of adapters like this and it's really small, especially compared to all the resistors, caps, and board traces just inches ahead of the cable inside your amp or DAC, I don't think that anyone would be able to double blind test and hear a difference, and certainly it's not a complaint I've ever heard leveled by anyone who has used this sort of adapter.  If you're the sort of audiophile that just hates the _idea_ of adapters, then nobody's forcing anyone to use them, they're a convenience and money saving thing, and anyone can build their own and have fun with it and see for themselves.


----------



## isquirrel

I just some digging around seems DHC have a few awards, seeing as Dana seems to be trying to discredit the use of adapters. I wouldn't use them if they caused deg on the SQ, fact is he is using Lemo connectors - they are designed to be punished as they are a Pro connector. AFAIK best connector out there.
  
 DHC PF Brutus award I just found


----------



## Toolman

The disadvantage that Vinh (Dana Cable) talked about is theoretically correct. In the real world scenario tho, not so much. 

 He discourage the use of adapters for headphones, not discrediting them (that's how I interpret his "now deleted" post)

 As someone who uses adapters frequently on most of my headphones (_I typically have them terminated in the robust 4-pin mini XLR and uses adapters to fit all my other headphones_), I can say with confidence that adapters especially the short direct connectors, yield no noticeable sound quality degradation as far as my ears can tell, and only very little real world impracticality. Adapters allowed some of us to try out a particular cable on a variety of headphones and to determine which will match a particular headphone the best, hence many of us used it.

 Now Vinh's suggestion is not entirely wrong...in an ideal world, I would love to have one cable to fit my only headphone, but we know better and due to our search for life's variety, many of us have several headphones and it's economically challenged to have a cable for each and every one of our headphones (which I have several) and with the escalating cost of many TOTL cables often time costing half, sometime even more than the cost of the headphones itself, so this has to be an economic factor for many of us to consider.

 I loved to try out different cables and interconnects to fine tune my ideal sound signature for my headphone setup, which means that I have bought several very expensive cables (Nordost Heimdall2, DHC silver Complement4, copper Complement4, silver Spore4 IC, Norne Eternus, Toxic Silver Widow 22, WyWires Platinum, Moon Silver Dragon etc etc) and I now have silver Complement4 (semi-permanently) affixed to my Utopia, copper Complement4 to my HD800S, Norne Eternus to my HEK and Nordost H2 to my HE-560. I should have my Dana Lazuli Reference shorty just to screw up my status quo all over again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Now despite some esteem members here waxing lyrical about the Prion4S, whether or not it is the "*best cable ever made*" or that it is "*worthy as much as a high-end component upgrade itself*", I find myself in a hard financial position to justify spending over $2K on a set of Prion4S and then having to wait 3~6 months for them to reach me...but then again hearing is believing so maybe I have not heard enough cables? That said I am very happy with my Silver C4 and how I wished DHC have 30 days buy back guarantee just like Dana Cable offered.


----------



## Yoga

Let's face it, adapters = less profit. Anything else is just marketing speak.
  
 A *pro made* thoroughly tested adapter will do *nothing* audibly discernible to the sound.
  
 Hats off to DHC for making them in the best way they can, it proves a point; *customers first.*
  
_Actions speak louder than words._


----------



## jelt2359

yoga said:


> Let's face it, adapters = less profit. Anything else is just marketing speak.
> 
> A *pro made* thoroughly tested adapter will do *nothing* audibly discernible to the sound.
> 
> ...


 
 Thor seems to have visited this thread and I can't find the original post by the MOT now (Dana), but I remember the post stating that well-made adaptors cost something like 70% of a cable. If that is true, and given that some of these cables are kilobuck a piece, then we are using very different adaptors! Has anyone seen adaptors go at that price? I'm curious what the difference is.


----------



## Yoga

Side note - ordered the Phonitor 2 and the new Phonitor X for my studio/production setup (HD800/K812). Will be fun comparing them both.
  
 I'll run the Abyss through them and see how they both handle them!
  
 https://spl.info/en/products/professional-fidelity-pro-fi/phonitor-x/overview.html
  
 Looks like a beast.


----------



## Beolab

jelt2359 said:


> Thor seems to have visited this thread and I can't find the original post by the MOT now (Dana), but I remember the post stating that well-made adaptors cost something like 70% of a cable. If that is true, and given that some of these cables are kilobuck a piece, then we are using very different adaptors! Has anyone seen adaptors go at that price? I'm curious what the difference is.




Yes, i got a Prion 4s adapter with Iridium connectors, it cost almost 50% of the Prion HP cable i remember.


----------



## Beolab

scootermafia said:


> Just to correct you, they're called "Ultrashort" or "Triple Threat," not sure where the word Iridium came from.
> 
> 
> Using short adapters going into a headphone with one cable means less connection cycles on the original jacks of the headphone.  Any headphone cable end is highly reparable and stuff like HD800, Utopia LEMO, Audeze mini XLR, are not plugs we ever see getting repaired, they are pro grade plugs that can take many years of abuse.  It's up to the customer if they want to compromise a little and use adapters with one expensive cable vs. buying many less expensive cables, at the same budget.




I am speaking about the material not the name of the adapter


----------



## Beolab

isquirrel said:


> DHC Prion 4S best cable DHC have ever made (& they have all been good) with the Adapter system as Fredrik mentioned its a win win solution. Best HP cable I have ever heard & I have a few.
> 
> First person I played them to and they were fresh out of the leather sleeve bought them. Here with duties and Taxes and a full set of adapters you are up forever $6K AUS, expensive but a good investment I even have twin XLR adapters for the amp end so I can use them with amps that have a 6.3MM (Large) jack.
> 
> ...




Great clarification for those who like to buy DHC, but do not understand the difference between a "ultra-mega-super silver cable" and a DHC silver cable. 

Peter have described and wrote me a small essay about this also i can share to does who would like to read about the quality of silver , amount of strands, cores and shielding and more..


----------



## Toolman

thatphil said:


> vtvu said:
> 
> 
> > Or you can buy a Danacable Lazuli Reference for your Utopia
> ...


 

@vtvu I'll be interested in this matter too...will you service / refresh / re-terminate your cables at cost for your clients?


----------



## wasupdog

toolman said:


> The disadvantage that Vinh (Dana Cable) talked about is theoretically correct. In the real world scenario tho, not so much.
> 
> He discourage the use of adapters for headphones, not discrediting them (that's how I interpret his "now deleted" post)
> 
> As someone who uses adapters frequently on most of my headphones (_I typically have them terminated in the robust 4-pin mini XLR and uses adapters to fit all my other headphones_), I can say with confidence that adapters especially the short direct connectors, yield no noticeable sound quality degradation as far as my ears can tell, and only very little real world impracticality. Adapters allowed some of us to try out a particular cable on a variety of headphones and to determine which will match a particular headphone the best, hence many of us used it.


 
  
 Where do we buy these adapters?


----------



## Toolman

> Originally Posted by *wasupdog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Where do we buy these adapters?


 
  
 Made them...not available in shops


----------



## Toolman

As a relative new owner of Abyss, I would like to seek advice from long time owners about which type of cables do you think suits Abyss best?

 I am currently using a DHC Silver Complement4 with it, but if there are any among you who have done cables rolling previously could point me at the right directions to narrow down my search. Thank you


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Speaking of awards, Abyss won two recently,


----------



## Kiats

Congrats, Joe! Well deserved!


----------



## Yoga

Well deserved indeed!


----------



## Yoga

joe skubinski said:


> ...


 
  
 Joe - any chance of you sending a pair of Abyss to the Sonarworks guys?

 While I adore them already, having an adjusted EQ curve for monitoring/production would be absolutely sublime. They transforms even the cheapest of can. The HD800 have become another beast entirely. I can't even imagine what the Abyss would be like afterwards.


----------



## draytonklammer

yoga said:


> Joe - any chance of you sending a pair of Abyss to the Sonarworks guys?
> 
> While I adore them already, having an adjusted EQ curve for monitoring/production would be absolutely sublime. They transforms even the cheapest of can. The HD800 have become another beast entirely. I can't even imagine what the Abyss would be like afterwards.


 
 This seems super cool after Googling it.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

yoga said:


> Joe - any chance of you sending a pair of Abyss to the Sonarworks guys?




Not planning on sending headphones anytime soon to Latvia. I feel AB-1266 are fine for mastering as well, really depends on what you are accustomed to, If it's speakers, we're already there..

Seems their system is a much needed attempt to level EQ's at the studio side.. good luck with that. Since a proper reference curve for headphones doesn't exist, they're offering a cal file to their own curve.
They describe it as Abbey Road on the road. I believe Abbey Road has used latest generation Bowers and Wilkens 800 series loudspeakers for decades, just so happens that's a similar sound we're accustomed to. My guess would be you would not find that great of a difference before and after.


----------



## Yoga

joe skubinski said:


> Not planning on sending headphones anytime soon to Latvia. I feel AB-1266 are fine for mastering as well, really depends on what you are accustomed to, If it's speakers, we're already there..
> 
> Seems their system is a much needed attempt to level EQ's at the studio side.. good luck with that. Since a proper reference curve for headphones doesn't exist, they're offering a cal file to their own curve.
> They describe it as Abbey Road on the road. I believe Abbey Road has used latest generation Bowers and Wilkens 800 series loudspeakers for decades, just so happens that's a similar sound we're accustomed to. My guess would be you would not find that great of a difference before and after.


 

 No offence intended; the Abyss are not suited for mixing/mastering at all. They have their own sound and signature (which has nothing to do with sounding like speakers). 
  
 'Abbey Road on the road' is simply marketing to catch attention, used as an example of taking a mastering studio with you. It's clearly not referencing anything technical to the studio itself. The fact you latched onto this kind of illustrates you're missing the point of the software. I can't recall a single professional review or user reporting that the Abyss were totally transparent. Ever. It's not what they're known for, and you know that


----------



## mulder01

Would be hard with the Abyss because everyone's FR would vary with their fit.  If you trust the FR graphs given by inner fidelity and the like, couldn't you just use those graphs to make your own PMEQ profile to cancel out the peaks and valleys to make a neutral sound?  I mean, I bought the Abyss because I like it's sound.  I think if it was EQ'd to be 'correct' I may not like it anymore.  Unless you are doing mastering I don't see the point.  
  
 I wondered if someone had one of those smyth realisers that has the microphones that actually sit in your ear could test the FR of the Abyss, how much the results would change with toe in/out of the headband as well as vertical tilt and physical gap from the ear pad to the head.  And then on multiple people with different shaped heads.  I think you'd get quite varied results.  I mean, it doesn't bother me how they measure but I think it would encourage the skeptics to give the Abyss a go if they knew how hard it was to get an accurate measurement on them...
  
 IMO


----------



## Joe Skubinski

What is the reference freq response they are EQ'ing to?



yoga said:


> No offence intended; the Abyss are not suited for mixing/mastering at all. They have their own sound and signature (which has nothing to do with sounding like speakers).
> 
> 'Abbey Road on the road' is simply marketing to catch attention, used as an example of taking a mastering studio with you. It's clearly not referencing anything technical to the studio itself. The fact you latched onto this kind of illustrates you're missing the point of the software. I can't recall a single professional review or user reporting that the Abyss were totally transparent. Ever. It's not what they're known for, and you know that


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Speaking of awards, Abyss won two recently, and may I add I appreciate very much their appreciation for what we are doing to improve the enjoyment of recorded music...


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> Would be hard with the Abyss because everyone's FR would vary with their fit.  If you trust the FR graphs given by inner fidelity and the like, couldn't you just use those graphs to make your own PMEQ profile to cancel out the peaks and valleys to make a neutral sound?  I mean, I bought the Abyss because I like it's sound.  I think if it was EQ'd to be 'correct' I may not like it anymore.  Unless you are doing mastering I don't see the point.


 
  
 Fit - that's a very good point. You'd need to have individual calibration and made sure you always used the same positioning.
  
 I'm mastering and want the depth, accuracy, power and dynamic range of the Abyss while doing so. It would be sublime! 
  


joe skubinski said:


> What is the reference freq response they are EQ'ing to?


 
  
 It's designed for studio professionals, so whatever it is, it'll be good. Multiple producers with Grammy awards use the software and swear by it. Their need for flat sound is leagues above what the consumer considers flat. 
  
 Please don't think I'm bashing the Abyss; they are my favourite headphone. I'd just love to be able to mix and master with them, but I can't. I've tried, and it's not accurate.


----------



## ufospls2

It doesn't matter what headphones and speakers you use to mix/master a record. What matters is KNOWING your headphones/speakers. If you know them well enough, it doesn't matter if they are not "accurate" as you automatically compensate for the innacuracies that may be present. Take the Yamaha NS-10's for example. Terrible speakers, but mixes done on them translate well to radio, so they were the industry standard for eons. I know of grammy nominated records that were mostly done with Apple Earpods.
  
 You could always try playing with EQ using a frequency response graph of the AB-1266's to compensate and it would give you an approximation of what the sonarworks would accomplish. Personally, I don't think it is worth it trying to flatten the frequency response of the Abyss, but that is just me. They could certainly be used for mixing and mastering though, given you know them well enough. They definitely produce reference level sound.


----------



## Yoga

ufospls2 said:


> It doesn't matter what headphones and speakers you use to mix/master a record. What matters is KNOWING your headphones/speakers. If you know them well enough, it doesn't matter if they are not "accurate" as you automatically compensate for the innacuracies that may be present. Take the Yamaha NS-10's for example. Terrible speakers, but mixes done on them translate well to radio, so they were the industry standard for eons. I know of grammy nominated records that were mostly done with Apple Earpods.
> 
> You could always try playing with EQ using a frequency response graph of the AB-1266's to compensate and it would give you an approximation of what the sonarworks would accomplish. Personally, I don't think it is worth it trying to flatten the frequency response of the Abyss, but that is just me. They could certainly be used for mixing and mastering though, given you know them well enough. They definitely produce reference level sound.


 
  
 Yes indeed—although in that respect one may as well mix and produce using £10 ear buds—but I'd rather work as close to reference/flat as possible. For obvious reasons.
  
 Any mix/mastering engineer worth their salt have more than one set of monitors to work from. Usually 2-3. You usually see NS10s accompanied by more accurate speakers. The Yams are just great for carving out the midrange.

 Reference level sound is _exactly_ why I want to use them with SWR3.


----------



## ufospls2

yoga said:


> Yes indeed—although in that respect one may as well mix and produce using £10 ear buds—but I'd rather work as close to reference/flat as possible. For obvious reasons.
> 
> Any mix/mastering engineer worth their salt have more than one set of monitors to work from. Usually 2-3. You usually see NS10s accompanied by more accurate speakers. The Yams are just great for carving out the midrange.
> 
> Reference level sound is _exactly_ why I want to use them with SWR3.


 
 Very true. I suppose you could send your Abyss to Sonarworks as they do individual headphones for customers. Don't know how accurate it would be, as the Abyss has a different fit on every head, so their test head for getting the response curve would be different than your head. How much that would influence the results, I have no idea. 
  
 Jealous that you have the twotwo.8's, they are one of my favourite monitors.


----------



## cladane

Hello,
  
 Joe is very proud of his headphones and he is right.
 With my Egoista so powerful, dynamic and transparent (what is the 845 tube with very high level Output Transformers), Abyss are obviously awesome headphones.
  
 But I agree with @Yoga and @mulder01, those are not transparent headphones and people ready to spend such an amount to purchase them have been definitely convinced by their own particular character.
 EQ'ing them would be counterproductive.
  
 Nobody changes a winning experience.
  
 Claude


----------



## Yoga

ufospls2 said:


> Very true. I suppose you could send your Abyss to Sonarworks as they do individual headphones for customers. Don't know how accurate it would be, as the Abyss has a different fit on every head, so their test head for getting the response curve would be different than your head. How much that would influence the results, I have no idea.
> 
> Jealous that you have the twotwo.8's, they are one of my favourite monitors.


 

 I am tempted, but as you say, fit is so critical to the sound their calibration may be completely pointless. Hard to tell as the Abyss are so unique.
  
 The TwoTwo 8's are a dream, especially with the Sub2. The sound they produce (especially after SWR3 calibration) is mind blowing. Better than many $$$ audiophile setups I've heard!
  
 Do you produce/engineer yourself?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

No worries Yoga. Where I was going with this is what others mentioned, there really is no reference flat response curve in headphones (we could bring into question speakers as well. Not that it matters, if there is strong artistic intent, I would think in the end it's going to sound the way you want it to regardless.

You can set an EQ for the headphones by ear to fit your mastering tastes, would be the same thing Sonarworks would have to had done to create what they use as a reference curve, that or borrow research from the likes of another such as Harman. Certainly though I can see where different tunings would be better suited for the task of mastering, however I [obviously] feel Abyss is best suited for playback of the master.

IMO, it's very cool to be able to play music mastered in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, and 10's.. enjoying decades of artistic styles through one pair of headphones. Abyss is all my years of obsessing over the playback of recorded music wrapped into one product. We were fortunate to have the right combination of skill sets and resources to make it a reality.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

@yoga, my son Jason downloaded the Sonarworks trial for speakers and mic'd his room with a set of M Audio's on a desk. Said it made a significant difference, Claire Marlo's voice now sounds like the old B&W 801''s and that kevlar midrange straight out of 1990. Always loved that midrange driver with female vocals.


----------



## Beolab

joe skubinski said:


> @yoga, my son Jason downloaded the Sonarworks trial for speakers and mic'd his room with a set of M Audio's on a desk. Said it made a significant difference, Claire Marlo's voice now sounds like the old B&W 801''s and that kevlar midrange straight out of 1990. Always loved that midrange driver with female vocals.




Next up would be to install small microphones in Jasons ears and put the Abyss on his head, and start calibrate and see what the result will be.


----------



## isquirrel

I don’t know if any of you are into Dylon, I am not really but he has just won the Nobel prize for Literature, Patti Smith sang his nominated song. It certainly bought a tear to my eyes. Even if you are not into either its worth watching and listening to the lyrics.
  
Oh, what did you see, my blue-eyed son?
Oh, what did you see, my darling young one?
I saw a newborn baby with wild wolves all around it
I saw a highway of diamonds with nobody on it
I saw a black branch with blood that kept drippin’
I saw a room full of men with their hammers a-bleedin’
I saw a white ladder all covered with water
I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken
I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children
And it’s a hard, and it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard
And it’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall
  
http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/a-transcendent-patti-smith-accepts-bob-dylans-nobel-prize
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVXQaOhpfJU
  
​Hope you all enjoy.


----------



## isquirrel

Decided to give Joe's work with KR Tubes a go. Chances are high that they will be outstanding if Joe has anything to do them. The following are on their way.
  
 300B Balloon HP
 2A3 HP
 274B HP


----------



## isquirrel

Be interesting to see how they go compared to these. Finally got my hands on a decent pair. Heavenly is the only way to describe the midrange.


----------



## Yoga

joe skubinski said:


> @yoga, my son Jason downloaded the Sonarworks trial for speakers and mic'd his room with a set of M Audio's on a desk. Said it made a significant difference, Claire Marlo's voice now sounds like the old B&W 801''s and that kevlar midrange straight out of 1990. Always loved that midrange driver with female vocals.


 

 Glad he's enjoying it! B&W801s - classic!


----------



## ufospls2

yoga said:


> I am tempted, but as you say, fit is so critical to the sound their calibration may be completely pointless. Hard to tell as the Abyss are so unique.
> 
> The TwoTwo 8's are a dream, especially with the Sub2. The sound they produce (especially after SWR3 calibration) is mind blowing. Better than many $$$ audiophile setups I've heard!
> 
> Do you produce/engineer yourself?


 
 I used to, but I just do it for fun now, nothing serious. I haven't heard the TwoTwo8's with a sub, that must be fantastic.


----------



## Stereolab42

I missed reading about these tubes. Is there a US distributor?
  
 Quote:


isquirrel said:


> Decided to give Joe's work with KR Tubes a go. Chances are high that they will be outstanding if Joe has anything to do them. The following are on their way.
> 
> 300B Balloon HP
> 2A3 HP
> 274B HP


----------



## ufospls2

stereolab42 said:


>


 
 http://www.theevolutionofsound.com/kr-audio/


----------



## draytonklammer

Has anyone ever got hair in under that net looking piece that I assume protects the diaphragm?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Man, I am really impressed by Lotoo Paw Gold (Diana Edition). It is the ONLY DAP (digital audio player) that drives my Abyss _effectively _and also drive in-ear headphones without noise.


----------



## mulder01

It really is a nice little device.  Just need to buy a 3.5mm abyss cable cause at the moment the adapters are bigger than the player... 
 Have been waiting for an all-in-one portable solution for the Abyss for a long time and it's finally here!


----------



## Xecuter

draytonklammer said:


> Has anyone ever got hair in under that net looking piece that I assume protects the diaphragm?


 
 Whatever you do don't go after it with anything metal. They will get sucked into it. I do a very light air clean using dental surgical vacuum and air blast every six months.


----------



## mulder01

Someone in the Stax thread was asking if he could clean the diaphragm with a spray on cleaner and cloth... He was serious.


----------



## Yoga

mulder01 said:


> Someone in the Stax thread was asking if he could clean the diaphragm with a spray on cleaner and cloth... He was serious.


 

 !!!!!!


----------



## Beolab

Received my Uptone Ultra-capacitor LPS-1 FPGA power supply that i power one of my W4s Remedy femto clocks with ( before i powered them with batterys) , the clarity / separation / timing and the definition was very much better than before! 

Can highly emrecomend it! 

I take of my hat for Alex Crespi @ Uptone

So now the Abyss sings like never before!


----------



## ufospls2

I have never heard this amp, so can't speak to its sonic qualities, but if anyone is looking for a lot of power at a cheap price, this might be worth a look. Supposedly some HE-6 owners like this amp, so it might do well with the Abyss. 
  
 https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/100


----------



## Joe Skubinski

These photos from last year were great!

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!


----------



## Stereolab42

ufospls2 said:


> http://www.theevolutionofsound.com/kr-audio/


 
  
 Yup, they have them, but they are not cheap. Might wait for isquirrel's impressions first. I already have two outstanding pairs of 300Bs (SERPs and EML mesh).


----------



## mulder01

The new portable sitting on top of the desktop rig.  Who says you need 2 pairs of headphones


----------



## stersa

One of the best sound experiences with your Abyss
  

  
 https://open.spotify.com/album/0otC2s8AupBtfGUe0UUhYg
  
 Enjoy....Happy Holidays
  
 Regards
  
 Sisco


----------



## ufospls2

mulder01 said:


> The new portable sitting on top of the desktop rig.  Who says you need 2 pairs of headphones


 
 Looks great! You must have a small head though...or something. Thats a pretty big bend inwards.


----------



## Yoga

stersa said:


> One of the best sound experiences with your Abyss
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hah! Fun :¬)


----------



## stersa

Another Great Playlist...
  
 https://open.spotify.com/user/spotify/playlist/1a1OB7jjf6bcuvJnmO5WaD
  


 Enjoy
  
 Regards
  
 Sisco


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> The new portable sitting on top of the desktop rig.  Who says you need 2 pairs of headphones




How does it sound, do the dedicated Abyss DAP got the power to make the Abyss to fully bloom like your violectric ? 

A small review would be nice 

Merry Christmas! ✨:santa_tone2:

/ Fredrik


----------



## mulder01

ufospls2 said:


> Looks great! You must have a small head though...or something. Thats a pretty big bend inwards.


 
  
 Actually, I have a big melon head.  The headband is fully extended out in the middle, but if you just get the arms of the frame and bend them out to make them wider, the pad touches my head at the top, but there is a massive gap at the bottom because I need more of a V shape than a.... umm upside down V... so I've rolled out the top part of the curve in the headband to make it wider, and then made a sharper bend at the end of the curve to angle it back inwards... if that makes any sense.  I posted this picture ages ago of what I did:  (Drew circles on it so you can see the diameter of the bend of the first part of the curve against the second part)...
  

  
  
 I've got a few people to try it (with smaller heads) and they've liked the shape of it (with the headband collapsed a bit more and velcro done up a bit tighter).  
  
  


beolab said:


> How does it sound, do the dedicated Abyss DAP got the power to make the Abyss to fully bloom ?
> 
> I small review would be nice
> 
> ...


 
  
 It is a bit light-on in power compared with the amp underneath it (as you could imagine it is about 20x it's size).  But nice sounding and easily configurable to any sound signature you like.  Will do a bit of a better write up when I have spent some more time with it (and it's not Christmas day )  My 3.5mm Abyss cable only just arrived on Friday as well.  Merry Christmas to you too!


----------



## Yoga

Anyone had any luck/fun EQ'ing the Abyss?


----------



## Sonic Guild

Which is warmer, Utopia or Abyss? 
 Thanks


----------



## mulder01

sonic guild said:


> Which is warmer, Utopia or Abyss?
> Thanks


 
  
 Hey I've seen you on a few other threads!
  
 I notice the Abyss is the only thing missing from your collection now...


----------



## deuter

sonic guild said:


> Which is warmer, Utopia or Abyss?
> Thanks


 
 I so need to try the Utopia, people say it was designed like speakers.
 I have heard the Abyss which is phenomenal, I can only think what the Utopia's would be.


----------



## AlanYWM

sonic guild said:


> Which is warmer, Utopia or Abyss?
> Thanks


 
  
 I would be quite surprised if someone said the Utopia is warmer sounding than the Abyss


----------



## up late

deuter said:


> I so need to try the Utopia, people say it was designed like speakers.
> I have heard the Abyss which is phenomenal, I can only think what the Utopia's would be.


 

they sounded more like exceptional headphones to me than loudpeakers


----------



## mulder01

up late said:


> they sounded more like exceptional headphones to me than loudpeakers


 
  
 Hey!  It must have been like 6 months since I last saw you in this thread.  Then suddenly, as soon as someone mentions headphones being like speakers, BAM!  He's back in like a jug of kool aid bursting through the wall.
  
  
  
 ...I'm going to add 'lolz', even though I feel like it was implied.


----------



## up late

er, your vigilance is noted. keep up the good work.


----------



## Sonic Guild

up late said:


> they sounded more like exceptional headphones to me than loudpeakers


 

 I agree.
 I posted somewhere else:
 In my opinion, nothing like speakers at all.
 I own the Utopia and it has nothing to do with speakers. 
 Yes the Utopia bests any speakers in terms of resolution, but sound stage, imaging and separation NO WAY. Speakers are speakers PERIOD. 
 But let me confirm that the Utopia disappears after 10 min of listening, how? 
 It feels that both drivers are connected, where music flows IN BETWEEN your ears. Goddam it I can not describe it!
 Let me try again, it feels like music flowing across your head, where there is no sense of left driver and right driver. BUT still the sound comes from the sides of your head NOT from the front like any other 2 channels stereo system.


----------



## Sonic Guild

alanywm said:


> I would be quite surprised if someone said the Utopia is warmer sounding than the Abyss


 

 The Utopia is my *limit* in brightness and this is why I want to make *sure* that the Abyss is *NOT* brighter by any mean. I am too close to pull the trigger on the Abyss.


----------



## matthewhypolite

alanywm said:


> I would be quite surprised if someone said the Utopia is warmer sounding than the Abyss


 
  
 After burn in i do think the Utopia is warmer than the Abyss. The utopias have a more warm, lush, full bodied tone to my ears. Vs the abyss which whiles more expansive sounding, is more aggressive in both the high and low registers.


----------



## negura

sonic guild said:


> Which is warmer, Utopia or Abyss?
> Thanks


 
  
 Quote:


deuter said:


> I so need to try the Utopia, people say it was designed like speakers.
> I have heard the Abyss which is phenomenal, I can only think what the Utopia's would be.


 
  
 There's a lot of excitement around the Utopia, which is understandable considering they are the latest pretenders at the "better/best" headphones title. That said I found nothing like speakers about them other than they reproduce sound in a relatively linear way. Or any other headphones for the matter. The most stand-out features about speakers compared to headphones, including Utopia and the Abyss, imo are:
 - the way they image (two channel sound originating in front of the listener from significant space)
 - recreate a much more realistic soundstage and much truer to scale sound 
 - physicality of sound waves more akeen to both amplified live or recording studio sound (they use speakers doh) or acoustic concerts. I can see a parallel some could try to make here, but I don't agree with this. Pulsating ear lobe waves is not at all the same thing.
  
 YMMV somewhat depending on details.
  
 Following that introduction, one of the great weaknesses the Utopia have, is their stage is very small, even for flagship headphones standards. Utopia staging is more akeen to some really good closed headphones. The Abyss sound more spatious and open. The Utopia stage can be described as tunnel like: narrow, but very deep. Some really dig this aspect. I am a little biased against any headphones staging because of speakers listening, so I try to keep an open mind, but even so, the Utopia sounded a bit too damn small for a flagship.
  
 In regards to timbre, Utopia have a specific coloration, unlike any other headphones (probably due to the Be driver material). I prefer the Abyss or most planars in this regard. However where the Utopia are better imo, is in how clear and precise they sound and how well they can image despite the small stage they have.

  
   The Utopia imo are neither warm nor bright, they are very close to neutral. I prefer a neutral sound, and the Abyss are in the same ballpark too. If someone likes the Abyss I don't see why they wouldn't like the tonality of the Utopia. The Abyss felt edgier in the treble, whereas the Utopia had a 3-6k dip, then a peak, but overall quite smooth. The Utopia don't match the energy and viscerality some planars are capable of.


----------



## knopi

As big fan of planars headphone I want really try the Abyss now. Thanks for experience Negura.


----------



## mulder01

sonic guild said:


> The Utopia is my *limit* in brightness and this is why I want to make *sure* that the Abyss is *NOT* brighter by any mean. I am too close to pull the trigger on the Abyss.


 
  
 From your collection, I would have said that the LCD3 and HD800 are a lot more in-your-face sounding.  The Abyss have a more relaxed sound than those two IMO.  The LCD-4 is even more relaxed again.  Don't know where the Utopia fits into that though.
  
 If you have found something to enjoy out of every headphone in your signature so far, but don't find anything to like about the Abyss, I will be floored, because for me it was the opposite - after I heard the Abyss, I couldn't find anything to like about any of the other flagships I had tried.  
  
 Different strokes 'n that tho...


----------



## mulder01

Okay, so I've had a little bit of time with the Lotoo PAW Gold Diana edition now.  I'm not a super frequent listener, so it's only been through one battery charge at the moment and I'm not much of a reviewer, so this is just more a few comments on why I like it rather than a traditional in depth review...
  

  
 First of all - does a DAP really have enough power to properly drive the Abyss?  Yes.  Yes it does.  With one caveat, which some may find a problem and some may not.  I noted something on two of my test tracks - "Royals" by Lorde and "The Devil Wears A Suit" by Kate Miller-Heidke.  These tracks, at the start, seem like quiet recordings with the vocals a bit lower than the 'normal' volume for a lot of CDs, prompting you to turn it up, but both tracks have deep thumping bass at a level well above the vocals, so if you turn it up to a point where the vocals are loud, proper loud, like you (I) do when auditioning, you get distortion in the bass.  However, these tracks were probably the exception.  I noted on a couple of other bassy electronic music tracks "Do It Again" by Royksopp & Robyn, and a couple of tracks off Daft Punk's "Random Access Memories" - "Get Lucky" and "Instant Crush" that this was not an issue, (different mastering approach?) and I could have it as loud as I would ever listen without any problems.  I was at Xecuter's house the other day and he gave "Royals" a listen and I told him to turn it up loud so he could see what I was talking about.  He didn't get it to distortion levels and looked at me and said "You're listening too loud".  He was probably right.  After my initial testing, I had a bit of a longer listen and realised that my normal listening volume doesn't reach levels high enough to cause a problem anyway, even with the two tracks that I mentioned.  I hope that gives some sort of idea on the limitations of the amp in this unit.  I figured the number one thing people would be interested in, as far as this DAP goes, is "How's the power tho?  Really?"  Hopefully that gives you some sort of idea of where you can draw the line with this unit.  If you listen to rock, for example, and turn the volume up until the VU meter goes into the red from a guitar, that's way above comfortable listening volume for me, so it's not an issue on stuff like AC/DC or Rage Against The Machine.  Or anything else that I listened to for that matter.
  
 How does it sound?  Well, sound signature wise, it sounds however you want it to sound... With built in DSP (ATE?) and parametric EQ, you can pretty much tune it to your preferred sound signature.  Both Xecuter and I prefered the "Sweet" ATE setting over the off/standard setting with the Abyss.  It just makes it a bit warmer and more rounded off.  Probably the best recording I have is the album "Ys" by Joanna Newsom which is female voal with an orchestral background and turning the ATE/PMEQ off helps bring out a bit more detail in the orchestra which is nice on that album.  There is a preset named "Dental" if you want it a bit more clinical again, but it's too much for me personally.
  
 Sound QUALITY wise, I can't fault it.  As per the disclaimer above, I'm not the most critical listener on the forum so I don't want to comment in detail on every specific aspect of the sound - I haven't done extensive AB testing with a number of other DAC/amp combos so I don't feel confident enough to make very detailed comparisons.  But Mike (HiFiGuy) mentioned in another thread that with the Abyss, the LPG bested the AK380+Amp (at double the price) in pretty much every way, and Xecuter (despite his initial skepticism) said it was the best DAP he had heard.  My desktop amp is a Violectric v281 which I've been very happy with for a couple of years now, with nothing about it making me want to look for another amp.  In fact, I had mentioned to a couple of v281 + WA5 owners that I would like to try/own a WA5 one day and they both told me to basically not bother as there wasn't really much in it.  There are also a number of v281 owners who have made the switch from the highly regarded Moon 430HA.  Pretty much everyone who has tried this amp has been surprised.  Yoga just bought one and said the difference between it and the 600i was 'close' (without having the two side by side though).  Anyway, what I was trying to say was the v281 is a perfectly acceptable end game amp for a lot of people - not just IMO.  Is there a massive difference between the v281 and the LPG Diana?  Not really.  Not for me anyway.  There is still the nice wide Abyss soundstage and the killer low end (with the limitation I mentioned) and gobs of detail.
  
 The thing that won me over (that a lot of people think is pointless) is the portability.  I've been waiting a long time for a DAP that I can plug the Abyss straight into without any other auxiliary devices.  I went as far as to get Joe to make me a new Abyss cable 4ft long terminated to a 3.5mm plug to get the full portable experience minus bulky adapters.  I feel like I should add that Joe was great with the whole process - He has been sympathetic to my cause of a portable Abyss setup over the years and has looked after me well.  After I transferred the money on Tuesday night, there was someone knocking on my door with the cable at noon on Friday.  (Last postage day before Christmas).  I know people have been very excited about the new DHC cable, but 5 grand and 5 months wait... I just couldn't justify it.  Anyway, people always think that just because I want a portable player it means I want to wear the Abyss on public transport/ going for a run/ walking the dog etc.  But it's not about that.  For me personally, I just found that I since I bought the Abyss, even though it was better than previous headphones, I used it less because it meant I was chained to the desk, and I found that using a computer as source, I had a lot of distractions in front of me.  I'd put on some music, then one song into my session, I'd remember I had to send an email, or I'd look on the forum or Facebook etc and find myself not really listening intently.  With this player I can take it wherever I want away from distractions and just immerse myself in the music more.  I was laying on the bed the other day with my eyes closed thinking that I was noticing stuff in recordings that I hadn't noticed before.  Is it because the LPG's on board amp is better than the v281?  Probably not.  But because I was more switched off to the outside world, my mind was more focused on the music and I appreciated what I was hearing more.  I also like that it is one device - no adapters, no interconnects, no separate chargers, everything is all in one - it has a long battery life and a percentage readout of how much battery is left.  With other portable solutions I had in the past, you might have 3 devices and a bunch of adapters to carry around, then you finally get settled down to listen and one device goes flat because there is no way to know how much charge is left.  
  
 I feel like I should also mention the thing that made me pull the trigger on this is Joe's personal recommendation.  Now, of course the skeptic in all of us would make the link that - well, he has an interest in the product so of course he'd going to tell people it's good.  However, I noticed he posted a photo from a meet a while back of the JPS section of a show.  There were two pairs of Abyss side by side plugged into two LPGs.  To me, that inspired a lot of confidence because people head to these shows to audition gear.  Every company's competition is set up right next to them.  Therefore every manufacturer is going to want to show off their product in the best possible light, because if you are trying to convince people to buy one of the world's most expensive production headphones, you want it to sound as good as possible.  There's dozens of people going to this show and hearing the Abyss for the first time and heading home to share their thoughts to an even broader audience.  So for Joe to be basically saying to people "come and hear the Abyss - here you go" and hand them a pair connected to nothing but a PAW gold, knowing that sales and reputation are riding on it, well, that shows a lot of confidence in the product to me.  Because if it's sub par, people walk away thinking your headphone is just 'ok' when in fact, it was the source letting it down.  
  

  
 I'm sure there are people this device will not suit - some people listen to exclusively to piano music or pipe organ music or... whatever and have played this instrument themselves their whole life and have gone through half a dozen amps and/or tubes trying to find the best possible pairing that gives that exact timbre they've been searching for.  Will this player convince those people to sell their setups?  Probably not.  If you listen to mostly streaming services, this is going to be no good to you.  No wifi etc.  But for someone who moves around a lot and doesn't want to cart a desktop setup around from place to place or someone who wants to have a setup for a second room or occasionally sit outside on the deck and enjoy most of what the Abyss has to offer, then this would be ideal.  I, myself, am thinking of using it as my main setup because the benefits outweigh the disadvantages for me (of which I am hard pressed to think of any).  Also, I have discovered that laying on the bed gives me the added advantage of taking the weight off my head, as the bed supports the 'phones.  I'm sure this would be an advantage for many other Abyss users who have weight issues.
  
 How can a little player the size of one Abyss earpad possibly sound as good as a desktop setup?  I don't know.  They've crammed a high capacity battery, a UI + screen, a DSD DAC and an amp in there, so you'd expect sonic compromises coming from everywhere but that is not the case.  Maybe the best, noise free power comes from a completely independent DC source.  The best USB cable and interconnect is NO USB cable and interconnect.  Every time you add another link to the chain you add losses?  Don't know.  Point is, I can understand why people would be skeptical of it - look how teeny tiny it is.  But it's really nowhere near as **** as you're probably thinking.   Rather the contrary - It really is a nice little piece of kit.  I think a lot of people would be pleasantly surprised.
  
 So tldr;
 Is nice
 I recommend


----------



## up late

ok


----------



## Yoga

Impressive little unit - thanks for the review :¬)


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> Okay, so I've had a little bit of time with the Lotoo PAW Gold Diana edition now.  I'm not a super frequent listener, so it's only been through one battery charge at the moment and I'm not much of a reviewer, so this is just more a few comments on why I like it rather than a traditional in depth review...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Very impressive and a easy understandable write-up on how it sounds and performe! 

If it only had got a wifi and Tidal MQA , maybe they will be forced to introduce that in upcoming editions. 
And what about balanced output on the Gold. 


Another micro-setup if you had a 3,5mm stereo jack instead of 4-pin XLR with some adapters, this setup is one of the smallest, but the AQ RED 2.1v output can just play the Abyss to about 50-65% tops, then on the last volume step it starts to distort.


----------



## odanovich

Would powering the Abyss with a Mojo be a waste of its potential?


----------



## ufospls2

odanovich said:


> Would powering the Abyss with a Mojo be a waste of its potential?


 
 Depends on how loud you listen. I power my Abyss with a Mojo sometimes and it sounds great, but it can be better. If you like to listen at louder(ish) levels, you will likely run into clipping issues with the Mojo. I've found the Abyss really do benefit from some good power behind them, so if you had a desktop set up as well as the Mojo that would be preferable. I think it was mulder01 who said, and I'm paraphrasing here, "an underdriven Abyss is better than no Abyss at all." I agree with that. YMMV and all that though


----------



## Beolab

odanovich said:


> Would powering the Abyss with a Mojo be a waste of its potential?




Yes, you can, i got a few mojo's laying around and you loose some dynamic and the soundstage are a bit narrow and thin in comparison if you connect the Mojo to a amp with great Current Amping power or choose the new Ifi iDSD Black Label with huge power and big low end dynamics with great control. 

 The integrated DAC in the new Black Label is not as musical and the timing is not on pair with Mojo, it got a diffrent presentation, with more details, but Mojo got better resolution depht and feels more real. One drawback with the iDSD B L is the analog none bit perfect volume control where you are loosing slight transparancy to the source. 

But if i was stranded on a lonely island ( Think Castaway) and i had to choose one DAC/AMP product for my Abyss with these contesters: Mojo / Hugo or iDSD Black Label, i would choose the Black Label all day long.., because its more fun to listen to and you do not get any listening fatigue, and moves you with the great rhythm with its slightly warmer big dynamic "High-End-feel" sound= 
Great synergy with the Abyss.

Can highly recommend this new product as a compliment and more moving-around friendly 


Did a fun test to connect the Mojo to the Analog input on the Ifi with a great result.


----------



## mulder01

odanovich said:


> Would powering the Abyss with a Mojo be a waste of its potential?


 
  
 I wouldn't let amping concerns stop someone from buying an Abyss.  It's easy to get pressured into thinking you need to spend 5 figures on a dac and amp for it, but after buying mine, I tried powering it will much 'lesser' pieces of gear, just for a laugh, only to discover it was still really good.  Not super fussy audiophile perfect, but still very nice.


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> I wouldn't let amping concerns stop someone from buying an Abyss.  It's easy to get pressured into thinking you need to spend 5 figures on a dac and amp for it, but after buying mine, I tried powering it will much 'lesser' pieces of gear, just for a laugh, only to discover it was still really good.  Not super fussy audiophile perfect, but still very nice.




Yes as i said in my last post you can actually drive the Abyss straight from a Chord Mojo , Hugo or a A&K 120 / 380 player, with a descent result when it comes to resolution, timbre, great mids and some low end actually, but do sound a little flattened and lifeless without any EQ:ing, so the Abyss most of the time are just on idle and does not break a sweat at all from what they can do regardless of the Vol. level under right circumstances with proper gear.
So with a dac like a A&K , Hugo or a Mojo i would recommend to connect it at least to a
 Ifi iCan SE amp or a iDSD micro B L for the full blast bloom of dynamics / visceral effects, if we are speaking of the more economical setups.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

mulder01 said:


> Okay, so I've had a little bit of time with the Lotoo PAW Gold Diana edition now.  I'm not a super frequent listener, so it's only been through one battery charge at the moment and I'm not much of a reviewer, so this is just more a few comments on why I like it rather than a traditional in depth review...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm getting close to 200 hrs. on my Lotoo Diana Edition. So far, it's been really impressive with every headphones (full-size or IEM). I really enjoy that it forces me into listening to music and not check the internet or Facebook because it doesn't have WiFi. Another thing is since it doesn't show the artwork, I didn't have to OCD and "fix" each album before I can enjoy them after syncing my music.


----------



## Jozurr

Im planning to buy the Abyss. I want to know if you guys think the Cavalli Liquid Glass tube amp will be good enough to drive them (6W into 50 Ohms), or I can do better under let's say $3K? I already own the Glass and like it with many headphones, so if I buy something, it'll be for the Abyss.
  
 From a fit perspective, from what I understand, the best is with the earpads lightly touching your head, but not quite covering the ears, and the fat part of the earpads positioned at the bottom when looking at the Abyss upright?


----------



## Hansotek

jozurr said:


> Im planning to buy the Abyss. I want to know if you guys think the Cavalli Liquid Glass tube amp will be good enough to drive them (6W into 50 Ohms), or I can do better under let's say $3K? I already own the Glass and like it with many headphones, so if I buy something, it'll be for the Abyss.
> 
> From a fit perspective, from what I understand, the best is with the earpads lightly touching your head, but not quite covering the ears, and the fat part of the earpads positioned at the bottom when looking at the Abyss upright?




I'd at least try it with the Liquid Glass first. It would probably sound awesome with some big, dynamic tubes (IIRC, the Shuguang tubes were great in this regard... I should double check, I'm sure I made a comment about it in the Cavalli upgrade thread). I don't think I ever heard the two together though. I can tell you it matches beautifully with the Liquid Gold.

The earpad positioning is kind of a personal thing. I usually keep the seam around 4 or 5 o'clock, so the thicker part is up top and there is a little more gap at the bottom.

For other options under $3k, I really can't say enough good things about the Wells Milo. It drives the hell out of the Abyss. If you're interested, I reviewed it here: http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1216/Wells_Audio_Milo_Headphone_Amplifier_Review.htm


----------



## mulder01

Ok, so, after thinking about it or about two years and doing absolutely nothing about it, this weekend I decided to make my own headband for the Abyss.  
 As you all know, you can't use a normal clamping headband with these headphones because the drivers just have to lightly touch your head.  So I did a bunch of measurements of how I had mine set up (I never really adjust it) and moulded a couple of bands out of acrylic that fit my head and hold the drivers in the right spot for my head.  
 Was a fair bit of trial and error trying to get all the angles and distances exactly right, but I think it's worked out to be a very good fit.  
 The photos aren't great but I think you get the idea - there's a main internal headband with a doubled over bit of material for padding with some hard rubber/plastic spacers on the end and another thin band over the top to strengthen the ends of the headband that support the driver.  Then I have just used the 3 existing holes in the driver frame that hold them to the standard headband and bolted the drivers onto my own band.  An easily reversible mod if I ever wanted to go back or sell.
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
 Shaved about 50g of weight off the stock headband and spread the weight over a larger area of my head so hopefully I can wear them for longer without issues.  Time will tell.  Hopefully it wasn't a weekend wasted.  Obviously this is no good for a production product as it is custom fit to my head and the chances of it being exactly right for someone else are slim.  But that's okay because nobody else listens to it... 
 Looks a bit less frankensteiney too...


----------



## Yoga

jozurr said:


> Im planning to buy the Abyss. I want to know if you guys think the Cavalli Liquid Glass tube amp will be good enough to drive them (6W into 50 Ohms), or I can do better under let's say $3K? I already own the Glass and like it with many headphones, so if I buy something, it'll be for the Abyss.
> 
> From a fit perspective, from what I understand, the best is with the earpads lightly touching your head, but not quite covering the ears, and the fat part of the earpads positioned at the bottom when looking at the Abyss upright?


 
  
 The Violectric V281 drives them wonderfully too. 
  


mulder01 said:


> Ok, so, after thinking about it or about two years and doing absolutely nothing about it, this weekend I decided to make my own headband for the Abyss.  <snip>


 
  
 Nice work buddy! Looks great.

 I love the before and after shots, reminds me of all those weight loss photos you see; #sadface in the first pic, little grin in the second


----------



## mulder01

yoga said:


> The Violectric V281 drives them wonderfully too.


 
  
 +1
  


yoga said:


> I love the before and after shots, reminds me of all those weight loss photos you see; #sadface in the first pic, little grin in the second


 
  
 lol I didn't notice that - was not intentional...


----------



## Mystel

Got a DAVE and Prion4s in last week to match with my still favourite headphone 
 Id say the prion does help smooth out the signature and make it more listenable for extended periods of time.
 Really really liking the sound so far


----------



## nepherte

mystel said:


> Got a DAVE and Prion4s in last week to match with my still favourite headphone
> Id say the prion does help smooth out the signature and make it more listenable for extended periods of time.
> Really really liking the sound so far


 

 How are you powering the Abyss? Connected straight to the DAVE or do you use an amplifier? Quite curious how this sounds!


----------



## Nik

I don't find the Prion4 smooth sound at all...


----------



## Yoga

nik said:


> I don't find the Prion4 smooth sound at all...


 

 Care to elaborate?


----------



## Nik

The Prion4 with my setup (Vitus/Headtrip/Abyss) do not give any smooth sound, I can find on it a lot of dynamic, detail, very powerful and clean bass and first of all a fantastic soundstage and separation of the instruments and voices... This respect to the stock jps cable...


----------



## Beolab

Yes= the the Headtrips own signature shines through here, i know because i have previously owned the same setup ( not the Vitus CD-player but MSB Analog / DAVE / Aurender as a source) and i find the Prion 4 to be very smooth sounding with a nice shimmering resolution without any harshness at all and you will notice that if you try it on a diffrent setup vs Stock cable or other after market ditos.


----------



## Mystel

nepherte said:


> How are you powering the Abyss? Connected straight to the DAVE or do you use an amplifier? Quite curious how this sounds!


 
 Yes direct out of the DAVE.I used to use the abyss with a ragnarok and WA5
 But due to recent space constrains , i had to sell both of those lmao. 
 Even though it doesnt quite have the amazing visceral and engaging presentation that will come with a more powerful amp, Id say direct out of the DAVE is a pairing i can live with. I find the DAVEs internal amp to be liquidy sweet and organic and from memory, i dont think ive ever heard the abyss sounding this clean and transparent. Was using the stock cables all the while which i found to be relatively more punchy and grainy. With the prion, music just flows effortlessly. 
 Im not very good at describing sound signatures but I tried 
 Will venture back into big amps in the future, but right now i need a compact setup.


----------



## Jozurr

mystel said:


> Yes direct out of the DAVE.I used to use the abyss with a ragnarok and WA5
> But due to recent space constrains , i had to sell both of those lmao.
> Even though it doesnt quite have the amazing visceral and engaging presentation that will come with a more powerful amp, Id say direct out of the DAVE is a pairing i can live with. I find the DAVEs internal amp to be liquidy sweet and organic and from memory, i dont think ive ever heard the abyss sounding this clean and transparent. Was using the stock cables all the while which i found to be relatively more punchy and grainy. With the prion, music just flows effortlessly.
> Im not very good at describing sound signatures but I tried
> Will venture back into big amps in the future, but right now i need a compact setup.


 
  
 How did you like the sound out of the Ragnarok and how did it compare to the WA5?


----------



## Nik

beolab said:


> Yes= the the Headtrips own signature shines through here, i know because i have previously owned the same setup ( not the Vitus CD-player but MSB Analog / DAVE / Aurender as a source) and i find the Prion 4 to be very smooth sounding with a nice shimmering resolution without any harshness at all and you will notice that if you try it on a diffrent setup vs Stock cable or other after market ditos.




Yeah... May be I misunderstanding the word smooth... With the Prion4 the Headtrip take all the transparency I have with the Dave direct... Unfortunately the Dave do not has the two xlr headphones output... I have the DHC Prion4 jack stereo adapter, but not the same as two xlr (even if the Headtrip not fully balanced amp...).


----------



## Beolab

Yes yo'll get more of the less analytical grainy sound with Prion 4 if combined with DAVE for example.


----------



## Mystel

jozurr said:


> How did you like the sound out of the Ragnarok and how did it compare to the WA5?


 
 I mainly used both with a yggy connected direct from my imac with usb
 Raggy was nice , clean fast and transparent. I quite liked the pairing a bit. But i did find it to be fatiguing in a sense that it sounded kinda dry after longer listening periods. Wasnt something that stood out initially, but it does become noticable after some headtime on them. Nevertheless, pretty nice pairing, bass was tight and fast, mids were clean and detailed while treble was nicely rolled off 
 I only acquired the wa5 last month, and sadly i only had a month with them due to space contrains. Mine was the non le version, with the royal princess 300b tubes and c3g tubes that my friend recommended to me. This time, the bass had more body to it. It had this really engaing and intimate tone. Mids were really really rich and thick, something that really surprised me. Treble was well, not very extended but its still there. I found this much more suited for long listening sessions, and personally i liked it more than the rag
 Both are really good pairings with the abyss, though im pretty sure they arent the best.
 Im sorry i cant give really detailed impressions, but i tried


----------



## Beolab

Sitting in my listeningroom playing MQA tracks from Tidal (Enya) ( not that big diffrence with MQA when you already owns one of the worlds best DACś =) , connected to my favourite amp Moon 600i and playing through probably the best headphones ever built i have to say, after testing every single high end headphone on the market incl the new Orpheus. 
I got 80.000$ speakers at my work and they got breathtaking dynamics and sound, but the the Abyss have equal or even better qualities than most High End speakers even. 

That is remarkable and they are truly special and uniqe in every area! 

Just wanted to chare this with every one, because we most of the time just discussing technicalities , amps , cables , dac's , tweaks etc, but we forget to write a little on how we in fact like our headphones


----------



## Jozurr

I hope I can share the same kind of enthusiasm for them as I do for my HE-6 
  
 Maybe these are the funktion one system Im looking for in headphones.


----------



## lojay

beolab said:


> Sitting in my listeningroom playing MQA tracks from Tidal (Enya) ( not that big diffrence with MQA when you already owns one of the worlds best DACś =) , connected to my favourite amp Moon 600i and playing through probably the best headphones ever built i have to say, after testing every single high end headphone on the market incl the new Orpheus.
> I got 80.000$ speakers at my work and they got breathtaking dynamics and sound, but the the Abyss have equal or even better qualities than most High End speakers even.
> 
> That is remarkable and they are truly special and uniqe in every area!
> ...


Are you running this through the DAVE? Do you prefer going through the Moon amp or directly out of the DAVE?


----------



## Yoga

Abyss + 600i is a match made in headphone heaven!

 Finding myself tempted to try the DAVE (again).


----------



## ufospls2

jozurr said:


> I hope I can share the same kind of enthusiasm for them as I do for my HE-6
> 
> Maybe these are the funktion one system Im looking for in headphones.


 
 The Abyss are the closest I have found to a Berghain session headphones wise


----------



## astrostar59

beolab said:


> Sitting in my listeningroom playing MQA tracks from Tidal (Enya) ( not that big diffrence with MQA when you already owns one of the worlds best DACś =) , connected to my favourite amp Moon 600i and playing through probably the best headphones ever built i have to say, after testing every single high end headphone on the market incl the new Orpheus.
> I got 80.000$ speakers at my work and they got breathtaking dynamics and sound, but the the Abyss have equal or even better qualities than most High End speakers even.
> 
> That is remarkable and they are truly special and uniqe in every area!
> ...


 

 Nice post. I posts lots of emotional stuff on the Stax threads. I totally agree with you in this. Once you get it right, DAC - Amp - HPs working together (synergy) it is magical. TBH I believe the need to get that synergy correct may be even more important with HPs than speaker systems. The reason I think that is they are, after all stuck right up to your ear and you hear EVERYTHING. No place to hide.


----------



## Jozurr

ufospls2 said:


> The Abyss are the closest I have found to a Berghain session headphones wise




Surprised you mention that  

Best system Ive ever heard anywhere and Ive been to a good number of clubs worldwide. It was just crazy how good a system can sound. Really curious to try the abyss. If they get me any closer to that sound, I'd be very happy. 

What is your chain for the Abyss?


----------



## astrostar59

ufospls2 said:


> jozurr said:
> 
> 
> > I hope I can share the same kind of enthusiasm for them as I do for my HE-6
> ...


 

  

  
 German club, interesting.

 I used to DJ in the UK in the 90's (hire, not resident). I was great fun and the music energy is something else in a good club system. More physical than a home setup obviously. Never the less the bass energy in the top HPs goes half way to create the drama of modern dance music IMO. The lower octaves are where that happens.


----------



## Jozurr

astrostar59 said:


> German club, interesting.
> 
> I used to DJ in the UK in the 90's (hire, not resident). I was great fun and the music energy is something else in a good club system. More physical than a home setup obviously. Never the less the bass energy in the top HPs goes half way to create the drama of modern dance music IMO. The lower octaves are where that happens.


 
  
 For a moment I thought I was in a thread I started some time ago, with the same photo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812976/electronic-music-fans-headphones-discussion-thread


----------



## Hardertaskthinking

Dear all,
  
 Does any of you store your Abyss in an after-market headphone case?  If so, will you be kind enough to point me to it?
  
 The cases I use for other big headphones are still not big enough for the Abyss.
  
 Thank you


----------



## astrostar59

hardertaskthinking said:


> Dear all,
> 
> Does any of you store your Abyss in an after-market headphone case?  If so, will you be kind enough to point me to it?
> 
> ...


 

 Take care with a custom case. I used one for my Stax HPs and the leather cups grew some mold. The key thing is it needs to breath. So a wooden case is probably best. The aluminium flight cases with foam inserts tend to be too sealed in. But the next best bet is some high impact plastic cases for my other hifi gear. Like the ones you see for a camera outfit. They come with foam which you cut to size, and they do have a breather hole in the top edge.
  
 Something like this:
 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Max-MAX235H105S-Waterproof-Watertight-Photography/dp/B00PUL6AVM/ref=pd_cp_421_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6M3PTK44N75BYMWPMA9C


----------



## mulder01

I see hifiman are having another swing at a flagship planar.  
  
 Probably still not gonna beat the Abyss... 
  
 Just saw the thread yesterday.  People seem generally pretty pissed off...


----------



## deuter

mulder01 said:


> I see hifiman are having another swing at a flagship planar.
> 
> Probably still not gonna beat the Abyss...
> 
> Just saw the thread yesterday.  People seem generally pretty pissed off...


 
 What is it ?


----------



## astrostar59

mulder01 said:


> I see hifiman are having another swing at a flagship planar.
> 
> Probably still not gonna beat the Abyss...
> 
> Just saw the thread yesterday.  People seem generally pretty pissed off...


 

 Oh my goodness, this is just too much excitement in a such a short space of time, the best electrostatic, and then a planar follows. Is this really happening?
  
 I will order both types, 100K chump change....


----------



## Thenewguy007

deuter said:


> What is it ?




Hifiman HE 6 thousand dollar.


----------



## Toolman

astrostar59 said:


> Oh my goodness, this is just too much excitement in a such a short space of time, the best electrostatic, and then a planar follows. Is this really happening?


 
  
 ...oh don't forget the best sounding single DD iem for a mere $2,000. Can't contained my excitement what a snip...or should I wait a further 6 months for the improved and even more expensive Edition 8 for $8,000? I am still left with another kidney tho


----------



## odanovich

mulder01 said:


> It would be nice if people were a little more open minded to more budget friendly options for the Abyss.  Anyone who had been following this thread for a while will know that I've long maintained that you do NOT need to spend 5 grand on an amp for these, but it seems that I am in the minority.  I think that even after potential future Abyss owners have accepted the $4.5k price tag, they are often put off by assuming they'll need another $10k in the bank for the rest of the system otherwise it won't be worthwhile.  Perhaps if there was a bit more of an objective approach toward what you actually need for a respectable abyss system, more people would probably go for it.  I know when I auditioned my pair, the cheapest amp available for audition was about $2k.  I listened to it and thought "this really is just as good as the $5k amps - I'll get away with this" so I bought it.  I've since realised after listening to the Abyss on amps that are cheaper still, I probably didn't even need to spend as much as I did.  If a system like this was more widely accepted as a perfectly respectable partner to the Abyss, I think more people would be willing to pull the trigger buying an Abyss to start with...




Hey mulder (and the rest of head-fi),

So I finally did it. I bit the bullet and purchased the Abyss Deluxe Package. I'm very egar to have them arrive. Ive been reading through this thread non-stop dreaming of the day I first rest these bad boys ontop my head.


That being said, my next purchase is definitely a DAC & AMP combination. I came across the post I quoted and I wanted to ask the community how much merit it holds. Do I really owe it to the Abyss to drop $3k-$5k on a bonafide DAC/AMP combo? Or can I achieve a reasonable equivalent for a much lower cost?

I'm curious to hear from people who have tried their Abyss across multiple Setups, because the opinion of someone who has only listened to the Abyss on one setup cant really assist the answering of my question.

Curious to hear the community's thoughts!! And super excited to becoming the owner of the ugliest high-end headphone on the market!!!! Lolol. But seriously. This thing is ugly. I cant wait to hear my friends response when they look at it compared to my LCD-3.


cheers!


----------



## Yoga

odanovich said:


> Hey mulder (and the rest of head-fi),
> 
> So I finally did it. I bit the bullet and purchased the Abyss Deluxe Package. I'm very egar to have them arrive. Ive been reading through this thread non-stop dreaming of the day I first rest these bad boys ontop my head.
> 
> ...


 

 Welcome to the Abyss! :¬)

 I've heard them on the Ragnarok, Moon 430 HAD, Moon 600i (speaker amp), Phonitor 2, Phonitor X and Violectric V281.

 The 600i is the best. It's a ridiculously good combo. @Beolab agree's and he has access to pretty much all TOTL gear. I managed to find mine second hand for just €2500 (!). Makes the mids pop. I'm still on the stock cable by the way.

 Having said that, the V281 gets close, and it's also more user friendly due to the multiple ports and whatnot. Very powerful (and will drive your LCD's VERY well indeed) and musical (for a SS amp). Not dry/lifeless at all (like the Ragnarok). There's a V281 user who has a tube (Woo) amp that he doesn't use as he feels the V281 doesn't lack any mojo. Saying that it's still very accurate, transparent and dynamic. By no means 'tube' or 'warm'. Mojo. Hard to explain :¬)

 DAC wise that's up to your preferences again. Perhaps something like the Mytek Brooklyn, Benchmark DAC3 or RME ADI-2 Pro would fit the bill without much expenditure. Just sent the latter back (as I don;t need it in my studio) but it's insane VFM. Especially if you use the Slow filter (smoother top end).


----------



## lojay

yoga said:


> Welcome to the Abyss! :¬)
> 
> 
> I've heard them on the Ragnarok, Moon 430 HAD, Moon 600i (speaker amp), Phonitor 2, Phonitor X and Violectric V281.
> ...



Thanks! Do you need a special cable to connect the Abyss to the speaker binding posts of the Moon 600i or does it have XLR outputs?


----------



## Yoga

lojay said:


> Thanks! Do you need a special cable to connect the Abyss to the speaker binding posts of the Moon 600i or does it have XLR outputs?


 
  
 No XLR outs (that would have been handy). I have a custom Toxic Cables Silver Widow MiniXLR to speaker taps (banana) cable.

 I have the HiFiMan Speaker to XLR (4 Pin) converter but never used it. Prefer less in the chain.


----------



## mulder01

I've had that same amp (V281) since I bought my Abyss and don't crave another - I think pairing an amp with your headphones is a lot more about synergy and getting a sound that you like than it is about cost.  IMO
  
 If you can, just listen, listen, listen.  Try and ignore what you've read or what you're expecting to hear.  Ignore what the salesman tells you is better.  Ignore the price tags.  Close your eyes and just think of what you'd be most happy to listen to every day at home and what you enjoy the most.  If you hear 5 amps and rank them in order from your most favorite to least favorite, I highly doubt that it will be in the same order as the price tags.


----------



## ufospls2

Currently enjoying the Abyss with the Headtrip. Powerful stuff, best I have ever heard them.


----------



## MacedonianHero

ufospls2 said:


> Currently enjoying the Abyss with the Headtrip. Powerful stuff, best I have ever heard them.


 
  
 This was the quintessential amplifier I've experienced with the Abyss. Just a brilliant pairing!


----------



## Hansotek

ufospls2 said:


> Currently enjoying the Abyss with the Headtrip. Powerful stuff, best I have ever heard them.




Yup. All three of the Wells Audio amps are insane with the Abyss. I've been listening through the Wells Milo, and I am completely and totally satisfied. For 1/4 the price it is about 95% of the Headtrip, the only difference is that it doesn't have the insane level of transparency as the Headtrip. If you want to make it sound like you're not listening to a headphone at all, the Headtrip does a fantastic job of putting you right there with the artist.


----------



## deuter

The head trip seems like the best solidstate amp there is for any planar headphone.

I wouldn't pair the Abyss with anything else.


----------



## mulder01

deuter said:


> The head trip seems like the best solidstate amp there is for any planar headphone.
> 
> I wouldn't pair the Abyss with anything else.


 
  
 You have one?


----------



## Yoga

I believe Beolab also had the Headtrip before deciding upon the 600i. I was interested in trying it myself until that point.

 Either way, you can't go wrong (even slightly) with the V281, 600i, Headtrip or Milo with the Abyss. Happy days!


----------



## odanovich

Thanks for all the immediate feedback guys! Really helps point me in the right direction. 

That being said, my local dealer has a MHA100 Macintosh Amp on clearence at $2,200.. It originally goes around $4,500.. Seems like a good deal, but dont know if clearance is due to a new version coming soon... It also doesnt support XLR.

Im reading all the reviews but in these pricing tiers everys review says "A++" lol


----------



## Rossliew

odanovich said:


> Thanks for all the immediate feedback guys! Really helps point me in the right direction.
> 
> That being said, my local dealer has a MHA100 Macintosh Amp on clearence at $2,200.. It originally goes around $4,500.. Seems like a good deal, but dont know if clearance is due to a new version coming soon... It also doesnt support XLR.
> 
> Im reading all the reviews but in these pricing tiers everys review says "A++" lol




With a pigtail adapter u can drive your Abyss straight off the speaker taps of the MHA100 amp.


----------



## mulder01

odanovich said:


> Thanks for all the immediate feedback guys! Really helps point me in the right direction.
> 
> That being said, my local dealer has a MHA100 Macintosh Amp on clearence at $2,200.. It originally goes around $4,500.. Seems like a good deal, but dont know if clearance is due to a new version coming soon... It also doesnt support XLR.
> 
> Im reading all the reviews but in these pricing tiers everys review says "A++" lol


 
  
 Actually that is one of very few amps I've heard not great things about.  Make sure you try it first if you can - might be on sale because nobody wants to buy it...


----------



## odanovich

mulder01 said:


> Actually that is one of very few amps I've heard not great things about.  Make sure you try it first if you can - might be on sale because nobody wants to buy it...




Thanks for the advice on that. I'll be sure to test it first.


----------



## draytonklammer

Welp, my stock Abyss cable right side cable decided to start cutting out.
  
 Currently in the middle of waiting for a new custom cable from someone named Ted.
 Hoping it ends up being a good cable.


----------



## deuter

mulder01 said:


> You have one?


 
 No, its too expensive for me, budget and all.
 But definitely the best setup if you can afford, do audition if curious.


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> Welp, my stock Abyss cable right side cable decided to start cutting out.
> 
> Currently in the middle of waiting for a new custom cable from someone named Ted.
> Hoping it ends up being a good cable.


 
  
 Hmm you haven't had it very long - I'm sure Joe would have fixed it for you under warranty if you asked.
  
 Unless of course there is a problem somewhere else in the chain and Ted's cable does the same thing...


----------



## odanovich

Well I decided against the Macintosh Amp and gave Jeff a call at Wells Audio.  He was super nice and informative.  Went ahead and placed an order for the Milo with the upgraded Khozmo attenuator.  Should arrive along the same time as my Abyss this next weekend..  
  
 Man am I very anxious to set everything up!   I think I might just call into work and hibernate all week to help these two new additions get here quicker!   Ahh... I'm nervous.  I have zero Idea what to expect.   About 7 months ago I had a 430HAD with the LCD-3, but its been so long since those days.   
  
 I'll be sure to post an update with some photos once it arrives over the weekend!  Heres to hoping they both get here on Friday instead of Sunday! *Crosses fingers* lol
  
  
 Cheers


----------



## deuter

odanovich said:


> Well I decided against the Macintosh Amp and gave Jeff a call at Wells Audio.  He was super nice and informative.  Went ahead and placed an order for the Milo with the upgraded Khozmo attenuator.  Should arrive along the same time as my Abyss this next weekend..
> 
> Man am I very anxious to set everything up!   I think I might just call into work and hibernate all week to help these two new additions get here quicker!   Ahh... I'm nervous.  I have zero Idea what to expect.   About 7 months ago I had a 430HAD with the LCD-3, but its been so long since those days.
> 
> ...


 
 That's superb, you will not be disappointed driving the Abyss, Wells Audio makes some really high end amps.
 Definitely enough clean current for the Abyss.
 Please post once you get it, don't worry explaining the sound as we all know its probably one of the better rigs if not best in this thread for sometime.


----------



## Nik

Mcintosh do not give enough power to the Abyss (I had and sold after two days...). 

Very, very good the Goldmund and Dave (digital DAC and amp)... 

But no one has the power, synergy and musicality the HEADTRIP with DHC Prion4 cable have (with Vitus 025 CD player)... Just my two cents... 

Nik


----------



## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> Hmm you haven't had it very long - I'm sure Joe would have fixed it for you under warranty if you asked.
> 
> Unless of course there is a problem somewhere else in the chain and Ted's cable does the same thing...





Depending on what happens I'll be looking into getting the stock cable fixed, or figuring out what's up with my system.


----------



## pjk1

draytonklammer said:


> Welp, my stock Abyss cable right side cable decided to start cutting out.
> 
> Currently in the middle of waiting for a new custom cable from someone named Ted.
> Hoping it ends up being a good cable.


 
 Same issue mine started to cut out on the right side as well. That reminds me that I need to send it in to have it looked at.


----------



## pjk1

nik said:


> Mcintosh do not give enough power to the Abyss (I had and sold after two days...).
> 
> Very, very good the Goldmund and Dave (digital DAC and amp)...
> 
> ...


 
 I just pulled the trigger on the McIntosh MHA100 hopefully it sounds decent because I really like the look.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

pjk1 said:


> I just pulled the trigger on the McIntosh MHA100 hopefully it sounds decent because I really like the look.


 
  
 It is a really good looking amp for sure.


----------



## MacedonianHero

bigfatpaulie said:


> It is a really good looking amp for sure.


 
  
 That's McIntosh....I love the way their gear looks!


----------



## mulder01

pjk1 said:


> I just pulled the trigger on the McIntosh MHA100 hopefully it sounds decent because I really like the look.


 
  
 Would be interested to hear your thoughts on the sound - it definitely is nice to look at


----------



## jlbrach

i own a Mcintosh 452 amp for my speaker set up and it is magnificent.....i assume the headphone amp would be good quality as well


----------



## Nik

Good quality but not for the Abyss...


----------



## Beolab

I can recomend the new Ifi iDSD micro Black Label , it drives the Abyss with great control on mid level setting very well actually.


----------



## draytonklammer

Got my new cable from Ted today!
  
 No more cutting out and it sounds better.
  
 I HAVE NEVER BELIEVED IN CABLES MAKING A DIFFERENCE which leads to believe the stock cable might have been in worse shape than I thought.


----------



## mulder01

Does Ted have a company name or is it a DIY one?
Is it purple? (Was it you who was looking for purple?)


----------



## draytonklammer

Ted Allen from:
  
 https://www.facebook.com/HeadphoneLounge/?ref=page_internal


----------



## knopi

draytonklammer said:


> I HAVE NEVER BELIEVED IN CABLES MAKING A DIFFERENCE which leads to believe the stock cable might have been in worse shape than I thought.


 
  
 Agree. When I tried my first headphone cable 4 years ago on LCD2 there was also obvious improvement. Problem is when people thinks sometimes that they have to pay absurd price for the cable. $100-300 is adequate for quality made cable no more atleast for me.
 As regards power cables strangely I found obvious improvement in speaker system but in headphones not so much.


----------



## galacticsoap

Hi Everyone - loving the posts re: Berghain and Funktion 1 sound systems earlier in thread. Last week I ventured off to my first music festival in 10 years because the line-up was too good to pass up. Got a chance to see Sasha, Hernan Cattaneo b2b w/Guy J and a number of other big names. The festival itself was a little underwhelming but what pleased me no end was the organisers didn't skimp on the sound. The Progressive House area sponsored by Balance was an unbelievable experience and the first thing that came to my mind as Sasha proceeded to unleash a sonic assault on the masses was: "WOW - this sounds like I'm wearing my Abyss'"  Sureal!
  
 I also upgraded the stock cable a few weeks ago to a Dana Cable Lazuli Reference and I couldn't be happier. It complements the extremely resolving tonality of my system perfectly through the introduction of a hint of warmth via a touch of body through the mid-range and mid-bass. I am very happy. Would have gone with the considerably more expensive Prion4 if the ETA wasn't 5+ months...
  
 I recently moved my Chord DAVE from my main 2 Channel RIG to my Headfi station and having been running the Abyss directly through it. WOW. What an experience. Compared to my MSB Analog DAC + Quad USB + Analog Powerbase and Vio V281 the DAVE is quite a steps up by way of resolution AND musicality. I've reached a stage with the DAVE + Abyss where I feel genuinely grateful to be able to listen to music at this level of fidelity. Many many thanks to the designers and manufacturers behind these two amazing products. Perversely, and despite the price tags - I'm very much in your debt!


----------



## cladane

Hello,
  
 Here, our group isn't really fan of the DAVE. Very high precision, details, good bass but trebles cut out compared for ex to the Utopia which doesn't help with the Abyss which can be somewhat uptight in the high trebles.
 For sure question of flavors.
  
 True, cables can add to headphone rendering. Do like Nordost.
 People are ready to spend gorgeous prices.
 Would cables be able to change headphone signature or do some EQ explaining such prices ?


----------



## draytonklammer

knopi said:


> Agree. When I tried my first headphone cable 4 years ago on LCD2 there was also obvious improvement. Problem is when people thinks sometimes that they have to pay absurd price for the cable. $100-300 is adequate for quality made cable no more atleast for me.
> As regards power cables strangely I found obvious improvement in speaker system but in headphones not so much.




It's insane. I've never heard my Abyss like I hear it now with this new cable. 

It is a type 2 silver litz cable.


----------



## Torq

I've switched to running one of these (see below) with my Abyss (and connector-appropriate-variations of it for my Utopia and LCD-4).  Preferring it to the DHC Spore4 there too.  Unique interleaved-quad-helix geometry, ultra-low inductance, capacitance and impedance, large effective AWG, high-purity OCC wiring, fully shielded, cryo-treated, electron-beam-irradiated, soft, super-flexible and non-microphonic.  
  
 On the LCD-4 version, the sheath is reflective and even glows in the dark too (no reason this one couldn't do that too, but it's a purely cosmetic thing).


----------



## Toolman

which Norne cable is this?


----------



## Torq

toolman said:


> which Norne cable is this?


 
  
 It's not a Norne cable.


----------



## draytonklammer

Been doing a lot of listening and tried my stock cable and there's definitely a very positive different with this custom cable.


----------



## odanovich

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jlbrach

I got a chance to sample the abyss at canjam this past weekend and while they are definitely an interesting option the whole setup and the way it sits on your head and all the effort involved is to me a bit bizarre...that said they certainly are a good sounding HP


----------



## draytonklammer

jlbrach said:


> I got a chance to sample the abyss at canjam this past weekend and while they are definitely an interesting option the whole setup and the way it sits on your head and all the effort involved is to me a bit bizarre...that said they certainly are a good sounding HP




They're incredible. I think I sold you my LCD-4 actually which allowed me to get my Abyss. I've never looked back. I compared them so many times and just instantly put the LCD on a stand.


----------



## m17xr2b

I'm the exact opposite. After having the Abyss for 6 months I traded it for the LCD-4.


----------



## mulder01

torq said:


> It's not a Norne cable.


 
  
 Why so secret squirrel on the cable?  You say it's the best thing ever on at least 2 threads but won't name it?


----------



## draytonklammer

m17xr2b said:


> I'm the exact opposite. After having the Abyss for 6 months I traded it for the LCD-4.




Interesting choice. Why is that?


----------



## Torq

mulder01 said:


> Why so secret squirrel on the cable?  You say it's the best thing ever on at least 2 threads but won't name it?


 
  
 Less being secretive and more it being a teaser ... there's no final branding for it, and you can't buy it quite yet, so I can't direct you to a site where you could get it or read more about it, nor can I give it a name that would be useful.  That'll probably change by the end of the month.

 I've said it was the best _my_ headphones have sounded on _one_ thread (and I've only named one _specific_ alternate cable that I've heard, though there have been a good few at this point).  And since I haven't heard everything I most definitely haven't described it as the "best thing ever".


----------



## m17xr2b

The biggest issue for me was the treble. I had to eq them down a lot on certain songs as they were just too piercing. Had the same problem with the HEK. After listening to all the high end headphones I came to the conclusion it's me as I'm just too sensitive to the high end. 
 I do admit that technically the Abyss is above all others but sadly I cannot live with it. 
 With the Audeze headphones I have no such issue, most likely because of the dip in the 5-10K region and I fell they have the best seducing mids even if the Abyss ones are clearer. 
 I may get scolded for the following statement but for me the LCD-4 has better bass. Yes it's not as tight but it has greater presence which is more enjoyable and enables me to be more connected to the music.


----------



## draytonklammer

m17xr2b said:


> The biggest issue for me was the treble. I had to eq them down a lot on certain songs as they were just too piercing. Had the same problem with the HEK. After listening to all the high end headphones I came to the conclusion it's me as I'm just too sensitive to the high end.
> I do admit that technically the Abyss is above all others but sadly I cannot live with it.
> With the Audeze headphones I have no such issue, most likely because of the dip in the 5-10K region and I fell they have the best seducing mids even if the Abyss ones are clearer.
> I may get scolded for the following statement but for me the LCD-4 has better bass. Yes it's not as tight but it has greater presence which is more enjoyable and enables me to be more connected to the music.




Huh, interesting. 
I guess for me I notice better, more accurate bass on the Abyss, along with more bass without being too much. 

Along with that, this is one of few headphones that don't make me ears bleed with treble. Tinnitus is a bitch. 

That being said, the LCD-4 was one of few headphones that also fulfilled not making my ears bleed from treble. 

How much did you mess with the Abyss fit? Did you ever try headband mods or getting a new one from Joe?

My Abyss didn't reach what it is now until I got my smaller headband which allowed for a much better fit. 

Also what's your setup? Maybe my 430HAD just runs better for the Abyss. 

Very curious as I've been down a similar road.


----------



## m17xr2b

I also suffer from tinnitus and might be the reason for the high end sensitivity.
 On my big head I used a couple of velcro straps to have a longer headband without stretching the elastic, similar to how people described earlier in the thread.
 On the fit I fiddled with it every day, both a blessing and a curse as it's interesting how a different fit affects the sound. 
 In the end different ears and all, no way to go wrong with any of the TOTL headphones just personal preferences. For my setup I have Yggy(AES from Lynx E22) to a 300B preamp to Moon 600i or Stratus. I haven't heard the 430HAD so I cannot say if it's better than what I have.


----------



## jlbrach

draytonklammer said:


> They're incredible. I think I sold you my LCD-4 actually which allowed me to get my Abyss. I've never looked back. I compared them so many times and just instantly put the LCD on a stand.


 
 Yes,you did...i love the LCD-4's and i also think the HE1000 v2 is pretty special as well...I do want to give the abyss a serious listen at some point


----------



## mulder01

torq said:


> Less being secretive and more it being a teaser ... there's no final branding for it, and you can't buy it quite yet, so I can't direct you to a site where you could get it or read more about it, nor can I give it a name that would be useful.  That'll probably change by the end of the month.
> 
> I've said it was the best _my_ headphones have sounded on _one_ thread (and I've only named one _specific_ alternate cable that I've heard, though there have been a good few at this point).  And since I haven't heard everything I most definitely haven't described it as the "best thing ever".


 
  
 Fair call.
  
 I see you choose your words very carefully.  You know what I mean though.  You posted a photo of it in this thread and the LCD-4 thread and said it was the best you had heard personally...
  
 ---
  
 I thought my ears were sensitive and I think the Abyss is great.  Having said that, I have found it fatiguing depending on the amp.  I think it pairs well with a warmer amp.  For my tastes and hearing.


----------



## cladane

m17xr2b said:


> The biggest issue for me was the treble. I had to eq them down a lot on certain songs as they were just too piercing. Had the same problem with the HEK. After listening to all the high end headphones I came to the conclusion it's me as I'm just too sensitive to the high end.
> I do admit that technically the Abyss is above all others but sadly I cannot live with it.
> With the Audeze headphones I have no such issue, most likely because of the dip in the 5-10K region and I fell they have the best seducing mids even if the Abyss ones are clearer.
> I may get scolded for the following statement but for me the LCD-4 has better bass. Yes it's not as tight but it has greater presence which is more enjoyable and enables me to be more connected to the music.


 

 ​Same feeling regarding the trebles with the Abyss.
 Let's take an example:
 Renaud Capuçon plays Rihm, Dusapin & Mantovani​ : Aufgang from Dusapin
 http://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/album/renaud-capucon-plays-rihm-dusapin-mantovani-renaud-capucon-philippe-jordan-myung-whun-chung/0825646026838
  
 I keep the Abyss for its openness and impressive bass response (a must for Symphonies).
 The LCD4 has very very good mediums, the best actually for an headphone ? But falling short against the Utopia in overall linearity.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

I can tell you for sure that close miked violin recordings are not what we had in mind with the AB-1266. Would definitely recommend a tame headphone system for those types of recordings.


----------



## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> Fair call.
> 
> I see you choose your words very carefully.  You know what I mean though.  You posted a photo of it in this thread and the LCD-4 thread and said it was the best you had heard personally...
> 
> ...




I know the 430HAD I have is supposedly pretty neutral and that works well from my experience. Never fatigues me and always keeps me listening for that extra hour before bed. 

I've been considering picking up a complementary headphone and so far the only headphone I've found to potentially fill that void without being too similar is the Focal Utopia, but the Abyss manages to make me bench that headphone as well. 

I really don't have any good reason not to use the Abyss for all of my listening. 

I'm still surprised the new cable I got made such a positive different compared to stock.


----------



## odanovich

Hey Guys, My Wells Milo Amp just arrived today along with my Abyss headphones.... I've got everything setup and I'm super stoked to get started.... However I have a quick question... How do I know which driver is for the right side of the headphone? I don't see any indicator marking on the Abyss... I'm concerned that I will line them in the wrong way... The user manual does not state the answer.
  
 Any immediate help would be greatly appreciated! 
  
 Thanks


----------



## bigfatpaulie

The connectors on the Abyss aren't in the center of the bottom of the ear pieces.  They should be closer to the front when you have them on.  Though, in reality, it really doesn't matter as long as the right cable is on your right.
  
 Congrats on a great setup!


----------



## odanovich

Wow! Thanks for the immediate help!  Okay guys.... it's time for me to take my first journey into the 'Abyss'!!!!!!!!!!  I'll be sure to leave some initial impressions...  But hopefully I get lost on this musical adventure and completely tune out life   
  
 Cheers!


----------



## draytonklammer

The easiest way for me is that the front is if you put on the headphones with the ABYSS on the headband facing you.


----------



## ufospls2

Quote: 





odanovich said:


> Hey Guys, My Wells Milo Amp just arrived today along with my Abyss headphones.... I've got everything setup and I'm super stoked to get started.... However I have a quick question... How do I know which driver is for the right side of the headphone? I don't see any indicator marking on the Abyss... I'm concerned that I will line them in the wrong way... The user manual does not state the answer.
> 
> Any immediate help would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Thanks


 
 Hope this helps somewhat. 
  
  
  
 The Milo + Abyss is a great combo! Hope you have a great evening of listening


----------



## odanovich

I hate to report, but I'm now currently very concerned that the left ear driver is damaged... the bass makes grumbly garbage noise quite frequently but not all the time.... When I take them off my head and listen to the music they project into the room, it sounds like distortion coming through where the bass can be noticeably different at times than the sound on the right side. I also hear periodic clipping..  This was never an issue when I had the LCD-3, I could take them off and power them to ultra high levels and hear very clear transparent sound.
  
 I can't determine if this is being caused by a kink in the left cable... or if this is due to the driver issue.     All in all, I'm very sad to report that my experience so far has been my worst fear.   I am reaching out to my local dealer to see if it is a cable issue.   Does anyone know if Abyss supports their warranty if the product was resold?  Cuz I might have just lost a lot of money and that kind of makes me feel sick.


----------



## draytonklammer

Are you sure it might not be the fit?
 I know I had the same (or similar from what you describe) issues with my left side.
  
 By fit, what fixed it for me was changing the orientation of my leather ear cups. They don't have to be lined up, for example, to get the best sound. Every head is different.
  
 I do hope for your sake it's not actually the driver.
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 In other news, I added a Schiit Wyrd to my system.
 Apparently I had some unwanted noise, which doesn't surprise me considering my gaming rig and how many components are being powered by a somewhat cheapish PSU. (Nova G2)
  
 Worth the money for me, especially at this stage in the game.


----------



## odanovich

I've spent the last hour adjusting the earcups all around, and i'm listening to songs that i'm very familiar with.   There are moments when I cringe its bad...   I need to take them my local dealer and pray that it can be resolved with a cable swap... *gulp* *tears*


----------



## odanovich

https://youtu.be/98pwChfzMbQ

I uploaded a video so you can hear them... Wait until the bass drops around 40 seconds in..


----------



## draytonklammer

Mind sending me the song?
 Just want to try it on mine out in front of me.
  
 I can almost guarantee it won't sound like that though. I'm gonna say it's more likely driver than cable.
  
 My stock cable (which I just replaced because whatever it's made out of feels cheap and bends in a way that might damage the insides) looks like yours and I never had issues like that.
 Mine actually, in truth, looks worse. It's now broken, of course, and renders the right channel with basically no sound.


----------



## odanovich

Insomniac Olympics   by Blockhead    Album  Ninja Tune Retrospect


----------



## draytonklammer

Yeah, my guess is driver. I don't think a cable would do that...
  
 I suppose I could also maybe ask how loud you have the Abyss.
  
 I know my Abyss measured by SPL is never above 80 Db.


----------



## odanovich

Im not sure how I go about finding the db level... Is that on the amp? Or headphone? Or some online tool?

also I ahould explain my setup.. Maybe there is an issue with that chain.

Laptop > Apple usb-c to micro usb cable > Chord Mojo in 3V line out > Amazon Basics $6 auxiliary to RCA cable > Wells Audio Milo > 4-pin to 2x 3-pin adaptor (Stock Cable) > Stock abyss headphone cables both with crimmped / bent ends > Abyss Headphones.

Could it be a cheap cable?


----------



## draytonklammer

I don't feel like a cheap cable would make that level of difference.
  
 Are there any other systems you can test it on, just for the hell of it?
  
 Have you tried switching the headphone cable sides just to remove the theory of it being that?


----------



## Jozurr

odanovich said:


> https://youtu.be/98pwChfzMbQ
> 
> I uploaded a video so you can hear them... Wait until the bass drops around 40 seconds in..


 
  
 Have you tried swapping the cable sides to check if the distortion moves to the other sides?


----------



## odanovich

Maybe my expectation for how loud the Abyss could scale was falsely hyped. Im going to move my troubleshooting over to the Milo thread.. Because i've got it dialed up to about 3 oclock and i start hearing distorsion much sooner than I remember taking the LCD-3 with the 430HAD...


----------



## x RELIC x

odanovich said:


> Im not sure how I go about finding the db level... Is that on the amp? Or headphone? Or some online tool?
> 
> also I ahould explain my setup.. Maybe there is an issue with that chain.
> 
> ...




Try clicking the volume on the Mojo down 4 clicks from the 'line-out' volume preset. This will give you 1.9Vrms output from the Mojo vs 3Vrms. Some amps can't take 3Vrms on their inputs. You may be hearing the amp clipping with a 3Vrms input.

Be aware that the 'line-out' mode on the Mojo is nothing more than a volume preset. Nothing is bypassed in 'line-out' mode and you aren't double amping with the Mojo set to a different volume. The Mojo always drives headphones from its DAC's line-out stage and there is no seperate headamp in the device. The volume is controlled digitally and is measured as lossless. Just be aware that when you change the volume from the 'line-out' preset that it WILL be remembered, so please take precautions when plugging IEMs/headphones directly in to the Mojo at these levels.

Hope this helps.


----------



## odanovich

x relic x said:


> Try clicking the volume on the Mojo down 4 clicks from the 'line-out' volume preset. This will give you 1.9Vrms output from the Mojo vs 3Vrms. Some amps can't take 3Vrms on their inputs. You may be hearing the amp clipping with a 3Vrms input.
> 
> Be aware that the 'line-out' mode on the Mojo is nothing more than a volume preset. Nothing is bypassed in 'line-out' mode and you aren't double amping with the Mojo set to a different volume. The Mojo always drives headphones from its DAC's line-out stage and there is no seperate headamp in the device. The volume is controlled digitally and is measured as lossless. Just be aware that when you change the volume from the 'line-out' preset that it WILL be remembered, so please take precautions when plugging IEMs/headphones directly in to the Mojo at these levels.
> 
> Hope this helps.




Relic, my god. Here I was going crazy and after all this nonsense its my Mojos volume setting. Man this fixed everything!!

Thanks everyone for contributing.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

CanJam 2017 NYC was a very good show, busy both days. Some pix of the Abyss booth...


----------



## x RELIC x

odanovich said:


> Relic, my god. Here I was going crazy and after all this nonsense its my Mojos volume setting. Man this fixed everything!!
> 
> Thanks everyone for contributing.




Glad this was the solution, enjoy!


----------



## draytonklammer

odanovich said:


> Relic, my god. Here I was going crazy and after all this nonsense its my Mojos volume setting. Man this fixed everything!!
> 
> Thanks everyone for contributing.


 
 Can't wait to hear your thoughts!


----------



## mulder01

.


----------



## Jozurr

odanovich said:


> Maybe my expectation for how loud the Abyss could scale was falsely hyped. Im going to move my troubleshooting over to the Milo thread.. Because i've got it dialed up to about 3 oclock and i start hearing distorsion much sooner than I remember taking the LCD-3 with the 430HAD...


 
  
 I'm using Yggy+Rag for the Abyss out of the Balanced out of Rag, and I feel the same way. I can hear distortion if I go as loud as I would go on my HE-6. Not sure what's going on there because the input on the Rag is compatible with the output of the Yggy.


----------



## draytonklammer

jozurr said:


> I'm using Yggy+Rag for the Abyss out of the Balanced out of Rag, and I feel the same way. I can hear distortion if I go as loud as I would go on my HE-6. Not sure what's going on there because the input on the Rag is compatible with the output of the Yggy.




At a listening level that won't damage hearing (I've measured to a max of 79Db) the Abyss (mine at least) does not distort.


----------



## Jozurr

draytonklammer said:


> At a listening level that won't damage hearing (I've measured to a max of 79Db) the Abyss (mine at least) does not distort.


 
  
 I have not measured listening levels, but I do listen loud (more club like) and I mostly listen to techno. I've had very few phones distort. The last time I had that problem was with the MicroZOTL2 that could not push enough power into the HE-ZMF Omni and the headphones would sound distorted out of it. Rag doesn't have a problem with output power, so I'm not sure what's going on.


----------



## astrostar59

jozurr said:


> draytonklammer said:
> 
> 
> > At a listening level that won't damage hearing (I've measured to a max of 79Db) the Abyss (mine at least) does not distort.
> ...


 

 It is odd. Have you got any EQ set on the source? If yes, watch the 0dB level does not get hit. Or maybe the Abyss needs tons of power, not just volume. I have had amplifiers distort before on bass heavy tracks as the transformers run out of juice (speakers not HPs).
  
 I often listen loud on the 009s and don't get any distortion.


----------



## Jozurr

astrostar59 said:


> It is odd. Have you got any EQ set on the source? If yes, watch the 0dB level does not get hit. Or maybe the Abyss needs tons of power, not just volume. I have had amplifiers distort before on bass heavy tracks as the transformers run out of juice (speakers not HPs).
> 
> I often listen loud on the 009s and don't get any distortion.




The Rag on balanced has a lot of power before it distorts or runs out of it. I can drive the HE-6 without issues.


----------



## odanovich

Hey Everyone, 
  
 I just wanted to provide a follow up post explaining the outcome of my "panic" outbreak earlier in this post.    
  
 I went to my local dealer who is a really nice guy named Galen Carol.  He assisted me with trouble shooting my setup.  First we determined that the Headphone Drivers are not damaged and neither was the crimped cabling.  Next I was pretty convinced that it was the Amplifier.  However I picked up the Chordette 2Qute to replace it from my temporary Chord Mojo.. along with some upgraded Cables: Cardas USB Cable and a pair of better RCA connectors (compared to the $6 Amazon Basics Aux to RCA adapter).  After adding the 2Qute into the system with the additional cables, things have improved dramatically. I can now take the headphones to a much higher level prior to distortion kicking in on the drivers. 
  
 Right now is the first time I'm really starting to gasp the power and beauty presented by the Abyss....   No more panicking over here.   Life is Good  Thanks again for everyone's help troubleshooting.


----------



## cladane

Hello @odanovich,
  
 Yes Abyss are great headphones and you will be surprised that they don't need really a lot of power to drive them.
 The important point is that you must provide them fast transients along with heavy bass. They do like a dynamic setup.


----------



## Jozurr

odanovich said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> I just wanted to provide a follow up post explaining the outcome of my "panic" outbreak earlier in this post.
> 
> ...




So is the Mojo faulty or the cables?


----------



## mulder01

jozurr said:


> So is the Mojo faulty or the cables?


 
  
 Neither - the Mojo's output was turned up too loud the Milo didn't like it


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> Neither - the Mojo's output was turned up too loud the Milo didn't like it




It is the same on the Headtrip, the input stage does not like more than around 2 volt input signal feed, so DAVE with 6 volts output combined with HeadTrip, was not a great combo even if you lowered the output vol. to -30 db on DAVE the Headtrip did distort occationally, but it did not with a standard DAC with 2 volt output feed. 

The Moon products for instance can handle input feeds up to 6v, so there is no distortion thank god.


----------



## Xecuter

Hi guys,
  
 My new amplifier finally landed a few days ago. I am still getting my bearings and only just getting the first few hours on this ancient quad of RCAs. I'm not about to play with my fivre or avvt tubes until I've spent a few hundred hours with these RCA double black plate. I'm also curious to try Joe's effort with KR!
  
 Early impressions are that the Eddie current studio is super detailed has astounding transients, massive stage, and is astonishingly fast. I've tried a lot of rigs from woo, egoistica, schiit, moon and wasn't afraid to go in deep to find my perfect amp for the Abyss.
  
 My amp journey may end here. I'll come back with more detail when everything has settled in and I can collect my thoughts.


----------



## cladane

Hello,
  
 Can you remember me what is 'Joe's effort with KR' ?


----------



## Xecuter

Joe has helped KR audio make some improvements.. They are called HP for high performance. They are apparently tuned exceptionally well for headphones.
This is one of the only 2a3 tubes I don't own! 
https://www.thecableco.com/Product/2A3-HP
@cladane hope this helps. Also epic rig!


----------



## cladane

Thank you @Xecuter for those details.
  
 I have ordered a VIVA Egoista 2A3 but would you say that changing/improving the power tubes has really a sonic benefit to the amp better than rolling the pre-amp tubes for ex ??


----------



## Xecuter

Rolling these DHT power tubes does result in subtle differences in tonality. Some Amps respond more than others.

Rolling preamp tubes will probably be a greater change, however I do not believe in using an active pre-amp in a headphone rig. I was only doing it because I had other issues in my system.


----------



## cladane

Reading Joe's comments I see that he promotes the WOO W5 which is built around 300B. Would those tubes suit more Abyss' character than the 2A3 ?? 300B are known to 'round' trebles, isn't it?


----------



## Xecuter

Depends on the rest of your rig. I don't like woos' stuff. A wa5 with maxed out tubes is pretty decent but the total cost is huge for a 'good amp'. The wa234 is only a smidge better and the topography is not ideal (as in the transformer is not designed to work with a single type of tube, they designed it to run with 3 types so it's not optimised for best from tube or transformer)
  
 A 2a3 amp can sound warmer and more musical (see DN stratus/stellaris) or more clinical and precise like my studio. It depends on the topography/transformers much more than the tubes IMO.
 Same goes for 300b/45 tubes.
  
 I run a warmer dac from AES from pro-audio card, direct to SET 2a3. Without a slightly warm dac this system would probably be a bit fatiguing. But for me this is the best attack, most spacious, and most correct mid range I've heard from an Abyss. The Bass energy is toned down a smidgen.
  
 Also the midrange harshness people complain about can be toned down by dampening the metal baffle slightly with some creatology foam and felt. This will help minimize the metallic harshness in the mid range and tends to improve the lower midrange detail (more profoundly than a cable switch). You can round the treble with a very warm amp or a gooey dac, but you will lose micro detail.
  
 Just my 2 cents/YMMV etc


----------



## cladane

Are you sure about the midrange harshness ?
 I would say from my point of vue that the mediums are a bit recessed which puts the trebles forward explaining the great openness of those headphones and the upper trebles making me uptight.
  
 Do you think @Xecuter that the KR 2A3 HP could make the mediums more consistant ?? Thus making the Abyss more fleshly ?
  
 Dampening the metal baffle, foam and felt  ? Some drawings as examples ?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

@cladane, what interconnect and AC cables do you use with your AB-1266?


----------



## Kamb1ng

Hi everyone,
  
 I recently purchased the Focal Utopia, and really enjoying it... but as you all know and or can relate to curiosity certainly has the better of me.
 Reading the majority of impressions here aren't helping either! I am floored by the Utopia's but feel they lack somewhat in Bass.
 Most impressions here peg the bass on the 1266 to be quite good, and the improved sound stage is music to my ears.
  
 May I ask for those of you that jumped ship from Utopia to 1266, why did you do so?
 My gear is Yggy+Rag.
  
 Thanks


----------



## draytonklammer

kamb1ng said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I recently purchased the Focal Utopia, and really enjoying it... but as you all know and or can relate to curiosity certainly has the better of me.
> Reading the majority of impressions here aren't helping either! I am floored by the Utopia's but feel they lack somewhat in Bass.
> ...


 
 I never jumped ship from the Utopia, I have only auditioned them for a bit on my own setup against my Abyss.
 I felt like the Abyss was much more fun, and yes has that bass we crave.
  
 I did however just buy a Utopia to keep and do much longer term comparisons with.
  
 Another point from me, I found the Utopia and Abyss to be on the top of my list beating the STAX-009/LCD-4/STAX-007 FOR MY EARS -- your results may vary.


----------



## mulder01

There probably isn't going to be a lot of people that have gone from utopia to abyss for the simple fact that the abyss came out ages ago and the utopia is still the flavour of the month. 

From what I have read, they are very different headphones so it will be personal preference as to which is 'better' or as you just saw above, some choose to own both because they are different enough to complement each other whilst both being flagship items. 

When I read 'light on in the bass' and 'small soundstage' for utopia I was immediately put off because they are my two favorite things about the abyss. But I do like Focal's speakers and generally don't agree with most things I read on the internet so I'd still like to audition them given the chance.


----------



## draytonklammer

My Utopia arrives on Monday. I have auditioned them against my Abyss on my setup before and enjoyed them.
  
 I figured it would be a great compliment. An LCD-4 didn't make sense for me because I feel like my Abyss does what they do better.
  
 The Utopia made sense so that I could have a more reference headphone and heck, it's very comfortable compared to the Abyss.
 I'm not saying the Abyss isn't comfortable, it is easily more comfortable than many flagships, but the HD 800 and Utopia edge it out in comfort for me.
 The HE-1000 in a way might be considered more comfortable for many, but for me they have a weird way of balancing the weight, and a weird clamp that I don't like compared to the hanging of the Abyss.
  
 The Utopia will also stay on my head in bed, which I plan on doing a bit more once I get them. I do admit I am generally on my computer so the Abyss is fine, but they're not fun to try and keep up (that and the way I have to keep them up generally probably decreases sound quality at least slightly)
  
 I've somewhat been considering a new amp/dac next, but I love my Moon Neo 430HAD -- I am at minimum keeping the amp portion. The DAC might be something to consider, though...


----------



## cladane

joe skubinski said:


> @cladane, what interconnect and AC cables do you use with your AB-1266?


 

 ​Hello,
  
 AC cable : ESPRIT ETERNA and interconnect cable: ATOHM RCA


----------



## Kamb1ng

Thanks so much for sharing guys, looks like a demo of the 1266 is in my future!


----------



## jlbrach

draytonklammer said:


> My Utopia arrives on Monday. I have auditioned them against my Abyss on my setup before and enjoyed them.
> 
> I figured it would be a great compliment. An LCD-4 didn't make sense for me because I feel like my Abyss does what they do better.
> 
> ...


 
 The new HE1000 v2 is easily the most comfortable high end HP IMHO


----------



## draytonklammer

jlbrach said:


> The new HE1000 v2 is easily the most comfortable high end HP IMHO




I'm glad you think so. I think it's comfortable.


----------



## Kamb1ng

Does anyone game on these headphones? Love my music, but also love to game. Feel like the increased soundstage would do wonders for games...


----------



## draytonklammer

kamb1ng said:


> Does anyone game on these headphones? Love my music, but also love to game. Feel like the increased soundstage would do wonders for games...


 
 I personally find them good for gaming, heck maybe I can add that to my comparison when I get my Utopia and break it in.


----------



## Kamb1ng

draytonklammer said:


> I personally find them good for gaming, heck maybe I can add that to my comparison when I get my Utopia and break it in.


 

 Haha, I swear, it feels like I can relate to your audio preferences. Thanks for answering again lol.
  
 It would be really awesome, and much appreciated, if you did add a gaming comparison. Curious, what games do you play that you have enjoyed on the Abyss? I am playing through Dishonored 2 right now and would enjoy a wider soundstage on the Utopia's.


----------



## mulder01

kamb1ng said:


> Does anyone game on these headphones? Love my music, but also love to game. Feel like the increased soundstage would do wonders for games...


 
  
 I wonder if gaming just needs the most lightweight comfortable headphone.  Super high fidelity seems like it might be a little unnecessary?  I think you can get simulated surround sound software and stuff if you want to enhance the gaming experience.
  
 I was watching this WA7 review a while ago (not sure why) by a gamer guy and he made a recommendation at about the 20:00 mark for gaming that might be more beneficial than just a pair of headphones with a good soundstage - something like the Abyss is probably more targeted at the purist audiophile but if you are gaming you might get more out of a simulated surround type software.
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCGz0m7xEOM
  
 Not trying to steer you away from the Abyss at all, but if you are mainly gaming there might be more cost effective options for a good gaming experience.


----------



## draytonklammer

kamb1ng said:


> Haha, I swear, it feels like I can relate to your audio preferences. Thanks for answering again lol.
> 
> It would be really awesome, and much appreciated, if you did add a gaming comparison. Curious, what games do you play that you have enjoyed on the Abyss? I am playing through Dishonored 2 right now and would enjoy a wider soundstage on the Utopia's.


 
 Skyrim Remastered, Quake 3, Paladins, Dying Light, Terraria, Starbound, Minecraft, Rainbow Six Vegas 1/2, Borderlands 2, Duke Nukem 3D, The Forest, GMOD, GTA V, Portal Knights, Saints Row 3, etc.
  
 I play and own a lot of games on Steam.


----------



## Kamb1ng

mulder01 said:


> I wonder if gaming just needs the most lightweight comfortable headphone.  Super high fidelity seems like it might be a little unnecessary?  I think you can get simulated surround sound software and stuff if you want to enhance the gaming experience.
> 
> I was watching this WA7 review a while ago (not sure why) by a gamer guy and he made a recommendation at about the 20:00 mark for gaming that might be more beneficial than just a pair of headphones with a good soundstage - something like the Abyss is probably more targeted at the purist audiophile but if you are gaming you might get more out of a simulated surround type software.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Appreciate your input! Honestly, the headphones are primarily used for critical music listening, and occasionally I will game on them. In fact for gaming I used to prefer playing them on my surround setup, back when I had the HD800 and believe it or not, it was paired with the same WA7 in the video you linked lol. My setup now is Yggy+Rag+Utopia and it has become my new 'reference' for sound, for anything really. In the words of my eight year old, the sound is just magical. However, the HD 800's have a much larger soundstage then the Utopia's (almost too much), hence my never ending rabbit hole of audio.
  
 Basically, I want to have my cake and eat it too lol. I will be demoing the Abyss this weekend at AudioVision in SF, and will soon find out for myself. Won't be the same as a home audition, but really just want to experience the sound signature. The great thing about headphones though, well, space wise, is that you can own more than one pair for different occassions. The wallet on the other hand...


----------



## Yoga

draytonklammer said:


> Skyrim Remastered, *Quake 3*, Paladins, Dying Light, Terraria, Starbound, Minecraft, Rainbow Six Vegas 1/2, Borderlands 2, Duke Nukem 3D, The Forest, GMOD, GTA V, Portal Knights, Saints Row 3, etc.
> 
> I play and own a lot of games on Steam.


 
  
 Even seeing the word Quake makes me happy. Played Q1/2/3/4/QL for years and years.

 Stopped playing games as I get too addicted (not good when you run a business), but I have Doom installed on the W10 boot drive. I'll give that a pop out the Abyss today.


----------



## draytonklammer

yoga said:


> Even seeing the word Quake makes me happy. Played Q1/2/3/4/QL for years and years.
> 
> Stopped playing games as I get too addicted (not good when you run a business), but I have Doom installed on the W10 boot drive. I'll give that a pop out the Abyss today.


 
 I disliked the new Doom in comparison to Quake.
  
 I played a lot of Quake 1, 4, and live, BUT I played 2 and 3 religiously. Easily thousands more hours than the others. (mainly 3)


----------



## deuter

draytonklammer said:


> I disliked the new Doom in comparison to Quake.
> 
> I played a lot of Quake 1, 4, and live, BUT I played 2 and 3 religiously. Easily thousands more hours than the others. (mainly 3)






Get some speakers and then understand what real sound is supposed to sound.


----------



## draytonklammer

deuter said:


> Get some speakers and then understand what real sound is supposed to sound.




Not worth it for me in my current living conditions.


----------



## deuter

draytonklammer said:


> Not worth it for me in my current living conditions.




Fair enough, what I was trying to say is try a speaker setup because it is very different experience to headphones


----------



## draytonklammer

deuter said:


> Fair enough, what I was trying to say is try a speaker setup because it is very different experience to headphones




I've tried high end setups and don't feel they're worth shelling out hundreds of thousands for. 

Sure, a great speaker setup can cost the price of my headphone setup, but that doesn't include room acoustics or anything of that matter. Not to mention, being 20 I don't expect to have a home for 1-2 decades.


----------



## deuter

draytonklammer said:


> I've tried high end setups and don't feel they're worth shelling out hundreds of thousands for.
> 
> Sure, a great speaker setup can cost the price of my headphone setup, but that doesn't include room acoustics or anything of that matter. Not to mention, being 20 I don't expect to have a home for 1-2 decades.




I understand your dilemma but when you do get a place buy a speaker setup, all you will need is speakers and amp.Can be a mind blowing experience even without any room treatment.

I know headphones are easy to pay money for and use as you don't have to worry about the room but spending a fraction of what some these headphones cost for speakers can get you some of the most detailed and totally correct sound.


----------



## draytonklammer

deuter said:


> I understand your dilemma but when you do get a place buy a speaker setup, all you will need is speakers and amp.Can be a mind blowing experience even without any room treatment.
> 
> I know headphones are easy to pay money for and use as you don't have to worry about the room but spending a fraction of what some these headphones cost for speakers can get you some of the most detailed and totally correct sound.


 
 I appreciate your concern, but both headphones and speakers have their ups and downs.
  
 Anyways, this is the Abyss thread, back on topic we go.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

@ cladane, I would suggest trying a different interconnect with Abyss. FEP/PTFE type dielectrics and anything silver can be hard sounding, particularly in line level interconnect, and have a harsh component to them that would certainly stand out with string instruments, piano, or horns. 

Suggest copper conductors with polyethylene or polypropylene dielectrics, or try at least our own JPS Superconductor V. 

When we used your amplifier with the AB-1266 we tried our various cables. The amplifier was VERY reactive to the AC cables. We could make it sound thin in bass and bright, or bloated bass, all with the change of the AC cable. Absolute best mate from our various AC cable models was JPS Labs Aluminata AC with Aluminata interconnects from the DAC. This with the AB-1266. Other headphones may appreciate different cables.




cladane said:


> ​Hello,
> 
> AC cable : ESPRIT ETERNA and interconnect cable: ATOHM RCA


----------



## cladane

joe skubinski said:


> @ cladane, I would suggest trying a different interconnect with Abyss. FEP/PTFE type dielectrics and anything silver can be hard sounding, particularly in line level interconnect, and have a harsh component to them that would certainly stand out with string instruments, piano, or horns.
> 
> Suggest copper conductors with polyethylene or polypropylene dielectrics, or try at least our own JPS Superconductor V.
> 
> When we used your amplifier with the AB-1266 we tried our various cables. The amplifier was VERY reactive to the AC cables. We could make it sound thin in bass and bright, or bloated bass, all with the change of the AC cable. Absolute best mate from our various AC cable models was JPS Labs Aluminata AC with Aluminata interconnects from the DAC. This with the AB-1266. Other headphones may appreciate different cables.


 

 Hello Joe,
  
 Thank you for your concern and advices.
  
 I will contact the French importer about those cables since I'm looking at enhancing my experience with the Abyss.
  
 I have ordered also the VIVA 2A3 with the KR Audio HP tubes from CableCo.
  
 Claude


----------



## Yoga

draytonklammer said:


> I disliked the new Doom in comparison to Quake.
> 
> I played a lot of Quake 1, 4, and live, BUT I played 2 and 3 religiously. Easily thousands more hours than the others. (mainly 3)


 

 Same here; Q2 and Q3 by far. Rocket arena especially. Very fond memories of those days.
  
 Regarding speakers - have a look at the Kii Three's. Making some serious waves in the pro audio world, and only £9K. Cardioid bass above 50Hz, ridiculously flat measurements, active wave tech that makes them only second to the Beolabs ($90K) in terms of room efficiency. Active too, custom hypex/ncore amps. In fact it's the designer behind those revolutionary amps that designed these speakers. I have a set coming next week for audition.
  
 Check the sound on sound review out. 
  
 http://kiiaudio.com/en/press.html
  
 Back OT - the Abyss are indeed great fun for gaming.


----------



## draytonklammer

Just got my Focal Utopia.
 Going to be a long night of listening...
  
 It's a great headphone, that's for sure.
  
 Took some shots of it with my Abyss and Moon Neo 430.


----------



## jelt2359

deuter said:


> I understand your dilemma but when you do get a place buy a speaker setup, all you will need is speakers and amp.Can be a mind blowing experience even without any room treatment.
> 
> I know headphones are easy to pay money for and use as you don't have to worry about the room but spending a fraction of what some these headphones cost for speakers can get you some of the most detailed and totally correct sound.




I think this is incorrect. The room is at least half the equation. Right speakers, wrong room; is often worse than the opposite. Also speakers seem to be really hard to move. I know for sure my speaker buddies would love to have the ability to move gear that I do.


----------



## mulder01

How about that Abyss hey...


----------



## Yoga

jelt2359 said:


> I think this is incorrect. The room is at least half the equation. Right speakers, wrong room; is often worse than the opposite. Also speakers seem to be really hard to move. I know for sure my speaker buddies would love to have the ability to move gear that I do.


 

 You have some serious gear dude. How does the M1 compare to the Dave?


----------



## Rossliew

yoga said:


> You have some serious gear dude. How does the M1 compare to the Dave?


 

 Doubt he even listens with the M1 nowadays..eh, @jelt2359 ?


----------



## jelt2359

yoga said:


> You have some serious gear dude. How does the M1 compare to the Dave?


 
 I just got the M1, a bit of 'new toy syndrome' with it now, but it's definitely a good dac. Vivid, rich, flashes of colour. Also no treble shoutiness, which is very impressive for a DS dac. Been playing with the different filters and haven't quite decided my favourite either. But for me to not think 'this is unlistenable' is already a huge achievement since I'm such a fan of the Dave.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jelt2359 said:


> I just got the M1, a bit of 'new toy syndrome' with it now, but it's definitely a good dac. Vivid, rich, flashes of colour. Also no treble shoutiness, which is very impressive for a DS dac. Been playing with the different filters and haven't quite decided my favourite either. But for me to not think 'this is unlistenable' is already a huge achievement since I'm such a fan of the Dave.


 
  
 Having been a former M1 owner (and HUGE fan) I can attest that the honeymoon phase is long, if not unending.  It is an outstanding DAC.  Try connecting some headphones direct to the XLR outs.


----------



## jelt2359

bigfatpaulie said:


> Having been a former M1 owner (and HUGE fan) I can attest that the honeymoon phase is long, if not unending.  It is an outstanding DAC.  Try connecting some headphones direct to the XLR outs.


 
 Do you know what's the Output Impedance on the XLR? Edit: OK, I see 40ohms. Not too bad.


----------



## mulder01

Is there any time that you SHOULDN'T connect the Abyss to the XLR line level outs of a dac/preamp etc?

 I have never even considered trying it, but that's kinda what the Dave is right?  There is no headphone amplifier as such - just a convenience headphone output straight off the line level out of the DAC?


----------



## jelt2359

mulder01 said:


> Is there any time that you SHOULDN'T connect the Abyss to the XLR line level outs of a dac/preamp etc?
> 
> I have never even considered trying it, but that's kinda what the Dave is right?  There is no headphone amplifier as such - just a convenience headphone output straight off the line level out of the DAC?


 
 The DAVE does a little extra to the headphone output (noise shaping and such), but yes in general it's supposed to be more transparent.
  
 On the flip side the DAVE detects when a headphone is connected directly from the XLR or RCA outs, and doesn't work that way.


----------



## jelt2359

bigfatpaulie said:


> Having been a former M1 owner (and HUGE fan) I can attest that the honeymoon phase is long, if not unending.  It is an outstanding DAC.  Try connecting some headphones direct to the XLR outs.


 
 Good to hear. I must say, I wasn't expecting much after my previous experiences with other DACs compared to the DAVE, where I couldn't stomach them. I was actually forced to live without my DAVE for a few months while it was out on warranty repair, in fact, and that wasn't a good experience.
  
 But with the Bricasti M1, I actually have been able to comfortably spent now quite a few days with it as my only DAC, with my DAVE sitting idly by.
  
 What were your favourite filters on the M1?


----------



## x RELIC x

jelt2359 said:


> The DAVE does a little extra to the headphone output (noise shaping and such), but yes in general it's supposed to be more transparent.
> 
> On the flip side the DAVE detects when a headphone is connected directly from the XLR or RCA outs, and doesn't work that way.




Nope, the DAVE's headphone out does not do any extra 'noise shaping and such' with the headphone out vs the RCA and XLR out. Not sure where you got that from.

Rob does not endorse hooking up headphones to the XLR out of the DAVE because there is low Current output and the impedance is very high (which I imagine is the case for many DACs).

http://www.head-fi.org/t/766517/chord-electronics-dave/840#post_12124924

http://www.head-fi.org/t/766517/chord-electronics-dave/855#post_12127869




Spoiler: Rob on driving headphones from the DAVE's XLR and balanced drive in general






rob watts said:


> Categorically do not do this. The balanced drive has insufficient current drive and is intended to drive power amps only.
> 
> Dave can drive the HE1000 with ease - they are rated at 90 dB 1mW 33 ohms. Dave will give 1.4W into 33 ohms that translates to ear damaging 121 dB SPL with the HE1000.
> 
> ...





rob watts said:


> .....
> Driving with balanced XLRs - this would sound terrible with lots of distortion at reasonable volume levels. So if a listener prefers it that way, then fine, some like distortion. Don't buy a Dave if you like the sound of distortion.
> 
> ....
> ...







And yes, the DAVE has relay's that determine when headphones are plugged in, which disables the RCA and XLR outputs.



rob watts said:


> The RCA output is connected to the headphone - but via different relays. When Dave sees the headphone socket being used, it goes into headphone mode - shuts down the RCA and XLR, and restores the original volume setting when headphones were used last. Also cross-feed is enabled. The headphone sockets we use are as good as the RCA.
> 
> Rob


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jelt2359 said:


> Good to hear. I must say, I wasn't expecting much after my previous experiences with other DACs compared to the DAVE, where I couldn't stomach them. I was actually forced to live without my DAVE for a few months while it was out on warranty repair, in fact, and that wasn't a good experience.
> 
> But with the Bricasti M1, I actually have been able to comfortably spent now quite a few days with it as my only DAC, with my DAVE sitting idly by.
> 
> What were your favourite filters on the M1?


 
  
 Good question; it has been so long.  Truthfully, I found many had little impact and I quickly grew frustrated with them.  I kept thinking - make one good filter and forget the chaff!  I'm a big believer of forgetting the technology and just enjoying the music and love devices that don't stand in the way of that.  I believe Minimum 0 (or was it Linear 0)...?
  
 What I think you may find is that the M1 is a very exciting DAC - it grabs you.  It has a lot of meat and grunt to the sound.  It is exciting.  Switching back to DAVE may almost seem dull at first by contrast, it doesn't have the same impact and edge.  The DAVE, at least for me, will still pull ahead with its effortless, natural, balanced presentation.


----------



## draytonklammer

Somewhat of a preview...


----------



## John2e

draytonklammer said:


> My Utopia arrives on Monday. I have auditioned them against my Abyss on my setup before and enjoyed them.
> 
> I figured it would be a great compliment. An LCD-4 didn't make sense for me because I feel like my Abyss does what they do better.
> 
> ...


 
 Wells Headtrip works great with the Abyss from all I've read. I plan on trying the Abyss eventually...


----------



## jlbrach

if you do indeed get the Dave you will most likely be able to use the Abyss straight out of the Dave although you might well prefer the Moon 430 with the Dave...I am curious as to which you would prefer?


----------



## draytonklammer

jlbrach said:


> if you do indeed get the Dave you will most likely be able to use the Abyss straight out of the Dave although you might well prefer the Moon 430 with the Dave...I am curious as to which you would prefer?


 
 This is the main reason I am thinking about keeping my Moon for a bit longer while I await a DAVE.


----------



## jelt2359

Dave to the Moon to the Abyss will probably be your choice, if you like the tone of the Moon the Dave is not the same at all.


----------



## jlbrach

the dave alone is far more transparent,I have not heard the abyss so i do not know how efficient it is or whether it might or might not require an external amp


----------



## AlanYWM

I think this talk about Dave being so transparent is overrated. It may be very slightly more transparent alone but it is no where much more transparent in a *good setup*. At least not for my setup. I struggle to hear much difference in transparency and actually enjoy a fuller sound with wider soundstage and better 3D effect through my external amp. Yes, I really enjoy my music this way. My Abyss has never sounded this good with my external amp. I also had the opportunity to listen to the Hifiman Shangri-la headphone setup with the Dave. Obviously, one needs an external amp to listen to the Shangri-la as it is an electrostatic headphone. If you think the Dave alone is fantastic, you must listen to the Shangri-la in a proper setup.
  
 Please understand that I am not trying to discredit the Dave. It is a fine sounding DAC and headphone amp. And if you feel that the Dave alone is sufficient for your enjoyment, good for you. But I would never say that the Dave alone is the best sounding setup, imo.


----------



## jlbrach

alanywm said:


> I think this talk about Dave being so transparent is overkill. It may be very slightly more transparent alone but it is no where much more transparent in a *good setup*. At least not for my setup. I struggle to hear much difference in transparency and actually enjoy a fuller sound with wider soundstage and better 3D effect through my external amp. Yes, I really enjoy my music this way. My Abyss has never sounded this good with my external amp. I also had the opportunity to listen to the Hifiman Shangri-la headphone setup with the Dave. Obviously, one needs an external amp to listen to the Shangri-la as it is an electrostatic headphone. If you think the Dave alone is fantastic, you must listen to the Shangri-la in a proper setup.
> 
> Please understand that I am not trying to discredit the Dave. It is a fine sounding DAC and headphone amp. And if you feel that the Dave alone is sufficient for your enjoyment, good for you. But I would never say that the Dave alone is the best sounding setup, imo.


 
 there are very few circumstances where the Dave alone will not be better....perhaps in some cases with the LCD-4's because they are so power hungry but in most cases the Dave will easily drive most HP's and that is the way the Chord people recommend...that said,with an an external amp the sound is changed and if you like that sound more then by all means use the external amp.....


----------



## Kevinspeed

Does anyone near New Orleans own a pair of Abyss AB-1266 headphones?  I would like to try them out before I make a purchase.  Anyone interested could get a listen with my Cavalli Liquid Gold and Magnan Cables.  Thanks in advance for replies.
  
 Kevin


----------



## AlanYWM

jlbrach said:


> that said,with an an external amp the sound is changed and if you like that sound more then by all means use the external amp.....


 
 Yes. Adding an amp may change the sound, but so will a headphone and the headphone cable. At this level, almost every component will change the sound. The question is whether the change is for the better or worse.


----------



## jlbrach

alanywm said:


> Yes. Adding an amp may change the sound, but so will a headphone and the headphone cable. At this level, almost every component will change the sound. The question is whether the change is for the better or worse.


 
 I can say with quite a bit of confidence that the use of an external power amp will color the sound quite a bit more than a cable will.....perhaps people like it better and in some cases it is a necessity but an amp does indeed make a change to what you hear


----------



## astralpen

Too bad...I was hopeful about these.  JPS makes some great cable and are nice people as well.


----------



## mulder01

astralpen said:


> Too bad...I was hopeful about these.  JPS makes some great cable and are nice people as well.


 
  
 Who are you responding to?


----------



## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> Who are you responding to?


 
 This^
  
 I have owned every TOTL and plenty of TOTL amps/dacs, etc. and the Abyss AB-1266 is a permanent member of my collection at the moment.


----------



## jlbrach

i have had my abyss for a couple of days and thus far i am very impressed...up until now i have gone back and forth between the lcd-4 and utopia as to which is the best HP out there....the abyss has certainly made this a 3 way discussion and i would go so far as to that if the abyss was as comfortable and easy to wear and put on and take as the utopia is it would be my go to HP....the damn thing sounds so good but is so finicky and difficult to get just right....each time i put it on is an ordeal but while i have it on the performance is glorious....hopefully over time i figure out the fit issues


----------



## draytonklammer

jlbrach said:


> i have had my abyss for a couple of days and thus far i am very impressed...up until now i have gone back and forth between the lcd-4 and utopia as to which is the best HP out there....the abyss has certainly made this a 3 way discussion and i would go so far as to that if the abyss was as comfortable and easy to wear and put on and take as the utopia is it would be my go to HP....the damn thing sounds so good but is so finicky and difficult to get just right....each time i put it on is an ordeal but while i have it on the performance is glorious....hopefully over time i figure out the fit issues


 
 I had the same issues originally.
  
 What fixed 90% of fit issues for me was getting a different sized headband (the ear pads shouldn't touch your ears in any way)


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jlbrach said:


> i have had my abyss for a couple of days and thus far i am very impressed...up until now i have gone back and forth between the lcd-4 and utopia as to which is the best HP out there....the abyss has certainly made this a 3 way discussion and i would go so far as to that if the abyss was as comfortable and easy to wear and put on and take as the utopia is it would be my go to HP....the damn thing sounds so good but is so finicky and difficult to get just right....each time i put it on is an ordeal but while i have it on the performance is glorious....hopefully over time i figure out the fit issues


 
  
  
 Haha.  I know this road all too well.


----------



## astralpen

Sorry, I was responding to the reviewer...


----------



## jlbrach

draytonklammer said:


> I had the same issues originally.
> 
> What fixed 90% of fit issues for me was getting a different sized headband (the ear pads shouldn't touch your ears in any way)


 
 i have read that the earpads should form a very light seal...just barely touching the ears or side of the head....if i was to have my abyss not touch my ears at all it would literally be moving all over the place and i would be unable to use them....


----------



## Yoga

The Abyss has proven to be a rock solid investment in sound. Especially complimentary to other flagships, rather than in competition.

 I may be selling mine, which is a shame; their use has dropped drastically upon investing in a 2CH studio.


----------



## up late

jlbrach said:


> i have read that the earpads should form a very light seal...just barely touching the ears or side of the head....if i was to have my abyss not touch my ears at all it would literally be moving all over the place and i would be unable to use them....


 
  
 if the ear pads aren't touching your ears then you wouldn't have a seal and there would be a loss of bass as a consequence. my understanding is that you wear it with a light seal as you are doing.


----------



## draytonklammer

My Abyss doesn't touch my ears and forms a light seal. Best fit I've found for me. That also leaves space between the headband and the aluminum piece above that.


----------



## mulder01

Yeah so it lightly seals around the side of your head.

I was also confused after your other post - it sounded like the headphones were not touching your head at all.


jibrach I think once you get settled with the abyss, you either won't adjust it at all, or know exactly how to adjust it in a snap between genres to get the response just how you like it. It is worth it in the end.


----------



## Toolman

Abyss is my "selfish" headphone...coz I won't let any other one try it on (and screw up * my perfect fit * at the moment )


----------



## up late

draytonklammer said:


> My Abyss doesn't touch my ears and forms a light seal. Best fit I've found for me. That also leaves space between the headband and the aluminum piece above that.




your ears must be much smaller than mine


----------



## deuter

yoga said:


> The Abyss has proven to be a rock solid investment in sound. Especially complimentary to other flagships, rather than in competition.
> 
> 
> I may be selling mine, which is a shame; their use has dropped drastically upon investing in a 2CH studio.




Headphones and Speakers serve different requirements


----------



## jlbrach

toolman said:


> Abyss is my "selfish" headphone...coz I won't let any other one try it on (and screw up * my perfect fit * at the moment )


 
 thats funny,my brother is coming to visit me and wants to try out my abyss...i told him no lol...i am working too hard to get the proper fit.....as far as ears not touching that would be completely impossible for me....


----------



## tassardar

While using the headphone today, the band just broke. Looks like it got cut by the grove of the headphone. Shucks now I need a new one else it's unusable =\


----------



## Yoga

deuter said:


> Headphones and Speakers serve different requirements


 

 No kidding. It's nothing to do with that - it's listening time.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

@tassardar a drop of super glue is a semi permanent fix. Butt ends and hold for about 30 seconds, let sit at least and hour to cure, then reinstall. PM me if you want to order new.


----------



## odanovich

tassardar said:


> While using the headphone today, the band just broke. Looks like it got cut by the grove of the headphone. Shucks now I need a new one else it's unusable =\





This scenario is a conundrum...

The leather pad is stitched closed.. Therefor you cant just buy a new rubber ring.. There is no way to insert it without breaking the circle..

So the only solution is:

A) buy a replacement lambskin headband ($$$ ouch $$$)

B) pray that its covered by warranty

C) Industrial Glue. Hobby Lobby has alot. (Cheap. Effective. Less Waiting.)

best of luck


----------



## jlbrach

Hard to imagine that ring breaking like that. Mine seems quite secure hopefully this is a one off situation


----------



## tassardar

The set I got is less the a year old from a local retailer hmmm. Maybe I'll just retro fit something since changing the band if not covered by warranty is a little too expensive. Also I need a smaller band, the given one is too slack.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Suppose that's what happens when you play with the headband too much..


http://www.head-fi.org/t/830399/final-list-announced-aune-s6-32bit-384k-dsd-128-dac-amp-worldwide-review-tour-come-win-your-new-years-gift/105#post_13287317


----------



## tassardar

Haha. Can't leave it on the headphone stand attached . It's getting too stretched. So I only mount it when I use. Doesn't seem too happy about it and gave way


----------



## mulder01

If you don't want to suspend the headphones off the headband, I have seen a few people hang them off the top frame instead like this:


----------



## jlbrach

mulder01 said:


> If you don't want to suspend the headphones off the headband, I have seen a few people hang them off the top frame instead like this:


 
 that is very interesting and might actually make sense because there is no way the metal frame would be any worse off hanging it that way


----------



## Beolab

Yes that is my best solution to avoid the extension tear on the headband


----------



## jlbrach

I have now changed my method on the stand..no longer do i leave them suspended by the headband....seems a much better situation


----------



## draytonklammer

I just changed mine to that as well.


----------



## tassardar

I actually remove the band when I hang the headphone. The rubber has stretched till very lose. Maybe ill just properly measure and just a fixed rope.


----------



## draytonklammer

tassardar said:


> I actually remove the band when I hang the headphone. The rubber has stretched till very lose. Maybe ill just properly measure and just a fixed rope.




I feel like removing it would cause more problems than it would fix.


----------



## tassardar

I think the best way is to replace the band to something more fixed haha. Or a way stronger suspension rubber


----------



## mulder01

I think the thing that stretches and wears the rubber band is the removing and re attaching though. If you left it on you'd probably find you have no issues.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

I have some very cool news! 

We've managed to squeak greater transparency to the source out of the AB-1266 drivers. 

In working toward creating the world's thinnest boutique headphone Diana, a new high-tech magnet was created that allowed us to further customize the magnetic field and refine the AB-1266 transducer.

Bottom line, we are now producing new drivers for the AB-1266, the update named the AB-1266 Phi, after the lower case Greek symbol φ.

Much improved transparency to the source, crazy low frequency impact and res, EDM plays at any level, scary vocals, you get the idea.

The best attributes of dynamic, planar, and electrostatic transducers, rolled into one.

More to come...


----------



## HiFiGuy528

joe skubinski said:


> I have some very cool news!
> 
> We've managed to squeak greater transparency to the source out of the AB-1266 drivers.
> 
> ...


 
  
 ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️


----------



## up late

that is interesting news. guess i'll be giving the ab-1266 phi a listen down the track.


----------



## draytonklammer

Any thoughts on pricing that you can let current owners know?


----------



## czy6412

Any possible upgrade program for the current owner?


----------



## Toolman

czy6412 said:


> Any possible upgrade program for the current owner?


 

 +1


----------



## tassardar

czy6412 said:


> Any possible upgrade program for the current owner?




+2


----------



## Chichiba

tassardar said:


> +2


+3


----------



## BadBoy

+4


----------



## FastAndClean

bad news for Bian


----------



## bigfatpaulie

joe skubinski said:


> I have some very cool news!
> 
> We've managed to squeak greater transparency to the source out of the AB-1266 drivers.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Price?
  
 Availability?
  
 Do they share the same look?


----------



## jlbrach

I certainly do hope current owners of the 1266 will be able to upgrade their HP's


----------



## Beolab

Most appreciated update! 

Now the Abyss project will most likely take a bigger step ahead from the contenders ( Stax SR-009 , HiFiman , Audeze LCD-4 , Pioneer MA-1 , Senn HE-1 , Focal Utopia and the rest in the Ultra High End category. 


Hope the price on the Phi go up a bit so it differentiate to the org. AB-1266 model. 


Worlds best headphone have got even better!


----------



## Jozurr

The bigger question is, is the design still the same


----------



## Yugo

jozurr said:


> The bigger question is, is the design still the same


 
 +1


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Any existing AB-1266 can be upgraded to the new Phi version. The cost is 1500 USD which includes a new pair of AB-1266 Phi drivers, a one year warranty on the drivers, and return shipping. Upgrades are only available factory direct, the headphone (only) needs to come home.

Please email joe@abyss-headphones.com if you would like to upgrade and we’ll get back to you with more specifics.

Should mention, the new AB-1266 Phi retails for the same price as the original model.


----------



## deuter

joe skubinski said:


> Any existing AB-1266 can be upgraded to the new Phi version. The cost is 1500 USD which includes a new pair of AB-1266 Phi drivers, a one year warranty on the drivers, and return shipping. Upgrades are only available factory direct, the headphone (only) needs to come home.
> 
> 
> 
> Please email joe@abyss-headphones.com if you would like to upgrade and we’ll get back to you with more specifics.



 


Nice, I was hoping for $1000.00 per driver. This is cheaper than I thought.
Awesome.

Does it mean the new headphones will cost $1500 more?


----------



## draytonklammer

That's not awful, especially considering this update versus the launch date.
 I'm considering it, I just wonder how it will respond to the update compared to my Utopia.
  
 I love both my Abyss and the Utopia, but right now I find the Utopia easier to wear for longer periods of time which gives it a huge edge. The Abyss is my fun headphone, whereas the Utopia is my daily driver/reference headphone.


----------



## Chichiba

Really a great news, upgrade price is reasonable, just wonder the new drivers are easier or more difficult to drive, more power hungry?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Website has been updated with the new specs, http://abyss-headphones.com/abyss_ab_1266.html

Sensitivity increased a few dB, impedance came down 10% to 42 ohms. They are a bit easier to drive, you will find yourself playing them at a lower volume that the original.

Transparency to the original recording is beyond expectation. What was once a bit veiled is easy to hear, the room boundaries, ambiance, you're closer to the microphone than ever before. Only catch is the recording.

Jason here was maxing out the Moon 430 playing EDM the other day, they play fast and clean. Crazy bass detail, crazy mid detail, clear highs. I was listening to some of Chesky's binaural recordings, in some they are talking near the dummies ears, may as well be your own.

We're going to need better amps (again)


----------



## Xecuter

Wow, such interesting news.
  
 I'm more concerned that this upgrade will change the voicing to something I am less fond of..
 Hopefully I can get a loaner of the upgraded unit. Else I will have to have two x abyss :/


----------



## Chichiba

Thanks Joe for the details, it's really tempting!


----------



## Toolman

fastandclean said:


> bad news for Bian




I sense Edition 8 is coming soon?


----------



## Toolman

joe skubinski said:


> Upgrades are only available factory direct, the headphone (only) needs to come home.




How about us overseas Abyss owner? Do we need to ship back directly to you? and if the cost for upgrade includes shipping back to me?

btw I'm from Singapore


----------



## mulder01

xecuter said:


> Wow, such interesting news.
> 
> I'm more concerned that this upgrade will change the voicing to something I am less fond of..
> Hopefully I can get a loaner of the upgraded unit. Else I will have to have two x abyss :/


 
  
 I vote you get two Abyss 
  
 How long until the new models are in store Joe?


----------



## isuperfish

joe skubinski said:


> Website has been updated with the new specs, http://abyss-headphones.com/abyss_ab_1266.html
> 
> Sensitivity increased a few dB, impedance came down 10% to 42 ohms. They are a bit easier to drive, you will find yourself playing them at a lower volume that the original.
> 
> ...


 

 Is Moon 430 up to the job to drive the 1266 well in general? I know there are always better options though.


----------



## mulder01

isuperfish said:


> Is Moon 430 up to the job to drive the 1266 well in general? I know there are always better options though.


 
  
 The Moon 430 has a lot of fans.  
  
 I'm using my Abyss straight out of a DAP which does a great job (at reasonable volume levels) and the new Abyss looks to be even easier to drive than the current version.  Many people are also using their Abyss straight out of a Dave which I believe is essentially a line level output.  
  
 Gobs of power is often desired for an Abyss system but not essential.  More of a question of voicing and personal preference I think - even probably moreso now with the Phi - if it's meant to sound even more like the source/amp than before.


----------



## isuperfish

I think I might asked the question in a wrong way. I have 430HA and I am thinking about getting the new 1266, I was trying to ask if 430HA will be good enough to do the job, but as I re-read my question it kinda sounds like I'm doubting the ones who are using 430HA to drive the 1266s.


----------



## Beolab

The 430 is a slight laid back smoother in its signature presentation and need more bottom end, drive and control, but yes it can drive the Abyss, but not to the fullest of their potential in my opinion, vs other amps. 

With DAVE you get a very transparent but kind of flat analytic sound 
( Studio Monitor sound) , and it can be a slight boring in the long term in combination with Abyss, without any separate amp in between. 

But my recommendation is to try the 430 with the new Abyss Phi and see what you think, it is a highly regarded amp. 

It is more down to when you have listened to most of the known High End amps / DAC's mated to Abyss, you raise you reference bar each time if you find it better, and it is harder to go back. So it is easier to not listen to anything else if one is happy with their gear / sound.


----------



## deuter

beolab said:


> The 430 is a slight laid back in its signature and need more bottom end, drive and control, but yes it can drive the Abyss, but not to the fullest of their potential in my opinion.
> 
> But my rekomendation is to try it with the Abyss and see what you think, it is a highly regarded amp.[/quote
> 
> ...


----------



## Joe Skubinski

mulder01 said:


> I vote you get two Abyss
> 
> How long until the new models are in store Joe?




A2A ordered the Phi for their stores, about a month.



isuperfish said:


> Is Moon 430 up to the job to drive the 1266 well in general? I know there are always better options though.




I think the Moon 430 and the AB-1266 Phi are an excellent combo.


----------



## Yoga

How refreshing. That's how it _should_ be done. Not countless distinct revisions (hello, Audeze et al.), an updated driver that is added to new models and upgraded in the older.
  
 Respect to you for not releasing the AB-1288's for £5K.


----------



## jlbrach

beolab said:


> The 430 is a slight laid back smoother in its signature presentation and need more bottom end, drive and control, but yes it can drive the Abyss, but not to the fullest of their potential in my opinion, vs other amps.
> 
> With DAVE you get a very transparent but kind of flat analytic sound
> ( Studio Monitor sound) , and it can be a slight boring in the long term in combination with Abyss, without any separate amp in between.
> ...


 
 I use the Abyss straight out of my Dave and it drives it just fine...I also have the Moon 430 which is a fantastic amp...that said,straight out of the Dave is simply better..more transparent...if you like the colored sound of an amp any amp that is obviously personal preference


----------



## MattTCG

620 grams, seriously?


----------



## Beolab

jlbrach said:


> I use the Abyss straight out of my Dave and it drives it just fine...I also have the Moon 430 which is a fantastic amp...that said,straight out of the Dave is simply better..more transparent...if you like the colored sound of an amp any amp that is obviously personal preference




The old amp debate again  

I got them both but moon 600i insted of 430 , and honestly i would say the best sound is someware in between them two, but the favor is laying towards DAVE
( DAVE -II-- 600i) 

When you listen to DAVE you feel you are losing a bit life "room presents" , atmosphere , bottom end are more numb, 
and it sound a bit flat ( especially with headphones like HD650 or HD800), if you have heard the band plaing live in a studio which i have on a very few albums i got in my possession for example. 
With the Moon, you receive a bigger more richer balanced / fuller and slight smoother ( colorised) sound, but less transparancy, not perfect, but some friends who like to listen to music and play instruments and like high end gear but who only have read about it, are trouly blown away when i start with just DAVE, and then attach the Moon to the mix. 

They do not understand wich combination they have listen to. But in the end they favor the 600i in the mix because the sound got more life and feel more musical and impact-ful. 

To my ears who are more experienced HiFi listener can say that the DAVE alone is the best, no question about it, but in the long term it is more easy to listen to the DAVE with a high end amp 

So i would have liked a few filtersettings on DAVE would have been great, so you can control it for your self from track to track. 

No normal person like it to sterile / flat with a microscopic lence feel in every detail or flaw, it does not sound like that in real life, because we are not accuse to it. When we listen to a concert the sound are also slight colorised with warmth from the acustics in the music hall or from the mixing tables ( if non classical ) . 

So yes slight color do we all humans like, so my guess is that the Hugo 2 with the Mojo filter + Blue II combo could be a hit. I got them both on order, and will compare the Blu II + Hugo2 with DAVE and vice versa.


----------



## groovyd

now they just need to put them in a headband that doesn't look ridiculous and they have a winner


----------



## jhai

xecuter said:


> Wow, such interesting news.
> 
> I'm more concerned that this upgrade will change the voicing to something I am less fond of..
> Hopefully I can get a loaner of the upgraded unit. Else I will have to have two x abyss :/


 

 My concern is similar to Xecuter's. Will wait for what I hope will be additional feedback from owners updating from the original as to perceived differences.
 Should anyone be doing so, I am particularly interested in them, (in being 'quicker/cleaner' I believe) not being clinical in achieving this.
 I also have found, (personal opinion of course) that they are slightly recessed in the mid range, (just a little "U" curved) & interested in any change re this.
 THANKS.


----------



## Xecuter

Do we get to keep out original drivers? If I don't like this update, I would be happy if I had an option to reverse the mod..


----------



## jelt2359

xecuter said:


> Do we get to keep out original drivers? If I don't like this update, I would be happy if I had an option to reverse the mod..


 
 This is what Joe sent me:
  
 That pricing considers the trade-in of your original speaker drivers. Missing drivers will incur an additional charge to complete the upgrade.


----------



## pervysage

groovyd said:


> now they just need to put them in a headband that doesn't look ridiculous and they have a winner




No kidding lol. I am very interested in these cans but don't want to end up looking like this when I want to enjoy some tunes:


----------



## Yoga

I'm at a loss with people who go on about the looks. They CANNOT have a typical headband due to the nature of how they should be placed on your ears (a light touch, no clamping whatsoever).
  
 Buying headphones—which you wear at home, alone—at this price level while prioritising looks over sound is completely non-sensical. 
  
 If you want a unique, spacious and dynamic sound style that can't be had by _any other headphone on the planet_ - the Abyss are for you. If you want a _typical_ sounding headphone that is expensive, great sounding and _pretty_ (so you look 'cool' in selfies or in the reflection of your monitor), look elsewhere.


----------



## Jozurr

yoga said:


> I'm at a loss with people who go on about the looks. They CANNOT have a typical headband due to the nature of how they should be placed on your ears (a light touch, no clamping whatsoever).
> 
> Buying headphones—which you wear at home, alone—at this price level while prioritising looks over sound is completely non-sensical.
> 
> If you want a unique, spacious and dynamic sound style that can't be had by _any other headphone on the planet_ - the Abyss are for you. If you want a _typical_ sounding headphone that is expensive, great sounding and _pretty_ (so you look 'cool' in selfies or in the reflection of your monitor), look elsewhere.




Its the weight of the headphones floating on your head putting pressure with a stupid headband which is the problem, not the "looks".


----------



## jelt2359

Is it meant to be used entirely with the weight on the headband? A bit late to ask, but thought I'd confirm it anyway.


----------



## mulder01

If you have a desperate need to look 'normal' you could always whip up your own headband like I did.  Not an impossible weekend project by any means.
  

  
 People depriving themselves of audio nirvana because they don't like the styling is crazy.


----------



## Toolman

The industrial look never bothered me, this thing is built like a tank and so long as they are balanced and comfortable I couldn't care less. 

Now that's not to say the Abyss cannot be designed to look better or even offering more comfort :rolleyes:


----------



## MattTCG

Who said anything about looks? I mentioned the ridiculous weight. Almost a pound and a half just makes me shake my head at the design decisions. I wouldn't even want to audition these. They make the lcd series look light.


----------



## Chichiba

I owned LCD3 and LCD4, and I think abyss is more comfortable, because the weight is "more balanced" and less clamping force too, YMMV


----------



## bigfatpaulie

chichiba said:


> I owned LCD3 and LCD4, and I think abyss is more comfortable, because the weight is "more balanced" and less clamping force too, YMMV


 
  
 I absolutely agree.  I find the Abyss, when properly fit, surprisingly comfortable.  The weight, for me is not an issue but I found the LCD4's almost unwearable.  The same goes for stock HE6's - for me.  
  
 The Abyss are ugly (to me) but the design, albeit unorthodox, is actually pretty clever.  There was definitely a lot of outside the box thinking going on during their conception.  It's a shame that being so different is part of their curse and some won't even try them because of it.


----------



## phaeton70

subbed, definitely interested in the phi


----------



## MacedonianHero (Nov 1, 2017)

NVM.


----------



## Mark Up

matttcg said:


> Who said anything about looks? I mentioned ridiculous weight. Almost a pound and a half just makes me shake my head.


 
 Not just that, they don't extend down far enough to fit my large head (not just wide but their distance down to my ears). Too bad, they were amazing sounding at CanJam NYC. This I don't get - especially from such expensive cans. You can easily add an inch of extra travel to a headband on each side to acommodate all sizes. The Sennheiser HD650 for example actually opens farther than I need to reach my ears, a very rare thing. Does that affect the quality of the headphones or its ability to fit smaller heads? No, and it might only add a few dollars to their cost of manufacturing at best. It's like if I get my hair cut I tell them don't cut too much off. You can cut it shorter but you can't cut it longer. I can only think they have a bunch of small head pixies for testing the headphone size. Be it this company, V-Moda, Beats, and many other brands that don't get it. The longer extension should never be a problem.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

macedonianhero said:


> I'm the other way Paul...I'm fine with the LCD-4s, but with my noggin' the Abyss' comfort was quite abysmal after 15 minutes. Tried them many times and always had to take them off after 20 minutes or so. So the moral to the story I suppose is try before you buy. We all have different melons.


 
  
 Absolutely - that is 100% true.  You have to try them yourself.


----------



## Yoga

I'm the camp that finds them comfy to wear and I don't feel the weight at all. 

 Clamping cans often make my head/ears hot, the Abyss stay nice and cool. The only downside for me is having to keep your head relatively still :¬)


----------



## draytonklammer

I find the Abyss very comfortable. 

If it had the weight of something like the Utopia I would find it the most comfortable of any headphones I've tried.

If only it were as light as my Martin Logans  -- although those suckers were quite the haul.


----------



## rdreyer

mark up said:


> matttcg said:
> 
> 
> > Who said anything about looks? I mentioned ridiculous weight. Almost a pound and a half just makes me shake my head.
> ...


 

 I have a fairly large head (the SR-009 and HD800 exert a painful clamp). Joe sent me a leather headband with longer elastics, and extended the length of the metal headband on my Abyss. They first perfectly and comfortably, and feel much more comfortable than other headphones because my ears stay cool.


----------



## jlbrach

matttcg said:


> Who said anything about looks? I mentioned the ridiculous weight. Almost a pound and a half just makes me shake my head at the design decisions. I wouldn't even want to audition these. They make the lcd series look light.


 
 I own the LCD-4 and the Abyss....the LCD-4 is the more traditional fit and the abyss is indeed a bit difficult to fit etc but in terms of weight the abyss is quite well balanced and the weight does not bother me any more than the LCD-4...for me it is more about the effort required to put the abyss on and take it off and keep it balanced and centered on my head
  
 It is interesting how everybody hears things differently...I like the abyss quite a bit more than the Utopia in terms of sound not comfort...I love the LCD-4 and always liked it more than the Utopia...


----------



## MattTCG

I appreciate what you guys are saying, truly. But...distributing the weight only eliminates the *hotspots* that you get with something like the lcd series. What it doesn't do is overcome the principals of gravity. How comfortable is this headphone after an hour or three? Comfort is my #1 criteria when choosing a headphone. There are lot's of great headphones that I have tried to own that ultimately collected dust because of the weight/comfort issues. 
  
 IMHO it's not acceptable for a headphone, even a flagship, to weight more than 400 grams. It's been done before so the bar is set as far as I'm concerned.
  
 *Ether Flow 375
  
 *Ether Flow Closed 400
  
 *hd800/S 380
  
 *hifiman Edition x v2 399
  
 *Stax sr007 mkii 350
  
 I certainly respect that there are many guys out there who can accomodate the weight. But the market on a headphone at this price level is a VERY niche market. Why rule out prospective customers because you didn't design your product to be appreciable more comfortable?  Any I digress and don't mean to derail here, carry on.


----------



## mulder01

mark up said:


> Not just that, they don't extend down far enough to fit my large head (not just wide but their distance down to my ears). Too bad, they were amazing sounding at CanJam NYC. This I don't get - especially from such expensive cans. You can easily add an inch of extra travel to a headband on each side to acommodate all sizes. The Sennheiser HD650 for example actually opens farther than I need to reach my ears, a very rare thing. Does that affect the quality of the headphones or its ability to fit smaller heads? No, and it might only add a few dollars to their cost of manufacturing at best. It's like if I get my hair cut I tell them don't cut too much off. You can cut it shorter but you can't cut it longer. I can only think they have a bunch of small head pixies for testing the headphone size. Be it this company, V-Moda, Beats, and many other brands that don't get it. The longer extension should never be a problem.


 
  
 I was going to mention rdreyer's suggestion as well, or before I made my own headband I just attached the stock one to some velcro on the side and found I could adjust the height quite a bit - and if someone else wants to have a listen you can just undo the velcro and re-adjust to get an optimal fit on their head too.  You can't see in this photo but the adjusting nut on top of the headband was probably only about 2mm away from touching the leather strap for my big noggin.


----------



## mulder01

matttcg said:


> I appreciate what you guys are saying, truly. But...distributing the weight only eliminates the *hotspots* that you get with something like the lcd series. What it doesn't do is overcome the principals of gravity. How comfortable is this headphone after an hour or three? Comfort is my #1 criteria when choosing a headphone. There are lot's of great headphones that I have tried to own that ultimately collected dust because of the weight/comfort issues.
> 
> IMHO it's not acceptable for a headphone, even a flagship, to weight more than 400 grams. It's been done before so the bar is set as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah ok so you can't wear headphones over 400g.  Then it's not for you.  Maybe give the Diana a try when it comes out - I am of the understanding that these improved drivers for the Abyss were developed while designing a driver for the Diana.  It may not be a long way behind the Abyss if that's the case.


----------



## czy6412

mulder01 said:


> If you have a desperate need to look 'normal' you could always whip up your own headband like I did.  Not an impossible weekend project by any means.
> 
> 
> 
> People depriving themselves of audio nirvana because they don't like the styling is crazy.


 
 Damn I love that headband, just don't know how to make one.


----------



## Chichiba

Any difference on sound compared with original? I guess the "firm" metal structure contributes the SQ and stability, and it leave more space between the earpad and your ears.


----------



## mulder01

czy6412 said:


> Damn I love that headband, just don't know how to make one.


 
  
 It's probably not as impressive up close... It does work well though.  
  
 The two main straps going over the top are just pieces of black acrylic.  I cut them to shape and length and put them in the oven and while they were soft, moulded them to my head.  The bit of padding on the underside is just a piece of thick material doubled over, sewn together and stuck to the bottom of the headband.  The black spacers between the two bits of acrylic on the side are just chunks of rubber (thought it was plastic when I bought it) that have been cut to the right thickness and angled to fit my head properly.  
  
 I guess there was a bit of measuring and trial and error involved - you want the earpads to very lightly touch your head without any extra pressure in any spot, and given that neither your head nor the earpads are flat, you can't really measure them super well.  This headband is not spring loaded in any way and only fits my own head.  I used the existing 3 holes in the top of the driver casing to attach the new headband to the drivers - if I ever sell or if someone else wants a listen, it's just a matter of undoing the 2x3 screws and putting the old headband back on.
  


chichiba said:


> Any difference on sound compared with original? I guess the "firm" metal structure contributes the SQ and stability, and it leave more space between the earpad and your ears.


 
  
 The space from headband to ear is the same as it is still a rigid structure - it is whatever width you make it.  No perceivable difference in sound to me.  The sound changes when you adjust the fit of the stock headband, so however you have the drivers positioned will determine the sound more so than the type of material the drivers are hanging off.  I suppose the materials would have different dampening qualities but by that same logic, if you touched the headphone while it was on your head (without moving it) your fingers would absorb vibration and change the dampening qualities as well.  So if there is a difference, I would liken it to the difference between wearing the normal headband normally and wearing the normal headband normally but touching it with your finger...


----------



## astrostar59

mulder01 said:


> If you have a desperate need to look 'normal' you could always whip up your own headband like I did.  Not an impossible weekend project by any means.
> 
> 
> 
> People depriving themselves of audio nirvana because they don't like the styling is crazy.


 
 I think that is pretty clever TBH. You seem to have found a way to drop the entire head frame and reverted to a more conventional top arc. How is the weight? And can you get a decent seal still? The headband on the Stax 007s is along those lines inc no band adjustment, as it seems to work in that case. I would suggest hanging the frame on your stand to avoid stressing the fabric arc. I do that when I hand the 009s (support the weight on the plastic arc).


----------



## mulder01

It is probably hard to see in that photo, but the inner arc is still hard plastic and just covered with fabric underneath for padding. Weight is a little lighter than the stock headband and a bit more distributed as the inner band is moulded to my head. If you put a piece of acrylic in the oven at 170C, it goes soft enough to mould - so I got some padding, put it on my head, took the acrylic out of the oven and laid it over my head and let it cool (only takes about a minute to cool) and I have a solid structure to mount the drivers from, and the exact right shape to fit my head after it's fitted with padding. If that makes sense. I nearly did a video as I was making it to show how it was done but it never happened... Kinda forgot and also figured nobody would actually make one themselves either. It is more of a 'me' problem with my giant noggin...

I get a more even seal than I did before, because I can now have the drivers angled in under my ears more - if I get that angle out of the stock band, it doesn't expand anywhere near wide enough, or if I expand it wide enough, I can't angle them back in under my ears.


----------



## jlbrach

that looks like a butchered Abyss...i get the idea behind it but to me there is something quite special and distinct about the abyss  and it's designapart from all it's competitors...i sure wouldnt buy a used version looking like that but i am sure there are some who might


----------



## mulder01

jlbrach said:


> that looks like a butchered Abyss...i get the idea behind it but to me there is something quite special and distinct about the abyss  and it's designapart from all it's competitors...i sure wouldnt buy a used version looking like that but i am sure there are some who might


 
  
 Not sure if you have been reading the thread but I made it for practicality reasons rather than aesthetics.  Also (for about the 5th time), it attaches to the drivers using the factory holes and the stock headband can be refit in about 2 minutes.


----------



## mulder01

If anyone in Aus is keen for the current version, A2A is selling the demo lite pair for $4.3k AUD which is a pretty unheard of price.

https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones


----------



## deuter

mulder01 said:


> If anyone in Aus is keen for the current version, A2A is selling the demo lite pair for $4.3k AUD which is a pretty unheard of price.
> 
> https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones




That is more expensive than a used Utopia


----------



## Toolman

A$4.3K for a used Abyss...I would say that is considered expensive.

Most in Singapore goes for around S$3.5K used in minty condition


----------



## czy6412

deuter said:


> That is more expensive than a used Utopia




Because of the better sound


----------



## Toolman

A new Abyss is more expensive than a new Utopia to start with...so this is no surprise


----------



## mulder01

Well demo is kinda used kinda not really - you get a warranty through the dealer from the day you purchase it.  I would take a dealer demo pair over a used pair any day - especially for the same money.  RRP here is $7k for lite $8.5k with manbag.  $4.3k from a dealer is good I thought.
  
 Anyways - just letting people know - I'm sure someone is looking to save a few bob.
  


deuter said:


> That is more expensive than a used Utopia


 
  
 Yep, it's also more expensive than some used cars...
 Kinda an apples and oranges comparison...


----------



## Toolman

mulder01 said:


> RRP here is $7k for lite $8.5k with manbag.  $4.3k from a dealer is good I thought




In this context, yup its a pretty good deal


----------



## erik701

mulder01 said:


> Well demo is kinda used kinda not really - you get a warranty through the dealer from the day you purchase it.  I would take a dealer demo pair over a used pair any day - especially for the same money.  RRP here is $7k for lite $8.5k with manbag.  $4.3k from a dealer is good I thought.
> 
> Anyways - just letting people know - I'm sure someone is looking to save a few bob.
> 
> ...


 

 You should mentioned that you price is in Australian dollars, not US dollars. I'm watching around used Abyss market for few months already and currently there are more than enough Abyss headphone for sale and I think that because of Phi version introduction, we will see even more. I believe for some owners will be cheaper to sell their pair and purchase new one with Phi drivers, like to upgrade their old one. 
  
 In Europe there is not a lot Abyss dealers. UK was good option for European buyer, but is not anymore, as because of Brexit, prices of Abyss went significantly up.


----------



## mulder01

erik701 said:


> You should mentioned that you price is in Australian dollars, not US dollars.


 
  
 You mean like this?
  


mulder01 said:


> If anyone in Aus is keen for the current version, A2A is selling the demo lite pair for $4.3k *AUD* which is a pretty unheard of price.
> 
> https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones


 
  
 $4388AUD = 2668GBP - that's pretty good for new(ish)
  
 ---
  
 I wonder if people will sell their current model Abyss though - I mean, if you want to upgrade to Phi, you just have to pay the upgrade cost - not sell yours and buy a new pair.  Potentially there will be more people looking to buy a second hand pair for cheap then pay the upgrade price and get to own and try out both models for less than the RRP of a new Phi.  Demand could outweigh supply and push the price up? Maybe?  Maybe not.  Could go either way.  I wonder if you have to be the first owner of a pair to get the upgrade option or if it's open to second/third owners.


----------



## erik701

mulder01 said:


> You mean like this?
> 
> 
> $4388AUD = 2668GBP - that's pretty good for new(ish)
> ...


 

 Aaaah, I see it now, so my apology. You mentioned that price is in AUD.


----------



## erik701

erik701 said:


> Aaaah, I see it now, so my apology. You mentioned that price is in AUD.


 

 Maybe you should type AUD in bold in your original post, like for me now


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The new AB-1266 Phi will make it's debut at the SoCal CanJam this weekend. Please visit the Woo Audio and Lotoo booths.

Thanks Everyone!!!

Joe

http://www.head-fi.org/t/822835/canjam-socal-2017-april-8-9-2017#post_12931654


----------



## matthewhypolite

joe skubinski said:


> The new AB-1266 Phi will make it's debut at the SoCal CanJam this weekend. Please visit the Woo Audio and Lotoo booths.
> 
> Thanks Everyone!!!
> 
> ...


 
 Wow, a new AB-1266 ?

 Havent been on head-fi for a while but just noticed this post. What can you share about the new cans?
 Still loving my Abyss.


----------



## John2e

matthewhypolite said:


> Wow, a new AB-1266 ?
> 
> Havent been on head-fi for a while but just noticed this post. What can you share about the new cans?
> Still loving my Abyss.


 
 Check post #5345 for info


----------



## matthewhypolite

john2e said:


> Check post #5345 for info


 
  
 Thanks.


----------



## mulder01

Who's taken the plunge and ordered the upgrade unheard?


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> Who's taken the plunge and ordered the upgrade unheard?




✨

Hopfully i will be the first one to receive and review my Phi in a short period of time  

I will then post some pics and first impressions for you guys! 
But very much point towards that it will be a nice upgrade from the org version, but with the signature visceral Abyss characteristics kept maintained.


----------



## matthewhypolite

beolab said:


> ✨
> 
> Hopfully i will be the first one to receive and review my Phi in a short period of time
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is absolutely essential and paramount to the upgrade. Because its that feature unmatched by any other can. It HAS! to keep that intact.
 Looking forward to your impressions. If they manage to make these things sound better and maintain what makes the Abyss great, then that's an upgrade id be interested in.


----------



## Toolman

Something like a cross between Abyss and Utopia and this will go right to the very top of my own WoF


----------



## matthewhypolite

toolman said:


> Something like a cross between Abyss and Utopia and this will go right to the very top of my own WoF


 
 It would indeed, but i think the Utopia has characteristics exclusive to dynamic drivers, things i've not heard in any planar (lcd 3, HEK, HEK v2, Abyss). And that's the rich full lush tonality. I've not heard a tube amp yet, but the Utopia sounds like what i see folks describe tube sound to be like, like what a good high end speaker would sound like. just buttery smooth and natural. If they manage to deliver those qualities with the Phi, it would be something indeed.


----------



## ufospls2

The new Phi version seems to have a powder coated finish, at least on the driver area of the headphones. I wonder if the whole headphone is this new powder coated finish? Looks good in any case. Wish there was a dealer in my city so I could hear the new drivers


----------



## draytonklammer

I see that too.
  
 If that's the case I wonder if that's included in the upgrade price.


----------



## jelt2359

I'd be surprised- very surprised- if it wasn't. The surface of a driver is critical for tuning the reflections, as us modders of hd800 and he6 know. But the upgrade will only include change of Drivers as far as I know. No change of the rest of the headphone.


----------



## matthewhypolite

The new finish would be great if it were part of the upgrade. For 1500$ the returned product should represent a retail phi.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Seems to be some confusion. The drivers are the upgrade, originals come out, new go in. The face or baffle of the driver is an integral part.

The new flat black ceramic finish is representative of all Phi drivers. Powder coat is the old finish.


----------



## mulder01

I think the question was whether the whole headphone was in the matt black colour instead of the glossy black colour.  But from this picture:
  

  
 It looks as though just that face plate of the driver is changed and the rest of the headphone remains the brushed aluminium look


----------



## Toolman

If only the internals are changed, how does one be able to identify an upgraded Abyss Phi driver vs the plain old vanilla stock driver?


----------



## draytonklammer

toolman said:


> If only the internals are changed, how does one be able to identify an upgraded Abyss Phi driver vs the plain old vanilla stock driver?


 
 My guess is the "phi" symbol.


----------



## Toolman

draytonklammer said:


> toolman said:
> 
> 
> > If only the internals are changed, how does one be able to identify an upgraded Abyss Phi driver vs the plain old vanilla stock driver?
> ...




I see now...the driver and faceplate come together as a unit when upgraded (rather than a separate part)


----------



## draytonklammer

toolman said:


> I see now...the driver and faceplate come together as a unit when upgraded (rather than a separate part)


 
 That's what I am under the impression of, at least.


----------



## isquirrel

Hi guys, I did a mini review of the KR Audio High Performance valves which Joe from JPS Labs had a hand in the design of. Its up on this link. I have communicated with Joe about them, so feel free to ask any questions.
  
 http://www.monoandstereo.com/2017/04/kr-audio-releases-us-only-high.html


----------



## cladane

Hello,
  
  
 Good review @Isquirrel, ordered a pair of 2A3 KR Audio HP for my end of month upcoming new VIVA 2A3 Egoista.
 Seems they bring a high level of transparency and better mediums to this outstanding amp.
  
 Very nice to see that the Abyss is updated.
 Would you say, Joe, that the new drivers are more trebles friendly for the 'miked' violins performances of a René Capuçon ??


----------



## matthewhypolite

toolman said:


> I see now...the driver and faceplate come together as a unit when upgraded (rather than a separate part)


 
  
 Seems like that's what Joe said. But guess he can clarify.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

On the aluminum frame components, headband, side frames, etc, finish and appearance has not changed, hence it's still the AB-1266. Only the speaker drivers have been updated, which includes the faceplate that faces your ear. Picture from Woo was comparing new Phi to an original (show demo pair) side by side.


----------



## matthewhypolite

joe skubinski said:


> On the aluminum frame components, headband, side frames, etc, finish and appearance has not changed, hence it's still the AB-1266. Only the speaker drivers have been updated, which includes the faceplate that faces your ear. Picture from Woo was comparing new Phi to an original (show demo pair) side by side.


 
  
 Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Just a reminder the new AB-1266 Phi will be at SoCal CanJam today and Sunday at the Woo Audio and Lotoo booths..,

http://www.head-fi.org/t/822835/canjam-socal-2017-april-8-9-2017#post_12931654

​


----------



## Kiats

joe skubinski said:


> Just a reminder the new AB-1266 Phi will be at SoCal CanJam today and Sunday at the Woo Audio and Lotoo booths..,
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/822835/canjam-socal-2017-april-8-9-2017#post_12931654




Look forward to impressions.


----------



## cladane

Hello,
 Hello @Kiats,
  
 There should be a phi end of month for the Casques&Headphones Canjam in Nîmes (France) with the new VIVA Egoista mk2 and VIVA 2A3 loaded with a pair of KR Audio HP tubes among other stuff like the AURIS HA2 amp.
  
 Hifiman will bring their Shangri-La and HE6 headphones.
  
 Will post returns of the listenings.


----------



## matthewhypolite

kiats said:


> Look forward to impressions.


 
  
 Very interested in the Phi, waiting on feedback from folks who attend


----------



## Kiats

cladane: thanks!  I look forward to your impressions.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Check out the Cavalli Liquid Tungsten. I hear it sounds _really_ good with the Abyss Phi..


----------



## ThatPhil

Nice to see it finally has some clothes on but whose boneheaded idea was it to only have balanced hp outputs.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

XIAudio (pronounced Eleven Audio) Formula S, class A amplification this AB-1266 Phi also likes very much. This amp will be available in a few months- price TBD.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Woo Audio WA33 with Abyss AB-1266 Phi, stunning fullly balanced 2A3 sound.. 
These upcoming amps are like a dream come true for the new Phi 



​


----------



## mulder01

thatphil said:


> Nice to see it finally has some clothes on but whose boneheaded idea was it to only have balanced hp outputs.


 
  
 If you enlarge the photo it looks like there's a 1/4 inch jack to the left of the XLRs


----------



## mulder01

So, how was it people?


----------



## isquirrel

I have some listening impressions to wet your appetite. Now the Phi is out in the open I think its safe to post these, please note they are not mine, I have NOT heard the Phi yet, however I will be upgrading.
  


> > > "I liked the improvements.
> > >
> > > 1266 Phi has a silky liquid high. The high has a raw texture which makes it a highlight. The classic is a bit aggressive on the top ends which is more fatigue-prone. The sound is more natural compared to classic. Bass is deeper and more solid. Mid range is fuller. The tone is warmer. Bass comes out more prominent, however. Proper amping is required. 234 and WA33 mate it very well."
> > >
> > > "Abyss Phi has the best sound stage among all. It always gives you speaker-like sound. Strong bass more than the original".


  
 I will post more when I have them.


----------



## cladane

Hello,
  
 Reading @isquirrel report those are very good news as JPS seem to have managed this sharpness in the Highs which was a trouble for classic recordings involving violins or cymbals plays 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Mediums improved also, nice.
 Soundstage has always been top.


----------



## matthewhypolite

isquirrel said:


> I have some listening impressions to wet your appetite. Now the Phi is out in the open I think its safe to post these, please note they are not mine, I have NOT heard the Phi yet, however I will be upgrading.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's great to hear, aside from the fit issues, the one other area of the abyss i think could be updated is that aggressive top end, which as those impression says, can become fatiguing, if that's smoothed out, then great. Also, bass is deeper? wow. Yes please, sign me up.


----------



## Thaudiophile

How are these Abyss Headphones for gaming?


----------



## matthewhypolite

thaudiophile said:


> How are these Abyss Headphones for gaming?




Depends, if you're MP focused, you'll probably want something like the He1000 v1/v2, they are better for long sessions and not distracting and in your face like the abyss. They're great for short bursts or Sp games where you want the best audio. They do sound great, but can become fatiguing, so i dont usually reach for my abyss when time to game.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Audio Bacon published a very kind article comparing the original AB-1266 to the new Phi...

https://audiobacon.net/2017/04/10/abyss-ab-1266-phi-headphone-debut-impressions-and-how-it-compares-to-v1/


----------



## Thaudiophile

matthewhypolite said:


> Depends, if you're MP focused, you'll probably want something like the He1000 v1/v2, they are better for long sessions and not distracting and in your face like the abyss. They're great for short bursts or Sp games where you want the best audio. They do sound great, but can become fatiguing, so i dont usually reach for my abyss when time to game


 
 Which has bigger soundstage?I guess the new Abyss Phi will solve that fatiguing  problem


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The Abyss will not cover up for source or cabling issues, many times the descriptions given are really describing the sound of the system, not the headphone, which can be difficult to separate.

The AB-1266 is not aggressive, but it also does not contain damping materials that absorb high frequency energy in an uneven spectral fashion. So... If the system, recordings, or all of the above have areas that stand out, such as the sibilant range or a tilt up top due to cable or electronics, the headphone will not mask this. It is simply conveying sonic information provided, and is the reason why it can convey a large soundstage and the original recording space. It does not filter out the little things that allow your brain to recreate this.

Our take on this with a headphone at this level of resolution are to solve the problem at the root cause. In other words, optimize the system for the speakers/headphone by choosing high quality electronics and cables that are complimentary to your music.

BTW, if any Abyss owners would like specific information as to how to improve their system you can pm or email me with your system components and cables and I would be happy to point out things to consider.


----------



## matthewhypolite

thaudiophile said:


> Which has bigger soundstage?I guess the new Abyss Phi will solve that fatiguing  problem


 
  
 The Abyss soundstage cannot be beat by any headphones i've head. And yes, what i've heard about the phi, it should indeed solve that problem, if it does, the abyss will become Monstrous (which it already is, Monstrous squared  )


----------



## matthewhypolite

joe skubinski said:


> The Abyss will not cover up for source or cabling issues, many times the descriptions given are really describing the sound of the system, not the headphone, which can be difficult to separate.
> 
> The AB-1266 is not aggressive, but it also does not contain damping materials that absorb high frequency energy in an uneven spectral fashion. So... If the system, recordings, or all of the above have areas that stand out, such as the sibilant range or a tilt up top due to cable or electronics, the headphone will not mask this. It is simply conveying sonic information provided, and is the reason why it can convey a large soundstage and the original recording space. It does not filter out the little things that allow your brain to recreate this.
> 
> ...


 

 Exactly this. The HEK hides flaws in lesser recordings making them an easier listen depending on what you're listening too. (this includes gaming.)

 And joe, im currently working on improving my core, i'll PM you for some advice and what i was thinking. Thanks


----------



## matthewhypolite

joe skubinski said:


> Audio Bacon published a very kind article comparing the original AB-1266 to the new Phi...
> 
> https://audiobacon.net/2017/04/10/abyss-ab-1266-phi-headphone-debut-impressions-and-how-it-compares-to-v1/


 
  
 Hi Joe, i see this review commented on the improved efficiency of the abyss, by how much as the efficiency been improved?


----------



## jlbrach

matthewhypolite said:


> Hi Joe, i see this review commented on the improved efficiency of the abyss, by how much as the efficiency been improved?


 
 I am glad to hear that the new version will be more efficient....the one place where the Utopia stands out is its efficiency...


----------



## Beolab

joe skubinski said:


> The Abyss will not cover up for source or cabling issues, many times the descriptions given are really describing the sound of the system, not the headphone, which can be difficult to separate.
> 
> The AB-1266 is not aggressive, but it also does not contain damping materials that absorb high frequency energy in an uneven spectral fashion. So... If the system, recordings, or all of the above have areas that stand out, such as the sibilant range or a tilt up top due to cable or electronics, the headphone will not mask this. It is simply conveying sonic information provided, and is the reason why it can convey a large soundstage and the original recording space. It does not filter out the little things that allow your brain to recreate this.
> 
> ...




Joe: 

Can you share / explain to us interested people on how *you* can know the exact raw Abyss driver sounds / know the characteristics without any affect from amp / dac / cables etc,.. Is it based on pure measurements or?


----------



## mulder01

matthewhypolite said:


> Hi Joe, i see this review commented on the improved efficiency of the abyss, by how much as the efficiency been improved?


 
  
 Joe mentioned a few pages ago:
  
 Quote:


joe skubinski said:


> Website has been updated with the new specs, http://abyss-headphones.com/abyss_ab_1266.html
> 
> Sensitivity increased a few dB, impedance came down 10% to 42 ohms. They are a bit easier to drive, you will find yourself playing them at a lower volume that the original.


----------



## mulder01

beolab said:


> Joe:
> 
> Can you share / explain to us interested people on how *you* can know the exact raw Abyss driver sounds / know the characteristics without any affect from amp / dac / cables etc,.. Is it based on pure measurements or?


 
  
 I suppose the drivers are meant to impart no additional sound at all to the signal coming into them, so you would assume that the more transparent the driver, the more different it sounds when hooked up to different gear...?


----------



## Thaudiophile

What would be a better pair for the abyss?Schiit ragnarok or Headamp gsx mk 2? i am pairing them with holo audio spring level 3 kitsune edition.


----------



## wink

As much as I like the Ragnarok, give me the GSX Mk.II.....


----------



## mulder01

thaudiophile said:


> What would be a better pair for the abyss?Schiit ragnarok or Headamp gsx mk 2? i am pairing them with holo audio spring level 3 kitsune edition.


 
  
 Are you listening to music with these headphones?  I feel like it would almost be a waste to buy such a highly tuned piece of equipment just to game.  If you game all the time for hours on end and move your head around a lot, it may not be the best choice. The fit is a bit loose and they are quite heavy


----------



## Thaudiophile

mulder01 said:


> Are you listening to music with these headphones?  I feel like it would almost be a waste to buy such a highly tuned piece of equipment just to game.  If you game all the time for hours on end and move your head around a lot, it may not be the best choice. The fit is a bit loose and they are quite heavy


 
 Nope, gaming and watching movies is just secondary.My main priority is music listening. As Speakers are better for gaming anyway.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

thaudiophile said:


> What would be a better pair for the abyss?Schiit ragnarok or Headamp gsx mk 2? i am pairing them with holo audio spring level 3 kitsune edition.


 
  
 Exclusively for the Abyss?  Is neither an option?
  
 A 430 or LAu are both better options for the Abyss.


----------



## Thaudiophile

bigfatpaulie said:


> Exclusively for the Abyss?  Is neither an option?
> 
> A 430 or LAu are both better options for the Abyss.



 


Full name of 430 or Lau?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

thaudiophile said:


> bigfatpaulie said:
> 
> 
> > Exclusively for the Abyss?  Is neither an option?
> ...


 
  
 Moon 430HA and Cavalli Liquid Gold.


----------



## Thaudiophile

bigfatpaulie said:


> Moon 430HA and Cavalli Liquid Gold.


 
 Liquid gold costs 1000$ more than gsx mk ii.I am willing to spend this much money but why do you say it is better than Gsx mk2 for the abyss/phi?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

thaudiophile said:


> Liquid gold costs 1000$ more than gsx mk ii.I am willing to spend this much money but why do you say it is better than Gsx mk2 for the abyss/phi?


 
  
 And the GSX is $1300 more than the Rag...  I'm sorry but I don't know your budget.  The LAu is only available used now so it is closer to your budget with the GSK and the 430 is less still.
  
 I know it's not the popular opinion on the GSK but I just don't *personally *care for it.  I find it flat and uninvolving.  People will say that it is my sources fault (Bricasti M1/Yggy/DAVE).  To each their own.  The GSX, compared to the other two amps I mentioned, and even vs the Rag, lacks presence and grunt.  It is an amp that doesn't the raw grunt of the others.  It is a very fast clean sounding amp and it being 'light on its feet' is a love or hate thing.  I guess the best way to describe what I am trying to say is I personally feel the Abyss sounds best when it has that 'big iron' sound behind it.  And the GSX MK2, of all these amps, has the least of that quality to me. 
  
 Again, YMMV, that's me.  I have not owned the Rag, LAu or 430 but I have had all three at home for a month or more with the Abyss.
  
 The LAu was designed with the Abyss specifically in mind.  Joe was involved in the development of the amp.  It's an amp that was really made to go hand in hand with the Abyss, so there is a lot synergy there.  I still feel a big speaker amp is the very best choice, but the LAu is, admittedly, a very very good option.


----------



## Thaudiophile

bigfatpaulie said:


> And the GSX is $1300 more than the Rag...  I'm sorry but I don't know your budget.  The LAu is only available used now so it is closer to your budget with the GSK and the 430 is less still.
> 
> I know it's not the popular opinion on the GSK but I just don't *personally *care for it.  I find it flat and uninvolving.  People will say that it is my sources fault (Bricasti M1/Yggy/DAVE).  To each their own.  The GSX, compared to the other two amps I mentioned, and even vs the Rag, lacks presence and grunt.  It is an amp that doesn't the raw grunt of the others.  It is a very fast clean sounding amp and it being 'light on its feet' is a love or hate thing.  I guess the best way to describe what I am trying to say is I personally feel the Abyss sounds best when it has that 'big iron' sound behind it.  And the GSX MK2, of all these amps, has the least of that quality to me.
> 
> ...


 
 Guess i will have to spend money on Moon 430Ha or liquid gold.Anyways thanks for the input.It really means a lot.


----------



## draytonklammer

The 430HA is a monster with the Abyss. Love it.


----------



## Thaudiophile

>


 


draytonklammer said:


> The 430HA is a monster with the Abyss. Love it.


 
 How is the detail retrieval on that amp?There was a review on headfi that critised its detail retrieval and speed


----------



## deuter

thaudiophile said:


> How is the detail retrieval on that amp?There was a review on headfi that critised its detail retrieval and speed




It's not the best, I little veiled but smooth sounding with a beautiful attenuator.


----------



## Thaudiophile

deuter said:


> It's not the best, I little veiled but smooth sounding with a beautiful attenuator.


 
 Then i will buy Lau instead.Hoping to find some Abyss 1266 phi user reviews and comparisons soon


----------



## Yoga

Check out the Vio 281 also. I was very surprised how good it is with the Abyss. Better than the 430HAD - more detail, tighter bass and bigger soundstage.


----------



## Toolman

thaudiophile said:


> deuter said:
> 
> 
> > It's not the best, I little veiled but smooth sounding with a beautiful attenuator.
> ...


 

 As an Abyss and LAu owner, I can assured you that this combo is heavenly...not sure if it helps buy yes I absolutely love it. 
  
p.s I have heard my Abyss with GSX II (and a few other amps but not Moon 430) and I am still very happy with my current Abyss+LAu set up


----------



## matthewhypolite

toolman said:


> As an Abyss and LAu owner, I can assured you that this combo is heavenly...not sure if it helps buy yes I absolutely love it.
> 
> p.s I have heard my Abyss with GSX II (and a few other amps but not Moon 430) and I am still very happy with my current Abyss+LAu set up


 
  
 Also a happy Abyss/LAu user.

 P.s. Toolman, i think we have alot of the same gear lol.


----------



## Toolman

matthewhypolite said:


> toolman said:
> 
> 
> > As an Abyss and LAu owner, I can assured you that this combo is heavenly...not sure if it helps buy yes I absolutely love it.
> ...


 

 ...and almost 17,500km apart LoL


----------



## Thaudiophile

I hope that lau would pair great with the new Abyss 1266 phi too


----------



## bigfatpaulie

toolman said:


> ...and almost 17,500km apart LoL


 
  
 Hmm...  Possible location of Toolman...
  

  
 The search beings


----------



## draytonklammer

deuter said:


> It's not the best, I little veiled but smooth sounding with a beautiful attenuator.




Lol wut. 
It's a reference amplifier man, it's made for detail retrieval.


----------



## Toolman

bigfatpaulie said:


> toolman said:
> 
> 
> > ...and almost 17,500km apart LoL
> ...


 
  
 Spare you the trouble Columbus...


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Well, that Google circle tool is clearly not working correctly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  haha


----------



## matthewhypolite

toolman said:


> Spare you the trouble Columbus...


 
  
 To be clear, Cayman is smaller than the red dot used in that image. 
  
 Population : 58,435


----------



## deuter

draytonklammer said:


> Lol wut.
> It's a reference amplifier man, it's made for detail retrieval.




Sure if that is your level of detail retrieval.As ling as you enjoy it.


----------



## mulder01

thaudiophile said:


> Then i will buy Lau instead.Hoping to find some Abyss 1266 phi user reviews and comparisons soon


 

 People have been talking about the Liquid Gold with the Abyss for years and pretty much throughout the whole thread - I doubt you'll find much new getting posted, especially since the Liquid Gold is out of production.  You could go back and read the thread, but I think the main reason the hype train started rolling on this combo was Jude's video review from a while back:


----------



## Hansotek

thaudiophile said:


> I hope that lau would pair great with the new Abyss 1266 phi too




After hearing the Phi last weekend, it will be even better with the LAu, I am quite sure. 

IMO, if you're going for the lower priced option, the Wells Milo is vastly superior to the Rag, GSX and V281. Order w/ stock resistors and Tocos volume pot for a more dry/neutral sound or get the Khozimo Attenuator and Vishay resistors if you want a more "tubey" sound (now I finally understand why some people have been calling it tubey... the upgrade package definitely has a different sound to it).

That being said, you can get a Liquid Gold for under $3K on the sale forum these days, if you've got the cash, treat yourself!!!


----------



## Xecuter

I would ditch SS and get a decent tube amp if you are serious about upgrading your chain for the new abyss. I may be a tad biased 
 No SS has come close to the studio for detail.


----------



## Toolman

xecuter said:


> I would ditch SS and get a decent tube amp if you are serious about upgrading your chain for the new abyss. I may be a tad biased
> No SS has come close to the studio for detail.




Hunting for a Studio myself...no reason you can't have both LoL


----------



## jelt2359

toolman said:


> Hunting for a Studio myself...no reason you can't have both LoL


 
 Had no idea you were hunting for one! Join the club bro!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

xecuter said:


> I would ditch SS and get a decent tube amp if you are serious about upgrading your chain for the new abyss. I may be a tad biased
> No SS has come close to the studio for detail.


 
  
  


toolman said:


> Hunting for a Studio myself...no reason you can't have both LoL


 
  
  
 Finding a Studio isn't so bad, it's the darn AVVT's that are a problem!


----------



## Xecuter

bigfatpaulie said:


> Finding a Studio isn't so bad, it's the darn AVVT's that are a problem!


 
  
 It's nearly as if some lunatic recently bought all the stock floating around


----------



## mulder01

Original version Abyss at A2A is down to $3488 AUD 
*AUD AUD AUD Australian Dollarydoos*


----------



## deuter

mulder01 said:


> Original version Abyss at A2A is down to $3488 AUD
> *AUD AUD AUD Australian Dollarydoos*




That is high, it is probably worth $2500 compared to rest.


----------



## mulder01

deuter said:


> That is high, it is probably worth $2500 compared to rest.


 
  
 Well the retail is $7k so HALF PRICE for a new phone is probably as good as a deal as I have ever seen.  (That is $2640 USD btw).  Not sure what deals you are getting from your retailers or what "favours" you have to do to get them if you consider LESS THAN HALF RRP to be a "high" price.


----------



## deuter

mulder01 said:


> Well the retail is $7k so HALF PRICE for a new phone is probably as good as a deal as I have ever seen.  (That is $2640 USD btw).  Not sure what deals you are getting from your retailers or what "favours" you have to do to get them if you consider LESS THAN HALF RRP to be a "high" price.
> [/


----------



## Toolman

mulder01 said:


> Original version Abyss at A2A is down to $3488 AUD
> *AUD AUD AUD Australian Dollarydoos*



Dang no kidding?  imagine how much one should priced his used Classic Abyss in the used market now?


----------



## Tobes

mulder01 said:


> Original version Abyss at A2A is down to $3488 AUD
> *AUD AUD AUD Australian Dollarydoos*


 
  
 Hmm - selling for the same AUD$ price as the HE-1000v2 at the moment.
 I find this price fairly tempting - one could get the updated Phi drivers down the track and still come out ahead on new Phi price.
 Don't think they'll be available for long.


----------



## Toolman

tobes said:


> mulder01 said:
> 
> 
> > Original version Abyss at A2A is down to $3488 AUD
> ...




But that price is for their *store demo unit*, not brand new stock


----------



## Tobes

toolman said:


> But that price is for their *store demo unit*, not brand new stock


 

 True, but if the plan was to eventually get the Phi drivers then the most important bit would be 'new' again.
 Guess you'd probably want to check it out for scratches and pad wear etc.


----------



## Stereolab42

For me, store demo units fall in the same category as rental cars... things I would never ever want to own because they get abused to hell and back.


----------



## mulder01

To each his own, just thought it would be a good opportunity for someone short on funds to get an abyss.  Keep it for a year/whatever then upgrade to phi when you can afford it.  Pay a bit now, a bit later, get to enjoy it the whole time, get to try both models.
  
 Anyway, I sound like I work for a2a now so I'll stop.
  
 Quote:


toolman said:


> Dang no kidding?  imagine how much one should priced his used Classic Abyss in the used market now?


 
  
 Assuming someone would want to sell an abyss...


----------



## Jerseyboy

Current waiting time for an upgrade to the Phi version - 14 weeks and rising !
  
 This may encourage a few people to sell their existing Abyss-1266 and purchase a new Phi version to avoid the wait time !!


----------



## mulder01

Where'd you get that info?


----------



## Toolman

I think if you check with JPS Labs regarding the upgrades, that will be the approx time frame you'll need to wait to have yours upgraded


----------



## mulder01

Must be good huh


----------



## jlbrach

jerseyboy said:


> Current waiting time for an upgrade to the Phi version - 14 weeks and rising !
> 
> This may encourage a few people to sell their existing Abyss-1266 and purchase a new Phi version to avoid the wait time !!


 
 I find that inconceivable


----------



## matthewhypolite

Anyone heard the Phi with Tungsten?
  
 And yes i was told 14weeks before upgrade also.


----------



## jlbrach

14 weeks from the time it is sent in to the time you get it back?....that is 3 1/2 months lol...there could be a new model before you get it back!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jlbrach said:


> 14 weeks from the time it is sent in to the time you get it back?....that is 3 1/2 months lol...there could be a new model before you get it back!


 
  
 Now now, this is Abyss, not Hifiman we are talking about here.


----------



## matthewhypolite

jlbrach said:


> 14 weeks from the time it is sent in to the time you get it back?....that is 3 1/2 months lol...there could be a new model before you get it back!


 
  
 no, i think 14 weeks from today before the upgrade program is ready, so i'll just send it then, for what im hoping is a 1-2week turn around lol. Any longer would be crazy to live without abyss.


----------



## mulder01

Ah yep so you're not expected to send your headphones away for 14 weeks - it's just a 14 week wait till you can send them.


----------



## Thaudiophile

After reading all the posts in this thread i still haven't figured out the right amp for me yet. I want an amp that has excellent amount of details large soundstage and excellent dynamics.


----------



## stvc

thaudiophile said:


> After reading all the posts in this thread i still haven't figured out the right amp for me yet. I want an amp that has excellent amount of details large soundstage and excellent dynamics.




Set your Budget, try all of amp that within your Budget the price range, make decision base on your own taste, that it. What i want to say trust your own ear, rather than reading the word on forum, they will never accurate.


----------



## Thaudiophile

stvc said:


> Set your Budget, try all of amp that within your Budget the price range, make decision base on your own taste, that it. What i want to say trust your own ear, rather than reading the word on forum, they will never accurate.


 
 I will probably buy wa5 or Headtrip i guess.My budget is around 4000$.


----------



## mulder01

thaudiophile said:


> After reading all the posts in this thread i still haven't figured out the right amp for me yet. I want an amp that has excellent amount of details large soundstage and excellent dynamics.


 
  
 You read the whole thing?  Wow.  Well as you would have worked out by now, it's personal preference - not one amp suits everybody in every situation and the only way to know which is right for you is to audition.  Head trip is a lot more than $4k by the way, so it looks like the WA5 for you.  Mind you, you can spend $$$$ upgrading tubes etc which you will most likely do over time out of curiosity/the pursuit of a better sound.


----------



## Beolab

As we all have concluded by now, it is a hard task to find the perfect amp, but it sounds like you favour a more transparent tube amp from your description. 

One brand you could try out as an alternative to Woo WA5 is the Eddie Current line up of headphone Tube amps. 

The Eddie Current Studio is the reference statment, but they got a little more modest priced amps also. The look is not the greatest maybe in relation to Woo, but sounds great from the few i have had the chance to listen to. 

Another more versatile hybrid is the 
Ifi iCan Pro Tube amp, that i have listened to with Focal Utopia, and i like it alot (but not the headphones so much  . It got great drive and you got the benefit to customise the sound for you own taste. 

Good Luck in the search


----------



## stvc

thaudiophile said:


> I will probably buy wa5 or Headtrip i guess.My budget is around 4000$.




 You may want to take tube cost into your consideration, the upgrade tube will cost more than the amp itself. It's a hard decision,


----------



## Thaudiophile

I am finding some good used fully upgraded Wa5le and headtrip for around 3-4k


----------



## cladane

Hello,
 Hello @Thaudiophile,
  
 I read that as a transistor, the MOON 430 HA is a good choice, very transparent.
 Another one: the Luxman p700u, warmer.
  
 ​You could also look at a nice tube amp able to drive the Abyss if you feed it with at least 3V: the AURIS HA-2.


----------



## Joe Skubinski




----------



## isquirrel

stereolab42 said:


> For me, store demo units fall in the same category as rental cars... things I would never ever want to own because they get abused to hell and back.


 

 Agreed, I know the Abyss they are selling, it has been around since the dawn of time and done every show etc. I do have an Abyss in as new condition and still boxed if anyone is interested as I will be getting a new Phi. 
  
 PM me if anyone is interested, its in perfect condition and not even burned in.


----------



## isquirrel

I will be doing the first exclusive review of the new Woo WA33 Elite edition straight after Munich. There are two versions, the standard for $8K and the Elite for approx $16K. I will have something else to compare it to from the same manufacturer. Plenty of interesting stuff to write about for you guys.


----------



## Revogamer

isquirrel said:


> Agreed, I know the Abyss they are selling, it has been around since the dawn of time and done every show etc. I do have an Abyss in as new condition and still boxed if anyone is interested as I will be getting a new Phi.
> 
> PM me if anyone is interested, its in perfect condition and not even burned in.




It would be nice if you knew before you mentioned that! It's not the case at all that demo was sold a while back and was a full edition not lite.

The one we are selling now is almost brand new really!


----------



## isquirrel

revogamer said:


> It would be nice if you knew before you mentioned that! It's not the case at all that demo was sold a while back and was a full edition not lite.
> 
> The one we are selling now is almost brand new really!


 

  Oops, your from Addicted to Audio? Then yes it would have been nice to have known that. My apologies.


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Apr 30, 2017)

We're going to have some very cool toys a few weeks from now in Munich...

http://abyss-headphones.com/abyss_shows.html


----------



## Beolab (May 2, 2017)

Received the new Abyss Phi today!

Post the first impressions / pics soon.


----------



## onsionsi

I'm looking forward to see your impression also your opinion for original one vs Phi will be appreciated


----------



## mulder01

What happened to the 14 week wait?


----------



## jlbrach

when can those of us who indicated interest in sending our abyss in to be upgraded expect to hear about a date to do so and how to go about doing it?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Beolab was the first to respond so he got first dibs on a set of drivers. We're only upgrading so many per week to keep it sane at our end. Timing is by date of request, first in-first out basis. If you were quoted 18 weeks, it's an 18 week backlog...


----------



## mulder01

I was going to wait till I head one first... What a mistake


----------



## Kiats

Haha! I'm just sitting tight and waiting for Joe to give me a holler when my turn is up.


----------



## Beolab (May 7, 2017)

Why i haven't comment on the sound on the Phi is because of i have set them on burn in, and they do progress every day.


I have in the same time began testing the Phi's against 5 different High End Amps / Dac combos, and a few pure DAC's, combined with the best High End cables.


The result are slight different, but positive.


Will be continued, when i find time for the whole writeup..


In the mean time i will give you a few songs that was made for Abyss as usual:

Stella ( Andreas Vollenweider )
https://tidal.com/track/4944309

The Notting Hillbillies: Your Own Sweet Way https://tidal.com/track/1110948

Andreas Vollenweider: Dance of the Masks https://tidal.com/track/5613015

Andreas Vollenweider: Steam Forest https://tidal.com/track/10961028


Bugge Wesseltoft, Henrik Schwarz, Dan Berglund: Movement Eleven https://tidal.com/track/33691399

Bugge Wesseltoft, Henrik Schwarz: Leave My Head Alone Brain https://tidal.com/track/37278006

TIDAL - Kill J: Phoenix https://tidal.com/track/23683999

TIDAL - Kill J: Mama Taught Me Well https://tidal.com/track/58050042

TIDAL - Knut Reiersrud, Iver Kleive: Jesus, Det Eneste, Helligste, Reneste https://tidal.com/track/415420


----------



## FiftyKilo

Hi, 
just some informations about my new PHI Drivers. 

First  for the headphone friends in the "Good Old World" which are perhaps afraid to buy a Headphone from a Company far away from Europe and thinking what will be happening when there is a repair or change to a newer technologie. 
NO Poblem with Joe's Company, I did send my old Abyss on the 13. April to him via Airfright and the Headphone with his new PHI Drivers had been back on my door on 20.April. These are 7 day's and in this time there was also the Eastern weekend and the German Custom Office !   Unbelievable FAST work !! 

Now the new drivers are well burned in ( via my Egoista 845 ) and I'am absolut stunned what they are deliver. 

Some of you did know me, that I mainly hear big Pipe Organ Music ( Theatre Pipe Organ ), there are so much more informations in the middle of the Tone Frequencies and in the Trebel sections with the new drivers.

I did hear the very thin and fine ringeling of a Glockenspiel in a large Theatre as I never did before with the old drivers. 
With this new informations in the middle and trebel sections, I also think, that this is the reason for the much better room acoustic now. Deep and Wide of the Stage is with the Phi Driver absolut authentic like realy good big loudspeakers. 

The Bass sections is more acurate and had more contours, so there is a better cleanes in the Bass tones. 

The new Drivers still need a potentional HeadAmp. I have my most fun with them, when the Volume knob of my Egoista is around twelve a' Clock or more. 

My big thanks to Joe for this wonderfull new drivers and the Joy they will bring me !!      

Ralf


----------



## TWerk (May 10, 2017)

I think abyss would be my end game headphone. Probably version 1 since it's cheaper. I'm a bass guy, listen to lots of electronic and bassy genres of music and enjoy the cans I own a lot right now.

Problem is the price. It's just too far beyond my means unless I sell everything I've got for one abyss, which I'm not doing, since yeah I love the stuff I have.

Anyone can make any recommendation for the type of sound signature abyss gives you for cheaper? Even if it just gives me like 60% of an abyss?

I find my HE-400 gives me a crisp energetic treble, pretty hard hitting bass, vast soundstage, imaging etc hooked to a powerful amp. It gives me a "wow" affect with lots of the EDM music I like. I would think you'd probably need a planar... any suggestions for something closest to the abyss but cheaper? I understand there's nothing that will be the equivalent but is anything even in the ballpark?

It seems to me the only comparable type of thing for mind blowing bass with some research would maybe be an HE-6. But then you need a speaker amp... ugh. I'll probably just have to stick with my mid-level gear till (if) I ever have the means to buy an abyss. First world problems...


----------



## TWerk

Actually think i answered my own question. Innerfidelity measurements of HE400 and abyss frequency response look quite similar. It's probably the HE-400 or HE-6 would be as close as you get for cheaper.


----------



## mulder01

FWIW I was going to buy an LCD-X before I heard the Abyss... The Abyss Diana is coming out pretty soon which I imagine should have a similar signature for less money, though still quite expensive.


----------



## TWerk

Lol, apparently it's a 3K MSRP on the Diana. At that point, you can find a used abyss for less.


----------



## mulder01

So it's settled then.  Used Abyss


----------



## Joe Skubinski (May 13, 2017)

We have a new toy... XI AUDIO (Eleven Audio) model Formula S headphone amplifier. We helped fine tune this bad boy for headphones such as our Abyss Phi. IMO, sound quality is top shelf. US domestic price $3500, availability in a few months from your Abyss dealer.


----------



## TWerk

mulder01 said:


> So it's settled then.  Used Abyss



Actually, it's settled as no Abyss for me.


----------



## Hansotek

TWerk said:


> Actually, it's settled as no Abyss for me.



Famous last words.


----------



## Beolab (May 15, 2017)

After about 2 weeks burn-in and extensive listening i can give you a first impression at least.


I have felt they needed like 150++ hours burn-in to let loose the fast transients , air , deep soundstage and the famous visceral sound (dynamic low bass breath effect) that has become the signature stamp for the Abyss during the years.

It sounds as it looks and i become to love the design and built quality.


I will keep this pretty short because i don't feel i need to wright two essays about this upgrade simply explained because the original signature sound is well kept as many of you was afraid of to be different , but with more balance , control and transparency ( true to the source and amp) . You can play louder without any indication of stress or distortion at all for one. The soundstage are more in control and not as free as before, good or bad, it is a slight difference, and in a sound technical point of view that is better.







I have tested the Phi's with a few different High End amps and DAC's and cables that i own or sell in our shop or borrowed from fellow colleagues in other HiFi stores.






I will not go any deeper in to the equipment i have been using because i feel we are then miss out the subject and purpose of this short impression of the new Phi upgrade, but i assure everyone that i have listen through many different Amps and DAC combos with different cables, so i eventually could by almost 100% distinguish the new qualities of  the Phi's.








The new Phi's got a slight roll-off @

~30hz and downwards in energy (F-response vs the original ( without any EQ compensation) , so the ultra low's are more in control and more balanced, and gives a slightly less shivering rumble to your chic bones than the old one did, and because of this there is less disturbance in higher registers in exchange ( =higher clarity) .





Overall i find the frequency curve very similar to the old version, and it got a slight-slight recessed mid in comparison to other headphones like Focal Utopia on the same setup and vol. db level , but becomes more in balance on mid-higher volume. The Abyss "kills" the "boring" Focal Utopia on mostly all other parameters that i value high in my book.


The overall tone character is a slight more neutral and slightly dryer vs the original is slighty warmer.


When it comes to sensitivity i feel the Phi's is almost on par with the old one, it is slight more sensitive, but need current drive and power just as before to really breath from my testing.


  And as before they are scale-able when it comes to the equipment. A slightly to neutral DAC ore a too neutral thin Amp or cables does not take out the fine qualities of the new Phi's.




The tests have been made by using the org. Stock JPS Labs Abyss headphone cables 85% of the time spent. ( Superconductor and DHC Prion 4s have also been in to the game, but more as a differentiator in the cake, or fine tuning from time to time.










I thought that a great design as the org AB-1266 Abyss was, that it seemed to be hard to refine, but Joe S and Jason S @  JPS Labs  have made it again!

The old Abyss is more like an untamed beast that rumble and got a big heart, whereas the new Phi's is more tamed and behaved, but with the maintained rumble beast inside!









I can wright more about this topic, but my final conclusion is that the Phi is a real refined upgraded Abyss Mk II version!


( Just random pictures )


----------



## Beolab

Nice short test 

https://www.google.se/amp/s/parttimeaudiophile.com/2017/05/02/drs-orders-push-it-to-the-limit/amp/


----------



## Thaudiophile

Has anyone compared Abyss phi to upcoming Mrspeakers ether Electrostatic headphone?


----------



## ithilienrp

Just found a solution to the JPS Abyss's headband loosen elastic problem. The elastic on my pair had became so loose that my head touches the frame all the time, and the earpods are using my ears to hang itself, creating a slight pressure on the top of my ears that accumulate over time. 

The headband design was obviously flaw that users can't easily service the elastic themselves. A simple change to the headband design using a something that could flap open to change the elastic rubber, magnetic or even old-fashioned like velcro, would easily fix the problem.

Just found a very unlikely solution but it works beautifully.

Solution: Put ZMF Pilot pad on the top metal frame of the headphones. So, the headband can't move up that much and hence similar to having a new elastic.

It looks a bit uglier though (well, JPS Abyss never looked nice to begin with). But it became so much comfortable again.


----------



## cladane

Hello,

I agree with the comments here.
The Phi is a very good upgrade for Classical listeners since the upper bandwidth is extended and the trebles have lost some sharpness, are softer.
Very nice for violin tracks :
http://www.qobuz.com/fr-fr/album/re...hilippe-jordan-myung-whun-chung/0825646026838

With the Superconductor cable the sound is really improved in the low register where bass are always deep but more controlled.


----------



## ufospls2 (May 26, 2017)

Hey Guys,

Well, after selling my regular AB-1266’s, I decided, after LOTS of thinking (and I mean lots over months,) to go for the new AB-1266 Phi instead of purchasing the Focal Utopia. I had to be honest with myself in that I love the Abyss sound signature, and would miss the soundstage and bass.

Please note that these are VERY early impressions. The sort that hit you right away, rather than the small subtle differences that you notice over time.





Amps used in testing: Wells Audio Headtrip, iFi Micro iCAN SE, iFi Micro iDSD Black Label

DAC’s used in testing: iFi Micro iDSD Black Label, LH Labs GO2A. I don’t have a desktop DAC right now.





The Phi’s, I’m happy to report, are still an Abyss! They retain everything I liked about the originals, so I’m not disappointed. The soundstage is huge, the bass is big, the mids are better, and the treble is less harsh. They are dynamic, impactful, and percussive, even more so than the originals.

I won’t go into comfort, build quality etc. as they are the same as the originals. Well built to say the least. Strong.

These sound awesome. They improve and add things to the original sound signature that I didn’t know were missing or could be improved on. There is way more detail, especially in the treble.

Bass: Percussive and impactful. Large. Is there more quantity than the originals? So far, I don’t think so. With that being said, I think it extends deeper. The bass is one of my favourite parts of the AB-1266 Phi, there isn’t too much of it (I like bass though) and it isn’t lacking. Its just this enveloping force that punches your ears with great impact. It is bass done right, in my opinion.

Mids: The mids are improved over the originals, there is no question. The Phi’s are not a warm headphone, but they are not a cold headphone either. They straddle the mid point between say….and Audeze and the HD800. The mids are not lush and overbearing. They are a bit more present I think than with the original AB-1266.

Treble: Sometimes the treble on the original AB-1266 could be a bit harsh, not often, but enough that I noticed it sometimes. Some have said the Phi’s treble is rolled off compared to the originals, but I’m not hearing it that way so far. It seems clearer, and perhaps extends more into the stratosphere.

Soundstage: The Phi’s retain the phenomenal soundstage of the originals, which is to say it is still large. It doesn’t sound closed in or congested, there is an airy quality to it.

Imaging: Imaging is improved over the original. Real pin point precision.

Detail: Wow! I’m hearing things I’ve never heard before, even with the original AB-1266. The Phi’s are so detailed. If you want to do critical listening to tracks, you could do a helluva lot worse than the Phi’s. I think these are the most detailed headphones that I have ever heard, and are more detailed than some of the expensive speaker set up’s I have heard. Truly impressive.

CONS OF THE NEW PHI: To my ears, vs the originals, there really aren’t any cons. They just improve on everything I liked about the original AB-1266’s, and add some new stuff I didn’t know could be added. They will expose the hell out of flaws in your system. 128kbps MP3’s need not apply. I can’t wait to upgrade my DAC now, as I know there is even more detail to be had. Feed these greatness and I think you will be astonished at what you hear, feed them less than greatness, and you will hear the flaws with your source. 128kbps MP3’s sound muddy and lack clarity.

All in all, so far, the AB-1266 Phi are a helluva an improvement over the original AB-1266. They are the original AB-1266, but better, in my opinion. More detail, less harsh treble, similar percussive, hard hitting bass, a bit more presence in the mids, an expansive soundstage, and did I mention detail? Oh yeah, tons of detail…..To say I am impressed is an understatement. If you like the original AB-1266, I reckon you will like the Phi's. If you didn't like the original AB-1266, I reckon you wont like the Phi's. 








and last but not least, a great song for the new AB-1266 Phi's!


----------



## deuter

DAC is where the resolution is at, cannot believe you stayed this long without a proper standalone DAC.


----------



## deuter (May 27, 2017)

Surely no one listens or has mp3s to play through such refined equipment.
It's like modding the Abyss to use as Bluetooth Headphones.


----------



## ufospls2

deuter said:


> DAC is where the resolution is at, cannot believe you stayed this long without a proper standalone DAC.



The Mojo, iFi Micro iDSD BL, and LH Labs GO2A are all pretty capable transportable DAC's. I've sorted my headphones and amp out, DAC is up next on the purchase list. Its a long journey, not a race to the best system you can manage.




deuter said:


> Surely no one listens or has mp3s to play through such refined equipment.
> It's like modding the Abyss to use as Bluetooth Headphones.



I like to test all the source files I can to see how they sound when I'm testing a headphone. From youtube audio, to spotify, to FLAC's and other lossless formats etc...


----------



## jlbrach

deuter said:


> Surely no one listens or has mp3s to play through such refined equipment.
> It's like modding the Abyss to use as Bluetooth Headphones.



I am always amused when i read about people who spend 10s of thousands of dollars on equipment and then listen to MP3


----------



## Joe Skubinski (May 27, 2017)

CD's aren't much better 

The Phi will invariably flush out limitations of the source so it's not surprising upgrading DAC and music rez would be a most logical next step.

@ufospls2 - Spot on comparison of original and Phi, and from memory to boot.


----------



## bigfatpaulie (May 28, 2017)

Thanks for the great review @ufospls2 !  I know this has been a long and arduous path so I'm thrilled that you've finally found where you wanted to go!

I also would never put someone down because they don't have a top cost DAC.  Until you get to this level, in my experience, the DAC is the least critical piece of gear so I applaud him for being pragmatic and waiting until the rest was right before starting the hardest hunt of them all.

On a personal aside, I often listen to poorly recorded MP3's: sometime that's all I can get and this hobby, to me, is more about the music than the gear...  But to each their own.

Congrats again @ufospls2 !!!


----------



## ufospls2

Joe Skubinski said:


> CD's aren't much better
> 
> The Phi will invariably flush out limitations of the source so it's not surprising upgrading DAC and music rez would be a most logical next step.
> 
> @ufospls2 - Spot on comparison of original and Phi, and from memory to boot.



Thanks for taking the time to read the mini review  



bigfatpaulie said:


> Thanks for the great review @ufospls2 !  I know this has been a long and arduous path so I'm thrilled that you've finally found where you wanted to go!
> 
> I also would never put someone down because they don't have a top cost DAC.  Until you get to this level, in my experience, the DAC is the least critical piece of gear so I applaud him for being pragmatic and waiting until the rest was right before starting the hardest hunt of them all.
> 
> ...



@bigfatpaulie Thank you for taking the time to read it. I agree 100% that it is more about the music than the gear. The gear is a fun aspect for sure, but the music is the most important part, and always has been. From my JVC discman and Phillips cassette player with 5 dollar ear buds, to the Abyss Phi, it has always been the music that makes me happiest. 

And you are right about the DAC hunt being hard!!! I'm happy to have my headphones and amp sorted, and will continue to enjoy the process of finding the right DAC for my ears. Just taking my time, and the right thing will come along at the right time


----------



## Beolab (May 30, 2017)

*Abyss / JPS Labs / Woo Audio*



























http://hifiknights.com/reviews/miscleanous/high-end-munich-2017/


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Jun 6, 2017)




----------



## MaggotBrain

I would agree about waiting for the right DAC. I should note that I just finally scratched the itch and got a Chord DAVE, having unloaded my electrostatic gear collecting dust because the Abyss corralled all of my attenton. Better someone else enjoy the Stax for what it is, but with all the rock/pop/hip-hop I listen to, it was kind of like putting caviar on a corn dog. With the Abyss, it doesn't matter if you're into Van Morrison or Van Halen - It paints everything like a Dutch master. 

I do want to give a little love the Master 9/Dave combo - not seen it mentioned before on this thread but it's the perfect marriage of precision and power. The first track I tested was Back in Black by AC/DC  - you could perfectly hear the punch of the drums, crunching guitars and the gravel in the vocals - suffice to say, it hits as hard as AC/DC which is saying a lot. I tested a lot of tracks on the Tidal master MQA from the Mac Pro and was really impressed by the revelation on detail I could hear in a lot of familiar artists: Eagles, Bowie, Led Zepplin are well represented as well as contemporary artists like Gorillaz, Black Keys and twenty one pilots. It's already included in the Tidal HiFi subscription, and now they have a bunch of playlists to cherry pick. 

Fifteen more weeks for the Phi upgrade - it's gonna be a long summer!


----------



## DMck2000

MaggotBrain said:


> I would agree about waiting for the right DAC. I should note that I just finally scratched the itch and got a Chord DAVE, having unloaded my electrostatic gear collecting dust because the Abyss corralled all of my attenton. Better someone else enjoy the Stax for what it is, but with all the rock/pop/hip-hop I listen to, it was kind of like putting caviar on a corn dog. With the Abyss, it doesn't matter if you're into Van Morrison or Van Halen - It paints everything like a Dutch master.
> 
> I do want to give a little love the Master 9/Dave combo - not seen it mentioned before on this thread but it's the perfect marriage of precision and power. The first track I tested was Back in Black by AC/DC  - you could perfectly hear the punch of the drums, crunching guitars and the gravel in the vocals - suffice to say, it hits as hard as AC/DC which is saying a lot. I tested a lot of tracks on the Tidal master MQA from the Mac Pro and was really impressed by the revelation on detail I could hear in a lot of familiar artists: Eagles, Bowie, Led Zepplin are well represented as well as contemporary artists like Gorillaz, Black Keys and twenty one pilots. It's already included in the Tidal HiFi subscription, and now they have a bunch of playlists to cherry pick.
> 
> Fifteen more weeks for the Phi upgrade - it's gonna be a long summer!


I would die just to hear Bowie with these just one time! Also would love to hear the bass from Gorillaz tracks on these! Would probably blow me away *literally


----------



## ufospls2 (Jun 9, 2017)

Hey Guys,

I finally decided on a DAC and took the plunge. I ended up getting a decent used deal on an Aqua Acoustic La Voce S2. So far, it sounds great! It has taken over a year of searching and testing various source gear to get to this point, but I'm super happy with where I am at. There are little tweaks here and there I would like to do still, but the main components are set, for now at least. The Phi's are definitely the main part of this set up, I'm still loving them.

Note: The abyss are on the stand for the photo, I normally don't store them like that to save the life of the elastics.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Tried mulder01's cable tie mod for the headband and it made a huge improvement in comfort. Getting the height just right improved the sound quality. I got ufospls2's old pair, and he said mine has new drivers on them, so hoping the sound improves further with some burn in. I'm curious how many users bent the frame to get it wide enough for a good fit. I have mine stretched widest and the pads still getting a tight seal.


----------



## ufospls2

BoyNamedSue said:


> Tried mulder01's cable tie mod for the headband and it made a huge improvement in comfort. Getting the height just right improved the sound quality. I got ufospls2's old pair, and he said mine has new drivers on them, so hoping the sound improves further with some burn in. I'm curious how many users bent the frame to get it wide enough for a good fit. I have mine stretched widest and the pads still getting a tight seal.


 
Hey Mate,

Good to see you on the Abyss thread. Lots of good info here, as I'm sure you have found out. If you have a tight seal with the widest setting, you might want to try a bit of bending out. The seal should be fairly loose, not squeezing your ears too hard, at least thats what I have found works for the best sound quality (to my ears.) Its also comfier for what it is worth  You can always bend it back to the way it was if you find it too loose, or if the sound quality isn't as good.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Thanks for the reply. Listening to them right now and my jaw is dropping how good they sound. I think I'm finally getting a good fit after a couple weeks of adjustments. To me, Mulder01's headband mod is a must for comfort and proper sound staging. Before the headband mod, the abyss would sink down, which seemed to collapse the height of the soundstage. With the height positioned just right, I am getting the largest sound stage I've ever heard on a headphone and imaging is really coherent and stable. I am also really impressed by the bass: deep, impactful, and sounds like the natural instrument. The Abyss are deceptively resolving (can easily tell DAC differences), although I wish they were a bit more transparent. Images seem a little blurry too.  

So far, I like them better on my Audio-GD Master 8 than the Woo Audio WA5. They sound really good with the Master 7.


----------



## mulder01

I had to widen my frame further than the normal widest setting too - the thing is, if you bend the vertical arms outward, you end up with a big gap at the bottom of the earpads because they form sort of like an upside down V shape, whereas I needed them V shaped still (bent inward), but wider apart overall.  I unscrewed the drivers and took the frame down into the shed for a bit of careful further bending which worked quite well for the width adjustment.  (Figured if I broke it I could just order a new one - Joe is pretty good in that regard).  Eventually I made my own headband but it looks a bit DIY and can't be adjusted for other people.

I was on holidays recently in Canada and did a bunch of those adventure sport type things and in every case I needed the biggest helmet they had and adjusted further as big as possible and they were never loose... So Sue, it's nice to know I'm not the only one.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

I'm definitely in the big head club . It's funny how they look so wide when sitting on headphone stand but still not wide enough. 

Yeah, I was running into same problem of the upside down V. I'm trying to get them 90 degrees so they hang parallel to my ears. I'm inching closer to ideal fit with each bend. They sound so good right now so may leave it alone for now. The abyss behaves likes speakers more than any other headphones, the positioning and "sweet spot" seem to make a big difference. Its cool that there is even a pivot to adjust the toe in.


----------



## Thaudiophile

How does abyss 1266 phi compare to hifiman susvara?


----------



## Beolab

I think most of us are waiting for the Phi upgrade, and can not comment on that question right now. 

I have personally listen to HE 1K V2 and the Phi is clearly the better one overall, then it is always down to tastes, but i have not find a better sounding headphone than Abyss / Phi with its great depth and imaging and transparency, it relay moves you like a Ultra High End speaker whereas the V2 got a great soundstage because of the huge driver, and do things pretty well, but not as well as the Phi is my conclution.


----------



## Thaudiophile

Beolab said:


> I think most of us are waiting for the Phi upgrade, and can not comment on that question right now.
> 
> I have personally listen to HE 1K V2 and the Phi is clearly the better one overall, then it is always down to tastes, but i have not find a better sounding headphone than Abyss / Phi with its great depth and imaging and transparency, it relay moves you like a Ultra High End speaker whereas the V2 got a great soundstage because of the huge driver, and do things pretty well, but not as well as the Phi is my conclution.


Now that woo audio wa33 is out, what do you think is the better amp Eddie current studio or wa33?Sorry I have asked this question on wa33 thread but I got no reply.


----------



## Beolab (Jun 30, 2017)

I have not heard wa33 sorry, i just linked the pictures and some comments from JPS Labs booth @ Munich High End event. 
  I got a colleague who got the Eddie Studio, and it got great drive and is very transparent, and not so much commonly tube warmth as usual, but could have a thad more weight overal and slight bigger sound stage, but other than that the sound is very airy, very similar to Pathos in its signature i think, but with much more drive and speed.


----------



## mulder01

I would be surprised if anyone owned a WA33 AND a Studio.  Maybe like, 2 people in the world...


----------



## urez (Jul 6, 2017)

Representing the alternative point of view on convenience of using 1266, now there are no more any "problems" of long listening(for me it was a lot in stock).
The headband is custom made of titan and aluminium parts with DLC finishing, the mechanism has to give illusion of a support through driver cent. The point of "change" of an axis is added.

PS: Hello Joe, hope you will not give me a ban on your's thread))


----------



## BoyNamedSue

That looks so badass. Much cooler than the dinky cable ties I'm using on mine. The headphone stands look really cool too.


----------



## mulder01

Yeah you went to a fair bit more effort than I did.  I don't see you copping a ban - people mod headphones all the time.  
I noticed this is very V shaped though - doesn't this give you some clamping pressure which Abyss is not meant to have?


----------



## jlbrach

that changes completely the whole idea behind the abyss...


----------



## urez

mulder01 said:


> Yeah you went to a fair bit more effort than I did.  I don't see you copping a ban - people mod headphones all the time.
> I noticed this is very V shaped though - doesn't this give you some clamping pressure which Abyss is not meant to have?


No, it's look like "V" in free hang because of i have adjusted the spring force, on the head of course there is a side pressure- it is a patented mechanism of the original manufacturer who made this custom for me.


----------



## urez

jlbrach said:


> that changes completely the whole idea behind the abyss...


If you mean an awful landing and headaches after an hour of listening in original headband, so - yes))


----------



## mulder01

urez said:


> No, it's look like "V" in free hang because of i have adjusted the spring force, on the head of course there is a side pressure- it is a patented mechanism of the original manufacturer who made this custom for me.



Yeah that's what I was saying - the design of the Abyss is the way it is because there is not meant to be any clamping pressure - the drivers sort of just 'hang' next to your ears, rather than press against your head.


----------



## urez

mulder01 said:


> Yeah that's what I was saying - the design of the Abyss is the way it is because there is not meant to be any clamping pressure - the drivers sort of just 'hang' next to your ears, rather than press against your head.


Exactly! Now it's another way of pure comfortable long time listening.


----------



## mulder01

hmm... I had some comfort issues with mine too (giant head), but try this:
Put your abyss on and play some music
Then grab the drivers and pull them out slightly so the pads are only very gently touching your head - take away all the clamping force.
See how it sounds different?  More open, wider soundstage.
If you have clamping force with abyss, you lose some of that magic they are known for.  IMO.
That's why when I made my headband, I made it in a fixed position so that the divers are just hanging there only barely touching (same principle as the stock headband) but with the headband moulded to my head to more evenly distribute the weight.  Downside of this is obviously it doesn't fit anybody except me.  Yours is adjustable for anyone, but it has clamping force.  Stock headband is the only one that is adjustable AND doesn't have any clamping force.  Though it's not able to be perfect for everyone (like you and I).  Maybe Abyss Phi v2 (I'm making this up) will have a more customisable headband...


----------



## Beolab

I got a pretty big head to, and for me the Abyss Phi sounds better when i have them on the widest setting and max toed out and the fitting on my head are like this  / 0 \ ,  and if i bend them out for a more loose fitment im loosing perception in focus and the low end intimacy, where you can play louder with better control. 
Yes the soundstage get slightly wider, but that is just about it, so for me a gentle pressure over and in the back of my ear ( i got it seeled  to about 50% around the ear)  and the rest is leaking slightly. The stitching on the ear cup is pointing straight forward at 3 o'clock. 
That is the best all around setting i have discovered that suites me the best, but yes it does pressure a little, but i can live with that.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Comfort issues here as well, i'm using the wire strap mod, dramatically increases the comfort for me, making it a non-issue.


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Jul 10, 2017)

We made the August cover... I'll post a link once the review is online


----------



## paulchiu

Yes!  A great review on the old and new Abyss.  Congrats Joe!


----------



## Beolab (Jul 11, 2017)

I have bought the latest Stereophile issue and read through the 5 page long great test!

One fun statement is: "Buying black discs like this and listen to them with products like the new Abyss Phi is like getting paid to take LSD, drink Hennesy VSOP, and grind with Tina. The hard part is to telling you about it"

=)=)=)


----------



## urez

mulder01 said:


> hmm... I had some comfort issues with mine too (giant head), but try this:
> Put your abyss on and play some music
> Then grab the drivers and pull them out slightly so the pads are only very gently touching your head - take away all the clamping force.
> See how it sounds different?  More open, wider soundstage.
> ...





Beolab said:


> I got a pretty big head to, and for me the Abyss Phi sounds better when i have them on the widest setting and max toed out and the fitting on my head are like this  / 0 \ ,  and if i bend them out for a more loose fitment im loosing perception in focus and the low end intimacy, where you can play louder with better control.
> Yes the soundstage get slightly wider, but that is just about it, so for me a gentle pressure over and in the back of my ear ( i got it seeled  to about 50% around the ear)  and the rest is leaking slightly. The stitching on the ear cup is pointing straight forward at 3 o'clock.
> That is the best all around setting i have discovered that suites me the best, but yes it does pressure a little, but i can live with that.



Guys it's some difficult to say in words, i'll try with photos, there are two screws on each side(earcup), so with one you can make /o\ , |o|, or \o/.
With another we can adjust clamping pressure from small(for big head listener) to high.


----------



## mulder01

^ Ah very nice.  It was hard to tell from the original photos that it was adjustable.


----------



## jlbrach

After a long wait I received my upgrade to the Phi yesterday and in my early listening I am very impressed and pleased...to my ears they are a bit more dynamic,more detailed and the ability to distinguish individual instruments has been enhanced....I recognize they need to burn in for a while etc and i am told the lower end will improve over time....that said,thus far I am very impressed....I think they are superior to the Utopia in pretty much all ways other than the Utopis comfort and efficiency.....


----------



## jlbrach

also let me add they were received at JPS on Monday and i had then back on wednesday which really was terrific service!


----------



## urez

jlbrach said:


> After a long wait I received my upgrade to the Phi yesterday and in my early listening I am very impressed and pleased...to my ears they are a bit more dynamic,more detailed and the ability to distinguish individual instruments has been enhanced....I recognize they need to burn in for a while etc and i am told the lower end will improve over time....that said,thus far I am very impressed....I think they are superior to the Utopia in pretty much all ways other than the Utopis comfort and efficiency.....


What can you say about low freq quality and amount, is it the same as v1 or became another?


----------



## Leotis (Jul 14, 2017)

I am wondering if I should upgrade.


----------



## jlbrach

worth it to me but everyone is different


----------



## Leotis (Jul 14, 2017)

I guess it was a dumb question.
Shoulda gone to Can Jam to see for myself.
But 2 hour drive and that show always costs me $$$ I didn't plan on.
BTW, You need my Dana Lazuli Cables.
If Phi upgrade is worth it to you then Lazuli is way worth it. IMHO.
Unless you already got something pretty special.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazi..._Lazuli_Reference_Headphone_Cables_Review.htm


----------



## isquirrel

Joe Skubinski said:


> We made the August cover... I'll post a link once the review is online


Congratulations Joe, just wait until I do my review in Mono and Stereo!


----------



## isquirrel

Thaudiophile said:


> Now that woo audio wa33 is out, what do you think is the better amp Eddie current studio or wa33?Sorry I have asked this question on wa33 thread but I got no reply.


I will be auditioning both and doing a full exhaustive review of the WA 33 Elite soon.....


----------



## jlbrach

further update...paired with chord Dave the Phi just gets better and better the detail,the sound stage is simply stunning....the bass is burning in as well as i listen.....expensive yes but truly special IMHO....I have heard everything other than the stax and to my ears nothing matches the Phi.....if only it were easier to wear lol


----------



## Leotis (Jul 18, 2017)

Thank you for the impressions.
I'm definitely gonna grab the Phi.
Think I'm coming up on the wait list soon.
As far as the comfort, I tried the 3/4" foam pad someone suggested and it works perfectly for me.
Without it it they ride on my ears and feel ready to fall off.


----------



## jlbrach

yes,the comfort and fit are very challenging but for me the effort is worth it


----------



## mulder01

So do the people who have done the Phi upgrade agree with the claim that it is more transparent and more true to the source?  
If so, I can understand how that would be a good thing for people who have a very high end system.  But lately I have been using my Abyss off a DAP and am getting pretty used to it.  I wonder if more transparency and trueness to the source is actually a good thing with a more basic system feeding it.

(Obviously I will have to try it myself sometime, but just curious as to what everyone thinks)


----------



## jlbrach

Phi for me is a bit more dynamic,definitely more detailed...better separation of instruments with the same incredible bass and soundstage....i am impressed


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Abyss AB-1266 Phi review in Stereophile Magazine...

https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-17-abyss-ab-1266-phi-headphones

And a short video to explain my reference to fruit 
.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Hey Guys,

I've just put up a comparison review between a few headphones, including the Abyss. See my thoughts here:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/totl-headphones-comparison.856079/

Once i get the Phi in December i'll be adding it to the comparison.


----------



## Beolab

matthewhypolite said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I've just put up a comparison review between a few headphones, including the Abyss. See my thoughts here:
> 
> ...



Great wrightup and i think you are spot on in your impressions and ratings! Great work! ***


----------



## matthewhypolite

Beolab said:


> Great wrightup and i think you are spot on in your impressions and ratings! Great work! ***


Thanks.


----------



## jlbrach

IMHO the new abyss Phi is better than the Utopia...I have both


----------



## drew911d

Is there any chance there's a place in Phx that I could listen to these?


----------



## matthewhypolite

jlbrach said:


> is better than the Utopia...I have both



Did you previously own the regular abyss? how would you compare that one against utopia?


----------



## jlbrach

better in all respects!.....


----------



## matthewhypolite

Just to be clear, you're saying the original Abyss is better than utopia in all respects?


----------



## jlbrach

I am!That is my opinion only of course I do not state it as fact.....the downside of the Abyss is the difficulty fitting it....that said if you can over that it has incredible bass,is detailed and dynamic and has a wonderful soundstage...again my take only


----------



## matthewhypolite

jlbrach said:


> I am!That is my opinion only of course I do not state it as fact.....the downside of the Abyss is the difficulty fitting it....that said if you can over that it has incredible bass,is detailed and dynamic and has a wonderful soundstage...again my take only



Cool, just making sure i understood you correctly, because at first it sounded like you said the Phi is better in every respect, so got me wondering if to your ears the Utopia had some things over the Abyss which the Phi improved on. 
But you've cleared it up, you just love the abyss  Utopia be damned.

And that's fine.


----------



## jlbrach

Please do not get me wrong,the Utopia and the LCD-4 are both incredible HP's and both could easily be considered the best...in this league it is all subjective


----------



## matthewhypolite

jlbrach said:


> Please do not get me wrong,the Utopia and the LCD-4 are both incredible HP's and both could easily be considered the best...in this league it is all subjective



Totally understand, recently did up a review between HE1000v2, LCD3, Abyss, Utopia. among them i find the utopia and abyss the best, they trade blows. but Abyss takes the edge in SQ.


----------



## jlbrach

you need to test the LCD-4 not the 3...no comparison there


----------



## matthewhypolite

Well it did get the lowest score, but i did that one from memory because I had to give up on Audeze after my 5th failed lcd3. But don't wanna harp on that here. 

How does the LCD4 compare to abyss/utopia?


----------



## jlbrach

LCD-4 is right there with them,every bit as good but again subjective


----------



## Shlonglor

I just got these. Super awesome, but super uncomfortable. My head begins to throb where it hits the band after a short while, and there's nowhere to run.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jlbrach said:


> LCD-4 is right there with them,every bit as good but again subjective



Minus the obvious lack of build quality...  One is leagues behind the other two.  Of the Abyss, Utopia and LCD4 on is crafted from what feels like a solid block of metal, the other crafted with carbon fiber and lambskin, and one piece together from parts found in a junk drawer.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Shlonglor said:


> I just got these. Super awesome, but super uncomfortable. My head begins to throb where it hits the band after a short while, and there's nowhere to run.



Take a read here:
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/totl-headphones-comparison.856079/#post-13616612


----------



## Sonic77

Rhetorical question, "Why do we have to mod a $4,494-$5495 headphone?" They don't have enough money for R&D to research other materials, like the materials Utopia uses? I bought mine a few weeks ago, sound great, but too small (I have a big head) they need to make the current head band adjustable to larger sizes, I think this is also a common complaint.


----------



## mulder01

A vertical adjustment on the holders that hold the leather headband would be good for the people that have small heads and the headphone sits too low.  
And the option to purchase a wider metal frame would suit us melon heads.  
Those two things would probably be enough for more people to be able to dial in the perfect fit.
Once you can work out a solution that works for you though, it's so worth the effort.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Sonic77 said:


> Rhetorical question, "Why do we have to mod a $4,494-$5495 headphone?" They don't have enough money for R&D to research other materials, like the materials Utopia uses? I bought mine a few weeks ago, sound great, but too small (I have a big head) they need to make the current head band adjustable to larger sizes, I think this is also a common complaint.



There are a number of ways we can customize the fit for your larger head. PM me...


----------



## Shlonglor (Jul 26, 2017)

Behold the ingenuity of my new "mod"!















Materials:
1 knife
1 the spongy material holding the cables that came with the Abyss box

Instructions:
Cut the ****ing sponge intro a thin strip
Place it under the headband of your $4500 headphones

The sponge slightly distributes the weight so that the headphones no longer press on just the one point of your skull, preventing you from wishing you were dead after 15 minutes of use and somewhat mitigating the feeling of being stupid for spending so much money on a pair of headphones that sound great but only for the two-three tracks you can suffer them for.


----------



## mulder01

lol maybe you should hit Joe up on his offer... He is the man to talk to about your Abyss - I can't fault the customer service that accompanies these headphones.

Failing that, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, for like the 5th time in this thread I will suggest using some cable ties or velcro to suspend the headband in a more... head-following arch... This is the only photo I can find of when I did it to mine.


----------



## Sonic77

Shlonglor said:


> Behold the ingenuity of my new "mod"!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hahahahaha
We are in the iron vice grip of a 50,000 lbs per sq inch of pressure squeezing our brains out device to get 10 min of sonic bliss, which we happily paid $8 million dollars for! Woo!

Help me Joe, how do I get these things to ease off me?


----------



## Stereolab42

I just heard the Utopia vs Abyss Phi, Hifiman Susvara, and a few others... out of all non-Abyss headphones I've heard it comes closest to matching the power and live-music feel of the Abyss. An excellent option for someone who wants a much more sensitive and portable headphone that can stand up to the Abyss.


----------



## Leotis (Jul 26, 2017)

Need a super genius to figure out how to achieve the physical effect of stable ear cup orientation with minimal pressure to get the Abyss sonics... but comfortable and easy fit.
What about conventional headphone design  (swivel in all directions and adjust up and down) but put small vents around periphery of ear cup?
If I have earpieces clamped tightly and insert  a finger between ear cup and head it provides a small vent and the sonics approach what I get with ear cup minimal contact.


----------



## LaCuffia

I am genuinely curious about how the Abyss sounds, as I am sure it's extremely unique and of supreme quality, but all of these posts regarding fit and comfort are kind of funny.  It seems like users are talking about trying to balance the Brooklyn bridge on their heads.       So sitting upright with a headphone would be annoying?   Never heard that before.


----------



## Leotis (Jul 26, 2017)

So why do you suppose everyone puts up with the ergonomic challenges, not to mention the price of the Abyss???
Hint: Maybe it's because the Abyss sound quality smokes everything else out there. (Including the Utopia IMO. Closed in sound stage is a deal breaker for me.)
Skubinski is going to have to come up with something on the ergonomics.


----------



## LaCuffia

No pain no gain I guess...


----------



## bigfatpaulie (Jul 27, 2017)

Speaker guys spend days and months fussing over placement in a room.  To toe in, not to toe in...

It's an endless battle of trial and error with speakers. 

Headphone guys are lucky - we just pop them on and PRESTO!  Well, I have news for you: the Abyss are speaker like in that placement and fit matter.  It's fickle.  It takes time.  It takes patience.  And it's unique to the Abyss.

The HE6 bascailly sucks out of the box but people painstakingly modify it into a wonderful headphone.  The cost of admission is time and effort.  The Abyss is the same, to a much lesser scale.

It's part of the charm of the headphone and if you aren't willing to pay your dues, you don't get to enjoy it.  It is, however, very much worth effort.


----------



## jlbrach (Jul 27, 2017)

a word to the wise regarding the 1266 Phi...they are slightly more efficient than version 1 but these things need serious power to sound their best and their best is better than anything else i have heard....they really open up with the right amp....I use my Utopia with my Dave and it sounds great due to the efficiency of the Utopia which is IMHO their best selling point,they also sound great straight out of the Hugo 2.....the abyss sound great out of the Dave but really bloom when paired with my moon 430....In general i prefer the transparency of using the Dave without external amp but with the Abyss i have found the benefits of the additional power outweigh any downsides and loss of transparency  ......at least that is my view as of now!


----------



## Sonic77

jlbrach said:


> a word to the wise regarding the 1266 Phi...they are slightly more efficient than version 1 but these things need serious power to sound their best and their best is better than anything else i have heard....they really open up with the right amp....I use my Utopia with my Dave and it sounds great due to the efficiency of the Utopia which is IMHO their best selling point,they also sound great straight out of the Hugo 2.....the abyss sound great out of the Dave but really bloom when paired with my moon 430....In general i prefer the transparency of using the Dave without external amp but with the Abyss i have found the benefits of the additional power outweigh any downsides and loss of transparency  ......at least that is my view as of now!


I didn't like the Abyss paired with the Dave either, didn't sound right for whatever reason. I have the Woo Audio WA33 on order right now just waiting to receive it, scheduled for sometime in August, I will not pair it with the Dave, but the Mirus Pro dac with the ultraRendu, which I prefer over the Dave dac, with or without headphones.


----------



## Stereolab42

Sonic77 said:


> I didn't like the Abyss paired with the Dave either, didn't sound right for whatever reason. I have the Woo Audio WA33 on order right now just waiting to receive it, scheduled for sometime in August, I will not pair it with the Dave, but the Mirus Pro dac with the ultraRendu, which I prefer over the Dave dac, with or without headphones.



You will love the WA33, that's what I heard recently with the Phi and Utopia... if you can swing it I suggest upgrading to the Elite, there is a noticeable difference. (But of course for a little more than the price of the Elite you can have a WA234 instead... honestly Woo should have made more of a pricing gap between the 33 Elite and the 234, as good as the 33 Elite is the 234 is an iconic masterpiece.)


----------



## mulder01

Stereolab42 said:


> You will love the WA33, that's what I heard recently with the Phi and Utopia... if you can swing it I suggest upgrading to the Elite, there is a noticeable difference. (But of course for a little more than the price of the Elite you can have a WA234 instead... honestly Woo should have made more of a pricing gap between the 33 Elite and the 234, as good as the 33 Elite is the 234 is an iconic masterpiece.)



Hmm yeah I just noticed they now have in their range a $15k amp and a $15.9k amp.  And they are advertising the 33 Elite as the new flagship on their home page.  Strange


----------



## Beolab

jlbrach said:


> a word to the wise regarding the 1266 Phi...they are slightly more efficient than version 1 but these things need serious power to sound their best and their best is better than anything else i have heard....they really open up with the right amp....I use my Utopia with my Dave and it sounds great due to the efficiency of the Utopia which is IMHO their best selling point,they also sound great straight out of the Hugo 2.....the abyss sound great out of the Dave but really bloom when paired with my moon 430....In general i prefer the transparency of using the Dave without external amp but with the Abyss i have found the benefits of the additional power outweigh any downsides and loss of transparency  ......at least that is my view as of now!



Yes the Phi needs a slight more power to start "brething" in my opinion even thoug they are slightly more efficient than the org. version.


----------



## blackrain139

Guys, new to this thread. So I demoed an Abyss 1266 Phi at my local retailer and bought it. It'll take about 3 weeks to arrive

I need some recommendations for a SS amp to go with the Abyss. I'll be feeding the amp from a Dave

What amps are you guys using for your Abyss?


----------



## jlbrach

I have the Phi and the Dave and I use a Moon 430 amp with it....sometimes I go straight out of the Dave,depends how i feel...you will love the dave with the Phi no matter whether you decide to use an external amp or not


----------



## bigfatpaulie

blackrain139 said:


> Guys, new to this thread. So I demoed an Abyss 1266 Phi at my local retailer and bought it. It'll take about 3 weeks to arrive
> 
> I need some recommendations for a SS amp to go with the Abyss. I'll be feeding the amp from a Dave
> 
> What amps are you guys using for your Abyss?



Depends on your budget.  The three best amps I've heard with the Abyss are the Pass Labs INT-30, Moon 600i and EC Studio.  Each has a different character so that is a personal choice.  I'm inclined to say that the Studio was ultimately my favorite of the three.


----------



## blackrain139

I tried Phi with the Dave and I'm a bit lukewarm about it. Seems to lack a bit of body. I felt that it sounded thin

Any impressions of the Violectric HPA 280/281 or the Wells Milo with the Phi?


----------



## blackrain139

bigfatpaulie said:


> Depends on your budget.  The three best amps I've heard with the Abyss are the Pass Labs INT-30, Moon 600i and EC Studio.  Each has a different character so that is a personal choice.  I'm inclined to say that the Studio was ultimately my favorite of the three.



Which of these 3 amps is the warmest or has the strongest bass response?


----------



## jlbrach

you can find a Moon neo 430 at a good price these days and it is a hell of an amp...plays nice with the Dave


----------



## Thenewguy007

So now that people had the Phi for a few months, how has burn in ultimately changed the signature?

Is the bass still light compared to regular version? Or did it become more visceral & hard hitting? Did the treble become more incisive or is it still softer after all these months?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

blackrain139 said:


> Which of these 3 amps is the warmest or has the strongest bass response?



Strongest bass response?  I'm not sure what you mean...  Most impact?  Goes the deepest?  Most articulated?  Boomiest (yikes)?


----------



## blackrain139

Deepest and most impact. The visceral hard hitting bass without any boominess!


----------



## Thenewguy007

bigfatpaulie said:


> Strongest bass response?  I'm not sure what you mean...  Most impact?  Goes the deepest?  Most articulated?  Boomiest (yikes)?



Let's say strongest sub-bass rumble. The one you can physically feel the most air from the bass.


----------



## Beolab (Jul 29, 2017)

Thenewguy007 said:


> So now that people had the Phi for a few months, how has burn in ultimately changed the signature?
> 
> Is the bass still light compared to regular version? Or did it become more visceral & hard hitting? Did the treble become more incisive or is it still softer after all these months?



The Phi got a more neutral bass respones than the slight colored org. version, but it have got slight better after a long burn in.

Amps:

The Moon 600i dual mono 2x 250 watt 4 Ohm ( i own one)
got a sound of a big 500 watt Mark Levinson Mono block amps, with great control / viscerality / calmness / transparent. The best SS amp i have tried for headphones.

The EC Studio got that magic touch and impact but not too warm like the usual tube amps. Great choice

Pass Lab INT30
Less impact and power, sounds to me like something in between the Moon 430 and HeadAmp GSX. Little brighter and not the best combo with DAVE in my opinion.


Wells Audio HeadTrip got huge control / power / impact, but not as refined and visceral dynamic / airy / or transparent as the Moon 600i. Not the best combo with DAVE. The headtrip needs to be fed by a warm DAC like the AMR DP-777 to shine at is best. It sounding a bit hard. 

The Moon 430 is a great amp also but i think the Abyss Phi needs a slight better amp if you got a DAVE and the Phi.

So my suggestion is the EC Studio o Moon 600i or Moon 700i SS speaker amp.


----------



## Beolab (Jul 28, 2017)

Thenewguy007 said:


> Let's say strongest sub-bass rumble. The one you can physically feel the most air from the bass.



If you like subbas rumble then you can buy the Ifi Ican Pro amp with 10hz , 20hz , 30hz , 40hz analog xbass control,  where you can get your Abyss to rumble your chick bones all the way down your spine 

Or connect a Ifi iTube II tube buffer between your DAVE and the Moon 600i like i have,  and you can choose how much rumble you want with the Xbass control. Much more expensive combo though.

Another tip is to connect a subwoofer when you are listening to your open headphones.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Beolab said:


> Pass Lab INT30
> Less impact and power, sounds to me like something in between the Moon 430 and HeadAmp GSX. Little brighter and not the best combo with DAVE in my opinion.




What?  I agree with everything else you've said the but the Pass is a more warm and lush amp for a SS amp.  It's totally not bright - the Studio, even with warmer mesh plates - has more attack and aggressive treble.  To me, easily the warmest of the three amps I mentioned.  I would never, ever compare it to a GSX, even on the worst of days... 

Are you sure you are thinking of the INT-30A?  It sounds like you are thinking of a totally different amp....


----------



## Beolab

bigfatpaulie said:


> What?  I agree with everything else you've said the but the Pass is a more warm and lush amp for a SS amp.  It's totally not bright - the Studio, even with warmer mesh plates - has more attack and aggressive treble.  To me, easily the warmest of the three amps I mentioned.  I would never, ever compare it to a GSX, even on the worst of days...
> 
> Are you sure you are thinking of the INT-30A?  It sounds like you are thinking of a totally different amp....



Paule: 

Yes it is lush as the Moon, and slight more transparent and i did not personally find it as great with the DAVE + Abyss Phi. 
Did you find the Pass to be warmer than the Moon if i understand you correct?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Yes.  The Moon was more lively and the Pass was more romantic sounding.


----------



## Beolab (Jul 28, 2017)

bigfatpaulie said:


> Yes.  The Moon was more lively and the Pass was more romantic sounding.



I believe you Paulie, so i have to take it home one more time and try it out.
My friend Robert is the Pass Lab agent for Northern Scandinavia ( Europe )


----------



## mulder01

blackrain139 said:


> I tried Phi with the Dave and I'm a bit lukewarm about it. Seems to lack a bit of body. I felt that it sounded thin
> 
> Any impressions of the Violectric HPA 280/281 or the Wells Milo with the Phi?



I have been using the v281 with mine since I got my Abyss and have been very happy with it.  Effortless sound and plenty of headroom.  Also definitely one of the warmer SS amps I have heard.

A couple of people on here are running the Milo and are quite pleased with it too.  I believe the Wells Headtrip was designed with the Abyss in mind.  I think it uses JPS cable internally or something?  And the Milo is meant to be it's little brother so I suppose sound signature is probably similar.  Haven't heard the wells gear myself though and there's a pretty big price gap between those amps.  And some of the other amps mentioned on here actually.  Depends what you want to spend.


----------



## drew911d (Jul 28, 2017)

Another week or two I get to wait anxiously for the delivery of my Abyss Phi and Milo.  Can't wait!  Uhgg!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Beolab said:


> I believe you Paulie, so i have to take it home one more time and try it out.
> My friend Robert is the Pass Lab agent for Northern Scandinavia ( Europe )



I think we have a strong mutual respect


----------



## jlbrach

one thing i am really enjoying is the that i am finding myself listening to very busy musical passages and being able to make out words from the vocalist i have never understood in the past....i was listening tonight to one of my favorite live albums...smithereens live in concert an album i love but in the past was not able to make out many of the lyrics and lo and behold i was listening to songs and singing along to the proper lyrics...very very impressive


----------



## rdreyer

Joe Skubinski said:


> There are a number of ways we can customize the fit for your larger head. PM me...



I have a large head (the SR-009 and HD800 clamp very painfully), and Joe had some great solutions that did not involve surgery 
The AB-1266 (now Phi) are now the most comfortable headphones I own (and tried).

Renaud


----------



## Sonic77

rdreyer said:


> I have a large head (the SR-009 and HD800 clamp very painfully), and Joe had some great solutions that did not involve surgery
> The AB-1266 (now Phi) are now the most comfortable headphones I own (and tried).
> 
> Renaud


Did it require more then bending the frame? lol


----------



## rdreyer

Sonic77 said:


> Did it require more then bending the frame? lol



Yes, Joe stretched the horizontal frame (by about an inch) and gave me a headband with longer elastics. So there was some surgery required... but not on me, fortunately!

Renaud


----------



## Sonic77

rdreyer said:


> Yes, Joe stretched the horizontal frame (by about an inch) and gave me a headband with longer elastics. So there was some surgery required... but not on me, fortunately!
> 
> Renaud


Hahaha, right otherwise he'd be a headshrinker.
So you had to send them in?


----------



## rdreyer

Sonic77 said:


> Hahaha, right otherwise he'd be a headshrinker.
> So you had to send them in?



Yes, I had to send them in to JPS Labs, the whole process took about 10 days total, including shipping.

Renaud


----------



## Sonic77

rdreyer said:


> Yes, I had to send them in to JPS Labs, the whole process took about 10 days total, including shipping.
> 
> Renaud


Ok thanks Renaud.


----------



## drew911d

Alright, I'm Loving my new Phi!  Just unpacked yesterday.  Unpacked my new WA Milo amp today.  Just awesome pair!.  I recently sampled Utopia with Naim amp, and while they were breathtaking for the best recordings, they just fell flat with a lot of what I really listen to.  8 hours into it so far and already, as impressive plus on the best recordings and, you say visceral?  Helll yeah!.  Megadeath sounded lifeless and lacking bass on the utopia, but here I FEEL the bass!  So full of life and emersive.  So good all around.  I don't have to pick certain perfect masters to enjoy these.  I can pull anything at random and it all sounds better than I've ever heard.  

This is just with my Pono line out yet.  Still deciding on a Dac for long time.  So Loving these!


----------



## Mystel

Been a while since i posted but, I got my Phis last month. 
So far its been the best headphone ive heard for my taste. 
Being able to feel the music is just awesome.
Really, really pleased with it


----------



## cradon

@Mystel are these as resolving as the Utopia? How do they compare to the HE-6 in bass punch and presence?


----------



## Beolab (Aug 10, 2017)

Auralic Aries - W4s Remedy ( drivven by LPS-1 Supercap ) - Hugo 2 - Ifi micro Black Lable with XBass+ - Ifi iTube 2 - Moon 600i Dual mono - Abyss Phi.

Optical cables used is: AQ Diamond.



Hooked up this little setup, and the sound is full / Visceral, resolution , airy + got Real nerv to the sound



That is worlds best headphones , the Utopia sounds like a great sounding old telephone in comparison.


----------



## draytonklammer (Aug 10, 2017)

So I went to try out my Abyss again. I've been listening to my Utopia religiously.

The left driver is suddenly super quiet regardless of which headphone cable I plug in.

Pretty pissed off at the driver quality right now. Right side works fine, but now it would cost thousands to get the set replaced. Even if it's something simple, it worries me in terms of the future for these if it's that easy to have issues.
Sure I could "upgrade" to the Phi, but why would I want to upgrade something that breaks from being in a bag for the last 3-6 months? XD

It randomly starts working every 5-10 minutes for a few seconds, but that stopped about an hour ago.

My only thought is if there's a hair stuck somewhere, but if not then I am kind of just screwed.


----------



## LaCuffia

I guess you'll have to update your sale ad.


----------



## draytonklammer (Aug 10, 2017)

LaCuffia said:


> I guess you'll have to update your sale ad.



Thanks, you're a HUGE help. (except that doesn't actually help this at all, now does it?)


----------



## LaCuffia

You are welcome.  Maybe with a better attitude, including responding out of courtesy to PM's, you would have sold them already.


----------



## draytonklammer

LaCuffia said:


> You are welcome.  Maybe with a better attitude, including responding out of courtesy to PM's, you would have sold them already.



You mean I didn't like your undervalued offer so decided not to waste either of our time?
Shoot.

I'm not a customer service rep, so no, I didn't send you a courtesy message. What do you think this is, the Kimpton Alexis?

These haven't sold because I am patient. Everyone is quick selling their Abyss for $2400 (with much less than mine comes with, or just in general a couple less items)
That, and I have replied to 90% of my PMs. Yours wasn't reasonable.

Anyways, back on topic. If you have further issues, please send me a PM and I would be glad to respond and ease your concerns. XD


----------



## LaCuffia

Your post just proved my point.  Get over yourself dude.  You started it with your "captain obvious" comment.  

Carry on and good luck.


----------



## Thenewguy007

draytonklammer said:


> Pretty pissed off at the driver quality right now. Right side works fine, but now it would cost thousands to get the set replaced..



It's not covered with the warranty?


----------



## draytonklammer

LaCuffia said:


> Your post just proved my point.  Get over yourself dude.  You started it with your "captain obvious" comment.
> 
> Carry on and good luck.



What part of PM me with any other issues did you miss? If you can't end an argument and live with the results, take it up with me in a private domain.
I literally gave you the option bud.



Thenewguy007 said:


> It's not covered with the warranty?



Sadly they're an older cross notch pair. So not the eldest of all Abyss, but maybe 2-3 years old I would say...

Send Joe a PM + email, hoping to hear back and get them fixed up. Just curious if it'll be something simple and cheap, or expensive to the point of replacing drivers, which would be awful and potentially not worth it for me.
At that point I would probably consider asking for them back to sell them cheaper to someone who wants to upgrade them to Phis.


----------



## jlbrach

draytonklammer said:


> You mean I didn't like your undervalued offer so decided not to waste either of our time?
> Shoot.
> 
> I'm not a customer service rep, so no, I didn't send you a courtesy message. What do you think this is, the Kimpton Alexis?
> ...




The truth is you can buy a new Phi for 4500.00...you can update a current one for 1500 so the truth is it is going to be difficult to sell a used one for anything more than 2400.00 or so...I updated mine and i am being realistic about value


----------



## draytonklammer

jlbrach said:


> The truth is you can buy a new Phi for 4500.00...you can update a current one for 1500 so the truth is it is going to be difficult to sell a used one for anything more than 2400.00 or so...I updated mine and i am being realistic about value



At this point I'm just sad I don't have a working headphone, nor anything to sell.

That's a huge hole in my pocket.


----------



## jlbrach

understood and i commiserate with you,I was just commenting on the value of a used abyss


----------



## draytonklammer

jlbrach said:


> understood and i commiserate with you,I was just commenting on the value of a used abyss



That still doesn't include an extra headband + custom cable. Heck, even $2700 would have been fine.

Either way, now I don't have anything besides the right side.

Thanks for the comment though, I'll keep it in mind if this gets fixed for a reasonable cost.
That or I might just be screwed unfortunately. Life lesson I suppose.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

@draytonklammer , Last we spoke early this year you were having similar problems, blamed the cable, you ordered an aftermarket cable and I never heard back, assumed you found the problem. That was the right channel, now it's the left. As I suggested before, send the whole set in and let us check it out, cables, adaptors, and all. PM me for a RA.



draytonklammer said:


> At this point I'm just sad I don't have a working headphone, nor anything to sell.


----------



## draytonklammer

Joe Skubinski said:


> @draytonklammer , Last we spoke early this year you were having similar problems, blamed the cable, you ordered an aftermarket cable and I never heard back, assumed you found the problem. That was the right channel, now it's the left. As I suggested before, send the whole set in and let us check it out, cables, adaptors, and all. PM me for a RA.



Just sent you a message, thanks Joe.


----------



## Mystel

cradon said:


> @Mystel are these as resolving as the Utopia? How do they compare to the HE-6 in bass punch and presence?


In my opinion yes, they are just as, if  not more resolving than the utopia. I still question the need of the Utopia in my collection, given my tastes. IMO, apart from looks, the Phi is better than the Utopia in everything . 
Dont get me wrong, the Utopia is still an excellent headphone, it excels at many genres. Its just that it doesnt have the exciting, full-of-life sound that the Phis can offer. Its a more enjoyable experience to listen to tracks on the Phis than the utopia
I used to keep the Utopia as a complement to the original abyss. But with the Phis, i no longer see a need to. 
But i do understand why some ppl will prefer the utopia. 

With the Amps i use, i feel the Phis have quite similar bass presentation as a fully modded HE6, Just as tight, fast. I still think the HE6 has more body to the bass, but the Phis definitely punch harder.


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> Just sent you a message, thanks Joe.



AFAIK Joe has been very good with sorting out issues when people just ask.  No need to post a bunch of messages saying how rubbish the drivers are especially when you have had this problem in the past and it has turned out not to be the drivers...


----------



## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> AFAIK Joe has been very good with sorting out issues when people just ask.  No need to post a bunch of messages saying how rubbish the drivers are especially when you have had this problem in the past and it has turned out not to be the drivers...



First of all, I haven't posted A BUNCH of messages saying how the drivers are rubbish.

Also, with the problem coming back, I have started to wonder if it was the driver the entire time, or something affecting the driver. That or it could have been a mix beforehand, who knows? I sure don't as I haven't opened up the driver for fear of doing further damage.

Neither of us know what's going on. I'll get back to the thread when I have relevant information. Also, when I spend $XXXX.XX on a headphone, I expect damn good quality. I've had $10 headphones last decades of use. Sorry to hold things to a higher standard, but not all of us have a million dollars to spend on our hobbies.
If my Utopia had an issue it would be the same situation. If a cheap pair I had broke, or stopped working properly, I'd go buy another one. These aren't that simple.

So in no way am I trying to generalize that Joe makes a faulty product. In general I've had good experiences with him, but if it is a dead driver for example, that was an extremely short lifespan and I probably only have 100-300 hours on these things. That's nothing to be honest.


----------



## isquirrel

I decided to keep my current pair of Abyss as they are in perfect condition and so I could compare them in a review with the new Phi. Joe is also sending the Super Conductor Cables to try in place of stock so I will be able to make some comments in the next few weeks.


----------



## isquirrel

mulder01 said:


> Hmm yeah I just noticed they now have in their range a $15k amp and a $15.9k amp.  And they are advertising the 33 Elite as the new flagship on their home page.  Strange


Stay tuned on that one, things are always changing in the Amplifier world. To make things even more interesting Elrog have just released a Thoriated Tungsten 274B first one of its kind.


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> Also, when I spend $XXXX.XX on a headphone, I expect damn good quality. I've had $10 headphones last decades of use. Sorry to hold things to a higher standard, but not all of us have a million dollars to spend on our hobbies.



So do I have millions of dollars?  No - I don't even have the spare change lying around to upgrade to the phi even though the portable setup I am using would likely benefit from the higher efficiency.  

All I'm saying is why not just send it back and see what's up.  If you are the original owner and registered your purchase online, the warranty is 3 years isn't it?  I mean, if you thought the cable was faulty last time but didn't even bother to send it back to get replaced for free, well, yeah.


----------



## mulder01

isquirrel said:


> I decided to keep my current pair of Abyss as they are in perfect condition and so I could compare them in a review with the new Phi. Joe is also sending the Super Conductor Cables to try in place of stock so I will be able to make some comments in the next few weeks.



Sounds good - would be interesting to hear the two side by side


----------



## draytonklammer (Aug 11, 2017)

mulder01 said:


> So do I have millions of dollars?  No - I don't even have the spare change lying around to upgrade to the phi even though the portable setup I am using would likely benefit from the higher efficiency.
> 
> All I'm saying is why not just send it back and see what's up.  If you are the original owner and registered your purchase online, the warranty is 3 years isn't it?  I mean, if you thought the cable was faulty last time but didn't even bother to send it back to get replaced for free, well, yeah.



I respect what you're saying. I unfortunately don't have a warranty any longer for this headphone.
So either
A) I potentially replace the original drivers if that's the issue
B) I upgrade to the Phi
C) It's an easy fix

Weirdest thing though. I am wondering if a hair is caught in there somewhere?
I cranked the Abyss to the maximum volume my 430HA would allow and it started functioning again.
I'm getting so curious...

On a side note, who recommends the upgrade to Phi?
Now that I am listening to the Abyss again vs my Utopia, it's just... man did I miss the immersion, the bass, and how into the music it makes you feel in some genres.

I've heard bad things and good things. Some people say keep what I have, some say upgrade...
Hm...


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> I respect what you're saying. I unfortunately don't have a warranty any longer for this headphone.
> So either
> A) I potentially replace the original drivers if that's the issue
> B) I upgrade to the Phi
> ...



Hopefully the solution is either B or C....
I don't know that trying to blast a hair out of your driver with full volume is going to go well


----------



## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> Hopefully the solution is either B or C....
> I don't know that trying to blast a hair out of your driver with full volume is going to go well



It is on low gain so I don't think it's pushing these too far in terms of their limits.
I suppose full volume is also an exaggeration.

I guess all it leaves me wondering is if my driver is on its way out, or if there's something caught in there.


----------



## mulder01

Something cutting out seems more like a bad connection.  I would expect something caught in the driver to cause distortion.  Could be wrong.  We could speculate for days...


----------



## m17xr2b

@Beolab, what do you gain from using the Ifi Tube in the chain?


----------



## Beolab

m17xr2b said:


> @Beolab, what do you gain from using the Ifi Tube in the chain?



The iTube 2 tubify the sound slightly and takes away the digital grain / edge, but maintain the transparency resolution and timing in a good way.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Oh boy... I need to get in the queue for the upgrade. Midrange/vocals/treble are so.. smooth and natural. Very nice improvements. New to ABYSS folks will not be disappointed. Nice that there's an upgrade path for existing owners.


----------



## isquirrel

Hopefully I will see the Courier man on Monday delivering the Phi's. Joe is also sending me some of the Superconductor cables to try out as well. I decided not to sell my as new original pair just yet so I can do a proper comparison and report on that. If anyone has a particular track they would like me to try and comment on please feel free to send me a PM.


----------



## drew911d

Just sittin and ripping my SACD's.  GAWD, sittin in heaven.  Ripped my SACD from The Chicago Transit Authority.  So wonderful!.  Still short of having a good DAC and only using my pc audio output to Milo and Abyss Phi is stunning.  Can't wait until I can finally make a decision on a good DAC.  Any input would be appreciated.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

drew911d said:


> Just sittin and ripping my SACD's.  GAWD, sittin in heaven.  Ripped my SACD from The Chicago Transit Authority.  So wonderful!.  Still short of having a good DAC and only *using my pc audio output to* Milo and Abyss Phi is stunning.  Can't wait until I can finally make a decision on a good DAC.  Any input would be appreciated.




Oh dear...

As for a DAC recommendation a budget would really help.  It also can depend on your preference.  Some people go for neutrality but risk dryness.  Others want warmth and risk a lack of resolution.  Others like the flavour of NOS and some hate it.  Unless you've got the budget for it, sacrifices generally have to be made.  What are you willing to give up?


----------



## jlbrach

if you have the money the chord dave is stunning with the Phi


----------



## Beolab

jlbrach said:


> if you have the money the chord dave is stunning with the Phi




The Hugo 2 i can recomend as a DAVE Jr.


----------



## jlbrach

The h2 is fantastic but not quite up to the task of driving the phi IMHO


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Drew has a Milo as an amp.


----------



## blackrain139

Thinking of getting some cables for the Abyss Phi. 

What 3rd party cables are you guys using for the Phi?


----------



## Beolab

blackrain139 said:


> Thinking of getting some cables for the Abyss Phi.
> 
> What 3rd party cables are you guys using for the Phi?



I am using 1. DHC Prion4s , Abyss 2. Stock & 3. the SuperConducter.


----------



## rock416

Which is the better choice?


----------



## mulder01

rock416 said:


> Which is the better choice?


First post!  
Abyss is the best choice regardless of cable


----------



## blackrain139

Beolab said:


> I am using 1. DHC Prion4s , Abyss 2. Stock & 3. the SuperConducter.



Did you prefer the Prion or the SuperConductor?


----------



## drew911d

Been busy the last couple days so I haven't had a chance to check back.  House hunting..  Tons of paperwork.

For the DAC I'd like to stay around $2k.  Currently eyeing the Mytek Brooklyn or Cambridge Azur 851N.  I haven't heard either, just want to nnow what has good synergy with the Milo and Abyss.


----------



## cradon

Yggdrasil is the best I've heard in that price range.


----------



## Beolab (Aug 21, 2017)

The Prion 4 sounds very fluid, slight warm, with great silky resolution. The voices sounds richer and the top more airy without any grain, but it cost more than many high end amps and headphones, so dont botther buy any cable before you are fully satisfied with your base gear, because the diffrence are often smaller than switching a amp/dac/headphones. It is more for fine tuning a instrument.
See the cables like a filter almost.

But i also like the stock cable who got great scale and speed, and for its asking price of 0.00$ (Included ) it is great , so start with the stock cable and then save up for a better cable.

The Superconducter sounds a little to buttery fat with slight less resolution and gives you a slighty more congested soundstadge when it comes to " the out of your head 3D experience " vs the DHC Prion4 and Stock Abyss Cable.

The purpose from my findings is that the Superconductor sound High End-ish if you want a fuller darker voiced sound with some spark on the top , or if you are using a brighter DAC + amp combo like the Manhattan + HeadAmp GSX / Auralic Taurus amp setup, then it could be a good alternativ.

This is only my impressions..


----------



## isquirrel

Beolab said:


> The Prion 4 sounds very fluid, slight warm, with great silky resolution. The voices sounds richer and the top more airy without any grain, but it cost more than many high end amps and headphones, so dont botther buy any cable before you are fully satisfied with your base gear, because the diffrence are often smaller than switching a amp/dac/headphones. It is more for fine tuning a instrument.
> See the cables like a filter almost.
> 
> But i also like the stock cable who got great scale and speed, and for its asking price of 0.00$ (Included ) it is great , so start with the stock cable and then save up for a better cable.
> ...


I have exact same cables and the Phi turned up yesterday. Very early impressions are that it is vastly improved over the previous version. I have found it hard to stop listening to, it is for men tastes much more musical than the previous version. Anyone with the previous version should get them updated no question. 

Cables:   I am currently using the DHC Prion4S, I have to say that if you get the Prion4S with the Lemo adapter system you will be able to use any headphone now and in the future with your cables this in my mind makes a good performance/value proposition.

I am currently running the Elrog 300B with Takatsuki 274B rectifiers. I have a strong feeling that the Abyss Phi will sound better when I swap around to the KR HP valves both 300B and 274B.  

More in depth impressions to come.


----------



## draytonklammer

Trying to decide between upgrading to the Phi and selling my Utopia or selling my original Abyss and keeping the Utopia. 

Wish I had a way to listen to the Phi.


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> Trying to decide between upgrading to the Phi and selling my Utopia or selling my original Abyss and keeping the Utopia.
> 
> Wish I had a way to listen to the Phi.



Got your Abyss sorted then?

Surely if you have Abyss and Utopia atm, budget would allow for a phi upgrade at some stage down the track without having to sell the Utopia?

Given that most impressions have been that the difference is subtle (which I assumed it would be - since it was just an update to the existing design and not a new product) I wonder if I would notice.  Interesting to see how Simon's blind testing of his friends goes...


----------



## jlbrach

all differences at this level are subtle....that said,to me the phi is a fine upgrade.....every 4 or 5 years things do improve


----------



## isquirrel

mulder01 said:


> Got your Abyss sorted then?
> 
> Surely if you have Abyss and Utopia atm, budget would allow for a phi upgrade at some stage down the track without having to sell the Utopia?
> 
> Given that most impressions have been that the difference is subtle (which I assumed it would be - since it was just an update to the existing design and not a new product) I wonder if I would notice.  Interesting to see how Simon's blind testing of his friends goes...



Did you some blind testing last night with 2 friends, both unequivocally preferred the Phi over the previous model. They both wanted to compare the Susvara to the Phi but we ran out of time. My feeling is that they are both quite different headphones. When you listen to the Abyss it is an event, it doesn't sound like any other Headphone and that in my book is a good thing. The Susvara is more difficult to drive and does not have the subterranean bass extension of the Abyss nor does it have the off the ears freedom of sound that the Abyss has. The Susvara is a stunning headphone if you have an amp powerful enough to drive it. 

One of them complained about the weight of the Abyss, he normally listens to the HE-1000 so I am not surprised. He also had a wide head so I couldn't get the Abyss setup as I would have liked it without bending the arms, which given that they are mine I did not want to do. I know he would be pre-disposed to the Susvara.

There is no doubt that the Abyss Phi is must have upgrade if you already own a set of the earlier Abyss. We all felt that any serious Headphone audiophile would want to have the Abyss Phi in their collection. For me, part of the beauty of this hobby is being able to change Headphones as my mood/music dictate. Its still early days on my set. The bass is still quite tight and a little restricted, I am sure it will open up and deliver more bass extension and weight as it burns in. I am not 100% happy with the fitment either, the arms need to be a little wider to get those ear pads completely off the sides of my head.

I will change the valves over to the KR HP's and give the Superconductor cable a go. More to come.


----------



## Thenewguy007

isquirrel said:


> Did you some blind testing last night with 2 friends, both unequivocally preferred the Phi over the previous model.
> The bass is still quite tight and a little restricted, I am sure it will open up and deliver more bass extension and weight as it burns



So what were the big trade offs? Is the treble softer, but still has the incisive edge, does the soundstage seem the same, are the mids more upfront? Is bass less in mid bass or less in subbass or both?


----------



## up late

guess that confirms what I've suspected for some time - that i'm not a "serious headphone audiophile"


----------



## draytonklammer

Well folks, I have started listening to my Abyss again over my Utopia.
I put it away for so long I forgot how different and just plain amazing this headphone is.

I'm considering selling my Utopia to fund the Phi upgrade and maybe a superconductor cable...

Just wish there was a way to try the Phi, or more impressions versus the original.
I don't want to lose any bass, I want a bit more mid range, and I want less spiky treble. Those are my only issues with the Abyss, which might have been part of the reason I was driven towards the Utopia. That and it's lighter, not more comfortable though. I still prefer my Abyss in terms of comfort.


----------



## Sonic77

I am listening to my Abyss phi with Woo Audio WA33 and it drives them with ease. I paired the phi with Chord Dave and that didn't sound good to my ears.


----------



## draytonklammer

Sonic77 said:


> I am listening to my Abyss phi with Woo Audio WA33 and it drives them with ease. I paired the phi with Chord Dave and that didn't sound good to my ears.



Do you by chance have any Abyss vs Abyss Phi info?


----------



## Sonic77

draytonklammer said:


> Do you by chance have any Abyss vs Abyss Phi info?


Sorry no.


----------



## rgs9200m (Aug 22, 2017)

Do the ripped SACDs sound as good as the discs? Thanks.


----------



## jlbrach

phi sounds fantastic with my dave...


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> I don't want to lose any bass, I want a bit more mid range, and I want less spiky treble. Those are my only issues with the Abyss



Isn't that the sort of thing you can change with the amp?  If the claim that "the new abyss is more true to the source than the old abyss" is true, every element of the sound will simply become more pronounced than before and perhaps you will get both more of what you do like, and more of what you don't... 

Maybe the impressions we are hearing are people simply hearing a sound truer to their source equipment, rather than sonic characteristics of the new headphone itself...

Like you say though - it would be much easier to decide if we could just have the two side by side.


----------



## mulder01 (Aug 23, 2017)

up late said:


> guess that confirms what I've suspected for some time - that i'm not a "serious headphone audiophile"



ha yeah me too... even though I own a $5k headphone I am happy to run it from a DAP.  I can just sense the heads shaking with disapproval


----------



## isquirrel

draytonklammer said:


> Do you by chance have any Abyss vs Abyss Phi info?


I will send you some on a PM


----------



## ufospls2

draytonklammer said:


> Well folks, I have started listening to my Abyss again over my Utopia.
> I put it away for so long I forgot how different and just plain amazing this headphone is.
> 
> I'm considering selling my Utopia to fund the Phi upgrade and maybe a superconductor cable...
> ...



Sounds like you want the Phi mate. Read my impressions from a few pages back, that is pretty much exactly what I heard. 


What ended up happening with your driver problem?


----------



## Beolab (Aug 27, 2017)

Thenewguy007 said:


> So what were the big trade offs? Is the treble softer, but still has the incisive edge, does the soundstage seem the same, are the mids more upfront? Is bass less in mid bass or less in subbass or both?



The sub bass extension got a slight dip with ~3 db @ ~15-30hz vs the old Abyss, so it sounds a slight less impactfull if you dont add a slight EQ boost in that area. Then it sounds even with the old abyss, but with greater control and much more true to the source!


----------



## isquirrel

I keep getting asked this, "Does the Abyss Phi have the same amount of bass as the old Abyss".

The old Abyss had a U shaped sound which put naturally more emphasis on the bass as there was less mid range, now we have a decent mod range of course some people will say its less prominent. Its still there its just better integrated. It like turning the treble all the way down on an EQ and then all you here is bass, if you turn the treble all the way up then you hear less of the bass but its still there!


----------



## draytonklammer

Beolab said:


> The sub bass extension got a slight dip with ~3 db @ ~15-30hz vs the old Abyss, so it sounds a slight less impactfull if you dont add a slight EQ boost in that area. Then it sounds even with the old abyss, but with greater control and much more true to the source!



I feel like this concerns me in terms of potentially upgrading my Abyss.
I almost wonder if I should keep my current model...

Not a fan of EQ.


----------



## jlbrach

the phi is a big improvement over the original.....better in all aspects IMHO


----------



## cradon

jlbrach said:


> the phi is a big improvement over the original.....better in all aspects IMHO



I agree fully. The only area a find the phi lacking is in the mids where some tiny background sounds aren't as present as on the Susvara or Utopia. The bass is just about perfect to me, not overly done but there when it should be with excellent texture and detail. I also don't find it does depth as convincingly as the Hifiman.


----------



## cradon

draytonklammer said:


> I feel like this concerns me in terms of potentially upgrading my Abyss.
> I almost wonder if I should keep my current model...
> 
> Not a fan of EQ.



Trust me, it has enough sub bass. It really does sound more like speakers with a subwoofer or a really awesome full range one than any other headphone I've heard.


----------



## jlbrach

i have heard everything other than the stax and i must say the Phi is the one HP that sounds like live music to me.....all of the top end HP's are great in their own way and i would not dispute anyone who said they liked a different one best but to me the Phi simply sounds like no other.....as far as the design and comfort,that is another story lol


----------



## draytonklammer

jlbrach said:


> i have heard everything other than the stax and i must say the Phi is the one HP that sounds like live music to me.....all of the top end HP's are great in their own way and i would not dispute anyone who said they liked a different one best but to me the Phi simply sounds like no other.....as far as the design and comfort,that is another story lol



I'm assuming that includes the original abyss?

Have you tried the susvara? (Only flagship available I haven't tried so far but I don't agree with hifiman marketing)

What are your thoughts comparing the Phi to both? 

Thank you.


----------



## jlbrach

Yes includes original abyss and no I have t listened to susvara. Phi is as I said a big improvement on the original IMHO


----------



## Beolab (Aug 30, 2017)

The Phi got a more "compact/solid" presentation and the notes are more or less in a iron grip.  And the background sounds (i named them like magic details) in the midrange that could sound like a small tinkle far out of the headphone like 18 feet away sometimes in a orchestra, these sounds i do not here any longer, or i here them but much narrower with less resolution.

And the bass, it is confirmd that it got a -3db drop around 15-30 hz.


So overal the Phi sounding more mature and tight, more like the presentation of Utopia, and they can handle deep bass with plenty of control and does not ever start to rumble when they have to work with more complex deep bass music types.


The old Abyss is more like a younger untamed puppy that got great energy and rumble with a more U-shaped charactere in its presentation.
More rock-party-headphone you could say, and i would recommend a listening to all of you that got the opportunity just for a comparison, because the taste is always divided as we have learned.


And mark my words, the Phi is the better headphone no question about it, but the org. version is maybe more fun on some tracks/music.


I have compensate the the -3db loss in the lower end by using a iTube II Buffer amp, where i can add +6db in just 35hz and downwards, it does not affect the rest of the overall presentation at all, because it is a clever cirucut in analog domain,( not any digital EQ which i dont like either)

This is my solution for the slight slight loss in the lower end for now, and i get +3db extra as payback, this make the Phi to sound as an live playback in your livingroom!  Without the +6db in 35hz they sound slightly dry for my taste and in comparison to the old Abyss, because i like the visceral effect when they breath and you are feeling the air is moving around your head.

Thats life; you earn some and you loose some, it is impossible to have it all at the same time, or maybe Joe can make a custom sub bass version for you Paulie if you send him your thick wallet or the Platinum  / Centurion Amex digits.  


Phi= Breathtakingly good in the end i have to say and that is with just some small tweaks i have dun to my setup to accomplish this.


I hope this will shade some light to your question and on your decision to upgrade to the Phi's Paulie.


----------



## Shlonglor

I had the original version briefly and have the Phi now. The difference is not _huge_. 
I EQ the lower bass range down sometimes even on the Phi, as it sometimes is quite overbearing. It's deliciously good either way, of course -- better than anything else I've heard. Makes my HD800S sound tinny in comparison.


----------



## HiFiGuy528




----------



## mulder01

I thought Phi was pronounced like the word "fee" - like it rhymes with pea not with pie.  Joe?


----------



## Thenewguy007

mulder01 said:


> I thought Phi was pronounced like the word "fee" - like it rhymes with pea not with pie.  Joe?



I think it's pronounced "pie" as in the math equation?


----------



## mulder01

I suppose that's a possibility too.  fee fi or pi


----------



## jhai

Thenewguy007 said:


> I think it's pronounced "pie" as in the math equation?


Is it not almost as written, i.e. 'fie' as the mathematical symbol, so like 'fei fi fo fum' from the children's story re the 'giant'?


----------



## jhai

Beolab said:


> The Phi got a more "compact/solid" presentation and the notes are more or less in a iron grip.  And the background sounds (i named them like magic details) in the midrange that could sound like a small tinkle far out of the headphone like 18 feet away sometimes in a orchestra, these sounds i do not here any longer, or i here them but much narrower with less resolution.
> 
> And the bass, it is confirmd that it got a -3db drop around 15-30 hz.
> 
> ...


You mention 'not hearing the small tinkles' so are you saying less detail/information at these frequencies. If so I am 'worried'.


----------



## mulder01

jhai said:


> Is it not almost as written, i.e. 'fie' as the mathematical symbol, so like 'fei fi fo fum' from the children's story re the 'giant'?



So... the FEE out of the FEE fi fo fum not the FI out of the fee FI fo fum?

Should have called it Abyss v2


----------



## jhai

mulder01 said:


> So... the FEE out of the FEE fi fo fum not the FI out of the fee FI fo fum?
> 
> Should have called it Abyss v2


Yes Abyss v2 would have. been good, but we wouldn't be having so much 'fun'.  But since we have the 'mathematical symbol', I believe the pronunciation should be more to "FI" /  fie.


----------



## erik701




----------



## mulder01

Yeah I also read the F sound somewhere else - depends where you look - if we go with that's it's kinda an Abyssf


----------



## draytonklammer

So on the fence about upgrading to the Abyss Phi over my current Abyss.


----------



## Beolab

Shlonglor said:


> I had the original version briefly and have the Phi now. The difference is not _huge_.
> I EQ the lower bass range down sometimes even on the Phi, as it sometimes is quite overbearing. It's deliciously good either way, of course -- better than anything else I've heard. Makes my HD800S sound tinny in comparison.




I do not compare the Abyss Phi to any other headphones, i compare them to high end speakers and the old Abyss, i do not find any other comparsion.


----------



## Beolab (Sep 2, 2017)

jhai said:


> You mention 'not hearing the small tinkles' so are you saying less detail/information at these frequencies. If so I am 'worried'.



Not as prounaunced with the micro detail nuances as before, more "groovy" feeded to your ears. Like bigger squared bits. 

(Nintendo 8bit graphic vs Nintendo 64 graphics bit depht ) 

Better in most parts overal with the great control, but diffrent in some with the same source / amp / DAC / cables / vol., but i am very analythical also, so some would not recognize it depending on what they focus on in the presentation.


----------



## mulder01

Beolab said:


> I do not compare the Abyss Phi to any other headphones, i compare them to high end speakers and the old Abyss, i do not find any other comparsion.



Abyss really is on another level of it's own, I agree.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Every time i've been away from abyss for a while and put it back on, im surprised all over again at just how good they are, they really are a special gem. Cant wait to get my Phi in December.


----------



## Xecuter

Beolab said:


> I do not compare the Abyss Phi to any other headphones, i compare them to high end speakers and the old Abyss, i do not find any other comparsion.



Good speakers will always trump headphones in terms of imaging and staging.
Headphones are convenient and don't annoy our partners..


----------



## jhai

Beolab said:


> Not as prounaunced with the micro detail nuances as before, more "groovy" feeded to your ears. Like bigger squared bits.
> 
> (Nintendo 8bit graphic vs Nintendo 64 graphics bit depht )
> 
> Better in most parts overal with the great control, but diffrent in some with the same source / amp / DAC / cables / vol., but i am very analythical also, so some would not recognize it depending on what they focus on in the presentation.


I have the standard Abyss, & this is exactly what I would not expect, (especially from a thinner diaphragm) & also is against what I would want if going to the Phi. Also seems not to gell with comments as to taking the standard Abyss to more towards the Focal, (in regards to 'detail' retrieval at least). 
I am sure that Beolab would not think this unreasonable, so could others chime in as to the differences they have perceived. 
Yes I am 'worried' about "loosing the tinkles". 
Thanks!


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Sep 3, 2017)

If I'd have to guess any 'tinkles 18 feet away' were 'distortions' of the original recording. A distant (very low level) sound would in no way be eliminated with the Phi, rather portrayed more accurately to the way it was recorded. In other words, what was once heard as a tinkle may now be two or more distinct obvious sounds. There is much that goes on within the space of recordings that is normally masked or disguised, Phi better extracts and unbundles this crazy low level stuff.

Beolab has also been tweaking his system to his new Phi, it's not the same as it was. Too many variables here...

I should add that our goal has never been to design and tune our drivers toward any other manufacturer's sound. It should be obvious we have our own path.


----------



## onsionsi

@Beolab how did you find Phi driven by DAVE?


----------



## jhai (Sep 4, 2017)

Joe Skubinski said:


> If I'd have to guess any 'tinkles 18 feet away' were 'distortions' of the original recording. A distant (very low level) sound would in no way be eliminated with the Phi, rather portrayed more accurately to the way it was recorded. In other words, what was once heard as a tinkle may now be two or more distinct obvious sounds. There is much that goes on within the space of recordings that is normally masked or disguised, Phi better extracts and unbundles this crazy low level stuff.
> 
> Beolab has also been tweaking his system to his new Phi, it's not the same as it was. Too many variables here...
> 
> I should add that our goal has never been to design and tune our drivers toward any other manufacturer's sound. It should be obvious we have our own path.


Hi Joe,
Your response is very much appreciated.
I am sure that Beolab will 'understand' my needing to address the matter, & obviously he is indicating what he actually hears.
I am sure wanting all the "tinkles" I can manage, (transferred to my ageing ears).
Thank you


----------



## draytonklammer

I can't wait until there's a set of Phi drivers with my name on them.


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> I can't wait until there's a set of Phi drivers with my name on them.


You put in the order?  Or just dreaming?


----------



## matthewhypolite

mulder01 said:


> You put in the order?  Or just dreaming?



Rofl @ just dreaming.


----------



## cradon

jhai said:


> Hi Joe,
> Your response is very much appreciated.
> I am sure that Beolab will 'understand' my needing to address the matter, & obviously he is indicating what he actually hears.
> I am sure wanting all the "tinkles" I can manage, (transferred to my ageing ears).
> Thank you



The Abyss like the Utopia and Susvara is rather smooth on top unlike a stock HD800 and to a lesser extent the HEK V2. The HD800 shines a spotlight on the upper frequencies thereby giving the impression of more air and detail. With the Abyss Phi being smoother you hear those details in the highs but not with the same laser like sharpness.

The Abyss like the Utopia appears more focused  on the mids and unlike any other headphone I've heard the BASS. The Abyss has an upfront presentation unlike the Susvara, because of this I noticed details in the midrange I didn't on the Susvara until I went back listening for it. The Susvara soundstage presentation is more mid hall giving me the greater impression of depth and 
the overall recording venue.

I'll sum up the whole "tinkles" matter with what a buddy of mine had to say. "I really don't think the Abyss Phi has less resolution, just a different spotlight focus area being more on mids & bass, & less on trebles, which is actually a plus for modern bright music".


----------



## onsionsi

cradon said:


> The Abyss like the Utopia and Susvara is rather smooth on top unlike a stock HD800 and to a lesser extent the HEK V2. The HD800 shines a spotlight on the upper frequencies thereby giving the impression of more air and detail. With the Abyss Phi being smoother you hear those details in the highs but not with the same laser like sharpness.
> 
> The Abyss like the Utopia appears more focused  on the mids and unlike any other headphone I've heard the BASS. The Abyss has an upfront presentation unlike the Susvara, because of this I noticed details in the midrange I didn't on the Susvara until I went back listening for it. The Susvara soundstage presentation is more mid hall giving me the greater impression of depth and
> the overall recording venue.
> ...



How did you compare Susvara vs HEK v2 in terms of Bass and Subbass?


----------



## jlbrach (Sep 5, 2017)

I was listening to my Utopia earlier tonight...enjoying some Elvis Costello and Steely Dan but finding it a bit fatiguing....i have had a love hate relationship with the Utopia since i got it...great respect for its technical abilities....incredible detail and most of all its marvelous efficiency....what always frustrated me was and is the closed in feeling and the in your face presentation....i finally switched to my Phi and it was a revelation....the soundstage expands but most of all there is a sense of space and air around the instruments....simply for me something closer to the real thing....the Phi is very detailed,perhaps not as detailed as the Utopia but if not damn close.....the one thing that has kept me from selling my Utopia is the efficiency which is a real godsend at times and IMHO the strength of the Utopia as well as the build quality....I am not writing this to bash the Utopia,far from it i am writing this to praise the Phi and use the Utopia as a comparison,a frame of reference....now if the Phi was only more comfortable lol.....cant have everything!.......


----------



## chaojiliqilin

I am surprised by the new Phi version upgraded from the original 1266. One thing I noticed is that the mid-range has evolved to be much smoother, which caters to my favourite vocal range.

I am not a fan of classics so I have not idea about it. But for a Pop/Rock fan, phi works better!


----------



## draytonklammer

chaojiliqilin said:


> I am surprised by the new Phi version upgraded from the original 1266. One thing I noticed is that the mid-range has evolved to be much smoother, which caters to my favourite vocal range.
> 
> I am not a fan of classics so I have not idea about it. But for a Pop/Rock fan, phi works better!



It's crazy to see people saying this. I can't wait until mine is ready for purchase... I have quite awhile to wait, but it'll be worth it.
Until then I still prefer my original to the Utopia I own and the LCD-4 I used to own.

It's hard to even imagine a better headphone, so I am very excited for the Phi.

I don't suppose you can do a comparison between the original and Phi? Is there anything worse about them, or is it just a better/more refined Abyss?


----------



## chaojiliqilin (Sep 10, 2017)

draytonklammer said:


> It's crazy to see people saying this. I can't wait until mine is ready for purchase... I have quite awhile to wait, but it'll be worth it.
> Until then I still prefer my original to the Utopia I own and the LCD-4 I used to own.
> 
> It's hard to even imagine a better headphone, so I am very excited for the Phi.
> ...



Hi draytonklammer.

Thank you for your reply! You are right. I am no longer owning the original version of abyss so I cannot make a direct comparison. All I have for old abyss is the memory.

When talking about the drawbacks of phi compared with the original one, I am sorry for not being able to figure out any. As described, I am a fan of POP/ROCK so that bass and vocal are most important for me. There is no need to mention that abyss has the best bass! Original 1266 did not have a good vocal performance. That is why I bought LCD-3 as a compensation. But for new phi this problem has gone! So for me, I may sell my LCD-3 in the future since I cannot figure out the bad things of phi compared with the old abyss. Perhaps other owners could offer more ideas about sound stage, resolution, dynamic, treble, etc. But for me, I do not really care about them.


----------



## jlbrach

draytonklammer said:


> It's crazy to see people saying this. I can't wait until mine is ready for purchase... I have quite awhile to wait, but it'll be worth it.
> Until then I still prefer my original to the Utopia I own and the LCD-4 I used to own.
> 
> It's hard to even imagine a better headphone, so I am very excited for the Phi.
> ...



i must say it is fun to watch your constant changes of opinion


----------



## joyway

People can't view the picture collection of a thread on headfi now? Damn.....( It is allowed before)


----------



## draytonklammer

jlbrach said:


> i must say it is fun to watch your constant changes of opinion



It's honestly fun seeing my own changes.

I've slowly made my way through everything, taken my time, and settled over time.
The one flagship constant and my longest standing flagship is the Abyss though.


----------



## jlbrach

i thought you had given up the abyss for the utopia...IMHO the abyss Phi is head and shoulders better than the utopia and the LCD-4 is as well but that is just my opinion!


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> I don't suppose you can do a comparison between the original and Phi? Is there anything worse about them, or is it just a better/more refined Abyss?



It seems like everyone's impressions have been a bit different.  I suppose if the claim of improved accuracy to the source is true then that would explain why people hear different things - when you plug it into different equipment, a more accurate representation of that system's sound will be different from person to person.


----------



## draytonklammer

jlbrach said:


> i thought you had given up the abyss for the utopia...IMHO the abyss Phi is head and shoulders better than the utopia and the LCD-4 is as well but that is just my opinion!



I might actually agree with you now that I have been through awhile of everything.


----------



## matthewhypolite (Sep 11, 2017)

jlbrach said:


> i thought you had given up the abyss for the utopia...IMHO the abyss Phi is head and shoulders better than the utopia and the LCD-4 is as well but that is just my opinion!


And what was your take on the Utopia vs Abyss V1?

From my own comparison between the Abyss and Utopia, they ended up pretty close in my scoring. Each doing something different. But the areas i took away points from the abyss seems to be what most folks are saying is improved. (comfort aside). I'll see for myself in December when i get my pair how they actually improve, but any improvement over them at this point would edge them out over the Utopia for me i think. Time will tell.


----------



## jlbrach

I liked the original abyss over the utopia but I also liked the LCD-4 over the utopia. I can understand why people would like the utopia because it is so dynamic and in your face and many like that. I find it fatiguing and a bit too narrow and boxed in. To me abyss and especially Phi is head and shoulders better imho but utopia is more comfortable and much more efficient


----------



## up late

nothing is "head and shoulders better" at this level ime


----------



## jlbrach

i will amend my earlier statement...it is true nothing is head and shoulders better...you are correct...that said to ME subjectively I enjoy the Phi far more than the Utopia


----------



## up late

i can understand that, just as i can understand someone enjoying the utopia far more than the abyss etc


----------



## mulder01

up late said:


> nothing is "head and shoulders better" at this level ime



nah, it is


----------



## up late

so you keep saying...


----------



## Beolab (Sep 13, 2017)

OT:

*Opportunity*:

Selling my beloved DHC Prion 4 headphone cables incl. Prion 4 short adapter,  if someone like to buy one of the best ever made for Abyss / Phi .
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dhc...c-flagella-adapter-for-speaker-amping.860182/
Need to found my new expensive Rolls Royce DAC i have bought =/


----------



## mulder01

Are you going back to stock cable or something else?


----------



## Beolab

Yes for the moment i am going back to stock JPS cable and JPS Superconductor, because i need to found my new DCS DAC + DCS Master Clock i have bought.

The "HiFi" bank account is empty otherwise, so the cables had to go sadly.

So the Stock will be playing for a while now and maybe i aim for a DHC later on.


----------



## Christer

Beolab said:


> Yes for the moment i am going back to stock JPS cable and JPS Superconductor, because i need to found my new DCS DAC + DCS Master Clock i have bought.
> 
> The "HiFi" bank account is empty otherwise, so the cables had to go sadly.
> 
> So the Stock will be playing for a while now and maybe i aim for a DHC later on.



Interesting to hear that you have bought a DCS DAC combo. I take that as a sign  that you prefer DCS over Chord knowing that you sold your DAVE.
Which DCS combo did you buy?
Cheers Christer


----------



## Beolab

I still got one Dave left for my piano  black ATC speakers in the living room , just sold one out of two units.

The DCS got a different sound, with more weight , precision , stability , correctness, less pre / after ringing, and it sounds as it looks, its a good explanation, like a rock.

The DAVE is more a nuanced like an optical microscope with layers and layers of pristine layering and is a little more fluid / holographic, with its advanced analog output stage,  but the precision and soundstage is not as precisely placed out. The prestine sound can easily be ruined by a not true transparent amp or pre-amp or a weak streamer, whereas the DCS precision sound shines through more strong even if you try to tweak the sound down the chain. 

So for now i like the DCS sound better, but it can be a different story next month regardless of the price.


----------



## Christer

Beolab said:


> I still got one Dave left for my piano  black ATC speakers in the living room , just sold one out of two units.
> 
> The DCS got a different sound, with more weight , precision , stability , correctness, less pre / after ringing, and it sounds as it looks, its a good explanation, like a rock.
> 
> ...


 Thanks, dCs Vivaldi or Rossini?


----------



## Beolab (Sep 22, 2017)

The one who waits for something good, can not wait to long

Cant tell at the moment, have to insure it first, it is in another leage price wise than Chord yo know..

PS
How is it going with the "saving up for the Hugo 2" Christer?

I expecting a order from you after lurking around in the DAVE and Hugo threads for years know, and getting more and more tierd of your Hugo 1 and Benchmark ?


----------



## Christer

Beolab said:


> The one who waits for something good, can not wait to long
> 
> Cant tell at the moment, have to insure it first, it is in another leage price wise than Chord yo know..
> 
> ...



Hi Fredrik,  to be quite honest, prices in Sweden are too high so if I buy a HUGO 2 or DAVE I'll buy it in Asia.
It is not that I need to save up to buy either HUGO 2 or even a  DAVE. But I still suspect that there might be cheaper ways to achieve basically the same SQ a lot cheaper than what Chord is asking for their products.
HUGO is good in many ways for its size but very problematic in other ways. And not quite what  I had been expecting from all the hype around it when launched.
And  it is interesting to get all this input from others before actually auditioning HUGO 2.
And I also enjoy lurking a bit.

Moreover  all the  QC problems reported here regarding HUGO 2 has made me a bit wary.
It seems they have at least solved one major problem with HUGO 1 on HUGO 2.
A dead batttery does not equal a dead DAC as on my HUGO
And although not quite in DAVE or dCs territory,my Benchmark DAC 2 especially via my HEKV 2 sounds very nice indeed with well recorded acoustic music.
And contrary to what many chord fanboys  believe there are other good DACs too. dCs is used by some classical music recording companies for example.
As  are Merging and RME ADC/DACs
And Benchmark are behind some excellent sounding recordings from no less a stellar orchestra and hall than the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam so I am not in a hurry to waste money for small improvements.
 "I'm good" as the Amercans say.
Let us know how your still "secret" dCS sounds .
The latest dCS I heard was a Vivaldi unit.
I haven't auditioned the Rossini yet.
Cheers Christer


----------



## isquirrel

Update on the Abyss Phi.

Mine have been on 12 hour daily burn in cycles. They are now just over the 300 hour mark and what a difference some significant time has made to the sound! The bass is much deeper and better defined, the treble has improved and the sibilance on all vocals has pretty much disappeared except for some tracks that exhibit natural sibilance. The soundstage has widened and the depth has increased nicely.

When I initially wrote my listening impressions I did make a caveat that they were likely to change however I did not expect them to change this much. I feel compelled to say now that no other headphone has the rock solid slam of the Abyss Phi, I was concerned earlier as I felt that the bass lacked the weight of the previous version but now they are run in the bass has more weight is better delineated and thunderous. I will continue to monitor them for changes as time on them increases.

My current favourite headphone is the Abyss Phi. 

Listening to the following albums:

Alien Covenant
Snowden
Inferno
Dunkirk
Sicario
Prometheus 
Atonement
Zero Dark Thirty
Stripped - Macy Gray
Patricia Barber - Companion


----------



## Thaudiophile

isquirrel said:


> Update on the Abyss Phi.
> 
> Mine have been on 12 hour daily burn in cycles. They are now just over the 300 hour mark and what a difference some significant time has made to the sound! The bass is much deeper and better defined, the treble has improved and the sibilance on all vocals has pretty much disappeared except for some tracks that exhibit natural sibilance. The soundstage has widened and the depth has increased nicely.
> 
> ...


Your favourite headphone even above the hifiman susvara?


----------



## isquirrel

Thaudiophile said:


> Your favourite headphone even above the hifiman susvara?


Yes at the moment. The Abyss is an event to listen to. Nothing can compare with its Thunderous bass energy and ability to tweak the soundstage as you wish. It does need time, if you go into a store to have a listen to a demo pair, it would behoove you to makes sure they have had plenty of hours on them otherwise you are wasting your time.


----------



## Sonic77

isquirrel said:


> Update on the Abyss Phi.
> 
> Mine have been on 12 hour daily burn in cycles. They are now just over the 300 hour mark and what a difference some significant time has made to the sound! The bass is much deeper and better defined, the treble has improved and the sibilance on all vocals has pretty much disappeared except for some tracks that exhibit natural sibilance. The soundstage has widened and the depth has increased nicely.
> 
> ...


This gives me something to look forward to, I listen a couple hours here a couple hours there, it's going to take me awhile to get to 300 hours


----------



## draytonklammer

Thanks iSquirrel. 

Can't wait for January for my set of Phi drivers.


----------



## jlbrach

draytonklammer said:


> Thanks iSquirrel.
> 
> Can't wait for January for my set of Phi drivers.



you sure are a fickle listener lol....i cant wait for your next detour


----------



## draytonklammer

jlbrach said:


> you sure are a fickle listener lol....i cant wait for your next detour



I still think I might be home at the Abyss and soon the Abyss Phi.
It's the one constant in my changing collection and listening patterns.


----------



## AbyssHeadphones

We'll be in our normal places in CanJam and room 6000 at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest October 6-8 in Denver.
Will have the new XIAUDIO (Eleven Audio) headphone amp and Mytek Brooklyn DAC at our booth with both AB-1266 Phi and Diana headphones.
Multiple Phi and Diana in her many attire will be in our quite room 6000 playing on the new Woo Audio WA-33 Elite with KR Audio HP tubes, LaptizatOr DSD DAC, the new Rogue Audio RH-5 headphone amp,  another Eleven XIAUDIO Audio amp, Mytek Manhattan II DAC, Woo Audio WA-8 portable tube amp, Lotoo PAW Gold Diana Edition portable music players, JPS Labs cabling, and more.

Hope to see some of you there! 
http://www.canjamglobal.com/rmaf2017
http://www.audiofest.net


----------



## AbyssHeadphones

hold


----------



## mulder01

jlbrach said:


> you sure are a fickle listener lol....i cant wait for your next detour



Looking at your signature, I bet your favorite changes a bit too.  If there was a clear winner, you'd only own one headphone, right?

DK, have you ordered your phi and the wait is that long?  Or are you just placing your order in January?


----------



## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> Looking at your signature, I bet your favorite changes a bit too.  If there was a clear winner, you'd only own one headphone, right?
> 
> DK, have you ordered your phi and the wait is that long?  Or are you just placing your order in January?



I was told by Joe that I was put on a list. 

I'll be paying for it around January along with sending in my Abyss and getting the drivers upgraded.


----------



## jlbrach

mulder01 said:


> Looking at your signature, I bet your favorite changes a bit too.  If there was a clear winner, you'd only own one headphone, right?
> 
> DK, have you ordered your phi and the wait is that long?  Or are you just placing your order in January?



actually the very reason I have several HP's is precisely so that I can make an educated judgment....I think all of the high end HP's are outstanding and I can understand people preferring any of them..that said after hearing and living with all of them other than the Stax I can say quite strongly that I think the Phi is the best I have heard...I do always reserve the right to change my mind lol


----------



## Blitzula

Alright, over the last week or so I've read this whole thread. I've been listening to a Utopia the last couple of days and would like to compare to the Abyss before deciding which to keep.

It's been awhile since the Phi came out, and opinions can evolve one way or the other.

Big question for those who have had or heard both...did you lose any fun or emotion factor at all with the Phi vs the original? Asking outside of sonic improvements; fun and emotion wise...is the Phi worse, the same, or better?

Yoga, you and I seem to listen for the same reasons and I've enjoyed your posts...hoping you'll chime in: ).


----------



## Blitzula

Just to be clear...asking about the original Abyss vs the Phi.


----------



## mulder01

Do you have both the original abyss + utopia and just want to know if you'll lose anything with the upgrade?


----------



## Blitzula

Hey Mulder...I don't currently have an Abyss.

I'm going to buy either the original Abyss or the Phi. I'd like to know how the old Abyss compares as far as fun and emotion to the Phi: Less, same, or more. Sonic improvements are completely unimportant in that comparison for me.

Hope that clarifies, I muddied the waters in my question by bringing up the Focal.


----------



## jlbrach

the Phi is better and just as much fun....


----------



## Thaudiophile

jlbrach said:


> the Phi is better and just as much fun....


How does Phi's resolution and detail retrieval compare to utopia's?


----------



## jlbrach

to my ears the Phi is incredibly detailed....i cant pass judgment as to whether it is more detailed than the utopia but lets just say whatever difference there is would be minor...that said the Phi has a far wider soundstage and better bass....


----------



## FLTWS (Oct 8, 2017)

rdreyer said:


> I have a large head (the SR-009 and HD800 clamp very painfully), and Joe had some great solutions that did not involve surgery
> The AB-1266 (now Phi) are now the most comfortable headphones I own (and tried). Renaud



I'm new to this thread and that's good to know as I favor non-surgical approaches whenever possible.

I auditioned the original 1266 a year ago (not the "lite" version) for a week in-home. I spent a lot of time wrestling with correct fit. The conclusions I came to at that time bugged me later because I wasn't sure if I was listening to it properly set up on my noggin/ears or not and I always felt it was tighter than the design called for to fit correctly. The sound also did not fit the standard headphone presentation of any other phone I have auditioned so I was thrown off listening balance right out of the starting gate. In the interim I've done some evaluations of a variety of phones (most recently the Sonoma) and even considered a return to Stax of which I owned 2 of their TOTL models a looong time ago. But I think my listening tastes and priorities have changed over the years regarding electrostats. I've investigated most (but certainly not all) of the top contenders in headphonedom but I'm thinking I'll re-visit the Abyss with the Phi's next month or the following.

I just found this thread after a search which started me around page 360 and I am only at 376 so I've got some more reading to do. But I do have a question; the current 1266 lineup is "Lite", "Deluxe", and "Complete". It appears the actual phone is identical in all 3; just the cabling and accessories vary.

Has anyone had an opportunity to evaluate / compare the JPS cables that come with the "Deluxe" versus the one that comes with the "Complete"?

Thanks.

Edit: I did read one posters thoughts on both cables some pages back.
Edit: just searched this thread under the word "superconductor", plenty of post but little consensus. If I like it enough to buy (1266 that is), I'll start stock and figure a way to get a listen to the SC after the fact.


----------



## mulder01 (Sep 30, 2017)

Yeah originally all Abyss were sold in the current "deluxe" config (but without the name).  But many people complained that they didn't want a fancy leather bag and stand etc and a lot of people didn't need the dual 3 pin XLRs because not that many people use dual mono block headphone amps.  So then they released the lite version minus the bag and stand and with a 4pin xlr instead of 2x 3 pin and shaved $1000 off the price for people who wanted a more minimal option.  Then they released the superconductor headphone cable for people wanting to upgrade the stock cable (already a premium cable matched to the headphone).  Originally this was only for sale as a separate item, but now they have added it to a new retail package.  I'm assuming if people bought the abyss and planned on shooting for the top cable straight away, then why pay for the stock cables and never use them, so then there was the "complete" bundle with superconductor cables.

Same headphone though.

I briefly auditioned the superconductor cable in store when it was first released and THOUGHT I heard an improvement but I had very little time with them and the guy at the shop was talking them up telling me what differences they make etc so maybe there was some expectation bias too... But I didn't take the audition very seriously as that 1.8m set sells for a tad under $4kAUD and I wasn't prepared to hand over that sort of money.


---
Also you can probably skip about the first 50 pages of this thread, as it is just people complaining how they can't be worth the money even though they haven't heard them...


----------



## FLTWS (Oct 1, 2017)

mulder01 said:


> Yeah originally all Abyss were sold in the current "deluxe" config (but without the name).  But many people complained that they didn't want a fancy leather bag and stand etc and a lot of people didn't need the dual 3 pin XLRs because not that many people use dual mono block headphone amps.  So then they released the lite version minus the bag and stand and with a 4pin xlr instead of 2x 3 pin and shaved $1000 off the price for people who wanted a more minimal option.  Then they released the superconductor headphone cable for people wanting to upgrade the stock cable (already a premium cable matched to the headphone).  Originally this was only for sale as a separate item, but now they have added it to a new retail package.  I'm assuming if people bought the abyss and planned on shooting for the top cable straight away, then why pay for the stock cables and never use them, so then there was the "complete" bundle with superconductor cables.
> 
> Same headphone though.
> 
> ...



LOL on the whiners comment, They come free of charge with every release of non-budget equipment.

Thank you, that pretty much answers everything for me. As I like 3 meter lengths for all my HP cables both stock and after market the price of the SC for me would be around $3,400 US.

The bag and stand are 2 items I wouldn't need; my phones are all shut-ins and never leave the house. The stand looks like it could accelerate the stretch on the headband and I would be looking to lay them down. I could fabricate a box with lid to do that and keep any airborne stuff off of them.

I would want the stock cable (dual 3 Pin) as my base line, after all this is what the designer thinks is how it should sound, and then first consider an after market one from my go to supplier.

A very small number of posters here and an outside reviewer or two have listening bias's that align reasonably well with my own so I feel I should revisit the Abyss. Not necessarily because it has been promoted to Phi status but to see if I can get a better handle on the mechanical / physical aspects of integrating it with my head to give it a more fair listen than my first time around a year ago. Thank goodness for the Cable Company and their rental program.


----------



## mulder01

If you decide the fit is the only issue and you end up wanting a pair, hit up Joe and he can make modifications to the headband to better suit your needs.

I will point out that dual 3 pin xlrs are only on the deluxe version though - lite has 1x 4 pin


----------



## FLTWS

mulder01 said:


> If you decide the fit is the only issue and you end up wanting a pair, hit up Joe and he can make modifications to the headband to better suit your needs.
> 
> I will point out that dual 3 pin xlrs are only on the deluxe version though - lite has 1x 4 pin



Yes, if I buy it would be the delux. Thanks


----------



## biscottino

A couple of months ago I took a ab1266 used by Pierre Paya in France.
I haven't used the headset for about a month because of the heat, but then just tested left driver didn't work.
I use a Viva Egoista and alternatively a Burmester 991 Rondo' through your headphone jack.
Trying and trying again, I realized that by turning up the volume the headset came back to work, and sounding very well for many hours.
A friend of mine who writes on this forum has had a similar problem and you have replaced the driver, someone had a similar problem?
I sent an email to abyss and I await their reply about it...


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Owners of Egoista tend to have problems. This discussion has already taken place, if interested in reminiscing...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-276#post-12587726


----------



## biscottino

Joe Skubinski said:


> Owners of Egoista tend to have problems. This discussion has already taken place, if interested in reminiscing...
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-276#post-12587726




hmm, you think that Abyss+Egoista  it's not a good combination of reliability?
I also use Lcd4, Focal Utopia and a Sony mdr z1r, playing at normal volume and with this headset I have no problems.


----------



## jlbrach (Oct 3, 2017)

I absolutely love my Phi and am fortunate enough to be able to use them with my dave/blu2 combo.....i had pretty much retired my Moon 430 and been using the dave/blu2 combo directly into the Phi with wonderful results but i had a nagging feeling that the addition of the blu2 which i am told results in 3DB less output has left me possibly needing for more power with the Phi..I know the Phi is a bit more efficient than the original abyss but for whatever reason i have found it to be among the more power hungry HP's ...much more so than the HE1000 V2 and of course the Utopia...kind of akin to the LCD-4's....I finally decided to take the 430 out of mothballs and hook it up and give it a listen with the dave/blu2 and at least on a preliminary basis i like what i heard....you do have some loss of transparency but damn the sound opens up and is bigger,more authority...more grunt.....sadly there is no free lunch and you have to make sacrifices either way and i guess that will be the case until we see the rumored amps that chord is working on to pair with the dave/blu2 without loss of transparency


----------



## Joe Skubinski

biscottino said:


> hmm, you think that Abyss+Egoista  it's not a good combination of reliability?
> I also use Lcd4, Focal Utopia and a Sony mdr z1r, playing at normal volume and with this headset I have no problems.



As was said in the past, that much power on tap into the AB-1266 low impedance comes with a need for restraint and understanding your system. However, since we have not yet seen your headphone this is all purely speculation. If you feel you have a problem we can provide return information via email to inspect and test your headphone and any mating cables.


----------



## biscottino

Joe Skubinski said:


> As was said in the past, that much power on tap into the AB-1266 low impedance comes with a need for restraint and understanding your system. However, since we have not yet seen your headphone this is all purely speculation. If you feel you have a problem we can provide return information via email to inspect and test your headphone and any mating cables.



Hi Joe, nice to read it, i send you a mail.
As already mentioned in Pierre Paya, thanks for your patience, I would prefer the headset to be thoroughly tested.
 Here in Naples this summer has been very hot, and I did not use the headset for over a month, I found a vjays and sony wm1a perfect, but now with the cool I could not wait to play with the Abyss + Viva combo. 
 The first start has highlighted the problem with the left driver, I did various tests with the Burmester 991, which has a great headphone output and Abyss is partitioned, it seemed quite strange. 
The next few days the question was the same.


----------



## biscottino

jlbrach said:


> I absolutely love my Phi and am fortunate enough to be able to use them with my dave/blu2 combo.....i had pretty much retired my Moon 430 and been using the dave/blu2 combo directly into the Phi with wonderful results but i had a nagging feeling that the addition of the blu2 which i am told results in 3DB less output has left me possibly needing for more power with the Phi..I know the Phi is a bit more efficient than the original abyss but for whatever reason i have found it to be among the more power hungry HP's ...much more so than the HE1000 V2 and of course the Utopia...kind of akin to the LCD-4's....I finally decided to take the 430 out of mothballs and hook it up and give it a listen with the dave/blu2 and at least on a preliminary basis i like what i heard....you do have some loss of transparency but damn the sound opens up and is bigger,more authority...more grunt.....sadly there is no free lunch and you have to make sacrifices either way and i guess that will be the case until we see the rumored amps that chord is working on to pair with the dave/blu2 without loss of transparency



I use Abyss and Lcd4 with Viva Egoista, and with Abyss I find perfect 11 hours, while with Lcd4 I pass abundantly 13/14 hours. I have the feeling that the 200 ohms of Lcd4 are for the Viva Egoista something very heavy.
Nik had used Abyss with Chord Dave direct and considered him very good but with Headtrip the Abyss put the turbo. I think Abyss deserve the best possible amplification.


----------



## jlbrach

i believe if i am not mistaken the headtrip amp spoken of in the review was 15K.....i am tapped out after the blu2 purchase so the 430 will have to do lol..


----------



## biscottino

jlbrach said:


> believe if i am not mistaken the headtrip amp spoken of in the review was 15K.....i am tapped out after the blu2 purchase so the 430 will have to do lol..



I think it's about 7000$, I do not like solid-state amplifiers, I prefer valves, but surely Wells Audio is an important choice.


----------



## jlbrach

the one referenced in the audio bacon review is 15K


----------



## biscottino

honestly, I would spend so much money just for a valve amplifier, I would feel more quiet


----------



## mulder01

jlbrach said:


> the one referenced in the audio bacon review is 15K


Thissa one?  It says $7k
https://audiobacon.net/2015/12/14/ultra-high-end-full-size-open-headphone-shootout/
The Wells Audio site says $7k too


----------



## urez

mulder01 said:


> Thissa one?  It says $7k
> https://audiobacon.net/2015/12/14/ultra-high-end-full-size-open-headphone-shootout/
> The Wells Audio site says $7k too


Make sure what are you talking about


----------



## The Piper

urez said:


> Make sure what are you talking about


----------



## The Piper

The Headtrip headphone amplifier is $7000.00 and the Headtrip Reference will be $15000.00. We have shown a prototype of the Headtrip Reference at the last Axpona Show and the LA Head-Fi show. We are projecting the Reference as well as the Headtrip Reference monoblocks to be in production the beginning of 2018.


----------



## mulder01

Headtrip reference and headtrip reference monoblocks are different products?  The monoblocks are a step above again?


----------



## jlbrach

Nope the one in the Phi review,make sure what you are talking about!!!!  I am not normally rude but am just speaking as you did


----------



## The Piper

mulder01 said:


> Headtrip reference and headtrip reference monoblocks are different products?  The monoblocks are a step above again?


----------



## The Piper

I built a custom pair of Headtrip Reference monoblocks at the request of a customer in Australia. Once the design work was done on them I felt there was no reason to keep me from putting them into production. Below is a picture of those monoblocks.


----------



## mulder01

jlbrach said:


> Nope the one in the Phi review,make sure what you are talking about!!!!  I am not normally rude but am just speaking as you did



Well, ok to clear up I was talking about the Headtrip which is $7000.  Which also happens to be reviewed on Audio Bacon at $7000.  I Googled "Wells Audio Headtrip Audio Bacon" and that's what came up.  Can't blame me for that.

There is also the unreleased Headtrip REFERENCE which will be $15000 but I don't remember anyone saying "Headtrip reference", just "Headtrip"

At the end of the day though, we are all just splitting hairs.  Who really cares who worded what as what and we all misinterpreted eachother.  Now we all know there is a $7k version and a $15k version.  And a monoblock version by the look of it too... ($30k I'm guessing?)


----------



## manzano804

Hy guys , can someone please tell me where in Chicago i can audition a Phi ? Thanks.


----------



## The Piper

mulder01 said:


> Well, ok to clear up I was talking about the Headtrip which is $7000.  Which also happens to be reviewed on Audio Bacon at $7000.  I Googled "Wells Audio Headtrip Audio Bacon" and that's what came up.  Can't blame me for that.
> 
> There is also the unreleased Headtrip REFERENCE which will be $15000 but I don't remember anyone saying "Headtrip reference", just "Headtrip"
> 
> At the end of the day though, we are all just splitting hairs.  Who really cares who worded what as what and we all misinterpreted eachother.  Now we all know there is a $7k version and a $15k version.  And a monoblock version by the look of it too... ($30k I'm guessing?)


Mulder,

  I agree, this nothing to get excited about. In the end it's about getting the correct info and that is all. Let's avoid the typical forum drama and just enjoy the hobby as it is meant to be. BTW, you are right on the mark for the price of the monos but the new design, when available, will be better looking in my opinion. The plan is to show the production monos and the Reference as a world premiere at the Axpona Show in April.


----------



## mulder01

The Piper said:


> the new design, when available, will be better looking in my opinion. The plan is to show the production monos and the Reference as a world premiere at the Axpona Show in April.



Don't get rid of the VU meters though!  Not enough amps have them IMO


----------



## The Piper

mulder01 said:


> Don't get rid of the VU meters though!  Not enough amps have them IMO


I love the meters and we try very hard to incorporate them into most of our products. Unfortunately on most of the headphone amps we can't get bothe the meter and a volume control on the faceplate together. The monos are different because they are true mono amplifiers without volume controls (they need a preamp) we have the room to include the meters. I thought that they came out rather stunning and sexy looking.


----------



## urez

The Piper said:


> I love the meters and we try very hard to incorporate them into most of our products. Unfortunately on most of the headphone amps we can't get bothe the meter and a volume control on the faceplate together. The monos are different because they are true mono amplifiers without volume controls (they need a preamp) we have the room to include the meters. I thought that they came out rather stunning and sexy looking.


Make it clear to understand please, it's need to include preamp between dac and HT monoblocks ?


----------



## The Piper

urez said:


> Make it clear to understand please, it's need to include preamp between dac and HT monoblocks ?


Yes, the monoblocks will need a preamp between the sources and the monoblocks. The customer can choose his own preamp (perhaps a tube linestage to go with the solid state monos would be interesting) or I may design something to go with them.


----------



## mulder01

I suppose if your dac has a volume control, that would work instead of a pre amp too, right?  If I remember correctly, that's what isquirrel is doing with his woo monoblock amps (volume knob bypassed)


----------



## The Piper

mulder01 said:


> I suppose if your dac has a volume control, that would work instead of a pre amp too, right?  If I remember correctly, that's what isquirrel is doing with his woo monoblock amps (volume knob bypassed)


Yes, that should suffice. Although having the freedom to add the tube influence is a great option to have. Those consumers that will not consider amplification other than tube now would have something new for consideration. Before sending the custom Reference monoblocks to their new home I was able to live with them for a couple of weeks using a tube preamp and the experience was different and quite amazing.


----------



## jlbrach

listening to oliver nelson the blues and abstract truth through tidal and roon into dave/blue2 and a pair of Phi's....this is an expensive hobby to be sure but if your passion is music it is sublime!


----------



## Blitzula

For the Abyss owners...do each of these statements make sense to you? Been speaking with someone about the Abyss Phi.

"A headphone amp isn't optional, you *literally (emphasis added) *will not be able to hear the headphones without one. "

"Because of their specialized drivers, which happen to have very low efficiency, most headphone amplifiers can't drive them. The requirements for proper operation are from *1000 to 4000mW (emphasis added)*, which puts them in rather an exclusive range of headphone amplifiers."

I've read the whole thread, so I follow the need for a high quality headphone amp...the literally part surprised me and I was interested in others' thoughts about the power requirements as well.


----------



## jlbrach

no it is not correct,my chord dave/blu2 drives it reasonably well...my moon 430 adds some grunt to it but it is no more difficult to drive than is the LCD-4


----------



## Blitzula

Thanks...how about the "literally" can't be heard without a headphone amp?


----------



## jlbrach

i dont know what you mean without a headphone amp....sure aint gonna work with your phone ....as i said the chord dave drives it reasonably well...the moon 430 with more authority


----------



## Blitzula

"Without a headphone amp" would mean-according to the source-_you literally can't hear anything without one_. Not underpowered, no sound at all. So you couldn't play out of a PC, for example. 

Would you agree with that or is it hyperbole?


----------



## jlbrach

i cant believe you would hear absolutely nothing out of a phone or computer but certainly you wouldnt listen to it that way


----------



## Blitzula

Thanks for the thoughts


----------



## mulder01

lol don't know where you found those gems... 

you literally need a headphone amplifier in the sense that you literally need a speaker amplifier or you can't listen to speakers - they have to plug into something... they are not powered by magic elves...

you don't NEED 1-4 watts of power but a lot of people believe the more power available the better.  I use my abyss straight out of my lotoo paw gold diana and it sounds fine.  It doesn't do hard hitting bass at high volumes, but it's fine at normal volumes.  Having said that, most music players and phones etc. don't put out as much power as this player so an additional amp would be needed.  Doesn't have to be desktop - there are some smaller amps out there by ifi and a few others with plenty of balls if you want portable.  On the other end of the scale, some people prefer to run their abyss out of a speaker amp because they like the sound of a particular design.  I mean, you can buy an amp for $99 from schiit audio and that will do over 1000mw into the abyss.  Most people don't want to power their $5000 headphones from a $99 amp, but it'll work... 

Do you not have a chance to listen to any gear before purchasing?


----------



## Blitzula

Those gems came from a dealer selling the Abyss. The dealer site is known and is far as I'm aware respected on Head-Fi. 

I wanted to see what you all thought, the reactions are about what I expected.

I can audition in a store at one location I'm aware of in the Bay Area. But I'd really like to have the headphones for a week before deciding. It's been my experience that it takes a number of days with different types of music and recordings to fully understand the technical and emotional nuances of a set. An audition of an hour or less is just too little.

So it's tricky when you'd like a longer audition; most of the Abyss dealers charge a 15-20% restocking fee, prohibitive at this price range.


----------



## mulder01

I think the differences between headphones are pretty significant.  I reckon you could pick a headphone you like in store, but maybe your ideal amp / dac combo might be a bit harder.


----------



## bigfatpaulie (Oct 12, 2017)

Blitzula said:


> For the Abyss owners...do each of these statements make sense to you? Been speaking with someone about the Abyss Phi.
> 
> "A headphone amp isn't optional, you *literally (emphasis added) *will not be able to hear the headphones without one. "
> 
> ...




To answer your two questions:

1) Not true.  This person has literally (emphasis added) has no idea what they are talking about.

2) Not true.  This person has literally (emphasis added) has no idea what they are talking about.

And my personal 2 cents: Stop talking to this person because they literally (emphasis added) have no idea what they are talking about.


----------



## Sonic77

Probably a salesman trying to get an extra sale of an amp on top of the potential Abyss headphone sale.




Blitzula said:


> For the Abyss owners...do each of these statements make sense to you? Been speaking with someone about the Abyss Phi.
> 
> "A headphone amp isn't optional, you *literally (emphasis added) *will not be able to hear the headphones without one. "
> 
> ...


----------



## mulder01

Well... you need to run them from something of reasonable quality I suppose.  Otherwise why are you spending $5k on audio gear... Just don't let them get you too carried away.  Getting carried away is a process that you need to go through on your own accord.


----------



## FLTWS

mulder01 said:


> Well... you need to run them from something of reasonable quality I suppose.  Otherwise why are you spending $5k on audio gear... Just don't let them get you too carried away.  Getting carried away is a process that you need to go through on your own accord.



LOL!


----------



## Articnoise

The requirements of 1-4 watt for proper driving Abyss is very reasonable and I have no idea why anyone would object to it. It’s a low efficiency headphone.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

I think the objection comes from the sales person saying you "literally" can't hear them without an amp like that.  No one is questioning if the Abyss scale with better gear, this was a case of it simply won't make a sound with anything less than.


----------



## FLTWS

Sounds like a classic case of up-selling to me, a solid technique to apply to audiophiles where their gear is concerned as well as prospective bridegrooms shopping for engagement rings.


----------



## Articnoise

The first statement below is not correct.

_"A headphone amp isn't optional, you literally (emphasis added) will not be able to hear the headphones without one. "_

The second statement below I find vary sensible. I can only speculate how the question was original put, but from the response I guess that it was in line with: What’s the power requirements for proper driving of Abyss? Or something like that. To inform a customer that the Abyss is a low efficiency headphone is not up-selling, not to me.

_"Because of their specialized drivers, which happen to have very low efficiency, most headphone amplifiers can't drive them. The requirements for proper operation are from 1000 to 4000mW (emphasis added), which puts them in rather an exclusive range of headphone amplifiers."_


----------



## phase0 (Oct 14, 2017)

Greetings! Following RMAF I decided to join the Abyss Phi camp... I just sold my Focal Utopia. I always felt the Utopia were a little too light on the bottom. I know the Abyss can deliver so I'm excited. However being so expensive I'm also questioning my sanity...


----------



## jlbrach

we all question sanity in this hobby...as one who owns both the Phi and the Utopia I will tell you I think the Phi is far better..I keep the Utopia because of its efficiency for certain occasions


----------



## mulder01

phase0 said:


> Greetings! Following RMAF I decided to join the Abyss Phi camp... I just sold my Focal Utopia. I always felt the Utopia were a little too light on the bottom. I know the Abyss can deliver so I'm excited. However being so expensive I'm also questioning my sanity...



Most audiophiles are at least a little bit insane.  They are a great headphone my friend, you already have the right avatar


----------



## draytonklammer

Can't wait for my Phi upgrade to come someday. 

Not sure when yet but it'll be exciting.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Got to hear the Phi today driven by the most excellent Wells Audio Enigma and boy did I enjoy what I heard. The mids/treble refinements were apparent right away. Very nice headphones...hoping to get a pair to review in a more quiet setting at home. Very impressive combination of headphones/amplifier!


----------



## jlbrach

told you lol.....really special


----------



## protoss

MacedonianHero said:


> Got to hear the Phi today driven by the most excellent Wells Audio Enigma and boy did I enjoy what I heard. The mids/treble refinements were apparent right away. Very nice headphones...hoping to get a pair to review in a more quiet setting at home. Very impressive combination of headphones/amplifier!



I also got to listen to the Phi. I think this is my favorite Non-Vintage headphone! Yikes and that speaks volume to me ... I am very impress by it. 

The only cons were the unusual ear-pads placements and adjustments and just having it float in the ears part. beside that A+


----------



## draytonklammer

MacedonianHero said:


> Got to hear the Phi today driven by the most excellent Wells Audio Enigma and boy did I enjoy what I heard. The mids/treble refinements were apparent right away. Very nice headphones...hoping to get a pair to review in a more quiet setting at home. Very impressive combination of headphones/amplifier!



Maybe we will turn you into a believer after all


----------



## isquirrel

For once its the only Headphone I have been listening to consistenly for weeks now. I am actually buying music and thinking how good will this sound on the Phi. I have 400+ hours on mine now and wow they sound great. Very different from when they were new. 

The new Blade Runner Soundtrack by Hans Zimmer is getting a lot of play as is the Snowden Soundtrack not to mention Atomic Blonde Movie Soundtrack and for those of us old enough to remember the 80's.


----------



## draytonklammer

The one thing I wish I knew before upgrading was how this new driver compares (technology and design-wise) to my current Abyss.


----------



## mulder01

Jude talks about it a little here at 24:38.  Dunno if that's what you're after


----------



## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> Jude talks about it a little here at 24:38.  Dunno if that's what you're after




Thanks for that.
That helps me a fair amount. Nothing I've read really got that close in terms of explaining what was changed. For $1,500 I am still somewhat convincing my brain, but I know I won't be able to live without it when my name is called...


----------



## phase0

Beolab said:


> I have felt they needed like 150++ hours burn-in to let loose the fast transients , air , deep soundstage and the famous visceral sound (dynamic low bass breath effect) that has become the signature stamp for the Abyss during the years.





isquirrel said:


> Mine have been on 12 hour daily burn in cycles. They are now just over the 300 hour mark and what a difference some significant time has made to the sound! The bass is much deeper and better defined, the treble has improved and the sibilance on all vocals has pretty much disappeared except for some tracks that exhibit natural sibilance. The soundstage has widened and the depth has increased nicely.



I was searching if there is any consensus on burn-in times for the Abyss Phi. Looks like somewhere between 150-300 hrs. One thing I was curious about isquirrel is why only a 12 hour daily cycle vs plugging in 24x7 for a week or two?


----------



## isquirrel

phase0 said:


> I was searching if there is any consensus on burn-in times for the Abyss Phi. Looks like somewhere between 150-300 hrs. One thing I was curious about isquirrel is why only a 12 hour daily cycle vs plugging in 24x7 for a week or two?


Because I am running valves.


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> For $1,500 I am still somewhat convincing my brain, but I know I won't be able to live without it when my name is called...



I don't think $1500 is unreasonable considering you are pretty much getting a new headphone - they don't replace the cable or the headband (which IMO is a fraction of the overall cost), but they do replace the main part of the headphone where all the expensive tech is for a third of the price of the new headphones.  

Only reason I haven't done it yet is because I promised myself never to spend big $ on audio gear I haven't heard.  Especially when I am trading in something that I already love - if it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?  Though I've thought about pulling the trigger a number of times... Now that I've heard someone say that they preferred the Diana to the Phi, and hearing that the technology that goes into the Phi was the tech developed for the Diana, I'm going to wait and see how much I like Diana first I think.  Would be kinda nice if I could be happy to make the switch and all my desktop gear became obsolete.  I'm fairly doubtful that's how it'll pan out, but I have been surprised by gear a number of times before.


----------



## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> I don't think $1500 is unreasonable considering you are pretty much getting a new headphone - they don't replace the cable or the headband (which IMO is a fraction of the overall cost), but they do replace the main part of the headphone where all the expensive tech is for a third of the price of the new headphones.
> 
> Only reason I haven't done it yet is because I promised myself never to spend big $ on audio gear I haven't heard.  Especially when I am trading in something that I already love - if it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?  Though I've thought about pulling the trigger a number of times... Now that I've heard someone say that they preferred the Diana to the Phi, and hearing that the technology that goes into the Phi was the tech developed for the Diana, I'm going to wait and see how much I like Diana first I think.  Would be kinda nice if I could be happy to make the switch and all my desktop gear became obsolete.  I'm fairly doubtful that's how it'll pan out, but I have been surprised by gear a number of times before.



You'll have to let me know if you try one.

It's between a Phi upgrade and Diana in black for me right now.
I have the funds, just no idea which. My guess is I will go for the Phi though seeing as though it's a direct upgrade to my favorite headphone ever.


----------



## mulder01

Yeah Phi seems like the logical next step, but I remain curious about how far behind Diana is, or rather if it's a step to the side more so than a step backwards.  Time will tell.


----------



## thunder 99

Hi guys I have a LCD-4. Was considering adding Abyss 1266 phi's to the inventory. I havent come across a reasonable review of the two. Add to the mix Susvarna has rave reviews as well. I really enjoy the soundstage, visceral presentation of the LCD-4 with the great texture in mids and bass. Am wondering whether someone is able to say what the differences are between the 3 headphones or is able to point to a review? Many thanks. Not really considering the Utopias as I felt the soundstage a bit too narrow which really suffocated me a bit haha.


----------



## jlbrach

i havent heard the susvara ....to me the lcd-4 and Phi are the 2 best HP's available....both great bass...Phi has a larger soundstage and is a bit more transparent....the LCD-4s are heavy but easier to wear than the Phi's....both are about the same in terms of efficiency,you cant go wrong with either...i give a slight edge to the Phi


----------



## thunder 99

So how do the phis differ from lcds


----------



## draytonklammer

thunder 99 said:


> So how do the phis differ from lcds



I sold my LCD-4, LCD-3, and LCD-X for the original Abyss.
That's all I am saying personally.

I am now selling my Utopia and upgrading to the Phi soon.


----------



## mulder01

I found the LCD4 to be good, but quite veiled by comparison.  I feel like if I got some pieces of cloth and scrunched them up and put them in the earcups of the Abyss, I would have an LCD-4.  A lot of people say they like their laid back sound, and I don't like an aggressive sound either, but I think the LCD4 was laid back to the point where you lose sight of why you are buying high end headphones. 

Having said that, I have quite a warm sounding amp (solid state, but warm) and I have found the abyss to be even easier to listen to off tubes all the way through to a bit fatiguing on brighter gear.  Though never as relaxed as an LCD4 and never as fatiguing as a HD800.  If that makes sense.  I have the original version of the abyss and the phi is said to be more sensitive to the upstream components again, so I imagine you could fine tune it to your liking fairly well.


----------



## thunder 99

Thanks for the really helpful replies.
I find LCD4s really great as my system can resolve a lot of micro and macro details on the LCD4s and I like its engaging but laid back character which allows me to listen comfortable for a looong time. But I can also see how it can sound veiled as my previous system produced that quality of sound. If a headphone ups the resolution whilst preserving soundstage, being a bit sharper wouldnt be a bad thing IMHO. The other thing I really like about the LCD4s is the texture of mids and low even upper mids. The bass is beautiful as well. How does the Abyss compare in this specific regard?


----------



## m17xr2b

I find the Abyss more of an event to listen to to the point where I'm excited just before using it. The LCD-4 is a great headphone but I'm using it for gaming, movies or casual listening. The Abyss has better bass than the LCD-4 in quality and quantity.


----------



## jlbrach

the Phi is the only HP I have ever listened to that has a live feel to them....the closest thing I have ever heard to a loudspeaker system.....


----------



## ufospls2

jlbrach said:


> i havent heard the susvara ....to me the lcd-4 and Phi are the 2 best HP's available....both great bass...Phi has a larger soundstage and is a bit more transparent....the LCD-4s are heavy but easier to wear than the Phi's....both are about the same in terms of efficiency,you cant go wrong with either...i give a slight edge to the Phi



I'd agree with this. I love my LCD-4, but have to give a slight edge to the Phi as well.


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## thunder 99 (Oct 19, 2017)

Sounds like in terms of the presentation, LCD4s because they are a bit more laid back, offer more texture (am i right?) I feel I can listen to them the entire day. They are not the most transparent headphones thoigh with my system they are still very very resolving and the impact they hit you with is to die for yet they can also be subtle and nuanced and polite and gentle. Would I be right in saying the Abyss sounds a bit more focused/sharpened? And therefore may not sound that textured. Also would you guys say that the abyss is marginally better or that it offers a very different sound in terms of presentation which may make it worth buying as well as having the LCD4s? I know that is something that can only be decided on an individual basis, but this is more a question for ppl owing both headphones ... do you guys find yourself listening to both headphones or the abyss mostly (whether it's because of different presentations or whether abyss is much better than the lcd4). Thanks again with the very helpful replies.


----------



## jlbrach

at the very high end there is no best...it is subjective....i can say the phi or LCD-4 is better than the focal elear but cannot assert they are better than the Utopia...i cannot tell you the Phi is BETTER than the LCD-4 only that I prefer it but still love listening to the LCD-4...kind of like saying you like the top of the line mercedes better than BMW etc....listen for yourself and decide,nobody here can answer the question with authority


----------



## thunder 99

I think your right. I felt it came down to individual choices as well. Just wondering though whether anyone had bought an abyss and didnt listen to the lcd4s after that. Just asked out of curiosity.


----------



## Beolab

The LCD-4 is more a comfy Jaguar XJR or an older Bentely vs the Phi is a few levels above sound technically speaking, to make it short.


----------



## Sonic77

I'm glad you guys had this discussion because I was thinking about the LCD-4's as my next purchase, now I'm looking at upgrading the cable to the Abyss Phi.


----------



## draytonklammer

Beolab said:


> The LCD-4 is more a comfy Jaguar XJR or an older Bentely vs the Phi is a few levels above sound technically speaking, to make it short.



I agree with this.

The Phi is another level honestly.


----------



## phase0

Yea FWIW I heard the LCD 4 and MX4 at RMAF, they're very good and I love the Audeze sound. I still went with the Phi (and partially because I already have the XC). I'd love to have a Susvara too if I could. Absolutely loved the WA33 combo. I think the Phi will have better and harder hitting bass. The Susvara was more relaxed and reminded me more of the Electrostats. Since I am only getting one thing at this level I opted for the Phi... hoping the wait isn't too much longer.


----------



## seamon

I am interested in the difference between the Phi and LCD 4 as well. I own a pair of LCD 4 and feel that its Treble is the maximum I can handle, any brighter and it'll be too fatiguing for me.
So, I was wondering how much brighter is the Phi over the LCD 4.


----------



## mulder01 (Oct 20, 2017)

thunder 99 said:


> Sounds like in terms of the presentation, LCD4s because they are a bit more laid back, offer more texture (am i right?) I feel I can listen to them the entire day. They are not the most transparent headphones thoigh with my system they are still very very resolving and the impact they hit you with is to die for yet they can also be subtle and nuanced and polite and gentle. Would I be right in saying the Abyss sounds a bit more focused/sharpened? And therefore may not sound that textured. Also would you guys say that the abyss is marginally better or that it offers a very different sound in terms of presentation which may make it worth buying as well as having the LCD4s? I know that is something that can only be decided on an individual basis, but this is more a question for ppl owing both headphones ... do you guys find yourself listening to both headphones or the abyss mostly (whether it's because of different presentations or whether abyss is much better than the lcd4). Thanks again with the very helpful replies.




On top of things like subjective preferences and differences of opinion, a question like "how is the texture" will also be down to a matter of interpretation... Going to be nearly impossible to get a helpful answer on that one.


----------



## mulder01

Look, I can see why people buy the LCD4 - Audeze has headphones in a bunch of different price ranges and cater for many different tastes.  So for this reason, they have a lot of customers in the mid-high end market.  So naturally, down the track, when people get the upgrade itch, they look for the next model up - the 4's - which they know will fit well, because it's the same fit they've already got, and they can be fairly sure they're going to like the sound of them, because they've liked Audeze's products in the past, and they've they been received reasonably well by the online community.  Most people don't live in a location where top tier headphones are easily accessible to listen to, so they go for the safe bet.

Then you have the Abyss.  No other products, made by a company that primarily makes cables, looks weird as crap, costs more, finicky to get the right fit, completely different to every other product on the market.  Now, given that information, I only see 2 possible explanations as to why people buy the Abyss - either we are all insane (yes, probably at least a little bit - you have to be in this hobby), or the sound is _that good_ that it overcomes, not only all the points mentioned above, but also pushes through all the hype surrounding products like the LCD4 and utopia and stands on it's own.


----------



## mulder01

seamon said:


> I am interested in the difference between the Phi and LCD 4 as well. I own a pair of LCD 4 and feel that its Treble is the maximum I can handle, any brighter and it'll be too fatiguing for me.
> So, I was wondering how much brighter is the Phi over the LCD 4.



Is there a darker pair of headphones than the LCD4?


----------



## up late

yes, the stax sr-007 to my ears


----------



## up late

draytonklammer said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> The Phi is another level honestly.



so you've heard the phi?


----------



## seamon

mulder01 said:


> Is there a darker pair of headphones than the LCD4?


HD650, LCD 3, LCD 2


----------



## Articnoise

Abyss is faster and punchier, it also have less midrange and bass bloom. LCD 4 is a bit more refined with less treble and treble grain, but Abyss has a bit more transparency and clarity. I have not heard the Abyss Phi and from the impressions I have read it could be great, especially the less “U-shaped” and more refined sound.


----------



## Xecuter

LCD-4 100ohm had better treble resolution than the 200ohm IMO, however I still think the resolution of the LCD-4 is fairly poor even compared to sub 1k headphones. I have heard a few variants and they all sound slightly different as well, so I never took my chances with the Audeze lottery.
I don't really think the LCD-4 is even on the same level as the original Abyss (excusing ergonomics). I haven't heard the phi to comment.

I also found the Susvara fairly unremarkable (heard it with wa33 - which is a freaking amazing amplifier). I think a more extended audition may allow me to appreciate it somewhat, however everything else lacks the sheer physicality of the Abyss.
I should have some time with the phi in the next few weeks and will compare it to hd800SDR/Code X, OG Abyss directly.


----------



## seamon (Oct 20, 2017)

Xecuter said:


> LCD-4 100ohm had better treble resolution than the 200ohm IMO, however I still think the resolution of the LCD-4 is fairly poor even compared to sub 1k headphones. I have heard a few variants and they all sound slightly different as well, so I never took my chances with the Audeze lottery.
> I don't really think the LCD-4 is even on the same level as the original Abyss (excusing ergonomics). I haven't heard the phi to comment.
> 
> I also found the Susvara fairly unremarkable (heard it with wa33 - which is a freaking amazing amplifier). I think a more extended audition may allow me to appreciate it somewhat, however everything else lacks the sheer physicality of the Abyss.
> I should have some time with the phi in the next few weeks and will compare it to hd800SDR/Code X, OG Abyss directly.


Which $1k headphones resolve more than LCD 4?
Are you sure you are not fooled by a brighter Treble? Brighter Treble usually tends to bring details forward
PS: HD800/S are exceptions


----------



## Xecuter

HD800SDR, i honestly think the hd650 would have similar detail presentation to lcd-4 in a decent system as well.The lcd-4 is the best Audeze I've heard, but the treble is still rolled and it really can't render microdetail.


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## seamon (Oct 20, 2017)

Xecuter said:


> HD800SDR, i honestly think the hd650 would have similar detail presentation to lcd-4 in a decent system as well.The lcd-4 is the best Audeze I've heard, but the treble is still rolled and it really can't render microdetail.


Yea HD800SDR is an exception. However, the signature is very aggressive and very fatiguing, also not musical at all.

Last week, I AB'd LCD 4,LCD 3 and HD650. I think HD650 is far far far behind the LCDs in terms of resolution. Even though HD650 is very warm, there is detail but not enough detail, not as much as the LCDs. There is so much loss in resolution with the HD650, it gets annoying

You don't need Treble to get micro-detail, in a dark headphone, micro-detail is there but it's not forward.
It seems like you are being fooled by bright headphones.


----------



## Xecuter

seamon said:


> You don't need Treble to get micro-detail


 ... ok..

Much depends on the system with the hd650.. It scales far better than any Audeze as well. 

As much as I might be fooled by bright headphones (which I loathe), it seems you don't appreciate having any mid range plankton. That's fine. But you might not enjoy the Abyss because it has excellent upper mid detail, and from what the users here have reported the lower mid detail is far improved over the original Abyss!


----------



## seamon

Xecuter said:


> ... ok..
> 
> Much depends on the system with the hd650.. It scales far better than any Audeze as well.
> 
> As much as I might be fooled by bright headphones (which I loathe), it seems you don't appreciate having any mid range plankton. That's fine. But you might not enjoy the Abyss because it has excellent upper mid detail, and from what the users here have reported the lower mid detail is far improved over the original Abyss!


I think we may be talking about different things. My bad for confusing things up.

By resolution, I was meaning subtle cues like lips smacking, fingers on guitars etc. I feel LCD series do these cues much much better than HD650.


----------



## mulder01

seamon said:


> HD650, LCD 3, LCD 2



LCD3 has a darker signature than LCD4?  Huh?


----------



## Xecuter

seamon said:


> I think we may be talking about different things. My bad for confusing things up.
> 
> By resolution, I was meaning subtle cues like lips smacking, fingers on guitars etc. I feel LCD series do these cues much much better than HD650.



I would call these things macro-detail. They are subtle but not really that difficult to render for a competent transducer in a decent system. When I refer to micro detail or plankton, I mean the tiniest of nuances around these macro sounds that complete it. Those lip smacking and guitar timbre sounds should be obvious from a great rig (think hd800sdr and a totl SET amp), 

Others may concentrate on tonal shaping to individual tastes, transient response, fast decay, low distortion. These are all important. But paramount is that all musical information be communicated.

That's why resolution is important because of how it connects the musical moments to one another, and back around to the listener. And that's why micro-detail is important because it provides a whole missing layer that wasn't apparent before..


----------



## seamon

mulder01 said:


> LCD3 has a darker signature than LCD4?  Huh?


I feel that way.
When I had my LCD 3, it was never fatiguing for me, now with LCD 4, it gets a little fatiguing for me sometimes.
I am very Treble sensitive.


----------



## seamon

mulder01 said:


> LCD3 has a darker signature than LCD4?  Huh?


Do you feel LCD 3 is brighter than LCD 4?


----------



## m17xr2b

I do feel the LCD3 is brighter and LCD4 but most likely because the 3 has splashy grainy treble which stands out more than the refined one on the 4


----------



## seamon

m17xr2b said:


> I do feel the LCD3 is brighter and LCD4 but most likely because the 3 has splashy grainy treble which stands out more than the refined one on the 4


This I agree. LCD 3 does have an uneven Treble compared to LCD 4's smooth Treble. However, in both quantity and definition, I feel LCD 4 is brighter


----------



## mulder01

Well, for me, there was about 2 years between listening to LCD-3 and LCD-4 (though both times v the abyss), and I may not use the same terms as some people, and I think even when people do use the same terms, they may not interpret them the same way anyway, so I'll tell you what I thought in simple terms when I heard them both.  

On the two occasions I listened to the 3, it simply sounded almost as if it was a very small driver (I know physically it's not, but in terms of the sound that comes out of it) - capable of doing detail well, but bass was almost non existent when compared to the mighty Abyss.  Because of the lack of bass, I found the sound aggressive and fatiguing and not really enjoyable.  

I listened to the LCD4 and Abyss side by side not long after LCD-4 was released so I'm not sure if it was 100 ohm or 200 ohm, but I was very surprised when the bass kept up with the Abyss, but that was about it.  The detail just seemed like it was glazed over.  It was anything but aggressive and I generally like a laid back sound, but for the price, I felt like it got to the point where tooo much was missing.

I never had the 3 and 4 next to eachother, only the 3 vs abyss and 4 vs abyss and I feel like the 3 did detail well but bass did not compare to abyss and 4 did bass well but detail did not compare to abyss.

Listening to the abyss is a different experience entirely though - it just sounds... big... epic I don't know how to describe it.  I think this is where "it's like a big pair of speakers" comes from - not in the sense that it sounds like the sound is in front of you, or that you have the physical presence of sound in the room but there is more meat, more heft, more physicality to it than any other headphone.  It's something you need to hear for yourself.  

TBH, I don't blame anyone who doesn't believe me.  I never even began to consider spending more than about $2k on a headphone and thought I was already a little bit crazy for doing that.  And when the guy at the store I was auditioning headphones at asked me if I wanted to try the Abyss, I said nah, not really interested, (for the reasons I mentioned in a previous post - uber expensive, looks weird etc). but he said well, you're here so you may as well while you're trying everything else.  And I said, mate, you can set it up for me if you like, but it doesn't matter what it sounds like, I'm not buying one.  So anyway, I let him set it up for me.  I listened to the first track and about 30 seconds in I was looking at the rest of the music library because he must have just put the most well recorded track in the world on - it sounded that damn good.  So I picked something else thinking it must be a gimmick.  That sounded excellent too.  Then I was looking at the info of the files to make sure they weren't just some super special recordings, but no, just flac cd rips.  Then I started to look behind the gear he had set up to make sure there wasn't anything funny going on behind the scenes that I didn't know about.  Nope, just PC, DAC, amp, Abyss.  Then I swore a bit because I didn't like any other headphones anymore.  Then I took my foot out of my mouth, went home and saved up, sold all my other gear and bought a pair.  The difference was that significant _for me._  Then a while later when the HEK came out I listened to that - meh.  Then the LCD-4 - meh.  Nothing else blew my socks off anymore.  

But then I hear some other people audition it at a show and not get it.  Everybody's different I suppose, but that was my experience.  LCD-3 - Detailed, but no balls.  LCD-4 - Balls, but lazy.


----------



## up late (Oct 20, 2017)

audio memory can be unreliable. that said, my experience of the lcd3 and lcd4 was the opposite of yours. the lcd4 had a level of clarity and resolution that the lcd3 lacked. while i haven't compared the lcd4 and abyss directly, my recollection of them is that the lcd4 was the more refined and "transparent" of the two. two distinct presentations tho to be fair.


----------



## jlbrach

i own the lcd-4 and had the lcd-3....the 4s are highly detailed...far more so than the 3s...not even close....


----------



## draytonklammer

jlbrach said:


> i own the lcd-4 and had the lcd-3....the 4s are highly detailed...far more so than the 3s...not even close....



Agreed, I preferred the LCD-4 a fair amount compared to the LCD-3 and LCD-X. (which, I liked the X better than the 3 personally...)


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> Agreed, I preferred the LCD-4 a fair amount compared to the LCD-3 and LCD-X. (which, I liked the X better than the 3 personally...)



I agree I liked the X much more than the 3.  I was ready to walk out of the shop with an X until I heard the Abyss.  If the 4 was out at the time I was auditioning the 3 and X, I probably would have been blown away by it.  But we are talking several years ago when I think the Fazors just came out on the 3.  Compared to the Abyss the 3 and X were a mile behind so I bought the Abyss.  Got used to it for a long time until the 4 was released then auditioned the 4 next to the Abyss.  4 was behind the Abyss, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it wasn't miles better than the 3 and X.  I didn't make that direct comparison because I had no need to.  I only wanted to see if the 4 was better than the Abyss.  

The 3 vs 4 comparison was more to illustrate why I considered the LCD4 to be darker than the 3.  The 4 sounded quite dark to me next to the Abyss and there was no way from the memory that I had of the 3, that I would consider it to be dark, let alone darker than the 4, hence the comment about the 3 being brighter than the 4.


----------



## up late (Oct 21, 2017)

i was under the impression from your previous post that the differences you recall hearing between the presentations of the lcd3 and lcd4 related to detail retrieval and bass presence. i'm not sure whether the lcd4 sounded any darker than the lcd3 but the improvement in clarity and detail was more than subtle to my ears. maybe we're just describing what we heard differently or that we heard them quite differently or both.


----------



## Articnoise

Audeze have many revisions of the LCD3. The latest from 2016 is the least dark sounded one and have more treble and less midrange creaminess then the previous ones. The high treble is more pronounced on the LCD3 from 2016 than the LCD4 so on some songs it can sound a bit brighter. All the LCD3 have a more pronounced midrange than the LCD4 which can make it sound darker than LCD4 on some music.  The older the LCD3, the darker and creamier sound. The bass on LCD4 is much better than on all LCD3 revisions but quantity vice no big difference. LCD3 is slower and can have more bass bloom than both LCD4 and Abyss thous.


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## BoyNamedSue (Oct 21, 2017)

Have anyone done any mods beyond the headband one?

From lessons learned from modding my HE6's, I applied the following mods to my original Abyss 1) felt adhesives (creatology) on on the flat surfaces on the driver sides, and 2) blu tak in the air gap between the driver housing and pads. The mods are completely reversible. I didn't have much theoretical reasoning for applying the mods other than my curiosity.

I've been listening to Abyss all week with the mods, and pleasantly surprised to hear improvements in SQ. Specifically, it seems like the mids are no longer recessed, imaging is more in focus (i.e., images are less fuzzy), and the sound is more natural and less fatiguing. There are no longer any weird peaks in frequency range, and I feel like I could listen for longer sessions without any fatigue. The bass also sounds a bit tighter but not sure if this is placebo as difference in bass tightness is very slight.

Some downsides (based on taste) is that they don't sound as energetic as before, and perhaps slightly warmer.

Bass impact, detail/resolution, transperancy, bass and treble extension, separation, and size of soundstage seem unchanged by the mods.


----------



## Xecuter

BoyNamedSue said:


> Have anyone done any mods beyond the headband one?



I run a very similar mod on my Original Abyss. creatology foam covered in thin felt, seems to stop some of the upper mid reflections (hard reflective baffle is not ideal IMO). Lower mids are better but still the weak point of the headphone.
I haven't filled the gap with blue tack because my creatology foam fills the gap well enough.

Hard wiring and rewiring of Abyss with OCC is another mod I have been considering..


----------



## ithilienrp (Oct 24, 2017)

Today, the rubber part of my Abyss headband completely melted. (and yes, I mean "melted" ... to the point that when I pulled it, part of it loosed from the rest. Imagine pulling a piece of hot pizza). And part of the melted rubber stuck inside the hole in the Abyss headband. Can't really get it out easily. (And I assure you, I did not do anything with it, it just slowly melted overtime).

So, I decided to "fix it" with whatever I have lying around.

And here's the material:



A ZMF Pilot pad (happen to have one lying around). A few rubber bands (3-5, depending on sizes and strength). A adhesive tape. A tissue paper (missing from this photo, I figured out later that I need this).

OK, let's get started.



First, you tie/knot the rubber bands together like this. Make sure the fit just right for you. You can test with your hand or simply put it on your head. You can, in fact, use it like this, but it won't be comfortable as the knot might be directly on sensitive part of your head. It has no weight distribution mechanism. Also, the headphone will easily tipped and fall, like it is standing on thin rope.

To fix all these, I need a ZMF pilot pad. But before that, I need something that would help the pilot pad staying properly.

The ZMF pilot pad was designed to go around larger headband (namely, a Fostex T50RP headband), and will have a bit of difficulty wrapping around the thin knotted-together rubbers.

Since I don't have anything to wrap around the rubber, so I decided to go ghetto by just using a tissue paper. Fold it up a few times and just tape it. (If you have anything better, like pen soft case, by all means, use it).



To help sticking the Pilot Pad to the paper, I put a few adhesive tape on the pad. To make this easily reversible/removable, choose adhesive tape that doesn’t stick very well on cloth material (the cover-side on the pad). Just barely stick would be enough.



Now, sticking them together.



Since the pilot pad already has velcro on one side, the final step is easy.



Here's another photo of it lying on the table.



And, well, here it is on my head (no cable connected, not listening to anything, obviously).



It's not really a "Ghetto" mod, since I happen to have a helper (unused/spare ZMF Pilot Pad) lying around. But at least I don't have to order a new headband and wait. And it is SOOOOOO comfortable (sorry for shouting, couldn't help). The padding of the ZMF Pilot Pad really does its magic here.

Dave


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Xecuter said:


> I run a very similar mod on my Original Abyss. creatology foam covered in thin felt, seems to stop some of the upper mid reflections (hard reflective baffle is not ideal IMO). Lower mids are better but still the weak point of the headphone.
> I haven't filled the gap with blue tack because my creatology foam fills the gap well enough.
> 
> Hard wiring and rewiring of Abyss with OCC is another mod I have been considering..



Good to know that I'm not the alone with the foam mod. It sounds like you applied it in a similar way and found improvements in the mids. I listened to the foam mod prior to the blu tak and noticed more presence in mid range and an overall more natural sound (no weird peaks). The improved imaging and tigther bass came after I applied the blu tak (i.e., covered the perimeter of the inner part of the mounting ring with blu tak, with a larger clumps of blu tak in the areas where the pads indent creating the gap). It took just a few minutes for the blu tak, and completely reversible, so may be worth a try. With the two mods, the sound is more clean and natural. 

I think I may try the hard wire down the line if I decide to keep the phones.  I'm wary of attemping surgery on something so expensive, especially given my beginner DIY skills. 

I currently have my abyss on sale (local only in LA) but with recent improvements, I'm not finding any motivation to sell them quickly.


----------



## phase0

Well I'm official now... Got the Phi in hand...



 
First listen on my setup, first impression is: "Wow! I made the right decision selling the Utopia and going the Abyss route." I can already tell I like the tonal balance more and these have the bass I crave even tho for some reason I'm listening to a bunch of light acoustic music now. It also has a better sound stage. LOL. Anyways I feel relieved. Going to RMAF really helped that I could listen to everything I wanted to and compare. Now I'm getting excited. These should be the "end game" HPs for me.


----------



## draytonklammer

phase0 said:


> Well I'm official now... Got the Phi in hand...
> 
> 
> First listen on my setup, first impression is: "Wow! I made the right decision selling the Utopia and going the Abyss route." I can already tell I like the tonal balance more and these have the bass I crave even tho for some reason I'm listening to a bunch of light acoustic music now. It also has a better sound stage. LOL. Anyways I feel relieved. Going to RMAF really helped that I could listen to everything I wanted to and compare. Now I'm getting excited. These should be the "end game" HPs for me.



Keep hoping to get my Phi someday.


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> Keep hoping to get my Phi someday.



You've been given a date to send your pair in, haven't you?


----------



## JohanGao

phase0 said:


> Well I'm official now... Got the Phi in hand...
> 
> 
> First listen on my setup, first impression is: "Wow! I made the right decision selling the Utopia and going the Abyss route." I can already tell I like the tonal balance more and these have the bass I crave even tho for some reason I'm listening to a bunch of light acoustic music now. It also has a better sound stage. LOL. Anyways I feel relieved. Going to RMAF really helped that I could listen to everything I wanted to and compare. Now I'm getting excited. These should be the "end game" HPs for me.



How about the fitting... still considering between susvara and abyss phi, for sound maybe i would get the abyss in future yet still not sure with the fitting.


----------



## mulder01

JohanGao said:


> How about the fitting... still considering between susvara and abyss phi, for sound maybe i would get the abyss in future yet still not sure with the fitting.



Have you heard both?  You get used to the fit.  It's weird, but as you adjust it, the differences in sound from changing the gaps / pressure on the pads is immediately obvious, so it doesn't take long to dial them in how you like them best.  And you can easily make adjustments later if a different mood strikes.


----------



## JohanGao

mulder01 said:


> Have you heard both?  You get used to the fit.  It's weird, but as you adjust it, the differences in sound from changing the gaps / pressure on the pads is immediately obvious, so it doesn't take long to dial them in how you like them best.  And you can easily make adjustments later if a different mood strikes.



I mean the comfortable, is it makes a pain after said 30 minute or 1 hour of use? I can't hear both of them on my place, because no store have stock for audition here, so for high end headphone, i just read other member impression to make a decision on buying..


----------



## up late

you really should audition them in order to ascertain which one is the most comfortable for you. no one else can do this for you.


----------



## mulder01

If auditioning them yourself is really not an option... umm... I suppose comfort really depends on the individual - for me, it does become uncomfortable after a time, but for me, pretty much every headphone is uncomfortable after a time.  I see you have the HEK - for me, the adjustable headband holders on the side dug into the side of my head so it was uncomfortable after... seconds... Obviously not a problem for many people though.  Headphones with thin pads like the TH900 and HD800 had pressure more focused on some spots around my ears so it became painful in those spots after not very long (I am talking in-store audition amounts of time).  The LCD4 pads are nice and soft and thick, but I found the clamping force too much so it was more general discomfort on the sides of my head than localised.  On the Abyss, there is no pressure on the pads which is great, but if you look at phase0's photo, you can see that the headband is quite tight and straight, but your head is round like the stand it's sitting on, so the weight is mostly supported by a small spot.  Hard to say whether this will effect you, as there are many people that are not bothered by it, but if you are quite sensitive to many other headphones like me, then maybe it will be an issue.  Can't comment on the susvara fit because I've not tried it but I'd say it would be equally as intolerable as the HEK for me given the similar design.  So the Abyss does cause me some level of discomfort, but less than a lot of other popular headphones...  Don't know if that helps you or not...


----------



## up late (Oct 26, 2017)

the abyss is a much heavier headphone than the th900 or hd800. they are lightweight in comparison and far more ergonomically appealing to me. the hek is the most comfortable planar magnetic headphone that i've worn and it seemed to be considerably lighter than the abyss as well. if you're discussing headphone comfort then weight has to be a consideration, and the abyss is one of the heaviest headphones going around.


----------



## mulder01

It is, but I have found that even though other headphones are lighter, the pressure they apply is more uncomfortable than the downward force.  I get zero pain in my neck from abyss/lcd4, some people get a fair bit.  If you get neck pain from sheer weight then there's really not much you can do.  For me the issue is pressure focused on certain spots, whether it be from sheer weight from something like abyss or clamping force from something lighter - both equally as annoying despite the weight difference.  Lcd-4 has weight and clamping yet I have seen few complaints...  As they say, individual results may vary...


----------



## up late (Oct 26, 2017)

the th900 exerts negligible clamping pressure on my head and i've not seen any complaints about that, its overall comfort or weight. i don't recall clamping pressure being an issue with the hd800 either but it's not the most comfortable headphone that i've worn. the hek was very comfortable for me - no complaints there. i've always found the audeze lcd models heavy and somewhat claustrophobic - a bit like wearing a padded helmet. i found the lcd-4 more comfortable than the previous iterations but it is still a heavy headphone.

i don't expect to experience neck pain when i put on a headphone (no one should) and i haven't yet, but i don't expect it to weigh me down either. that's how i felt when i auditioned the abyss and various lcd models. i'm not saying that the abyss was uncomfortable - it wasn't, but it is a heavy headphone and that could become a cause of fatigue and discomfort for the wearer over time. there's something to be said for how a comfortable, relatively lightweight design enhances the headphone listening experience - particularly for longer listening sessions. the sr-007 and mdr-z1r are two supreme examples of this imo - they're both a pleasure to wear. just because a musician might have suffered for his music doesn't mean that i have to. ymmv.


----------



## FLTWS

phase0 said:


> Well I'm official now... Got the Phi in hand...
> 
> 
> First listen on my setup, first impression is: "Wow! I made the right decision selling the Utopia and going the Abyss route." I can already tell I like the tonal balance more and these have the bass I crave even tho for some reason I'm listening to a bunch of light acoustic music now. It also has a better sound stage. LOL. Anyways I feel relieved. Going to RMAF really helped that I could listen to everything I wanted to and compare. Now I'm getting excited. These should be the "end game" HPs for me.



Nice Pic


----------



## phase0

JohanGao said:


> How about the fitting... still considering between susvara and abyss phi, for sound maybe i would get the abyss in future yet still not sure with the fitting.



These two sound different and at this price point you should audition before you buy if possible. I bought the Utopia blind based on hype/reviews. Now I decided it's not the best fit for me. I only had 15-30 min with the Susvara, in that amount of time I'd say it was comfy, but I had a similar amount of time with the Abyss as well. The Abyss being a little bit unconventional takes some adjustment. I haven't dialed in the fit yet. I did get a sense of pressure on my head last night. I know JPS Labs has other headbands. Maybe one that is fatter would spread the weight out more? Susvara lacks all the adjustment options. Another thing I considered was that I read a lot of complaints about HifiMan build quality being not so great with the HE1K. As far as I know Abyss has been solid for most people, no major issues. I think Abyss is more visceral and engaging. You guys already know which horse I bet on.

Another odd thing. I couldn't get to bed until 3am or round about, and even then just had a really difficult time shutting down. Felt like a little kid on christmas morning. When I started sampling different tracks just all brand new again. If I wasn't tethered with a HP cable maybe I would be running around the room shouting OMG! Normally I can be more responsible about shutting down but I just couldn't help myself last night. Abyss is just astoundingly good. I remember Tyll saying about the Utopia if there's one HP you should save your pennies for, it's the Utopia. For me IMO, I'd tell people sell all your HPs and buy an Abyss. Don't walk, run like the wind and buy it now! Having it in my own environment I feel like this really is a next level headphone. I had an online friend linking me to some youtube tracks and one thing popped out is there's a sense of 3D dimensionality in some of the sounds really started to strike me. I had a greater sense of positioning and some sounds really felt 3D like I want to look back over my shoulder, or so realistic I want to jump like who is there? what was that? I can really see how the Utopia is smaller stage. I really should try some binaural demos.

I'm really tired right now, but all I can say is over and over I was wide eyed and jaw dropping, multiple expletives, can't believe how good this is. I do honestly wonder about Susvara but their price point was something I can't accept at this point and I really felt like my preference will likely be better served by the Abyss. I think it has bigger balls than Susvara. I love how I can put on some electronic music with some bass just how deep and meaty it is. I don't get any sense of mud or sloppiness, it seems so balanced and controlled with so much depth and delicate detail that doesn't get messy. Coming from the Utopia especially I have my perspective on the that, I wonder how anyone can pick Utopia over this but I guess that's why we have variety to choose from.


----------



## draytonklammer (Oct 26, 2017)

mulder01 said:


> You've been given a date to send your pair in, haven't you?




No, Joe merely told me I was on a list.

So I'm kind of in a stuck position.


----------



## jlbrach

the good thing is the turn around is pretty quick once you do get the message to send them in


----------



## draytonklammer

jlbrach said:


> the good thing is the turn around is pretty quick once you do get the message to send them in



I'm hoping I do get a message sometime in the next couple months. Preferably earlier than later. I have the money saved and ready to go.


----------



## JohanGao

up late said:


> you really should audition them in order to ascertain which one is the most comfortable for you. no one else can do this for you.


I know that, but is it comfortable for you? Because I really can't audition them.. pity me...


----------



## JohanGao

I was LCD 3 user before, for me LCD3 clamping force is not to big and never had issue with my neck.. The one makes me pain is the head band pressing top of my head, and it makes pain after about half or a hour of use. I have a small size of head, so maybe that's the reason why I don't feel the clamp and because the clamp not to big, it makes the headphone slumped down and the headband touching my head and makes top of my head withstanding the overall weight of the headphone.


----------



## up late (Oct 26, 2017)

it was comfortable enough for the purpose of auditioning but its weight and form factor would be a deal breaker for me. that said, it's a fun listen.

while i'm sympathetic to your situation, i would never seriously contemplate buying such an expensive headphone without trying it first.


----------



## JohanGao

I was LCD 3 user before, for me LCD3 clamping force is not to big and never had issue with my neck.. The one makes me pain is the head band pressing top of my head, and it makes pain after about half or a hour of use. I have a small size of head, so maybe that's the reason why I don't feel the clamp and because the clamp not to big, it makes the headphone slumped down and the headband touching my head and makes top of my head withstanding the overall weight of the headphone.


up late said:


> it was comfortable enough for the purpose of auditioning but its weight and form factor would be a deal breaker for me. that said, it's a fun listen.
> 
> while i'm sympathetic to your situation, i would never seriously contemplate buying such an expensive headphone without trying it first.


Thank you for the explanation, If i can try it would be really good. But the problem is there is no headphone store selling that high end thing in my city. The only high end headphone store is in the capital city which is 2 hour from my city by plane, an they also don't have abyss nor susvara to try.


----------



## jmills8

Articnoise said:


> Abyss is faster and punchier, it also have less midrange and bass bloom. LCD 4 is a bit more refined with less treble and treble grain, but Abyss has a bit more transparency and clarity. I have not heard the Abyss Phi and from the impressions I have read it could be great, especially the less “U-shaped” and more refined sound.


Yeah, the Abyss has very nice treble but its not sharp and not too much. I love its bass!


----------



## mulder01

phase0 said:


> These two sound different and at this price point you should audition before you buy if possible. I bought the Utopia blind based on hype/reviews. Now I decided it's not the best fit for me. I only had 15-30 min with the Susvara, in that amount of time I'd say it was comfy, but I had a similar amount of time with the Abyss as well. The Abyss being a little bit unconventional takes some adjustment. I haven't dialed in the fit yet. I did get a sense of pressure on my head last night. I know JPS Labs has other headbands. Maybe one that is fatter would spread the weight out more? Susvara lacks all the adjustment options. Another thing I considered was that I read a lot of complaints about HifiMan build quality being not so great with the HE1K. As far as I know Abyss has been solid for most people, no major issues. I think Abyss is more visceral and engaging. You guys already know which horse I bet on.
> 
> Another odd thing. I couldn't get to bed until 3am or round about, and even then just had a really difficult time shutting down. Felt like a little kid on christmas morning. When I started sampling different tracks just all brand new again. If I wasn't tethered with a HP cable maybe I would be running around the room shouting OMG! Normally I can be more responsible about shutting down but I just couldn't help myself last night. Abyss is just astoundingly good. I remember Tyll saying about the Utopia if there's one HP you should save your pennies for, it's the Utopia. For me IMO, I'd tell people sell all your HPs and buy an Abyss. Don't walk, run like the wind and buy it now! Having it in my own environment I feel like this really is a next level headphone. I had an online friend linking me to some youtube tracks and one thing popped out is there's a sense of 3D dimensionality in some of the sounds really started to strike me. I had a greater sense of positioning and some sounds really felt 3D like I want to look back over my shoulder, or so realistic I want to jump like who is there? what was that? I can really see how the Utopia is smaller stage. I really should try some binaural demos.
> 
> I'm really tired right now, but all I can say is over and over I was wide eyed and jaw dropping, multiple expletives, can't believe how good this is. I do honestly wonder about Susvara but their price point was something I can't accept at this point and I really felt like my preference will likely be better served by the Abyss. I think it has bigger balls than Susvara. I love how I can put on some electronic music with some bass just how deep and meaty it is. I don't get any sense of mud or sloppiness, it seems so balanced and controlled with so much depth and delicate detail that doesn't get messy. Coming from the Utopia especially I have my perspective on the that, I wonder how anyone can pick Utopia over this but I guess that's why we have variety to choose from.



Did you have the original Abyss beforehand and all this excitement is over the phi upgrade, or is the phi the first pair of abyss you have owned?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

up late said:


> it was comfortable enough for the purpose of auditioning but its weight and form factor would be a deal breaker for me. that said, it's a fun listen.



The 1266 has been on the market for over 4 years now and I speak with the utmost experience when I say that the weight of this headphone is of no concern unless a known medical condition exists, in which case anything placed on your head is a problem.

The headband design spreads weight over a large area so downward pressure at any one spot is minimal.  In other words, no one complains about a few ounces per square inch pushing down on soft leather.  On the contrary, the lack of clamping force offers more comfort to most that shaving off a few ounces of weight ever will. People who try them on for the first time are always surprised with the comfort relative to the look. As with the sound, it’s all about balance.


Of owners all over the world only a few had a problem with a small area on top of their head, something to do with their cranial bone structure. In each case we mailed a few thin layers of foam laser cut to match the shape of the leather headband- problem solved. For the other 99.9%, life is good.


----------



## jmills8

To me its more comfortable than the Utopia and it sounds better.


----------



## up late (Oct 27, 2017)

Joe Skubinski said:


> The 1266 has been on the market for over 4 years now and I speak with the utmost experience when I say that the weight of this headphone is of no concern unless a known medical condition exists, in which case anything placed on your head is a problem.
> 
> The headband design spreads weight over a large area so downward pressure at any one spot is minimal.  In other words, no one complains about a few ounces per square inch pushing down on soft leather.  On the contrary, the lack of clamping force offers more comfort to most that shaving off a few ounces of weight ever will. People who try them on for the first time are always surprised with the comfort relative to the look. As with the sound, it’s all about balance.
> 
> Of owners all over the world only a few had a problem with a small area on top of their head, something to do with their cranial bone structure. In each case we mailed a few thin layers of foam laser cut to match the shape of the leather headband- problem solved. For the other 99.9%, life is good.



i don't have a medical condition but i do recognise a heavy headphone when i hold it in my hands and place it on my head. i agree that the weight of the abyss was well distributed and there was no clamping force because the ear pads lightly touched my ears. i've acknowledged that before in this thread, but it is still a heavy and cumbersome headphone regardless imo.

a weight comparison between the abyss phi and two of the most comfortable headphones that i've worn, and which i referred to earlier, follows:

abyss phi - 620 grams

stax sr-007mk2 - 365 grams (without cable)

sony mdr-z1r - 385 grams (without cable)

i'm not sure whether the weight of the abyss phi as it appears on your website includes the cable or not. but as you can see, the weight differences between it and the other two headphones aren't insignificant, and i can assure you that they are noticeable when worn.


----------



## up late

jmills8 said:


> To me its more comfortable than the Utopia and it sounds better.



i couldn't disagree more but i also recognise that it's pointless to do so


----------



## phase0

mulder01 said:


> Did you have the original Abyss beforehand and all this excitement is over the phi upgrade, or is the phi the first pair of abyss you have owned?



Abyss Phi is the first pair of Abyss I've owned.


----------



## jlbrach

up late said:


> i couldn't disagree more but i also recognise that it's pointless to do so



personally i agree with both posters here, I find the Phi far better than the Utopia but also agree it is totally subjective


----------



## Stereolab42

Regarding the LCD3 vs the LCD4... I owned the 3 for a while and came to dislike its very dark and veiled signature. Heard the LCD4 recently and it's not dark at all -- far more like the LCDX/XC, in fact. It's also a stunningly detailed and intense headphone, and blew away the Utopia at the last meet I was at. (Might have made a difference it was being driven by Audeze's uber-expensive custom amp.) Didn't get the chance to A/B it directly with an Abyss, but while it might be somewhat close I still feel the Abyss would come out ahead.

(And yeah, I put my name on the list for a Phi upgrade... but the wait now extends well into Spring!)


----------



## draytonklammer (Oct 30, 2017)

I find the Abyss about as comfortable as my Utopia for example.
LCD-4 was probably less comfortable (LCD-3/X for sure less)
HEK I think was more, but the build quality is crap.

My Abyss is durable up late. I would honestly feel fine even if my Abyss dropped from a height (even though it never will)


----------



## mulder01 (Oct 28, 2017)

Joe Skubinski said:


> Of owners all over the world only a few had a problem with a small area on top of their head, something to do with their cranial bone structure.



Now you have me wondering about my cranial bone structure  Just about every headphone makes my head sore.

up late questions everybody on everything.  This is all pretty standard


----------



## knopi (Oct 28, 2017)

With all respect, if somebody complains about headphone weight and some neck problems etc.. It is not problem with headphones but yours which you created during your live (couch potatoes or badly moving or just no knowledge). I have never head problem even with Audeze I do not even think it is heavy, yes less comfy but still very quality pads so no problem, problem was clamp a few years back but today it is not. What actually I do not like is if headphone have shallow pads like Susvara it is quite joke offer mega overpriced hp and moreover badly design basic things ridiculous.
On the other hand HEKv2 is beautifuly comfy and pads not shallow as well...


----------



## up late (Oct 30, 2017)

so in other words, the problem lies with the headphone wearer rather than the headphone. i think that you're putting the cart before the horse there. 

anyway, i hope that @JohanGao does have an opportunity to compare the comfort levels of the abyss and susvara for himself at some point.


----------



## mulder01

knopi said:


> With all respect, if somebody complains about headphone weight and some neck problems etc.. It is not problem with headphones but yours which you created during your live (couch potatoes or badly moving or just no knowledge). I have never head problem even with Audeze I do not even think it is heavy, yes less comfy but still very quality pads so no problem, problem was clamp a few years back but today it is not. What actually I do not like is if headphone have shallow pads like Susvara it is quite joke offer mega overpriced hp and moreover badly design basic things ridiculous.
> On the other hand HEKv2 is beautifuly comfy and pads not shallow as well...



Everybody's different - the member asking the question about potentially getting a sore spot on his head from weight of the Abyss, mentioned that he got a sore spot on his head from the weight of the LCD3.  Given that the Abyss is a bit heavier than the 3, common sense would tell you he would have the same issue.  Nobody's saying that there is a problem with the headphone.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's worth it anyway - the sound from the Abyss is so much better than anything I have experienced so far, that I would find a way to make it work - either lay down, use a bit of extra padding, get a custom headband etc because I believe it's worth it for the sound.   But that wasn't the question and I'm just trying to be honest with the guy.

I've not heard the susvara but even if it's super comfy, I think it has issues of a different type.


----------



## FLTWS (Oct 30, 2017)

mulder01 said:


> Now you have me wondering about my cranial bone structure  Just about every headphone makes my head sore.
> 
> up late questions everybody on everything.  This is all pretty standard



Unless I'm auditioning or comparing phones in-home I never listen more than 2 to 3 hours a day. The same amount of time I could spend at a live concert. If at the end of a 2 hour session the fit was unbearable, for whatever reason, I'd lose interest in it and move on regardless of how good it sounded. Aside from how the design fits my ears my usual issue is with heat build up, even in winter when I let room temps drop to 68 degrees, and the sweat inducing factor of the ear cup fabric.


----------



## draytonklammer (Oct 30, 2017)

I've never sold my Abyss. It's my longest standing TOTL actually. As for the Phi, I haven't made any solid comments on it because I haven't heard it. Saying it's a revolution makes no sense either, you're just putting words in my mouth at that. My comment was towards my Abyss. Not a Phi. That's an assumption.

Neck comfort of the Abyss is just fine with the weight and the way it distributes said weight for me. Especially with a proper fit.


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Oct 30, 2017)

Let's try one more time... *Weight is not the significant factor*, it's how it is distributed. A mass of an object (the headphone) is spread out over a surface area (the headband) effectively creating many smaller downward forces. The engineering associated with calculating these forces is called Statics, nowadays 3D design software such as Solidworks does it for you. If you measure the weight (or pressure) at any given point on your head of the leather pushing downward you would find it to be a small fraction of the overall suspended mass. The leather headband design we use is not unique in shape, basically an inverted hammock. The reason hammocks are so comfortable for a 90 lb or a 300 lb person alike is due to it's ability to uniformly distribute weight. In the case of a headphone its all about minimizing hot spots, areas where any significant percentage of weight are concentrated.

What can trip this up is an individuals cranial shape. If you have an area where your bone structure juts out further than the rest of your head, more pressure will be exerted by the headband (or ear pad in the case of clamping force) on that area relative to the rest of the head, creating an individual hot spot for that person only, not the general population [of head-fi'ers]. So that person will gravitate toward a headphone design that manages to avoid exerting pressure on that one spot.

We spent a lot of time creating the headband for the 1266 to distribute the 620 grams evenly, effectively making the headphone *feel lighter* than say *another headphone of lesser weight *who's headband does not do as good a job at the same. I know the leather headband does not look like much, but as it goes looks can be deceiving, concealing engineering distilled down to it's simplest form, and no simpler. Even the way it's stitched matters.


----------



## up late (Oct 30, 2017)

"let's try one more time..." *weight is a significant factor *with the abyss, regardless of how well it is distributed. i'm not alone in noticing this as others have also remarked upon the abyss's weight at this forum and elsewhere.

thanks for the lesson on the physics behind the headband design, but i have already acknowledged that the weight was well distributed in an earlier post, however, it doesn't eliminate it. when i auditioned the abyss, i found it to be a heavy and cumbersome (but not uncomfortable) headphone. comparisons with the other models that i mentioned earlier made that even more apparent.


----------



## jlbrach (Oct 28, 2017)

I have the Phi and have used or own pretty much all of the high end HP's....the Phi is bulky a little odd  and takes a little getting used to but the way it distributes its weight it is actually quite easy to wear for extended periods.Also because their is little clamping force on your ears it doesnt fatigue in that way...the trick to the Phi is finding a position and ear cup setting that allows it to rest comfrtably,once you do it is no more difficult to wear than other HP's......


----------



## up late (Oct 28, 2017)

i have acknowledged repeatedly now that the abyss's weight was well distributed, it exerted no clamping force and it was not uncomfortable to wear. however, i maintain that there are other totl headphones (including models that i own and others that i have auditioned) that are noticeably lighter in weight, not as unwieldy, more comfortable and therefore better suited to longer listening sessions.

headphone comfort is an important consideration for me, especially in the high-end market segment. i don't want to feel encumbered or weighed down by a headphone because i find that it can detract from the overall listening experience. that's partly why i don't own a totl planar magnetic headphone.

i note that at 330 grams, the diana is almost half the weight of the abyss. i think that's a tremendous achievement by jbs labs. if the headband and ear pads are comfortable, and it exerts minimal clamping force, then i imagine that folks will hardly notice that they have it on save for the music, and that's a good thing imo. i'll definitely be giving it an audition.


----------



## mulder01

up late said:


> i note that at 330 grams, the diana is almost half the weight of the abyss. i think that's a tremendous achievement by jbs labs. if the headband and ear pads are comfortable, and it exerts minimal clamping force, then i imagine that folks will hardly notice that they have it on save for the music, and that's a good thing imo. i'll definitely be giving it an audition.



JohanGao, This is a good point - if the diana can offer a fair chunk of what the Phi can offer, at (a bit over) half the weight and price, maybe it's worth waiting for that...


----------



## FLTWS (Oct 29, 2017)

jlbrach said:


> I have the Phi and have used or own pretty much all of the high end HP's....the Phi is bulky a little odd  and takes a little getting used to but the way it distributes its weight it is actually quite easy to wear for extended periods.Also because their is little clamping force on your ears it doesnt fatigue in that way...the trick to the Phi is finding a position and ear cup setting that allows it to rest comfrtably,once you do it is no more difficult to wear than other HP's......



That's why I plan to give the 1266 another go after spending a week with it last year. For some reason I experienced a disconnect between the video's instructions and how I was applying them. Pretty sure I had them set up too firmly so as to give a securely positioned fit like most phones I have or have auditioned. The centrifugal aspect of the Princess Leia hairdo design had me adjusting for maximum clamp pressure and seal.

The Diana would be a "must audition" also for me.


----------



## Beolab (Oct 29, 2017)

Xecuter said:


> I run a very similar mod on my Original Abyss. creatology foam covered in thin felt, seems to stop some of the upper mid reflections (hard reflective baffle is not ideal IMO). Lower mids are better but still the weak point of the headphone.
> I haven't filled the gap with blue tack because my creatology foam fills the gap well enough.
> 
> Hard wiring and rewiring of Abyss with OCC is another mod I have been considering..




Interesting mod to reduce reflections, i wounder if leather would be the better alternative instead of the felt material. Have you used double sided tape or how have you fastened the felt?

What is your point of view Joe S?


----------



## Xecuter (Oct 29, 2017)

Beolab said:


> Interesting mod to reduce reflections, i wounder if leather would be the better alternative instead of the felt material. Have you used double sided tape or how have you fastened the felt?
> 
> What is your point of view Joe S?




I tried leather, it worked more to absorb sound and didn't fix my reflection issue. The felt works to diffuse reflections rather than minimise them.
I 3d printed the baffle shape of the abyss and used a scalpel to cut different thicknesses of foam and felt with adhesive attached, until I found one that suited me the best.
It's a really harmless mod, I've had a few friends compare OG Abyss  with and without the mod, and they all prefered with the mod.

Some measurements were done on another forum with this mod, however the thread was archived and can't be accessed anymore. The measurements were fairly positive if you are into that sort of thing..

I will test my mod with phi soon.


----------



## JohanGao

mulder01 said:


> JohanGao, This is a good point - if the diana can offer a fair chunk of what the Phi can offer, at (a bit over) half the weight and price, maybe it's worth waiting for that...


Yes, I was keep an eye for Diana also... waiting for more impression and review to come.


----------



## AxelCloris

I've had to clean up some of the recent posts in this thread. Please keep the posts within our Posting Guidelines.

Thank you everyone for your help in keeping the thread running smoothly.


----------



## MacedonianHero (Nov 1, 2017)

So these arrived today:






Abyss Phi. 

 I was so impressed with them at TAVES last month when I covered the show for Headphone.Guru (and mentioned my impressions here too), I recently bought myself a pair from the good folks at Woo Audio (amazing customer service BTW). So far they are what I remembered; that's to say, spacious, transparent, authoritative and dynamic. While the original Abyss were very good headphones, I felt the treble (and to a lesser extent the mids) held them back from true greatness. Well, out of my DAVE / GS-X MK2, the Abyss Phi's have really kicked things up a few notches in these two areas and retained some of the very best bass & sound staging out of any headphone money can buy.


----------



## drew911d

Took my phi to the az meet, for the few hours I could stay, some few people had a chance to get a good impression.  Wish I could have stayed longer.  Really wish I could try Dave with them.  As it was, I was really impressed (mind blown) with a yggy setup with lots of power and signal conditioning and also very, very much liked the Eddie Current Balancing Act fed from a PS Audio DAC.  Way different setups, but I couldn't know which I prefer without hours and hours of sampling both.  Everybody that could try the phi in the short time I was there liked them.  Awesome.


----------



## Thenewguy007

MacedonianHero said:


> So these arrived today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is the Abyss the reason you got rid of your Stax?


----------



## draytonklammer

I wish I knew when I could upgrade my Abyss to the Phi.


----------



## Xecuter

draytonklammer said:


> I wish I knew when I could upgrade my Abyss to the Phi.



Sell OG abyss and buy phi. Making noise here isn't going to move you up the list.


----------



## draytonklammer

Xecuter said:


> Sell OG abyss and buy phi. Making noise here isn't going to move you up the list.



It's not about moving on the list. It's that I barely even know my position in said list.


----------



## mulder01

You're no. 847
Sorry man.


----------



## FLTWS

mulder01 said:


> You're no. 847
> Sorry man.


LOL,funny. But not for him.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Thenewguy007 said:


> Is the Abyss the reason you got rid of your Stax?



Partially, but after 5 years I was looking for a change (plus not wanting to invest $8k+ on a new BHSE was also part of it). Plus I need to upgrade my 5 year old iMac.


----------



## cacatalysis

drew911d said:


> Took my phi to the az meet, for the few hours I could stay, some few people had a chance to get a good impression.  Wish I could have stayed longer.  Really wish I could try Dave with them.  As it was, I was really impressed (mind blown) with a yggy setup with lots of power and signal conditioning and also very, very much liked the Eddie Current Balancing Act fed from a PS Audio DAC.  Way different setups, but I couldn't know which I prefer without hours and hours of sampling both.  Everybody that could try the phi in the short time I was there liked them.  Awesome.


Does the BA have enough power to drive the Phi?  My impression is that one needs a lot more power to drive the Phi properly.


----------



## drew911d

cacatalysis said:


> Does the BA have enough power to drive the Phi?  My impression is that one needs a lot more power to drive the Phi properly.




We took a chance, thinking it might not be enough.  Happily, it sounded very nice with the volume at 2 o'clock.  It did seem to require more careful placement over our ears though, to find the sweet spot of great sound.  More power would be better, but it was a nice experience for my first head phone tube amp listen.


----------



## cacatalysis

drew911d said:


> We took a chance, thinking it might not be enough.  Happily, it sounded very nice with the volume at 2 o'clock.  It did seem to require more careful placement over our ears though, to find the sweet spot of great sound.  More power would be better, but it was a nice experience for my first head phone tube amp listen.


It is a very high entry point for your tube headamp listen.  I have a very rare, modded (done by Craig himself) BA to allow the use of PX25 tubes.  It is quite a bit more powerful with PX25 than other power tubes like PX4 or 300B.  I hope it is suitable for Phi.


----------



## jlbrach

the dave drives the Phi quite nicely.....an amp that doesnt disturb the marvelous transparency of the dave would be a positive


----------



## Beolab (Nov 3, 2017)

When i read “Abyss Phi + DAVE” comments makes me look back in the side mirror...: 

I just wish all of you could have a listen to my ever evolving rig, i have built and re-built over and over, so many times during the last 4-5 years now , so i have lost count. 
Today after all these years of testing out gear , tuning , and some more testing on what gives an effect on the sound and what does not , to find the balance between cost / performance in every part i think i am almost begin to reach the top of the mountain, and start to feel satisfied, and i am very hard to please when it comes to sound.. 



The sound and synergy today is so far beyond the sound i had for 1,5-2 year ago with Abyss + DAVE ( +Headtrip as an option ) i had at that time, so it would be great fun to share a better than life experience from my point of view with you guys.. 

So i am a bit sad, that you guys can not here it out just, and it does not do justice to record it either.. 

So how does it sound then you may ask?? 

In short: 

The sound is better than live experience, effortless , big, holographic fluid,  dynamic in every respect,  not overly bright, or hard or any inconvenient artefact at all, just pure balanced and perfect with musicality, timbre,  great impact and timing and depth, as the sound was intended to, or was it really this good in the studio  ?

But it do exist 100.000 Dollar +++ rigs here in this forum? Yes it does, but i have found the perfect balance for me when it comes to the synergy / performance per dollar i think. 

The sound of the Abyss Phi (and many more high end headphones i have tested) are maxed out in almost every respect with todays High End Tech and for what they can deliver, i can tell without being noble or brag. 



So a mile stone have bin achieved here for me, but not for my bank account...  

I do not want any applauds or anything, i  just felt i need to share this to you guys. 

It has been a fun ride and a roller-coster where everything comes to an end, so i just going to sit tight in the chair and listen and relax a little while now, and i will consider if i sell it or what i do.. 

(Just to clarify:
I am not using DAVE any more )


----------



## mulder01

Beolab said:


> When i read “Abyss Phi + DAVE” comments makes me look back in the side mirror...:
> 
> I just wish all of you could have a listen to my ever evolving rig, i have built and re-built over and over, so many times during the last 4-5 years now , so i have lost count.
> Today after all these years of testing out gear , tuning , and some more testing on what gives an effect on the sound and what does not , to find the balance between cost / performance in every part i think i am almost begin to reach the top of the mountain, and start to feel satisfied, and i am very hard to please when it comes to sound..
> ...



Did I miss what you are currently using?  Dave + Moon 600i?


----------



## Beolab (Nov 3, 2017)

mulder01 said:


> Did I miss what you are currently using?  Dave + Moon 600i?




I think i was not clear in my text, and yes i am NOT using the DAVE any longer, what i am saying is that i have gone beyond the DAVE sound, and i actually do not find the synergy with DAVE + Abyss to be as good vs my new setup dCS Rossini + dCS Master Clock  5.6 Mhz + dCS Network clock Bridge + CAD gc3 Earthing box + Moon 600i V2 dual mono setup using Fiber optic Cisco media converters in single mode to the dCS streamer to get a perfect galvanic shield from the Router. Battery drive for the media converters TX + RT and router and many more tweaks to accomplish this perfect for my ears balanced synergy.

This setup could be a reference rig for JPS Labs to test out, but it does not comes for free, but maybe if Diana start toll sell like hot cup cakes..


----------



## mulder01

Bloody hell.  
Interesting that you have ended up back at the Moon 600i.  If I remember correctly, you bought that fairly early on, and have had pretty much every high end headphone amp on the market in that time but have gone back to the moon.  Pretty special amp huh?


----------



## Beolab (Nov 8, 2017)

Yes it is the new 600i V2 , not the old 600i.
Had the 700i home for testing also, but it sounds a bit to thick and to full, so you miss out slightly in the airiness and vividness, so my money fell on the new V2 edition instead.

Then i got one more secret ingredient, an external analog filter i am testing out for more musicality, but it is not ready for the market yet, but soon.


----------



## Blitzula

Beolab said:


> I think i was not clear in my text, and yes i am NOT using the DAVE any longer, what i am saying is that i have gone beyond the DAVE sound, and i actually do not find the synergy with DAVE + Abyss to be as good vs my new setup dCS Rossini + dCS Master Clock  5.6 Mhz + dCS Network clock Bridge + CAD gc3 Earthing box + Moon 600i V2 dual mono setup using Fiber optic Cisco media converters in single mode to the dCS streamer to get a perfect galvanic shield from the Router. Battery drive for the media converters TX + RT and router and many more tweaks to accomplish this perfect for my ears balanced synergy.



Looked up the components, and that's quite the setup. Do you find a good deal of incremental sound value for the amount spent? Or is that needed to chase a smaller percentage of improvement? 

I'm wondering if you...as someone who's gone up the chain with hi-end stuff...find the returns to be diminishing. Or if you do.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Tokyo Fujiya-Avic headphone show pix here...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dia...abyss-headphones.777618/page-34#post-13835760


----------



## Beolab (Nov 8, 2017)

Blitzula said:


> Looked up the components, and that's quite the setup. Do you find a good deal of incremental sound value for the amount spent? Or is that needed to chase a smaller percentage of improvement?
> 
> I'm wondering if you...as someone who's gone up the chain with hi-end stuff...find the returns to be diminishing. Or if you do.



It is easier to say you can not get this type of sound with a less graded system or a DAP etc, so i cant masseur it in percentage, because it sound in a different way, and maxing out the headphones to its full potential or over its potential, i have discovered.


----------



## Blitzula

Beolab said:


> It is easier to say you can not get this type of sound with a less graded system or a DAP etc, so i cant masseur it in percentage, because it sound in a different way, and maxing out the headphones to its full potential or over its potential, i have discovered.



Gotcha. Did you find the Abyss scales well with differing equipment levels? More or less so than other headphones you've had?


----------



## jscmd2000

jlbrach said:


> the dave drives the Phi quite nicely.....an amp that doesnt disturb the marvelous transparency of the dave would be a positive



So the dave drives the phi nicely, but does it drive them sufficiently, with depth and authority?  In other words, when you listen to your phi, do you prefer to listen straight out of dave or do you prefer an amp in the mix?  

I am a big fan of Chord products and really like the direction they are headed.  Also a big fan of A&K.  The hugo 2 and sp1000 sound very similar to my ears, I think I would have hard time telling them apart in a blind test. I am also considering a dedicated, not integrated, headphone amp and have narrowed down to a few, including the moon neo 430 that you own.  But, I have a feeling I will eventually get the dave somewhere down the line, maybe when I am inebriated, but if you tell me that you don't need an amp with the dave, I think I will redirect my energy and be tremendously grateful.


----------



## jlbrach

you dont need the amp and yes the dave drives the Phi very well....my 430 creates a different presentation which is also outstanding but not necessary....the dave is more transparent without it


----------



## jscmd2000

Wow, back to the drawing board... Thanks!


----------



## jlbrach

dont get me wrong,the 430 sounds great with the dave...it is just a different sound,not as transparent...more muscular and a bit larger


----------



## jscmd2000

I think I get it... sounds powerful and big but lose that chord magic


----------



## jmills8

jscmd2000 said:


> So the dave drives the phi nicely, but does it drive them sufficiently, with depth and authority?  In other words, when you listen to your phi, do you prefer to listen straight out of dave or do you prefer an amp in the mix?
> 
> I am a big fan of Chord products and really like the direction they are headed.  Also a big fan of A&K.  The hugo 2 and sp1000 sound very similar to my ears, I think I would have hard time telling them apart in a blind test. I am also considering a dedicated, not integrated, headphone amp and have narrowed down to a few, including the moon neo 430 that you own.  But, I have a feeling I will eventually get the dave somewhere down the line, maybe when I am inebriated, but if you tell me that you don't need an amp with the dave, I think I will redirect my energy and be tremendously grateful.


The Hugo 2 cant.


----------



## Beolab

jscmd2000 said:


> So the dave drives the phi nicely, but does it drive them sufficiently, with depth and authority?  In other words, when you listen to your phi, do you prefer to listen straight out of dave or do you prefer an amp in the mix?
> 
> I am a big fan of Chord products and really like the direction they are headed.  Also a big fan of A&K.  The hugo 2 and sp1000 sound very similar to my ears, I think I would have hard time telling them apart in a blind test. I am also considering a dedicated, not integrated, headphone amp and have narrowed down to a few, including the moon neo 430 that you own.  But, I have a feeling I will eventually get the dave somewhere down the line, maybe when I am inebriated, but if you tell me that you don't need an amp with the dave, I think I will redirect my energy and be tremendously grateful.



DAVE drive them to high volumes yes with great transparancy, but not with great authority i can honestly say,


----------



## jscmd2000

Beolab said:


> DAVE drive them to high volumes yes with great transparancy, but not with great authority i can honestly say,



Is there an amp that will preserve its transparency and drive with authority?  I understand that all amps add something to the sq however little that may be.  Which amp would have good "synergy" with the dave?  Ideally something neutral, but isn't the neo moon 430 as neutral as they come?


----------



## jlbrach

the 430 is terrific but there are always trade offs...yes you get more authority but you also lose transparency...up to you as to which matters more....in my case since the dave drives my phi's quite nicely the transparency wins out but i can imagine somebody with a different opinion


----------



## Beolab (Nov 9, 2017)

It is as always a matter of taste.


I personally got small amps like DAPś, Chord Mojo , AudioQuest Dragonfly RED, and a Cavalli Carbon etc.. laying around, and yes they can make a sound through the Abyss, but it is like installing a Honda 1.6i engine in a Ferrari chassis, it will look like a Ferrari and handle like one, but without power and the magical sound. You will only use about 40-50% of the max potential. 


Do you want it clinical with a over the top to linear sound like in the studio, then go with DAVE, or a warmer sound with great impact , imagine and authority, then go with an SS or Tube amp for better synergy, or use a good EQ with DAVE.


A great transparancy amp, is not growing on threes, but a near perfect amp according to messaurments is the Benchmark Amp AHB2,  that have been developed together in conjunction with THX. That is at the moment the best measuring and most transparent amp money can buy, for zero transparency loss.


I havent heard it, so i cant say i recommend it, but because it is almost 100% transparent to the source, it should not have an “own” sound or tone at all.



Then if we look at other more cost effective amps, i can highly recommend the Ifi Ican Pro , that is a great powerful amp i have listening to, and here you can custom the sound to your own taste.


----------



## Xecuter

The moon 430 is good, very neutral but a bit dull on top. With live recordings it really lacks that energetic feel I can only find with tubes.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Xecuter said:


> The moon 430 is good, very neutral but a bit dull on top. With live recordings it really lacks that energetic feel I can only find with tubes.



If an amp is neutral, then isn't your complain with the recording instead? Being neutral means flat and playing what the artist intended. That is my ultimate goal and why I own the gear that I do (for the most part...I do love some colourations like those provided by the Sony Z1R for example).


----------



## Xecuter

The 430 is neutral in tuning, for the mids with maybe slight bass emphasis. It just lacked high extensions which is fairly normal for most amplifiers..
'neutral' varies a fair bit in this hobby, the gsx-1mkii was no where near neutral for me. It was bright, thin, harsh and glarey. However many consider a great neutral reference amplifier.


----------



## jscmd2000

Good to see you MH  
So, what is your favorite way to listen to your Phi and the Dave?  Maybe you don't... or have you discovered a better combo perhaps?  
Sorry to report, I no longer own the Z1R.  Loved listening to Mode and Gaga with them, but the violins sounded distorted to my ears and couldn't listen to any classical which for me is about 90%. Once again, no hp is for everyone.  So I am looking for another pair of closed cans.


----------



## MacedonianHero (Nov 9, 2017)

Xecuter said:


> The 430 is neutral in tuning, for the mids with maybe slight bass emphasis. It just lacked high extensions which is fairly normal for most amplifiers..
> 'neutral' varies a fair bit in this hobby, the gsx-1mkii was no where near neutral for me. It was bright, thin, harsh and glarey. However many consider a great neutral reference amplifier.



Here's the GS-X Mk2 measurements:

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HeadAmpGSXmk2.pdf

Notice the dead flat FR response and incredibly low distortion. Tube amps can be tuned to be neutral, no doubt. But the tube amp being used makes the HD800 headphones sound "smooth" then that's a colouration. As well, no tube amp can approach the low levels of distortion compared to a well designed ss amp. Just the limitations with tubes....but the distortion introduced by tubes can certainly sound inviting (though definitely not transparent to the recording or more "neutral").

Nothing bright, harsh, nor glarey...feed it with a bright source, DAC or music and it will reveal what comes in. Play it with the HD800s (or other bright sounding headphones and amps like the 430 or GS-X Mk2), it will reveal them for what they are. Thus the "wire-with-gain" comments and Kevin Gilmore amps are very much like that (including the BHSE).

In fact, when I compare the Abyss-Phi straight out of the DAVE or with the GS-X Mk2 in between them, the tonality doesn't change...just slightly improved control of the drivers yielding in a better perception of detail retrieval and control (though not night and day improved perception by any means). And to my ears, the DAVE is as neutral as any gear I've come across.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jscmd2000 said:


> Good to see you MH
> So, what is your favorite way to listen to your Phi and the Dave?  Maybe you don't... or have you discovered a better combo perhaps?
> Sorry to report, I no longer own the Z1R.  Loved listening to Mode and Gaga with them, but the violins sounded distorted to my ears and couldn't listen to any classical which for me is about 90%. Once again, no hp is for everyone.  So I am looking for another pair of closed cans.



I love the DAVE/Abyss-Phi combination, but I do prefer the added power provided by the GS-X mk2 with these headphones (and the LCD-4s too). The Z1R + DAVE is the best I've heard the Sony's sound FWIW.


----------



## jscmd2000

MacedonianHero said:


> I love the DAVE/Abyss-Phi combination, but I do prefer the added power provided by the GS-X mk2 with these headphones (and the LCD-4s too). The Z1R + DAVE is the best I've heard the Sony's sound FWIW.



So, you don't think the GS-X mk2 takes away anything from the dave such as transparency or anything pertaining to the dave's sq?  I doubt it messes with the accuracy since that is one of its strengths.  Have you tried any other amps with the phi that you liked?


----------



## MacedonianHero

jscmd2000 said:


> So, you don't think the GS-X mk2 takes away anything from the dave such as transparency or anything pertaining to the dave's sq?  I doubt it messes with the accuracy since that is one of its strengths.  Have you tried any other amps with the phi that you liked?



Like most things in life...it depends. I’m thi case it really depends on your headphones and how much power they need. 

As mentioned, I slightly prefer the DAVE / GS-X combo with the LCD-4 and Abyss Phi. All of my other headphones I only use the DAVE.


----------



## jokostyle

MacedonianHero said:


> Like most things in life...it depends. I’m thi case it really depends on your headphones and how much power they need.
> 
> As mentioned, I slightly prefer the DAVE / GS-X combo with the LCD-4 and Abyss Phi. All of my other headphones I only use the DAVE.



Hi,

Did you have the opportunity to try your Phi with the XI Audio Formulas S amp  ( conceived with the Abyss in mind ) ? I haven't seen so much mentions about it but it was described as probably (?one of?) the most powerful ( able to drive the Susvara at high volume without distorsion ) and 'neutral' SS amp. As the acclaimed king of these was/is the GS-X...

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Xecuter

MacedonianHero said:


> Here's the GS-X Mk2 measurements:
> 
> https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HeadAmpGSXmk2.pdf
> 
> ...




If this discussion could be ended with some measurements this would be a very boring hobby indeed.

Honestly I don't believe that all tube amps/equipment introduce more distortion than SS. This misconception is usually due to exposure to OTL, or badly designed tube amplifiers with cheap transformers and poor design. The level of 'transparency' or more interesting to me of micro detail retrieval in exceptional tube amplifiers beats all SS amplifiers in my exposure to equipment.
I completely agree that a reavealing amplifier will expose a bad transducer. Unfortunately the gsx introduced a level of glare to all transducers I tried it with. 

The rag is probably still the least coloured SS I've used. Its just about picky with power and source..


That why I haven't bother spending more money on SS..


----------



## Beolab (Nov 10, 2017)

jscmd2000 said:


> Good to see you MH
> So, what is your favorite way to listen to your Phi and the Dave?  Maybe you don't... or have you discovered a better combo perhaps?
> Sorry to report, I no longer own the Z1R.  Loved listening to Mode and Gaga with them, but the violins sounded distorted to my ears and couldn't listen to any classical which for me is about 90%. Once again, no hp is for everyone.  So I am looking for another pair of closed cans.



If you read my earlier post 1 page back, you can see what i am using right know, and yes i am not using Dave any more, because of the lack of synergy with the Abyss Phi, it needs more dynamic body and musicality fluidness / richness etc, to match perfect.

I have find the right balance with my current setup in my opinion. It plays like the a reference rig, where all registers are presented with great authority and great resolution / timing precision and musicality.


----------



## mulder01

All you need is...


----------



## Beolab (Nov 10, 2017)

That is correct understood!

When you approaching the end of the line for what is possible, then it beginning to cost you allot to gain the last percentage. 

Like my dog who is very glad for his dry dog food he eats every day, not knowing of anything better.


----------



## jscmd2000

hahaha  seriously! 
Benchmark Amp AHB2 looks and sounds interesting but can you use it for headphones?
iFi pro... is that what you are using now?  I am starting to think if I want to stick with the Dave, then utopia may be a better choice than the Phi.


----------



## Mystel

Personally i prefer the pairing of phi + dave to utopia + dave, by a pretty large margin


----------



## MacedonianHero (Nov 10, 2017)

Xecuter said:


> If this discussion could be ended with some measurements this would be a very boring hobby indeed.
> 
> Honestly I don't believe that all tube amps/equipment introduce more distortion than SS. This misconception is usually due to exposure to OTL, or badly designed tube amplifiers with cheap transformers and poor design. The level of 'transparency' or more interesting to me of micro detail retrieval in exceptional tube amplifiers beats all SS amplifiers in my exposure to equipment.
> I completely agree that a reavealing amplifier will expose a bad transducer. Unfortunately the gsx introduced a level of glare to all transducers I tried it with.
> ...



When it comes to distortion, measurements are quite necessary. Look I’ve owned many tube amps for 25 + years and enjoyed my time with them, but no doubt a good ss amp is cleaner. And pretty much every measurement I’ve seen shows significantly reduced distortion (not just OTL)...it’s just physics. The ideal is changing your mind to conform with the evidence of reality instead of the other way around...and measurements can help. But measuring headphones has somewhat proven to be a mystical art depending on too many variables to get right. Thankfully Jude and the Head-Fi folks have some killer equipment and are doing some good work here. While some prefer this higher distortion as it can sound quite pleasing and I totally get it. Been thinking of adding a tube amp (ampsandsound most likely) to my rack. Any glare with the gs-x is most likely indicative of what's upstream...that's the limitation of "wire with gain"; it won't hide anything. I think this is a strength, but others prefer a different route. Different strokes, etc...

FWIW, I really like the Rag and hold it in high regard, but to my ears it is a darker than neutral amplifier with plenty of punch. But as a reviewer I want to hear exactly what a pair of headphones (or DAC) is about and I get too much of this warmer character with the Rag that clouds things. The GS-X MK2 is more transparent and cleaner in this area.

And my post didn’t just end with measurements, but comments about sonics compared to the DAVE. Both first hand experiences and measurements pretty much lined up. . Thank goodness measuring amps/DACs is not as ridiculously nutty as headphones.


----------



## jscmd2000

Mystel said:


> Personally i prefer the pairing of phi + dave to utopia + dave, by a pretty large margin



Interesting...  thanks!


----------



## MacedonianHero

jokostyle said:


> Hi,
> 
> Did you have the opportunity to try your Phi with the XI Audio Formulas S amp  ( conceived with the Abyss in mind ) ? I haven't seen so much mentions about it but it was described as probably (?one of?) the most powerful ( able to drive the Susvara at high volume without distorsion ) and 'neutral' SS amp. As the acclaimed king of these was/is the GS-X...
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Sorry, I haven't heard that amp yet...looks like a beast though!


----------



## cradon

Mystel said:


> Personally i prefer the pairing of phi + dave to utopia + dave, by a pretty large margin


I agree.


----------



## jlbrach

MacedonianHero said:


> Like most things in life...it depends. I’m thi case it really depends on your headphones and how much power they need.
> 
> As mentioned, I slightly prefer the DAVE / GS-X combo with the LCD-4 and Abyss Phi. All of my other headphones I only use the DAVE.



I have the greatest of respect for Macedonianhero and think he is a great reviewer and even nicer guy but in this case i tend to disagree...I think the Phi sounds better straight from the Dave.....sounds like you are in the studio.....in terms of Phi vs Utopia,as one who owns both I think Phi is quite a bit better but very different.I love the efficiency  of the Utopia and i think it sounds great out of the Hugo 2 which the Phi cant really do....the Utopia is in your face and incredibly dynamic with a smallish soundstage.....I do understand why many would prefer the sound of the Utopia but to me the Phi has better bass and a better soundstage and holds its own in terms of detail...


----------



## mulder01

MacedonianHero said:


> The idea is changing your mind to conform with the evidence of reality instead of the other way around...and measurements can help.



Nahhhhhhh.... I see where you're coming from as a reviewer, but as a consumer, buy what you like, not what measures well.

If you listen to two products and like A better than B, but B measures better, so you buy B and try to convince yourself you enjoy it more than A because it measures better or has better professional reviews, that's the biggest mistake I think newcomers make.  

I understand that reviewers and industry professionals need to know a centre point so they can ascertain how much other products deviate from that point.  But if you are a regular guy who got into this hobby through a love of music, then I think it's important not to get sucked into the pursuit of "neutrality" and "correctness".  I think that most people who have stumbled across head fi and fell down the rabbit hole, first ended up here because they like listening to music and wanted to know what was a good pair of headphones under say $300 or $500 and it escalates from there.  

If we only went by measurements then all of us would own the same pair of headphones.  Where in reality it's down to a matter of taste, and "good gear" is just as subjective as "good music".


----------



## jmills8

jlbrach said:


> I have the greatest of respect for Macedonianhero and think he is a great reviewer and even nicer guy but in this case i tend to disagree...I think the Phi sounds better straight from the Dave.....sounds like you are in the studio.....in terms of Phi vs Utopia,as one who owns both I think Phi is quite a bit better but very different.I love the efficiency  of the Utopia and i think it sounds great out of the Hugo 2 which the Phi cant really do....the Utopia is in your face and incredibly dynamic with a smallish soundstage.....I do understand why many would prefer the sound of the Utopia but to me the Phi has better bass and a better soundstage and holds its own in terms of detail...


Maybe your music has no bass.


----------



## MacedonianHero

mulder01 said:


> Nahhhhhhh.... I see where you're coming from as a reviewer, but as a consumer, buy what you like, not what measures well.
> 
> If you listen to two products and like A better than B, but B measures better, so you buy B and try to convince yourself you enjoy it more than A because it measures better or has better professional reviews, that's the biggest mistake I think newcomers make.
> 
> ...



Just don't forget HiFi stands for high fidelity...and that's to the source material.   But by all means, everyone should go with what they like.


----------



## Beolab

jscmd2000 said:


> hahaha  seriously!
> Benchmark Amp AHB2 looks and sounds interesting but can you use it for headphones?
> iFi pro... is that what you are using now?  I am starting to think if I want to stick with the Dave, then utopia may be a better choice than the Phi.



No, i am using a DCS + Moon 600i V2 if you have read 1 page back as i said.

I dont think the Utopia or any headphone sounds at its best straight from DAVE actually.


----------



## chaojiliqilin

Beolab said:


> No, i am using a DCS + Moon 600i V2 if you have read 1 page back as i said.
> 
> I dont think the Utopia or any headphone sounds at its best straight from DAVE actually.




Wow! I am very curious about how to use a integrated amplifier to drive a pair of headphones. Do you connect phi to the speaker output ports of 600i v2? Is the control of volume very difficult since the amp is very powerful?


----------



## Beolab (Nov 11, 2017)

You need just a 4x Banana - 4pin XLR adapter cable.

 no problem, the amp got an optical volume control with 532 steps, and -10db to +15 db gain.

The steps are 0.1db, each step.


----------



## fredfung28

Hi I just ordered a 1266 phi and would like to know if 1266 phi is good with gsx mk2 or not.
I have searched the forum but didn’t get some answers. Have anyone tried it? And what’s the result? Thank you!


----------



## m17xr2b

If you search the forum you will find the gsx is not highly regarded for the Abyss. I asked the same question about a year ago.


----------



## fredfung28

m17xr2b said:


> If you search the forum you will find the gsx is not highly regarded for the Abyss. I asked the same question about a year ago.


That’s sad... I need to buy a new amp for abyss...


----------



## m17xr2b

I can recommend the Moon 600i if you can find one for sale, it does a great job and is easily better and my WA5 with top glass.


----------



## fredfung28

m17xr2b said:


> I can recommend the Moon 600i if you can find one for sale, it does a great job and is easily better and my WA5 with top glass.


May I know why gsx mk2 is not good for abyss?
My current set up is like this.


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## fredfung28 (Nov 13, 2017)

m17xr2b said:


> I can recommend the Moon 600i if you can find one for sale, it does a great job and is easily better and my WA5 with top glass.


But isn’t it the 600i is an integrated amp? Not headphone amp? So you use rca at the back? I did not see any xlr output or 6.3mm output? Am I correct?


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## m17xr2b (Nov 13, 2017)

The 600i is an integrated. I use a norne headphone cable, cut of the headphone connectors and connected them directly to the speaker taps of the amp and reterminated it to a female XLR. This way I can use the 600i as a speaker amp as I build a XLR adaptor for my speakers.


fredfung28 said:


> May I know why gsx mk2 is not good for abyss?


I haven't listened myself to the GSX on the abyss  but I wasn't terribly  impressed while I owned it.  If you have the GSX there is nothing wrong with it if you enjoy it. Try to listen to other gear and make an impression for yourself. In my case the 600i is head and shoulders above everything else but that does not mean I don't listened to my other amps. Even the trilogy does a great job and gives me 85% of what the Moon can do. Also having a remote for the volume is great.


----------



## fredfung28

m17xr2b said:


> The 600i is an integrated. I use a norne headphone cable, cut of the headphone connectors and connected them directly to the speaker taps of the amp and reterminated it to a female XLR. This way I can use the 600i as a speaker amp as I build a XLR adaptor for my speakers.
> 
> I haven't listened myself to the GSX on the abyss  but I wasn't terribly  impressed while I owned it.  If you have the GSX there is nothing wrong with it if you enjoy it. Try to listen to other gear and make an impression for yourself. In my case the 600i is head and shoulders above everything else but that does not mean I don't listened to my other amps. Even the trilogy does a great job and gives me 85% of what the Moon can do. Also having a remote for the volume is great.


Sorry.. I don’t understand how it works.. could you take a photo of the backside of 600i?
So You modified the 600i to have a xlr output? Is that what you mean?


----------



## m17xr2b

I just built a cable to connect the headphones to the 600i. Something like this http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BtPX7tg4Eyw/US-rayySUlI/AAAAAAAABVQ/iA6eHyrGjoE/s320/4Pin2SpadesFull.jpg


----------



## fredfung28

m17xr2b said:


> I just built a cable to connect the headphones to the 600i. Something like this http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BtPX7tg4Eyw/US-rayySUlI/AAAAAAAABVQ/iA6eHyrGjoE/s320/4Pin2SpadesFull.jpg


Wow... so the end of the cable is actually the plug of speakers, and the other end is


m17xr2b said:


> I just built a cable to connect the headphones to the 600i. Something like this http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BtPX7tg4Eyw/US-rayySUlI/AAAAAAAABVQ/iA6eHyrGjoE/s320/4Pin2SpadesFull.jpg


Wow.. really a smart way to use this amp. I saw they have a 600i v2 just came out, will you go for it?


----------



## m17xr2b

No chance. I got mine for 3K which is half of the new price. I doubt the V2 will be enough of an improvement to justify it.


----------



## fredfung28

m17xr2b said:


> No chance. I got mine for 3K which is half of the new price. I doubt the V2 will be enough of an improvement to justify it.


wow.. thats really a nice price.
Why do you guys occur the idea of using the integrated amp as a headphone amp?
I saw there is an advance model call 700i also, have you guys tried it?


----------



## mulder01

If you have the GSX, why not just try it?  If you bought and use the amp, you must like it right?


----------



## jlbrach

I have used the Moon 430 along with my dave with my Phi although I tend to use the dave by itself far more....i see no reason why the gsx would not be a fine complement to the Phi


----------



## FLTWS

Placed my order for a Phi earlier today. Should be in the abyss before Xmas.


----------



## jscmd2000

Congrats to you, sir! 
Looking forward to your impressions.
Cheers,


----------



## MacedonianHero (Nov 13, 2017)

m17xr2b said:


> If you search the forum you will find the gsx is not highly regarded for the Abyss. I asked the same question about a year ago.



The GS-X Mk2 is ruthlessly revealing of both upstream gear/sources and headphones. The previous version of the Phi (just the Abyss) was quite impressive, but had some issues with the upper mids/treble. The GS-X MK2 will not "smooth" this over like say a tube amplifier or darker sounding solid state option. The Abyss-Phi have outstandingly articulated mids/treble and the GS-X Mk2 really let's this shine through in full glory. I'm loving what I'm hearing with my GS-X MK2 and Abyss-Phi headphones right now as I write this. Pink Floyd's DSoTM has never sounded better in fact!

I'm comparing this to many other amps I've heard with these headphones (like the Liquid Gold and Wells Enigma/HeadTrip, WA33, WA234) and the GS-X Mk2 is simply magical (like all of these amplifiers)! Please keep in mind that the HeadAmp is also a "wire-with-gain" based design (and the measurements bare this out) and you'll need to make sure your front end is "there" for you too. FWIW, I'm running a Chord DAVE (balanced) into the GS-X Mk2 (and balanced out into the Abyss-Phi).


----------



## fredfung28

MacedonianHero said:


> The GS-X Mk2 is ruthlessly revealing of both upstream gear/sources and headphones. The previous version of the Phi (just the Abyss) was quite impressive, but had some issues with the upper mids/treble. The GS-X MK2 will not "smooth" this over like say a tube amplifier or darker sounding solid state option. The Abyss-Phi have outstandingly articulated mids/treble and the GS-X Mk2 really let's this shine through in full glory. I'm loving what I'm hearing with my GS-X MK2 and Abyss-Phi headphones right now as I write this. Pink Floyd's DSoTM has never sounded better in fact!
> 
> I'm comparing this to many other amps I've heard with these headphones (like the Liquid Gold and Wells Enigma/HeadTrip, WA33, WA234) and the GS-X Mk2 is simply magical (like all of these amplifiers)! Please keep in mind that the HeadAmp is also a "wire-with-gain" based design (and the measurements bare this out) and you'll need to make sure your front end is "there" for you too. FWIW, I'm running a Chord DAVE (balanced) into the GS-X Mk2 (and balanced out into the Abyss-Phi).


Glad to know this! May I know what gain option are you using? 
I am waiting for my abyss to arrive, hope the gsx is good for it!
I think my source is quite good, using emmlabs Dac2x v2 and wavedream net as server.. 
TAralabs xlr is really good when I plugged it in!
If you guys have chances to try, please try the 30 limited edition, dealer said it is close to zero gold g2


----------



## fredfung28

mulder01 said:


> If you have the GSX, why not just try it?  If you bought and use the amp, you must like it right?


I will try it once I get my 1266 phi!! Thank you!


----------



## MacedonianHero

fredfung28 said:


> Glad to know this! May I know what gain option are you using?
> I am waiting for my abyss to arrive, hope the gsx is good for it!
> I think my source is quite good, using emmlabs Dac2x v2 and wavedream net as server..
> TAralabs xlr is really good when I plugged it in!
> If you guys have chances to try, please try the 30 limited edition, dealer said it is close to zero gold g2



Actually on high gain. Brilliant pairing so far!


----------



## Xecuter

Man I thought the wa33 was the best amp of the year. Haven't tried the 600i V2 but I wasn't a fan of the 430 or the 600i (with speakers).

I dislike the wire with gain term. Everything imposes a change on the signal (even the wire lol), it's just a meme thing and doesn't exist. The gsx and bhse both have a signature which to my ears is etched with any good upstream (this was actually discussed very early on in this thread if you care to search).

My advice to those amp shopping is to visit stores and friends with amps and have extended auditions before spending any money.
Al


----------



## MacedonianHero (Nov 13, 2017)

It's certainly not "just a meme" based on my years of experiences with it and trying many upstream sources or headphones as it's my prime amplifier for reviews for both DACs and headphones. The measurements bare this out as well as I mentioned earlier:

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HeadAmpGSXmk2.pdf

Of all amplifiers I've tried, the GS-X MK2 and BHSE are two of the best that offer the least amount of colouration. As mentioned, when I compare the GSX Mk2 with the DAVE vs. just the DAVE, there is no "etch" on either setup and the GSX let's he DAVE's sound play through with just a bit better grip of the drivers due to the 5W of additional power on tap with higher resolution music. But if I put a DAC that sounds bright (or play poorly engineered music) with it, the GS-X won't cover this up and frankly, I don't want an amplifier or DAC that will.

I'm not a proponent of finding coloured gear to tweak to a particular pair of headphones due to the number different sounding of headphones I have (or will purchase down the road). I prefer neutral, clean and transparent.

But I agree with your last comment...auditioning for one's self is optimal.


----------



## Xecuter

The o2 was 'wire with gain' as well. The 'measurements' supported this claim, yet it sounded harsh, glarey and lacked any real detail retrieval.
I thought after as many years of experience you have under your belt, you would have noticed that _not all that measures well performs as such_. Also we can't actually measure the really interesting stuff like staging, micro detail retrieval etc..
The Abyss measures woefully, however those of here who looked passed her cover, realised this headphone was as close as we could get to 2.0 without being in 2.0...
Same goes for amps, the only way to assess it is to listen - of course with good upstream, good media, the best transducers..

"The "wire with gain" thing comes in as a handy excuse to blame an amp's crappy sound on the source."

Almost all my friends who adopted the gsx-mkii have sold it and moved on after owning more gear, I'm not saying you're wrong mate. I'm just suggesting it might not be THE go to amp recommendation these days, I do however, think it not as 'transparent' as you believe.
The BHSE is actually very average, the lack of competition in stat amps is half the reason it's so over-hyped.
The MSB stat amp isquirrel owns is so far beyond the BHSE it's not even funny. The t2/stax t1 are also better than the BHSE IMO. The other reason for the over-hype is the limited technical capability of stat headphones.

Anyway, we obviously like very different stuff, which is great!


----------



## MacedonianHero (Nov 14, 2017)

Xecuter said:


> The o2 was 'wire with gain' as well. The 'measurements' supported this claim, yet it sounded harsh, glarey and lacked any real detail retrieval.
> I thought after as many years of experience you have under your belt, you would have noticed that _not all that measures well performs as such_. Also we can't actually measure the really interesting stuff like staging, micro detail retrieval etc..
> The Abyss measures woefully, however those of here who looked passed her cover, realised this headphone was as close as we could get to 2.0 without being in 2.0...
> Same goes for amps, the only way to assess it is to listen - of course with good upstream, good media, the best transducers..
> ...



See my many reviews of many different amps, DACs and headphones have only reinforced the chameleon nature of the GS-X. It’s sounded quite differently depending on what I’ve had in front of it or what was plugged into it. It’s offered as little of its own character into the mix like no other.

And back to the measurements of the amp, ideally one’s views are changed by the evidence of reality and not the other way arourd.  dead flat FR response and stupendously low distortion are what we are after in an amplifier. If you’re after a warmer sound, then I’d steer you away from the ruthless transparency of the Dave or GS-X.

For my $, the BHSE is only bested by the T2 and most in the mafia would agree.


----------



## Xecuter (Nov 14, 2017)

"If you’re after a warmer sound, then I’d steer you away from the ruthless transparency of the Dave or GS-X. But looking at your rig, you did that already..."

nice jab. I'm guessing you've heard none of the stuff I own?

The mafia won't even listen to MSB stuff.. Just endless KG shilling


----------



## MacedonianHero

Xecuter said:


> "If you’re after a warmer sound, then I’d steer you away from the ruthless transparency of the Dave or GS-X. But looking at your rig, you did that already..."
> 
> nice jab. I'm guessing you've heard none of the stuff I own?
> 
> The mafia won't even listen to MSB stuff.. Just endless KG shilling



I don’t own the BHSE, but I’ve heard it many times and as stated, only the T2 surpasses it. And FTR, I preferred the LL2 to the KGSSHV.


----------



## Beolab

fredfung28 said:


> Sorry.. I don’t understand how it works.. could you take a photo of the backside of 600i?
> So You modified the 600i to have a xlr output? Is that what you mean?



I got one DHC Flagella 4x Banana plug to 4 pin XLR adapter for sale for a speaker amp if you are interested. 

You connect the banana plugs to the speaker outlets of the amp and the 4pin XLR female to the Abyss 4pin XLR headphone cable plug. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dhc-flagella-reference-occ-litz.861962/


----------



## fredfung28

Honestly I think there is nothing to argue.. everyone has its own point as you use your system with this amp is totally diff from others if the other components are diff.
Mi didn’t change any of my machines,  but I added ground boxes, changed power cords, xlr, aes and the sound is not even close to the previous setup... 
I think gsx or other amp has different sound if you use diff power cord and interconnects.. so I think we should just let it go?


----------



## fredfung28

Beolab said:


> I got one DHC Flagella 4x Banana plug to 4 pin XLR adapter for sale for a speaker amp if you are interested.
> 
> You connect the banana plugs to the speaker outlets of the amp and the 4pin XLR female to the Abyss 4pin XLR headphone cable plug.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dhc-flagella-reference-occ-litz.861962/


Sorry that I am using dual xlr plug with my dana and prion4s..


----------



## fredfung28

Just got my abyss 1266 phi today..!
Any recommendations on the headphone stand for it?


----------



## MacedonianHero

fredfung28 said:


> Just got my abyss 1266 phi today..!
> Any recommendations on the headphone stand for it?



Congrats! I normally lay them flat in a desk drawer when not in use, but use the Woo Audio stand for them when on my desk.


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## fredfung28 (Nov 14, 2017)

On my way back home... really looking forward to it!


----------



## phase0

fredfung28 said:


> Just got my abyss 1266 phi today..!
> Any recommendations on the headphone stand for it?



- Woo Audio HPS-R (That's what I have)
- Silverstone EBA01B (I think I got that right, is another popular option)

BTW congrats! I'm about two weeks into my Abyss ownership. I'm really enjoying them immensely like I don't think I need to worry about other headphones any more.


----------



## fredfung28

MacedonianHero said:


> Congrats! I normally lay them flat in a desk drawer when not in use, but use the Woo Audio stand for them when on my desk.


Woo audio stand? I should try to search for it
Because I think the stand of abyss seems a little bit unsafe.. it uses the headband as the way to stable it


----------



## fredfung28

How’s the sound when I haven’t run in it? How long do i need to run in it?


----------



## fredfung28

How’s the sound when I haven’t run in it? How long do i need to run in it?


----------



## drew911d

It took 30 hours for mine to start to open up, 100 or more to shine.  Before that you will seem to only get sound from a small area..


----------



## jlbrach (Nov 14, 2017)

as far as an amp to go along with the Phi and the Dave....I find that in most cases the dave drives the Phi quite nicely but in the case of some older recordings where the volumes are extremely low my Moon 430 enhances the experience....i find myself going back and forth depending on what I am listening to for the most part....i know that Rob Watts is adamant that an amo robs the dave of its transparency in all but the hardest to drive cases...as he described it 99% of the time


----------



## fredfung28

drew911d said:


> It took 30 hours for mine to start to open up, 100 or more to shine.  Before that you will seem to only get sound from a small area..


I have utopia with dhc prion 4s, the vocal is better than 1266 for now
As my 1266phi is a lite version and my adaptors haven’t arrived, so I will compare it afterwards.
But classical is so crazy with 1266phi even it hasn’t run in


----------



## Beolab

fredfung28 said:


> Sorry that I am using dual xlr plug with my dana and prion4s..



Just add a 1-2 XLR adapter and you are good to go


----------



## jscmd2000

How is the quality of the stock Abyss cable that comes in the light or deluxe package... ie not the superconductor cable in the complete package?  Do they sound like they need to be upgraded?  Has anyone compared the Abyss superconductor cable and the Lazuli reference cable?


----------



## FLTWS

jscmd2000 said:


> How is the quality of the stock Abyss cable that comes in the light or deluxe package... ie not the superconductor cable in the complete package?  Do they sound like they need to be upgraded?  Has anyone compared the Abyss superconductor cable and the Lazuli reference cable?



My understanding is the cable provided with Lite and Delux cable is the same and termination is at the customers request when ordered. The SC only comes with the Complete but can be ordered separately as well. The standard cable does not need upgrading, I based my decision to buy based on the stock cable.


----------



## jscmd2000

That is very good to know!!


----------



## FLTWS

I will probably post impressions of my 2 week demo tomorrow.


----------



## fredfung28

FLTWS said:


> I will probably post impressions of my 2 week demo tomorrow.


Abyss 1266 phi is crazy with classical... the strings imaging is the closest so far...


----------



## drew911d

I bought the lite version as well, still using stock cable.  It's a very good cable.  I've heard someone (beolab?) say the stock cable is better sound than superconductor.  Only prion 4 beat it.  I am also interested in Lazuli Reference comparisons as I haven't seen any for Abyss Phi.


----------



## MacedonianHero

fredfung28 said:


> Abyss 1266 phi is crazy with classical... the strings imaging is the closest so far...



You should try it with some Metallica!   Seriously, they've been incredibly impressive with anything I've thrown at them so far. Tonight is the (gulp...doesn't seem that long!) 30th Anniversary of "Master of Puppets" and my head won't stop bobbing! After last night with some DSD Mahler recordings, these headphones truly run the gambit.



drew911d said:


> I bought the lite version as well, still using stock cable.  It's a very good cable.  I've heard someone (beolab?) say the stock cable is better sound than superconductor.  Only prion 4 beat it.  I am also interested in Lazuli Reference comparisons as I haven't seen any for Abyss Phi.



Remember, JPS produces the Abyss and they are well renowned for their audio cables and I'm sure Joe put a lot of thought and care in the stock cable. I'm sure the Superconductor is something really special, but the stock cables are nothing to turn your nose up at (like say the stock cables on the Sony Z1R or Focal Utopia).


----------



## fredfung28 (Nov 14, 2017)

MacedonianHero said:


> You should try it with some Metallica!   Seriously, they've been incredibly impressive with anything I've thrown at them so far. Tonight is the (gulp...doesn't seem that long!) 30th Anniversary of "Master of Puppets" and my head won't stop bobbing! After last night with some DSD Mahler recordings, these headphones truly run the gambit.
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, JPS produces the Abyss and they are well renowned for their audio cables and I'm sure Joe put a lot of thought and care in the stock cable. I'm sure the Superconductor is something really special, but the stock cables are nothing to turn your nose up at (like say the stock cables on the Sony Z1R or Focal Utopia).


I compared it with a Utopia with prion 4s.. the string is just way better with abyss..
But for now.. as it is a stock cable and hasnt run in yet with 1266 phi, that might be the reason that the focal has better vocal presentation

I think there no problem with abyss with gsx mk2..! Using emmlabs dac2x v2 with gsx and 1266 sounds really good on different aspects.. I dont think it is not suitable for 1266 phi.. But maybe tube amp has more colour? I dont know, personally prefer clean no no coloration sound


----------



## MacedonianHero

fredfung28 said:


> I compared it with a Utopia with prion 4s.. the string is just way better with abyss..
> But for now.. as it is a stock cable and hasnt run in yet with 1266 phi, that might be the reason that the focal has better vocal presentation
> 
> I think there no problem with abyss with gsx mk2..!



I found about 30 hours or so and then the sound hasn't changed much since then.


----------



## fredfung28

MacedonianHero said:


> I found about 30 hours or so and then the sound hasn't changed much since then.


mine is just around 10 hours. So more to GO! I just ordered the adaptors from dhc for 1266, and also one pair from my country with furutech rhodium plug.. I dont know which is better, but I will try it both.


----------



## Beolab (Nov 14, 2017)

drew911d said:


> I bought the lite version as well, still using stock cable.  It's a very good cable.  I've heard someone (beolab?) say the stock cable is better sound than superconductor.  Only prion 4 beat it.  I am also interested in Lazuli Reference comparisons as I haven't seen any for Abyss Phi.



Better is hard to say in my opinion, and my best explination is that the Stock cable does not add or hide away anything, whereas the SC can be good if you think the sound from your DAC / Amp is a bit thin and you need some more body and meat to the bone, then the SC is a perfect cable. The ultra fine detail / sparkle hides slightly, but in exchange you will have a richer sound. So for example used with Headamp GSX and DAVE, it can be an alternative.

This is a matter of taste as always.

In my setup i like the prion and the stock, but in other setups i have found the SC to shine with great synergy.


----------



## draytonklammer

I am excited, I am finally fully in line for the Abyss Phi!
Just sent 'em off today.


----------



## drew911d (Nov 14, 2017)

The ability to play anything and have it sound great is exactly why I chose Abyss Phi over Utopia.  I demoed the utopia and the dealer threw the usual gamut at me that sounds great on anything. Perfect recordings like Rebecca Pidgeon and the like.  While I do enjoy those recordings, I don't normally listen to them.  I was deeply enthralled in the Utopia until the dealer walked away and gave me control of the ipad music server controller.  I put on some Led Zep and Megadeath and both sounded very dry.  Just not ANY bass where it should be.  More classic rock revealed the same.  My usual genre, and usually light on bass (still need some to come across)..  I can't believe someone thinks only perfect recordings should sound good and be damned anything else.  I would never buy anything that makes my choice in music sound worse than ibuds.  Great detail with no body isn't fun at all.

I read about the Abyss and it's full body, and after reading many reviews of the same (reading between the lines) I knew Abyss was for me.  I ordered without having heard them, because here in Az there just aren't any opportunities. 

I'm extremely happy I did.  As you said, I can throw anything at them, crappy mp3's to any hi res and it all sounds great, better than I've ever heard in all circumstances.  High end gear, imo, should make everything more enjoyable.  Not force us into listening to only the best recordings to enjoy it.

I get the great detail, sound stage, imaging and full spectrum of sound that should be present in all selections.  Like the Noble K10 I have and enjoy so much for the same reasons.  The Phi is just 10x more in every regard.  As it should be.


----------



## m17xr2b

draytonklammer said:


> I am excited, I am finally fully in line for the Abyss Phi!
> Just sent 'em off today.


Wow that was fast. I think you decided to upgrade after me and interesting that you sent them already and I still have weeks and weeks to wait. What gives Joe?


----------



## mulder01

He may have put his name down ages ago but been unsure about whether or not to go through with it?


----------



## m17xr2b

Could be, man 20 weeks is a long time.


----------



## mulder01

wow yeah that's a while.
Don't know what the going rate for a used abyss is (depends on condition of course) US $2.5k for lite??  Dunno haven't looked.  But if you sold for that and just bought new, then you're out of pocket $2k instead of $1.5k for just the upgrade, but it's all new and warranty starts again and no waiting.  Worth the extra outlay maybe?


----------



## m17xr2b

Yes in the US, but in the UK a new lite abyss is over 6K USD


----------



## JohanGao

What? the waiting time for upgrade from old abyss to abyss phi is 20 weeks? I think they do that just because they haven't any interesting to do an upgrade, so they just saying 20 weeks to make abyss user frustrated in waiting and think twice to take the upgrade path.
Rather than waiting for 20 weeks (I mean, hey that is almost half of year), better waiting for the 2nd hand abyss phi, I am sure in that 20 weeks must be a few abyss phi in 2nd hand market...


----------



## FLTWS (Nov 15, 2017)

Playing cable roulette is about different, whether that difference is better or not each listener has to decide for themselves.
I happen to like how the Dana Lazuli changed the sound of my HD800 compared to its stock cable so I could enjoy it more.
My satisfaction with it had me order the Lazuli Reference for my Utopia, I was happy with the results again, but the amount of different wasn't as dramatic, but worthwhile to me..
At some point early next year I will  try the Lazuli Reference with my Phi (tube rollers syndrome) and if I can get a SC demo I definitely will give it a listen.
They already make a LR for the original Abyss, I'd be surprised if there is a different model for the Phi (same connector, right? Same all copper design?)
They (DanaCable) come with 30 day return policy (last I heard).
They come standard at 3 meters (my preferred length), the cable is extremely flexible, dresses without much twisting, the jacketing is very low in microphonics,
and the drag of it's weight was negligible and perhaps less than in the case of my Utopia's stock cable, (but I speculate that it may be more than the stock Phi cable).

But, listening to the Phi with the stock cable is what convinced me to buy the Phi. I don't think the Phi cable "needs" replacing. It sounds right.
Alternate cabling is an optional "gilding of the lily" that one may like the result of, or not, for any number of reasons.

Some "gild the lily"  definitions; to try to improve what is already beautiful or excellent /  To apply unnecessary ornament - to over embellish / to improve or decorate something that is already perfect and therefore spoil it / to coat with gold, gold leaf, or a gold-colored substance / to add unnecessary ornamentation, a special feature, etc., in an attempt to improve something that is already complete, satisfactory, or ideal.


----------



## FLTWS (Nov 21, 2017)

*My Abyss 1266 Phi Demo Evaluation SN01300733;                                                10/31/17 to 11/12/17
vs my HD800 (owned 14 mos.) vs. my Utopia (owned 8 mos.)*

For those interested in or considering purchase of the Abyss 1266 Phi and who are most likely following this thread, this is my comparison experience with my other two TOTL phones. I make no claim to being “the answer”, what follow is just my subjective thoughts and can only be  100% true and correct for myself. Rather than make it a formal review (and regurgitate spec sheets and discuss matters of build quality, pictures, etc., I thought I’d try something different, instead of a formal review (not sure how anyway with this new platform) and using the {spoiler} so as to not take up a lot of space and place it in this thread. I put a list of all the equipment used during the evaluation as well as recordings used at the end of my comments. I kept notes daily as I went through this gauntlet; hopefully I’ve corrected all my cut and paste errors and re-proofed it enough times. I could have spent more time reviewing it but it was time to stop cutting bait and start fishing.

Reading impressions in a vacuum never helped me much so that’s why I draw listening comparisons with my other two TOTL headphones and three primary headphone amps.

All my gear is purchased by me. I do this for fun and my own pleasure. I am not out to sell anything to anybody. I don’t (can’t) do measurements and post fancy graphs. I listen to music not test signal sweeps. I don’t need validation, and I’m pretty sure I’m nobody’s fanboy, but I do like getting great sound performance and features at a fair price, or better, LOL.

I spent a week with the original 1266 in November 2016 (did not own my Utopia at that time) and wrestled with getting a good fit and came to the conclusion the phones primary colorations or flavorings were too dark sounding for me. But it’s a new year, with a new model, and a new attitude. My dealer (The Cable Company) indicated that this demo unit had over 200 hours on it when I picked it up.

*My Standard Disclaimer*

I’ve made peace with the fact that headphones do not duplicate the in-room speaker experience, and vice-versa. Each is its own unique way of presenting and enjoying recorded music. And neither comes close to the sound of live music in the concert hall and I seriously doubt they ever will, so I don’t stress over it. And, YMWV, because, no two people hear exactly the same things in the exactly the same way.

I also want to note that what follows is based on spending only 2 weeks with the Phi primarily listening to classical music, some Jazz, a little Rock. I listened in roughly 2 x 2 to 3 hour shifts a day for most of 13 straight days for this evaluation. This is nowhere near adequate time to juggle 3 pair of headphones plus 3 different headphone amps with all the different combinations possible.

All 3 phones partnered well with my Rogue RH-5 with 12AU7’s (HD800 benefited a lot), Mjolnir 2 with 6DJ8’s and Ragnarok.   I run all my equipment balanced in and out and use AES/EBU from my ERC-3 (as transport) to my Yggdrasil DAC. Different equipment could / should give different results.

Spoiler alert, my tale has a happy ending.



Spoiler



*General Impressions of the 3 Headphones*

HD800: Overall sound profile is slightly tilted up in frequency response from bottom to top, it is unforgiving, and bright as of a result of a peak in the highs (which doesn’t affect me as much as it does others with my old ears). My choices in HP amps (as well as tubes) and HP cabling make a noticeable difference in the sound quality of the HD800 adding some richness to the lower bass through midbass as well as helping the highs with this headphone. In addition to replacement HP cable I run mine without the felt liners (maybe a smidge clearer but also gives me a bit more room inside the ear cup cavity for my ears). No other mods or EQ.

Utopia:  A beautiful, rich sounding HP overall that sounds relatively flat, frequency response wise, with great dynamic punch from bottom to top but with a bit of forwardness which tends to flatten the sound field. It is also unforgiving but more as a result of its accuracy than any frequency anomalies that I can identify. My choice of replacement HP cabling made a more modest improvement in the sound, not as dramatic a change as with the HD800 but was still a worthwhile upgrade to my ears. The Utopia sounds very good with all of my amps and the better the source quality the better it sounds. Aside from the cable I run mine stock and with no EQ.

Abyss Phi: The overall profile sounds slightly tilted down from bottom to top (maybe as a result of its extraordinary bass reproduction which outclasses every other phone I’ve heard, I’m not use to this type of bass in a headphone.). I heard no missing high frequency information in comparison with the HD800 and Utopia. The bass range is not over-blown just incredibly deep ranging, dynamic, and stress free at all volume levels. Highs are relaxed and smooth. I haven’t heard an ugly sound out of it yet. While not a forgiving headphone I find it tends not to make some or my more problematic recordings sound worse. I have only used it with the stock dual 3-pin cables and ¼ inch adapter so far. The separated L/R cable strands keep getting tangled up in my feet. (Note: Based on my past experience dual 3-Pin vs. 4-Pin / negligible difference, balanced vs SE / notable difference.  I also employed ¼ inch adapters on the 3 phones during some sessions for complete uniformity in listening to the 3 amps).

*Specific Impressions of HD800 and Utopia and Initial Impressions to the Phi’s*

Highs: (Advisory: I’m 70 and my audiologist tells me I don’t hear very much above 8khz).
The Phi has changed my stance towards all planar magnetics being dark or dull to my ears compared to my dynamic transducers. Massed strings at the top of the scale are particularly beautiful, smooth and extended. Highs, as I remember them, are not as reticent as the original 1266 (which I auditioned a year ago) but they never get as bright as the other two phones can sound at times with my average recordings. Highs are well behaved, relaxed, all there with the Phi. The Phi initially sounded “un-bright” compared to the other two but over time it just sounds clean, especially at higher volume peaks, and it doesn’t comes un-glued under stress. The Phi highs do not stand out or grab attention like they sometimes do with my HD800 and Utopia.

All 3 reproduce highs with the same level of information revealed, nothing is missing with the Phi, they just sounds less “sparkly”. I note here that in a concert hall “live” highs never sound as “bright” to my ears as when reproduced over speakers or headphones. Maybe a function of the volume of space the sound is generated in; headphone ear cup versus in room speakers versus the concert hall and microphone proximity versus member of the audience perspective. The more I listen to the Phi, however, the more I’m convinced the highs may be just right for me, only time will tell. Checking my listening notes on the original 1266 from last year indicates I did not care for the darker overall sound and the highs with the original. Good test discs for highs; Shchedrin: “Carmen Suite” / Pletnev DG471136 and Chesky’s Ultimate Headphone Demo Disc JD361.

Midrange: I enjoy all 3, even with their varying instrument and vocal presentations. But the Phi really commanded my attention (maybe new toy syndrome). Comparing some of my older (say 60’s and 70’s) recently remastered / remixed recordings on CD with their original issued CD releases, (that I purchased at the time of their original release), was a treat with the Phi.  One example; Purcell’s Dido & Aeneas: Philips 422 485-2 (original release 1970) / (remixed & remastered 2016) on Pentatone PTC 5186 230. Remixing improvements I heard include; better ambience cues of the recording environment, better balancing of instrument groups and voices, better detail, smoother highs all around, improved intelligibility of words with soloists and chorus, deeper bass, and the harpsichord accompaniment is no longer a standout soloist. 46 years from the original mix to this one, but this one really gets it right. Want to talk night and day differences? It’s easy to get too focused on the hardware boxes and wires to the exclusion of the source quality which I always contend is “the” most important component in the chain. No DAC or amp or equalizer can fix any issues in the recording, obvious but not always easy to keep in mind when confronted with that new model smell and glow of the LEDs as we listen for expected improvement’s to the sound of a recording we know so well.

The improvements wrought by the remastering / remixing process were readily heard when listening with the Phi but were also noticeable on the other two as well. I also want to note that not all remastered recordings are equally successful.

The edge on the brass instruments with the Phi’s isn’t quite as aggressive as with the HD800 and Utopia, I’m not sure which I prefer at this point, or if it even matters that much as the difference was not large.

Bass: The Phi wins, hands down, and I’m no bass-head. No other phone I’ve heard yet does bass like the Phi with both the sensation of air movement and delineation of the notes and this is with every recording I used during the evaluation. With a bass drum for instance, I find the only difference between the Phi and a bass capable in-room speaker system is the Phi only affects the eardrums and head, speakers can sometimes involve the whole body, but headphones eliminate the room interphase issues speakers have to deal with usually providing lower coloration and better detail. “Live” always involves and moves the whole body to a much greater extent and it’s not a matter of how loudly the drum is struck.  (I’m reminded of that old Hitachi ad with a man with his hair streaming behind him seated in front of a pair of speakers, I think one of our members uses that as an avatar). Listen to the first movement of Mahler 5 for dynamic gradations of bass drum and tympani “thwacks”, it’s not about the “loud”.

While it is capable of prodigiously deep, clean, and powerful bass with a 100+ piece orchestra going full out it still sounds right with a small ensemble like a string quartet, as in, never too much of a good thing. Following the lowest notes on cellos and double basses and horns in complex scoring revealed some subtler details I’d never quite been able to make out with the other phones as clearly as with the Phi. The “shuddery” sound quality of tympani and bass drum at _ffff_ or _pppp _volume levels is reproduced with an amazing sense of realism, the illusion of air being moved in a volume of space.  I’ve got a couple of discs/tracks that can quickly tell me the score on the bass in just a few minutes of listening. I notice some extra clarity on vocal groups too, sounding more like a group of individual voices. Bass response sounds best to me with the lightest possible clamping of the ear pads even though that may sound counter intuitive.

Sound Staging: The Phi and HD800 share the win jointly; a better sense of distance from the front of the stage to the back wall (even though it’s all in or over the head and not in front) with well recorded material, and maybe a little more side to side width. My Utopia sound stage is not so deep or wide (not by much) and the sound is more forward.

Imaging: all 3 are fine by me with respect to stability but the Utopia makes for a bit smaller images in a slightly smaller space, not really a big deal to me, not enough to deduct points. Center of the sound stage with the Phi’s is a bit more “there”, a very smooth, continuous panning image, but again, all inside or over the head. I keep listening for a seam of sorts but there’s none to be heard. Maybe it’s something to do with the dual 3 pin configuration of the stock cables or just the matching of the drivers.

One area that I found to be more problematic with the Phi, and this has been mentioned before by others, is with closely miked solo instruments like piano. Most piano recordings don’t come off too well on any type of transducer in my experience. I spent the first 2 decades of my life listening to my father play a grand piano almost daily. No matter where I stand listening to one the sound is just not as exaggerated, as big, as recordings make it sound. The live sound is always more mono-ish than the overdone stereo effect on most recordings. Can’t fault the Phi (or HD800 and Utopia for that matter) for accurately presenting the way the recording was miked.

Transient Attack and Decay: I initially had an impression that the HD800 and Utopia sounded quicker on transient attacks than the Phi. I carefully compared recordings specifically to listen for this. If clarity of detail is a hallmark of good transient response then the Phi is just as quick, but there is a subjective difference in listening I haven’t been able to put my finger on. The sound of the different driver materials? Planar membrane coloration versus cone driver colorations?

Air and Ambience: All 3 do a good job but again the Phi has a certain degree of clarity in conjunction with well recorded source material that really defines the air space of the recording venue. I’ve got a suspicion it’s got something to do with the quality of its bass, even when the music isn’t plumbing the depths all the way to the bottom of the scale.

Dynamic Capability: The Phi and Utopia share the win in this category. My HD800 doesn’t like being pushed as hard as the other two on peak volume levels (crescendos) with Late Romantic and many Modern compositions, but, I love my HD800 with baroque and early classical period music, especially on original instruments. With the HD800 (and especially RH-5), it’s hypnotic. But, on powerful dynamic material the Phi never yells “uncle”, the Utopia stresses at times but only slightly. (Probably shouldn't listen that loudly anyway from an ear safety standpoint)

Transparency / Colorations: In my experience every audio system I’ve ever heard composed of a source, wires, boxes, and transducer will have, at least, some subtle variations in transparency or coloration to give the overall sound a signature, no matter how slight. I’ll take a certain amount of coloration or personality in the sound over transparency to the point of sterility, but that’s just my personal preference. In a perfect world with perfect recordings…Well, that’s just not the case, and especially as I’m performance driven first over SQ I like a little forgiveness in my head phone system. I’m okay with the 3 different sound signatures of these three phones (and the lesser differences in my 3 amps). It’s up to each individual listener to determine what’s right for them. Ultimate tonal accuracy is in the ear of the listener who enjoys what they hear.

Summary: I found the Phi to be a unique and different listen compared to my other phones. I think it starts with the quality of the bass (not necessarily the quantity although it’s available in spades with the Phi) that sets a solid foundation to build the total sound experience on. There’s also something about that “there-ness” I referred to earlier that makes for involving listening sessions. But, it also requires one to get comfortable with a different type of headphone fit and feel compared to more traditional designs.

I’m looking forward to spending a lot more ear time with the Phi, so it looks like I’ll have to buy my own pair. “Ouch!” says my wallet, again! Oh well, but I wouldn’t spend another 5 grand with 2 world class headphones already in my inventory if there wasn’t a seriously compelling reason making the Phi worth the cost of admission to me. Make no mistake; I found this is a very special and different sounding headphone whose unique qualities don’t reveal themselves in a brief listen. But, that’s only the way I hear it, others may differ.

I should be taking delivery of my Phi sometime next month. I’m going to order the “Lite” version (kind of an ironic designation for a head phone that is larger than most, heavier than most, and has bass reproduction that outweighs any of the competition I’ve auditioned).

I don’t need the leather carrying bag (I won’t be taking these out of the house into the light of day or dark of night, the Phi is not a portable listening solution to my way of thinking, and for any number of reasons). The stand that comes with the “Delux” would be nice but I’ll figure something out. My preference would be to support/display it by the aluminum framing and not the leather headband (don’t know how much leather replacements are) so I’ll have to work on that. I’m going with the 4 pin balanced cable (which is the configuration I use on my other phones) to hopefully reduce the tangle factor; at least I won’t hesitate to use some tape or plastic cable ties to keep the 2 runs of cable together (at least it looks like 2 runs in the picture of the “Lite” on their website are only joined at the 4-pin connector), which I wouldn’t do with a demo unit. I did not find the stock cable wanting in any way, and it was obviously good enough in conjunction with the Phi to convince me I wanted to buy it. I’ll think about gilding the lily next year. Decadent? You bet.

I’m fortunate to be able to own all 3 of these world-class TOTL headphones. I enjoy them as much for their differences as for their similarities and so I will have phones for all occasions. But the Phi, given more time, may just be that special “one phone to rule them all” thus ending my quest, for the foreseeable future.

*A note on setup / fitting:*

Unlike other phones I’ve auditioned; I couldn’t just throw them on and listen. I spent a lot of my time fidgeting with fit a year ago when I auditioned the original 1266. This time I read the instructions and suggestions (!). And, I also picked up a lot of useful info on this dedicated thread here at Head-Fi. And it’s probable I’ve over-thought the process, but...

Unlike all the other phones I’ve experienced over the past 2 years the fitting process for the Abyss 1266 models entails some trial and error. And with my large-ish, moderately protruding ears almost every phone presents a challenge to me getting a comfortable fit without deforming some part of my outer ear, even if only slightly.

The aluminum headband width and angle adjustment had an effect on how the leather headband sits on top of my head and the ear cup pads vertical position on the side of my head. Throw in the angle of the aluminum frames horizontal and vertical parts and the rotational position of the ear cups pads with their D-shaped opening and how it all sits on the side of my head and jaw and that’s a lot of things that have an effect on comfort and sound. (I think I got all that right, LOL!)

I found experimenting with all the possible adjustments for fit and comfort easier with the HP cable(s) disconnected and not listening to music. Making adjustments in front of a mirror helped me to understand visually how the different pieces parts were interacting and affecting the fit as I made changes. I would have liked a ¼ to ½ inch more of adjustment to the horizontal part of the aluminum frame, would make it easier for me to even out the  pressure all around my ear, it’s a bit higher above my ear than elsewhere, but I’ll keep working on it.

I kept trying different combinations of the adjustments until I had the lightest possible pressure that kept the phones in place. When I had it all dialed in the press of the leather headband support was barely noticeable on top of my head and the ear cup pads only a little more so and then only with head movement which didn't surprised me given the overall weight and centrifugal effect of the heavy outboard drivers. Strange as it sounds it is almost as comfortable as my HD800 except for that bulky centrifugal aspect when wearing combined with the lightness of ear cup pad clamping.

I found the Phi is not good for walking around with, head banging to “Queen” with Wayne and Garth, and by extension, probably not right for wearing while exercising. I only use them while sitting to listen to music or to view a movie. I’ve had no issues with the weight; no uncomfortable pressure points and no neck discomfort. I found that the closer I got to the right fit for me with the best weight distribution providing the best comfort, the better the sound.

With other phones the only adjustment is basically the length of the arms of the phone’s yokes and after that you either live with (or not) the results. While I found the fitting a more intensive process with the Abyss 1266 models, it’s kind of unique for a headphone to have so many interactive physical parameters that can be adjusted to suit comfort and sound, if one has the patience. It’s a process and it’s still ongoing for me, but I’m confident I’m very close to ideal at this time.

*Epilogue*

With the upcoming acquisition of the Phi (and Rogue RH-5 last month) I will be taking a break. My search for my ultimate headphone rig started 2 years ago this January. Not having room for a proper 2 channel set up, let alone dedicated listening room environment, and no longer satisfied using my home theater surround rig for music (which I had been doing since 2004), I got into headphones, After auditioning about 20 top HP contenders and about a dozen different amps to drive them with over that time, I need to get back to listening to the music instead of the hardware, of which I have more than enough. While, if the opportunity presents itself, I’d still like to hear what the TOTL Woo’s or Dave might have to offer, simply because they might be at opposite ends of the transparency/coloration spectrum, and it would be as much academic curiosity as anything else. But, I’m no longer driven to make the heroic effort or spend that much time or money, even though I could. However, anyone who feels their amp/dac would be a life enhancing improvement compared to any of my current amps/dac, please feel free to send it to me, I’ll be happy to evaluate it! My position is that the recording quality, mixing and mastering, and the headphones capabilities are responsible for better than 90% of what I end up hearing as long as the wires and boxes in between are of good design. While one still needs those wires and boxes in between the two, and while the right amp with the right headphone may synergize beyond the sum of the pieces, and while balance of the whole system is important (you wouldn’t combine a 3,000 pound 600hp Cummins ISX15 Diesel engine with a VW beetle), I believe in putting the lion’s share of my budget into the headphone, simply because I can’t do anything about the “true” front end as the recording is what it is.

My game plan now is to let all I already have sort itself out over time.

Trust your ears, decisions on audio gear “are” all about you, not someone else.

*Associated Equipment Used in My Comparison*

Balanced FTW: ERC-3 to Schiit YGG to RAG or MJ2 (tubes or LISST's) or Rogue Audio RH-5 > HD800 with DanaCable Lazuli / Utopia with DanaCable Lazuli Ref. > Sapphire Reference Balanced and SE IC's. > DHLabs AES/EBU and COAX > .Monster AVS 2000 & 5100MKII. I’m CD only & 90% Classical listening.


*I listen to classical music from every period of time from Gregorian Chant to Einojuhani Rautavaara, and just about every composer in between although my specialties lie between the time of Wagner and that of Vaughn-Williams with an emphasis on Mahler. The “bleeding chunk” selections I use to evaluate from the list that follows are permanently burned into my memory, some dating back to their original vinyl releases. While well recorded music tends to sound very good on most competently designed gear, sometimes the not so good helps me to pinpoint sonic issues more quickly. I have a number of original issue CD’s and their K2, JVC, Mobile Fidelity, etc., remasters. While some are hybrid SACD I only listen to the standard stereo tracks on them. The CD recordings used:* 


Chesky’s Ultimate Headphone Demo Disc JD361

Chesky’s Ultimate Demo Disc UD95

Sheffield’s: “The Missing Linc”, Vol 2 CDS10

Sheffield’s: “Wagner and Prokofiev Selections”:  CD 7/8

Bartok: Music for Strings Percussion & Celeste; Reiner/RCA Living Stereo Hybrid SACD 828766 139020 & Marriner/ASMF on Decca 448577-2; This work uses mirror imaged string orchestras with percussion instruments, great fun with some stark L/R channel contrasts. Do note however that the _f_ holes of first and second violins face different directions and so could sound slightly different.  Both are (relatively) recent remasters.

Bizet Carmen: Beecham/Warner 0825646994489 (1960 Re-mastered 2016), V.K./DG 410 088- 2 (1983?), Plasson/EMI 5 57434-2 (2003)

Gregorian Chants: Teldec 4509-96036-2 (original recording 1958 first CD issue 1994)

Beethoven 5th & 7th: Kleiber VPO/ single issues DG 28941 58612 (1975) DG 28941 58622 (1976)/ SACD including both DG471 6302 (2003)/ & K2 HD 480 864-4 Remastering of both (2013)

Beethoven 9th: London 430 438-2 Solti&Chicago (1972) / & K2 HD Remastering 480 411-2 (2010) and London 417 755-2 Schmidt-Isserstedt & VPO

Liszt: Les Preludes on BIS CD-1117 and Warner/Apex 2564 66586-1 and a few others as well.

Mahler: A lot, way too many to list! But okay; Solti CSO, London 414 321-2 (1970- *AAD*) and its “*remastered* *reissue”* London 430 443-2 (1991 – *ADD*). His 1990 CSO and 1997 Tonhalle recordings, both “Live”, are good too!

Prokofiev 5th Symphony: Jarvi / Telarc 60683 and Previn / Warner Classics 65181 (orig EMI remastered).

Puccini: Tosca: Philips 412 885-2 (1976) Davis and the R.O.H Covent Garden are magnificent.

Purcell: Dido & Aeneas: Davis & ASMF: Philips 422 485-2 (1970) / Remastered (2016) on Pentatone PTC 5186 230 and it is glorious all the way around for my tastes.

Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances: Johanos/Dallas Sym. O: Analogue Productions AACD 006.  This is one of handful of AAD recordings in my collection. This was recorded in McFarland Auditorium at Southern Methodist University in 1967. Accordingly it has a very distinctive sound signature; very dry, very clean, very dynamic, very close up and on a compact stage. The original LP was on the Turnabout label.

Respighi: “Ancient Airs and Dances” Dorati/Philharmonia Hungarica on Mercury Living Presence 434 304-2 (this 1992 re-master is smoother in the highs with fuller, deeper bass than the first A to D transfer (early 80’s CD issue on Philips 416 496-2) - I have both. (I had the 58’ LP at one time). Along with the Rachmaninov above this was my ultimate sound stage and imaging reference, in either LP or CD format that I would drag to every loud speaker audition.

Shchedrin: “Carmen Suite” / Pletnev DG471136 (I recently re-discovered this, highly recommended for demo’ing if you’re into classical. It’s for a large string orchestra and percussion instruments, no horns, no woodwinds!)

Shostakovich / Shchedrin: Piano Concertos on Hyperion CDA 67425. The closing bars of the Shchedrin are skull crushing, LOL! But, the more I hear it the more it makes sense. No dying away to a whimper, it’s definitely “over” when it’s over.

Swedish Orchestral Favorites Vol 2 on Naxos 8.553715 Great music for spending a quiet, solo, rainy afternoon with some of my 21 year old Bushmills.

Wagner’s Ring Cycle: Solti & VPO: London 414 100-2 /Remastered on Decca 478 8370 (the 2012 remastering), and Bohm & Bayreuth Festival 66-67’ on Decca 478 2367.

Non Classical; Alan Parson’s Project, Santana, Steely Dan, Stanley Clarke, Grover Washington, Diana Krall, Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Traffic.

Finis


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## draytonklammer

Also finally getting my cable replaced.


m17xr2b said:


> Wow that was fast. I think you decided to upgrade after me and interesting that you sent them already and I still have weeks and weeks to wait. What gives Joe?



I put my name on the list what feels like ages ago honestly.


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## fredfung28

run in the abyss phi for 20 hours, bass and imaging are better than 0 hrs a lot..
I just want to say again.. the strings are very close to reality.. so crazy..


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## draytonklammer

Almost considering a DHC and selling my Yggy/430HAD for a DAVE.

Decisions decisions...

My guess is I won't be able to convince myself to do it. I think the Yggy and 430HA shine together.


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## mulder01

JohanGao said:


> What? the waiting time for upgrade from old abyss to abyss phi is 20 weeks? I think they do that just because they haven't any interesting to do an upgrade, so they just saying 20 weeks to make abyss user frustrated in waiting and think twice to take the upgrade path.
> Rather than waiting for 20 weeks (I mean, hey that is almost half of year), better waiting for the 2nd hand abyss phi, I am sure in that 20 weeks must be a few abyss phi in 2nd hand market...



It's a small company so they can only do a certain number per week and the list is getting longer and longer...  I think at the very beginning, the wait was only a couple of weeks.


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## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> It's a small company so they can only do a certain number per week and the list is getting longer and longer...  I think at the very beginning, the wait was only a couple of weeks.



This ^

I literally can't even remember when I originally asked to be put on the list for an upgrade.

It was awhile back to say the least. Many months.

Don't worry m17xr2b, I had a slightly longer wait time than you so in theory you should be coming up fairly soon. Maybe a month?


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## jlbrach

draytonklammer said:


> Almost considering a DHC and selling my Yggy/430HAD for a DAVE.
> 
> Decisions decisions...
> 
> My guess is I won't be able to convince myself to do it. I think the Yggy and 430HA shine together.



I had the yiggy/rag combo.....i sold the rag for the moon 430 and the combo was wonderful....i ultimately sold the Yiggy and got the dave and have never looked back.....the dave is simply better and of course it has its own amp section which is quite good....i have kept the 430 and use it with the dave sometimes depending on the music with the Phi...with the Utopia there is no need for an amp with the dave


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## MacedonianHero

jlbrach said:


> I had the yiggy/rag combo.....i sold the rag for the moon 430 and the combo was wonderful....i ultimately sold the Yiggy and got the dave and have never looked back.....the dave is simply better and of course it has its own amp section which is quite good....i have kept the 430 and use it with the dave sometimes depending on the music with the Phi...with the Utopia there is no need for an amp with the dave



^ x2 for me wrt to the DAVE.


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## drew911d

Wish there was anybody in Arizona with a Dave..  Really wanna see (hear) what it can do.


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## draytonklammer

drew911d said:


> Wish there was anybody in Arizona with a Dave..  Really wanna see (hear) what it can do.



I feel that, but for Montana.
Shucks.

Don't know how I feel about spending $9,000 blindly.


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## phase0

Right now I'm enjoying the Abyss so much. It seems like it's everything I could want in a headphone. I had an easy time parting with the Utopia. I still can't let go of my Audeze but they're also getting 0 play time. I just keep going "holy crap this is amazing!" every time I put on the Phi. I felt like it was a lot murkier at the CanJam trying to demo stuff which is weird. I'd tell everyone forget all the other headphone Abyss Phi is where it's happening  This is what I really wanted all along when I got into the Utopia hype.


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## draytonklammer

phase0 said:


> Right now I'm enjoying the Abyss so much. It seems like it's everything I could want in a headphone. I had an easy time parting with the Utopia. I still can't let go of my Audeze but they're also getting 0 play time. I just keep going "holy crap this is amazing!" every time I put on the Phi. I felt like it was a lot murkier at the CanJam trying to demo stuff which is weird. I'd tell everyone forget all the other headphone Abyss Phi is where it's happening  This is what I really wanted all along when I got into the Utopia hype.



Exactly why I am selling my Utopia.

I enjoy it for what it is. It's an amazing piece of tech.

That being said, for me Abyss > Utopia (can't wait for my Phi as all I hear is that it's even better)


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## phase0

draytonklammer said:


> Exactly why I am selling my Utopia.
> 
> I enjoy it for what it is. It's an amazing piece of tech.
> 
> That being said, for me Abyss > Utopia (can't wait for my Phi as all I hear is that it's even better)



Weren't you trying to sell your Abyss for a while? I enjoyed the Utopia. It's not a bad headphone by any means. Now that I'm on to the Phi I just think it's obviously next level by comparison. I don't think the Utopia can compete. I see other people keeping it on the same pedestal as an equal. I don't think it's an equal. I think it's totally outclassed by Phi. The thing Focal has is beautiful looks and finish. Then Phi has the weird look/style and the fit/adjustment options. i think demoing it is a little awkward.


----------



## draytonklammer

phase0 said:


> Weren't you trying to sell your Abyss for a while? I enjoyed the Utopia. It's not a bad headphone by any means. Now that I'm on to the Phi I just think it's obviously next level by comparison. I don't think the Utopia can compete. I see other people keeping it on the same pedestal as an equal. I don't think it's an equal. I think it's totally outclassed by Phi. The thing Focal has is beautiful looks and finish. Then Phi has the weird look/style and the fit/adjustment options. i think demoing it is a little awkward.



I had new toy syndrome for a little bit.

I picked up my Abyss to make sure it was still working to make sure the sale was fine.
Worked fine, but also ended up still being my favorite headphone to date.

Glad I wasn't really trying to quick sell it. I don't think I would have been able to sell it to be honest.

Even listening to my Utopia right now (while waiting for my Phi upgrade) is just lackluster in comparison.
It's NOT BAD at all. It's a fantastic headphone. That being said, the Abyss is better and I am sure the Phi will be even better.


----------



## mulder01

m17xr2b said:


> Yes in the US, but in the UK a new lite abyss is over 6K USD



Yeah you guys get screwed a bit on pricing over there...  

We get a bit screwed over here with the Abyss pricing for some reason - when I bought mine 3 years ago the RRP was USD $5.5k (same as today) and AUD $6699 here.  I think I asked nicely for a package deal with an amp and got it for just over $6k Aussie.  That was when the only config you could buy was deluxe.

Now they have the lite for USD $4.5k and deluxe for $5.5k so the price of the deluxe has never changed, but now the RRP here is AUD $8.5k for deluxe and $7k for lite.  For some reason the price went up 2 grand even though the US price has never changed.  At first I thought it must be the exchange rate, but;

Susvara is USD $6k, or AUD $7.5k here.
Abyss Deluxe is USD $5.5k but AUD $8.5k here...
Makes no sense to me as to how the Susvara can be a grand cheaper when the US retail is $500 higher...
Maybe they don't want us Aussies to buy Abyss...


----------



## Rossliew

Could it be taxes? or perhaps the principal has slashed profit margins to dealers? So dealers have no choice but to hike the RRP? just my 2 cents...


----------



## mulder01

Well, taxes haven't changed, nor has the price of, say a 009.  
AFAIK The retailer is also the importer for both Hifiman and Abyss so either way they get 2 bites of the cherry if they sell one.  
I think maybe when the exchange rate was bad they put the price up (which is fair enough) but never put it back down again.
I suppose I shouldn't complain as I've already got mine   Sucks for any potential new abyss customer though.


----------



## Stjerna

Rossliew said:


> Could it be taxes? or perhaps the principal has slashed profit margins to dealers? So dealers have no choice but to hike the RRP? just my 2 cents...



The USD $4.5k for the Lite is without VAT, right? The VAT in Europe is usually high and included in the price (it's 25% in Sweden, where I live and I think it's 18% in UK). On top of this the dealers also want their share and they also need to protect them selves from currency changes to avoid the need for adjusting the price too often. All this increase the price for the customer and the increase may be different for different products (depending on how greedy ..
The Swedish price for Abyss Lite is 60 000 SEK. USD $1 = 8.95 SEK (incl exchange feedback) => USD $6700 Unfortunately...


----------



## Rossliew

I would tend to agree that when prices rise (for whatever reason) they don’t usually come down if the there’s a price reduction by the manufacturer or improvements in the exchange rate. So, I try to avoid this by purchasing used, where possible


----------



## fredfung28

Has anyone experience any high frequency that is  too sharp on 1266 phi? 
The sound of the “Si” “Tchai”, when singers sing, the sound pronounced before the word makes me feel too sharp and it’s not comfortable.
Sorry for my bad English, hope you would understand


----------



## Thenewguy007

fredfung28 said:


> Has anyone experience any high frequency that is  too sharp on 1266 phi?
> The sound of the “Si” “Tchai”, when singers sing, the sound pronounced before the word makes me feel too sharp and it’s not comfortable.
> Sorry for my bad English, hope you would understand



Could it be the Headamp GS-X mk2 in your chain?

The GS-X mk2 has a reputation of being bright.


----------



## jlbrach

i have no such issues,there are recordings that are sibilant and there is nothing a loudspeaker or HP can do about it....no matter how good a HP is it cannot make up for poor recordings etc


----------



## matthewhypolite

jlbrach said:


> i have no such issues,there are recordings that are sibilant and there is nothing a loudspeaker or HP can do about it....no matter how good a HP is it cannot make up for poor recordings etc



I'd even go as far to say that Better/More Resolving headphones make poor recordings sound worse. For example, when listening to poorly recorded tracks, the more forgiving HEK is an easy listen whereas the Abyss will point out each and every last flaw.


----------



## jlbrach

The HEK1000 v2 is very resolving as well but yes more resolution will show up poor recordings


----------



## MacedonianHero (Nov 18, 2017)

Thenewguy007 said:


> Could it be the Headamp GS-X mk2 in your chain?
> 
> The GS-X mk2 has a reputation of being bright.



Definitely not the GS-X Mk2. My Phi are not bright with the GS_X MK2 / DAVE. Have a look at the measurements of the GS-X that I recently posted... it's dead flat with stupendously low distortion and my ears confirm this since my Phi arrived.  

The original Abyss had a tendency to sound a tad sharp, but the treble on the Phi is quite special now and in fact has moved these headphones into my top 5 of all time as a result. But if I play brighter recordings through this chain, they'll sound bright and if I play darker / softer recordings, that's exactly what I get back. Transparency sometimes can be a curse. 

Tonality wise, I can't detect much of a difference from the Phi played through my DAVE directly or with the GS-X Mk2 in between them (and I certainly don't consider the DAVE bright). But I do have some brighter recorded albums and as mentioned; transparency can be both a great thing and a curse depending upon what you're playing.


----------



## fredfung28

I think it might be the recording...
I use utopia also but they don’t have that sound with my dhc 
I will wait till the adaptors arrived and tell the result again
Also, actually I haven’t get used to how loud the volume I should use with gsx, may I know what level will you turn to the volume?


----------



## MacedonianHero (Nov 18, 2017)

fredfung28 said:


> I think it might be the recording...
> I use utopia also but they don’t have that sound with my dhc
> I will wait till the adaptors arrived and tell the result again
> Also, actually I haven’t get used to how loud the volume I should use with gsx, may I know what level will you turn to the volume?



The Utopias can definitely sound a bit brighter than the Phi...so that's likely not the GS-X because they (Focal Utopia) should sound "brighter". Could also be your new Phi need some more hours on them too? After about 40 hours or so, things really settled down nicely.

With regards to volume, I'd get an SPL meter...I normally listen to 75 - 80 dB with 83-85 dB peaks max. What's your DAC?

The thing with an incredibly transparent rig, you'll get to know your recordings a lot better. I have old standards that I just couldn't listen to with certain setups because they were mixed so poorly. Thankfully a lot of new remasters have rectified the initial problem. Case in point...I love Led Zeppelin, but rarely listened to my old CDs because they were part of the brighter = more clear garbage released in the 90s. Thankfully the most recent remasters are now quite good.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Couldn’t resist myself and got a pair of the Abyss Phi! 

Totally in luv with it!


----------



## draytonklammer

Sound Infinity said:


> Couldn’t resist myself and got a pair of the Abyss Phi!
> 
> Totally in luv with it!



Great buy!

Can't wait to get my Phi upgrade back from the shop. Excited is an understatement.


----------



## fredfung28

MacedonianHero said:


> The Utopias can definitely sound a bit brighter than the Phi...so that's likely not the GS-X because they (Focal Utopia) should sound "brighter". Could also be your new Phi need some more hours on them too? After about 40 hours or so, things really settled down nicely.
> 
> With regards to volume, I'd get an SPL meter...I normally listen to 75 - 80 dB with 83-85 dB peaks max. What's your DAC?
> 
> The thing with an incredibly transparent rig, you'll get to know your recordings a lot better. I have old standards that I just couldn't listen to with certain setups because they were mixed so poorly. Thankfully a lot of new remasters have rectified the initial problem. Case in point...I love Led Zeppelin, but rarely listened to my old CDs because they were part of the brighter = more clear garbage released in the 90s. Thankfully the most recent remasters are now quite good.


My dac is Emmlabs Dac2x v2
I’m using stock cable lite version, will that be the reason of that?
My run in hour is about 80hrs now.
The sound of those “S” “C” coming from the words are quite hard to get used to.
My utopia has no problem of this.


----------



## fredfung28

MacedonianHero said:


> The Utopias can definitely sound a bit brighter than the Phi...so that's likely not the GS-X because they (Focal Utopia) should sound "brighter". Could also be your new Phi need some more hours on them too? After about 40 hours or so, things really settled down nicely.
> 
> With regards to volume, I'd get an SPL meter...I normally listen to 75 - 80 dB with 83-85 dB peaks max. What's your DAC?
> 
> The thing with an incredibly transparent rig, you'll get to know your recordings a lot better. I have old standards that I just couldn't listen to with certain setups because they were mixed so poorly. Thankfully a lot of new remasters have rectified the initial problem. Case in point...I love Led Zeppelin, but rarely listened to my old CDs because they were part of the brighter = more clear garbage released in the 90s. Thankfully the most recent remasters are now quite good.


If utopia should sound brighter, I think that would be the headphone cable problem?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

It's probably the recoding. Give us an example track so we can compare.

What are the interconnects and AC cables on the DAC and amp?


----------



## fredfung28

Amp: Headamp GS-X mk2, Dac: Emmlabs Dac2x V2, Transport: Rockna Wavedream Net
XLR: Taralabs 30 Limited Edition, AES: JMF audio DP5
Power Cords: Vertere HB, Sunyata research Sigma HC, Absolue Creations Tim Reference la source
Power conditioner: PS audio P3

Let me send a sample of the recording to you by email?


----------



## acantor

I've been following this post closely, and I apologize because the question has obviously been addressed.  Before I take the upgrade plunge, I just want to confirm that the consensus is that the Phi is definitely a significant step up from the original Abyss.
Thanks for your indulgence everyone.


----------



## FLTWS

acantor said:


> I've been following this post closely, and I apologize because the question has obviously been addressed.  Before I take the upgrade plunge, I just want to confirm that the consensus is that the Phi is definitely a significant step up from the original Abyss.
> Thanks for your indulgence everyone.



I auditioned the original a year ago this month and felt it wasn't enough to my liking to buy. I had the Phi version home for demo from 10/31/17 to 11/13/17. I felt the improvements in the highs brought them into balance with the mid-range and bass and along with all it's other qualities, so I ordered a Phi for myself, should be in by Christmas. Probably best if someone who has upgraded this year chimes in as the changes from the original to the Phi would certainly be fresher for them than me.


----------



## MacedonianHero (Nov 19, 2017)

FLTWS said:


> I auditioned the original a year ago this month and felt it wasn't enough to my liking to buy. I had the Phi version home for demo from 10/31/17 to 11/13/17. I felt the improvements in the highs brought them into balance with the mid-range and bass and along with all it's other qualities, so I ordered a Phi for myself, should be in by Christmas. Probably best if someone who has upgraded this year chimes in as the changes from the original to the Phi would certainly be fresher for them than me.



You've pretty much summed up my thoughts. While I appreciated what the original Abyss could do, I felt there were some minor issues that the Phi have eliminated and overall have elevated the Phi into one of my personal top 5 headphones of all time.


----------



## MacedonianHero (Nov 19, 2017)

fredfung28 said:


> My dac is Emmlabs Dac2x v2
> I’m using stock cable lite version, will that be the reason of that?
> My run in hour is about 80hrs now.
> The sound of those “S” “C” coming from the words are quite hard to get used to.
> My utopia has no problem of this.



Seeing that I haven't had this issue with a very similar setup (except for our DACs), I'm thinking with Joe that it's like the recording you're listening too. As mentioned, transparency like this will show a recording with all of its glory and warts.   

My interconnects from my DAVE to my amp are the Audioquest Water and my USB cable from my iMac is the Audioquest Coffee. And finally, from my CD player, I'm using an Audioquest Vodka Toslink cable into my DAVE.


----------



## mulder01

acantor said:


> I've been following this post closely, and I apologize because the question has obviously been addressed.  Before I take the upgrade plunge, I just want to confirm that the consensus is that the Phi is definitely a significant step up from the original Abyss.
> Thanks for your indulgence everyone.



I haven't read anyone specifically say they prefer the original on this forum.  
"Worth it" is subjective.


----------



## draytonklammer

acantor said:


> I've been following this post closely, and I apologize because the question has obviously been addressed.  Before I take the upgrade plunge, I just want to confirm that the consensus is that the Phi is definitely a significant step up from the original Abyss.
> Thanks for your indulgence everyone.



I know my thoughts often hold little weight here but once I get my Phi upgrade soonish I could try and give you some thoughts.


----------



## FLTWS

mulder01 said:


> I haven't read anyone specifically say they prefer the original on this forum.
> "Worth it" is subjective.



Both good points.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The music samples definitely have some sibilance but not the worst I've heard, them being high res helps this much. You'll need to tweak your system a bit for the resolution of the Phi.

Suggest starting with the digital interface. Try changing to USB or RCA SPDIF, either of these would probably be better than AES/EBU in that system. Also avoid silver conductors or plating in the cabling. If you have different cables laying around try experimenting.





fredfung28 said:


> Amp: Headamp GS-X mk2, Dac: Emmlabs Dac2x V2, Transport: Rockna Wavedream Net
> XLR: Taralabs 30 Limited Edition, AES: JMF audio DP5
> Power Cords: Vertere HB, Sunyata research Sigma HC, Absolue Creations Tim Reference la source
> Power conditioner: PS audio P3
> ...


----------



## _gamma_

Hi everyone, it's my first post but I am following this forum by time

I begin with compliments to *FLTWS* for very nice Abyss phi review, you did a long and very great job!


For Fredfung28

yes, I have your own experience with the sibilant (in poor recordings and not only) but I think as MacedonianHero said is a TRANSPARENCY question.

You can be sure it's not the cable, because I have the Jps stock and Prion4 cable and there is not difference.

I also have a very different ring than yours Fred, but the sibilant question remains the same, therefore is not GS-X problem.

For me Abyss Phi is an “ultra transparency” headphone and  give exceptional things but also some disadvantage 

(and  I talk after 70hour of burn in, maybe with more hours Abyss  will improve)

Some examples

Patricia Barber ‎– Modern Cool – track 1) Touch Of Trash (SACD)



Lyn Stanley – Potions – (track 1) - Lullaby Of Birdland (SACD)

For me  the sibilant in these two songs  are pretty annoying on the Abyss,

less with Audeze LCD3, more veiled, but it's veiled all over!

For me is a recordings “fault” highlighted by Abyss,

but please, all you try these two tracks and let me know what do you hear!


----------



## fredfung28

_gamma_ said:


> Hi everyone, it's my first post but I am following this forum by time
> 
> I begin with compliments to *FLTWS* for very nice Abyss phi review, you did a long and very great job!
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for being so detail and helpful with my problems... I am really annoyed by this issue. I will go back and check with this recording too! If that’s not the amp problem, then that will be really great...
I am thinking to change the amp if the problem occurs even I change the cable.
Thank you very much!


----------



## FLTWS

Just FYI; my impressions of the Rogue RH-5 are up here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rogue-audio-rh-5-thoughts.826252/page-2#post-13862337
The RH-5 figured prominently in my decision to acquire the Phi.


----------



## draytonklammer

Phi is here. Now to wait until Saturday so I can actually open and listen. Good thing I have family and Thanksgiving to pass the time away from home when I know my new toy arrived. Hoping to hear an improvement from the original!


----------



## FLTWS

draytonklammer said:


> Phi is here. Now to wait until Saturday so I can actually open and listen. Good thing I have family and Thanksgiving to pass the time away from home when I know my new toy arrived. Hoping to hear an improvement from the original!



That seems like quick turnaround time.


----------



## draytonklammer

FLTWS said:


> That seems like quick turnaround time.



I was very surprised by the turn around time.


----------



## fredfung28

The adtaptors didn’t work... maybe the pin is not correct
Could anyone tell me about the pin 1 2 3 of abyss which is hot cold and ground?
Thank you..!


----------



## Thenewguy007

draytonklammer said:


> Phi is here. Now to wait until Saturday so I can actually open and listen. Good thing I have family and Thanksgiving to pass the time away from home when I know my new toy arrived. Hoping to hear an improvement from the original!



Don't forget to burn them in.
Maybe use them to listen to TV or youtube to get a few dozen hours on them before critical listening.


----------



## mulder01

Abyss for watching TV... Necessary   I want a review of that - Watching a cooking show and listening to someone whisk egg whites in a metal bowl has never before sounded so much like someone whisking egg whites in a metal bowl.


----------



## FLTWS

LOL!


----------



## fredfung28

Just for following up my problem..
I have solved the problem by burning it in for longer time and also adding spike on my power conditioner and making some changes on my dac's spike...
I have to say 1266 phi is so crazy in everything.... classical is the first thing I am very impressed. After burning it in and now is quite stable, the vocal is even better and very very nice to enjoy listening it
the 3d imaging is better than utopia a lot and also.. the texture of the vocal is the best I have heard so far!

Not to mention.. my abyss 1266 phi is using Lite version cable.. and my utopia is using prion 4s and dana cable..


----------



## draytonklammer

Not much longer and I can start burning and listening to the Phi. Pretty excited.


----------



## _gamma_

Hi Fred, it's a good news, I'm happy for you!!

Please Fred, how many hours of burn in needed to yours Abyss before improve?


----------



## draytonklammer

Been listening all night to the Phi.
It's a worthy upgrade, that's for sure.


----------



## fredfung28

_gamma_ said:


> Hi Fred, it's a good news, I'm happy for you!!
> 
> Please Fred, how many hours of burn in needed to yours Abyss before improve?


I think the point is to use normal volume to run in it. I use normal volume to run in for 150-200hrs to get this result. I’m really getting my adaptors right now, so I could now how well the abyss improve from the lite cable to dhc prion 4s.
And actually the silbilant is actually still occurring but in a less annoying way. I hope the change of cable can solve the problem.

Also, about spikes, stillpoint ultra ss is really a good spike for wanting a better imaging, clarity and bass, and it doesn’t have coloration.

However if you want warmer sound, I tried to put the ultra base under the dac, that makes a warm sound and even completely cancelled the sibilant problem. However I found out that it gives up the transparency in exchange for this.. so I decided to put the ultra base to source, that makes everything more balance, having less sibilant but increased the transparency.


----------



## draytonklammer (Nov 27, 2017)

So far the only thing I've noticed is the slightly lesser bass quantity (which is not a bad thing, I think it sounds better honestly, but still has that Abyss bass that no other headphones have -- it's more accurate too! bass instrumental parts of music haven't ever sounded this realistic before) and then the one thing that bugs me, the only con about the upgrade is that I feel some very low bass notes aren't hit with as much force (they almost sound like they don't exist or the driver doesn't flex bass might quite as much in that range) in comparison to the original. Curious if that'll change as I use them or if the more U shaped sound of the original emphasized them a bit more than the more neutral sound of the Phi. So outside of losing that little bit of extra feeling in the very bottom of the bass response, the overall improvement across the board and especially in the mids/treble make it something I honestly barely even notice.

It's like the micro details of my Utopia were thrown into the vast sound stage of the Abyss (which I prefer to the HD 800's sound stage) with the lush, silky mids of the LCD-4 and the bass of the Abyss itself. Honestly this is my TOTL.

The Susvara didn't really capture the same energy IMO, the 009 just doesn't work for me (although only tried on a couple of amps, neither of which was the BHSE or KGSS, (can't ever remember the name of it)) the LCD-4 lacks a lot of treble for me and the bass doesn't stack up against the more refined Phi. The Utopia used to be my go to for a close, micro detail filled experience, but honestly I feel as though I am now getting those details in a more natural/true to the recording way with the Phi. As for my oldest owned headphones (from memory, the LCD-3/LCD-X/HD800/HD800S/HD650/DT990/T1/K712/LCD-XC) they don't even fall into the same league for me. They all are fantastic headphones, but they are not the in the same league as the previously mentioned TOTL headphones.

FYI my setup is a Schiit Yggy (gen 5 USB) fed into a Simaudio Moon Neo 430HA(D)
I am using the stock cable although I do have a silver cable I am considering trying with the Phi.
High end power cables, USB cable, XLR interconnects, etc. (high end for me, like hundreds each instead of the thousands I know some people spend)

That being said, the Phi is impressive. I can't wait to give it more listening time tonight.
It is an overall improvement upon the original, which alone I felt was more impressive than the TOTL headphones of today (minus the HE-1, but to be fair it's 10% of the price give or take) -- I honestly think this setup with the Phi is a worthy competitor to something like the HE-1. I think the Utopia, LCD-4, Susvara, and 009 do a GREAT job. They all have fantastic strengths. That being said, I think the Phi is the most natural, fun, impressive headphone I have listened to.

Hoping to expand this in a separate post when I get more listening time.
I might actually try out a full review.


----------



## Beolab

The low end needs to be EQ:ed slightly to get the full greatness with a high end bass filter box or through a computer, then the magic will surround you


----------



## draytonklammer

Beolab said:


> The low end needs to be EQ:ed slightly to get the full greatness with a high end bass filter box or through a computer, then the magic will surround you



What do you use for your EQ?


----------



## Beolab

I am evaluating a bass filter box right now, but i cant give you the brand name at the moment. 

There is not to many bass filter boxes on the market that doesent do any harm to the rest of the signal unfortenatly , besides computer based EQ’s in HQplayer , Roon, Amarra, and the rest, but i do not use a computer for my listening just the dCS Network Bridge streamer.


----------



## mulder01

surely dcs can build you a custom dac with built in bass boost?


----------



## draytonklammer

Yeah, honestly, excuse my language, but what the hell did you do to the Abyss Joe?

I knew it would sound better and your description specifically states it is more transparent, but holy crap!
This is better than I could have imagined. I also found that refitting it slightly brought back more of the deep rumbling bass whilst keeping everything I love about the Phi upgrade.

I think this will end up being the first headphone I try to actually review.

I appreciate the upgrade, this is truly impressive.

Merry Christmas to me.


----------



## matthewhypolite

draytonklammer said:


> It's like the micro details of my Utopia were thrown into the vast sound stage of the Abyss (which I prefer to the HD 800's sound stage) with the lush, silky mids of the LCD-4 and the bass of the Abyss itself. Honestly this is my TOTL.



What a description. 
I'll have mines soon enough.


----------



## Joe Skubinski




----------



## Leotis (Nov 30, 2017)

Got Phi!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Well, after several weeks with the Abyss-Phi (I will be writing up a full review for Headphone.Guru), I was so thoroughly impressed with the improvements, I made them my selection for my "2017 Writers' Choice Award":

http://headphone.guru/headphone-gurus-2017-products-of-the-year-and-writers-choice-awards/

Congrats to Joe and the team for putting together such a magical pair of headphones that give me such a "speaker-like" presentation, that I smile every time I put them on.


----------



## matthewhypolite

My Abyss has just been fedexed off today:






Now we wait.....


----------



## draytonklammer

matthewhypolite said:


> My Abyss has just been fedexed off today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Exactly how I felt when I sent mine out. 
But man... The beast that comes back.


----------



## ascantor

I understand completely, as mine just went off as well.


----------



## ER-Jiji

I have test Abyss Phi in the Fujiya Festival last month, love it so far the sound and bass is awesome. I like to buy it but still no news when Abyss will release here orz

I want to hear dat sound agaaain T^T


----------



## fredfung28

btw... I have just listened to the new brand Riviera Audio Labs AIC 10, its a really crazy amp with wide sound stage.. good dynamic range.. details.. and also presented the  1266 phi in a very delicate way..
I have ordered one.. will have more review when I got the unit. Thank you!


----------



## Beolab

Sounds like a tasty amp! 

Warm rich sound with some sparkle on the top i can imagine. 

Price ?


----------



## _gamma_

Riviera Audio Labs AIC 10 is a new amplifier without compromise,
strongly considered here in Italy and with reason
price even without compromise 

but you have a speakers/headphone amplifier in one


http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/riviera/1.html


----------



## fredfung28

_gamma_ said:


> Riviera Audio Labs AIC 10 is a new amplifier without compromise,
> strongly considered here in Italy and with reason
> price even without compromise
> 
> ...


Have you tried it? 
I think it’s really nice in terms of the delicate presentation of abyss 1266 phi. In my system somehow it’s a bit too rough comparing to that..
But that system is using Wadax Flagship model of dac and sacd player.. the soundstage is so wide that I haven’t heard in any headphone..

I will do a ab test once I got my aic10


----------



## Xecuter

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/riviera/5.jpg

11500 euro? Looks very cheap on the inside.  I'm all for subjective prowess, but man, I can't spend 10k on an amp with less than 1k in BOM.


----------



## Beolab

Riviera vs Headtrip


----------



## _gamma_

fredfung28 said:


> Have you tried it?
> I think it’s really nice in terms of the delicate presentation of abyss 1266 phi. In my system somehow it’s a bit too rough comparing to that..
> But that system is using Wadax Flagship model of dac and sacd player.. the soundstage is so wide that I haven’t heard in any headphone..
> 
> I will do a ab test once I got my aic10



personally I not listened yet

but people that I know say enthusiastic things about Riviera,

morover Luca Chiomenti the designer and engineer of Riviera has many credits here, he is a guarantee

...the price...


----------



## fredfung28

Beolab said:


> Riviera vs Headtrip


If we only use what you see inside to compare the sound.. that will be quite... funny  
Anyway, I just want to share my opinion about the amp and personally don’t have headtrip so I couldn’t compare with it.
I will do a comparison with gsx mk2 although the price range is too far.
But I just want to let you guys know there is a great amp coming out. If there is a place to try it, please give it a try


----------



## fredfung28

_gamma_ said:


> personally I not listened yet
> 
> but people that I know say enthusiastic things about Riviera,
> 
> ...


Nice to know hat the designer and engineer has reputation! I think this amp is good based on its concept and also what I have heard from that system.(Wadax.. tripoint.. sra.. etc) I think that’s the most expensive system I’ve heard for headfi


----------



## Beolab

fredfung28 said:


> If we only use what you see inside to compare the sound.. that will be quite... funny
> Anyway, I just want to share my opinion about the amp and personally don’t have headtrip so I couldn’t compare with it.
> I will do a comparison with gsx mk2 although the price range is too far.
> But I just want to let you guys know there is a great amp coming out. If there is a place to try it, please give it a try




Just a picture of amp design comparion, i can imagine they will sound very unlike eachother, i just thaught the had similarities in circuit design.


----------



## fredfung28

Hope I have a headtrip to compare but it’s so rare to see in Hong Kong.


----------



## biscottino

I can compare my Riviera aic 10 at any time with my Viva Egoista and the Kgss hv Carbon taken a month ago by Birgir. I thought the Viva Egoista with Abyss was my point of arrival, but now the Susvara with the Riviera has opened an even wider horizon, and very far from the Kgss 009 combo ... after listening to the combo Susvara + Riviera, the 009 with the Kgss Carbon looks like a middle class facility.


----------



## biscottino

Beolab said:


> Riviera vs Headtrip



It is always difficult to determine the quality of an amp just from the photos. Just to mention a few differences, the thickness of the Riviera's boards is higher compared to a normal board and the amount of gold used for the tracks is enormous compared to any board that is usually used. Maybe it does not mean anything, but the project has been designed in a manic way and nothing has been left to chance.


----------



## Beolab

I have my self produced curcit boards many years ago, but never heard about gold in the track print, copper is used in 99,99% ?


----------



## biscottino

I assume it's as you say, but if you look closely the track is wider with a larger contact surface than others.


----------



## Beolab

Nevertheless i think it is a great amp for the Phi’s most probably, a condender to HeadTrip Reference and VIVA


----------



## mulder01

You probably can't tell much about the sound from the look of the internals, but if you're paying top dollar for a product, it's not unreasonable to expect a bit of thoughtfulness in the layout.


----------



## biscottino

I paid $ 4400 for a kgss Carbon a month ago, I looked inside and I did not see very heavy things, even the aesthetics is quite normal, but it's an amplifier that sounds good, and the paid dollar is justified. The Riviera has an incredible design and sounds good like no other amp, including Egoist, I can say that the paid dollar is justified.


----------



## FLTWS (Dec 5, 2017)

Just returned from picking up my Phi Lite at Cable Co. Nicely packaged; solid outer and inner cartons, heavy plastic bag around the wooden box,
heavy plastic bag around the velvet bag containing the phone and ear pads, some foam blocks in all the right places.
Cabling identical to the Delux and with a 4 pin to SE adapter.

Compared to the demo (Delux) I had for two weeks;
The only differences I notice out of the box is the metal on the armature is a mat black finish over aluminum instead of brushed aluminum, semi gloss finish on the Delux I demo'd.
The resistance to pull the arm apart is significantly less than on the demo pair.
The hole-to-pin attachments for the ear pads are tighter, had to pinch some of them down to "click" tight.

I'll just bask in the glow for the rest of the evening and start the break-in tomorrow.


----------



## Xecuter

biscottino said:


> I paid $ 4400 for a kgss Carbon a month ago, I looked inside and I did not see very heavy things, even the aesthetics is quite normal, but it's an amplifier that sounds good, and the paid dollar is justified. The Riviera has an incredible design and sounds good like no other amp, including Egoist, I can say that the paid dollar is justified.



Its not. There is about 1k in bom. The price is totally inflated and just because the guy who made it is a specialist yoga master doesn't mean it's worth more. Nothing boutique or exotic about this design or conponentry sorry to say.


----------



## biscottino

Xecuter said:


> Its not. There is about 1k in bom. The price is totally inflated and just because the guy who made it is a specialist yoga master doesn't mean it's worth more. Nothing boutique or exotic about this design or conponentry sorry to say.



I think you're quite out of the way, Spritzer sells comfortably from his home, and his product imported into Europe has an additional 20% tax. 
The Riviera is a product with an unparalleled aesthetic study, a maniac construction and a sound that has few rivals, plus with various distributors in the world.
 The master Yoga is also an engineer and has been designing amplifiers and  Speaker for 30 years, one of the few people able to build from scratch a tube amp, including the winding of the transformers he performs himself. 
http://www.lucachiomenti.it/progetti/kiom/
Honestly I get more shocked for a new Apex at $ 18,000 than on the Riviera.


----------



## Xecuter

@biscottino I will try and get an audition. The Apex price is massive, this hobby is heading into a scary place as far as prices.
Finding gear worthy of the tag and sifting through the marketing BS is harder than ever.


----------



## biscottino

Xecuter said:


> @biscottino I will try and get an audition. The Apex price is massive, this hobby is heading into a scary place as far as prices.
> Finding gear worthy of the tag and sifting through the marketing BS is harder than ever.



you're absolutely right, maybe I'm comforted by the fact that with my riviera when I want I can also listen to my ZuAudio


----------



## MacedonianHero

FLTWS said:


> Just returned from picking up my Phi Lite at Cable Co. Nicely packaged; solid outer and inner cartons, heavy plastic bag around the wooden box,
> heavy plastic bag around the velvet bag containing the phone and ear pads, some foam blocks in all the right places.
> Cabling identical to the Delux and with a 4 pin to SE adapter.
> 
> ...



Actually maybe Joe can correct me if I'm wrong, but the mat black finish is indicative of the Phi version, while the semi-gloss is indicative of the previous version.


----------



## ufospls2

MacedonianHero said:


> Actually maybe Joe can correct me if I'm wrong, but the mat black finish is indicative of the Phi version, while the semi-gloss is indicative of the previous version.



I sent Joe an email a couple weeks ago asking this question. He said a month ago, now a month and a half, they had moved to the new matte black finish. I have an earlier set of Phi (not upgraded from the older model) which has the original finish. This was kind of a bummer to find out as I had always thought to myself "man I would love a matte black Abyss!!!"

I guess thats what I get for purchasing early after the release, haha.


----------



## MacedonianHero

ufospls2 said:


> I sent Joe an email a couple weeks ago asking this question. He said a month ago, now a month and a half, they had moved to the new matte black finish. I have an earlier set of Phi (not upgraded from the older model) which has the original finish. This was kind of a bummer to find out as I had always thought to myself "man I would love a matte black Abyss!!!"
> 
> I guess thats what I get for purchasing early after the release, haha.



That makes total sense. Hey man, SQ is all that really matters in the end.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The matt black is new and not planned, call it a running change. We brought a bead blasting process in-house for Diana and decided to use it on the Phi frames. Both old and new finishes are very nice and done by hand.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Joe Skubinski said:


> The matt black is new and not planned, call it a running change. We brought a bead blasting process in-house for Diana and decided to use it on the Phi frames. Both old and new finishes are very nice and done by hand.



Thanks Joe...agreed they both look great (and most importantly, sound great!).


----------



## draytonklammer

I forgot to mention, when I got my Abyss Phi back a week or two ago they cleaned and repackaged everything too!
Fantastic company -- you wouldn't see Focal, Hifiman, or Audeze go to those lengths IMO.

I almost thought they sent me a brand new product altogether.

Still loving the Phi sound.


----------



## mulder01

ufospls2 said:


> I sent Joe an email a couple weeks ago asking this question. He said a month ago, now a month and a half, they had moved to the new matte black finish. I have an earlier set of Phi (not upgraded from the older model) which has the original finish. This was kind of a bummer to find out as I had always thought to myself "man I would love a matte black Abyss!!!"
> 
> I guess thats what I get for purchasing early after the release, haha.



But only the inside face of the driver is changed so unless you pick them up and look into the earcup, you won't see any difference from the outside...


----------



## FLTWS

That answers the finish change I noticed on the aluminum head band. It's possible the demo unit I listened to was an upgraded original 1266.

On the subject of the the much easier to pull apart L and R arm segments and angling of the drivers I found something very beneficial comes from it for me. Once I get the arms fully extended (fat head) and the pads in the right position (rotated to about the 1:30 position of the seam for me), I slip the phones on straight down from above. The pads automagically adjust the driver angle to equalize the pressure all the way around my ear / jaw because the resistance of the set screw is so much lighter. The phones positioning on my head feels more stable than with the demo with this softer/easier flexing of the two halves of the  metal head band arrangement as I move my head around without it feeling clamped on. Neat! The demo I had was very tight and took significantly greater force to budge. This will also make it easier to slide it together when not using the phones to preserve the O-rings of the leather head rest. 

But, maybe that's not the way it's supposed to work, LOL! In any event, I start my break-in procedure as soon as I finish this first cup a coffee.


----------



## ufospls2

mulder01 said:


> But only the inside face of the driver is changed so unless you pick them up and look into the earcup, you won't see any difference from the outside...



No. The new finish is the top frame part and everything all matte black.


----------



## mulder01

ufospls2 said:


> No. The new finish is the top frame part and everything all matte black.



That's not what I've seen in pics - do you have a photo?  I bought mine years ago and the whole thing is brushed except for the semi gloss on the inside of the cups.



FLTWS said:


> That answers the finish change I noticed on the aluminum head band. It's possible the demo unit I listened to was an upgraded original 1266.
> 
> On the subject of the the much easier to pull apart L and R arm segments and angling of the drivers I found something very beneficial comes from it for me. Once I get the arms fully extended (fat head) and the pads in the right position (rotated to about the 1:30 position of the seam for me), I slip the phones on straight down from above. The pads automagically adjust the driver angle to equalize the pressure all the way around my ear / jaw because the resistance of the set screw is so much lighter. The phones positioning on my head feels more stable than with the demo with this softer/easier flexing of the two halves of the  metal head band arrangement as I move my head around without it feeling clamped on. Neat! The demo I had was very tight and took significantly greater force to budge. This will also make it easier to slide it together when not using the phones to preserve the O-rings of the leather head rest.
> 
> But, maybe that's not the way it's supposed to work, LOL! In any event, I start my break-in procedure as soon as I finish this first cup a coffee.



That screw in the middle of the headband can just be loosened and tightened though right?  So you can make it as firm as you like


----------



## FLTWS

[QUOTE} That screw in the middle of the headband can just be loosened and tightened though right?  So you can make it as firm as you like[/QUOTE]

I thought I remembered reading somewhere that they use a special torque wrench to tighten it, so the factory setting is optimal from their point of view.
Could be wrong though, only Joe knows.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

You don't want to try to turn the top screw, all you'll do is scratch it, it won't turn and not made to be used with a standard screwdriver. We make the screw and a special tool for it.

The entire frame (headband and sides) now has a flat black finish, it's no longer a brushed aluminum finish, it's just flat. We haven't taken any new pix yet, something to add to the list in the New Year.


----------



## ufospls2

mulder01 said:


> That's not what I've seen in pics - do you have a photo?  I bought mine years ago and the whole thing is brushed except for the semi gloss on the inside of the cups.



I haven't seen any good photos of it. These are the best I can find.


----------



## Beolab (Dec 7, 2017)

.


----------



## Xecuter

Doing a little A vs B tonight!


----------



## cradon

Doing a little A vs B tonight![/QUOTE]

What’s your main amp for driving the Abyss?


----------



## Rayzilla

Xecuter said:


> Doing a little A vs B tonight!


Any chance you could be A/B'ing a Phi vs. non-Phi 1266? 
Has anyone had the chance to do that? I would be interested to hear the comments on that. And from those that can recall the difference between them without the benefit of A/B'ing, could someone summarize the differences?
Thanks.


----------



## FLTWS

Rayzilla said:


> Any chance you could be A/B'ing a Phi vs. non-Phi 1266?
> Has anyone had the chance to do that? I would be interested to hear the comments on that. And from those that can recall the difference between them without the benefit of A/B'ing, could someone summarize the differences?
> Thanks.



Mulder01 said something to the effect a few pages back that he didn't see any posts claiming the Original was better that the Phi.                                                                                                                    
I auditioned the Original for a week back 11/2016, didn't care for it, didn't buy it. Auditioned the Phi for 2 weeks 11/2017, I liked it, I bought one (Still breaking them in at this point).
I feel the overall balance of the highs to the mid-range and  to the bass is better with the Phi's. The highs in particular I find extended, yet smooth and non irritating with the Phi's. Checking my notes from last year the Originals struck me as downright dark sounding overall.
I joined this thread just a few months ago, read thru all the posts at that time and don't remember anyone saying the Phi was missing something that the Original had or that the Original did better.
It would be interesting to know if anyone has a different take.


----------



## bozebuttons

cradon said:


> Doing a little A vs B tonight!



What’s your main amp for driving the Abyss?[/QUOTE]
Looks like  he is using his EC Studio.


----------



## mulder01

Rayzilla said:


> Any chance you could be A/B'ing a Phi vs. non-Phi 1266?
> Has anyone had the chance to do that? I would be interested to hear the comments on that. And from those that can recall the difference between them without the benefit of A/B'ing, could someone summarize the differences?
> Thanks.


That's exactly what he's doing - I should have the chance to do the same in about a week.  isquirrel (who is not posting a whole lot here at the moment) had both pairs in his possession at once but you'll probably have to go back a number of pages to find his impressions.
The only negative I have heard about the phi is that some people claim that the bass is not as prominent - like the response curve is a bit more even.  I am a bit of a bass head, so whilst the bass capabilities of the phi are not lost, they seem less apparent in the new version.  That's only what I've read - I'll let you know when i have a listen for myself.
Despite having said that, I've not heard anyone specifically say they like the original better overall.
Bozebuttons is right, it's the Eddie Current Studio.  Not an easy find.


----------



## Xecuter

Yeh. I'm comparing the original to the phi on my eddie current studio. I will also use my Ragnarok.

I'll type a full review for you guys over the week.
So far I would say my issues with the original abyss (upper mid harshness, lower mid suck out, poor lower mid detail, mid bass bleed) have been addressed by the update.
There is less bass presence and transient response seems altered but I will comment in further detail when I've collected my thoughts.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Xecuter said:


> Yeh. I'm comparing the original to the phi on my eddie current studio. I will also use my Ragnarok.
> 
> I'll type a full review for you guys over the week.
> So far I would say my issues with the original abyss (upper mid harshness, lower mid suck out, poor lower mid detail, mid bass bleed) have been addressed by the update.
> There is less bass presence and transient response seems altered but I will comment in further detail when I've collected my thoughts.



I agree with your findings for the most part. I actually enjoy the bass on the new Phi as it seems to be now in perfect proportion to the mids/treble. Listening to some Debussy with them now and while these headphones "rock" they are very articulate, expansive and extremely clear with classical music too!


----------



## Xecuter

MacedonianHero said:


> I agree with your findings for the most part. I actually enjoy the bass on the new Phi as it seems to be now in perfect proportion to the mids/treble. Listening to some Debussy with them now and while these headphones "rock" they are very articulate, expansive and extremely clear with classical music too!



Yes with classical, especially cello! goose bumps.
I heard the Dcs vivaldi stack yesterday as well!


----------



## Stereolab42

MacedonianHero said:


> I agree with your findings for the most part. I actually enjoy the bass on the new Phi as it seems to be now in perfect proportion to the mids/treble. Listening to some Debussy with them now and while these headphones "rock" they are very articulate, expansive and extremely clear with classical music too!



Ehh.... could care less about classical myself. I listen exclusively to rock and metal, with maybe 20% other stuff. Wondering if I really want to roll the dice for $1500 when my name comes up in the upgrade list.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Stereolab42 said:


> Ehh.... could care less about classical myself. I listen exclusively to rock and metal, with maybe 20% other stuff. Wondering if I really want to roll the dice for $1500 when my name comes up in the upgrade list.



I listen to mostly rock too...and these headphones can't be beat! Definitely worth the upgrade to my ears.


----------



## Beolab

Xecuter said:


> Yes with classical, especially cello! goose bumps.
> I heard the Dcs vivaldi stack yesterday as well!




Maxxed out Abyss setup 

How did you like the sound?


----------



## Xecuter

@Beolab
The Dcs vivaldi is an interesting dac. 
I heard it with his Viva 845 and my EC studio.
To my ears the Dcs is tuned to be a bit thicker in the mids, rich and lush sounding with an expansive stage. Very enjoyable but not really my preference.
usb implementation was outstanding, however I preferred the CD-T with dual AES. 
There is definitely some digital processing that goes on in the up-sampling which adds in information from what I can understand. 

I would need a few months to really develop a total understanding of my thoughts. However my brief thoughts from a few hours audition, were this is a very pleasant sounding DAC that does not suffer from any of the usual digital issues, incredibly smooth with an inviting and slightly boosted timbre. Mid bass was maybe slightly boosted as I noticed my studio sounded thicker from mids to bottom. I felt that the Dcs is not ultra resolving, However I don't think this is a bad thing. I just mean that some Dacs are able to dig up more  information but with some genres this tends to make them harder brighter or even fatiguing. The MSB select II with full upgrades is still therefore in my opinion the King of the Dacs as it has the same inviting quality of the Dcs but does not compromise on microdetail. 

Honestly the Dcs was an outstanding pairing with my studio which could do with some more mid bass and weight in the mids. However, I am definitely someone who prefers things to be closer to neutral with slightly more detail.

With the Viva 845 the first thing you notice is the stage is blown wide open, it was really weird, instruments seemed to surround you despite still imaging correctly. The viva is tilted warmer but not hugely so, it is not that incisive or fast in it's transient response and I didn't think it was digging that deep on detail. I think this is largely due to the shughang tube, my friend will try roll in some better quality NOS tubes however I think this might be a slight improvement but  will ultimately be the weak point of this 845 amp. The 845 amp is leaps and bounds better than the viva 2a3, and with most genres the viva is a gorgeous sounding amp. However with complex and fast music i feel it was lagging behind the studio.

Interestingly my friend found my studio to be rather boring sounding, he also disliked that it didn't have that massive enveloping sound that the 845 had. He also said the bass on the studio was his favourite aspect of the studio and he agreed that transients for rock and faster music were indeed better on the studio. He definitely preferred the 845 though.
We are not immune to buyers justification and bias, however i think we both prioritise different things in our systems and I think what he has built is remarkable, beautiful sounding and totally end game.

It really is a matter of tonal preference in these situations. I could happily live with any of this stuff.
I really enjoyed the Dcs stack and think it is a wonderful Dac. Will I buy one? Maybe. I'd like to spend more time with it in NOS mode and also to play around with the filters to see if that last bit of detail is there. I don't like the idea of up sampling everything to DSD, it makes no sense to me.


----------



## Beolab

Xecuter said:


> @Beolab
> The Dcs vivaldi is an interesting dac.
> I heard it with his Viva 845 and my EC studio.
> To my ears the Dcs is tuned to be a bit thicker in the mids, rich and lush sounding with an expansive stage. Very enjoyable but not really my preference.
> ...



OT: 
Thanks for the great sharing of your impression of this ” End-Game - Headphone/Speaker Setup ” 

I also share your impressions of the dCS sound even though i think the Viva and the Studio covering some micro details because of the SNR is not in line with the Vivaldi output spec. Then there are tons of diffrent settings in diffrent combinations, that can be slight frustrating to find the perfect one that suits you the best. 

I have landed on the PCM Asymmetrical filter with short pre and after ringing, because i feel the DSD upsampling doesn't sound analog / musical enough , it sounds more cosmetic and unreal / dead to me, but do have more precision and faster start and stop to it. 
I have set dither II to On ( Dithering makes the clock to auto correct the clock synchronisation signal every second because of a implemented out of band high frequency dither noise)  and 6 volts output for the highest SNR / Dynamic Range value according to the manual, and you do hear a big diffrence with the 6 volts through single or balanced output vs 2 volts actually when it is volume matched.

The midrange on my Rossini incl master Clock and Puccini inkl master clock with dCS Network Bridge does not sound thick in the mids to me, its more towards the thin side i have to say. And yes the dCS ring dac products does not got any artefacts or anything wrong, it is just fluidly perfect with remarkable precision, and more naturally detailed in the resolution vs MSB in my opinion. 
But yes if you are a micro detail freak, then the MSB is the way to go i would say, but dCS got more weight and slight better depht and precision to my ears. 

Great discussion, hope you find a dCS that suits you.. the clock and the Network Bridge does a huge lift on my Phi’s and on my new TAD speakers.


----------



## biscottino

I own the Viva Egoista and I had the Abyss and I recognize that it was certainly one of the bests ever heard.
 On the Viva Egoista, to increase performance, I would dedicate time and money to the rectifier tube, 5u4gb, you can use a 5u4g also, a pair of Nos valves, can really bring about a quantum leap. 
The 6sn7 definitely worth taking a Tung Sol nos GT version with a black base, rich in harmonics and detail.
Last thing, i change 845 with a Western Electric Replica, you have to play them at least 200 or even 300 hours, to make them fine, but in the end, you will touch paradise.


----------



## matthewhypolite (Dec 12, 2017)

Just unboxed my Phi.

I'm not at home, currently on vacation in Orlando, so i dont have my main rig with me to give it a fair run.
But thought i'd throw something together to test out this new beast.






I know folks say give it about 300hrs to burn in before testing.
So these are my quick impressions from a few minutes of first listen:

Right away i could tell these are a different animal than the original, the transient response, detail retrieval, micro detail extraction is amazing, there just seems to be more space and air, imaging is amazing, instrument placement seems improved. I'm blown away at how much extra in familiar tracks is "there". The cans just seem more resolving, but not analytical, still retains the abyss signature. Vocals sound improved as well.

The bass does seem to lack the insane bottom end compared to a broken in Abyss, but it is still very much there. Very tight and controlled. Will have to allow them time to break in, then run my proper suite of tests and see what comes out on the other end. Final verdict reserved until then, but based on what i'm hearing so far, i think we have a winner.

Thanks Joe.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

You're Welcome


----------



## matthewhypolite

Some more quick notes:

*Phi General Notes:*

*First Hour:*

Improved efficiency, volume nob reduced about 10%. Gain changed from high to low. Low gain now sounds better.
Detail retrieval substantially improved. Micro detail is amazing, notes heard that were not previously heard on Original Abyss.

Note decay stretches on for miles, the very last whispers and breaths on notes can now be heard bringing a level of immersion and realism that was not previously present.

More space and greater soundstage. Instrument placement improved.

Bottomless bass a bit recessed compared to original but should open up over time. Bass tight and precise and very much still powerful.

Treble seems to be reined in and put under control. The original could sometimes seem fatiguing and a bit sharp on the treble in certain tracks, the phi brings the treble under control and smooths out the bite. This makes for a much more enjoyable listen.

I am thoroughly impressed by what these cans are doing straight out of the box, I shudder to think what this monster is going to turn into post 300hrs.


Time to pack up my rig and ship the pieces off to their new respective owners.
Full review will come in the new year when i get home.


----------



## jscmd2000

Is that liquid gold?  Wow, hmmm...  nice!


----------



## matthewhypolite

jscmd2000 said:


> Is that liquid gold?  Wow, hmmm...  nice!



Yea, actually up for sale now, going out the door probably tomorrow.
Transitioning to tubes, WA33 EE or 234 Mono. Still haven't decided which.


----------



## Xecuter

matthewhypolite said:


> Yea, actually up for sale now, going out the door probably tomorrow.
> Transitioning to tubes, WA33 EE or 234 Mono. Still haven't decided which.



I think the wa33 is a fair bit better than wa234. Also consider EC studio, DN stellaris or a custom amp from Glenn if you want the best tube amps available.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Xecuter said:


> I think the wa33 is a fair bit better than wa234. Also consider EC studio, DN stellaris or a custom amp from Glenn if you want the best tube amps available.



Please elaborate on the 33 vs 234, you have experience with both?


----------



## Xecuter

I'll pm you this evening.


----------



## Thenewguy007

matthewhypolite, do you think the new Phi will overtake the Utopia in any category you originally gave to the Utopia in your TOTL comparison?


----------



## matthewhypolite

Thenewguy007 said:


> matthewhypolite, do you think the new Phi will overtake the Utopia in any category you originally gave to the Utopia in your TOTL comparison?



Way too early to tell as i only had 1hr with it, and not able to a/b atm.
Also, from the little i heard, the Phi is at it's heart an abyss, just....better.
So it's hard to say if it will take the utopia in the categories i gave it to as the signature of the abyss has not changed.
But from what i've heard, it's quite possible. 

Sorry i cant give you more, and it will be about a month before i can, vacation and all, lol.
But i plan to add the Phi to my TOTL Review, so we'll see how it stacks up then.


----------



## fredfung28

Thenewguy007 said:


> matthewhypolite, do you think the new Phi will overtake the Utopia in any category you originally gave to the Utopia in your TOTL comparison?


I owned utopia and sold it after getting phi, I think they are different taste, utopia is more intimate, vocal has more musical and sweetness, but soundstage is smaller, imaging is not as good as phi, also listening to classical stuff, phi is sure winner. The strings imagining is so crazy in phi presentation.


----------



## fredfung28

matthewhypolite said:


> Please elaborate on the 33 vs 234, you have experience with both?


If you have the budget to buy 33, I think it’s best to also try the Riviera aic10, this headphone amp is really crazy which makes phi has more control and a wider soundstage. 
Of course I don’t have any way to compare with top tube amp as I don’t have them.. but the riviera aic10 has a really great sound with abyss, please try it before buying other amp. I think it’s worth trying


----------



## matthewhypolite

fredfung28 said:


> I owned utopia and sold it after getting phi, I think they are different taste, utopia is more intimate, vocal has more musical and sweetness, but soundstage is smaller, imaging is not as good as phi, also listening to classical stuff, phi is sure winner. The strings imagining is so crazy in phi presentation.



In my totl review I had already given classical to abyss. It really shines there.


----------



## fredfung28

My amp has finally arrived, will post some thoughts today!


----------



## Beolab

Great demo-track of Fink for the Phi’s

https://tidal.com/track/17433741 https://tidal.com/track/17433741


----------



## mulder01

Ok so I had the privilege of listening to the phi alongside the original abyss today.  I'm definitely not the most experienced critical listener, nor am I the most articulate person when it comes to describing differences, so I'll keep it brief. 

I tried them off a friend's pc, into his vintage ladder dac then my vio 281.  The 281 can run 2x single ended headphones at the same time so I plugged the OG abyss and phi into it which made it possible to hot swap them with the whole chain of gear exactly the same with the only difference being the drivers themselves.  Though due to the higher efficiency of the phi, they were not volume matched so I had to turn the volume knob up and down a couple of clicks between swaps.  Didn't bring any pink noise or a proper SPL meter to volume match, but I think it was close enough for my satisfaction.

That was a long intro for some pretty short points:   
1. I don't agree with the comments on the apparent loss of bass - to my ears nothing was missing in the low end.
2. I agree more with the first few adopters of the phi that the difference is there, but subtle.  I'd say evolution rather than revolution.  I am surprised that someone could listen to the original abyss and be 'meh' and then hear the phi version and fall in love - they're not THAT different - if they were, there would be 2 different products / 2 different names / 2 different prices etc, but instead they have just updated what they call the Abyss - it's still very much the beast it was, with a few subtle changes.  I probably didn't spend enough time with them to have a definitive opinion on which is 'better' and why.  All I can say is that to my ears the "different beast" and "totally transformed" type comments are a bit overstated.  Since I mainly use my abyss with my Lotoo now, the biggest selling point for me would be the extra efficiency as they can be driven harder from underpowered gear... 

Anyway, if I do decide to go with the upgrade and there's a 6 month wait, I won't be hating on my OG abyss too hard in the meantime...

Of course,
IMHO
Emphasis on the H


----------



## fredfung28

Finally set the riviera amp and taoc rack..!
The amp sounds very nice! Will give some review after burning in
The speed is very nice, and the sound coming is very natural, with a little sweetness and nice imaging..! Compare to gsx.. I have to say this one a lot musical than gsx and with a lot better texture and imaging, of course the price is a lot more expensive ..


----------



## FLTWS

mulder01 said:


> Ok so I had the privilege of listening to the phi alongside the original abyss today.  I'm definitely not the most experienced critical listener, nor am I the most articulate person when it comes to describing differences, so I'll keep it brief.
> 
> I tried them off a friend's pc, into his vintage ladder dac then my vio 281.  The 281 can run 2x single ended headphones at the same time so I plugged the OG abyss and phi into it which made it possible to hot swap them with the whole chain of gear exactly the same with the only difference being the drivers themselves.  Though due to the higher efficiency of the phi, they were not volume matched so I had to turn the volume knob up and down a couple of clicks between swaps.  Didn't bring any pink noise or a proper SPL meter to volume match, but I think it was close enough for my satisfaction.
> 
> ...



I agree, my experience as well and thanks for the effort.


----------



## biscottino

fredfung28 said:


> Finally set the riviera amp and taoc rack..!
> The amp sounds very nice! Will give some review after burning in
> The speed is very nice, and the sound coming is very natural, with a little sweetness and nice imaging..! Compare to gsx.. I have to say this one a lot musical than gsx and with a lot better texture and imaging, of course the price is a lot more expensive ..


Great amp, my compliments.


----------



## m17xr2b

@mulder01 Thanks you for the comments. The signal to noise ration can be quite high so I'm happy when actual down to earth information is shared. That's what I assumed but I don't have a chance to listen to them side by side. This is similar with the LCD-3 and LCD-4 which I have owned for quite some time. The LCD-4 is better but if you don't like the LCD-3 I don't think you will like the LCD-4 and people exaggerate on the difference between them.
I'm thinking of selling the Abyss but wasn't sure to do the upgrade first, but if they'r as similar as you say I can let them go without remorse as I prefer the HD650.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Never got the love for the HD650. 

I listened to them on a few occasions & I think they are good, but from all the high end headphones I tried, I felt they were all a level above the HD650.


----------



## mulder01

m17xr2b said:


> @mulder01 Thanks you for the comments. The signal to noise ration can be quite high so I'm happy when actual down to earth information is shared. That's what I assumed but I don't have a chance to listen to them side by side. This is similar with the LCD-3 and LCD-4 which I have owned for quite some time. The LCD-4 is better but if you don't like the LCD-3 I don't think you will like the LCD-4 and people exaggerate on the difference between them.
> I'm thinking of selling the Abyss but wasn't sure to do the upgrade first, but if they'r as similar as you say I can let them go without remorse as I prefer the HD650.



Well, like I said, that's my opinion - my friend said he definitely preferred the phi (like most people do) but how much better it is, is up to the individual.  There was nothing about the OG abyss that I didn't like, so IMO it doesn't need fixing.  Some people have a couple of small specific complaints about the original that seem to be addressed by the upgrade (from what I read here).

But, again, I'm not big on critical analysis, but I recognise that a lot of Abyss owners want to squeeze every last drop out of their system, regardless of cost.  So for someone who has reached the point of spending 5 figures on their dac and/or amp, or purchasing super duper interconnects, music servers, power conditioners etc to try and get that last % of performance, then $1.5k to upgrade the headphone drivers is probably a no-brainer.

Funny you mention the HD650, as the only other headphones I put on my head that day were the HD650.  I'll admit, in terms of bang for your buck, you can't go wrong with those.  I tried them briefly off the EC Studio and damn son, those things scale.  Why anyone would spend US$10k on an amp and tubes made from parts as rare as unicorn tears and plug a $300 headphone into them, leaves me scratching my head a bit.  I will have to agree with Thenewguy007 here - I feel that even a HD650 off the world's best system is still always gonna be a good few steps behind the Abyss powered by even a very modest system.  We're all different though.


----------



## m17xr2b

Well the HD650 does scale, it's scary how well they do. On my current setup after careful tube selection I find it has better and wider soundstage that the abyss with better instrument placement.


----------



## jlbrach

a ford taurus with the proper tires can really scale and amazingly handles better than the 100K mercedes


----------



## mulder01

jlbrach said:


> a ford taurus with the proper tires can really scale and amazingly handles better than the 100K mercedes



Do I sense a touch of sarcasm?


----------



## jlbrach

you do indeed!


----------



## jlbrach

m17xr2b said:


> Well the HD650 does scale, it's scary how well they do. On my current setup after careful tube selection I find it has better and wider soundstage that the abyss with better instrument placement.



How lucky you are,you will never be tempted to buy an expensive pair of HP's since the 650s are better than the Abyss to your ears!


----------



## Rayzilla

If anyone is interested in trading for a mint condition STAX SR-009, let me know. I wouldn't mind buying but I want to avoid having to get the green light to get one of these. Deluxe package preferred. 

Thanks


----------



## Rayzilla

Based on the comments between the Phi and non-Phi, it sounds a little like the difference between the HD800S and the HD800. Is it a similar difference or change?


----------



## jscmd2000

I have the hd800s and not the hd800 but am pretty sure that the modification was to soften the treble peak.
I have the phi and not the original abyss but am pretty sure the phi has improved treble extension, some say slightly less bass boost as well.


----------



## mulder01

Rayzilla said:


> Based on the comments between the Phi and non-Phi, it sounds a little like the difference between the HD800S and the HD800. Is it a similar difference or change?



I think it will depend who you ask.  

To me the difference was not huge, but the friend who's phi I tried (who must be still working on his comparison) showed me his scores on various headphones and I think he scored the OG abyss a 3 or so out of 10 for upper mids (and the phi a lot higher).  So for someone who has written-off the original abyss in the past because something about the mids bugged them, it might make all the difference in the world...

It's hard to know how someone else will interpret the changes.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Rayzilla said:


> Based on the comments between the Phi and non-Phi, it sounds a little like the difference between the HD800S and the HD800. Is it a similar difference or change?



Quite a bit more profound to my ears.


----------



## Xecuter

mulder01 said:


> I think it will depend who you ask.
> 
> To me the difference was not huge, but the friend who's phi I tried (who must be still working on his comparison) showed me his scores on various headphones and I think he scored the OG abyss a 3 or so out of 10 for upper mids (and the phi a lot higher).  So for someone who has written-off the original abyss in the past because something about the mids bugged them, it might make all the difference in the world...
> 
> It's hard to know how someone else will interpret the changes.



I haven't completed a full write up yet (still drafting). However I wanted to clarify what I was referring to with a score of 3/10.

This is a subjective based assessment based on how 'correct' I found some of the best headphones. I found the upper mids to be harsh, metallic and the greatest weakness of the original abyss and thus gave it a score of 3/10
@mulder01  I don't think I will share the radar graph with the public as it was more to make my own thoughts easier to compare. Plus a lot of people have differing opinions on what sounds more correct so it's really only valuable to myself or those who know my preferences


----------



## Thenewguy007

Xecuter said:


> I haven't completed a full write up yet (still drafting). However I wanted to clarify what I was referring to with a score of 3/10.
> 
> This is a subjective based assessment based on how 'correct' I found some of the best headphones. I found the upper mids to be harsh, metallic and the greatest weakness of the original abyss and thus gave it a score of 3/10
> @mulder01  I don't think I will share the radar graph with the public as it was more to make my own thoughts easier to compare. Plus a lot of people have differing opinions on what sounds more correct so it's really only valuable to myself or those who know my preferences



The upper mids were harsh & metallic even with the tube based SFD-1 mkii SE+ DAC?


----------



## Xecuter

Thenewguy007 said:


> The upper mids were harsh & metallic even with the tube based SFD-1 mkii SE+ DAC?



It's a problem with the driver. Even on coloured amps it annoyed me. Really only noticeable with certain instruments.







Since its Xmas and I'm in a sharing mood.. this is still a bit of a draft. Tone/timbre was purposely omitted.


----------



## mulder01

heh, there it is. I wasn't trying to hold you too firmly to that score, more so just trying to use that comment as an example, because I have heard other people mention in the past that they didn't like the old abyss's mids (for whatever reason).  So those people might much prefer the phi?  Dunno - hard to know what other people's ears will hear...


----------



## jscmd2000

Um, the HE1 on the graph is the new Orpheus, correct? not hifiman he1000, just making sure.  Wondering how the Susvara fits in... not a fan of the brand but have been hearing good and bad things.  Don't know if you saw, but Amos' recent review was interesting.


----------



## Xecuter

jscmd2000 said:


> Um, the HE1 on the graph is the new Orpheus, correct? not hifiman he1000, just making sure.  Wondering how the Susvara fits in... not a fan of the brand but have been hearing good and bad things.  Don't know if you saw, but Amos' recent review was interesting.



Yeh the new Orpheus. I have heard Susvara with wa33 in Singapore. It's very competent, similar bass quantity and quality to abyss phi. It does have a little spike in upper mids, highs lacked sparkle and not hugely resolving but otherwise it has great staging, precise imaging and very enjoyable. I guess when hifiman inevitably updates and the price crashes I might be tempted but personally I'd take phi or OG over susvara.
Differences is mostly tonality.
I only heard it for 20 minutes so I don't feel confident enough to add it to my radar graph!


----------



## Rayzilla

How does the warranty work when buying a used Abyss (Original model)?

How long will the $1500 offer to upgrade run until, indefinitely?


----------



## simorag (Dec 28, 2017)

Hello guys, after lurking for several months on this thread (thank you everybody for the valuable contribution btw) I purchased the Abyss AB-1266 Phi (just Phi hereafter) a couple of weeks ago.

I am still under 100hr of playtime, so perhaps still in the burn-in period, but I wanted to share my impressions with the community.

I have a pretty limited experience on TOTL headphones, and my rig (see signature) is obviously not able to squeeze every drop of performance out of the Phi, so please take all what follows with even more than the usual grain of salt.

*Premise*

My other headphones are the HD800S, and I like them very much, and still think they are hard to beat with some aspects of the presentation (e.g. imaging) and with some specific music genres (e.g. chamber music).

I listen about 60% classical (from baroque to late romantic, from chamber / solo violin and cello to piano, organ, symphonic, no opera), 20% acoustic / vocal jazz, 15% “classic” progressive rock (Pink Floyd, Police, Radiohead, ...), 5% pop and electronica.

I think I am a rather analytic type of listener, and I value much transparency, soundstage and imaging, tonal accuracy, detail retrieval, but in the same time I like the adrenalin flows coming from visceral impact of realistic-level presentation of big bands or orchestras, and ultra-bass rumble of some amplified jazz or EDM tracks.

After 1 year, I found that the HD800S were holding me back from fully enjoying music where the sub-bass plays a fundamental role (large orchestral pieces, some grand piano passages, organ, modern bass-heavy recordings), and had some issues with sibilance and occasional glare around vocals, especially female.

I tried the Audeze LCD-4 for a week at home but in the end, while they are great headphones and indeed were improving on all the HD800S drawbacks, to me the trade-off in terms of transparency, separation, imaging, PRaT was a deal breaker. I also briefly auditioned the Utopia, but in that short listening time, the size reduction of the soundstage made me miss the out-of-your-head experience the HD800S are able to provide.

After a lot of reading (no chance to seriously audition other TOTL headphones I was considering like Susvara, SR009), I decided to take the risk and pull the trigger on the Phi.

*Fit and Comfort*

I was a bit concerned about this, especially coming from one of the most light and comfortable TOTL headphones, but after playing a while with the frame / pads adjustments as recommended by Abyss and described by others in this thread, I was able to get a seemingly right fit and I have no dramatic issues with comfort. The lack of pressure of the pads on my ears / head is actually an improvement over the HD800S (which overall are still more comfy for me), and I feel no pressure points on the headband.

The sheer weight of the Phi is something I end up noticing over long listening sessions, and actually after 3+ hours of continuous listening I can feel some neck fatigue, while not reaching “pain” level.

Something vaguely related with comfort which I did not like is the touch and feel of the Lite cables, which I find relatively stiff and sticky, making me more aware of their existence than I would like.

*Abyss Phi Listening Impressions*

The two things that impressed me about the Phi from the very first moment are: a) how big they sound and b) their incredible bass presentation.

The former was a surprise, because I thought that the HD800S were the largest sounding headphones on the market, but the Abyss Phi provide an even more expansive soundstage. The width increases slightly, but the depth is really impressive, providing a credible illusion of a three-dimensional soundstage.

This characteristic makes some genres (e.g. orchestral) and recordings (i.e. where the ambience of the venue is accurately captured) extremely enjoyable, exceeding what I thought it was possible with headphones.

On the other hand, closely miked recordings of piano or violin, or small instrumental ensembles are presented within an over-inflated space, making the experience, while immersive, seem unnatural.

As for the bass, this was more expected because of the reviews I read and by knowing that the HD800S don’t shine under 80Hz.

But the quantity and quality of the Phi lower frequency reproduction, again, significantly exceeded my expectations (and the LCD-4 performance, for me), by providing a physical impact close to adding a subwoofer to a 2-channel setup (while affecting only the eardrums and jaw / skull).

Listening to organ music or to the attack of a pattern of double basses in an orchestral piece with the Phi is an emotional experience that brings you almost physically at the venue, not to mention the fun and adrenalin I could get from electronica (rediscovered my Depeche Mode collection ) or EDM.

Of course, with bass-heavy recordings, one can find the bass of the Phi a bit overwhelming.

The impressive thing, to me, is that the Phi are able to provide this type of brute force involvement, and at the same time match and in some cases outperform the HD800S where I thought they were at their best, i.e. with baroque music. The Phi provide the nuance, detail retrieval, instrument separation, imaging, focus and tonal accuracy that I need for enjoying this kind of music.

I care a lot about imaging, and while the HD800S and Utopia both shape a more laser-cut like image of a singer or an instrument, the Phi seem to provide more context to that image by representing it within a given ambience and environmental surround, which turns out in less wow! effect, but perhaps more realism in some cases.

The same stands with acoustic jazz and with vocals, where the timbre of the instruments and the flesh-and-bones feeling of the recorded voices is generally reproduced in a very lifelike fashion, to my ears (actually, the Audeze LCD-4 gave me more sense of body and seduction from vocals, especially female).

Also, with rock and modern pop music, the strong foundation coming from the exceptional bass reproduction, and the big sounding, cinematic soundstage provide an emotional link that puts a smile on my face with some classic Michael Jackson (try Dirty Diana!), or even Metallica and AC/DC, which I found too aggressive or even dry / harsh with HD800S and Utopia, and too slow / boring with LCD-4.

With respect to HD800S, the Phi are slightly more forgiving and I can get fun listening even with some mp3 of pop from the 80’s that were simply unbearable with the Sennheiser. By the way, for whom may be interested, more on the Phi vs HD800S comparison can be found in this post.

I am finding the Phi mostly in line with my tastes on all areas, so that I am not able to pinpoint significant weaknesses, strictly speaking. However, here is where I believe (by comparison with HD800S, LCD-4, Utopia and live listening) there is room for further improvement:

-        Sibilance. This is the only part of the presentation that annoys me about the Phi, notably with female vocals. Please note that I am VERY sensitive to sibilance / harshness, so others may not even notice this with the Phi. I was expecting a reduction of sibilance w.r.t. HD800S, while I have found it to worsen. Of course, this can be the result of my audio chain and not related only / mainly to the Phi.

-        Resolution / articulation: I find that the HD800S and Utopia are more resolving. Practical examples: some words spoken in the background (Pink Floyd Astronomy Domine) or non-musical (mechanical / breathing / seat squeaks) noise on some piano recordings (e.g. Beethoven sonatas from Yundi Li) are clearly recognizable and understandable with the HD800S / Utopia, and fuzzier with the Phi.

-        Slightly recessed mids. In some cases, I found a pleasing more presence in the vocals and soloists displayed by the HD800S, while the Phi was showing a slightly recessed picture.

*Conclusion and Next Steps*

My conclusion at this stage is that I am really happy I got the Phi (a quite short and trivial one for such a long post).

While I still believe that, when put in a price / performance perspective, the HD800S may provide a better score, the Phi are a clear step-up (IMHO), and we all know that at this level the diminishing returns law strikes hard into our bank accounts!

Speaking about wallet raping, I am already planning my next steps for improving my rig, as I am confident that the Phi will scale very well accordingly.

I have some ideas that I would like to share with you expert head-fiers and longer terms users of the Phi, so will ask for some advice in the next future!


----------



## simorag

I am glad to report that after another 40-50 hours of burn-in, the sibilance issues on the Phi are notably mitigated.

Now, when I switch between the Phi and the HD800S and play some tracks that exhibit sibilance I find that the HD800S are slightly brighter than the Phi, while it was the reverse before.

Furthermore, I am using new USB cable since a few days, namely the Phasure Lush, which has modified the sound of my system more than what I thought it was possible (not night and day, of course, but more that I thought an USB cable could do).
I still have to adapt and fully understand the new sound, and the Lush as well reportedly requires a long burn-in, but for sure the vocals have less sibilance and perhaps slightly more presence / body than with my previous USB cable.

Therefore, at this point I would say that sibilance is not anymore a _major_ issue for me!


----------



## jscmd2000

I have to admit I've been lazy about letting my Phi burn in more since getting them about 6 weeks ago.  I am probably at about 25-50 hrs.  I do notice the sibilance and will have to work harder on keeping them on.  Is there a better way or more efficient way to burn in other than just pink noise?


----------



## zimzim2001

I have a Phi incoming today on loan from the Cable Company.  My expectations are high.  I'll be using an Aries upsampling to Dave to WA5LE or Milo.  Now I need to do some reading on fitting. I hope it's easy, I'm not the most patient person, lol.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Had mine for a few months now and these are the most "speaker-like" headphones I've listened to. Very impressive!


----------



## draytonklammer

MacedonianHero said:


> Had mine for a few months now and these are the most "speaker-like" headphones I've listened to. Very impressive!



I still love mine. Only headphone I am considering right now is eventually the HD 820.


----------



## MacedonianHero

draytonklammer said:


> I still love mine. Only headphone I am considering right now is eventually the HD 820.



Looks intriguing for sure for a closed back headphone option. Looking forward to hearing it!


----------



## matthewhypolite

I also have my eye on the 820,looking forward to impressions.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Hands up to all the AB1266 owners keen on the new HD820!


----------



## mulder01

zimzim2001 said:


> I have a Phi incoming today on loan from the Cable Company.  My expectations are high.  I'll be using an Aries upsampling to Dave to WA5LE or Milo.  Now I need to do some reading on fitting. I hope it's easy, I'm not the most patient person, lol.



Just open them right up and adjust them in until they are gently touching your head.  That's about it - you can toe them in/out etc to introduce an air gap and change the FR if you like, but it's not essential - just an added bonus.


----------



## simorag

My discovery journey with the Abyss Phi continues ... 

Listening to live music played in large venues, such as large orchestral compositions (Stravisnky / Karajan String concerto as I am writing this) and big rock live concerts (Eric Clapton / JJ Cole) is a transcendental experience with the Phi. The sense of ambience and physical feeling of large air volumes, the three dimensional stage (clapping of hands, shouts from the crowd in the distance) are shockingly real for a headphone.

Just my 2cents, as an heads up to anybody who is into this kind of genres.


----------



## jlbrach

I am lucky enough to have the hugo 2 and the LCD-I4 for portable use along with the Dave/Blu2 combo with my Phi....last night i was briefly listening to the I4 and H2 and marveling at how wonderful it sounded...I took it off and played the same music through the Dave/Blu2 and Phi and just said WOW!...I stand by my thinking the H2 and I4 as being the best portable option available...simply terrific but the combo with the Phi makes it hard to imagine further improvement even though I know  in a few years there will be the latest and greatest!


----------



## lambdastorm

I still remember the first time I heard them at CanJam. It was fairly noisy at JPS booth but when the music started to play everything faded away, just me, Abyss, Xia amp and nothing else. Simply put, this is the ultimate headphone when it comes to physicality. It has that uncanny ability to, quote unquote, 'portray' music rather than just play it. And it left me wondering how headphones can sound this close to full-range speakers.


----------



## Blitzula

I really want to hear them. 

Headphones bother my ears, screwed up my hearing for months last time. Still recovering, but will audition once that's passed.


----------



## draytonklammer

Still loving my Abyss Phi.
Glad I made the upgrade.

Haven't heard anything better from headphones.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Listening to Sgt. Pepper tonight with them and I'm absolutely loving what I'm hearing!

Don't miss my Stax headphones one bit.


----------



## Blitzula

You guys are killing me: ).


----------



## Beolab

With the right synergy from the grear the sounds is better than High End speakers often, and that i highly regard! 

It can knock you down when the music demand it or play like fast and neutral like electrostatic , it is more the gear you set it up with that is the kapten of the Abyss


----------



## Rayzilla

A little late to the party but at least I am now at the party and what a party it is. I just purchased a very little used Abyss (original and Deluxe). I can't imagine getting the itch to look for another headphone, except maybe for the HD820 and only because it is closed. HD800 was my all time favourite until not long ago when I got the ifi iDSD BL and started listening to my HE6. It's a great headphone even without the mods but this original 1266 is WOW!!!


----------



## jscmd2000

I am also searching for a closed pair that can measure up, but it has been a disappointing.  I am hopeful for the HD820s as well but recently saw 2 video impressions stating they are "bass-light" and thin, granted the demos circulating now are not the final tuning to be released.

I had no idea that the Phi's require so much burn in.  Mine are at about 75 hours and getting much better, but the mids remain noticeably recessed and a bit sibilant.


----------



## Blitzula

jscmd2000 said:


> ...the mids remain noticeably recessed...



Do you think that's an imbalance because of the powerful bass?


----------



## Thenewguy007

jscmd2000 said:


> I am also searching for a closed pair that can measure up, but it has been a disappointing.  I am hopeful for the HD820s as well but recently saw 2 video impressions stating they are "bass-light" and thin, granted the demos circulating now are not the final tuning to be released.
> 
> I had no idea that the Phi's require so much burn in.  Mine are at about 75 hours and getting much better, but the mids remain noticeably recessed and a bit sibilant.



Are you driving the Abyss with the Dave?


----------



## jscmd2000

Blitzula said:


> Do you think that's an imbalance because of the powerful bass?



I don't think it is from the bass.  If I try to match the mids to my other headphones like the Utopia, the bass and treble become too prominent and overpowering.  I can hear that it is getting better with time, but still noticeable and sound V shaped.  I am trying to burn them in more diligently. 



Thenewguy007 said:


> Are you driving the Abyss with the Dave?



Sometimes, but mostly connected to my Yggy/Rag.  I do prefer the Abyss more than the Utopia in both setups.


----------



## phase0

jscmd2000 said:


> I am also searching for a closed pair that can measure up, but it has been a disappointing.  I am hopeful for the HD820s as well but recently saw 2 video impressions stating they are "bass-light" and thin, granted the demos circulating now are not the final tuning to be released.



I asked in that thread about the HD820 bass and someone said it's not bass light but well balanced. I already know it's not a HP I'm buying. I may be done actually. I know I am for now. Abyss for desktop listening and I got some good IEMs for compact/portable/isolation.


----------



## draytonklammer

phase0 said:


> I asked in that thread about the HD820 bass and someone said it's not bass light but well balanced. I already know it's not a HP I'm buying. I may be done actually. I know I am for now. Abyss for desktop listening and I got some good IEMs for compact/portable/isolation.



This ^

I am so tempted by this and the Shangri La Jr (depending on reviews) but the Abyss Phi feels like home.


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> This ^
> 
> I am so tempted by this and the Shangri La Jr (depending on reviews) but the Abyss Phi feels like home.



Look, I usually like to reserve my judgement of something until I've had a good listen for myself, and I am always open to trying new products.  But if the Shangri La Jr is the thing to knock the 1266 off the top of the heap, I'll eat my hat.


----------



## matthewhypolite

mulder01 said:


> Look, I usually like to reserve my judgement of something until I've had a good listen for myself, and I am always open to trying new products.  But if the Shangri La Jr is the thing to knock the 1266 off the top of the heap, I'll eat my hat.


 Shangri-la Jr? Is that a new HP they are coming out with? Electro or planar? Price? Eta?


----------



## draytonklammer

matthewhypolite said:


> Shangri-la Jr? Is that a new HP they are coming out with? Electro or planar? Price? Eta?




It's an electrostatic headphone and amplifier for $8000. 

To be honest I want to have high hopes but I don't.


----------



## matthewhypolite (Jan 24, 2018)

Right, will see how that turns out.

Patiently waiting to listen to my Phi.
Thought I could go back down to my HR Ultrastack whiles I wait on my new amp, but the quality degradation over the Lau was too great.

So just waiting it out until my new amp gets here before I open up the monster that is the Phi.

I estimate 1 week wait again.


----------



## djd1122

matthewhypolite said:


> Right, will see how that turns out.
> 
> Patiently waiting to listen to my Phi.
> Though I could go back down to my Har Ultrastack whiles I wait on my new amp, but the quality degradation over the Lau was too great.
> ...



What new amp do you have on order?


----------



## matthewhypolite

djd1122 said:


> What new amp do you have on order?



WA33 EE


----------



## Rayzilla

matthewhypolite said:


> WA33 EE


Nice!

Does anyone have any experience combining their Abyss with the WA22?


----------



## jlbrach

my abyss is paired with the chord dave....


----------



## jscmd2000

Same here, and I am loving the consequence... there isn't a thing I want more right now.
After more burn-in, my Phi is sounding so much more natural and open. YMMV, but I heard some issues before I had in 100 hrs.


----------



## simorag

New Phi / DAVE user here ... a special experience indeed!


----------



## ufospls2

Hey Guys. I posted some thoughts about the Susvara vs. AB-1266 Phi in the Susvara thread, and thought some of you might be interested.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/page-65#post-14003758

Susvara is a killer headphone, but I'm still and AB-1266 Phi guy.


----------



## ufospls2

Well. I have spent the last day testing the iFi Pro iCAN with my Abyss Phi, and it is doing really well with it. It has enough power, but isn't an unrefined brute. The addition of the tube and tube+ modes is a nice addition with the Phi. While the differences are quite subtle, its definitely a nice flavour to have available. Great clarity and dynamics for the price IMO. Is it the best amp for the Abyss, cost no object? No, but it is really good and punches above it price point I think. I would recommend checking it out if you need an amp for your Abyss and don't want to break the bank too badly. Adorama has them on sale for $1299USD occasionally if I remember correctly, and at that price I would reckon it is hard to beat. Two thumbs up!


----------



## Slim1970

ufospls2 said:


> Well. I have spent the last day testing the iFi Pro iCAN with my Abyss Phi, and it is doing really well with it. It has enough power, but isn't an unrefined brute. The addition of the tube and tube+ modes is a nice addition with the Phi. While the differences are quite subtle, its definitely a nice flavour to have available. Great clarity and dynamics for the price IMO. Is it the best amp for the Abyss, cost no object? No, but it is really good and punches above it price point I think. I would recommend checking it out if you need an amp for your Abyss and don't want to break the bank too badly. Adorama has them on sale for $1299USD occasionally if I remember correctly, and at that price I would reckon it is hard to beat. Two thumbs up!


I like your setup. I'm thinking about adding the abyss to my headphone collection. The fact that you are enjoying the pairing with the Pro iCan is bonus for me because I have the same amp.


----------



## draytonklammer

spotify:track:2JGSZk5y65ZF79mtDz0o9r

Fantastic track! Got lost in it on the Abyss Phi.

(Polish Girl - Neon Indian) (an indie/electric track)


----------



## jlbrach

draytonklammer said:


> spotify:track:2JGSZk5y65ZF79mtDz0o9r
> 
> Fantastic track! Got lost in it on the Abyss Phi.
> 
> (Polish Girl - Neon Indian) (an indie/electric track)



damn,spending all that money and listening to spotify lossy music?....must say it seems rather incongruous ....i have a spotify account i use on my computer when i quickly want to hear an album before buying and i  listen through the laptop speakers so the MP3 doesnt matter to  me but serious listening with my Phi's.....not a chance


----------



## draytonklammer

jlbrach said:


> damn,spending all that money and listening to spotify lossy music?....must say it seems rather incongruous ....i have a spotify account i use on my computer when i quickly want to hear an album before buying and i  listen through the laptop speakers so the MP3 doesnt matter to  me but serious listening with my Phi's.....not a chance



I can't tell the difference luckily.


----------



## jlbrach (Jan 31, 2018)

really?Yet you can tell the difference between the LCD-4 and Abyss Phi?....not trying to be nasty but people poke fun at audiophiles for spending tons of money on equipment to hear minute nuances yet you spent 4K on various HP's and listen to MP3 because you cannot tell the difference between lossy and lossless.....oh boy


----------



## Xecuter

jlbrach said:


> damn,spending all that money and listening to spotify lossy music?....must say it seems rather incongruous ....i have a spotify account i use on my computer when i quickly want to hear an album before buying and i  listen through the laptop speakers so the MP3 doesnt matter to  me but serious listening with my Phi's.....not a chance



Not using a cd-t to bipass crappy pc audio. not a chance.


----------



## ufospls2

jlbrach said:


> really?Yet you can tell the difference between the LCD-4 and Abyss Phi?....not trying to be nasty but people poke fun at audiophiles for spending tons of money on equipment to hear minute nuances yet you spent 4K on various HP's and listen to MP3 because you cannot tell the difference between lossy and lossless.....oh boy



There is a much bigger difference between the LCD-4 and Abyss Phi vs. 320kbps mp3 and FLAC.


----------



## jlbrach (Jan 31, 2018)

not a chance....both the HP's are top notch and there are certainly differences but they both play in the major leagues.....MP3 vs  FLAC is not a subjective judgment....LCD-4 vs Abyss is like mercedes vs BMW while MP3 vs FLAC is like standard TV vs HD 4K.....


----------



## ufospls2 (Jan 31, 2018)

jlbrach said:


> not a chance....both the HP's are top notch and there are certainly differences but they both play in the major leagues.....MP# vs  FLAC is not a subjective judgment....LCD_3 vs Abyss is like mercedes vs BMW while MP3 vs FLAC is like standard TV vs HD 4K.....



I don't want to get into a pointless audio debate because this is the Abyss thread but you are wrong. The difference between the LCD-4 and Abyss Phi (and any headphone) is real and tangible. Different technologies being used, different measurements. Is there a difference between 320kbps mp3 and FLAC, sure, but it is very small and generally only audible in tracks you know well doing direct A/B comparisons, and only in the treble at that. 128kbps and below mp3 is a different story, but 320kbps and up and the difference is negligible.


----------



## jlbrach (Jan 31, 2018)

I think you misunderstand my point....what i am trying to say is if one is buying either the LCD-4 or the  Abyss  he is buying the absolute best most discerning HP's available....MP3 is not the most discerning musical presentation....seems to me if one is going to spend 4K or more on HP's MP3  seems kind of silly......kind of like buying 50K loudspeakers and using a radio shack tape deck with it


----------



## mulder01

I think there are a number of ways to blind test yourself with 320k mp3s vs. lossless and fairly sure nobody gets 100% 

But most importantly, who cares.


----------



## draytonklammer (Jan 31, 2018)

jlbrach said:


> really?Yet you can tell the difference between the LCD-4 and Abyss Phi?....not trying to be nasty but people poke fun at audiophiles for spending tons of money on equipment to hear minute nuances yet you spent 4K on various HP's and listen to MP3 because you cannot tell the difference between lossy and lossless.....oh boy



I don't want to be nasty either, but that was a gross extension of not being able to distinguish file format/bitrate. \
Headphone signatures are A LOT more noticeable than 320Kbps versus a lossless FLAC.

I spent 15k on my setup so that I can enjoy the music through a sound signature (the Abyss Phi) I enjoy.
Although I am not huge about DACs/Amps, I decided to get some fancy ones in-case it does add an extra percent, which I found a bit more noticeable than file format/size/compression.

That being said, how many studies can you show me where participants' data significantly proves a hypothesis of telling apart files?
Last time I checked most of them weren't even close, otherwise were based on pure guess percentages.

Thanks for your feedback as to HOW I listen to music, but I enjoy the library and way Spotify organizes things, and will not give it up for a file difference.
I also enjoy loading the music instantly. Last time I tried Tidal or download 1GB Led Zeppelin files, that took a lot longer than on demand for no discernible difference in quality to my ears, or statistically speaking.

Regardless of how you view this, I am not mad, nor do I refute what you have to say.
Your original comparison is apples to oranges though.

I can understand people who feel there is a difference in a cable or file (even if small to them, or a presence) but that doesn't mean you need to push your juice on me.


----------



## Blitzula

jlbrach said:


> ...you cannot tell the difference between lossy and lossless.....



I think if you're at 320K, most people won't be able to tell the difference consistently between that and lossless. Lower rates you can hear though...


----------



## up late

jlbrach said:


> not a chance....both the HP's are top notch and there are certainly differences but they both play in the major leagues.....MP3 vs  FLAC is not a subjective judgment....LCD-4 vs Abyss is like mercedes vs BMW while MP3 vs FLAC is like standard TV vs HD 4K.....


people poke fun at audiophiles because of posts like this ^


----------



## matthewhypolite

jlbrach said:


> damn,spending all that money and listening to spotify lossy music?....must say it seems rather incongruous ....i have a spotify account i use on my computer when i quickly want to hear an album before buying and i  listen through the laptop speakers so the MP3 doesnt matter to  me but serious listening with my Phi's.....not a chance



I use tidal myself.



jlbrach said:


> I think you misunderstand my point....what i am trying to say is if one is buying either the LCD-4 or the  Abyss  he is buying the absolute best most discerning HP's available....MP3 is not the most discerning musical presentation....seems to me if one is going to spend 4K or more on HP's MP3  seems kind of silly......kind of like buying 50K loudspeakers and using a radio shack tape deck with it



I know a few folks have already disagreed with you above, but i 100% agree with your point of view.
If you spend thousands of dollars on a 4K HDR TV with Atmos sound system, and decide to buy normal bluray discs instead of ultra hd. and say you cant tell the difference....i really dont see the point in that.
Even if you think there is no difference between mp3 and lossless, or you think you cant perceive a difference, spending thousands of dollars on gear, my question is, why not just lossless? Compared to the cost of the hardware, a Tidal lossless subscription ain't that much money.

I personally use a mixture of Tidal, and purchases from HDTracks and Qobuzz.
If im going to be listening to a $5500! headphone, i am sure as hell going to get the best audio quality available to listen to.

(p.s. i can easily tell the difference between 320k mp3 and lossless, but that's just my ears, your millage will vary, but, that's beside the point i'm trying to make above)


----------



## Blitzula

matthewhypolite said:


> (p.s. i can easily tell the difference between 320k mp3 and lossless, but that's just my ears, your millage will vary, but, that's beside the point i'm trying to make above)



Try this and report back...it's pretty fun.

https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality


----------



## jlbrach (Jan 31, 2018)

draytonklammer said:


> I don't want to be nasty either, but that was a gross extension of not being able to distinguish file format/bitrate. \
> Headphone signatures are A LOT more noticeable than 320Kbps versus a lossless FLAC.
> 
> I spent 15k on my setup so that I can enjoy the music through a sound signature (the Abyss Phi) I enjoy.
> ...



so let me see if i understand this....you spent almost 6K on the Abyss with the cost of the upgrade...you owned the LCD-4 and the Utopia...I believe I remember you saving up to buy the  Dave and you describe spending 15K on equipment yet you listen to it all through spotify MP3?.....I usually do not belabor a point but I am simply trying to figure out why somebody would spend  all that  time and money to acquire  the finest playback equipment in the market...buy and sell various  HP's....read through reviews and study up   about the finest  equipment and spend  a  lot of time here on audio forums and then save 100 dollars a year listening to MP3 rather than lossless files?
I will be going to the Headphone and portable show here in NYC in a couple of weeks  where they will show off all of the finest most expensive gear,do you think any manufacturer would possibly use MP3 ?...I recently went to a high Fi show where they showed up the most expensive speaker systems?Do you think anybody was using MP3?.....Of course you are entitled to listen to what you want but since you are on here  all the time debating the merits of the highest quality HP's and Dacs etc and since you have gone from one high end HP to another, I assume because you thought one  was better than another, I am just mystified as  to  why you are arguing in favor of MP3...yes 320 is good enough for most people who listen through earbuds or run of the mill setups and equipment but you are listening through the most expensive and best reviewed equipment..the cream of the crop for audiophiles!If you or anyone else cannot hear the dramatic  difference between  MP3 and FLAC or HI-REZ with the  equipment you own then i dare say that  equipment and all the money and time spent is wasted..as audiophiles everything we  do is to improve on the margins,we search for that last 1% improvement,we pay tons of money  for the kind of differences most people wouldn't possibly care about or appreciate.....your equipment and expenditure puts you in that category....that is why I am perpleaxed....now I move on....god  bless and enjoy what you want!


----------



## jscmd2000

Well, even mp3 files lower than 320k do sound better with the Dave and Phi, lol.


----------



## jlbrach

MP3 sounds better through a 300 dollar pair of HP's and a mojo than they do earbuds  and an iphone as well........here we have people debating the merits of using ferrites  on their cables for the Blu2 but have people using MP3 instead of lossless?...surreal


----------



## Blitzula

jlbrach said:


> ........here we have people debating the merits of using ferrites  on their cables for the Blu2 but have people using MP3 instead of lossless?...surreal



Did you try the NPR test?


----------



## matthewhypolite

jscmd2000 said:


> Well, even mp3 files lower than 320k do sound better with the Dave and Phi, lol.



I actually disagree with this, im not familiar with the dave, but the abyss makes lesser quality recording sound worse. Because it highlights just how bad it is, and does not mask the flaws like other headphones may (HEK, HD650, comes to mind)


----------



## jscmd2000

Is that right?  haha  I was just assuming, but...  I think I get it. I'll have to try!


----------



## matthewhypolite (Jan 31, 2018)

But, like jlbrach, i am perplexed at the need to defend mp3 whiles wearing an abyss on your head. lol.
I ask again, why not just lossless? its not expensive.


----------



## Blitzula

matthewhypolite said:


> But, like jlbrach, i am perplexed at the need to defend mp3 whiles wearing an abyss on your head. lol.
> I ask again, why not just lossless? its not expensive.



Size of the files can be inconvenient and some streaming services aren't lossless...to name a couple of reasons.


----------



## jlbrach (Jan 31, 2018)

This is an audiophile site...people here are very serious about their music...people here own TOTL DAC's and HP's and pay tons of money for the equipment...people here buy ultra expensive cables  for their ultra expensive HP's all of this to extract the last 1%  of sound quality.....people here scout out the very best source recordings of their favorite albums...pay primo prices for SACD and Hi-REZ recordings and now I see a batch of the best recordings being sold for 100 dollars and selling out immediately....I myself use Tidal but have scouted out and bought numerous albums simply because they are better versions of the albums than Tidal caries on their site...I have a hard drive filled with tons of such recordings that i use for my  listening....I find that my Dave/blu2 with my Phi exaggerates bad recordings and makes them literally unlistenable and actually brings out the best of my well mastered recordings......with all this as backdrop and with the cost of listening to FLAC vs MP3 amounting to a fraction of a cable upgrade I simply find myself mystified that this is even a point of contention  here.....i am  not suggesting there isn't a place for MP3  there is.....i use it when walking on a treadmill or on my computer speakers..it is convenient and takes up little room on a hard drive...all true but it doesn't belong on a high end abyss Phi HP with chord Dave Dac and high end cables etc.....if the source is no good it matters little how good your HP's or speakers are or your DAC etc.....


----------



## jlbrach

Blitzula said:


> Size of the files can be inconvenient and some streaming services aren't lossless...to name a couple of reasons.



the difference in cost between spotify and Tidal is 10 dollars a month....if one is spending the money to purchase a Phi along with the update that is 6K...the dave is 10K...the cables etc,an amp possibly...we are talking about a small fortune and you are telling me the cost of listening to FLAC vs MP3 is the issue?Inconvenient?How is Tidal more inconvenient than Spotify?....Size of files?....come on


----------



## Blitzula

Your whole premise is that 320K can be distinguished from lossless. Without that, the other points are irrelevant.


----------



## matthewhypolite (Jan 31, 2018)

The difference in file size between Mp3 and lossless and the accompanying hard drive requirements Is a fraction of the cost of an abyss.  (A 8TB drive on amazon now is $250, lol, and that's a lot  of storage.) And tidal lossless is 10 bucks more.

I agree with everything jlbrach has said.

There are folks that would argue that the $200 HD6xx are all you need, and spending $5500 on an abyss for minor incremental inprovements (which cant be heard by many)  is a waste of money.  (i 100% disagree with these folks btw)  and if one of those folks says to me Mp3 is enough, I'd faster understand. But for an owner of a $5500 headphone to have essentially the same argument....


----------



## jlbrach

Blitzula said:


> Your whole premise is that 320K can be distinguished from lossless. Without that, the other points are irrelevant.



come on,how silly...of course it can be distinguished and if it can't then this site and all of hi end audio is a complete farce and nobody should ever buy an expensive piece of stereo gear....the irony of this whole discussion is that the Lossless vs lossy argument is ONLY relevant  if you are using hi end gear...that is the ONLY time one can discern differences and yet people here are advocating in favor of MP3 with the Abyss Phi and Chord Dave along with amps and thousands of dollars of cables of accessories.....this is actually the situation where the differences are most profound and the rationale for saving 10 bucks a month or conserving space on a hard drive most absurd.....

go on spending tens of thousands of dollars on equipment,hundreds of hours reading up on all the latest and greatest gear...going from one high end product to another in order to squeeze the last 1% out of your music and at the same time use spotify instead  of Tidal or Mp3 instead of Flac on your hard drive.....my goodness


----------



## Blitzula

jlbrach said:


> come on,how silly...of course it can be distinguished and if it can't then this site and all of hi end audio is a complete farce and nobody should ever buy an expensive piece of stereo gear...



Just because hi fi makes _the same source sound better_ doesn't mean two sources _can't sound the same_.


----------



## jlbrach (Jan 31, 2018)

what?....have i stumbled onto another site or is this still head-fi the home to people buying the most expensive stereo gear?study reviews?try to squeeze the last 1% out of our recordings?.....have i stumbled onto another site?...my goodness...if  people HERE are actually trying to argue in favor of MP3 vs lossless then I am speechless and the discussion is moot.....if there are people here who feel it makes sense to spend tens of thousands dollars on the highest end audio products and then listen to MP3 because they save 10 bucks a month or they can get by with smaller hard drives then this isnt the site i thought it was....so be it but i am stunned


----------



## Blitzula

I'm merely saying that most people won't DBT a 320K vs lossless track and be able to tell the difference.

That doesn't mean we can't spend tons of money to hear the track at its best.

Not sure how else to put it.


----------



## Blitzula

...and did you get all six of those NPR tracks right the first listen? If so, that would support your argument.


----------



## jlbrach (Jan 31, 2018)

Blitzula said:


> ...and did you get all six of those NPR tracks right the first listen? If so, that would support your argument.



i did not because i wasnt able to listen through my dave/blu2 and HP's only my computer speakers...that said i have listened to comparisons of MP3 vs both FLAC and HI-REZ on high end speaker  systems  and high end HP's and dacs and the differences were blatant and easy for anybody to hear...again,if this  site now debates whether lossy sounds as good as lossless then we ought to stop pretending there is any point to buying high end equipment....

how can anyone who disputes the differences between lossy and lossless at the same time advocate spending tens of thousands of dollars on high end audio equipment ?....I also remember the same person who says he can't hear the difference between lossy and lossless was looking around for a replacement cable for his abyss Phi's....this whole thing is pretty funny


----------



## matthewhypolite

jlbrach said:


> i did not because i wasnt able to listen through my dave/blu2 and HP's only my computer speakers...that said i have listened to comparisons of MP3 vs both FLAC and HI-REZ on high end speaker  systems  and high end HP's and dacs and the differences were blatant and easy for anybody to hear...again,if this  site now debates whether lossy sounds as good as lossless then we ought to stop pretending there is any point to buying high end equipment....
> 
> how can anyone who disputes the differences between lossy and lossless at the same time advocate spending tens of thousands of dollars on high end audio equipment ?....I also remember the same person who says he can't hear the difference between lossy and lossless was looking around for a replacement cable for his abyss Phi's....this whole thing is pretty funny



Agreed.

And i too have listened to many comparison (blind tested) between mp3, lossless, and even tidal, on my Abyss. the differences were obvious to my ears.
but like jlbrach said, "how can anyone who disputes the differences between lossy and lossless at the same time advocate spending tens of thousands of dollars on high end audio equipment"


----------



## draytonklammer

Anyone want a bite of my popcorn?


----------



## Blitzula

matthewhypolite said:


> Agreed.
> 
> And i too have listened to many comparison (blind tested) between mp3, lossless, and even tidal, on my Abyss. the differences were obvious to my ears.
> but like jlbrach said, "how can anyone who disputes the differences between lossy and lossless at the same time advocate spending tens of thousands of dollars on high end audio equipment"



Were you listening to 320K MP3? Definitely below that I can hear the difference. What was your success percentage?


----------



## draytonklammer (Jan 31, 2018)

Just had my fiance help blind test me since around the time of your first message towards me with both my Martin Logans and Abyss Phi.
I used ~3300kbps FLAC files (about 65-75Mb a piece) of Bob Marley, Led Zeppelin, and Daft Punk to test.

Volume was matched using a SPL meter (as close as I could) between the tracks on headphone + speakers.
Headphone approximate level and speaker level were attempted, but that is much more difficult.

My percentage could be concluded as random from Spotify versus my FLAC library. The only differences I COULD tell were actual differences in the master, but that has nothing to do with this variable.

I'll stick to my Spotify playlists, thanks for your thoughts though jibrach, but I can't tell a strong difference.
I'm glad you can hear a difference and get that theoretical % extra, but I am happy regardless of what files I listen to. My internet is more than fast enough (tested) to never drop below 320kbps if it's available on the track.

Now, I can easily tell between ~128-190 or lower and 320, but that's a different story.


----------



## Blitzula

draytonklammer said:


> Just had my fiance help blind test me since around the time of your first message towards me with both my Martin Logans and Abyss Phi.
> I used ~3300kbps FLAC files (about 65-75Mb a piece) of Bob Marley, Led Zeppelin, and Daft Punk to test.
> 
> Volume was matched using a SPL meter (as close as I could) between the tracks on headphone + speakers.
> ...



That's been exactly my experience as well.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Well, to each his own.

As for me, its not even a consideration, my preference is locally stored music via Jriver, with tidal as a backup. (still need to test the new roon update).
Insignificant cost compared to the rest of my rig. Something i dont have to wonder about. I know 100% i'm listening to the best audio quality i can get my hands on.


----------



## Blitzula

matthewhypolite said:


> Well, to each his own.
> 
> As for me, its not even a consideration, my preference is locally stored music via Jriver, with tidal as a backup. (still need to test the new roon update).
> Insignificant cost compared to the rest of my rig. Something i dont have to wonder about. I know 100% i'm listening to the best audio quality i can get my hands on.



Yeah, that's a good point.

When I was burning my cd collection 10+ years ago, space was much more of an issue and I couldn't fit it all on my hard drive in lossless. I spent a lot of hours confirming where the differences were to my ears before deciding that 320K was fine. I'd do lossless today though, better safe than sorry and can't hurt.


----------



## up late

returning to the start of this debate - the difference between headphone sound signatures is apparent to me regardless of whether i'm listening to totl, mid-fi or budget cans. the difference between 256kbps and lossless recordings is not.


----------



## jlbrach (Jan 31, 2018)

the difference between HP's is purely subjective....abyss vs lcd-4 is a subjective choice between 2 differently tuned HP's and your preference is your own....the difference between MP3 and lossless be it Flac or Hi Rez  etc is  objective....nothing to argue about....MP3 is a smaller file because a portion of the music is missing.....i am perfectly willing to accept that tons of people  can't hear or dont care about the differences either because they simply do not care or because their equipment simply isnt capable of discerning the differences.What makes  this discussion so frustrating for me and the reason I have pursued it is that people here and ESPECIALLY those people spend tens of thousands of dollars on  equipment and should be the very people most concerned about using the  highest level  sources!I find  it weird that a person who is an audiophile and spends so much time and money would settle for MP3 given that the cost of higher bit rate is negligible and they have already spent so much money on their equipment.

We have Flac,we have SACD,We have DSD,we now have MQA etc.....perhaps we should inform everyone involved with these sources that mere MP3 is just as good?.....I am perfectly  able to accept that my 84 year old dad wouldn't discern the difference between the various sources mostly because he couldn't care less and wouldn't have the patience and I know my 28 year old son who listens to all of his music through  ear buds  or his computer most likely couldnt hear the difference mostly  because he too doesn't care.....we on the other hand are audiophiles,we  are deemed crazy by others because we strive to find the finest gear and squeeze every last drop out of recordings....we scour the net searching for the best masterings...the hard to find recording that sound a bit better...we buy ferrites for the cables between our dave and blu2....we spend crazy money on cables  to replace the cables that come with our obscenely priced HP's...we buy the finest  amps to pair with it.......and yet,we have a raging discussion here debating the merits of MP3 v Lossless sources while using the equipment i described?......seriously?


----------



## matthewhypolite

Blitzula said:


> Yeah, that's a good point.
> 
> When I was burning my cd collection 10+ years ago, space was much more of an issue and I couldn't fit it all on my hard drive in lossless. I spent a lot of hours confirming where the differences were to my ears before deciding that 320K was fine. I'd do lossless today though, better safe than sorry and can't hurt.



Exactly, back in the day when storage was an issue, ok, that's an argument to be made, but today? storage is extremely cheap, especially when compared to the level of gear we're speaking about. We are not discussing a 50$ headphone, and saying, mp3, we are discussing a 5000$+ headphone here. What's some cheap storage compared to that? and why even wonder. Just use the highest material available. Spending thousands of dollars on audio gear, to listen to mp3 just does not compute. 

And again like jlbach said, there is a scientific difference between the 2. A difference higher levels of gear is able to extract. Good point on the Flac, SACD, DSD and MQA lol. The folks behind that stuff should just give up, chasing fairy-tails of superior audio quality.

And jlbach, not all folks your son's age listen to airbuds , im 33.


----------



## jlbrach

my son loves music and sees my gear but couldn't care less...he has a pair of bose earbuds and his iphone oor laptop and he is good...no matter how hard i try to convince him to listen to  higher end gear he simply doesn't care nor do his buddies...bravo to you though!


----------



## matthewhypolite

jlbrach said:


> my son loves music and sees my gear but couldn't care less...he has a pair of bose earbuds and his iphone oor laptop and he is good...no matter how hard i try to convince him to listen to  higher end gear he simply doesn't care nor do his buddies...bravo to you though!



And he's still allowed to live at home? ....you must love him ALOT!


----------



## jlbrach

i do love him a lot but  luckily he  moved to his own place about 5 yrs ago!


----------



## draytonklammer

matthewhypolite said:


> Well, to each his own.
> 
> As for me, its not even a consideration, my preference is locally stored music via Jriver, with tidal as a backup. (still need to test the new roon update).
> Insignificant cost compared to the rest of my rig. Something i dont have to wonder about. I know 100% i'm listening to the best audio quality i can get my hands on.



I'm glad you can get that extra satisfaction from it.


up late said:


> returning to the start of this debate - the difference between headphone sound signatures is apparent to me regardless of whether i'm listening to totl, mid-fi or budget cans. the difference between 256kbps and lossless recordings is not.



Once of the few times I agree with you, lol.


----------



## up late (Jan 31, 2018)

jlbrach said:


> the difference between HP's is purely subjective....abyss vs lcd-4 is a subjective choice between 2 differently tuned HP's and your preference is your own....the difference between MP3 and lossless be it Flac or Hi Rez  etc is  objective....nothing to argue about....MP3 is a smaller file because a portion of the music is missing.....i am perfectly willing to accept that tons of people  can't hear or dont care about the differences either because they simply do not care or because their equipment simply isnt capable of discerning the differences.What makes  this discussion so frustrating for me and the reason I have pursued it is that people here and ESPECIALLY those people spend tens of thousands of dollars on  equipment and should be the very people most concerned about using the  highest level  sources!I find  it weird that a person who is an audiophile and spends so much time and money would settle for MP3 given that the cost of higher bit rate is negligible and they have already spent so much money on their equipment.
> 
> We have Flac,we have SACD,We have DSD,we now have MQA etc.....perhaps we should inform everyone involved with these sources that mere MP3 is just as good?.....I am perfectly  able to accept that my 84 year old dad wouldn't discern the difference between the various sources mostly because he couldn't care less and wouldn't have the patience and I know my 28 year old son who listens to all of his music through  ear buds  or his computer most likely couldnt hear the difference mostly  because he too doesn't care.....we on the other hand are audiophiles,we  are deemed crazy by others because we strive to find the finest gear and squeeze every last drop out of recordings....we scour the net searching for the best masterings...the hard to find recording that sound a bit better...we buy ferrites for the cables between our dave and blu2....we spend crazy money on cables  to replace the cables that come with our obscenely priced HP's...we buy the finest  amps to pair with it.......and yet,we have a raging discussion here debating the merits of MP3 v Lossless sources while using the equipment i described?......seriously?


the differences between how headphones reproduce sound are both perceptible (subjective) and measurable (objective). the differences between bitrates are objective but may not be perceived (subjective). if a listener cannot perceive a noticeable difference between a 256kbps and a lossless recording, then it's common sense for that listener to not bother with lossless recordings imo.


----------



## jlbrach

I would suggest those unwilling to make the effort to listen to lossless sources be they FLAC or SACD or DSD etc should not be spending tens of thousands of dollars on the very equipment meant to listen to this music....if one  isn't willing to spend 10 dollars a month or buy a larger hard drive then that person isn't serious about the process and definitely should not be buying the Phi's or the Chord dave etc...there is a dramatic disconnect here


----------



## up late (Jan 31, 2018)

well that's your opinion and restating it isn't going to make it any more valid than the other differing opinions that have been expressed here. i think it's obvious that an unwillingness to pay for a lossless streaming service is not the issue.


----------



## draytonklammer

jlbrach said:


> I would suggest those unwilling to make the effort to listen to lossless sources be they FLAC or SACD or DSD etc should not be spending tens of thousands of dollars on the very equipment meant to listen to this music....if one  isn't willing to spend 10 dollars a month or buy a larger hard drive then that person isn't serious about the process and definitely should not be buying the Phi's or the Chord dave etc...there is a dramatic disconnect here



You're hilarious, really. Why don't you own a Sennheiser Orpheus? Clearly if one is willing to spend money to store FLACs they obviously need to have the most expensive headphones to hear the difference!


----------



## ascantor

I must say that while I agree that it seems counterintuitive to own high gear and listen to mp3 quality music, to each their own. It's not my place to judge.


----------



## jlbrach (Jan 31, 2018)

I do not even understand what you are saying or talking about?...i said if a person was ready to spend tens of thousands of dollars for the very best  playback equipment and DAC/Amps and cables etc and spend  as much time as you do on the process I can not conceive of using MP3 as the source.....it costs you 10 dollars a month to access  Tidal instead of spotify so it cannot possibly be a money issue and it is a minimal cost to purchase a larger hard drive if you keep files like that.....I do not need to own an Orpheus to consider myself a serious audiophile and want to hear the best possible sources,especially since the cost is  minimal....again there is  an enormous disconnect here...you have gone from high end HP to high end HP,I know because i think I bought my LCD-4 from you some time ago.....you have debated and i believe traded up to the Chord Dave ,you have bought expensive high end cables all on the assumption I assume that you will improve  fidelity and hear more of the  music YET you listen  to MP3 and defensively argue about it...you are free to  listen to a  tin can and string with your equipment if you so please but it doesnt change the fact that  to primarily listen to MP3  with the equipment you have spent  tons of money on is a complete disconnect...listening to FLAC costs me 10 bucks a month extra,your purchases totaled tens of thousands of dollars


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## draytonklammer

Maybe if you post it ten more times I'll change my mind.


----------



## jlbrach

ascantor said:


> I must say that while I agree that it seems counterintuitive to own high gear and listen to mp3 quality music, to each their own. It's not my place to judge.



i do not make a moral judgment he can do whatever he wants....I guess what so frustrates me here is that so many people who are not into high end audio mock and make fun of those of us who are and who work so hard to improve the fidelity of the music we love to listen to and here i come across a scenario which almost makes the point of those who mock and doubt....a person spending a small fortune on equipment and actively arguing in favor of listening to it with MP3....I can see all  those who mock audiophiles shaking their heads and saying ...you see!


----------



## up late

as someone posted earlier - "who cares?"


----------



## matthewhypolite

draytonklammer said:


> You're hilarious, really. Why don't you own a Sennheiser Orpheus? Clearly if one is willing to spend money to store FLACs they obviously need to have the most expensive headphones to hear the difference!



That's not what he is saying, he isnt saying buy the most expensive headphones to listen to flac, he is saying, if you've already purchases really expensive headphones you should!.
It would be extremely foolish to purchase a 55k$ Orpheus, then go listen to spotify through them, rofl. Same applies to Phi imo.



up late said:


> as someone posted earlier - "who cares?"



We all should , shouldn't we? That's why this wonderful hobby of ours exists.


----------



## up late (Jan 31, 2018)

i care about the hobby, i couldn't care less about what others think of it. and i wouldn't attempt to defend it with a straight face.


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## matthewhypolite

up late said:


> i care about the hobby, i couldn't care less about what others think of it. and i wouldn't attempt to defend it with a straight face.



Then why are you here on headfi reading what everyone else thinks?



I digress.


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## jlbrach (Jan 31, 2018)

I am going to end my participation in this subject by simply saying this.....if one had simply asked the question to the members of this  community who are in possession of high end expensive as to whether they listen to MP3 with it or lossless files my guess is the answer would have been 99% listen to lossless.....somehow this morphed into a debate about something blatantly obvious...I am sorry  if i am at fault for extending it....if the gentleman wants to spend 20 grand on his equipment and listen to MP3 with it who i am to suggest otherwise?FWIIW if the argument had been Hi Rez vs Flac i wouldn't have ridiculed it or suggested it to be foolish.......that is a different argument and a good one to have


----------



## up late (Jan 31, 2018)

matthewhypolite said:


> Then why are you here on headfi reading what everyone else thinks?
> 
> 
> 
> I digress.


to clarify, i am involved in this hobby which includes participating in this forum. i don't care what others who are not involved in this hobby think of it, nor do I feel compelled to defend it to them because i understand why they would regard it as ridiculous. does that make sense?


----------



## up late

jlbrach said:


> I am going to end my participation in this subject by simply saying this.....if one had simply asked the question to the members of this  community who are in possession of high end expensive as to whether they listen to MP3 with it or lossless files my guess is the answer would have been 99% listen to lossless.....somehow this morphed into a debate about something blatantly obvious...I am sorry  if i am at fault for extending it....if the gentleman wants to spend 20 grand on his equipment and listen to MP3 with it who i am to suggest otherwise?FWIIW if the argument had been Hi Rez vs Flac i wouldn't have ridiculed it or suggested it to be foolish.......that is a different argument and a good one to have



this is both disingenuous and an example of audio snobbery that does this hobby no credit imo


----------



## draytonklammer

up late said:


> this is both disingenuous and an example of audio snobbery that does this hobby no credit imo



Couldn't have said it better.


----------



## matthewhypolite

up late said:


> to clarify, i am involved in this hobby which includes participating in this forum. i don't care what others who are not involved in this hobby think of it, nor do I feel compelled to defend it to them because i understand why they would regard it as ridiculous. does that make sense?



Yes this makes sense.


----------



## up late

i'm relieved


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## jlbrach (Jan 31, 2018)

snobbery?my god it is snobbery to speak of MP3 with 20K worth of gear....snobbery?....the snobbery might well be telling people to spend 20K on equipment not an extra 10 bucks to listen to lossless files....amazing,people are actually actively arguing in favor of MP3 with tens of thousands of dollars of equipment...buy a ferrari if you want to drive to the supermarket and back but dont be surprised if people ask why?....i am not and will never suggest MP3 does not have a place or speak ill of somebody for listening to MP3 in the car or on the treadmill etc but with a chord dave and abyss Phi?....my fault for reading the follow ups i guess


----------



## Joe Skubinski

These are my favorite sources. You haven't lived until you've heard a studio master tape or copy played from a well maintained reel to reel, pure analog! 

In trade shows gone by my buddy Bruce from Puget Sound Studios would bring one of these to play in our room. No audiphile is exempt from the emotional grab of analog masters.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Joe Skubinski said:


> These are my favorite sources. You haven't lived until you've heard a studio master tape or copy played from a well maintained reel to reel, pure analog!
> 
> In trade shows gone by my buddy Bruce from Puget Sound Studios would bring one of these to play in our room. No audiphile is exempt from the emotional grab of analog masters.


----------



## up late (Feb 1, 2018)

jlbrach said:


> snobbery?my god it is snobbery to speak of MP3 with 20K worth of gear....snobbery?....the snobbery might well be telling people to spend 20K on equipment not an extra 10 bucks to listen to lossless files....amazing,people are actually actively arguing in favor of MP3 with tens of thousands of dollars of equipment...buy a ferrari if you want to drive to the supermarket and back but dont be surprised if people ask why?....i am not and will never suggest MP3 does not have a place or speak ill of somebody for listening to MP3 in the car or on the treadmill etc but with a chord dave and abyss Phi?....my fault for reading the follow ups i guess


please stop misrepresenting the positions of those who do not share your particular point of view. no one is "actively arguing" that mp3 is better than lossless, nor are they "actively arguing" for mp3 streaming services on the basis of cost. they are just not dismissing mp3 as a viable alternative to lossless like you are. honestly, this kind of audiophile dogma can border on the religious at times.

the audiophile in me dictates that i use lossless music files. the rational part of me acknowledges that i may struggle to discern an audible difference between 256kbps and lossless. the audiophile in me would attribute that to the quality of my "signal chain". the rational part of me would point out that i am not a bat.


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## phase0 (Feb 1, 2018)

Joe Skubinski said:


> These are my favorite sources. You haven't lived until you've heard a studio master tape or copy played from a well maintained reel to reel, pure analog!
> 
> In trade shows gone by my buddy Bruce from Puget Sound Studios would bring one of these to play in our room. No audiphile is exempt from the emotional grab of analog masters.



The Sonoma Acoustics room at RMAF had a nice reel to reel machine. I had a chance to sit and listen to a couple tracks. I was pretty meh on Sonoma until I heard the R2R system and wow! That blew me away. That was the first time and who knows if I'll ever have the chance again but I would highly recommend seek this out and try it. That was one of the best moments at RMAF last year for me (as well as being able to switch to the Abyss).

I spend a lot of time at the computer and via friends and various chat/IM/blog/etc systems and I get tons of music links that aren't lossless via youtube or soundcloud, mixcloud, etc. I prefer lossless where ever possible. One way I was trying to prove it to myself is to listen to a YT stream of a song I have lossless and then re-listen to the lossless copy. It's like it wakes up and can breath, has life again. Sometimes I almost think having good equipment is a curse because nobody else does and the state of things out there is what everyone accepts and exchanges. It's a little bit isolating to be a FLAC snob but I do agree with the folks who would say after spending so much on gear it would seem to reason that you would want the best quality recordings possible. That said I still end up watching YT links and I don't feel bad about it. If I like it I try to find it lossless.

The main this is you enjoy your music and your gear. If it's comfortable and moves you, does something meaningful for you then that's what matters.

Edit: In the spirit of sharing music... I've been on a Delerium kick... 
- Delerium - Ray (Feat Kristy Thirsk)
- Delerium - Stopwatch Hearts (Feat Emily Haines)


----------



## PetarCV

Why do some people have an urge to totally dismiss lossy audio and portray the difference between lossless and lossy as so big and dramatic?
The reality is that highest quality lossy and flac aren't that different at all and that a lot of us can't even detect the difference. So what's the point of pretending that it's a huge difference?
According to flac warriors, one is not supposed to enjoy a high-end headphone if the source is not lossless? That's a pretentious attitude. I don't think that in a scenario where you only had lossy audio, you'd just stop using your TOTL headphone and switch to listening through laptop speakers and 100$ headphones.


----------



## matthewhypolite

PetarCV said:


> Why do some people have an urge to totally dismiss lossy audio and portray the difference between lossless and lossy as so big and dramatic?
> The reality is that highest quality lossy and flac aren't that different at all and that a lot of us can't even detect the difference. So what's the point of pretending that it's a huge difference?
> According to flac warriors, one is not supposed to enjoy a high-end headphone if the source is not lossless? That's a pretentious attitude. I don't think that in a scenario where you only had lossy audio, you'd just stop using your TOTL headphone and switch to listening through laptop speakers and 100$ headphones.



Hey,

I dont think anyone has urged to totally dismiss lossy audio. MP3 was invented in the 1980s, and it was done so to solve a specific issue in the world, i.e. bandwidth and storage premiums. Almost 4 decades later, does MP3 still have it's uses? sure. But the great need for it is a thing of the past, we now live in an age where storage is cheap, internet is cheap (comparatively to the 80s), and lossless audio is readily available to all. Are there still scenarios in which mp3 would be preferable, of course. All we're saying is, that if you're spending thousands of dollars on equipment, to extract every minute detail from your source material, then why mp3? If i were to estimate the total cost of my headphone hifi rig, id say its anywhere between $18-22K. Why on earth would i spend that kind of money on headphones/dacs/amps/cables/etc and not spend a mere 100 bucks a year to have access to the best quality source material?

If i could easily have access to analog audio, i'd very much do that as well. The rig Joe posted above is delicious, and i'd love to hear that some day, let alone own it! hell yea. But luckily lossless audio is no longer prohibitive, and not something i even have to debate with myself. Do i have the storage? yes. Do i have the internet speed? yes. Can i afford it? yes. Is it worth it? doesn't matter, its 100 bucks, why not, i've spent 20 times more on a headphone cable.

And eventually, Apple, Google, Amazon, and Spotify, will offer lossless options. We'll live in a world, where everything is lossless, and this discussion wouldn't even matter anymore.

In closing, you've upgraded to the Abyss Phi? Treat it well, feed it some lossless audio and enjoy the marvelous resolving capabilities of this amazing headphone.


----------



## jlbrach

PetarCV said:


> Why do some people have an urge to totally dismiss lossy audio and portray the difference between lossless and lossy as so big and dramatic?
> The reality is that highest quality lossy and flac aren't that different at all and that a lot of us can't even detect the difference. So what's the point of pretending that it's a huge difference?
> According to flac warriors, one is not supposed to enjoy a high-end headphone if the source is not lossless? That's a pretentious attitude. I don't think that in a scenario where you only had lossy audio, you'd just stop using your TOTL headphone and switch to listening through laptop speakers and 100$ headphones.



The question is not whether or not MP3 has a place...it does....the question being debated here is why one who has invested a large amount of time and resources to obtain and learn all about the highest priced and  TOTL playback  equipment and then choose to save 10 bucks a month to listen to MP3....the question is even odder given that the same people arguing   that they cannot  hear a difference between Lossless files and MP3 will pay thousands of dollars for new cables for their HP's or interconnects for their DAC/AMP connections or conditioners for USB or fortunes for power cords etc in order to hear that last 1%......it is truly weird.....if you are spending the money and time to obtain the last 1% why would you not use the highest quality files to listen to?


----------



## PetarCV

What you guys are saying is that the only place for lossy audio is to be played on laptop speakers and cheap headphones, which I don't agree with.
Does it make sense that one who spends a lot on cables and other gear should also invest in lossless audio? It sure does. But what I don't get is why exaggerate the difference between high-quality lossy and lossless? A number of us here agree it's a difference that is hard to discern (if at all). You keep saying that it's pointless to use a high-end headphone if playing lossy, but why would someone who can't notice a difference be obsessed about it?


----------



## AxelCloris

This is not the proper place for a format discussion. Let's please keep to the original topic, the Abyss AB-1266.


----------



## FLTWS (Feb 3, 2018)

Folks,
I've posted my review of the just released Dana Cable "Ultra" substitute headphone cable for my Abyss 1266 Phi here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/danacable-user-feedback.826110/#post-14016006

It is not unflattering to either the Ultra or the stock JPS Labs cable that came with my Phi (and I do really like both for their subtle differences). 

*OK, got it sorted, review is up in Head Gear.*


----------



## jhai

FLTWS said:


> Folks,
> I've posted my review of the just released Dana Cable "Ultra" substitute headphone cable for my Abyss 1266 Phi here:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/danacable-user-feedback.826110/#post-14016006
> ...





FLTWS said:


> Folks,
> I've posted my review of the just released Dana Cable "Ultra" substitute headphone cable for my Abyss 1266 Phi here:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/danacable-user-feedback.826110/#post-14016006
> ...


----------



## Zoomaz

FLTWS said:


> Folks,
> I've posted my review of the just released Dana Cable "Ultra" substitute headphone cable for my Abyss 1266 Phi here:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/danacable-user-feedback.826110/#post-14016006
> ...


Great review, have you used the Lazuli Reference with the Abyss Phi and and if so could you comment on the differences between the Ultra and Reference


----------



## The Piper

Zoomaz said:


> Great review, have you used the Lazuli Reference with the Abyss Phi and and if so could you comment on the differences between the Ultra and Reference


I have owned both and the Ultra is noticeably better than the Reference. It is not a subtle difference and is more than you would normally get going from a dated Reference to a new Reference from the same company. Expensive but the very best I have heard.


----------



## The Piper

The Piper said:


> I have owned both and the Ultra is noticeably better than the Reference. It is not a subtle difference and is more than you would normally get going from a dated Reference to a new Reference from the same company. Expensive but the very best I have heard.





The Piper said:


> I have owned both and the Ultra is noticeably better than the Reference. It is not a subtle difference and is more than you would normally get going from a dated Reference to a new Reference from the same company. Expensive but the very best I have heard.





The Piper said:


> I have owned both and the Ultra is noticeably better than the Reference. It is not a subtle difference and is more than you would normally get going from a dated Reference to a new Reference from the same company. Expensive but the very best I have heard.


 BTW, Both of these fine cables will be available for audition with the PHIs and the new prototype $30,000.00 Headtrip Reference Monoblock amplifiers at the New York Can Jam next weekend. If you are in the area and want to hear thr truly state-of-the-art headphone setup this will be a quite rare opportunity.


----------



## FLTWS

Zoomaz said:


> Great review, have you used the Lazuli Reference with the Abyss Phi and and if so could you comment on the differences between the Ultra and Reference



In the near future.

I made the mistake of commenting in my review that I would find it interesting to compare the Lazuli, Lazuli Reference, and Lazuli Ultra all on the Phi. I failed to heed that old adage to " be careful what you wish for". Vinh e-mailed me to say after an upcoming show (in 2 weeks or so I think) he will ship me one of each to evaluate on the Phi.

By then I hope to already have my personal Ultra for my Phi that I ordered a few days ago, in my possession.


----------



## Rayzilla

Has anyone tried the ifi iTube with the original Abyss?


----------



## Xecuter

Has anyone measure the phi? I wouldn't mind seeing someones results with the minidsp EAR or something DIY. The original Abyss was dismissed by a lot of people because of Tyll's measurements, which I have always thought were some how incorrect.


----------



## jscmd2000

Xecuter said:


> Has anyone measure the phi? I wouldn't mind seeing someones results with the minidsp EAR or something DIY. The original Abyss was dismissed by a lot of people because of Tyll's measurements, which I have always thought were some how incorrect.



I would be interested in seeing one as well.  Anyone?


----------



## ra990 (Feb 6, 2018)

Does anyone know where to get a good deal on the phi in the US? Do they go for anything below retail? Would appreciate a PM.


----------



## draytonklammer

Xecuter said:


> Has anyone measure the phi? I wouldn't mind seeing someones results with the minidsp EAR or something DIY. The original Abyss was dismissed by a lot of people because of Tyll's measurements, which I have always thought were some how incorrect.



Tried to get Tyll to measure my Phi, but didn't get a reply from him. 

Might try messaging him again.


----------



## astrostar59

Xecuter said:


> Has anyone measure the phi? I wouldn't mind seeing someones results with the minidsp EAR or something DIY. The original Abyss was dismissed by a lot of people because of Tyll's measurements, which I have always thought were some how incorrect.



I started ignoring a lot of Tyll's stuff after he changed his mind 180° about the Stax 009, Utopia and others. It was as if he woke up one day and just decided to change things about, wipe out his 'wall of fame' What was the reason for it? I can understand he eventually got further demos in and changed his mind gradually, or other HPs beat those that were on the WOF. But overnight it seemed to change. The Sonoma is a pinnacle of what is possible now? I heard it at Can-Jam and is was very underwhelming. Tyll says even though he has it on his WOF, that is is dynamics limited and weak bass amongst other things. If we had a top speaker with those issues, it would get ridiculed for sure. My view is take that of the WOFD as well.

Also Audeze and others seem to favour a mic setup inside a dummy head and ear canal setup, that can be more aligned to the human ear response. It is so difficult to get a true readout off a HP it seems by any other method and may be misleading to follow such data? Anyway, basically I am saying use your ears. 

_*Sonoma Model One Electrostatic Headphone System ($5,000)*

image: https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/WoF_Photo_SonomaModelOne.jpg
_



_The Sonoma Model One is a delightful listening experience. *It has some distortion problems at high listening levels—especially with big bass drops—and treble response is just a tad too hazy to compete with some reference level headphones on that score*. But the overall balance of performance, especially in terms of tonal neutrality, is terrific. I heard no wonky problems like treble spikiness or midrange suck-outs at all. *I can't think of any other headphone I can say that about.*
Many will complain that $5000 is an outrageous price for headphones...I agree. The Model One is not just a headphone though, it's a very good DAC, correction DSP, and amp. Take your average $4000 headphone: if you don't throw at least another $4000 in amp and DAC at it you're probably wasting money with underperforming very expensive gear. $5000 with the Model One and you've got it all without spending a bunch of time mixing and matching expensive gear to find something just right. On the other hand, that's part of the fun of the hobby and maybe the Model One isn't for you.

Bassheads and people who like to play their music loud need not apply. But if you listen at responsible levels (say 80-85dBspl avg), and are looking for a one-stop, get it and forget it solution for desktop high-res USB listening, this is a must-hear bit of kit.


Read more at https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame-over-ear-open#EHhskjM85QJyz7CD.99_


----------



## mulder01

Occasionally I'll watch a video of Tyll's for entertainment purposes - never sways my opinion on what I should and shouldn't get.  People seem to forget that they're just hearing one man's opinion.


----------



## Xecuter

Tyll said changing the fit on the Abyss didn't really change his measurements. It was basically this that made me stop caring about measurements so much, sure they get you a basic idea, but you really need to hear the transducer for yourself in an optimal system to know if you will enjoy it.
The Sonoma was super average when I auditioned it. Tyll has good ears and is great at explaining what he hears, but his preferences are his own.
Also the Big Sound they did was a total mess. Plenty of the 'reviews' did not line up with online general consensus and doing all those amp and headphone reviews using the vega and moon dacs both of which are fairly bad examples of reference dacs.

@draytonklammer  Jude may be keen to measure them, now that he has his super fancy measuring rig. He might also be interested in redoing the original Abyss, since for me it is the most questionable of all the headphone measurements Tyll did - Jude recently revisited the hd800S to disprove the distortion in the bass. 
I still don't believe the hd800S is as good as the original hd800sdr though! ha


----------



## FLTWS

I spent over a week with the Sonoma in late September 2017 in my home and came to the conclusion that for every plus there was a minus and at what, $5 grand(?), that shouldn't be. Head clamping pressure was much higher than I like. The digital input was clearly superior in sound to the analogue. You have to use their DAC/Amp and cable to avoid the sound of the analogue input. Not a bad thing if you like the overall sound but the bass didn't compare well to even my HD800 (to my ears) let alone my Utopia which has better dynamic shadings as well, (hadn't auditioned / purchased the Phi at that point). The HP cable was like those old whip antenna's on cars, and micro-phonic. I gave up on measurements as an explanation for what I hear and how things compare decades ago, but I guess they may carry some degree of academic interest.


----------



## up late

Xecuter said:


> Tyll said changing the fit on the Abyss didn't really change his measurements. It was basically this that made me stop caring about measurements so much, sure they get you a basic idea, but you really need to hear the transducer for yourself in an optimal system to know if you will enjoy it.
> The Sonoma was super average when I auditioned it. Tyll has good ears and is great at explaining what he hears, but his preferences are his own.
> Also the Big Sound they did was a total mess. Plenty of the 'reviews' did not line up with online general consensus and doing all those amp and headphone reviews using the vega and moon dacs both of which are fairly bad examples of reference dacs.
> 
> ...


i thought that "big sound" was an interesting exercise. to describe it as a "total mess" is harsh imo. what makes the moon and vega "bad examples of reference dacs" in your opinion?


----------



## Xecuter

Vega is a mess of bad filters, it also has basically 0 tonal density, glarey, grainy and generally horrible. The moon is a flat, dull, resolves poorly and sounds like a cheap nos dac to me. They did have a yggy which is a bit more reference. I didn't see that. Of course IMO, YMMV, but you asked 
I think they had some awesome gear, if you know who to listen to and who not to listen to and ignore the wrap there are a few bits of great info hidden in there.


----------



## FLTWS

Another thought on measurements.

Whenever I attend a live concert I make a point of following up the next day with a listen to the best, most realistic sounding (to my ears) recording(s) I have of that same music. I ignore all aspects of sound staging and focus on the tonal quality, inner detailing and recording venues ambience (transient attack / decay characteristics), and dynamic shading of the various instruments in solo or in groups. I did this just 2 weeks ago and my appreciation of what the Phi (along with my other equipment) did with those aspects of the live sound was favorable in the extreme.

Now, if the day after my in-home listening comparison some website were to publish frequency response charts of my HP that looked more like a sine wave than a flat line, and square wave shots that looked more like the top half of a circle than a rectangle, would that change my mind about what I heard the day before, and the day before that, and have me second guessing the quality of my HP and associated equipment?

No!


----------



## jscmd2000

Absolutely not!  For the same reason, I would never purchase a pair of hp that doesn't sound good to my ears no matter how well it measures.

I do remind myself from time to time that this is only a hobby.  It is not anything remotely close to what I do and my family doesn't depend on it.  I know these are not cheap, and we tend to take things seriously and personally when we spend a lot on something. 

This shouldn't be that serious.  The technology is out there to measure hp's so why not?  I am curious to see if it holds true to the fact that not all hp's that measure well will sound good, but most good sounding ones will measure well. Also, I do have some mental image of how it would measure so... I am genuinely curious. I think the Phi will remain one of the best headphones for a while and I am privileged to own one, but if I find something new and better in the future and don't find it worth to keep, then it really is no sweat!

If the Phi doesn't measure well, do you think it will become less popular?  Create a controversy?  Maybe I don't want to know because ignorance is a bliss?  Don't think so.


----------



## simorag

To whom may be interested, I posted some impressions of the Abyss Phi in combination with the Chord DAVE here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-662#post-14025463


----------



## Stereolab42

astrostar59 said:


> I started ignoring a lot of Tyll's stuff after he changed his mind 180° about the Stax 009, Utopia and others. It was as if he woke up one day and just decided to change things about, wipe out his 'wall of fame' What was the reason for it? I can understand he eventually got further demos in and changed his mind gradually, or other HPs beat those that were on the WOF. But overnight it seemed to change. The Sonoma is a pinnacle of what is possible now? I heard it at Can-Jam and is was very underwhelming. Tyll says even though he has it on his WOF, that is is dynamics limited and weak bass amongst other things. If we had a top speaker with those issues, it would get ridiculed for sure. My view is take that of the WOFD as well.​


​
Agree, heard the Sonoma at the SF meet last year and it was just bad. Was just listening to standard rock and it began to distort just at normal listening levels. I was incredulous since I tend to listen at volumes somewhat less than what many people do. Either they brought a bunch of bad units with them or it's only good for soft jazz or classical?


----------



## astrostar59 (Feb 7, 2018)

Stereolab42 said:


> Agree, heard the Sonoma at the SF meet last year and it was just bad. Was just listening to standard rock and it began to distort just at normal listening levels. I was incredulous since I tend to listen at volumes somewhat less than what many people do. Either they brought a bunch of bad units with them or it's only good for soft jazz or classical?



Thanks for that. So my next question is, what is going on with Tyll's WOF? Why delete all the previous 'best' headphones he had up there, right back to that Sonoma and a few other suspects? I don't get it. No way would I put up the Sonoma on a best of wall. I find it hard to put it in any category TBH, unless the client is after lower level easy going background entertainment. If that was the case just buy a 600 USD can, there are tons out there that do it better than the Sonoma IMO.

Dropping the Somoma subject for a second, ALL top HPs I have heard to date do some things great, but other things off the top spot a bit. Only on my impressions on the HE-1 was that different. For the Stax 009s the things it didn't do became a problem for me, and I was at that point going in another direction post Can-Jam 2107 after hearing the LCD4 and the HE-1 on the same afternoon. Thats where my preference is. It took me some years to realise. But we go through this hobby and change our directions. No HP does it all. Saying this I still haven't heard the Abyss, but I will at Munich in May.


----------



## up late (Feb 7, 2018)

Xecuter said:


> Vega is a mess of bad filters, it also has basically 0 tonal density, glarey, grainy and generally horrible. The moon is a flat, dull, resolves poorly and sounds like a cheap nos dac to me. They did have a yggy which is a bit more reference. I didn't see that. Of course IMO, YMMV, but you asked
> I think they had some awesome gear, if you know who to listen to and who not to listen to and ignore the wrap there are a few bits of great info hidden in there.


I've not heard the vega or moon so I'll reserve my judgement until I do. that said, they have both received positive reviews in hi fi publications and from head-fi'ers. i still regard your judgement of the "big sound" exercise as overly critical, but it seems that everyone's a critic these days.


----------



## jlbrach

astrostar59 said:


> Thanks for that. So my next question is, what is going on with Tyll's WOF? Why delete all the previous 'best' headphones he had up there, right back to that Sonoma and a few other suspects? I don't get it. No way would I put up the Sonoma on a best of wall. I find it hard to put it in any category TBH, unless the client is after lower level easy going background entertainment. If that was the case just buy a 600 USD can, there are tons out there that do it better than the Sonoma IMO.
> 
> Dropping the Somoma subject for a second, ALL top HPs I have heard to date do some things great, but other things off the top spot a bit. Only on my impressions on the HE-1 was that different. For the Stax 009s the things it didn't do became a problem for me, and I was at that point going in another direction post Can-Jam 2107 after hearing the LCD4 and the HE-1 on the same afternoon. Thats where my preference is. It took me some years to realise. But we go through this hobby and change our directions. No HP does it all. Saying this I still haven't heard the Abyss, but I will at Munich in May.



quite honestly who cares?


----------



## Blitzula

jlbrach said:


> quite honestly who cares?



He's an influential headphone reviewer...looks like several of us do.


----------



## jlbrach

my point is why let one persons opinion disturb you...the guy is one of many and has created quite a bit of controversy lately with his reviews,changes of opinion and especially his review of the utopia that he first loved and then changed his mond on when he found out he was reviewing a flawed unit....weird to say the least...he had a similar issue with the LCD-4


----------



## Blitzula

Ah, gotcha. It doesn't disturb me but it is interesting to discuss a noted reviewer's change of heart.

Man, he loved the Utopia before and those are a lot of big changes to the WOF all of a sudden.


----------



## astrostar59

Exactly. If we put up a product as leading edge, a great performer, why would that suddenly not be the case? For example, plenty of high end speakers rated years ago are still put up there today as 'greats' Quad ESL57s for example. My view on it is leave those rated HPs as the best at the moment, and wait till they are 'surpassed' by newbies. Otherwise they are still the best, unless the original review was in error. Looks like throwing the dummy out of the pram.


----------



## Xecuter

astrostar59 said:


> Exactly. If we put up a product as leading edge, a great performer, why would that suddenly not be the case? For example, plenty of high end speakers rated years ago are still put up there today as 'greats' Quad ESL57s for example. My view on it is leave those rated HPs as the best at the moment, and wait till they are 'surpassed' by newbies. Otherwise they are still the best, unless the original review was in error. Looks like throwing the dummy out of the pram.



I think hifi headphones is still a fairly new technology, yes headphones have been around for ages. but it wasn't till the hd800 hit the market that people started wanting top tier 2.0 quality at their desk. I think Tyll took a hard look at the wall and realised too much stuff with glaring problems was on the wall and had to do a cull. It's the same with digital technology, I think there is still a lot of development and advancements to come and we will see a lot of 10k+ dacs outperformed by far cheaper dacs in the next few years.


----------



## mulder01

jlbrach said:


> quite honestly who cares?



Hey hold on, you can't argue about something unrelated to the thread for 5 pages then complain when someone else says something unrelated.

Having said that, I do agree that too many people care about his fleeting opinions.  I would love to see a sales graph of the utopia.  I bet I could pick the point at which Tyll said they were the best headphones in the world and when he said they were not that great... I think his opinions unfortunately hold a massive amount of weight with a lot of people.  I bet if he came out tomorrow and said that the Phi was the world's best headphone and put it on his wall, twice as many people would buy one.


----------



## astrostar59

mulder01 said:


> Hey hold on, you can't argue about something unrelated to the thread for 5 pages then complain when someone else says something unrelated.
> 
> Having said that, I do agree that too many people care about his fleeting opinions.  I would love to see a sales graph of the utopia.  I bet I could pick the point at which Tyll said they were the best headphones in the world and when he said they were not that great... I think his opinions unfortunately hold a massive amount of weight with a lot of people.  *I bet if he came out tomorrow and said that the Phi was the world's best headphone and put it on his wall, twice as many people would buy one*.



Hmm, sounds like a cash cow to me...


----------



## jlbrach

mulder01 said:


> Hey hold on, you can't argue about something unrelated to the thread for 5 pages then complain when someone else says something unrelated.
> 
> Having said that, I do agree that too many people care about his fleeting opinions.  I would love to see a sales graph of the utopia.  I bet I could pick the point at which Tyll said they were the best headphones in the world and when he said they were not that great... I think his opinions unfortunately hold a massive amount of weight with a lot of people.  I bet if he came out tomorrow and said that the Phi was the world's best headphone and put it on his wall, twice as many people would buy one.



thus my reason for saying who cares....he has outsized influence given his bizarre behavior recently....personally I try to take the approach of looking at a number of reviewers and seeing a consensus rather than relying on one reviewer...kind of like rotten tomatoes for movies!!!


----------



## matthewhypolite

I have to admit, my purchasing the utopia was influenced by Tyll, but not just tyle jude as well, and all that other positive reviews about it. Him removing it from the wall of fame and not thinking the production version is all that good, does not however influence my opinion of a headphone i've heard for myself. 

I live outside of the U.S., so for folks like me, reading the thoughts and opinions of others in the hobby is very useful, because i dont always have the opportunity to easily demo gear. So i have to rely on the impressions of others, and combine them and weigh them accordingly, taking tastes and history into account, to make the right decision.

It's worked out pretty good so far. 

But once i actually get a product and hear it, and test it for myself, i make up my own mind.

Having said that. The utopia is still very much a great headphone....., i still love it even today......but............after my first A/B between Utopia and Abyss on the WA33 EE, the utopia has not gotten any head time.
I'm 150hrs into my Phi burn in, and man it keeps getting better and better. The detail retrieval and resolution of the phi is absolutely amazing. The OG Abyss was pretty stellar before, but the phi very much takes this up to another level. And it some how does not sound harsh, or throws a ton of detail in your face, it just reveals effortlessly and comfortably, the detail that is there, whiles still preserve the signature of the original abyss.

It's so good. 

I'll have a detailed write up when i've had about a month with it. but man im loving the Phi.


----------



## astrostar59 (Feb 8, 2018)

I try to go to other users houses for demos and testing, and more recently hifi shows such as Can-Jam. In testing away from your own house, I recommend taking a USB stick with say 5 tracks on that you know really well, some great recordings, and one maybe that is a problem. 

It is very difficult to gauge a HP's performance on weird hifi show music choices, or unfamiliar music in general. And I find I have a pretty accurate aural memory on those 5 tracks, and if it sounds better or just different, I will know for sure. 

I darn't listen to the Phi in case it beats my LCD4 Ha Ha....


----------



## jlbrach

astrostar59 said:


> I try to go to other users houses for demos and testing, and more recently hifi shows such as Can-Jam. In testing away from your own house, I recommend taking a USB stick with say 5 tracks on that you know really well, some great recordings, and one maybe that is a problem.
> 
> It is very difficult to gauge a HP's performance on weird hifi show music choices, or unfamiliar music in general. And I find I have a pretty accurate aural memory on those 5 tracks, and if it sounds better or just different, I will know for sure.
> 
> I darn't listen to the Phi in case it beats my LCD4 Ha Ha....



dont worry the LCD-4 is great on its own.....I have both!


----------



## Maxx134 (Feb 8, 2018)

Xecuter said:


> Has anyone measure the phi? I wouldn't mind seeing someones results with the minidsp EAR or something DIY. The original Abyss was dismissed by a lot of people because of Tyll's measurements, which I have always thought were some how incorrect.


I can't believe no measurements are out?



jscmd2000 said:


> I would be interested in seeing one as well.  Anyone?


Ok well I did measure them.



draytonklammer said:


> Tried to get Tyll to measure my Phi, but didn't get a reply from him.
> 
> Might try messaging him again.


There is probably a reason for everything.

Reminds me of how good the HEKV2 was at a time when Utopia was all the rage, so got little positive or no review.

All is money/advertising today.



astrostar59 said:


> The Sonoma is a pinnacle of what is possible now? I heard it at Can-Jam and is was very underwhelming


The issue there is that they did break ground with some great technical advances (small switching PSU one example),
But they bit off more than they can chew for a start up company.
They should not have made the amp proprietary to their headphone.
Oh well,
It true the end result (sound) was nothing much worth mention.
Too many limitations



Xecuter said:


> Tyll said changing the fit on the Abyss didn't really change his measurements.


Was that the Phi?
This is quite incorrect,  when wearing on your head (in the bass region)



Xecuter said:


> The Sonoma was super average when I auditioned it.


It's sad such very, very high tech electronics are wasted on mediocre headphones.



Xecuter said:


> I still don't believe the hd800S is as good as the original hd800sdr though! ha


You don't have to believe that fable.
Remember your ears are the ultimate measurement tool.
Besides I have my own HD800 (modded)  measurements that would beat an 800S.




matthewhypolite said:


> after my first A/B between Utopia and Abyss on the WA33 EE, the utopia has not gotten any head time.


I must agree.
The step up is rather HUGE, considering the Abyss Phi surpassed the Susvara in my listening.

Those are the only two (Phi & Susvara) that can embarrass the Utopia.

(The HD800 has potential to surpass Utopia, but usually does not except for Soundstage.)

The Abyss Phi cannot be reviewed, because it is the absolute best headphone (at least that I have heard).
This would topple the headphone empire Lol.

The sound is authoritive, solid,  with detailed & tonality and realism above the others.
Nothing is lacking.



astrostar59 said:


> I darn't listen to the Phi in case it beats my LCD4 Ha Ha....


I think it would.
If it sounds subjectively  superior (to me) than the other top models,
Odds are not good for LCD4.

Ok here is my unsanctioned DIY measurement:




Not to be taken critically,
As the FR get less accurate beyond 10k..

Yet, at least there's no "dumb ears" in my rig  that cause peaks, ( which have to then be filtered with algorithms and FFT processing)...

Anyways just to sum up.
These are all my (subjective) opinions and your perception may vary.

The point is to enjoy, and the unspoken topic of the gear setup,
 plays a massively huge role in synergy with the headphones.

So if you find a sweet spot with any top headphone,
be cautious upgrading,  as you may end up having to change your gear for your desired preferences.

My bet is that the Abyss Phi efficiency will make it perform exceptional regardless.


----------



## drew911d

I'll be taking my Phi to the Arizona Head-Fi MiniCon tomorrow.  @cskippy is eager to measure them.  I'll be curious anyway, to see if it comes out the same as above.  Not that any measurememt beyond my ears would change my opinion of these great HP's.


----------



## draytonklammer

I wish there was some sort of convention in Montana for this stuff.


----------



## ra990 (Feb 9, 2018)

What's the consensus on the best place to purchase a phi? All the retailers seem to be sticking to the msrp. Woo audio includes a free headphone stand and free shipping. Any tips?

EDIT: Just got in touch with the Cable Company and they had the Phi in their awesome lending library. They're going to ship it to me next week to evaluate in my home for two weeks! How cool is that? I can't wait.


----------



## Blitzula

ra990 said:


> What's the consensus on the best place to purchase a phi? All the retailers seem to be sticking to the msrp. Woo audio includes a free headphone stand and free shipping. Any tips?
> 
> EDIT: Just got in touch with the Cable Company and they had the Phi in their awesome lending library. They're going to ship it to me next week to evaluate in my home for two weeks! How cool is that? I can't wait.



It would be a lot cooler if they didn't charge you 5% of the selling price. Although if you are going to buy something from them regardless, that's a consideration.


----------



## MacedonianHero

ra990 said:


> What's the consensus on the best place to purchase a phi? All the retailers seem to be sticking to the msrp. Woo audio includes a free headphone stand and free shipping. Any tips?
> 
> EDIT: Just got in touch with the Cable Company and they had the Phi in their awesome lending library. They're going to ship it to me next week to evaluate in my home for two weeks! How cool is that? I can't wait.



I got my pair through Woo Audio and dealing with them is always so easy and trouble-free. Jack and the team are great!


----------



## ra990

Blitzula said:


> It would be a lot cooler if they didn't charge you 5% of the selling price. Although if you are going to buy something from them regardless, that's a consideration.


Small price to pay to be able to audition this legend in the comfort of my home for an extended period of time. Plus, yea if I decide to buy, it goes towards the purchase (of anything they sell actually) and that never expires...not a bad deal.


----------



## mulder01

Yeah seems like a pretty fair system to me.  Costs me a few hundred bucks for a plane ticket to visit a store where I can try stuff so if I could spend that same amount of money and have something for 2 weeks in my own home I'd probably go for that...


----------



## baiyy1986

I really like Tyll, he is the mentor who guides me into the real sound world, 
Also, I have my own mentor during my Ph.D. time, he is really like a father to me, in fact, I always think I am so glad when I am 25 I could find such a hard-working person as one of the most improtant in my life.
However, I change my career after staying in his lab about 4 years, he is not sad and he also encourages me to the new world that I never regret. He and his wife came to my house last week, we talked about these old things, they are just good memories.
All I want to say is I think a lot of person like me respect Tyll as a mentor, and as always I will watch every review he has, I will check every measurement he did, but after all, I am the person who really will use the headphone.
Every headphone company made has their own personalities, this is how a company separate to other company, that will show the difference in the graph because that is different, Tyll think TH900 is a "terrible" headphone but that is the personality Fostex give th900, also HD800, Utopia, Abyss, Stax 009, people put so much time to create a masterpiece to listen, not to measure. I would say I rather see more DAC/AMP mature coming than the headphone.
For the headphone, the only thing I need to know is the feature of that headphone, maybe is a warm sound or fast sound or whatever, this is the reason we enjoy different HP.
Tyll is a good mentor but we are the people who decide whether to buy the headphone. So don't care about the wall of fame too much, it is not your WOF.


----------



## mulder01

Do I remember correctly someone asking about the ifi pro ican recently?  
In the newest canjam preview video, Jude mentions that at the last headphone show, the pro ican and phi combo was only bested by the HE1.  High praise indeed for that amp considering it's price (and the phi)


----------



## Thenewguy007

Blitzula said:


> It would be a lot cooler if they didn't charge you 5% of the selling price. Although if you are going to buy something from them regardless, that's a consideration.



So he is shelling out $250+ for borrowing it for a week?


----------



## Blitzula (Feb 11, 2018)

Thenewguy007 said:


> So he is shelling out $250+ for borrowing it for a week?



For two weeks. But you can apply that as a store credit at the site if you don't keep the headphones.

If there aren't other things that interest you, you're out of luck for the time being.

30 days I could possibly see for 5%, but not 14.

The ironic thing is you can buy it and return it at no cost.


----------



## MacedonianHero

^ Personally, after hearing them at TAVES in October...I rushed out and bought my pair a few weeks later.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Blitzula said:


> For two weeks. But you can apply that as a store credit at the site if you don't keep the headphones.
> 
> If there aren't other things that interest you, you're out of luck for the time being.
> 
> ...



Joe offers 30 day returns on his headphones?


----------



## Blitzula

Thenewguy007 said:


> Joe offers 30 day returns on his headphones?



The Cable Company has a 30 day return policy, you can see particulars at their website.


----------



## ra990

Blitzula said:


> The Cable Company has a 30 day return policy, you can see particulars at their website.


I don't want to be that guy though. When they have a program that lets you try it and not feel guilty about returning them if you don't like them, why not use it? If I end up liking them and want to buy, I don't lose any money. I think it's fair. Two weeks is also just enough time for new toy syndrome to wear off and I think by the end of that period I will know for sure if they're for me or not, minus any hype. I will be running them through the ican pro for now.


----------



## Blitzula

I don't think trying something for 30 days to decide if you want to buy it or not makes you "that guy". 

Unless you have no intention of buying and plan on purchasing used.


----------



## AbyssHeadphones (Feb 13, 2018)

Abyss Headphones will be in New York City this coming weekend for CanJam 2018. Please stop by and hear our latest Diana headphones and the infamous AB-1266 Phi on some of our favorite gear, including the Eleven XI Audio Formula S amplifier and the new matching external PowerMan supply.

Eleven Audio uses ABYSS headphones for their R&D and final tuning. This is our favorite solid state amplifier, clarity of the finest solid state with smooth harmonic richness of tubes, and excellent bass resolution.. best sounding solid state we've heard with our Phi.

Look forward to seeing you there... The Abyss Team


----------



## draytonklammer

Currently up to 2,500 words in my Abyss Phi review.


----------



## MacedonianHero

^ Excellent.

I just need to finish up my Audioquest Axios cable review and then I'm jumping on my overdue Abyss Phi review. I just love these headphones!


----------



## The Piper

MacedonianHero said:


> ^ Excellent.
> 
> I just need to finish up my Audioquest Axios cable review and then I'm jumping on my overdue Abyss Phi review. I just love these headphones!




Wells Audio will be demonstrating the new Headtrip Reference monoblocks with the new all tube linestage and Abyss Phi headphones along with the Dana Cables Lazuli Ultra headphone cables at the New York Can Jam in Times Square this weekend. It is truly the "state-of-the-art" headphone system of all time. Stop by if you can make it.


----------



## MacedonianHero

The Piper said:


> Wells Audio will be demonstrating the new Headtrip Reference monoblocks with the new all tube linestage and Abyss Phi headphones along with the Dana Cables Lazuli Ultra headphone cables at the New York Can Jam in Times Square this weekend. It is truly the "state-of-the-art" headphone system of all time. Stop by if you can make it.



The Enigma and Head Trip were fantastic...I can't wait to hear this one! I'll let Frank know to stop by! Sadly I won't be able to make it to NYC's meet this year (I might have to wait for TAVES ).


----------



## zhgutov

Is there any way to know if the Abyss headphones are previous version or Phi? Or maybe they look absolutely similar?
I want to know/check which headphones I listen in the shop, and I am not sure if the guys from the shop know that.


----------



## Xecuter

Take the pads off and you will see if there is a Phi symbol. If not it's OG.


----------



## Xecuter (Feb 15, 2018)

I also saw these measurements on discord:





vs OG





Further. Original Abyss with mods: Yellow mod, blue stock





All credit to @cskippy for phi measurement
credit to purrin for OG Abyss and modded Abyss measurement


----------



## simorag

zhgutov said:


> Is there any way to know if the Abyss headphones are previous version or Phi? Or maybe they look absolutely similar?
> I want to know/check which headphones I listen in the shop, and I am not sure if the guys from the shop know that.



In this post (see last picture) you can see a high-res photo of the headphone frame with pad removed, where the Phi symbol is visible:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-371#post-13492824


----------



## zhgutov

Xecuter said:


> I also saw these measurements on discord:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, that +10 dB hump @ 8 kHz... Is it real?


----------



## Xecuter (Feb 15, 2018)

Yes that peak is real, but it really doesn't translate to a ringing issue or sibilance issues

here is another measurement from the day of the PMx2 v1. Flatter than Keira Knightley


----------



## draytonklammer

My take on the Abyss Phi:

https://tascware.com/thesummit/phi


----------



## jlbrach

deuter said:


> Surely no one listens or has mp3s to play through such refined equipment.
> It's like modding the Abyss to use as Bluetooth Headphones.



shockingly there actually are people who spend tens of thousands of dollars on equipment...will discern differences in cables etc and who will listen to MP3....it kind amuses me


----------



## drew911d

Xecuter said:


> I also saw these measurements on discord:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The top measurement is with my Phi.  Just to note, the green sweep is the left side and it wasn't sealed correctly due to how it was sitting on the box @cskippy made.  The bass was affected by this.  He did take another measurement later getting a better seal and the bass region was much more flat.


----------



## zhgutov

I wonder what modification can minimize the hump @ 8 kHz?


----------



## draytonklammer

zhgutov said:


> I wonder what modification can minimize the hump @ 8 kHz?



I'm curious about the same thing. 
A little bit disappointed by that frequency response.


----------



## Xecuter (Feb 15, 2018)

I've used the mod on the OG and the phi. It didn't work as well on the phi as it did the OG but I didn't really spend any time tuning it.
The mod is just creatology foam ring covered in thin felt  covering the hard baffle.. It works well to reduce some of the planar ringing  (metalic sounds in upper treble).
I didn't like the result on the phi, it was sorta over warmed. However i think the fuzzor mod might still have potential with the phi.

Edit: fuzzor looks something like this: thin foam covered with adhesive felt was best for OG abyss. Brings OG closer to phi but obviously not as good as the driver mod for lower mid resolution.
Bass is better on OG modded than on the phi.



Spoiler: huge photo of modded OG abyss


----------



## cskippy

That's correct.  I show a good  seal on the right side and a broken seal on the left, which some prefer, as depending on placement and head size a perfect seal may not be possible.


----------



## zhgutov (Feb 15, 2018)

Hmm... I expected the resonance somewhere, but 8 kHz is ~40 mm.
The outer ring is larger in diameter.
Can't see anything similar to that except for the distance between the head surface and the driver.
Is it possible that this is caused by the measurement system surface outside the artificial ear, but with the real head everything is fine?

Did anyone played the sweep tone in the headphones on the head?
Does it show the similar dip and peak, or does it sound flat there?

UPD. The question remains open, but I have one more guess.
There are notches in the driver surface through which the sound comes to the ear.
They have different length, from ~30 mm and greater (is it so?).
If you look at the frequency response you can notice three or four dips/peaks.
~13 kHz, ~8 kHz, and two around ~5 kHz.
Can it resonate here? Maybe not with the real head? Maybe in both cases?


----------



## cskippy

My measurements match well to MY ears if I follow along the frequency response I'll hear the same peaks and dips.


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> I'm curious about the same thing.
> A little bit disappointed by that frequency response.



If you love the phi's sound (reviewed it 100/100 for sound quality) then why would you want to change it because of somebody's tests?


----------



## cskippy

Yup, there is a reason there are a bunch of different headphone, speaker, amp, and DAC companies all producing different products...people have different tastes, and that's okay!


----------



## jlbrach

mulder01 said:


> If you love the phi's sound (reviewed it 100/100 for sound quality) then why would you want to change it because of somebody's tests?



more than a little silly....if one feels the sound they hear is 100/100 why in the world would they give a darn what measurements are?


----------



## draytonklammer (Feb 16, 2018)

mulder01 said:


> If you love the phi's sound (reviewed it 100/100 for sound quality) then why would you want to change it because of somebody's tests?



Although I have a following of people who love to misconstrue everything I post about like I am a six year old, my post in no way states that my thoughts have changed in any way due to any measurements. I still believe that for my ears this is the best option I have heard to date.

On top of that, 100/100 is a score I have given until something comes around to take it down a notch. It is a 100/100 out of every headphone I have listened to thus far. Some pictures don't change that. Maybe instead of acting like fools, consider positive criticism to help further my work for the greater good of anyone interested. Tends to be eons more helpful.

I find it curious is all, thanks. Honestly, I expected more from a group that are supposed to be my peers. I know I have taken a fast lane with my purchasing and listening to so many TOTL gear and have often been rash or exhibited new toy syndrome, but I have been pretty set on the Abyss for nearly two years now and the Dave has rightfully taken a position on the top of my DAC list in weeks.

If anyone has anything further, you're welcome to private message me, otherwise luckily this post doubles as a way of explaining my enjoyment of the Abyss + Dave combo regardless of measurements.


----------



## mulder01

I think you've taken that way too personally.  

_In general_ I think people care too much about measurements - I believe they only fuel biases and fool your brain into thinking it hears what the graph shows.  IMO.

I was only questioning your interest in 'fixing' a problem that never existed in your mind until someone measured it:

 

Was a genuine question.  No cause for a hissy fit.


----------



## draytonklammer (Feb 16, 2018)

Yep and I would agree that they are meant as a simple tool at best but do not mean much compared to personal listening. It's okay to be disappointed with something though. In my mind the Abyss is fantastic for my taste regardless of said peak.
That being said, it leaves me curious what the Abyss Phi would sound like if it were a bit more tame there.

Once more, I expect bigger boy phrases than a "hissy fit." Leave the phrases talking down to me in a private message, for the sake of the thread, please.

I would much prefer to continue on the topic of this being one of the better headphones I have tried in my lifetime.

In other news...

"Epilogue" by Justin Hurwitz (for the La La Land musical) is a fantastic piece through the Abyss Phi.
There's never a lack of life from these headphones. Never a dull moment.
Been a slow going night, but as it transitions from slow to quick and on my own mood begins to reflect the pace of the piece itself.

An album I recently "rediscovered" with this combo is the "Rome" album by Danger Mouse and Daniele Luppi with plenty of fantastic features, including Norah Jones, one of my personal favorite female vocals.


----------



## zhgutov

draytonklammer said:


> That being said, it leaves me curious what the Abyss Phi would sound like if it were a bit more tame there.


Well, you can try to remove that hump with the linear phase EQ to hear the difference.



mulder01 said:


> I believe they only fuel biases and fool your brain into thinking it hears what the graph shows.


I found myself sensitive to such humps. This starts to annoy with the time in most cases when the things get louder, but with some exceptions.
For example, K701 have two large humps in the high frequency area. But I can still make them loud. They have bass roll off and sound relatively "lite", but this is another story.
But some other headphones may be different. And I think the difference is caused by something else (maybe this is a phase response, or some ringing, or maybe some combination).
Sometimes the hump can show itself in a bad way with the specific recordings (which may have the same hump, for example). And this can be easily missed in a listening session.
It is possible that the Abyss Phi sound awesome with that peak, but anyway, now I know what to check in a listening session (I have some pop tracks with the emphasized 8 kHz area).


----------



## up late (Feb 16, 2018)

mulder01 said:


> _... In general_ I think people care too much about measurements - I believe they only fuel biases and fool your brain into thinking it hears what the graph shows.  IMO...


and that's an example of a sweeping generalisation which is based on anecdotal evidence at best that may not even be statistically significant, let alone verifiable. it's no more founded in fact than any other personal belief is. while the "imo" caveat is a convenient way to excuse yourself from having to prove your point, it doesn't lend any weight to it either.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Measurements can lie.

Jude covers limitations in measuring headphones...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/a-h...the-ie800s-thread.865189/page-3#post-13851537
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/a-h...the-ie800s-thread.865189/page-3#post-13852279

When it comes to designing headphones, we trust our ears and use measurements as a tool. Put another way, if we designed by measurements there would be no AB-1266.


----------



## up late (Feb 16, 2018)

measurements don't lie - people do. measurements can be flawed, misinterpreted and misused, however.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

For the literalist, maybe I should have said they don't tell the truth.


----------



## up late

and what "truth" is that?


----------



## draytonklammer

Joe Skubinski said:


> Measurements can lie.
> 
> Jude covers limitations in measuring headphones...
> 
> ...



All I can do is say thank you Joe!


----------



## mulder01

up late said:


> and that's an example of a sweeping generalisation which is based on anecdotal evidence at best that may not even be statistically significant, let alone verifiable. it's no more founded in fact than any other personal belief is. while the "imo" caveat is a convenient way to excuse yourself from having to prove your point, it doesn't lend any weight to it either.



Why is everyone so jumpy all of a sudden?  I stated my opinion just like thousands of people do here every day.  I don't see the problem.

I PERSONALLY BELIEVE that things like measurements, and also reviews from well respected people like Tyll and Jude DEFINITELY affect people's expectation bias.  If you think that measurements, reviews and even passing comments people make on forums hold absolutely no weight on how people form their opinions on gear, then I think you are mistaken.

That is my non-verifiable non-statistically-proven generalisation that I have no hard evidence to support.  Only personal experience and observation.  Jeez.


----------



## FLTWS

mulder01 said:


> Why is everyone so jumpy all of a sudden?  I stated my opinion just like thousands of people do here every day.  I don't see the problem.
> 
> I PERSONALLY BELIEVE that things like measurements, and also reviews from well respected people like Tyll and Jude DEFINITELY affect people's expectation bias.  If you think that measurements, reviews and even passing comments people make on forums hold absolutely no weight on how people form their opinions on gear, then I think you are mistaken.
> 
> That is my non-verifiable non-statistically-proven generalisation that I have no hard evidence to support.  Only personal experience and observation.  Jeez.



It's not just this thread that's gotten "jumpy".


----------



## up late (Feb 16, 2018)

mulder01 said:


> Why is everyone so jumpy all of a sudden?  I stated my opinion just like thousands of people do here every day.  I don't see the problem.
> 
> I PERSONALLY BELIEVE that things like measurements, and also reviews from well respected people like Tyll and Jude DEFINITELY affect people's expectation bias.  If you think that measurements, reviews and even passing comments people make on forums hold absolutely no weight on how people form their opinions on gear, then I think you are mistaken.
> 
> That is my non-verifiable non-statistically-proven generalisation that I have no hard evidence to support.  Only personal experience and observation.  Jeez.


who's jumpy? i'm just commenting on your post. i agree that measurements, which is what you were referring to in your previous post, can influence some people's opinions but i think it's a leap to conclude that people "in general... care too much about measurements". you can hold onto your belief fwiw, but i haven't observed enough anecdotal evidence in the time that i've been frequenting this and other headphone fora to share it. i see plenty of posts in the forum threads here from people who disregard headphone measurements.


----------



## zhgutov

Well, this is easy to show that "the measurements can lie".
Take a look at these two graphs of the first version of Abyss:


 


There is no similar peaks or dips here at all.
The measurements shown above are different in that aspect too.


----------



## up late (Feb 16, 2018)

comparing different sets of headphone measurements taken on different measurement systems is not recommended. and this is a discussion for the sound science forum rather than here.


----------



## bfreedma

zhgutov said:


> Well, this is easy to show that "the measurements can lie".
> Take a look at these two graphs of the first version of Abyss:
> 
> 
> ...




Measurements don't lie, but there is so much potential for variability in headphone measurements that getting consistent results from the same measurement rig is difficult.  Trying to equate measurements from two different sources is almost impossible unless you have dozens of samples to see any patterns that can be extrapolated to the results for one specific headphone.  Different rigs tend to generate different results.  An even bigger issue is placement of the headphone on the rig - unless you have some serious gear and a headphone specific jig to ensure the placement is identical to the millimeter, differences are going to appear.


----------



## zhgutov

bfreedma said:


> Measurements don't lie, but there is so much potential for variability in headphone measurements that getting consistent results from the same measurement rig is difficult.





up late said:


> comparing different sets of headphone measurements taken on different measurement systems is not recommended



In this case they become useless. So, every area which is not repeatable in the measurements cannot be taken in account.
It depends on the measurement rig. It depends on the head. It depends on headphone adjustments.
It's a good thing for Abyss in that case, because they are highly adjustable.


----------



## up late

i regard headphone measurements as indicative rather than absolute and find them useful


----------



## bfreedma

zhgutov said:


> In this case they become useless. So, every area which is not repeatable in the measurements cannot be taken in account.
> It depends on the measurement rig. It depends on the head. It depends on headphone adjustments.
> It's a good thing for Abyss in that case, because they are highly adjustable.




Not all measurements are useless.  You just need to be aware of how they are being taken, the quality of the tester and their setup.  And perhaps most importantly, how much smoothing is being applied.  See the Sennheiser individual measurements of the HD800 as an example - I'm sure Sennheiser has a fully capable rig, yet the measurements given to owners are smoothed at 1/3rd Octave, ensuring that any significant peaks and dips are so heavily smoothed that they aren't actually visible on the chart.


----------



## zhgutov

I agree, so this shows that the opinions described here are very similar.


----------



## up late

how so?


----------



## zhgutov (Feb 16, 2018)

up late said:


> how so?


All these opinions show that the measurements might be a good instrument.
Other things may vary and this should be taken in account.
Isn't it what we are talking about here?
I think this is the meaning of "the measurements can lie".


----------



## zhgutov

This might be interesting if someone else can show its measurements of Abyss Phi. Just to see alternative.


----------



## up late (Feb 16, 2018)

zhgutov said:


> All these opinions show that the measurements might be a good instrument.
> Other things may vary and this should be taken in account.
> Isn't it what we are talking about here?
> I think this is the meaning of *"the measurements can lie"*.


i think that statement is an exaggeration tbh. headphone measurements can vary tho.


----------



## matthewhypolite

up late said:


> and what "truth" is that?



The truth that the Abyss Phi sounds amazing regardless of what the measurements say 

In my own review between utopia and abyss, they traded blows. But i tried listening to the utopia again after some time with the phi, and im wondering if I should sell the Utopia.....the phi is that good. Closest thing to a perfect headphones I've heard.

Need some more time before my full review  and final thougths, but thus far.... Wow.


----------



## up late

i'm glad that you have found your "truth" in headphone audio


----------



## bfreedma

zhgutov said:


> I agree, so this shows that the opinions described here are very similar.




I agree in that you need to understand individual opinions in a larger context.  

When I see people comment on headphones where there previous opinions align with how I hear a particular headphone we've both heard/owned, then I give their opinion more personal weight.  It doesn't mean that those who's opinions differ from mine are wrong, I just know that if they like a headphone, I may not.


----------



## matthewhypolite

bfreedma said:


> I agree in that you need to understand individual opinions in a larger context.
> 
> When I see people comment on headphones where there previous opinions align with how I hear a particular headphone we've both heard/owned, then I give their opinion more personal weight.  It doesn't mean that those who's opinions differ from mine are wrong, I just know that if they like a headphone, I may not.



Which is why it Is so important to understand a reviewers tastes and musical preferences, so you can assign the appropriate weight to their opinion., so if I know someone likes a clinical sound, and i dont, and they rate a particular headphone very highly, I know what to expect from said headphone/opinion and weight it accordingly


----------



## zhgutov

bfreedma said:


> I agree in that you need to understand individual opinions in a larger context.
> 
> When I see people comment on headphones where there previous opinions align with how I hear a particular headphone we've both heard/owned, then I give their opinion more personal weight.  It doesn't mean that those who's opinions differ from mine are wrong, I just know that if they like a headphone, I may not.


And how this contradicts to what I said?
I have not heard Phi yet, so I don't know how they sound.
It is possible what I missed something, what happened earlier in this thread.
I have not read it earlier than a couple of the days ago.
I have not seen the personal opinions about this headphones in this time frame.
Only the measurements which have a questionable area.


----------



## bfreedma

zhgutov said:


> And how this contradicts to what I said?
> I have not heard Phi yet, so I don't know how they sound.
> It is possible what I missed something, what happened earlier in this thread.
> I have not read it earlier than a couple of the days ago.
> ...




I thought I was basically agreeing with what you said, at least as far as how to evaluate various measurements and listening impressions.

One single point of data without understanding the context around it is hard to judge.


----------



## zhgutov

bfreedma said:


> I thought I was basically agreeing with what you said, at least as far as how to evaluate various measurements and listening impressions.
> 
> One single point of data without understanding the context around it is hard to judge.


LOL, seems like I missed what you mean.
English is not my native, sorry


----------



## jscmd2000

Thanks for taking the time to measure the Phi and post them!
I think the Phi measures very well, as expected.  No major flaws- taking into account all those factors and variables discussed.  It isn't perfect, but no hp is.  This is a great hobby and we are privileged!

Have a great weekend.
recently released and available on Tidal.


----------



## bfreedma

zhgutov said:


> LOL, seems like I missed what you mean.
> English is not my native, sorry




No problem at all.  I'm sure your English is a lot better than my skill in your native language!


----------



## jlbrach

figures don't lie but liars figure....something told to me years ago by a very wise man


----------



## tunes

Can the Abyss Phi be driven to satisfactory levels using direct with CHORD HUGO2 and no amp??


----------



## MacedonianHero

bfreedma said:


> Measurements don't lie, but there is so much potential for variability in headphone measurements that getting consistent results from the same measurement rig is difficult.  Trying to equate measurements from two different sources is almost impossible unless you have dozens of samples to see any patterns that can be extrapolated to the results for one specific headphone.  Different rigs tend to generate different results.  An even bigger issue is placement of the headphone on the rig - unless you have some serious gear and a headphone specific jig to ensure the placement is identical to the millimeter, differences are going to appear.



Very well stated. I did some work with Tyll a few years back and as you mentioned; getting consistent results from the same measurement rig is difficult:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...measurement-repeatability-and-reproducibility

That's not to say all have similar issues (because I'm fairly certain they do to differing degrees). I use measurements as part of my evaluation process, but ultimately default to what I'm hearing; after all, that's where the "rubber hits the road". But measurements can be helpful and keep us "honest" and from tricking ourselves. 

Listening to David Chesky's "The Deep" tonight (192kps) with the Phi - GS-X Mk2 - DAVE setup and personal audio just doesn't get any better than what I'm hearing!


----------



## MacedonianHero

tunes said:


> Can the Abyss Phi be driven to satisfactory levels using direct with CHORD HUGO2 and no amp??



Wit the DAVE, yes, with the Hugo2, not really. FWIW, I own both.


----------



## zhgutov

MacedonianHero said:


> getting consistent results from the same measurement rig is difficult:
> https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...measurement-repeatability-and-reproducibility


There are more similarities in that measurements anyway.
Things become harder when you have two rigs which show the different results.
The global picture may be similar, but the details may be different.
And this will not allow to tell anything about dips and peaks for sure.
Some headphones show the similar results with the different rigs.
As I can see, mostly the dynamic headphones have such qualities.
Some planars tend to show the different results, probably because of the driver construction
with the holes (everything is more complex in terms of resonances).
This is just my guess, but I think it is not so far from the truth.
The question which come to my mind is how this corresponds to the case
when the different people use such headphones?


----------



## MacedonianHero

zhgutov said:


> There are more similarities in that measurements anyway.
> Things become harder when you have two rigs which show the different results.
> The global picture may be similar, but the details may be different.
> And this will not allow to tell anything about dips and peaks for sure.
> ...



The data suggests that there are issues by simply removing and replacing headphones as even the slightest changes can affect frequencies higher than 3.5kHz and especially over 9kHz where the scatter in data really starts to appreciate. Armed with this knowledge, you can sprinkle with as much salt that's required. Between 2 different rigs, there simply are no comparisons.


----------



## zhgutov (Feb 16, 2018)

MacedonianHero said:


> Between 2 different rigs, there simply are no comparisons.


Why not? Take a look at this graph, for example:






And T1 from innerfidelity:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT1SN3964.pdf

The graphs have different smoothing, but the result it pretty the same.
This is not the only headphones which show such similarity.

Moreover, I think it is very interesting to see the results from the different rigs.
If the difference exists this may be a good sign that the headphones can sound different for different people and can show its bads in some cases (or not to show).


----------



## MacedonianHero

Because the measurement devices, setups (dummy head vs, nothing, vs. different in-ear canals, vs. different ear types), etc... are all different and can very easily change the measurements. I would not recommend extrapolating too much between different setups.


----------



## Thenewguy007

MacedonianHero said:


> Listening to David Chesky's "The Deep" tonight (192kps) with the Phi - GS-X Mk2 - DAVE setup and personal audio just doesn't get any better than what I'm hearing!



So you think the GS-X a better amp than the internal amp in the Dave is for the Abyss?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Thenewguy007 said:


> So you think the GS-X a better amp than the internal amp in the Dave is for the Abyss?



I prefer the added power (5+W), head room and dynamics. But the difference aren’t big by any means. I could very happily live with just the DAVE.


----------



## up late (Feb 17, 2018)

zhgutov said:


> Why not? Take a look at this graph, for example:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



it is likely that different headphone target response curves are being used for these different sets of measurements as well and while it is the same headphone model that is being measured, it is unlikely that it is the same headphone. these are variables that shouldn't be ignored and make the validity of the comparison questionable. again, this is a discussion that should be taking place over in the sound science forum rather than here as it's off-topic.


----------



## FLTWS

MacedonianHero said:


> The data suggests that there are issues by simply removing and replacing headphones as even the slightest changes can affect frequencies higher than 3.5kHz and especially over 9kHz where the scatter in data really starts to appreciate. Armed with this knowledge, you can sprinkle with as much salt that's required. Between 2 different rigs, there simply are no comparisons.



Measurements aside, I've had my Phi for 2 and a half months. I've found that the rotational position of the ear pads has a very big effect on the sound I hear up and down the frequency range. The most comfortable position for my head and ears turned out not to be the best sounding position. I started with a position that equalized the clamping pressure all the way around but, over time, found a bit more clamping pressure on my head above my ear to be best for bass impact, detail and air and  better clarity and smoothness overall top to bottom.


----------



## tunes

simorag said:


> Hello guys, after lurking for several months on this thread (thank you everybody for the valuable contribution btw) I purchased the Abyss AB-1266 Phi (just Phi hereafter) a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> I am still under 100hr of playtime, so perhaps still in the burn-in period, but I wanted to share my impressions with the community.
> 
> ...


Nice review. Did you ever get a chance to compare the Phi to the HEKV2?  Another HP with a wide open soundstage but less sibilence and good base and sub base rumble. I bet they would sound great driven by DAVE.


----------



## simorag

Thanks @tunes ,

yes I believe as well that the HEKV2 could be a good complement to the Phi, since they reportedly have a smooth sound and a great synergy with the DAVE direct! I did not heard them, though.

An used pair is on my radar in the mid term, but now I am focused on upgrading my source (music server and/or Chord Blu Mk2).

Cheers,
Simone


----------



## gonzalo1004es

simorag said:


> Hello guys, after lurking for several months on this thread (thank you everybody for the valuable contribution btw) I purchased the Abyss AB-1266 Phi (just Phi hereafter) a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> I am still under 100hr of playtime, so perhaps still in the burn-in period, but I wanted to share my impressions with the community.
> 
> ...


Nice review, very useful! Would you say the soundstage feels closer/further compared to the HD800S? Thanks!


----------



## simorag

Hello @gonzalo1004s,
to my ears HD800S sound a bit more "in your face" and 2D, while the Phi has a similarly wide soundstage with more depth and air around instruments and / or singers. For most recordings and types of music, I like the Phi presentation more.


----------



## gonzalo1004es

simorag said:


> Hello @gonzalo1004s,
> to my ears HD800S sound a bit more "in your face" and 2D, while the Phi has a similarly wide soundstage with more depth and air around instruments and / or singers. For most recordings and types of music, I like the Phi presentation more.


Thanks!


----------



## MacedonianHero

gonzalo1004es said:


> Nice review, very useful! Would you say the soundstage feels closer/further compared to the HD800S? Thanks!



With enough juice behind them, I find the Abyss Phi's sound staging can exceed the HD800S (I own both FWIW). But when the recording is set on a small soundstage (like a jazz trio), it won't sound artificially large either. It will scale according to the recording, something the HD800/800S can't do as well.


----------



## Rayzilla (Feb 22, 2018)

FLTWS said:


> Measurements aside, I've had my Phi for 2 and a half months. I've found that the rotational position of the ear pads has a very big effect on the sound I hear up and down the frequency range. The most comfortable position for my head and ears turned out not to be the best sounding position. I started with a position that equalized the clamping pressure all the way around but, over time, found a bit more clamping pressure on my head above my ear to be best for bass impact, detail and air and  better clarity and smoothness overall top to bottom.


When I read your description of the best pad setting for your listening experience, I immediately thought about the K1000, which I have never had the pleasure of hearing myself yet but that's what came to my mind.

Today I started going through some rotations and when I reached the position that you mention, I have to agree with your description of the change in sound. After listening to it this way for a couple of hours, I then went back to my original setting, which is as you describe "equalized the clamping pressure all the way around" and I didn't like it this way anymore.

Now I am continuing on with the rotation so that the notch stitching is at like 5 o'clock if you look at the right ear pad. This puts the pressure still at the top but slightly towards the front. It leaves a pretty big opening at the bottom and towards the back. It sounds promising too. Will keep trying this way and compare to pressure directly at the top.

On another topic, have you guys heard about that new flagship tube amp by Cayin?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...t-canjam-nyc-2018.872093/page-2#post-14058024
It sounds very interesting and it can run speakers too. I would love to hear any thoughts on how that might match up with the Abyss (and I know most of the comments will refer to the Phi but I hope that the original will be mentioned and not totally forgotten too).

And also comments regarding the ifi iCan Pro with the Abyss.

Thanks.


----------



## FLTWS

@Rayzilla 
I positioned mine so that the seam on the side of the ear pad is at the 3 o'clock position (facing front or forward part of the phone) when looking into the Left ear cup, and mirror imaged the Right side.
So far so good with my head and ear shape. It also minimizes the contact with my outer ears and the inside of the ear pad.


----------



## Rayzilla

FLTWS said:


> @Rayzilla
> I positioned mine so that the seam on the side of the ear pad is at the 3 o'clock position (facing front or forward part of the phone) when looking into the Left ear cup, and mirror imaged the Right side.
> So far so good with my head and ear shape. It also minimizes the contact with my outer ears and the inside of the ear pad.


I guess everyone's head shape is different. So when you say "a bit more clamping pressure on my head above my ear to be best", do you mean having the thick part of the ear pad to be at the top of your ears? So that most of the pressure from the ear pad rests above the ears. If that is the case, this is what I meant. I am not near my Abyss now but I'll check on the 3 o'clock position tomorrow and report back.

I added a link to the Cayin amp in my post above.


----------



## FLTWS (Feb 22, 2018)

Rayzilla said:


> I guess everyone's head shape is different. So when you say "a bit more clamping pressure on my head above my ear to be best", do you mean having the thick part of the ear pad to be at the top of your ears? So that most of the pressure from the ear pad rests above the ears. If that is the case, this is what I meant. I am not near my Abyss now but I'll check on the 3 o'clock position tomorrow and report back.
> 
> I added a link to the Cayin amp in my post above.



No. When looking into the Left ear cup the thinnest (or least deep) part of the ear pad is at the 3 o'clock position (this is where the seam is), the fattest (most deep) part is at the 9 o'clock position. On my head and jawline this results in slightly greater pressure above the ear than at any other position around the ear because of all the different parameters. At the bottom of the ear the pressure is very light but the seal is still complete with no gaps. And your right, the shape of everyone's ear plus skull, plus jaw line will be different so what works best for one may not work best for someone else. In fact, I think it's rare that a persons 2 ears will be mirror images, even if close looking size wise; the ear lobes can vary in size, the height of one ear can be different left vs right, are they pinned or flyaway and identically or not, and on and on. That's why each individual has to figure it out for themselves.


----------



## ufospls2

Hey guys,

I posted some thoughts on the Abyss Phi and the Hifiman Susvara over here

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/page-68#post-14061803

Thought some of you might be interested


----------



## Rayzilla

Has anyone tried the Abyss with the Icon Audio HP8 MkII?


----------



## yakaway

Does anyone know the timeframe and process for the phi upgrade?


----------



## mulder01

Last I heard, the wait was about 6 months but that could have changed by now.  Send Joe Skubinski a PM - he is the man to ask.
You don't have to send them away until your turn in the queue comes up though, so you don't have to go very long without them in your possession.


----------



## draytonklammer

yakaway said:


> Does anyone know the timeframe and process for the phi upgrade?



Pretty long wait list, but the turnaround time is very short.


----------



## yakaway

They estimate 20 weeks.

What is the cost?  Is it just a driver upgrade?


----------



## draytonklammer

yakaway said:


> They estimate 20 weeks.
> 
> What is the cost?  Is it just a driver upgrade?



$1500.00 USD (you pay shipping to them) and it is a full driver upgrade.


----------



## jscmd2000

I am not sure if this is even possible, but I think I might be experiencing a type of driver imbalance.  
I usually don't listen to music with too much bass so didn't notice before, but when I listen to pop music with very heavy thumping subbass, the right side feels much more prominent compared to the left side... about 80/20.  If I turn the hp around so the right channel is on my left ear, the left side gets much more prominent so don't think it is my ears.  If I switch the cables so the right channel is connected to the left driver, the right side stays more prominent so don't think it is my system imbalance.  It is as if the bass response of the right driver is boosted, because the mids and highs do not seem particularly more prominent on the right, at least not to the same degree.  This is happening with the earpads set to the same position to be symmetric.


----------



## draytonklammer

jscmd2000 said:


> I am not sure if this is even possible, but I think I might be experiencing a type of driver imbalance.
> I usually don't listen to music with too much bass so didn't notice before, but when I listen to pop music with very heavy thumping subbass, the right side feels much more prominent compared to the left side... about 80/20.  If I turn the hp around so the right channel is on my left ear, the left side gets much more prominent so don't think it is my ears.  If I switch the cables so the right channel is connected to the left driver, the right side stays more prominent so don't think it is my system imbalance.  It is as if the bass response of the right driver is boosted, because the mids and highs do not seem particularly more prominent on the right, at least not to the same degree.  This is happening with the earpads set to the same position to be symmetric.



This is due to your fit. 

The ear pads don't necessarily need to be symmetric. 

I eventually fiddled around and fixed my fit so that it wouldn't do that.


----------



## jscmd2000

Thanks,
I can change the ear pad position to somewhat improve but not completely correct the imbalance.
Listening to 2am (matoma remix), Astrid S.
Sounds perfectly balanced on my utopia...  I will keep playing with the pads.  Thanks again.


----------



## draytonklammer

jscmd2000 said:


> Thanks,
> I can change the ear pad position to somewhat improve but not completely correct the imbalance.
> Listening to 2am (matoma remix), Astrid S.
> Sounds perfectly balanced on my utopia...  I will keep playing with the pads.  Thanks again.



Another question for you then. 
Is there a gap in between the metal frame and the leather headband?
Does it feel centered on your ears?

I'm curious if you need to potentially also bend the frame outwards or pull it inwards potentially. 

Lots of thoughts, don't do anything too crazy until others chime in as well.

For me a lot of my problems went away when I got a properly sized headband.


----------



## Xecuter

jscmd2000 said:


> I am not sure if this is even possible, but I think I might be experiencing a type of driver imbalance.
> I usually don't listen to music with too much bass so didn't notice before, but when I listen to pop music with very heavy thumping subbass, the right side feels much more prominent compared to the left side... about 80/20.  If I turn the hp around so the right channel is on my left ear, the left side gets much more prominent so don't think it is my ears.  If I switch the cables so the right channel is connected to the left driver, the right side stays more prominent so don't think it is my system imbalance.  It is as if the bass response of the right driver is boosted, because the mids and highs do not seem particularly more prominent on the right, at least not to the same degree.  This is happening with the earpads set to the same position to be symmetric.



Sounds to me like a channel imbalance from a loose connection internally.
This happens sometimes - I had to send my abyss away for it recently..

As usual Joe looked after his customer very well. Can't say the same about my dealer though.


----------



## jscmd2000

Thanks. Good to know it can happen.  My dealer said he will talk to Joe.



draytonklammer said:


> Another question for you then.
> Is there a gap in between the metal frame and the leather headband?
> Does it feel centered on your ears?
> 
> ...



Yes, there is a gap and it does feel centered.  Bending the frame in or outward does not seem to help!


----------



## draytonklammer

Darn I was hoping it would be fit related. 
Hoping it's not the drivers and is just something like a cable maybe. Have you switched the cables around? Sorry, I don't remember if you had said so. Couldn't tell if you just wore the headphones backwards or if the cables were switched (or both)

Just trying to help, sorry if this ends up being irrelevant.


----------



## lambdastorm

jscmd2000 said:


> I am not sure if this is even possible, but I think I might be experiencing a type of driver imbalance.
> I usually don't listen to music with too much bass so didn't notice before, but when I listen to pop music with very heavy thumping subbass, the right side feels much more prominent compared to the left side... about 80/20.  If I turn the hp around so the right channel is on my left ear, the left side gets much more prominent so don't think it is my ears.  If I switch the cables so the right channel is connected to the left driver, the right side stays more prominent so don't think it is my system imbalance.  It is as if the bass response of the right driver is boosted, because the mids and highs do not seem particularly more prominent on the right, at least not to the same degree.  This is happening with the earpads set to the same position to be symmetric.


This. I bought my Abyss here a month ago and my unit has the EXACT same problem. I tried everything you did and I even did a frequency sweep, up till about 120Hz everything's fine but starting from this point downwards the left driver seems to rumble significantly less than the right. It's so weird, I've tried absolutely everything and the same issue persist. I'm not even sure if its channel imbalance since vocals and highs are perfectly fine, just that the bass rumble seems to all come from the right driver.


----------



## lambdastorm

lambdastorm said:


> This. I bought my Abyss here a month ago and my unit has the EXACT same problem. I tried everything you did and I even did a frequency sweep, up till about 120Hz everything's fine but starting from this point downwards the left driver seems to rumble significantly less than the right. It's so weird, I've tried absolutely everything and the same issue persist. I'm not even sure if its channel imbalance since vocals and highs are perfectly fine, just that the bass rumble seems to all come from the right driver.


Oh and when did you get your Abyss? Is it the Phi or no?


----------



## lambdastorm

Xecuter said:


> Sounds to me like a channel imbalance from a loose connection internally.
> This happens sometimes - I had to send my abyss away for it recently..
> 
> As usual Joe looked after his customer very well. Can't say the same about my dealer though.


I really doubt its channel imbalance tho, since from 120Hz and up the left and right channels are perfectly matched, just that the lower region seems missing from the left driver as if it has less excursion than the right.


----------



## FLTWS (Feb 27, 2018)

draytonklammer said:


> Another question for you then.
> Is there a gap in between the metal frame and the leather headband? ...



Along those lines, It's surprisingly easy to not get a tight seal between the phone and the ear pad frame when rotating to different positions to find the sweet spot for fit. I end up usually pinching my way around the ear pad frame to make sure it's fully seated.

Also, play a mono recording with bass to see if the image is centralized or off center.


----------



## Xecuter

yeh mine was just about 3db quieter on the left channel, it was more noticeable from the mid bass down but I never did a sweep. 
It took me a few months to send it away, because I was diving a lot and sometimes get channel imbalance in my ears. I also have a really thin right ear drum and a normal left one.
So it took a lot of tube rolling, headphone swapping, left and right isolation to finally be sure there was an issue.

Since getting them back everything is perfect again.


----------



## lambdastorm

Xecuter said:


> yeh mine was just about 3db quieter on the left channel, it was more noticeable from the mid bass down but I never did a sweep.
> It took me a few months to send it away, because I was diving a lot and sometimes get channel imbalance in my ears. I also have a really thin right ear drum and a normal left one.
> So it took a lot of tube rolling, headphone swapping, left and right isolation to finally be sure there was an issue.
> 
> Since getting them back everything is perfect again.


Did Joe replace the drivers? Mine's an early 1266 and I definitely prefer it to the Phi after hearing it at a friend's house, replacing the drivers' would be the last resort for me.


----------



## jscmd2000

draytonklammer said:


> Darn I was hoping it would be fit related.
> Hoping it's not the drivers and is just something like a cable maybe. Have you switched the cables around? Sorry, I don't remember if you had said so. Couldn't tell if you just wore the headphones backwards or if the cables were switched (or both)
> 
> Just trying to help, sorry if this ends up being irrelevant.



Yes, thanks, you are a good man... appreciate the help!



lambdastorm said:


> Did Joe replace the drivers? Mine's an early 1266 and I definitely prefer it to the Phi after hearing it at a friend's house, replacing the drivers' would be the last resort for me.



It might be worth it to ask if they would repair them or if they have the original 1266 drivers since they will most likely just swap rather than "repair" a driver.  It might be cheaper than upgrading to the Phi.  
Just wondering, why did you not like the new Phi?


----------



## lambdastorm

jscmd2000 said:


> Yes, thanks, you are a good man... appreciate the help!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It sounds thin on my system. I borrowed my friend's fully burnt-in Phi for a whole day and though I can definitely hear more detail and low end extension, it doesn't have as much rumble as the old Abyss, and to me the old Abyss is much easier on the ears. Phi wears my ears out pretty fast tbh.


----------



## Xecuter (Feb 27, 2018)

Nope, they just fixed the connection and sent it back.

Sending in for repair won't bump you to the top of the queue. So don't get any ideas guys. I'm still on a six month wait list, However I am on the fence if I should upgrade. I'm barely using headphones now that i have space for speakers.


----------



## lambdastorm

Xecuter said:


> Nope, they just fixed the connection and sent it back.
> 
> Sending in for repair won't bump you to the top of the queue. So don't get any ideas guys. I'm still on a six month wait list, However I am on the fence if I should upgrade. I'm barely using headphones now that i have space for speakers.


Wow, I thought the driver either works or produce no sound at all. Never heard of channel imbalance caused by loose connection before...
Anyways, how much is it to fix the connection?


----------



## Xecuter

You will have to see what Joe says. Sorry.


----------



## lambdastorm

jscmd2000 said:


> symmetric





Xecuter said:


> You will have to see what Joe says. Sorry.


Got it. Thx for the advice pal.


----------



## Maxx134

Wow I check in here after my last post pages back and allot of commotion over measurements lol.
I tested Abyss Phi on 2 different occasion and never seen any such issues.



Joe Skubinski said:


> Measurements can lie.


Measurements surely do lie.
Sometimes a peak is from the measurement rig using "ears"
Sometimes a peak shows up as a dip.

That's why you need compare the FR to the CSD to see how the decays and multipliers affect the FR.
Then there are the other measurements like distortion and impulse very important than worrying about some FR  anomaly like resonance in the coupler.

I did not measure any such peaks and it shows how important the coupler is for measuring (type of mic, powered or usb, and calibration file choice, materials used for surface and mic support , whether mic in an ear or flat surface)

All that still not cover the DSP and sound proof chamber type that the best most expensive   & excellent measurement setups like what Jude & Tyll have...




up late said:


> measurements can be flawed, misinterpreted and misused, however.


Yep its definitely a field that requires experience and interpretation.


----------



## up late

that discussion took place more than two weeks ago and the thread has moved on. there's no need to bring it up again.


----------



## jlbrach

I must say by accident I got the Phi to go from great to even better....I have been listening to it  with the ear cups essentially set as described in the Abyss video...I had been experimenting different configurations by adjusting the frame and loved what I had been hearing....for whatever reason I decided to monkey around with the earpads and changed them so the fat part was  higher up on my head which had the effect of placing the ear cups further from my ears...Comfort wise it is not an improvement but sound wise it is a revelation,the bass has gone from deep to truly impactful....the sound is more dynamic and the soundstage even wider...I must admit i am kind of shocked,I want to try to continue to adjust for comfort but  the sound now is truly remarkable....


----------



## draytonklammer

Where is the notch for you right now?

Mine is at about 1-2 o' clock or so and I haven't heard better.
Curious if I should mess around a bit more.


----------



## jlbrach

looking straight on the left notch is around 4 o'clock and the right around 8....


----------



## draytonklammer

I'll give it a go around.
So far I like the way this fit represents what I am listening to.

I do understand the discomfort part though, haha...


----------



## rumina (Mar 5, 2018)

after a lot of thinkink (about weight, comfort, fitting) i have now the abyss phi. the biggest "wow" effect was that i needed to hear the changes of the sound with the fit to understand the idea behinde it. the direction that they only gentle touche your head is a perfect start, thanks to this forum .  i realised that you can adjust the damping of the diaphragm with this headphone frame. imo they need some ventilation to sound best. is the fit tight (ea closed) the bass goes away and sounds muddy, otherwise, if the fit is very open the bass gets a boost up to getting bloomed.

after some time i realised that the headband due the tension wearing the headphone pushed the frame together, changes the sound. i then printed some spacers for the frame:




after finding the right size the fun begins. i can new rotate the frame a bit that the pads opens a tad more at the front and can so adjust the damping and the bass responce. it's a clever design. i don't know if my frame is not as tight as others but with the adapters i have reference points to go back and forward to hear the changes of the sound. the best sound i have with a realy soft touch of the pads around my head, a tad less (tiny tad open) in the front. they reminds my a bit of the jecklin float, little wobbling around when you move your head (and as i was a teenager then the fear that they fall down gg).

imo due the time you need to adjust the headphone it's a very variable sounding headphone, so everyone will stop a the point he like the sound best - realy clever and smart made.

don't need to say that they sound superb, nice parter for my dynahi or pass sony vfet, they need power. i can also understand the people that sold their electrostatic systems, the abyss is fast as hell.

my notch is also around 1-2


----------



## Rayzilla

jlbrach said:


> I must say by accident I got the Phi to go from great to even better....I have been listening to it  with the ear cups essentially set as described in the Abyss video...I had been experimenting different configurations by adjusting the frame and loved what I had been hearing....for whatever reason I decided to monkey around with the earpads and changed them so the fat part was  higher up on my head which had the effect of placing the ear cups further from my ears...Comfort wise it is not an improvement but sound wise it is a revelation,the bass has gone from deep to truly impactful....the sound is more dynamic and the soundstage even wider...I must admit i am kind of shocked,I want to try to continue to adjust for comfort but  the sound now is truly remarkable....



Below is what I was trying to explain before. I think it is what you are doing here.



Rayzilla said:


> This puts the pressure still at the top but slightly towards the front. It leaves a pretty big opening at the bottom and towards the back. It sounds promising too. Will keep trying this way and compare to pressure directly at the top.


----------



## Rayzilla

draytonklammer said:


> I'll give it a go around.
> So far I like the way this fit represents what I am listening to.
> 
> I do understand the discomfort part though, haha...



Because everyone's head and features is shaped differently, I think  the key to describing the setting is not by the notches but rather, by the result of the setting. Such as, where is most of the pressure? Is the space equal all around or are there areas with greater space than other areas? Are there any openings? Where is most of the opening? etc.

In my case and I am still experimenting but I am finding a pretty nice sweet spot when I have most of the pressure at the very top of the ear and with slightly a little more towards the front of the top rather than the back part of the top. 

And other thing I did was using this sponge padding that I found in a packaging. Think of a square that is about 13cm and in the square, there is a circle (with a diameter of 9cm) cut out. And it's about 2cm thick. So now the pressure is spread out around the circle instead of most of the pressure coming from the middle of the leather band. This may look silly but it really helps disperse the pressure.

If anyone needs pictures, I can try to add them later.


----------



## draytonklammer

Yeah, it's amazing how many different settings I've enjoyed with the Abyss.

That being said, my favorite is with the notch at around 1-2 o' clock .


----------



## FLTWS

One of the benefits of the 1266 design is that you can customize the fit without taking it apart. I've yet to audition any other phone with this much flexibility in the area of fit.


----------



## draytonklammer

Small update to my Abyss Phi review:
https://tascware.com/blogs/showthread.php?tid=1

Thanks for the interest. I've had a lot of messages so far related.
Hoping to get my hands on new stuff to review soon.


----------



## galacticsoap

Hi Everyone - I'm still very much on the edge by way of upgrading my AB1266 to Phi-spec, that is to say I love the sound my AB1266's currently generate. I listen to mainly electronic music so scale, dynamics and PRAT are the reason I invested in the Abyss' and to date they never fail to put a smile on my face. What concerns me about the Phi's is around reports that sub-bass performance is slightly restrained (in comparison to the original Abyss' - but still very much best in class) so as to create more control of the Phi's grip on low frequency extension. Other than that, a more resolving driver, and a more controlled top end sound great. I just down want to lose what I love so much about Abyss' in their current guise i.e. slam, authority, PRAT and extension. 

I note there are few users on here who have decided against the upgrade - if its okay, I'd like to explore why that was the case. Happy to do this in this thread or via PM. Lastly, are there in IDM fans who have upgraded to the Phi's and haven't looked back? I listen mainly to Techno, Tech House, Deep House, Progressive House and Ambient.


----------



## ufospls2

galacticsoap said:


> Hi Everyone - I'm still very much on the edge by way of upgrading my AB1266 to Phi-spec, that is to say I love the sound my AB1266's currently generate. I listen to mainly electronic music so scale, dynamics and PRAT are the reason I invested in the Abyss' and to date they never fail to put a smile on my face. What concerns me about the Phi's is around reports that sub-bass performance is slightly restrained (in comparison to the original Abyss' - but still very much best in class) so as to create more control of the Phi's grip on low frequency extension. Other than that, a more resolving driver, and a more controlled top end sound great. I just down want to lose what I love so much about Abyss' in their current guise i.e. slam, authority, PRAT and extension.
> 
> I note there are few users on here who have decided against the upgrade - if its okay, I'd like to explore why that was the case. Happy to do this in this thread or via PM. Lastly, are there in IDM fans who have upgraded to the Phi's and haven't looked back? I listen mainly to Techno, Tech House, Deep House, Progressive House and Ambient.



Mostly an IDM listener here, mixed in with some Jazz and weird folk music and stuff. I upgraded to the Phi and haven't looked back.

Here are my initial impressions from when I first got the Phi.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-371#post-13512659

_*Bass: Percussive and impactful. Large. Is there more quantity than the originals? So far, I don’t think so. With that being said, I think it extends deeper. The bass is one of my favourite parts of the AB-1266 Phi, there isn’t too much of it (I like bass though) and it isn’t lacking. Its just this enveloping force that punches your ears with great impact. It is bass done right, in my opinion.*_

I prefer the bass of the Phi for what it is worth.


----------



## mulder01

galacticsoap said:


> I note there are few users on here who have decided against the upgrade - if its okay, I'd like to explore why that was the case.



I mainly haven't updated mine because of the cost.  I'm trying to spend less on head fi gear and somehow I keep slowly spending more...
And as the old saying goes, if it aint broke don't fix it.
I think some others with the original model are just still on the waiting list.  (It's about a 5 month-long queue I think)


----------



## Thenewguy007

When people say, bass extends deeper, do they mean the physical sound waves from the sub-bass are felt harder or do they just mean they hear more musical details in the sub-bass??


----------



## ufospls2

Thenewguy007 said:


> When people say, bass extends deeper, do they mean the physical sound waves from the sub-bass are felt harder or do they just mean they hear more musical details in the sub-bass??



I'm not really sure how to describe it. I guess I felt the sub bass was more present. Could be how I had them set up, as that effects the sub bass.


----------



## galacticsoap

Thenewguy007 said:


> When people say, bass extends deeper, do they mean the physical sound waves from the sub-bass are felt harder or do they just mean they hear more musical details in the sub-bass??



When I use the term, particularly with the Abyss (as they deliver such a visceral experience particularly when it comes to sub-bass) I mean a bit of both.


----------



## Rayzilla

mulder01 said:


> I mainly haven't updated mine because of the cost.  I'm trying to spend less on head fi gear and somehow I keep slowly spending more...
> And as the old saying goes, if it aint broke don't fix it.
> I think some others with the original model are just still on the waiting list.  (It's about a 5 month-long queue I think)


I haven't updated mine for two reasons.

One, I plan to allocate the money that I would spend on the upgrade to Phi to upgrading my amplifier instead.

Second, I also listen to similar music like IDM and lately I have been listening to a lot of DJ radio shows from websites like global-sets.com and livetracklist.com. Can't really buy this stuff and have such updated tunes and incredible variety. If you guys have suggestions for other sources of similar music, please let me know. Anyway, on to my second reason. My favourite headphone prior to the Abyss (and for a brief time after that with the HE6) was the HD800. I tested out the HD800S and I much preferred the HD800. I may be wrong on this but I have a feeling the Phi to the original Abyss is like the HD800S to the HD800. That's the feeling I have without having the opportunity to hear the Phi and no possibility to do so without buying an air ticket.


----------



## MacedonianHero

galacticsoap said:


> Hi Everyone - I'm still very much on the edge by way of upgrading my AB1266 to Phi-spec, that is to say I love the sound my AB1266's currently generate. I listen to mainly electronic music so scale, dynamics and PRAT are the reason I invested in the Abyss' and to date they never fail to put a smile on my face. What concerns me about the Phi's is around reports that sub-bass performance is slightly restrained (in comparison to the original Abyss' - but still very much best in class) so as to create more control of the Phi's grip on low frequency extension. Other than that, a more resolving driver, and a more controlled top end sound great. I just down want to lose what I love so much about Abyss' in their current guise i.e. slam, authority, PRAT and extension.
> 
> I note there are few users on here who have decided against the upgrade - if its okay, I'd like to explore why that was the case. Happy to do this in this thread or via PM. Lastly, are there in IDM fans who have upgraded to the Phi's and haven't looked back? I listen mainly to Techno, Tech House, Deep House, Progressive House and Ambient.



For me it's a no-brainer decision! My Abyss Phi review will be out in early April on Headphone.Guru and while I enjoyed the original, it was never enough to buy them. That said, the Phi are among my absolute favourite headphones of all time! I shared this with Joe a few days ago, but I recently listened to the latest remaster of Sgt Peppers with them and my Chord DAVE --> GS-X Mk2 (Audioquest Water XLRs) and while I've listened to this album over a hundred times (including with a great Stax SR-009 rig), I swear, I heard things that I never did hear before. This was the closest I got to listening to this brilliant album on speakers!


----------



## galacticsoap

Thank you, everyone, you've put my mind at ease!  I'll get in touch with Joe re: getting on the waiting list to upgrade to Phi spec. The opportunity to improve the mid-range and top end sound like worthwhile investments. 

Looking forward to that review @MacedonianHero .


----------



## MacedonianHero

galacticsoap said:


> Thank you, everyone, you've put my mind at ease!  I'll get in touch with Joe re: getting on the waiting list to upgrade to Phi spec. The opportunity to improve the mid-range and top end sound like worthwhile investments.
> 
> Looking forward to that review @MacedonianHero .



Congrats! Great decision IMO; also improved detail retrieval and transparency! Review should be out April 2!


----------



## Mystel

Just wanna share my personal experience with these incredible cans after about 9 months of ownership
Currently running Dave>EC Studio(4x RCA Black Plates)> Prion4s>Abyss Phi 
I must say that to my ears, the Phi is the only non electrostatic headphone that i have owned that possesses the speed and transparency of my stax rig 
I have parted with my Utopia and LCD4 months ago as i felt that they just cant keep up with my staxes ever since i started a stax rig. The Abyss phi however, remained.
I listen to both my 009 and Phi on a regular basis and i find them so close in transparency its incredible 
The Abyss Phi however, is still my preferred listen as it sounds more exciting and forgiving to me.
Until now, and im still thoroughly impressed by it every time i put it on!


----------



## Thenewguy007

Mystel said:


> Just wanna share my personal experience with these incredible cans after about 9 months of ownership
> Currently running Dave>EC Studio(4x RCA Black Plates)> Prion4s>Abyss Phi
> I must say that to my ears, the Phi is the only non electrostatic headphone that i have owned that possesses the speed and transparency of my stax rig
> I have parted with my Utopia and LCD4 months ago as i felt that they just cant keep up with my staxes ever since i started a stax rig. The Abyss phi however, remained.
> ...




You got a really high end system you run.
So how is the Phi running on the EC Studio vs straight from the Dave? 

A few people said adding a separate amp just colors the sound & a few others said the amp portion in the Dave is not powerful enough to full drive the Abyss.


----------



## Mystel

Thenewguy007 said:


> You got a really high end system you run.
> So how is the Phi running on the EC Studio vs straight from the Dave?
> 
> A few people said adding a separate amp just colors the sound & a few others said the amp portion in the Dave is not powerful enough to full drive the Abyss.



Well maybe i can answer this with my amp journey for the Phi 
Do note that im not very good at describing what i hear but i'll try my best.

Personally, i did enjoy the sound of the Phi + Dave 
I think that the Dave's internal amp drives the Phi adequately. 
However, i much prefer a livelier, more exciting sound from the Phis and the Dave just doesnt do it for me. Sure its detailed, spacious and transparent enough but it just doesnt quite provide the kind of musical engagement id like to hear. 
Since getting the Phis, ive been through numerous amps in search for something that will provide just that. 
Ive had the 430ha/Liquid Gold briefly last year, and for me they provided the kick i was looking for. but i felt that the detail loss vs through the Dave direct was too obvious and i couldnt quite stick with them for too long. On top of that, i felt that both amps did inject their own character into the phi. The 430 smoothening the sound while adding more authority, and the liquid gold just adding more punch and sweetness to the sound 
Then came the Gsx, which i heard no detail loss coming from the Dave direct at all. This thing was definitely transparent enough. For me i prefer the gsx+dave to just the dave itself. It did provide what i was looking for, but i could still use a little more sweetness to the sound, The gsx to me was rich and aggressive sounding relative to the Dave
When i  got the EC Studio, i felt that for once, an amp was actually enhancing the Dave rather than injecting its own flavor into it. It made the Phi more sweet, spacious and punchy without any detail loss. I have finally found what i was looking for. I honestly have no idea if adding this extra bit of excitement will result in a step closer to listening in an actual live concert, or will it be a step backwards instead(as a result of exaggerated soundstage/bass etc). 
But i know that i prefer how music is presented to me now.

In short, i felt that adding a good amp like the EC Studio into the chain was an upgrade rather than a sidegrade. 
Of course, these are just my impressions and others might have different findings/thoughts


----------



## spotforscott

Been lurking here for awhile. Just getting into headphones. Tried many TOTL headphones at a Toronto headphone shop using a Chord DAVE (my DAC). They all had strengths and weaknesses and none of them completely grabbed me. I wanted to try Abyss Phi but headphone shop didn't carry them because they are "too finicky for fit and need different sized straps". 

However, I have done a lot of reading on this board and elsewhere about the the Phi and I am convinced that they are my best choice - I like transparency, resolution and a solid bottom end. Did I make a mistake? 

...Well, we will find out soon as I should get them in about a week (after a 4-week wait). Thanks to all of your comments, I will take my time trying to find the best fit as I know it will be critical to getting the most out of them. I will share my comments once I get them dialed in. 

It sounds like the standard cable is pretty good. So I am hoping it does not need to be upgraded to get the most out of my system (DAVE and full Trifecta). Fair assumption?


----------



## FLTWS

spotforscott said:


> Been lurking here for awhile. Just getting into headphones. Tried many TOTL headphones at a Toronto headphone shop using a Chord DAVE (my DAC). They all had strengths and weaknesses and none of them completely grabbed me. I wanted to try Abyss Phi but headphone shop didn't carry them because they are "too finicky for fit and need different sized straps".
> 
> However, I have done a lot of reading on this board and elsewhere about the the Phi and I am convinced that they are my best choice - I like transparency, resolution and a solid bottom end. Did I make a mistake?
> 
> ...



Regarding the stock cable, it is truly excellent sounding but physically it is less flexible (stiffer) than most and doesn't always lay where you might want it to.

Regarding fit, read the instruction sheet that comes with it and view the video on their website. There are plenty of posts in this thread discussing different aspects of the fitting process.

Take your time and experiment. I've had my Phi almost 4 months. Of all the phones I own and several other TOTL's I've auditioned, only my HD800 is more comfortable than my Phi at this point. Unlike most phones I'm familiar with the Phi works better if used with a light clamping force.

Don't forget to go to the Abyss website and fill out and submit the form to get your extended warranty. Enjoy!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Joining the Abyss Fraternity, after hearing a pair at the Nashville Meet, I couldn’t get them off of my mind. Plan on spending a couple months getting to know them, then decide whether I want to upgrade to the Phi. What is the current wait time for the upgrade? 

Additionally, does anyone in the Thread have experience with the Heron 5 amp and the Abyss?


----------



## jlbrach

i too have a chord dave/blu2 combo with my phi....the amp or no amp question as bedeviled me for some time now....without the amp the sound is so clear,so detailed and so spacious but it lacks a bit of grunt....with the amp the grunt is there but detail and transparency are lacking.....i guess i have to wait for rob watts digital amp for the chord prodicts


----------



## draytonklammer

I'm stunned with how well Dave + Abyss keeps up with my new Focal Aria 936 loudspeakers.
I knew there was a reason I picked the Abyss over everything else I have tried.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Is anyone using a speaker amp (a la HE6) to drive their Abyss? If so, which amps and are you using a resistor box or going straight from the speaker taps?


----------



## ufospls2

I know a while back the Simaudio Moon 600i (V1 or V2) was a popular option in this thead, direct from the speaker taps. I haven't heard it personally, but now owning the Susvara as well the as Phi, when my wallet recuperates I'll definitely be looking into giving one a try.


----------



## mulder01

From memory the resistor box was for convenience (XLR plug on the front) and safety (making sure there is always some load across the speaker terminals).  So if you are happy to modify a cable (or possibly Joe could make a custom one?) and leave it always connected to the speaker taps, then you should be fine.
Again, from memory someone unplugged their Abyss with the amp switched OFF and still blew a fuse, so be extra careful.
Also, I think I remembered someone saying the resistor box degrades the sound.  Not sure how correct that is, and if so, how significant the effect is.

Probably not the right person to answer this question though as I just have a headphone amp... They really aren't that power hungry - especially the phi.  
If you already have a speaker amp you like though, it makes a lot of sense to go that route.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Thanks for the feedback, I may pick up a Mjolnir 2 and play with the input tubes a bit. Plenty of power, and I can customize the sound with different input tubes.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Okay, time to breath a bit of life into this Thread, my original, non-Phi, Abyss 1266 arrived today, and mein Got, what a headphone! I briefly listened too them at the Nashville Meet, noisy room, someone else’s head sized pair, and I was smitten. Now that I have a pair in my System (albeit with an amp ((Herron 5)), that is maxed out), with a sweet Vinshine R2R DAC, I am having copious eargasms. 

I want to pick up an amp with a bit more oomph, And to take some time discovering the 1266’s capabilities, then consider the Phi upgrade.


----------



## gonzalo1004es

I'm trying to decide between the Abyss Phi and Susvara. My main concen is how well they portray the timbres of acoustic instruments, as I only listen to classical music. for those that have listened both, which one would you say is more natural/accurate? I've read that the original Abyss was kinf of V-shaped, would you say that has improved?

Thanks!


----------



## innocentblood

hello, I have an opportunity to buy a previously opened set of Abyss Phi from a retailer. is there a way to tell the difference between a Phi model and a non-Phi model? the one that is up for sale is the Deluxe package. thank you for any pointers that you can give me


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Remove an ear pad and check the model engraving, will have the Phi symbol after 1266...


----------



## matthewhypolite (Mar 29, 2018)

draytonklammer said:


> Where is the notch for you right now?
> 
> Mine is at about 1-2 o' clock or so and I haven't heard better.
> Curious if I should mess around a bit more.





draytonklammer said:


> Yeah, it's amazing how many different settings I've enjoyed with the Abyss.
> 
> That being said, my favorite is with the notch at around 1-2 o' clock .



I too have my earpads at 1-2 o' clock, with a double headband and wirestrap mod. and frame slightly tilted inwards/outwards depending on how much bass i feel for at the time.

 

This configuration is the most comfortable i've felt the abyss and now i have no issues listening to them for hours at a time.



gonzalo1004es said:


> I'm trying to decide between the Abyss Phi and Susvara. My main concen is how well they portray the timbres of acoustic instruments, as I only listen to classical music. for those that have listened both, which one would you say is more natural/accurate? I've read that the original Abyss was kinf of V-shaped, would you say that has improved?
> 
> Thanks!



Yes i would say this has improved. The sound is more uniform and coherent whiles still retaining the excellent treble and bass.
I still need to get around to my abyss review, which i'll be looking to get up soon.


----------



## gonzalo1004es

matthewhypolite said:


> Yes i would say this has improved. The sound is more uniform and coherent whiles still retaining the excellent treble and bass.
> I still need to get around to my abyss review, which i'll be looking to get up soon.



Thanks, I look forward to you review!


----------



## ufospls2

gonzalo1004es said:


> I'm trying to decide between the Abyss Phi and Susvara. My main concen is how well they portray the timbres of acoustic instruments, as I only listen to classical music. for those that have listened both, which one would you say is more natural/accurate? I've read that the original Abyss was kinf of V-shaped, would you say that has improved?
> 
> Thanks!



I had a response all typed out and almost finished it, but I had to erase it completely. 

Without a doubt, you should try both if you can. It is such a personal preference. For acoustic, classical music I was going to say you might be better to go with the Susvara. However, I then put my Phi on my head and it changed my mind again. The more I listen to these two headphones the more I enjoy different their different attributes. I still think I prefer the Phi as my no compromises, just listen to music headphone, but the gap is very, very small. They both have things about them that make them so special, and such fun to listen to. 

The Phi is like a big concert hall for one, and the Susvara is like a cozy small jazz club, or theatre. It really just depends on your preference.


----------



## gonzalo1004es

ufospls2 said:


> I had a response all typed out and almost finished it, but I had to erase it completely.
> 
> Without a doubt, you should try both if you can. It is such a personal preference. For acoustic, classical music I was going to say you might be better to go with the Susvara. However, I then put my Phi on my head and it changed my mind again. The more I listen to these two headphones the more I enjoy different their different attributes. I still think I prefer the Phi as my no compromises, just listen to music headphone, but the gap is very, very small. They both have things about them that make them so special, and such fun to listen to.
> 
> The Phi is like a big concert hall for one, and the Susvara is like a cozy small jazz club, or theatre. It really just depends on your preference.


Thanks! I know that there's no substitute to listening to them, but there's no way to listen to the Abyss in Spain..., at least its great that they're bth in the same league...


----------



## Beolab (Mar 31, 2018)

mulder01 said:


> From memory the resistor box was for convenience (XLR plug on the front) and safety (making sure there is always some load across the speaker terminals).  So if you are happy to modify a cable (or possibly Joe could make a custom one?) and leave it always connected to the speaker taps, then you should be fine.
> Again, from memory someone unplugged their Abyss with the amp switched OFF and still blew a fuse, so be extra careful.
> Also, I think I remembered someone saying the resistor box degrades the sound.  Not sure how correct that is, and if so, how significant the effect is.
> 
> ...




I think we can all forget the talk about power figuers of an amp, it does not say anything on how it deliver its power or how it presenting the music.

I have tested nearly 25 amps during the last 2-3 years, and if the amp just can pull out 1,5-2 watts @ 46 Ohm you are perfectly fine with the power. Then the A current is another figure that not so many take in consideration of an amp.

What you cant read out from the specs is how the amp sound; if a gitarr sound like a violin or Frank Sinatra sound more as a piipy teenager, nyances sounds flat, and does not have the pre visceral sound, where the amp builds up a tension before the tone hits you etc etc..
What we do know is that a bigger amp often does sound more effortless, and can project the sound with more layers , finesse and greater control than a smaller amp with less power reserve, and more compromises dun on its design. . Not a rule, more a pointer.

The SimAudio Moon i-7 , new 600i V2 or the 700i is just 3 speaker amps that i highly recomend, one great thing is its 530 steped bit perfect optical e.volume, that makes it more gentle for headphones than most other amps on the market does.

Just a pointer in the right direction and one stone narrower to make the most out of your high end headphones. 

You can also drive them with small DAP / AQ Dragonfly driven by your iphone, take a listen and decide on what level you want your sound. 

It is a matter of budjet to spend and taste.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Beolab said:


> I think we can all forget the talk about power figuers of an amp, it does not say anything on how it deliver its power or how it presenting the music.
> 
> I have tested nearly 25 amps during the last 2-3 years, and if the amp just can pull out 1,5-2 watts @ 46 Ohm you are perfectly fine with the power. Then the A current is another figure that not so many take in consideration of an amp.
> 
> ...




Thanks, I was playing around with my Mojo and the AB 1266 earlier today and Frank did sound a bit congested and flat.


----------



## simorag

After a few months of ownership, still impressed with the Abyss Phi.

During this Easter break, I am having multiple relatively long listening stretches (3+ hours straight) and no signs of physical or listening fatigue ... 

I was a bit scared by the intimidating weight and appearance of the Abyss, also after reading some complaints about their fit and comfort, before getting them. I am happy to say that, at least for me, they are VERY comfortable. I especially like the fact that they are just barely touching my ears (and this is the fit I prefer for sound quality purposes as well), which is very nice because it prevents them to become hot or slightly sweaty due to sealing and/or pads pressure.

Another outstanding feature of the Phi to me is that they are a pleasure to listen whatever you play, and whatever mood you are in. They are great for immersive critical listening sessions of, say, an audiophile recording of a Beethoven quartet, and just as satisfying for a casual listening of crappy mp3 files or YouTube streaming of, e.g., EDM tracks.

Again, I was afraid that the Abyss / DAVE combo was very picky about what you feed it with, but, at least for me, this is not the case.

Now playing: Gentle Giant - Octopus (via YouTube )


----------



## FLTWS

While I only feed mine CD's, I agree with you on your other points. I keep coming back to Phi again and again over my other phones.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

simorag said:


> After a few months of ownership, still impressed with the Abyss Phi.
> 
> During this Easter break, I am having multiple relatively long listening stretches (3+ hours straight) and no signs of physical or listening fatigue ...
> 
> ...




I did the same over Easter, I’m blown away every time I listen. Everything from classical to the Stones. Taking  a break and listening to Dorati conduct Kodálay and Bartók, goosebump inducing sound!


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Thanks for the kind words!

Nice review of the AB-1266 Ph was just published at Headphone Guru.. http://headphone.guru/abyss-ab-1266-phi/


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Read Peter’s excellent review and tried find Frank Sinatra, Live at the Sands. Couldn’t find this particular album, I happened on an MQA recording, Nat King Cole at the Sands. Wow, the soundstage is enormous, the Horn Section was in the next room! The Abyss 1266 is truly the closest to speakers one can find in headphones, it blows the HD800 away.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Apr 3, 2018)

Is the abyss phi tonally fuller or thinner sounding than a properly driven HE-6?

How much of a difference is there either way?


----------



## Rayzilla

rsbrsvp said:


> Is the abyss phi tonally fuller or thinner sounding than a properly driven HE-6?
> 
> How much of a difference is there either way?


I don't have the Phi version but I do have an unmodded HE6 and I JUST picked up an Audio GD Master 9 so I can give you some information in that regard but it will have to wait until I go back to work next week because I leave my HE6 there. So I haven't tried my HE6 with the Master 9 yet.


----------



## hattrick15 (Apr 8, 2018)

I'm looking for a new headphone amp for my Abyss Phi headphones.  I'm currently using a Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar headphone amp fed by a Chord DAVE DAC.  The Pure BiPolar provides about 1W into 50 ohms in Class A.  I'm looking for something neutral and transparent (to hopefully maintain the transparency of the DAVE) that has more power to get the most out of the Phi's.  High quality is a higher priority than low cost (although I'm not up for something too unreasonable cost-wise).

Any suggestions?


----------



## MacedonianHero

hattrick15 said:


> I'm looking for a new headphone amp for my Abyss Phi headphones.  I'm currently using a Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar headphone amp fed by a Chord DAVE DAC.  The Pure BiPolar provides about 1W into 50 ohms in Class A.  I'm looking for something neutral and transparent (to hopefully maintain the transparency of the DAVE) that has more power to get the most out of the Phi's.  High quality is a higher priority than low cost (although I'm not up for something too unreasonable cost-wise).
> 
> Any suggestions?



FWIW, the DAVE will put more power into the Phi and an external amp isn't really needed as the DAVE does a brilliant job on its own. That said, the GS-X Mk2 (about 5.5W) is brilliant with them, but again, not really needed. Please note that most external amps will only take away from the neutrality / transparency from the DAVE.


----------



## hattrick15

MacedonianHero said:


> FWIW, the DAVE will put more power into the Phi and an external amp isn't really needed as the DAVE does a brilliant job on its own. That said, the GS-X Mk2 (about 5.5W) is brilliant with them, but again, not really needed. Please note that most external amps will only take away from the neutrality / transparency from the DAVE.



I was looking back through this thread.  Last November, you posted multiple times about how great the DAVE/GS-X Mk2 combo is.  Most others argued that it made the sound too bright and you argued that it was just very transparent.  Your comment to my post reads to me as if you aren't as strongly endorsing the GS-X Mk2 compared to when you posted in Nov.  

If I'm reading that right, is there a reason for this change on your part?  Or am I just reading your comments now incorrectly?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Well, damn, my self control crumbled like a stale cookie. Threw the Sylvania “Bad Boy” in and cued up Barbirroli, BPO recording of Mahler’s 9th (the 19th Century’s versión of the Beastie Boys), with the Abyss 1266 and was rewarded with the biggest head-stage I’ve ever heard, depth, tone, very beautiful, and neither the Tube, nor amp is broken in yet!

I know w the Boys and Girls on the Abyss Thread are going to mock me, but if you have champagne taste on a beer budget, I’ll take my Lyr 3 over your Wells and GSX’s.


----------



## Xecuter

If the lyr, wells and gs-x all cost as much as the lyr does. I would take the Lyr 3.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Xecuter said:


> If the lyr, wells and gs-x all cost as much as the lyr does. I would take the Lyr 3.



The new Lyr 3, combined with a Sylvania “Bad Boy” 6NS7, and the Abyss are giving me the most profound “hair raising” or “goose bumps” experience I’ve had with headphones. Yes, it is much less expensive, it and the Vinshine, R2R Reference DAC are hard to beat for natural tone and timbre.


----------



## ufospls2

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Well, damn, my self control crumbled like a stale cookie. Threw the Sylvania “Bad Boy” in and cued up Barbirroli, BPO recording of Mahler’s 9th (the 19th Century’s versión of the Beastie Boys), with the Abyss 1266 and was rewarded with the biggest head-stage I’ve ever heard, depth, tone, very beautiful, and neither the Tube, nor amp is broken in yet!
> 
> I know w the Boys and Girls on the Abyss Thread are going to mock me, but if you have champagne taste on a beer budget, I’ll take my Lyr 3 over your Wells and GSX’s.



You know, in terms of sound for your money:

 the original abyss used (for a good price)
 Lyr 3
 good cost/performance dac 

would probably be darn close to my first choice. I certainly am not going to mock you.


----------



## MacedonianHero

hattrick15 said:


> I was looking back through this thread.  Last November, you posted multiple times about how great the DAVE/GS-X Mk2 combo is.  Most others argued that it made the sound too bright and you argued that it was just very transparent.  Your comment to my post reads to me as if you aren't as strongly endorsing the GS-X Mk2 compared to when you posted in Nov.
> 
> If I'm reading that right, is there a reason for this change on your part?  Or am I just reading your comments now incorrectly?



The only way two deadly neutral items would sound bright is if you prefer a darker presentation.  I still very much endorse the GS-X Mk2...but the DAVE is certainly up to the task on its own and if you put in an amp that isn't up to the task will actually sound worse. The GS-X Mk2 adds some more oomph and headroom, but I've heard several other amps that when paired with the DAVE were worse (even though they had more power).


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Cultural Appropriation Warning, if this is an area of extreme sensitivity, please avert your eyes!!!

I have had my Abyss for about a month, ordered and received a new leather headband, and some great advice from Joe, the fit was greatly improved. Though I kept thinking, I can make the Abyss fit even better, especially for listening in bed. Thought, if I can spread out the weight distribution beyond leather headband, and improve “head grip,” that I’ll improve comfort and stability.

Thought about sacrificing one of my ball caps, then I had an epiphany, what about using a Yarmulke? So I ordered a nothing nice knit one, attached it to the leather band an wa la, much improved stability, comfort, the Abyss are locked into optimal position.

Pictures......


----------



## up late

schmick solution


----------



## Wildcatsare1

up late said:


> schmick solution




It works great at keeping the Abyss on top of my head, and it matches !


----------



## up late

perhaps it could be included as an accessory


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Wildcatsare1 said:


> It works great at keeping the Abyss on top of my head, and it matches !





up late said:


> perhaps it could be included as an accessory




Yes, for the Passover sale! ).


----------



## MAURO16164

I have a problem with the headband elastics. they are stretched and then now the headband is no longer 'steady on my head but goes to touch the metal bow. is there any economic alternative to replacing the original headband?


----------



## Xecuter

MAURO16164 said:


> I have a problem with the headband elastics. they are stretched and then now the headband is no longer 'steady on my head but goes to touch the metal bow. is there any economic alternative to replacing the original headband?



I'm wondering this too. I bought a short headband band and it only lasted a year before stretching. I don't want to have to keep buying new headbands.
You could buy some surgical hose and make new rubber loops, but it will look a bit DIY


----------



## MAURO16164

my only thought is to cut a small piece of rubber and then paste with Attack Gel hoping that holds up the pressure. otherwise you have to unscrew the part of the headband where the rubber ring is located and replace it with a similar one.


----------



## FLTWS

I don't know if it will make any difference (and I've only had mine 4 and a half months) but I get the best fit for my noggin with the metal headband full extended out and with as much full forward angle as it allows for (which isn't much). But when I'm not listening I always push the to parts back together tightly and hang it by metal headband. Maybe this gives the O rings a chance to return closer to new. I'll know better at the end of the first full year of use.


----------



## Beolab

FLTWS said:


> I don't know if it will make any difference (and I've only had mine 4 and a half months) but I get the best fit for my noggin with the metal headband full extended out and with as much full forward angle as it allows for (which isn't much). But when I'm not listening I always push the to parts back together tightly and hang it by metal headband. Maybe this gives the O rings a chance to return closer to new. I'll know better at the end of the first full year of use.




My Abyss is since late 2014 and a tip is to always hang them in the metal frame, and once in a while greace them in with some rubber oil to maintain the elasity of the rubber. 

Mine feels like brand new. 

I got 4 pairs in reserve just in case also and a few short headbands.


----------



## ra990

Auditioning the Phi and have a little impressions thread going on reddit, if anyone is interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/8dre65/its_about_to_be_a_great_weekend/


----------



## FLTWS

I checked it out. Just a note, I've noticed, especially when playing around with rotating the ear cups, good solid contact all the way around the rim to the driver housing is very important. A thin gap between the plastic(?) hubs holes and the metal pegs on the driver housing can happen. It can sometimes happen even if I think I've snapped each peg well, at one spot or another. These gaps if they occur can be seen if held up to a light and looked at edgewise. That could cause a buzz or a slightly off bass response in my experience.


----------



## nachocheese70

ra990 said:


> Auditioning the Phi and have a little impressions thread going on reddit, if anyone is interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/8dre65/its_about_to_be_a_great_weekend/


 
I ran my Phi through all the audiocheck.net tests and no rattle at all.


----------



## ra990

nachocheese70 said:


> I ran my Phi through all the audiocheck.net tests and no rattle at all.


Hey, thanks so much for trying and reporting back. I think the drivers on the rental unit I received had just recently been replaced, so they need to settle in a bit. I have to keep the volume on the tests pretty low to prevent rattles. I'm definitely interested in purchasing them, so good to know other units don't have that issue.


----------



## ra990 (Apr 23, 2018)

Here's my summary of all the TOTL headphones I've tried. I'm not a professional reviewer, so I'll just speak in words that make sense to me...

Sennheiser HD800S - the soundstage was unlike anything I had heard at the time, but the bass was lacking for a TOTL headphone. It was great for acoustic, classical, jazz, but anything heavy like rock or rap, I didn't really enjoy on them. Sold these to get the HE1000v2.

HE1000v2 - from deep bass to crystal highs, very nice sounding. Does nothing wrong, but to me, nothing really stood out either. I was initially blown away by them because they were my first high-end planar magnetic headphones and it's the first time I experienced bass like this. The sound stage was fantastic and the bass went deep and was accurate. Comfort was fantastic, I could wear them all day. But, it was tough to really connect with the music for some reason, it wasn't engaging enough to keep me excited. They've been described as laid back and I have to agree. I got bored of them quickly.

Focal Utopia - beautiful tone across the frequency range, a very close-up and intimate sound stage, pinpoint imaging accuracy, subdued but very accurate bass response. Very nice detail retrieval, but organic, not overly revealing. Build quality is top notch, comfort is fantastic. Paired with my Woo Audio WA8, it's a keeper. The WA8 adds a nice warmth to the low end, compensating for the subdued bass. The intimate soundstage is actually something that I enjoy at times, depending on the music.

Abyss 1266 Phi - this headphone is in another league from all the ones above. I admire how different and daring the design is. At first, I thought these would be a pain to wear, but they might actually be even more comfortable than the others because, when worn properly, they don't put any pressure around your ears. I like the fact that tweaking the fit of the headphones gives me a lot of control over their sound. I can control the bass extension and amount by simply bringing them closer to my head to lower and adding more space between them and my ears for more bass extension. And what bass...it's uncanny how life-like it is. Listening to thunder on these is like hearing it in real life. The sound stage is massive when called for. Binaural recordings really trip my brain up because it just doesn't sound like the sound is coming from the headphones. I can actually hear the sound of the air in recordings. I don't know how else to explain it. I get a sense of the room from the quiet parts because there's so much detail in the soundstage. Their presence, earth rumbling bass, the airy soundstage, the comfort, the physicality of the music is unbelievable. The resolution these provide is at another level. The level of detail you hear across the frequency range and especially the bass region is unmatched. These are the most revealing headphones I've ever heard. NOTE: The pair I got has some issues passing frequency sweep tests without creating rattles, so I am having to keep the volume at a point where I don't get any rattles, which is a volume I'd describe as just under loud. Even then, I'm simply blown away and will be acquiring a pair soon. Also, I'm a little surprised how well these are driven out of my Hugo 2 and even the Woo WA8. They have a reputation of needing a really good amp, but my two little portable amps are doing a great job at getting perfectly listenable levels of volume out of them.


----------



## innocentblood

I recently got a pair of the Phi and I am still trying to find my best fit. I keep going over this statement on the website: 

_... these headphones are designed not to clamp your head, but rather float atop and loosely touch your ears..._

this may sound silly but I don't really understand what *float atop and loosely touch your ears* is supposed to mean or look like. I've currently positioned the pads to be at 11 O'Clock and I can feel them lightly pressed against my head and when I am unconsciously nodding my head as I am listening to music on these cans, I can feel the pads slightly shifting around my ears. is this normal? I also tried placing the pads at the 10 O'Clock position and when I look up and down while wearing these cans, they seem to slide around more than I would like them to. so I am keep the pads at the 11 O'Clock position where it seems to be more "secure" and will withstand some reasonable amount of head-banging while listening to music.

any pics would help to illustrate how this "*float atop and loosely touch your ears" *is supposed to look like . thank you for helping me


----------



## ra990 (Apr 24, 2018)

innocentblood said:


> any pics would help to illustrate how this "*float atop and loosely touch your ears" *is supposed to look like . thank you for helping me



Yes, they should lightly touch your ear, but they should allow a little bit of air in too. I have the pads in the 10 o'clock position looking at the right one, frame is extended out all the way. Like you'd want to easily pass a credit card between your head and the headphones, minimal contact. I also have them angled back so, they shape better around the back of my head and open up in the front a bit. That angle is what I adjust usually when trying to control the bass, tilted towards the front for less and tilted towards the back and allow the front more gap for increased bass. I usually wear a hat to allow a little more of a gap between the headphones and my head since this increases the bass extension even more. I'll PM you some pics. It's hard to show in pictures unless I have someone else take them. The underside leading towards the back of the headphones have the biggest gap, to the point where I can slide my pinky in and touch the back of my earlobe, the front and top side makes the most contact of all the sides.

How are you enjoying them so far?


----------



## innocentblood

@ra990 thank you very much for the pics - I will continue to adjust mine. that sentence about being able to pass a credit card through the gap between the pad and my ear helps me to visualise how I should position the headphones atop my head. I really like how the cans sound and I'm just trying to ensure I am wearing them the right way to get the best out of them. having said that, I just can't believe how much time and effort it takes to just be able to wear them the "right way"  you can't just slip these on I suppose! but I do believe that the initial time and effort will pay off


----------



## FLTWS (Apr 24, 2018)

My ear pads securely touch my skull and jaw area all the way around with no gap but no compression either and getting there was highly interactive with the rotated position of the pads. When I got it right for me I knew it right away, I could turn my head left / right with no slippage unless I whipped it quickly. The headband pressure was soft, almost like a trampoline if I bobbed my head up / down quickly.

The opposite of lightly for me head is my Senn HD600, it's a head vice with a lot of top down and side of the skull pad pressure.

Of course it will all vary the shape and size of one's head. And with use the pads seemed to start to conform to my head better.


----------



## nachocheese70

I did the zip tie + Velcro mod to allow the headband wrap around my head more. With this, the Abyss is by far the most comfortable headphones I ever had. At least for me, weight is really not an issue (I’ve worn motorcycle helmets for hours at a time, and the Abyss is very light compared to even open face helmets). 

I believe I have my pads set at 10 o’clock; the thickest part of the pad is behind and under my ear, where incidentally the largest gap naturally occurs. If I move the pads forward so they just slightly touch my ear, I get the most natural bass response. If I slide them backwards, at least for me, this greatly increases the low to mid bass levels, but causes it to bloom more (normally the bass is extremely well controlled. It could be this reduces the sealing of the pad with my face, but I believe it could also be creating a resonant space that amplifies a narrow bass frequency.


----------



## ra990

nachocheese70 said:


> I did the zip tie + Velcro mod to allow the headband wrap around my head more. With this, the Abyss is by far the most comfortable headphones I ever had. At least for me, weight is really not an issue (I’ve worn motorcycle helmets for hours at a time, and the Abyss is very light compared to even open face helmets).



Is there a link to this mod somewhere? I'm still trying to get through the several hundred pages of this thread and don't think I've come across it yet.


----------



## nachocheese70




----------



## mulder01

ra990 said:


> Hey, thanks so much for trying and reporting back. I think the drivers on the rental unit I received had just recently been replaced, so they need to settle in a bit. I have to keep the volume on the tests pretty low to prevent rattles. I'm definitely interested in purchasing them, so good to know other units don't have that issue.



Do you get rattles when they're on your head?  A bad / no seal could potentially be causing it - if you just sit the headphones on the stand and let them play with nothing in front of the drivers they will distort pretty bad so if the mic you're measuring with doesn't get much of a seal that could be a cause.  I get distortion with lower powered portables as well but it is a non issue on something with more head room.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Is the rattle really from a bad seal, or is that something that would definitely be a defect?

Can people here replicate the rattling by rotating the earpads?


----------



## ra990

mulder01 said:


> Do you get rattles when they're on your head?  A bad / no seal could potentially be causing it - if you just sit the headphones on the stand and let them play with nothing in front of the drivers they will distort pretty bad so if the mic you're measuring with doesn't get much of a seal that could be a cause.  I get distortion with lower powered portables as well but it is a non issue on something with more head room.


Yea, with the unit I currently have the rattle occurs even when they're on my head until I adjust the fit and volume till it goes away. I find it seems to be getting better, it may be a breaking in/settling thing. I have a loaner pair that may have had their drivers swapped out recently. In any case, I have just officially placed my order today, so I'll be getting a brand new set in a few weeks!


----------



## ra990 (Apr 25, 2018)

Has anybody tried earpad mods?

I found that opening up the front a little more than the toe in mechanism allows really kicks up the sub/bass even more. Simply putting a finger in to make a little space between the earpad and my head has a dramatic effect. I am currently putting soft earbud tips between the earpad and my head to make a little indentation, right in front of my ears at the level of my eyes, and the results are pretty damn amazing. I wonder if putting some ports on the earpads would have the same effect? Maybe perforated pads would have a similar effect as well? Obviously not suitable for all music, but might be interesting to try for music that benefits from really heavy bass.


----------



## ufospls2

ra990 said:


> Yea, with the unit I currently have the rattle occurs even when they're on my head until I adjust the fit and volume till it goes away. I find it seems to be getting better, it may be a breaking in/settling thing. I have a loaner pair that may have had their drivers swapped out recently. In any case, *I have just officially placed my order today, so I'll be getting a brand new set in a few weeks!*



Yessssssss. Hope you love them as much as you have been dude!


----------



## MacedonianHero

ufospls2 said:


> Yessssssss. Hope you love them as much as you have been dude!



Definitely one of my all-time favourites now!


----------



## Rayzilla (Apr 29, 2018)

Can I get a clarification /confirmation on the alternative cables that can be used with the Abyss? My understanding is that the connection type is mini XLR and that cables that work on Audeze and XMF headphones will also work with the Abyss. It's this correct?

But then I also recently heard that there is mini XLR with 4 pin and 3 pin. Abyss uses 3 pin while Audeze and XMF uses 4 pin.

Another question, are the adaptors that are used at the other end to connect to the amp interchangeable between the different brands? 

Basically I am happy with the stock cable but for convenience around the home, I wouldn't mind picking up a used short cable.


----------



## mulder01

I believe the connector on the headphone end is unique to the abyss.  Amp end you will be able to use any brand of adapter.

I got a shorter version of the stock abyss cable made up with a 3.5mm stereo plug for home use, to save from using adapters and having to roll up a cable that was too long.  Joe can do custom cables if you want to stick with the abyss brand cable.


----------



## Xecuter

Some of the AKG use the 3pin mini xlr as well. Not unique to Abyss.

Currently selling my Original Lite Abyss, if anyone is interested please PM me. currently listed on SNA. Mint condition just heading into speakers.
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/245492-fs-eoi-original-jps-abyss-1266-headphones/

Will obviously drop price for headfi locals.


----------



## Rayzilla

mulder01 said:


> I believe the connector on the headphone end is unique to the abyss.  Amp end you will be able to use any brand of adapter.
> ...


You just saved me some money and trouble. I was going to search for some Audeze fitted cables. Thanks.


----------



## cradon

For anyone interested, I’m selling my DHC Prion4 Cable for Abyss. Feel free to PM me with any questions.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/double-helix-prion-4-for-abyss.878353/


----------



## nachocheese70 (May 23, 2018)

Rayzilla said:


> Can I get a clarification /confirmation on the alternative cables that can be used with the Abyss? My understanding is that the connection type is mini XLR and that cables that work on Audeze and XMF headphones will also work with the Abyss. It's this correct?
> 
> But then I also recently heard that there is mini XLR with 4 pin and 3 pin. Abyss uses 3 pin while Audeze and XMF uses 4 pin.
> 
> ...



I ended up terminating my own cables. Abyss uses mini 3 pin XLR, and I went with a single main 4 pin XLR. The left side pin 3 goes to main XLR pin 1. The left side pin 1 goes to main XLR pin 2. The left side pin 2 is unused. The right side pin 3 goes to main XLR pin 3. The right side pin 1 goes to main XLR pin 4. Like left side, pin 2 is not used. If the main connection is single ended, then I believe left and right side pin 3 and


----------



## rumina

Another great amp for the Abyss Phi. I could get a used 3 year old Pathos Inpol Remix class a amp for 1/3 of his new price . I was looking since a time for a good low power class a hybrid amp, had i my mind that should be a great match for the Abyss Phi.


 

It's a hybrid class a poweramp with "only" 10 watt output into 8 ohm, i measured a power consumption of 105 watt. So no pseudo class a lable her, amp gets warm but not hot, fine designed. The amp is dead silence (even via a Ether c)  direct out of the speaker binds. The tubes are two ec88/6922, at the moment are mullard tubes in the amp. Volume controle is made via a 2 x Burr Brown PGA2310, a fine choice. Mine comes with the onboard Hidac option (Burr Brown 1793), didn't used it till now.

What's realy nice is that the soundstage via the Phi opens in front of you (in contrast to a lot amps that are head centered). This in combinaton with a nice wide an exact stage in all 3 dimension gets you a even more loudspeaker like listening expierence. The Phi is allready a king in this manner, with this amps it's beautiful enhanced. The second thing i like a lot (personal taste imo) that the mids get a tad more presence. That's also the case with the Pass Sony Vfet amp, both are a tad mid centric. I think thats also a effect of some harmonics from the tubes/vfets.

The bass goes deep and is well and nice structured but the amp is not as super speedy and dominant in the bass part as the Dynahi. Don't think that the amp sounds like a classic low cost tube amp. The sound is not muddy or rounded, it's excat and fast. This amp delivers a very holographic and natural presentation. Imo the Pass Sony Vfet has a tad more "tubby" sound than the Pathos. The Dynahi is the technical king, extreme neutral, super speedy and detailed with only a touch warmth. For me the Pathos has a nice balance of resolution, authority and musicality. Sound wise in the middel between the Pass Sony Vfet and the Dynahi.

If you have the chance to hear this amp (or maybe the inpol ear, think they are quite similar) it's a great pleasure. You can get the orginal Pathos Inpol Remix (not MK2) often used for a great price (hard to find a good matching high efficent loudspeaker for it). It's a fine made amp (technical and optical) that performce very good.


----------



## MAURO16164

to drive the Abyss I use the sugden a21se connected to the terminals. 30 watts in pure class A. big amp!


----------



## rumina

That's a nice amp, love pure class a amps since my first krell ksa-100. Love the neslon pass desings, my diy f5t is a 32 kg monster .


----------



## Thenewguy007

rumina said:


> That's a nice amp, love pure class a amps since my first krell ksa-100. Love the neslon pass desings, my diy f5t is a 32 kg monster .



 How's the DIY F5 vs the Pathos for the Abyss?


----------



## rumina

It's not a easy question. The diy pass f5(t) amplifiers have some tonal variations, depends on the parts inside and the size of the power supply. I made my F5 Turbo with Toshiba Mosfet 2SK1530/2SJ201 and Toshiba 2SK170/SJ74, they have a more musical approche vs the IRF9240/240 Mosfet which is more analytic/neutral. With a beefy 272'000 uf clc power supply it's a rock hard hitting 45 watt class a amp, similar control like the Dynahi. The sound is smooth but not as detailed as the Pathos, it's a quite fun oriented amp, both the Vfet and the Pathos have a more delicate, fine and neutral sound tuning.

But it's not a F5, my F5 Turbo (https://www.head-fi.org/gallery/album/neslon-pass-f5t-integrated.1154489/) consumes 240 watt power, i used it once with a voltage divider but it's imo to much for headphones . For the Phi i would (want) build a standard F5 (with normal sized crc power supply) with lower voltage (around 24-26v), that should be a fine match. It's one of my open projects for the future because i have some fine Toshiba Mosfet left. But next comes a kg smd dynalo (if my hands are steady enough), then a kg cfa2 and a pass whammy pcb is also on the way.


----------



## Beolab

Thats always the fine line, if the amp is detailed , and exact correct , dry fast and controlled perfect, it cant be as musically vivid at the same time, it is impossible, so either you got two amps, one Perfect correct and one Musical amp, or one amp that is somewhere in the middle, but then it is more a all-around great amp, not a high end.   

The two characteristics just don't even up, like black materia, and cant live under same roof it is impossible in my book.  

So i have eneded up with a very musical amp that moves you; the new 600i V2 ( special version in all black with the extra option Blue Matrix LED display for lover noise level, and that ups the price by 1000 dollar) and also ordered  the EAR V12 ,  50 watt amp for correctness and relatively great musicality. 

Will sell my new in for test 3 weeks old Ican Pro if someone is interested.


----------



## rumina

That is true, either


Beolab said:


> Thats always the fine line, if the amp is detailed , and exact correct , dry fast and controlled perfect, it cant be as musically vivid at the same time, it is impossible, so either you got two amps, one Perfect correct and one Musical amp, or one amp that is somewhere in the middle, but then it is more a all-around great amp, not a high end.
> 
> The two characteristics just don't even up, like black materia, and cant live under same roof it is impossible in my book.
> 
> ...



Excat, i often see the quote of "this is the best headphone/amp/xxx" in the world - that's only a wish but didn't exist in the real word. Thus i have different audio gear and can choose depending of my mood, the album or the lunar calendar .


----------



## jscmd2000

anyone have real experience with pass labs pha-1/Dave/Phi?


----------



## matthewhypolite

Hi All,

I've finally finished my Abyss Phi review and comparison in my *TOTL Headphone Comparison* thread. I've extracted the Phi bits and posted here but please feel free to go check out the full thread.





*Summary*

The Abyss Phi is JPS Labs' upgrade to the original abyss, costing $1500 for the upgrade but remains at the same retail price as the original. Is it worth the upgrade? Yes!. How much better is it than the original? Let's explore that answer: The efficiency of the cans has been improved, volume nob reduced about 10%, gain changed from high to low, Low gain now sounds better out of the Lau. Detail retrieval has been substantially improved, micro detail is amazing, notes can now be heard that were not previously heard out of the original Abyss. Note decay stretches on for miles, the very last whispers and breaths on notes can now be heard bringing a level of immersion and realism that was not previously present. There's more space and greater soundstage with improved instrument placement.

During the first hour of use, the bottomless bass was a bit recessed compared to original but as the headphones burnt in this was no longer the case. The bass is tight and precise and very much still powerful and deep. Treble has been reined in and put under control. The original could sometimes seem fatiguing and a bit sharp on the treble in certain tracks, but the phi brings the treble under control and smooths out the bite. This makes for a much more natural and enjoyable listen.

During my first hour of use, these were my thoughts: "I am thoroughly impressed by what these cans are doing straight out of the box, I shudder to think what this monster is going to turn into post 300hrs." After the 250hr mark, these are my thoughts: "I shudder at how good these headphones have become once burnt in "

Once burnt in, these cans are truly something special. They have a natural life-like tone, the original could sometimes be fatiguing in certain genres and listening lengths, but the Phi is just amazing. Natural, neutral, clean, precise, powerful, wonderful sounding cans. They've improved every aspect of the original IMO, and overall it's simply the best headphones I've ever heard. I previously said that about the Utopia, as it did a lot of different things really well all at the same time. The Abyss Phi IMO has now taken that crown. There were certain genres I'd reach for the Utopia as it performed better than the original abyss, but since getting the Phi, I've hardly reached for the Utopia, and that is saying something. JPS Labs has taken an already amazing headphone, with few audible flaws and a bit lacking for certain genres, and has made it an excellent all round can whiles still retaining what made the original so special in the first place. Well done Joe, Well done. 


_See *testing notes* for more detailed impressions of various genres and tracks_

*Scaling / Tubes:*

As good as these headphones are through a good solid state amp, on a high end tube amp………they become even more amazing, truly magical sound. The abyss is a very clean and powerful headphone, and don’t color the music like other cans do (LCD3, HEK, and even the Utopia), but tubes add a layer of warmth that compliments what the Phi already offers. The improvements on tubes are so substantial that genres in which the Utopia would typically have a clear edge is now narrowed. For instance, in Rock/Metal where the Abyss is at its weakest, I would typically always reach for the Utopia, now I find myself reaching for either can depending on my mode and the tonality I am feeling for at the time. If I'm feeling for a more relaxed, lush and fun listen, Utopia. But when I wanna get up close and intimate with the music and feeling for a more speaker-like and open sound, Phi.  The Phi sounds absolutely magical! on tubes. They definitely scale more on a high end tube amp than the utopia and folks with such an amp are going to adore the Phi. The Utopia needs the right tube combination to sound truly magical on tubes, but the Phi play nice with all the different tubes I've tried thus far. Its more neutral and  natural presentation allow it to more naturally mate with various tubes and thus will be the better choice for tube rollers. If you feel for more heft, add it, sounds great on the Phi. More clarity and resolution? Roll those tubes in, they will sound great on the Phi. Got some lesser quality stock tubes? No problem, all sound great on the Phi.

On the Lau, I would need both the Utopia and the Abyss in my collection, as they both did what they did really well in the respective genres that suit them. But with the WA33 EE + NOS Tubes + Phi combination…….I can see myself living without the Utopia…..

*Comfort*

Same as Original : These cans in stock form have the worse comfort of any headphones I've ever used. The major issue is there is no vertical adjustment and you're required to do a lot of fiddling and tweaking to get it to fit your head just right. The fit also dramatically affects sound quality. I'd say that the head-band mod for these cans to add vertical adjustment is mandatory for a comfortable listening experience. It takes it from being a really awkward fit, to a pretty comfortable one. It will still have a lot of weight though, but manageable once modified.

*Build Quality*

Same as Original : The abyss is built like a tank. Metal throughout and feel like it can be run over by a truck. Handling these you'll at no time think "they can break". It does however have a very polarizing look. I personally love it.

*Amp Volume*

11-12 o'clock

*Rating Breakdown / Tone Wheel*



Spoiler: Click to show details



 


*
Ratings Breakdown (All Headphones) (NEW)*


*Best At Genre (NEW)
*


*Testing Notes / Tracks (NEW)
*



*https://redirect.viglink.com/?forma...olite | Head-Fi.org&txt=TestingNotes v1.0.pdfClick here to download Testing Notes PDF*

*Photos*


----------



## draytonklammer

How would one go about performing the headband mod that brought your score up so much higher for the Abyss Phi?


----------



## mulder01

Looks like just 2 headbands from the photo - one in the original spot and one cable tied below it to lift them higher.  Only an advantage if height is an issue for you though


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## draytonklammer

I am incredibly tempted to try to duplicate that with my spare headband.
I feel like the headphone ear cups end up resting on the top of my ears sometimes and wouldn't mind trying to fix it.


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## matthewhypolite

draytonklammer said:


> How would one go about performing the headband mod that brought your score up so much higher for the Abyss Phi?



Same headband mod was used on the original. 



draytonklammer said:


> I am incredibly tempted to try to duplicate that with my spare headband.
> I feel like the headphone ear cups end up resting on the top of my ears sometimes and wouldn't mind trying to fix it.



Exactly! That's exactly what happens to me, it is very uncomfortable the ear cups resting on the top of my ears. The short headband fixed this a bit, but still an issue. Also I don't like how the default configuration causes the headphone to rest flat on my head, I find the curved fit provided by other headphones to be more comfortable. The mod I use solves both issues, I can dial in the height exactly where it needs to be, and using a 2nd headband at the base only attached via the wire strap, gives that curve.

The combination of the 2 pretty much solves the comfort issues. Also, the mod is easy to do, and easy to undo if you don't like it. No harm in trying.

I originally did the mod with a single headband detached from the frame. But leaving an extra headband in the original spot attached to the frame added some stability vs the single. 

Heres a couple photos to hopefully illustrate what I described:


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## matthewhypolite

If you need more details on how to go about it let me know, I can do up a guide or maybe a video. It basically involves using the wire straps in the specific positions, and adjusting them bit by bit until you get the right fit for you head. Once thats dialed in, I just clip the excess wire strap so it looks neat.

I know that mod has been replicated using velcro as well to make it easier to adjust. But since I found the perfect height, don't need to change it again, so i just stuck with wire straps.


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## draytonklammer

I think I have some spare velcro somewhere.
I might see if I can give it a go today.

Thanks for the help and close up picture.


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## matthewhypolite

draytonklammer said:


> I think I have some spare velcro somewhere.
> I might see if I can give it a go today.
> 
> Thanks for the help and close up picture.



No Problem, let me know how it goes.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Pictures from High End 2018 in Munich Germany...


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## ufospls2

Joe Skubinski said:


> Pictures from High End 2018 in Munich Germany...



Are those new ear pads Joe? They look similar to Diana's with the perforations. Colour me interested...


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## matthewhypolite

ufospls2 said:


> Are those new ear pads Joe? They look similar to Diana's with the perforations. Colour me interested...



Ouuu, interest piqued.


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## FLTWS

I notice little gaps in the plastic frame I don't see on my Phi.


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## fredfung28

If it is better than the old pad, I’m interested to buy one pair!


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## FLTWS

Better or different? I'd buy a pair just for comparison.
I wonder if the frame design change with the little gaps is to allow for more uniform contact to reduce possible gaps to the driver housing?


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## Joe Skubinski

New 1266 pads are coming in July, Can order from the ABYSS website or from your dealer. They are slightly deeper and softer, and offer a bit larger soundstage.
Will let you know when available.


----------



## FLTWS

Joe Skubinski said:


> New 1266 pads are coming in July, Can order from the ABYSS website or from your dealer. They are slightly deeper and softer, and offer a bit larger soundstage.
> Will let you know when available.



Yessssssssssss!!!


----------



## matthewhypolite

Joe Skubinski said:


> New 1266 pads are coming in July, Can order from the ABYSS website or from your dealer. They are slightly deeper and softer, and offer a bit larger soundstage.
> Will let you know when available.


----------



## ufospls2

Joe Skubinski said:


> New 1266 pads are coming in July, Can order from the ABYSS website or from your dealer. They are slightly deeper and softer, and offer a bit larger soundstage.
> Will let you know when available.



Any details on pricing at this point? Or is that info coming at a later date closer to release? The original pads were/are a bit on the expensive side so I'm hoping these are closer to Dianas pads in cost ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## bozebuttons (May 18, 2018)

Joe Skubinski said:


> New 1266 pads are coming in July, Can order from the ABYSS website or from your dealer. They are slightly deeper and softer, and offer a bit larger soundstage.
> Will let you know when available.



Joe

Will the new pads ship with new headphones ordered after july or will they  be optional?


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## Wildcatsare1

@Joe Skubinski, first,looking forward to giving the new pads for a spin, second, so how was the Bavarian Single Malt?!?!?


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## Thenewguy007

People shouldn't forget the all velour custom earpads that Joe made a few months back.

I think only one person owned them.


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## ufospls2

Thenewguy007 said:


> People shouldn't forget the all velour custom earpads that Joe made a few months back.
> 
> I think only one person owned them.



As far as I remember it was Beolab and they were Alcantara. He special ordered them I think, a one off.


----------



## matthewhypolite

I don't like velour, but Alcantara... I'd pay for that.


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## Joe Skubinski (May 18, 2018)

bozebuttons said:


> Joe
> 
> Will the new pads ship with new headphones ordered after july or will they  be optional?


They will ship with new orders going forward.



ufospls2 said:


> Any details on pricing at this point? Or is that info coming at a later date closer to release?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Unfortunately they will not be inexpensive. 



Wildcatsare1 said:


> @Joe Skubinski, first,looking forward to giving the new pads for a spin, second, so how was the Bavarian Single Malt?!?!?


Even though it wasn't aged smooth it kept me coming back for more.


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## drew911d

Dangit!  Now I'm gonna have another upgrade to look forward to...


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## Rayzilla (May 19, 2018)

For those of you with a hot spot on the apex of your head OR with the ear pads sitting too low, I suggested an easy solution that works for me but you will need to find a squarish foam pad about an inch in thickness. You will cut a circle in the centre of it, which takes the pressure off of the apex and spreads it around the rim of the circle of the sponge. It's not the most attractive but I can wear my Abyss for hours with feeling any discomfort at the top of my head. I'll try to take a picture later.


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## draytonklammer

matthewhypolite said:


> No Problem, let me know how it goes.



I am still getting used to the way it fits, but so far it feels more secure and it's nice not having the headphones rest on the tops of my ears.
I think I like it though.
Luckily I had some of the Velcro wraps coming in the mail, so I am using those in the same form as your picture.


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## ra990

Does anyone know the mini xlr 3pin configuration for the 1266? Haven't found a definitive answer in the thread


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The AB-1266 plug wiring at the headphone mini 3 pin XLR.. pin 1 is negative, and pin 3 is positive (pin 2 n/c)


----------



## Beolab

ufospls2 said:


> As far as I remember it was Beolab and they were Alcantara. He special ordered them I think, a one off.



Yes i did a special ordered on the one off Abyss Alcantara pads , they look and sounds great, slight more resolution, but slight lighter overall but, great to have on some albums / recordings where they excel .


----------



## simorag (May 25, 2018)

Over the last couple of weeks, I had the chance to try at home two high-end aftermarket cables for my Abyss Phi, namely the Danacable Lazuli Reference (thank you, @vtvu!) and the Double Helix Cables Prion4 (courtesy of fellow audiophile @_gamma_).





I am considering a replacement of the stock JPS cable mainly for two reasons: first, I don’t like its looks and ergonomics, and, second, I am looking for ways to solve the sibilance issue I am still having (while much reduced after some efforts in other areas of my system) on some female vocal tracks.

I was a bit skeptical about how audible the effect of headphone cables would have been, especially considering I am far from having golden ears, so I was prepared to hear negligible or no differences at all (also given the good reputation of the stock JPS cable), and stay satisfied with an improvement on the aesthetics and handling side.

Obviously, I was wrong.

Since the very first listening, it was very easy to pick the main changes provided by the Lazuli or Prion4 to the “baseline” Phi signature with the JPS.

To put it simple, the Lazuli was markedly warmer while the Prion4 was clearly more detailed and grain-free.

As long as the listening time and tracks / genres variability increased, the comparative character of the three cables became more delineated, and it was easier to articulate more, on top of the blunt distinction above.

Trying to categorize the outcome of my experience, here are some notes.

For the sake of clarity, all three cables provided a tremendous sound quality, and the differences, while clearly detectable in a critical listening mode, are in form of nuances, at least for my sensitivity.

*Look and Feel*

Both Lazuli and Prion4 exude high-level handcraft.

I prefer the Lazuli by a fair margin, because it is very fat and satisfying to handle, yet not too heavy and has great flexibility. Also, I like that it has an Y-shaped sheathing that makes my rig look more clean, compared to the two-cord design of the JPS and Prion4.

The stock JPS looks cheap in comparison to the other two, and I don’t like its quite stiff, plasticky and sticky sheathing.



*Bass*

The bass is one of the areas where the differences were easiest to detect.

The Lazuli bass is gorgeously deep and rich of harmonics, very full while remaining under control and not overwhelming. It has the longest decay and lesser speed of the bunch, with very pleasing results on the right tracks.

The Prion4 bass is extremely deep, but also extremely tight. You get a nice punch, and very easy to follow double-bass (or electric bass) lines, while in some cases you miss the richness and bloom of the Lazuli.

The JPS sits in between the two, and it is more aligned to my tastes. It is full and rich enough where you expect it to be, while remaining extremely fast and impactful. The signature visceral impact of the Abyss is best rendered with the stock JPS cable in my opinion.

*Midrange*

Here, the Lazuli is the winner for me because it provides the right amount of warmth to the Phi, while remaining resolving and detailed enough. The vocals, for example, have more body and flesh to the bones, and the wooden instruments are richer, more palpable and ... woody.

Also, the presence of vocals / solo instruments is enhanced, due to a more forward display.

The main difference I could detect between the JPS and the Prion4 was about detail retrieval, which is extreme, almost spooky at times, on the Prion4, which was also slightly more liquid, grain-free.

Both Prion4 and JPS share a neutral / cold-ish midrange, where the Prion4 further accentuates the analytical character of the Phi.

*Trebles*

Here I preferred the Prion4. It was the only one to almost completely dissolve my idiosyncrasy with sibilant passages / digital glare, and has an extension and smoothness that makes plucked instruments such as guitar, harpsichord sound heavenly, while on the lean side.

Between the slightly warmer Lazuli and the more neutral JPS I could not decide which I liked most, both cables are very good indeed.



*Resolution, Transparency and Detail*

This is another area where I would put the Prion4 as the winner. I was able to hear more easily details, background noises. Articulation of low-level vocal speech was more straightforward. I would say that the Prion4 is almost hyper-realistic, in that it really grabs your attention on a lot of things you have not noticed before on well-known tracks and that would be hardly detectable in a live listening. Really exciting for an analytical type of listener (like me), and perhaps a bit fatiguing for people who want to just enjoy the music flow.

The JPS is also a detail and transparency champion, and, overall, I was not missing too much the Prion4 when I came back to the JPS.

The Lazuli portrays a more cohesive and unified presentation, with more blended details, and the air between the instruments / players is not like an empty space separating them, but a physical medium (like real air, but a bit thicker than what I like) connecting them together.

 

*Soundstage*

The JPS soundstage was the one I preferred. It is the one, to my ears, that makes truly shine the Phi at resembling a speaker. This is because it puts some distance between the listener and the closest player, and from there it further adds a width and depth of field which is really amazing. Instruments are well separated yet displayed in a credible three-dimensional space (with the help of the DAVE and its crossfeed – which I moderately use set to 1, i.e. the lowest grade).

Prion4 came second, with a slightly more forward first row of players and not as deep field. Instrument separation was top-notch though.

The Lazuli puts you more within the action (you-are-there instead of they-are-here): you feel surrounded by the music and the soundstage is very large, but at the expense of depth and height. Again, it is a matter of tastes and I can easily see how some would like the Lazuli more than the JPS.

*Micro and Macro-Dynamics*

I liked the Prion4 for microdynamics and the JPS for macro. The very quick and abrupt dynamics changes are just thrown at you in a unique effortless and visceral way, (almost) like a big speaker can do if properly driven.

The Lazuli provides a smoother, rounder response where an equal or even larger mass of air is moved around your ears, just in a more relaxed way.

*Wrap-up and further developments*

From this very enjoyable experience, the first thing I concluded is that the stock JPS cable is a very good sounding cable (which is not always the case for other TOTL headphones), and its tuning with the Phi seems carefully matched.

That said, both Lazuli Reference and Prion4 impressed me very much, and while in different ways, they could indeed be seen as upgrades of the JPS stock.

With an infinite budget, I would see the Lazuli as a nice complement, which I could use when I am in the mood for a warmer, more emotional connection with the music, and for most vocal tracks, where it clearly outperforms the JPS and Prion4 for me. On the other hand, if seen as a replacement, it sacrifices (while slightly) some of the aspects that I like the most on the Phi.

The Prion4 is more like an extreme version of the JPS: very clean, transparent and detailed. It provides crazy resolution and finesse, while being a bit leaner than I would have liked, especially in the bass region.

It would be tempting, but I am not sure I could justify the investment over the improvement.

Another two cables that I would like to try are the JPS Superconductor and the Lazuli Ultra. Based on the reviews I read, they could provide the type of improvements I am looking for, with no (or minor) drawbacks.

But, they are well above my budget right now, so I think I will stay a bit longer with the JPS stock (will look for an aftermarket sleeving at least), unless a very good deal comes out in the classifieds 

Plussound and Lavricables make cables for Abyss as well. They are in a lower price range compared to the Lazuli and Prion4 but seem well thought and built. Anyone has experience with them?

I’d like to hear what other Abyss users have experienced with cables upgrades!


----------



## rumina

The last days i have some fun with a modified baseplate for the earpads. I made a vented baseplate for the abyss, with this baseplate i can open and close vents to adjust the sound. 

The benefit is that the headphones no longer needs to sit lightly on you ears and that the amount of venting is everytime the same. I readjusted the fit of the headphone more o less everytime i put i on with the stock baseplate - then i got this idea. thanks to my 3d printer it was easy to test and for my it works great.

 

i have now to earpads, the modified abyss pads and some angle pads (this pair has the same high as the stock one). If you like the regular fit simply close all vents and you can try other pads without much work.

Find the files here:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2930056

have fun with this mod


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## Beolab

rumina said:


> The last days i have some fun with a modified baseplate for the earpads. I made a vented baseplate for the abyss, with this baseplate i can open and close vents to adjust the sound.
> 
> The benefit is that the headphones no longer needs to sit lightly on you ears and that the amount of venting is everytime the same. I readjusted the fit of the headphone more o less everytime i put i on with the stock baseplate - then i got this idea. thanks to my 3d printer it was easy to test and for my it works great.
> 
> ...




True great mod, how do you find the mod worked out sonically ?


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## rumina

I wasn't sure before testing this mod if the venting at this place isn't as good as the venting between the ear and the pad (loosing stage deep/wide?). So it tried first with some spare pads i have from my th900, the angle pads from lawton audio.

But if worked very well from the beginning. The main effect are the fine controle over the lower frequencys. You can simulate the effect if you listening to the headphone and open/push back the earpad in front with your fingers. The bass gets first deeper (to much pressure on the pads with the orginal design you loose the deeper bass), then bigger, after that even bigger/bloomy and you loose details/speed.

I think with the venting holes you have a good control of the damping of the diaphragm. To open and you loosing details and controle, to closed the air pressure is to high to play freely.

As told the effects is very dominant at the lower frequency but it exist a sweet spot. I listen often to deadmau5 / 5 yers of mau5 / track 1. ghosts n stuff to test bass performance and soundstage. After the first 45seconds the bass goes really deep and you have also a circling sound (starts at 16 seconds for the soundstage. With this track the bass part is easy to test/adjust. When you hit the sweet spot you can also hear instantly that the circling sound rotates anticlockwise - otherwise it needs some seconds.

Opening vents in the front of your ear has the biggest effect, then up/down, not so much behinde you ear. so 1 down is like 1/2 front, nice to fine adjust. With this baseplate 2-3 open vents are fine for me. 

I also realized that deeper earpads are better for the soundstage, the angle pads are around 2mm less deep then the orginal pads and the soundstage is a tad smaler.

Due the mod is easy done and reversible it's a great option for this nice headphone. I will also test the baseplate with some audeze lcd-3 earpads, like the softness of these pads.

Overall you can have the same quality with the orginal pads but needs some adjustment every time (also a good thing, a bit more bass for edm simply open the front a bit). I like the mod because it's easy to handle and sounds then everytime the same (and ok , i like to have a bit more pressure on the earpads and a firmer hold).

At last all this is only possible due the design of this headphone, strange and genius at the same time . I have a big love for this headphone, my head-fi time has cut in half since i have it.


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## mulder01

Seems like you have found another way to vent different parts of the pad without needing to rely on the big bulky frame... Do you think with this mod you could have a more 'standard' headband fitted but still have the customize-ability (pretty sure that's not a word) of the sound that you get with the stock headband, or is it not really the same?


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## rumina

I think it should be possible from the fit side, no longer need for the gently touch of the earpads.

But i'm not shure how big is the role (soundwise) of the firmness of the frame. With the orginal frame even minor self resonating is hardly possible - that could be a deal breaker for a regular adjustable frame (like a audeze lcd frame). My feeling is that this sturdy frame plays a big role in this construction.

Using let's say a strong custom frame tailored only for you with no moving parts would imo the best way.


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## Beolab (May 27, 2018)

rumina said:


> I wasn't sure before testing this mod if the venting at this place isn't as good as the venting between the ear and the pad (loosing stage deep/wide?). So it tried first with some spare pads i have from my th900, the angle pads from lawton audio.
> 
> But if worked very well from the beginning. The main effect are the fine controle over the lower frequencys. You can simulate the effect if you listening to the headphone and open/push back the earpad in front with your fingers. The bass gets first deeper (to much pressure on the pads with the orginal design you loose the deeper bass), then bigger, after that even bigger/bloomy and you loose details/speed.
> 
> ...




Sound great, have you glued the your "3D vent frame" on the org. abyss pad ?


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## rumina

The orginal abyss pads using double sided tape to hold the baseplate. You can gently and slowly remove the orginal baseplate. Double sided tape sticks to the leather, put the new baseplate on - thats all.


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## erik701

*ABYSS has given their AB-1266 Phi Reference Headphone a new suit, made of, what they say is, “the hardest thin film coating on Earth”.  A coloured polymer ceramic coating (CC) is factory applied and oven cured. This gives a two-tone luxury black finish and ABYSS say it also enhances the quality of sound by further improving upon the anti-resonant nature of its all aluminium components. It also allows for custom colour options.*

ABYSS has also improved upon the ear pads in both appearance and function. The new pads are deeper and more comfortable, and are said to improve acoustics.  The new pads will be standard issue with the new CC model, and will also be sold separately as an upgrade for any older model AB-1266.

Pricing for the new AB-1266 Phi CC is $4995 USD for the Lite version, $5995 USD for Deluxe, and $7995 USD for the Complete. Current Euro prices will remain the same.


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## Thenewguy007

erik701 said:


> *ABYSS has given their AB-1266 Phi Reference Headphone a new suit, made of, what they say is, “the hardest thin film coating on Earth”.  A coloured polymer ceramic coating (CC) is factory applied and oven cured. This gives a two-tone luxury black finish and ABYSS say it also enhances the quality of sound by further improving upon the anti-resonant nature of its all aluminium components. It also allows for custom colour options.*
> 
> ABYSS has also improved upon the ear pads in both appearance and function. The new pads are deeper and more comfortable, and are said to improve acoustics.  The new pads will be standard issue with the new CC model, and will also be sold separately as an upgrade for any older model AB-1266.
> 
> Pricing for the new AB-1266 Phi CC is $4995 USD for the Lite version, $5995 USD for Deluxe, and $7995 USD for the Complete. Current Euro prices will remain the same.



Is there really any color other than black that people want their headphone in?


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## fredfung28

So... the ABYSS 1266 PHI CC is a new upgrade with better sound improvement, I just bought the phi for half a year and the upgrade is here.. Is there any chance to upgrade the 1266 phi to CC?


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## Beolab (Jun 1, 2018)

this is a never ending hobby thats for sure, but the drivers inside is the same, so no need to worry


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## mulder01

fredfung28 said:


> So... the ABYSS 1266 PHI CC is a new upgrade with better sound improvement, I just bought the phi for half a year and the upgrade is here.. Is there any chance to upgrade the 1266 phi to CC?



I'm not sure if you would be able to hear much difference with a different type of paint... I'd say if you asked Joe there would be options for you if you really wanted it.



Thenewguy007 said:


> Is there really any color other than black that people want their headphone in?



Purple and gold obviously.


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## Sound Trooper

Thenewguy007 said:


> Is there really any color other than black that people want their headphone in?



Now that's progress! 

I'll have mine in hot pink!


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## jlbrach

i cant imagine anyone possibly upgrading a Phi due to a new paint job lol....i say that ass a Phi owner and a habitual upgrader


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## cradon

It's not just the paint job, the pads have also been upgraded.


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## simorag

Of course, knowing your beloved, expensive and relatively new toy looses the flagship status is never pleasing … Also, the value of the current Phi in the used market is going to suffer from the CC introduction.

That said, I am not even remotely thinking of selling mines in the foreseeable future, and I am not sure the ceramic coating SQ enhancement "by further improving upon the anti-resonant nature of its all aluminium components" is going to be dramatic.

On the other hand, I am happy to see the new pads, which look more comfy and luxurious, and, based on my experience on how sensitive the Abyss are to pads positioning, I am prone to believe that they will indeed affect the sound presentation as well in a noticeable way. They are not cheap, but I am pre-ordering a pair.

In the end, it is good that JPS provides an upgrade path to current Abyss owners as well.


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## FLTWS

simorag said:


> Of course, knowing your beloved, expensive and relatively new toy looses the flagship status is never pleasing … Also, the value of the current Phi in the used market is going to suffer from the CC introduction.
> 
> That said, I am not even remotely thinking of selling mines in the foreseeable future, and I am not sure the ceramic coating SQ enhancement "by further improving upon the anti-resonant nature of its all aluminium components" is going to be dramatic.
> 
> ...



Do you know if they charge your account when they ship or is it a pre-pay situation?


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## simorag

FLTWS said:


> Do you know if they charge your account when they ship or is it a pre-pay situation?



Hi, I placed the order through my dealer, and not paid yet!


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## Joe Skubinski

The new ear pads are really nice, sonically, aesthetically, and comfort-wise. I was A/B'ing the finished prototypes a few days ago against the originals, simply put they have more of a real life acoustic.

The new 'paint job' encompasses all aluminum components of the AB-1266 frame. To 'upgrade' to this means to take the drivers out of your current headphone and place them into a new headphone. Due to the cost involved the new aesthetic is not something that can be upgraded to. The ear pad upgrade is where you want to be.

New pads can be ordered from your ABYSS dealer, or preorder *here* at a special price through the month of June. We've also added an easier to find accessories link on the ABYSS website, will be adding Diana cables, adaptor cables, and more over time.


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## FLTWS (Jun 2, 2018)

Pre-ordered.
Dam, I like this headphone.
But, I do have a hard time seeing what color they are when I'm wearing them.
I need to buy a hand held mirror.


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## matthewhypolite

Joe Skubinski said:


> The new ear pads are really nice, sonically, aesthetically, and comfort-wise. I was A/B'ing the finished prototypes a few days ago against the originals, simply put they have more of a real life acoustic.
> 
> The new 'paint job' encompasses all aluminum components of the AB-1266 frame. To 'upgrade' to this means to take the drivers out of your current headphone and place them into a new headphone. Due to the cost involved the new aesthetic is not something that can be upgraded to. The ear pad upgrade is where you want to be.
> 
> New pads can be ordered from your ABYSS dealer, or preorder *here* at a special price through the month of June. We've also added an easier to find accessories link on the ABYSS website, will be adding Diana cables, adaptor cables, and more over time.



Hey Joe, I'm definately pre-ordering a pair later today, question though, does the new pads affect the fit in any way? Currently my fit is 2pm/10am rotation and slightly touching my face. Does these new pads change how we would wear the abyss?


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## draytonklammer (Jun 2, 2018)

Man, I expected maybe $200-250, but $325-$395, wow.

I really have to decide how much it matters to me I guess.

I'm sure I'll end up doing it anyways in hopes there won't be more upgrades afterwards, but ouch I apparently needed to set aside a few more bucks.


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## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> Man, I expected maybe $200-250, but $325-$395, wow.
> 
> I really have to decide how much it matters to me I guess.
> 
> I'm sure I'll end up doing it anyways in hopes there won't be more upgrades afterwards, but ouch I apparently needed to set aside a few more bucks.



You didn't think you could be an audiophile and be done spending money did you?


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## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> You didn't think you could be an audiophile and be done spending money did you?



In my dreams, I would suppose. 
And here I was thinking the Phi and Dave would tide me over a bit longer.


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## Joe Skubinski

matthewhypolite said:


> Hey Joe, I'm definately pre-ordering a pair later today, question though, does the new pads affect the fit in any way? Currently my fit is 2pm/10am rotation and slightly touching my face. Does these new pads change how we would wear the abyss?



I have no problem switching between the original and the CC pads without any major adjustment, they are a drop-in upgrade. However, anytime you make a change in the system I would suggest reinvestigating your personal center.


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## Mikey99

i just bought a pair, shortly afterwards my dealer found out about the CC upgrade. He notified me immediately, has ordered a pair of the new pads, and will swap them out at no charge.


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## MacedonianHero

Mikey99 said:


> i just bought a pair, shortly afterwards my dealer found out about the CC upgrade. He notified me immediately, has ordered a pair of the new pads, and will swap them out at no charge.



Curious to see how the new aesthetic changes the look. But I'm all about the sound and I should be trying a set of the new earpads and do an update to my Phi review with regards to the sonic improvements.


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## FLTWS

MacedonianHero said:


> Curious to see how the new aesthetic changes the look. But I'm all about the sound and I should be trying a set of the new earpads and do an update to my Phi review with regards to the sonic improvements.



That would be nice. I plan on keeping the old regardless of how the new pads work for me.


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## drew911d

Just preordered the CC pads...  Will be nice to tune the sound a bit between the pads with these amazing HP's.


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## draytonklammer

Im still considering the CC ear pads myself. 
They really don't look/seem different enough to change much. 

Joe, maybe you can shed some light on this in terms of what design decisions ended up improving the sound of the Abyss with these ear pads. Has the ear pads material changed as well? I'd be interested if it's a clear comfort upgrade too.


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## Joe Skubinski

This...


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## Joe Skubinski (Jun 10, 2018)




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## Beolab (Jun 13, 2018)

Looks great


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## FLTWS

I'm looking forward to that bit of extra depth for my ears.


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## ra990 (Jun 14, 2018)

Got my Phi with the new coating on them yesterday. I had placed an order right before they announced the change and they ended up sending me one with the new finish! I think they look more sophisticated compared to the all black style. It still has the old earpads, but my dealer will be sending me the new ones once they become available.


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## astrostar59

ra990 said:


> Got my Phi with the new coating on them yesterday. I had placed an order right before they announced the change and they ended up sending me one with the new finish! I think they look more sophisticated compared to the all black style. It still has the old earpads, but my dealer will be sending me the new ones once they become available.



They do look good, not as 'demonic' as the older versions. I heard the Abyss Phi at Munich hi-end on the JPS Labs stand. They sounded very good I thought, close to my LCD4s. The fit was quite loose and they told me that is 'normal'. I think they are slightly more transparent than my LCD4s, and retain the LCD4s bass power and depth. I would buy them if I had the spare dough, the looks grow on you I think. Plus the weight is about the same as the LCD4. Less efficient though, so need a more powerful amp maybe?


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## ra990

astrostar59 said:


> They do look good, not as 'demonic' as the older versions. I heard the Abyss Phi at Munich hi-end on the JPS Labs stand. They sounded very good I thought, close to my LCD4s. The fit was quite loose and they told me that is 'normal'. I think they are slightly more transparent than my LCD4s, and retain the LCD4s bass power and depth. I would buy them if I had the spare dough, the looks grow on you I think. Plus the weight is about the same as the LCD4. Less efficient though, so need a more powerful amp maybe?


You'd be surprised. I frequently run them from my Woo Audio WA8, which is only 350mw of power, and they get plenty loud. I'm listening right now at a comfortable volume and I'm at volume level 5 out of 10 on my WA8. They sound great straight out of the Hugo 2 as well. I used to use a V281, and admittedly noticed a slightly beefier bass, but I prefer the ultra clean sound directly out of the Hugo 2. They're so resolving that it's easy to make out the loss of resolution by adding an amp after the Hugo 2. 

Also, they are actually very comfortable for extended periods of time. I personally find that wearing a hat of some kind improves the bass even more by adding a little more space between the earpads and my head, and I also notice them less since they're not directly on top of my head and they're barely touching around my ear.


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## Benny-x

ra990 said:


> Got my Phi with the new coating on them yesterday. I had placed an order right before they announced the change and they ended up sending me one with the new finish! I think they look more sophisticated compared to the all black style. It still has the old earpads, but my dealer will be sending me the new ones once they become available.



That was hilariously lucky! I was really wondering what the ceramic coating looked like compared to the first 2 versions, since the manufacturer's website doesn't have a picture (wait, what?!), so i came to this good old thread to give it a shot. And low and behold, not only did I get good pictures of the new earpads, but I also get 3 high-quality pictures of the new frame that only showed up by chance to the buyer?! That's awesome!

The new frame is a winner, it upgrades the aesthetic of the now +$500, $5000 headphone. I'm a big fan.

There's still info missingm though. That I know of, there's no discussion yet from the manufacturer about what other colors will be like, lead time, price increase, nor any examples of the finish in other colors. I think it's very welcome, as even the standard new polymer ceramic coating is only available on newly bought units, which means clients of this version will also be the same clients buying custom colors.


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## Xecuter

Can we see a measurement on this 'coating'?
I'm not an objective audiophile, but this really looks like a nice coat of paint. How it could really change the behaviour of soundwaves coming out of the baffle or reflecting against it is a bit of a mystery to me.

Finding someone who has no buyers justification or bias to compare the cc vs the phi will be tricky.


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## mulder01

Benny-x said:


> There's still info missingm though. That I know of, there's no discussion yet from the manufacturer about what other colors will be like, lead time, price increase, nor any examples of the finish in other colors. I think it's very welcome, as even the standard new polymer ceramic coating is only available on newly bought units, which means clients of this version will also be the same clients buying custom colors.



I'd say there won't be loads of custom orders, and what people want will vary, so all pricing would probably be POA.  Lead time would depend on how busy they are at the time and how big the queue is.  They have always done custom orders, just never really advertised it before now.  
If you go back far enough there is a purple and gold one with snakeskin pads I think...



Xecuter said:


> Can we see a measurement on this 'coating'?
> I'm not an objective audiophile, but this really looks like a nice coat of paint. How it could really change the behaviour of soundwaves coming out of the baffle or reflecting against it is a bit of a mystery to me.
> 
> Finding someone who has no buyers justification or bias to compare the cc vs the phi will be tricky.



Surely it would be minimal.  My guessing is if you get the frame and knock on it, you can see how long it vibrates for after it's hit - like if you flick the side of an empty wine glass it will ring out for a while compared to if you flick a block of wood.  I'm assuming they can measure that with something, and perhaps the new coating deadens vibrations of the frame more quickly than the previous one... Will you hear it?  Maybe not.  Matt black does look badass though.


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## ra990 (Jun 16, 2018)

Here's a couple more naked pics with some easy headband mods I did. The pilot pad at the top protects the elastic band from stretching too much (thanks to whoever suggested it on this thread) and at the bottom, a sennheiser headband strip that I'm trying out but not sure about yet.


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## Benny-x

mulder01 said:


> I'd say there won't be loads of custom orders, and what people want will vary, so all pricing would probably be POA.  Lead time would depend on how busy they are at the time and how big the queue is.  They have always done custom orders, just never really advertised it before now.
> If you go back far enough there is a purple and gold one with snakeskin pads I think...


Hmm, I'd still hope to have some feedback from the manufacturer that was a little more fleshed out than "it depends"...

BUT holy crap, I never knew about those purple, gold, and snakeskin ones before!? And then I found another blue, white, and ostrich leather ones!?!? Crazy. Those are like full on customs, not simple tweaks, so that's really cool crap. 

I'd for sure think the new coating lends itself much better to paint jobs and colours than the ~anodized one from before. As much as +$500 is a kick in the sack, I'd have to also agree with the "better" headphone they're making/selling now vs. 4 weeks ago. If only they could be slightly lightened and made less torturous looking... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## mulder01

Benny-x said:


> Hmm, I'd still hope to have some feedback from the manufacturer that was a little more fleshed out than "it depends"...



But, it _does_ depend, think of what you want and ask for a price.  Easy.


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## Benny-x

mulder01 said:


> But, it _does_ depend, think of what you want and ask for a price.  Easy.


There is a description of an updated product, but there are no pictures on the manufacturer's website of the new product. Then it mentions custom paint options, but indicates nothing more about it.

I do appreciate your feedback, but unfortunately not only are you missing the mark, the question/statement wasn't directed at you, and as per my point, you don't have any more information about this than I do. 

I'll hope that my points are seen by JPS/Abyss and they update their site, that's all


----------



## mulder01

I know what you're saying, but from what I understand, it's not like there's only, say, a few fixed colour options.  Like a drop down box that lets you pick: black, grey, blue, orange, etc.  It will be a truly custom order.  Like Beolab had custom pads made, but they were just made for him - you can't order them from the website.

You might have stumbled across the red and black abyss from a while back, while you were looking for the gold and purple one - the owner put up pictures of his listening room some time ago and the red of the headphones is matched to the red feature wall in his listening room.  It's custom, like as in, proper custom, not just one of a few set options.  

You can wait for an online order form with pre-determined pricing if you want, but I suspect for all custom orders you would need to send through an inquiry.  If you want one in, navy blue or whatever, just ask.  Joe is pretty good with his response times and genuinely happy to help.


----------



## Thenewguy007

mulder01 said:


> I know what you're saying, but from what I understand, it's not like there's only, say, a few fixed colour options.  Like a drop down box that lets you pick: black, grey, blue, orange, etc.  It will be a truly custom order.  Like Beolab had custom pads made, but they were just made for him - you can't order them from the website.
> 
> You might have stumbled across the red and black abyss from a while back, while you were looking for the gold and purple one - the owner put up pictures of his listening room some time ago and the red of the headphones is matched to the red feature wall in his listening room.  It's custom, like as in, proper custom, not just one of a few set options.
> 
> You can wait for an online order form with pre-determined pricing if you want, but I suspect for all custom orders you would need to send through an inquiry.  If you want one in, navy blue or whatever, just ask.  Joe is pretty good with his response times and genuinely happy to help.



Any of you guys have pics of that red or purple custom cans? I'd like to see how they look.


----------



## mulder01

Thenewguy007 said:


> Any of you guys have pics of that red or purple custom cans? I'd like to see how they look.


Hmm, there used to be a gallery for each thread and it seems to be gone now...


----------



## phase0 (Jun 17, 2018)

I remember these from a long time ago ~2015...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-126#post-11269483
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-126#post-11270800

I wouldn't want that. The new look is nice. I'm okay w/ what I have. Debating if I care over $300 enough for new ear pads for how much diff? Argh...


----------



## FLTWS

phase0 said:


> I remember these from a long time ago ~2015...
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-126#post-11269483
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-126#post-11270800
> ...



Staring at that second pair could lead to eye damage!

As for the new pads; "in for a penny,...".


----------



## phase0

FLTWS said:


> As for the new pads; "in for a penny,...".


Sad but true... I want to be outraged but I know there's no sympathy to be had and I'm already in up to my neck already... You can buy a decent livable HP for that kind of money. I got my used Denon D5Ks for less than these ear pads... So spend a lot now or spend more later after everyone comes back around saying you gotta have em and you passed on the pre-order. Feeling a little bit foolish here...


----------



## mulder01

ooh I forgot about the ghastly blue thing! 

Spare parts for such an expensive piece of gear are always gonna be proportional.  Could be worse, you could be in the market for stands for a chord blu+dave...


----------



## draytonklammer (Jun 20, 2018)

Well, I just ordered a pair of the new ear pads.
Kind of disgusted in myself for doing so though.

Annoyed about not being able to get the new paint. So my Abyss is apparently diminished in value now and "not as good" -- which always feels wonderful as a consumer, especially since I just bought a $1500 Phi upgrade. Most end game setups for all of the world (99% of the population) are a mere fraction of that alone. Even the elite here dwindle for something like that. These ear pads don't help with that feeling either.

Especially since I just bought the damn Phi upgrade, which was $1500 alone. I know R&D costs money and up until this point JPS Labs has been good about this all, but now it's just grab after grab after grab. I WANT TO support JPS Labs/Abyss Headphones as you guys make an awesome product in so many ways, but I am very concerned you're moving away from what I felt you were as a company when I first purchased my Abyss.

I used to brag a little bit that JPS Labs wasn't pulling a Hifiman with constant upgrades and $$$, which to be fair they aren't necessarily, but the amount of money grabbing for different upgrades lately is off putting and scary as a consumer.

I won't hesitate to sell my Abyss and support another company if this continues. They're the best sounding headphones I have tried and that's why I AM TRYING to take these upgrades seriously, but those ear pads should have been $200-250 at best, NOT on special. The Phi upgrade SHOULD have included the new paint if that's supposedly an upgrade, too.

Sorry about my rant and to be honest I expect a lot of you guys to give me backlash, possible even including Joe, but I am speaking my mind which seems to be something rare on this forum in general. This isn't the most well thought out post, but it is what I feel as a customer right now.

I honestly hope that maybe I can get a response from Joe with some level of assurance towards the future, or what prompted this all. I know technology and designs for a flagship must move forward, but this pace is very dangerous to your consumers.


----------



## mulder01 (Jun 20, 2018)

Fair call man.

But at the same time, new drivers, new headphone body, and new pads IS a full replacement headphone (less the cables), and if they gave you all that with a phi upgrade, then they are essentially selling new complete phi CC's for $1500 if you trade in your old abyss (which I assume is worth nothing to them) but then asking new customers for $5500... that doesn't add up either...

Hopefully it doesn't continue but I can't imagine what else they could do - AFAIK the phi driver tech was developed while developing the diana and that got incorporated into the 1266, the pads on the Diana are the ones with all the holes in them and the matt black paint job looks like it is from diana too... The only thing that's left is the headband but I can't imagine that will change.  Well... never say never I suppose.

Looks like these last upgrades were a product of the development of the diana and bringing the manufacturing process in house.  I don't think they were intentionally trying to milk it or piss people off but I can definitely see how it could look that way.

On one hand it seems crazy NOT to incorporate these ideas into the flagship model if you have them, but you're right - in hindsight they should have probably waited a bit longer and had all the updates come out together and just be AB1266.1

But then the only upgrade option would be to buy new...

At least this way you can upgrade everything bar the paint...

I dunno...


----------



## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> Fair call man.
> 
> But at the same time, new drivers, new headphone body, and new pads IS a full replacement headphone (less the cables), and if they gave you all that with a phi upgrade, then they are essentially selling new complete phi CC's for $1500 if you trade in your old abyss (which I assume is worth nothing to them) but then asking new customers for $5500... that doesn't add up either...
> 
> ...



Well, I would have even paid $2000/2500 just to get it all done and have the latest and greatest.
The awful part is, you are right, they would be a "new" headphone, but I guess that's why the price tag would reflect that more.

I do assume you are correct in that this is probably the last of the more recent upgrades, presumably for years to come, but it wasn't offered in a very streamlined manner.

I do agree -- it would be crazy. The Phi drivers are more or less a must and I am glad I upgraded, although steep I can understand, since as you said they really have very little use for the old drivers presumably.
That being said. Lambskin ear pads are not $325 for a pair and we'll be stuck with the old leather pairs. That and $400 will be the real price, so that's even worse.
The paint, I can understand and quite honestly there's no way it makes much of a discernible difference outside of feel/appearance. Vibrations through the headphone material doesn't seem to be a practical concern, but it is sad not having any options for it anyways. Again, RIP resale value.

I am very glad that Joe made it possible to upgrade just about everything and that he didn't just throw out the Abyss Headphones Megalomania-Z4 (making fun of Hifiman/Audeze constant releases without upgrade opportunity)

Just worried about the current pace of upgrades and the prices of said upgrades.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

We have no plans to take the AB-1266 Phi CC beyond this latest version.


----------



## FLTWS

Joe Skubinski said:


> We have no plans to take the AB-1266 Phi CC beyond this latest version.



The Phi is my absolute all around favorite even without the new ear pads. The chronic A/B'er in me compelled me to pre-order the CC just to hear if there is a difference I can detect. Good times! 
And I can wait patiently for the 1277 chi DD.


----------



## draytonklammer

Joe Skubinski said:


> We have no plans to take the AB-1266 Phi CC beyond this latest version.



That's good to know.
Makes me feel better about the ear pads just a little bit. 

I'm assuming you'd agree when saying that the paint difference is likely not a big deal for legacy owners?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The frames are already damn dead when it comes to resonances, it's not something you should worry about.


----------



## erik701

Joe Skubinski said:


> We have no plans to take the AB-1266 Phi CC beyond this latest version.



Joe, does it mean, that you will start working on new flagship headphones anytime soon?


----------



## jlbrach

oh please, worrying about  a new paint  job on a pair of HP's...updating the drivers  yes...the  pads,   sure if it is beneficial but worrying about a paint job....i mean really?


----------



## draytonklammer

Joe Skubinski said:


> The frames are already damn dead when it comes to resonances, it's not something you should worry about.



Once again, thanks for the replies.
Good to know that I will be up to speed come sometime in July.


----------



## jscmd2000

We need macrumors for headphones, with buyers guide and all.


----------



## phase0

Sticker shock aside at least there's an option to not be "obsolete".


----------



## Beolab (Jun 23, 2018)

*I Will most likely place an order on the new Abyss Phi Reference CC , so my Abyss Phi is up for sale if someone is interested. *


----------



## jlbrach

Beolab said:


> *I Will most likely place an order on the new Abyss Phi Reference CC , so my Abyss Phi is up for sale if someone is interested to collect a pair in mint condition with some special extras included: *
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/jps-labs-ab-1266-abyss-phi-in-mint-condition.882512/



seriously?..you are the selling the Phi to buy the Phi with a new paint job?


----------



## Xecuter

jlbrach said:


> seriously?..you are the selling the Phi to buy the Phi with a new paint job?



Don't question the hype brigade!


----------



## Beolab (Jun 22, 2018)

jlbrach said:


> seriously?..you are the selling the Phi to buy the Phi with a new paint job?



Just for collecting a special edition, because as Joe also stated this is the last version for Abyss, i do not upgrade for any other hypothetic SQ matter i can ensure you. ✌️

Often a special edition is always going to gain in value later on, even if its just the paint and pads.


----------



## mulder01

I don't think it's a special edition, just a new standard.  If you got a custom colour, that would be special.


----------



## phase0

How much would it cost to send your frame back for a new paint job?


----------



## mulder01

They're not offering that as an option, which is why he is selling his pair and buying new...


----------



## Thenewguy007

phase0 said:


> How much would it cost to send your frame back for a new paint job?



Colorware does custom paint jobs, but it won't be the same type of paint as the new CC version.


----------



## mulder01

Thenewguy007 said:


> Colorware does custom paint jobs, but it won't be the same type of paint as the new CC version.



Would you trust them to pull apart your very expensive planars and reassemble them after painting?


----------



## erik701

mulder01 said:


> Would you trust them to pull apart your very expensive planars and reassemble them after painting?



Exactly, Mulder has good point. They will just take regular pair and add another layer of colour based on your choice, which will add weight and headphones will also lose features which are behind "no resonance", which have been taken in mind during development.


----------



## DrummerLeo

Does anybody paired 1266 with EC ZDS?


----------



## Beolab

Not EC ZDS , but the Studio, and the EC ZDS is to weak in output power in this case with 650 mW just.  You will get a very detailed, high resolutioned sound with some warmth, but not overwhelmingly alot. Mybe the ZDS is more gentle than the studio perhaps. 

The Abyss likes Tube-amps , but i can not recommend it for the Abyss, if your Abyss is your No. 1 headphone.


----------



## Xecuter (Jun 27, 2018)

Beolab said:


> Not EC ZDS , but the Studio, and the EC ZDS is to weak in output power in this case with 650 mW just.  You will get a very detailed, high resolutioned sound with some warmth, but not overwhelmingly alot. Mybe the ZDS is more gentle than the studio perhaps.
> 
> The Abyss likes Tube-amps , but i can not recommend it for the Abyss, if your Abyss is your No. 1 headphone.



This is not true at all, the studio easily drives the Abyss OG. I run it at about 1 oclock on the volume knob.
Also it's an excellent pairing, the studio was tested extensively with the abyss during it's development.

EDIT: I have heard that the ZDS (some of the variations) is not sufficient nor a good pairing with the OG Abyss


----------



## m17xr2b

The Stratus/WA5 also drove the OG Abyss quite brilliantly 6/10 volume. The Moon 600i was slightly better but not by all that much.


----------



## Beolab (Jun 27, 2018)

Xecuter said:


> This is not true at all, the studio easily drives the Abyss OG. I run it at about 1 oclock on the volume knob.
> Also it's an excellent pairing, the studio was tested extensively with the abyss during it's development.
> 
> EDIT: I have heard that the ZDS (some of the variations) is not sufficient nor a good pairing with the OG Abyss



I think you have to read one more time.

I refereed to that the Studio can handle the Abyss Phi ,  but the ZDS  will most probably be to weak , you need some headroom, so i would not recommend it. That is my opinion

Go for the Studio ( Used one )  in that case


----------



## Xecuter

I read it a few times and what you said is not very clear, sorry. I know you are not native with English


----------



## Beolab (Jun 27, 2018)

Sorry for my poor grammar and spelling, and yes you are right, i am not a native Englishman, but i try my best to keep up


----------



## DrummerLeo

Beolab said:


> Not EC ZDS , but the Studio, and the EC ZDS is to weak in output power in this case with 650 mW just.  You will get a very detailed, high resolutioned sound with some warmth, but not overwhelmingly alot. Mybe the ZDS is more gentle than the studio perhaps.
> 
> The Abyss likes Tube-amps , but i can not recommend it for the Abyss, if your Abyss is your No. 1 headphone.


To be honest I purchased ZDS for Uto, but I recently tried 1266 paired with Stratus ... man they are so good, but I feel Stratus is not powerful enough. Do you have any recommendations? I owned a LAu before but I don’t like it, it sounds weird to me. Studio is out of my budget... I’m thinking about some good amps around 3k.


----------



## m17xr2b

tube hybrids should work if you still want tube bloom with solid state control. Liquid glass comes to mind. Otherwise you need a push pull tube amp and they are expensive.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Well, mark me down as an Abyss Fanboi! I've been going through some health issues (they are putting me back together, I'm an orthopedic surgeon’s dream), and I haven't been able to listen to my system as frequently as usual. Every time I put them on I am absolutely amazed at how fantastic thy sound. This is with a modest system (Bluesound>Vinshine R2R Ladder DAC>Lyr 3 ((Sylvania Bad Boy))>Abyss), they truly are the closest to listening to a pair of great speakers that I've heard from a headphone.


----------



## jhai

DrummerLeo said:


> To be honest I purchased ZDS for Uto, but I recently tried 1266 paired with Stratus ... man they are so good, but I feel Stratus is not powerful enough. Do you have any recommendations? I owned a LAu before but I don’t like it, it sounds weird to me. Studio is out of my budget... I’m thinking about some good amps around 3k.



I note the comment re the Cavalli Lau sounding "weird".
As I have this amp, I have always been particularly interested in what others have found as to the sound characteristics of the Lau. OK, I sure don't find it "weird",(but that's fine) but in that there was never a lot of discussion on the sound characteristics of the Lau, I'm really interested in some impressions.
          To say that I am trying to 're-centre' my listening with the Abyss, (& associated equipment, Metrum 'Pavane DAC) & particularly in that will be having it converted to the Phi version.
As I use the Lau with the Abyss, (& also the HD800S) I ask here rather than dumping it into the actual Lau thread in that it is not so active now
My impression is that it is just slightly "warm", &  'valve like' in some ways. But my ears are 'old'.
Really interested in opinions of:
Micro detail
Macro detail
Speed
'Tightness'.
Would really appreciate some input as to you impressions of this amp


----------



## DrummerLeo

jhai said:


> I note the comment re the Cavalli Lau sounding "weird".
> As I have this amp, I have always been particularly interested in what others have found as to the sound characteristics of the Lau. OK, I sure don't find it "weird",(but that's fine) but in that there was never a lot of discussion on the sound characteristics of the Lau, I'm really interested in some impressions.
> To say that I am trying to 're-centre' my listening with the Abyss, (& associated equipment, Metrum 'Pavane DAC) & particularly in that will be having it converted to the Phi version.
> As I use the Lau with the Abyss, (& also the HD800S) I ask here rather than dumping it into the actual Lau thread in that it is not so active now
> ...


The word "old" is way more accurate than my "weird". One of the biggest downside I found on LAu is that LAu seems can tune every headphones to sorta the same... It is a very likable AMP, I just don't like that LAu adds too much "personal flavor" to the sound, especially in mid, which makes it sounds like old cd players. Another problem I found from my Lau is the sound is a little bit too thick and full for my taste when pair with utopia, somehow makes me feel nervous instead of relaxing, that's why I use "weird". But I have to say, I'm still regretting selling it cause it's so versatile.


----------



## DrummerLeo

jhai said:


> I note the comment re the Cavalli Lau sounding "weird".
> As I have this amp, I have always been particularly interested in what others have found as to the sound characteristics of the Lau. OK, I sure don't find it "weird",(but that's fine) but in that there was never a lot of discussion on the sound characteristics of the Lau, I'm really interested in some impressions.
> To say that I am trying to 're-centre' my listening with the Abyss, (& associated equipment, Metrum 'Pavane DAC) & particularly in that will be having it converted to the Phi version.
> As I use the Lau with the Abyss, (& also the HD800S) I ask here rather than dumping it into the actual Lau thread in that it is not so active now
> ...


LOL, sorry I didn't read your comment carefully. I didn't mean to say your ears are old, I mean the Lau does give me a vintage equipment's feel.


----------



## banger

Just in case any one is looking to upgrade to the JPS labs superconductor cable: 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/jps-labss-abyss-superconductor-hp-cable-2-x-3-pin.883013/


----------



## jhai

DrummerLeo said:


> LOL, sorry I didn't read your comment carefully. I didn't mean to say your ears are old, I mean the Lau does give me a vintage equipment's feel.





DrummerLeo said:


> LOL, sorry I didn't read your comment carefully. I didn't mean to say your ears are old, I mean the Lau does give me a vintage equipment's feel.



No problem!!! In fact, I was referring to my ears being "old", they are in fact extremely similar in age as to the rest of me, --- nearly 75.
Your stated impressions make sense, "strange", & this defined to "old" & this redefined as "vintage".
Much appreciated,( &, I am sure no offence taken by yourself) your impressions make me even more interested in that of anyone else that can comment.


----------



## Beolab (Jul 4, 2018)

DrummerLeo said:


> To be honest I purchased ZDS for Uto, but I recently tried 1266 paired with Stratus ... man they are so good, but I feel Stratus is not powerful enough. Do you have any recommendations? I owned a LAu before but I don’t like it, it sounds weird to me. Studio is out of my budget... I’m thinking about some good amps around 3k.



There is alot of small garage companies or DIY tube headphone amps to find especially in Asia, but if we look a the High End side and more common names like, the WOo’s , EC, E.A.R MP4 , Wavelength , Audiovalve , Pathos etc , they does not make a whole lot of power, but you get the spark and the uniqe shimmering velvet sound that an SS amp does not possess.

If you want to go the middle road you loan an Ifi Ican Pro that can run as a pure SS or a hybrid or a true Tube amp, but it needs better tubes to come to life. It is like an swiss army knife in all sorts of ways but not a true top of the line High End amp with a sole in my opinion, but it plays very correct.

You can also try a Speaker Tube amp like a used Leben ( Leben is like an Jaguar, it is not best in any criteria, but it is still an Jaguar with its own sole, and you get the great tube sound in spades) .


----------



## ufospls2 (Jun 29, 2018)

Nevermind. Deleted.


----------



## mulder01

Phi with scratches and rust?  You been doing triathlons wearing these or something?


----------



## ufospls2

Absolutely. And marathons.


----------



## FLTWS

LOL!


----------



## DrummerLeo

ufospls2 said:


> Absolutely. And marathons.


Next time you go for marathon with your high end gears PLEASE pm me...... that will save you some time of listing them for sale lol...


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Nice review by Jay on the Eleven XI Audio Formula S and Phi combo...
https://audiobacon.net/2018/07/04/eleven-xi-audio-formula-s-headphone-amplifier-and-powerman-review/

_"There’s a reason why you’ll see so many experienced reviewers with an Abyss headphone in their listening room – this headphone sets the bar for many discerning ears."

_


----------



## simorag

In my previous posts here and on the Chord DAVE thread, I have reported that the only complaint I had with my system was a slight sibilance on some (especially female) vocal tracks.

As any compulsive audiophile, I have grown fixated about this at the point that I was “expecting” the harsh spot on each problematic tune thus ruining the overall listening experience by making it not relaxed, focused on technicalities instead of on the music itself.

I have this issue since my first setup (HD800S + Audio GD NOS11), so I tend to believe that I am over-sensitive to sibilance compared to the average guy.

Over time, I tried many upgrades and tweaks, and some of them brought improvements (like the Phasure Lush USB cable and the Audioquest NRG-1000 power cable for the DAVE), while not solving my problem.

I had great expectations when upgrading from my (highly optimized) Surface Pro 3 as the source to the Innuos ZENith MkII SE, but had no luck. Don’t get me wrong: the overall sound quality indeed improved, but the specific issue I have with sibilance was still there.

A recent upgrade to my system has been the IsoTek EVO3 Aquarius power conditioner, which has further elevated the level of clarity, transparency, airiness and detail retrieval of my already quite resolving system, but, again, had no effect on the sibilance thing. After the addition of the Aquarius, my rig has become a detail monster, extremely exciting when you look for the wow-effect or with some music genres, but a bit fatiguing and too dry for my tastes.

Enter the Akiko Audio Triple AC Enhancer (just “Triple” in the following – see their website for info).


 

I bought it upon the recommendation of a friend, but my “snake oil alert” was very much _on_. However, since the price was not insanely high (in audiophile comparative terms) and since they provide a fair no question asked full refund return policy, I thought I had little to risk.

I just plugged the Triple in one of the Aquarius ports, and diligently waited for a few days for it to burn-in (easy, because I was leaving for a business trip), and did my first listening.

I am forcing myself to avoid typical clichés or exaggerations, but I was really surprised since the first tunes, and still I am after some weeks of use of the Triple, of the extent of the changes produced by this device in my system.

I immediately noticed a very welcome sense of warmth, calmness and relaxation of the whole sound presentation. Female vocals, especially, had more body and lush. Sibilance is dissolved into its smooth and realistic physical counterpart (apart from some very problematic tracks, which are inherently very sibilant).

Woods, especially violin, are less strident and more tactful.

Listening fatigue dropped significantly.

After these first impressions, to which I still stand after more usage, I started thinking that I was going to discover some drawbacks somewhere. In the past, I made changes to my system where I had to trade-off transparency, soundstage and instrument separation for more warmth and smoothness (which I rejected, since I am a very analytical listener), and I was afraid that was the case with the Triple as well.

So, I started to play a few of my favorite tracks for transparency and soundstage (chamber music, small jazz trios, choral music). I was very happy to find out that also those tracks benefited by the newly added warmth and smoothness, with no noticeable loss of detail etc.

Yesterday, I did a sanity check, by unplugging the AC Enhancer, and it was really straightforward to notice that some warmth was gone and a little more hardness was back especially around the treble.

In conclusion, the introduction of the Akiko Audio Triple AC Enhancer has been very beneficial in my system, especially in terms of vocals rendering, treble smoothness and overall tension release.

My Abyss Phi never sounded as good as they are now, and I would recommend to anybody finding the Phi slightly on the bright side to try the Akiko Audio Triple AC Enhancer in their setup.


----------



## AbyssHeadphones

FYI, today is the last day to order the new AB-1266 CC ear pads at the preorder price. For those who ordered they begin shipping in about a week. Thanks!

https://abyss-headphones.com/products/new-ab-1266-cc-replacement-ear-pads


----------



## mulder01

simorag said:


> As any compulsive audiophile, I have grown fixated about this at the point that I was “expecting” the harsh spot on each problematic tune thus ruining the overall listening experience by making it not relaxed, focused on technicalities instead of on the music itself.



It seems the more you spend and tweak the more this becomes true.  And any escape from it is only temporary.


----------



## simorag (Jul 7, 2018)

mulder01 said:


> It seems the more you spend and tweak the more this becomes true.  And any escape from it is only temporary.



Yes, focusing on gear instead of music is a common audiophile disease, and sadly I must admit I am not immune to it 

Music reproduction, even when using TOTL components, is far from being flawless compared to the real thing, let alone the intrinsic physical limitations of a headphone set.

Therefore, it is easy for our demons to find us excuses to push for the next upgrade, and this is especially true when your preferred music is acoustic / classical, and if you attend often to live events.

That said, there are very special pieces of hardware (being the Abyss Phi and Chord DAVE two examples), that in the best setup conditions and with special recordings or music passages, can provide very special experiences (no _illegal_ drugs involved), where combinations of the musical message, spatial cues, tonal realism, physical impact bring you for a moment not only out of your head but nearly out of your time and place.

And I strive for more of these transcendent moments.


----------



## ufospls2

I'm not sure if this article has been posted before. Google translate actually does an...ok(ish) job of translating this into English. 

https://musicalhead.de/2018/05/03/test-abyss-diana-vs-abyss-ab1266-phi/

It one of the few in depth comparisons of the AB-1266 Phi and Diana I have seen. I thought some of you might enjoy reading it


----------



## FLTWS

Just got an E-Mail the CC's are shipping.


----------



## matthewhypolite

I did as well.


----------



## draytonklammer

matthewhypolite said:


> I did as well.



I love the office gif.
That's how I feel right now.

Getting mine on Thursday it looks like.


----------



## mulder01

Anyone get a custom colour?


----------



## FLTWS

mulder01 said:


> Anyone get a custom colour?



I wasn't aware the new Phi ear pads came in different color offerings, not that I would have gotten anything but the black anyway.


----------



## draytonklammer

FLTWS said:


> I wasn't aware the new Phi ear pads came in different color offerings, not that I would have gotten anything but the black anyway.



I believe he is referring to the new Abyss CC frame itself.


----------



## mulder01

Yeah I thought you referring to the headphones when you said the new CCs


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 13, 2018)

draytonklammer said:


> I believe he is referring to the new Abyss CC frame itself.



Ah, that makes sense. The mat black finish my Phi came with is really nice, doesn't show fingerprints, etc., and if something does a wipe with a soft towel takes care of it.
I demo'd a 1266 updated to Phi with the older soft shine finish for about a week and a half before ordering the one I own. Initially I wasn't enamored of the new finish butnow, I really prefer it.

Should have the CC pads tomorrow or Friday, looking forward to comparing. Kinda glad I'll have the original pads too.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Sitting down with some Pink Floyd (Endless River) and my Abyss Phi headphones and absolutely loving what I'm hearing! I've always felt that Pink Floyd sounded better with speakers or headphones that offer outstanding sound staging and these headphones certainly are up to that task and then some! The level of detail and clarity is outstanding!


----------



## Joe Skubinski

On the new CC ear pads, a few tips when coming off an old shoe...

Place them with the seam in the same place as your old pads. Note the magnets on these are way stronger and really grab. When repositioning be gentle in removing them, get all your fingers around the pad to spread out the pull force and pull slowly to disengage the mag ring. 

You may want to pull the headband out a bit to widen the stance at first, if already full out just wait. The materials, foam, lambskin, etc., are new and are temperature sensitive, as they warm they conform to your head. Try not to fiddle too much for the first 20 minutes even though they make you feel the need. Instead, just toe them back a bit for best comfort while they break-in and warm up to you.

After half an hour or so they'll begin to feel like the old shoe. Have fun!


----------



## draytonklammer

Just got my CC pads.
About to try them out for the first time...


----------



## jlbrach

i got them as well,they seem to make the fit a bit snugger....initial impression is positive


----------



## draytonklammer (Jul 12, 2018)

jlbrach said:


> i got them as well,they seem to make the fit a bit snugger....initial impression is positive



So far I agree with you.
It feels a bit tighter and I can't stretch the band out anymore.

I feel like I have lost a little bit of bass quantity, but what I gained in the mid range/upper frequencies is great.

EDIT: I am feeling more of a holographic sound stage and a bit more of a "surround" effect with a lot of music, especially music that is very well recorded. More of the music itself is making it through to my ears, it seems.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Not liking the trend of less & less bass with every revision.

There are a lot of TOTL headphones for soundstage, brightness, detail & midrange. None for bass outside of the massively V-shaped Fostex TH900.


----------



## jlbrach

i see no loss of bass,not to worry...they still have the best bass of any HP out there....


----------



## MacedonianHero

I'll have a pair of the CC pads in shortly. I will update my review of the Phi to the Phi CC on Headphone.Guru, but I'll also report back here from time to time. Just remember that Joe recommended you give them enough time to wear-in. My existing ear pads have a tonne of hours on my head; just because I can't seem to take these headphones off and I've spent many a late night listening to them.


----------



## jlbrach

I am enjoying the new pads...seems more dynamic to me...a bit more focused.....very nice....


----------



## MacedonianHero

jlbrach said:


> I am enjoying the new pads...seems more dynamic to me...a bit more focused.....very nice....



Awesome. Go figure the title of my Abyss Phi review was: "As Good As Personal Audio Gets". Looks like I was off a bit.


----------



## jlbrach

it is never as good as it gets,only as good as it gets until the next thing comes along


----------



## MacedonianHero

jlbrach said:


> it is never as good as it gets,only as good as it gets until the next thing comes along



Or ear-pad improvement.


----------



## jscmd2000

Received the new pads yesterday... they are thicker than the old ones so the drivers sit a bit further away from ears, placing more air around the ears.  The sound quality used to change considerably with the old pads depending on their position, especially the bass, but the new ones seem more stable and the sound does not change as much with position.  Not sure if bass quantity is less, but definitely more stable and reliable. Interestingly, the leather is perforated on the outside only and not inside.


----------



## ra990

jscmd2000 said:


> Interestingly, the leather is perforated on the outside only and not inside.



This is very interesting. What effect would the perforations have only on the outside of the earpad?


----------



## mulder01

Diana is the same.  Might be sound related, might be something as simple as ease of wiping over.  Or maybe holes in the leather where your head sweats on the earpads would probably collect muck over time.  Either way, good to see they've put some thought into it.


----------



## FLTWS

Picking mine up this morning, got an e-mail from Abyss that they were delivered to my P.O. Box yesterday.


----------



## jscmd2000

ra990 said:


> This is very interesting. What effect would the perforations have only on the outside of the earpad?



Not sure, perhaps to dissipate some of the heat building up, or to make it more pliable to conform better to whatever shape, or purely cosmetic... they do look better than the old pads.  Or for better sound quality?


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 13, 2018)

Just installed my CC's. These clamp on with a death grip, I had to get the alignment on the money. I can't slide them around like the originals.
Unlike the originals there is no gaping of any sort to have to close at any point around the perimeter of the seal. When I saw the intro photos with the silver magnetic buds exposed that was what I expected the redesign might accomplish (greater flexibility).

I've always needed to fully expand the head band on mine to get my head in there, so I expected a tighter fit but that seems to be only on the top above my ears. I rotated the seam up one notch on both and problem solved, feels about like the originals right now. The most comfortable fit for me is always with the thickest part of of the pad at the curve in my jawbones between the jawbone joint and my chin. That position equalizes the pressure all the way around the ear pad for me. YHMV (Your head may vary, LOL!).

I'll give the new pads a couple of days before deciding on the sound of the original vs the new.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Just picked up the pair of CC pads today. Build-wise, they are beautifully done and the attention to detail really shows. I'm at work now and won't be able to pop them on my headphones tonight.


----------



## MacedonianHero

A quick update...definitely NOT less bass, but tighter with better definition. Sound staging has improved even more...which is quite a feat as they already has spectacular imaging. Along with the excellent build quality, comfort is quite good. Even though I have my headband at max, I find these ear-pads better distribute the headphones around my ears. After an hour with them...very much a worthy upgrade. Well done Joe & team!

I'll be updating my Abyss Phi review in full in a few weeks in case anyone is interested, but so far, so good.


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 13, 2018)

MacedonianHero said:


> A quick update...definitely NOT less bass, but tighter with better definition. Sound staging has improved even more...which is quite a feat as they already has spectacular imaging. Along with the excellent build quality, comfort is quite good. Even though I have my headband at max, I find these ear-pads better distribute the headphones around my ears. After an hour with them...very much a worthy upgrade. Well done Joe & team!
> 
> I'll be updating my Abyss Phi review in full in a few weeks in case anyone is interested, but so far, so good.



I agree on the bass, I just spent about 7 hours total listening today and I did not expect this kind of change from something as modest as an ear pad re-design. The clean sounding bass is even more impressive and articulate than with the original pads with no excess overhang / reverb. Up and down the frequency range the clarity is improved and the result is reduced congestion when a full orchestra goes full on. Was not expecting this.

I didn't focus on sound stage today but musicians are definitely at a slightly better, comfortable distance. (By comparison my HD800 puts them a bit farther away and my Utopia puts them right in my face.)

The pads are a bit more snug but comfort is fine. In this current heatwave we're having they do feel a little warmer in use than the original pads and I've been crankin' my AC around the clock for about 2+ weeks.

2 weeks from now I'll pop the old pads back in and see if the differences I hear now hold true.


----------



## FLTWS

Something else I've noticed while listening this weekend. Most often I associate headphone sound stage (or head stage) with sounds residing in the left half, or right the half of the stage. Typically the central area of the orchestra will have woodwinds, flutes etc., positioned. Depending on the recording I hear these instruments coming from a left half or right half, and sometimes the sound actually wobbles over and back across that center-line, especially with piccolo's and other wind instruments in there higher ranges. Perhaps as a result of multiple microphone positioning. 

I've noticed that the new pads actually allow for a bit of a center stage to develop that is it's own stable and distinct area carved out between left and right halves. (difficult to explain, lol)

Anyway, I'm enjoying these new pads more and more.


----------



## draytonklammer (Jul 16, 2018)

I've been messing around with the new ear pads a lot trying to figure out what works and what doesn't work.

Haven't quite decided on a position yet. Seems like my favorite position is at around 1 o' clock.


----------



## FLTWS

draytonklammer said:


> I've been messing around with the new ear pads a lot trying to figure out what works and what doesn't work.
> 
> Haven't quite decided on a position yet. Seems like my favorite position is at around 1 o' clock.



Staring directly into my L phone my seam looks to be about 1:30.


----------



## draytonklammer

This is the current position of mine: 
I might have to agree that it could be interpreted as closer to 1:30.


----------



## FLTWS

draytonklammer said:


> This is the current position of mine:
> I might have to agree that it could be interpreted as closer to 1:30.



Yep, that's it, same here!
The transition to the new thickness has been a non-event for me.
And, I do believe it sounds better to my ears in every particular aspect.
I'm glad I went for the pre-order discount, maybe I should have bought a spare too! LOL!


----------



## draytonklammer

I would agree that they sound fantastic at that position.

Truly magical; they put up a VERY good fight against my Focal loudspeakers setup. 

I still question the bass a bit but I've only been able to put a few hours in lately. Hoping to do a bit more critical listening tonight.


----------



## mulder01

draytonklammer said:


> This is the current position of mine:
> I might have to agree that it could be interpreted as closer to 1:30.


Nice view from the listening room!


----------



## draytonklammer

mulder01 said:


> Nice view from the listening room!



It's absolutely beautiful here.
Maybe I'll have to post a more fully featured shot later on. See if anyone can guess the lake...


----------



## Joe Skubinski

CanJam London this weekend. Stop by and have a listen to the new AB-1266 Phi CC. 

https://canjamglobal.com/shows/london-2018/


----------



## drew911d (Jul 22, 2018)

Well, I'm stunned.  I received my CC pads last week, but have not tried them until now.  Partly due to being busy, partly to anxiety of disappointment.  WOW, is my reaction.  I could not have imagined the improvement.  Everything is so much more.  Bass quantity isn't lost at all.  It's just better.  More controlled.  Hell, my mind wants to tell me there is more bass.  But, I know it's just more control.  The slightest change in the fingering of the bass is so evident.  Much cleaner and more enjoyable than before.  I didn't think these incredible headphones could be improved at all, I mean where do you go from here? But this is profound.

It's true, mids and treble are improved even more.  Guitar, the slightest brush across the strings comes across the air with ease.  It's the soundstage.  It was always there with the previous pads.  Now it's more focused.  The perfect picture.  Like having a much needed alignment on your Porsche when you thought it was perfect already.  Like having a mid level 4K TV and upgrading to OLED.  Like your Leica or Swarovski binaculars were slightly out of adjustment and you didn't know.  Stunning clarity I didn't think existed before.  It's that sharpened focus that opens the air, soundstage to perfection.

I'm so much more immersed in beautiful sound now.  I was only waist deep before.  Thank you Joe, for your continued mind boggling improvements.

Suite Judy Blue Eyes is sharper and more enjoyable than before.  The drums, or bongos pop with even more flare.  Planet Caravan, similar drum type I can mentally picture his hands moving across the drums.  They snap with such authority.  I can't remember ever focusing on the piano toward the end, but now it reports to me like live a piano in a quiet room.  Listening to Pink Floyd "Dogs" now.  I'm completely swimming, hair wet and all.  David Gilmour's guitar makes me wanna cry, it's so beautiful.

I previously had the adjustment mid point on the screw and a slight tilt forward.  I now have them fully stretched out with the same slight tilt forward.  More comfortable now too.  Also less finicky about adjustment than before.  Throw them on and enjoy bliss.

Expensive?  Pfft, for 5k + headphones this upgrade in pads price is nothing for what it gives in return.  Same as having your high end cuttlery professionally sharpened.  The difference!  If you own the Phi, you are doing yourself a disservice by not sharpening this tool.


----------



## drew911d (Jul 22, 2018)

Those perforations in the new pads.  I believe I know what they do.  Many years ago I was involved in high end car audio.  I know, not the best (worst, actually) environment for good audio.  But hey, we like to improve what we can.  I, like most people have had the most available amount of time listening to music while commuting.. 

I did a bunch of research in getting good SQ for bass instead of what most did in going for more SPL.  I achieved a pretty good improvement in those days.  The main ingredient was in porting, or not.  Sealed enclosures or open ported.  Sub needs the right air resistance depending on Q, or woofer response.  I'm talking only on vague recollection.  With the previous pads we adjusted for more quantity, or more focus by having a gap or not around the pad seal.  These new pads seal more, but without losing quantity.  The result is more comfort and with the the perfect quantity and quality of bass by allowing just the right amount of pressure response.  A dampened airflow from the driver.  Getting the right dampening factor is not easy.  It seems Joe achieved this in a more difficult environment, being that all heads are not created equally.  We can now enjoy great music without having to always worry about the adjustment.  A magnificent achievement for someone so anal in always trying to get the most like me.  I can relax more and just enjoy the research Joe and his team brought to us.  The best of all worlds.

What I love most about these headphones, you can throw anything at them and it sounds so much better than I've heard it before.  Like it should be.  So many others I've tried that made my favorite music sound bad.  They only shine with perfect recordings.  Such a fail!  The CC pads only make these even more forgiving.  Going in the right direction.


----------



## FLTWS

Yep, I find the same. Overall the CC's are the cherry on top for me.


----------



## ra990

Just listed a Dana Lazuli for sale, if anyone is interested (check my signature for link).


----------



## draytonklammer

ra990 said:


> Just listed a Dana Lazuli for sale, if anyone is interested (check my signature for link).



Sent you a message .


----------



## draytonklammer

Anyone have thoughts on Dana Cable vs DHC for their Abyss?

Currently have a Lavricable (I believe) but I considering more.


----------



## simorag

draytonklammer said:


> Anyone have thoughts on Dana Cable vs DHC for their Abyss?
> 
> Currently have a Lavricable (I believe) but I considering more.



I had the Dana Cable Lazuli Reference and the DHC Prion4 at home for a few weeks. I enjoyed both very much, and between the meatier / fuller Lazuli and the airier and more transparent Prion4 I slightly preferred the latter, which I now own.

Here are some more detailed impressions:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-444#post-14261937

It is really up to personal taste, because these two cables do different things extremely well … The astonishing detail retrieval and the grain-less, liquid treble of the Prion4 won me over in the end.


----------



## jlbrach

the danacable is already more than expensive enough thank you!


----------



## draytonklammer

jlbrach said:


> the danacable is already more than expensive enough thank you!



^

This is how I feel.


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 24, 2018)

jlbrach said:


> the danacable is already more than expensive enough thank you!





draytonklammer said:


> ^ This is how I feel.



Especially as I get'em in 10' or 3 meter lengths for use with my home theater as well. I feel many of my CD recordings benefit from a bit of forgiveness and warmth rather than ultimate in transparency and faithfulness to the recording. I can live with the loss for the handful of true great recordings that would benefit from that ultimate in purity.


----------



## draytonklammer

FLTWS said:


> Especially as I get'em in 10' or 3 meter lengths for use with my home theater as well.



My wallet hurts thinking about that .


----------



## FLTWS

Note also I edited my last post.


----------



## draytonklammer

There is a regular Danacable used up for sale that I'm considering. 

Not sure if the reference would be worth the extra. 

Don't even see how much a normal Danacable is for the Abyss on their website.


----------



## FLTWS

Not sure they normally do the original Lazuli for the Abyss (just Reference and Ultra are listed) but you could always contact them and see about a special order. But, they may not have the same policy on returns for a custom item so I'd ask about that.


----------



## draytonklammer

Supposedly there's a Lazuli I can buy for the Abyss but I find it weird that it's not a Reference if the site only has Ref/Ult.


----------



## Quantumbody

Can anyone help me?

I am looking for an adapter which allows me to use a double helix cables prion4 cable, 
which is terminated in abyss ab1266 mini Xlr plugs, 
with focal utopia headphones.

Dhc make such an adapter, but is is expensive, and they have not replied to the two emails that I have sent them, in which I asked for the total length of the adapter which plugs into the utopia headphones.

Thank you for any help.


----------



## draytonklammer

I hate to say this because of the money involved, but you may want to get the actual DHC adapter, or you might as well resell the cable.

I really can't decide if a Lazuli Abyss cable is worth it to me or not. 

DHC is pretty expensive.

I've heard generally good things about Danacable with the Abyss. 

I also wonder if copper would benefit me more than silver is currently.


----------



## FLTWS (Dec 2, 2018)

draytonklammer said:


> I hate to say this because of the money involved, but you may want to get the actual DHC adapter, or you might as well resell the cable.
> 
> I really can't decide if a Lazuli Abyss cable is worth it to me or not.
> 
> ...



No easy answers there, a generalization in my experience; copper is rich, warm, full bodied on the bottom and softer on top. Silver may be more transparent but also a little brighter which may make the bottom end sound less prominent even if its not. The Ultra is supposed to use a touch of silver with copper in the mix which is one reason why the price is what it is.

Personally I would probably not match silver with either my HD800 or Utopia but works fine with my Phi, (and for my tastes).

Unfortunately there is no lending library as can be found with IC's and speaker cables (I think) to do home comparisons with. Unless you live in reasonable proximity to a dealer that has several variety's of HP cables and a way to listen to (and examine ergonomics) of different ones with the same HP it's a gigantic crap shoot. I know, I've flushed more than a few dollars down that toilet


----------



## draytonklammer

Decisions decisions...
I appreciate the response. 

I'm not saying the silver Lavricable I have now is slouching, I just feel like I could do a hair better on build quality.


----------



## Quantumbody

Draytonklammer

Thank you for the advice.

I was just wondering if anyone else made an abyss cable to utopia headphones adapter.

Also, just how long would I have to wait if I ordered a dhc adapter?
I am a bit put-off that dhc do not seem to be bothered to answer either of my emails.


----------



## cradon

Just get the cable reterminated. I had Trevor at DHC do mine, it only cost about $35.


----------



## Thenewguy007

cradon said:


> Just get the cable reterminated. I had Trevor at DHC do mine, it only cost about $35.



How long did it take?


----------



## cradon

I think it was three weeks.


----------



## Quantumbody

Cradon

Thank you, reterminating is not an option.
I also own abyss headphones and use the prion4 cable with these.

I like the cable so much that it would be great if I was also able to use it with the focal utopia headphones.
Hence my enquiry about the existence of an adapter: abyss cable used with utopia headphones.

As I said in my earlier message, dhc make an adapter, but they are not returning my emails, and it is quite expensive.
I still wonder if anyone else makes a suitable adapter.

Thank you


----------



## ufospls2

Quantumbody said:


> Cradon
> 
> Thank you, reterminating is not an option.
> I also own abyss headphones and use the prion4 cable with these.
> ...



Give Trevor at Norne Cables a shot


----------



## Quantumbody

UFO

Thank you, I will try Noren cables later today.


----------



## Quantumbody

I have just been on the Norse audio web site.
Based on a general Search, they do not seem to sell any cables that use focal utopia connectors!

Pity, their prices seem to be most reasonable.

As you suggested, I will send an email to Trevor.

Thank you, again.


----------



## ufospls2

Quantumbody said:


> I have just been on the Norse audio web site.
> Based on a general Search, they do not seem to sell any cables that use focal utopia connectors!
> 
> Pity, their prices seem to be most reasonable.
> ...



Trevor does a lot of custom jobs, and I have seen cables by him that use the Utopia LEMO connectors. He should be able to help you out


----------



## Quantumbody

Great.
I have just sent an email to Norse, explaining my requirements.

I really appreciate your help, thank you.


----------



## mulder01

Quantumbody said:


> Cradon
> 
> Thank you, reterminating is not an option.
> I also own abyss headphones and use the prion4 cable with these.
> ...


You're willing to buy multiple 4-figure flagship headphones and 4-figure aftermarket flagship cables, but the adapter is too expensive?  Really?


----------



## FLTWS

Good point!


----------



## Quantumbody

Mulder01

I wonder if you slightly mis-read my message which was asking for help.

I said that the adapter was a bit expensive, and that I had not received any response to the two emails I had sent to dhc.

Hence, I was just asking if anyone would be able to suggest another supplier.
Thankfully a member did reply with a very helpful suggestion.

No problem, we all have a tendency to skip-read messages.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

made a video on the new ABYSS ear pads.


----------



## phase0

I know someone is thinking it, even if just me. Sell your Focals and then you don't need the adapter. Abyss is better anyways. I was happy to get rid of my Focals after I heard the Phi. Really what sealed it for me was listening to the Utopia at the Woo Audio room and then listening to other stuff like Abyss, Stax, and Susvara and having that immediate feedback. I used to think the Utopia were pretty good


----------



## mulder01

What's the black cloth thing Mike?


----------



## ufospls2

mulder01 said:


> What's the black cloth thing Mike?



The thing that the headphones are sitting on in the video? Thats the "Abyss" velour(?) bag that comes with every package.


----------



## Mystel

Just received the CC pads today
Initial impressions is that my favourite headphones just got better. 
What i noticed immediately is the incredible improvement in the sense of space... oh my


----------



## HiFiGuy528

mulder01 said:


> What's the black cloth thing Mike?



It's the pouch that comes with ABYSS. You may be able to buy it from ABYSS separately.


----------



## ra990 (Jul 27, 2018)

Just got the CC pads today and have to agree with consensus. They add some more refinement to an already amazing headphone. They do improve on the soundstage and bass is very clean and extended. No complaints.


----------



## mulder01

HiFiGuy528 said:


> It's the pouch that comes with ABYSS. You may be able to buy it from ABYSS separately.





ufospls2 said:


> The thing that the headphones are sitting on in the video? Thats the "Abyss" velour(?) bag that comes with every package.



Cheers guys, I didn't get one with mine but I purchased it a long time ago.  I have been using the soft cloth bag my omega headphone stand came in when transporting mine


----------



## simorag

CC pads arrived here as well. I am in the middle of the evaluation of another potential upgrade of my system, so I won't try them for another week or so - hard to resist given all the nice reports 

Just wanted to comment that the JPS Labs approach to their flagship headphone is quite unique in the market, to my knowledge. After 5 years from the release of the original AB-1266, not only this headphone is still regarded among the best available, but a consistent upgrade path has been offered to users over the years (Phi drivers, CC Pads, Superconductor cables) to consolidate the hefty investment made on this expensive piece of gear.

Also, original part replacements and or customization (headband and even the frame) allow for long term maintenance and best fitting.

All these upgrades / customization options are sure not cheap, and JPS sure must make a very good profit out of them, but I feel it is a much more serious and reliable customer approach compared to the most common practice of releasing flagships superseding other flagships every year or even less.


----------



## llamaluv

So, yesterday I walked into a local shop (In Living Stereo in NYC) with the intention of just auditioning the Egoista 845 amp for fun, but ended up walking out with a new Abyss Phi. 

I've been buying/selling/accumulating an irresponsible number of high-end headphones over the last period of time, but with the Abyss, I thiiink that could to be coming to an end, as they are really checking all my boxes. E.g., it's immediately clear to me that they render my LCD-4s -- which I only just got recently -- all but obsolete, as they do for me everything I like about the LCD-4, only better, on all counts. Over the longer term, I can envision the same thing happening with one or two other headphones I own as well, but we'll see.

I also wanted to note that a quick email exchange with Vinh/DanaCable just last night has led to an upcoming Monday delivery of the Lazuli Reference, which is just a ridiculously positive turn-around time.


----------



## draytonklammer

llamaluv said:


> So, yesterday I walked into a local shop (In Living Stereo in NYC) with the intention of just auditioning the Egoista 845 amp for fun, but ended up walking out with a new Abyss Phi.
> 
> I've been buying/selling/accumulating an irresponsible number of high-end headphones over the last period of time, but with the Abyss, I thiiink that could to be coming to an end, as they are really checking all my boxes. E.g., it's immediately clear to me that they render my LCD-4s -- which I only just got recently -- all but obsolete, as they do for me everything I like about the LCD-4, only better, on all counts. Over the longer term, I can envision the same thing happening with one or two other headphones I own as well, but we'll see.
> 
> I also wanted to note that a quick email exchange with Vinh/DanaCable just last night has led to an upcoming Monday delivery of the Lazuli Reference, which is just a ridiculously positive turn-around time.



It feels like a clear step up from the other TOTL headphones for me.
The Abyss (Abyss Phi (CC) Now) represents the best in this class of headphones.

I have never heard a headphone like it (although the HE1 does an absolutely killer job)

The Abyss has been my TOTL of choice since about July-August 2016. Before then, I bounced around TOTL headphones for awhile. I even had a period where the Focal Utopia really sang for me (probably 3-6 months) but I am always back to the Abyss.

I really need to bite the bullet and grab a Lazuli Reference or JPS Superconductor at some point, though.
Kind of waiting on my Moon Neo 430HA(D) to sell before then, though.


----------



## llamaluv

draytonklammer said:


> The Abyss has been my TOTL of choice


I can see why (now). 

My only regret is that the Abyss's uh... unconventional styling... had kept me away from giving it any serious consideration for so long (haha).



draytonklammer said:


> I even had a period where the Focal Utopia really sang for me (probably 3-6 months)



I've had a similar experience with the Utopia, yea...


----------



## vortrex

Which dealers have good pricing on the Abyss?  Feel free to send me a PM.  Thanks!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

FLTWS said:


> No easy answers there, a generalization in my experience; copper is rich, warm, full bodied on the bottom and softer on top. Silver may be more transparent but also a little brighter which may make the bottom end sound less prominent even if its not. The Ultra is supposed to use a touch of silver with copper in the Ultra which is one reason why the price is what it is.
> 
> Personally I would probably not match silver with either my HD800 or Utopia but works fine with my Phi, (and for my tastes).
> 
> Unfortunately there is no lending library as can be found with IC's and speaker cables (I think) to do home comparisons with. Unless you live in reasonable proximity to a dealer that has several variety's of HP cables and a way to listen to (and examine ergonomics) of different ones with the same HP it's a gigantic crap shoot. I know, I've flushed more than a few dollars down that toilet



You might want to try the Norne Audio Draug Silver, a big grain of salt since I'm speaking of the experience of ears I trust; report that it's an excellent match for both the Utopia and HD800. Additionally, Norne cables are reasonably priced compared to, equivalent products.


----------



## Thenewguy007

llamaluv said:


> So, yesterday I walked into a local shop (In Living Stereo in NYC) with the intention of just auditioning the Egoista 845 amp for fun, but ended up walking out with a new Abyss Phi.
> 
> I've been buying/selling/accumulating an irresponsible number of high-end headphones over the last period of time, but with the Abyss, I thiiink that could to be coming to an end, as they are really checking all my boxes. E.g., it's immediately clear to me that they render my LCD-4s -- which I only just got recently -- all but obsolete, as they do for me everything I like about the LCD-4, only better, on all counts. Over the longer term, I can envision the same thing happening with one or two other headphones I own as well, but we'll see.
> 
> I also wanted to note that a quick email exchange with Vinh/DanaCable just last night has led to an upcoming Monday delivery of the Lazuli Reference, which is just a ridiculously positive turn-around time.



Did you get to audition the Egoista with the Abyss?


----------



## llamaluv (Jul 28, 2018)

Thenewguy007 said:


> Did you get to audition the Egoista with the Abyss?


Yea! The amp sounds outstanding. Effortless and dynamic and really natural-sounding (they keep it connected to a Naim DAC, which I'm unfamiliar with). Acoustic instruments in particular have never sounded so good to me. Pianos sound like pianos, and jazz percussion has a really convincing, tactile bite.

I listened to the amp connected to the LCD-4 and then the Utopia for a fair amount of time. Trying it with the Abyss wasn't really on my agenda, but I figured I should, and the sound was on a whole other level to me (though to be fair, I'm plenty familiar with the Utopia and LCD-4, and this was my first time being properly exposed to the Abyss' very specific presentation qualities).

Five minutes was all I needed to be positive that I had to have them (the headphones, I mean). The amp too, but that's a whole different level of indulgence and for another day (month or year, more like, haha).

Luckily, running the Abyss at home on my own system hasn't felt like a "letdown" in any way. Over time, I've been favoring my tube amp more and more over solid state with just about every headphone that's made its way thru my setup, but connected to Abyss is the most satisfied I've been with my GS-X mk2 for quite some time (for now at least).


----------



## draytonklammer

Still looking for more cable opinions.
I've been thinking copper would likely be more beneficial for the Abyss than silver/mixed.

Been looking at Norne, Danacable and the JPS Superconductor.

(1/4" termination for my DAVE)


----------



## ra990

I noticed that the new pads make it easy to get a good fit as soon as I put the headphones on. I had to fidget for a minute with the old ones.


----------



## FLTWS

ra990 said:


> I noticed that the new pads make it easy to get a good fit as soon as I put the headphones on. I had to fidget for a minute with the old ones.



Yes. No gaps.


----------



## simorag (Aug 1, 2018)

Just in case somebody is interested, here is my take about the subject "*Is it worth adding an external amp to the Chord DAVE to drive the Abyss Phi?*":

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-782#post-14394739

Cheers 
Simone


----------



## Savage4

Anyone knows how much different phi cc sounds compared to phi?


----------



## matthewhypolite

Savage4 said:


> Anyone knows how much different phi cc sounds compared to phi?



Well seeing that the CC is essentially the Phi with new earpads and a new paintjob, anybody with the new pads can give comparisons. From what i've heard the new paint does not do much to the sound, more so the pads.

Having been listening to the new pads for a couple of days i can give early impressions.

So far they seem to bring more refinement to an already great can. The new earpads seem to make the music cleaner and as a result i'm noticing that bit more of detail retrieval and resolution. There is definitely more space, and the bass is a bit more detailed and refined. Basically makes everything better lol. O, and they are more comfortable. 

If you've already dished out $4500+ on these headphones, the extra for these new pads are a new brainer imo. Overall i think they offer more improvement to the sound than a cable upgrade, which can cost anywhere from 3-7 times the cost of these pads. TLDR go get the pads, and if you're in the market for a new Abyss, mite as well go straight CC.

I'm glad these upgrade options were made available to owners, from the headbands, original earpad replacements, phi upgrade, cable upgrades and now earpad upgrades.
Always a path available to me to upgrade as they iterate on the headphones and never felt like my investment was gutted by a future headphone release 6 months later


----------



## Savage4

matthewhypolite said:


> Well seeing that the CC is essentially the Phi with new earpads and a new paintjob, anybody with the new pads can give comparisons. From what i've heard the new paint does not do much to the sound, more so the pads.
> 
> Having been listening to the new pads for a couple of days i can give early impressions.
> 
> ...


Really appreciate your sharing man! I’m choosing between a brand new $5000 phi cc or a $3400 demo phi. CC looks nicer in my opinion


----------



## matthewhypolite

Savage4 said:


> Really appreciate your sharing man! I’m choosing between a brand new $5000 phi cc or a $3400 demo phi. CC looks nicer in my opinion



If those are your options, let's look at the end cost.

$3400 Phi + $395 CC Earpads = $3795 for essentially a CC without the paint job.

So what you have to ask yourself, is if $1205 is worth the paintjob and the fact that you are getting a new unit. Also, will the Demo unit have any warranty? That should be considered also.
If it does have warranty, it may be a worth saving the 1200. if it doesnt, for that kinda of $, id just go New CC.


----------



## Savage4

matthewhypolite said:


> If those are your options, let's look at the end cost.
> 
> $3400 Phi + $395 CC Earpads = $3795 for essentially a CC without the paint job.
> 
> ...


Ya good point. I think the demo one has full warranty. Hell of a paint lol


----------



## Àedhàn Cassiel

Would a Lyr 2 suffice at least for testing out the Abyss?


----------



## FLTWS

One aspect of the CC's I like is the redesign of the attachment plate. It makes it more flexible and coupled with the stronger magnets completely eliminates any gaping that could affect the sound. Whenever I took off the old pads to wipe clean with a damp cloth I always had to check the contact points all around the seal to insure no gaps. The thicker pads seem to be a non-event with regard to the fit as the venting holes around the outside of the ear pad allow it to compress more easily and comfort is the same.


----------



## simorag

Àedhàn Cassiel said:


> Would a Lyr 2 suffice at least for testing out the Abyss?



Hello, 

based on its specifications - unfortunately I never heard one - the Lyr 2 outputs 4W on 50Ohm, so power-wise, it should be able to drive the Abyss with ease, especially the Phi version. Therefore, if you want to experience their bass slam and impactful, speaker-like presentation, you should be fine!

One thing I noticed about the Abyss is that they are very revealing and they scale extremely well as long as you keep upgrading your components.

On the other hand, they are able to expose the limitations of the weakest-link within a chain, and sound bright compared to your LCD-3 and less resolving than your HD800.

When I first got the Abyss Phi, I kept doing A/B testing for a few months against my HD800S (now sold), and, while the improvement in some areas like bass extension, vocals and soundstage depth were quite obvious immediately, the dramatic upgrade over the HD800S on many other parameters - including resolution and microdynamics - became apparent to my ears (i.e. consistent with the premium price) only when I upgraded my DAC/amp (it was an Audio GD NOS11) as well.

So, while I am confident you are going to like the Abyss since day 1, if you are like me there are chances these will ignite a very expensive upgrade cycle, so be careful


----------



## matthewhypolite

simorag said:


> Hello,
> So, while I am confident you are going to like the Abyss since day 1, if you are like me there are chances these will ignite a very expensive upgrade cycle, so be careful



Man, I'm currently on a WA33 Elite + Nos Tubes (close to $20k). And looking to sell my Yggy and go to an MSB Discrete maybe later this year.
I think you're being too soft by just saying be careful


----------



## llamaluv (Aug 3, 2018)

Thirty minutes in with the new $400 earpads and so far I approve, outrageous markup be damned. Imaging is better and more stable, which makes it easier to appreciate the soundstage. Best of all, no more fussing around with breaking the seal by just the right amount and enflaming one's latent audiophilia nervosa in the process. I'm just going to wear these new earpads like I would with any normal full-sized headphones, with a typically comfortable seal and with the pads rotated to the most natural position...

Edit: Okay I lied, doing the usual "toe-ing in" of the earpads still turns on the turbo boost in the lower bass. Which is fine, too


----------



## Savage4

Really appreciate all the inputs so far. Another question for you guys: does anyone feel like the bass on abyss 1266 phi is overwhelming? I’m driving my demo unit with Lau H gain and even though I really enjoyed the bass impact my ears hurt even with okay volume (7-8 o’clock). It felt like two subwoofers hanging on my head. Kinda reminds me of campfire audio cascade. I did not experience such an issue with any other cans


----------



## matthewhypolite (Aug 3, 2018)

Savage4 said:


> Really appreciate all the inputs so far. Another question for you guys: does anyone feel like the bass on abyss 1266 phi is overwhelming? I’m driving my demo unit with Lau H gain and even though I really enjoyed the bass impact my ears hurt even with okay volume (7-8 o’clock). It felt like two subwoofers hanging on my head. Kinda reminds me of campfire audio cascade. I did not experience such an issue with any other cans



The bass can be adjusted based on the rotation of the earpads, and the width of the headphones. I've found that moving the drivers closer to your ears dials the bass back. So try that first. The headband can also be tilted inward and outward for more adjustment in sound. Just play with it till you get the sound you like.

My personal config is:
Earpads barely touching my face
Stiching on earpads adjusted to 1pm (Stiching facing front)
Headband bent slightly inward (towards front)


----------



## FLTWS

No. Reflects the recording, no more, no less.


----------



## jlbrach

the phi is a difficult to adjust HP but well worth the effort


----------



## Mystel

I agree with what  the others have said before me
I feel that most people that comment Phi's bass overwhelming or overquantified with no quality doesnt actually have much experience with the Abyss themselves 
Abyss is a unique HP, what people that just try them on for like a few minutes at noisy shows and meets or are new to the abyss dont realize that the fit plays a huge role in sound 
Personally, i find the bass 'overwhelming' with the left earcup at around 3-5 o clock. My current fit is about 1 o clock, which i find to be optimal, but it might be different for most people.
With that, the Abyss has by far the best bass ive heard in any headphone and ive owned almost every flagship. Period.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Mystel said:


> I agree with what  the others have said before me
> I feel that most people that comment Phi's bass overwhelming or overquantified with no quality doesnt actually have much experience with the Abyss themselves
> Abyss is a unique HP, what people that just try them on for like a few minutes at noisy shows and meets or are new to the abyss dont realize that the fit plays a huge role in sound
> Personally, i find the bass 'overwhelming' with the left earcup at around 3-5 o clock. My current fit is about 1 o clock, which i find to be optimal, but it might be different for most people.
> With that, the Abyss has by far the best bass ive heard in any headphone and ive owned almost every flagship. Period.



1pm seems to be the sweet spot. That's the same position I referenced above. And 100% agree with your sentiments re:fit. Takes some time to tweak but once you have your fit dialed in, man o man do the abyss sound good.


----------



## weasel1979 (Aug 4, 2018)

Hi Abyss fans, I might join the club shortly.
I am interested in a used Abyss 1266 (non Phi). The seller says, that it's from 12/2017. My question is: Did they still sell the old 1266 AFTER the Phi was introduced?
Thanks.


----------



## FLTWS

weasel1979 said:


> Hi Abyss fans, I might join the club shortly.
> I am interested in a used Abyss 1266. The seller says, that is from 12/2017. My question is: Did they still sell the old 1266 AFTER the Phi was introduced?
> Thanks.



Phi's (to my knowledge) have this symbol on the inside of the driver housing (facing your ears).




There is a least 1 pic in this thread back at time of Phi introduction that shows it clearly.


----------



## ufospls2 (Aug 4, 2018)

weasel1979 said:


> Hi Abyss fans, I might join the club shortly.
> I am interested in a used Abyss 1266. The seller says, that is from 12/2017. My question is: Did they still sell the old 1266 AFTER the Phi was introduced?
> Thanks.



Its certainly possible that pairs of old 1266 were hanging around dealers unsold after the introduction of the Phi. As far as I know none were actually _produced_ after the introduction of the Phi (Joe can correct me on that one if I am wrong.) The Phi driver is clearly marked, like in the pic below.






And here is an original driver







Hope that helps


----------



## FLTWS (Aug 7, 2018)

Regarding bass quality and quantity; assuming I've adjusted the fit correctly for the contours of my noggin to get the most linear response up and down the frequency scale, it's up to the quality of the recording at that point more than anything.
A bass light phone may sound just right when I run across a recording that had volume boosted for some reason in the lows, (pretty common I think with a lot of popular music).
And vice versa.
Lots of my older recordings from the 50's thru 70's for full blown orchestra didn't provide bass the way modern recordings do.
Maybe a combination of the recording equipment of the day and the fact that as there were made primarily for mastering LP's and  they needed to keep recording levels such that they could cut a master that would keep the stylus in the record groove on playback of content with big bass sound.
I've got a current digital recording where it sounds like a spotlight mic was placed inside the bass drum, it made me laugh the first time I played it, (I still chuckle a bit).
I have another recording that sounds like I'm back in the concert hall hearing bass drum thwacks almost exactly like I heard it in the concert hall the day after the night before.
If one were to take a recording and use an equalizer to make it sound flat from 20Hz to 100Hz on say an HD800 and then swap out the HD800 for a Phi, what might one expect?
It all starts at the recording in my estimation.
Crappy recordings sound fine on crappy gear. As the gear becomes less crappy it will out those recordings.
Just my 2 cents.


----------



## astrostar59

matthewhypolite said:


> Man, I'm currently on a WA33 Elite + Nos Tubes (close to $20k). And looking to sell my Yggy and go to an MSB Discrete maybe later this year.
> I think you're being too soft by just saying be careful


I would look at this for your next DAC, my journey ended here....
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/a-new-high-end-dac-in-town.878459/


----------



## matthewhypolite

astrostar59 said:


> I would look at this for your next DAC, my journey ended here....
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/a-new-high-end-dac-in-town.878459/



I'll have a look, what's the retail price?


----------



## Xecuter

matthewhypolite said:


> I'll have a look, what's the retail price?



18k euro


----------



## draytonklammer

Okay guys. 

Silver or copper cable for your Abyss Phi?

I ask because I am either going to drop a fortune on a crazy silver cable or I can save a lot by getting a high quality copper cable.
I am open to either option though.

Current cable is a Lavri http://www.lavricables.com/cables/master-silver-abyss-ab-1266-upgrade-cable/


----------



## Xecuter

I think copper plays best with Abyss. Even a cheap OCC was much better than stock.


----------



## vortrex

Xecuter said:


> I think copper plays best with Abyss. Even a cheap OCC was much better than stock.



The stock cable sells for something like $900.  Do you really think it's that bad?


----------



## draytonklammer

vortrex said:


> The stock cable sells for something like $900.  Do you really think it's that bad?



I would agree in general that the stock cable is bad.
Every cable I have used has been better, not to mention the stock cable is very poorly constructed IMO.


----------



## FLTWS (Aug 5, 2018)

I think the stock cable sounds very good, I just didn't care for its rigidness. I like real flexible HP cables, especially as I always get 10 foot lengths for use with my home theater as well as audio gear. When I auditioned the Sonoma 1 and HEK V1, same issue with stiffness. Can't think of any others off the top of my head but there are probably some others like that.

I hedged my bets on the Phi with a copper & silver blend that I think sounds best with these planar magnetics. For my HD800 and Utopia it was all copper addon cables from the get go, seems to work best to my ears.


----------



## Xecuter

vortrex said:


> The stock cable sells for something like $900.  Do you really think it's that bad?



I don't associate cost with quality.
I think the stock cable is a really bad match with Abyss. Most forums suggest it as the first thing to switch out to get more out of them.


----------



## draytonklammer

Xecuter said:


> I don't associate cost with quality.
> I think the stock cable is a really bad match with Abyss. Most forums suggest it as the first thing to switch out to get more out of them.



Highly agree ^
I have used cables in the $300-500 range that were better with the Abyss Phi than stock.

Now if only I could decide on a new cable, as I feel that the Lavri I have could be improved upon.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Right now I have a dhc spore 4 fusion, it was suggested to go to the prion S flagship silver. But all this cable talk here lately I'm keeping my options open


----------



## draytonklammer (Aug 5, 2018)

I don't feel like I could ever justify a DHC cable to myself with Norne/Dana around.
Their prices are fairly outrageous. (Yes, I know, I have a very expensive headphone and a Chord Dave, but I mainly buy a cable for durability/looks myself.)

I mean no offense either! Just to make sure that's known...
I respect DHC just as much as the other companies I mentioned -- just not their prices.


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Aug 5, 2018)

I wouldn't suggest the stock cable is a bad match, I sort of designed it that way. 


I understand the choice of cables is highly dependent on your system, electronics, other cables in the system, experience level, tastes, music etc. IMO it should be the opposite, the short cut is to tune the system around the Ph and our cable. Only trouble is this tends to limit choice, that and cables are so much easier to swap than gear.

The stock cable was designed to be clear to the source with very good frequency extremes, fairly neutral, not a tone control, very good at conveying harmonic structure. It will tell you when something is right, and when it's wrong. It's quite good at exposing the system and recording for what it is, which explains why some may not like it up front. Don't blame the messenger. When placed within a well tuned system the stock cable is proper, if anything maybe just slightly on the lean side of neutral given it's clear sound. In a system tuned for ABYSS, the stock cable is quite good. Keep in mind that when new they're require about 100 hours of play time to break-in, that and your brain needs to become accustomed to the new acoustic.

I can certainly understand the need fro some to go to copper conductors. Copper has a comfortable softness to the highs, a natural warmth, a bit more pleasing for recordings that tend to be a bit too hot up top as most digital playback tends to be.

What I'm getting at here is if you don't like the sound of the stock cable, changing it is certainly a simple thing to do, and is why JPS Labs has an upgraded Superconductor HP, adding a bit more fullness to the upper bass and mids while flushing out even more inner detail. By all means try out offerings from other companies, it ultimately may bring you a better understating of where center is. My suggestion however is to refer to our stock cable as a sort of reference, something that like the headphone has not been altered. One day in the future, assuming you've spent a good few years optimizing your system around the ABYSS, go back to that stock cable and see what it [really] sounds like.


----------



## astrostar59

matthewhypolite said:


> I'll have a look, what's the retail price?



It's 18K Euros.


----------



## simorag (Aug 6, 2018)

Xecuter said:


> I think the stock cable is a really bad match with Abyss.



I beg to differ on this. To my personal taste, when I compared the stock cable with the Dana Lazuli Reference and the DHC Prion 4 I had the impression that these three cables are in the same league, while having three different signatures. The Lazuli is luscious and warm, but not as transparent, the Prion4 is the king of detail and speed, with some dryness in the bass, while the stock is centered between the two as perhaps the most neutral and excels in terms of dynamics and visceral impact to my ears.

I had the impression (here are more details) that it was very carefully tuned to match the strengths of the Abyss and expose them at best.

What I definitely don't like about the stock cable is its look and feel, and that was the main reason I started looking for a cable upgrade in the first place.

I am happy now with my Prion4 which I bought 2nd hand after my evaluation above, but in terms of sound-quality increase value for money, the investment is hard to justify even at used price, let alone retail.

By the way, knowing how much know-how JPS Labs has in cables and how painstakingly they work on tuning / matching / synergizing (just think about the new CC pads, or even about the collaborations they had over the years with amplifier designers), I would have gone with the JPS Superconductor HP if I had the chance of getting an used / ex-demo one at a decent price, but at the time I made my purchase none was available, and I was not ready to spend >2k on a cable.
​


draytonklammer said:


> I don't feel like I could ever justify a DHC cable to myself with Norne/Dana around.
> Their prices are fairly outrageous. (Yes, I know, I have a very expensive headphone and a Chord Dave, but I mainly buy a cable for durability/looks myself.)
> 
> I mean no offense either! Just to make sure that's known...
> I respect DHC just as much as the other companies I mentioned -- just not their prices.



Well, just to be sure we compare apples to apples, the DHC Prion4 price is similar to the Danacable Lazuli Ultra and to the JPS Superconductor (and lower than pure silver Kimber Kable Axios), and other DHC models like the Complement4 are, depending on options (e.g. amount of silver vs. copper), in the Norne / Danacable Lazuli or Lazuli Reference price range.



draytonklammer said:


> Okay guys.
> 
> Silver or copper cable for your Abyss Phi?



One thing I noticed when I tried the Prion4 and the Lazuli Reference was that not all stereotypes about silver vs copper are necessarily true. For example, to my ears the best option for taming brightness / treble harshness was the silver Prion4 thanks to its very extended but liquid, grain-free presentation, while I was taking for granted that the Lazuli Ref. was the best at this.

So, without an extended listening within your system and according to your music preferences (music types, preferred signature, etc.), I suspect it would be very difficult to pick the best option.
​Danacable guys have a very generous return policy, and you could get the Lazuli Reference (copper) and Ultra (copper + silver) and decide which one to keep over your 30 days return period.
If you are lucky, they could also have a good deal on an ex-demo unit.

Perhaps other vendors or stores allow that as well...


----------



## FLTWS (Aug 6, 2018)

Deleted.


----------



## FLTWS (Aug 6, 2018)

Joe Skubinski said:


> I wouldn't suggest the stock cable is a bad match, I sort of designed it that way.
> 
> I understand the choice of cables is highly dependent on your system, electronics, other cables in the system, experience level, tastes, music etc. IMO it should be the opposite, the short cut is to tune the system around the Ph and our cable. Only trouble is this tends to limit choice, that and cables are so much easier to swap than gear.
> 
> ...



I listen to a lot of pre-digital era anolog recordings and in my case a little forgiveness (one could call it distortion or coloration's if they like, I don't mind) in a variety of areas is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. And I have returned to the stock cable on a few occasions since buying my Phi to re-confirm my impressions. But the stock cable is not a "bad" sounding cable by any stretch of my imagination (but I didn't care for the ergonomics). I just have a personal preference for a different sound profile. The ultimate in reproduced sound accuracy isn't always the ultimate in sound enjoyment for me, especially when I consider the recorded quality of most of the available source material available to me in all genres of music.


----------



## llamaluv

draytonklammer said:


> Current cable is a Lavri


Out of curiosity, how do you like your Lavricable on the Abyss? And do you notice any differences, good or bad, compared to the stock cable?

I use the Lavricables Grand 20 Silver with my HEKv2 and actually like that specific combination very much.


----------



## draytonklammer

llamaluv said:


> Out of curiosity, how do you like your Lavricable on the Abyss? And do you notice any differences, good or bad, compared to the stock cable?
> 
> I use the Lavricables Grand 20 Silver with my HEKv2 and actually like that specific combination very much.



At minimum, I prefer it to the stock cable just due to the better build quality alone.
It's easier to move around, lighter, terminated how I need it to be terminated and not as flimsy.
By that, I mean, with my original stock cables (which were used by another) it would cut out sometimes because of a fault in the wire itself + it just looked awful on the terminated ends (both sides)
I know the previous owner didn't really rough up any of his stuff (I purchased a ton with him, all in great condition, including other cables) so that says a lot to me about the way it's built.
That being said, Joe did fix the cable up when I sent in my Abyss for the Phi upgrade, so as always, kudos to JPS Labs/Abyss Headphones for keeping their work in tip top shape. Joe and the team are fantastic. Easy people to support.
Hell, if the superconductor weren't crazy overpriced, I would own one of those, too, mainly because I like how thick/strong it looks (probably won't ever break down short of a decade or two lol) and it matches the Abyss so well.
If it were more like ~$1000 for a 6' cable (more in line with every other cable makers prices) I would buy it in a heart beat. That and I don't know what connector they would use for 1/4" as there is no picture on the website. Only XLR, which look amazing.


----------



## llamaluv

simorag said:


> To my personal taste, when I compared the stock cable with the Dana Lazuli Reference and the DHC Prion 4 I had the impression that these three cables are in the same league, while having three different signatures. The Lazuli is luscious and warm, but not as transparent, the Prion4 is the king of detail and speed, with some dryness in the bass, while the stock is centered between the two as perhaps the most neutral and excels in terms of dynamics and visceral impact to my ears.



I just spent some time comparing the stock cable with the Danacable Lazuli Reference, and I think I hear it quite similar to how you've described it here and in a previous post. 

The Danacable is a little warmer and a little smoother. The stock is a little more dynamic and livelier, brighter and possibly more resolving. The first time I switched from the Dana to stock, my immediate impression was that it sounded louder, which surprised me. The Danacable's bass is more controlled. Also, bass notes of a lower volume have a more audible sustain (very subtle, but was able to isolate this difference on a specific track). The stock cable has a little more slam. The Danacable is a little more "refined", the stock a little more "energetic".

The differences between these two cables on the Abyss were greater than what I'm used to when comparing headphone cables. Not "night and day" by any means, but enough to have some significance. Like you previously described, I don't think it's a slam dunk for one over the other.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Savage4 said:


> Anyone knows how much different phi cc sounds compared to phi?



I will have an update out in a few weeks on the differences with the Phi + regular pads and Phi + CC pads. But a quick summary - totally worth getting the new pads IMO (more details of course will be in the review update on Headphone.Guru).


----------



## spotforscott

I wasn't fully satisfied with the standard Abyss cable. As has been mentioned, it's not a "bad" cable, it just wasn't engaging enough for me musically speaking. I found myself "hearing" the music but not "feeling it". The biggest point of disconnection for me was vocals. I just found them to be too recessed and lacking in body/ warmth. To be fair to the cable, part of my reaction is due to my ears. I had them tested, and my hearing has a bit of a dip in the mid- range - an unusual result from what I am told. 

After reading many reviews and thoughts on this board, I decided to purchase a 6' Danacable Lazuli Reference cable (1/4" terminated). It was definitely a step in the right direction for my ears. It was warmer and more engaging to my ears but I was really curious about the JPS Superconductor HP cable based upon a review done by audiobacon so I decided to give JPS Superconductor a try. After burning in the SC cable for 125 hours, I have been comparing these 2 cables head to head. 

I largely agree with the audiobacon review. For my ears and favorite music genre (vocals, jazz, rock), the SC cable really hits the mark. The differences with vocals to my ears, is not subtle. As Jay says in his review: "_I love how it adds that warm-bodied sound to vocals which gives it that human characteristic. This reason alone makes the cables a worthy upgrade" _.However, to be fair, there is a trade-off. You do lose some transparency and air with the SC cable but to my ears, the tradeoff is definitely worth it (YMMV). 

For the first time since owning the Abyss Phi HP's I found myself listening for hours per session and not wanting to stop. I just love the life that the SC cable adds to the music. Further, through the testing process, I found myself not wanting to stop and change to the Lazuli reference cable because I was enjoying the music so much. 

As you have heard from many others, the Danacable is loved and for good reason, it's a great cable, particularly for those that value it's advantages over the standard cable (warmth) and the SC cable (transparency and air). I have even heard of those that have gone back to the standard cable after trying the SC cable but that won't be the case for me, I am done searching for the HP cable!

Thanks @Joe Skubinski, the JPS Superconductor HP cable is truly awesome!

Will be posting my Lazuli Reference cable in for sale section in the next day or two in case anyone is interested.


----------



## draytonklammer

If it weren't super expensive I would own one .


----------



## FLTWS

spotforscott said:


> I wasn't fully satisfied with the standard Abyss cable. As has been mentioned, it's not a "bad" cable, it just wasn't engaging enough for me musically speaking. I found myself "hearing" the music but not "feeling it". The biggest point of disconnection for me was vocals. I just found them to be too recessed and lacking in body/ warmth. To be fair to the cable, part of my reaction is due to my ears. I had them tested, and my hearing has a bit of a dip in the mid- range - an unusual result from what I am told.
> 
> After reading many reviews and thoughts on this board, I decided to purchase a 6' Danacable Lazuli Reference cable (1/4" terminated). It was definitely a step in the right direction for my ears. It was warmer and more engaging to my ears but I was really curious about the JPS Superconductor HP cable based upon a review done by audiobacon so I decided to give JPS Superconductor a try. After burning in the SC cable for 125 hours, I have been comparing these 2 cables head to head.
> 
> ...



In theory a good component should be good with any genre of music. I keep telling myself that but I'm not sure I believe it, LOL!
As a classical music, and especially full blown orchestral works guy, when I audition or buy something I base it on how it sounds with my preferred type of music and don't sweat the other genres.
For myself, anything that brings me within arms reach of players may be okay with say quartets, Jazz or Rock, but not orchestral music where I need a little breathing room to enjoy it and get the "big" picture.


----------



## simorag

FLTWS said:


> In theory a good component should be good with any genre of music. I keep telling myself that but I'm not sure I believe it, LOL!



Yesterday I had a typical middle-age nostalgia attack, and I went on and listened to some heavy metal albums I was very passionate with when I was 18 (Kill'em all from Metallica among them).

This is way different from the mostly classical, some jazz and vocal music type - often audiophile-grade recordings - I am typically listening now, and I was expecting a so-so or even terrible outcome. High-end gear is sometimes equated to a somewhat boring and clinical presentation ...

It was the opposite  Foot tapping and head banging (moderate, due to the Abyss weight and fit - and inopinate, due to the unjust lack of hair that affected me in my adult life) started immediately and I was able to truly enjoy the experience, re-discovering physicality, details, bass lines and the energetic raw guitar and vocals of such music anew.

I tend to believe that a big part on this is played by the Abyss themselves, as I have found them very versatile and satisfying with all genres I tried … from Bach to Slayer now !


----------



## spotforscott

I agree, the Abyss is truly special with its ability to play any kind of music and do it well. I have not heard another headphone that is as versatile as the Abyss. I listened to some Led Zepplin last night and was great!

As far as headphone cables, I do believe there are trade-offs. If I listened to mostly classical, I would have probably stuck with either the base cable or the Lazuli Ref. But for more intimate ensembles (including rock), particularly with vocals, I definitely think the JPS SC is more engaging (YMMV).


----------



## matthewhypolite

spotforscott said:


> I wasn't fully satisfied with the standard Abyss cable. As has been mentioned, it's not a "bad" cable, it just wasn't engaging enough for me musically speaking. I found myself "hearing" the music but not "feeling it". The biggest point of disconnection for me was vocals. I just found them to be too recessed and lacking in body/ warmth. To be fair to the cable, part of my reaction is due to my ears. I had them tested, and my hearing has a bit of a dip in the mid- range - an unusual result from what I am told.
> 
> After reading many reviews and thoughts on this board, I decided to purchase a 6' Danacable Lazuli Reference cable (1/4" terminated). It was definitely a step in the right direction for my ears. It was warmer and more engaging to my ears but I was really curious about the JPS Superconductor HP cable based upon a review done by audiobacon so I decided to give JPS Superconductor a try. After burning in the SC cable for 125 hours, I have been comparing these 2 cables head to head.
> 
> ...



Interesting thoughts and also read the linked review.
Currently considering the Superconductor myself. Coming from a DHC Spore4 Fusion.
Was thinking about about PrisonS but it's alot of money, more than i can get the superconductor for. And i've been hearing good things about the SC lately.
Leaning in that direction.


----------



## spotforscott

In case someone is interested, I just put my Lazuli Ref cable up for sale


----------



## Zoomaz

I too have had the Lazuli Reference cable for the Phi but as good as the Ref is I now prefer the Superconductor cable for more engagement.
It just has that way of pulling you into the music with its rich and full bodied sound and while being very detailed.
After reading comments about the SC I was a bit worried that it was going to be too rich and lacking detail but it makes the Phi everything i hoped it would be after being unsatisfied with other Headphones and cable combinations.
The Danacable is probably the better buy cost wise but if one has the money, the SC is so worth it ( IMO)

Am too loving these new CC pads, maybe those who didn't like the SC cable so much before will have a different opinion with the new pads on ?


----------



## draytonklammer

Ugh, decisions decisions.

I'm between waiting on a Norne, buying that used Dana or buying a superconductor. Still wish I knew what the 1/4" termination looked like though.


----------



## spotforscott

Here is a pic of the 1/4 inch for the SC cable


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## draytonklammer

That's a good looking connector.

Makes me wish I could justify the price of the SC to myself, especially since I would need at least a six foot cable.


----------



## vortrex

That's one fat looking cable.  Is it heavy and unwieldy?


----------



## spotforscott

vortrex said:


> That's one fat looking cable.  Is it heavy and unwieldy?


Actually no. It is lighter than the Luzuli Reference cable and even feels lighter than the standard cable because the standard cable uses a 1/4" adapter (balanced connection) for a 1/4" connector. It's also very soft and flexible, really nice to the touch easy to maneuver.


----------



## llamaluv

Also, if anyone has any favorable impressions on any other cables not mentioned here in the last couple weeks, that would be great to hear about too. Especially if they happen to cost less than a new pair of b-stock LCD-3's, haha.


----------



## draytonklammer

llamaluv said:


> Also, if anyone has any favorable impressions on any other cables not mentioned here in the last couple weeks, that would be great to hear about too. Especially if they happen to cost less than a new pair of b-stock LCD-3's, haha.



I feel you there. Hell, honestly I would pay about that for a good end game cable at this point. Just so I can stop thinking about it.

I keep hoping someone puts their SC 1/4" up for sale 

I also recently contacted Norne. I might have them custom make me a cable, I just can't decide between silver or copper. Best part? Half the price of a comparable SC. I hate how badly I've always wanted one. The JPS connectors are beautiful, but I could buy a Diana for the same price...


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## jhai (Aug 8, 2018)

Zoomaz said:


> I too have had the Lazuli Reference cable for the Phi but as good as the Ref is I now prefer the Superconductor cable for more engagement.
> It just has that way of pulling you into the music with its rich and full bodied sound and while being very detailed.
> After reading comments about the SC I was a bit worried that it was going to be too rich and lacking detail but it makes the Phi everything i hoped it would be after being unsatisfied with other Headphones and cable combinations.
> The Danacable is probably the better buy cost wise but if one has the money, the SC is so worth it ( IMO)
> ...


Interesting that you have come from the Lazuli Reference to the SC cable.
Reading ‘between the lines’, & having recently installed the ‘new pads’ (& finding a great difference to the original) believe your comment as to the ‘new pads’ may indeed be very true as what I ‘understand’ to be the characteristics of the SC cable. 
My problem, (& I presume many others) is in auditioning the SC cable. In Australia, even the main ‘handler’ of Abyss, does not carry the SC cable, & will only ‘order’ them from Abyss if I purchase them.
Now, I have at times, ‘taken the risk’ & actually purchased cables at the risk of them ‘ending up in the capable draw’, but at the AU$4294.00 cost of say the 8 foot length of the SC, it is not something that I at least, am prepared to do. (It appears that getting to audition the cables for U.S. residents is a different situation).
As said initially, I am pretty sure that with the new pads’, that the SC may be indeed ‘the way to go’, but without a chance to audition them, it’s not a sensible proposition.
All the best to my fellow Abyss owners.


----------



## spotforscott

jhai said:


> Interesting that you have come from the Lazuli Reference to the SC cable.
> Reading ‘between the lines’, & having recently installed the ‘new pads’ (& finding a great difference to the original) believe your comment as to the ‘new pads’ may indeed be very true as what I ‘understand’ to be the characteristics of the SC cable.
> My problem, (& I presume many others) is in auditioning the SC cable. In Australia, even the main ‘handler’ of Abyss, does not carry the SC cable, & will only ‘order’ them from Abyss if I purchase them.
> Now, I have at times, ‘taken the risk’ & actually purchased cables at the risk of them ‘ending up in the capable draw’, but at the AU$4294.00 cost of say the 8 foot length of the SC, it is not something that I at least, am prepared to do. (It appears that getting to audition the cables for U.S. residents is a different situation).
> ...



Interesting, I have the new pads but started using them while SC was burning in. I will have to go back and put on the old one's and have a listen, to see how much it affects the SC performance. 

Also of interest is the fact that with the new pads, I am liking the sound best with the headband tilted forward on my head (angled toward my forehead) and with my ears closer to the rear of the cups


----------



## mulder01

jhai said:


> Interesting that you have come from the Lazuli Reference to the SC cable.
> Reading ‘between the lines’, & having recently installed the ‘new pads’ (& finding a great difference to the original) believe your comment as to the ‘new pads’ may indeed be very true as what I ‘understand’ to be the characteristics of the SC cable.
> My problem, (& I presume many others) is in auditioning the SC cable. In Australia, even the main ‘handler’ of Abyss, does not carry the SC cable, & will only ‘order’ them from Abyss if I purchase them.
> Now, I have at times, ‘taken the risk’ & actually purchased cables at the risk of them ‘ending up in the capable draw’, but at the AU$4294.00 cost of say the 8 foot length of the SC, it is not something that I at least, am prepared to do. (It appears that getting to audition the cables for U.S. residents is a different situation).
> ...



Are you sure?  I have auditioned the Superconductor at Addicted to Audio in Melbourne before, but that was probably quite a while ago now - not long after it's release I suppose.


----------



## sobrietywarrior

Is there a case recommendation for the Abyss that is not the leather bag?


----------



## isquirrel

Coming back online now after my wife's serious health issues. It gives you a very different perspective of life when you are suddenly confronted with the possibility of losing someone you have made your life and family with.

Back on topic! Listening to the Phi's on a WA 33 Elite, still messing around with the high/low impedance settings, I think thy sound better on the high and was cruising the web and bam I see a new version of the Abyss Phi the CC. Can anyone comment on the SQ difference between the PHI and the Phi CC? I am sure they will be as the pads are now perforated.

I must go back and re-visit the SC cable with the WA 33 as it is very revealing and sensitive to tubes. 

I had a set of MYSpheres on loan - they reminded me in fit of the Abyss not so the sound signature. I kept fiddling with the setup in the hope of getting some Abyss like low end performance however it was in vain. The Abyss PHI still remain my fav dynamic HP. 

Note - The new Blade Runner 2049 Album is worth buying just for listening with the Abyss.


----------



## ufospls2

isquirrel said:


> Coming back online now after my wife's serious health issues. It gives you a very different perspective of life when you are suddenly confronted with the possibility of losing someone you have made your life and family with.
> 
> Back on topic! Listening to the Phi's on a WA 33 Elite, still messing around with the high/low impedance settings, I think thy sound better on the high and was cruising the web and bam I see a new version of the Abyss Phi the CC. Can anyone comment on the SQ difference between the PHI and the Phi CC? I am sure they will be as the pads are now perforated.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear about your wifes health issues, thats never fun  

Agree 100% on the Blade Runner soundtrack!


----------



## mulder01

isquirrel said:


> Can anyone comment on the SQ difference between the PHI and the Phi CC? I am sure they will be as the pads are now perforated.



You can buy the new pads on their own if you want to upgrade.  No way to change to the matt black ceramic coating of the new version though (unless you buy new).  I think maybe beloab might have sold and re-bought to get the new paint job, but everyone else has just gone with the new pads.  There have been some impressions posted in the last few pages.



sobrietywarrior said:


> Is there a case recommendation for the Abyss that is not the leather bag?



I used the soft cloth bag from my omega headphone stand the couple of times my pair has left the house... I wouldn't imagine many people would travel with them regularly.  The lite version now comes with a soft carry bag.


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## galacticsoap

Hi Everyone - I'm thinking of purchasing a headphone amplifier to add to my system. I predominantly listen to electronica (progressive, deep, & tech house; techno, and ambient). Given I'm looking at tube amps I'm conscious that there will be some obvious compromises I'll need to make as far as resolution is concerned given I'll be inserting the amplifier between BluDave and a pair of Abyss (Phi's). I'm looking for something that will give me a bit more low end weight, improve bass extension and slam, and lastly a little bit of magical harmonic distortion in the upper frequencies wouldn't go astray.

With this in mind I'm looking either Cayin's just released HA300 or Woo's WA33.

If anyone has thoughts  or observations re: my requirements, or indeed, the amplifiers in question please do share.


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## isquirrel (Aug 10, 2018)

I might do the the small thing as Beolab. I have a pair of the original Abyss boxed in perfect condition and a pair of the Phi again which I haven't used much due to family issues. I basically burned them ion and have not touched them since.

I had a pair of the MYSphere's however I didn't think they were fantastic certainly for my tastes they could not reproduce the lower end frequencies in anything like the manner of the Abyss so I think I will sell off my two pairs of Abyss and buy a new pair. I really like the CC coating and the exposed earned slots. Reminds me of a Tank track .

I am going to find the SC cables I have (just moved house) and put them in the system this weekend with the WA 33 and enjoy! I only have about 30 boxes to go through....

Anyone interested in some mint Abyss's send me a PM.


----------



## draytonklammer

isquirrel said:


> I might do the the small thing as Beolab. I have a pair of the original Abyss boxed in perfect condition and a pair of the Phi again which I haven't used much due to family issues. I basically burned them ion and have not touched them since.
> 
> I had a pair of the MYSphere's however I didn't think they were fantastic certainly for my tastes they could not reproduce the lower end frequencies in anything like the manner of the Abyss so I think I will sell off my two pairs of Abyss and buy a new pair. I really like the CC coating and the exposed earned slots. Reminds me of a Tank track .
> 
> ...



If only you were selling a spare 1/4" SC or good cable ;P

GLWS.


----------



## isquirrel

I have plenty of good cables, Cardas Clear, DHC Spore 4 Fusion with adapters etc etc. PM me if you want something specific.


----------



## ascantor

Anyone have impressions of YFS cables.
I am using a silver coated copper cable with my Phi. Reasonably priced and sounds way better than stock cable.


----------



## draytonklammer

isquirrel said:


> I have plenty of good cables, Cardas Clear, DHC Spore 4 Fusion with adapters etc etc. PM me if you want something specific.



Sent you a PM, thanks


----------



## galacticsoap

Sorry to hear about your wife @isquirrel, all the very best for a smooth recovery mate.

Has anyone had a chance to listen to the Abyss on an Eddie Current Studio? After a few days of reading, I've come to the (probably wrong) conclusion that as far as Tube amp's go the following assumptions can be made:

2A3 amplifiers i.e. EC Studio & WA33 - Linear, powerful, deep soundstage, and good low-end extension
300B amplifiers i.e. HA300 or WA234 (using 300B's)  - Euphonic, sweet, warm, musical, rhythmic
845 amplifiers i.e. Viva Egoista - Linear, palpability and texture through the midrange, improved high-frequency extension, bass grip

I'll be liaising with my local dealer to help me try and organise an audition of these 3 types of amplifier, but alas, may struggle to hear an EC Studio in Australa.

All thoughts welcome!


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## matthewhypolite (Aug 10, 2018)

isquirrel said:


> I might do the the small thing as Beolab. I have a pair of the original Abyss boxed in perfect condition and a pair of the Phi again which I haven't used much due to family issues. I basically burned them ion and have not touched them since.
> 
> I had a pair of the MYSphere's however I didn't think they were fantastic certainly for my tastes they could not reproduce the lower end frequencies in anything like the manner of the Abyss so I think I will sell off my two pairs of Abyss and buy a new pair. I really like the CC coating and the exposed earned slots. Reminds me of a Tank track .
> 
> ...



Hope your wife feels better mate.

I got the CC pads, and posted some impressions about it earlier in the thread, but TLDR, they are definitely worth the asking price. So i'd either buy the new pads, or sell your abyss/phi and get the CC. 100% Worth it.

Also, i'm interested in your impressions of the SC Cable + Phi + WA33 (hopefully you can get the CC soon to compare as that will be exactly what i have).
As you know i have the spore4 fusion, but i am looking to either grab the Prison or the SC (leaning SC atm). So please let me know your findings with that amp.
Running NOS WE tubes atm, i roll in the taks if i want a heavier more lush sound, and i roll back in a WE274B if i want more detail. (still waiting to test out the elrog).

I'm gonna run the WE Monoplate quads for a bit, ill get the KR HP later on, maybe this year if not next year.

Anyways, let me know about the SC. I wanna buy them before october as i'll be in orlando then and wanna pick them up whiles im there.

Alos, what's your thoughts on 234 EE vs WA33 EE? 

Thanks.


----------



## Xecuter

galacticsoap said:


> Sorry to hear about your wife @isquirrel, all the very best for a smooth recovery mate.
> 
> Has anyone had a chance to listen to the Abyss on an Eddie Current Studio? After a few days of reading, I've come to the (probably wrong) conclusion that as far as Tube amp's go the following assumptions can be made:
> 
> ...




Hi. I saw you messaged me on SNA but will share my thoughts less privately here 
These are my compounded thoughts, I can expand if needs be. Please remember this is my opinion, with different dacs, tube compliments these amps can be altered to alleviate some of these issues.

I haven't heard the cayin but I have heard the viva 2a3, 845, wa33 stock and elite, wa234 V1 and own an EC studio.

Viva 2a3 gets insanely hot and is very coloured and warm, viva 845 is a much better amp, I compared it head to head with my studio and the 845 is more forward and slightly warmer and sweeter in the mid range. Studio beat it for resolution and stage, I found the 845 stage slightly blown out and had that holographic effect (some love this but I don't like the effect). I did find myself really drawn in with the 845 but I don't like that the colouration it applies to the stage of everything.

Wa234v1 is not a great amp, it is marginally better than wa5 which is a good amp, but far overpriced. I heard V1 234 with 300b and 2a3, 300bs are the way to go but the amp lacks resolution, is too soft, transients are slow and lack bite. Apparently the V2 has improved upon these flaws significantly. Maybe ask torq for a wa33 vs wa234v2 comparison (he and i prefer stock wa33)

I really like wa33, I've had the pleasure of listening to it in stock form and the elite version and honestly prefer the stock form. The wa33 is dynamic, resolving, fast with slamming bass, believable staging and sparkling highs. The elite was warmer, slower and less resolving with the same tube compliment.
Only issues I have with wa33 in general is sourcing quads of nos 2a3 is damn near impossible and a total lack of driver tube options. 

I probably wouldn't recommend the studio, it is a great amp no doubt but first I must mention that you will get better customer service and better finished products from the other manufacturers mentioned. 
However you do get a lot of bang for your buck with Eddie current. 

The studio is incredibly resolving, staging is perfect, it is dynamic, has incredible bass control and texture but it is a hair lean in the mid range, I have rolled 10s of thousands of dollars of tubes and have managed to alleviate this but some will find the amp still lacking in weight. It's always a fine line because usually when you have thicker mids you tend to lose the shimmer in the upper mids.

I think stock wa33 is the better overall amplifier for this reason. It is just more balanced top to bottom. The studio may edge it out slightly in detail but you would have a hard time deciding. The elite heads back towards the original woo house sound of overly slow, warm and missing resolution.
Studio was really designed as a speaker amp, they do make a warmer version with monolith transformers and even a 300b version of the studio but I thin at this price point my choice is the wa33. However I would consider the wa234 v2 if it really is as improved as my friend suggests!

Feel free to drop by and have a listen to the studio if you are in my neck of the woods. 
Al


----------



## Thenewguy007

Xecuter said:


> I think stock wa33 is the better overall amplifier for this reason. It is just more balanced top to bottom. The studio may edge it out slightly in detail but you would have a hard time deciding. The elite heads back towards the original woo house sound of overly slow, warm and missing resolution.



Isn't the Elite upgraded with silver transformers, wires & caps?
I would think the effect would be opposite of slower & warmer sounding.


----------



## Xecuter

Thenewguy007 said:


> Isn't the Elite upgraded with silver transformers, wires & caps?
> I would think the effect would be opposite of slower & warmer sounding.



You would think so, but the stock version had superior transients response and really delineated the midrange better. The transient attack was faster and more natural on the stock.

I heard both amps side by side with a Dave as the source.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Does the Abyss Phi cc use the same connectors as the Audeze LCD 4?


----------



## ufospls2

rsbrsvp said:


> Does the Abyss Phi cc use the same connectors as the Audeze LCD 4?



No. Three pin mini XLR on the CC, vs the 4 pin of the Audeze LCD4.

In other news, I tried the CC Pads today, and they are much comfier than the originals. Didn't have time to listen to them, but, very comfy


----------



## Torq

Xecuter said:


> Maybe ask torq for a wa33 vs wa234v2 comparison (he and i prefer stock wa33)



Just to clarify this point ...

I prefer the stock WA33 over the WA33 Elite Edition.

And I prefer the WA234 V2 (w/ 300B) over both WA33 and WA33 Elite.


----------



## vortrex

My new Phi CC will be shipping today.  For those who have started with a new pair, what's the break-in like?


----------



## llamaluv

I didn't notice any changes from burn-in on my (non-CC) Phis. 

It may have something to do with the fact that I was content with how they sounded from jump, so wasn't trying to will my brain into finding positive changes along the way. 

But also, I was listening to them very regularly during that two-week period, switched the cables twice, went from stock to CC pads, and was constantly fiddling with the fit. But anyway.


----------



## FLTWS

No break-in changes from my perspective.
Pre-ordered and added the CC pads as soon as they were delivered. 
The difference in pad depth had me make a 1 notch adjustment to get it to feel just like the previous pads, basically a non-event.
Any benefits to the sound have remained consistent since I installed them.
I do think they are a bit more comfortable, the small vent holes around the outside of the ear pad give a softer overall feel when wearing.
Enjoy!


----------



## spotforscott

Just in case someone is looking barely used Lazuli Ref cable for their Abyss (_can choose connector type_)


----------



## weasel1979

So, I know its like impossible, but if you HAD to put a number on it, how much of an improvement is the Phi over the original 1266? In percent please.
Thanks alot.


----------



## FLTWS

I couldn't put a number to it because it would be arbitrary and meaningless. All I can say is I auditioned the original AB1266 in November of 2016 for over a week in home, didn't like it, didn't buy it. I auditioned the Phi in November 2017 in home for a week, loved it, bought it. It was all about the small changes in the sound of upper mids and higher frequencies that changed my thinking. Maybe the Phi was more transparent with better transient management, but to remember precisely with a full year between takes it's really impossible to say. I didn't want to listen much with the original, can't get enough of the Phi. Maybe I was just ready to hear it. But everyone hears differently, and we all like different things, a quick run around this website will confirm that.


----------



## jlbrach

18%


----------



## vortrex

llamaluv said:


> I didn't notice any changes from burn-in on my (non-CC) Phis.
> 
> It may have something to do with the fact that I was content with how they sounded from jump, so wasn't trying to will my brain into finding positive changes along the way.
> 
> But also, I was listening to them very regularly during that two-week period, switched the cables twice, went from stock to CC pads, and was constantly fiddling with the fit. But anyway.





FLTWS said:


> No break-in changes from my perspective.
> Pre-ordered and added the CC pads as soon as they were delivered.
> The difference in pad depth had me make a 1 notch adjustment to get it to feel just like the previous pads, basically a non-event.
> Any benefits to the sound have remained consistent since I installed them.
> ...



Good news about no break-in.  Mine will be delivered on Friday.  I hope these are all they're cracked up to be.


----------



## jlbrach

they are!


----------



## sobrietywarrior

Got my CC two days ago with the new ear pads. I'm having a harder time getting the fit right vs the old pads. I feel more pressure at the top of the ear pads than the bottom. This is with the stitching at 1 oclock position. Didn't have this problem with the old pads. Also the headband seems to apply more pressure on my head. I felt fatigue after about an hour. Does the headband need break in time?


----------



## rsbrsvp

I would like to build a cable for my Abyss Phi.  Does anyone know the “cup pinout”?


----------



## Thenewguy007

sobrietywarrior said:


> Got my CC two days ago with the new ear pads. I'm having a harder time getting the fit right vs the old pads. I feel more pressure at the top of the ear pads than the bottom. This is with the stitching at 1 oclock position. Didn't have this problem with the old pads. Also the headband seems to apply more pressure on my head. I felt fatigue after about an hour. Does the headband need break in time?



Could be you need a larger headband?


----------



## rsbrsvp

There is a dealer on Audiogon selling a new abyss phi cc for $3,850?   Should I be suspicious?  I am...


----------



## mulder01

weasel1979 said:


> So, I know its like impossible, but if you HAD to put a number on it, how much of an improvement is the Phi over the original 1266? In percent please.
> Thanks alot.


lol why?  do you need your fix of pointless replies?


----------



## draytonklammer

rsbrsvp said:


> There is a dealer on Audiogon selling a new abyss phi cc for $3,850?   Should I be suspicious?  I am...



That feels really wrong to me personally. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

My only thought is if it's an old Abyss with the new ear pads and Phi upgrade but not truly a new CC painted production model.


----------



## FLTWS

sobrietywarrior said:


> Got my CC two days ago with the new ear pads. I'm having a harder time getting the fit right vs the old pads. I feel more pressure at the top of the ear pads than the bottom. This is with the stitching at 1 oclock position. Didn't have this problem with the old pads. Also the headband seems to apply more pressure on my head. I felt fatigue after about an hour. Does the headband need break in time?



Try moving that seam up one notch, that solved it for me, I experienced the exact same situation, a bit more pressure above the ear than below. The move equalized it all the way around, feels like the originals at this point.


----------



## weasel1979

mulder01 said:


> lol why?  do you need your fix of pointless replies?



The only pointless reply was yours. I am a 1266 owner and am wondering whether the upgrade is worth 1500 $.


----------



## Thenewguy007

weasel1979 said:


> The only pointless reply was yours. I am a 1266 owner and am wondering whether the upgrade is worth 1500 $.



Well the main point of the Phi was fixing the somewhat sibilant treble & the somewhat recessed midrange of the original.

So it addressed the issues the original had & improved upon them.


----------



## DrummerLeo

Has anybody tried WA5-LE with 1266, is it powerful enough?


----------



## jlbrach

draytonklammer said:


> That feels really wrong to me personally. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
> 
> My only thought is if it's an old Abyss with the new ear pads and Phi upgrade but not truly a new CC painted production model.



a new paint job isnt worth 700 dollars to me,if it is legit then it is a fine deal


----------



## phase0

DrummerLeo said:


> Has anybody tried WA5-LE with 1266, is it powerful enough?



I have a full WA5 and for the HP outs no different than the LE. More than enough juice to drive and also IMO a nice synergy with the 1266.


----------



## draytonklammer

jlbrach said:


> a new paint job isnt worth 700 dollars to me,if it is legit then it is a fine deal



That's not the point. 
My point is that it's not a true Abyss Phi CC, which is the question being answered. 

I could care less about the paint. I like the original finish so I have zero plans on switching paint.


----------



## jlbrach

my point is simply that the Phi with the new pads is the current model,the paint is not worth a whole lot to me


----------



## mulder01

weasel1979 said:


> The only pointless reply was yours. I am a 1266 owner and am wondering whether the upgrade is worth 1500 $.


Not for me personally, but worth that and more to others.  
Varies wildly depending on who you ask was my point.


----------



## draytonklammer

If he wasn't looking for the paint, a bit under 4k isn't too bad at all.

I don't care about the paint either, to reiterate. I like the darker style paint on the original Abyss. Just trying to cover all bases .


----------



## Zoomaz

DrummerLeo said:


> Has anybody tried WA5-LE with 1266, is it powerful enough?


I have the V2 WA5-LE and you would never need to want more power. Its an awesome amp to drive the 1266.
The volume knob is only around 9.00 when set to high levell and around 12.00 on low level.


----------



## vortrex

My new Abyss Phi CC showed up an hour ago.  It's difficult to comprehend how good these are.  Stunning.  Perfect in every way.  In another dimension compared to others I've owned or demoed.  I'm finally DONE!


----------



## draytonklammer

vortrex said:


> My new Abyss Phi CC showed up an hour ago.  It's difficult to comprehend how good these are.  Stunning.  Perfect in every way.  In another dimension compared to others I've owned or demoed.  I'm finally DONE!



I always said I was done. 
The Abyss has been my end game for two years now. Longer than I've ever gone without a new headphone. 

Enjoy it.


----------



## jlbrach

vortrex said:


> My new Abyss Phi CC showed up an hour ago.  It's difficult to comprehend how good these are.  Stunning.  Perfect in every way.  In another dimension compared to others I've owned or demoed.  I'm finally DONE!



nobody here is ever done until the next new thing comes along....it is like the song says....you can check in in but you can never check out!


----------



## llamaluv

I have to say, "end game" has never been a conscious objective of mine, but just the fact that the thought crossed my mind when I got the Phi is saying a lot, I think. First time that'd ever happened, lol.


----------



## FLTWS

llamaluv said:


> I have to say, "end game" has never been a conscious objective of mine, but just the fact that the thought crossed my mind when I got the Phi is saying a lot, I think. First time that'd ever happened, lol.



Me either, but I do wonder, can the Phi design be further refined meaningfully, or will it take a re-thinking, re-engineering effort, and a different design and approach to better it? 
Or will an entirely new product (like Diana's development - had some part in the changes to the diaphragm if I remember correctly) provide some new trickle down tech that can be incorporated in the next iteration of the 1266 line.
Meaningful is the key word here.


----------



## Thenewguy007

So any owners with the Phi & new pads who also owned the original V1 versions, would you ever consider going back or would just be happy being stuck with just the V1?

Is the gulf so big, you wouldn't even consider it going back?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Thenewguy007 said:


> So any owners with the Phi & new pads who also owned the original V1 versions, would you ever consider going back or would just be happy being stuck with just the V1?
> 
> Is the gulf so big, you wouldn't even consider it going back?



The Phi are totally worth it for me with the new CC pads!


----------



## rsbrsvp

Can someone post a frequency response graph for the phi?


----------



## llamaluv

Velcro strip cable mod. Should only be attempted by those with advanced arts-and-crafts skills.


----------



## vortrex

Funny, I thought about doing the same thing.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Thenewguy007 said:


> So any owners with the Phi & new pads who also owned the original V1 versions, would you ever consider going back or would just be happy being stuck with just the V1?
> 
> Is the gulf so big, you wouldn't even consider it going back?



I would never consider going back. Please dont speak of such things again


----------



## matthewhypolite

*Mini Abyss Phi CC review:*

The Phi CC Takes everything about the Phi and refines it and polished it. The music sounds a bit more natural and there's a bit more detail retrieval and resolution, the cans, are just….better. And that coming from the Phi is very difficult to accomplish.

They seem to bring more refinement to an already great can. The new earpads seem to make the music cleaner and as a result I'm noticing that bit more of detail retrieval and resolution. There is definitely more space, and the bass is a bit more detailed and refined. Basically makes everything better lol. O, and they are more comfortable.

If you've already dished out $4500+ on the Phi, the extra for CC pads are a new brainer imo. Overall i think they offer more improvement to the sound than a cable upgrade, which can cost anywhere from 3-7 times the cost of the new pads. TLDR go get the pads, and if you're in the market for a new Abyss, might as well go straight CC.

I'm glad these upgrade options were made available to owners, from the headbands, original earpad replacements, phi upgrade, cable upgrades and now earpad upgrades.

Always a path available to me to upgrade as they iterate on the headphones and never felt like my investment was gutted by a future headphone release 6 months later 

Now that I've gotten to know the Abyss Phi CC for a while, i can now say this:

*The Abyss Phi CC destroys the Utopia.*

The thing so good, I had to cross the 10 barrier when i placed the Phi CC on my review chart.





I don’t even know what's happening, if I should adjust all my ratings taking into account the performance of the CC being the pinnacle of what I've heard so far, all I know is, these things sound GOOD!, and at this point I'm not quite sure how to represent that with numbers on a chart. I'll have to have think about it, but I think where my thoughts are on the chart says it all.

Truly amazing headphone.


----------



## x RELIC x

matthewhypolite said:


> the extra for CC pads are a *NEW* brainer imo.



Please tell me that was a clever pun, and not just a typo.


----------



## FLTWS

matthewhypolite said:


> *Mini Abyss Phi CC review:*
> 
> The Phi CC Takes everything about the Phi and refines it and polished it. The music sounds a bit more natural and there's a bit more detail retrieval and resolution, the cans, are just….better. And that coming from the Phi is very difficult to accomplish.
> 
> ...



Nice write-up, I'm in agreement. Of the many earphones I've auditioned over the past 2 1/2 years the Phi is the only one that can suggest the presence of pressure waves in the deep bass area. Several others go deep and hit just as hard but without that sense of air being moved (as can be the case with speakers and is, of course, with "live" sound as standard). My key to enjoying the sound of the 1266 model was coming to grips with getting the fit right, after that sound seemed to takes care of itself. The generously sized ear pad chamber and weight distribution of the head pad and light but stable coupling around the ear works for me. After that it's a question of interaction with the rest of the equipment chains sound pallets.


----------



## matthewhypolite

x RELIC x said:


> Please tell me that was a clever pun, and not just a typo.



We'll go with clever pun, not gonna change a thing. 


FLTWS said:


> Nice write-up, I'm in agreement. Of the many earphones I've auditioned over the past 2 1/2 years the Phi is the only one that can suggest the presence of pressure waves in the deep bass area. Several others go deep and hit just as hard but without that sense of air being moved (as can be the case with speakers and is, of course, with "live" sound as standard). My key to enjoying the sound of the 1266 model was coming to grips with getting the fit right, after that sound seemed to takes care of itself. The generously sized ear pad chamber and weight distribution of the head pad and light but stable coupling around the ear works for me. After that it's a question of interaction with the rest of the equipment chains sound pallets.



The last point you've made is very important, with the right gear, man o man. Abyss phi cc paired with those nos tubes. Amazing. And what you've describe re bass etc, I can only call natural sounding. When I put the Utopia back on, they jsut sound.... Wrong.


----------



## ufospls2

matthewhypolite said:


> We'll go with clever pun, not gonna change a thing.
> 
> 
> The last point you've made is very important, with the right gear, man o man. Abyss phi cc paired with those nos tubes. Amazing. And what you've describe re bass etc, I can only call natural sounding. When I put the Utopia back on, they jsut sound.... Wrong.



Did you sell your Phi and buy the Phi CC, or is this just the Phi with CC pads?


----------



## matthewhypolite

ufospls2 said:


> Did you sell your Phi and buy the Phi CC, or is this just the Phi with CC pads?


Phi cc pads, which is the same thing without paint  job


----------



## Mikey99

sobrietywarrior said:


> Is there a case recommendation for the Abyss that is not the leather bag?


I use an old Crumpler Camera bag. Works perfectly! I think many models of Camera bag would work well.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Hi All,

So some folks are suggesting i get a Staxx rig SR009/BHSE, how do Abyss owners feel about the Staxx headphone, and how do they compare to the Phi?


----------



## Thenewguy007

I always heard the 009 compared similarly to the Utopia.


----------



## Xecuter

matthewhypolite said:


> Hi All,
> 
> So some folks are suggesting i get a Staxx rig SR009/BHSE, how do Abyss owners feel about the Staxx headphone, and how do they compare to the Phi?



I really wouldn't bother with 009, your current system with hd800sdr or Utopia would blow 009 + bhse away.

Bhse is not a great amp imo, isquirrel had the best 009 system I've heard with the MSB select ii and MSB stat amp but I could never point anyone in that direction and I still think the 009 is the bottleneck in that system. 

What have you got as far as speakers go Matt?
The only thing beyond abyss/wa33 that would really be a significant step up, is a good speaker system in a well treated room.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Xecuter said:


> I really wouldn't bother with 009, your current system with hd800sdr or Utopia would blow 009 + bhse away.
> 
> Bhse is not a great amp imo, isquirrel had the best 009 system I've heard with the MSB select ii and MSB stat amp but I could never point anyone in that direction and I still think the 009 is the bottleneck in that system.
> 
> ...



I have paradigm speakers with anthem dac and emotiva amp. They sounds really good but my room is not treated, so I enjoy the abyss alot more.

My brother however has the signature series paradigm in a treated room and they sound amazing. But I still appriciate the intimacy and resolution of the WA33 /abyss setup. Also appriciate that I can rock out at 11pm without waking up the wife, let alone the neighbours


----------



## Xecuter

matthewhypolite said:


> I have paradigm speakers with anthem dac and emotiva amp. They sounds really good but my room is not treated, so I enjoy the abyss alot more.
> 
> My brother however has the signature series paradigm in a treated room and they sound amazing. But I still appriciate the intimacy and resolution of the WA33 /abyss setup. Also appriciate that I can rock out at 11pm without waking up the wife, let alone the neighbours



I'm with you on the benefits of headphones, even though I am moving into speakers for my main critical listening I'll always keep a competent headphone system for late nights.

The 009 offers fantastic clarity and macro detail but doesn't dig as deep into plankton as good dynamic cans.

I think you have room for considerable improvement on your speaker system and that is the only way to really go beyond what you currently have imo.

If you really need to scratch the stat itch, get the carbon over a bhse and also consider the 007 mki over the 009. It's timbre is far more correct than 009 but still would be inferior to your current system imo.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Personally was not interested in the staxx due to reading time and time again its very bass light compared to the abyss. But thought I'd ask again anyways. 

What speakers are you looking at?


----------



## Xecuter

JBL 4367 will be my first serious speaker. Should have them in very soon


----------



## MacedonianHero

matthewhypolite said:


> Hi All,
> 
> So some folks are suggesting i get a Staxx rig SR009/BHSE, how do Abyss owners feel about the Staxx headphone, and how do they compare to the Phi?



Lol, I went the other direction...from my SR009 rig to the Phi.


----------



## matthewhypolite

MacedonianHero said:


> Lol, I went the other direction...from my SR009 rig to the Phi.



Ouu, so what staxx rig you were on, what abyss rig you on now, and how do you describe the change


----------



## koven (Aug 26, 2018)

As a 009 BHSE user, I'm highly curious about the Phi.. tried them at CanJam but show conditions quite inadequate, it was hard for me to judge their true colors. They were kind of uncomfortable though!


----------



## matthewhypolite

koven said:


> As a 009 BHSE user, I'm highly curious about the Phi.. tried them at CanJam but show conditions quite inadequate, it was hard for me to judge their true colors. They were kind of uncomfortable though!



Yea, comfort is one of the issues with the abyss, but there are some simple things you can do to dramatically improve comfort, if you ever get your hands on a pair we can steer you in the right direction with fit.

Speaking of which, fit is very important with abyss, and dialing the headphones into your head shape and fit is very impactful on the resultant sound quality. It would be very difficult to audition the abyss in show conditions. It's a headphone you'll have to spend a week or 2 with to really see what they can do.


----------



## vortrex

I can only handle about 1.5 hrs then the crown of my head is in too much pain.  Still keeping them though because the sound is down right incredible.  Maybe either my skull or the suspension band will break in some.


----------



## Rhamnetin

koven said:


> As a 009 BHSE user, I'm highly curious about the Phi.. tried them at CanJam but show conditions quite inadequate, it was hard for me to judge their true colors. They were kind of uncomfortable though!



It's not hard to audition an Abyss at least. The Cable Company has one, you can probably borrow one by paying 5% of its cost which gets added to your store credit there (can be used on any purchase there). Other stores carry them, check any local Hi-Fi store near you.

I was going to borrow one but then I sold my Pure BiPolar amp, since my SR-009 system was so far ahead of every non-electrostat I heard, I figured it just wouldn't come close (I also listened to the AB-1266 in pretty good listening conditions and was overall unimpressed, but its flaws would've been easy to fix so I believe the Phi's fix them).


----------



## matthewhypolite

vortrex said:


> I can only handle about 1.5 hrs then the crown of my head is in too much pain.  Still keeping them though because the sound is down right incredible.  Maybe either my skull or the suspension band will break in some.



That sounds like you already have an abyss?


----------



## weasel1979

I come from the SR009 and SR007 (Carbon Combo) and to me, they sound thinner in comparison with the Abyss and other planars. They sound softer, less dynamic and less aggressive. The SR007 sounds very beautiful when amped right. Extremely beautiful. The Abyss sounds like you are in the middle of the rehearsal room. You can hear / see everything. More than with other cans. The seperation is much better, which lets you hear more. You can make out all the harmonies, bass lines, percussion and so on easily.  It is quite amazing. Also you have got "real" base. Base guitars finally get the weight they really have. This is something I only hear with the Abyss 1266, and with nothing else. Electrostats just cant deliver like that in the base field. Of yourse, most Stax fans think Stax has got the best bass in the world, which is not true.  I love Electrostates for their beautiful sound, especially in the treble. But they cant compete with an Abyss 1266, which beams you right into the rehearsal room and shows you, what the song is made of.


----------



## Rhamnetin (Aug 26, 2018)

weasel1979 said:


> I come from the SR009 and SR007 (Carbon Combo) and to me, they sound thinner in comparison with the Abyss and other planars. They sound softer, less dynamic and less aggressive. The SR007 sounds very beautiful when amped right. Extremely beautiful. The Abyss sounds like you are in the middle of the rehearsal room. You can hear / see everything. More than with other cans. The seperation is much better, which lets you hear more. You can make out all the harmonies, bass lines, percussion and so on easily.  It is quite amazing. Also you have got "real" base. Base guitars finally get the weight they really have. This is something I only hear with the Abyss 1266, and with nothing else. Electrostats just cant deliver like that in the base field. Of yourse, most Stax fans think Stax has got the best bass in the world, which is not true.  I love Electrostates for their beautiful sound, especially in the treble. But they cant compete with an Abyss 1266, which beams you right into the rehearsal room and shows you, what the song is made of.



Just remember that those Stax headphones can change more depending on DAC and interconnects than probably any other headphone. On certain systems (even high end ones, I think I feel this way with most R2R DACs) I would partially agree with you, but on others like mine that is just not at all the case. The Abyss lineup is a good comparison for the SR-009 though since they have similar qualities unlike the SR-007.

As far as beaming you right into the rehearsal room, I believe it is impossible for a planar to match the SR-009 here, when both are driven to their full potential. The transparency, separation, impact and full-bodied sound of my SR-009 system are just exponentially beyond any non-electrostatic system I have heard including the AB-1266 driven by a WA-234. AB-1266 bass was one-note (and lacks sub-bass extension) in comparison to the magnificently transparent three dimensional bass of the SR-009, even the LCD-4 couldn't compete in bass beyond 'thickness' and extension where the LCD-4 wins (but the thickness may be at the cost of tactility, I'd prefer the SR-009's tactility if so). But then again subjective factors can come into play here too.


----------



## weasel1979 (Aug 26, 2018)

Here we go again, I have been reading that Stax has great bass from some Stax fans and amp builders for a long time. Now my jaw is way on the floor because I tried the Abyss. I can only tell everyone to try it, try both.

Their are other planars with better bass than any electrostat.


----------



## Xecuter

@Rhamnetin "one note bass from an abyss... No extension into sub bass?"

I think you probably lost most of us here..

You're welcome to your opinion mate, but the sr009 bass and actual resolution is rather garbage. The Stax mafia are often blinded by their faith in KG and the limitations of the electrostat drivers. 
The only stat I would ever bother with is the new he1.


----------



## Rhamnetin (Aug 26, 2018)

Xecuter said:


> @Rhamnetin "one note bass from an abyss... No extension into sub bass?"
> 
> I think you probably lost most of us here..
> 
> ...



That AB-1266 bass rolloff.
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/JPSLabsAbyssAB1266.pdf

Compared to SR-009.
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR009.pdf

Enough said. And who is the blinded one? Stax mafia is one of very few niche groups in the headphone world that actually cares about objectivity. And are you trying to imply that electrostatic drivers are more limited than planar magnetic? lol...

But I knew before saying it that that specific comment would lose most of you here, just like it'd lose most Audeze fans too. I couldn't believe what I was hearing either with my SR-009 system, the bass clearly outclassing all planars due to its transparency, texture, and detail being many leagues above. Tyll's "Comparing World Class Headphones" review actually speaks to this, particularly its texture and realism, he just wanted more sub-bass quantity which I'd like as well.

The SR-009 resolves more details in the bass region than any headphone I've owned or listened to by far, so if it was garbage here then the one-note AB-1266 is worse than that. Far outresolves the LCD-4 here too. But again, this is super system dependent. I wouldn't say this was the case with the Denafrips Venus DAC nor the Holo Audio Spring DAC Level 3 (in which case I'd be saying the same things as you guys), but with the Hugo 2 it's night and day.

As weasel1979 said, try both. Though it's hard to try Stax in any meaningful conditions.

Also based on my 15 minutes with the HE-1, it didn't sound quite as accurate to me as the SR-009, but given the short listening time that should be taken with an ocean of salt. I'm not convinced that having MOSFET amplifiers in the cups is a good idea though.


----------



## ufospls2 (Aug 26, 2018)

That Tyll measurement is wrong. Flat out wrong.







That is a bit better, but the Abyss are hard to measure due to their form factor and people struggling with their fit on the measuring device. Lets not get into the fact that Tylls review sample had something wrong with it as well. SR-009 is a good headphone, a bit meh in some areas, pretty awesome in others. Would never own one, regardless of the amp used. Can we please not turn this haven of safety into a KG bootlicking, unquestioning, worship fest? There is a whole forum dedicated to that...

Also, one note bass and lack of extension into the sub frequencies from the Abyss? No. The end. My Hifiman Sundara have one note bass.


----------



## matthewhypolite (Aug 26, 2018)

Quite frankly, after owning the abyss for several years, i really don't see how headphone measurements of them can accurately reflect bass results of a properly fitted abyss. The headphones can have so many different sounds depending on the fit, if you want more bass you can dial that in, less you can do that. So i wouldn't put too much stock in Abyss measurements.

Also, tyll's measurements were for the original abyss, and having owned all versions of the abyss i can say that their have been substantial improvements from OG, to Phi, to CC.
There were certain things i did not like about the original abyss, in so much that i reached for my Utopia from time to time depending on the genre of music i feel for and my mode.

With the phi i reached for them less, but still did on occasion. With the CC pads, the only ear time my utopia is getting these days, is on my 2nd rig for gaming.


----------



## Rhamnetin (Aug 26, 2018)

ufospls2 said:


> That Tyll measurement is wrong. Flat out wrong.
> 
> That is a bit better, but the Abyss are hard to measure due to their form factor and people struggling with their fit on the measuring device. Lets not get into the fact that Tylls review sample had something wrong with it as well. SR-009 is a good headphone, a bit meh in some areas, pretty awesome in others. Would never own one, regardless of the amp used. Can we please not turn this haven of safety into a KG bootlicking, unquestioning, worship fest? There is a whole forum dedicated to that...
> 
> Also, one note bass and lack of extension into the sub frequencies from the Abyss? No. The end. My Hifiman Sundara have one note bass.



It seems like only you and Xecuter are bootlicking and unquestioning in this thread right now. Also since when did Kevin Gilmore design the SR-009? You're trying to claim the Abyss is some kind of uniquely perfect headphone. It's good that you found something you are so satisfied in, likewise it is good that I found something similar in the SR-009.

The measurements you posted are from a much lower quality system than Tyll's, but now that you mention it I do recall there being something wrong with his model. It's a shame someone with his equipment and knowledge level will never review the Phi/Phi CC and all these other new models coming out.



matthewhypolite said:


> Quite frankly, after owning the abyss for several years, i really don't see how headphone measurements of them can accurately reflect bass results of a properly fitted abyss. The headphones can have so many different sounds depending on the fit, if you want more bass you can dial that in, less you can do that. So i wouldn't put too much stock in Abyss measurements.
> 
> Also, tyll's measurements were for the original abyss, and having owned all versions of the abyss i can say that their have been substantial improvements from OG, to Phi, to CC.
> There were certain things i did not like about the original abyss, in so much that i reached for my Utopia from time to time depending on the genre of music i feel for and my mode.
> ...



I don't doubt it. The flaws I heard with the AB-1266 seemed like they would have been easy to remedy with pads and slight tweaks.


----------



## ufospls2 (Aug 26, 2018)

Rhamnetin said:


> _*It seems like only you and Xecuter are bootlicking and unquestioning in this thread right now. *_You're trying to claim the Abyss is some _*kind of uniquely perfect headphone.*_ It's good that you found something you are so satisfied in, likewise it is good that I found something similar in the SR-009.
> 
> The measurements you posted are from a much lower quality system than Tyll's, but now that you mention it I do recall there being something wrong with his model. It's a shame someone with his equipment and knowledge level will never review the Phi/Phi CC and all these other new models coming out.
> 
> ...



Where did I do that? Enlighten me. I posted a measurement and said that their bass is not one note and lacks extension. That is all. No headphone is perfect.

"_You owe it to yourself to try an SR-007 and SR-009/SR-009S with a *KG*SSHV Carbon/Grounded Grid or better, a Chord Hugo 2 or Hugo TT 2 or DAVE, and excellent analog interconnects.
Sold all of my non-electrostatic headphone gear because Stax is just too good..."
_
The only amp better being a KG designed T2 I'm guessing? All done here folks.

Happy listening regardless of your system to all


----------



## draytonklammer

Rhamnetin said:


> It seems like only you and Xecuter are bootlicking and unquestioning in this thread right now. Also since when did Kevin Gilmore design the SR-009? You're trying to claim the Abyss is some kind of uniquely perfect headphone. It's good that you found something you are so satisfied in, likewise it is good that I found something similar in the SR-009.
> 
> The measurements you posted are from a much lower quality system than Tyll's, but now that you mention it I do recall there being something wrong with his model. It's a shame someone with his equipment and knowledge level will never review the Phi/Phi CC and all these other new models coming out.
> 
> ...





ufospls2 said:


> Where did I do that? Enlighten me. I posted a measurement and said that their bass is not one note and lacks extension. That is all. No headphone is perfect.
> 
> "_You owe it to yourself to try an SR-007 and SR-009/SR-009S with a *KG*SSHV Carbon/Grounded Grid or better, a Chord Hugo 2 or Hugo TT 2 or DAVE, and excellent analog interconnects.
> Sold all of my non-electrostatic headphone gear because Stax is just too good..."
> ...



Absolutely nowhere, sounds more like he needs a bandage for an open wound.
The only boot licking I think I saw was towards his admiration for Tyll.
Sorry to see you get attacked.

I have personally tried the 007 (mk 1 and mk 2), 009 and 009S and I don't feel that they approached too much on the Abyss Phi CC.
Don't get me wrong, they're great headphones in their own manners and the electrostatic sound is great, but I greatly prefer my Abyss.

Heck, I would honestly take my Abyss setup with the DAVE over an HE-1. (outside of taking the HE-1 just to sell it)


----------



## MaxPowerZ

ufospls2 said:


> That Tyll measurement is wrong. Flat out wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The "bass roll-off" starts at 26Hz in Tyll's measurement, whether or not the fit was perfect that's really nothing to worry about and the measurement you've put up cuts off at 20Hz. Tyll's measurement is of a pre-phi abyss, many years ago and the other one is... I don't even know. We have so many apples and oranges here, you guys really ought to make IRL Fruit Ninja. GL HF


----------



## koven (Aug 26, 2018)

draytonklammer said:


> Heck, I would honestly take my Abyss setup with the DAVE over an HE-1. (outside of taking the HE-1 just to sell it)



Do you find Dave powerful enough for Abyss? I was under the impression that its amp section is kind of weak.. good for efficient cans like Utopia but not so much for LCD4/Abyss?

Looks like 009 is quite a love or hate sound. Personally I like it since I prefer treble over bass. I guess it depends a lot on your genre preferences.


----------



## draytonklammer

koven said:


> Do you find Dave powerful enough for Abyss? I was under the impression that its amp section is kind of weak.. good for efficient cans like Utopia but not so much for LCD4/Abyss?
> 
> Looks like 009 is quite a love or hate sound. Personally I like it since I prefer treble over bass. I guess it depends a lot on your genre preferences.



Always remember, this is IMO.

I think the Dave's amplifier is excellent, not to mention it being more direct and transparent in the topography of the Dave.
I am selling my Moon Neo 430HA(D) (which I absolutely love) because the Dave does a better job in my opinion.

LCD-4/Abyss I had no issues with running through the Dave. No issues at all. The LCD-4 puts a bit of strain on it maybe, but I also don't listen at ear shattering levels. Don't feel like I am really missing out either.


----------



## jlbrach

i own the susvara and abyss now and have come around to using an external amp with both now....yes it is more transparent with the dave alone but in the case of the susvara there is absolutely no choice and in the case of the abyss Phi I find the plusses of the external amp outweigh the minuses but i can easily see people thinking the opposite and probably will go back and forth myself


----------



## jlbrach

interestingly i found the lcd-4 easier to drive than the Phi.....at least to my ears


----------



## Rhamnetin

draytonklammer said:


> Absolutely nowhere, sounds more like he needs a bandage for an open wound.
> The only boot licking I think I saw was towards his admiration for Tyll.
> Sorry to see you get attacked.
> 
> ...



Pointing out that Tyll had a superior measuring rig and alluding to him having more experience in the industry than most of us is boot licking? I think the more appropriate thing would be to point out your apparent refusal of those facts, and not take posts from such a delusional person seriously.

Talking about headphones shouldn't wound anyone. I am glad to see some strong opinions for a change, it suggests that person strongly believes in quality (to whatever they think quality is at least), opposed to the more common "everything is good, just different" attitude. Stax and the Abyss seem to generate a more strong fanbase than other flagship headphones right now. The Audeze and Sennheiser loyalty isn't as strong as it once was. 



jlbrach said:


> interestingly i found the lcd-4 easier to drive than the Phi.....at least to my ears



The LCD-4 has much higher sensitivity so that's why. It's really not that hard to drive. This reminds me, I'll be getting a Chord Hugo TT 2 soon which can drive the Abyss, so I will indeed be getting an Abyss Phi CC in my home for some A/B comparisons to my Stax setup. I'll also try a Susvara and HE1000se for the hell of it, though I suspect I won't find either of these to be on the same level as even the Abyss.


----------



## jlbrach

susvara with the proper power is outstanding.......phi and susvara are the 2 best HP's I have heard and other than the Stax i have heard them all...I did hear the Stax at a show for a moment but couldnt pass judgment


----------



## matthewhypolite

jlbrach said:


> susvara with the proper power is outstanding.......phi and susvara are the 2 best HP's I have heard and other than the Stax i have heard them all...I did hear the Stax at a show for a moment but couldnt pass judgment



How'd u compare the susvara to the cc?


----------



## jlbrach

i have the Phi not CC....the Phi is a bigger listen...slightly larger soundstage and more prominent bass...the susvara is perhaps a bit more accurate....they are both fantastic


----------



## MacedonianHero

matthewhypolite said:


> Ouu, so what staxx rig you were on, what abyss rig you on now, and how do you describe the change



I had both the SR-009 and SR-007Mk1 and I went through the SRM727II, KGSS, KGSSHV, LL and LL2. Also heard them on a BHSE and a friend's T-2. The Abyss Phi is just more speaker-like with wider sound staging, incredible bass and the resolution is top notch on the Phi with the CC pads. Listening to my setup now (DAVE --> GS-X Mk2 --> Abyss Phi with CC pads) and I'm smiling from ear-to-ear.


----------



## matthewhypolite

MacedonianHero said:


> I had both the SR-009 and SR-007Mk1 and I went through the SRM727II, KGSS, KGSSHV, LL and LL2. Also heard them on a BHSE and a friend's T-2. The Abyss Phi is just more speaker-like with wider sound staging, incredible bass and the resolution is top notch on the Phi with the CC pads. Listening to my setup now (DAVE --> GS-X Mk2 --> Abyss Phi with CC pads) and I'm smiling from ear-to-ear.



Thanks man. I won't venture down the Stax route. I'll instesd put my pennies behind my existing rig. And if I get the chance to demo the staxx of course I will.


----------



## MacedonianHero

matthewhypolite said:


> Thanks man. I won't venture down the Stax route. I'll instesd put my pennies behind my existing rig. And if I get the chance to demo the staxx of course I will.



I strongly suggest you give a Stax rig a good listen...they are fantastic when setup right. That said, I'm quite happy with my setup now.


----------



## matthewhypolite

MacedonianHero said:


> I strongly suggest you give a Stax rig a good listen...they are fantastic when setup right. That said, I'm quite happy with my setup now.



O for sure, if I have the opportunity. What I'm not doing is shelling out for a good staxx rig blind. Prefer to hear it first.


----------



## weasel1979

matthewhypolite said:


> .



Abyss Sound Quality: 9.6
Abyss Phi Sound Quality: 9.9 
Abyss Phi CC Sound Quality: 10.4

So, it looks to me that you are saying that the new pads (cc) are a greater sound improvement than the new Phi driver was. Is that correct?


----------



## astrostar59

matthewhypolite said:


> O for sure, if I have the opportunity. What I'm not doing is shelling out for a good staxx rig blind. Prefer to hear it first.



Agree, but the Stax sound may not be for everyone...


----------



## matthewhypolite (Aug 27, 2018)

weasel1979 said:


> Abyss Sound Quality: 9.6
> Abyss Phi Sound Quality: 9.9
> Abyss Phi CC Sound Quality: 10.4
> 
> So, it looks to me that you are saying that the new pads (cc) are a greater sound improvement than the new Phi driver was. Is that correct?



I know that's how the numbers turned out (keeping in mind that my CC numbers are still early, have not put it through my full suit of tests yet), but i dont think your statement is accurate. I can see how it looks that way just by looking at the numbers. But what your statement would imply is that if you take the CC pads and put it on the OG Abyss that you'll get a bigger jump in SQ than going to the Phi drivers. And i'm guessing you looked at the Phi upgrade price of $1500 and the earpad price of $350 and determined that the earpads are a cheaper upgrade for more sq increase. But from what i've heard, i dont think putting the earpads on the original abyss would have the same effect. That's something someone will have to test. It may very well make the original abyss sound worse by highlighting the flaws even more, the flaws that the phi drivers fixed to my ears. What the pads did ontop of the Phi is just added "more phi", refined and polished what was already there, bringing the cans up to just an unbelievably good level. And if i apply the same change to the original abyss, i.e. "more OG" , i think i'd prefer the base Phi to that.

It's something worth exploring though, if anyone still has an original on hand to slap on the new pads and compare to phi padded, that would be great.
Maybe @Joe Skubinski can shed some thoughts on this as well?





astrostar59 said:


> Agree, but the Stax sound may not be for everyone...



Yea, and from what i've been reading it may not be for me, but i wont just dismiss it either, if i get the chance to audition any headphone i'll take it .


----------



## Joe Skubinski

I think you summed it up quite well


----------



## vortrex

Just listened to Primus - Pork Soda.  What an incredible display of bass.  One of the best listening sessions I've ever had on anything.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Aug 29, 2018)

Just received my Abyss phi cc several hours ago.  I’ve been burning them in for about four hours.

Initial impressions:

1.  Excellent soundstage- wide and somewhat speaker like; not as deep as my LCD-4- but much more speaker-like.
2.  Full and smooth sounding contrary to many reports I read that they are a bit sharp.  They sound NOTHING like a HD800 except the soundstage contrary to all I have read.
3.  Surprisingly comfortable.
4.  Contrary to the reports I have read- these are NOWHERE as fast as a STAX.   I have no idea where these reports came from.
5.  The most common comment on these is how hard hitting they are.  They certainly seem punchy- but not necessarily more than other reference headphones.
6.  Definitely sound at this early stage as a candidate for best non-electrostatic headphone I have ever heard.  Definitely do not have the speed, detail, and clarity of SR-007 or SR-009; not even close.  But reference level in these areas for a planner with the obvious advantages over STAX of more depth, weight, and bass.  More three dimensional than STAX also.
7.  Excellent frequency balance.  No equalizing needed...

How many hours do these need to break in to full potential????


----------



## acantor

What amp are you using for the Phi?  I know this has been talked about repeatedly on this thread, but I would be interested in hearing what amplification folks are using and recommendations.  I am currently using the Rogue headphone amp.  My guess is there is better out there.
Thanks!


----------



## Thenewguy007

rsbrsvp said:


> Just received my Abyss phi cc several hours ago.  I’ve been burning them in for about four hours.
> 
> Initial impressions:
> 
> ...



How do you feel the midrange/vocals on the Abyss are compared to those headphones? Do they feel a little recessed?


----------



## vortrex

1.  I've been running my new Phi CC for 15 days now, 24x7, and yesterday they seemed to change and offer more depth.  However, I put a new amp in at the exact same time so it could have been the amp/tubes burning in also.
5.  I wonder if this is an amp issue on your side?  These sound so big and dynamic and hit so hard in my rig that they do not even sound like headphones.

I'm using an Allnic HPA-3000 GT amp.  It is a perfect match.  The volume control lies between 11 and 12 o'clock for my listening.  3 watts of power on the 50 ohm tap.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Aug 29, 2018)

Thenewguy007 said:


> How do you feel the midrange/vocals on the Abyss are compared to those headphones? Do they feel a little recessed?



Midrange is fine.  Does not sound recessed by much to my ears- just not as full as the LCD.  I like it better...- more real to life.

I believe I spoke to quickly in my last post.  I just burnt in another two hours- and the improvement is substantial.  Much faster response, better definition.  Still not STAX speed but improving quickly.  Much punchier as well.

I think I need to give them 100 hours before commenting again.  My initial impressions were just that- initial....  and not at all final.

By the way I have a augio-gd HE-9 amplifier...


----------



## vortrex

That's interesting.  I noticed no change at all from 0 hours right up until yesterday.


----------



## jlbrach

the violectric 281 is quite good


----------



## Mikey99 (Aug 29, 2018)

acantor said:


> What amp are you using for the Phi?  I know this has been talked about repeatedly on this thread, but I would be interested in hearing what amplification folks are using and recommendations.  I am currently using the Rogue headphone amp.  My guess is there is better out there.
> Thanks!



I auditioned the Questyle Golden Reference Stack and the Eleven XI Audio Formula S with Powerman. Both were a big step up from my Sennheiser HDVD800.  The Eleven XI Audio system was a bit warmer, and with the Powerman faster as well. I ended up getting the Eleven XI Audio system.  Great synergy with the Abyss, perhaps unsurprising as it apparently was designed for this headphone.

I toyed with the idea of a tube amp, e.g., WA33, but there are no accessible dealers here. I would still love to try one day.

Next step is a DAC!  I have been using the DAC on the Sennheiser so far. I am currently auditioning a Linn Klimax DSM streamer, reputed to have a top quality DAC.  Sounds great, but I am not really interested in the streaming functionality or any of the other bells and whistles - would rather spend the money on a straight DAC. I will look at the Chord Dave next.  Does anybody have other recommendations?


----------



## Rhamnetin (Aug 29, 2018)

rsbrsvp said:


> Midrange is fine.  Does not sound recessed by much to my ears- just not as full as the LCD.  I like it better...- more real to life.
> 
> I believe I spoke to quickly in my last post.  I just burnt in another two hours- and the improvement is substantial.  Much faster response, better definition.  Still not STAX speed but improving quickly.  Much punchier as well.
> 
> ...



I think it depends on the amp and especially DAC used with Stax. I made my SR-009 sound... not nearly as fast as right now, like it was trying to be something else.

But yeah I had similar impressions with the original AB-1266; fast but not well driven SR-009 fast. Interesting that you hear the LCD-4 as having a deeper sound stage, I wouldn't have expected that but it does indeed have good depth.



vortrex said:


> That's interesting.  I noticed no change at all from 0 hours right up until yesterday.



Yeah I only thought I heard burn in with two headphones (both dynamics) but none of the others I have owned, so I just attribute any changes to brain burn in.


----------



## mulder01

rsbrsvp said:


> They sound NOTHING like a HD800 except the soundstage contrary to all I have read.


I'm surprised ANYONE said these sound like a HD800...


----------



## matthewhypolite

rsbrsvp said:


> Midrange is fine.  Does not sound recessed by much to my ears- just not as full as the LCD.  I like it better...- more real to life.
> 
> I believe I spoke to quickly in my last post.  I just burnt in another two hours- and the improvement is substantial.  Much faster response, better definition.  Still not STAX speed but improving quickly.  Much punchier as well.
> 
> ...



I think 150 is the sweetspot



mulder01 said:


> I'm surprised ANYONE said these sound like a HD800...



This


----------



## simorag

rsbrsvp said:


> They sound NOTHING like a HD800 except the soundstage contrary to all I have read



In my experience, the Abyss Phi is a totally different beast compared to the HD800, being the bass / sub-bass response the most obvious differentiator.

As for the soundstage, what I noticed is that they are about equally wide (and well out of your head), but with the HD800 and HD800S I felt that the soundstage was often unnaturally three-lobed, with the music coming from three main areas around my head (far left, far right and center), while the Abyss Phi provide a more cohesive and realistic presentation. Also, soundstage depth is noticeably better with the Phi IMO. 



acantor said:


> What amp are you using for the Phi?



I am happy with the Eleven XI Audio Formula S + Powerman combo. It is at the same time very transparent (almost on par with the DAVE direct drive), nuanced / layered and capable of extreme dynamics with full control. I would define it a fairly neutral amp, with a very slight touch of warmth, especially when used in high gain mode.



Thenewguy007 said:


> How do you feel the midrange/vocals on the Abyss are compared to those headphones? Do they feel a little recessed?



When I first got the Phi I felt that the vocals were recessed compared to the HD800S and LCD-4 I was coming from. After some break-in and brain adjustment, that feeling was mitigated, but still there.

Now that I am using the CC pads since a few weeks, I would say that one of the easiest to detect changes they provide over the original - to my ears - is that they move you a few steps towards the music, and the vocal presence / forwardness is increased.



rsbrsvp said:


> I just burnt in another two hours- and the improvement is substantial



I kept hearing changes for the first 50 hours of so, mainly about bass and resolution, could not swear if it were my ears or the headphone burning-in.


----------



## mulder01

jlbrach said:


> the violectric 281 is quite good


+1 on the v281
Plenty of power and versatile enough to go right down to IEMs without noise.  Reasonable price (considering it's flagship status) and nice and musical - warmer sounding, but also detailed and effortless.


----------



## FLTWS

A number of Head-Fi-er's hold the v281 in high regard. I'll hope to get a listen someday. Seems to be a true balanced design.


----------



## Rhamnetin

FLTWS said:


> A number of Head-Fi-er's hold the v281 in high regard. I'll hope to get a listen someday. Seems to be a true balanced design.



It definitely is balanced, though its use of opamps and small power transformer for the price make it questionable especially at that price.


----------



## koven

FLTWS said:


> A number of Head-Fi-er's hold the v281 in high regard. I'll hope to get a listen someday. Seems to be a true balanced design.



I'm in that boat as well. At used prices of ~$1600 it is perhaps the best bang for buck end-game SS IMO.


----------



## mulder01

$1600?  Should have done my research.  Sold mine in mint condition for about $1000... whoops


----------



## koven (Aug 31, 2018)

mulder01 said:


> $1600?  Should have done my research.  Sold mine in mint condition for about $1000... whoops



Ha.. at that price, I bet it sold the same day you posted.  I typically see them around 1500-1600 USD second-hand. Hifishark.com is a great place to gauge prices FYI.


----------



## weasel1979

What about an Hifiman EF-6, would that be a good match for the Abyss?


----------



## Thenewguy007

A new review of the CC pads

https://audiobacon.net/2018/08/31/abyss-ab-1266-phi-cc-lambskin-not-your-daddys-ear-pads/

Seems the takeaway is that the sound is more spacious, but smaller sounding. Faster transients & tighter bass, but also less musical & thinner sounding.


----------



## FLTWS (Sep 3, 2018)

I'm glad I have both, so I can have my sound either way but the CC's give me more of what I want. Listening primarily to large scale classical works I find the CC's really help with complex scoring clarifying the textures and inner voices of the different instrument groups.

I don't notice any particular aspect of the sound that isn't an improvement over the original pads. But since the pads come at the end of the chain everything ahead of it, especially the recording's quality, will affect the sound at the end of the chain.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Thenewguy007 said:


> A new review of the CC pads
> 
> https://audiobacon.net/2018/08/31/abyss-ab-1266-phi-cc-lambskin-not-your-daddys-ear-pads/
> 
> Seems the takeaway is that the sound is more spacious, but smaller sounding. Faster transients & tighter bass, but also less musical & thinner sounding.



I don't agree with this at all.



FLTWS said:


> I'm glad I have both, so I can have my sound either way but the CC's give me more of what I want. Listening primarily to large scale classical works I find the CC's really help with complex scoring clarifying the textures and inner voices of different groups.
> 
> I don't notice any particular aspect of the sound that isn't an improvement over the original pads. But since the pads come at the end of the chain everything ahead of it, especially the recording's quality, will affect the sound at the end of the chain.



I do however completely agree with this.


----------



## FLTWS (Sep 3, 2018)

Thenewguy007 said:


> A new review of the CC pads
> 
> https://audiobacon.net/2018/08/31/abyss-ab-1266-phi-cc-lambskin-not-your-daddys-ear-pads/
> 
> Seems the takeaway is that the sound is more spacious, but smaller sounding. Faster transients & tighter bass, but also less musical & thinner sounding.



I went back and re-read the review again.

Not sure if your equating "smaller sounding" with "The CC pads give you a holistic view of the performance – a few rows back". And, " You hear the big picture.", I took both of Jay's comments as a good thing. I don't like  "in my face" perspectives and in particular with full symphonic music things get muddled up to me. The way I hear the new pads "a few rows back" and "big picture" is the sound stage (and my distance from it) is now larger in all dimensions, placement is a bit more more specific, instrument outlines are sharper and don't overlap as much, the stage now has more breathing room.

I don't find the CC's thin sounding at all, but the tighter control of lower frequencies might give that that impression. If the original pads are warmer and give a sense of "bloom" to the lower frequencies and the CC's don't, tightening up those areas a bit, it's working well for me as my equipment in general including cables have signatures that tend towards the warm side of neutral, so using the same gear with the new pads presents a cleaner (but not antiseptic) sound to my ears allowing for a slightly better reveal.


----------



## MacedonianHero

FLTWS said:


> I went back and re-read the review again.
> 
> Not sure if your equating "smaller sounding" with "The CC pads give you a holistic view of the performance – a few rows back". And, " You hear the big picture.", I took both of Jay's comments as a good thing. I don't like  "in my face" perspectives and in particular with full symphonic music things get muddled up to me. The way I hear the new pads "a few rows back" and "big picture" is the sound stage (and my distance from it) is now larger in all dimensions, placement is a bit more more specific, instrument outlines are sharper and don't overlap as much, the stage now has more breathing room.
> 
> I don't find the CC's thin sounding at all, but the tighter control of lower frequencies might give that that impression. If the original pads are warmer and give a sense of "bloom" to the lower frequencies and the CC's don't, tightening up those areas a bit, it's working well for me as my equipment in general including cables have signatures that tend towards the warm side of neutral, so using the same gear with the new pads presents a cleaner (but not antiseptic) sound to my ears allowing for a slightly better reveal.



Just a heads up that my CC update will be live tomorrow on Headphone.Guru in case anyone is interested....


----------



## sobrietywarrior

Looking forward to the review.


----------



## MacedonianHero

sobrietywarrior said:


> Looking forward to the review.



Just released:
http://headphone.guru/the-abyss-ab-1266-phi-cc/


----------



## bidn (Sep 7, 2018)

Joe Skubinski said:


> I think you summed it up quite well



Hello Mr. Skubinski,

Reports about the Abyss are excellent and are even getting better with each new version, congratulations!
I sometimes consider purchasing them, but each time the same thing holds me (and maybe likewise for many other potential customers) back from doing so: the headband.
I would appreciate if you would produce another version with an easily adjustable and not big headband ( I mean a " normal" headband, if you allow me to say so), or at least keep us informed, would you start going into this direction.

Keep up with you excellent work and have a nice weekend,
bidn


----------



## weasel1979

True that. The construction keeps many customers away for sure.


----------



## MacedonianHero

weasel1979 said:


> True that. The construction keeps many customers away for sure.



Initially it did with me as well, but when you get them and get the fit right, they are quite good for long term sessions...and the sound quality is most definitely worth it! Truly the most "speaker-like" presentation I've gotten through a pair of headphones!


----------



## weasel1979

I like to lay down with my headphones and it is just hard with the Abyss 1266/ Phi/ CC. The cable hits my shoulder, the head construction hits the bed backrest. The whole thing is just kind of monstrous. Nothing new. The fit is better than expected though. 
Not talking about the sound now.


----------



## MacedonianHero

weasel1979 said:


> I like to lay down with my headphones and it is just hard with the Abyss 1266/ Phi/ CC. The cable hits my shoulder, the head construction hits the bed backrest. The whole thing is just kind of monstrous. Nothing new. The fit is better than expected though.
> Not talking about the sound now.



I use IEMs for that. no headphone can fit right for me that way.


----------



## woodcans

MacedonianHero said:


> I use IEMs for that. no headphone can fit right for me that way.



I use the Diana for that.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Having been out for over 5 years we sorta heard all this before, moreso in the early days. Should be obvious that traditional headphone design just doesn't do it for us.

In terms of appearance, it is what it is. This is one badass all machined aluminum made in USA headphone. 
In terms of functionality, it's way more than you would think. The only way to appreciate the AB-1266 is to spend some quality time with it, all depends on your patience and how far you wish to take it. I'd say given a decent budget, a willingness to listen, and a few months you could potentially align a very good system around it, longer otherwise.

The tens of thousands of 2 channel people I've worked with over the last few decades spent years seeking the sound this headphone offers out the box, and in many cases never reach this level. In other words, IMO this is about as short of a cut as we can offer to world class music playback. So the real question is of trade-offs (as real or as imaginary they may be).
BTW, if more of a curved look is your priority, keep an eye on the Diana ball...


----------



## FLTWS

MacedonianHero said:


> I use IEMs for that. no headphone can fit right for me that way.



I don't care for IEM's but even with my Utopia or HD800, if I lien my head back into something soft it pushes on the back of the ear cups and moves them out of position so ...


----------



## weasel1979 (Sep 7, 2018)

Sorry if this has been clarified before (this thread was a hard read), but are you saying that you need exacty this construction in order to get this sound?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Yes.


----------



## weasel1979 (Sep 8, 2018)

Thats great then! Thanks for taking this risk. I am coming from high-end Stax and am blown away by this sound. (But please, keep looking for solutions to my comfort problems )


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I often say, high-end is not fast food so it should not be consumed that way. If someone lives their life eating fast food hamburgers, their first taste in a high-end, freshly-made burger may taste bland but when their palet adjusts, they could appreciate the true flavors. Take your time, learn the product and carefully listen. You'll be rewarded....


----------



## mulder01

bidn said:


> Hello Mr. Skubinski
> 
> Reports about the Abyss are excellent and are even getting better with each new version, congratulations!
> I sometimes consider purchasing them, but each time the same thing holds me (and maybe likewise for many other potential customers) back from doing so: the headband.
> ...



Have you had a listen to them?  

"Normal" headbands use pressure against your head to hold the headphones in place.  

Put the phi on your head and it sounds amazing - get your fingers and press the drivers hard against your head with normal headphone clamping pressure, and bass and soundstage (and overall sound quality really) drop off significantly.  If you had tried them, you would understand why the design can never change to a spring loaded headband.  

I think 99% of people looking to run one of the world's best headphone systems, are only going to use them in the privacy of their own home anyway, so for most consumers at this end of the market, sound is more important than form factor.  Everyone (you and I included) says the same thing about the design until they spend some time with them.

If form factor is important, then you can't go past the Diana - extremely subtle looking to wear, and a sound that rivals all the other flagships several times their size.  If the ultimate in sound reproduction is the end goal, then the 1266 is it.

IF I'm wrong (unlikely ) and JPS labs do come up with a game changing headband idea, I'm sure it will be offered as an update to existing owners - just like the driver upgrade program and the ability to buy new phi cc pads.  The drivers are attached to the headband with 3 screws each side.  So if a new headband design came along one day, I think you'd be able to buy it and easily swap it over.  But I think that is a probably a bit of a pipe dream...  

They do look to have always kept the current owners in mind when doing any updates though.


----------



## Rhamnetin

^ I think the concern is over fit, not appearance. I remember fiddling with the original AB-1266 trying to get a good fit, will be interesting to spend more time with the Phi CC.


----------



## FLTWS (Sep 7, 2018)

Given that head shapes and sizes vary getting a good fit is a matter of patience and following the suggestions of others including the abyss video. And it may not work for everyone.

Of all my phones the HD600 is the least comfortable because of clamping pressure, The PM-1 is average, the Utopia is third because of weight and the narrow headband. But the Phi and HD800 are pretty much as good as it gets even though the the Senn is significantly lighter than the Abyss. In my case the wide leather headband really disperses the downward weight nicely. Different head shapes could respond differently.

My go around with the original 1266 in 11/16 had me doing everything wrong. In 11/17 with the Phi (No difference really from the  shape or weight compared to the original)  I paid attention to the video and input from other posters on how to fit it properly (it clamps more lightly than other phones I'm familiar with to get the best bass response). It was a 180 degree turn around in both sound and comfort. How much was the Phi driver and understanding how to get a good fit? Probably 50/50.


----------



## DrummerLeo

Hi everyone I have a serious question. Is it possible to have a cable under $500 sounds similar or maybe even better than stock cable? The stock cable is just too thick and long......


----------



## jlbrach

moon audio cables are far more comfortable to use and quite good in terms of sound IMHO although I constantly go back in forth between thinking i hear differences and thinking all cables of decent quality sound pretty much the same


----------



## Wildcatsare1

DrummerLeo said:


> Hi everyone I have a serious question. Is it possible to have a cable under $500 sounds similar or maybe even better than stock cable? The stock cable is just too thick and long......



I've been very pleased with the several cables I've ordered from Norne Audio, HD800, LCD-3, and an incoming one for my Abyss. Great sound and construction at very reasonable prices.


----------



## Rhamnetin

DrummerLeo said:


> Hi everyone I have a serious question. Is it possible to have a cable under $500 sounds similar or maybe even better than stock cable? The stock cable is just too thick and long......



I can't speak for the Abyss cable, but Norne Audio is excellent. The Solvine comes at well under that price. The Cardas Clear is just over $500, and I would think any Cardas Clear product is amazing.


----------



## DrummerLeo

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I've been very pleased with the several cables I've ordered from Norne Audio, HD800, LCD-3, and an incoming one for my Abyss. Great sound and construction at very reasonable prices.


I had good experience with them too, just not sure which cable I should order from them...


----------



## DrummerLeo

Rhamnetin said:


> I can't speak for the Abyss cable, but Norne Audio is excellent. The Solvine comes at well under that price. The Cardas Clear is just over $500, and I would think any Cardas Clear product is amazing.


I had one for LCD and Aeon, yes they are great, all my interconnect and power cables are cardas, but if I’m going to spend that much, I may just go for Dana.


----------



## llamaluv

The Lazuli Reference cable definitely has its own 'point of view', and may not be for everyone. There have been a few impressions on this thread. My comments here. In the end, I opted to stay with teh stock (although I really think it its qualities might be perfect for the Utopia...).


----------



## Zoomaz

I think the Abyss headband design is very comfortable, more so with the CC pads and it total makes sense to have it designed like that but i do question the amount of adjustment there is in the width on the frame.

I bet there are a lot more people that are having to bend the frame out than bend it in, ( has anyone needed to bend the frame in ? ) 

Are people preferring to have a tighter seal now with the CC pads compared to the original or just having too because of a lack of adjustment ?


----------



## weasel1979

I have a big head and I need to bend the frame but cant tell if more would be better, because more bending is not possible. Reading and writing this, I doubt that this is the best solution possible, especially at this price tag. But who am I.


----------



## mulder01

You're right - I have a big head too and would have bought an inch wider headband if it was available.


----------



## FLTWS

Me too, with the CC's and the originals I need to fully extend the headband arms. The CC seems to compress a little better thanks I guess to the vent holes around the outside. But I have no excess length to play with as far as lightening up the clamping force from what it is to see what affect that produces, even though it sounds fine as is. If the CC V2 pads are thicker  I'll have to pass on them.


----------



## joseph69

Time for me to call The Cable Company today and borrow the Abyss Phi CC and spend some quality time with them paired with the WA33.
I had borrowed the 'original' +/- a couple of years ago, but really can't recall their sound, but I do remember liking their adjustability very much and I had no issues with their comfort.


----------



## joseph69

+/- a month wait time for the Abyss Phi from TCC but I'm in the queue.


----------



## mwhitak (Sep 10, 2018)

Does anyone know if a pair of 2A3's single ended will be enough to drive the 1266's well ? Say the KR 2A3 HP  tube developed for the 1266 ? Or do I need 2 pairs in parallel ? Joe ? Thanks !


----------



## cradon

mwhitak said:


> Does anyone know if a pair of 2A3's single ended will be enough to drive the 1266's well ? Say the KR 2A3 HP  tube developed for the 1266 ? Or do I need 2 pairs in parallel ? Joe ? Thanks !



Depends on the amp? I uses a pair of EML Mesh 2A3’s in my Eddie Current Aficionado to drive my Abyss Phi, and I feel it does so quite well.


----------



## mwhitak

cradon said:


> Depends on the amp? I uses a pair of EML Mesh 2A3’s in my Eddie Current Aficionado to drive my Abyss Phi, and I feel it does so quite well.



thanks for your input! I am building from scratch and want to make sure I have enough power, so I am considering a parallel (quad) 2A3 set up, but there are engineering compromises I'd rather not make, and the single pair setup will be easier...but......can it give the 1266's enough love ? I see people touting the WA33 with 20 watts push pull as a good setup (I am going SE...no PP )


----------



## Xecuter

mwhitak said:


> thanks for your input! I am building from scratch and want to make sure I have enough power, so I am considering a parallel (quad) 2A3 set up, but there are engineering compromises I'd rather not make, and the single pair setup will be easier...but......can it give the 1266's enough love ? I see people touting the WA33 with 20 watts push pull as a good setup (I am going SE...no PP )



I only get about 10 watts from my EC studio (SET with quad 2a3s (fivre mono plate) into my Abyss/he5 but I rarely get past 11o'clock on the dial and it drives them with authority.


----------



## weasel1979 (Sep 11, 2018)

What amps are recommended for the Abyss? I am using an Hifiman EF-6 but I am not sure if I am missing out. Thinking about getting an Violectric V281 or an  Audio gd Master 9. Thoughts? Lets talk  about the best amping in here, it is crucial. Thanks.


----------



## mulder01

The "best amp" is probably mostly a matter of taste.  I think a lot of people will just recommend whatever they have at the moment... 
Is there something you don't like about the EF-6?  That might give people a better idea of which direction to point you in.


----------



## mwhitak

mulder01 said:


> The "best amp" is probably mostly a matter of taste.  I think a lot of people will just recommend whatever they have at the moment...
> Is there something you don't like about the EF-6?  That might give people a better idea of which direction to point you in.


Perhaps we could divide this into recommended SS/hybrid amps and recommended tube amps (both SE and PP). I see KR has, with JPS's input, developed several tubes with driving the Abyss in mind. Perhaps Joe could weigh in with minimum and best case wattage (for tubes) into the nominal stated impedance ?


----------



## weasel1979 (Sep 11, 2018)

I like the sound of the EF6, but I dont have any comparisons. An Abyss owner mentioned to me that he felt the EF6 sounded powerful but not very precise. Now I am wondering.. He told me the Violectric v281 / 280 would be great.
The master 9 gets great reviews all around but I have not heard about how the Abyss sounds with the audiogd master 9.
Thats all I know so far.


----------



## vortrex

weasel1979 said:


> I like the sound of the EF6, but I dont have any comparisons. An Abyss owner mentioned to me that he felt the EF6 sounded powerful but not very precise. Now I am wondering.. He told me the Violectric v281 / 280 would be great.
> The master 9 gets great reviews all around but I have not heard about how the Abyss sounds with the audiogd master 9.
> Thats all I know so far.



I've owned the V281 and used with the SEM1 and Utopia.  While I didn't try this amp specifically with the Abyss I find the Allnic HPA-3000 GT I'm using now much superior.  The V281 is a decent amp but not something I would look to pair with the level of the Abyss.


----------



## phase0

I'm happy with the results of the V281 paired with the Abyss. You can always spend more money as there's plenty of options...


----------



## FLTWS

You never know how salty the soup is until you taste it for yourself.


----------



## jlbrach (Sep 11, 2018)

the 281 is an outstanding pairing with the abyss...you have to spend a ton of money to find better IMHO.....more power than any HP needs and very detailed with excellent pre-gain abilities.....also great pairing with susvara....


----------



## ra990

I used to have a V281 and it was fun with the Abyss - added a lot to the low end impact, but I definitely noticed a small loss in transparency and added warmth when compared with direct output of my Hugo 2. I ended up preferring the direct output of the Hugo 2 and sold the V281. Hoping to get a Hugo TT 2 for the Abyss when it drops.


----------



## Rhamnetin

ra990 said:


> I used to have a V281 and it was fun with the Abyss - added a lot to the low end impact, but I definitely noticed a small loss in transparency and added warmth when compared with direct output of my Hugo 2. I ended up preferring the direct output of the Hugo 2 and sold the V281. Hoping to get a Hugo TT 2 for the Abyss when it drops.



Yeah, Hugo TT 2 ought to provide the best of both worlds, as would a HeadAmp GS-X Mk2 but that's unnecessary if you get a TT 2.


----------



## weasel1979

Interesting, the v281 should have way more power than the Hugo 2, so this is unexpected.


----------



## Rhamnetin

weasel1979 said:


> Interesting, the v281 should have way more power than the Hugo 2, so this is unexpected.



V281 has a relatively polluted signal path including opamps, and is class AB right? Hence why it might sound less transparent.


----------



## jlbrach

281 sounds fantastic with abyss....simply wonderful...is the dave more transparent?...of course it is by definition but the 281 sounds great


----------



## mulder01

Depends if your end goal is transparency or musicality.  I have heard stuff that sounds more revealing and seems impressive at first, but always got sick of it pretty fast.  

Some choose to run their Abyss directly out of the Dave, some add an amp - even though they don't strictly need to.  If you spend $10k on a DAC you should have the ultimate in transparency, but add an amp and you will add distortion, but people still do it because it's subjectively "better" sounding to them.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Just want to throw some photos




 



 

Bold sound, warm yet very clean, upper mid to treble has much smoother character compare to the original one, still the best bass quality in headphone world. For my preference easily beat the older one.


----------



## weasel1979

Do the CC Pads also improve the Non-Phi Abyss?


----------



## EndGameSearch (Sep 17, 2018)

If anyone has direct experience w/ the Phi paired w/ a Wells Headtrip, please PM me.  I'm currently running BluMk2 / DAVE > GS-X > Phi CC.  It's a strong pairing for my desire for high resolution, transparency and preference for solid state (always on works well for me), but there are occasions where I'd like just a little more meat on the bone.  I do not consider GS-X bright.  It is truly "gain on wire" which simply reveals the source, but there are moments where the mids are not completely satisfying.  I came close to pulling the trigger on the Eleven XI Audio Formula S, but this line in the AudioBacon review is a turn off. 

"Law of the land: one can’t have it all. *There are sacrifices made in clarity/dynamics versus the Headtrip *and the fuller textures and richer tone versus the WA33 – but it has enough of the important pieces to be addictively musical. It’s exceedingly smooth and very balanced in its sound. That said, it sounds superb with the character of the Abyss Phi along with the other headphones I had on hand."

In the review, Jay was referring to the $15K Headtrip reference amp.  I'm looking at the "standard" Headtrip 2.

https://audiobacon.net/2018/07/04/eleven-xi-audio-formula-s-headphone-amplifier-and-powerman-review/


----------



## Rhamnetin

EndGameSearch said:


> If anyone has direct experience w/ the Phi paired w/ a Wells Headtrip, please PM me.  I'm currently running BluMk2 / DAVE > GS-X > Phi CC.  It's a strong pairing for my desire for high resolution, transparency and preference for solid state (always on works well for me), but there are occasions where I'd like just a little more meat on the bone.  I do not consider GS-X bright.  It is truly "gain on wire" which simply reveals the source, but there are moments where the mids are not completely satisfying.  I came close to pulling the trigger on the Eleven XI Audio Formula S, but this line in the AudioBacon is a turn off.
> 
> "Law of the land: one can’t have it all. *There are sacrifices made in clarity/dynamics versus the Headtrip *and the fuller textures and richer tone versus the WA33 – but it has enough of the important pieces to be addictively musical. It’s exceedingly smooth and very balanced in its sound. That said, it sounds superb with the character of the Abyss Phi along with the other headphones I had on hand."
> 
> ...



It may be worthwhile to look into speaker amps, since as far as high end tube amps go, they offer way better bang for your buck than overpriced tube headphone amps. Check out the Bottlehead S.E.X., a 300B amp and you can get two for monoblock configuration where even with the upgrade it'd come out to far less than a WA33, and Bottlehead doesn't have a history of design flaws.

On that note, there is also Audio Note (see ANK Audio Kits). I would go this route, you can find prebuilt Bottlehead and Audio Note amps too. Might need slight modifications or just an external resistor box maybe for headphone use (since gain would be more than ideal).


----------



## joseph69

@Rhamnetin 
What are the design flaws you're speaking about with the WA33?
Thanks


----------



## EndGameSearch

Rhamnetin said:


> It may be worthwhile to look into speaker amps, since as far as high end tube amps go, they offer way better bang for your buck than overpriced tube headphone amps. Check out the Bottlehead S.E.X., a 300B amp and you can get two for monoblock configuration where even with the upgrade it'd come out to far less than a WA33, and Bottlehead doesn't have a history of design flaws.
> 
> On that note, there is also Audio Note (see ANK Audio Kits). I would go this route, you can find prebuilt Bottlehead and Audio Note amps too. Might need slight modifications or just an external resistor box maybe for headphone use (since gain would be more than ideal).


Thanks for the suggestion.  However, my preference is to stick with solid state.  I've owned a woo amp in the past.  I was perfectly pleased with it, but I've found it's more convenient to stay with solid state.  I'm on and off conference calls and up and down from my desk (home office) all day.  I don't like leaving a tube amp running 9 - 10 hours at a time and it's not good to turn them on and off over and over.  I typically leave my GS-X on 24 x 7 and listen off and on all day.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Headtrip products have a pretty bad resell value. I personally wouldn't buy them new.

They are also almost unanimously considered heavily warm & colored sounding amps.


----------



## koven

EndGameSearch said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.  However, my preference is to stick with solid state.  I've owned a woo amp in the past.  I was perfectly pleased with it, but I've found it's more convenient to stay with solid state.  I'm on and off conference calls and up and down from my desk (home office) all day.  I don't like leaving a tube amp running 9 - 10 hours at a time and it's not good to turn them on and off over and over.  I typically leave my GS-X on 24 x 7 and listen off and on all day.



I take it you didn't fancy the 009 and Carbon much compared to your planars? I feel partially responsible for encouraging that pursuit, sad to see they weren't keepers for you!


----------



## EndGameSearch

Thenewguy007 said:


> Headtrip products have a pretty bad resell value. I personally wouldn't buy them new.
> 
> They are also almost unanimously considered heavily warm & colored sounding amps.


I owned a Milo and a Milo Reference (prior to owning the Phi).  I definitely agree the Milo is warm, but impressions on the headtrip are all over the board.  If I could find a used one at a fair price I'd go that route to hear for myself.


----------



## EndGameSearch

koven said:


> I take it you didn't fancy the 009 and Carbon much compared to your planars? I feel partially responsible for encouraging that pursuit, sad to see they weren't keepers for you!


TBD....  Carbon > 009 is killer, but I'm reaching for Phi more often.  I'll receive the the new HE1000se on Wednesday too.  A dynamic amp is probably more "practical" knowing how often I rotate HP's in and out.


----------



## joseph69

@Rhamnetin 
I was only asking because I'm unaware of any flaws with the WA33.
Owning the WA33 doesn't mean I'm going to take it personally, at all. 
I'd just like to know for myself being there isn't much posted about the WA33 but positive impressions (which I agree with) about it's sound.
Thanks


----------



## Rhamnetin

joseph69 said:


> @Rhamnetin
> What are the design flaws you're speaking about with the WA33?
> Thanks



Nothing specific to the WA33, and I think the issues are exclusive to their electrostatic amps actually, which were capable of damaging the headphones due to a lack of ballast resistors and perhaps other issues. Though obviously one would need to be careful with speaker amps and headphones too.


----------



## joseph69

Rhamnetin said:


> Nothing specific to the WA33, and I think the issues are exclusive to their electrostatic amps actually, which were capable of damaging the headphones due to a lack of ballast resistors and perhaps other issues. Though obviously one would need to be careful with speaker amps and headphones too.


Thanks


----------



## jlbrach

EndGameSearch said:


> If anyone has direct experience w/ the Phi paired w/ a Wells Headtrip, please PM me.  I'm currently running BluMk2 / DAVE > GS-X > Phi CC.  It's a strong pairing for my desire for high resolution, transparency and preference for solid state (always on works well for me), but there are occasions where I'd like just a little more meat on the bone.  I do not consider GS-X bright.  It is truly "gain on wire" which simply reveals the source, but there are moments where the mids are not completely satisfying.  I came close to pulling the trigger on the Eleven XI Audio Formula S, but this line in the AudioBacon review is a turn off.
> 
> "Law of the land: one can’t have it all. *There are sacrifices made in clarity/dynamics versus the Headtrip *and the fuller textures and richer tone versus the WA33 – but it has enough of the important pieces to be addictively musical. It’s exceedingly smooth and very balanced in its sound. That said, it sounds superb with the character of the Abyss Phi along with the other headphones I had on hand."
> 
> ...



i also have the dave/blu2 and the Phi....i am currently using the violectric in balanced mode and the results are quite good...i go back and forth between straight out of the dave and out of the 281 and i think i enjoy it with the amp a LITTLE bit more although i go back and forth...i do think the 281 is outstanding for the price....the 15K wells amp is simply out of my price range


----------



## Xecuter

jlbrach said:


> i also have the dave/blu2 and the Phi....i am currently using the violectric in balanced mode and the results are quite good...i go back and forth between straight out of the dave and out of the 281 and i think i enjoy it with the amp a LITTLE bit more although i go back and forth...i do think the 281 is outstanding for the price....the 15K wells amp is simply out of my price range



I hope your main system is speakers because having so much invested in upstream and sticking with a 281 is really odd.
The Wells audio amps I heard were dreadful, even the wire with GRAIN was better.


----------



## jlbrach

it is odd to listen to the abyss phi with dave/blu2?....and why would that be?


----------



## Rhamnetin

jlbrach said:


> it is odd to listen to the abyss phi with dave/blu2?....and why would that be?



Seems like he was saying having a DAVE/Blu2 but only a V281 is weird. They are on totally different levels. 

And yeah I can see the Wells Audio stuff being... not good based on the internal breakdowns on head-case. No thanks.


----------



## Xecuter

jlbrach said:


> it is odd to listen to the abyss phi with dave/blu2?....and why would that be?



The vio 281 is a good amp, but it is nothing really special. The Dave amp is mediocre at best so I'm not suprised the vio beats it. 
To use 20k of upstream gear with rather mediocre amplification is basically bottle necking the performance you can get out of all of your components/transducers etc. 
That's why I thought it was odd..


----------



## jlbrach

the 281 is a fine headphone amp...the dave amp/dac is not mediocre it is outstanding with the majority of HP's...with the utopia the lcd-4z and other efficient HP's the dave alone is terrific...the 281 or other external amp is only necessary for a few HP's...i do wonder if you have heard any of the equipment we are discussing?


----------



## Xecuter

I've heard the gear in question many times particularly the v281 and the Dave. the Dave Dac is fine (with headphones), I was talking about the Dave's internal amp - which I find to be rather average.


----------



## jlbrach

the dave combo of amp and dac is actually outstanding with the majority of HP's out there....listen to the utopia through the dave ...you would need nothing more because it is outstanding..i will leave it at that


----------



## EndGameSearch

jlbrach said:


> the dave combo of amp and dac is actually outstanding with the majority of HP's out there....listen to the utopia through the dave ...you would need nothing more because it is outstanding..i will leave it at that


With the exception of Susvara, Dave is exceptional directly driving every HP I have owned.


----------



## jlbrach

agreed and i won the susvara and abyss phi...


----------



## Xecuter

Run Utopia from a stratus/stellaris or susvara from a wa33 and you might start to understand the importance of synergy.


----------



## Rhamnetin

jlbrach said:


> agreed and i *won* the susvara and abyss phi...



I know that's a typo, but that'd be a hell of a prize.


----------



## jlbrach

own!


----------



## joseph69

jlbrach said:


> agreed and i won the susvara and abyss phi...





Rhamnetin said:


> I know that's a typo, but that'd be a hell of a prize.


I thought he literally won both!


----------



## jlbrach

if only!


----------



## mulder01

I owned the v281 for years and I never heard another amp that made me go "wow I have to make the switch to this"
But I can also see how it might seem a little strange to pair it with a CD player that costs $20k...

I guess the thing to take away from this is how subjective "better sounding" is.  Every piece of equipment is going to have its lovers and haters.


----------



## llamaluv

Xecuter said:


> Run Utopia from a stratus/stellaris or susvara from a wa33 and you might start to understand the importance of synergy.


Sorry to veer 1 step further OT, but I must know -- you've found the WA33 + Susvara makes a really good combo then? (I have the former and the latter is on my hit list)


----------



## MacedonianHero (Sep 18, 2018)

Xecuter said:


> Run Utopia from a stratus/stellaris or susvara from a wa33 and you might start to understand the importance of synergy.



I did and I wasn't overly impressed. This took away too much transparency and introduced too much if its own character when compared to straight out of the DAVE. Your synergy comment is limited to your experiences and certainly not mine. If you have an issue with the sound of a particular pair of headphones, then what you're referring to is colouration and that is a personal preference; not a generalized statement. But if you're after "fidelity" then I haven't heard anything better than the DAVE used as a standalone solution.

That said, I wouldn't recommend the DAVE to drive the Susvara or HE6SE, I would personally recommend a speaker amp to be added in between. But literally every other headphone that I've heard sounds brilliantly straight from the DAVE.

As well, to clear up some misconceptions, the DAVE does not have a built-in headphone amplifier...some great reading here to explain how the DAVE takes a very different approach to maximize transparency and minimize distortion:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-299#post-12829875


----------



## MacedonianHero

llamaluv said:


> Sorry to veer 1 step further OT, but I must know -- you've found the WA33 + Susvara makes a really good combo then? (I have the former and the latter is on my hit list)



I think they are a great pairing, I would also consider a speaker amp and play through the taps in the back. The HE6 always sounded best that way....just another option.


----------



## Xecuter

llamaluv said:


> Sorry to veer 1 step further OT, but I must know -- you've found the WA33 + Susvara makes a really good combo then? (I have the former and the latter is on my hit list)



I've heard the susvara from a few different amps and the wa33 was definitely the best pairing ive found, but the susvara can ring at certain frequencies and it drives me nuts. I didn't find it besting the abyss in department so I didn't bother with it.

I compared the Dave against wa33 (susvara, hd800 and utopia) and  the Dave is definitely clean and powerful but not involving in comparison to wa33. Imo YMMV..


----------



## Kashtan

Which portable amplifier (or DAC/amp - sure also portable) make full open potential of Abyss 1266? 
I'm find next variants:
Hugo 2
PHATLAB PHANTASY
MASS-Kobo Headphone Amp. model 404
Red - Wagnus Bialbero Epsilon S
Triad audio Lisa III
WA8 Eclipse
ANALOG SQUARED PAPER TU-05
THE VORZAMPDUO II BY VORZUGE

And specially 
Bakoon HPA-01M 

Your's opinion gentlemens?


----------



## EndGameSearch

Xecuter said:


> I compared the Dave against wa33 (susvara, hd800 and utopia) and the Dave is definitely clean and powerful but not involving in comparison to wa33. Imo YMMV.


I can agree with this and would LOVE to own a WA33 to feed from my DAVE.  That said, it's like buying a SUV and a sports car.  Not one or the other since they both serve different purposes.  My point, I wouldn't compare DAVE's amp stage to the WA33 or visa versa.  I love running straight from DAVE for the utmost transparency/fidelity or as a clean source that serves as a blank slate for an amp to shine on it's own.  It's not powerful enough for Susvara, but it can power Phi nicely.  However, I prefer a little more power behind Phi so opt for an amp most of the time.  The trick is finding an amp that preserves all of the upstream goodness while adding it's own flavor.  I'm not there yet.


----------



## llamaluv

Xecuter said:


> I've heard the susvara from a few different amps and the wa33 was definitely the best pairing ive found, but the susvara can ring at certain frequencies and it drives me nuts. I didn't find it besting the abyss in department so I didn't bother with it.


Okay thanks!, that's definitely useful, and food for thought. 

It's interesting you mention ringing because actually my #1 pet peeve with the Abyss is the way a certain frequency band in the  bass range rings within the pads, which can lead the bass to sounding a little same-y sometimes. 

<ducks/>


----------



## MacedonianHero

MacedonianHero said:


> I think they are a great pairing, I would also consider a speaker amp and play through the taps in the back. The HE6 always sounded best that way....just another option.





Xecuter said:


> I've heard the susvara from a few different amps and the wa33 was definitely the best pairing ive found, but the susvara can ring at certain frequencies and it drives me nuts. I didn't find it besting the abyss in department so I didn't bother with it.
> 
> I compared the Dave against wa33 (susvara, hd800 and utopia) and  the Dave is definitely clean and powerful but not involving in comparison to wa33. Imo YMMV..



If you're after the colouration of the WA33, that's cool...it's a heck of an amp and I think its one of the best tube amps out there! But you are adding colouration/distortion into the mix.In the end, we all have personal preferences and if it sounds good to you then enjoy!


----------



## Xecuter

@MacedonianHero 

I'm not really chasing a coloured sound as such.. I care about dynamics, I can about razer sharp and fast transients, I care about slam and sparkling highs.  Much of which is lost/exacerbated by certain conversions and amplification. Do not be fooled, all amplification and conversion will alter or colour the sound. Transparent and wire with gain is really non existent: Arthur Savadore said it best: All audio gear commits sins of commission and sins of omission.

An amp isn’t transparent if it commits sins of omission – just that it’s harder to notice it, especially if one hasn’t heard a good tube amp..
you are right though, tube amps tend to commit sins of commission, there is no right or wrong in which is your preference.. The only thing wrong is covering your eyes and closing your ears in not being able to realise this. 

The Dave is a novel design, I had a chance to buy one at 7k aud and passed on it because the stage was really flat with speakers, with headphones it was great but with speakers the stage collapsed vertically, I think the convert 2 I'm currently using has better dynamics, slam, impact and staging far more natural staging with speakers the Rockna wavedream and MSB select ii dacs are the only DACs I've heard that may be better _to my ears _than the convert 2. So I will organise some time to compare the two after I get my room configured and treated properly..

Happy Listening!


----------



## MacedonianHero (Sep 19, 2018)

Xecuter said:


> @MacedonianHero
> 
> I'm not really chasing a coloured sound as such.. I care about dynamics, I can about razer sharp and fast transients, I care about slam and sparkling highs.  Much of which is lost/exacerbated by certain conversions and amplification. Do not be fooled, all amplification and conversion will alter or colour the sound. Transparent and wire with gain is really non existent: Arthur Savadore said it best: All audio gear commits sins of commission and sins of omission.
> 
> ...



Adding an amplifier will add to the 127.5 dB of the DAVE (which is incredibly impressive). I believe the WA33 is 95dB (quite a difference). So anything added afterwards will add noise/distortion and thus colouration. But again, if it sounds good to your ears, then enjoy!

That said, power hungry headphones might indeed benefit with extra power. I'm 50/50 with my Abyss Phi and GS-X Mk2 / DAVE or DAVE as a standalone. I appreciate both, but realize that the latter is "more accurate". But in the end it sounds like we mostly agree on things.


----------



## weasel1979

Sorry to ask again but has noone tried the CC pads with the old AB-1266? Or is there information on that they were designed specifically for the PHI only? Thanks.


----------



## mulder01

I am not aware of anyone on here saying that they bought the pad upgrade and not the driver upgrade...
I am going to take a wild guess here, and say that the new perforated pads came about when Diana was developed and more manufacturing processes were moved in house.  
I suppose if you develop an earpad that performs better than previous attempts, it only makes sense to incorporate that change into the flagship headphone as well.   
I see no reason why you SHOULDN'T use them with the original drivers. The difference between the two versions is subtle IMO.  I'm not sure how it could be suited to the phi but not the original.
I was going to say look in the classifieds section for a used pair to try them out, but there doesn't seem to be any on there - which is a good sign.
I'm just guessing but... I mean, can't be WORSE, right?


----------



## jhai

As to using the new pads with the ‘original’ 1266, I am using them & they make a great difference. 
All good, —— transparency, detail etc. 
Basically, the difference is absolutely ‘amazing’!


----------



## mulder01

^ Well there ya go


----------



## EndGameSearch

Does anyone have a frequency response graph for Phi they can share?  I've seen plenty for the non-phi Abyss, but none for Phi....


----------



## Benny-x

MacedonianHero said:


> Adding an amplifier will add to the 127.5 dB of the DAVE (which is incredibly impressive). I believe the WA33 is 95dB (quite a difference). So anything added afterwards will add noise/distortion and thus colouration. But again, if it sounds good to your ears, then enjoy!


I guess that's a call for the Benchmark AHB2 or the HPA4 then, yeah? 

I've got the AHB2 on my hit list for the HE-6, but maybe it's just the ticket for coming off a DAVE when someone wants more juice?


----------



## ray-dude (Sep 20, 2018)

Benny-x said:


> I guess that's a call for the Benchmark AHB2 or the HPA4 then, yeah?
> 
> I've got the AHB2 on my hit list for the HE-6, but maybe it's just the ticket for coming off a DAVE when someone wants more juice?



I have the DAVE and had the AHB2.  I didn't use with headphones, but with full range speakers (B&W 802d3s) and high efficiency single driver  speakers  (Omega Super Alnico and Voxativ 9.87's), there  was a major step down in transparency and soundstage  with AHB2 in  the chain.  That being said, it was still way better than  other large amps I tried in the chain.

In the end, I opt for DAVE direct, even if it means limiting the transducers that I have available.  Looking forward to auditioning the HugoTT2 to see what those 18W (vs 2W from DAVE)  can do direct

Benchmark has an extremely generous home audition/return policy.  I highly recommend hearing the amp in person (I loved it)


----------



## gonzalo1004es

Hi!, I'm selling my CC pdas, in case someone is interested: 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/abyss-cc-pads.889393/


----------



## Trance_Gott

gonzalo1004es said:


> Hi!, I'm selling my CC pdas, in case someone is interested:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/abyss-cc-pads.889393/


Do you have the Phi or regular Abyss? What is the difference between CC Pads and regular pads in terms of sound?


----------



## gonzalo1004es

Trance_Gott said:


> Do you have the Phi or regular Abyss? What is the difference between CC Pads and regular pads in terms of sound?


I have the Phi, if you’re looking for feedback on the non-Phi with the CC pads I’m afraid I hav none...


----------



## Trance_Gott

gonzalo1004es said:


> I have the Phi, if you’re looking for feedback on the non-Phi with the CC pads I’m afraid I hav none...


I also have the Phi so I'm interesting in feedback of regular pads on the Phi.


----------



## gonzalo1004es

Trance_Gott said:


> I also have the Phi so I'm interesting in feedback of regular pads on the Phi.


Well, there’s been a lot of feedback on them in the previous pages, if you’re interested on my opinion I’d happily share it with you, but I have to warn you, it is slightly different than the general one!


----------



## joseph69

gonzalo1004es said:


> Well, there’s been a lot of feedback on them in the previous pages, if you’re interested on my opinion I’d happily share it with you, but I have to warn you, it is slightly different than the general one!


I'm interested in reading your opinion. Could you please post the link page? Thanks


----------



## EndGameSearch

joseph69 said:


> I'm interested in reading your opinion. Could you please post the link page? Thanks


I'd be curious to see contrary feedback as well.  I've had my Phi CC's for just over two weeks.  I've owned all of the heavy hitters and agree that the Phi is really something special.  There is just something about it’s delivery that is very different from any other HP I've worn.  That said, tonally it is not perfect.  You get use to the signature and it's easy enough to love, but when I switch back and forth between other HP's (HEKse) you really notice that the mids leave something to be desired and the treble is not exactly subtle.  Again, I'm not complaining.  The Phi is fantastic, but I would be curious to know what different pads could do for the tone.  Unlike many, I have no issue using DSP to refine a HP's signature, but I feel this incredible soundstage could cave in on itself if you made the wrong adjustments.  Much of the air in the delivery can be attributed to the mids and treble.


----------



## joseph69

EndGameSearch said:


> I'd be curious to see contrary feedback as well.  I've had my Phi CC's for just over two weeks.  I've owned all of the heavy hitters and agree that the Phi is really something special.  There is just something about it’s delivery that is very different from any other HP I've worn.  That said, tonally it is not perfect.  You get use to the signature and it's easy enough to love, but when I switch back and forth between other HP's (HEKse) you really notice that the mids leave something to be desired and the treble is not exactly subtle.  Again, I'm not complaining.  The Phi is fantastic, but I would be curious to know what different pads could do for the tone.  Unlike many, I have no issue using DSP to refine a HP's signature, but I feel this incredible soundstage could cave in on itself if you made the wrong adjustments.  Much of the air in the delivery can be attributed to the mids and treble.


Interesting. Now I can't wait to receive the Phi CC for demo.


----------



## gonzalo1004es

EndGameSearch said:


> I'd be curious to see contrary feedback as well.  I've had my Phi CC's for just over two weeks.  I've owned all of the heavy hitters and agree that the Phi is really something special.  There is just something about it’s delivery that is very different from any other HP I've worn.  That said, tonally it is not perfect.  You get use to the signature and it's easy enough to love, but when I switch back and forth between other HP's (HEKse) you really notice that the mids leave something to be desired and the treble is not exactly subtle.  Again, I'm not complaining.  The Phi is fantastic, but I would be curious to know what different pads could do for the tone.  Unlike many, I have no issue using DSP to refine a HP's signature, but I feel this incredible soundstage could cave in on itself if you made the wrong adjustments.  Much of the air in the delivery can be attributed to the mids and treble.



Well, first I have to say I understand why the CC pads are generally considered an improvement and I have to make clear that my perception is solely based on listening to classical music. I find the Abyss Phi to be outstanding, although in my opinion they have a subtle coloration in the high frequencies (hard to describe, but I "feel" a nasal color on everything). With the old pads, I always have the feeling that I just need a minute, and I can adapt to it and forget about that color, and then everything just sounds natural. With the CC pads, I simply cannot. Specially with violins (no matter if it is a solo violin, a chamber music, or a full orchestra), I hear them quite coloured, and I am not able to adapt to that sound, I just hear it weird, to be honest. With the new pads, the midrange is clearly warmer, more present and more appealing, but in my opinion, the whole spectrum is affected somehow. Plus, I love the fact that with the old pads I can leave a small gap between me and the pads; I think that creates a very unique experience. With the new pads, I cannot do it, the pads always clamp, and I feel that as a more conventional headphone experience.
Again, I see why the new pads are so attractive, but they're not for me


----------



## FLTWS (Sep 24, 2018)

Interesting counter experience well defined.
When I have time I'll have to revisit the originals and hear what I hear.


----------



## EndGameSearch (Sep 24, 2018)

gonzalo1004es said:


> Well, first I have to say I understand why the CC pads are generally considered an improvement and I have to make clear that my perception is solely based on listening to classical music. I find the Abyss Phi to be outstanding, although in my opinion they have a subtle coloration in the high frequencies (hard to describe, but I "feel" a nasal color on everything). With the old pads, I always have the feeling that I just need a minute, and I can adapt to it and forget about that color, and then everything just sounds natural. With the CC pads, I simply cannot. Specially with violins (no matter if it is a solo violin, a chamber music, or a full orchestra), I hear them quite coloured, and I am not able to adapt to that sound, I just hear it weird, to be honest. With the new pads, the midrange is clearly warmer, more present and more appealing, but in my opinion, the whole spectrum is affected somehow. Plus, I love the fact that with the old pads I can leave a small gap between me and the pads; I think that creates a very unique experience. With the new pads, I cannot do it, the pads always clamp, and I feel that as a more conventional headphone experience.
> Again, I see why the new pads are so attractive, but they're not for me


Without the option to compare CC to the standard Phi, I don't think I understood exactly how I should be wearing this unique HP.  I had the frame fully extended but was still getting a very light, no pressure seal with the CC pads.  I finally decided to bend the frame a bit and am very happy I did.  Now that I have a slight gap with the CC pads, sound quality and the overall experience has been improved beyond what was already an amazing level.  It also really helps the treble sound more natural.  I was expecting it to primarily impact bass performance, but there are improvements up and down the frequency range.


----------



## llamaluv

EndGameSearch said:


> I finally decided to bend the frame a bit and am very happy I did.



I'm interested in recovering some of the physical clearance that I've lost due to the added thickness of the CC pads compared to the OG pads.

I've been skittish about bending the frame for fear of damaging the hinge or something. Should I be? Any tips?...


----------



## EndGameSearch

llamaluv said:


> I'm interested in recovering some of the physical clearance that I've lost due to the added thickness of the CC pads compared to the OG pads.
> 
> I've been skittish about bending the frame for fear of damaging the hinge or something. Should I be? Any tips?...


As easy as it gets...


----------



## vortrex

There is a video on YouTube with Joe showing how to bend them.


----------



## llamaluv

EndGameSearch said:


> As easy as it gets...





vortrex said:


> There is a video on YouTube with Joe showing how to bend them.



Oh that's perfect, thanks.


----------



## FLTWS

I had to increase the bend in mine with the CC pads, not enough that I could see a definite increase in the angle but enough that I could feel it.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

@gonzalo1004es 
Something to consider when it comes to string instruments would be the cabling. The AB-1266 Phi (as you know) has tons of resolution, it will pick out upstream problems way easier than other headphones, which makes further fine-tuning of your system a critical step.

It sounds as if you have an underlying 'resonance' within the system and the new pads made it worse. If you PM me with your current system config and the cables/AC cords in play, I'm quite certain we can get to the root cause of the violin sound. One wrong choice of AC cord on a DAC is enough to mess with strings. If you have different AC, interconnect, and/or USB cables try changing them up, or borrow something to try. As a simple example, analog cables using PTFE style insulation can cause the sort of sound I believe you are describing.





gonzalo1004es said:


> Well, first I have to say I understand why the CC pads are generally considered an improvement and I have to make clear that my perception is solely based on listening to classical music. I find the Abyss Phi to be outstanding, although in my opinion they have a subtle coloration in the high frequencies (hard to describe, but I "feel" a nasal color on everything). With the old pads, I always have the feeling that I just need a minute, and I can adapt to it and forget about that color, and then everything just sounds natural. With the CC pads, I simply cannot. Specially with violins (no matter if it is a solo violin, a chamber music, or a full orchestra), I hear them quite coloured, and I am not able to adapt to that sound, I just hear it weird, to be honest. With the new pads, the midrange is clearly warmer, more present and more appealing, but in my opinion, the whole spectrum is affected somehow. Plus, I love the fact that with the old pads I can leave a small gap between me and the pads; I think that creates a very unique experience. With the new pads, I cannot do it, the pads always clamp, and I feel that as a more conventional headphone experience.
> Again, I see why the new pads are so attractive, but they're not for me


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Hi Everyone,

I apologize up-front for asking a question that already appears in this thread, but maybe there are some new thoughts:

What do you consider the best amp under $4-5K for the 1266 Phi's?  I'm trying to find something as much under $4000 as possible, single-ended or balanced.  I am looking for high-resolution, a wide soundstage with good separation and imaging, and solid bass without boominess.  You know, all the typical things.  .   
I'm open to solid-state or tube, whatever gets the job done. Most of the tube amps I tried had too much haze so I've stuck to SS most of the time but who knows.  A good liquid tube sound could be nice if I could afford it.  Oh, and if it paired well with the Utopias that's be a plus.   

Anyway I'd love your opinions!   Thanks in advance.


----------



## Rhamnetin

mt-hifidelity said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I apologize up-front for asking a question that already appears in this thread, but maybe there are some new thoughts:
> 
> ...



HeadAmp GS-X Mk2 if you are using a balanced DAC, Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar if you're not. Why these? They are designed for maximum transparency and have a lot of power. Pure class A output, minimal components in the signal path, excellent build quality. See what Tyll and Bob Katz wrote about them respectively:

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/lightning-quick-headamp-gs-x-mk2-headphone-amplifier
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/katzs-corner-episode-18-icelandic-wonder

Both pair very well with the Utopia and any headphone, especially the GS-X Mk2 with its three gain settings.


----------



## Savage4

I’d suggest something that can at least output 8W at phi’s Impedance. So in your price range, enigma, used headtrip, liquid gold and whatever that outputs a lot of power with low distortion. I keep seeing people saying not that many power is needed because the physics blah blah blah. Alright let’s talk about physics here. If your theoretical calculations tell you your phi requires 15mW to reach a moderate listening level, the actual power requirement is more like 100- 200 times of that. Why? Because the number 15mW is a RMS value and audio output waveform has many sharp peaks (local max) that is way above the RMS value. If your just feed your phi 15mW all the peaks will be cut and the information stored there will be lost. In human language, your phi will sound warm, slow and anemic. Of course people have different preferences but science is science. Here is a audio waveform example.

 

Personally I have compared HPA4 and liquid gold.  HPA4 is similar in terms of specs and price tag to gsx and xiaudio formula S so I would put them in the same league. Though only gsx from the 3 is a fully balanced amp if that’s what you care about. To start with the sound stage on HPA4 is noticeably narrower than that on the Lau. Dynamics and punchyness are both better on LAu. More power, class A pure or not, clearly wins. I also tried to drive my phi cc with Dave only and I have to say if one can be satisfied with such a setup one may as well just buy a pair of any cheap headphone and just plug it in your noisy PC. I do however find that LAu has a slight bass boost so I would not recommend it if you are using a warm-sounding DAC. Phi is really a money sucker so if I were you I might just get a pair of LCD3 instead and amps like gsx would be a great match.


----------



## ufospls2

Savage4 said:


> ._* I also tried to drive my phi cc with Dave only and I have to say if one can be satisfied with such a setup one may as well just buy a pair of any cheap headphone and just plug it in your noisy PC.*_ .



Thats a bit extreme.

I would take an Abyss Phi CC with sub optimal power over most other headphones on the market. The Abyss doesn't need 25w or even 8w into its impedance to shine. A good amount of power sure, I agree. Its not as hard to drive as the Susvara or the HE6. I would reckon the GSX-MK2 and XIAudio have enough power. Whether or not they match sonically is a different story. I would reckon the Formula S would be decent given it was designed around the Abyss Phi, but I haven't heard it so I can't say for sure.


----------



## Savage4

ufospls2 said:


> Thats a bit extreme.
> 
> I would take an Abyss Phi CC with sub optimal power over most other headphones on the market. The Abyss doesn't need 25w or even 8w into its impedance to shine. A good amount of power sure, I agree. Its not as hard to drive as the Susvara or the HE6. I would reckon the GSX-MK2 and XIAudio have enough power. Whether or not they match sonically is a different story. I would reckon the Formula S would be decent given it was designed around the Abyss Phi, but I haven't heard it so I can't say for sure.



People who spend $4995 on phi are expecting the performance no other headphone could offer. If you do not feed it well, it does not sound much better than a grado GH4 which costs $550. Not to mention phi has that recessed mid which only make less power worse.


----------



## EndGameSearch

Savage4 said:


> People who spend $4995 on phi are expecting the performance no other headphone could offer. If you do not feed it well, it does not sound much better than a grado GH4 which costs $550. Not to mention phi has that recessed mid which only make less power worse.


I sold my GS-X and have a Woo WA5 LE being delivered tomorrow.  In the interim I'm listening to Phi's direct from BluDave.  More power would be nice, but it is not a necessity and the Phi does not fall on it's face as you stated.  It's great to run the numbers but it's still a guide, not an absolute.  The final outcome is heavily influenced by the demands of the music and the volume which you are playing.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Great insights/suggestions, thank you all.  I'll keep eagerly reading any other ideas that come in. It will take me a bit of time to find the best fit.
I'd like to NOT spend the same amount on the amp for the Abyss as the Abyss itself, but I understand that well-designed and well-built amps have an appropriate cost.  But I also don't think they need to be swapped out often which is why I want to invest correctly in the best fit.

Although I tend to agree with this comment, I don't plan to play at blasting volumes: _People who spend $4995 on phi are expecting the performance no other headphone could offer. If you do not feed it well, it does not sound much better than a grado GH4 which costs $550. Not to mention phi has that recessed mid which only make less power worse._


----------



## Savage4

EndGameSearch said:


> I sold my GS-X and have a Woo WA5 LE being delivered tomorrow.  In the interim I'm listening to Phi's direct from BluDave.  More power would be nice, but it is not a necessity and the Phi does not fall on it's face as you stated.  It's great to run the numbers but it's still a guide, not an absolute.  The final outcome is heavily influenced by the demands of the music and the volume which you are playing.



I think it’s just a cultural thing. Professors here in the states would say not bad to your work when you actually did a crap job because people always try to be as encouraging as possible. Same thing with all the reviews you can rarely see anyone saying something is bad. But the fact is fact. To me phi directly from Dave is worth $1000 at top if the best match makes its $4995 price tag justified.  What you find okay to me may very likely be unacceptable because I’m picky.


----------



## simorag

I am driving the Abyss Phi with XI Audio Formula S + Powerman external power supply. What I can say is that the 2W Formula S (in high gain mode, i.e. +16dB) drives the Abyss with plenty of authority and grunt, combined with a finesse, transparency and tonal balance which closely match driving them through DAVE alone.

I can easily reach realistic SPL even on very low level classical recordings of very large orchestral pieces, with a visceral impact which effectively mimics a live experience (OK, not quite there, but as close as a headphone rig can get) with no audible distortion, compression or clipping. Extreme dynamic pieces with demanding sub-bass passages - like organ tracks - exhibit a skull rattling rumble which is an experience in itself.

This was not possible with DAVE alone, but I would say DAVE is able to squeeze a more than decent amount of quality AND quantity from the Abyss in 80-90% of cases for my tastes and my musical preferences / typical listening levels (more about DAVE direct vs. DAVE + XI Audio amp here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-782#post-14394739).

As for the recessed mids issue, the Phi CC pads are able to give the vocals more focus, presence and tactility IMHO, and with the benefit of the DAVE crossfeed function, I can "see" the singer / soloist just before me and in front of the other musicians, pretty much where I would expect them to be


----------



## EndGameSearch

Savage4 said:


> I think it’s just a cultural thing. Professors here in the states would say not bad to your work when you actually did a **** job because people always try to be as encouraging as possible. Same thing with all the reviews you can rarely see anyone saying something is bad. But the fact is fact. To me phi directly from Dave is worth $1000 at top if the best match makes its $4995 price tag justified.  What you find okay to me may very likely be unacceptable because I’m picky.


Fair enough.  This is subjective and we're only responsible for our own spend.  I commented since you're stating your view as a fact.  With the level of gear we're talking about I think it's safe to say the majority of us are picky and know good from average from crap.


----------



## vortrex

I think I mentioned it before but my Allnic HPA-3000GT is outstanding with the AB-1266 Phi and comes in right around your price point of $4k.  It's 3w and drives them wonderfully.  I'm no expert, but I believe there's more to it than just watts, such as the quality of the transformers.  Allnic is primarily a maker of high end speaker based amps, pre-amps, and phono stages.  This quality trickles down to their headphone amp offerings.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

simorag said:


> I am driving the Abyss Phi with XI Audio Formula S + Powerman external power supply. What I can say is that the 2W Formula S (in high gain mode, i.e. +16dB) drives the Abyss with plenty of authority and grunt, combined with a finesse, transparency and tonal balance which closely match driving them through DAVE alone.
> 
> I can easily reach realistic SPL even on very low level classical recordings of very large orchestral pieces, with a visceral impact which effectively mimics a live experience (OK, not quite there, but as close as a headphone rig can get) with no audible distortion, compression or clipping. Extreme dynamic pieces with demanding sub-bass passages - like organ tracks - exhibit a skull rattling rumble which is an experience in itself.
> 
> ...



Wow, great write up.  This is what I am going for!  I tend to listen to classic rock and r&b more than orchestral or chamber music, but what you said just sounds delightful.  I will definitely look into those items.   Boy if only I could afford that DAVE.   That is one fantastic DAC.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

vortrex said:


> I'm no expert, but I believe there's more to it than just watts, such as the quality of the transformers.



I also believe this is true.  I learned this from pairing Mcintosh amps and their massive reserves with my Wilson Watt Puppies.


----------



## jlbrach

violectric 281..i also have the blu/dave combo and often times listen straight from this source...other times i will use the 281 depending on mood.....it is really a different experience,straight from the blu/dave is a bit more transparent a bit smaller soundstage and a bit more powerful bass....both are truly great


----------



## ufospls2

I'm assuming this is ok to post. Diana Phi


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Great insights/suggestions, thank you all.  I'll keep eagerly reading any other ideas that come in. It will take me a bit of time to find the best fit.
I'd like to NOT spend the same amount on the amp for the Abyss as the Abyss itself, but I understand that well-designed and well-built amps have an appropriate cost.  But I also don't think they need to be swapped out often which is why I want to invest correctly in the best fit. 

I tend to agree with this comment: _People who spend $4995 on phi are expecting the performance no other headphone could offer. If you do not feed it well, it does not sound much better than a grado GH4 which costs $550. Not to mention phi has that recessed mid which only make less power worse._


----------



## jhai (Oct 2, 2018)

mt-hifidelity said:


> Great insights/suggestions, thank you all.  I'll keep eagerly reading any other ideas that come in. It will take me a bit of time to find the best fit.
> I'd like to NOT spend the same amount on the amp for the Abyss as the Abyss itself, but I understand that well-designed and well-built amps have an appropriate cost.  But I also don't think they need to be swapped out often which is why I want to invest correctly in the best fit.
> 
> I tend to agree with this comment: _People who spend $4995 on phi are expecting the performance no other headphone could offer. If you do not feed it well, it does not sound much better than a grado GH4 which costs $550. Not to mention phi has that recessed mid which only make less power worse._


----------



## jhai

OK, you are speaking of suitable amps, but mention “*recessed* *mids*”, & this is something that I would really like an answer to. 
Is the Phi version similar to the ‘orIginal’, *OR* does it have an increase as to ‘the mids’.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

jhai said:


> OK, you are speaking of suitable amps, but mention “*recessed* *mids*”, & this is something that I would really like an answer to.
> Is the Phi version similar to the ‘orIginal’, *OR* does it have an increase as to ‘the mids’.



Unfortunately I haven't spent enough time with the original 1266 to answer that question.   I didn't mention mids personally, that was someone else.  So far I find the Phi to be quite well-balanced.  I'm looking for an amp to reinforce its strengths, not tune it in a particular direction.  As I am able to try it with more sources and amps my perspective could change.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dia...abyss-headphones.777618/page-69#post-14516396


----------



## mulder01

Not sure which product has just become more obsolete - the phi cc or the diana...


----------



## FLTWS

I'm pretty sure even with the new style Diana pads my outer ear would be well deformed inside those ear cups. Plus, what looks like extra ear pad depth and top frame canting available on the Phi CC's might make a difference too.


----------



## Slim1970

Finally joined the club


----------



## jlbrach

looks like the susvara in the background same pairing i have...as good as it gets


----------



## Slim1970

jlbrach said:


> looks like the susvara in the background same pairing i have...as good as it gets


Yes it is. Now I need to work on improving my front end for the ultimate in sound.


----------



## speakerz2017

auditioned this for just a bit, its built like a god dang tank and the sound quality is unmatched. but for its asking price, I think the HD800S has it beat.

the abyss is a headphone for bragging rights


----------



## Xecuter

I think the abyss definitely has better tonality, layering and texture than hd800 sdr. however I do agree that distortion and detail are better on hd800.

Saying it's about bragging rights is just silly..


----------



## Slim1970

speakerz2017 said:


> auditioned this for just a bit, its built like a god dang tank and the sound quality is unmatched. but for its asking price, I think the HD800S has it beat.
> 
> the abyss is a headphone for bragging rights


The HD800S's are a very good headphone especially given it's price. It can compete with other TOTL headphones and is worthy of a listen. But if honors were given out it would be an honorable mention headphone. The Abyss is beats it's on every level to my ears.


----------



## mulder01

speakerz2017 said:


> auditioned this for just a bit, its built like a god dang tank and the sound quality is unmatched. but for its asking price, I think the HD800S has it beat.
> 
> the abyss is a headphone for bragging rights



If you buy a headphone it should be because YOU want to.  Not sure who you would be bragging to - it's a very niche market...  I owned them for 4 years and never mentioned it to anyone irl...


----------



## mt-hifidelity

speakerz2017 said:


> auditioned this for just a bit, its built like a god dang tank and the sound quality is unmatched. but for its asking price, I think the HD800S has it beat.
> 
> the abyss is a headphone for bragging rights


Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course. Possibly not the right forum to share that one.


----------



## FLTWS (Oct 9, 2018)

mulder01 said:


> If you buy a headphone it should be because YOU want to.  Not sure who you would be bragging to - it's a very niche market...  I owned them for 4 years and never mentioned it to anyone irl...



Bragging rights? If I told anybody I know (in person) that I had an Abyss 1266 Phi CC they'd look at me like I had antlers growing out of my head. They just don't care. When they come to visit they don't ask, and I don't tell, LOL!


----------



## Rhamnetin

FLTWS said:


> Bragging rights? If I told anybody I know (in person) that I had an Abyss 1226 Phi CC they'd look at me like I had antlers growing out of my head. They just don't care. When they come to visit they don't ask, and I don't tell, LOL!



Yeah they'd only care if you had the latest Beats!


----------



## Mikey99 (Oct 9, 2018)

Slim1970 said:


> The HD800S's are a very good headphone especially given it's price. It can compete with other TOTL headphones and is worthy of a listen. But if honors were given out it would be an honorable mention headphone. The Abyss is beats it's on every level to my ears.


I own the HD800 and Abyss. I agree the Abyss is better on every level compared to the HD800. If it is worth it or not is up to each individual, evidently in my case it was.


----------



## Slim1970

Mikey99 said:


> I have both the HD800 and the Abyss. I agree the Abyss is better on every level. If it is worh
> 
> I own the HD800 and Abyss. I agree the Abyss is better on every level compared to the HD800. If it is worth it or not is up to each individual, evidently in my case it was.


Mine too!


----------



## jlbrach

i own the abyss phi and owned the 800s....lets be honest there is no comparison it is night and day,now if you want to argue value for money that is an entirely different discussion that can be had about every high end luxury product


----------



## Xecuter

Abyss has some neat tricks but only a price subjectivist would consider its technical capabilities significantly better than hd800.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Xecuter said:


> Abyss has some neat tricks but only a price subjectivist would consider its technical capabilities significantly better than hd800.


It's fine to appreciate both but can you clarify this a bit.   Neat tricks?  Only a price subjectivist...?


----------



## Xecuter

Abyss bass is a great party trick, it does bass layering and texture better than any other can, sound stage is good and imaging is great but detail in the mids is still a weak point.

Plenty of people think because something it is more expensive it is inherently better.

People need to  realise that Sennheiser spent considerably more money and time on research and development and have access to far better technology. 

To think abyss is leaps and bounds better than hd800 or even comparable to a decent speaker system, speaks volumes about the person making these claims.


----------



## jlbrach

hey,i owned the 800s and own the abyss phi and i can say with certainty that the abyss is dramatically better...others may differ but i do not think it is close and i think the 800 is a fine HP


----------



## mt-hifidelity (Oct 10, 2018)

Look, sometimes expensive boutique items are great, and not just because they're expensive and hyped.  
And the people that think they're superior are not necessarily duped into it.  it really comes down to what aspects are most meaningful to you.


----------



## mulder01

The entire hobby is subjective.
HD800 is not an enjoyable headphone for me.  Despite how 'correct' it measures
I have a $99 pair of Sennheiser's that I would rather listen to.  
If the fun police were a headphone, they would be the HD800.


----------



## Nik74

mulder01 said:


> The entire hobby is subjective.
> HD800 is not an enjoyable headphone for me.  Despite how 'correct' it measures
> I have a $99 pair of Sennheiser's that I would rather listen to.
> If the fun police were a headphone, they would be the HD800.



That’s the beauty of this hobby. I for example love the HD800 partly because I find it’s sometimes austere presentation very appealing. It suits the way I engage with music but not for all genres.
But I know that I d easily choose the Abyss over it, if I could afford it ! It is the only headphone that made my jaw drop to the floor at London canjam


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Oct 11, 2018)

Calling the AB-1266 a 'party trick' is a bit of a slap in the face to the designers. I suppose it could be perceived as magic.

Having a huge budget, dozens of engineers, or lab facilities full of measurement gear does not necessarily mean 'building a better mouse trap' is any easier, or successful. We did the research to develop that sound, just as any other reputable company. It's sound as we like it to be, a reflection of the designers, and we appreciate the fact that so many feell the same way. I can tell you with absolute certainty we've spent a relatively high percentage of our income on R&D, tooling, and crazy ways of doing things most would never pursue.

IMO since being on the market the last 5 years or so we've certainly up'ed the ante. No tricks, just an ongoing science experiment with verifiable results The real world response this last weekend at CanJam and RMAF show was tremendous. People would take the headphones off their heads and tell us how amazing an experience it was. Many could never afford it, but at least they were able to hear musical playback in a way that touches them. It verifies we are on the right track, as are the electronics evolving around our products.


----------



## joseph69 (Oct 10, 2018)

Just got the call that I'll be receiving the 1266 Phi CC loaner Friday to demo for +/- 12 days. I'm also receiving the HE1000v2 this afternoon as well.


----------



## m17xr2b

Agree in large part, I had the original abyss for one year and listened to the phi at meets. While I do know it's absolutely stunning there are other headphones that in certain areas perform better. I prefer the mids of my HD650 to the abyss and anything else for that matter and I've heard better high end than the abyss can reproduce, K1K beats it in soundstage and of course the abyss beats them in other areas.
The "party trick" of the abyss in my opinion is indeed the low end and I don't know of any other headphone where you can say it's the absolute best in a certain aspect and most of the community agrees.  That doesn't mean if you have a perfect 10 in one aspect and 8.5-9 in others it doesn't deserve respect and applause for the designers.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

After years of pursuing the end-game headphone that can do everything perfectly I've come to believe that high performance in one area might work against performance in others.  Meaning, trade-offs might be part of the equation for any headphone. 

That said, I recently got an Abyss after admiring its sound for years.  I couldn't be happier with it.   When I want a floatey soundstage then I'll opt for a hifiman or hd800.


----------



## bfreedma

joseph69 said:


> Just got the call that I'll be receiving the 1266 Phi CC loaner Friday to demo for +/- 12 days. I'm also receiving the HE1000v2 this afternoon as well.




Interested in your feedback.  I'm assuming this is from the Cable Company - they should be offering you a share of the profits by now

I'll have to ask if they make appointments at their physical location - I'm only an hour away and would love to be a kid in that candy store for an afternoon.


----------



## Thenewguy007

joseph69 said:


> Just got the call that I'll be receiving the 1266 Phi CC loaner Friday to demo for +/- 12 days. I'm also receiving the HE1000v2 this afternoon as well.




Make sure to update us with your impressions & comparisons with your other cans.
It's always good to hear from somebody who has a TOTL system throughout.


----------



## llamaluv

joseph69 said:


> Just got the call that I'll be receiving the 1266 Phi CC loaner Friday to demo for +/- 12 days. I'm also receiving the HE1000v2 this afternoon as well.





Thenewguy007 said:


> Make sure to update us with your impressions & comparisons with your other cans.
> It's always good to hear from somebody who has a TOTL system throughout.



Agreed, I'd be interested to compare notes on how you like the Phi on the WA33.


----------



## joseph69

Thenewguy007 said:


> Make sure to update us with your impressions & comparisons with your other cans.





Thenewguy007 said:


> It's always good to hear from somebody who has a TOTL system throughout.





llamaluv said:


> Agreed, I'd be interested to compare notes on how you like the Phi on the WA33.



Sure will. 
I have to say that I've been enjoying the Utopia/WA33 immensely, and it just keeps getting better and better.


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Oct 11, 2018)

I listened to AC/DC 'Thunderstruck' on ABYSS Phi and the sound was BIG, dynamic, alive. I have never heard AC/DC sounded that amazing on a set of headphones or loudspeakers. It was like I was in the sound engineer's seat of the live concert.

The ABYSS team are passionate about what they do and are diehard audiophiles. Last Friday night (weekend of RMAF show), I spent a few hours in the ABYSS room with the team after dinner. We were up till 1 AM listening to music and talking about the gear we saw and auditioned at the show. Listening to ABYSS 1266 and Diana Phi, you can easily lose track of time. My sleeping room was at the show hotel but theirs isn't. It was a 15 min walk for them to their hotel to hit the hay. Even with that inconvenience, they still stayed up to listen to music with me. Not many people in the biz would stay up that late during a show just to listen to music and get up at 8 AM to work a full show day.


----------



## Xecuter

Joe Skubinski said:


> Calling the AB-1266 a 'party trick' is a bit of a slap in the face to the designers. I suppose it could be perceived as magic.



Was not intended as an insult to you or your team Joe. I bought the Abyss early after its initial release, after auditioning basically every headphone I could get my hands on and found them to be more enjoyable to my ears. At a time when objectivists were saying how bad it measured I chose Abyss over everything else. Putting my money into your products means I definitely respect and value the product and the creators.

I never ever said I don't respect Joe or his engineers. I simply said:


Xecuter said:


> People need to  realise that Sennheiser spent considerably more money and time on research and development and have access to far better technology.



I am happy that Joe and his team have pushed headphone technology in new directions with unique frame, adjustable driver angulation and advanced driver technology.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

@HiFiGuy528 
That was a damn good concert! 

@Xecuter 
We're cool, and of course appreciate you as a customer, just needed to clarify for the casual reader.


----------



## hainss

Did a Bryston BHA-1 amp can drive well the new Abyss phi?


----------



## Hifi59

EndGameSearch said:


> I owned a Milo and a Milo Reference (prior to owning the Phi).  I definitely agree the Milo is warm, but impressions on the headtrip are all over the board.  If I could find a used one at a fair price I'd go that route to hear for myself.



Having searched for the most musical amp since the 70’s, I have ended that quest having discovered the Headtrip. It doesn’t necessarily slap you in the face with its greatness but if you listen to it long enough, you’ll get it and you can’t get enough of it’s musicality. I do not find it to be overly warm. My Pathos Aurium hybrid (my additional amp) is warmer regardless of the tubes used. As good as it sounds, it’s no match for the HT. I would say the HT leans a bit on the warm side, but it’s right where I like it. Perfect. Listening fatigue is non existent on the HT. It’s worth it’s asking price and sometimes can be found used at a great price. It is end game, no doubt.


----------



## Hifi59 (Oct 17, 2018)

Xecuter said:


> I hope your main system is speakers because having so much invested in upstream and sticking with a 281 is really odd.
> The Wells audio amps I heard were dreadful, even the wire with GRAIN was better.



Something MUST have been wrong with it. I’ve owned the HT for over a year now and it’s the best I’ve heard. It is free of grain. The only amp that can hold a candle to it ime is the Eddie Current Studio. Head to head, I slightly preferred the HT for its midrange believe it or not. The EC had original and expensive aftermarket tubes. A great amp though. Give the HT another shot if you get a chance.


----------



## Xecuter

I didn't mean to say the Wells HT had grain, just that the grainy sounding gsx-mkii was better than the units I heard.
Maybe it was broken. I've heard two different units and disregarded Wells after my audition.


----------



## lambdastorm (Oct 22, 2018)

Sorry for going off-topic, but I think Abyss might have another competitor in sheer bass performance.

RAAL debuted their ribbon headphone SRH 1A a while ago and I heard them at AES NY this Thursday and Friday. Many users thought they were the biggest surprise of the show on Canjam RMAF and I have to agree. These headphones look much the same as K1000, no earcups, no enclosure but the biggest surprise is the bass. It's not big, it's freaking tremendous. It defiles any preconception you might have about ribbon drivers, or rather, ribbon tweeters. Being used to the texture-rich, deep digging bass Abyss produces I wasn't prepared for the sheer impact and tactility the RAAL punches out. With zero enclosure and no earcups, these things produce bass out of thin air and sound more speaker-like than anything I've heard apart from Abyss. I was so impressed with the demo I stood there and listened for 10 more minutes just to make sure my ears are not playing tricks on me. Their bass performance is just that good. Talking to the rep I think what they're trying to do is to get a powerful driver to physically move air much like a speaker would. Playing some bassy tracks you can even see the drivers moving back and forth, and the excursion is something I've never seen on another pair of headphones before. My jaw hit the floor much the same way when I first got my Abyss. Every Abyss lover should check these out next time they're on Canjam, ridiculous stuff.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

lambdastorm said:


> Sorry for going off-topic, but I think Abyss might have another competitor in sheer bass performance.
> 
> RAAL debuted their ribbon headphone SRH 1A a while ago and I heard them at AES NY this Thursday and Friday. Many users thought they were the biggest surprise of the show on Canjam RMAF and I have to agree. These headphones look much the same as K1000, no earcups, no enclosure but the biggest surprise is the bass. It's not big, it's freaking tremendous. It defiles any preconception you might have about ribbon drivers, or rather, ribbon tweeters. Being used to the texture-rich, deep digging bass Abyss produces I wasn't prepared for the sheer impact and tactility the RAAL punches out. With zero enclosure and no earcups, these things produce bass out of thin air and sound more speaker-like than anything I've heard apart from Abyss. I was so impressed with the demo I stood there and listened for 10 more minutes just to make sure my ears are not playing tricks on me. Their bass performance is just that good. Talking to the rep I think what they're trying to do is to get a powerful driver to physically move air much like a speaker would. Playing some bassy tracks you can even see the drivers moving back and forth, and the excursion is something I've never seen on another pair of headphones before. My jaw hit the floor much the same way when I first got my Abyss. Every Abyss lover should check these out next time they're on Canjam, ridiculous stuff.



What amp were they using to drive the SRH 1A?


----------



## lambdastorm (Oct 22, 2018)

mt-hifidelity said:


> What amp were they using to drive the SRH 1A?


A benchmark amp, not sure which model tho.

These are very power hungry and require a speaker amp plugged into an impedance adapter to drive them, much like HE6 & ABYSS.


----------



## smodtactical

Anyone find synthetic leather or velour pads made for the abyss phi ? Also synthetic leather / velour head band.


----------



## mulder01

I think Beolab had some pads custom made, but it was not recommended by JPS labs and expensive.  Not sure if he still has them/ wants to sell them.  
I had a spare non-leather headband, but I have sold my Abyss.  Not sure if the new owner (thunder 99) is using it or wants to sell it if you can't get one directly off JPS.  
Not everything is on their website but they do custom orders.  Depends how much you want them I suppose.


----------



## smodtactical

mulder01 said:


> I think Beolab had some pads custom made, but it was not recommended by JPS labs and expensive.  Not sure if he still has them/ wants to sell them.
> I had a spare non-leather headband, but I have sold my Abyss.  Not sure if the new owner (thunder 99) is using it or wants to sell it if you can't get one directly off JPS.
> Not everything is on their website but they do custom orders.  Depends how much you want them I suppose.



I asked if they could make me an abyss without the real leather pads and headband as I don't buy leather products and they basically said no because we have tuned it perfectly and don't want to change that.

I guess I understand that because maybe other materials would make it sound worse and then I might be dissatisfied but I'm sure they could use materials and have alternatives that still sound great (just like @zach915m  does at ZMF). Thanks Zach!


----------



## mulder01

Yeah they have recently refined the design with the phi CC, to incorporate perforated pads, so I guess it's understandable they wouldn't want to change their ear pad design for the worse (sound wise).  Even if it is only a small difference - sometimes even the slightest change can make a massive impact on someone's opinion of an audio product - especially at flagship level.


----------



## FLTWS

mulder01 said:


> Yeah they have recently refined the design with the phi CC, to incorporate perforated pads, so I guess it's understandable they wouldn't want to change their ear pad design for the worse (sound wise).  Even if it is only a small difference - sometimes even the slightest change can make a massive impact on someone's opinion of an audio product - especially at flagship level.



I did not like the original 1266 and did not buy, the Phi changed my mind, the CC pads were a bonus adding to the comfort and a bit to the sound and it clamps to the driver housing with authority and no gaping to be on the lookout for any longer.


----------



## wasupdog

I know you guys are making different size headbands now.  Any recommendations on headband sizes based on head size?  I don't have any issues with the stock size but want the most support so the headphones don't drop down.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The latest gen of headband that began shipping with the new CC version is pretty tight. Padding is slightly thicker, and the elastic bands quite durable. 
Basically if the leather headband touches the aluminum above it needs to be replaced. The ABYSS website sells these accessories, or ask your local dealer.


----------



## Toropijka

Huh , I'm scared now . I'll buy phi cc or Focal Utopia , but after this case ... I need normal warranty for the whole period promised by Jps .


----------



## sneeze

Toropijka said:


> Huh , I'm scared now . I'll buy phi cc or Focal Utopia , but after this case ... I need normal warranty for the whole period promised by Jps .


it will be better to buy MrSpeakers Ether, i think they are more reliable


----------



## Laura80

If an issue arises with these headphones, do they have to be shipped to America to be resolved or can they be rectified by an authorised dealer in customers home country?


----------



## Mikey99

Laura80 said:


> If an issue arises with these headphones, do they have to be shipped to America to be resolved or can they be rectified by an authorised dealer in customers home country?


I would work with my dealer, who is authorized and is conveniently close by. He is extremely accommodating so I have no doubt he would take care of it. But I am sure he would ship it to the US for any actual repair.

I did have an issue with a product from another manufacturer, he simply replaced it and took care of it from there. In that case he was working with a regional distributor.


----------



## mulder01

Laura80 said:


> If an issue arises with these headphones, do they have to be shipped to America to be resolved or can they be rectified by an authorised dealer in customers home country?



As far as I am aware, the dealers do not do the repairs, only JPS do.  You would return them to your dealer within the first year as the warranty is through the dealer and they will handle it from there, but if there is a problem during the second or third years you send them back to JPS yourself.  I think.


----------



## AxelCloris

We've had to go through and do some cleaning in the thread, because several of the posts were no longer in-line with the Posting Guidelines. Head-Fi's forums are not the place to handle individual issues. If you are experiencing problems, please use a manufacturer's support channels to reach a resolution. Thanks everyone.


----------



## simorag (Nov 16, 2018)

After a few months from purchasing the CC pads for my Abyss Phi, I am glad to report that I concluded they are, for me, an improvement over the originals.

With the original pads, I found that my sweet spot for sound quality was with the seam like in the picture below and with the frame fully stretched out and bent backwards, so that the pads “open” in front of me.




That particular fit gave the best result for bass response (deep but not boomy), and was also very comfortable since the pads were barely touching my ears / face and I could feel almost no pressure from them.

The drawback of this (almost floating) fit was that every time I put the Abyss on I had to fiddle a bit to (re)find the right position around my ears, and any movement of my head or change of position on my couch could need a re-adjustment of the pad – i.e. more fidgeting. Also, with that fit, all the weight of the headphones rested on the tip of my head via the headband.

With the CC pads, after some trials, my preferred fit is with the seam like below. This matches the tonal balance I was used with the old ones, possibly even further improving on the bass (!).



After some adjustment to the new feeling, there still was a sense of clamping around my ears and jaw I did not like, so I decided to _slightly_ bend outwards the aluminum frame, like shown in this video:

.

Now the clamping pressure is reduced and I find the CC pads very comfortable (4 straight hours of listening only today). Furthermore, the headphone fit is very stable, it easier to forget you are wearing them compared to the OG pads. Wearing the AB-1266 is now basically plug and play, with no need for fine tuning each time I put the HP on.

As for the sound, I can say the imaging is even more pinpointed and the general sense of focus is increased. The vocalists / soloists seem a bit more forward than before.

Before bending the frame outwards, I felt that I had lost some of the speaker-like presentation of the original pads, so I was still switching between CC / original depending on music type, which is not the case anymore.

In conclusion, I needed to spend some time and effort on them, but I now think the CC pads provide a better overall headphone experience: better fit, comfort, imaging, while keeping the visceral impact, openness and soundstage width of the original pads.

.. Not forgetting the luxurious look and feel of the perforated leather


----------



## mulder01

CC Pads only?  Looks like the CC finish all over to me?


----------



## simorag

Nope, I bought my Abyss Phi in Dec 2017, when the CC was not yet presented.


----------



## Mikey99

simorag said:


> Nope, I bought my Abyss Phi in Dec 2017, when the CC was not yet presented.


I bought just before the CC came out. I was able to get a free pad upgrade. I have not seen a CC, only photos. Honestly I have a hard time telling the difference in finish from the photos.


----------



## FLTWS (Nov 16, 2018)

simorag said:


> Nope, I bought my Abyss Phi in Dec 2017, when the CC was not yet presented.



RE Paint Finish: Yes, early December 2017 is when I took delivery of my Phi as well , the new pads were introduced in July of this year. The "powdered" paint finish threw me off a bit when I got them because I was expecting that "brushed" metal effect the demo had that I evaluated. At that time a choice of color was not offered and not sure if Diana had been introduced at that point or not. I remember making a post about it at the time and vaguely remember a plausible reason for the change in finish. Now almost a year later I really like the current satin look better, it seems very durable and doesn't show finger prints like the previous finish.

On Pad Positioning: Mine are only 1 notch off from the old pads but much more comfortable. My experience was as simorag's, there was a little slop in contact when I moved my head with the old pads. The new pads remain gently in place without feeling clamped once the head band broke in a little bit (I have to fully extend the metal band for a comfortable fit and I store it that way all the time), and correct positioning is much easier when I put them on. I also think Joe recently mentioned the latest head bands may be a touch thicker for a better cushioning effect. but I haven't ordered one. (Too early in the morning to search for old posts - still on my first cup-o-Jo).

A year after purchase and I'm still extremely satisfied with my CC upgraded Phi with satin finish metal. I'm thinking on the SC and that Formula S amp for next year. That will give me 3 different cable sound profiles for my Phi and a bona fide Class A amp to play around with.


----------



## ufospls2

The original Phi had the same finish as the original AB-1266, it then was changed to a flat black finish after 6 months or so. The Phi CC is a lighter grey finish, rather than flat black. If I'm wrong on any of that, Joe will jump in I'm sure


----------



## FLTWS (Nov 16, 2018)

Mine is definitely the flat black or suede-like and so probably a later edition. I didn't rush out to get the Phi, I wanted to get a thorough audition and so had to wait for it to be come available to borrow from my dealer.
I thought the light grey was one of the new color options made available for new purchases after introduction of the CC? And perhaps the same ones as the Diana.
From their site:
"High quality two-tone black polymer ceramic coatings on the all metal frame and components, polished metal accents. Custom colors to order."


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Once we brought the polymer ceramic finishing process in-house for Diana we decided to use it with the1266, this way we're in charge of quality and schedule.

The two-tone black tends to look better in person than pictures. Here's an enhanced photo that better shows the deep black accents of the badges, top head bolt, elastic band gumdrops, grills, and driver baffle. The main frame components are a slightly grayish black, still black just not as deep.


----------



## joseph69

The finish & build quality of the Abyss Phi CC is second to none.


----------



## Mikey99

joseph69 said:


> The finish & build quality of the Abyss Phi CC is second to none.


The Phi is already amazing, looking forward to seeing a CC.


----------



## joseph69

What's nice about the CC that I noticed on the loaner pair is that there were no marks on the top of the frame where the center screw is located from making adjustments.The original that I'd borrowed a couple of years ago showed marks on the top the frame where the center screw is located from adjustments, and the raw metal was slightly visible, but keep in mind how many different heads the loaners were adjusted too, and how much abuse they take. Every multi thousand dollar high end headphone should be built from an all metal frame...not plastics.


----------



## FLTWS

Any door buster Black Friday sales planned for JPS Labs / Evolution of Sound?


----------



## AbyssHeadphones (Nov 20, 2018)

The Evolution of Sound is having a Black Friday Cyber Monday sale starting Thursday 11/22 at noon on select headphones, electronics, cables, and accessories.
(USA customers only)


----------



## FLTWS




----------



## fredfung28

Hi, anyone is using Norne audio as their headphone cables? I recently got a try with the old flagship S2, its a very nice cable which I think it's a same grading cable as prion 4s. They just released the new flagship which is S3 and also the clear edition. I just ordered a 16 wires clear edition silver cable for my abyss. Hope to receive it soon and have some review about it.
Trevor is going to send me some other top grade silver cable to me for comparison also.
Currently I am using the vertere hb cable with a double run edition.
If anyone is using norne audio's cable please feel free to have some discussion thanks!


----------



## Thenewguy007

AbyssHeadphones said:


> The Evolution of Sound is having a Black Friday Cyber Monday sale starting Thursday 11/22 at noon on select headphones, electronics, cables, and accessories.
> (USA customers only)



Code doesn't seem to be working.


----------



## paulomario77

Thenewguy007 said:


> Code doesn't seem to be working.



+1


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Nov 22, 2018)

Thanks Guys, might have been a setting preventing some from using, please try again. Any troubles PM me.

Adder- Looks like that’s the canned response when the item is not one of the sale items.


----------



## masaja

I have seen some recent inquires asking what the best amp for the Abyss is- this is my 2 cents. This is my first post anywhere, so be gentle.  I have had the Wells Headtrip II for over a month now, although it is early in the break-in process (less than 100 hours). So far, I have used only the Abyss 1266 non-Phi headphones with the amp. My previous amps include the Milo, Pass HP1, MacIntosh 150, Cary 300 SEI and Hugos 1 and II. Especially love the Milo and Hugos. Using the standard JPS cord. The Headtrip II is a world ahead anything I have ever heard before. (I am a veteran of 4 Axpona/RMAFs and 20+ CES's.) The HT II really fills in the soundstage- it adds the depth to the sound and detail to the instruments I have been looking for. The bass is tighter and well defined. Midrange and treble are well balanced and completely natural in a soundstage that sounds like you have a seat in the studio or concert hall. This is the best I have ever heard headphones sound- by a mile. Using a Bryston CD 3 in to a Hugo for the DAC.


----------



## Mikey99 (Nov 24, 2018)

I have been using the AB1266 pretty much exclusively for a while now, for extended listening sessions.  One of the concerns when I got them was comfort compared to my HD800. I just tried the HD800 again and actually found them less comfortable.  I was really conscious of the clamping force compared to the AB-1266, as well as the size of the ear pads. Interesting in that comfort is one of the advantages of the HD800. The AB1266 is a quite a bit heavier, but I find the head band design distributes the weight very nicely and it has not been an issue at all for me.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Can anyone tell me what the correct left/right orientation of the Abyss is supposed to be? I see no L or R marking anywhere?

Also can the top part of the metal headband be expanded or contracted? Seems like it's locked, but it looks like it can be used to move around?

btwm what is the general consensus the way the pads are supposed to be orientated? The thickest part at 9, 12, 3 or 6 O'clock?


----------



## ufospls2

Thenewguy007 said:


> Can anyone tell me what the correct left/right orientation of the Abyss is supposed to be? I see no L or R marking anywhere?
> 
> Also can the top part of the metal headband be expanded or contracted? Seems like it's locked, but it looks like it can be used to move around?
> 
> btwm what is the general consensus the way the pads are supposed to be orientated? The thickest part at 9, 12, 3 or 6 O'clock?



The "ABYSS" writing on the headband should be facing you (able to read it) if you hold the headphones out in front of your face.

Yes it can be expanded and contracted. If it is a new pair, it might be a bit stiff. Give it a good wiggle.

I prefer the pads with the seam at about 1-2 o'clock.


----------



## Mikey99

Thenewguy007 said:


> Can anyone tell me what the correct left/right orientation of the Abyss is supposed to be? I see no L or R marking anywhere?
> 
> Also can the top part of the metal headband be expanded or contracted? Seems like it's locked, but it looks like it can be used to move around?
> 
> btwm what is the general consensus the way the pads are supposed to be orientated? The thickest part at 9, 12, 3 or 6 O'clock?


The headphone connections at the bottom are angled, to get left/right correct they should be pointed forward.  The top part of the meal band can be pulled out and angled - no need to loosen the screw just pull on either side. It is not locked, just tight.  There is a You Tube video on this.


----------



## Mikey99 (Nov 28, 2018)

Looks like we posted the same thing at the same time! Your tip was better.


----------



## Mikey99

Speaking of the Abyss writing on the headband, is it just me or does it look like the logo of a bad metal band? Perhaps the only thing I don't like about these cans.


----------



## mulder01

There is a black metal band called Abyss







Or I assume they're black metal because of how illegibly it's written...


----------



## Mikey99 (Nov 28, 2018)

mulder01 said:


> There is a black metal band called Abyss
> 
> 
> 
> ...


See! I knew it.

I just listened to them on Tidal. Hadn't heard black metal before, not bad.


----------



## hehaw77

jlbrach said:


> I am!That is my opinion only of course I do not state it as fact.....the downside of the Abyss is the difficulty fitting it....that said if you can over that it has incredible bass,is detailed and dynamic and has a wonderful soundstage...again my take only



something is wrong with your ears...


----------



## joseph69

mulder01 said:


> Or I assume they're black metal because of how illegibly it's written...


Never mind how it's written, I'd say the 666 below the writing is the hint.


----------



## fredfung28

Has anyone listen to the new Meze empyrean headphone? May I know the differences between 1266phi and empyrean?
Thanks a lot!


----------



## Mikey99

fredfung28 said:


> Has anyone listen to the new Meze empyrean headphone? May I know the differences between 1266phi and empyrean?
> Thanks a lot!


My dealer just got one in, I should be able to listen to it tomorrow.


----------



## Mikey99

Mikey99 said:


> I have compared the Empyrean and the Abyss AB1266 using a wide variety of music that I usually use for comparisons. Amongst others this includes: Master and Commander, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon Lou Reed Walk on the Wild Side, various Joni Mitchell, Guess Who Follow your Daughter Home, Gotan Project Chunga's Revenge and La del Russo, Miles Davis Kind of Blue, Klaatu Little Neutrino, Interstellar, Inception, B52s, various Zappa. I used iMac / Roon> optical>Chord Hugo M-Scaler>Chord DAVE > XI Audio Formula S with Powerman.  The Empyreans are very efficient in comparison to the Abyss and are easily driven direct from the Dave (unlike the Abyss). But to minimise variables I went from the Formula S for both for this comparison.
> 
> They are beautifully packaged, best I have seen for headphones. Funny thing, opening the case and taking them out I couldn't help thinking of a hitman assembling a gun.  Build quality is amazing, I almost didn't want to handle them because they looked like a work of art. Nevertheless they are solid and can be handled without fear. Really well assembled and a lot of attention to detail. The cable however is poor: stiff, fiddly, a bit microphonic.
> 
> ...



I have just posted a comparison in the Empyrean thread.


----------



## fredfung28

Mikey99 said:


> I have just posted a comparison in the Empyrean thread.


Thanks for your first impression, seems abyss won a bit more area other than the wearing aspect.


----------



## ra990

Anyone else feel like they lost a bit of the imaging with the CC pads? I feel like the width has increased but it's more difficult to pinpoint where everything is as precisely as it used to be with the older pads.


----------



## FLTWS

ra990 said:


> Anyone else feel like they lost a bit of the imaging with the CC pads? I feel like the width has increased but it's more difficult to pinpoint where everything is as precisely as it used to be with the older pads.



Not at all for me, very specific and stable.


----------



## lambdastorm

FLTWS said:


> Not at all for me, very specific and stable.


Same, imaging sounds rock solid to me.


----------



## ra990 (Dec 2, 2018)

OK thanks for reporting back. To be fair, I've owned the Abyss for a few months now and have mostly driven them out of the Hugo 2, which I know is not doing them justice. I plan on acquiring a Hugo TT 2 soon and that will probably make a world of a difference.

BTW, I did listen again with the older pads and, at least on my current setup, the imaging is less diffuse with them, probably because the drivers are a bit closer to my ears with the older pads.


----------



## lambdastorm (Dec 3, 2018)

ra990 said:


> OK thanks for reporting back. To be fair, I've owned the Abyss for a few months now and have mostly driven them out of the Hugo 2, which I know is not doing them justice. I plan on acquiring a Hugo TT 2 soon and that will probably make a world of a difference.
> 
> BTW, I did listen again with the older pads and, at least on my current setup, the imaging is less diffuse with them, probably because the drivers are a bit closer to my ears with the older pads.


Why not get a separate headphone amp? For power hungry planars like Abyss sufficient power makes a world of difference, I doubt a different DAC with an okay amp section can improve that much.


----------



## fredfung28

ra990 said:


> Anyone else feel like they lost a bit of the imaging with the CC pads? I feel like the width has increased but it's more difficult to pinpoint where everything is as precisely as it used to be with the older pads.



The pads get a bit different after some days of usage. Maybe you haven’t find the right position ? 
I think imaging is better with Cc pads while original one has a bit more bass. 
I prefer cc pads more too


----------



## fredfung28

After listening to the norne audio S2 old flagship 8 wires, I made the order for a 12 wires edition of the new flag ship S3
Will report back when I get the cable. That should be around Late December and early Jan


----------



## ra990

lambdastorm said:


> Why not get a separate headphone amp? For power hungry planars like Abyss sufficient power makes a world of difference, I doubt a different DAC with an okay amp section can improve that much.


I used to have a V281 and preferred the clarity I got out of the Hugo 2. The TT 2's amp section is no slouch, I think that will be the best solution for me.


----------



## ufospls2

lambdastorm said:


> Why not get a separate headphone amp? For power hungry planars like Abyss sufficient power makes a world of difference, I doubt a different DAC with an okay amp section can improve that much.



The Hugo TT2 does 18w into 8ohms from the rear if you use an adapter. Definitely enough power for the Abyss.


----------



## ra990

ufospls2 said:


> The Hugo TT2 does 18w into 8ohms from the rear if you use an adapter. Definitely enough power for the Abyss.


The front single-ended pumps out 7w@8ohm, which will probably be more than enough as well. But, I'll definitely try both!


----------



## Zhanming057

lambdastorm said:


> Why not get a separate headphone amp? For power hungry planars like Abyss sufficient power makes a world of difference, I doubt a different DAC with an okay amp section can improve that much.



I've tried thew 1266 phi's with the Dave and TT2, and none of the Chord headphone outputs felt strong enough for the 1266 phi.

IMO the best dollar value option for the 1266 phi's is probably to simply run them on an integrate tube or solid state amp. The absolute best headphone amp I've tried the 1266 phi's with is the egoista 845, and the solistino version (nearly identical in every aspect except having speaker taps instead of headphone out) can regularly be found for under $4,500.


----------



## lambdastorm

Zhanming057 said:


> I've tried thew 1266 phi's with the Dave and TT2, and none of the Chord headphone outputs felt strong enough for the 1266 phi.
> 
> IMO the best dollar value option for the 1266 phi's is probably to simply run them on an integrate tube or solid state amp. The absolute best headphone amp I've tried the 1266 phi's with is the egoista 845, and the solistino version (nearly identical in every aspect except having speaker taps instead of headphone out) can regularly be found for under $4,500.


You sure the Solistino is only a headphone jack away from the 845? I doubt any manufacturer would raise their MSRP threefold just by adding a headphone jack.


----------



## lambdastorm

ra990 said:


> The front single-ended pumps out 7w@8ohm, which will probably be more than enough as well. But, I'll definitely try both!


Wow that's a lot of power indeed. Functionality wise they remind me of the Sprout from PS Audio.


----------



## Zhanming057 (Dec 3, 2018)

lambdastorm said:


> You sure the Solistino is only a headphone jack away from the 845? I doubt any manufacturer would raise their MSRP threefold just by adding a headphone jack.



I did mean a used Solistino since the new ones are close to $10,000 MSRP. The MSRP on the Egoista is $13,800 but I have never seen one on the used market. 

Having tried both the Egoista and the Solistino I can say that signature wise the different is negligible if there is any at all.

Also, it should be said that a rating of 7w doesn't say much at all about how well the amp can drive the 1266 phi's. Just because the volume can be driven high enough doesn't mean that the amp has the authority to handle something like the 1266's at listening volume. In the case of the Chord amps the only one with what I would consider a "good" headphone out is the Dave, and even the Dave critically lacks authority when handling the 1266phi's, relative to pure headphone amps in the same price range (WA5 with upgrade tubes, Viva 2a3, DNA Stratus, etc.).


----------



## lambdastorm

ufospls2 said:


> The Hugo TT2 does 18w into 8ohms from the rear if you use an adapter. Definitely enough power for the Abyss.


You know, I might be the only one thinking HE6 is too easy to drive. With an efficiency rating as low as 78dB it still gets to ear-splitting volume way too quick on a 50W amp, there's simply not much useable volume. If somehow hifiman or JPS releases a headphone with lower than 60dB efficiency I would literally throw my money at them, cuz that way I won't even need volume matching when I switch to headphones from speakers.


----------



## lambdastorm

Zhanming057 said:


> I did mean a used Solistino since the new ones are close to $10,000 MSRP. The MSRP on the Egoista is $13,800 but I have never seen one on the used market.
> 
> Having tried both the Egoista and the Solistino I can say that signature wise the different is negligible if there is any at all.
> 
> Also, it should be said that a rating of 7w doesn't say much at all about how well the amp can drive the 1266 phi's. Just because the volume can be driven high enough doesn't mean that the amp has the authority to handle something like the 1266's at listening volume. In the case of the Chord amps the only one with what I would consider a "good" headphone out is the Dave, and even the Dave critically lacks authority when handling the 1266phi's, relative to pure headphone amps in the same price range (WA5 with upgrade tubes, Viva 2a3, DNA Stratus, etc.).


Dang, if used price for a Solistino really floats around $4.5K it'd be one hell of a bargain. I've auditioned the 845 countless times and the only thing that prevents me from walking away with one is the price tag.

And also I agree with your 'moar power ain't necessarily better' mortar. Many 300B amps do more than a fantastic job driving HE6s, I don't see why they can't drive Abyss well, given that its slightly more sensitive than the HE6.


----------



## Zhanming057

lambdastorm said:


> Dang, if used price for a Solistino really floats around $4.5K it'd be one hell of a bargain. I've auditioned the 845 countless times and the only thing that prevents me from walking away with one is the price tag.
> 
> And also I agree with your 'moar power ain't necessarily better' mortar. Many 300B amps do more than a fantastic job driving HE6s, I don't see why they can't drive Abyss well, given that its slightly more sensitive than the HE6.



There was a Solista amp on usaudiomart with an asking price of $3,750 that was just sold. It's more powerful than the Solistino, and I would suspect they sound basically identical since it's basically the Solistino with an extra set of 845 tubes allowing it to go up to 40wpc. They do show up once in a while.

I debated about getting it but it runs extremely hot and won't fit on my equipment space, and I have other cans that practically need a solid state amp so I took a pass. Now that I've sold my WA5 I'm probably going to try to find an Airtight 300b with 120v in for the 1266 phi's.


----------



## Autostart

I would just like to comment on the recent mention on the power requirements of the Abyss 1266 Phi.

I have been doing all my critical  listening on a Woo Audio WA5 2nd gen and it does more than great on the Abyss Phi. It really dampens the peak in highs all the while keeping it detailed and extended. Plenty of power for the HE6 but kind of on the darker side if you ask me, but I feel it suits the Abyss just right. I mean, it was the choice of amps they used to showcase the Abyss before the WA33 came out. It can't be that bad, right? To me, it's my endgame amp and haven't been caught on the "For Sale" forums in quite some time.

I did, however, recently purchase a small solid state amp to use as a semi portable unit for when I go out of town for work. I chose the Massdrop X THX AAA 789. Its rated at 6watts @ 32ohms if I remember correctly and has plenty of power to make your ears bleed. Not to mention the Massdrop X THX AAA 789 only cost $350!!!! If you're in the market for a solid state amp and dont want to spend much..... hell, if you're looking for something to complement your endgame setup.... the Massdrop X THX AAA 789 will give you a run for your money. It sounds good with ever headphone I listen to and it really makes the Abyss Phi shine and does wonders for the HD800 and the new HD820!


----------



## fredfung28

btw I would like to ask if anyone has tried the mysphere and compared with abyss 1266 phi or not? I’m quite interested in the mysphere too


----------



## hehaw77

Zhanming057 said:


> I did mean a used Solistino since the new ones are close to $10,000 MSRP. The MSRP on the Egoista is $13,800 but I have never seen one on the used market.
> 
> Having tried both the Egoista and the Solistino I can say that signature wise the different is negligible if there is any at all.
> 
> Also, it should be said that a rating of 7w doesn't say much at all about how well the amp can drive the 1266 phi's. Just because the volume can be driven high enough doesn't mean that the amp has the authority to handle something like the 1266's at listening volume. In the case of the Chord amps the only one with what I would consider a "good" headphone out is the Dave, and even the Dave critically lacks authority when handling the 1266phi's, relative to pure headphone amps in the same price range (WA5 with upgrade tubes, Viva 2a3, DNA Stratus, etc.).




For those of you considering a Dave... the DAVE can handle any headphone thrown at it... I own the WA33 and the blu2 , Dave etc... and while sometimes I prefer the power of a monster amp... there are times I like the refinement of the Dave and nothing compares to it... It can drive any headphone on the market.. including the Phi's...


----------



## Thenewguy007

Zhanming057 said:


> I did mean a used Solistino since the new ones are close to $10,000 MSRP. The MSRP on the Egoista is $13,800 but I have never seen one on the used market.
> 
> Having tried both the Egoista and the Solistino I can say that signature wise the different is negligible if there is any at all.



How did you run the Abyss out of the Soilstino? Via the HE-Adapter?


----------



## Zhanming057

Thenewguy007 said:


> How did you run the Abyss out of the Soilstino? Via the HE-Adapter?



I don't feel the need for a protector for the Solistino since the amp is only 22wpc and the Abyss should be able to handle 20w without too much trouble (not that anyone would listen to it at that volume). I'd say a straight taps to XLR adapter is your best call since the HE adapter degrades sound quality audibly.


----------



## Zhanming057

hehaw77 said:


> For those of you considering a Dave... the DAVE can handle any headphone thrown at it... I own the WA33 and the blu2 , Dave etc... and while sometimes I prefer the power of a monster amp... there are times I like the refinement of the Dave and nothing compares to it... It can drive any headphone on the market.. including the Phi's...



To each his own, but the synergy of Chord DAC's amps and the 1266 phi's always felt off for me. A little too clinical and not enough refinement of the midrange.

What tubes are on your WA33? I've found that a good set of tubes can really make woo amps sing with the 1266 phi.


----------



## jlbrach

hehaw77 said:


> For those of you considering a Dave... the DAVE can handle any headphone thrown at it... I own the WA33 and the blu2 , Dave etc... and while sometimes I prefer the power of a monster amp... there are times I like the refinement of the Dave and nothing compares to it... It can drive any headphone on the market.. including the Phi's...



I agree the DAve can drive the Phi although for me there are certain recordings that require my violectric 281 with the Phi and Dave....the Susvara on the other hand requires an amp because the Dave as good as it is cannot properly drive the Susvara.....I go back and forth between using the 281 and not using it with the Phi


----------



## hehaw77

Zhanming057 said:


> To each his own, but the synergy of Chord DAC's amps and the 1266 phi's always felt off for me. A little too clinical and not enough refinement of the midrange.
> 
> What tubes are on your WA33? I've found that a good set of tubes can really make woo amps sing with the 1266 phi.



I have the stock tubes I have not rolled yet; what I currently get from the tubes is just fine....    hmm strange... the Chord products are all about detail and refinement...  but I would say for planars ; tube amps are best...  the he1000's I have sound good on the Dave ; definitely acceptable ; but sound terrific on the WA33...


----------



## spotforscott

Zhanming057 said:


> To each his own, but the synergy of Chord DAC's amps and the 1266 phi's always felt off for me. A little too clinical and not enough refinement of the midrange.
> 
> What tubes are on your WA33? I've found that a good set of tubes can really make woo amps sing with the 1266 phi.



I don't use an amp with my M-DAVE. I felt the same way you did BTW. In particular, I found the midrange to be too distant and clinical. It simply didn't engage me. Instead of selling or getting an external amp, I decided to try a different HP cable. I bought a Lazuli Reference and that improved things but not enough. 

I then bought the JPS Superconductor HP cable and it literally transformed the Abyss. Just an incredible cable! It's bloody expensive but it negated the need to buy an amp and importantly, avoid messing with DAVE's transparency by putting an amp into the chain. 

Maybe an external amp would help beyond the midrange problem I solved, I am not sure, but I can say that the Superconductor / Abyss combo is magical, particularly for vocals...


----------



## hehaw77

spotforscott said:


> I don't use an amp with my M-DAVE. I felt the same way you did BTW. In particular, I found the midrange to be too distant and clinical. It simply didn't engage me. Instead of selling or getting an external amp, I decided to try a different HP cable. I bought a Lazuli Reference and that improved things but not enough.
> 
> I then bought the JPS Superconductor HP cable and it literally transformed the Abyss. Just an incredible cable! It's bloody expensive but it negated the need to buy an amp and importantly, avoid messing with DAVE's transparency by putting an amp into the chain.
> 
> Maybe an external amp would help beyond the midrange problem I solved, I am not sure, but I can say that the Superconductor / Abyss combo is magical, particularly for vocals...




A cable definitely improves things... however I would say that it just can't compete with a seperate amp...  It all depends on what you can afford...   I was ok with the Dave/ blu2 combo for a long time till I heard the headphones an amp. It blew me away...


----------



## koven

I'm not convinced DAVE alone can optimally drive power hungry planars like Phi or LCD4. Does not sound bad by any means but an amp seems beneficial.


----------



## hehaw77

koven said:


> I'm not convinced DAVE alone can optimally drive power hungry planars like Phi or LCD4. Does not sound bad by any means but an amp seems beneficial.



It runs them ok.... decent sound... but not amp grade... eg... if you can't afford a power amp... you can be ok with the Dave until you can afford one...


----------



## ra990

The big appeal of the Hugo TT2 is that it's a Chord DAC with more than enough power and a design based around super capacitors, which should provide plenty of current reserves when needed. I think it will be perfect for harder to drive planars like the Abyss and Susvara. You'll get the transparency and resolution their DACs are known for with plenty of clean power behind it.


----------



## lambdastorm (Dec 3, 2018)

Autostart said:


> I would just like to comment on the recent mention on the power requirements of the Abyss 1266 Phi.
> 
> I have been doing all my critical  listening on a Woo Audio WA5 2nd gen and it does more than great on the Abyss Phi. It really dampens the peak in highs all the while keeping it detailed and extended. Plenty of power for the HE6 but kind of on the darker side if you ask me, but I feel it suits the Abyss just right. I mean, it was the choice of amps they used to showcase the Abyss before the WA33 came out. It can't be that bad, right? To me, it's my endgame amp and haven't been caught on the "For Sale" forums in quite some time.
> 
> I did, however, recently purchase a small solid state amp to use as a semi portable unit for when I go out of town for work. I chose the Massdrop X THX AAA 789. Its rated at 6watts @ 32ohms if I remember correctly and has plenty of power to make your ears bleed. Not to mention the Massdrop X THX AAA 789 only cost $350!!!! If you're in the market for a solid state amp and dont want to spend much..... hell, if you're looking for something to complement your endgame setup.... the Massdrop X THX AAA 789 will give you a run for your money. It sounds good with ever headphone I listen to and it really makes the Abyss Phi shine and does wonders for the HD800 and the new HD820!


I'm very tempted to grab one considering the technology but many users reported it as too bright sounding. What do you think?


----------



## lambdastorm

spotforscott said:


> I don't use an amp with my M-DAVE. I felt the same way you did BTW. In particular, I found the midrange to be too distant and clinical. It simply didn't engage me. Instead of selling or getting an external amp, I decided to try a different HP cable. I bought a Lazuli Reference and that improved things but not enough.
> 
> I then bought the JPS Superconductor HP cable and it literally transformed the Abyss. Just an incredible cable! It's bloody expensive but it negated the need to buy an amp and importantly, avoid messing with DAVE's transparency by putting an amp into the chain.
> 
> Maybe an external amp would help beyond the midrange problem I solved, I am not sure, but I can say that the Superconductor / Abyss combo is magical, particularly for vocals...


Can you give some more details how the Superconductor changes the sound? And what do you find lacking on the stock cable?


----------



## Zhanming057

hehaw77 said:


> I have the stock tubes I have not rolled yet; what I currently get from the tubes is just fine....    hmm strange... the Chord products are all about detail and refinement...  but I would say for planars ; tube amps are best...  the he1000's I have sound good on the Dave ; definitely acceptable ; but sound terrific on the WA33...



The Woo's take very well to tube rolling so that's what I would try with the WA33, since the stock tubes really don't do them justice. I haven't owned the WA33 but this is certainly my experience with the WA5 and WA22. The stock tubes are okay, but good upgrade tubes make a lot of difference.

The two best amps I've used with the 1266 phi's are the Egoista 845 and the Nagra Classic INT which is a Class AB solid state. I ended up with the INT since it plays better with my other pair of cans. Some of it depends on personal tastes but you can't go wrong with either solid state or tube amps at the top end.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Zhanming057 said:


> The Woo's take very well to tube rolling so that's what I would try with the WA33, since the stock tubes really don't do them justice. I haven't owned the WA33 but this is certainly my experience with the WA5 and WA22. The stock tubes are okay, but good upgrade tubes make a lot of difference.



Agreed


----------



## Myskyisme

For the amplifier, I just tried the pair of 1266 phi cc + XiAudio’s Formula S for a straight week. Before that, I heard the combination of 1266 phi + Wa5. I have to say I love the XiAudio combination. It’s clear and precise. Superb bass. Great soundstage and chords are always very balanced. It’s a China brand though, but I understand that Abyss is using it as some kind of official set for their exhibits. Not sure the accessibility of Formula S outside of China, it’s extraordinary.


----------



## mulder01

hehaw77 said:


> It runs them ok.... decent sound... but not amp grade... eg... if you can't afford a power amp... you can be ok with the Dave until you can afford one...



If you can afford a Dave and an Abyss, you can afford an amp


----------



## spotforscott

lambdastorm said:


> Can you give some more details how the Superconductor changes the sound? And what do you find lacking on the stock cable?



I think Jay at Audiobcon sums up the answer to your question very well and I agree with him:

_"The Superconductor cable nearly transforms the Abyss into a different headphone. The midrange and vocals on the Superconductor cable is without a doubt sweeter and more forward than the stock. A very detailed, deliciously textured, and definitely warmer cable. I love how it adds that warm-bodied sound to vocals which gives it that human characteristic. This reason alone makes the cables a worthy upgrade. The Superconductor adds volume and weight to pianos and guitar plucks and just has more warm, cozy, yummy, low-end textures. You hear more of the music naturally diffusing into the space. There’s just more meat to the bones. Compared to the Superconductor cable, the stock cables don’t have that extra body required to be convincing and natural. Instruments seem to have more presence and the soundstage is expanded in all directions. The JPS Superconductor HP cable just chocolate coats the entire range with this addictive harmonic richness"_

Full review here


----------



## simorag

Myskyisme said:


> For the amplifier, I just tried the pair of 1266 phi cc + XiAudio’s Formula S for a straight week. Before that, I heard the combination of 1266 phi + Wa5. I have to say I love the XiAudio combination. It’s clear and precise. Superb bass. Great soundstage and chords are always very balanced. It’s a China brand though, but I understand that Abyss is using it as some kind of official set for their exhibits. Not sure the accessibility of Formula S outside of China, it’s extraordinary.



Very happy with the Abyss Phi / XI Audio combo (Formula S amp + Powerman PSU) here as well. JPS Labs / Abyss dealers worldwide are selling the Eleven Audio gear, I believe, so accessibility should be relatively easy.




spotforscott said:


> I don't use an amp with my M-DAVE. I felt the same way you did BTW. In particular, I found the midrange to be too distant and clinical. It simply didn't engage me. Instead of selling or getting an external amp, I decided to try a different HP cable. I bought a Lazuli Reference and that improved things but not enough.
> 
> I then bought the JPS Superconductor HP cable and it literally transformed the Abyss. Just an incredible cable! It's bloody expensive but it negated the need to buy an amp and importantly, avoid messing with DAVE's transparency by putting an amp into the chain.
> 
> Maybe an external amp would help beyond the midrange problem I solved, I am not sure, but I can say that the Superconductor / Abyss combo is magical, particularly for vocals...



DAVE drives well the Abyss Phi in my opinion, but when I added the amp I found large scale orchestral pieces, organ, big bands etc. were just more satisfying, with plenty of air / lack of compression. Layering and readability of the music was kept very well even on fortissimos and very crowded musical passages. Also, extreme dynamics piano pieces are effortlessly reproduced.
I was struggling to get a realistic SPL with very low level classical recordings with DAVE alone (and M Scaler / Blu Mk2 makes this slightly worse due to "stealing" 3dB of additional headroom), where with the Formula S in high gain position I have abundant power reserves.

For some music types and or tracks, I still like the M Scaler / DAVE direct more, where the detail retrieval, transparency, 3D sound staging of the Chord source is delivered at the extreme, but most of the time I use the Formula S.

As for vocals, I was thinking that the same as @spotforscott  when I was using DAVE alone, but the addition of the M Scaler ha provided a significant improvement to vocals naturalness, warmth.

That said, I am looking for a JPS Superconductor (see my classified here) to complement my DHC Prion4. The Prion4 is very detailed, liquid, transparent, fast and open sounding, and I like it very much with classical (I preferred it to the Lazuli Ref. just because of its extreme transparency), whereas based on the reports the Superconductor provides a richer, darker midrange that I would like to try for intimate recordings such as vocals, jazz etc. ​


----------



## FLTWS (Dec 4, 2018)

Myskyisme said:


> For the amplifier, I just tried the pair of 1266 phi cc + XiAudio’s Formula S for a straight week. Before that, I heard the combination of 1266 phi + Wa5. I have to say I love the XiAudio combination. It’s clear and precise. Superb bass. Great soundstage and chords are always very balanced. It’s a China brand though, but I understand that Abyss is using it as some kind of official set for their exhibits. Not sure the accessibility of Formula S outside of China, it’s extraordinary.



I just took delivery of a Formula S/Powerman combo (and an SC for Phi) last week.


----------



## Myskyisme

FLTWS said:


> I just took delivery of a Formula S/Powerman combo (and an SC for Phi) last week.



Interested in your impression. It is always good to know how others feel about the parring you are using too.


----------



## FLTWS

Need some break-in time but I will comment at a later date.


----------



## Myskyisme

FLTWS said:


> Need some break-in time but I will comment at a later date.



Thanks in advance!


----------



## Mikey99

spotforscott said:


> I think Jay at Audiobcon sums up the answer to your question very well and I agree with him:
> 
> _"The Superconductor cable nearly transforms the Abyss into a different headphone. The midrange and vocals on the Superconductor cable is without a doubt sweeter and more forward than the stock. A very detailed, deliciously textured, and definitely warmer cable. I love how it adds that warm-bodied sound to vocals which gives it that human characteristic. This reason alone makes the cables a worthy upgrade. The Superconductor adds volume and weight to pianos and guitar plucks and just has more warm, cozy, yummy, low-end textures. You hear more of the music naturally diffusing into the space. There’s just more meat to the bones. Compared to the Superconductor cable, the stock cables don’t have that extra body required to be convincing and natural. Instruments seem to have more presence and the soundstage is expanded in all directions. The JPS Superconductor HP cable just chocolate coats the entire range with this addictive harmonic richness"_
> 
> Full review here


I was a cable cable skeptic, but tested the JPS Superconductor HP vs stock to humour my dealer. I was surprised to hear the difference - immediately obvious, not at all subtle. Indeed a more natural, fuller sound. I ended up getting them.


----------



## FLTWS

In my experience some cables (HP and IC - I've never tried to do a serious comparison of digital or AC cables...yet) do have an affect on the sound and some don't. I don't always hear a difference "that matters" or hear one that is truly un-listenable to my ears, but sometimes I do. I can't be certain until I hear it, or not, for myself. 
If I don't hear a difference that's fine with me. If I do hear a difference that's fine as well. 
For me Its just a matter of deciding if I prefer one over the other or if they are just different with different plus's and minus's and like them both for those differences.  
I have 3 different cables for my Phi; the stock, a DanaCable Ultra, and now the SC. The SC is still cooking in but I got a feeling I'm going to end up liking it. Its done some pretty startling spacial effects sound stage wise with a few of my recordings but with only about 50 hours on it things may, or may not, change over the upcoming weeks. 
Plus I can't be sure at this point how much of that sound is the SC and how much the Formula S & Powerman, but that's part of the fun for me.
The SC certainly doesn't sound like the other two HP cables to me but the other two have their strong sonic points as well. 
Time may  tell and may present me with clear overall winner, but it's not a life or death decision.
It's about the enjoyment I get and I don't suffer any angst over feeling I have to declare winners or losers, I can like more than one. And that extends to all parts of my signal chain.
Variety, as they say...


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Dec 4, 2018)

Just noticed we didn't have a picture of the 1/4" 6.3 mm...


----------



## Thenewguy007

Can people who drove the Abyss in under-powered amps or low end amps (less than 1 watt into 32ohms), describe the sound?

Did you guy dislike it, or still thought it sounded o.k.?


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Joe Skubinski said:


> Just noticed we didn't have a picture of the 1/4" 6.3 mm...



I have the stock and Superconductor cables for the Abyss 1266 Phi and agree the SC's are in a completely different ballpark.  The stock cable is no slouch, but the SC transforms the experience.   Its almost like they pull apart the aspects of a recording and reassemble them in individual head-spaces, enabling a vast 3D soundstage.  The sense of air and definition is greatly improved along with the level of detail and overall imaging.   I only have one quibble with them, which is that I can't get them to work with the corresponding 1/4" or 4-pin balanced adapters from JPS.  Unlike the cable in the above picture, I have individual SC cables plugged into the left and right sides of the Abyss directly connected to the balanced outs of an iCan Pro amp via M/F gender-switch adaptors.   So they are connected just like right and left speaker cables to the back of the amp instead of via a 1/4" or balanced adapter to the front-facing outputs.  I'm not sure why but when I pair them with the JPS adapter there is zero sound.  I've tried this many ways with different equipment.   Oh well.    They sound great in the current configuration nonetheless.


----------



## ufospls2

mt-hifidelity said:


> I have the stock and Superconductor cables for the Abyss 1266 Phi and agree the SC's are in a completely different ballpark.  The stock cable is no slouch, but the SC transforms the experience.   Its almost like they pull apart the aspects of a recording and reassemble them in individual head-spaces, enabling a vast 3D soundstage.  The sense of air and definition is greatly improved along with the level of detail and overall imaging.   I only have one quibble with them, which is that I can't get them to work with the corresponding 1/4" or 4-pin balanced adapters from JPS.  Unlike the cable in the above picture, I have individual SC cables plugged into the left and right sides of the Abyss directly connected to the balanced outs of an iCan Pro amp via M/F gender-switch adaptors.   So they are connected just like right and left speaker cables to the back of the amp instead of via a 1/4" or balanced adapter to the front-facing outputs.  I'm not sure why but when I pair them with the JPS adapter there is zero sound.  I've tried this many ways with different equipment.   Oh well.    They sound great in the current configuration nonetheless.



I'm a bit confused. The iFi Pro iCAN has dual 3pin XLR inputs on the front, so why would you use gender-switch adapters and plug them into the pre amp outputs on the rear of the amp?


----------



## mt-hifidelity

ufospls2 said:


> I'm a bit confused. The iFi Pro iCAN has dual 3pin XLR inputs on the front, so why would you use gender-switch adapters and plug them into the pre amp outputs on the rear of the amp?


Must be user error on my part because that didn't take for some reason.  The 1/4" adapter didn't work with the iCan or other amps, and then when I tried to go straight out via the iCan's front ports that didn't work either, but everything works fine connected via the rear ports. I'll try again...


----------



## FLTWS (Dec 4, 2018)

That's curious, over the past few months I've used both the dual 3 Pin to 4 Pin and the 4 Pin to 1/4" JPS adapters without issue. My current SC has a 4 Pin connector and 4 Pin to 1/4" JPS adapter. I plan to borrow a dual 3 Pin to compare it against as I have two amps with all 3 options. But if I had a dual 3 Pin pair I'd definitely go straight in to the dual 3 Pin outputs if available.


----------



## ra990 (Dec 5, 2018)

Thenewguy007 said:


> Can people who drove the Abyss in under-powered amps or low end amps (less than 1 watt into 32ohms), describe the sound?
> 
> Did you guy dislike it, or still thought it sounded o.k.?


They're still fine. I have mainly used them with my Hugo 2 and occasionally even with my Woo WA8 and also with my LG v30/v40. As long as I listen at a medium volume level, they sound fine. The Hugo 2 can even get them too loud before any distortion.

With more power on tap, the low end becomes very palpable and visceral. That's obviously the most noticeable change, but really they improve in most aspects. I'm currently listening on one of those new THX AAA amps and I have a smile from ear to ear because it's been a while since I drove them with something more powerful.


----------



## mulder01

Thenewguy007 said:


> Can people who drove the Abyss in under-powered amps or low end amps (less than 1 watt into 32ohms), describe the sound?
> 
> Did you guy dislike it, or still thought it sounded o.k.?



I used to use them straight out of the headphone jack of a Lotoo PAW Gold and they sounded good at moderate listening levels.  Turn it up and it distorts, but was less of an issue with the phi because of the higher efficiency.  Of all the amps I tried, I found headroom not to be super important - it more came down to personal preference of the sound signature than anything.


----------



## Beolab

mulder01 said:


> There is a black metal band called Abyss
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

The Abyss responed very well to the Abyss Death metal band haha

https://tidal.com/album/44097085


----------



## Mikey99

Myskyisme said:


> Interested in your impression. It is always good to know how others feel about the parring you are using too.


I have this as well, and love it.  The combination with the M-Scaler/Dave is the best I have ever heard.


----------



## matthewhypolite

All this talk about Dave, it was on my shortlist then decided to wait on the MSB Select / Premier. 

Until then though I've jsut receive the analog upgraded yggdrasil. I did not realize there was still so much more to be extracted from music. This simple 500$ upgrade has made a significant improvement in detail retrieval and resolution.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

I find that the Phi's + stock cable do well with the Hugo2 and volume is not a problem.  My ears give out well before I top out the volume.  That said, the Hugo2 still can't compare to a decent dedicated amp + source.


----------



## ra990 (Dec 7, 2018)

Been doing a lot of A/Bing with the older and newer CC pads. One thing that stands out about the older pads is that the image is taller for me. The CC pads widen the soundstage but at the expense of height to my ears. I think this reduced height is what I was previously noticing when I thought that the imaging was lost a bit in the newer pads. I've been listening on the CC pads for a couple months straight now, so maybe it's just the change to something different, but I might be preferring the older pads, depending on the music. The bass is less focused and more diffuse with the older pads, but that can be fun depending on the track. Nice to have both to swap out when I feel like a change in sound.


----------



## Axel

Any one tried the Abyss phi with the Pass HPA-1?
Wondering if that’s a good combination or the Abyss is too demanding for it.

Thanks!


----------



## mulder01

ra990 said:


> Been doing a lot of A/Bing with the older and newer CC pads. One thing that stands out about the older pads is that the image is taller for me. The CC pads widen the soundstage but at the expense of height to my ears. I think this reduced height is what I was previously noticing when I thought that the imaging was lost a bit in the newer pads. I've been listening on the CC pads for a couple months straight now, so maybe it's just the change to something different, but I might be preferring the older pads, depending on the music. The bass is less focused and more diffuse with the older pads, but that can be fun depending on the track. Nice to have both to swap out when I feel like a change in sound.


Next part of the hobby: Pad rolling.


----------



## ra990 (Dec 8, 2018)

Does anyone have any trouble with Radiohead - Codex on their Abyss Phi at a moderate-high volume? This is a track that I'm currently having a lot of trouble playing without some odd resonant/distortion type noise when the vocals come in (around 40 seconds in). Granted, it may not be a well mastered track, but just curious if anybody else notices anything similar on their headphones. Trying to do some troubleshooting and would really appreciate the feedback.


----------



## x RELIC x

ra990 said:


> Does anyone have any trouble with Radiohead - Codex on their Abyss Phi at a moderate-high volume? This is a track that I'm currently having a lot of trouble playing without some odd resonant/distortion type noise when the vocals come in. Granted, it may not be a well mastered track, but just curious if anybody else notices anything similar on their headphones. Trying to do some troubleshooting and would really appreciate the feedback.



Very likely crap mastering (I don't have the track to confirm - or the Abyss for that matter, lol). I find that usually when the dynamic range of the track is terrible I will also hear distortion in the mix. Not always, but usually.

Here is Radiohead's King Of Limbs album's dynamic range (it's abysmal):

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/130429


----------



## Axel

Axel said:


> Any one tried the Abyss phi with the Pass HPA-1?
> Wondering if that’s a good combination or the Abyss is too demanding for it.
> 
> Thanks!


^Bumpy! Anyone? No one?


----------



## mulder01

Axel said:


> ^Bumpy! Anyone? No one?


The phi is not as power hungry as you think.  Are you mostly worried about power requirement or synergy?


----------



## koven

matthewhypolite said:


> All this talk about Dave, it was on my shortlist then decided to wait on the MSB Select / Premier.
> 
> Until then though I've jsut receive the analog upgraded yggdrasil. I did not realize there was still so much more to be extracted from music. This simple 500$ upgrade has made a significant improvement in detail retrieval and resolution.



I had a similar revelation moving from Yggy A2 to DAVE.. didn't expect such a night and day difference, I was quite impressed.


----------



## Axel

mulder01 said:


> The phi is not as power hungry as you think.  Are you mostly worried about power requirement or synergy?


Well, both...
Thanks!


----------



## vortrex

I think I mentioned it earlier in this thread somewhere but I'm using the Allnic HPA-3000GT with amazing results.  Price is around $4k.


----------



## astrostar59

mulder01 said:


> The phi is not as power hungry as you think.  Are you mostly worried about power requirement or synergy?



mulder01, how is it going with your system now, are you still considering selling it? I was hoping you changed your mind.

I seem to have got in deeper into Headphones. After my Stax 009 and 007 sale and the Carbon amp, I bought the LCD4s, then the V281.

I heard the Malvalve head amp at Munich hifi show this year, and it was magical, beyond what I have heard on any SS amps to date. This got me thinking.



 

 

 

 

I have got the *Aries Cerat Genus* coming in. It is an integrated SET with 25 watts using big bottle tubes. Besides speaker use, it also has an excellent headphone output for both high and low impedance headphones driven by the powerful output tubes. 

I was curious about the Viva Egoista for a while, wanting an ultimate tube amp for headphone use. I now I am thinking the Genus could be my end game headphone amplifier. I have heard it on speakers and it was fabulous, incredibly liquid with classic SET midrange magic, smooth treble and superb bass control and dynamics. Best I have heard in a tube amplifier to date. It is 15K euros, so an investment, but has the dual purpose of a high end integrated speaker amplifier as well as a headphone amplifier. I am told it can power any headphone. The amplifier is a big beast and weights in at 67 kilos.

I'll report back here with my findings. Anyone in Spain who wants to hear it please PM me. I am the official distributor for Aries Cerat in Spain now, so I can demo any of their products and provide local support.


----------



## Zhanming057

astrostar59 said:


> mulder01, how is it going with your system now, are you still considering selling it? I was hoping you changed your mind.
> 
> I seem to have got in deeper into Headphones. After my Stax 009 and 007 sale and the Carbon amp, I bought the LCD4s, then the V281.
> 
> ...



The Egoista is truly wonderful on the 1266phi and the Solistino sounds virtually identical. I would buy one for the 1266 phi if it weren't for the size and heat. It's a lot of amp to handle and I live in a small apartment. 

I have actually never heard a 813 driven SET amp, but it seems like it has enough power and I doubt the Egoista/Solistino will sound any better than the Genus.







I wouldn't completely rule out solid state amps, though. I've been using my 1266 phi's with the Nagra Classic INT and I would rate this combo up there with the Egoista and WA33 elite. While tonality loses out to top tube amps density is a lot higher on the INT than even the big 845 offerings, and it does seem to bring out the best technical aspects of the 1266phi in terms of mid-range resolution and bass control. A different sound but one that I'm very happy with.


----------



## vortrex

How are you guys connecting your 1266 to non-headphone amps like the Nagra?


----------



## Zhanming057

vortrex said:


> How are you guys connecting your 1266 to non-headphone amps like the Nagra?



Custom-made speaker taps to XLR cable. No need for an adapter box since the 1266 phi's can take well in excess of 15w, IMO sound quality takes the least amount of penalty when you don't put resistors or caps between the cans and the amp. I have not found an adapter box readily available outside of Asia that doesn't degrade sound quality noticeably, with the Hifiman adapter being a pretty bad case among others.


----------



## vortrex

Running off the speaker taps at 8 or 16 ohm poses no issues?  I have a 10w 300B amp and a headphone amp from the same company.  Now I'm wondering what the 300B might sound like in comparison.  Does Abyss offer an adapter made of the same cable type?


----------



## Zhanming057

vortrex said:


> Running off the speaker taps at 8 or 16 ohm poses no issues?  I have a 10w 300B amp and a headphone amp from the same company.  Now I'm wondering what the 300B might sound like in comparison.  Does Abyss offer an adapter made of the same cable type?



I'm sure they'll build one if you ask. A short adapter isn't going to impact SQ a lot though. I'd just use very high quality chassis wire (which is what I am using) or get some stuff from DHC.


----------



## x RELIC x

Zhanming057 said:


> the 1266 phi's can take well in excess of 15w



Certainly not RMS, likely just for a very short burst if true. There is at least one instance I've read about where a user blew his Abyss driver and I don't think he was anywhere near 15W.


----------



## Zhanming057

x RELIC x said:


> Certainly not RMS, likely just for a very short burst if true. There is at least one instance I've read about where a user blew his Abyss driver and I don't think he was anywhere near 15W.



Yes I was referring to peak load. Just saying that you can't blow these out as easily as, say, the HD800S. Practically they get too loud for me even at 1-2W peak.


----------



## mulder01

Axel said:


> Well, both...
> Thanks!



Sorry for the delay - I'm sure you've probably made up your mind by now, but I have tried a few lower powered (portable) amps with the Abyss and the power has to get REALLY low before it's an issue.  I'm sure you've seen this website: http://www.digizoid.com/headphones-power.html  The only member I can think of that posts in this group and has pass labs gear uses their speaker amps from memory... Sorry, that's about all I've got for you



astrostar59 said:


> mulder01, how is it going with your system now, are you still considering selling it? I was hoping you changed your mind.



It's all gone!  Not because I didn't like it or anything - I just rarely made the time to enjoy it.  Your system is looking mighty impressive though!


----------



## astrostar59

It's all gone!  Not because I didn't like it or anything - I just rarely made the time to enjoy it.  Your system is looking mighty impressive though![/QUOTE]

I am sad that you have sold everything. There have been some other hardcore users on the forum who have also sold their gear. I had a big gap some years ago, then came back to it. My DAC and new amplifier is used on my speakers, so I really only end up with the LCD4 investment and, I would keep the V281 for the convenience of it and to take to my folks house on holidays. I just find I enjoy the different presentation of headphones, and my living environment doesn't suit playing music on the big speakers at certain times of the day.


Mulder01, wether you keep posting, or just pop in now and then, I have enjoyed your input on the forum a lot. I am hoping you buy back in! Lets see.....


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> Mulder01, wether you keep posting, or just pop in now and then, I have enjoyed your input on the forum a lot. I am hoping you buy back in! Lets see.....


@mulder01 you castrated ram.


----------



## Axel

mulder01 said:


> Sorry for the delay - I'm sure you've probably made up your mind by now, but I have tried a few lower powered (portable) amps with the Abyss and the power has to get REALLY low before it's an issue.  I'm sure you've seen this website: http://www.digizoid.com/headphones-power.html  The only member I can think of that posts in this group and has pass labs gear uses their speaker amps from memory... Sorry, that's about all I've got for you


Thanks mulder!
Didn’t make up my mind just yet. Thinking of maybe getting the Viva Egoista instead of my Pass...


----------



## astrostar59

Axel said:


> Thanks mulder!
> Didn’t make up my mind just yet. Thinking of maybe getting the Viva Egoista instead of my Pass...





 

 

 

 
Do you use speakers as well? I am asking as I have ordered the Aries Cerat Genus,it is a fantastic SET integrated amplifier that also has a true low and high impedance headphone output. I would suggest it competes with any high end headphone amplifier. The Genus is 15K euros and outputs 25 watts SE class A with 40 watts peaks into A/B. It uses the big bottle 813 tubes and E280F Siemens driver tubes. If anyone wants to hear it in Spain or Portugal, PM me.


----------



## mulder01

astrostar59 said:


> I am sad that you have sold everything. There have been some other hardcore users on the forum who have also sold their gear. I had a big gap some years ago, then came back to it. My DAC and new amplifier is used on my speakers, so I really only end up with the LCD4 investment and, I would keep the V281 for the convenience of it and to take to my folks house on holidays. I just find I enjoy the different presentation of headphones, and my living environment doesn't suit playing music on the big speakers at certain times of the day.
> 
> 
> Mulder01, wether you keep posting, or just pop in now and then, I have enjoyed your input on the forum a lot. I am hoping you buy back in! Lets see.....



Thanks!  I actually sold my stuff a few months ago but hang around a bit still.  I think my next audio purchase will likely be... a bluetooth speaker   In years from now, who knows.  Abyss Phi CIEMs maybe...



Axel said:


> Thanks mulder!
> Didn’t make up my mind just yet. Thinking of maybe getting the Viva Egoista instead of my Pass...



If your budget stretches that far, you could get just about anything... I have heard from a few guys that have tried the Egoista locally, that even the chassis can get too hot to touch when it's running.  I suppose that could be a good or bad thing depending on what part of the world you live in... That would be a deal-breaker for me in Queensland, AU...


----------



## Axel

astrostar59 said:


> Do you use speakers as well? I am asking as I have ordered the Aries Cerat Genus,it is a fantastic SET integrated amplifier that also has a true low and high impedance headphone output. I would suggest it competes with any high end headphone amplifier. The Genus is 15K euros and outputs 25 watts SE class A with 40 watts peaks into A/B. It uses the big bottle 813 tubes and E280F Siemens driver tubes. If anyone wants to hear it in Spain or Portugal, PM me.


I do, but that kind of amp will not drive them properly. I have a Magico S3, it is very demanding of amps. I've had a 60W class A amp, which doubles its output to 1 ohm(!) but when I switched to a class A/B 150W (reaches 1.2KW at 1 ohm(!)) the S3 came alive! So, unfortunately, 25/40W from a SET-based amp will not work...
Anyway, thanks for the tip!



mulder01 said:


> If your budget stretches that far, you could get just about anything... I have heard from a few guys that have tried the Egoista locally, that even the chassis can get too hot to touch when it's running.  I suppose that could be a good or bad thing depending on what part of the world you live in... That would be a deal-breaker for me in Queensland, AU...


Interesting, thanks.
This sounds like a poor design issue. I've owned SET amps in the past, and the good ones did not get extremely hot.


----------



## Zhanming057

Axel said:


> I do, but that kind of amp will not drive them properly. I have a Magico S3, it is very demanding of amps. I've had a 60W class A amp, which doubles its output to 1 ohm(!) but when I switched to a class A/B 150W (reaches 1.2KW at 1 ohm(!)) the S3 came alive! So, unfortunately, 25/40W from a SET-based amp will not work...
> Anyway, thanks for the tip!
> 
> Interesting, thanks.
> This sounds like a poor design issue. I've owned SET amps in the past, and the good ones did not get extremely hot.



My understanding is that Viva runs the tubes at a fairly high amount of voltage in addition to 845 tubes being pretty hot on their own. Every 845 amp that I have tried is pretty hot. The sound is incredibly, incredibly good though. If price is no object it is one of the best headphone amps period. The integrated amp version is slightly cheaper and sounds virtually the same, you just need a custom adapter from taps to XLR.

IMO, if you're shopping in this price range, going straight for used integrates in the price range will get you a lot more bang for buck than a $14,000 headphone-only amp. A lot of integrated amps will be noisy with the 1266 phi's but there are true gems out there. My Nagra Classic INT is dead quiet with the 1266 phi's and I think the bass texture with the INT is even better than the Egoista. The Egoista does have the better mids though. I've also had pretty good experiences with Audio Research and Simaudio's big power amps directly driving the 1266 phi's.


----------



## Axel

Zhanming057 said:


> My understanding is that Viva runs the tubes at a fairly high amount of voltage in addition to 845 tubes being pretty hot on their own. Every 845 amp that I have tried is pretty hot. The sound is incredibly, incredibly good though. If price is no object it is one of the best headphone amps period. The integrated amp version is slightly cheaper and sounds virtually the same, you just need a custom adapter from taps to XLR.
> 
> IMO, if you're shopping in this price range, going straight for used integrates in the price range will get you a lot more bang for buck than a $14,000 headphone-only amp. A lot of integrated amps will be noisy with the 1266 phi's but there are true gems out there. My Nagra Classic INT is dead quiet with the 1266 phi's and I think the bass texture with the INT is even better than the Egoista. The Egoista does have the better mids though. I've also had pretty good experiences with Audio Research and Simaudio's big power amps directly driving the 1266 phi's.


Thanks!
It has gotten a bit out of context, because initially I was asking about the Pass HPA-1's (which I currently own) compatibility with the 1266 phi (which I do not own and still “on the fence” deciding).
And then I mentioned I may go out all assault on the headphone amp (unrelated to the 1266 phi).
So my amp discussion isn’t directly related to the 1266 phi (actually I own the LCD-4z right now, which I’m very happy with).


----------



## matthewhypolite

Hey All,

So i've previously said that i think the Phi CC now outclasses the utopia. Been wondering about the susvara and if to add it to my collection.
Any Phi CC owners here that have also heard the Susvara that can give some impressions and feedback?

Thanks,


----------



## joseph69

matthewhypolite said:


> Hey All,
> 
> So i've previously said that i think the Phi CC now outclasses the utopia. Been wondering about the susvara and if to add it to my collection.
> Any Phi CC owners here that have also heard the Susvara that can give some impressions and feedback?
> ...


I purchased an BNIB HE1KV2 +/- a month ago and I'm very impressed with them to say the least. This is making me very curious about the Susvara as well.


----------



## matthewhypolite

koven said:


> I had a similar revelation moving from Yggy A2 to DAVE.. didn't expect such a night and day difference, I was quite impressed.





joseph69 said:


> I purchased an BNIB HE1KV2 +/- a month ago and I'm very impressed with them to say the least. This is making me very curious about the Susvara as well.



I previously owned the Hifiman V2, i think the utopia and phi is alot better so ended up selling it.


----------



## joseph69

Too me, they're 2 different flavors and I enjoy listening to both very much which isn't the norm for me.
I know this sounds strange, but I don't like having too much of anything, and I feel like I've found my 2 favorite headphones to listen to (for now) and that's enough for me. I have other headphones that just aren't worth selling and I do enjoy from time to time which is why I've kept them.


----------



## ufospls2

I don't have experience with the Phi CC, but with the regular Phi here are some thoughts in comparison to the Susvara from a while ago. 

"I have had quite a bit more time with the Susvara now so I thought I would share some thoughts on it, as well as a more detailed comparison with the Abyss Phi. Again, lets get it out of the way that this headphone retails at the crazy price of $6000USD. Just a bit nuts.

The build quality is something I wanted to pay close attention to as with the Susvara being a Hifiman product, it is definitely something to worry about. As I said in my initial impressions, the build quality seems to be better than the HE1000V1, and similar to the HE1000V2, perhaps a tiny bit better. It is pretty much the same headphone as the V2 HE1000 in terms of outer materials and whatnot. At this asking price, I really would have liked to have seen some real leather, and just….more attention to the tiny details, if that makes sense. It all seems fairly well put together, certainly much better than the HE1000V1, but it just lacks that last few percent that would truly make it an amazing “Statement” product.

I’m going to include comparisons to the Abyss Phi below, as they are both competing in the top of the line arena and are what I have on hand to listen to 

Bass: The Abyss Phi has more quantity, and to my ears, better quality of bass. The Susvara sounds a bit rounder and is less hard hitting. However, neither headphone seems to lack definition when playing complex bass patterns. I listen to a lot of Electronica, so this is something I pay close attention to.

Mids: I prefer the Susvara’s mids most of the time vs. The Phi’s. However, it really does depend what you are listening to and what mood you are in. The Phi seem to have a little less presence in the mids and are not as warm as the Susvara. Compared to the LCD-4, the Susvara is less warm, and seems to have less presence in the mids. They seem to bridge the gap between the LCD-4 and Phi nicely. In terms of mids, the Susvara just “works” for me and my ears.

Treble: Apart from the occasional sibilance I hear from the Phi at higher volumes (which I think might be more my source gear than the headphones but lets not get into that right now) I do prefer the Phi to the Susvara in the treble. The Susvara is smoother sounding, less in your face, and more relaxed. The Phi has incredible definition in the upper region, and really lets you hear what is going on. You can still hear great treble detail from the Susvara, but it is less present, and more chilled out sounding for lack of a better expression.

Soundstage: I like a big soundstage, and the Phi provides that. It is bigger than the Susvara. However, the Susvara’s soundstage is bigger than the LCD-4’s and much bigger than the Utopias. I don’t feel I am missing out when I’m listening to the Hifimans, I just prefer that extra width coming from the Phi, thats all. The sound coming from the Susvara seems to envelope the ear more than the Phi, but its really hard to describe.

Transparency, and technicalities: The Abyss Phi is again the winner in my books. Both have great detail, digging into the recording and pulling out the tiny things you want to hear at this level. However, the Phi is the more dynamic headphone, and can absolutely punch your ears off. The Susvara is a bit less dynamic, but seems to be about equal in terms of transparency to the source.

At the end of the day, the Abyss Phi is still my favourite headphone. It is more in your face, and aggressive. It is a no compromises all or nothing headphone. However, with that being said, the Susvara is almost as good, but completely different. It is easier to listen to. If I just want to chill out and enjoy some tunes, I think I will be reaching for the Susvara rather than the Abyss. If I have some free time and can really just concentrate on listening, I will reach for the Abyss. Perhaps its not a case of worse or better between these two headphone, and more of a case of different.

I should mention that the Susvara is incredibly comfortable. Its weight isn’t too bad at 450g (similar to the Utopia) but it feels lighter than that. It certainly beats the Abyss in this area. I could wear the Susvara all day happily 

Any questions just ask "


----------



## matthewhypolite

ufospls2 said:


> I don't have experience with the Phi CC, but with the regular Phi here are some thoughts in comparison to the Susvara from a while ago.
> 
> "I have had quite a bit more time with the Susvara now so I thought I would share some thoughts on it, as well as a more detailed comparison with the Abyss Phi. Again, lets get it out of the way that this headphone retails at the crazy price of $6000USD. Just a bit nuts.
> 
> ...



Thanks man, very informative. 

It's a shame the build quality is still the same though, at 6k I'd expect more. But I guess it makes up for that in comfort. 

Essentially I don't think I need 3 flagship headphones on hand. Current I use the Utopia for general listening and the phi when I really wanna just wanna do nothing but take in some music. 

Was considering replacing the Utopia with the susvara in that regard. What are your thoughts there? Also based on your above impressions I know my abyss isn't going anywhere 

Having owned the v1 v2 he1000 I am familiar with the relaxed sound you are referring to. The Utopia and abyss aren't that, so maybe coupling abyss with susvara may be better than utopia. 

Anyways, appriciate your further thoughts. 

Thanks


----------



## ufospls2

matthewhypolite said:


> Thanks man, very informative.
> 
> It's a shame the build quality is still the same though, at 6k I'd expect more. But I guess it makes up for that in comfort.
> 
> ...



I used to own the Utopia  The Susvara floats my boat more than the Utopia. The Susvara is a much better headphone than the HE1000V2. I listened to both back to back, and was surprised at the difference in transparency and detail the Susvara brought to the table. It makes for a great complement to the Abyss, in that it is a bit easier to listen too, and is comfier


----------



## jlbrach

matthewhypolite said:


> Thanks man, very informative.
> 
> It's a shame the build quality is still the same though, at 6k I'd expect more. But I guess it makes up for that in comfort.
> 
> ...



I am crazy enough to own both the phi and the susvara and they are indeed a wonderful pairing but be forewarned the susvara do need a serious external amp if you are using the dave....


----------



## matthewhypolite

jlbrach said:


> I am crazy enough to own both the phi and the susvara and they are indeed a wonderful pairing but be forewarned the susvara do need a serious external amp if you are using the dave....



I have the WA33 EE with upgraded tubes. 

Matched with yggy v2 for now, but I intend to get the msb Discrete or the Dave.


----------



## llamaluv (Dec 17, 2018)

These are my super-schematic, over-simplified thoughts, being a current owner of the Susvara and having owned the Phi w/ CC pads until just a couple months ago:

Susvara: Smoother
Phi: More lively
Phi: More dynamic
Phi: More of a crowd-pleaser

Phi: Moar soundstage
Susvara: Better imaging (my opinion)

Susvara: More neutral in the lower frequencies; smoother transition from the bass to the mids
Susvara: No issues with fit affecting tonality, soundstage, and imaging (IMO/experience)

Susvara: Amp synergy even more critical than with the Phi

Resolution: A toss-up, IMO


----------



## matthewhypolite

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Currently leaning towards putting Utopia up for sale and grabbing the Susvara.


----------



## fredfung28

Actually, Riviera AIC10 is also a very good choice. You could read the review right here http://gpoint-audio.com/new-riviera...ted-amplifier-test-by-fidelio-on-musicalhead/ 
I am using it with ABYSS 1266 phi which I think it is very nice with the tube of gold lion B749 NOS.. extremely musical and without uncomfortable sibilance


----------



## joseph69

fredfung28 said:


> "extremely musical and without uncomfortable sibilance"


This is where I found that the Abyss Phi really excelled. Besides the bass, no matter how loud the volume, they showed no signs of being sibilant at all. This was with both, the GS-X Mk2 & WA33.


----------



## fredfung28

joseph69 said:


> This is where I found that the Abyss Phi really excelled. Besides the bass, no matter how loud the volume, they showed no signs of being sibilant at all. This was with both, the GS-X Mk2 & WA33.


I used Gsx in the past but sibilance problem occur often and sound is too tough... riviera aic10 totally changed the sound quality to a very high level.

If Gsx is musical, I think you should try aic10 if that’s possible. That’s another stuff and not even close. Gsx has the power and clarity but aic10 adds a lot more. Of course price is a lot different as well. Gsx is very good in that price range in my view.

And also it might be the source we used is different, I’m using emmlabs dac2x v2 and memory player 64-16


----------



## joseph69

fredfung28 said:


> I used Gsx in the past but sibilance problem occur often and sound is too tough... riviera aic10 totally changed the sound quality to a very high level.
> 
> If Gsx is musical, I think you should try aic10 if that’s possible. That’s another stuff and not even close. Gsx has the power and clarity but aic10 adds a lot more. Of course price is a lot different as well. Gsx is very good in that price range in my view.
> 
> And also it might be the source we used is different, I’m using emmlabs dac2x v2 and memory player 64-16


I don't own the Abyss Phi, I borrowed it from The Cable Company. I was just stating that I Neve heard any sibilance at all out of either, the GS-X or WA33. I don't believe I'd be reaching for the Abyss Phi enough to justify owning them after demoing. That's just the way I feel. I'm not saying they weren't excellent sounding headphones at all.


----------



## matthewhypolite

joseph69 said:


> I don't own the Abyss Phi, I borrowed it from The Cable Company. I was just stating that I Neve heard any sibilance at all out of either, the GS-X or WA33. I don't believe I'd be reaching for the Abyss Phi enough to justify owning them after demoing. That's just the way I feel. I'm not saying they weren't excellent sounding headphones at all.


What would you reach for?


----------



## joseph69

matthewhypolite said:


> What would you reach for?


The Utopia & HE1000V2 which I've recently purchased BNIB at a steal. I'm finding it to be a very enjoyable headphone for me. I find myself alternating between these two headphones like I've never done with any other headphones. In the past I usually favored one headphone while the other/s sat in the drawer...this is definitely not the case with these two, they both get equal head time.


----------



## matthewhypolite

joseph69 said:


> The Utopia & HE1000V2 which I've recently purchased BNIB at a steal. I'm finding it to be a very enjoyable headphone for me. I find myself alternating between these two headphones like I've never done with any other headphones. In the past I usually favored one headphone while the other/s sat in the drawer...this is definitely not the case with these two, they both get equal head time.



Utopia used to get similar head time as my abyss. But when I got the abyss phi with cc pads on WA33 EE with nos tubes, the Utopia didn't scale as well. And ended up not getting much head time at all. Which is why I've out my utopia up for sale. I'll grab susvara.


----------



## joseph69

matthewhypolite said:


> Utopia used to get similar head time as my abyss. But when I got the abyss phi with cc pads on WA33 EE with nos tubes, the Utopia didn't scale as well. And ended up not getting much head time at all. Which is why I've out my utopia up for sale. I'll grab susvara.


I'd seen your Utopia F/S and have read that you were interested in the Susvara, so I figured this was your next move. 

Being I just received my HE1KV2 not too long ago and I'm really enjoying them very much I'd like to stay right where I am as far as moving on to try the SE or Susvara. In time I will try both, though. Keep us posted on the Susvara.


----------



## matthewhypolite

joseph69 said:


> I'd seen your Utopia F/S and have read that you were interested in the Susvara, so I figured this was your next move.
> 
> Being I just received my HE1KV2 not too long ago and I'm really enjoying them very much I'd like to stay right where I am as far as moving on to try the SE or Susvara. In time I will try both, though. Keep us posted on the Susvara.




Ive owned the HEK v1 and v2, so I'll let you know how the susvara compares.


----------



## drew911d

EndGameSearch said:


> I sold my GS-X and have a Woo WA5 LE being delivered tomorrow.  In the interim I'm listening to Phi's direct from BluDave.  More power would be nice, but it is not a necessity and the Phi does not fall on it's face as you stated.  It's great to run the numbers but it's still a guide, not an absolute.  The final outcome is heavily influenced by the demands of the music and the volume which you are playing.



Did you do a review of the WA5 LE?  Curious to hear your thoughts.  I recently heard one with upgraded tubes driven from a Yggy using my Phi and thought it was the best amp I've heard to date, easily driving the Phi with no sense of struggling.  There are still many I have yet to hear, like the Formula S, Headtrip, and more.


----------



## Zhanming057

drew911d said:


> Did you do a review of the WA5 LE?  Curious to hear your thoughts.  I recently heard one with upgraded tubes driven from a Yggy using my Phi and thought it was the best amp I've heard to date, easily driving the Phi with no sense of struggling.  There are still many I have yet to hear, like the Formula S, Headtrip, and more.



I have the 1st gen WA5 and I think that it's a pretty good choice for the 1266 phi's, depending on how much you like the laid back presentation. For me the 300b solution is ultimately a little soft for the 1266 phi's, and in particular the WA5 which is pretty euphoric and even less energetic than the Manley 300b or Cayin HA300. The Airtight 300b is IMO the reference-level 300b design, and with that benchmark the WA5 comes just a tiny bit short on staging and dynamics. The Airtight needs a preamp and is also more expensive, though.

If you enjoy the euphoria and smoothness and can find one at a good price, it's a great choice. The Formula S is ultimately a more energetic amp although not more resolving than the WA5. 845 amps typically have better density than 300b's but your choices are more limited on that end.


----------



## ufospls2

Hey guys. I don't have a pair of AB-1266 currently, but I remember them well having owned both the original and Phi (not the CC though.) I currently have the Diana Phi and i urge you to go listen to the album I have linked below if you have 45 minutes of free time. If you like the youtube sample, go download it in high quality. It is worth it. It is a masterclass in electronica productions values. Tons of Micro detail, soul shaking bass, and some seriously great atmosphere on some of the tracks. It is really well done album in my opinion and really shows off the Abyss's strengths. Hope some of you enjoy it


----------



## cradon

@ufospls2 Thanks for sharing, that was a fun listen!


----------



## MacedonianHero

joseph69 said:


> I don't own the Abyss Phi, I borrowed it from The Cable Company. I was just stating that I Neve heard any sibilance at all out of either, the GS-X or WA33. I don't believe I'd be reaching for the Abyss Phi enough to justify owning them after demoing. That's just the way I feel. I'm not saying they weren't excellent sounding headphones at all.



Really depends on your source (including recordings) here. The GS_X M2 measures dead flat and is a microscope on what you're feeding it.


----------



## Beolab (Dec 30, 2018)

ufospls2 said:


> Hey guys. I don't have a pair of AB-1266 currently, but I remember them well having owned both the original and Phi (not the CC though.) I currently have the Diana Phi and i urge you to go listen to the album I have linked below if you have 45 minutes of free time. If you like the youtube sample, go download it in high quality. It is worth it. It is a masterclass in electronica productions values. Tons of Micro detail, soul shaking bass, and some seriously great atmosphere on some of the tracks. It is really well done album in my opinion and really shows off the Abyss's strengths. Hope some of you enjoy it




Great sharing!

Here is another electro 3D recording made for Abyss : 

How do like your new Diana Phi vs your previously Abyss Phi besides comfort and weight ?


----------



## joseph69

MacedonianHero said:


> Really depends on your source (including recordings) here. The GS_X M2 measures dead flat and is a microscope on what you're feeding it.


Agreed.
Although, I did prefer the utopia over the 1266 right now. I say right now because after sending back the 1266 I'd already made reservations to borrow them again in the future.


----------



## ufospls2

Beolab said:


> Great sharing!
> 
> Here is another electro 3D recording made for Abyss :
> 
> How do like your new Diana Phi vs your previously Abyss Phi besides comfort and weight ?




Hey Frederik! Great to see you post, had wondered where you had disappeared to! I really like the Diana Phi. You miss a bit soundstage and imaging vs. the AB-1266 Phi, but it is minimal. I shared some extensive thoughts below

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/abyss-headphones-diana.22827/reviews

Hope you are well


----------



## tunes

I am currently looking to upgrade from HIFIMAN HEKse to one of several possibilities:

I very much like the open 3D sound stage of the HIFIMAN paired with the Chord DAVE direct. Despite the need for external amps in the chain and some loss of transparency I am wondering between the Stax SR 009s with Carbon amp and the Abyss PHI with a quality SS amp, which of the two would have the best sound stage and rendering of micro detail?  

I haven’t heard the Empyrean yet and also wonder how it compares to the above two?



ufospls2 said:


> Hey Frederik! Great to see you post, had wondered where you had disappeared to! I really like the Diana Phi. You miss a bit soundstage and imaging vs. the AB-1266 Phi, but it is minimal. I shared some extensive thoughts below
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/abyss-headphones-


----------



## GU1DO

I have the AB-1266 (1st model) , does the upgrade include the Phi & CC upgrades also ?

https://abyss-headphones.com/products/phionly


----------



## ufospls2

GU1DO said:


> I have the AB-1266 (1st model) , does the upgrade include the Phi & CC upgrades also ?
> 
> https://abyss-headphones.com/products/phionly



That upgrade is from the original drivers to the Phi drivers only as far as I know. It does not include the CC pads, or CC coating.


----------



## mulder01

Phi drivers only my friend


----------



## GU1DO

Thanks


----------



## weasel1979

The other day I wrote this in another thread. (The question was: Which headphone sounds most realistically. Then the Stax mafia took over the thread.) Thought this might be of interested to some on here, too.: 

"To my ears the Stax sound is very beautifull, maybe the most beautiful. But it is not the most realistic, as in real life, like with instruments present. The Stax sound is airy, flowting, transparant. A real drumkit or a trumpet is not, at all. Most or many instruments in real life sound heavy, thick, meaty, hard. They hurt a little bit, if you know what i mean. They cut through air. Stax is more layed back ( which I love). Real instrumets have a sound with a lot of body. Cuz many instruments have an actual body.
So the *most realistic*, that is, meaty and heavy, sound comes from the Abyss headphones, in my opinion. They have a certain weight to ther sound. Plus, the stage is very realistic, kind of 3d like. Very dynamic, too. In reality, instruments sound of course much more dynamic, but for a headphone, the Abyss comes closest. (1266 or 1266-Phi). Just my opinion man"


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## GU1DO (Jan 20, 2019)

Hi every one ,,
i contacted jps at this email info@Abyss-Headphones.com to upgrade my Abyss to the Phi version but i got no response at all
is there any other then this email for upgrade requests ?


----------



## matthewhypolite

GU1DO said:


> Hi every one ,,
> i contacted jps at this email info@Abyss-Headphones.com to upgrade my Abyss to the Phi version but i got no response at all
> is there any other then this email for upgrade requests ?



Try send Joe a PM. 

Also, last night I put up a short review of phi and susvara :

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/totl-headphones-comparison.856079/page-8#post-14728238


----------



## GU1DO

matthewhypolite said:


> Try send Joe a PM.
> 
> Also, last night I put up a short review of phi and susvara :
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/totl-headphones-comparison.856079/page-8#post-14728238


Can you link his profile if you can,
Now reading your review , am so excited to know the results at the end.
Thanks


----------



## matthewhypolite

GU1DO said:


> Can you link his profile if you can,
> Now reading your review , am so excited to know the results at the end.
> Thanks


https://www.head-fi.org/members/joe-skubinski.275351/

Here you go


----------



## GU1DO

matthewhypolite said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/members/joe-skubinski.275351/
> 
> Here you go


Thanks , that was really helpful , although waiting time is very long , cant wait to upgrade , for the mean time i will try the CC pads.


----------



## mulder01

How long?


----------



## GU1DO

9+ months


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## matthewhypolite

GU1DO said:


> 9+ months


Ouch, have you considered selling  and just buying a cc? That would be a faster turn around


----------



## GU1DO

matthewhypolite said:


> Ouch, have you considered selling  and just buying a cc? That would be a faster turn around


that's an idea didn't cross my mind , problem is that my pair is mint new , i used it for 2 weeks only so with selling i will loose cash for sure , hopefully i can wait


----------



## matthewhypolite

GU1DO said:


> that's an idea didn't cross my mind , problem is that my pair is mint new , i used it for 2 weeks only so with selling i will loose cash for sure , hopefully i can wait



If you dont midn me asking, why did you not go straight phi then?


----------



## GU1DO

matthewhypolite said:


> If you dont midn me asking, why did you not go straight phi then?


a really good price from a local store, way cheaper than the retail price , it was worth the upgrade path .


----------



## weasel1979 (Jan 22, 2019)

GU1DO said:


> 9+ months



So are you saying JPS-Labs told you it takes 9 months for the update? That can't be right, can it?


----------



## GU1DO

weasel1979 said:


> So are you saying JPS-Labs told you it takes 9 months for the update? That can't be right, can it?


Yes here is the msg i got from JPS-Labs,  and i replied with yes  :

( We have a waiting list for Phi upgrades about 9+ months long. If you wish, we can place your name on the list and contact you when a set of drivers is available.)


----------



## ra990

They have to find a daddy abyss and a mommy abyss, then 9 months later...


----------



## Zhanming057

GU1DO said:


> Yes here is the msg i got from JPS-Labs,  and i replied with yes  :
> 
> ( We have a waiting list for Phi upgrades about 9+ months long. If you wish, we can place your name on the list and contact you when a set of drivers is available.)



With an upgrade price of $1,500 and street pricing of the Phi version used at less than $4,000, I think you'd come out on top selling the old pair regardless of how long the waitlist is.


----------



## matthewhypolite

ra990 said:


> They have to find a daddy abyss and a mommy abyss, then 9 months later...


Rofl!!!


----------



## jlbrach

I find it hard to believe that it could possibly take 9 months to get a driver replacement.....so are you telling me that if my Phi was to have a driver issue it would take me 9 months to replace it?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

We only produce so many 1266 Phi drivers per month with new headphones taking precedent over upgrades with few if any driver sets remaining each batch. They have for the most part always been made to order a few weeks out.


----------



## mulder01

Guido, nothing wrong with the OG version of the 1266 anyways.  
By all means, put your name down and send it off when it's your turn, but if you own any pair of 1266 - original/ phi/ phi cc, you're still gonna have a smile on your dial.  It's just 3 slightly different versions of f---ing excellent.  I have had the original and phi side by side and both are outstanding.
Or if you're impatient and have to have the latest and greatest right now regardless of cost, then as other people said, sell and buy new.  Then you get the new pads and CC coating as well, which you do not get with the phi driver upgrade.


----------



## GU1DO

mulder01 said:


> Guido, nothing wrong with the OG version of the 1266 anyways.
> By all means, put your name down and send it off when it's your turn, but if you own any pair of 1266 - original/ phi/ phi cc, you're still gonna have a smile on your dial.  It's just 3 slightly different versions of f---ing excellent.  I have had the original and phi side by side and both are outstanding.
> Or if you're impatient and have to have the latest and greatest right now regardless of cost, then as other people said, sell and buy new.  Then you get the new pads and CC coating as well, which you do not get with the phi driver upgrade.


Thanks for your comforting post , i totally agree with you , the Abyss is a real final answer worthy any investment ,

I really like them and lately the are my main headphone  although the HE1000SE is also new to me and i bought it before 2 months but the Abyss is so addictive and have sound imaging extend out of my head.

Hopefully the phi will be as good as the old version, from reading i see that the phi have thinner bass and lower treble , that i think is just perfect in the original Abyss, at least with my setup which is tad warm.

hmm i should buy both and get done with it


----------



## matthewhypolite

GU1DO said:


> Thanks for your comforting post , i totally agree with you , the Abyss is a real final answer worthy any investment ,
> 
> I really like them and lately the are my main headphone  although the HE1000SE is also new to me and i bought it before 2 months but the Abyss is so addictive and have sound imaging extend out of my head.
> 
> ...



I find the Phi better than the OG in every way including bass and treble. See me TOTL review in my sig for more insight, but imo nothing to hope about, it's better


----------



## dstubked

does anyone knows where to get an ultra short audeze LCD to Abyss cable adaptor?


----------



## FLTWS (Jan 25, 2019)

I bought the Phi because I felt the the upper midrange into the highs was improved over the original which I did not buy because of that. As far as bass, depending on what position I rotate the ear pad to I can make tight and very defined bass or more full sounding, warmer, bass with a sense of more air pressure or more air being moved behind the lowest notes, and "maybe" just a minuscule loss of clarity in those bottom notes. Tuning by rotation is a big plus as far as I'm concerned and allows me to find a sweet spot to my liking.

The CC pads have an effect as well because they conform to the shape of my head and upper jaw area better. I have both pads as I bought my Phi before the CC was introduced and added them about 6 months later. The CC pads also seal much more effectively against the driver housing then the original did which I had to carefully re-seat when changing rotation positions to insure no gapping .I prefer the CC pads but I can see how others might prefer the original pads.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

I'm curious, in what direction are you rotating the new CC pads to increase the bass air pressure?  Are you using them with the wider part toward the back of your ears or rotated differently?


----------



## FLTWS (Jan 25, 2019)

Its not about direction. Everybody's head and jaw line shape are different, If I rotate mine so that the ear pads are very slightly tight above the ear and a slight gap (or lease amount of pressure) below the ear, I get bigger bass but lose a small amount of  clarity. If I adjust to even out the pressure all the way around I get the most detailed bass. I have to fully extend the headband arms just to get them on at all. My head is not yours so it may be meaningless in your case. You have to experiment.


----------



## wasupdog

dstubked said:


> does anyone knows where to get an ultra short audeze LCD to Abyss cable adaptor?



affinitycables on fleabay sells them on the usa fleabay site.  funny thing is that they're based out of Singapore so they should be local to you.


----------



## dstubked

wasupdog said:


> affinitycables on fleabay sells them on the usa fleabay site.  funny thing is that they're based out of Singapore so they should be local to you.



Great thanks! Have already reached out to them and you are right, they do have it.


----------



## spotforscott

FLTWS said:


> Its not about direction. Everybody's head and jaw line shape are different, If I rotate mine so that the ear pads are very slightly tight above the ear and a slight gap (or lease amount of pressure) below the ear, I get bigger bass but lose a small amount of  clarity. If I adjust to even out the pressure all the way around I get the most detailed bass. I have to fully extend the headband arms just to get them on at all. My head is not yours so it may be meaningless in your case. You have to experiment.



Even though I have experimented quite a bit, I never tried the open below placement for some reason. I have now and all I can say is thanks! Really enjoying what I am now hearing


----------



## FLTWS

In my case I don't know that it's an actual visual opening on the bottom but more like the clamping pressure is light enough to allow a little air to pass in or out and the bass just seems to bloom up a little.


----------



## ufospls2

Heres a great tune for hanging out on a Saturday morning  Should work well with the Phi CC, big bass! Currently enjoying it on the Diana Phi.


----------



## lambdastorm

FLTWS said:


> Its not about direction. Everybody's head and jaw line shape are different, If I rotate mine so that the ear pads are very slightly tight above the ear and a slight gap (or lease amount of pressure) below the ear, I get bigger bass but lose a small amount of  clarity. If I adjust to even out the pressure all the way around I get the most detailed bass. I have to fully extend the headband arms just to get them on at all. My head is not yours so it may be meaningless in your case. You have to experiment.


To me Abyss has always been a port-your-own-sub kind of headphone. The bass quality as well as quantity depends heavily on fit. Too wide a gap and you'll get too much mid-bass without sub-bass, too narrow a gap and you'll end up with a very flat, albeit boring bass reponse. The way it works is exactly like tuning a subwoofer: Finding the right balance can be tricky.


----------



## iledi

Hello, I just ordered my 1266 to replace my LCD3. I want to modify my Audeze cable to use in 1266. Can any one tell me,

1. The mxlr 3p pin assignment.
2. Other than Furutech FT-608mF any other quanity mxlr plug recommend?

Thank you very much


----------



## lambdastorm

iledi said:


> Hello, I just ordered my 1266 to replace my LCD3. I want to modify my Audeze cable to use in 1266. Can any one tell me,
> 
> 1. The mxlr 3p pin assignment.
> 2. Other than Furutech FT-608mF any other quanity mxlr plug recommend?
> ...


Pin III is positive, Pin I's negative. And Furutech's pretty much the best you can find for mini XLRs. Use them in conjunction with Cardas/WBT solder, magic will happen.


----------



## iledi

lambdastorm said:


> Pin III is positive, Pin I's negative. And Furutech's pretty much the best you can find for mini XLRs. Use them in conjunction with Cardas/WBT solder, magic will happen.




Thank you very much!


----------



## GU1DO

lambdastorm said:


> Pin III is positive, Pin I's negative. And Furutech's pretty much the best you can find for mini XLRs. Use them in conjunction with Cardas/WBT solder, magic will happen.


How do you connect your abyss to the Audio-GD Precision 3S ?


----------



## lambdastorm

GU1DO said:


> How do you connect your abyss to the Audio-GD Precision 3S ?


Audio GD has a speaker post to headphone adapter for $50. You can order them with any of their amps or dacs.


----------



## Thenewguy007

lambdastorm said:


> Audio GD has a speaker post to headphone adapter for $50. You can order them with any of their amps or dacs.



Any links to it?
There is nothing on their webpage.


----------



## lambdastorm

Thenewguy007 said:


> Any links to it?
> There is nothing on their webpage.


http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/amp/Precision3/Precision3EN.htm
Scroll down the page and you'll see it.


----------



## tunes

scolaiw said:


> _Welcome to the official *JPS Labs: Abyss AB-1266 Appreciation & Impressions Thread*! In here you will find all things Abyss. Feel free to post your own impressions of the Abyss as well as discuss anything you like (as long as it is at least slightly related to the Abyss). To begin with, my very own impressions of the Abyss after the first few times I heard them..._
> 
> *Introduction*
> 
> ...


So after an excellent review for the next headphone system upgrade with the DAVE as the DAC driving either the Abyss PHI with external amp combo or the STAX SR009 with amp, which one is the best all around with the most holographic sound field and detail retrieval?


----------



## bearwarrior

tunes said:


> So after an excellent review for the next headphone system upgrade with the DAVE as the DAC driving either the Abyss PHI with external amp combo or the STAX SR009 with amp, which one is the best all around with the most holographic sound field and detail retrieval?



As an owner of both, I would describe Abyss Phi as powerful and emotional and 009 as delicate and musical. Both of them has holographic sound field and great detail retrieval.


----------



## tunes

GU1DO said:


> Thanks for your comforting post , i totally agree with you , the Abyss is a real final answer worthy any investment ,
> 
> I really like them and lately the are my main headphone  although the HE1000SE is also new to me and i bought it before 2 months but the Abyss is so addictive and have sound imaging extend out of my head.
> 
> ...


What amplifier is needed to get the best sound from the Abyss with the DAVE DAC? So now we’re talking 5k plus xk?????
If you had to choose either STAX SR009 plus best amp pairing or Abyss PHI with best amp pairing, which of the two would you choose for your endgame listening experience.   I listen more to female vocals, jazz and rock than classical music.


----------



## GU1DO

tunes said:


> What amplifier is needed to get the best sound from the Abyss with the DAVE DAC? So now we’re talking 5k plus xk?????
> If you had to choose either STAX SR009 plus best amp pairing or Abyss PHI with best amp pairing, which of the two would you choose for your endgame listening experience.   I listen more to female vocals, jazz and rock than classical music.


oh you will not believe it , i am enjoying my Abyss with the Audio-GD C2 more than the Formula S by a huge margin , i think  Audio-GD Master 9 or something similar with good interconnect cables would be more than enough , i never heard the 009 but heard other STAX and they sound bass limited to me and more suitable with classical music , if vocals and Jazz is your main music i think tonally Abyss is the way to go, 

BTW i never think of an endgame as one pair of headphones , for Rock i use my HD660/650 and they sound amazing , for classical i think the HE1000SE is the best, for EDM and crazy bass the TH-900 is very good, and so on .


----------



## Zhanming057

tunes said:


> What amplifier is needed to get the best sound from the Abyss with the DAVE DAC? So now we’re talking 5k plus xk?????
> If you had to choose either STAX SR009 plus best amp pairing or Abyss PHI with best amp pairing, which of the two would you choose for your endgame listening experience.   I listen more to female vocals, jazz and rock than classical music.



- Female vocals: probably slightly smoother on the 009 depending on your system, the 1266 phi's midrange can get grainy on cheaper sources and isn't quite electrostatic-smooth on the best day.
- Jazz: same as above, but 1266 phi's have better imaging and you can pair them with strong tube amps to emphasize the midrange . 
- Rock: definitely the Abyss, the 009's bass just doesn't have the same level of quality. 

A "best" amp pairing for the Abyss in my books is something like the Viva 845 or a Nagra Classic INT, though, and that's a much bigger investment than a BHSE/KGHSSV carbon.


----------



## simorag

GU1DO said:


> oh you will not believe it , i am enjoying my Abyss with the Audio-GD C2 more than the Formula S by a huge margin



Wow, as a Formula S (+ Powerman) owner, and a previous Audio GD (NOS 11) owner I am very interested in this comment 

Could you please elaborate a bit more about how the 450USD AGD C2 betters the 3500USD Formula S in combination with the Abyss Phi in your system? 

Thanks for your time!​


----------



## GU1DO

simorag said:


> Wow, as a Formula S (+ Powerman) owner, and a previous Audio GD (NOS 11) owner I am very interested in this comment
> 
> Could you please elaborate a bit more about how the 450USD AGD C2 betters the 3500USD Formula S in combination with the Abyss Phi in your system?
> 
> Thanks for your time!​


I don't like listening to music with high volume , and the Formula S sound its best with high volume , what i got with the C2 is (little brighter tone) , really good imaging, medium sound stage, thick bass , and the most important depth and 3D like sound ( like tube amps) , all that with low volume ,

The problem with the AudioGD in general that it lack the micro details & transparency , i know i am lacking that but most of my listening time is for pure relaxed enjoyment and not critical listening , when i crave for pure transparency , i listen to the  the Formula S , but i never listen to it more than 30min.

This why i was asking *lambdastorm* about his setup , he got my attention because he is using mid-fi speaker amp very close to my amp (Audio-GD Precision 3S) , now a days i am looking to the Master 9 but to be honest i dont feel the need or the urge to upgrade any soon, i am experimenting with other things , like vintage dacs , COAX vs. USB and stuff like this , just for fun.


----------



## FLTWS (Jan 29, 2019)

I don't listen at high volumes either, but I don't like anything even a little bright to my ears. Every recording comes with a different recorded level. I try to find the sweet spot between washed out or veiled sounding and the point at which it just starts to get edgy; where the sound opens up and is as transparent sounding as possible without being fatiguing. This varies from one recording to the next. My S + Powerman sounds just fine, so do most of my other HP amps. Everybody has different levels of expectation and different preferences, its should be about what you think about the sound of your equipment choices and accepting the fact that there can never be one "best" answer for all.


----------



## MaggotBrain

tunes said:


> What amplifier is needed to get the best sound from the Abyss with the DAVE DAC? So now we’re talking 5k plus xk?????
> If you had to choose either STAX SR009 plus best amp pairing or Abyss PHI with best amp pairing, which of the two would you choose for your endgame listening experience.   I listen more to female vocals, jazz and rock than classical music.




I’ve use to own the Stax SR009 in addition to the Abyss non Phi 1266- now I have just the Abyss. I found that there was little I would prefer the Stax (other than weight, but I got used to the Abyss over time). When you add a m scaler to the Dave, it does tame the treble brightness (and maybe having the Phi helps as well). I also can add that the Abyss shines best when you use a Master 9 in addition to the Dave, at least for any uptempo music - it adds meat to the bare bones presentation. So if you were debating whether to spend big money on an amp or spreading it around to augment your system, personally I would get the master 9 and maybe save for an m scaler to bring the best out of the Dave.


----------



## lambdastorm

MaggotBrain said:


> I’ve use to own the Stax SR009 in addition to the Abyss non Phi 1266- now I have just the Abyss. I found that there was little I would prefer the Stax (other than weight, but I got used to the Abyss over time). en you add a m scaler to the Dave, it does tame the treble brightness (and maybe having the Phi helps as well). I also can a
> dd that the Abyss shines best when you use a Master 9 in addition to the Dave, at least for any uptempo music - it adds meat to the bare bones presentation. So if you were debating whether to spend big money on an amp or spreadinjjjg it around to augment your system, personally I wjjbbghhhhhhonuld get the master 9 and maybe save for an m scaler to bring the best out of the Dave.


Can chime in. I’m one of the few who prefer the original over Phi. The original sounds more fun to me despite the Phi having better resolution and PRAT. As for AUDIOGD I’ve always wanted to get a Master9 but for now its a little out of my budget. Mirroring what Gu1Do said, they make awesome gears but are a little on the bright side. Pair them with warm sources & bam. Magiic!


----------



## mulder01

tunes said:


> What amplifier is needed to get the best sound from the Abyss with the DAVE DAC? So now we’re talking 5k plus xk?????
> If you had to choose either STAX SR009 plus best amp pairing or Abyss PHI with best amp pairing, which of the two would you choose for your endgame listening experience.   I listen more to female vocals, jazz and rock than classical music.



Spend whatever you like!  More money does not equal more subjective enjoyment.

Some users also use the Abyss straight out of the Dave


----------



## Alarickc

Wow. Just wow. I'm having a hard time expressing myself here without expletives. I've been listening to my brand new pair of Abyss 1266 Phi CCs since I got them at the beginning of January and they continue to impress me more and more. What has struck me more than anything else about these cans is their sheer dynamism, the amount of air they can throw at you throughout the frequency range is insane. Recorded music punches with the weight of live acoustic sound, it's spooky. 

I have quite a different setup to most, and I think it's because of how much I prefer vinyl for serious listening. First, I'd not recommend using a vinyl setup with headphones unless like me you're insensitive to both moderate surface noise and pitch variation. That said, I love how much more play a vinyl setup gives you around tweaking the sound of the overall system. It's allowed me to pair the 1266 Phi CCs with a GS-X mk2 and an MX-VYNL phono-pre, two amps that are both brutally transparent and dynamic. That pairing by themselves with other neutral gear leaves a system that's has great detail and punch, but a slightly sucked out middle that leaves the whole presentation a bit bloomy and tizzy sounding. That brings in the SoundSmith Aida Mk2 cartridge, another insanely detailed and punchy component, but a very mid-centric one. Added to my setup, the Aida pushed the midrange up and has made for a setup that I adore, but I think would be rather segmenting for others. The entire frequency response is now even, but also aggressive, with everything jumping at you even at low volume. I find its really engaging and that it holds my interest for hours, but I think others could find it fatiguing. I'm really glad that reading all of your guys' thoughts on the 1266s convinced me to give them a shot. I remember when these and the other $4k+ flagships launched and thinking that all of them where overpriced nonsense, the 1266s most of all. Even when I was ordering my new setup in December I still though I was being crazy spending this much on everything, but as each piece came in they have won me over on their value, the Abyss' most of all. These are, in my opinion, the perfect planar-magnetic headphones. Everything else feels like a compromise in some way now.


----------



## jlbrach

givn what pay for loudspeakers and all components including cables and other accessories I maintain that TOTL HP's are one of the bargains in the audiophile world


----------



## ufospls2

Alarickc said:


> Wow. Just wow. I'm having a hard time expressing myself here without expletives. I've been listening to my brand new pair of Abyss 1266 Phi CCs since I got them at the beginning of January and they continue to impress me more and more. What has struck me more than anything else about these cans is their sheer dynamism, the amount of air they can throw at you throughout the frequency range is insane. Recorded music punches with the weight of live acoustic sound, it's spooky.
> 
> I have quite a different setup to most, and I think it's because of how much I prefer vinyl for serious listening. First, I'd not recommend using a vinyl setup with headphones unless like me you're insensitive to both moderate surface noise and pitch variation. That said, I love how much more play a vinyl setup gives you around tweaking the sound of the overall system. It's allowed me to pair the 1266 Phi CCs with a GS-X mk2 and an MX-VYNL phono-pre, two amps that are both brutally transparent and dynamic. That pairing by themselves with other neutral gear leaves a system that's has great detail and punch, but a slightly sucked out middle that leaves the whole presentation a bit bloomy and tizzy sounding. That brings in the SoundSmith Aida Mk2 cartridge, another insanely detailed and punchy component, but a very mid-centric one. Added to my setup, the Aida pushed the midrange up and has made for a setup that I adore, but I think would be rather segmenting for others. The entire frequency response is now even, but also aggressive, with everything jumping at you even at low volume. I find its really engaging and that it holds my interest for hours, but I think others could find it fatiguing. I'm really glad that reading all of your guys' thoughts on the 1266s convinced me to give them a shot. I remember when these and the other $4k+ flagships launched and thinking that all of them where overpriced nonsense, the 1266s most of all. Even when I was ordering my new setup in December I still though I was being crazy spending this much on everything, but as each piece came in they have won me over on their value, the Abyss' most of all. These are, in my opinion, the perfect planar-magnetic headphones. Everything else feels like a compromise in some way now.



Sounds like a fantastic system mate. Glad to hear you are loving them!


----------



## simorag (Jan 30, 2019)

GU1DO said:


> I don't like listening to music with high volume , and the Formula S sound its best with high volume , what i got with the C2 is (little brighter tone) , really good imaging, medium sound stage, thick bass , and the most important depth and 3D like sound ( like tube amps) , all that with low volume ,
> 
> The problem with the AudioGD in general that it lack the micro details & transparency , i know i am lacking that but most of my listening time is for pure relaxed enjoyment and not critical listening , when i crave for pure transparency , i listen to the the Formula S , but i never listen to it more than 30min.



I listen to classical music most of the time, and transparency is a huge part of the enjoyment for me because its tightly related to the "I am there" illusion I seek from music reproduction. Timbre naturalness and sound(head)stage size are crucial as well.
Also, I like to listen at pretty loud volume (I know, not good for my ears), matching the loudness of a live concert.

I believe this is the typical YMMV situation where listening habits, music tastes and what we look for from our listening experience makes the difference about what gear works best for us.

With DAVE+M Scaler directly driving the Abyss Phi I sometimes feel a bit congested presentation (especially with low level recordings), and the additional grunt of the Formula S provides more ease and dynamics impact, with a minimal trade-off in transparency over the DAVE. The soundstage further opens and the bass / sub bass reaches even lower and gains some bloom.

For the records, when I used the Formula S without the Powerman felt the presentation noticeably drier and flatter.
A similar feeling to what I get when using the amp in low gain mode, and this is why I always use it in high mode with the Abyss.



mulder01 said:


> Some users also use the Abyss straight out of the Dave



Yes, when listening to low volume, or when listening to music like jazz, vocals, chamber etc. I still prefer the DAVE direct with respect to the DAVE + Formula S. The 3D imaging and spooky transparency of the DAVE (+ M Scaler) provides many goosebumps moments per track 



FLTWS said:


> I don't listen at high volumes either, but I don't like anything even a little bright to my ears





MaggotBrain said:


> When you add a m scaler to the Dave, it does tame the treble brightness (and maybe having the Phi helps as well)



I feel the same, in that I am extremely sensitive to brightness as well, and to sibilance in particular, and the M Scaler (among other many significant improvements) provided a more natural treble presentation. That said, the Abyss Phi is still slightly on the bright side of neutral IMO.


----------



## tunes

Zhanming057 said:


> - Female vocals: probably slightly smoother on the 009 depending on your system, the 1266 phi's midrange can get grainy on cheaper sources and isn't quite electrostatic-smooth on the best day.
> - Jazz: same as above, but 1266 phi's have better imaging and you can pair them with strong tube amps to emphasize the midrange .
> - Rock: definitely the Abyss, the 009's bass just doesn't have the same level of quality.
> 
> A "best" amp pairing for the Abyss in my books is something like the Viva 845 or a Nagra Classic INT, though, and that's a much bigger investment than a BHSE/KGHSSV carbon.


I can’t justify spending that much on a amp.  I have heard the the Audio-GD Master 9 is a good pairing with the Abyss and is one of the more transparent amps with the lowest noise floor for the CHORD DAVE. How does the Master 9 compare to the much more expemnssinve amps you listed.   I don’t want to fuss with tune amps.


----------



## ufospls2 (Jan 30, 2019)

tunes said:


> I can’t justify spending that much on a amp.  I have heard the the Audio-GD Master 9 is a good pairing with the Abyss and is one of the more transparent amps with the lowest noise floor for the CHORD DAVE. How does the Master 9 compare to the much more expemnssinve amps you listed.   I don’t want to fuss with tune amps.



I'd give the iFi Pro iCAN a try. Its a better amp than the Master 9. Powerful enough for the Abyss. Sounds great. I've owned both and would definitely recommend that you give it a try


----------



## tunes

black noise floor talker the e


ufospls2 said:


> I'd give the iFi Pro iCAN a try. Its a better amp than the Master 9. Powerful enough for the Abyss. Sounds great. I've owned both and would definitely recommend that you give it a try


is it also a balanced amp and is it as transparent with as black a background low noise floor as the master 9?


----------



## ufospls2

tunes said:


> black noise floor talker the e
> 
> is it also a balanced amp and is it as transparent with as black a background low noise floor as the master 9?



More transparent especially in solid state mode, balanced=yes.


----------



## lambdastorm

ufospls2 said:


> I'd give the iFi Pro iCAN a try. Its a better amp than the Master 9. Powerful enough for the Abyss. Sounds great. I've owned both and would definitely recommend that you give it a try


Is that a Perfectwave or DirectStream?


----------



## ufospls2

lambdastorm said:


> Is that a Perfectwave or DirectStream?



Perfectwave MK2. Don't own it anymore though, thats an old photo


----------



## mt-hifidelity

I also have the iCan Pro and am happy with it.   The Abyss seems to like as much power as I can give it.   I also have the iDSD Pro and although its a great DAC, it wasn't cutting it as an amp for the Abyss.    Until I am lucky enough to afford a Headtrip amp I'll probably stick with the iCan.


----------



## lambdastorm

ufospls2 said:


> Perfectwave MK2. Don't own it anymore though, thats an old photo


I see. Got one in my system 2 months ago and its a nice upgrade over my 4-year-old Nuwave


----------



## Zhanming057

tunes said:


> I can’t justify spending that much on a amp.  I have heard the the Audio-GD Master 9 is a good pairing with the Abyss and is one of the more transparent amps with the lowest noise floor for the CHORD DAVE. How does the Master 9 compare to the much more expemnssinve amps you listed.   I don’t want to fuss with tune amps.



Not very familiar with Audio-GD, but the Xi Audio Formula S is a really good pairing with the 1266 phi's as far as solid states are concerned. It's a bit more expensive though. 

I've also had good experience with the Wells Audio Milo, which has a lot of power for its size.


----------



## tunes

Zhanming057 said:


> Not very familiar with Audio-GD, but the Xi Audio Formula S is a really good pairing with the 1266 phi's as far as solid states are concerned. It's a bit more expensive though.
> 
> I've also had good experience with the Wells Audio Milo, which has a lot of power for its size.


Is the Milo a balanced amp?  Is the ABYSS 1266 cabled for balanced amps?


----------



## ufospls2

tunes said:


> Is the Milo a balanced amp?  Is the ABYSS 1266 cabled for balanced amps?



Don't get hung up on and amp being balanced. A good sounding single ended amp is better than a bad sounding balanced amp. Balanced doesn't = good, or better. Yes the Abyss comes with a 4pin XLR cable (in the light package) and an adapter for XLR to SE 1/4" TRS. 

The Milo is a single ended amp, but has a 4pin XLR output for convenience. I owned the Milo and really enjoyed it. If you are looking for maximum transparency for around $1000 the Pro iCAN is your best bet I think. The Milo is a bit more expensive.


----------



## Zhanming057

tunes said:


> Is the Milo a balanced amp?  Is the ABYSS 1266 cabled for balanced amps?



In addition to what ufospls2 said, the Pro iCAN is a bit thin for the Abyss but a reasonable choice for the price. I have seen used Milo's go for $1,700-ish, though, so the price difference isn't as big as what the MSRP would suggest.

One other option that's easier to get in the US is the Schiit Ragnarok, which also has a lot more features, including 32-step adjustable gain, compared to the Milo.


----------



## GU1DO

Zhanming057 said:


> In addition to what ufospls2 said, the Pro iCAN is a bit thin for the Abyss but a reasonable choice for the price. I have seen used Milo's go for $1,700-ish, though, so the price difference isn't as big as what the MSRP would suggest.
> 
> One other option that's easier to get in the US is the Schiit Ragnarok, which also has a lot more features, including 32-step adjustable gain, compared to the Milo.


I think the Pro iCAN is more suitable with dynamic headphones , i loved so much with Sennheiser headphones , For planer it lack the oomph and the background details are not on bar with more powerful amps.
i am interested on the Schiit Ragnarok , would you recommend over the Milo ?


----------



## Zhanming057

GU1DO said:


> I think the Pro iCAN is more suitable with dynamic headphones , i loved so much with Sennheiser headphones , For planer it lack the oomph and the background details are not on bar with more powerful amps.
> i am interested on the Schiit Ragnarok , would you recommend over the Milo ?



Good things about the Milo (non reference):
- Global voltage, takes up less space too
- Arguably better tuning with a better vocal range and more refined mids 
- Cheaper street price wise.
- Can be upgraded to the reference version which is a much stronger amp

Good things about the Rag:
- A lot more functionality, comes with fully balanced output and speaker taps 
- More power at just about any given load, stronger imaging and bass extension.
- Schiit products seems to hold value relatively well.


----------



## jlbrach

GU1DO said:


> I think the Pro iCAN is more suitable with dynamic headphones , i loved so much with Sennheiser headphones , For planer it lack the oomph and the background details are not on bar with more powerful amps.
> i am interested on the Schiit Ragnarok , would you recommend over the Milo ?



more powerful than the ican?...it is a beast especially in balanced mode.....no possible way you need more power


----------



## tunes

Zhanming057 said:


> In addition to what ufospls2 said, the Pro iCAN is a bit thin for the Abyss but a reasonable choice for the price. I have seen used Milo's go for $1,700-ish, though, so the price difference isn't as big as what the MSRP would suggest.
> 
> One other option that's easier to get in the US is the Schiit Ragnarok, which also has a lot more features, including 32-step adjustable gain, compared to the Milo.


Thanks for the advise.


jlbrach said:


> more powerful than the ican?...it is a beast especially in balanced mode.....no possible way you need more power


From the reviews I have read this amp has a few gimmicks to play with but the tube side is not as good as a stand alone tube amp and overall even on the SS side, with the DAVE it filters alot of the microdetail and therefore is not very transparent. It can’t be used balanced with the DAVE either.  Is there another recommendation for an amp that will minimize subtracting the microdetail of the DAVE, keep the black silent background with low noise floor and just add more power for the ABYSS PHI to achieve its full potential.  I have also read reviews of the Audio-GD Master 9 that also mentioned loss of microdetails. I would prefer not to have any amp between DAVE and any headphone but what something to add for $2K or less. 

Thanks


----------



## Alarickc

tunes said:


> Thanks for the advise.
> 
> From the reviews I have read this amp has a few gimmicks to play with but the tube side is not as good as a stand alone tube amp and overall even on the SS side, with the DAVE it filters alot of the microdetail and therefore is not very transparent. It can’t be used balanced with the DAVE either.  Is there another recommendation for an amp that will minimize subtracting the microdetail of the DAVE, keep the black silent background with low noise floor and just add more power for the ABYSS PHI to achieve its full potential.  I have also read reviews of the Audio-GD Master 9 that also mentioned loss of microdetails. I would prefer not to have any amp between DAVE and any headphone but what something to add for $2K or less.
> 
> Thanks


Sounds like you want one of two things: 
1. A used GS-X Mk2 for ~$2000
2. A New Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar for $2100

Depending on your tonal preferences you may want to pair these amps with a slightly mid-forward source. Overall, I don't think you can get more transparent amps for the money. Heck, it's hard to find a more transparent SS amp for _more _money.


----------



## ufospls2

tunes said:


> Thanks for the advise.
> 
> with the DAVE it filters alot of the microdetail and therefore is not very transparent. It can’t be used balanced with the DAVE either.
> 
> Thanks



Not really true. It isn't the most transparent option, but it is more transparent than pretty much anything in your price segment. The Pro iCAN is a balanced amp.

Don't get hung up on balanced. The DAVE isn't a balanced DAC. The XLR outputs are there for convenience only.

Try the soundaware P1. @gordec really likes his with his Hifiman Susvara.

EDIT: Also a used GSX-MK2.


----------



## mulder01

tunes said:


> Thanks for the advise.
> 
> From the reviews I have read this amp has a few gimmicks to play with but the tube side is not as good as a stand alone tube amp and overall even on the SS side, with the DAVE it filters alot of the microdetail and therefore is not very transparent. It can’t be used balanced with the DAVE either.  Is there another recommendation for an amp that will minimize subtracting the microdetail of the DAVE, keep the black silent background with low noise floor and just add more power for the ABYSS PHI to achieve its full potential.  I have also read reviews of the Audio-GD Master 9 that also mentioned loss of microdetails. I would prefer not to have any amp between DAVE and any headphone but what something to add for $2K or less.
> 
> Thanks



Wait, you're willing to fork out for an $11k Dave, but don't want to spend any more than $2k on an amp to make it better...


----------



## jlbrach

i owned the ican and disagree with the above assessment...i found it worked quite well with my dave without sacrificing that much detail and had more than ample power for any HP


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Its interesting to see how many folks on this thread are Dave owners.  I would have loved to get one myself but opted for the much more affordable iFi iDSD Pro.   The dream is definitely the mscaler/Dave combo, along with a beastly amp like the Headtrip II.   Until then the iDSD/iCan combo is doing a decent job.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Has anyone here heard the Diana Phi?   Any comparisons you can make between the Diana Phi and 1266 Phi?


----------



## mt-hifidelity

mulder01 said:


> Wait, you're willing to fork out for an $11k Dave, but don't want to spend any more than $2k on an amp to make it better...


I'm not a huge fan of the iCan's tube output but the solid-state side delivers quite well, imo.  Certainly competes well with other amps under $3K.   I'd be interested in others' opinions if there's something substantially better at roughly the same price point or less...


----------



## mulder01

mt-hifidelity said:


> Has anyone here heard the Diana Phi?   Any comparisons you can make between the Diana Phi and 1266 Phi?



I was wondering the same thing.  If it's more diana or more 1266... I guess that's the sort of comparison you could only do at a show.  CanJam NYC is coming, so... we probably still won't get any thoughts...


----------



## mt-hifidelity

mulder01 said:


> I was wondering the same thing.  If it's more diana or more 1266... I guess that's the sort of comparison you could only do at a show.  CanJam NYC is coming, so... we probably still won't get any thoughts...


Yep, that's what I want to know and one reason I'll be at the show.     I love my 1266 Phi but did not love the original Diana.   If the Diana Phi comes closer, I'm game!


----------



## lambdastorm

mt-hifidelity said:


> I'm not a huge fan of the iCan's tube output but the solid-state side delivers quite well, imo.  Certainly competes well with other amps under $3K.   I'd be interested in others' opinions if there's something substantially better at roughly the same price point or less...


My thoughts exactly. I enjoyed the iCAN while I had them, but the tube section doesn't sound quite right.


----------



## acantor

I realize this is an Abyss forum, but the iFi DSD Pro was mentioned and I would greatly appreciate any comments about its sound
quality.  Thanks!


----------



## phase0

I've been curious about the Hugo 2 TT, anyone had a chance to try it with the Abyss? 

It supposedly has a little more output power than the Dave and sounds great. No 4-pin HP connector on it so I'm not sure how you would hook it up to the Abyss. Maybe you can split the two 1/4" to balanced? or just use 1/4" adapter? or the 3-pin balanced out the back which might be too hot? IDK.... I don't need one but I'm casually curious about the combo and how it sounds. I'd love to hear some impressions.


----------



## ufospls2

mt-hifidelity said:


> Has anyone here heard the Diana Phi?   Any comparisons you can make between the Diana Phi and 1266 Phi?



I'll insert the comparison part from my Diana Phi review below, hope it helps

_AB-1266 Phi: The AB-1266 is, for me, and all or nothing headphone. Its big, brash, and makes no compromises. I have always found it comfortable, but again, I know some people don’t. The Diana Phi is much lighter and comfortable than the AB-1266. However, you do lose out on a bit sound stage and imaging precision with the Diana Phi. This is to be expected as you can’t manually manipulate the angle and width of the frame like you can with the AB-1266. Tonally the Diana Phi is pretty much the exact same, apart from the lack of slight sibilance that I mentioned earlier. If you want the full on Abyss experience, consider purchasing the AB-1266 Phi CC. There is nothing else like it on the market. If you don’t mind a little bit less soundstage, and want a lighter headphone that can be worn all day comfortably, consider at least trying the Diana Phi. You really aren’t missing out on much, in my humble opinion. Might I still purchase a pair of AB-1266 Phi CC? Perhaps. However, it is a lot of money to spend when I feel I am getting most of the experience with the Diana Phi. Time will tell I suppose._



phase0 said:


> I've been curious about the Hugo 2 TT, anyone had a chance to try it with the Abyss?
> 
> It supposedly has a little more output power than the Dave and sounds great. No 4-pin HP connector on it so I'm not sure how you would hook it up to the Abyss. Maybe you can split the two 1/4" to balanced? or just use 1/4" adapter? or the 3-pin balanced out the back which might be too hot? IDK.... I don't need one but I'm casually curious about the combo and how it sounds. I'd love to hear some impressions.



I'm using (or I was, until it broke...) the HTT2 with the Diana Phi. The HTT2 is on the bright side of things, but offers great clarity. For running the Abyss off of it you would have two options. Use the standard 1/4 output using the adapter that comes with the Abyss or have a dual 3 pin XLR to 4 pin XLR (all female) made. This would allow you to run headphones terminated in 4pin XLR off the XLR outputs on the rear of the device.


----------



## phase0

ufospls2 said:


> I'm using (or I was, until it broke...) the HTT2 with the Diana Phi. The HTT2 is on the bright side of things, but offers great clarity. For running the Abyss off of it you would have two options. Use the standard 1/4 output using the adapter that comes with the Abyss or have a dual 3 pin XLR to 4 pin XLR (all female) made. This would allow you to run headphones terminated in 4pin XLR off the XLR outputs on the rear of the device.



Thanks! From the HTT2 thread they make it sound like it does everything to perfection. I'm surprised to hear it comes in on the bright side but that's definitely not what I'm going for.


----------



## rickles

Hi all!  Is there a list of recommended amplifiers for the Abyss Phi?  This is a big thread!  

#newabyssowner


----------



## koven

rickles said:


> Hi all!  Is there a list of recommended amplifiers for the Abyss Phi?  This is a big thread!
> 
> #newabyssowner



The Formula S amp was designed specifically w/ the Abyss.

https://abyss-headphones.com/products/eleven-audio-xiaudio-formula-s


----------



## rickles

Makes sense!  Thank you!  Are there others that this group tends to love with the Abyss Phi?


----------



## szymonsays

If anyone is interested in trading their Abyss Diana Phi for the 1266 Phi (non-ceramic coating) with CC pads, let me know  I also posted my ad in the classifieds section.


----------



## simorag (Feb 1, 2019)

rickles said:


> Makes sense!  Thank you!  Are there others that this group tends to love with the Abyss Phi?



Here is a rough collection of some popular choices based on many posts on this thread, more or less in increasing price order:

- Violectric V281
- iFi iCan Pro
- Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold (discontinued, can be found used)
- Headamp GSX-Mk2​- XI Audio Formula S (+ Powerman power supply) - I own this combo and I am pretty happy with it
- Eddie Current Studio (tubes)
- Wells Headtrip
- Viva Egoista 845 (tubes)
- Woo Audio WA33 (tubes)

Abyss Phi are great also direct from Chord DAVE.

Some users (at their own risk) go with loudspeaker amps via adapters and possibly resistors.

If you tell the community a bit more about your music and sound signature preferences, and how much you are willing to invest, perhaps you can get some more specific advice


----------



## jlbrach

as one who owns the abyss phi and dave/blu2 combo i have gone back and forth on the amp no amp question....i currently have the Violectric 281, had the Ipro can and wells milo and moon 430.....I have come to the conclusion that the abyss sounds appreciably better direct out of the dave but and there is a but.......some of my music is older jazz that is mastered to very low volume that requires the 281.....in the majority of cases the transparency is just too fantastic to sacrifice with the amp....


----------



## rickles

I'd be curious to hear the Abyss out of the Dave, and the v281.  I do have a Hugo2, but I'm imagining that it's probably not gutsy enough to power the Abyss Phi well...


----------



## Zhanming057 (Feb 1, 2019)

rickles said:


> I'd be curious to hear the Abyss out of the Dave, and the v281.  I do have a Hugo2, but I'm imagining that it's probably not gutsy enough to power the Abyss Phi well...



Well, I think you probably know my take on the issue  I am not convinced that the Dave has a good enough headphone output for anything beyond something like a Utopia or Ether Flow. And while Chord is kind of a sacred cow on Head-fi, I don't think that the Dave is a very good DAC for $10k either. It needs the Mscalar to fight the true Summit-fi's (e.g. Nagra, Linn, Berkeley Alpha Ref 2, DCS), and at that point there simply are more polished DAC's for the price. The v281 is one of the very best options for classical music on a HD800/800S, but it's not a particularly good fit for the 1266 phi either.

And if we are talking about $3,000 amps, while the Formula S is an excellent headphone amp, I really, really think that you should go with a speaker amp at this price range. The 1266 phi's benefit significantly from power. When you can get a Esoteric I03, an absolutely fantastic machine with superlative material and build quality, used, for the same price as a brand new Formula S, there isn't a good reason to not go with the speaker amp. Anyways, some of the better combinations that I've heard with the 1266 phi:


Viva Egoista/Solistino 845 - they are functionally the same amp, the only difference is that the Egoista has a headphone jack. This is IMO the best synergy I have gotten from the 1266 phi's for jazz, rock and vocals, they almost seem to made for strong 845 amps. You're paying for the paint job on both amps but the Solistino occasionally shows up used for less than $4,000.
Nagra Classic INT - clean, perfectly controlled and in a sweet spot on low gain with the 1266 phi's. This is what I run my 1266 phi's with.
Airtight 300b with an ATC1 pre - the most well-controlled 300b system, you get the euphoria of the WA5 without giving up as much speed or dynamic range. The Manley 300b is only a tiny bit behind and is a lot easier to find stateside, though.
Mass Kobo Model 394. An amp that's underpowered on paper but has near-perfect composure through the entire output range. Masuda, the designer of this amp uses it with his non-phi 1266's. Clean and punchy, but has a linear treble range that might not be to everyone's taste.
Wells Headtrip. Powerful, great midrange and highly dynamic. A significant step up from the Formula S in terms of output.


----------



## JLoud

I believe they used the Woo WA5 in tuning the 1266.


----------



## mulder01

rickles said:


> Makes sense!  Thank you!  Are there others that this group tends to love with the Abyss Phi?



I used mine for years with the v281 and never felt the need to spend more after hearing other amps.


----------



## rickles

jlbrach said:


> as one who owns the abyss phi and dave/blu2 combo i have gone back and forth on the amp no amp question....i currently have the Violectric 281, had the Ipro can and wells milo and moon 430.....I have come to the conclusion that the abyss sounds appreciably better direct out of the dave but and there is a but.......some of my music is older jazz that is mastered to very low volume that requires the 281.....in the majority of cases the transparency is just too fantastic to sacrifice with the amp....


How did you like the iPro?  How does it compare to the V281?


----------



## GU1DO

rickles said:


> Hi all!  Is there a list of recommended amplifiers for the Abyss Phi?  This is a big thread!
> 
> #newabyssowner


You need power ,, a lot of current , get the most powerful amp you can buy.
AudioGD Master 9 is my recommendation (with a good quality cables), 
others would suggest other brands , its your home work to pick the best for your needs.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Daniel Brezina with Hi-Fi Voice in Czech Republic wrote a wonderful review on the AB-1266 Phi CC...

English translation:
https://translate.google.com/transl...a-recenze/sluchatka/2053-abyss-ab-1266-phi-cc

Original:
https://www.hifi-voice.com/testy-a-...6nUar4g6uN4aKXK6NyBU4kiqZC1Vzu4ynSAeLEtLvwu1w


----------



## vortrex

I've had the V281 and while I sold it right before getting the AB-1266 Phi CC I can confidently say it is not in the same league as the Allnic HPA-3000 GT which I now use with the Abyss.  3w output, Class A power, Allnic permalloy core transformers, NOS tubes, custom silver 41 step attenuator, pre-out.  Top notch build quality, weighs over 20lbs.  Price is $4k.  If you're not familiar with Allnic they're quite famous for their tube gear in the high end speaker based vinyl world.

http://allnicaudio.com/?page_id=928


----------



## lambdastorm

GU1DO said:


> You need power ,, a lot of current , get the most powerful amp you can buy.
> AudioGD Master 9 is my recommendation (with a good quality cables),
> others would suggest other brands , its your home work to pick the best for your needs.


Master 9 and Headtrip are both excellent. I enjoyed the latter thoroughly while I still had them, pitch black background & near perfect control over any planars I've thrown at em. Pair these with Abyss and there's this eerie sense of realism you can't find on any other headphone, peiod. Too bad they're not made for dynamics, or else I would've kept them. As for the former I've heard them several times at local meetings, serves my HE6 really well.

The only other amp that I'm eyeing right now beside the 845 is the Trafomatic Primavera. Looking forward to hearing them at CanJam next month.


----------



## phase0

This is slightly off topic from Abyss but I feel this reading Head-Fi ...

Akiba's Trip The Animation - Audiophile


----------



## Zhanming057

phase0 said:


> This is slightly off topic from Abyss but I feel this reading Head-Fi ...
> 
> Akiba's Trip The Animation - Audiophile




“The road to hell is paved with audio enthusiasts”. I laughed out loud at that line.

Also, is that an Esoteric CDT and a ATM2? That's actually a pretty good combo.


----------



## jlbrach

Zhanming057 said:


> Well, I think you probably know my take on the issue  I am not convinced that the Dave has a good enough headphone output for anything beyond something like a Utopia or Ether Flow. And while Chord is kind of a sacred cow on Head-fi, I don't think that the Dave is a very good DAC for $10k either. It needs the Mscalar to fight the true Summit-fi's (e.g. Nagra, Linn, Berkeley Alpha Ref 2, DCS), and at that point there simply are more polished DAC's for the price. The v281 is one of the very best options for classical music on a HD800/800S, but it's not a particularly good fit for the 1266 phi either.
> 
> And if we are talking about $3,000 amps, while the Formula S is an excellent headphone amp, I really, really think that you should go with a speaker amp at this price range. The 1266 phi's benefit significantly from power. When you can get a Esoteric I03, an absolutely fantastic machine with superlative material and build quality, used, for the same price as a brand new Formula S, there isn't a good reason to not go with the speaker amp. Anyways, some of the better combinations that I've heard with the 1266 phi:
> 
> ...


I pretty much disagree about everything here.....


----------



## lambdastorm

phase0 said:


> This is slightly off topic from Abyss but I feel this reading Head-Fi ...
> 
> Akiba's Trip The Animation - Audiophile



"Idol songs are best heard live"   lmao savage


----------



## astrostar59

jlbrach said:


> I pretty much disagree about everything here.....



I agree with some of it. Ignoring the DAVE subject, though I do think with the MScaler it has to be pitched against my DAC, or a Lampizator GG, CH Precision.
I agree the Viva Egoista is a great headphone amp, and if it was me I would go for the DAVE on it's own with the Viva amp, job done. But I have to say my Aries Cerat Genus speaker amp (with headphone jack) is as good as the Viva amp, probably better, and blows away every other headlamp I have heard to date, inc the WA33, Auris Headonia, BHSE etc. My LCD4 is power hungry and is the Abyss. On specs they don't 'need' 8 Watts+ but seem benefit from it regardless.


----------



## mulder01

vortrex said:


> I've had the V281 and while I sold it right before getting the AB-1266 Phi CC I can confidently say it is not in the same league as the Allnic HPA-3000 GT which I now use with the Abyss.  3w output, Class A power, Allnic permalloy core transformers, NOS tubes, custom silver 41 step attenuator, pre-out.  Top notch build quality, weighs over 20lbs.  Price is $4k.  If you're not familiar with Allnic they're quite famous for their tube gear in the high end speaker based vinyl world.
> 
> http://allnicaudio.com/?page_id=928



You had a v281 but didn't try it with the Abyss, but you did try the Abyss on your new amp and can confidently say it's better...
yeah
cool cool


----------



## vortrex

mulder01 said:


> You had a v281 but didn't try it with the Abyss, but you did try the Abyss on your new amp and can confidently say it's better...
> yeah
> cool cool



Yes, that's correct.  It's really quite simple to tell when two devices are in a different class.  The V281 is a good amp, not a great amp.  I can confidently say my EAR HP4 was better than the V281 also.  The V281 is somewhat sterile.


----------



## mulder01

vortrex said:


> Yes, that's correct.  It's really quite simple to tell when two devices are in a different class.  The V281 is a good amp, not a great amp.  I can confidently say my EAR HP4 was better than the V281 also.  The V281 is somewhat sterile.


Definitely an uncommon opinion.  v281 has a reputation for being neutral/warm on this forum and warm/ excessively warm/ warmer than some tube amps elsewhere.  Definitely the first time I've heard the word 'sterile' used to describe it.
@rickles I think you'll find if you did read the whole thread, you'd find just about every high(er) end amp with a thread on head fi has been used and loved (or not loved) by at least somebody.  Your best bet is to go an have a listen to a few for yourself before deciding.  It's _massively_ down to personal preference.


----------



## Zhanming057

mulder01 said:


> Definitely an uncommon opinion.  v281 has a reputation for being neutral/warm on this forum and warm/ excessively warm/ warmer than some tube amps elsewhere.  Definitely the first time I've heard the word 'sterile' used to describe it.
> @rickles I think you'll find if you did read the whole thread, you'd find just about every high(er) end amp with a thread on head fi has been used and loved (or not loved) by at least somebody.  Your best bet is to go an have a listen to a few for yourself before deciding.  It's _massively_ down to personal preference.



I won't use the word "sterile" on the V281 but it's not bright and definitely not as lush as a high end OTL tube amp. That said, I do question how well OTL's perform on low impedance, low sensitivity headphones since my impression has been that they play best to headphones with extraordinarily high impedance (hd800, t1) and not the summit-fi planars. I've not tried the 3000GT with the Abyss, though, but my impression was that it's a killer amp for the HD800S.

The Dave does play better with tube amps. But even with the Mscalar, I don't seem to get as much information out of the Dave as the Alpha DAC Reference 2 (about $10-11k used) or the Nagra Classic DAC (about $9-10k used). At best it's on par with the Merging NADAC which is also a bit on the cold and brittle side. The TT2 is very, very nearly as good as the Dave with the Mscalar in play, and that's a much more convincing system at its price point. I would buy a TT2 for travel if it still had an internal battery.


----------



## MacedonianHero

ufospls2 said:


> Not really true. It isn't the most transparent option, but it is more transparent than pretty much anything in your price segment. The Pro iCAN is a balanced amp.
> 
> Don't get hung up on balanced. The DAVE isn't a balanced DAC. The XLR outputs are there for convenience only.
> 
> ...



The convenience of the balanced outs are for amps just like the GS-X Mk2 / Eleven Audio Broadway amplifiers that require balanced inputs to engage the full circuitry. The DAVE works brilliantly with both and in either setup, the Abyss Phi is an absolute wonder!


----------



## simorag (Feb 11, 2019)

Listening to Dr. Chesky's Sensational Fantastic And Simply Amazing Binaural Sound Show! (Chesky Records) right now, and a few tracks like Bach Toccata and Fugue and Mozart Ave Verum are the perfect display of the Abyss Phi outstanding bass reproduction.


 

The organ deepest notes are delivered with plenty of visceral impact (a level of physicality almost incredible for a headphone), while not overwhelming the rest of the sound spectrum or collapsing the soundstage, instead remaining realistically clean and resolved.

I tried both DAVE direct and through the Formula S / Powerman, and the latter - once levelled the SPL - provides a more physically involving rendering of the atmospherics of the recording to my ears, along with a slightly larger headstage.


----------



## GU1DO (Feb 11, 2019)

Funny story happened with me today , thankfully with happy ending 
this morning i was noticing that the imaging of the sound on my abyss was shifting to the left , bass was more on the left side , i changed the amp but with same results , imaging is not correct and bass is more to the left , it wasn't clear but very noticeable change which got me nuts , i concluded that the right driver was partially damaged , so i contacted the store for checkup and to compare it to the demo unit they have , i got appointment for tomorrow morning , then went for lunch , came back after that for more fiddling and i was surprised that everything was perfect , imaging is dead center , bass is equal , it was just perfect , it didn't cross my mind to tight the headband , the placement of ear-cups what fcked up the sound , i was going circles around my self , that was so stupid and never happened to me with any other headphone , placement of the abyss on the head is really crucial.


----------



## fredfung28

Are there any abyss 1266 user that could share their thoughts about mysphere 3.2? I just got a demo unit from them and was hoping to have someone could PM me for some sharing and findings to see if we have the same thoughts or not. Thanks!


----------



## rickles

fredfung28 said:


> Are there any abyss 1266 user that could share their thoughts about mysphere 3.2? I just got a demo unit from them and was hoping to have someone could PM me for some sharing and findings to see if we have the same thoughts or not. Thanks!



@Zhanming057


----------



## fredfung28

rickles said:


> @Zhanming057


I have contacted him privately for long, just want more people who has 1266 phi for discussion only, thanks for helping!


----------



## rickles

Just a note.  I received my Abyss Phi CC today.  Two things; I am not 100% sure how to tell if these are CC or not?  Is there something obvious versus regular Phi?  Secondly, while waiting for a new amplifier, I have powered these out of both a beta22 (via high end analog rig!), and out of a hugo2.  Both sound pretty fantastic.  Really enjoying them!


----------



## FLTWS

rickles said:


> Just a note.  I received my Abyss Phi CC today.  Two things; I am not 100% sure how to tell if these are CC or not?  Is there something obvious versus regular Phi?  Secondly, while waiting for a new amplifier, I have powered these out of both a beta22 (via high end analog rig!), and out of a hugo2.  Both sound pretty fantastic.  Really enjoying them!


The CC pads have vent holes around the perimeter, the originals did not.


----------



## FLTWS

GU1DO said:


> Funny story happened with me today , thankfully with happy ending
> this morning i was noticing that the imaging of the sound on my abyss was shifting to the left , bass was more on the left side , i concluded that the right driver was partially damaged , i changed the amp and same results , imaging is not correct and bass is more to the left , it is wasn't clear but very noticeable change , so i contacted the store for checkup and to compare it to the demo unit they have , i got appointment for tomorrow morning , went for lunch , came back for more fiddling and i was surprised that everything was perfect , imaging is dead center , bass is equal , it was just perfect , didn't cross my mind to tight the headband , the placement of ear-cups what fcked up the sound , i was going circles around my self , that was so stupid and never happend to me with any other headphone , placement of the abyss on the head is really crucial.



Yes it is.


----------



## rickles

FLTWS said:


> The CC pads have vent holes around the perimeter, the originals did not.



Thank you, totally get that, but there are many Abyss PHI non-CC floating around where the pads have beeb bought after the fact.  What I am curious about is how the CC finish differs from the standard finish.  So, obvious differences in the finish for a person that hasn't really seen both.


----------



## FLTWS

Take off the pad, look at the transducer housing, you will see a 


 symbol near the serial number.


----------



## Zhanming057

rickles said:


> Just a note.  I received my Abyss Phi CC today.  Two things; I am not 100% sure how to tell if these are CC or not?  Is there something obvious versus regular Phi?  Secondly, while waiting for a new amplifier, I have powered these out of both a beta22 (via high end analog rig!), and out of a hugo2.  Both sound pretty fantastic.  Really enjoying them!



The headphones have a slightly different "sheen" although it's not easy to tell unless you put them side by side.

The earpads are more conical, much thicker, with vent holes around the edge. That's pretty much it. Do they say "CC" on the receipt or something?


----------



## Zhanming057

FLTWS said:


> Take off the pad, look at the transducer housing, you will see a  symbol near the serial number.



that's for both the Phi and the Phi CC - yeah it's really hard to tell between the two.


----------



## lambdastorm

rickles said:


> Thank you, totally get that, but there are many Abyss PHI non-CC floating around where the pads have beeb bought after the fact.  What I am curious about is how the CC finish differs from the standard finish.  So, obvious differences in the finish for a person that hasn't really seen both.


Abyss has actually underwent 3 finishes so far. The first, aka 'classical' finish was introduced when they first came out. It was shiny and very smooth to the touch. 2 years later they switched to a more toned-down matte finish and that was right before Phi came out if memory serves me right. CC is the 3rd finish, which supposedly lowers resonance. I don't buy it but it does look cool.


----------



## mt-hifidelity (Feb 11, 2019)

rickles said:


> Hi all!  Is there a list of recommended amplifiers for the Abyss Phi?  This is a big thread!
> 
> #newabyssowner


Congrats on getting your new Abyss!   I feel it is one of a very very small number of true 'end game' headphones.  It's certainly my favorite TOTL model compared to the Focal, HifiMan, Audeze, Sennheiser, etc etc.    
My understanding is that the CC is the power-coat finish, and is therefore it's not as shiny/glossy as the previous Abyss 1266.  When I asked the folks at JPS Labs about it they said that the new driver and earcups make the real audible difference (implying the coating is not really impactful).     Of course, since I own a non-CC Abyss Phi, that is what I wanted to hear. 

I agree with some of the other comments about amping.  The Hugo2 can drive the Abyss but it doesn't fully do it justice.  I experience a vastly more visceral and 3D sound when I pair it with a good amp.  I have the iCan Pro which I like at the sub-$2K pricepoint.  Its solid-state output is great but I don't love its tube section.   Just my taste.    I pair the iCan with the iFi iDSD Pro (DAC), which is marketed as a solid headphone amp itself, but I found it just does not compare with the iCan.   It's almost like the amp pulls apart the recording and separates all of the instruments/voices so they are positioned in 3D space.  I've never heard any DAC come close to that effect, although I can't say I've tried the DAVE with the Abyss yet.    My experience is that almost all amps will slightly soften the edges of the DAC output so you end up losing a bit of the extreme resolution, but the right amp will provide other benefits that outweigh that tiny bit of loss.   Without enough power its harder to get that sense of space and realism.


----------



## Beolab

” The Best Sounding Headphone period ! ”


----------



## FLTWS

I like the matte finish on my Phi, unless I grab them with peanut butter all over my hands they show no finger prints at all.


----------



## rickles

I must say, the combination of Abyss Phi, and Audio Technica ATH-W2002 is pretty sublime.  Totally different sounds, open vs. closed, heavy vs. light, metal vs. wood, big amp vs little amp.  I'd forgotten how damned good the W2002 sound, and I'm loving the Phi.


----------



## phase0

Comments on that YT vid are hilarious... "Area 51 called and they want their headphones back."

TBH how they looked was a reason I hesitated. Then again that also allowed time for the Phi to come out...


----------



## lambdastorm

phase0 said:


> Comments on that YT vid are hilarious... "Area 51 called and they want their headphones back."
> 
> TBH how they looked was a reason I hesitated. Then again that also allowed time for the Phi to come out...


One man's trash is another man's treasure I guess. Before I bought them I couldn't stop visualizing how cool they'd look on my head. After I got them I spent the entire first week ogling them from top to bottom. They really are the most badass looking gadget I've ever owned (besides porta pros that is).


----------



## phase0

IDK if the Abyss are the absolute best given how subjective things are. I just say they are among the best. I like that I hear things and I have to look around like "hey is something going on over there?" like the realism can trip me out at times. Value being subjective I feel lucky I can even find a way to own the Abyss. It's up there among my most badass gadgets. Lots of enjoyment from them. Given the cost I did have to listen to them a few years in a row for me to warm up enough to them to be willing to spend this much. Then again I had it backwards when I jumped into this about bought a badass tube amp that cost 3x the cost of my headphones at the time.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Settling in with these spectacular headphones; it's been a while since I've had them on to my head due to kids, being sick, work, son's hockey, etc...(life in genera), but man these headphones have me smiling ear to ear! I've said this before, but the most "speaker-like" presentation I've heard from any pair of headphones!


----------



## jlbrach

and i remember when you were a skeptic!


----------



## ra990 (Feb 13, 2019)

Zhanming057 said:


> that's for both the Phi and the Phi CC - yeah it's really hard to tell between the two.


It's not hard to tell, the CC models have Abyss Phi CC stamped on them under the ear pads (pretty sure they do, but don't have them in front of me right now). Also, the gray powder-like coating is pretty evident.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jlbrach said:


> and i remember when you were a skeptic!



The  DAVE made a huge impact (which I never heard paired with them) and the Phi drivers + CC ear pads really kicked things up! I’m glad I took your advice!


----------



## jlbrach

have you heard the new meze HP's which are all the rage?


----------



## Mikey99

jlbrach said:


> have you heard the new meze HP's which are all the rage?


I did a comparison with a borrowed pair, while the Emperyan was good, the Abyss was clearly better. The Emperyan had less soundstage, less separation, and was somewhat darker.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Thanks for the comparison.  I look forward to trying the Emperyan at CanJam and comparing with the Diana Phi.  I'd love a more travel-friendly companion to my homebound Abyss.


----------



## Mikey99

mt-hifidelity said:


> Thanks for the comparison.  I look forward to trying the Emperyan at CanJam and comparing with the Diana Phi.  I'd love a more travel-friendly companion to my homebound Abyss.


By all accounts the Diana Phi is superb, most say only slightly short of the AB1266phi. I have only briefly listened to them so far, I will have to go back to my dealer and give them a more critical audition.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

That's my hope.  After using the 1266 Phi its hard to listen to other headphones without feeling like something is missing.   If the Diana Phi lives up to its rep then it could be the ideal option for situations where the big boy is too unwieldy to bring along.   I notice that JPS likes to show it with the WM1Z, implying it does well with lower-powered daps/amps.  We shall see/hear


----------



## jlbrach

the Phi is a special HP....gonna be tough to improve upon to be honest


----------



## Hoegaardener70

I think the Abyss AB-1266 phi uses on the headphone side 3-pin connectors. Does anybody know of adapters to use with other cables ... Thanks!


----------



## Delacaff (Feb 16, 2019)

Hello,

This post to share my experience with the Phi CC on how it is evolving with the equipments paired with it. Firstly amplified with XI Audio Formula S, the Phi CC delivered the personality already and abundantly commented by many reviewers and members here (in short, amazing transducers). Then came the XI audio Powerman to muscle up the Formula S. The Phi CC has then made a significant step up in tones rendering and dynamic control, space and silence. This recalls how demanding the Phi CC is in amp quality. The XI audio combo is great to get the best out of the Phi, no doubt.
Today, I purchased Actinote cables (power and RCA from Aria Evo series). Despite not being broke in, the Phi CC is already delivering something new to my ears. It is not a different headphone but the cables are unleashing the Phi: bass and especially ultra bass have become palpable (can't believe the texture of the ultra bass), more presence from the medium range, outstanding layering and stiffer spacing, and last but not least, overall greater musicality. Great cables (and other tweaks and tricks) are worth to enhance SQ whatever the system is. Hifi aficionados know that very well. But I am very surprised by the huge potential of the Phi, as it is sharing more and more when paired with higher quality gears. I love the Phi for that: it is a great companion for a hifi journey.


----------



## astrostar59

simorag said:


> Here is a rough collection of some popular choices based on many posts on this thread, more or less in increasing price order:
> 
> - Violectric V281
> - iFi iCan Pro
> ...


I would add the Aries Cerat Genus SET to that list, and at the top end of it. I can confirm the sound of this amp on my lCDs beats anything I have heard so far driving them (heard: V281, GSX MK2, Viva Egoista 845, Auris Headonia, WA33). IMO. PM me if you want details.


----------



## ufospls2 (Feb 16, 2019)

Abyss Phi TC?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/canjam-nyc-2019-impressions-thread.900214/page-2#post-14783610

https://abyss-headphones.com/products/abyss-ab-1266-phi-headphone

So there is the AB-1266, AB-1266 Phi, AB-1266 Phi CC, AB1266 Phi TC.

aaaaand now im confused. lol.


----------



## ra990

It has to be just a different coating. The Phi represents the driver, CC was ceramic coating, TC must be some other type of coating, maybe Teflon?


----------



## ufospls2 (Feb 16, 2019)

"We just cant stop trying to get closer to the music. Introducing the new AB-1266 Phi TC (Total Consciousness). Newly designed 66 mm planar magnetic speaker drivers deliver the absolute highest resolution of any headphone ever made. Combined with the venerable AB-1266 headphone design, newly minted all aluminum frame and posh ear pads means you’ll never have to buy another concert ticket."

Its a new driver.

Thats interesting though, as I thought there were still people waiting to upgrade to the Phi Driver.

At the same time, it's been....1.5 years(?) Since the release of the Phi driver, so not _completely_ out of line in terms of relation to other manufacturers releasing new drivers.

I suppose it is all conjecture at this point on my part. I'm glad I didn't just buy a pair of Phi CC though!


----------



## ra990

Well all right then, total consciousness. I guess my Phi CC were just partially conscious, but could have fooled me.


----------



## Alarickc

That really sucks as someone who bought CC's direct on Christmas. To be honest, this smacks of some Hifiman-type crud. Joe had directly said on this thread that they where done incrementing the 1266s with the CC. It's part of what made me go for them. I'm still really happy with my headphones, but I'll think twice before buying more Abyss products in the future.


----------



## protoss

Alarickc said:


> That really sucks as someone who bought CC's direct on Christmas. To be honest, this smacks of some Hifiman-type crud. Joe had directly said on this thread that they where done incrementing the 1266s with the CC. It's part of what made me go for them. I'm still really happy with my headphones, but I'll think twice before buying more Abyss products in the future.



Email Joe and asked for a free upgrade! Make your case. And show support and reasoning with passion. I am pretty sure the upgrade will be justified ! I recommend to upgrade asap!


----------



## Alarickc

protoss said:


> Email Joe and asked for a free upgrade! Make your case. And show support and reasoning with passion. I am pretty sure the upgrade will be justified ! I recommend to upgrade asap!


I wrote them, I guess I'll see what happens.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

I heard the TC drivers today at CanJam.   Its hard to get a solid impression in an exhibition hall but they did sound a bit faster and more resolving than my 1266 Phi (sigh). Of course they were also amped and sourced with top XIAudio gear. I'm going back tomorrow and will bring mine for comparison.


----------



## phase0

So we need impressions of the TC vs Phi driver. We need to know if upgrades will be available and if so what kind of timeline for wait and turn around?


----------



## Savage4

If it costs more than $500 or takes more than one month for the driver upgrade from phi cc, I will abandon the brand.


----------



## ra990

Crazy to think that they can get that much better than they already are. Can't fault them for moving the technology further and refining it even more, but it sucks that the resale value of what we have will inevitably take a hit. I do remember reading on this forum that the CC would be the final revision to the 1266, so I can understand the frustration if you purchased them based on that statement.


----------



## ufospls2

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-448#post-14314297

It's interesting because I remember this post at the time. It made me think "I wonder what the next TOTL headphone by ABYSS will look like?" It also made me think "well if the CC is the final revision, I'd like to purchase a pair..."

It's hard to fault Joe and ABYSS for wanting to continue to improve the driver tech in their headphones. However, if I had purchased a pair of Phi CC recently, especially with the above post in mind, I would be a bit choked. Seeing as the price of the packages are the same on the ABYSS website, one would assume that _if_ driver upgrades are available, they will cost the same? No clue on that one. 

The naming scheme, and subsequently the used market will all be a bit more confusing now. AB-1266 (with or without CC pads,) AB-1266 Phi (with or without CC pads, matte or shiny finish,) AB-1266 Phi CC, AB-1266 Phi TC. 

I guess we will just have to wait and see what Joe and co. says


----------



## ra990

Yea, would love some input from Joe about the TC.

The naming convention does seem strange if TC is supposed to indicate a new driver. I thought that's what the Phi refers to, hence the new Diana Phi using the same driver as the 1266 Phi - but now there's Phi TC, so I guess we should expect Diana Phi TC next?


----------



## ufospls2

ra990 said:


> Yea, would love some input from Joe about the TC.
> 
> The naming convention does seem strange if TC is supposed to indicate a new driver. I thought that's what the Phi refers to, hence the new Diana Phi using the same driver as the 1266 Phi - but now there's Phi TC, so I guess we should expect Diana Phi TC next?



I agree. For the short time the Phi "CC" was the current model, it makes "TC" a bit confusing. Perhaps "AB-1266 _something"_ would have been better, and a bit less confusing. Oh well, not up to me. I know as much as you guys ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## mt-hifidelity

They said that the original would be end-of-life'd.  I'm not sure about the Phi pre-CC.
Look, yes its a bummer and I am also a wee bit deflated knowing there's a new potential end-game option out there, but if given the choice between owning the final version or seeing them push the boundaries, I would want them to continue innovating.  I agree an upgrade program would be nice.  HifiMan's upgrade program for the HE1k line is $1000, not cheap but at least the option is there.


----------



## koven

Lol TC eh, definitely taking a page out of Hifiman's playbook. Well done Aby$$.


----------



## franz12 (Feb 16, 2019)

ufospls2 said:


> "
> 
> At the same time, it's been....1.5 years(?) Since the release of the Phi driver, so not _completely_ out of line in terms of relation to other manufacturers releasing new drivers.
> 
> ...



I agree with this. A small company needs to keep providing a new product to survive. But I think Joe needs to learn how to run business better from other companies.

Hifiman learned how to not disrupt existing users by coming with the different naming scheme like hekse, ayra, ananda and so on. It confuses buyers, but in some ways, it works.
ZMF also does this. It is only about a year between Vertie and Auteur, but Zach push them as different products with different naming. And I saw nobody demands upgrade from Auteur to Vertie.

But Joe is too conscience to do this, so it is named as total conscious. ok..just kidding.


----------



## mulder01

Hmm, the way I read it on their website is that it's just a two tone colour finish instead of the CC.  As someone said, the phi part is the driver update and the CC part is the finish update?  Seems like they have just changed the finish again?  Phi driver upgrade is still an option on the online store.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

The TC is a new driver, different than the Phi driver.  CC is the frame coating.


----------



## FLTWS (Feb 16, 2019)

I thought CC was the new style pads?

The site gives me the impression that it is a new 66mm diameter driver (as different from the Phi or meaning the Phi?) but it also appears they are going to maintain the Phi CC (now "Reference") in the line.

The TC will have a different coating finish than the Phi "Reference"?

I guess will just have to wait for Joe to clarify things.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

That's right, the CC model comes with updated earpads compared to the original 1266's pads.  I saw the same new pads on the TC.


----------



## mulder01

Where exactly did the 'new driver' information come from?  The info on the Abyss website does not mention a new driver.
Abyss (Brand) AB-1266 (model) phi (driver type) CC (finish/pad type)
You change CC to TC and that, to me, implies a change to the coating.

FLTWS you are sortof right - the new pads were released with the CC finish, but they can be bought separately given that they just click on, where as you can't upgrade the finish on the headband obviously.  So someone with a phi can buy CC pads and it's ALMOST the same as a newly bought CC, just has the older paint job.


----------



## ra990 (Feb 16, 2019)

mulder01 said:


> Hmm, the way I read it on their website is that it's just a two tone colour finish instead of the CC.  As someone said, the phi part is the driver update and the CC part is the finish update?  Seems like they have just changed the finish again?  Phi driver upgrade is still an option on the online store.


I'm thinking the text for the website hasn't been updated for the TC, just the name CC has been changed to TC. The description is still the same as CC and that's what the two-tone finish is referring to.

I believe the info about the new driver and "total consciousness" is coming from people talking to Abyss at CanJam NYC and demoing the new headphone.


----------



## FLTWS (Feb 16, 2019)

mulder01 said:


> Where exactly did the 'new driver' information come from?  The info on the Abyss website does not mention a new driver.
> Abyss (Brand) AB-1266 (model) phi (driver type) CC (finish/pad type)
> You change CC to TC and that, to me, implies a change to the coating.
> 
> FLTWS you are sortof right - the new pads were released with the CC finish, but they can be bought separately given that they just click on, where as you can't upgrade the finish on the headband obviously.  So someone with a phi can buy CC pads and it's ALMOST the same as a newly bought CC, just has the older paint job.



That's what I have, the mat black finish metal Phi (purchased not upgraded) and I added the CC pads when they were introduced.

This is from the current Abyss site:

"* // ABYSS AB-1266 Phi TC Audiophile Reference Headphone 
ABYSS AB-1266 Phi TC Reference Audiophile Headphone*
* BRAND NEW!! Model AB-1266 Phi TC *
_We just cant stop trying to get closer to the music. Introducing the new AB-1266 Phi TC (Total Consciousness). Newly designed 66 mm planar magnetic speaker drivers deliver the absolute highest resolution of any headphone ever made. Combined with the venerable AB-1266 headphone design, newly minted all aluminum frame and posh ear pads means you’ll never have to buy another concert ticket._

A brand new generation of  ABYSS planar speakers. These latest ABYSS drivers offer unprecedented levels of clarity and resolution to sound, without the typical brightness or harshness. Imagine sitting with the band, hearing what they hear, surreal is the best way to describe this new AB-1266 Phi TC."

Joe will have to clarify for us.


----------



## Torq

I'll wait to see what Joe has to say, but it looks to me like a quick edit to the product page that updated the name from "CC" to "TC", mentions a different finish, and keeps the _prior_ text for the Phi driver from when it was new.  And if it really is a new, upgraded, driver, then I'm sure it'll be available as an upgrade once again - whether it's a cost effective or worthwhile one is another matter.

Though since I've only had my Phi upgrade for about a year, I might just sit this one out unless it's cheaper than last time.


----------



## mulder01 (Feb 16, 2019)

FLTWS said:


> That's what I have, the mat black finish metal Phi (purchased not upgraded) and I added the CC pads when they were introduced.
> 
> This is from the current Abyss site:
> 
> ...



Ok yeah needs clarification.  I was looking at this page before:
https://abyss-headphones.com/collections/abyss-headphones/products/abyss-ab-1266-phi-headphone
Which has a different description to this one:
https://abyss-headphones.com/pages/abyss-ab-1266-phi-reference-headphone
Maybe they mean 'new driver' compared to the original one because they have just updated the title of the page and left the original description of the phi CC??? If you scroll down further for package options, they still all say phi CC...
Pretty confusing
I think they need a new website guy


----------



## rickles

Aside from the TC stuff...  

Anyone compared the Hugo2 vs the Hugo TT (non TT2) using the Abyss Phi CC?  I find the Hugo2 does a decent job powering the Abyss, I would hazard to say that it even sounds somehow more transparent, and with greater air around the different tracks of the song than using my balanced beta22, or v280.  Which is somewhat surprising to me.  It seems that the TT uses older technology than the Hugo2, but allegedly puts out more power.


----------



## jlbrach

H2 cannot drive the Phi....the dave barely can


----------



## ra990

jlbrach said:


> H2 cannot drive the Phi....the dave barely can


It can as long as you're listening at moderate volume level. I did it for months before getting the TT2. Obviously, the TT2's balanced outs made a huge difference and added a lot of meat on the bones, but the H2 did a commendable job for a long time.


----------



## jlbrach

i can barely use my dave with the phi but if you enjoyed it more power to you


----------



## Autostart

rickles said:


> Aside from the TC stuff...
> 
> Anyone compared the Hugo2 vs the Hugo TT (non TT2) using the Abyss Phi CC?  I find the Hugo2 does a decent job powering the Abyss, I would hazard to say that it even sounds somehow more transparent, and with greater air around the different tracks of the song than using my balanced beta22, or v280.  Which is somewhat surprising to me.  It seems that the TT uses older technology than the Hugo2, but allegedly puts out more power.



I know your post is referring to the Hugo 2 vs TT ( non TT2 ) so I cannot really help you as I have the Hugo TT 2 only and have not heard either of the mentioned above BUT..... before the TT 2 I had Yggy A1/A2>Woo Audio WA5>Tak300B which was a wonderful pairing with the Abyss 1266 Phi CC. One of the best I have heard. Well, that was until the Hugo TT 2 arrived. I quickly soldered up a dual 3 pin XLR to 4 pin XLR adapter to unleash the 18 watts @ 8 ohms directly out of the rear of the TT 2. I dont think anyone takes into consideration the dampening interconnects make. Even coming and going from DAC to AMP. The advantages I've gained being able to listen directly from my source AND with plenty of power has left my jaw on office desk. Sure, it makes everything sounds better, but once again, I am listening to music for the first time. Just as I was when I first received the Abyss.


----------



## MaggotBrain (Feb 17, 2019)

rickles said:


> Aside from the TC stuff...
> 
> Anyone compared the Hugo2 vs the Hugo TT (non TT2) using the Abyss Phi CC?  I find the Hugo2 does a decent job powering the Abyss, I would hazard to say that it even sounds somehow more transparent, and with greater air around the different tracks of the song than using my balanced beta22, or v280.  Which is somewhat surprising to me.  It seems that the TT uses older technology than the Hugo2, but allegedly puts out more power.



I used to have the original Hugo and used it to power the Abyss from time to time for portable...well not exactly portable as in out of doors but, umm, putterable use, meaning being able to use the Abyss while cooking or doing household chores.. - I rarely did it because it definitely was underpowered (not to mention the unwieldy stock cables) and, most annoyingly, what I’ll term _Jim Gaffigan Syndrome (HOT POCKET!!!). _

Just this past week, though, a couple of relatively inexpensive purchases made using the Abyss usable while puttering around the house. I got an IFi Micro DSD Black Label, which has three major advantages over the Hugo.  1) WAY more power 2) A USB connection that is perfectly tailored for tethering to an iPhone via the CCK connection as opposed to USB spaghetti 3) Considerably cheaper. I also used a really inexpensive 5 foot $150 micro XLR headphone cable from BTG audio that I used for a modified ultrasone edition 8, slapped that on the Abyss and it was so much easier to get around.
Couple that with Qobuz now being available to use with 24 bit streaming on iPhone, I have found more ways to make mundane things more enjoyable.

Now that I’ve slathered praise on the Abyss, I shall join the chorus beseeching Joe for answers about the new drivers - is it possible to leapfrog the original gangster 1266 Abyss to the TC version driver?


----------



## mulder01

jlbrach said:


> i can barely use my dave with the phi but if you enjoyed it more power to you


Pun intended, I hope


----------



## x RELIC x (Feb 17, 2019)

rickles said:


> It seems that the TT uses older technology than the Hugo2, but allegedly puts out more power.



Nope. The original TT has largely the same power output as the Hugo1. The Hugo2 actually outputs more power than the original TT according to the designer.

The following quote from the Hugo1 thread:



Rob Watts said:


> ... Also Hugo TT share identical output stages, (except for increased bias current), same PSU voltage, same gain. So will deliver almost identical power for a given battery voltage.
> 
> Rob


----------



## FLTWS

In reading the CamJam 2019 NY thread I don't think the driver is new. From Abyss site:

https://abyss-headphones.com/products/abyss-ab-1266-phi-headphone

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
*Brand New!!!*

*The Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC is the apex of the headphone world.* 

Many years of development and research went into the making of what many consider the finest sounding headphone money can buy. Patent-pending ultra thin speakers deliver a most natural sound to your ears. 

_*This latest version boasts our factory applied oven cured ceramic coating in a two tone luxury black color for a more sophisticated look. *_ Larger more comfortable ear pads improve the sound even further, in total taking the Phi's acoustic performance to even higher levels of sonic bliss.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 
I would expect the words "new" or "Improved", "changed", or "refined", in that "Patent-pending" sentence. TC may refer to the new finish coatings or process as someone previously mentioned, or maybe Joe is just messing with us.
If so, maybe we just "took the bait" and hooked ourselves, LOL!

Bottom line for me; I listened to my Phi with CC pads (added after they were introduced), on Friday and it sounded very good to me. I plan to listen to them again today, I seriously doubt they will not sound  very good today because they don't carry the "TC" moniker. 

That being said, I do have 2 complete HP rigs, one upstairs and one downstairs, and I have entertained the thought of selling some of my other phones in the past to have one pair of Abyss for each rig......It's not easy being an audiophile, LOL!


----------



## negura (Feb 17, 2019)

There are comments in the impressions thread from NYC Canjam indicating this a revision with new drivers. The website doesn't seem to be updated properly?

The "TC" moniker I find so over the top.


----------



## JM1979

Autostart said:


> I know your post is referring to the Hugo 2 vs TT ( non TT2 ) so I cannot really help you as I have the Hugo TT 2 only and have not heard either of the mentioned above BUT..... before the TT 2 I had Yggy A1/A2>Woo Audio WA5>Tak300B which was a wonderful pairing with the Abyss 1266 Phi CC. One of the best I have heard. Well, that was until the Hugo TT 2 arrived. I quickly soldered up a dual 3 pin XLR to 4 pin XLR adapter to unleash the 18 watts @ 8 ohms directly out of the rear of the TT 2. I dont think anyone takes into consideration the dampening interconnects make. Even coming and going from DAC to AMP. The advantages I've gained being able to listen directly from my source AND with plenty of power has left my jaw on office desk. Sure, it makes everything sounds better, but once again, I am listening to music for the first time. Just as I was when I first received the Abyss.



I don’t mean to rain on your parade but I’m pretty sure I read a post from Rob Watts in the Hugo TT2 thread that said you should not plug headphones into those balanced rear outs.


----------



## erik701

Looks like new *TC* model has newly designed *66mm* speaker drivers (previous version *63mm*). I expected this step. Joe was able to fit AB-1266 driver into Diana chassis, so I expected that AB-1266 will be improved with new drivers, or that Abyss will release completely new model, with newly designed drivers.


----------



## FLTWS

erik701 said:


> Looks like new *TC* model has newly designed *66mm* speaker drivers (previous version *63mm*). I expected this step. Joe was able to fit AB-1266 driver into Diana chassis, so I expected that AB-1266 will be improved with new drivers, or that Abyss will release completely new model, with newly designed drivers.



Well then, we just need to wait for comparisons of 63 to 66.


----------



## negura (Feb 17, 2019)

A couple of interesting findings. Diana Phi has a different, lower, impedance than Abyss Phi CC. Yet same size as original Diana?! Is it really the same driver as Abyss Phi CC?

What am I missing:

https://eu.abyss-headphones.com/col...roducts/diana-abyss-thinnest-luxury-headphone
€3.450,00

Large *63 mm *patent-pending planar speakers deliver stunning sound
Impedance 40 ohms
https://eu.abyss-headphones.com/collections/abyss-headphones/products/abyss-diana-phi
€4.395,00

Large *63 mm* patent pending Phi planar drivers with ultra-low mass diaphragm for extremely fast bass impact and subtle lifelike details to music

Impedance 32 ohms
Abyss Phi CC:
*Impedance:* 42 ohms nominal (non-reactive)


----------



## matthewhypolite

Patiently waiting on feedback if this is actually a new driver or not.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Guys, it’s definitely positively a new driver.  I tried it and talked to the creators about it.  Faster, higher resolution.  More details coming soon.


----------



## Torq

So now it's just a case of waiting to see if an upgrade is available, or if this is only available as a new headphone.  And then if you can upgrade, what it costs and what the timing looks like.

If an upgrade is available, if it's no more expensive than the Phi upgrade was, and isn't a multi-month wait, then assuming I can tell the difference (and sufficiently prefer the new version), I expect I'll upgrade.  Beyond that, I'll probably just pass on this one and wait for whatever the next iteration is.

If no upgrade is available, I'll likely wait for the first revision of the TC before I jump on it.


----------



## ra990

JM1979 said:


> I don’t mean to rain on your parade but I’m pretty sure I read a post from Rob Watts in the Hugo TT2 thread that said you should not plug headphones into those balanced rear outs.


Not true...he said this about the DAVE, but has said on multiple occasions that the TT2 XLR outs can be used for headphones if the power is needed. He just doesn't think any headphones need that much power and that the single out is sufficient


----------



## fredfung28

erik701 said:


> Looks like new *TC* model has newly designed *66mm* speaker drivers (previous version *63mm*). I expected this step. Joe was able to fit AB-1266 driver into Diana chassis, so I expected that AB-1266 will be improved with new drivers, or that Abyss will release completely new model, with newly designed drivers.


I think abyss 1266 is always using 66mm, just checked multiple website 63mm is only talking about diana.


----------



## fredfung28

I tried Dave in a shop with the CD player of DAVE together, the output from DAVE is not capable to drive 1266 very well in my point of view. The sound is not very satisfying with DAVE and abyss 1266, details, imaging is not up to expectation. Also, the soundstage and naturality is not good enough too.


----------



## ufospls2

JM1979 said:


> I don’t mean to rain on your parade but I’m pretty sure I read a post from Rob Watts in the Hugo TT2 thread that said you should not plug headphones into those balanced rear outs.



You can use the rear XLR outputs to drive headphones without a problem. Rob Watts has said it is possible.



erik701 said:


> Looks like new *TC* model has newly designed *66mm* speaker drivers (previous version *63mm*). I expected this step. Joe was able to fit AB-1266 driver into Diana chassis, so I expected that AB-1266 will be improved with new drivers, or that Abyss will release completely new model, with newly designed drivers.



AB-1266 has always used 66mm drivers. The Diana Phi uses a 63mm driver.


----------



## jlbrach

I was at canjam and spoke to joe...it is for sure a new driver and there is no upgrade planned because as it was explained to me there is too much that would have to be replaced


----------



## erik701

ufospls2 said:


> AB-1266 has always used 66mm drivers. The Diana Phi uses a 63mm driver.



Joe exactly said: "_Also to clear up confusion on the naming/drivers, the current Diana uses the same tech as the AB-1266 Phi, but it's not the exact same driver, different materials, etc. This new Diana Phi has the same drivers as in the AB-1266 Phi CC, *sans a few millimeters to make it fit*._" So yes, you may be right. I never thought about actual name AB-1266 to have some reference to driver size. Then there has to be something new, regarding new TC model, other than driver size (maybe new material, new shape, reduced weight....).


----------



## ufospls2 (Feb 17, 2019)

erik701 said:


> Joe exactly said: "_Also to clear up confusion on the naming/drivers, the current Diana uses the same tech as the AB-1266 Phi, but it's not the exact same driver, different materials, etc. This new Diana Phi has the same drivers as in the AB-1266 Phi CC, *sans a few millimeters to make it fit*._" So yes, you may be right. I never thought about actual name AB-1266 to have some reference to driver size. Then there has to be something new, regarding new TC model, other than driver size (maybe new material, new shape, reduced weight....).



1266 stands for the year they were conceived/introduced etc.. - 2012, and the driver size - 66mm. If I remember correctly anyhow.

And yes, if it is a new driver, I would assume it's something like materials or weight.


----------



## ufospls2

jlbrach said:


> I was at canjam and spoke to joe...it is for sure a new driver and there is no upgrade planned because as it was explained to me there is too much that would have to be replaced



Thats rough for anyone who just bought a pair of CC's thinking they were the final iteration of the 1266. oof.


----------



## Torq

Well, if there's no upgrade path then that's one less thing to think about.

Now it'll come down to getting a proper side-by-side audition (i.e. in my rig, at home, not at a show or meet) of the new version and then deciding if it's something I want to upgrade to.  While I have faith that Joe wouldn't release a new model if it wasn't an improvement over the prior one, if it somehow wasn't then it wouldn't be the first time I've heard an "improved" model of something and found I liked the older version(s) better.

My AB-1266 Phi CC won't be going anywhere until after that.

Definitely curious to hear the new model!


----------



## Savage4

I’m sure another version will be introduced after tc within a year. Abyss is worse than Apple which at least offers trade-in discount


----------



## galacticsoap (Feb 17, 2019)

Thanks for that update @jlbrach. I really feel for the Headfi'r a few pages earlier who pulled the trigger in December. I'm holding out hope that Joe & Abyss can come to a solution for him.

I'm still rocking the OG Abyss 1266's as I just haven't had the opportunity to ship them up to Joe for the CC upgrade. It's something I've been on the cusp of doing for months. As soon as these TC's hit my dealer I'll be heading down their with my TT2 & BluMk2 for a comparison.

I have to admit, the quantum of improvement over the OG 1266's would have to be substantial as I have a concern that within 6 to 9 months there will be another iteration/improvement to the TC's.

I'd like to think that as owners of a $US4K+, non-portable, power hungry planar, one puts away when guests come around for dinner, members of this thread represent ONE OF THE thinnest slivers of customer niches in Headfi. I would assume that to be profitable in this niche Abyss would need to leverage both the products performance AS WELL AS the brand loyalty that such a small group of customers would bring to the table. I feel, up to the announcement of the TC's, they've done this well, iterative innovation and improvement is the core strategy for any orgnanisation that aspires to be around in another 10 years. I feel with the upgrade path offered to 1266 owners for driver improvements Abyss got the balance spot on by way of pushing the envelope and taking their customers along for the ride.

To not offer an upgrade, and release such a substantial improvement since the Phi CC announcement, Abyss appear to have either mis-read the community reaction, or considered it, and chosen to move ahead regardless based on the strength of the TC's. A bold move. i'm looking forward to evaluating them.

I just hope such a substantial deviation from the methods that have served both Abyss as a company, and us, as customers, so well over the years doesn't impact them adversely, because I love their products.


----------



## jlbrach

I was told that the upgrade would cost in the vicinity of 2K making it problematic ,in addition i was told as mentioned that the upgrade would be too big a process!...I too find the constant upgrades of products we pay so much for to be less than ideal. The truth is there is a limited market for these uber high end HP's and we the consumer can change the entire situation by our own behavior. That said, i am one of the worst offenders of the need to always have the latest and greatest and am in no position to criticize anyone


----------



## Delacaff

ufospls2 said:


> Thats rough for anyone who just bought a pair of CC's thinking they were the final iteration of the 1266. oof.


My case. If no upgrade is possible at a fair price, this will make me seek. I will no longer buy Abyss.


----------



## FLTWS

fredfung28 said:


> I think abyss 1266 is always using 66mm, just checked multiple website 63mm is only talking about diana.



That's what I was thinking too!


----------



## mulder01

Hmm still not quite sure if I believe it yet...  If it is a new driver, surely everyone in the queue for the driver upgrade at the moment will pull out... Who is going to want to spend $1500 to upgrade to a superseded model?


----------



## iledi

I received my new AB1266 Phi CC 2.5 weeks ago. I felt upsad about this. JPS Didn’t tell me new version come very soon during the purchase, it is only 3 weeks ago. UPSAD


----------



## lamaslamas (Feb 17, 2019)

I always thought CC stranded for Ceramic Clothing.
Maybe it will be a different (T....) Clothing,
I guess that a different clothing would be also too difficult to upgrade, hence Joe's statement..


----------



## ra990

Guys, we can be in denial as much as we want, but there are enough people who have reportedly spoken with Joe at CanJam and said that they're brand new, faster, higher resolution drivers. Let's just accept it, the Abyss 1266 Phi gets even better.


----------



## m17xr2b

Any word on pricing?


----------



## ra990

m17xr2b said:


> Any word on pricing?


Same price, I believe. $5k


----------



## negura (Feb 17, 2019)

https://abyss-headphones.com/collections/abyss-headphones/products/abyss-ab-1266-phi-headphone
ABYSS AB-1266 PHI TC HEADPHONE

$4,995.00

There's a € site too.

https://eu.abyss-headphones.com/collections/abyss-headphones/products/abyss-ab-1266-phi-headphone
€5.450,00

Brand New!

The Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC is the apex of the headphone world.


----------



## Drewligarchy

If the TC's are purchased online, anyone have an idea how long for these to ship?

Listened at CanJam today, and I thought they were great. I've always been put by the fit - but after trying myself - it wasn't a big deal.

I listened out of a WA33 in the Woo room which was ridiculously good. I don't want to buy an $8k amp + the headphones. Also listened out of the XI Eleven.

It may have been the tracks I listened to but the Xi seemed brighter.

I have a v281 and Dave. Any comments on synergy with each from users?

Finally, I can't find it anywhere on there site. Are all sales final - or is there a return policy offered? Like the opportunity to get to know a headphone for a bit in my system.


----------



## matthewhypolite

If there's an upgrade available to TC I'm all good. Just send my cans in for the upgrade. But if it requires a new purchase, that's rough.

I just purchased the Susvara. My wallet needs a rest. But the thought of a better sounding phi cc, ... I can't even....


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Feb 17, 2019)

Sorry for catching you guys off guard. A chain of events created the need for us to introduce this new AB-1266 Phi TC model sooner rather than later. We have developed a new driver for the AB-1266.

Keep in mind the Phi drivers have been out for about 2 years now, the last CC revision was an aesthetic and leather change. Not to mention I think we're all ready for this. The new TC drivers bump up resolution and bass definition and speed quite a bit. The clarity level to the source is quite stunning.

Given all the subtle changes that culminated into the latest CC version, there's unfortunately no economically feasible way to upgrade earlier original (OG) or Phi models to TC. The CNC machining detail, interior space, coatings, and leathers are all different than in prior frame sets, and cumulatively it all effects the sound. It would be detrimental to the abilities of these new TC drivers to do this any other way,.

We need to get the pipeline flowing with these new TC drivers and headphones. In a few months we’ll work with those who may have been very recently affected by the change on a case by case basis.  Anyone on the Phi upgrade list will be contacted directly. After that we can work on potential upgrades for those who own the CC version.

Please PM or email me with any concerns. Thanks!

BTW, CanJam NYC 2019 was awesome!


----------



## Zhanming057

I had a good amount of time with the TC and while they are unquestionably better the Abyss Phi's, I did not find the difference so large as to incentivize me to upgrade personally. Abyss has reasonably good resale value and the introduction of a new model is not something that bugs me personally, although I can understand how people always want the latest and shiniest. 

The Diana Phi's I did really like and I felt was a great portable companion option to the 1266 Phi. @Joe Skubinski Thanks for giving me the showroom deal on the Diana's!


----------



## Joe Skubinski

No problem 


It's definitely difficult to grasp the full capabilities of the TC at a show, ambient noise floor is too high.


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Feb 17, 2019)




----------



## lambdastorm (Feb 17, 2019)

Heard these today at CanJam. Eric was very helpful and answered all my questions about drivers, resonance control, amp pairing and stuff.

For those who are interested, here's some pics of the TC driver I took at JPS booth, fresh from the oven. They look the same as any regular Abyss except the Total Awareness and Ceramic Coating marking.














I spent about half an hour with the TCs. As @Joe Skubinski said the showfloor is a bit too noisy for any proper evaluation, but from what little I can hear they still retained that traditional Abyss sound: bold and lively. Tonality is about the same as the Phi and OG. You still have to leave a gap between the earpads and your ear to get that bass bloom.

While the Abyss TC impresses, the Diana Phi surprises. I was frankly caught off guard by how close these manage to get to the Abyss with a much slimer form factor. The demo is hooked up to a XIAUDIO Broadway connected to a Mytek DAC II. I played some Goa Trance on it expecting to be underwhelmed but boy, do these deliver! They look like a lady's headphone yet the sound is anything but lady-like: big, bold, with huge bass just like its bigger brother. The earpads doesn't completely seal around my ears, and I suspect that gap has something to do with its bass. Anyways, fantastic headphone. Wish I had the money.


----------



## Zhanming057

The Diana Phi/1266 Phi TC pile at the JPS booth  Not sure if this was the pair I took home though. Both are lovely headphones!


----------



## ufospls2

Zhanming057 said:


> The Diana Phi/1266 Phi TC pile at the JPS booth  Not sure if this was the pair I took home though. Both are lovely headphones!



Now that is an epic pile of gear. 

Can't wait to hear the TC someday!


----------



## matthewhypolite

Anyone interested in my Abyss Phi with CC pads PM me. 

Got my eye on the TC.


----------



## phase0

I'm disappointed that there is no upgrade path from the Phi to TC. That doesn't invalidate in any way all the enjoyment I have (and I'll continue to enjoy). I have my eyes on some other things which would put an immediate purchase of the TC out of reach for now (or at least I have some self control to wait until RMAF)...

@Drewligarchy I very much enjoy the Abyss Phi w/ a V281 and I know others have. I do not have a Dave. It seems like a lot of Dave owners are looking for the cleanest most transparent HP amp and I see the GSX-Mk2 recommended a lot.


----------



## ra990

@lambdastorm the pictures you posted aren't showing.


----------



## lambdastorm

ra990 said:


> @lambdastorm the pictures you posted aren't showing.


How about now?


----------



## ra990

lambdastorm said:


> How about now?


----------



## FLTWS

Anybody know what this piece of XI gear is?


----------



## simorag

FLTWS said:


> Anybody know what this piece of XI gear is?



It could be their new SAGRA DAC.

https://store.theevolutionofsound.com/products/eleven-audio-xiaudio-sagra-dac


----------



## Delacaff

FLTWS said:


> Anybody know what this piece of XI gear is?



This is XI Audio DAC, named SagraDAC. It is based on R2R ladder conversion platform. R2R circuit provided by Soekris, all the rest is XI Audio. This model is already for sale on JPS Labs website. Not a lot of reviews. The only ones that I read are in japanese (Phileweb.com). Google translation from japenese to french was a poem. Maybe is the translation in english better.


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Feb 18, 2019)

I think if you own a Phi CC, there is no rush to upgrade to TC or to be upset about the higher performance model. The reason is TC has so much resolution, it demands your gear (DAC & amp) to be at the same level or higher. There aren’t many gear on the market today that could maximize the performance of TC. IMHO, enjoy your Phi CC while you wait for the electronics to catch up.

I have OG 1266 and Diana Phi. My gear can barely match the performance of these two. If I upgrade to TC today, it would be like owning a Lamborghini rolling on all-season tires.


----------



## phase0

@HiFiGuy528 what gear do you think is up to the performance to match the TC? (Besides the WA33 which everyone needs and several people said was a best in show combo at canjam)


----------



## Torq

HiFiGuy528 said:


> I think if you own a Phi CC, there is no rush to upgrade to TC or to be upset about the higher performance model. The reason is TC has so much resolution, it demands your gear (DAC & amp) to be at the same level or higher. There aren’t many gear on the market today that could maximize the performance of TC. IMHO, enjoy your Phi CC while you wait for the electronics to catch up.
> 
> I have OG 1266 and Diana Phi. My gear can barely match the performance of these two. If I upgrade to TC today, it would be like owning a Lamborghini rolling on all-season tires.



I'm hoping my M-Scaler -> DAVE -> Woo WA234 MONO MkII (w/ Takatsuki 274B with either WE300B or 2A3 monoplates etc.) chain is sufficiently up to the task of getting the best out of the TC ...

I'm not unduly affected (nor in anyway upset) by the release of the new TC model.  Definitely interested to hear it and will buy a new one, or upgrade, as the situation warrants.  And in the mean time will continue to enjoy my AB1266 Phi CC.  So this is mostly just me having a bit of a chuckle ...


----------



## ra990

I was pretty blown away by the Hugo TT2 driving the 1266 Phi from their balanced outs. Can't imagine how great it would be with an MScaler + TT2 combo.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Torq said:


> I'm hoping my M-Scaler -> DAVE -> Woo WA234 MONO MkII (w/ Takatsuki 274B with either WE300B or 2A3 monoplates etc.) chain is sufficiently up to the task of getting the best out of the TC ...
> 
> I'm not unduly affected (nor in anyway upset) by the release of the new TC model.  Definitely interested to hear it and will buy a new one, or upgrade, as the situation warrants.  And in the mean time will continue to enjoy my AB1266 Phi CC.  So this is mostly just me having a bit of a chuckle ...



I'll be running the TC from Msb Premier with fetmo clock into WA33 EE with NOS tubes. 

Got the yddgrasil now, but plan to snipe the msb by year end.


----------



## ufospls2

matthewhypolite said:


> I'll be running the TC from Msb Premier with fetmo clock into WA33 EE with NOS tubes.
> 
> Got the yddgrasil now, but plan to snipe the msb by year end.



Dude your set up just keeps getting better and better. Truly jealous. Would love to hear it some day!


----------



## jlbrach

that may be the new dac product that is being offered for use with the amp


----------



## simorag (Feb 19, 2019)

About the release of the TC, I must confess that after the initial disappointment (the kind of emotional reaction "my toy is not the best of the shop anymore"), I am not looking at the positive side … i.e. that the AB-1266 is hopefully going to improve further!

Of course, I hope that the guys who just bought the CC and those in line for the Phi upgrade will find some kind of fair agreement with JPS Labs, otherwise it could be a serious hit to the credibility of the company and their customer care.

In my case, I own the Phi since December 2017, and I love them so much that I have basically built my whole rig around them (and the DAVE), investing in the Formula S + Powerman, CC Pads, aftermarket cables etc.

That said, everything can be improved, and if JPS Labs has worked on the areas where I feel I the Abyss Phi is not perfect (namely some treble brightness), I am ready to put my AB-1266 Phi in the classifieds and start saving for the TC!

By the way, I just received the Superconductor HP cable. Glorious to look at and to touch / feel, will post some impressions against my DHC Prion4 soon.


----------



## matthewhypolite

simorag said:


> By the way, I just received the Superconductor HP cable. Glorious to look at and to touch / feel, will post some impressions against my DHC Prion4 soon.



Please do.


----------



## Delacaff

simorag said:


> About the release of the TC, I must confess that after the initial disappointment (the kind of emotional reaction "my toy is not the best of the shop anymore"), I am not looking at the positive side … i.e. that the AB-1266 is hopefully going to improve further!
> 
> Of course, I hope that the guys who just bought the CC and those in line for the Phi upgrade will find some kind of fair agreement with JPS Labs, otherwise it could be a serious hit to the credibility of the company and their customer care.
> 
> ...



Same for me: I own Formula S + Powerman to pair with Phi CC. I look forward to having your feed-back re: the Superconductor since the Amp is very straightforward and clean, and don’t help to tame the treble brightness


----------



## FLTWS (Feb 19, 2019)

I've had my Phi since 12/17 also (CC'd when the pads released in mid 2018), with SE SC IC (from Yggy) to Formula S + Powerman + SC HP Cable  (took advantage of 15% off Black Friday last Nov big time), It's a treat for me, even though I still dabble with the tubes in a lot in my other gear and I do like the Phi with my LYR3 and the right tube. (Someday I'm going to buckle under and most likely acquire one of the Woo's, LOL).

Together they are a very synergistic combination for my listening tastes which are mostly classical and more older (AAD and ADD) recordings than new (DDD) and it starts at the recording, the sound will never be any better than the quality of the source. And I'm CD's only, nothing exotic and found the Yggdrasil gave me the best sound from my  CD's (I have not entertained Dave, just too much, $25 grand for a player and DAC and then I might still need an amp - it's not about loud it's about dynamic swings and reaching that sweet spot volume wise which varies from one recording to the next.

So for me the key is getting the best sound I can with standard 2 channel CD's (and I'm HP's only, no quality 2 channel speakers in use). The Abyss for me, with all the other trimmings I have, gives me a more reasonable result compared to what I hear in the concert hall. I find most recordings to be on the bright side compared to the "cleanness" of how highs (or bass for that matter) get reproduced in the concert hall. No boom, no sizzle, the ease with which sounds comes through in the concert hall is well beyond any reproduction system I've yet heard. Maybe its the true 0.000000... distortion factor, LOL.

I find this combination to be very satisfying sounding especially since adding the SC HP cable. I currently have the stock cable which is clean, clear, accurate, crisp maybe a touch dry (these traits maybe to a fault but by a very small amount), the Dana Cable Lazuli Ultra is warmer, richer in bass and midbass, maybe a bit more high frequency energy balance than "I" prefer. but the SC is so different from either. At first I thought it was rolled off in the highs but maybe that's because I'm conditioned to or used to highs being a bit stronger than I prefer by virtue of the norm in so called "Hi-Fi" sound over the 5 decades I've been an audiophile. The SC with the Abyss is a different sound for sure. It has been mentioned that the SC HP excels in voices, and it does that in in spades, very believable. The SC HP is definitely worth auditioning with the Abyss, I found it to be something completely different than the usual or what I expected. Not being big on "bright", I listen for a chain of components that can deliver a sound that is  transparent, transiently alive, and capable of handling dynamic shifts with a sense of ease.

It is also nice to have a change of pace with a couple of HP cables.

The Formula S is also a nice piece, Class A, dual mono back to the separate Powerman (I think), and an SE design that is a bit different from most of the HP amps I own and have auditioned which tend to be FET, MOSFET and / or Tube Hybrid designs in that XI Audio went with Bi-Polars and it's sounds very good to my ears, very resolving. Many of the amps I own have balanced in/out available, but I'm finding a lot more goes into a good sounding component than whether it's balanced or SE. Although I really do dislike the standard 1/4 inch plugs and much prefer XLR's even if the signal is SE. They just seem to hook in better and make less noise, pop or click wise, when inserted or removed, they just feel more substantial.

Eventually I'll audition the TC side by side and hear what the what is for myself.

Others, I'm certain, may hear things differently and in many cases differences can be so small, but that SC HP cable is a difference maker, "if" one likes the resulting sound, so YMMV..


----------



## GU1DO

simorag said:


> About the release of the TC, I must confess that after the initial disappointment (the kind of emotional reaction "my toy is not the best of the shop anymore"), I am not looking at the positive side … i.e. that the AB-1266 is hopefully going to improve further!
> 
> Of course, I hope that the guys who just bought the CC and those in line for the Phi upgrade will find some kind of fair agreement with JPS Labs, otherwise it could be a serious hit to the credibility of the company and their customer care.
> 
> ...


Also please do comparison with the Stock cable, Thanks.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

I just got the Superconductor cable for the Diana Phi.  My initial take is that it does provides a fuller and more refined sound vs the stock cable (as you would expect).   In particular the bass is more textured and there is more quantity overall.  I need to spend more time with it and will report back.


----------



## deuter

The sensitivity is 88db/mW, when we look at amp specs they read 1Watt per channel etc?

Not sure what peer is required by the Abyss as I hear it’s very power hungry.


----------



## mulder01

It's not too bad really.
Go here http://www.digizoid.com/headphones-power.html and type in 47ohms and 88db/mw and that'll give you some idea.  Ideally you'll want SOME headroom though. 
I have used them off a portable player that could only go up to the 'fairly loud' region but it didn't really get the most out of them.  I think if you have your eye on an amp specced as 1w into 50 ohms, it should be ok.


----------



## buke9

The Cavalli Liquid Carbon does a very nice job with them also on high gain and balanced.


----------



## astrostar59

There is more than power capability to consider as we know. My LCD4s came alive on more powerful amps, but went into the stratosphere on the Aries Cerat SET headphone / speaker amplifier. Chalk and cheese.


----------



## m17xr2b (Feb 21, 2019)

I've never seen anyone post more pictures across multiple threads for a single component. I get it, you got a nice amp, a lot of us do.


----------



## joseph69

It'a all good. 
He's proud of his gear and just showing it off by all rights, which I find is perfectly fine.


----------



## phase0

I was curious how much one of those things cost (Aries Ceret). I couldn't find it listed anywhere. I'm sure expensive but how expensive? Anyways I sold my tube amp last summer and going through a smaller footprint attempt phase which is always solved by spending more money on more expensive stuff than you had previously...


----------



## galacticsoap (Feb 22, 2019)

Apparently the Aries Cerat Kassandra DAC (which weighs in at 120kg's) retails for 82,000 Euros?

EDIT: Just did some research on the Genus - it has a retail price of $AU19,000.


----------



## mulder01

astrostar59 said:


> There is more than power capability to consider as we know. My LCD4s came alive on more powerful amps, but went into the stratosphere on the Aries Cerat SET headphone / speaker amplifier. Chalk and cheese.


Yes it comes down to design and components and personal taste of course, but he just wanted to know the figures.  Just handy to have some sort of guide when looking.
Schiit Magni puts out more power than a Woo WA5-LE, but given the choice, I think I know which amp most 1266 owners would go for...


----------



## phase0

galacticsoap said:


> EDIT: Just did some research on the Genus - it has a retail price of $AU19,000.


Thanks! Yea that's pricey. I'll check it out if I run into it at RMAF. My audio budget this year is already spent.


mulder01 said:


> Schiit Magni puts out more power than a Woo WA5-LE, but given the choice, I think I know which amp most 1266 owners would go for...


Interesting. I had the WA5 for 3 years. Glorious amp and great synergy with the Abyss. Really enjoyed that amp. I think where I sit right now in my mind best HeadFi tube amp would be a WA33 but I haven't heard some of the other options people like so my scope is narrower for lack of experience/exposure to things...


----------



## m17xr2b

joseph69 said:


> It'a all good.
> He's proud of his gear and just showing it off by all rights, which I find is perfectly fine.


If I'm not mistaken I believe he's a dealer and sells them for cerat. So not just an average Joe.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Feb 22, 2019)

Just joined the Abyss club and placed a pre-order for the Abyss Phi TC! After hearing them at CanJam I was hooked!

Been scouring the thread for amp recommendations but would love thoughts given my preferences. I listened on the WA33 and the XI Formula and both sounded great, but preferred the Woo. Woo seemed a little bit warmer which complemented the Abyss well - it's also at least 2x the price.

At first, I'll be using the Abyss with my Dave direct and in combo with Violectric V281. Obviously would love if the synergy with the Abyss was strong. I know people have mentioned a loss of transparency putting V281 in front of Dave. I can notice it slightly with my LCD4, however, overall prefer the V281 to Dave direct with the LCD 4. That said - both are top notch.

Moreover, I think the V281 is the perfect match for the LCD4 - so it might be a challenge to find an amp that plays with both phones ideally.

I also have a Auralic Taurus MKII which Im currently not using and can try.

I know I'm getting ahead of myself a bit. Need some head time with the TC once it comes in with my current amps. That said - anyone have recommendations for something that sounds like the WA33 that's not the WA33? I'd prefer SS to Tubes, but will consider Tubes - just not in the market for an 8k amp (yet)

Either way, I'll probably wait some time to do an amp upgrade - but curious what today's best are for slightly different sound signatures. I am asking mostly in regards to the CC, because there hasn't been a lot of TCs out in the wild yet. Not looking for a stop gap as I already have the V281 - but TOTL. That said, doesn't necessarily equate to price.

Who knows, maybe I'll love it with the V281 and that will be it.

I am curious about Schiit's offerings. I tried the Lyr 3 with the Meze and that was the best I heard it; even better than Dave direct. Anyone use the Mojnir with the Abyss?


----------



## boozcool

simorag said:


> About the release of the TC, I must confess that after the initial disappointment (the kind of emotional reaction "my toy is not the best of the shop anymore"), I am not looking at the positive side … i.e. that the AB-1266 is hopefully going to improve further!
> 
> Of course, I hope that the guys who just bought the CC and those in line for the Phi upgrade will find some kind of fair agreement with JPS Labs, otherwise it could be a serious hit to the credibility of the company and their customer care.
> 
> ...




I wouldn't hold your breath for JPS to offer some kind of fair agreement for those who just bought the CC or in line for the Phi upgrade

Just my two cents, but the TC seems a bit like snake oil considering they release "new" versions every 10 months or so 

Buying any JPS cans brand-new seems like a losing game if your goal is hold on to something that retains it's value

At this point I'd assume their goal is to make as much money as possible by fueling up the hype train, choo-choo!


----------



## Joe Skubinski

You're a guy who seems to hold onto things so don't understand all this negativity. 
Very unfair assessment mun not having heard our latest products and see in person our accomplishments. We work hard at this, and with running a company on only 3 models I'd hope you would understand and give us a bit more latitude.

Did you happen to notice how other brands hold their value? From what I've seen lately our products have exceptional resale value and sell within days if not hours of hitting the market. 
It's real out here man, we were busy as schitt [literally] at CanJam NYC, and the positive energy was amazing! Hope one day to get the chance to stop by .




boozcool said:


> Just my two cents, but the TC seems a bit like snake oil considering they release "new" versions every 10 months or so.
> Buying any JPS cans brand-new seems like a losing game if your goal is hold on to something that retains it's value


----------



## Torq

boozcool said:


> I wouldn't hold your breath for JPS to offer some kind of fair agreement for those who just bought the CC or in line for the Phi upgrade



Unless the process has changed since I did my Phi upgrade, anyone inline for it would just drop out if they no longer wanted them.  It wasn't something I had to pay for, put a deposit on, or even give credit card information for, until my spot in the queue came up (a several month wait), _after _which I paid and had my upgrade back about a week later.  When my spot came due I could have either passed, or just emailed JPS and dropped off the list ahead of that.



boozcool said:


> Just my two cents, but the TC seems a bit like snake oil considering they release "new" versions every 10 months or so



I don't know about the "snake oil" part, but I don't think it's every 10 months, and maybe the timing is different for the Diana (I've not really paid any attention to that), but the original AB-1266 were out in 2013.  The AB-1266 Phi were announced at the end of March in 2017.  The Phi CC, the pads for which could be bought separately, were available as of July 2018.  So prior to the TC, it was almost four years for the first upgrade, and the second was 15 months later and simply required a pad swap.



boozcool said:


> Buying any JPS cans brand-new seems like a losing game if your goal is hold on to something that retains it's value



I don't know about others, but my goal in buying headphones is to listen to music.  They're not an investment.  They lose value the second you open the box.  I don't buy them worrying about resale value or depreciation.  I'll admit I would think twice if I was faced with a situation in which I had just purchased a flagship product, and then seen the manufacturer introduce a new version a few months later while keeping the old version available and slashing its new price.  That's not what's happening here, though.


----------



## Torq

mulder01 said:


> Schiit Magni puts out more power than a Woo WA5-LE



Where are you getting that idea from?

Woo quote the current WA-5LE as being able to push 7500mW into 60 ohms.  Magni 3 can do 1300mW into 50.


----------



## syn959

Drewligarchy said:


> Just joined the Abyss club and placed a pre-order for the Abyss Phi TC! After hearing them at CanJam I was hooked!
> 
> Been scouring the thread for amp recommendations but would love thoughts given my preferences. I listened on the WA33 and the XI Formula and both sounded great, but preferred the Woo. Woo seemed a little bit warmer which complemented the Abyss well - it's also at least 2x the price.
> 
> ...




Congrats! I don't have a Dave or Abyss yet, but perhaps Benchmark AHB2 or HPA4 might work for you to retain the magic out of your Dave. I read a few positive comments from people on this thread regarding them and Dave.


----------



## AbyssHeadphones

Made the front cover of The Absolute Sound!


----------



## jlbrach

I was fortunate enough to have a very nice conversation with rob watts of chord dave fame about numerous issues while at canjam and one that came up was the use of or need to use an amp with the dave and headphones....rob has consistently suggested that the best way to use the dave with HP's was direct in the overwhelmingly majority of cases but he acknowledged that in the case of the abyss and the susvara that an amp is probably necessary for optimal performance due to the nature of the HP's.....i myself have gone back and forth regarding the Phi and dave direct or with an amp and have to come to believe that while there is always a loss of transparency with an external amp ,the positive addition of grunt, space and bass makes the experience of the phi and dave better with an amp....i recognize that many disagree and i do not dispute others subjective feelings....in the case of the likes of the LCD-4z or the utopia or new empyrean and so many others an amp is not necessary


----------



## Drewligarchy

jlbrach said:


> I was fortunate enough to have a very nice conversation with rob watts of chord dave fame about numerous issues while at canjam and one that came up was the use of or need to use an amp with the dave and headphones....rob has consistently suggested that the best way to use the dave with HP's was direct in the overwhelmingly majority of cases but he acknowledged that in the case of the abyss and the susvara that an amp is probably necessary for optimal performance due to the nature of the HP's.....i myself have gone back and forth regarding the Phi and dave direct or with an amp and have to come to believe that while there is always a loss of transparency with an external amp ,the positive addition of grunt, space and bass makes the experience of the phi and dave better with an amp....i recognize that many disagree and i do not dispute others subjective feelings....in the case of the likes of the LCD-4z or the utopia or new empyrean and so many others an amp is not necessary



@jlbrach - Do you like the V281 with the Phi as much as you like the V281 with the Susvara with Dave as source?


----------



## jlbrach

I think the 281 is a wonderful product and works well with both


----------



## Zhanming057

A picture of my new Diana Phi's


----------



## Drewligarchy

Here is a stupid Abyss question:

Is it possible to lie down on a pillow, say on the couch with these headphones? I occasionally like to do that. Given that they work by suspension and not clamping, does it work - or will it screw up the fit?


----------



## mulder01

Torq said:


> Where are you getting that idea from?
> 
> Woo quote the current WA-5LE as being able to push 7500mW into 60 ohms.  Magni 3 can do 1300mW into 50.


My, that is quite the discrepancy.  From the user manual:


 



Drewligarchy said:


> Here is a stupid Abyss question:
> 
> Is it possible to lie down on a pillow, say on the couch with these headphones? I occasionally like to do that. Given that they work by suspension and not clamping, does it work - or will it screw up the fit?


Depends on the pillow - if it's soft and your head sinks into it, it pushes the cups forward and catches the back of your ear.  A thinner/harder/couch cushion might be okay

I am with the others on the v281 - give it a go - you might be pleasantly surprised.  Don't let the price tag fool you.  
Do you think that you don't lose any of the Dave's transparency with the WA33?


----------



## Drewligarchy (Feb 22, 2019)

mulder01 said:


> My, that is quite the discrepancy.  From the user manual:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the advice. I've noted a lot of helpful stuff from you across a number of threads.

I am not incredibly concerned losing a little bit of transparency from the Dave. I haven't hear a headphone more transparent to the Dave than my 009, and that obviously needs to go through an amp, and I like the LCD4 through the v281.

Mostly concerned about synergy from a tonality standpoint - and maintaining that amazing soundstage of the abyss. That really blew me away. Will certainly be trying it with the V281 - and will only pursue other amps, at some point, if I find it lacking. While I haven't heard them together - the sound of the v281 and the sound of the Abyss should complement each other well for my tastes. Unsure about soundstage. Ultimately won't really know until I plug it in - but see you are a fan of the v281 and have used it extensively with the Abyss and trust your judgement.

Appreciate the thoughts on the pillow as well! I'm sure I'll figure something out with a backrest or something.


----------



## Torq

mulder01 said:


> My, that is quite the discrepancy.  From the user manual:



Aha!

Those would be the ratings for the “Low” power setting.


----------



## JLoud

And whatever you do, don't switch to "HI" power with your headphones plugged in. Your ears or headphones may not survive. When they say HI power they mean it.


----------



## Alarickc

Joe Skubinski said:


> You're a guy who seems to hold onto things so don't understand all this negativity.
> Very unfair assessment mun not having heard our latest products and see in person our accomplishments. We work hard at this, and with running a company on only 3 models I'd hope you would understand and give us a bit more latitude.
> 
> Did you happen to notice how other brands hold their value? From what I've seen lately our products have exceptional resale value and sell within days if not hours of hitting the market.
> It's real out here man, we were busy as schitt [literally] at CanJam NYC, and the positive energy was amazing! Hope one day to get the chance to stop by .



As one of the people who recently bought a 1266 CC, I'd like to say that Abyss is indeed taking care of me. I reached out to Joe and I'll be swapped out for a TC. Customer service doesn't get better than that in my opinion. A problem came up, and they've rectified it. What more can you ask for? JPS/Abyss stood behind me as a customer, and I'd recommend them to anyone else looking for headphones in this price range.


----------



## mulder01

Torq said:


> Aha!
> 
> Those would be the ratings for the “Low” power setting.


Doesn't the LE only have the low setting (headphone amp section)?  The hi setting is the speaker amp section which can also be used for headphones but is in WA5 only?
Not fully on top of the Woo catalogue...


----------



## ra990 (Feb 22, 2019)

Alarickc said:


> As one of the people who recently bought a 1266 CC, I'd like to say that Abyss is indeed taking care of me. I reached out to Joe and I'll be swapped out for a TC. Customer service doesn't get better than that in my opinion. A problem came up, and they've rectified it. What more can you ask for? JPS/Abyss stood behind me as a customer, and I'd recommend them to anyone else looking for headphones in this price range.


This has been my experience as well. They have always taken care of me and often done above and beyond what they needed to. I had purchased the Abyss Phi several weeks before CC was announced and I got a CC after getting in touch without any hassle (despite the $500 price increase associated with the CC).

There was also the time I accidentally stabbed one of the drivers while unpacking a rental 1266 phi from the Cable Co and got in touch with Joe, fessing up to it and asking how much it would be for repair. It was taken care of for free and sent back to me to evaluate. That was definitely not what I was expecting. Driver pictured below, warning NSFL!


----------



## Zhanming057 (Feb 22, 2019)

mulder01 said:


> Doesn't the LE only have the low setting (headphone amp section)?  The hi setting is the speaker amp section which can also be used for headphones but is in WA5 only?
> Not fully on top of the Woo catalogue...



There used to be (WA5 V1) "low", "high" and "spk/k1k" settings where only the last one engages the full 8 watts at 110 ohms. The new V2 version has three Hi/Lo switches, and when you select "Hi" on all three, the full 8 watts can be delivered through (and only through) the XLR jack. This applies to both the LE and the full WA5, the main difference is that the LE uses cheaper components (unless you pay for the $1,200 upgrade kit) and does not have speaker taps on the back. However the circuitry will fully support 8 watts into 110 ohms, which was originally the recommended power output for the AKG K1000.

I ran a WA5 with the 1266 phi's for a while and have always preferred using the maximum amount of output that the amps offers. The "regular" hi setting is fairly anemic for the 1266 phi's, and is more suitable for something like the Utopia or Ether Flow.

I should add that while something like the Magni might be rated higher at a certain impedance level, the 300b tubes in the WA5 are very current-heavy and they will exert far better control over low-sensitivity planars than cheap solid state amps.


----------



## Savage4

Alarickc said:


> As one of the people who recently bought a 1266 CC, I'd like to say that Abyss is indeed taking care of me. I reached out to Joe and I'll be swapped out for a TC. Customer service doesn't get better than that in my opinion. A problem came up, and they've rectified it. What more can you ask for? JPS/Abyss stood behind me as a customer, and I'd recommend them to anyone else looking for headphones in this price range.


Hello, would you mind sharing how the swapping would work?


----------



## JLoud

The LE version had hi/lo settings. The wa5 has speaker/hi/low setting. Roughly 8 watts from hi and 1.5 from low.


----------



## JLoud

The v2 wa5 le will output 8 watts from both xlr and se jacks. This is different than v1. It is my main amp and I’m looking at manual as I type.


----------



## lambdastorm

Has anyone noticed the stainless steel mesh covering the drivers having some imperfections? The mesh covering my left driver already have a wide gap. I guess its more of a cosmetic issue than a practical one but still, dust particles getting inside the driver is terrifying to even think about. 



ra990 said:


> This has been my experience as well. They have always taken care of me and often done above and beyond what they needed to. I had purchased the Abyss Phi several weeks before CC was announced and I got a CC after getting in touch without any hassle (despite the $500 price increase associated with the CC).
> 
> There was also the time I accidentally stabbed one of the drivers while unpacking a rental 1266 phi from the Cable Co and got in touch with Joe, fessing up to it and asking how much it would be for repair. It was taken care of for free and sent back to me to evaluate. That was definitely not what I was expecting. Driver pictured below, warning NSFL!


You can actually peek inside the driver thru that punctured hole.


----------



## Alarickc

Savage4 said:


> Hello, would you mind sharing how the swapping would work?


I reached out to Joe via PM on here and he said they'd contact me to swap it out in a few months when they have some more TCs available (seemed reasonable to me). This is happening because I requested it, it's not automatic so you'd have to reach out.


----------



## Savage4

Alarickc said:


> I reached out to Joe via PM on here and he said they'd contact me to swap it out in a few months when they have some more TCs available (seemed reasonable to me). This is happening because I requested it, it's not automatic so you'd have to reach out.


Ah thank you! Did he mention about the cost?


----------



## Alarickc

Savage4 said:


> Ah thank you! Did he mention about the cost?


I was told that it would be at no cost since I had bought it recently and directly.


----------



## bearwarrior

Alarickc said:


> I was told that it would be at no cost since I had bought it recently and directly.



Same situation as you. Looking forward to TC.


----------



## AbyssHeadphones

Steve Guttenberg reviews Diana Phi...
https://www.cnet.com/news/extreme-high-end-headphones-are-big-and-bulky-except-this-one/


----------



## simorag (May 13, 2019)

*Re: Abyss Phi cable upgrade (part 2, including the Superconductor HP – part 1 here)*




 

*Background*

Several months ago, after a prolonged at-home trial of the Danacable Lazuli Reference and DHC Prion4 (see *this post*), I started searching for a 2nd hand Prion4 which I eventually bought from a fellow head-fier.

At the time, I did not include the JPS Superconductor HP (just SC from now on) in my evaluation because I were not able to find a practical way to get a loan here in Italy. Also, I was scared about the price.

However, I always remained curious about what the best JPS Labs cable for the AB-1266 could bring to the table, and you know what happens to an audiophile when the itch starts 

A couple of weeks ago I indulged myself with the Superconductor HP cable for my Abyss Phi, and after about 60 hours of burn-in (both of the cable and of my brain / ears) I thought it was time to share some impressions here.

The most significant change of my rig from the time of my previous headphone cable comparison has been the addition of the Hugo M Scaler to my DAVE, which had a profound effect on my system, by making it darker, smoother, fuller, more natural sounding and less fatiguing. Actually, the effect has been so transformational that some of the notes I took in my previous A/B of the Prion4 vs. the stock JPS cable are not applicable anymore to my current configuration (see later on).
This is to remark how also A/B comparisons on single components / accessories are still very system dependent. As usual, YMMV.

*Looks and Ergonomics*

Ergonomics was the main reason I started looking for a replacement of the stock cable last year. It is much longer than I need, and I don’t really like its plasticky feeling when handling it, and its cheap looks.



Instead, I love the look and feel of both DHC and SC, where the DHC (also because of the color combination I have) is flashier and high-endish with its double braided design, and the SC is more elegant and austere but with outstanding details.

The ergonomics of the SC is easily the best. This cable is incredibly light and flexible, has no microphonics and is smooth to the touch.

*Overall Sound Signature*

The stock cable is the most neutral of all the cables I tried, in my opinion. It excels at dynamics, has great speed and visceral impact. Its bass response is full without being loose. Midrange is a bit dry and treble has some grain.

The Prion4 is a very transparent and detailed cable, with a liquid, extended treble and an effortless presentation throughout the sound spectrum, the downside being a comparatively lean-ish sound. The airier and most resolving of the three, especially in the bass / sub-bass area.

The SC has the richest midrange, and adds some bloom in the bass region. It is the warmest and overall fullest sounding. To my ears, it does not trade-off too much transparency, except for some bleeding between the bass and the lower midrange and a slight veil at the top end.

Going by memory, the SC retains most of the warmth and opulence of the Lazuli Ref., with less noticeable loss in transparency that was the deal breaker for my tastes with the Dana.

*Imaging and Headstage*

The SC has the widest soundstage – by a slight margin –  and makes the Abyss sound grander than the other two.
The Prion4 is easily the best at imaging, due to its outstanding resolution and fine details retrieval.
The stock is no slouch, only the Prion4 clearly outperforms it, with its almost hyper-realistic focus capabilities.

*Frequency Response*

The bass of the SC is the thickest and more satisfying one. On the other hand, its added bloom trades for some articulation.

The Prion4 has a very tight and punchy bass. It goes as deep as the SC, but has shorter decay.

The stock has the most visceral impact, it makes the Abyss move air both very fast and strong. Overall, it is the most balanced bass, but the SC can put a larger smile on my face with the right tracks!

Midrange is where the SC does its magic, with a richer and more euphonic response, which is apparent on strings and especially on vocals.

The Prion4 midrange is the most articulated and clean one, very pleasing without being dry, where the stock sounds slightly recessed and sterile in comparison.

The Prion4 treble seems to have no extension limits and it is as liquid as it gets with the Abyss Phi. The Superconductor comes second with a sweeter, but also more veiled, presentation, and the stock falls short comparatively with a (slightly) harder and less refined top end.





*Music Genres Match*

Vocals are a highlight of the SC, especially female, where the added meat to the bone and harmonic richness make the singer stand out with more physicality.

Classical (orchestral) is a tight match between the stock and Prion4 especially when large scale dynamics and crowded fortissimos are key. Tonality-wise, the SC presents sweeter strings and very engaging double bass and tympany sections. In general, orchestral music is a joy to listen to with the Abyss, they are very, VERY good at this regardless of the cable.

With Chamber and Jazz I slightly prefer the Prion4 because of its immaculate transparency, that makes spatial cues, ambience effects and plankton retrieval very obvious. However, the SC sounded more real with some recordings where the violin came out a bit strident with the Prion4 and stock.

Piano is a clear win for the Superconductor to my ears. Low end harmonics structures are richer and the luminous midrange is very seductive with this instrument. Prion4 wins at transients and resolution.

Rock is where the stock performs best, because of its very fast and impactful response. However, its relative harshness in the upper midrange can be distracting with vocals and with bad recordings. The slightly more forgiving character of the SC can be beneficial in these cases.





*Conclusion*

At around 2k USD street price, it is clear that the Prion4 or Superconductor cable upgrade is even beyond the decreasing returns definition (you can buy a 2nd hand Utopia for that money!), as, regardless of all the effort in finding adjectives, qualificators and differentiators in what I have written above, we’re dealing with nuances and changes of flavors here - at least to my ears. And the stock cable is a good cable.

That said, with a resolving enough system, the right recordings and entering critical listening mode, these nuances become apparent and have a cumulative, definite beneficial impact on how much I enjoy listening to music with the AB-1266 Phi.

With the M Scaler in place, the improvement has become even easier to detect than when I did my previous comparison, and once heard it would be difficult to go back to the stock now.

Between the Prion4 and Superconductor, I cannot decide what I like best at this point. Both bring very special – different – things I really enjoy, and I believe I need more listening time with the SC to really make my mind.

However, it is hard to me to justify having both, and I believe I will end up putting one of the two in the classifieds in the future.


----------



## JLoud

Having been eyeing an Abyss for awhile now. But in order to fund the purchase I should probably part with some other headphones. Wondering how Abyss owners feel about which headphone is the most similar. I currently have Utopia, LCD-4, Sony MDR-Z1R, and Senn. HD800S in my main rig. Are any of these similar enough that I wouldn't really miss them if I sold it to help fund the purchase? I like having different phones for different music and moods. Thus the current variety. Opinions are appreciated.


----------



## galacticsoap

@JLoud d I'd sell the Utopia & HD800S as IMHO I feel easily exceeds the technical traits that define both of these components i.e. resolution, dynamics, soundstage width and depth and musicality. If you don't value having a closed back, I'd sell the Sony as well. Leaving you with the LCD-4 with it's more textural and fleshed out mid-range as counter-point to the outright sensory assault (in the best way) that is the Abyss.

@simorag - What a wonderful comparison/review. Thank you for taking the time to do that. How long are your SC & Prion 4 Cables?


----------



## melb0028

I have been auditioning the Abyss Phi on loan from the Cable company and am absolutely amazed at this headphone! Amazing accomplishment by Joe and the folks at Abyss - just great. I have placed an order for the Abyss Phi TC - no higher compliment in my book. I keep shaking my head - just beautiful... 
I would not be disappointed at all with the Phi version its all I could ask for in terms of sound quality, but I look forward to any improvements with the Phi TC. Thanks so much Joe and Abyss for your great work!


----------



## matthewhypolite

JLoud said:


> Having been eyeing an Abyss for awhile now. But in order to fund the purchase I should probably part with some other headphones. Wondering how Abyss owners feel about which headphone is the most similar. I currently have Utopia, LCD-4, Sony MDR-Z1R, and Senn. HD800S in my main rig. Are any of these similar enough that I wouldn't really miss them if I sold it to help fund the purchase? I like having different phones for different music and moods. Thus the current variety. Opinions are appreciated.





galacticsoap said:


> @JLoud d I'd sell the Utopia & HD800S as IMHO I feel easily exceeds the technical traits that define both of these components i.e. resolution, dynamics, soundstage width and depth and musicality. If you don't value having a closed back, I'd sell the Sony as well. Leaving you with the LCD-4 with it's more textural and fleshed out mid-range as counter-point to the outright sensory assault (in the best way) that is the Abyss.
> 
> @simorag - What a wonderful comparison/review. Thank you for taking the time to do that. How long are your SC & Prion 4 Cables?



Agreed what this recommendation. 

I'd sell the Utopia for sure. The Sony is not in the league of the abyss so keep it only if u want a closed back. Senn can also go. Lcd4 is diff enough, to keep around and plays in that space. 

As for the cable review earlier, let me get reading on that


----------



## rickles

What is the all around best integrated source + amp for the Abyss Phi?  Assuming the Hugo TT 2, or are there others I'm unaware of?


----------



## ufospls2

rickles said:


> What is the all around best integrated source + amp for the Abyss Phi?  Assuming the Hugo TT 2, or are there others I'm unaware of?



 Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD is one that comes to mind : )


----------



## Zhanming057

ufospls2 said:


> Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD is one that comes to mind : )



The 430 HAD's DAC is not great at all, I found it shockingly bad compared to something like an Alpha DAC 2. 

The TT2's DAC is pretty good but the front jack is like the HPA4 - a bit too linear and harsh for the Abyss to sound their best.

The Bartok's DAC is fantastic but the front jack is weak, a bit too weak for the Abyss. 

If you forced me to choose, I'd say the TT2 is your best bet but none of them is as good as a proper DAC on a stand-alone amp.


----------



## ufospls2

Zhanming057 said:


> *The 430 HAD's DAC is not great at all,* I found it shockingly bad compared to something like an Alpha DAC 2.
> 
> The TT2's DAC is pretty good but the front jack is like the HPA4 - a bit too linear and harsh for the Abyss to sound their best.
> 
> ...



Agreed re: the 430HAD dac section.

However, there aren't many other all in one units that I can think of that power the Abyss well. The 430HA is a good amp, not the best, but good, and does the job well. If I remember correctly, @Joe Skubinski recommends it highly in terms of pairing for the Abyss. 

I haven't heard the Bartok but it strikes me as being over priced, and less capable in terms of all around features and usability than the TT2.


----------



## ra990

I can vouch for the TT2 balanced outs doing justice to the Abyss. They'll put out somewhere around 7 watts into the Abyss, I believe...and you get that clarity and transparency of the DAC directly. Lots of meat on the bones with the TT2.


----------



## phase0

As a brand new Hugo TT2 owner I'm crazy for it (Of course it's the best all in one)! I listened for a long time last night and didn't think the SE was underpowered or harsh. I'm going to get an XLR converter cable to try the balanced outputs. Right now I'm thinking my amp+dac costs about the same as the TT2... My ultimate plan is to sell my Yggy and V281 but it's too soon. Anyways +1 for HTT2 and there's a potential for new-toy-exuberant-blindness but right now I can't say enough good things about the TT2.


----------



## ra990

Yea, even the TT2's single ended will put out close to 2 watts into the Abyss, but I found that I needed more head room for certain albums (Muddy Waters - Folk Singer 24/192, for example) and the XLR outs provide more power than I'll ever need.


----------



## Zhanming057

ufospls2 said:


> Agreed re: the 430HAD dac section.
> 
> However, there aren't many other all in one units that I can think of that power the Abyss well. The 430HA is a good amp, not the best, but good, and does the job well. If I remember correctly, @Joe Skubinski recommends it highly in terms of pairing for the Abyss.
> 
> I haven't heard the Bartok but it strikes me as being over priced, and less capable in terms of all around features and usability than the TT2.



I do like the 430HA as an amp, the DAC part is the problematic part - and all else equal, I would take the TT2 if I had to run a single unit.

The Bartok is really, really good for the utopia and ether flow - there's just better control for those cans compared to the Dave or TT2. But that weak headphone jack really bugs me. It almost justifies itself as a $10k DAC, though.


----------



## rickles

Expanding this to smaller DAC and Amp setups, do I get better performance than the TT2 or 430HAD?


----------



## simorag (Feb 24, 2019)

JLoud said:


> I currently have Utopia, LCD-4, Sony MDR-Z1R, and Senn. HD800S in my main rig. Are any of these similar enough that I wouldn't really miss them if I sold it to help fund the purchase?



I had HD800S for about a year, and have heard extensively Utopia and LCD-4 in my setup, together with the Abyss. I do not miss the HD800S at all, in my opinion the AB-1266 phi does everything much better then the Senn. (perhaps with the exception of some plankton details retrieval). HD800S were super-comfy, but I have no issues with the Abyss fit and comfort, so also no regrets there.
As for Utopia and LCD-4, they do different things compared to the Abyss. Utopia was not to my taste (I like big soundstage and voluptuous bass), but with unlimited budget I would get an LCD-4, because it is very complementary to the brighter Abyss, with its laid-back and luscious signature.



galacticsoap said:


> @simorag - What a wonderful comparison/review. Thank you for taking the time to do that. How long are your SC & Prion 4 Cables?



Thanks! Both my SC and Prion4 are 4'' (1.2m), they match perfectly my listening station.



rickles said:


> Expanding this to smaller DAC and Amp setups, do I get better performance than the TT2 or 430HAD?



Indeed the TT2 is a spectacular all-in-one solution, and would give you the chance of driving nearly all TOTL headphones, IEMs, and even reasonably sensitive loudspeakers. But, if you are like most audiophiles here (including me), you will end up getting the M Scaler as well pretty soon, and with VERY good reason, coming to a 10kUSD / 2 box setup.
In this respect (10k and 2 box) you have a lot of options.
But I see it difficult to match the TT2 (about 5k) with a separate DAC + amp (plus quality interconnects) suitable for the Abyss, unless you do some very lucky hunting in the used market.


----------



## mulder01

I don't blame you for asking for alternatives to the TT2.  Whoever designs the look of Chord products is one tasteless mother------


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I find it odd that people seems to accept cars to be updated annually. The average decent new car is over $20K. The depreciation in resale value (-30% or more) as soon as you transfer ownership from the dealer (before you drive it off the dealer lot) is acceptable to them. BUT when it comes to audio gear, they kick and scream saying the manufacturer is not doing their customers justice if they don't offered an upgrade path. To me, ABYSS products seems to have good resale value because they are not discounted when new. Take a look at the Marketplace section for yourself and see how much headphones in this class are going for.


----------



## rickles

I'm not loving the cable of the Abyss Phi.  Are there more flexible traditional "Y" shaped cables out there that aren't extremely expensive?


----------



## simorag

rickles said:


> I'm not loving the cable of the Abyss Phi.  Are there more flexible traditional "Y" shaped cables out there that aren't extremely expensive?



Take a look at:

www.norneaudio.com
www.lavricables.com
www.forzaaudioworks.com 
www.plussoundaudio.com
www.toxic-cables.co.uk

They all manufacture very nice cables with Y configuration and have great feedback from many head-fiers (not sure about Abyss owners, though). They have models in the <300USD range.


----------



## Zhanming057

simorag said:


> Take a look at:
> 
> www.norneaudio.com
> www.lavricables.com
> ...



Lavaricables make extremely stiff wires that I cannot recommend because of the ergonomics, and Toxic is dead as a company now.

The other 3 are good. Maybe check out the for sale section first? There's a couple 1266 phi cables on there for sale right now.


----------



## rickles

Zhanming057 said:


> Lavaricables make extremely stiff wires that I cannot recommend because of the ergonomics, and Toxic is dead as a company now.
> 
> The other 3 are good. Maybe check out the for sale section first? There's a couple 1266 phi cables on there for sale right now.



Thoughts on C3 Audio's cables?


----------



## Zhanming057

rickles said:


> Thoughts on C3 Audio's cables?



I have not used them in the past - but if you're concerned about wire quality, you could always buy your own chassis wire from Sonic Craft and use their connectors as well, and pay for labor from a cable builder. Good connectors will allow for a solid solder joint and bad ones will cause sound quality problems.


----------



## deuter

spkrs01 said:


> This has not been mentioned much so I thought :-
> 
> 
> "A quick guide to adjustments that *works perfectly for me *in making the Abyss sound sensational"
> ...



That’s a good explainatikn of adjusting the headphones, bookmarked


----------



## ufospls2

Hey Guys,

Is there anyone who reads this that is using the _original_ non phi AB-1266, with the CC ear pads? Do you find it was a substantial upgrade to the sound? Do the CC ear pads work well with the original non phi drivers? Thank for the help!!


----------



## lambdastorm

ufospls2 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Is there anyone who reads this that is using the _original_ non phi AB-1266, with the CC ear pads? Do you find it was a substantial upgrade to the sound? Do the CC ear pads work well with the original non phi drivers? Thank for the help!!


OG owner here rocking my Abyss OG with the CC pads. They are a pretty substantial upgrade indeed. First thing you'll notice switching from the OG pads to CC is the magnetic force, its much stronger than the original and you're going to have a hard time pulling these suckers off. But sound wise they definitely changed for the better. You get MUCH better bass definition and these bad boys squeeze out some extra few hertz down low. Mids also gains more clarity. The sound as a whole is more organized from top to bottom.


----------



## ufospls2

lambdastorm said:


> OG owner here rocking my Abyss OG with the CC pads. They are a pretty substantial upgrade indeed. First thing you'll notice switching from the OG pads to CC is the magnetic force, its much stronger than the original and you're going to have a hard time pulling these suckers off. But sound wise they definitely changed for the better. You get MUCH better bass definition and these bad boys squeeze out some extra few hertz down low. Mids also gains more clarity. The sound as a whole is more organized from top to bottom.



Thats what I wondered. Thank you for the reply man, real world impressions are awesome. Sounds like I might go that route if possible.


----------



## lambdastorm (Feb 26, 2019)

ufospls2 said:


> Thats what I wondered. Thank you for the reply man, real world impressions are awesome. Sounds like I might go that route if possible.


Your very welcome. But if I do recall right haven't you sold the headphone already?


----------



## ufospls2

lambdastorm said:


> Your very welcome. But if I do recall right didn't you sell the headphone already?



Yeah, long story. I had the original AB-1266, which I sold to purchase the AB-1266 Phi. I then ran into some _savage_ unexpected medical bills in the states, and had to sell all my gear to cover the expenses. I am slowly re-building my set up. I own the Diana Phi. I really want to add a pair of AB-1266 back to into my collection, but the AB-1266 Phi TC is out of reach at the moment. What I was thinking was the original, which is much cheaper on the used market nowadays, with the CC pads might be a good option. However, my Diana Phi might exceed the originals in terms of sonics. I'm not sure, and that is what I'm trying to work out : )


----------



## lambdastorm (Feb 27, 2019)

ufospls2 said:


> Yeah, long story. I had the original AB-1266, which I sold to purchase the AB-1266 Phi. I then ran into some _savage_ unexpected medical bills in the states, and had to sell all my gear to cover the expenses. I am slowly re-building my set up. I own the Diana Phi. I really want to add a pair of AB-1266 back to into my collection, but the AB-1266 Phi TC is out of reach at the moment. What I was thinking was the original, which is much cheaper on the used market nowadays, with the CC pads might be a good option. However, my Diana Phi might exceed the originals in terms of sonics. I'm not sure, and that is what I'm trying to work out : )


I see. I heard the Diana Phi at Canjam this year, definitely what I'd consider an improvement over the already excellent Diana. Bass wise they're not there with the Abyss yet but close.

Oh and I also hope whoever bought your Phi is still enjoying it. What a killer price you offered him.


----------



## deuter

lambdastorm said:


> OG owner here rocking my Abyss OG with the CC pads. They are a pretty substantial upgrade indeed. First thing you'll notice switching from the OG pads to CC is the magnetic force, its much stronger than the original and you're going to have a hard time pulling these suckers off. But sound wise they definitely changed for the better. You get MUCH better bass definition and these bad boys squeeze out some extra few hertz down low. Mids also gains more clarity. The sound as a whole is more organized from top to bottom.


Link to where I can get the pads?
I heard the phi drivers were inferior to original so not keen on changing them.


----------



## matthewhypolite

deuter said:


> Link to where I can get the pads?
> I heard the phi drivers were inferior to original so not keen on changing them.



Here's a link to the pads : https://abyss-headphones.com/products/new-ab-1266-cc-replacement-ear-pads

Also the phi drivers being inferior to the original is untrue. I've owned both and the phi is superior in every way to the OG.


----------



## mulder01 (Feb 27, 2019)

.


----------



## deuter

matthewhypolite said:


> Here's a link to the pads : https://abyss-headphones.com/products/new-ab-1266-cc-replacement-ear-pads
> 
> Also the phi drivers being inferior to the original is untrue. I've owned both and the phi is superior in every way to the OG.



What I meant was the phi was more polite, if that makes sense.


----------



## matthewhypolite (Feb 27, 2019)

deuter said:


> What I meant was the phi was more polite, if that makes sense.



If by more polite you mean: better mids, better treble, better controlled and more refined bass without loosing any of its power and roar. If by polite you mean having the ability to effortlessly convey massive gobs of energy when needed whiles still being able to extract all of the micro details. If by polite you mean a more refined and overall enjoyable experience that still excels in the genres that suit the abyss whiles opening itself up to other genres the OG was not spectacular at?

If so then yes, the Phi is more polite


----------



## ra990

matthewhypolite said:


> If by more polite you mean: better mids, better treble, better controlled and more refined bass without loosing any of its power and roar. If by polite you mean having the ability to effortlessly convey massive gobs of energy when needed whiles still being able to extract all of the micro details. If by polite you mean a more refined and overall enjoyable experience that still excels in the genres that suit the abyss whiles opening itself up to other genres the OG was not spectacular at?
> 
> If so then yes, the Phi is more polite


You and the Phi get a room already!


----------



## Zhanming057

matthewhypolite said:


> If by more polite you mean: better mids, better treble, better controlled and more refined bass without loosing any of its power and roar. If by polite you mean having the ability to effortlessly convey massive gobs of energy when needed whiles still being able to extract all of the micro details. If by polite you mean a more refined and overall enjoyable experience that still excels in the genres that suit the abyss whiles opening itself up to other genres the OG was not spectacular at?
> 
> If so then yes, the Phi is more polite



Agreed. Among all of the big cans I've tried since I got into the hobby, there's only been a handful of genuine "wow" moments for me. The K1000 was the first one, and the Abyss Phi was one of the more recent ones. The original Abyss 1266 is quite good, but it didn't wow me in the same way.


----------



## matthewhypolite

ra990 said:


> You and the Phi get a room already!


----------



## Sage Encore

ufospls2 said:


> Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD is one that comes to mind : )


Agreed, I am using the Moon for mu Phi CC. An excellent power unit and HP combo, loads of power, neutral and the Moon just gets out of the way without adding any coloration to the music letting the Phi CC do it magic. Highly recommended.


----------



## innocentblood

the first time I fell in love with the abyss 1266 phi was last year during can jam Singapore. the cans were hooked up via the SC cables to the WA33. the source was Chord Blu DAVE. it was such a huge WOW moment for me that i bought the cans a week later. at that time when I was auditioning them, I didn't even realise there was a "technique" to wearing the cans properly in terms of adjusting the frames and having the pads barely touch the sides of your face. I still think it's kinda amusing to have these cans just "float" at the top of your head.

today I managed to get a pre-loved SC cable. the cable build is just so lovely to the sight and touch. 

I'd like to know if the SC cables can be used with any other headphones? did any of you make adapters so that you can maximise the investment on the SC cables to be used with your other TOTL cans?


----------



## lambdastorm (Feb 28, 2019)

deuter said:


> Link to where I can get the pads?
> I heard the phi drivers were inferior to original so not keen on changing them.


It really comes down to preference. The Phi does have more micro-details and resolution but FR wise they're not as fun. I did a head-to-head comparison between the Phi and my OG 4 months after the Phi release, and it makes me appreciate my OG even more. Sure it doesn't have as much resolution, nor does it offer the same level of transparency but bass punches harder and has more grunt to it. The overall sound is much more V-shaped on the OG and that's what gets me bobbing my head. The Phi in comparison sounds much more neutral and HD800-like, in addition, the bass that once rumbles my jaw is gone. The quality's still there, but the quantity gets reduced considerably in an effort to sound more neutral. So back to thecableco. they went.

I understand that most users here appreicate the increased focus and resolution the Phi update brings to the already excellent Abyss, but I won't trade mine for anything. Not a Phi, not a TC (heard these at Canjam btw, awesome cans as per abyss tradition). Not even if you hand me 3 grands with a TC in hand. My pair is one of the earliest pairs produced and even the 'MADE IN USA' engraving is missing. I'd like to imagine these are made by aliens.


----------



## MasonStorm

Has anyone ordered and received the new Phi TC?  If not, does anyone have insider information as to when they will ship (Joe...if you're following)?


----------



## mulder01

MasonStorm said:


> Has anyone ordered and received the new Phi TC?  If not, does anyone have insider information as to when they will ship (Joe...if you're following)?


I think the TC is the only version you can buy now. 
Though it seems to be out of stock on their website unless you buy the "complete"


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The TC started shipping this week. 
The ABYSS website should allow an order (not every cable combination is available, for example the 'Lite' version does not allow customization)


----------



## deuter

Joe Skubinski said:


> The TC started shipping this week.
> The ABYSS website should allow an order (not every cable combination is available, for example the 'Lite' version does not allow customization)



Joe I know you might be amp agnostic but wanted to know what are some of the amp recommendations to drive the 1266 without breaking the bank.

Happy to PM if you want to discuss privately.


----------



## GU1DO

lambdastorm said:


> It really comes down to preference. The Phi does have more micro-details and resolution but FR wise they're not as fun. I did a head-to-head comparison between the Phi and my OG 4 months after the Phi release, and it makes me appreciate my OG even more. Sure it doesn't have as much resolution, nor does it offer the same level of transparency but bass punches harder and has more grunt to it. The overall sound is much more V-shaped on the OG and that's what gets me bobbing my head. The Phi in comparison sounds much more neutral and HD800-like, in addition, the bass that once rumbles my jaw is gone. The quality's still there, but the quantity gets reduced considerably in an effort to sound more neutral. So back to thecableco. they went.
> 
> I understand that most users here appreicate the increased focus and resolution the Phi update brings to the already excellent Abyss, but I won't trade mine for anything. Not a Phi, not a TC (heard these at Canjam btw, awesome cans as per abyss tradition). Not even if you hand me 3 grands with a TC in hand. My pair is one of the earliest pairs produced and even the 'MADE IN USA' engraving is missing. I'd like to imagine these are made by aliens.


I have the same model without the Made in USA engraving  LOL i didnt know it was made by aliens 
i am having a blast with it ,  i cant imagine how any improvement could be done on this model , it just sound so good , 
the bass is overwhelming , i would appreciate less bass , but i am sure it will loose some of its magic , hmmm 
its good that you have the same model , everybody here have the Phi model , does the CC pads improve  ? i dont want extra bass , what do you suggest ?


----------



## Drewligarchy

I bought a TC direct and it arrives tomorrow!

Will be sure to share impressions. While I have a lot of cans I can compare to - it's the first abyss I've heard - so I, unfortunately, won't be able to speak to differences from previous versions.


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Feb 28, 2019)

I'm pretty damn picky with electronics, they all sound different to me and I've heard so many signatures over the years that I've pretty much narrowed down what I like, and don't like. Given this I don't like making public recommendations as everyone is in a different place on the ladder.

That being said, trade shows and I like the Eleven Audio (XIAUDIO) Formula S and Woo WA33 for the 1266. The battery XIAUDIO Broadway is brilliant with Diana Phi, glven you have a balanced source or portable. 
If you don't have a DAC yet the Mytek Brooklyn is a very good start and versatile as DAC's go and has a plenty potent headphone output, particularly if you bridge the 2 output jacks. AC cables and interconnects matter, pay attention to these, we of course use JPS Labs.


I'll be playing around with a new toy or two this weekend on all three generations of AB-1266 and the Diana's, still setting up...









deuter said:


> Joe I know you might be amp agnostic but wanted to know what are some of the amp recommendations to drive the 1266 without breaking the bank.
> 
> Happy to PM if you want to discuss privately.


----------



## lambdastorm

GU1DO said:


> I have the same model without the Made in USA engraving  LOL i didnt know it was made by aliens
> i am having a blast with it ,  i cant imagine how any improvement could be done on this model , it just sound so good ,
> the bass is overwhelming , i would appreciate less bass , but i am sure it will loose some of its magic , hmmm
> its good that you have the same model , everybody here have the Phi model , does the CC pads improve  ? i dont want extra bass , what do you suggest ?


If you don't want anymore bass than the stock pads already offer, you might want to steer clear of the CC. For me the CC pads widens the soundstage quite a bit and injects some warmth to the otherwise V-shaped Abyss OG. Bass sounds more well-rounded and has some more meat to the bone if that makes sense. 


Joe Skubinski said:


> I'm pretty damn picky with electronics, they all sound different to me and I've heard so many signatures over the years that I've pretty much narrowed down what I like, and don't like. Given this I don't like making public recommendations as everyone is in a different place on the ladder.
> 
> That being said, trade shows and I like the Eleven Audio (XIAUDIO) Formula S and Woo WA33 for the 1266. The battery XIAUDIO Broadway is brilliant with Diana Phi, glven you have a balanced source or portable.
> If you don't have a DAC yet the Mytek Brooklyn is a very good start and versatile as DAC's go and has a plenty potent headphone output, particularly if you bridge the 2 output jacks. AC cables and interconnects matter, pay attention to these, we of course use JPS Labs.
> ...


Hope the OG can hold its own


----------



## bearwarrior

Joe Skubinski said:


> I'm pretty damn picky with electronics, they all sound different to me and I've heard so many signatures over the years that I've pretty much narrowed down what I like, and don't like. Given this I don't like making public recommendations as everyone is in a different place on the ladder.
> 
> That being said, trade shows and I like the Eleven Audio (XIAUDIO) Formula S and Woo WA33 for the 1266. The battery XIAUDIO Broadway is brilliant with Diana Phi, glven you have a balanced source or portable.
> If you don't have a DAC yet the Mytek Brooklyn is a very good start and versatile as DAC's go and has a plenty potent headphone output, particularly if you bridge the 2 output jacks. AC cables and interconnects matter, pay attention to these, we of course use JPS Labs.
> ...



The setup makes people jealous. I wonder how the Benchmark HPA4 performs compared to XIAUDIO S. Very curious.


----------



## mulder01

GU1DO said:


> I have the same model without the Made in USA engraving  LOL i didnt know it was made by aliens
> i am having a blast with it ,  i cant imagine how any improvement could be done on this model , it just sound so good ,
> the bass is overwhelming , i would appreciate less bass , but i am sure it will loose some of its magic , hmmm
> its good that you have the same model , everybody here have the Phi model , does the CC pads improve  ? i dont want extra bass , what do you suggest ?


Bass is the easiest thing to vary with fit.  Have you played around with the pads much?


----------



## syn959

bearwarrior said:


> The setup makes people jealous. I wonder how the Benchmark HPA4 performs compared to XIAUDIO S. Very curious.



I'm curious too. I just purchased HPA4 and had it for a few days. It's super clean, transparent, and smooth sounding. Very much a wire with gain.


----------



## GU1DO (Mar 1, 2019)

*Just recieved this message from JPS Labs 

bad decision follow another one earlier ,, JPS should take care, in its management lately*

*Now i am not a happy customer for sure , i would pay extra to get the new driver .*

*"Given production has changed to the new AB-1266 Phi TC headphone and drivers, we will no longer offer driver upgrades for the original AB-1266. Please email us if you have any questions."
*


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Sorry we couldn't accommodate your request from last month.


----------



## Zhanming057

syn959 said:


> I'm curious too. I just purchased HPA4 and had it for a few days. It's super clean, transparent, and smooth sounding. Very much a wire with gain.



The HPA4 is cleaner and more polite, the Formula S feels like a stronger amp, is more dynamic but a bit less well controlled especially at low output power levels. The optimal load on the Formula S seems to be a bit higher than on the HPA4, despite the amps having the same nominal output (6w @16 ohms). The HPA4 feels to me ever so slightly underpowered for the Abyss Phi, but I'm not sure if that's just a feature of its somewhat unique hybrid design. 

Both are good amps. That said, for a strong, solid state pairing to the 1266 phi, my go-to choice in this price range is the Mass Kobo 394.


----------



## lamaslamas

Regarding amp pairing, which one of these "budget" amp would you pair with the abyss?
My options so far are the lyr 3 or the audio gd nfb1 and the cavalli liquid platinum  + mojo dac


----------



## FLTWS

My LYR3 with a good tube works with my Phi very well. I have no experience the other two you mention but Cavalli amps have always had a good reputation.


----------



## GU1DO (Mar 1, 2019)

Joe Skubinski said:


> Sorry we couldn't accommodate your request from last month.


I bought it last month because i thought i will upgrade it ,, i got screwed like other people who bought the phi last few weeks.
btw i bought mine new from a store !!


----------



## mulder01

GU1DO said:


> I bought it last month because i thought i will upgrade it ,, i got screwed like other people who bought the phi last few weeks.
> btw i bought mine new from a store !!


You bought an original version from a store in the last month??  For you to think that you'll "just upgrade it" for USD$1500 when the RRP was the same as a new phi CC, the dealer must have given you a SIGNIFICANT discount off the original RRP to sell the last of the old stock.  Same way a car dealership sells out the last of an old model for a discounted price because people know it's been replaced, but are willing to accept an old model for a discounted price.  
Nothing wrong with the original either.  I never upgraded mine, and another member was saying on the previous page that he prefers the original over all other models.
Be happy that you got a cheap new Abyss (any version) and enjoy the music!


----------



## ufospls2

GU1DO said:


> I bought it last month because i thought i will upgrade it ,, i got screwed like other people who bought the phi last few weeks.
> btw i bought mine new from a store !!



Maybe you could buy the CC Pads? That would probably be a significant upgrade in itself : )


----------



## melb0028

After coming off a trial session from cable company with the Abyss Phi I was blown away and decided to order the Phi TC. I've been listening to the new Phi TC headphones which are only about 24 hours broken in so not even close to full potential. Well holy moly these headphones are truly spectacular in every way. Beautiful, expressive, tight and deep bass, no treble harshness, amazing detail - (I've heard new things in recordings I've listened to hundreds of times over the years), amazing soundstage. Most importantly they just sound beautiful and bring the music to life. I think this headphone is truly a monumental accomplishment on the part of Joe and Abyss. Wow oh man wow! Highly recommended.


----------



## MasonStorm

I totally agree with melb0028.  I've had the original Abyss AB-1266 since late 2016 and have been loving it.  I also did the week-and-a-half trial of the Phi in 2017 via The Cable Company, didn't like the Phi, and enjoyed my original Abyss.  Today I received the Phi TC, and I too sense only improvements.....and it's not even burned in yet!  It's more accurate, clear, yielding of microdetail (and for me, too, hearing brand new things in recordings I've already listened to many times over the years).....and yet it doesn't give up the bass slam the way the Phi did.  I always like to use Yosi Horikawa's track "Wandering" to test the bass of transducers.  Starting around the 31-second mark in that track, there's a wonderfully rich, low, shuddering drum that causes pleasant vibrations throughout your neck, shoulders and upper chest when listening to the original Abyss with the earpads properly tuned.  The 2017 Phi couldn't do that at all.  But the TC gave that to me today, with full slam/shudder, once I had properly dialed in the earpads.  I really thought I was going to find little difference with the TC compared to the original, but once again I've been shown a new level of sound enjoyment, having not known what I was missing.

Some superficial/subtle, non-audio differences compared to the original:  the TC's earpads are not fully symmetrical in my pair.  There's no way to align that stitching line marker on both sides by turning the earpads, since the holes that they possess (that go onto the magnetic protrusions from the baffles) are slightly off/asymmetric on my pair.  And whereas the forward bend of the original pair was limited to a few degrees (grabbing both sides of the metal part of the headband and tilting them simultaneously toward my face was limited to just a few degrees), it's just the opposite on the TC (bending back toward the rear of my head is the way that's limited to just a few degrees; I can bend them forward to almost 90 degrees).  This finding reprompted me to check that I had them on correctly, and indeed, they aren't backwards.  And finally, although the soft plastic/leather part of the headband appears to be the same size as that on my original Abyss, the TC's yields the earpads riding higher on my head than the original.  I'm hoping that is just due to the newness of the unit, and that it will stretch out a little with time, but I may have to ask Joe for one of the larger sizes of that part of the headband, for this TC model.

The TC is the best I've ever heard, and I'll probably end up trying to sell my original Abyss and Focal Utopia before long!  I wonder if even the mighty Sennheiser HE-1 can hold a candle to the TC.....


----------



## GU1DO

mulder01 said:


> You bought an original version from a store in the last month??  For you to think that you'll "just upgrade it" for USD$1500 when the RRP was the same as a new phi CC, the dealer must have given you a SIGNIFICANT discount off the original RRP to sell the last of the old stock.  Same way a car dealership sells out the last of an old model for a discounted price because people know it's been replaced, but are willing to accept an old model for a discounted price.
> Nothing wrong with the original either.  I never upgraded mine, and another member was saying on the previous page that he prefers the original over all other models.
> Be happy that you got a cheap new Abyss (any version) and enjoy the music!


*I got them for trying at home for 1 week ,, at the end of the week i contacted JPS and i got the approval for upgrade then i completed the purchase !!!
if i didnt get the approval , i would go for the phi edition directly ..
I hope you understand now.*


----------



## weasel1979 (Mar 3, 2019)

I feel sorry for you, I hope everything will work out.

As to the difference between the Phi CC and the original, I also like my Original 1266 more than 2 Phis CC I compared. The Phis CC to me sounded a little tamed in the treble and base and the stage seemed smaller. What I love most about the Abyss sound is that it sounds so big. Cinematic. I felt the Phi did reduce the vastness of sound in order to tame the treble and put forward the mids. I might be wrong about that. Also, I never had a problem with recessed mids, something many said was a weakness of the original. Maybe I got an exceptionally well sounding pair of the AB-1266? But I know I am not the only one who prefers the older model. Anyway, now with the TC, prices of the AB-1266 are likely to drop now, so Abyss will find a new group of owners!
Cant wait to listen to the new model though. All reviews and comments are highly anticipated!


----------



## Stereolab42

lambdastorm said:


> It really comes down to preference. The Phi does have more micro-details and resolution but FR wise they're not as fun. I did a head-to-head comparison between the Phi and my OG 4 months after the Phi release, and it makes me appreciate my OG even more. Sure it doesn't have as much resolution, nor does it offer the same level of transparency but bass punches harder and has more grunt to it. The overall sound is much more V-shaped on the OG and that's what gets me bobbing my head. The Phi in comparison sounds much more neutral and HD800-like, in addition, the bass that once rumbles my jaw is gone. The quality's still there, but the quantity gets reduced considerably in an effort to sound more neutral. So back to thecableco. they went.
> 
> I understand that most users here appreicate the increased focus and resolution the Phi update brings to the already excellent Abyss, but I won't trade mine for anything. Not a Phi, not a TC (heard these at Canjam btw, awesome cans as per abyss tradition). Not even if you hand me 3 grands with a TC in hand. My pair is one of the earliest pairs produced and even the 'MADE IN USA' engraving is missing. I'd like to imagine these are made by aliens.



This makes me feel better I was on the Phi upgrade list for 18 months without getting an offer... emotion/feel has always been more important to me than resolution/transparency. Wouldn't want to give up the punch of the OGs for anything.


----------



## deuter

Stereolab42 said:


> This makes me feel better I was on the Phi upgrade list for 18 months without getting an offer... emotion/feel has always been more important to me than resolution/transparency. Wouldn't want to give up the punch of the OGs for anything.



Given you have both the WA6 and the WA5, Have You tried the Abyss with the 6?
Iam keen to know whether it’s a good match.


----------



## MasonStorm

I agree that the Phi didn't punch as hard, or enough, compared to the OG.  I never had the chance to hear a Phi CC.  But this new Phi TC DOES punch just as hard, (IMO) once I found the right orientation of the ear pads, so it doesn't give up anything compared to the OG.  It just adds more detail/resolution/clarity, and reaches even deeper into the bass.  It actually gives me more of the low notes!


----------



## GU1DO

weasel1979 said:


> I feel sorry for you, I hope everything will work out.
> 
> As to the difference between the Phi CC and the original, I also like my Original 1266 more than 2 Phis CC I compared. The Phis CC to me sounded a little tamed in the treble and base and the stage seemed smaller. What I love most about the Abyss sound is that it sounds so big. Cinematic. I felt the Phi did reduce the vastness of sound in order to tame the treble and put forward the mids. I might be wrong about that. Also, I never had a problem with recessed mids, something many said was a weakness of the original. Maybe I got an exceptionally well sounding pair of the AB-1266? But I know I am not the only one who prefers the older model. Anyway, now with the TC, prices of the AB-1266 are likely to drop now, so Abyss will find a new group of owners!
> Cant wait to listen to the new model though. All reviews and comments are highly anticipated!


Thanks for the nice talk ,, i will contact Mr,* Joe Skubinski* and hopefully i will get an exception.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

You own a pair of original AB-1266, correct?
We have an email from you in January stating you "purchased them used for a very good price" and asking us for a discount to upgrade to Phi, and a discount on CC pads.

Your pm today is now asking to upgrade to the new TC, and that you would prefer this over talking bad about us.

A few things are obvious here but let's stay on topic... The original versions are in demand, you purchased them at a 'very good price', IMHO suggest selling them and apply the profit to what you really want.




GU1DO said:


> Thanks for the nice talk ,, i will contact Mr,* Joe Skubinski *and hopefully i will get an exception.


----------



## GU1DO (Mar 4, 2019)

Joe Skubinski said:


> You own a pair of original AB-1266, correct?
> We have an email from you in January stating you "purchased them used for a very good price" and asking us for a discount to upgrade to Phi, and a discount on CC pads.
> 
> Your pm today is now asking to upgrade to the new TC, and that you would prefer this over talking bad about us.
> ...


Yes at that time i put a down payment and i had the opportunity to return it back easily ,,
honor your customers deals is good thing going down in a discussion like this in the public is bad practice from your part ,
you could easily reject my request and close it in privet ,
English is not my first language , i may miss stated in the email i sent to you but that's the truth, i had the opportunity to return it back and it was new !!!
btw i never meant to talk bad by any means here , i meant in my local community friends and so on , *and by that say*
i meant to say to anybody here or anywhere that new customers should be cautious when buying Abyss that it could be updated next month.
i hope you understand that .

*I could provide the invoice ,, to you or in the public that it is new.*


----------



## GU1DO (Mar 4, 2019)

*Here is the pm i sent to you today :*

Dear Mr.Joe ,,

I would love to get an exception for the upgrade , i didn't buy my Abyss until i got the approval from your company , it is unfair and not good way treat a new fan of your headphone who was looking to buy the Diana Phi ,, and to be honest i lost my interest after what happened, i was so happy but now i am not listening to my 1266 ether , i don't want to talk bad about your brand to other people ,, you make really good products but now i dont know what to say anymore,,

Please include me in the TC upgrade program.

Thank you. .


----------



## GU1DO

*And sorry if it was offensive in anyway*


----------



## Zhanming057

GU1DO said:


> *Here is the pm i sent to you today :*
> 
> Dear Mr.Joe ,,
> 
> ...



If you walked out from an Apple store with an 2018 Macbook and Apple announced a 2019 version tomorrow, would you expect Apple to offer an upgrade path (beyond returning it before the 14-day mark)? 

I have my own reservations about Joe's upgrade frequency, this is something I said to him personally during Canjam, but Joe is under absolutely _no_ obligation to provide upgrades to his units. Virtually nobody outside of Abyss and Mrspeakers does this with headphones. The fact that there is an upgrade path at all from the original 1266 to the Phi, and that some customers have received a goodwill upgrade from the Phi CC is entirely at the discretion of Abyss/Joe. If you don't like the fact that there isn't a path to the TC, you're at liberty to sell the 1266 original and buy the TC, simply purchase the TC straight up, or explore the myriad of summit-fi options that's not Abyss. 

I'm usually one to support customers over companies, but it seems that you're requiring of Joe preferential treatment under the threat of badmouthing the company.


----------



## GU1DO (Mar 4, 2019)

Zhanming057 said:


> If you walked out from an Apple store with an 2018 Macbook and Apple announced a 2019 version tomorrow, would you expect Apple to offer an upgrade path (beyond returning it before the 14-day mark)?
> 
> I have my own reservations about Joe's upgrade frequency, this is something I said to him personally during Canjam, but Joe is under absolutely _no_ obligation to provide upgrades to his units. Virtually nobody outside of Abyss and Mrspeakers does this with headphones. The fact that there is an upgrade path at all from the original 1266 to the Phi, and that some customers have received a goodwill upgrade from the Phi CC is entirely at the discretion of Abyss/Joe. If you don't like the fact that there isn't a path to the TC, you're at liberty to sell the 1266 original and buy the TC, simply purchase the TC straight up, or explore the myriad of summit-fi options that's not Abyss.
> 
> I'm usually one to support customers over companies, but it seems that you're requiring of Joe preferential treatment under the threat of badmouthing the company.


I had the approval for the Phi upgrade  ,, they said in the last email that they changed to the TC drivers ,, this is why i was asking for the upgrade to the TC *and pay more* in my previous post or at least honor there upgrade approval to the phi .. ether way is fine by me.


----------



## GU1DO (Mar 4, 2019)

badmouthing by any mean ?
they make really goood products !!!!!
i cleared that in my last responce/post


----------



## GU1DO (Mar 4, 2019)

i will not go further in this ,, please close it here unless mr.joe want .
i got my response from him. it is not the end , i may sell my pair as he said and look for the new drivers (used).


----------



## ZYReady

GU1DO said:


> Yes at that time i put a down payment and i had the opportunity to return it back easily ,,
> honor your customers deals is good thing going down in a discussion like this in the public is bad practice from your part ,
> you could easily reject my request and close it in privet ,
> English is not my first language , i may miss stated in the email i sent to you but that's the truth, i had the opportunity to return it back and it was new !!!
> ...


Yes, Just return them and buy a new pair and that's it.

Or just prove it was purchased new from an authorized dealer. We are watching.


----------



## GU1DO

ZYReady said:


> Yes, Just return them and buy a new pair and that's it.
> 
> Or just prove it was purchased new from an authorized dealer. We are watching.


He was authorized dealer but not anymore.
i have the documents if anybody ask me in privet ,, or if mr.Joe ask in public.


----------



## GU1DO

btw i just checked my email to JPS ,, omg ,, i was so selly ,, i was looking for discount on the upgrade , this is why i stated it was used at the time. that was a mistake from me


----------



## Stereolab42

deuter said:


> Given you have both the WA6 and the WA5, Have You tried the Abyss with the 6?
> Iam keen to know whether it’s a good match.



6-SE actually, never tried the Abyss with it. I don't think it would have enough headroom to do it justice. Go with the 5-LE.


----------



## deuter

Stereolab42 said:


> 6-SE actually, never tried the Abyss with it. I don't think it would have enough headroom to do it justice. Go with the 5-LE.



Would you mind trying it, it’s rated at 2w at about 50 ohms so not sure why it won’t have enough power.


----------



## lambdastorm (Mar 4, 2019)

MasonStorm said:


> I agree that the Phi didn't punch as hard, or enough, compared to the OG.  I never had the chance to hear a Phi CC.  But this new Phi TC DOES punch just as hard, (IMO) once I found the right orientation of the ear pads, so it doesn't give up anything compared to the OG.  It just adds more detail/resolution/clarity, and reaches even deeper into the bass.  It actually gives me more of the low notes!


If the TC really punches as hard as the OG I might have to arrange another demo with thecableco., they will have a pair in about 6 weeks.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

I'd be interested in reading a more thorough review of the TC compared to the Phi.  Having done a bit of A/B comparing at CanJam, I did hear a difference but I wouldn't say it was a _vast_ difference.  The TC had the edge on resolution and speed, especially in the mids and high end, but I didn't sense a huge jump in bass quality or quantity as others are suggesting here.   There was a touch more texture to the bass which I did appreciate.   The real question I have is how big a jump is it from the Phi to the TC compared to the jump from the OG to the Phi.   There seems to be a bigger gulf between the OG and the Phi, at least based on my memory (which is admittedly poor).  I'm not sure the jump is as big this time.  Hard to tell on the show floor.    
One thing I noticed even more -- the benefit of using the Super Aluminata hp cable on the Diana Phi and Abyss Phi compared to using the stock cable.  They both opened up a lot with the cable swap.


----------



## Rayzilla

mt-hifidelity said:


> I'd be interested in reading a more thorough review of the TC compared to the Phi.  Having done a bit of A/B comparing at CanJam, I did hear a difference but I wouldn't say it was a _vast_ difference.  The TC had the edge on resolution and speed, especially in the mids and high end, but I didn't sense a huge jump in bass quality or quantity as others are suggesting here.   There was a touch more texture to the bass which I did appreciate.   The real question I have is how big a jump is it from the Phi to the TC compared to the jump from the OG to the Phi.   There seems to be a bigger gulf between the OG and the Phi, at least based on my memory (which is admittedly poor).  I'm not sure the jump is as big this time.  Hard to tell on the show floor.
> One thing I noticed even more -- the benefit of using the Super Aluminata hp cable on the Diana Phi and Abyss Phi compared to using the stock cable.  They both opened up a lot with the cable swap.


Did you try the TC with the stock cable too?


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Rayzilla said:


> Did you try the TC with the stock cable too?


No


----------



## Stereolab42

deuter said:


> Would you mind trying it, it’s rated at 2w at about 50 ohms so not sure why it won’t have enough power.



Headroom. I'm already well past halfway on the dial of 6-SE powering my ETHER-C, a much more sensitive headphone, on older/quieter recordings. With an Abyss I'd be close to maxing out that dial, something you never want to do with an amp. You should not be pairing $5k headphones with a $1.2k amp, period... it would be less than the sum of its parts.


----------



## MasonStorm

Indeed, I can't stress how paramount the importance is of adjusting the earcups and tilting the frame forward or back to dial in the bass.  When I first received my Phi TC, I didn't have the pads rotated correctly, and there was no bass slam.  But after looking again at the Abyss setup video, and turning them so that the stitching in the pads pointed to 11 o'clock, all of the slam was there.


----------



## erpguru (Mar 4, 2019)

I am getting quite intrigued by the 1266 TC..I currently have an LCD-4 (Ifi pro dsd into ifi ican)..really digging the LCD-4..has anyone compared the two? If so, how would you compare the two, how is the 1266 different from the LCD4? Wider soundstage, more bass slam? Going to audition the TC's from cableco and go from there, but wondering what people's impressions are for those who heard both sets of cans..Also, I work from home and have the headphones on for 5+ hours daily, would they becoming fatiguing just in sheer weight? While people state the LCD-4 is heavy, I find them quite comfortable and have no issues with wearing them for hours..

Thanks..


----------



## mulder01

gu1do, NOBODY gets an upgrade path to the TC - There are too many differences and owners of the original or phi have to sell and buy new this time.



mt-hifidelity said:


> The real question I have is how big a jump is it from the Phi to the TC compared to the jump from the OG to the Phi.   There seems to be a bigger gulf between the OG and the Phi, at least based on my memory (which is admittedly poor).  I'm not sure the jump is as big this time.  Hard to tell on the show floor.



I felt the difference from OG to phi was not massive in a side by side comparison.  I'd happily own either version but didn't feel the urge to fork out $1500 to change from one to the other.  Both were excellent.  Slightly different (on my modest setup).  I suspect it will be the same thing again as they have just updated what they are selling as the 'Abyss AB1266' headphone and kept the price the same.  If there was a significant improvement, there would be a choice of models and a price difference.  Well, that's just my thoughts anyway, I am yet to hear the TC...


----------



## wdh777

erpguru said:


> I am getting quite intrigued by the 1266 TC..I currently have an LCD-4 (Ifi pro dsd into ifi ican)..really digging the LCD-4..has anyone compared the two? If so, how would you compare the two, how is the 1266 different from the LCD4? Wider soundstage, more bass slam? Going to audition the TC's from cableco and go from there, but wondering what people's impressions are for those who heard both sets of cans..Also, I work from home and have the headphones on for 5+ hours daily, would they becoming fatiguing just in sheer weight? While people state the LCD-4 is heavy, I find them quite comfortable and have no issues with wearing them for hours..
> 
> Thanks..



Which  one is easier to drive?


----------



## Drewligarchy (Mar 4, 2019)

I received my TC on Friday and had a chance to play with it quite a bit over the weekend.

Definitely going to take some time getting used to adjustments and fit. One of the coolest things is how toeing out affects the soundstage and bass like real speakers.

While Stax calls their headphones ear speakers, these are really the closest thing to wearing speakers on your head (and the Stax are absolutely wonderful). It really is a completely different experience, that's for sure. It's still early on, but I find myself constantly tweaking the fit. I'm sure I'll settle in eventually, but it does give me a little bit of audiophile nervosa. A little bit of a blessing and a curse.

One thing I'm pretty sure of - I definitely prefer these directly from my Dave vs. the V281. Of course they could use more headroom, but they certainly don't sound strained, bass shy, or missing dynamics at all. If music is recorded very low, I could see having an issue - but I have only encountered a couple recordings where it's been a problem.

It's crazy that the first headphone that made me truly appreciate the Dave's headphone out and transparency is the Abyss. With my LCD 4s I prefer the v281; I think the dipped treble in the Audeze may have to do with it - the loss in transparency is incredibly minor with that headphone vs. what you gain because it's just not as resolving (though still the best mids of any headphone I've ever heard).

Not so with the Abyss. I am getting all the dynamics, texture, tone and resolution through the Dave - and it's a significant drop off, IMHO, through the V281.

I think the V281 is a great amp - so far - the pairing just isn't doing it for me. Maybe I'll listen some more, but I keep going back to Dave direct.

I do want to get an external amp eventually that maximizes the transparency of the Dave as much as possible. Going to try my Auralic Taurus - as I've heard it sounds similar to the GSX - while the GSX is superior.

Others have recommended the HPA4 or the XI (which I heard at Canjam - though not with the Dave). If I can drive these with the Dave pretty damn well, I don't think I need a speaker amp for these.

I'll have to do some more listening. These are incredibly resolving - on par with the 009. I don't have anything else that is close.

Still need to listen a bit more to form some opinions. I can understand why those with Dave/Abyss want something which minimizes any loss in transparency with these headphones. I can only imagine, if anything, the TC is more resolving (pure speculation, however), and increases that desire.


----------



## Drewligarchy

wdh777 said:


> Which  one is easier to drive?



LCD-4 is generally easier to drive in my experience, but could depend on the amp and it's power characteristic at different impedances.


----------



## Drewligarchy

erpguru said:


> I am getting quite intrigued by the 1266 TC..I currently have an LCD-4 (Ifi pro dsd into ifi ican)..really digging the LCD-4..has anyone compared the two? If so, how would you compare the two, how is the 1266 different from the LCD4? Wider soundstage, more bass slam? Going to audition the TC's from cableco and go from there, but wondering what people's impressions are for those who heard both sets of cans..Also, I work from home and have the headphones on for 5+ hours daily, would they becoming fatiguing just in sheer weight? While people state the LCD-4 is heavy, I find them quite comfortable and have no issues with wearing them for hours..
> 
> Thanks..



My initial impressions are that the LCD-4 is still the king of mids, though the Abyss TC is absolutely no slouch. Abyss has it beat in headstage, treble and the bass is just completely different. The LCD-4 is the best bass I've ever previously heard in a headphone - the Abyss is speaker bass. Significantly more resolving than the LCD 4. The LCD 4 is sweeter in the mids.

They would compliment eachother well. Abyss is closer to my 009 than the LCD 4. 

Still in new toy syndrome and forming opinions however. I love the LCD 4 - and that won't change.


----------



## spotforscott

Drewligarchy said:


> My initial impressions are that the LCD-4 is still the king of mids, though the Abyss TC is absolutely no slouch. Abyss has it beat in headstage, treble and the bass is just completely different. The LCD-4 is the best bass I've ever previously heard in a headphone - the Abyss is speaker bass. Significantly more resolving than the LCD 4. The LCD 4 is sweeter in the mids.
> 
> They would compliment eachother well. Abyss is closer to my 009 than the LCD 4.
> 
> Still in new toy syndrome and forming opinions however. I love the LCD 4 - and that won't change.


You should try the JPS SC cable, that cable brings a lot more magic to the mid-range


----------



## Stereolab42

The LCD-4 is absolutely fantastic and is the only headphone I'd consider a close peer to the Abyss. Anyone paying for headphones in this price range owes it to themselves to hear both first. It's going to come down to personal preference.


----------



## Mystel (Mar 5, 2019)

Drewligarchy said:


> I do want to get an external amp eventually that maximizes the transparency of the Dave as much as possible. Going to try my Auralic Taurus - as I've heard it sounds similar to the GSX - while the GSX is superior.
> 
> Others have recommended the HPA4 or the XI (which I heard at Canjam - though not with the Dave). If I can drive these with the Dave pretty damn well, I don't think I need a speaker amp for these.
> 
> ...



I had this similar craving, and posted about my journey to find the perfect amp not too long ago
I have yet to try the HPA4 or XI , but i have tried numerous other amps .
As for as headphone amps are concerned, these are the ones ive went through with both versions of the abyss since owning the dave:
Gsx mk2, WA5 , Alo Studio Six , Simaudio Moon 430HAD , v281 , Liquid Gold , Liquid Glass, Liquid Crimson, Ragnarok, Wells Audio Milo, Taurus, EC Black Widow, EC Studio . Aside from that, ive had numerous extended listening sessions at local store (AvOne) with Blu2/Dave into the Wa33 and Headtrip .
Basically after having owned/tried all those, the only amp that really retained the transparency and resolution of the Dave ( at least to my ears ), is the EC Studio  ( amongst those that ive tried )


Anyway i have already sold my Phi, in preparation for the TC


----------



## deuter

Mystel said:


> I has this similar craving, and posted about my journey to find the perfect amp not too long ago
> I have yet to try the HPA4 or XI , but i have tried numerous other amps .
> As for as headphone amps are concerned, these are the ones ive went through with both versions of the abyss since owning the dave:
> Gsx mk2, WA5 , Alo Studio Six , Simaudio Moon 430HAD , v281 , Liquid Gold , Liquid Glass, Liquid Crimson, Ragnarok, Wells Audio Milo, Taurus, EC Black Widow, EC Studio . Aside from that, ive had numerous extended listening sessions at local store (AvOne) with Blu2/Dave into the Wa33 and Headtrip .
> ...



Would you say the Eddie Current Balanced Act be on par with Studio


----------



## Autostart

Torq said:


> Aha!
> 
> Those would be the ratings for the “Low” power setting.


Not to mention that those specs are from the WA5 Gen1 so depending what generation we are talking about here. Yes, it is possible these specs are correct.


----------



## Mystel

deuter said:


> Would you say the Eddie Current Balanced Act be on par with Studio


I've never heard a ECBA so i cant comment on that.


----------



## Zhanming057

Autostart said:


> Not to mention that those specs are from the WA5 Gen1 so depending what generation we are talking about here. Yes, it is possible these specs are correct.



The WA5 gen 1 and 2 have identical circuitry and maximum output. The gen 2 just adds a couple physical gain stops in between the "K1000" level and the low power/impedance option.


----------



## deuter

With a smile on my face I’am now the owner of the Original Abyss 1266.
Had heard it once a few years back  and had left an impression especially the bass.
Back then it was very unaffordable to me.
But a pair came up at a decent price and I decided to take a dip.

Playing it through a Woo Amp, took me a while to get the right setting for the bass to really kick in.
I must be having a weird head 
Do you guys angle the drivers?

I noticed 10’o clock on the seam for the pad gives me the best bass.


----------



## FLTWS (Mar 7, 2019)

deuter said:


> With a smile on my face I’am now the owner of the Original Abyss 1266.
> Had heard it once a few years back  and had left an impression especially the bass.
> Back then it was very unaffordable to me.
> But a pair came up at a decent price and I decided to take a dip.
> ...



Every head/jaw line is different so all that adjust-ability is a good thing as one size, or position, won't fit all. If the set screw on top is at the right amount of tightness I find my Phi will automatically angle itself to equalize pressure all the way around as I change the pads rotational position after a few minutes of wearing.

One word of caution, I need the arms at maximum separation to fit over my head (and a little extra length in the top bars might be better). The first six months I owned it I use to close it down after each session thinking I was saving the stretch on the leather head rest portions "O" rings. It eventually became so floppy it would collapse forward and not stay in position on my head. I sent it in for adjustment. According to Joe that top screw is set with a special, custom, torques wrench to do it properly. Blade or cross types of screw driver blades will most likely damage it.and not set it correctly. Joe suggested keeping the arms separated at the "ready to wear" position at all times. With the top screw set correctly tightness wise, even as I rotate to try different positions of the (CC now) pads the angle adjusts itself (or the pads do) to equalize the pressure all around after a few minutes of wearing when I have the pads at the right position for the shape of my head/jaw line.Now I tend to leave the pads in the same position all the time and the arms stay in a  fixed position.

Anyway, that's my experience. And enjoy your 1266!


----------



## _gamma_

I have a question: 

for Phi owners what will happen if one driver will break and will not be able to be repaired? I hope it never happens but…will  be replaced or will be no more possible?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Day to day production has shifted to producing the new TC drivers. That's not to say we can no longer repair or replace older drivers.


----------



## _gamma_

Joe Skubinski said:


> Day to day production has shifted to producing the new TC drivers. That's not to say we can no longer repair or replace older drivers.



thank you very much for your reply


----------



## deuter

Joe you’ve made a marvel with the 1266, get groovy bass for jazz and does not bleed into the female vocals. They sound so clean. I don’t know any headphone that does that.


----------



## Allears79

negura said:


> https://abyss-headphones.com/collections/abyss-headphones/products/abyss-ab-1266-phi-headphone
> ABYSS AB-1266 PHI TC HEADPHONE
> 
> $4,995.00
> ...


Did you try them? I wonder how much superior than te CC those can be...


----------



## tholt (Mar 7, 2019)

Hi all, I've read pretty thoroughly through this thread regarding compatible amps, getting the optimal fit, etc to hear what's capable of the 1266. I have the non-Phi version, but with CC earpads. My current amp is a Schiit Mjolnir 2 w/Siemens tubes fed by a Resonessence Veritas DAC (Sabre DAC 9028 Pro chip) via balanced cables, and using the balanced HP output. So I *think* everything should be peachy. The Mjolnir should have plenty of power. The fit is such that the pads are just barely touching my head -- they shake somewhat freely when I shake my head (I've also tried them tighter fitting). 

What I'm hearing: bright, sheeny highs, recessed and thin mids and bass that is good, but not amazing like I've read in so many accounts. I don't think what I'm hearing is what others are when they describe the sonic attributes of this headphone. I'm thinking it's either a lack of synergy with the amp or the fitting is still off? Any thoughts?


----------



## GU1DO

Joe Skubinski said:


> Day to day production has shifted to producing the new TC drivers. That's not to say we can no longer repair or replace older drivers.


I assume also OG drivers ?


----------



## deuter

What would prompt you from a sound signature perspective that the Abyss 1266 is not being driven to its full potential by the headphone amp.


----------



## matthewhypolite

deuter said:


> What would prompt you from a sound signature perspective that the Abyss 1266 is not being driven to its full potential by the headphone amp.



I'll take a crack at this one. 

Abyss scales incredibly well with better amplification. When not driven to their max potential, Highs would be sharper and more fatiguing, bass notes will loose definition and get a bit bloated. All in all, more power adds more control over the abyss driver resulting in a cleaner, more neutral and more precise overall sound.

Given the abyss native sound signature favoring extreme resolution and clarity, I don't like the cans as much on lesser amps where soemthing like the Utopia would actually do very well on. Once the abyss is fed... Jsut leaves the rest behind. 

Hope that helps.


----------



## tholt

deuter said:


> What would prompt you from a sound signature perspective that the Abyss 1266 is not being driven to its full potential by the headphone amp.



Hi, assume you're referring to my post? If not lmk. I see you're also a relatively new owner. As I mentioned, the sound to me sounds rather bright, thin and also a little unnatural due to that. Based on all the raves I'm reading about (and a report from a friend who attended the last CanJam), I don't feel that what I'm hearing warrants that much praise. I'm wondering if the Mjolnir isn't doing them justice, despite the high-rated output.

I asked the previous owner and he said he experienced something similar with his Pass HPA-1, but swapping that out for a Wells Milo was in his words a "game changer".



matthewhypolite said:


> I'll take a crack at this one.
> 
> Abyss scales incredibly well with better amplification. When not driven to their max potential, Highs would be sharper and more fatiguing, bass notes will loose definition and get a bit bloated. All in all, more power adds more control over the abyss driver resulting in a cleaner, more neutral and more precise overall sound.
> 
> ...



Could be what I'm dealing with. However, it seems like power isn't the only factor as I should have plenty if the specs are correct on the Mjolnir.


----------



## matthewhypolite

tholt said:


> Hi, assume you're referring to my post? If not lmk. I see you're also a relatively new owner. As I mentioned, the sound to me sounds rather bright, thin and also a little unnatural due to that. Based on all the raves I'm reading about (and a report from a friend who attended the last CanJam), I don't feel that what I'm hearing warrants that much praise. I'm wondering if the Mjolnir isn't doing them justice, despite the high-rated output.
> 
> I asked the previous owner and he said he experienced something similar with his Pass HPA-1, but swapping that out for a Wells Milo was in his words a "game changer".
> 
> ...



Did not realzie the root of the question, but as you see from my response, you are sorta describing the same thing I just described when an abyss is not fed well.


----------



## lambdastorm

tholt said:


> Hi, assume you're referring to my post? If not lmk. I see you're also a relatively new owner. As I mentioned, the sound to me sounds rather bright, thin and also a little unnatural due to that. Based on all the raves I'm reading about (and a report from a friend who attended the last CanJam), I don't feel that what I'm hearing warrants that much praise. I'm wondering if the Mjolnir isn't doing them justice, despite the high-rated output.
> 
> I asked the previous owner and he said he experienced something similar with his Pass HPA-1, but swapping that out for a Wells Milo was in his words a "game changer".
> 
> ...


The simplified reason is that most Wells stuff are scaled-down speaker amps. They have very high current output capability and can push any power-hungry cans to the limit. I used to have the Headtrip, while its not the most refined amp it is indeed one of the most dynamic sounding amps I've ever heard. The control it exerts on the Abyss is terrific, synergy? Great. 

I've since sold it and bought an AudioGD P3S. Granted it doesn't sound nearly as good as the Headtrip, but it also doesn't cost nearly as much.


----------



## deuter

I’ve had the Bakoon before which is a current mode amp.
I wonder whether the Eddie Current Balanced Act would be suitable.


----------



## MacedonianHero

lambdastorm said:


> The simplified reason is that most Wells stuff are scaled-down speaker amps. They have very high current output capability and can push any power-hungry cans to the limit. I used to have the Headtrip, while its not the most refined amp it is indeed one of the most dynamic sounding amps I've ever heard. The control it exerts on the Abyss is terrific, synergy? Great.
> 
> I've since sold it and bought an AudioGD P3S. Granted it doesn't sound nearly as good as the Headtrip, but it also doesn't cost nearly as much.



Personally I don't find the Abyss that hard to drive well like some other planars and as a result shouldn't scare off folks.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

MacedonianHero said:


> Personally I don't find the Abyss that hard to drive well like some other planars and as a result shouldn't scare off folks.


 
I agree with what's been posted about appropriately powering the Abyss.  Same is true for the Diana Phi.  I can get a reasonable experience with something as teeny as a Hugo 2, but when I add a dedicated amp to the mix it opens a whole other world.  Like night and day.  I don't mean to scare off anyone from obtaining an Abyss, as I've enjoyed it paired with lower-power devices, but if you are spending this much on a headphone it makes sense to budget for an amp to match.   I've been using the iFi iCan Pro to date.  It's well under $2K, and with its 14w into 16ohm rating, does a good job.  But I've started sniffing out other options that may be more transparent and controlled.


----------



## tholt

I'd be interested if anyone has a different experience with the Mjolnir 2 (balanced in/ balanced out)? 

I knew the Abyss needed power — I briefly tried it with my Linear Tube Audio MZ2 which is a great amp for dynamic headphones like Focal and Senn — but it simply sounded horribly thin and bleached. Not nearly enough juice. As I bought the 1266 out of intrigue and curiosity and really anticipating good things, I thought, ok, it needs more power. I wasn't prepared to throw another $$$ on an amp though, just to experiment. Hence I thought the Mjolnir 2 made a lot of sense. I know even @jude used the 1266 with the Mjolnir 1 at one point. Power-wise, the amp should be fine. Thus I'm somewhat surprised that I'm not getting essentially much fuller sound. It does sound "good" -- everything is there, but there is a tangible thinness to the sound and it feels lacking. So unless something else is going on, it appears, from my little corner anyway, it's more than just power involved to make them sound their best. I'm a bit at a loss. Perhaps it's just a lack of synergy.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Mystel said:


> I had this similar craving, and posted about my journey to find the perfect amp not too long ago
> I have yet to try the HPA4 or XI , but i have tried numerous other amps .
> As for as headphone amps are concerned, these are the ones ive went through with both versions of the abyss since owning the dave:
> Gsx mk2, WA5 , Alo Studio Six , Simaudio Moon 430HAD , v281 , Liquid Gold , Liquid Glass, Liquid Crimson, Ragnarok, Wells Audio Milo, Taurus, EC Black Widow, EC Studio . Aside from that, ive had numerous extended listening sessions at local store (AvOne) with Blu2/Dave into the Wa33 and Headtrip .
> ...



EC Studio had enough juice? Looking at it's page it only does 800 mw into 32 ohms. Is that much more than Dave anyway, or am I just reading it wrong? Eddie Current also selling a Studio Jr. that is more powerful but about half the price.

How would you rank the others (generally). The problem I have with the V281 is it sounds a little rolled off. My Simaudio 230HAD sounded better - and it's only about 2 watts, I think at the Abyss's impedance.

How would you rate the Taurus vs others? Just trying to get a sense of what I have vs what potential improvements are out there.

I remember listening to the WA33 at CanJam. Wasn't connected to the Dave, but was the best I heard it. Don't remember exactly why.


----------



## x RELIC x (Mar 8, 2019)

Drewligarchy said:


> Is that much more than Dave anyway, or am I just reading it wrong?



According to the manufacturer website yes the EC Studio is 800mW in to 32 Ohms, the DAVE is 1.4W in to 33 Ohms. However, consider the overall design. The EC Studio says it can pump out 6W in to 8 Ohm while the DAVE can do 2W in to 8 Ohms. There are obvious implementation differences and I suspect it’s part of a Current limiting difference.

Either way, both technically have enough juice (Voltage and Current) to drive the Abyss’s efficiency and impedance specs at high SPL but may struggle at the highest SPL (think dynamics). It depends on listening habits and/or source levels/dynamic range. The EC tube design vs DAVE design and synergy will also play a big part. FYI, although the DAVE’s XLR out is double the Voltage output one should never connect headphones directly to DAVE’s XLR out as it’s very Current limited (0.5mA if I remember correctly).


----------



## mulder01

I heard the Studio and to my ears, it was, I'm going to say, an 'easier listen' than the v281.  And the v281 to my ears was a bit more rounded off/ warm/ easier to listen to than other solid state amps that I had tried.  
I have hardly any experience with tubes, so I don't have anything else to compare the Studio to.  I thought that was just the nature of tube amps though.  Nice sounding amp for sure, but the claim that no other amp can help retain the transparency of a $10k DAC leaves me scratching my head a bit.
From memory, running out of power was not a concern.


----------



## Mystel (Mar 8, 2019)

mulder01 said:


> I heard the Studio and to my ears, it was, I'm going to say, an 'easier listen' than the v281.  And the v281 to my ears was a bit more rounded off/ warm/ easier to listen to than other solid state amps that I had tried.
> I have hardly any experience with tubes, so I don't have anything else to compare the Studio to.  I thought that was just the nature of tube amps though.  Nice sounding amp for sure, but the claim that no other amp can help retain the transparency of a $10k DAC leaves me scratching my head a bit.
> From memory, running out of power was not a concern.



Sorry if i phrased my point wrongly, but what i meant to say is that i feel the Studio is incredible in *the aspect of transparency *.I never said that no other amp could retain the transparency of the DAVE , i just said that amongst all those that i tried/owned, the Studio did the best in *that regard, and only in that regard.*



Drewligarchy said:


> EC Studio had enough juice? Looking at it's page it only does 800 mw into 32 ohms. Is that much more than Dave anyway, or am I just reading it wrong? Eddie Current also selling a Studio Jr. that is more powerful but about half the price.
> 
> How would you rank the others (generally). The problem I have with the V281 is it sounds a little rolled off. My Simaudio 230HAD sounded better - and it's only about 2 watts, I think at the Abyss's impedance.
> 
> ...



Honestly the Abyss isnt exactly very hard to drive, relative to other planars the he6 and susvara, which ive only gotten to sing after paring it with nice power amps. Ive paired the Abyss with the same amps before, and while it does sound good, it doesnt actually sound like it requires a lot of power to come alive. Yes it does require  certain amount of power, but beyond that, I feel its more of a sound signature matching game with the amps, based on your own sonic preferences 

WA33 was a very exciting and lively amp to my ears, it had its own character. I mean, ive also enjoyed its tonality, and would gladly buy it one day. Its just that since the goal i had was to match the transparency of the dave as much as possible , the Studio was the best amongst the amps ive tried.

I'll also add that while the Studio is great in technicalities, its tonality with the abyss might not be for everyone. For me its the amp for transparency, space and resolution. If you want tonal richness, a more euphonic 'tube-like' and exciting character, there are many better options out there

If i were to rank the amps based on my personal sonic preferences, the studio isnt my favourite anymore. These days, i tend to prefer a more organic and warm sound signature, so i find myself pairing the Abyss with the Liquid Glass a little more. A significant step down in technicalities yes, but its a nice and easy listen . Ranking it this way is more subjective than anything. I have a friend who much prefers the Abyss paired with the Liquid Gold to my Studio.


----------



## deuter

Drewligarchy said:


> EC Studio had enough juice? Looking at it's page it only does 800 mw into 32 ohms. Is that much more than Dave anyway, or am I just reading it wrong? Eddie Current also selling a Studio Jr. that is more powerful but about half the price.
> 
> How would you rank the others (generally). The problem I have with the V281 is it sounds a little rolled off. My Simaudio 230HAD sounded better - and it's only about 2 watts, I think at the Abyss's impedance.
> 
> ...



This definitely warrants a conversation about what is required for the Abyss. My WA6 SE has ear bleeding gain.
On paper it’s 2 watts at 50 ohms but I have got some nice NOS tubes that have even more gain.

What people here are not reporting that a DAC such as Dave with less than 1 watt output drives the Abyss well.
I for one is very happpy with the WA6 SE but want to know what it is that the Abyss craves. Power, Quality watts or just pure synergy?

So please keep this discussion going and hopefully we can get a list of top amps with Abyss 1266.


----------



## tholt

Mystel said:


> I had this similar craving, and posted about my journey to find the perfect amp not too long ago
> I have yet to try the HPA4 or XI , but i have tried numerous other amps .
> As for as headphone amps are concerned, these are the ones ive went through with both versions of the abyss since owning the dave:
> Gsx mk2, WA5 , Alo Studio Six , Simaudio Moon 430HAD , v281 , Liquid Gold , Liquid Glass, Liquid Crimson, Ragnarok, Wells Audio Milo, Taurus, EC Black Widow, EC Studio . Aside from that, ive had numerous extended listening sessions at local store (AvOne) with Blu2/Dave into the Wa33 and Headtrip .
> ...





Drewligarchy said:


> EC Studio had enough juice? Looking at it's page it only does 800 mw into 32 ohms. Is that much more than Dave anyway, or am I just reading it wrong? Eddie Current also selling a Studio Jr. that is more powerful but about half the price.
> 
> How would you rank the others (generally). The problem I have with the V281 is it sounds a little rolled off. My Simaudio 230HAD sounded better - and it's only about 2 watts, I think at the Abyss's impedance.
> 
> ...





deuter said:


> This definitely warrants a conversation about what is required for the Abyss. My WA6 SE has ear bleeding gain.
> On paper it’s 2 watts at 50 ohms but I have got some nice NOS tubes that have even more gain.
> 
> What people here are not reporting that a DAC such as Dave with less than 1 watt output drives the Abyss well.
> ...



Agreed, would love to get some ideas on synergistic amps for the 1266 that are on the more 'reasonably priced' side of the spectrum. Above, the Taurus, Ragnarok and Woo WA6 SE were mentioned. To follow up for @Mystel , care to comment on your recollection of the Taurus and the Ragnarok with the Abyss? Also, interesting to know about the WA6 SE. I had assumed it wouldn't have enough power but sounds like it might? Which tubes are you using with it successfully (and to add gain)?

I have a small collection of 6922 variants. I've found I am getting a bit more agreeable sound rolling some tubes I hadn't before. Not night and day but small changes for the better. Still not sure the Mjolnir 2 is a good fit, despite ~5w @ 50 ohm output and less than 1 ohm output impedance. So maybe it's really down to synergy?


----------



## deuter

tholt said:


> Agreed, would love to get some ideas on synergistic amps for the 1266 that are on the more 'reasonably priced' side of the spectrum. Above, the Taurus, Ragnarok and Woo WA6 SE were mentioned. To follow up for @Mystel , care to comment on your recollection of the Taurus and the Ragnarok with the Abyss? Also, interesting to know about the WA6 SE. I had assumed it wouldn't have enough power but sounds like it might? Which tubes are you using with it successfully (and to add gain)?
> 
> I have a small collection of 6922 variants. I've found I am getting a bit more agreeable sound rolling some tubes I hadn't before. Not night and day but small changes for the better. Still not sure the Mjolnir 2 is a good fit, despite ~5w @ 50 ohm output and less than 1 ohm output impedance. So maybe it's really down to synergy?



I am using the Philco 6FD7 Black Plate and they sound wonderful. Volume is about 9:30 to 10 on the WA 6 SE for enjoyment.


----------



## tholt

deuter said:


> I am using the Philco 6FD7 Black Plate and they sound wonderful. Volume is about 9:30 to 10 on the WA 6 SE for enjoyment.



Awesome! I'll make a note of that.


----------



## jlbrach

I received my new Phi TC today and after listening for a few hours here are some preliminary thoughts. First off the original Phi was so darn good already that comparing the new and old is like comparing a TOTL mercedes to its new model.....that said here goes.....i find the data retrieval to be remarkable...i am lucky enough to have the dave/blu2 and this HP can discern the most minute things in a recording. it is eerie at times to hear discussions in the recording booth as the music plays. I found the phi to have a bit of sibilance from time to time and thus far in my limited listening to the same music i notice none of the sibilance. The fit is a bit different for me thus far because the band is tighter and holds the HP higher up on my head and the frame a bit tighter but i am working on negotiating those issues. I find things a bit more focused and a bit tighter if that is even possible and all in all i am impressed. i will add to this as i go along....the bass to me is pretty much the same as is the soundstage at this early point!


----------



## mulder01

All amp choices are 100% down to personal preference.  
You can type the Abyss's specs into a headphone power calculator and that will give you a calculated officially correct answer.  Anything beyond that and you'll find someone to love/hate/be totally indifferent about any amp, including as many exaggerations and hyperboles as you like.  Beyond meeting actual power requirements, it's pretty much like asking which flavour ice cream is the best.


----------



## matthewhypolite

mulder01 said:


> All amp choices are 100% down to personal preference.
> You can type the Abyss's specs into a headphone power calculator and that will give you a calculated officially correct answer.  Anything beyond that and you'll find someone to love/hate/be totally indifferent about any amp, including as many exaggerations and hyperboles as you like.  Beyond meeting actual power requirements, it's pretty much like asking which flavour ice cream is the best.




That's easy, pistachio


----------



## deuter

One thing I noticed with the Abyss compared to headphones I've head previously even Stax is that  the vocal image is wide and also has height, its not like its coming through this small pipe.
Very much like Electrostatic Speakers.
Concert like sound, love it


----------



## galacticsoap

I took ownership of my Abyss 1266 TC's early last week and have spent the next 6 days listening to my usual material, alongside some music I rarely sample but enjoy none-the-less. I listen to predominantly electronica via my headphone rig details of which you'll note via my signature. Specifically, this means I listen to a lot of experimental dub, ambient, techno and deep/progressive house. 

As such, a transducer that's quick and agile, with the ability to deliver a dynamic sound that excels in both high and low frequency extension without taking away from the musicality of the piece of music I'm listening to sits at the top of my list of requirements. Up until the TC I felt the OG Abyss delivered this in spades. 

Having happily owned the OG Abyss for 5 years. I spent the weeks leading up to the arrival of the TC literally shaking my head in disbelief. Wondering how on earth they could improve on the sound. Impossible I thought, perhaps a small incremental improvement: the kind of improvement I had experienced with the original Phi (which wasn't enough for me to upgrade) I told myself. Well, I was wrong. In comparison to the OG Abyss the TC is a revelation. If I were to list the top three improvements to my ear they are:

1) Resolution
The improvement in resolution is breath-taking. This improvement presents itself as more air between instruments (read: synths, loops, samples and beats) allowing the dynamic abilities of the new TC driver to showcase its other worldly properties in a chasm that seems suspended time and space. The electronica I listened to is layered and complex. The TC manages to lay-out all of this complexity in a balanced, coherent yet extremely resolving way. The OG Abyss sounds congested and more than a few steps off the mark with respect to PRAT. At the risk of trotting out a well worn cliche, the old adage of a veil being lifted to expose a clearer window into the music was precisely my experience here. 

2) High frequency extension
Like most I found the OG Abyss to be a touch sibilant on some recordings. On well mastered electronica this wasn't an issue and allowed the OG to do it's thing in all it's visceral and dynamic glory. However, anyone who listens to electronica will tell you that the term "well mastered electronica" can be seen as a contradiction in terms. With the OG, I often had to trade off some finesse and composure in the high frequencies for the full palette of sonic experiences on show when listening to electronica. Not so with the TC. I'm not exactly sure how Joe's managed to increase resolution while increasing the musicality on less than stellar recordings - but he's done it! High-frequencies are no longer sibilant but rather fully extended with the ability to stop on a dime. This precision is mesmerizing, where the OG's highs seemed to be reaching the limits of its driver the TC delivers a step change that's unlike anything I've heard, nothings strained or stretched. Just relaxed and beautiful. Terms not often associated the type of dark melodic tech house you'll hear reverberating in Berghain at 2pm on a Sunday. 

3) Low frequency texture, impact, and extension 
One (if not THE) best thing about the OG Abyss was it's bass. As you can imagine bass is the foundation of the four-four beat. The rock that most great electronica is built upon. While I consider myself a recovering bass-head, I still haven't lost my appreciation and respect for a transducer that's able to do bass well, i.e. when bass impact and texture intersects with control and finesse. Any driver can bang out a beat, but only world class drivers do so with absolute control, rhythm and timing. The TC breaks through the benchmark set by it's older sibling. This bass here is as indulgent in its nuance as it is impactful in its delivery. 

Suffice to say I'm besotted by the new TC. I know it sounds strange to be grateful about the opportunity to drop $6K on a pair of new headphones but that's exactly how I feel. There's no shortage of exceptional TOTL headphones out there at eye-watering prices. They all offer up their own unique signatures. For me the OG Abyss was always what did it for me, however I'd be lying if I wasn't tempted by the likes of the Susvara. I'm quite happy to say that I can again hop-off the upgrade treadmill for another few years.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Mar 9, 2019)

tholt said:


> Agreed, would love to get some ideas on synergistic amps for the 1266 that are on the more 'reasonably priced' side of the spectrum. Above, the Taurus, Ragnarok and Woo WA6 SE were mentioned. To follow up for @Mystel , care to comment on your recollection of the Taurus and the Ragnarok with the Abyss? Also, interesting to know about the WA6 SE. I had assumed it wouldn't have enough power but sounds like it might? Which tubes are you using with it successfully (and to add gain)?
> 
> I have a small collection of 6922 variants. I've found I am getting a bit more agreeable sound rolling some tubes I hadn't before. Not night and day but small changes for the better. Still not sure the Mjolnir 2 is a good fit, despite ~5w @ 50 ohm output and less than 1 ohm output impedance. So maybe it's really down to synergy?



I just tried my Taurus with Dave and the Abyss TC last night, and I thought it was good - but doesn't make sense in that setup. I have been trying to go for a sound as transparent as possible, and it sounded more transparent than the V281, but it didn't feel like it was much more powerful than the Dave - if at all. This doesn't make a ton of sense to me as I think it's supposed to have something like 4 watts at 50 ohms - but the V281 has way more power. If the Taurus has the same amount of juice as the Dave, at that point, why not just go Dave direct if the goal is transparency?

I tried both balanced and 6.35mm - and felt the single-ended had slightly more power. It seems like a decent budget option if you are looking for a transparent amp. 

I'm interested in the other amps as well, too. That said, part of me likes the sound with the Dave so much - I don't know why I am trying to fix something that isn't broken. I have gotten it up to 0 or +1 on certain tracks on the Dave, but I don't hear any perceivable distortion.

I don't like Dave direct as much with my LCD4. The V281 definitely adds something (or maybe also subtracts a little of the boost the LCD4 has at 10k+).

With the Abyss TC, it's really a night and day difference with Dave direct vs the V281. The Dave direct is much more transparent, but the V281 may add something that's preferable to some people with these phones. It's about preference, as has been repeated in this thread.

This has me thinking that if I am going to get a separate amp for the Abyss, it would probably be better not to go with the GSX Mk2 wire with gain camp. Similarly to the V281 and LCD4, it has to add something pleasing. Even if the GSX, or another amp - is absolutely transparent - what am I gaining if the Dave already has enough power?

I really, really like the Abyss and WA33 at Canjam. I may just be destined to empty my wallet on this. I would have three end game rigs in KGSSHV Carbon > 009, LCD4 > V281 and WA33 > Abyss, all powered by Dave. In that case hopefully that WA33 is as good with the LCD4 as the V281, so I could at least sell that 

One thing is for sure, I didn't think the Abyss would be the headphone that I have - that above all others I prefer direct to Dave.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Any advice on comfort mods for the Abyss?

While I don't have any issue with the LCD4, noticing some hot spots with the Abyss because it doesn't clamp on top of my head. Anyone put some cushioning around the headband, or something like that?


----------



## melb0028

Drewligarchy said:


> I just tried my Taurus with Dave and the Abyss TC last night, and I thought it was good - but doesn't make sense in that setup. I have been trying to go for a sound as transparent as possible, and it sounded more transparent than the V281, but it didn't feel like it was much more powerful than the Dave - if at all. This doesn't make a ton of sense to me as I think it's supposed to have something like 4 watts at 50 ohms - but the V281 has way more power. If the Taurus has the same amount of juice as the Dave, at that point, why not just go Dave direct if the goal is transparency?
> 
> I tried both balanced and 6.35mm - and felt the single-ended had slightly more power. It seems like a decent budget option if you are looking for a transparent amp.
> 
> ...




I’m listening to the Abyss TC through the WA33 - it is truly mind bending! Echoing the comments of galacticsoap, the TC is spectacular in resolution and musicality. I have never heard better from any headphone system in 20 years of listening. A truly astonishing accomplishment. Now back to enjoying the music


----------



## Drewligarchy (Mar 10, 2019)

This is the best rock headphone I’ve ever heard! I’m going to go deaf 

This is what I wanted the Audeze to be, and it has it’s strengths for sure, but the soundstage, precision and transition in the upper mids to treble, and note weight is astounding.

I’ve just been rocking out for the past couple hours, and my Stax and LCD4, while great in their own right - never did rock/metal/blues justice.

I feel like studio version of Julius from Phish’s Hoist really shows off what thes can do. The whole album is really great on these headphones.


----------



## mulder01

Drewligarchy said:


> Any advice on comfort mods for the Abyss?
> 
> While I don't have any issue with the LCD4, noticing some hot spots with the Abyss because it doesn't clamp on top of my head. Anyone put some cushioning around the headband, or something like that?



I think mostly cable ties or velcro to attach the headband just above the driver was the most common solution.  There should be a bunch of photos in the thread... though the link to the thread's pictures seems to have been moved or removed...


----------



## matthewhypolite (Mar 10, 2019)

Drewligarchy said:


> Any advice on comfort mods for the Abyss?
> 
> While I don't have any issue with the LCD4, noticing some hot spots with the Abyss because it doesn't clamp on top of my head. Anyone put some cushioning around the headband, or something like that?



See my mod here:
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/totl-headphones-comparison.856079/#post-13616612

Their are others floating around also, couple of the more elaborate ones linked in that same post.


----------



## tholt

@Drewligarchy thanks for your impressions with the Taurus. Regarding headband mods, there are a ton on here as noted. My head isn't so large so I had an issue where I felt the headphones (esp with their weight) were sitting a little too low on my head. The tops of my ears were really touching the inside tops of the earcups. The rubber straps of my headband are thick and have a tight fit in the groove of the headband holders on either side. What I did was wedge the bands to just the bottoms of the headband holders, without going up and around them. Effectively this makes the headband lower which keeps the headphones themselves higher. Works well without any significant mods or extra straps.


----------



## kyle1010

melb0028 said:


> I’m listening to the Abyss TC through the WA33 - it is truly mind bending! Echoing the comments of galacticsoap, the TC is spectacular in resolution and musicality. I have never heard better from any headphone system in 20 years of listening. A truly astonishing accomplishment. Now back to enjoying the music



Which tubes are you using?


----------



## melb0028

kyle1010 said:


> Which tubes are you using?



I’m using the Takatsuki TA-274, KR Audio 2A3, and Electro Harmonix 6C45. Excellent upgrades from the stock tubes. Highly recommend in a system as highly resolved as the wa33 and abyss tc. Honestly it sounds real.


----------



## deuter

I'am rocking the OG version recently acquired, I know the TC version is heaps better as per what is described here.
I wouldn't mind doing the headcup upgrade to CC first as I believe that will be a decent one.
I cannot see myself upgrading to the TC any time soon, would like to spend some time with the OG to see if I enjoy this sound a few months from now.
So far its a revelation.
I come from having listened and owned most top tier headphones. I drifted to speaker setup and love that.
But recently decided to have something else to fall back on when I wanted to have a quick listening session but was reluctant to go back to the sound that I had left, so I said to myself why not give the Abyss a go, so far its the closest they have sounded to speakers, so open and huge sound.
Still researching amps but not convinced it need more power, what it needs is synergy.
Right now I'am listening though my CD player which also has a tube output stage, at somestage I might plug it into my vinyl setup to see if I dig that chain.


----------



## matthewhypolite

melb0028 said:


> I’m using the Takatsuki TA-274, KR Audio 2A3, and Electro Harmonix 6C45. Excellent upgrades from the stock tubes. Highly recommend in a system as highly resolved as the wa33 and abyss tc. Honestly it sounds real.



I'm running, Western Electric 274B NOS Rec, RCA 2A3 NOS Monoplate, EH 6C45. I have a takatsuki 274 as well, but I ultimately prefer the WE.


----------



## melb0028

matthewhypolite said:


> I'm running, Western Electric 274B NOS Rec, RCA 2A3 NOS Monoplate, EH 6C45. I have a takatsuki 274 as well, but I ultimately prefer the WE.


Thanks! I will have to give the Western Electric a try.


----------



## matthewhypolite

melb0028 said:


> Thanks! I will have to give the Western Electric a try.



See the WA33 review in my sig for a comparison on the tubes i've tried.


----------



## 369gdtw

I have finally taken the plunge and am picking up my Abyss 1266 Phi CC tomorrow.

My current headphone amp is a Eddie Current ZDS. Love it but from what I’ve read then I doubt it’s got the minerals to get the best out of the Abyss.

I have not tried a Lau before but have heard it pairs well.

I’m also tempted by keeping the ZDS & purchasing a First Watt F7 or Pass Labs XA25.

Any advice on the above, or other options would be appreciated.


----------



## Pastwa

Definitely add to your list Niimbus US4+, very universal amplifier plus, it does the thing with 1266, this combination really shines.


----------



## kyle1010

melb0028 said:


> I’m using the Takatsuki TA-274, KR Audio 2A3, and Electro Harmonix 6C45. Excellent upgrades from the stock tubes. Highly recommend in a system as highly resolved as the wa33 and abyss tc. Honestly it sounds real.


Sweet, I’ve heard that combo in the 33 and you’re right it’s startlingly realistic. I’m still running in my 33 with the stock tubes at around 90hrs but I’ll be looking for upgrade tubes soon.


----------



## kyle1010

galacticsoap said:


> I took ownership of my Abyss 1266 TC's early last week and have spent the next 6 days listening to my usual material, alongside some music I rarely sample but enjoy none-the-less. I listen to predominantly electronica via my headphone rig details of which you'll note via my signature. Specifically, this means I listen to a lot of experimental dub, ambient, techno and deep/progressive house.
> 
> As such, a transducer that's quick and agile, with the ability to deliver a dynamic sound that excels in both high and low frequency extension without taking away from the musicality of the piece of music I'm listening to sits at the top of my list of requirements. Up until the TC I felt the OG Abyss delivered this in spades.
> 
> ...



Is this a safe place for richly layered electronic music loving bassheads? I think you and I have the exact same tastes in music and tonality. I’ve been chasing that sound you’re describing from headphones(Audezes)for years now and I think your post just pushed me over the edge to sell my LCD-4 and go TC. I’ve gone up the chain in dacs and amps all the way to my current setup of WA33/TT2 (sold my DAVE for sounding too thin) to try and get that middle of a Berlin techno club experiencing a Mind Against or Tale of Us set in the dark with minimal lighting design type of feeling. LCD-4 gets close but for true impactful four-four beat bass I have to eq them between TT2 and WA33 with a Schiit Loki. I don’t hear any loss of resolution, but it always feels wrong to have to go that route. Also the LCD-4’s peaky upper treble can take you out of the zone so quickly with the wrong track I’m afraid to listen to half of my good stuff. I’ve heard the standard Phi from a WA33 and loved it, but still wasn’t sure if it had enough impact for my hard hitting layered well mastered tech house, and indie electronica like Kiasmos, Christian Löffler, Gidge, Lycoriscoris, etc. Then I’m reading reviews on the CC pads saying they flatten out the bass even more. Trends like that have kept me clinging safely to my eq’d Audezes, but if what you say is true about the TC having the slam of the OG or more, improved resolution, no siblant highs, AND improved musicality..I’m going to need those asap.


----------



## tholt

kyle1010 said:


> Is this a safe place for richly layered electronic music loving bassheads?



I hope so! Otherwise I'll be hanging out by the exit


----------



## melb0028

kyle1010 said:


> Is this a safe place for richly layered electronic music loving bassheads? I think you and I have the exact same tastes in music and tonality. I’ve been chasing that sound you’re describing from headphones(Audezes)for years now and I think your post just pushed me over the edge to sell my LCD-4 and go TC. I’ve gone up the chain in dacs and amps all the way to my current setup of WA33/TT2 (sold my DAVE for sounding too thin) to try and get that middle of a Berlin techno club experiencing a Mind Against or Tale of Us set in the dark with minimal lighting design type of feeling. LCD-4 gets close but for true impactful four-four beat bass I have to eq them between TT2 and WA33 with a Schiit Loki. I don’t hear any loss of resolution, but it always feels wrong to have to go that route. Also the LCD-4’s peaky upper treble can take you out of the zone so quickly with the wrong track I’m afraid to listen to half of my good stuff. I’ve heard the standard Phi from a WA33 and loved it, but still wasn’t sure if it had enough impact for my hard hitting layered well mastered tech house, and indie electronica like Kiasmos, Christian Löffler, Gidge, Lycoriscoris, etc. Then I’m reading reviews on the CC pads saying they flatten out the bass even more. Trends like that have kept me clinging safely to my eq’d Audezes, but if what you say is true about the TC having the slam of the OG or more, improved resolution, no siblant highs, AND improved musicality..I’m going to need those asap.



From my experience the WA33 paired with the Abyss TC (on SC cable) has bass power, weight, texture, and slam in spades. Easily the best I've heard - man this TC can slam hard on electronic music or provide the most nuanced acoustic bass on jazz. Definitely earns the deepest Abyss name on this one. Compared to the Phi with deluxe cable, the TC with SC cable is in another league.  (and the Phi is truly amazing in its own right!)


----------



## kyle1010

tholt said:


> I hope so! Otherwise I'll be hanging out by the exit



When the transparency and trebleheads come’a commenting I’ll be right there with you brother like ok bye


----------



## kyle1010

melb0028 said:


> From my experience the WA33 paired with the Abyss TC (on SC cable) has bass power, weight, texture, and slam in spades. Easily the best I've heard - man this TC can slam hard on electronic music or provide the most nuanced acoustic bass on jazz. Definitely earns the deepest Abyss name on this one. Compared to the Phi with deluxe cable, the TC with SC cable is in another league.  (and the Phi is truly amazing in its own right!)


Wowwww ok if that’s so TC/SC is gonna happen then. Do you use a Shunyata power cable for your WA33? Can you notice any SQ differences vs stock on your Abyss TCs? I just ordered a Wireworld Silver Electra 7 to replace my crappy generic power cable feeding the WA33. It hasn’t arrived yet but I’m worried I’ll be returning it for doing nothing for the sound. Have to try it out at this level of amp I guess, right?


----------



## melb0028

kyle1010 said:


> Wowwww ok if that’s so TC/SC is gonna happen then. Do you use a Shunyata power cable for your WA33? Can you notice any SQ differences vs stock on your Abyss TCs? I just ordered a Wireworld Silver Electra 7 to replace my crappy generic power cable feeding the WA33. It hasn’t arrived yet but I’m worried I’ll be returning it for doing nothing for the sound. Have to try it out at this level of amp I guess, right?



Definitely worth a try for sure. Yep I hear a difference with the Shunyata cable on my WA33. Ive noticed improvements on every component I’ve tried it on regardless of the price.


----------



## galacticsoap

@kyle1010 - Apologies about the late reply, yes, I suspect the Abyss TC is precisely what you're looking for. It has absolutely everything purveyors of fine bass appreciate: Slam, extension, texture and of course PRAT.

It's a remarkable headphone.

It transports me to the best clubs I've been to i.e. Berghain/Panorama Bar, Watergate, DC10, Fabric etc...in truth the sound-quality of the TC's exceeds that of the high-end PA system's from the likes of Funktion 1, but as you and I both know going to these clubs is as much a psychological experience as it is a physical one and the Abyss TC with it's clarity and all out take on dynamics just takes you there. Enjoy!

I must resist reading what I've read about the WA33! It looks like my next inevitable upgrade. Having said that the Abyss TC's out of the Hugo TT2 are just brilliant.


----------



## galacticsoap

Just a comment on burn in. It took me about 20 to 30 hours for the bass to go from slightly uncontrolled and flabby to tight, deep, and tuneful.  YMMV.


----------



## cj3209

Picked a nice used phi CC and I'm literally blown away.  One thing I noticed is that they are pretty open and when I turn up the volume, my family can enjoy it as well...lol


----------



## Sound Trooper

I still debating internally on weather i should spring for the new Abyss TC. My current Phi+CC pads are still sounding mighty fine to me and all this upgrading is starting to wear me out a bit. I have not heard the new Abyss TC yet but I would assume that it sounds awesome. How much more "awesome-mer" will the Abyss TC be from the Abyss Phi is I think up for debate.

I'm just curious to know how many of the current Abyss Phi owners will be jumping to the new Abyss TC since there is no direct upgrade path available.


----------



## Sound Trooper

cj3209 said:


> Picked a nice used phi CC and I'm literally blown away.  One thing I noticed is that they are pretty open and when I turn up the volume, my family can enjoy it as well...lol


True! I always felt by turning up the volume on the Abyss is akin to moving forwards a few more rolls in a rock concert. Everything just seems to get more and more intense!


----------



## matthewhypolite

Sound Trooper said:


> I still debating internally on weather i should spring for the new Abyss TC. My current Phi+CC pads are still sounding mighty fine to me and all this upgrading is starting to wear me out a bit. I have not heard the new Abyss TC yet but I would assume that it sounds awesome. How much more "awesome-mer" will the Abyss TC be from the Abyss Phi is I think up for debate.
> 
> I'm just curious to know how many of the current Abyss Phi owners will be jumping to the new Abyss TC since there is no direct upgrade path available.



I'll be getting mines tomorrow. 



Sound Trooper said:


> True! I always felt by turning up the volume on the Abyss is akin to moving forwards a few more rolls in a rock concert. Everything just seems to get more and more intense!



The volume knob with the abyss is infectious, but dangerous, take care not to go too loud, the abyss will be fine, your ears won't.


----------



## kyle1010 (Mar 14, 2019)

galacticsoap said:


> @kyle1010 - Apologies about the late reply, yes, I suspect the Abyss TC is precisely what you're looking for. It has absolutely everything purveyors of fine bass appreciate: Slam, extension, texture and of course PRAT.
> 
> It's a remarkable headphone.
> 
> ...


Yeah I’m sold. The only question remaining is which cable, your Dana Lazuli Reference(or Ultra?), or the JPS superconductor. I’ve owned a standard Dana Lazuli on my LCD-Xs and loved it for the added note weight and improved imaging, but it did roll off a little treble extension. That’ll be a tough call on cables.

I just made the journey to DC10 and Fabric last summer, unforgettable nights. I liked Privilege(Ibiza)and Shelter(Amsterdam..Funktion 1 system in there)more but anything that sonically transports me back there or any world class techno venue is a must have regardless of cost. It’s totally a psychological experience and I hate to tell you this but WA33 is going to enhance that experience for you by a large amount. Talk about getting absolutely lost in the music my god that amp is phenomenal. I think my soul and system are ready for TC.


----------



## Sound Trooper

matthewhypolite said:


> I'll be getting mines tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> The volume knob with the abyss is infectious, but dangerous, take care not to go too loud, the abyss will be fine, your ears won't.



Please share your impressions as well. I am hesitating to try the Abyss TC, as they say, ignorance is bliss.


----------



## Allears79

galacticsoap said:


> @kyle1010 - Apologies about the late reply, yes, I suspect the Abyss TC is precisely what you're looking for. It has absolutely everything purveyors of fine bass appreciate: Slam, extension, texture and of course PRAT.
> 
> It's a remarkable headphone.
> 
> ...


I am curious to know more about the synergy between Abyss and the TT2 as this will probably be my next setup. I am considering buying the Superconductor cable and having the 1/4 plug for the TT2 front output. Will this be a good solution considering the 2 XLR outs in the back to feed the Abyss? Just want to make sure I buy this cable right to make the best use out of the TT2. Thanks!


----------



## Sound Trooper

Jammin’ with the Abyss Phi tonight 

Still sounding mighty fine!


----------



## Mikey99

Sound Trooper said:


> I still debating internally on weather i should spring for the new Abyss TC. My current Phi+CC pads are still sounding mighty fine to me and all this upgrading is starting to wear me out a bit. I have not heard the new Abyss TC yet but I would assume that it sounds awesome. How much more "awesome-mer" will the Abyss TC be from the Abyss Phi is I think up for debate.
> 
> I'm just curious to know how many of the current Abyss Phi owners will be jumping to the new Abyss TC since there is no direct upgrade path available.


I am going for it, just waiting for it to arrive at my dealers.


----------



## yakaway

I've been away from the forum for a while, but wanted to get some input on the new tc abyss headphones.

I bought the original abyss 1266 headphones over a year ago.  I was on the waitlist for the phi upgrade but never heard back from abyss.

At the 1 year mark, I reached out and they told me they no longer do the upgrade and there is no path to trade in,  trade up for tc.

How are you guys addressing this. Are you keeping your old set, selling it here or Ebay?  

Has anyone made the jump and was it worth it?


----------



## ra990

Allears79 said:


> I am curious to know more about the synergy between Abyss and the TT2 as this will probably be my next setup. I am considering buying the Superconductor cable and having the 1/4 plug for the TT2 front output. Will this be a good solution considering the 2 XLR outs in the back to feed the Abyss? Just want to make sure I buy this cable right to make the best use out of the TT2. Thanks!


I would highly recommend going with the 2 XLR outs from the back. The added power is definitely noticeable and the Abyss sound mighty fine being driven from the balanced outs of the Hugo TT2.


----------



## Allears79

ra990 said:


> I would highly recommend going with the 2 XLR outs from the back. The added power is definitely noticeable and the Abyss sound mighty fine being driven from the balanced outs of the Hugo TT2.


Are the JPS cable 2 XLR plugs compatible with the TT2 balanced outs form the back?


----------



## ra990

Allears79 said:


> Are the JPS cable 2 XLR plugs compatible with the TT2 balanced outs form the back?


No, you need female XLR 3 connectors on the cable for the Hugo TT2.


----------



## Allears79

ra990 said:


> No, you need female XLR 3 connectors on the cable for the Hugo TT2.


Any connector recommendations?
Also: how would you compare the Ether 2 and the Abyss, both using the TT2?


----------



## ra990

I reterminated my Dana Lazuli cable for the TT2's balanced outs. You can get adapters for your cables or get them made by someone who does cables. You want to use pins 2 and 3 on the Hugo2TT for balanced.

The Ether 2 is a really great headphone, very natural tone and great bass extension, probably my second favorite headphone. But the Abyss are in a different league.


----------



## mulder01

Sound Trooper said:


> Jammin’ with the Abyss Phi tonight
> 
> Still sounding mighty fine!


Got enough ferrite rings?!


----------



## Sound Trooper

mulder01 said:


> Got enough ferrite rings?!



Barely!


----------



## tholt

mulder01 said:


> Got enough ferrite rings?!



 I think I see space for onnnnnne more


----------



## phase0 (Mar 14, 2019)

Allears79 said:


> I am curious to know more about the synergy between Abyss and the TT2 as this will probably be my next setup. I am considering buying the Superconductor cable and having the 1/4 plug for the TT2 front output. Will this be a good solution considering the 2 XLR outs in the back to feed the Abyss? Just want to make sure I buy this cable right to make the best use out of the TT2. Thanks!



This is what Robb Watts just said on the HTT2 thread:


> Has anyone compared the SE (front) output on the Chord Hugo TT2 versus the XLR (rear) outputs using the Abyss Phi? Is there any SQ difference assuming I'm not listening too too loudly (-24H or so).





Rob Watts said:


> Only consider using the balanced if you are at +6H or above! So you are a long way from needing the XLR's.



I have a cable to run the Abyss from the XLR outputs. It seems a little bit louder but not as much as I would have thought given it's a lot more power. I don't have a solid way to volume adjust to compare but I am having trouble hearing any difference between the two connector methods... Right now I'm leaning towards 1/4" connector and call it good... You may sill want to get the dual XLR cable just to scratch that curiosity itch. Maybe you'll like it more. I also have a pair of powered monitors plugged into the HTT2, so I do like the auto-mute when you plugin the 1/4" HP connector...


----------



## galacticsoap

Allears79 said:
			
		

> I am curious to know more about the synergy between Abyss and the TT2 as this will probably be my next setup. I am considering buying the Superconductor cable and having the 1/4 plug for the TT2 front output. Will this be a good solution considering the 2 XLR outs in the back to feed the Abyss? Just want to make sure I buy this cable right to make the best use out of the TT2. Thanks!



I find the synergy quite pleasing. I traded off a smidge (technical term) of resolution for what I hear as a fuller, meatier tone in the TT2 compared to the DAVE. I gather the TT2 is being driven at gain given the "H"that appears next to the volume level. I usually listen at a high gain volume setting of -3 in Headphone mode. Perhaps that's a touch excessive. 

The TT2 provides enough dynamics and resolution to take my breath away, buuuuuttttt I don't have a point of reference to compare the new Phi TC against. As mentioned I'm resisting listening to the WA33.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Got the Tac in hand,

Probably not going to get time to listen tonight, but I'll give it a go tomorrow and over the weekend.


----------



## ra990

phase0 said:


> I have a cable to run the Abyss from the XLR outputs. It seems a little bit louder but not as much as I would have thought given it's a lot more power. I don't have a solid way to volume adjust to compare but I am having trouble hearing any difference between the two connector methods... Right now I'm leaning towards 1/4" connector and call it good... You may sill want to get the dual XLR cable just to scratch that curiosity itch. Maybe you'll like it more. I also have a pair of powered monitors plugged into the HTT2, so I do like the auto-mute when you plugin the 1/4" HP connector...


Your cable might not be wired correctly. If it's using pin 1 and 2, it's the same as single ended. Pin 2 and 3 are for balanced and it's noticeably louder for me.


----------



## phase0

ra990 said:


> Your cable might not be wired correctly. If it's using pin 1 and 2, it's the same as single ended. Pin 2 and 3 are for balanced and it's noticeably louder for me.



Well it certainly is noticeably louder, but not by as much as I would have expected I guess if we're going from around 2w to 18w ... anyways my approx attempts to level match it with the fumbling inbetween I'm not sure I can hear any diff between 1/4 and the XLR...


----------



## kyle1010

galacticsoap said:


> I find the synergy quite pleasing. I traded off a smidge (technical term) of resolution for what I hear as a fuller, meatier tone in the TT2 compared to the DAVE. I gather the TT2 is being driven at gain given the "H"that appears next to the volume level. I usually listen at a high gain volume setting of -3 in Headphone mode. Perhaps that's a touch excessive.
> 
> The TT2 provides enough dynamics and resolution to take my breath away, buuuuuttttt I don't have a point of reference to compare the new Phi TC against. As mentioned I'm resisting listening to the WA33.



@galacticsoap Do not resist..


----------



## Benny-x

melb0028 said:


> I’m listening to the Abyss TC through the WA33 - it is truly mind bending! Echoing the comments of galacticsoap, the TC is spectacular in resolution and musicality. I have never heard better from any headphone system in 20 years of listening. A truly astonishing accomplishment. Now back to enjoying the music



Did you try it with the WA33 Elite Edition as well? I've read a lot of back and forth about which version of that amp is preferred, so I wonder which might pair best with the new TC. Looking for impressions for now.


----------



## Benny-x

kyle1010 said:


> Is this a safe place for richly layered electronic music loving bassheads? I think you and I have the exact same tastes in music and tonality. I’ve been chasing that sound you’re describing from headphones(Audezes)for years now and I think your post just pushed me over the edge to sell my LCD-4 and go TC. I’ve gone up the chain in dacs and amps all the way to my current setup of WA33/TT2 (sold my DAVE for sounding too thin) to try and get that middle of a Berlin techno club experiencing a Mind Against or Tale of Us set in the dark with minimal lighting design type of feeling. LCD-4 gets close but for true impactful four-four beat bass I have to eq them between TT2 and WA33 with a Schiit Loki. I don’t hear any loss of resolution, but it always feels wrong to have to go that route. Also the LCD-4’s peaky upper treble can take you out of the zone so quickly with the wrong track I’m afraid to listen to half of my good stuff. I’ve heard the standard Phi from a WA33 and loved it, but still wasn’t sure if it had enough impact for my hard hitting layered well mastered tech house, and indie electronica like Kiasmos, Christian Löffler, Gidge, Lycoriscoris, etc. Then I’m reading reviews on the CC pads saying they flatten out the bass even more. Trends like that have kept me clinging safely to my eq’d Audezes, but if what you say is true about the TC having the slam of the OG or more, improved resolution, no siblant highs, AND improved musicality..I’m going to need those asap.



Haha, as I read his feedback I was thinking "this has got to be paid for...". It's like a checkbox, "we need a 'review' for the electronica listeners that'll stop them in their tracks and send them right to the TC checkout". And there they have it. 

I also read that thinking, yeah, my vein of electronica is a bit different, I'm feeling a lot of synthwave and chill-house lately, but everything he's saying resonates with me and those are all issues I've had while dealing with headphone, amp, and DAC choice over the past 10 years. Looks like the TC might be the one for me. At least I'm not alone in feeling in tune, and maybe "taken", by that post 

I'm looking forward to running the TCs off the collection of amps I've built up, though. I -REALLY- wonder if this current mode F1J might make them sing anything special?


----------



## deuter

What electronic music do you guys listen to?


----------



## galacticsoap

@Benny-x  LOL! I assure you guys my impressions weren't paid for, but I can understand how some would arrive at that conclusion given how effusive my thoughts were. But no, just a massive fan at being able connect closer with my music. 

@deuter - I listen to a ton of music from established producers and DJ's such as: John Digweed, Sasha, Guy J, Nick Warren, pretty much the entire AnjunaDeep stable through to Trentemoller, Patrice Bummel, Maceo Plex, Carl Craig etc...etc..etc and stuff from the likes of Jon Hopkins and Olafur Arnulds. Many artists and producers I love who I haven't listed.


----------



## melb0028

Benny-x said:


> Did you try it with the WA33 Elite Edition as well? I've read a lot of back and forth about which version of that amp is preferred, so I wonder which might pair best with the new TC. Looking for impressions for now.


I haven't heard the WA33 Elite- I'm sure its amazing!  I'm more than thrilled though using the Abyss TC on the standard edition with upgraded tubes.


----------



## matthewhypolite (Mar 15, 2019)

Unboxed, and burning in......


----------



## ufospls2

matthewhypolite said:


> Unboxed, and burning in......



.....whoa.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Has anyone spent enough time comparing the Phi to the TC to give a qualified description of the SQ difference at this point?


----------



## matthewhypolite

mt-hifidelity said:


> Has anyone spent enough time comparing the Phi to the TC to give a qualified description of the SQ difference at this point?



I'll be able to give some initial thoughts after the weekend, with more fleshed out thoughts in 2 weeks time.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

matthewhypolite said:


> I'll be able to give some initial thoughts after the weekend, with more fleshed out thoughts in 2 weeks time.


Thanks!  Looking forward.


----------



## Benny-x

matthewhypolite said:


> Unboxed, and burning in......


It's too bad (for us) that you still haven't heard the standard WA33. You've got all the toys that could provide a well-rounded answer of how the WA33 vs. the EE compare across different headphones. And you seem to like music like I do too.

I've read your initial WA33 review from last year (thanks for that one, I'm a current LAu owner), but now that you've got the TC there, the Abyss Phi CC, AND the Susvara, it'd be pretty cool to hear your thoughts across them when fed from a Tier 1 amp, and with electronic music~


----------



## lambdastorm (Mar 15, 2019)

matthewhypolite said:


> Unboxed, and burning in......


Holy schiit, champ original versus champ reimagined, this comparison's gonna be interesting. And is that an OG or an OG with Phi drivers?


----------



## Benny-x

galacticsoap said:


> @Benny-x  LOL! I assure you guys my impressions weren't paid for, but I can understand how some would arrive at that conclusion given how effusive my thoughts were. But no, just a massive fan at being able connect closer with my music.


I was just poking fun at how "aligned" the feedback was. Even another guy chimed in too about how it seemed to hit on all the "but what about all my bass" concerns we have when buying f**cked off headphone gear that's way too much money. It was good, I liked it. 

I've been moving closer to the Abyss headphones over the past year anyway, so now that there have been 2 releases already (CC and now TC), and the TC feedback compares favourably in the bass department and the mids with the OG and other more "even" headphones, it's really pushing me towards that checkout cart. The $6000 price of the Abyss TC also helps offset the perceived lack of value of a 3m SuperConductor cable. It's now -only- 1/3 to 1/2 of the cost of the headphones. That's right in line with normal aftermarket upgrades for more normally priced headphones 



melb0028 said:


> I haven't heard the WA33 Elite- I'm sure its amazing!  I'm more than thrilled though using the Abyss TC on the standard edition with upgraded tubes.


I've read on a few forums now that some people prefer the standard WA33 over the EE. They say the EE is a little too lush sounding and rolls off some parts. That the standard WA33 is a better "complete" package vs. the EE being a better subjective package if your particular tastes go that way. I have no idea, but it's an interesting concept to subscribe to when the EE is $7K more and you still have to sort yourself out with aftermarket tubes...

I think what you have there is something I'll have to consider shooting for once I get the TC in house and the Cayin HA-300 later this year. I'm excited about the HA-300, it'll be my second foray into tubes, but about 1o years since the first one.


----------



## Benny-x

lambdastorm said:


> Holy schiit, champ original versus champ reimagined, this comparison's gonna be interesting. And is that an OG or an OG with CC drivers?


It's a Phi + CC pads, not an OG. Though I can't recall (I'm just a low-level stalker, I should be fired) whether he had the OG first and then upgraded to the Phi, before going Phi CC-pads, or not.


----------



## lambdastorm

Benny-x said:


> It's a Phi + CC pads, not an OG. Though I can't recall (I'm just a low-level stalker, I should be fired) whether he had the OG first and then upgraded to the Phi, before going Phi CC-pads, or not.


I see. But if memory serves me right only OGs have glossy finish, Phi has matte finish all along even before CC came out. I could be wrong though.



Benny-x said:


> I was just poking fun at how "aligned" the feedback was. Even another guy chimed in too about how it seemed to hit on all the "but what about all my bass" concerns we have when buying f**cked off headphone gear that's way too much money. It was good, I liked it.


That another guy's probably me lol. Unashamed OG whore here, luv dat bass.


----------



## matthewhypolite (Mar 15, 2019)

Benny-x said:


> It's too bad (for us) that you still haven't heard the standard WA33. You've got all the toys that could provide a well-rounded answer of how the WA33 vs. the EE compare across different headphones. And you seem to like music like I do too.
> 
> I've read your initial WA33 review from last year (thanks for that one, I'm a current LAu owner), but now that you've got the TC there, the Abyss Phi CC, AND the Susvara, it'd be pretty cool to hear your thoughts across them when fed from a Tier 1 amp, and with electronic music~


 
Also have the Utopia as well 

I have my old headroom amp there I can try them on that, but a stock wa33 would be alot better than that. Based on the improved sound of the EE with upgraded tubes, I'd think the wa33 std + upgraded tubes will sound better than a stock Elite.



lambdastorm said:


> Holy schiit, champ original versus champ reimagined, this comparison's gonna be interesting. And is that an OG or an OG with Phi drivers?



It was an OG sent in for the phi driver upgrades  and CC pads added.



Benny-x said:


> It's a Phi + CC pads, not an OG. Though I can't recall (I'm just a low-level stalker, I should be fired) whether he had the OG first and then upgraded to the Phi, before going Phi CC-pads, or not.



I lived with the OG for a few years before the phi upgrade was made available.


All that said, I am very familiar with every version of the abyss as I've owned them all for a significant amount of time. I have previous writeups and comparison of the OG vs the Phi, then with the CC pads added. I'll use that as a reference for the phi+cc vs TC comparison. And though it's been a while now, i still remeber how the OG sounded and what it's strenghts and weaknesses were.

But I can say that I prefer the phi with cc pads alot over the OG.


----------



## mulder01

Benny-x said:


> I've read on a few forums now that some people prefer the standard WA33 over the EE. They say the EE is a little too lush sounding and rolls off some parts. That the standard WA33 is a better "complete" package vs. the EE being a better subjective package if your particular tastes go that way. I have no idea, but it's an interesting concept to subscribe to when the EE is $7K more and you still have to sort yourself out with aftermarket tubes...


I've had a friend say the same thing - that the standard version sounds better...  Sounds like it's definitely worth organising an audition before purchase.


----------



## matthewhypolite (Mar 16, 2019)

mulder01 said:


> I've had a friend say the same thing - that the standard version sounds better...  Sounds like it's definitely worth organising an audition before purchase.



You'll get folks on either end. Just like their are folks that say the OG sounds Better than the phi. But imho the phi >>> og.

I spoke to a few trusted members who has heard both wa33 std and ee. As well as Jack Wu, Joe, Jason from TheSorce, and a few others. And after much deliberation and consultation I decided on the EE.

But I'll say again, the stock tubes aren't that great. So which ever version you guys go for, budget for a tube upgrade. Total cost for the tubes I'm running is just over $5k. Stock tubes run about $350.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Also I'll add, based on the improvements I've heard about of std vs EE, I'd recon that folks who prefer OG would prefer std wa33.

Above in the thread someone compared the EE to being more lush. I don't exactly agree with how it was phrased but the same can be said for OG vs Phi. 

If you prefer a more raw, unrifined presentation, the OG+Std WA33 may be the way to go. If you want something more refined, full bodied, enjoyable. Phi+EE. 

But of course the std is still a great amp and you won't go wrong either way. (provided you upgrade those tubes, that's a muss, completely transformed the EE for me)


----------



## joseph69

Benny-x said:


> I've read a lot of back and forth about which version of that amp is preferred


Maybe I missed where 'a lot of this back and forth" was posted. Would you mind sharing where you've read this, please?



matthewhypolite said:


> Also have the Utopia as well


I thought the Utopia was long gone?
Congratulations on the TC.


----------



## matthewhypolite

joseph69 said:


> Maybe I missed where 'a lot of this back and forth" was posted. Would you mind sharing where you've read this, please?
> 
> I thought the Utopia was long gone?
> Congratulations on the TC.



I put it up for sale, but a friend in my home country wants it, I'll get it to him when I head back around Aug for vacation. Until then, it's still around.


----------



## kyle1010

matthewhypolite said:


> I'll be able to give some initial thoughts after the weekend, with more fleshed out thoughts in 2 weeks time.



Amazing setup you have. A couple questions. Are the TCs more of a grey color overall or is that just the ceramic coating highly reflecting your camera flash? Can you post a pic or two without flash? I thought they were a ceramic black or very dark grey. Also, are you running that fantasy system off a Yggdrasil? Curious as that’s all I see in the pics and in your reviews.


----------



## Benny-x

joseph69 said:


> Maybe I missed where 'a lot of this back and forth" was posted. Would you mind sharing where you've read this, please?


No, I didn't articulate what I was trying to get across very well in that post and what I followed up with is, I believe, more reflective of what I meant to say. 

This is the topic I was poking at:


Benny-x said:


> I've read on a few forums now that some people prefer the standard WA33 over the EE. They say the EE is a little too lush sounding and rolls off some parts (or something like that). That the standard WA33 is a better "complete" package vs. *the EE being a better subjective package if your particular tastes go that way.* I have no idea, but it's an interesting concept to subscribe to when the EE is $7K more and you still have to sort yourself out with aftermarket tubes...


----------



## matthewhypolite (Mar 17, 2019)

kyle1010 said:


> Amazing setup you have. A couple questions. Are the TCs more of a grey color overall or is that just the ceramic coating highly reflecting your camera flash? Can you post a pic or two without flash? I thought they were a ceramic black or very dark grey. Also, are you running that fantasy system off a Yggdrasil? Curious as that’s all I see in the pics and in your reviews.



Sure i can take a non-flash photo of it. But side by side the TC looks considerably lighter color than the Abyss. I really like the look and feel tbh. OG coating looks and feel very raw and aggressive. The new coating looks and feel very elegant and sophisticated.

And yes mate, i know the yggy is the weak link atm. Which is why i am current dac shopping. I decided to focus on amp stage first. Now that im comfortable there, time to focus on dac. Currently the items on the shortlist are:

Dave + M scaler
MSB Discrete + Power Base
MSB Premier Stock (ill go with this one, if i think id want to upgrade to femto clock, but if igo with pemier, when im finished with upgrades, i'm looking at around $35k final price for fully tricked out dac, vs $15k for the dave kit, or $20k for the discrete kit. so thinking through all of these things for the past few weeks, either way. i'll be doing my dac upgrade before year end.)


----------



## kyle1010 (Mar 17, 2019)

matthewhypolite said:


> Sure i can take a non-flash photo of it. But side by side the TC looks considerably lighter color than the Abyss. I really like the look and feel tbh. OG coating looks and feel very raw and aggressive. The new coating looks and feel very elegant and sophisticated.
> 
> And yes mate, i know the yggy is the weak link atm. Which is why i am current dac shopping. I decided to focus on amp stage first. Now that im comfortable there, time to focus on dac. Currently the items on the shortlist are:
> 
> ...



Ahh ok. More pics are certainly welcome! It’s tough to get an idea how the TC really looks cuz the ones on the Abyss website look a little darker(which I like).

Have you considered dCS Rossini dac? I’ve actually heard that one on a standard WA33 with KR 2A3s and Takatsuki 274b rectifier with the original Abyss Phi and it was hands down the best thing I’ve ever heard through headphones. Destroyed the Sennheiser HE-1, which honestly makes sense..its dac and tubes can’t really compete here. I remember hearing the Blu/Dave combo that same day(CanJam SoCal) by itself and thinking it’s probably not a fair comparison cuz Rosinni was played through an amp, but Blu/Dave had the most micro detail I’d ever heard in headphones(my own LCD-4s for the demo), but it was kinda dry and technical. I’ve owned a solo Dave and sold it for that exact reason..even through tubes it was too dry for me. The Rossini/WA33/Phi was extremely close in detail but far more full and musical. Most likely was the tubes but yeah. I think it’s a matter of taste at this level of dacs. If you’re a technical sound/transparency fan, I’d go high-end Chord. Analog/musicality fan, dCS or MSB.


----------



## matthewhypolite

kyle1010 said:


> Ahh ok. More pics are certainly welcome! It’s tough to get an idea how the TC really looks cuz the ones on the Abyss website look a little darker(which I like).
> 
> Have you considered dCS Rossini dac? I’ve actually heard that one on a standard WA33 with KR 2A3s and Takatsuki 274b rectifier with the original Abyss Phi and it was hands down the best thing I’ve ever heard through headphones. Destroyed the Sennheiser HE-1, which honestly makes sense..its dac and tubes can’t really compete here. I remember hearing the Blu/Dave combo that same day(CanJam SoCal) by itself and thinking it’s probably not a fair comparison cuz Rosinni was played through an amp, but Blu/Dave had the most micro detail I’d ever heard in headphones(my own LCD-4s for the demo), but it was kinda dry and technical. I’ve owned a solo Dave and sold it for that exact reason..even through tubes it was too dry for me. The Rossini/WA33/Phi was extremely close in detail but far more full and musical. Most likely was the tubes but yeah. I think it’s a matter of taste at this level of dacs. If you’re a technical sound/transparency fan, I’d go high-end Chord. Analog/musicality fan, dCS or MSB.




I'll add the dcs to the shortlist, and dry is the opposite of what I want. I prefer analog, natural, but still want that resolution and mciro detail. It's the whole reason I went tubes, to add that musicality. And I can dial it in more or less base on the tubes I slot in. Currently I'm running a WE284b rectifier, becuase i thought the Takatsuki added too much bloom. The WE still sounds musical, and organic, but tightens up the bottom end. I'd like my dac to reflect that. And your not the first person I've spoken to who said the chord stuff is a bit dry and clinical sounding. P. S., I was going to grab a set of kr this year, but I'll forgoe that until next year. Already got some great tubes so dac next.


----------



## kyle1010

matthewhypolite said:


> I'll add the dcs to the shortlist, and dry is the opposite of what I want. I prefer analog, natural, but still want that resolution and mciro detail. It's the whole reason I went tubes, to add that musicality. And I can dial it in more or less base on the tubes I slot in. Currently I'm running a WE284b rectifier, becuase i thought the Takatsuki added too much bloom. The WE still sounds musical, and organic, but tightens up the bottom end. I'd like my dac to reflect that. And your not the first person I've spoken to who said the chord stuff is a bit dry and clinical sounding. P. S., I was going to grab a set of kr this year, but I'll forgoe that until next year. Already got some great tubes so dac next.


I have the exact same tastes so I would take the dCS in a heartbeat. I use a WE422a in my WA33 from time to time and it too sounds very natural, but I like a little more  bloom in the bottom end so I think I’ll look into getting that Takatsuki. Do you still have yours? I’ll probably go with the KR 2A3s soon as well. Anything else is extremely hard to audition, but at least I’ve heard those with the Abyss Phi and was blown away so I know what I’m getting into.


----------



## matthewhypolite

kyle1010 said:


> I have the exact same tastes so I would take the dCS in a heartbeat. I use a WE422a in my WA33 from time to time and it too sounds very natural, but I like a little more  bloom in the bottom end so I think I’ll look into getting that Takatsuki. Do you still have yours? I’ll probably go with the KR 2A3s soon as well. Anything else is extremely hard to audition, but at least I’ve heard those with the Abyss Phi and was blown away so I know what I’m getting into.



Yes I still have the taks, snagged it for about 750 on ebay new. I used to slot it in now and then depending on the genre, but haven't in a while as I really like the sound of the WE. I'll test it out with the TC though.

The RCA Monoplates power tubes are magical. I don't expect the KRs to beat them. But having a diff flavor of tubes on hand would be nice.

P.s. Currently researching the dac


----------



## Zhanming057

matthewhypolite said:


> Yes I still have the taks, snagged it for about 750 on ebay new. I used to slot it in now and then depending on the genre, but haven't in a while as I really like the sound of the WE. I'll test it out with the TC though.
> 
> The RCA Monoplates power tubes are magical. I don't expect the KRs to beat them. But having a diff flavor of tubes on hand would be nice.
> 
> P.s. Currently researching the dac



Before you pull the trigger on any of the MSB DAC's, I would recommend checking out the following:

- Nagra Classic/HD DAC. This is possibly the best Delta-Sigma DAC on the planet. It'll happily run on 12v and is incredibly "no-fuss" with a built-in upsampler and great USB treatment.
- Linn Klimax DSM3. This DAC is absolutely amazing and has an incredible feature set, including automatic room adjustments for 2-channel use. If price was no object and I didn't mind the lack of USB, this is the DAC I would go for.
- Vermeer Two. Great streaming features and an incredibly solid DAC. 

MSB I am not very familiar with, but I have heard conflicting reports of the quality of their non-flagship DAC's. DCS I am fairly familiar with, and while the Rossini is a world-class DAC in its own right, I don't like how DCS nickels and dimes you for the upsampler and master clock while it would not be substantively costly to at least integrate one of the two into the DAC itself. It feels "greedy" to me - although if I could find a Vivaldi at the right price with the upsampler (which is of crucial importance to the Vivaldi's sound), I would go for it without hesitation.


----------



## Zhanming057

mulder01 said:


> I've had a friend say the same thing - that the standard version sounds better...  Sounds like it's definitely worth organising an audition before purchase.




I don't recall the EE being any less technically strong or rolled off than the standard version. Tubes will make the biggest difference either way, and there is little point of running either version on stock tubes.

Woo wants its amps to be platforms of tube-rolling. Bundling in expensive tubes that may not be to everyone's taste doesn't make sense given that objective.

That said, I do consider the Viva 845 - or 845 power amps - to have better overall synergy with the Abyss Phi than any 2a3 amp. The WA33e is to me an endgame pairing to the Utopia, and the Abyss works better with an even "tighter" signature which the 845 happily provides.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Zhanming057 said:


> Before you pull the trigger on any of the MSB DAC's, I would recommend checking out the following:
> 
> - Nagra Classic/HD DAC. This is possibly the best Delta-Sigma DAC on the planet. It'll happily run on 12v and is incredibly "no-fuss" with a built-in upsampler and great USB treatment.
> - Linn Klimax DSM3. This DAC is absolutely amazing and has an incredible feature set, including automatic room adjustments for 2-channel use. If price was no object and I didn't mind the lack of USB, this is the DAC I would go for.
> ...


Thanks mate, I'll have a look. 

I see dcs also has the vivaldi, which is their flagship


----------



## mulder01

Zhanming057 said:


> I don't recall the EE being any less technically strong or rolled off than the standard version. Tubes will make the biggest difference either way, and there is little point of running either version on stock tubes.
> 
> Woo wants its amps to be platforms of tube-rolling. Bundling in expensive tubes that may not be to everyone's taste doesn't make sense given that objective.
> 
> That said, I do consider the Viva 845 - or 845 power amps - to have better overall synergy with the Abyss Phi than any 2a3 amp. The WA33e is to me an endgame pairing to the Utopia, and the Abyss works better with an even "tighter" signature which the 845 happily provides.



Not my words - I've never heard either, and I'm not sure how people can accurately compare tube amps with different tubes in them - how do you evaluate an amp who's objective is to be as true to the tubes as possible without knowing the sound of that particular set of tubes.  Maybe some people do have an intimate knowledge of a number of sets of tubes and can use the same headphones to test every time, but I'd guess that's often not the case.  Anyway... Like I said, I was just mentioning that I'd heard the same thing as Benny-x.  
Full disclosure, I think the other member (who doesn't post on here anymore) was not really a fan of the woo house sound - didn't particularly like the 234's or anything - I believe he had tried all their amps and didn't like any of them except for the wa33 std edition (I assume upgraded tubes).  So maybe if you ARE a fan of the woo sound, the wa33 standard may not be your cup of tea?  I may be paraphrasing - his comments were made a while ago many pages back.
As I have said a hundred times (and always fallen on deaf ears) that shows the importance of auditioning things for yourself.


----------



## matthewhypolite

mulder01 said:


> Not my words - I've never heard either, and I'm not sure how people can accurately compare tube amps with different tubes in them - how do you evaluate an amp who's objective is to be as true to the tubes as possible without knowing the sound of that particular set of tubes.  Maybe some people do have an intimate knowledge of a number of sets of tubes and can use the same headphones to test every time, but I'd guess that's often not the case.  Anyway... Like I said, I was just mentioning that I'd heard the same thing as Benny-x.
> Full disclosure, I think the other member (who doesn't post on here anymore) was not really a fan of the woo house sound - didn't particularly like the 234's or anything - I believe he had tried all their amps and didn't like any of them except for the wa33 std edition (I assume upgraded tubes).  So maybe if you ARE a fan of the woo sound, the wa33 standard may not be your cup of tea?  I may be paraphrasing - his comments were made a while ago many pages back.
> As I have said a hundred times (and always fallen on deaf ears) that shows the importance of auditioning things for yourself.


Not everyone is in the position of being able to audition  themselves and rely on the opinions of those of us here who are. I myself fall into that category and really appriciate the opinions and writeups of many on the forum to help guide my decision.

It's because of that I try my best to provide as much information and be as transparent as possible in my contributions to help those in a similar position.


----------



## tholt

matthewhypolite said:


> Not everyone is in the position of being able to audition  themselves and rely on the opinions of those of us here who are. I myself fall into that category and really appriciate the opinions and writeups of many on the forum to help guide my decision.



+1


----------



## mulder01

That's all well and good if there's consistency in opinions - if we all heard the same thing then yeah, sure, that's a great way of doing things.  I have found in the past that 90% of users can report a significant improvement/ a 'night and day' difference with a product that I am 100% confident I would fail a blind test because I found the difference to be so small, if anything at all.  I remember back in my pre-abyss days people raving about the LCD3's bass but after listening to them, I thought it was entirely missing compared to the LCDX.  
Let's be real.  If you can afford a $20k amplifier for your headphones, you can afford a plane ticket to go anywhere in the world and listen to at least 2 contenders side by side.  I dunno what the prices of plane tickets are for you, but from Australia, you can go anywhere in the world and back for under $1500 USD.  If you get to compare just 4 $20k pieces of equipment on your trip, you may end up liking something that costs less even more than the other things you've bought and sold because of head fi recommendations.  Fair enough if your budget is $199, but at this price level, there is no excuse not to audition yourself.  If you were tossing up whether or not it's worth going for the wa33 or the wa33 elite for example,  You could know for sure for the price of one set of tubes, and might save yourself $7k in the process.  There ain't nobody demoing a wa33 near me, but if I was in the market for one, I sure as crap wouldn't buy one blind.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Money isn't the only issue, there is this precious thing called time and availability, not everyone can jsut pick up and fly off to go audition something whenever an audition is available. 

Ive never even been to a CanJam, not because I can't afford to go. It's because there's this thing called life I need to also attend to lol. And when I do travel, it's with family for vacation. 

I hope one day my schedule does line up where I can go audition some stuff. But your entire premise is flawed, what are you even doing on the forums if folks opinions are meaningless?

Anyways, to each his own.

When the planets align and I can find time to fly off and audition several different high end dacs I'll let u know. In the mean time, ima keep reading and guide my decision from an intelligent distilling of opinions, and lend weight to the ones that favor my listening preferences. 

Hasn't failed me yet


----------



## mulder01

I've learned to treat the forum as a chat room rather than a place for factual research.  I bet the number of people that have bought and sold Utopias, Daves, Ragnaroks and the like, because they bought off head-fi community hype would be staggering if you could get honest information out of people.
If you're tossing up between $30k dacs then I would _make time_ - same as you _make time_ to spend probably thousands of hours with your gear.  If you were as pressed for free time as you say, then you would have no time for your gear and it would be pointless owning it.  
You're not that far from the 'States - you could make it a one day trip if you wanted.  If your wife and family are understanding enough to let you spend $100k on headphone gear, then I'm sure you could swing a weekend away.
On top of differences in subjective opinions, when you're talking products of that calibre, you don't know who has a vested interest in what, and who's friends with who, and who just gushes about their gear to ensure the maximum resale value. etc. etc.
As you say though, we all have our methods.  Agree to disagree I think.


----------



## FLTWS (Mar 19, 2019)

*Day*; it makes sound / *Night*; it makes no sound.
I find the recorded listening experience to be one of subtleties not absolutes until I get to the HP (or speakers) where it becomes fairly obvious most of the time and more connected to my preferences to a much higher degree and any absolutes are my own and not representative of another listener's.


----------



## Benny-x

FLTWS said:


> *Day*; it makes sound / *Night*; it makes no sound.
> I find the recorded listening experience to be one of subtleties not absolutes until I get to the HP (or speakers) where it becomes fairly obvious most of the time and more connected to my preferences to a much higher degree and the absolutes are my own and not representative of another listener's.



I can't recall if you shared your input on your aftermarket cables before, but can you tell me about the differneces/benefits of the Phi's sound with your:
1. JPS Labs SC
2.DanaCable Ultra & Nirvana and Stock (these are 3 different cables?)

And how you found the cable differences worked vs. just using a completely different amp?


----------



## FLTWS

I did just that back on 3/3 check the showcase, and I used 1 tube and 1 SS amp.


----------



## matthewhypolite

mulder01 said:


> I've learned to treat the forum as a chat room rather than a place for factual research.  I bet the number of people that have bought and sold Utopias, Daves, Ragnaroks and the like, because they bought off head-fi community hype would be staggering if you could get honest information out of people.
> If you're tossing up between $30k dacs then I would _make time_ - same as you _make time_ to spend probably thousands of hours with your gear.  If you were as pressed for free time as you say, then you would have no time for your gear and it would be pointless owning it.
> You're not that far from the 'States - you could make it a one day trip if you wanted.  If your wife and family are understanding enough to let you spend $100k on headphone gear, then I'm sure you could swing a weekend away.
> On top of differences in subjective opinions, when you're talking products of that calibre, you don't know who has a vested interest in what, and who's friends with who, and who just gushes about their gear to ensure the maximum resale value. etc. etc.
> As you say though, we all have our methods.  Agree to disagree I think.



You some how seem to have figured out my life and my timing and what i am and am not able to do lol. For the record, i rarely just sit and listen to music and do nothing else, im usually always working whiles i listen. Also, wisking away to audition a product is not as easy as you're making it sound. Audition a product, where, when? When i have time to fly , will an audition just be sat waiting for me, aligned with my availability? I actually booked a ticket for an event one time, and had to cancel due to work.

Please dont presume to know what someone else's life is like, and what they can and cannot do.

That being said,  i believe their are several honest folks on the forums that will give you a fair opinion. And you can easily see who's biased to a particular brand, or sound and gauge inputs from multiple sources (not just head-fi).
I've never bought a piece of hifi gear based on proper research and has been disappointed with it.

Anyways, let me know where and when i can go audition all these products side by side, and ill see if it's possible for me to make the trip at that time.
Dave+Mscaler, MSB Discrete, Nagra, Rossini.


----------



## Articnoise

It's allways best to test gear at home under wellknown condition IMO.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Articnoise said:


> It's allways best to test gear at home under wellknown condition IMO.


Agreed. With well known music. And sometimes even a short demo of gear isn't enough unless you have a very trained ear.


----------



## bfreedma

matthewhypolite said:


> You some how seem to have figured out my life and my timing and what i am and am not able to do lol. For the record, i rarely just sit and listen to music and do nothing else, im usually always working whiles i listen. Also, wisking away to audition a product is not as easy as you're making it sound. Audition a product, where, when? When i have time to fly , will an audition just be sat waiting for me, aligned with my availability? I actually booked a ticket for an event one time, and had to cancel due to work.
> 
> Please dont presume to know what someone else's life is like, and what they can and cannot do.
> 
> ...




I believe all of those are available in New York City, though not at the same store.  I know travel takes time, but that might be achievable in a weekend.

I'll be in the city next month and can scout it out if you're interested.  My guess is with the budget you're looking at, the stores can get anything not normally available for a pre-arranged demo.


----------



## matthewhypolite

bfreedma said:


> I believe all of those are available in New York City, though not at the same store.  I know travel takes time, but that might be achievable in a weekend.
> 
> I'll be in the city next month and can scout it out if you're interested.  My guess is with the budget you're looking at, the stores can get anything not normally available for a pre-arranged demo.


 
Appriciated, let me know what you find.

Thanks


----------



## bfreedma

matthewhypolite said:


> Appriciated, let me know what you find.
> 
> Thanks



As if I needed an excuse to visit the high end audio stores 

Will let you know.


----------



## Allears79

bfreedma said:


> As if I needed an excuse to visit the high end audio stores
> 
> Will let you know.


What are your favorite stores in NYC where you would be able to audition these? Much of the stores I know in the city sells the entry / mid hi-end gear but I find very difficult to locate a dealer with a Dave+Mscaler for testing, as an example.

Would be glad to get some recommendations once I live in NY


----------



## bfreedma

Allears79 said:


> What are your favorite stores in NYC where you would be able to audition these? Much of the stores I know in the city sells the entry / mid hi-end gear but I find very difficult to locate a dealer with a Dave+Mscaler for testing, as an example.
> 
> Would be glad to get some recommendations once I live in NY



In no particular order:

Lyric Hi-Fi
Audio 46
Sound by Singer
Park Ave Audio
Devialet/Sonos (if you're looking for those brands specifically)
Woo Audio

Stereo Exchange - they have a lot of great gear, but I really dislike this store due to the sales reps.  Be prepared to be sized up and blown off if you don't appear wealthy.


----------



## erpguru

Anyone with experience of a LCD-4 (presently own) vs an Alpha Phi TC? As someone else also stated, I am a recovering bass-head and have come to really appreciate the planar bass sound..how would one compare the Phi TC vs the LCD-4, is the Abyss darker in presentation overall? Has anyone experienced _sibilance_ with the Abyss, is the high end brighter or about the same as the LCD? I am going to do the rental through cableco once they are available as they currently only have the phi but not the tc and want to be sure to listen to the exact model as it appears that the sound signature can vary quite a bit with their revisions...


----------



## lambdastorm (Mar 18, 2019)

bfreedma said:


> In no particular order:
> 
> Lyric Hi-Fi
> Audio 46
> ...


Agreed. Those folks at Stereo Exchange are douchebags.

LyricHiFi carries Magnepans and that's always a plus. I demoed the Mini Maggies there a year ago and that's hands down the best 2.1 desktop system I've ever heard. They might lack bass but the soundstage and imaging is every bit as wonderful as Magnepan's more premium offerings.

Park Ave Audio on the other hand has both a nice selection of gears and some of the friendliest folks around. Regardless if your a newbie on the look out for a pair of $50 headphone or an experienced audiowizard owning millions worth of gears they would turn on each and every equipment for your entertainment. The store owner is very easy-going and would talk with you for hours even if you aren't looking to buy gears. Great selection, zero pressure. You'll walk out with a smile on your face.


----------



## mulder01

Onya bfreedma!
Yes I would imagine with that budget, any reseller/retailer would be more than accommodating.  I'd say you would probably need to call and make some appointments beforehand so that it was set up and ready before you got there, as they are probably not your usual requested demo items.  At the HIGH high end, dealers may have to organise loan units off the manufacturers for you.
Extended in home audition would be great if you had the cash to splash on buying them all and taking a $50% loss on whatever you sell, but man, that's an expensive audition with the gear you're talking...


----------



## bfreedma

mulder01 said:


> Onya bfreedma!
> Yes I would imagine with that budget, any reseller/retailer would be more than accommodating.  I'd say you would probably need to call and make some appointments beforehand so that it was set up and ready before you got there, as they are probably not your usual requested demo items.  At the HIGH high end, dealers may have to organise loan units off the manufacturers for you.
> Extended in home audition would be great if you had the cash to splash on buying them all and taking a $50% loss on whatever you sell, but man, that's an expensive audition with the gear you're talking...




Thanks,

Agree that the stores will probably need some lead time to get specific units, but figure if they see someone doing legwork for an out of town visitor, it will make for more of an appearance of a serious buyer and motivate the stores to get on it.  
Would it appear any less magnanimous if part of the reason I was doing it was to have an excuse to break away while my wife does her shopping?.  Not that I mind touring the NYC hi-fi scene and would do it anyway, but this looks like a win for me as well as helping out a fellow head-FIer...

It's gonna cost @matthewhypolite though - at least one beer and possibly two!


----------



## matthewhypolite

bfreedma said:


> Thanks,
> 
> Agree that the stores will probably need some lead time to get specific units, but figure if they see someone doing legwork for an out of town visitor, it will make for more of an appearance of a serious buyer and motivate the stores to get on it.
> Would it appear any less magnanimous if part of the reason I was doing it was to have an excuse to break away while my wife does her shopping?.  Not that I mind touring the NYC hi-fi scene and would do it anyway, but this looks like a win for me as well as helping out a fellow head-FIer...
> ...



Deal!


----------



## jlbrach

park avenue audio is of the group listed the nicest and easiest to deal with


----------



## joseph69

bfreedma said:


> In no particular order:
> 
> Lyric Hi-Fi
> Audio 46
> ...


You'd just need to jump over the Queensborough Bridge (AKA 59th Street Bridge) from Manhattan into Long Island City Queens to get to Woo Audio.


----------



## mulder01

bfreedma said:


> It's gonna cost @matthewhypolite though - at least one beer and possibly two!


2 beers and $30,000 

@matthewhypolite If I come across rude or arrogant it's not intended.  I would honestly not want you to go and spend $$$$$ on a DAC, not _fully_ knowing whether or not you made the right choice.  I mean, it's entirely possible you come home thinking the yggy is just fine, or maybe that you'll sell your wa33 and run them straight out of a Dave.  There are just so many possibilities of what could be really good, that it would be nice to have the knowledge that you have the absolute optimal system for you, and for potentially a lot less money than you thought... or... potentially... a lot more... That is also a danger... If it ends up happening... Anyway, I'll stay out of it - I've derailed this thread enough.
At least we all know some good stores to check out in NYC now...


----------



## simorag (Mar 20, 2019)

erpguru said:


> Anyone with experience of a LCD-4 (presently own) vs an Alpha Phi TC? As someone else also stated, I am a recovering bass-head and have come to really appreciate the planar bass sound..how would one compare the Phi TC vs the LCD-4, is the Abyss darker in presentation overall? Has anyone experienced _sibilance_ with the Abyss, is the high end brighter or about the same as the LCD? I am going to do the rental through cableco once they are available as they currently only have the phi but not the tc and want to be sure to listen to the exact model as it appears that the sound signature can vary quite a bit with their revisions...



My experience with the LCD-4, based in a two-weeks home audition, compared to an Abyss Phi with CC pads (not the TC) is that LCD-4 and Abyss are _complimentary_ headphones. To my ears, they do different things best. The only thing in common is that they share a fantastic bass, where the LCD-4 has bore bloom and the Abyss has more visceral impact and twack. With the Abyss you can tweak the bass easily by fiddling with the pads, by the way, if you want a even more sub-woofer like bass response, at the expense of some articulation.

Midrange is where the LCD-4 does its magic, and I have not heard another headphone which gives you such an emotional connection with vocals. Abyss is still great, of course, but in comparison sounds a tad leaner, colder and more distant in my system. And, yes, the Abyss Phi exhibit some sibilance IME depending on the recording, whereas the LCD-4 are velvety smooth. The Superconductor HP cable improves on the Abyss midrange, by adding some sweetness and body to it, while costing as much as an used LCD-4 

Treble is much more airy and extended with the Abyss and this also helps soundstage and transparency, at the cost of some brightness. LCD-4 treble is rolled off in comparison, which is not a bad thing with some hot recordings. The problem with me is that treble presentation of the LCD-4 trades off transparency for smoothness too much, and the overall impression is of a slightly veiled soundscape.

Imaging is very good with both, but I would give the edge to the Abyss, as with the headstage, which is significantly wider on the Abyss, while keeping a good depth and - to a lesser extent - height resolution.
Abyss presentation is unique in that it resembles speakers more than any other headphone I have heard, while LCD-4 has a comparatively more headphone-ish, intimate and closed-in character.

Finally, PRaT (Pace Rhythm and Timing) was so much better with the Abyss, where transients attack and decay were faster and fast paced music and complex rhythmics passages were coming out far more exciting and readable.

I was tempted (and still am) to get an LCD-4 as a secondary HP for vocals and easy listening sessions (as opposed to critical listening), but then the TC came out and I have decided to invest on the upgrade of my Abyss instead.

I am eager to know from the few TC fresh owners where the TC improves over the Phi, especially when it comes to brightness / sibilance.


----------



## Zhanming057 (Mar 19, 2019)

bfreedma said:


> I believe all of those are available in New York City, though not at the same store.  I know travel takes time, but that might be achievable in a weekend.
> 
> I'll be in the city next month and can scout it out if you're interested.  My guess is with the budget you're looking at, the stores can get anything not normally available for a pre-arranged demo.



Any idea where I would be able to try the MSB discrete in NYC? I also don't know of any Nagra dealers with a demo system ready in NYC, but the Dave, TT2 and both WA33's should be very doable in a single weekend.



jlbrach said:


> park avenue audio is of the group listed the nicest and easiest to deal with



If anyone is there and has a speaker tap to XLR adapter, I would highly recommend trying out their Accuphase E470. With the Abyss Phi that amp is spectacular.


----------



## FLTWS (Mar 19, 2019)

simorag said:


> .....
> I am eager to know from the few TC fresh owners where the TC improves over the Phi, especially when it comes to brightness / sibilance.



Me too! In time I'm sure poster impressions and the usual suspects with their websites / web-zines will enter the fray.


----------



## bfreedma

Zhanming057 said:


> Any idea where I would be able to try the MSB discrete in NYC? I also don't know of any Nagra dealers with a demo system ready in NYC, but the Dave, TT2 and both WA33's should be very doable in a single weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone is there and has a speaker tap to XLR adapter, I would highly recommend trying out their Accuphase E470. With the Abyss Phi that amp is spectacular.



I don't see any MSB dealers listed in NYC but perhaps one of the stores has some connections.  Will find out when I visit but it's certainly possible that some of the DACS on the list won't be available.


----------



## Articnoise

matthewhypolite said:


> Agreed. With well known music. And sometimes even a short demo of gear isn't enough unless you have a very trained ear.



I really like Linn Klimax and Linn's DACs can be upgraded.


----------



## Zhanming057

bfreedma said:


> I don't see any MSB dealers listed in NYC but perhaps one of the stores has some connections.  Will find out when I visit but it's certainly possible that some of the DACS on the list won't be available.



If you do find one who has MSB equipment available for in-store demo, please let us know  MSB is the one brand that I'm curious about and haven't had much chance to experience. I've been thinking about replacing my Nagra Classic DAC with a Vivaldi stack, but I figure I need to try out an MSB discrete first.

@Articnoise Linn's DAC's are amazing! The only bad thing is the proprietary audio over ethernet input. I don't have a router at home and my music library is on my laptop, and I just don't want to deal with their setup process.


----------



## galacticsoap

All this talk of amps has me wondering about driving my TC's via the speaker taps of my Accuphase C2820/A70 pre-power combo. My Lazulli Reference cable has a balanced termination (along-side a XLR to single ended adapter). So I gather all I'd need is a balanced to banana plug adapter:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Balance...hash=item2837bc07bc:m:mA6EGZFDrySZv-X4Tr63CIA

Anyone see any issues with this approach? Obviously not too keen in damaging the TC's or my amplifiers!


----------



## Zhanming057

galacticsoap said:


> All this talk of amps has me wondering about driving my TC's via the speaker taps of my Accuphase C2820/A70 pre-power combo. My Lazulli Reference cable has a balanced termination (along-side a XLR to single ended adapter). So I gather all I'd need is a balanced to banana plug adapter:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Balance...hash=item2837bc07bc:m:mA6EGZFDrySZv-X4Tr63CIA
> 
> Anyone see any issues with this approach? Obviously not too keen in damaging the TC's or my amplifiers!



No issues, just make sure you hook up the headphones before turning the amp on. Usually this is fine but some power amps don't like powering out without a load.

Otherwise, should be fun


----------



## syn959

simorag said:


> My experience with the LCD-4, based in a two-weeks home audition, compared to an Abyss Phi with CC pads (not the TC) is that LCD-4 and Abyss are _complimentary_ headphones. To my ears, they do different things best. The only thing in common is that they share a fantastic bass, where the LCD-4 has bore bloom and the Abyss has more visceral impact and twack. With the Abyss you can tweak the bass easily by fiddling with the pads, by the way, if you want a even more sub-woofer like bass response, at the expense of some articulation.
> 
> Midrange is where the LCD-4 does its magic, and I have not heard another headphone which gives you such an emotional connection with vocals. Abyss is still great, of course, but in comparison sounds a tad leaner, colder and more distant in my system. And, yes, the Abyss Phi exhibit some sibilance IME depending on the recording, whereas the LCD-4 are velvety smooth. The Superconductor HP cable improves on the Abyss midrange, by adding some sweetness and body to it, while costing as much as an used LCD-4
> 
> ...



Amazing Chord and cable setup you have there simorag! I hope to have similar Chord setup one day. We have similar music tastes and close to age as well. Do you find you lose any of the Dave magic from the Formula S?

I have TC and LCD-4 in house, but haven’t compared them side by side yet from my Benchmark setup. I did find that the TC were slightly easier to drive than the LCD-4 out of my HPA4.

I don’t have any experience with Phi CC, but I did find that the TC presentation soundstage width and height, and speed very similar to Stax SR-009, but with better bass. I haven’t noticed any sibilance from the TC, but have to listen to more different types of music to know for sure.

So far I’m really loving the TC and seem to be the perfect headphones. I’m sure some of that might be due to new toy syndrome so have to give it more time to see if that changes.


----------



## ufospls2

simorag said:


> I am eager to know from the few TC fresh owners where the TC improves over the Phi, especially when it comes to brightness / sibilance.



I find this really interesting. I don't have any form of AB-1266, but when I owned the original phi with non CC pads, I definitely noticed sibilance at times. I wondered if it was my source gear, but perhaps not. 

Anyhow, what I am getting at is that with the Diana Phi I have currently, I notice no sibilance. What I'm wondering is if there was a tiny tweak done to get rid of the sibilance with the Diana Phi, and if that same tweak is present on the AB-1266 TC. 

Interesting at the very least. This is all speculation on my part of course, and we would need @Joe Skubinski to chime in. 

Perhaps the lack of sibilance is just the CC pads and source gear changes etc...I have no idea : )


----------



## bfreedma

Zhanming057 said:


> If you do find one who has MSB equipment available for in-store demo, please let us know  MSB is the one brand that I'm curious about and haven't had much chance to experience. I've been thinking about replacing my Nagra Classic DAC with a Vivaldi stack, but I figure I need to try out an MSB discrete first.
> 
> @Articnoise Linn's DAC's are amazing! The only bad thing is the proprietary audio over ethernet input. I don't have a router at home and my music library is on my laptop, and I just don't want to deal with their setup process.




Will do.  Looking at the MSB site, they do list a dealer in Boston but it looks like it may be their US business HQ.  Perhaps they can setup something for you since you profile shows you live in that area.


----------



## simorag

syn959 said:


> Amazing Chord and cable setup you have there simorag! I hope to have similar Chord setup one day. We have similar music tastes and close to age as well. Do you find you lose any of the Dave magic from the Formula S?



Thanks! I have reported about driving the Abyss Phi through DAVE direct vs. DAVE + Formula S in this post.

Long story short, you do lose some of the DAVE magic by adding the Formula S (transparency, 3D imaging), but with some music / tracks - especially with large dynamics swings, low recording levels, huge bass sections - the trade off is worth the additional oomph, soundstage size and visceral impact the Formula S puts on the table.

I still go back to DAVE alone sometimes (chamber music, small jazz ensembles, solo vocals) but most of the time I use the Formula S + Powerman. It is nice to have both options 

When used in high gain mode, and with the DAVE pre output at 0dB, I get plenty of headroom from the Formula S, which I rarely use beyond 40% of volume knob rotation.



ufospls2 said:


> I find this really interesting. I don't have any form of AB-1266, but when I owned the original phi with non CC pads, I definitely noticed sibilance at times. I wondered if it was my source gear, but perhaps not.



To my ears, the OG vs CC Pads have no effect on perceived sibilance on the Abyss AB-1266 Phi. 

To be fair, I do not find the Abyss Phi as a sibilant headphone _per se_, but being subjectively extremely sensitive to upper midrange / lower treble brightness, with less than perfect recordings I am sometimes bothered by it.

I should receive my TC pair in a few weeks, I am sure they will perfect an already exceptional headphone


----------



## FLTWS

simorag said:


> Thanks! I have reported about driving the Abyss Phi through DAVE direct vs. DAVE + Formula S in
> this post....
> I should receive my TC pair in a few weeks, I am sure they will perfect an already exceptional headphone



Will you be hanging on the the Phi until you can A/B with TC?
I'm going to rent one for week to 10 days from Cable Co. to A/B when it's available got my name in on the list.


----------



## simorag (Mar 20, 2019)

FLTWS said:


> Will you be hanging on the the Phi until you can A/B with TC?
> I'm going to rent one for week to 10 days from Cable Co. to A/B when it's available got my name in on the list.



Unfortunately I had to sell my Phi to fund the upgrade, and I am already suffering from withdrawal symptoms 

Your try-first approach is much wiser, but it was impractical from Italy 

I have sold the Abyss locally, and when I get the TC (not before 3 weeks I am afraid), and after some burn in, I will try to arrange a meeting with the buyer for some good wine and A/B(yss).


----------



## FLTWS

That would be nice, to revisit your old one after you get some adequate time with the new one. 

I am not sure how far down on the list I am but pretty sure I sent an e-mail to my guy within a few days of seeing the first mention of the TC. Still, it could be months.

I feel the Phi CC is already close to just right for me and the one I go to 80%+ of the time, especially as my meat and potatoes music are the  full blown symphony symphonies of Bruckner, Strauss (and his opera's), and Mahler, etc.. The high frequency handling is the one area I really focus on, and I think the majority of issues I come up against in that region are as much to do with the recording as anything to do with the rest of my chain. Other than finding the right combination of components and wires there's not much else can be done about that.


----------



## matthewhypolite

bfreedma said:


> Will do.  Looking at the MSB site, they do list a dealer in Boston but it looks like it may be their US business HQ.  Perhaps they can setup something for you since you profile shows you live in that area.



I see this Msb dealer in NYC? 
https://www.soundbysinger.com


----------



## bfreedma

matthewhypolite said:


> I see this Msb dealer in NYC?
> https://www.soundbysinger.com



Will be one of my stops.  Near Chelsea market, so I can eat while on my mission. What’s next, the Beats Brandstore?


----------



## simorag

@Joe Skubinski, us AB-1266 believers (some would say fanboys, except I am not a boy anymore ) would like to know more about the design intent behind the TC drivers.

Without disclosing sensitive design details / intellectual property, would you be so kind to entertain us with some juicy tech background behind this new - perhaps even unexpected by most of us -  driver you delivered?

And, mostly, what has been the musical performance area you addressed with the TC compared to the previous Phi generation?

Thank you in advance!


----------



## Zhanming057 (Mar 20, 2019)

bfreedma said:


> Will do.  Looking at the MSB site, they do list a dealer in Boston but it looks like it may be their US business HQ.  Perhaps they can setup something for you since you profile shows you live in that area.



Goodwin's High End does sell MSB but they don't have any MSB DAC's in store. I know another guy who is an MSB dealer in NH, but he also doesn't have anything on site.

That said, if anyone is traveling to the greater Boston area, Goodwin's is a great location for both 2 channel and headphones (if a bit New-England-esq gruff). I've been a customer for several years and have gotten some nice deals from them. They are still an Abyss dealer and they have an extremely impressive selection of world-class DAC's and power amps. I tried the Vivaldi and Bartok there and ended up buying their entire Nagra stack.


----------



## syn959 (Mar 20, 2019)

matthewhypolite said:


> I see this Msb dealer in NYC?
> https://www.soundbysinger.com



I know that place. Specializes in high end. I got my Vandersteen speakers from them about 20 yrs ago. 
Sales people willing to negotiate and many rooms to audition stuff when they were at old location. Haven't been to new location.


----------



## wasupdog

simorag said:


> @Joe Skubinski, us AB-1266 believers (some would say fanboys, except I am not a boy anymore ) would like to know more about the design intent behind the TC drivers.
> 
> Without disclosing sensitive design details / intellectual property, would you be so kind to entertain us with some juicy tech background behind this new - perhaps even unexpected by most of us -  driver you delivered?
> 
> ...



Any advice on whether the Powerman is worth the money for an Abyss setup?  I can't find any other reviews out there beside Audio Bacon and the Powerman costs as much as an amp or headphones!


----------



## Joe Skubinski

We're always striving to hear music as if you're standing on the microphone. The TC has greater clarity to the source and higher resolution throughout the audible range without forcing information, adding brightness, or changing the AB-1266's tonaility, very difficult to do. The new drivers combined with the latest frame sets, ceramic coatings, and leathers enhance all the capabilities of prior AB-1266 models. I believe Jude will mention some of the updates in the upcoming video prior to CanJam Singapore next weekend. 
 




simorag said:


> @Joe Skubinski, us AB-1266 believers (some would say fanboys, except I am not a boy anymore ) would like to know more about the design intent behind the TC drivers.
> 
> Without disclosing sensitive design details / intellectual property, would you be so kind to entertain us with some juicy tech background behind this new - perhaps even unexpected by most of us -  driver you delivered?
> 
> ...


----------



## matthewhypolite (Mar 20, 2019)

So, i just took my first listen of the TC after some burning in. Michael Jackson - Bad along with a couple violin based songs from Taylor Davis.

........O My. The micro detail....., the clarity, i am genuinely experiencing the "was that always there?" sensation.

My o my... @Joe Skubinski  ......all i can say right now is....yes!....all the yeses.

120hrs in, going to let them cook a bit more and give them a proper go this coming weekend.

P.S. I'll be doing all my listening and testing with my old spore 4 fusion cables as i want to keep everything else the same to compare against the Phi. Once i have a take on the differences, i'll introduce the SC and see what that does.


----------



## ufospls2

matthewhypolite said:


> So, i just took my first listen of the TC after some burning in. Michael Jackson - Bad along with a couple violin based songs from Taylor Davis.
> 
> ........O My. The micro detail....., the clarity, i am genuinely experiencing the "was that always there?" sensation.
> 
> ...



All the toys! Enjoy man!!!


----------



## Benny-x

FLTWS said:


> I did just that back on 3/3 check the showcase, and I used 1 tube and 1 SS amp.


Finding "showcase" was an exercise in frustration... I never even knew that was there before, I mean, as a tab. 

Thanks for putting all that together, I really appreciated the feedback.


----------



## simorag

wasupdog said:


> Any advice on whether the Powerman is worth the money for an Abyss setup?  I can't find any other reviews out there beside Audio Bacon and the Powerman costs as much as an amp or headphones!



My Powerman needed RMA this summer so I had the chance - while unwillingly - to compare the Formula S alone and the combo thoroughly.
I noticed a general loss of focus and palpability, and a flatter presentation without the Powerman. With the Powerman there is a smoother and more effortless presentation, clarity and transparency are improved.
The difference is easy to hear, but of course the Formula S is a very good amp on its own and only you can judge if the Powerman cost is justified.
If you can understand French, there are two nice YouTube reviews of the Formula S and of the Powerman from Pierre Paya.
Overall, my impressions align pretty well with those of Audiobacon and Pierre.



Joe Skubinski said:


> We're always striving to hear music as if you're standing on the microphone. The TC has greater clarity to the source and higher resolution throughout the audible range without forcing information, adding brightness, or changing the AB-1266's tonality, very difficult to do. The new drivers combined with the latest frame sets, ceramic coatings, and leathers enhance all the capabilities of prior AB-1266 models. I believe Jude will mention some of the updates in the upcoming video prior to CanJam Singapore next weekend.



Thanks Joe, I agree that matching clarity, detail and resolution with smooth, fatigue free sound and "musicality"/"naturalness" (whatever that means) is quite a challenge in hifi.
Look forward to Jude video to know more about the TC updates, then! 



matthewhypolite said:


> So, i just took my first listen of the TC after some burning in. Michael Jackson - Bad along with a couple violin based songs from Taylor Davis.
> 
> ........O My. The micro detail....., the clarity, i am genuinely experiencing the "was that always there?" sensation.
> 
> ...



Bad from MJ is a good track for bass transients and for digging into Quincy Jones arrangement tricks, with lots of details to be discovered.
Have you formed your first impression about the treble of the TC?
Enjoy!


----------



## matthewhypolite

When you say impressions about the treble, as it compares to the Phi? or in general?


----------



## simorag

matthewhypolite said:


> When you say impressions about the treble, as it compares to the Phi? or in general?



The former, thanks!


----------



## matthewhypolite (Mar 21, 2019)

I can offer some very limited impressions as i've not had much time with them.

But from the little i've listened to so far, (without A/B) the treble sounds very similar, but i'd say there's more of it. But that can be due to the very resolving nature of the TC. it just extracts more out of the music. So across the frequency spectrum, there just seems to be....more. The sound signature of the TC is very much Abyss House Sound. But a refinement all over thus far.

Going from the OG to the Phi, i felt like their were certain flaws the OG had that the Phi resolved. (I've went into this a few pages back)
Going from the Phi to TC feels like an evolution of what the Phi is. TC Brings you closer to the music, without loosing it's sense of space or body.

That's where i am thus far 

Also, i took a listen to the SC cable, and these are my initial notes:


SC :

SC cable lifts a veil off of the music. The Spore 4 in comparison sounds recessed, held back, veiled. SC Cable introduces speed, precision, authority and impact. The music just sounds so much clearer, but not harsh. It just gives you more of what's there. It almost makes the abyss sound like it's plugged into a different amp. I was not expecting to hear such an immediate and obvious difference with the SC, but I could hear it straight away.


----------



## 506638

FED UP WITH ABYSS.

First I bought an Abyss 1266 Phi
Last year, I upgraded it with CC pad (+$500 in Europe)
And after a few months AND Joe's assessment (who lied because you don't design new drivers of high level in one year) that the CC version was the final revision
I loose 60% of the price it costed me (against around 30% when opening a box for a non discontinued version) as the very old (lol) Abyss 1266 Phi is not upgradable WHICH IS A SHAME .

My humble opinion is that the CC version was to make money and win time to finish the design of the new driver. Well played Joe but if you keep fooling your customers, you'll end by loosing them and a lot of money.
I'm also one of those who buy headphones to listen to music. But I'm not wealthy : it took me months to save enough to buy my Abyss 1266 Phi (not TOTL as the TOTL is + $2900 in Europe for the high-end cable). So I'm worrying about resale value or depreciation as it is not the same reselling it $3500 or $2500. The cost of the TC in Europe is $6170. I'd rather have been able to deduct $3500 from this instead of $2500. 

So what will it be next year ?  Abyss 1266 Phi TC NC (New Chassis) ?

A TOTL which has a life time of less than a year is not a TOTL.


----------



## Pastwa

PIANISTE88 said:


> I'm also one of those who buy headphones to listen to music. But I'm not wealthy : it took me months to save enough to buy my Abyss 1266 Phi (not TOTL as the TOTL is + $2900 in Europe for the high-end cable). So I'm worrying about resale value or depreciation as it is not the same reselling it $3500 or $2500.



If you purchased the Abyss mainly to enjoy music, so why are so concern about selling them at a good price? 

If you, however, want headphones that will keep its value then buy a second-hand HD600 which is actually directed for not wealthy people.


----------



## Sound Trooper

I’m honestly not too bothered by the new Abyss TC. To me, it doesn’t mean that my Phi would suddenly sound bad overnight. On the contrary, I’ll continue to optimise my chain so that I can extract more musical enjoyment from it. I’m looking forward to hearing how the new Abyss TC has moved the game on!


----------



## GuyForkes

Pastwa said:


> If you purchased the Abyss mainly to enjoy music, so why are so concern about selling them at a good price?
> 
> If you, however, want headphones that will keep its value then buy a second-hand HD600 which is actually directed for not wealthy people.



I bought an apartment mainly so I had a place to stay but I wouldn't be very happy either if it lost 40% of its value in 6 months. I'm funny that way.

PIANISTE88 bought the Abyss 1266 Phi + CC pads presumably because he wanted the absolute best headphones in the market to get the most enjoyment out of music. 

If the new TC is supposed to take that enjoyment to a higher level, I can understand why he wants to sell his current set to buy the TC.



PIANISTE88 said:


> The cost of the TC in Europe is $6170. I'd rather have been able to deduct $3500 from this instead of $2500.



If you're gonna use quotes, quote the bits that are important because context matters. He was talking about value retention in the context of funding the TC. I don't think purchasing a 2nd hand HD600 would be helpful in this instance.


----------



## FLTWS

There are still some out there that prefer the Original 1266 to the Phi and the Original ear pads to the CC's and I expect the same takes will happen with Phi vs TC. The words 'New" and "Better" don't have the same definition. When I audition the TC it will be against my Phi CC and in my home for a week to 10 days (already confirmed with my dealer). The TC may well be more accurate but it may not make my extensive collection of less than SOTA recordings sound better, it may make them sound worse revealing more defects in the recordings (or my other equipment), or maybe the differences won't be significant enough to me to take the plunge, or maybe I'll have both in my collection. Until I've heard it and spent some time with it how could I possibly know if its something to consider buying?

I am a music listener not a hardware investor so I never consider resale value. Just the sound (and wearing comfort). And if I can't afford something I don't buy it and I don't feel cheated. Chord Blu / Dave? I'm sure it's a fine sounding combination but I can't justify the price to myself so it's off the table for me. And that's okay with me.Nobody owes me anything. I make my own decisions and no crying afterwards.


----------



## GuyForkes

FLTWS said:


> There are still some out there that prefer the Original 1266 to the Phi and the Original ear pads to the CC's and I expect the same takes will happen with Phi vs TC. The words 'New" and "Better" don't have the same definition. When I audition the TC it will be against my Phi CC and in my home for a week to 10 days (already confirmed with my dealer). The TC may well be more accurate but it may not make my extensive collection of less than SOTA recordings sound better, it may make them sound worse revealing more defects in the recordings (or my other equipment), or maybe the differences won't be significant enough to me to take the plunge, or maybe I'll have both in my collection. Until I've heard it and spent some time with it how could I possibly know if its something to consider buying?
> 
> I am a music listener not a hardware investor so I never consider resale value. Just the sound (and wearing comfort). And if I can't afford something I don't buy it and I don't feel cheated. Chord Blu / Dave? I'm sure it's a fine sounding combination but I can't justify the price to myself so it's off the table for me. And that's okay with me.Nobody owes me anything. I make my own decisions and no crying afterwards.



The question of whether upgrading to the TC is worthwhile is legitimate. I asked myself that same question. 

What was objectionable was twisting/cherry-picking words and from there, dispatching advice like "buy a 2nd hand HD600" which solves nothing. And then implying that not wealthy people should stick to the HD600 (and not buy TOTL headphones).

Anyway, this is OT so I won't go on. I personally think the TC is a great set of headphones.


----------



## Pastwa

I simply don't get all that moaning about buying new staff that losses its value, the same is with new cars, practically everything, if for want to make a financial investment buy a piece of land or property or, don't visit head-fi after the purchase for another 5years for peace of mind.

Personally, I would rather invest in a better source or amplifier to get out the best from the already good headphones.


----------



## FLTWS

GuyForkes said:


> ...
> 
> ... I personally think the TC is a great set of headphones.



I haven't heard them so I have no idea one way or the other, but I do look forward to pitting the Phi and TC against each other.


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## szymonsays

I think the issue all the Phi CC owners are having is that Abyss has released an upgraded driver in such a short time span, especially when there was mention on this very thread that there would be no further versions of the Phi CC. If you look at Audeze, the LCD-4 was released in 2015 and there hasn't been a futher upgrade yet (the 4Z doesn't count as it had no intention of replacing the LCD-4); with Focal, the Utopia was released in 2016 and nothing has been announced yet; with Sennheiser, the HD800S was released in 2015... you get the idea. This whole ordeal reminds me of what Hifiman has been doing. I do agree that its great that companies are continuously looking to upgrade their gear, but if you keep releasing newer items in such a short time span it can leave a bit of bitter aftertaste. We aren't talking about cars, computers, phones, etc where you expect to see a new model each year, these are Hi-Fi headphones and i certainly haven't seen many companies upgrading their flagship models on a yearly basis. 

I can understand how some of the posters may feel in this thread. I certainly wouldn't be too happy if Abyss releases a Diana Phi TC in the next few months especially when the Diana Phi was only announced in October 2018, and i just bought the Diana Phi a month ago.


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## Zhanming057 (Mar 23, 2019)

PIANISTE88 said:


> You've answered better than my Frenglish would have allowed me. As a matter of fact, I'm disabled and spend most of my life between medical cares and lying in my bed. For obvious reasons, I use an headphone. The Abyss 1266 Phi was kind of a dream (before my health problem, I've "destroyed" pianos for 35 years) and I'm sure it has been the case of many buyers.. Pastwa is lucky enough to have plenty of money, but I bet he hasn' spent years on a piano trying for hours to find the right sound for just a free bars. I don't understand the relation between his avatar (an iQube, perfect for an HD600) and the Abyss 1266.



If the original Phi was your dream, why does the TC matter in terms of your enjoyment at all? Do you need the latest Macbook or iPhone when even models from 3-4 years ago are perfectly usable? The fact that other companies are on slower release schedules has no bearing on what Abyss does, and since the CC is mostly a cosmetic upgrade, the Phi driver has been around for ~2 years before the TC release. Is that faster than many companies? Yes. Does it now mean that you can't enjoy the CC's? No.

I like the idea of taking resale value into consideration when buying equipment. But at some point you have to admit that you just rolled the dice wrong for once, and it's much, much more likely that you'll take a hit on resale value if you insist on the latest and greatest. As one example - if you bought a used OG 1266 instead of the Phi, you'd hardly be losing any money on the sale and still be able to enjoy one of the best headphones on the planet.


----------



## szymonsays

Zhanming057 said:


> If the original Phi was your dream, why does the TC matter in terms of your enjoyment at all? Do you need the latest Macbook or iPhone when even models from 3-4 years ago are perfectly usable? The fact that other companies are on slower release schedules has no bearing on what Abyss does, and since the CC is mostly a cosmetic upgrade, the Phi driver has been around for ~2.5 years before the TC release. Is that faster than many companies? Yes. Does it now mean that you can't enjoy the CC's? No.
> 
> I like the idea of taking resale value into consideration when buying equipment. But at some point you have to admit that you just rolled the dice wrong for once, and it's much, much more likely that you'll take a hit on resale value if you insist on the latest and greatest. As one example - if you bought a used OG 1266 instead of the Phi, you'd hardly be losing any money on the sale and still be able to enjoy one of the best headphones on the planet.



I don't mean to derail your comment but the 1266 Phi was announced on March 30, 2017 and made its debut in SoCal CanJam near the beginning of April 2017, so it hasn't even been two years yet!


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## Zhanming057

szymonsays said:


> I don't mean to derail your comment but the 1266 Phi was announced on March 30, 2017 and made its debut in SoCal CanJam near the beginning of April 2017, so it hasn't even been two years yet!



My bad - I could swear it was April 2016. Corrected.


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## matthewhypolite (Mar 23, 2019)

Zhanming057 said:


> If the original Phi was your dream, why does the TC matter in terms of your enjoyment at all? Do you need the latest Macbook or iPhone when even models from 3-4 years ago are perfectly usable? The fact that other companies are on slower release schedules has no bearing on what Abyss does, and since the CC is mostly a cosmetic upgrade, the Phi driver has been around for ~2.5 years before the TC release. Is that faster than many companies? Yes. Does it now mean that you can't enjoy the CC's? No.
> 
> I like the idea of taking resale value into consideration when buying equipment. But at some point you have to admit that you just rolled the dice wrong for once, and it's much, much more likely that you'll take a hit on resale value if you insist on the latest and greatest. As one example - if you bought a used OG 1266 instead of the Phi, you'd hardly be losing any money on the sale and still be able to enjoy one of the best headphones on the planet.



Was just about to say the same thing re:driver.

The phi cc was jsut a cosmetic upgrade. With pads available to anyone who wanted to buy them. Same driver. The phi was the first abyss driver upgrade, which was made available to everyone who wanted to upgrade to them. All in all the TC is the first real new non upgradable headphone since the OG.

As far as I'm aware there was no upgrade path offered by Audeze for any of their cans. And hifiman offered an upgrade to hekv2 only for a select few lucky individuals that were selected randomly from the thread (I being one)

So I think jps has done a good job balancing consumers best interest with providing the upgrades and releasing their latest technology.

The OG was released 2013 I believe  ?
So it's been 6 years since that abyss has offered something that you couldn't upgrade to.

I do understand that some folks who jsut got the Phi may feel slighted and as far as I understand Joe is dealing with these folks on a case by case basis . And if someone buys the lcd4 today, and the lcd5 launches tomorrow, I'm not sure Audeze will do the same. And for the folks who bought the lcd4 today, it wouldn't matter how long the cans were around if a new version drops tomorrow.

Think we need to cut jps some slack. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## szymonsays

matthewhypolite said:


> Was just about to say the same thing re:driver.
> 
> The phi cc was jsut a cosmetic upgrade. With pads available to anyone who wanted to buy them. Same driver. The phi was the first abyss driver upgrade, which was made available to everyone who wanted to upgrade to them. All in all the TC is the first real new non upgradable headphone since the OG.
> 
> ...



Looking at this thread, I do think Joe and Abyss appear to be a great and supportive company and it was really nice of them to offer the original 1266 owners a chance to upgrade to the Phi for quite some time. However, if Audeze were to launch the LCD-5 tomorrow, i'm fairly certain (based on my experiences with them - they have the best customer support service in the headphone industry) they would allow customers who purchased an LCD-4 within a day (or even a month) a chance to return them and upgrade to the LCD-5. If i were to buy a new LCD-4 today and the LCD-5 came out tomorrow, i wouldn't have been too disappointed as it has been over three years since the LCD-4 came out.


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## tholt (Mar 23, 2019)

szymonsays said:


> I think the issue all the Phi CC owners are having is that Abyss has released an upgraded driver in such a short time span, especially when there was mention on this very thread that there would be no further versions of the Phi CC. If you look at Audeze, the LCD-4 was released in 2015 and there hasn't been a futher upgrade yet (the 4Z doesn't count as it had no intention of replacing the LCD-4); with Focal, the Utopia was released in 2016 and nothing has been announced yet; with Sennheiser, the HD800S was released in 2015... you get the idea. This whole ordeal reminds me of what Hifiman has been doing. I do agree that its great that companies are continuously looking to upgrade their gear, but if you keep releasing newer items in such a short time span it can leave a bit of bitter aftertaste. We aren't talking about cars, computers, phones, etc where you expect to see a new model each year, these are Hi-Fi headphones and i certainly haven't seen many companies upgrading their flagship models on a yearly basis.
> 
> I can understand how some of the posters may feel in this thread. I certainly wouldn't be too happy if Abyss releases a Diana Phi TC in the next few months especially when the Diana Phi was only announced in October 2018, and i just bought the Diana Phi a month ago.



Was just speaking with a friend about this last night. My big issue is that there is no UPGRADE path anymore, like there was with the OG to the Phi. Even that was $1500 just to replace drivers (cough) but it was a lot better than having to sell off perfectly good, still relatively new very expensive TOTL cans at typically a big loss (> $1k), just to turn around and spend full price on a new set of cans. That's a gut punch. And then a new release comes along in a relatively short time and you have to agonize about doing it again... Seems like a lot of wasted money just to keep up. If Abyss continues to upgrade, and more power to them, it would be good to figure out an upgrade path instead of expecting their loyal fan base to keep throwing money down the drain and ponying up for a brand new set of headphones.

In general, I think an upgrade path is always appreciated by consumers. It's not a stranger to this hobby, many many companies offer that path.


----------



## szymonsays

tholt said:


> Was just speaking with a friend about this last night. My big issue is that there is no UPGRADE path anymore, like there was with the OG to the Phi. Even that was $1500 just to replace drivers (cough) but it was a lot better than having to sell off perfectly good, still relatively new very expensive TOTL cans at typically a big loss (> $1k), just to turn around and spend full price on a new set of cans. That's a gut punch. And then a new release comes along in a relatively short time and you have to agonize about doing it again... Seems like a lot of wasted money just to keep up. If Abyss continues to upgrade, and more power to them, it would be good to figure out an upgrade path instead of expecting their loyal fan base to keep throwing money down the drain and ponying up for a brand new set of headphones.
> 
> In general, I think an upgrade path is always appreciated by consumers. It's not a stranger to this hobby, many many companies offer that path.



I think it was already very nice of Abyss to allow that upgrade in the first place as very very few companies do this. I'm sure they had their reasons for not upgrading to the TC (? different driver and chassis dimensions perhaps). Technology will always improve, but my only issue would be if a company was upgrading their flagship headphone on a very frequent basis (e.g. yearly or even less than 2 years) as this is not commonly seen in this hobby.


----------



## matthewhypolite

szymonsays said:


> Looking at this thread, I do think Joe and Abyss appear to be a great and supportive company and it was really nice of them to offer the original 1266 owners a chance to upgrade to the Phi for quite some time. However, if Audeze were to launch the LCD-5 tomorrow, i'm fairly certain (based on my experiences with them - they have the best customer support service in the headphone industry) they would allow customers who purchased an LCD-4 within a day (or even a month) a chance to return them and upgrade to the LCD-5. If i were to buy a new LCD-4 today and the LCD-5 came out tomorrow, i wouldn't have been too disappointed as it has been over three years since the LCD-4 came out.


Well yes, once it's within their established return window. They would take the cans back and u just purchase another. But that's not what I meant lol. Talking about upgrade path outside of standard returns.


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## szymonsays

matthewhypolite said:


> Well yes, once it's within their established return window. They would take the cans back and u just purchase another. But that's not what I meant lol. Talking about upgrade path outside of standard returns.



I understand what you meant and i was under the impression that your time window was a bit of an exageration lol However, i don't think new LCD-4 buyers would be as slighted to hear a new version had come out (even outside the return window) as it has been over three years since the LCD-4 came out. I remember reading the Hifiman thread when a newer version of the HE-1000 came out in such a short time span, and all the angry responses which i think were justified as this hobby doesn't usually see flagship headphones replaced that quickly with a newer version.


----------



## franz12

tholt said:


> Was just speaking with a friend about this last night. My big issue is that there is no UPGRADE path anymore, like there was with the OG to the Phi. Even that was $1500 just to replace drivers (cough) but it was a lot better than having to sell off perfectly good, still relatively new very expensive TOTL cans at typically a big loss (> $1k), just to turn around and spend full price on a new set of cans. That's a gut punch. And then a new release comes along in a relatively short time and you have to agonize about doing it again... Seems like a lot of wasted money just to keep up. If Abyss continues to upgrade, and more power to them, it would be good to figure out an upgrade path instead of expecting their loyal fan base to keep throwing money down the drain and ponying up for a brand new set of headphones.
> 
> In general, I think an upgrade path is always appreciated by consumers. It's not a stranger to this hobby, many many companies offer that path.



Hifiman can provide an upgrade path because it is based on cheap Chinese labor.
For Abyss, I think it is almost impossible because its manufacturing is based on US labor, which costs whole lot more. Also, Abyss is a small company. Small companies need a healthy profit margin to sustain their business.


----------



## 506638

Zhanming057 said:


> If the original Phi was your dream, why does the TC matter in terms of your enjoyment at all? Do you need the latest Macbook or iPhone when even models from 3-4 years ago are perfectly usable? The fact that other companies are on slower release schedules has no bearing on what Abyss does, and since the CC is mostly a cosmetic upgrade, the Phi driver has been around for ~2 years before the TC release. Is that faster than many companies? Yes. Does it now mean that you can't enjoy the CC's? No.
> 
> I like the idea of taking resale value into consideration when buying equipment. But at some point you have to admit that you just rolled the dice wrong for once, and it's much, much more likely that you'll take a hit on resale value if you insist on the latest and greatest. As one example - if you bought a used OG 1266 instead of the Phi, you'd hardly be losing any money on the sale and still be able to enjoy one of the best headphones on the planet.



It was my dream because it was the best. Music has always been a major part of my life and I'd like to have the best headphone. I have no Mackbook, just a low end ACER, and my smartphone is an LG5 because when my LG3 died a few months ago, I thought it had all I needed. Yes, last that 2 years in much faster than other companies. And it is based upon lies. Did that Joe say that the CC was mostly a cosmetic upgrade ($400, I wouldn't have bought the new pads, specially that it hard no to say that the ABYSS is one of the ugliest speaker on the world : reminds me of scenes of Brazil) : NO. Did he say it was the latest evolution : YES.

I'm thinking of those who have bought a brand new CC. And yes, I will no longer use the CC (and as a matter of fact, because of surgery, have never used it : it is when I decided to use it that I discovered there was the TI. I've offered it for free on French forums.
This is the only positive thing I can do from what I consider a scam


----------



## tholt

franz12 said:


> Hifiman can provide an upgrade path because it is based on cheap Chinese labor.
> For Abyss, I think it is almost impossible because its manufacturing is based on US labor, which costs whole lot more. Also, Abyss is a small company. Small companies need a healthy profit margin to sustain their business.



Naw. It doesn't take much to be able to offer an upgrade path. Factor it in when you're designing the shiny new thing, unless it's a radical design departure that physically won't work with the existing product (and I don't believe that to be the case with the CC and TC upgrades, correct me if I'm wrong). That's not a small vs big company thing, that's a conscious strategy decision. And let's face it, Abyss are some of the spendiest cans around, it's not like they're not making money to fund their 'small' operation. I can empathize with those who feel slighted that they have to pay full retail for an upgrade. All I'm saying.


----------



## 506638

szymonsays said:


> I understand what you meant and i was under the impression that your time window was a bit of an exageration lol However, i don't think new LCD-4 buyers would be as slighted to hear a new version had come out (even outside the return window) as it has been over three years since the LCD-4 came out. I remember reading the Hifiman thread when a newer version of the HE-1000 came out in such a short time span, and all the angry responses which i think were justified as this hobby doesn't usually see flagship headphones replaced that quickly with a newer version.



Regarding the HE-1000, it is kind of a special matter. There were beta testers here and many reviews were below average. So they had to improve them. But the HE-560 lasted for a long time, the HD800 also, the Grado also not mentioning the STAX.


----------



## 506638

tholt said:


> Naw. It doesn't take much to be able to offer an upgrade path. Factor it in when you're designing the shiny new thing, unless it's a radical design departure that physically won't work with the existing product (and I don't believe that to be the case with the CC and TC upgrades, correct me if I'm wrong). That's not a small vs big company thing, that's a conscious strategy decision. And let's face it, Abyss are some of the spendiest cans around, it's not like they're not making money to fund their 'small' operation. I can empathize with those who feel slighted that they have to pay full retail for an upgrade. All I'm saying.


And the 1266 could be upgraded to 1266 Phi. Some US companies such as PS Audio offer (only to US people  ) trade in to allow people to buy one of their unit or upgrade it.


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## franz12 (Mar 23, 2019)

tholt said:


> Naw. It doesn't take much to be able to offer an upgrade path. Factor it in when you're designing the shiny new thing, unless it's a radical design departure that physically won't work with the existing product (and I don't believe that to be the case with the CC and TC upgrades, correct me if I'm wrong). That's not a small vs big company thing, that's a conscious strategy decision. And let's face it, Abyss are some of the spendiest cans around, it's not like they're not making money to fund their 'small' operation. I can empathize with those who feel slighted that they have to pay full retail for an upgrade. All I'm saying.


 
You need to factor in labor costs. As far as their manufacturing is based on the U.S, labor costs are a sizeable chunk of costs of doing business. I paid 18k USD last year for my health insurance premium alone. I don't know how much Abyss pays for its employees, but that tells a lot. 
And those costs limit the scope of their strategic decisions. Also, that is the reason why many companies move their factories abroad. If you support U.S. workers, that is the part you need to accept. Otherwise, you don't. It's up to you.


----------



## bfreedma

franz12 said:


> You need to factor in labor costs. As far as their manufacturing is based on the U.S, labor costs are a sizeable chunk of costs of doing business. I paid 18k USD last year for my health insurance premium alone. I don't know how much Abyss pays for its employees, but that tells a lot.
> And those costs limit the scope of their strategic decisions. Also, that is the reason why many companies move their factories abroad. If you support U.S. workers, that is the part you need to accept. Otherwise, you don't. It's up to you.




I’m not sure why you’re bringing manufacturing and labor costs into the equation.  The difference in labor cost could be built into the price of the upgrade.


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## tholt (Mar 23, 2019)

franz12 said:


> You need to factor in labor costs. As far as their manufacturing is based on the U.S, labor costs are a sizeable chunk of costs of doing business. I paid 18k USD last year for my health insurance premium alone. I don't know how much Abyss pays for its employees, but that tells a lot.
> And those costs limit the scope of their strategic decisions. Also, that is the reason why many companies move their factories abroad. If you support U.S. workers, that is the part you need to accept. Otherwise, you don't. It's up to you.



My argument has NOTHING to do with supporting US workers and home-grown products so please don't skew the discussion. I get that making things in the states and taxes etc. make running companies and manufacturing here more expensive than elsewhere. I don't know how many employees JPS has, but by your own comment, they are 'small' and I would probably agree. I'm sure they are factoring operating costs in direct relation to the prices they charge for their products.

So your argument is, Abyss can't afford to pay their employees if they offer an upgrade path?


----------



## franz12

tholt said:


> My argument has NOTHING to do with supporting US workers and home-grown products so please don't skew the discussion. I get that making things in the states and taxes etc. make running companies and manufacturing here more expensive than elsewhere. I don't know how many employees JPS has, but by your own comment, they are 'small' and I would probably agree. I'm sure they are factoring operating costs in direct relation to the prices they charge for their products.
> 
> So your argument is, Abyss can't afford to pay their employees if they offer an upgrade path?



I guess that it is not profitable from the previous comment from Abyss in this thread.
To be clear, I don't want to defend any companies for their pricing, because I am also a headfier who needs to run rigs with a limited budget.
I just wanted to point out that this is not uncommon, especially for a U.S. based company.

Say, Zach just announced Auteur/Vertie with different wood. Also, between the Auteur and the Vertie, it was about 18 months. 
I have yet to see any customers who demand upgrade from one to another or changing the type of wood.
So I think Zach is a clever business man, but Joe is not.


----------



## franz12

bfreedma said:


> I’m not sure why you’re bringing manufacturing and labor costs into the equation.  The difference in labor cost could be built into the price of the upgrade.



Let's say a used price is $3000 and an upgrade price is $2500. Are you going to pay for upgrade? It will even more upset customers.


----------



## bfreedma

franz12 said:


> Let's say a used price is $3000 and an upgrade price is $2500. Are you going to pay for upgrade? It will even more upset customers.




That’s an entirely different question. 

I don’t think customers would be more upset with a $2500 (or whatever the cost) upgrade option vs. the new price of the current model compared with having no upgrade path vs. the price of the new model.

And not everyone likely wants to go through the time/risk/hassle of selling the old model to fund the new.

JPS can do business as it chooses.  I just don’t agree with your view of the economics involved.


----------



## franz12

bfreedma said:


> That’s an entirely different question.
> 
> I don’t think customers would be more upset with a $2500 (or whatever the cost) upgrade option vs. the new price of the current model compared with having no upgrade path vs. the price of the new model.
> 
> ...



I don't think that is an entirely different question, and I don't agree with your view. The reason to offer an upgrade path is to make their customers happy. If they are not able to do so (or make only few customers feel happy), it would be silly to offer it at the expense of a greater cost of doing business.

But I will stop this meaningless discussion to me as I am not an Abyss associate.


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## Savage4

I think what caused the plummeting of the resale value are those people who didn’t pay MSRP for their abyss products. I saw people sell their 1266 phi for $3200-$3800 and I’m pretty sure they did not pay $4995 at the time of purchase unless they don’t care about their money. In fact I think the whole hifi market is highly unregulated and as a result one should never buy brand new products. If you can acquire a Dave in great condition by paying ¥42000 why pay $8000? I bought a brand new abyss 1266 phi cc because I really liked it and Wall Street showed retails mercy 2016-2018. I would never spend my salary on any hifi products as long as there are people out there with connections pay only 50% of MSRPs.


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## jlbrach

I just bought my dad a new apple desktop computer for his birthday....shortly thereafter i find out that they are introducing a new model...fortunately my dad doesnt know nor would he care but i do know how frustrating the incredible speed of technology improvements can be to buyers


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## headblid (Mar 23, 2019)

I haven’t quite grown the pockets to buy a 1266 yet but have to say that the expectations of some people here are beyond ridiculous.
Putting pricing aside completely (whether it’s 100$ vs 1500$ vs 3000$ to upgrade), Abyss is free to do whatever they want with their products. It’s crazy expectations to sit there and believe that they just owe people upgrade paths.
I really struggle with the understanding that spending a pile of cash now must guarantee 100% upgrade path especially when Abyss has never, to my knowledge, mentioned “upgradable” when they released a product and before the next iteration is out.

Again, pricing aside, expectations are ridiculous. If the business practices don’t align with your values, just don’t buy...

Now, while I can’t afford one yet and frankly I probably wouldn’t even buy if I could afford because of  other priorities, I still love to read impressions here, so hoping for some good impressions and less butt hurt statements ... and congrats to whoever is able to afford these cans, OG or CC or TC!


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## jlbrach

Savage4 said:


> I think what caused the plummeting of the resale value are those people who didn’t pay MSRP for their abyss products. I saw people sell their 1266 phi for $3200-$3800 and I’m pretty sure they did not pay $4995 at the time of purchase unless they don’t care about their money. In fact I think the whole hifi market is highly unregulated and as a result one should never buy brand new products. If you can acquire a Dave in great condition by paying ¥42000 why pay $8000? I bought a brand new abyss 1266 phi cc because I really liked it and Wall Street showed retails mercy 2016-2018. I would never spend my salary on any hifi products as long as there are people out there with connections pay only 50% of MSRPs.



no matter what one paid for the Phi retail the used market price is the used market price and one who wants to upgrade has to transact at the going rate....


----------



## Savage4

jlbrach said:


> no matter what one paid for the Phi retail the used market price is the used market price and one who wants to upgrade has to transact at the going rate....


Nope it’s pretty easy to manipulate used product prices and I won’t discuss it here. Nearly all sellers here reduce their asking price to sell faster and this is completely wrong. One should increase their asking price instead. Selling things faster gives you no benefit if you don’t invest that money. I don’t think anyone here selling hifi gears is really in urgent need of cash unless he or she doesn’t manage his or her asset at all. Rule number one of being on the sell side, don’t be desperate.


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## Zhanming057 (Mar 23, 2019)

Savage4 said:


> I think what caused the plummeting of the resale value are those people who didn’t pay MSRP for their abyss products. I saw people sell their 1266 phi for $3200-$3800 and I’m pretty sure they did not pay $4995 at the time of purchase unless they don’t care about their money. In fact I think the whole hifi market is highly unregulated and as a result one should never buy brand new products. If you can acquire a Dave in great condition by paying ¥42000 why pay $8000? I bought a brand new abyss 1266 phi cc because I really liked it and Wall Street showed retails mercy 2016-2018. I would never spend my salary on any hifi products as long as there are people out there with connections pay only 50% of MSRPs.



I speak as someone who's been around the circuit for a while and who can, in fact, get below MSRP prices from many brands. Joe's price control is absolutely rigid and dealers who cheat are swiftly blacklisted. AFAIK, there are basically only three ways of getting Abyss products below MSRP, aside from buying used:

1. You can go to Canjam and RMAF and offer to buy the showroom unit from Joe directly. I've done this and saved a good amount. But you have to be quick and have cash ready and actually go to those events. But snagging a good deal on a TC might mean that you're saving more than the plane tickets and hotel.
2. You can find a dealer that you know really well and offer to buy their demo unit. I've also done this for older gen models (e.g. the Phi when the Phi CC came out) and while not every dealer will want to do this, most of them will especially if you're a repeat customer. It's still "used" but you get a warranty restart.
3. You can find a less scrupulous dealer from overseas. This isn't too hard (and I suspect what lots of people do with the Chord/64 Audio situation) but you're responsible for warranties and if something breaks it's a mess. I know for a fact that this is fairly uncommon with JPS, mostly because the big market for these is in the US and getting big cans imported is sometimes a PITA.

That's it. JPS has the best price control in the industry I've seen, period. You can bet that 8 or 9 out of every 10 guys that sell their Abyss headphones here did in fact pay for the MSRP. If you don't want to, you either go used or have to be really, really patient. People pay higher used prices for JPS because they're _actually_ good. That's it. I mean, if you want a TOTL planar with great build quality (ruling out the Susvara), no faulty driver shenanigans (ruling out the LCD4, which in itself isn't totally competitive with the TC), JPS is pretty much the only viable option. If they command a premium in the used market - and I would argue that they certainly do, when their competitors can quite readily be found at 50%-60% off MSRP, that's because they are in fact premium cans and the best sound that planars have to offer in the market place.


----------



## tholt

headblid said:


> I haven’t quite grown the pockets to buy a 1266 yet but have to say that the expectations of some people here are beyond ridiculous.
> Putting pricing aside completely (whether it’s 100$ vs 1500$ vs 3000$ to upgrade), Abyss is free to do whatever they want with their products. It’s crazy expectations to sit there and believe that they just owe people upgrade paths.
> I really struggle with the understanding that spending a pile of cash now must guarantee 100% upgrade path especially when Abyss has never, to my knowledge, mentioned “upgradable” when they released a product and before the next iteration is out.
> 
> ...



I'll respond to this since I may be one of the butt hurt ridiculous undeserving and overexpecting people you must be referring to.

Personally, I never said Abyss owed me anything, nor expected them to do anything for me, or guarantee me anything. Has anyone else? I don't know, since I responded specifically to one person's post. My argument, speaking for me but empathetic to every Abyss customer who has bought a new pair of headphones and then in a relatively short period of time get the news that there is a new headphone out, is that it's a bummer that there is not an upgrade path there. Of course Abyss is free to do anything it wants. And we're free to choose to buy or not. If that's your rebuttal then round of applause, Mr Obvious.

To your comment about 'pricing aside' -- how is that even relevant since that _is_ the point. You're suggesting that costs don't matter, it's the principle? Doubt people would be moaning over dropping $100, but I get it when it's $5k. My point is I feel for those who feel a little side swiped recently, and that it's not at all ridiculous to say that an upgrade path would be nice and appreciated, given the costs involved. I know a lot of people took advantage of the upgrade available from OG to Phi, I'm sure they appreciated it as well.


----------



## headblid

@tholt, at the risk of sounding like I’m insisting on semantics, I only commented on expectations and statements. I would absolutely not call you or anyone else on a forum ridiculous, undeserving or any other types of name calling for that matter. I also happen to agree with you that the upgrade path is nice to have but I don’t believe it should be an expectation.
For the sake of putting this to bed and continuing with impressions, I’ll say that while I don’t agree some of your opinions, I still respect them and it does show Abyss that people are passionate about the product. Ultimately that’s a win for the hobby and the product.

Re: upgrade path, for those that upgraded from an hd800\S or still have one with their Abyss, does it completely make the Senns redundant?


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## tholt (Mar 24, 2019)

headblid said:


> For the sake of putting this to bed and continuing with impressions, I’ll say that while I don’t agree some of your opinions, I still respect them and it does show Abyss that people are passionate about the product. Ultimately that’s a win for the hobby and the product.



Yeah I'm done. I think the point is out there enough. I'm not even _that_ passionate about Abyss, I was just debating the feasibility of an upgrade path option and sympathizing with others. Abyss no doubt know the mindset of some of their customers and have their reasons and plans. Is what it is. I for one missed out on the Phi upgrade from the OG, so my decision is to stick with what I have, which is still a fantastic headphone. My problem was finding a suitable amp for them. Not sure I'm there yet. Maybe someday I'll pick up a Phi or better on the used on the used market.


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## FLTWS (Mar 24, 2019)

Maybe Joe should have changed the name to Abyss 1277 TC.

"Total Consciousness" sounds a little tongue in cheek to me. "Teflon Coating"?

Never figured out what "CC" could possibly stand for. "Comfortable Cushion"?


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## Tekunda (Mar 24, 2019)

I would say that profit margins in headphones are substantial, if it is possible to build below's headphone for $250. (actually the manufacturer's price is probably only $125).
Just look at the stylish headband.
Now if a hp company charges thousands of dollars, the buyer must be aware of what he is getting himself into.
I am myself considering to buy the Abyss TC, well aware about this situation, but do I have another option, aside from buying used, if I feel that for me, this will be my endgame headphone?
I can't see how I will be able to avoid paying those prices, as I have no connection to the manufacturer.
It is a very tough decision and yes, it angers me to have to pay these inflated prices, but as long as no other manufacturer comes along, offering equal quality for far less, I will have to pay whatever the manufacturer asks, or stay away from from purchasing this particular headphone.
C'est la vie.


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## matthewhypolite

FLTWS said:


> Maybe Joe should have changed the name to Abyss 1277 TC.
> 
> "Total Consciousness" sounds a little tongue in cheek to me. "Teflon Coating"?
> 
> Never figured out what "CC" could possibly stand for. "Comfortable Cushion"?


Ceramic coating mate,,  lol


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## Maxx134

deuter said:


> So please keep this discussion going and hopefully we can get a list of top amps with Abyss 1266.


I liked the Abyss mostly with *this* amp..


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## 506638

franz12 said:


> You need to factor in labor costs. As far as their manufacturing is based on the U.S, labor costs are a sizeable chunk of costs of doing business. I paid 18k USD last year for my health insurance premium alone. I don't know how much Abyss pays for its employees, but that tells a lot.
> And those costs limit the scope of their strategic decisions. Also, that is the reason why many companies move their factories abroad. If you support U.S. workers, that is the part you need to accept. Otherwise, you don't. It's up to you.



In France, the minimum net income for workers is $1362 per month (before charges on salary, it is $1 725), including health cares (well, now part of them except for major diseases where it's 100%). Did that limit the scope of FOCAL ?


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## 506638

BTW, I'd like to test those Abyss 1266 Phi CC but my head isn't big enough. I went to YT but all I found was an "how to" when once has a too big head. Could anyone help me ? Please not that I can wear tens of other headphones I've used or tried during my life. Is there a way to make is a little less uncomfortable than an AKG K340 ?

Thanx for your kind help.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

@PIANISTE88 sent a PM asking for the serial number of your AB-1266 Phi CC. From your posts I cant tell exactly what you have.


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## headblid (Mar 24, 2019)

Actually if you take into account the fact that there is no upgrade path to the TC, it would technically mean that the CC is indeed the last evolution.
I believe it was mentioned a few times that it is a completely new product, the only thing I could see some people having a little challenge with is the fact that the product name was not completely changed.
That is also a business decision, It’s very similar to how BMW does things for instance. The 3 series has been around for a long time with all sort of model number changes but a car enthusiast would certainly not got mixing up different 3 series generations, engines, transmissions etc...

30 years from now, if Abyss is still making headphones and calling them 1266 PHI C F90 (pun intended for bmw fans), it would add to the lineage of the product and help make it a proper luxury item with a proper history standing behind it .  Buyers then would love to have a product with such history.
Abyss could have had many more reasons to keep the 1266 moniker, but one should really not hit them so hard because of a desagreeement with the product naming.

In my opinion, Abyss added just enriched the history of the 1266 by keeping the name. If you keep your cans long enough, it’ll start to make sense...

Again, I don’t have a 1266 and not planning to buy one just yet  because I find the cost a little high, just a bystander that likes to read impressions of various cans and I can’t wait for the next ones in this thread.

Cheers,


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## Joe Skubinski (Mar 24, 2019)

BTW guys, I never had any intention to mislead anyone, honestly figured on the CC being last of the 1266 model line with any further improvements rolled into a future 'not 1266' model.

Our work on shoehorning a 1266 Phi driver into Diana Phi opened up possibilities to improve the drivers within the larger AB-1266 frame. Last year we purchased two new Brother high speed CNC's and Eric spent most of the year mastering their abilities, and now with more intricate high precision machined components for the 1266 drivers, considerably more expensive to manufacture but, the results speak for themselves.

In the end we had to choose between stepping up the performance of the 1266 (again) potentially allowing the CC to come along for the ride, or start a new model. In hindsight we should have raised the price, of course that possibility is always on the table.


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## rumina (Mar 24, 2019)

i own both the big phi and the diana phi, both headphones that i like a lot. the last weeks with the diana phi i often had the impresssion that even if the headphone comes with a smaler footprint (also sound whise a tad smaler) it's more balanced overall then the big abyss phi. so that's was nice to read that the diana phi is not only a shrunken ab-1266 phi but allready have some dna from the tc in it. so for people that either don't like the size of the big abyss or don't find a good fit the diana phi should be heard.

price whise both headphones perfom excellent, but i have to admit that eu prices are high, lucky me in switzerland the prices are quite similar to the us, high but ok and finish is excellent (even the leather smells perfect).

the last posts in this thread makes me a bit sad (from both sides). i'm on the side, decide, buy and be happy with it. when the next day a new model comes out, that's life and abyss has a gentle way to deal with this topic. also the service from abyss is top. but i have the feeling that the company acts in this public form some few times like dr jekyll and mr hyde. the last phrase sounds like "and now be gentle or we rise the prise" imo not a whise statement...a good engineer should be proud to deliver better perfromace for the same price. but maybe i'm only a older man with a baroque understanding of this world


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## mulder01

PIANISTE88 said:


> BTW, I'd like to test those Abyss 1266 Phi CC but my head isn't big enough. I went to YT but all I found was an "how to" when once has a too big head. Could anyone help me ? Please not that I can wear tens of other headphones I've used or tried during my life. Is there a way to make is a little less uncomfortable than an AKG K340 ?
> 
> Thanx for your kind help.


Do the same thing as the "big head" adjustment, but bend the headband inward instead of outward?


----------



## Tekunda

rumina said:


> i own both the big phi and the diana phi, both headphones that i like a lot. the last weeks with the diana phi i often had the impresssion that even if the headphone comes with a smaler footprint (also sound whise a tad smaler) it's more balanced overall then the big abyss phi. so that's was nice to read that the diana phi is not only a shrunken ab-1266 phi but allready have some dna from the tc in it. so for people that either don't like the size of the big abyss or don't find a good fit the diana phi should be heard.
> 
> price whise both headphones perfom excellent, but i have to admit that eu prices are high, lucky me in switzerland the prices are quite similar to the us, high but ok and finish is excellent (even the leather smells perfect).
> 
> the last posts in this thread makes me a bit sad (from both sides). i'm on the side, decide, buy and be happy with it. when the next day a new model comes out, that's life and abyss has a gentle way to deal with this topic. also the service from abyss is top. but i have the feeling that the company acts in this public form some few times like dr jekyll and mr hyde. the last phrase sounds like "and now be gentle or we rise the prise" imo not a whise statement...a good engineer should be proud to deliver better perfromace for the same price. but maybe i'm only a older man with a baroque understanding of this world


How much is the big phi in Switzerland?


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## rumina

@Tekunda pm sent


----------



## 506638

Tekunda said:


> How much is the big phi in Switzerland?



VAT is switzerland is 8%, 20% in France so I guess it is around $5800 in Swiss but that's just and estimate better to get the info from somebody living in S.


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## 506638

rumina said:


> @Tekunda pm sent



Interested in PM too


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## 506638 (Mar 24, 2019)

Joe Skubinski said:


> @PIANISTE88 sent a PM asking for the serial number of your AB-1266 Phi CC. From your posts I cant tell exactly what you have.



An AB-1266 PHI LITE with CC pads.

PM answered


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## 506638

mulder01 said:


> Do the same thing as the "big head" adjustment, but bend the headband inward instead of outward?



Thanx a lot but I bent it inward and instantly it retakes it's original form. And I'm afraid to push to hard and bend it once and for all.

When you push it outward, it the try to try to retake your original force but the pads on your hear prevent it to do it completely and it is tight enough.

On the inward way, the is nothing to prevent it to regaining its normal shape. 

May be some pieces that would be placed by those who need them (small headed) between the earpiece and the pad would help.


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## 506638

rumina said:


> i own both the big phi and the diana phi, both headphones that i like a lot. the last weeks with the diana phi i often had the impresssion that even if the headphone comes with a smaler footprint (also sound whise a tad smaler) it's more balanced overall then the big abyss phi. so that's was nice to read that the diana phi is not only a shrunken ab-1266 phi but allready have some dna from the tc in it. so for people that either don't like the size of the big abyss or don't find a good fit the diana phi should be heard.


Would be interesting to know if there will be a diana TC.

I've asked @Joe Skubinski if there was a solution to my "little head" issue. Wait and see


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## 506638

Tekunda said:


> How much is the big phi in Switzerland?



Mine is free in France. I can't even hold it on my head. I must be the first one to face this problem otherwise Abyss would have found and issue. May be rubber bands.


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## jlbrach

other than the few people who had bought the Phi and were surprised by a new model perhaps a few days or weeks thereafter i am not sure what the rest of people are complaining about?...all technology continues to improve and nobody would want a manufacturer to have a better product and not release it. I do feel for those who buy a product and find a new one released concurrently and do think those few should be dealt with fairly and i am confident they will be...the rest really have nothing to moan about ....HIfiman put out the HE-1000 and followed it with the v2 and then the SE version...I could list others exactly the same, the discussion is silly


----------



## 506638

jlbrach said:


> other than the few people who had bought the Phi and were surprised by a new model perhaps a few days or weeks thereafter i am not sure what the rest of people are complaining about?...all technology continues to improve and nobody would want a manufacturer to have a better product and not release it. I do feel for those who buy a product and find a new one released concurrently and do think those few should be dealt with fairly and i am confident they will be...the rest really have nothing to moan about ....HIfiman put out the HE-1000 and followed it with the v2 and then the SE version...I could list others exactly the same, the discussion is silly



As I've always mentioned, the HE-1000 wasn't widely acclaimed. Even the beta-testers here were mixed. The HE-1000SE was not an improvement to the HE-1000 V2 but had a very different signature. Both of them are still on the market. The HE-1000SE in more a competitor to the Focal Utopia. 

It stands out from the sound aesthetic rather "euphonic" and "enveloping" of the two preceding HE1000.
It's more 'technical' actually.

The HE1000 SE and the HE1000 V2 are not designed to the same listeners but to cover all tastes.. 

You can list others exactly the same, please do it because this is always the HE-1000 case that is used.

"and do think those few should be dealt with fairly and i am confident they will be..." based on what ?


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## jlbrach (Mar 24, 2019)

completely disagree the HE-1000 was very well reviewed and i owned it and loved it and i upgraded to the v2 which was even better....i have not heard the SE....the fact remains no matter what you think of the 1000 and the upgrades that they were indeed upgrades....


----------



## mt-hifidelity

franz12 said:


> Hifiman can provide an upgrade path because it is based on cheap Chinese labor.
> For Abyss, I think it is almost impossible because its manufacturing is based on US labor, which costs whole lot more. Also, Abyss is a small company. Small companies need a healthy profit margin to sustain their business.



In conversations with the Abyss team they mentioned that putting together a new TC headphone is much less cumbersome and time-consuming than upgrading older models  Therefore they couldn't make the pricing work for a TC upgrade path.   They also talked about how there can now be upgraded 'franken-abysses' out there, with many permutations that create support and resale challenges since the chassis for each could be slightly different, pads, etc etc.   The warranty situation gets tricky too.

I don't blame them for not automatically creating an upgrade path.  Most high-end audio products don't offer this which is why the ones that do are notable.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

PIANISTE88 said:


> Can't find on you post the explanation why an upgrade is not possible.
> 
> "considerably more expensive to manufacture"
> Anyway, the manufacturing cost of the 1266 TC is below $1K, that leaves a tremendous profit for you and your sellers. In hindsight, you could put on the market a new model within 6 months now that you are mastering the abilities of your new brother high speed CNC's should fastened your ability to design new models. New one could be the TC AH (TC fitting All Heads, as other TOTL headphones do).And there would be a hudge soung improvment due to the fact that they would fit almost exactly the shape of each head. Then the next one would be TC LP (TC Laser Pads) : each would have individually made Pads that would fit exactly their ears made in 30 minutes via 3D laser the  TC MS (TC with Memory Shape pads. Or you new cans might be closed ones. Or a BOTL one because you can't stay on one market segment.
> ...



I highly doubt the true cost is below $1000.   I work in the software business where many consumers believe the costs are low, when in reality supporting customers and continuously improving the product is incredibly high.   The costs are not just materials or even the labor that goes into it.   EVERYTHING is gettng more expensive, from the cost of the buildings (or rent) where the team works,  the cost of support staff, research testing and development, travel, mktg, etc etc.       You know what's still cheap?   Throwing bombs and saying 'oh he's not a good businessman.'   
Anyway....let's get back to the sound people.


----------



## deuter

Maxx134 said:


> I liked the Abyss mostly with *this* amp..


Thanks for the valuable input, any more recommendations from the rest of the Abyss 1266 users.


----------



## Zhanming057

deuter said:


> Thanks for the valuable input, any more recommendations from the rest of the Abyss 1266 users.



Frankly, at that price range I would just run it off a speaker amp and not worry about headphone amps at all. 

- My personal choice (and this is what I use to drive all of my cans) is the *Nagra Classic INT*. If you think that the Headtrip or the Formula S is a good Solid State amp, this thing is on a whole other level. It's so ridiculously overengineered that I can run my IEMs on the taps which are capable of going up to 100w, and there's no perceptible noise floor. 
- The *First Watt J2 *is an excellent amp with great synergy on both the 1266 phi and the Susvara and a fantastic deal, if you can find one used. Very clean amp that works well with both tube pre's (for flavor) and passive pre's (for maximum clarity).
- A *Pass INT40* gets you most of the control and dynamics of the Nagra. It's not 100% as good as the Nagra and a bit warmer but I would be very happy to run my Abyss Phi's on one.
- *Viva Egoista 845*/ Solistino. These are the same amp, the only difference is that the Egoista has a front XLR jack and about 40% more expensive. I love 845 tubes with the 1266 phi, the cans need the midrange density that 845 tubes happily provide. The top 2a3/300b options (Stellaris, WA33e) are also extremely good, but I can't shake the feeling that 300b is a better tube for the Focal Utopia.


----------



## tholt (Mar 25, 2019)

Zhanming057 said:


> Frankly, at that price range I would just run it off a speaker amp and not worry about headphone amps at all.



I've been reading about this here and there. How does one safely and properly connect headphones to speaker binding posts? Is the benefit simply a more powerful amp than a headphone amp? Thanks


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## rumina (Mar 25, 2019)

i use the pathos inpol remix (2 x 10w)

you can find this amp used for a great price, tube rolling helps adjusting the sound, i use some siemens cca. i like this chain better then my blue hawaii se /sr-009/sr-007 rig, the headamp has now some holidays @ my attic.

if you whant a new amp it would be the pathos inpol ear (same as inpol remix with some front xlr connection).

nelson pass amps work also fine, had the j2 some time, very neutral, speedy, tube pre is a good idea

for diy the sony vfet from nelson is also great for the abyss , magic mids, fast. i you like tube amps but also the controle of ss amps this is the way to go.

the f5 is more fun oriented, with the abyss it's like a earthquake 

all nelson pass amps i heared need some 20 min to warm up (as the blue hawaii se) a thing that let me often choose another amp.

the dynahi is a good diy choice from kevin gilmore, if you like a neutral sound signature with a lot controll this amp is great (this amp and the pathos are the two in use with the abyss ab-1266 pi or abyss diana phi). you can adjust the sound a bit changing the first stage transitors.

one amp i'm interrested in is the riviera audio aic-10, never heared one. more then once i read that the amp is similar to the pathos but even a tad better.

overall try to find a amp with around 2 x 10 watt or a tad up. the 2 x 5 watt from my ksa5 is ok volume whise but you loose a bit authority vs the amps that have a bit more power.


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## mulder01

tholt said:


> I've been reading about this here and there. How does one safely and properly connect headphones to speaker binding posts? Is the benefit simply a more powerful amp than a headphone amp? Thanks


I think a few companies make 4x banana plugs to 4 pin xlr adapters.  I think you just have to not disconnect them with the power on?
Surprised JPS don't make them actually.
Probably would if you asked though?...


----------



## Zhanming057

tholt said:


> I've been reading about this here and there. How does one safely and properly connect headphones to speaker binding posts? Is the benefit simply a more powerful amp than a headphone amp? Thanks



The 2 channel used market is a lot bigger and the established players put a lot more R&D into their products. It's both a factor of more people being 2 channel enthusiasts and the fact that companies have been around for longer, and their old products remain highly competitive. At the very high end 2 channel companies use better components (Nagra, Accuphase, Brinkmann, to name a few examples) because you just can't put the same parts cost in a headphone amp and sell enough units to make money.

For something like the Abyss you don't need an attenuator - a simple XLR to spade/banana adapter will work. The headphones can take 15w+ without damage and it's only when you get to the seriously big amps that you run even a small risk of blowing the drivers.


----------



## deuter

Zhanming057 said:


> The 2 channel used market is a lot bigger and the established players put a lot more R&D into their products. It's both a factor of more people being 2 channel enthusiasts and the fact that companies have been around for longer, and their old products remain highly competitive. At the very high end 2 channel companies use better components (Nagra, Accuphase, Brinkmann, to name a few examples) because you just can't put the same parts cost in a headphone amp and sell enough units to make money.
> 
> For something like the Abyss you don't need an attenuator - a simple XLR to spade/banana adapter will work. The headphones can take 15w+ without damage and it's only when you get to the seriously big amps that you run even a small risk of blowing the drivers.



What Inhave read though is the amp output is configured for those low impedance speakers and something like 40-50 ohm load might seem too high and therefore negatively impact the sound.


----------



## 506638

jlbrach said:


> completely disagree the HE-1000 was very well reviewed and i owned it and loved it and i upgraded to the v2 which was even better....i have not heard the SE....the fact remains no matter what you think of the 1000 and the upgrades that they were indeed upgrades....



The HE1000 V2 was pitched as containing several tweaks to the original HE1000 that encompassed a mixture of customer feedback and technological improvements to bring about a headphone that Hifiman believed improved on the original formula without breaking away from it altogether.

As Fang put it :
"I believed we could further improve HE1000 V1. So, we listened to feedback and kept working on all year. We are quite happy with how it turned out. Most challenging was to solve the problem that V1 sometimes would sound lean on certain amps."

You should have read all reviews here after the beta test. Even the curves were BAD. The HE-1000 V2 was an upgrade (but the HE1000 stayed on the market for 1 1/2 year, this is 3 times the 1266 CC), similar to the the HE-1000 but without all it's flaws.  You have not heard the SE but you consider it as an upgrade. Anyway, I don't remember exactly when the HE1000-V2 was put on the market but it must be 2 1/2 years ago. And when the V2 was issued, there was a limited time upgrade program : you could send back your HE-1000 and have him modified to V2 for... $650. You forgot to mention that.

You stated that you "could list others exactly the same". Just do it. 

BTW @Joe Skubinski , as you haven't answered my message, I guess I have done something wrong, I'm not used to MP's. So my serial number is 502 9749.


----------



## 506638

deuter said:


> Thanks for the valuable input, any more recommendations from the rest of the Abyss 1266 users.



Yes, I'd be interested in a trick for "little heads". Most of my friends faced the same problem (there are different morphologies in various places in the world and that's a basic part of design) and, as for me, it is the first time they can't wear an headphone (we've tried over 10 different ones).

Japanese were clever 40 years ago (even more for reel to reel) : the issued a black K7 supposed to be more in accordance with the occidental tastes : the TDK OC.


----------



## mulder01

I'll never understand why people think that coming in and flying off the handle is the best way to settle a problem.  I know plenty of other users who have had their issues sorted in a couple of civilised PMs...

But to answer your legitimate question, you have to bend the headband with quite a bit of force - you are re-shaping an aluminum bar a few mm thick.  Also remember that the earpads are only meant to gently touch your ears without pressure - they don't clamp onto your head like a normal headphone - if you put it on and the earpad is gently touching most of the way around, that's it.   If you make it too tight you'll lose your bass and soundstage (at least you did on the original version anyway).  If you shake your head from side to side a bit, they will move around.  That's the way they are


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## rumina (Mar 25, 2019)

the impedance of loudspeakers are not linear, often more then 40 ohm around 40-100hz. so most good engineered loudspeakers amp have no problem with loads high as the abyss or susvara.

cheap loudspeaker amps can have here problems (also with loudspeakers) and/or if the headphones are much higher then 100ohm.

low efficency and high ohm headphones then need a dynahi that can handle this high loads perfect.

ps not true for tube amps, then you need the right output transformer


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## 506638 (Mar 25, 2019)

mulder01 said:


> To answer your legitimate question, you have to bend the headband with quite a bit of force - you are re-shaping an aluminum bar a few mm thick.  Also remember that the earpads are only meant to gently touch your ears without pressure - they don't clamp onto your head like a normal headphone - if you put it on and the earpad is gently touching most of the way around, that's it.   If you make it too tight you'll lose your bass and soundstage (at least you did on the original version anyway).  If you shake your head from side to side a bit, they will move around.  That's the way they are



Now, if I re-shape the aluminum, what about the next owner (if I find one) ? He'll have to re-shape it and the headband will break.


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## FLTWS

mulder01 said:


> I'll never understand why people think that coming in and flying off the handle is the best way to settle a problem.  I know plenty of other users who have had their issues sorted in a couple of civilised PMs...
> 
> But to answer your legitimate question, you have to bend the headband with quite a bit of force - you are re-shaping an aluminum bar a few mm thick.  Also remember that the earpads are only meant to gently touch your ears without pressure - they don't clamp onto your head like a normal headphone - if you put it on and the earpad is gently touching most of the way around, that's it.   If you make it too tight you'll lose your bass and soundstage (at least you did on the original version anyway).  If you shake your head from side to side a bit, they will move around.  That's the way they are



That's been my experience as well with regard to the fit and the sound.


----------



## moderators

We've cleaned up a number of posts in this thread. Let's get back on track and discuss your AB-1266 impressions.

Thank you in advance.


----------



## 506638

mulder01 said:


> But to answer your legitimate question, you have to bend the headband with quite a bit of force - you are re-shaping an aluminum bar a few mm thick.  Also remember that the earpads are only meant to gently touch your ears without pressure - they don't clamp onto your head like a normal headphone - if you put it on and the earpad is gently touching most of the way around, that's it.   If you make it too tight you'll lose your bass and soundstage (at least you did on the original version anyway).  If you shake your head from side to side a bit, they will move around.  That's the way they are



Thanx but it is a no way for me : I have an arm disabled. May be the client service could help me in France. What would be @Joe Skubinski suggestion ? There, I hear more the step of my neighbor above than the sound of the the Abyss.



mulder01 said:


> But to answer your legitimate question, you have to bend the headband with quite a bit of force - you are re-shaping an aluminum bar a few mm thick.  Also remember that the earpads are only meant to gently touch your ears without pressure - they don't clamp onto your head like a normal headphone - if you put it on and the earpad is gently touching most of the way around, that's it.   If you make it too tight you'll lose your bass and soundstage (at least you did on the original version anyway).  If you shake your head from side to side a bit, they will move around.  That's the way they are



It'sa no way for me. As @Joe Skubinski knows it, I have a disable arm. So I'm waiting for his suggestion about what the client service can do


----------



## tholt

Zhanming057 said:


> For something like the Abyss you don't need an attenuator - a simple XLR to spade/banana adapter will work. The headphones can take 15w+ without damage and it's only when you get to the seriously big amps that you run even a small risk of blowing the drivers.



Sounds easy enough. What should I be looking for spec-wise in a suitable stereo amp to ensure compatibility and simpatico with the 1266?


----------



## tholt

Looks like another alternative would be using a conversion/adapter like the Hifiman HE-Adapter? This would probably ensure peace of mind but hopefully not adversely affect SQ.


----------



## mulder01

@tholt have you seen this thread?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/speaker-amps-for-headphones.649107/page-215


----------



## tholt

mulder01 said:


> @tholt have you seen this thread?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/speaker-amps-for-headphones.649107/page-215



Haven't, thank you for the link. I'll dig through it. Still interested in specific thoughts with respect to amp + Abyss though, since it was recently brought up and this headphone loves power. Might be a viable solution for me.


----------



## Zhanming057

@tholt No need for the Hifiman adapter unless you have a really cheap amp with poor protector. Anything that'll blow out the Abyss will also blow out efficient speakers. My impression is that the adapter does degrade audio quality, but it's not a huge deal and it's up to you whether you want the peace of mind. Personally, I don't bother with it.

As for compatibility, not much in particular. If you're interested in a particularly exotic amp design it might be a good idea to ask around. Generally, keep in mind that a WA5 or WA33 is no different from a 300b/2a3 speaker amp (the taps are on the same wire as the XLR), and solid state amps are very compatible with cans in general.


----------



## tholt

mulder01 said:


> I think a few companies make 4x banana plugs to 4 pin xlr adapters.  I think you just have to not disconnect them with the power on?
> Surprised JPS don't make them actually.
> Probably would if you asked though?...



Digging more and the answer to this question is likely this response from Joe:


Joe Skubinski said:


> It's not like a speaker amp will sound better than a headphone amp, they will have differing sonic traits just as headphone amps do. The quality of the speaker amp is just as important as the quality of the headphone amp, and since speaker amps require much larger power supplies they will typically be more expensive for an equivalent level of refinement.
> 
> preproman is using a low power Pass Labs amplifier, one of the clearest amplifiers money can buy, and not exactly inexpensive, so no doubt it will perform admirably with the AB-1266. You have very poor odds of really enjoying any random amp with these headphones.
> 
> Also need to be careful as a speaker amp may not play nice without a proper load and can cause damage to the amp and headphone. Best bet if you're going to use a speaker amp is to check with the manufacturer as to whether it will be stable with a higher impedance headphone load above 16 ohms.


----------



## lamaslamas

Did anybody have a chance to test the Abyss with Feliks Amps like Euforia or Elise?


----------



## Articnoise

Zhanming057 said:


> @tholt *No need for the Hifiman adapter unless you have a really cheap amp with poor protector.* Anything that'll blow out the Abyss will also blow out efficient speakers. My impression is that the adapter does degrade audio quality, but it's not a huge deal and it's up to you whether you want the peace of mind. Personally, I don't bother with it.
> 
> As for compatibility, not much in particular. If you're interested in a particularly exotic amp design it might be a good idea to ask around. Generally, keep in mind that a WA5 or WA33 is no different from a 300b/2a3 speaker amp (the taps are on the same wire as the XLR), and solid state amps are very compatible with cans in general.



…or a tube amp.


----------



## mulder01

tholt said:


> Digging more and the answer to this question is likely this response from Joe:


Yeah makes a lot of sense.  The ability to use a speaker amp could be a big advantage if you were going to add headphones to a speaker system you already owned and liked, and you already owned an amp that cost you a pretty penny, you could take advantage of that and not need to buy a separate dedicated headphone amp.  Or if you could pick up something second hand - maybe something vintage, but still nice sounding for a bargain basement price then that'd be good to.  If you're buying new, and specifically and exclusively for headphones, probably not _as_ worth it... ?  Everyone has different reasons though I guess.  TBH, I have not had much of a read through that thread I linked you...


----------



## Zhanming057

Articnoise said:


> …or a tube amp.



There's no inherent issue with tube amps. Woo, Viva and Traformatic make tube headphone amps that are functional 2 channel amps from the same output circuitry. 

As long as you remember to keep the cans plugged in when turning the amp on, you're fine.


----------



## Articnoise

Zhanming057 said:


> There's no inherent issue with tube amps. Woo, Viva and Traformatic make tube headphone amps that are functional 2 channel amps from the same output circuitry.
> 
> As long as you remember to keep the cans plugged in when turning the amp on, you're fine.



The Hifiman HE adapter is for use with speaker amps. It has speaker connectors on the input and XLR output. Tube amps do need to have a proper load or they blow up. In a tube headphone amplifier they use resistors to do the same as the HE adapter do. You don’t need to use the Hifiman HE adapter even with tube speaker amps, you can put resistors on the taps instead.  

http://store.hifiman.com/index.php/he-adapter.html


----------



## Zhanming057

Articnoise said:


> The Hifiman HE adapter is for use with speaker amps. It has speaker connectors on the input and XLR output. Tube amps do need to have a proper load or they blow up. In a tube headphone amplifier they use resistors to do the same as the HE adapter do. You don’t need to use the Hifiman HE adapter even with tube speaker amps, you can put resistors on the taps instead.
> 
> http://store.hifiman.com/index.php/he-adapter.html



That's what I meant. If you plug the headphones in when turning the amp on, the load issue is virtually nil. 

I've run the 1266 phi's straight off the Viva Egoista, from the taps of the WA5 and from several KT88 and 300b power amps without any issues.


----------



## Articnoise

Zhanming057 said:


> That's what I meant. If you plug the headphones in when turning the amp on, the load issue is virtually nil.
> 
> I've run the 1266 phi's straight off the Viva Egoista, from the taps of the WA5 and from several KT88 and 300b power amps without any issues.



The discussion was about then to use of the Hifiman HE adapter which you can’t use with a headphone amps.

There is an “inherent issue with tube amps” they need to have a proper load or they can blow up and I only added a reminder about it. Solid state amp doesn’t have this kind of issue.


----------



## simorag

A nice preview about the AB-1266 TC from Jude here around 31:20.

Enjoy!

P.S.: I can't wait to hear my pair, coming within the end of this week according to DHL


----------



## FLTWS

simorag said:


> A nice preview about the AB-1266 TC from Jude here around 31:20.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> P.S.: I can't wait to hear my pair, coming within the end of this week according to DHL



Drool. I've had a morning and afternoon session of Bartok so far today with the CC going back and forth between my Ragnarok and Formula S with Superconductor and / or Dana Nirvana and saying to myself is that congestion I hear in dynamic spots the shortcoming of the CC, the recording(s), or something else in my chain. I'm on the list for a loaner and I am stoked! Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Articnoise said:


> …or a tube amp.



WA5, thanks to @Joe Skubinski is sublime with the Abyss.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Zhanming057 said:


> That's what I meant. If you plug the headphones in when turning the amp on, the load issue is virtually nil.
> 
> I've run the 1266 phi's straight off the Viva Egoista, from the taps of the WA5 and from several KT88 and 300b power amps without any issues.



Quick question, since the XLR output is the same as the speaker taps on the WA5 (unless I’m incorrect), why would you not use the XLR out? I’m supposed to receive the HE6se Tour Headphone in the next couple days, so your answer will be helpful.


----------



## Zhanming057

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Quick question, since the XLR output is the same as the speaker taps on the WA5 (unless I’m incorrect), why would you not use the XLR out? I’m supposed to receive the HE6se Tour Headphone in the next couple days, so your answer will be helpful.



No difference...just out of curiosity, since the taps are connected directly to the XLR jack.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Zhanming057 said:


> No difference...just out of curiosity, since the taps are connected directly to the XLR jack.



Thank you Sir!


----------



## FLTWS

Wildcatsare1 said:


> WA5, thanks to @Joe Skubinski is sublime with the Abyss.



Even with the couple of tube amps I already have that WA-5 still keeps coming to mind, I've always wanted to hear a Woo with my 1266.


----------



## Wildcatsare1 (Mar 27, 2019)

FLTWS said:


> Even with the couple of tube amps I already have that WA-5 still keeps coming to mind, I've always wanted to hear a Woo with my 1266.



Come on down to Lexington, Spring is here and you are welcome to listen to any of my gear, any time.

Edit: Typo


----------



## FLTWS

LOL, are you using a 1266 with the WA5?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I was, but when the Vérité arrived, I sold my OG’s, and Utopia.​


----------



## FLTWS

Those Verite's must be special to sell 1266 and Utopia.


----------



## Tekunda (Mar 27, 2019)

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I was, but when the Vérité arrived, I sold my OG’s, and Utopia.​


Are you able to give us a short synopsis about the sonic differences between the Verite vs the Utopia and Abyss?
Especially for the Verite it is very difficult to set up an audition with a dealer here in Germany and as far as I know, ZMF will not be in Munich at the Highend audioshow either.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Tekunda said:


> Are you able to give us a short synopsis about the sonic differences between the Verite vs the Utopia and Abyss?
> Especially for the Verite it is very difficult to set up an audition with a dealer here in Germany and as far as I know, ZMF will not be in Munich at the Highend audioshow either.



Sure, I’m actually thinking of dusting of the rust and coming out of reviewing retirement and writing up the Vérité. 

I found the speed and dynamics falling just a tad below the Utopia, but, the Vérité remains musical (very subjective), without the metallic ringing I heard on less than perfect recordings or when pushing the volume. In fact, the impact may be even better on the ZMF-V than the Utopia, again very subjective, but I’ve had my ptsd triggered by unexpected, powerful percussion strikes. 

With the OG Abyss, they have an entirely different take on music,  and I loved them. Though I didn’t like the fit, the constant fiddling required. I also realize at with Abyss’s continuing development and upgrades, it was just out of my financial capabilities to keep up. I’m disabled, so I’m not begrudging anyone, Abyss or those who continue to climb Joe’s development ladder. God bless them, I just have to be realistic about what my capabilities are currently.

With that said, I just closed a deal for an E2, so I look forward to comparing it to the Vérité!


----------



## JLoud

I'm curious about the Utopia vs Verite comparison. I currently have the Utopia and LCD-4 and am seriously considering a Verite. Are they complementary or enough similar to sell one to help fund the ZMF purchase?


----------



## jlbrach

i am using the Formula S with my Phi TC...great combo


----------



## deuter

In the quest to find a budget perfect amp and preferably a DAC combination for the Abyss, I came across this one.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cayin-i...m=183142554878&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Anyone have any experience with this combo?


----------



## tholt

deuter said:


> In the quest to find a budget perfect amp and preferably a DAC combination for the Abyss, I came across this one.



I recently used a Cayin i-HA6. It is a solid budget amp and better than I've heard from other amps, but I don't think it ultimately brings out the most from the 1266. My sense anyway.


----------



## mulder01

deuter said:


> In the quest to find a budget perfect amp and preferably a DAC combination for the Abyss, I came across this one.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cayin-iHA-6-Fully-Balanced-Headphone-Amp-Cayin-iDAC-6-Digital-Audio-Converter/183142554878?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=20140106155344&meid=ca80fe20b9ce43ad8e38894604aed8e2&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=12&sd=183705660700&itm=183142554878&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
> 
> Anyone have any experience with this combo?


No.  But.
I see that's in Aussie dollars.  If you are in Aus, I would go for this:
https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/coll...ectric-audio-hpa-v220-headphone-pre-amplifier
Owned and loved the v281 for years and this is exactly the same amp without the balanced out for very cheap.  Looks like it might be the demo model as they only have one in silver, but still.  A nice musical amp without breaking the bank.


----------



## deuter

mulder01 said:


> No.  But.
> I see that's in Aussie dollars.  If you are in Aus, I would go for this:
> https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/coll...ectric-audio-hpa-v220-headphone-pre-amplifier
> Owned and loved the v281 for years and this is exactly the same amp without the balanced out for very cheap.  Looks like it might be the demo model as they only have one in silver, but still.  A nice musical amp without breaking the bank.



Iam in Melbourne, really looking to get a balanced amp.
What about Audio GD offerings like the NFB27h?


----------



## mulder01

I've not tried any audioGD.  Why balanced?
You do live in probably the best city in Australia to audition headphone gear btw...


----------



## simorag

TheAttorney said:


> My view is that if you have a DAVE then stop chasing after low efficiency headphones and save yourself a ton of money and space on your hifi rack.



This is a very sensible advice indeed.

If one's priority is to capitalize at best DAVE's transparency, then investing on a great source and high efficiency headphones gives the best bang for the buck, and you would end up with a minimalistic high end headphone rig.

On the other hand, I would not give up the unique overall experience the AB-1266 can provide with the DAVE plus a good powerful amp in the name of preserving DAVE's transparency alone …​


----------



## deuter

mulder01 said:


> I've not tried any audioGD.  Why balanced?
> You do live in probably the best city in Australia to audition headphone gear btw...



I need to get to Addicted to Audio to audition, wonder what gems they will recommend.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

JLoud said:


> I'm curious about the Utopia vs Verite comparison. I currently have the Utopia and LCD-4 and am seriously considering a Verite. Are they complementary or enough similar to sell one to help fund the ZMF purchase?



After receiving my Vérité, I sold my Utopia. The former is within a whisker of the later’s speed, but is far for musical (highly subjective), has superior tone (no metallic sheen), and has a better headstage.


----------



## simorag

The TC eagle has landed


----------



## deuter

Has someone tried the Abyss with a Questyle Amp ?

https://www.apollohifi.com.au/quest...4i65HhUgUZzCaIoQLQfF7TFMK_KT7xMEaArEIEALw_wcB


----------



## Mikey99

deuter said:


> Has someone tried the Abyss with a Questyle Amp ?
> 
> https://www.apollohifi.com.au/quest...4i65HhUgUZzCaIoQLQfF7TFMK_KT7xMEaArEIEALw_wcB


I auditioned them with a Questyle golden stack. I compared to the Formula S. I preferred the Formula S, sound was warmer and more to my preference,


----------



## fogs

Tried briefly with a CMA600i. Muddy, flat sound and clearly underpowered, while the 600i rocks with easier loads like eg. Beyer 1770 Pro, LCD-3 etc.


----------



## Zhanming057

Mikey99 said:


> I auditioned them with a Questyle golden stack. I compared to the Formula S. I preferred the Formula S, sound was warmer and more to my preference,



The 800R gold stack is definitely more about finer control and doesn't have the raw power of the Formula S. On the Mysphere 3.2 or the Utopia is where they work their magic. The 1266 phi is of course much more power-hungry. 

The Questyle all-in-one's make for better DAC's than they are headphone amps. For the 600i IMO there's an argument about just running it as a DAC for a stronger headphone amp.


----------



## elton7033

Zhanming057 said:


> The 800R gold stack is definitely more about finer control and doesn't have the raw power of the Formula S. On the Mysphere 3.2 or the Utopia is where they work their magic. The 1266 phi is of course much more power-hungry.
> 
> The Questyle all-in-one's make for better DAC's than they are headphone amps. For the 600i IMO there's an argument about just running it as a DAC for a stronger headphone amp.


Is it too late for me to join the abyss game? How will you compare the abyss to your mysphere or Raal SR1A with the masskobo 394 II ? I just got my 394 II so now I am looking for a headphone which can use up its power, the only headphone which is demanding that I currently own is a k1000late which is not the best thing out there compare to recent high ends


----------



## Zhanming057

elton7033 said:


> Is it too late for me to join the abyss game? How will you compare the abyss to your mysphere or Raal SR1A with the masskobo 394 II ? I just got my 394 II so now I am looking for a headphone which can use up its power, the only headphone which is demanding that I currently own is a k1000late which is not the best thing out there compare to recent high ends



It works quite well with both the Abyss and the Mysphere (3.2) - I bought mine for the HD800S, then ran it with the Abyss for a while and then with both the Abyss and the Mysphere before I sold mine. With the Abyss it's the tiniest bit underpowered but a great complimentary signature, with great control.

That said, if you really enjoy the K1000, the Mysphere 3.2 is very much a modernized version, while the 1266 phi is a very different beast altogether.


----------



## elton7033

Zhanming057 said:


> It works quite well with both the Abyss and the Mysphere (3.2) - I bought mine for the HD800S, then ran it with the Abyss for a while and then with both the Abyss and the Mysphere before I sold mine. With the Abyss it's the tiniest bit underpowered but a great complimentary signature, with great control.
> 
> That said, if you really enjoy the K1000, the Mysphere 3.2 is very much a modernized version, while the 1266 phi is a very different beast altogether.


Thanks I sort of like the k1000 ultra wide soundstage but again I have a Martin Logan full electrostatic speaker set up at home for soundstage... might as well try the abyss 1266phi, the abyss really need lots of power does it, even the survara runs well in the 394 from my experience...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Really looking forward to reviewing the new TC! I'll be purchasing a pair for myself as well as I was such a huge fan of the Phi. After talking with Joe about the improvements today, I'm really stoked to hear the brilliant Abyss Phi with even more detail extraction! And unlike the SR-009s which offered gobs of detail, the tonality is still Abyss (i.e. speaker-like; without ever sounding thin). Can't wait!


----------



## simorag (Apr 4, 2019)

Very early impressions after about 1 week with the TC, coming from the Phi w/ CC pads.

Most apparent technical improvements are clarity / resolution and bass.
The former was expected given how the TC was marketed since its introduction, and because I felt resolution was an improvement area of the regular Phi, while the latter caught me by surprise since I thought the Phi bass was very hard to improve.

How these technical upgrades translate into music enjoyment improvements for me:
- impressive palpability and presence of vocals and solo instruments (e.g. sax)
- fine details like singer breathing, background sounds / noise, ambient effects, finger motion on string etc. are disclosed, adding "you are there" effect
- articulation / readability of very complex, crowded musical pieces is improved.
- solid imaging and instrument separation make you believe you see the band around / in front of you
- effortless / distortion-free dynamics: listening how the TC handles moving from ppp to fff with uncompressed dynamic range classical recordings is glorious since you can easily follow the musical phrasing at both ends of the dynamic spectrum without loosing details in ppp or feel congested on fff
- extremely physical perception of bass / sub-bass (airwaves impacting your eardrums, skull rattling 20Hz vibrations) together with great control and believable decay makes organ, double bass orchestral sections, lowest piano or electric bass keys sound even more real

As a very treble sensitive person, I thought the Phi was on the brighter side of neutral and slightly sibilant with less-than-perfect recordings. This stands with the TC as well, while slightly improved / mitigated from a bit smoother midrange, a general finer grain and a warmer background from the richer mid-bass.

All in all I feel the TC builds up on the strengths of the AB-1266 Phi (speaker-like presentation, soundstage and imaging, bass), and improves strongly on clarity and microdetails, while keeping the same tonal balance and general sound signature.

More detailed impressions will come as I complete the burn-in in the next weeks, but I can say at this time I am happy with my TC upgrade


----------



## FLTWS

simorag said:


> Very early impressions after about 1 week with the TC, coming from the Phi w/ CC pads.
> 
> Most apparent technical improvements are clarity / resolution and bass.
> The former was expected given how the TC was marketed since its introduction, and because I felt resolution was an improvement area of the regular Phi, while the latter caught me by surprise since I thought the Phi bass was very hard to improve.
> ...



Can't wait till I come up on the audition list.


----------



## mulder01

FLTWS said:


> Can't wait till I come up on the audition list.


The audition list?  Is this through the cable co?


----------



## FLTWS

Yes.


----------



## 506638

simorag said:


> Very early impressions after about 1 week with the TC, coming from the Phi w/ CC pads.
> 
> Most apparent technical improvements are clarity / resolution and bass.
> The former was expected given how the TC was marketed since its introduction, and because I felt resolution was an improvement area of the regular Phi, while the latter caught me by surprise since I thought the Phi bass was very hard to improve.
> ...



Just got mine from the Netherlands. Never found the Phi sibilant  (as a matter of fact nobody mentioned this fact before the TC appeared). More to come when burn in is complete within 10 days.


----------



## elton7033

ok, they dont have a 1266 Phi CC or TC demo anywhere in Tokyo, not in Hong Kong as well, now I am trying to force myself to buy something that i have never tried before.....idk may be not a very good idea


----------



## mulder01

elton7033 said:


> ok, they dont have a 1266 Phi CC or TC demo anywhere in Tokyo, not in Hong Kong as well, now I am trying to force myself to buy something that i have never tried before.....idk may be not a very good idea


Maybe keep an eye out for an older model in the for sale section and if you don't like it, sell it on for a minimal loss, and if you love it, either just keep it, or buy a new TC with confidence you have made the right choice?


----------



## simorag (Apr 6, 2019)

Some exciting - eclectic - listening with the TC today … how fun!







P.S.: piano is a TC highlight for sure 

P.P.S.: the last recording listed above is a good example of a situation where the Abyss driven by the Formula S amp are more enjoyable than directly fed by the DAVE. The recording SPL level is well below average, and the Formula S provides a grander rendering of the piano dynamics, effortless transients and more layered harmonics structure reproduction.

By the way, the Phi TC are a bit harder to drive than the Phi, and I find myself going through the amp in most cases for now.


----------



## deuter

What volume level are you using on the formula s for the phi tc


----------



## Mikey99

simorag said:


> Some exciting - eclectic - listening with the TC today … how fun!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just picked up the 40th Anniversary edition of Zappa in New York! Fantastic 5 disk set with booklet and manhole cover packaging.

I also just got my TC, starting to listen to it now.


----------



## jlbrach

simorag said:


> Some exciting - eclectic - listening with the TC today … how fun!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree that the TC us a bit harder to drive than the Phi and does need the help of an amp with the dave unless you are listening to very loud compressed music...i too am using the formula s and love it


----------



## spotforscott

jlbrach said:


> I agree that the TC us a bit harder to drive than the Phi and does need the help of an amp with the dave unless you are listening to very loud compressed music...i too am using the formula s and love it



That is not my experience. I listen mostly to acoustic, vocal, blues and jazz and the DAVE is sublime with the TC. The transparency of the DAVE combined with the added transparency of the TC (over the Phi) is a match made in heaven. Further, my experience in terms of efficiency is that the Phi is virtually the same as the TC. I would never consider putting an amp between the DAVE and the TC. YMMV


----------



## jlbrach

As I said there is some music that simply cannot be properly enjoyed IMHO with the Dave and the tc without an amp and at canjam
Rob watts agreed with me that both the susvara and abyss need an amp for most non compressed music. I go back and forth but come down on the side of the formula s which was built with abyss in mind


----------



## spotforscott

As you say, it's your opinion and I am just expressing mine. I spoke up because, with the TC, I want to make sure everyone has a balanced view, it's certainly not a "black and white kind of decision. The added transparency/ resolution of the TC is really special when partnered with a quality source. I really liked the Phi for that but I love the TC! For the genre I listen to, the DAVE is plenty powerful and a perfect match. However, if I was listening to a lot of classical music I might feel different, I'm not sure - just not into classical.


----------



## simorag (Apr 7, 2019)

deuter said:


> What volume level are you using on the formula s for the phi tc



The Formula S volume knob goes from 11 o'clock to 9. With the DAVE set in "DAC mode" (-3dB, 6VRMS) and with the M Scaler in the chain (which implies a supplementary -3dB headroom), my listening is typically between 2 and 3. In the case of the piano recording I mentioned in my post above, I needed to go well over 4 in order to get realistic levels.
In some occasions, mostly with classical and especially large orchestral works and piano, I went between 5 and 6.
That range is where the DAVE alone feels strained and congested compared to the Formula S.



spotforscott said:


> I listen mostly to acoustic, vocal, blues and jazz and the DAVE is sublime with the TC. The transparency of the DAVE combined with the added transparency of the TC (over the Phi) is a match made in heaven. Further, my experience in terms of efficiency is that the Phi is virtually the same as the TC. I would never consider putting an amp between the DAVE and the TC. YMMV



I agree that with the genres you mentioned (I would add chamber music) DAVE's transparency and capability of resolving depth is a blessing. While the Formula S "robs" only a small part of it, sometimes that small part can be enough to take away the magic. Some examples below.



 

 




According to the specifications from the JPS website, the TC has 47 Ohm impedance whereas the Phi had 42 Ohm (both being 88dB/mW sensitive), therefore a (small) reduction of efficiency is to be expected.


----------



## FLTWS

FWIW: from some Abyss and Evolution of Sound website spec sheets:

*ABYSS:  1266 vs 1266 Phi CC vs 1266 TC*


----------



## simorag

FLTWS said:


> FWIW: from some Abyss and Evolution of Sound website spec sheets:
> 
> *ABYSS:  1266 vs 1266 Phi CC vs 1266 TC*



Well, in my system I would say I need to turn up the volume by a bit less than 1hr to have the same volume of the Phi with the TC. I am going by memory, so I could be wrong 
​Out of curiosity, I would be interested in a definitive word from @Joe Skubinski about this. I am pretty sure the Phi (and Phi CC) spec available on the JPS website were 42Ohm / 88dB, whereas the OG AB-1266 was 46Ohm / 85dB .


----------



## FLTWS (Apr 7, 2019)

I remember seeing a reference on one of the JPS Labs info sheets 42 ohms in conjunction with the Phi. (Edit:I found it on  hard copy on a page with comparisons / prices of the different 1266 packages on the website).

I know if I set up any of my HP's on a 300 Hz test tone and then reset the volume by + or - 3 db with my sound level meter the perceived difference in loudness is quite noticeable. But I'm not sure if it's the same applied to sensitivity after factoring in any difference in impedance load.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Apr 9, 2019)

JPS told me the phi will be able to be upgraded to the tc drivers beginning in next few months.


----------



## deuter

rsbrsvp said:


> Abyss told me the phi will be able to be upgraded to the tc drivers beginning in next few months.



What amp you using with the Abyss 1266


----------



## rsbrsvp (Apr 9, 2019)

deuter said:


> What amp you using with the Abyss 1266


Audio-gd. HE-9


----------



## deuter

Nice have you compared it to any other amps with the abyss


----------



## rsbrsvp

Audio-gd. HE-9


deuter said:


> Nice have you compared it to any other amps with the abyss


no


----------



## Zhanming057

rsbrsvp said:


> JPS told me the phi will be able to be upgraded to the tc drivers beginning in next few months.



Really? Joe told me over Canjam that the Phi cannot be upgraded to the TC because the enclosure is too different.

Was this from Joe or a dealer?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

He meant the Phi CC...


----------



## Zhanming057

Joe Skubinski said:


> He meant the Phi CC...



The Phi CC can be upgraded to the TC, but the Phi can't? Are the enclosures of the Phi CC and the Phi different?


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Apr 9, 2019)

The original and Phi are older frame designs, the CC and TC differ in design and finish, not to mention the new leathers. The new TC has added details machined into the frame. At some point we'll have new photos that shows this in greater detail.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Correct

I have a phi cc

Im curious what upgrade to tc will cost?


----------



## 506638

$1500 minimum


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Joe Skubinski said:


> The original and Phi are older frame designs, the CC and TC differ in design and finish, not to mention the new leathers. The new TC has added details machined into the frame. At some point we'll have new photos that shows this in greater detail.


Ah, bummer for me.  I got so excited seeing mention of the upgrade option!   . But I have an upgraded Phi with CC pads, and I believe it is the original frame (I'm not the first owner of this pair).   Sounds like those have reached the end of the line...


----------



## deuter

mt-hifidelity said:


> Ah, bummer for me.  I got so excited seeing mention of the upgrade option!   . But I have an upgraded Phi with CC pads, and I believe it is the original frame (I'm not the first owner of this pair).   Sounds like those have reached the end of the line...



There is no reason to be disappointed,  it’s an amazing headphone.
Just because there is a new version out does not make your set inferior.
It’s like saying I bought a Ferrari and now there is a newer more expensive one.
Don’t forget you still have the Ferrari


----------



## mt-hifidelity

deuter said:


> There is no reason to be disappointed,  it’s an amazing headphone.
> Just because there is a new version out does not make your set inferior.
> It’s like saying I bought a Ferrari and now there is a newer more expensive one.
> Don’t forget you still have the Ferrari


Very true.  I should not allow myself to fall into that trap!   Without spending a fortune, I'm trying to figure out which item in my current chain to upgrade in order to maximize the SQ of my current Abyss Phi.  I have some third-party knockoffs of the Super Aluminata cables which aren't bad but not nearly as good as the real ones (only recently did JPS determine they were fakes).   I have the iFi iCan Pro, which is a capable amp but not on the level as others discussed here.  I'm using the iFi iPro DSD as my source over usb.   Ethernet bridging is not working for me no matter what I try.   I'm unlikely to get a third party power supply or digital clock for the DSD Pro, and I don't want to shell out for another DAC, so I've mostly thought about upgrading either the amp, the cables, or the Phi itself.    Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the current setup.   Audiophilia is a journey but its wise to stop and breathe.  I have to remind myself sometimes!


----------



## tholt

mt-hifidelity said:


> Audiophilia is a journey but its wise to stop and breathe. I have to remind myself sometimes!



So very true. It's so easy to get caught up in upgraditis and not appreciate where you already are, at least for me. I have not heard the iFi iCan Pro but I've read others state that it's good but not great with the Abyss, and also has a somewhat lean presentation. My .02 is that if you're generally happy with the Abyss now, changing/upgrading the amp will make more of an appreciable difference than changing other things in the chain. Of course, this probably won't be cheap either....


----------



## mt-hifidelity

tholt said:


> So very true. It's so easy to get caught up in upgraditis and not appreciate where you already are, at least for me. I have not heard the iFi iCan Pro but I've read others state that it's good but not great with the Abyss, and also has a somewhat lean presentation. My .02 is that if you're generally happy with the Abyss now, changing/upgrading the amp will make more of an appreciable difference than changing other things in the chain. Of course, this probably won't be cheap either....


I agree, I've mostly researched amps as the next upgrade option.  I like the Formula S but am also tempted by the battery-powered balanced Broadway because it opens up a bit of portability.  And is significantly less $.


----------



## tholt

I was also eyeing the balanced Broadway, but I wasn't sure if it had enough power/synergy with the 1266? IIRC the images all showed it with the Diana. I never did directly inquire, however.


----------



## Zhanming057

tholt said:


> I was also eyeing the balanced Broadway, but I wasn't sure if it had enough power/synergy with the 1266? IIRC the images all showed it with the Diana. I never did directly inquire, however.



It works, obviously not the best but if you have to use a portable amp, it's probably your best choice outside of super exotic stuff.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

I enjoyed the Abyss Phi with the Broadway quite a bit.   I never found it lacking, but of course the Formula S stack takes it to another level.  Its a great match for the Diana.
I also have the Monoprice Liquid Spark amp designed by Alex Cavalli.  For $100 its a surprisingly good single-ended option.  Jason from JPS recommended it while we chatted at CanJam.  If you added a battery pack to it you'd have a wonderful portable system for the Diana Phi.  It even does a good job with the Abyss Phi, certainly surpassing the Hugo 2 alone which is my other portable option.   Just don't compare it to the Formula S or upper-end Woos...


----------



## FLTWS (Apr 9, 2019)

Just to clarify, I bought my Phi new 11/2017. I added the CC pads in July 2018 when they released. So I have a Phi with CC pads added, but not a Phi CC (with different housing, etc.). Perhaps a date of issue or serial number starting might make it more clear.


----------



## JLoud

I would recommend the Woo WA5le. My current amp. It drives my Phi CC with authority. In high power setting 11 o'clock is ear splitting. And the bass slam is fantastic. Wonderful option if you like tubes.


----------



## mulder01

FLTWS said:


> Just to clarify, I bought my Phi new 11/2017. I added the CC pads in July 2018 when they released. So I have a Phi with CC pads added, but not a Phi CC (with different housing, etc.). Perhaps a date of issue or serial number starting might make it more clear.


I think they will make it more clear when it is officially announced.  I get the feeling rsbrsvp may have jumped the gun on making that public information...


----------



## Tekunda (Apr 10, 2019)

simorag said:


> That range is where the DAVE alone feels strained and congested compared to the Formula S.



Wouldn't it be better to run the Abyss phi on a Mscaler/HUGOTT2 combo instead of Mscaler/Dave? The HugoTT2 puts out:

Output power (unbalanced): (@1% THD) 288 mW RMS 300Ω; 7.3 W RMS 8Ω

Output power (balanced): (@1% THD) 1.15 W RMS 300Ω; 18W RMS 8Ω

versus the Dave:

1% THD 6.8v RMS with 300Ω (154mW)

1% THD 6.8v RMS with 33Ω (1.4w)

From looking at the numbers, the HUGOTT2 should have plenty of power to run the Abyss phi headphones.
And no connectivity issues would occur when hooking up the Mscaler to a HugoTT2. 
The other, much more expensive option is to hook up the Mscaler to a Dave first and go from the Dave to an amp.


----------



## rsbrsvp

mulder01 said:


> I think they will make it more clear when it is officially announced.  I get the feeling rsbrsvp may have jumped the gun on making that public information...


I was not told by the company to keep this info hush so I see no problem.


----------



## simorag

Tekunda said:


> Wouldn't it be better to run the Abyss phi on a Mscaler/HUGOTT2 combo instead of Mscaler/Dave?
> …
> From looking at the numbers, the HUGOTT2 should have plenty of power to run the Abyss phi headphones.
> ...
> The other, much more expensive option is to hook up the Mscaler to a Dave first and go from the Dave to an amp.



If I were in the market for building a system from scratch on a fixed budget for relatively hard to drive headphones like the Abyss, I think I would go for the M Scaler + TT2. For the price, I agree it is the best value proposition in the Chord ecosystem.

In my case, I started from the DAVE as the main "pillar" of my rig. I am addicted to its transparency, timing and depth of soundstage presentation.

From there I went through the "much more expensive option" you mention, by adding the Abyss first, and then an M Scaler and the (Formula S) amp.

I am very happy with the outcome, and I like the possibility to drive the Abyss directly from the DAVE as an option (which works heavenly with the right music genres), but I have not heard the Abyss through the M Scaler / TT2, therefore I cannot comment about the sonic advantages (if any) of my setup over the less expensive HMS/TT2.


----------



## mulder01

rsbrsvp said:


> I was not told by the company to keep this info hush so I see no problem.


I just meant that when they choose to officially announce it, there will be more detailed info to go with it.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

That sounds like a rather fantastic setup.  I would have made the same equipment choices if I had the scratch on hand.   Are you generally using hi-res files over usb?    I do like many of the MQA files I've heard but would sacrifice that for the Chord stack.   



simorag said:


> If I were in the market for building a system from scratch on a fixed budget for relatively hard to drive headphones like the Abyss, I think I would go for the M Scaler + TT2. For the price, I agree it is the best value proposition in the Chord ecosystem.
> 
> In my case, I started from the DAVE as the main "pillar" of my rig. I am addicted to its transparency, timing and depth of soundstage presentation.
> 
> ...


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Mikey99 said:


> I just picked up the 40th Anniversary edition of Zappa in New York! Fantastic 5 disk set with booklet and manhole cover packaging.
> 
> I also just got my TC, starting to listen to it now.



Great Album!!!


----------



## simorag

mt-hifidelity said:


> That sounds like a rather fantastic setup.  I would have made the same equipment choices if I had the scratch on hand.   Are you generally using hi-res files over usb?    I do like many of the MQA files I've heard but would sacrifice that for the Chord stack.



I listen to music files stored in the SSD of my music server, no streaming for me at the moment (this may change in the future, though). The server is connected to the M Scaler via USB (with the ISO Regen / LPS-1 in between).

My library is approximately 60% redbook, 30% high res (mostly 24/96) and 10% DSD (mostly 128).

I have not tried MQA, and I know Chord gear is not MQA certified, neither will likely be given what Rob Watts thinks about the whole thing.

That said, to my ears and in my system (perhaps thanks to the M Scaler), I do not always hear a clear advantage of high res over 16/44. 

The recording "style" of the main labels of which I own material (Deutsche Grammophon, DECCA, EMI Classical, Sony Classical, Chesky, Linn Records, Stockfisch, ECM, Blue Note, Reference Recordings, Original Master Recordings, etc.) is often much more noticeable than the format used. For example a symphony recording from DG will be much different from a Chesky one regardless of the respective format.

Of course, all things being equal - i.e. the same album offered by the same label at various resolution levels - opting for the native format used during the recording is the best option.

When trying the Abyss TC over the weekend, I went through a resolution test I sometimes use, which is playing the material available here as a random playlist and trying to spot blindly the higher res versions from the lower res ones. Success score with the TC outperformed my previous record by the way


----------



## Zhanming057

Tekunda said:


> Wouldn't it be better to run the Abyss phi on a Mscaler/HUGOTT2 combo instead of Mscaler/Dave? The HugoTT2 puts out:
> 
> Output power (unbalanced): (@1% THD) 288 mW RMS 300Ω; 7.3 W RMS 8Ω
> 
> ...



If you just looked at numbers, there are plenty of $200 speaker amps that will drive the Phi's until they literally explode.

I like the TT2. I think that it's far less overpriced than the Dave which still needs the Mscalar to be a truly great DAC, and the TT2+ Mscalar is a powerful combo that can legitimately compete with a number of $10k+ DACs. But if I were using the combo I would still add am amp into the mix.

The formula S is indeed a good option and lends overall control and authority to the cans. You may also want to consider a used speaker amp. This is just my opinion, but a used $3,500 speaker amp such as the Bryston 2.5b3 (or even a new one such as the First Watt J2 or Benchmark AHB2) will make for a substantially better amp for the 1266 phi than the Formula S.


----------



## mulder01

Zhanming057 said:


> a used $3,500 speaker amp such as the Bryston 2.5b3 (or even a new one such as the First Watt J2 or Benchmark AHB2) will make for a substantially better amp for the 1266 phi than the Formula S.


Have you actually tried all these?


----------



## Zhanming057

mulder01 said:


> Have you actually tried all these?



On the 1266 phi? Yes to the Formula S, Bryston and the J2. The AHB2 is more of an educated guess based on the K1000 and HE5, but I was fairly impressed with the amp and felt that it was, at least, highly competitive with the J2. I should mention that this is all straight off the taps with an XLR to spade adapter.


----------



## mulder01

Pretty good deal for anyone in Australia - AUD$4.5k (USD$3.2k) for a brand new CC ($2.5k off just because it's not a TC)
https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/coll.../abyss-ab-1266-phi-planar-magnetic-headphones


----------



## cj3209

mulder01 said:


> Pretty good deal for anyone in Australia - AUD$4.5k (USD$3.2k) for a brand new CC ($2.5k off just because it's not a TC)
> https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/coll.../abyss-ab-1266-phi-planar-magnetic-headphones


Nature of the beast.  Best thing is simply to enjoy what you have and stay away from head-fi.org until you want to upgrade...lol


----------



## tholt

Random observation -- the earcup position makes a huge difference. Looking at the left driver from the inside, I had the cup attached with the seam pointed toward about 1 o'clock. Rotating both cups forward one notch (so the left cup seam is now closer to 2 o'clock) totally transformed the bass to be fuller and go much deeper. All of a sudden I had two small subs strapped to my head. My theory is in this position, there is a small air gap between the cup and my neck, which acts as a port. Anyway, totally unexpected find. YMMV


----------



## lambdastorm (Apr 12, 2019)

tholt said:


> Random observation -- the earcup position makes a huge difference. Looking at the left driver from the inside, I had the cup attached with the seam pointed toward about 1 o'clock. Rotating both cups forward one notch (so the left cup seam is now closer to 2 o'clock) totally transformed the bass to be fuller and go much deeper. All of a sudden I had two small subs strapped to my head. My theory is in this position, there is a small air gap between the cup and my neck, which acts as a port. Anyway, totally unexpected find. YMMV


Abyss has always been a port-your-own-sub kind of headphone. The key is to find a position which leaves neither too wide nor too narrow a gap. For me the ideal position's between 3 and 5 o'clock.


----------



## ufospls2

tholt said:


> Random observation -- the earcup position makes a huge difference. Looking at the left driver from the inside, I had the cup attached with the seam pointed toward about 1 o'clock. Rotating both cups forward one notch (so the left cup seam is now closer to 2 o'clock) totally transformed the bass to be fuller and go much deeper. All of a sudden I had two small subs strapped to my head. My theory is in this position, there is a small air gap between the cup and my neck, which acts as a port. Anyway, totally unexpected find. YMMV



Figuring out personal preference for the settings is the key with the Abyss. Nothing better, for my personal preferences, once you get it right!


----------



## tholt

ufospls2 said:


> Figuring out personal preference for the settings is the key with the Abyss. Nothing better, for my personal preferences, once you get it right!



Yes, this is really exciting. It could have something to do with the new Phi upgrade as well, but I hadn't experienced this level of gut rattling bass before! Nooooooooow I get it


----------



## tholt

lambdastorm said:


> For me the ideal position's between 3 and 5 o'clock.



Seam at 3 to 5 o'clock. I presume that's on the left cup? 

I played around with rotation, but the way the pad is designed (thicker portion on one side, thinner portion opposite), ergonomically the thicker portion seems like it should go towards the bottom of the ear against the upper neck, the thinner side would naturally fit around the upper front of the ear. This puts the seam at around 1 o'clock. At 3 o'clock and more, the thick of the pad is more perpendicular with the back of the ear, or even a little above. Granted this creates a big port area (gap), but it just wouldn't seem the intended position based on the shape of the cup. No? It definitely feels a little weirder than the 1 o'clock position, which feels more natural to me.

However, no denying dat bass.


----------



## lambdastorm (Apr 13, 2019)

tholt said:


> Seam at 3 to 5 o'clock. I presume that's on the left cup?
> 
> I played around with rotation, but the way the pad is designed (thicker portion on one side, thinner portion opposite), ergonomically the thicker portion seems like it should go towards the bottom of the ear against the upper neck, the thinner side would naturally fit around the upper front of the ear. This puts the seam at around 1 o'clock. At 3 o'clock and more, the thick of the pad is more perpendicular with the back of the ear, or even a little above. Granted this creates a big port area (gap), but it just wouldn't seem the intended position based on the shape of the cup. No? It definitely feels a little weirder than the 1 o'clock position, which feels more natural to me.
> 
> However, no denying dat bass.


lol I derped. I meant 1 to 3 o'clock position.
Anyways, it took me a long time to figure out which position sounds best. JPS has a video on YouTube that shows you how to bend the metal frame of the headphone to make the phones comform to the shape of your head. I'm no watermelon head yet my Abyss sounds best with the frames stretched outwards a little bit. Come to think of it, its incredibly clever of JPS to treat a headphone as a ported sub and let users fiddle with the enclosure volume and porting area. Too wide a gap and you end up with lots of loose bass with no extension, too little a gap makes the bass thin and lifeless. Finding the right balance (I wouldn't even call it balance since finding the right fit makes the headphone sound soo much better its literally a free upgrade) can take some time, but in the end its more than worth it.


----------



## mulder01

cj3209 said:


> Nature of the beast.  Best thing is simply to enjoy what you have and stay away from head-fi.org until you want to upgrade...lol


I was moreso pointing it out for anyone who had put off buying an abyss because of the price.  It's not the very latest model, but it's pretty damn close.  
Well, a discount like this would make me pull the trigger if I was on the fence about it anyway...


----------



## cj3209

mulder01 said:


> I was moreso pointing it out for anyone who had put off buying an abyss because of the price.  It's not the very latest model, but it's pretty damn close.
> Well, a discount like this would make me pull the trigger if I was on the fence about it anyway...


Totally agree.  I got a used phi cc for around the same price.  Marvelous 'cans.


----------



## deuter

lambdastorm said:


> lol I derped. I meant 1 to 3 o'clock position.
> Anyways, it took me a long time to figure out which position sounds best. JPS has a video on YouTube that shows you how to bend the metal frame of the headphone to make the phones comform to the shape of your head. I'm no watermelon head yet my Abyss sounds best with the frames stretched outwards a little bit. Come to think of it, its incredibly clever of JPS to treat a headphone as a ported sub and let users fiddle with the enclosure volume and porting area. Too wide a gap and you end up with lots of loose bass with no extension, too little a gap makes the bass thin and lifeless. Finding the right balance (I wouldn't even call it balance since finding the right fit makes the headphone sound soo much better its literally a free upgrade) can take some time, but in the end its more than worth it.



I noticed you n your signature you run an audio gd Power Amp with the Abyss, what’s the paring like?


----------



## 506638

cj3209 said:


> Totally agree.  I got a used phi cc for around the same price.  Marvelous 'cans.



Just about the upgrade : is there any official announce ? I don't think so. 

So at "until you want to upgrade" should be added "if there is an upgrade".

Don't take for granted rumors.


----------



## lambdastorm (Apr 13, 2019)

deuter said:


> I noticed you n your signature you run an audio gd Power Amp with the Abyss, what’s the paring like?


It's a great match. I used to have the NAD M22 V1 and the P3S comes very close for a fraction of the price. Imaging wise its a little more diffuse than the NAD but it has a wider soundstage and more extended treble. Bass is pretty much on par with the NAD with just a tad less punch.


----------



## deuter

lambdastorm said:


> It's a great match. I used to have the NAD M22 V1 and the P3S comes very close for a fraction of the price. Imaging wise its a little more diffuse than the NAD but it has a wider soundstage and more extended treble. Bass is pretty much on par with the NAD with just a tad less punch.



Nice, Iam using an NFB27H with my Abyss 1266 pair.


----------



## 506638

mulder01 said:


> Pretty good deal for anyone in Australia - AUD$4.5k (USD$3.2k) for a brand new CC ($2.5k off just because it's not a TC)
> https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/coll.../abyss-ab-1266-phi-planar-magnetic-headphones



Don't think it is a brand new CC but a demo unit. And it is AU$2.5K off (USD$1.8K). So that's a pretty good deal for them : they no longer need a demo CC, they've used it and they sell it more than they've paid for it.

I've quite often found that prices in Australia were rather low but they deliver only in Australia.


----------



## deuter

Iam confused about your post


PIANISTE88 said:


> Don't think it is a brand new CC but a demo unit. And it is AU$2.5K off (USD$1.8K). So that's a pretty good deal for them : they no longer need a demo CC, they've used it and they sell it more than they've paid for it.
> 
> I've quite often found that prices in Australia were rather low but they deliver only in Australia.



The price is $4500 AUD.


----------



## deuter

Anyone tried a THX 789 with the Abyss 1266


----------



## mulder01

PIANISTE88 said:


> Don't think it is a brand new CC but a demo unit. And it is AU$2.5K off (USD$1.8K). So that's a pretty good deal for them : they no longer need a demo CC, they've used it and they sell it more than they've paid for it.
> 
> I've quite often found that prices in Australia were rather low but they deliver only in Australia.


Yeah I'd say it will be the demo unit.  Still pretty good...  Or I thought so anyway.  Though I haven't been keeping an eye on used CC prices...
Anyway, just pointing it out for the lurkers.  Carry on...


----------



## deuter

I found this nice cello heavy album in my library, listen to it for mind blowing bass through your Abyss.

Little Wonder by Musica Nuda


----------



## 506638

Thanx.



deuter said:


> Iam confused about your post
> "
> mulder01 said: ↑
> Pretty good deal for anyone in Australia - AUD$4.5k (USD$3.2k) for a brand new CC ($2.5k off just because it's not a TC)
> ...



As there are dollars all over the world, just wanted to point that the "$2.5k off" were AUD not USD. 
1/ They are a professional seller
2/ They bought it brand new for far less the $3.2k
3/ They've used it for their business and resell it for more than they paid for it
4/ That's a pretty good deal for them. Could also be a good deal for the buyer.

If more explanation needed, be welcome to ask : I know my Frenglish has to be improved


----------



## tholt

Thought I'd share a couple more random thoughts on the the 1266 as I continue to explore my recently upgraded Phi version:

Inexpensive ($8), not-too-looking-DIY solution for the problem of headstrap not low enough to place your ears at the optimal position: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YIJGS6E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. Adhesive cushion which fits nicely to the bottom of the leather headband





 

Heavy bass distortion: On some bass-heavy tracks (specifically in this case, "Hey Now" by London Grammar), I'm hearing bass rumble distort the entire rest of the band up to and including female vocals and treble. I do realize there is simple physics involved with trying to move that kind of air with a single driver, just curious if anyone else has experienced bass-induced audible distortion? I only ask because one of the huge features of this headphone is the deep and clean bass, of which I'm a huge fan. On this particular track, however, it doesn't take a lot of goosing on the volume dial to hear it. Wondered others' experience?


----------



## JLoud

It could be too much of a gap between the pads and your ears. While you don't want a tight seal, if there is too much space around the pad and your ear the bass will distort. It happens with my Phi CC's. Try gradually pressing the ear cups against your head. If the distortion goes away as more contact between pads and ears occur, your fit is a little loose. I discovered this while playing around with fit.


----------



## simorag (Apr 15, 2019)

tholt said:


> Thought I'd share a couple more random thoughts on the the 1266 as I continue to explore my recently upgraded Phi version:
> 
> Inexpensive ($8), not-too-looking-DIY solution for the problem of headstrap not low enough to place your ears at the optimal position: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YIJGS6E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. Adhesive cushion which fits nicely to the bottom of the leather headband
> 
> ...



Hey, I am listening to Hey Now in this moment at fairly high volume and I can't hear any distortion.

Just an amazingly deep and clean sub bass presentation, actually.

Have you tried to adjust your pad positioning and orientation?

They should very gently touch your jawbone. If you leave even a small clearance, this may generate boominess.

Just my 2cents, hope this helps.

P.S. I am now using the TC but I cannot remember any distortion on this particular track from when I had the phi with OG or CC pads


----------



## tholt

Thanks @JLoud and @simorag . You're both onto something. I have played around with cup rotation and pressure, definitely makes a difference. I have the cups rotated with a pretty significant gap at the bottom which provides the deepest, rumbling bass, but it might be at the expense of control and bloat. Rotating the cups to lessen this gap provides bass that is not as deep but also not as prone to distortion. I hear it in both drivers so I don't think it's a defect. Perhaps I'll just need to play around more and accept not the most thunderous bass in exchange for cleanliness.


----------



## FLTWS

tholt said:


> Thought I'd share a couple more random thoughts on the the 1266 as I continue to explore my recently upgraded Phi version:
> 
> Inexpensive ($8), not-too-looking-DIY solution for the problem of headstrap not low enough to place your ears at the optimal position: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YIJGS6E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. Adhesive cushion which fits nicely to the bottom of the leather headband
> 
> ...



Great find, put it on my shopping list at Amazon



simorag said:


> ...
> Have you tried to adjust your pad positioning and orientation?
> They should very gently touch your jawbone. If you leave even a small clearance, this may generate boominess. ...



I found that to be the best for bass as well with my Phi, tight, clean, and as powerful as the recording captures it.


----------



## FLTWS

tholt said:


> Thanks @JLoud and @simorag . You're both onto something. I have played around with cup rotation and pressure, definitely makes a difference. I have the cups rotated with a pretty significant gap at the bottom which provides the deepest, rumbling bass, but it might be at the expense of control and bloat. Rotating the cups to lessen this gap provides bass that is not as deep but also not as prone to distortion. I hear it in both drivers so I don't think it's a defect. Perhaps I'll just need to play around more and accept not the most thunderous bass in exchange for cleanliness.



Many of my acquaintances like their bass "more real" than "real", listening for a visceral thrill.


----------



## FLTWS

In related news; just got an e-mail from Cable Co. A TC demo model is on it's way to me as of today. 2 weeks of fun in-coming.


----------



## tholt

FLTWS said:


> Many of my acquaintances like their bass "more real" than "real", listening for a visceral thrill.



Lol. I may have to turn the bass down from 11.


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## tholt

What I'm also finding with rotating cups to allow for a large air gap (more bass) is that the soundstage extends as well. On some recordings, it's almost like hearing it live. Probably not accurate, but a seriously amazing headphone experience!


----------



## Savage4 (Apr 15, 2019)

I just received the demo superconductor hc for my phi cc from the cable company. I have to say I’m really surprised at what I found. I have played with Dana lazuli ultra, some norne audio cables (both dealers are fantastic, highly recommended) and the superconductor cable. All cables are burned in  for at least 200 hours. The difference between the stock cable and superconductor cable is way too subtle. They share similar sound signature except that the superconductor cable bumps up the mid-bass region a little bit (more smooth overall) and has better imaging while the Dana and norne cables just make my phi cc sound like a different model. I’m not commenting on which one is the best as people have different preferences but I have to say now the superconductor cable seems a bit overpriced. I want to take it apart and have a look but sadly I’m not allowed to. It could that the stock cable is highly well-made so it’s difficult to make a big jump on top of it.


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## lambdastorm

What I find interesting with the stock cable is that they provide the best bass slam out of all the cables I've tried, but the conductors are also the thinnest. If you gently unscrew the mini 4 pin XLR connector you can see the conductors inside, and from the looks of it it seems to be around 23 gauge. For a conductor this thin they sure pack a punch.


----------



## mulder01

tholt said:


> Thought I'd share a couple more random thoughts on the the 1266 as I continue to explore my recently upgraded Phi version:
> 
> Inexpensive ($8), not-too-looking-DIY solution for the problem of headstrap not low enough to place your ears at the optimal position: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YIJGS6E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. Adhesive cushion which fits nicely to the bottom of the leather headband
> 
> ...


Looks like (even though it's softer) it would create more of a hotspot on your head as the weight is distributed over an even smaller area than without the padding?

A bit OT, but it's interesting that a decent number of audiophiles seem to listen to that London Grammar album - "strong" got a fair few listens when I had my 1266 - yet it was pretty much made entirely by broke 20-ish year old musicians at home with no fancy equipment.  Kinda ironic - I've seen it used as a demo on systems well into 6 figures... Of course they will claim that you are hearing the music 'just as the artist intended', but in reality, I think they were just happy to have recording equipment that worked at all...


----------



## tunes

fredfung28 said:


> btw I would like to ask if anyone has tried the mysphere and compared with abyss 1266 phi or not? I’m quite interested in the mysphere too


Has anyone compared the Susvara to the Mysphere 3.2 and RAAL-Requisite SR1a in terms of midrange, treble detail retrieval and imaging? I assume the Susvara would have a better low end but in other areas wondering how they compare. It seems that the Mysphere is very efficient and can be driven by DAVE?


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## tholt (Apr 16, 2019)

mulder01 said:


> Looks like (even though it's softer) it would create more of a hotspot on your head as the weight is distributed over an even smaller area than without the padding?



I don't feel a concentrated hot spot using it. It is pretty cushy, which is comfortable. I don't know if it's any more comfortable than without, but it's no less comfortable IMO.



mulder01 said:


> A bit OT, but it's interesting that a decent number of audiophiles seem to listen to that London Grammar album - "strong" got a fair few listens when I had my 1266 - yet it was pretty much made entirely by broke 20-ish year old musicians at home with no fancy equipment.  Kinda ironic - I've seen it used as a demo on systems well into 6 figures... Of course they will claim that you are hearing the music 'just as the artist intended', but in reality, I think they were just happy to have recording equipment that worked at all...



Yeah, it was a few years ago at AXPONA I believe that this song was suddenly everywhere. It's a good tune by a decent band (without that bass part, not sure audiophiles would like it as much?). Didn't know about the production methods, but I will say that if that's true, someone knew what they were doing, because it's recorded very well.


----------



## Godel Von

deuter said:


> Anyone tried a THX 789 with the Abyss 1266


I’m using 1266OG with THX789, I feel it is better than many $2000+ amps. Clear and the bass is controlled very well


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## 506638

lambdastorm said:


> What I find interesting with the stock cable is that they provide the best bass slam out of all the cables I've tried, but the conductors are also the thinnest. If you gently unscrew the mini 4 pin XLR connector you can see the conductors inside, and from the looks of it it seems to be around 23 gauge. For a conductor this thin they sure pack a punch.



I've learnt from a top cable maker that not so long ago, AWG26 was the standard as it is a sweet spot for awg vs sound vs amplification (the thicker the wire awg the more power is needed to push signal).


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## simorag (Apr 21, 2019)

Approaching one month and 200hr with the Abyss TC, I have found that among its numerous strengths, piano reproduction is really outstanding, and this is good news to me as piano (mainly classical) is a big chunk of my listening.

While rendering the whole experience of live listening to piano is NOT yet within reach of any headphone rig (at least, none I have tried), the TC comes close as strong dynamic contrasts are presented very effortlessly and both the left and right ends of the keyboard are glorious, with a very rich yet well controlled bass and luminous, liquid treble.

Attack and decay are quite believable and the resonance and harmonic richness of a grand piano, together with ambience effects from the concert hall are delivered in a very satisfying fashion.

The Superconductor HP cable pairs especially well with this instrument, adding some further body to the mid-bass and smoothness to the midrange / lower treble.




Compared to the Abyss Phi, the resolution of very complex passages is significantly improved to my ears, and harmonies and musical phrasing are more straightforward to follow.

Also, with my previous Phi there were some sporadic ringing issues that are completely disappeared with the TC.

All types of piano music are emotionally involving through them, and today I decided to treat myself with an all-piano program made of exceptional performances from some great artists to whom I will never be grateful enough.


----------



## 506638

simorag said:


> Approaching one month and 200hr with the Abyss TC, I have found that among its numerous strengths, piano reproduction is really outstanding, and this is good news to me as piano (mainly classical) is a big chunk of my listening.
> 
> While rendering the whole experience of live listening to piano is NOT yet within reach of any headphone rig (at least, none I have tried), the TC comes close as strong dynamic contrasts are presented very effortlessly and both the left and right ends of the keyboard are glorious, with a very rich yet well controlled bass and luminous, liquid treble.
> 
> ...



Different hears, different sensations. I think the Abyss TC is one of the best on electronic musics, if not the best, and is in trouble (for TOTL) with acoustic ones, specially the piano. It's a bit dull, and harmonics are almost inaudible above the third one. It is very good, but so far than live listening and even more from playing. That being said, I wasn't in the concert halls when the recordings were made so I can't give my opinion on ambience effets and I can't understand why live listening should sound better than studio ones. More emotional, most of the times, but better sound, don't agree.


----------



## deuter

Nice album collection, I need to get that Keith Jarrett album.


----------



## deuter

Godel Von said:


> I’m using 1266OG with THX789, I feel it is better than many $2000+ amps. Clear and the bass is controlled very well



I use a Audio gd NFB27h and it sounds wonderful, tight bass with extremely black background giving you the illusion of instruments floating in thin air with the centre soundstage extending from floor to roof.


----------



## 506638

deuter said:


> Nice album collection, I need to get that Keith Jarrett album.


Download it in 24/96.  You'll hear a kind of different piano sound. But it's Keith's secret


----------



## krack2222

Hi there,

I might be interested in purchasing the *jps lab 1266 abyss phi.*

The objective is to step up from my Mrspeakers Ether Flow C.
For now, they work very well my Bakoon HPA-21 amplifier; but I want more.

Has anyone tried the bakoon amplifier on current mode with the abyss?
Is there enough juice?

Thanks.


----------



## mulder01

PIANISTE88 said:


> I've learnt from a top cable maker that not so long ago, AWG26 was the standard as it is a sweet spot for awg vs sound vs amplification (the thicker the wire awg the more power is needed to push signal).


The thicker the wire, the lower the resistance
I think thinner cable might be used because headphones usually draw milliwatts and with a current that low, it doesn't really matter if the cable is thin


----------



## 506638

mulder01 said:


> The thicker the wire, the lower the resistance
> I think thinner cable might be used because headphones usually draw milliwatts and with a current that low, it doesn't really matter if the cable is thin



This is why AWG26 was the standard as the sweet post for awg vs sound vs amplification.


----------



## astrostar59

PIANISTE88 said:


> This is why AWG26 was the standard as the sweet post for awg vs sound vs amplification.



That and the need for lighness, flexible and weight. Speaker cables are not that problematic on those 3 points. Though my DIY 12AWG silver bi-wire cables are a challenge if you need to move them around much LOL.


----------



## ufospls2

Has anyone here on the Abyss thread heard the XI Audio Sagra DAC? Looks like an interesting bit of gear, and I'm guessing it matches with Abyss Headphones well. Not sure of course, just curious! Please chime in if you have heard it!


----------



## best56

simorag said:


> Approaching one month and 200hr with the Abyss TC, I have found that among its numerous strengths, piano reproduction is really outstanding, and this is good news to me as piano (mainly classical) is a big chunk of my listening.
> 
> While rendering the whole experience of live listening to piano is NOT yet within reach of any headphone rig (at least, none I have tried), the TC comes close as strong dynamic contrasts are presented very effortlessly and both the left and right ends of the keyboard are glorious, with a very rich yet well controlled bass and luminous, liquid treble.
> 
> ...



Hi Simone, 
I'm Best56, and I also have an Abyss1266 Deluxe, which I pilot with both Driver and S.S. Dual Mono in Class A, which in Valves, with Il Viva 845, Huraca'n 845 and Cypher Labs Prautes. Like Cavi in addition to his JPS, I use a 19 AWG Silver Litz Cable and an Axon Silver Aluminum, both from Invictus Cable, and I would like to know if you've ever tried them on your Set up. I found them excellent, and they both gave more than the JPS. Other Italian users preferred them to the Double Elix and the Superconductor ... If you want we can arrange for a listening with your Set up. I find that the Cavo Litz, expresses itself better with the Valvolari, while the Silver Aluminum Axon, gives something more with the Drivers to S.S. in Full Balance. My current digital sources are Mecc./ Conv. Accuphase, Krell KPS-20i and Omega Rise v.3, in addition to Liquida with Mac and Weiss DAC-202.


----------



## mulder01

So here is what a Prautes looks like on the inside:



 

I wonder which multi-thousand dollar headphone cable will get the most out of it...


----------



## Zhanming057

mulder01 said:


> So here is what a Prautes looks like on the inside:
> 
> I wonder which multi-thousand dollar headphone cable will get the most out of it...



Viva isn't better, and more than twice as expensive...sounds great, though 



Spoiler


----------



## mulder01

Looks a bit better - a lot of point to point tube stuff can look pretty ugly but that $30 meanwell power supply plonked in the middle of the Prautes taking up most of the room just kills it for me.  I remember when I was looking into making a hobby project using stepper motors, those were the power supplies recommended for that use, because they weren't as filtered and a bit more rough/rugged/robust and could better handle the back emf from suddenly starting and stopping motors.  Doesn't strike me as the go-to choice for a high end amplifier.  And you just know all the cable in there is $0.10c/m... Just makes me wonder to what extent a high end headphone cable can redeem it.


----------



## Zhanming057

mulder01 said:


> Looks a bit better - a lot of point to point tube stuff can look pretty ugly but that $30 meanwell power supply plonked in the middle of the Prautes taking up most of the room just kills it for me.  I remember when I was looking into making a hobby project using stepper motors, those were the power supplies recommended for that use, because they weren't as filtered and a bit more rough/rugged/robust and could better handle the back emf from suddenly starting and stopping motors.  Doesn't strike me as the go-to choice for a high end amplifier.  And you just know all the cable in there is $0.10c/m... Just makes me wonder to what extent a high end headphone cable can redeem it.



Just took a closer look. I agree that a $30 SMPS has no place in a $4,000 amp. And those look like off the shelf Mercury output transformers and some questionable capacitor choices.

Not saying that you can't get good sound from poor components, but when competitors are using parts that cost an order of magnitude more, it is hard to believe that they can achieve comparable results. They're far from alone in using low quality internal wiring, though.


----------



## best56

mulder01 said:


> So here is what a Prautes looks like on the inside:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder which multi-thousand dollar headphone cable will get the most out of it...



What you posted is a prototype at the desk, and therefore it is not the definitive version of production ... and then I understand, that you have never listened to this driver, which is "Excellent & very musical" !!! ... For me one of the best drivers ever listened to and with an Aeronautical Layout and Components of the 60s / 70s.


----------



## best56

Zhanming057 said:


> Viva isn't better, and more than twice as expensive...sounds great, though
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Then I have both, and both of them sound great. The Viva although not having the super selected components of the Prautes, has its own sound signature and a wider stage ... but it is normal because of the 845, but I repeat the "Sound" is Beautiful and Captivating with both machines. To speak at these levels, you need to have them at home and be able to listen to them with headphones and sources of the same level ... otherwise we talk about "Nothing"


----------



## best56

mulder01 said:


> Looks a bit better - a lot of point to point tube stuff can look pretty ugly but that $30 meanwell power supply plonked in the middle of the Prautes taking up most of the room just kills it for me.  I remember when I was looking into making a hobby project using stepper motors, those were the power supplies recommended for that use, because they weren't as filtered and a bit more rough/rugged/robust and could better handle the back emf from suddenly starting and stopping motors.  Doesn't strike me as the go-to choice for a high end amplifier.  And you just know all the cable in there is $0.10c/m... Just makes me wonder to what extent a high end headphone cable can redeem it.



You'll also be good as a technician and Dye, but I'm sorry if you've never heard it ... you're talking about "Nothing" ... Listen to it and then we'll talk about it. I am a Mechanical Engineer who has worked for 42 years in Airline Companies, and although I am not an electronic, I tell you that Construction is State of the Art, made to last a lifetime, but I have been listening for 50 years Hi-Fi ... and I tell you that the Prautes and the Viva, they play so Spectacular ... without ifs and buts !!!


----------



## best56

best56 said:


> You'll also be good as a technician and Dye, but I'm sorry if you've never heard it ... you're talking about "Nothing" ... Listen to it and then we'll talk about it. I am a Mechanical Engineer who has worked for 42 years in Airline Companies, and although I am not an electronic, I tell you that Construction is State of the Art, made to last a lifetime, but I have been listening for 50 years Hi-Fi ... and I tell you that the Prautes and the Viva, they play so Spectacular ... without ifs and buts !!!




Gentlemen, I repeat, you have to listen before giving a judgment ... then if the product sounds good, as for the Prautes and the Viva, the price alas does the Market with its offer. I believe it is not credible to open a conversation without ever having had the chance to listen to these and / or other objects. I have 12 Drivers between S.S. and Valvular for Dynamic, Ortho, Piezoelectric and Electrostatic Headphones ... some with screaming components, but the sound is equivalent, a sign that they have been well harmonized,


----------



## best56

Here some of my drivers


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## best56

This is the last Driver built with 845, HURACA' 845 Special Edition, for Dynamic and Ortodynamic Headphones, 15 + 15 Watts, with Separate Power ... and over 50KG of weight ... Stratospheric Sound !!!

Here my first Project with 845...Aventador 845 S.E.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dri...-idea-and-implementation-of-a-project.839709/


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## best56

Here one of my Digital Source...Sigma CDP Rise V.3...Here these are the Set ups, of which I speak when you must evaluate Machines like the Viva Egoist or a Prautes ... everything must be brought to the same level, to give a fair and objective judgment


----------



## mulder01

I never claimed that it didn't sound good.  If you like it, great, but personally, I couldn't part with the money for a Prautes based on principle alone.
And although you have nice gear to show off over your 7 consecutive posts, that neither makes your observations more correct, nor does it change my observation that that amp looks like a college project for a first year electronics student.
Anyway, none of this has anything to do with the Abyss...


----------



## best56

mulder01 said:


> I never claimed that it didn't sound good.  If you like it, great, but personally, I couldn't part with the money for a Prautes based on principle alone.
> And although you have nice gear to show off over your 7 consecutive posts, that neither makes your observations more correct, nor does it change my observation that that amp looks like a college project for a first year electronics student.
> Anyway, none of this has anything to do with the Abyss...



OK, I understand that we are far from our. ideas ... You judge the Prautes, from the purely technical one of its interior, I instead judge it for its construction in general and for what it knows how to give in terms of Musicality and Emotionality with headphones like the Abyss AB 1266 and with the Pioneer Master1 ... sorry if I tried to express my idea about how certain objects should be judged, based on over 50 plays. OK, I close it here, to avoid sterile positions, which would not lead us to any constructive concept ... however it would be nice though that you let me see your personal Driver project, to better understand your technical point of view and the component choices to use ... Thanks!!!


----------



## FLTWS (Apr 27, 2019)

*Notes: My Phi (with CC pads added) vs Phi TC (Cable Company Loaner)       *

*(12 day evaluation 4/16/19 to 4/27/19)*


Wrapped up my 12 days pitting my Phi against the TC. The TC is a little bit better with my music, will I sell and buy? I'll be thinking a while on that.

Notes: My Phi (with CC pads added) vs Phi TC (Cable Company Loaner)  

(12 day evaluation 4/16/19 to 4/27/19)

I purchased my Phi in late November 2017 and added the CC pads early July 2018 at the introductory offer price. I’d venture a guess I’m somewhere around 1200 hours of playing time at this point and I’m currently a head phones only listener (but considering getting back into 2 channel on a small scale after a 15 year hiatus). I have several phones in addition to the Abyss but the 1266 Phi is my go-to phone. The TC is a loaner and I’m not sure how many have had it before me but I suspect not very many and not a lot of hours play time on it, at least compared to my 14 month old Phi.

The equipment I used was a NuPrime CDT-8 transport, feeding a Schiit Yggdrasil 2, which in turn feeds a XI Audio Formula S + Powerman and / or a Rogue Audio RH-5. I used Straight Wire Info Link AES and DH Labs coax to connect from the CDT-8 to the Yggdrasil 2. The two SE outputs on the Yggdrasil connect to both HP amps using 1 meter lengths of JPS Labs Superconductor V RCA terminated IC’s or StraightWire Symphony II’s (for comparison at two different price points). While I own 3 other alternate 1266 HP cables including the SC, I used the stock 4 pin 1266 cables with JPS Labs ¼” adapter’s provided with both phones, which saved me a lot of connecting / disconnecting of the L/R HP connectors . The stock cable doesn’t add any character to the sound the way the others can, I hear it as “truthful”, but not necessarily more listenable depending on one’s sound palette preferences and the variability of recorded source material quality. Note that while the Formula S has both dual 3 pin and single 4 pin outs (along with ¼ inch), it is a single ended, dual mono design, not balanced. The RH-5 has the same arrangement of outputs but the dual 3 pin and 4 pin are true balanced outputs. The RH-5 has balanced and SE inputs and outputs but I only used the SE input and outputs on it. The RH-5 is a hybrid design using 12AU7’s and MOSFETs and the all solid state Formula S uses BJT’s.

From the attached pictures there is no obvious difference between my Phi and the loaner TC that I can see aside from some of the metal trim color. Pulling the CC pads does indicate the drivers are TC’s on the loaner pair. Some pics;

TC is on the left, my Phi on the right may hang a bit lower as I adjusted the metal headband corners a bit for comfort over time, although the TC was very comfortable as it came.
With 16 months of use my “O” rings are a little more relaxed and the CC pads compress a bit more easily on mine, (well broken in I guess).




TC is in the front.



TC is on the Right.









No meaningful differences I can see from any angle and I measured the driver housing widths and they appear identical to me.
But I have no idea what differences exist between the end-plates of the driver housing.

The Rig.




Out of curiosity I weighed the phones using a digital kitchen scale on top of my modified Woo stand so I could hang each phone by its leather headband (and “without” cables connected) for the measurements.

Phi: 626 grams / 22.10 ounces / 1.38 lbs.       TC:  646 grams / 22.80 ounces / 1.425 lbs.

Not much of a difference but for some reason I would have guessed the TC was the lighter of the two, just based on initial subjective feel, but not so, and I don’t see anything obvious that might make the overall balance and distribution of weight when wearing any different other than that the “O” rings on the newer TC are a bit tighter and make support of the TC on my head a little more firmly.

I also want to note that my Phi takes a lesser setting of the volume control(s) to get to same loudness level as the TC. This per the position of the volume control on the Formula S or using the LED readout on my RH-5 when using a sound level meter to match volume levels. (I use a 315Hz test tone with my sound level meter to check this on both amps.) The difference is about 3 to 3.5 db for the same volume level setting. No idea why this should be as the specs seem pretty much the same. (Different magnet structures?)

Using a variety of Classical selections made from 1960 up to the present, and using Chesky Classical and Jazz, to my ears the two phones sound very, very similar. The midranges on both sound close to identical to me. The differences I hear are at the frequency extremes. The bass on my Phi has greater air but the TC is tighter, with the better impact and detail. I also hear a difference in the upper mids / lower highs. On high stings and horns, in certain upper registers and depending on the recording, my Phi can get a little blurred as the music utilizes the full orchestra, becomes more complexly scored, and reaches higher levels of loudness. The TC sounds a bit more incisive. I don’t notice it much with the Jazz, nor with the few Rock CD’s I listened to, but then, I don’t tend to focus my listening the same way with other genres. The larger the scale and more complex the scoring of the Classical works, the more readily I heard differences. Recording quality, as always, plays a big role as well.

At times I get the sense that my Phi has a richer, almost glowing component to the sound but then there’s that lack of cleanness in the higher frequencies.

As for imaging; it’s stable and clearly outlined on both models. As for sound stage characteristics? No notable difference to me.  After 3 years of headphone listening I’m getting back to speakers to reacquaint myself what a sound field is / can be. In my opinion only, the sound staging capabilities of the many HP’s I’ve auditioned over the past 3 years just do not compare well with speakers. It should give me a better perspective on the strengths and weaknesses of both ways of listening to music.

And so ends my 2 week affair with the TC. The overall impression I come away with is the TC, top to bottom, and especially at the upper and lower frequencies has improved clarity with excellent attack and decay characteristics and yet a more relaxed presentation but with no lack of dynamic range contrast. No mean feat and almost a contradiction in terms here, but there it is. My Phi sounds a bit more aggressive and congested at higher dynamic levels with large scale orchestral recordings. These are small but meaningful differences to me. Maybe not to others.

So, where does that leave me?

If I didn’t already own the Phi but was familiar with it (and comfortable with the fitting of it, and it was within my budget,) and had contemplated a Phi buy, I’d be all over the TC in a heartbeat. Personally, as I already own the Phi it’s a much more difficult decision to make especially as I get ready to put together a return to 2 channels with in-room speakers. How much is that extra clarity and smoothness I hear with the TC worth to me? Time will tell. If I could update the drivers, (and apparently it can’t be done on Phi’s), I’d do it. The TC does offer small but meaningful improvements for me as a Classical music oriented listener. As for Jazz and Rock (and other genre listeners), which are not my primary musical listening types, I defer to others on a comparison / recommendation.

But to my way of hearing it, the TC is a worthy successor to the Phi.


Postscript: Got up early this morning for a final session before carting the TC off to Staples for UPS pickup and used my Superconductor HP cable to revisit both HP’s. The SC seems to impart a bit of smoothness and warmth to the sound and emphasize the detail in vocals much to my liking. Otherwise the results were pretty much the same (Phi versus TC). I then replaced the stock JJ 12AU7’s with a pair of NOS Radiotechnique’s (smoother extended top end compared to JJ’s, solid bass and mids) in my RH-5, with similar results. The TC is an improvement over the Phi to my ears. How much is something each individual has to decide for themselves. One might ask; why not use my best sounding tubes from the get go? Because the JJ’s weak spot is that upper mid/lower high area (always a focal point for me with any gear) making it much easier for me to hear the difference between the 2 phones.


----------



## mulder01

@FLTWS Why hide the most relevant comments to the thread behind spoilers!



best56 said:


> OK, I understand that we are far from our. ideas ... You judge the Prautes, from the purely technical one of its interior, I instead judge it for its construction in general and for what it knows how to give in terms of Musicality and Emotionality with headphones like the Abyss AB 1266 and with the Pioneer Master1 ... sorry if I tried to express my idea about how certain objects should be judged, based on over 50 plays. OK, I close it here, to avoid sterile positions, which would not lead us to any constructive concept ... however it would be nice though that you let me see your personal Driver project, to better understand your technical point of view and the component choices to use ... Thanks!!!





Spoiler: More carry-on



ahhh... I know I am contributing to the pollution on this thread.  But... I think there has been some miscommunication.  My project was built using stepper motors - the same motors used in CNC machinery.  (I am an electrician and have interests in other things outside of headphones).  My comment was that these power supplies were recommended to me because they are a more robust construction and can handle a lot of noise, back EMF and whatever else a DIY'er is likely to throw at them.  I was told better, smoother, more refined power supplies were a bad choice for my application and that the one in the Prautes was the go-to because they were cheap, rough and every DIY-type electronics store has them.

I agree that products need to be listened to before commenting on their sound, but I'm not commenting on the sound.  I was just saying that it looks yuck (IMO).  ANYWAY, this is all pointless, you have a wide selection of other amps to choose from, so great.  Agree to disagree.


btw how come I don't see any Abyss in your photos?


----------



## FLTWS

mulder01 said:


> @FLTWS Why hide the most relevant comments to the thread behind spoilers!



Just trying to save space and wasn't sure if I'd hit a wall on number of characters, especially given the number of photos I put in.


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## mulder01

FLTWS said:


> Just trying to save space and wasn't sure if I'd hit a wall on number of characters, especially given the number of photos I put in.


You're right - best to split it up over 7 posts 
In all seriousness I think the limit must be pretty high - there are some massive review posts on this forum.


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## FLTWS (Apr 27, 2019)

I guess I could try and edit out the spoilers and see what happens.
And there you have it!


----------



## best56

mulder01 said:


> @FLTWS Why hide the most relevant comments to the thread behind spoilers!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why doubt that I do not have an Abyss 1266... here you are satisfied...and also you found my Invictus Cables for Abyss and Cypher Prautes and VIVA Drives!!!







 !!!


----------



## matthewhypolite

FLTWS said:


> *Notes: My Phi (with CC pads added) vs Phi TC (Cable Company Loaner)       *
> 
> *(12 day evaluation 4/16/19 to 4/27/19)*
> 
> ...



The way you describe the differences between the phi and the Tc line up almsot exactly to what I've written so far. I've had the TC for a while but got busy with life stuff, only just getting back to listening and comparing it to the CC.

Over the next week I should have a review to put up.


----------



## simorag

Very informative post @FLTWS, thank you for taking the time of putting it together!



FLTWS said:


> The overall impression I come away with is the TC, top to bottom, and especially at the upper and lower frequencies has improved clarity with excellent attack and decay characteristics and yet a more relaxed presentation but with no lack of dynamic range contrast. No mean feat and almost a contradiction in terms here, but there it is. My Phi sounds a bit more aggressive and congested at higher dynamic levels with large scale orchestral recordings.



I parted from my Phi about 1 month ago, so at this time I am the first not trusting my own aural memory, but your description above synthesizes very well my impressions, too.

Orchestral music and classical piano are about 60-70% of my listening, and the capability of the TC to keep the music presentation effortless and clearly articulated even when handling massed orchestral passages, and / or violent dynamics changes is addicting. I can raise the volume at realistic levels or even beyond them and there it seem to be little or no distortion / compression going on.

I also find myself more prone to explore diverse music genres with the TC, apart from my typical favorites (classical and vocal jazz). Its slightly more present bass and smoother upper midrange - lower treble adds that hint of warmth that makes rock, electronica, pop and less-than-ideally recorded tracks more enjoyable to my ears.​


----------



## best56

Complimente to both for the excellent review and impressions found on the differences, between PHI and TC. I have the first Deluxe version that I listen to with my Aftermarket Cables by Invictus Cable ... and for my musical genre which is Jazz, Baroque and Piano, I find it gorgeous and realistic ... but having so many other Electrostatic, Dynamic and Piezoelectric, I have never felt the need to invest in the new Abyss AB1266 models.


----------



## FLTWS

You make perfect sense and like many have said before; "if it was good yesterday it's still good today, right?"


----------



## matthewhypolite (Apr 30, 2019)

*Pulled from my TOTL Comparison Thread:

:: New Headphone Add ::*




Spoiler: Click to show Review



*Introduction*

I've been a long time Abyss owner, from the very first model (OG), to the Phi, Phi+ CC Pads, and now Abyss AB-1266 TC  (Total Consciousness). It's been a wild ride, and though abyss generously offered upgrade paths for all the prior models, this one required a fresh purchase, which wasn’t TOO bad as I sold my previous pair which is still in my possession until august.

Enough of the jibber jabber, how do the sound? And how do they compare to the CC?.

*Sound*

The TC has a slightly different sound signature than the CC. It's still very much Abyss house sound, but a departure from where the CC tuning was. The TC seems more tuned to clarity and detail retrieval, but not harsh by any means. The TC extracts more out of the music, across the entire frequency spectrum, there just seems to be …more.

Going from the OG to the Phi, i felt like there were certain flaws the OG had that the Phi resolved. Going from the Phi to TC feels like an evolution of what the Phi is. TC Brings you closer to the music, without losing its sense of space or body.

I find the CC to be more forgiving than the TC and that's saying a lot because Abyss headphones are not known for being forgiving. The TC trusts all the details at you, so if your gear can't keep up, you won't like what comes out. With clean quality music, they sound absolutely amazing. If you have lesser gear and music, the CC would probably suit your needs better.

TC slams more than CC but the CC appears to have a bit more body, albeit with more distortion.

The TC sounds like you're moved a few rows closer to the artist. Everything seems closer, but still retains the open sound of the abyss. I think this effect is akin to the TC's ability to extract more micro details out of the music. By comparison the CC sounds a bit more veiled. If I were to use a speaker analogy, the CC sounds like you're listening to speakers in a room that hasn’t been treated, so you get the added distortion and reflections off the walls, ceiling and floors. The TC sounds like you're listening to speakers in a well-treated and optimized room. The Phi CC is an exceptional headphone, and without hearing the TC I wouldn't think there was any more that could be improved. But after hearing the TC, clearly there was.

The Phi, Phi CC and TC are all great cans. And I prefer any one of those iterations in a heartbeat over the OG.
The improvements of the TC over the CC would read very similarly to the improvements of the CC over the Phi.

Refinement and Polish is the name of the game here. And Joe has yet again managed to eek more refinement, more polish, more resolution, more detail retrieval, more "was that always there?" out of these cans.

Though the progression from Phi to CC is similar to that of CC to TC, I think the TC is a bigger jump up than the prior upgrade. I'll try to represent it as follows:

*OG *-> Significant Improvements -> *Phi* -> Incremental Refinements -> *CC* -> Significant Refinements -> *TC*

I like the TC more in just about every genre I've tested save Rock and Acoustic. The slightly wider / holographic tuning of the CC lends itself well to these 2 genres. But this is more a matter of personal taste as they both do great, but for me personally I probably would take the CC for those 2.

As you'll see below with my genre comparison, the TC takes the overall win for "best with" the most genres, but beside the 2 I listed above, Trance and Opera I'd give the win to either pair of headphones. I'd take the Phi without hesitation over the OG, and I'd take the Phi with CC pads without hesitation over the stock Phi in any genre. But the CC is so good already, it's still keeping up with the TC.

The TC is very much a step up, it manages to shine a light on certain aspects of the recording and make them more apparent. It excels at letting you know everything that's going on in the track and it sometimes makes the CC feel like they have some distortion and veil. (Not a description I'd use prior to hearing the TC). So the TC has a more "hifi" sound for lack of a better word. It achieves this by still having bottomless powerful impactful bass, excellent mid-range, pristine precise treble, and an overall fun and enjoyable sound.

Though to my ears the CC took 2 genres off of the TC, and tied in 3 others. The TC is the better headphone.

*Comfort*

The headband on the TC fits differently to the CC and I had to make different adjustments to achieve the same fit and comfort. See the difference below, same ear-pad stitching position though. Other than that, comfort is what you'd expect and what's typical of abyss. In my case, mod required 



*Tubes*

Because of the Phi CCs tuning, there are a specific combination of tubes I prefer with them in all genres. RCA Monoplate + WE Rectifier. When rolling the Takatuski with the CC, it sounds too bloated for my taste. But because of the highly resolving nature of the TC, rolling the taks in sound just as magical as the WE. You can have some fun tube rolling with the TC as they sound great with different tubes and you can dial in the sound you want, and each version of that sound is amazing. This tells me that the TC is definitely more transparent, and changes / improvement to your rig will be represented more accurately by the TC than the CC. The TC is going to deliver what's there to be delivered, and if you have a good tube amp and into rolling, the TC hands down over the CC is what I'd recommend.

*Closing:*

I look forward to hearing what the TC delivers once I upgrade my DAC. I feel like there is more these cans can reveal with further improvements and refinement to my setup. I didn’t necessarily feel that way about the CC. The TC abilities has piqued my interest in what's possible with further improvements to my rig. How does it fair against the Susvara? Well the susvara still does its thing like only the susvara can. Susvara still remains unchallenged in the genres I awarded it, despite the improvements to the TC. The Susvara is a very different monster, and after some time with the TC, I see no reason to let go of the Susvara. I need them BOTH!
So I'll be finalizing the sale of the CC, and setting off to new adventures with the TC 

A masterclass in high end headphone technology.

*Next up, SC cable upgrade review. Here's a sneak peak of  a quick listen*

SC cable lifts a veil off of the music. The Spore 4 in comparison sounds recessed, held back, veiled. SC Cable introduces speed, precision, authority and impact. The music just sounds so much clearer, but not harsh. It just gives you more of what's there. It almost makes the abyss sound like it's plugged into a different amp. I was not expecting to hear such an immediate and obvious difference with the SC, but I could hear it straight away.

More detailed thoughts when I get some more time with the SC.

*Build Quality*
The ceramic quoting on the TC is very elegant, soft to the touch, and adds a bit of warmth to the otherwise industrial design of the Abyss.

*Rating Breakdown / Tone Wheel*






*Best At Genre (NEW)



 Ratings Breakdown (All Headphones) (NEW)

*


*Testing Notes / Tracks (NEW)
Version 4.0
*

*
https://redirect.viglink.com/?forma...olite | Head-Fi.org&txt=TestingNotes v1.0.pdfClick here to download Testing Notes PDF

Photos

     *


----------



## best56

Thanks, very good report!!!


----------



## FLTWS

Good effort. The "Best at Genre" chart results are not unexpected by me.


----------



## mulder01

OG Abyss last for rock and metal?
Come onnnnnnn


----------



## tunes

matthewhypolite said:


> *Pulled from my TOTL Comparison Thread:
> 
> :: New Headphone Add ::*
> 
> ...


My understanding is that the Susvara needs a speaker amp with at least 100 wpc to reveal its full potential.  What amp was used for the comparison?


----------



## mulder01

tunes said:


> My understanding is that the Susvara needs a speaker amp with at least 100 wpc to reveal its full potential.  What amp was used for the comparison?


If you think a HEADPHONE needs AT LEAST 100 WATTS OF POWER PER CHANNEL, then you are not understanding


----------



## tunes

mulder01 said:


> If you think a HEADPHONE needs AT LEAST 100 WATTS OF POWER PER CHANNEL, then you are not understanding


“IMO an issue is that people are putting those onto amps that are relatively underpowered. It's like trying to write a review of the Susvara based on how they sound off a WA6SE or JDS atom. To me the fair comparison is finding a single amp that's both an overwhelmingly good headphone amp and has more than 100wpc into 8 ohms. The Simaudio 700i could probably do that, and maybe a Bryston monoblock setup straight from the taps. But you can't directly compare the SR1a's on a $2k speaker amp - where flaws are mostly going to be from the amp and not the cans - to the Susvara on a WA33e.”


----------



## simorag

tunes said:


> But you can't directly compare the SR1a's on a $2k speaker amp - where flaws are mostly going to be from the amp and not the cans - to the Susvara on a WA33e



@tunes, I believe you may have misunderstood the quote that you have reported, and which I partially re-quoted above. The 100wpc requirement was referred to the SR1a headphones, which indeed are a very peculiar headphone design  - based on a rather unique (in the headphones world) RAAL ribbon driver technology - needing very high power to work best. 

The Susvara, while being fairly low efficiency cans, do not _need_ such power, and the 'Susvara on a WA33' combo was actually referred in your quote as a best case scenario for the Susvara. By the way @matthewhypolite has the WA33  hence his comparison with the Abyss has been done within ideal conditions for both cans.


----------



## tunes (May 1, 2019)

simorag said:


> @tunes, I believe you may have misunderstood the quote that you have reported, and which I partially re-quoted above. The 100wpc requirement was referred to the SR1a headphones, which indeed are a very peculiar headphone design  - based on a rather unique (in the headphones world) RAAL ribbon driver technology - needing very high power to work best.
> 
> The Susvara, while being fairly low efficiency cans, do not _need_ such power, and the 'Susvara on a WA33' combo was actually referred in your quote as a best case scenario for the Susvara. By the way @matthewhypolite has the WA33  hence his comparison with the Abyss has been done within ideal conditions for both cans.



Thanks so much for that clarification.   So it looks like the Abyss PHI TC is the best all around HP at a lower cost than the Susvara?


----------



## simorag

tunes said:


> Thanks so much for that clarification.   So it looks like the Abyss PHI TC is the best all around HP at a lower cost than the Susvara?



Unfortunately I had personally never heard the Susvara.

Many lucky guys here have both and consider the two complimentary, each with its strengths and relative weaknesses.

My opinion is that at the very top of today's headphones it comes very much down to taste, musical preferences ...

I let other, more informed people, add their direct experience.


----------



## matthewhypolite

mulder01 said:


> OG Abyss last for rock and metal?
> Come onnnnnnn



Compared to those others, 100% Yes. I'd choose any of the others for metal easily over the Abyss OG. To my ears, they just sound better in that genre. Not saying the Abyss sounds bad, but i'd reach for those first in that particular genre. The OG can get fatiguing when alot is going on, and sometimes has a harsh edge in metal that i dont particularly like. Phi fixed that alot, but i still prefer the Utopia/HEKV2 over it for metal. The Phi CC brought things to the point where i'd choose it over the other 2 for metal. And the susvara is just hands down the most enjoyable and best cans i've heard for metal period. This is all just my opinion though, you're free to yours.



simorag said:


> @tunes, I believe you may have misunderstood the quote that you have reported, and which I partially re-quoted above. The 100wpc requirement was referred to the SR1a headphones, which indeed are a very peculiar headphone design  - based on a rather unique (in the headphones world) RAAL ribbon driver technology - needing very high power to work best.
> 
> The Susvara, while being fairly low efficiency cans, do not _need_ such power, and the 'Susvara on a WA33' combo was actually referred in your quote as a best case scenario for the Susvara. By the way @matthewhypolite has the WA33  hence his comparison with the Abyss has been done within ideal conditions for both cans.



@simorag is correct. thr SR1a is a different monster entirely, and if i were to add it to my lineup, rest assured id accompany it by a worth amp. And as state, i evaluated on WA33 EE with $5000 worth of tubes.



tunes said:


> Thanks so much for that clarification.   So it looks like the Abyss PHI TC is the best all around HP at a lower cost than the Susvara?





simorag said:


> Unfortunately I had personally never heard the Susvara.
> 
> Many lucky guys here have both and consider the two complimentary, each with its strengths and relative weaknesses.
> 
> ...



I agree with @simorag here again. I've tried to represent as honestly as possible my take on the headphones and given ratings scores comparisons etc, to match what i'm hearing. But what is very very very important to any review of a subjective matter imo, is a reference. Knowing what type of sound a reviewer likes, what genres/tracks he's tested with, etc etc etc. Some folks like a very detailed and bass light presentation, others want all the bass lol. (i happen to want both details and bass! ). It's because audio is so highly subjective why i tried to provide as much insight into my testing method as possible. The PDF file i've uploaded with the review has detailed notes in various genres/tracks where i try to describe what i like and dont like about that particular collection of songs on a particular headphone. And though the TC currently has my currently overall best score, the Susvara is very very excellent in it's own right as well. So it all boils down to preference, and what you prefer. For e.g. if you're into metal, then Susvara is the can for you. If you want something that's more comfortable, susvara again.  Into Dance, Classical, Opera, Pop etc, Abyss TC slays. Having said that, you cant go wrong with either of those cans. At this level it really is down to personal preference cause they're all good. I'd say though, that the Susvara, Abyss CC, and Abyss TC are kinda a significant step above the Utopia/HEKV2. and i'd take any of those 3, over the latter 2, in any genre. (As I've try to reflect in my Genre Comparisons).

If you're fortunate enough to own both Sus and TC. then you're set. If not, i hope my impressions help prospective buyers making the right choice for them. And there's also alot of other reviews on here to help guide folks as well, and from my observation, most folks who own both those cans agree with my findings.

Hope i've answered everything and hope that helps


----------



## JLoud

I would like to know where the LCD-4 fits into this comparison. I currently have the LCD-4, the Abyss Phi CC, the Utopia, and HD800S, and Sony Z1R. For Rock and metal I prefer the LCD-4. For electronic I reach for the 1266 Phi CC. For pop and some vocal tracks I prefer the Utopia. Of course it all depends on preference and the rest of your audio chain.
Mac-Yggy A2, Woo WA5 le second generation and upgraded tubes.


----------



## tholt

JLoud said:


> I currently have the LCD-4, the Abyss Phi CC, the Utopia, and HD800S, and Sony Z1R



I've never heard the Z1R but have read plenty. I'm curious about this headphone. How would you say it compares with the Abyss Phi CC? What is your take on its sonic signature?


----------



## VandyMan

JLoud said:


> I would like to know where the LCD-4 fits into this comparison. I currently have the LCD-4, the Abyss Phi CC, the Utopia, and HD800S, and Sony Z1R. For Rock and metal I prefer the LCD-4. For electronic I reach for the 1266 Phi CC. For pop and some vocal tracks I prefer the Utopia. Of course it all depends on preference and the rest of your audio chain.
> Mac-Yggy A2, Woo WA5 le second generation and upgraded tubes.



How is the Abyss from the Woo WA5? Enough power?


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## JLoud

The Z1R is a “fun” headphone. The treble is gentle. By that I mean it doesn’t get peaky or harsh. A little lower in level compared to the bass and midrange. But still nicely detailed. Bass is bumped up. Great headphones for just relaxing. Many of the totl headphones can be a little fatiguing. So not technically equal to the Abyss it is still very enjoyable.


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## JLoud

Probably the best headphone for modern pop. I find many of the albums recorded to hot in the treble. The Z1R is perfect for these.


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## JLoud

The WA5 second generation is wonderful with the Abyss. On high power and low impedance 11 o’clock is Very loud. Gobs of headroom and terrific dynamics. Very quiet as well. I absolutely love it. Pairs well with the other headphones in my signature as well. With the selectable impedance,power, and input settings it can be tailored for a wide variety of phones.


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## jlbrach

tunes said:


> My understanding is that the Susvara needs a speaker amp with at least 100 wpc to reveal its full potential.  What amp was used for the comparison?



i am fortunate enough to own both the phi TC and the susvara....i listen to both with the formula s and they both sound truly wonderful....aint no need for a 100 watt speaker amp and certainly that aint going to be sitting next to my bed...silly


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## tholt

@JLoud thanks for your insights. I've read that many times -- it's a 'fun' headphone. I'll need to seek out a dealer to hear them.


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## mulder01

matthewhypolite said:


> Compared to those others, 100% Yes. I'd choose any of the others for metal easily over the Abyss OG. To my ears, they just sound better in that genre. Not saying the Abyss sounds bad, but i'd reach for those first in that particular genre. The OG can get fatiguing when alot is going on, and sometimes has a harsh edge in metal that i dont particularly like. Phi fixed that alot, but i still prefer the Utopia/HEKV2 over it for metal. The Phi CC brought things to the point where i'd choose it over the other 2 for metal. And the susvara is just hands down the most enjoyable and best cans i've heard for metal period. This is all just my opinion though, you're free to yours.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Out of interest, any plans to purchase a Diana Phi down the track?


----------



## tunes

jlbrach said:


> i am fortunate enough to own both the phi TC and the susvara....i listen to both with the formula s and they both sound truly wonderful....aint no need for a 100 watt speaker amp and certainly that aint going to be sitting next to my bed...silly


Glad you can drive them well with the formula s.  If you had to part with one of the two headphones, which one would it be?   I listen mostly to female pop,  jazz blues vocalists (Eva Cassidy, Catherine Russell, Natalie Cole, Nora Jones, Ella Fitzgerald, Dianna Krall,  Adel, George Benson, etc, no R and B, no heavy metal, some occasional Rock like Stones, Santana, Steely Dan, Marshall Tucker, Tedeschi Trucks, Van Morrison...


----------



## tunes

jlbrach said:


> i am fortunate enough to own both the phi TC and the susvara....i listen to both with the formula s and they both sound truly wonderful....aint no need for a 100 watt speaker amp and certainly that aint going to be sitting next to my bed...silly


Have you heard the Susvara driven by Formula s and powerman compared to a more powerful speaker amp?


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## jlbrach

For me it is kind of like asking have you driven your car 200 miles an hour? It is impossible for me to use a standard speaker amp in my setup to listen to my headphones and I wouldn’t want to. I have heard what are considered the most powerful headphone amps and the formula s measures up to any of them. If a speaker amp suits others more power to them


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## jlbrach

If forced to choose I would very reluctantly part with the susvara but reluctantly


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## tunes

jlbrach said:


> If forced to choose I would very reluctantly part with the susvara but reluctantly



Do you use the stock cable with your Susvara?


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## jlbrach

I use a danacable the stock is awful


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## tunes

jlbrach said:


> I use a danacable the stock is awful


balanced or SE?


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## jlbrach

I have a balanced cable but use it single ended on the formula s


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## tunes

jlbrach said:


> I have a balanced cable but use it single ended on the formula s


Do you need an adapter to go balanced to SE on the formula?


----------



## jlbrach

No although it is single ended it has balanced connections


----------



## tunes

jlbrach said:


> No although it is single ended it has balanced connections


You mean the amp is not balanced but has a input for balanced cables to go single ??  Is that a disadvantage as some say balanced gives better SQ?


----------



## FLTWS

tunes said:


> You mean the amp is not balanced but has a input for balanced cables to go single ??  Is that a disadvantage as some say balanced gives better SQ?



Yes, for convenience, you don't have to buy an adapter. The dual 3 pins are SE as well. Whether an amp is balanced or SE I dislike 1/4' connectors, I prefer XLR's over RCA or 1/4 " any day. May not make any difference in sound but I just prefer XLR.


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## mulder01 (May 2, 2019)

tunes said:


> You mean the amp is not balanced but has a input for balanced cables to go single ??  Is that a disadvantage as some say balanced gives better SQ?


The old 'balanced is better' myth.  Speak to anyone outside the usual head-fi forums and they will wonder what you're talking about.  That theory has been spread around head-fi for a long time (with the exception of the sound science forums), but a lot of high high end headphone amps are single ended, but many have balanced plugs for convenience.  Did I hear that even the mighty WA234 monoblocks are single ended?  Speaker amps aren't balanced...

*edit* I should clarify - in some situations balanced could be better - if you were using a low powered or portable amp that was balanced, it will have single ended and balanced outputs.  The balanced output power will be higher, and if you are using power hungry headphones, you won't get the best sound of them because you'll run out of headroom not taking advantage of all the power available.  Something like the sony walkman with 3.5mm single ended and 4.4mm balanced would probably drive a lot of high end headphones better through the balanced jack, due to more power being available.  But if you are looking at a desktop headphone amp that puts 5w into 50 ohms, doesn't matter if it's single ended or balanced, 5w is 5w.  But if it's a balanced headphone amp and it states 5w into 50 ohms balanced, it won't put the same amount of power into a single ended connection. 

So by that logic you could argue that a single ended design was better because you could get your full 5w through your single ended OR balanced plugs (where the manufacturer has put in balanced outputs for convenience)


----------



## FLTWS

I don't hear true balanced as sounding much if any different and I have plenty of both available. I think where the difference may come in is how the SE is done. If the design focus was on the balanced circuit and the SE was an afterthought or not executed with the same degree of intent or care for it to sound good, it may not sound as good, but it still should be fine. That's where your ears have to make the decision for you. My best sounding tube HP amp is SE only. If your trying to drive the signal down 50 feet of cable (which might not be unusual in a pro recording environment) balanced does make a difference I've been told. Most have their sources, DACs, and amps within a meter or so of each other on shelves. or stands, balanced connections may not matter at all. And I've also been told that AES digital connections from sources to DAC inputs are not balanced even thought it will use a single (most usually) 3 pin XLR.  It's not about the connector type, it's about how its wired for the circuit its going to be used with and the application.


----------



## Zhanming057

FLTWS said:


> I don't hear true balanced as sounding much if any different and I have plenty of both available. I think where the difference may come in is how the SE is done. If the design focus was on the balanced circuit and the SE was an afterthought or not executed with the same degree of intent or care for it to sound good, it may not sound as good, but it still should be fine. That's where your ears have to make the decision for you. My best sounding tube HP amp is SE only. If your trying to drive the signal down 50 feet of cable (which might not be unusual in a pro recording environment) balanced does make a difference I've been told. Most have their sources, DACs, and amps within a meter or so of each other on shelves. or stands, balanced connections may not matter at all. And I've also been told that AES digital connections from sources to DAC inputs are not balanced even thought it will use a single (most usually) 3 pin XLR.  It's not about the connector type, it's about how its wired for the circuit its going to be used with and the application.



AES is just AES. It's neither balanced nor single ended. 

Some amps are fully balanced and they will usually only do 50% power in SE mode. Some amps may have a balanced output but have the same gain over the two ports.

Speaker amps that are in a true monoblock config running from a balanced DAC are "balanced" by headphone definitions - but it gets murky from there on. It's not something I care about when choosing DACs or amps, much more of a personal preference issue than anything related to technical performance.


----------



## Zhanming057

VandyMan said:


> How is the Abyss from the Woo WA5? Enough power?



I had the WA5 for a while and used it with the Abyss, Utopia and a couple other cans. It's a great amp and lots of fun for tube rolling. Definitely enough power, the amp is rated at 8wpc at 120 ohms which is stronger than many solid state speaker amps at that load. 

If you can find the Manley 300b and run it on speaker taps, though, that is a better amp than the Woo. And the Cayin HA300 is more technically well-rounded. If I were going for a 300b amp again and had no desire to tube roll, I'd probably choose the HA300 or the Airtight 300b with an Airtight preamp.


----------



## MacedonianHero (May 2, 2019)

Well, my Phi TC headphones arrived today! Can't wait until I can get home and start on my review. Should be fun! Thanks to Joe and team for getting them out so quickly (shipped yesterday and arrived today).


----------



## JLoud

I listened to the Manley at a head-fi meet and thought it was just OK. Maybe not the best conditions, although I did use my own headphones and source. Haven't heard the Cyan. Really think at this level you need to demo if at all possible. Or get multiple opinions from people who have similar tastes.


----------



## lambdastorm

I had the Manley for 10 days as a loaner. Really good sound but not something I'd personally recommend. For most dynamic headphones it has way too much gain, my HD600s are borderline unuseable even at low gain, and the hiss is unbearable even for high impedance cans. You'd think it would make a great match for low-sens planars but it doesn't. I have to turn it way up before I can get adequate volume on HE6/Abyss, and it sounds like the amp is straining. Seems to me most loaners are too polite to point this issue out.


----------



## Articnoise

The main advantage of the balanced circuit is its ability to reject noise. A true balanced amplifyer is a so called differential amplifier that amplifies the difference between the two input voltages, but not the voltage common to both inputs. By messuring the difference in voltage between the two signals the amp can easy filter out the noise from the audio signal.


----------



## matthewhypolite

mulder01 said:


> Out of interest, any plans to purchase a Diana Phi down the track?



No.


----------



## mulder01

Articnoise said:


> The main advantage of the balanced circuit is its ability to reject noise. A true balanced amplifyer is a so called differential amplifier that amplifies the difference between the two input voltages, but not the voltage common to both inputs. By messuring the difference in voltage between the two signals the amp can easy filter out the noise from the audio signal.


I think he is talking about balanced output / 4 internal amplifiers.  Balanced input is what rejects your electrical noise, and many amps have that, even though they only have single ended headphone output.


----------



## kelvinwsy

tholt said:


> Looks like another alternative would be using a conversion/adapter like the Hifiman HE-Adapter? This would probably ensure peace of mind but hopefully not adversely affect SQ.


It is a late reply but just wanted to share.. I use this Hifiman Resistor box with my Audionote Quest Silver 300b minoblocs.. with my HD800 and HE 560... Sounds wonderful .. As my Quests are the High Gain Model , there was a slight background hiss.. A 25watt 10 ohm resistor in series with the +ve signal line solved it. I use a 1% Vishay wirewound resistor
The Abyss ab-1266 Phi CC just joined my Hp collection.. Wow it is a killer TOTL Hp..Sounds so damn good vs my Modded HD800 and the He560
8 watts thru the adapted Hifiman Resistor box gives 11 on my SMSL VMVD1 Dac Variable volume 15-17 for the He560 and 20 for the Ab 1266
This us not meant to be a review but in case anyone is wondering can a tube amp drive the abyss well .. YES!
I was a fsnnof the HD800 headstage until I heard the abyss. Slightly less amphitheatre like the HD800 but pinpoint location and more solidity to all vocals, instruments and sounds. Better?
No different
Next adventure is to try a solid state amp .. looking at the Goldenwave GA-X


----------



## kelvinwsy

kelvinwsy said:


> It is a late reply but just wanted to share.. I use this Hifiman Resistor box with my Audionote Quest Silver 300b minoblocs.. with my HD800 and HE 560... Sounds wonderful .. As my Quests are the High Gain Model , there was a slight background hiss.. A 25watt 10 ohm resistor in series with the +ve signal line solved it. I use a 1% Vishay wirewound resistor
> The Abyss ab-1266 Phi CC just joined my Hp collection.. Wow it is a killer TOTL Hp..Sounds so damn good vs my Modded HD800 and the He560
> 8 watts thru the adapted Hifiman Resistor box gives 11 on my SMSL VMVD1 Dac Variable volume 15-17 for the He560 and 20 for the Ab 1266
> This us not meant to be a review but in case anyone is wondering can a tube amp drive the abyss well .. YES!
> ...


----------



## MacedonianHero

After a few nights with the TC, I am really getting to know these headphones. The quickness has been kicked up to a level that I would safely say is very much "stat-like" and among the best I've heard. The speaker-like presentation is thankfully still there, as is the world-class bass. These new drivers are very nimble and pull out even more micro-details from the recording than the originals or Phi-CC versions. So far I am very impressed with what I am hearing thus far!


----------



## Articnoise

mulder01 said:


> I think he is talking about balanced output / 4 internal amplifiers.  Balanced input is what rejects your electrical noise, and many amps have that, even though they only have single ended headphone output.



Are you saying that you know some balanced amplifier that has only single ended headphone outputs?


----------



## mulder01

Well I am a former Violectric v281 owner (balanced in, balanced out) and I know the next model down - v220 is balanced in, single ended out.  Pretty sure it was a wa234 owner that told me despite the 3 pin xlr outputs on the front, it was actually single ended signal - just balanced plugs.  Correct me if I'm wrong.
TBH, I've never bothered to take notice/ keep records of such things, but if I cared to look, I'm sure I'd find a bunch more among the plethora of headphone amps available today.
As you said, balanced input circuitry sorts out the signal from the noise.  Which is separate to the amp section.  Once the noise is removed from the signal, it can be amplified with one amp per channel.  It may not be as common because people buying gear with balanced inputs are probably going to believe that it should be balanced all the way through, but it doesn't have to be the case.


----------



## Articnoise

mulder01 said:


> Well I am a former Violectric v281 owner (balanced in, balanced out) and I know the next model down - v220 is balanced in, single ended out.  Pretty sure it was a wa234 owner that told me despite the 3 pin xlr outputs on the front, it was actually single ended signal - just balanced plugs.  Correct me if I'm wrong.
> TBH, I've never bothered to take notice/ keep records of such things, but if I cared to look, I'm sure I'd find a bunch more among the plethora of headphone amps available today.
> As you said, balanced input circuitry sorts out the signal from the noise.  Which is separate to the amp section.  Once the noise is removed from the signal, it can be amplified with one amp per channel.  It may not be as common because people buying gear with balanced inputs are probably going to believe that it should be balanced all the way through, but it doesn't have to be the case.



I have never seen a balanced amplifier that has only single ended headphone output. To be clear – it’s NOT the input and outputs that makes an amplifier balanced or not. Many amplifiers that are single ended have XLR connectors for headphones, because the advantage of XLR over RCA connector. It doesn’t mean that the amplifier is also operating balanced.

You can OTOH have a true balanced amp and summing the balanced output to single ended and get most of the pros of the balanced circuit’s noise rejection.


----------



## mulder01

Yep, you can get all sorts of arrangements.  The phrase 'true balanced' is a bit of a load IMO as everyone has their opinion on exactly what that means, and what's 'best'.  
I guess my point was that some amps are single ended in and out, some are balanced in and out, some have balanced in single ended out, some look like they have balanced out but it's only a single ended signal, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter - judge an amp on it's sound and don't believe the whole 'balanced is better' myth.  Another member on here was using the flagship headphone amp from Goldmund at I think $10k+ and it's single ended in and out.  If Goldmund thought it was worthwhile to include a balanced option for their TOTL flagship, they would have done it.  Everyone has their own ideas.


----------



## Articnoise (May 5, 2019)

mulder01 said:


> Yep, you can get all sorts of arrangements.  The phrase 'true balanced' is a bit of a load IMO as everyone has their opinion on exactly what that means, and what's 'best'.
> I guess my point was that some amps are single ended in and out, some are balanced in and out, some have balanced in single ended out, some look like they have balanced out but it's only a single ended signal, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter - judge an amp on it's sound and don't believe the whole 'balanced is better' myth.  Another member on here was using the flagship headphone amp from Goldmund at I think $10k+ and it's single ended in and out.  If Goldmund thought it was worthwhile to include a balanced option for their TOTL flagship, they would have done it.  Everyone has their own ideas.



I don’t know if everyone have their own opinion about that balanced is. Some people here does appear to look at an amp and if it has XLR inputs or outputs they can say, my amp is balanced. But no a balanced amplifier is an amp that is operating in balanced.  A true balanced amp is designed exclusively with a differential balanced signal path from input to output. The balanced operating is done by amplifying the difference between the two input voltages, but not the voltage common to both inputs.

I have never said that a balanced amp is better than any other amp, never. I have merely explained the real advantage of, and what’s make an amplifier balanced. It’s an electrical circuit design that is not only used in audio gear. The advantage of true balanced operation is real and just because we can find many expansive unbalanced amps doesn’t mean anything as long as we can find equally good sounded balanced TOTL amps.

Less than a month ago I bought a new amp that is not balanced. Would I have bought it if I believed in what you call the “balanced is better myth”. All amp designs have their pros and cons, no matter if its class A or class A/B or class D, or if it’s SE or balanced, if it’s solid state or tube etc etc.


----------



## Focux

kelvinwsy said:


>



wah this one from lazada or qo10 one is it


----------



## kelvinwsy

aliexpress​


----------



## Zhanming057

Articnoise said:


> I don’t know if everyone have their own opinion about that balanced is. Some people here does appear to look at an amp and if it has XLR inputs or outputs they can say, my amp is balanced. But no a balanced amplifier is an amp that is operating in balanced.  A true balanced amp is designed exclusively with a differential balanced signal path from input to output. The balanced operating is done by amplifying the difference between the two input voltages, but not the voltage common to both inputs.
> 
> I have never said that a balanced amp is better than any other amp, never. I have merely explained the real advantage of, and what’s make an amplifier balanced. It’s an electrical circuit design that is not only used in audio gear. The advantage of true balanced operation is real and just because we can find many expansive unbalanced amps doesn’t mean anything as long as we can find equally good sounded balanced TOTL amps.
> 
> Less than a month ago I bought a new amp that is not balanced. Would I have bought it if I believed in what you call the “balanced is better myth”. All amp designs have their pros and cons, no matter if its class A or class A/B or class D, or if it’s SE or balanced, if it’s solid state or tube etc etc.



It's more nuanced than that, though. Balanced designed cancel out noise but inside the same chassis, you're running two sets of components and each set of components is necessarily smaller and cheaper, for a given price point, than a purely SE design where only one pair of components is ever required. So you could solve the issue by running a fully balanced circuitry or solve the issue by simply using more expensive components, and spending more money on the power supply and isolation, and you could conceivably achieve the same result. 

Balanced amps aren't inherently better at controlling noise, but if you take the same amp and double up on the circuitry, it will be a better amp - and that's basically why bridged mode exists. I do think that in recent years the feature has become quite gimmicky especially among cheaper desktop amps and portable devices, and lots of companies are peddling the "balanced is better" idea because doubling up on cheap circuitry is probably cost-saving over using the good stuff.


----------



## mulder01

Articnoise said:


> I don’t know if everyone have their own opinion about that balanced is. Some people here does appear to look at an amp and if it has XLR inputs or outputs they can say, my amp is balanced. But no a balanced amplifier is an amp that is operating in balanced.  A true balanced amp is designed exclusively with a differential balanced signal path from input to output. The balanced operating is done by amplifying the difference between the two input voltages, but not the voltage common to both inputs.


Not talking about people arguing about what balanced is, but the term 'true balanced'.  I think years ago it was the Schiit fans saying that the Violectric balanced amps were not 'true balanced' because they took the incoming signal, removed the noise, sent the clean signal and a phase inverted copy if the clean signal to the amps to amplify.  From memory I believe Schiit's approach was to just take the signal and inverted signal coming in, amplify them as they were, then the output from each amp would end up pushing the driver back and forward in a way that meant the noise was removed after amplification.  Something like that anyway.  And that somehow got coined as being "True balanced" rather than Vio's traditional way of cleaning the signal upon input and working with it after that.  That's what I meant by people having different ideas about what 'true balanced' means and what methods of amplification are 'best'.



Articnoise said:


> I have never said that a balanced amp is better than any other amp, never. I have merely explained the real advantage of, and what’s make an amplifier balanced. It’s an electrical circuit design that is not only used in audio gear. The advantage of true balanced operation is real and just because we can find many expansive unbalanced amps doesn’t mean anything as long as we can find equally good sounded balanced TOTL amps.
> 
> Less than a month ago I bought a new amp that is not balanced. Would I have bought it if I believed in what you call the “balanced is better myth”. All amp designs have their pros and cons, no matter if its class A or class A/B or class D, or if it’s SE or balanced, if it’s solid state or tube etc etc.


Yeah I agree, I was replying to the member that was asking a few pages ago if you were missing out with the formula S because it wasn't balanced or true balanced or whatever, because that was the word going round.  I was simply trying to say that it doesn't really matter as long as the amplifier has sufficient specs for the headphone.  Some portables are low power output and balanced gives them that extra, as well as headroom, and in that case, balanced was better, but apart from that, it makes f- all difference.  Looks like you came into the conversation late and thought I was arguing with you?


----------



## MacedonianHero

^ Can we please stick on topic here????


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Fidelio at Musicalhead.de Germany proclaimed the AB-1266 Phi TC the best sounding headphone in the world!
AB-1266 Phi TC by Musicalhead.de (English version)
AB-1266 Phi TC by Musicalhead.de (German)


----------



## simorag (May 6, 2019)

I am very much in agreement to what Fidelio has written, when it comes to how the TC improves over the previous generation Phi CC.

Yesterday I indulged myself with a very long listening session, where basically all I was playing from my library was rendered beautifully among a very diverse range of genres. The TC is a great all rounder!






^ This almost brought tears to my eyes. Starker's take on the Bach suites is legendary and this 1965 recording is a gem.
The TC brings out every nuance, resonance and bow tricks details from Janos in an obvious, while naturalistic, way. The presence effect is spooky, where the cello is palpable and this phenomenal cellist seems to be sitting in your room playing for you.

Emotional stuff


----------



## Pastwa

Joe Skubinski said:


> Fidelio at Musicalhead.de Germany proclaimed the AB-1266 Phi TC the best sounding headphone in the world!



According to the review, 'there is no clear winner' when comparing the new Abyss to HFM Susvara, and both headphones seem to be on par. The reviewer's wife, however, still prefers Susvara ;'))


----------



## JLoud

Any updates on upgrades to TC? I know it was stated no upgrades were possible, but I thought I saw somewhere on this thread that the Phi CC may be able to be upgraded. Something to do with chassis difference. I have a Phi CC that is about 2 months old.


----------



## Joe Skubinski (May 6, 2019)

Only the CC can be upgraded to TC.
Send us an email with your serial number and we'll get you on the list, info@abyss-headphones.com


----------



## Joe Skubinski

https://musicalhead.de/bestenliste-kopfhoerer/



Pastwa said:


> According to the review, 'there is no clear winner' when comparing the new Abyss to HFM Susvara, and both headphones seem to be on par. The reviewer's wife, however, still prefers Susvara ;'))


----------



## jlbrach

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I wish I could help you. But I’ve never heard any headphones by Abyss. I feel like all of their headphones are way overpriced and have serious comfort issues. The Diana was just a failure with those small earpads and awkward headband.





Joe Skubinski said:


> Fidelio at Musicalhead.de Germany proclaimed the AB-1266 Phi TC the best sounding headphone in the world!
> AB-1266 Phi TC by Musicalhead.de (English version)
> AB-1266 Phi TC by Musicalhead.de (German)



As one who is stingy with praise I have to agree with the reviewer....the Phi TC and the susvara are 1a and 1b......the TC to me is the only HP I have ever heard that doesnt have me wanting to hear the same music on a loudspeaker system....the soundstage is huge without sacrificing detail and placement....the bass so meaty without overwhelming the music....makes me look forward to sitting down alone with a glass of bourbon and listening to music i never realized was as good or as bad!


----------



## ufospls2

jlbrach said:


> As one who is stingy with praise I have to agree with the reviewer....the Phi TC and the susvara are 1a and 1b......the TC to me is the only HP I have ever heard that doesnt have me wanting to hear the same music on a loudspeaker system....the soundstage is huge without sacrificing detail and placement....the bass so meaty without overwhelming the music....makes me look forward to sitting down alone with a glass of bourbon and listening to music i never realized was as good or as bad!



@Hifiearspeakers Sorry mate but that quote jlbrach included is bordering on being rubbish. 

You say you haven't heard any headphones by Abyss, but then you say they have serious comfort issues? Did you try a pair of Diana on and not listen at all? Thats a bit strange?

Diana has her uses, and the small package is part of her appeal. Here is my original thoughts on Diana, from the first time I tried her out.

https://headphonesnstuff.blog/2019/03/02/abyss-headphones-diana-the-original-the-short-ones/

The small ear pads worked for my ears, but I can see someone with larger ears having a bit trouble, you are right about that. The fit will be very personal, but I own the Diana Phi (which as you know does have larger earpads) and she is very comfortable indeed. I look forward to listening to her every day 

There is no disrespect intended with this post by the way, I enjoy reading your posts, I just feel this particular one is a bit unfair


----------



## jlbrach

what exactly did i say that borders on rubbish?????


----------



## ufospls2

jlbrach said:


> what exactly did i say that borders on rubbish?????



Nothing. I was replying to the quote from @Hifiearspeakers that you included in your post.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers (May 6, 2019)

ufospls2 said:


> @Hifiearspeakers Sorry mate but that quote jlbrach included is bordering on being rubbish.
> 
> You say you haven't heard any headphones by Abyss, but then you say they have serious comfort issues? Did you try a pair of Diana on and not listen at all? Thats a bit strange?
> 
> ...



I’ve read a lot of posts on here where many people complain about the Diana being uncomfortable and not fitting their heads very well. I’m just going by what others have said, and the comfort issues come up a lot.

I feel like the Diana should have been the Diana Phi from the start. The larger earpads will accommodate a lot more people with varying head sizes and ear sizes. 

I feel the same way about the Ether 2 (as a former owner). Dan should have made larger earpads from the start. Clearly there’s a comfort problem since he’s now offering other earpad options. I just feel like when you start getting into the $2000 price range and above, comfort shouldn’t be an after thought.


----------



## Joe Skubinski (May 7, 2019)

And that's the crux of the issue. It's regurgitating old outdated info, we call it tribal.

Since there is no other headphone like this in the world there was no template to follow. Diana began with prototypes that we let people try at shows to help us learn about fit with all nationalities. The goal was to get as close as possible to the ideal design whereby she would fit a majority of people comfortably. Unfortunately even though we religiously told people these were prototypes there were some in the press who would for whatever reason ignore this and report as if it were a finished design. Bottom line, they wanted to badmouth ABYSS.

The Diana and Diana Phi of today are a dramatically different fit than early impressions would give. The headband and ear pad designs have evolved through multiple generations. Next month Diana Phi ear pads will become the norm for all Diana models, and we're showing these at AXPONA and this weeks High End show in Munich, Germany.

Bottom line, if you have not recently gave this or any other headphone a try, there's no way you can be accurate in your comments.


----------



## Zhanming057

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I’ve read a lot of posts on here where many people complain about the Diana being uncomfortable and not fitting their heads very well. I’m just going by what others have said, and the comfort issues come up a lot.
> 
> I feel like the Diana should have been the Diana Phi from the start. The larger earpads will accommodate a lot more people with varying head sizes and ear sizes.
> 
> I feel the same way about the Ether 2 (as a former owner). Dan should have made larger earpads from the start. Clearly there’s a comfort problem since he’s now offering other earpad options. I just feel like when you start getting into the $2000 price range and above, comfort shouldn’t be an after thought.



I tried two early-production version of the Diana (headphone annex, the other pair was in Beijing) and both were fairly tight on my head. The Diana Phi is wider with much better support. I'm glad to hear that the Diana's will now come with the bigger earpads, and presumably new production models of the Diana will also come with wider headbands.

The problem is that people's heads vary a lot in size and shape. Just to give an extreme example, a friend of mine feels that the Abyss Phi's are cramped, even if the frame is at max width. He prefers the HD800s because of the more elastic frame. On the other hand, the HD800S's earcups are too big for my head, and I found the seal very difficult to achieve.  

Anything that's supposed to form-fit is difficult to design. The Diana Phi is seriously light and that's definitely a plus. I won't say it's the most comfortable TOTL can I've ever worn, but it's in the top 3-4 best ones.


----------



## protoss

The original diana or we want to call them prototypes? Was not comfortable at all.  Its was pretty bad. The new Diana earpads are better but nowhere close to top 3-4 best of all time. Maybe top 10 to 20 area.



Joe Skubinski said:


> Fidelio at Musicalhead.de Germany proclaimed the AB-1266 Phi TC the best sounding headphone in the world



Yikes another company quoting others as saying their headphone is the greatest of all time.
First raal quoted "better than HE-1" and now abyss "best in the world"

Soon hifiman will quote "we are gods".


----------



## JLoud

Comfort and opinions on sound are based on personal preferences. So calling something the most comfortable or best sounding should be taken in context to the reviewers preference. As should someone saying something isn't comfortable or that the sound "sucks." But without reviews and personal opinions many of us would have nothing to go on.


----------



## MacedonianHero (May 7, 2019)

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I’ve read a lot of posts on here where many people complain about the Diana being uncomfortable and not fitting their heads very well. I’m just going by what others have said, and the comfort issues come up a lot.
> 
> I feel like the Diana should have been the Diana Phi from the start. The larger earpads will accommodate a lot more people with varying head sizes and ear sizes.
> 
> I feel the same way about the Ether 2 (as a former owner). Dan should have made larger earpads from the start. Clearly there’s a comfort problem since he’s now offering other earpad options. I just feel like when you start getting into the $2000 price range and above, comfort shouldn’t be an after thought.



Personally I've always found the Diana quite comfortable and light on my larger sized head and glasses.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

I own the Abyss Phi with CC pads as well as the Diana Phi.  I wanted to love the original Diana but I did find it a bit uncomfortable, especially when wearing eyeglasses.  The earpads were a tad too small for me and cut across the tops of my ears.  Of course, YMMV.  

That said, I love the new Diana Phi earpad design. They are more contoured than the bigger CC pads, which have a 'fat' donut side and a narrower side.  By comparison, the Diana Phi pads follow the shape of your ears and head a bit more, so you get a more close-fitting closed feeling.  Or you can shift them using the magnetic pins on the headphone to create a small gap between the pads and your ears which enhances the bass impact a bit.  Its very siimilar to the effect you get if you shift around the CC pads on the1266 to create an opening, which almost acts as a bass-port.


----------



## elan120

Anyone have tried pairing Headamp GS-X mk2 with Abyss Phi TC?  Wonder if this amp can pair well and if not, what other choices are recommended?


----------



## isquirrel

I have been reading everyone's post with interest, its good to be back on Head-Fi.

Just received news that a par of TC's is heading my way in a couple of weeks. I have the Susvara, Utopia etc but feel that my current Phi CC is the ultimate Headphone for me. I have been using them out of my WA33 Elite, however a coupe of weeks ago I swapped the WA33 out for the latest edition of the 234's (which are single ended) running Takatsuki 300B's and 274B's and preferred the 234's for their dynamic slam, resolution and ability to use different types of tubes. I am using the DHC Prion4S balanced with the Abyss.

I realised after going through all my Headphones that I have the complete collection of all the editions of the Abyss. Cannot wait for the TC's.


----------



## jlbrach

elan120 said:


> Anyone have tried pairing Headamp GS-X mk2 with Abyss Phi TC?  Wonder if this amp can pair well and if not, what other choices are recommended?



the formula S was designed for the 1266 and does a great job with them as well as with the sisvara


----------



## x RELIC x

jlbrach said:


> *sisvara*



Is that the Susvara’s sister?


----------



## The Piper

elan120 said:


> Anyone have tried pairing Headamp GS-X mk2 with Abyss Phi TC?  Wonder if this amp can pair well and if not, what other choices are recommended?


Wells enigma and Headtrip.


----------



## jlbrach

sorry bout my spelling!...sometimes i forget to check what i have typed!


----------



## elan120

jlbrach said:


> the formula S was designed for the 1266 and does a great job with them as well as with the sisvara



Thank you.  I am looking at this amp as one of the top choice for the same reason you have listed.  What is the interconnect cable you are using?


----------



## ufospls2

Please take my impressions with a grain of salt, as they are _my_ preferences, and you might be different. Best to listen to them, if possible.

I can't speak about the Formula S as I haven't heard it yet sadly, but if Joe @ JPS recommends it as the ideal pairing, I really trust his judgement.

What I remember about the GSX-MK2 is that it is pretty neutral bordering on dry and bright, but very detailed and airy.
I wouldn't recommend it for the AB-1266 Phi TC unless that is the specific sound signature you are looking for. 
I prefer an amp that is a bit different than that, so its not for me _personally. _ Best to get your
ears on it if possible. 

The Wells Amps pair _*wonderfully*_ with Abyss headphones. I just had the Milo in for review last month, and it was epic with the Diana Phi. Very musical amps, that
pair well with the Abyss headphones house sound. Highly recommended. 

Also, I just purchased a Kinki Studio EX-M1 speaker amp, that if you are on a budget that is lower than the GSX-MK2 and Wells Audio amps, also plays wonderfully
with the Diana Phi. Superb bass, with sweet treble. Great pairing. 

Hope that helps


----------



## elan120

The Piper said:


> Wells enigma and Headtrip.



Thank you for the suggestions.  I have not look into these amps yet, but seems to be very well build with good praises products.


----------



## elan120

ufospls2 said:


> Please take my impressions with a grain of salt, as they are _my_ preferences, and you might be different. Best to listen to them, if possible.
> 
> I can't speak about the Formula S as I haven't heard it yet sadly, but if Joe @ JPS recommends it as the ideal pairing, I really trust his judgement.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the good helpful information.  Another vote for the Wells amps.  I will need to check them out more especially the differences between their Enigma and Headtrip.


----------



## ufospls2

elan120 said:


> Thank you for the good helpful information.  Another vote for the Wells amps.  I will need to check them out more especially the differences between their Enigma and Headtrip.



Shoot Jeff wells an email www.wellsaudio.com

The "2" versions of the amps are slowly making their way to market, and look fantastic!


----------



## elan120

ufospls2 said:


> Shoot Jeff wells an email www.wellsaudio.com
> 
> The "2" versions of the amps are slowly making their way to market, and look fantastic!



That sounds good.  Looks like they are local, hopefully it will help to arrange some audition.


----------



## jlbrach

i owned a well milo ,the upgraded version and sold it....i also owned the 281, the moon ,the ifi pro can.......the formula s has bested all of them easily to my ears....detailed spacious...a pleasure especially with the abyss and susvara....i liked the 281 with my lcd-4 though really brought out the bass


----------



## simorag (May 13, 2019)

elan120 said:


> Anyone have tried pairing Headamp GS-X mk2 with Abyss Phi TC? Wonder if this amp can pair well and if not, what other choices are recommended?



I had my friend's GS-X in house for a couple of weeks, and while I liked its speed, transparency and grunt, I preferred the Formula S which is still a pretty neutral amp, but slightly on the warmer side as opposed to the neutral-to-cold signature I heard from the Headamp in my system.
My definition of "neutral" - in this context - is how the presentation of the Abyss directly connected to the DAVE is altered by the amp, by the way.

One note I like to add is that the Formula S definitely benefits from the Powerman power unit, I had my Powerman repaired a few months ago and in the interim I decided to go back to listening the Abyss from the DAVE direct, as the presentation went flatter, less refined in the top end, less dynamic and with fuzzier imaging in comparison. So I would recommend the Formula S + Powerman as a combo.



elan120 said:


> What is the interconnect cable you are using?


First of all I ordered the Formula S with the RCA connector, since this is what XI Audio recommends for best transparency.
Then, I recently found that interconnects, at least in my relatively resolving system, have their role.
Over the last year, I have used three RCA interconnects:  Transparent MusicLink Plus, JPS Superconductor Q and finally Acrolink 7N-2090 Speciale Anniversary.
The latter brought a new level of naturalness, with a slightly richer and more saturated color palette and smoother treble, without transparency loss.


----------



## Alarickc

I use a 1266 Phi CC with the GS-X Mk2 on a daily basis. As others have said it's a brutally transparent amp, with gobs of power and seemingly absolute control over the diaphragms of the Abyss (not an easy feat with any single-sided magnet planar). The tricky part of it though is that you're listening just to your source. Most people don't like how cold sounding all but the warmest digital sources are without some sweetening the GS-X won't provide. I listen almost exclusively to a fairly warm analog front-end, so it's brilliant for me, but your mileage may vary. If you plan on using an analog source or a warmer R2R DAC the GS-X is definitely worth an audition at its price point.


----------



## FLTWS

simorag said:


> ...
> 
> One note I like to add is that the Formula S definitely benefits from the Powerman power unit, I had my Powerman repaired a few months ago and in the interim I decided to go back to listening the Abyss from the DAVE direct, as the presentation went flatter, less refined in the top end, less dynamic and with fuzzier imaging in comparison. So I would recommend the Formula S + Powerman as a combo.
> ...



I second the recommendation on Powerman for Formula S.


----------



## elan120

simorag said:


> I had my friend's GS-X in house for a couple of weeks, and while I liked its speed, transparency and grunt, I preferred the Formula S which is still a pretty neutral amp, but slightly on the warmer side as opposed to the neutral-to-cold signature I heard from the Headamp in my system.
> My definition of "neutral" - in this context - is how the presentation of the Abyss directly connected to the DAVE is altered by the amp, by the way.
> 
> One note I like to add is that the Formula S definitely benefits from the Powerman power unit, I had my Powerman repaired a few months ago and in the interim I decided to go back to listening the Abyss from the DAVE direct, as the presentation went flatter, less refined in the top end, less dynamic and with fuzzier imaging in comparison. So I would recommend the Formula S + Powerman as a combo.
> ...



Thank you for the inputs, this helps.  When you listen to DAVE direct, do you feel DAVE have enough output to power Abyss properly?  I am curious because someone I trust run output from TT2 direct to CC with very good result, but TT2 has higher output power.


----------



## elan120

Alarickc said:


> I use a 1266 Phi CC with the GS-X Mk2 on a daily basis. As others have said it's a brutally transparent amp, with gobs of power and seemingly absolute control over the diaphragms of the Abyss (not an easy feat with any single-sided magnet planar). The tricky part of it though is that you're listening just to your source. Most people don't like how cold sounding all but the warmest digital sources are without some sweetening the GS-X won't provide. I listen almost exclusively to a fairly warm analog front-end, so it's brilliant for me, but your mileage may vary. If you plan on using an analog source or a warmer R2R DAC the GS-X is definitely worth an audition at its price point.



I most likely will start with GS-X mk2 as I have easy access to one for audition, and my DAC happen to be a R2R.  Not sure whether I will end up with this amp, but it sounds like a good candidate.


----------



## simorag

elan120 said:


> Thank you for the inputs, this helps.  When you listen to DAVE direct, do you feel DAVE have enough output to power Abyss properly?  I am curious because someone I trust run output from TT2 direct to CC with very good result, but TT2 has higher output power.



I have written my impressions about DAVE direct vs. Formula S in this post. Long story short: DAVE direct works well with Abyss Phi or Phi CC in a lot of situations, and in some specific cases I actually preferred the DAVE direct compared to going through the amp.

I have since made a few upgrades to my system, i.e. (a) added the M Scaler (which "steals" 3dB of extra headroom), (b) switched from Abyss Phi to Phi TC (which is a bit less efficient than the Phi or Phi CC) and (c) upgraded the RCA interconnect and power cord to the amp.

In my current set-up I tend to go through the amp most of the time, I like the extra power of the Formula S and the transparency loss is now hard for me to hear.

Of course the TT2 is a very different beast than the DAVE when it comes to output power. I never heard the TT2, but merely based on its power figures it should be fine with all Abyss AB-1266 variants, so I can see how your friend enjoys the pairing.


----------



## Mikey99

FLTWS said:


> I second the recommendation on Powerman for Formula S.


And I third it, even if that’s not a thing ...


----------



## elan120

simorag said:


> I have written my impressions about DAVE direct vs. Formula S in this post. Long story short: DAVE direct works well with Abyss Phi or Phi CC in a lot of situations, and in some specific cases I actually preferred the DAVE direct compared to going through the amp.
> 
> I have since made a few upgrades to my system, i.e. (a) added the M Scaler (which "steals" 3dB of extra headroom), (b) switched from Abyss Phi to Phi TC (which is a bit less efficient than the Phi or Phi CC) and (c) upgraded the RCA interconnect and power cord to the amp.
> 
> ...



Thank you again for the additional information.  Formula S does sound like a winner combination with Abyss.  I spent quite a bit of effort to update and refine my digital front end since last year, and now feel it is time to work on the amp and headphone section.  Once TC is delivered, I will see about arrange having this amp and power supply for audition.


----------



## elan120

FLTWS said:


> I second the recommendation on Powerman for Formula S.





Mikey99 said:


> And I third it, even if that’s not a thing ...



Works for me!


----------



## jlbrach

FLTWS said:


> I second the recommendation on Powerman for Formula S.



so do I, I started out with the formula s alone and was rather surprised as to how big an improvement the powerman made to the overall presentation....deeper bass and a blacker background that actually makes the same recording sound louder at least to my ears


----------



## Litlgi74

Hello...

I am picking up a pair of Abyss 1266 PHI CCs next week from another user on this forum... 

I currently have a pair of Fostex TH-900s driven by a RME ADI-2 DAC. I love the RME... It has more than enough power to drive the Fostex. Will it have enough power the drive the Abyss at a decent volume level? What are the power requirements to properly drive the 1266?

I saw a while back that Cayin was asking for reviewers of their iHA-6... It looks like it has more than enough power to drive to 1266... What was the consensus on that amp?

Thanks
John


----------



## tholt

I have the Phi CC with CC pads. I currently use the Cayin and I really like it. It's neutral and powerful. A nice pairing IMO. I also have the Wells Milo which many like with the Abyss and I'd say they're both very capable.


----------



## Litlgi74

tholt said:


> I have the Phi CC with CC pads. I currently use the Cayin and I really like it. It's neutral and powerful. A nice pairing IMO. I also have the Wells Milo which many like with the Abyss and I'd say they're both very capable.



Wow... Cool! At its price point, I wasn't expecting anyone to praise the iHA-6.


----------



## tholt

I believe Cayin used to show with Abyss, or maybe the other way around, as a very good 'budget' option for the 1266. It was certainly a pleasant surprise to me. I'm sure there are amps that bring more out of the Abyss, but yes, you can't go wrong for the price IMO.


----------



## Litlgi74

tholt said:


> I believe Cayin used to show with Abyss, or maybe the other way around, as a very good 'budget' option for the 1266. It was certainly a pleasant surprise to me. I'm sure there are amps that bring more out of the Abyss, but yes, you can't go wrong for the price IMO.



Thanks...

I just picked up a used iha-6 from the classified section on this forum.

I look forward to hearing it with my new 1266.


----------



## deuter

tholt said:


> I believe Cayin used to show with Abyss, or maybe the other way around, as a very good 'budget' option for the 1266. It was certainly a pleasant surprise to me. I'm sure there are amps that bring more out of the Abyss, but yes, you can't go wrong for the price IMO.



An amp is definitely required to be capable to bring the most of a headphone but at the same time its not a case of " there is this one extremely expensive amp that can only do justice to these headphones".
A lot of people make you believe that's the case for various reasons, end of the day what you need is decent voltage and current in the output at the specific impedance curve of the headphone and rest is just the toning of the sound.


----------



## elan120

Just curious, anyone having any purchasing experience with Audio46 located in NY?


----------



## tholt

deuter said:


> An amp is definitely required to be capable to bring the most of a headphone but at the same time its not a case of " there is this one extremely expensive amp that can only do justice to these headphones".
> A lot of people make you believe that's the case for various reasons, end of the day what you need is decent voltage and current in the output at the specific impedance curve of the headphone and rest is just the toning of the sound.



I wasn't meaning to imply there is just one very expensive amp that is the ultimate for the Abyss. I don't think that would ever be the case for any headphone. I have not heard anything more expensive than the Wells Milo (upgraded edition), but solely based on readings, I do get the impression there are some fairly pricey amps that sound amazing sounding with the Abyss —which one would assume — but I take your point. At these prices, people can get downright snooty (my local audio dealer, for example).

My experience is, despite having adequate power output, some amps don't sound good with the Abyss (i.e. Schiit Mjolnir 2), so synergy seems to be a factor as well. The Cayin sounds very good to my ears, and for $699 list, I think it's appropriate to mention it is relatively affordable as well.


----------



## Allears79

elan120 said:


> Just curious, anyone having any purchasing experience with Audio46 located in NY?


I just bought my Abyss Phi TC from them and have no complains at all. It took 5 weeks for them to call me and get the hp picked up at store, but that is usually the production time from JPS. I also buy most of my HP gear from them and only have positive experiences.


----------



## elan120

Allears79 said:


> I just bought my Abyss Phi TC from them and have no complains at all. It took 5 weeks for them to call me and get the hp picked up at store, but that is usually the production time from JPS. I also buy most of my HP gear from them and only have positive experiences.



Thank you for the feedback, that is very good to know as they seems to have very good reviews.


----------



## Allears79

I just finished setting up my Chord Hugo TT2 + Mscaler and I am driving the Abyss TC directly from the SC. So far I like what I hear specially in the detail retrieval and resolution. I am just curious if someone is using an external amp with the TT2 and noticed a significant improvement in SQ, specially in the bass area. One of the reasons I bought the TT2 is because of the amp quality, but would really like to know if it is worth adding an external amp to this system...


----------



## jlbrach

i am using the formula s with the abyss and it is a match made in heaven...i used to own the violectric 281 which is a great amp and powerful as can be but not quite as good....


----------



## deuter

jlbrach said:


> i am using the formula s with the abyss and it is a match made in heaven...i used to own the violectric 281 which is a great amp and powerful as can be but not quite as good....



Could you elaborate on the shortfalls of the 281 ?


----------



## Litlgi74

deuter said:


> Could you elaborate on the shortfalls of the 281 ?


+1


----------



## jlbrach

No real shortfalls the 281 is excellent. The formula s is just to my ears more detailed with a blacker background and a wider sound stage. For the price the 281 is outstanding


----------



## tholt

jlbrach said:


> No real shortfalls the 281 is excellent. The formula s is just to my ears more detailed with a blacker background and a wider sound stage. For the price the 281 is outstanding



I had the V200 and if there is a Violectric house sound, it doesn't surprise me if the V280 has a comparatively narrow-ish soundstage. That was my experience with the V200. It was a nice sound, a tad on the warm side, with a good amount of power and finesse, if a bit on the softer and rounder side.


----------



## cj3209

jlbrach said:


> No real shortfalls the 281 is excellent. The formula s is just to my ears more detailed with a blacker background and a wider sound stage. For the price the 281 is outstanding


I can't imagine a blacker background than what I'm (not) hearing with the v281/pavane combination.  Please keep the S away from me...lol...


----------



## jlbrach

no problem, i have no intention of forcing it upon you!


----------



## Blitzula

jlbrach, it seems that over time you've come to growingly  appreciate an amp with the PhiDave.

Is it still close with the ratio of songs you enjoy on the Dave alone vs amped? Or what percentage of the songs do you prefer amped now?


----------



## jlbrach

since i got the formula s i have been using the amp with the phi tc /dave almost all the time......i simply find myself enjoying it more...that said i can imagine others feeling differently...i listen to a lot of uncompressed jazz and it simply requires the amp and this combo is terrific


----------



## simorag

Listening to Beethoven 3rd (Abbado / Wiener) right now with the Abyss TC.

Full blown orchestral passages in the finale - allegro played back at realistic volume level sound beautifully controlled, majestic, clear and undistorted via Formula S / Powerman. 

Via the DAVE direct I am hearing some signs of strain, soundstage collapse / congestion. While still an awe-inspiring experience (as the 3rd should be), some of the enjoyment is lost in direct comparison.


----------



## jlbrach

i used to think the dave a lone was the better choice until the got the formula s and powerman and since then i am listening basically only to the combo....the dave drives them well but the overall impact with the amp is more immersive for me....everything is grander...the uncompressed recordings that required really pushing the dave alone are effortless with the amp....others may disagree...expensive hobby aint it lol?


----------



## xutantuo

isquirrel said:


> I have been reading everyone's post with interest, its good to be back on Head-Fi.
> 
> Just received news that a par of TC's is heading my way in a couple of weeks. I have the Susvara, Utopia etc but feel that my current Phi CC is the ultimate Headphone for me. I have been using them out of my WA33 Elite, however a coupe of weeks ago I swapped the WA33 out for the latest edition of the 234's (which are single ended) running Takatsuki 300B's and 274B's and preferred the 234's for their dynamic slam, resolution and ability to use different types of tubes. I am using the DHC Prion4S balanced with the Abyss.
> 
> I realised after going through all my Headphones that I have the complete collection of all the editions of the Abyss. Cannot wait for the TC's.


I also own the abyss and the wa33 eite. I am very curious on your opinion over the wa33 elite vs wa234 comparison. Is the wa234 clearly better sounding to you with the abyss than the wa33 elite? Also I saw on your signature that you own the wa234 elite. I am wondering whether that's an upgrade over the stock wa234? 
Thank you very much!


----------



## Zhanming057

xutantuo said:


> I also own the abyss and the wa33 eite. I am very curious on your opinion over the wa33 elite vs wa234 comparison. Is the wa234 clearly better sounding to you with the abyss than the wa33 elite? Also I saw on your signature that you own the wa234 elite. I am wondering whether that's an upgrade over the stock wa234?
> Thank you very much!



The WA234 is a side-grade unless you care about having one amp that will run both 300b and 2a3 tubes and in particular 300b performance. It's a better amp than the WA5 on 300b's, and a great amp on the 2a3's but not definitively better than the WA33 elite. Paired with great 300b tubes it is a powerhouse but IMO you are mostly paying for the versatility and the true dual mono design. Not sure if there a WA234 elite, my understanding is that the 234 has only one model at $16k. 

At that price range, though, there are far, far better 300b speaker amps, and you could probably even find a quad 300b design that will happily push to close to 20wpc.


----------



## xutantuo

Zhanming057 said:


> The WA234 is a side-grade unless you care about having one amp that will run both 300b and 2a3 tubes and in particular 300b performance. It's a better amp than the WA5 on 300b's, and a great amp on the 2a3's but not definitively better than the WA33 elite. Paired with great 300b tubes it is a powerhouse but IMO you are mostly paying for the versatility and the true dual mono design. Not sure if there a WA234 elite, my understanding is that the 234 has only one model at $16k.
> 
> At that price range, though, there are far, far better 300b speaker amps, and you could probably even find a quad 300b design that will happily push to close to 20wpc.


Thanks a lot for your reply! I am still curious about the comparison between the wa234 and wa33 elite. It seems that Woo never offered an official explanation on which amp is better suited for the abyss.


----------



## Zhanming057

xutantuo said:


> Thanks a lot for your reply! I am still curious about the comparison between the wa234 and wa33 elite. It seems that Woo never offered an official explanation on which amp is better suited for the abyss.



It's a matter of taste. People have a love/hate relationship with 300b's. I'm not generally a tube fan but I really like 300b amps. 

If you're looking for a next step upgrade to the WA33 Elite and is interested in 300b's, see if you can set up a demo session for the Airtight ATM-300R off speaker taps. Nothing 2a3 comes to mind that's a clear step up over the WA33E, though.


----------



## xutantuo

Zhanming057 said:


> It's a matter of taste. People have a love/hate relationship with 300b's. I'm not generally a tube fan but I really like 300b amps.
> 
> If you're looking for a next step upgrade to the WA33 Elite and is interested in 300b's, see if you can set up a demo session for the Airtight ATM-300R off speaker taps. Nothing 2a3 comes to mind that's a clear step up over the WA33E, though.


Thanks a ton! I am a newbie here. I will do some research on speaker amps.


----------



## tholt

Anyone have experience using ampsandsound amps with the Abyss Phi? Looking at the Mogwai SE. Purportedly 5w output with stock rectifier and KT88 tubes. Wondering about sonic characteristics. Might be a pipe dream, but I'd love to get the warmth, mids and 3D presence of tubes with the bass and speed of SS.


----------



## isquirrel

xutantuo said:


> I also own the abyss and the wa33 eite. I am very curious on your opinion over the wa33 elite vs wa234 comparison. Is the wa234 clearly better sounding to you with the abyss than the wa33 elite? Also I saw on your signature that you own the wa234 elite. I am wondering whether that's an upgrade over the stock wa234?
> Thank you very much!



Both are great sounding amps. Personally I have quite a large NOS tube collection so the 234 allows me to roll a greater selection of tubes and hence change the sound according to my tastes on any particular day. My 234's are the 3rd pair I have owned and I wanted some custom work done on them hence the Elite badge on the rear. Woo have recently produced a MKII 234 which uses a different driver tube which was a 6SN7 and now is a 13EM7 which drives 300B's better apparently. My 234's run 15EM7 RCA driver tubes. I have a soft spot for 45's and use the EML 45 Globe tubes, they did a limited production run and I managed to snag a pair.

I generally gravitate towards Plannars and so my Abyss are usually my go to HP's. I prefer the 234's driving the Abyss. A new SS amp is arriving soon for audtion however I have a soft spot for Valves so it will have to sound pretty special.

I read Zhanming057's excellent review of the Raal SR1's and would love to hear a pair however I am in Australia so that's not going to happen any time soon. He seems to have a preference for using speaker amps with HP's which is something I have not tried but will try to do so.


----------



## xutantuo

isquirrel said:


> Both are great sounding amps. Personally I have quite a large NOS tube collection so the 234 allows me to roll a greater selection of tubes and hence change the sound according to my tastes on any particular day. My 234's are the 3rd pair I have owned and I wanted some custom work done on them hence the Elite badge on the rear. Woo have recently produced a MKII 234 which uses a different driver tube which was a 6SN7 and now is a 13EM7 which drives 300B's better apparently. My 234's run 15EM7 RCA driver tubes. I have a soft spot for 45's and use the EML 45 Globe tubes, they did a limited production run and I managed to snag a pair.
> 
> I generally gravitate towards Plannars and so my Abyss are usually my go to HP's. I prefer the 234's driving the Abyss. A new SS amp is arriving soon for audtion however I have a soft spot for Valves so it will have to sound pretty special.
> 
> I read Zhanming057's excellent review of the Raal SR1's and would love to hear a pair however I am in Australia so that's not going to happen any time soon. He seems to have a preference for using speaker amps with HP's which is something I have not tried but will try to do so.


Thank you very much for your comment! Please continue to share your thoughts on this forum and I am sure a lot of people will appreciate your sharing!


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Wonderfully descriptive review of Diana Phi by @Headpfonics...

https://headfonics.com/2019/05/abyss-headphones-diana-phi-review/


----------



## CreditingKarma

I just picked up the 1266 tc yesterday. I am amazed by how good they are. They rival my two channel setup for sure. They also send significantly better than the diana phi to me as well. They are not portable.but my IEMS will do for portable needs.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Does anyone have any feedback on 'transportable' amp options to drive the Abyss Phi or TC?
I just got a Rupert Neve RNHP from B&H, which beats the Hugo 2 on its own but doesn't match the Formula S (of course).  Curious if anyone has experience with other smaller-size amps, battery-powered or not.   I've read mixed things about the Broadway amp from XI Audio which is battery-powered.


----------



## buke9

mt-hifidelity said:


> Does anyone have any feedback on 'transportable' amp options to drive the Abyss Phi or TC?
> I just got a Rupert Neve RNHP from B&H, which beats the Hugo 2 on its own but doesn't match the Formula S (of course).  Curious if anyone has experience with other smaller-size amps, battery-powered or not.   I've read mixed things about the Broadway amp from XI Audio which is battery-powered.


 I have an original Cavalli Liquid Carbon and it does quite well with my OG’s.


----------



## ufospls2

iFi Micro iDSD BL is a great pairing


----------



## mt-hifidelity

ufospls2 said:


> iFi Micro iDSD BL is a great pairing


I tried it but found the DAC section a bit lacking.  On the other hand its one of the only battery-powered options that can drive bigger and more demanding HPs, so I still give it props.  I'm willing to use something that requires plug in power if the size and form factor enable transportability.  I tried the Cavalli-designed Monoprice Spark amp, which is only a hundred bucks and great for its price, but it doesn't support the Phi imo.   It just about handles the Diana if you aren't too demanding.
The RNHP is impressing me so far for its size and price but I just wonder if there's another option I may be missing...


----------



## lambdastorm (May 30, 2019)

mt-hifidelity said:


> I tried it but found the DAC section a bit lacking.  On the other hand its one of the only battery-powered options that can drive bigger and more demanding HPs, so I still give it props.  I'm willing to use something that requires plug in power if the size and form factor enable transportability.  I tried the Cavalli-designed Monoprice Spark amp, which is only a hundred bucks and great for its price, but it doesn't support the Phi imo.   It just about handles the Diana if you aren't too demanding.
> The RNHP is impressing me so far for its size and price but I just wonder if there's another option I may be missing...



More than just a little lacking tbh. When I got the iDSD BL I was amazed by how good it functions as an amp, but the DAC section is more than just a little mediocre. It has little to no dynamics and music just sounds flat.

I also think RNHP sounds excellent as a transportable amp. It doesn't have the biggest headroom or the most delicate texture, but the transparency is second to none. I've tried many $500-tier (semi-transportable) amps such as the Gilmore Lite MkII, THX, Meier Jazz, Jotty, etc, and wrote a small comparison review, give it a read if it strikes your fancy: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/old-upgraded-headamp-gilmore-lite-mkii-headphone-amp.905565/


----------



## CreditingKarma

It is not portable but the Cavalli liquid platinum by monoprice really sounds good with the abyss tc. At $750 it is an amp that out performs it price range in my opinion. I am going to try the alo cv5 tonight. I will probably wait on the sp1000 amp to see what people report on its driving power.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

lambdastorm said:


> More than just a little lacking tbh. When I got the iDSD BL I was amazed by how good it functions as an amp, but the DAC section is more than just a little mediocre. It has little to no dynamics and music just sounds flat.
> 
> I also think RNHP sounds excellent as a transportable amp. It doesn't have the biggest headroom or the most delicate texture, but the transparency is second to none. I've tried many $500-tier (semi-transportable) amps such as the Gilmore Lite MkII, THX, Meier Jazz, Jotty, etc, and wrote a small comparison review, give it a read if it strikes your fancy: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/old-upgraded-headamp-gilmore-lite-mkii-headphone-amp.905565/


You tried the ifi with the Abyss?  I didn't but can't imagine it would drive it adequately. I'm most curious about the balanced Broadway but it's pricey.


----------



## jlbrach

the ifi will drive the abyss phi easily I do not see anyone using the TC or susvara in a portable way but the ifi is incredibly powerful for a portable and the DAC is actually quite good...it isnt as good as the Hugo 2 but it is solid....the ifi works very well as an external amp for the HUgo 2


----------



## cj3209

jlbrach said:


> the ifi will drive the abyss phi easily I do not see anyone using the TC or susvara in a portable way but the ifi is incredibly powerful for a portable and the DAC is actually quite good...it isnt as good as the Hugo 2 but it is solid....the ifi works very well as an external amp for the HUgo 2


I second the iFi; it's a very decent amp/DAC that is powerful.  MQA Tidal files sounded very good.  It competes well with more expensive amps.


----------



## kyle1010

cj3209 said:


> I second the iFi; it's a very decent amp/DAC that is powerful.  MQA Tidal files sounded very good.  It competes well with more expensive amps.



Can your WA11 compete with the ifi power-wise? Like if the ifi is a 10 would the Topaz be at least an 8 as far as drive? I’ve read that it’s pretty gutsy but not sure how it stacks against the portable power champ ifi.


----------



## mulder01

I've tried the ifi idsd with the 1266 as well (OG) and it had plenty of juice, but was a bit harsh sounding for my tastes


----------



## isquirrel

Great news, my TC's are being delivered tomorrow. 

I have prepared an evening full of music for the Phi CC's, so I can get my ears organised to do a comparison. I have rolled the Elrog 300B's and 274B's into the amp. I can heartily recommend this Valve set up.

I will post my impressions tomorrow.


----------



## CreditingKarma

I tried the Alo CV5 last night with the 1266 tc. It had enough power to drive them surprisingly. They sounded pretty good out of it the soundstage was smaller and the bass was less impactful than with the liquid platinum. I think that the ALO can be serviceable in a pinch though.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Quick question is is safe to let the 1266 play with them on a stand to burn in? I had them playing last night on the desk and the bass was really boomy? I am not sure if this is due to the lack of damping on them. I just don't want to kill them.


----------



## cj3209

kyle1010 said:


> Can your WA11 compete with the ifi power-wise? Like if the ifi is a 10 would the Topaz be at least an 8 as far as drive? I’ve read that it’s pretty gutsy but not sure how it stacks against the portable power champ ifi.


I'm waiting for the wa11s to be delivered...


----------



## kyle1010

cj3209 said:


> I'm waiting for the wa11s to be delivered...


Nice. You’re in SoCal? Going to CanJam? I’ll be there, can’t wait to hear the TC and see if it has the tonality to make me part with my beloved LCD-4s.


----------



## cj3209

kyle1010 said:


> Nice. You’re in SoCal? Going to CanJam? I’ll be there, can’t wait to hear the TC and see if it has the tonality to make me part with my beloved LCD-4s.


I've never been to one of the 'jams but can you really hear sound differences in that type of noisy crowded environment?


----------



## kyle1010

cj3209 said:


> I've never been to one of the 'jams but can you really hear sound differences in that type of noisy crowded environment?



Haha, absolutely. People kinda exaggerate that. It’s not like grand central station crowded or noisey in there. Especially in the Woo or Stax rooms where they have all the flagship headphones. Very chill. I can hear subtle differences in every headphone, amp, or dac I try there, but maybe I just have really good ears. Well worth the 20 bucks for a ticket even just to shoot the crap with fellow headphone junkies and brand owners/reps.


----------



## drew911d

tholt said:


> Anyone have experience using ampsandsound amps with the Abyss Phi? Looking at the Mogwai SE. Purportedly 5w output with stock rectifier and KT88 tubes. Wondering about sonic characteristics. Might be a pipe dream, but I'd love to get the warmth, mids and 3D presence of tubes with the bass and speed of SS.



I've heard a few of them, but not the Mogwai.  They all have a sweet sound, with different characteristics.  None of those I heard had much bass, so if you want bass impact it may not satisfy.  They may be getting better at that though, I recently heard an updated Leloo II and, with the exception of few tracks, the bass was very satisfying.  I liked this amp of Jason's best.  It had the most balanced sound signature of many amps I've heard.  I'd like to hear more of his updated amps now.  Audition first...


----------



## isquirrel (Jun 1, 2019)

Received the TC's yesterday and listened till the top of my head hurt I enjoyed them so much. The difference between the TC's and the Phi CC is not subtle, the TC's have a magic midrange and tuneful thunderous bass. In short even though I know they will get better with time they are already at the top of my list, they have EStat like mid range clarity with a wonderfully musical midrange. Patricia Barber on her Companion album is epic, you can clearly hear the crowd and the Venue's ambience. I threw some complex Orchestral pieces at them:

Bach Cello Suite No.1
Mozart Divertemento in D Mov 1
LB The Monster Comes Down from the Mountains - Fundação Orquestra Estúdio

The bass is better delineated than the Phi CC's and just as impactful, except now you can hear into the bass lines. I have not felt like listening to Music for hours into the night and early morning for a long time, ill health hasn't helped, however these TC's are wonderful.......! Just the Medicine needed.

I wondered about system synergy (Elrog 300B's & 274B's which are fast transparent tubes) and there's no doubt the TC's like plenty of power. Considering they have only a few hours on them and I haven't adjusted the frame yet, I wait with excitement in anticipation of what's to come.

Congratulations JPS Labs you have produced an absolutely stunning Headphone in every respect.


----------



## fredfung28

isquirrel said:


> Received the TC's yesterday and listened till the top of my head hurt I enjoyed them so much. The difference between the TC's and the Phi CC is not subtle, the TC's have a magic midrange and tuneful thunderous bass. In short even though I know they will get better with time they are already at the top of my list, they have EStat like mid range clarity with a wonderfully musical midrange. Patricia Barber on her Companion album is epic, you can clearly hear the crowd and the Venue's ambience. I threw some complex Orchestral pieces at them:
> 
> Bach Cello Suite No.1
> Mozart Divertemento in D Mov 1
> ...



Long time not seeing you post something, and nice to know your thoughts about Tc! I tried mysphere and finds that the imaging, warmth and texture of mysphere is very good, however other aspects are a bit not up to the standard that I want comparing to abyss. I have the phi with cc pad and I am very satisfied with it other than the little harshness in the mid.

May I know what is the change of the mid comparing to the phi cc? Does it add some thickness in it or it refines more?


----------



## tholt

drew911d said:


> I've heard a few of them, but not the Mogwai. They all have a sweet sound, with different characteristics. None of those I heard had much bass, so if you want bass impact it may not satisfy. They may be getting better at that though, I recently heard an updated Leloo II and, with the exception of few tracks, the bass was very satisfying. I liked this amp of Jason's best. It had the most balanced sound signature of many amps I've heard. I'd like to hear more of his updated amps now. Audition first...



Thanks for the feedback. So I presume you listened to these using Abyss 1266? Or just impressions in general. Anyway, not sure the Mogwai would be to my liking. Wish I could audition first (goes without saying) but I don't think that's possible unless ampsandsound has a trial policy, which isn't stated on their website.


----------



## Allears79

Anyone have experienced vibration sounds especially during high piano notes or low bass? I tried many adjustments and I am listening in moderate volumes, but in some songs I can hear this "distortions" and this is definitely not in the recording. I am using the TC with SC cables and TT2 as DAC/amp. Anyone experiencing the same issue?


----------



## tholt

Allears79 said:


> Anyone have experienced vibration sounds especially during high piano notes or low bass? I tried many adjustments and I am listening in moderate volumes, but in some songs I can hear this "distortions" and this is definitely not in the recording. I am using the TC with SC cables and TT2 as DAC/amp. Anyone experiencing the same issue?



Yes I have. It depends on the frequency (Hz) and amount, but it can manifest. Try rotating the ear cups so there is less of an opening, i.e. more sealed against your head.


----------



## CreditingKarma

tholt said:


> Yes I have. It depends on the frequency (Hz) and amount, but it can manifest. Try rotating the ear cups so there is less of an opening, i.e. more sealed against your head.



Yes I have experienced this as well. It was with solo cello music. It was on specific notes and in a frequency sweep as well. I had experienced this with the diana phi previously too. It had happened on my LCD 4z with the same works. They replaced the drivers in the 4z and and it got better. I am not sure maybe it has to do with the thin drivers. It is primarily on one driver. It would be great to hear from Joe on this.


----------



## MacedonianHero

isquirrel said:


> Received the TC's yesterday and listened till the top of my head hurt I enjoyed them so much. The difference between the TC's and the Phi CC is not subtle, the TC's have a magic midrange and tuneful thunderous bass. In short even though I know they will get better with time they are already at the top of my list, they have EStat like mid range clarity with a wonderfully musical midrange. Patricia Barber on her Companion album is epic, you can clearly hear the crowd and the Venue's ambience. I threw some complex Orchestral pieces at them:
> 
> Bach Cello Suite No.1
> Mozart Divertemento in D Mov 1
> ...



I agree with your EStat comments. That was one of the first things I thought when I heard the TC..it was as if the CC had an affair with the SR-009. The CC bass and heft was there, but with the upmost in terms of speed and transparency. Joe really figured out how to have your cake and eat it too!


----------



## Allears79

CreditingKarma said:


> Yes I have experienced this as well. It was with solo cello music. It was on specific notes and in a frequency sweep as well. I had experienced this with the diana phi previously too. It had happened on my LCD 4z with the same works. They replaced the drivers in the 4z and and it got better. I am not sure maybe it has to do with the thin drivers. It is primarily on one driver. It would be great to hear from Joe on this.


Yes, it's happening on the left driver only and it gets a bit annoying, because sometimes I listen to music just waiting for that vibration to happen... Didn't expect this.


----------



## tholt

Allears79 said:


> Yes, it's happening on the left driver only and it gets a bit annoying, because sometimes I listen to music just waiting for that vibration to happen... Didn't expect this.



Strange it's happening to only one driver. I've had some vibration anomalies that were alleviated by removing the ear cup, then re-attaching. It was the ear cup vibrating against the frame and unseating/reseating did the trick. 

If it continues I'd reach out to Joe.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Allears79 said:


> Yes, it's happening on the left driver only and it gets a bit annoying, because sometimes I listen to music just waiting for that vibration to happen... Didn't expect this.



It is the left driver for me too. It was also the left driver on the diana too.


----------



## drew911d

tholt said:


> Thanks for the feedback. So I presume you listened to these using Abyss 1266? Or just impressions in general. Anyway, not sure the Mogwai would be to my liking. Wish I could audition first (goes without saying) but I don't think that's possible unless ampsandsound has a trial policy, which isn't stated on their website.



Yes, these were with my Abyss Phi and CC pads.  Jason usually goes to the Phx mini con.  I'm not sure which others he goes to.


----------



## tholt

drew911d said:


> Yes, these were with my Abyss Phi and CC pads. Jason usually goes to the Phx mini con. I'm not sure which others he goes to.



Cool and cool. Would love to hear some of his stuff. Be nice if Abyss wasn't so hard to drive/finicky, sure would open up a lot of doors!


----------



## drew911d

tholt said:


> Cool and cool. Would love to hear some of his stuff. Be nice if Abyss wasn't so hard to drive/finicky, sure would open up a lot of doors!



With the Leloo II I was using the 8 ohm speaker taps.  I didn't bother trying the 32 ohm headphone jack.  The Abyss sure craves power, but when it gets it, magic does happen.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jun 2, 2019)

Hoping to get some insight when using 1266 CCs

To be honest... I was a bit underwhelmed when first hooking them up. I am using balanced connections from my RME ADI-2 DAC to the Cayin iha-6 amp. My first thoughts were .. where is the bass slam everyone is talking about?

So I did a little research only to find that I needed to reposition the headband and pads. I now have the headband as wide as it will go and have the pads with seam at 11 and 1 o'clock... I also have a bit of a gap (port) between my head and the front of the ear pads. Doing this has improved the sub-bass response. But it still sounds as though I am missing quite a bit of low and mid bass.

My headphone choice prior to the 1266 was a pair of TH900s... To me... They had a much richer fuller sound... No don't get me wrong. The clarity of the 1266 is phenomenal. Almost harsh at times. But it sounds like I am missing quite a bit of information in the frequency response.

I listen to quite a bit of EDM, ambient, and trance like music. When using the TH900s for these genres... The bass had a definitive thump, or slam to it... But that bass also flowed seamlessly into the midrange. This is where I am struggling with the 1266... It sounds like there is a gap in the music.

Hoping for help.

PS... This is what the top my of my headband looks like for the best bass response... What does yours look like?


----------



## CreditingKarma

Litlgi74 said:


> Hoping to get some insight when using 1266 CCs
> 
> To be honest... I was a bit underwhelmed when first hooking them up. I am using balanced connections from my RME ADI-2 DAC to the Cayin iha-6 amp. My first thoughts were .. where is the bass slam everyone is talking about?
> 
> ...




You might want to try bending the head band to get a better fit. I like tho have the drivers angled in the other direction and leave the gap at the bottom of the ears. I haven't tried the th900 but from what I have read that is a dream for a bass head. The 1266 is more of a reference sound signature than a fun sound sig to me. They have great bass but the soundstage and resolution are also beyond anything else I have heard. 

I am currently using them with the metrum onyx and liquid platinum. I really like how they sound with that combo.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Litlgi74 said:


> Hoping to get some insight when using 1266 CCs
> 
> To be honest... I was a bit underwhelmed when first hooking them up. I am using balanced connections from my RME ADI-2 DAC to the Cayin iha-6 amp. My first thoughts were .. where is the bass slam everyone is talking about?
> 
> ...





TC - Phi


----------



## MacedonianHero

matthewhypolite said:


> TC - Phi



Looks like we both prefer the TC's the same way. Funny, I found I preferred the CC a tad more straighter.


----------



## matthewhypolite

MacedonianHero said:


> Looks like we both prefer the TC's the same way. Funny, I found I preferred the CC a tad more straighter.


 
Same, needed a bit more inward bend on the tc, and a bit wider


----------



## kyle1010 (Jun 2, 2019)

Litlgi74 said:


> Hoping to get some insight when using 1266 CCs
> 
> To be honest... I was a bit underwhelmed when first hooking them up. I am using balanced connections from my RME ADI-2 DAC to the Cayin iha-6 amp. My first thoughts were .. where is the bass slam everyone is talking about?
> 
> ...



If all else fails, two words, Schiit Loki. I use one in my setup and have done many lengthy A/B tests SE with the Loki and balanced without it and I can’t hear any loss of transparency whatsoever. I also listen to very well mastered electronic music and ambient stuff so I can’t live without that little quarter turn of the Loki’s low end knob. Tbh I know I have a pretty high end setup, but I’ve heard electrostat level clarity coming out of my cans with the Loki engaged. So even if I am losing a few percent of transparency, I could care less cuz my bass KICKS with no distortion. Also, the way I see it is if I ever wanted to overcompensate for having an eq in the chain I’ll just buy an Mscaler to push even more resolution through it. Just food for thought from one bassphile to another


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jun 2, 2019)

kyle1010 said:


> If all else fails, two words, Schiit Loki. I use one in my setup and have done many lengthy A/B tests SE with the Loki and balanced without it and I can’t hear any loss of transparency whatsoever. I also listen to very well mastered electronic music and ambient stuff so I can’t live without that little quarter turn of the Loki’s low end knob. Tbh I know I have a pretty high end setup, but I’ve heard electrostat level clarity coming out of my cans with the Loki engaged. So even if I am losing a few percent of transparency, I could care less cuz my bass KICKS with no distortion. Also, the way I see it is if I ever wanted to overcompensate for having an eq in the chain I’ll just buy an Mscaler to push even more resolution through it. Just food for thought from one bassphile to another



Thank You @kyle1010. I'll look into it... but first Im going to play around with the two (Trebel and Bass) tone controls and the five band equalizer on my RME ADI-2 DAC... I just didn't think I would ever need to with 1266s. I expected perfection... I know that perfection is subjective but I just feel like something is completely missing from the music when transitioning from the bass to the midrange.

Guess i was just expecting to get the rich fullness (maybe exaggerated) of sound (at all frequencies) of the TH900 along with better soundstage, imaging, and clarity...

Could someone recommend a song that has the so called "slam" everyone seems to be talking about? I would think most would consider the bass of the song (Vaishiyas Arped) to have "slam", especially at 1:04... When I play it in my two channel system... it shakes the house! Not so much with the 1266.

Thanks so much for your time


----------



## simorag

Litlgi74 said:


> Hoping to get some insight when using 1266 CCs
> 
> To be honest... I was a bit underwhelmed when first hooking them up. I am using balanced connections from my RME ADI-2 DAC to the Cayin iha-6 amp. My first thoughts were .. where is the bass slam everyone is talking about?
> 
> ...



My TC frame and earcups set-up is as follows.


This is similar to what I had with the Phi with OG pads, while with CC pads I needed to slightly bend the frame outwards and rotate it backwards it to compensate the larger thickness of the pads, so to restore a slight opening port in the front of my jawbone.

I am pretty happy with the bass of the Abyss TC, both in terms of quantity and quality / resolution, but I second that the overall presentation is reference-like rather than fun-like, or euphonic.

While I find the AB-1266 TC a fantastic all rounder, I like them most with classical, acoustics, jazz - i.e. my most usual listening - where their neutral timbre, resolution, transparency, imaging, soundstaging can (almost) stand a good speaker set-up.
If rock, EDM, electronica (which I listen to occasionally) would be my go-to genres, I would prefer a slightly darker, smoother signature as I am very sensitive to treble brightness.



Litlgi74 said:


> Could someone recommend a song that has the so called "slam" everyone seems to be talking about?



- The Weeknd, Starboy and Party Monster, for sub-bass slam
- Beethoven 9th, 2nd movement, Tilson Thomas with San Francisco Symphony for extreme bass slam (play LOUD and listen to the tympani )
- London Grammar, Hey now for sub bass extension


----------



## The Piper

Litlgi74 said:


> Hoping to get some insight when using 1266 CCs
> 
> To be honest... I was a bit underwhelmed when first hooking them up. I am using balanced connections from my RME ADI-2 DAC to the Cayin iha-6 amp. My first thoughts were .. where is the bass slam everyone is talking about?
> 
> ...


How many hours do you have on them?


----------



## Litlgi74

The Piper said:


> How many hours do you have on them?


Probably close to 200.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jun 2, 2019)

I understand that the pads are supposed to barely touching your head... But does that mean that they should be sloppy and rock back and forth when tilting your head? How much space should there be between the pad and your face?


----------



## tholt (Jun 2, 2019)

Litlgi74 said:


> I understand that the pads are supposed to barely touching your head... But does that mean that they should be sloppy and rock back and forth when tilting your head? How much space should there be between the pad and your face?



I've experimented quite a bit with fit, and in general, yes, the earcups are very loosely touching my face and if I shake or nod my head, the headphones sort of flop about a little bit. If I tilted my head back, the headphones might slip off. That's a lot to do with their sheer weight, but they're loose on my head.

I haven't heard your prior headphones, but I concur with others' here. The Abyss 1266 Phi sound is definitely not romantic, it's more neutral and 'reference' if you will. Super resolving as I'm sure you can attest to, and very fast. Headphone fit is critical, so I'd continue to play around with fit. One of the revelations I had is just how much ear cup rotation position affects sound. Try, for instance, putting the seams at 9 o clock and 3 oclock (i.e. seam is at 90 degrees) and see how this affects sound. I would have never thought to place the pads that way since it's counterintuitive to where you think they should be, but that position dramatically affected bass, among other things. I now have them positioned with the seam closer to 10 oclock / 2 oclock and am pretty happy. I don't have any center rotation on the headband, both halves are straight out. I listen to a lot of the same music you do, and it's pretty satisfying. I also use the same Cayin amp you use. If the bass is there, it's definitely present. But the Abyss are not 'bass-head' cans. They're full-spectrum, and a very clean sound.


----------



## ra990 (Jun 2, 2019)

Allears79 said:


> Yes, it's happening on the left driver only and it gets a bit annoying, because sometimes I listen to music just waiting for that vibration to happen... Didn't expect this.


I've experienced this very issue in the past, very annoying indeed and only in the left driver as well. Get in touch with Abyss for support, they will take care of you.


----------



## cj3209 (Jun 2, 2019)

Litlgi74 said:


> Thank You @kyle1010. I'll look into it... but first Im going to play around with the two (Trebel and Bass) tone controls and the five band equalizer on my RME ADI-2 DAC... I just didn't think I would ever need to with 1266s. I expected perfection... I know that perfection is subjective but I just feel like something is completely missing from the music when transitioning from the bass to the midrange.
> 
> Guess i was just expecting to get the rich fullness (maybe exaggerated) of sound (at all frequencies) of the TH900 along with better soundstage, imaging, and clarity...
> 
> ...


Everyone's head is different so looking at how someone has the pads angled etc. won't help.  From my experience, the pads have to fully cover over your ears. If there is a gap, you wont get the full sound.  This is from my experience from rotating the pads to such where I have no gap between my ears and the pads; actually between my head and the pads because the pads cover over my ears.

Imagine Dragons Believer has a good impactful kick that I like.  The 1266s hit it hard through my V281s; any more and I might need surgery...lol.


----------



## jlbrach

i have experimented with pad positioning and currently have 11 and 1 as my current set up...i have adjusted the frame so there is a bit of room away from my head on the lower portion....i find bass that is powerful and incredibly impressive....I owned the lcd-4 and 4z and to my ears the TC is even more impressive....an incredible HP, the clarity and detail is somply amazing


----------



## CreditingKarma

ra990 said:


> I've experienced this very issue in the past, very annoying indeed and only in the left driver as well. Get in touch with Abyss for support, they will take care of you.



Did they let you know what the issue was with the headphone? I returned the diana for that reason. Now it is happening g with the tc.


----------



## Allears79

CreditingKarma said:


> Did they let you know what the issue was with the headphone? I returned the diana for that reason. Now it is happening g with the tc.


Actually I talked to Abyss and was disappointed with the answer, as you can see below:
"It’s highly unlikely there’s anything wrong with the headphone. Piano can get that way, depends on the recording, and those headphones have way more resolution than anything else so they will tease out sounds you’ve not heard before."
If I am complaining about vibration, I am sure that this is not from the recording.


----------



## ra990 (Jun 2, 2019)

Allears79 said:


> Actually I talked to Abyss and was disappointed with the answer, as you can see below:
> "It’s highly unlikely there’s anything wrong with the headphone. Piano can get that way, depends on the recording, and those headphones have way more resolution than anything else so they will tease out sounds you’ve not heard before."
> If I am complaining about vibration, I am sure that this is not from the recording.


I PM'd you but there's a couple different ways you can rule out issues that are in the source vs headphones. Simply swapping the right/left cables of the headphones and check if the noise you're hearing stays on the left after you swap channels should confirm if the noise is from the source or headphones. Abyss was happy to inspect the headphones and provide the necessary repairs for my issue.


----------



## Allears79

ra990 said:


> I PM'd you but there's a couple different ways you can rule out issues that are in the source vs headphones. Simply swapping the right/left cables of the headphones and check if the noise you're hearing stays on the left after you swap channels should confirm if the noise is from the source or headphones. Abyss was happy to inspect the headphones and provide the necessary repairs for my issue.


Thanks a lot for your inputs and kind help. I will try swapping the cables and if the problem continue, I will contact them. Did you have to ship the hp back to them?


----------



## tholt

cj3209 said:


> Everyone's head is different so looking at how someone has the pads angled etc. won't help. From my experience, the pads have to fully cover over your ears. If there is a gap, you wont get the full sound. This is from my experience from rotating the pads to such where I have no gap between my ears and the pads; actually between my head and the pads because the pads cover over my ears.



To each their own but I disagree with this. Experimenting with pad rotation is key and unless your ears/head are massively different than everyone else's, I would argue to a degree that ear pad rotation effects may be more similar than different for most people (i.e. more 'porting' = more bass). One obviously has to experiment for personal tastes. However, IME, positioning the pads so that there is no gap affords less bass, impact and staging, so for me, that's the least desirable and the opposite of full sound. Having a bit of gap is crucial for maximizing the Abyss potential, IMO.


----------



## Litlgi74

simorag said:


> My TC frame and earcups set-up is as follows.
> 
> 
> This is similar to what I had with the Phi with OG pads, while with CC pads I needed to slightly bend the frame outwards and rotate it backwards it to compensate the larger thickness of the pads, so to restore a slight opening port in the front of my jawbone.
> ...



Wow... I've got a big head... LOL! My headband is extended fully and I still need to go out some more.

Thanks for the music suggestions... I can't find Beethoven 9th, 2nd movement on Tidal... might you be able to help? But London Grammar's Hey Now is absolutely fantastic... Soundstage... Soundstage... Soundstage! Not to mention the absolute clarity.

I may have to learn what "reference" music is supposed to "sound" like.

Thanks for your help.


----------



## Litlgi74

tholt said:


> To each their own but I disagree with this. Experimenting with pad rotation is key and unless your ears/head are massively different than everyone else's, I would argue to a degree that ear pad rotation effects may be more similar than different for most people (i.e. more 'porting' = more bass). One obviously has to experiment for personal tastes. However, IME, positioning the pads so that there is no gap affords less bass, impact and staging, so for me, that's the least desirable and the opposite of full sound. Having a bit of gap is crucial for maximizing the Abyss potential, IMO.


 This has been my experience so far as well... No Gap = No (or very limited) Bass!


----------



## cj3209

tholt said:


> To each their own but I disagree with this. Experimenting with pad rotation is key and unless your ears/head are massively different than everyone else's, I would argue to a degree that ear pad rotation effects may be more similar than different for most people (i.e. more 'porting' = more bass). One obviously has to experiment for personal tastes. However, IME, positioning the pads so that there is no gap affords less bass, impact and staging, so for me, that's the least desirable and the opposite of full sound. Having a bit of gap is crucial for maximizing the Abyss potential, IMO.


As you said, to each (head) your own...lol.


----------



## tholt

I wrote a post regarding "Hey Now" and it was specifically because I was hearing bass vibration/distortion. It was suggested to play with ear cup rotation to mitigate this, which I did and it helped. I think there's just a certain point where the drivers physically can't cleanly move more air. If you listen to a song like that and take off your headphones while it's still playig, you can hear massive chuffing/movement from the drivers.


----------



## Litlgi74

tholt said:


> I wrote a post regarding "Hey Now" and it was specifically because I was hearing bass vibration/distortion. It was suggested to play with ear cup rotation to mitigate this, which I did and it helped. I think there's just a certain point where the drivers physically can't cleanly move more air. If you listen to a song like that and take off your headphones while it's still playig, you can hear massive chuffing/movement from the drivers.


Exactly... I guess when you hear that vibration from outside the cups and the back of the driver... that is a good sign you've got the cups to far away from your head. Right?


----------



## tholt (Jun 2, 2019)

Litlgi74 said:


> Exactly... I guess when you hear that vibration from outside the cups and the back of the driver... that is a good sign you've got the cups to far away from your head. Right?



The fix I've found was to rotate the ear cups so that there wasn't such a large air gap at the bottom between the cup and your head. Lessening what essentially amounts to a bass port was the only thing that alleviated that for me.

Changing the width of the headphone frame affects soundstaging and focus, IME.


----------



## Ayodej

Allears79 said:


> Yes, it's happening on the left driver only and it gets a bit annoying, because sometimes I listen to music just waiting for that vibration to happen... Didn't expect this.





ra990 said:


> I've experienced this very issue in the past, very annoying indeed and only in the left driver as well. Get in touch with Abyss for support, they will take care of you.



First post, yay me! I previously experienced this quite a bit with my Phi’s left can as well, regardless of cup positioning, & searched high and low trying to see if anyone had experienced the same thing. The distortion was bad almost to a right out buzzing sound. Thankfully abyss was kind enough for me to send them in and fix the issue. But now with my TC’s its almost like I’m getting a hint of the same distortion, although substantially less as I rarely notice it but I seriously hope it doesn’t get worse. Like Allears said, I too can sometimes find myself listening for it which can be distracting but since it rarely happens i tend to focus more on the music with the TC (most of the time). Wish they could find a permanent solution to it tho :/


----------



## CreditingKarma

Ayodej said:


> First post, yay me! I previously experienced this quite a bit with my Phi’s left can as well, regardless of cup positioning, & searched high and low trying to see if anyone had experienced the same thing. The distortion was bad almost to a right out buzzing sound. Thankfully abyss was kind enough for me to send them in and fix the issue. But now with my TC’s its almost like I’m getting a hint of the same distortion, although substantially less as I rarely notice it but I seriously hope it doesn’t get worse. Like Allears said, I too can sometimes find myself listening for it which can be distracting but since it rarely happens i tend to focus more on the music with the TC (most of the time). Wish they could find a permanent solution to it tho :/



I am curious why we are all only having this issue with the left driver.


----------



## tholt

CreditingKarma said:


> I am curious why we are all only having this issue with the left driver.



My thought as well. I thought the drivers were identical? Perhaps not, but weird it's happening to only one side. For anyone who sent theirs in to be repaired, did JPS say what the problem was?


----------



## drew911d

For bass response I've found the amp makes a huge difference.  At the Phx mini cons I've been able to try several amps, mostly tubes.  Most of them didn't have enough juice to control bass, let alone enough to reproduce bass.  The WA5le with upgraded tubes was the first tube amp I tried that had all the bass and more.  Microzotl 3 and one from the Walnut Dac maker was good seconds.  For solid state I like my Milo for lots of bass and now straight out of the TT2 dual XLR high power outputs.  These things need power.

I have not heard the V281, but lots of good praise for it.


----------



## buke9

CreditingKarma said:


> I am curious why we are all only having this issue with the left driver.


 And everybody switched the cables and it was still on the left side? Just curious.


----------



## CreditingKarma (Jun 3, 2019)

I switched the cables on the diana phi and the tc. It was still the left side. With the tc adjusting the gap between the pad and my head decreased the vibration but it is still there.

I will say these are still the best that I have heard. I just wish I hadn't heard them out of the auris nirvana and head trip reference. I still love them out of the liquid platinum. They are much clearer and faster than my LCD 4z was and that was amazing.

They are close to my two channel but the two channel still beats them. Then again it is $15k USD in just the speakers and amp then the onyx on top of that. With that said the abyss is a bargain when compared against top level speaker setups. I just wish I could afford a highend speaker setup. Magico m6 is my dream setup with dagostino electronics. They are a pipe dream though maybe some a3 or s3 one day.

The only bad thing about high end audio is that I think we become jaded. I jumped into headfi head first with the LCD X 2 years ago. With two channel I started with the ls50 and arcam. I remember being 21 and thinking that my Harmon kardon and mirage surround setup was totl. In some ways I wish that I had taken more time to explore from entry level to where I am now. The problem is to go higher up the chain from this point is a lot of money. I will stop my rant now  Does anyone else have similar feelings about their hifi journey??


----------



## buke9

Really weird it is only happening on one side even with driver mismatch you would think it would be a 50/50 shot as one side or the other.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Litlgi74 said:


> Wow... I've got a big head... LOL! My headband is extended fully and I still need to go out some more.
> 
> Thanks for the music suggestions... I can't find Beethoven 9th, 2nd movement on Tidal... might you be able to help? But London Grammar's Hey Now is absolutely fantastic... Soundstage... Soundstage... Soundstage! Not to mention the absolute clarity.
> 
> ...




You might want to try bending the arms out a bit. I did and I made a huge difference in fit. It leaves a small gap under the ear and the bass improved alot. I have a really big head too I guess i wear them totally open and with them slightly bent. It is scary to bend them that first time. Do it bit by bit the elastic does seem to pull the arm back together a bit too.


----------



## astrostar59

CreditingKarma said:


> I switched the cables on the diana phi and the tc. It was still the left side. With the tc adjusting the gap between the pad and my head decreased the vibration but it is still there.
> 
> I will say these are still the best that I have heard. I just wish I hadn't heard them out of the auris nirvana and head trip reference. I still love them out of the liquid platinum. They are much clearer and faster than my LCD 4z was and that was amazing.
> 
> ...



Some good points here. My own journey has been a bit of a roller coaster up until the last 2 years. IMO you need to find the right gear, then end game is possible and halt the outflow of cash. I am now fully end game.


----------



## tholt

CreditingKarma said:


> The problem is to go higher up the chain from this point is a lot of money. I will stop my rant now Does anyone else have similar feelings about their hifi journey??



I think everyone does to a certain extent. There is a point of diminishing returns.

For 2 channel systems, room treatment is oft overlooked and not only a huge elephant in the room, one of the more cost-effective issues to fix. For headphones, I've found its synergy, particularly with Abyss. They're so clean, resolute and neutral that the upstream gear needs to play well with that.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jun 6, 2019)

CreditingKarma said:


> You might want to try bending the arms out a bit. I did and I made a huge difference in fit. It leaves a small gap under the ear and the bass improved alot. I have a really big head too I guess i wear them totally open and with them slightly bent. It is scary to bend them that first time. Do it bit by bit the elastic does seem to pull the arm back together a bit too.


I did bend the arms just a bit... I found that even if you extend (without bending) the arm to their widest point... The o-rings tend to pull them back in.

I am curious why, if the bass port is so necessary... why Abyss hasn't designed pads with a built in port of their own. Just an idea.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Litlgi74 said:


> I did bend the arms just a bit... I found that even if you extend (without bending) the arm to their widest point... The o-rings tend to pull them back in.
> 
> I am curious why, if the bass port is so necessary... why Abyss hasn't designed pads with a built in port of their own. Just an idea.




Someone has plans for a 3d printed spacer


----------



## Litlgi74

CreditingKarma said:


> Someone has plans for a 3d printed spacer


Well I'd be interested in that for sure!


----------



## CreditingKarma

Litlgi74 said:


> Well I'd be interested in that for sure!




I will try to find the link and post it here.


----------



## isquirrel

fredfung28 said:


> Long time not seeing you post something, and nice to know your thoughts about Tc! I tried mysphere and finds that the imaging, warmth and texture of mysphere is very good, however other aspects are a bit not up to the standard that I want comparing to abyss. I have the phi with cc pad and I am very satisfied with it other than the little harshness in the mid.
> 
> May I know what is the change of the mid comparing to the phi cc? Does it add some thickness in it or it refines more?



The mid range is the largest change between the TC and the Phi CC, power everything else is cleaner and considerably more Transparent. Think LCD-4z level of mid range but sweeter, more emotion and greater transparency. Same as for the Susvara. AS they have more hours on them they are getting sweeter through the mids and the bass is extending further (which I didn't think was possible). The TC is easily the largest change to Abyss Headphones.

However you must listen to a pair preferably with an amp/DAC combination that will allow them to shine. I am planning on trying them through my Mojo this weekend to see how that  performs. They seem easier to drive.

Hope this helps, happy to answer any more questions.


----------



## mulder01

Litlgi74 said:


> I did bend the arms just a bit... I found that even if you extend (without bending) the arm to their widest point... The o-rings tend to pull them back in.
> 
> I am curious why, if the bass port is so necessary... why Abyss hasn't designed pads with a built in port of their own. Just an idea.


Bass is a matter of taste, and this way the response is customizable.  No real advantage in making it fixed.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jun 7, 2019)

mulder01 said:


> Bass is a matter of taste, and this way the response is customizable.  No real advantage in making it fixed.



Very true... but I am glad that someone else is thinking about building a spacer. This would be a win-win for me. The bass the way I like it all the time... as well as trading the sloppy "floating" fit for something a little more secure.


----------



## Litlgi74

CreditingKarma said:


> I will try to find the link and post it here.


Is this the link you spoke about?

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2930056


----------



## CreditingKarma

Litlgi74 said:


> Is this the link you spoke about?
> 
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2930056



That is it. I don't have a 3d printer so I can't make it. It would be great if abyss sold something like this. Maybe I can find someone near me that has a printer and can make one. I would like to try it with the dekoni fenstrated audeze pads.


----------



## jlbrach

isquirrel said:


> The mid range is the largest change between the TC and the Phi CC, power everything else is cleaner and considerably more Transparent. Think LCD-4z level of mid range but sweeter, more emotion and greater transparency. Same as for the Susvara. AS they have more hours on them they are getting sweeter through the mids and the bass is extending further (which I didn't think was possible). The TC is easily the largest change to Abyss Headphones.
> 
> However you must listen to a pair preferably with an amp/DAC combination that will allow them to shine. I am planning on trying them through my Mojo this weekend to see how that  performs. They seem easier to drive.
> 
> Hope this helps, happy to answer any more questions.



you are going to drive the TC with the mojo?????


----------



## CreditingKarma

jlbrach said:


> you are going to drive the TC with the mojo?????


 

I actually drove it with the ALO CV5 ( the cv5 was at full volume ) but it did work and sounded decent. Still no where near as good as the liquid platinum.


----------



## Zhanming057

On my trip to Amsterdam I had the chance of demoing the Abyss 1266 Phi CC/TC with the newest version of Airtight's acclaimed ATM300 at https://www.headphoneauditions.nl/. Big thanks to Stefan for offering me time on the amp and cans. His Amsterdam-based shop is one of the most impressive showrooms I've been to in the world, and has a wonderful selection of high end head-fi and 2-channel gear (Airtight, Abyss, Audio Technica, etc.).

Airtight has been offering some variant of the ATM 300 since the 80s, and this version involves component upgrades as well as utilizing Takatsuki's excellent TA-300 tubes. I have tried an older version of the amp in Japan with the K1000 and HE6, but this is the first time I got to run one with an Abyss can. Directly out of the Dave + Mscalar, which pairs quite well with most 300b amps, the ATM300 is such a massive step up from a kitted out WA5 that they barely sound like they run on the same power tube. It's unquestionably a 300b amp, but extremely nimble by the standards of any tube design, well controlled, and pulls no punches on the bass end. The signature negotiates a delicate balance between Manley's aggresiveness and mild coarseness with the slightly meandering signature of the WA5.

I should mention that it is critical that the headphones be directly hooked up to the taps of the ATM300: using the Hifiman adapter destroys the signature. The amp itself is physically not powerful enough to permanently damage the Abyss TC short of catastrophic power failures and, if you dig into the ratings, delivers only marginally more max power than the WA5's highest gain mode. You are paying a lot of money for only 10-ish usable watts of power, and as a speaker amp it's no good unless you run particularly efficient speakers. For driving headphones, though, this is pretty much the very pinnacle of tube amps. Short of true super-exotics (Thrax) the ATM 300 is about as good as 300b gets, all of the upside with very little of the downside. 

The level of performance here stresses a simple fact: at summit-fi levels there is little point in buying a dedicated headphone amp. Between the ATM300 and amps such as the Nagra Classic INT and CH Precision I1, there's not much of a reason to go for a WA33e or Viva Egoista. Especially when the other side is more versatile _and_ has better fit and finish. Comparing the polish of the ATM300 to a Manley 300b is basically like comparing Kumitate labs to JH Audio.

Stefan wanted me to mention that he offers small-group evening audition sessions from 9pm to midnight, with your choice of liquor (Japanese whisky, wine, G&T's), for *150 euros for up to 3 people*, deductible on any purchase of 1,000 euros or above. I took advantage of this and while it's not cheap, you get access to an amazing selection of gear, with no pressure to buy, and the opportunity to chat over drinks with Stefan, who is extremely knowledgable and just a great guy to be around with.


----------



## isquirrel (Jun 9, 2019)

jlbrach said:


> you are going to drive the TC with the mojo?????


Not all the time ! I just want to see how it fares.

PS:  Mojo was a waste of time, it did produce some volume but not nearly enough grunt to drive the TC's.


----------



## isquirrel (Jun 9, 2019)

That Air Tight Amp looks good. I must see if I can get a Demo of one of those in Australia. Can you explain how you hook up the Abyss to the speaker taps please? A diagram would be very useful

Did you get a chance to hear the ATM 300R? Do you know what the price is in Euro's?

Thank you

PS: Price for the ATM-300R is $19,950 USD with the Takatsuki's, I wonder if you can use the Tak 274B instead of the 5U4G it should sound a lot better. I am very tempted by your report thank you!


----------



## Zhanming057

isquirrel said:


> That Air Tight Amp looks good. I must see if I can get a Demo of one of those in Australia. Can you explain how you hook up the Abyss to the speaker taps please? A diagram would be very useful



You use an adapter like the one below. The standard 4 pin XLR pinout corresponds to the two channels on the amp.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Hi All -

I am going to be demoing the XI Formula S and Powerman with my Abyss TC next week.

Currently, I have been using it primarily with my Chord Dave direct m, which I really like. That said, I certainly think it would benefit from some headroom on softer tracks and am curious if the sonic advantages out weight any loss in transparency.

I have tried my Abyss numerous times with my Violectric V281, and IMHO, I don’t think it’s the ideal pairing. I don’t know if it’s reduced transparency or being slightly rolled off, but my primary complaint is a perceived reduction in treble quality.

I do love my LCD 4 with the V281. If I do buy the Formula S and Powerman, ultimately I’d like the ability to sell that amp. That said, from the little I’ve found comparing the Formula S with the V281, there is a preference for the V281 with the LCD4 (maybe I’ll have to keep both).

DAC is Chord Dave, and while I prefer the Abyss direct, I prefer the LCD4 through the amp - even though DAVE is powerful enough for it.

I will also be demoing a Focal Utopia both with my Dave direct and through the Formula S. I had demod it in my previous set up, and didn’t love it. But it was running through the V281 and the Yggy and experiences similar issues that the Abyss does through the V281. I listened to it at CanJam briefly via Dave direct, and it sounded like a different headphone - but I need more time.

I probably won’t buy both, but then again, I never thought I’d buy a Dave. Or an Abyss. Looking for opinions for those who have impressions with my equipment - and anything I should look for.

Lastly, I prefer using Dave as a preamp and completely opening the volume pot of my amp in order to be able to use remote volume control. Based on my new headphone listening lounge, this is not a deal breaker, but a nice to have. Is the Formula S quiet with the Abyss, for instance, when volume is completely open - and are there any idiosyncrasies that might rear their head while using it in this manner? This is how I use my 009 and Carbon and it works great.

Thanks for any feedback that can be provided. Especially interested in Formula S with it without Powerman, and Formula S with LCD 4. If I end up with the Utopia as well, would look to cut costs somewhere (maybe). I also have a Clear, which I love, so Utopia May be overkill given my other headphones, but overkill is what this hobby is about!

Thanks in advance for your feedback! Excited to try some new gear!


----------



## Drewligarchy

One additional note. For those who have an M-Scaler, how does it compare in terms of the upgrades I’ve described. I listened to it with DAVE at CanJam, and to my surprise, the difference was obvious - even in a show environment for a short period of time. Specifically, I noticed more detail - but didn’t have enough time with it to evaluate all of its positive attributes compared to Dacs as a standalone.

I don’t feel wanting for anythiing from a DAC perspective, and can’t demo the m scaler in home, so haven’t focused on that. But other opinions on Dave - M scaler as well - and specifically if improvements come through on my Abyss TC and other headphones (009, LCD4, Clear and potentially Utopia) would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Zhanming057

Drewligarchy said:


> Hi All -
> 
> I am going to be demoing the XI Formula S and Powerman with my Abyss TC next week.
> 
> ...



Have you considered speaker amps? You can find modern Accuphase in the right voltage for the price of the Formula S+Powerman. Specifically for the TC there are also Anthem, Line Magnetic 845's, or Pass Labs Integrateds in the $4,000-5,000 range.

There are more exotic solid state options that will also outperform the Formula S (Nagra MSA, Esoteric) but being in NYC you might be able to demo those as well. If you have the Dave, you have the freedom to shop for power amps and use the Dave as the volume control. The Utopia doesn't work well with most speaker amps, but I find the Formula S too hot for the Uto's as well, they're probably the best right out the Dave unless you run them off a CS600 or Viva 2a3.


----------



## The Piper

Zhanming057 said:


> Have you considered speaker amps? You can find modern Accuphase in the right voltage for the price of the Formula S+Powerman. Specifically for the TC there are also Anthem, Line Magnetic 845's, or Pass Labs Integrateds in the $4,000-5,000 range.
> 
> There are more exotic solid state options that will also outperform the Formula S (Nagra MSA, Esoteric) but being in NYC you might be able to demo those as well. If you have the Dave, you have the freedom to shop for power amps and use the Dave as the volume control. The Utopia doesn't work well with most speaker amps, but I find the Formula S too hot for the Uto's as well, they're probably the best right out the Dave unless you run them off a CS600 or Viva 2a3.


The Headtrip II.


----------



## simorag (Jun 15, 2019)

Drewligarchy said:


> I am going to be demoing the XI Formula S and Powerman with my Abyss TC next week.
> 
> Currently, I have been using it primarily with my Chord Dave direct m, which I really like. That said, I certainly think it would benefit from some headroom on softer tracks and am curious if the sonic advantages out weight any loss in transparency.



Hi, you can find some detailed impressions about DAVE direct vs. DAVE with Formula S + Powerman when driving the AB-1266 in this post.

With respect to when I wrote that post, several changes have occurred in my system, including high end RCA interconnects to the Formula S, an high end power cable for the Powerman, an upgrade to the (slightly less efficient) AB-1266 TC, and the addition of the Hugo M Scaler to my DAVE ("stealing" 3dB of headroom).
In my present configuration, I use / prefer the Formula S in 90% of situations, as the transparency loss compared to DAVE direct is generally very small now (at least to my ears), and the bonus from the superior drive capabilities of the XI Audio is very enjoyable especially for large scale orchestral and very crowded and dynamic musical passages.




Drewligarchy said:


> Lastly, I prefer using Dave as a preamp and completely opening the volume pot of my amp in order to be able to use remote volume control. Based on my new headphone listening lounge, this is not a deal breaker, but a nice to have. Is the Formula S quiet with the Abyss, for instance, when volume is completely open - and are there any idiosyncrasies that might rear their head while using it in this manner?



I use my combo like you describe, except I do not need to turn the Formula S volume to max, because with DAVE at 0dB (-3dB without M Scaler) I reach painful volume levels with the Formula S at h16. Anyway, I just made a trial for the sake of curiosity and to my ears the Formula S is totally quiet at max volume with the AB-1266 .



Drewligarchy said:


> For those who have an M-Scaler, how does it compare in terms of the upgrades I’ve described.



The Hugo M Scaler (HMS) is a tremendous upgrade over the DAVE, in my experience. It changes its sound signature for the best in all possible respects by a substantial amount.
In my upgrade path, the HMS has been one of the most successful steps.

Purely in terms of sound quality, the HMS improvement has been more apparent to me than adding the Formula S.

However, depending on your listening preferences (music types, loudness levels) and hearing sensitivity, you will most likely need an amp to exploit the AB-1266 TC at full, especially with the HMS in place.

I am currently looking to sell my Formula S / Powerman combo - while being perfectly happy with it -  to move to speaker amps (see @Zhanming057 post above). In my case, this is because I am looking to get a single amp for both speakers and headphones.


----------



## elan120

Zhanming057 said:


> Have you considered speaker amps? You can find modern Accuphase in the right voltage for the price of the Formula S+Powerman. Specifically for the TC there are also Anthem, Line Magnetic 845's, or Pass Labs Integrateds in the $4,000-5,000 range.
> 
> There are more exotic solid state options that will also outperform the Formula S (Nagra MSA, Esoteric) but being in NYC you might be able to demo those as well. If you have the Dave, you have the freedom to shop for power amps and use the Dave as the volume control. The Utopia doesn't work well with most speaker amps, but I find the Formula S too hot for the Uto's as well, they're probably the best right out the Dave unless you run them off a CS600 or Viva 2a3.



What would be the recommended method to connect TC to speaker amp output?  Is a speaker amp to headphone converter box required?


----------



## MacedonianHero

elan120 said:


> What would be the recommended method to connect TC to speaker amp output?  Is a speaker amp to headphone converter box required?



I wouldn't risk it...they are not the HE-6. I would just get a good desktop headphone amplifier. I'm currently reviewing them with the Benchmark HPA4 and love the combination!


----------



## simorag (Jun 16, 2019)

elan120 said:


> What would be the recommended method to connect TC to speaker amp output? Is a speaker amp to headphone converter box required?



You can use a 4pin XLR to spade or banana adapter like this, or the HiFiMan HE-Adapter (here).

The latter is a resistor box that is aimed to protecting both headphones and amp by excessive current and impedance respectively (potentially an issue for tube amplifiers). People has successfully used the HE-Adapter with the Abyss (just search this thread), but some noticed it has detrimental effects on sound quality.



MacedonianHero said:


> I wouldn't risk it...they are not the HE-6. I would just get a good desktop headphone amplifier.



I am a bit concerned to drive the TC with a speaker amp as well, and would be very interested about what are the risks by more experienced users, and ideally by @Joe Skubinski himself if he is available to chime in here (again) on this subject (I have read some of his older posts on this thread).

For example, Pass XA25, Accuphase E-650, Luxman L-590AXII are 25-30W on 8Ohms, class A amplifiers which should output around 5-8W onto the AB-1266 TC 47ohm impedance. This is similar to or lower than many powerful headphones amps (Cavalli LAu, Wells Headtrip, Viva Egoista, Moon 430HA etc.), so the risk of excessive power into the drivers should be minimal, correct?

As I understand it, for solid state amps, the XLR > banana would work fine and safe even with much more powerful (100wpc and more) amplifiers if you are careful to: a) turn to volume to zero before switching on/off the amp; b) plug in the headphones before switching on the amp if no other load is attached e.g. speakers (not necessary with most amps, but you never know ); c) increase the amp volume very gradually especially if your amplifier is very powerful. Am I right?

The 2 channel high-end market is much more mature and competitive than the headphones market, and has much higher selling numbers, hence I tend to believe that the best speaker amplifiers in the 5-10kEuro range could be simply put _better amps_ compared to headphones amps in the same price range, _generally speaking_. Again, am I missing something? Is there something special in the design of an HP amp compared to a speaker amp which could make a case for HP amps against speaker amps in the context of a demanding headphone like the AB-1266 TC?

You experts out there, please educate me! Thanks in advance for your time


----------



## Zhanming057

MacedonianHero said:


> I wouldn't risk it...they are not the HE-6. I would just get a good desktop headphone amplifier. I'm currently reviewing them with the Benchmark HPA4 and love the combination!



What's the risk with a speaker amp that only puts out less than 50 watts into 4 ohms?

Summit fi speaker amps are much more robustly built than summit fi headphone amps, and most high end tube amps don't have the juice needed to physically damage the TC. 

The HPA4 is nowhere near as good as a high end soldi state integrated amp. The difference is huge in terms of energy delivery and control.


----------



## Zhanming057

elan120 said:


> What would be the recommended method to connect TC to speaker amp output?  Is a speaker amp to headphone converter box required?



Don't use the box unless you have a reason to believe that the amp you're using can put more than 15w through 80 ohms. Bare wire adapter  is the best.


----------



## kelvinwsy

It is more than power rating and current .. there is excessive gain which needs attenuation.
1. I hv the abyss 1266 phi cc, he560, hd800, Final sonorous VI.
2. I use the Audionote Quest Silver 300b monoblock amps (High Gain )
3. I use the Hifiman resistor box and aiqin tube adapter box to connect my HPs! Inside are a 2ohm resistor parallel across live (+) and return(-)and a 6 ohm resistor in series with the live wire!
4. I also use Vichnay wirewound resistors with direct connection to the HPs on my new Krell clone amps
in this case 25watt 10ohm resistors
This makes the amp see the abyss as a 8 ohm load! 
I use this on my two KSA 50 8 watt class A clone amps. 
It does not work for my Audionote 300 b .. too much gain . I get less than 15 % range on the volume and while the Ab1266 and He560 are 85-88 dba/milliwatt , my Hd800 is unusable as it is 100pluss sensitivity.. 
So hv to use the Hifiman resistor box..
The Sonorous Vi is so sensitive it cannot be usef even with the resistor box ..! Purely for my Pioneer XDP300R DAP
So depends on the gain of your amp
Kelvin


----------



## kelvinwsy

And the sensitivity of your HPs


----------



## Litlgi74

Zhanming057 said:


> What's the risk with a speaker amp that only puts out less than 50 watts into 4 ohms?
> 
> Summit fi speaker amps are much more robustly built than summit fi headphone amps, and most high end tube amps don't have the juice needed to physically damage the TC.
> 
> The HPA4 is nowhere near as good as a high end soldi state integrated amp. The difference is huge in terms of energy delivery and control.


Which Anthem are you suggesting?


----------



## Zhanming057

Litlgi74 said:


> Which Anthem are you suggesting?



The STR is the one that I've heard. Very happy with results on my Phi's.


----------



## Litlgi74

Zhanming057 said:


> The STR is the one that I've heard. Very happy with results on my Phi's.


Love Anthem and Paradigm gear... My Anthem D2V is quite an incredible processor... But the price of the STR is quite steep when you consider Anthem's previous integrated was less than half the price.


----------



## elan120

simorag said:


> You can use a 4pin XLR to spade or banana adapter like this, or the HiFiMan HE-Adapter (here).
> 
> The latter is a resistor box that is aimed to protecting both headphones and amp by excessive current and impedance respectively (potentially an issue for tube amplifiers). People has successfully used the HE-Adapter with the Abyss (just search this thread), but some noticed it has detrimental effects on sound quality.





Zhanming057 said:


> Don't use the box unless you have a reason to believe that the amp you're using can put more than 15w through 80 ohms. Bare wire adapter is the best.



Thank you for the information.  I have been thinking about explore the idea of using a speaker amp for a short while, and this will help open up the possibilities.


----------



## tholt

simorag said:


> You can use a 4pin XLR to spade or banana adapter like this, or the HiFiMan HE-Adapter (here).



Thanks for the link to the XLR adapter.

What are the things one looks for in a speaker amp to ensure compatibility and safety with the Abyss? Are you paying attention to particular specs of the amp? Any advantages tube vs SS? I'm sort of in the market for a new amp so this has me intrigued for sure.


----------



## simorag

tholt said:


> Thanks for the link to the XLR adapter.
> 
> What are the things one looks for in a speaker amp to ensure compatibility and safety with the Abyss? Are you paying attention to particular specs of the amp? Any advantages tube vs SS? I'm sort of in the market for a new amp so this has me intrigued for sure.



Hello, we are on the same boat then! I am no expert about electronics, so I am afraid I cannot be helpful here, and rather prefer to reinforce your question with my very same one 

I have a pair of LS3/5a which I would like to drive as well with the same amp used for the AB-1266 TC, so I was thinking that class A amps in the 25-35W region, and with a mildly warmer-than-neutral signature would suit well both TC and my loudspeakers. Another one I am considering in addition to my previous list would be the Sugden A21SE Signature, for example.

I am very fascinated by speaker tube amps both sonically and aesthetically , but I am most likely going to stay in the SS camp for practicality reasons, mainly related to limited space and ventilation on my rack (see below) and to avoid the need of long-ish warm-up for best sound at every listening session.


​
Also, based on my limited understanding of this matter, I have got the idea by reading contributions of more knowledgeable guys in this forum that the pairing of headphones with SS speaker amps is less prone to catastrophic misuse (?).

By the way, there is a dedicated thread about driving headphones with speaker amps here on Head-fi, but there are limited _recent _info specifically for the AB-1266.


----------



## tholt

simorag said:


> By the way, there is a dedicated thread about driving headphones with speaker amps here on Head-fi, but there are limited _recent _info specifically for the AB-1266.



Thank you. I found that thread as well and was poring over it last night. Many there use resistors and other devices to help with impedance matching and helping the amp see a friendlier load (from what I gather) but I'm no expert either. From what I understand, the Abyss is a better match for speaker amps in general bc one can get a fuller range in the volume knob vs higher sensitivity headphones.

I'm hoping for a plug n play solution: speaker amp > 4 pin XLR/banana plug adapter > Abyss. I believe many do just as I described so just I am curious as to what to look for before I go shopping!


----------



## kelvinwsy

While I am no expert, I hv played around with speaker amps to drive my HPs for a few years now! 
It started with me getting a HD800 to add to my all tube speaker system ..  45 tube preamp.. 300b monoblocs.. and full range horn speakers. 
i got the LH Labs Geek Pulse to drive my HD800.
warm sound but Meh... SQ!
So the research led me to Robinette's Speaker Resistor box. 
Found on Ebay Aiqin tube amp HP adapter
Just connect to your speaker taps and hook up your HP. It is Single ended 6.35mm and 3.5mm
So i got 2 of them . One for each monobloc.. Diy my own 4pin XLR wire braid and hey it sounds much better than the Geek Pulse DAC/Hp amp
The Amp ideally should be 5-8 watts at 8 ohms gain at say 12-18. 
I found the high gain on my AN 300b a little too high so added a10watt 25ohm vishnay wirewound resistor for my HD800. 
I picked up a Hifiman HE560 and it was fine just with the aiqin box w/o the 20 ohm resistor box!
The hifiman resistor box was on 10% off in ebay so i picked it up.. More transparent than the 2 Aiqin boxes.
Last month i picked up a Abyss 1266 phi/cc and it was fine with the Hifiman box w/o the 10 watt resistor!
Picked up 2 Krell Clone KSA 5 HP amps on Aliexpress! these hv 8 watt 8 ohm speaker taps as well as 6.35mm SE hp jacks
So 2 amps i put the spare 10 watt resistor across the +ve and -ve of 1 channel on each amp.. use them as monoblocks.. Connect my Diy wire 4pin xlr wire braid and my Abyss and i get wonderful class A 8 watt output.. volume at 40 -45% full rotation done!!
Upgraded to Danacable Reference!! It is a great cable..


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## kelvinwsy

Oh the question  on which is better SQ. 
1. Bare speaker taps with or w/o 10 ohm resistor.. same SQ... Best SQ
2. Hifiman bix next
3. Aiqin box
4. ifi idsd micro
5.?Geek Pulse last in SQ


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## kelvinwsy

Aiqin resistor box with 2x mono 6.35 mm jacks to 4 pin XLR plug

10watt 25ohm resistor in parallel ov +ve and -ve speaker taps on Krell KSA5 clone amps used as monoblocs


Hifiman Resistor box with AN 300b tube monoblocs


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## kelvinwsy

Hifiman Reistor box 
Audionote Quest Silver AN300 b tube monoblocs


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## kelvinwsy

Puctures missed


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## kelvinwsy

Aiqin resistor box 2x mono 6.35mm to 4 pin XLR


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## kelvinwsy

10watt resistor in oarallel


----------



## jlbrach

tholt said:


> Thank you. I found that thread as well and was poring over it last night. Many there use resistors and other devices to help with impedance matching and helping the amp see a friendlier load (from what I gather) but I'm no expert either. From what I understand, the Abyss is a better match for speaker amps in general bc one can get a fuller range in the volume knob vs higher sensitivity headphones.
> 
> I'm hoping for a plug n play solution: speaker amp > 4 pin XLR/banana plug adapter > Abyss. I believe many do just as I described so just I am curious as to what to look for before I go shopping!



no reason to use a speaker amp with the TC...use a HP amp like the Formula S which as actually developed for use with the TC or other planars...I do not understand this obsession with speaker amps and HP's....the inconvenience alone makes it a no go for me


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## Zhanming057

jlbrach said:


> no reason to use a speaker amp with the TC...use a HP amp like the Formula S which as actually developed for use with the TC or other planars...I do not understand this obsession with speaker amps and HP's....the inconvenience alone makes it a no go for me



Have you tried the TCs with a good speaker amp? 

The Formula S is not exactly close to the performance frontier of real, high end solid state speaker amps such as those from CH, Nagra and Spectral.


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## cj3209

Zhanming057 said:


> Have you tried the TCs with a good speaker amp?
> 
> The Formula S is not exactly close to the performance frontier of real, high end solid state speaker amps such as those from CH, Nagra and Spectral.


I would tend to agree with @jlbrach; I can't imagine the performance gains from using a speaker amp outweighing the costs and inconvenience.


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## CreditingKarma

cj3209 said:


> I would tend to agree with @jlbrach; I can't imagine the performance gains from using a speaker amp outweighing the costs and inconvenience.



I have a hegel h360 and am interested to hear the abyss with it but hesitant as well it pushes 250watts into 8ohms. I am currently using them with a liquid platinum and they sound darn good with that and it comes in at $769. I am a bit jealous of you pavane  I have the onyx currently and really like it. Have you compared the two. The onyx is great with my two channel setup. I am just worried about the future of metrum with the new ownership.


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## jlbrach

i have my HP system on the table next to my bed in the bedroom...zero chance a speaker amp is going to be a couple of feet from my head as i sleep lol....nor is there room!


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## jlbrach

I have a mcintosh 452 speaker amp in my living room...it weighs a million pounds and is huge....I am sure it or something similar could if set up properly sound outstanding but who in the world would want to arrange such a thing?....I am quite pleased with my formula s and powerman and if somebody tells me it is possible for a speaker amp to sound even better i will take there word for it but it aint happening in my situation


----------



## MacedonianHero

Zhanming057 said:


> What's the risk with a speaker amp that only puts out less than 50 watts into 4 ohms?
> 
> Summit fi speaker amps are much more robustly built than summit fi headphone amps, and most high end tube amps don't have the juice needed to physically damage the TC.
> 
> The HPA4 is nowhere near as good as a high end soldi state integrated amp. The difference is huge in terms of energy delivery and control.



Yeah, I'm gonna call that out as simply not true with the Abyss Phi TC...plus as mentioned, you will run the risk of blowing out your drivers. I'm not a fan of tubes typically with orthos as they lack the ability to supply the higher currents that they need to sound their best. That said, the WA33 is one heck of an amp with these cans!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Zhanming057 said:


> Have you tried the TCs with a good speaker amp?
> 
> The Formula S is not exactly close to the performance frontier of real, high end solid state speaker amps such as those from CH, Nagra and Spectral.



I have tried the HE_6s with top flight speaker amps...and nothing really special compared to a great headphone amp.  And those headphones were quite a bit harder to drive too! And many owners who used speaker amps ended up blowing their drivers as a result.


----------



## cj3209

CreditingKarma said:


> ...I am a bit jealous of you pavane  I have the onyx currently and really like it. Have you compared the two. The onyx is great with my two channel setup. I am just worried about the future of metrum with the new ownership.


lol...
I'm jealous of your Onyx as I spent quite a bit of change getting the Pavane; I probably should have just got the Onyx...the Pavane does sound awesome but probably not worth double the price!


----------



## Thenewguy007

MacedonianHero said:


> I have tried the HE_6s with top flight speaker amps...and nothing really special compared to a great headphone amp.  And those headphones were quite a bit harder to drive too! And many owners who used speaker amps ended up blowing their drivers as a result.



I think I read of one person blowing up their headphone drivers in the HE-6 thread.


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## kelvinwsy

You got to hear a planar on a high end tube amp!


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## kelvinwsy

Tube Rolling is fun too


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## llamaluv (Jun 17, 2019)

And just as a reminder, not all speaker amps are gigantic. The Benchmark AHB2 comes to mind, which occupies like half the volume of a GS-X mk2 (and it also has lower-than-normal gain settings for a speaker amp, to boot). Or any number of class D amps, of course.

These days, I'm very partial to speaker amps for hard-to-drive planars. During the time that I had the Phi, I had it paired with a WA33 and a GS-X mk2, and liked it, but didn't love it. I've never heard the Abyss on a good speaker amp, but now I'd very much like to...


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## Zhanming057 (Jun 17, 2019)

MacedonianHero said:


> Yeah, I'm gonna call that out as simply not true with the Abyss Phi TC...plus as mentioned, you will run the risk of blowing out your drivers. I'm not a fan of tubes typically with orthos as they lack the ability to supply the higher currents that they need to sound their best. That said, the WA33 is one heck of an amp with these cans!



Which summit fi speaker amps have you heard with the TC's? I wouldn't knock what I'm not familiar with. I've heard a couple WA33e's, with and without the fully tricked out tubes, with various DAC's, on the Abyss Phi's.

None can even touch an ATM300 or the Nagra Classic INT, just to give two examples, in terms of driving the Phi's, period.

The thing is, there's no difference between a tube speaker amp and a tube headphone amp. The WA5 functions exactly identically to the ATM300 when it comes to operating the power tubes. The difference is that Airtight has been improving on their design for 40 years, and uses the absolute best components available to build price-no-object amps. Woo simply does not have access to a parts bin at that level of quality.

Finally, you simply can't blow an Abyss driver on a 300b/quad 2a3 design because the tubes are not capable of dumping out enough power to permanently damage the drivers. As a very general rule of thumb, it would take an amp capable of delivering 30-40w of power into 4 ohms to have a chance at getting 5w into 50 ohms, which the Abyss can handle very healthily. It's even better with the Susvara which can handle 10w into the drivers. High end speaker amps are also extensively protected at the output end as conventional dynamic speaker driver have much less headroom above listening volume than planar drivers. If you trust an amp to not blow out $15k high-sensitivity desktop speakers, you should also trust it to not blow out a pair of headphones rated in the same max wattage range. 



MacedonianHero said:


> I have tried the HE_6s with top flight speaker amps...and nothing really special compared to a great headphone amp.  And those headphones were quite a bit harder to drive too! And many owners who used speaker amps ended up blowing their drivers as a result.



The HE6 is hard to drive. That doesn't mean that it's a great pair of headphones. 

The highest end modern designs - the TC and Susvara - benefit more from better amps because they are better headphones, and are more resolving of the source's flaws. The HE6 isn't revelatory because you can drive an OG 1266 with an RP030 and it'll sound better than the HE6 on just about any amp. That's not the speaker amp's problem


----------



## MacedonianHero

Thenewguy007 said:


> I think I read of one person blowing up their headphone drivers in the HE-6 thread.



There was certainly more than just one.


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## MacedonianHero (Jun 17, 2019)

Zhanming057 said:


> Which summit fi speaker amps have you heard with the TC's? I wouldn't knock what I'm not familiar with. I've heard a couple WA33e's, with and without the fully tricked out tubes, with various DAC's, on the Abyss Phi's.
> 
> None can even touch an ATM300 or the Nagra Classic INT, just to give two examples, in terms of driving the Phi's, period.
> 
> ...



Please look at my history here...this isn't my first rodeo.  I've had the same discussion on the HE-6 thread. I've heard everything from Krell, to McIntosh, Pass Labs, Naim, Nagra, Mark Levinson, etc... Remember these are headphones and NOT speakers. The right tool for the right job. Remember P = V*I. There isn't much magic to play with that equation and that's why I'd recommend a more substantial investment in your source. A properly designed headphone amp is the best choice IMO and IME for these headphones. Plus a few folks have already blown out their Abyss drivers and many more on the HE_6 thread. So good luck with that (and a voided warranty).


----------



## Zhanming057

MacedonianHero said:


> Please look at my history here...this isn't my first rodeo.  I've had the same discussion on the HE-6 thread. I've heard everything from Krell, to McIntosh, Pass Labs, Naim, Nagra, Mark Levinson, etc... Remember these are headphones and NOT speakers. The right tool for the right job. Remember P = V*I. There isn't much magic to play with that equation and that's why I'd recommend a more substantial investment in your source. A properly designed headphone amp is the best choice IMO and IME for these headphones. Plus a few folks have already blown out their Abyss drivers and many more on the HE_6 thread. So good luck with that (and a voided warranty).



You've heard all of them on the Abyss Phi/CC/TC? I go to two channel stores, with my own desktop DAC, specifically for the purpose of testing the Abyss and other headphones I own. Please tell me which speaker amps have you tried with an Abyss can. I only comment on amp/headphone pairings that I have tried. 

I would trust a 500w amp with good protection from Bryston much more readily than a 40w Wells Headtrip with its poor protective circuitry. If headphone amp makers used the same high quality components and designed their amps to be as robust as the best 2 channel players, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But they don't, and regardless of whether this is because of economies of scale, or because head-fi is a young field, or because too many makers get by with snake oil, but that is unfortunately the case. If you're happy with a Formula S or a WA5, that's fine, those are excellent amps. But if you want to truly experience the best there is to offer - cost, size, weight not being a part of the equation - then speaker amps are where it's at.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Zhanming057 said:


> You've heard all of them on the Abyss Phi/CC/TC? I go to two channel stores, with my own desktop DAC, specifically for the purpose of testing the Abyss and other headphones I own. Please tell me which speaker amps have you tried with an Abyss can. I only comment on amp/headphone pairings that I have tried.
> 
> I would trust a 500w amp with good protection from Bryston much more readily than a 40w Wells Headtrip with its poor protective circuitry. If headphone amp makers used the same high quality components and designed their amps to be as robust as the best 2 channel players, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But they don't, and regardless of whether this is because of economies of scale, or because head-fi is a young field, or because too many makers get by with snake oil, but that is unfortunately the case. If you're happy with a Formula S or a WA5, that's fine, those are excellent amps. But if you want to truly experience the best there is to offer - cost, size, weight not being a part of the equation - then speaker amps are where it's at.



I think we’re talking past each other a bit. As I said, good luck with your speaker amps and your drivers (and voided warranty). Run the numbers on what is needed for these headphones...you are simply pushing too much power into them as some of the headphone amps you mentioned will blow out your eardrums. I’m not sure why you want more?

As well, look to your source, imo more important than your speaker amps.


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## CreditingKarma

While I have not heard the abyss on a speaker amp I have heard it with the wells headtrip reference. It sounded incredible with this set up being fed by a Dave. I have only heard the raal sr1a driven with a speaker amp. It was with the hegel h20 power amp fed by a Dave and mscaler. It was damn good. Then I heard it driven with a dagostino momentum integrated and it blew the hegel away as it should it is close to $45,000 vs #5k for the hegel. I am not sure how the abyss would sound driven by the dagostino but I am most likely not going to take a chance with blowing the drivers on mine.

 Maybe some one is crazy enough to try driving it with the D'agostino relentless mono blocks.


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## Zhanming057

MacedonianHero said:


> I think we’re talking past each other a bit. As I said, good luck with your speaker amps and your drivers (and voided warranty). Run the numbers on what is needed for these headphones...you are simply pushing too much power into them as some of the headphone amps you mentioned will blow out your eardrums. I’m not sure why you want more?
> 
> As well, look to your source, imo more important than your speaker amps.



You're dodging the question - if you have not tried the TC/CC with a true TOTL speaker amp and don't know how risky driving the TC is relative to, say, AL-05 compacts - then you cannot speak as to how good, or safe, the practice is. I test amps on the highest end DAC I can find at the moment - in stores near me, this means the Nagra Classic DAC. If I'm out of town I can usually source a Dave/Mscalar or an Alpha DAC Reference. 

I've never blown a driver nor heard of anyone using good, high end speaker amps that blew a driver on any headphone. I would trust a 10w headphone amp with no protection much less than a 100w speaker amp with multiple layers of voltage protection. No amp is completely risk-free - component failures or a board short can fry any headphone on any amp hooked up to the wall. But building amps as if user error is a common problem - as speaker amp builders usually do - is a good thing. It's not a matter of power but a matter of component selection, build quality and design. 

Just to reiterate, for those who might not be following the conversation. Specific to the Abyss Phi/Phi TC:

- Is there a risk of blowing up the headphones on a speaker amp? *Yes, for very powerful amps. *There is zero concern with running most 300b/2a3/EL84 based tube amps and most solid state amps with less than 50w of rated output into 4 ohms. 

- What if you want to use an extremely powerful amp and is concerned about wattage? There are transformer-based adapter boxes that are less detrimental to sound quality than the Hifiman box. *Don't use the Hifiman box if at all possible*. If you have a good, modern speaker amp, the amp should go into protection long before it has a chance to blow up your headphones. 

- Is it actually better? Go try it yourself! Bring your DAC and cans to an appointment with your 2 channel dealer. A cheap banana to XLR adapter costs less than $100.


----------



## simorag

Zhanming057 said:


> - Is it actually better? Go try it yourself! Bring your DAC and cans to an appointment with your 2 channel dealer. A cheap banana to XLR adapter costs less than $100.



I have mine on order and that's just what I plan to do. Actually it is much easier where I live to audition high end speaker amps than headphones amplifiers


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## Articnoise

The quality of the amplifier always trumps if it’s a dedicated headphone or speaker amp IME. I will only speak for myself, but to me here in Sweden it’s easier, and much cheaper to get a good used speaker amp than to get the same SQ from a headphone amp, at least for harder to drive headphones.


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## kelvinwsy

This is a passive impedance matching transformer
Problem in the specs with Transformers is phase shift uneven through the frequency range!
The quality of a tube amp is in the output transformers!
So nothing wrong with using Vishay Wirewound resistors.. Just making some heat as output power is dissipated.


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## kelvinwsy

Passive imp matching tranny


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## MacedonianHero

Zhanming057 said:


> You're dodging the question - if you have not tried the TC/CC with a true TOTL speaker amp and don't know how risky driving the TC is relative to, say, AL-05 compacts - then you cannot speak as to how good, or safe, the practice is. I test amps on the highest end DAC I can find at the moment - in stores near me, this means the Nagra Classic DAC. If I'm out of town I can usually source a Dave/Mscalar or an Alpha DAC Reference.
> 
> I've never blown a driver nor heard of anyone using good, high end speaker amps that blew a driver on any headphone. I would trust a 10w headphone amp with no protection much less than a 100w speaker amp with multiple layers of voltage protection. No amp is completely risk-free - component failures or a board short can fry any headphone on any amp hooked up to the wall. But building amps as if user error is a common problem - as speaker amp builders usually do - is a good thing. It's not a matter of power but a matter of component selection, build quality and design.
> 
> ...



I've tried the original version and the CC on a Pass Labs and McIntosh and nothing magical as these headphones aren't crazy to drive. I've tried the HE-6s on a Mark Levinson, but I ended up preferring a good DAC and a GS-X MK2, HPA4 or Formula S...not because they were better, but not any worse. And adding the risk of blowing out my drivers (which again has happened on more than a few occasions) was too much to justify for me.

Let's run some numbers shall we:

Based on the efficiency and impedance of the PHI TC headphones, you would need only 4.86 Volts (RMS) and 103 mA (RMS) and a grand total of 502mW to achieve 115 dB volume. Hardly requiring a 100W amp to get to these numbers.


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## rumina

my vote goes for speaker amps driving demanding magentoplanars. build myself a lot of amps and headphone amps and only my dynahi drives the two abyss and the susvara with nice authority. krell ksa5 with 5 watt is fine but not as good as 10watt + amps. no problem connect direct the headphone to the amp (beside tube amps) up to 25 watt, over that noise can be a problem and a voltage divider is a good idea.

beside that a lot of nice 10-25 watt class a amps exist that are well designed and matured over the last 20 years. you have here a lot more choices to finetune the sound you like. nelson is right when he says the first watt matters the most (or the frist 10% the amp is capable of deliver).

i use most of the time a pathos inpol remix (tube hybrid like the aic-10) or the dynahi beside having a lot of other (headphone-)amps.


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## MacedonianHero (Jun 18, 2019)

rumina said:


> my vote goes for speaker amps driving demanding magentoplanars. build myself a lot of amps and headphone amps and only my dynahi drives the two abyss and the susvara with nice authority. krell ksa5 with 5 watt is fine but not as good as 10watt + amps. no problem connect direct the headphone to the amp (beside tube amps) up to 25 watt, over that noise can be a problem and a voltage divider is a good idea.
> 
> beside that a lot of nice 10-25 watt class a amps exist that are well designed and matured over the last 20 years. you have here a lot more choices to finetune the sound you like. nelson is right when he says the first watt matters the most (or the frist 10% the amp is capable of deliver).
> 
> i use most of the time a pathos inpol remix (tube hybrid like the aic-10) or the dynahi beside having a lot of other (headphone-)amps.



I would classify the Susvara as a tough to drive, the Phi not as much by any margin. Plus, good luck with not overdriving them and blowing out your drivers. Please look at the numbers I provided...hardly daunting for a well designed headphone amp.

But hey, if that's what floats your boat...have it. But beware and protect them drivers and yer ears too.


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## rumina

but you know that the amp abyss recommend eleven audio xiaudio formula s has more then 10 watt into 4 ohm? they seem to be fine with that. you need not only look at the total watt output but also check the gain of a amp. no luck needed only math .


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## astrostar59

rumina said:


> but you know that the amp abyss recommend eleven audio xiaudio formula s has more then 10 watt into 4 ohm? they seem to be fine with that. you need not only look at the total watt output but also check the gain of a amp. no luck needed only math .



It is a lot about power reserves and dynamics, no compression. Most well designed speaker amps have big transformers and beefy power supplies. Hard to find that in most headphone amps for obvious reason. Once you get to a certain level of efficiency (low efficiency) for a HP IMO it can be better to look at speaker amps instead.


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## rumina

true good sound allways starts with a good and stable power supply, if the base is weak you can't build a nice house.


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## MacedonianHero

rumina said:


> but you know that the amp abyss recommend eleven audio xiaudio formula s has more then 10 watt into 4 ohm? they seem to be fine with that. you need not only look at the total watt output but also check the gain of a amp. no luck needed only math .



Still not a speaker amp...and it is VERY good with them, so does the WA33 (also a headphone amp).


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## rumina

whats the difference between a speaker amp and a headphone amp beside the power?


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## MacedonianHero (Jun 18, 2019)

rumina said:


> whats the difference between a speaker amp and a headphone amp beside the power?



The power ... overkill puts blowing your drivers at risk. Plus output impedance of the amp might be an issue on a couple of points. It might be too high for low impedance headphones or your might put your amp's transformers at risk by having them drive headphones that have substantially higher impedance than speakers. Depends on the amp. Again, I'm speaking for myself based on my experiences. If you like what you're hearing, then have at it (just be careful).


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## rumina

it's not the power, it's the same connecting a 100 watt amp to a 40 watt watt loudspeaker. simply don't push to hard.

it's the load, speaker amps are designed for loads between 4-80 ohm (most loudspeakers goes over 30 ohm @ the lows).

most headphone amps for loads between 16-300 ohm.

right, headphone amps for high ohm headphones are needed (over around 80 ohms).

 but for lower ohm headphones up to 80ohn thats the same, no technical deficit. correct you can get trouble connecting high ohm headphones to cheap amps. better amps are stable enough but don't work in their designed load.

abyss headphones or susvara are absolut fine with their moderat load for speakers amp.

tube amps need the right output transformer or a dummy load to work fine.


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## jlbrach

where does one house a speaker amp for use with a HP system? I have my HP system by my bed and am trying to imagine a speaker amp sitting next to me...first off there would be no room...second my table would likely collapse and i would need an extra air conditioner for the bed lol.....different strokes


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## CreditingKarma

jlbrach said:


> where does one house a speaker amp for use with a HP system? I have my HP system by my bed and am trying to imagine a speaker amp sitting next to me...first off there would be no room...second my table would likely collapse and i would need an extra air conditioner for the bed lol.....different strokes



This is why I have my sp1000 and the Khan and Solaris. Bedtime listening made easy.


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## tholt

I have a lot of room for an amp. I don't listen to headphones in bed; only listen when I'm working (or relaxing) at my desk. I can't imagine trying to get comfortable and keep the Abyss on my head laying down?! I guess it would work if you're sitting upright, but I have no need to listen in bed.


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## kelvinwsy




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## kelvinwsy




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## llamaluv

kelvinwsy said:


>



What are the 18 other items in the shopping cart? And more importantly, with just 4% battery remaining, will you be able to complete the transaction before the phone shuts off?


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## kelvinwsy

I hang out on Aliexpress .. wait for their sales .. Do put what I am watching jn tge shopping basket and wait. 
I got 2 units of Krell KSA5 for 320 USD shipped to my doorstep. Class A 8 watts at8 ohms
When i dont want to tun my power hungry 300b monoblocs I use these!
Anyway 10 ohm resistor across the terminaks get the KSA 5 seeing an 8 ohm load for my Abyss ab1266 phi, He560 and HD800
Twin volume controls .. exact balance adjustment if needed. No need amp, Hp, Source always exact sound balance


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## kelvinwsy

My earlier system setup All tube system driving fullrange horns.. The laptop is go e replaced by a HQplayer i7 server.. But my Audionote quest Silvers loaded with AN caps and Blackgates with Full music 300b and NOS 6sn7 is still center of my amplification system


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## Joe Skubinski

Suggest next time you solder a spade to crimp it to the wire, make the mechanical connection first, then solder. You're listening through too much solder the way you are terminating .


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## CreditingKarma

kelvinwsy said:


> I hang out on Aliexpress .. wait for their sales .. Do put what I am watching jn tge shopping basket and wait.
> I got 2 units of Krell KSA5 for 320 USD shipped to my doorstep. Class A 8 watts at8 ohms
> When i dont want to tun my power hungry 300b monoblocs I use these!
> Anyway 10 ohm resistor across the terminaks get the KSA 5 seeing an 8 ohm load for my Abyss ab1266 phi, He560 and HD800
> Twin volume controls .. exact balance adjustment if needed. No need amp, Hp, Source always exact sound balance



What you have going on there is a bit scary to say the least.


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## CreditingKarma

Joe liking the emoji


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## tholt

Wow. That is a lot going on. What's with the tin foil, duct tape and plastic wrap on your power cables?


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## kelvinwsy

Dont worry all cords are double insulated on the outer jackets to repel EMF /RFI and have ground leads to the ground of my Furutech power bar! 
Double foil with circular grounding link.Insulation cover ontop again. Go to Audiophilestyle.com. This is my version of what is called JSSG ( G us fir Grounding)
Total silence and black background .. U can hear all kinds of audience noises and instrument bowing sounds on Live albums ..


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## kelvinwsy

Silver 14ga in teflon jacket fir the 4pin XLR wire braid from speaker taps straight to the HP .. cheaper than 100usd
3usd per meter for the pure silver wire 4 USD for tbe 4 pin Neutrik XLR connector and a bit of DIY elbow grease. Works and Sounds fantastic!


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## Joe Skubinski (Jun 18, 2019)

Using a speaker amp for headphones is really no different than using a big headphone amp, however you really need to understand the limitations of the headphone, and the amp. Most speaker amps are not designed with considerations for connecting and disconnecting headphones in a hot swap fashion. Some amps will go crazy when the load changes abruptly. When things go wrong with a big amp they tend to go wrong very quickly, and without warning. Amps are not perfect, each has it's own set of limitations and quirks, the variables are too great to list, which is why we do not suggest to go the speaker amp route unless you know what you are doing and are willing to accept the risk.

Bottom line, the larger the amp the higher the probability that at some point you have an ohh.crap moment.

So long as you're cool with that chance, no big deal, enjoy to the max, just keep in mind that 1266 drivers aint cheap. Like a decent sports car, burning through a set of tires will run you over 2 grand mounted and balanced... just another day at the track.
.


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## Zhanming057

Joe Skubinski said:


> Using a speaker amp for headphones is really no different than using a big headphone amp, however you really need to understand the limitations of the headphone, and the amp. Most speaker amps are not designed with considerations for connecting and disconnecting headphones in a hot swap fashion. Some amps will go crazy when the load changes abruptly. When things go wrong with a big amp they tend to go wrong very quickly, and without warning. Amps are not perfect, each has it's own set of limitations and quirks, the variables are too great to list, which is why we do not suggest to go the speaker amp route unless you know what you are doing and are willing to accept the risk.
> 
> Bottom line, the larger the amp the higher the probability that at some point you have an ohh.**** moment.
> 
> ...



Powerful speaker amps usually have very good protection circuitry. My Nagra INT goes into protection all the time, it's designed that way and will show you a code on the next startup about what went wrong the previous time. If you do something as simple as turn up the volume really fast it'll detect a surge and cut off the taps, and they make the threshold conservative because rebooting the amp is a lot less hassle than fixing a speaker cone.

I'm not aware of any headphone amp builder that puts nearly as much thought into protecting the output end. Woo is very explicit about not turning amps on and off without presenting a load. And these aren't low power devices either, some of them do 10w into 100 ohms or 20w into 32.

All said, I'd trust my 175wpc dma150s2 - which is pushing on two decades, no less - more than a headtrip. If you run high end headphones off cheap amps, the risk is pretty substantial regardless.


----------



## mulder01

kelvinwsy said:


>



You can make emf shielding hats out of that stuff too...


----------



## kelvinwsy

Hi Joe I slot the 14 ga silver wire thru the hole in the speaker tap! Of course i can get 2 male 4pin mini xlr and do a direct hookup to the 1266! But i doubt this can beat the Danacable Ref I just got


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## kelvinwsy

At least the Aliens cannot zap my brains while I hv my 1266 on my head
Seriously the tweaks on PC audio on audiophilestyle.com seems outrageous until u try and hear the SQ dividends


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## kelvinwsy

Abyss users shuld really hear the Stereo SQ jump when u use Monobloc amps . Even the cheapo bin Krell KSA5 using 1 channel per amp (quasi monobloc) sounds Sao much better than two channels same amp driving the 4 pin XLR


----------



## kelvinwsy

Joe Skubinski said:


> Oh I see your point BUT the main circuit is the one with the 10ohm resistor (looking fwd at the back of the amps will be the right hand speaker taps. The left hand side is my earlier wire braid to connect to the aiqin resistor boxes ! just hooked it up as dummy load. Same with the RCA's one channel is connected to my DAC . The other is connected up for proper grounding


----------



## Beolab

Zhanming057 said:


> You use an adapter like the one below. The standard 4 pin XLR pinout corresponds to the two channels on the amp.






Here is an High End example on how it can be dun by Double Helix Cables : 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dhc-flagella-reference-occ-litz.861962/


----------



## Drewligarchy

I was loaned an XI Formula S, Powerman and Utopia from the Cable Company which I received on Thursday.

Wow - Dave > Formula S > Abyss TC is an amazing combo. It sounds much more transparent than my v281.

I have listened for the past three nights and don't have deep detailed notes or impressions, but the head stage expands, the mids are more fluid, the bass is more powerful - and the treble is slightly sweeter. Effectively the biggest change is that I can listen to a much wider range of music and have it sound fantastic - and it's not a question of gain. The Dave does have enough power to drive the abyss loudly enough for the music I listen to. What I'm finding is with Flim Scores, Electronic Orchestral, Classical, - even those that don't have an incredibly high dynamic range - they just sound better - and it's not a small change. As this is a lot of what I listen to, it's very important! Something is going on in the mids that I can't put my finger on. Previously, this type of music didn't sound quite right to me on the Dave direct. Now they sound the best I've ever heard them. I think this makes the Abyss TC supplant the Stax 009 as my favorite headphone. Will have to wait until I overcome new toy syndrome to be sure!

For some rock, especially with distorted guitars, I still prefer the Dave direct a little. For some reason, the slight reduction in transparency seems to be more noticeable there. It seems counter intuitive to me as I would think this would be more apparent on other types of music. I'll have to listen to a bit more to try and get a handle on where the Dave direct shines, but in the vast majority of cases the Formula S provides a significant improvement. I am wowed.

Comparing to the Formula S to the v281 it is a dramatic improvement IMHO. My major problem is that the Abyss sounds too dark on the v281. I felt like it diminished some of the treble magic the Abyss TC has. It's there on the Dave direct. 

I got the Utopia again, even though I've demoed them before, because I didn't have a Dave then. Running through a Yggy or Auralic Vega and my v281 rolled off the sound a bit, previously as well. Dave direct they sound much, much better. I am quite enjoying them. That said - because I don't have endless pockets - I'll purchase the Forumla S and Powerman for now - as it's quite a chunk of change. As I have the Abyss TC, I feel like I don't really have a need for them - outside of the desire to have a flagship headphone that I run directly through the Dave.

This may be an over simplification - but the overall sound signature / tonal balance of the Utopia direct through the Dave, and the Abyss TC with Formula S sound quite similar. The Abyss however has this massive soundstage and (imaging seems better as a result, because the Utopia feels somewhat congested in comparison). The Bass on the Abyss, especially with the Formula S, is tight, deep, and incredibly tactile - better than I've ever heard on any headphone.

Interestingly, so far I still prefer my LCD 4 on the Violectric V281. While I think the Abyss (and 009 for that matter) are superior, the LCD 4, IMO, has the best mids I've ever heard on a headphone. This is more pronounced on the V281, and the upper treble is ever so slightly rolled off. Because of the lift in the upper treble with the LCD 4, I get fatigued listening to it Dave direct, or via the Formula S - so it almost needs it. In addition, it has more bass quantity on the V281 - which may just be due to the slightly decreased treble and its effect on tonal balance. The LCD4 and V281 just have this synergy I've always liked, which I can't seem to replicate with other amps. While I was hoping to sell the v281 if I bought the Formula S, I think I may keep both. The LCD 4/v281 just does something that none of my other headphones do -  and provides another flavor. 

This is my headphone listening station I've set up in my loft. A respite from the wife and kids. The best deal there is probably the $600 Raymour and Flanigan motorized recliner. It reclines completely flat, and has separate adjustments for your head, so you can recline pretty far, while still keeping your head upright with the Abyss, which is incredibly comfortable! May get another rack to replace the bar/headphone stand - but it works for now:

Anyway, for now back to listening! I have some great headphones - and as a result I haven't been wowed in a long time. I'm wowed again.


----------



## FLTWS

Nice setup. A question. It appears your AC umbilical reaches okay with that side to side placement of Formula S and Powerman? Mine is too short to do that.


----------



## Drewligarchy

FLTWS said:


> Nice setup. A question. It appears your AC umbilical reaches okay with that side to side placement of Formula S and Powerman? Mine is too short to do that.



Yes - but only if the amp is on the left and the power supply is on the right because of the location of the umbilical sockets. Additionally, it's the umbilical the cable company sent me - so don't know if it's aftermarket, or a new version - but it is a tight fit.


----------



## FLTWS

The one I got is a little over 12". I should look for a longer one, stacked in shelves takes up a lot of space top to bottom. I just rotated my Ragnarok to my upstairs rig and brought the Formula S & P down to do some comparisons with the HP output on my PrimaLuna.


----------



## Mikey99

Zhanming057 said:


> On my trip to Amsterdam I had the chance of demoing the Abyss 1266 Phi CC/TC with the newest version of Airtight's acclaimed ATM300 at https://www.headphoneauditions.nl/. Big thanks to Stefan for offering me time on the amp and cans. His Amsterdam-based shop is one of the most impressive showrooms I've been to in the world, and has a wonderful selection of high end head-fi and 2-channel gear (Airtight, Abyss, Audio Technica, etc.).
> 
> Airtight has been offering some variant of the ATM 300 since the 80s, and this version involves component upgrades as well as utilizing Takatsuki's excellent TA-300 tubes. I have tried an older version of the amp in Japan with the K1000 and HE6, but this is the first time I got to run one with an Abyss can. Directly out of the Dave + Mscalar, which pairs quite well with most 300b amps, the ATM300 is such a massive step up from a kitted out WA5 that they barely sound like they run on the same power tube. It's unquestionably a 300b amp, but extremely nimble by the standards of any tube design, well controlled, and pulls no punches on the bass end. The signature negotiates a delicate balance between Manley's aggresiveness and mild coarseness with the slightly meandering signature of the WA5.
> 
> ...


I will have to listen to the Abyss on this rig. I had been thinking of getting a tube amp like the WA5, but it appears this is superior. And I love the look of this amp.

I am about 10 minutes walk from Stefan’s shop and go there quite a bit. I agree he has a fantastic selection of high-end gear. Good excuse for a trip to Amsterdam! I am fortunate I’m that I have been able to do home auditions as needed - Stefan is very accommodating.


----------



## FLTWS

That's a super sexy setup Zhanming057.


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## m17xr2b

Mikey99 said:


> I will have to listen to the Abyss on this rig. I had been thinking of getting a tube amp like the WA5



Just from a technical view the WA5 is far inferior to a TOTL 300B speaker amp. The output transformers are not the best, the input stage is not quite ideal for 300B swing voltage as it leave too much to tube coloration, some of the caps are 5$ cheapo. Unless you're running some serious tubes 2K+ the WA5 is just not worth it. With the original Abyss a powerful speaker amp such as the Moon 600i is going to beast it easily.


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## fredfung28 (Jun 26, 2019)

Finally my TC arrived!!!
Its so stunning even it has not broken in, the mid is so much better than phi in my memory. Sad that I couldn’t compare it directly.
I will do more comparison later on.


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## fredfung28

The sibilance problem in Phi has completely solved with the TC.. I’m so impressed with the mid of abyss now. Keeping all the resolution and imaging, the mid is so refined now. I think this is an very great update in fact!


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## jlbrach

the susvara has a bit of sibilance the TC has less...it is a remarkable HP


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## GuyForkes (Jun 27, 2019)

I was struggling with the comfort of the Abyss TC. I had found the ziptie mod too finicky and also affected the sound. Then I pulled out a box of dekoni nuggets my dealer gave me awhile back and sticked it on the headband out of desperation but it worked beautifully at removing the hotspot on the top of my head. Just something to try out if that hotspot was bothering you.


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## fredfung28

jlbrach said:


> the susvara has a bit of sibilance the TC has less...it is a remarkable HP


Agree I thought susvara will be less but seems not. But susvara has its own characteristic that attract us to use together with TC 
Quite a different sound signature comparing to tc, it’s more unified in a way to present the music


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## me2621a

Hi Guys,
Question fo you. I am contemplating demoing an Abyss Phi TC, I was wondering if the new TC driver is any easier to drive? I currently have two amps, an AmpsandSound Mogwai SE (3 watts  per channel plus into 32 ohms), and I can run it closer to 6 watts with a 5AR4, and AmpsandSounds Suolo Monos which deliver 340mw into 32 ohms and 400mw into 8 and 300 (all per channel).  I was wondering if anyone can comment on how the Phi TC sounds on lower powered tube amps, and if the TC driver is more efficient then the previous driver? 

Thanks guys.


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## tholt

me2621a said:


> I currently have two amps, an AmpsandSound Mogwai SE (3 watts per channel plus into 32 ohms), and I can run it closer to 6 watts with a 5AR4



The Mogwai SE should be fine at that power output. I had posted an inquiry about the Mogwai SE w/the Abyss. I'm curious of your thoughts if you pair it with an Abyss.

I believe the TC is about the same sensitivity as the original OG Abyss. The Phi version is a little easier to drive. But all versions are generally similar in drivability.


----------



## me2621a

tholt said:


> The Mogwai SE should be fine at that power output. I had posted an inquiry about the Mogwai SE w/the Abyss. I'm curious of your thoughts if you pair it with an Abyss.
> 
> I believe the TC is about the same sensitivity as the original OG Abyss. The Phi version is a little easier to drive. But all versions are generally similar in drivability.



Thank you for the reply, we will see, I may bring my Suolo Mono to my local dealer to see how they sound with he Abyss, I am only interested in purchasing them if both the Mogwai and the monos can drive them correctly. 

I would also be curious how people think these compare with the Focale Utopias? 

Thanks again.


----------



## simorag

me2621a said:


> I am only interested in purchasing them if both the Mogwai and the monos can drive them correctly



Based on specs only, I would say that the Soulo Monos are not ideal power-wise, at least if you like to listen to large dynamic range music at realistic volume. Anyway, if you can try by yourself that's the final answer of course...



me2621a said:


> I would also be curious how people think these compare with the Focale Utopias?



There are similarities like detail retrieval and resolution, slightly brighter than neutral presentation, precise imaging and instruments separation.
I preferred the AB-1266 TC due to its much larger soundstage and much deeper, impactful and satisfying bass ... you get an experience closer to speakers from the Abyss 



Female vocals are more seductive, to my tastes, with the Utopia, which are also much easier to drive hence more versatile.


----------



## CreditingKarma

me2621a said:


> Thank you for the reply, we will see, I may bring my Suolo Mono to my local dealer to see how they sound with he Abyss, I am only interested in purchasing them if both the Mogwai and the monos can drive them correctly.
> 
> I would also be curious how people think these compare with the Focale Utopias?
> 
> Thanks again.




I don't own the utopia but have the clear and preferred it to the utopia. The utopia and clear have a small soundstage. The ab1266 tc has a expansive soundstage and imaging that is on par or better than the utopia. The abyss trounces the focal in terms of bass quantity and quality to me. The abyss is extremely fast and resolving. It is really rewarding once you get the fit dialed in. I haven't picked up my clears or LCD X since I got the abyss.


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## lambdastorm

CreditingKarma said:


> I don't own the utopia but have the clear and preferred it to the utopia. The utopia and clear have a small soundstage. The ab1266 tc has a expansive soundstage and imaging that is on par or better than the utopia. The abyss trounces the focal in terms of bass quantity and quality to me. The abyss is extremely fast and resolving. It is really rewarding once you get the fit dialed in. I haven't picked up my clears or LCD X since I got the abyss.


I have the same setup except that my Clear has driver imbalance. After Focal repaired it I gave it a spin, and was not very impressed. It seems to sacrifice too much detail and bass extension for 'clar'ity.


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## me2621a

Well we will see,

I just purchased a used Abyss 1266 phi cc to take for a spin. I’ll be testing with both the Mogwai SE and the Suolo Monos, and I’ll be able to do direct comparisons with the Utopia and Stellia. 

Pretty excited, I already have a 15ft Wireworld nano eclipse cable for it so it should be fun.


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## tholt

@me2621a , congrats. Do post your impressions with the mogwai SE, or if not here, please PM me. Curious too what you think vs the Utopia. Enjoy!


----------



## me2621a

tholt said:


> @me2621a , congrats. Do post your impressions with the mogwai SE, or if not here, please PM me. Curious too what you think vs the Utopia. Enjoy!



Will do, I will keep you posted.


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## fredfung28

Hi again, how’s your 1266TC ? May I know how many hours make it stable?
Now mine is around 100 but the sound is still a bit tight


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## Joe Skubinski

Check out our YouTube page, great videos...
https://youtube.com/abyssheadphones


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## fredfung28

Joe Skubinski said:


> Check out our YouTube page, great videos...
> https://youtube.com/abyssheadphones


Hi Joe, any info of the break in time of abyss 1266 TC?


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## simorag

fredfung28 said:


> Hi again, how’s your 1266TC ? May I know how many hours make it stable?
> Now mine is around 100 but the sound is still a bit tight



In my case I noticed changes within the first 50-100 hours. 

Not sure it was brain rather than gear burn-in, but the changes I was hearing were the upper midrange clearing out and opening (comparatively a tad nasal and veiled out of the box) and the bass tightening-up (initially a bit boomy).

Since then, the sound has remained steady(ly beautiful 

).


----------



## fredfung28

simorag said:


> In my case I noticed changes within the first 50-100 hours.
> 
> Not sure it was brain rather than gear burn-in, but the changes I was hearing were the upper midrange clearing out and opening (comparatively a tad nasal and veiled out of the box) and the bass tightening-up (initially a bit boomy).
> 
> ...


Mine is still a bit tight in the mid, with susvara I feel the vocal is a bit too rational, however classical is crazily good ,  better than phi with cc pad, micro details,dynamic , power of brass, details of bass improved a lot which is more than just noticeable.
I wish the run in will result better in the mid and high mid , the vocal seems a bit tight and not open enough


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## tholt (Jul 2, 2019)

fredfung28 said:


> Hi again, how’s your 1266TC ? May I know how many hours make it stable?
> Now mine is around 100 but the sound is still a bit tight



I can't imagine things changing beyond 100 hours!? The drivers are completely broken in at this point. Not sure what 'tight' means but my .02 is that you shouldn't expect any appreciable change from the Abyss. Any 'change' you might hear beyond now is you adjusting to their sound. Their signature IME is very neutral and flat. They are microscopes. Amazing extension and soundstage, but truthtellers. If you're not happy with the sound, I would look at upstream components in your chain. And/or, you just don't like the sound signature of the Abyss.


----------



## fredfung28

tholt said:


> I can't imagine things changing appreciably beyond 100 hours!? The drivers are completely broken in at this point. Not sure what 'tight' means but my .02 is that you shouldn't expect any appreciable change from the Abyss. Any 'change' you might hear beyond now is you adjusting to their sound. Their signature IME is very neutral and flat. They are microscopes. Amazing extension and soundstage, but truthtellers. If you're not happy with the sound, I would look at upstream components in your chain. And/or, you just don't like the sound signature of the Abyss.



I’m using 1266 phi with cc pads before, my actually listening hours might just be 8 hours.  
For phi with cc pads I remember the mid is more open, that’s why I ask
I will have a try tonight to see, friends also suggest that pads will make a different after long usage, as the pad changes.


----------



## tholt

Honestly, I didn't notice much change from hour 1. Any change since I first put them on my head has been negligible. I went from OG to Phi and _that_ difference was immediate. Silkier highs, fuller mids.


----------



## fredfung28

tholt said:


> Honestly, I didn't notice much change from hour 1. Any change since I first put them on my head has been negligible. I went from OG to Phi and _that_ difference was immediate. Silkier highs, fuller mids.


I agree silkier high and fuller mids, anyway will see if the change occur after I run for a bit longer time


----------



## deuter

Anyone in Melbourne with Abyss 1266?


----------



## tunes

fredfung28 said:


> I agree silkier high and fuller mids, anyway will see if the change occur after I run for a bit longer time



Any critical listening comparisons between the new phi 1266 TC and Hifiman Susvara.   Would consider running from Dave/Mscaler plus a good speaker amp like Pass Labs  XA25 or Benchmark AHB2.


----------



## fredfung28

tunes said:


> Any critical listening comparisons between the new phi 1266 TC and Hifiman Susvara.   Would consider running from Dave/Mscaler plus a good speaker amp like Pass Labs  XA25 or Benchmark AHB2.


What I could say is both has its good area of presentation. In my system, susvara has more bass quantity while 1266 tc has more quality based. Imaging, TC is better. Sound stage TC is better. 
If you listen to classical and want a very detailed presentation, 1266tc will be your choice. If you are looking for something relax and musical, susvara will be your choice.
Two headphones have very different presentation in every songs, it really depends what you like most. I found 1266 tc is more rational and susvara more musical.
You can get most of the details from 1266 tc while susvara focus on the whole picture of the music. I can say is that this a very different style of playback. I enjoy to keep both headphones in my system.

However, I think there might have some headphones that can replace susvara in that type of presentation like empyrean, or the new spirit torino ragnarr(heard from someone saying that its a very good one but i haven't heard of it).
I think 1266 tc style of presentation is irreplaceable by other headphones, because it has its uniqueness of imaging, which is a very speaker like one.


----------



## jlbrach

The TC is a bigger presentation....bigger soundstage, more grunt....more bass....the susvara is more intimate but still expansive ....incredible detail and perfect for jazz and acoustic music...these are IMHO the 2 best HP's available and one cannot go wrong with either one.....with the proper source they both expose more of the music than i ever thought possible....i know technology marches on but I have trouble imagining what comes next that is appreciably better


----------



## mulder01

deuter said:


> Anyone in Melbourne with Abyss 1266?


Does a2a not have them on demo?  I was hoping to hear one next to a Diana Phi when I am down there in a couple of weeks...
I was at their Sydney store recently and they carry everything but Abyss for some reason.  Was hoping Melbourne would be different.


----------



## deuter

mulder01 said:


> Does a2a not have them on demo?  I was hoping to hear one next to a Diana Phi when I am down there in a couple of weeks...
> I was at their Sydney store recently and they carry everything but Abyss for some reason.  Was hoping Melbourne would be different.



They definitely do and I have been there a couple of months back.
But what I was hoping to try is listen to a different amp.
Addicted to audio don’t hold many high end amps anymore and it seems like they are slowly winding down the summit fi category.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Cool video in situ...


----------



## Ciggavelli

I recently got my Abyss 1266 Phi TCs.  I was coming from a Focal Utopia, Senn HD800, and Fostex 900mk2 background (I still have all of them, which I used to compare with for the TCs).  I was looking for something that had the clarity of the Utopias, but with the bass of the th900Mk2s.  While the 1266 Phi TCs don't give me as much bass as the TH900mks (at least not with my unbroken-in TCs, the stock cable, and a Chord Hugo TT2), they give me more bass than the Utopias, with the same type of clarity as the Utopia, with a bigger soundstage. 

I listened to the TCs all day yesterday and today, and I am very impressed.  Aside from the awkward loose fitting, and it taking me so long to figure out how to make them fit properly (I finally realized I had to bend the frame out a bit, due to my big head), these headphones sound amazing, and are well worth the money.  I tried my Utopias again, for comparison, and they no longer sound as good as I had thought prior to listening to the TCs.  I know it's still too early to properly analyze the headphones, but after listening to the TCs, I'm not sure I am going to find a need to use the Utopias or HD800s.   The TCs have the clarity of the Utopias, with a similar sound stage as the HD800s, with more bass.  The TCs are not at Fostex TH900MK2 level bass, but they are still very satisfying.  Perhaps a new cable (probably a Danacables Lazuili Reference, which I like a lot on my Utopias) will give me a bit more bass.  But, if they don't I'll still be happy.  

For Hip-Hop, I'll still stick with the Fostex TH900mks, but for everything else, I will probably use the 1266 Phi TCs.


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## Litlgi74 (Jul 11, 2019)

Ciggavelli said:


> For Hip-Hop, I'll still stick with the Fostex TH900mks, but for everything else, I will probably use the 1266 Phi TCs



Thanks for sharing your thoughts on your new TCs...

I sold my TH900s to help fund my purchase of the 1266 CCs... The CCs are incredible headphones... But I do miss the real slam and thump of the TH900s! Which leaves me in a bit of a dilemma... Do I spend the $1750 to upgrade my CCs to TCs or do I just buy another pair of TH900s?

Just thinking out loud...


----------



## matthewhypolite

Anyone hear got to compare the TC to the RaaL ?


----------



## Sound Trooper

Ciggavelli said:


> I recently got my Abyss 1266 Phi TCs.  I was coming from a Focal Utopia, Senn HD800, and Fostex 900mk2 background (I still have all of them, which I used to compare with for the TCs).  I was looking for something that had the clarity of the Utopias, but with the bass of the th900Mk2s.  While the 1266 Phi TCs don't give me as much bass as the TH900mks (at least not with my unbroken-in TCs, the stock cable, and a Chord Hugo TT2), they give me more bass than the Utopias, with the same type of clarity as the Utopia, with a bigger soundstage.
> 
> I listened to the TCs all day yesterday and today, and I am very impressed.  Aside from the awkward loose fitting, and it taking me so long to figure out how to make them fit properly (I finally realized I had to bend the frame out a bit, due to my big head), these headphones sound amazing, and are well worth the money.  I tried my Utopias again, for comparison, and they no longer sound as good as I had thought prior to listening to the TCs.  I know it's still too early to properly analyze the headphones, but after listening to the TCs, I'm not sure I am going to find a need to use the Utopias or HD800s.   The TCs have the clarity of the Utopias, with a similar sound stage as the HD800s, with more bass.  The TCs are not at Fostex TH900MK2 level bass, but they are still very satisfying.  Perhaps a new cable (probably a Danacables Lazuili Reference, which I like a lot on my Utopias) will give me a bit more bass.  But, if they don't I'll still be happy.
> 
> For Hip-Hop, I'll still stick with the Fostex TH900mks, but for everything else, I will probably use the 1266 Phi TCs.



I do have the TH900mk2 and the Phi CC, and to me even though the Phi CC doesn’t give as much quantity in bass, it is definitely a step up in bass quality. I find that the Phi CC’s sub bass reaches lower while the bass hits harder and cleaner. 

I really enjoy the TH900mk2 with my portable sources (ibasso DX220) as they are so easy to drive.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I've been having a ball playing different genres with my TCs.  For all of you into metal, the latest Origin album (Abiogensis) sounds ridiculously good.  Compared to my Utopia's, the treble doesn't actually bother me, and I actually think it sounds amazing.  I love these new headphones


----------



## GuyForkes

matthewhypolite said:


> Anyone hear got to compare the TC to the RaaL ?



This was my reply to someone who PMed me a similar question to compare TC, Susvara and SR1a:

Susvara: Richest/thickest tonality due to its forward midrange. Most toned down treble. Lowest resolution/speed of the three, smallest soundstage but images better than Abyss TC.

Abyss TC: Slight V-shape, find myself turning up the volume to compensate for the perceived thinness in the midrange. Highest bass impact (The bass on all 3 are extremely high quality) by a significant margin. Treble feels a little exaggerated but I find it quite addictive. Second largest soundstage but does not image as well as Susvara/SR1a. Resolution/speed is impressive, close to SR1a. There is some cup coloration in the sound, I can't quite describe it but it becomes very apparent when A/Bing with the SR1a.

SR1a: Tonality very balanced. Most neutral and natural sounding to me. Soundstage and imaging far exceeding that of Susvara and Abyss TC. Most resolving.

All three are top tier headphones I could be happy with but the SR1a comes out ahead. The caveat is that its performance is extremely dependent on upstream gear. A cheapo 100wpc class D amplifier with outdated modules is not gonna cut it.   

Disclaimer: Susvara/Abyss TC driven by the Cayin HA-300 amplifier. SR1a is driven by Rogue Audio RP-7 + Stereo 100 Preamp/Amp combo. The Rogue Audio stack is twice the price of the Cayin and does sound better to my ears.


----------



## matthewhypolite

GuyForkes said:


> This was my reply to someone who PMed me a similar question to compare TC, Susvara and SR1a:
> 
> Susvara: Richest/thickest tonality due to its forward midrange. Most toned down treble. Lowest resolution/speed of the three, smallest soundstage but images better than Abyss TC.
> 
> ...



Awesome. Thanks for the write up.

How's the bass on the Sr? Also I've read another review which indicates the Sr is harsh. Your thoughts on this?


----------



## lambdastorm

matthewhypolite said:


> Awesome. Thanks for the write up.
> 
> How's the bass on the Sr? Also I've read another review which indicates the Sr is harsh. Your thoughts on this?


My question also.


----------



## GuyForkes

matthewhypolite said:


> Awesome. Thanks for the write up.
> 
> How's the bass on the Sr? Also I've read another review which indicates the Sr is harsh. Your thoughts on this?



SR1a bass is very punchy, textured and extends deep. Bass quantity is good enough for me. It doesn't hit as hard as Abyss TC, no headphone I know does. 
I'm not hearing any harshness. There's an ease/effortlessness to the sound of the SR1a. Those reports of harshness probably came from poor upstream components.


----------



## deuter (Jul 12, 2019)

Ciggavelli said:


> I recently got my Abyss 1266 Phi TCs.  I was coming from a Focal Utopia, Senn HD800, and Fostex 900mk2 background (I still have all of them, which I used to compare with for the TCs).  I was looking for something that had the clarity of the Utopias, but with the bass of the th900Mk2s.  While the 1266 Phi TCs don't give me as much bass as the TH900mks (at least not with my unbroken-in TCs, the stock cable, and a Chord Hugo TT2), they give me more bass than the Utopias, with the same type of clarity as the Utopia, with a bigger soundstage.
> 
> I listened to the TCs all day yesterday and today, and I am very impressed.  Aside from the awkward loose fitting, and it taking me so long to figure out how to make them fit properly (I finally realized I had to bend the frame out a bit, due to my big head), these headphones sound amazing, and are well worth the money.  I tried my Utopias again, for comparison, and they no longer sound as good as I had thought prior to listening to the TCs.  I know it's still too early to properly analyze the headphones, but after listening to the TCs, I'm not sure I am going to find a need to use the Utopias or HD800s.   The TCs have the clarity of the Utopias, with a similar sound stage as the HD800s, with more bass.  The TCs are not at Fostex TH900MK2 level bass, but they are still very satisfying.  Perhaps a new cable (probably a Danacables Lazuili Reference, which I like a lot on my Utopias) will give me a bit more bass.  But, if they don't I'll still be happy.
> 
> For Hip-Hop, I'll still stick with the Fostex TH900mks, but for everything else, I will probably use the 1266 Phi TCs.



I might be slammed here, but the Original AB 1266 gave you way more bass then the current drivers.


----------



## astrostar59

Litlgi74 said:


> Thanks for sharing your thoughts on your new TCs...
> 
> I sold my TH900s to help fund my purchase of the 1266 CCs... The CCs are incredible headphones... But I do miss the real slam and thump of the TH900s! Which leaves me in a bit of a dilemma... Do I spend the $1750 to upgrade my CCs to TCs or do I just buy another pair of TH900s?
> 
> Just thinking out loud...



LCD4s?


----------



## Articnoise

GuyForkes said:


> This was my reply to someone who PMed me a similar question to compare TC, Susvara and SR1a:
> 
> Susvara: Richest/thickest tonality due to its forward midrange. Most toned down treble. Lowest resolution/speed of the three, smallest soundstage but images better than Abyss TC.
> 
> ...



Sorry I got curious, why didn’t you use the same amplifier* for all headphones? Don’t you think that the difference between those completely different types of amps can enhance some of the perceived SQ difference (both good and bad)?

*I like that you are clear and specified that you have used different amp.


----------



## GuyForkes

Articnoise said:


> Sorry I got curious, why didn’t you use the same amplifier* for all headphones? Don’t you think that the difference between those completely different types of amps can enhance some of the perceived SQ difference (both good and bad)?
> 
> *I like that you are clear and specified that you have used different amp.



You're right. Reason is that I can't. The SR1a won't run off the Cayin HA-300 which only outputs 8wpc through the speaker taps. I also did not have the speaker adapter on hand to connect the Susvara/Abyss TC to the Rogue Stereo 100. Have already ordered an adapter and will try it at some point. Regardless, I think the change won't be so significant as to overwrite what I wrote previously but who knows.


----------



## Litlgi74

astrostar59 said:


> LCD4s?


LCD4s over Abyss or TH900s?

I didnt care for the sound signature of the LCD4s I heard at CanJam... It seemed like there was something strange going on with the treble and cymbals. 

As far as the bass response of the TH900s... You can't really say any other headphone has the best bass until you hear the TH900s... If you haven't experienced it... You are missing out.


----------



## me2621a

@tholt since you asked,

I have been enjoying my new Abyss for a week now. I am quite impressed with the 1266 CC, it sounds like no other headphone I have ever listened to, and when I listen to it I find that I am unable to do other activities, I am just to invested in the music. Going back to the Utopia or the Stellia right after listening to the Abyss leaves me with a small stage, congestion, and almost metallic vocals. Now mind you if I go away and come back the next day and put on the Utopias first, they sound great, until the Abyss come out haha. 

As for amping, the Mogwai SE drives the abyss fantastically, especially when you put in a 5ar4, with my current tube combo the amp does somewhere around 4 - 5 watts into 32 ohms using a pair of Bendix 6384 (6l6gc eq) and a TS 6SU7 the result is really just awesome. 

To my surprise, the Abyss also did better then expected on my Kenzie Monoblocks (350mw into 32 ohms). Vocals are nice, but more dynamic pieces miss something that the Mogwai SE is able to provide, this is to be expected. Switching the mono blocks from 1626 power tubes to 12B4As (roughly doubling output power) makes the Abyss quite enjoyable on the monos, and if I did not have the SE I could see using the Abyss on the monos regularly, however my Utopias and Stellias love the 1626 so I don't see the Abyss getting much play time on the Monos. 

My only complaint is fit, my ears are to high or my head is to short, so I had to get a headband pad and put it in-between my head and the headband so that the drivers would not be too low. While it is very comfy once on I am surprised at this price that a better solution is not built in for adjusting the height, especially when I see what Abyss has done on the Dianna Phi, though I have not personally warn them, so maybe they are not that comfy once on. Who knows either way they are a keeper, and the Ampsandsound Mogwai SE is a great partner for them.


----------



## tholt

@me2621a , thanks for your follow up. I was actually wondering about this recently! Can you describe a bit more detail the SQ of the pairing? I'm interested in overall presentation, extension (bass and treble amount and quality), midrange, PRaT, etc. Any details would be appreciated. I'm still mildly curious about this amplifier. I see a couple on the used market and I'm in the market for an amp (the never ending saga....)

Regarding fit -- I 100% agree. For $5k, I believe one can make a good argument that some R&D could have been spent on making a better, more refined way to adjust fit. I'm in the same situation as you. I came up with a solution that is very easy, doesn't involve any tweaking/modification and makes them fit perfectly (for me). See the image. I simply don't loop the O rings around the two pieces on the headband. I just wedge the rings into the bottom. The rings are thick enough that they stay. Works well.

Looking forward to your thoughts on the Mogwai. Thanks


----------



## Allears79 (Jul 12, 2019)

Hi, need help checking an issue with the left channel of the TC: mine is brand new (2 months old) with 80h of burning and in some songs - specially when playing mid tone piano and acoustic guitar - I can hear a vibration coming from the left driver. I've already inverted the cable, change rotation of pads, but this is apparently coming from the driver, as if it had a loose diaphragm.

Can someone quickly test these 2 tracks and let me know if you have the same issues? 1- The Garden (Artist: Brad Mehldau / Album: Finding Gabriel) and 2 - Winston Churchill's Boy (Artist: Benjamin Clementine / Album: At Least For Now). The vibration appears right in the first minute of the song.

I appreciate very much the community feedback on this!!!


----------



## Litlgi74

Allears79 said:


> Hi, need help checking an issue with the left channel of the TC: mine is brand new (2 months old) with 80h of burning and in some songs - specially when playing mid tone piano and acoustic guitar - I can hear a vibration coming from the left driver. I've already inverted the cable, change rotation of pads, but this is apparently coming from the driver, as if it had a loose diaphragm.
> 
> Can someone quickly test these 2 tracks and let me know if you have the same issues? 1- The Garden (Artist: Brad Mehldau / Album: Finding Gabriel) and 2 - Winston Churchill's Boy (Artist: Benjamin Clementine / Album: At Least For Now). The vibration appears right in the first minute of the song.
> 
> I appreciate very much the community feedback on this!!!



I do hope we can help sort out your vibration problem... 

But thank you for introducing me to Benjamin Clementine... I love hearing new music and this was a joy to listen to... Especially the song I Won't Complain. WOW! Fantastic.

Thanks again


----------



## ra990 (Jul 12, 2019)

Allears79 said:


> Hi, need help checking an issue with the left channel of the TC: mine is brand new (2 months old) with 80h of burning and in some songs - specially when playing mid tone piano and acoustic guitar - I can hear a vibration coming from the left driver. I've already inverted the cable, change rotation of pads, but this is apparently coming from the driver, as if it had a loose diaphragm.
> 
> Can someone quickly test these 2 tracks and let me know if you have the same issues? 1- The Garden (Artist: Brad Mehldau / Album: Finding Gabriel) and 2 - Winston Churchill's Boy (Artist: Benjamin Clementine / Album: At Least For Now). The vibration appears right in the first minute of the song.
> 
> I appreciate very much the community feedback on this!!!


A few others have experienced this issue, including myself, specifically with the left driver. I would love to know why it's always the left driver and never the right. Get in touch with Abyss, they will take care of you.


----------



## lambdastorm (Jul 12, 2019)

ra990 said:


> A few others have experienced this issue, including myself, specifically with the left driver. I would love to know why it's always the left driver and never the right. Get in touch with Abyss, they will take care of you.


Seems like a recurring theme at this point. My pair used to have a similar problem: bass on the left driver is much quieter than the right. It's weird how the rest of the frequency spectrum remain completely unaffected. Abyss was able to take care of my pair without any hassle, but it still got me wondering why whenever someone has a problem with their pair its always the left driver. With how channel matching works you'd assume its always a 50-50.


----------



## tholt

lambdastorm said:


> Abyss was able to take care of my pair without any hassle, but it still got me wondering why whenever someone has a problem with their pair its always the left driver.



Strange indeed. I assumed the drivers were the same regardless of side, but these comments lead me to think that the drivers are made to be L or R? I assume that Abyss don't burn in for an extended period of time. Perhaps 24 hours or so just to rule out failures. Could be wrong, but certainly suggests that these anomalies happen long after Abyss would catch anything amiss at the factory.


----------



## astrostar59

Interesting. Could it be cable routing in the housing? A cable touching the frame for example? That may explain why it is the left side all the time.


----------



## Litlgi74

Allears79 said:


> Hi, need help checking an issue with the left channel of the TC: mine is brand new (2 months old) with 80h of burning and in some songs - specially when playing mid tone piano and acoustic guitar - I can hear a vibration coming from the left driver. I've already inverted the cable, change rotation of pads, but this is apparently coming from the driver, as if it had a loose diaphragm.
> 
> Can someone quickly test these 2 tracks and let me know if you have the same issues? 1- The Garden (Artist: Brad Mehldau / Album: Finding Gabriel) and 2 - Winston Churchill's Boy (Artist: Benjamin Clementine / Album: At Least For Now). The vibration appears right in the first minute of the song.
> 
> I appreciate very much the community feedback on this!!!



Tested the tracks on my CCs... No vibration.


----------



## jlbrach

the frame might be loose....when i sold my Phi's the buyer said he thought he heard a vibration that i had never noticed...i ended up sending them off to abyss to have them checked out and i was told there was no issue with the drivers but the frame was a bit loose and could cause some vibration in certain positions.....worth looking into


----------



## Allears79

Thanks guys. JPS just asked me to send them back for verification. I'll do this and report findings.


----------



## Alarickc

For those that where wondering:

I just recieved notice that Abyss is ready to upgrade my Phi CC to the new TC drivers. I shipped them off yesterday. I am beyond excited to hear what they've done with the new driver tech.


----------



## jlbrach

you will be pleased although the phi is no slouch...what are they charging for this upgrade?


----------



## Alarickc

I'm not sure what they would charge (From previous comments I'd guess ~$1750-$2500 if the offer it more generally). I purchased my CC a few weeks before the TC came out, so Joe was kind enough to upgrade mine free of charge. It's a large part of the reason (beyond the incredible sound quality) that I'm going to order a custom-color Diana Phi in another week or so; Abyss understands that they are selling ultra-premium luxury goods by any definition, and have the customer service to back that up. I wish I could say that about more companies, but I'm glad I can tell anyone that Abyss will take care of you.


----------



## tholt (Jul 13, 2019)

Allears79 said:


> Can someone quickly test these 2 tracks and let me know if you have the same issues? 1- The Garden (Artist: Brad Mehldau / Album: Finding Gabriel) and 2 - Winston Churchill's Boy (Artist: Benjamin Clementine / Album: At Least For Now). The vibration appears right in the first minute of the song.



Yep, no vibration issues for me either. Phi CC. Hope you get it sorted quickly w/Abyss' help.

Side note -- digging that B Clementine album. Well recorded.


----------



## tholt

jlbrach said:


> what are they charging for this upgrade?



I was told $1750 and a 4-5 month wait.


----------



## Litlgi74

tholt said:


> I was told $1750 and a 4-5 month wait.


Me too.


----------



## matthewhypolite

tholt said:


> I was told $1750 and a 4-5 month wait.



That's very generous considering you're getting an entirely new headphone. The phi upgrade cost 1500 and that was a straight driver swap into existing chassis


----------



## tholt

matthewhypolite said:


> That's very generous considering you're getting an entirely new headphone. The phi upgrade cost 1500 and that was a straight driver swap into existing chassis



New headphone? I thought the TC was also a straight driver swap into the existing CC chassis


----------



## matthewhypolite

tholt said:


> New headphone? I thought the TC was also a straight driver swap into the existing CC chassis



As far as I'm aware some of the internal dimensions are different, that was the reason given for upgrades not being available for the masses and only reserved for recent cc purchases?

Unless I'm mistaken but that's what I remeber from the TC launch. I sold my cc and bought a new TC for this reason.


----------



## tholt

If anyone has done the upgrade, would be good to shed some light here. 

I guess i'd be surprised if I received back all new headphones, but I certainly wouldn't complain!


----------



## Mikey99

I just picked up this stand, custom-made for the AB-1266. My local dealer (Headphone Auditions, in Amsterdam) worked with Room’s Audio to develop it.


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 14, 2019)

matthewhypolite said:


> As far as I'm aware some of the internal dimensions are different, that was the reason given for upgrades not being available for the masses and only reserved for recent cc purchases?
> 
> Unless I'm mistaken but that's what I remeber from the TC launch. I sold my cc and bought a new TC for this reason.



That's what I remember as well, so decided to stay with my Phi with purchased CC pads added on afterwards.

I rented a TC for about 3 weeks after it was introduced and did a write up posted to this thread some months back comparing the two..


----------



## Litlgi74

tholt said:


> New headphone? I thought the TC was also a straight driver swap into the existing CC chassis


My email to Abyss with similar questions...

My question:


> Maybe a silly question... Do you replace anything other than the drivers? Wondering if you update the badging near the drivers changes to read total consciousness? Does the warranty extend?


Abyss response:


> . The driver consists of the entire black baffle assembly so yes it reads like a new set. Warranty on the drivers is one year, or any extended warranty it may have, whichever is longer.


----------



## Litlgi74

Mikey99 said:


> I just picked up this stand, custom-made for the AB-1266. My local dealer (Headphone Auditions, in Amsterdam) worked with Room’s Audio to develop it.


Very nice... Is it available to purchase?


----------



## Mikey99

Litlgi74 said:


> Very nice... Is it available to purchase?


Yes it is. I believe it is exclusive to Headphone Auditions at this time.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jul 14, 2019)

Mikey99 said:


> Yes it is. I believe it is exclusive to Headphone Auditions at this time.


Didn't see it on their website... What does it cost?


----------



## matthewhypolite

Litlgi74 said:


> My email to Abyss with similar questions...
> 
> My question:
> 
> Abyss response:


Does that Mena we were misinformed and an upgrade was available after all?


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jul 14, 2019)

matthewhypolite said:


> Does that Mena we were misinformed and an upgrade was available after all?


To my knowledge.. Upgrades to TCs are available on CCs only... Not PHIs with CC pads. 

 PS...My driver assembly says Ceramic Coating (CC).


----------



## FLTWS

Litlgi74 said:


> To my knowledge.. Upgrades to TCs are available on CCs only... Not PHIs with CC pads.
> 
> PS...My driver assembly says Ceramic Coating (CC).



That is my understanding as well since the TC was introduced.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Litlgi74 said:


> Didn't see it on their website... What does it cost?


I would like to know as well.  I'm using an AudioQuest Perch at the moment, but the stand he showed seems like a better fit


----------



## Litlgi74

The Just Mobile stand that comes with abyss headphones does not allow for the cables to properly hang and bend at the stand/table surface... The Headphone Auditions looks to work much better.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jul 14, 2019)

Litlgi74 said:


> The Just Mobile stand that comes with abyss headphones does not allow for the cables to properly hang and bend at the stand/table surface... The Headphone Auditions looks to work much better.


 
Yeah, I've been having that problem with my two main headphones.  For the time being I'm putting the headphone stands on top of the Abyss wooden box (I gotta use if for something...hahaha).  I'm thinking about making a shelf using this same idea, but with several "triangle" edges on each side


----------



## Mikey99 (Jul 15, 2019)

Litlgi74 said:


> Didn't see it on their website... What does it cost?


A lot of what they have is not on the website. If you call or email I am sure you could get details and order. I am not  sure of the price, I exchanged my previous model. More expensive for sure given the elaborate design and limited production. Essentially handmade.


----------



## mulder01

You could go all out and get a floor mounted guitar stand.  Plenty of room for cables


----------



## Mikey99 (Jul 15, 2019)

I just spoke with Stefan from Headphone Auditions. He expects the next batch in 2 to 3 weeks. That is why the stand is not on his website yet. You can contact him at stefan@headphoneaudtions.nl to pre-order at €349,- incl. international shipping & handling.


----------



## jlbrach

looks interesting but not worth the cost for a stand....IMHO


----------



## tholt

^ Agreed. That's $400 USD. Nice looking piece, but I'll stick with my wobbly Just Mobile Abyss stand using pipe insulation so I can rest the chassis without scratching. Performs essentially the same. To each their own!


----------



## simorag (Jul 16, 2019)

Mikey99 said:


> I just spoke with Stefan from Headphone Auditions. He expects the next batch in 2 to 3 weeks. That is why the stand is not on his website yet. You can contact him at stefan@headphoneaudtions.nl to pre-order at €349,- incl. international shipping & handling.



That's a very good looking and nicely engineered stand for the AB1266 indeed.

The key is avoid resting them on the headband in order to prevent loosening of the elastic band and permanent deformation of the leather strap.

In my case I am getting that on an ordinary stand like below, plus I have added a cotton pad underneath the frame center screw (i.e. where the frame is supported) to avoid scratches on both frame and stand.



Of course not as beautiful as @Mikey99 option


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Mikey99 said:


> I just spoke with Stefan from Headphone Auditions. He expects the next batch in 2 to 3 weeks. That is why the stand is not on his website yet. You can contact him at stefan@headphoneaudtions.nl to pre-order at €349,- incl. international shipping & handling.


Wow, that new stand is gorgeous.  I love the design but agree with the others -- I just can't make the mental leap to $400.  Even $100-$200 seems pricey for a stand, but I understand the design, materials, and engineering costs may be substantial.  Anyway, it looks fantastic.


----------



## tholt

Just wondering if anyone who has placed their Abyss on a stand the 'normal' way (i.e. resting on the headband) experienced O rings getting stretched out or breaking as a direct cause? Like, you felt that storing them this way had a direct impact on this?


----------



## Blitzula

How many of you who can't get past the $400 stand price were fine with Abyss pads costing that much?


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jul 16, 2019)

Blitzula said:


> How many of you who can't get past the $400 stand price were fine with Abyss pads costing that much?


If there were a dislike button... I'd press it.


----------



## Blitzula

Litlgi74 said:


> If there were a dislike button... I'd press it.



Why? That's not a valid point? 

I'm not trolling; the price on those pads was outrageous.


----------



## Litlgi74

Blitzula said:


> Why? That's not a valid point?
> 
> I'm not trolling; the price on those pads was outrageous.


Sorry... I thought that might have been interpreted incorrectly. I dislike the price of the stand and the pads.


----------



## Blitzula

Gotcha, no worries.


----------



## Litlgi74

I am surprised Dekoni hasn't made pads for the 1266 yet.


----------



## Tekunda (Jul 16, 2019)

Blitzula said:


> Why? That's not a valid point?
> 
> I'm not trolling; the price on those pads was outrageous.


It's a shame that not not more people realise what rip-off the prices of some headphones are.
For the price of one pair of these pads you will almost get two pairs of KLH Ultimate One headphones, with gorgeous woodwork and  great leather pads.


----------



## GU1DO

Blitzula said:


> How many of you who can't get past the $400 stand price were fine with Abyss pads costing that much?


That's the real difference between companies philosophy and how they treat there customers after sale , 
For example the Raal Requisite SR-1A both drivers cost 350$ and here just the foam pads cost 400$


----------



## Tekunda (Jul 16, 2019)

GU1DO said:


> That's the real difference between companies philosophy and how they treat there customers after sale ,
> For example the Raal Requisite SR-1A both drivers cost 350$ and here just the foam pads cost 400$


Anybody can look up the KH Ultimate One. They totally resemble the ZMF Verite.
If a company is able to sell a headphone for $289 with great looking woodwork, leather headband, etc, the cost of material in order to build such a headphone will be less than $100.
And they also have to pay for R&D.
That's why I personally believe that some companies charge obscene prices. And that is probably the reason, why it is not uncommon to buy a brand new hp with a 30% discount, because even the dealers feel that customers are being overcharged.
That's why people were able to offer a 2 months old Susvara for €3100 here recently in the forum sale section. I cannot imagine that a seller is willing to give such a discount for an almost brand new Susvara, if he paid the full list price.


----------



## mulder01

tholt said:


> Just wondering if anyone who has placed their Abyss on a stand the 'normal' way (i.e. resting on the headband) experienced O rings getting stretched out or breaking as a direct cause? Like, you felt that storing them this way had a direct impact on this?


I kept mine on the justmobile stand for quite a while (a year?) and you get a couple of crease marks in the leather because the bit they sit on is flat, so I switched to the Woo one and it slowly went away. 
When you consider how much those elastic bands are stretched already, you're probably not adding much to it by resting the headphone on it.


----------



## FLTWS

Woo double header stand (($80.00) and $3.00 worth of built up layers of 3M weather stripping from back when I compared the CC and TC, .

Apr 27, 2019 at 3:07 PM
 Post #8142 of 8545






TC is in the front.


----------



## tholt

Blitzula said:


> Why? That's not a valid point?
> 
> I'm not trolling; the price on those pads was outrageous.



+1


----------



## jlbrach

Blitzula said:


> How many of you who can't get past the $400 stand price were fine with Abyss pads costing that much?



kinda of apples and oranges since the pads whether overpriced or not do positively impact the sound....


----------



## cj3209

Tekunda said:


> Anybody can look up the KH Ultimate One. They totally resemble the ZMF Verite.
> If a company is able to sell a headphone for $289 with great looking woodwork, leather headband, etc, the cost of material in order to build such a headphone will be less than $100.
> And they also have to pay for R&D.
> That's why I personally believe that some companies charge obscene prices. And that is probably the reason, why it is not uncommon to buy a brand new hp with a 30% discount, because even the dealers feel that customers are being overcharged.
> That's why people were able to offer a 2 months old Susvara for €3100 here recently in the forum sale section. I cannot imagine that a seller is willing to give such a discount for an almost brand new Susvara, if he paid the full list price.


I'm not in the business of selling headphones but even I know that making items in-house and paying fair wages here in the US is vastly different from buying labor-cheap overseas products that take advantage of current US tariffs, ie Chinese products.

I couldn't give a rat's you know what about headphone stands; if you can't afford them, dont buy them.  Just like I don't complain about my friends buying overpriced garbage cars from Germany, ie Mercedes S-class, etc.

Let's stay on topic here.

Thanks.


----------



## JLoud

For perspective, I had a great experience with Abyss customer service today. I emailed a question about the new TC drivers and they responded very quickly. Took the time to answer my questions. I am very pleased with their explanations. I have always been willing to pay a premium for top notch service. To me it is worth it. If it isn't to someone else then they are free to shop elsewhere. That's why there is a huge range of prices and services. To each his own.


----------



## Zhanming057

cj3209 said:


> I'm not in the business of selling headphones but even I know that making items in-house and paying fair wages here in the US is vastly different from buying labor-cheap overseas products that take advantage of current US tariffs, ie Chinese products.
> 
> I couldn't give a rat's you know what about headphone stands; if you can't afford them, dont buy them.  Just like I don't complain about my friends buying overpriced garbage cars from Germany, ie Mercedes S-class, etc.
> 
> ...



You're thinking that the tariffs benefit overseas products? Or that COL for skilled workers in Buffalo, NY is higher than municipal Shenzhen? 

This isn't the 80s anymore. Hifiman has disgusting margins for cans sold here, but that's mostly because they cheap out on materials.


----------



## GU1DO

JLoud said:


> For perspective, I had a great experience with Abyss customer service today. I emailed a question about the new TC drivers and they responded very quickly. Took the time to answer my questions. I am very pleased with their explanations. I have always been willing to pay a premium for top notch service. To me it is worth it. If it isn't to someone else then they are free to shop elsewhere. That's why there is a huge range of prices and services. To each his own.


hmmm , interesting because lately i don't get any response from them.


----------



## me2621a

Hey Guys,
What are people using for after market cables? I bought a set of cables from C3 Audio, and while they improved my Stellia they seemed to suck the life out of the Abyss 1266 Phi CC compared with the stock cable. I am hoping there is a cable out there that is similar in sound to the stock cable, but that does not cost $1300 for a 14ft run. 

Thanks guys!


----------



## cj3209

me2621a said:


> Hey Guys,
> What are people using for after market cables? I bought a set of cables from C3 Audio, and while they improved my Stellia they seemed to suck the life out of the Abyss 1266 Phi CC compared with the stock cable. I am hoping there is a cable out there that is similar in sound to the stock cable, but that does not cost $1300 for a 14ft run.
> 
> Thanks guys!


The stock cables are pretty good and I think you would have to spend quite a bit to improve on the sound.  What do you find lacking on the stock cables?


----------



## me2621a

cj3209 said:


> The stock cables are pretty good and I think you would have to spend quite a bit to improve on the sound.  What do you find lacking on the stock cables?



Length, I need a 15ft cable due to the position of my headphone amps and my chair.


----------



## cj3209

Outside of the sound bleed, the 1266 phi cc's are the best headphones I've ever heard, connected to either V281 amp or Broadway amp and the Metrum Pavane...oof...Game Over...

I just can't listen too loudly with my family members...arggg...

...back to the music...


----------



## jlbrach

try the formula s...even better!


----------



## cj3209

jlbrach said:


> try the formula s...even better!


Please dont tempt me...lol


----------



## astrostar59

After a few quick opinions. I wanted a few opinions on the Abyss Phi CC v the LCD4 200 ohm model. Preferably from guys who have both. I am trying to understand the benefits of switching to the Abyss Phi, or even having both.
My setup is pretty solid, Aries Cerat Kassandra DAC which is R2R and tubed, then either the V281 HP amp or my Aries Cerat Genus integrated tube speaker amp, which has a tap at the back for HPs.

I left the Stax 009 & Carbon amp camp 2 years back, and glad I did. The LCD4 is so realistic and smooth, no fatigue, great bass and mids. The treble is very good, and details are all their. but it is not the fastest on the planet. Finding a HP that does everything 100% is probably impossible?

So my question is, cost out of the equation, which HP is the preferred, and why? I have heard the Abyss CC at Munich 2018 on the JPS Labs stand, so on their amp. It was difficult to tell but sounded promising. To drill down I think it needs someone who has both at home for the in-depth A/B compares.

Any help would be great guys. I have asked the same question over on the LCD4 thread.


----------



## astrostar59

As a non Abyss owner, when did the Phi drivers start being used? 

I think the CC (pads and finish change) was later? Then the TC had different drivers and size of driver?


----------



## simorag (Jul 19, 2019)

astrostar59 said:


> As a non Abyss owner, when did the Phi drivers start being used?
> 
> I think the CC (pads and finish change) was later? Then the TC had different drivers and size of driver?



Phi drivers were introduced in Q1 2017, then CC followed around mid 2018 and finally the Phi TC on February 2019. Note that the drivers of the Phi TC are a new design but share the same size (66mm) of the Phi. However, the machining of the driver's housing within the aluminum frame on the Phi TC is different according to posts from Joe.


----------



## astrostar59

Thanks for that simorag. Is there any marks on the housing to show a Phi to non Phi? I ask as I was thinking of buying a used Abyss, but have the feeling it may be a non Phi unit.


----------



## simorag

astrostar59 said:


> Thanks for that simorag. Is there any marks on the housing to show a Phi to non Phi? I ask as I was thinking of buying a used Abyss, but have the feeling it may be a non Phi unit.



This is easy … just ask the seller a photo like the one below


----------



## astrostar59

Thanks, that worked. It was indeed a pre Phi model. Search continues...


----------



## astrostar59

OK. probably a noob question. Cables.

I don't see any posts talking about the lite package supplied Abyss cable. Has anyone tried after market cables v this cable? I use a very nice all silver Norne Audio cable on my LCD4 so may try that with an adapter. Any thoughts on this?


----------



## me2621a

astrostar59 said:


> OK. probably a noob question. Cables.
> 
> I don't see any posts talking about the lite package supplied Abyss cable. Has anyone tried after market cables v this cable? I use a very nice all silver Norne Audio cable on my LCD4 so may try that with an adapter. Any thoughts on this?



I have a light version with the standard cable and in my opinion/experience the standard cable is very good (compared to most standard cables). I sit 15ft from my amps when listening due to the way my room is setup so I needed an after market cable. I tried a C3 universal cable (~$700) and a Moon Audio silver dragon cable ($690), the c3 cable was to neutral/dark (did wonders for my other headphones) and the silver dragon cable came close to the stock cable but took away a bit of the sound stage. I am actually probably going to posts my 1266 CC next week for sale as it seems that you have to spend some serious money on a cable (possibly in the range of your Norne) to get equivalent or better performance to the stock cable and my cable budget tops out at about $1k haha.


----------



## simorag

astrostar59 said:


> OK. probably a noob question. Cables.
> 
> I don't see any posts talking about the lite package supplied Abyss cable. Has anyone tried after market cables v this cable? I use a very nice all silver Norne Audio cable on my LCD4 so may try that with an adapter. Any thoughts on this?



Hello!

I did a comparison of a few very good aftermarket cables in the following two posts:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-444#post-14261937
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-510#post-14797813

TL;DR - Stock is very good, DHC Prion4 is the best I tried for detail and transparency, Superconductor - what I ended up with - is almost as transparent as the Prion4 but with more organic sound and slightly more emotional vocals.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Visit our YouTube channel


----------



## rsbrsvp

me2621a said:


> I have a light version with the standard cable and in my opinion/experience the standard cable is very good (compared to most standard cables). I sit 15ft from my amps when listening due to the way my room is setup so I needed an after market cable. I tried a C3 universal cable (~$700) and a Moon Audio silver dragon cable ($690), the c3 cable was to neutral/dark (did wonders for my other headphones) and the silver dragon cable came close to the stock cable but took away a bit of the sound stage. I am actually probably going to posts my 1266 CC next week for sale as it seems that you have to spend some serious money on a cable (possibly in the range of your Norne) to get equivalent or better performance to the stock cable and my cable budget tops out at about $1k haha.



Interesting.   I purchased a t2 pure silver cable (14 FT.) from Ted Allen for around $300.  I believe it was on sale.   It increased detail and transparency relative to the stock by a noticeable amount.  No grain or harshness at all.


----------



## FLTWS

rsbrsvp said:


> Interesting.   I purchased a t2 pure silver cable (14 FT.) from Ted Allen for around $300.  I believe it was on sale.   It increased detail and transparency relative to the stock by a noticeable amount.  No grain or harshness at all.



My recent experience as well with all silver (my first one), can't say why that should be and it's still early on in use. The top to bottom cleanness, tight bass control (tighter than some of my copper options) which reaches all the way down, and the clarity in the  highs make for a highly detailed listening experience. Perhaps some of the air of all copper is missing and I've not listened for sound stage characteristics other than imaging which is precise, but I find HP's never as good as speakers in a room properly set up when it comes to sound stage. But its apples and oranges so.... But phones do have advantages of their own that speakers do not. It's nice to have options to listen with. I was actually expecting some harshness with some of my 60's and 70's classical recordings but was surprised when it didn't happen. I do need to get a lot more hours of experience with all silver.


----------



## simorag

*My first (noob) attempt with speaker amps and Abyss Phi TC*

I have recently sold my XI Audio stack (Formula S w/ Powerman) in order to move to an amp which I can use for both my Phi TC and high sensitivity loudspeakers.

I have already booked / planned a few auditions in the next few weeks, but in the meantime, I decided to give a chance to my 25 years old Audio Note OTO, a push-pull (4x EL84) class A tube amplifier with 12W on 8 Ohm.






I am sure the Oto designer never thought it could be used for driving a headphone, and that was apparent as soon as I plugged in the Abyss – via an XLR > banana adapter – into the speaker taps, and I was welcomed by a clearly audible background noise even at zero volume.

I tried grounding the amp and, while the buzz I could hear from the outside disappeared almost completely, the background noise through the drivers remained.

First lesson learned: don’t take for granted that the relatively low sensitivity of the AB-1266 is a protection against background noise. Hopefully, modern speaker tube amps will perform better than my Oto in this respect.

Second lesson learned for me: even with a modest 12W on 8Ohm, I had relatively small volume knob rotation available before getting to excessive loudness levels. With the DAVE in pre mode (-3dB fixed volume, 3V output over RCA), I could only use less than 20% of volume.

Obviously, there is more than W and Ohms to consider to project the driving capabilities of a speaker amp to the Abyss. I mean, by simply scaling 12W on 8ohm to 47Ohm (Phi TC impedance) I estimated about 2W of power, i.e. less than the Formula S, but this is obviously not the case ...

Can you experts out there please explain what is going on to this noob here?

Coming to the sound, the presentation via the Oto was apparently different, with a thicker, denser character, especially in the lower midrange down to sub-bass region.

Significantly less air but, strangely, an additional perceived depth and (slightly) width of the soundstage.

The upper midrange / lower treble smoothening from the vintage tube amp design was actually not there as I expected. Vocals were a bit sweeter but not much different from DAVE direct.

The most dramatic change in tonal balance was the bass response, with an emphasized mass and longer decay. A slower bass, less defined, whereas very enjoyable with certain tracks.

Dynamic changes are generally slower, but with a few tracks where the Formula S and the DAVE alone clipped (e.g. Funeral March for Rikard Nordraak - Reference Recordings - my go-to track for visceral dynamics), the Oto had no issues. Actually, the thunderous tympani strokes at 1:10 are the best I have heard from headphones to date.

Anyway, I definitely prefer the DAVE direct over the Oto overall, plus the background noise is not tolerable for longer listening sessions, so I am afraid my good old audio companion from my University times has to move out of my rack again.


----------



## GuyForkes

simorag said:


> Second lesson learned for me: even with a modest 12W on 8Ohm, I had relatively small volume knob rotation available before getting to excessive loudness levels. With the DAVE in pre mode (-3dB fixed volume, 3V output over RCA), I could only use less than 20% of volume.
> 
> Obviously, there is more than W and Ohms to consider to project the driving capabilities of a speaker amp to the Abyss. I mean, by simply scaling 12W on 8ohm to 47Ohm (Phi TC impedance) I estimated about 2W of power, i.e. less than the Formula S, but this is obviously not the case ...
> 
> Can you experts out there please explain what is going on to this noob here?



This! I have the same question as I'm also looking for a tube power amp for Abyss TC/Susvara. Most tube power amps will output the same amount of power regardless of whether its into 4ohms, 8ohms or 16ohms. But what happens when it's 50ohms or 60ohms? I know SS amp output power is reduced in proportion to the resistance.

Thanks for your impressions simorag. I think the newer amps are a lot more silent. I should soon recieve the adapter which I ordered to allow me to use the Abyss TC with the Stereo 100 which is a modern tube amp. Will report back on the results.


----------



## mulder01

GuyForkes said:


> I know SS amp output power is reduced in proportion to the resistance.



I thought it was as simple as ohm's law as well, but this was the specs from my old v281:

2700 mW (600 Ohm) 
5600 mW (100 Ohm) 
4200 mW (50 Ohm) 
2800 mW (32 Ohm) 
1500 mW (16 Ohm)

So I guess it's not that straightforward.

I know people carry on about speaker amps - especially for the susvara, but I tried it the other day off a moon 230 (1w into 50 ohms) and I don't think I turned the volume above about half, so I'm not convinced it's necessary.


----------



## x RELIC x (Jul 23, 2019)

mulder01 said:


> I thought it was as simple as ohm's law as well, but this was the specs from my old v281:
> 
> 2700 mW (600 Ohm)
> 5600 mW (100 Ohm)
> ...



Those figures suggest Current limiting under 100 Ohms. Voltage*Current=Power, so if the amp manufacturer limits the Current then the total power will be reduced. Current limiting is more common than generally known.


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 23, 2019)

I think one of the reasons for using the Powerman has to do with current delivery over the Formula S by itself. And it sounds spectacular to me and not just with the 1266, my Utopia and HD800 have never sounded better than thru the pairing. I also get great results with my PrimaLuna EVO400 that uses all eight power tubes thru the output transformers to drive the the SE hp output but uses a divider network to get the power output levels down to safer levels for driving headphones.


----------



## astrostar59

Interesting. I get no issues with my Aries Cerat Genus, it is totally silent. It has lED volume readout, as relays, not a pot. I tend to run my 95dB speakers at 20 for medium / loud listening level. It goes up to 60 on the scale.

And with my LCD4s plugged into the Genus via the 6.3 SE output socket, I also use 20 for the level - medium / loud listening.


----------



## jlbrach

FLTWS said:


> I think one of the reasons for using the Powerman has to do with current delivery over the Formula S by itself. And it sounds spectacular to me and not just with the 1266, my Utopia and HD800 have never sounded better than thru the pairing. I also get great results with my PrimaLuna EVO400 that uses all eight power tubes thru the output transformers to drive the the SE hp output but uses a divider network to get the power output levels down to safer levels for driving headphones.



I also love the combo....i find it fantastic with the TC and actually a bit overpowering with the LCD-4 although still outstanding.....I am not sure how one could use a powerful amp with the Utopia....the combo is magnificent with the susvara as well....the LCD-4 does well straight out of the dave


----------



## astrostar59 (Jul 24, 2019)

SETs sound best to my ears, and Push Pull behind that. We don't need tons of power obviously, but enough to create the dynamics and depth. IMO I think the components and general SQ on a well designed speaker amp is going to exceed most HP amps. If you have medium to low efficiency cans, then it makes sense to try a speaker amp. But one that has very low residual noise, a pure and simple signal path and purity in the gain stage, of which a SET does that very nicely.


----------



## cj3209

Appreciate the bold people trying out speaker amps for their headphones.  I may try it someday but my Broadway headphone amp and 1266 phi cc coupled with the pavane are just a superb match.  I'm focusing on the music now...


----------



## JLoud

Any suggestions for a hard shell travel case for the 1266?


----------



## Ciggavelli

JLoud said:


> Any suggestions for a hard shell travel case for the 1266?


I've been looking into this myself.  I think the best (and possibly only) option is to get a customizable Pelican Case. 

https://www.amazon.com/Pelican-1450...ocphy=9027719&hvtargid=pla-435644386450&psc=1

I need to look into exact dimensions, etc., but it should work and be better than a traditional headphone case (my LCD2s had the pelican case, and it worked pretty well, aside from being big and awkward).


----------



## astrostar59

New Abyss owner
Hi all. I took delivery of my new Abyss Phi TC today. So far I am very impressed / excited about the performance.

A few questions on the fit. I probably have a smallish to medium head. Initially The frame was fully closed, and I put the cups with the seam at 10 o'clock. The cups felt to me quite high on contact pressure, almost the same as my LCD4. So I tried many different positions, and finally seemed to settle on fully open frame, and the cup seem at 11 o'clock. The point of main contact of the cups is above my ear, and middle and lower area beyond my ear is feather light touch. In fact the bottom of the cups is floating maybe 2mm of my face.

This position seems to have the best soundstage, bass extension and 3D presentation. 

Does this sound like the same setting you guys use? I wonder if the drivers need a bit of gap to flow, enable extension. I 'normal' tighter seal would make the drivers have to work against the pressure created inside the cup cavity? Or am I on the wrong track here?

How do they burn in? Does the signature change at all? I wanted to know what to expect going forward.

I don't have my LCD4s here, and am driving the Abyss of my lower DAC, a modded Audio Note 4.1. But I must say, I like the Abyss a LOT. I can understand why it has such a big following. It has a unique sound I think, a blend between the LCD4's bass and mids, and the speed and transparency of the Stax 009 driven by the BHSE. But so far, without the boldness to the treble or the forward and synthetic presentation I found with my 009.


----------



## astrostar59

*New Abyss owner*
Hi all. I took delivery of my new Abyss Phi TC today. So far I am very impressed / excited about the performance.

A few questions on the fit. I probably have a smallish to medium head. Initially The frame was fully closed, and I put the cups with the seam at 10 o'clock. The cups felt to me quite high on contact pressure, almost the same as my LCD4. So I tried many different positions, and finally seemed to settle on fully open frame, and the cup seem at 11 o'clock. The point of main contact of the cups is above my ear, and middle and lower area beyond my ear is feather light touch. In fact the bottom of the cups is floating maybe 2mm of my face.

This position seems to have the best soundstage, bass extension and 3D presentation. 

Does this sound like the same setting you guys use? I wonder if the drivers need a bit of gap to flow, enable extension. I 'normal' tighter seal would make the drivers have to work against the pressure created inside the cup cavity? Or am I on the wrong track here?

How do they burn in? Does the signature change at all? I wanted to know what to expect going forward.

I don't have my LCD4s here, and am driving the Abyss off my lower DAC, a modded Audio Note 4.1 and the V281, not my Aries Cerat Genus. 
But I must say, I like the Abyss a LOT. I can understand why it has such a big following. It has a unique sound I think, a blend between the LCD4's bass and mids, and the speed and transparency of the Stax 009 driven by the BHSE. But so far, without the coldness to the treble or the forward and synthetic presentation I found with my 009.


----------



## szymonsays

astrostar59 said:


> New Abyss owner
> Hi all. I took delivery of my new Abyss Phi TC today. So far I am very impressed / excited about the performance.
> 
> A few questions on the fit. I probably have a smallish to medium head. Initially The frame was fully closed, and I put the cups with the seam at 10 o'clock. The cups felt to me quite high on contact pressure, almost the same as my LCD4. So I tried many different positions, and finally seemed to settle on fully open frame, and the cup seem at 11 o'clock. The point of main contact of the cups is above my ear, and middle and lower area beyond my ear is feather light touch. In fact the bottom of the cups is floating maybe 2mm of my face.
> ...



This is exactly how i feel about the Abyss house sound!


----------



## astrostar59

So back to the fit, how much contact / pressure do you have your zero'd at?


----------



## tholt (Jul 26, 2019)

Your fit sounds similar to mine. There is a video made by Abyss posted somewhere (maybe do a youtube search) that shows the basics of adjustment. In general for me, expanding the headphone frame increases air and soundstage, contracting closes the stage a bit but gives more intimacy. I've been playing around with fit ever since I got them, I don't think there is ever a 'right' way, it almost depends on the recording or mood. I had my pads anywhere from 9 oclock to 11 or 11:30. Going down the clock increases the air gap on the bottom (space between pad and face) which acts kind of like a bass port = more bass. I'd just play around with rotating the cups and increasing/decreasing the width of the frame. It's all individual.

FYI I currently have the frame pretty much all the way out and pads are at 10 oclock. The pads are very lightly touching my head at the tops, there is a slight gap at the bottom and the whole thing can swing front to back pretty freely.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Hi there, I am also a fairly new abyss ab-1266 tc owner and experienced first hand how hard it can be to find the right setting. To be honest, at the beginning I found these headphones REALLY uncomfortable but it is much better now, I set the pads to 11 o’clock position. Initially I had them float at my ears, but I now adjusted them to envelop my ears, in traditional headphone style. I find that keeping the pads too far away creates distortions in the mids. I also bent the metal frame quite a lot, otherwise the pads would put too much pressure on my ears. Don’t worry bending, it wont break (I guess).


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 26, 2019)

I have to fully extend my Phi's (bought 11/17) or they wont fit over my head and I'm reluctant to do too much bending to the corners and changing the angle of the driver to my ears.
At the 3 o'clock position I get the highest pressure and it's almost all above the ear but not excessive. At the 12 o,clock position the pressure is equalized all the way around the ear and the pressure is light.
On my head / jaw every step between the 3 and 12 o'clock positions (looking into the left driver) changes pressure locations incrementally as I move between the two extremes.
But everyone's head / jaw will be different so you got to figure it out over time for yourself. It's possible that one side could be 1 position different from the other for the most comfortable fit and / or best sound.
Your lucky if you don't have to fully expand the head band like I do, you should have a lot more options to find a good fit.
There's no one right setting, you figure it out over time, and I even like to change it up every now and then for a change of pace.
The Abyss is the only phone I'm aware of that provides so much flexibility when it comes to fit, your not stuck with one fixed position. I guess it could be considered a pro and a con at the same time for someone who doesn't like fiddling.


----------



## MacedonianHero

astrostar59 said:


> *New Abyss owner*
> Hi all. I took delivery of my new Abyss Phi TC today. So far I am very impressed / excited about the performance.
> 
> A few questions on the fit. I probably have a smallish to medium head. Initially The frame was fully closed, and I put the cups with the seam at 10 o'clock. The cups felt to me quite high on contact pressure, almost the same as my LCD4. So I tried many different positions, and finally seemed to settle on fully open frame, and the cup seem at 11 o'clock. The point of main contact of the cups is above my ear, and middle and lower area beyond my ear is feather light touch. In fact the bottom of the cups is floating maybe 2mm of my face.
> ...



Congrats! I was actually talking to Joe from Abyss this afternoon and I mentioned that I found the TC the most "stat-like" non-stat headphones I've ever heard. Throw in wonderful ortho bass, beautiful mids and refined treble and add a dash of some of the very best sound staging I've heard, they are definitely one of my favourite headphones of all time! Don't worry about a tighter seal, I've found that these headphones sound best loose-fitting.


----------



## GU1DO

JLoud said:


> Any suggestions for a hard shell travel case for the 1266?


Same question ,, though i have the Deluxe edition with the that fancy leather bag but i want more practical option .


----------



## simorag (Jul 27, 2019)

astrostar59 said:


> So I tried many different positions, and finally seemed to settle on fully open frame, and the cup seem at 11 o'clock. The point of main contact of the cups is above my ear, and middle and lower area beyond my ear is feather light touch. In fact the bottom of the cups is floating maybe 2mm of my face.
> 
> This position seems to have the best soundstage, bass extension and 3D presentation.



I also have a smallish head and it seems we went to a similar fame / pads arrangement.
My setup is shown in this post.

After almost 2 years of AB-1266 ownership, the fit is now very plug-and-play for me and I don't need to fiddle anymore. But, as @FLTWS has written, it is a nice option you still have at your disposal - once you realize what are the effects - to slightly change the sound presentation when you feel like it.



astrostar59 said:


> How do they burn in? Does the signature change at all? I wanted to know what to expect going forward.



I noticed some changes in the first 50h or so, where the bass tightened a bit, the mids and treble became even more transparent, loosing that small hint of 'nasality' I heard straight out of the box.
Can't exclude it was my brain / hearing burning-in, though


----------



## astrostar59

*OK, these things are really rocking now.* 




 

Many more positions and tweaking. I came back to my position last night, with contact above my ear against my glasses, and really floating over my ears, minimal contact.

And the top frame swivelled inwards about 4-5°. Damb the soundstage is HUGE, cavernous, I can sit in it and be lost, like a massive cavern 100 feet deep and 500 feet wide, with musicians floating around the space. It is truly a breakthrough headphone this thing.

It reminds me a bit of the Jecklin Float, but without the hollow suckout and low bass issues.

Compared to my LCD4, I still love that HP and have a well established soft spot for it. It is more intimate, calmer and warmer, like a jazz club, a big leather sofa. It has it's place for sure. The Abyss has more insight to the event, masses of information and texture, no harshness or noticeable peaks or troughs. I have my DAC feeding the V281 amp via Roon, with no DSP. On the LCD4 I used the Audeze DSP and added +1.5 at 4-6K. The Abyss is basically straight through. This in turn removed a loss using DSD and it is not a free lunch, some SQ is lost. The bass on the LCD4 is the thing, it is centre stage. The mids flow well into it, and it's treble is lower energy and more recessed. Detail is there, but it is harder to follow. This in turn emphasis the bass and it takes over slightly. There is a place for that signature, and it is super forgiving on lower quality sources. I can't tell until I get the Abyss hooked up to my main DAC and Genus amp, but I get the impression it is scaling really well. For example some tracks really pop out from others, i.e.e there is another level of joy I haven't heard yet. This makes me think the Abyss will take off on my Genus tube amp, give it more to work with and a great match. Tube treble has always done for me. My DAC I am using now is tubed output R2R, but is well below my Kassandra DAC.

The speed of the Abyss matches my Stax 009, and am 100% sure of that. But the way it plays is very un-stat like, it doesn't have the floaty ethereal treble of the 009 which I never got to grips with totally. In other words, I am more convinced by the Abyss, the illusion is more complete, less hi-fi.

So, a happy bunny. The fit is a bit of a new aspect, even though I have owned Stax for 25 years, and planers and others for 5 years. The fit thing is well worth the effort. It may put some newbies off, and bug others. But a bit of patience pays of big time. Well done Joe and the guys at JPS Labs. I can't imagine getting beyond this level of performance with anything else, even the HE-1. 

Off to Can-Jam tomorrow, too much fun being had.....


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Jul 27, 2019)

Hi there, I plan to buy some aftermarket cable for the Abyss AB-1266 TC. I am very excited to get rid of the stock cable, I think it actually  sounds great but I do not like its feel, which is an important part of the listening enjoyment. I do not like to have too much stuff lying around, and I know i won’t use it once the aftermarket cable arrives. So, do you think the cable is sellable and how much one could sell it for?


----------



## jlbrach

the stock cable is surprisingly good...you have to spend a lot of money to improve on it although I do agree that it isnt the most comfortable to use


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Jul 27, 2019)

jlbrach said:


> the stock cable is surprisingly good...you have to spend a lot of money to improve on it although I do agree that it isnt the most comfortable to use



Agreed - no issue at all with sound. The only problem is also with my setup location, and the way the two separate wires tangle. I could of course just tape them together


----------



## jlbrach

total agreement about the twin wires, i also tape them together or else they get caught everywhere


----------



## mulder01

I put a very slight twist in mine to keep them together then a small piece of velcro at the headphone end to make that Y shape.  Or you could use heatshrink, spiral wrap etc.
I don't think resale on the stock cable would be great because they fit the 1266 only and everyone who has a 1266 has it already, regardless of whether or not they're using it.  It will be something to keep in the drawer in case you ever sell I think.


----------



## Litlgi74

I picked up a 6' T2 silver litz cable from Ted Allen at Headphonelounge. No more tangles, snags, or cables on the floor to trip on.


----------



## tholt

jlbrach said:


> the stock cable is surprisingly good



I don't think it's that surprising.... the other thing these guys do is make cables


----------



## tholt

My cable came with neat little thread wraps every 18" or so to keep them bundled. I bought my first set used, so wondered if this is how the came? Sounds like maybe not... However they got this way, I'm happy with the result


----------



## drew911d

I have some cables from Ted, for my K10.   Definitely the most awewome cable upgrade vs cost.  It's awesome what he can do with cables.  If you're looking for options, I think Ted's cables are the best option to consider.  His cables perform so great, and for a fraction of the cost. His simplicity to just use the best materials, is wow.  And to do what he does for the cost.  You all want to know where to buy the best cables price included and all?  Talk to Ted


----------



## astrostar59

Litlgi74 said:


> I picked up a 6' T2 silver litz cable from Ted Allen at Headphonelounge. No more tangles, snags, or cables on the floor to trip on.



So, hows it compare to your stock cable? Has the sound balance changed or it is subtle, sideways shift?


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jul 29, 2019)

astrostar59 said:


> So, hows it compare to your stock cable? Has the sound balance changed or it is subtle, sideways shift?


Being 100% honest... I don't hear much of a difference at all when compared to the stock cable. I purchased the cable specifically to clean up the mess on the floor that the stock cable leaves when the headphones are not in use.

Ted says... He uses the same wire manufacturer as Double Helix and Norne... so its the best available.


----------



## astrostar59

OK, thanks. Good to know the stock is good already.


----------



## Litlgi74

astrostar59 said:


> OK, thanks. Good to know the stock is good already.


Some, on this forum... Have even said that the upgraded super conductor cable does little to change the stock sound.

YMMV


----------



## spotforscott

Litlgi74 said:


> Some, on this forum... Have even said that the upgraded super conductor cable does little to change the stock sound.
> 
> YMMV


Wow, SC does little to change the stock sound? Nothing could be further from the truth.


----------



## Litlgi74

spotforscott said:


> Wow, SC does little to change the stock sound? Nothing could be further from the truth.


I hope you're right... But others have said they didn't hear much of an upgrade. I haven't tried it yet.


----------



## cj3209

Litlgi74 said:


> I hope you're right... But others have said they didn't hear much of an upgrade. I haven't tried it yet.


Maybe it's not $2,200 worth of improvement...just saying...


----------



## spotforscott

cj3209 said:


> Maybe it's not $2,200 worth of improvement...just saying...


For me, it definitely was worth the $$$ but YMMV. In fact, I might have sold the Abyss if it weren't for the SC cable.


----------



## tholt

astrostar59 said:


> OK, thanks. Good to know the stock is good already.



It's hard to imagine the stock cable on a $5k headphone — made by a company who started and continues as a cable manufacturer — isn't good?! It's difficult to understand how people would think it's not. And if that truth weren't enough, so many people have already reported that it is. Whether or not you _like it_ is subjective, but it's plenty resolving, clean, fast and extended — also characteristics of the headphone itself. It has to be assumed that the headphone with the stock cable is how JPS tested and ultimately approved its sound signature. 

FYI https://jpslabs.com/pages/alumiloy-conductor?_pos=1&_sid=a1f5edc48&_ss=r


----------



## spotforscott

tholt said:


> It's hard to imagine the stock cable on a $5k headphone — made by a company who started and continues as a cable manufacturer — isn't good?! It's difficult to understand how people would think it's not. And if that truth weren't enough, so many people have already reported that it is. Whether or not you _like it_ is subjective, but it's plenty resolving, clean, fast and extended — also characteristics of the headphone itself. It has to be assumed that the headphone with the stock cable is how JPS tested and ultimately approved its sound signature.
> 
> FYI https://jpslabs.com/pages/alumiloy-conductor?_pos=1&_sid=a1f5edc48&_ss=r



There is no question that the stock cable is a very good cable but it's not my "cup of tea". It's too thin and the mid-range is too recessed for my taste. Abyss would not have produced the SC cable if the base cable could not be improved upon and those improvements were exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## Litlgi74

Sorry if I started trouble.


----------



## jlbrach

the issue with the stock cable is aesthetic not musical IMHO


----------



## Litlgi74

jlbrach said:


> the issue with the stock cable is aesthetic not musical IMHO


I agree


----------



## mulder01

tholt said:


> It's hard to imagine the stock cable on a $5k headphone — made by a company who started and continues as a cable manufacturer — isn't good?! It's difficult to understand how people would think it's not. And if that truth weren't enough, so many people have already reported that it is. Whether or not you _like it_ is subjective, but it's plenty resolving, clean, fast and extended — also characteristics of the headphone itself. It has to be assumed that the headphone with the stock cable is how JPS tested and ultimately approved its sound signature.
> 
> FYI https://jpslabs.com/pages/alumiloy-conductor?_pos=1&_sid=a1f5edc48&_ss=r


Yeah, at least, when I bought mine, it come with a bit of paper saying that the headphone had been tuned with that specific set of cables and not to change them or you will not get the intended experience.


----------



## cj3209 (Jul 31, 2019)

spotforscott said:


> There is no question that the stock cable is a very good cable but it's not my "cup of tea". It's too thin and the mid-range is too recessed for my taste. Abyss would not have produced the SC cable if the base cable could not be improved upon and those improvements were exactly what I was looking for.


I have no doubt the SC cable improves upon the sound.  For me (I stress, for me), there are other aspects of my music chain that impact the sound more for $2,200.  Like my DAC or amp...

But it's all good and I appreciate confirmation that the SC cable improves the sound.

Back to my music...


----------



## jlbrach

I was initially a skeptic when it came to cables but over time i have belatedly come to value the worth of a high end cable....not necessarily one more expensive than the underlying HP however lol


----------



## mt-hifidelity (Aug 5, 2019)

This headphone has such high resolution that it poses a real challenge to every other item in the chain.  

I really like the SC cables even though they are pricey.  To my ears they expand the sound quite noticeably.  As soon as I found them on the used market I bought them for both the Abyss Phi and Diana Phi.


----------



## kelvinwsy

I cannot speak for the SuperConductor cable upgrade.. I went for a Danacable Lazuli Reference and it was a great improvemt over Stock cable.. Stock cable gad this dry midrange and highs were not so crystalline clear and extended.. Bass was not impactful enough! All that changed with the Danacable Lazuli Reference..Rich mids Extended highs and bass that punches your head.


----------



## kelvinwsy

Dont buy new ! I got mine used on headfi here for about 35% off
Cables are the final 5-8% for tuning the SQ of a system.. Not panacea for flaws in upstream or downstream component mismatches. I find reducing noise levels.. be it EMF/RFI, Ground potential differentials, cleans up the Sonic SQ window allowing u to hear(see) minor details, accentuate the mids and bass from the Highs..Hey SQ Jumps.. 
I recently opened up my Phono preamp.. a lowly Jolida JD9 and applied Sound deadening materials to the Casing.. Every musical detail popped up, differences became more pronounced.. But the clincher was when I applied mumetal sheets to cover the toroidal power transformer..the Sound became louder by 0.5 db(I had to lower the volume on my preamp which uses trimmed resistors for volume controls) 
Then heard some buzzing.. I know from experience the was some extraneous earth grounding interference. 
Opened up and removed the shielding ..
Fired it up Hey what happened to the Sound Level???
Put back the mumetal shielding wrapped in thicker insulation .. Fired it up Volume went back up and for better SQ and not funny earthing noise
I upgraded my interconnects to pure silver flat ribbons What am upgrade


----------



## matthewhypolite

Ive read the topic, and i agree that cables should be one of the last upgrades you make. A good amp and dac are Def more important. 

But to my ears the SC cable represent a good upgrade over stock. Like a previous poster, I actually really prefer my abyss with aftermarket cables. The stock just aren't for me. Abyss definitely scales with some better cables. Both my DHC and SC make the abyss sound better.

Price is relative, is the SC worth 2200$ in improvement? In my rig, it 100% does. But would u buy a 2k$ cable to pair with a 5k$ HP to run off off an iPhone? Probs shouldn't. Lol. Maybe take that 2k$ and buy a schiit ragnarok before buying the cable.


----------



## astrostar59

Litlgi74 said:


> I agree



I just spent £10 inc shipping on some 10mm black shrink wrap. I will sleeve up the standard 2 wire cable to be one wire, and leave a Y at the HP end. Should fix it.


----------



## astrostar59

*Anyone heard the Violectric V281 v the Woo Audio WA-5 LE on the 1266 Abyss?*
I heard the Abyss on the WA33 at Can-Jam on Sunday, and it was very nice. Wondering how the WA-5 LE would sound. I like wide band, transparency and not too much warmth / dampening of details. 

The V281 is a great all rounder SS amp, can't really fault it on much, but it isn't a tube amp, so some loss of timbre and realism maybe?

Any feedback would be great guys.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Is anyone aware of a cable comparison review for the Abyss Phi or TC?   I am pretty happy with the SC cable but have seen many mentions of the Danacable Lazuli Reference, and am intrigued how it compares.   Also can anyone weigh in on how long it takes to break in the TC before it reaches optimum sound quality?


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Sorry for all the questions today...just one more....
Can anyone recommend a good transportable battery-powered amp option for the Abyss Phi/TC?  I bought the A&K Kann Cube but the top end was very rolled off so back it goes...   
I am happy with the XI Audio Formula S in my home setup and would love to find something that comes close to that sq, but that's a tall order for a small amp.   I heard the XI Broadway at CanJam but it was hard to gauge the performance auditioning it for a few minutes on the noisy show floor.  Also, its $2300.  Someone recommended the Bakoon HPA-01 but I can't find one to try out and am wary of committing.  Any input would be greatly appreciated!

I also tried the Cavalli-designed Monolith Liquid Spark running off a portable battery pack which is physically small and does a good job with many headphones but still underpowered for the TC.


----------



## ufospls2

mt-hifidelity said:


> Sorry for all the questions today...just one more....
> Can anyone recommend a good transportable battery-powered amp option for the Abyss Phi/TC?  I bought the A&K Kann Cube but the top end was very rolled off so back it goes...
> I am happy with the XI Audio Formula S in my home setup and would love to find something that comes close to that sq, but that's a tall order for a small amp.   I heard the XI Broadway at CanJam but it was hard to gauge the performance auditioning it for a few minutes on the noisy show floor.  Also, its $2300.  Someone recommended the Bakoon HPA-01 but I can't find one to try out and am wary of committing.  Any input would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> I also tried the Cavalli-designed Monolith Liquid Spark running off a portable battery pack which is physically small and does a good job with many headphones but still underpowered for the TC.



iFi Micro iDSD BL.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

ufospls2 said:


> iFi Micro iDSD BL.


Thanks, I did try the iFi but found it a bit flat.  It could have been the DAC section and not the amp, I'm not sure, but I didn't love it.   Still, for what it is, its a remarkably flexible unit.


----------



## tunes

ufospls2 said:


> iFi Micro iDSD BL.


Just curious.  Would it be fair to say that the Senn HD 800S has the largest overall sound stage of any headphone including the Abyss TC??


----------



## Zhanming057

mt-hifidelity said:


> Sorry for all the questions today...just one more....
> Can anyone recommend a good transportable battery-powered amp option for the Abyss Phi/TC?  I bought the A&K Kann Cube but the top end was very rolled off so back it goes...
> I am happy with the XI Audio Formula S in my home setup and would love to find something that comes close to that sq, but that's a tall order for a small amp.   I heard the XI Broadway at CanJam but it was hard to gauge the performance auditioning it for a few minutes on the noisy show floor.  Also, its $2300.  Someone recommended the Bakoon HPA-01 but I can't find one to try out and am wary of committing.  Any input would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> I also tried the Cavalli-designed Monolith Liquid Spark running off a portable battery pack which is physically small and does a good job with many headphones but still underpowered for the TC.



I'm not sure if such a thing exists. 

The closest thing to the Formula S is probably the Broadway. If that's too big and expensive, there's the WA11 which outputs 1.5w into 32 ohms. I don't really think that either is enough for the TC - I'm in the speaker amp camp myself.


----------



## Zhanming057

tunes said:


> Just curious.  Would it be fair to say that the Senn HD 800S has the largest overall sound stage of any headphone including the Abyss TC??



All of the earspeakers (K1000, Mysphere, SR1a, etc.) come ahead of non-earspeakers. Then it's probably the TC followed by the Susvara. The 800S is smaller than these and smaller than some of the high level E-stat implementations, but the staging is definitely pretty good for its price point.


----------



## JLoud

I burned my Tc in for 160 hours then I have put another 25 or so on them. I haven't noticed much if any change since the 160 point. I did notice changes during the initial 150, but nothing huge.


----------



## fredfung28

tunes said:


> Just curious.  Would it be fair to say that the Senn HD 800S has the largest overall sound stage of any headphone including the Abyss TC??


Sr1a has larger soundstage if it’s fully opened, if not it’s a bit larger than abyss Tc. K1000 is similar to sr1a but mysphere is not that wide in soundstage comparing with abyss Tc in my system


----------



## simorag

mt-hifidelity said:


> Is anyone aware of a cable comparison review for the Abyss Phi or TC?   I am pretty happy with the SC cable but have seen many mentions of the Danacable Lazuli Reference, and am intrigued how it compares.   Also can anyone weigh in on how long it takes to break in the TC before it reaches optimum sound quality?



Hello!

I did a comparison of a few very good aftermarket cables in the following two posts:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-444#post-14261937
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-510#post-14797813

TL;DR - Stock is very good, DHC Prion4 is the best I tried for detail and transparency, Danacable Lazuli Reference had great mids but not as transparent and fast as I would have liked, and Superconductor - what I ended up with - is almost as transparent as the Prion4 but with more organic sound and slightly more emotional vocals (close to the Dana in this respect).


----------



## mt-hifidelity

simorag said:


> Hello!
> 
> I did a comparison of a few very good aftermarket cables in the following two posts:
> 
> ...



Thanks Simorag!   I appreciated your post on this topic.   

PS: Nice setup you have... Great components.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I've been A/B testing my Utopias with my TCs, and the TCs are better in almost every aspect, which is kind of blowing my mind, as I thought the Utopias were the pinnacle.  The Utopias have less weight, a smaller sound stage, less clarity (somehow, which is crazy).  I even have gotten used to the loose fitting of the TCs and actually think the TCs are more comfortable.  I put the Utopias on, and everything just seems too confining.  I "feel" the weight of the utopias more than the TCs, which doesn't make sense, as the Utopias are lighter (I think).  I can't really fault the TCs for anything.  It's everything I want in a pair of headphones.  

I haven't tried the Susvaras, but I think they might be the only headphones that reach TC levels (or so I've read).  Maybe I'll trade in the Utopia for some Susvaras....We'll see


----------



## jlbrach

the TC and the susvara are 1a and 1b followed closely by the L D-4 IMHO


----------



## JLoud

I have always wanted to try the Susvara. What does it do better than the LCD4 and Tc? I have the other two and am curious how the Susvara would slot in with the other two?


----------



## cj3209

Zhanming057 said:


> The closest thing to the Formula S is probably the Broadway. If that's too big and expensive, there's the WA11 which outputs 1.5w into 32 ohms. I don't really think that either is enough for the TC - I'm in the speaker amp camp myself.


Lol...you make me want to try out my speaker amp...


----------



## Litlgi74

cj3209 said:


> Lol...you make me want to try out my speaker amp...


I'm going to demo an Anthem STR Integrated this weekend because of him! LOL


----------



## jlbrach

JLoud said:


> I have always wanted to try the Susvara. What does it do better than the LCD4 and Tc? I have the other two and am curious how the Susvara would slot in with the other two?



To be honest there is no best, if you have the proper amp the Susvara is wonderful.....a different listen, much more ethereal than the other 2...more finesse than grunt IMHO....a real treat with acoustic jazz


----------



## matthewhypolite

JLoud said:


> I have always wanted to try the Susvara. What does it do better than the LCD4 and Tc? I have the other two and am curious how the Susvara would slot in with the other two?



Check out my TOTL review in my sig of the TC and Susvara, I've compared both against each other there.


----------



## lambdastorm

From my personal experience hifimans just really like power, be it the HE6, HE5LE or the Susvara. Doesn't matter if it comes from speaker taps or a headphone jack, as long as you feed it more than 10 watts per channel it'll be happy to sing. Abyss on the other hand requires much more finesse. It doesn't just like power it likes fine power, so if you just feed it a couple watts straight from the speaker taps it will sound coarse and shouty.


----------



## JLoud

I will check out the review. Thanks for the link. I currently am using a Woo WA5le. Always thought that would be powerful enough for the Susvara. It has plenty for my Tc. Opinions?


----------



## EndGameSearch (Aug 6, 2019)

JLoud said:


> I will check out the review. Thanks for the link. I currently am using a Woo WA5le. Always thought that would be powerful enough for the Susvara. It has plenty for my Tc. Opinions?


I owned the WA5 LE and it drove both the Phi CC and Susvara very well.  I'm using the Formula S / Powerman for the Phi TC and Susvara now and it too has plenty of power.  I think people get carried away with power requirements for Susvara. Yes, it can apparently scale endlessly as you throw more power at it, but it doesn't take a speaker amp (or 10 watts) to make it sing.  I keep trying to decide which I like better, Susvara or TC.  In reality they are both top of their class and actually complement each other very well.  My favorite is generally the one I'm listening to at the time.   As a side note, I am thrilled with the improvement of TC over CC.  It is not a subtle improvement. 

Joe,

I'm sure it's buried some where in this thread, but can you share any other details on the actual changes you made with TC?  Specifically, did you use a new thinner membrane?  I simply do not remember CC being this incredibly transparent, clear and fast.  Love them!


----------



## mt-hifidelity

I've been wondering about the Susvara as well.   The TC seems head and shoulders above everything else, followed by the Abyss Phi and Diana Phi (in my opinion).  The Audeze hp's are fun but I've always found them dark and lacking that last bit of resolution and soundstage that the Abyss excels at.   
Some of the Hifiman options are good but they are just in a very different class...when I switch to the HE1000SE after using the TC its a letdown.   Sometimes I like its airy quality, and its generally more comfortable, but the TC wins out in every other aspect.    I wonder how much Susvara differs from the HE1000SE...


----------



## EndGameSearch

mt-hifidelity said:


> I've been wondering about the Susvara as well.   The TC seems head and shoulders above everything else, followed by the Abyss Phi and Diana Phi (in my opinion).  The Audeze hp's are fun but I've always found them dark and lacking that last bit of resolution and soundstage that the Abyss excels at.
> Some of the Hifiman options are good but they are just in a very different class...when I switch to the HE1000SE after using the TC its a letdown.   Sometimes I like its airy quality, and its generally more comfortable, but the TC wins out in every other aspect.    I wonder how much Susvara differs from the HE1000SE...


In my view it goes, Phi TC/Susvara then HEKv2 then LCD-4/z.  Diana Phi (which I own as well) are excellent.  I'd place them just ahead or just behind HEKv2.  It's been a while since I've heard the v2 so it's tough to say.  They are very different from one another so I'd gladly take both.   The SE's were a disappointment.  I found them to be more clear than the v2 but less transparent.  It uses some of the tech from Susvara, but it always comes down to compromises in audio.  The improvement in efficiently led to a loss in other areas.  It's still an outstanding HP, but if transparency is a primary focus, then I'd look else where.


----------



## llamaluv

mt-hifidelity said:


> Is anyone aware of a cable comparison review for the Abyss Phi or TC?   I am pretty happy with the SC cable but have seen many mentions of the Danacable Lazuli Reference, and am intrigued how it compares.   Also can anyone weigh in on how long it takes to break in the TC before it reaches optimum sound quality?



I had the Lazuli Reference for the Abyss Phi but didn't particularly care for how it synergized with the Phi compared to the stock cable. It made the headphones sound less lively, which was a deal-breaker for me. It was fully broken in FWIW.


----------



## llamaluv

lambdastorm said:


> From my personal experience hifimans just really like power, be it the HE6, HE5LE or the Susvara. Doesn't matter if it comes from speaker taps or a headphone jack, as long as you feed it more than 10 watts per channel it'll be happy to sing. Abyss on the other hand requires much more finesse. It doesn't just like power it likes fine power, so if you just feed it a couple watts straight from the speaker taps it will sound coarse and shouty.



That's an interesting perspective on the Abyss with speaker amps. I've been actually wanting to get one of the Abyss's again with the intention of driving them with one or two speaker amps this time around, so I'll be keeping your observation in mind...


----------



## GuyForkes (Aug 7, 2019)

So I had recently loaned out my Cayin HA-300 (300B SET headamp) to experiment with power amps. Both power amps I tried were used with the Rogue Audio RP-7 preamp. I tried connecting both amps directly to my TT2 dac and with a Schiit SYS passive preamp but found that dynamics were muted and music was less lively in both cases.

*Rogue Audio Stereo 100 (100w Tube Power Amp)*
The first thing I noticed when I connected the Abyss TC/Susvara was a very slight hum. To put it into perspective, the hum was a lot less audible than when I had plugged my old Focal Utopia into the Cayin HA-300. Can't expect a high powered tube amp to be completely silent on headphones (excl. SR1a) I guess. Other than that, the music was very dynamic, hard hitting and with pinpoint imaging.This amp exhibits none of the "warmth" tubes are known for, instead going for speed, liveliness and accuracy.This amp was the complete opposite of the HA-300 which tended to be fuzzier in imaging and transients but with a sweet tonality, thicker midrange and a spacious, multi-layered stage.

*Pass Labs XA25 (Class A 25w, Class A/B from 26w to 80w SS Power Amp)*
Bought this amp without trying after reading the near universal acclaim it received. First off, this amp is dead silent, no hum even when I'm straining to hear it. What shocked me was how close to a SET tube amp this SS amp sounded. I'll admit to having a bit of a bias against SS amps, they always sounded two dimensional and soulless to me. The XA25 got me reevaluating this notion. It was doing almost as well in all the areas that were the HA-300's strengths but with added dynamism and impact. I've never heard the Abyss TC punch harder than it did with the XA25.

My conclusion was that going to a power amp does provide benefits in terms of dynamics and slam but what matters most is implementation. A good amp is still a good amp and I never felt like the HA-300 lagged behind the other two, that's why it's on loan rather than on sale. So for those that will be sticking with their headamps, good for you and I hope that I've helped to reduce amp FOMO 

Pics or it didn't happen


----------



## simorag (Aug 7, 2019)

After selling my XI Audio stack (Formula S / Powerman) last month, my quest for my next amplifier for the Abyss TC (plus speakers) continues.

A very fine candidate amp is the *Riviera Labs AIC-10* integrated, which I was eyeing since many months given the outstanding reviews and direct feedback from fellow audiophiles I trust.
The AIC-10 is a rather unusual hybrid design, with a mix of solid-state devices and an 12AU7 / ECC82 tube output stage, operating in pure class A with zero global feedback.
On paper, the AIC-10 has all I am looking for: plenty of power for my TC, practical form factor, a more than decent speaker output and the possibility of fine-tuning its sound signature by rolling the output tube.

Thanks to a series of fortunate coincidences (thanks @biscottino!) I was able to get the AIC-10 at home for an afternoon a few days ago, together with a bunch of tubes to play with.

Below are a few pictures of the AIC-10 from the internet, pretty pointless I know, but sorry guys but I was so taken by the audition that I forgot to take actual photos on my system 
 

I must say I have been profoundly impressed by the AIC-10, as it has produced the best sound I have heard from my AB-1266 to date, easily outperforming both DAVE direct and the XI Audio combo in many ways, tonality and harmonics richness being the most apparent.

Given the extremely high price point, this result was neither a surprise per-se nor even remotely proportionate in terms of price vs. sound quality increase terms.
But it has been the demonstration to myself that I could get much closer, with the Phi TC, to the type of ‘ideal’ sound I am looking for if price was no object.

For example, with the AIC-10 and the most euphoric sounding tube (a Mullard NOS) I have heard for the first time the TC presenting vocals in a most naturalistic fashion, devoid of any hints of hardness or harshness yet very solidly sculpted, palpable, holographic.
Bass control was as good as I have heard, whereas transient attacks and speed in general were less impactful while still very satisfying due to added bloom.

Out of curiosity, I tried the TC on the speaker taps (10W / channel) and I did not find any beneficial effect. On the contrary, I found the headphone out more refined and three-dimensional sounding. Furthermore, there was a slight yet audible background noise.

Unfortunately, my budget does not stretch to the price of a new AIC-10, and they are non-existent on the used market, so I must rely on a fluke to afford one 

My next audition will be an Air Tight ATM-300R next week. I look forward to it - although it exceeds my budget as well - as it should define the ultimate pairing of the Phi TC with tubes, thus providing another useful reference point to my head-fi journey.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

simorag said:


> After selling my XI Audio stack (Formula S / Powerman) last month, my quest for my next amplifier for the Abyss TC (plus speakers) continues.
> 
> A very fine candidate amp is the *Riviera Labs AIC-10* integrated, which I was eyeing since many months given the outstanding reviews and direct feedback from fellow audiophiles I trust.
> The AIC-10 is a rather unusual hybrid design, with a mix of solid-state devices and an 12AU7 / ECC82 tube output stage, operating in pure class A with zero global feedback.
> ...



Looks very nice and the reviews are all stellar.   I've been happy with the Formula S but I'd be interested in any amp that can expand the soundstage, preserve transients, and double down on bass texture...and that is under $5000.  Which is why I stuck with the Formula S (so far).


----------



## cj3209

simorag said:


> After selling my XI Audio stack (Formula S / Powerman) last month, my quest for my next amplifier for the Abyss TC (plus speakers) continues.
> 
> A very fine candidate amp is the *Riviera Labs AIC-10* integrated, which I was eyeing since many months given the outstanding reviews and direct feedback from fellow audiophiles I trust.
> The AIC-10 is a rather unusual hybrid design, with a mix of solid-state devices and an 12AU7 / ECC82 tube output stage, operating in pure class A with zero global feedback.
> ...


So this is a speaker amp that has a headphone jack which sounds better than connecting though the speaker connections.  Is that right?  Lol...


----------



## FLTWS

I have 3 SS HP amps currently and with 3 others owned at various points in time, The Formula S (+ Powerman) is the right SS HP amp for me, and the perfect counterpoint to my several tube HP amps. And it sounds excellent not just for my Phi. My Utopia and HD800 sound as good as I've ever heard them. For me it was just a matter of pairing the right HP to the right HP cable that suited my ears and preferences. I'm curious to hear if there will be a 2nd generation "S".


----------



## simorag

GuyForkes said:


> What shocked me was how close to a SET tube amp this SS amp sounded. I'll admit to having a bit of a bias against SS amps, they always sounded two dimensional and soulless to me. The XA25 got me reevaluating this notion. It was doing almost as well in all the areas that were the HA-300's strengths but with added dynamism and impact. I've never heard the Abyss TC punch harder than it did with the XA25.



Nice to hear about that, the XA25 is on my to-audition list, as another very fine candidate to my HP + speaker amp with warm-ish tone.



cj3209 said:


> So this is a speaker amp that has a headphone jack which sounds better than connecting though the speaker connections. Is that right? Lol...



Actually the AIC-10 is a headphone amp with speaker output, so it is expected that the HP out is as good as or even better of the speaker taps, by design.



mt-hifidelity said:


> I've been happy with the Formula S but I'd be interested in any amp that can expand the soundstage, preserve transients, and double down on bass texture...and that is under $5000. Which is why I stuck with the Formula S (so far).





FLTWS said:


> The Formula S (+ Powerman) is the right SS HP amp for me, and the perfect counterpoint to my several tube HP amps.



I was very happy with the Formula S / Powerman as well. The striking thing was that when passing from DAVE direct to DAVE through XI Audio the timbre and tonality of the presentation was (almost) totally unaffected, which is the definition of a neutral amp in my book. The loss of transparency was more than worth the additional driving capability needed to handle demanding music genres (as symphonic) with adequate ease, layering and control.


----------



## astrostar59

simorag said:


> After selling my XI Audio stack (Formula S / Powerman) last month, my quest for my next amplifier for the Abyss TC (plus speakers) continues.
> 
> A very fine candidate amp is the *Riviera Labs AIC-10* integrated, which I was eyeing since many months given the outstanding reviews and direct feedback from fellow audiophiles I trust.
> The AIC-10 is a rather unusual hybrid design, with a mix of solid-state devices and an 12AU7 / ECC82 tube output stage, operating in pure class A with zero global feedback.
> On paper, the AIC-10 has all I am looking for: plenty of power for my TC, practical form factor, a more than decent speaker output and the possibility of fine-tuning its sound signature by rolling the output tube.



Have you considered the Viva Egoista 2A3? It is around 7.5K euros.

If using tube speaker amps, the Genus is the best I have heard, really incredible. But I understand it is both huge and 15K euros, so out of your budget. BUT it is a world class SET for speakers as well, and I am talking Kondo beating level....


----------



## simorag

astrostar59 said:


> Have you considered the Viva Egoista 2A3? It is around 7.5K euros.
> 
> If using tube speaker amps, the Genus is the best I have heard, really incredible. But I understand it is both huge and 15K euros, so out of your budget. BUT it is a world class SET for speakers as well, and I am talking Kondo beating level....



Well, Viva Egoista 2A3 or 845 (I believe) don't have speaker output. I am considering the Solista instead, which can be found in the used market at around 7.5kEuro, so within my budget.

Apart from cost, problems / concerns with Solista are: (a) not easy to arrange an audition - even if VIVA Audio is an Italian company, (b) challenging heat management, (c) sound signature is reported as very neutral and non-tubelike, whereas I tend to appreciate some - unobtrusive - euphonic coloration.


----------



## astrostar59 (Aug 8, 2019)

*There are other things to watch out for with a tube speaker amp from it's taps.*

1. What is the power rating at the respective level for the headphones, in the Abyss at 33 ohms.
This can be more of a problem is on 200ohms for example.
So typically a 12W speaker amp can end up being <1W on 200 ohms.
2. Noise level. Absolute base noise is not such an issue with speakers, unless used with 100dB efficient horns.
3. Protection. Having the output drive HPs directly may be an issue depending on the amp design. i.e soft start for example. Class A run wide open of course i.e. flat out.

The Genus has both soft start, a tap of the OPT is designed for Headphones, and has _extremely low_ residual noise.

Many of the above also apply to SS as well of course.

*On sonic colorations*
Tubes well designed can bring more realism to the table, not the other way round IMO. Timbre, accuracy of tone, body and weight, 3D imaging. Conversely we could say SS brings colortations, such as switching noise, especially at low level, flatter soundstage and colder treble presentations.

Of course this is a huge subject, and I don't want to get off topic or create a big SS v tubes debate.
And it doesn't apply to all designs either, there are bad tube amps and bad SS amps of course. And great tube and SS amps. It is really up to each individual to find his or her own path and what they like at the end of the day.

The particular aspects, or annoying traits in my view of SS is why I now prefer tubes on speakers, and in particular SETs. And am coming to realise the same seems to apply to headphones. YMMV.


----------



## m17xr2b

astrostar59 said:


> Tubes well designed can bring more realism to the table


Why? What makes the voltage and current gain of tubes better/worse/different than a mosfet or jfet implementation considering the same power supply? 



astrostar59 said:


> The Genus has both soft start, a tap of the OPT is designed for Headphones, and has _extremely low_ residual noise.


Soft start for heaters, B+? How is this actually done, shunting?   What about a circuit to gently cool down the tubes, that's as import as the startup.


----------



## Volker

I'm a new member. So I just start to learn how it works from the perspective as active member. Based on my new account I just started a thread which covers my experience with the Abyss AB-1266. The Abyss AB1266 is my favorite headphone, especially being driven by the AudioValve RKV III tube amp. In my thread I compare Abyss and AudioValve to other components (STAX, Audeze, Cavalli, Headamp Blue Hawaii, ...).

Now that I understood that I am allowed as newbie to post in existing threads and as in this moment I detect this very large thread I'm afraid I better should have included my post in this thread. To not double my longer post I give you the link:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/a-d...-ab-1266-driven-by-audiovalve-rkv-iii.912526/

Will need some time to read all your posts of this thread 
​Kind Regards,
Volker


----------



## astrostar59

Welcome Volker! Have you jumped in at this level, or been working up to it?


----------



## Volker

astrostar59 said:


> Welcome Volker! Have you jumped in at this level, or been working up to it?



It was a long journey. I started with my first hifi components and headphone more than 35 years ago. During that long time some individual issues were continuously rising: my ability to perform listening tests and to hear subtle differences, my requirements, my willingness to accept higher budgets - and not to forget the time I had to work hard to be able to pay the increasing bills  But I think the rise of the component quality was as strong as my personal development curve. When I was young there were four ultra high end headphone models which come into my mind spontaneously: STAX Lambda, Sennheiser Orpheus and HE 60 as well as a little bit forgotten model from Switzerland: Jecklin Float.


----------



## tholt

@Volker welcome! Wonderful write up, appreciate you taking the time and sharing your insights. I had a similar journey -- finding Stax was a revelation at the time. I started modestly with the L-300 and SRM-252S amp, and worked up to 007 mkII paired with the KGSSHV Carbon (never have heard the 009, but did own the L-700 and read that it was similar to the 009). Initially, I loved the lush, warmish sound of the 007 mkII, but over time found myself bored with it. It didn't have very engaging dynamics, had a very narrow soundstage, it could actually feel a little 'slow' (surprising for electrostat) and sometimes was just _too_ smooth. Especially for my music tastes, which contains a lot of electronica, the 007s just didn't have the jump factor, quickness nor the incisiveness to do that genre justice. 

On a whim I bought a used pair of original 1266. I had heard it only once before, and briefly under non-optimal conditions, at a CES years back. At first I wasn't sure what people were raving about -- it wasn't as impactful nor impressive as what I had read about. However, I learned that adjustment is key. Once I extended the headband and played around (extensively) with earcup rotation and other minor fitting tweaks, I found my optimal sound. It's an amazing headphone. No desire to go back to Stax  Still looking for my ideal amplifier. It's been a long and sometimes frustrating journey! I've read about the AudioValve you use. Sounds like a great pairing.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

kelvinwsy said:


> I cannot speak for the SuperConductor cable upgrade.. I went for a Danacable Lazuli Reference and it was a great improvemt over Stock cable.. Stock cable gad this dry midrange and highs were not so crystalline clear and extended.. Bass was not impactful enough! All that changed with the Danacable Lazuli Reference..Rich mids Extended highs and bass that punches your head.



I have the Dana Lazuli Ultra and love the fuller bass. Unfortunately I have to sell the ultra, but sound is great.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

tunes said:


> Just curious.  Would it be fair to say that the Senn HD 800S has the largest overall sound stage of any headphone including the Abyss TC??



I find the quality of the soundstage very different. The hd800s is very wide, but in my head does not create a huge room, it more or less spreads it out, a bit artificial. The tc indeed creates a real huge space, and you hear the instruments properly placed.


----------



## MeetYourMaker (Aug 12, 2019)

My current headphones clamp tight to my head so I can lean back in the chair(recline) and I prefer this position. Since this headphones wont clamp as hard, my question is can I wear this headphones while leaning back without the headphones sliding off? Thank you.


----------



## MaggotBrain

I must admit I haven’t stood on my head while wearing the Abyss - but most other positions I have tried (sitting, lying down, walking even) and it is great lying down - in fact it dissipates the weight of the headphone on your neck. Try it and you will not be disappointed


----------



## jlbrach

i find the lack of clamping to be quite nice in terms of pressure on my head etc....on the other hand the feeling of the HP floating makes me a lot more conscious when i get up or bend so as to not have them fall of and potentially be damaged....in general i find the HP more comfortable than they look for sure!


----------



## mt-hifidelity

I remember a post or article about an insert that someone developed for the 1266 that created a gap between the drivers and the earpads. It allowed the 1266 to fit securely and snugly on your head but still provided the sq benefit of the loose fit in order to create a bit of bass and soundstage expansion.  Does anyone else remember that (and the link)?


----------



## simorag

simorag said:


> After selling my XI Audio stack (Formula S / Powerman) last month, my quest for my next amplifier for the Abyss TC (plus speakers) continues.
> 
> A very fine candidate amp is the *Riviera Labs AIC-10* integrated, which I was eyeing since many months given the outstanding reviews and direct feedback from fellow audiophiles I trust.
> The AIC-10 is a rather unusual hybrid design, with a mix of solid-state devices and an 12AU7 / ECC82 tube output stage, operating in pure class A with zero global feedback.
> ...



As a follow up to my previous post, hereafter is a report of another full day of listening of the AIC-10 in my set-up. Hope it can provide some useful information to others in similar conditions of mine.

This time the listening session has been extended to loudspeakers, and the ones I have at hand right now - the venerable Spendor LS3/5A - are not exactly an easy load with their 82dB sensitivity on 10 ohm impedance.

Mr Luca Chiomenti, the designer of the AIC-10, has been kind enough to visit me and assist throughout the home audition, and I must admit it has been one of the most enjoyable and informative learning experiences of my audiophile life.

First lesson learned: 10W per channel delivered through a well designed amplifier are more than enough to drive my LS3/5A, in my 30sqm living room, to subjectively satisfactory levels. We actually measured the power requested by the loudspeakers while playing quite demanding tracks, and we hitted 6-7W instantaneous peaks at loudness levels _well_ above what I can normally afford in my condominium apartment before my neighbors call the police or my wife asks divorce.
For me, this was the proof that the AIC-10 can indeed be the HP + loudspeakers amp I am looking for.

Second lesson learned: the AB-1266 Phi TC are not as intrinsically bright-ish as I thought. With the right pairing, and the AIC-10 seems to provide just that, they produce a level of upper midrange / lower treble energy which is extremely refined and smooth, and totally consistent with that of the LS3/5A - which are known for a most neutral tuning in the vocals frequency range.

Third lesson learned: apart from obvious imaging advantages (musicians location in front of you instead of around your head) and physical experience (sound impacting your whole body and not just the eardrums), it will take me a significant investment in a loudspeaker upgrade - possibly including a subwoofer - to match the AB-1266 resolution, detail retrieval and bass extension / articulation, thus providing a truly overall better listening experience. As a long standing loudspeaker guy, I still believe headphones are a trade-off driven by practicality considerations, but with gear as the Phi TC the bar is very high.

Last lesson learned (old news, I know): always try to listen / compare in person instead of making assumptions based on reviews / reports (of course including this one ) - I am a lazy guy and suffered in the past from this in first person, making fairly bad choices for my audio purchases.


----------



## tholt

@simorag just curious, what didn't you like about the XI Audio Formula S? I assume you sold it because something wasn't working for you. I'm considering it as my potential next amp. I would need to start with just the Formula S alone, and then work up to adding the Powerman if I liked the Formula S enough. Thanks


----------



## simorag (Aug 12, 2019)

tholt said:


> @simorag just curious, what didn't you like about the XI Audio Formula S? I assume you sold it because something wasn't working for you. I'm considering it as my potential next amp. I would need to start with just the Formula S alone, and then work up to adding the Powerman if I liked the Formula S enough. Thanks



I sold the XI Audio combo just because I wanted to move to an amp capable to drive both hp and loudspeakers.

I was very happy with it in fact.

My recommendation would be to save a bit longer (or look into the 2nd hand market, or do a hardcore bargaining negotiation with your dealer ) and get the Poweman as well since the beginning, as it really brings the Formula S to a significantly higher level in terms of resolution, transparency and smoothness.

I realize that means getting to a total price where you have plenty of other options ...


----------



## tholt

simorag said:


> I realize that that means getting to a total price where you have plenty of other options...



Yes, this is true. Without the Powerman, do you still recommend the Formula S?


----------



## simorag

tholt said:


> Yes, this is true. Without the Powerman, do you still recommend the Formula S?



I would try to compare it to speaker amps in the same price range (new or, better, used as there are a lot more options for great deals with speaker amps in the 2nd hand market) before making a decision.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

mt-hifidelity said:


> I remember a post or article about an insert that someone developed for the 1266 that created a gap between the drivers and the earpads. It allowed the 1266 to fit securely and snugly on your head but still provided the sq benefit of the loose fit in order to create a bit of bass and soundstage expansion.  Does anyone else remember that (and the link)?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/totl-headphones-comparison.856079/#post-13616612


----------



## FLTWS

simorag said:


> As a follow up to my previous post, hereafter is a report of another full day of listening of the AIC-10 in my set-up. Hope it can provide some useful information to others in similar conditions of mine.
> 
> This time the listening session has been extended to loudspeakers, and the ones I have at hand right now - the venerable Spendor LS3/5A - are not exactly an easy load with their 82dB sensitivity on 10 ohm impedance.
> 
> ...



I agree on the phones versus speakers comparisons. They are as different from each other as they are from the live experience. With regards to phones (and I'm referencing primarily classical music recordings and the live concert hall experience) they can be like magnifying glass on the recording and for listening into the score to discover a lot of the finer details that speakers mostly can't resolve for a number of reasons, and that even in a live experience can get lost as the conductor balances the different forces under his command to get the sound he wants. Speakers (versus phones) are a move towards the live experience with regards to imaging, sound staging, (both of which are often more pinpoint than I experience in the concert hall) and the visceral impact and true dynamic range of the music but with crossovers, different speaker responses / coloration's / speeds, cabinet resonances, and maybe the biggest factor, room acoustics, they do give up some aspects to phones. 

I enjoy all 3 methods of listening to music; hearing it from inside, hearing from outside, and hearing it from the absolute reference.

Your right on the last lesson as well. In the 70's and 80's and into the 90's the number of (real) high-end audio stores (even in less than major metropolitan areas) was at least 10 times more than today which makes in person evaluations very difficult or at best a day trip, maybe even an over night-er today. Such are the trials and tribulations of being an audiophile in the here and now.


----------



## GU1DO

tholt said:


> @simorag just curious, what didn't you like about the XI Audio Formula S? I assume you sold it because something wasn't working for you. I'm considering it as my potential next amp. I would need to start with just the Formula S alone, and then work up to adding the Powerman if I liked the Formula S enough. Thanks


Dont buy the Formula S for the full retail price , its not worth that much , AudioGD Master9 is way way better in every aspect.


----------



## Olumm (Aug 13, 2019)

can anyone tell me if there is an significant difference in the newer pads from the original 1266 pads?


----------



## mulder01

mt-hifidelity said:


> I remember a post or article about an insert that someone developed for the 1266 that created a gap between the drivers and the earpads. It allowed the 1266 to fit securely and snugly on your head but still provided the sq benefit of the loose fit in order to create a bit of bass and soundstage expansion.  Does anyone else remember that (and the link)?


If you're talking about the one I think you are, that was one user who had his own custom headband built with screw adjustments etc?  Maybe 100 pages back?


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Yes!  That's right.  Another Head-fier connected me with the fellow who designed the baseplates that can attach to the ear pads.  They will create an airgap.   https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2930056/apps/print/#apps


----------



## GU1DO

mt-hifidelity said:


> Yes!  That's right.  Another Head-fier connected me with the fellow who designed the baseplates that can attach to the ear pads.  They will create an airgap.   https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2930056/apps/print/#apps


do you have the link for the 3D model ?


----------



## Olumm

GU1DO said:


> do you have the link for the 3D model ?



here you go: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2930056


----------



## tholt

Wow. That seems pretty complex and time consuming. For the uber diehards I guess


----------



## GU1DO

tholt said:


> Wow. That seems pretty complex and time consuming. For the uber diehards I guess


i guess its not that complex if you want to save 400$ , funny thing i never seen any discount on the pads, i really wish abyss do some day.


----------



## mulder01

ahh that's a different mod to the one I was thinking of again... 
They did discount the earpads when they were first launched


----------



## Olumm

tholt said:


> Wow. That seems pretty complex and time consuming. For the uber diehards I guess



it's pretty easy if you either have a 3D printer, or know someone that does. At that point it's just a little hot glue for the magnets and double sided tape for the pads.


----------



## astrostar59

What is the consensus on the fit now we are this subject? I seem to prefer the headband on max width at the bolt. Out of the box from new, the frame was wider at the top than the bottom by maybe 3° roughly. I fairly quickly slightly bent the frame out so it is now vertical as it suited my head. And have the cups with the seems at 10 o'clock.

This results in the pads barely touching my ears, the main contact is above the ear on the pads.

The idea on a 3D printed mod on an air gap may have merits, but if it would work well, wouldn't JPS applied that idea already? IMO I believe existing gap and the fit all expand the soundstage, so it avoids falling into the 'tiny room' acoustic of the inner pads having a close contact (traditional fit) to the ear / head.

Thoughts?


----------



## mulder01

astrostar59 said:


> The idea on a 3D printed mod on an air gap may have merits, but if it would work well, wouldn't JPS applied that idea already? IMO I believe existing gap and the fit all expand the soundstage, so it avoids falling into the 'tiny room' acoustic of the inner pads having a close contact (traditional fit) to the ear / head.
> 
> Thoughts?


I think Joe replied when this mod was first posted and yeah I think they did try it.
The solution that they have gone with (the rigid but adjustable headband and rotatable cups) has a user customisable bass response where as a tighter fit with fixed porting wouldn't have that.  And as loose as they feel, they never actually fell off as long as I owned them.


----------



## GU1DO

mulder01 said:


> ahh that's a different mod to the one I was thinking of again...
> They did discount the earpads when they were first launched


I really wish they do discount more frequently , already the profit margin on them is more than adequate


----------



## mt-hifidelity

mulder01 said:


> I think Joe replied when this mod was first posted and yeah I think they did try it.
> The solution that they have gone with (the rigid but adjustable headband and rotatable cups) has a user customisable bass response where as a tighter fit with fixed porting wouldn't have that.  And as loose as they feel, they never actually fell off as long as I owned them.



Its possible that I'm either a) too weak to bend the metal headband sufficiently, or b) my girlfriend is correct that I'm big-headed, and therefore the Abyss fits snugly no matter what I try. 
The designer of the custom baseplate gave me instructions on how to customize the amount of air-gap.  I'll update everyone on my experience once I get everything setup.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Be very careful when handling loose magnets (in this case 36 of them). If one of them manages to get loose the 1266 driver might suck it in and give you mono.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Good point @Joe Skubinski.   I would love it if there was a simple insert that I could put between the earpad and the driver so no mods would be necessary.  What do you think about that?   If I'm not confident in my DIY ability and could mess up the TC then I may skip this altogether and just leave it be.   We shall see...


----------



## tholt

Joe Skubinski said:


> Be very careful when handling loose magnets (in this case 36 of them). If one of them manages to get loose the 1266 driver might suck it in and give you mono.






GU1DO said:


> i guess its not that complex if you want to save 400$ , funny thing i never seen any discount on the pads, i really wish abyss do some day.



Is this mod meant to replicate or be a substitute for the CC pads? Not sure how it would be equivalent.


----------



## Olumm

tholt said:


> Is this mod meant to replicate or be a substitute for the CC pads? Not sure how it would be equivalent.



so... do the CC pads at $400 allow you to get a full seal and not lose any dynamics? If so, that's well worth the price to someone like me.


----------



## tholt

Olumm said:


> so... do the CC pads at $400 allow you to get a full seal and not lose any dynamics? If so, that's well worth the price to someone like me.



The CC pads, combined with the headband, allow you to tailor the sound to your liking.


----------



## Litlgi74

mt-hifidelity said:


> Good point @Joe Skubinski.   I would love it if there was a simple insert that I could put between the earpad and the driver so no mods would be necessary.  What do you think about that?   If I'm not confident in my DIY ability and could mess up the TC then I may skip this altogether and just leave it be.   We shall see...


The magnets are wedged and glued into the spacers of the baseplate... There is really no chance for the magnets to enter the driver portion of the headphone.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

mt-hifidelity said:


> Good point @Joe Skubinski.   I would love it if there was a simple insert that I could put between the earpad and the driver so no mods would be necessary.  What do you think about that?   If I'm not confident in my DIY ability and could mess up the TC then I may skip this altogether and just leave it be.   We shall see...



Spacing the ear pads from your head offers two advantages, the gap sets driver damping in the low freqs and adds a slight bass hump around 30-40 Hz, and the acoustics change as you open up the gap, creating more of a sense of space.

The mag ring mod I believe was made to maintain clamp force yet allow for an adjustable break in seal for the bass, but it does nothing for acoustics. The owner designed it with the old 1266 ear pads, have to remove the stock mag ring (no going back) and glue on the 3D printed one. It's a cool design but personally see no reason for this mod.


----------



## ray-dude

Joe Skubinski said:


> Be very careful when handling loose magnets (in this case 36 of them). If one of them manages to get loose the 1266 driver might suck it in and give you mono.



A gentle reminder to DIY'ers: Small magnets are extremely dangerous if swallowed (small kids, pets, etc).  They can easily do serious damage and rip up intestines, etc.

When working with small magnets, make sure to count how many you have when you start work, and make to account for every single one when you finish your work.  If you start with 10 small magnets, make absolutely sure you count and can account for ALL 10 magnets before you wrap up for the day.


----------



## GU1DO

tholt said:


> Is this mod meant to replicate or be a substitute for the CC pads? Not sure how it would be equivalent.


that what they say , i dont know , i dont have issue with the pads i have,  specially they are almost like new, 
but i wish they make a simple spacer that could be used with old pads and not charging above 50$


----------



## mulder01

GU1DO said:


> that what they say , i dont know , i dont have issue with the pads i have,  specially they are almost like new,
> but i wish they make a simple spacer that could be used with old pads and not charging above 50$


You expect spare parts for a $5000 headphone to be under $50... hmm...


----------



## GU1DO

mulder01 said:


> You expect spare parts for a $5000 headphone to be under $50... hmm...


Do you expect it cost 5000 to make


----------



## mulder01

I'm no business graduate, but I'm pretty sure that aint how it works...


----------



## cj3209

GU1DO said:


> Do you expect it cost 5000 to make


Saw your sig, how do the XI and Audio-GD amps compare?


----------



## GU1DO

cj3209 said:


> Saw your sig, how do the XI and Audio-GD amps compare?


Eleven XI has a darker background but that's it , the Audio-GD Master 9 is more neutral , more powerful , more transparent with better details , and have way way better sound stage  , tbh i dont think the Formula S should be sold as reference amp , it is colored amp , beside that the price is just a rip off compared to the Master 9


----------



## Olumm

Ok, so I am officially in love with the 1266. Can anyone tell me with the original Diana is more of a companion headphone for the 1266, or like a 1266 lite in acoustics.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

@Olumm my opinion is Diana v2 is a great companion to 1266. The sound is very open, great imaging/soundstage, smooth but still detailed. It is a phenomenal all-around headphone when 1266 is the system reference.


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Aug 16, 2019)

GU1DO said:


> Eleven XI has a darker background but that's it , the Audio-GD Master 9 is more neutral , more powerful , more transparent with better details , and have way way better sound stage  , tbh i dont think the Formula S should be sold as reference amp , it is colored amp , beside that the price is just a rip off compared to the Master 9



From my perspective all amps are colored in various ways, it's more a question of what grouping of _colors_ best suits your tastes.

From my experience I know I personally would not like the Audio-GD, been there, done that. Good to hear though that you found your fav.


----------



## Litlgi74

Joe Skubinski said:


> From your description I know I personally would not like the Audio-GD, been there, done that.



Just out of curiosity... What is there not to like about his description of the Master 9?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

We're always looking for good amps to recommend and have tried all kinds with our headphones, as well as inspired many to be made to mate. The differences in sound as described would require an amp to go toward the brighter side of overall tonality, but hey like I said if that's what you like I'm cool with that.


----------



## cj3209

My 1266 phi/cc with the XI Broadway is awesome.  Trying to convince myself that the Formula S won't be that much of an upgrade...


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Joe Skubinski said:


> We're always looking for good amps to recommend and have tried all kinds with our headphones, as well as inspired many to be made to mate. The differences in sound as described would require an amp to go toward the brighter side of overall tonality, but hey like I said if that's what you like I'm cool with that.



Love the really cool Abyss emoji 
How you do that?


----------



## jlbrach

cj3209 said:


> My 1266 phi/cc with the XI Broadway is awesome.  Trying to convince myself that the Formula S won't be that much of an upgrade...



it will


----------



## treebug

Could someone tell me the difference between the TC and CC and which is the latest version?


----------



## MacedonianHero

treebug said:


> Could someone tell me the difference between the TC and CC and which is the latest version?



My full TC review will be out shortly (next month) on Headphone.Guru, but in short, improved detail extraction (very much now in-line with the Stax SR-009), dynamics and sound staging, but still retains everything that I loved about the Phi CC, just better across the board to my ears.


----------



## jlbrach

and you used to be an abyss skeptic lol......


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Aug 17, 2019)

I’ve been enjoying my Diana Phi powered by Sony DMP-Z1 for several months and the issue I have now is nothing else in my collection of headphones sound good. I also love IEMs but they don’t come remotely close in performance to DP. If you get 1266 or Diana Phi, be prepared to be disappointed by the other headphones you used to enjoy. Now I am slowly listing all my headphones on eBay. ABYSS needs to make an IEM and I’ll be all set.


----------



## Olumm

HiFiGuy528 said:


> I’ve been enjoying my Diana Phi powered by Sony DMP-Z1 for several months and the issue I have now is nothing else in my collection of headphones sound good. I also love IEMs but they don’t come remotely close in performance to DP. If you get 1266 or Diana Phi, be prepared to be disappointed by the other headphones you used to enjoy. Now I am slowly listing all my headphones on eBay. ABYSS needs to make an IEM and I’ll be all set.



I couldn't agree with you more. I just got the 1266 last week and have been slowly looking around at all of my other headphones to see if I would likely ever use them again, and other than the HD600 the answer keeps coming up as NO.


----------



## treebug

MacedonianHero said:


> My full TC review will be out shortly (next month) on Headphone.Guru, but in short, improved detail extraction (very much now in-line with the Stax SR-009), dynamics and sound staging, but still retains everything that I loved about the Phi CC, just better across the board to my ears.



Many thanks. Close to pulling the trigger on these. Only thing that's holding me back slightly is the weight.


----------



## CreditingKarma

HiFiGuy528 said:


> I’ve been enjoying my Diana Phi powered by Sony DMP-Z1 for several months and the issue I have now is nothing else in my collection of headphones sound good. I also love IEMs but they don’t come remotely close in performance to DP. If you get 1266 or Diana Phi, be prepared to be disappointed by the other headphones you used to enjoy. Now I am slowly listing all my headphones on eBay. ABYSS needs to make an IEM and I’ll be all set.



The closest I have gotten to the ab1266 tc in an iem is the noble Khan. They are really resolving.you should give them a try.


----------



## astrostar59

treebug said:


> Many thanks. Close to pulling the trigger on these. Only thing that's holding me back slightly is the weight.



I don't find an issue with the weight. The fit is something you get used to as well. In fact, the soft / low pressure to the ears once setting the frame up, it really is as close to no headphone at all compared to traditional cans.

The detail extraction is amazing, v close to my Stax 009s and Carbon amp, but minus the coldness and edginess of that HP. And the soundstage is miles ahead of the Stax, and the Audeze as well to my ears. I find I hear things well beyond my head sphere, I thought those sounds were from my room not in the music.

Then the speed, it is lightning fast. This also means you miss less detail and everything in more in focus, not slowed down. IMO you do need a good source to the Abyss, which makes sense for a 5k headphone. I like R2R DACs for a source, preferably with tube gain stage, makes a match made in heaven.

Short story, get the Abyss, don't worry about it...


----------



## jlbrach

the abyss tc, susvara and lcd-4 are the big 3 IMHO....


----------



## treebug (Aug 17, 2019)

astrostar59 said:


> I don't find an issue with the weight. The fit is something you get used to as well. In fact, the soft / low pressure to the ears once setting the frame up, it really is as close to no headphone at all compared to traditional cans.
> 
> The detail extraction is amazing, v close to my Stax 009s and Carbon amp, but minus the coldness and edginess of that HP. And the soundstage is miles ahead of the Stax, and the Audeze as well to my ears. I find I hear things well beyond my head sphere, I thought those sounds were from my room not in the music.
> 
> ...


----------



## treebug

Astrostar, have you compared the Diani Phi to the 1266 soundwise? I see that is a little lighter.


----------



## astrostar59

Agree, but my taste is Abyss first (speed, excitement and dynamics), LCD4 second (creamy mids and warmer FR) Susvara last. 

The Susvara is a bit bonkers IMO, as it seems to need a big amp investment to shine at it's best. I can't remember how many posters have said go for a speaker amp with it. It gets me a bit annoyed actually, why HFM would not redesign it to reduce the impedance and raise the efficiency. Lazy I would say..... it is like the huge amount of 90dB or less speakers out their which basically requires big SS power amps. It is entirely possible to get better efficiency with minimal losses to sound quality. I would never buy a speaker less than 95dB on that basis. So for me the Susvara is OUT.


----------



## lambdastorm

astrostar59 said:


> Agree, but my taste is Abyss first (speed, excitement and dynamics), LCD4 second (creamy mids and warmer FR) Susvara last.
> 
> The Susvara is a bit bonkers IMO, as it seems to need a big amp investment to shine at it's best. I can't remember how many posters have said go for a speaker amp with it. It gets me a bit annoyed actually, why HFM would not redesign it to reduce the impedance and raise the efficiency. Lazy I would say..... it is like the huge amount of 90dB or less speakers out their which basically requires big SS power amps. It is entirely possible to get better efficiency with minimal losses to sound quality. I would never buy a speaker less than 95dB on that basis. So for me the Susvara is OUT.


I wish Susvara's sensitivity is a few dBs lower just so I can use a speaker amp with even more power. One of the many reasons why Susvara, along with HE6, are great is because you can 'cheat' with speaker amps, which sound way more dynamic and expressive than similarly priced headphone amps. Why bother with headphone amps when you can drive both speakers and headphones at the same time?


----------



## Alarickc

I have the 1266 TC and Diana Phi. I'd say the Diana is close, and how close it is depends on your priorities. Tonality is nearly the same between them. Transient resolve and detail retrieval is slightly, but noticeably, better on the big 1266. Impact and physicality is suprisingly similar. Soundstaging is the big difference, with the 1266 having way bigger size of soundstage and noticeably better placement. I'd only get the Diana as a portable companion to the 1266, but your preference could vary if you really hate the 1266's unique fit.


----------



## jlbrach

lambdastorm said:


> I wish Susvara's sensitivity is a few dBs lower just so I can use a speaker amp with even more power. One of the many reasons why Susvara, along with HE6, are great is because you can 'cheat' with speaker amps, which sound way more dynamic and expressive than similarly priced headphone amps. Why bother with headphone amps when you can drive both speakers and headphones at the same time?



because not everyone wants to listen to their HP's out of the amp driving their loudspeakers...i personally have a Mcintosh 452 driving my loudspeakers and for so many reasons i wouldnt dream of using it to drive my susvars


----------



## JLoud

I have a Woo WA5le and a HeadAmp GSX mkii that drive my Abyss with authority. I can't imagine needing more power than these two have. They sound fantastic, but very different, with the 1266Tc and LCD-4. Haven't had the opportunity to try the Susvara yet. But with the amount of headroom the Abyss has on both amps, I believe they would drive the Susvara with no problem.


----------



## jlbrach

i have the formula s/powerman combo and it drives the susvara beautifully...i used to have the 281 and the ifi pro can which also had ample power to drive the susvara....the formula s is far better but all drive it just fine....


----------



## cj3209 (Aug 17, 2019)

lambdastorm said:


> ...Why bother with headphone amps when you can drive both speakers and headphones at the same time?


I don't know if I want my 35 lb. tube amp next to my head at night...lol


----------



## jlbrach

my 452 speaker amp weighs about 200 pounds lol..aint gonna be near my HP setup


----------



## treebug

Alarickc said:


> I have the 1266 TC and Diana Phi. I'd say the Diana is close, and how close it is depends on your priorities. Tonality is nearly the same between them. Transient resolve and detail retrieval is slightly, but noticeably, better on the big 1266. Impact and physicality is suprisingly similar. Soundstaging is the big difference, with the 1266 having way bigger size of soundstage and noticeably better placement. I'd only get the Diana as a portable companion to the 1266, but your preference could vary if you really hate the 1266's unique fit.



Thanks for that info. It's the big soundstage that I love so maybe the 1266 would be the better option for me, even if I'm sacrificing some comfort not going for the Diana.


----------



## lambdastorm

cj3209 said:


> I don't know if I want my 35 lb. tube amp next to my head at night...lol


lol I don’t know how far your headphone amp is away from your headphone, but with abyss’s long ass cables I can manage 8ft without the cables pulling me back.


----------



## lambdastorm

jlbrach said:


> because not everyone wants to listen to their HP's out of the amp driving their loudspeakers...i personally have a Mcintosh 452 driving my loudspeakers and for so many reasons i wouldnt dream of using it to drive my susvars


If sus has an efficiency rating of 65db/mw you might actually reconsider that idea, just saying.


----------



## jlbrach

i have ZERO issue driving my susvara with my formula s/powerman combo and have ZERO intention of bringing my 200 pound mcintosh 452 into my bedroom


----------



## lambdastorm

I don’t want to start an argument, all I’m saying is that for low efficiency planars, power amps are a cheap yet effective alternative.


----------



## SteveM324

I’m thinking of getting a TC for my next headphone.  My current amps are the Auris Nirvana and the Luxman P700u.  I think the Auris Nirvana will be a good match for the TC.  Has anyone tried this combination?


----------



## SteveM324

jlbrach said:


> i have ZERO issue driving my susvara with my formula s/powerman combo and have ZERO intention of bringing my 200 pound mcintosh 452 into my bedroom



LOL, I also have the McIntosh MC452 and I also have no intentions of using it as a headphone amp.  It does quite well powering my Harbeth M40.1 though.


----------



## GU1DO

Joe Skubinski said:


> From my perspective all amps are colored in various ways, it's more a question of what grouping of _colors_ best suits your tastes.
> 
> From my experience I know I personally would not like the Audio-GD, been there, done that. Good to hear though that you found your fav.


I dont know if you got me right but when an amp overshadow the sound of cables , headphones , heck even music with its color , that's not a transparent amp, specially with your amazing headphones it got me the most ,, don't get me wrong its a very clean quality amp but its coloring the sound too much even the filters in my Hugo 2 DAC sound almost all the same , the Master 9 is more transparent amp , have better details retrieval , and with it everything is much clearer , that's why i said the Formula S is overpriced and i would never recommend it at that price and also not as a primary amp.


----------



## treebug

Anyone using the 1266 with Luxman P-750u?


----------



## Zhanming057

SteveM324 said:


> I’m thinking of getting a TC for my next headphone.  My current amps are the Auris Nirvana and the Luxman P700u.  I think the Auris Nirvana will be a good match for the TC.  Has anyone tried this combination?



Nirvana is fine, the P700u might also work pretty well, it's not nominally that powerful but control is superlative. Tried it with the Phi and liked it.



GU1DO said:


> I dont know if you got me right but when an amp overshadow the sound of cables , headphones , heck even music with its color , that's not a transparent amp, specially with your amazing headphones it got me the most ,, don't get me wrong its a very clean quality amp but its coloring the sound too much even the filters in my Hugo 2 DAC sound almost all the same , the Master 9 is more transparent amp , have better details retrieval , and with it everything is much clearer , that's why i said the Formula S is overpriced and i would never recommend it at that price and also not as a primary amp.



I have to agree with Joe here, extensively demo'd both, found the Master 9 far too heavily colored, the Formula S is a bit rough but the power base helps a bit.


----------



## GU1DO

Zhanming057 said:


> Nirvana is fine, the P700u might also work pretty well, it's not nominally that powerful but control is superlative. Tried it with the Phi and liked it.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to agree with Joe here, extensively demo'd both, found the Master 9 far too heavily colored, the Formula S is a bit rough but the power base helps a bit.


Actually he said (all amps are colored) its just a matter of preference (it's more a question of what grouping of _colors_ best suits your tastes.)


----------



## Litlgi74

> This is what sound should sound like in everything you have.



Very, very well said.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Aug 19, 2019)

I've always hated the typical audiophile terms and phases that go along with the "best" audio gear... But I can now safely remove one of my most despised and overused phases from my list...

Yesterday while listening to one of my favorite tracks...



"I heard something I never heard before!"

At around 4:50... high above the music and voices... there is a voice singing backup... I've listen to this song hundreds of times... And I never heard it. I'm not sure if it's Ed or a female backup... But it is lovely.

And to make my experience even crazier... The voice is far left at around 10 o clock and about a foot over my head just barely coming into the right channel.


----------



## Pastwa

It is a male voice, you can hear it clearly (nicely separated) on a well-driven Beyerdynamic DT880.


----------



## MacedonianHero (Aug 19, 2019)

jlbrach said:


> and you used to be an abyss skeptic lol......



That was solely limited to the original version. 

Thankfully the Phi CC and especially Phi TC  have really knocked the ball out of the park!


----------



## astrostar59 (Aug 20, 2019)

Hi all
Anyone getting what they call full performance out of the 1266 Abyss from a tube headphone amp. I am looking for a nice tube amp to drive the Abyss and also the LCD4s in our demo system. The Woo WA5 LE is a candidate, as is the Auris Headonia. Or is the consensus here a top SS amp plays better on the Abyss? I want to retain the soundstage and speed but gain some realism as well if possible. We currently have the V281, and the big Aries Cerat Genus speaker amp. The Genus sets the bar so high, and sounds fabulous. It is also 15K so a smaller option would appeal to many customers.

I ref the review below, but not found much else on how the Abyss pairs with the WA5 LE.
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/09/27/review-woo-audio-wa5le-v2-vacuum-tube-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## mulder01 (Aug 20, 2019)

If you are selling Abyss now, wouldn't the Formula S be the logical choice? - well received on here, in the high end, but not out-of-reach expensive, optional power supply upgrade for the people that want to spend a bit more, has the manufacturer's backing and if you are buying whole systems from the one place, you might be able to get package prices?
Just a thought.  Haven't heard it myself... 
Personally I liked the v281 as much as anything else, but for some reason, it's almost like a lot of people seem to look at as though it's not expensive enough to pair with the Abyss? ...or something...


----------



## JLoud

I have the Abyss tc as well as the LCD-4. Currently using the WA5 le and a HeadAmp GSX mk2. I really like the WA5 with the Abyss. Soundstage is huge but still has good focus. Bass is also stellar. The HeadAmp is a touch faster and bass hits a little cleaner and perhaps a little deeper. But the midrange is sweeter on the WA5. I prefer the LCD-4 on the WA5 over the HeadAmp. It just matches so well with the traits of the LCD-4. The Woo drives both with authority and plenty of headroom. I believe the WA5 used to be what the Abyss was tuned with. Many of the videos from Abyss feature the Woo.


----------



## Olumm

Has anyone here had any experience with the ALO Studio Six and the 1266?


----------



## astrostar59

*Calling all Abyss owners using speakers amps*

I am interested in this at the moment. Has anyone got experience or have a speaker amp powering their Abyss? Either SS or tube. It seems the more power the better for this amazing headphone. 

Having said that, my V281 is super with it. So wondering what else there is to gain going down this route. Speaking to a few guys on here, it does seem there is more performance available to be had. Hardly very practical or compact using a speaker amp, but if SQ is paramount, that is of no issue for me.


----------



## Zhanming057

astrostar59 said:


> *Calling all Abyss owners using speakers amps*
> 
> I am interested in this at the moment. Has anyone got experience or have a speaker amp powering their Abyss? Either SS or tube. It seems the more power the better for this amazing headphone.
> 
> Having said that, my V281 is super with it. So wondering what else there is to gain going down this route. Speaking to a few guys on here, it does seem there is more performance available to be had. Hardly very practical or compact using a speaker amp, but if SQ is paramount, that is of no issue for me.



Airtight ATM300, Viva Solista, Nagra Classic INT, Bryston 4B3 are a few amps that come to mind.


----------



## simorag (Aug 22, 2019)

astrostar59 said:


> *Calling all Abyss owners using speakers amps*
> 
> I am interested in this at the moment. Has anyone got experience or have a speaker amp powering their Abyss? Either SS or tube. It seems the more power the better for this amazing headphone.
> 
> Having said that, my V281 is super with it. So wondering what else there is to gain going down this route. Speaking to a few guys on here, it does seem there is more performance available to be had. Hardly very practical or compact using a speaker amp, but if SQ is paramount, that is of no issue for me.





Zhanming057 said:


> Airtight ATM300, Viva Solista, Nagra Classic INT, Bryston 4B3 are a few amps that come to mind.



I had a most enjoyable private listening session at headphoneauditions.nl, and I second the Air Tight ATM-300 is a great pairing: lots of air, speed and bass control, together with a most refined and open treble.

That said, the Thrax Enyo (a product which I never heard of) provided a more satisfying experience to my ears. While being perhaps technically inferior to the ATM-300R, I was seducted by its denser midrange, sheer grunt and wide soundstage.






By the way, the Enyo was doing pretty well with the RAAL SR1a, regardless of a rated power (50W on 8Ohm) well below RAAL Requisite >100W recommendation.

I am putting together some notes of my audition, which I will share in a later post here.


----------



## astrostar59

Interesting. Keep it coming simorag.

I am still looking for a 'desktop' amp that can get real close to my Aries Cerat Genus. Nothing I have heard yet is quite there. The closest so far is the Auris Headonia. At Munich high end I heard that amp on the Susvara's and LCD4s and it was really beautiful. I had some of my own tracks as well, so it gave me a good idea of it's performance v my Genus. I would estimate it is 90% of my big amps performance, and really, until I have heard the Genus is an end game amp IMO.

I think one of the reasons the Headonia is so good on Planars is the taps off the output transformer. I seems to have plenty of drive, which you need for the Susvara and Abyss, and even the LCD4 upscales a lot with drive. It isn't just loudness, it is current and control of the dynamics. If I had the budget for the Headonia that would be my ideal dedicated HP amp, no question. The 2A3 is also a 'magic' tube, it has a superbly natural timbre to it. And there are plenty of affordable new manufacture 2A3s to choose from. The driver tube is a small ECC82 and is plentiful and around 50 USD for Mullard NOS. They should be good for 10,000 hours.

Going back to tube *speaker* amps, it is a nice idea. The thing to watch though is noise, you really need absolute silence at the output, something a lot of tube amps just don't have. And being class A SE, they are effectively full volume all the time, so if you leave your HPs plugged in all day, anything happens with your mains supply or a tube, it is goodbye to your HPs. Something to be aware of....


----------



## Olumm (Aug 26, 2019)

Hey Everyone! I just wanted to let you all know that I contacted the guys over at Periapt Cables to see if they could make a custom cable for the 1266, and they happily sent one over to me for a trial. I am currently listening to it vs. the stock cable that comes with the 1266. I have to say that I am not a huge believer in what changes with cables, but I cannot stand the stock Abyss cable, and I refuse to spend $2k on a cable.

I will give this cable a couple of days worth of head time and report back to the thread on what, if anything, that I am hearing from a difference perspective.


----------



## cj3209

Olumm said:


> Hey Everyone! I just wanted to let you all know that I contacted the guys over at Periapt Cables to see if they could make a custom cable for the 1266, and they happily sent one over to me for a trial. I am currently listening to it vs. the stock cable that comes with the 1266. I have to say that I am not a huge believer in what changes with cables, but I cannot stand the stock Abyss cable, and I refuse to spend $2k on a cable.
> 
> I will give this cable a couple of days worth of head time and report back to the thread on what, if anything, that I am hearing from a difference perspective.


There are other alternatives such those offered by moon-audio.  BTW, how much are those cables?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Buy Norne and be happy


----------



## jlbrach

Olumm said:


> Hey Everyone! I just wanted to let you all know that I contacted the guys over at Periapt Cables to see if they could make a custom cable for the 1266, and they happily sent one over to me for a trial. I am currently listening to it vs. the stock cable that comes with the 1266. I have to say that I am not a huge believer in what changes with cables, but I cannot stand the stock Abyss cable, and I refuse to spend $2k on a cable.
> 
> I will give this cable a couple of days worth of head time and report back to the thread on what, if anything, that I am hearing from a difference perspective.



the stock is actually outstanding..a bit cumbersome but outstanding


----------



## Olumm

cj3209 said:


> There are other alternatives such those offered by moon-audio.  BTW, how much are those cables?



Under $100


----------



## cj3209 (Aug 23, 2019)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Buy Norne and be happy


The stock cable IS cumbersome.  Not sure if the Norne Einvaldi is better.  Definitely. cheaper though...

http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/...auteur-atticus-eikon-mr-speakers-ether-2-flow


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Einvaldi is an outstanding cable, in my opinion. However, the stock cable is fine as well, it is mostly about ergonomics. And for me they do matter a lot. I always play around with cables while listening ...


----------



## simorag

As my search for my next AB-1266 Phi TC + loudspeakers amp continues, I visited this awesome shop in Amsterdam, where I booked a private listening session, which then transformed itself in an extremely fascinating 4h trip in the head-phile Land of Oz.

Stefan, the shop owner, was a fantastic host and a most competent help throughout my audition. Also, I was happy to meet in person @Mikey99 after exchanging several messages here!

The private listening sessions are held after the shop closing time for a maximum of 3 persons, and the cost of the service (150Euro) is refunded in full for purchases over 1kEuro. I find that this kind of opportunities are pure gold in a time where chances of listening to high end head-fi gear with adequate time and limited or no pressure to buy is so rare (read: impossible in the country where I live in).

The main reason I decided to visit Headphoneauditions was because I could replicate my home setup (see signature) there, and, based on that, try some of the amps I am considering, plus some potential further upgrades / complimentary headphones to my Phi TC, as Stefan has nearly all the flagship HP's available for audition at his shop!

My strategy was to:

1. try a maxed out Phi TC + speaker amp set-up and see where it gets me;
2. compare it to a similar set-up with the other two headphones I am most interested in, i.e. the Susvara and RAAL SR1a;
3. decide the direction to take for my next amp purchase.




 

All auditioning was done with a playlist of tracks I normally use to assess new items or changes in my audio system. They are - mainly - a mix of classical music pieces (orchestra, piano, baroque, organ), instrumental and vocal jazz.

They include music I listen very often plus some torture-test tracks like Berlin – Louis Capart (Stockfisch Records) for sibilance/treble harshness, Gnomus – from Pictures at an Exhibition – played on organ (Dorian Sampler) for ambience and extreme bass depth and Funeral March for Rikard Nordraak (Reference Recording) for explosive dynamics and bass impact. 

*a) High end speaker amps for the Abyss Phi TC*

Quick notes:

- Air Tight ATM 300R (8W, list price 15-18kEuro depending on tubes):
             - 'untubey' sound signature, with sharp bass transients and great dynamics
             - fast, transparent, great extension at both ends
             - high clarity vocals
             - not euphonic / saturated as I expected
             - precise imaging

- Thrax Enyo (50W, list price 10.5kEuro):
             - great grip on the lowest end
             - thicker, denser, darker midrange
             - slightly rolled off treble
             - precise imaging together with massive soundstage size


Technically the ATM was probably the better amp, but I personally liked the Enyo coloration more with the Phi TC. I find the Abyss benefited from its increased midrange density, and the huge 3D soundstage rendition matched very well one of the main strengths of the AB-1266.

Both amps exhibited no background noise and a superior level of imaging, soundstage size and midrange / upper treble refinement with respect to my previous XI Audio Formula S / Powerman combo, while at a _significantly _higher price.



 

*b) RAAL Requisite SR1a (w/ Chord Etude and w/ Thrax Enyo)*

Quick notes:

- extremely comfortable
- presentation and fit (drivers 'far' from you ears) are even more speaker-like than the Phi TC
- incredibly resolving, you dig into the music far beyond the TC or anything else I have heard
- lightning fast, lots of air
- very realistic vocals, both female and male (better than Abyss), with no harshness
- very open sounding with seemingly endless high frequency extension
- great instrument separation
- leanish presentation on both tested amps, compared to TC and Susvara
- good bass extension, while _way_ below the TC in terms of sub bass volume and reach

I tried several adjustments of the earpieces, and followed Stefan's advices about how to fine tune them, but I acknowledge that I might have not had the time of finding the best fit.
Also, based on other's impressions the SR1a like even more powerful amps than those I had the chance of trying.

Etude (100W/8Ohm) had clearly more headroom than the Enyo (50W/8Ohm), but I did not feel the Enyo was underpowered at my typical listening levels, even when playing demanding orchestral pieces.

Etude was more direct and fast, while the Enyo provided some little more elasticity and velvety midrange. I would need more time with the SR1a and these two amps to decide which pairing I like better.

Overall I liked the SR1a 'experience' very much, but I overall keep liking the AB-1266 Phi TC more due to their more fleshed out presentation and bass / sub-bass reproduction (with my weak spot for romantic orchestral music I feel that sub-bass is a huge plus for this genre, when it comes to atmospherics, physical involvement, sense of scale, 3D layering). 
Also, the headstage of the TC, while being not larger - possibly a tad smaller - it was more cohesive to my ears and the rendering of a full orchestral mass was more similar to my aural memory of the real thing.

Finally, I appreciated the extreme analytical skills of the SR1a on a technical basis, but they tend to present the music in an hyper-realistic fashion to my ears, like looking with a microscope into the score, which I felt as quite distant from live listening sessions in a real venue.



 

*c) HiFiMan Susvara*

I did only a few A/B tests of Susvara vs. Phi TC on the same amps (ATM-300R and Enyo). I found the Susvara sweeter sounding in the midrange - in a pleasant way - but consistently less transparent and resolving with respect to the TC, so I did not feel motivated to dedicate more time to them.

Not a candidate for a TC replacement or complement to my ears, based on this short audition.
Perhaps I will come back to auditioning Susvara if I have another chance in the future.



 

*d) Meze Empyrean*

I was attracted by the Empyrean as a potential secondary HP to be used directly connected to the DAVE, for a more 'easy-listening' oriented approach.

The audition of the Empyrean lasted only few seconds. I started Rebecca Pidgeon's Spanish Harlem and the opening double bass line was rendered in such a boomy and unnatural way that I decided to stop it there, as I had to manage my limited time at Stefan's shop in a very careful way.

*Conclusion and Next Steps*

My visit to headphoneauditions has been at the same time a lot of fun and a huge help for clearing my mind in view of my next steps.

With unlimited budget and time available to listen to music, I would enjoy having an SR1a in my collection as it is indeed a special thing. However, in my situation, I felt reinforced on my personal preference for the Phi TC among the current TOTL headphones, hence on my initial strategy of maxing out my Phi TC setup.

Also, putting together my reactions to latest auditions (including the Riviera AIC-10) I believe I have a soft spot for a mild euphonic coloration in the midrange area, which brings me to warmer sounding amps as opposed to utterly transparent ones.

The Thrax Enyo has definitely entered my short-list, together with the Riviera AIC-10.

My next steps will be in the direction of further exploring high-quality yet warm-ish speaker amps, like Pass Labs XA-25 and Accuphase E-650, and some other SET options if I have the chance.


----------



## Mikey99

simorag said:


> As my search for my next AB-1266 Phi TC + loudspeakers amp continues, I visited this awesome shop in Amsterdam, where I booked a private listening session, which then transformed itself in an extremely fascinating 4h trip in the head-phile Land of Oz.
> 
> Stefan, the shop owner, was a fantastic host and a most competent help throughout my audition. Also, I was happy to meet in person @Mikey99 after exchanging several messages here!
> 
> ...


It was great to meet you at the shop! Good luck in your quest


----------



## astrostar59 (Aug 25, 2019)

Interesting. Well if the Air tight is 15-18K I would dare it to A/B with the Genus. I would pitch the Genus v a Kondo SET for example. 25W SET with big bottle tubes do amazing things...

I would try some 211 speaker amps if possible, and look at the Ayon range. May come up used as been around for a long time. The 300B has that nice midrange, agree, but does it have the bass control? That is the question.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

simorag said:


> *d) Meze Empyrean*
> 
> I was attracted by the Empyrean as a potential secondary HP to be used directly connected to the DAVE, for a more 'easy-listening' oriented approach.
> 
> ...



Interesting report. I actually own the Empys and do like them a lot, so I’d encourage you to give them a second chance. You seemed to have been intrigued by the RAAL quite a bit. My question is ... is listening to music with so little bass any fun? Because that is the biggest plus of the ab-1266, this amazing bass while still being fast. The RAAL only seems to have one ability of the two.


----------



## simorag

astrostar59 said:


> The 300B has that nice midrange, agree, but does it have the bass control? That is the question.



Subjectively, I did not find any lack of bass control with the ATM300. Rather, a tight and extended response.
At 47ohm it should have a damping factor of about 40, not bad for a zero feedback SET.
I am no expert, but I would assume a speaker amp should have no issues at controlling light drivers as headphones.
Am I missing something? Are planars specially critical for any reason?
Always interested in learning!




Hoegaardener70 said:


> Interesting report. I actually own the Empys and do like them a lot, so I’d encourage you to give them a second chance. You seemed to have been intrigued by the RAAL quite a bit. My question is ... is listening to music with so little bass any fun?



I listened to the Empy very briefly, indeed. I could come back to them in the future if chance comes, as a complementary headphone for the Abyss.

As for the SR1a, they are pretty special, but for the very reason you mentioned (bass) I could not see them as a replacement for the Abyss.

More details here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/raal-ribbon-headphones-srh1a.890603/page-99#post-15142385

I am intoxicated by the AB1266 overall presentation, and with the TC drivers they have come very close to the sound I am after, especially when driven with a synergistic amp (AIC10, Enyo for my personal tastes are two great examples)


----------



## jlbrach

simorag said:


> As my search for my next AB-1266 Phi TC + loudspeakers amp continues, I visited this awesome shop in Amsterdam, where I booked a private listening session, which then transformed itself in an extremely fascinating 4h trip in the head-phile Land of Oz.
> 
> Stefan, the shop owner, was a fantastic host and a most competent help throughout my audition. Also, I was happy to meet in person @Mikey99 after exchanging several messages here!
> 
> ...




I think this is an interesting presentation but i will be honest in that I still do not understand the allure of huge bulky enormously heavy speaker amps that cost a fortune for a HP setup...I personally own a Mcintosh 452 which weighs about 200 pounds and sits in my living room attached to my loudspeaker system....my HP setup which includes the TC along with the dave/blu2 and the formula s /powerman is in my bedroom where i relax and listen to music.....I suppose if somebody only listens to their music in a living room area a speaker amp could be attached to the chord dave etc but somehow it seems like such inconvenience and overkill....the cost is yet another consideration of course....I certainly do not fault anyone for curiosity and testing of a speaker amp but to me it is like the car that can drive 200 MPH but of course you can never find a place to go 200 mph lol.....just my 2 cents and god bless all those who are willing to do all involved to use the speaker amps


----------



## cj3209

jlbrach said:


> I think this is an interesting presentation but i will be honest in that I still do not understand the allure of huge bulky enormously heavy speaker amps that cost a fortune for a HP setup...I personally own a Mcintosh 452 which weighs about 200 pounds and sits in my living room attached to my loudspeaker system....my HP setup which includes the TC along with the dave/blu2 and the formula s /powerman is in my bedroom where i relax and listen to music.....I suppose if somebody only listens to their music in a living room area a speaker amp could be attached to the chord dave etc but somehow it seems like such inconvenience and overkill....the cost is yet another consideration of course....I certainly do not fault anyone for curiosity and testing of a speaker amp but to me it is like the car that can drive 200 MPH but of course you can never find a place to go 200 mph lol.....just my 2 cents and god bless all those who are willing to do all involved to use the speaker amps


It's just the extreme ways people go to, to try to get that last 5% of perceived sound quality.  I enjoy reading about their efforts though-its entertaining.

I should be the one to talk as I'm contemplating getting the super conductor cable for my 1266 phi, trying to get that last oomph quality sound...

God help me...


----------



## jlbrach

I agree and also try to squeeze the last ounce of performance I can as well but the speaker amp is for me a case of such inconvenience and over the top effort of course it is only my personal opinion


----------



## Zhanming057

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. Well if the Air tight is 15-18K I would dare it to A/B with the Genus. I would pitch the Genus v a Kondo SET for example. 25W SET with big bottle tubes do amazing things...
> 
> I would try some 211 speaker amps if possible, and look at the Ayon range. May come up used as been around for a long time. The 300B has that nice midrange, agree, but does it have the bass control? That is the question.



300b is going to be softer around the edges than price-no-object 845. But as 300b's go the ATM300 is far and above the most well sorted of the bunch. It's not really that tubelike because performance is so high that it doesn't have flaws that people usually associate with 300b amps (softness, darkness, etc.). I haven't heard the Genus but it's a step above the Egoista in terms of most objectives and not lagging in bass control.


----------



## Zhanming057

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Interesting report. I actually own the Empys and do like them a lot, so I’d encourage you to give them a second chance. You seemed to have been intrigued by the RAAL quite a bit. My question is ... is listening to music with so little bass any fun? Because that is the biggest plus of the ab-1266, this amazing bass while still being fast. The RAAL only seems to have one ability of the two.



The SR1a's bass is more 2-channel like, reminiscent of a conventional system without specific bass range amplification, there isn't that final bit of power that's coming through the cups itself. But it's not bass light so much as the Abyss is bass heavy. But it's a matter of preference - I know people who run 2 channels with a sub and that's a solution if you have speakers and want that last bit of oof. 

I do appreciate both presentations - the Phi's bass, when properly driven, isn't drowning out anything else, and there is enough bass on the SR1a for almost any genre you'd care to listen to on a TOTL system.


----------



## astrostar59

ATM300 can be tube rolled I would think? Genus is not tubby, rather big dynamics and accurate timbre. Classic SET micro detail and realistic, BUT real world bass and bass control, no flabby 300B going on here.


----------



## Zhanming057

astrostar59 said:


> ATM300 can be tube rolled I would think? Genus is not tubby, rather big dynamics and accurate timbre. Classic SET micro detail and realistic, BUT real world bass and bass control, no flabby 300B going on here.



You could, but the latest configuration already comes with Takatsuki TA300's in the box. I would say that anything in production is going be a downgrade from those.


----------



## szymonsays

I heard Z reviews mention on one of his newest videos regarding RMAF that Abyss is planning to show a system that would rival the Orpheus? Sounds interesting


----------



## Zhanming057

szymonsays said:


> I heard Z reviews mention on one of his newest videos regarding RMAF that Abyss is planning to show a system that would rival the Orpheus? Sounds interesting



If you want to rival the HE1, you don't need a new system...just put the TC on that ATM300 and you have a system that far exceeds the technical ability of the HE1, the HE1's (pretty terrible) DAC not withstanding.


----------



## popof94 (Aug 26, 2019)

Great and impressive return Simone.
I am exactly in the opposite way. I like so much the Empyrean with a full silver cable from Norne audio on the Viva 845, it is actually my best headphone with the D8000 and the 009S from Stax.
As you know, I am not a big fan of the Abyss TC on the formula S or on the 845. Except the excellent soundstage I find the abyss a very rude and uncomfortable headphone.
Not a big fan of the Susvara too, I sold it after less than 1 month.
Very interested by the Raal. I tried the Mysphere 3.2 but i founded it uncomfortable with distorsion at high volume and a big loss of bass.


----------



## simorag

jlbrach said:


> I think this is an interesting presentation but i will be honest in that I still do not understand the allure of huge bulky enormously heavy speaker amps that cost a fortune for a HP setup...I personally own a Mcintosh 452 which weighs about 200 pounds and sits in my living room attached to my loudspeaker system....my HP setup which includes the TC along with the dave/blu2 and the formula s /powerman is in my bedroom where i relax and listen to music.....I suppose if somebody only listens to their music in a living room area a speaker amp could be attached to the chord dave etc but somehow it seems like such inconvenience and overkill....the cost is yet another consideration of course....I certainly do not fault anyone for curiosity and testing of a speaker amp but to me it is like the car that can drive 200 MPH but of course you can never find a place to go 200 mph lol.....just my 2 cents and god bless all those who are willing to do all involved to use the speaker amps



In my specific case, any amp that fits into my rack would match fine my listening spot on the side of my couch in my living room. That includes all amps (headphones or speakers) under 35kg and 550×550mm footprint.

Of the amps I have tried so far, the AIC-10, Thrax and ATM300 clearly outperformed by a significant amount (while in different ways) my previous XI Audio combo in terms of pure sound quality, to my ears. They are also much more expensive, unfortunately.​
Now, I don't believe this is _because_ they are speaker amps _per se _(the AIC-10 is actually a headphone amp with additional speaker taps), but just because they are better suiting to my personal sound preferences.

There may be lots of headphone amps that could be even better, I admittedly have a very limited experience. Unfortunately, auditioning higher echelon headphone amps in Italy is basically impossible, while speaker amps are - relatively - more accessible. Another advantage of speaker amps is that they are easier to find (and resell) in the 2nd hand market, at least in Italy / Europe.

As for the rated power, I am not sure that looking for 100W+ (speaker) amplifiers to drive the Phi TC provides an advantage because of 'additional headroom', possibly (??) because the first few watts - i.e. what is really needed for the hp - are provided with very low distortion figures and in pure class A, but I am just speculating here as I have neither direct experience nor technical competence to substantiate this.



Zhanming057 said:


> You could, but the latest configuration already comes with Takatsuki TA300's in the box. I would say that anything in production is going be a downgrade from those.



For what I know , the ATM-300R list price in Europe is 15k + tubes. Basic 300B tubes (what I heard in Amsterdam) are Electro Harmonix (+1kEuro) and maxed out Takatsuki TA300 tubes are offered with a +3.5kEuro supplement.



szymonsays said:


> I heard Z reviews mention on one of his newest videos regarding RMAF that Abyss is planning to show a system that would rival the Orpheus? Sounds interesting



Now that would be a perfect timing for me as long as the headphones on such system are the AB-1266TC and not a new model 



popof94 said:


> I am exactly in the opposite way. I like so much the Empyrean with a full silver cable from Norne audio on the Viva 845, it is actually my best headphone with the D8000 and the 009S from Stax.
> As you know, I am not a big fan of the Abyss TC on the formula S or on the 845. Except the excellent soundstage I find the abyss a very rude and uncomfortable headphone.
> Not a big fan of the Susvara I sold after less than 1 month.
> Very interested by the Raal. I tried the Mysphere 3.2 but i founded it uncomfortable with distorsion at high volume and a big loss of bass.



This could be the typical case of 'different strokes for different folks' most likely.
That said, I honestly would need much more time with the Empyrean to make an educated judgment of them against the Phi TC.
Perhaps next time I will come to Paris I could visit you, Jean Michel


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## popof94 (Aug 26, 2019)

Of course Simone, you are very welcome if you want to visit me and you will be able to listen all my headphones with égalisations created by a very reputable membre on tellement nomade.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

"This could be the typical case of 'different strokes for different folks' most likely.
That said, I honestly would need much more time with the Empyrean to make an educated judgment of them against the Phi TC."

I'd be interested in your take on the Empyrean.  I only heard it for a short time at a CanJam but my initial take was that it sounded a bit veiled compared to the Abyss.


----------



## Mikey99

Here is my comparison of the Abyss and Empyrean from a while back



Mikey99 said:


> I have compared the Empyrean and the Abyss AB1266 using a wide variety of music that I usually use for comparisons. Amongst others this includes: Master and Commander, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Lou Reed Walk on the Wild Side, various Joni Mitchell, Guess Who Follow your Daughter Home, Gotan Project Chunga's Revenge and La del Russo, Miles Davis Kind of Blue, Klaatu Little Neutrino, Interstellar, Inception, B52s, various Zappa. I used iMac / Roon> optical>Chord Hugo M-Scaler>Chord DAVE > XI Audio Formula S with Powerman.  The Empyreans are very efficient in comparison to the Abyss and are easily driven direct from the Dave (unlike the Abyss). But to minimise variables I went from the Formula S for both for this comparison.
> 
> They are beautifully packaged, best I have seen for headphones. Funny thing, opening the case and taking them out I couldn't help thinking of a hitman assembling a gun.  Build quality is amazing, I almost didn't want to handle them because they looked like a work of art. Nevertheless they are solid and can be handled without fear. Really well assembled and a lot of attention to detail. The cable however is poor: stiff, fiddly, a bit microphonic.
> 
> ...


----------



## Zhanming057

@popof94 That's a beautiful amp!!

@simorag I stand corrected. Stefan gave me the impression that the amp came in his config out of the box. 300b rolling is a bottomless pit, of course...something like 845 or EL84 is easier on the brain and wallet


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## astrostar59

845s can be expensive if you get the better tubes. KL Audio for example. EL84 are cheap, but IMO you won't get the drive for the Abyss in triode, and I would avoid push pull if you want speed and transparency. I have yet to hear a better sound than through my Genus..... still waiting......


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## Olumm

Ok everyone. I wanted to provide an update to the cable for the 1266 that was made by Periapt. Let me first say that I am not affiliated with Periapt in any way, nor did they ask me to write anything about this cable. I have purchased several cables from them over the years, but I am by no means being asked to provide a good review, nor am I keeping this cable... more on that below.




 

First of all I would like to address the stock able that came with the 1266. Now, I assume that this cable was from the earlier models of the 1266, as I checked with Abyss and my serial number was produced in June of 2016. The cable, sound wise, is fine. I do not hear any issues in either driver and it appears that it has held up well over the last few years. The issue I have with the cable is how janky it is, and there is no strain relief, split or any creature comforts at all. This is by far the most bizarre cable I have had on any headphone. It's a stiff cable that just refuses to lay at all in a calm manner. It's not microphonic  or cumbersome, but I just can't live with something like this on a quality headphone like the 1266, and I believe that JPS could/should have done a better job with it without asking people to spend an extreme amount of hard earned money on another cable. That's it... rant over.

Ok, so what does Periapt bring to the table? Well, first of all they bring a much better looking cable to the table. The cable is fabric covered and soft. You can see in the picture above that it's a breeze to shape in to a nice loop, where the stock cable just wants to tangle up (I guarantee that at least one of the connectors has looped through the wire in the picture above). The cable that was sent to me is grey and terminated in to a 4 pin XLR which works perfect for me and the AudioGD R-28. If I had one minor criticism about the Periapt cable in the looks/functionality area it's the y-split that they are using. It's large and occasionally gets stuck on the edge of my desk, but I have been ordering cables from these guys for quite sometime without the 3D printed splits, and I much prefer it that way. Their cables start at 5 feet and can be made to any custom length that you choose.

As for materials they are using Japanese "Mogami" copper for their wire, Neutrik connectors and custom 3D printed splitters (I would advise just ordering with heat shrink, but that's my opinion).

Sound... 

I cannot tell any difference between the stock Abyss cable and the one from Periapt.... at all. I must say that I also don't subscribe to the concept that cables can change the sound signature of headphones for my ears. I mean, if your cable is changing the way something sounds, then chances are likely that something is wrong with that cable. I have owned bad cables before, and I can confirm that changing a cable in that scenario will improve things, but I have also tried pure silver cables and heard no difference at all. Maybe my ears just aren't up to the levels as some...guess that's a blessing to my wallet.  

Here is the really special piece. Periapt offers a tremendous value to anyone that is wanting to have a custom cable created for their 1266. Their pricing starts at $65 for a 5 foot cable and will go up from there. I get the fact that I am running a nearly $5k (when new) headphone from a $65 cable, but I honestly cannot tell a difference to my ears and on my gear.

I have to say thank you to Periapt for this opportunity, and if they are willing I would love to send this over to anyone else on this thread that would like to try it out. I will be ordering a 10 foot variant of this cable from them, but in one of their custom colors called 'snake', which is basically a desert camo color option.

Again, if any of you would like to try this cable out with your 1266 please let me know.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

I believe you're the first person to call the cable bizarre, not the headphone.

The cable has appropriate stain reliefs. Your stock cable was apparently used to hold the headphone up on the desk, from your photo it's obvious the headphone was standing on the cable ends. We see this when the stand is too short for the headphone.

One thing to note, you need to lay both leads flat before connecting to the headphone. If you twist a cable when connecting to the headphone it will for sure not lay right to the other cable. It's the nature of the desirable trait of each channel having it's own cable in the name of improved sound quality, that and we have many customers running dual 3 pin XLR connectors.

If you send us an email someone would be happy to offer instructions on sending your cable our way... We would be happy to replace those beat-up ends.


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## simorag (Aug 27, 2019)

Here is a really interesting video just posted by Pierre Paya:



He's done a direct comparison between the TC and the Susvara, by using the Viva Solista speaker amp.

For whom cannot understand French, of for you lazy guys , the supershort summary of his findings:

- Susvara is definitely his favorite for midrange and vocals, but the TC has narrowed the gap compared to previous AB-1266 revisions;
- TC is his preference at deep bass, speed and dynamics;
- TC has the more spacious soundstage (widest and deepest).

In the end he says that the TC is the only headphone he knows that can play any kind of music genres (from massive bass and dynamics organ or rock / electronica to delicate, ethereal solo violin) to current-state-of-the-art level, hence the most complete of the TOTL available in the market today in his experience / opinion.

Not sure if Pierre participates here on head-fi forum, if yes he could add more or correct me if I have misunderstood his conclusions.


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## popof94 (Aug 27, 2019)

I saw this great video yesterday. You have perfectly translate what Pierre Paya said Simeone, congrat.


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## ufospls2

His videos always look great, and are filmed in a great setting with good editing but.....I don't speak french sadly 

Thanks for the quick notes on the video


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## Olumm (Aug 27, 2019)

Joe Skubinski said:


> I believe you're the first person to call the cable bizarre, not the headphone.
> 
> The cable has appropriate stain reliefs. Your stock cable was apparently used to hold the headphone up on the desk, from your photo it's obvious the headphone was standing on the cable ends. We see this when the stand is too short for the headphone.
> 
> ...



Hey Joe, and  from another Joe I appreciate your insight on the proper way to attach the cable to the headphone. I didn't have a lot of insight from the previous owner, but I do agree with you on how the cable was treated previously.

The headphone is an amazing design. I love it's industrial look, and I appreciate the fact that it can be refurbished to keep it running for decades to come. I had several people over at my house last night and everyone took a turn on the 1266. The 1266 has given more astonishing looks at blank stares than any other headphone I have had the pleasure of owning, and it makes me wonder if the name Abyss had anything to do with the way people look while listening to it for the first time.

Your staff has been a pleasure. I had emailed them several times during my pre-purchase of the 1266, and they were always quick to respond and very helpful. I also appreciate that there is an upgrade path for my 1266. I may not be able to get it up to the TC, but getting the Phi drivers installed is something that I will be pursuing in the next few months. I will bring up the cable when I email you all about the Phi upgrade.

Thanks again.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Hello guys, very interested on these headphones. I know that the 1266 has many versions. Can someone explain the differences between them ? I tried to search them but no sucess. 

Best regards

Joao


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## mulder01

There have been a few revisions, but if you buy new, you will only get the newest revision

There was the original ab1266
Then the ab1266 phi - new drivers
Then the ab1266 phi cc - same new drivers, different earpads, different frame coating/finish
Now the ab1266 phi tc - newer drivers again, new frame design again
Pretty sure that's how it went anyway...

If you are looking to buy second hand, any of the older revisions are still extremely good.


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## simorag

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Hello guys, very interested on these headphones. I know that the 1266 has many versions. Can someone explain the differences between them ? I tried to search them but no sucess.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Joao



Hi Joao, the only current production version of the AB-1266 headphone is the AB-1266 Phi TC model, presented on February 2019.

Here is a brief history of the various design iterations:

AB-1266 OG (Original) - was introduced in 2013, only available in the 2nd hand market
AB-1266 Phi - introduced in 2017, had revised drivers, only available in the 2nd hand market
AB-1266 Phi CC - introduced in 2018, has same drivers of the Phi version, but updated earpads (perforated leather) and Ceramic Coated (hence the CC definition) frame. Some dealers may still have some ex-demo or brand new Phi CC in stock

The Phi TC has newer drivers (3rd generation compared to OG and Phi) and frame machining.

In order to check which model is a certain headphone, just remove the pads and look at the frame, where the model type is engraved (see example below).


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## Joao Paulo Martins

mulder01 said:


> There have been a few revisions, but if you buy new, you will only get the newest revision
> 
> There was the original ab1266
> Then the ab1266 phi - new drivers
> ...





simorag said:


> Hi Joao, the only current production version of the AB-1266 headphone is the AB-1266 Phi TC model, presented on February 2019.
> 
> Here is a brief history of the various design iterations:
> 
> ...


Thank you for the explanation.

The intention is to buy from second hand since I live in Brazil. Is the original and the Phi version competitive with the susvaras ? Or just the TC ?


----------



## mulder01

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Thank you for the explanation.
> 
> The intention is to buy from second hand since I live in Brazil. Is the original and the Phi version competitive with the susvaras ? Or just the TC ?


I listened to the susvaras and thought they were good, but that's about it.  
I only owned the original version of the Abyss and I think that it was still better than the susvaras (any 1266 version > susvara), but others may have a different opinion...
Also, IMO there wasn't a massive difference from 1266 original version to phi, but I have not heard a TC.  Abyss availability in Australia has dropped off, and I've scaled back to a mid-fi system.  So I can't offer any opinion on whether or not I think the second hand price difference between TC and previous versions are 'worth it'...


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## tholt

Anyone tried the Audio Art cables with Abyss 1266 Phi? https://audioartcable.com/products/headphone-portable-cables/

Fairly decent pricing, 20% off sale through Labor Day. At least one reviewer I know of here liked them (though not specifically for Abyss).


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## astrostar59 (Aug 30, 2019)

*Wow, the Abyss really scales up with more powerful / better amps.*






Rough photo for now, but more to come later. I am on my second system, so Audio Note DAC, and relaced my V281 HP amp with the Moon 600i Integrated. 

*After 2 or 3 hours warming it up, all I can say is WOW. AMAZING. *

Everything has moved up a LOT, it is a shock. I estimate it is really close to my Aries Cerat Genus now, but on SS amplification not big bottle SET.

This amp refuses to go harsh in vocals, cymbals, anything. It is very very smooth but has the details as well. It is down to better design, better parts, massive power supply ect.

The soundstage is cavernous, really huge. I can sit in it and it is all around me, width and depth. Some tracks I know have crazy effects where things appear in the room, not in the headphone. On the 600i it is right against the room perimeters, it is amazing.

The V281 was a great amp for 2K but not at this level. It is not just parts quality and design, it is about drive, current and control. And really glad I didn't pursue the tube HP amp route, I think few tube amps would have enough control or current for the Abyss. The 600i has 125W and is on 40 on my pot with 2V input. I think the amp has 20W at 50ohms, so really ticking over on the Abyss, piece of cake for it. The amp top is barely warm, it feels like it is ticking over.

I can't trip up this thing, playing various problem tracks with treble issues, it just sails through them. There is a huge amount of detail and layering no matter how complex the music gets, it is very natural and unstressed. The bass has super detail, texture, speed and crucially control. It is very fast as well. I got the feeling on some HP amps I have tried with the Abyss is got a bit loose and sounded separated from the main image. The mids have also come up, and fit into the soundstage better. Vocals and piano are superbly natural, no exaggerated edges or hint of harshness.

Another point, why do so any HP amps have no balance control, that is stupid. As many have one ear less sensitive than the other. With headphones that is really important, or the image is ruined.

Really, so far I can't fault the 600i, it is a superb amp, probably the best I have ever heard on SS. And the features fit very well for headphone use, such as the e-vol 520 step pot, remote control, ability to set a max volume level per source, balance control, input level adjustment, mute and standby feature. A great design IMO, and no wonder it had won many awards.

So highly recommended for the Abyss, it isn't cheap at £8K new, but used MK1s are around for much less. Mine is a Mk1 and 3 years old.

Many thanks to Beolab for his insight, a small Abyss / Moon amp club emerging?
More to follow.


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## Hoegaardener70

6 weeks abyss ab-1266 phi tc owner here .... after a difficult start with the frame I found the right setting for my head and positions, and now I couldn’t be happier. This is definitely the most fun headphone I ever listened to and I feel privileged to own it. My utopia and empy get very little time now although I think they both bring different things to the table. 

I am using the ifi Pro iCan which i think is a splendid pairing with the ab-1266. I am running it in tube mode .... anybody else using this with this seating?


----------



## Olumm

Well, I am now fully operational with my 1266 through my setup. I am using the AudioGD R-28 now as a source for the ALO Studio Six. I had some initial troubles with the Studio Six when it arrived (one of the 6v6 tubes was dead, and then the rectifier tube went belly up), but after about a week I am happy to report that all tubes have been replaced and the amp paired with the 1266 has become my favorite way to listen.

I had noticed when running directly off of the R-28 that female vocals tended to sound a little metallic to my ears, but the switch over to the Studio Six has worked that out, and now female vocals have a sweet, full and luscious presence in the music. Specifically, I had a hard time listening to anything from Melody Gardot on the R-28 only, but now she sounds like she should. There must be some strange peak in the response of the OG 1266 where female vocals are present that was making them sound artificial and metallic, but now running them through the Studio Six has sorted that all out.

Speaking of the Studio Six, there is an almost unlimited amount of power available. On the R-28 I had to run the 1266, through a balanced cable, on 40 out of 63 on full. On the Studio Six the volume pot is sitting below 10 o'clock on the dial. There is still 3/4 of the dial left... that's some scary power, no wonder why you can run speakers from this. The 1266 characteristics still remain running through an SET amp, but it does tend to push everything a little closer to a more normal response... which is a nice change of pace from the absurd (in the best way possible) amounts of bass the 1266 has on a solid state amp.

I am in awe of how the 1266 presents a stage of music. There is clear separation of instruments, and more than that each individual instrument has space around it. The 1266 presents such a large stage, that it feels like each instrument was located in it's own room during recording. There is also a fantastic depth to the music, which helps to further place space around each instrument. I have been in this hobby for some time now and I just don't remember any headphone presenting music quite like this... it almost turns recorded studio albums in to a live performance. This is such a wonderful party piece of the 1266, and one that I do not see talked about often enough. Yes, the 1266 probably has the best bass out of any headphone on earth, but it also stages and images better than any other headphone I have heard. I keep looking over at my HD800 wondering why I am still holding on to it. The HD800 is a freak of a dynamic driver... it's probably the quickest dynamic driver I have ever heard, but it just cannot compete with the speed of the 1266. The decay, if called for by the music, is just in a totally different league than the HD800. Quick bass lines in music tend to trip up the HD800, but not in the 1266. For instance, and I know that talking about Giant Steps is cliche, but this song is a stellar example of what I am trying to describe. On the HD800 you can hear the bass line, but it tends to get very muddy when John joins the music with his quick sax work. It's hard to hear each and every note of the stand up bass, but on the 1266 there is clear separation from each pick of his fingers, and more than that each note is present and easily caught. The 1266 is just a phenomenal achievement, and I am honored to own one.

I would urge any of you that can try out an ALO Studio Six with their 1266 to do so. I may have not heard the 1266 on a lot of different amps, but for me this is where I am ending my search in the audio world. I am more than satisfied with my current setup, and quite frankly I smile every time I sit down in my listening room to spend some time with my music. I am a lover of music, and this setup allows me to love the way that music is presented to me.


----------



## astrostar59 (Sep 12, 2019)

*More hours on the mad Abyss + Moon 600i combo. *

I am in heaven, what a pairing. It is addictive, so smooth and masses of depth. Layers of information, it refuses to get congested or confused.
Here are some areas where this amp excels on the Abyss:

1.Precise instrument placement
2. Huge 3D space, both width, height and depth
3. Dynamics that startle you
4. Creamy smooth mid range
5. Clean, fast and detailed treble with zero harshness or edges
6. Fantastic vocals, really clean and detailed, very realistic
7. Bass, a whole new ball game, fast, detailed, controlled and deep, down to sub frequencies, like a couple of SVS subs ready to act
8. Cohesion, the stereo image is really believable, as convincing as anything I have heard on any headphone

The whole presentation is so grounded, smooth, full and wide, effortless. It is like a top vinyl rig, i.e. natural and fatigue free, hours of late nights.....


----------



## ineztia

astrostar59 said:


> *More hour on the mad Abyss + Moon 600i combo. *
> 
> The whole presentation is so grounded, smooth, full and wide, effortless. It is like a top vinyl rig, i.e. natural and fatigue free, hours of late nights.....



I couldn't agree more. A good SS amp is a good SS amp.

I A/B tested my Abyss 1266 phi (not TC) on both Formula S/Accuphase E480/FM Acoustics 711, after that I'd say Hi-end speaker amps won't let you disappointed.


----------



## astrostar59

ineztia said:


> I couldn't agree more. A good SS amp is a good SS amp.
> 
> I A/B tested my Abyss 1266 phi (not TC) on both Formula S/Accuphase E480/FM Acoustics 711, after that I'd say Hi-end speaker amps won't let you disappointed.



I heard the Formula S inc Powerman at Munich and it was very good. So what amp have you landed on now - are you at your 'destination'


----------



## ineztia

astrostar59 said:


> I heard the Formula S inc Powerman at Munich and it was very good. So what amp have you landed on now - are you at your 'destination'



Accuphase E480 is my current gear. FM 711(borrowed from my friend) is perfect however the price is "perfect" too, it's an ideal amp for me but now I can't afford it.


----------



## astrostar59

ineztia said:


> Accuphase E480 is my current gear. FM 711(borrowed from my friend) is perfect however the price is "perfect" too, it's an ideal amp for me but now I can't afford it.



OK. It all underlines how the Abyss can sale to new heights, just as a top level speaker can/should. I guess I should not be surprised. The Abyss to my ears and taste is tops, the best HP I have heard, and I prefer it to the Susvara, LCD4, RAAL, Stax 009. Those headphones do some things well, but IMO can't match the 'complete package' of the Abyss.


----------



## ineztia (Sep 1, 2019)

astrostar59 said:


> OK. It all underlines how the Abyss can sale to new heights, just as a top level speaker can/should. I guess I should not be surprised. The Abyss to my ears and taste is tops, the best HP I have heard, and I prefer it to the Susvara, LCD4, RAAL, Stax 009. Those headphones do some things well, but IMO can't match the 'complete package' of the Abyss.



Exactly, just treat 1266/Susvara/HE6 and all those low-sensitivity top level planar HPs as speakers.

I think Formula S (without Powerman) is a descent HP amp, and particularly good for 1266 phi. It's clean, smooth, elegant. I'm not sure if it played some tricks to suppress the exaggerated treble from 1266 (at the cost of losing some transparency and treble extension), so as to be more friendly to your ears. Anyway it pairs wonderful with 1266, brilliant choice for enjoying the music.

E480 acts like an upgrade+ version of Formula S, they have similar tonal characteristics, but E480 has more bass texture, treble extension, fuller mids and more 3-dimensional soundstage (you can clearly hear those differences through the track "Yosi Horikawa - Wandering"). The only problem is also the treble which is too bright (I have to set treble level -1 or -2 on E480's panel).

The FM711 is of course better on naturalness, layering and dynamics compares to E480, but doesn't benefit 1266 as much (like it does to Susvara) as you'd expect, I'm quite satisfy with the situation coz it saves me a lot of money from further insane upgrading. lol


----------



## hakiu1980

astrostar59 said:


> OK. It all underlines how the Abyss can sale to new heights, just as a top level speaker can/should. I guess I should not be surprised. The Abyss to my ears and taste is tops, the best HP I have heard, and I prefer it to the Susvara, LCD4, RAAL, Stax 009. Those headphones do some things well, but IMO can't match the 'complete package' of the Abyss.



Agreed, I also sold both of my 009s and Susvara since I owned abyss Phi which paired with viva 845 amp -- Now also upgraded to TC.


----------



## astrostar59

hakiu1980 said:


> Agreed, I also sold both of my 009s and Susvara since I owned abyss Phi which paired with viva 845 amp -- Now also upgraded to TC.



Indeed, and my point, the Abyss has an incredible performance envelope. If it didn't we would just not hear what we are hearing. I used to own Stax for years, culminating in the 009 + KGSShv Carbon driven by my Audio Note DAC 5. But in the end the weaknesses in the 009, namely unconvincing bass and midrange weight / body, along with ethereal treble and exaggerated micro / macro / plankton. This led my to the Planars with the LCD4 200ohm driven by the Violectric V281. This was for me better all round than my 009. Then found the Abyss, and looked at alternative HP amps.

IMO the Abyss can still be an amazing HP off a top HP amp is care is taken in choosing it, for example it is great out of the Formula S inc Powerman.


----------



## astrostar59

hakiu1980 said:


> Agreed, I also sold both of my 009s and Susvara since I owned abyss Phi which paired with viva 845 amp -- Now also upgraded to TC.


You got some pics?


----------



## hakiu1980 (Sep 2, 2019)

astrostar59 said:


> You got some pics?




 Yeah, attached.


----------



## astrostar59 (Sep 2, 2019)

My Aries Cerat Genus.





Look nice in Ivory as well. This is a HF members 845.





Off Pierre Paya's.website.


----------



## bfreedma

Astrostar mentioned his Aries Cerat.

Everyone drink.


----------



## cj3209

astrostar59 said:


> My Aries Cerat Genus.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My goodness...if that is the natural progression to headphone listening, I'm good with what I have...lol...


----------



## astrostar59

bfreedma said:


> Astrostar mentioned his Aries Cerat.
> 
> Everyone drink.


I know, I am trying to stop it, but it is a drug, and sounds so good......


----------



## CreditingKarma

cj3209 said:


> My goodness...if that is the natural progression to headphone listening, I'm good with what I have...lol...



The natural progression to headphone listening is highend two channel with headphones as a back up. From that point it is a dangerous slope.


----------



## attmci (Sep 5, 2019)

https://www.headphones.com/products/abyss-ab-1266-phi-tc






LOL @Torq


----------



## CreditingKarma

attmci said:


> https://www.headphones.com/products/abyss-ab-1266-phi-tc
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow favorite pairing is with the ifi xdsd and mytek liberty. ROLF


----------



## tholt

attmci said:


> LOL



???? You're seriously trolling this thread?


----------



## attmci

tholt said:


> ???? You're seriously trolling this thread?


Did you see the picture? You must have


CreditingKarma said:


> Wow favorite pairing is with the ifi xdsd and mytek liberty. ROLF


The picture shows a pre-TC, and the R- and L- connections are reversed.


----------



## CreditingKarma

attmci said:


> Did you see the picture? You must have
> 
> The picture shows a pre-TC, and the R- and L- connections are reversed.



That is a pre phi cc so a really old photo. Only way it would be better is if someone was wearing them backwards too. I still like their favorite pairings.


----------



## astrostar59

I came from 2 channel to HPs (both). I enjoy both TBH. Tubes on the horn speakers, SS on the Abyss + LCD4.


----------



## phase0

No JPS Labs at RMAF this year?


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Sep 6, 2019)

One of our guys is in room 9105 with Diana V2, Diana Phi, and a XIAUDIO system.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Joe Skubinski said:


> One of our guys is in room 9105 with Diana V2, Diana Phi, and a XIAUDIO system.



That is room that zeos is in. I am sure he is going to be blasting speakers there too. Less than an ideal place to experience your outstanding headphones. I absolutely love my AB1266 PHI TC.


----------



## attmci

CreditingKarma said:


> The natural progression to headphone listening is highend two channel with headphones as a back up. From that point it is a dangerous slope.


Where did you hide the 1266?

BTW, whenever I see Joe here, I think he might suggest another upgrade of the TC.


----------



## CreditingKarma

attmci said:


> Where did you hide the 1266?
> 
> BTW, whenever I see Joe here, I think he might suggest another upgrade of the TC.



Sorry here is one with the abyss in it. I actually had the dealer pair on loan until mine came in. That was a photo from before they came in. I listen to the Magico setup most of the time. It is so good. The abyss is for late night sessions.


----------



## attmci

CreditingKarma said:


> Sorry here is one with the abyss in it. I actually had the dealer pair on loan until mine came in. That was a photo from before they came in. I listen to the Magico setup most of the time. It is so good. The abyss is for late night sessions.


You may want to do something to protect the $149 headband. I saw a lot of solutions on this thread.


----------



## CreditingKarma

attmci said:


> You may want to do something to protect the $149 headband. I saw a lot of solutions on this thread.




I am looking for a taller headphone stand. If irest the frame on the audioquest one it will damage the cable. Do you know of a taller stand option? No way I was going to order the upgraded package just to get the stand and bag. You can order the bag for $182 right now direct from copper river.


----------



## simorag

CreditingKarma said:


> I am looking for a taller headphone stand. If irest the frame on the audioquest one it will damage the cable. Do you know of a taller stand option? No way I was going to order the upgraded package just to get the stand and bag. You can order the bag for $182 right now direct from copper river.



I happily use this:
https://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-Technology-EBA01B-Aluminum-Headphone/dp/B00Y54RXO8

Placed a felt pad underneath the Abyss frame (in the center) to avoid wearing due to metal-to-metal contact.


----------



## CreditingKarma

simorag said:


> I happily use this:
> https://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-Technology-EBA01B-Aluminum-Headphone/dp/B00Y54RXO8
> 
> Placed a felt pad underneath the Abyss frame (in the center) to avoid wearing due to metal-to-metal contact.




Is it tall enough not to put stress on the cable where it meets the h3adphone housing?


----------



## tholt

If you have a desk or tabletop or something to clamp these onto, it's a $25 solution from Amazon (each headphone holder is ~$12)


----------



## Joe Skubinski

attmci said:


> BTW, whenever I see Joe here, I think he might suggest another upgrade of the TC.



We had enough upgrades for a while.

Woo audio sells a decent stand with adjustable height. Note that headbands from the last 2 years or so are pretty sturdy, they shouldn't stretch out while set on a stand.

The copper river bag [they certainly make nice bags], ours is customized for the 1266 with some added interior leather and large open pocket. The stock bags have rivet heads inside where the metal carry strap rings are mounted that may scratch the headphone. If you buy one be sure to figure out a way to cover the rivets.


----------



## simorag

CreditingKarma said:


> Is it tall enough not to put stress on the cable where it meets the h3adphone housing?


----------



## CreditingKarma

Joe Skubinski said:


> We had enough upgrades for a while.
> 
> Woo audio sells a decent stand with adjustable height. Note that headbands from the last 2 years or so are pretty sturdy, they shouldn't stretch out while set on a stand.
> 
> The copper river bag [they certainly make nice bags], ours is customized for the 1266 with some added interior leather and large open pocket. The stock bags have rivet heads inside where the metal carry strap rings are mounted that may scratch the headphone. If you buy one be sure to figure out a way to cover the rivets.



@Joe Skubinski do you sell the bag seperately?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The bag and stand only comes with the Deluxe version, but if you contact us I'm sure we can work out something.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Joe Skubinski said:


> The bag and stand only comes with the Deluxe version, but if you contact us I'm sure we can work out something.


Hmmm....I contacted you all about buying a replacement stand for my TCs, and the person I talked to said that they would not be able to sell me the stand.  In fact, they told me to buy a Woo Audio stand instead.  I'm using an Audioquest Perch at the moment, but I really would like to have the official stand, if possible


----------



## Litlgi74

Ciggavelli said:


> Hmmm....I contacted you all about buying a replacement stand for my TCs, and the person I talked to said that they would not be able to sell me the stand.  In fact, they told me to buy a Woo Audio stand instead.  I'm using an Audioquest Perch at the moment, but I really would like to have the official stand, if possible


The official headphone stand without the Abyss logo...

Just Mobile HeadStand High-Design Aluminum Headphone Hanger - Black (HS-100BK) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C99MTEU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_0dTCDbAVBQR6T


----------



## phase0

Joe Skubinski said:


> One of our guys is in room 9105 with Diana V2, Diana Phi, and a XIAUDIO system.



Bummer my one and only interest this year was to hear the Abyss TC and try to decide if I need to upgrade immediately. I wanted to hear it first. Will you be there next year? IDK how the #s work out but you did make a sale to me as a result of your presence.


----------



## CreditingKarma

phase0 said:


> Bummer my one and only interest this year was to hear the Abyss TC and try to decide if I need to upgrade immediately. I wanted to hear it first. Will you be there next year? IDK how the #s work out but you did make a sale to me as a result of your presence.




The TC is a substantial upgrade in sound quality over the pho to my ears. More speed and resolution with better mids.


----------



## tholt

CreditingKarma said:


> The TC is a substantial upgrade in sound quality over the pho to my ears. More speed and resolution with better mids.



See below



phase0 said:


> I wanted to hear it first.


----------



## Sage Encore

I was quoted Singapore Dollars $2650 for upgrading my Phi CC to TC and that excludes shipping from the local agent here in Singapore. Too cheap........in total after buying the Phi CC for SGD6600, I now need to pump in another SGD3000. LOL...........


----------



## phase0

CreditingKarma said:


> The TC is a substantial upgrade in sound quality over the pho to my ears. More speed and resolution with better mids.



Right it seems everyone agrees. I felt it was a nice upgrade to move to Chord mScaler + TT2 and gave me more resolution and sound stage. I'm pretty happy where I'm at. I know show conditions aren't always ideal but it's also the only place I can run around and hear all of the TOTLs. It took until the Phi to convince me to jump on to the Abyss (in part due to the cost). I've bought blind before like the Focal Utopia (regrets except once I broke spending $4K USD for a HP what's a little more to get the real king Abyss?) So yah. I'm good now. I want to hear them. I don't really feel upgraditis any more though despite all the praise heaped on the TC.


----------



## CreditingKarma

phase0 said:


> Right it seems everyone agrees. I felt it was a nice upgrade to move to Chord mScaler + TT2 and gave me more resolution and sound stage. I'm pretty happy where I'm at. I know show conditions aren't always ideal but it's also the only place I can run around and hear all of the TOTLs. It took until the Phi to convince me to jump on to the Abyss (in part due to the cost). I've bought blind before like the Focal Utopia (regrets except once I broke spending $4K USD for a HP what's a little more to get the real king Abyss?) So yah. I'm good now. I want to hear them. I don't really feel upgraditis any more though despite all the praise heaped on the TC.




I really like the TT2 and M-scaler. I want to hear the abyss with a dcs bartok or vivaldi before I spend that kind of money. Right now I am happy with my metrum onyx and Cavalli liquid platinum with the TC. They do really well j with R2R dacs.i might just end up with a pavane or denafrips terminator but I would need to hear them in my two channel setup as well.


----------



## cj3209

CreditingKarma said:


> I really like the TT2 and M-scaler. I want to hear the abyss with a dcs bartok or vivaldi before I spend that kind of money. Right now I am happy with my metrum onyx and Cavalli liquid platinum with the TC. They do really well j with R2R dacs.i might just end up with a pavane or denafrips terminator but I would need to hear them in my two channel setup as well.


Dude, I'd like to hear your magicos... 

Wait, that sounds weird...


----------



## CreditingKarma

cj3209 said:


> Dude, I'd like to hear your magicos...
> 
> Wait, that sounds weird...




If you are ever in the chicago area let me know. The Magico factory is in CA they have an incredible listening room. The build on heck of a speaker.


----------



## attmci (Sep 7, 2019)

simorag said:


>


I purchased one several years ago. I put it on top of my Synology to avoid the cables to jam into the desktop.




Dude, your ear pad seems not paralleled.

One of the methods:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-570#post-15065524


----------



## cj3209

CreditingKarma said:


> If you are ever in the chicago area let me know. The Magico factory is in CA they have an incredible listening room. The build on heck of a speaker.


Appreciate that!


----------



## CreditingKarma

cj3209 said:


> Appreciate that!



I would love to hear your pavane with them as well. Maybe hifi heaven will let me borrow one to audition. I did buy my onyx from them


----------



## NZtechfreak

Ah, good to know that headphone stand works for these as I have that one. Thanks. May take a little while, but the TC is my next headphone purchase and I had thought I would need a new headphone stand.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Litlgi74 said:


> The official headphone stand without the Abyss logo...
> 
> Just Mobile HeadStand High-Design Aluminum Headphone Hanger - Black (HS-100BK) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C99MTEU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_0dTCDbAVBQR6T



 

Actually the stock Just Mobile stand will cause the cables to jam into the desktop, it's too short. Our stand is based on this except we machine an extended portion to raise height, change out hardware, etc, etc, so the ABYSS stand is a modified version. We don't sell this stand separately because there are lower cost alternatives as many have shown. 

We will bring in the new German made Rooms Design stand as soon as they can make more than a few, this stand lets you place the headphone on it's frame properly.


----------



## GU1DO

Sage Encore said:


> I was quoted Singapore Dollars $2650 for upgrading my Phi CC to TC and that excludes shipping from the local agent here in Singapore. Too cheap........in total after buying the Phi CC for SGD6600, I now need to pump in another SGD3000. LOL...........


Are you sure ?
i thought abyss stopped the upgrade , they only sell new TC ?


----------



## attmci

GU1DO said:


> Are you sure ?
> i thought abyss stopped the upgrade , they only sell new TC ?


There is nothing $$ can't buy.


----------



## Litlgi74

GU1DO said:


> Are you sure ?
> i thought abyss stopped the upgrade , they only sell new TC ?


According to Abyss..  ONLY the CC version can be upgraded to the TC... I am currently in the cue for the upgrade.


----------



## Litlgi74

Can someone please confirm this track gets really distorted at above normal listening volumes... I really like this song and would like to crank the volume.. but it sounds awful.

 

https://tidal.com/track/84347849

Thanks


----------



## tholt

Litlgi74 said:


> Can someone please confirm this track gets really distorted at above normal listening volumes... I really like this song and would like to crank the volume.. but it sounds awful.



Playing it loud, sounds clean to me


----------



## Litlgi74

tholt said:


> Playing it loud, sounds clean to me


Interesting... You have a Cayin iha-6 right?

Can you go past 12 o'clock in high gain with out distortion? Especially around 43 seconds into the song?


----------



## tholt

Litlgi74 said:


> Interesting... You have a Cayin iha-6 right?



I used to. I use an ampsandsound amp currently. This song is totally clean, I've cranked it, no distortion or clipping at all at any point.


----------



## Sage Encore

Litlgi74 said:


> According to Abyss..  ONLY the CC version can be upgraded to the TC... I am currently in the cue for the upgrade.


Hi,
Care to share how much they are charging in the States for the upgrade?


----------



## JLoud

$1750 was the price I was given.


----------



## MacedonianHero

JLoud said:


> $1750 was the price I was given.



As much as I loved the CC, the TC is worth it to my ears. Just be prepared to look at your upstream rig a bit more carefully as the TC are that much more transparent.


----------



## Litlgi74

JLoud said:


> $1750 was the price I was given.


Me too.


----------



## JLoud

I agree the TC is definitely more revealing than the CC. I also feel the upgrade was worth it. But your mileage may vary. The CC is a wonderful headphone in it's own right.


----------



## attmci

JLoud said:


> $1750 was the price I was given.


Sell the CC, and buy a new TC.


----------



## Litlgi74

attmci said:


> Sell the CC, and buy a new TC.


I've had no luck with that.


----------



## tholt

attmci said:


> Sell the CC, and buy a new TC.



Based on what I've seen on the used market, upgrading is unfortunately the cheaper route.


----------



## NZtechfreak

Unless you're selling to someone who simply doesn't know enough (is not aware the TC exists) I think you're going to have heavily reduce the price selling second hand right now. I've seen a lot of  CCs for sale recently, not touching them unless extremely deeply discounted. Suspect upgrading is the better path for existing owners.


----------



## attmci (Sep 7, 2019)

NZtechfreak said:


> Unless you're selling to someone who simply doesn't know enough (is not aware the TC exists) I think you're going to have heavily reduce the price selling second hand right now. I've seen a lot of  CCs for sale recently, not touching them unless extremely deeply discounted. Suspect upgrading is the better path for existing owners.


As soon as you received the TC, you already loss at least 20% from the price tag.

So it depends (discounted CC+$1750 vs discounted upgraded TC). Anyway, it is a very small and focused market.


----------



## Ayodej

Hey folks, how are you guys connecting to your speaker amps? Is there more than one option? Also are there certain specs in an amp that limits it’s use with the abyss, i.e too powerful of an amp? 150w @ 8ohms, 210w @ 4ohms?


----------



## Litlgi74 (Sep 8, 2019)

Ayodej said:


> Hey folks, how are you guys connecting to your speaker amps? Is there more than one option? Also are there certain specs in an amp that limits it’s use with the abyss, i.e too powerful of an amp? 150w @ 8ohms, 210w @ 4ohms?



I just got a XLR to speaker tap adapter from Ted at Headphone Lounge... He was very easy to work with and I received it in less than one week.


As far as your amps power... It should work just fine... You'd be at 37 watts @ 32Ω.


----------



## Ayodej

Litlgi74 said:


> I just got a XLR to speaker tap adapter from Ted at Headphone Lounge... He was very easy to work with and I received it in less than one week.
> 
> As far as your amps power... It should work just fine... You'd be at 37 watts @ 32Ω.


Thanks for your response and suggestion


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Be careful when using speaker amps on headphones...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-563#post-15016313


----------



## CreditingKarma

Joe Skubinski said:


> Be careful when using speaker amps on headphones...
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-563#post-15016313



You can also use the ifi iesl to connect headphones to a speaker amp. It is designed for this as well as driving electrostats off speaker amps.


----------



## jlbrach

Joe Skubinski said:


> Be careful when using speaker amps on headphones...
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-563#post-15016313



i do not get using a speaker amp with the TC when there are so many headphone amps without all the hassles and risks that drive the TC so well....formula s/powerman as an example


----------



## Litlgi74 (Sep 9, 2019)

jlbrach said:


> i do not get using a speaker amp with the TC when there are so many headphone amps without all the hassles and risks that drive the TC so well....formula s/powerman as an example



I plan on using my speaker amp for speakers and for headphones... I can't really afford or justify spending Summit-Fi money on two separate setups.


----------



## jlbrach

that is a different discussion....i am speaking of people only using HP's


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## cj3209

Litlgi74 said:


> I plan on using my speaker amp for speakers and for headphones... I can't really afford or justify spending Summit-Fi money on two separate setups.


Too much hassle to keep switching back and forth but that's just me.  I have a hard time switching between my HPAs...lol...

I'm intrigued by the use of a speaker amp but in the end, it doesn't work for me as I do all my HP listening in my bedroom and I refuse to bring or buy a big heavy hot speaker amp into my bedroom for the sole purpose of listening to my headphones.

But, to each his/her own.

Back to the music...


----------



## CreditingKarma

Litlgi74 said:


> I plan on using my speaker amp for speakers and for headphones... I can't really afford or justify spending Summit-Fi money on two separate setups.




I am intrigued by the prospect of using a speaker amp. I am afraid my hegel would be too much power at 250w into 8ohms. I do have an arcam a38 that might do the trick if I set it up in a second room with the ls50 again. It has two sets of speaker taps that are switchable. 

Are you going to use a box lime the iesl or the one that hifiman makes? I am also pretty happy with the m.p monoprice Cavalli liquid platinum right now too.


----------



## Litlgi74

CreditingKarma said:


> I am intrigued by the prospect of using a speaker amp. I am afraid my hegel would be too much power at 250w into 8ohms. I do have an arcam a38 that might do the trick if I set it up in a second room with the ls50 again. It has two sets of speaker taps that are switchable.
> 
> Are you going to use a box lime the iesl or the one that hifiman makes? I am also pretty happy with the m.p monoprice Cavalli liquid platinum right now too.


For now I am planning on using a XLR to speaker tap adapter cable while I try out different amps... Specifically Simaudio Moon 600i...

But I will probably end up replacing the speaker tap adapter with something like this... https://www.olasonic.jp/product/?id=1526454029-697392


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## NZtechfreak (Sep 10, 2019)

Take all due care of course, but for planar headphones in this category of sensitivity they're fine. I've hooked my HE-6 up to many, even 200W/channel monoblocks, no issues, no need for adapter boxes of any kind. There is far less reason to now with a lot more powerful headphone amps on the market than several years ago, but for a number of people for a variety of reasons they are still a consideration.


----------



## Ayodej

NZtechfreak said:


> Take all due care of course, but for planar headphones in this category of sensitivity they're fine. I've hooked my HE-6 up to many, even 200W/channel monoblocks, no issues, no need for adapter boxes of any kind. There is far less reason to now with a lot more powerful headphone amps on the market than several years ago, but for a number of people for a variety of reasons they are still a consideration.


So would you say that an amp with these specifications would be suitable for the 47 ohm TC? how much power exactly would the cans be getting? and how much power is too much power for the TC? Sorry I'm very novice to the electricity side of things but I'm trying to learn.

Power Output: 120 wpc at 8 Ohms, 200 wpc at 4 Ohms
Frequency Response: +/-0.25dB from 10 Hz to 50 kHz
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: -103 dB, reference level: full power output
Total Harmonic Distortion (THD): <0.025% at 1 kHz, at 100 W, 8 Ohms
Gain 30 dB
Input Impedance: 50 kOhms
Damping Factor: 200, reference 8 Ohms nominal
Power Consumption: 350 Watts idle, 1000 Watts maximum


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## NZtechfreak (Sep 11, 2019)

It's not so much the resistance of the Abyss as its sensitivity -  88 dB/mW (more sensitive than the HE-6 at 83.5 dB/mW, but still amongst the least sensitive production headphones). 120w/channel into 8ohm will significantly more power than is needed - the main thing will be volume control, as you will not have much play on the volume between silent and way too loud, so you'll want a good volume control with enough fine gradations to dial it in. With my HE-6 when I've connected to speaker amps I usually connect the speaker taps adapter with amp off, zero volume on amp, power on, double check volume is at zero, plug in headphones, play music and cautiously increase volume until at correct listening volumes (to disconnect zero volume, unplug headphones). I'd feel perfectly happy doing the same with the Abyss (I don't need to though, I've heard it on the CMA800R monoblocks that I currently use for my HE-6 and I won't be chasing other amplification for a very long time), but it's certainly a bit nerve racking at first until you're accustomed to it and not actively anxious about destroying your expensive headphones. If you're not careful enough then there is a real risk of damaging the drivers, and they would not be eligible for repair under warranty (and this is entirely reasonable to me, this is most definitely not a use the manufacturer intended). End of the day it's your headphones, your money, your risk. If it all goes wrong there is nobody to cry to, only you can decide if you want to try it (EDIT: Sorry if that comes across as harsh, I just want be clear about the risks rather than sugar coating anything or offering glib reassurances). 

You may wish to check HE-6 and speaker amps for headphones posts to learn more.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

One formula for power is voltage squared divided by resistance, P=V(2)/R. An amplifier is basically a voltage source that drives current into a resistance, or load, in this case speakers or a headphone. So power delivered is the inverse of any change in R. If resistance R goes up 2 times, power goes down 2 times.

For the AB1266 let's use 6 as the multiple (47/8= ~6). So an amp rated for 120 watts into 8 ohms is capable of 120/6= 20 watts into the AB1266. If you're going to play with speaker amps it would be sensible to stay under 60 watts into 8 ohms (or 10 watts into the AB1266) to help stay out of trouble, and as you go up beyond this the caution light turns to red...


----------



## Ayodej

Absolutely not harsh, its just the truth. & also very informative thank you. I've read some others having success with their speaker amps on the abyss, namely the Moon 600i for example which has a similar power rating to the one I've listed with 125 W into 8 ohm. Would this mean that I should be fairly safe with mine? From what I've gathered, I suppose it's about making sure the numbers are at least somewhat within limits, and also being very diligent with the process of connecting of the headphones and starting up the amp with careful volume control... problem is the amp (wells audio Innamorata) does not have a volume pot. It's preamp will be my Dave, so I'm hoping that process will remain the same? 

Also a lot of the tapping adaptors I see around are terminated in a balanced xlr, is there a reason for that or can a 1/4 " TRS be used as well? I usually prefer to use my single ended lazuli cable with my abyss


----------



## NZtechfreak

I also came to ~20W in my calculations, so good to know my math is still OK.

Regards power - the more power, the more the risk. A lot of people have connected to amps with the same kind of output power you're talking. I have used my HE-6 on 200W per channel Merak monoblocks without incident (with Auralics pre-amp in front for volume control), of all the speaker amp setups I tried it was the most powerful... and my least favourite pairing, as it happened. Not familiar with the pre-amp on the Dave, so I cannot help you there I'm afraid.

Anyways, I think you're probably better served to head here for research and to seek specific advice - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/speaker-amps-for-headphones.649107/


----------



## kelvinwsy

I use my Abyss ab1266 exclusively with Spkr amps
Go to Robinette Hp calc sheet at 
https://robrobinette.com/HeadphoneResistorNetworkCalculator.htm
U can wire a Vishay 10ohm 25 watt resistor ( my Hp amps are 15 & 8 tube and 7 watt SS) across the speaker taps. Then connect your 4 wire 4pin XLR connector to the same spkr taps. You are hood to go BUT u need volume control on your DAC or use a preamp before the Spkr amps 
See my photos below. What Joe is saying is correct as u dont need 125watt/6 = 20watts!
8watts from a good Tube amp or SS amp is sufficient!
The twin KSA 5 are clones from Aliexpress which I had my local tech upgrade the power tranny and all Capacitors I use them as monoblocs with Left and Right channel Volume controls..
On my Audiopax Stereo 15 KT88 tube amps this 10watt Lpad works well ! My He560 is hooked up to this setup!
On my Audionotes Quest Silver Monoblocs the 10watt parallel Lpad did not work Amp goes silent shutdown . So I switch back to the Hifiman Resistor box.. Also helps to reduce gain am hiss on my Senn HD800 and Verum 1
My case was a switch fr Spks to HPs.. How to use my hi-end tube amps w/o spending another fortune on a Hi end HP amp. I just bought the abyss ab1266 phi cc and i just added the modded KSA5 clones to mt HP setups..
Hope the above helps


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## Litlgi74 (Sep 12, 2019)

I'm going to be jumping on the speaker amp bandwagon very soon... I demo'd a Moon 600i yesterday. It was the best my 1266s have ever sounded.

The Moon 600i makes using a speaker amp for headphones very doable and with "minimal" risk. The M-eVOL2 employs two Multiplying Digital-to-Analog Converters (MDACs), one per channel, to enable precise volume adjustments in increments of 0.1dB, for a total of 530 individual steps. Between 0 and 30dB, volume adjustments are made in 1dB increments. From 30 to 80dB (full power), adjustments are made in increments of 0.1dB. You can also set and lock a volume position to help eliminate accidental overload to your headphones.

During my demo I had the volume knob upwards of 40dB... My headphones exhibited none of my fears. No pops, cracks, sizzles or smoke. I am sold on this incredible amplifier.

I will own the incredible 600i by the end if the month.

I am beyond excited.


----------



## Litlgi74

kelvinwsy said:


> I use my Abyss ab1266 exclusively with Spkr amps
> Go to Robinette Hp calc sheet at
> https://robrobinette.com/HeadphoneResistorNetworkCalculator.htm
> U can wire a Vishay 10ohm 25 watt resistor ( my Hp amps are 15 & 8 tube and 7 watt SS) across the speaker taps. Then connect your 4 wire 4pin XLR connector to the same spkr taps. You are hood to go BUT u need volume control on your DAC or use a preamp before the Spkr amps
> ...


Thanks for your description... Did you forget to attach the photos?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Ayodej said:


> Also a lot of the tapping adaptors I see around are terminated in a balanced xlr, is there a reason for that or can a 1/4 " TRS be used as well? I usually prefer to use my single ended lazuli cable with my abyss



Reason being some amps, typically higher power, have floating grounds. The negative terminals are not ground but rather amplified, so if you happen to short the amp's L and R negative terminals together as would be the case with a single ended connection, boom!


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## kelvinwsy

Always 4pin xlr! I hv been running the Robinette Lpad for 3-4 years niwSo far so good


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## kelvinwsy

The KSA5 hv very good  speaker protection for DC and shorts! The Audiopax also


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## kelvinwsy

Audiopax Stereo 88 15watt p channel KT88 and a 45 Tube 6n1p preamp with 5ar4 tube rectified PSU - i use a 10 watt Lpad and hook up my Hifiman He560 directly to the KT88 amp for my Clearaudio T/T Avantgarde Magnum setup


----------



## kelvinwsy

I always use my He560 as a test Hp whenever I make changes to my PC Hqplayer Main System which i use my Abyss hp on. Any issues the He560 will tell at no risk to the ab1266.. Once music is flowing Volume off Switch to Abyss 1266!


----------



## Ayodej

Joe Skubinski said:


> Reason being some amps, typically higher power, have floating grounds. The negative terminals are not ground but rather amplified, so if you happen to short the amp's L and R negative terminals together as would be the case with a single ended connection, boom!


Thanks for the reply Joe! So would simply asking the manufacturer over at Wells audio if the Innamorata’s L & R negative terminals are individually grounded or not determine if I can use a TRS termination (Yes being for grounded, & No for amplified)?



kelvinwsy said:


> I always use my He560 as a test Hp whenever I make changes to my PC Hqplayer Main System which i use my Abyss hp on. Any issues the He560 will tell at no risk to the ab1266.. Once music is flowing Volume off Switch to Abyss 1266!


Yes I was also thinking of using my old spare headphones Sennheiser HD598 as a tester before the TC as the impedance is fairly close to it at 50 ohm, but I’m not sure if there are any design limitations of those headphones that could be detrimental to the amp, since they are not necessarily built to the same level as hifi cans? I.e dynamic vs planar drivers.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

@Ayodej You would be speaking to Jeff, let him know what you are planning to do and see what he says.


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## astrostar59

Litlgi74 said:


> I'm going to be jumping on the speaker amp bandwagon very soon... I demo'd a Moon 600i yesterday. It was the best my 1266s have ever sounded.
> 
> The Moon 600i makes using a speaker amp for headphones very doable and with "minimal" risk. The M-eVOL2 employs two Multiplying Digital-to-Analog Converters (MDACs), one per channel, to enable precise volume adjustments in increments of 0.1dB, for a total of 530 individual steps. Between 0 and 30dB, volume adjustments are made in 1dB increments. From 30 to 80dB (full power), adjustments are made in increments of 0.1dB. You can also set and lock a volume position to help eliminate accidental overload to your headphones.
> 
> ...



Nice! I get your beyond excited, it is how the Abyss was from day one for me, and now it is at orgasmic level....

On connections, I would say use Male XLR and at the other end Banana plugs, so grounds stay separate. I simply adapted a Norne Audio 4 pin cable extension I had already. Add some shrink wrap at the banana plug ends for strain relief, and then run the cable under the amp and have the 4 pin near the front for hook up.

The 600i has a nice look, and a big rd display for volume, source etc. The remote is also very nice. 

On power, remember a 8W single 300B tube amp at 8 ohms could end up <2W into 50 ohms, so that may explain how some amps struggle on the Abyss.


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## simorag (Sep 12, 2019)

Here’s another update of my AB-1266 amplifier quest saga ... sorry for bothering you guys 

After listening the Air Tight ATM-300R in August, and liking it quite a bit, I spotted a ‘regular’ – i.e. not Reference – 2nd hand ATM-300 on a shop relatively close to where I live. Being the 300R way out of my budget at 15-18kEuro depending on the 300B tube pair, I was curious to check its predecessor out.

The unit I tried had Cetron 300B upgraded tubes, by the way.

To my disappointment, the ATM-300 I tried had serious background noise issues with the Abyss, which was an immediate show stopper. Also, the control over the bass was way worse than the 300R, to the point that the lowest frequencies were borderline bloated.

Next on my audition list was an Octave V80 SE, a beast of a push-pull KT150 class AB tube integrated (80W/8Ohm) beautifully crafted in Germany, listed about 11k but possibly within my reach as an ex-demo deal.





The V80SE was totally devoid of hiss / hum nasties, and I could play with a decent amount of volume adjustment range, therefore fine tuning the loudness to my liking without being nervous about the slightest rotation of its (big and satisfying) knob.

Listening to the V80 SE (on speaker taps, as its headphone out is not up to the task with the Abyss) was a striking experience.

In a nutshell, it was like listening to the AB-1266 on steroids.

The presentation was _bold_, vast, with plenty of extension at both extremes of the spectrum. The amp had an iron grip over the Abyss drivers and the bass was thunderous, cavernous yet very fast and fully controlled. To be honest, on some recordings, the pairing of the generous bass response of both Abyss and amplifier sounded a bit overdone to me.

Soundstage was huge in all three dimensions yet very clean – i.e. not artificially diffuse – with very good imaging and instrument separation.

Mids and treble were on the neutral side, no hint of tubey warmth / euphonics that I could tell, perhaps only a bit of (welcome) midrange forwardness. In comparison, with the Riviera AIC-10 and the Thrax Enyo I tried in the recent past the mids sounded thicker, creamier, probably more colored, but more enjoyable to my ears and emotionally engaging.

Transparency, detail retrieval, transient response were the best I have heard out of any amp I have tried so far (headphones or speaker), on par with directly driving the HP out of the DAVE. Visceral impact was also top notch.

In summary, the Octave expanded on all the strengths of the AB-1266, while reinforcing their ‘reference’ signature, with no intention of being pleasing, forgiving or catchy in any way.

Personally, I would have liked some more harmonics richness and color saturation, but you cannot have it all, right?

Or perhaps ... yes?



Litlgi74 said:


> I demo'd a Moon 600i yesterday. It was the best my 1266s have ever sounded.





astrostar59 said:


> Nice! I get your beyond excited, it is how the Abyss was from day one for me, and now it is at orgasmic level....



I wish I could get to hear a Moon 600i at this point!


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## Litlgi74

simorag said:


> I wish I could get to hear a Moon 600i at this point!


What's stopping you? No dealers?


----------



## Zhanming057

@simorag  I have listened to the Phi on the ATM300 with stock tubes, no noise issues at all and the bass wasn't much worse than Stefan's 300R. It's possible that the one you listened to had some issues (or had a bad set of tubes). 

The V80SE is also great although at 11,000 euros the price is higher than US prices - not sure if it's just European pricing though. Have you tried any 845 amps with the Abyss?


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## simorag

Litlgi74 said:


> What's stopping you? No dealers?



I contacted the Simaudio dealers within 200km distance from where I live a couple of weeks ago, and none of the had a 600i available on display / demo 



Zhanming057 said:


> @simorag I have listened to the Phi on the ATM300 with stock tubes, no noise issues at all and the bass wasn't much worse than Stefan's 300R. It's possible that the one you listened to had some issues (or had a bad set of tubes).



Yes, definitely possible, I was surprised as well. Not something related to the tubes though, as we tried two different sets, the original Electro Harmonix and the Cetron. In both cases the bias was OK, but the hum was audible. Perhaps something related to the output transformers? The unit was 8 years old, so ...




Zhanming057 said:


> @simorag The V80SE is also great although at 11,000 euros the price is higher than US prices - not sure if it's just European pricing though.



Yep, official Italian pricelist is 10900Euro, retail can go down to 15% on a brand new V80SE.



Zhanming057 said:


> @simorag Have you tried any 845 amps with the Abyss?



Not yet, I should be able to try a VIVA Solistino and a Line Magnetic LM-845 soon.​


----------



## Litlgi74

simorag said:


> I contacted the Simaudio dealers within 200km distance from where I live a couple of weeks ago, and none of the had a 600i available on display / demo


Well, if you can... Please hold out on a purchase until you can hear a 600i.


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## astrostar59

Litlgi74 said:


> Well, if you can... Please hold out on a purchase until you can hear a 600i.


Agree. But maybe simorag needs a different signature, a bit more coloured? The 600i is super smooth, slightly warm and fast / wide. 

IMO a good SET is the way to go for top sound quality if you want to go the tube route. You don't need mega watts here, so a parallel 300B at 18W into 8 ohms, or a big bottle SET with 211 or 845 tubes and 20-25W.

Push Pull amps are great for big multiway speakers with lowish efficiency. i.e. you have to get more power from your tubes, but there are trade off IMO. Also PP amps need closely match pairs or quads. I would keep looking for a top SET that has the control and is quiet as well. SETs are simpler circuits, a purer signal path and thus have a more realistic tonality and the famous micro detail and immediacy / realism to the music.


----------



## cj3209

LOL...this is turning into '_How to use a Speaker Amp_' forum...

Perhaps a new Forum...?


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## astrostar59

cj3209 said:


> LOL...this is turning into '_How to use a Speaker Amp_' forum...
> 
> Perhaps a new Forum...?



Only this month, next month it will calm down... LOL. 
TBH a good amp is a good amp, and I am saying there are some great HP amps around, the Formula S and Powerman for example.
But there are many that struggle with the Susvara and Abyss if you want the absolute top level performance. On Focal Utopia or other high efficient cans, maybe not?


----------



## Ciggavelli

So my WA33 headphone amp came today.  Holy f**king s**t.  The TCs never sounded so good.  The pairing is crazy


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## Litlgi74

Ciggavelli said:


> So my WA33 headphone amp came today.  Holy f**king s**t.  The TCs never sounded so good.  The pairing is crazy


Pictures?


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## Zhanming057

@simorag My guess is that something broke in the power supply if it's humming in both channels. I would give Airtight another chance - they have EL84 amps priced below the ATM300R, and maybe you'll run into another ATM300 that won't have a noise problem. I was extremely impressed by the old ATM300 when I demo'd it back in 2017 on the newly release 1266 Phi.

The LM-845 is also a great choice - you can very rarely go wrong with a 845/Abyss pairing. KT150 is more often thought of as a big speaker tube and there's some truth to that, I find that 845 is a good middle ground between the softer and gentler 300b and the slightly unrefined aggression of KT88/150.


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## astrostar59

Good advice there. I would say (sorry industry affiliate) that the Genus SET with 25W from big bottle 813 power tubes is the best headphone amp I have heard to date, and indeed one of the very best speaker amps as well, competing with many tube amps 3 times the price. Granted 15K euros for a HP amp is quite insane, but the Wells Audio is 15K, and the Primavera more expensive. The Viva Solista is circa 13K. But the Genus runs less hot, and has a true headphone output of the OPT as well as speaker taps at 4 or 8 ohms. It also weighs 73 kilos.

I would stay away from PP amps if you want purity of tone and realism. A well designed SET can do magical things not matched by any other type of amplifier. Those that have experienced it will know....


----------



## Ciggavelli

Litlgi74 said:


> Pictures?



Pardon the mess in the back (I'm moving things around).  But, here's a video of my setup currently


----------



## Ciggavelli

I've completely changed my mind on the TCs bass.  It turns out the TCs were under powered going through my TT2/M-Scaler.  The bass is substantially greater through the WA33.  I thought you all were crazy trying to run the TCs off speaker amps, but now I see why you all were doing that.  The TCs love power.

They're even beating my th900mk2 now, in terms of bass :wow:


----------



## EndGameSearch

Ciggavelli said:


> I've completely changed my mind on the TCs bass.  It turns out the TCs were under powered going through my TT2/M-Scaler.  The bass is substantially greater through the WA33.  I thought you all were crazy trying to run the TCs off speaker amps, but now I see why you all were doing that.  The TCs love power.
> 
> They're even beating my th900mk2 now, in terms of bass :wow:


Try them off TT2’s XLR. Nice step up.


----------



## JLoud

How does the WA33 compare to the WA5le? The 5 is my current tube amp. Just wondering about comparisons tone wise as well as dynamics. Anyone with experience on both would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## astrostar59

JLoud said:


> How does the WA33 compare to the WA5le? The 5 is my current tube amp. Just wondering about comparisons tone wise as well as dynamics. Anyone with experience on both would be greatly appreciated.



I was not so enamoured with the WA33 + Abyss combo. It was good, but had some blurring in the treble and upper mids IMO. I can see the logic in a balanced design if the source is TRUE balanced. Many sources however are not. My preference is on single ended as I run tube DACs that are SE. A source that is not true balanced would go through a phase splitter in the WA33, so seems no point. When I heard the WA33 with the Abyss, it was at Can-Jam London, and the source was a portable DAC, so possibly not balanced and this could have held it back? I also question the logic with tube costs and getting perfectly matched quads unless you have a true balanced source.

IMO a simpler purer SE circuit with less complexity should in theory ay dividends, but it depends as always on the design integrity on either topologies.


----------



## Articnoise

astrostar59 said:


> I was not so enamoured with the WA33 + Abyss combo. It was good, but had some blurring in the treble and upper mids IMO. I can see the logic in a balanced design if the source is TRUE balanced. Many sources however are not. My preference is on single ended as I run tube DACs that are SE. A source that is not true balanced would go through a phase splitter in the WA33, so seems no point. When I heard the WA33 with the Abyss, it was at Can-Jam London, and the source was a portable DAC, so possibly not balanced and this could have held it back? I also question the logic with tube costs and getting perfectly matched quads unless you have a true balanced source.
> 
> IMO a simpler purer SE circuit with less complexity should in theory ay dividends, but it depends as always on the design integrity on either topologies.



Okay - was the balanced, SE or whatever a factor with WA33 compare to the WA5le in you experience? I get it, I really do, your 72 kg Genus SET is great but wavering things like blurring in the treble and upper mids after hearing it solely from a no-name portable DAC doesn’t help anyone IMO.

Why not let Ciggavelli be happy and rest on the marketing on your Aries Cerat for a day or two?


----------



## JLoud

I am running balanced out of a Schiit Yggdrasil. Pretty happy with my Wa5 and my LCD4. Have been using my TC’s with a HeadAmp gsx mk2. Depending on music and mood I mix and match the aforementioned headphones and amps. Curious if the WA33 could replace both.


----------



## astrostar59 (Sep 14, 2019)

I am sorry, I didn't mean to offend at all. I never mentioned Aries Cerat in that post, in fact I own 3 R2R DACs all single ended and only one is Aries Cerat.

My point stands IMO, we seem obsessed with balanced topologies, it is the same in the 2 channel forums. I heard the WA33 and Abyss on the Woo stand, so make no apology for the DAC they used. It was best sound in that show, but there was only one other stand I heard with the Abyss and that was the dCS Bartok, which was clearly behind the WA33. I heard my own 3 test tracks off the streaming DAC they had on the Woo stand.

On marketing, I have not directly asked anyone to come to my place to demo anything, buy anything. It is a tiny market in headphones for 10K+ amplifiers, so I don't bother. In fact, I have banged on about the very nice Moon 600i for the last 6 weeks, and I am NOT a Moon dealer.


----------



## EndGameSearch

JLoud said:


> I am running balanced out of a Schiit Yggdrasil. Pretty happy with my Wa5 and my LCD4. Have been using my TC’s with a HeadAmp gsx mk2. Depending on music and mood I mix and match the aforementioned headphones and amps. Curious if the WA33 could replace both.


I owned and loved the WA5 LE w/ vintage Western Electric 300b’s fed by Dave.  It was an exceptional amp and I regret selling it.  I came close to buying the wa33 and would still love to own one, but suspect it would ultimately not fit my preferences.  With the right tubes the wa5 LE gives you that wonderful 3D holographic soundstage you can only get from tubes while maintaining incredible levels of detail, transparency and clarity.  I primarily listen to classical so that was a perfect fit for me.  My understanding regarding the wa33 is that you get more “tubey” goodness that may be better suited for other genres.  

Question.......  *Has anyone come across a frequency response graph for the TC?*  I absolutely love mine and feel Abyss corrected the areas where I felt CC fell short.  That said, I’d still like to tweak the signature a bit with DSP and would like to compare what I’m hearing to an actual graph.  However, I image this is a very hard HP to measure consistently so won’t hold my breath.


----------



## Ciggavelli

JLoud said:


> I am running balanced out of a Schiit Yggdrasil. Pretty happy with my Wa5 and my LCD4. Have been using my TC’s with a HeadAmp gsx mk2. Depending on music and mood I mix and match the aforementioned headphones and amps. Curious if the WA33 could replace both.


I’m running balanced out of my TT2 and everything sounds amazing to me. I think I have some rca cables somewhere, so I can try everything out with unbalanced as well, and see what happens.

Regarding the WA5, I’ve not heard it. My previous tube amp was an LTA MZ2. The WA77 has that meaty sound, with more impact than the MZ2. I feel like it does everything the MZ2 does, but a bit better.

I think there is a bit of fuzziness like the other poster was saying, but it’s a trade off I don’t mind. I also feel that I can remedy that with better cables or a tube dampener.  We’ll see how I feel in a couple of weeks, when I’m sure I’ll have bought upgraded tubes and my new XLRs come in.

But, I’m very happy with the WA33. Well worth the money for me. And since I’m using an M-Scaler and TT2 dac, I can go solid state when I want (best of both worlds type situation).

I’ll provide more comments on the TC/WA33 combo as I continue to listen


----------



## CreditingKarma

Has anyone tried the hifan he adapter with a speaker amp and the ab1266?


----------



## astrostar59

EndGameSearch said:


> Question.......  *Has anyone come across a frequency response graph for the TC?*  I absolutely love mine and feel Abyss corrected the areas where I felt CC fell short.  That said, I’d still like to tweak the signature a bit with DSP and would like to compare what I’m hearing to an actual graph.  However, I image this is a very hard HP to measure consistently so won’t hold my breath.



Good question, I have not seen one. HPs are notoriously difficult to measure, and the Abyss frame and it's multi adjustable fit can make the FR change a lot especially the bass response and level of bass, plus the soundstage. I panicked a few weeks back when I got the Moon 600i and hooked it up, as I thought - where's the bass gone. But it was the fit I had overlooked. A few minutes of fiddling and all was returned to it's superb level of sound quality and linear response.

The LCD4 and other cup type flush fit headphones create a more fixed FR which may be good, or bad. I am happy with the Abyss fit, once you get the 'personal fit' right for you, heaven awaits. I find a small opening / low contact at the bottom of the cups is good to my ears, and the general pressure overall from the frame and cups is a 'light touch'. So maybe the Abyss if fairly unique in this regard, it does give the owner flexibility for both fit, comfort and sonic performance.

Another positive for me has to be heat, having the cups in a light touch fit massively reduces heat build up and increases long term comfort. This is not always obvious to clients trying the Abyss at shows for 15 minutes. It is a thing to get used to once you realise the potential and payback in performance.

Back to the measured FR, I can hear an incredibly deep *sub bass* response to the Abyss, then a similar mid and upper bass to the LCD4. This sub bass is a bit like having a separate active sub woofer in the headset. I haven't experienced this in any other headphone yet. To pull that off, and have the speed and detail close / as good as electrostatics, planar smoothness and planar dynamics, all from a single driver... an amazing feat really.

I was also impressed with the RAAL headphone at Can-Jam, with it's world class soundstage. But was less convinced by it's mid-sub bass response, it obviously was bass light and a bit 'tipped up' in FR. It was going back towards my 009 system so was not something I would go down now.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Sep 15, 2019)

Not sure about how go about asking this question... so hopefully I able to communicate my concern.

When listening to music... At what point does it get distorted for you? Is it (at or past) when the volume is to loud for your ears to handle or does the music get distorted before you you reach a volume that is simply to loud?

Sometimes I want to listen at elevated volumes... But the music falls apart before I get there.

Ideas, opinions?


----------



## tholt

@Litlgi74 , still having distortion issues? So it's not just that one song you cited earlier? IME, I never hear distortion (unless it's in the recording). The Abyss are perhaps the cleanest headphone I've ever heard. Were I to push it to distortion, it would be insanely loud and I would be afraid I'd blow out the drivers when I got to that point. I guess I'd be surprised if anyone was regularly experiencing this either, given how incredible the Abyss performs.

Have you tried to troubleshoot your gear and/or connections?


----------



## Litlgi74 (Sep 15, 2019)

tholt said:


> @Litlgi74 , still having distortion issues? So it's not just that one song you cited earlier? IME, I never hear distortion (unless it's in the recording). The Abyss are perhaps the cleanest headphone I've ever heard. Were I to push it to distortion, it would be insanely loud and I would be afraid I'd blow out the drivers when I got to that point. I guess I'd be surprised if anyone was regularly experiencing this either, given how incredible the Abyss performs.
> 
> Have you tried to troubleshoot your gear and/or connections?


Yep... I've changed the cables... Tried the headphone out from the RME ADI-2 DAC, tried both SE and balanced outs from the Cayin iha-6... Same distortion.

The only other headphones I have are my son's Dekoni Blues... i don't really hear the distortion with them...but they are no where near as revealing as the 1266s.

I am not using conversions of any kind in Roon that would potentially alter or distort the sound.


----------



## simorag

Litlgi74 said:


> Not sure about how go about asking this question... so hopefully I able to communicate my concern.
> 
> When listening to music... At what point does it get distorted for you? Is it (at or past) when the volume is to loud for your ears to handle or does the music get distorted before you you reach a volume that is simply to loud?
> 
> ...



This is a very interesting question, I am curious to hear what people has to say as well!

In my case, when listening to headphones I have experienced mainly three types of situations:
a- artifacts obviously related to distortion, like clipping, ringing, blurring / smearing of notes etc.
b- feeling that the music becomes a confused wall of sound, and soundstage collapse.
c- tonality shifts, where by cranking up the volume the tonal balance of the HP changes, typically towards a brighter presentation.

Not sure if -b- and -c- go strictly under the definition of 'distortion', by the way.

With the AB-1266 specifically,  I occasionally face clipping with very quietly recorded music (e.g. classical) and high range recordings (20dB+) when directly driving them through the DAVE, and - _very_ rarely - even with the Formula S. This was at a high yet still bearable - for short stretches of time - volume.

This type of distortion was not there with more powerful amplifiers, not necessarily high end ones. For example, the Audio GD NOS 11 (about 8W at 47Ohm) was not exhibiting any clipping with the Abyss.

As for type -b- issue, this is the trickier one IMO. Here I found that the _quality_ of the amp matters as much or even more than its sheer power output (assuming at least 2W of available juice). Being able to keep composure, control, instrument separation, soundstage breadth at very high listening volume (90dB+) is not an easy feat. The Riviera AIC-10, and especially the Octave V80SE were very good at this, for example.

Type -c- (tonality change) has not been an issue with the Abyss for me. It was with the HD800S and Utopia, possibly because of sub-bass roll-off becoming more apparent to my ears at high SPL.

Overall, in my experience the AB-1266 are not the limiting factor as long as distortion is concerned, as they remain very clean and linear at volumes way above what I could bear, when properly driven.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I’ve found that ear pad placement greatly affects distortion with some songs. The further away the ear pads are from your ear, the more bass you get, but distortion creeps in. With metal, rock, pop I don’t really have distortion with the pads further away from my ears. With rap though, I do get distortion with the ear pads further away. The distortion goes away if you position the ear pads closer to your ear though


----------



## Litlgi74 (Sep 15, 2019)

simorag said:


> Overall, in my experience the AB-1266 are not the limiting factor as long as distortion is concerned, as they remain very clean and linear at volumes way above what I could bear, when properly driven.



I guess that is the problem I am having... I don't get close to unbearable volume before distortion takes over the music.

According to your description... I think I am experiencing type a. The music blurs and sounds ugly, and broken (if that makes sense). Not enjoyable at all. Almost as though the bass becomes the mid-range.

The Cayin iha-6 can produce 7 watts in balanced mode... But I can barely get the volume knob to the (12 o'clock) half way point.

If I put the RME in High Gain.. and use the SE output of if the unit's HP amp.. I get the same result.

I don't experience any noticable distortion at low volumes... But I can here distortion contaminate the music as the volume rises... Even before unbearable volumes.


----------



## simorag

Litlgi74 said:


> I guess that is the problem I am having... I don't get close to unbearable volume before distortion takes over the music.
> 
> According to your description... I think I am experiencing type a. The music blurs and sounds ugly, and broken (if that makes sense). Not enjoyable at all. Almost as though the bass becomes the mid-range.
> 
> ...



That is very odd.

Did you have the same experience when you demoed the Moon 600i?

With which type(s) of music is this behavior more apparent?


----------



## Zhanming057

Articnoise said:


> Okay - was the balanced, SE or whatever a factor with WA33 compare to the WA5le in you experience? I get it, I really do, your 72 kg Genus SET is great but wavering things like blurring in the treble and upper mids after hearing it solely from a no-name portable DAC doesn’t help anyone IMO.
> 
> Why not let Ciggavelli be happy and rest on the marketing on your Aries Cerat for a day or two?



The thing is, the WA33 is something that you will need to sort out on your own. The stock tubes are meh, they're sensitive to power and DAC pairings and all that.

Every time I've heard one in Woo's own Canjam showroom it sounded far worse than some of the better sorted setups from actual users. I'm guessing it's a combo of no power conditioning in the showroom and Woo's insistence on using a subpar Sony DAC/streamer instead of a real DAC. That applies to the WA5 as well - at a bare minimum, I recommend swapping out the stock 300b's and 274b's.


----------



## astrostar59

Litlgi74 said:


> I guess that is the problem I am having... I don't get close to unbearable volume before distortion takes over the music.
> 
> According to your description... I think I am experiencing type a. The music blurs and sounds ugly, and broken (if that makes sense). Not enjoyable at all. Almost as though the bass becomes the mid-range.
> 
> ...



This is odd. I experienced a bit of bass looseness if the pads are well away from the ear, i.e. driving into mid air if you like. But then the bass was way to high in level because of that to the rest of the FR. IMO if you get the pads slightly off your face at the bottom of the cups, but touching the top and sides of the cups, it is fine. To then get any bass distortion you need to play it beyond comfortable level i.e. hearing damage levels.

*So I think there could be 3 things going on. *
1. You have the pads too far off your face, possibly to augment a perceived lack of bass in the material you are listening to.
2. Your amp is lacking current or drive / control / damping factor into 50ohms and is struggling. It is not just gain / volume ability, it is current demand as well. 
3. You have applied some bass lift in EQ, which is a no no. Modern recordings are generally at 0db already,especially in the bass / high energy areas, so any bass lift will clip as it outputs your server.

If the FR is changing, going bass light or shifting the response up as you crank up the amp, that sound like the amp is struggling to me.

The Abyss is a fiddly HP to get right, and we all like more of the nice bass drive if possible (generally). Maybe we want more than is possible? A balanced FR is key, not go for the bass boost option. Anyway, my thoughts. I do think the Abyss can get flabby and loose in the bass from a lesser amp, both power reserve and quality. Not unlike a top speaker would really?


----------



## Litlgi74

simorag said:


> That is very odd.
> 
> Did you have the same experience when you demoed the Moon 600i?
> 
> With which type(s) of music is this behavior more apparent?


I didn't experience it with 600i because I was afraid to turn up the volume.

I'd say it happens with all types of music.

I have the pads at 1 and 11. They gently touch my head behind my ear.. just above the base of my skull. I have a small opening/gap of the pads at about the tragus of the ear.

 

Like this. Lol


----------



## Joe Skubinski

@Litlgi74 Suggest trying to lower the output of the DAC into the amp. It's easy to overload the amp input stage (not related to output power) if you're running the DAC full out, all depends on the DAC, and amp. Also note the electronics you're running are ok, but with the 1266 this system will get a bit hard sounding when you push it, have a multiplicative effect with that amp/ DAC combo as the volume/gain increases. In other words, you could use smoother sounding gear, or tubes. 


On fit, that's a big gap you have. My guess is you've chosen this fit to add more of a bass bump to compensate for the system hardness. At that distance from the ear pads it also means you will turn the volume up higher, a bit of a viscous circle.

On the WA-33, it's one of our favorite headphone amps, so much so we worked with Woo to develop a JPS Labs Edition wired with JPS Labs conductors internally and with KR Audio 2A3HP and 274BHP tubes (which we worked with KR to develop for headphone amps). We have this amp in black, driven with the XIAUDIO SagraDAC, maxed out with JPS Labs Aluminata cables. Sounds fantastic, plenty of bass slam when called for, and the reserve power to back it.


----------



## Litlgi74

astrostar59 said:


> So I think there could be 3 things going on.





astrostar59 said:


> 1. You have the pads too far off your face, possibly to augment a perceived lack of bass in the material you are listening to.


Probably... I'm going to play around with the fit tonight.


astrostar59 said:


> 2. Your amp is lacking current or drive / control / damping factor into 50ohms and is struggling. It is not just gain / volume ability, it is current demand as well.


Probably... I'll just have to deal with it until the Moon 600i gets here! 


astrostar59 said:


> 3. You have applied some bass lift in EQ, which is a no no. Modern recordings are generally at 0db already, especially in the bass / high energy areas, so any bass lift will clip as it outputs your server.


Nope... nothing added in either Roon or the DAC.


----------



## tholt

@Litlgi74 agreed with Joe -- that is a large gap you have between pad and head. Do you have the headband rotated in the middle so that it's toed out? I'd definitely experiment with adjusting pads and headband so that you close the gap to see what happens. I once had adjusted the pads to have a large gap at the bottom of my ear,  which adds more bass. On bass-heavy tracks it could distort and chuff. When I adjusted the pads to close the gap somewhat, it mitigated the issue.

Since distortion is coming from both L/R presumably, and you've tried with different gear, I'm guessing it may be pad/headband adjustment or output of DAC as Joe suggested.

I also ran the Cayin iha-6 for a time (balanced in and out). Never experienced any distortion that I could attribute to the amp.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Sep 15, 2019)

Joe Skubinski said:


> @Litlgi74 Suggest trying to lower the output of the DAC into the amp. It's easy to overload the amp input stage (not related to output power) if you're running the DAC full out, all depends on the DAC, and amp. Also note the electronics you're running are ok, but with the 1266 this system will get a bit hard sounding when you push it, have a multiplicative effect with that amp/ DAC combo as the volume/gain increases. In other words, you could use smoother sounding gear, or tubes.


Thanks for your response Joe... It's nice to have the inventer of the product chime in to help solve your problems.

I have tried multiple levels of output on the DAC... they all seem to lead to the same problem... and only at higher volumes.

As far as the amp... It will be replaced with the Moon 600i very shortly.

Is there a way to know when you are at or approaching max output of the 1266s? Measurement? Smoke? lol.



Joe Skubinski said:


> On fit, that's a big gap you have. My guess is you've chosen this fit to add more of a bass bump to compensate for the system hardness. At that distance from the ear pads it also means you will turn the volume up higher, a bit of a viscous circle.


I have the pads at that distance to add more quantity of bass similar to that of my TH900s. I may just have to add a subwoofer to my headphone rig!


----------



## Litlgi74

tholt said:


> @Litlgi74 agreed with Joe -- that is a large gap you have between pad and head. Do you have the headband rotated in the middle so that it's toed out? I'd definitely experiment with adjusting pads and headband so that you close the gap to see what happens. I once had adjusted the pads to have a large gap at the bottom of my ear,  which adds more bass. On bass-heavy tracks it could distort and chuff. When I adjusted the pads to close the gap somewhat, it mitigated the issue.
> 
> Since distortion is coming from both L/R presumably, and you've tried with different gear, I'm guessing it may be pad/headband adjustment or output of DAC as Joe suggested.
> 
> I also ran the Cayin iha-6 for a time (balanced in and out). Never experienced any distortion that I could attribute to the amp.



Thanks for the suggestions... I am going to play with the fit again tonight... maybe I am just expecting/hoping/adjusting for a TH900 level that is unattainable wit the 1266s



tholt said:


> On bass-heavy tracks it could distort and chuff.


I do hear the chuff you are speaking about... especially if I take the headphones off while the music is playing. It is most audible from outside of the driver... opposite of the ear cups.

Why does it make that chuffing sound @Joe Skubinski ?


----------



## FLTWS (Sep 15, 2019)

Interesting, I think I've experienced a chuffing-like sound sometimes associated with ported loudspeakers when over driven. Could your large gaps in the ear pads with the way you have them set be acting like a port? Have you tried setting the pads up so they provide equal pressure all the way around the contact area between the pad and your head to hear what happens to the sound?


----------



## Litlgi74

FLTWS said:


> Interesting, I think I've experienced a chuffing-like sound sometimes associated with ported loudspeakers when over driven. Could your large gaps in the ear pads with the way you have them set be acting like a port? Have you tried setting the pads up so they provide equal pressure all the way around the contact area between the pad and your head to hear what happens to the sound?


I'd say the gap is most definitely acting like a port.



> Have you tried setting the pads up so they provide equal pressure all the way around the contact area between the pad and your head


The bass goes bye-bye.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The larger the gap to your head the less the drivers are damped, to a point where they move too freely, basically out of control and distorted sounding with very low freq bass. They require the proximity to the side of your head to dampen them at higher volume with relatively larger bass excursions of the driver (think about the acoustic wave coming off the driver bouncing off your head pressurizing the driver, acts like a resistance or bounce to motion). Amplifiers with very low output Z also help with driver damping as the amp better controls instantaneous driver motion.


----------



## buke9 (Sep 15, 2019)

Litlgi74 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions... I am going to play with the fit again tonight... maybe I am just expecting/hoping/adjusting for a TH900 level that is unattainable wit the 1266s
> 
> 
> I do hear the chuff you are speaking about... especially if I take the headphones off while the music is playing. It is most audible from outside of the driver... opposite of the ear cups.
> ...


You are not going to get the fit the way you want. They just fit how they do. They are meant to just touch your ears and not make a seal. They are very different than most headphones as they don’t need a seal and once you realize that then you can listen to them . Pads do have a purpose but it is not for a seal . They are not the TH900’s and will not preform the same they are the Abyss.


----------



## astrostar59

I find a soft fit all round, with a slight gap below my ears works best. i.e. enough of a port to allow good sub bass but not let it get out of control. I find if I increase the gap further, it drowns out the mids and treble anyway, and of course leads to some distortion on louder bass heavy music.

It is an interesting idea to free up the drivers on the Abyss design, to get out of the tiny soundstage effect of closed cups as on most headphone designs. It then requires some fiddling to your head / fit to get the required semi seal / port effect. Once you get it right, the Abyss leave other HPs behind IMO. In other words, well worth the hassle / patience to get it right for your head shape.


----------



## fire2368

The rubber connecting my headband to the headphone has fully stretched out, anyone know where I could get replacements without having to buy a new headband? It's just bits of rubber really. I should've probably asked Joe when I ordered some ear pads off the site.


----------



## astrostar59

Think it is a replacement from Joe. I can't see how you can replace them without unstitching the band? I think he also does different lengths?


----------



## FLTWS

You could try cutting the o- rings and tie them tighter as a short term solution (although don't put the knots where they would end up in the securing points notch. Or, buy the right sized o-ring and fabricate new ones yourself. Somewhere back in this thread I remember at least one poster who fabricated his own o-ring replacements and posted some pictures. You could also tie off the o-ring(s) themselves to shorten the length. A wrap of some sort would have the same effect.


----------



## MacedonianHero

In case anyone is interested, my Phi TC review is now live:

https://www.headphone.guru/the-newl...dphones-one-of-the-very-best-just-got-better/

tldnr: I love them!!!! Simply one of the very best headphones I've ever had on my head!!! Congratulations to Joe and Abyss for releasing such an amazing pair of headphones!


----------



## astrostar59

Nice review my friend. And I agree with all of it, can't ay that very often LOL.




 
Out of my Moon 600i, oh my - the soundstage, it is immense.... Abyss like in fact. And along with sub like bass notes, you can hear the tiny treble details drifting around the space, like raindrops is a huge cavern.


----------



## MacedonianHero

astrostar59 said:


> Nice review my friend. And I agree with all of it, can't ay that very often LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> Out of my Moon 600i, oh my - the soundstage, it is immense.... Abyss like in fact. And along with sub like bass notes, you can hear the tiny treble details drifting around the space, like raindrops is a huge cavern.



Thanks man...I love these headphones!


----------



## jlbrach

no question truly outstanding HP's....I have owned pretty much everything other than Stax and the TC are IMHO the best there is


----------



## Roasty

MacedonianHero said:


> In case anyone is interested, my Phi TC review is now live:
> 
> https://www.headphone.guru/the-newl...dphones-one-of-the-very-best-just-got-better/
> 
> tldnr: I love them!!!! Simply one of the very best headphones I've ever had on my head!!! Congratulations to Joe and Abyss for releasing such an amazing pair of headphones!



I have to stop reading your website man. I end up always wanting more stuff after reading your reviews.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jlbrach said:


> no question truly outstanding HP's....I have owned pretty much everything other than Stax and the TC are IMHO the best there is



I have owned both the SR-007 and SR-009 and when properly driven, I'd gladly take the Phi TC.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Roasty said:


> I have to stop reading your website man. I end up always wanting more stuff after reading your reviews.



Lol, that is a hazard of this hobby, that's for sure.


----------



## CreditingKarma

I have had my new AB-1266 PHI TC for about a month. I have noticed that from time to time when listening to solo cello and acoustic guitar that the driver will make a crinkling or buzzing sound but only when certain frequencies are played. Is it just that the driver is so thing that this could happen?


----------



## matthewhypolite

CreditingKarma said:


> I have had my new AB-1266 PHI TC for about a month. I have noticed that from time to time when listening to solo cello and acoustic guitar that the driver will make a crinkling or buzzing sound but only when certain frequencies are played. Is it just that the driver is so thing that this could happen?


I'd organzie to send it back and have jps take a look at it. 

I had the same issue on an older abyss headphone, they found the drive diaphragm to be a bit loose which caused the issue at certain frequencies.

They would probably have you check your system and run a few tests to make sure it's the headphone first. But ultimately they will get you sorted. Reach out to them.


----------



## MacedonianHero

CreditingKarma said:


> I have had my new AB-1266 PHI TC for about a month. I have noticed that from time to time when listening to solo cello and acoustic guitar that the driver will make a crinkling or buzzing sound but only when certain frequencies are played. Is it just that the driver is so thing that this could happen?



Is it in the same place on a recording? It could be a problem with the recording? I've had things like this pop up with various headphones, but I could reproduce them with more than one headphone, so the recording had "issues" at specific locations...with really revealing headphones, they can be like a microscope into anomalies in an album.


----------



## CreditingKarma

MacedonianHero said:


> Is it in the same place on a recording? It could be a problem with the recording? I've had things like this pop up with various headphones, but I could reproduce them with more than one headphone, so the recording had "issues" at specific locations...with really revealing headphones, they can be like a microscope into anomalies in an album.



It would happen with the same recordings but it is a noise coming from the driver. It happened today on a song that I have listened to many times Rylynn by Andy Mckee. It has not happened on that song with the abyss before. It sounded like the classic planar driver crinkle.


----------



## MacedonianHero

CreditingKarma said:


> It would happen with the same recordings but it is a noise coming from the driver. It happened today on a song that I have listened to many times Rylynn by Andy Mckee. It has not happened on that song with the abyss before. It sounded like the classic planar driver crinkle.



I see. My comments were say at 2:42 of the same song, I would hear something scratching...and always at 2:42 of the same song. I then switched to a different pair of headphones and still heard it at 2:42...so the recording had an issue.


----------



## ra990

Just switch the leads into the speakers. If the same side still makes the noise, it's the driver. If the sound switches channels, it's the source.


----------



## CreditingKarma

ra990 said:


> Just switch the leads into the speakers. If the same side still makes the noise, it's the driver. If the sound switches channels, it's the source.



Did that already it remained on the same side. For now it has gone away though.


----------



## simorag

A Moon 600i (v1, 2nd hand) has arrived at my place … now I have two weeks to decide whether to keep it or not 

First impression: a beautiful machine. More to come over the next weekend.


----------



## koven

Nice one @simorag. Have you tried the SR1a yet, or considered?


----------



## honeyjjack

Has anyone found a headphone case that fits these? Im guessing most just keep in on their stands but i need to carry them around (not in a leather bag, wooden box, or brief cases with foam)


----------



## Litlgi74

simorag said:


> A Moon 600i (v1, 2nd hand) has arrived at my place … now I have two weeks to decide whether to keep it or not
> 
> First impression: a beautiful machine. More to come over the next weekend.


There she is!!! I'd be surprised if you don't keep her beyond the two week trial... Have fun!


----------



## simorag

koven said:


> Nice one @simorag. Have you tried the SR1a yet, or considered?



Thanks!

I have tried the SR1a recently, and reported back on head-fi my impressions (see here and here).

I am very much in love of the Abyss subwoofer-like bass experience, and I missed that painfully with the SR1a … however, the RAAL has some very special qualities the AB-1266 can't touch, so they could complement well each other. 
The 600i should have sufficient power to make the SR1a at ease, and possibly I will give them another chance in the future.

I am seeing the combo AB-1266 / SR1a / 600i quite a bit on the neutral / analytical side, so perhaps a warmer, more easygoing headphone - directly driven by the DAVE - could be an even more compelling complement.

We'll see!


----------



## Mikey99

honeyjjack said:


> Has anyone found a headphone case that fits these? Im guessing most just keep in on their stands but i need to carry them around (not in a leather bag, wooden box, or brief cases with foam)


Photo bags work well. They have padding, and many are about the right size.


----------



## astrostar59

I was also wondering if there is a cover for the Abyss that somebody has made? I use a glass bell jar for my LCD4s but the Abyss is wider so won't fit. Ideas?


----------



## astrostar59

I was thinking of having 2 x black velvet gloves made, that slide over the earpieces, but let the cable stay intact. Must talk to the wife....


----------



## astrostar59 (Sep 24, 2019)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/40x20mm-Al...771979?hash=item340f867f0b:g:hfQAAOSwyQtVy1Fo



simorag said:


> A Moon 600i (v1, 2nd hand) has arrived at my place … now I have two weeks to decide whether to keep it or not
> 
> First impression: a beautiful machine. More to come over the next weekend.



Looks nice. Mine is satin aluminium finish. Where are the feet? I would recommend putting 4 x aluminium feet with rubber O rings to replace the supplied feet. No slip, and some suspension as well.

I used these. You need to drill out the hole to fit an M8 bolt, but otherwise perfect fit.


----------



## simorag

astrostar59 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/40x20mm-Al...771979?hash=item340f867f0b:g:hfQAAOSwyQtVy1Fo
> 
> 
> Looks nice. Mine is satin aluminium finish. Where are the feet? I would recommend putting 4 x aluminium feet with rubber O rings to replace the supplied feet. No slip, and some suspension as well.
> ...



I have the spikes, but they are VERY sharply pointed, and I did not want to damage my bamboo rack shelf. I am thinking to get some metallic disks to put between the spikes and the rack.


----------



## ufospls2

simorag said:


> A Moon 600i (v1, 2nd hand) has arrived at my place … now I have two weeks to decide whether to keep it or not
> 
> First impression: a beautiful machine. More to come over the next weekend.



Very Cool. The 600i is still near the top of my "want to hear" list for the Abyss.


----------



## Delacaff

Joe Skubinski said:


> Actually the stock Just Mobile stand will cause the cables to jam into the desktop, it's too short. Our stand is based on this except we machine an extended portion to raise height, change out hardware, etc, etc, so the ABYSS stand is a modified version. We don't sell this stand separately because there are lower cost alternatives as many have shown.
> 
> We will bring in the new German made Rooms Design stand as soon as they can make more than a few, this stand lets you place the headphone on it's frame properly.


Hello Joe.
This stand from germany looks fantastic for the Abyss. I can't find the brand website. Can you help? Cheers


----------



## Joe Skubinski

In Europe email stefan@audiophileartisans.com . We have them on order for North America, will add to our website when available.


----------



## Delacaff

Joe Skubinski said:


> In Europe email stefan@audiophileartisans.com . We have them on order for North America, will add to our website when available.


Thank you very much Joe


----------



## ufospls2

Hey Guys,

I purchased a pair of Abyss Phi TC’s recently and they arrived today. This is my fourth pair of Abyss headphones. The original AB-1266, the AB-1266 Phi, The Diana Phi, and now the AB-1266 Phi TC’s. I really do love the Abyss “house sound.” I’m still fiddling with the fit, which is a bit different the I am used to due to the new (to me, CC/TC) ear pads. They fit a bit tighter than with the old ear pads as they are wider. Sonically so far? I am very impressed. I’ll get some hours in and report back with a full review in a few weeks!


----------



## lambdastorm (Sep 26, 2019)

ufospls2 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I purchased a pair of Abyss Phi TC’s recently and they arrived today. This is my fourth pair of Abyss headphones. The original AB-1266, the AB-1266 Phi, The Diana Phi, and now the AB-1266 Phi TC’s. I really do love the Abyss “house sound.” I’m still fiddling with the fit, which is a bit different the I am used to due to the new (to me, CC/TC) ear pads. They fit a bit tighter than with the old ear pads as they are wider. Sonically so far? I am very impressed. I’ll get some hours in and report back with a full review in a few weeks!


Congrats getting the TC! Every once in a while I think of how much you sold your Phi for and mentally punch myself for not grabbing them.


----------



## ufospls2

lambdastorm said:


> Congrats getting the TC! Every once in a while I think of how much you sold your Phi for and want to punch myself for not grabbing them.



Man that seems like forever ago. I have missed having a pair of AB-1266's so much! Any kind. I'm really fortunate to be able to own the TC's now. Thoroughly enjoying listening to them currently : )


----------



## attmci (Sep 28, 2019)

ufospls2 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I purchased a pair of Abyss Phi TC’s recently and they arrived today. This is my fourth pair of Abyss headphones. The original AB-1266, the AB-1266 Phi, The Diana Phi, and now the AB-1266 Phi TC’s. I really do love the Abyss “house sound.” I’m still fiddling with the fit, which is a bit different the I am used to due to the new (to me, CC/TC) ear pads. They fit a bit tighter than with the old ear pads as they are wider. Sonically so far? I am very impressed. I’ll get some hours in and report back with a full review in a few weeks!


That headphone stand looks so familiar. Please compare the TC to the other phone on that same stand a couple of weeks ago. You know what I mean, right? 

Congrats on the new TC.


----------



## FourT6and2

Long shot, but anybody in the SF Bay Area have a pair of these they're willing to let me try out? Local stores don't stock them.


----------



## ufospls2

FourT6and2 said:


> Long shot, but anybody in the SF Bay Area have a pair of these they're willing to let me try out? Local stores don't stock them.




http://www.audiovisionsf.com/?page=detail&product_id=2742


----------



## tholt

FourT6and2 said:


> Long shot, but anybody in the SF Bay Area have a pair of these they're willing to let me try out? Local stores don't stock them.



As it happens, Audiovision SF is having a 20 year anniversary celebration all weekend starting today. I'm going tomorrow and hope to demo some TC's amongst other things


----------



## FourT6and2 (Sep 27, 2019)

ufospls2 said:


> http://www.audiovisionsf.com/?page=detail&product_id=2742





tholt said:


> As it happens, Audiovision SF is having a 20 year anniversary celebration all weekend starting today. I'm going tomorrow and hope to demo some TC's amongst other things



Like I said, local shops don't carry them. I stopped by Audio Vision and they said their event this weekend isn't really a good time to demo headphones and they don't have any Abyss available.


----------



## tholt

FourT6and2 said:


> Like I said, local shops don't carry them. I stopped by Audio Vision and they said their event this weekend is not really a good time to demo headphones and that they wouldn't have any Abyss available as they don't stock 'em.



Well that sucks! A buddy of mine recently bought a pair of Diana Phis there, so obviously they were stocking those at the time. I assumed they had the line up available.

Kind of begs what the point is of selling them if they don't stock them.


----------



## FourT6and2 (Sep 27, 2019)

tholt said:


> Well that sucks! A buddy of mine recently bought a pair of Diana Phis there, so obviously they were stocking those at the time. I assumed they had the line up available.
> 
> Kind of begs what the point is of selling them if they don't stock them.



They said they can order them. But I want to compare the cans on my short list and buy the ones I like the most. They do have all the other options I'm considering, though. So that's cool. I understand not stocking a $5k set of headphones. That's a lot of money tied up in inventory.


----------



## tholt

FourT6and2 said:


> They said they can order them. But I want to compare the cans on my short list and buy the ones I like the most.



I just called them to ask. The guy I spoke with said they had them in stock and would be available to listen this weekend. So ....  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## FourT6and2

tholt said:


> I just called them to ask. The guy I spoke with said they had them in stock and would be available to listen this weekend. So ....  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



double-u tee eff


----------



## Litlgi74

Let the magic begin!


----------



## ufospls2

FourT6and2 said:


> Like I said, local shops don't carry them. I stopped by Audio Vision and they said their event this weekend isn't really a good time to demo headphones and they don't have any Abyss available.



Thats a shame. I hope you can find a pair somehow


----------



## Mikey99

I’ll be comparing the TC to many of the other “big boys” at this special event at Headphone Auditions in Amsterdam. Cool to have all of these in one place.

https://www.headphoneauditions.nl/private/


----------



## astrostar59

Mikey99 said:


> I’ll be comparing the TC to many of the other “big boys” at this special event at Headphone Auditions in Amsterdam. Cool to have all of these in one place.
> 
> https://www.headphoneauditions.nl/private/



Indeed. I am setting up a high end headphone showroom in Spain right now. I am building up a new website for it and sales channels, inc demo days. My first product range is the JPS Labs with the Abyss TC.


----------



## Litlgi74

tholt said:


> If you have a desk or tabletop or something to clamp these onto, it's a $25 solution from Amazon (each headphone holder is ~$12)


Thank You, Thank You... These are awesome!

Installed today... They are just what I needed.


----------



## tholt

Litlgi74 said:


> Thank You, Thank You... These are awesome!



Cool! They've worked great for me. I found a pair that were just black, no logo. Together with the Abyss almost look made for each other -- all that black industrial looking metal


----------



## Litlgi74

tholt said:


> Cool! They've worked great for me. I found a pair that were just black, no logo. Together with the Abyss almost look made for each other -- all that black industrial looking metal


No fair... Are not going to share a link? Lol


----------



## tholt

Here you go: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PFV1NQX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Litlgi74

tholt said:


> Here you go: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PFV1NQX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Ordered... Thanks.


----------



## BPED

astrostar59 said:


> Indeed. I am setting up a high end headphone showroom in Spain right now. I am building up a new website for it and sales channels, inc demo days. My first product range is the JPS Labs with the Abyss TC.



Hello, I have been following silently this thread for quite some time as I am considering buying a pair of TC and suitable amp. My current set-up is Utopia + Hugo2. I am based in Spain so I would very much welcome a place where TOTL can be compared! Would it be possible to share more info about your plans (maybe you already did on local forums)? Or do you have a webpage in Spanish which can be consulted? If this is against the rules of this platform, we can follow up bilaterally. thanks in advance..


----------



## jlbrach

you will need a different set up with the TC because the hugo 2 will not drive it properly


----------



## BPED

Hello, yes I know I should also invest in my amp. I read here different views on how to best drive the TC, including several people using speakers amps. I of course trust their judgment but I note that looking at impedance (relatively low) and sensitivity the TC do not seem that hard to drive. But I guess that numbers do not tell the whole story...

I am currently using my Hugo2 with Utopia and also as a DAC for my active speakers ATC SCM19A, my thinking was to go for a TT2, possibly with Mscaler. That way I would: 1) drive properly both Abyss and Focal, 2) improve my DAC for cans and speakers, 3) possibly get rid of my ATC pre if I like the TT2 pre better.

Now TT2 + mscaler is a lot of money and there are certainly alternatives in the same price bracket... any suggestions? In particular I'd like to have a proper amplification for the TC (maybe not the best theoretically achievable but a very good one) and be able to use it with the Utopia as well. I  may end up selling the U but I have no way of knowing that in advance.

thanks to those who want to chip in!


----------



## Roasty

I did a thing today... 



 



 



 



 

I'm sure you guys have seen this many times.. I always enjoy the unboxing. Can't wait to have a listen to them tonight, after putting the kids to zzz.

I have the HPA4 and Woo Audio 22. I hope these will be good enough for these headphones.

I got the Lite version. The stock cable should be decent enough? Apologies if this question has been beaten to death, but saving me from going through 600 pages; what headphone cable do most here recommend? 

I'm using the danacable lazuli reference with my Utopia and Lavricable Grand Line / Norne Audio Silvergarde S3 for the Empyrean.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 1, 2019)

Roasty said:


> I did a thing today...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I also have Utopias with the Lazuli Reference cable, and I bought the Lite TC version too.  I really do think the stock cables on the AB-1266 TC are pretty good.  There have been a few comparisons here and there (somewhere in this thread and then Audiobacon.net).  From what I've gathered, the stock is good for hip-hop and rock/metal, the upgraded JPS super Conductor cable adds warmth and is good for classical, jazz etc., and the Lazuli Nirvana is very, very good (Jay at Audiobacon said it's his favorite cables for the Phi).

Me personally, I'm going to probably upgrade my TC cable for a Lazuli Reference (I can't justify spending $3500 for the nirvana).  While the TC stock cable is good, it's not very ergonomic.  I hate the way it feels, I hate how it always gets tangled, I hate how it's plastic and doesn't bend well, etc.  Part of me thinks Abyss makes the stock cable intentionally unwieldy, so that people buy the SC upgrade...hahaha.


----------



## GuyForkes

Roasty said:


> I did a thing today...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's a terrible thing you did. That's why I don't visit AVone, their sales people are too effective. Seriously though, congrats on the purchase!


----------



## llamaluv

Roasty said:


> I'm using the danacable lazuli reference with my Utopia and Lavricable Grand Line / Norne Audio Silvergarde S3 for the Empyrean.



When I had the Phi last year, I compared the Lazuli Reference (direct to the Phi (no adapter), fully "burned-in") to the stock cable and was surprised to find I preferred stock. The stock cable was decidedly more lively and dynamic. The LR was perhaps "smoother" and more subdued in the mids/upper-mids in comparison. It had slightly deeper bass extension when I focused specifically on that aspect, but I didn't find that to be an important difference when it came to listening to real music of any genre. I think these characteristics of the LR are why so many people like it with the Utopia. But with the Phi, the end result for me was that I felt it was "subtracting" from the overall sound presentation. Anyway, that was my experience. This was with the WA33 and Metrum Pavane.



Roasty said:


> I have the HPA4 and Woo Audio 22. I hope these will be good enough for these headphones.



Would love to hear more about how the TC responds to the HPA4, as I have an AHB2 and the TC is on my "shopping list"...


----------



## lambdastorm

Dang, everyone’s getting the TC! They had a sale last year which dropped the lite version down $500. If they do the same this year I might grab one.


----------



## Roasty

GuyForkes said:


> That's a terrible thing you did. That's why I don't visit AVone, their sales people are too effective. Seriously though, congrats on the purchase!



Thanks! And you are absolutely right! Haha oh man I really have to stop going to that mall for haircuts.. somehow I always end up in the AVone and quite often the wallet takes a hit.


----------



## Roasty

llamaluv said:


> When I had the Phi last year, I compared the Lazuli Reference (direct to the Phi (no adapter), fully "burned-in") to the stock cable and was surprised to find I preferred stock. The stock cable was decidedly more lively and dynamic. The LR was perhaps "smoother" and more subdued in the mids/upper-mids in comparison. It had slightly deeper bass extension when I focused specifically on that aspect, but I didn't find that to be an important difference when it came to listening to real music of any genre. I think these characteristics of the LR are why so many people like it with the Utopia. But with the Phi, the end result for me was that I felt it was "subtracting" from the overall sound presentation. Anyway, that was my experience. This was with the WA33 and Metrum Pavane.
> 
> Would love to hear more about how the TC responds to the HPA4, as I have an AHB2 and the TC is on my "shopping list"...



Thanks for chiming in a out the lazuli reference! I was quite close to pulling the trigger last night, but your post did echo my concerns. Perhaps the ultra/nirvana is a better pair with the added silver component. I may end up holding off a cable purchase for the meantime and listen with stock cable for a good few weeks.

Will let u know how it goes with the HPA4. Coincidentally, I have an AHB2 in the mail, but the plan was to use it with my bookshelves... Hmmm..


----------



## Roasty

lambdastorm said:


> Dang, everyone’s getting the TC! They had a sale last year which dropped the lite version down $500. If they do the same this year I might grab one.



Whaaaaat I had no idea they had that sale before! Oh man.. 500 is a decent amount. I would have waited if I knew..  But I had been thinking about the TC ever since I auditioned it with the WA33 over 4 months ago and it has been gnawing in the back of my mind ever since.


----------



## Roasty

Ciggavelli said:


> I also have Utopias with the Lazuli Reference cable, and I bought the Lite TC version too.  I really do think the stock cables on the AB-1266 TC are pretty good.  There have been a few comparisons here and there (somewhere in this thread and then Audiobacon.net).  From what I've gathered, the stock is good for hip-hop and rock/metal, the upgraded JPS super Conductor cable adds warmth and is good for classical, jazz etc., and the Lazuli Nirvana is very, very good (Jay at Audiobacon said it's his favorite cables for the Phi).
> 
> Me personally, I'm going to probably upgrade my TC cable for a Lazuli Reference (I can't justify spending $3500 for the nirvana).  While the TC stock cable is good, it's not very ergonomic.  I hate the way it feels, I hate how it always gets tangled, I hate how it's plastic and doesn't bend well, etc.  Part of me thinks Abyss makes the stock cable intentionally unwieldy, so that people buy the SC upgrade...hahaha.



You are right about the stock cable lol it is quite a mess to use and so stiff!

I really enjoy the LR with my Utopia. I prefer the LR over the stock cable and Lavricable Grand Line. Other than the LR, were you considering anything else?


----------



## llamaluv

Roasty said:


> Perhaps the ultra/nirvana is a better pair with the added silver component. I may end up holding off a cable purchase for the meantime and listen with stock cable for a good few weeks.



I'm using the Lazuli Ultra with my Susvaras and yea, I find it to bend the stick in the other direction -- potentially too much so. With the the Pass Labs X150.8 (speaker amp), which has a warm/meaty/punchy signature, the Ultra resulted in too much upper mids in a way that I would almost describe as a glare. Yet with the AHB2, which is of course very neutral and hyper-detailed, I think I like it, and the raised upper-mids are much less noticeable and somehow works out better. Which is interesting because I would have predicted in advance that this cable would complement the warmer amp better, but it didn't. Again though this is with the Susvara, but my takeaway from such experiments as always is there's no accounting for synergy . Last thing on the Ultra is that it exposes more graduated, nuanced layering and air to the music, which is for sure a good thing. This is in comparison to what's been my normal Susvara cable, which is a Lavricables Grand 20 silver.



Roasty said:


> Will let u know how it goes with the HPA4. Coincidentally, I have an AHB2 in the mail, but the plan was to use it with my bookshelves... Hmmm..



Nice! 

Even if you don't plan intend on using the AHB2 with the Abyss generally, it would be well worth the effort comparing the two, if only to eliminate the possibility that the speaker amp version doesn't sound noticeably different, and possibly in a good way. I'm sure many people would predict in-advance that there "should" be no important differences in the resulting sound signature between the two, but I would remain unconvinced until I was able to try it out directly, through experience!


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Been listening to the Deluxe Abbey Road release.  The new mix absolutely sings on the TC...its truly fab. This is why I love this hobby.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Roasty said:


> I did a thing today...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Congratulations on a truly amazing pair of world class headphones! The TC give me stat-like clarity/speed, but retain some of the best ortho bass around....throw in imaging that bests the HD800S, you can have your cake and eat it too!


----------



## Roasty

llamaluv said:


> I'm using the Lazuli Ultra with my Susvaras and yea, I find it to bend the stick in the other direction -- potentially too much so. With the the Pass Labs X150.8 (speaker amp), which has a warm/meaty/punchy signature, the Ultra resulted in too much upper mids in a way that I would almost describe as a glare. Yet with the AHB2, which is of course very neutral and hyper-detailed, I think I like it, and the raised upper-mids are much less noticeable and somehow works out better. Which is interesting because I would have predicted in advance that this cable would complement the warmer amp better, but it didn't. Again though this is with the Susvara, but my takeaway from such experiments as always is there's no accounting for synergy . Last thing on the Ultra is that it exposes more graduated, nuanced layering and air to the music, which is for sure a good thing. This is in comparison to what's been my normal Susvara cable, which is a Lavricables Grand 20 silver.
> 
> Nice!
> 
> Even if you don't plan intend on using the AHB2 with the Abyss generally, it would be well worth the effort comparing the two, if only to eliminate the possibility that the speaker amp version doesn't sound noticeably different, and possibly in a good way. I'm sure many people would predict in-advance that there "should" be no important differences in the resulting sound signature between the two, but I would remain unconvinced until I was able to try it out directly, through experience!



I bought the Lavricable Grand Line for my Utopias but i didn't really enjoy the sound. Although very detailed, it was also rather bright, bordering on sibilant for me. Going to the LR with the Utopias was the right choice. I ended up reterminating the Lavricable for the Meze Empy and that was a really noticeable improvement over the Empy stock cable. The Grand Line did not sound overly bright with the Empy; rather, i felt it balanced out the sound more, tightening up the lows and making the highs clearer. The Norne Audio Silvergarde S3 is similar to the Lavricable, but slightly smoother on the higher registers. I was quite dismayed to see there is no Grand Line offering for the Abyss. I may write in to Lavricable to see if something can be done about that..

I will likely try out the AHB2 with the Abyss eventually. I guess i need some sort of adaptor cable ie 4 pin neutrik female to dual speaker bananas or something like that?

Actually we have somewhat similar gear.. but notice i am refraining from asking you how the WA33 sounds hahaha! sorry for my wallet..


----------



## Roasty

MacedonianHero said:


> Congratulations on a truly amazing pair of world class headphones! The TC give me stat-like clarity/speed, but retain some of the best ortho bass around....throw in imaging that bests the HD800S, you can have your cake and eat it too!



you do know that this purchase is all your fault!!! 
lol.. thank you for that nudge to push me over the edge.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Roasty said:


> you do know that this purchase is all your fault!!!
> lol.. thank you for that nudge to push me over the edge.



Hey, that's what we do...we're all enablers. Enjoy the headphones!!! Brilliant pairing with the HPA4 as well!


----------



## Litlgi74

tholt said:


> Here you go: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PFV1NQX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Thanks @tholt much better looking. I prefer this option to the headphone stand.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 1, 2019)

Roasty said:


> You are right about the stock cable lol it is quite a mess to use and so stiff!
> 
> I really enjoy the LR with my Utopia. I prefer the LR over the stock cable and Lavricable Grand Line. Other than the LR, were you considering anything else?


honestly, I bought the LRs for the utopias blind thinking it probably wouldn’t work out and I could just return them. I was kinda skeptical about the benefit cables could bring. Man, once I listened to the LRs I was shocked how much better they sounded from the stock Utopia cable. It sounded so much better that I thought maybe everybody was right about the LR cables. I kept them and stopped looking at other cables for my utopias.

Given how much better the LRs sounded on the Utopia, I just figured they would be good on the TCs too. However, reading some of the posts here has me a bit cautious.  I haven’t put in an order for the LR for my TCs yet. I think I need to do some more research. Luckily the LR have a return policy, so I may just try them out and if I don’t like them, I’ll try the JPS Labs SC cables.

Do you have any suggestions?   I listen to mostly Hip-Hop and Metal (death, doom, grind, and black), for reference


----------



## tholt

mt-hifidelity said:


> Been listening to the Deluxe Abbey Road release. The new mix absolutely sings on the TC...its truly fab. This is why I love this hobby.



Me too. I'm not a huge Beatles fan but comparing the new cuts to earlier ones in the Tidal library and my own (good to have friends with hi-res files), 2019 version is an appreciable improvement.



Litlgi74 said:


> Thanks @tholt much better looking. I prefer this option to the headphone stand.



Cool cool! Yup, works great for me as well and I agree, all black mo betta.


----------



## Roasty

The phi TC + benchmark hpa4 is insane. 

Also, I had no idea the position of the ear pads could make so much difference. I had them set up the wrong way at first, and had them in a position such that there was a good seal all around. The music sounded shouty and the bass was lacking and lifeless.

Then I started to move the pads one notch at a time. My goodness.. So that's where all the bass has been hiding! So impactful, tight and punchy. And the highs and vocals so very sweet now.

Turns out my optimal pad position is with the stitching facing directly forward, with a small gap between the pads and my head over the lower and lower back region.

Any further notch down the stitches go, the bass increases but then ends up too boomy and bloated for me.

I don't know what to do with my other headphones now. Plus I have a ZMF verite cocobolo in production queue...


----------



## Roasty

mt-hifidelity said:


> Been listening to the Deluxe Abbey Road release.  The new mix absolutely sings on the TC...its truly fab. This is why I love this hobby.



I am doing this right now and it feels like the TC give this album a whole new character and presentation compared to the utopia and empy. These headphones are really something else.. I am glad I took the plunge.


----------



## cj3209

Roasty said:


> I am doing this right now and it feels like the TC give this album a whole new character and presentation compared to the utopia and empy. These headphones are really something else.. I am glad I took the plunge.


You guys are making me envious...I'm on a six-month waiting list to get my phi cc's converted to TC...oof


----------



## Litlgi74

cj3209 said:


> You guys are making me envious...I'm on a six-month waiting list to get my phi cc's converted to TC...oof


Me too!


----------



## CreditingKarma

cj3209 said:


> You guys are making me envious...I'm on a six-month waiting list to get my phi cc's converted to TC...oof




How do you like the pavane so far. I had ordered one but metrum lost the order. I ended up canceling it and picking up a TT2. I am thinking it will replace both the onyx and liquid platinum.


----------



## simorag (Oct 3, 2019)

After a very intense – and utterly enjoyable – week of listening, it’s time for a feedback about the Simaudio Moon 600i (V1) on this thread, i.e. the very place where I heard of how good is the 600i / AB-1266 pairing.
I am on the quest for my ‘endgame’ (yeah, I know ...) amp for the Abyss since several months now, after selling my XI Audio stack. The main reason for me to sell the Formula S / Powerman – indeed a very good match for the AB-1266 – was to get a single amp capable of driving headphones (primary use) and loudspeakers (secondary use).






Long story short, the 600i is a very capable integrated, and ticks most of my boxes, but not enough to convince me to keep it as my ultimate companion for the Abyss.

On the positives, compared to driving the Abyss directly from the DAVE, there are three main bonuses in my opinion: (a) macrodynamics, (b) soundstage size and layering (the latter especially with large scale and/or very complex music played at louder levels) and (c) bass tightness and control.

The remarkable thing is that the 600i achieves these results to a significantly larger extent than most other amps I tried, by retaining ‘almost’ all the transparency, microdetail and overall finesse of the DAVE.

The 600i is a very smooth amp, its treble never gets harsh and its overall presentation is polite, in a good way.
The midrange is, while slightly, a bit more recessed than DAVE direct, and vocals may appear a tiny bit thinner.
Tonally, the character of the source (DAVE + M Scaler in my case) was rendered in an extremely accurate fashion, confirming the neutral and transparent character of the 600i.
Overall, the 600i gave me a superior listening experience than DAVE direct, or DAVE + Formula S, as an all-rounder, and excelled with live music, orchestral, electronica.

The reason why I am not keeping it is very simple: I have liked more other amps I auditioned during my quest, while unfortunately at a much higher price.

In terms of sound quality, the Riviera AIC-10 is my favorite so far, as it combines an emotionally involving midrange, harmonics richness with soundstage size / airiness, transparency and bass authority better than the other amplifiers I tried in my system.

I am going to audition a Viva Solistino (same design as Egoista 845, with speaker taps instead of headphones out), in the next days.

I’d like to add that over the last months I had to reconsider how good the DAVE (with M Scaler plus lots of other tweaks) headphone output is. It is much harder to improve on than what most people would think of, myself included.


----------



## jlbrach

I agree completely regarding the dave and its ability to drive HP's....I own the formula s/powerman combo and tend to use it more often with the TC and dave/blu2 combo and although via the formula s the sound it bigger, wider and has more grunt it is cleaner straight out of the dave.....there are certain recordings that just need the extra power provided by the external amp and for me the formula s/powerman is outstanding....that said many times I find listening straight out of dave to be sublime...depends on my mood...nice to have both options


----------



## lithiumnk

Roasty said:


> I did a thing today...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congrats !
There is niimbus US4 & v281 in the background (looks like AVONE store). Did you tried them with TC? How do they sound as compared to hpa4?


----------



## ufospls2

Serious head to head happening here.


----------



## CreditingKarma

ufospls2 said:


> Serious head to head happening here.




Did you break down and buy the TC. Warning there is no going back from them.


----------



## Roasty

lithiumnk said:


> Congrats !
> There is niimbus US4 & v281 in the background (looks like AVONE store). Did you tried them with TC? How do they sound as compared to hpa4?



Thanks! And yes, it is AVone! 

I did try the TC with the nimbus for about ten minutes. I can't really comment on the pairing because I had the earpads on the TC positioned wrong. I only got the pads positioned well after taking the TC home..


----------



## Roasty

quick question guys:

after burn-in, does the sound signature of the TC + stock cable still lean towards a little bright?

reason i am asking is because if that is the case, then i'm going to be leaning towards a danacable in hopes that it will do the same for the abyss as what it did for the utopia.


----------



## tholt

Roasty said:


> after burn-in, does the sound signature of the TC + stock cable still lean towards a little bright?



IME, the 1266 can lean towards bright on top and a little thin in the mids. I've experienced this most on the OG 1266, but also on my current Phi's to a lesser extent. I've tried quite a few different amps; same tendencies.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Oct 4, 2019)

Guys, any recommendations to make the ab-1266 tc more comfortable? At the beginning, I was so taken away by the sound that I did not feel any discomfort. After some months,  I am reaching more and more for my empys. Not the same, but so comfy. I was thinking of wrapping something around the headband of the ab-1266 to make it softer, may be... any ideas? My setting is lose but not overly so (which I find also uncomfortable, the dangling is not nice), with the pads at an 11oclock position seen from the front.


----------



## Articnoise

simorag said:


> After a very intense – and utterly enjoyable – week of listening, it’s time for a feedback about the Simaudio Moon 600i (V1) on this thread, i.e. the very place where I heard of how good is the 600i / AB-1266 pairing.
> I am on the quest for my ‘endgame’ (yeah, I know ...) amp for the Abyss since several months now, after selling my XI Audio stack. The main reason for me to sell the Formula S / Powerman – indeed a very good match for the AB-1266 – was to get a single amp capable of driving headphones (primary use) and loudspeakers (secondary use).
> 
> 
> ...



I have a very different audio system than what you have, and the Moon 600i is the only gear we have (had) in common. Still as different as the rest of our gear is I must say that your description of the 600i resonate very much with what I hear. I have never heard the Riviera AIC-10, but can imagen that if it has a bit fuller and richer mid-range than the 600i it would be a killer amp, especially together with headphones that can sound a touch too lean and dry in the mid-range.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Roasty said:


> quick question guys:
> 
> after burn-in, does the sound signature of the TC + stock cable still lean towards a little bright?
> 
> reason i am asking is because if that is the case, then i'm going to be leaning towards a danacable in hopes that it will do the same for the abyss as what it did for the utopia.



Recommend 100+ hours for initial break-in. During this time the sound settles down a bit on the top and bottom end fills in, particularly deep bass, this with the stock cable. If you're using an aftermarket headphone cable suggest to avoid silver with the 1266, particularly with solid state gear, as it will highlight certain upper frequencies. Also need to consider the source, if the sound does not suit, tweak the system components to fit, which typically means moving into a higher price class of components. In your system the HPA4 amp is a great start, I'd focus on the rest.


----------



## tholt

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Guys, any recommendations to make the ab-1266 tc more comfortable?



What specifically is uncomfortable? The headband on your head?


----------



## astrostar59

simorag said:


> After a very intense – and utterly enjoyable – week of listening, it’s time for a feedback about the Simaudio Moon 600i (V1) on this thread, i.e. the very place where I heard of how good is the 600i / AB-1266 pairing.
> I am on the quest for my ‘endgame’ (yeah, I know ...) amp for the Abyss since several months now, after selling my XI Audio stack. The main reason for me to sell the Formula S / Powerman – indeed a very good match for the AB-1266 – was to get a single amp capable of driving headphones (primary use) and loudspeakers (secondary use).



Don't forget to tune with cable, when you get to your destination amp.

Great review, thanks for all the effort doing this. I agree 100% with your appraisal. In my case, and with a tube DAC, I didn't want / found I didn't need, to change the timbre or signature. From my Kassandra it is spot on to my ears. I wanted the same signature, just amplified and without added grain or edges, loss of detail etc. My view is, and for speaker systems as well, tube in the signal path can and do sound more natural to my ears than SS right through. 

It doesn't always need tubes right through to get there, tubes in the DAC gain stage, or tubes in the amplifier to me makes a great system really special. I also find a tube pre with an SS power amp works well in a speaker system.

The 600i is a very capable amplifier, to better it IMO you need to go to big bottle tube amps, 813, 211 or 845s and well designed. 
My Genus is above the 600i but not as practical for HPs only.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

tholt said:


> What specifically is uncomfortable? The headband on your head?



yes, mostly that but also how the pads fit the head. 11 degree is Stil the best but not optimal either... 
An additional second strap slightly below the original one may be?


----------



## tholt

Hoegaardener70 said:


> yes, mostly that but also how the pads fit the head. 11 degree is Stil the best but not optimal either...
> An additional second strap slightly below the original one may be?



There are quite a few mods and tweaks in this thread that address fit and comfort. Maybe take a look back to see if anything looks like it might help. Despite the weight, I find the headband and fit surprisingly comfortable; the headband sort of perching on my head and holding everything in place. My cups are pretty loose; if I shake my head, the headphones wobble. The only thing I might start noticing after a while is the weight: my neck can start feeling it.

Not sure if your earcups are positioned correctly based on your comment -- they should ideally be surrounding your ears, not too low or high.


----------



## astrostar59

Yes my fit it like that as well. I toe in the frame a bit, have the frame on full width, and have a small gap (port) under my ears about 3cm wide maybe. Small gap, not huge.

This results in a balanced FR with tight bass and great soundstage, _correction_ - *unbelievably huge soundstage*....


----------



## seeteeyou

From Taiwan With Love, seriously awesome attitude

http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-731849-1-1.html


----------



## Abyss Headphones

New video on our Youtube channel... Diana Phi and AB-1266


----------



## Roasty

Am on the TC, listening to "Jazz Variants" by O-zone Percussion Group on Tidal, from the HPA4 fed by the DAC3b.

This track really shows off what the 1266 TC can do. And what other headphones can't do.. Utopia and Empy, so sorry guys, nice try though..


----------



## jlbrach

the TC is pretty much in its own league...I am a fan of the LCD-4 as well as the Hifiman offerings


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Roasty said:


> quick question guys:
> 
> after burn-in, does the sound signature of the TC + stock cable still lean towards a little bright?
> 
> reason i am asking is because if that is the case, then i'm going to be leaning towards a danacable in hopes that it will do the same for the abyss as what it did for the utopia.




Hey Roasty, I have the same impression. I got the danacable ultra, no difference In this regards,  imho. What really changes this is ... choosing hi-res and the right type of music


----------



## tholt

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I got the danacable ultra, no difference In this regards, imho


Good to know



Hoegaardener70 said:


> What really changes this is ... choosing hi-res and the right type of music


Not really the case for me. What improved the thinness, brightness etc most drastically for me was changing to a tubed amp.


----------



## Roasty

I ended up ordering a danacable lazuli reference for the 1266. Am hoping it will mellow down the highs a bit. I loved the utopia with the lazuli reference.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Oct 12, 2019)

Do you hear what I hear?




The more music I listen to with the 1266s... The more flaws are noticed... Bummer. 

Check out this track around the 47 second mark... Don't hear it at all with my Sony
wh1000mx3.

https://tidal.com/track/36403707

From my Google Drive

The new Tool album is loaded with similar quality control problems.


----------



## simorag (Oct 12, 2019)

Roasty said:


> I ended up ordering a danacable lazuli reference for the 1266. Am hoping it will mellow down the highs a bit. I loved the utopia with the lazuli reference.



When I tried the Lazuli Reference, I found it made most of its effect in the midrange area, providing a warmer, meatier sound. Treble was silkier with the DHC Prion4, which provided a tighter bass and the most  transparent presentation I have heard out of the AB-1266. I ended up getting the Prion4.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-444#post-14261937

Later on, I decided to try the Superconductor which brought me to sell the Prion4, as the SC gave me the best of both worlds (warmth / transparency).
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-510#post-14797813



Litlgi74 said:


> The more music I listen to with the 1266s... The more flaws are noticed... Bummer.



The AB-1266 TC are pretty ruthless when it comes to expose recording flaws, actually.

In my case, while I still consider the AB-1266 Phi TC a brighter-than-neutral headphone (less so than the CC, much less so than the original), I have found that investing in the source (adding the M Scaler to the DAVE), then in RF noise reduction (OPTO DX, battery powered equipment), and finally in better DAC and streamer power cables and interconnects has paid significant dividends.
I recently auditioned the Susvara and SR1a and - once fixed the source issues - I found the TC nearly as smooth in the treble as these two.

I am enjoying most of my music collection with little to no listening fatigue or treble quirks (e.g. sibilance) now, and rewarded by all those unique things the AB-1266 is so good at in the same time.
Of course, problematic recordings still sound … problematic 

A complementary headphone like some Audeze or ZMF offerings could be a good investment for a more relaxed, midrange-centric and forgiving listening experience, when in the mood for it, or when the recording itself calls for it.

Another option is to look into power amp matching (tubes or warmer-than-neutral SS). Best pairing I tried so far in terms of tone and timbre is with the Riviera AIC-10.

As a last resort, there is EQ, but personally I have never been able to really fix a specific area of the sound presentation without affecting for the worse the overall sound signature and / or the transparency of the AB-1266, but this is possibly due to my lack of skill in doing EQ properly.


----------



## cj3209

Litlgi74 said:


> Do you hear what I hear?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't hear anything that sticks out.  Good music though.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Oct 12, 2019)

cj3209 said:


> I don't hear anything that sticks out.  Good music though.


Really... Give the volume a good crank... You will hear it... It's an obvious digital faux pas.

Edit... Maybe not so obvious 

It lasts for more than two seconds.


----------



## Tekunda (Oct 12, 2019)

Roasty said:


> Am on the TC, listening to "Jazz Variants" by O-zone Percussion Group on Tidal, from the HPA4 fed by the DAC3b.
> 
> This track really shows off what the 1266 TC can do. And what other headphones can't do.. Utopia and Empy, so sorry guys, nice try though..


Wait for the release in November of the new Heddphones with ATM technology. I have auditioned both, the Abyss as well as the Heddphones driven by the Air Motion transformer technology and IMHO the Heddphones have potential to surpass the Abyss on the way to the headphone summit.


----------



## cj3209

Litlgi74 said:


> Really... Give the volume a good crank... You will hear it... It's an obvious digital faux pas.
> 
> Edit... Maybe not so obvious
> 
> It lasts for more than two seconds.


I still don't hear it, even at high volume.  Maybe it's a good thing or I'm listening to a different recording.  I have been experimenting with different RCA cables so it may be masking some sound.  Cables include an older noble soundlab cyprium, dh labs silver sonic, and a solid silver core cable.  Dont hear too many differences but did hear vast changes with my xlr cables.

Oh well...this may be one of the benefits of getting older...lol


----------



## Litlgi74 (Oct 12, 2019)

Thanks for trying... I'd be curious if anyone else hears it... Like I said earlier... The "blunder" is found in quite a few tracks of the new Tool album as well.

I did a quick Google search... There are a few posts speaking about what I think I am hearing. So I am fairly confident there is not a problem with my 1266s.

PS... I am using stock cables.

Thanks


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Oct 12, 2019)

Tekunda said:


> Wait for the release in November of the new Heddphones with ATM technology. I have auditioned both, the Abyss as well as the Heddphones driven by the Air Motion transformer technology and IMHO the Heddphones have potential to surpass the Abyss on the way to the headphone summit.



I worked with a man who worked with Oscar Heil. He produced modern AMT divers that sounded very good in loudspeakers, this was 20 years ago. Our initial R&D began with such a driver, but it had too much 'self-generated noise' for nearfield use an inch or so from your ear, so we moved to prototyping with flat planar diaphragms.


----------



## mulder01

Litlgi74 said:


> Thanks for trying... I'd be curious if anyone else hears it... Like I said earlier... The "blunder" is found in quite a few tracks of the new Tool album as well.
> 
> I did a quick Google search... There are a few posts speaking about what I think I am hearing. So I am fairly confident there is not a problem with my 1266s.
> 
> ...


Probably because Tool put their album out in such a rush...


----------



## Litlgi74

mulder01 said:


> Probably because Tool put their album out in such a rush...


Well at least the next one is supposed to be out shortly... Since that one was also completed years ago.


----------



## tholt

Litlgi74 said:


> Well at least the next one is supposed to be out shortly... Since that one was also completed years ago.



Wait wha..? Where did you hear this and do you have a link? First time I've heard this.


----------



## Litlgi74

tholt said:


> Wait wha..? Where did you hear this and do you have a link? First time I've heard this.


“My hope is we get in and knock out another record,” drummer Danny Carey admitted in an interview with _Metal Hammer_. “We have tons of material. It’s not going to take 12 years, or if it does, I’ll probably be so old I probably can’t pick up my sticks any more! But my hope is we’ll do another record and just keep moving forward.”

this is not the exact article I was speaking about... The one I saw, mentioned most of the work was already complete.


----------



## tholt

I won't hold my breath... but if they do — please make it rock more.


----------



## gonzalo1004es

Hi! If making single ended cable for the Abyss, what would be the cup pinout? Thanks in advance!


----------



## llamaluv

*Would anyone in the NYC area *have any interest in dropping by (in Manhattan) to hear their Abyss Phi TC on my system? I have an M-Scaler/DAVE and a Pass Labs X150.8 and Benchmark AHB2 speaker amps. I really want to get ears on the TC on my own setup before plunking down the dough. I owned the Phi for a couple months last year, but that was on a totally different setup. You could also check my profile to see if there's anything else I have that you'd want to hear while we're at it. I'm a gracious host (promise!).

PM me if interested, thanks.


----------



## cj3209

Litlgi74 said:


> Do you hear what I hear?
> 
> 
> 
> The more music I listen to with the 1266s... The more flaws are noticed... Bummer.


That is a great little tune; sounds great on the 1266 phi.  Makes me want to conquer the world!  Lol...


----------



## NZtechfreak

ufospls2 said:


> Serious head to head happening here.



How did it go? 

I officially started saving for the Abyss today after clearing a monumental load of bills, but I've not heard the Susvara yet (hoping for a chance to hear both on a trip to Melbourne since neither available here in NZ, unless there is a kiwi owner lurking here who wants to give a listen to their TC, so keen to hear your thoughts).


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 20, 2019)

I finally understand what "holographic" and "3D" sound stage means.  It happened with this song







It was so beautiful.  It was like a visceral experience.  It was so clear in mind.  The beat was moving forward and backward and left to right.  It was kinda a breakthrough in sound for me.  Now, I am going to chase a 3D and holographic sound stage with future upgrades.

Now, what led to this experience?  What caused everything to be 3D?  I can't pinpoint it, other than it is likely partially due to the TCs


----------



## Roasty

Received my Lazuli Reference today! 
Came in a brown carry case (the case for my utopia LR was black) with a strap. Asked for a 3.5m cable and non-CF splitter. Looking forward to testing it out tonight. Thanks Dana!


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> Received my Lazuli Reference today!
> Came in a brown carry case (the case for my utopia LR was black) with a strap. Asked for a 3.5m cable and non-CF splitter. Looking forward to testing it out tonight. Thanks Dana!


Now you can carry the nice cable with you.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Roasty said:


> Received my Lazuli Reference today!
> Came in a brown carry case (the case for my utopia LR was black) with a strap. Asked for a 3.5m cable and non-CF splitter. Looking forward to testing it out tonight. Thanks Dana!



I’m curious to hear your initial impressions


----------



## nogi replicant

Quick question for the Formula S owners. I recently picked up a Phi CC and I am considering a Formula S to throw in between it and the DAVE. Does the Formula S output the same power from the 1/4 inch as the other output types? Sorry but I am an amp noob. thanks


----------



## jlbrach

yes it is not a balanced amp...and it is fantastic


----------



## Roasty

Ciggavelli said:


> I’m curious to hear your initial impressions



I've only listened to them for about 40 minutes so far.. Did some very quick a/b testing with stock cable. 

Some very early initial impressions:
Prefer the stock cable. 
Stock has more bass slam, texture, thump. Can really feel the pressure when deep bass notes hit, and my chest can feel it too. This seems lacking with the Danacable; bass doesn't extend down as low and I can't feel the air hit my eardrums as much as the stock. 
There is also more space around notes and instruments, whereas with the Dana it seems more congested. Stock brings out each element individually, much better. 
Dana highs are a little grainy. 

Having said that.. These are very similar findings to what I went through with the lazuli reference for the utopia. But now I'm absolutely loving the danacable and the utopia. 

I'm going to let the abyss and danacable the run over the next several days and come back with my thoughts then. 

As Vinh mentioned to me, "Do break it in for 100+ hours and it will sing for you."


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 21, 2019)

Roasty said:


> I've only listened to them for about 40 minutes so far.. Did some very quick a/b testing with stock cable.
> 
> Some very early initial impressions:
> Prefer the stock cable.
> ...


Thanks for your initial impressions.  It took me a while to appreciate the LR with my Utopias too, but your comment about the stock cable having more bass slam, texture, and thump,etc., is kind of a deal breaker for me if you report the same after 100 hours.  Of course, I want to hear your impressions after 100 hours though.

Somebody else on here (can't remember who) mentioned that they were not a fan of the LR on their Abyss Phis either (I think his were CCs though).  So, this may be a trend.  The Audiobacon guy also felt that the stock had better bass and is a better cable for bass heavy music, like hip-hop and metal.

My 2 favorite genres are metal and hip-hop, so I need my bass.  I like the way the stock sounds, but as I've mentioned before, the ergonomics are terrible...lol.  I did buy some Velcro ties, and it's easier to manage...hahaha.

Side note, I went back and listened to my Utopias after neglecting them for a couple of weeks, and I'm convinced that they are the perfect companion to the TCs.  The TCs are meaty and bass-heavy (at least with my amp), while the Utopias handle the other end of things, being more mid-range and treble focused.  Still gotta audition the Susvaras, but I like the variety that having the TC and Utopia headphones provides. Depending on my mood, I can go either way...


----------



## Roasty

Ciggavelli said:


> Thanks for your initial impressions.  It took me a while to appreciate the LR with my Utopias too, but your comment about the stock cable having more bass slam, texture, and thump,etc., is kind of a deal breaker for me if you report the same after 100 hours.  Of course, I want to hear your impressions after 100 hours though.
> 
> Somebody else on here (can't remember who) mentioned that they were not a fan of the LR on their Abyss Phis either (I think his were CCs though).  So, this may be a trend.  The Audiobacon guy also felt that the stock had better bass and is a better cable for bass heavy music, like hip-hop and metal.
> 
> ...



Yep. The bass was what sealed the deal with the TC for me. It would be a pity if the LR can't deliver, at the very least be on par with the stock cable.

Just goes to show how good the stock cable actually is, and now makes me wonder to what level the top JPS superconducter cable can take the TC to..


----------



## CreditingKarma

Roasty said:


> Yep. The bass was what sealed the deal with the TC for me. It would be a pity if the LR can't deliver, at the very least be on par with the stock cable.
> 
> Just goes to show how good the stock cable actually is, and now makes me wonder to what level the top JPS superconducter cable can take the TC to..



I auditioned the transparent ultra headphone cable with my ab1266 tc and found that the stock cable had a better sound stage and more detail as well. I think that all of this is a testament to how good the stock cable is with abyss. After all jps did start out as a cable company so it makes sense.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 21, 2019)

Roasty said:


> Yep. The bass was what sealed the deal with the TC for me. It would be a pity if the LR can't deliver, at the very least be on par with the stock cable.
> 
> Just goes to show how good the stock cable actually is, and now makes me wonder to what level the top JPS superconducter cable can take the TC to..


Everything I’ve read about it is that it really changes the sound in a considerable way. Apparently, it can be a bit too warm at times.

I always cite Jay at Audiobacon, but he’s like the only person doing cable reviews I can find.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/audiob...superconductor-hp-cable-vs-stock-abyss-cable/

He likes the LR on like every headphone, so as always YMMV.

next question is, is the SC returnable? 

also, $2700 for 8 ft with a 4-pin. That’s pushing damn near the Lazuli Nirvana in price


----------



## matthewhypolite

Here's my thoughts in the SC when I got it:

"SC cable lifts a veil off of the music. The Spore 4 in comparison sounds recessed, held back, veiled. SC Cable introduces speed, precision, authority and impact. The music just sounds so much clearer, but not harsh. It just gives you more of what's there. It almost makes the abyss sound like it's plugged into a different amp. I was not expecting to hear such an immediate and obvious difference with the SC, but I could hear it straight away."

Too warm is not how I'd describe the cable.


----------



## spotforscott

matthewhypolite said:


> Here's my thoughts in the SC when I got it:
> 
> "SC cable lifts a veil off of the music. The Spore 4 in comparison sounds recessed, held back, veiled. SC Cable introduces speed, precision, authority and impact. The music just sounds so much clearer, but not harsh. It just gives you more of what's there. It almost makes the abyss sound like it's plugged into a different amp. I was not expecting to hear such an immediate and obvious difference with the SC, but I could hear it straight away."
> 
> Too warm is not how I'd describe the cable.


I agree with your description and would add that the mid-range is much more musically engaging with more of a palpable and intimate presence


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 21, 2019)

matthewhypolite said:


> Here's my thoughts in the SC when I got it:
> 
> "SC cable lifts a veil off of the music. The Spore 4 in comparison sounds recessed, held back, veiled. SC Cable introduces speed, precision, authority and impact. The music just sounds so much clearer, but not harsh. It just gives you more of what's there. It almost makes the abyss sound like it's plugged into a different amp. I was not expecting to hear such an immediate and obvious difference with the SC, but I could hear it straight away."
> 
> Too warm is not how I'd describe the cable.



I see you have the Utopias and Phis and a WA33 EE (I’m jealous, with my standard edition) too. What cables are you using for the Utopias with the WA33? 

Also, what cables are you currently using for the TCs and with the WA33?  The SCs?  I’m very curious, as I remember reading you TOTL comparison in the past and thought it was well done


----------



## Roasty

I configured a superconductor cable for fun.. 10ft/3m length 4 pin xlr came up to USD2990 hahaha oh man I don't think I can bring myself to fork out that much on a cable..


----------



## matthewhypolite

Ciggavelli said:


> I see you have the Utopias and Phis and a WA33 EE (I’m jealous, with my standard edition) too. What cables are you using for the Utopias with the WA33?
> 
> Also, what cables are you currently using for the TCs and with the WA33?  The SCs?  I’m very curious, as I remember reading you TOTL comparison in the past and thought it was well done



I use the same cables on all my headphones utilizing adaptor kits from DHC. 

I had a spore4 adaptor on my utopia, but I recently received an ultra short (removing the spore4 aspect) so now I can essentially run my utopia straight from the SC, have not tested just yet though. I but I have run the SC on the Susvara, I like it mroe than the spore on those cans as well as TC.

Let me take a couple photos of the adaptors so send. Give me 5 mins.


----------



## spotforscott

Roasty said:


> I configured a superconductor cable for fun.. 10ft/3m length 4 pin xlr came up to USD2990 hahaha oh man I don't think I can bring myself to fork out that much on a cable..



I don't think about it as paying that much for a cable, I see it as paying for an upgrade to the TC. I know i am talking semantics but truthfully, THIS cable makes a BIG difference, it is not subtle...


----------



## Roasty

spotforscott said:


> I don't think about it as paying that much for a cable, I see it as paying for an upgrade to the TC. I know i am talking semantics but truthfully, THIS cable makes a BIG difference, it is not subtle...



I know it's subjective, but if you could put a percentage improvement the SC cable brings.. What would it be? 10, 20 percent? Or more?


----------



## matthewhypolite

spotforscott said:


> I don't think about it as paying that much for a cable, I see it as paying for an upgrade to the TC. I know i am talking semantics but truthfully, THIS cable makes a BIG difference, it is not subtle...



Cable upgrade should come after you have a decent dac and amp, and the cable upgrade in my experience usually makes the least difference, but yes, the SC cable was not like a typical cable change. i wont say a "BIG" difference, but comparatively to other cables, i guess you can say that.

Here's the photos:
I used the spore4 extension adaptors before, as i was running a spore4 cable, but since getting the SC, i wanted to remove all spore4 bits to ensure i heard just the SC cable and nothing else, so i ordered some UltraShorts at the time of purchase of the TC, it took almost a year to get them lol, but i finally got them maybe a week ago.
So now i can get SC->Utopia/Susvara essentially direct now.

Ultra Short Adapters:
(Hifiman, Focal, Senn)


    

Spore4 Extension Adapters: (i have a pair of those for the susvaras and denons as well)

 

And i also recently added the roon nucleus+ to my setup, in short, it made my music cleaner and allowed the dynamics to shine more.


----------



## spotforscott

Roasty said:


> I know it's subjective, but if you could put a percentage improvement the SC cable brings.. What would it be? 10, 20 percent? Or more?


Yeah, tough to put a percentage on it. Let me put it this way, its impact was at least as great as the TC upgrade. Put another way, when I got the SC, I owned the Phi and I was seriously considering a switch to another headphone because I did not like the thin midrange and lack of musical weight that I was hearing with the standard cable. The SC changed all of that. The TC upgrade just added even more goodness to the equation. I know Jay commented about the SC almost having too much warmth - sorry, totally disagree with that. In my books, it's perfect from the lowest FR to the highest but the midrange is where you really hit "pay dirt" with the SC. As with all of this stuff, YMMV.


----------



## jlbrach

and yet there are people who argue there is no difference between any cables


----------



## matthewhypolite

Roasty said:


> I know it's subjective, but if you could put a percentage improvement the SC cable brings.. What would it be? 10, 20 percent? Or more?



hmmm, that's hard to say, but i'd put it this way. It was about as much improvement as moving from Phi to CC. (Definitely not a 20% improvement  to my ears, but i'll have to think if i can put an actual number on it).
If you like the TC sound, the SC is going to make that better lol, if you dont like the TC sound, the SC cable is not going to make you magically like it. Hope that helps.


----------



## matthewhypolite

spotforscott said:


> Yeah, tough to put a percentage on it. Let me put it this way, its impact was at least as great as the TC upgrade. Put another way, when I got the SC, I owned the Phi and I was seriously considering a switch to another headphone because I did not like the thin midrange and lack of musical weight that I was hearing with the standard cable. The SC changed all of that. The TC upgrade just added even more goodness to the equation. I know Jay commented about the SC almost having too much warmth - sorry, totally disagree with that. In my books, it's perfect from the lowest FR to the highest but the midrange is where you really hit "pay dirt" with the SC. As with all of this stuff, YMMV.



man our thoughts keep aligning perfectly, i just replied then saw this.


----------



## spotforscott

jlbrach said:


> and yet there are people who argue there is no difference between any cables



I know, eh? It's a crazy hobby. The more resolving your equipment is, the more you hear differences. Mitigating noise is also a critical factor to hearing differences.


----------



## matthewhypolite

jlbrach said:


> and yet there are people who argue there is no difference between any cables



There are also ppl who argue they can hear no improvement in moving from a HD650 to an Abyss.... 
Everything is relative.


----------



## jlbrach

very true...I have come to believe as much as anything peoples hearing ability determines what people like or dont like and what subtle differences they can hear....if your hearing is shot a cable aint gonna make much difference....


----------



## matthewhypolite

spotforscott said:


> I know, eh? It's a crazy hobby. The more resolving your equipment is, the more you hear differences. Mitigating noise is also a critical factor to hearing differences.



Agreed, which is why i advise making sure you have at least a good dac and amp before worrying about cables. You'll appreciate a good cable more if you have good gear, if your gear is not that great, a 2000$+ cable aint going to change it, that money is better spent behind better gear first.


----------



## attmci

matthewhypolite said:


> There are also ppl who argue they can hear no improvement in moving from a HD650 to an Abyss....
> Everything is relative.


Who?


----------



## matthewhypolite

attmci said:


> Who?



In this very thread I believe lol, I try not to think about it, causes me physical pain


----------



## Roasty

matthewhypolite said:


> And i also recently added the roon nucleus+ to my setup, in short, it made my music cleaner and allowed the dynamics to shine more.



I'm using an Intel NUC8i7BEH to Matrix Audio MQA x-sabre pro to WA22. 

Do u think a dedicated roon nucleus will be a worthwhile upgrade?


----------



## lambdastorm (Oct 21, 2019)

After buying and selling the 007s 3 times, I recently reacquired a 007, a 70XXX mk1 to be exact. Just like I expected, it doesn't hold a candle to abyss, dynamics, detail retrieval and instrument separation are all clearly inferior. But what keeps me coming back to the 007s is that it has this uncanny ability to not fatigue me even after 5 hours. I normally don't do long listening sessions, but when I do, I can always count on e'stats.

All the planars I've bought so far, namely the Abyss, D8000, Verum, HE6, HE5LE, LCD2, tires me up after a certain time period. Abyss is the least offensive of the bunch, but even then I have to take it off every 3 hours and give my ears some fresh air. Not so with the 007. I can wear it for 6 hours with zero ear pain or discomfort. That 'refreshing' feeling you get in your ears when you take off a headphone is somehow absent on the 007s. I wonder why. I've also owned other 'stats and they exhibit similar characteristics. Fatigue-free seems to be a stats' specialty.


----------



## tholt

Roasty said:


> I'm using an Intel NUC8i7BEH to Matrix Audio MQA x-sabre pro to WA22.
> 
> Do u think a dedicated roon nucleus will be a worthwhile upgrade?


If by WA22 you mean Woo Audio WA22 v1 (haven't heard v2 with Abyss), you would do much better spending on a better amp than a new server. IMO



lambdastorm said:


> But what keeps me coming back to the 007s is that it has this uncanny ability to not fatigue me even after 5 hours.



The 007s are just warm and inviting. There are zero offenses committed. I had the mkII and each listening session was like slipping on a comfortable flannel. It's a totally non-fatiguing, intimate sound and perhaps one of the best headphones for that while still checking off the audiophile boxes. On the downside, it can also come off as a bit slow and rounded. I eventually just got bored with them. I can see their place among a collection, though.


----------



## Roasty

tholt said:


> If by WA22 you mean Woo Audio WA22 v1 (haven't heard v2 with Abyss), you would do much better spending on a better amp than a new server. IMO
> 
> The 007s are just warm and inviting. There are zero offenses committed. I had the mkII and each listening session was like slipping on a comfortable flannel. It's a totally non-fatiguing, intimate sound and perhaps one of the best headphones for that while still checking off the audiophile boxes. On the downside, it can also come off as a bit slow and rounded. I eventually just got bored with them. I can see their place among a collection, though.



I'm using the Wooaudio 22 gen 2. I also use the abyss with hpa4 on occasion. Curious as to what amp upgrade u had in mind?


----------



## tholt

Roasty said:


> I'm using the Wooaudio 22 gen 2. I also use the abyss with hpa4 on occasion. Curious as to what amp upgrade u had in mind?



Haven't heard the v2 but supposedly it has more power than the v1, so maybe it sounds better. Nothing in particular, just that I didn't think the v1 was a good match for the 1266.


----------



## lambdastorm

tholt said:


> If by WA22 you mean Woo Audio WA22 v1 (haven't heard v2 with Abyss), you would do much better spending on a better amp than a new server. IMO
> 
> 
> 
> The 007s are just warm and inviting. There are zero offenses committed. I had the mkII and each listening session was like slipping on a comfortable flannel. It's a totally non-fatiguing, intimate sound and perhaps one of the best headphones for that while still checking off the audiophile boxes. On the downside, it can also come off as a bit slow and rounded. I eventually just got bored with them. I can see their place among a collection, though.


I guess its that plus the fact that e'stats don't move much air. Planar and dynamics move a lot more air and have higher THD across the entire frequency band.

To me the 007 will always be just a 'headphone' headphone. I don't particularly like the sound quality, but its none-fatiguing nature alone has enough staying power.


----------



## attmci

matthewhypolite said:


> In this very thread I believe lol, I try not to think about it, causes me physical pain


I thought you made it up.


----------



## attmci

lambdastorm said:


> After buying and selling the 007s 3 times, I recently reacquired a 007, a 70XXX mk1 to be exact. Just like I expected, it doesn't hold a candle to abyss, dynamics, detail retrieval and instrument separation are all clearly inferior. But what keeps me coming back to the 007s is that it has this uncanny ability to not fatigue me even after 5 hours. I normally don't do long listening sessions, but when I do, I can always count on e'stats.
> 
> All the planars I've bought so far, namely the Abyss, D8000, Verum, HE6, HE5LE, LCD2, tires me up after a certain time period. Abyss is the least offensive of the bunch, but even then I have to take it off every 3 hours and give my ears some fresh air. Not so with the 007. I can wear it for 6 hours with zero ear pain or discomfort. That 'refreshing' feeling you get in your ears when you take off a headphone is somehow absent on the 007s. I wonder why. I've also owned other 'stats and they exhibit similar characteristics. Fatigue-free seems to be a stats' specialty.


Wow, 6hrs! Now way I can listen anything more than one hour without a break.


----------



## attmci

tholt said:


> Haven't heard the v2 but supposedly it has more power than the v1, so maybe it sounds better. Nothing in particular, just that I didn't think the v1 was a good match for the 1266.


Do you have a WA22? With those expensive tubes it can drive a 1266. I just don't want to spend $$ towards a wa33, and always prefer tube amps.


----------



## JLoud

The WA5le drives my 1266 Tc very well. While not a balanced amp it does have XLR inputs and 4 pin XLR headphone connection for convenience. I really enjoy it and swap back and forth with my GSX mk2.


----------



## ekfc63

Is anyone running the 1266 with an ALO Studio Six and can comment on compatibility?


----------



## tholt

attmci said:


> Do you have a WA22? With those expensive tubes it can drive a 1266. I just don't want to spend $$ towards a wa33, and always prefer tube amps.



I had the WA22 v1 with a ton of different tube options. Always used 7236 tubes to max out power and ran it fully balanced (in/out). It _drove_ the 1266, yes. But it never sounded that good. I don't think it had enough power. Or maybe it was a synergy thing, IDK. Bottom line it sounded thin and bass-lacking. If you're running a v1, you're just not hearing what the Abyss is capable of.

I've heard (directly from Jack Wu even) that the v2 has more power than the v1 and is a better match for the 1266. But haven't personally heard it to verify that claim.


----------



## attmci (Oct 22, 2019)

tholt said:


> I had the WA22 v1 with a ton of different tube options. Always used 7236 tubes to max out power and ran it fully balanced (in/out). It _drove_ the 1266, yes. But it never sounded that good. I don't think it had enough power. Or maybe it was a synergy thing, IDK. Bottom line it sounded thin and bass-lacking. If you're running a v1, you're just not hearing what the Abyss is capable of.
> 
> I've heard (directly from Jack Wu even) that the v2 has more power than the v1 and is a better match for the 1266. But haven't personally heard it to verify that claim.


I don't think the 7236 is a good match. I always use a 5998 clear-top which is very close to a 421A. Using a pair of ECC35 and another pair of no-name tubes, I am satisfied. A decent DAC and rectifier tube (422a) may have helped too.
But that's just me.


----------



## tholt

@attmci if you like it that's all that matters.


----------



## matthewhypolite

attmci said:


> I thought you made it up.



Unfortunately no. Very really. there are even those that say they hear no audible difference in driving the abyss from an iphone, vs an amp....


----------



## attmci

jlbrach said:


> very true...I have come to believe as much as anything peoples hearing ability determines what people like or dont like and what subtle differences they can hear....if your hearing is shot a cable aint gonna make much difference....


When you plan to list your TC for sale? JK


----------



## jlbrach

Not anytime soon it is a keeper


----------



## attmci

jlbrach said:


> Not anytime soon it is a keeper


Very impressive choice!


----------



## Ciggavelli

I'm not sure if you all listen to death metal, but this album right here sounds amazing on the TCs with proper amplification.  So much speed, texture, and power to the bass.  It's a great song to really test out your equipment as well, as on some of my older tubes, the double bass blended together and it just sounded like a blob of blah.  But it sounds amazing right now:.  Check it out, if only to test out your equipment


----------



## Roasty

After about 16 hrs of music through the lazuli reference.. I can barely discern any difference in the bass from the stock cable, but up top the LR has become surprisingly bright..lol.. The breaking in continues...


----------



## ra990

Roasty said:


> After about 16 hrs of music through the lazuli reference.. I can barely discern any difference in the bass from the stock cable, but up top the LR has become surprisingly bright..lol.. The breaking in continues...


I'm not sure if it's the cable breaking in or our brains adapting, but the LR was my preferred cable with the Phi TC. I would switch between it and the stock pretty frequently and always preferred the warmth it brought over the stock cable.


----------



## Roasty

Ciggavelli said:


> I'm not sure if you all listen to death metal, but this album right here sounds amazing on the TCs with proper amplification.  So much speed, texture, and power to the bass.  It's a great song to really test out your equipment as well, as on some of my older tubes, the double bass blended together and it just sounded like a blob of blah.  But it sounds amazing right now:.  Check it out, if only to test out your equipment



Wow haha interesting that there are people who listen to stuff like this routinely..

But you are right. It was an absolute mess in my car (which I thought had a decent system). But bass beats sounded distinct on the TC.


----------



## ekfc63

ra990 said:


> I'm not sure if it's the cable breaking in or our brains adapting, but the LR was my preferred cable with the Phi TC. I would switch between it and the stock pretty frequently and always preferred the warmth it brought over the stock cable.



I”m glad you said that because I have one on the way for my TCs


----------



## Roasty

ra990 said:


> I'm not sure if it's the cable breaking in or our brains adapting, but the LR was my preferred cable with the Phi TC. I would switch between it and the stock pretty frequently and always preferred the warmth it brought over the stock cable.



That's good news to me man. Roughly how long before that warmth kicked in?


----------



## ra990

Roasty said:


> That's good news to me man. Roughly how long before that warmth kicked in?


Not sure. My cable was previously used, so already broken in.


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> That's good news to me man. Roughly how long before that warmth kicked in?


There are 2 rules for guaranteed success in life. Rule #1: dont tell people everything you know...

Shall we follow your rule?


----------



## GU1DO

attmci said:


> There are 2 rules for guaranteed success in life. Rule #1: dont tell people everything you know...
> 
> Shall we follow your rule?


----------



## Roasty

I need to change my sig..


----------



## simorag (Oct 26, 2019)

After several months of home auditioning, listening sessions at shops and fellow audiophiles homes, I finally selected the amp for my AB-1266 _and_ loudspeakers 

It is the Riviera Labs AIC-10, a hybrid integrated amplifier operating in pure class A with zero global feedback,  using an ECC82 tube in the preamp section.
It is very conservatively rated at 10W (according to a few reviews I read it should be capable of 30W at <1% distortion). It has headphones out plugs in the front and loudspeaker taps on the rear, and three RCA inlets. Its very compact form factor and relatively understated appearance (actually it exudes high-end craftmanship in the flesh, much more than what pictures show) hide 15kg of goodness, mostly due to the CNC machined frame and hand made transformer.







II fell in love with this amp when I had it at home for a couple of days in the summer, but could not justify the investment on a new item (its most current incarnation lists for an intimidating 15k ), and used ones seemed unlikely to find, so I kept searching for alternatives.

The memory of its weighty, full tonality, detail retrieval and harmonics richness haunted me over the following auditions of the other amps, so when recently the chance came of getting an used one in as-new conditions at a (very relatively) decent price I could not resist, and I decided to pull the trigger.

I have received it a week ago and I am still in the experimentation stage with tube rolling (the AIC-10 is surprisingly sensitive to the 'character' of the ECC82/12AU7 tube chosen), but I am very happy with my purchase.





To my ears, the AIC-10 combines the best virtues of the tube and SS amps I tried. It has the earthy tone, midrange density, harmonics euphoria, treble liquidity I found in very good tube amps, yet the grunt, bass control, transparency and soundstage extension of very powerful solid state speaker amplifiers.
I am currently pairing it with a vintage (1957) Mullard CV491 NOS tube, which provides a emotional touch to the midrange and makes vocals especially sound palpably real and fleshy.

To put it perspective, below you find a table with the ratings I have given to the amplifiers I tried over the last months. The light grey columns are where I listened in a setup nearly identical to mine, but only for a few hours, while the dark grey ones are shops / friends homes auditioning where the upstream chain to the amp / AB-1266 was different from mine (hence not very reliable). White columns relate to extensive listening at home. 10 does not mean 'perfect', but 'best' among the amplifiers listed.
Of course, this ranking is very much specific to my system, subjective sound and musical genres preferences, YMMV.





I plan to write a full review of this amplifier in the next weeks as I come to know it better, and once the honeymoon stage is over.

Currently listening to this, close to getting tears to my eyes


----------



## ray-dude

Outstanding write up, thank you!  I haven’t had a chance to hear the TCs direct from DAVE, but I am very pleasantly surprised that DAVE direct stacked up so well (also pleasantly surprised that the Riviera does so well on the transparency side)

Any feedback on using it with speakers?


----------



## cj3209 (Oct 26, 2019)

simorag said:


> After several months of home auditioning, listening sessions at shops and fellow audiophiles homes, I finally selected the amp for my AB-1266 _and_ loudspeakers
> 
> It is the Riviera Labs AIC-10, a hybrid integrated amplifier operating in pure class A with zero global feedback,  using an ECC82 tube in the preamp section.
> It is very conservatively rated at 10W (according to a few reviews I read it should be capable of 30W at <1% distortion). It has headphones out plugs in the front and loudspeaker taps on the rear, and three RCA inlets. Its very compact form factor and relatively understated appearance (actually it exudes high-end craftmanship in the flesh, much more than what pictures show) hide 15kg of goodness, mostly due to the CNC machined frame and hand made transformer.
> ...


Forgive my noobness on this subject but it looks like you are using the headphone out of an integrated amp, correct?  If so, my understanding is that while the headphone outs are connected to the speaker outs, the manufacturer may add resistors, etc. to allow better headphone usage, ie., the headphone outs tend to be an afterthought for many companies.  Have you tried connecting directly to the speaker outs of this amp?  I'm guessing that that would sound even better.

Amp looks very nice, btw.


----------



## tholt

@simorag gorgeous amp. Congrats


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> I need to change my sig..


Way too late. LOL


----------



## simorag (Oct 26, 2019)

ray-dude said:


> Outstanding write up, thank you! I haven’t had a chance to hear the TCs direct from DAVE, but I am very pleasantly surprised that DAVE direct stacked up so well (also pleasantly surprised that the Riviera does so well on the transparency side)
> 
> Any feedback on using it with speakers?



Yeah, DAVE (mandatorily with M Scaler) revealed as tougher to beat compared with what I thought in the beginning of my 'ultimate' amp quest.

When I had the Formula S / Powerman - a very good match for the AB-1266, indeed - I was switching from DAVE direct to the amp depending on music types, and most often for large scale symphonic works where the added value from the amp compensated the - slight, yet audible - loss of transparency, finesse and holographic imaging.

It seems that for my sensitivity, tastes, listening levels and music preferences (mostly acoustic) the TC out of the DAVE already reach most of their potential.

Slightly colored amps like the Enyo or - to a less extent - the AIC-10 / Mullard add that amount of thickness and midrange euphony that make me feel more connected with, or engaged by, the musical message and the musicians delivering it. More goosebumps = more fun 

A for speakers, I have a pair of Spendor LS3/5A at the moment, which I was willing to upgrade to larger and way more sensitive ones. Actually, the AIC-10 surprised me there, as it revealed itself as able to drive these low sensitivity tiny miracle boxes much better than I thought, and just fine for my present needs (30 sqm room, low-ish loudness levels due to wife / neighbors constraints).
My speaker upgrade can wait more, as my wallet recovers 



cj3209 said:


> Forgive my noobness on this subject but it looks like you are using the headphone out of an integrated amp, correct? If so, my understanding is that while the headphone outs are connected to the speaker outs, the manufacturer may add resistors, etc. to allow better headphone usage, ie., the headphone outs tend to be an afterthought for many companies. Have you tried connecting directly to the speaker outs of this amp? I'm guessing that that would sound even better.



The AIC-10 is designed primarily as a headphone amp, to which the loudspeaker output is added for versatility. The signal path is very similar among the two outputs, with a variable attenuation depending on the use (low sensitivity hp, high sensitivity hp, speakers).
I tried running the AB-1266 directly from the speaker taps, and the sound becomes slightly larger and more dynamic, yet possibly a tiny bit less smooth / refined.
I know people preferring the Susvara out of the AIC-10 speaker taps, though.



tholt said:


> @simorag gorgeous amp. Congrats



Thanks


----------



## astrostar59 (Oct 26, 2019)

Great write up and thanks for sharing with everyone. I have thoroughly enjoyed your journey, and mirror some of your needs and goals getting to your destination setup. I think you have made a good choice. I notice you rate the 600i pretty highly in your table, especially on soundstage and transparency, bass extension and macro dynamics. I agree with that.

Having heard quite a few DACs v the Aries Cerat DAC, I can point to a solid and full flavour from my DAC, and a different sonic flavour to other DACs. In other words, IMO the chain in any system is a sum of the parts, and each one has to compliment. Based on your assessment of the Riviera I don't think it would match as well with my DAC front end.

I also think, again IMO, that tubes somewhere in the chain are good, at this level. Not that SS right through isn't good or can't ever work, but tubes do something special, especially with the smaller signals at the source or the input stage an amplifier.


----------



## Roasty

Placed an order for a moon audio silver dragon. 10ft length came up to usd550 and then additional 20 buck discount for overseas purchase. 

I've had good experience with the silver dragon with my shure 846 and senn 650, and the black dragon for the senn 660s.

The only review for their abyss cable on their website says a lot of good things. For the price, figured I'd give it a try..


----------



## cj3209 (Oct 26, 2019)

Roasty said:


> Placed an order for a moon audio silver dragon. 10ft length came up to usd550 and then additional 20 buck discount for overseas purchase.
> 
> I've had good experience with the silver dragon with my shure 846 and senn 650, and the black dragon for the senn 660s.
> 
> The only review for their abyss cable on their website says a lot of good things. For the price, figured I'd give it a try..


Thought I read that a good copper cable was the preferred material rather than silver for the 1266s but I would be interested in your review.

In fact, I ordered a Forza Audioworks Noir Hybrid HPC cable myself to try out.  I can't stand how the 'regular' 1266 cables get all tangled up - although they sound good.  At $2K, the Superconductor cable isn't a real option for me unless I get to try it out or at substantial discount in the used market.


----------



## Roasty (Oct 27, 2019)

cj3209 said:


> Thought I read that a good copper cable was the preferred material rather than silver for the 1266s but I would be interested in your review.
> 
> In fact, I ordered a Forza Audioworks Noir Hybrid HPC myself to try out.  I can't stand how the 'regular' 1266 cables get all tangled up - although they sound good.



That's what I read too.
I'm still breaking in the Danacable. But so far, am still preferring the stock abyss cable.. Just that little bit more of air, upper end sparkle, and low end thump from the stock cable. It's really a good cable. Maybe just lacking a little in the mids. Would be nice if there was a bit more heft and weight in the mids.


----------



## llamaluv

Roasty said:


> I'm still breaking on the Danacable. But so far, am still preferring the stock abyss cable.. Just that little bit more of air, upper end sparkle, and low end thump from the stock cable. It's really a good cable. Maybe just lacking a little in the mids. Would be nice if there was a bit more heft and weight in the mids.



I agree, the Abyss stock cable is surprisingly respect-worthy (or maybe it shouldn't be a surprise; but anyway). Sound-wise, it's the least-lacking stock cable of any flagship headphone I've owned. Very lively, dynamic, and resolving. The Phi was also the only high-end headphone I've had where I did not settle on any third-party cable as a replacement. 

I have a TC on the way, and I think this time around I'm going to try avoid cable rolling for a little while (famous last words, though). I have a few nice cables that are either going unutilized (Neotech 23-gauge solid core silver) or am trying to sell (Lazuli Ultra, Lavricables Grand Silver), and it would be simple enough to get them reterminated, but knowing what I do about their inherent sound and that of the stock Abyss cable, I'm not sure how compelled I'll feel to try any of them out with the TC.

As for ergonomics (since this comes up a lot), doing something this simple was enough for me to be satisfied/no longer annoyed:


llamaluv said:


> Velcro strip cable mod. Should only be attempted by those with advanced arts-and-crafts skills.


----------



## lambdastorm (Oct 27, 2019)

What's most surprisng about the stock cable is that it projects a huge sound yet the conductors inside are much thinner than any after-market cables. I've demo'ed the Lazuli extensively for 2 weeks, and for a cable that thick you would think it's got more bass and better extension, but no. Not only is the bass more nimble and quick on the stock cable, it also punches harder. I consider the stock cable part of the Abyss just as flat cable is a part of STAX. We wouldn't know what a 009 would sound like with other cables, but we definitely know Abyss wouldn't sound as powerful with most other after-market cables. These are not a throwaway after thought like many stock cables other headphones come with. JPS obviously put a lot of thought into this cable when they're designing it, cuz back in 2013 its stated on the website that the stock cable is already the best there is.


----------



## Roasty

If stock is so good already.. And jps super conductor cable is supposedly better.. I fear for my wallet. Again.


----------



## attmci

llamaluv said:


> I agree, the Abyss stock cable is surprisingly respect-worthy (or maybe it shouldn't be a surprise; but anyway). Sound-wise, it's the least-lacking stock cable of any flagship headphone I've owned. Very lively, dynamic, and resolving. The Phi was also the only high-end headphone I've had where I did not settle on any third-party cable as a replacement.
> 
> I have a TC on the way, and I think this time around I'm going to try avoid cable rolling for a little while (famous last words, though). I have a few nice cables that are either going unutilized (Neotech 23-gauge solid core silver) or am trying to sell (Lazuli Ultra, Lavricables Grand Silver), and it would be simple enough to get them reterminated, but knowing what I do about their inherent sound and that of the stock Abyss cable, I'm not sure how compelled I'll feel to try any of them out with the TC.
> 
> As for ergonomics (since this comes up a lot), doing something this simple was enough for me to be satisfied/no longer annoyed:



Are there any difference between the lite 4-pin XLR and 3-pin XLR cable?


----------



## cj3209 (Oct 27, 2019)

Roasty said:


> If stock is so good already.. And jps super conductor cable is supposedly better.. I fear for my wallet. Again.


$5K for a great DAC, ok.

$5K for a great headphone amp, ok.

$5K for a great pair of speakers, ok.

$5K for a great sounding tube amp, ok.

$5K for an Abyss Headphone, ok.

$2K for a cable...??  I can't get over that...arggg...


----------



## Roasty

cj3209 said:


> $5K for a great DAC, ok.
> 
> $5K for a great headphone amp, ok.
> 
> ...



I know right... I have exactly the same sentiment. Worse still the length I want is an extra 1k.

Am trying to arrange a home demo with the jps superconductor cable.. Will share my thoughts if the demo materialises.


----------



## attmci (Oct 27, 2019)

Roasty said:


> I know right... I have exactly the same sentiment. Worse still the length I want is an extra 1k.
> 
> Am trying to arrange a home demo with the jps superconductor cable.. Will share my thoughts if the demo materialises.



Nothing.


----------



## cj3209 (Oct 27, 2019)

DELETED.


----------



## Roasty

attmci said:


> You may have to upgrade all those power,xlr, usb cables to >>$2000/foot ones plus a nice audiophile fuse first before the demo.
> 
> Forgot the I2S cable. That's very important too.



How did u get to that?


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> How did u get to that?


I knew someone did. Not me.


----------



## matthewhypolite

cj3209 said:


> DELETED.


Already read, and no, it doesn't.


----------



## attmci

matthewhypolite said:


> Already read, and no, it doesn't.


----------



## cj3209 (Oct 27, 2019)

matthewhypolite said:


> Already read, and no, it doesn't.


LOL...


----------



## mulder01

cj3209 said:


> $5K for a great DAC, ok.
> 
> $5K for a great headphone amp, ok.
> 
> ...


$5k for great speakers or headphones I agree with.  The rest really doesn't have to cost that much.


----------



## astrostar59

How are you guys protecting your Abyss against dust? I have my other half making some covers for the panels, a kind of cloth 2 sided cover that slips over the 2 sides of each ear piece. I'll post some pic when done for your appraisal.


----------



## tholt

astrostar59 said:


> How are you guys protecting your Abyss against dust?



Is there a legitimate need to?


----------



## ekfc63

My 1266 TCs arrived today.  Looking forward to some time with them this evening


----------



## ekfc63

Ciggavelli said:


> I've been looking into this myself.  I think the best (and possibly only) option is to get a customizable Pelican Case.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Pelican-1450...ocphy=9027719&hvtargid=pla-435644386450&psc=1
> 
> I need to look into exact dimensions, etc., but it should work and be better than a traditional headphone case (my LCD2s had the pelican case, and it worked pretty well, aside from being big and awkward).



Did you ever move forward with this.?  If so, how did it work out?


----------



## JLoud

I picked up this case from Amazon and while kind of big it has plenty of room for cables and such.
*Monoprice Weatherproof/Shockproof Hard Case - Black IP67 Level dust and Water Protection up to 1 Meter Depth with Customizable Foam, 19" x 16" x 8"*
*
*


----------



## Ciggavelli

ekfc63 said:


> Did you ever move forward with this.?  If so, how did it work out?


No, I haven’t yet. I’m still contemplating it though. However, I’m not sure how often I would take the TCs with me on trips. 

I need some Diana Phis for travel


----------



## CreditingKarma

astrostar59 said:


> How are you guys protecting your Abyss against dust? I have my other half making some covers for the panels, a kind of cloth 2 sided cover that slips over the 2 sides of each ear piece. I'll post some pic when done for your appraisal.




I recomend the noble Khan for travel. Great resolution and it is similar to the TC in signature imo .


----------



## ekfc63 (Oct 30, 2019)

JLoud said:


> I picked up this case from Amazon and while kind of big it has plenty of room for cables and such.
> *Monoprice Weatherproof/Shockproof Hard Case - Black IP67 Level dust and Water Protection up to 1 Meter Depth with Customizable Foam, 19" x 16" x 8"
> *





Ciggavelli said:


> No, I haven’t yet. I’m still contemplating it though. However, I’m not sure how often I would take the TCs with me on trips.
> 
> I need some Diana Phis for travel



I found this one which seems to be a good fit and has pick foam:

Nanuk 920
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B003JH7ZOA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

However, I decided against it for now since I'd been using this wine tote for my Utopias and the 1266s fit fine:
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B076F4NKFJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The dividers are removable and it has numerous pockets for cables etc, The only downside is that the interior is not soft and fluffy.


----------



## ekfc63

Just wondering if there is a frequency response chart for the TC.  I searched around to no avail.


----------



## joseph69

llamaluv said:


> I have a TC on the way


Congratulations on the incoming TC!


----------



## JLoud

You are definitely in for a treat. Notice how I tied that in with the date. Sometimes I am too clever for my own good.


----------



## mulder01

ekfc63 said:


> Just wondering if there is a frequency response chart for the TC.  I searched around to no avail.


I think the frequency response varies too much with fit.  If you wear the 1266 with a full seal (how they would usually be tested), they lose their magic.


----------



## Roasty (Nov 1, 2019)

I sent back the Danacable LR yesterday. After burning in over several days, and doing quick A/B comparisons with the stock cable.. It just felt like.. How do I put this.. Like it was missing about 2 to 3 percent off the top and 5 percent from the bottom.. For the price, I just couldn't justify keeping it.

I received a Moon Audio Silver Dragon today. I ordered a 10ft length (adding a 5ft length cost an extra 75 bucks which I think is very reasonable considering what other companies are charging for additional length).

Came in a Fedex soft envelope, in a zip loc bag (as did all my previous moon audio cables/adaptors). Nothing fancy. And I'm not actually complaining about it..

Ok the Furutech XLR plug is super solid and hefty and the mini 4 pin Furutech connectors are built so well too! Slides in like a knife thru warm butter.. Really happy with the included connectors/plug.

I've only listened to it for about an hour or so and did some quick a/b as well, and I actually prefer the Silver Dragon over the stock cable. There is this very subtle reverb at the low low end which makes deep bass sound so good and makes it sound like it extends even lower than the stock cable. But it does not lose out on punchiness either. Also, I find there is a bit more meat/thickness in the mids to midbass region, giving the music overall more body. Up top it sounds very similar to stock, and I'm just glad it didn't take away any sparkle/clarity.

I'm going to run in these cables over the next few days, but based on these early impressions, I'm pretty confident they are a keeper.

Seems like Moon Audio is not as talked about or mentioned these days. Personally, I find that quite odd, considering I did very much enjoy their cables with my other headphones..


----------



## tholt

@Roasty great information, thanks. Appreciate your impressions, sounds like the Moon Dragon fits my preferred sonic profile. I can't imagine burn in would change your mind about them. Is there a trial period offered?


----------



## honeyjjack

Ive been noticing more cable talk for the abyss so im here to contribute. I have an order of the hr4 signature flagship(14 wires) from silverfi coming in a week or so. Silverfi made the most natural sounding cables ive heard for iems and i thought silverfi's slighly warm and sweet house sound might complement the abyss well. If anyone is interested, ill share pics and initial impressions. I wish i could compare them to LR, silver dragon, and dhc for the community, but since the hr4 cost me more than the abyss, im broke and will have to wait a bit till my next cable purchase.


----------



## Roasty

tholt said:


> @Roasty great information, thanks. Appreciate your impressions, sounds like the Moon Dragon fits my preferred sonic profile. I can't imagine burn in would change your mind about them. Is there a trial period offered?



I'm not sure if there is a trial period. U can try write in to Drew. The guys at Moon are really helpful.


----------



## Roasty

honeyjjack said:


> Ive been noticing more cable talk for the abyss so im here to contribute. I have an order of the hr4 signature flagship(14 wires) from silverfi coming in a week or so. Silverfi made the most natural sounding cables ive heard for iems and i thought silverfi's slighly warm and sweet house sound might complement the abyss well. If anyone is interested, ill share pics and initial impressions. I wish i could compare them to LR, silver dragon, and dhc for the community, but since the hr4 cost me more than the abyss, im broke and will have to wait a bit till my next cable purchase.



Wow! Congrats in advance. I've not heard a Silverfi cable before. If they cost more than the abyss.. I can only hope to imagine what it would sound like. Looking forward to your listening impressions.


----------



## Mikey99

I was in the  local headphone shop today and heard a rather unusual request from another customer. He really liked the AB1266, but wanted a “vegan” option - ie, no leather. The shop owner was going to see if he could do a mod, replacing the headband and pads.

Anyone ever heard of such a thing? Any ideas on how to do it?


----------



## FLTWS

Really? Buy some heavy duty vinyl / latex cleaning / working gloves and fabricate a headband and ear pads. One would need to do some custom cutting / gluing and sewing. Sounds like an uncomfortable, sticky,  sweat-fest but ...


----------



## jlbrach

beyond silly to tinker with the pads of such a high end product IMHO


----------



## Litlgi74

jlbrach said:


> beyond silly to tinker with the pads of such a high end product IMHO


Especially when you consider the cow has already been killed... Seems like a waste to not use it after the fact. Lol


----------



## attmci (Nov 2, 2019)

Mikey99 said:


> I was in the  local headphone shop today and heard a rather unusual request from another customer. He really liked the AB1266, but wanted a “vegan” option - ie, no leather. The shop owner was going to see if he could do a mod, replacing the headband and pads.
> 
> Anyone ever heard of such a thing? Any ideas on how to do it?


Easy, put a rubber between the pads and the ear, and pretend it's not there, it's not there............

BTW, someone please help this young lady, pls, she is so young


----------



## chimney189

Good day Abyss owners,
I've owned the Abyss Diana V2 for just over a month now. I honestly don't see myself ever selling them, but it's hard not to want to listen to the Abyss 1266.

Does anyone have a comparison of these? Also, does the headphone wobble on the head when moving?


Thanks!


----------



## mulder01

Mikey99 said:


> I was in the  local headphone shop today and heard a rather unusual request from another customer. He really liked the AB1266, but wanted a “vegan” option - ie, no leather. The shop owner was going to see if he could do a mod, replacing the headband and pads.
> 
> Anyone ever heard of such a thing? Any ideas on how to do it?


I believe Joe has made them as a special order before, but he didn't recommend them, and also, $$$.  A lot of research and development has gone into making the pads exactly as they are (the lastest pad revision is even an optional upgrade for owners of older models), so it would be silly to have a third party try out a mod.

I have had a cloth headband at one stage though (official) and I don't imagine that would effect the sound.


----------



## isquirrel

A long overdue system update:

Well its finally happened. As most of the regulars here know I love my valves and I honestly didn't think I could get any better sound than from my Woo 234's, I even tried the WA33 Elite but the 234's beat the WA33 out. I received about a month ago the relatively new MSB Dynamic HP Amp. Out of the box the soundstage went wider, the resolution increased noticeably and most importantly the Amp was mad foot tapping musically. However I couldn't play my Abyss as I lost the adapter needed for them to work with my DHC cables. Frustrating but being Solid State mean't I could leave the Amp playing 24/7 at least to get the burn in part done.

I eventually found the Abyss TC adapter and wow was it good to be listening to the Abyss TC's again. The Amp has a huge dynamic range 0-139 dB and the Abyss sound just spectacular, jaw dropping good. 

I didn't think I would ever say it but this Solid State Amp beats out my beloved 234's in every area. 

I only have one upgrade planned next which is to replace the Aurender W20 with a new server, the Taiko Extreme. I hope to have this by Christmas. 

Anyone interested in the Aurender W20 just PM me.


----------



## simorag

Here is a beautiful example of what makes a properly driven AB-1266 TC a special thing.

Immense headstage, plenty of dynamics, layering, almost speaker-like visceral impact (those tympani!) combined with very fine detail retrieval and nuanced timbre


----------



## FLTWS (Nov 3, 2019)

Yes it does. I have almost all of Ref. Recordings classical releases.


----------



## Litlgi74

simorag said:


> Here is a beautiful example of what makes a properly driven AB-1266 TC a special thing.
> 
> Immense headstage, plenty of dynamics, layering, almost speaker-like visceral impact (those tympani!) combined with very fine detail retrieval and nuanced timbre


And it's on Tidal!!!!

https://tidal.com/album/45719631


----------



## gonzalo1004es

In case anyone is interested, I'm selling this ADL-Furutech cable:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1-3-m-furutech-adl-abyss-cable.918509/

Thanks!


----------



## Roasty

isquirrel said:


> A long overdue system update:
> 
> Well its finally happened. As most of the regulars here know I love my valves and I honestly didn't think I could get any better sound than from my Woo 234's, I even tried the WA33 Elite but the 234's beat the WA33 out. I received about a month ago the relatively new MSB Dynamic HP Amp. Out of the box the soundstage went wider, the resolution increased noticeably and most importantly the Amp was mad foot tapping musically. However I couldn't play my Abyss as I lost the adapter needed for them to work with my DHC cables. Frustrating but being Solid State mean't I could leave the Amp playing 24/7 at least to get the burn in part done.
> 
> ...



That's some serious high end stuff.. I had to Google everything as I'd never heard of them before u posted that..

On a side note.. Am much preferring the 1266 with my wa22 over the hpa4. The tube amp seems to give it a more 3d feel and there is some edginess in the highs which seems to make it more "real". The hpa4 on the other hand, although detailed and clean, seems just a tad bit boring after a while.


----------



## Roasty

I get to try these out for a couple of days.. JPS superconductor cables. Looking forward to comparing with stock cable and the moon audio silver dragon. I'm secretly hoping I don't like these cables...


----------



## honeyjjack

Roasty said:


> I get to try these out for a couple of days.. JPS superconductor cables. Looking forward to comparing with stock cable and the moon audio silver dragon. I'm secretly hoping I don't like these cables...


Cant wait for your comparison.


----------



## Roasty (Nov 5, 2019)

so i had just under 3 hours of listening time last night after getting the kids to zzz. i have to give these cables back by Friday, but looking at my schedule, i probably dont have much more listening time with these. so do allow me to pen my thoughts despite a relatively short time of comparing cables.

I compared the stock cable, moon audio silver dragon, JPS superconductor. as i didnt have a dual XLR to single XLR adaptor cable, i had to do listening tests with my woo audio 22 amp rather than the benchmark hpa4. I only listened to a handful of songs, songs which i am familiar with. did quick cable swaps and a/b testings.

_the JPS cable is a detail monster._
i thought the abyss 1266 was detailed enough; the JPS improves on it further. and it does so effortlessly. tiny details in the background, which although audible with the stock and dragon, are brought out even more, without sounding obtrusive or disruptive.

eg
Evergreen by Yebba - there is this very faint hi-hat in the background from the R channel which goes "ts ts tsst, ts ts tsst ... ", it is definitely more apparent with the JPS.
Memories by Maroon 5 - when the music starts, you can hear the audience cheering, and there is this one guy who whistles out. the whistling sounds crisp and you can hear the variation in whistling volume so well with the JPS, and then it becomes a recognizable portion/detail of the song which seems almost included for a reason. Whereas with the stock and dragon, the whistling sounds slightly dull, and feels almost like something just heard in passing.
Gone by Charlie XCX - around the 40 second mark, there is a soft voice mirroring the main singer from the L channel. With the JPS, it sounds like there is a distinctly separate voice standing just next to the main singer, and you can hear her words clearly. with the stock and dragon, it seems like that background voice is just a closely knit shadow, with her words occasionally becoming obscured by the main singer.

_the JPS cable has a more even presentation and sweet sounding highs_
highs on the JPS seem to have a slightly reduced volume with regards to the rest of the music. i think this also in effect makes the bass and mids sound fuller; to achieve similar volumes of bass and mids with the stock and dragon, i had to turn up the volume knob just slightly, but this made the highs on those cables even louder giving it a more forward sounding presentation. the JPS cable sounds more even and balanced.

JPS the highs are not sibilant/harsh. good extension up top, without becoming bright. female vocals are a delight with these cables. they sound full and sweet.
dragon cable slightly edgy highs and not as smooth; i quite like this effect with rock music. female vocals in comparison sound slightly less meaty and almost a bit metallic.
i cant tell much difference between stock and dragon cable for highs.
with JPS, as mentioned earlier, the highs sound like they have 0.5-1 dB less than the dragon and i think this makes for a more even presentation and the bass and mids stand out a bit more. if you like a more fuller sound, the JPS cable will deliver. overall, mids sound pretty decent on all three cables though, so not much more to say here.

_?slightly better separation and soundstage with JPS_
there is just a tad bit more space between elements of music with the JPS. ever so slightly larger soundstage too. if i did not know i had swapped cables, i probably wouldnt have noticed. really struggling to make out any differences. in actual fact, could even be even stevens..

_bass_
amount JPS > dragon > stock
bass notes are just slightly more detailed and textured with the JPS.
bass notes hit as hard with JPS and dragon. stock hits less hard and less focused - eg when the "air hits your ears", with the stock, it seems like the bass note impacts on your whole outside ear but doesnt really travel through the ear canal, but with the JPS and dragon, you can feel the bass notes hitting directly onto your ear drum.

_ergonomics_
i think Abyss should put a nice sleeve on their cables to join up the two separate cables. it's probably not too expensive to do, but will really improve the ergonomics and end user experience. Otherwise, just resort to velcro or zipties.. 
stock cable is shiny and sticky.. stiff too.
silver dragon wins ergonomics for me; lightest of the three, single cable single XLR, does not tangle easily, easy to store.
JPS is like having two Danacables side by side.. massive and a little bit too heavy, and keeping in mind i tested the 1.2m version... nice XLR plugs and furutech connectors though.

in summary:
the stock cable is already very good. actually, sometimes ignorance is bliss, and i would likely be perfectly happy with the stock cable.
if you want a better cable in terms of ergonomics, without sacrificing anything on sound quality, and at the same time getting a bit more up top prat and down low bass impact, the silver dragon will do the job well. if you want a good cable for the abyss, without spending a large amount of money, the silver dragon will do the job well. i chose the silver dragon over the more expensive danacable lazuli reference because i preferred the sound it delivered.
if you want the best cable of the 3 mentioned above, and money is no object, JPS superconductor without question. it brings everything to the table, and then some.

again, these are my own thoughts on the cables i tested. disclaimer is everyone hears things differently. so, YMMV.

for myself, i will most likely just keep on with the Silver Dragon. If i had to put these down in percentages relative to the JPS.. then:
JPS cable 100% this cable extracts every single bit of information from the music and delivers it to you effortlessly, in a very pleasant and enjoyable way without sounding laid back
Silver Dragon 95%
Stock 90-92%

Having said that, for the configuration that i would have ordered it in, the JPS would have cost me USD 2990. that alone costs more than many of the individual components i own, and is for eg 500 bucks more than my WA22, and is just 5 bucks cheaper than my benchmark HPA4 amp. In contrast, the silver dragon set me back just over USD500. of course, if i end up winning the lottery, or if you just have the extra cash to spare, then JPS please!!

*I apologise for my lack of descriptors. I'm not very good with flowery language. I do hope I managed to get my thoughts through to you guys.


----------



## drew911d

Has anybody tried the new Manley Absolute with Abyss?  I tried at a mini con recently.  I had to set it to around 80% volume, but there was extra power if needed.  Sound was detailed and balanced as far as I could tell in the environment.  Clean and musical.  Would like to see other opinions.

Happy HP


----------



## Ciggavelli

I think I have to mod my headband. After like  2 hours of listening, the top of my head hurts. On the weekends I listen to music like 6 hours a day. So, what are you all doing to mod the headband?  I know some people were talking about it somewhere at sometime, but I’m not sure where. 

anybody have an good mods that they use? I’m assuming that they distribute the weight across the head, as opposed to that one point, but I could be wrong


----------



## matthewhypolite

Ciggavelli said:


> I think I have to mod my headband. After like  2 hours of listening, the top of my head hurts. On the weekends I listen to music like 6 hours a day. So, what are you all doing to mod the headband?  I know some people were talking about it somewhere at sometime, but I’m not sure where.
> 
> anybody have an good mods that they use? I’m assuming that they distribute the weight across the head, as opposed to that one point, but I could be wrong



Check my signature for my TOTL review, there's a mention of the mod and how to do it in there.

Actually, i just found the link for you from the review, here you go:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/totl-headphones-comparison.856079/#post-13616612

And yes, it distributes the weight.


----------



## GuyForkes

Ciggavelli said:


> I think I have to mod my headband. After like  2 hours of listening, the top of my head hurts. On the weekends I listen to music like 6 hours a day. So, what are you all doing to mod the headband?  I know some people were talking about it somewhere at sometime, but I’m not sure where.
> 
> anybody have an good mods that they use? I’m assuming that they distribute the weight across the head, as opposed to that one point, but I could be wrong



I replaced the headband with a ZMF pilot pad after it snapped. More comfortable and better at distributing weight.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Introducing our new company, StackZilla, specializing in small format racks and stands for personal audio gear...
https://stack-zilla.com

 ​


----------



## Roasty

https://www.amazon.com/HIFIMAN-4330601064-HiFiMan-HE-Adapter/dp/B00ARIAGTA

Is this OK to use with the abyss?


----------



## Olumm

Roasty said:


> https://www.amazon.com/HIFIMAN-4330601064-HiFiMan-HE-Adapter/dp/B00ARIAGTA
> 
> Is this OK to use with the abyss?



Yes! I use that adapter with my speaker amps And my OG 1266 no issues at all.


----------



## Roasty

Olumm said:


> Yes! I use that adapter with my speaker amps And my OG 1266 no issues at all.



Thanks man!


----------



## Delacaff

Joe Skubinski said:


> Introducing our new company, StackZilla, specializing in small format racks and stands for personal audio gear...
> https://stack-zilla.com
> 
> ​


Nice move Joe. And this is a great rack. I love it.


----------



## Delacaff

GuyForkes said:


> I replaced the headband with a ZMF pilot pad after it snapped. More comfortable and better at distributing weight.


Thanks for the tip. Just ordered mine.


----------



## sn0gl0be

GuyForkes said:


> I replaced the headband with a ZMF pilot pad after it snapped. More comfortable and better at distributing weight.



That’s an awesome idea. 
Though what did you do for the elastic chord (i presume that is what snapped)


----------



## Olumm (Nov 9, 2019)

Just for S&G’s I decided to try running my highly modified Bottlehead Crack as a preamp to my Emotiva A-100. Well, if this isn’t just the most wonderful thing I’ve heard out of my 1266 since I’ve owned them. What an absolute treat.

if anyone else has these items hanging around I would highly recommend giving it a go.


----------



## Olumm

Delacaff said:


> Thanks for the tip. Just ordered mine.



 
I went a little more ghetto with my headband fix by just ordering a $3 replacement pad for an HD598 from eBay. It works, but I have a pilot pad hanging around...I’ll have to give that a try.


----------



## Ciggavelli

GuyForkes said:


> I replaced the headband with a ZMF pilot pad after it snapped. More comfortable and better at distributing weight.


Nice!  I just ordered a pair now. I appreciate the suggestion


----------



## JLoud

As far as the Emotiva A-100 running the Abyss, I found it does just fine from the headphone jack. No need for a speaker adapter. Just remove the internal resistor or jumper, I can't remember which. Then full output power is available from headphone jack. And that is serious power. And nothing to degrade the sound.


----------



## GuyForkes

sn0gl0be said:


> That’s an awesome idea.
> Though what did you do for the elastic chord (i presume that is what snapped)



Just some of my wife's spare new hair ties
I used it cause it was black. You could of course find better elastic bands but this works for me.


----------



## sn0gl0be

GuyForkes said:


> Just some of my wife's spare new hair ties
> I used it cause it was black. You could of course find better elastic bands but this works for me.


Nice, ill give that a shot


----------



## attmci (Nov 12, 2019)

https://www.amazon.com/MERIWOOL-Pai...KV3ERN20MESQ6ZDJN&refRID=JY3KV3ERN20MESQ6ZDJN

You guys have to try this before you receive the pilot pad.

i think this also in effect makes the bass and mids sound fuller.


----------



## sn0gl0be

Haha, since we are trading DIY tricks. This is a combo of velcro strips and small rubber bands


----------



## sn0gl0be




----------



## FLTWS

attmci said:


> https://www.amazon.com/MERIWOOL-Pai...KV3ERN20MESQ6ZDJN&refRID=JY3KV3ERN20MESQ6ZDJN
> 
> You guys have to try this before you receive the pilot pad.
> 
> i think this also in effect makes the bass and mids sound fuller.



Does it work equally well with washed or unwashed socks?


----------



## cj3209

FLTWS said:


> Does it work equally well with washed or unwashed socks?


You guys deserve a sock on your head...

har har...


----------



## mulder01

At least if someone breaks into your house, they'll probably go straight past the DIY looking sock headphones not knowing their value...


----------



## CreditingKarma

mulder01 said:


> At least if someone breaks into your house, they'll probably go straight past the DIY looking sock headphones not knowing their value...



To be honest they will probably walk past all of our audio gear. Not many folks have any clue how much any of our gear costs.


----------



## mulder01

Possibly.  I still had my 1266 listed separately on my home and contents insurance.  (You're supposed to individually list any items over $2k).  I could sense the confusion on the other end of the phone line...


----------



## CreditingKarma

I need to make a call and add all of my Stereo equipment. That should be a pretty interesting call.


----------



## attmci

FLTWS said:


> Does it work equally well with washed or unwashed socks?


On a 100 scale:
No mod: 92
Washed: 94
Unwashed: 128

Give it a shot, man.


----------



## ekfc63

For those with the CC or TC ceramic coating how are you finding the durability?  Is the finish susceptible to scratches or chipping?


----------



## Roasty

ekfc63 said:


> For those with the CC or TC ceramic coating how are you finding the durability?  Is the finish susceptible to scratches or chipping?



I have the TC.. But I baby it. Seems pretty rugged and durable tho.. I really don't wanna find out if it scratches. 

Listening to Billie Ellish's album on the abyss is just so nice. Enjoying the layering and separation. Tight bass notes and electronic sounds. Sublime vocals.

I really didn't enjoy listening to her songs on the radio because she just sounded muffled and mumbling. But it's a completely different presentation on the abyss.


----------



## ekfc63

I used some of the 3M protection tape cut to size when I had my *Utopias*.  It didn't look quite as nice as unprotected, but saved me from having to overbaby them. I'm more into protecting them from permanent damage than keeping them looking nice on a day to day basis.  Others may have different priorities.


----------



## szymonsays

ekfc63 said:


> I used some of the 3M protection tape cut to size when I had my *Utopias*.  It didn't look quite as nice as unprotected, but saved me from having to overbaby them. I'm more into protecting them from permanent damage than keeping them looking nice on a day to day basis.  Others may have different priorities.



Yay, now i know i'm not alone in this world! hahaha


----------



## szymonsays

I looked online and bought 9mm sized transparent tape to wrap around the sides of my Diana Phi lol I blame my uncle as he was really into hifi and electronics, and he was overprotective of his equipment and this rubbed off on me as well now.


----------



## Litlgi74

ekfc63 said:


> For those with the CC or TC ceramic coating how are you finding the durability?  Is the finish susceptible to scratches or chipping?


Yes it is... If your married... Be careful with your wedding ring... Especially when adjusting the toe. The finish on the outside edges can be  easily marred.


----------



## tholt

ekfc63 said:


> For those with the CC or TC ceramic coating how are you finding the durability?  Is the finish susceptible to scratches or chipping?



In short, I would say yes. I baby all my gear and despite this, I still found a few very, very small areas around the edges and outside grill where I noticed the a bit of the finish had worn off. I'd take care, especially along the sharp edges. I never put mine down on hard surfaces so I'm puzzled and a little bummed as to why.


----------



## JLoud

I have the TC and the finish is very durable. Absolutely no issues in the 6 months I have had them.


----------



## honeyjjack

The silverfi hr4 signature edition has arrived. I dont have my desktop rig currently so i cant give a review but coming from my lpgt and ba300s the stock cables sound tinny and unatural compared to the silverfi. Full review will come later


----------



## mulder01

szymonsays said:


> I looked online and bought 9mm sized transparent tape to wrap around the sides of my Diana Phi lol I blame my uncle as he was really into hifi and electronics, and he was overprotective of his equipment and this rubbed off on me as well now.


I'd be more worried about what happens when you take the tape off...


----------



## szymonsays

I've taken it off before and it was fine  The adhesive isn't that strong.


----------



## llamaluv

New TCs in the house. 

This is my home remedy for the Abyss's suboptimal headband ergonomics -- two velcro straps that pull the band upwards so they're not pressing so aggressively against my head. It creates more of a contact patch and eliminates the hot spot I was getting. I would actually call the Abyss comfortable now. 

Just as important though is that it results in lowering the position of the pads around my ears so that it closes the gap between the lower, fat part of the pads and the side of my neck beneath the jaw, which had otherwise been too much.



Ignore the adapters in the picture, though. That was a quick test to try out my Utopia cable, but I believe the adapter affects the sound too much to be useful.


----------



## lambdastorm

llamaluv said:


> New TCs in the house.
> 
> This is my home remedy for the Abyss's suboptimal headband ergonomics -- two velcro straps that pull the band upwards so they're not pressing so aggressively against my head. It creates more of a contact patch and eliminates the hot spot I was getting. I would actually call the Abyss comfortable now.
> 
> ...


Damn, I have the exact same problem with the headband and for ages I thought the only solution is to break the headband ring and tie a knot around the suspension bump. You are a genius.


----------



## llamaluv

lambdastorm said:


> Damn, I have the exact same problem with the headband and for ages I thought the only solution is to break the headband ring and tie a knot around the suspension bump. You are a genius.


I know what you mean. I owned the Phi previously and found the headband to be a constant annoyance, but somehow never rose quite to the level of me trying to do anything about it (aside from complaining about it, naturally). This time around, literally the first thing I did when I took it out of the box was reach for some velcro strips, almost without thinking.


----------



## attmci

llamaluv said:


> New TCs in the house.
> 
> This is my home remedy for the Abyss's suboptimal headband ergonomics -- two velcro straps that pull the band upwards so they're not pressing so aggressively against my head. It creates more of a contact patch and eliminates the hot spot I was getting. I would actually call the Abyss comfortable now.
> 
> ...


There is definitely something missing from this setup.


----------



## mulder01

Here is an old pic of mine.  With the velcro tied lower down the frame.
This allowed the elastic bands to be under minimal tension, and a more curved arc to more closely match the curve of my head - good even weight distribution over a larger surface area.  Could also be height adjusted if necessary.


----------



## Litlgi74

I think you guys are gonna like this... Spectacular stereo imaging, and wonderful bass quality.


 

https://tidal.com/track/70079560

Enjoy


----------



## sn0gl0be (Nov 16, 2019)

Awesome song, great recommendation. Any others?
I recommend Bubbles by Horikawa and City of the Sun (binaural album)


----------



## nogi replicant

Hey, I currently have an Abyss Phi that I am using straight from DAVE. I think it sounds excellent but of course have the itch to hear a decent amp in the middle. It appears many think the Abyss Phi benefits from an amp over DAVE, though some are on the other side of the fence.

I am considering two amps, the Formula S (without Power Man - due to funds) or the Wells Milo (with a couple of upgrades). The Formula S will cost me over twice as much as the used Milo.

Has anyone heard these two amps with the Dave and Abyss combo, or even just with the Abyss and another DAC? if so is the Formula S worth the extra stretch financially over the Milo?

And do you think Milo is of a high enough quality level to pair with the excellent DAVE?

many thanks.


----------



## CreditingKarma

nogi replicant said:


> Hey, I currently have an Abyss Phi that I am using straight from DAVE. I think it sounds excellent but of course have the itch to hear a decent amp in the middle. It appears many think the Abyss Phi benefits from an amp over DAVE, though some are on the other side of the fence.
> 
> I am considering two amps, the Formula S (without Power Man - due to funds) or the Wells Milo (with a couple of upgrades). The Formula S will cost me over twice as much as the used Milo.
> 
> ...




I am running mine straight out of the TT2. IMO the TC sounds better straight out of the TT2 than it did out of a Dave. The abyss sound better with more power. I did hear them with a Dave and wells headtrip lvl2 reference. That pairing was incredible.


----------



## jlbrach

the formula s is head and shoulders better than the milo which I owned for a very short time


----------



## nogi replicant

Thanks for the input guys!!


----------



## simorag (Nov 19, 2019)

nogi replicant said:


> Hey, I currently have an Abyss Phi that I am using straight from DAVE. I think it sounds excellent but of course have the itch to hear a decent amp in the middle. It appears many think the Abyss Phi benefits from an amp over DAVE, though some are on the other side of the fence.
> 
> I am considering two amps, the Formula S (without Power Man - due to funds) or the Wells Milo (with a couple of upgrades). The Formula S will cost me over twice as much as the used Milo.
> 
> ...



I am among those who believe that improving on the DAVE with the AB-1266 is a challenge, which may be more or less hard depending on musical content type, listening volume and of course your preference as a listener. To improve on the DAVE _throughout_ the score board (i.e. without compromising on some of its key strengths) you need an upper echelon amplifier in my opinion / experience.

I have listened to the Milo, but unfortunately not with the DAVE as the source, I can just report that the Milo can drive the AB-1266 with ease quantity-wise, and with a rather uncolored (in a good way) presentation which _should_ match the DAVE signature well.

The Formula S is a very good match for the Abyss Phi, and provides a compelling upgrade path when adding the Powerman power supply, which I would warmly recommend when / if funds allow. I had this combo for about a year and I was happy to have the option of switching from DAVE direct (for genres where utmost transparency, holographic imaging / ambience reconstruction was crucial) to the Formula S when I felt more grunt was necessary / enjoyable at the cost of some transparency and finesse sacrifice (less so with the Powerman).

As a side note, unrelated to your direct question, when trying amplifiers in the 7k - 20k price bracket and 8W - 125W power range over the last several months I discovered is that it was easy for me to be fooled by the initial impression that the amp was better than the DAVE just due to the tendency to listen at higher volume with the amplifier in the chain, combined to the sense of psychological comfort you get from seeing the volume knob at about 50% or less.
When levelling the volume between the DAVE (even pushed to +6/+9dB) and the amp and doing blind tests, I found that the sense of strain / congestion / loss of bass control I was sometimes hearing from the DAVE was, in some cases, due to my self-conditioning instead of actual issues of the DAVE hp out.
Situations where, in realistic listening conditions, the DAVE was running out of steam with the AB-1266 were still occasionally there, yet much rarer than I initially thought, which means (to me) that extremely high power is not the main driver in the selection of the amp - the choice of XI Audio of a 2W design for the Formula S seems to make much sense - being tonality matching and transparency the most important factors.


----------



## ekfc63 (Nov 19, 2019)

I'd like to try my 1266TCs connected to the XLRs on my Chord TT2.  Can anyone suggest a good quality adapter, either 1/4" female to dual female 3-pin XLRs (for Dana Reference), or female 3-pin XLR to dual female 3-pin XLR (for stock cable).


----------



## jlbrach (Nov 19, 2019)

I agree with this assessment, the TC and LCD-4 for that matter can be driven quite nicely through the dave and the added bonus is the transparency it provides which can be an added bonus....no matter how good the amp there is some coloration and some loss of transparency....that said there are cases where things are improved with the amp...in the case of the susvara there is no decision to be made,an amp is a necessity...psychologically I do indeed feel more comfortable seeing the volume dial at around 12 o clock rather than +6 on the dave that is absolutely true


----------



## tholt

llamaluv said:


> Just as important though is that it results in lowering the position of the pads around my ears so that it closes the gap between the lower, fat part of the pads and the side of my neck beneath the jaw, which had otherwise been too much.



I have the opposite problem. I need to raise the pads to fit squarely over my ears. 



mulder01 said:


> Could also be height adjusted if necessary.



This. This. My massive pet peeve of the Abyss is that there is zero adjustment for height. Hence we're posting about all the crazy DIY ways we come up with to make $5k headphones fit correctly. 'One size fits all' does not work for headphones. I wish some of the profits would be spent on R&D and implementation of a better fit.


----------



## llamaluv

The other thing -- which I regret not having appreciated sufficiently before -- is that pulling the frame outwards all the way increases the tension of the headband quite a lot, thereby increasing the pressure on the top of the head and also potentially raising the frame higher up in relation to the ears.


----------



## Olumm

I tried searching this thread for measurements for the new ear pads, but was not able to find any. Can someone here with the newer pads take some measurements and post them? I am looking to make a few versions now that I have printed out the magnet/ported rings. 

Thanks!


----------



## ahossam

I was looking for a new headphones, is WA5-LE good enough for Abyss Phi TC?


----------



## headblid

Hello TC fans, 
Been running a Sennheiser stack as my main desktop unit for the last few years HD800S, HD820, HDVD800 —> HDV820.
Had a serious mind wall about spending too much on headphones but then slowly creeped past the wall with the main chain and some other cans I have. 
I’m now looking to consolidate for space reasons and also because I just end up using a single headphone at a specific location and don’t switch around very often so some of them just don’t get head time. 
I’m wondering if anyone can comment on potentially replacing the Sennheiser HD8XX set with a single Abyss. 
Has anyone gone through a similar consolidation where they have been able to reduce the amount of cans to a single unit and live with it?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## ekfc63

nogi replicant said:


> Hey, I currently have an Abyss Phi that I am using straight from DAVE. I think it sounds excellent but of course have the itch to hear a decent amp in the middle. It appears many think the Abyss Phi benefits from an amp over DAVE, though some are on the other side of the fence.
> 
> I am considering two amps, the Formula S (without Power Man - due to funds) or the Wells Milo (with a couple of upgrades). The Formula S will cost me over twice as much as the used Milo.
> 
> ...



A Dave 2 with an amp with the power of the TT2 would solve a lot of people's problems


----------



## Olumm

headblid said:


> Hello TC fans,
> Been running a Sennheiser stack as my main desktop unit for the last few years HD800S, HD820, HDVD800 —> HDV820.
> Had a serious mind wall about spending too much on headphones but then slowly creeped past the wall with the main chain and some other cans I have.
> I’m now looking to consolidate for space reasons and also because I just end up using a single headphone at a specific location and don’t switch around very often so some of them just don’t get head time.
> ...



Hey headblid - I went through a very similar situation about 6 months ago. I took a look around my office and noticed that I had 13 pairs of headphones sitting on my stands just gathering dust, and I took the steps to start downsizing my collection. I, thankfully, have a local audio shop that's owned by a great local family. They stock Focal, Sennheiser, Audeze, Grado, etc... and also have quite a collection of their own personal headphones/speakers. They allow you to come in and spend as much time as you want with their gear, which is a blessing. One of their sons had a pair of the OG 1266, and I must have spent 2 hours listening to it and getting the fit right (thankfully he was able to help me). Comparing the OG 1266 to basically all the other top end cans (Utopia, LCD-4, HD800s) was hilarious for me, as they all just couldn't compare to the 1266. It was after that session that I knew I was heading towards getting a 1266.

I now switch between 2 headphones (soon to be 3) depending on what I am doing at my desk. My HD600's that I have owned for over a decade... I will be buried with them, The OG 1266 and a soon to come Jade II system. The Jade II was an impulse buy as it was way too cheap to not buy. I was also part of the loaner tour for the Jade II and really liked them for classical music. The OG 1266 is something that I have never regretted buying or using as my 'daily' driver. It does basically everything so damn well. 

I struggled quite a bit on sources and amps, as at one point I had 8 amps and just as many dacs. I am now happy with the AudioGD R-28 acting as the source and a heavily modified bottlehead crack (HD600) and an Emotiva a-100 to power the 1266. I realize that seems like a very underwhelming chain, but to my ears those are the pieces that I have enjoyed the most with the 1266 and the HD600. I have even used the crack as tube preamp to feed signal to the a-100, and that just puts a massive smile on my face. I had a ALO Studio Six at one point, but even with tube rolling it just sounded to darn clinical to my ears, and the bottlehead crack was just too damn fun compared to the SS. 

TL;DR - This is all an adventure, but if you are able to find a headphone like the 1266 that does everything to your ears well... then why wouldn't you be happy? To me... the 1266 is easily a one and only pair of cans.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Nov 22, 2019)

headblid said:


> Hello TC fans,
> Been running a Sennheiser stack as my main desktop unit for the last few years HD800S, HD820, HDVD800 —> HDV820.
> Had a serious mind wall about spending too much on headphones but then slowly creeped past the wall with the main chain and some other cans I have.
> I’m now looking to consolidate for space reasons and also because I just end up using a single headphone at a specific location and don’t switch around very often so some of them just don’t get head time.
> ...


I had HD800s before my TC/Susvara/th900mk2 combo.  I don't miss the HD800s at all really.   But, your HD820s cannot be replaced with just a TC, given that it is a closed headphone, and the TCs are very open. 

Personally, think it's wise to keep both an open and closed pair of headphones.  I use my th900mk2s as my closed unit, but I'll probably replace it with ZMF Verite C cans.  Of my open headphones, I love both the TCs and Susvara, but if I had to pick only one, it would be the TCs.  The TCs are the best headphones money can buy, in my opinion.  There are no flaws, other than the fit with the headband (it can get uncomfortable over several hours of listening).


----------



## JLoud

ahossam said:


> I was looking for a new headphones, is WA5-LE good enough for Abyss Phi TC?



I am using the WA5LE with my Tc. It sounds awesome. Around 10-11 o’clock volume is VERY loud. Plenty of power and very nice timbre. I also have a Headamp GSXmk2 and it has plenty of power as well. Depending on my mood and type of music I enjoy both. But if you already have the Woo I think your good to go. You won’t be disappointed. Anything else is just a matter of preference not a real upgrade. IMO.


----------



## jlbrach

susvara and TC pretty much covers all needs...getting pretty hard to improve on these HP's I would think at this point...


----------



## headblid

Thank you both for providing these detailed answers - looks like I have some next steps to find a store in Toronto that carries the Abyss and get some head time. 
Re: replacing the HD820 with the Abyss, I also have a Sony Z7 and recently got a Denon d9200 - likely going to keep them both for a while as they cover different rooms .

Thanks again!



Olumm said:


> Hey headblid - I went through a very similar situation about 6 months ago. I took a look around my office and noticed that I had 13 pairs of headphones sitting on my stands just gathering dust, and I took the steps to start downsizing my collection. I, thankfully, have a local audio shop that's owned by a great local family. They stock Focal, Sennheiser, Audeze, Grado, etc... and also have quite a collection of their own personal headphones/speakers. They allow you to come in and spend as much time as you want with their gear, which is a blessing. One of their sons had a pair of the OG 1266, and I must have spent 2 hours listening to it and getting the fit right (thankfully he was able to help me). Comparing the OG 1266 to basically all the other top end cans (Utopia, LCD-4, HD800s) was hilarious for me, as they all just couldn't compare to the 1266. It was after that session that I knew I was heading towards getting a 1266.
> 
> I now switch between 2 headphones (soon to be 3) depending on what I am doing at my desk. My HD600's that I have owned for over a decade... I will be buried with them, The OG 1266 and a soon to come Jade II system. The Jade II was an impulse buy as it was way too cheap to not buy. I was also part of the loaner tour for the Jade II and really liked them for classical music. The OG 1266 is something that I have never regretted buying or using as my 'daily' driver. It does basically everything so damn well.
> 
> ...





Ciggavelli said:


> I had HD800s before my TC/Susvara/th900mk2 combo.  I don't miss the HD800s at all really.   But, your HD820s cannot be replaced with just a TC, given that it is a closed headphone, and the TCs are very open.
> 
> Personally, think it's wise to keep both an open and closed pair of headphones.  I use my th900mk2s as my closed unit, but I'll probably replace it with ZMF Verite C cans.  Of my open headphones, I love both the TCs and Susvara, but if I had to pick only one, it would be the TCs.  The TCs are the best headphones money can buy, in my opinion.  There are no flaws, other than the fit with the headband (it can get uncomfortable over several hours of listening).


----------



## XUPX

headblid said:


> Thank you both for providing these detailed answers - looks like I have some next steps to find a store in Toronto that carries the Abyss and get some head time.
> Re: replacing the HD820 with the Abyss, I also have a Sony Z7 and recently got a Denon d9200 - likely going to keep them both for a while as they cover different rooms .
> 
> Thanks again!



I believe the only distributor in Toronto is headfoneshop.com (I hope linking the is fine). I don't know if they have a demo available. 
I also know that last year there was a black Friday sale for the US. I asked if it'll happen again and include Canadians this year but there was no reply (asked in the Diana thread).


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Hi guys, I'm looking for a Abyss and does the OG still worth it ? Or the other versions are much superior. There is some for $2K.


----------



## Olumm

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Hi guys, I'm looking for a Abyss and does the OG still worth it ? Or the other versions are much superior. There is some for $2K.



I prefer the OG to the newer versions, but I would recommend finding the lineup to trial on your own if at all possible.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Hi guys, I'm looking for a Abyss and does the OG still worth it ? Or the other versions are much superior. There is some for $2K.



I find one of the best versions is the Phi CC. The TC is  the top of course, but if i owned either the TC or Phi CC id be a happy camper.
I'd never go back to the OG.


----------



## tholt

I started on the OG as I'm sure many here have. It's still a phenomenal headphone and competitive with TOTL phones. The upgrades are noticeable, but all 1266s have a house sound. For $2k, I'd totally get an OG. You won't find a Phi (let alone TC) for less than $3k.


----------



## attmci

tholt said:


> I started on the OG as I'm sure many here have. It's still a phenomenal headphone and competitive with TOTL phones. The upgrades are noticeable, but all 1266s have a house sound. For $2k, I'd totally get an OG. You won't find a Phi (let alone TC) for less than $3k.


Not true.


----------



## tholt

attmci said:


> Not true.



Super helpful.


----------



## CreditingKarma

tholt said:


> Super helpful.



There are always ways to get decent pricing on audio items. This is why you should find a good dealer and stick with them.


----------



## tholt

CreditingKarma said:


> There are always ways to get decent pricing on audio items. This is why you should find a good dealer and stick with them.



Also not really helpful. The question was asked if the OG 1266 was worth it for $2k. Regarding dealers, they're a rare bunch. I love comments like the one you just made, but reality is for many working with a dealer isn't an option. Unless you're referring to online sales as a "dealer".


----------



## attmci

tholt said:


> Super helpful.


If you search some popular sites, you will find that's true. However, I have no interest to provide those links.


----------



## attmci (Nov 23, 2019)

tholt said:


> Also not really helpful. The question was asked if the OG 1266 was worth it for $2k. Regarding dealers, they're a rare bunch. I love comments like the one you just made, but reality is for many working with a dealer isn't an option. Unless you're referring to online sales as a "dealer".


No, it not worth 2k. Clear? OK, that's only my opinion, I am sorry you were offended.

If Joe release a new version of 1266 in the near future, the  TC will drop to $3500.


----------



## tholt

attmci said:


> No, it not worth 2k. Clear?



Wow. Someone needs to loosen his shoelaces


----------



## CreditingKarma

tholt said:


> Also not really helpful. The question was asked if the OG 1266 was worth it for $2k. Regarding dealers, they're a rare bunch. I love comments like the one you just made, but reality is for many working with a dealer isn't an option. Unless you're referring to online sales as a "dealer".




I am luck in that I live near an abyss dealer. I have not heard the original 1266 but can say that the TC is  a step up from the PHI. I am sure that if you build a relationship with an online dealer you can find deals as well. It is always worth a shot. Besides if you are going to spend $5k on headphones it is worth finding a place to try them. Audio Vision is right there in SF give them a call.


----------



## matthewhypolite

CreditingKarma said:


> I am luck in that I live near an abyss dealer. I have not heard the original 1266 but can say that the TC is  a step up from the PHI. I am sure that if you build a relationship with an online dealer you can find deals as well. It is always worth a shot. Besides if you are going to spend $5k on headphones it is worth finding a place to try them. Audio Vision is right there in SF give them a call.



Ive heard and owned every abyss 1266.

$2000 is a good price for the OG, but honestly I'd spend the little more to get up to a phi, I'm sure you can find a phi for 3k. It's worth it to try and find a phi at a good price. OG has a a couple issues imo that the phi fixed.

I would not be able to own an OG as my only headphone because of this. But a phi, especially with CC pads, yea, I could live with jsut that.


----------



## mulder01

OG is the business.  $2k is a bargain.  
Keep in mind, these are revisions of the same model we're talking - not different models.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

If you're in the USA, The Evolution of Sound is having a Black Friday sale. If outside the USA, contact them directly...


----------



## ken6217

I was thinking of getting the 1266 TC. My amp is a Violectric V281 running balanced. I wanted to check first if this amp will drive the 1266 to its potential. Thanks.


----------



## XUPX

Abyss Headphones said:


> If you're in the USA, The Evolution of Sound is having a Black Friday sale. If outside the USA, contact them directly...


Hi! Will there be a Black Friday sale in Canada as well? With the authorized retailer, of course. 
Thanks!


----------



## tholt

CreditingKarma said:


> I am luck in that I live near an abyss dealer. I have not heard the original 1266 but can say that the TC is a step up from the PHI. I am sure that if you build a relationship with an online dealer you can find deals as well. It is always worth a shot. Besides if you are going to spend $5k on headphones it is worth finding a place to try them. Audio Vision is right there in SF give them a call.



Yes, it's fortunate in the Bay Area people have access to dealers like AVSF. My point was that in many cases, there is no physical dealer within a reasonable distance for people.


----------



## mulder01

ken6217 said:


> I was thinking of getting the 1266 TC. My amp is a Violectric V281 running balanced. I wanted to check first if this amp will drive the 1266 to its potential. Thanks.


Yeah, I used it with my OG for years and AFAIK, the TC is that little bit easier to drive.



XUPX said:


> Hi! Will there be a Black Friday sale in Canada as well? With the authorized retailer, of course.
> Thanks!


As he said, contact TEOS directly?  Or the special is for 10% off.  If your local dealer won't do 10% off for you on Black Friday... Well... Go elsewhere


----------



## ken6217

Thanks. I’ll have to take a run into the city and give a listen. Maybe they will allow me to use my amp.


----------



## XUPX

mulder01 said:


> Yeah, I used it with my OG for years and AFAIK, the TC is that little bit easier to drive.
> 
> 
> As he said, contact TEOS directly?  Or the special is for 10% off.  If your local dealer won't do 10% off for you on Black Friday... Well... Go elsewhere



I'll check with the dealer. The problem with ordering from the states is that it's usually extremely expensive to ship, you have to pay insane brokerage fees and then customs and tax calculated on top of all of those. So it usually kills the deal. 

That said, I might have to wait a bit before I get the Diana's. My laptop is showing signs of death, and I might need to get a new one. There's a limit to how much money I can drop in one go lol.


----------



## ken6217 (Nov 24, 2019)

The dealer I am going to listen to the 1266 Phi model from last year. Can I assume if I like these that there TC will sound as good or better? Is the only difference the TC ear pads?


----------



## Litlgi74

Abyss Headphones said:


> If you're in the USA, The Evolution of Sound is having a Black Friday sale. If outside the USA, contact them directly...


Will there be a preorder sale on the CC to TC upgrade?


----------



## ray-dude

TC ordered...much to be thankful for (can't wait to join this party...TC BLEW me away at RMAF 2018)


----------



## CreditingKarma

ray-dude said:


> TC ordered...much to be thankful for (can't wait to join this party...TC BLEW me away at RMAF 2018)



Congrats get ready to sell most of your other headphones.


----------



## ken6217

Ordered mine as well today.


----------



## Litlgi74

CreditingKarma said:


> Congrats get ready to sell most of your other headphones.


And to start spending crazy money on other gear to make your headphones sound even better!


----------



## Ciggavelli (Nov 25, 2019)

Litlgi74 said:


> And to start spending crazy money on other gear to make your headphones sound even better!


Yup, exactly


----------



## ekfc63

ray-dude said:


> TC ordered...much to be thankful for (can't wait to join this party...TC BLEW me away at RMAF 2018)



Very excited for you.  They’re everything a TOTL headphone should be.


----------



## Sage Encore

Guys, anyone running their Phi of a SPEC RSA-V1EX? I just audited the amp on my home setup driving my Phi CC. OMG, it was just WOW. My current amp is the Simaudio HAD430, but the SPEC is just so beautiful, it sounds more like a tube amp than a Class D. If anyone else using it please chime in. Thinking either the RSA-V1, RAS-M3 or Simaudio 600i. Used of course. Thank you all in advance. Happy listening.


----------



## Delacaff

Sage Encore said:


> Guys, anyone running their Phi of a SPEC RSA-V1EX? I just audited the amp on my home setup driving my Phi CC. OMG, it was just WOW. My current amp is the Simaudio HAD430, but the SPEC is just so beautiful, it sounds more like a tube amp than a Class D. If anyone else using it please chime in. Thinking either the RSA-V1, RAS-M3 or Simaudio 600i. Used of course. Thank you all in advance. Happy listening.



I have read a lot about SPEC amplifier. They seem really really amazing. Have you listen your Abyss with Viva Egoista, Riviera AIC 10 or WA33 for instance ? If yes, how would you describe your experience vs the SPEC ?


----------



## Litlgi74

Love, love, love my 600i... If the deal is right, don't hesitate to buy one from overseas. Simaudio will do a voltage conversion,  upgrade the firmware clean and go over the amp for a $150. They stand by their product... No matter how old it is.


----------



## Sage Encore

Delacaff said:


> I have read a lot about SPEC amplifier. They seem really really amazing. Have you listen your Abyss with Viva Egoista, Riviera AIC 10 or WA33 for instance ? If yes, how would you describe your experience vs the SPEC ?


I have heard them on WA33, but that was a long time ago and that too at an audio shop. I can't really recall the sound signature now. Sorry.


----------



## Sage Encore

Litlgi74 said:


> Love, love, love my 600i... If the deal is right, don't hesitate to buy one from overseas. Simaudio will do a voltage conversion,  upgrade the firmware clean and go over the amp for a $150. They stand by their product... No matter how old it is.


I did find one listed in Hifi shark. It was from a seller in Italy, was quoted 1.2k pounds. I am very sceptical though. It seems too good to be true. It will be blind transaction.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Nov 26, 2019)

Sage Encore said:


> I did find one listed in Hifi shark. It was from a seller in Italy, was quoted 1.2k pounds. I am very sceptical though. It seems too good to be true. It will be blind transaction.



I think I had dealings with the same seller... Other than older photos, he couldn't send me any proof that he had the amp... He said it was at his summer home and refused to go there to take any date stamped photos without at least half the money up front.

Be careful...

I purchased mine from a member of this forum.


----------



## ken6217

I was also curious have a WA 33 sounds with these headphones.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> I was also curious have a WA 33 sounds with these headphones.


I have a WA33 that I use to drive my TCs.  The sound is absolutely phenomenal.  The weight, sound stage, transparency, and I guess gooey-sound (not in a bad way at all or too pronounced), makes everything sound so pleasing to the ear.  I upgraded my tubes as well, and they improve the sound quality even more.  I just have the standard edition.  Those with the Elite Edition claim the sound is even better.  I've never heard them, but I'm curious.  I don't know how they could make the sound even better, but apparently they have.


----------



## Sage Encore

Litlgi74 said:


> I think I had dealings with the same seller... Other than older photos, he couldn't send me any proof that he had the amp... He said it was at his summer home and refused to go there to take any date stamped photos without at least half the money up front.
> 
> Be careful...
> 
> I purchased mine from a member of this forum.


Thank you so much for this info. I was very sceptical, Guess my gut feeling was right. He claimed to be a 74 year old Italian. Sent me his and his family photo together with photos of the amp. But I don’t think it was time stamped. A fellow forum met also warned me since the price was too good.


----------



## Litlgi74

Sage Encore said:


> Thank you so much for this info. I was very sceptical, Guess my gut feeling was right. He claimed to be a 74 year old Italian. Sent me his and his family photo together with photos of the amp. But I don’t think it was time stamped. A fellow forum met also warned me since the price was too good.


You're welcome... I asked him to to take a photo of the amp which had a piece of paper on it... On which my name was written... He refused to do so unless I gave him half the money... Bye-bye!


----------



## ken6217 (Nov 26, 2019)

Ciggavelli said:


> I have a WA33 that I use to drive my TCs.  The sound is absolutely phenomenal.  The weight, sound stage, transparency, and I guess gooey-sound (not in a bad way at all or too pronounced), makes everything sound so pleasing to the ear.  I upgraded my tubes as well, and they improve the sound quality even more.  I just have the standard edition.  Those with the Elite Edition claim the sound is even better.  I've never heard them, but I'm curious.  I don't know how they could make the sound even better, but apparently they have.



Thanks.
I had wondered because I had read it was very clean sounding and not tubey sounding. Of course associated components and cables all contribute to the overall sound. Also one reviewers observations. 

I’m used to a full and rich sound coming from the LCD4, and now Empyrean. I am using a Violectric V281. I still have the amp and the Empyrean. I wanted to add a other headphone, and hence the 1266. I have heard so much about them over the years. 

I had heard that the 1266 and WA 33 were a good combo, and was curious of the sound signature. I have never  listened to a 2A3 amp before. I had owned a Cayin HA-300 and Eddie Current Balancing Act, but those are both 300B amps. 

The good/bad news is that tubes make a difference. LOL.


----------



## mulder01

I would like to know how many people have had a proper listen to WA33 vs WA33EE.  Of course the buyers of the EE will sing its praises, but I have a very - let's say - honest friend who is pretty deep into the hobby who got to compare both and said that he thought the standard edition was much better than the elite.  IIRC, even better than his EC Studio which he loved (the standard - not the elite).  So everyone's opinion is different.  And given the high number of people buying blind, and the size of the investment, I can't imagine anyone saying they think their elite might be beaten by a standard.  So ciggavelli, you might just prefer the amp you've got to the elite anyway... Or at least it's definitely possible.  
I know I wouldn't fork out the extra for essentially the same amp without very good reason / a very close comparison...


----------



## llamaluv

ken6217 said:


> Thanks.
> I had wondered because I had read it was very clean sounding and not tubey sounding. Of course associated components and cables all contribute to the overall sound. Also one reviewers observations.
> 
> I’m used to a full and rich sound coming from the LCD4, and now Empyrean. I am using a Violectric V281. I still have the amp and the Empyrean. I wanted to add a other headphone, and hence the 1266. I have heard so much about them over the years.
> ...



I had the Phi CC with the WA33, though the two pieces only overlapped in my system for a couple months. I liked both the amp and the headphone a fair amount, but didn't "love" either (even though I had thousands of dollars of motivation to convince myself to feel differently), and so sold off both items, respectively.

Having said that, I thought the Phi paired well with the WA33 and was not in want in power, and was among my favorite pairings with the WA. The WA33 has very good "technicalities" for a tube amp, in that it's pretty fast, relatively clean-sounding, has an even-keeled tonality, and of course has a good deal of power for a headphone tube amp. Sound-staging, imaging, and depth in my opinion was to me somewhere between good to pretty good.

In the end though, I believe that 2A3 just doesn't do it for me personally, though I have not tried every 2A3 tube under the sun (though I did go through a couple decent new-production 2A3 quads). 

I've since become heavily biased towards high-powered solid state amps in terms of driving planars, and have been using a Pass Labs X150.8 (speaker amp) to drive my TCs, which I've actually been enjoying a lot, and quite a lot more than my last go-round with the Phi on my previous setup.


----------



## ekfc63

llamaluv said:


> I had the Phi CC with the WA33, though the two pieces only overlapped in my system for a couple months. I liked both the amp and the headphone a fair amount, but didn't "love" either (even though I had thousands of dollars of motivation to convince myself to feel differently), and so sold off both items, respectively.
> 
> Having said that, I thought the Phi paired well with the WA33 and was not in want in power, and was among my favorite pairings with the WA. The WA33 has very good "technicalities" for a tube amp, in that it's pretty fast, relatively clean-sounding, has an even-keeled tonality, and of course has a good deal of power for a headphone tube amp. Sound-staging, imaging, and depth in my opinion was to me somewhere between good to pretty good.
> 
> ...



Are you using the Hifiman HE adapter between the amp and HPs?


----------



## llamaluv

ekfc63 said:


> Are you using the Hifiman HE adapter between the amp and HPs?


No, just a banana plugs-to-female-XLR adapter cable.


----------



## ken6217 (Nov 26, 2019)

llamaluv said:


> I had the Phi CC with the WA33, though the two pieces only overlapped in my system for a couple months. I liked both the amp and the headphone a fair amount, but didn't "love" either (even though I had thousands of dollars of motivation to convince myself to feel differently), and so sold off both items, respectively.
> 
> Having said that, I thought the Phi paired well with the WA33 and was not in want in power, and was among my favorite pairings with the WA. The WA33 has very good "technicalities" for a tube amp, in that it's pretty fast, relatively clean-sounding, has an even-keeled tonality, and of course has a good deal of power for a headphone tube amp. Sound-staging, imaging, and depth in my opinion was to me somewhere between good to pretty good.
> 
> ...



Wow, I like that idea. Tube Amps are a real rabbit hole for me. I have a feeling I will send up in the same situation you were with the WA-33 and 1266. I actually have larger Pass Labs mono blocks in my home theater.

I guess you find the Pass amps more musical than the WA33?

How did you decide on that wattage amp? I assume you can't overdrive the headphones with that wattage? What do you use for volume control?


----------



## llamaluv (Nov 26, 2019)

ken6217 said:


> Wow, I like that idea. Tube Amps are a real rabbit hole for me. I have a feeling I will send up in the same situation you were with the WA-33 and 1266. I actually have larger Pass Labs mono blocks in my home theater.
> 
> I guess you find the Pass amps more musical than the WA33?
> 
> How did you decide on that wattage amp? I assume you can't overdrive the headphones with that wattage?



I've gotten much more enjoyment and mileage out of my X150.8 than I ever did with the WA33, yea.

In terms of wattage, mine is 150 watts, which is hugely overkill for any of these headphones, but I chose it when I was at the height of my enthusiasm with the SR1a, and 150 watts is arguably right around the sweet spot for those headphones...

A power amp with this kind of wattage might be bad news for the Abyss (and one's ears of course) if accidentally driven at full power momentarily. Probably a shade less so with the Susvara. So requires a good deal of caution, especially when experimenting, before settling into a routine for every-day usage. I use a DAVE as the "preamp".


----------



## ken6217

llamaluv said:


> I've gotten much more enjoyment and mileage out of my X150.8 than I ever did with the WA33, yea.
> 
> In terms of wattage, mine is 150 watts, which is hugely overkill for any of these headphones, but I chose it when I was at the height of my enthusiasm with the SR1a, and 150 watts is arguably right around the sweet spot for those headphones...
> 
> ...


----------



## llamaluv

ken6217 said:


> Hmmm. I liked the idea all the up to the point that it dawned on me that I have no way of controlling the volume. My DAC, Metrum Pavane has no volume control.
> 
> Do you have any thoughts on another clever option as you did? Thanks.



You'd need a preamp in-between the DAC and the amp for sure. You could try a passive preamp like a Schiit Sys for starters. Passive preamps can have a complicated behavior when the amp has too low of an input impedance, but the Pass Labs amps all have a fairly high input impedance, so that's good. And for the price (of the Sys), it's definitely worth trying if even just as an experiment...


----------



## lambdastorm (Nov 27, 2019)

Heddphones are shipping next month. Given how much positive feedback they had received at the show and my own experience at RMAF and AES, I'd say they are a potential Abyss challenger. I don't have high hopes for them to dethrone Abyss, but we'll see. The hype for SR1A is high but after listening to it at one headfier's place I don't think that's the right headphone for long term listening. A couple minutes maybe. 2 hours maybe tinnitus.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Right.


----------



## CreditingKarma

lambdastorm said:


> Heddphones are shipping next month. Given how much positive feedback they had received at the show and my own experience at RMAF and AES, I'd say they are a potential Abyss challenger. I don't have high hopes for them to dethrone Abyss, like SR1A did when it first came out, but we'll see.



I wouldn't say that the sr1a dethroned the 1266 TC. The sr1a doesn't have the bass response of the abyss.  I would say the only area where the sr1a is better could be in soundstage. At that point I would much rather just listen to my speaker setup.


----------



## lambdastorm (Nov 27, 2019)

CreditingKarma said:


> I wouldn't say that the sr1a dethroned the 1266 TC. The sr1a doesn't have the bass response of the abyss.  I would say the only area where the sr1a is better could be in soundstage. At that point I would much rather just listen to my speaker setup.


That's not what I meant at all actually. One critical flaw of the SR1A is listening fatigue and I don't think tubes are the answer. While on the first blush it can sound incredibly resolving, it wears you out very quickly. On top of that it can sound bright with most gears. I have no doubt SR1A can 'dethrone' any headphone in an A/B session just by pure resolving power, but for long term listening it is most definitely not an ideal solution.


----------



## Sage Encore

lambdastorm said:


> That's not what I meant at all actually. One critical flaw of the SR1A is listening fatigue and I don't think tubes are the answer. While on the first blush it can sound incredibly resolving, it wears you out very quickly. On top of that it can sound bright with most gears. I have no doubt SR1A can 'dethrone' any headphone in an A/B session just by pure resolving power, but for long term listening it is most definitely not an ideal solution.


I concur.


----------



## Sage Encore

Guys,
Just bought meself a SPEC RSA-V1EX to drive my Abyss Phi CC. Currently using Simaudio HAD430. Next up, upgrade to TC. Hopefully Joe reduces the upgrading cost. Be nice Joe. It's Christmas season, be our Santa. LOL.


----------



## Marco_tam (Nov 27, 2019)

My TC has arrived and finally be able to join this party~

Upgraded from my 4-year-old Beyer T1V2, I must say the TC slays! No offense to Beyer but Abyss is in total different league!
As a newbie, I'd say even without mod, in terms of comfort, it's not as bad as others have been saying. At least to me, I don't feel tired at all for 3 hour listening.
I am now pairing it with the Simaudio 430HA. With the ear pads rotated to the position where it's barely touching my skin, the result is an super airy, crazily huge soundstage. But I have yet to hear the amazing BASS everyone has been talking about. I have kept on trying different positions but that's the best I've got so far (no amazing bass but huge soundstage).

Could you guys share your way of finding the amazing bass??


----------



## llamaluv

Marco_tam said:


> Could you guys share your way of finding the amazing bass??


One thing for sure is to burn them in. I found that even waiting an extra 24 hours made a noticeable improvement. After 100 or so, I felt like the tonal balance evened out to its final state.


----------



## Sage Encore

Marco_tam said:


> My TC has arrived and finally be able to join this party~
> 
> Upgraded from my 5-year-old Beyer T1V2, I must say the TC slays! No offense to Beyer but Abyss is in total different league!
> As a newbie, I'd say even without mod, in terms of comfort, it's not as bad as others have been saying. At least to me, I don't feel tired at all for 3 hour listening.
> ...


10 to 11 o clock position of the ear cups
 is a good start. U might be too far off the ears. They need to be touching but just. Play arnd with the drivers, turning them inwards just a tad. There is also a video on youtube. Enjoy the beauty. 

We are using the same amp I see. But I have now moved onto driving it using a 2-channel amp.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Sage Encore said:


> 10 to 11 o clock position of the ear cups
> is a good start. U might be too far off the ears. They need to be touching but just. Play arnd with the drivers, turning them inwards just a tad. There is also a video on youtube. Enjoy the beauty.
> 
> We are using the same amp I see. But I have now moved onto driving it using a 2-channel amp.



You've described the exact positioning and tuning of the ear cups and frame that's required to get the best base imo


----------



## Marco_tam

Sage Encore said:


> 10 to 11 o clock position of the ear cups
> is a good start. U might be too far off the ears. They need to be touching but just. Play arnd with the drivers, turning them inwards just a tad. There is also a video on youtube. Enjoy the beauty.
> 
> We are using the same amp I see. But I have now moved onto driving it using a 2-channel amp.



So there should be no gap from the ears, right? with 10/11 o clock position, it feels tighter. Before trying 10 and 11, I was stopping at 7 o clock position which left out a small gap between the ears and the cups. 
The 430HA is already a beautiful amp, may I ask why changed it to a 2-channel amp?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Marco_tam said:


> My TC has arrived and finally be able to join this party~
> 
> Upgraded from my 4-year-old Beyer T1V2, I must say the TC slays! No offense to Beyer but Abyss is in total different league!
> As a newbie, I'd say even without mod, in terms of comfort, it's not as bad as others have been saying. At least to me, I don't feel tired at all for 3 hour listening.
> ...


The gap between the ear pads and your head is positively correlated with bass level.  If you start to hear bass distortion, you will know the ear pads are too far away from your head.  

As for fit to ensure the best bass: First, try to spread the two arms out to their fullest.  Then gradually move the ear pads closer and closer to your ears.  Next, try to rotate the headphone arms as well.  Also, you need to find the best position for the ear pads.  I'm at like 10 or 11 o'clock.  It took me quite a long time to get the fit right with the TCs, but once you get it, it will blow your mind.

Also, please note that if you have a big head like me, you may need to actually bend the headphone arms out a bit.  That sounds like a bad thing, but don't worry.  Abyss has a video showing you exactly how to do that on youtube.  Bending the arms outward a bit really helped me achieve the best sound quality


----------



## llamaluv

Cautionary note on bending the frame. On the previous Abyss pair I had, I managed to bend the frame maybe one extra degree outward, or maybe less. This ended up making them more uncomfortable than before for me personally, as it resulted in more pad pressure on the skin right above my ears.


----------



## ken6217 (Nov 27, 2019)

I’m receiving my TC later on today. This may be a dumb question, but when you say the ear pads should be just touching the skin, are you referring to the face or the outside of the ears? Thanks.

Also, any tips for breaking in? Any certain volume or type of music? Can you play them 24/7. Thanks.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> I’m receiving my TC later on today. This may be a dumb question, but when you say the ear pads should be just touching the skin, are you referring to the face or the outside of the ears? Thanks.
> 
> Also, any tips for breaking in? Any certain volume or type of music? Can you play them 24/7. Thanks.


Face/head.  They go around your ears


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> Face/head.  They go around your ears



Thanks.


----------



## Marco_tam

Ciggavelli said:


> The gap between the ear pads and your head is positively correlated with bass level.  If you start to hear bass distortion, you will know the ear pads are too far away from your head.
> 
> As for fit to ensure the best bass: First, try to spread the two arms out to their fullest.  Then gradually move the ear pads closer and closer to your ears.  Next, try to rotate the headphone arms as well.  Also, you need to find the best position for the ear pads.  I'm at like 10 or 11 o'clock.  It took me quite a long time to get the fit right with the TCs, but once you get it, it will blow your mind.
> 
> Also, please note that if you have a big head like me, you may need to actually bend the headphone arms out a bit.  That sounds like a bad thing, but don't worry.  Abyss has a video showing you exactly how to do that on youtube.  Bending the arms outward a bit really helped me achieve the best sound quality



Thanks for the tips!!!
Adjusting this thing really makes my hands hurt...Right now the pads are sitting in 1 o'clock, with the arms out to the fullest and a little bent out. The bass seems to be coming out but yet to be amazing. Will try to burn it in this week to how it goes~


----------



## ekfc63

ken6217 said:


> I’m receiving my TC later on today. This may be a dumb question, but when you say the ear pads should be just touching the skin, are you referring to the face or the outside of the ears? Thanks.
> 
> Also, any tips for breaking in? Any certain volume or type of music? Can you play them 24/7. Thanks.




I broke mine in by playing a music radio channel through them for 5 days at around 80% of my normal listening volume.  It seemed to do the trick.


----------



## ken6217

Thanks. I’m going to try to break them in for a couple days without listening to them first. Of course this is always famous last words as I never seem to follow that advice and I just listen to them.


----------



## tholt

Marco_tam said:


> Could you guys share your way of finding the amazing bass??



IME, the most bass came from the pads seams lined up at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, IOW the seam was at a 90 degree angle from the top. This created a large gap toward the bottom of the ear which acted like a large port. The bass in this position was huge, but too much so, in that audible distortion would frequently occur. 

I concur with others on the 10-11 o'clock position as being ideal. Those are the two positions I use and seems to be the most balanced, esp through the mids.


----------



## Litlgi74

I agree with @tholt ... I too struggled with the bass slam that Abyss users rave about. I came from TH900s... a bassheads dream headphone. I was ready to sell the 1266s after 10 minutes of owning them. I felt duped  and was very discouraged. But after time and a ton of experimentation... I came to realize that the TH900S have great bass slam but nowhere near the refinement of LFE when compared to 1266s. 

Take some time and fiddle with the pads and the fit.

Be patient.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Nov 27, 2019)

Litlgi74 said:


> I agree with @tholt ... I too struggled with the bass slam that Abyss users rave about. I came from TH900s... a bassheads dream headphone. I was ready to sell the 1266s after 10 minutes of owning them. I felt duped  and was very discouraged. But after time and a ton of experimentation... I came to realize that the TH900S have great bass slam but nowhere near the refinement of LFE when compared to 1266s.
> 
> Take some time and fiddle with the pads and the fit.
> 
> Be patient.


I have the th900mk2s too, and the first thing I noticed was that the bass wasn't as good on the TCs.  They still sounded good, and everything else was great, so I was fine with the bass being a little less than the th900mks.  That was running the TCs off of a Chord Hugo TT2.  I then bought the Woo Audio WA33 a bit later, and oh my, the bass on the TCs got much stronger and abundant.  The quantity and expanse of the bass on the TCs through the WA33s is equal to the th900ks now.  Since the quality of the bass is higher on the TCs, the TCs have actually become a basshead's dream.  They are THE basshead headphones in my mind.  

So, anyways, moral of the story, the TCs love power, and as power increases, so does the quantity of the bass.  THere's a reason people use speaker amps with the TCs


----------



## ken6217

Which tubes are using on the WA33?


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> Which tubes are using on the WA33?


All upgraded tubes: KR Audio 2A3, TA-274B Takatsuki, 6C45Pi Electro Harmonix Gold-pin

The TC bass was better than the TT2 with stock tubes on the WA33 as well


----------



## Roasty

Ciggavelli said:


> All upgraded tubes: KR Audio 2A3, TA-274B Takatsuki, 6C45Pi Electro Harmonix Gold-pin
> 
> The TC bass was better than the TT2 with stock tubes on the WA33 as well



Those are some nice tubes!


----------



## Litlgi74

Ciggavelli said:


> So, anyways, moral of the story, the TCs love power, and as power increases, so does the quantity of the bass. THere's a reason people use speaker amps with the TCs



Which is why I purchased a Moon 600i.


----------



## Litlgi74

@Ciggavelli  Please let me know if you ever want to sell your Sapphires. I regret selling my Ruby Reds.


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> All upgraded tubes: KR Audio 2A3, TA-274B Takatsuki, 6C45Pi Electro Harmonix Gold-pin
> 
> The TC bass was better than the TT2 with stock tubes on the WA33 as well



If I was to get the WA33, I would also go with the KR tubes. I had KR 300B Coke Bottle tubes in my previous amp and it some serious slam. 

I'm not familiar with the bass on the TT2. 

I'll be using my V281, and plan on borrowing a Niimbus US4+ next week.


----------



## Sage Encore

Marco_tam said:


> So there should be no gap from the ears, right? with 10/11 o clock position, it feels tighter. Before trying 10 and 11, I was stopping at 7 o clock position which left out a small gap between the ears and the cups.
> The 430HA is already a beautiful amp, may I ask why changed it to a 2-channel amp?


Because with more power comes great response. Lol. Yes, it’s a remake statement from Spider-Man. But true. The Abyss sing and the bass. Wooolala. But refrain from doing it for now. Get accustomed first. U need to be careful when driving them with 2 channel amp. Very careful. Simaudio 600i is highly recommended. I’m using SPEC.


----------



## DeepSouth

Does anyone have the sagra dac yet? still few reviews on it.


----------



## Delacaff

DeepSouth said:


> Does anyone have the sagra dac yet? still few reviews on it.



Hi DeepSouth.
I do. My electronics are all XIaudio: Formula S + Powerman + Sagra DAC. Before having the SagraDAC, my DAC was a Nuforce. My listening sessions were very transparent and dry then. The Nuforce DAC didn't add nor retrieve anything to the FormulaS. 

With the SagraDAC, the SQ became more organic, more eloquent. Tones are far much fuller and richer with the SagraDAC. More organic doesn't mean less transparent nor warmer. Transparency, impact and contours of the notes are still here and excellent. Music became just more involving and foot tapping. As of space and stages, SagraDAC is good but I may say, not crazy amazing. Instruments are well separated one from the other and there is depth and relief, but I can't say that the SagraDAC enlarge the room. 

I think that the SagraDAC pairs wonderfully with the Formula S because it brings richness to tones that the Formula S then conveys with transparency and dynamics. At its price point, the SagraDAC is a very good deal. 

FYI, I coupled a Jcat USB isolator to feed the SagraDAC from a Mac mini. Floor noise has decreased and music felt more relaxed. An additional testimony that the SagraDAC is a great conveyor, not imposing a personality to music, but unleashing the best out of it.


----------



## ken6217

So I have 3 hours on the clock on my new TC. I moved the pads from 10:00, and then 11:00, and then 11:30, and wow. Already sounds very good. I was afraid to move my head. LOL.

I'm sure by the weekend they should really sound incredible. 

I had never heard these headphones before, and I am impressed.


----------



## Marco_tam

ken6217 said:


> So I have 3 hours on the clock on my new TC. I moved the pads from 10:00, and then 11:00, and then 11:30, and wow. Already sounds very good. I was afraid to move my head. LOL.
> 
> I'm sure by the weekend they should really sound incredible.
> 
> I had never heard these headphones before, and I am impressed.



Same here, I never had a try on it either before and I am amazed at how out-of-head it sounds!
Now I have the pads stay at 10 o'clock and I am finally able to feel the bouncy, punchy bass. It should even be better with more burn-in. 
God, this one is addictive!!


----------



## Roasty

Apologies if this has been asked before.

What benefit would I get running the 1266 TC from a power amplifier like the AHB2 over a HPA4 headphone amplifier? I'm trying to justify buying the hifiman adaptor box/adaptor cable.


----------



## llamaluv (Nov 29, 2019)

Roasty said:


> What benefit would I get running the 1266 TC from a power amplifier like the AHB2 over a HPA4 headphone amplifier? I'm trying to justify buying the hifiman adaptor box/adaptor cable.



John Siau wrote that it basically shouldn't matter (not accounting for the external resistor solution you're proposing, however). Hopefully I'm not bastardizing his position by summing it up like that. Here's the relevant post.

On using the Hifiman adapter on the AHB2, I definitely wouldn't bother, and would (and did) just use a banana plugs-to-female-XLR adapter cable instead. Especially since the AHB2 has an (exceptionally) low gain mode for a speaker amp...

BTW, do you own both the AHB2 and the HPA4? I'm very curious to know if two actually do present any differences when directly compared against each other, connected to headphones, since I owned the AHB2 not log ago (for all of three weeks), which I used with the RAAL and Susvara.


----------



## Roasty

llamaluv said:


> John Siau wrote that it basically shouldn't matter (not accounting for the external resistor solution you're proposing, however). Hopefully I'm not bastardizing his position by summing it up like that. Here's the relevant post.
> 
> On using the Hifiman adapter on the AHB2, I definitely wouldn't bother, and would (and did) just use a banana plugs-to-female-XLR adapter cable instead. Especially since the AHB2 has an (exceptionally) low gain mode for a speaker amp...
> 
> BTW, do you own both the AHB2 and the HPA4? I'm very curious to know if two actually do present any differences when directly compared against each other, connected to headphones, since I owned the AHB2 not log ago (for all of three weeks), which I used with the RAAL and Susvara.



Thanks for referencing that post! That helped a lot.

Yep I have the ahb2 and hpa4, but after reading that post by John, I think i probably won't be trying ahb2->1266 anytime soon..


----------



## llamaluv

Roasty said:


> Yep I have the ahb2 and hpa4, but after reading that post by John, I think i probably won't be trying ahb2->1266 anytime soon..


Awww. Oh well


----------



## llamaluv (Nov 30, 2019)

So I've been jotting down some notes on how I think the *Abyss Phi TC and Susvara* compare, and because I don't think there's been much of anything posted by way of comparisons between these two natural enemies (kidding!), I'm going to volunteer to stick my neck out and post what I've written down, using a highly schematic and artless bullet-point-like format, complete with highly reductive and cliched ten-point ratings.

A little background info, though: I've had the TC for only like three weeks and have I've been listening to it with just one amp, a Pass Labs X150.8 speaker amp, and it's possible that my assessments might change slightly with exposure to a broader array of gear, though my educated guess is that it won't really. If they do I'll be sure to update this post or something like that. In contrast, I've had the Susvara for about a year and a half and have listened to it at length on at least 8-9 very good amps (at least I think so), including half a dozen speaker amps. I also had the Abyss Phi with CC pads about a year ago for a period of about three months. And my listening diet is like 50% jazz, 20% electronic, 20% rock/metal. And 10% anime soundtracks (yea, what?).

Soundstage: TC 11, Susvara 8

Yes, that's an 11 on a ten-point scale. Along with its bass, to me this is the TC's biggest strength over every other dynamic headphone.​
Bass: TC 11, Susvara 8.5

Again, no need to gush and wax poetic at length here, as we all know the TC's bass is G.O.A.T., full stop.​
Mids: Susvara 9, TC 8

My least favorite "attribute" of the Abyss, to be honest, though still alright. Part of the tepidness I'm expressing is in large part due to how much I like the mids on the Susvara, which are so smooth, lifelike, and even. I do think the mids on the TC offer an important improvement over the CC though (less thin), and that it does avoid any weird unevenness that I think we can all agree are the kiss of death for a headphone. I do wish the TC gave more prominence to the lower-to-middle mids. Could also be my amp, though.​
Treble: Susvara 10, TC 8

I'm very partial to the Susvara's treble. Like, tied with the SR1a. Cymbals are unfailingly sweet, smooth, well imaged, and detailed. Treble on the TC is good in the sense of being controlled, pretty detailed, and not overly sibilant but otherwise can't compete. IMO ofc. YMMV (though I doubt it ).​
Imaging: Susvara 9.5, TC 8

I actually think the TC's imaging is only just alright. Instruments like vocals, saxophone, cymbals and snare drum hits present more defined images on the Susvara. I feel this pretty strongly, which is saying something, since I usually find differences in quality of imaging to be pretty subtle. To be fair though, imaging tends to get softer as soundstage size increases. Percussion sounds that are centered around the lower mids and bass (tom toms, for example) do image great on the TC, though.​Depth: Same as above

To my mind, depth correlates strongly with imaging and is arguably part of the same phenomenon. When I'm listening closely with the TC, I miss the depth of the Susvara.​
Resolution: Susvara 9, TC 8

Resolution can be a really difficult thing to assess and is a complex topic in its own right, but when I'm setting down to "see into the music", I see more of it with the Susvara. Part of the reason (though not all of it) is that the Susvara is more forward than the TC, which enhances one's perception of detail, as does a smaller soundstage.

_Edit:_ I should also mention that I'm still using the stock cable on the TC, but am using a Lazuli Ultra cable with the Susvara, which is the best among a number that I've tried at length at teasing out microdetail.​
Speed: TC 8.5, Susvara 8

The TC is IMO best-in-class in terms of speed -- for a planar. Relatedly, TC wins on macrodynamics (even when the Susvara is on a speaker amp).​
Genre - rock: TC, easily

Kind of a no-brainer. The TC and the Utopia are the only two high-end headphones I'm familiar with that I care to listen to electric guitar-based music with.​
Genre - electronic: TC

Same.​
Genre - jazz: Susvara (mostly but not necessarily always)

Listening at loud volumes: TC, easily

If I have any misgivings with the Phi TC, they all kind-of magically go away when I turn it up (especially if there are guitars involved, and bass drums). Double-edged sword, that. Imaging improves a lot, too.​
Tonal balance: Susvara

This is highly, highly subjective, but my vote goes with the Susvara, whose frequency response is to me so even and "right". The TC is arguably more neutral, if that's what you're into, but even if it is, only after having mastered the byzantine and largely thankless art of Abyss frame and pad positioning.​
Physical merits

The TC is built like a tank, but continues to be profoundly compromised in terms of ergonomics. The Susvara build quality is famously abyssmal (I'm on my third pair of pads in 18 months, like, What?), but is super-comfortable. So... a draw. Yay?​
Lack of fatigue: Susvara

Susvara wins over anything I've owned for any length of time. I think this is due to both its relatively soft style of presentation (which can both a good and bad thing) and its laudably even tonality in the upper half of the frequency spectrum. However, the TC doesn't give me any undue problems either, despite its big dynamics and huge capacity for bass. Fatigue has ended up is a frequent deal-breaker for me, so I'm quite thankful that this appears to be the case.​
Synergy with speaker amps: ?

I'm very partial to speaker amps for headphones in general, so will be very interested to find out for myself if there's a legitimate generalization to be made regarding the TC's behavior on (good) speaker amps compared to relatively high-powered solid state headphone amps, or not really. I've only heard the TC on one speaker amp so far and think it sounds great, but need more experiences with others.

Meanwhile, the Susvara has never met a decent speaker amp that it doesn't like.​
Summary - Enjoyment:

*Yes. *

​


----------



## Ciggavelli

llamaluv said:


> So I've been jotting down some notes on how I think the *Abyss Phi TC and Susvara* compare, and because I don't think there's been much of anything posted by way of comparisons between these two natural enemies (kidding!), I'm going to volunteer to stick my neck out and post what I've written down, using a highly schematic and artless bullet-point-like format, complete with highly reductive and cliched ten-point ratings.
> 
> A little background info, though: I've had the TC for only like three weeks and have I've been listening to it with just one amp, a Pass Labs X150.8 speaker amp, and it's possible that my assessments might change slightly with exposure to a broader array of gear, though my educated guess is that it won't really. If they do I'll be sure to update this post or something like that. In contrast, I've had the Susvara for about a year and a half and have listened to it at length on at least 8-9 very good amps (at least I think so), including half a dozen speaker amps. I also had the Abyss Phi with CC pads about a year ago for a period of about three months. And my listening diet is like 50% jazz, 20% electronic, 20% rock/metal. And 10% anime soundtracks (yea, what?).
> 
> ...


Nice review. I have the TCs and Susvaras too. I think I’ll do a little write up as well soon. Though, spoiler alert: I agree with most of what you have written, aside from resolution (I think the TCs are better), loud volumes (I feel loud volumes sound better with the Susvaras) imaging (I think the opposite) and rock (depends on the type of rock. Stoner, garage and acoustic rock sound better on the Susvaras, while death, black and doom sound better on the TCs).


----------



## cj3209

llamaluv said:


> ... And 10% anime soundtracks...


What anime tracks do you recommend?  My last one was Bubblegum Crisis (I'm dating myself...).


----------



## llamaluv

Ciggavelli said:


> Nice review. I have the TCs and Susvaras too. I think I’ll do a little write up as well soon. Though, spoiler alert: I agree with most of what you have written, aside from resolution (I think the TCs are better), loud volumes (I feel loud volumes sound better with the Susvaras) imaging (I think the opposite) and rock (depends on the type of rock. Stoner, garage and acoustic rock sound better on the Susvaras, while death, black and doom sound better on the TCs).


Wow, those are some noteworthy differences. Fascinating. Looking forward to it.


----------



## llamaluv

cj3209 said:


> What anime tracks do you recommend?  My last one was Bubblegum Crisis (I'm dating myself...).


I like soundtrack albums to various recent anime TV series and movies. There can be a great deal of variety in styles, but much of it tends to be orchestral with lots of layered, atmospheric electronics. 

Yuki Kajiura is probably my favorite composer:


----------



## mat.1

Can Chord hugo TT2 Drive the 1266 Phi TC ( Single Ended ) ? Is the sound is ok or Good ?


----------



## Ciggavelli

mat.1 said:


> Can Chord hugo TT2 Drive the 1266 Phi TC ( Single Ended ) ? Is the sound is ok or Good ?


I started out with that. I thought everything sounded fine. But then I got my WA33 and I realized that the TT2 with a single ended connection was under powering the TCs. The bass was not where it should be was with the TT2. The weight wasn’t there.

The TCs sound noticeably better on the WA33s than the TT2s.

Somebody told me the TT2s can drive the TCs better with the 3pin XLRs in the back, but I can’t personally verify that (I only have a 4-pin and SE connection).

Now, if I never heard the TCs on the WA33s I would have still said the TCs sound amazing. But, I didn’t know what I was missing. The TCs are a new pair of headphones on the WA33. There’s a reason why people run the TCs off speaker amps


----------



## matthewhypolite

llamaluv said:


> So I've been jotting down some notes on how I think the *Abyss Phi TC and Susvara* compare, and because I don't think there's been much of anything posted by way of comparisons between these two natural enemies (kidding!), I'm going to volunteer to stick my neck out and post what I've written down, using a highly schematic and artless bullet-point-like format, complete with highly reductive and cliched ten-point ratings.
> 
> A little background info, though: I've had the TC for only like three weeks and have I've been listening to it with just one amp, a Pass Labs X150.8 speaker amp, and it's possible that my assessments might change slightly with exposure to a broader array of gear, though my educated guess is that it won't really. If they do I'll be sure to update this post or something like that. In contrast, I've had the Susvara for about a year and a half and have listened to it at length on at least 8-9 very good amps (at least I think so), including half a dozen speaker amps. I also had the Abyss Phi with CC pads about a year ago for a period of about three months. And my listening diet is like 50% jazz, 20% electronic, 20% rock/metal. And 10% anime soundtracks (yea, what?).
> 
> ...



Nice, check out my comparison in my sig of those 2 as well. I also have which I prefer for which genre compete with scores and the like.


----------



## llamaluv

matthewhypolite said:


> Nice, check out my comparison in my sig of those 2 as well. I also have which I prefer for which genre compete with scores and the like.


Oh that's right, yes thanks. I'm reviewing your added details on TC in your (wiki) post now.

It's interesting to me that you also like the TC's detail retrieval abilities the most.


----------



## thomaskong78

llamaluv said:


> So I've been jotting down some notes on how I think the *Abyss Phi TC and Susvara* compare, and because I don't think there's been much of anything posted by way of comparisons between these two natural enemies (kidding!), I'm going to volunteer to stick my neck out and post what I've written down, using a highly schematic and artless bullet-point-like format, complete with highly reductive and cliched ten-point ratings.
> 
> A little background info, though: I've had the TC for only like three weeks and have I've been listening to it with just one amp, a Pass Labs X150.8 speaker amp, and it's possible that my assessments might change slightly with exposure to a broader array of gear, though my educated guess is that it won't really. If they do I'll be sure to update this post or something like that. In contrast, I've had the Susvara for about a year and a half and have listened to it at length on at least 8-9 very good amps (at least I think so), including half a dozen speaker amps. I also had the Abyss Phi with CC pads about a year ago for a period of about three months. And my listening diet is like 50% jazz, 20% electronic, 20% rock/metal. And 10% anime soundtracks (yea, what?).
> 
> ...



Nice comparison between Susvara and 1266 TC.

Both Abyss 1266 TC and Raal Sr1a are on Black Friday sale now. I am in a conundrum to choose one between those two excellent headphones.








When I had listened to SR1a and 1266 Phi CC at Torq’s home, I liked both.



Ultimately I will have both.

But I wish to try one of them this time.

I wish to keep one nice dynamic HP(hd800s), electrostatic(Stax009S), ribbon (Sr1a) and planar magnetic(Abyss 1266 TC) in the future.

It will be like tasting wines with different flavors.

Although I am more attracted to Sr1a than 1266 TC, I am afraid of possibility that Raal make SR2a (improved version) next year while 1266 TC has not much more room to improve.


----------



## matthewhypolite

thomaskong78 said:


> Nice comparison between Susvara and 1266 TC.
> 
> Both Abyss 1266 TC and Raal Sr1a are on Black Friday sale now. I am in a conundrum to choose one between those two excellent headphones.
> 
> ...


o really now, the raal is on my short list of cans to buy, but because it requires a new amp I was holding off. Iet me check out this sale


----------



## llamaluv

thomaskong78 said:


> Both Abyss 1266 TC and Raal Sr1a are on Black Friday sale now. I am in a conundrum to choose one between those two excellent headphones.



IMO one of the deciding factors should be whether you're prepared to invest the effort (and other stuff like money lol) in making the SR1a work well in your system. Not only because of the speaker amp requirement, but also because it's just... really bright. FWIW, I did not like the SR1a's synergy with the DAVE very much, and preferred it a good deal more with a warmer, fuller-sounding R2R DAC (the Pavane in my case). Nevertheless, I agree that there are very good reasons to be curious about the SR1a.


----------



## thomaskong78 (Nov 30, 2019)

llamaluv said:


> IMO one of the deciding factors should be whether you're prepared to invest the effort (and other stuff like money lol) in making the SR1a work well in your system. Not only because of the speaker amp requirement, but also because it's just... really bright. FWIW, I did not like the SR1a's synergy with the DAVE very much, and preferred it a good deal more with a warmer, fuller-sounding R2R DAC (the Pavane in my case). Nevertheless, I agree that there are very good reasons to be curious about the SR1a.


If I get Sr1a, I have two options.

One is to use Rogue Cronus Magnum II tube amplifier to feed it, but I also have Lyngdorf 2170 in the digital chain which have lot of useful eq presets.

I can boost bass with two eq presets (gentle bass1, more hard bass2)

The other choice will be to wait for Jotuheim R which is a dedicated amp for Sr1a.

If I get 1266 TC, I consider using Hifiman adapter to connect it to Rogue Cronus Magnum II with Lyngdorf 2170 in the digital chain which have lot of useful eq presets..

The Black Friday Sale ends tomorrow, thus I have to make decision on choosing one between Abyss 1266 TC and Raal Sr1a  by then.


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## thomaskong78 (Nov 30, 2019)

llamaluv said:


> IMO one of the deciding factors should be whether you're prepared to invest the effort (and other stuff like money lol) in making the SR1a work well in your system. Not only because of the speaker amp requirement, but also because it's just... really bright. FWIW, I did not like the SR1a's synergy with the DAVE very much, and preferred it a good deal more with a warmer, fuller-sounding R2R DAC (the Pavane in my case). Nevertheless, I agree that there are very good reasons to be curious about the SR1a.


I had auditioned several R2R Dac including MSB Select II, but I do not find the sound out of Dave and HMS too hard.

Dave and HMS is very sensitive to digital cables.

I currently use Sablon Audio Panatella BNC cables after trying 4 different ones.

This one gives good balance between details and analog ease.

https://audiobacon.net/2019/01/04/sablon-audio-panatela-reserva-digital-elegance/


----------



## tholt

I know this has been talked about somewhere here, but does anyone have a link to a headphone cable/adapter to connect to speaker taps? Something like XLR to banana plugs. Thanks


----------



## thomaskong78 (Nov 30, 2019)

tholt said:


> I know this has been talked about somewhere here, but does anyone have a link to a headphone cable/adapter to connect to speaker taps? Something like XLR to banana plugs. Thanks


https://store.hifiman.com/index.php/he-adapter.html

It is safer to use this adapter for both headphone and amp.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Nov 30, 2019)

tholt said:


> I know this has been talked about somewhere here, but does anyone have a link to a headphone cable/adapter to connect to speaker taps? Something like XLR to banana plugs. Thanks


I have been using a custom XLR to banana plug speaker tap adapter with my 600i from @teds headfood at Headphone Lounge with zero problems. He is also having a 30% off Black Friday Sale... I think the adapter ends of being under $60 shipped. He does all business via email at tedallen0220@gmail.com. He usually replies within minutes.


----------



## astrostar59

High guys. I got my headphone centre up and running in Spain. Check it out!

http://www.auriculares-highend.eu/

Best wishes
Julian


----------



## Litlgi74

astrostar59 said:


> High guys. I got my headphone centre up and running in Spain. Check it out!
> 
> http://www.auriculares-highend.eu/
> 
> ...


Nice Amp!


----------



## tholt

Litlgi74 said:


> I have been using a custom XLR to banana plug speaker tap adapter with my 600i from @teds headfood at Headphone Lounge with zero problems. He is also having a 30% off Black Friday Sale... I think the adapter ends of being under $60 shipped. He does all business via email at tedallen0220@gmail.com. He usually replies within minutes.



You were right about his quick replies. We went back and forth quite a bit today. He always got back within minutes. I may have actually found someone on the computer as much as I am. Boom, done. Cable will ship Monday. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## Litlgi74

tholt said:


> You were right about his quick replies. We went back and forth quite a bit today. He always got back within minutes. I may have actually found someone on the computer as much as I am. Boom, done. Cable will ship Monday. Thanks for the tip!


Cool... Glad it worked out. What lead length did you end up getting?


----------



## tholt

@Litlgi74  I just needed a foot long. Shorty adapter cable. He's actually making two separate cables, one for each of the dual XLRs on the Abyss cable.


----------



## Litlgi74

tholt said:


> @Litlgi74  I just needed a foot long. Shorty adapter cable. He's actually making two separate cables, one for each of the dual XLRs on the Abyss cable.


Ah... Are you using the superconductor cable or another custom cable?


----------



## tholt (Nov 30, 2019)

Litlgi74 said:


> Ah... Are you using the superconductor cable or another custom cable?



Nope, just the standard Abyss cable. Mine started as an OG which I think had that option.

Was just checking their website, if pictures are correct the Deluxe version comes with dual XLR


----------



## Litlgi74

tholt said:


> Nope, just the standard Abyss cable. Mine started as an OG which I think had that option.
> 
> Was just checking their website, if pictures are correct the Deluxe version comes with dual XLR


Ah... I see.


----------



## Sage Encore

Guys,
I'm thinking of re-terminating the OG Abyss cable, meaning to change out the XLR and put in banana plugs so I can plug into my amp. I am currently using Norne audio S3 cables hence do not use the OG cable. Any thoughts or recommendations? Thank you.


----------



## mulder01

There are a bunch of people buying aftermarket cables for their abyss, so there would be a decent amount of OG's on the used market for cheap.  If you mess it up or wanted top go back to XLR, you could probably pick up another set easy.  Go for it I say.


----------



## Sage Encore

Hi muder01 thank you for the advice sir. I am also in the midst of ordering an adapter for my S3 with Trevor.


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Dec 2, 2019)

New ABYSS video... Sounds INSANE on the 1266


----------



## nomad777

I recently bought the 1266 TC and have been listening to it non stop for about 3 days now to get used to the sound signature. The amp I'm using is the Woo Audio WA 33 elite with more than enough power and detail. 

Do I think its the best headphone yes and no. The yes part its extremely well balanced low, mid , high's  and provides good detail. Sometimes the bass can be a bit much....However.... 

Here's the no part. It's not the only headphone I would want to own. I also have the Focal Utopias, Clears, HD800, and HE1000 each of those headphones does do some things better than the TC. 

Utopias are the narrow band detail king and some songs do have more detail than the TC; sometimes the TC's bass gets in the way of micro details 
Clears are very similar to the TC's in respect to sound signature well balanced
HE1000's larger sound stage and have extreme detail like the utopias
HD800 larger sound stage

I don't regret buying them for their balanced approach and can see why Steve Guttenberg and Z reviews like them; but if I had one to only own it would be a toss up between the TC and the HE1000's for the setup I have.


----------



## ken6217

You can adjust it to lessen the bass. Play around with it.


----------



## CreditingKarma (Dec 2, 2019)

nomad777 said:


> I recently bought the 1266 TC and have been listening to it non stop for about 3 days now to get used to the sound signature. The amp I'm using is the Woo Audio WA 33 elite with more than enough power and detail.
> 
> Do I think its the best headphone yes and no. The yes part its extremely well balanced low, mid , high's  and provides good detail. Sometimes the bass can be a bit much....However....
> 
> ...




I find the abyss sound stage to be on par with the hd800. The 800 seems to be artificially large at times though.


----------



## nomad777

CreditingKarma said:


> I find the abyss sound stage to be on par with the hd800. The 800 dems to be artificially large at times though.



Hmm I don't mind the soundstage it just doesn't have the same detail as the HE1000's which surpass it in soundstage in my opinion; just a better sounding headphone.


----------



## nomad777

ken6217 said:


> You can adjust it to lessen the bass. Play around with it.



Moving the earpieces around etc.. is not enough it has to be eq'd but won't do that for a bit. Perhaps after a week of playing time


----------



## nomad777

oh one more thing I will replace the stock cable with an 7N silver one later on... I don't recommend buying the overpriced cable from jps labs


----------



## ken6217

nomad777 said:


> oh one more thing I will replace the stock cable with an 7N silver one later on... I don't recommend buying the overpriced cable from jps labs



How does the upgraded cable sound?


----------



## jlbrach

CreditingKarma said:


> I find the abyss sound stage to be on par with the hd800. The 800 dems to be artificially large at times though.



to me the 800's always had what I can best describe as an artificial soundstage, the TC to me is as large but more natural....to me thee proper comparison to th TC is the susvara not the 1000....the 1000 series is fantastic in its own right but ultimately the susvara betters it convincingly...I for a short time thought otherwise


----------



## nomad777

jlbrach said:


> to me the 800's always had what I can best describe as an artificial soundstage, the TC to me is as large but more natural....to me thee proper comparison to th TC is the susvara not the 1000....the 1000 series is fantastic in its own right but ultimately the susvara betters it convincingly...I for a short time thought otherwise



hmm the Susvara does have more detail but the soundstage is not as large as the HE1000's and the 15% extra detail really isn't worth it. The He1000 bass is also stronger.


----------



## nomad777

ken6217 said:


> How does the upgraded cable sound?



I don't have it yet...  but if I go from past experience where I do have them eg.. he1000's  they add more of everything. Think of a musical verb layering, soundstage etc.. and it adds it...


----------



## jlbrach

I do not agree that the 1000 soundstage is larger...it is different the susvara is deeper....the susvara has more detail and better bass ....the discussion of what is worth what is purely subjective, if you can addord it it is worth it


----------



## ken6217

Oh, I was wondering if you had heard it since you said it was overpriced. I guess you mean expensive.


----------



## nomad777

jlbrach said:


> I do not agree that the 1000 soundstage is larger...it is different the susvara is deeper....the susvara has more detail and better bass ....the discussion of what is worth what is purely subjective, if you can addord it it is worth it



Well we disagree then. By soundstage I don't mean deeper i mean larger and just by comparison the he1000 are a larger headphone. I'm not saying they are better overall just bigger soundstage and the bass is stronger; harder more slam.


----------



## nomad777

ken6217 said:


> Oh, I was wondering if you had heard it since you said it was overpriced. I guess you mean expensive.



I mean the JPS labs superconductor is over priced...  and it is....


----------



## ken6217

nomad777 said:


> I mean the JPS labs superconductor is over priced...  and it is....



It's tough to say what's overpriced or not in this hobby, especially when you haven't heard it. Some people might this the TC is overpriced, and some wouldn't.


----------



## jlbrach

perfect for you then, more power to you...you get what you think is better at a lower cost


----------



## CreditingKarma

nomad777 said:


> Moving the earpieces around etc.. is not enough it has to be eq'd but won't do that for a bit. Perhaps after a week of playing time



If you adjust the pads so there is a seal the bass is reduced. This makes the sound stage smaller though.


----------



## CreditingKarma

nomad777 said:


> oh one more thing I will replace the stock cable with an 7N silver one later on... I don't recommend buying the overpriced cable from jps labs




I am not sure that the silver cable would be an upgrade over the stock cable. I have tried a few cables and have preferred the stock abyss cable over them all. I had an extended audition with the teansparent ultra headphone cable and found that it shank the sound stage and lessened the detail of the abyss. 

There was another member that tried the diana cable reference lazuli. If memory serves me correctly they returned the dana cable as they preferred the jps cable more. 

It is also worth remembering that the stock jps cable is far from a cheap offering. In stock format the cable is over $1k with the 1/4" adapter.


----------



## CreditingKarma

jlbrach said:


> to me the 800's always had what I can best describe as an artificial soundstage, the TC to me is as large but more natural....to me thee proper comparison to th TC is the susvara not the 1000....the 1000 series is fantastic in its own right but ultimately the susvara betters it convincingly...I for a short time thought otherwise



I agree 100%. The abyss are the most speaker like headphone I have ever heard. The only thing that can best them in that area would be the sr1a imo. I don't really classify them as a headphone though. They are more of a true earspeaker.


----------



## jlbrach

the sr1a sound interesting and if they didnt require a speaker amp I might well give them a try


----------



## CreditingKarma

jlbrach said:


> the sr1a sound interesting and if they didnt require a speaker amp I might well give them a try



I have been able to listen to the raal out of my hegel h360 and it sounded damn good. The best I have ever heard them were out of a D'Agostino momentum integrated but that is a bit crazy for a solution if you don't have incredible speakers as well. The momentum integrated costs around $45k.


----------



## jlbrach

I will pass on that option lol....I already find my current expenditures to be excessive lol


----------



## CreditingKarma

jlbrach said:


> I will pass on that option lol....I already find my current expenditures to be excessive lol



I am right there with you. I am tapped out right now. I want to add an mscaler and a pair of subs for my speakers. I would really lime a Dave but the TT2 makes more sense as it can drive the abyss pretty well.


----------



## Sage Encore

nomad777 said:


> oh one more thing I will replace the stock cable with an 7N silver one later on... I don't recommend buying the overpriced cable from jps labs


I am using Norne Audio's S3 cable. Give it a shot.


----------



## nomad777

ken6217 said:


> It's tough to say what's overpriced or not in this hobby, especially when you haven't heard it. Some people might this the TC is overpriced, and some wouldn't.



Well the TC is also overpriced... it is no headphone is worth 5K ....  and its not hard to evaluate what is overpriced... its just if some people are willing to pay it... and there are better cables around for the price of that one


----------



## nomad777 (Dec 2, 2019)

CreditingKarma said:


> I am not sure that the silver cable would be an upgrade over the stock cable. I have tried a few cables and have preferred the stock abyss cable over them all. I had an extended audition with the teansparent ultra headphone cable and found that it shank the sound stage and lessened the detail of the abyss.
> 
> There was another member that tried the diana cable reference lazuli. If memory serves me correctly they returned the dana cable as they preferred the jps cable more.
> 
> It is also worth remembering that the stock jps cable is far from a cheap offering. In stock format the cable is over $1k with the 1/4" adapter.



Where I get mine it would definitely be better than the stock... 7N silver is better than copper... the cost of that cable is less than 100 material wise... its an ok cable... what I will get will be much better


----------



## ray-dude

nomad777 said:


> Well the TC is also overpriced... it is no headphone is worth 5K ....  and its not hard to evaluate what is overpriced... its just if some people are willing to pay it... and there are better cables around for the price of that one



The only way to justify anything in this hobby is what people are willing to pay, and what you're able to pay.  If you have the savings to pay, I consider the price as the idifference between what you pay for something vs what you sell it for when it is time to move on to the next shiny object.  $5k is crazy high for TC's, but $4500 with the BF deal?  If you can sell for $3500 in a year, they're $1000 headphones


----------



## CreditingKarma

nomad777 said:


> Where I get mine it would definitely be better than the stock... 7N silver is better than copper...



I believe that Joe actually suggests against silver cables with the abyss. They are already detail and resolution monsters with the stock cable. The transparent ultra cable I
Proves the sound of every headphone I tried it with save for the abyss. For.my taste the stock cable is the way to go. I would like to try the super conductor but don't want to pay $2k for it. 

What are you looking for the silver cable to improve? There are better places to spend money to improve sound quality.


----------



## attmci (Dec 2, 2019)

deleted.


----------



## nomad777

CreditingKarma said:


> I believe that Joe actually suggests against silver cables with the abyss. They are already detail and resolution monsters with the stock cable. The transparent ultra cable I
> Proves the sound of every headphone I tried it with save for the abyss. For.my taste the stock cable is the way to go. I would like to try the super conductor but don't want to pay $2k for it.
> 
> What are you looking for the silver cable to improve? There are better places to spend money to improve sound quality.



Not for me my setup is pretty much maxed out... Again silver is a better conductor... 7N silver not cheap stuff some manufacturers use... the real stuff which is not easy to come by. That cable like I said earlier will improve everything and will be better than the "super conductor" which is silver plated copper I believe... I have experience already with the he1000's where I have that cable...


----------



## nomad777

attmci said:


> You haven't tried neither, how can you make any conclusions based on your "past experience"?
> 
> BTW, the "soundstage" should be read as "sound stage".



? read my posts... no thanks I like soundstage


----------



## ken6217

nomad777 said:


> Not for me my setup is pretty much maxed out... Again silver is a better conductor... 7.



So's water. Just because it is a better conductor doesn't make it sound better. Also if it was just the metal, then everyones cables using the same metal would sound the same. It's the way it is constructed, the jacket, and many other factors.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Dec 2, 2019)

Most people using summit-fi level gear take meticulous care of their equipment...

If you really think retail price is absurd... Buy used... and save thousands, and thousands, and thousands of dollars.

I was able to buy most of my gear at $0.20 on the retail dollar... All of it is in like new, to mint condition and still has the remainder of it's factory warranty.

I am very grateful for those with the upgrade disease.


----------



## DeepSouth

nomad777 said:


> Not for me my setup is pretty much maxed out... Again silver is a better conductor... 7N silver not cheap stuff some manufacturers use... the real stuff which is not easy to come by. That cable like I said earlier will improve everything and will be better than the "super conductor" which is silver plated copper I believe...


I think it’s a proprietary blend of something mixed with aluminum. They call it Alumiloy. Not a lot of info on it.


----------



## nomad777

ken6217 said:


> So's water. Just because it is a better conductor doesn't make it sound better. Also if it was just the metal, then everyones cables using the same metal would sound the same. It's the way it is constructed, the jacket, and many other factors.


 
last I heard they don't make water cables...


----------



## CreditingKarma (Dec 2, 2019)

nomad777 said:


> Not for me my setup is pretty much maxed out... Again silver is a better conductor... 7N silver not cheap stuff some manufacturers use... the real stuff which is not easy to come by. That cable like I said earlier will improve everything and will be better than the "super conductor" which is silver plated copper I believe... I have experience already with the he1000's where I have that cable...



What do you have in your system currently? The JPS cables are made with Alumiloy an alloy made by JPS. I use transparent for cables in the rest of my system.


PS there is always room for an upgrade.


----------



## ken6217

nomad777 said:


> last I heard they don't make water cables...



You haven't been paying attention.


----------



## nomad777

CreditingKarma said:


> What do you have in your system currently? The JPS cables are made with Alumiloy an alloy made by JPS. I use transparent for cables in the rest of my system.
> 
> 
> PS there is always room for an upgrade.



Aluminum ?  Like I said and it looks like I have to keep saying it nothing beats 7N silver for all aspects of sound quality


----------



## Ciggavelli

I don’t think the TCs are overpriced. To cite Steve Guttenberg (sp?), an equivalent speaker system would cost a lot more than $5K.

Are Utopias worth $4K?  Probably. Are Susvaras worth $6K. Nah, but I like them. 

I guess in a different world, no headphones should cost more than $2K. But these are speciality musical equipment. They’re made in smaller batches, sometimes by hand. 

I used to do medical research for a couple of pharmaceutical companies. It takes millions and millions of dollars in R&D and testing to make that first pill. You have to recoup your up front investments, and that’s why some meds cost so much. 

I think these speciality headphones are like that at a lesser scale


----------



## nomad777 (Dec 2, 2019)

Ciggavelli said:


> I don’t think the TCs are overpriced. To cite Steve Guttenberg (sp?), an equivalent speaker system would cost a lot more than $5K.
> 
> Are Utopias worth $4K?  Probably. Are Susvaras worth $6K. Nah, but I like them.
> 
> ...



I've heard that argument before and don't buy it. Greed is greed. However the question is are people willing to pay your outlandish price and some are. However I will say that will change in the coming years. I do like your honesty though... and that's the crux... if your willing to pay ... then its worth it to you.


----------



## ken6217

nomad777 said:


> I've heard that argument before and don't buy it. Greed is greed. However the question is are people willing to pay your outlandish price and some are. However I will say that will change in the coming years. I do like your honesty though... and that's the crux... if your willing to pay ... then its worth it to you.



That will never change unless Bernie and Elizabeth takes everyones money.


----------



## nomad777 (Dec 2, 2019)

ken6217 said:


> That will never change unless Bernie and Elizabeth takes everyones money.



They won't need to the Federal Reserve has made sure your future is sealed.... but don't want to stray off topic... so again I'll say again people are not going to be buying overpriced headphones in the coming years far more concerned about food on the plate.


----------



## matthewhypolite

nomad777 said:


> I've heard that argument before and don't buy it. Greed is greed. However the question is are people willing to pay your outlandish price and some are. However I will say that will change in the coming years. I do like your honesty though... and that's the crux... if your willing to pay ... then its worth it to you.



Some folks find the hd650 at $450 retail to be extremely overpriced. And there are thsoe than find 1.5m for a car, or watch, perfectly fine lol. 

Everything is relative. 

But keep in mind that R&D cost, and having to invest engineers and man hours over years to produce a product needs to be ultimately recouped.

The good thing is, you can choose to buy "expensive" headphones or not 

Everyone would like products to be as cheap as possible, if i can get an abyss for 500$ brand new I ain't gonna say no lol. But each person has to decide if a product is worth the price to them.

And comparing the price to similar performing products also a good way to gauge if something is too expensive or not. 

For e.g. Is the susvara worth a whole $1000 more than the abyss, to my ear no, as I'd take the abyss over those, though the susvara is right up there as well. Is the abyss worth $5k? Well to my ears I've heard nothing like it, and if I want that sound, and that's the price, and i can afford it, why not.

It's a highly subjective and relative argument and each person is going to have to ultimate decide for themselves. Much like the discussion of which dac or amp sounds "the best", all relative.


----------



## nomad777

matthewhypolite said:


> Some folks find the hd650 at $450 retail to be extremely overpriced. And there are thsoe than find 1.5m for a car, or watch, perfectly fine lol.
> 
> Everything is relative.
> 
> ...



Agreed......... in the coming years expensive headphones will not be a priority. Some of us on here are quite privileged to be spending this kind of money on non essentials.  
This will change....


----------



## joseph69

@matthewhypolite 
Well said.


----------



## jlbrach

nomad777 said:


> Well the TC is also overpriced... it is no headphone is worth 5K ....  and its not hard to evaluate what is overpriced... its just if some people are willing to pay it... and there are better cables around for the price of that one



to you they are overpriced but to those who own them they certainly are not...as one who also owns a high end speaker system I find the TC and other TOTL HP's to be bargains....


----------



## nomad777

jlbrach said:


> to you they are overpriced but to those who own them they certainly are not...as one who also owns a high end speaker system I find the TC and other TOTL HP's to be bargains....



lol... suit  yourself.......


----------



## tholt

Too expensive, bargain, not sure why this is even debated anymore. There will never be a consensus because everyone is coming from different tax brackets, values and mindsets. $5k is a lot for headphones, no doubt. If you look around the field, very very few headphones are priced at that level. In that context, they are expensive. However, they are also amazing headphones that do things other headphones don't. Thus, one could argue you get what you pay for. The market ultimately judges what is a fair price or not. It nobody thought they got their money's worth on some level, they wouldn't be selling for that much.


----------



## jlbrach

bingo, exactly right...I always laugh when people suggest a product is not worth what it costs....well again that is to them not to the people who own and enjoy it....is an expensive bottle of wine worth what it sells for?...well not to me but it is to those who love wine...is a 100K car worth what it costs?...an expensive meal?...a good steak...it is all relative


----------



## lambdastorm

nomad777 said:


> lol... suit  yourself.......


Do you already have the TC?


----------



## nomad777

lambdastorm said:


> Do you already have the TC?



yes


----------



## mulder01

nomad777 said:


> Aluminum ?  Like I said and it looks like I have to keep saying it nothing beats 7N silver for all aspects of sound quality


If you believe the Peter from Double Helix Cables, If someone is selling you 7N silver cable, they are ripping you off.
Scroll about half way down:
https://doublehelixcables.com/faq/


----------



## nomad777 (Dec 3, 2019)

mulder01 said:


> If you believe the Peter from Double Helix Cables, If someone is selling you 7N silver cable, they are ripping you off.
> Scroll about half way down:
> https://doublehelixcables.com/faq/



I don't believe him

A. I already use the cable on my he1000's and its amazing
B. The guy I buy from has a PHD in metallurgy and his father has ties with Japan and the man who created 7n copper cables crystal copper upocc

I'm confident about my knowledge about cables and have tried many and know what I hear.

Have you ever tried 7n silver cables?


----------



## CreditingKarma

nomad777 said:


> I've heard that argument before and don't buy it. Greed is greed. However the question is are people willing to pay your outlandish price and some are. However I will say that will change in the coming years. I do like your honesty though... and that's the crux... if your willing to pay ... then its worth it to you.




I agree that if you look at the abyss compared to speakers in regards to sound quality they are a "value". My speakers cost 4x what the abyss does and they still don't do everything as well as the abyss (until I add 2 subs). To get everything the abyss offers you are looking at spending at least 35-40k. You can get close to the abyss for around $10k but for that last 10% you are going to pay a lot.


----------



## mat.1

CreditingKarma said:


> I agree that if you look at the abyss compared to speakers in regards to sound quality they are a "value". My speakers cost 4x what the abyss does and they still don't do everything as well as the abyss (until I add 2 subs). To get everything the abyss offers you are looking at spending at least 35-40k. You can get close to the abyss for around $10k but for that last 10% you are going to pay a lot.


what amp are you sing for the abyss ? is it directly from Hugo TT2 or Monolith Liquid Platinum ?


----------



## CreditingKarma

mat.1 said:


> what amp are you sing for the abyss ? is it directly from Hugo TT2 or Monolith Liquid Platinum ?



Currently I am using it direct out of the TT2. I used to use it with a metrum onyx and the liquid platinum and it sounded very good. The TT2 is just much more transparent. I have also tried them with an Auris Nirvana and out of a Wells Headtrip lvl2. The headtrip was incredible but there is no way that I would pay $15k for anything with build quality like that.


----------



## mat.1

CreditingKarma said:


> Currently I am using it direct out of the TT2. I used to use it with a metrum onyx and the liquid platinum and it sounded very good. The TT2 is just much more transparent. I have also tried them with an Auris Nirvana and out of a Wells Headtrip lvl2. The headtrip was incredible but there is no way that I would pay $15k for anything with build quality like that.


So you are using it with XLR and 6,3mm adaptor ? is the sound ok and powerful ?
I have the TT2 and considering The TC .


----------



## CreditingKarma

mat.1 said:


> So you are using it with XLR and 6,3mm adaptor ? is the sound ok and powerful ?
> I have the TT2 and considering The TC .



I use the 6.3mm adapter out of the front hp outputs. They sound great that way. Of course you can add an amp and it will add some different flavor to the sound. I also really liked them with the auris but you loose some of the transparency of the TT2 that way.


----------



## mat.1

CreditingKarma said:


> I use the 6.3mm adapter out of the front hp outputs. They sound great that way. Of course you can add an amp and it will add some different flavor to the sound. I also really liked them with the auris but you loose some of the transparency of the TT2 that way.


Thanks. For your suggestion.


----------



## ken6217

lambdastorm said:


> Do you already have the TC?[/QUOT woul





CreditingKarma said:


> I agree that if you look at the abyss compared to speakers in regards to sound quality they are a "value". My speakers cost 4x what the abyss does and they still don't do everything as well as the abyss (until I add 2 subs). To get everything the abyss offers you are looking at spending at least 35-40k. You can get close to the abyss for around $10k but for that last 10% you are going to pay a lot.



Still maybe not. My speakers are 7 times what the Abyss costs and despite very good bass, it’s not as good as Abyss. A main factor working against speakers is your room. It’s the most important piece of equipment in a system. If you spend the money and time, you can optimize it. Sometimes you can’t. Bass is a tricky thing due to the length and amplitude of the sound waves.


----------



## CreditingKarma

ken6217 said:


> Still maybe not. My speakers are 7 times what the Abyss costs and despite very good bass, it’s not as good as Abyss. A main factor working against speakers is your room. It’s the most important piece of equipment in a system. If you spend the money and time, you can optimize it. Sometimes you can’t. Bass is a tricky thing due to the length and amplitude of the sound waves.



To get really good bass you need to have a sizable room. If memory serves me the wave length for 40hz is 28ft. What speakers do you have at home. I know some one who has a pair of Magico M3 and they say that the abyss is on the same level of resolution. I love my Magico S1MKII. They are a 2way floorstander so I do want to add a pair of subs. To me there is just something about the simplicity of a 2 way they seem more coherent.


----------



## ken6217

If you do end up adding the subs, get a tripod, SPL meter, and a test tone disk. It’s time consuming, but play the test tones from 10hz to
120hz and look at SPL meter and move the subwoofers accordingly to get the same levels in each position. 

My main hobby is home theater and so tried to optimize 80hz. 

You are right that two subs are better than one. It makes it smoother and also can cancel out standing waves. 

With good subs and integration, it will be seamless with your speakers.


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Dec 3, 2019)

CreditingKarma said:


> To get really good bass you need to have a sizable room. If memory serves me the wave length for 40hz is 28ft. What speakers do you have at home. I know some one who has a pair of Magico M3 and they say that the abyss is on the same level of resolution. I love my Magico S1MKII. They are a 2way floorstander so I do want to add a pair of subs. To me there is just something about the simplicity of a 2 way they seem more coherent.



I'm with you on that. I have the S1's and an old pair of Merlin VSM's (which I love!). To do two channel right you really need 2 subs (one per speaker). I run 2 JL Audio Fathoms, excellent subs that integrate well.


----------



## mulder01

nomad777 said:


> I don't believe him
> 
> A. I already use the cable on my he1000's and its amazing
> B. The guy I buy from has a PHD in metallurgy and his father has ties with Japan and the man who created 7n copper cables crystal copper upocc
> ...



I have not tried one no, because apparently they don't exist.  They do on alibaba though... 
The link I posted (which I assumed you didn't read), says that the company which can provide the world's only sample of 9N copper (which costs much more than gold), will only make small quantities of 6n silver for the scientific community.  At 6N, there is about 999,999.9 parts per million silver.  
So I simply don't believe you have a 7n silver cable.  It would have had to cost you millions of dollars and whoever made it would have to have access to equipment that no one else in the world has.


----------



## ken6217

It’s possible he has it. Trolls have unlimited abilities and resources to make things happen to make their point.


----------



## ken6217

I have about 100 hours on my TC, and these sound absolutely amazing. I'm so glad I took the plunge!


----------



## nomad777

CreditingKarma said:


> I agree that if you look at the abyss compared to speakers in regards to sound quality they are a "value". My speakers cost 4x what the abyss does and they still don't do everything as well as the abyss (until I add 2 subs). To get everything the abyss offers you are looking at spending at least 35-40k. You can get close to the abyss for around $10k but for that last 10% you are going to pay a lot.



Thing is they are not speakers... they are headphones. I just don't see them justifying the current costs... someone needs to have several houses from the looks of it


----------



## nomad777 (Dec 3, 2019)

mulder01 said:


> I have not tried one no, because apparently they don't exist.  They do on alibaba though...
> The link I posted (which I assumed you didn't read), says that the company which can provide the world's only sample of 9N copper (which costs much more than gold), will only make small quantities of 6n silver for the scientific community.  At 6N, there is about 999,999.9 parts per million silver.
> So I simply don't believe you have a 7n silver cable.  It would have had to cost you millions of dollars and whoever made it would have to have access to equipment that no one else in the world has.



There is more than one company that makes it and your source is incorrect and I guess Nordost are a bunch of liars to then...  I'm just amazed at things people believe without doing the research themselves


----------



## nomad777

ken6217 said:


> It’s possible he has it. Trolls have unlimited abilities and resources to make things happen to make their point.



Ignorance is bliss


----------



## nomad777

ken6217 said:


> I have about 100 hours on my TC, and these sound absolutely amazing. I'm so glad I took the plunge!



I have some land in Saudi Arabia I can sell you


----------



## CreditingKarma

nomad777 said:


> Thing is they are not speakers... they are headphones. I just don't see them justifying the current costs... someone needs to have several houses from the looks of it



Not comparing them as equals. There is no substitute for a great two channel setup. The abyss provide incredible sound for the price  compared to a comparably price speaker system. IMO the abyss is the best sounding headphone available today.


----------



## nomad777

CreditingKarma said:


> Not comparing them as equals. There is no substitute for a great two channel setup. The abyss provide incredible sound for the price  compared to a comparably price speaker system. IMO the abyss is the best sounding headphone available today.



I'd say its a good one of the better ones .. as I posted before overall balanced. There are other headphones that do things better.


----------



## ken6217

nomad777 said:


> I have some land in Saudi Arabia I can sell you



Is there just sand, or is there any 7N silver buried there?


----------



## nomad777

ken6217 said:


> Is there just sand, or is there any 7N silver buried there?



oh there's plenty of gold there I'll send you the papers right away....


----------



## Sage Encore

How come this thread has now morphed into a real estate one? Kids please take your arguements somewhere else. This is a thread for IMHO the best headphones that's available on planet earth and am glad I own one. The pleasure I get everytime I put it on.....priceless.


----------



## lambdastorm

nomad777 said:


> yes


I don't see your point. If you don't think the TC is worth it, why would you buy it in the first place?


----------



## nomad777 (Dec 4, 2019)

lambdastorm said:


> I don't see your point. If you don't think the TC is worth it, why would you buy it in the first place?



I don't think a lot of things are worth what the asking price is but I still own them. Cars, houses, some foods.

But don't worry price corrections are on their way. Heck some of these companies may not even exist in a couple of years.

I'll also say this I didn't pay asking price either. I bargained for months before I bought it and got some major price reductions before I bought it. Mark up on these items is about 30% or more depending. So do the math. Dealer cost is about 3850. I'm certain that the majority of you that bought new paid close to full price. Since the majority of you believe its worth it.

Also these headphones are not perfect. They do have some distortion at certain levels. Like many headphones do. Now this is the TC so here's a review on the earlier version which didn't bode well for Abyss. Perhaps they improved these flaws but I don't really see it... 

Stop being fan boys and come to terms that its overpriced period. If your willing to pay fine then you paid for an overpriced item that you believe is worth it. You may think in terms of justification eg.. they sound amazing; better than a full speaker setup and brainwash yourselves but its overpriced. Don't believe me if some of you are still on here in 1.5 years let's chat then. Many of these companies will be forced to reduce prices. 

Even with the discounts I got which I'm sure the majority of you didn't I still think I its overpriced. 



Open your eyes people......


----------



## Litlgi74

nomad777 said:


> I don't think a lot of things are worth what the asking price is but I still own them. Cars, houses, some foods.
> 
> But don't worry price corrections are on their way. Heck some of these companies may not even exist in a couple of years.
> 
> I'll also say this I didn't pay asking price either. I bargained for months before I bought it and got some major price reductions before I bought it. Mark up on these items is about 30% or more depending. So do the math. Dealer cost is about 3850. I'm certain that the majority of you that bought new paid close to full price. Since the majority of you believe its worth it.


Why are you doing this?


----------



## nomad777 (Dec 4, 2019)

Litlgi74 said:


> Why are you doing this?



For an even playing field and to bring some accountability to vendors that know the prices they are charging now, won't be what they charge later... I don't want to make anyone feel bad about the purchase if they bought now as when you buy something for this price its more of an emotional purchase than a logical one. But I don't like greedy vendors or people for that matter.

I own a pair so... yes I believe its good; but saying its the best ever, or best in the world ... lol....  I'm listening to them now as I type this so .... I like them but let's have a real conversation about what things really are.


----------



## mulder01

nomad777 said:


> There is more than one company that makes it and your source is incorrect and I guess Nordost are a bunch of liars to then...  I'm just amazed at things people believe without doing the research themselves


Nordost?  Even their 6-figure flagship cables use silver plated copper?

I'm going to throw your own logic back at you:  You see, myself, I have cables impregnated with the tears of Satan.  I have a mate who is a certified witch and can descend into hell at his will, torture satan, collect his tears, and return to the realm of the living - where he makes cables for audiophiles.  Have you heard a cable impregnated with the tears of Satan?  No?  Well then your opinion is invalid.  And I believe my mate because he grew up in a family of witches and he is a pretty intimidating looking guy, so he would be able to make old Beelzebub weep for sure.  And if you don't believe me, you should check your facts.  They are equivalent to infinity N silver...

And debating perception of value is sooo first 500 pages of this thread.
Yes, we also realise business have to run at a profit and there is a supply chain.  Jeeeeeeeeez mate, time to move on.  
Wait, why can I feel a thread clean-up looming...


----------



## nomad777 (Dec 4, 2019)

mulder01 said:


> Nordost?  Even their 6-figure flagship cables use silver plated copper?
> 
> I'm going to throw your own logic back at you:  You see, myself, I have cables impregnated with the tears of Satan.  I have a mate who is a certified witch and can descend into hell at his will, torture satan, collect his tears, and return to the realm of the living - where he makes cables for audiophiles.  Have you heard a cable impregnated with the tears of Satan?  No?  Well then your opinion is invalid.  And I believe my mate because he grew up in a family of witches and he is a pretty intimidating looking guy, so he would be able to make old Beelzebub weep for sure.  And if you don't believe me, you should check your facts.  They are equivalent to infinity N silver...
> 
> ...



I didn't say the Nordost cable was pure silver its not

Material:   Silver-plated 99.999999% solid core OFC       copper with how many 9's ? which some say doesn't exist.

So you get one with it mate and do some research before consulting with witches and Satan.


----------



## Litlgi74

nomad777 said:


> For an even playing field and to bring some accountability to vendors that know the prices they are charging now, won't be what they charge later... I don't want to make anyone feel bad about the purchase if they bought now as when you buy something for this price its more of an emotional purchase than a logical one. But I don't like greedy vendors or people for that matter.
> 
> I own a pair so... yes I believe its good; but saying its the best ever, or best in the world ... lol....  I'm listening to them now as I type this so .... I like them but let's have a real conversation about what things really are.


I see... But why are you having the doom and gloom conversation here? Most people who post on this forum are thrilled with their Abyss purchase. New, used, full price, or at a discount... Regardless, most are here to share their joy of listening to this world-class headphone with others... I know am! 

Looking to change the world... Serve it.

Don't worry about the vendors... Let capitalism do it's job... Enjoy the music.


----------



## nomad777

Litlgi74 said:


> I see... But why are you having the doom and gloom conversation here? Most people who post on this forum are thrilled with their Abyss purchase. New, used, full price, or at a discount... Regardless, most are here to share their joy of listening to this world-class headphone with others... I know am!
> 
> Looking to change the world... Serve it.
> me
> Don't worry about the vendors... Let capitalism do it's job... Enjoy the music.



That's the issue... right now we don't have capitalism. One thing is for certain price corrections. 
Agreed... I'll stop with the negativity; but both sides of the coin are needed sometimes.


----------



## mulder01

nomad777 said:


> I didn't say the Nordost cable was pure silver its not
> 
> Material:   Silver-plated 99.999999% solid core OFC       copper with how many 9's ? which some say doesn't exist.
> 
> So you get one with it mate and do some research before consulting with witches and Satan.



Copper up to 9N it said.  Read again.
Silver up to 6

I gotta agree with Litlgi74, why are you here?  You bought an Abyss, you think it's good but not worth the RRP, but you also think many things are not worth the RRP - including houses, cars food etc.  
So you've shared your perception of value and declared that everyone who doesn't agree with you needs to wake up.  Will that be all then?


----------



## nomad777

mulder01 said:


> Copper up to 9N it said.  Read again.
> Silver up to 6
> 
> I gotta agree with Litlgi74, why are you here?  You bought an Abyss, you think it's good but not worth the RRP, but you also think many things are not worth the RRP - including houses, cars food etc.
> So you've shared your perception of value and declared that everyone who doesn't agree with you needs to wake up.  Will that be all then?



I know what is says I posted it. Do not speak for me as I haven't hired you as a spokesperson. I haven't said people can't disagree with me. As for 7N silver direct from the vendor which some say doesn't exist. I've also spoken with Mike from Nordost directly about why they don't use 7N silver. Expense was the main reason. Not the it doesn't exist. I own Valhalla 2 cables a number of them. 

This USB cable uses 99.99998% (7N) Ohno Continuous Cast (OCC) silver signal conductors. Power is also supplied by 99.99998% (7N) Ohno Continuous Cast (OCC) silver conductors.


----------



## Roasty

I'm looking for some good music to listen with the 1266. 

Can u guys share your favourite 5 tracks (on Tidal)? 

Mine are, in no particular order:
1. Evergreen by Yebba
2. Time by Audrey 
3. First Time by Grey, Robinson
4. Jazz Variants by O-zone Percussion Group (love the drums on these)
5. If I Can't Have You by Sara Bereilles (love the bass guitar)


----------



## Articnoise

Value is like beauty very subjective. It is up to everyone to decide for themselves if cables or headphones or whatever is worth getting or not. The cost of all TOTL headphones are indeed very high and only a limited  amount of people are actually prepared to spend that kind of money, still enough does and we have more high end headphones than ever before.

TBH I was not very impressed with the older Abyss. I thought them to be very good in many ways, but had major problem with their tonality and recessed mids. I haven’t heard the TC yet, however from the many impressions I have read it seems like the TC has improved greatly in those areas. I’m eager to hear the TC for myself so I can see if the “improvements” from the older Abyss is fixing the issues I had with them in the past. No matter if the TC will sound exactly as I would like them to or not, if people like and trust Abyss so much to pay the asking price the TC are worth it for them.

Remember that no headphone, DAC or amp is perfect so it ultimately comes down to selecting the gear that have the least imperfections in one’s opinion, aka pick your poison.


----------



## Litlgi74

Roasty said:


> I'm looking for some good music to listen with the 1266.
> 
> Can u guys share your favourite 5 tracks (on Tidal)?
> 
> ...


A welcome diversion...

https://tidal.com/playlist/9ac0de6b-2309-4d68-9629-dae90814cfb5

In no particular order... these tracks get a lot of playtime from me. I mostly love what's going on in the ambient.

The Revenant Main Theme... Ryuichi Sakamoto
Nocturnal... Vacant
Who We Want To Be... Tom Day
Ghost Pong... Emancipator
I Came Running... Ancient Astronauts


----------



## kelvinwsy

I listened to the TC's at the Singapore Meet . It is V Good .. Highs soar and the Mids are more expressive .. This was compared to a Phi/cc on a Woo WA33 using the Superconductor cable. I found the TC superior sounding but did not commit! Finally found a top condition phi/cc for 45% savings. 
I thought the TC sounded like a super improved version of my Senn HD800 with real bass.. I think my Phi/cc filled that gap for a smooth sounding HP with sound stage widtg and depth to die for
So far happy with the Phi/Cc with a danacable lazuli reference! 
Heard tge SR1a at the same meet. Great sounding but way too bright for my tastes.. At the end of the day my HP collection or selection calls for a mix of sound signatures.. There us No perfect HP made yet IMHO


----------



## Roasty

Litlgi74 said:


> A welcome diversion...
> 
> https://tidal.com/playlist/9ac0de6b-2309-4d68-9629-dae90814cfb5
> 
> ...



Thanks! I'm going to add these songs to a new playlist. Will have a listen later today. Cheers!


----------



## ken6217

How about we keep this back on track to what the thread title is. Any other conversation that’s non-relevant keep to PM.


----------



## jlbrach

nomad777 said:


> I don't think a lot of things are worth what the asking price is but I still own them. Cars, houses, some foods.
> 
> But don't worry price corrections are on their way. Heck some of these companies may not even exist in a couple of years.
> 
> ...





what exactly is the point of this discussion?....to inform us that there is no perfect product and everything has flaws or that price is subjective.....enough f this silliness


----------



## JLoud

Ignore. It is a wonderful feature. I used it a couple pages back and have been enjoying this forum so much more.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Very cool video by Linus Tech Tips, we set him up good!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Like I've said...the most "speaker-like" headphones I've ever heard! Well done Joe!


----------



## ken6217

Same here. I'm doubling down on my opinion of the TC. It is so good. I am listening to all of my old music again.


----------



## llamaluv

Joe Skubinski said:


> Very cool video by Linus Tech Tips, we set him up good!


Nice! What a great way to get tech nerds into high-end head-fi. And the perfect Youtube channel through which to do it .


----------



## Litlgi74

ken6217 said:


> Same here. I'm doubling down on my opinion of the TC. It is so good. I am listening to all of my old music again.


Make sure you try out some new stuff as well.


----------



## ken6217

Litlgi74 said:


> Make sure you try out some new stuff as well.



You mean there’s life after the Grateful Dead?


----------



## ufospls2

Joe Skubinski said:


> Very cool video by Linus Tech Tips, we set him up good!




Even the rack! Epic! Thanks for sharing joe : )


----------



## mulder01

That rack and equipment is much bigger than I expected from the photos


----------



## ray-dude

The whole pile was more expensive than the car that was used to drive them there! So easy to get sucked WAY into the rabbit hole with this hobby (guilty Guilty GUILTY as charged 

(Bruce is blaring "Badlands" for hour 80 of breaking in my new TC's....can't wait to give them a proper critical listen tomorrow night!)


----------



## tholt

Joe Skubinski said:


> Very cool video by Linus Tech Tips, we set him up good!



Some serious hardware.


----------



## mat.1

Any suggestion for setting up the abyss with eye glasses ?


----------



## CreditingKarma

mat.1 said:


> Any suggestion for setting up the abyss with eye glasses ?




Glasses should not make a difference with the abyss. They actually a made to sound best with a bit of a gap and no seal.


----------



## mat.1

CreditingKarma said:


> Glasses should not make a difference with the abyss. They actually a made to sound best with a bit of a gap and no seal.


So I just adjust the width until i get a bit of a gap and no seal.

Thanks.


----------



## tholt

mat.1 said:


> Any suggestion for setting up the abyss with eye glasses ?



Abyss are the most glasses friendly headphone I've experienced. Because the best fit is just lightly touching your head, there really is no pressure. I wear glasses and the way I have mine adjusted, it actually sounds worse with my glasses off.


----------



## llamaluv

tholt said:


> Abyss are the most glasses friendly headphone I've experienced. Because the best fit is just lightly touching your head, there really is no pressure. I wear glasses and the way I have mine adjusted, it actually sounds worse with my glasses off.


That's interesting because for me, I can't get the pads far enough away for them _not_ to be pressing against my temples, so wearing glasses with these headphones in particular is the worst. I end up resting the arms of my glasses _on top_ of the pads, which is slightly awkward and probably looks a little dumb, but works out well enough. Either that or I'll just keep my glasses off altogether, the upside being that I can't see hardly anything, which makes focusing on the music that much easier.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I can’t wear glasses comfortably with any of my headphones 

My Susvaras fit the best, but it’s still better with no glasses.

I’ve had a lot of headphones and I don’t think any of them work well with glasses. It’s so bad, I can’t wear headphones at work. I am able to wear my Shure SE-846s though, but those hurt your ears after a bit of time.

I need a glasses friendly pair of closed headphones for work, but that may not be possible


----------



## CreditingKarma

Ciggavelli said:


> I can’t wear glasses comfortably with any of my headphones
> 
> My Susvaras fit the best, but it’s still better with no glasses.
> 
> ...




The noble Khan is my solution for a used back. I also found the best glasses for headphones. A pair of mykita frames they are so thin that I can use them with my focal clears too.


----------



## mat.1

llamaluv said:


> That's interesting because for me, I can't get the pads far enough away for them _not_ to be pressing against my temples, so wearing glasses with these headphones in particular is the worst. I end up resting the arms of my glasses _on top_ of the pads, which is slightly awkward and probably looks a little dumb, but works out well enough. Either that or I'll just keep my glasses off altogether, the upside being that I can't see hardly anything, which makes focusing on the music that much easier.


Same Here ,


----------



## CreditingKarma

mat.1 said:


> Same Here ,



Try bending the frame slightly. There is a video on the abyss YouTube page on this.


----------



## Abyss Headphones (Dec 6, 2019)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC92UBRfTW3oyUwucDsMSFiA/videos


----------



## Sage Encore

llamaluv said:


> That's interesting because for me, I can't get the pads far enough away for them _not_ to be pressing against my temples, so wearing glasses with these headphones in particular is the worst. I end up resting the arms of my glasses _on top_ of the pads, which is slightly awkward and probably looks a little dumb, but works out well enough. Either that or I'll just keep my glasses off altogether, the upside being that I can't see hardly anything, which makes focusing on the music that much easier.


That's exactly what I do to.


----------



## tholt

llamaluv said:


> That's interesting because for me, I can't get the pads far enough away for them _not_ to be pressing against my temples, so wearing glasses with these headphones in particular is the worst. I end up resting the arms of my glasses _on top_ of the pads, which is slightly awkward and probably looks a little dumb, but works out well enough. Either that or I'll just keep my glasses off altogether, the upside being that I can't see hardly anything, which makes focusing on the music that much easier.



Huh, interesting. Idk, maybe I have a narrower head  The headphones fit very loosely, almost no pressure from the ear pads. When I shake my head gently, the headphones sort of swivel on top of my head. As a result, there is very little pressure on my glasses. Other headphones more or less clamp to your head, which I've always felt was a bit uncomfortable with glasses on depending on the pressure. Not so here. As others have suggested, there is the option of bending the frame out a little. Easy enough to experiment


----------



## ekfc63 (Dec 7, 2019)

Received my Dave yesterday.  Have a had about 30 mins of listening time so far.  What a nice step up in fluidity and realism from the TT2.  I plugged my Abyss 1266 TC in and the Dave seems able to drive them OK.  I’m picking up a Hifiman HE adapter today so that I can try using a speaker amp.

Question.  For those who use a headphone amplifier with Dave what mode do you use?  The manual says to “never use DAC mode when connecting directly to a power amplifier”

Also is there a difference between BNC 1&2 vs 3&4?  Apologies if this has been covered before but there are over 900 pages to this thread!


----------



## simorag

ekfc63 said:


> Question. For those who use a headphone amplifier with Dave what mode do you use?



I use Digital Pre (fixed output -3dB).


----------



## Roasty

the Woo Audio 22 is such a joy.. especially with the 1266.

Got a bit more annoyed with the highs on the 1266 recently after listening with the Empy for a few days.

Swapped out the EML5u4g, WE421A and Mullard ECC35 for Mullard GZ32, Mullard 6080 and TungSol 6sn7gt bad boys. Getting a much more balanced and fuller sound now. Also can raise the volume quite a fair bit more without the highs becoming too thin and piercing.

Came across this album "the wandering of the avener" and am really enjoying the beats.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> the Woo Audio 22 is such a joy.. especially with the 1266.
> 
> Got a bit more annoyed with the highs on the 1266 recently after listening with the Empy for a few days.
> 
> ...



You can’t get mad at the 1266 for that. You're looking at the wrong culprit.


----------



## Roasty

ken6217 said:


> You can’t get mad at the 1266 for that. You're looking at the wrong culprit.



Eehhh... What?
Culprit? Mad?


----------



## jlbrach

formula s/powerman....perfect compliment IMHO


----------



## ken6217

I just meant that it’s the amp/tubes. That was a figure of speech


----------



## Roasty

ken6217 said:


> I just meant that it’s the amp/tubes. That was a figure of speech



Ah.. I get it.


----------



## ken6217

Honestly, Iam so susceptible to sharp highs and sibilance. I recently got the TC to compliment my Empyrean and V281 combo. I was concerned that the TC would be to bright sounding for me. 

However it is not at all, with that amp or the Simaudio 600i.


----------



## Litlgi74

You're using a Simaudio 600i... That's crazy!!!  You going to blow your headphones and eardrums. Lol.


----------



## ken6217

Maybe the headphones, but not my ears. I blew them out at the last Guns N Roses concert.


----------



## Sage Encore

Litlgi74 said:


> You're using a Simaudio 600i... That's crazy!!!  You going to blow your headphones and eardrums. Lol.


LOL. Have yours blown? Just kidding, I, after many moons of pondering if I should drive them using a 2-channel amp, finally took the plunge and bought a SPEC. My Simaudio HAD430 is now up for sale. 

Hope to hear the Abyss driven by a Simaudio 600i, but am just so enjoying my SPEC now.


----------



## ken6217

I didn’t realize how much difference it would make. 

When I first hooked up the 600i, it sounded better than the V281. After a few days I decided to hook up the V281 again to hear how it sounded again. The difference was greater. The V281 sounded flat and uninvolving.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Dec 8, 2019)

Sage Encore said:


> LOL. Have yours blown? Just kidding, I, after many moons of pondering if I should drive them using a 2-channel amp, finally took the plunge and bought a SPEC. My Simaudio HAD430 is now up for sale.
> 
> Hope to hear the Abyss driven by a Simaudio 600i, but am just so enjoying my SPEC now.



Haha... What? I can't hear you... The music is too loud... or I'm going deaf. Lol.

Love my amp... There is no way it will blow up my headphones. I don't really subscribe to audiophile terminology... Other than it sounds glorious!


----------



## Sage Encore

Litlgi74 said:


> Haha... What? I can't hear you... The music is to loud... or I'm going deaf. Lol.
> 
> Love my amp... There is no way it will blow up my headphones. I don't really subscribe to audiophile terminology... Other than it sounds glorious!


Hi Lit,
I'm sure it does. Simaudio make really good stuff, thats why I bought the HAD430. But now with the SPEC it a totally different ball game. Enjoy sir.


----------



## Benny-x

Sage Encore said:


> Hi Lit,
> I'm sure it does. Simaudio make really good stuff, thats why I bought the HAD430. But now with the SPEC it a totally different ball game. Enjoy sir.



What SPEC amp do you have? And how are you handling volume control? Only via the DAC?


----------



## Jon L

Well, the Abyss 1266 Phi TC is here, on continuous play mainly to burn in the stock cable.  
But already, I can tell this is not going to be love at first sight, requiring long process of system tuning around the Abyss and probably a lot more $$$ into cables, tweaks.  
Even after all that, I don't think it will ever match Stax SR009, but we shall see...




1207192152 by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## Litlgi74

Jon L said:


> Well, the Abyss 1266 Phi TC is here, on continuous play mainly to burn in the stock cable.
> But already, I can tell this is not going to be love at first sight, requiring long process of system tuning around the Abyss and probably a lot more $$$ into cables, tweaks.
> Even after all that, I don't think it will ever match Stax SR009, but we shall see...
> 
> ...


Congrats and welcome to our world... The Money Pit.


----------



## ken6217

Most of the tuning that you will need to do it fitting them for optimum sound.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Jon L said:


> Well, the Abyss 1266 Phi TC is here, on continuous play mainly to burn in the stock cable.
> But already, I can tell this is not going to be love at first sight, requiring long process of system tuning around the Abyss and probably a lot more $$$ into cables, tweaks.
> Even after all that, I don't think it will ever match Stax SR009, but we shall see...
> 
> ...



Welcome I actually prefer the AB-1266 TC over the stax sr009s even driven by the blue Hawaii se. What are you using to drive the abyss? Also from my experience I prefer the stock cable over aftermarket offerings. JPS makes some great cables.


----------



## llamaluv

On the question of aftermarket headphone cables, I'm currently using these adapters from affinitycables eBay store so as to try out my pre-existing Utopia cables with the TC.

I've never gotten the sense in using these currently or in the past that the affinitycables adapters affect transparency in a noticeable way (though of course that's been hard to verify). They have, however, gone up in price, which make them harder to justify now IMO. 

Anyway, I'm preferring the now-discontinued *Wireworld Nano Platinum Eclipse *cable (I hate that name) for the Utopia, connected via adapter to the TC, over the stock Abyss cable. The stock cable gives me a shade too much in the upper-mids part of the spectrum, which the WW cable rectifies. The WW cable also goes deeper into the bass. None of this is night-and-day, though. Both are equally dynamic. If I have the opportunity, I may try and source a dedicated WW cable expressly terminated for the Abyss.

The other Utopia cable I have, a custom build made of *Neotech 23AWG solid core silver*, is smoother sounding and also a touch warmer than the stock cable (subjectively at least), but also probably less dynamic, so is not as interesting with the TC based on my preferences.

Note, too, that while both of these cables are silver, IMO neither results in a brighter tonality compared to stock, which is in any case very "neutral" (non-warm) in color.


----------



## Jon L (Dec 8, 2019)

CreditingKarma said:


> Welcome I actually prefer the AB-1266 TC over the stax sr009s even driven by the blue Hawaii se. What are you using to drive the abyss? Also from my experience I prefer the stock cable over aftermarket offerings. JPS makes some great cables.



I've always felt Blue Hawaii SE truly only synergizes well with Omega II..
That and the fact other 'stat amps that would go well with SR009 (T2, etc) are unobtanium and/or extremely expensive has brought me to my current solution of Elekit 300B SET/transformer.  Transformer shows its limits when driving difficult O2 but not so much when driving SR009.  The fact Elekit sounds extremely dynamic and detailed compared to the usual SET helps elicit goosebumps.  Elekit's headphone jack is also reported to synergize well with Abyss.

BTW.  I am so far very impressed with how well the $260 SMSL SP200 THX amp is driving the Abyss.  Quite shocking, actually..




1208191031_HDR by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## Sage Encore

CreditingKarma said:


> Welcome I actually prefer the AB-1266 TC over the stax sr009s even driven by the blue Hawaii se. What are you using to drive the abyss? Also from my experience I prefer the stock cable over aftermarket offerings. JPS makes some great cables.


Hi,
U must be an exception with regards to stock cable, most I know have upgraded including me. I personally use the Norne audio S3 cables which I finf sound fanatstic on my setup. I have always wanted to try out the Prion 4 cables though. Anyways, enjoy the music sir.


----------



## Sage Encore

Benny-x said:


> What SPEC amp do you have? And how are you handling volume control? Only via the DAC?


My SPEC is an intergrated amp RSA-V1 (No more in production). My DAC is the Terminator, hence no volume control.


----------



## tholt

Sage Encore said:


> U must be an exception with regards to stock cable, most I know have upgraded including me.



I haven't tried any other cables than stock, however, I'm not really compelled to either. I would think changing cables would be highly subjective and more for tailoring to individual tastes vs a universally "better" cable. The stock cable is excellent with respect to most things audiophiles would consider high-fidelity, including soundstage. It also strikes me as very neutral. IMHO


----------



## JLoud

I'm using the Norne S3 cable as well. Very nice sounding cable, and looks the part as well. I didn't have any particular complaints with the stock cables sound. But ergonomically it was terrible.


----------



## tholt

JLoud said:


> But ergonomically it was terrible.



I can't argue with that


----------



## Sage Encore

tholt said:


> I haven't tried any other cables than stock, however, I'm not really compelled to either. I would think changing cables would be highly subjective and more for tailoring to individual tastes vs a universally "better" cable. The stock cable is excellent with respect to most things audiophiles would consider high-fidelity, including soundstage. It also strikes me as very neutral. IMHO


You are lucky in the sense that u have not tried other cables. LOL. Personally I find the OG cable to be a tad harsh and the mids are not as sweet as I would like them to be, but that's just me. Enjoy the music.


----------



## tholt

^ The mids took the longest to get right for me too. Regardless of what I tried, they always sounded a little thin to me, a bit cold and bitey. With such high resolution and extension, I was really craving more warmth and fullness there. It finally took a tube amp to do that. I don't think the cable is particularly warm as well, so if you're looking for a bit warmth you have to work at it. But it's such a nice balance if you find something that checks all the boxes


----------



## Jon L

JLoud said:


> I'm using the Norne S3 cable as well. Very nice sounding cable, and looks the part as well. I didn't have any particular complaints with the stock cables sound. But ergonomically it was terrible.





Sage Encore said:


> You are lucky in the sense that u have not tried other cables. LOL. Personally I find the OG cable to be a tad harsh and the mids are not as sweet as I would like them to be, but that's just me. Enjoy the music.



It's interesting that people went with all-silver Norne S3 cable with the Abyss.  I was personally looking at Norne silver-copper Einvaldi Reference, which are similar in price.  Anyone compare them?
So far I'm getting the sense that the stock cable does certain things extremely well, e.g. ironfisted control over frequency ranges and resolution, fantastic bass solidity and slam, sense of dead-neutrality. 
While audiophile-quality recordings and even pop/rock albums of recent vintage sound great, I agree that many (most?) non-audiophile recordings and older pop/rock albums can sound "a tad harsh and the mids are not as sweet."  What cable retains ALL the strengths of stock cable while slightly transforming the smidge of unforgiveness/bite into bit more breathy wetness?


----------



## Roasty

Jon L said:


> It's interesting that people went with all-silver Norne S3 cable with the Abyss.  I was personally looking at Norne silver-copper Einvaldi Reference, which are similar in price.  Anyone compare them?
> So far I'm getting the sense that the stock cable does certain things extremely well, e.g. ironfisted control over frequency ranges and resolution, fantastic bass solidity and slam, sense of dead-neutrality.
> While audiophile-quality recordings and even pop/rock albums of recent vintage sound great, I agree that many (most?) non-audiophile recordings and older pop/rock albums can sound "a tad harsh and the mids are not as sweet."  What cable retains ALL the strengths of stock cable while slightly transforming the smidge of unforgiveness/bite into bit more breathy wetness?



Silver + copper may be a good idea.. I contemplated the lazuli ultra. Anyone here tried it with the 1266? I tried the all copper lazuli reference and preferred the stock cable to it.


----------



## ekfc63 (Dec 9, 2019)

Roasty said:


> Silver + copper may be a good idea.. I contemplated the lazuli ultra. Anyone here tried it with the 1266? I tried the all copper lazuli reference and preferred the stock cable to it.



I’m completely opposite.  I much prefer the Lazuli Reference to the stock cable.  I find the stock cable sounds a bit thin and flat in comparison.  Go figure.  The Superconductor is another story altogether.


----------



## ekfc63 (Dec 9, 2019)

On another note I took delivery of a Chord Dave a couple of days ago.  I’ve spent a few hours today comparing my TCs direct into the Dave vs Hifiman HE adapter and speaker amp (Teddy Pardo ST60).  Much to my surprise I prefer direct.  Much more transparent.  More surprising to me is that the Dave seems to be able to comfortably drive the TCs to the levels I like to listen at (I usually listen to my 2 channel at +/- 85dB).  I wasn’t expecting this.  Upon checking further the TC efficiency is stated as 88db/mW which isn’t horribly low.  The original 1266 was 85db/mW which is quite a bit lower and may explain the chatter about 1266s needing tons of power.


----------



## Tsyer

Jon L said:


> I am so far very impressed with how well the $260 SMSL SP200 THX amp is driving the Abyss. Quite shocking, actually..



Tested this pairing for an hour. It is very good with gain set at low on SMSL SP200. I never thought it could drive my Abyss Phi CC but it works. Source was Kann Cube with mini xlr out to xlr input. For reference my main rig is Benchmark hpa4 and X1 Audio Formula S with Abyss Phi TC. The SP200 is probably the cheapest amp that can be used with Abyss Phi CC n TC .


----------



## ken6217

ekfc63 said:


> On another note I took delivery of a Chord Dave a couple of days ago.  I’ve spent a few hours today comparing my TCs direct into the Dave vs Hifiman HE adapter and speaker amp (Teddy Pardo ST60).  Much to my surprise I prefer direct.  Much more transparent.  More surprising to me is that the Dave seems to be able to comfortably drive the TCs to the levels I like to listen at (I usually listen to my 2 channel at +/- 85dB).  I wasn’t expecting this.  Upon checking further the TC efficiency is stated as 88db/mW which isn’t horribly low.  The original 1266 was 85db/mW which is quite a bit lower and may explain the chatter about 1266s needing tons of power.



i assume your know that an amp playing headphones loud didn’t mean it is powering it efficiently or to the headphones sonic potential. 

Pretty much any amp can play something loud, but that doesn’t mean it sounds as good as playing it with an amp that’s really up to the task.


----------



## ekfc63 (Dec 10, 2019)

ken6217 said:


> i assume your know that an amp playing headphones loud didn’t mean it is powering it efficiently or to the headphones sonic potential.
> 
> Pretty much any amp can play something loud, but that doesn’t mean it sounds as good as playing it with an amp that’s really up to the task.




I hear you.  I used to have Linn Kans in the '80s and '90s which were 86db/W or something like that with a Naim Nait 1 (16W). The combo was very good even with the Nait's flea level power output.  The Kans got better as I moved up the Naim ladder (160, 250 and finally 135s).
I'm only a few days into Dave ownership and one day into comparing direct vs speaker amp.  So far the differences aren't as pronounced as I expected.  My next step is to try an adapter and plug the Abyss directly into the speaker amp.  Maybe the Hifiman HE adapter is reducing the chain's potential.

Reading an earlier post by Rob Watts (#845 on the Dave thread) he stated that the Dave, which puts out 1.4W at 33ohms, could drive the HE1000 (90dB/mW 33ohms) with ease.  Can an electrically savvy Headfier translate the Daves watts for the Abyss TC's 88db/mW at 47ohms?


----------



## ray-dude

I just got a set of TC's and immediately plugged them into my DAVE.  I run them comfortably at -7 to -10dB.  The DAVE tops out at ~ +6dB so there is plenty of headroom to drive them as loud as you want.

I don't think the concern is loudness though.  I think it is rather about the level of control the amp is able to impose on the drivers: the higher the current reserves and absolute current delivery speed of the amp, the more control to start and stop the single transducer across the wide spectral range it has to operate.  Of course, the DAVE has the most transparent amp I've every heard (I drive my speakers direct from it as a result...104dB sensitivity Voxativ 9.87's)  Any amp in the chain will result in some loss of transparency (hopefully minimal) but will trade off against most control across the spectral range.

I have a banana to XLR on order, and a buddy's Schitt Aegir amp and Benchmark ABH2 amp on loan for the week.  Looking forward to putting my understanding to test once my adapter arrives.


----------



## jlbrach

when I listen to my TC direct from my dave/blue2 I tend to listen from -10 to 0 for the most part  with an occasional acoustic jazz recording requiring up to + 5....I do find I prefer for the most part using the dave with my formula s/powerman but not always....


----------



## bearwarrior

Jon L said:


> Well, the Abyss 1266 Phi TC is here, on continuous play mainly to burn in the stock cable.
> But already, I can tell this is not going to be love at first sight, requiring long process of system tuning around the Abyss and probably a lot more $$$ into cables, tweaks.
> Even after all that, I don't think it will ever match Stax SR009, but we shall see...
> 
> ...



Wow. Same collections here. Happy listening.


----------



## ekfc63 (Dec 10, 2019)

ray-dude said:


> I just got a set of TC's and immediately plugged them into my DAVE.  I run them comfortably at -7 to -10dB.  The DAVE tops out at ~ +6dB so there is plenty of headroom to drive them as loud as you want.
> 
> I don't think the concern is loudness though.  I think it is rather about the level of control the amp is able to impose on the drivers: the higher the current reserves and absolute current delivery speed of the amp, the more control to start and stop the single transducer across the wide spectral range it has to operate.  Of course, the DAVE has the most transparent amp I've every heard (I drive my speakers direct from it as a result...104dB sensitivity Voxativ 9.87's)  Any amp in the chain will result in some loss of transparency (hopefully minimal) but will trade off against most control across the spectral range.
> 
> I have a banana to XLR on order, and a buddy's Schitt Aegir amp and Benchmark ABH2 amp on loan for the week.  Looking forward to putting my understanding to test once my adapter arrives.




I’m on the same path.  Ted at Headphone Lounge is making an adapter up for me so that I can connect to my speaker amp direct.


----------



## ekfc63

jlbrach said:


> when I listen to my TC direct from my dave/blue2 I tend to listen from -10 to 0 for the most part  with an occasional acoustic jazz recording requiring up to + 5....I do find I prefer for the most part using the dave with my formula s/powerman but not always....



What makes you prefer to use the Formula S / powerman over Dave direct?


----------



## jlbrach

they have more grunt, the soundstage is bigger the bass is more powerful and the dynamics in orchestral pieces more impressive..with the dave alone it is a more refined sound with a touch more transparency....you cant lose either way to be honest


----------



## Marco_tam

Jon L said:


> It's interesting that people went with all-silver Norne S3 cable with the Abyss.  I was personally looking at Norne silver-copper Einvaldi Reference, which are similar in price.  Anyone compare them?
> So far I'm getting the sense that the stock cable does certain things extremely well, e.g. ironfisted control over frequency ranges and resolution, fantastic bass solidity and slam, sense of dead-neutrality.
> While audiophile-quality recordings and even pop/rock albums of recent vintage sound great, I agree that many (most?) non-audiophile recordings and older pop/rock albums can sound "a tad harsh and the mids are not as sweet."  What cable retains ALL the strengths of stock cable while slightly transforming the smidge of unforgiveness/bite into bit more breathy wetness?



I have been using Einvaldi with my Abyss for more than a week now. While I do not have Norne S3 to compare with Einvaldi, I was able to compare it with the stock cable. To my ears, Einvaldi brings deeper and tighter bass to the table. On the mids, relatively speaking, the stock cable sounds thinner while Einvaldi sounds warmer and adds more density to vocals. 

Actually I am quite curious how the Superconductor sounds in comparison, but the price is really...


----------



## tholt

ekfc63 said:


> Ted at Headphone Lounge is making one up for me so that I can connect to the speaker amp direct.



Just got my adapter cables from Ted 3 days ago. They're working out well.


----------



## Dcman

Hello there,

After following this thread for quite some time my crazy wife came up with this ridiculous idea of getting me a turntable + a pair of random headphones...
I will compare the sound to the LCD-2 in the near future as well 


















Best Wishes


----------



## Litlgi74

Dcman said:


> Hello there,
> 
> After following this thread for quite some time my crazy wife came up with this ridiculous idea of getting me a turntable + a pair of random headphones...
> I will compare the sound to the LCD-2 in the near future as well
> ...



Welcome to the club.
Does she know she purchased you a pair of Abyss headphones? Lol


----------



## Dcman (Dec 10, 2019)

Thanks, Litlgi74! 

She said so but who knows it... 

I am trying to align the pads over and over again because the bass is distorted ever so slightly on the right channel. I also noticed that they feel pretty tight even though I opened the headband as much as I could. Did you experience some similar issues at first?

Regards


----------



## JLoud

Watch the video on the Abyss website. You can flex the sides out to make them wider.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Dec 10, 2019)

Dcman said:


> Thanks, Litlgi74!
> 
> She said so but who knows it...
> 
> ...


Yes, similar problems when I first got mine too. You may need to bend them out (there’s an Abyss video online that shows you how to do that). Also, distortion occurs for me when the pads are too far away from my head. That includes distance and pad angle related to your head. You’ll figure it out, and you’re in for a treat. Congrats on the headphones


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS (Dec 11, 2019)

Delete.


----------



## Sage Encore

Tsyer said:


> Tested this pairing for an hour. It is very good with gain set at low on SMSL SP200. I never thought it could drive my Abyss Phi CC but it works. Source was Kann Cube with mini xlr out to xlr input. For reference my main rig is Benchmark hpa4 and X1 Audio Formula S with Abyss Phi TC. The SP200 is probably the cheapest amp that can be used with Abyss Phi CC n TC .


Please read Ken's reply.


----------



## ken6217 (Dec 11, 2019)

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> Hey, Mr. @llamaluv is your pm not working? I wanted to come check out your TC if that was possible.



You off your meds? That's a pretty odd way of asking someone for a favor.


----------



## joseph69

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> Hey, Mr. @llamaluv is your pm not working? I wanted to come check out your TC if that was possible.


LMAO!!!


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS (Dec 11, 2019)

delete this too. My response was a little childish.


----------



## nyceg

Hi everyone, I have benefited a great deal from reading your postings.  After quite a bit of time saving up and after several auditions, I decided to purchase the 1266 TC headphones.  As excited as I'm feeling right now, I'm also confronted with the daunting task of spending money on a new amp and a new DAC (this endeavor will elevate me several atmosphere above what I currently have with my Grado setup and nothing I own will be able to even drive the Abyss).  Any recommends would be greatly appreciated.  Aside from your input on how the components sound, I have created a list of demands: 1. I'd prefer the solid state over tube for the amp; 2. I'd like a stand alone amp and stand alone DAC; 3. As much as I'd like to support the smaller manufactures, I'd prefer a reputable house (from the US, Germany, Japan) that's been around for a while; 4. Lastly, and this is more of a sentiment than a firm position, I'd like for the components to be balanced.  I've budgeted $2,000-3,000 for the amp and $1,600 to 2,000 for the DAC, and on the shortlist I currently have the Benchmark HPA4 and Luxman P-750u, and the Benchmark DAC3 and the Chord Qutest.  Thank you for the attention you have given my post.


----------



## ken6217

I’ll let other people that may have more knowledge in helping picking the components for you, I will say to buy used. Much more value for your money and allows you to buy components more expensive than what you want to pay. 

Based on your budget for the two components, you should be able to compliment your Abyss very well. 

Also, don’t get the Qutest. When I auditioned the TC, this is what they had and it was lousy. Also it is single ended output and not balanced.


----------



## Litlgi74

nyceg said:


> Hi everyone, I have benefited a great deal from reading your postings.  After quite a bit of time saving up and after several auditions, I decided to purchase the 1266 TC headphones.  As excited as I'm feeling right now, I'm also confronted with the daunting task of spending money on a new amp and a new DAC (this endeavor will elevate me several atmosphere above what I currently have with my Grado setup and nothing I own will be able to even drive the Abyss).  Any recommends would be greatly appreciated.  Aside from your input on how the components sound, I have created a list of demands: 1. I'd prefer the solid state over tube for the amp; 2. I'd like a stand alone amp and stand alone DAC; 3. As much as I'd like to support the smaller manufactures, I'd prefer a reputable house (from the US, Germany, Japan) that's been around for a while; 4. Lastly, and this is more of a sentiment than a firm position, I'd like for the components to be balanced.  I've budgeted $2,000-3,000 for the amp and $1,600 to 2,000 for the DAC, and on the shortlist I currently have the Benchmark HPA4 and Luxman P-750u, and the Benchmark DAC3 and the Chord Qutest.  Thank you for the attention you have given my post.



Welcome to the club...

Are you opposed to buying used equipment? There are great deals to be had on summit-fi gear for pennies on the dollar... All my gear was purchased as a demo or second hand... Saving thousands of dollars! You can even find used gear with remaining factory warranties.

There are great things to check out in the For Sale / Trade section of this forum.


----------



## ken6217

Litlgi74 said:


> Welcome to the club...
> 
> Are you opposed to buying used equipment? There are great deals to be had on summit-fi gear for pennies on the dollar... All my gear was purchased as a demo or second hand... Saving thousands of dollars! You can even find used gear with remaining factory warranties.
> 
> There are great things to check out in the For Sale / Trade section of this forum.



Also check out Audiogon and USA Audiomart as well.


----------



## Litlgi74

ken6217 said:


> Also check out Audiogon and USA Audiomart as well.


Great minds!

And be careful of Hifishark... Lots of scams.


----------



## CreditingKarma

nyceg said:


> Hi everyone, I have benefited a great deal from reading your postings.  After quite a bit of time saving up and after several auditions, I decided to purchase the 1266 TC headphones.  As excited as I'm feeling right now, I'm also confronted with the daunting task of spending money on a new amp and a new DAC (this endeavor will elevate me several atmosphere above what I currently have with my Grado setup and nothing I own will be able to even drive the Abyss).  Any recommends would be greatly appreciated.  Aside from your input on how the components sound, I have created a list of demands: 1. I'd prefer the solid state over tube for the amp; 2. I'd like a stand alone amp and stand alone DAC; 3. As much as I'd like to support the smaller manufactures, I'd prefer a reputable house (from the US, Germany, Japan) that's been around for a while; 4. Lastly, and this is more of a sentiment than a firm position, I'd like for the components to be balanced.  I've budgeted $2,000-3,000 for the amp and $1,600 to 2,000 for the DAC, and on the shortlist I currently have the Benchmark HPA4 and Luxman P-750u, and the Benchmark DAC3 and the Chord Qutest.  Thank you for the attention you have given my post.




I would recommend the Chord TT2. I know that you are looking at separates but the dac in the TT2 is incredible and they have enough power to drive the Abyss well. Then you can add an mscaler later. They are currently msrp of $5,700 but we worth it imo.


----------



## ken6217

CreditingKarma said:


> I would recommend the Chord TT2. I know that you are looking at separates but the dac in the TT2 is incredible and they have enough power to drive the Abyss well. Then you can add an mscaler later. They are currently msrp of $5,700 but we worth it imo.



There’s a used for sale from The Music Room for $4350.00. However with that said, we should find out what sounds signature he likes. For me personally I dislike any of offerings from Chord. He may or may not like that sound.
.


----------



## CreditingKarma

ken6217 said:


> There’s a used for sale from The Music Room for $4350.00. However with that said, we should find out what sounds signature he likes. For me personally I dislike any of offerings from Chord. He may or may not like that sound.
> .




Agreed the one thing with the tt2 and other chord dacs is the transparency that they offer. I used to have a metrum onyx and paired it with a liquid platinum and that combo was great too. I use the tt2 in my 2 channel setup as well and there I really preferred it over the onyx. Have you tried the chord dacs with the mscaler? It really brings them to another level.

What did you not like with the qutest? The TT2 is  fuller sounding imo. Also Chord gear is based on single ended design. Balanced really has no sonic benefit with their gear you just get a higher output voltage from them. The TT2 and Dave both have balanced outs if you need them.


----------



## ekfc63

CreditingKarma said:


> I would recommend the Chord TT2. I know that you are looking at separates but the dac in the TT2 is incredible and they have enough power to drive the Abyss well. Then you can add an mscaler later. They are currently msrp of $5,700 but we worth it imo.



I'd second this.  Until very recently I was using this combo.  A great pairing.


----------



## ken6217

I listened the TT and the Hugo 2 and found them to clinical and analytical and thin sounding. 

I wouldn’t even consider the Cutest as even midfi. 

That is an untrue statement regarding a balanced design. Having an amplifier that is truly balanced from input to output is absolutely has sonic benefits. Do you think that hi end speaker amplifier companies make amps with this design for no sonic benefits, and just so it has higher voltage output?


----------



## Pastwa

ken6217 said:


> Do you think that hi end speaker amplifier companies make amps with this design for no sonic benefits, and just so it has higher voltage output?



Most of them don't even have truly balanced construction, so yes, it is pretty much a tick box exercise in many cases. XLR outputs for this very reason could be actually even inferior to a high-quality SE path/outputs, they do look 'professional' dough and might have a real advantage if implemented properly. I would say recording studios tend to benefit from XLR connections, especially if the cables run for hundreds of metres, then any external noise getting to the signal path is much lower compared to the SE connection. In-home conditions it won't matter much if at all.


----------



## ken6217 (Dec 11, 2019)

Pastwa said:


> Most of them don't even have truly balanced construction, so yes, it is pretty much a tick box exercise in many cases. XLR outputs for this very reason could be actually even inferior to a high-quality SE path/outputs, they do look 'professional' dough and might have a real advantage if implemented properly. I would say recording studios tend to benefit from XLR connections, especially if the cables run for hundreds of metres, then any external noise getting to the signal path is much lower compared to the SE connection. In-home conditions it won't matter much if at all.



I’m can’t speak for other people. I can only speak for my own equipment and own personal first hand knowledge. My monoblock amps at $20,000 a pair and are truly balanced from input to output.

You don’t give a good  argument by saying that most amplifier companies just tick the box to make it appear balanced. I can’t make a generalization.I’m talking about audiophile equipment, not pretend equipment.

Yes, there are amplifiers made as you described, and offering XLR out might be just a convenience. but not all amps are like that.


----------



## Pastwa

Kondo Ongaku, one of the best sonically amplifiers (60k$) don't even bother with XLR connections. I didn't give any valid argument because there isn't one, and it applies to both connections. It is purely a matter of the user preference, assuming both connections are done well.


----------



## JLoud

I have a HeadAmp GSX mk2 and it sounds fantastic with my TC. Also it is a balanced design. $3000. I talked to HeadAmp direct and they mentioned the new GSX mini powers the Abyss very well. It has a little warmer sound compared to the mk2. It runs $1800 I believe. Consider a Schiit Yggydrasil, very nice DAC. Also true balanced design.


----------



## tholt

^ That's good info re: the GSX mini, had wondered that from time to time. I also like that it has a warmer signature. I personally feel these headphones sound better with a bit of warmth.


----------



## sennfan83261 (Dec 11, 2019)

It took four years (a little over the average of three years), but JPS Labs was recently awarded its first US patent titled "Single magnet planar-magnetic transducer."

https://patents.google.com/patent/US10455343B2


----------



## MacedonianHero

JLoud said:


> I have a HeadAmp GSX mk2 and it sounds fantastic with my TC. Also it is a balanced design. $3000. I talked to HeadAmp direct and they mentioned the new GSX mini powers the Abyss very well. It has a little warmer sound compared to the mk2. It runs $1800 I believe. Consider a Schiit Yggydrasil, very nice DAC. Also true balanced design.



I actually prefer the GS_X mini's warmer signature with the TC...but the detail extraction might be a tad better on the GS-X Mk2. Both are awesome choices IMO.


----------



## mulder01

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> delete this too. My response was a little childish.


Don't drink and head-fi


----------



## tholt

mulder01 said:


> Don't drink and head-fi


----------



## nyceg

Thanks everyone for your replies.  The culture on head-fi never ceases to impress me.  

@ken6217 -- While I agree with you about buying used for all of the reasons you've mentioned, I simply am not able to stomach the risk with this purchase.  As @Litlgi74 mentioned, "...be careful of Hifishark...Lots of scams."  You're also notvthe first person to advise against the Qutest.  There's a review on Youtube by John Darko () that spoke about this DAC with an amazing amount of enthusiasm, which is why it landed on my shortlist.  I've listened to the Qutest with lesser headphones and kind of liked it -- and I actually met Rob Watts, who's a very nice guy -- but was also told that it sounds "thin" through the 1266 TC.

@Litlgi74 -- Thank you for welcoming me to the club!  I feel honored to be in such good company and grateful that I was able to save so much money for such expensive cans.  The factor that helped finalize this decision was that no part of the headphone actually touched my ears.  I felt no hot spots on my ears and while the only other headphone that came close in comfort was the HD800, but it just does not sound nowhere near as good.  I agree with your pennies on the dollar remark, but these would be pennies I will not be able to recover if a month down the road I paid for a lemon.

@CreditingKarma -- I spent a few hours last night reading every review I could find on the Chord TT2.  I hadn't considered it before because it wasn't two separate units.  I'm still attached to the opinion, although now less so, that a good amps should have a longer shelf life than even the most expensive DAC, and not having two standalone units might put me at a disadvantage of not being able to upgrade one while keeping the other.  On the other hand, aside from the weird ergonomics, I read that the TT2 was even preferred over the Berkeley Audio Alpha DAC Series 2.

@ken6217 -- I've never had to articulate the kind of sound I like and I'll try my best to do so without sounding too much like an idiot.  The headphones I use now are the Grado SR-325e and I like them with the Luxman DA-250, particularly because they do well with rock and jazz and I guess I like the Grado "house sound."  However, my Grados don't really need an amp or high res music because while they're a forgiving headphone, they not terribly resolving and the soundstage is narrow.  Not until I heard the SR-009s did I believe that there could be something much better than my Grados (according to my taste).  I fell in love with the amount of detail I could hear, however I did not perceive it had a particularly full sound or as emotional as dynamic headphones.  In short, I am hoping to extract what I liked about the Stax with the 1266, but with a warmer and more bass forward sound.  

@JLoud and @MacedonianHero -- I knew that Headamp was making very expensive amps for electrostatic headphones, but I didn't know they made equipment that could drive planars.  Price wise, the HeadAmp GS-X mini is in reach and I plan to call Justin tomorrow. 

The other two considerations on my list now are also the SPL Phonitor XE and the Benchmark HPA4.  Does anyone have experience with either?  Finally, I have been told that the Pass Labs HPA-1 does not have enough power to properly drive the 1266 headphones -- can anyone confirm or deny this?

Many, many thanks!!!!


----------



## Litlgi74 (Dec 12, 2019)

nyceg said:


> I agree with your pennies on the dollar remark, but these would be pennies I will not be able to recover if a month down the road I paid for a lemon.


I understand it may seem scary... But you should at least look for deals on demo gear from dealers. I bought my Lumin from a dealer at a significant savings... And it came with the full factory warranty. Also... Quite a few brands including Abyss allow for warranty transfer to a second owner. Simaudio products, like my 600i, come with a ten year warranty! Even if something does go wrong... Many manufacturers stand by their products. For me... the only way I could really "afford" summit-fi  gear was to purchase it as a demo or second hand. The real savings was worth the very small risk of purchasing an unrepairable lemon.

PS... Don't forget to register your Abyss headphones to get the free extended warranty.

Congrats on your new headphones!


----------



## ken6217

nyceg said:


> Thanks everyone for your replies.  The culture on head-fi never ceases to impress me.
> 
> @ken6217 -- While I agree with you about buying used for all of the reasons you've mentioned, I simply am not able to stomach the risk with this purchase.  As @Litlgi74 mentioned, "...be careful of Hifishark...Lots of scams."  You're also notvthe first person to advise against the Qutest.  There's a review on Youtube by John Darko () that spoke about this DAC with an amazing amount of enthusiasm, which is why it landed on my shortlist.  I've listened to the Qutest with lesser headphones and kind of liked it -- and I actually met Rob Watts, who's a very nice guy -- but was also told that it sounds "thin" through the 1266 TC.
> 
> ...




I still think that not buying used is being overly paranoid. Maybe I’m just lucky, or maybe I knock on wood, but I’ve never had anything other than a great experience with anything I’ve ever bought used,and I bought a lot of things used.

Buy off of Audiogon or USA Audiomart, or this site, and take a look at the reviews for the person you are purchasing from, and this would make you feel more comfortable with your purchase. Also purchase with PayPal or American Express and then you have recourse if there’s a problem.


----------



## JLoud

I have bought a mixture of new and used gear. Always a little trepidation with a used purchase. But as has been mentioned elsewhere many manufacturers honor their warranty. If I can get a good deal on B-stock from a dealer or manufacturer that is my preferred option. But some items never go on B-stock.(Abyss) I bought my Abyss used and my LCD-4 as B-stock. Both transactions where flawless. Just to your research and you should be good.


----------



## llamaluv

One other path is to develop a good relationship with a dealer who you can rely on to give you a predictable markdown off of list price and who has access to a broad array of the latest-and-greatest. 

So for instance, hypothetically speaking, if the list price off of random amp X is $3000 and you know you can get it used for $2000 (if and when you can find it, that is), but you know you can rely on your guy to sell it to you new for say $2500 whenever you're interested in doing that, then buying new can feel like a more palatable proposition than otherwise.


----------



## ken6217

This is evolving into a sub thread.

You can also do like I just did for the Simaudio amp that I purchased. I know a dealer who carries them, and I asked him if he was willing to sell a demo unit. So your getting an amp that you know is in good condition, fully warrantied, and broken in.


----------



## CreditingKarma

llamaluv said:


> One other path is to develop a good relationship with a dealer who you can rely on to give you a predictable markdown off of list price and who has access to a broad array of the latest-and-greatest.
> 
> So for instance, hypothetically speaking, if the list price off of random amp X is $3000 and you know you can get it used for $2000 (if and when you can find it, that is), but you know you can rely on your guy to sell it to you new for say $2500 whenever you're interested in doing that, then buying new can feel like a more palatable proposition than otherwise.



I couldn't agree more. I have done exactly this a big plus is that you will be able to audition items too. If you develop a good relationship you can usually bring items home to try them in your system in your own room. This is really helpful with two channel systems.


----------



## ken6217

I do this as well. Unfortunately ones favorite dealer may. it carry what you are looking for. That's why I have a rotation of dealer relationships.


----------



## mat.1

Where can i find the adapter for speaker to 4 pin xlr female ? i plan to try with mcintosh MC 152 speaker output.


----------



## Jon L

Something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dyson-Audi...phone-Cable-Speaker-Tap-Adapter-/113437046309

I made my own with 4 pin XLR female plug using short OCC magnet copper wire.


----------



## mat.1

Jon L said:


> Something like this:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dyson-Audi...phone-Cable-Speaker-Tap-Adapter-/113437046309
> 
> I made my own with 4 pin XLR female plug using short OCC magnet copper wire.


Thanks , i don't have experience in ebay transaction .


----------



## Litlgi74

mat.1 said:


> Where can i find the adapter for speaker to 4 pin xlr female ? i plan to try with mcintosh MC 152 speaker output.


Email Ted at https://headphonelounge.com/... Tell him what you need and he will provide excellent service at a great price.

He has made custom XLR to speaker tap adapters for many of us who use speaker amps to power our 1266s.


----------



## ekfc63 (Dec 13, 2019)

Litlgi74 said:


> Email Ted at https://headphonelounge.com/... Tell him what you need and he will provide excellent service at a great price.
> 
> He has made custom XLR to speaker tap adapters for many of us who use speaker amps to power our 1266s.



He's making one for me at the moment.  Ted’s service is excellent.


----------



## mulder01

Surprised Abyss don't sell these in their store in the stock and superconductor options.  
Official Abyss headphone cable with banana plugs.  Or speaker to XLR adapters.  Seems like there is a demand for it.  
They definitely have the resources!...


----------



## Litlgi74

mulder01 said:


> Surprised Abyss don't sell these in their store in the stock and superconductor options.
> Official Abyss headphone cable with banana plugs.  Or speaker to XLR adapters.  Seems like there is a demand for it.
> They definitely have the resources!...


Abyss does sell the adapter, $500... But only in the Superconductor flavor... Currently, you need to ask them for one as if is not available in their store... At least for now.


----------



## ken6217

The Superconductor adapter is a lot more than $500. The $500 adapter is the Ultraconducter with the blue jacket.


----------



## mulder01

Ah ok yeah superconductor stuff is not cheap...  
Even adding banana plug options to the termination options of the cables, as the termination options don't effect the price of the cable.

Maybe they are not in the store because it gives the impression that using a speaker amp must be safe, which it may not be in every case...


----------



## llamaluv

mulder01 said:


> Maybe they are not in the store because it gives the impression that using a speaker amp must be safe, which it may not be in every case...


That's how I'd read it as well.


----------



## ken6217

Good intuition. Joe”s told me more than once “you’re on your own”.


----------



## mulder01

haha oh ok, well that explains that then...


----------



## attmci

ken6217 said:


> Good intuition. Joe”s told me more than once “you’re on your own”.


Any reason behind that?

Let me know if you can get the original cable for $200. Good luck!


----------



## ken6217

attmci said:


> Any reason behind that?
> 
> Let me know if you can get the original cable for $200. Good luck!



Damaging the drivers due to too much power, not turning the amp on properly, or connecting or disconnecting cables while the amplifier is on. 
The headphones were made for a headphone amp.


----------



## Litlgi74

attmci said:


> Let me know if you can get the original cable for $200. Good luck!


Are you asking because of my WTB listing?


----------



## GrumbleFish

Just posted my 1266 Phi CC in the FS if anyone wants to get close to the TC sound for less cash


----------



## mulder01

I guess Joe has seen more than a couple of pairs come back to him damaged because of improper use with a speaker amp. ?  

IIRC someone blew a fuse in their speaker amp by disconnecting the Abyss while it was OFF (standby - not off at the wall).  So it's maybe not the safest thing to do with very expensive gear that wasn't designed to go together


----------



## attmci

Litlgi74 said:


> Are you asking because of my WTB listing?


Yup. Eventually, it needs to be replaced. The JPS price is formidable for me.


----------



## ken6217

mulder01 said:


> I guess Joe has seen more than a couple of pairs come back to him damaged because of improper use with a speaker amp. ?
> 
> IIRC someone blew a fuse in their speaker amp by disconnecting the Abyss while it was OFF (standby - not off at the wall).  So it's maybe not the safest thing to do with very expensive gear that wasn't designed to go together



Normal procedure and you’re ok. Don’t connect or disconnect the headphones with the amp on. Amp on last, and off first.


----------



## mulder01

I would have considered standby mode to be off enough...


----------



## ken6217

mulder01 said:


> I would have considered standby mode to be off enough...



That's what I'm referring to.


----------



## Roasty

Anyone here EQ their 1266? What frequencies did you end up tweaking?


----------



## zuber

I think that is a correct thread:


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Roasty said:


> Anyone here EQ their 1266? What frequencies did you end up tweaking?



i sometimes use ifi’s xbass function on 10hz for getting this deep rumble feeling


----------



## llamaluv

Roasty said:


> Anyone here EQ their 1266? What frequencies did you end up tweaking?



Oh I like this question. I'm no EQ-Master, but I'm always adjusting something. 

This is what I've settled on for the TC on my solid state speaker amp with decent (mostly acoustic) recordings:




The dip at the bottom end there is a nod to the fact that the TC can get boomy depending on the recording and regardless of fit. It could in reality be a much deeper dip for me, actually.

The hump in the lower-mids compensates for that area being too recessed for my tastes. I believe this is a combination of the TC itself, plus how my speaker amp responds to the TC as well.

The dip around 2k is something I do almost always because I'm extra-sensitive around there.

For electronic music and rock, I usually need something more clockwise-shaped.


----------



## Roasty

llamaluv said:


> Oh I like this question. I'm no EQ-Master, but I'm always adjusting something.
> 
> This is what I've settled on for the TC on my solid state speaker amp with decent (mostly acoustic) recordings:
> 
> ...



Thanks for that! I tried your settings and that 2k dip really made all the difference! It took away a lot of the brightness up top. The low mid hump helped too, but that 2k dip really takes the cake! Oh man I should have tried this sooner..


----------



## Ciggavelli (Dec 16, 2019)

I upgraded my cheap ethernet cables to some Supra Cat8 Ethernet cables.  I don't know how, and I don't know why, but they actually did make the TCs sound more holographic with a bit of added resolution.  Now, I think this is going to force me to pick up the SOtM Cat 7 cables now too.  What would they sound like? 

I guess everybody was right when they said every little thing in your chain will change the sound signature/quality.  I like and don't like this reality.


----------



## tholt

Ciggavelli said:


> I upgraded my cheap ethernet cables to some Supra Cat8 Ethernet cables.



I did this a while back and was surprised to hear an audible improvement as well. This was out of my 2 channel stereo, so I can imagine you'd hear more significant changes through the TC. I'd say the difference was on the more subtle side, but audible. Supra is relatively affordable compared to other 'audiophile-priced' ethernet cables. I bought direct from their ebay store. Don't regret the purchase.


----------



## ken6217

I had upgraded my ethernet cable and it made a very noticeable improvement. SOtM with filter.


----------



## Sage Encore

Ciggavelli said:


> I upgraded my cheap ethernet cables to some Supra Cat8 Ethernet cables.  I don't know how, and I don't know why, but they actually did make the TCs sound more holographic with a bit of added resolution.  Now, I think this is going to force me to pick up the SOtM Cat 7 cables now too.  What would they sound like?
> 
> I guess everybody was right when they said every little thing in your chain will change the sound signature/quality.  I like and don't like this reality.


I'm using 2x Cat 7 with the iso cat 6 block (2x) per ethernet connection. Its very good. The resolution, bass and mids are very good. My USB cables (2x) are Tellurium Silver Diamond. The better the cables, the better it got for me.

I did use the Supra as well for a while just to hear them. There are good, but not in the same league as the soTm ones, but of course that's expected due to the difference in price and as an end user I would expect it too, would'nt we all. 

There are quite a bunch of good cables out in the market, check them out and if possible try it on ur system before pulling the trigger. It's one of the reasons I am into this hobby. Cheers.


----------



## ken6217

Sage Encore said:


> I'm using 2x Cat 7 with the iso cat 6 block (2x) per ethernet connection. Its very good. The resolution, bass and mids are very good. My USB cables (2x) are Tellurium Silver Diamond. The better the cables, the better it got for me.
> 
> I did use the Supra as well for a while just to hear them. There are good, but not in the same league as the soTm ones, but of course that's expected due to the difference in price and as an end user I would expect it too, would'nt we all.
> 
> There are quite a bunch of good cables out in the market, check them out and if possible try it on ur system before pulling the trigger. It's one of the reasons I am into this hobby. Cheers.



I was thinking of adding the iso cat 6 block as well. Did you experiment with two different cable in and out? There was a good review somewhere that did an extensive review with different cables.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I think you are referring to this comparison:

https://audiobacon.net/2017/07/09/sotm-iso-cat6-special-edition-the-flavors-of-audiophile-ethernet/


----------



## ray-dude

At the risk of spinning even more off topic (the only saving grace is that I did some of these ethernet cables tests with TC's, and they are EXTREMELY resolving of the added detail and presence in the low end), I recently got an Uptone Audio EtherREGEN, and I've been experimenting with various "accessible" ethernet cables.  The general trend has been the higher the Cat rating (ie, better the shielding and supported data rates), the better the result.  The differences were not subtle, which was a huge surprise to me.  Winner (so far) is the Cable Matters Cat8 ethernet cable ($11 for 3' from Amazon, returnable).  I did not have the SoTM or Supra available to test, but I suspect a quality cat 8 cable will out perform a premium cat 6 (and maybe cat 7) cable.  If anyone in SoCal wants to bring over their SoTM or Supra cables, I'm happy to provide the wine to ease the listening tests 

Here are the details of the cable testing I did:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...d-experiments/?do=findComment&comment=1011228
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...eriments/page/5/?tab=comments#comment-1013858


----------



## lithiumnk

ray-dude said:


> At the risk of spinning even more off topic (the only saving grace is that I did some of these ethernet cables tests with TC's, and they are EXTREMELY resolving of the added detail and presence in the low end), I recently got an Uptone Audio EtherREGEN, and I've been experimenting with various "accessible" ethernet cables.  The general trend has been the higher the Cat rating (ie, better the shielding and supported data rates), the better the result.  The differences were not subtle, which was a huge surprise to me.  Winner (so far) is the Cable Matters Cat8 ethernet cable ($11 for 3' from Amazon, returnable).  I did not have the SoTM or Supra available to test, but I suspect a quality cat 8 cable will out perform a premium cat 6 (and maybe cat 7) cable.  If anyone in SoCal wants to bring over their SoTM or Supra cables, I'm happy to provide the wine to ease the listening tests
> 
> Here are the details of the cable testing I did:
> 
> ...


I also got the EtherRegen(ER) from December batch. I am using DIY supra cat8 throughout my chain. Supra cat8 definitely made an improvement. But, with ether regen (after 100hrs) its day n night.
I have not tried SOtM cables but I think ER will have a more positive effect than cables.


----------



## ken6217

I have been using AQVOX SE which is the same idea as the Regen. It does make a big difference, but it’s best to experiment with different ethernet cables with it.


----------



## lithiumnk

ken6217 said:


> I have been using AQVOX SE which is the same idea as the Regen. It does make a big difference, but it’s best to experiment with different ethernet cables with it.


There are few comparison b/w aqvox se & ER on audiophilestyle website. Just search for aqvox 
check this: UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions #358


----------



## ken6217

I have followed that thread from the beginning. I’m happy with what I have and not willing to go down that rabbit hole.

I did have the Regen unit at one time and didn’t like the sound. Ended up with the Wyred 4 Sound instead. I’m not sure if there’s an Uptone house sound, but no need to change for me.


----------



## Jon L

Ciggavelli said:


> I think you are referring to this comparison:
> 
> https://audiobacon.net/2017/07/09/sotm-iso-cat6-special-edition-the-flavors-of-audiophile-ethernet/



To the author and suffering audiophiles, I always make the same suggestion:  Get rid of as many cables as possible in your system.  
As the author so painfully documents, NO CABLE sounds perfect, i.e. perfectly colorless, neutral, and transparent.  This includes headphone cables, interconnects, speaker cables, USB, digital, power cords, ethernet, etc, etc. 
I was able to get rid of USB cables and spdif cables in signal chain, which made a large difference.  I got rid of ethernet cables in signal chain by buying/downloading all my albums and playing from local hard drive.  I wish I could somehow get rid of the headphone cable on my Abyss Phi TC


----------



## ken6217

It is true that it is better to simplify the amount of. cables, however cables are still needed, and some are better than others. 

i guess you have a one box solution. 

Btw, maybe ask Joe if he’ll make a Bluetooth version of your headphkne.


----------



## Roasty

Everytime I see a new way to spend money, I always turn to ASR to see if anyone has a contrasting opinion. Kinda like a voice of reasoning for me. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt...

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../uptone-audio-etherregen-switch-review.10232/


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> Everytime I see a new way to spend money, I always turn to ASR to see if anyone has a contrasting opinion. Kinda like a voice of reasoning for me. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt...
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../uptone-audio-etherregen-switch-review.10232/


Oh, NO.


----------



## Roasty

attmci said:


> Oh, NO.



Lol.. 

Not knocking on anyone. I just like to read both sides of the story. Im actually thinking of ordering the etherregen.. Just for curiosity sake.


----------



## ken6217

attmci said:


> Oh, NO.



I call bull. It’s totally impossible not to hear a difference. Either it sounds better or worse, but it’s impossible to sound the same.


----------



## mulder01

ken6217 said:


> I call bull. It’s totally impossible not to hear a difference. Either it sounds better or worse, but it’s impossible to sound the same.


dafuq?
It's 100% possible to sound the same because it doesn't do anything.  Same as if I sit a hamster on my DAC - it sounds the same because it has no impact whatsoever - just like an audiophile network switch.
Keep in mind that a standard cat6 network runs at 1 gigabit.  That's pumping 1's and 0's all over the place a billion times a second without making any mistakes.  And that's a standard $30 network switch doing that with no problems at all.  Sure, the $640 audiophile one can do it as well, but who cares.


----------



## Sage Encore

ken6217 said:


> I was thinking of adding the iso cat 6 block as well. Did you experiment with two different cable in and out? There was a good review somewhere that did an extensive review with different cables.


Hi Ken,
I did but it was quiet a while ago. My current set up is all soTm ethernet cables, so I guess the rest didn't quiet match up. LOL. I would like to try a Tellurium ethernet cable though. Hope my guy here can t-loan one to me. Anyways, I am in the midst of getting a second soTm switch. Hope I can get it up and running after the new year.


----------



## ken6217 (Dec 18, 2019)

mulder01 said:


> dafuq?
> It's 100% possible to sound the same because it doesn't do anything.  Same as if I sit a hamster on my DAC - it sounds the same because it has no impact whatsoever - just like an audiophile network switch.
> Keep in mind that a standard cat6 network runs at 1 gigabit.  That's pumping 1's and 0's all over the place a billion times a second without making any mistakes.  And that's a standard $30 network switch doing that with no problems at all.  Sure, the $640 audiophile one can do it as well, but who cares.



It’s too bad your hamster doesn’t speak. He would’ve said, “Hey Mulder, I know you want to appear intelligent, but why don’t you actually be intelligent and listen to something before you comment and say something has no effect, negative effect, or positive affect”?

But you’re smarter than a hamster, so you could’ve just told him that why would it make a difference? That’s like saying power cables, interconnects, and headphone cables make no difference either, after all it’s just electrons going across a wire. Streamers and DAC’s too. They’re only processing 1’s and 0’s. A 1 is a 1, and a 0 is a 0.


----------



## ken6217 (Dec 18, 2019)

Btw, ever hear of jitter reduction, re-clocking, timing errors?


----------



## Articnoise

The EtherREGEN made a very positive and notable difference in my audio system.

I believe in testing myself before making general statements and UpTone have a 30-day money-back satisfaction guaranteed, so you can test it at home and if you don’t like it you can send it back for full refund.


----------



## mulder01

ken6217 said:


> It’s too bad your hamster doesn’t speak. He would’ve said, “Hey Mulder, I know you want to appear intelligent, but why don’t you actually be intelligent and listen to something before you comment and say something has no effect, negative effect, or positive affect”?
> 
> But you’re smarter than a hamster, so you could’ve just told him that why would it make a difference? That’s like saying power cables, interconnects, and headphone cables make no difference either, after all it’s just electrons going across a wire. Streamers and DAC’s too. They’re only processing 1’s and 0’s. A 1 is a 1, and a 0 is a 0.


I stand by my hamster.  
Get one and blind test it if you wanna waste $640


----------



## ken6217

You’ve lost your posting privileges. Only the hamster can post.


----------



## Ciggavelli

My Christmas present to myself was just delivered, the JPS Superconductor for my TCs.  After 5 minutes of use, compared to the regular cables, the sound is much more holographic (it's kind of crazy actually), the bass hits harder, the treble sparkles more, the soundstage is bigger.  In my permutation, I got the 8ft one, costing close to $3K, so I was expecting big things.  For just this 5 minute sample, I am hopeful the purchase was worth it.  Of course much more listening is needed to properly evaluate the cables.  I will be on a listening frenzy tonight.  I will post comparisons to the stock cable after I properly evaluate the SCs with many different songs and genres.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Merry Christmas!
FYI the cable requires break-in and will sound more open and extended after about 72 hours of play-time, but as you heard it plays nice out the box.


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> My Christmas present to myself was just delivered, the JPS Superconductor for my TCs.  After 5 minutes of use, compared to the regular cables, the sound is much more holographic (it's kind of crazy actually), the bass hits harder, the treble sparkles more, the soundstage is bigger.  In my permutation, I got the 8ft one, costing close to $3K, so I was expecting big things.  For just this 5 minute sample, I am hopeful the purchase was worth it.  Of course much more listening is needed to properly evaluate the cables.  I will be on a listening frenzy tonight.  I will post comparisons to the stock cable after I properly evaluate the SCs with many different songs and genres.



Congrats!! 

I have the same cable with my TC and love it.


----------



## ken6217 (Dec 18, 2019)

As mentioned above, I have the Superconductor cable. I also have the Lazuli Reference cable on my Empyrean, and always liked that cable. So I decided to borrow a Lazuli Reference to try with the TC. I could not believe how much better the Superconductor cable is. The dimension, instrument spacing, and depth of soundstage is amazing. The difference is not subtle at all.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> As mentioned above, I have the Superconductor cable. I also have thew Lazuli Reference cable on my Empyrean, and always liked that cable. So I decided to borrow a Lazuli Reference to try with the TC. I could not believe how much better the Superconductor cable is. The dimension, instrument spacing, and depth of soundstage is amazing. The difference is not subtle at all.


I'm blown away by the instrument spacing.  Everything is so clear and defined with the Superconductor.  The soundstage is great too.  Jay over at audiobacon said the Superconductor was too warm.  I don't hear that at all.  I know some other posters on here said the same thing about the cables not being too warm either.  I dunno why that reviewer on audiobacon found the cables to be too warm.  I guess everybody hears things differently


----------



## cj3209

ken6217 said:


> As mentioned above, I have the Superconductor cable. I also have thew Lazuli Reference cable on my Empyrean, and always liked that cable. So I decided to borrow a Lazuli Reference to try with the TC. I could not believe how much better the Superconductor cable is. The dimension, instrument spacing, and depth of soundstage is amazing. The difference is not subtle at all.


You guys are killing me softly...


----------



## ken6217

I don’t find it warm at all. It’s not bright or analytical either. I would characterize the Lazuli as warm though.


----------



## ken6217

cj3209 said:


> You guys are killing me softly...



Gee, i’ve been called a lot of things, but not Roberta Flack.


----------



## Jon L

You guys might have Hi-Fi spending addiction


----------



## Ciggavelli

Jon L said:


> You guys might have Hi-Fi spending addiction


Guilty


----------



## ken6217

Jon L said:


> You guys might have Hi-Fi spending addiction



I don’t. It’s the monkey on my back


----------



## Marco_tam

Ciggavelli said:


> I'm blown away by the instrument spacing.  Everything is so clear and defined with the Superconductor.  The soundstage is great too.  Jay over at audiobacon said the Superconductor was too warm.  I don't hear that at all.  I know some other posters on here said the same thing about the cables not being too warm either.  I dunno why that reviewer on audiobacon found the cables to be too warm.  I guess everybody hears things differently



Congracts! You basically just set a new target for us new joiners just when we thought having the Abyss was already good enough...

Is the Superconductor as stiff as the stock cable? I've. had a hard time dealing with stock one


----------



## simorag

Marco_tam said:


> Is the Superconductor as stiff as the stock cable? I've. had a hard time dealing with stock one



The Superconductor is very flexible, smooth to the touch and light. Actually, I began looking for alternatives to the stock cable mainly for ergonomics / aesthetics. I ended up with the Superconductor as well, my journey is here.


----------



## Marco_tam

simorag said:


> The Superconductor is very flexible, smooth to the touch and light. Actually, I began looking for alternatives to the stock cable mainly for ergonomics / aesthetics. I ended up with the Superconductor as well, my journey is here.



It was an enjoyable read. Thanks! There must be something special about the SC that you chose to keep in the end, especially you held the DHC in very high regard from your review. 
May I ask what was the critical point you chose SC over DHC?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Marco_tam said:


> Congracts! You basically just set a new target for us new joiners just when we thought having the Abyss was already good enough...
> 
> Is the Superconductor as stiff as the stock cable? I've. had a hard time dealing with stock one


Yeah, agreed. The stock are very stiff.  On the SC, the cables are flexible on not stiff at all.  Ergonomically, they are substantially better.  They do still have the two cords all the way through that are not connected, like the original.  I used some Velcro ties on the stock and I probably will on the SC too.  But, yeah, the cables are much better in like every regard, including ergonomics


----------



## simorag (Dec 19, 2019)

Marco_tam said:


> It was an enjoyable read. Thanks! There must be something special about the SC that you chose to keep in the end, especially you held the DHC in very high regard from your review.
> May I ask what was the critical point you chose SC over DHC?



It was not an easy decision as I liked both ...

I chose to keep the SC for three reasons:

1. Better balance between transparency and body (esp. Vocals and mid-bass) for my tastes,
2. More discrete looks (my Prion4 was white with golden finishes),
3. I got the Prion4 used and the SC new, so the resale loss was much less.

Anyway, the Prion4 is an outstanding piece of audio gear as well, and I can easily see how some users could prefer it over the Superconductor.

With warmer / thicker cans like Audeze or ZMF I guess it is an heavenly match!


----------



## Marco_tam

Ciggavelli said:


> Yeah, agreed. The stock are very stiff.  On the SC, the cables are flexible on not stiff at all.  Ergonomically, they are substantially better.  They do still have the two cords all the way through that are not connected, like the original.  I used some Velcro ties on the stock and I probably will on the SC too.  But, yeah, the cables are much better in like every regard, including ergonomics



Without the Y-splitter, it kind of has this weird feeling that you are like carrying an amplifier on your head with 2 RCA cables wrapping around you. Not so sure if they do it on purpose without the Y-splitter, but I guess it's to reduce distortion bewteen the two?


----------



## ken6217

I don’t feel that way at all. It’s nice having two cables come down and not going into one cable causing a drag on your head. Very balanced.


----------



## Marco_tam

simorag said:


> It was not an easy decision as I liked both ...
> 
> I chose to keep the SC for three reasons:
> 
> ...



This is quite a RARE thing that the headphone company actually produces better/the same quality headphone cables than the others out there. But came to think of it, it's JPS after all


----------



## spotforscott

Ciggavelli said:


> I'm blown away by the instrument spacing.  Everything is so clear and defined with the Superconductor.  The soundstage is great too.  Jay over at audiobacon said the Superconductor was too warm.  I don't hear that at all.  I know some other posters on here said the same thing about the cables not being too warm either.  I dunno why that reviewer on audiobacon found the cables to be too warm.  I guess everybody hears things differently


I agree, not sure why Jay had that perception? My expereince is the same as yours...


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

This might be a silly question. But, does the TC have that cool soundstage like the Susvara where the music floats on the sides of you?


----------



## Litlgi74 (Dec 20, 2019)

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> This might be a silly question. But, does the TC have that cool soundstage like the Susvara where the music floats on the sides of you?


The soundstage produced by Abyss headphones is quite spectacular... I think it depends mostly on the recording... But when it's available, the soundstage is reproduced in a very real 3D image. I love when I hear a new song, and I hear sounds that seem to come from many feet away from me... It sometimes can be very magical... As well as startling.

I listen to quite a bit of electronic ambient music. Because the 1266s are an open back design... you can be sometimes fooled into thinking that sounds and noises in the recording are coming from the outside world and not the music. I love it when that happens!


----------



## mat.1

I have a mcintosh stereo amp , The output OF The speaker is have 2/4/8 ohm , is it Ok to Connect to The Abyss ? Which ohm should i use ?


----------



## ken6217

Do you have the correct adapter from headphones to the amplifier?


----------



## mat.1

ken6217 said:


> Do you have the correct adapter from headphones to the amplifier?


I am planning to make one, with the local cable shop. Right (+/- ) and Left (+/-) to 4 pin female Xlr.
The problem is the speaker output from amp have 3 plus ( 2/4/8 ohm) and 1 negative, and i dont know which one its working best , or it is safe , as the abyss have  47 ohm ?
https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/-/medi.../Products/ProductImages/MC152/MC152-Back.ashx


----------



## ken6217

mat.1 said:


> I am planning to make one, with the local cable shop. Right (+/- ) and Left (+/-) to 4 pin female Xlr.
> The problem is the speaker output from amp have 3 plus ( 2/4/8 ohm) and 1 negative, and i dont know which one its working best , or it is safe , as the abyss have  47 ohm ?
> https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/-/medi.../Products/ProductImages/MC152/MC152-Back.ashx



I would have no idea. You had better follow the rule of carpentry. Measure twice and cut one. So in other words, better check this out thoroughly before trying to connect so that you don’t eff up your headphones and amp.


----------



## Litlgi74

mat.1 said:


> I am planning to make one, with the local cable shop. Right (+/- ) and Left (+/-) to 4 pin female Xlr.
> The problem is the speaker output from amp have 3 plus ( 2/4/8 ohm) and 1 negative, and i dont know which one its working best , or it is safe , as the abyss have  47 ohm ?
> https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/-/medi.../Products/ProductImages/MC152/MC152-Back.ashx





Zhanming057 said:


> You use an adapter like the one below. The standard 4 pin XLR pinout corresponds to the two channels on the amp.



I think this is the information you're looking for.


----------



## ken6217

That’s not answering the question of which taps he should select.


----------



## Litlgi74

ken6217 said:


> That’s not answering the question of which taps he should select.


hmmm... I think you are right... I've been up for 30+ hours.

maybe my reply will help someone.


----------



## Thenewguy007

mat.1 said:


> I am planning to make one, with the local cable shop. Right (+/- ) and Left (+/-) to 4 pin female Xlr.
> The problem is the speaker output from amp have 3 plus ( 2/4/8 ohm) and 1 negative, and i dont know which one its working best , or it is safe , as the abyss have  47 ohm ?
> https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/-/medi.../Products/ProductImages/MC152/MC152-Back.ashx



Try it with the lowest first e.g. 2ohms right + & right - & 2ohms left + & left -.
Then move up to 4ohms right +  & right - & 4ohms left + & left -
etc...
See if that improves the sound or degrades it.


----------



## astrostar59

mulder01 said:


> dafuq?
> It's 100% possible to sound the same because it doesn't do anything.  Same as if I sit a hamster on my DAC - it sounds the same because it has no impact whatsoever - just like an audiophile network switch.
> Keep in mind that a standard cat6 network runs at 1 gigabit.  That's pumping 1's and 0's all over the place a billion times a second without making any mistakes.  And that's a standard $30 network switch doing that with no problems at all.  Sure, the $640 audiophile one can do it as well, but who cares.


It isn't the ones and zeros, as in all digital audio it is about noise and pollution....


----------



## mat.1

Thank you all for the suggestion, I just afraid to damage the amp or the abyss .
Maybe I need to save money to buy the amp , woo wa 5 /woo wa 22 /Manley absolute headphone amp.


----------



## JLoud

I have the WA5le and it pairs nicely. If you are interested in solid state then the HeadAmp GXSmk2 is a very fast amp that compliments the Abyss very well. Or the GSX mini is similar but a little warmer sounding. Also about $1200 cheaper. I believe it starts at $1800.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I've been listening to the SC cables like all day yesterday and today.  They are amazing and worth the money to me.  My initial impressions still stand.  Much better separation, more treble sparkle, fuller bass, a bit more resolution, slightly larger soundstage.  I feel like the bass drum decay is more realistic (faster), but I need to do some more testing with some death or grind


----------



## ken6217

Your findings are the same as mine. I listen to classic rock and some jazz.


----------



## ken6217

mat.1 said:


> Thank you all for the suggestion, I just afraid to damage the amp or the abyss .
> Maybe I need to save money to buy the amp , woo wa 5 /woo wa 22 /Manley absolute headphone amp.



Another tube amp to consider is the Cayin HA-300. I found it to sound better the WA5. Another member has both the TC and that amp and says it pairs nicely. Maybe he will chime in.


----------



## jlbrach

you cant beat the formula s/powerman


----------



## llamaluv

ken6217 said:


> Another tube amp to consider is the Cayin HA-300. I found it to sound better the WA5. Another member has both the TC and that amp and says it pairs nicely. Maybe he will chime in.


Yup yup, I'm really enjoying it. A few comments here and before that here.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Dec 21, 2019)

A song for Christmas or for anyone who enjoys a female vocal with an incredible range...

https://tidal.com/track/65025045


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

How are the female/male vocals on the TC? And how do they compare with the Susvara?  I’m asking all of these questions because at this point in time I’m getting closer to one of these bad boys.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Dec 21, 2019)

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> How are the female/male vocals on the TC? And how do they compare with the Susvara?  I’m asking all of these questions because at this point in time I’m getting closer to one of these bad boys.


They both sound good.  I think it'll be just based on preference for you, TBH.  In my mind, the biggest factor for purchasing one pair of headphones over the other, are the genres you listen to.   The Susvaras have a better mid-range, while the TCs have better bass and treble.  

For me, I listen to the Susvaras with indie rock, classic rock, and stoner metal.  They just sound better.  Those genres just really work well with the Susvaras.

For the TCs, I listen to them for hip-hop and death metal, black metal, doom, and grindcore.  The added bass is needed for those genres (especially hip-hop), and the TCs are the clear choice.  Also high-hats just sparkle a bit more with the TCs.

I mainly listen to metal, rock, and hip-hop, so I can't really speak to other genres.  But, I think it boils down to how important mid-range and bass are to you.  If you listen to bass heavy music, get the TCs.  If you prefer a sweeter mid-range, get the Susvaras.  

For me, if I had to pick just one pair, I'd go with the TCs.  They simply better match the genres I like.

EDIT 1: Also, I'm just using stock cables on the Susvaras, so take with that what you want.  I'll be upgrading the Susvara cables soon though


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

Ciggavelli said:


> They both sound good.  I think it'll be just based on preference for you, TBH.  In my mind, the biggest factor for purchasing one pair of headphones over the other, are the genres you listen to.   The Susvaras have a better mid-range, while the TCs have better bass and treble.
> 
> For me, I listen to the Susvaras with indie rock, classic rock, and stoner metal.  They just sound better.  Those genres just really work well with the Susvaras.
> 
> ...


Yes, genre-wise. I’m dnb,electronic,rock,hip hop

I was first headed towards the Susvara from hearing it many times and loving it. The TC would be a shot in the dark. I will probably go with the TC. If I don’t like them they will be easier to sell.


----------



## Litlgi74

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> If I don’t like them they will be easier to sell.



As long as the XTCs doesn't come out right after you purchase the TCs... I recommend you trying to find a used pair... The three-year warranty is transferable.


----------



## matthewhypolite

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> How are the female/male vocals on the TC? And how do they compare with the Susvara?  I’m asking all of these questions because at this point in time I’m getting closer to one of these bad boys.



Hey, check out the TOTL review in my sig, I own both cans you're considering and directly compare them, and I have notes on which excels at what and in which genre. 

Maybe it may be of some help in deciding.bith are excellent cans. From you hearing the susvara, if what I've described in my review lines up with you own personal opinion of the cans, then you can get an easy reference of how it compares to the TC.

Let me know if u have any other questions after checking out my review, or if there are any specific songs or tests you'd like me to run and comment on.

Im currently on vacation though and only back home on the 2nd. So any testing you may want me to do would have to wait until after that


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

matthewhypolite said:


> Hey, check out the TOTL review in my sig, I own both cans you're considering and directly compare them, and I have notes on which excels at what and in which genre.
> 
> Maybe it may be of some help in deciding.bith are excellent cans. From you hearing the susvara, if what I've described in my review lines up with you own personal opinion of the cans, then you can get an easy reference of how it compares to the TC.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I did read your impressions a few weeks ago. It’s still a hard choice for me. Because some genres that are worse on each amp I listen to them too. This is why this is so difficult. I wish I could afford both, lol.


----------



## ken6217

You need to listen to both. You can't spend $5k or $6k without listening first.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

ken6217 said:


> You need to listen to both. You can't spend $5k or $6k without listening first.


I know, you’re right. But I kind of want to roll the dice on the Abyss. And be surprised a little. I have a lot of fun not knowing what I’m going to get.


----------



## Litlgi74

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> I know, you’re right. But I kind of want to roll the dice on the Abyss. And be surprised a little. I have a lot of fun not knowing what I’m going to get.


Exactly what I did... Just at 1/3 the retail price.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

Litlgi74 said:


> Exactly what I did... Just at 1/3 the retail price.


I don’t pay retail for anything audio related.


----------



## ken6217

If you plan on buying the TC brand new don’t expect to get much off.


----------



## supervisor

got mine new for $4,500


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

Price-wise I can get a pretty good price. I won’t disclose that on here. It’s definitely going to cost more than the Susvara. It’s really going to be a coin flip at this point. Comfort for the Susvara. Most listened to genres would go the route of the TC. But, the genres the Susvara excels well in I also do listen too. It’s a hard one for me.


----------



## ken6217

supervisor said:


> got mine new for $4,500



That’s the amount I was thinking of.  Got same for Black Friday.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I got mine for $4500 new as well.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Exac


PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> Thanks, I did read your impressions a few weeks ago. It’s still a hard choice for me. Because some genres that are worse on each amp I listen to them too. This is why this is so difficult. I wish I could afford both, lol.


exactly why i have both, lol


ken6217 said:


> You need to listen to both. You can't spend $5k or $6k without listening first.


Ive made all my purchases blind lol


----------



## CreditingKarma (Dec 22, 2019)

Comment retracted


----------



## llamaluv

I think it's a positive thing for users to share publicly what they've paid when buying things new. 

$4.5k for me as well.


----------



## Tekunda

CreditingKarma said:


> I was able to get mine for substantially less than $4,500 brand new.


Are you referring to the TC model ?


----------



## CreditingKarma (Dec 22, 2019)

llamaluv said:


> I think it's a positive thing for users to share publicly what they've paid when buying things new.
> 
> $4.5k for me as well.




I agree 100%. There are some companies that price their gear at high retail prices. Look at the susvara you can get them new for sub $4k. I was able to get a good deal on the TC. 

All I can say is that these are the best headphones I have ever heard and would still say that even at the full asking price of $5k.  I was lucky enough to have found a dealer that I trust and had done alot of business with that carried abyss. I will always support smaller dealers over the big guys. The same goes for JPS I thought Audeze had great customer support but JPS is above and beyond them.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Tekunda said:


> Are you referring to the TC model ?



Yes it is the TC model.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

That’s a crazy low price. Even lower than mines. Wow. Lol.


----------



## mat.1

What is the mini 3 pin xlr configuration ? is 1 - and 3 +  ? 
thx.


----------



## Narayan23

CreditingKarma said:


> I agree 100%. There are some companies that price their gear at high retail prices.* Look at the susvara you can get them new for sub $4k*. I was able to get a good deal on the TC.
> 
> All I can say is that these are the best headphones I have ever heard and would still say that even at the full asking price of $5k.  I was lucky enough to have found a dealer that I trust and had done alot of business with that carried abyss. I will always support smaller dealers over the big guys. The same goes for JPS I thought Audeze had great customer support but JPS is above and beyond them.



Where would one find such a good price for the Susvara? TIA.


----------



## CreditingKarma (Dec 23, 2019)

You can find them listed on audiogon and other sites usually as an open box. That is how folks get around listing them for less than msrp. Alternatively build a relationship with your dealer.


Here is a link to one for $4,200

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9h3g5-hifiman-susvara-and-other-models-over-ear


----------



## ken6217

I have a good relationship with a couple high-end dealers for my two channel at home theater systems that take care of me. However when it comes to headphones I don’t have such relationships. In this case I’d rather opt for purchasing from someone that offers good service. That’s just as important in the long run.

For me personally, I would not buy Hifiiman used. I don’t trust their quality new, let alone secondhand.


----------



## CreditingKarma

ken6217 said:


> I have a good relationship with a couple high-end dealers for my two channel at home theater systems that take care of me. However when it comes to headphones I don’t have such relationships. In this case I’d rather opt for purchasing from someone that offers good service. That’s just as important in the long run.
> 
> For me personally, I would not buy Hifiiman used. I don’t trust their quality new, let alone secondhand.




I am fortunate to have a dealer that I use for both 2 channel and headfi. I know that this is not very common. 

Also alot of listings on agon are from dealers. The susvara above is from an authorized dealer and is brand new in box. I personally would buy hifiman even if it was brand new with warranty. The build quality is severely lacking imo.


----------



## AMHaudio

Hi ! Just received my new TC box. Can't wait to open the Box. In car driving to Home from Airport. Had to wait long time for this day. At last it came to other end of the world...Thanks everyone for your valuable posts. I went through all....


----------



## ken6217

Congrats!!


----------



## JLoud

Enjoy! They certainly are a fantastic headphone. Very revealing. Makes trying out other equipment in your chain interesting as well.


----------



## Bonddam

Hi I’m new to the 1266 phi tc. Had it a couple weeks and finding perfect configuration of the headphone drove me nuts. Though I have an issue with bass frequencies not coming through on one side. So I emailed Abyss and they told me 200 hr burn in or send it in to be checked out. I don’t think burn in is going to magically creat bass when there isn’t any to begin with. So right side rumbles but left side does not. It always sounds like the musician planned to only have low end on one side. Has this happened to anyone else?


----------



## Marco_tam

Bonddam said:


> Hi I’m new to the 1266 phi tc. Had it a couple weeks and finding perfect configuration of the headphone drove me nuts. Though I have an issue with bass frequencies not coming through on one side. So I emailed Abyss and they told me 200 hr burn in or send it in to be checked out. I don’t think burn in is going to magically creat bass when there isn’t any to begin with. So right side rumbles but left side does not. It always sounds like the musician planned to only have low end on one side. Has this happened to anyone else?



So you're saying the bass only comes from the right but nothing on the left?

That sounds abnormal...To me, the bass has always been there on both channels and it's very balanced. Burning in just makes it tighter and deeper. 

You might want to send it back for a check imo..


----------



## Bonddam

I’ve tried bending the brackets in and out played with rotation of the pads and moving it all the way out. I’m just afraid when I send them back they’ll find nothing wrong. As far as the rest of the frequencies everything is good. It’s my favorite headphone even just bought the SC and Formula S with power supply I love them so much.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Bonddam said:


> I’ve tried bending the brackets in and out played with rotation of the pads and moving it all the way out. I’m just afraid when I send them back they’ll find nothing wrong. As far as the rest of the frequencies everything is good. It’s my favorite headphone even just bought the SC and Formula S with power supply I love them so much.


Try swapping the cables and see if the issue switch sides or remains the same.
So swap left and right of the cable on the headphone end.


----------



## Bonddam

I’ll try that.


----------



## Bonddam

Just to add there is pressure from the bass on good side but none on left. Sometimes there is even bass on both sides. So I switched sides and I’m everything sounds fine. I don’t know maybe it’s in my head. Before I send it off I’ll test with SC and Formula S. Maybe my stock cable is bad.


----------



## matthewhypolite (Dec 25, 2019)

Bonddam said:


> Just to add there is pressure from the bass on good side but none on left. Sometimes there is even bass on both sides. So I switched sides and I’m everything sounds fine. I don’t know maybe it’s in my head. Before I send it off I’ll test with SC and Formula S. Maybe my stock cable is bad.



Yea could be the cable, the amp, etc, can be one of many different things.

Also you should try to find a sound, or bass test tone or soemthing that can provide continuous bass to help you track down where the issue may lie.

Things to try apart from what I already recommended :

Different amp.
Bass consistent song.
Different sorce.
Different cable.
Earpads securely fastened on both sides and oriented the same.

I'd elliminate them all before sending back the headphone.

Edit : also, if you find like you're hearing the issue during a certain peice of music, you can jsut flip the headphones on your head and see, I. E. Rule out your left ear as the culprit


----------



## astrostar59

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> This might be a silly question. But, does the TC have that cool soundstage like the Susvara where the music floats on the sides of you?



I would suggest the soundstage and 3D imaging of the Abyss is only second to the HD800, but very close, and everything is better on the rest of the performance of course. V the Susvara it has decent soundstage but lags behind the TC IMO.


----------



## ken6217

Also your equipment plays a big part in it. The better your equipment, the better the headphones will sound.


----------



## tunes

I wonder where the HEKse fits in compared the Susvara and PHI TC in terms of sound stage and dynamics.


----------



## Bonddam

So I sent my 1266 to be checked out. I’m hoping it’s the headphone and not my ear drum. With my other headphones I don’t experience this issue of no bass in left ear. Though the 1266 is the basses headphone I got.


----------



## CreditingKarma

If anyone is looking for a pair of TC I have mine listed for sale in the classifieds along with a TT2. I love them but just listen to my speakers more and want to pick up a Dave.


----------



## Litlgi74

CreditingKarma said:


> If anyone is looking for a pair of TC I have mine listed for sale in the classifieds along with a TT2. I love them but just listen to my speakers more and want to pick up a Dave.


You will be sorry


----------



## CreditingKarma

Litlgi74 said:


> You will be sorry



You are most likely correct. I might pull them I just picked up a streamer and might not get a Dave.


----------



## cj3209

CreditingKarma said:


> You are most likely correct. I might pull them I just picked up a streamer and might not get a Dave.


Which streamer?  I love my Ambre...


----------



## CreditingKarma

cj3209 said:


> Which streamer?  I love my Ambre...



I picked up the Auralic Aries G1. I am auditioning it against a innuos zen mini with the eternal power supply. I like that the G1 works over wifi. I never thought that a streamer would make such a difference.


----------



## cj3209

CreditingKarma said:


> I picked up the Auralic Aries G1. I am auditioning it against a innuos zen mini with the eternal power supply. I like that the G1 works over wifi. I never thought that a streamer would make such a difference.


That Auralic Aries G1 is a nice piece of gear; it looks great.  I wish my Ambre looked a bit more sleek but I have it in hiding in a corner of my room and it just pumps out Roon to my DAC.


----------



## Litlgi74

If you are just auditioning... Check out the Lumin T2... Or the S1 and X1. You won't be disappointed.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Litlgi74 said:


> If you are just auditioning... Check out the Lumin T2... Or the S1 and X1. You won't be disappointed.



I would like to check them out too. I am not looking for a streamer with a dac though. I currently have a TT2 and the only dac that I am looking at as an upgrade currently is the Dave. I might try to find a lumin dealer near me though. Thanks for the heads-up.


----------



## Litlgi74

CreditingKarma said:


> I would like to check them out too. I am not looking for a streamer with a dac though. I currently have a TT2 and the only dac that I am looking at as an upgrade currently is the Dave. I might try to find a lumin dealer near me though. Thanks for the heads-up.



You can bypass the internal DAC in the streamers I mentioned... But the U1 is specifically built as stand alone streamer for those who already own a high-end DAC.


----------



## Litlgi74

CreditingKarma said:


> I would like to check them out too. I am not looking for a streamer with a dac though. I currently have a TT2 and the only dac that I am looking at as an upgrade currently is the Dave. I might try to find a lumin dealer near me though. Thanks for the heads-up.


Did you ever get to demo the dCS gear?


----------



## Roasty

CreditingKarma said:


> I never thought that a streamer would make such a difference.



What differences did u hear? Big step up?


----------



## ken6217

Do you self a favor and use an ethernet cable, and not Wi-Fi for streaming.


----------



## CreditingKarma

ken6217 said:


> Do you self a favor and use an ethernet cable, and not Wi-Fi for streaming.




The Auralic streamers are actually built to be better with wifi from what the designer has said.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Litlgi74 said:


> Did you ever get to demo the dCS gear?



No I haven't had a chance to find a dealer locally that carries the bartok. I would still like to hear them if I have a chance.


----------



## ken6217

Has nothing to do with the server itself. Ethernet is a better connection for speed and latency.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Roasty said:


> What differences did u hear? Big step up?


I'm curious about this as well


----------



## CreditingKarma

Ciggavelli said:


> I'm curious about this as well




I know that I am going to get some hate for this but. I was recently auditioning the Mscaler in my system (I used to own one with a hugo 2) and imo the mscaler made more of a difference with the hugo 2 than it does with the TT2. For the money that is spent on a TT2 and Mscaler I would much rather have the Dave at the current holiday price the difference is minimal.

To my ears the addition of the streamer made more of a difference than the mscaler at a lower price. With the aries g1 the sound stage depth and width is larger, I am getting a more solid bass and everything seems much more natural. The background is also very black with music seemingly coming from nowhere if that makes any sense. The imaging is more precise too. This is all on my two channel system I have not listened with my Abyss yet. I find differences more apparent on speakers then headphones most of the time. I also prefer listening on speakers 90% of the time. 




This is my current setup I am going to upgrade the power conditioning to a transparent power wave today. These are just my initial impressions I will update after I get some more time with the streamer in the system. 

I am really enjoying the functionality of it too. It can stream via airplay so now my wife can stream all of the korean music ahe likes from apple music that is not on Tidal. Maybe some day apple will get with the program and offer hires lossless streaming. If they did I think that they would crush all of the other services due to the sheer size of the library they have. 

Also if you get a chance I would suggest that you check out Magico speakers if you haven't heard them. The new A1 is incredible it is their lowest priced speaker they have made. To me it bests pretty much every speaker in its price range in technicalities.


----------



## cj3209

CreditingKarma said:


> ...Also if you get a chance I would suggest that you check out Magico speakers if you haven't heard them. The new A1 is incredible it is their lowest priced speaker they have made. To me it bests pretty much every speaker in its price range in technicalities.


No hate here, dude.  I lost faith in Chord after their mojo-poly fiasco...

I need to demo some Magico speakers...drool drool...


----------



## CreditingKarma

cj3209 said:


> No hate here, dude.  I lost faith in Chord after their mojo-poly fiasco...
> 
> I need to demo some Magico speakers...drool drool...



I actually had a Pavane on order but something happened and the dealer said that Metrum lost the order. After a month I got tired of waiting and was able to get a good price on the TT2. I would love to hear a pavane though I really liked my onyx.


----------



## ken6217

I have a Pavane Level 3. I love it. I sold my dCS for it.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Dec 29, 2019)

You know how when you smoke weed everyday, you gain a tolerance? (BTW, haven't smoked weed in years, but I used to).  Well, when that happens you need to take a "tolerance" break.  

I just found the same to be true with headphones and equipment.  I couldn't listen to my equipment at all for the last week.  I just turned everything on and listened to the TCs, and I'm like, "wow."  That "wow" factor goes away if you listen to your equipment every single day.  You can get it back with a nice couple of days "tolerance" break.  Now, can I force myself to not listen to music on purpose though?  That remains to be seen


----------



## matthewhypolite

Ciggavelli said:


> You know how when you smoke weed everyday, you gain a tolerance? (BTW, haven't smoked weed in years, but I used to).  Well, when that happens you need to take a "tolerance" break.
> 
> I just found the same to be true with headphones and equipment.  I couldn't listen to my equipment at all for the last week.  I just turned everything on and listened to the TCs, and I'm like, "wow."  That "wow" factor goes away if you listen to your equipment every single day.  You can get it back with a nice couple of days "tolerance" break.  Now, can I force myself to not listen to music on purpose though?  That remains to be seen




I get my tolerance break whenever I go on vacation, which is Pmuch every year. 

Been away from my rig 2 weeks now, few more days left to go. I and I know when I get back and out my TV on my head again I'm going to be blown away all over again. 

So I experience this once or twice a year  

It also internally justifies all the money I've spent in audio. When I'm away for a bit, and finally ositen again, I say to myself.... "yes, it's worth it"


----------



## ken6217

You’re 100% correct. When I take a few days break the music sounds so much better. I also I find I enjoy listening more rather than analyzing it.

However with weed, you don’t need to spend  a lot on equipment. Music even sounds good on an iPod. LOL


----------



## matthewhypolite

ken6217 said:


> You’re 100% correct. When I take a few days break the music sounds so much better. I also I find I enjoy listening more rather than analyzing it.
> 
> However with weed, you don’t need to spend  a lot on equipment. Music even sounds good on an iPod. LOL


ROFL,!!!


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

ken6217 said:


> You’re 100% correct. When I take a few days break the music sounds so much better. I also I find I enjoy listening more rather than analyzing it.
> 
> However with weed, you don’t need to spend  a lot on equipment. Music even sounds good on an iPod. LOL


That is very true. My power beats pro that I use for the gym sounds like my old Utopia after some of the Devils lettuce lol


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> You know how when you smoke weed everyday, you gain a tolerance? (BTW, haven't smoked weed in years, but I used to).  Well, when that happens you need to take a "tolerance" break.
> 
> I just found the same to be true with headphones and equipment.  I couldn't listen to my equipment at all for the last week.  I just turned everything on and listened to the TCs, and I'm like, "wow."  That "wow" factor goes away if you listen to your equipment every single day.  You can get it back with a nice couple of days "tolerance" break.  Now, can I force myself to not listen to music on purpose though?  That remains to be seen




totally true, this is even in effect when listening for an extended time...I find if I pause the music for a few minutes and turn it back in I enjoy it more.....


----------



## joseph69

Ciggavelli said:


> That "wow" factor goes away if you listen to your equipment every single day. You can get it back with a nice couple of days "tolerance" break.


100%
I don't care how good your system sounds, after listening too much you lose the thrill (like anything else). 
This happens to me quite a bit because I listen every night, and I'm finding it's happen too much lately so I definitely need a break.


----------



## jlbrach

sometimes I will put on an album and be wowed and overwhelmed as to how good it sounds and then without a break go on to another album and find myself not experiencing the same wow factor....the solution, turn it off and watch some tv or read and come back to it in 30 minutes and presto wow factor again


----------



## joseph69 (Dec 30, 2019)

jlbrach said:


> sometimes I will put on an album and be wowed and overwhelmed as to how good it sounds and then without a break* go on to another album* and find myself not experiencing the same wow factor....the solution, turn it off and watch some tv or read and come back to it in 30 minutes and presto wow factor again


I'd think that the album that wowed you was much better recorded than the next, no? I shuffle whatever Genre I'm listening to and this allows me to hear big differences between recording no matter their sample rate/format. You have Roon? If so, listen to Brian Simpsons song Castaway (even if it's not for your taste) and you'll be blown away at how well this is recorded compared to many other recordings.

EDIT: I meant Tidal, not Roon. 
Castaway is on the album 'Just what you needed'.


----------



## elan120

joseph69 said:


> I'd think that the album that wowed you was much better recorded than the next, no? I shuffle whatever Genre I'm listening to and this allows me to hear big differences between recording no matter their sample rate/format. You have Roon? If so, listen to Brian Simpsons song Castaway (even if it's not for your taste) and you'll be blown away at how well this is recorded compared to many other recordings.
> 
> EDIT: I meant Tidal, not Roon.
> Castaway is on the album 'Just what you needed'.


Thanks for the recommendation.  Found it and listening now except I am using Qobuz version.


----------



## JLoud

I like to rotate thru my headphone collection. Keeps the WOW factor coming.


----------



## mulder01

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> That is very true. My power beats pro that I use for the gym sounds like my old Utopia after some of the Devils lettuce lol


for audio nirvana you either need Abyss Total Consciousness or Beats and altered consciousness


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

mulder01 said:


> for audio nirvana you either need Abyss Total Consciousness or Beats and altered consciousness


It’s altered alright! Lol


----------



## jlbrach

I tend to try to listen to the best recorded music I can but sadly a lot of my favorite music is not well recorded. That said in any case when I listen for long periods of time I do need to take breaks to appreciate the music. I also find time of day and mood makes a difference or even how you are feeling etc. it is all so very subjective


----------



## ken6217

As an addendum to this, I find there are times when I put on my headphones to listen and I’m just not in the right frame of mind to listen to music, and therefor everything sounds off.


----------



## AMHaudio

Can anyone help? 

Will XLR Balance cable of Audeze LCD work in Abyss 1266 Phi TC?
Thanks in advance..


----------



## ken6217

AMHaudio said:


> Can anyone help?
> 
> Will XLR Balance cable of Audeze LCD work in Abyss 1266 Phi TC?
> Thanks in advance..



No. The pins are different.


----------



## ekfc63

Don't know if this has come up before but I'm looking for a headphone stand for the 1266s that doesn't involve suspending from the elasticated headband.  Any ideas?


----------



## ken6217

Just let it hang by the metal frame above the headband. Put some felt or similar on the stand so it doesn’t scratch the metal.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Dec 30, 2019)

ekfc63 said:


> Don't know if this has come up before but I'm looking for a headphone stand for the 1266s that doesn't involve suspending from the elasticated headband.  Any ideas?


@tholt shared this idea... I love it. I use two... they work perfectly!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PFV1NQX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## JLoud

This is a headphone hanger I got from Amazon. Fairly sturdy and is padded. I use it for my Abyss 1266 TC.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01K2OMSSA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Bonddam

So Abyss took care of my 1266 phi tc. What they did:
1 paid for shipping both ways
2 replaced my 1266
3 I bought a Formula S and SC so because they are out of stock on the amp they gave me a y connector to use on my current amp.
4 best of all from Thursday to Friday without the headphone. So only 2 days now I live in NJ not that far but fast non the less.
Some of the best customer service.


----------



## JLoud

Looks like this,


----------



## Litlgi74

@lockjaw shared this ingenious headband mod for when the o-rings break.


----------



## lockjaw

Hey man, thanks for the nod! 

It works really well and I was able to swap out various sized O rings to get the position "just right."  As we Abyss owners all know, every tweak makes a big difference.

Abyss, if you are watching, I wonder if there is some other design solution for the 1266?  Hurts a little when 5,000 dollar headphone end up needing a new headband every few years.  150 is pretty steep, though I understand this is a special product.  Gotta pay if you want to play.


----------



## ken6217

Doesn’t look like any of these headphones stands address the issue the OP was saying about having the headband rest on the stand.


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> So Abyss took care of my 1266 phi tc. What they did:
> 1 paid for shipping both ways
> 2 replaced my 1266
> 3 I bought a Formula S and SC so because they are out of stock on the amp they gave me a y connector to use on my current amp.
> ...



So what was did they say was the problem with your headphone that they needed to replace it?


----------



## Litlgi74

ken6217 said:


> Doesn’t look like any of these headphones stands address the issue the OP was saying about having the headband rest on the stand.


I think you misread... 


ekfc63 said:


> I'm looking for a headphone stand for the 1266s that doesn't involve suspending from the elasticated headband


@tholt solution does not involve the elasticated headband... but rather the headphone hangs from the upper frame.


----------



## ekfc63

ken6217 said:


> Doesn’t look like any of these headphones stands address the issue the OP was saying about having the headband rest on the stand.



Yes thanks for all the great suggestions, but I am looking for a stand rather than a hanger.


----------



## ken6217

Litlgi74 said:


> I think you misread...
> 
> @tholt solution does not involve the elasticated headband... but rather the headphone hangs from the upper frame.



Oh. I see. Somehow I did not pick it up looking on my phone. I like that idea.


----------



## Litlgi74

ken6217 said:


> Oh. I see. Somehow I did not pick it up looking on my phone. I like that idea.


It works great... and it's CHEAP!


----------



## Litlgi74

ekfc63 said:


> Yes thanks for all the great suggestions, but I am looking for a stand rather than a hanger.


I thought I read somewhere that Abyss was going to be selling this type of stand... might be wrong.



Mikey99 said:


> I just spoke with Stefan from Headphone Auditions. He expects the next batch in 2 to 3 weeks. That is why the stand is not on his website yet. You can contact him at stefan@headphoneaudtions.nl to pre-order at €349,- incl. international shipping & handling.


----------



## ken6217

Litlgi74 said:


> I thought I read somewhere that Abyss was going to be selling this type of stand... might be wrong.





Litlgi74 said:


> I thought I read somewhere that Abyss was going to be selling this type of stand... might be wrong.



That’s a beauty.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Litlgi74 said:


> It works great... and it's CHEAP!





Yes it does that is my current storage solution as well.


----------



## Litlgi74

CreditingKarma said:


> Yes it does that is my current storage solution as well.


I thought I recognized them in your last picture... nice rack.


----------



## FLTWS

My modified Woo Stand


----------



## ken6217

CreditingKarma said:


> Yes it does that is my current storage solution as well.



Which USB cable is that?


----------



## CreditingKarma (Dec 30, 2019)

ken6217 said:


> Which USB cable is that?



It is a curious usb cable. Everything else in the system is transparent cable. I am looking into their usb cable as well but it starts at $600. I want to upgrade my speaker cable first to ultra level but they run almost $3,900 for 10ft runs.


----------



## CreditingKarma

FLTWS said:


> My modified Woo Stand




Love the pair of abyss. Are you keeping both?


----------



## ken6217

CreditingKarma said:


> It is a curious usb cable. Everything else in the system is transparent cable. I am looking into their usb cable as well but it starts at $600. I want to upgrade my speaker cable first to ultra level but they run almost $3,900 for 10ft runs.



Thanks

I had transparent ultra interconnects and super speaker cables on my old two channel system.I got rid of everything to upgrade my home theater.

i’m using MIT Oracle for my headphone interconnects and digital AWS/EBU cable. I like them a lot. 

Check Audiogon or USA Audiomart to see if they have any of the transparent ultra. Mark up is crazy on cables


----------



## FLTWS

No, I rented the TC back earlier this year and spent 2 weeks comparing it to my Phi. The Phi I purchased Dec 2017. The TC was brand new with 1 rental before me and the dealer does a burn-in for a period of time when they get new models. I did a write-up of my time spent with both here; Post 8142 April 27, 2019

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-543#post-14922953

The Phi is still in my stable of phones.


----------



## CreditingKarma

ken6217 said:


> Thanks
> 
> I had transparent ultra interconnects and super speaker cables on my old two channel system.I got rid of everything to upgrade my home theater.
> 
> ...



Yes it is I am pretty sure the dealers get something close to 50pts on cables. They get even more if they are a reference level dealer for transparent. I would love to try some opus level cables just to see how they are. First I would neetld to upgrade my speakers to at least a pair of Magico M2 but they are $60k a pair and the cables start at $39k. So this will not happen unless I hit the powerball jackpot. 

I have plus speaker cables right now and am pretty happy with them.


----------



## Bonddam

Got ask, what is the type of wire used in the super conductor? I do like the wire a lot but would like to know more about it.


----------



## Bonddam

Something kinda stupid i have to sit still so my sweet spot isn't ruined. Moving my head around changes low end frequencies.


----------



## NZtechfreak (Dec 30, 2019)

Well, it finally happened, just pulled trigger on the Abyss. Been saving a couple months and came up for $4186 USD with a New Years special so I figured it was time. Despite specifically saving for it I still experienced a moment of "What I am doing?!" as I sent the payment, haha.

(interesting side-note where it says "What" above I actually typed the acronym of Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, still shows as the acronym in post editor)


----------



## ken6217

Congrats. Don't worry, the "what am I doing" will soon be replaced with "I'm glad I did it".


----------



## NZtechfreak

ken6217 said:


> Congrats. Don't worry, the "what am I doing" will soon be replaced with "I'm glad I did it".



Oh, definitely. There is a reason I have been saving for them! I don't think I shall be making another open-back headphone purchase after this, maybe I will feel like I have to have the Dianna Phi for at work though, but otherwise can't see it happening (apart from wanting the Abyss forever I have learnt to be pretty satisfied with what I have). Closed back solution will be next...


----------



## CreditingKarma

NZtechfreak said:


> Oh, definitely. There is a reason I have been saving for them! I don't think I shall be making another open-back headphone purchase after this, maybe I will feel like I have to have the Dianna Phi for at work though, but otherwise can't see it happening (apart from wanting the Abyss forever I have learnt to be pretty satisfied with what I have). Closed back solution will be next...




I skipped the closed back and went with the noble Khan instead. I liken them to my Abyss TC iem. With my sp1000 they sound great


----------



## Ciggavelli

Bonddam said:


> Got ask, what is the type of wire used in the super conductor? I do like the wire a lot but would like to know more about it.


JPS Labs proprietary Alumiloy.  I don't know what that means specifically though


----------



## NZtechfreak

CreditingKarma said:


> I skipped the closed back and went with the noble Khan instead. I liken them to my Abyss TC iem. With my sp1000 they sound great



Would love to have the option, but I can't/won't do IEMs!


----------



## AMHaudio

ken6217 said:


> No. The pins are different.


Thanks for your reply..


----------



## Mikey99 (Dec 31, 2019)

Litlgi74 said:


> I thought I read somewhere that Abyss was going to be selling this type of stand... might be wrong.


I heard from Stefan that he was setting something up with Abyss so they could offer it too. Not sure if that has happened yet. At this point production has been very limited, he sells them out as soon as they are made.


----------



## mulder01

Just do a quick image search for headphone stand and pick something high and with a thin holder at the top to go between the frame and the headband - Like this:
https://satechi.net/products/satechi-slim-aluminum-headphone-stand


----------



## ken6217

You can use the JPS stand as well. Instead of resting the headband on the thin metal piece, let it rest on the frame above it. Works for me.


----------



## AMHaudio

Presently I am keeping my Abyss TC like this. The headband elasticity is not altered for stand storing. Once I don't listen, keep the supplied cover ON, to protect from dust. (Sorry for my background wall, it's for my Kid's freehand drawing..) ...


----------



## tholt

I used to use the Abyss stand -- hanging the headphones by the frame instead of the headband as being discussed. Get a tube of pipe foam at the hardware store, cut to size and instant cushy and more protected solution than resting metal frame on metal stand.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Litlgi74 said:


> I thought I recognized them in your last picture... nice rack.




Unfortunately I brought the rack back. We found a chip in the finish on it. It is a nice unit I am not sure that it is worth $3,500 MSRP I can have a nicer rack custom made for that price. I am also not convinced of the benefit of the rack with a digital system. I can always add isolation on each piece of equipment and have a nice looking rack.

As an upside when I returned it I used some of the return credit to upgrade the Aries G1 to the Aries G2. I am going to compare it with a friends Innuos Zenith mk3. I can tell you that Auralic wins on build quality hands down. The G2 is also a significant step up from the G1.


----------



## ken6217

CreditingKarma said:


> Unfortunately I brought the rack back. We found a chip in the finish on it. It is a nice unit I am not sure that it is worth $3,500 MSRP I can have a nicer rack custom made for that price. I am also not convinced of the benefit of the rack with a digital system. I can always add isolation on each piece of equipment and have a nice looking rack.
> 
> As an upside when I returned it I used some of the return credit to upgrade the Aries G1 to the Aries G2. I am going to compare it with a friends Innuos Zenith mk3. I can tell you that Auralic wins on build quality hands down. The G2 is also a significant step up from the G1.



Do yourself a BIG favor. Don't change servers. Get the Innous Phoenix Reclocker. It is amazing. Makes instruments/music really sound like how they are supposed to sound. I got mine on Saturday. I hooked it up to my son's NUC with LPS and it sounded better than my Antipodes DX without the Phonenix. See if you can demo one. You can use the money from the rack as it's $3150. I say without a doubt you will love it. 

Here is some info below:

"The PhoenixUSB Reclocker takes the USB signal from any source and completely regenerates it to an extremely high-precision signal to feed into your DAC, allowing it to perform at its best.

The PhoenixUSB offers in one unit the equivalent of 3 separate components: A USB regenerator, a linear power supply and an external master clock with its own linear power supply. 

Innuos applied 3 main design approaches learning from their experience with the Innuos flagship music server, the STATEMENT: 

_· The USB chip regenerating the signal contains no switching regulators. All 3 independent voltages to the chip originate from an independent linear power supply with further regulation provided by 3 sets of LT3045 regulators. _

_· The use of a 3ppb OCXO clock running directly at 24MHz and connected via a board track just a couple of inches away from the USB chip. Therefore, no precision is lost within cables and connectors, as is the case when using an external master 10MHz clock with an additional 24MHz clock generator._

_ · Two independent Statement-level linear power supplies, one dedicated to the OCXO clock and the other used for powering the USB chip/5V USB line."_


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> Do yourself a BIG favor. Don't change servers. Get the Innous Phoenix Reclocker. It is amazing. Makes instruments/music really sound like how they are supposed to sound. I got mine on Saturday. I hooked it up to my son's NUC with LPS and it sounded better than my Antipodes DX without the Phonenix. See if you can demo one. You can use the money from the rack as it's $3150. I say without a doubt you will love it.
> 
> Here is some info below:
> 
> ...



Interesting. Have you heard the Uptone ISO REGEN, SOtM txUSBultra, or the Mutec usb reclockers?  If so, how does Innous compare?


----------



## ken6217

Have had everything but the Mutek. Those ere toys compared to the Phoenix.


----------



## CreditingKarma

ken6217 said:


> Do yourself a BIG favor. Don't change servers. Get the Innous Phoenix Reclocker. It is amazing. Makes instruments/music really sound like how they are supposed to sound. I got mine on Saturday. I hooked it up to my son's NUC with LPS and it sounded better than my Antipodes DX without the Phonenix. See if you can demo one. You can use the money from the rack as it's $3150. I say without a doubt you will love it.
> 
> Here is some info below:
> 
> ...




I will actually be trying one out tomorrow. I don't have any plan of changing my server. I currently use my mac as the roon core and that feeds the Auralic Aries G2 over the network into the Chord TT2. I am also curious about the Auralic master clock / reclocker but that is over $8k


----------



## ken6217 (Dec 31, 2019)

You're trying the Phoenix tomorrow?

Btw, I see you have the Magico S1Mk2. Have you listened to the Wilson Sabrina? They are about the same price.I demoed them a few weeks ago when I bought my amp. They sounded great. Never got the opportunity to listen to any of the Magico speakers.


----------



## CreditingKarma

ken6217 said:


> You're trying the Phoenix tomorrow?



Yes I am my friend is an innuos dealer. I am going to try it with the zenith mk3 and my Aurali Aries G2. With a pair of Magico M2, Dave, and D'Agostino amplification. I can't wait to see how it turns out.


----------



## ken6217

CreditingKarma said:


> Yes I am my friend is an innuos dealer. I am going to try it with the zenith mk3 and my Aurali Aries G2. With a pair of Magico M2, Dave, and D'Agostino amplification. I can't wait to see how it turns out.



I was wondering because there’s not many out there. They were just released to the states last week, and they were filling the pre-orders first. I happen to find one available.


----------



## CreditingKarma

ken6217 said:


> I was wondering because there’s not many out there. They were just released to the states last week, and they were filling the pre-orders first. I happen to find one available.



Yeah he ordered on for his store and a buddy also ordered on as soo. As they were announced.only one came in so far. They are really hard to get as of now. This is like the launch of the TT2 in the US earlier this year.


----------



## ahossam

My TC just arrived, time to burn it in.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ahossam said:


> My TC just arrived, time to burn it in.


Congrats!  A great way to start off the new year


----------



## Litlgi74

Wow... Check this song out...


https://tidal.com/track/116096136


----------



## supervisor

CreditingKarma said:


> Yes I am my friend is an innuos dealer. I am going to try it with the zenith mk3 and my Aurali Aries G2. With a pair of Magico M2, Dave, and D'Agostino amplification. I can't wait to see how it turns out.



what thread will you post your impressions? there is a server thread. very curious what you find!


----------



## ahossam

24 hours break in times, the treble still sound harsh but its still a long way to go to 100+ hours and I still playing with the pads and adjusting the frames. This is my first Abyss 1266 I hope I ended up like it.


----------



## ken6217

supervisor said:


> what thread will you post your impressions? there is a server thread. very curious what you find!



Is there a thread for the Phoenix?

So far I’ve found, and without It fully broken that the sound is very spacious, and the music and notes sound very real and with texture. When you hear a guitar being plucked or a drum being hit, it sounds how you would hear it live. Also detail that might have sounded faint without the Phoenix, now are more prominent. Also nice spacing and instrument placement.


----------



## supervisor

ken6217 said:


> Is there a thread for the Phoenix?
> 
> So far I’ve found, and without It fully broken that the sound is very spacious, and the music and notes sound very real and with texture. When you hear a guitar being plucked or a drum being hit, it sounds how you would hear it live. Also detail that might have sounded faint without the Phoenix, now are more prominent. Also nice spacing and instrument placement.



i already have a Zenith mk3 into M-Scaler/TT2. Not sure how much benefit I’d get from the Phoenix for +$3,000 in this setup, but definitely curious.


----------



## CreditingKarma

supervisor said:


> i already have a Zenith mk3 into M-Scaler/TT2. Not sure how much benefit I’d get from the Phoenix for +$3,000 in this setup, but definitely curious.



I did audition the Aries G2 against a zenith mk3 and found the Aries to be my preference. I found the Aries to be more precise with imaging and sound signature the zenith was a bit softer to me. If I want to I can set the filter to smooth in the Aries and get some of that softness if I want. The build quality though hands down goes to auralic. The G2 series are built like tanks.

I am going to try and get my hands on a Leo GX to test with a Vega G2 if I can. I am interested to see what the Phoenix can do with the Aries though. Maybe next week I will get an in home audition.


----------



## ken6217

What the Phoenix does is different than a component that upsamples, or upgrading a server or DAC. It serves a different purpose. It is basically "fixing" for lack of a better word the signal that is coming out of the server.


----------



## CreditingKarma

I really want to try the Phoenix against the leo gx. The leo gx is a master clock so it would be interesting to see the difference.


----------



## ken6217 (Jan 2, 2020)

Damn. Just saw the price. For that money you could get the Phoenix and upgrade another component. 

One of the selling points by Innous is that the clock is internal and no need for a cable. Cables as you know can have there own issues.

If you can A-B both, let us know what you think.


----------



## TubedB

Picked up a pair of Abyss 1266 Phi's over the Holidays. Although they are a bit awkward in size, they are truly great sounding headphones. I'm curious to know what source material are other 1266 owners listening to that takes full advantage of such a high-end headphone? I'm assuming it is mostly digital music, but any recommendations of favorite recordings / albums / tracks?


----------



## llamaluv

Here's my good-enough home remedy for the Abyss headphone stand situation. The rubber feet keep the Woo metal stand from getting scratched and keep the Abyss from swiveling while resting. It's also semi-reversible and not too much of an eyesore.


----------



## supervisor

does JPS Labs tell people to not hang the HPs from the leather band or are people just taking precautions here?


----------



## Bonddam

No it’s just to keep the strap from wearing out.


----------



## ken6217 (Jan 3, 2020)

supervisor said:


> does JPS Labs tell people to not hang the HPs from the leather band or are people just taking precautions here?



That’s what he’s asking. He wants to know if JPS is saying not to hang it from the headband so it doesn’t wear out.


----------



## mulder01

Not a JPS recommendation - just some people's preference. 
IIRC the supplied Abyss stand isn't tall enough to hang the headphone by the metal frame with the cables attached


----------



## llamaluv

mulder01 said:


> IIRC the supplied Abyss stand isn't tall enough to hang the headphone by the metal frame with the cables attached


LOL, design fail on top of design fail.


----------



## ken6217

Yes it can. Mine does.


----------



## Roasty

Do you guys manage to find a sweet spot with regards to the earpads? 

If I have the seams at 10 o'clock, vocals seem fuller and more forward, but soundstage is smaller and bass is less impactful. 

If I have the seams at 9 o'clock, soundstage is awesome and so is the bass, but then vocals seem recessed, tinny and echoey.

Halfway in between would be great.. 

How did u guys set yours up? Max bass and soundstage or a sacrifice a bit of those for a more even and balanced presentation?


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jan 3, 2020)

Roasty said:


> Do you guys manage to find a sweet spot with regards to the earpads?
> 
> If I have the seams at 10 o'clock, vocals seem fuller and more forward, but soundstage is smaller and bass is less impactful.
> 
> ...


I'm in the same predicament. 

This track has wonderful LFE... https://tidal.com/track/116096136

But at 9 and 3 o'clock the bass gets very boomy almost distorted... But at 10 and 2... It is underwhelming when compared to my two channel setup.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Roasty said:


> Do you guys manage to find a sweet spot with regards to the earpads?
> 
> If I have the seams at 10 o'clock, vocals seem fuller and more forward, but soundstage is smaller and bass is less impactful.
> 
> ...




Earoqd position alone won't do it for you, you also have to dial in the headband width and angle. Mines is slightly pulled apart and angled inward. Let me take some photos


----------



## ken6217

I was wondering the ear pad position would be the same for every person? Maybe size and shape of the head could be a variable? 

I have mine set as Matthew above. I also have the ear pads at 11:00 which gives a lot of bass, but it looks like it shouldn't be the correct position as the openings are definitely not close to how my ears look. 

I'm going to try 9:00 as mentioned a couple of posts ago. 10:00 doesn't give enough bass.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Here's my config, this gives the best balance of evrything for me :


----------



## ken6217

matthewhypolite said:


> Here's my config, this gives the best balance of evrything for me :



Damn! Nice call. Give that man a cigar. Everything you said worked for me as well.


----------



## Roasty

matthewhypolite said:


> Here's my config, this gives the best balance of evrything for me :



Thanks much for that! 
I've had them spread out wide, but never really played about with the angle of the metal braces. I hope it works for me. Am going to give them a try later tonight. 
Cheers dude!


----------



## ken6217 (Jan 3, 2020)

Listening to a few more songs. Thats killed two birds with one stone. Much bigger soundstage and better quality bass. Tight and not boomy.

Very dramatic difference.


----------



## matthewhypolite

ken6217 said:


> Listening to a few more songs. Thats killed two birds with one stone. Much bigger soundstage and better quality bass. Tight and not boomy.
> 
> Very dramatic difference.


Glad it worked out . 

Now you can begin to discover the magic of the abyss. Enjoy!


----------



## Roasty

matthewhypolite said:


> Glad it worked out .
> 
> Now you can begin to discover the magic of the abyss. Enjoy!



Maybe I need some superconductor cables to achieve some of that magic too.. And maybe change out the Wa22 for 33, and try a NOS dac + dedicated streamer.

Oh dear me..


----------



## matthewhypolite

Roasty said:


> Maybe I need some superconductor cables to achieve some of that magic too.. And maybe change out the Wa22 for 33, and try a NOS dac + dedicated streamer.
> 
> Oh dear me..



ROFL. 

Every little bit does allow the abyss to extract more. But I'm sure it sounds plenty good already on a wa22


----------



## ken6217

matthewhypolite said:


> Glad it worked out .
> 
> Now you can begin to discover the magic of the abyssI was actually going to say the same thing. 2016





matthewhypolite said:


> Glad it worked out .
> 
> Now you can begin to discover the magic of the abyss. Enjoy!



I actually was going to say the same thing in my previous post.


----------



## nyceg

Hi gang, I’m flying back home and am excited to meet my new Abyss headphones.  I’ve managed to arrange a custom amp, but am still researching a stand alone dac.  Any recommendations for something in the $1,000-$2,000 range that’s strictly brand new would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!


----------



## tholt

The right fit is subjective of course to the listener, and also the type of music being played. I used to have them at 9 and 3 oclock like the images, but as others have found, with some tracks the bass was boomy to the point of distorting (I listen to a lot of electronica, so this happened frequently). I've since moved the pads to 11 oclock and 1 oclock. The bass did go down but for me, everything else evened out and the mids fleshed out nicely. The bass is a little less, but overall the sound is much more balanced. 

Also as noted, headband width and angle also affect the sound. I've found toeing in just slightly makes a big difference vs if the band is straight across.


----------



## matthewhypolite

tholt said:


> The right fit is subjective of course to the listener, and also the type of music being played. I used to have them at 9 and 3 oclock like the images, but as others have found, with some tracks the bass was boomy to the point of distorting (I listen to a lot of electronica, so this happened frequently). I've since moved the pads to 11 oclock and 1 oclock. The bass did go down but for me, everything else evened out and the mids fleshed out nicely. The bass is a little less, but overall the sound is much more balanced.
> 
> Also as noted, headband width and angle also affect the sound. I've found toeing in just slightly makes a big difference vs if the band is straight across.



As you say that, it reminded me that on the phi cc I had the orientation on 10/11 as well, but with the TC I had to adjsut it as in the photos.


----------



## tholt

matthewhypolite said:


> As you say that, it reminded me that on the phi cc I had the orientation on 10/11 as well, but with the TC I had to adjsut it as in the photos.



That's interesting


----------



## mulder01

llamaluv said:


> LOL, design fail on top of design fail.


Well, not really, you're just meant to hang it on the headband.  I hung mine on the headband for years and never had an issue.


----------



## tholt

nyceg said:


> Hi gang, I’m flying back home and am excited to meet my new Abyss headphones. I’ve managed to arrange a custom amp, but am still researching a stand alone dac. Any recommendations for something in the $1,000-$2,000 range that’s strictly brand new would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!



My general .02 would be to avoid a DAC that is hyper-detailed and/or tending toward cool and clinical. IME that can push the Abyss in the wrong direction and things can sound thin, edgy or bright. This can also be said for your amp.

Synergy is key with the 1266, which is a detail monster and not what I would consider warm.


----------



## llamaluv

mulder01 said:


> you're just meant to hang it on the headband.  I hung mine on the headband for years and never had an issue.


That's good to know actually.


----------



## Roasty

Anyone here has experience with NOS dacs with the abyss? 
Am curious about the NOS sound and am looking at the metrum onyx/pavane, denafrips, and holo spring. 
I've not heard any NOS dacs before but I've read the NOS sound is warmer and soundstage is bigger, with better bass extension than OS dacs. Seems like it would add some more goodness to the Abyss?


----------



## ahossam

I have WA5 LE pair with Yggdrasil Analog 2. 

How are the synergy between the Yggdrasil and Abyss 1266?


----------



## CreditingKarma

Roasty said:


> Anyone here has experience with NOS dacs with the abyss?
> Am curious about the NOS sound and am looking at the metrum onyx/pavane, denafrips, and holo spring.
> I've not heard any NOS dacs before but I've read the NOS sound is warmer and soundstage is bigger, with better bass extension than OS dacs. Seems like it would add some more goodness to the Abyss?



I used to have a metrum onyx with my abyss. I really like the metrum. The sound was bit more dense to me and some might find the bass and lower mids to be fuller as well.

 I sold mine to upgrade to the TT2. I find the sound stage larger with the chord. The imaging is also more accurate as well. I would really like to hear the pavane I actually had one on order but something happened with the order and I ended up getting the TT2 instead. I have also heard great things about the terminator as well.


----------



## JLoud

ahossam said:


> I have WA5 LE pair with Yggdrasil Analog 2.
> 
> How are the synergy between the Yggdrasil and Abyss 1266?



I have that combination and feel they pair well. The 1266 can retrieve a lot of details and the Yggdrasil provides them. I feel both a generally neutral in presentation.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> Anyone here has experience with NOS dacs with the abyss?
> Am curious about the NOS sound and am looking at the metrum onyx/pavane, denafrips, and holo spring.
> I've not heard any NOS dacs before but I've read the NOS sound is warmer and soundstage is bigger, with better bass extension than OS dacs. Seems like it would add some more goodness to the Abyss?



Yes. I have a Metrum Pavane Level 3 DAC. Love the sound. I sold my dCS Debussy for it.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Demoing then Superconductor headphone cable with my Abyss TC on a XI Formula S/Powerman fronted by Dave/MScaler.

I just listened for one night for a number of hours. Mids are thicker, treble is sweeter, background is blacker. Can’t determine if I am getting the same depth as with the stock cable as lower mids are more forward.

While this cable is clearly better and more refined overall, the one surprise was the dynamics seem lessened and the bass seems to have a bit less punch (than stock cable). Trying to determine if this is intrinsic to the cable or a product of the synergy of the cable with this amplifier.

Overall I really like the textures and any slight glare and fatigue in the treble is gone. That said, I think the TC probably already improved significantly in this area over previous models. Curious as to whether others have the same experience with this cable/amp pairing - or different experiences with other amps.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Drewligarchy said:


> Demoing then Superconductor headphone cable with my Abyss TC on a XI Formula S/Powerman fronted by Dave/MScaler.
> 
> I just listened for one night for a number of hours. Mids are thicker, treble is sweeter, background is blacker. Can’t determine if I am getting the same depth as with the stock cable as lower mids are more forward.
> 
> ...


Jay at Audiobacon said the same thing about the bass having less punch than the stock cable.  However, I do not notice that with my setup.  In fact, I feel like the bass is even more punchy with the SC cables.  I'm using the WA33 amp, which may be the reason, I don't know.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Ciggavelli said:


> Jay at Audiobacon said the same thing about the bass having less punch than the stock cable.  However, I do not notice that with my setup.  In fact, I feel like the bass is even more punchy with the SC cables.  I'm using the WA33 amp, which may be the reason, I don't know.



Standard Wa33 correct? I’ve been considering it. I only heard the Elite however in the Woo room at CanJam last year. TT2 is possibly a little thicker than DAVE as well, but more likely the amp. 
I need more listening. I don’t think the bass bleeds into the mids as some have said - it sounds more cohesive to me. Rather the kids are slightly recessed with the stock cable so the bass sounds more disconnected - but not necessarily in a bad way - it’s just preference. Again I only listened for about 4 hours so need some more time.


----------



## Delacaff

spotforscott said:


> I agree, not sure why Jay had that perception? My expereince is the same as yours...



I have the TC with SC cable powered by full XI audio combo. Before the SC cable, I had the stock cable. I experienced this sensation of having more impactful / lower bass with the stock cable (and flying highs BTW). My explanation is that the stock cable lacks medium and balance. This then leads to highlighting the bass more than it should. The SC cable is far much balanced than the stock one IMHO, conveying richer tones and bringing back the mids upfront. The bass then takes their "right" place, neither being highlighted nor absent. The stock cable is a nice cable to demonstrate the abilities of Abyss in terms of frequency range (bass especially) but I didn't find it very involving.


----------



## commtrd

Anyone used TC with the new GSX Mini amp? Currently at Hugo 2 and GSX Mini, wondering how the Abyss performs with that chain.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Drewligarchy said:


> Standard Wa33 correct? I’ve been considering it. I only heard the Elite however in the Woo room at CanJam last year. TT2 is possibly a little thicker than DAVE as well, but more likely the amp.
> I need more listening. I don’t think the bass bleeds into the mids as some have said - it sounds more cohesive to me. Rather the kids are slightly recessed with the stock cable so the bass sounds more disconnected - but not necessarily in a bad way - it’s just preference. Again I only listened for about 4 hours so need some more time.



Please note that if you demoed the wa33 or Elite with stock tubes, they are not very good. After getting a wa33 the very next step should be to upgrade the tubes. 

Re: SC cable, in my experience I found the SC made evrything better.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Drewligarchy said:


> Standard Wa33 correct? I’ve been considering it. I only heard the Elite however in the Woo room at CanJam last year. TT2 is possibly a little thicker than DAVE as well, but more likely the amp.
> I need more listening. I don’t think the bass bleeds into the mids as some have said - it sounds more cohesive to me. Rather the kids are slightly recessed with the stock cable so the bass sounds more disconnected - but not necessarily in a bad way - it’s just preference. Again I only listened for about 4 hours so need some more time.


Yeah, standard WA33.  I've never heard the Elite version, but some posters on here say it's considerably better than the standard edition.  The standard edition sounds so good though.  I can't imagine how it could be improved.


----------



## ken6217

I only have the Superconductor cable and so I can’t compare. I love bass and I think any more bass than this wouldn’t sound natural. Also, if the stock cable would also bring with it too much in the treble region, it would be unlistenable for me. 

Just important to the conversation is everyone’s related equipment and other cables. Some systems could benefit by a cable that will give it more bass.


----------



## Jon L

Roasty said:


> I've not heard any NOS dacs before but I've read the NOS sound is warmer and soundstage is bigger, with better bass extension than OS dacs. Seems like it would add some more goodness to the Abyss?



If you've not heard NOS DAC's (usually the R2R NOS package), I strongly advise you to seriously audition some good ones, especially in your system if possible, before committing real money.  
It boils down to personal preference in the end, but personally, I prefer components to pass along as much original information as possible without adding anything that was not recorded, even if it may be pleasing smoothness, girth, warmth, which good R2R NOS DAC tends to...eh add.


----------



## MacedonianHero

llamaluv said:


> That's good to know actually.



I would ALWAYS recommend a DAC that is bang on neutral and pulls all of the detail from a recording...always!


----------



## MacedonianHero

commtrd said:


> Anyone used TC with the new GSX Mini amp? Currently at Hugo 2 and GSX Mini, wondering how the Abyss performs with that chain.



Brilliant pairing! Simply brilliant!


----------



## ken6217

MacedonianHero said:


> I would ALWAYS recommend a DAC that is bang on neutral and pulls all of the detail from a recording...always!



As long as it isn’t too lean sounding and lacking bass.


----------



## llamaluv

The DAC can have a huge impact and can definitely be the deciding factor that can tilt the scales towards "for" or "against". I'm still learning to appreciate this fact. 

I'm borrowing a friend's Terminator at the moment, which I'm enjoying a lot, and have found I like it very much with my speaker amp and the TC -- whereas I'm more ambivalent about my speaker amp with the TC with my normal DAC, which is a DAVE. 

And conversely, when it comes to my tube amp and the TC, I think I prefer the DAVE over the Terminator.


----------



## matthewhypolite

llamaluv said:


> The DAC can have a huge impact and can definitely be the deciding factor that can tilt the scales towards "for" or "against". I'm still learning to appreciate this fact.
> 
> I'm borrowing a friend's Terminator at the moment, which I'm enjoying a lot, and have found I like it very much with my speaker amp and the TC -- whereas I'm more ambivalent about my speaker amp with the TC with my normal DAC, which is a DAVE.
> 
> And conversely, when it comes to my tube amp and the TC, I think I prefer the DAVE over the Terminator.


For what reason do you prefer the Dave with your tubes/tc?


----------



## llamaluv

matthewhypolite said:


> For what reason do you prefer the Dave with your tubes/tc?


The Terminator has this really impressive free and relaxed sound. But so does my 300B tube amp. So, as is often the case, combining the two things with similar characteristics can lead to too much of a good thing. Well, I wouldn't say "too much", just that the DAVE's incisive and possibly slightly "leaner" sound (can't lie!) compliments or counter-balances the tube's warmer, fuller sound better. Both sound very nice, though.


----------



## ken6217

llamaluv said:


> The DAC can have a huge impact and can definitely be the deciding factor that can tilt the scales towards "for" or "against". I'm still learning to appreciate this fact.
> 
> I'm borrowing a friend's Terminator at the moment, which I'm enjoying a lot, and have found I like it very much with my speaker amp and the TC -- whereas I'm more ambivalent about my speaker amp with the TC with my normal DAC, which is a DAVE.
> 
> And conversely, when it comes to my tube amp and the TC, I think I prefer the DAVE over the Terminator.





llamaluv said:


> The Terminator has this really impressive free and relaxed sound. But so does my 300B tube amp. So, as is often the case, combining the two things with similar characteristics can lead to too much of a good thing. Well, I wouldn't say "too much", just that the DAVE's incisive and possibly slightly "leaner" sound (can't lie!) compliments or counter-balances the tube's warmer, fuller sound better. Both sound very nice, though.



And that’s it in a nut shell. Balancing out.


----------



## simorag

Drewligarchy said:


> Curious as to whether others have the same experience with this cable/amp pairing - or different experiences with other amps.



Your experience is very similar to mine


----------



## simorag

As I am exploring high power speaker amps for my RAAL SR1a, I found another very good pairing with the Abyss TC: the NAGRA Classic Amp.




 

I still like my AIC-10 best with the TC, due to a lusher sound signature, but the Classic Amp has been a fantastic listening as well.

In this post there are some more details, including some comparisons between the Abyss and the SR1a.

In short, the Abyss TC is still the best all-rounder for me personally, and the headphone I prefer - to date - for musical content where the best possible rendering of the heft, depth and scale of sub-bass energy is called for. However, the SR1a provides - within its sweet spot (to me acoustic music, baroque, solo stringed instruments, vocals) - a very unique listening experience, which makes me very reluctant to let them go


----------



## Litlgi74

simorag said:


> As I am exploring high power speaker amps for my RAAL SR1a, I found another very good pairing with the Abyss TC: the NAGRA Classic Amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is the amp that @Zhanming057 has been using with his Abyss, Raal, and MySphere setup.


----------



## Delacaff

Have you considered SPEC amps ? Lots of power and control + tube feeling.


----------



## gonzalo1004es

HI, I just posted for sale my power amp, which has been modified with a direct 4 pin XLR output for headphones, in my opinion it is absolutely outstanding with the Abyss, I moved to active speakers and cannot justify keeping it solely for headphones: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/apollon-nc800sl-speaker-headphone-amp.922653/


----------



## Sage Encore (Jan 6, 2020)

ken6217 said:


> Damn! Nice call. Give that man a cigar. Everything you said worked for me as well.


After almost a year and  half, finally. Thank you so much sir.


----------



## Sage Encore

Delacaff said:


> Have you considered SPEC amps ? Lots of power and control + tube feeling.


Im using one. V1EX. Its just brillant, I get the best of both worlds. Lots of power, control with that tubey sound, but a word of caution, it takes quiet a while to sound its best. My case, at least 30mins.


----------



## Sage Encore

matthewhypolite said:


> Here's my config, this gives the best balance of evrything for me :


with this position, does the back of the cups touch the back of the skull near the ears. Asking cause for me it does, but its comfortable and sounds bloody good.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Sage Encore said:


> with this position, does the back of the cups touch the back of the skull near the ears. Asking cause for me it does, but its comfortable and sounds bloody good.



Never really thought about it, cause like you say its comfortable, ill see when i get home later tonight.


----------



## ahossam (Jan 6, 2020)

80 plus hours burned in, the high starting to tamed down and overall the sound is more fuller and warmer without losing the transparency and detail retrieval. I don't perceives 1266 TC as a bright HP anymore, I can even starting to listening at higher volume now. Man! I starting to enjoyed this very much.


----------



## astrostar59

Sage Encore said:


> with this position, does the back of the cups touch the back of the skull near the ears. Asking cause for me it does, but its comfortable and sounds bloody good.


My positions pretty much mirror that. It took me about 2 weeks to finalise it, but since then, I left left it as is a satisfied. Very much so, especially out of the Genus,


----------



## Bonddam (Jan 6, 2020)

The toughest thing for me was getting the bass equal on both sides. I had to bend the frame on left out and bend in on the right. Before this I was getting all the bass on the right side. Also added a stick on head pad to the stock head band which centered my ears. It also got rid of hot spots from top of my head and temple region. The 1266 is able to glide back and forth just touching the skin so not to much moving around.


----------



## ken6217

I had wondered why I was getting more based on one side.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Sage Encore said:


> with this position, does the back of the cups touch the back of the skull near the ears. Asking cause for me it does, but its comfortable and sounds bloody good.



So im home now and opened the thread and remembered your question, and yes it very much does lol. never even noticed it before.


----------



## Bonddam

Hey bleep happens. Still not perfect. Should get another replacement.


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> Hey bleep happens. Still not perfect. Should get another replacement.



Huh? You’re getting another one?


----------



## matthewhypolite

ahossam said:


> 80 plus hours burned in, the high starting to tamed down and overall the sound is more fuller and warmer without losing the transparency and detail retrieval. I don't perceives 1266 TC as a bright HP anymore, I can even starting to listening at higher volume now. Man! I starting to enjoyed this very much.



150hrs is the sweet spot with the abyss. It's going to continue to get better , hang in there 



Bonddam said:


> The toughest thing for me was getting the bass equal on both sides. I had to bend the frame on left out and bend in on the right. Before this I was getting all the bass on the right side. Also added a stick on head pad to the stock head band which centered my ears. It also got rid of hot spots from top of my head and temple region. The 1266 is able to glide back and forth just touching the skin so not to much moving around.



Yea, it took me 2 months with my first abyss to really dial it in, but i have so much experience by now i know exactly what works and what doesnt. So when i got the TC, the adjustments to my original Phi config only took a day or so to dial it in perfect for the TC.
You should try out a headband mod to see how you like it, there are a few easily reversible mods you can try. See my own mod here: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/totl-headphones-comparison.856079/#post-13616612


----------



## tholt

matthewhypolite said:


> So im home now and opened the thread and remembered your question, and yes it very much does lol. never even noticed it before.



Based on the last image you attached showing the toe in, it appears to me like you are towing in toward the front of your head, not the back? IOW the pads would be tighter around the temples vs behind the ears. The Abyss logo on the image was upside down, and the toe in was pointed down as well. Maybe I'm confused


----------



## Bonddam

ken6217 said:


> Huh? You’re getting another one?


no not getting another just a joke. But I am getting Formula s and powerman hopefully for the weekend.


----------



## ken6217

He tows them in to the front. That worked for me as well.

Btw, so if there is more bass on one side, I need to shift the headphones left and right to even out the spacing between the ear pads and my face I assume?


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> no not getting another just a joke. But I am getting Formula s and powerman hopefully for the weekend.



Gotcha. I'm sure they will sound better with the new amp. I thought mine sounded good until I got me speaker amp. Huge difference.


----------



## Bonddam

ken6217 said:


> Gotcha. I'm sure they will sound better with the new amp. I thought mine sounded good until I got me speaker amp. Huge difference.


you have the Formula s?


----------



## matthewhypolite

tholt said:


> Based on the last image you attached showing the toe in, it appears to me like you are towing in toward the front of your head, not the back? IOW the pads would be tighter around the temples vs behind the ears. The Abyss logo on the image was upside down, and the toe in was pointed down as well. Maybe I'm confused



You are correct, it is angled towards the front, so its tighter at my temple, but i still do feel the pads right at the back of my ears. But more pressure is definitely on the temple. When angled the opposite way, i find in certain genres the bass can loose control. Angled inward the bass is nice and tight and controlled.


----------



## tholt

matthewhypolite said:


> You are correct, it is angled towards the front, so its tighter at my temple, but i still do feel the pads right at the back of my ears. But more pressure is definitely on the temple. When angled the opposite way, i find in certain genres the bass can loose control. Angled inward the bass is nice and tight and controlled.



Gotcha. Toe in either way definitely makes a difference. Thanks for the clarification


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> you have the Formula s?



No. I just meant getting a more powerful amp. I have a Simaudio 600i V2.


----------



## ken6217

I think I need to steal my wife's mirror so I can see of the headphone is centered each time I put it on. LOL..


----------



## matthewhypolite

ken6217 said:


> I think I need to steal my wife's mirror so I can see of the headphone is centered each time I put it on. LOL..



If you adjust the width of the headphone correctly, and potentially implement a mod i've posted earlier, you'll never really have to do this.
Every-time i put the headphone on my head now they sit perfectly center with zero effort.

Having a curve in the headband conforms to the shape of your head and it just naturally centers.

Let me see if i can take a picture of what im speaking about.




 

That natural curve makes the weight evenly distributed without the abyss having to "balance" on my head, and also allows a perfect center fit every time. The mod also allows me to have the abyss at the right "height" around my ears. Because if the abyss sits too low, the inside of the earpads jam against the top of my ears and it gets uncomfortable after a while. if it sits too high, the same happens with the bottom of my ear. So i have it dialed where my ears sit more or less center inside of the earpads.


----------



## Marco_tam (Jan 6, 2020)

Bonddam said:


> The toughest thing for me was getting the bass equal on both sides. I had to bend the frame on left out and bend in on the right. Before this I was getting all the bass on the right side. Also added a stick on head pad to the stock head band which centered my ears. It also got rid of hot spots from top of my head and temple region. The 1266 is able to glide back and forth just touching the skin so not to much moving around.



So after the replacement, the bass on both sides still remains unequal?


----------



## Roasty

ken6217 said:


> Gotcha. I'm sure they will sound better with the new amp. I thought mine sounded good until I got me speaker amp. Huge difference.



Curious what is it or what parameter am I looking for, that makes a speaker amp sound better?


----------



## Roasty

matthewhypolite said:


> If you adjust the width of the headphone correctly, and potentially implement a mod i've posted earlier, you'll never really have to do this.
> Every-time i put the headphone on my head now they sit perfectly center with zero effort.
> 
> Having a curve in the headband conforms to the shape of your head and it just naturally centers.
> ...



I also don't like it if the abyss sits too low; the earpads press on the top of my ears. Solved it by rotating the stock headband twice so the rubber bands become more taut, and then placing into my head. Works a treat!

Settled with pads at 10 and 2 o'clock, and the metal braces angled forwards slightly  (more pressure on back of ear and slight opening in front). Solved the echoey tinniness of the highs/vocals, and although the bass is slightly reduced from the pads at 9 and 3 o'clock, it gave an overall more balanced sound for me.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> Curious what is it or what parameter am I looking for, that makes a speaker amp sound better?



For me, the presentation sounded flat in comparison. I don’t mean flat as in boring, I mean there was so much more dimension.

With that said, it also depends on the amp.


----------



## Roasty

ken6217 said:


> For me, the presentation sounded flat in comparison. I don’t mean flat as in boring, I mean there was so much more dimension.
> 
> With that said, it also depends on the amp.



Oh I meant, what parameter of the amp am I looking for? 

Eg I have a Benchmark hpa4, and say I wanted to get a speaker amp, how would I go about choosing the amp? 
Based on wattage etc?
For eg amp A and amp B may have same wattage, but cost vastly different. 
Or is there some other parameter I should be looking out for?


----------



## ken6217

matthewhypolite said:


> If you adjust the width of the headphone correctly, and potentially implement a mod i've posted earlier, you'll never really have to do this.
> Every-time i put the headphone on my head now they sit perfectly center with zero effort.
> 
> Having a curve in the headband conforms to the shape of your head and it just naturally centers.
> ...



The natural curve is a great idea as opposed to the balancing act on the head. So does it stay curved as in the picture without your hand on it?


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> Curious what is it or what parameter am I looking for, that makes a speaker amp sound better?



That I can’t answer for sure except driving the headphones with more power is good. You won’t get as much out of a headphone or speaker with under powering it. 

I ended up with the amp I have from seeing other people in this thread with it.


----------



## matthewhypolite

ken6217 said:


> The natural curve is a great idea as opposed to the balancing act on the head. So does it stay curved as in the picture without your hand on it?



I'll take another photo shortly with my hand not on it, but no, the curve is created when the headphone sits.


----------



## Roasty

ken6217 said:


> That I can’t answer for sure except driving the headphones with more power is good. You won’t get as much out of a headphone or speaker with under powering it.
> 
> I ended up with the amp I have from seeing other people in this thread with it.



Ah.. yes I do remember seeing some people saying they had the sim audio amp too. I had a look at the price and it is quite an investment. no worries, just curious, because if I did go down that route, there then comes another huge selection and variety of speaker amps to choose from and read up about and ask questions on... 
I ended up ordering a GSX mini to try out with the Abyss as I've read it has a warmish sound signature.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> Ah.. yes I do remember seeing some people saying they had the sim audio amp too. I had a look at the price and it is quite an investment. no worries, just curious, because if I did go down that route, there then comes another huge selection and variety of speaker amps to choose from and read up about and ask questions on...
> I ended up ordering a GSX mini to try out with the Abyss as I've read it has a warmish sound signature.



You can find the V1 for around 4K


----------



## jlbrach

the formula s/powerman is the way to go...it was designed with the TC in mind..sounds great


----------



## Bonddam

Marco_tam said:


> So after the replacement, the bass on both sides still remains unequal?


I am not having the issue as much. The headphones bass is so ridiculous that I get a great center but then I get a lot of bass notes coming out the right side. But it is better hopefully with break in they will loosen up on the left side produce more excursion. I'm comparing the bass between my 1266 and Final audio D8000 pro edition to see how well balanced the 1266 is. The d8000 pro edition has better bass then LCD 4 and not too far behind the 1266.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Bonddam said:


> I am not having the issue as much. The headphones bass is so ridiculous that I get a great center but then I get a lot of bass notes coming out the right side. But it is better hopefully with break in they will loosen up on the left side produce more excursion. I'm comparing the bass between my 1266 and Final audio D8000 pro edition to see how well balanced the 1266 is. The d8000 pro edition has better bass then LCD 4 and not too far behind the 1266.


Don’t take this the wrong way, I’m just brainstorming, but is there a chance you may have some hearing damage in one ear, and that’s what is causing the issue?


----------



## Bonddam

Ciggavelli said:


> Don’t take this the wrong way, I’m just brainstorming, but is there a chance you may have some hearing damage in one ear, and that’s what is causing the issue?


I could have damage too my hearing, but I'm not experiencing with my other headphones. I think I've gotten the bass as equal as possible.


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> Don’t take this the wrong way, I’m just brainstorming, but is there a chance you may have some hearing damage in one ear, and that’s what is causing the issue?



Nah. I can see this as an adjustment issue. I had the same in the left side. I think (and I could be wrong) that if you have to play with the adjustment so that the space between the ear pads and your face is even on both sides.


----------



## matthewhypolite

ken6217 said:


> The natural curve is a great idea as opposed to the balancing act on the head. So does it stay curved as in the picture without your hand on it?


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> Nah. I can see this as an adjustment issue. I had the same in the left side. I think (and I could be wrong) that if you have to play with the adjustment so that the space between the ear pads and your face is even on both sides.


I was thinking about that, when you rotate the headphones outward or inward, it automatically adjusts both at the same time (at least with my fit).  I do have a big head, so maybe that’s why it fits like that with me then.


----------



## ken6217

matthewhypolite said:


>



Interesting. How the eff did you think of that? 

So you bought two headbands? How did you try it on and do the adjustments, and at the same time do the adjustments with the wire ties?


----------



## matthewhypolite (Jan 6, 2020)

ken6217 said:


> Interesting. How the eff did you think of that?
> 
> So you bought two headbands? How did you try it on and do the adjustments, and at the same time do the adjustments with the wire ties?



That was not the first version of the mod lol, I tried a few things some of which I see recently mentioned. Spinning the headband around to grt more tension, adding a foam peice below to get more height, wrapping another larger headband around the existing one lol, and whiles talking with others in this thread I got the idea to do what I did albeit with just the 1 headband. But the issue with that was when I held the headphone, the headband would just drop in as it had nothing to keep it up, that's when u got the idea for the 2nd headband and to link it in that way.

The adjustments are very easy to make. Those are your standard wire straps. So I put them all together as shown, but very loose, then put the headphone on my head, and just slowly pulled each strap 1 notch at a time, and dialed in what felt comfortable, and sounded the best. I had a small flat head screw driver on hand to release the strap if I pulled it too tight. Once I got what worked for me, I nipped the ends of the straps. Done.

Ive seem someone do the same mod but used velcro instead so he could easily chnage the fit if he so chooses. But nobody wears my abyss but me, so I'm fine with a static fit. But if u want it dymanic, some thin strip of velcro will work just fine as well.

If you're really interested I guess i can make a video over the weakend with each step.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Bonddam said:


> I could have damage too my hearing, but I'm not experiencing with my other headphones. I think I've gotten the bass as equal as possible.


Yeah, I brought it up because when I had Utopias my left side was always more quiet than the right side. It drove me crazy. I had other people listen and they said both sides sounded the same in volume. Somebody suggested that it could be hearing loss. I do get tinnitus pretty bad, so it’s a possibility. I haven’t gotten my ears tested, but luckily I am not experiencing the same imbalance with my TCs and Susvaras.

So, any way, I can relate to these imbalance issues. Glad to hear that they are going away for you


----------



## ken6217

matthewhypolite said:


> That was not the first version of the mod lol, I tried a few things some of which I see recently mentioned. Spinning the headband around to grt more tension, adding a foam peice below to get more height, wrapping another larger headband around the existing one lol, and whiles talking with others in this thread I got the idea to do what I did albeit with just the 1 headband. But the issue with that was when I held the headphone, the headband would just drop in as it had nothing to keep it up, that's when u got the idea for the 2nd headband and to link it in that way.
> 
> The adjustments are very easy to make. Those are your standard wire straps. So I put them all together as shown, but very loose, then put the headphone on my head, and just slowly pulled each strap 1 notch at a time, and dialed in what felt comfortable, and sounded the best. I had a small flat head screw driver on hand to release the strap if I pulled it too tight. Once I got what worked for me, I nipped the ends of the straps. Done.
> 
> ...



I guess even with the velcro, you still need the wire ties to attach the headband to the frame. I think the other wire ties are probably easier to adjust than velcro, except for the loosening. I dont see how you can loosen wore ties. It's a one way adjustment.


----------



## matthewhypolite

The straps are Def easier to adjsut than velcro, and u can easily loosen wire straps with a tiny flat head screwdriver , just pop the tip of the screw driver under the notch and the strap pulls freely right back.


----------



## tholt (Jan 6, 2020)

I gotta give props to @matthewhypolite , I tried his adjustments and they did make a nice difference on my Phi CC. Before, I had the pads at 3 and 9 as well, but had the frame extended out all the way with no toe in. While the soundstage was immense, the bass was bloated and distorted at times, and everything else sounded a bit thin and diffuse. Seems the key is to bring the frame in slightly and and toe in as he pictured. You get impactful bass, but also full sound up the spectrum -- nice! I think the only minor downside is a slight shrinking of the soundstage due to bringing the frame in. I guess even with the Abyss, there are compromises. But so far just a few songs in, I like what I'm hearing. It's about as full as I've heard.


----------



## tholt

Roasty said:


> I also don't like it if the abyss sits too low; the earpads press on the top of my ears. Solved it by rotating the stock headband twice so the rubber bands become more taut, and then placing into my head. Works a treat!



Also had an issue of earpads too low. I guess I have a smaller head (half Filipino . Looping the headstrap bands up and around the metal pieces as they're intended to resulted in the earpads too far down. My solution was to not loop the bands over, but instead just tuck them in the undersides of the metal pieces. This actually worked as-is for a while, but eventually the bands would work themselves out and the headphones would come crashing down on my head. I found a way to secure the bands with strong wire ties as shown. Pretty easy solution and works great for me. Earpads are even with my ears.


----------



## NZtechfreak (Jan 7, 2020)

I still have a lot to digest here, but wow. I feel like my head size is kinda perfect for these, didn't seem to take long to dial in fit/position at all (10 o'clock on pads, slightly forward tilt on headband). Will keep fugging around with fit and see how the sound changes.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

Bonddam said:


> I am not having the issue as much. The headphones bass is so ridiculous that I get a great center but then I get a lot of bass notes coming out the right side. But it is better hopefully with break in they will loosen up on the left side produce more excursion. I'm comparing the bass between my 1266 and Final audio D8000 pro edition to see how well balanced the 1266 is. The d8000 pro edition has better bass then LCD 4 and not too far behind the 1266.


I’m using the d8000 pro with the an upgraded Milo and I don’t think it has much bass. The lcd4 is coming in Thursday and the TT2 dac/amp for review on Monday. I’ll see if things change by then.


----------



## nyceg

Hi everyone!  

I'm looking for .5m length RCA cables to connect the Chord Qutest to the Wells Headtrip II.  Since this is my first "serious" setup, my knowledge of cables is seriously lacking.  I realize that good cables aren't cheap and that maybe the Abyss 1266 TCs will be able to pick up on the differences between them, however I also don't want to be taken for a ride.  I made a short list of manufacturers that have received favorable reviews for you to yay or nay, but of course I'd be open to any and all other recommendations:

Chord Company
QED
Atlas
Audioquest
Nordost
Cardas
Oyaide
Zavfino

It would be ideal if I could get in around $250.  If there's someone who really knows cables, I also need to find a digital cable that terminates on one end to USB C (for my MacBook) and on the other end to USB B (for the Qutest).  In case the copper vs. silver debate steers us off topic, or if you don't want to stick your neck (and cables) on the line by speaking "your" truth, please PM me...many thanks!


----------



## ken6217

Call Cool the cablecompany.com. They are super knowledgeable and have a lending library of tons of cables. Try a few out and see what sounds best for you. There is nothing better than trying for yourself then getting someone else’s opinion based on their own system and they’re likes and dislikes. It’s also good idea to buy used. You get more value.


----------



## Bonddam

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> I’m using the d8000 pro with the an upgraded Milo and I don’t think it has much bass. The lcd4 is coming in Thursday and the TT2 dac/amp for review on Monday. I’ll see if things change by then.


I’m returning the lcd 4 because it lacks the bass I look for that’s why I like the D8000. But the 1266 is the best imo.


----------



## commtrd

So to clarify, the bass on LCD4 is "lacking" with the listed amps, including GSX Mini (which I also own) compared to Phi TC or even D8000? Wow. I always considered the bass region performance of the LCD line to be the strong suit relatively speaking. 

I could surmise the 1266TC may be technically superior to my 4z, fair enough, just interesting to hear someone opine that the bass on LCD4 was insufficient. Different horses for courses...


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

Bonddam said:


> I’m returning the lcd 4 because it lacks the bass I look for that’s why I like the D8000. But the 1266 is the best imo.


I thought the original D8000 had more bass than the pro version.


----------



## Bonddam

The bass is good on lcd 4 for audiophile not bass head.
Never tried the regular d8000.


----------



## Ciggavelli

nyceg said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I'm looking for .5m length RCA cables to connect the Chord Qutest to the Wells Headtrip II.  Since this is my first "serious" setup, my knowledge of cables is seriously lacking.  I realize that good cables aren't cheap and that maybe the Abyss 1266 TCs will be able to pick up on the differences between them, however I also don't want to be taken for a ride.  I made a short list of manufacturers that have received favorable reviews for you to yay or nay, but of course I'd be open to any and all other recommendations:
> 
> ...



I have used the Cable Co in the past too. They are a good company.

In terms of inexpensive cables I’ve used in the past, and that are on your list, I have used Chord and Audioquest cables. The Chord cables are vastly superior to the audioquest ones. Chord also has a ton of different price levels. The only issue is that the cables are really only sold in Europe. The Cable Co sells them, but you have to wait like 2 or 3 weeks to get your cables when they are out of stock (which happened to me twice)


----------



## NZtechfreak

Sitting here at work now I can confirm it is a mistake to setup your brand new Abyss TC for your first listen at 11:45pm. I think I managed to drag myself away from them at about 2am, and even then I did not feel tired and was extremely reluctant to stop listening. Most lifelike drums I have heard from headphones, the soundstage noticeable coming from Utopias, impressed with how at ease they sounded - not congested or strained sounding during complex passages. Wonderful. Another five hours to suffer at work until I can listen again.


----------



## ray-dude

nyceg said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I'm looking for .5m length RCA cables to connect the Chord Qutest to the Wells Headtrip II.  Since this is my first "serious" setup, my knowledge of cables is seriously lacking.  I realize that good cables aren't cheap and that maybe the Abyss 1266 TCs will be able to pick up on the differences between them, however I also don't want to be taken for a ride.  I made a short list of manufacturers that have received favorable reviews for you to yay or nay, but of course I'd be open to any and all other recommendations:
> 
> ...



I highly recommend you add the Iconoclast cables to your audition list: https://www.iconoclastcable.com

Galen (the cable designer) has a design philosophy that is VERY well aligned to what Rob Watts tries to do with his DACs: big big focus on phase and transient timing.  For Chord DACs, I think the Iconoclast cables (whether interconnects or speaker cables) are a match made in heaven.

There is the added benefit that they have a free try at home policy.  Get the cables, try them out, and see what has the best synergy with your amp (I'm extremely confident the synergy is already there with your Chord Qutest DAC).  If your budget will allow, the OCC cables are remarkable (but alas very spendy).  They are very stiff, so you'll need some room if you need them to bend between your components. 

At the low end, the BAV cables have a great reputation, but I haven't heard them personally.  They also have the benefit of being more flexible.


----------



## ken6217

NZtechfreak said:


> Sitting here at work now I can confirm it is a mistake to setup your brand new Abyss TC for your first listen at 11:45pm. I think I managed to drag myself away from them at about 2am, and even then I did not feel tired and was extremely reluctant to stop listening. Most lifelike drums I have heard from headphones, the soundstage noticeable coming from Utopias, impressed with how at ease they sounded - not congested or strained sounding during complex passages. Wonderful. Another five hours to suffer at work until I can listen again.



I 100% agree about the drums.


----------



## CreditingKarma

ken6217 said:


> I 100% agree about the drums.




If you are looking for great drum track I would suggest Two for One from the first Vital Tech Tones album. Victor Wooten and Steve Smith it is incredible. The whole is great Scott Henderaon on guitar too. It is available on Tidal.


----------



## NZtechfreak

CreditingKarma said:


> If you are looking for great drum track I would suggest Two for One from the first Vital Tech Tones album. Victor Wooten and Steve Smith it is incredible. The whole is great Scott Henderaon on guitar too. It is available on Tidal.



Will definitely check it out, anyone who plays with Victor Wooten must be awesome.


----------



## ken6217

CreditingKarma said:


> If you are looking for great drum track I would suggest Two for One from the first Vital Tech Tones album. Victor Wooten and Steve Smith it is incredible. The whole is great Scott Henderaon on guitar too. It is available on Tidal.



You ain't kidding. Just searched and listening right now.


----------



## mulder01

commtrd said:


> So to clarify, the bass on LCD4 is "lacking" with the listed amps, including GSX Mini (which I also own) compared to Phi TC or even D8000? Wow. I always considered the bass region performance of the LCD line to be the strong suit relatively speaking.
> 
> I could surmise the 1266TC may be technically superior to my 4z, fair enough, just interesting to hear someone opine that the bass on LCD4 was insufficient. Different horses for courses...


I had the opportunity to do a bit of a shootout between 1266 and LCD4, and the area I thought they were both excellent in was the bass.  And I am a basshead.  I didn't really like much else about the LCD4 over 1266 though.


----------



## NZtechfreak

I tried the LCD-4 at release (before they changed the impedance), can't speak for whether I was hearing one of the fabled 'golden' samples or whether was representative of the majority, but I thought the bass was extremely good. Not as good as the Abyss for bass for my tastes, but hanging in similar territory (but only for bass, pretty much everywhere else I prefer the Abyss).


----------



## Bonddam

I added a stick on head band to the underside of the stock one and it has given me perfect fit.


----------



## Bonddam

mulder01 said:


> I had the opportunity to do a bit of a shootout between 1266 and LCD4, and the area I thought they were both excellent in was the bass.  And I am a basshead.  I didn't really like much else about the LCD4 over 1266 though.


Ive got the lcd 4 and I'm on the opposite side with the lcd 4 having equal bass. I know there is variations with the 4. Maybe my unit needs a lot of break in, but I find the bass on the 1266 not touchable by any of my headphones.


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> I added a stick on head band to the underside of the stock one and it has given me perfect fit.



What is that in English?


----------



## Bonddam

ken6217 said:


> What is that in English?


haha


----------



## ken6217

I was being serious. What did you mean about adding a stick?


----------



## Bonddam

ken6217 said:


> I was being serious. What did you mean about adding a stick?


I got a stick on headband off Amazon that attaches to the underside of a worn out headband. I'll take a picture of it when my kid gives me back my phone.


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> I was being serious. What did you mean about adding a stick?


 He meant stick-on


----------



## matthewhypolite

tholt said:


> He meant stick-on


This makes so much more sense now, I was picturing a literal stick rofl


----------



## ken6217

matthewhypolite said:


> This makes so much more sense now, I was picturing a literal stick rofl



Well, we don't know the answer yet. He and I are both from Jersey and a stick is a stick and a sticker is a sticker. So let's see.


----------



## matthewhypolite

ken6217 said:


> Well, we don't know the answer yet. He and I are both from Jersey and a stick is a stick and a sticker is a sticker. So let's see.


Rofl


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> Well, we don't know the answer yet. He and I are both from Jersey and a stick is a stick and a sticker is a sticker. So let's see.


 If he actually meant a stick, then I would _love_ to see that photo


----------



## ken6217

I don't think a stick either, but I'm trying to figure the sticker. If it's on the headband, you can't see it without a mirror. Maybe the sticker goes on top of his head and then he places the headphone on top.


----------



## matthewhypolite

ken6217 said:


> I don't think a stick either, but I'm trying to figure the sticker. If it's on the headband, you can't see it without a mirror. Maybe the sticker goes on top of his head and then he places the headphone on top.


Guy you need to stop I just ate, rofl!!!


----------



## Bonddam

Well this sucks for me.lol


----------



## Bonddam

I ended up ordering a new 1266 from online retailer. So by doing so has proven my first set of 1266 was defective. The bass is equal on both sides. Now I'm hoping Abyss takes care of me and not sweep the dirt under the rug.


----------



## Bonddam (Jan 9, 2020)

This is the device I used to get a perfect fit, no more ears touching the pads. This was recommended by another headfir.


----------



## mat.1

Bonddam said:


> This is the device I used to get a perfect fit, no more ears touching the pads. This was recommended by another headfir.


What is The Sound from Headamp GSX mini VS Hugo TT2 oN Abyss ?


----------



## Bonddam (Jan 9, 2020)

So its a little warm more neutral, but great bass. Mids and highs blend in nicely. The bass doesn't bleed into the mids, not sibilant at all. Imaging and sound stage is perfect for me. It's also good combo when it comes to dynamics of micro and macro. I could sell my other headphones and be happy with just the 1266 but I collect so if I sell off stock it's to fund another TOTL. I do have a Formula S with Powerman and a GS-X MK2 on the way. I don't care for the amp in the Hugo tt2. Someone on the tt2 forum mentioned its not a true amp it is more a DAC. The tt2 by itself is sterile.


----------



## elan120

Bonddam said:


> I do have a Formula S with Powerman and a GS-X MK2 on the way.


Looking forward to your impressions between these two.


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> I ended up ordering a new 1266 from online retailer. So by doing so has proven my first set of 1266 was defective. The bass is equal on both sides. Now I'm hoping Abyss takes care of me and not sweep the dirt under the rug.



Is this your third or second pair?


----------



## Bonddam

ken6217 said:


> Is this your third or second pair?


This is my third pair( if they even changed the drivers or just re-wrapped and sent it back saying it's all good) but the third was purchased off Headamp. I thought there was a problem with my hearing. I don't care that I had to purchase from someone else, I just love the headphone so much. I wrote to Abyss on the matter. 
When I sent in the first set of 1266 they didn't even listen to it. They shipped on a Thursday and returned on Saturday( not enough time to hear the problem). All that matters is they refund me my money and let me live with the working set.


----------



## Bonddam

So I'd like the group to know I love Abyss didn't want to come across as a smear.


----------



## ken6217

I’m sure everyone understands. It’s not just a hobby, it’s a passion. 

I actually had sent mine back after I received mine as I felt the bass was too boomy the left side as well. This was in December. They listened to them for a few days and said they were fine. 

I don’t really hear it as much anymore, but I’m not 100% certain. The reason why I say that is because that even tiny adjustments changes the sound. That’s why I’m interested in the mods. 

Once I get that done I’ll listen again and see if I feel the same way. 

Glad your happy now though.


----------



## Bonddam

I am super happy.


----------



## Bonddam

I don't consider these headphones require any modification, they sound amazing out of the box.


----------



## ray-dude

Bonddam said:


> This is the device I used to get a perfect fit, no more ears touching the pads. This was recommended by another headfir.



Do you have a link to Amazon?  I think something like this could help me...


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> I don't consider these headphones require any modification, they sound amazing out of the box.



manage your definition of a mod? You said you put that pad on the headband. My idea of a mod for these headphones are for fit.


----------



## Bonddam

The Link
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YIJGS6E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


ray-dude said:


> Do you have a link to Amazon?  I think something like this could help me...


----------



## Bonddam

Bonddam said:


> The Link
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YIJGS6E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YIJGS6E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Just to note you may have to stretch out the stock band a little so it doesn't touch your ears like I did. The fit is perfect no hot spot either.


----------



## ahossam

matthewhypolite said:


> Here's my config, this gives the best balance of evrything for me :



Wow! this config is really works wonderfully, I have tried many different ways but this config really works for me, @matthewhypolite thank you for this


----------



## tholt

Bonddam said:


> This is the device I used to get a perfect fit, no more ears touching the pads. This was recommended by another headfir.



I also tried that way for a time. It's definitely a cheap fix. However over time, I found it wasn't as comfortable over long sessions as just the headband itself (prob due to the wider headband covering more surface area). My headband "mod" (not really much of a mod, but not really intended to be done this way either) in post 9866 worked better, at least for me. Whatever works to get those earcups centered!


----------



## Bonddam

I spoke with Joe from Abyss. He educated me with good fitting techniques. It was a pleasure to talk to him. One thing I did because I'm a bass head was rotate the headband forwards towards my forehead this did amazing shift in bass and imaging. Besides that it was nice to call and get the owner on the phone, it says a lot about them being the right company to do business with.


----------



## Bonddam

tholt said:


> I also tried that way for a time. It's definitely a cheap fix. However over time, I found it wasn't as comfortable over long sessions as just the headband itself (prob due to the wider headband covering more surface area). My headband "mod" (not really much of a mod, but not really intended to be done this way either) in post 9866 worked better, at least for me. Whatever works to get those earcups centered!


I get point pressure for me the additional headband has gotten rid of the sensation so your mod works for me. The problem I have is the headphone sits too low.


----------



## tholt

Bonddam said:


> I get point pressure for me the additional headband has gotten rid of the sensation so your mod works for me. The problem I have is the headphone sits too low.


 Exactly my issue as well. So in my case, lowering the headband effectively raises the headphones, and now the earcups are centered.


----------



## mulder01

ray-dude said:


> Do you have a link to Amazon?  I think something like this could help me...


Just do a search for "stick"


----------



## Bonddam

mulder01 said:


> Just do a search for "stick"


lol
Is it porno star?


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> lol
> Is it porno star?



Only if you do a search for Big Stick. Then you’ll see my picture.


----------



## Bonddam

lol


----------



## Roasty

Bonddam said:


> I ended up ordering a new 1266 from online retailer. So by doing so has proven my first set of 1266 was defective. The bass is equal on both sides. Now I'm hoping Abyss takes care of me and not sweep the dirt under the rug.



Glad u managed to get to the root of the problem. Must have been driving u nuts trying to figure out the bass issue. Hope the outcome is favourable and Abyss does good on it!


----------



## Roasty

For the first time it sounds like I got everything dialed in right with the 1266, thanks to a lot of helpful posts in this thread! 

Hqplayer upsampling to DSD 256, poly-sinc-xtr-mp-2s, dsd-256+fs
USB to x-sabre pro
Woo Audio 22 + we421a + tungsol 6sn7 bad boys + we422a
Roon and eq 450hz +1.2db, 2khz - 1db

Decided the tungsol bad boys were a better match sounding more balanced, as the ecc35 drivers made everything a bit too forward and skewed to treble. 

1266 pads at 10 and 2 o'clock with slight toe in. Sounds amaze balls to me right now.

Have some other goodies in the mail which I am looking forward to trying out; holo spring 2 wildism edition, singxer su-6, i2s cable, and gsx mini. Also ordered an EtherRegen from uptone audio just out of curiosity..


----------



## CreditingKarma

Does anyone know a way to touch up a scratch on the TC. The finish I stronger than the original but is still pretty susceptible to scratches. Mine brushed up against the wall while I was trying to connect something in my rack and some of the finish on the edge rubbed off.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> For the first time it sounds like I got everything dialed in right with the 1266, thanks to a lot of helpful posts in this thread!
> 
> Hqplayer upsampling to DSD 256, poly-sinc-xtr-mp-2s, dsd-256+fs
> USB to x-sabre pro
> ...



The EtherRegen will make a big difference, but if you don't have a linear power supply it won't sound as good as it can. Big difference.


----------



## CreditingKarma

I decided to remove my abyss from the for sale section. They are just too good. Other system upgrades will need to wait.


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> For the first time it sounds like I got everything dialed in right with the 1266, thanks to a lot of helpful posts in this thread!
> 
> Hqplayer upsampling to DSD 256, poly-sinc-xtr-mp-2s, dsd-256+fs
> USB to x-sabre pro
> ...



you mean tungsol BGRP or Syl 6sn7 bad boys?


----------



## attmci

CreditingKarma said:


> Does anyone know a way to touch up a scratch on the TC. The finish I stronger than the original but is still pretty susceptible to scratches. Mine brushed up against the wall while I was trying to connect something in my rack and some of the finish on the edge rubbed off.


I will just ignore. Who cares.


----------



## Roasty

attmci said:


> you mean tungsol BGRP or Syl 6sn7 bad boys?



I bought them as Syl 6sn7gt bad boys but they have tung-sol on the base. 3 hole plate.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> I bought them as Syl 6sn7gt bad boys but they have tung-sol on the base. 3 hole plate.



I googled it after you posted it. I see there is such a tube. Usually Sylvania is associated with Bad Boy.

If you ever can get your hands on Tung Sol Round Plate Black Glass you're in for a treat. You're wallet won't.


----------



## ken6217

CreditingKarma said:


> Does anyone know a way to touch up a scratch on the TC. The finish I stronger than the original but is still pretty susceptible to scratches. Mine brushed up against the wall while I was trying to connect something in my rack and some of the finish on the edge rubbed off.



Contact Joe and see if he can give you a little of of the black he uses and touch up with a nail polish brush. 

I don't know how it will blend in and how noticeable it will be.


----------



## CreditingKarma

ken6217 said:


> Contact Joe and see if he can give you a little of of the black he uses and touch up with a nail polish brush.
> 
> I don't know how it will blend in and how noticeable it will be.




I had reached out to him about this before for a pair that I was thinking about buying before I bought my pair new. He said that the only way to repair the finish was to replace the part or send it in to get refinished. I will just live with it I am just a bit anal about this small things like that.


----------



## Roasty

ken6217 said:


> The EtherRegen will make a big difference, but if you don't have a linear power supply it won't sound as good as it can. Big difference.



Oh goodie more ways to spend money! 
Which LPS did you pair yours with?


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> Oh goodie more ways to spend money!
> Which LPS did you pair yours with?



Uptone sells one. UltraCap LPS. It's about $400.00. 

I have a Keces P8. You can two different components off of it. It's $700. They have a smaller version about the same price as the Uptone. 

Honestly, any LPS is much better than the wall wart that any component requiring a DC power supply comes with.


----------



## Roasty

ken6217 said:


> I googled it after you posted it. I see there is such a tube. Usually Sylvania is associated with Bad Boy.
> 
> If you ever can get your hands on Tung Sol Round Plate Black Glass you're in for a treat. You're wallet won't.



Are these the tubes 
 you're referring to? 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/283727672924


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> Are these the tubes
> you're referring to?
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/283727672924



Yep. That's a very high price for them. They should be in the $400 - $450 range. Also they don't say if they have been tested and how strong they are. 

A couple of years ago they were less than half that price.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> The EtherRegen will make a big difference, but if you don't have a linear power supply it won't sound as good as it can. Big difference.


I thought for the EtherREGEN you didn't need a linear power supply.  I'm considering buying the EtherREGEN, so I'll make sure to buy another LPS from them as well.  Thanks for the info


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> I thought for the EtherREGEN you didn't need a linear power supply.  I'm considering buying the EtherREGEN, so I'll make sure to buy another LPS from them as well.  Thanks for the info



it doesn’t “need” one. It’s just better with one. When you look at the back you will see it takes a 12v DC wall wart power cable. Plug the LPS there instead.


----------



## lithiumnk (Jan 10, 2020)

I have farad super3 for etherregen(ER) feeding modded metrum ambre (pi4b4gb & audiolinux)/Pavane. I wish I could try abyss TC on my system.I had tried susvara & phi cc a year back & preferred former (not on my system tho).
Edit: A dedicated LPS & ER has improved my system to unbelievable levels. Now, a TOTL flagship is required.


----------



## elan120

lithiumnk said:


> I have farad super3 for etherregen(ER)



Have you try compare Farad Super3 with stock PS or other LPS?  If you have, is it possible to share your impressions?


----------



## lithiumnk

elan120 said:


> Have you try compare Farad Super3 with stock PS or other LPS?  If you have, is it possible to share your impressions?


Hello
Plz check your PM as this is not the right place to discuss LPS/ER. 
Thanks


----------



## Ciggavelli

(for some reason the quote function is not working)

For the etherREGEN, what cables are you all using on both sides?  The SOtM Cat 7 filtered ones on both sides?  Supra Cat8 on one side and the SOtM on the other?  Different cables?


----------



## ken6217

For me, I’m using SOtM Cat 7 filtered from the switch and a Synergistic Research into the switch. 

I did receive yesterday a Shunyata sigma ethernet cable I’m going to try that in place of the SOTM.


----------



## ray-dude

I ended up with the Cable Matters CAT8 cables (see survey results below).  To keep this on topic, part of the listening tests were done with my new Abyss TC's 

I suggest EtherRegen discussions (cables and power supplies) go to the linked forum below

[URL]https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/57686-the-etherregen-thread-for-various-cable-and-power-experiences-and-experiments/?do=findComment&comment=1011192
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/57686-the-etherregen-thread-for-various-cable-and-power-experiences-and-experiments/?do=findComment&comment=1011228[/URL]
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...eriments/page/5/?tab=comments#comment-1013858


----------



## ken6217

Try pulling the power plug on your router and the switch, and then turn the power on the router, and then once that connects power on the switch. See if that work


----------



## ken6217

But like anything else, it’s all subjective. One person may think one cable sounds better than the other, and someone else will probably have the exact opposite opinion. None of them are bad. Just different. Someone may like something very detailed, and another other person might say it’s bright and not musical and vice versa.


----------



## Jon L

Adding another data point for Abyss 1266 Phi TC amplification.  
Minerva Audio ICE 1200AS2 based amp sounds extremely good powering the Abyss.  At 620 watts/8 Ohms, these class D amps have power for days and sounds it on the Abyss.  Some may fear class D and Abyss detail may not mix, but these recent generation class D amps are extremely smooth AND extremely detailed at the same time.  Glorious.




0110201606 by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## Marco_tam

CreditingKarma said:


> Does anyone know a way to touch up a scratch on the TC. The finish I stronger than the original but is still pretty susceptible to scratches. Mine brushed up against the wall while I was trying to connect something in my rack and some of the finish on the edge rubbed off.



Besides the finish, I find the 'metal traces' of the drivers also need equal attention. The other day I was playing with the ear pads, and found there's a dent on the traces that did not exist before. I do not remember coming near that area ever and it's still a mystery to me how it happened.
Don't know if it's only for dust protection but it surely fragile as heck.


----------



## CreditingKarma

If anyone is looking for one I have put my AB-1266 TC up for sale in the classifieds. I know I just took it down but I went and auditioned a DCS Bartok today and fell in love with it. So somethings must go to fund this venture.


----------



## Shini44

Looking into Joining Abyess's Club Guys  can you guide me and teach me about Abyess Phi TC? 

i have owned Utopia and Susvara before, i would say their Treble was a dissapointment for me, i love sparkly Treble. 

i used to have HE-6 with speaker amp, not the best mids, but the bass and treble was to die for. yet again the mids were a joke lol

i own DAVE (wasnt my cup of tea) i loved Hugo over it, because i listen to J-pop EDM Electronic. with J-pop i need good mids/vocal ofc, so i went utopia, bass and treble left me wanting more. so i went susvara, which kind of felt bland/plain 

i stopped for a year, now thinking of Hugo TT 2 + M-Scaler (should be top tier setup) and maybe an amp? if i decided to go with Abyess Phi TC. 

rn i have TH900, with whatever dac/amp

if i will go back and spend 25-35k USD, i hope Phi TC will be worth it.

can you compare the Treble Sparkle of Abyess Phi TC with Susvara and Utopia (which again were a joke level, i am being honest)

i love bright and sparkling treble, at least Treble should be extended to the max in some totl headphones, which isn't the case sadly. 

btw i live faraway so going to shop and testing will require me to fly lol.


----------



## Delacaff

Shini44 said:


> Looking into Joining Abyess's Club Guys  can you guide me and teach me about Abyess Phi TC?
> 
> can you compare the Treble Sparkle of Abyess Phi TC with Susvara and Utopia (which again were a joke level, i am being honest)
> 
> ...



Hi Shini. I have listen to the Susvara and can compare it to the TC which I own. The Susvara treble are sweet and elegant. The TC treble are more sort of raw, or what you call sparkling treble.


----------



## Sage Encore

Jon L said:


> Adding another data point for Abyss 1266 Phi TC amplification.
> Minerva Audio ICE 1200AS2 based amp sounds extremely good powering the Abyss.  At 620 watts/8 Ohms, these class D amps have power for days and sounds it on the Abyss.  Some may fear class D and Abyss detail may not mix, but these recent generation class D amps are extremely smooth AND extremely detailed at the same time.  Glorious.
> 
> 
> ...


I'm using a SPEC amp RSA-V1 EX with my CC. It's just brilliant. Love it and its Class D as well with a nive tube sound to it.


----------



## ken6217 (Jan 11, 2020)

ken6217 said:


> But like anything else, it’s all subjective. One person may think one cable sounds better than the other, and someone else will probably have the exact opposite opinion. None of them are bad. Just different. Someone may like something very detailed, and another other person might say it’s bright and not musical and vice versa.





CreditingKarma said:


> If anyone is looking for one I have put my AB-1266 TC up for sale in the classifieds. I know I just took it down but I went and auditioned a DCS Bartok today and fell in love with it. So somethings must go to fund this venture.



Well you should be able to sell your DAC as well to help fund the purchase as the Ring DAC in the Bartok will be better than what you currently have.

Btw the way, weren’t you just going to buy the re-clocker? You’re in a freefall. I see a12 step program in your future. LOL


----------



## simorag

For those interested to check how clean and deep is the sub bass of their Abyss (or any other hp for that matter) Why So Serious? by Hans Zimmer is a great track.

Played loud it will also assess the control your amplifier has over the AB 1266 drivers (wait until about 3:25)


----------



## gregalex

Which is better the cc or the TC model


----------



## matthewhypolite

gregalex said:


> Which is better the cc or the TC model


Both are great, and depends on what you like, but the TC imo is better. (see my TOTL Comparison for more details on why I chose tc)


----------



## gregalex

I’m going to use it with the wells Milo amp and I listen to contemporary jazz. guitar bass piano Do you think I would need the cc pads to order if I go with the TC or leave it alone as it is


----------



## matthewhypolite

gregalex said:


> I’m going to use it with the wells Milo amp and I listen to contemporary jazz. guitar bass piano Do you think I would need the cc pads to order if I go with the TC or leave it alone as it is


The TC already comes with the latest pads


----------



## Shini44

is Xi Audio Formula S a good SS Amp for AB TC? or not enough power?


----------



## Delacaff

Shini44 said:


> is Xi Audio Formula S a good SS Amp for AB TC? or not enough power?



The Formula S was engineered by Michael Xi and Joe Skubinski to amp the Abyss first. It has low/high gain positions. High gain is for the Abyss and other headphones with low impedance such as the Hifiman Susvara. Beside power, the sound signature of the Formula S is... none. It conveys speed, transparency, high bandwidth and a large room to match the Abyss abilities. Completing the Formula S with the Powerman power supply lowers the noise floor and enhance sound separation. These are my experience of the XI Audio combo that I own. You can easily find reviews on the Formula S (+Powerman)


----------



## Bonddam

I can't wai for the Formula s and Powerman to arrive.


----------



## The Piper

Shini44 said:


> Looking into Joining Abyess's Club Guys  can you guide me and teach me about Abyess Phi TC?
> 
> i have owned Utopia and Susvara before, i would say their Treble was a dissapointment for me, i love sparkly Treble.
> 
> ...


You


Shini44 said:


> is Xi Audio Formula S a good SS Amp for AB TC? or not enough power?


 
You should check into the Headtrip II headphone amp if you are looking for state of the art for the Abyss TC.


----------



## Shini44 (Jan 11, 2020)

The Piper said:


> You should check into the Headtrip II headphone amp if you are looking for state of the art for the Abyss TC.



oh thanks for the recomendation, seems like an end game SS amp for the TC. looking forward to have it.


----------



## mulder01

Shini44 said:


> if i will go back and spend 25-35k USD, i hope Phi TC will be worth it.


Spending lots of money on a system won't guarantee you'll like it more.  As you found out with Dave/ Hugo.  It's more about getting a flavour you like than anything else.


----------



## Alarickc

Shini44 said:


> Looking into Joining Abyess's Club Guys  can you guide me and teach me about Abyess Phi TC?
> 
> i have owned Utopia and Susvara before, i would say their Treble was a dissapointment for me, i love sparkly Treble.
> 
> ...



If you're top priority is top-end sparkle, I think you need to take a slightly different tack than most people are suggesting. I think the 1266 TC is a solid option for you (I'm someone who enjoys the brightness of the LCD-XC), but only if you play to it's treble in the rest of your system. I'd suggest the HeadAmp GS-X MK2 or a similar neutral to bright SS amp with over 5W into a 42 ohm load. There aren't really that many brighter amps at the high-end these days (everyone chasing that tube sound), so it may be hard to do better than the GS-X. 

You seem to already be gravitating towards a brighter DAC, so I'd just focus on finding a brighter amp to pair with it. The 1266 TC's slightly V shaped FR should do the rest (Think HE-6 on steroids. All the good, but better, plus mids that are at least great if not world-beating).


----------



## Litlgi74

Very, very well recorded...


 

https://tidal.com/track/75502314


----------



## tholt

Shini44 said:


> if i will go back and spend 25-35k USD, i hope Phi TC will be worth it.


 I don't know what to recommend necessarily, but for that kind of cheddar it can't be hard to find something. 

Sparkly treble -- Stax 009S and top shelf amp?


----------



## ken6217

tholt said:


> I don't know what to recommend necessarily, but for that kind of cheddar it can't be hard to find something.
> 
> Sparkly treble -- Stax 009S and top shelf amp?



Sparkle treble with no bass.


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> Sparkle treble with no bass.


 He must have said 'sparkly treble' 3 times in his post. Thats what came to mind


----------



## thomaskong78

tholt said:


> I don't know what to recommend necessarily, but for that kind of cheddar it can't be hard to find something.
> 
> Sparkly treble -- Stax 009S and top shelf amp?


I have 009s and Kgsshv Carbon.

But it did not have sparky treble but nuanced one.

I would recommend Rasl Sr1a which sound fast and open.


----------



## tholt

thomaskong78 said:


> I have 009s and Kgsshv Carbon.
> 
> But it did not have sparky treble but nuanced one.
> 
> I would recommend Rasl Sr1a which sound fast and open.


 I would argue some might characterize the 009 treble as 'sparkly'. All that extension and air. To each his own of course.


----------



## llamaluv

thomaskong78 said:


> I would recommend Rasl Sr1a which sound fast and open.



+1. 

The RAAL has the best treble out of anything I've every heard. And (or "but", depending on you POV), it's also bright.


----------



## thomaskong78

tholt said:


> I would argue some might characterize the 009 treble as 'sparkly'. All that extension and air. To each his own of course.


))

009s driven by Carbon does not sound bright.


----------



## NZtechfreak

Could agree with Raal for treble, i enjoyed auditioning that one. Unfortunately sounds wrong with any song with a significant grounding in sub bass. Depending on your musical preferences that could be fine though.


----------



## Shini44

Alarickc said:


> If you're top priority is top-end sparkle, I think you need to take a slightly different tack than most people are suggesting. I think the 1266 TC is a solid option for you (I'm someone who enjoys the brightness of the LCD-XC), but only if you play to it's treble in the rest of your system. I'd suggest the HeadAmp GS-X MK2 or a similar neutral to bright SS amp with over 5W into a 42 ohm load. There aren't really that many brighter amps at the high-end these days (everyone chasing that tube sound), so it may be hard to do better than the GS-X.
> 
> You seem to already be gravitating towards a brighter DAC, so I'd just focus on finding a brighter amp to pair with it. The 1266 TC's slightly V shaped FR should do the rest (Think HE-6 on steroids. All the good, but better, plus mids that are at least great if not world-beating).



i do care about mids and bass ofc, and want overall good experience as well. so i am thinking Headtrip II or Xi Audio Formula S + their power supply. GS-X MK2 is good but i think the previous options are a bigger upgrade across the spectrum. i know i might get good bright Treble but the bass quality and mids will be not as good as end game system sadly and will make me wanting more. 

that being said i can get it as side amp at some time to toy with, and a tube amp too. all mood dependant. thanks for the suggestion ofc.


----------



## cj3209

Litlgi74 said:


> Very, very well recorded...
> 
> 
> 
> https://tidal.com/track/75502314


Is this the same version?


----------



## Litlgi74

cj3209 said:


> Is this the same version?


Yes... It appears to be. You like?


----------



## cj3209 (Jan 12, 2020)

Litlgi74 said:


> Yes... It appears to be. You like?


Her voice makes me...excited...lol

I'm going through her other songs.  Thx for pointing me to her.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jan 12, 2020)

cj3209 said:


> Her voice makes me...excited...lol
> 
> I'm going through her other songs.  Thx for pointing me to her.


Wow... Great stuff on Vintage Chic as well... Blue Jeans... YeeHa!!! My day will now be consumed with great music!

For others to enjoy: https://tidal.com/browse/album/26059900

Thanks


----------



## erik701

This thread just got its 666th page, so it's time to listen to AC/DC - Highway to Hell


----------



## joseph69

erik701 said:


> This thread just got its 666th page, so it's time to listen to AC/DC - Highway to Hell


Iron Maiden Number of The Beast, not AC/DC Highway to hell.


----------



## racebit

GuyForkes said:


> I replaced the headband with a ZMF pilot pad after it snapped. More comfortable and better at distributing weight.


What we need is to remove weight, not distribute it. Anything above 500 gr is not accceptable to put on a person's head.


----------



## mulder01 (Jan 12, 2020)

racebit said:


> What we need is to remove weight, not distribute it. Anything above 500 gr is not accceptable to put on a person's head.


That would be the Diana Phi
OR
Tie a bunch of helium balloons to the top?


----------



## JLoud

Just an opinion here, I feel the GSX mk2 has great bass and is incredibly fast. I use the HeadAmp with my TC and LCD-4. It does not leave me wanting. Just my thoughts on some previous posts.


----------



## draytonklammer

Has anyone had their CC pads fall apart on them?

I have kept my pair in the leather case in the wooden box.
The box was kept in a climate controlled space.

I unpacked them today to listen and the ear pads are absolutely falling apart.
It's like the adhesive failed or something.


----------



## racebit (Jan 12, 2020)

mulder01 said:


> That would be the Diana Phi
> OR
> Tie a bunch of helium balloons to the top?



Nah, what we want is the TC sound, the Diana is not up to it, from what I read.

Anyone know the weight of the TC arms?
Using solid aluminum for the arms is far from ideal. Even using aluminum instead of lighter materials, the arms could be easily made much lighter if the arms were carved aluminum, where the walls are very thin but several cross sections reinforce it. That is what is done in many other areas where aluminum pieces need to be light.
But nowadays there are new ultra light weight materials coming to market, I think in the following years heavy headphones will become a thing of the past.


----------



## ken6217

I don’t find the TC heavy at all. LCD4 are uncomfortable. These are not.


----------



## Litlgi74

draytonklammer said:


> Has anyone had their CC pads fall apart on them?
> 
> I have kept my pair in the leather case in the wooden box.
> The box was kept in a climate controlled space.
> ...


The adhesive on mine is starting to release from leather and its mount.... hoping to have it repaired when I upgrade to the TCs.


----------



## JLoud

ken6217 said:


> I don’t find the TC heavy at all. LCD4 are uncomfortable. These are not.



I have both the LCD4 and TC. I notice the weight more on the LCD4. Although to be honest neither really bothers me.


----------



## draytonklammer

Litlgi74 said:


> The adhesive on mine is starting to release from leather and its mount.... hoping to have it repaired when I upgrade to the TCs.



It's a bit depressing considering their price -- my original pads are still in excellent shape.

I wish I could upgrade to the TC, but apparently mine is too old.
Stuck on the Phi CC.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jan 12, 2020)

draytonklammer said:


> It's a bit depressing considering their price -- my original pads are still in excellent shape.
> 
> I wish I could upgrade to the TC, but apparently mine is too old.
> Stuck on the Phi CC.


If you actually have a PHI CC frame... you can upgrade to the TCs.

like this:



$1750 upgrade!


----------



## FLTWS

ken6217 said:


> I don’t find the TC heavy at all. LCD4 are uncomfortable. These are not.



I have to agree, I found the LCD ear cups too warm in use and the weight on top of my head too concentrated in a smaller area. But the 1266 still isn't a light weight compared to my other phones.
Individual heads and ears will have different experiences.


----------



## tholt

They're definitely heavy, but the headband does a surprisingly good job distributing the weight and making them pretty comfortable. I can wear for hours, but sometimes my neck can feel it after a while.


----------



## NZtechfreak

I've not had problems with heavy 'phones at all, and that's despite having a prolapsed disc in my neck (and no, I don't have like a powerlifters build or anything). Go figure.


----------



## attmci (Jan 12, 2020)

draytonklammer said:


> Has anyone had their CC pads fall apart on them?
> 
> I have kept my pair in the leather case in the wooden box.
> The box was kept in a climate controlled space.
> ...


Wanna share a picture?

I don't recall they give us two sets of pad for cc. Do they?


----------



## Sage Encore

draytonklammer said:


> It's a bit depressing considering their price -- my original pads are still in excellent shape.
> 
> I wish I could upgrade to the TC, but apparently mine is too old.
> Stuck on the Phi CC.


Hi buddy,
I don't think you are missing much regarding the upgrade. Personally, I really find it very hard to tell them apart, at least after listening to them at my audio shop using the Nimbus amp and Kann as a source. I have yet to try it out on my system though.
As for the pads, ya, mine are also falling apart after almost a year. The leather is peeling. Wish Dekoni came out with a cheaper solution.


----------



## tholt

Sage Encore said:


> As for the pads, ya, mine are also falling apart after almost a year. The leather is peeling. Wish Dekoni came out with a cheaper solution.



+1000


----------



## Litlgi74

tholt said:


> +1000


+1

Dekoni said they may come out with a version this year....


----------



## tholt

Litlgi74 said:


> Dekoni said they may come out with a version this year....


 that's good news. I just contacted them and put in a request. The leather on mine are starting to come undone as well. The reason is so much readjusting of the pads -- the leather gets pulled on every time you take the pads off, and the CC magnets are pretty strong to release from.


----------



## ken6217

Sage Encore said:


> Hi buddy,
> I don't think you are missing much regarding the upgrade. Personally, I really find it very hard to tell them apart, at least after listening to them at my audio shop using the Nimbus amp and Kann as a source. I have yet to try it out on my system though.
> As for the pads, ya, mine are also falling apart after almost a year. The leather is peeling. Wish Dekoni came out with a cheaper solution.



Which dealer had the Nimbus?


----------



## Sage Encore

ken6217 said:


> Which dealer had the Nimbus?


Are u in Singapore? If yes, AV One carries them


----------



## Sage Encore

tholt said:


> that's good news. I just contacted them and put in a request. The leather on mine are starting to come undone as well. The reason is so much readjusting of the pads -- the leather gets pulled on every time you take the pads off, and the CC magnets are pretty strong to release from.


Keep us updated bro, I need them too. Thank you.


----------



## Tekunda

Bonddam said:


> I am not having the issue as much. The headphones bass is so ridiculous that I get a great center but then I get a lot of bass notes coming out the right side. But it is better hopefully with break in they will loosen up on the left side produce more excursion. I'm comparing the bass between my 1266 and Final audio D8000 pro edition to see how well balanced the 1266 is. The d8000 pro edition has better bass then LCD 4 and not too far behind the 1266.


So do you have a final word pertaining the bass quality between the 1266 and the Final Audio D8000?


----------



## ken6217

Sage Encore said:


> Are u in Singapore? If yes, AV One carries them



nope. I did have an office there at one time though 

I live in the USA. I was asking because I know that no brick and mortar stores are currently caring that amp, and it’s online only.


----------



## Bonddam

Tekunda said:


> So do you have a final word pertaining the bass quality between the 1266 and the Final Audio D8000?


I like the bass of both equally. Both sound different it’s difficult for me to describe the bass difference. When you think about it D8000 uses a open ear pad and 1266 relies on broken seal. So I think it is same idea for producing more bass..


----------



## tholt

Sage Encore said:


> Keep us updated bro, I need them too. Thank you.


 They got back to me and said they don 't have plans currently but will consider. Bummer


----------



## racebit

Bonddam said:


> I like the bass of both equally. Both sound different it’s difficult for me to describe the bass difference. When you think about it D8000 uses a open ear pad and 1266 relies on broken seal. So I think it is same idea for producing more bass..


What do you mean about D8000 having open earpad? I don't see any opening. Is it porous?
Anyway interesting that TC and D8000 bass is similar. I had the idea TC bass was significantly stronger than D8000. Need to read more reviews of both.


----------



## Bonddam

racebit said:


> What do you mean about D8000 having open earpad? I don't see any opening. Is it porous?
> Anyway interesting that TC and D8000 bass is similar. I had the idea TC bass was significantly stronger than D8000. Need to read more reviews of both.


Yes the earpad on the D8000 is porous. Now the bass is stronger on TC. The D8000 gives really good bass, someone on the forum said the non pro edition has more bass.


----------



## DrummerLeo (Jan 13, 2020)

Bonddam said:


> Yes the earpad on the D8000 is porous. Now the bass is stronger on TC. The D8000 gives really good bass, someone on the forum said the non pro edition has more bass.


Yes, non-pro has *more* bass, but the bass from pro is tighter and faster. I will share a comparison review of D8k, D8kpro, TC, Susvara this weekend when I receive TC.


----------



## Bonddam

I just had a LSD flashback moment listening to Dubstep. The sound was coming from outside the headphone. Was not sure if it was the audio coming from the home theater system. So I checked it again and there it is, very scary.


----------



## Bonddam

DrummerLeo said:


> Yes, non-pro has less bass, but the bass from pro is tighter and faster. I will share a comparison review of D8k, D8kpro, TC, Susvara this weekend when I receive TC.


See one said the opposite and I'm hoping they are wrong about the non pro having more bass. Being I'm into my bass I'd like to know I got the best one.


----------



## DrummerLeo

Bonddam said:


> See one said the opposite and I'm hoping they are wrong about the non pro having more bass. Being I'm into my bass I'd like to know I got the best one.


I was trying to say non-pro has more bass... Sorry about that...
Let make it clear non-pro has more bass than pro, but pro's bass is tighter and faster...


----------



## Abyss Headphones

Just us guys talking shop, a new series we'll be doing on a regular basis...
First video is up!


----------



## ken6217

Joe, when are you going to invite us there to join in and break out the top shelf bourbon and scotch to shoot the s**t.


----------



## Roasty

Not sure if it's the singxer su-6, more time with the 1266, or just my brain.. But I've been really enjoying the 1266 these past few days. Everything seems to sound just right. I've taken off the EQ (450hz +1db and 2khz -1.2db) and am enjoying it more so.


----------



## Jon L

I've noticed that when I use the headband hinge to angle the Abyss earcups a bit forward, the earpads no longer "barely sit" on my ears.  I did not want to physically bend the metal head bracket for permanent alteration, so I used a long piece of wood (aka long chopstick) and cut it to a length to push the brackets out a couple of mm using velcro.  For those with same dilemma or just looking to achieve that magical Abyss fit, this mod is fully reversible and works great 




AbyssMod by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## tholt

I don't think I've ever seen more creative and interesting (and funny) mods for headphones as I have on this thread. The chopstick mod is up there on the list. I think it just goes to show that it would be great if the frames were more adjustable in general. Necessity is the mother of invention. 

FYI you can easily bend the frame as needed, that's not permanent.


----------



## ken6217

Abyss Lo Mein.


----------



## tholt

Was thinking something like that as well. Perhaps some Egg Phi'd Rice?


----------



## ken6217

That’s better.


----------



## mulder01

I wonder how the ceramic coating holds up to being bent.  When the video of the adjustment was uploaded, I think it was black anodised aluminium.  Ceramic is not known for its flexibility...


----------



## FLTWS

Interesting, I guess users of the new model who have done some frame work on the new TC models would have posted about it by now and possibly Joe would have posted a warning of some sort. I've had no problem with my Phi with the black aluminum.


----------



## ken6217

I doubt there would be a problem with bending. Joe would have come out with a statement when you buy them not to bend them.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Where can I see a frequency graph for the TC?   I want to try some equalizing..


----------



## Tekunda (Jan 19, 2020)

rsbrsvp said:


> Where can I see a frequency graph for the TC?   I want to try some equalizing..


https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones-measurements

https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/abyss-ab1266.php


----------



## rsbrsvp

Wow.  That looks extraordinarily similar to the LCD-4 graph,  yet everyone complains about the LCD-4 Treble and you don't hear any complaints about the TC.

Am I mistaken????


----------



## CreditingKarma (Jan 19, 2020)

Tekunda said:


> https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones-measurements



I would take these with a grain of salt. These are from the OG Abyss. The Abyss is also very fit dependent and the frequency response can change drastically with positioning and fit. I don't hear the treble and uper mid dip that is present in The graph.


----------



## CreditingKarma

rsbrsvp said:


> Wow.  That looks extraordinarily similar to the LCD-4 graph,  yet everyone complains about the LCD-4 Treble and you don't hear any complaints about the TC.
> 
> Am I mistaken????




This is not a graph from the TC. This is the original Abyss.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Where can I get a TC graph???


----------



## CreditingKarma

rsbrsvp said:


> Where can I get a TC graph???



I have not seen any graphs for the TC. I personally have not find the need to eq the TC. I am really enjoying them with the Bartok in the signal path. It has a more natural yet detailed presentation that the TT2 had.


----------



## tholt

CreditingKarma said:


> I have not seen any graphs for the TC. I personally have not find the need to eq the TC. I am really enjoying them with the Bartok in the signal path. It has a more natural yet detailed presentation that the TT2 had.



That doesn't really answer his question. I'd love to see a more recent graph too


----------



## CreditingKarma

tholt said:


> That doesn't really answer his question. I'd love to see a more recent graph too



I really think that this headphone would be difficult to get a measurement on that is definitive. Like I said if you change the fit of the Abyss the frequency response can change drastically.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Jan 19, 2020)

This may be the first (and last) report of this- but I hear a very similar dip in the upper mids and treble as I do in the LCD-4.

No question- noticeably less severe- but the treble region is undoubtably dipped IMHO.

When I use the parametric equalizer settings I have for LCD-4 and apply them to the Abyss with just a few modifications- the Abyss sounds much better....  Really opens up.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Tekunda said:


> https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones-measurements
> 
> https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/abyss-ab1266.php



That is for the 1255 OG...not the Phi or Phi TC FWIW.


----------



## ken6217

CreditingKarma said:


> Like I said if you change the fit of the Abyss the frequency response can change drastically.



this actually is the most relevant comment on the subject.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Why does Abyss not release a FQ graph of the TC?


----------



## Delacaff (Jan 19, 2020)

Hope that it could help.


----------



## Alarickc

Thanks for that! About aligns with my expectations except for the 5kHz hole, though I may not have noticed it as much since the rest of my system tilts a little toward the brighter side.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Jan 19, 2020)

Again- amazing how similar the dip is to the LCD-4; in the same basic area of the frequency chart.

It could be that the dip is so much more noticeable in the LCD-4 because the bass is so much more powerful and full that the ear perceives the dip as much more severe on the LCD-4...

Just conjecturing...


----------



## tholt

@Delacaff  Wow, that graph just came out. Thanks for the find and the post. It can at least serve as a baseline.


----------



## tholt

rsbrsvp said:


> Again- amazing how similar the dip is to the LCD-4; in the same basic area of the frequency chart.


 I'm not an expert in EQ by any means (I'm more of a purist and generally don't like using it) but it would be easy enough to try the preset LCD-4 setting in Roon


----------



## rsbrsvp

I believe the Susvra has the most even frequency response of all the reference headphones.   -Not sure though...

When I use a parametric equaliser to partially cover up for the Abyss Treble hole- the Abyss sounds much more similar to the Susvara- just a bit fuller and with bit more weight down at the bass.


----------



## CreditingKarma

rsbrsvp said:


> Again- amazing how similar the dip is to the LCD-4; in the same basic area of the frequency chart.
> 
> It could be that the dip is so much more noticeable in the LCD-4 because the bass is so much more powerful and full that the ear perceives the dip as much more severe on the LCD-4...
> 
> Just conjecturing...



Are you saying that you find the bass much fuller and powerful on the LCD 4 or the Abyss?

I owned the 4z and had the 4, 4z, and 24 all at the same time as the abyss. I found the abyss to have more impact and a much cleaner bass than all of the 4 line up. The abyss do not have the same warm character that the abyss do though.


----------



## Jon L (Jan 19, 2020)

tholt said:


> I'm not an expert in EQ by any means (I'm more of a purist and generally don't like using it) but it would be easy enough to try the preset LCD-4 setting in Roon



I don't usually like to use EQ, either, and I would not call Abyss TC "reticent" in subjective listening, although I AM already pairing Abyss with rather neutral/"revealing" amplification/cabling by instinct. 
For those who don't like EQ for various reasons, I can recommend trying Foobar's "Resampler V" plugin and adjust settings to emulate "Short" digital filter, a trick i learned by manipulating Sabre DAC digital filter settings.  This setting increases atmospheric "wetness" and sparkle in that treble region, improving staging air and presence quite nicely.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/resamplerv/




ResamplerVshortFilter by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## ken6217

CreditingKarma said:


> Are you saying that you find the bass much fuller and powerful on the LCD 4 or the Abyss?
> 
> I owned the 4z and had the 4, 4z, and 24 all at the same time as the abyss. I found the abyss to have more impact and a much cleaner bass than all of the 4 line up. The abyss do not have the same warm character that the abyss do though.



I agree. I have only owned the LCD4, both the 100 ohm and 200 ohm.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Jan 19, 2020)

CreditingKarma said:


> Are you saying that you find the bass much fuller and powerful on the LCD 4 or the Abyss?
> 
> I owned the 4z and had the 4, 4z, and 24 all at the same time as the abyss. I found the abyss to have more impact and a much cleaner bass than all of the 4 line up. The abyss do not have the same warm character that the abyss do though.



I find the LCD-4 bass much heavier and thicker than the Abyss- not necessarily more impactful.  Agreed;- the Abyss bass is cleaner.  That was my entire point.    The heavier, fuller, less clean bass of the LCD-4 may contribute to the perception that the dip in the treble region of the LCD-4 is more severe than the a very similar dip in a very similar place in the treble on the Abyss which is less noticeable- perhaps due to a cleaner- but lighter bass.  Again- just conjecture..


----------



## mulder01

Episode 2 showed up on my youtube suggestions if anyone's interested


----------



## gonzalo1004es

Delacaff said:


> Hope that it could help.



This graph shows exactly what I hear with them. As much as i love them, the peak around 1KHz is clearly noticeable and gives the instruments a nasal quality to them (quite evident with grand piano recordings). The 3-5Khz issues do not bother me much, but the 1KHz one does. I have the suspicion that this one has to do with the pads (being leather), too bad Dekoni doesn't look much interested in manufacturing pads for the Abysses...


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jan 21, 2020)

I am very pleased to say that I have decided to upgrade from...



to...



And the results are glorious!


----------



## ken6217

Congrats!  

Great idea about the display.


----------



## JLoud

I found the difference subtle when I upgraded. But worthwhile for sure. But at this level incremental improvements are hard to come by. And costly. But I'm happy with my decision to upgrade.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Litlgi74 said:


> I am very pleased to say that I have decided to upgrade from...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I am happy that you are loving them. They only get better with time.


----------



## sn0gl0be

I wasn’t aware of this, but initially Joe was considering giving users the options of changing the backing of the abyss with different materials. 
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/rmaf2012/rmaf2012_abyss.htm
It goes on to say “One interesting feature of the AB-1266 is the 'phones' interchangeable driver covers. Abyss will offer an array of replacements in different kinds of wood, giving owners the ability to tailor the sound of their 'phones, not to mention their looks.”


----------



## matthewhypolite

I've recently made a couple upgrade to my main rig:

Added:
PS Audio Power Plant 3 (This made things cleaner, smoother, authoratative)
JPS Labs Superconductor 4 XLR Interconnects (This brought out more micro details and instrument seperation.)

Also,

I just rolled in the KR Audio tubes into my WA33 EE and putting them through the paces. One word, WOW!
Cant wait to hear what these monsters do once burnt in.

I've mainly been running the following: Quad NOS RCA 2A3, and Brimar NOS 274B with the EH Gold tubes.
Currently dialed in the KR HP 2A3 Quad and KR HP 274B (with the EH Gold drivers).

Also have the following 274B Rectifier Tubes : Takasuki, WE NOS.

More impressions of the KR Stuff in a couple weeks once they've had some time to burn in.


----------



## joseph69

matthewhypolite said:


> More impressions of the KR Stuff in a couple weeks once they've had some time to burn in.


Looking forward to your impressions of the KR tubes. I've yet to try anything other than the stock tubes (which made me purchase the WA33) 
and the EML (solid plate) 2A3's, EHX 6C45Pi's and UE 596 so I'm most probably going to buy some new power tubes in the near future just for a change.


----------



## matthewhypolite

joseph69 said:


> Looking forward to your impressions of the KR tubes. I've yet to try anything other than the stock tubes (which made me purchase the WA33)
> and the EML (solid plate) 2A3's, EHX 6C45Pi's and UE 596 so I'm most probably going to buy some new power tubes in the near future just for a change.



What did you think of the eml/eh/ue compared to stock?


----------



## joseph69

matthewhypolite said:


> What did you think of the eml/eh/ue compared to stock?



To be quite honest, I'd have to go back to the stock tubes and let them burn in sufficiently in order to give a fair assessment between their differences. For the most part, I immediately purchased the EML's, 6C45Pi's and already had the UE596 and they've been in my amp pretty much since it arrived, if not as soon as it arrived. 

Now that they're sufficiently burned it would be easy for me to do a comparison to other tubes, but again, as long as they're burned in also. Maybe I'll throw in my stock tubes and burn them in being I do feel I could use a little change. I do know you didn't care for the stock tubes, but as I mentioned, they are what made me purchase the WA33, so I can't say I didn't like the way they sounded.


----------



## matthewhypolite

joseph69 said:


> To be quite honest, I'd have to go back to the stock tubes and let them burn in sufficiently in order to give a fair assessment between their differences. For the most part, I immediately purchased the EML's, 6C45Pi's and already had the UE596 and they've been in my amp pretty much since it arrived, if not as soon as it arrived.
> 
> Now that they're sufficiently burned it would be easy for me to do a comparison to other tubes, but again, as long as they're burned in also. Maybe I'll throw in my stock tubes and burn them in being I do feel I could use a little change. I do know you didn't care for the stock tubes, but as I mentioned, they are what made me purchase the WA33, so I can't say I didn't like the way they sounded.


Well evrything is relative, I used stock tubes for about 6 months, and loved them. The amp sounded great. Until I heard better tubes


----------



## ken6217 (Jan 22, 2020)

I had the KR Coke Bottle 300B tubes and they were the best 300B tubes I’ve heard. Absolutely killer bass and slam.

I have also been kicking around the idea of the PS Audio Power Plant or similar. I just got done running two 10 gauge cryogenic Romex to my panel on separate breakers. One for digital and one for analog. Man what a PITA working with 10 gauge.


----------



## honeyjjack

Im running my phi cc with Musical Paradise mp-d2, audio gd master 9 with Audio Art interconnects and Silverfi hp4 signature cables. I wanted to write a review of the silverfi cables, but realized i have dont have the stock cable to compare them to. If anyone wants to come over to try my stuff and can bring stock cables please let me know  I live in LA.


----------



## Jon L

My Almarro A205 II EL84 single-ended pentode amp was custom ordered with 4-pin XLR output for my old AKG K1000.  I just tried it with Abyss 1266 Phi TC, and the combo sounds UNbelievably good.  The amp has been modded with the awesome Jupiter copper foil caps and carefully fitted with nice tubes, etc, and the combo just Rocks out with super-natural dynamics and bass power/definition.  




0122201915 by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## tholt

Jon L said:


> My Almarro A205 II EL84 single-ended pentode amp was custom ordered with 4-pin XLR output for my old AKG K1000. I just tried it with Abyss 1266 Phi TC, and the combo sounds UNbelievably good. The amp has been modded with the awesome Jupiter copper foil caps and carefully fitted with nice tubes, etc, and the combo just Rocks out with super-natural dynamics and bass power/definition.



That's awesome! What's the output? I think tubes and the 1266 (as long as you have enough power) are made for each other. The Abyss benefits from a quality tube amp. I use an EL-84 based amp  as well. I didn't think it would have what it takes to power them, let alone actually sound good, but it friggin sounds fantastic. Huge soundstage and dimensionality; incredibly musical


----------



## Jon L

Almarro is 5 watts/8 Ohms.  I leave amp's volume pot all the way open and use Foobar's volume control, which is way too loud at like 1/4 way up.  EL84 is a severely underrated tube IMO.




0122201924 by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## astrostar59 (Jan 23, 2020)

Hi Guys
I have owned many high end phones, a more recently the TC.Also more recently I became a dealer.
I finally got my headphone dealer / demo centre going in Spain. Anyone in this area want a demo, just contact me. And hooked up to the Aries Cerat Genus amplifier.... wow amazing.


----------



## Jon L (Jan 24, 2020)

Fririce0003 said:


> No, not possible, Audeze is 4 pin mini xlr, abyss is 3 pin mini... A 4 pin female will insert into the Abyss but it will short stuff out due to the difference in wiring. I would not advise. A 3 pin mini will not however insert into the Audeze headphones.
> For reference on the Audeze, pin 1&2 are hot and 3&4 being cold. For the abyss, pin 1 is ground, pin 2 is hot and pin 3 is cold. From memory. So inserting the Audeze cable into the abyss will short the signal to ground, your amp will not like this.
> Please note the pin outs may not be exact and are from memory. I did however meter the cables out using my multimeter (Fluke 117) and recall that it would short the amp out.
> Peter does however make short adaptors that can be used at a reasonable price.



Sorry to dig up this old post, but I believe the quoted statement about how Audeze 4 pin mini XLR (female) cable plugged into Abyss (3 pin mini XLR male) will short the Abyss may be wrong? 

After some googling, I found these pinouts re Audeze and Abyss.







AbyssPinout by drjlo2, on Flickr

So on both Audeze and Abyss mini XLR, pin 1 will be hot and pin 3 cold.  Pin 2 is not connected on Abyss and pin 4 on Audeze is hot but will not connect to Abyss which has no pin 4.
I also found some old posts where people said it works to plug Audeze cable into Abyss, that pins line up fine (no pin 4 obviously), just the outer housing is tight-fit. 
https://www.changstar.com/www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1061.130.html

I just bought an Audeze cable to try on my Abyss, so anyone else tried this?


----------



## honeyjjack

Just put Dekoni nuggets on my abyss. Worked perfectly for me displacing some of the weight across the side of my head where the strap would normally not touch.


----------



## Delacaff

honeyjjack said:


> Just put Dekoni nuggets on my abyss. Worked perfectly for me displacing some of the weight across the side of my head where the strap would normally not touch.


This is excellent ! Never heard about the nuggets before. Thank you very much for the tip @honeyjjack. In the past, I tried to enhance the comfort of the Abyss with ZMF leather headband and it could be great if only it doesn't move so much + the DYI is uneasy. Here with the Dekoni, all you have to do is settle the nuggets to the Abyss headband and done! I just ordered them. Wondering if the far right / left position of the nuggets will be good for my head.

Besides comfort enhancement / weigh relief, does the nuggets upper the cans?


----------



## astrostar59

Jon L said:


> Sorry to dig up this old post, but I believe the quoted statement about how Audeze 4 pin mini XLR (female) cable plugged into Abyss (3 pin mini XLR male) will short the Abyss may be wrong?
> 
> After some googling, I found these pinouts re Audeze and Abyss.
> 
> ...



But 4 pins won't go into a 3 pin plug? But 3 pins 'may' go into a 4 pin plug, though doubt they will line up. My advice is get the correct convertor, do it the right way.


----------



## mulder01

I thought it had been mentioned several times that Audeze cables don't fit Abyss?


----------



## JLoud

I have the LCD4 and Abyss TC. The cables aren’t interchangeable.


----------



## ken6217

You can buy adapters however.


----------



## matthewhypolite

ken6217 said:


> You can buy adapters however.


Which adapters are those?


----------



## ken6217 (Jan 25, 2020)

Affinity Cables in Singapore. $85.00. Cut and paste below from their ad:

*Audeze LCD 2/3/4 to Abyss Adapter *

*Handcrafted with Premium WBT Silver Solder*

*Made with only top grade materials, 
 OCC silver litz internal wiring, Gold plated contact pins, WBT Silver Solder.
 To ensure this adapter does not alter or degrade audio quality.*


----------



## ken6217

honeyjjack said:


> Just put Dekoni nuggets on my abyss. Worked perfectly for me displacing some of the weight across the side of my head where the strap would normally not touch.



That’s a great idea.


----------



## astrostar59

CreditingKarma said:


> I have not seen any graphs for the TC. I personally have not find the need to eq the TC. I am really enjoying them with the Bartok in the signal path. It has a more natural yet detailed presentation that the TT2 had.



I also find I don't need any EQ with my DAC and amplifier combination. If you can avoid EQ it is best, as you always loose something in the (digital) EQ process, usually soundstage width and depth, amongst other things.


----------



## wasupdog

It's "affinitycables" on fleabay but I'm sure you could contact them directly.  I have a few of their adapters.


----------



## Jon L

JLoud said:


> I have the LCD4 and Abyss TC. The cables aren’t interchangeable.



Hmm.  Strange... Then the people in the very old thread were smoking something, I guess.  They said the 3 holes (male pins) on the Abyss line up with 3 (out of 4) holes of Audeze female plug.  Just the outer casing is a tight fit. 
I guess I'll just try it.  If it doesn't fit, I do have some mini 3-pin XLR plugs I can rewire with.  That would be a shame since I kind of wanted to try some ZMF and Audeze 'phones in future possibly.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The pin spacing is different between 3 pin and 4 pin mini XLR's. It may fit if you force it but it will bend the pins in the headphone jack.


----------



## ken6217

I wouldn’t screw around with it and potentially damaging the headphones. 

I actually bought that adapter so I could use the Lazuli Reference cable from my Empyrean. However after trying that cable on my TC, I took off and hooked back up my Superconductor cable as it is far superior.


----------



## tholt

Well, this just happened tonight. The leather had been working itself out for a little bit over a period of about a month, I was gently trying to tuck it back in but was getting annoyed -- and it kept working itself out again. This is not even rotating them, they have been on the headphone untouched. Tonight it just completely fell apart. It's pretty much unusable at this point. The more I try to fix it, the worse it gets.

I emailed Abyss, hopefully they can help out with something. I doubt this is under warranty, but man, the thought of paying $400 for a replacement set for the same kind of quality doesn't sit right.


----------



## ken6217

I’d have to believe they would work something out with you.


----------



## attmci (Jan 27, 2020)

They outsourcing these?????

The magnet is pretty strong. Did you rotate/adjust the pad like crazy?



tholt said:


> Well, this just happened tonight. The leather had been working itself out for a little bit over a period of about a month, I was gently trying to tuck it back in but was getting annoyed -- and it kept working itself out again. This is not even rotating them, they have been on the headphone untouched. Tonight it just completely fell apart. It's pretty much unusable at this point. The more I try to fix it, the worse it gets.
> 
> I emailed Abyss, hopefully they can help out with something. I doubt this is under warranty, but man, the thought of paying $400 for a replacement set for the same kind of quality doesn't sit right.


----------



## attmci

sn0gl0be said:


> I wasn’t aware of this, but initially Joe was considering giving users the options of changing the backing of the abyss with different materials.
> http://www.theaudiobeat.com/rmaf2012/rmaf2012_abyss.htm
> It goes on to say “One interesting feature of the AB-1266 is the 'phones' interchangeable driver covers. Abyss will offer an array of replacements in different kinds of wood, giving owners the ability to tailor the sound of their 'phones, not to mention their looks.”



Never happened?


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> I’d have to believe they would work something out with you.


I got a bit of a discount on new pads. I'm thankful for that and the rapid response. Still kind of a bummer. Just need to be extra careful when removing them from the frame. The design of the pads could be improved IMO so that one didn't have to pull at the actual leather (thus the adhesive) to remove the pad. Would be better if the plastic ring with the holes were slightly bigger diameter so that that is what you grabbed onto instead.



attmci said:


> The magnet is pretty strong. Did you rotate/adjust the pad like crazy?



Nope, I'd say normal amount. But over time, I would assume everyone rotates the pads a decent amount to get the right fit. They should hold up to that IMO. It is what it is.


----------



## mulder01

attmci said:


> Never happened?


No - I think that photo was before the first AB-1266 was released.  
Although IIRC, someone had a custom pair made with the spiderweb pattern


----------



## ken6217

tholt said:


> I got a bit of a discount on new pads. I'm thankful for that and the rapid response. Still kind of a bummer. Just need to be extra careful when removing them from the frame. The design of the pads could be improved IMO so that one didn't have to pull at the actual leather (thus the adhesive) to remove the pad. Would be better if the plastic ring with the holes were slightly bigger diameter so that that is what you grabbed onto instead.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, I'd say normal amount. But over time, I would assume everyone rotates the pads a decent amount to get the right fit. They should hold up to that IMO. It is what it is.



But once you have it set to the right position for you, do you still take it off and on?


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> But once you have it set to the right position for you, do you still take it off and on?


 No. It just takes some time adjusting to find the right position as you probably know. And even then, sometimes you may want to move it to get a different sound signature. However, I think I've found my ideal spot so the new set will likely be set and forget.

I'm really not sure how the pad disintegrated so rapidly. It seemed like the glue got less adhesive over time and more sort of gummy. Then last night it seemed to just all come apart at once. I'll be very careful with this new set. Not something I want/need to spend money on!

Here's what Abyss wrote re: getting the pads off. They must have seen my post: "Note you can grab the plastic magnetic ring to remove these without  pulling on the lambskin, just have to get 5 fingers around the ring and squeeze while breaking the magnet seal from one side." I'll certainly be more conscious of grabbing the ring and the ring only.


----------



## ken6217

I didn't realize you were gripping it by the earpad. I only grip by the metal ring. I'd be too afraid I'd rip the leather off.


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> I didn't realize you were gripping it by the earpad. I only grip by the metal ring. I'd be too afraid I'd rip the leather off.



I always tried to grip it by the ring, but the leather sticks out a bit past the ring so inevitably I'd be pulling a little on the leather as well. It would be much better IMO if the ring diameter was just a bit wider, instead of the same diameter as the driver enclosure, which would make gripping it a lot easier. I'll just have to be extra careful if I ever adjust them in the future.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jan 26, 2020)

I might sell these Susvaras.   The TCs, with the Super Conductor cables, through the DAVE I recently purchased, into the WA33 amp are the CLEAR winner between the two.  The TCs scaled up something crazy with the addition of the DAVE (I previously had the TT2).

I tried the SC cables on my Susvaras, with an adapter, and they sounded better, but not TC levels.

I guess to be fair, I should try out the Lazuli Nirvanas on the Susvaras, which I probably will do.  But, I'm skeptical 

So, basically, I'm saying if you have to choose between the Susvaras and TCs, I say pick the TCs


----------



## jlbrach

both phenomenal


----------



## ken6217 (Jan 26, 2020)

Ciggavelli said:


> I might sell these Susvaras.   The TCs, with the Super Conductor cables, through the DAVE I recently purchased, into the WA33 amp are the CLEAR winner between the two.  The TCs scaled up something crazy with the addition of the DAVE (I previously had the TT2).
> 
> I tried the SC cables on my Susvaras, with an adapter, and they sounded better, but not TC levels.
> 
> ...



Replied to the wrong person.


----------



## matthewhypolite

ken6217 said:


> He tows them in to the front. That worked for me as well.
> 
> Btw, so if there is more bass on one side, I need to shift the headphones left and right to even out the spacing between the ear pads and my face I assume?





tholt said:


> I got a bit of a discount on new pads. I'm thankful for that and the rapid response. Still kind of a bummer. Just need to be extra careful when removing them from the frame. The design of the pads could be improved IMO so that one didn't have to pull at the actual leather (thus the adhesive) to remove the pad. Would be better if the plastic ring with the holes were slightly bigger diameter so that that is what you grabbed onto instead.
> 
> 
> Nope, I'd say normal amount. But over time, I would assume everyone rotates the pads a decent amount to get the right fit. They should hold up to that IMO. It is what it is.





tholt said:


> No. It just takes some time adjusting to find the right position as you probably know. And even then, sometimes you may want to move it to get a different sound signature. However, I think I've found my ideal spot so the new set will likely be set and forget.
> 
> I'm really not sure how the pad disintegrated so rapidly. It seemed like the glue got less adhesive over time and more sort of gummy. Then last night it seemed to just all come apart at once. I'll be very careful with this new set. Not something I want/need to spend money on!
> 
> Here's what Abyss wrote re: getting the pads off. They must have seen my post: "Note you can grab the plastic magnetic ring to remove these without  pulling on the lambskin, just have to get 5 fingers around the ring and squeeze while breaking the magnet seal from one side." I'll certainly be more conscious of grabbing the ring and the ring only.



I personally have never removed those pads by holding the leather. I just tried to remove them naturally again to see what i do, and i do exactly as abyss descries in your post. my palm cups the entire pad, and i place my 5 fingers at the base/plastic, and i pop them off from there.
My original abyss pads (from the OG abyss) are still good as new, and those are really old by now.


----------



## tholt

matthewhypolite said:


> I personally have never removed those pads by holding the leather. I just tried to remove them naturally again to see what i do, and i do exactly as abyss descries in your post. my palm cups the entire pad, and i place my 5 fingers at the base/plastic, and i pop them off from there.


I do the same, at least I try to. Cup, grip, lift. I never just grab the leather. I don't have the biggest hands, so maybe I'm not gripping the ring as firmly as needed. As I mentioned, the leather of the pads slightly extends beyond the ring. I try to use my fingertips to just grab the ring, but I feel like it's easy to inadvertently tug on the leather slightly as well. Maybe it's just me.


----------



## CreditingKarma

ken6217 said:


> Replied to the wrong person.



Yes I am the one that picked up the Bartok. This past weekend my friend brought over a bunch of his gear and we had a mini meet. He just picked up a fully upgraded MSB premire stack and brought is new Traformatic Primavera and formula s. 

The Primavera is really amazing with the abyss. It is the best that I have ever heard it sound. With the MSB it was incredible. I can not afford this combo though it is in excess of $50k for the amp and dac.

That being said we listened against his Dave and mscaler combo too. In the end I am glad that I went with the Bartok it is more to my liking ( I would really like to get the rossini but $). I have no intentions on upgrading my dac for a good long while now. 

He did let me keep his formula s to audition for a while too. The formula sounds incredible with the abyss and Bartok.

Here is a photo from the proceedings. Please forgive the traformatic on the box and the Dave on the floor ( we did move it to a solid surface for listening.) The traformatic is huge though.


----------



## lambdastorm

Jon L said:


> Sorry to dig up this old post, but I believe the quoted statement about how Audeze 4 pin mini XLR (female) cable plugged into Abyss (3 pin mini XLR male) will short the Abyss may be wrong?
> 
> After some googling, I found these pinouts re Audeze and Abyss.
> 
> ...


The last picture looks like cow udder lmao


----------



## ken6217

CreditingKarma said:


> Yes I am the one that picked up the Bartok. This past weekend my friend brought over a bunch of his gear and we had a mini meet. He just picked up a fully upgraded MSB premire stack and brought is new Traformatic Primavera and formula s.
> 
> The Primavera is really amazing with the abyss. It is the best that I have ever heard it sound. With the MSB it was incredible. I can not afford this combo though it is in excess of $50k for the amp and dac.
> 
> ...



I got my “C” s mixed up. 

Lots of nice equipment. However you did nothing for the sound bu stacking equipment on top of each other, as well as putting the Dave on the carpet. It has more of  (negative) impact on the sound than you think.


----------



## CreditingKarma

ken6217 said:


> I got my “C” s mixed up.
> 
> Lots of nice equipment. However you did nothing for the sound bu stacking equipment on top of each other, as well as putting the Dave on the carpet. It has more of  (negative) impact on the sound than you think.



 We moved in another table for the Dave and formula later. I didn't take a picture of it at that point there was so much gear in the room. My other friend brought his auris nirvana too. The Dave and mscaler were on a table side by side with the formula too. The MSB and formula are both designed to be stacked components. I really wish I could afford the MSB it was really good too. But I would still rather have the vivaldi. I don't see much about MSB or dCS here on headfi. They seek to be more prevalent in the 2 channel world.


----------



## Ratephi

Received my new TC just a few hours ago. Very promising but it's obviously too soon to express any impression. The headphone really needs some solid burn-in since it sounds very close and fairly unbalanced across the spectrum (especially in the mids). I find it surprisingly comfortable! It didn't took me long to find the right adjustment for my head and while it does weight a bit, you really get to appreciate the total absence of any clamping force on the sides...

More details impressions later on.


----------



## bfreedma

Ratephi said:


> Received my new TC just a few hours ago. Very promising but it's obviously too soon to express any impression. The headphone really needs some solid burn-in since it sounds very close and fairly unbalanced across the spectrum (especially in the mids). I find it surprisingly comfortable! It didn't took me long to find the right adjustment for my head and while it does weight a bit, you really get to appreciate the total absence of any clamping force on the sides...
> 
> More details impressions later on.




If the Abyss (or any other headphone) is that far from optimal when sent to the customer, how can the manufacturer test them for accuracy against the defined standard?

I doubt JPS is sending out untested units, so something isn't connecting with the "night and day" burn in variance.


----------



## Ratephi

Maybe you are right and the whole concept of burning-in is just placebo. Or maybe the 1266 are not that good after all!


----------



## jlbrach

the TC are that good and although burn in is real the TC should sound wonderful from the moment you first listen to it


----------



## Ratephi

Did they sound great from the very first moment in your case?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Ratephi said:


> Did they sound great from the very first moment in your case?


Mine sounded really good the first moment out of the case.  I also generally do not subscribe to the philosophy that you need to burn-in equipment.  I think a lot of the "burn-in" is really just you getting used to the sound.  I know others disagree, but that's just me.  Either way, you need to give the headphones some listening to for an extended period of time to get used to them and to determine if you want to keep them


----------



## Ratephi

Ciggavelli said:


> Mine sounded really good the first moment out of the case.  I also generally do not subscribe to the philosophy that you need to burn-in equipment.  I think a lot of the "burn-in" is really just you getting used to the sound.  I know others disagree, but that's just me.  Either way, you need to give the headphones some listening to for an extended period of time to get used to them and to determine if you want to keep them



I agree, getting your ears used to the new headphone plays a substantial role. But I personally still believe that the actual burn-in of the device is important.


----------



## tholt

Ratephi said:


> Did they sound great from the very first moment in your case?



You really need to play around with fit to get the best sound. This involves expanding or contracting the headband, rotating the headband for toe in/out and rotating the pads. There are a few posts with different suggestions, but I suspect that's what is not optimized right now for you. Burn in could help, but it's not (and never is) night and day, IMO.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Ratephi said:


> Did they sound great from the very first moment in your case?



Mines did. And when I get a new headphone, I usually do an initial listen, then burn them in without listening to them at all, then listen again post burn in. So in my case "getting used to it" is not a factor as I don't listen to my cans during burn in.

But, yes, my abyss sounded great out of d box, and even better after burn in.


----------



## Ratephi

matthewhypolite said:


> Mines did. And when I get a new headphone, I usually do an initial listen, then burn them in without listening to them at all, then listen again post burn in. So in my case "getting used to it" is not a factor as I don't listen to my cans during burn in.
> 
> But, yes, my abyss sounded great out of d box, and even better after burn in.




That's very much what I'm planning to do and the outcome I'm expecting to achieve.


----------



## Bonddam (Jan 27, 2020)

I just received Formula S and Powerman. I'm starting to like it, I didn't care for it the second I got it hooked up. Could have been from shipping that I didn't like it over my GS-X mini. I'm going to say it's more lively in the treble. Same amount of power in low end as the mini. The mini wasn't the right synergy when compared to the Formula S. I'd say the warm nature of the mini held it back I only say this because I'm enjoying the music more now.


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> I just received Formula S and Powerman. I'm starting to like it, I didn't care for it the second I got it hooked up. Could have been from shipping that I didn't like it over my GS-X mini. I'm going to say it's more lively in the treble. Same amount of power in low end as the mini. The mini wasn't the right synergy when compared to the Formula S. I'd say the warm nature of the mini held it back I only say this because I'm enjoying the music more now.



How long is just received? You definitely need a few hours of warm-up and I’d say 100 hours of breakin at least to get a good idea of how it sounds.


----------



## Bonddam

ken6217 said:


> How long is just received? You definitely need a few hours of warm-up and I’d say 100 hours of breakin at least to get a good idea of how it sounds.


I've only been listening an hour or 2. I figure it needs some break in, wasn't expecting 100 hrs.


----------



## jlbrach

Ratephi said:


> Did they sound great from the very first moment in your case?



yes


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> I've only been listening an hour or 2. I figure it needs some break in, wasn't expecting 100 hrs.



I’m sure it will sound better before 100 hours, but you do have to get some time on it. It may not even be properly warmed up in an hour or two


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## Bonddam (Jan 27, 2020)

I switched from 1266 to Empyrean and there's a hum not controlled by volume. It's even there with the DAC off. This was not there with the 1266 maybe because of sensitivity so high on the Empyrean. This sucks because the veil is gone( compared to the mini). I have unplugged xlr to see if it was from power cord but it didn't go away. I do have the Formula S mounted on top of the Powerman. If that isn't the culprit I'm out of ideas. I should also mention the 1266 running off the 3 pin xlr outputs. the hum is on the 4 pin xlr. I'm going to test my other headphones. I tested my HEDDphone which is 87 db and it's hard to hear it but it's there on the 4 pin xlr.


----------



## ken6217 (Jan 27, 2020)

I’d ask Joe this opinion.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Bonddam said:


> I switched from 1266 to Empyrean and there's a hum not controlled by volume. It's even there with the DAC off. This was not there with the 1266 maybe because of sensitivity so high on the Empyrean. This sucks because the veil is gone( compared to the mini). I have unplugged xlr to see if it was from power cord but it didn't go away. I do have the Formula S mounted on top of the Powerman. If that isn't the culprit I'm out of ideas. I should also mention the 1266 running off the 3 pin xlr outputs. the hum is on the 4 pin xlr. I'm going to test my other headphones.



There's a toggle switch on the rear panel, top center, that sets gain. Try switching it in the down position for low gain with higher sensitivity phones. 
If you are still having issues, we need to work on troubleshooting a ground loop hum, email us.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Burn-in... There are all sorts of reasons to recommend allowing TIME with any new gear before doing ay critical listening, one of which is certainly letting the brain become accustomed to the new acoustic, similar to changing a listening room with speakers. There are also mechanical, electrical, and cable related burn-in, along with temperature, all interacting with your gear and environment in different ways, no two ways the same for any one person and system. 

We ALWAYS recommend a good 100-150 hours of play time at moderately higher volume levels for our headphones, new electronics, and/or new cables, before doing any critical listening. If your a daily player suggest leaving solid state gear on all of the time so it's ready to go, or at least have it on for at least a good hour or so before trying to enjoy. With tube amps, suggest leaving front-end electronics such as the DAC powered up continuously, turn on the tube amp just prior to listening (tubes have a finite life) and let it warm up until it sounds pleasing to you. Electronics tend to sound smoother once they reach operating temperature.


----------



## Bonddam

Thanks for the knowledge.

Bill


----------



## attmci

tholt said:


> I got a bit of a discount on new pads. I'm thankful for that and the rapid response. Still kind of a bummer. Just need to be extra careful when removing them from the frame. The design of the pads could be improved IMO so that one didn't have to pull at the actual leather (thus the adhesive) to remove the pad. Would be better if the plastic ring with the holes were slightly bigger diameter so that that is what you grabbed onto instead.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, I'd say normal amount. But over time, I would assume everyone rotates the pads a decent amount to get the right fit. They should hold up to that IMO. It is what it is.


Fair enough. It took a while to figure out the "perfect" position.


----------



## attmci

mulder01 said:


> No - I think that photo was before the first AB-1266 was released.
> Although IIRC, someone had a custom pair made with the spiderweb pattern


Switch the driver covers will change the sound-stage etc.....Interesting idea.


----------



## ahossam

I don't hear any noise whatsoever on my setup with 1266 TC.

Do I still get benefits (sound quality wise) if I add power regenerator like PS Audio Power Plant 3 to my setup?


----------



## ken6217

You should do some reading up on power conditioners and power generators first and then decide. There are some good ones out there but I don’t think the one you mentioned should be your first choice. I would look at Audioquest and Shunyata.

It has nothing to do with hearing a hum or a noise out of a speaker or some other noise. It has to do with lowering the noise floor and having a blacker background,.and therefore hearing more low level detail and resolution to the music.

However as I previously mentioned, do some reading up on this subject first, and then decide if you want to do this.


----------



## F208Frank

Can anyone here give a detailed comparison between Susvara and Abyss 1266 TC?

Thanks!


----------



## matthewhypolite

F208Frank said:


> Can anyone here give a detailed comparison between Susvara and Abyss 1266 TC?
> 
> Thanks!


See the TOTL review in my sig, if u need more info let me know.


----------



## Ratephi

Almost 50 hours into burn-in of my TC  --->  Do NOT try to convince me that burnin-in does not produce results on the 1266!...


----------



## astrostar59

Nice collection of amps there. I agree the Abyss and a top tube amp makes for something really special. Out of the Aries Cerat Genus it is the best I have heard. Actually the Primavera is more expensive than the Genus.


----------



## justonwo

I just got a Chord Hugo TT 2, Hugo M Scaler, Auris Nirvana, and Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC complete package and have been listening all day for the past few days. Breathtaking soundstage and clarity. I’ve jumped a couple of times already thinking someone was behind me only to realize it was part of the music. 

The experience is nothing short of inspirational. With all the new gear, it’s hard to know what to attribute to what, but this combination is absolutely phenomenal. I can’t wait for the WA-33.


----------



## JLoud

Sounds like Publishers Clearing House dropped a check off. Just kidding. Some pretty awesome gear there. I would love to know what you think of the WA33. I have been contemplating one for a while. Haven't been able to demo and am curious how much of a step up it is over my WA5.


----------



## F208Frank

So...I noticed a good amount of people posting about how the Abyss is amazing with a tube amp. Though I am sure that is the case, a question came to mind.

We all know tubes are unique and great. For you tube amp owners out there, how do you navigate around the fact that the tunes are adding a signature to the sound and in summary not listening to the headphone for what it is?

A part of me feels like I should have an amp that is revealing the headphones for what they are, maybe I am too rigid in this regard but I hope someone understand my question and can chime in.


----------



## Roasty

F208Frank said:


> So...I noticed a good amount of people posting about how the Abyss is amazing with a tube amp. Though I am sure that is the case, a question came to mind.
> 
> We all know tubes are unique and great. For you tube amp owners out there, how do you navigate around the fact that the tunes are adding a signature to the sound and in summary not listening to the headphone for what it is?
> 
> A part of me feels like I should have an amp that is revealing the headphones for what they are, maybe I am too rigid in this regard but I hope someone understand my question and can chime in.



It's kinda like some folks apply eq and some do not.

My personal opinion is there is no right or wrong. I like to have both sides of the story, hence, at least one of both an ss amp and tube amp.

With the abyss, I like the clean sound with the HPA4 (which u also have), but definitely enjoy my listening more with the colouration from the tubes.


----------



## ken6217

F208Frank said:


> So...I noticed a good amount of people posting about how the Abyss is amazing with a tube amp. Though I am sure that is the case, a question came to mind.
> 
> We all know tubes are unique and great. For you tube amp owners out there, how do you navigate around the fact that the tunes are adding a signature to the sound and in summary not listening to the headphone for what it is?
> 
> A part of me feels like I should have an amp that is revealing the headphones for what they are, maybe I am too rigid in this regard but I hope someone understand my question and can chime in.



What's the difference? Your DAC, streamer, and all cables are imparting their own signature to the sound anyway. You're not hearing anything "pure" regardless.


----------



## mahesvara

F208Frank said:


> how do you navigate around the fact that the tunes are adding a signature to the sound and in summary not listening to the headphone for what it is?



How do you know a solid state amp isn't doing the same thing? How do you know the DAC that feeds that amp adds its own coloration? What about the transport? 

You're never listening to any single component in your chain. You're listening to the cumulative effect of the whole chain at once.

If you like what comes out of your headphones, does it matter that what that tube amp does in isolation?


----------



## MacedonianHero

F208Frank said:


> So...I noticed a good amount of people posting about how the Abyss is amazing with a tube amp. Though I am sure that is the case, a question came to mind.
> 
> We all know tubes are unique and great. For you tube amp owners out there, how do you navigate around the fact that the tunes are adding a signature to the sound and in summary not listening to the headphone for what it is?
> 
> A part of me feels like I should have an amp that is revealing the headphones for what they are, maybe I am too rigid in this regard but I hope someone understand my question and can chime in.



I think that's a bit too general a statement about tube amps. Orthos (especially like the Phi TC), need current (and lots of power overall). Tube amps tend to be better with high output impedance dynamic headphones in my travels. That's not to say all tube amps...if you get a really special tube amp with gobs of clean power like Woo's WA33, then I say go for it! They sound absolutely sublime with it. But a low power tube amp (or OTL amp), they sound on the life-less side of things. So I suppose like most things in life...it depends.


----------



## tholt

F208Frank said:


> We all know tubes are unique and great. For you tube amp owners out there, how do you navigate around the fact that the tunes are adding a signature to the sound and in summary not listening to the headphone for what it is?



How do you know what the sound of the Abyss "is"? As others have stated, everything in the chain affects the sound, not just the amp. And to that end, SS can be just as colored as tubes, and tubes can sound like SS. I don't sweat being 'pure', my God, this hobby is stressful enough as it is! I don't need my OCD going full tilt. The Abyss will always sound like an Abyss with good equipment. I've had lots of SS and tube amps through here, as well as DACs and cables. The sound changed, sure, but I never felt for a second that I wasn't getting the qualities of the Abyss, regardless of what was upstream.


----------



## justonwo

I’m using a tube amp because I need something powerful and that’s what I happen to have. I don’t have much experience with hifi tube amps - but a ton with guitar amps (I used to build them). My thinking is that it depends on the design of the tube amp just how much coloration is added. I don’t notice any special coloration of “tube-iness” to the sound. I’ll try it at some point with the Hugo direct to see what I think, but I’m trying to just enjoy things before doing a bunch of comparisons. I don’t think the Nirvana colors the sound at all as far as I can tell.


----------



## justonwo

And I expect, by the way, the WA33 is designed much the same way. I believe they are trying to get SS-like response without too much edginess. All I can say is I enjoy the sound of the chain as it is.


----------



## justonwo

JLoud said:


> Sounds like Publishers Clearing House dropped a check off. Just kidding. Some pretty awesome gear there. I would love to know what you think of the WA33. I have been contemplating one for a while. Haven't been able to demo and am curious how much of a step up it is over my WA5.



Yeah, it’s been a crazy month for hifi. I tripped headlong and without hesitation into the rabbit hole! I should have the WA-33 Elite JPS in a couple months and will be able to compare. I’m on equipment overload at the moment.


----------



## simorag

A great recording, one of the major pianists of the XX century, a glass of Franciacorta and the Abyss TC ... priceless


----------



## astrostar59

On tube amps for headphones I find they sound more natural than many SS. Timbre, fullness and weight, pure smooth treble. My tube amp I am using is super transparent, really no slope in the treble at all. It is super fast. And being a big bottle SET has a huge soundstage and 3D image.

So my view is not all tube amps are the same, just like not all SS amps either. If you find a transparent, fast and smooth tube amp, then you will be happy forever.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Is anyone using their TC with the formula s and powerman combo? What are your thought on it? I currently have the liquid platinum with my Bartok and might be able.to switch the Bartok for one with the headphone amp. Does the formula s leave anything to be desired in terms of driving the abyss? I know that it is the amp that jps prefers to pair with the TC.

Thanks in advance


----------



## ken6217

CreditingKarma said:


> Is anyone using their TC with the formula s and powerman combo? What are your thought on it? I currently have the liquid platinum with my Bartok and might be able.to switch the Bartok for one with the headphone amp. Does the formula s leave anything to be desired in terms of driving the abyss? I know that it is the amp that jps prefers to pair with the TC.
> 
> Thanks in advance



I’m sure you know that’s a question that cannot be answered except by you if you try it.

Obviously the amp can drive the 1266 or Joe wouldn’t have developed it for it.

The real question is does it check all of the boxes of what sounds pleasing to you. Only you can answer that.

In addition to that, anyone that will offer their opinion will have different equipment, have different likes, and hear differently.

If you want a real definitive answer, send back the Bartok and get the headphone option, and then see if you can get a demo Formula S amp and Powerman, then A-B it and pick what you like best.


----------



## Roasty

How about the Woo Audio 33 JPS edition? I think that could be my tube end game..


----------



## CreditingKarma (Jan 30, 2020)

ken6217 said:


> I’m sure you know that’s a question that cannot be answered except by you if you try it.
> 
> Obviously the amp can drive the 1266 or Joe wouldn’t have developed it for it.
> 
> ...



I actually have a formula s and powerman at my house currently. I am auditioning against the liquid platinum. I am just curious if anyone has compared the formula to other headphone amps. I really want a traformatic Primavera but it is beyond my comfort for a headphone amp at $15k. I would rather put that money towards a D'Agostino for my speakers.

I am really happy with the Bartok compared to my old TT2 though. I just need to sort out my amp situation and I am pretty set with headphones.
To think all of this started with watching  z review the lcd x. I got that and an idsd black label and now look where I am. This is a dangerous hobby.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Roasty said:


> How about the Woo Audio 33 JPS edition? I think that could be my tube end game..



I absolutely love that amp with these headphones! Every show or meet, if the pairing is there, I always make sure to stop by for 10 minutes just to listen to it....and I own the Phi TC!


----------



## jlbrach

CreditingKarma said:


> Is anyone using their TC with the formula s and powerman combo? What are your thought on it? I currently have the liquid platinum with my Bartok and might be able.to switch the Bartok for one with the headphone amp. Does the formula s leave anything to be desired in terms of driving the abyss? I know that it is the amp that jps prefers to pair with the TC.
> 
> Thanks in advance



the formula s/powerman is wonderful with the TC...black background, plenty of power...very detailed with a large soundstage...also great with the susvara.....


----------



## Roasty

Bonddam said:


> I switched from 1266 to Empyrean and there's a hum not controlled by volume. It's even there with the DAC off. This was not there with the 1266 maybe because of sensitivity so high on the Empyrean. This sucks because the veil is gone( compared to the mini). I have unplugged xlr to see if it was from power cord but it didn't go away. I do have the Formula S mounted on top of the Powerman. If that isn't the culprit I'm out of ideas. I should also mention the 1266 running off the 3 pin xlr outputs. the hum is on the 4 pin xlr. I'm going to test my other headphones. I tested my HEDDphone which is 87 db and it's hard to hear it but it's there on the 4 pin xlr.



Curious if u managed to work out that hum with the empy?


----------



## Bonddam

Roasty said:


> Curious if u managed to work out that hum with the empy?


Yes Joe gave me the steps. It ended up being my Hugo TT2 causing ground loop with the Formula S. It's okay because I have the Sagra DAC which is really good and no hum clean black background. The TT2 stays on my gsx mini and my ares 2 on the Pendant.


----------



## mahesvara

Roasty said:


> How about the Woo Audio 33 JPS edition? I think that could be my tube end game..



Not sure about the WA33 Standard Edition with JPS wiring, but I have the WA33 EE with JPS upgrade as custom order from Woo. I was told that Abyss will offer this on their site soon and if you want it, you can ask Joe.

You can find my impression of that amp here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woos-new-flagship-wa33.843710/page-35#post-15428387

I love how it sounds with Diana Phi.


----------



## Delacaff (Jan 31, 2020)

CreditingKarma said:


> Is anyone using their TC with the formula s and powerman combo? What are your thought on it? I currently have the liquid platinum with my Bartok and might be able.to switch the Bartok for one with the headphone amp. Does the formula s leave anything to be desired in terms of driving the abyss? I know that it is the amp that jps prefers to pair with the TC.
> 
> Thanks in advance



I own a complete XI Audio combo to listen to my TC. It matches the TC abilities in every ways IMHO.

In overall, it doesn't impose any sound character except those of the recording. I listen to Ben Harper, Taj Mahal and G-Love's music to test soundstage and timbres. These recordings are truly spectacular and remain so with the XI and Abyss combo. As the amp is very resolving and conveys an exemplary soundstage and accurate distinction of instruments, you can hear the acoustic of the room and the sound signature of each instruments : skin of the drums, strings of electric bass, natural reverbs of the slide guitar etc. Pure bliss. More about the soundstage: it is very close to your ears, as if musicians are playing right in front of you. I listened to the TC with the Riviera AIC10. This amp delivers a different scene with more distance between you and the musicians. It's a matter of taste.

The amp delivers a generous and stable amount of energy all across a wide bandwidth, especially in the lows which are Abyss' great specialty. Bass are very very well controlled and impactful. With pop music, dynamics are high and constant but the Amp is never lost, it is always in control. This is a fast amp. The only downside I see is with classical music where recording lacks dynamics most of the time. You will then have to max the volume level to get the thrill with symphonies (but this is my taste. I like to listen to symphonies at high volume levels). In this respect, I would have like a more powerful amp to have some extra juice but for all other genres and recordings, the Formula S is a no brainer.

Adding the Powerman brings a greater separation of instruments and a dead black sound background. The latter is very useful when pairing the Formula S with low sensitive headphones (TC or Susvara) because these types of cans requires to select the High Gain position of the amp which goes along with some hum.

The amp is very sensitive to cables (interconnect and power). You can reach an even greater holographic sound stage and meat in timbres pending the cables. Is it a downside or the character of great amps? Can't say but I see there the resolving asset of the amp, and the opportunity to manage upgrades at my own pace and budget. My next steps consist in cabling everything with JPS Labs cables (I trust these guys) : new RCA Superconductor 4 and Kaptovator. Joe uses Aluminata. I would love to hear the XI's in this config.

Final thoughts: I think that the Formula S and Powerman deliver a very generous amount of joy and pairs wonderfully well with the TC for a reasonable price tag. In the SS amp category, I would probably go for a Headtrip Reference or MassKobo headamp to reach more power (and have my Bank man behind me for the rest of my life). Or a speaker amp which is another option but it requires some care.

Hope that it helps.


----------



## Roasty

Delacaff said:


> Adding the Powerman brings a greater separation of instruments and a dead black sound background. The latter is very useful when pairing the Formula S with low sensitive headphones (TC or Susvara) because these types of cans requires to select the High Gain position of the amp which goes along with some hum.



So there is an audible hum with the TC when using high gain with the formula/powerman combo?


----------



## Delacaff (Jan 31, 2020)

Roasty said:


> So there is an audible hum with the TC when using high gain with the formula/powerman combo?



"Hum" was probably not the most appropriate word. It has more to do with the background sound. In High Gain position, every frequency is gaining many decibels. So is the background sound / frequency. The Formula is silent in Low gain position. Is "lesser" silent in High gain position. The Powerman supply turns the Formula S back to silence in High gain position.


----------



## Roasty

Delacaff said:


> "Hum" was probably not the appropriate word. It has more to do with the background sound. In High Gain position, every frequency is gaining many decibels. So is the background sound / frequency. The Formula is silent in Low gain position. Is "lesser" silent in High gain position. The Powerman supply turns the Formula S back to silence in High gain position.



Thanks for the clarification. I do on occasion use the TC with the Benchmark HPA4 and it does have a dead silent background, even up to when the volume is pushed unbearably loud. Have not heard the Formula amp myself; really wish I could, and hear for myself if there was any big diff between it and the HPA4.


----------



## Delacaff

Roasty said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I do on occasion use the TC with the Benchmark HPA4 and it does have a dead silent background, even up to when the volume is pushed unbearably loud. Have not heard the Formula amp myself; really wish I could, and hear for myself if there was any big diff between it and the HPA4.



I assume that the the HPA4 shares a lot with the XI combo : a lot of power with very resolving ability. I think that for these types of amps, the choice of DAC is critical : Being very analytical, your listening experience may be boring and fatiguing. Being more on the analog side, these amps will convey the DAC personality straight to the cans.


----------



## Abyss Headphones




----------



## tholt

Delacaff said:


> I own a complete XI Audio combo to listen to my TC. It matches the TC abilities in every ways IMHO.
> 
> In overall, it doesn't impose any sound character except those of the recording. I listen to Ben Harper, Taj Mahal and G-Love's music to test soundstage and timbres. These recordings are truly spectacular and remain so with the XI and Abyss combo. As the amp is very resolving and conveys an exemplary soundstage and accurate distinction of instruments, you can hear the acoustic of the room and the sound signature of each instruments : skin of the drums, strings of electric bass, natural reverbs of the slide guitar etc. Pure bliss. More about the soundstage: it is very close to your ears, as if musicians are playing right in front of you. I listened to the TC with the Riviera AIC10. This amp delivers a different scene with more distance between you and the musicians. It's a matter of taste.
> 
> ...



Great write up. I disagree that opinions don't matter. I like to read what others think as it provides information and perspective, especially if given in this level of detail.


----------



## F208Frank (Jan 31, 2020)

I wish the TC and the LCD4 were easier to compare as to which is "better" lol.

After reading some of the previous posts on head-fi some have had it really easy to be able to say that the TC is much better, but to me it isn't that easy to say.

It does seem that the TC is overall a more balanced all around type of headphone though.

The LCD-4 mids are just so unique though.

The beauty of this game, lol.


----------



## JLoud (Jan 31, 2020)

I love the mids  on my LCD-4. It's why I can't/won't part with it. It hangs right next to my TC, within easy reach, so whichever one strikes my mood.


----------



## CreditingKarma

JLoud said:


> I love the miss on my LCD-4. It's why I can't/won't part with it. It hangs right next to my TC, within easy reach, so whichever one strikes my mood.



You can always try to add some of the mids in with eq on the ABYSS. I don't miss my lcd 4z at all though. I borrowed the entire lcd 4 line including the 24 and found them to sound veiled. For me there is no going back.


----------



## JLoud

I agree. I won't be parting with either of my LCD-4 or TC anytime soon. But everyone hears/enjoys things differently. I personally like how both sound. Although I will say I do use the Reveal Audeze plugin.


----------



## jlbrach

Roasty said:


> So there is an audible hum with the TC when using high gain with the formula/powerman combo?



none that I have ever heard with either the tc or susvara


----------



## tholt

CreditingKarma said:


> I actually have a formula s and powerman at my house currently. I am auditioning against the liquid platinum.



How is this comparison? I briefly auditioned the LP out of curiosity knowing I could return (which I did). I thought it was surprisingly good with the 1266 considering cost and horrible build quality, but at best a stopgap before finding a better amp. Is the Formula S and Powerman not significantly better? How do they compare?


----------



## Àedhàn Cassiel

How plausible would it be to grab an Abyss, as a complement to an HD800 and Verite Closed, mostly for extreme tech death / black-influenced metal?


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jan 31, 2020)

Àedhàn Cassiel said:


> How plausible would it be to grab an Abyss, as a complement to an HD800 and Verite Closed, mostly for extreme tech death / black-influenced metal?


I’m a big, big extreme metal fan. I listen to death, doom, grind, and black nearly every day.

I haven’t heard the Verite Cs, but I had the HD800s in the past. The TCs murder the HD800s.

The TCs are absolutely the best headphones I’ve ever heard for extreme metal. They are almost perfect. I can’t recommend them enough for metal (and hip-hop, my other favorite genre)

Try them out on the new Blood Incantation, some Tomb Mold, and the latest Cerebral Rot and the new Gatecreeper


----------



## Àedhàn Cassiel (Jan 31, 2020)

The part that threw me off is that previously the LCD-4 was my favorite for this stuff. The dark treble meant I could blast the guitars and guttural vocals without my ears being murdered by the treble at those volumes. And... everyone talks about the mids on the LCD-4, but the Abyss is described as U-shaped.


----------



## NZtechfreak

The TC tonal balance is different than the OG where some people felt there was some suckout in the mids. I listen to lots of metal, cannot speak highly enough of the Abyss for metal.


----------



## Àedhàn Cassiel

NZtechfreak said:


> The TC tonal balance is different than the OG where some people felt there was some suckout in the mids. I listen to lots of metal, cannot speak highly enough of the Abyss for metal.



I see. Is it just the TC that changed that, or did the other revisions at least start addressing it earlier? I'll be studying the revisions and watching the used market closely...


----------



## NZtechfreak

Not sure, I believe the Phi went some of the way towards this, but no doubt others can confirm this one way or the other.


----------



## JLoud

I had the Phi before the TC. The Phi had decent midrange but it was still the weakest point. Not bad or anything, just not it’s strength. I feel the TC pretty much fixed it. While the bass and treble details are still it’s greatest strength, the midrange can hold its own. But they are not as sweet as the LCD4.


----------



## matthewhypolite

The phi fixed alot of what I thought was wrong with the OG, and the phi with cc pads cleaned things up even more. 

I feel like I'd be happy with phi cc or tc. They are both great.


----------



## tholt (Jan 31, 2020)

Àedhàn Cassiel said:


> I see. Is it just the TC that changed that, or did the other revisions at least start addressing it earlier? I'll be studying the revisions and watching the used market closely...



I had the OG w/ CC pads and upgraded to Phi CC. From the very first second I put on the Phi CC I noticed a marked improvement. It was smoother and more refined, less grain and less bite at the top, and the mids -- which I felt were the weakest point with the OG (too thin) -- were much improved. I still think the Phi CC mids can sound a bit thin sounding and the top a tad bright at times, which is why I love tubes with it. Have not heard the TC so can't vouch for improvement vs Phi CC.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Àedhàn Cassiel said:


> The part that threw me off is that previously the LCD-4 was my favorite for this stuff. The dark treble meant I could blast the guitars and guttural vocals without my ears being murdered by the treble at those volumes. And... everyone talks about the mids on the LCD-4, but the Abyss is described as U-shaped.



Who said the Abyss Phi or Phi TC are U shaped? Maybe the OG had a tendency towards this...but not the newer version. Nothing could be further from the truth with the Phi TC...most speaker-like headphones around? Sure...but please don't confuse world class bass quality and extended treble as U shaped. Their mids are seriously balanced and beautiful...but they do require some real power and a source up for the task.


----------



## DrummerLeo

Àedhàn Cassiel said:


> How plausible would it be to grab an Abyss, as a complement to an HD800 and Verite Closed, mostly for extreme tech death / black-influenced metal?


I am a metal fan too. I mainly listen to metalcore, deathcore, thrash, and Djent (so sometimes I am classified as a punk guy, that's sad). For these genres, I think 1266 is the end-game headphones. The only downside of using 1266 for metals is that frequent headbanging with 1266 on your head can cause serious neck injury.


----------



## MacedonianHero

DrummerLeo said:


> I am a metal fan too. I mainly listen to metalcore, deathcore, thrash, and Djent (so sometimes I am classified as a punk guy, that's sad). For these genres, I think 1266 is the end-game headphones. The only downside of using 1266 for metals is that frequent headbanging with 1266 on your head can cause serious neck injury.



I would 86 the HD800 and go with the 1266 + VC.


----------



## tholt

DrummerLeo said:


> The only downside of using 1266 for metals is that frequent headbanging with 1266 on your head can cause serious neck injury.


 How do you even headbang w/them on? They're 1) heavy and 2) fairly loose. The most I can do is a very tame head bob  Any more and they'd fly off!


----------



## NZtechfreak

tholt said:


> How do you even headbang w/them on? They're 1) heavy and 2) fairly loose. The most I can do is a very tame head bob  Any more and they'd fly off!



Yeah, I settle for a head bob and throwin up the goat


----------



## DrummerLeo

tholt said:


> How do you even headbang w/them on? They're 1) heavy and 2) fairly loose. The most I can do is a very tame head bob  Any more and they'd fly off!


Hold the metal frame! I think that was designed for this situation, am I right?


----------



## tholt

DrummerLeo said:


> Hold the metal frame! I think that was designed for this situation, am I right?


 How would I do that? Takes two hands to air drum!


----------



## BrowChan (Feb 6, 2020)

Deleted.


----------



## F208Frank (Feb 6, 2020)

Anyone tried the dac 3 by benchmark into the WA33?

I assume this is not a popular pairing? Been looking to add a Tube AMP to my gear and the variations of the WA33 are so confusing.

If I get a jps labs edition (I do own the TC) I feel like in future it may not be as versatile since its geared and made for the TC. But then again I love the TC so much, good analogy is I want to marry but I know divorce rate is high type thought. Mistresses and burner phones always in my mind. Know what I mean.

What do you all think?

Which variation of the WA33 would you get?

Elite to stay versatile
JPS Standard to be locked to TC
Elite with JPS is out of my budget.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Feb 6, 2020)

F208Frank said:


> Anyone tried the dac 3 by benchmark into the WA33?
> 
> I assume this is not a popular pairing? Been looking to add a Tube AMP to my gear and the variations of the WA33 are so confusing.
> 
> ...


I have the standard WA33. I absolutely love it. I pair it with a DAVE, which I think mixes really, really well together.

that being said, I am considering jumping up to the Elite version this year. I don’t know how things could sound better than the normal version, but I want to find out. I’m sure the JPS version sounds amazing, but I’m a bit concerned it would only really benefit the TCs. Aluminoy probably sounds good with multiple headphones, but I can’t be sure. For $12K for the standard wa33 with Aluminoy, I think it just makes more sense to spend $3k extra and get the WA33 Elite edition


----------



## F208Frank (Feb 7, 2020)

When you said jumping to elite, do you mean selling the standard and rebuying elite or they can upgrade the standard to elite?

Just making sure. Thanks.

I myself am eyeing either elite or the jps version brand new.


----------



## joseph69

F208Frank said:


> Been looking to add a Tube AMP to my gear and the variations of the WA33 are so confusing. If I get a jps labs edition (I do own the TC) I feel like in future it may not be as versatile since its geared and made for the TC. What do you all think?



The JPS Edition WA33 isn't geared specifically for the TC. As mentioned on their (JPS Labs) site;

"Abyss Headphone considers the WA33 JPS Labs Edition to be the finest headphone tube amplifier money can buy to mate with their AB-1288 Phi TC headphone* or any other high performance headphones that appreciates high dynamic power and grace*." 

Many use both, the WA33  SE & EE paired with their TC (as well as other headphones) and absolutely love the pairing. 
I own the WA33 SE w/upgraded tubes and it sounds amazing too me with my other headphones. I also had a couple of friends over 2 weekends ago and one of them bought his TC & Susvara (I used to own the Susvara) and listened with my WA33 and we all enjoyed both very, very much.



Ciggavelli said:


> * I’m sure the JPS version sounds amazing, but I’m a bit concerned it would only really benefit the TCs.* For $12K for the standard wa33 with Aluminoy, I think it just makes more sense to spend $3k extra and get the WA33 Elite edition



Read my reply to @F208Frank regarding the above in bold.
Also, don't forget, the JPS Edition for $12K comes with upgraded tubes, so if you add in the cost of the upgraded tubes (which I haven't) is it worth the extra $3K for the WA33 EE (which comes with standard tubes) knowing that you're definitely going to upgrade them?


----------



## Ciggavelli

F208Frank said:


> When you said jumping to elite, donyou mean selling the standard and debuting elite or they can upgrade the standard to elite?
> 
> Just making sure. Thanks.
> 
> I myself am eyeing either elite or the jps version brand new.


yeah, I mean selling or trading in my SE (according to the Woo Audio website, they will give $4K on a trade in). 




joseph69 said:


> The JPS Edition WA33 isn't geared specifically for the TC. As mentioned on their (JPS Labs) site;
> 
> "Abyss Headphone considers the WA33 JPS Labs Edition to be the finest headphone tube amplifier money can buy to mate with their AB-1288 Phi TC headphone* or any other high performance headphones that appreciates high dynamic power and grace*."
> 
> ...



that’s interesting. My upgraded tubes cost around $4K (see my signature for the tubes I have). so,you’d really be paying like $19K for the EE addition. Given that, the JPS edition might be a better deal than I initially thought.

BTW, I think the upgraded tubes are definitely needed. The stock sound good, but the upgrade sound great


----------



## JLoud

Ciggavelli said:


> yeah, I mean selling or trading in my SE (according to the Woo Audio website, they will give $4K on a trade in).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you decide to sell your WA33 pm me. I will give you the 4K. And even cover PayPal fees.


----------



## F208Frank

JLoud said:


> If you decide to sell your WA33 pm me. I will give you the 4K. And even cover PayPal fees.


Lol yeah help another head-fier bro. 4K trade in. Nah.

Head-fi bro love. Yeah. ^_^

I'm looking to buying mine new, so I'm bleeding tons of green.


----------



## F208Frank (Feb 7, 2020)

Welps. Looks like WA33 Elite with Upgraded Tubes on way to me...

Tubes:
Takatsuki 274B
4 x KR 2A3HP's
4 x Gold Harmonix 6C45's

Basically everything same as JPS edition upgraded tubes except the rectifier. Anyone trial the differences between the KR rectifier versus the Takatsuki?

Pretty excited to say the least.


----------



## attmci

joseph69 said:


> The JPS Edition WA33 isn't geared specifically for the TC. As mentioned on their (JPS Labs) site;
> 
> "Abyss Headphone considers the WA33 JPS Labs Edition to be the finest headphone tube amplifier money can buy to mate with their AB-1288 Phi TC headphone* or any other high performance headphones that appreciates high dynamic power and grace*."
> 
> ...


I always try not to purchase upgrades tubes from the amp manufacture.


----------



## supervisor

IF you like electronic music AND you own Abyss Phi TC, you should LOVE this:

https://tidal.com/browse/album/125059371


----------



## joseph69

attmci said:


> I always try not to purchase upgrades tubes from the amp manufacture.


I only purchased the UE 596 adapter & EH 6C45Pi's from Woo. I purchased the EML 2A3 (solid plates)  due to their 5yr  limited warranty, and I already had a few 596's from owning the WA6 for +/-5yrs.


----------



## F208Frank

attmci said:


> I always try not to purchase upgrades tubes from the amp manufacture.


What is reason for this?


----------



## astrostar59 (Feb 8, 2020)

Anyone know any active headphone forums in the EU zone?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Àedhàn Cassiel said:


> How plausible would it be to grab an Abyss, as a complement to an HD800 and Verite Closed, mostly for extreme tech death / black-influenced metal?



I owned all these (or headphonbes similar to them). The abyss is BY FAR the best headphone for metal, in my opinion.


----------



## F208Frank (Feb 8, 2020)

Just got the SC cables, compared to the stock, seems to bring forward the mids a bit, but at the expense of losing some slight detail. Hard for me to choose which is "better" but majority across the board say the SC cables are better overall. Anyone happen to like the stock cables more? One thing I noticed in the SC cables was that it made the treble more bearable on some songs as I am pretty treble sensitive.

Edit: While listening for a little longer, leaning towards the SC cables being my go to.


----------



## astrostar59

Let in run in more, it will then reach peak performance.


----------



## attmci

F208Frank said:


> What is reason for this?


Due to the premium charge.


----------



## Jon L

So I was contemplating how to introduce some of that 300B tube goodness into SMSL SP200 THX AAA amp, which BTW I love for its ridiculous clarity.  
I dusted off my heavily modified Transcendent Grounded Grid tube preamp (shunt mode, V Cap Teflons, etc) and fed the SMSL, and Voila! Proverbial best of both worlds..
Those with quality tube preamps should give this a try with SMSL.




0208201608 by drjlo2, on Flickr




0208201601 by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## astrostar59

I agree, tubes do some magic things, especially with highly revealing headphones. V-Caps Teflons are good in a PS or coupling position, I have used them in some DAC builds, but they can sound a bit cold, though highly transparent and fast. They also take forever to burn in, and need another burn if it unused for month on end.

In the end I preferred Duelund Copper Cast bypassed with tiny Duelund silver. Brings a bit or warmth without loosing any details. Other things to try in a DIY build are Audio Note tantalum resistors, quite a cheap upgrade depending how many you use. I bumped up from 1/2W to 1W in my DIY DAC build.

Can your 300B amp power the Abyss ok? How's it sound?


----------



## tunes

llamaluv said:


> LOL, design fail on top of design fail.


Now that you have the Abyss TC, did you ever compare it to the Susvara or HEKse driven by the     Benchmark HPA4?


----------



## llamaluv

tunes said:


> Now that you have the Abyss TC, did you ever compare it to the Susvara or HEKse driven by the     Benchmark HPA4?



I had the AHB2 speaker amp, not the HPA4 headphone amp. Unfortunately I sold it before getting the TC, but I have a feeling that the TC would sound great with it (the AHB2), and that it might synergize even better than with the Susvara, for instance.

Reason being is that I felt the AHB2 had a kind of "dynamic ceiling" in general (and not just with the Susvara). But because the TC is so naturally strong when it comes to dynamics, this might not be as much of an issue, thus letting the strengths of the AHB2 to come out with less of its limitations dragging it down (ie, sounding a lil "polite"). 

This is just speculation, though. Also, I can't say if driving the TC or other planars off the headphone amp version versus the AHB2 speaker amp would result in the same listening experience. Subtle differences in the resulting sonic signature between the two could easily tip the scales in one direction or another. People tend to assume (ie, speculate) that they'd sound essentially the same, but I'd have to hear them side-by-side to be properly convinced.

On the question of resulting tonality (and also, relatedly, of "tonal density") of the TC with one of the two Benchmark amps, that to me is an even more complicated question to reason about without hearing them in person. Aaand now I'm curious again...


----------



## Hoegaardener70

So, here is my feedback to the Abyss ab-1266 TC. When I got it, I was deeply into the hobby of comparing headphones, and I owned at that moment the Utopia, Empy, Z1R and HD800S. I had heard the TC at CanJam and knew by then that I wanted to compare it to my setup, and somehow had assumed that my one-minute fascination with the TC would pass and that I would sell it after a couple of weeks with hopefully not too much loss. 

Fast forward six months, and i still own the TC and have sold all the other headphones above. In the end, the TC is the most fun headphone while still being analytical. There is a raw power to it for metal, and it is dynamic and insightful for classic; in short, there is nothing else out there which can match it as a “one for all” endgame headphone. I do occasionally miss certain traits of the other phones - the unmatched crazy resolution of the utopia for classical music and the Empy’s comfort- but the overall level of immersiveness, soundstage and quality (and quantity!) of bass really make it something special.

In addition to the open TC, I have a closed Stellia (which gives me some characteristics of the Utopia which I miss), and this headphone search is over. Nice, because I can now focus on my music .


----------



## Jon L

astrostar59 said:


> Can your 300B amp power the Abyss ok? How's it sound?



My Elekit 300B amp sounds fantastic with Abyss, especially after I rolled in some Jupiter Copper Foil coupling caps.  It uses some non-traditional approach for 300B SET such as cathode feedback.  It is more detailed with tighter and more dynamic bass than most other SS amps I've tried.
Then again, I have to manually connect/disconnect the Abyss leads and speaker cables every time I want to switch from headphones to speakers, so I need another option.


----------



## tunes

Hoegaardener70 said:


> So, here is my feedback to the Abyss ab-1266 TC. When I got it, I was deeply into the hobby of comparing headphones, and I owned at that moment the Utopia, Empy, Z1R and HD800S. I had heard the TC at CanJam and knew by then that I wanted to compare it to my setup, and somehow had assumed that my one-minute fascination with the TC would pass and that I would sell it after a couple of weeks with hopefully not too much loss.
> 
> Fast forward six months, and i still own the TC and have sold all the other headphones above. In the end, the TC is the most fun headphone while still being analytical. There is a raw power to it for metal, and it is dynamic and insightful for classic; in short, there is nothing else out there which can match it as a “one for all” endgame headphone. I do occasionally miss certain traits of the other phones - the unmatched crazy resolution of the utopia for classical music and the Empy’s comfort- but the overall level of immersiveness, soundstage and quality (and quantity!) of bass really make it something special.
> 
> In addition to the open TC, I have a closed Stellia (which gives me some characteristics of the Utopia which I miss), and this headphone search is over. Nice, because I can now focus on my music .


Curious as to which amp and DAC you used for your comparisons.  Does the TC beat out the HD800S in all dimensions of the sound space?  I thought maybe you would keep the bargain HD800s for that occasional pit of head experience.


----------



## tunes

llamaluv said:


> I had the AHB2 speaker amp, not the HPA4 headphone amp. Unfortunately I sold it before getting the TC, but I have a feeling that the TC would sound great with it (the AHB2), and that it might synergize even better than with the Susvara, for instance.
> 
> Reason being is that I felt the AHB2 had a kind of "dynamic ceiling" in general (and not just with the Susvara). But because the TC is so naturally strong when it comes to dynamics, this might not be as much of an issue, thus letting the strengths of the AHB2 to come out with less of its limitations dragging it down (ie, sounding a lil "polite").
> 
> ...



It’s interesting that the AHB2 and HPA4 are so close in price.  Some say the HPA4 has more than enough headroom and dynamic push to drive either the TC or Susvara. Others seem to think the Susvara needs more power.   I hope both will be at the Benchmark booth at tha NYC CanJam this weekend.  On another note, if you had to pick one over the other (Susvara vs TC) as an all time favorite for Jazz, female vocals and some Rock/Pop, which one could you part with?   I know it’s a tough question.  

Thanks and have fun this weekend.  Hopefully one of these days we can meet.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

tunes said:


> Curious as to which amp and DAC you used for your comparisons.  Does the TC beat out the HD800S in all dimensions of the sound space?  I thought maybe you would keep the bargain HD800s for that occasional pit of head experience.



I used my Hugo2 paired with an ifi Pro iCan for all my comparisons. The ifi amp in tube mode is a perfect partner for the HD800S since the bass circuit evens out the biggest weakness of the HD800S.
In short: it was (like with all phones) very hard to let go the HD800S because of the wonderful soundstage and also comfort in comparison to the abyss. But in the end, i decided that the HD800S lacks the visceral I impact of the abyss. This special oomph became a very integral part of the listening experience that I decided I could let go of the HD800S. But yes, for a classical music listener only, the sennheiser is a worthy contender for a friction of the price of current headphones, but only with xbass.


----------



## jlbrach

tunes said:


> It’s interesting that the AHB2 and HPA4 are so close in price.  Some say the HPA4 has more than enough headroom and dynamic push to drive either the TC or Susvara. Others seem to think the Susvara needs more power.   I hope both will be at the Benchmark booth at tha NYC CanJam this weekend.  On another note, if you had to pick one over the other (Susvara vs TC) as an all time favorite for Jazz, female vocals and some Rock/Pop, which one could you part with?   I know it’s a tough question.
> 
> Thanks and have fun this weekend.  Hopefully one of these days we can meet.



I find that whichever one I listen to last is the one I consider best which is another way of saying the susvara and TC are both so good that it is impossible to pick.....I do find the susvara easier to wear and more comfortable so there is that of course but the TC is just such an incredible and different experience....for the most part I find jazz best with the susvara and classic rock best with the TC but in reality both are simply wonderful with every type of music....I adjust my chord dave volume into my formula s/powerman and when I use the susvara the dave is at -3 and when I use the TC it is at -7


----------



## ken6217

F208Frank said:


> Welps. Looks like WA33 Elite with Upgraded Tubes on way to me...
> 
> Tubes:
> Takatsuki 274B
> ...



I can’t speak for the difference in the rectifier tubes, but as far as 300B tubes, the KR audio sounds much better than the Takatsuki.


----------



## attmci (Feb 10, 2020)

joseph69 said:


> I only purchased the UE 596 adapter & EH 6C45Pi's from Woo. I purchased the EML 2A3 (solid plates)  due to their 5yr  limited warranty, and I already had a few 596's from owning the WA6 for +/-5yrs.


I was looking for a 596 adapter and found you sold it long time ago. I highly doubt W O O had purchased all the 596s several years ago, and drives the price to crazy level.  Do you think the 596 is a $350 rectifier tube???


----------



## Hoegaardener70

astrostar59 said:


> Anyone know any active headphone forums in the EU zone?


If you have the patience to google translate, there is a good German forum: https://www.open-end-music.de/vb3/


----------



## joseph69

attmci said:


> I was looking for a 596 adapter and found you sold it long time ago. I highly doubt W O O had purchased all the 596s several years ago, and drives the price to crazy level.  Do you think the 596 is a $350 rectifier tube???


I sold my 596 adapter from Glenn and purchased the Woo adapter.
I've also had my 596 rectifier tubes ($150.00 each) since buying my WA6 +/-5yrs ago, and I'm still using my very first 596 out of the few that I have in my WA33 now. Why are you questioning "Do you think the 596 is a $350.00 rectifier tube???" 
The question is, do you?  Not quite sure I understand where you're going with your reply?



attmci said:


> I highly doubt W O O had purchased all the 596s several years ago, and drives the price to crazy level.


?


----------



## joseph69

NVM


----------



## Arniesb

llamaluv said:


> I had the AHB2 speaker amp, not the HPA4 headphone amp. Unfortunately I sold it before getting the TC, but I have a feeling that the TC would sound great with it (the AHB2), and that it might synergize even better than with the Susvara, for instance.
> 
> Reason being is that I felt the AHB2 had a kind of "dynamic ceiling" in general (and not just with the Susvara). But because the TC is so naturally strong when it comes to dynamics, this might not be as much of an issue, thus letting the strengths of the AHB2 to come out with less of its limitations dragging it down (ie, sounding a lil "polite").
> 
> ...


Yet to hear speaker amp or headphone amp with switched power supply that sound great.


----------



## tunes

Arniesb said:


> Yet to hear speaker amp or headphone amp with switched power supply that sound great.


So you are saying that both the Benchmark amps have switched power supplies and therefore are not as good as other amps that do not use a switched power supply?


----------



## Arniesb

tunes said:


> So you are saying that both the Benchmark amps have switched power supplies and therefore are not as good as other amps that do not use a switched power supply?


There is a reason that vast mojority amps be it power amps or head amps use linear amps.
Switched supply is just all marketing bs.
Switched supplies require much less space and much less expense thus increasing profit.


----------



## llamaluv

Arniesb said:


> Yet to hear speaker amp or headphone amp with switched power supply that sound great.


That's fine but what about the AHB2 or HPA4 in specific? Just curious...


----------



## joseph69

@attmci 
Where else can you can buy a UE 596 betides Woo???
Maybe on where and there, but good luck buying from another vendor.


----------



## attmci (Feb 11, 2020)

joseph69 said:


> @attmci
> Where else can you can buy a UE 596 betides Woo???
> Maybe on where and there, but good luck buying from another vendor.


I have been using a WE422 and always curious about the mighty 596. I have a number of 1641/RK60s, and want to learn the difference between these rectifiers.

The 596 ($350) has to be very good and beat the 1641 (~$40) which is still very cheap. Still waiting for an adapter for the 596.


----------



## Roasty

Past few days with gsx mini + 1266. On high gain, lots of headroom for volume. Am at the 11 o'clock position on the volume knob and it is plenty loud. 

The overall signature to me is the mini is a very very slightly "warm" sound, maybe just a small notch left of neutral. Not dull not thick not bloated. Lots of detail up top without sounding thin or bright. Bass is punchy and fast, well controlled. 

It does however have a more L and R stereo feel to the soundstage compared to a more 3d feel of my tube amp. I also prefer the vocals from the tube amp; it just sounds more lifelike and organic with tubes. 

The wa22 will remain my amp of choice at home to pair with the 1266. The mini will probably head to the office with a closed Verite.


----------



## F208Frank

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

This weeks video we talk about frequency response measurements...


----------



## joseph69

attmci said:


> I have been using a WE422 and always curious about the mighty 596. I have a number of 1641/RK60s, and want to learn the difference between these rectifiers.
> 
> The 596 ($350) has to be very good and beat the 1641 (~$40) which is still very cheap. Still waiting for an adapter for the 596.


I meant maybe 1 (596) here & there for sale.
Who's adapter are you waiting for, Woo?
If you want we could trade rectifiers for a week or so. I've never heard the WE422.
I've done this with @llamaluv and it worked out fine and we got to hear each others rectifiers without making a blind purchase. PM me if you're interested.


----------



## attmci

joseph69 said:


> I meant maybe 1 (596) here & there for sale.
> Who's adapter are you waiting for, Woo?
> If you want we could trade rectifiers for a week or so. I've never heard the WE422.
> I've done this with @llamaluv and it worked out fine and we got to hear each others rectifiers without making a blind purchase. PM me if you're interested.


Joe, thanks for the offer. I do have all the tubes. Deyan is making an adapter for me. I was lucky enough to find him from the east bay a couple of years ago.


----------



## joseph69

attmci said:


> Joe, thanks for the offer. I do have all the tubes. Deyan is making an adapter for me. I was lucky enough to find him from the east bay a couple of years ago.


Ah, okay.
Let me know what you think about the 596 after sufficient burn in.


----------



## astrostar59

Anyone going to Munich High End?


----------



## F208Frank

So my wife woke up and laughed at me as I was listening to my headphones. I asked why.

She pointed to my head at the Abyss (her first time seeing the headphone) and laughed some more.

I forgot how weird looking this headphone is but I do not care at all, the headphone is an amazing item, and I will cherish it forever. That bass, wow. That clarity, wow. The emotional pulls, whoa.


----------



## tunes

llamaluv said:


> I had the AHB2 speaker amp, not the HPA4 headphone amp. Unfortunately I sold it before getting the TC, but I have a feeling that the TC would sound great with it (the AHB2), and that it might synergize even better than with the Susvara, for instance.
> 
> Reason being is that I felt the AHB2 had a kind of "dynamic ceiling" in general (and not just with the Susvara). But because the TC is so naturally strong when it comes to dynamics, this might not be as much of an issue, thus letting the strengths of the AHB2 to come out with less of its limitations dragging it down (ie, sounding a lil "polite").
> 
> ...


Have you heard the JOT-R amp yet with the SR1a??  Impressions compared to likes of Bryston?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Roasty said:


> Past few days with gsx mini + 1266. On high gain, lots of headroom for volume. Am at the 11 o'clock position on the volume knob and it is plenty loud.
> 
> The overall signature to me is the mini is a very very slightly "warm" sound, maybe just a small notch left of neutral. Not dull not thick not bloated. Lots of detail up top without sounding thin or bright. Bass is punchy and fast, well controlled.
> 
> ...



Really? I liked the WA22 (when I owned it) with Grados or the HD800, but I was never a fan with it and orthos. I always felt it left the HE-6, Abyss, etc..a bit starved for dynamics and punch. YMMV of course.  The WA33 with orthos however is amazing!


----------



## Roasty

MacedonianHero said:


> Really? I liked the WA22 (when I owned it) with Grados or the HD800, but I was never a fan with it and orthos. I always felt it left the HE-6, Abyss, etc..a bit starved for dynamics and punch. YMMV of course.  The WA33 with orthos however is amazing!



Yea I quite like the WA22 and I think i have a good selection of tubes which do sound a lot better than stock tubes. love the bass texture and punchiness it gives with the 1266. the mids and highs are super sweet with mullard ecc35 tubes. but I must say I am thinking more and more about the wa33 JPS edition... I like that it comes with the JPS wiring and upgraded tube set. also thinking of the JPS SC cables for the 1266 and add it to ultrashort adaptors to use with my other cans.. hmmmm


----------



## MacedonianHero (Feb 13, 2020)

Roasty said:


> Yea I quite like the WA22 and I think i have a good selection of tubes which do sound a lot better than stock tubes. love the bass texture and punchiness it gives with the 1266. the mids and highs are super sweet with mullard ecc35 tubes. but I must say I am thinking more and more about the wa33 JPS edition... I like that it comes with the JPS wiring and upgraded tube set. also thinking of the JPS SC cables for the 1266 and add it to ultrashort adaptors to use with my other cans.. hmmmm



Mine had some really tricked out tubes as well (all NOS and hardly around anymore) too! I think my tubes cost more than the amp itself.  They made it a great amp for non-ortho headphones. That said, I'm glad you found what you like...in the end that's what matters.


----------



## tunes (Feb 14, 2020)

MacedonianHero said:


> Mine had some really tricked out tubes as well (all NOS and hardly around anymore) too! I think my tubes cost more than the amp itself.  They made it a great amp for non-ortho headphones. That said, I'm glad you found what you like...in the end that's what matters.


Has anyone compared the TC or Susvara to the SR1a?  I know it’s a different experience but can the SR1a really compete as a stand alone TOTL can for the non heavy metal types?


----------



## llamaluv (Feb 14, 2020)

tunes said:


> Have you heard the JOT-R amp yet with the SR1a??  Impressions compared to likes of Bryston?



Unfortunately I haven't, as I got rid of the SR1a in the Fall of last year.



tunes said:


> Has anyone compared the TC or Susvara to the SR1a?  I know it’s a different experience but can the SR1a really compete as a stand alone TOTL can for the non heavy metal types?



IMO the SR1a can most definitely compete, especially when framed in the way you put it (for non-heavy metal types). It scales like crazy, and presents qualities like detail, separation, and soundstage as well as anything, but in its own unique way, which can be very compelling. So long as one's system isn't too bright, it has definite end-game potential. Having said that, it was ultimately too bright for me long-term.  I still love what it does though.


----------



## NZtechfreak

I really liked the SR1A for the 90 minutes I auditioned it, the lacking bass was a deal breaker for me - songs with a deep bass foundation sounded wrong (metal far from the only genre that suffered).


----------



## astrostar59

IMO the RAAL SR1a is what it has come from, probably the world's best high frequency transducer, seen in many top end speakers. Making this same design more or less, to do full range is the challenge. I think it excels in it's 'bandwidth', but falls down quickly in weight, dynamics and essentially bass detail. If you can look beyond those aspects, then it is a great headphone. In my auditions with it, I can't ignore those weaknesses. YMMV.


----------



## astrostar59

The RAAL reminds me in many ways of my first foray into Stax and the Lambda series. I hung on with that range for many years, going through the various models. Ultimately when I found modern planars, it was, thank God, finally real bass! Then later with the Abyss, speed and detail along with realistic bass. PLUS that huge soundstage.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I have a JotR and my SR1a comes in next week.  We'll see how it is.  I'm a big basshead, so I guess I'm gonna have to EQ and see what happens


----------



## Jon L

Ciggavelli said:


> I have a JotR and my SR1a comes in next week.  We'll see how it is.  I'm a big basshead, so I guess I'm gonna have to EQ and see what happens


Ribbons do actually stretch permanently if overdriven, so I would take that EQ in steps, especially if you plan to "basshead" very loudly 

I do wonder if it's a possibility to have both a ribbon (treble) and a planar driver (bass) in the same headphone, kind of like certain Magnepan speakers...


----------



## BrowChan

Ciggavelli said:


> I have a JotR and my SR1a comes in next week.  We'll see how it is.  I'm a big basshead, so I guess I'm gonna have to EQ and see what happens


Torq picked the SR1a (with EQed bass) over the Abyss. Looking forward to your impressions since you're a basshead too!


----------



## NZtechfreak

From memory measurements of the SR1A showed increased distortion in the bass from 100Hz down, on face value I wouldn't have thought it the best target for EQ in that region (noting of course that I haven't heard it EQ'd). At 100dB was hitting excursion limits for the driver at 30Hz, wonder if hits those limits sooner when EQ'd up...


----------



## BrowChan

NZtechfreak said:


> From memory measurements of the SR1A showed increased distortion in the bass from 100Hz down, on face value I wouldn't have thought it the best target for EQ in that region (noting of course that I haven't heard it EQ'd). At 100dB was hitting excursion limits for the driver at 30Hz, wonder if hits those limits sooner when EQ'd up...


Need more power, maybe? It is a speaker AMP requiring 'phone, afterall. 

I wonder if anyone tried feeding it more power than the suggested rate.


----------



## Marco_tam

I was wondering what interconnects are you guys using with the Abyss?

I feel like for my system I could something like silver that could provide fast, detailed sound. But since Abyss is not a dark sound headphone, I'm afraid with silver it'll make things too exciting...


----------



## Roasty

Marco_tam said:


> I was wondering what interconnects are you guys using with the Abyss?
> 
> I feel like for my system I could something like silver that could provide fast, detailed sound. But since Abyss is not a dark sound headphone, I'm afraid with silver it'll make things too exciting...



I have been using some Chord Shawline XLR interconnects. They weren't exactly cheap, but of course there are also a lot more other expensive options. 

Then decided to try some cheaper interconnects from amazon using the Canare L-4E6S cable and Amphenol plugs. 

Did quick a/b testing and I couldn't hear the difference...


----------



## ekfc63

NZtechfreak said:


> From memory measurements of the SR1A showed increased distortion in the bass from 100Hz down, on face value I wouldn't have thought it the best target for EQ in that region (noting of course that I haven't heard it EQ'd). At 100dB was hitting excursion limits for the driver at 30Hz, wonder if hits those limits sooner when EQ'd up...



100dB.  Wow.  That’s hearing damage territory


----------



## NZtechfreak

ekfc63 said:


> 100dB.  Wow.  That’s hearing damage territory



The person measuring them ran them at that volume in testing, not listening volume.


----------



## Jon L

Marco_tam said:


> I was wondering what interconnects are you guys using with the Abyss?
> 
> I feel like for my system I could something like silver that could provide fast, detailed sound. But since Abyss is not a dark sound headphone, I'm afraid with silver it'll make things too exciting...



It'll help to know what interconnects (and source/amp) you are using now to make some recommendations.  
There's no reason one HAS to use silver interconnects for "fast, detailed" sound, as there are plenty of non-silver cables that do this.
I do happen to use pure silver cables with my Abyss, PS Audio Transcendent, but they avoid most of the stereotypical "silver sound."


----------



## Jon L

Finally received the 4-pin to 3-pin mini XLR adapter so hooked up the Nordost Heimdall 2 headphone cable.  
I bought them because they are the ONLY Nordost cables that utilize their dual mono-filament (air dielectric) tech that does NOT use silver-plated copper conductors, which peaked my curiosity.  In fact, I don't know of any other cable manufacturer that is selling air-dielectric pure copper cable.  Due to oxidation issues in air-dielectric, everyone uses either silver-plated copper or pure silver.

For starters, this is a very overpriced headphone cable with pretty lackluster build quality.  Heatshrink for Y-splitter at this price, Nordost?  Do not buy these near MSRP... Do not buy ANY Nordost cables near MSRP...

Having said that, these sound quite good, and the very flexible, thin design make them unintrusive compared to the stock JPS Labs headphone cable for those who hate that stiffness.  These retain that Nordost signature sound of high resolution and speed, minus the subtle discontinuity and artificiality in low-treble/upper-mids that silver-plated Nordosts tend to exhibit.  I don't know which genius at Nordost decided to use 32 AWG(!) conductors, but this means do not expect any Extra bass quanitity or overall extra warmth or bloom.  However, it also means this cable sounds similar to some of the best ultra-thin school of cabling out there such as Omega Mikro, Magnan IME.  There is startling clarity and purity of microdynamic life in midrange, which is tough to duplicate with heavier AWG cables.  This cable sounds naked without any extra forgiveness up top or bottom, but it also lacks any bothersome discontinuities, blur, haze, and veil.  

I did prefer the results when I moved my Abyss from THX AAA SS amp to tubes; and even then, I changed one Matsushita ECC83 (fast) tube a NOS Mullard ECC83 (richer), so don't buy the Nordost cable to infuse "copper warmth" or forgivness over the stock JPS Alumiloy cable.  




0213201502a by drjlo2, on Flickr




0213201452 by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## MacedonianHero

Marco_tam said:


> I was wondering what interconnects are you guys using with the Abyss?
> 
> I feel like for my system I could something like silver that could provide fast, detailed sound. But since Abyss is not a dark sound headphone, I'm afraid with silver it'll make things too exciting...



I'm using the Moon Audio Black Dragon V2 (or whatever the latest version is) balanced into my amps. For interconnects between my DAC and amps, it's the Audioquest Water XLRs.


----------



## Marco_tam

Jon L said:


> It'll help to know what interconnects (and source/amp) you are using now to make some recommendations.
> There's no reason one HAS to use silver interconnects for "fast, detailed" sound, as there are plenty of non-silver cables that do this.
> I do happen to use pure silver cables with my Abyss, PS Audio Transcendent, but they avoid most of the stereotypical "silver sound."



Actually I'm just curious of what interconnects other Abyss fans are using. It turns out silver might be more popular than copper after all!


----------



## ken6217

I’m using MIT Oracle HD50 Rev. 2 XLR interconnects.


----------



## llamaluv

Danacable Diamond Reference XLR, since relatively recently. 

They have that Danacable "house sound" -- kind of warm and lush, with lots of air and a kind of nuanced "sound gradient" airiness around instruments.

After getting comfortable with them and then doing a direct comparison to my outgoing Moon Audio Silver Dragon XLRs, now I'm like, "What was I thinking?" The Silver Dragons have a silver-ey brightness to them in contrast, which it turns out I'm no longer so much into...


----------



## tunes

llamaluv said:


> Danacable Diamond Reference XLR, since relatively recently.
> 
> They have that Danacable "house sound" -- kind of warm and lush, with lots of air and a kind of nuanced "sound gradient" airiness around instruments.
> 
> After getting comfortable with them and then doing a direct comparison to my outgoing Moon Audio Silver Dragon XLRs, now I'm like, "What was I thinking?" The Silver Dragons have a silver-ey brightness to them in contrast, which it turns out I'm no longer so much into...


----------



## Ciggavelli

I have Danacables Sapphire Ref Mk2 XLRs myself. I’m a fan of the Danacables sound too


----------



## Benny-x

Jon L said:


> Ribbons do actually stretch permanently if overdriven, so I would take that EQ in steps, especially if you plan to "basshead" very loudly
> 
> I do wonder if it's a possibility to have both a ribbon (treble) and a planar driver (bass) in the same headphone, kind of like certain Magnepan speakers...


Not that it's a ribbon, but Enigmacoustics Dharma D1000 did essentially that. Enigmacoustics is well known for their reference super tweeters, which is somewhat similar in results to a ribbon, and this is what was doing the high-end, while a dynamic driver was doing the mids and lows. 

It was said to be a good headphone and the best execution of the idea so far, but it wasn't playing in the same league as the summit-fi headphones of 3-4 years ago. I never listened myself, though.

Until something amazing comes along, I took that as a hint that a hybrid headphone is likely always going to face an uphill battle, both ways, in the snow. 

Did you get to hear the Dharma D1000?


----------



## Benny-x

ken6217 said:


> I’m using MIT Oracle HD50 Rev. 2 XLR interconnects.


I love you. XLR interconnects that cost more than your headphones and your amp :~)

Tell me your take on those vs. others you've had? I've always been interested in MIT Cables with the mystery box inline, but the nice looking ones are crazy expensive. 

What I've really been interested in trying is using an adapter to convert the full-size XLR termination to mini-XLR and using these kind of interconnects directly feeding the Abyss...


----------



## jlbrach

the stock cable on the abyss 1266 is about the only TOTL cable that I dont think needs replacing.....it is outstanding


----------



## Jon L

Benny-x said:


> Not that it's a ribbon, but Enigmacoustics Dharma D1000 did essentially that. Enigmacoustics is well known for their reference super tweeters, which is somewhat similar in results to a ribbon, and this is what was doing the high-end, while a dynamic driver was doing the mids and lows.






DharmaD1000 by drjlo2, on Flickr

Dharma D1000 looks more like my old AKG K340, with an electret element and dynamic driver.  
I'm thinking.. Run the RAAL ribbon full range, then add in a planar driver for low-bass only.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

I finally got to hear the TC at Canjam just a little while ago. I heard it on the stack that Joe had and the Woo audio wa33. It was awesome at Joes table. But, the Woo audio pairing was the best stuff at the show for me, easily. I returned about 5 times and did an a/b with the Susvara. The TC sounded better and the Susvara just had a better fit. I could easily live with either of those two. The TC sounds amazing. I see what all the fuss is about.


----------



## Litlgi74

The TCs and Susvara demo on the Woo Audio WA33 was the highlight of the show for me as well! IMO... It took less than 2 seconds to decide which was better... For me... the sound signatures were drastically different. Glad I made the right purchase. LOL.

I did find it interesting that Mike from Woo Audio he was using a WA11 Topaz as the DAC for the WA.33.

The Susvara are very comfortable...


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

Litlgi74 said:


> The TCs and Susvara demo on the Woo Audio WA33 was the highlight of the show for me as well! IMO... It took less than 2 seconds to decide which was better... For me... the sound signatures were drastically different. Glad I made the right purchase. LOL.
> 
> I did find it interesting that Mike from Woo Audio he was using a WA11 Topaz as the DAC for the WA.33.
> 
> The Susvara are very comfortable...


It still sounded soooo good with that little dac.


----------



## Litlgi74

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> It still sounded soooo good with that little dac.


I totally agree... But makes you wonder about the importance of DACs... or is the WA11 just that good?

PS... I also found it very interesting just how many people were using Michael Jackson's music as their demo material... I had to see at least 10 people playing a track from the Thriller album.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Woo WA11 for the dac?  I've heard good things about that product, but I can't see it pushing the WA33 to their potential.  Maybe there is something I'm missing here


----------



## Litlgi74

Ciggavelli said:


> Woo WA11 for the dac?  I've heard good things about that product, but I can't see it pushing the WA33 to their potential.  Maybe there is something I'm missing here


@PeteSTRADAMUS isn't lying... It sounded great!


----------



## Ciggavelli

Litlgi74 said:


> @PeteSTRADAMUS isn't lying... It sounded great!


Interesting.  I guess another bonus would be that the WA11 is supposed to be a great portable solid state amp too.  I'm curious now.  If I end up getting an easier to drive closed back for portable use, the WA11 will be on my short list


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

Litlgi74 said:


> I totally agree... But makes you wonder about the importance of DACs... or is the WA11 just that good?
> 
> PS... I also found it very interesting just how many people were using Michael Jackson's music as their demo material... I had to see at least 10 people playing a track from the Thriller album.


I honestly can’t hear how special dacs sound. But I do hear the difference in amps. And the wa11/wa33 was better than the formula-s/powerman and the sagra dac. I listened to the dCS Bartok and I wasn’t impressed with that either. Maybe I don’t know what to look/hear for. I’m just glad I don’t have to spend big money on a dac. A proper amp will keep me smiling for days.


----------



## ken6217

Benny-x said:


> I love you. XLR interconnects that cost more than your headphones and your amp :~)
> 
> Tell me your take on those vs. others you've had? I've always been interested in MIT Cables with the mystery box inline, but the nice looking ones are crazy expensive.
> 
> What I've really been interested in trying is using an adapter to convert the full-size XLR termination to mini-XLR and using these kind of interconnects directly feeding the Abyss...




I would need to buy a couple of pairs to equal the cost of my amp and headphones. 

These are the best interconnects I've ever had. I have tried Kimber, Audience, Wireworld, Transparent, Synergistc Research, to name a few. Any interconnects I've tried would maybe give more treble, and resolutions, or more bass, and then the highs would suffer. These are the only cables where there is no sacrifice. Plus the detail, resolution and soundstage is amazing. 

You can set the impedance switch to match your amp, and you can adjust the articulation.

I am using a speaker amp as well and using the Superconductor banana plug to XLR adapter to my TC.


----------



## ahossam

Listening this album with TC is SOOO GUD!


----------



## Benny-x

ken6217 said:


> I would need to buy a couple of pairs to equal the cost of my amp and headphones.
> 
> These are the best interconnects I've ever had. I have tried Kimber, Audience, Wireworld, Transparent, Synergistc Research, to name a few. Any interconnects I've tried would maybe give more treble, and resolutions, or more bass, and then the highs would suffer. These are the only cables where there is no sacrifice. Plus the detail, resolution and soundstage is amazing.
> 
> ...


I thought those Mk2 cables were ~$9000 MSRP and ~$5000-7000 used? 

And I think your TCs would be $5000 new and the 600i Mk2 is ~$5000 used, isn't it? I'm playing a bit loosey-goosey there for sure, but just for my own understanding now, those are the right ballparks, right?

That's good info on the MIT cable, though. Sadly, it helps continue my interest in them. That'll be a few years off for sure, I've got to get a new pair of speakers before that and convince myself not to get lost in anything else in the mean time.


----------



## ken6217

Benny-x said:


> I thought those Mk2 cables were ~$9000 MSRP and ~$5000-7000 used?
> 
> And I think your TCs would be $5000 new and the 600i Mk2 is ~$5000 used, isn't it? I'm playing a bit loosey-goosey there for sure, but just for my own understanding now, those are the right ballparks, right?
> 
> That's good info on the MIT cable, though. Sadly, it helps continue my interest in them. That'll be a few years off for sure, I've got to get a new pair of speakers before that and convince myself not to get lost in anything else in the mean time.



Thank God you're not my wife with all of the detective work. LOL.

The TC's were more because of the Superconductor cable and box. The amp was new and so that's $9k, but I got it for $7k as I've done business with this dealer for many years.

The MIT cables were new, but mark up is through the roof (and evidently through the clouds too), and so I got a great deal on them from another dealer that I've done a lot of business over the years.

Oh, not to make you feel worse, I also have the MIT Oracle MA-X AES/EBU digital cable. 

If you are interested in MIT, drop me a PM, maybe I can think of something for you.


----------



## jlbrach

PeteSTRADAMUS said:


> sagra d



everyone hears things differently...to me the DAC is the most important thing...I have the wa11 topaz and think it is great but the DAC portion isnt as good as the hugo 2 IMHO....


----------



## Arniesb

jlbrach said:


> everyone hears things differently...to me the DAC is the most important thing...I have the wa11 topaz and think it is great but the DAC portion isnt as good as the hugo 2 IMHO....


No matter the dac if the amp is bad it will sound anemic. Try very weak amp with totl dac and see how it goes.


----------



## jlbrach

and vice versa


----------



## Benny-x

I personally side with the approach "start from the transducer and work backwards" about what order to focus my funds in. 

However, I have totally dropped the ball on that and bought more expensive components deeper in the chain and not in that order. From my findings in building smaller systems, making use of my extras, the opening statement holds true. You really can get a lot from the "bang for buck" components until then, and especially nowadays with all the great bargain components.

But nowadays I'm trying to put together a more capable complete system, so all the components are in play and on the chopping block. Not quite power cables or interconnects yet, I'm really struggling to hold off from those for now.


----------



## deuter

What are you currently using to drive the headphones, looking for some tube goodness but not expensive


----------



## nicooo

Hi guys, I just got myself a used AB 1266 Phi which came with the 4 pin XLR cable plus 1/4" adaptor. I currently use it with my Chord Hugo TT2 + M Scaler and recommended single ended output. Since I would like to try out the balanced output of the TT2 for more power I face two options: (a) add an adaptor to 2x3 pin XLR or (b) reterminate the cable to 2x3 pin XLR (and also reterminate the 1/4" adaptor). What do you think would be the best solution? I currently favour option (b) since I could do the soldering myself, its cheaper and there's no adaptor needed for the XLR output. Option (a) seems simpler but more expensive (600$ for the Abyss adaptor!) plus I wouldn't know what adaptor to get. (I compared the stock cable to a Moon Silver dragon which is readily available where I live but found it seriously inferior to the stock Abyss cable.)


----------



## mat.1

nicooo said:


> Hi guys, I just got myself a used AB 1266 Phi which came with the 4 pin XLR cable plus 1/4" adaptor. I currently use it with my Chord Hugo TT2 + M Scaler and recommended single ended output. Since I would like to try out the balanced output of the TT2 for more power I face two options: (a) add an adaptor to 2x3 pin XLR or (b) reterminate the cable to 2x3 pin XLR (and also reterminate the 1/4" adaptor). What do you think would be the best solution? I currently favour option (b) since I could do the soldering myself, its cheaper and there's no adaptor needed for the XLR output. Option (a) seems simpler but more expensive (600$ for the Abyss adaptor!) plus I wouldn't know what adaptor to get. (I compared the stock cable to a Moon Silver dragon which is readily available where I live but found it seriously inferior to the stock Abyss cable.)


For A : you need 2x3 pin female XLR to 4 pin female XLR .
For B : I don't know what do you mean , ( If you need reterminate, you only need to change 4 pin male XLR to 2x3 pin female XLR ) 
            or you need to reterminate 1/4" adaptor to female 2x3pin XLR , so it will be the same as A ( but i don't know inside the jps cable is 3 wire or 4 wire for the adaptor, because the adaptor is only using single cable )
hope this help .


----------



## F208Frank

From my experience I also feel from the headphone and moving backwards is the way to go. But in the end everything matters.


----------



## ken6217

nicooo said:


> Hi guys, I just got myself a used AB 1266 Phi which came with the 4 pin XLR cable plus 1/4" adaptor. I currently use it with my Chord Hugo TT2 + M Scaler and recommended single ended output. Since I would like to try out the balanced output of the TT2 for more power I face two options: (a) add an adaptor to 2x3 pin XLR or (b) reterminate the cable to 2x3 pin XLR (and also reterminate the 1/4" adaptor). What do you think would be the best solution? I currently favour option (b) since I could do the soldering myself, its cheaper and there's no adaptor needed for the XLR output. Option (a) seems simpler but more expensive (600$ for the Abyss adaptor!) plus I wouldn't know what adaptor to get. (I compared the stock cable to a Moon Silver dragon which is readily available where I live but found it seriously inferior to the stock Abyss cable.)



I never understood the love for Moon cables. Over the years I have tried their silver, black, and blue headphone and IEM cables, and they all had one thing in common. None of them sounded any good.


----------



## Jon L (Feb 18, 2020)

nicooo said:


> (a) add an adaptor to 2x3 pin XLR



What you need is 4-pin *female* to 3-pin female (x2) adapter, which is hard to find.  They all have 4-pin *male* plug.  Let me know if you found such a thing.
You could buy an adapter and just swap out the 4-pin from male to female.

For purest audio path, best thing is to reterminate the Abyss cable to 3-pin female (x2), but that has implications for resale value, and if you are like us, you will want the original 4-pin intact so you can try other balanced amps in future..

So, if it were me, I would reterminate the short Abyss 4-pin to 1/4" adapter.  This would keep the wire material the same alumiloy all the way through and look more elegant.  And you can try all kinds of balanced amps in future that feature either 4-pin or 3-pin (x2) outputs.  For resale, I think most buyers of something like Abyss will likely prefer to have the short adapter with 3 pin (x2) than 1/4" plug.  I know I would.


----------



## Jon L

duplicate


----------



## CreditingKarma

Has anyone noticed noise when first powering on the powerman formula s combo? It is almost like electrical noise ( white noise) it lessens and eventually goes away after about 15min.


----------



## nicooo

Jon L said:


> What you need is 4-pin *female* to 3-pin female (x2) adapter, which is hard to find.  They all have 4-pin *male* plug.  Let me know if you found such a thing.
> You could buy an adapter and just swap out the 4-pin from male to female.
> 
> For purest audio path, best thing is to reterminate the Abyss cable to 3-pin female (x2), but that has implications for resale value, and if you are like us, you will want the original 4-pin intact so you can try other balanced amps in future..
> ...


Thanks for the suggestion, Jon. I would really like to compare the single ended output of the Hugo TT2 before committig to balanced (if at all) since Chord recommends SE. Exchanging a 4 pin male with female doesn't sound so difficult. Can you recommend a good adapter?


----------



## nicooo

mat.1 said:


> For A : you need 2x3 pin female XLR to 4 pin female XLR .
> For B : I don't know what do you mean , ( If you need reterminate, you only need to change 4 pin male XLR to 2x3 pin female XLR )
> or you need to reterminate 1/4" adaptor to female 2x3pin XLR , so it will be the same as A ( but i don't know inside the jps cable is 3 wire or 4 wire for the adaptor, because the adaptor is only using single cable )
> hope this help .


Thanks! Since Chord recommends their single ended output, I would really keep this option (at least until I confirmed that balanced is indeed better). I opened the 4 pin XLR to 1/4" adaptor and it has 4 wires, so that's possible...


----------



## mat.1

nicooo said:


> Thanks! Since Chord recommends their single ended output, I would really keep this option (at least until I confirmed that balanced is indeed better). I opened the 4 pin XLR to 1/4" adaptor and it has 4 wires, so that's possible...


you can  made it yourself since you can solder by yourself, so you still have option for the Single ended.
https://www.thecableco.com/diy-cables-and-connectors/xlr/fp-706f-r-phono-plug.html
https://www.thecableco.com/diy-cables-and-connectors/xlr/fp-702-g-female-xlr.html
but i can not find the cable that have same transparency as Jps cables.
If you do it don't forget to change to amp mode in Hugo TT2 and lower the volume ,before you play anything.

hope this help.


----------



## F208Frank

Damn that was harsh. I tried their silver cable back in the day with the shure se 846, they were the go to silver cable for those iems I think.


----------



## mat.1

mat.1 said:


> you can  made it yourself since you can solder by yourself, so you still have option for the Single ended.
> https://www.thecableco.com/diy-cables-and-connectors/xlr/fp-706f-r-phono-plug.html
> https://www.thecableco.com/diy-cables-and-connectors/xlr/fp-702-g-female-xlr.html
> but i can not find the cable that have same transparency as Jps cables in my place .
> ...


----------



## Jon L

nicooo said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, Jon. I would really like to compare the single ended output of the Hugo TT2 before committig to balanced (if at all) since Chord recommends SE. Exchanging a 4 pin male with female doesn't sound so difficult. Can you recommend a good adapter?



Actually, I found one with 4-pin female connector.  Looks to be of decent quality but using the ubiquitous silver-plated copper wire.  I would probably try it, and if it sounds promising, likely keep the plugs and swap out the spc wire with shorter pure copper wire myself..

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WSRV9KK/ref=psdc_2267280011_t1_B07WTNB2Z5


----------



## drew911d

I bought a $140 Moon Audio adapter cable to try the dual 3 pin XLR output of my TT2.  It's worth it, for sure, and I'm just waiting until I can get SC cables terminated with the dual 3 pin to upgrade.

The extra power increases depth and dynamics.  I turned it down 7db for close to the same volume.


----------



## nicooo

Thanks everyone for all the links and suggestions! I decided to try my luck with resoldering the 4 pin XLR to 2x3 pin XLR (no compromise in quality!). If that's successful and I like the result I will also reterminate the 1/4" adapter for final comparison. I don't worry about about resale value since these phones aren't going anywhere soon.


----------



## nicooo

Regarding the Moon silver dragon: Compared to the stock cable I found it limited on both ends of the frequency range. Treble was dampened and less detailed and the same for sub bass. It sounded less dynamic with a smaller stage. I was actually quite shocked of the difference. 

Caveat: Since the Moon cable was terminated with a 4 pin mini XLR and not the 3 pin variant on the AB1266 i pushed the connector only slightly in to not damage the contacts. That might have had some effect on sound quality...


----------



## llamaluv

CreditingKarma said:


> To think all of this started with watching z review the lcd x. I got that and an idsd black label and now look where I am. This is a dangerous hobby.


Oh nice, the LCD-X and the iDSD BL was my very first setup as well! Hehe.


----------



## Litlgi74

Hello my fellow 1266ers

You've got to check this track out... It wows me on so many levels.. but none more than the little flutter in her voice at around 2 minutes and 50 seconds.

https://tidal.com/track/113135248


----------



## Jon L (Feb 20, 2020)

Didn't know Freya Ridings, but I like that song.  Thanks.
Since we are recommending songs, pure poetry by Leonard Cohen, released 3 weeks before his death


----------



## Roasty

Oh man.. it finally happened.. One of the rubber rings snapped. 

Would a few rubber bands and a zip tie work?


----------



## CreditingKarma

Roasty said:


> Oh man.. it finally happened.. One of the rubber rings snapped.
> 
> Would a few rubber bands and a zip tie work?



How long have you had the abyss for??


----------



## ken6217

You have a $5000 headphone. Get a new band. Why make it look like crap?


----------



## Litlgi74

Roasty said:


> Oh man.. it finally happened.. One of the rubber rings snapped.
> 
> Would a few rubber bands and a zip tie work?



Or you could do this...


Litlgi74 said:


> @lockjaw shared this ingenious headband mod for when the o-rings break.


----------



## Roasty

CreditingKarma said:


> How long have you had the abyss for??



About 6 to 7 months if I'm not wrong..




ken6217 said:


> You have a $5000 headphone. Get a new band. Why make it look like crap?



I know that, and yes I may well do that. Also a good excuse to order other stuff from jps... 

But I do need a temporary fix in the meantime.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> About 6 to 7 months if I'm not wrong..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



At least that’s  only rubber that broke.


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> Oh man.. it finally happened.. One of the rubber rings snapped.
> 
> Would a few rubber bands and a zip tie work?





Roasty said:


> Oh man.. it finally happened.. One of the rubber rings snapped.
> 
> Would a few rubber bands and a zip tie work?


Did you happen to cut the rubber band? Let's know what's your remedy.


----------



## Roasty

This will have to do until I can get a new headband. Several rubber bands and a zip tie did the trick.


----------



## F208Frank

Roasty said:


> This will have to do until I can get a new headband. Several rubber bands and a zip tie did the trick.


How long did you have headphone for? It seems pretty sturdy from my standpoint and it bugs me a little that yours snapped.


----------



## FLTWS

I've had mine since 12/2017 but I never hang it by the the headband in my stand. Other than the upgrade to Phi and addon CC pads I've not had to replace the headband or earpads. I did hang on to the the original pads however.


----------



## Benny-x

ken6217 said:


> At least that’s  only rubber that broke.


Nice one 

Is that still in play nowadays?


----------



## Litlgi74

Roasty said:


> This will have to do until I can get a new headband. Several rubber bands and a zip tie did the trick.


Is the headband not covered under warranty?


----------



## ken6217

Benny-x said:


> Nice one
> 
> Is that still in play nowadays?



I don't know. I could never find any big enough.


----------



## justonwo

Roasty said:


> This will have to do until I can get a new headband. Several rubber bands and a zip tie did the trick.



I would think Abyss would be happy to warranty this, and I would certainly expect them to. I’m not in love with the rubber band design built into my Phis. At the very least, they should make them replaceable without needing to replace the entire leather strap.


----------



## F208Frank

Abyss is one of those companies where even if they did not warranty, customers may still buy their product because their headphone is just too amazing. With that said though, I would be pretty sad/dissapointed to know if Abyss would not warranty something like that when their headphone costs $5K retail. I think it depends on if the warranty running out or not? Let us know.


----------



## Roasty

i ended up just ordering a new headband from JPS. 
also, not really sure what i was thinking... but i ended up ordering an SC cable too.


----------



## FLTWS

LOL!  I'd like a ham sandwich and I'll take one of those cans of Iranian Seruga Caviar.


----------



## ken6217

justonwo said:


> I would think Abyss would be happy to warranty this, and I would certainly expect them to. I’m not in love with the rubber band design built into my Phis. At the very least, they should make them replaceable without needing to replace the entire leather strap.



Why would they? That rubber band seems virtually indestructible if you don’t screw around with it. I think you’d have to have a lot of wear and tear on it for to become weak and break. It was made to work in conjunction with the head strap. If you start doing mods and using zip ties etc., then you’re changing the tension and torque on it and then I would say all bets are off in terms of its longevity..


----------



## attmci

joseph69 said:


> Ah, okay.
> Let me know what you think about the 596 after sufficient burn in.


Still waiting for the adapter. 

But I like this metal base rectifier. You should give it a try.


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> i ended up just ordering a new headband from JPS.
> also, not really sure what i was thinking... but i ended up ordering an SC cable too.



They will love a customer like you for sure.

I thought they need to recall the lambskin ear pads a couple of weeks ago, and now they should recall the leather headband too.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Feb 22, 2020)

So, I just got my Raal/Requisite SR1a yesterday, and I've been listening to it all morning.  I read some review somewhere that said the SR1a and the TCs have more in common than they do different.  That is very true from my first few hours of listening.  The SR1a has better imaging, wider sound stage, and speed etc.  The TCs have better bass, musicality, they are still very fast. But, they both play music outside your head

One of these days I'm going to have to stop being lazy and write a comparison between the TCs, Susvaras, and SR1aS


----------



## joseph69

attmci said:


> Still waiting for the adapter.
> But I like this metal base rectifier. You should give it a try.


Link?


----------



## Litlgi74

Ciggavelli said:


> So, I just got my Raal/Requisite SR1a yesterday, and I've been listening to it all morning.  I read some review somewhere that said the SR1a and the TCs have more in common than they do different.  That is very true from my first few hours of listening.  The SR1a has better imaging, wider sound stage, and speed etc.  The TCs have better bass, musicality, they are still very fast.
> 
> One of these days I'm going to have to stop being lazy and write a comparison between the TCs, Susvaras, and SR1aS


I am very surprised to hear this from you... I was really hoping to love them... They were on my must listen list at CanJam. I did enjoy the transparency and detail of the Raals... But everything else was a negative for me... Especially the bass... They are just not a full range headphone. The fit and feel was also quite awkward for me as well... 

I'm sorry to be raining on your parade... I'm just surprised considering your bassheadedness.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Litlgi74 said:


> I am very surprised to hear this from you... I was really hoping to love them... They were on my must listen list at CanJam. I did enjoy the transparency and detail of the Raals... But everything else was a negative for me... Especially the bass... They are just not a full range headphone. The fit and feel was also quite awkward for me as well...
> 
> I'm sorry to be raining on your parade... I'm just surprised considering your bassheadedness.


Yeah, I think I'm fine with the bass because I expected it to be non-existent, so anything above that was a bonus.  I also think using the WA33 for a pre-amp and the JotR for an hp amp could be why it sounds better than I had initially expected.  
Don't get me wrong, the bass is nowhere near TC levels.  I'm definitely not going to listen to hip-hop with the SR1as.  But, very fast music sounds extremely good.  Like grindcore (e.g.,Agoraphobic Nosebleed) and technical death metal (Origin, for example) sound so, so good.


----------



## ahossam

This is how I put my TC on headphone stand since I got them about a month ago, adding sponge cushion between the frame and the headband.


----------



## Litlgi74

Ciggavelli said:


> But, very fast music sounds extremely good. Like grindcore (e.g.,Agoraphobic Nosebleed) and technical death metal (Origin, for example) sound so, so good.


The fact that this is actually a real genre... makes me chuckle.


----------



## paradoxper

Litlgi74 said:


> The fact that this is actually a real genre... makes me chuckle.


Just barely for us degenerates.


----------



## justonwo

ken6217 said:


> Why would they? That rubber band seems virtually indestructible if you don’t screw around with it. I think you’d have to have a lot of wear and tear on it for to become weak and break. It was made to work in conjunction with the head strap. If you start doing mods and using zip ties etc., then you’re changing the tension and torque on it and then I would say all bets are off in terms of its longevity..



It seems like the fellow above only got 6-7 months out of his. It’s not clear, but I don’t think he did any mods.

All rubber of this kind deteriorates over time. I just don’t think it’s a great design to have the rubber sewn into the headband.


----------



## Roasty (Feb 22, 2020)

justonwo said:


> It seems like the fellow above only got 6-7 months out of his. It’s not clear, but I don’t think he did any mods.
> 
> All rubber of this kind deteriorates over time. I just don’t think it’s a great design to have the rubber sewn into the headband.



I didn't do any additional mods to the headband. I did, however, do a half turn of the headband before seating it on my head, to increase the tension and allow the headphones to sit higher rather than have the inside of the ear cups rest on the top of my ears. I suppose that contributed to the rubber snapping, plus the fact the headphones are in an air-conditioned room all the time which may have caused it to harden and crack (?). The band on the other side does look ok though. Anyhow, I didn't bring it up to JPS; just ordered a new one and will not be twisting the headband from now on. I have a pilot pad from ZMF which I will stuff in between the headband and metal frame when using the headphones.


----------



## justonwo

Roasty said:


> I didn't do any additional mods to the headband. I did, however, do a half turn of the headband before seating it on my head, to increase the tension and allow the headphones to sit higher rather than have the inside of the ear cups rest on the top of my ears. I suppose that contributed to the rubber snapping, plus the fact the headphones are in an air-conditioned room all the time which may have caused it to harden and crack (?). The band on the other side does look ok though. Anyhow, I didn't bring it up to JPS; just ordered a new one and will not be twisting the headband from now on. I have a pilot pad from ZMF which I will stuff in between the headband and metal frame when using the headphones.



Not a big deal, but I think the rubber should be able to handle a lot of distorting. I would honestly ask JPS about it. I bet anything they’d refund your order and replace it for free. Anyway, not the end of the world. I’d pay for one after maybe 4-5 years of heavy use, but I’d expect warranty in less than one year on something like this.

Actually, a split rubber band design with a couple of knots on the end to prevent slipping past the metal clasp would work just fine as a fix without replacing the whole headband. Seems like an idea to consider for JPS.


----------



## Roasty

justonwo said:


> Not a big deal, but I think the rubber should be able to handle a lot of distorting. I would honestly ask JPS about it. I bet anything they’d refund your order and replace it for free. Anyway, not the end of the world. I’d pay for one after maybe 4-5 years of heavy use, but I’d expect warranty in less than one year on something like this.
> 
> Actually, a split rubber band design with a couple of knots on the end to prevent slipping past the metal clasp would work just fine as a fix without replacing the whole headband. Seems like an idea to consider for JPS.



Yea I'm not too fussed about it. I think Abyss/Joe do read this thread so if they decide to get in touch then great, but if not then it's ok.


----------



## attmci

joseph69 said:


> Link?


No good deal now. Just watch out for these metal base GZ34 (Mullard/Philips).


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Nice to see some of you guys in NYC...


----------



## Litlgi74

Joe Skubinski said:


> Nice to see some of you guys in NYC...



It was nice meeting you as well... Congratulations on creating the world's best headphones!

Now get to work on a closed back version.


----------



## F208Frank

Joe is lucky to have his sons, and his sons are lucky to have him. They are a blessed family.


----------



## tholt

MacedonianHero said:


> Really? I liked the WA22 (when I owned it) with Grados or the HD800, but I was never a fan with it and orthos. I always felt it left the HE-6, Abyss, etc..a bit starved for dynamics and punch. YMMV of course.



My experience as well with the WA22. I had gen 1, not sure if gen 2 sounds better (I believe it has more power?). Always seemed to sound lacking -- a bit thin from memory. I felt there was sure to be better options in that price range. Sold it pretty quickly afterward.



Marco_tam said:


> I was wondering what interconnects are you guys using with the Abyss?



I went through a few ICs and ended up with Cardas Golden Presence. I find the 1266 can be a little on the thin and analytical side if not paired with complimentary upstream gear. The Cardas adds a touch of warmth, and I've never heard such a big, cohesive and dimensional soundstage. Not strictly neutral, but then again, I find neutral can sound pretty boring.


----------



## F208Frank

Shamanic Tales by Astrix was meant to be played on the Abyss. Holy flying F... The Abyss never fails to amaze.


----------



## Ciggavelli

This song is crazy on the TCs.  Listen to the whole track (there's a beat switch).  The bass


----------



## BrowChan

This too. Humongous bass, a little caution (I guess I shouldn't have spoiled it, haha).

Song popped up right after listening to BHZ (pretty cool).


----------



## MaggotBrain (Feb 25, 2020)

I did want to share a couple of relatively easy upgrades I did that greatly improved my Abyss experience. 
Several months back, the rubber connectors on my headband snapped. I jury-rigged my daughter‘s scuncies to approximate the fit - but then the sound (and suffice to say the appearance) definitely took a hit. I bit the bullet and re-ordered another headband and it is sounding as good as ever.

A less intuitive but even cheaper upgrade opportunity occurred when I had my Diana Superconductor shortened - I bought it used but the only length available was 8 feet. So while that did serve the dual purpose of allowing me to listen on the go and jump rope at the same time - just kidding - it was an unwieldy setup, so I arranged for the shortening. I contracted Ted Allen, and I would like to think that after he shortened the cable to 5 feet he uttered “You’ve been chopped”  - but actually I don’t think it’s THAT Ted Allen but the one over at headphonelounge. He asked me what I wanted to do with the leftover bits, which I hadn’t fathomed bit I figured that maybe an upgrade in my RCA connection from my Chord Dave to my audiogd-Master 9 would be in order.  I did the upgrade (from a Nordost Heimdall cable) and I couldn’t believe that a minor tweak could make such a substantial difference.  The trebly peaks from my OG Abyss dissipated and the shimmering details started to unveil themselves like a Renaissance painting restored with extraneous paint chipped away with surgical precision.  I am usually do not invest a bunch in interconnects but the marriage of the JPS components was a harmonious one to say the least.

So don’t be a cheap person if your headband snaps but you can be a cheap person if you have extraneous cable bits or snippets lying around (I had the Superconductor modification and a IEM cable all fixed for around $50).


----------



## Litlgi74

MaggotBrain said:


> I did want to share a couple of relatively easy upgrades I did that greatly improved my Abyss experience.
> Several months back, the rubber connectors on my headband snapped. I jury-rigged my daughter‘s scuncies to approximate the fit - but then the sound (and suffice to say the appearance) definitely took a hit. I bit the bullet and re-ordered another headband and it is sounding as good as ever.
> 
> A less intuitive but even cheaper upgrade opportunity occurred when I had my Diana Superconductor shortened - I bought it used but the only length available was 8 feet. So while that did serve the dual purpose of allowing me to listen on the go and jump rope at the same time - just kidding - it was an unwieldy setup, so I arranged for the shortening. I contracted Ted Allen, and I would like to think that after he shortened the cable to 5 feet he uttered “You’ve been chopped”  - but actually I don’t think it’s THAT Ted Allen but the one over at headphonelounge. He asked me what I wanted to do with the leftover bits, which I hadn’t fathomed bit I figured that maybe an upgrade in my RCA connection from my Chord Dave to my audiogd-Master 9 would be in order.  I did the upgrade (from a Nordost Heimdall cable) and I couldn’t believe that a minor tweak could make such a substantial difference.  The trebly peaks from my OG Abyss dissipated and the shimmering details started to unveil themselves like a Renaissance painting restored with extraneous paint chipped away with surgical precision.  I am usually do not invest a bunch in interconnects but the marriage of them JPS components was a harmonious one to say the least.
> ...


Ted at headphonelounge.com is great!


----------



## galacticsoap

Loved the Can Jam NYC video! 

Still couldn't be happier with my TC's. 

I've just inserted a new Line Magnetic LM-512CA tube pre and March Audio Hypex NC1200 mono's into my headphone rig and I couldn't be happier. Dead silent, holographic, and dynamic.

Next step is to invest in a superconductor cable as an upgrade from the very good  Lazuli Reference I've using. 

Lastly, would like to echo the calls for a closed-back!


----------



## Roasty

galacticsoap said:


> I've just inserted a new Line Magnetic LM-512CA tube pre and March Audio Hypex NC1200 mono's into my headphone rig and I couldn't be happier. Dead silent, holographic, and dynamic.



I just googled that pre amp.. That volume knob looks amazing! Looks like a fantastic build. What amp did u connect it to?


----------



## ekfc63 (Feb 25, 2020)

galacticsoap said:


> Still couldn't be happier with my TC's.
> 
> Next step is to invest in a superconductor cable as an upgrade from the very good  Lazuli Reference I've using.



Ditto.  Loving my TCs.  The Dave/MScaler and XI Formula S / Powerman all play their part in the stellar sound.
I just sold my Lazuli Reference to revert to the stock cable.  Still debating whether to spend the not inconsiderable $ to jump to the Superconductor.  What did you like about the Superconductor in comparison the the Lazuli Ref and stock cable?


----------



## galacticsoap

Roasty said:


> I just googled that pre amp.. That volume knob looks amazing! Looks like a fantastic build. What amp did u connect it to?



Thank you mate. It looks phenomenal. I've always admired LM components, however it wasn't till I wanted to try a tube pre in my system did I have a need to invest in one of their pieces. As an example of some of there other components here's their flagship LM-845 Premium integrated: 






I've got the preamp connected to a pair of Hpex NC1200 monoblocks from March Audio (1200wats into 2 ohm): 

https://www.marchaudio.net.au/product-page/p701-flagship-mono-block-power-amplifier

I previously ran the TC's off an Accuphase A70. I prefer the NC1200's as its got a blacker background and more control on the TC drivers compared to the Accuphase.


----------



## galacticsoap

ekfc63 said:


> Ditto.  Loving my TCs.  The Dave/MScaler and XI Formula S / Powerman all play their part in the stellar sound.
> I just sold my Lazuli Reference to revert to the stock cable.  Still debating whether to jump to the Superconductor.  What did you like about the Superconductor in comparison the the Lazuli Ref and stock cable?



WOW - Killer setup! Congratulations. As you know the stock-cable is brilliant. In fact on my work-rig I think I prefer it to the Lazuli Reference. The Topping D70 and SMSL200 are almost insulting in their level of value for money compared to my main rig but there's no denying that there's a delta by way of resolution. With this in mind the stock cable which is a touch more forward sounding works well. On my main rig the Lazuli Reference with it's slightly relaxed tonality synergises better.


----------



## F208Frank

I feel like super conductors bring the mids more forward and are slightly warmer.


----------



## mat.1

galacticsoap said:


> Thank you mate. It looks phenomenal. I've always admired LM components, however it wasn't till I wanted to try a tube pre in my system did I have a need to invest in one of their pieces. As an example of some of there other components here's their flagship LM-845 Premium integrated:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you using speaker out from power amp ? which one are you using, 2/4/8 ohm from speaker out ?


----------



## jlbrach

ekfc63 said:


> Ditto.  Loving my TCs.  The Dave/MScaler and XI Formula S / Powerman all play their part in the stellar sound.
> I just sold my Lazuli Reference to revert to the stock cable.  Still debating whether to spend the not inconsiderable $ to jump to the Superconductor.  What did you like about the Superconductor in comparison the the Lazuli Ref and stock cable?


A truly wonderful combo


----------



## galacticsoap

mat.1 said:


> Are you using speaker out from power amp ? which one are you using, 2/4/8 ohm from speaker out ?



Yes - speaker out from the power-amp. The amp only has one set of output terminals i.e. does not specify 2,4 or 8 ohms.


----------



## Delacaff

ekfc63 said:


> Ditto.  Loving my TCs.  The Dave/MScaler and XI Formula S / Powerman all play their part in the stellar sound.
> I just sold my Lazuli Reference to revert to the stock cable.  Still debating whether to spend the not inconsiderable $ to jump to the Superconductor.  What did you like about the Superconductor in comparison the the Lazuli Ref and stock cable?


I can only offer my experience on the stock vs SC (all played on XI Audio gears). The SC conveys a lusher / meatier medium and a refined treble. Overall imagery has evolved also, bringing a more coherent and opened scene. For me, the comparison immediately went in favour of the SC. I got aware that many things were missing with the stock. I then bought the SC with no hesitation nor regrets.


----------



## mat.1

galacticsoap said:


> Yes - speaker out from the power-amp. The amp only has one set of output terminals i.e. does not specify 2,4 or 8 ohms.


THX


----------



## ekfc63 (Feb 26, 2020)

Delacaff said:


> I can only offer my experience on the stock vs SC (all played on XI Audio gears). The SC conveys a lusher / meatier medium and a refined treble. Overall imagery has evolved also, bringing a more coherent and opened scene. For me, the comparison immediately went in favour of the SC. I got aware that many things were missing with the stock. I then bought the SC with no hesitation nor regrets.



That's kind of my experience too for the short listen I had to them a few months back.  I was auditioning the TCs with the SC cables.  All was hunky dory, then a bit of a shock when I switched to the stock cables which had quite a different balance.  Having said that I have got used to the stock cables and think they're just fine.


----------



## Tom Blake

Just joined the club  Should have my 1266 TC Lite package in about 2 weeks. I will be using it with a Benchmark HPA4. Also have a Lazuli Reference with Mini XLR connectors I will try. Is that cable a good match with the TC? It seems the HPA4 is more than capable of driving the TC's. I also use the HPA4 as the linestage in my speaker rig (Kii Threes) so it makes for a nice simple solution for combined preamp and headphone amp.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Tom Blake said:


> Just joined the club  Should have my 1266 TC Lite package in about 2 weeks. I will be using it with a Benchmark HPA4. Also have a Lazuli Reference with Mini XLR connectors I will try. Is that cable a good match with the TC? It seems the HPA4 is more than capable of driving the TC's. I also use the HPA4 as the linestage in my speaker rig (Kii Threes) so it makes for a nice simple solution for combined preamp and headphone amp.



Plenty of juice and won't break a sweat driving these headphones. Just make sure your source is up for the task, these headphones are VERY detailed and revealing. Congrats!


----------



## Tom Blake

MacedonianHero said:


> Plenty of juice and won't break a sweat driving these headphones. Just make sure your source is up for the task, these headphones are VERY detailed and revealing. Congrats!


Thanks! Your comments in the HPA4 thread gave me confidence it would be up to the task in driving the TC. My sources are in my signature. I am confident they will align to the quality level of the Abyss


----------



## Roasty

I know it's just a cable.. But I always enjoy the unboxing! Didn't expect it to come in a big wooden box... Can't wait to have a listen later tonight.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Feb 28, 2020)

If you haven't heard this recording... You owe it to yourself to try on your 1266s... It will blow you away!!!! I'm not a fan of this genre... But my gosh... The recording quality is like nothing I've ever heard. SOUND STAGE GALORE!!!!


https://www.hdtracks.com/sessions-from-the-17th-ward-binaural-133442


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Roasty said:


> I know it's just a cable.. But I always enjoy the unboxing! Didn't expect it to come in a big wooden box... Can't wait to have a listen later tonight.




I am a sucker for premium packaging.


----------



## ahossam

Roasty said:


> I know it's just a cable.. But I always enjoy the unboxing! Didn't expect it to come in a big wooden box... Can't wait to have a listen later tonight.



Would love to know your impression, SC cable is on my radar for the next purchase.


----------



## ekfc63

HiFiGuy528 said:


> I am a sucker for premium packaging.



I'm the opposite.  I'm in the Rega camp.  Plain brown cordboard.


----------



## F208Frank (Feb 28, 2020)

Anyone here over time becomes a little frustrated using IEMs after using headphones?


----------



## Ciggavelli

F208Frank said:


> Anyone here over time becomes a little frustrated using IEMs after using headphones?


Yes, but iems are the best solution on the go, or at work. I just sold my Shure se-846s because I hated the fit though. Universal iem hurt my ears after a bit, so I can’t listen all day. I’m thinking about getting some custom iems though.


----------



## Roasty

F208Frank said:


> Anyone here over time becomes a little frustrated using IEMs after using headphones?



What iems are u using? 
I enjoy my A12T and am always amazed at the sound I can get from these small little things. Nice bass, clear up top, full mids, and a very good soundstage too.


----------



## F208Frank

Roasty said:


> What iems are u using?
> I enjoy my A12T and am always amazed at the sound I can get from these small little things. Nice bass, clear up top, full mids, and a very good soundstage too.


U18t, despite how good they are, sometimes I find myself just frustrated without a full headphone set up.


----------



## Roasty

F208Frank said:


> U18t, despite how good they are, sometimes I find myself just frustrated without a full headphone set up.



I guess that can't be helped? I assume you use the iems because the situation calls for it and does not allow for a full headphone setup. The U18T are very good! But in the end opted for the 12 as I felt it was less clinical sounding than the 18.


----------



## F208Frank

Roasty said:


> I guess that can't be helped? I assume you use the iems because the situation calls for it and does not allow for a full headphone setup. The U18T are very good! But in the end opted for the 12 as I felt it was less clinical sounding than the 18.


Your impressions are same as mine. Bass little more on the U12 also. Anyways, after using the Abyss, using anything else becomes little hard in both a bad and good way.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

Have a 2 part video on our youtube channel part 1 now, rest on Monday on Materials and resonance...


----------



## ken6217

MacedonianHero said:


> Plenty of juice and won't break a sweat driving these headphones. Just make sure your source is up for the task, these headphones are VERY detailed and revealing. Congrats!



I'm using a Simaudio 600i V2 speaker amp and Metrum Pavane Level 3 DAC with my TC (and Superconductor cable). What a musical and detailed sound.


----------



## BrowChan

Hey members of Abyss Army, I just wanted to share a tip (may or may not work for you) if no one did this before (I have found none). I had been struggling to get the right fit (for almost four weeks) with the TC and I always felt the left driver had more bass (left earlobe vibrates) than the right and a problem with bass distortion when the pads aren't positioned properly. No matter which time o'clock I tried, I didn't find much luck. Actually, I did in the middle, but it was not satisfying as I had to have the position pretty explicit limiting any movement/motion to bear.
HOWEVER, if there is Yes, there is No. There is also This, which is what I called the 'Negative Fit'. Make a complete 180 with the pads and fit them between 10-11 o'clock. Boom......which is what I got...literally. With this fit, I just move the TC back or front depending on whether I want more or less bass (yes, you can adjust the quantity with just a small push or pull). The tilting is as you like. This also felt a little more secure to me and, most importantly, both my earlobes vibrate at the same rate. lol


----------



## F208Frank

I'm not exactly jumping for joy to hear that your headphones have different bass levels...

How old is your TC?


----------



## Litlgi74

BrowChan said:


> Hey members of Abyss Army, I just wanted to share a tip (may or may not work for you) if no one did this before (I have found none). I had been struggling to get the right fit (for almost four weeks) with the TC and I always felt the left driver had more bass (left earlobe vibrates) than the right and a problem with bass distortion when the pads aren't positioned properly. No matter which time o'clock I tried, I didn't find much luck. Actually, I did in the middle, but it was not satisfying as I had to have the position pretty explicit limiting any movement/motion to bear.
> HOWEVER, if there is Yes, there is No. There is also This, which is what I called the 'Negative Fit'. Make a complete 180 with the pads and fit them between 10-11 o'clock. Boom......which is what I got...literally. With this fit, I just move the TC back or front depending on whether I want more or less bass (yes, you can adjust the quantity with just a small push or pull). The tilting is as you like. This also felt a little more secure to me and, most importantly, both my earlobes vibrate at the same rate. lol


So are you saying that the seams are at 10 and 2 on the back of your head?


----------



## ken6217

I always have the same bass issue on the left side as well. I tried doing want you said a while ago but it was too uncomfortable. The wide part the was in the front and felt weird.


----------



## BrowChan (Mar 1, 2020)

F208Frank said:


> I'm not exactly jumping for joy to hear that your headphones have different bass levels...
> 
> How old is your TC?


My TC is almost 4 weeks old. I thought the more-bass-from-left thing was because of the position of the earpads (also need to take the face symmetry into consideration). But once I did the NF (Negative Fit) I could feel the bass uniformly with no imbalance.
Also, when using the normal fit, at one point I could get the balanced rumble but that, as aforementioned, required me to have them fit me at a strict position with very little motion.



Litlgi74 said:


> So are you saying that the seams are at 10 and 2 on the back of your head?


Yeah, between 10-11 on the back of my head or 1-2 from the other standpoint.



ken6217 said:


> I always have the same bass issue on the left side as well. I tried doing want you said a while ago but it was too uncomfortable. The wide part the was in the front and felt weird.


They feel a little weird at first, but I got used to it and I kinda like it more than before. As for being uncomfortable, you will need to stretch the HP till you feel little clamp or tilt the frame back a little while/after you extend the frame. Try that, and it may work.


----------



## Roasty

I saw someone here mention cardas golden presence interconnects, and I got curious and ordered a set off ebay. They arrived recently and I hooked them up between the Holo Spring 2 and Woo Audio 22. I also hooked up a recently acquired Uptone EtherRegen. 

I think I'm pretty much almost there.. Short of a WA33.. 

Adding the SC cable to the TC Phi, it is the most pleasant and enjoyable sound I've had so far in my headphone journey. The fullness and richness of the sound is really amazing. 

I don't know if it's cardas cable, EtherRegen or SC cable which brought the difference, or whether it is the Holo dac after running in continuously for the past 2 weeks; part of me wished I had added on each component separately and after careful listening to see what changes each component brought about, but the other part of me says honestly I just don't care right now and just wanna enjoy the music. 

I did do some quick a/b between sc cable and moon audio silver dragon. Only a few days of running in the SC cable though. 

- soundstage SC clear winner. 
- 3d/holographic feel SC clear winner. 
- SC fuller mid bass and mids. Feels a bit thick/blurry between bass and mid bass.
- low bass extension SC clear winner oh my goodness the low extension and rumble are so good
- silver dragon clearer and sparkly highs and more air up top
- silver dragon tighter bass, more punchy too. SC feels just very slightly less impactful, and less immediate sounding. 

Overall sound from the SC I would describe as very 3d sounding, massive soundstage with rich luscious sound and no brightness up top.

I think the SC is an amazing complement to the TC Phi and can really show the capabilities of the 1266 in soundstage and low end. I also enjoy how it helped with the thinness of the mids/highs.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Roasty said:


> I saw someone here mention cardas golden presence interconnects, and I got curious and ordered a set off ebay. They arrived recently and I hooked them up between the Holo Spring 2 and Woo Audio 22. I also hooked up a recently acquired Uptone EtherRegen.
> 
> I think I'm pretty much almost there.. Short of a WA33..
> 
> ...


Nice. I’m a big fan of the SC too. And yeah, the WA33 will definitely add some additional quality.

I know you mentioned you added all 3 components at once, but I’m curious (and if possible), can you explain how the etherREGEN improved your sound?  I’m very interested.  They’re always sold out, so I guess it’s probably a good product. I probably should pull the trigger, but new orders are delayed until April.  Also, are you using a standard power supply, or are you using the linear LPS-1.2?


----------



## Roasty (Mar 1, 2020)

Ciggavelli said:


> Nice. I’m a big fan of the SC too. And yeah, the WA33 will definitely add some additional quality.
> 
> I know you mentioned you added all 3 components at once, but I’m curious (and if possible), can you explain how the etherREGEN improved your sound?  I’m very interested.  They’re always sold out, so I guess it’s probably a good product. I probably should pull the trigger, but new orders are delayed until April.  Also, are you using a standard power supply, or are you using the linear LPS-1.2?



The EtherRegen was added a few days ago. I'll be honest and say at present I don't know how it affected the sound, but once all my newly added components have "settled down", I will try removing the EtherRegen and see if there is any change in sound.

I saw some guys talk about it here and again my curiosity got the better of me. Plus they have the 30 day trial so I figured why not. Also, a number of people have reported improvements with the ER. But I went into it knowing that at the end of the day, even if the improvements are all in my mind, I'm OK with that too..

I have an ultracaps lps 1.2 coming in the mail, and a Curious Evolved USB cable on order. Am looking at ordering a Triode Wire Labs ethernet cable and possibly their speaker cables and xlr interconnects as well.


----------



## Jon L

Roasty said:


> - SC fuller mid bass and mids. Feels a bit thick/blurry between bass and mid bass.
> - silver dragon clearer and sparkly highs and more air up top
> - silver dragon tighter bass, more punchy too. SC feels just very slightly less impactful, and less immediate sounding.



I can't stand "thick/blurry" bass and treasure immediacy and "life."  
Do you have the stock Abyss Phi TC Alumiloy cable to compare?


----------



## Roasty

Jon L said:


> I can't stand "thick/blurry" bass and treasure immediacy and "life."
> Do you have the stock Abyss Phi TC Alumiloy cable to compare?



I do have the stock cable. Haven't used it for a while, but yes you are right, will be interesting to compare the two again.


----------



## ekfc63 (Mar 2, 2020)

I’m currently using the stock cable.  Have listened and love certain aspects of the SC but have concerns about the bass bleed that I’ve read about. Must spend more time listening


----------



## Roasty

ekfc63 said:


> I’m currently using the stock cable.  Have listened and love certain aspects of the SC but have concerns about the bass bleed that I’ve read about. Must spend more time listening



Mine are pretty early impressions. Also not discounting that some of the sound I hear may be brought on by the cardas cables, which I've read do sound warm and lush (and also if you subscribe to that chain of thought). Having said that, I find that the overall sound I'm getting is actually quite enjoyable.. 

Probably one of the minor niggles with the SC cable that I have is that the L and R cables exit the 4 pin xlr plug in swapped position, ie, the individual cables will cross over once before entering my headphones. Purely aesthetic, I know.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> I do have the stock cable. Haven't used it for a while, but yes you are right, will be interesting to compare the two again.



I never heard the stock cable. I have the superconductor cable and sounds great. With that said, I’m wondering if the thick blurry (great description btw) sound that I have been trying to fix is from the cable. I’ve been looking at other areas. Never thought of looking at the headphone cable.


----------



## ken6217

I tried doing that negative fit with the ear pad orientation. Makes negative sense, for me 

Besides the fact that the fit and comfort is horrible, regardless how I adjust it. It kills the soundstage, the transparency, the tonality,


----------



## BrowChan

ken6217 said:


> I tried doing that negative fit with the ear pad orientation. Makes negative sense, for me
> 
> Besides the fact that the fit and comfort is horrible, regardless how I adjust it. It kills the soundstage, the transparency, the tonality,


Lol, that’s fine. Just thought I’d put it out there since it worked for me.
Thanks for trying and feedback though!


----------



## ken6217

I don’t have the


BrowChan said:


> Lol, that’s fine. Just thought I’d put it out there since it worked for me.
> Thanks for trying and feedback though!



It’s good that you recommended trying. That’s what the forum is about.


----------



## BrowChan

ken6217 said:


> I don’t have the
> 
> 
> It’s good that you recommended trying. That’s what the forum is about.


Yeah, I will keep y’all posted if I find anything interesting or I need any help. After all, y’all have been helpful in my purchase decision. Been going through this forum since December 2019.


----------



## tholt

BrowChan said:


> Hey members of Abyss Army, I just wanted to share a tip (may or may not work for you) if no one did this before (I have found none). I had been struggling to get the right fit (for almost four weeks) with the TC and I always felt the left driver had more bass (left earlobe vibrates) than the right and a problem with bass distortion when the pads aren't positioned properly. No matter which time o'clock I tried, I didn't find much luck. Actually, I did in the middle, but it was not satisfying as I had to have the position pretty explicit limiting any movement/motion to bear.



I also find fit can be finicky with the 1266. It never seems like the two earpads are perfectly aligned on my ears -- I'm always more aware of the right side's physical presence and pressure vs the left. It's like the right earpad touches my ear more or something. Anyway, one thing I found that I believe helps (or at least doesn't hurt) is to make sure your drivers are physically aligned. Collapse the frame all the way in and not toed in/out. Remove your earpads and then look down the middle at both drivers. I realized that my left driver was toed in more than the right. It takes some doing to bend the aluminum frame even just a little, but I managed to make it so that both drivers are aligned. This seemed to help with sound cohesion and balance. While you have the frame without earcups, you can also see if the frame arms are bent outward/inward to the same degree.

Not something you might think about but just like in a stereo setup with speakers, alignment and uniformity can definitely affect sound.


----------



## BrowChan

tholt said:


> I also find fit can be finicky with the 1266. It never seems like the two earpads are perfectly aligned on my ears -- I'm always more aware of the right side's physical presence and pressure vs the left. It's like the right earpad touches my ear more or something. Anyway, one thing I found that I believe helps (or at least doesn't hurt) is to make sure your drivers are physically aligned. Collapse the frame all the way in and not toed in/out. Remove your earpads and then look down the middle at both drivers. I realized that my left driver was toed in more than the right. It takes some doing to bend the aluminum frame even just a little, but I managed to make it so that both drivers are aligned. This seemed to help with sound cohesion and balance. While you have the frame without earcups, you can also see if the frame arms are bent outward/inward to the same degree.
> 
> Not something you might think about but just like in a stereo setup with speakers, alignment and uniformity can definitely affect sound.


Oh yeah, I concur. Since this is a floating and super customizable type headphone, face symmetry also places a big role (IMO). I tried bending in/out the frame, like you mentioned, a little before while experimenting various methods. I was getting frustrated as I'm not the type to figure out things quickly, and I was also enrolled in impatience. I will give them a shot again, since we share similar problem and it worked for ya, once my Abyss listening hype tames down, lol. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## llamaluv

So on the question of bass response using different cables, I was chatting about this with @ken6217, which led me to doing a quick three-way test between the stock cable, the Lazuli Ultra (using an affinitycables adapter), and the WireWorld Nano Platinum Eclipse (also using an affinitycables adapter). I listened to music off of just one album, Tool's Fear Inoculum, which has a very tight, punchy, and kind-of dry treatment to its bass drums, tom toms, and bass guitar. All using my Pass Labs speaker amp.

The Lazuli Ultra is what I've been using with the TC exclusively for the past 2-3 months. So going back to the stock cable, I was pleasantly reminded of how dynamic and "reactive" the stock cable sounds in general, in a way that suits this album very well. But with this cable only, I definitely get the sense that others have referred to about it sounding a little muddy, and lacking in texture, and that it could be uncontrolled with a mix that takes the bass too far. That being said, it was my favorite for this quick test and sounded the most "musical".

The Ultra is more even-keeled, extracts more detail and air around notes when there is space for it to do so, has less bass punch, and does best with the "genteel"-sounding instrumental jazz pap that I usually listen to on a daily basis, not so much with this recording.

The Platinum Eclipse was equally or faster-sounding to the stock cable in terms of bass, just a sha-a-ade less of it, definitely more controlled, textured, and of higher quality, but with this specific signal chain I'm referring to is just too bright.

I don't have a pithy take-away to share coming out of this, just that this quick test reaffirmed my own experience that the stock cable's bass can be a little muddy compared to others but is also in general very enjoyable. 

And then something about synergy something something.


----------



## ekfc63 (Mar 2, 2020)

Thanks for that.  The search for the "perfect" cable goes on....


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ekfc63 said:


> Thanks for that.  The search for the "perfect" cable goes on....



I tested the stock cable vs lazuli ultra vs norne 18awg silver (a custom cable). From the time it took changing the cables, all differences are abstract and minor- a flavor , so to say. I tend to chose the perfect cable by ergonomics and looks .


----------



## Hoegaardener70

So, if any head-fiers are visiting this thread thinking of buying the ab-1266tc or not... here is what I (and even more importantly my wife, who is more concerned about audio expenses than sound) can report... other headphones just come across as flat and boring and/or without oomph. 

I yesterday directly compared three dacs on my ifi iCan pro. i initially used the Stellia for the test, and I then repeated it with the abyss. The objective was comparing dacs (Hugo2, a DAP and an ifi micro bl), but I could with the critical listening not help to compare headphones. What a huge difference it is. As said, the Stellia was flat, a bit boring and not having the bass oomph I like. And the Stellia is by no means a bad headphone, the ab-1266 just happens to be in a different league.


----------



## ken6217

After playing around and experimenting with headphone cables, power cables, interconnects cables, and digital cables, I realize how resolving the TC‘s are, and that’s why it’s so easy to detect all of the different nuances that we hear that people are posting about.

Believe it or not, I resolved the boomy bass issue with my TC’s by changing the power cable to my DAC. Who would’ve thought?


----------



## Jon L

ken6217 said:


> After playing around and experimenting with headphone cables, power cables, interconnects cables, and digital cables, I realize how resolving the TC‘s are, and that’s why it’s so easy to detect all of the different nuances that we hear that people are posting about.
> 
> Believe it or not, I resolved the boomy bass issue with my TC’s by changing the power cable to my DAC. Who would’ve thought?



I have NO idea what people are talking about with "boomy bass issue."  Not at all....  Then again, I am using interconnects, power cables, etc that have survived in my system over the years by pure sound quality and performance.


----------



## ken6217

Jon L said:


> I have NO idea what people are talking about with "boomy bass issue."  Not at all....  Then again, I am using interconnects, power cables, etc that have survived in my system over the years by pure sound quality and performance.



Congratulations.


----------



## Bonddam

i just realized that my head has to stay still. If I move it the bass lessen on one side.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Bonddam said:


> i just realized that my head has to stay still. If I move it the bass lessen on one side.


A solution is to get a rocking chair, rock back and forth with the music, and keep your head in the same position.

I love to head nod to music, and I can do it (kinda) with the rocking chair method. The TCs stay in the same place and I can groove to the music


----------



## Bonddam

Ciggavelli said:


> A solution is to get a rocking chair, rock back and forth with the music, and keep your head in the same position.
> 
> I love to head nod to music, and I can do it (kinda) with the rocking chair method. The TCs stay in the same place and I can groove to the music


Got get one.


----------



## astrostar59

Nice idea. But besides that cool idea, a super comfy armchair for listening mandatory IMO.


----------



## NZtechfreak

My next purchase is going to be a Stressless chair, probably Mayfair in black leather.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

TOTL: Why we don't use Mylar- Materials and resonances part 2


----------



## Jon L

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I tested the stock cable vs lazuli ultra vs norne 18awg silver (a custom cable). From the time it took changing the cables, all differences are abstract and minor- a flavor , so to say. I tend to chose the perfect cable by ergonomics and looks .



Interesting.  I would have expected the all-silver Norne 18 awg to sound substantially different from the stock cable. 

I made some Abyss cables using Duelund DCA20GA wire, which does sound quite a bit different from the stock cable.  It is actually sounding better than I expected given the modest cost, synergizing especially well with rock, metal, and recordings of borderline quality.  It definitely brings great tone, bass power while maintaining quite a bit of detail.  




Duelund by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## BrowChan

Little deviation from cables, but does anyone have an EQ profile for the TC that pertains to the Harman curve or, maybe, what you think is a better EQ setting? I am not good at EQing. Some tracks can be a little fatiguing, when listening for longer periods to me at a relatively high volume (say, 10-12 o'clock on my BasX with Audirvana cum Tidal) at which point the elevated highs (perhaps because of my AMP or DAC) can be dazzling to my ears. Also, I think the mids could be a little more forward.


----------



## Arniesb

BrowChan said:


> Little deviation from cables, but does anyone have an EQ profile for the TC that pertains to the Harman curve or, maybe, what you think is a better EQ setting? I am not good at EQing. Some tracks can be a little fatiguing, when listening for longer periods to me at a relatively high volume (say, 10-12 o'clock on my BasX with Audirvana cum Tidal) at which point the elevated highs (perhaps because of my AMP or DAC) can be dazzling to my ears. Also, I think the mids could be a little more forward.


Eq up mid from 1.5khz to 4hz by 3db. Many headphones have dip in there and this dip make mids sound thin and it also creates ilusion of big soundstage, but at a cost of sharpness. Speakers dont have weirdness in mids, because there is no cups in speakers.


----------



## BrowChan

Arniesb said:


> Eq up mid from 1.5khz to 4hz by 3db. Many headphones have dip in there and this dip make mids sound thin and it also creates ilusion of big soundstage, but at a cost of sharpness. Speakers dont have weirdness in mids, because there is no cups in speakers.


Thanks for that. I was thinking there are specific bands that need the attention, but not the entire range (1.5khz-4khz)? What of the Highs? Do you have presets for them like how Oratory does it? I just started Roon trial and am relying on their EQ feature. The highs seem to be a bit smoother but need to listen more.


----------



## Arniesb

BrowChan said:


> Thanks for that. I was thinking there are specific bands that need the attention, but not the entire range (1.5khz-4khz)? What of the Highs? Do you have presets for them like how Oratory does it? I just started Roon trial and am relying on their EQ feature. The highs seem to be a bit smoother but need to listen more.


Im very noob when it comes to eq so i just eq up 1.8khz and 2.5khz by about 3db on Foobar and it works fine for me. Also silver is not good in case headphones have dip in mids cause it just exagerate mid dip even more and will make it sound even thinner.


----------



## tholt

Jon L said:


> I have NO idea what people are talking about with "boomy bass issue." Not at all.... Then again, I am using interconnects, power cables, etc that have survived in my system over the years by pure sound quality and performance.


The only 'boomy' bass I've experienced is when the pads are rotated so there is a big hole at the bottom that acts like a huge port, and the frame was extended all the way out. It wasn't so much the drivers as it was the way things were configured. Bringing in the frame and/or rotating the pads mostly alleviated this.



BrowChan said:


> the elevated highs (perhaps because of my AMP or DAC) can be dazzling to my ears. Also, I think the mids could be a little more forward.


My experience as well. Seems to be part of the sound sig of these headphones. Switching to an EL-84 tube amp, R2R DAC and Cardas cables (i.e. warmish upstream components with great soundstage capabilities) helped tremendously to balance out those traits. I tried EQ'ing briefly (Roon) but I'm no expert either and decided my efforts didn't help enough to keep in the long run.


----------



## BrowChan

Arniesb said:


> Im very noob when it comes to eq so i just eq up 1.8khz and 2.5khz by about 3db on Foobar and it works fine for me. Also silver is not good in case headphones have dip in mids cause it just exagerate mid dip even more and will make it sound even thinner.


I see. Appreciate it, nonetheless. I will try it out again and see what else I can do. Guess this is a foster for me to gain some EQ and FR knowledge. 
By Silver, you mean cables? The only one I have is the stock cable that comes with the lite package.



tholt said:


> My experience as well. Seems to be part of the sound sig of these headphones. Switching to an EL-84 tube amp, R2R DAC and Cardas cables (i.e. warmish upstream components with great soundstage capabilities) helped tremendously to balance out those traits. I tried EQ'ing briefly (Roon) but I'm no expert either and decided my efforts didn't help enough to keep in the long run.


Well, guess one choice for me is to keep saving up for better sources. I do wonder though, if getting in touch with Oratory would help. But I reckon that would require me send my cans to him, which would suck since they're the only cans I will have left once I return the other one.


----------



## tholt

Jon L said:


> I made some Abyss cables using Duelund DCA20GA wire, which does sound quite a bit different from the stock cable. It is actually sounding better than I expected given the modest cost, synergizing especially well with rock, metal, and recordings of borderline quality. It definitely brings great tone, bass power while maintaining quite a bit of detail.


Cool idea! It would definitely sound different than stock. I could see the traits of that cable working well with the Abyss and poorer recordings. That's a nice alternate to stock for a more rounded and golden tone.


----------



## Arniesb

BrowChan said:


> I see. Appreciate it, nonetheless. I will try it out again and see what else I can do. Guess this is a foster for me to gain some EQ and FR knowledge.
> By Silver, you mean cables? The only one I have is the stock cable that comes with the lite package.
> 
> 
> Well, guess one choice for me is to keep saving up for better sources. I do wonder though, if getting in touch with Oratory would help. But I reckon that would require me send my cans to him, which would suck since they're the only cans I will have left once I return the other one.


Its not that hard when there isnt much flaws like from V shaped headphones... You cant fix those.
P.S yeah cables.


----------



## BrowChan

Arniesb said:


> Its not that hard when there isnt much flaws like from V shaped headphones... You cant fix those.
> P.S yeah cables.


Right, but I don't really think the TC is V-shaped, unless I am misunderstood something. But you're right, I think EQ'ing the mids up, for example, wouldn't make it sound thick and more natural as it would with better sources or cables. I mean, they have their reasons for existing too. Speaking of cables, I feel it is better to invest in sources more than that 'given my gear as they don't rank up'. I need to know for myself how much difference that would bring out, maybe, by auditioning.


----------



## Jon L

BrowChan said:


> Thanks for that. I was thinking there are specific bands that need the attention, but not the entire range (1.5khz-4khz)?



You can study the Abyss frequency response measurements from this article and try to EQ more specific frequency bands.  Decent boost centered around 5kHz will likely be most beneficial, and the 3kHz desired peak could also be boosted a little more.  

However, I always seem to end up with more satisfying end result, more pure and vivid, by tweaking the tubes, cables, and other system parts compared to EQ'ing...


----------



## BrowChan

Jon L said:


> You can study the Abyss frequency response measurements from this article and try to EQ more specific frequency bands.  Decent boost centered around 5kHz will likely be most beneficial, and the 3kHz desired peak could also be boosted a little more.
> 
> However, I always seem to end up with more satisfying end result, more pure and vivid, by tweaking the tubes, cables, and other system parts compared to EQ'ing...


Thank you, that seems to help me with EQ'ing. I will look in other components later once I have the funds. Spending on the TC drained my wallet.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Jon L said:


> You can study the Abyss frequency response measurements from this article and try to EQ more specific frequency bands.  Decent boost centered around 5kHz will likely be most beneficial, and the 3kHz desired peak could also be boosted a little more.
> 
> However, I always seem to end up with more satisfying end result, more pure and vivid, by tweaking the tubes, cables, and other system parts compared to EQ'ing...




I will say it again. I am not sure about these graphs. The Abyss is so dependent on fit that it would be easy to get different results with slight changes in fit and position.


----------



## BrowChan

CreditingKarma said:


> I will say it again. I am not sure about these graphs. The Abyss is so dependent on fit that it would be easy to get different results with slight changes in fit and position.


You're right on that. But I think it gives some sort of reference or an idea, enabling us to tweak accordingly. Also, I think the sources affect the FR, but I should not have much say in it.


----------



## CreditingKarma

BrowChan said:


> You're right on that. But I think it gives some sort of reference or an idea, enabling us to tweak accordingly. Also, I think the sources affect the FR, but I should not have much say in it.


How is the bass with the abyss?


----------



## BrowChan (Mar 7, 2020)

CreditingKarma said:


> How is the bass with the abyss?


When I first auditioned the LCD-'4' 'for' about 'four' mi..sorry (I wanted to, lol)..10 minutes, it was like I could see the bass and feel it, probably, because it was slow (not in a bad way). Now TC, the bass is FAST, and it feels like a seduction which is another type of flavor (I like that, of course). I really like the tightness, cleanliness, and it gives me this tactility that I never had with any other can. I usually EQ the bass up (did with every headphone I owed prior to this), but I don't want to with Abyss because I am happy with the way it is for now. What entices me is that I feel that it can get better with better gear based on what I've been reading around.
If any negative point, it distorts (even treble) at high volumes and with certain tracks only for which I could try to eliminate most of the distortion with a tighter seal. This could also be because of the track or my source, not sure.

Also, I swear to my anime emotions, I never listened to any headphone for so long and so much excitement as I do with the TC.....every single day. I have been listening to even the boring tracks I usually don't. I am able to listen to more and more music.

That said, I want to try out the LCD-4 again and this time for a week or even a month, if possible. Don't know how that's gonna work though.


----------



## F208Frank

I went from LCD4 to Abyss myself. I used to LOVE the LCD4. It is great for most songs but some songs just come out a little bit overly colored.


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## BrowChan (Mar 8, 2020)

F208Frank said:


> I went from LCD4 to Abyss myself. I used to LOVE the LCD4. It is great for most songs but some songs just come out a little bit overly colored.


Yeah, I am 95% confident that I won't be switching to it because the TC has a couple of things I really like. The 4 is something I want to experience for a while cause it was what made me spend so much on headphones. I would like to keep as another flavor but no cash for it. Maybe in the future, but I assume there will be a better LCD by then.

Honestly though, after learning about CanJam impressions I am more interested in comparing the LCD 4 with the DMS Diana Phi.


----------



## CreditingKarma

BrowChan said:


> When I first auditioned the LCD-'4' 'for' about 'four' mi..sorry (I wanted to, lol)..10 minutes, it was like I could see the bass and feel it, probably, because it was slow (not in a bad way). Now TC, the bass is FAST, and it feels like a seduction which is another type of flavor (I like that, of course). I really like the tightness, cleanliness, and it gives me this tactility that I never had with any other can. I usually EQ the bass up (did with every headphone I owed prior to this), but I don't want to with Abyss because I am happy with the way it is for now. What entices me is that I feel that it can get better with better gear based on what I've been reading around.
> If any negative point, it distorts (even treble) at high volumes and with certain tracks only for which I could try to eliminate most of the distortion with a tighter seal. This could also be because of the track or my source, not sure.
> 
> Also, I swear to my anime emotions, I never listened to any headphone for so long and so much excitement as I do with the TC.....every single day. I have been listening to even the boring tracks I usually don't. I am able to listen to more and more music.
> ...



sorry that was a typo I meant how is the basx with the abyss?

the bass on the abyss. Better than my old lcd 4z for sure.


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## BrowChan (Mar 8, 2020)

CreditingKarma said:


> sorry that was a typo I meant how is the basx with the abyss?
> 
> the bass on the abyss. Better than my old lcd 4z for sure.


No problem. I don’t think I’m the right person for you to ask as I don’t have another source (other than the Micro BL which I haven’t tried with) to compare and find the difference. Once I do that, I’ll let you know what I think by Monday.
I didn’t hear the Abyss on anything other than the BasX. I have been using that as my main amp since last year prior to which I used to have the Atom but sold it soon.


----------



## 471724

Jon L said:


> You can study the Abyss frequency response measurements from this article and try to EQ more specific frequency bands.  Decent boost centered around 5kHz will likely be most beneficial, and the 3kHz desired peak could also be boosted a little more.
> 
> However, I always seem to end up with more satisfying end result, more pure and vivid, by tweaking the tubes, cables, and other system parts compared to EQ'ing...



I agree. But I think sometimes EQing is a necessity anyway because of excessively large irregularities in the FR that can't be tuned out by such tweaking. The tradeoff is that the numerical digital processing used in EQ systems inevitably introduces various sorts of (usually subtle) veiling, smoothing over of details, colorations, hardnesses, distortions, etc. It's a matter of deciding whether the tradeoff is worth it. I have found that the Toneboosters adjustable parametric EQ that comes as a purchasable add-on app embedded in the UAPP USB Android music player software app that I use is very good and introduces minimal such distortions if it is carefully adjusted. Unfortunately this Toneboosters parametric equalizer has only 6 sections or bands, and they are relatively broad in frequency coverage. But this broadness of each band is deliberate in part in order to minimize ringing and other time distortions encountered with narrow band equalizers.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Hi everybody I am looking for a bit of help from the owners of the formula s. Do any of you experience hiss from the amp when it is turned up about 75% or higher? It is almost the same as the hiss you get with sensitive iems.


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## jlbrach

not me


----------



## Roasty

There is someone selling the Formula S and Powerman combo in the classifieds. This is getting me curious..

Has anyone compared the combo to a HPA4 or any other SS amp? Keen to hear your thoughts/opinions.


----------



## FLTWS

CreditingKarma said:


> Hi everybody I am looking for a bit of help from the owners of the formula s. Do any of you experience hiss from the amp when it is turned up about 75% or higher? It is almost the same as the hiss you get with sensitive iems.



No, but I don't think I've ever had to turned it up as high as even 50%!


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## jlbrach

jump on the formula s/powerman combo...it is marvelous


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## justonwo

Has anyone else had an issue with a hot spot beneath the leather pad? I can't go for more than an hour or so without the top of my head starting to hurt. I guess that isn't surprising given that the design results in a relatively small contact area. I tried Abyss's pad but that actually makes the problem worse. Great sound but I can't wear them as long as I'd like.


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## ken6217

Check out this page. This will give you some ideas. Page 653 as well.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/page-652


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## Litlgi74

justonwo said:


> Has anyone else had an issue with a hot spot beneath the leather pad? I can't go for more than an hour or so without the top of my head starting to hurt. I guess that isn't surprising given that the design results in a relatively small contact area. I tried Abyss's pad but that actually makes the problem worse. Great sound but I can't wear them as long as I'd like.


Maybe Dekoni Nuggets would help...

https://dekoniaudio.com/product/dekoni-audio-nuggets-headphone-headband-pressure-relief-pads-4-pack/


----------



## Delacaff

Message to Phi and TC owners.

An active member of the french forum "tellementnomade.org" has shared an EQ setting for the Abyss Phi based on several measures he made. I tried his EQ despite having a TC and Oh my, the output is spectacular. Totally. 
- Trebles are now sweet as honey but still vivid, 
- Mediums have presence like never before,
- Trebles and mediums are balanced perfectly,
- Scene is totally insane! Depth is not a strength of my XI Audio combo. The EQ generates an impressive holographic scene, not kidding.

All in all, the Abyss hasn't lost a dime of its original personality  but some < how to name them if Joe is reading this post > are corrected, let's say for my taste. 

I have auditioned this EQ with Audirvana coupled with a professional Parametric EQ plug-in called FabFilter Q Pro 3. If you play music with Audirvana, just forget Apple's Parametric EQ. It's just a crap. I have experienced it. If playing with Roon, can't say what the output will be.

Post on the EQ for Abyss : http://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=21753&start=930#p759802
Menu of EQ settings for Abyss and other headphones : http://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=309&t=21753
Fabfilter (30-days free evaluation version) : https://www.fabfilter.com/products/pro-q-3-equalizer-plug-in

• 1100 Hz | -5.00 dB | Q: 3.00 (Bell)
• 2025 Hz | +3.00 dB | Q: 3.00 (Bell)
• 5000 Hz | +3.00 dB | Q: 4.00 (Bell)
• 6100 Hz | -4.00 dB | Q: 5.00 (Bell)
• 7200 Hz | +3.00 dB | Q: 5.00 (Bell)
• 8200 Hz | -3.00 dB | Q: 5.00 (Bell)
• Global Output : -3.00 dB

If like me you perceive that the bass sort of are bleeding, apply this additional settings. The gentleman who produced these additional EQ settings took into account the measures brought by "hifinews.co.uk" for the TC :

• 35 Hz | –2 dB | Q=2.5 (Bell)
• 150 Hz | +2.5 dB | Q=2 (Bell)
• Global Output : -3.00 dB (of course)


----------



## BrowChan

Delacaff said:


> Message to Phi and TC owners.
> 
> An active member of the french forum "tellementnomade.org" has shared an EQ setting for the Abyss Phi based on several measures he made. I tried his EQ despite having a TC and Oh my, the output is spectacular. Totally.
> - Trebles are now sweet as honey but still vivid,
> ...


Definitely appreciate that post. How is it compared with EQuick and/or EQuilibruim?


----------



## ken6217

How do you incorporate these equalizers into your own dedicated streamer with their own proprietary software?


----------



## Delacaff

BrowChan said:


> Definitely appreciate that post. How is it compared with EQuick and/or EQuilibruim?


Can't say. FabFilter is the first EQ plug-in that I purchased following Alphatak advice (Alphatak is the surname of the gentleman who produced the EQ settings)


----------



## Delacaff

ken6217 said:


> How do you incorporate these equalizers into your own dedicated streamer with their own proprietary software?



What streamer do you have?
To computer users : I have a headless MacMini dedicated to music. Once you have downloaded Fabfilter EQ, all you have to do is launch Audirvana and choose Fabfilter plug-in in the related menu. It's a no brainer.


----------



## ken6217

Delacaff said:


> What streamer do you have?
> To computer users : I have a headless MacMini dedicated to music. Once you have downloaded Fabfilter EQ, all you have to do is launch Audirvana and choose Fabfilter plug-in in the related menu. It's a no brainer.



I’m using Euphony Audio with a headless NUC.
I’ll have to check with Euphony.


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## Delacaff (Mar 14, 2020)

ken6217 said:


> I’m using Euphony Audio with a headless NUC.
> I’ll have to check with Euphony.


Euphony allows third-party software like HQPlayer for upsampling. EQ softwares are just another types of third-party plug-in.
Roon allows HQPlayer and other plug-ins. Make sense Euphony do as it is an OS. Good luck


----------



## ken6217

Delacaff said:


> Euphony allows third-party software like HQPlayer for upsampling. EQ softwares are just another types of third-party plug-in.
> Roon allows HQPlayer and other plug-ins. Make sense Euphony do as it is an OS. Good luck



Thanks. I emailed them asking how to integrate it.


----------



## Roasty

thanks for the recommendation!

using Roon EQ to try it out..
is it supposed to look like this? wasn't sure what (BELL) meant.. is it peak/dip?


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## Delacaff (Mar 14, 2020)

Roasty said:


> thanks for the recommendation!
> using Roon EQ to try it out..
> is it supposed to look like this? wasn't sure what (BELL) meant.. is it peak/dip?



Comparing your curve and mine (no offense ) yes, it seems that Roon's Peak/dip is "Bell".

Look at the bottoms and tops on the corrected frequencies, they look like bells or up side down bells.

Note that I have no idea who has provided the parametric EQ software to Roon. Try the Q Pro 3 in its evaluation mode (30 days free). Then you'll have a clue on Roon PEQ quality.


----------



## Roasty

Delacaff said:


> Comparing your curve and mine (no offense ) yes, it seems that Roon's Peak/dip is "Bell".
> 
> Look at the bottoms and tops on the corrected frequencies, they look like bells or up side down bells.
> 
> Note that I have no idea who has provided the parametric EQ software to Roon. Try the Q Pro 3 in its evaluation mode (30 days free). Then you'll have a clue on Roon PEQ quality.



ah yes, thank you very much. i should have clicked on the first link in your post (saw a similar looking curve there) rather than just clicking on the second link to see if any of my other headphones had EQ..! cheers for that.


----------



## alphatak

Many thanks Delacaff for publishing the EQ on HF. I can answer a few technical questions if necessary.

Roasty, your EQ in roon is fine, but the algorithm is slightly different than fabfilter"s. If you want to get exactly the same result, decrease a little bit the value of Q (around 15%). For example, Q=2 in fabfilter is close to Q=1.7 in roon. Anyway, it really doesn't make a big difference.


----------



## CreditingKarma

jlbrach said:


> not me



I think that it has something to do with the inputs on the formula s they are the xls inputs and it don't think that they are set up for a balanced connection. In the manual for the Bartok it says that if the output is connected to an unbalanced xls it can cause some hiss. So I need to look for a formula s with a rca input or use adapters. Maybe the search for a new amp just continues.


----------



## justonwo

ken6217 said:


> Check out this page. This will give you some ideas. Page 653 as well.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/page-652



Very good. Thanks. Abyss has offered to help with some of the modification materials.


----------



## Litlgi74

I gave it a shot... Didn't hear a tremendous difference...maybe I'm doing something wrong?


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## alphatak (Mar 14, 2020)

Nothing is wrong, your EQ is fine. But you forgot the 3dB negative gain with the vertical slider (to avoid clipping).
The impact of the EQ is not tremendous (it's still an Abyss), and it depends on the kind of music you are listening.


----------



## ken6217

alphatak said:


> Nothing is wrong, your EQ is fine. But you forgot the 3dB negative gain with the vertical slider (to avoid clipping).
> The impact of the EQ is not tremendous (it's still an Abyss), and it depends on the kind of music you are listening.



And your other related equipment, as well as your hearing, and how you like to hear your music.


----------



## alphatak (Mar 14, 2020)

Absolutely. The aim of my EQ is sort of neutralization which ensures a realistic sounding of the acoustic instruments (I'm mostly listening classical music). So, the EQ may be considered as a base that you can adapt to your own preferences. No headphones are universal, neither are the EQs.


----------



## Roasty

I preferred it without the 2 bands of eq down low. The rest of the EQ is not bad. Subtle changes in that it feels more polite up top, and I agree it does slightly even out the mids and highs but at the same time I feel without eq it seems more "exciting".


----------



## CreditingKarma

So I just got my cable to power my 1266 with a speaker amp. I am surprised how good they sound with my Hegel H360. The amp puts out 250w into 8ohms and with the abyss it still takes till about 30-40 out of 99 to get to a good listening level. 

The bass hits harder than any headphone amp I have ever tried. The sound stage is really large with great imaging. The biggest issue is that I need to unhook my speakers to listen to the 1266 and the reconnect them.

Perhaps I should search for another speaker amp for the abyss.


----------



## BrowChan

CreditingKarma said:


> So I just got my cable to power my 1266 with a speaker amp. I am surprised how good they sound with my Hegel H360. The amp puts out 250w into 8ohms and with the abyss it still takes till about 30-40 out of 99 to get to a good listening level.
> 
> The bass hits harder than any headphone amp I have ever tried. The sound stage is really large with great imaging. The biggest issue is that I need to unhook my speakers to listen to the 1266 and the reconnect them.
> 
> Perhaps I should search for another speaker amp for the abyss.


Isn't that harmful to the TC in the long run?


----------



## CreditingKarma

BrowChan said:


> Isn't that harmful to the TC in the long run?



There are many folks here that run them off speaker amps as their only amp. I am just trying it out right now. They do sound great this way.


----------



## BrowChan

CreditingKarma said:


> There are many folks here that run them off speaker amps as their only amp. I am just trying it out right now. They do sound great this way.


Right, so using them as the main amp could do harm then? I heard another person or two say similar things you said as to how good they sound with them.


----------



## CreditingKarma

BrowChan said:


> Right, so using them as the main amp could do harm then? I heard another person or two say similar things you said as to how good they sound with them.



You a basically powering them with a speaker amp using the emotiva. There is a jumper that you can use in the amp to send the full 50watrs to the headphone output.


----------



## BrowChan

CreditingKarma said:


> You a basically powering them with a speaker amp using the emotiva. There is a jumper that you can use in the amp to send the full 50watrs to the headphone output.


Yeah, that’s right. I use the jumpers installed. I heard some headphone AMPs have similar power delivery to about 42Ohms (7W per channel). So I was thinking that is okay. But I didn’t know much about ‘actual’ speaker AMPs, that have more than 100W into 8Ohms.


----------



## CreditingKarma

That would put a 100w amp at about 14 watts into 42 ohms. 250 w would be about 36 watts into 42 ohms. I would say you need to be careful with speaker amps and the abyss for sure. It is easy to get carried away with volume if you are not careful. It is all about what toy are looking for. I understand the allure of a speaker amp but I also fell like the formula s has a better tonal balance with the abyss.


----------



## BrowChan

CreditingKarma said:


> That would put a 100w amp at about 14 watts into 42 ohms. 250 w would be about 36 watts into 42 ohms. I would say you need to be careful with speaker amps and the abyss for sure. It is easy to get carried away with volume if you are not careful. It is all about what toy are looking for. I understand the allure of a speaker amp but I also fell like the formula s has a better tonal balance with the abyss.


I see. Is the Formula S one of the stack that Linus carries? I heard some say it was too bright. I’d have to try it out myself to know though.


----------



## CreditingKarma

BrowChan said:


> I see. Is the Formula S one of the stack that Linus carries? I heard some say it was too bright. I’d have to try it out myself to know though.



I would not call the formula s bright. It is an amp that presents what it is fed. It is detailed but not fatiguing to my ears. With the powerman is is truly special. It is revealing of the upstream gear maybe with a sabre dav it could seem bright. I pair it with a dCS Bartok and it sounds detailed and smooth at the same time.


----------



## Delacaff (Mar 17, 2020)

CreditingKarma said:


> So I just got my cable to power my 1266 with a speaker amp. I am surprised how good they sound with my Hegel H360. The amp puts out 250w into 8ohms and with the abyss it still takes till about 30-40 out of 99 to get to a good listening level.
> 
> The bass hits harder than any headphone amp I have ever tried. The sound stage is really large with great imaging. The biggest issue is that I need to unhook my speakers to listen to the 1266 and the reconnect them.
> 
> Perhaps I should search for another speaker amp for the abyss.



I had a similar experience with the listening of the TC on the Aries Cerat Diana amp. It said how far the Abyss can go. It simply was outstanding. There is a limited choice of headphone amps to reach comfortable power output : Riviera AIC 10, Viva Audio Egoista, Woo Audio W33 for instance. They amount 12-14 kUSD. So I would think about it twice and rather put my money on a new speaker amp to power headphones and speakers rather than piling up dedicated amps (one for headphone, one for speakers).

As of Formula S which I have (with Powerman BTW), I confirm your review but it doesn't provide the sound experience of your Hegel, nor those of a Riviera or a Viva Egoista.


----------



## Delacaff

Litlgi74 said:


> I gave it a shot... Didn't hear a tremendous difference...maybe I'm doing something wrong?



Roon provides an incredible media experience but this is the last I will opt for for sound quality unless it is coupled with HQ Player. As a stand alone player, I found the sound to be sort of veiled, with poor instruments separation and tonal richness. I doubt any EQ can make it sound better but I will give it a try for A/B comparison.


----------



## F208Frank

Delacaff said:


> Roon provides an incredible media experience but this is the last I will opt for for sound quality unless it is coupled with HQ Player. As a stand alone player, I found the sound to be sort of veiled, with poor instruments separation and tonal richness. I doubt any EQ can make it sound better but I will give it a try for A/B comparison.


Why do you think Roon with HQ Player sounds better? Not a sarcastic question in case you misunderstand, I'm really asking because for example for me, Lumin App with my Lumin Streamer sounds better than with Roon.

Absolutely love the Roon interface though.


----------



## F208Frank

Delacaff said:


> I had a similar experience with the listening of the TC on the Aries Cerat Diana amp. It said how far the Abyss can go. It simply was outstanding. There is a limited choice of headphone amps to reach comfortable power output : Riviera AIC 10, Viva Audio Egoista, Woo Audio W33 for instance. They amount 12-14 kUSD. So I would think about it twice and rather put my money on a new speaker amp to power headphones and speakers rather than piling up dedicated amps (one for headphone, one for speakers).
> 
> As of Formula S which I have (with Powerman BTW), I confirm your review but it doesn't provide the sound experience of your Hegel, nor those of a Riviera or a Viva Egoista.


Damn you know a lot of exotic amps. How did you obtain all this knowledge? I was always curious about the AIC10, it was Simorag who introduced me to it with his review.

But I'm currently stopping by search for gear as it was sort of consuming my life for a good 2 months or so.


----------



## Delacaff

F208Frank said:


> Why do you think Roon with HQ Player sounds better? Not a sarcastic question in case you misunderstand, I'm really asking because for example for me, Lumin App with my Lumin Streamer sounds better than with Roon.
> 
> Absolutely love the Roon interface though.


I have the following players : Roon, HQplayer, Amarra, Audirvana.
HQPlayer is a sound engine and a very elaborated up sampler. It can play your music by itself but HQP's interface is a crap. When embedded in Roon, HQP's sound engine substitute to those of Roon and then, the sound experience is  great. Then the upsampling mode is up to you and many options are provided. In this case (Roon + HQP), Roon provides its amazing interface only.
For the record, HQP is also a third-party sound engine for Euphony OS which can play your music as a stand-alone solution but I assume that here again, the sound experience is far much better with HQP.


----------



## Delacaff

F208Frank said:


> Damn you know a lot of exotic amps. How did you obtain all this knowledge? I was always curious about the AIC10, it was Simorag who introduced me to it with his review.
> 
> But I'm currently stopping by search for gear as it was sort of consuming my life for a good 2 months or so.



I have only experienced the Riviera once. I know the Viva Audio Egoista and the WA33 by specifications. The Wells Audio HeadTrip and The Mass Kobo 406 are (expansive) options too with a lots of juice.


----------



## F208Frank

Delacaff said:


> I have the following players : Roon, HQplayer, Amarra, Audirvana.
> HQPlayer is a sound engine and a very elaborated up sampler. It can play your music by itself but HQP's interface is a crap. When embedded in Roon, HQP's sound engine substitute to those of Roon and then, the sound experience is  great. Then the upsampling mode is up to you and many options are provided. In this case (Roon + HQP), Roon provides its amazing interface only.
> For the record, HQP is also a third-party sound engine for Euphony OS which can play your music as a stand-alone solution but I assume that here again, the sound experience is far much better with HQP.


So you are saying Roon with HQplayer will sound better than Roon by itself even when not using any upsampling features of HQ player?


----------



## Delacaff

F208Frank said:


> So you are saying Roon with HQplayer will sound better than Roon by itself even when not using any upsampling features of HQ player?


Yep !
And upsampling can be a plus, pending on your taste and equipment. As far as me, I upsample audio files from PCM to DSD64. It provides a larger scene and more analog sound quality. In other words, some times, you don't need to seek for the highest upsampling mode.


----------



## F208Frank

Delacaff said:


> Yep !
> And upsampling can be a plus, pending on your taste and equipment. As far as me, I upsample audio files from PCM to DSD64. It provides a larger scene and more analog sound quality. In other words, some times, you don't need to seek for the highest upsampling mode.


I am just baffled by how Roon is such a highly regarded software, costs quite a bit, but does not sound as good as others. Interface is amazing hands down for sure, but what is the technical reasoning behind Roon sounding not as good as HQ Player?


----------



## JLoud

Delacaff said:


> I had a similar experience with the listening of the TC on the Aries Cerat Diana amp. It said how far the Abyss can go. It simply was outstanding. There is a limited choice of headphone amps to reach comfortable power output : Riviera AIC 10, Viva Audio Egoista, Woo Audio W33 for instance. They amount 12-14 kUSD. So I would think about it twice and rather put my money on a new speaker amp to power headphones and speakers rather than piling up dedicated amps (one for headphone, one for speakers).
> 
> As of Formula S which I have (with Powerman BTW), I confirm your review but it doesn't provide the sound experience of your Hegel, nor those of a Riviera or a Viva Egoista.


I am running the Woo WA5le 2nd gen. It outputs 8 watts into 42 ohms. Also my HeadAmp GSX mk2 is 6 watts. Both drive my TC very easily with lots of headroom. Sound great too.


----------



## Delacaff

F208Frank said:


> I am just baffled by how Roon is such a highly regarded software, costs quite a bit, but does not sound as good as others. Interface is amazing hands down for sure, but what is the technical reasoning behind Roon sounding not as good as HQ Player?


I don't know why Roon may not sound as good as others but that's my feeling. Paul McGowan - founder of  PS Audio, says the same. Roon is a keeper for audio aficionados when it has to do with library management and music content but for music quality, you'd better couple it with HQP. Or change your player.


----------



## F208Frank

Delacaff said:


> I don't know why Roon may not sound as good as others but that's my feeling. Paul McGowan - founder of  PS Audio, says the same. Roon is a keeper for audio aficionados when it has to do with library management and music content but for music quality, you'd better couple it with HQP. Or change your player.


Do you happen to have the link to Paul stating Roon not sounding good? I'm quite shocked.


----------



## Delacaff (Mar 17, 2020)

F208Frank said:


> Do you happen to have the link to Paul stating Roon not sounding good? I'm quite shocked.


I have crossed P McG point of view lately. On the PS Audio blog. He said he much preferred Audirvana on Roon + Roon has the least audio quality compared to others.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Delacaff said:


> I have crossed P McG point of view lately. On the PS Audio blog. He said he much preferred Audirvana on Roon + Roon has the least audio quality compared to others.



I am not sure about the benefit of hq player for someone who is using the mscaler or a dCS dac like a Bartok or rossini. The mscaler and Bartok both upsample and the Bartok upsamples to either dxd or dsd. I understand the allure of hq player for someone running a lower level dac but once you get to totl dacs I am not sure there is much benefit.


----------



## Delacaff (Mar 17, 2020)

CreditingKarma said:


> I am not sure about the benefit of hq player for someone who is using the mscaler or a dCS dac like a Bartok or rossini. The mscaler and Bartok both upsample and the Bartok upsamples to either dxd or dsd. I understand the allure of hq player for someone running a lower level dac but once you get to totl dacs I am not sure there is much benefit.


I second that. I doesn't make sense at all to make a computer upsample the audio files with MScaler and Bartok.
I think that F208Frank is rather questioning the impact of the sound engine of a player (Roon, HQP, Audirvana...) aside its ability of upsampling or not. As always, I think that the best way to gauge the quality of a sound engine is to test it.
From my experience, Roon Audirvana and Amarra convey a different sound quality. Amarra is the most "analog" with great relief. Audirvana is the most transparent and accurate. Roon (not coupled with HQP) is... lets say, far from being my type. I purchased Roon with life-time subscription + HQP also. I don't use it anymore despite I love Roon's UI. I turned to Audirvana again (after leaving it aside quite a long time finding it too resolving, not very emotionnally involving) because it allows third-party plug-in like the Pro Q 3 Parametric Equaliser. This EQ helped me to take the best out of the TC.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Delacaff said:


> I don't know why Roon may not sound as good as others but that's my feeling. Paul McGowan - founder of  PS Audio, says the same. Roon is a keeper for audio aficionados when it has to do with library management and music content but for music quality, you'd better couple it with HQP. Or change your player.



Best audio purchase I made in 2018! Bought the lifetime subscription and I couldn't be happier!


----------



## CreditingKarma

MacedonianHero said:


> Best audio purchase I made in 2018! Bought the lifetime subscription and I couldn't be happier!



I don't think that the user experience can be beat by another program currently.


----------



## Litlgi74

CreditingKarma said:


> I don't think that the user experience can be beat by another program currently.


I just wish Tidal's top tracks was working properly... But apparently they don't care to fix it.


----------



## F208Frank

Delacaff said:


> I second that. I doesn't make sense at all to make a computer upsample the audio files with MScaler and Bartok.
> I think that F208Frank is rather questioning the impact of the sound engine of a player (Roon, HQP, Audirvana...) aside its ability of upsampling or not. As always, I think that the best way to gauge the quality of a sound engine is to test it.
> From my experience, Roon Audirvana and Amarra convey a different sound quality. Amarra is the most "analog" with great relief. Audirvana is the most transparent and accurate. Roon (not coupled with HQP) is... lets say, far from being my type. I purchased Roon with life-time subscription + HQP also. I don't use it anymore despite I love Roon's UI. I turned to Audirvana again (after leaving it aside quite a long time finding it too resolving, not very emotionnally involving) because it allows third-party plug-in like the Pro Q 3 Parametric Equaliser. This EQ helped me to take the best out of the TC.


Correct only asking of the sound engine, to this very moment I am jaw dropped that sound engines differ that much. I always had the assumption that all sound engines would be similar and that the gear itself would do all the "talking"

I guess for my case, I will use Roon to browse, Lumin App to listen critically on the Lumin streamer, and on the Antipodes streamer, just use roon by itself and see how it goes from there.


----------



## jlbrach

F208Frank said:


> Do you happen to have the link to Paul stating Roon not sounding good? I'm quite shocked.




paul is building his own roon alternative so there's that....I love roon, think it sounds great with my dave/blu2


----------



## ken6217

The user interface on Roon is excellent, however the sound doesn’t match that same experience.


----------



## ken6217

I’m using a Simaudio 600i V2 speaker amp with my TC and it is fabulous.


----------



## F208Frank

ken6217 said:


> The user interface on Roon is excellent, however the sound doesn’t match that same experience.


What do you use yourself? Do you pair something with Roon or do you use something else completely on its own?


----------



## ken6217

I actually use a simple headless, fanless NUC with a linear power supply running Euphony Audio. Also using an Innous Phoenix Reclocker which has two internal linear power supplies. One for the USB regenerator, and one for the clock. However, it still sounded better than the units below before I got the Phoenix. 


I’ve owned previously, or at the same time an Aurender N10, Innous Zenith Mk3, and an Antipodes DX, and In-line my current setup the best. So musical. Software is key.

You can download it and try it for 30 days free. It also has Roon Core and HQ Playwr embedded, as well as Qobuz and Tidal.


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## Litlgi74 (Mar 18, 2020)

Removed


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## Delacaff

ken6217 said:


> I actually use a simple headless, fanless NUC with a linear power supply running Euphony Audio. Also using an Innous Phoenix Reclocker which has two internal linear power supplies. One for the USB regenerator, and one for the clock. However, it still sounded better than the units below before I got the Phoenix.
> 
> 
> I’ve owned previously, or at the same time an Aurender N10, Innous Zenith Mk3, and an Antipodes DX, and In-line my current setup the best. So musical. Software is key.
> ...



You mention  linear power supplies several times in your post. It seems that powering your computer with LPS makes a huge difference. I am considering to get a Paul Hynes (UK) or Rose Audio (FR) or UpTone model some day in order to fuel my MacMini and external HD.


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## Litlgi74 (Mar 18, 2020)

Delacaff said:


> You mention  linear power supplies several times in your post. It seems that powering your computer with LPS makes a huge difference. I am considering to get a Paul Hynes (UK) or Rose Audio (FR) or UpTone model some day in order to fuel my MacMini and external HD.


I don't know what to think... I installed an Sbooster LPSU to my Lumin T2 streamer... I heard no significant difference (let alone upgrade) in the audio .. I'm kind of disillusioned at this point.


----------



## Delacaff

Litlgi74 said:


> I don't know what to think... I installed an Sbooster LPSU to my Lumin T2 streamer... I heard no significant difference (let alone upgrade) in the audio .. I'm kind of disillusioned at this point.


I assume that LPSU is more significant for non-audiophile device (computer, HDD) than for audiophile grade streamer like Lumin. That saying, it seems that Kenneth Lau produces great LPSU for Lumin. Great but expansive...


----------



## ken6217

Delacaff said:


> You mention  linear power supplies several times in your post. It seems that powering your computer with LPS makes a huge difference. I am considering to get a Paul Hynes (UK) or Rose Audio (FR) or UpTone model some day in order to fuel my MacMini and external HD.



Paul Hynes is good.


----------



## ken6217

Delacaff said:


> I assume that LPSU is more significant for non-audiophile device (computer, HDD) than for audiophile grade streamer like Lumin. That saying, it seems that Kenneth Lau produces great LPSU for Lumin. Great but expansive...



Not so. If you look at a lot of high end audio components they have either a separate LPS or one built in.


----------



## ken6217

Litlgi74 said:


> I don't know what to think... I installed an Sbooster LPSU to my Lumin T2 streamer... I heard no significant difference (let alone upgrade) in the audio .. I'm kind of disillusioned at this point.



I can’t speak for your situation, but not all linear power supplies are the same.


----------



## BrowChan

Delacaff said:


> Message to Phi and TC owners.
> 
> An active member of the french forum "tellementnomade.org" has shared an EQ setting for the Abyss Phi based on several measures he made. I tried his EQ despite having a TC and Oh my, the output is spectacular. Totally.
> - Trebles are now sweet as honey but still vivid,
> ...


Just struck me. The Parametric EQ of Apple sucks, but the NBandEQ seems pretty good. Would be cool to get your and other peoples' output on this. 
This is what it looks like (ignore the presets):


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## 471724 (Mar 18, 2020)

Delacaff said:


> Message to Phi and TC owners.
> 
> An active member of the french forum "tellementnomade.org" has shared an EQ setting for the Abyss Phi based on several measures he made. I tried his EQ despite having a TC and Oh my, the output is spectacular. Totally.
> - Trebles are now sweet as honey but still vivid,
> ...




I just gave this set of suggested EQ settings a try, and am disappointed. I used the Toneboosters parametric EQ embedded in the high-end audiophile UAPP Android USB music player. There were sonic changes, but not to the better, at least for my system and my ears. The primary problem was a loss in micro detail and a pervasive smearing of transients like guitar plucks. I traced this to the high Q values. The smearing went away when they were changed to values of around 0.72 which is near optimum for minimum or no ringing, that is, critical damping. Unfortunately, this sort of Q value while giving optimal damping in the time domain yields a wide gradual frequency band coverage for the filter section.

High Q values of 3 - 5 give very narrow bandwidths for the filter sections  so that for instance the sharp resonance at 5kHz can be selectively eliminated without affecting adjacent bands, but the tradeoff is ringing. Unfortunately, there is no free lunch, so to speak.

The ear-brain system is exquisitely sensitive to time domain errors including smearing of transients as evidenced for instance by our sensitivity to micro-timing delays involved in determining direction of sounds, so EQing with Q values of 3-5 seems to be counterindicated.


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## astrostar59 (Mar 19, 2020)

The issue with any EQ in the digital domain, is it will resample the data, thus create a weaker copy of the original, and losses occur. It is unavoidable. So IMO use EQ to the lowest level possible to negate this effect. Also watch out for saturated samples and going over 0dB limit. Most bass details are already near 0bB so bass boost is pretty off off the table IMO. Better stick with mid range and treble ranges.

In my setup with the Abyss TC, I tuned the sound with cables as opposed to digital EQ.


----------



## BrowChan

astrostar59 said:


> The issue with any EQ in the digital domain, is it will resample the data, thus create a weaker copy of the original, and losses occur. It is unavoidable. So IMO use EQ to the lowest level possible to negate this effect. Also watch out for saturated samples and going over 0dB limit. Most bass details are already near 0bB so bass boost is pretty off off the table IMO. Better stick with mid range and treble ranges.
> 
> In my setup with the Abyss TC, I tuned the sound with cables as opposed to digital EQ.


Only cable upgrade from stock would lean towards the SC from JPS, I assume. I wonder what alternatives are out there that don’t bust the wallet. Can’t comment much on the EQ part as I have very limited knowledge of that, but it is able to do the job with some catches yourself and others mentioned.


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## Delacaff (Mar 19, 2020)

Some additional feedback with this EQ:

• 1100 Hz | -5.00 dB | Q: 3.00 (Bell)
• 2025 Hz | +3.00 dB | Q: 3.00 (Bell)
• 5000 Hz | +3.00 dB | Q: 4.00 (Bell)
• 6100 Hz | -4.00 dB | Q: 5.00 (Bell)
• 7200 Hz | +3.00 dB | Q: 5.00 (Bell)
• 8200 Hz | -3.00 dB | Q: 5.00 (Bell)
• Global Output : -3.00 dB

I listen to D'Angelo's "Untitled" - "Voodoo" album in order to gauge headphones' ability to manage bass and infrabass (texture and definition). This is an amazing track, so is the entire album which we lately celebrated 20th anniversary. The TC plays this track like a champion. In this track, the electric bass digs into such low levels of frequencies. When played with the EQ, the track loses the foundation provided by the bass.

Following Alphatak advice, I lowered the Global Output down to -1,5 dB. This has restored more impactful bass, the Abyss bass signature, which is good. "Untitled" is back, closer to its original nature.

Considering Quadels comment, I then lowered the Q's to valours comprised between 1 and 2. Instruments and voices in the mediums and in the trebles have lost in separation, and the scene has lost in depth too to such extent I immediately noticed it. But all in all, the medium area is more filled and in the foreground, and the scene still is deeper with this EQ vs no EQ (multiple A/B comparison) + the transitions between the mid and highs seem to me better achieved, with no bumps. Sorry, just trying to describe the feeling.

I will keep on finetuning valours of the preamp output and the Q's and let you know.


----------



## 471724

BrowChan said:


> Only cable upgrade from stock would lean towards the SC from JPS, I assume. I wonder what alternatives are out there that don’t bust the wallet. Can’t comment much on the EQ part as I have very limited knowledge of that, but it is able to do the job with some catches yourself and others mentioned.



Concerning alternatives to the stock Abyss cable, which is very good already. I found the Corpse Cables Gravedigger (this manufacturer sure has a black sense of humor) to be considerably better than the standard cable, and relatively inexpensive at about $170. The improvements are in the lucidity, clarity and resolution areas. In comparison the standard JPS cable sounds smeared. However, everything in engineering is a series of tradeoffs, and in this case the bass response of the Gravedigger is a little rolled off, probably because it uses a small 24 AWG Cardas Litz conductor. Shorter cable length helps, and fortunately I was able to get by with 6 ft.


----------



## F208Frank

Interesting, not knocking on that brand as I have no experience with it, but if I were to have never tried, I would have assumed the stock cable from JPS to be better than most cables.

I myself use either stock or the upgrade cable both from JPS, I think JPS was the first headphone I ever owned that came with a decent stock cable. Well LCD4 stock cable was decent/beautiful also.


----------



## BrowChan (Mar 19, 2020)

quadels said:


> Concerning alternatives to the stock Abyss cable, which is very good already. I found the Corpse Cables Gravedigger (this manufacturer sure has a black sense of humor) to be considerably better than the standard cable, and relatively inexpensive at about $170. The improvements are in the lucidity, clarity and resolution areas. In comparison the standard JPS cable sounds smeared. However, everything in engineering is a series of tradeoffs, and in this case the bass response of the Gravedigger is a little rolled off, probably because it uses a small 24 AWG Cardas Litz conductor. Shorter cable length helps, and fortunately I was able to get by with 6 ft.


Aww man. Wouldn’t want that bass to roll off, especially for an Abyss HP. Thanks for the rec though. I will look into it. $165 (from what the website shows me) isn’t bad but I’ll need to hear it myself to truly know that.


----------



## jlbrach

the stock is actually very good, as good as it gets with stock cables


----------



## JLoud

Agreed, stock sounds very good. Just ergonomically terrible. IMO. I went with a Norne Silvergard cable. Sounds very close to stock but feels like the mids are filled out a little. Or everything is more balanced. At least to my taste. And it is a beautiful cable.


----------



## Bonddam

CreditingKarma said:


> Hi everybody I am looking for a bit of help from the owners of the formula s. Do any of you experience hiss from the amp when it is turned up about 75% or higher? It is almost the same as the hiss you get with sensitive iems.


yes I notice it with higher sensitvity cans only


----------



## Delacaff

Bonddam said:


> yes I notice it with higher sensitvity cans only


 Is it on low or high gain position? With sensitive cans, you'd better select low gain and the hiss should disappear. Worth trying at least.


----------



## Bonddam

Delacaff said:


> Is it on low or high gain position? With sensitive cans, you'd better select low gain and the hiss should disappear. Worth trying at least.


I'm only using high gain for 1266 and HEDD. The hiss is with volume control it's not an issue because I would never put the volume to a point of my ears bleeding. I found the hiss to see how black the background is.


----------



## Bonddam

Anyone interested in Formula S and Powerman? I put mine up for sale. Trying to get WA33.


----------



## Arniesb

Bonddam said:


> Anyone interested in Formula S and Powerman? I put mine up for sale. Trying to get WA33.


Hey man, what you liked better? Formula or Headamp Gsx Mini?


----------



## Bonddam

The mini more power at 50 ohms which is needed for EDM. But the Formula S does really good at controlling the 1266. It's tuning of the mini is warm when compared to the Formula S. The highs are better on the Formula S more refined. It is a more neutral. I'm all about power that is why I'm upgrading to bigger amp.


----------



## Arniesb

Bonddam said:


> The mini more power at 50 ohms which is needed for EDM. But the Formula S does really good at controlling the 1266. It's tuning of the mini is warm when compared to the Formula S. The highs are better on the Formula S more refined. It is a more neutral. I'm all about power that is why I'm upgrading to bigger amp.


Ok, but what personally you liked better? If you choose between 2 what you would pick?


----------



## Arniesb (Mar 23, 2020)

Little bit offtopic, but i have to say it... Lots of people talk about power, power and power, but after some time i noticed that People simply want some type of coloration and confuse it with power... Copper also sound heavier than silver, but does it transfer more power?


----------



## Bonddam

I'm into the warmer sound of the mini. I just find it more enjoyable with 1266 phi tc.


----------



## Arniesb

Bonddam said:


> I'm into the warmer sound of the mini. I just find it more enjoyable with 1266 phi tc.


Thats a big thanks! Im very debating Between Headamp Mini and Gsx Mk2 wich have a same sound signature like Formula S.
From many headphones i tried, majority of them need some warmth somewhere in the chain.
Speakers didnt need that much warmth in my book cause they have just simply more body.


----------



## Bonddam

Arniesb said:


> Thats a big thanks! Im very debating Between Headamp Mini and Gsx Mk2 wich have a same sound signature like Formula S.
> From many headphones i tried, majority of them need some warmth somewhere in the chain.
> Speakers didnt need that much warmth in my book cause they have just simply more body.


The gsx mk2 is brighter from what I gathered from a review and owner. I'd go the mk2 route made in America.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Bonddam said:


> The gsx mk2 is brighter from what I gathered from a review and owner. I'd go the mk2 route made in America.


 

I am not sure what the made in america has to do with the sou d quality. The Formula S is a great match with the AB-1266. When you add the powerman it is even better. The dac that you are paring with them can matter even more than the amp.


----------



## Bonddam

CreditingKarma said:


> I am not sure what the made in america has to do with the sou d quality. The Formula S is a great match with the AB-1266. When you add the powerman it is even better. The dac that you are paring with them can matter even more than the amp.


Just trying to step on your toes.


----------



## F208Frank

I think made in america has it's pros, such as when in need of warranty, not needing to send it across the country (sometimes)


----------



## CreditingKarma

F208Frank said:


> I think made in america has it's pros, such as when in need of warranty, not needing to send it across the country (sometimes)



I agree that it can be a pain. With that said I don't think that Joe and his sons would recomend something that they don't stand behind. If you want an example of bad build quality from the US look no further than Wells audio. I have seen the inside of some his amps ($15K headtrip reference 2) the internals of that are a hot mess compared to the formula s or gsx. I don't know how he gets away with charging what he does.


----------



## Bonddam

I'm happy when something is made here as so much is not. Though when I bought Hugo tt2 I was happy it was made in the UK. I don't respect outsourced electronics gotta come from country of origin.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Bonddam said:


> I'm happy when something is made here as so much is not. Though when I bought Hugo tt2 I was happy it was made in the UK. I don't respect outsourced electronics gotta come from country of origin.



I agree with you on this that is part of the appeal of abyss besides how great they sound.


----------



## tholt

Arniesb said:


> Little bit offtopic, but i have to say it... Lots of people talk about power, power and power, but after some time i noticed that People simply want some type of coloration and confuse it with power


I don't think coloration and power can be confused, unless you mean 'coloration' to be thin vs full sounding.


----------



## Bonddam

The mini gives you more body to the bass and the Formula S gives a smoother upper end


----------



## Bonddam

Just went too my cds and came across a good cd  for burning in headphones and it gives you a bunch of stuff to test listen how good they are.


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Mar 24, 2020)

Bonddam said:


> Just went too my cds and came across a good cd  for burning in headphones and it gives you a bunch of stuff to test listen how good they are.



I don't have that one. I like to.  I have these two.


----------



## Bonddam

I competed in 2000 with Focal utopias zapco amps and processors and Imagedynamic subs.


----------



## astrostar59

CreditingKarma said:


> I am not sure what the made in america has to do with the sou d quality. The Formula S is a great match with the AB-1266. When you add the powerman it is even better. The dac that you are paring with them can matter even more than the amp.


Agree. I am not a fan of the GSX MK2. It is too lean and bright, sterile. Much better with the Formula S.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Hi!  I just cared for my abyss pads by using leather milk. Unfortunately, I used a bit too much and it sipped through the holes inside. Is all good once this dries, or is the inside foam subject to moisture damage etc.? Does anybody know -  Cheers


----------



## supervisor

best headphone stand for the Phi TC?


----------



## Delacaff

supervisor said:


> best headphone stand for the Phi TC?



https://www.headphoneauditions.nl/product/haa-abyss-stand/


----------



## supervisor

Delacaff said:


> https://www.headphoneauditions.nl/product/haa-abyss-stand/



290 euros?!


----------



## BrowChan

supervisor said:


> 290 euros?!


Lol, you asked for the best.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Mar 29, 2020)

supervisor said:


> best headphone stand for the Phi TC?



I am very happy with my Audioquest Perch


----------



## Rayzilla

CreditingKarma said:


> So I just got my cable to power my 1266 with a speaker amp. I am surprised how good they sound with my Hegel H360. The amp puts out 250w into 8ohms and with the abyss it still takes till about 30-40 out of 99 to get to a good listening level.
> 
> The bass hits harder than any headphone amp I have ever tried. The sound stage is really large with great imaging. The biggest issue is that I need to unhook my speakers to listen to the 1266 and the reconnect them.
> 
> Perhaps I should search for another speaker amp for the abyss.



Do you have a photo of that cable you could share with us?


----------



## Abyss Headphones

Steve Guttenberg Audiophiliac reviews the AB-1266 TC, calling it "The best sounding headphone on the planet"


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> Have had everything but the Mutek. Those ere toys compared to the Phoenix.


I recently picked up a Innuos Phoenix, and you were 100% right. The other reclockers are toys. Compared to the UpTone ISO regen I was using before, the Phoenix was a big step up. It was immediately noticeable. Blacker background, better separation, more precise bass. Well worth the money.

Now I’m curious to hear their other components. Maybe I’ll try their Zen Mk3


----------



## astrostar59 (Mar 30, 2020)

The 432 EVO range of server is excellent. It outperforms everything we have tried including the Innuos Zenith and Statement units. The 432 EVO High-End model is 3K euros, and has 2 x external LPS supplies, a dedicated (separate board) USB with fast clock and fed by one of the LPS supplies. The 432 EVO range run Roon Core and Logitec Media Server, switchable in 15 seconds.
The 432 hz tuning creates a superbly natural sound, very analogue.
All the full width units are upgradable to the next level, and right up to the highest model - The Master 2 chassis server.


----------



## F208Frank

astrostar59 said:


> The 432 EVO range of server is excellent. It outperforms everything we have tried including the Innuos Zenith and Statement units. The 432 EVO High-End model is 3K euros, and has 2 x external LPS supplies, a dedicated (separate board) USB with fast clock and fed by one of the LPS supplies. The 432 EVO range run Roon Core and Logitec Media Server, switchable in 15 seconds.
> The 432 hz tuning creates a superbly natural sound, very analogue.
> All the full width units are upgradable to the next level, and right up to the highest model - The Master 2 chassis server.


You always have nice stuff it seems. If I was in your country I would for sure visit you.


----------



## ekfc63 (Mar 30, 2020)

A quick question for those using the Chord Dave with XI Audio Formula S/Powerman headamp with volume control. I am using this setup (with MScaler and Abyss TCs). I can adjust the volume with the volume control on either the Dave or Formula S. Is this correct? If so, what ideally should the volume on the Dave be set at? The reason for asking is that when in DAC mode the Dave fixes the output level. This doesn't seem to be the case when used in preamp node. Also can the Dave be run into the Formula S in DAC mode and if so are there any advantages? I'll ask this same question in the Dave thread.  I just thought it would also be relevant to Abyss owners.


----------



## MacedonianHero

I would actually put the DAVE into its "DAC" mode (pg. 8 of the manual) and use the Formula S. That's what I do with my Benchmark HPA4 and DAVE.


----------



## ekfc63

MacedonianHero said:


> I would actually put the DAVE into its "DAC" mode (pg. 8 of the manual) and use the Formula S. That's what I do with my Benchmark HPA4 and DAVE.



Any idea if there are any sound quality advantages to using DAC mode?


----------



## MacedonianHero

ekfc63 said:


> Any idea if there are any sound quality advantages to using DAC mode?



You would get more gain for your amp to drive them (as it sets the DAVE up to -3dB) and is the preferable way of doing things. I would be worried to turn my amp to 100% and forget to turn the DAVE down.


----------



## jlbrach (Mar 30, 2020)

ekfc63 said:


> A quick question for those using the Chord Dave with XI Audio Formula S/Powerman headamp with volume control. I am using this setup (with MScaler and Abyss TCs). I can adjust the volume with the volume control on either the Dave or Formula S. Is this correct? If so, what ideally should the volume on the Dave be set at? The reason for asking is that when in DAC mode the Dave fixes the output level. This doesn't seem to be the case when used in preamp node. Also can the Dave be run into the Formula S in DAC mode and if so are there any advantages? I'll ask this same question in the Dave thread.  I just thought it would also be relevant to Abyss owners.



I have the dave/blu2 setup with the formula s/powerman and I have my dave set to -4....i just find it to be the setting I enjoy most.....the DAC mode would actually be 0 if using the M scaler because there is a 3 DB drop due to the M scaler....in other words using the M scaler you would need to set the dave to zero to be the equivalent to the DAC setting with the dave alone


----------



## ekfc63 (Mar 30, 2020)

jlbrach said:


> I have the dave/blu2 setup with the formula s/powerman and I have my dave set to -4....i just find it to be the setting I enjoy most.....the DAC mode would actually be 0 if using the M scaler because there is a 3 DB drop due to the M scaler....



I just set it to DAC mode and its displaying -3dB just like it says it should in the manual.  I was just thinking that there might be a sound quality bump due to less circuitry in the signal path.


----------



## jlbrach

the dave DAC setting is -3....with the M scaler the equivalent is 0


----------



## yagislav

jlbrach said:


> the dave DAC setting is -3....with the M scaler the equivalent is 0


Do you know what I would set the TT2 for the same result as having DAVE in -3 in pre-amp mode? Is it ok to use these chord DAC's in pre-amp mode exclusively into a headphone amplifier?
I would like to run it in pre-amp as I can control the volume with the chord remote, but cant change the volume of my amp with a remote.
Thank you


----------



## jlbrach (Mar 30, 2020)

I do not use the DAC mode I control the volume of the dave into my formula s because I use different HP's and each sounds better to my ears at different volume combos...in other words I do change the volume on my amp but will change the setting on the dave into the amp from HP to HP...


----------



## CreditingKarma

jlbrach said:


> I do not use the DAC mode I control the volume of the dave into my formula s because I use different HP's and each sounds better to my ears at different volume combos...in other words I do change the volume on my amp but will change the setting on the dave into the amp from HP to HP...



I run my Bartok on 2v output into a formula s. I believe that with the Dave ,TT2, and Bartok you can use the volume control with no negative effect on the sound quality. If I run the Bartok at 0db ( fullvolume) I don't need to turn up the formula s more than about 40% volume. I like to leave the formula around 40-50% volume and adjust with the volume on the dac. It is very convenient as there is no remote for the formula.


----------



## jlbrach

I hear you,that works as well...I have tried both and have settled on setting the dave and controlling volume on the formula s


----------



## astrostar59

Leave it in DAC mode IMO. You don't want to overload the X1 Input. Some amps have the attenuation at the input, others part way through the circuit, so play safe IMO. The DAVE outputs 3v on RCA so 1v above standard anyway. No need IMO to output more than that.


----------



## CreditingKarma

astrostar59 said:


> Leave it in DAC mode IMO. You don't want to overload the X1 Input. Some amps have the attenuation at the input, others part way through the circuit, so play safe IMO. The DAVE outputs 3v on RCA so 1v above standard anyway. No need IMO to output more than that.




The formula s attenuated at the input stage. The inputs are wired directly to the volume pot.


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> I recently picked up a Innuos Phoenix, and you were 100% right. The other reclockers are toys. Compared to the UpTone ISO regen I was using before, the Phoenix was a big step up. It was immediately noticeable. Blacker background, better separation, more precise bass. Well worth the money.
> 
> Now I’m curious to hear their other components. Maybe I’ll try their Zen Mk3



Not sure which USB cables that you’re using, but use your best one for the output to your DAC.


----------



## supervisor

thinking i'm going to pick up a Phoenix this week. retail therapy!


----------



## ken6217

supervisor said:


> thinking i'm going to pick up a Phoenix this week. retail therapy!



The beauty of the retail therapy is that after you buy the component, you can then buy a power cable.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> Not sure which USB cables that you’re using, but use your best one for the output to your DAC.


Yeah, I have a Danacables TruStream from my Phoenix to DAC.  I'm using a SilverDragon Moon-Audio cable from my PC to Phoenix.  I need a 10ft one due to some spacing issues, so I'm using the Moon-Audio one for the time being.  I'm looking at feeding the Phoenix with another TruStream or perhaps a Curious Cable USB


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> Yeah, I have a Danacables TruStream from my Phoenix to DAC.  I'm using a SilverDragon Moon-Audio cable from my PC to Phoenix.  I need a 10ft one due to some spacing issues, so I'm using the Moon-Audio one for the time being.  I'm looking at feeding the Phoenix with another TruStream or perhaps a Curious Cable USB



It would be good if you could get a shorter cable than 10 feet. Regardless, keep the cable from the Phoenix to you DAC short. Not more than 1.5 meter. Thats a definite.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> It would be good if you could get a shorter cable than 10 feet. Regardless, keep the cable from the Phoenix to you DAC short. Not more than 1.5 meter. Thats a definite.


Yeah, I actually got Danacables to make me a .5m usb cable.  So that is going from the Phoenix to my DAC.  I was reading up on reclockers on AudioBacon, and he suggested less than a meter, so I got the .5m Danacables TruStream.  I'll replace the 10 ft cable after I figure out a better placement situation.


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> Yeah, I actually got Danacables to make me a .5m usb cable.  So that is going from the Phoenix to my DAC.  I was reading up on reclockers on AudioBacon, and he suggested less than a meter, so I got the .5m Danacables TruStream.  I'll replace the 10 ft cable after I figure out a better placement situation.



Sounds good.


----------



## phase0

astrostar59 said:


> Leave it in DAC mode IMO. You don't want to overload the X1 Input. Some amps have the attenuation at the input, others part way through the circuit, so play safe IMO. The DAVE outputs 3v on RCA so 1v above standard anyway. No need IMO to output more than that.



In the pro audio world I think they call it gain staging:


> Gain staging is the process of managing the relative levels in each step of an audio signal flow to prevent introduction of noise and distortion



You don't want the level to be too quiet because your amp will amplify everything including the noise floor. You don't want it too loud as you will clip/distort. DAC mode should give you that perfect signal level.


----------



## jlbrach

depends on the HP...DAC mode with the Utopia would not allow you to use much of the amps volume while DAC mode with Susvara would allow you to extend the amps gain....


----------



## Àedhàn Cassiel

Has anyone done measurements of the Phi compared to the OG anywhere? It seems like most of the reviewers stopped with the OG. Tyll never followed up with the Phi for example.


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Apr 9, 2020)

measurements won't tell you how any audio product sounds playing music. Measurements are performed using test tones, typically 1kHz.

TC is even more transparent than Phi CC. Both are superior to the original 1266.


----------



## Àedhàn Cassiel (Apr 9, 2020)

Whatever the demerits of measurements may be, they certainly communicate more useful information than someone else's personal opinion when you likely have different tastes, listen to different music, etc. For example, what one person would call "bass-lite" another person would call "neutral." Correlating that to the numbers on the graph is really the only way to allow the two of them to communicate anything meaningful. The graph would show you that they aren't disagreeing over the actual properties of the headphone, they just have different tastes in how much bass volume one should have. I'm not trying to argue about measurements, just find out if anyone knows where any are... That said, the biggest reason I'm interested in the Abyss is I'm personally convinced soundstage is the one trait headphones differ in that doesn't show up in FR at all, and drivers held away at a distance deliver more of it.


----------



## Jon L

Well, who would've thought it?  Abyss Phi TC is sounding GREAT from Schiit Jotunheim R (for Raal SR1a) *IF* driven via DIY 4-pin female XLR to 4-pin female XLR adapter (different pinout than normal headphones). This is the regular Jotunheim reworked to deal with Raal's extremely low impedance and need for high current delivery, so perhaps low impedance planars that thrive on current do well here. 




0408201821 by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## BrowChan (Apr 10, 2020)

Jon L said:


> Well, who would've thought it?  Abyss Phi TC is sounding GREAT from Schiit Jotunheim R (for Raal SR1a) *IF* driven via DIY 4-pin female XLR to 4-pin female XLR adapter (different pinout than normal headphones). This is the regular Jotunheim reworked to deal with Raal's extremely low impedance and need for high current delivery, so perhaps low impedance planars that thrive on current do well here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well well. How better is it than the other AMPs that cost below and above $1K for Abyss? If this is very good I might replace my BasX for it. Leave a review here if you can.

What’s funny is that I completed overlooked this pairing. JR (I don’t own it yet but I heard it) is priced pretty good for what it’s offering.


----------



## Jon L

BrowChan said:


> Well well. How better is it than the other AMPs that cost below and above $1K for Abyss? If this is very good I might replace my BasX for it. Leave a review here if you can.
> 
> What’s funny is that I completed overlooked this pairing. JR (I don’t own it yet but I heard it) is priced pretty good for what it’s offering.



I asked Schiit if this was safe, and they said it won't hurt anything but "not recommended" due to low wattage developed by Jot R relative to Jot despite gobs of current Jot R generates.  However, Abyss/Jot R is able to get as loud as I want with authority.  Abyss/Jot R combo is sounding good enough that I am going back and forth with Raal/JotR and shaking my head.  I sure wish I had a regular Jotunheim here to compare, but I can't keep buying more and more stuff this month...


----------



## DJJEZ

could a benchmark HPA4 drive these headphones well?


----------



## BrowChan

Jon L said:


> I asked Schiit if this was safe, and they said it won't hurt anything but "not recommended" due to low wattage developed by Jot R relative to Jot despite gobs of current Jot R generates.  However, Abyss/Jot R is able to get as loud as I want with authority.  Abyss/Jot R combo is sounding good enough that I am going back and forth with Raal/JotR and shaking my head.  I sure wish I had a regular Jotunheim here to compare, but I can't keep buying more and more stuff this month...


Thanks for that. Would using an adapter help to deal with the wattage issue (I’m not an expert, so I might have misunderstood it)? Sound quality better than any AMPs that cost over $1K from your experience?


----------



## F208Frank

DJJEZ said:


> could a benchmark HPA4 drive these headphones well?


Most definitely. I used hpa4 with great results. Joe from Abyss also praises that pairing.


----------



## DJJEZ

F208Frank said:


> Most definitely. I used hpa4 with great results. Joe from Abyss also praises that pairing.



Awesome thanks


----------



## MacedonianHero

DJJEZ said:


> Awesome thanks



I used my Phi TC when reviewing this amazing amp here:
https://www.headphone.guru/the-benchmark-hpa4-headphone-amplifier-the-leader-in-transparency/

Bought the amp after the review as I was so thoroughly impressed.


----------



## jlbrach

the amp has the exact same power rating as the formula s/powerman which was built to be ised with the abyss TC ....and the formula s also works great with the susvara FWIIW


----------



## DJJEZ

jlbrach said:


> the amp has the exact same power rating as the formula s/powerman which was built to be ised with the abyss TC ....and the formula s also works great with the susvara FWIIW



Much prefer the aesthetics of the HPA4


----------



## F208Frank

I'd have to agree there. The build looks much more polished on the HPA4.


----------



## jlbrach

the build on the formula s while little flash is very solid and well built


----------



## CreditingKarma

jlbrach said:


> the build on the formula s while little flash is very solid and well built



I agree it is built like a tank IMO. The ability to add the powerman is great as it improves the amp with a black background and improved dynamics to my ear. I would like to compare the HPA4 directly as some point in time. I don't require the additional features that the HPA4 has though as Bartok can do all that the HPA4 does. The benchmark is cheaper by a large amount compared to the formula s and powerman so there is that to consider as well. The formula s is full class a as well though.


----------



## Roasty

Those of you who have tried.. Does headphone amp single ended topology lose out in any way to a fully balanced path? Contemplating formula/powerman.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Roasty said:


> Those of you who have tried.. Does headphone amp single ended topology lose out in any way to a fully balanced path? Contemplating formula/powerman.



I have fully balanced with my liquid platinum and a se design with the formula s. I think that it all comes down to the way that the amp is designed. the true benefit in balanced is extra power sometimes and also if you are doing extremely long cable runs like with pro audio. There it is a plus due to superior noise rejection. I would suggest a formula s with RCA inputs. I ended up needing to use adapters with the one that I have as the way that the xlr inputs are wired doesn't want to play nicely with my Bartok. I plan to have the XLR switched to RCA after the current cover crisis is past us.

I highly recommend the formula s with the TC tough it is a great pairing.


----------



## radnor

Hey there I have a brand new susvara I am willing to trade for a Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC. Anyone interested let me know. I am in SF Bay area so we could swap in person if in Cali.

thanks


----------



## DJJEZ

MacedonianHero said:


> I used my Phi TC when reviewing this amazing amp here:
> https://www.headphone.guru/the-benchmark-hpa4-headphone-amplifier-the-leader-in-transparency/
> 
> Bought the amp after the review as I was so thoroughly impressed.





Roasty said:


> Those of you who have tried.. Does headphone amp single ended topology lose out in any way to a fully balanced path? Contemplating formula/powerman.



On a HPA4 i read single ended and balanced performance is identical. Cant speak for formula/powerman


----------



## MacedonianHero

DJJEZ said:


> On a HPA4 i single ended and balanced performance is identical. Cant speak for formula/powerman



Actually single-ended output is 1/2 the power of balanced. Inputs (like the GS-X mini) can be either...thankfully. The Formula/Powerman is a single-ended amp front to back. Both are outstanding choices for the Phi TC headphones.


----------



## joseph69

MacedonianHero said:


> Actually single-ended output is 1/2 the power of balanced.


A few HF members where once at my place and we were discussing this, but were unsure if this was the case with all balanced amps.
Is this true for all balanced amps, or does it depends on the topology?


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> A few HF members where once at my place and we were discussing this, but were unsure if this was the case with all balanced amps.
> Is this true for all balanced amps, or does it depends on the topology?


Yes balanced gives you 6v and SE generally 2v but sometimes 3v. But that doesn't always equate to better sound quality. Many of the high level amps are single ended with a transformer to 'make' balanced, and actually sound better SE.
The Violectric V281 was an unusual case in that it DID sound better on balanced, partly as it had 2 more amp boards it used on balanced.


----------



## Roasty

astrostar59 said:


> Yes balanced gives you 6v and SE generally 2v but sometimes 3v. But that doesn't always equate to better sound quality. Many of the high level amps are single ended with a transformer to 'make' balanced, and actually sound better SE.
> The Violectric V281 was an unusual case in that it DID sound better on balanced, partly as it had 2 more amp boards it used on balanced.



Thanks for that info! 

I'm doing a home demo for Stellia and using it on my HPA4. Tried the single ended cable and then the balanced xlr, and the balanced out does sound better. On the single ended, the highs are in your face and harsh/bright. But they're pulled back a bit and lesser in volume and harshness with the balanced cable. Also seems fuller in the bass section.


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> Yes balanced gives you 6v and SE generally 2v but sometimes 3v. But that doesn't always equate to better sound quality. Many of the high level amps are single ended with a transformer to 'make' balanced, and actually sound better SE.
> The Violectric V281 was an unusual case in that it DID sound better on balanced, partly as it had 2 more amp boards it used on balanced.


Yes, we were all aware that balanced doesn't necessarily sound better than SE, but we were unsure if all balanced amps use half their power SE vs balanced. I know my GS-X only uses half it power SE from a discussion I had with @MacedonianHero a while back, but as mentioned, we weren't too sure if this applies to all. Thanks.


----------



## astrostar59

It doesn't apply to all amps, in fact the majority of amps are NOT truly balanced. Why is that? Because you effectively have to make double the gain stage, double the costs. Most use a transformer or similar to crate a suedo balanced configuration.

IMO if an amp designer spent that money only on SE it would result in a better performance based on the extra funds available for the parts / construction costs.

Creating balanced with tubes IMO is also not so easy as (depending on the topology) you may need a perfect set of tubes to 'mirror' the circuit. Not easy.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

joseph69 said:


> Yes, we were all aware that balanced doesn't necessarily sound better than SE, but we were unsure if all balanced amps use half their power SE vs balanced. I know my GS-X only uses half it power SE from a discussion I had with @MacedonianHero a while back, but as mentioned, we weren't too sure if this applies to all. Thanks.



True, it doesn't always half of power when single ended. It could be only quarter of power when single ended compare to balance output. However, afaik, it depends on the amp system and impedance of the headphones.

Questyle CMA 12
https://www.questyle.com/en/product/CMA-twelve

Compare to SE, Balance out produce (roughly) 4 times more power at high impedance headphone and (roughly) 2 times more power at low impedance headphone.


----------



## MacedonianHero

joseph69 said:


> Yes, we were all aware that balanced doesn't necessarily sound better than SE, but we were unsure if all balanced amps use half their power SE vs balanced. I know my GS-X only uses half it power SE from a discussion I had with @MacedonianHero a while back, but as mentioned, we weren't too sure if this applies to all. Thanks.



Like most things in life...it depends.  

I prefer the HPA4 balanced with every headphone (except the Hedd Audio Heddphones) balanced FWIW.


----------



## jlbrach

is the hpa4 double the power in balanced mode?


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 13, 2020)

I do not believe so, but can not say for sure. I vaguely remember asking Benchmark team and I remembered answer to be "no."

Also Benchmark general thought is to "use balanced when possible" with all their components.

I'm not the most technical guy, but I go by manufacturer word and my own trial and error and though I feel XLR delivers more power than single ended on the HPA4, it is not double.


----------



## jlbrach

interesting on the amps I have owned with balanced out the power rating was always double or therabout


----------



## MacedonianHero (Apr 13, 2020)

jlbrach said:


> is the hpa4 double the power in balanced mode?



The 6W (into 16 ohms) I believe is run in balanced outputs (inputs don't matter with this balanced amp).


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 13, 2020)

jlbrach said:


> is the hpa4 double the power in balanced mode?




according to this review of the HPA4. it says both SE and balanced have the same power.

https://www.headphone.guru/the-benchmark-hpa4-headphone-amplifier-the-leader-in-transparency/

'Both outputs deliver the full performance and power of the HPA4! So there is no need to run out and purchase a balanced cable for your specific headphones!  '


----------



## Ciggavelli

I go fully balanced from my DAVE to WA33 to TCs. Compared to single ended, balanced sounds better and has more authority in the bass. I’ve tried SE with the TCs, and you can definitely hear a difference when going fully balanced. However, Woo Audio did design the WA33 to be fully balanced though, to be fair.


----------



## MacedonianHero (Apr 13, 2020)

DJJEZ said:


> according to this review of the HPA4. it says both SE and balanced have the same power.
> 
> https://www.headphone.guru/the-benchmark-hpa4-headphone-amplifier-the-leader-in-transparency/
> 
> 'Both outputs deliver the full performance and power of the HPA4! So there is no need to run out and purchase a balanced cable for your specific headphones!  '



Pfft...what does that guy know?  Forgot that one...thanks for the reminder. Damn middle aged memory. I mixed this up with the GS-X mini (which I also reviewed and currently own) and it requires balanced outputs but not inputs (the opposite to the HPA4). FWIW, both are brilliant and driving the Phi TC.


----------



## joseph69

MacedonianHero said:


> Like most things in life...it depends.
> 
> I prefer the HPA4 balanced with every headphone (except the Hedd Audio Heddphones) balanced FWIW.


Thank you, Peter.


----------



## Litlgi74

You guys have got to hear this... Especially tracks one and three. Phenomenal!


https://tidal.com/album/132520534


----------



## Jon L

Litlgi74 said:


> You guys have got to hear this... Especially tracks one and three. Phenomenal!
> 
> https://tidal.com/album/132520534



Thanks for the suggestion.  I do like deep voices like that.  A few more decades, and he'll sound like one of my favorites, Chip Taylor.


----------



## astrostar59

I think there is a confusing subject , on balance connection to a pre-amp so pre out, and balanced from a headphone socket such as a 4 pin out
A headset wired as balanced is very different. Balanced for pre out is designed to be able to do longer cable runs.


----------



## BrowChan

Some bass flap like drying your towels by flapping, but controlled, consistent, and leveled. 




 Some guitar and punches.


----------



## yagislav

Has anybody tried driving the TC's directly via the rear dual 3 pin xlr on the TT2?


----------



## supervisor

BrowChan said:


> Some guitar and punches



my client produced this


----------



## BrowChan

supervisor said:


> my client produced this


Woah, really? Recently ran into it. One of my favorites! It has a unique BGM to its genre. Would be awesome to talk more here or, if many messages, through PM.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Just picked the Phi TC's up recently and definitely, they do almost everything right and are phenomenal. My only real gripe is the bass distortion on select* songs (typically those that are more bass heavy) while listening at higher volumes. Most songs are absolutely fine, but some are just unlistenable at higher volumes. 

I was thinking maybe the TC's could use more power than the GSX Mini can provide, but it honestly seems like they drive them pretty well. And combing through this thread it seems like it may just be an issue across the board regardless of amp? Can anyone help to confirm? Is there anything that can help outside of turning them down or EQ'ing?


----------



## TheMiddleSky

number1sixerfan said:


> Just picked the Phi TC's up recently and definitely, they do almost everything right and are phenomenal. My only real gripe is the bass distortion on select* songs (typically those that are more bass heavy) while listening at higher volumes. Most songs are absolutely fine, but some are just unlistenable at higher volumes.
> 
> I was thinking maybe the TC's could use more power than the GSX Mini can provide, but it honestly seems like they drive them pretty well. And combing through this thread it seems like it may just be an issue across the board regardless of amp? Can anyone help to confirm? Is there anything that can help outside of turning them down or EQ'ing?



what specific songs that you found produce "distortion"?


----------



## number1sixerfan

TheMiddleSky said:


> what specific songs that you found produce "distortion"?



I'll have to revisit tonight and bring some specific tracks back.


----------



## tholt

number1sixerfan said:


> My only real gripe is the bass distortion on select* songs (typically those that are more bass heavy) while listening at higher volumes. Most songs are absolutely fine, but some are just unlistenable at higher volumes.



Yes, on bass-heavy tracks and/or certain frequencies the drivers can audibly distort or chuff IME. It's rare but it happens. It can be mitigated to some degree by adjusting the cup rotation (lessen the air gap underneath between cup and head), decreasing the headband width and playing around with toe in.


----------



## jlbrach

I have had no such problem or at least havent encountered it as of yet


----------



## Joe Skubinski

You could  be clipping the amp. At higher volumes with tracks that accentuate bass, it happens. The headphone plays so clean that it begs you to turn it up, you'd be surprised how much peak power it's taking. You also need to watch how hot you're coming into the amp from the source. If this is too high, or if you using EQ, you could clip the amp input.


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 18, 2020)

Joe Skubinski said:


> You could  be clipping the amp. At higher volumes with tracks that accentuate bass, it happens. The headphone plays so clean that it begs you to turn it up, you'd be surprised how much peak power it's taking. You also need to watch how hot you're coming into the amp from the source. If this is too high, or if you using EQ, you could clip the amp input.


Hey Joe on your youtube page did you guys ever choose the winner for the rack? There was never a follow up video to announce winner so was curious.


----------



## number1sixerfan

tholt said:


> Yes, on bass-heavy tracks and/or certain frequencies the drivers can audibly distort or chuff IME. It's rare but it happens. It can be mitigated to some degree by adjusting the cup rotation (lessen the air gap underneath between cup and head), decreasing the headband width and playing around with toe in.





Joe Skubinski said:


> You could  be clipping the amp. At higher volumes with tracks that accentuate bass, it happens. The headphone plays so clean that it begs you to turn it up, you'd be surprised how much peak power it's taking. You also need to watch how hot you're coming into the amp from the source. If this is too high, or if you using EQ, you could clip the amp input.



Thank you both, that's what I was looking for. It's only on a small selection of songs and the combo sounds pretty amazing outside of that, that's why I asked. I already accounted for volume of the source and I'm not using any EQ. Again, only on a few songs, thanks again this helps!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Joe Skubinski said:


> You could  be clipping the amp. At higher volumes with tracks that accentuate bass, it happens. The headphone plays so clean that it begs you to turn it up, you'd be surprised how much peak power it's taking. You also need to watch how hot you're coming into the amp from the source. If this is too high, or if you using EQ, you could clip the amp input.



I would venture to say the recording is poor and that's the source of the issue. That's the problem with such resolving headphones...they really don't ANYTHING slip by.  The GS-X mini has the same power ratings as the XI Broadway or HPA4.


----------



## number1sixerfan

MacedonianHero said:


> I would venture to say the recording is poor and that's the source of the issue. That's the problem with such resolving headphones...they really don't ANYTHING slip by.  The GS-X mini has the same power ratings as the XI Broadway or HPA4.



Yea, I'm also considering that as well. It's just pretty consistent and I don't at all experience that with the nearly as resolving 009. I have the HD800s coming in tomorrow so that may help in pinpointing. Also full acknowledging that I listen pretty loud during some of my late night sessions (after having a night cap of course), otherwise it's a non-issue altogether. Again, loving the sound otherwise. Fit is the only other thing I'm still trying to get right.


----------



## MacedonianHero

number1sixerfan said:


> Yea, I'm also considering that as well. It's just pretty consistent and I don't at all experience that with the nearly as resolving 009. I have the HD800s coming in tomorrow so that may help in pinpointing. Also full acknowledging that I listen pretty loud during some of my late night sessions (after having a night cap of course), otherwise it's a non-issue altogether. Again, loving the sound otherwise. Fit is the only other thing I'm still trying to get right.



Is it on both sides?


----------



## number1sixerfan

MacedonianHero said:


> Is it on both sides?



Yea, it is.


----------



## MacedonianHero

number1sixerfan said:


> Yea, it is.



So likely the headphones are fine and it's the music/amp/DAC/source. The odds of both drivers having the same issue at the same time is VERY low.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Apr 21, 2020)

Thanks again for all the responses here.. I was doing more googling and digging. I've seen other people in this thread with the exact same issue so I don't think it's the gear. These are also nearly new headphones. But I did come across the post below.

This is absolutely, EXACTLY what I'm experiencing. A few people chimed in and mentioned playing with the pad rotation/fit and it sounds like he had some success after tweaking them. Going to do the same as I also had the same issue of the gap at the bottom of the pads/ear as he did. That's actually what's been bothering me about the fit. I'll report back after a few days, but to me that's promising as I enjoy these extremely overall.



tholt said:


> Thought I'd share a couple more random thoughts on the the 1266 as I continue to explore my recently upgraded Phi version:
> 
> Inexpensive ($8), not-too-looking-DIY solution for the problem of headstrap not low enough to place your ears at the optimal position: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YIJGS6E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. Adhesive cushion which fits nicely to the bottom of the leather headband
> 
> Heavy bass distortion: On some bass-heavy tracks (specifically in this case, "Hey Now" by London Grammar), I'm hearing bass rumble distort the entire rest of the band up to and including female vocals and treble. I do realize there is simple physics involved with trying to move that kind of air with a single driver, just curious if anyone else has experienced bass-induced audible distortion? I only ask because one of the huge features of this headphone is the deep and clean bass, of which I'm a huge fan. On this particular track, however, it doesn't take a lot of goosing on the volume dial to hear it. Wondered others' experience?


----------



## F208Frank

number1sixerfan said:


> Thanks again for all the responses here.. I was doing more googling and digging. I've seen other people in this thread with the exact same issue so I don't think it's the gear. These are also nearly new headphones. But I did come across the post below.
> 
> This is absolutely, EXACTLY what I'm experiencing. A few people chimed in and mentioned playing with the pad rotation/fit and it sounds like he had some success after tweaking them. Going to do the same as I also had the same issue of the gap at the bottom of the pads/ear as he does. That's actually what's been bothering me about the fit. I'll report back after a few days, but to me that's promising as I enjoy these extremely overall.


Looking forward, good luck.


----------



## tholt

MacedonianHero said:


> I would venture to say the recording is poor and that's the source of the issue.


It's not that. Unless I'm in an 80s mood, the vast majority of music I listen to is recorded decently well or better. It's pretty tough to even want to listen to bad recordings on the Abyss, as unforgiving as they are. It's just a matter of very low LF (and only certain frequencies) and limitations of the driver, IMO. The distortion can be exacerbated or mitigated with physical adjustment of cups and frame. If the air gap under the ear is large (i.e. ear pads are at 3 oclock/9 oclock) and/or the frame is extended very wide, this distortion can be more pronounced. Lessening either or both can audibly lessen it. It could be amp clipping, I suppose, but I've also experienced it with more than one amp, and always on the same tracks. I listen to a lot of electronica, and probably not at 'quiet' levels, so it makes sense to me that under certain conditions the drivers could be getting a workout. 



number1sixerfan said:


> This is absolutely, EXACTLY what I'm experiencing. A few people chimed in and mentioned playing with the pad rotation/fit and it sounds like he had some success after tweaking them. Going to do the same as I also had the same issue of the gap at the bottom of the pads/ear as he did. That's actually what's been bothering me about the fit. I'll report back after a few days, but to me that's promising as I enjoy these extremely overall.


Fit is so crucial with these headphones. And depending on the music style or volume level, you may never fully get away from some distortion every once in a while. For the most part, bass is phenomenal and digs deep. So to me it makes sense that on certain recordings it could go in the red, as it were. If you want to PM me, I can share some adjustment ideas I've learned along the way.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Apr 22, 2020)

Again, thank you to all of you. This issue is now fixed 100%. I honestly cannot believe the difference. Ok so here's what I had done previously for fit (keep in mind I watched the video that describes adjusting fit before doing so when I got them):

1) Rotate pads in 3-4 diff positions (kept what I felt optimal, thick part on the back of ears/cans)
2) Play with the width position with the top of the frame (very close in was best)
3) Bend the frame inward SLIGHTLY to try to counteract open gap at bottom of ear cups. (admittedly I only put light pressure and bent a little as these are expensive cans)
4) Tilted the head band forward so that the cans are at a slight angle instead of the middle of my head (helped with closing the gap a little)

All of the above improved the sound, but the distortion issue was still consistent. Here's what I did just now:

1) Applied moderate/heavy* pressure to bend the frame inward. Assuming maybe 10-15 degree difference? (as opposed to maybe 5 before) This was at least double the pressure applied initially.
2) Kept all other changes above..

Fixed the issue entirely. Only thing is that now the clamping force is definitely much, much stronger. Given the sound it's been worth it lol. But I'm going to slowly fine tune with the frame to find the right balance in fit. But this ENTIRELY alleviated the distortion issue. Furthermore, it had two other effects: 1) I now have WAY more reserve amp power. I'm now listening at a bit lower volumes, had been overcompensating *(the GSX Mini is actually a very excellent pairing)* 2) before, when I opened the width between the cups which can impact openness and the soundstage, I'd lose some of the fullness and bass impact.. now I can extend them out if I'd like without having that gap.. which means I'm not losing bass/fullness and not adding to distortion problems.

Sorry for the long post but it's literally night and day so I hope this is helpful to someone else.


----------



## tholt

^ Cool. You might find you still fiddle with adjustments down the road. I know I tweaked mine on and off for months before I finally settled on current settings. I think it's a compromise between a few things -- wide soundstage vs sounding TOO wide/thin or the opposite, too intimate or in your face. Less impactful bass vs too much at times, etc. It's all subjective and personal. These are the most finely tuned headphones I've owned, each tweak makes a difference, including bending the frame, which I've also done. Cool you found an a-ha moment


----------



## number1sixerfan

tholt said:


> ^ Cool. You might find you still fiddle with adjustments down the road. I know I tweaked mine on and off for months before I finally settled on current settings. I think it's a compromise between a few things -- wide soundstage vs sounding TOO wide/thin or the opposite, too intimate or in your face. Less impactful bass vs too much at times, etc. It's all subjective and personal. These are the most finely tuned headphones I've owned, each tweak makes a difference, including bending the frame, which I've also done. Cool you found an a-ha moment



Thank you! And that's helpful to know, as I know I still have to find the perfect balance. Couldn't agree more, each tweak makes a difference and depending on your head shape even a small one can be tremendous. 

The sound is exactly where I want it, just playing with the clamp force for comfort next. Going to enjoy it tonight as is however lol


----------



## F208Frank

Man, sometimes when you put these on and enjoy them so immensely that you just want to share that joy with someone else because it gets your head bopping with a smile but the wife is not interested at all. Had to take that positive excess energy and throw it back here, haha.

Love these headphones, truly amazing.


----------



## Roasty

my wife thinks I look stupid wearing them. she is probably right.


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 23, 2020)

Roasty said:


> my wife thinks I look stupid wearing them. she is probably right.


My wife straight up laughed at me and I always wondered if the designer just had poor aesthetic taste or something. After watching their youtube video, they designed it with sound in mind only and this shape was the most optimal. I prefer them do it that way though. Adds to their mantra of "F the standard, we do it our way, and we do it well." though they say it much more politely.

I do know Joe himself thinks the headphones look cool so of course everyone has their own opinion.

I remember one year passing by them at Can Jam and did not even give them a try due to the look of the headphone, what a huge mistake.


----------



## tholt

I remember first seeing the OG at CES. I think it was 2015? I thought they looked way cool. I loved the badass logo. I still think they do. Just not on your head


----------



## jlbrach

Roasty said:


> my wife thinks I look stupid wearing them. she is probably right.


who cares what they look like?...they are only for home use you cant take them out with you so looks are irrelevant...truth is they sound so great looks be damned


----------



## Marco_tam

Roasty said:


> This will have to do until I can get a new headband. Several rubber bands and a zip tie did the trick.



Thanks @Roasty for the inspiration! Mine snapped only after two months of use. I guess it's just bad luck I got a bad quality rubber for my headband. But with a zip tie and few rubber bands it would also do the trick. Just not so sure if I should get a new one for $149...


----------



## Litlgi74 (Apr 25, 2020)

Marco_tam said:


> Thanks @Roasty for the inspiration! Mine snapped only after two months of use. I guess it's just bad luck I got a bad quality rubber for my headband. But with a zip tie and few rubber bands it would also do the trick. Just not so sure if I should get a new one for $149...


Are you hanging the headphones from the band? The band must be under warranty, no?

What is a Pink Faun 2.12x?


----------



## Marco_tam

Litlgi74 said:


> Are you hanging the headphones from the band? The band must be under warranty, no?
> 
> What is a Pink Faun 2.12x?



I never hang mine on a stand. I just keep it lying on the desk when not using. I think I'll have to ask Abyss if it's under warranty but I guess it's unlikely...
Pink Faun 2.12x is actually already discontinued and *succeeded* by the current flagship 2.16, where "x" means the upgraded version with better clocks and fuses.


----------



## Abyss Headphones (Apr 25, 2020)

BTW, we have 2 videos on fitting the AB-1266 to your head, the first is out of the box, the second is a bit more advanced, probably a better view after you've had some time with it.


----------



## attmci

Marco_tam said:


> Thanks @Roasty for the inspiration! Mine snapped only after two months of use. I guess it's just bad luck I got a bad quality rubber for my headband. But with a zip tie and few rubber bands it would also do the trick. Just not so sure if I should get a new one for $149...


A QC issue? Cannot break the rubber in a couple of months.


----------



## Roasty

Marco_tam said:


> Thanks @Roasty for the inspiration! Mine snapped only after two months of use. I guess it's just bad luck I got a bad quality rubber for my headband. But with a zip tie and few rubber bands it would also do the trick. Just not so sure if I should get a new one for $149...



Hope it helps. I ordered a new band. Now when I'm not using the headphones, I put the frame back to the reset position ie not pulled apart wide, to reduce the tension on the bands when not in use. Good luck!


----------



## Marco_tam (Apr 25, 2020)

attmci said:


> A QC issue? Cannot break the rubber in a couple of months.



I think so too...It seems like the rubber was cut by the edge where it was sitting in this two month time..


----------



## Marco_tam

Roasty said:


> Hope it helps. I ordered a new band. Now when I'm not using the headphones, I put the frame back to the reset position ie not pulled apart wide, to reduce the tension on the bands when not in use. Good luck!



Sadly I never hang my headphones on anything besides my head...Maybe I should reduce my listening hours, haha.
Here is my way of doing it. Hope we were the only unlucky ones😬


----------



## astrostar59

I hang mine on the metal frame, so avoid any tension on the bands. I use the Woo Audio stand,


----------



## simorag

This is one of those compositions and recordings that set a challenging benchmark for _any_ hi-fi system, and it turns out as a magnificent display for the AB-1266 virtues.






Playing it LOUD (say first-row concert hall) it impresses since the first notes.
The Abyss thunderous bass and cavernous soundstage make you grip to your armchair and prepare for a musical and emotional marathon.

In terms of audiophile jargon, we get plenty of working examples throughout the recording:

- low end extension and control? just press play and you get the answer ... oth erwise skip to the last 40 seconds of the last track and get a skull massage
- soundstage and imaging? same as above (or just play a random track of this recording), easy!
- resolution? wait for the chorus to enter or skip to e.g. track 9 to enjoy many nuances, details, exercise to identify the most delicate instruments playing in the final part of the penultimate track 
- tonal accuracy? with several hundreds of elements in the orchestra, including organ, piano, church bells (!) and of course the monumental vocal content (both choral and solo), there is nearly an encyclopedia of timbres at disposal 
- transparency? many examples throughout, just picking track 13 as it has several well distinguished layers where the music is presented
- distortion? play track 8 full blown is like a stress test for your audio equipment (especially the amplifier in this case) to keep the message readable, air between the instruments and a credible timbre even with the most crowded and loudest passages.
- dynamics? go straight to the last two tracks ... well, it's Mahler after all!

Getting full marks to all of the above is almost an impossible task, yet the AB-1266 TC / AIC-10 combo comes close enough to get me thankful of their respective manufacturers.

Album available on Tidal and Qobuz


----------



## FLTWS (Apr 26, 2020)

Roasty said:


> Hope it helps. I ordered a new band. Now when I'm not using the headphones, I put the frame back to the reset position ie not pulled apart wide, to reduce the tension on the bands when not in use. Good luck!



My experience returning the frame back to closed after each session did not work well for me. In a short period of time the set screw on top came loose and the phones would no longer hold the angle but instead would flop to fully angled. As the torques wrench used to tighten that screw is a unique design, (so I was told) I had no option but to RMA to get it tightened up and was advised to always leave the phones in the "ready" to listen position with respect to spread and angle of the top frame..


----------



## Roasty

FLTWS said:


> My experience returning the frame back to closed after each session did not work well for me. In a short period of time the set screw on top came loose and the phones would no longer hold the angle but instead would flop to fully angled. As the torques wrench used to tighten that screw is a unique design, (so I was told) I had no option but to RMA to get it tightened up and was advised to always leave the phones in the "ready" to listen position with respect to spread and angle of the top frame..



Oh I see! Hmm.. I have my frame spread max width when listening, and return it to closed after each session. The rubber bands seem to keep their tautness better than when I kept them in ready-listening position (following which one band snapped). So far, the screw hinge is still as tight as on day 1. Thanks for the heads up man; I'll leave it in the ready position for a while and see how it goes.


----------



## FLTWS

Roasty said:


> Oh I see! Hmm.. I have my frame spread max width when listening, and return it to closed after each session. The rubber bands seem to keep their tautness better than when I kept them in ready-listening position (following which one band snapped). So far, the screw hinge is still as tight as on day 1. Thanks for the heads up man; I'll leave it in the ready position for a while and see how it goes.



Easier to replace with new or kluge up an "O" ring repair than to RMA the phone. I need to fully open mine to fit on my noggin as well. But I bought my 1266 in Nov. 2017, still on my original headband.


----------



## attmci (Apr 26, 2020)

FLTWS said:


> My experience returning the frame back to closed after each session did not work well for me. In a short period of time the set screw on top came loose and the phones would no longer hold the angle but instead would flop to fully angled. As the torques wrench used to tighten that screw is a unique design, (so I was told) I had no option but to RMA to get it tightened up and was advised to always leave the phones in the "ready" to listen position with respect to spread and angle of the top frame..


I am also using a woo stand, and attached a small piece of sticker at the bottom of the screw to avoid metal to metal contact. I also adjust the stand to the highest level to protect the headphone cable.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081H4Z5G...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==


----------



## attmci

FLTWS said:


> Easier to replace with new or kluge up an "O" ring repair than to RMA the phone. I need to fully open mine to fit on my noggin as well. But I bought my 1266 in Nov. 2017, still on my original headband.


That's why I believe the new batch of the O-rings for the newly sold TC could have problems.


----------



## FLTWS (Apr 26, 2020)

I'm not certain but if you look at the metal armband in my picture above it looks like the corner bends are different in length. Evaluation TC on L, My 1266 Phi on R. Maybe there is more ability to expand the driver housings farther apart putting more stretch on the "O" rings on the TC.

Also, I believe the reason that my early Phi couldn't be upgraded was something to do with the size of the TC driver housing (thicker?) that had to be allowed for making a bit more widening ability in the metal headband important.


----------



## astrostar59

Nice. I use this:








​


The detail, soundstage width. And that baseline at 4.22 onwards. Electrostatic speed, treble details. the fabulous Planar bass, HE-1 midrange. What's not to like???


----------



## Litlgi74

simorag said:


> This is one of those compositions and recordings that set a challenging benchmark for _any_ hi-fi system, and it turns out as a magnificent display for the AB-1266 virtues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestion and what to listen for in the recording... It is very helpful.


----------



## Litlgi74

So... @Joe Skubinski... Is the headband covered by the warranty if the o-rings break due to normal use?


----------



## ken6217

Abyss Headphones said:


> BTW, we have 2 videos on fitting the AB-1266 to your head, the first is out of the box, the second is a bit more advanced, probably a better view after you've had some time with it.




Great videos. Joe. The fine tuning instruction was very helpful.


----------



## ken6217

simorag said:


> This is one of those compositions and recordings that set a challenging benchmark for _any_ hi-fi system, and it turns out as a magnificent display for the AB-1266 virtues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I found it. Man, I cant listen to that type of music. LOL.


----------



## Roasty

i think i remember someone posting a link to getting the Rooms Audio Line stand for the abyss.. but i cant find it anymore.

pic from someone's instagram


----------



## Litlgi74

Roasty said:


> i think i remember someone posting a link to getting the Rooms Audio Line stand for the abyss.. but i cant find it anymore.
> 
> pic from someone's instagram


Here you go...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-569#post-15063503


----------



## Roasty

Litlgi74 said:


> Here you go...
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-569#post-15063503



thanks man!
looks like some variation between models. the pic i posted has the headband resting nicely on the ledge. the link you posted, the headband is floating above the ledge. well, no matter since the weight is supported by the metal frame. cheers for the link to that post! i was searching from page 580 onwards ha ha ha...


----------



## ken6217

Abyss Headphones said:


> BTW, we have 2 videos on fitting the AB-1266 to your head, the first is out of the box, the second is a bit more advanced, probably a better view after you've had some time with it.




Joe, one of the more interesting things I found out from your video was that pulling headphones apart would make them sit higher on your ears due to the tension of the headband. Also I had never thought of moving the headphones back or forward a little bit to adjust the sound. I was too rigid in my thinking of having it sit on my head and call it a day after I adjusted the tow in or how far apart I wanted the drivers from my head.


----------



## buke9

Just thought I’d share. I have been wanting something to transport my Abyss as I like to go to meets ( I’m guessing a while before they happen again ) . I found the Seahorse 530 to be a great fit.


----------



## CreditingKarma

buke9 said:


> Just thought I’d share. I have been wanting something to transport my Abyss as I like to go to meets ( I’m guessing a while before they happen again ) . I found the Seahorse 530 to be a great fit.



Nice cutting on the foam too. I am using the leather carry bag to bring to meets. Here is to hoping that things will clear up enough so we can still have canjam chicago, axpona, and zmfest this year. Hope that you are safe and healthy.


----------



## Roasty

buke9 said:


> Just thought I’d share. I have been wanting something to transport my Abyss as I like to go to meets ( I’m guessing a while before they happen again ) . I found the Seahorse 530 to be a great fit.



That looks really good. How come u didn't make a cutout for the headband, so you wouldnt have to remove the headband each time u used the case?


----------



## deuter

astrostar59 said:


> I hang mine on the metal frame, so avoid any tension on the bands. I use the Woo Audio stand,


Please don’t do that, you risk scratching the headphone stand.
I know this because it’s happened here, it was a light scratch but annoyed.
You have to place the headphones on the leatherband


----------



## astrostar59 (Apr 28, 2020)

Fear not my friend. I have sorbitane strips on the top of the stand bar. Looks a bit naff but works a treat. I left a gap to accommodate the bolts.


----------



## deuter

Ok should mention this too, I have tried many TOTL headphones over the years including a complete Stax Setup with Blue Hawaii SE  but nothing comes close to the Abyss for everything - Tonal Balance, Soundstage, Imaging, Detail and finally the main ingredient Bass Energy.


----------



## buke9

CreditingKarma said:


> Nice cutting on the foam too. I am using the leather carry bag to bring to meets. Here is to hoping that things will clear up enough so we can still have canjam chicago, axpona, and zmfest this year. Hope that you are safe and healthy.


I would like to take credit for cutting so nice but the foam comes partially cut in 1/4 inch squares and you just pick how wide and long you want and carefully separate it quite ingenious. Yes I was really looking forward to CanJam Chicago as well but I did go to NYC CanJam just before everything got locked down.


----------



## buke9

Roasty said:


> That looks really good. How come u didn't make a cutout for the headband, so you wouldnt have to remove the headband each time u used the case?


I usually take the strap off when I transport them and also it would be tough to get them out of the case and doing it this way all you have to do is grab the top of the frame and they slide right out . The top of the case has egg crate foam on it so it holds everything down and after closing and moving around shaking or whatever when you open it up it still looks just like the pic. It works for me.


----------



## astrostar59

deuter said:


> Ok should mention this too, I have tried many TOTL headphones over the years including a complete Stax Setup with Blue Hawaii SE  but nothing comes close to the Abyss for everything - Tonal Balance, Soundstage, Imaging, Detail and finally the main ingredient Bass Energy.


Yes I agree, I did the Stax 009 and 007 thing with Carbon KGSShv amp. Found Planars, LCD4 first, the the Abyss. Nearest IMO is the Senn HE-1, that has body and weight plus speed and detail. But at a cost unobtainable to 99% of us.


----------



## radnor

Anyone want to trade a TC for a brand new Susvara? I’m in SF Bay Area.


----------



## ken6217

radnor said:


> Anyone want to trade a TC for a brand new Susvara? I’m in SF Bay Area.



Can’t you return it for a refund?


----------



## Litlgi74

radnor said:


> Anyone want to trade a TC for a brand new Susvara? I’m in SF Bay Area.


I doubt you'll have much luck with that deal here...


----------



## ken6217

Litlgi74 said:


> I doubt you'll have much luck with that deal here...



Are you trying to say that no one wants to downgrade?


----------



## koven

ken6217 said:


> Are you trying to say that no one wants to downgrade?



I feel attacked.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Apr 28, 2020)

radnor said:


> Anyone want to trade a TC for a brand new Susvara? I’m in SF Bay Area.


I doubt you'll have much luck with that deal here...





ken6217 said:


> Are you trying to say that no one wants to downgrade?


Yep... I heard both on a wa33 at the same time at CanJam NYC this year... There is no comparison. It only took two seconds to realize that I made the right purchase decision.


----------



## radnor

Litlgi74 said:


> I doubt you'll have much luck with that deal here...
> Yep... I heard both on a wa33 at the same time at CanJam NYC this year... There is no comparison.


Some like the susvara better.... I prefer more meat even if it comes from loss of detail and air. So I would absolutely not consider a downgrade powered properly... it’s a different sound sig that some prefer.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I too think the Susvaras are a downgrade, but the Susvaras are still very good.  For some genres, like doom and stoner rock, the Susvaras are better than the TCs.  For bass heavy songs, the TCs win out.  If I had to choose the TCs or the Susvaras, I'd chose the TCs.  But, I think both compliment each other very well though


----------



## Litlgi74

radnor said:


> Some like the susvara better.... I prefer more meat even if it comes from loss of detail and air. So I would absolutely not consider a downgrade powered properly... it’s a different sound sig that some prefer.


My avatar says it all.


----------



## ken6217

I was just joking. You can call it a downgrade, and you can call the other one upgrade. It’s all personal opinion as to what you like, and how you like to hear the music


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 28, 2020)

Used TC 1266 > Brand New Susvara

^just my opinion and of course am biased as I own the Abyss

I'm still baffled by how the Susvara can get away with the overall build quality of their headphone. Seeing how other owners' pictures of their earpads deteriote over the years as well as physically holding the Susvaras myself, it just really rubbed me the wrong way. When consumers vote with their dollars, they are saying that's "OK" in my opinion. With that said the Susvaras are a top tier headphone sound wise and they do have a loyal fan base.

Side Note: I'd only feel comfortable sharing that opinion here as this is an Abyss thread. I would never waltz into the Susvara thread and say such things as each thread has their own fan bases. At the end of the day we all have our own preferences, and ultimately vote with our dollars.


----------



## ken6217 (Apr 28, 2020)

ken6217 said:


> I was just joking. You can't call it a downgrade, and you cant call the other one upgrade. It’s all personal opinion as to what you like, and how you like to hear the music



Had a couple of typos in the original post. I amended it here.


----------



## koven

There's not much plastic on the Susvara unless you mean the stock cable. Most of it is brushed metal.


----------



## koven

F208Frank said:


> I would never waltz into the Susvara thread and say such things as each thread has their own fan bases and that would be massively disrespectful. At the end of the day we all have our own preferences.



If anyone takes opinions as disrespect in any thread they are probably taking the internet too seriously.


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 28, 2020)

koven said:


> If anyone takes opinions as disrespect in any thread they are probably taking the internet too seriously.


Point was I would never go into another "y" thread and state "x" headphone is better than "y" headphone. It would only cause arguments as people are generally biased to liking their own headphone of choice.


----------



## ken6217

Well you can’t get upset with someone giving their opinion who has “Fan Boy” in their aviator. You know what you’re going to get.


----------



## koven

F208Frank said:


> Point was I would never go into another thread and state x headphone is better than your y headphone.



Don't be afraid to post your opinions in Susvara thread, they don't bite. Just don't lead w/ it's full of cheap plastic like you did in your previous (now edited) post.


----------



## jlbrach

the TC is an amazing HP that I love but I am lucky enough own the susvara as well and it is extraordinary as well...very different but extraordinary which is why I own both


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 28, 2020)

koven said:


> Don't be afraid to post your opinions in Susvara thread, they don't bite. Just don't lead w/ it's full of cheap plastic like you did in your previous (now edited) post.


It felt plasticky to me. I corrected it because you own one and you would know better and did not want to give false info. I held it in my hands maybe a good 6-7 times and I always assumed it was plastic due to feel.

My opinion doesn't change regarding the cheap quality build of the Susvara though, especially for a $6000 MSRP headphone.

Of course my opinion is just that, an opinion.


----------



## supervisor

whereas Abyss Phi TC is a fricken tank !


----------



## MacedonianHero

F208Frank said:


> It felt plasticky to me. I corrected it because you own one and you would know better and did not want to give false info.
> 
> My opinion doesn't change regarding the cheap quality build of the Susvara though, especially for a $6000 MSRP headphone.



You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but facts are something else...there is no plastic on the Susvara. My pair looks quite good and I'm very happy with the build quality and to my ears, I'm right there with this:



jlbrach said:


> the TC is an amazing HP that I love but I am lucky enough own the susvara as well and it is extraordinary as well...very different but extraordinary which is why I own both


----------



## ken6217

F208Frank said:


> It felt plasticky to me. I corrected it because you own one and you would know better and did not want to give false info.
> 
> My opinion doesn't change regarding the cheap quality build of the Susvara though, especially for a $6000 MSRP headphone.



Sound aside, I wouldn’t say that Hifiman headphones don’t give you the feel of luxury, and and honestly do look cheaply made. I don’t think you’re going to find a lot of people that disagree with this. The build quality and materials are not on par with the sound quality


----------



## koven

F208Frank said:


> It felt plasticky to me. I corrected it because you own one and you would know better and did not want to give false info. I held it in my hands maybe a good 6-7 times and I always assumed it was plastic due to feel.
> 
> My opinion doesn't change regarding the cheap quality build of the Susvara though, especially for a $6000 MSRP headphone.
> 
> Of course my opinion is just that, an opinion.



Fair enough. Hifiman is infamous for poor materials/QC after all and yes they deserve to be shamed for it but I'd say Susvara is the one exception in their lineup, despite the laughable MSRP. Hope I didn't just jinx myself there as my driver dies in the next few weeks. Generally speaking it's probably fair to say most people prefer TC over Susvara. It has a bigger wow factor sound and is more genre agnostic.. though where Susvara excels (in the midrange) is really something else. I listen to mostly jazz and acoustic/vocal music so that suits me well. I also like the comfort and aesthetic more than TC. Plenty of people have both (perhaps me in the future) and they're truly the perfect complement to each other, kind of like a Porsche and Lambo.


----------



## F208Frank

koven said:


> Fair enough. Hifiman is infamous for poor materials/QC after all and yes they deserve to be shamed for it but I'd say Susvara is the one exception in their lineup, despite the laughable MSRP. Hope I didn't just jinx myself there as my driver dies in the next few weeks. Generally speaking it's probably fair to say most people prefer TC over Susvara. It has a bigger wow factor sound and is more genre agnostic.. though where Susvara excels (in the midrange) is really something else. I listen to mostly jazz and acoustic/vocal music so that suits me well. I also like the comfort and aesthetic more than TC. Plenty of people have both (perhaps me in the future) and they're truly the perfect complement to each other, kind of like a Porsche and Lambo.


Sure at one point in time I considered buying the Susvara myself as it is a great sounding headphone. I know many people have multiple sets of headphones but I am one of those "have one, be minimal" sort of guys. Unpopular path, I'm sure, compared to many users on this forum!


----------



## llamaluv

I'm very much for presenting one's personal opinion in its full, unexpurgated form, regardless of thread. Granted, whether a person has the patience to deal with the all-too-predictable and mechanical responses that it might incur is another matter.

Speaking of which, and just to register my own, I believe swapping out a TC for a Susvara is simultaneously an upgrade, downgrade, and sidegrade.


----------



## deuter

koven said:


> Fair enough. Hifiman is infamous for poor materials/QC after all and yes they deserve to be shamed for it but I'd say Susvara is the one exception in their lineup, despite the laughable MSRP. Hope I didn't just jinx myself there as my driver dies in the next few weeks. Generally speaking it's probably fair to say most people prefer TC over Susvara. It has a bigger wow factor sound and is more genre agnostic.. though where Susvara excels (in the midrange) is really something else. I listen to mostly jazz and acoustic/vocal music so that suits me well. I also like the comfort and aesthetic more than TC. Plenty of people have both (perhaps me in the future) and they're truly the perfect complement to each other, kind of like a Porsche and Lambo.


Its very easy for a headphone to get the simple genres right, where its tricky doing it all right or atleast complex genres where there is lots happening.


----------



## deuter

F208Frank said:


> Sure at one point in time I considered buying the Susvara myself as it is a great sounding headphone. I know many people have multiple sets of headphones but I am one of those "have one, be minimal" sort of guys. Unpopular path, I'm sure, compared to many users on this forum!


I'am the same, What it does is make you pick one that you like and the other one eats dust.Like what's happenning with my Grado RS1i which I have purley from a nostalgia side of things.


----------



## jlbrach

funny, to me the susvara looks and feels great on my head and while not as elegant as the empyrean or LCD-4 I find it build quite acceptable given its extroidinary performance...lets be honest here given a choice between the comfort of wearing the susvara or TC the susvara is the hands down winner


----------



## radnor (Apr 29, 2020)

koven said:


> Fair enough. Hifiman is infamous for poor materials/QC after all and yes they deserve to be shamed for it but I'd say Susvara is the one exception in their lineup, despite the laughable MSRP. Hope I didn't just jinx myself there as my driver dies in the next few weeks. Generally speaking it's probably fair to say most people prefer TC over Susvara. It has a bigger wow factor sound and is more genre agnostic.. though where Susvara excels (in the midrange) is really something else. I listen to mostly jazz and acoustic/vocal music so that suits me well. I also like the comfort and aesthetic more than TC. Plenty of people have both (perhaps me in the future) and they're truly the perfect complement to each other, kind of like a Porsche and Lambo.


Hard for me to imagine TC coming close to acoustic vocal with susvara.... really incredible... but I am mostly electronica... so it would seem TC would win here.. FYI guys anyone that wants to destroy your headphone dreams listen to the bacch4mac in 2 channel.... what it does to music is beyond belief. Essentially creates the auditory layer of the Holodeck deck from any 2 channel system... I have it set up in nor cal if anyone wants to listen.... there is simply nothing that transforms music into an experience such as this... It a bigger revolution than stereo. Happy to demo. Sorry for the sidetrack. Example... dead can dance live.... voice dead center w genelec 8341.... reverbs off 90 degrees to my side... over 4 feet away from speaker.... speakers completely vanish... it’s astonishing.... and soundstage wraps out and around you with precise location of instruments on the x y and z.... it’s like alien tech.... literally created by a Princeton plasma physicist. Convinced everyone in the world will hear this over the next 3 to 5 years and will change the home music experience forever... incredibly most music from the 60s And 70s sounds best... I’m not a jazz guy but omg what this does to jazz.... I have listened and now love music I hated because of Bacch. It can be used for HP as well I set up with the susvara but TBH it pales in comp to 2 channel. Read some of the reviews.... I had a hard time believing what people were saying about their experience until I tried it and was beyond floored.


----------



## radnor (Apr 29, 2020)

delete


----------



## koven

radnor said:


> Hard for me to imagine TC coming close to acoustic vocal with susvara.... really incredible... but I am mostly electronica... so it would seem TC would win here.. FYI guys anyone that wants to destroy your headphone dreams listen to the bacch4mac in 2 channel.... what it does to music is beyond belief. Essentially creates the auditory layer of the Holodeck deck from any 2 channel system... I have it set up in nor cal if anyone wants to listen.... there is simply nothing that transforms music into an experience such as this... It a bigger revolution than stereo. Happy to demo. Sorry for the sidetrack. Example... dead can dance live.... voice dead center w genelec 8341.... reverbs off 90 degrees to my side... over 4 feet away from speaker.... speakers completely vanish... it’s astonishing.... and soundstage wraps out and around you with precise location of instruments on the x y and z.... it’s like alien tech.... literally created by a Princeton plasma physicist. Convinced everyone in the world will hear this over the next 3 to 5 years and will change the home music experience forever... incredibly most music from the 60s And 70s sounds best... I’m not a jazz guy but omg what this does to jazz.... I have listened and now love music I hated because of Bacch. It can be used for HP as well I set up with the susvara but TBH it pales in comp to 2 channel. Read some of the reviews.... I had a hard time believing what people were saying about their experience until I tried it and was beyond floored.



I'd like to hear it, maybe when shelter ends. I'm not too far from Oakland.  In layman terms this supposedly turns any stereo recording into a binaural experience right? Does it do room correction as well?


----------



## radnor (Apr 29, 2020)

koven said:


> I'd like to hear it, maybe when shelter ends. I'm not too far from Oakland.  In layman terms this supposedly turns any stereo recording into a binaural experience right? Does it do room correction as well?





koven said:


> I'd like to hear it, maybe when shelter ends. I'm not too far from Oakland.  In layman terms this supposedly turns any stereo recording into a binaural experience right? Does it do room correction as well?


It’s beyond binaural.... binaural happens to be one of the better recording techniques to capture the “soundfield” but the audio meta data exists to reconstruct space In 80% of stereo recordings. I’m actually near stanford.... happy to give you a demo everyone that has heard it can’t believe what they are hearing... and it does not degrade the sound.... in fact I’d say it gives you the best representation of sound possible... and really only possible now due to today’s compute power... there is a reason Elon musk is sponsoring his Princeton lab.  Pm we and we can find a time for you to swing by my pad and check it... I am near university ave. Yes it does it’s own form of room correction.... version coming that essentially does beam forming.... which takes the room out of the equation wether you have treatments or not.... sci fi man... like stereo in the 60s 70s I’m convinced we are on the cusp of a new revolution in music because of this.


----------



## radnor

delete


----------



## koven

radnor said:


> It’s beyond binaural.... binaural happens to be one of the better recording techniques to capture the “soundfield” but the audio meta data exists to reconstruct space In 80% of stereo recordings. I’m actually near stanford.... happy to give you a demo everyone that has heard it can’t believe what they are hearing... and it does not degrade the sound.... in fact I’d say it gives you the best representation of sound possible... and really only possible now due to today’s compute power... there is a reason Elon musk is sponsoring his Princeton lab.  Pm we and we can find a time for you to swing by my pad and check it... I am near university ave. Yes it does it’s own form of room correction.... version coming that essentially does beam forming.... which takes the room out of the equation wether you have treatments or not.... sci fi man... like stereo in the 60s 70s I’m convinced we are on the cusp of a new revolution in music because of this.



Sweet, Stanford is much closer to me. I'll take this to PM, thanks.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Has anyone compared the formula s to the auris nirvana? They are almost the same price when you add the powerman to the formula s. I am wondering how different they are. The ability to tube roll is a nice option with the nirvana.


----------



## CreditingKarma (May 1, 2020)

matthewhypolite said:


> I'll be running the TC from Msb Premier with fetmo clock into WA33 EE with NOS tubes.
> 
> Got the yddgrasil now, but plan to snipe the msb by year end.



I know that this is a year old. Do you consider the Yggdrasil to be an upgrade to the MSB Premire? My friend has a fully upgraded Premire and it is phenomenal. I honestly don't see how I could go from something like the MSB to the yggdrasil.not saying the yggdrasil is not a good dac but the MSB is on another level completely imo.


----------



## ken6217

CreditingKarma said:


> I know that this is a year old. Do you consider the Yggdrasil to be an upgrade to the MSB Premire? My friend has a fully upgraded Premire and it is phenomenal.



You smoking crack?


----------



## CreditingKarma (May 1, 2020)

ken6217 said:


> You smoking crack?



In the original post he said that he was selling his MSB Premire after getting the Yggdrasil. I was wondering the same thing about the original poster.

The MSB Premire is really incredible. There is actually one for sale here. If I had the cash I would pick it up. I know that there is a cult following around the Yggdrasil here too.


----------



## ken6217

CreditingKarma said:


> In the original post he said that he was selling his MSB Premire after getting the Yggdrasil. I was wondering the same thing about the original poster.
> 
> The MSB Premire is really incredible. There is actually one for sale here. If I had the cash I would pick it up. I know that there is a cult following around the Yggdrasil here too.



Oh OK. He was smoking crack.


----------



## CreditingKarma

ken6217 said:


> Oh OK. He was smoking crack.



That is a distinct possibility.


----------



## Bonddam

That sucks I never was thinking about distortion now thats all I'll thibk about thanks a lot.


----------



## jlbrach

given the lockdown I am thinking of taking up smoking crack lol


----------



## yagislav

What's everybodys favorite ear pad position on your 1266's? Started with the recommended 10o clock, the fit was weird for me personally.


----------



## Roasty

yagislav said:


> What's everybodys favorite ear pad position on your 1266's? Started with the recommended 10o clock, the fit was weird for me personally.



I like 10 and frame pointed slightly forward. I tried 9 but bass became too boomy. 11 bass became lighter for me.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> I like 10 and frame pointed slightly forward. I tried 9 but bass became too boomy. 11 bass became lighter for me.



Exactly 100% like this.


----------



## yagislav

Roasty said:


> I like 10 and frame pointed slightly forward. I tried 9 but bass became too boomy. 11 bass became lighter for me.


Looking at right cup with seam 10 oclock?


----------



## ken6217

yagislav said:


> Looking at right cup with seam 10 oclock?



Yes, and the left too. You should line them both up tbt same.


----------



## spotforscott

For me, the best is 3 oclock


----------



## ken6217

spotforscott said:


> For me, the best is 3 oclock



Is that while looking at it from the front? So you have the wide part of the pads in the front?


----------



## spotforscott

ken6217 said:


> Is that while looking at it from the front? So you have the wide part of the pads in the front?


That is when looking at the right cup. So seam on both right and left cups is at the back, centered in 3 oclock position.


----------



## ken6217 (May 2, 2020)

spotforscott said:


> That is when looking at the right cup. So seam on both right and left cups is at the back, centered in 3 oclock position.



OK. That would be considered 9 o’clock for the purposes of this forum.

It’s based on looking straight at the headphone with the right ear pad to your left.


----------



## Bonddam

I'm at the 10 position with frames slitghtly bent out. I moved the pivot point a little.I have some gap which is enough for the bass. I'm always playing with it.


----------



## tholt

spotforscott said:


> That is when looking at the right cup. So seam on both right and left cups is at the back, centered in 3 oclock position.


Wait, so you've got the seams pointing toward the back of the headphone? 

I find seams either at 10 and 2 or 9 and 3 o'clock to sound the best for bass. The latter gives the most bass due to the largest air gap under your ear. I've settled on 9 and 3 with the frame partway extended and toed in slightly so that the pads face more toward my ears than if it was straight.


----------



## ken6217

tholt said:


> Wait, so you've got the seams pointing toward the back of the headphone?
> 
> I find seams either at 10 and 2 or 9 and 3 o'clock to sound the best for bass. The latter gives the most bass due to the largest air gap under your ear. I've settled on 9 and 3 with the frame partway extended and toed in slightly so that the pads face more toward my ears than if it was straight.



Facing the front. If you’re holding and looking at the headphones the right your pad is on your left. If you’re wearing them the right ear pad is on your right.

if you were looking at somebody wearing them face on. His right ear pad would be on your left side. The seams will be facing the front at 10 o’clock.


----------



## spotforscott

As they say, a pic is worth a 1000 words. Here's how I have mine set up. I like it


 best this way but YMMV...


----------



## CreditingKarma (May 2, 2020)

spotforscott said:


> As they say, a pic is worth a 1000 words. Here's how I have mine set up. I like it best this way but YMMV...




Those pads are definitely on in the reverse of how 99% of abyss owners here probably have them. The most common is that the thick part of the pad is toward the back of your head. This setup must leave a pretty substantial gap in the back. If this how you enjoy them like this that is all that matters.

I would recomend letting the headband float as well. This way you can adjust them by moving them up and down. @Joe Skubinski has done a great video on how to get the best first and sound out of the 1266 on the Abyss youtube page.


----------



## tholt (May 2, 2020)

ken6217 said:


> Facing the front. If you’re holding and looking at the headphones the right your pad is on your left. If you’re wearing them the right ear pad is on your right.


Nope. Based on his pic he has the pads backwards, which is what he said they were. Unless that pic is shown from the front.
That would seem uncomfortable to me, but to each their own!


----------



## ken6217 (May 2, 2020)

CreditingKarma said:


> Those pads are definitely on in the reverse of how 99% of abyss owners here probably have them. The most common is that the thick part of the pad is toward the back of your head. This setup must leave a pretty substantial gap in the back. If this how you enjoy them like this that is all that matters.
> 
> I would recomend letting the headband float as well. This way you can adjust them by moving them up and down. @Joe Skubinski has done a great video on how to get the best first and sound out of the 1266 on the Abyss youtube page.



Yes. This is backward, but if that’s what he likes, that’s all that counts.


----------



## attmci

CreditingKarma said:


> Those pads are definitely on in the reverse of how 99% of abyss owners here probably have them. The most common is that the thick part of the pad is toward the back of your head. This setup must leave a pretty substantial gap in the back. If this how you enjoy them like this that is all that matters.
> 
> I would recomend letting the headband float as well. This way you can adjust them by moving them up and down. @Joe Skubinski has done a great video on how to get the best first and sound out of the 1266 on the Abyss youtube page.


True.


----------



## mangus

Hoping to jump into the mix a bit. Been mostly lurking and trading for years, and 1:1 discussions.  Hit a few Can-Jams over the years and visited the Venetian at CES a few times (where I first heard the original Orpheus and fell in love).

Right now I have a 1266 phi CC and a 1266 phi TC (I’ve been in a massive collecting phase to compare a bunch of gear head to head, but I’ll make that another post).  I will say the TC to my ears is not only more detailed and transparent, but more euphonic. Not that the Phi CC isn’t, it just takes it up another notch. I won’t attempt to get into the subtleties that I consider beyond my scope for now, but it is gorgeous connected to a Cavalli Liquid Gold with a Prion cable (not sure how much the Prion really brings to the table - I haven’t done it blind so likely my own expectations bleeding in). I also have a gen 1 Ragnarok (I know, need to upgrade or sell), which also sounds great, but I prefer the Cavalli sound signature - a bit more euphonic and less analytical to me while just as detailed and transparent (I’m exhausting the characterizations I’m comfortable with!).  Not sure if this is my mind playing tricks, but I do sense a lower sound floor when I have the Prion connected individually to each channel.  I have a nice Forza I want to blind test once I can get a buddy over here (not anytime soon, and my wife would not want to know about the amount invested in cables!).  Right now I listen through a decent vinyl setup (Pro-Ject 9.1 evo with Ortofon bronze) and digital with a gen 1 Yggy. I’m told to really get to the next level it’s time to upgade that DAC, but now I’m veering off-topic. 

Interested in others’ thoughts. 

—Mike


----------



## matthewhypolite

CreditingKarma said:


> In the original post he said that he was selling his MSB Premire after getting the Yggdrasil. I was wondering the same thing about the original poster.
> 
> The MSB Premire is really incredible. There is actually one for sale here. If I had the cash I would pick it up. I know that there is a cult following around the Yggdrasil here too.



No I did not Rolf, in my original post  I said I was going to get the msb premier but I currently own the yggy.....


----------



## CreditingKarma

matthewhypolite said:


> No I did not Rolf, in my original post  I said I was going to get the msb premier but I currently own the yggy.....



Nice I misread sorry premire is a big upgrade. There is one for sale here for 21k fully loaded that is a pretty good deal.


----------



## matthewhypolite

CreditingKarma said:


> Nice I misread sorry premire is a big upgrade. There is one for sale here for 21k fully loaded that is a pretty good deal.


PM me the link. 

Right now however I am checking out vinyl. 
Purchased a few and an entry level turntable to check it out to decide if I want to step up to a flagship turntable and invest into more vinyl.


----------



## F208Frank (May 3, 2020)

Deleted.


----------



## yagislav

F208Frank said:


> Selling Mint Condition Abyss stand, meant to be used with the Abyss 1266.
> 
> Selling due to non use, posted in classifieds/misc.
> 
> PM if interested.


pm'd


----------



## radnor (May 3, 2020)

guys thought you may be interested in this... was going to sell my susvara to fund a TC... however after reading this it seems there is a stack that may push the susvara beyond the TC.... i had been powerign my susvara with the TT2... but always felt something off... I really think these have power requirements beyond most every HP on earth... after reading below that actually seems to be the case. The bakoon amp must be something else... I bet a TC powered by this badboy would be crazy as well.

see this review of susvara run on 5 speaker amps... Bakoon won... this thing has an easter egg feature that gets 25W/channel out of the HP jack!!!!! TBH sounds like this combo knocks down the Abyss TC.

Going to get this amp and try... will defo hold selling the susvara... i dont think even the TT2 can properly drive these... sounds like an entirely different animal with Bakoon... maby best in the world... and this Bakoon amp may be the best HP amp out there as well.

https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/bakoon8/2/


----------



## radnor

delete


----------



## F208Frank

I like TC sound signature more, so for me I doubt a higher powered amp giving Suavara more power will do it for me. Preference.


----------



## astrostar59

radnor said:


> guys thought you may be interested in this... was going to sell my susvara to fund a TC... however after reading this it seems there is a stack that may push the susvara beyond the TC.... i had been powerign my susvara with the TT2... but always felt something off... I really think these have power requirements beyond most every HP on earth... after reading below that actually seems to be the case. The bakoon amp must be something else... I bet a TC powered by this badboy would be crazy as well.
> 
> see this review of susvara run on 5 speaker amps... Bakoon won... this thing has an easter egg feature that gets 25W/channel out of the HP jack!!!!! TBH sounds like this combo knocks down the Abyss TC.
> 
> ...


Interesting amp design. if it has 25W into 8ohms, into 60ohms it is going to be about 6W I would guess.


----------



## radnor (May 3, 2020)

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting amp design. if it has 25W into 8ohms, into 60ohms it is going to be about 6W I would guess.


TT2 is doing 7.5 W into 8 ohms out of jack...  this thing @25W into 8 is a major step up in power.... looking at formula S specs... this is also much more powerful as well...  bet it does wonders on the TC.... Gotta try it  on Susvara and report back.


----------



## radnor

delete


----------



## koven

radnor said:


> TT2 is doing 7.5 W into 8 ohms out of jack...  this thing @25W into 8 is a major step up in power.... looking at formula S specs... this is also much more powerful as well...  bet it does wonders on the TC.... Gotta try it  on Susvara and report back.



I've thought about trying the Bakoon. Their US distributor offers trials (minus shipping).


----------



## CreditingKarma

radnor said:


> TT2 is doing 7.5 W into 8 ohms out of jack...  this thing @25W into 8 is a major step up in power.... looking at formula S specs... this is also much more powerful as well...  bet it does wonders on the TC.... Gotta try it  on Susvara and report back.



Planar headphones depend more on current. The formula s drives the TC and Susvara really well. I would love to give the bakoon a try though.


----------



## Bonddam

How much is balloon?


----------



## koven

Bonddam said:


> How much is balloon?



$6K

https://store.jaguaraudiodesign.com/bakoon-amp-13r-integrated-and-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## koven

It's probably safe to say the Bakoon is incredible, Japanese know HiFi. Luxman, TAD, Shindo, Oyaide, the list goes on. Japan puts out some fine audio products.


----------



## radnor

F208Frank said:


> I like TC sound signature more, so for me I doubt a higher powered amp giving Suavara more power will do it for me. Preference.


looking at wa33 spec... bakoon quite a bit more powerful as well... might be an interesting shootout. seems like few have heard this.... every reviewer that has.. only 3 i know of... were shocked.... 1 uk, 1 german, 1 usa.... seems like susvara is bruce banner and does not turn into the hulk without something like this... need to see the hulk before i sell or will always be wondering!


----------



## radnor (May 3, 2020)

radnor said:


> looking at wa33 spec... bakoon quite a bit more powerful as well... might be an interesting shootout. seems like few have heard this.... every reviewer that has.. only 3 i know of... were shocked.... 1 uk, 1 german, 1 usa.... seems like susvara is bruce banner and does not turn into the hulk without something like this... need to see the hulk before i sell or will always be wondering!


"
_*Ultimate Headphone Amplifier*_

The best possible headphone playback has been our one ambitious requirement to fulfill since the beginning of our company. With the recent releases of our world class headphone amplifiers, we have gathered valuable experience and ideas to make even this a class above what can be expected from our AMP-13R amplifier. The JET SATRI Circuit allow a zero loss amplification factor change, which means one can fully enjoy the EXICON MOSFETs excellent sound quality, direct to the headphone. The AMP-13R also provides the highest output power we have ever designed and will drive any headphone available in the market with a breeze."

May be the grail and also super small! look at the footprint under the susvara. everyone powering the TC and susvara with amps 3 to 4X this and this is more powerful and dynamic.

 all of them.


----------



## CreditingKarma

koven said:


> It's probably safe to say the Bakoon is incredible, Japanese know HiFi. Luxman, TAD, Shindo, Oyaide, the list goes on. Japan puts out some fine audio products.



The bakoon is not a Japanese amp. It is designed and made in South Korea. There is actually a lot of good stuff coming out of South Korea. A&K is out of South Korea too as well as Allnic who make some really great hifi tube amps.


----------



## radnor (May 3, 2020)

CreditingKarma said:


> The bakoon is not a Japanese amp. It is designed and made in South Korea. There is actually a lot of good stuff coming out of South Korea. A&K is out of South Korea too as well as Allnic who make some really great hifi tube amps.


SOTM as well... I have some of their stuff.... however the origin of the Satri circuit - the Bakoon breakthrough -  is from Japan... a Japanese engineer that partnered with a SK engineer... so Bakoon is Japanese and Korean hybrid.


----------



## radnor

delete


----------



## koven

CreditingKarma said:


> The bakoon is not a Japanese amp. It is designed and made in South Korea. There is actually a lot of good stuff coming out of South Korea. A&K is out of South Korea too as well as Allnic who make some really great hifi tube amps.



It is made and HQ'd in SK but the Hifiknight's article specifically talks about the SATRI circuitry born by a Japanese engineer.


----------



## CreditingKarma

koven said:


> It is made and HQ'd in SK but the Hifiknight's article specifically talks about the SATRI circuitry born by a Japanese engineer.




Ni worries I was just saying that it is a South Korean based company that is all. They do R&D in Japan and manufacture and are headquartered in Korea. Either way it looks interesting and if I didn't just pickup the formula s and powerman a few months back I would be interested in one to try. The wallet needs a break for a bit after the Bartok and Formula S combo.


----------



## jlbrach

CreditingKarma said:


> Planar headphones depend more on current. The formula s drives the TC and Susvara really well. I would love to give the bakoon a try though.


I have found the formula s/powerman combo to do a fine job with both the abyss TC and the susvara...I have heard the susvara with more power didnt find it appreciably better than the formula s combo but I havent heard the bakoon


----------



## koven

Gotta keep chasing that last 1% I suppose, part of the fun ain't it?


----------



## Roasty

Anyone here listen to this singer Benee? I find her voice quite unique and her songs sound super fun on the TC as well as during the drive to work. Love the bass on her tracks.


----------



## radnor (May 3, 2020)

jlbrach said:


> I have found the formula s/powerman combo to do a fine job with both the abyss TC and the susvara...I have heard the susvara with more power didnt find it appreciably better than the formula s combo but I havent heard the bakoon


Read the article where he compares 5 speaker amps.... Bakoon appreciably better than all of them... I Would guess it’s a step up from form s... seems like it has some real magic with this jet satri design... its also the smallest most high performance amp in the world.... seems if this were marketed as HP amp alone it would set the headfi world on fire... “
With the introduction of the patent-pending JET Bias Circuit, first to be implemented in our new AMP-13R, we’ve renamed our circuit, JET SATRI Circuit. We consider The JET Bias Circuit to be a revolution in audio amplifier design. The bias is now perfectly stabilized in merely milliseconds, and this means that the transistors can reach their “sweet spot” for the best possible performance instantaneously. That’s why we call it “JET”.

 As the precise temperature sensor tracks the change in temperature and re-calibrates the bias in real-time, the amplification and sound is not influenced by any temperature variations. It might sound simple, but it requires the most complex innovative thinking and mastery in engineering – in both the analogue, digital and software domain. The JET Bias Circuit was born from a perfect harmony of ADC, DAC and microprocessor (MPU) with highly intelligent software.”


----------



## Jon L

CreditingKarma said:


> Planar headphones depend more on current. The formula s drives the TC and Susvara really well. I would love to give the bakoon a try though.



CURRENT is truly key in bringing 1266 TC to its pinnacle.  I was finally able to adapt Norne Silvergarde S3 OCC silver litz cable onto 1266 TC into custom 4-pin XLR adapter into Jotunheim R, and this particular combo is breathtaking.  In fact, I believe 1266 TC sounds better out of Jot R than Raal SR1a does (with same Norne cable).  
I had to make a special custom power cord and switch to a great interconnect for synergy, but the Jot R dumping TONS of current through the OCC silver litz cable into 1266 TC is spine-tingling in smoothness, detail resolution, dynamic power, bass quality/quantity, and pure musical involvement!




0503201543 by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## ken6217 (May 3, 2020)

There's a hell of a lot more to an amp than power rating.


----------



## ken6217

radnor said:


> TT2 is doing 7.5 W into 8 ohms out of jack...  this thing @25W into 8 is a major step up in power.... looking at formula S specs... this is also much more powerful as well...  bet it does wonders on the TC.... Gotta try it  on Susvara and report back.



But your'e not going into 8 ohms. Those numbers drop a lot going into 47 or 60 ohms.


----------



## paradoxper

radnor said:


> guys thought you may be interested in this... was going to sell my susvara to fund a TC... however after reading this it seems there is a stack that may push the susvara beyond the TC.... i had been powerign my susvara with the TT2... but always felt something off... I really think these have power requirements beyond most every HP on earth... after reading below that actually seems to be the case. The bakoon amp must be something else... I bet a TC powered by this badboy would be crazy as well.
> 
> see this review of susvara run on 5 speaker amps... Bakoon won... this thing has an easter egg feature that gets 25W/channel out of the HP jack!!!!! TBH sounds like this combo knocks down the Abyss TC.
> 
> ...


You might just want to give the HPA-21 a listen before you buy into world-changing hype.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> You might just want to give the HPA-21 a listen before you buy into world-changing hype.



It might be too late. I think he already bought her the ring.


----------



## jlbrach

koven said:


> Gotta keep chasing that last 1% I suppose, part of the fun ain't it?


ain't that the truth?


----------



## radnor (May 4, 2020)

So picked up the Bakoon tonight. Turns the susvara around quite a bit... more dynamic... smooth.... rich... VS TT2 direct which wa slacking dynamics and seemed overly sibilant. This is also the smallest amp of its type in existence see pics... would look good in chord stack if all were black as almost identical dimensions. Susvara much more engaging and musical. Handing it over to Koven Saturday. He will compare to HPA4... this thing is Really good guys... probably one of the best... coupled with minimalist footprint it’s a desktop dream machine.


----------



## radnor

radnor said:


> So picked up the Bakoon tonight from the dude that makes it.  Turns the susvara around quite a bit... more dynamic... smooth.... rich... VS TT2 direct which wa slacking dynamics and seemed overly sibilant. This is also the smallest amp of its type in existence see pics... would look good in chord stack if all were black as almost identical dimensions. Susvara much more engaging and musical. Handing it over to Koven Saturday. He will compare to HPA4... this thing is Really good guys... probably one of the best... coupled with minimalist footprint it’s a desktop dream machine.


----------



## Roasty

Looks like u need to get all black TT2 and mscaler now haha 

Bakoon amp.. I find the "feet" quite odd. I have demoed one of the older Bakoon amps driving the HD800S and it was the most bass I've ever heard out of the HD800S.

Looking forward to the hpa4 comparison.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

wow, that can consider as a super compact size for that kind of amp

I always love bakoon house sound, and generally they pair so well with hifiman cans (old school set up was Bakoon 5210 and HE6)


----------



## drew911d

Have you tried the rear terminals of the TT2?  It's something like double the power compared to the front HP jack.  It opens the dynamics and impact of the Phi +CC noticeably.  I'd like to hear how that compares to the Bakoon.


----------



## radnor

drew911d said:


> Have you tried the rear terminals of the TT2?  It's something like double the power compared to the front HP jack.  It opens the dynamics and impact of the Phi +CC noticeably.  I'd like to hear how that compares to the Bakoon.


Have not however even rear taps on tt2 don’t come close to HP jack on Bakoon.  15W VS 25W from Bakoon HP jack!


----------



## radnor

Roasty said:


> Looks like u need to get all black TT2 and mscaler now haha
> 
> Bakoon amp.. I find the "feet" quite odd. I have demoed one of the older Bakoon amps driving the HD800S and it was the most bass I've ever heard out of the HD800S.
> 
> Looking forward to the hpa4 comparison.


Yes all 3 in black would be killer!


----------



## CreditingKarma

radnor said:


> Have not however even rear taps on tt2 don’t come close to HP jack on Bakoon.  15W VS 25W from Bakoon HP jack!



There is only one way to tell. Try the Jack's on the back of the TT2 as well. I have tried the TC with speaker amps. I have tried it with my hegel h360 and it produces more bass ( not like that is really needed with the TC). I am not sure this has to do with pure power but maybe also something to do with how amps deal with the impedance of the transducer that they are driving. IMO the TC sounds just as good if not better out of the Formula S than it does with the Hegel. To each their own I am glad that you really like the Bakoon sounds like you will be keeping your susvara.


----------



## radnor

CreditingKarma said:


> There is only one way to tell. Try the Jack's on the back of the TT2 as well. I have tried the TC with speaker amps. I have tried it with my hegel h360 and it produces more bass ( not like that is really needed with the TC). I am not sure this has to do with pure power but maybe also something to do with how amps deal with the impedance of the transducer that they are driving. IMO the TC sounds just as good if not better out of the Formula S than it does with the Hegel. To each their own I am glad that you really like the Bakoon sounds like you will be keeping your susvara.



Still don’t think I will keep susvara... lcd4z although darker... the richness of the bass is something that attracts me... just ordered them again for a third time to try with Bakoon... this is what the Bakoon founder uses personally.


----------



## CreditingKarma

radnor said:


> Still don’t think I will keep susvara... lcd4z although darker... the richness of the bass is something that attracts me... just ordered them again for a third time to try with Bakoon... this is what the Bakoon founder uses personally.



I sold my 4z and ended up with the TC. The TC blows the 4a out of the water imo. Also the 25 watts would be completely overkill for the 4a. They are pretty easy to drive.


----------



## radnor

CreditingKarma said:


> I sold my 4z and ended up with the TC. The TC blows the 4a out of the water imo. Also the 25 watts would be completely overkill for the 4a. They are pretty easy to drive.


This is the exact reason I would trade my susvara for a TC.... I think that may be my destination....

Also Just got this from BAKOON for those interested...7 watts at 32 ohms, 4 watts at 60 ohms. With Susvara, 4 watts reaches 119dB, which is ear shattering level. Plenty of power from the AMP-13R .

Would love to hear the TC with the Bakoon!


----------



## ken6217

Let your ears tell you. Don’t get hung up on the numbers. Power is only one small part of what makes an amp good.


----------



## F208Frank

Also I feel worried with using amps with too much power, specifically speaker amps with headphones due to accidentally blowing them up. 

Though unlikely, the thought of using speaker amps with headphone amps makes me feel uncomfortable. 

Some of my fave amps are the HPA4 and the WA33.


----------



## ken6217

F208Frank said:


> Also I feel worried with using amps with too much power, specifically speaker amps with headphones due to accidentally blowing them up.
> 
> Though unlikely, the thought of using speaker amps with headphone amps makes me feel uncomfortable.
> 
> Some of my fave amps are the HPA4 and the WA33.



I’m using a Simaudio 600i which is 125W into 8 ohms. Somewhere about 18 watts into 47 ohms. There re other on this forum with the same amp, and one person with a Pass Labs amp of 250 watts into 8 ohms. None of us have issues.


----------



## DJJEZ

F208Frank said:


> Also I feel worried with using amps with too much power, specifically speaker amps with headphones due to accidentally blowing them up.
> 
> Though unlikely, the thought of using speaker amps with headphone amps makes me feel uncomfortable.
> 
> Some of my fave amps are the HPA4 and the WA33.



Did you try the hpa4 with the 1266tc?


----------



## radnor

DJJEZ said:


> Did you try the hpa4 with the 1266tc?


I have a parasound JC5. 400W into 8 OHMS.... seed to fire the Susvara up on this... dont have cable for the taps though.


----------



## MacedonianHero

DJJEZ said:


> Did you try the hpa4 with the 1266tc?



FWIW, it is my "go to" amp for my TC.


----------



## F208Frank

DJJEZ said:


> Did you try the hpa4 with the 1266tc?


Yes it was a good combo. Clean.


----------



## DJJEZ

MacedonianHero said:


> FWIW, it is my "go to" amp for my TC.



ive read your review for it


----------



## Roasty (May 5, 2020)

Got in touch with Stefan and he got this delivered in about 5 days. I think the aesthetic suits the abyss well.


----------



## yagislav

This is an awesome stand, how about when you have the cables attached? Does it put stress on the connectors?


----------



## Roasty

yagislav said:


> This is an awesome stand, how about when you have the cables attached? Does it put stress on the connectors?



The headphones are held high enough that there is enough room for the attached cable to dangle freely. No stress on the connectors, even with the thick superconductor cable placed below.


----------



## FLTWS

Do you have a link to the supplier?
Thanks


----------



## supervisor

they are expensive and I don't see that they ship to the United States (does not let me check out!)

https://www.headphoneauditions.nl/product/haa-abyss-stand/


----------



## Roasty

supervisor said:


> they are expensive and I don't see that they ship to the United States (does not let me check out!)
> 
> https://www.headphoneauditions.nl/product/haa-abyss-stand/



Yeah they didn't list my country as a shipment destination on their website. Just email Stefan and he will help you out.


----------



## StefanHAA

Hi guys, this is Stefan from Headphone Auditions in Amsterdam. Christian from ROOMS Design and I developed the stand based on his fabulous FS-Pro. The stand is cool, my webshop is not, that is true and sorry about that. Please send me an email on stefan@headphoneauditions.nl for any question or orders. Thank you to Roasty for the cool pics!


----------



## Focux

Roasty said:


> Got in touch with Stefan and he got this delivered in about 5 days. I think the aesthetic suits the abyss well.



jesus, this looks cool as hell albeit alil odd in overall structure


----------



## F208Frank

Looks like a good stand, my non abyss headphone stand room came with wood chip once but can not deny, room has always made the nicest looking headphone stands.

The Abyss stand looks beautiful and makes me want to get one hoping no paint chips off again.


----------



## Litlgi74 (May 5, 2020)

Usual crew... Lol

@Zhanming057 sold his 1266 

But where's @ken6217 ?


----------



## Roasty (May 6, 2020)

Hmm I think my right driver has issues. Past few days, the right driver doesn't play any music, until I raise the volume above a certain level. Then the right driver kicks in and music plays. Following that, I can lower volume down low without music cutting out on the right side. On occasion there is very soft static distortion for under a second at a time; this happens not often. 

If I don't raise the volume up high first, there is only music from the left side. 

Have replicated this scenario with my hpa4, gsx mini and wa22 and stock and superconductor cables.


----------



## F208Frank

Roasty said:


> Hmm I think my right driver has issues. Past few days, the right driver doesn't play any music, until I raise the volume above a certain level. Then the right driver kicks in and music plays. Following that, I can lower volume down low without music cutting out on the right side. On occasion there is very soft static distortion for under a second at a time; this happens not often.
> 
> If I don't raise the volume up high first, there is only music from the left side.
> 
> Have replicated this scenario with my hpa4, gsx mini and wa22 and stock and superconductor cables.


How old is your headphone and did you buys yours brand new? Just curious as I have not seen too many driver failures as of yet. Thanks.


----------



## yagislav (May 6, 2020)

For the people who have tried dekoni nuggets with the 1266, does the adhesive become really hard to remove if you wanted to take the nuggets off?

Have the issue where the pads sit too low on my head, feels like the pads are hanging on the top of my ears. Purchased the dekoni nuggets but havent applied them yet. 

Does anybody have experience between setting the two nuggets closer to the center of the headband vs widest position of the headband?


----------



## Roasty

F208Frank said:


> How old is your headphone and did you buys yours brand new? Just curious as I have not seen too many driver failures as of yet. Thanks.



I bought it new from a local dealer and it is less than a year old. This morning I tried it again and it worked OK. Contemplating if I should just wait it out for right side to fail completely before bringing it back. Might end up they can't find anything wrong if I bring it in now. Like some car issues.. When u bring it into the mechanic, and can't reproduce the problem there and then, and they give it a clean bill of health kinda thing..


----------



## F208Frank

Roasty said:


> I bought it new from a local dealer and it is less than a year old. This morning I tried it again and it worked OK. Contemplating if I should just wait it out for right side to fail completely before bringing it back. Might end up they can't find anything wrong if I bring it in now. Like some car issues.. When u bring it into the mechanic, and can't reproduce the problem there and then, and they give it a clean bill of health kinda thing..


Keep us posted!


----------



## spotforscott

yagislav said:


> For the people who have tried dekoni nuggets with the 1266, does the adhesive become really hard to remove if you wanted to take the nuggets off?
> 
> Have the issue where the pads sit too low on my head, feels like the pads are hanging on the top of my ears. Purchased the dekoni nuggets but havent applied them yet.
> 
> Does anybody have experience between setting the two nuggets closer to the center of the headband vs widest position of the headband?


No problem at all. Adhesive is not a problem


----------



## ken6217

Litlgi74 said:


> Usual crew... Lol
> 
> @Zhanming057 sold his 1266
> 
> But where's @ken6217 ?



I'm here.  

It was easier to stay tuned here before Head fi changed. I never get updates with new posts.


----------



## Roasty

To get back on track, I got in touch with my Abyss dealer and highlighted the issue I had with the right side driver. 

He said that if the hp hasn't been used in a while, the driver goes to "sleep". He has experienced this with Diana before.

Not sure what to make of it, since it only happened to one side rather than both.

As of now it is working OK, so both agreed to just monitor for now, and to bring it in only if the right channel fails completely.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Outside of enjoying the TC's most nights... planted and cichlid tanks are my other hobby. I will be back with a pic this weekend that won't compare to either of yours lol @Roasty @ken6217 

Also, just following up on my earlier fit issues and progress. Since I've made the changes referenced in my last post in this thread I have had 0 distortion whatsoever. Not on a single track, bending the frame was the key for my particular head shape.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> To get back on track, I got in touch with my Abyss dealer and highlighted the issue I had with the right side driver.
> 
> He said that if the hp hasn't been used in a while, the driver goes to "sleep". He has experienced this with Diana before.
> 
> ...



The driver (and always the same driver I might add) goes to sleep? This sounds like it goes under the same category of someone pissing in your ear and telling you its raining.


----------



## CreditingKarma

ken6217 said:


> The driver (and always the same driver I might add) goes to sleep? This sounds like it goes under the same category of someone pissing in your ear and telling you its raining.



Yes it could be something like an intermittent connection with the wiring. If you are in the USA maybe try reaching out directly to Hoe and the abyss team.


----------



## koven

Roasty said:


> He said that if the hp hasn't been used in a while, the driver goes to "sleep".



This may be the the funniest thing I've ever read on Head Fi, LOL.


----------



## jlbrach

goes to sleep....was that a serious response?


----------



## ajaipuriyar (May 8, 2020)

Roasty said:


> Hmm I think my right driver has issues. Past few days, the right driver doesn't play any music, until I raise the volume above a certain level. Then the right driver kicks in and music plays. Following that, I can lower volume down low without music cutting out on the right side. On occasion there is very soft static distortion for under a second at a time; this happens not often.
> 
> If I don't raise the volume up high first, there is only music from the left side.
> 
> Have replicated this scenario with my hpa4, gsx mini and wa22 and stock and superconductor cables.




I have the exact issue in the right driver since January. It doesn't "wake-up" till I turn up the volume of my amp considerably. 

But once it "wakes up" everything works well and I turn the volume down.

"Waking-up" is exactly how i described it to Joe and he has sent me a RMA form.

Haven't been able to mail it across to him due to covid.

I too have tested it across multiple amps with the stock and SC cable.

I brought mine in August 2019 from Joe. When did you buy yours?

Stay Safe!!!


----------



## Roasty

Looking back, he didn't say sleep. But I've never heard of drivers stop working if not being used for a while.

Oh well.. I'll update if there is anything to update.


----------



## Roasty (May 8, 2020)

ajaipuriyar said:


> I have the exact issue in the right driver since January. It doesn't "wake-up" till I turn up the volume of my amp considerably.
> 
> But once it "wakes up" everything works well and I turn the volume down.
> 
> ...



Oh ok I'm sorry to hear you're having the same issues as me, but at the same time, well, I'm somewhat relieved I'm not the only one experiencing this issue!

So Abyss has asked you to send in the hp for testing? Who is footing the shipping to and fro?

I got mine new in Oct 2019.


----------



## ajaipuriyar

Roasty said:


> Oh ok I'm sorry to hear you're having the same issues as me, but at the same time, well, I'm somewhat relieved I'm not the only one experiencing this issue!
> 
> So Abyss has asked you to send in the hp for testing? Who is footing the shipping to and fro?
> 
> I got mine new in Oct 2019.



 I live in India. So shipping to JPS will be on me. Haven't discussed the return part. I am sure they have a policy for it.

 As its under warranty, they will test and repair/replace.





.


----------



## Roasty (May 8, 2020)

It's gotten worse today. Right driver sound cut out several times during play. Only returns on raising volume high. Will be sending it in to the dealer for them to have to checked out.

Oh well, looks like my other headphones will get some play time for a while.

By the way, did u guys register for the extended 3 year warranty? I didn't know it existed, and I missed the 90 day from purchase date time limit to apply for it.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> It's gotten worse today. Right driver sound cut out several times during play. Only returns on raising volume high. Will be sending it in to the dealer for them to have to checked out.
> 
> Oh well, looks like my other headphones will get some play time for a while.
> 
> By the way, did u guys register for the extended 3 year warranty? I didn't know it existed, and I missed the 90 day from purchase date time limit to apply for it.



I guess the driver must be super tired now.

I didn’t know about that extended warranty period either.


----------



## TheMiddleSky (May 8, 2020)

Heard few cases about "sleep" driver problems before, with headphones from Stax, Audeze and Focal (and Sennheiser but I can't remember exactly at which model). The general phrase of "sleep" driver is the easiest to understand to people with non-technic knowledge, although may sound like a joke. In my experience, most often than not it would become more serious and can lead to death (of the particular driver).

And I know few distributors/dealers in my area who encourage a headphone store to play their headphones at least once a week (in case no one tried demo unit at all), to prevent this sleepy problem.

Of course, this won't happen to all headphones unit, even at brands that I mention above (I have experience with stax units that could go off for months and still function normal). Think about it like slight defect products, but not dead on arrival or suddenly stop playing when in use.


----------



## tholt

Roasty said:


> Right driver sound cut out several times during play.


Interesting. Maybe it's a loose connection?


----------



## Jon L

Roasty said:


> By the way, did u guys register for the extended 3 year warranty? I didn't know it existed, and I missed the 90 day from purchase date time limit to apply for it.


I did fill out the form on their website for the extended warranty, but what's weird and frustrating is JPS Labs does not send you anything as confirmation they received your form.  No receipt, no email, no website reply, no nothing.   No way to know if the form went through and/or warranty is extended.


----------



## ekfc63

Jon L said:


> I did fill out the form on their website for the extended warranty, but what's weird and frustrating is JPS Labs does not send you anything as confirmation they received your form.  No receipt, no email, no website reply, no nothing.   No way to know if the form went through and/or warranty is extended.



+1

I had to email them to ask for a confirmation, which I duly received


----------



## CreditingKarma

ekfc63 said:


> +1
> 
> I had to email them to ask for a confirmation, which I duly received


I filled it out and am all set. The customer service from Joe and the team has been awesome almost as good as the headphones.


----------



## FLTWS

Jon L said:


> I did fill out the form on their website for the extended warranty, but what's weird and frustrating is JPS Labs does not send you anything as confirmation they received your form.  No receipt, no email, no website reply, no nothing.   No way to know if the form went through and/or warranty is extended.



I got a confirmation by e-mail.


----------



## Litlgi74 (May 8, 2020)

FLTWS said:


> I got a confirmation by e-mail.


I didn't receive the confirmation email. Maybe because if the covid shutdown?


----------



## FLTWS

I got mine Nov 2017, it took about 60 days but it came. With the current situation everything seems to be a bit backed up.


----------



## Roasty

tholt said:


> Interesting. Maybe it's a loose connection?



I hope it is a simple fix. I'll have to wait about a month before I can send it in; where I'm at (Singapore), it's covid measures till June and all non-essential services are closed. If dealer has to send it back to USA, then my hp downtime will be even longer.

Now that this has happened with my abyss, going to try my luck with the 3 Yr warranty application and send off the form later today. I've crossed the 90 day period by about 4 months.. :| Need to go and find my original invoice from my storage room. Ah.. Wish I had found out about this application thing earlier!


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> Looking back, he didn't say sleep. But I've never heard of drivers stop working if not being used for a while.
> 
> Oh well.. I'll update if there is anything to update.


Dame. I may have to check a bunch of sleeping drivers and wake them up.


----------



## tholt

Roasty said:


> it's covid measures till June and all non-essential services are closed


I would argue that due to circumstances, music is an essential service!


----------



## larryzotter

Anyone tried running these off a WM1Z?


----------



## F208Frank

larryzotter said:


> Anyone tried running these off a WM1Z?


Probably can be done but just not so optimal.


----------



## ken6217

larryzotter said:


> Anyone tried running these off a WM1Z?



I haven’t, but regardless there is no way you can remotely drive the 1266 effectively with that. There’s a lot of other options out there if you’re going to spend $3k.


----------



## larryzotter

Thanks @ken6217 and @F208Frank  !


----------



## supervisor

finally got a replacement cable for the ridiculously annoying stock cable. Synergistic Research Foundation--highly recommended.


----------



## Litlgi74

supervisor said:


> finally got a replacement cable for the ridiculously annoying stock cable. Synergistic Research Foundation--highly recommended.


Would you want to sell your stock cable?


----------



## ekfc63

supervisor said:


> finally got a replacement cable for the ridiculously annoying stock cable. Synergistic Research Foundation--highly recommended.



I’m wondering how it compares to the stock cable and the Superconductor cable


----------



## ken6217

ekfc63 said:


> I’m wondering how it compares to the stock cable and the Superconductor cable



i’ve never heard their headphone cable, but have use their power cable, digital cable, and interconnects. a few times in the past. They are usually musically sounding, but definitely have their own sound signature.(color).

I was going to try their outlets, but I got tired of screwing around with my system


----------



## supervisor

ekfc63 said:


> I’m wondering how it compares to the stock cable and the Superconductor cable



I am sure at $2,000 it sounds lovely


----------



## ekfc63

supervisor said:


> I am sure at $2,000 it sounds lovely



$2,000?  I’m seeing $695 for 2.5m on the website 

https://www.synergisticresearch.com/accessories/headphone/headphone-cables/


----------



## Hoegaardener70

I must admit that I am pretty much a Noob on amp specs, output power and headphone requirements. I do know that the ab-1266 tc requires a lot of power, but I am not sure in which technical data this translates. Abyss states the following parameters:

*Impedance:* 47 ohms nominal
*Sensitivity:* 88 dB/mW
Any amp is described with output power and voltage. For example, the iCan Pro has an power output of 16 ohms, with balanced 14,000mW. Output Voltage is 600 Ohms with balanced >23 V  . Could anybody explain the relationships here? *My specific question is, can the ab-1266 tc be driven with an amp producing 2 x 1W @ 1kHz under 32 Ω*? Sorry if you think these questions are basic, for me they are not. Thanks for your help


----------



## supervisor

ekfc63 said:


> $2,000?  I’m seeing $695 for 2.5m on the website
> 
> https://www.synergisticresearch.com/accessories/headphone/headphone-cables/



I am talking about Superconductor.


----------



## jlbrach

supervisor said:


> finally got a replacement cable for the ridiculously annoying stock cable. Synergistic Research Foundation--highly recommended.


funny, of all the stock cables I have ever owned the abyss 1266 is by far the best


----------



## Hoegaardener70

jlbrach said:


> funny, of all the stock cables I have ever owned the abyss 1266 is by far the best



It is a good cable but an ergonomic challenge.


----------



## F208Frank (May 12, 2020)

Abyss stock cable is one of the best stock cables given imo.

@Roasty I got my Room's stand after seeing yours and am quite happy though it is quite expensive. My previous experience of Room stands were a bad one since I got the wooden version. The wood chipped off easily and felt build was really cheap for the price.

This Abyss one is made out of steel throughout and was pleasantly surprised as the wooden version also was too light. Overall pretty happy but wish price was little cheaper.

I got it from the same source you got it from. Good guy to work with, and was in communication from begin to end.


----------



## supervisor (May 12, 2020)

Abyss cable sounds great but it's a nightmare ergonomically. Did not want to replace it because of sound.

What cable are you using @F208Frank?


----------



## F208Frank (May 12, 2020)

supervisor said:


> Abyss cable sounds great but it's a nightmare ergonomically. Did not want to replace it because of sound.
> 
> What cable are you using @F208Frank?


I am using the superconductor cable by abyss. When comparing to stock, they are both good in their own ways and I can live with either. The SC cable is def expensive for what it is but...

at the same time though, these smaller headphone manufacturers do not sell enough volume of their headphones to make a lavish living of any kind with all their expenses so I see it as a way to support them furthur by "thanking them" for making the TC. Joe and his two sons are really likable so that helps too.

I used to automatically think headphone companies selling expensive headphones making a killing, but after some digging around not really.

If they did not have passion for it and commit, it would be much more efficient to make money elsewhere. (Strictly talking about smaller manufacturers)

With that said though the headphone price creep over time to current day is bit crazy, never did we think headphones would cost the same as a pair of extremely capable speakers.

Unfortunate how it works but it is what it is, not to mention our government printing out more and more fiat money, making all our hard earned money worth less and less. Save that for different discussion lol.


----------



## Roasty

F208Frank said:


> Abyss stock cable is one of the best stock cables given imo.
> 
> @Roasty I got my Room's stand after seeing yours and am quite happy though it is quite expensive. My previous experience of Room stands were a bad one since I got the wooden version. The wood chipped off easily and felt build was really cheap for the price.
> 
> ...



Hey that's great! Yeah I agree it is a bit expensive for a stand.. I'm sure if they priced it a little better, they would get a lot more orders.

I also ended up ordering a few clear plastic Stax headphone covers off ebay, and are being sent from Japan. Hopefully they're big enough to go over the Abyss. I think no prob for my other cans.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (May 12, 2020)

Roasty said:


> Hey that's great! Yeah I agree it is a bit expensive for a stand.. I'm sure if they priced it a little better, they would get a lot more orders.
> 
> I also ended up ordering a few clear plastic Stax headphone covers off ebay, and are being sent from Japan. Hopefully they're big enough to go over the Abyss. I think no prob for my other cans.



The stax covers fit the abyss l, but barely so. I am using them for the ab-1266 on the audioquest stand- a tight fit but it works. Looking at the (pretty) headphone stand, it will work there too.


----------



## drew911d

So my elastic bands both broke.  The pad.  I bought my Phi in Nov 2017.  Been awesome so far.  In the last two months both of the elastic bands broke.  I still love these and use them hours daily.

The first, left side broke and I replaced it with an automotive zip tie.  I replaced exactly the path of the original O-Ring rubber band.  I then later did the same with the right side when it broke.  I can no longer offer adjustabilitiy to fit any other user, but it's fixed to my head.  And it works great for me.  Free fix.

The point, and I haven't seen it so far, is where the break occurs.  Both sides happened at the leather pad.  The same point.  The rubber O-ring broke at exactly the same place both sides.  Where the O-Ring is stiched into the pad.  It's way too f....ng tight.  No room for that elasticity to flex.  So it causes a stress point, and breaks.  In fact, when each broke I had to pull hard to remove the O-Ring to remove it from the pad before I could use my zip tie fix.  The tight stitching held onto the broken O-Rings, bad execution.  Those O-Rings should float freely.  That stress is the cause of these breakages we are dealing with.


----------



## tholt

drew911d said:


> Where the O-Ring is stiched into the pad. It's way too f....ng tight.


 I don't have that issue. I can pretty easily rotate my O rings through the stitched slot in the pad.


----------



## F208Frank (May 13, 2020)

Deleted.


----------



## drew911d

Excellent!  A sign that they are correcting the problem proactively.



tholt said:


> I don't have that issue. I can pretty easily rotate my O rings through the stitched slot in the pad.


----------



## ken6217

tholt said:


> I don't have that issue. I can pretty easily rotate my O rings through the stitched slot in the pad.



Mine as well.


----------



## tholt (May 14, 2020)

drew911d said:


> Excellent! A sign that they are correcting the problem proactively.


I don't know, could just be a QC issue with yours/some. My pads are pretty old, they originally came with OGs.

Edit -- I meant headbands, I have two.


----------



## ken6217

Saw this in another forum. This for all of us that own this amp and TC combo. 

Enter the Abyss TC planar magnetic headphone. This has the bass and creamy mids of the LCD4, but crucially the faster treble of the very best electrostatics, and the biggest soundstage I have ever heard on any headphone, even beyond the soundstage king - the Sennheiser HD800/820.

Here it is being powered off the back of the Moon 600i 125W integrated, which equates to about 12W at 33ohms for the Abyss impedance load. It sound marvellous.


----------



## Litlgi74

ken6217 said:


> Saw this in another forum. This for all of us that own this amp and TC combo.
> 
> Enter the Abyss TC planar magnetic headphone. This has the bass and creamy mids of the LCD4, but crucially the faster treble of the very best electrostatics, and the biggest soundstage I have ever heard on any headphone, even beyond the soundstage king - the Sennheiser HD800/820.
> 
> Here it is being powered off the back of the Moon 600i 125W integrated, which equates to about 12W at 33ohms for the Abyss impedance load. It sound marvellous.


I concur...


----------



## Hoegaardener70

If anybody is interested in an amp which does not cost nearly twice the price of the headphone, I am very happy with the ifi Pro iCan


----------



## Hoegaardener70

drew911d said:


> Excellent!  A sign that they are correcting the problem proactively.




I just checked mine, same issue as with yours. Hope it doesn't break any time soon.


----------



## ken6217 (May 14, 2020)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> If anybody is interested in an amp which does not cost nearly twice the price of the headphone, I am very happy with the ifi Pro iCan



I’ll amend your post. You mean an amp that cost twice as much as the headphone. You do get what you pay for in this case.


----------



## yagislav (May 14, 2020)

I love Abyss and own both the V2 and 1266 TC but I have to post this. I have had these brand new 1266 TC for roughly two weeks now. The band has already snapped. I have read about this in this thread but usually it happens much much longer down the road. I cannot believe it has happened within two weeks. I love these headphones so much and now amidst the covid situation this happens..
I do not rotate the headband by any means even though some people do this to get a tighter fit. I don't evne have the headphones stretched to the widest position which would make the band taut.
Such unfortunate timing as I look forward to listening to these headphones everyday since we are stuck at home.

Is there any temporary fix that would allow me to continue listening to these while I try and get the situation sorted?


----------



## number1sixerfan

Litlgi74 said:


> I concur...



What cables are you all using with speaker taps? Or are you using an adapter?


----------



## Abyss Headphones (May 14, 2020)

@yagislav Have you contacted your dealer or us directly? Headband breakage with a new headphones is very uncommon, we ship a replacement UPS air. Best to email us... info@abyss-headphones.com


----------



## Roasty

yagislav said:


> I love Abyss and own both the V2 and 1266 TC but I have to post this. I have had these brand new 1266 TC for roughly two weeks now. The band has already snapped. I have read about this in this thread but usually it happens much much longer down the road. I cannot believe it has happened within two weeks. I love these headphones so much and now amidst the covid situation this happens..
> I do not rotate the headband by any means even though some people do this to get a tighter fit. I don't evne have the headphones stretched to the widest position which would make the band taut.
> Such unfortunate timing as I look forward to listening to these headphones everyday since we are stuck at home.
> 
> Is there any temporary fix that would allow me to continue listening to these while I try and get the situation sorted?



Welcome to the club. I had mine snap not too long ago. I think it happened around the 2nd or 3rd month of ownership. I used several rubber bands and a ziptie whilst waiting for a new one which I ordered from abyss.


----------



## jlbrach

I have had 3 versions of the 1266 and never had an issue with the band....lucky I guess although I am really careful


----------



## jlbrach

Hoegaardener70 said:


> If anybody is interested in an amp which does not cost nearly twice the price of the headphone, I am very happy with the ifi Pro iCan


the iffi ican is actually quite a good and relatively inexpensive amp....plenty of power for any HP


----------



## Litlgi74

Abyss Headphones said:


> @yagislav Have you contacted your dealer or us directly? Headband breakage with a new headphones is very uncommon, we ship a replacement UPS air. Best to email us... info@abyss-headphones.com


@Abyss Headphones ... Maybe you could ease the minds of those who are fearful of their headbands breaking... If the rubber rings break on our headbands... Would the replacement be covered under the warranty / extended warranty?

Thanks


----------



## Litlgi74

number1sixerfan said:


> What cables are you all using with speaker taps? Or are you using an adapter?


I am using an inexpensive custom-made female XLR to speaker tap adapter. It was made by a fellow head-fi member... @teds headfood of https://headphonelounge.com/... @Abyss Headphones can make one out of superconductor cable as well.


----------



## Marco_tam (May 14, 2020)

yagislav said:


> I love Abyss and own both the V2 and 1266 TC but I have to post this. I have had these brand new 1266 TC for roughly two weeks now. The band has already snapped. I have read about this in this thread but usually it happens much much longer down the road. I cannot believe it has happened within two weeks. I love these headphones so much and now amidst the covid situation this happens..
> I do not rotate the headband by any means even though some people do this to get a tighter fit. I don't evne have the headphones stretched to the widest position which would make the band taut.
> Such unfortunate timing as I look forward to listening to these headphones everyday since we are stuck at home.
> 
> Is there any temporary fix that would allow me to continue listening to these while I try and get the situation sorted?



Mine snapped within two months and I had been really really careful with my Abyss and never hung it on a stand.

Here is what I did:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-15579016


----------



## F208Frank (May 14, 2020)

A big reason why I bought the Rooms stand was so that I can avoid hanging by the leather strap due to the horror stories of the bands snapping.

The official Abyss headphone stand makes it so that you need to hang by the leather strap which is a neat tidy presentation, but the amount of people reporting bands breaking scared me so I changed headphone stands.


----------



## tholt

F208Frank said:


> The official Abyss headphone stand makes it so that you need to hang by the leather strap which is a neat tidy presentation, but the amount of people reporting bands breaking scared me so I changed headphone stands.


Seconded


----------



## ken6217

number1sixerfan said:


> What cables are you all using with speaker taps? Or are you using an adapter?



JPS Superconductor cable with Banana plug to female XLR adapter.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jlbrach said:


> I have had 3 versions of the 1266 and never had an issue with the band....lucky I guess although I am really careful



I've owned 2 versions (Phi and Phi TC) and like you, never had any issues.


----------



## yagislav (May 14, 2020)

Just want to mention that I never hung my TC's at all on ANY stand and this happened =\

@Abyss Headphones I have sent you an email thank you


----------



## Roasty

I have a feeling that it storage conditions in the shop or in the house may play a part in this.. Rubber can dry out and become "brittle".


----------



## attmci

I still suspect there is a batch of bad band.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Well, I am definitely worried now. I never put pressure on the band (unlike my profile picture I put it in a way that there is no pressure) but since I forgot to register my tc, no extended warranty for me.


----------



## Jon L

Roasty said:


> I have a feeling that it storage conditions in the shop or in the house may play a part in this.. Rubber can dry out and become "brittle".



I would think rubber becoming brittle over time is likely inevitable, just a matter of how fast.  
The Abyss rubber band breaking is probably a combination of rubber quality (likely batch variations), storage conditions, stitching variations at the headband hole, combined with the fact the heavy Abyss is supported mostly by the headband/rubber due to the earpads needing to almost float for better bass.  On top of all this, if Abyss spends significant amount of time hanging by the band on headphone stand, then things might happen.  I just hope Abyss rubber band is covered under warranty.  

P.S.  I never received a reply/receipt when I filled out the extended warranty form when I bought the Abyss, and I never got a reply for confirmation when I emailed Abyss directly later, so this worries me.   

P.S. 2.  I attach mousepad cutouts with double-sided tape to Woo stand and hang all my headphones, including Abyss, by their strong frame, never the headband.




0428201133_HDR by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## Ciggavelli

I’ve been hanging my TCs from the band on my Woo Audio stand since I got them. No problems (yet...)

I live in humid a$$ Houston though, so maybe that’s why. They haven’t had a chance to get brittle...maybe


----------



## ken6217

I got my TC the beginning of December 2019 and I suspend the headphones by the band on the stand and I have zero issue.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

A quick fix is Super Glue, cyanoacrylate. One drop, carefully butt ends together and hold still for about 30 seconds (don't glue your fingers. 
Give it an hour or so, suggest to turn the ring so the glued section is centered under the leather, and reinstall. You need to make sure the ends align perfectly while holding for max strength, only get one shot at it.


----------



## astrostar59

ken6217 said:


> Saw this in another forum. This for all of us that own this amp and TC combo.
> 
> Enter the Abyss TC planar magnetic headphone. This has the bass and creamy mids of the LCD4, but crucially the faster treble of the very best electrostatics, and the biggest soundstage I have ever heard on any headphone, even beyond the soundstage king - the Sennheiser HD800/820.
> 
> Here it is being powered off the back of the Moon 600i 125W integrated, which equates to about 12W at 33ohms for the Abyss impedance load. It sound marvellous.


My photo, my system. The Moon 600i works great on the Abyss, and is also a nice speaker amp. But the ultimate headphone AND speaker amp is the Aries Cerat Genus SET 25W tube amp. No contest. I am doing a super deal on the Genus at the moment, and sale or return if your socks are not blown off. PM me for details....


----------



## tholt

I started this wild ride buying a used pair of OGs. It came with two headbands. The top one is slightly physically smaller length-wise and the O rings are thinner. I can't move these O rings within the slot, they're sewed in tight. The bottom one has much thicker O rings which I can slide through the slot. These both came with the same OG headphone, so I don't know what to make of it, other than the headbands are definitely different. Obviously the thicker O rings instill greater confidence. I believe I watched a video review of the Phis which mentioned one could order the headband in different sizes at the time? Like S/M/L? But I don't think that is the case now. FWIW


----------



## Hoegaardener70

tholt said:


> I started this wild ride buying a used pair of OGs. It came with two headbands. The top one is slightly physically smaller length-wise and the O rings are thinner. I can't move these O rings within the slot, they're sewed in tight. The bottom one has much thicker O rings which I can slide through the slot. These both came with the same OG headphone, so I don't know what to make of it, other than the headbands are definitely different. Obviously the thicker O rings instill greater confidence. I believe I watched a video review of the Phis which mentioned one could order the headband in different sizes at the time? Like S/M/L? But I don't think that is the case now. FWIW




Interesting. Mine is similar to the top - the more fragile - one. Bought mine August last year.


----------



## tholt

The thing with the O rings for me, is that due to the design where half the O ring is stretched up and through the U shaped piece, the entire weight of the headphone is hanging by the other half of the O ring -- the part extending from the U piece through the headband. I think it's a sheer weight/physics issue.


----------



## supervisor

for any electronic music fan Abyss-owners: https://tidal.com/browse/album/137594423

a real treat


----------



## ahossam

I always put foam pad between the frame and the head band when hanging the TC by the band on Woo Audio headphone stand.


----------



## Litlgi74

supervisor said:


> for any electronic music fan Abyss-owners: https://tidal.com/browse/album/137594423
> 
> a real treat


Binaural recording!!!! Awesome


----------



## tholt

Any fans of Paramore, or interested in above average and well recorded alt/indie rock, check out https://listen.tidal.com/album/139680395


----------



## ekfc63

So for those that have experienced broken O rings where has the break occurred?  Just wondering if periodically rotating the ring so that it spreads the wear would prolong its life.


----------



## Marco_tam

ekfc63 said:


> So for those that have experienced broken O rings where has the break occurred?  Just wondering if periodically rotating the ring so that it spreads the wear would prolong its life.



Mine snapped at the point where the rubber band hangs onto the "stand" of both sides. I guess it's the constant movement of the headband while it's hanging on my head that broke it.

For those of you who are having the same problem with the headband, if it's still under warranty, I suggest you contact Abyss right away. Sometimes all you need to do is just ask.😉

Thanks @Abyss Headphones for taking good care of your customers as always. Absolutely fantastic!


----------



## GU1DO (May 19, 2020)

attmci said:


> I still suspect there is a batch of bad band.


Dont think so , its just a bad design , mine is OG and the O ring snapped also , because of age or dry condition ,
i would never pay 250$ for a peace of rubber so i did a home fix , ugly but it works


----------



## CreditingKarma

GU1DO said:


> Dont think so , its just a bad design , mine is OG and the O ring snapped also , because of age or dry condition ,
> i would never pay 250$ for a peace of rubber so i did a home fix , ugly but it works



It is $150 for a new headband.


----------



## GU1DO

CreditingKarma said:


> It is $150 for a new headband.


Sorry 150$ had the same emotional effect on me as the 250$ last time i checked so 250 stuck in my mind  
i only need the rubber ring , headband is perfectly look new , so 150 is just crazy for 2 peaces of rubber.


----------



## ken6217

GU1DO said:


> Dont think so , its just a bad design , mine is OG and the O ring snapped also , because of age or dry condition ,
> i would never pay 250$ for a peace of rubber so i did a home fix , ugly but it works



It can’t be a bad design if they don’t all break. No one knows what the percent is unless a poll istaken of all owners. People usually post when they have a problem, not when they don’t have a problem. You’re not gonna get somebody to post out of nowhere saying, hey I have a headphone band and it didn’t break.

In addition, I think it’s safe to say from reading comments here that a lot of people don’t just place the headphones on their head and call it a day. They play around with it trying to figure out the best positioning, and most likely those rubber rings are not made to be stretched, pulled, twisted, etc.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (May 19, 2020)

CreditingKarma said:


> It is $150 for a new headband.



still a lot of money.


ken6217 said:


> It can’t be a bad design if they don’t all break. No one knows what the percent is unless a poll istaken of all owners. People usually post when they have a problem, not when they don’t have a problem. You’re not gonna get somebody to post out of nowhere saying, hey I have a headphone band and it didn’t break.
> 
> In addition, I think it’s safe to say from reading comments here that a lot of people don’t just place the headphones on their head and call it a day. They play around with it trying to figure out the best positioning, and most likely those rubber rings are not made to be stretched, pulled, twisted, etc.



Well, headphones at this price point must be built for longevity. And a rubber ring at this pricepoint is not a good design decision. At least do neither focal nor stax use rubber rings as part of their design. Or any other part which breaks because of normal wear and tear over the years.
What it comes down to is what abyss makes of this now.


----------



## SteveM324

Hoegaardener70 said:


> still a lot of money.
> 
> 
> Well, headphones at this price point must be built for longevity. And a rubber ring at this pricepoint is not a good design decision. At least do neither focal nor stax use rubber rings as part of their design. Or any other part which breaks because of normal wear and tear over the years.
> What it comes down to is what abyss makes of this now.


I don't own an Abyss but I have considered buying a TC.  I'm an engineering specialist in the automotive industry and I specialize in attachments (mainly fasteners but also clips, clamps,o-rings, etc).  O-rings are designed to seal joints, they're not designed to stretch and suspend a load.  I think a simple fix would be to use elastic.  Rather than spend a $150 for a new headband, I would get some black elastic that girls use for hair ties, cut it to the length desired, and get some crimps and a crimping tool to crimp the ends together.  You can even use a little bit of glue inside the crimp before crimping.  The crimping tool would be the most expensive piece of the fix but it won't cost $150.  You can buy elastic on-line or at an arts and crafts store. I think elastic would last longer than rubber o-rings for how Abyss is using them.  Just my 2 cents.


----------



## ahossam

I dont mind if they put headband and they might break, the problem is the replacement headband is too expensive.


----------



## ken6217

Hoegaardener70 said:


> still a lot of money.
> 
> 
> Well, headphones at this price point must be built for longevity. And a rubber ring at this pricepoint is not a good design decision. At least do neither focal nor stax use rubber rings as part of their design. Or any other part which breaks because of normal wear and tear over the years.
> What it comes down to is what abyss makes of this now.



Those headphones don’t have the adjustability as Abyss to change the sound and so there’s no reason to play with them. Obviously the design is different, and there’s a reason for that.

As I mentioned above, no one knows what % breaks without taking a poll of all users. Like anything else, you’re only going to hear from the people who had them break, and not the ones that don’t. Also go through the thread and look T all of the users that have found creative ways to screw around with the band to get a personalized fit. Velcro and zip ties to name a couple. With most companies altering or misusing a product would make any claim invalid.

I’ve had my 1266 since the first week of December. That’s going on 6 months. I listen to them multiple times a day, and hang them on the stand suspended by the headband. No broken rings.


----------



## ekfc63 (May 19, 2020)

An alternative would be to redesign the headband so that the "O" ring is not captive.  This would prevent wasting a perfectly good headband and facilitate cheap and easy "O" ring replacement.

I've had my TCs since October 2019 with no "O" ring problems so far.  If and when one snaps I'll be giving superglue a try.


----------



## ken6217

ekfc63 said:


> An alternative would be to redesign the headband so that the "O" ring is not captive.  This would prevent wasting a perfectly good headband and facilitate cheap and easy "O" ring replacement.



actually that would be a good idea. Instead of having it stitched, maybe a snap. This way if the O ring breaks, just unsnap it and buy a spare O ring.


----------



## tholt

Seems to me its enough of an issue to enough people that Abyss should take notice and address it. We have a right to be more critical of a $5k headphone than something less expensive. And the O ring is what, a few cents worth of part? And it plays an absolutely critical role in the overall design. I'm with @SteveM324 re: O rings meant to be seals, not 'rubber bands'. That is their intended purpose.



ekfc63 said:


> An alternative would be to redesign the headband so that the "O" ring is not captive. This would prevent wasting a perfectly good headband and facilitate cheap and easy "O" ring replacement.



I think at the very least, this is a great idea. Having us have no alternative except DIY or buy a new headband because an O ring breaks is a little tough to swallow.


----------



## ken6217

Obviously no one knows what someone else is doing when using their headphones, but I find it very hard to believe that taking the headphone and placing on your head and not effing around with it is going to break and O-ring.


----------



## zenworm

Have about 10 hours so far on my brand new TC and have buzzing of left driver (only left, right is fine) on certain bass frequencies. Shows up in electronic/rap, songs like Fantasy by the xx at the 1:20 mark. Here's a video where you can hear the buzzing pretty clearly: 

It's more pronounced if the left cup is farther away from my ear, but still there if it's close. I'm working with Joe on this right now and his recommendation was to continue the burn-in but wanted to see if anyone had seen (well, heard) anything like this before.


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> Obviously no one knows what someone else is doing when using their headphones, but I find it very hard to believe that taking the headphone and placing on your head and not effing around with it is going to break and O-ring.



 You're saying that people shouldn't play around with fit and adjustment?


----------



## ken6217 (May 19, 2020)

tholt said:


> You're saying that people shouldn't play around with fit and adjustment?



That’s not what I’m saying. There’s adjusting the position of the headphone, and then there’s  screwing around with it. Twisting the O-ring and doubling it up, using zip ties, using Velcro is screwing around with it. Go back through the thread and see how many people have their own tricks of how they adjust it.

I mean think about it. You’re an O-ring that is rather thick, holding a headband on with not really that much tension, and then you place it on your head. How would that break under such circumstances? It would have to have a cut or nick  in it to begin with for that to happen.


----------



## F208Frank (May 19, 2020)

I do not think people should worry too much yet. Though the headband is perhaps bad in terms of longevity design, I am pretty sure Abyss chose the design for sonic/adjustment purposes at the time. You can tell in their videos they put much thought into every aspect of the headphone. Sometimes things are overlooked and slipped through my guys.

Some members have reported that Abyss replaced (not sure if free of charge) when asked when the headband has broken.

To be honest, if Abyss chose not to replace when it is a known issue, they would he only hurting themselves long term and I do not really see them taking that stance.

If someone has a head band breaking via O ring and when asking for replacement to get denied, then people should worry.

Just my 2 cents on tuesday while still in bed @ 2:15PM eastern time. Lol.


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> That’s not what I’m saying. There’s adjusting the position of the headphone, and then there’s screwing around with it. Twisting the O-ring and doubling it up, using zip ties, using Velcro is screwing around with it. Go back through the thread and see how many people have their own tricks of how they adjust it.


No need, I know what people have done. And that's another discussion as to why people have done that. But from what I'm reading lately, nobody has been 'effing' with theirs.


----------



## ken6217

tholt said:


> No need, I know what people have done. And that's another discussion as to why people have done that. But from what I'm reading lately, nobody has been 'effing' with theirs.



I don’t think you would. Generally it’s a bad practice to post something like, “You’re not gonna believe what happened I twisted the hell of my O-ring and It broke.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (May 19, 2020)

ken6217 said:


> I don’t think you would. Generally it’s a bad practice to post something like, “You’re not gonna believe what happened I twisted the hell of my O-ring and It broke.
> [/QUOTE



i really don’t get your attitude. Some posters have their o-ring broken, some mention it is a bit of a design flaw. You seem on a personal whatever quest to comment on anybody stating the ring could be a problem, including an engineer.


----------



## koven

Buzzing drivers, 'sleeping' drivers, headband snaps.. and here I thought Hifiman was suppose to be the bad QC child...  Kidding...


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> I mean think about it. You’re an O-ring that is rather thick, holding a headband on with not really that much tension, and then you place it on your head. How would that break under such circumstances? It would have to have a cut or nick in it to begin with for that to happen.



Over time I could see it breaking. It's not the intended purpose of an O ring to hold 1.4 lbs of headphone free-floating. You also might try asking all the people who have reported their O rings breaking under normal usage. I doubt they would have an answer, yet it happened anyway.

Obviously many owners, myself included, have never had an issue. I've just seen too many posters that have experienced breakage, allegedly under normal usage, that merit alternatives being explored. All I'm sayin


----------



## tholt

Another fun find: https://listen.tidal.com/album/132767611

I'm not really into jazz, but this is a fun, fun album that is also technical, innovative and awesome through headphones.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Guys, I know some of you are bored out of your goddam minds, but you're blowing this WAY out of proportion. 

Just for sh.ts and giggles, I pulled up how many headbands we sold worldwide in 2019, this of course covers over 5 years of AB-1266 in the field. 
We shipped a whopping 19 pcs last year! 

We send replacements outside the standard warranty period for $149 via UPS overnight anywhere in the world (Europe is a bit more due to their taxes, etc.). Reason for the quick [costly] shipping... we don't want anyone to be out of service for any length of time. This level of service gets the headband anywhere in the world in 1-3 days, quickest possible way. If someone wants to save a few bucks we can mail it, might get there in a month or so, if at all. And when it doesn't arrive, guess who gets to hear about it?

We don't have a poor design, we don't have a problem, just that sometimes... sh.t happens!

On another note, we FINALLY were able to return to work today in our area of New York. Fortunately, we're in a relatively large and modern building with four separate HVAC systems, and LOTS of cubic feet of air.


----------



## ken6217 (May 19, 2020)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> i really don’t get your attitude. Some posters have their o-ring broken, some mention it is a bit of a design flaw. You seem on a personal whatever quest to comment on anybody stating the ring could be a problem, including an engineer.



It’s not a personal quest, and it’s all the same subject from each person. I’m making my comments based on what I’ve seen here and in the past.

I don’t see it as a design flaw when I look at my headband. tell me how that band can break if when you get it it is in perfect condition with no nicks or cuts. There’s really no pressure tension on it when it sits on your head.

Since none of us really know the answer, I think it’s perfectly logical to take a poll of all people with the headphones and see how many people have issues and how many don’t, and not just hear from the handful that say theirs broke. 

Also factor in the amount of people on here that have come up with her own homegrown tweaks to play around with theadband to make it fit them.

I ride motorcycles, and do performance work on my bike as many of my friends. We also have a higher incidence of engine issues because we’re screwing around with it to try to get more out of it. We all know that doing so also voids our warranty, but that’s our choice.


----------



## Roasty

I had to turn my headband one round to get more tension on the o-rings because the headphone would sit too low and the earpads would press on the top of my ears.

After it snapped, the new headband I ordered got delivered really fast, and the new o-rings were nice and taut and I didn't need to turn the headband at all, and it sat nicely without the pads it resting on my ears. 

Anyhow, this is my new favourite song! Check it out. 

https://tidal.com/track/128797238


----------



## drew911d

My O-rings broke while sitting and watching netflix.  But, I live in Arizona and I've had mine for 2.5 years.  The zip ties are working great for me.  Since I'm the only one who uses these I no longer need the adjustability.

I'm not mad, probably a bit crazy though...


----------



## yagislav

Hey guys, to give some insight on my o ring breakage last week (I posted pictures a few pages back), I actually have never flipped the headband or twisted it or did any modification. The headphone was only two weeks old. I did play around with the fit by changing the width, and of course toe-ing in/out, but this is all part of the recommendations. I never hung the headphones on a stand (I just place them on a cloth). Still snapped in a two week time frame.

HOWEVER with all this being said, I contacted Joe directly and he sorted the issue for me within a day. These guys over at Abyss are the real deal, customer service is immaculate. UPS should have delivered the package the next business day but that has been delayed due to covid pandemic and is not the fault of Abyss by any means. I would not lose any faith at all in Abyss, they make the best headphones in the world in my opinion and their customer service is on par.


----------



## Marco_tam

The only "tweak" I had before the O ring broke was putting a ZMF Pad around it and that's all.

I'm glad @Joe Skubinski did not put this on us customers saying we did this to ourselves but rather took up the responsibility and shipped out a new one the same day I emailed them and the best part is they did not charge me at all under warranty period.  

So @ken6217, like Joe said, sometimes sh.t happens and it's just nobody's fault.


----------



## GU1DO

Same here tbh i bought mine new OG version and i guess it was setting in the store for at least 2 years , out of the box it was already stretched and didn't take long time to break , because the dealer in my country is no longer an abyss dealer i got screwed though mine is new from an authorized dealer so C'est La Vie


----------



## Focux

GU1DO said:


> Same here tbh i bought mine new OG version and i guess it was setting in the store for at least 2 years , out of the box it was already stretched and didn't take long time to break , because the dealer in my country is no longer an abyss dealer i got screwed though mine is new from an authorized dealer so C'est La Vie



how do u find the OG 1266 holding up today compared to it's other totl peers? 

does the phi or even phi tc make a substantial difference?

i have the impression that even the 1266 gets you very far ahead already


----------



## GU1DO (May 20, 2020)

Focux said:


> how do u find the OG 1266 holding up today compared to it's other totl peers?
> 
> does the phi or even phi tc make a substantial difference?
> 
> i have the impression that even the 1266 gets you very far ahead already


Oh they are amazing, the most capable headphone i have ever tried , heavy complex music only the 1266 can play it with ease and authority and i would say in confidence it can compete with any speaker and could be a substitute easily, i tried the Diana Phi Last year and it was a downgrade, yes it had better resolution and details but that's it everything else was worse , i see some people say it is 90% of the 1266 phi so i lost any interest to upgrade , some members said to me to comfort me that i already have a special edition (Abyss rejected my request to upgrade to the Phi and the TC though mine was bought near the announcement time and i was already given a date to send mine for upgrade,  my plan was to upgrade it before hearing the Diana phi ) and i thank god that Joe rejected my application, for that i would never recommend Abyss store to anybody just because of the way i was treated last year , buy from second hand or try to find it for much less than the MSRP which is possible if you know a good dealer.


----------



## joseph69

SteveM324 said:


> O-rings are designed to seal joints, they're not designed to stretch and suspend a load. I think a simple fix would be to use elastic.


You took the words right out of my mouth.
I was finally going to post this tonight after continuously reading about the O-rings breaking. 
Thanks.


----------



## phase0 (May 21, 2020)

The Uh-O-rings?
Edit: The Oh-nO-Rings?


----------



## koven




----------



## ken6217

koven said:


>




Thank God the O Ring didn't break.


----------



## koven

ken6217 said:


> Thank God the O Ring didn't break.



Lol..


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> Thank God the O Ring didn't break.


That will be the next test, to see if the O rings can support the weight of the jeep


----------



## tholt

I love how they're giving away those headphones. I mean that's cool I guess, but does it still come with warranty??


----------



## jlbrach (May 22, 2020)

you can run over it and the drivers are intact but what if you just dropped it on the floor lol? I have had 3 versions of this wonderful HP and baby each one ...the video makes me laugh because I treat mine with such kid gloves always afraid of the slightest little bump or drop.....I have mine on my head listening to music as I write this!


----------



## lambdastorm

jlbrach said:


> you can run over it and the drivers are intact but what if you just dropped it on the floor lol? I have had 3 versions of this wonderful HP and baby each one ...the video makes me laugh because I treat mine with such kid gloves always afraid of the slightest little bump or drop.....I have mine on my head listening to music as I write this!


As much as I love my pair, I think dropping them would shake the internals up a lot more than running over them with pretty much anything. I've heard early abyss owners dropping their abyss and disconnecting the internal wiring in the process.


----------



## lambdastorm

My 2 cents on the O ring. I have two sets of headband right now, one with a broken O ring on the left side. The new one has lasted me 2 years now, I wonder how much longer they will last. I guess the nasty thing about these O rings is that they aren't really user interchangeable. To seal the rubber inside the headband you must send them back. The current design is fine, but it would be better if there's a viable alternative.


----------



## Sage Encore

I have had my CC for about a year and half. My o-ring broke after about 6 months and the leather started to peel after about a year or so. The way the leather is glued is also quiet bad. If you don’t hold it properly while removing the ear pads you will most probably rip the ring and the leather apart. Be careful guys. Going to get replacement for my ear pads but the o-ring is way too rich for me at $150. No way I’m going to pay that for rubber.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

I am very pleased to announce that the Fiio M15 is capable to drive the ab-1266 TC, and that remarkably well with great clarity, soundstage and oomph! No more barriers to enjoy the abyss on the go (if one choses to do so). Really incredible for a DAP.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I am very pleased to announce that the Fiio M15 is capable to drive the ab-1266 TC, and that remarkably well with great clarity, soundstage and oomph! No more barriers to enjoy the abyss on the go (if one choses to do so). Really incredible for a DAP.




I would think that the Khan cube would be able to drive them as well if not better it puts out a lot of power. I am not sure that even the cube can drive them optimally. My sp1000 will get them to a reasonable level but the sound quality is not close to.that of a great desktop amp. 

I hope to try the m15 sometime.


----------



## jlbrach

I would suggest if one is going to own an abyss TC he or she should use a proper desktop amp....the abyss tc is not a portable HP....


----------



## CreditingKarma

jlbrach said:


> I would suggest if one is going to own an abyss TC he or she should use a proper desktop amp....the abyss tc is not a portable HP....



That is why I have the noble Khan too it will do u till the abyss iem.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

jlbrach said:


> I would suggest if one is going to own an abyss TC he or she should use a proper desktop amp....the abyss tc is not a portable HP....



Yes, no doubt about that. Still, I thought it’s a ‘nice to know’ for m15 owners and anybody wanting to try the abyss without investing into the amp infrastructure first.


----------



## mat.1

anyone using Hugo TT2 with JPS Super Conductor for 1266 ?
How is the sound ?
Or better to save money for WA33 ?


----------



## attmci

By comparing a cc and an old non-cc AB-1266 pad, you can see the new pad is notched rather than slotted. The new pad is glued to the magnetic ring. When you adjust the pad, you should pull the magnetic ring instead of the lambskin pad.I also noticed the _glue lose_ in _strength after 1-2 years._

I am not a big fan of the rotating pad.I believe everyone ends up at a similar position. Just my 2c.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

attmci said:


> By comparing a cc and an old non-cc AB-1266 pad, you can see the new pad is notched rather than slotted. The new pad is glued to the magnetic ring. When you adjust the pad, you should pull the magnetic ring instead of the lambskin pad.I also noticed the _glue lose_ in _strength after 1-2 years._
> 
> I am not a big fan of the rotating pad.I believe everyone ends up at a similar position. Just my 2c.



I can confirm the glue issue. I always pulled the ring instead of the pad, but still - after 11 months - it opens up at one point since the glue is not that strong at that position.


----------



## attmci

tholt said:


> Well, this just happened tonight. The leather had been working itself out for a little bit over a period of about a month, I was gently trying to tuck it back in but was getting annoyed -- and it kept working itself out again. This is not even rotating them, they have been on the headphone untouched. Tonight it just completely fell apart. It's pretty much unusable at this point. The more I try to fix it, the worse it gets.
> 
> I emailed Abyss, hopefully they can help out with something. I doubt this is under warranty, but man, the thought of paying $400 for a replacement set for the same kind of quality doesn't sit right.


This is a good example of the BAD design.


----------



## attmci

kimdaeim said:


> These pictures are  ab-1266 with a new pad that designed to ease the pain due to the rubber band.


Nice. Except the color.


----------



## F208Frank

For some reason I can imagine Joe seeing that and saying out loud in the Joe tone "that's god damn hideous if you ask me" then chuckles.

Haha. Been enjoying his YouTube vids.


----------



## Roasty

attmci said:


> Nice. Except the color.



That would look pretty nice in black!


----------



## ahossam

Comfort wise to me Abyss 1266 headband is very comfortable I don't have any complaints at all, don't feel any point of pressure on my head. But I do worry about the headband durability over times and its cost you pretty penny to get new headband so I put extra care and hope it will last for a very long time.


----------



## mat.1

ahossam said:


> Comfort wise to me Abyss 1266 headband is very comfortable I don't have any complaints at all, don't feel any point of pressure on my head. But I do worry about the headband durability over times and its cost you pretty penny to get new headband so I put extra care and hope it will last for a very long time.


How is the sound with WA5 ? thx


----------



## ahossam

mat.1 said:


> How is the sound with WA5 ? thx



I am no good to write impression but you can find plenty in this thread from other members if you search them, but definitely WA5 is a good amp to start with AB 1266 it has plenty of power.


----------



## mat.1

ahossam said:


> I am no good to write impression but you can find plenty in this thread from other members if you search them, but definitely WA5 is a good amp to start with AB 1266 it has plenty of power.


Thanks


----------



## GU1DO (May 25, 2020)

tholt said:


> Well, this just happened tonight. The leather had been working itself out for a little bit over a period of about a month, I was gently trying to tuck it back in but was getting annoyed -- and it kept working itself out again. This is not even rotating them, they have been on the headphone untouched. Tonight it just completely fell apart. It's pretty much unusable at this point. The more I try to fix it, the worse it gets.
> 
> I emailed Abyss, hopefully they can help out with something. I doubt this is under warranty, but man, the thought of paying $400 for a replacement set for the same kind of quality doesn't sit right.


The prices of accessories in Abyss store should be slashed to the half , shipping fast is not an excuse for ripping users who are not under warranty , i have more than 30-40 pads , the most expensive one is around 100 which is as good as Abyss pads if not better


----------



## Roasty

Speaking of warranty, I didn't get the extended warranty approved. Applied about 4 months out of the window. Oh well..

Still have to send in my headphones to check out the driver on the right. Just hope that it doesn't fail again after a year of ownership.


----------



## CreditingKarma

GU1DO said:


> The prices of accessories in Abyss store should be slashed to the half , shipping fast is not an excuse for ripping users who are not under warranty , i have more than 30-40 pads , the most expensive one is around 100 which is as good as Abyss pads if not better



The utopia pads are $200 so there are expensive pads out there from other companies as well.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

CreditingKarma said:


> The utopia pads are $200 so there are expensive pads out there from other companies as well.



The Utopia pads are beautiful and have stitches, and no glue. I find glue in a premium product a no-go.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Hoegaardener70 said:


> The Utopia pads are beautiful and have stitches, and no glue. I find glue in a premium product a no-go.



Audeze actually glued their pads to.the headphone. If you don't want to buy new pads for the abyss you could use dekoni pads on the rings from the abyss.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

CreditingKarma said:


> Audeze actually glued their pads to.the headphone.



Well, Audeze's build quality is also the reason why I'd never buy one, no matter how good they might sound, 

Gllueing a differently shaped pad to the magnetic rings? I don't think that would work. ...


----------



## GU1DO

CreditingKarma said:


> The utopia pads are $200 so there are expensive pads out there from other companies as well.


200 not 400 !


----------



## jlbrach

ahossam said:


> Comfort wise to me Abyss 1266 headband is very comfortable I don't have any complaints at all, don't feel any point of pressure on my head. But I do worry about the headband durability over times and its cost you pretty penny to get new headband so I put extra care and hope it will last for a very long time.


I have owned 3 iterations of the 1266 asnd am very careful with my equipment and have never had an issue with the headband


----------



## llamaluv

CreditingKarma said:


> That is why I have the noble Khan too it will do u till the abyss iem.


OMG, I would lo-o-ve to see what an Abyss IEM would look like. Or how it would fit. <Shudders>


----------



## ekfc63

Quick question for 1266TC owners that also use IEMs.  I'm in the market for IEMs and am looking for recommendations ideally in the $500-$1,000 range that have a similar sound signature to the 1266TCs and can stand a comparison without too much disappointment.  They would likely be driven off a portable dac/amp at the office.


----------



## tholt

llamaluv said:


> OMG, I would lo-o-ve to see what an Abyss IEM would look like. Or how it would fit. <Shudders>



🤣


----------



## MacedonianHero

Hoegaardener70 said:


> The Utopia pads are beautiful and have stitches, and no glue. I find glue in a premium product a no-go.



You should see the Stax ear-pad prices!


----------



## MacedonianHero

NVM


----------



## phase0 (May 25, 2020)

MacedonianHero said:


> You should see the Stax ear-pad prices!



$180, $155, $130, $120 ... from staxaudio . com ... $395 is still quite a lot to ask IMO. I did buy them when they first came out, and yes I think it was an improvement both in comfort and sound quality. It still feels like a bitter pill. I guess that's the cost of playing in the high end. Right now I don't think team Abyss have too much to worry as they're the top dog. Do you want it or not? But they can't stop researching and innovating or someone else will eventually show up and match it or get close enough for cheaper...


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (May 26, 2020)

Roasty said:


> It's gotten worse today. Right driver sound cut out several times during play. Only returns on raising volume high. Will be sending it in to the dealer for them to have to checked out.
> 
> Oh well, looks like my other headphones will get some play time for a while.
> 
> By the way, did u guys register for the extended 3 year warranty? I didn't know it existed, and I missed the 90 day from purchase date time limit to apply for it.



I would like to bring up the same issue Roasty did a while ago ... I hope Joe can respond. One thing about the warranty - I got my ab-1266 last summer and registered but never received a confirmation. But anyway, here is what concerns me:

I had exactly the same issue as Roasty when I got my brand new Abyss ... some sort of distortion in the right driver, when raising the volume the driver “kicked back in”. Some weeks later, this happened more often, and in two instances the driver did not work at all. It kicked back in after some hours of not doing anything. I mailed Abyss and they could not pin down the issue (or did I describe it badly) but asked me to send it in. Which I did and I received it back after some weeks. Joe said he found nothing but the redid the connections anyway.

Since then, the issue is much better, but it still occurs - but luckily so far rarely. I appreciate that Abyss took care of it (kind of) but I am concerned in case this gets worse again since my warranty has not been extended.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

ekfc63 said:


> Quick question for 1266TC owners that also use IEMs.  I'm in the market for IEMs and am looking for recommendations *ideally in the $500-$1,000* range that have *a similar sound signature to the 1266TCs* and *can stand a comparison without too much disappointment*.  They would likely be driven off a portable dac/amp at the office.



if only such thing exist   

My take is your best bet would we audeze isine20 (open back planar iem). It's open though, so sound leak (inside/outside) does happen.


----------



## drew911d

Occassionally the Noble Kaiser universal is on massdrop for under $1k.  I have the custom which I like.  It's not as refined as Abyss, but a good travel companion.



TheMiddleSky said:


> if only such thing exist
> 
> My take is your best bet would we audeze isine20 (open back planar iem). It's open though, so sound leak (inside/outside) does happen.


----------



## CreditingKarma

TheMiddleSky said:


> if only such thing exist
> 
> My take is your best bet would we audeze isine20 (open back planar iem). It's open though, so sound leak (inside/outside) does happen.



Fot me the noble Khan is the closest tight now.


----------



## MaggotBrain

ekfc63 said:


> Quick question for 1266TC owners that also use IEMs.  I'm in the market for IEMs and am looking for recommendations ideally in the $500-$1,000 range that have a similar sound signature to the 1266TCs and can stand a comparison without too much disappointment.  They would likely be driven off a portable dac/amp at the office.



If it’s the bass slam from the Abyss you are after at $550, check out the Campfire Audio Polaris 2.  Really fun IEMs. Not an Abyss but is much more pocket (and wallet) friendly.


----------



## Roasty (May 26, 2020)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I would like to bring up the same issue Roasty did a while ago ... I hope Joe can respond. One thing about the warranty - I got my ab-1266 last summer and registered but never received a confirmation. But anyway, here is what concerns me:
> 
> I had exactly the same issue as Roasty when I got my brand new Abyss ... some sort of distortion in the right driver, when raising the volume the driver “kicked back in”. Some weeks later, this happened more often, and in two instances the driver did not work at all. It kicked back in after some hours of not doing anything. I mailed Abyss and they could not pin down the issue (or did I describe it badly) but asked me to send it in. Which I did and I received it back after some weeks. Joe said he found nothing but the redid the connections anyway.
> 
> Since then, the issue is much better, but it still occurs - but luckily so far rarely. I appreciate that Abyss took care of it (kind of) but I am concerned in case this gets worse again since my warranty has not been extended.



Welcome to the club!
I wonder if the other guy experiencing the same problem managed to get his headphones sent to Abyss to get it checked out. 

So now there are 3 people with this issue with their right side driver. 

A bit worried now, since u said that you still have the problem albeit less frequent, despite having it checked out and having some fix performed. 

When I do manage to get it sent in and get it looked at (I assume the dealer is going to send it back to USA), I probably won't have much time left with remaining warranty after getting the headphones back, and just hope that the issue doesn't recur as it did with yours. 

Man I really wish my dealer had informed me to apply for the extended warranty when I bought my headphones. I don't really know why there is such a thing in the first place though.. U get a headphone with 1 Yr warranty, but it goes to 3 years only if u apply within 3 months. Couldn't they have given 3 years straight up? 

Im checking warranty for my other headphones, and its 2 years for Empy, 5 for Utopia, and lifetime for ZMF (drivers).


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Roasty said:


> When I do manage to get it sent in and get it looked at (I assume the dealer is going to send it back to USA), I probably won't have much time left with remaining warranty after getting the headphones back, and just hope that the issue doesn't recur as it did with yours.
> 
> Man I really wish my dealer had informed me to apply for the extended warranty when I bought my headphones. I don't really know why there is such a thing in the first place though.. U get a headphone with 1 Yr warranty, but it goes to 3 years only if u apply within 3 months. Couldn't they have given 3 years straight up?
> 
> Im checking warranty for my other headphones, and its 2 years for Empy, 5 for Utopia, and lifetime for ZMF (drivers).



+1 on then warranty issue. I did register but I am not aware if this went through or not.

Regarding the driver, I can at least comfort you a bit - before it was a very real problem like in your case, but since the fix it only happened twice in a couple of months. So, for the moment I see it as a non-issue. Nevertheless, it would be very helpful by Abyss to indicate they would fix the problem in the future in case it occurs again, warranty or not.


----------



## phase0 (May 26, 2020)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> +1 on then warranty issue. I did register but I am not aware if this went through or not.



Maybe it's just me (I did get the warranty confirmation)... Had I not received confirmation, I would have reached out and asked for it immediately. [If] I just spent $5k on a new toy. I'd want confirmation that it's covered.

It sucks to hear some folks have some issues. I've met Joe and the team at Canjam and they seem like really awesome guys so I hope they take good care of the folks. I'm sure we'll hear about if if they don't


----------



## Hoegaardener70

phase0 said:


> Maybe it's just me (I did get the warranty confirmation)... Had I not received confirmation, I would have reached out and asked for it immediately. [If] I just spent $5k on a new toy. I'd want confirmation that it's covered.
> 
> It sucks to hear some folks have some issues. I've met Joe and the team at Canjam and they seem like really awesome guys so I hope they take good care of the folks. I'm sure we'll hear about if if they don't



I have no doubt that Joe is an awesome and responsive person... 

However, congrats that you have time to follow up on all your open ends on processes done a couple of weeks before. Sometimes things just slip when too much is going on. Wouldn't happen now, I can promise you that


----------



## CreditingKarma

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I have no doubt that Joe is an awesome and responsive person...
> 
> However, congrats that you have time to follow up on all your open ends on processes done a couple of weeks before. Sometimes things just slip when too much is going on. Wouldn't happen now, I can promise you that




Just send an email to Joe to see if they processed the warranty request. I did and got a reply quickly. They are a small company with a lot of things going on.


----------



## Jon L

CreditingKarma said:


> Just send an email to Joe to see if they processed the warranty request. I did and got a reply quickly. They are a small company with a lot of things going on.


Well, that's why I haven't sent a second email (yet) to ask about my first email requesting confirmation for my extended warranty registration.


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> Couldn't they have given 3 years straight up?


+1



Hoegaardener70 said:


> So, for the moment I see it as a non-issue.


I see it as an intermittent issue.


----------



## Pastwa (May 27, 2020)

Roasty said:


> Couldn't they have given 3 years straight up?



They could if they had designed a more robust driver ;')


----------



## CreditingKarma

Pastwa said:


> They could if they had designed a more robust driver ;')




If you want to see a company with driver issues go check out the Audeze threads. I had the drivers fail on my 4z within 2 weeks of ownership.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

CreditingKarma said:


> If you want to see a company with driver issues go check out the Audeze threads. I had the drivers fail on my 4z within 2 weeks of ownership.



Haha, yes, and I would not advise to drive with a jeep over an Audeze frame


----------



## ahossam

Audeze is a very well known with their driver issues, their driver very easily break. I don't know if they have mitigating their driver issues or not.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Utopia drivers too.  I had one side fail on me when I had the Utopias.  If you look at the thread, they even have a vote with the number of people that had the left side fail.

Apparently driver issues are prevalent among high end headphones.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Ciggavelli said:


> Utopia drivers too.  I had one side fail on me when I had the Utopias.  If you look at the thread, they even have a vote with the number of people that had the left side fail.
> 
> Apparently driver issues are prevalent among high end headphones.



I had thought the Utopia driver issue was more of a thing at the beginning. Did you have one of the earlier ones? Sorry to hear anyway.


----------



## Ciggavelli (May 27, 2020)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I had thought the Utopia driver issue was more of a thing at the beginning. Did you have one of the earlier ones? Sorry to hear anyway.


Nah, I got them a couple of years ago (not at the beginning of production).  The dealer said he sees Utopias fail all the time.  Is that because more people are buying Utopias than other TOTL cans and therefore it's just a result of the large number of purchases, or does it mean that Utopias have a driver problem?   I dunno. 

Sidenote: I haven't had Utopias in a while and I don't miss them at all.  It's funny how the mainstream press feels that the Utopias are the best headphones you can buy, but within the HiFi community you rarely hear people say that (especially on here).  It seems that the people really into summit-fi think the TCs are the best headphones you can buy (me included).


----------



## ahossam

I have Focal Elear driver failed twice dead on one side.


----------



## ekfc63

Ciggavelli said:


> Sidenote: I haven't had Utopias in a while and I don't miss them at all.  It's funny how the mainstream press feels that the Utopias are the best headphones you can buy, but within the HiFi community you rarely hear people say that (especially on here).  It seems that the people really into summit-fi think the TCs are the best headphones you can buy (me included).



+1

I had Utopias.  They were good but nowhere near TCs


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ekfc63 said:


> +1
> 
> I had Utopias.  They were good but nowhere near TCs



Well, that’s why we have it


----------



## tholt

So, I'm really interested in taking the integrated amp plunge... using the binding posts directly out to the Abyss. I know many here are doing this and I've searched the thread for  the relevant info I can. I may have missed something too. But I guess what I want to know is, can pretty much any integrated be used, as long as you're careful with the usual caveats? (E.g. don't plug in/unplug while on, make sure the volume is at 0 when you turn it on, turn on source components first...?) Are there specs I should be aware of (and not cross)? Tubes and SS both ok? So many here use the Simaudio 600i which looks like a beast to me to use with headphones, but obviously it works. 

Your thoughts are truly appreciated so I can put this to bed. Ty in advance.


----------



## Sage Encore

TheMiddleSky said:


> if only such thing exist
> 
> My take is your best bet would we audeze isine20 (open back planar iem). It's open though, so sound leak (inside/outside) does happen.


Isine 20 with a PW 1960 4 wire comes very close, but the PW 1960 costs a bit too much. My customs are the Zeus14 with the PW1960 4 wire although a 2 wire might be a bit more liking to others.


----------



## Sage Encore

tholt said:


> So, I'm really interested in taking the integrated amp plunge... using the binding posts directly out to the Abyss. I know many here are doing this and I've searched the thread for  the relevant info I can. I may have missed something too. But I guess what I want to know is, can pretty much any integrated be used, as long as you're careful with the usual caveats? (E.g. don't plug in/unplug while on, make sure the volume is at 0 when you turn it on, turn on source components first...?) Are there specs I should be aware of (and not cross)? Tubes and SS both ok? So many here use the Simaudio 600i which looks like a beast to me to use with headphones, but obviously it works.
> 
> Your thoughts are truly appreciated so I can put this to bed. Ty in advance.


Hi,
I am using a SPEC V1, but the Simaudio 600i is highly recommended by a lot of users. I tried the SPEC and loved it almost tube like sound. Better to audit bro. You never know sometimes they just don't synergise. But I can tell you one thing though, the Abyss will be beast once you feed it power, lots of it. Just be careful with the abovementioned caveats.

As for tubes, I'm not too sure. Enjoy.


----------



## tholt

Sage Encore said:


> You never know sometimes they just don't synergise. But I can tell you one thing though, the Abyss will be beast once you feed it power, lots of it. Just be careful with the abovementioned caveats.
> 
> As for tubes, I'm not too sure. Enjoy.


I googled that amp. It looks nice! Class D from a boutique Japanese manufacturer, that was unexpected.

So no advice at all? I did a bit more research, I think I know some things to look for but would love to hear from those with experience. Trying to not blow up my headphones


----------



## ufospls2

I think that the main thing to keep in mind is that if you are using a* tube speaker amp*, you should use something like the Hifiman HE-Adapter. Now, I'm not sure *exactly* why that is. Something to do with the transformers and a stable load, but I'm honestly not sure. I'll let someone with more knowledge chime in on that issue. 

From what I know, as long as you are careful with the volume knob, and are aware of the overall gain and power the amp puts out, *Solid State Speaker Amps *should be ok. I have tried a few, and haven't had any troubles thus far.


----------



## Sage Encore

tholt said:


> I googled that amp. It looks nice! Class D from a boutique Japanese manufacturer, that was unexpected.
> 
> So no advice at all? I did a bit more research, I think I know some things to look for but would love to hear from those with experience. Trying to not blow up my headphones


Hi,
I did run my Abyss on a highly modified Little Dot amp. I was using 7236 and 6SL7 tubes. The amp is OTL fully balanced. It had loads of power and I do use it for my LCD 3f sometimes. The Modwright K200 I think is also quiet ok. If u are uncomfortable, better not go this route. Just need to be careful.


----------



## typalder

hey guys, i have a question: i run my abyss 1266 (47 ohms) direct from the speaker taps of my integrated mcintosh speaker amp. my question is: the mcintosh has 2,4 and 8 ohm speaker outputs. which one should i use? so far i`m using the 8 ohm but will there be a difference if i use the 2 or 4 ohm output? and is there any danger to the amp if i would do so? thanx very much and regards from germany, oliver


----------



## mat.1

typalder said:


> hey guys, i have a question: i run my abyss 1266 (47 ohms) direct from the speaker taps of my integrated mcintosh speaker amp. my question is: the mcintosh has 2,4 and 8 ohm speaker outputs. which one should i use? so far i`m using the 8 ohm but will there be a difference if i use the 2 or 4 ohm output? and is there any danger to the amp if i would do so? thanx very much and regards from germany, oliver


How is the Sound with mcintosh ? What adapter do you use ?


----------



## typalder

mat.1 said:


> How is the Sound with mcintosh ? What adapter do you use ?


sound is great, but still looking for even greater sound haha 

a guy who customises cables here in germany made me an 4 bananas to xlr adapter.


----------



## sfoclt

You should probably use the 8 ohm tap but it won’t hurt anything to use the others. My McIntosh amp has 4/8/16 and I use 16 (and a 50 ohm headphone). with good results. If you really wanted to experiment, you can try a 10r resister across the 8 ohm speaker terminals, which would make the 47 ohm load from your headphone look like an 8.2 ohm load. Use the calculator here to experiment with different values in parallel:

https://www.digikey.com/en/resource...rsion-calculator-parallel-and-series-resistor

My SIT-3 sounds best with an 8 ohm load so when I hook up headphones I use resisters to get the load closer to 8 ohms.This makes it more dynamic and punchy. With my McIntosh amp however, I found the 16 ohm taps perfectly fine without resorting to resisters.


----------



## ken6217

I’m about to list my Simaudio 600i V2 for sale if anyone is interested.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (May 31, 2020)

When I got my ab-1266 TC, I retired (=sold) my HD800S. In my memory, the Sennheiser performed in some areas nearly on par with the Abyss. I today got a new HD800S which I picked up during the sale. In direct comparison now with the Abyss well burnt in, the HD800S does not even come close.

The only difference is comfort, which I must say is a real strong point of the HD800S for me with the glasses I wear (no pressure at all). But at its price point, the HD800S is a total winner, if properly driven. Reaching to the levels of the abyss - no, not at all.


----------



## koven

Hoegaardener70 said:


> When I got my ab-1266 TC, I retired (=sold) my HD800S. In my memory, the Sennheiser performed in some areas nearly on par with the Abyss. I today got a new HD800S which I picked up during the sale. I must say, in direct comparison now with the Abyss well burned in, the HD800S does not even come close.
> 
> The only difference is comfort, which I must say is a real strong point of the HD800S for me with the glasses I wear (no pressure at all). But at its price point, the HD800S is a total winner, if properly driven. Reaching to the levels of the abyss - no, not at all.



So what you're saying is.. expect a like new HD800S in the for sale section soon? 

What amp are you using? HD800S is only listenable to me on tubes, SS pairings are not great..


----------



## ken6217

koven said:


> So what you're saying is.. expect a like new HD800S in the for sale section soon?
> 
> What amp are you using? HD800S is only listenable to me on tubes, SS pairings are not great..



No. What he's saying is that he has a bad memory.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

koven said:


> So what you're saying is.. expect a like new HD800S in the for sale section soon?
> 
> What amp are you using? HD800S is only listenable to me on tubes, SS pairings are not great..



Not sure yet - they still sound very nice indeed, and they are so much lighter. 

Using an ifi Pro iCan in tube mode, I really think it brings the most out of them (and it works so well with the ab-1266)


----------



## number1sixerfan

Hoegaardener70 said:


> When I got my ab-1266 TC, I retired (=sold) my HD800S. In my memory, the Sennheiser performed in some areas nearly on par with the Abyss. I today got a new HD800S which I picked up during the sale. I must say, in direct comparison now with the Abyss well burned in, the HD800S does not even come close.
> 
> The only difference is comfort, which I must say is a real strong point of the HD800S for me with the glasses I wear (no pressure at all). But at its price point, the HD800S is a total winner, if properly driven. Reaching to the levels of the abyss - no, not at all.



Same here. I have both. Going to eventually get rid of the HD800S. What they do right, they do extremely well (and especially for the price, a bargain really). But the TC's are just on an entirely different level altogether.


----------



## Litlgi74

Deleted


----------



## Sage Encore

ken6217 said:


> I’m about to list my Simaudio 600i V2 for sale if anyone is interested.


What is your next choice of poison sir?


----------



## ahossam

Any music recommendations that can show the 1266 TC imaging and soundstage capability? Any genres is welcomed.


----------



## simorag

ahossam said:


> Any music recommendations that can show the 1266 TC imaging and soundstage capability? Any genres is welcomed.



Soundstage size and transparency (and dynamics, and timbre, and glorious execution ...).






Ridiculous imaging (and one of my overall favorite recordings). 





Ambience and soundstage depth (and really emotional music btw).





Immersive soundstage, fun factor to the ceiling!


----------



## ahossam

simorag said:


> Soundstage size and transparency (and dynamics, and timbre, and glorious execution ...).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They're on Qobuz great! I will stream them later on my free time, thanks!


----------



## ken6217

Sage Encore said:


> What is your next choice of poison sir?



I got an Audio Research Ref 75SE amp. Sold the Simaudio already.


----------



## bfin3

Has anyone tried the DNA Stellaris with the Abyss?


----------



## koven

ken6217 said:


> I got an Audio Research Ref 75SE amp. Sold the Simaudio already.



Looks beastly, what speakers are you using?


----------



## Sage Encore

ken6217 said:


> I got an Audio Research Ref 75SE amp. Sold the Simaudio already.


That's a mighty fine dose of poison right there. Enjoy. How do they sound driving the Abyss?


----------



## Roasty

Is there anyone here using a simaudio moon neo 430ha with the 1266?


----------



## Sage Encore

Roasty said:


> Is there anyone here using a simaudio moon neo 430ha with the 1266?


I was using it till I went with a speaker amp. It’s a very good amp, very neutral and drives the Abyss with good authority. I did blow the inverter or something on it. Got it fixed through a Friend of mine. It is old but still very good. The DAC version is pretty well implemented but it’s dated now.


----------



## ken6217

koven said:


> Looks beastly, what speakers are you using?
> [/QUOTE
> 
> I actually got it for my Abyss, but will use them with my Revel speakers as well.


----------



## Roasty

Sage Encore said:


> I was using it till I went with a speaker amp. It’s a very good amp, very neutral and drives the Abyss with good authority. I did blow the inverter or something on it. Got it fixed through a Friend of mine. It is old but still very good. The DAC version is pretty well implemented but it’s dated now.



Thanks man. There is someone selling it locally for around Usd2400. I just saw the listing but it's been on the local buy/sell for a while now.


----------



## ken6217 (Jun 2, 2020)

Sage Encore said:


> That's a mighty fine dose of poison right there. Enjoy. How do they sound driving the Abyss?



Never heard anything like it in my life. The dynamics, layering, soundstage, detail,
musicality, and depth front to back is off the charts. You truly don’t need speakers with this combo.


----------



## Sage Encore

ken6217 said:


> Never heard anything like it in my life. The dynamics, layering, soundstage, detail,
> musicality, and depth front to back is off the charts. You truly don’t need speakers with this combo.


I know exactly how u feel sir, my SPEC does the same thing to me as well. Enjoy....and stay safe boss


----------



## Sage Encore

Roasty said:


> Thanks man. There is someone selling it locally for around Usd2400. I just saw the listing but it's been on the local buy/sell for a while now.


Don’t mean to throw a spanner in the works, have u considered a speaker amp? When u say locally, whereabouts is that sir?


----------



## Roasty (Jun 2, 2020)

Sage Encore said:


> Don’t mean to throw a spanner in the works, have u considered a speaker amp? When u say locally, whereabouts is that sir?



Locally meaning Singapore. 
I do have an AHB2. But never got round to trying it. To be honest, i might not go down that route, as I don't want to risk warranty. Plus I already have this right sided driver issue; the last thing I want is to say in this thread is that I've been using a speaker amp to drive it..


----------



## Sage Encore (Jun 2, 2020)

Roasty said:


> Locally meaning Singapore.
> I do have an AHB2. But never got round to trying it. To be honest, i might not go down that route, as I don't want to risk warranty. Plus I already have this right sided driver issue; the last thing I want is to say in this thread is that I've been using a speaker amp to drive it..


I thought you were from Singapore too. To tell an hunch I got, I think that’s my amp, it’s come with the DAC right? I sold it very cheap to another guy on Carousell, Don’t spend that much on that amp. I did ask for the serial number to verify but he asked $100 just for that. What an ass?


----------



## Sage Encore

Roasty said:


> Locally meaning Singapore.
> I do have an AHB2. But never got round to trying it. To be honest, i might not go down that route, as I don't want to risk warranty. Plus I already have this right sided driver issue; the last thing I want is to say in this thread is that I've been using a speaker amp to drive it..


Why don’t you get it Jeremy from AV one to send it back for a check


----------



## Roasty

Sage Encore said:


> I thought you were from Singapore too. To tell an hunch I got, I think that’s my amp, it’s come with the DAC right? I sold it very cheap to another guy on Carousell, Don’t spend that much on that amp. I did ask for the serial number to verify but he asked $100 just for that. What an ass?



Oh thanks for the heads up! 



Sage Encore said:


> Why don’t you get it Jeremy from AV one to send it back for a check



Yep I've already informed him a while back. Just waiting for the shop to reopen..


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jun 3, 2020)

simorag said:


> Soundstage size and transparency (and dynamics, and timbre, and glorious execution ...).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for these suggestions... for those that haven't listened to these recordings yet.... THEY ARE NO JOKE!!!! 
@simorag WOW... I look forward to all of your suggestions... this one is especially incredible!


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Jun 2, 2020)

Since I know this is a very demanding crowd here with high standards …. any recommendations for cable re-termination services?


----------



## lambdastorm (Jun 3, 2020)

For crap and giggles, yesterday I had a dream about visiting a local CNC facility and spotting an abyss on the far end of the production line. 

I distinctly remember the facility being huge and all the finished parts are hung high on the ceiling instead of put on the table or an assembly line. The parts all look and feel plasticky instead of aluminum. On the very far end of the facility is a frame of an Abyss headphone. The grill pattern is different on both sides. I asked the worker if he can retrieve that for me but he declined and said something really nasty. Funky dream.


----------



## attmci

lambdastorm said:


> For crap and giggles, yesterday I had a dream about visiting a local CNC facility and spotting an abyss.
> 
> I distinctly remember the facility being huge and all the finished parts are hung high on the ceiling instead of put on the table or an assembly line. The parts all look and feel plasticky instead of aluminum. On the very far end of the facility is a frame of an Abyss headphone. The grill pattern is different on both sides. I asked the worker if he can retrieve that for me but he declined and said something really nasty. Funky dream.


Any nice Amp/DAC there? LOL


----------



## llamaluv

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Since I know this is a very demanding crowd here with high standards …. any recommendations for cable re-termination services?



I used Triton Audio Cables @alpha421 over half a dozen times last year for retermination requests and custom cable builds (including a novel one involving the SR1a). Prompt, and professional to a fault.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

llamaluv said:


> I used Triton Audio Cables @alpha421 over half a dozen times last year for retermination requests and custom cable builds (including a novel one involving the SR1a). Prompt, and professional to a fault.



Thanks - appreciated


----------



## F208Frank

simorag said:


> Soundstage size and transparency (and dynamics, and timbre, and glorious execution ...).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Simorag, I just want to speak in american terms, I **** with you my man. 

You always have solid advice, good taste, and many others have always mentioned that you're a gentleman.


----------



## drew911d (Jun 3, 2020)

I have to say, I've been more a lurker here than poster.  I've seen a lot of what @simorag  has posted.  More than any other poster, his descriptions/reviews always seem to match up with with what I like.  I'm always waiting to hear what he has to say about amps, his taste from reading between the lines is more like what I like than any other reviewer.  It's because of his similar taste I'm waiting to hear what he has to say about the Bakoon AMP-13R VS the Riviera AIC10.  I'm interested to say the least.



F208Frank said:


> Simorag, I just want to speak in american terms, I **** with you my man.
> 
> You always have solid advice, good taste, and many others have always mentioned that you're a gentleman.


----------



## koven

drew911d said:


> I have to say, I've been more a lurker here than poster.  I've seen a lot of what @simorag  has posted.  More than any other poster, his descriptions/reviews always seem to match up with with what I like.  I'm always waiting to hear what he has to say about amps, his taste from reading between the lines is more like what I like than any other reviewer.  It's because of his similar taste I'm waiting to hear what he has to say about the Bakoon AMP-13R VS the Riviera AIC10.  I'minterested to say the least.



I didn't see him mention trying the Bakoon vs Riviera but maybe I missed that? As a Bakoon user I'd be curious about this comparison w/ AIC10 at 2x price.


----------



## drew911d

My point exactly.  He didn't.  I'm just hoping he might do this review.  @simorag I'm hoping for a review, and please forgive me for throwing you under the bus.  Your reviews are very insightful.  I ask because he is the most prolific user/poster for the Riveria that I know of.  The Bakoon is extremely hyped so far and I want to know if it is real.  And @koven it would be great to hear your thoughts as an experienced user vs any other amp you've used.



koven said:


> I didn't see him mention trying the Bakoon vs Riviera but maybe I missed that? As a Bakoon user I'd be curious about this comparison w/ AIC10 at 2x price.


----------



## koven

drew911d said:


> My point exactly.  He didn't.  I'm just hoping he might do this review.  @simorag I'm hoping for a review, and please forgive me for throwing you under the bus.  Your reviews are very insightful.  I ask because he is the most prolific user/poster for the Riveria that I know of.  The Bakoon is extremely hyped so far and I want to know if it is real.  And @koven it would be great to hear your thoughts as an experienced user vs any other amp you've used.



Ah I see, I hope so too.. @simorag don't let us down.. 

Bakoon is pretty hyped yes, I wanted to know as well, luckily for me the owner of Bakoon relocated from South Korea to about 15 minutes from me in California so I was fortunate enough to get a local demo. Super nice guy. He says it's selling like hotcakes. I don't have an Abyss so don't want to get too off topic here but I posted some thoughts vs Benchmark HPA4 on the Susvara thread a couple weeks ago. Long story short I now have an AMP-13R.


----------



## lambdastorm

attmci said:


> Any nice Amp/DAC there? LOL


Unfortunately no lmao. That facility has all kinds of random things crammed together and abyss is the only thing that's headphone related.


----------



## simorag (Jun 3, 2020)

drew911d said:


> I'm waiting to hear what he has to say about the Bakoon AMP-13R VS the Riviera AIC10. I'm interested to say the least.





koven said:


> Ah I see, I hope so too.. @simorag don't let us down..



Gentlemen, sorry to disappoint you, but I have no access to the Bakoon amp unfortunately . I am very curious about it as well, but I am just a regular guy, not a professional reviewer to whom gear is sent by manufacturers, shops etc. 🤷‍♂️

To make up for it, let me throw in another bunch of great recordings of beautiful music, where the Abyss qualities really shine.

This is for incredible dynamics and visceral impact (when he pounds his feet to the floor you hear it in your chest like no other headphones I tried could do). Enjoy!




Another great example of a cavernous soundstage beautifully rendered by the AB-1266 in all three dimensions. You may need to push your amp for experiencing a realistic dynamics with this quietly recorded material.



One of the very best piano recordings I have tried, and a compelling interpretation from one of the most interesting pianists of his generation.


----------



## DAS OHR

best headphones to use it with a cap.


----------



## ken6217

DAS OHR said:


> best headphones to use it with a cap.



Kudos on the Zappa tee shirt. I used to see him every Halloween in Manhattan.


----------



## DAS OHR

Hi Ken...I only saw him live once. 1992 in Frankfurt at the recording of "Yellow Shark". He was already badly affected by his illness. Zappa is the musician I've heard the most in my life. Followed by Steely Dan and the Beatles. I'm glad that there are so many albums and especially so many live albums of him. And some of them really sound great!!! Have a nice day! Marcus.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

simorag said:


> Gentlemen, sorry to disappoint you, but I have no access to the Bakoon amp unfortunately . I am very curious about it as well, but I am just a regular guy, not a professional reviewer to whom gear is sent by manufacturers, shops etc. 🤷‍♂️
> 
> To make up for it, let me throw in another bunch of great recordings of beautiful music, where the Abyss qualities really shine.
> 
> ...



oh gosh, thank you so much for information about these songs sir!


----------



## ken6217

DAS OHR said:


> Hi Ken...I only saw him live once. 1992 in Frankfurt at the recording of "Yellow Shark". He was already badly affected by his illness. Zappa is the musician I've heard the most in my life. Followed by Steely Dan and the Beatles. I'm glad that there are so many albums and especially so many live albums of him. And some of them really sound great!!! Have a nice day! Marcus.



They say there's a thin line between genius and crazy. He definitely walked that line.


----------



## gonzalo1004es

Hi, I’m selling my mint Audio-GD HE9, just in case someone is interested. I own the Abyss Phi CC and it is an outstanding amp:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2020-audio-gd-he-9-headphone-amp-preamp.933839/


----------



## ahossam

At the moment my budget won't allow me to get both so I need help here.

Which one is having more effect to the overall sound quality that I can immediately hear, getting premium 300B and rectifier tube for my WA5 amp or getting Superconductor cable for my TC?

I am using EML tubes for the last six months and considering getting Elrog or other premium brand.


----------



## m17xr2b

Get a different amp than the WA5, it's good but hardly the best 300B amp.  An AirTight 300B amp would be better of taking advantage of what Elrog or any other premium brand tube has to offer.


----------



## koven

m17xr2b said:


> Get a different amp than the WA5, it's good but hardly the best 300B amp.  An AirTight 300B amp would be better of taking advantage of what Elrog or any other premium brand tube has to offer.



Wait.. he said his budget limits him to either new tubes or a cable upgrade, and your recommendation is to get a $10K+ amp instead?


----------



## ahossam

If I have that budget I will not asking about getting tubes or cable upgrade, I will ask which amp should I get? Elite WA33 or some speaker amp.


----------



## koven

ahossam said:


> If I have that budget I will not asking about getting tubes or cable upgrade, I will ask which amp should I get? Elite WA33 or some speaker amp.



I vote for tubes but Takatsuki instead, wait for a used pair maybe.


----------



## m17xr2b

koven said:


> Wait.. he said his budget limits him to either new tubes or a cable upgrade, and your recommendation is to get a $10K+ amp instead?


It's always hard to decide:
1. Get tubes that will never sound at their full potential on a mediocre amp
2. Get a TOTL amp with basic tubes that may sound better than a basic tube amp such as WA5 with TOTL tubes
3. Get out of the hobby and find something sensible, stamp collection. 

I've had the WA5 for a long while and had a modder change it to my specification, night and day difference and showed how restricting the stock circuit is. Putting Takatsuki on a donkey won't make it a unicorn.


----------



## koven

m17xr2b said:


> It's always hard to decide:
> 1. Get tubes that will never sound at their full potential on a mediocre amp
> 2. Get a TOTL amp with basic tubes that may sound better than a basic tube amp such as WA5 with TOTL tubes
> 3. Get out of the hobby and find something sensible, stamp collection.
> ...



You're kind of saying why drive a Lexus when you can drive a Ferrari. Everyone has a budget to work with, no?


----------



## m17xr2b (Jun 4, 2020)

Not really, I'm saying if it's a Lexus don't put 30K turbos on it and 20K suspension since it's still a Lexus.  Have you owned the WA5 and tried different tubes on it and especially the Elrogs? I have and currently listening to one, it's limited in stock form and no point it pretending it's not. This one has Tango Iso FC20S output transformers, a different beast entirely.


----------



## koven

m17xr2b said:


> Not really, I'm saying if it's a Lexus don't put 30K turbos on it and 20K suspension since it's still a Lexus.  Have you owned the WA5 and tried different tubes on it and especially the Elrogs? I have and currently listening to one, it's limited in stock form and no point it pretending it's not.



I've only used WA5 w/ stock tubes but cool suped up donkey you got there.  All I'm saying is you're going on some wild tangent when he asked a pretty simple question i.e. new tubes or cables for $1500..


----------



## ken6217

m17xr2b said:


> Get a different amp than the WA5, it's good but hardly the best 300B amp.  An AirTight 300B amp would be better of taking advantage of what Elrog or any other premium brand tube has to offer.



Did you take the time to read his post? He said he had enough money to get the cable or the tubes. Doesn’t sound like he has the money to sell his amp, take a bath on it, and spend more money on a new amp.

I do agree that Woo isn’t the way to go for a 300B amp, but he’s not buying a new amp.


----------



## m17xr2b (Jun 4, 2020)

I get it, it's worth it IMO in the short term but not long term and rather wasted in the end where a better 300B  amp will be better for future proofing, the never ending debate for us audiophiles.
There's something about the WA5LE even with the caps upgrade that sounds warm and somewhat slow which isn't typical with Vcaps.

What I'm trying to say, for his question, don't bother, it's not worth it. Also cable upgrades are pretty stupid. Same unicorn reference and this is from someone who has WyWires platinum ICs.


----------



## ahossam

Between new tubes or cable upgrade which one that will give me the most of my listening experience with WA5 and TC setup.

Getting a new system maybe in the near future, but not now thats for sure.

Anyways, thank you all for your responses much appreciated.


----------



## m17xr2b

If you can, get a used pair of Sophia Royal Princess 300B tubes, the standard Princess is a no go, don't bother with the upgrade cables, that's only once you reached your perfect end game the 5th time.
Otherwise I'd say enjoy your system as it is. Just switched mine it, they're very good but too expensive new.


----------



## ahossam

m17xr2b said:


> that's only once you reached your perfect end game the 5th time.



That is hard, how'd you know you have reach perfect end game for the first time?


----------



## JLoud (Jun 4, 2020)

I disagree, The WA5 is a very nice amp. Especially for power hungry headphones. I have the second edition so my opinion is based on that. I am running the EML 300B's and the 5U4G tubes. Short of Taks I think your really only getting a different flavor not an upgrade. For the price EML's are very nice. Of course only my opinion.


----------



## m17xr2b

JLoud said:


> The WA5 is a very nice amp. Especially for power hungry headphones.


Interesting, any other tube amps of the same calibre to compare with that you've owned?


----------



## koven

m17xr2b said:


> I get it, it's worth it IMO in the short term but not long term and rather wasted in the end where a better 300B  amp will be better for future proofing, the never ending debate for us audiophiles.
> There's something about the WA5LE even with the caps upgrade that sounds warm and somewhat slow which isn't typical with Vcaps.
> 
> What I'm trying to say, for his question, don't bother, it's not worth it. Also cable upgrades are pretty stupid. Same unicorn reference and this is from someone who has WyWires platinum ICs.



It's a fair point but it's coming across kind of ironic since it looks like you put '30k turbos' on your own WA5 while advising against it. Does this mean you are disappointed in your own ROI here? Not instigating, just sincerely curious.


----------



## JLoud

I've demoed The Manley labs, Liquid Gold, Pendant, and WA33. Liked the WA33, didn't like the Manley. The other two were nice but didn't move me to change. Of course comparing amps of significant cost can be difficult. What one person may feel makes an amp superior another may dislike. In the end it is all just opinion. To each his own.


----------



## m17xr2b (Jun 4, 2020)

This is a offtopic for the 1266 discuss but since you asked.

My WA5 is a top end Ferrari in a Lexus chassis. I commissioned a skilled builder to modify it and bring it to top performance, there's nothing really left from the original amp apart from the metalwork and filter chokes.  Some of the changes:
- Japanese output transformers;
- custom mains transformers and three additional heater transformers
- Jupiter coupling capacitors
- custom input stage where tubes can be mixed, a tung sol round plate and ECC32 can be done to combine the sound of both
- Duelund signal wiring
- goldpoint 47 stepped pot and input selector
- ability to adjust the operating point of the output tubes from cool to maximum dissipation for most power
- use of 300B or 2A3 or 45 or 46 or 801A or PX4 or PX25 or AD1 or VT52 etc....
- dual mono PSU design
- hybrid tube solid state rectifier bridge
- extra large heater transformers for 300BXLS, 520B, BL32 etc.
- speaker outputs
and many more.

I wanted to hear what a master DIY builder amp can sound like, compare it against my daily one the DNA Stellaris and my own personal build.
Even so the upgraded WA5 is far, far better than the stock even with the upgraded caps and really shows how much goes into the chassis, dealer markup and quite less for the actual components, I cringe at generic electrolytic caps on a 3K+ amp and not audio ones at least.





JLoud said:


> I've demoed The Manley labs, Liquid Gold, Pendant, and WA33


Never heard the Manley, had the LG good but not great, Pendant is so/so at best, WA33 has potential, liked it a bit. IMO of course.


----------



## koven

m17xr2b said:


> This is a offtopic for the 1266 discuss but since you asked.
> 
> My WA5 is a top end Ferrari in a Lexus chassis. I commissioned a skilled builder to modify it and bring it to top performance, there's nothing really left from the original amp apart from the metalwork and filter chokes.  Some of the changes:
> - Japanese output transformers;
> ...



Impressive. So would you say it stacks up to an AirTight or Vinnie Rossi w/ these modifications?


----------



## ken6217

m17xr2b said:


> It's always hard to decide:
> 1. Get tubes that will never sound at their full potential on a mediocre amp
> 2. Get a TOTL amp with basic tubes that may sound better than a basic tube amp such as WA5 with TOTL tubes
> 3. Get out of the hobby and find something sensible, stamp collection.
> ...


----------



## ken6217

koven said:


> Impressive. So would you say it stacks up to an AirTight or Vinnie Rossi w/ these modifications?



Airtight discontinued their standard 300B amps. They do have a suped up model for lack of a better word for about $15k. Who knows how it sounds, but the price is dumb.


----------



## ahossam (Jun 4, 2020)

Out of curiosity, how is WA5 compare to Formula S + Powerman driving 1266 TC? WA5 power output is 8 watts while Formula S + Powerman is 6 watts.


----------



## ken6217 (Jun 4, 2020)

ahossam said:


> Out of curiosity, how is WA5 compare to Formula S + Powerman driving 1266 TC? WA5 power output is 8 watts while Formula S is 6 watts.



I believe the WA5 is 5 watts for headphones. usually a 300 B only puts out 8 watts at the speaker taps.


----------



## ken6217

ahossam said:


> Out of curiosity, how is WA5 compare to Formula S + Powerman driving 1266 TC? WA5 power output is 8 watts while Formula S + Powerman is 6 watts.



Why don’t you get yourself a pass Labs X a .8 speaker ramp. 30W class A and a lot of current. Sounds like a tube amp, but it’s solid state. Lots of inner detail. Read some reviews on it. You won’t see anything negative. You could buy a used one for about $4800.


----------



## ahossam

ken6217 said:


> I believe the WA5 is 5 watts for headphones. usually a 300 B only puts out 8 watts at the speaker taps.



According to the manual the WA5-LE power output is 8W @120 Ω with high power on via 4 pin XLR and 1/4" TRS output.



ken6217 said:


> Why don’t you get yourself a pass Labs X a .8 speaker ramp. 30W class A and a lot of current. Sounds like a tube amp, but it’s solid state. Lots of inner detail. Read some reviews on it. You won’t see anything negative. You could buy a used one for about $4800.



I will add this to my "list of audio gear awareness"


----------



## ken6217

ahossam said:


> According to the manual the WA5-LE power output is 8W @120 Ω with high power on via 4 pin XLR and 1/4" TRS output.
> 
> 
> I will add this to my "list of audio gear awareness"



I stand corrected.


----------



## lambdastorm (Jun 5, 2020)

m17xr2b said:


> This is a offtopic for the 1266 discuss but since you asked.
> 
> My WA5 is a top end Ferrari in a Lexus chassis. I commissioned a skilled builder to modify it and bring it to top performance, there's nothing really left from the original amp apart from the metalwork and filter chokes.  Some of the changes:
> - Japanese output transformers;
> ...



I'm a simple man. I see Mundorf I upvote.

Jokings aside, I don't see any reason Woo would use Mundorf in their regular amps, if general caps do the job fine then more savings to them. The best commercially attainable cap has always been Nichicon's audio line. Anything past that is strictly botique/luxury.


----------



## Articnoise

ahossam said:


> According to the manual the WA5-LE power output is 8W @120 Ω with high power on via 4 pin XLR and 1/4" TRS output.
> 
> 
> 
> I will add this to my "list of audio gear awareness"



I would not take Woo’s clams as fact. It’s simply not possible to have the same output power at 8 and 120 Ohms on the same amp/output. Note also at which level THD the 8 Watt at 8 Ohm was measured. I have no third-party measurements on the WA5-LE but you can read this on the review of Woo Audio WA5.

_“Claimed to deliver 10Wpc into 8 ohms (10dBW) at 3% distortion, the WA5 didn't meet that specification with the Psvane 300B. Fig.6 reveals that, into 8 ohms, the amplifier reached 1% THD (our usual definition of clipping) at just 618mW, and at 3% THD+noise delivered just 3W (4.8dBW). Even at 10% THD+N, the power is only 8.5Wpc (9.3dBW). Note also the rapid rise in THD as the power increases above a couple of hundred milliwatts—this amplifier's output stage has what could be kindly referred to as a "bent" transfer function. The WA5 actually offers better linearity into 4 ohms (fig.7), with 4.8Wpc available at 3% THD+N and 8Wpc at 10% THD+N, these powers respectively equivalent to 3.8 and 6dBW.”

https://www.stereophile.com/content...ted-amplifierheadphone-amplifier-measurements _


----------



## ahossam

Articnoise said:


> I would not take Woo’s clams as fact. It’s simply not possible to have the same output power at 8 and 120 Ohms on the same amp/output. Note also at which level THD the 8 Watt at 8 Ohm was measured. I have no third-party measurements on the WA5-LE but you can read this on the review of Woo Audio WA5.
> 
> _“Claimed to deliver 10Wpc into 8 ohms (10dBW) at 3% distortion, the WA5 didn't meet that specification with the Psvane 300B. Fig.6 reveals that, into 8 ohms, the amplifier reached 1% THD (our usual definition of clipping) at just 618mW, and at 3% THD+noise delivered just 3W (4.8dBW). Even at 10% THD+N, the power is only 8.5Wpc (9.3dBW). Note also the rapid rise in THD as the power increases above a couple of hundred milliwatts—this amplifier's output stage has what could be kindly referred to as a "bent" transfer function. The WA5 actually offers better linearity into 4 ohms (fig.7), with 4.8Wpc available at 3% THD+N and 8Wpc at 10% THD+N, these powers respectively equivalent to 3.8 and 6dBW.”
> 
> https://www.stereophile.com/content...ted-amplifierheadphone-amplifier-measurements _



I just quote what was written on their manual, if there's Woo Audio representative in this thread care to clarify that would be nice.


----------



## JLoud

I can't tell you what the actual output is, or distortion measurements. I can tell you my WA5le second edition drives my Abyss 1266TC, Audeze LCD4, Hifiman HE6se, and HEDDphone with ease. No Audible distortion. No clipping. Just wonderful music to my ears. I like to listen at fairly high volumes, and even the HE6 never goes past 12 o'clock on the volume dial. How it sounds is what matters. No matter what piece of equipment your talking about, someone can find a measurement that makes it look bad, or good for that matter. I trust my ears.


----------



## wazzupi

DAS OHR said:


> best headphones to use it with a cap.


How do you like the verite closed ?


----------



## Mikey99

DAS OHR said:


> best headphones to use it with a cap.


I like the Zappa shirt!


----------



## Ciggavelli

CreditingKarma said:


> Fot me the noble Khan is the closest tight now.


Another Hifi friend recommended these. I think I might blind buy tomorrow. 

Anybody else have recommendations for an IEM? I really enjoy my TCs (especially the bass) and my SR1a ( for resolution and speed), for reference. Maybe a budget of $3000 (plus or minus)


----------



## ekfc63 (Jun 11, 2020)

Ciggavelli said:


> Another Hifi friend recommended these. I think I might blind buy tomorrow.
> 
> Anybody else have recommendations for an IEM? I really enjoy my TCs (especially the bass) and my SR1a ( for resolution and speed), for reference. Maybe a budget of $3000 (plus or minus)



I’m on a similar journey having spent a few weeks being able to listen to my TCs while working from home.  I’ve been looking for some IEMs for use while I’m at the office.  I’m by no means experienced with IEMs, but in the last few weeks I‘ve been busily reading Headfi IEM forum, watching YouTube vidos and have managed to assemble a small collection of IEMs including Campfire Jupiter, Campfire Solaris and 64 Audio U12t.  None of them are quite at TC level, but of the three the U12t comes closest as one might expect as its the most expensive.  They are a very satisfying IEM. There’s a whole rabbit hole of fit, tip type with IEMs.  They also require careful matching for frequency balance and hiss.

At the budget level (sub 50 quid) I’ve heard the Tin Audi T2 and Blon-03 are worth a listen and compare well to some very high priced IEMs.  Might be worth trying a pair to see if IEMs work for you.


----------



## Roasty (Jun 11, 2020)

Ciggavelli said:


> Another Hifi friend recommended these. I think I might blind buy tomorrow.
> 
> Anybody else have recommendations for an IEM? I really enjoy my TCs (especially the bass) and my SR1a ( for resolution and speed), for reference. Maybe a budget of $3000 (plus or minus)



I tried the Khan and didn't really like it. The  64 Audio A12T on the other hand stole the show. The bass is crazy tight with slam and there is so much of it. The universals were good but the customs turned out even better. Highs are amazingly sweet and the soundstage is immense for an iem. It really sounded to me like an abyss iem. Ordered the custom A12T after a several demos, also comparing with the qdc anole vx, U18T, and the other top range iems from fibae, fearless, lime ears. The 18T and anole vx are up there, but the highs are a bit on the bright side for me and just too fatiguing after a short while. Unfortunately did not get to try fourte/fourte noir as the shop didn't have it. In another shop I also tried the campfire range as well as the JH iems but all were not to my taste.


----------



## ekfc63

Ciggavelli said:


> Another Hifi friend recommended these. I think I might blind buy tomorrow.
> 
> Anybody else have recommendations for an IEM? I really enjoy my TCs (especially the bass) and my SR1a ( for resolution and speed), for reference. Maybe a budget of $3000 (plus or minus)



Theres a thread on the IEM forum ranking peoples top IEMs.  Might be a good place to start.  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rank-the-iems-youve-heard.454855/


----------



## ken6217

I have a 64 Audio A12 and it is amazing. Might have as good a base as the TC. 

If you’re going to buy and IEM, get yourself a custom, not a universal. You’ll never get as good a fit, and therefore not get as good of a seal, and therefore the sound will suffer.


----------



## lambdastorm

I don't know about you people but IEMs always make my ear itch after I wear it for more than an hour. After living with open-backs for so long, I just can't deal with jamming something into my ears with no air circulation.


----------



## zenworm

lambdastorm said:


> I don't know about you people but IEMs always make my ear itch after I wear it for more than an hour. After living with open-backs for so long, I just can't deal with jamming something into my ears with no air circulation.



Same, I tried IEMs at work for awhile (Shure SE846) and I did not at all like sticking them in my ears. They were fiddly, even after switching to nicer foam pads, and at work the constant on/off I had to do made the whole thing a no-go. I did like the isolation though.


----------



## ekfc63

ken6217 said:


> I have a 64 Audio A12 and it is amazing. Might have as good a base as the TC.
> 
> If you’re going to buy and IEM, get yourself a custom, not a universal. You’ll never get as good a fit, and therefore not get as good of a seal, and therefore the sound will suffer.



Wonder how the A12 compares to the U12t?


----------



## lambdastorm

zenworm said:


> Same, I tried IEMs at work for awhile (Shure SE846) and I did not at all like sticking them in my ears. They were fiddly, even after switching to nicer foam pads, and at work the constant on/off I had to do made the whole thing a no-go. I did like the isolation though.


Funny that you mentioned SE846, cuz that's the exact IEM that made me give up on IEMs. I bought it after so many rave reviews praising its bass and ergonomic shape. For me though it was neither bass-satisfying nor ergonomic. The shape is fine, but constantly having to put them on and off and fiddling with the foam just throws me off.


----------



## Roasty (Jun 11, 2020)

ekfc63 said:


> Wonder how the A12 compares to the U12t?



Much better bass and mids. Very luscious filling sound. Highs become less sharp, but that's a good thing for the 12T imo. It does remind me of the abyss 1266 somewhat, with the A12T having the lesser soundstage and air up top, but a bit more of the mids and midbass.


----------



## tommir (Jun 12, 2020)

Ciggavelli said:


> Another Hifi friend recommended these. I think I might blind buy tomorrow.
> 
> Anybody else have recommendations for an IEM? I really enjoy my TCs (especially the bass) and my SR1a ( for resolution and speed), for reference. Maybe a budget of $3000 (plus or minus)


Don't have 1266 on my own yet because didn't have proper amp and that's why I bought Khans instead   My vote for Noble Khan. These are the best iems I've ever heard.
By the way, bought Wells Milo few days ago so it should be enough power to drive 1266. I prefer to buy used ones and my question is - is it still worth to buy old version or add "some" money to byu something newer?


----------



## Ciggavelli

My Rooms Abyss 1266 headphone stand came in.  It's very high quality and good looking.  It's about as tall as my Woo Audio stands, when adjusted up.


----------



## drew911d

I ordered the same a few weeks ago.  Still waiting to hear when it will ship.




Ciggavelli said:


> My Rooms Abyss 1266 headphone stand came in.  It's very high quality and good looking.  It's about as tall as my Woo Audio stands, when adjusted up.


----------



## Ciggavelli

drew911d said:


> I ordered the same a few weeks ago.  Still waiting to hear when it will ship.


I had to wait a bit too. Apparently there was a delay with some parts from Germany.


----------



## MatW

I just joined the club. I got the stand (and the TCs ...   ) this week. Super excited!


----------



## STR-1

How much running in does a 1266 PHI TC with standard cable need?  Just received one on loan for two weeks from my dealer, who said it had very few hours on it.


----------



## Ciggavelli

STR-1 said:


> How much running in does a 1266 PHI TC with standard cable need?  Just received one on loan for two weeks from my dealer, who said it had very few hours on it.


I didn’t burn the standard cables at all, and they sounded great from the beginning  I upgraded to the super conductor cables, and I think I remember Joe saying there should be a 75 hour burn in, so maybe the standard takes that long as well


----------



## drew911d (Jun 12, 2020)

Stefan saw this and quickly pm'd me.  It seems my stand might be shipping soon!



Ciggavelli said:


> I had to wait a bit too. Apparently there was a delay with some parts from Germany.


----------



## StefanHAA

drew911d said:


> Stefan saw this and quickly pm'd me.  It seems my stand might be shipping soon!


It will ship Monday! And then I have one stand left for sale with more coming in in a couple of weeks. Thank you guys for your patience!


----------



## terirapt

Roasty said:


> Hmm I think my right driver has issues. Past few days, the right driver doesn't play any music, until I raise the volume above a certain level. Then the right driver kicks in and music plays. Following that, I can lower volume down low without music cutting out on the right side. On occasion there is very soft static distortion for under a second at a time; this happens not often.
> 
> If I don't raise the volume up high first, there is only music from the left side.
> 
> Have replicated this scenario with my hpa4, gsx mini and wa22 and stock and superconductor cables.



I seem to have the same problem but left driver. Driver does not play music until I crank up the volume and after that it plays fine. Encountered this on both HPA4 and WA22. Plan to swap cable sides to see if it is cable issue but the problem this is intermittent and not sure how long I need to leave the headphones unused before the “driver sleep?” problem come back?  But if it is the cable, shouldnt I get this problem more frequent or even all the time?


----------



## Roasty

terirapt said:


> I seem to have the same problem but left driver. Driver does not play music until I crank up the volume and after that it plays fine. Encountered this on both HPA4 and WA22. Plan to swap cable sides to see if it is cable issue but the problem this is intermittent and not sure how long I need to leave the headphones unused before the “driver sleep?” problem come back?  But if it is the cable, shouldnt I get this problem more frequent or even all the time?



Ok so now there are 4 users with really similar issues... 

My headphones are still with me and I haven't been able to get them to the local dealer (they're still closed due to COVID-19 measures). 

I'll be getting in touch with Abyss directly and see if I should send them the headphones directly rather than wait and go thru my dealer when they eventually open.


----------



## rmsanger

Just joined the club and received my 1266 phi tcs on Friday and am enjoying them...  I have a SPL Phonitor E coming on Moday but have a feeling I'll also want to consider a tube amp at some point.

I'm also planning on getting some Maggie LRS speakers soon and have the opportunity for a great deal to acquire a primaluna dialogue premium integrated amp from a local contact:
https://www.primaluna-usa.com/dialogue-premium-integrated

Obviously this is a full range speaker amp but I've heard about posters hooking up their Abyss to full size amps.   Is it possible to power to the 1266's using this amp?  If so is this a bad idea in terms of damaging the headphones?

Specs:


Price$3,399Power: Ultra-linear
(8 Ohms, 1% THD)42 watts x 2 (EL34)    Output Power: Triode
(8 Ohms, 1% THD)25 watts x 2 (EL34)Inputs5 Pair RCA +
 1 Pair HT bypassOutputs4 & 8 Ohm
RCA Subwoofer OutFreq. Response (+/- 1dB)5Hz-30kHz (EL34) 
 


THD (1W/1kHz)0.14% (EL34)S/N Ratio86 dB (EL34)Input Sensitivity275mV (EL34)Input Impedance100k OhmPower Consumption280 wattsStandard Tube Compliment    6 - 12AU7
4 - EL34Dimensions (WxHxD)15.2" x 8" x 15.9"Weight63.8 lbs


----------



## ken6217

rmsanger said:


> Just joined the club and received my 1266 phi tcs on Friday and am enjoying them...  I have a SPL Phonitor E coming on Moday but have a feeling I'll also want to consider a tube amp at some point.
> 
> I'm also planning on getting some Maggie LRS speakers soon and have the opportunity for a great deal to acquire a primaluna dialogue premium integrated amp from a local contact:
> https://www.primaluna-usa.com/dialogue-premium-integrated
> ...



For sure. You've come to the right place. 

You need to get a speaker tap / female XLR adapter cable. As long as you exercise care, you won't damage your headphones. Most importantly, turn the amp on last, and off first.


----------



## rmsanger

ken6217 said:


> For sure. You've come to the right place.
> 
> You need to get a speaker tap / female XLR adapter cable. As long as you exercise care, you won't damage your headphones. Most importantly, turn the amp on last, and off first.



Do you have a link to where I might able to buy a cable like that or is that a custom job?  Also when you say exercise care is there a series of steps on what you mean by that?  Or is it just taking care at listening volumes and if it distorts to lower the volume?


----------



## Litlgi74

rmsanger said:


> Do you have a link to where I might able to buy a cable like that or is that a custom job?  Also when you say exercise care is there a series of steps on what you mean by that?  Or is it just taking care at listening volumes and if it distorts to lower the volume?


@teds headfood will make you a custom female XLR to speaker tap adapter... 

He can be reached at...  https://headphonelounge.com/ and tedallen0220@gmail.com


----------



## ken6217 (Jun 14, 2020)

rmsanger said:


> Do you have a link to where I might able to buy a cable like that or is that a custom job?  Also when you say exercise care is there a series of steps on what you mean by that?  Or is it just taking care at listening volumes and if it distorts to lower the volume?



Have the amp last component turned on, and the first component turned on. That’s basically it. I guess also don’t have it start up with the volume all the way up. I doubt you would do that with a speaker set up, and so I don’t see why you would do that anyway with headphones. There’s no listening level with your headphones, where it would be too loud and would damaged headphones, unless your deaf.

Your not putting as many watts into the headphone as you think at 47 ohms. I believe you divide the amount of watts it’s rated at at 8 ohms, by 6.

What tubes are you getting it with. My new amp can take KT-150 tubes and they are amazing. Killer dynamics and bass.

As far as cable adapters, check with your favorite headphone cable company and ask if they do it for you. Anyone can do it.


----------



## ken6217 (Jun 14, 2020)

Litlgi74 said:


> @teds headfood will make you a custom female XLR to speaker tap adapter...
> 
> He can be reached at...  https://headphonelounge.com/ and tedallen0220@gmail.com



Just as an aside, Ted made me an adapter and one side didn’t work. I emailed and told him that, and he’s trying to tell me that he doesn’t understand how that could happen, and are you sure that you hooked it up correctly. Pissed me off. Not pissed that it didn’t work, just pissed that a moron could hook it up and he’s questioning if I hooked it up correctly


----------



## Litlgi74

rmsanger said:


> Do you have a link to where I might able to buy a cable like that or is that a custom job?  Also when you say exercise care is there a series of steps on what you mean by that?  Or is it just taking care at listening volumes and if it distorts to lower the volume?


@teds headfood will make you a custom female XLR to speaker tap adapter... 

He can be reached at...  https://headphonelounge.com/ and





ken6217 said:


> Just as an aside, Ted made me an adapter and one side didn’t work. I emailed and told him that, and he’s trying to tell me that he doesn’t understand how that could happen, and are you sure that you hooked it up correctly. Pissed me off. Not pissed that it didn’t work, just pissed that a moron could hook it up and he’s questioning if I hooked it up correctly


Sorry to hear that Ken... Did he end up fixing it for you? I've had nothing but positive results from Ted... I've referred many people. You're the first that I've heard that had a problem.


----------



## ken6217

Litlgi74 said:


> @teds headfood will make you a custom female XLR to speaker tap adapter...
> 
> He can be reached at...  https://headphonelounge.com/ and
> Sorry to hear that Ken... Did he end up fixing it for you? I've had nothing but positive results from Ted... I've referred many people. You're the first that I've heard that had a problem.



Actually no. I got so pissed off I threw it in the garbage. I wasn’t pissed that it didn’t work. I was pissed at his attitude. I bought a superconductor adapter to match my headphone cable.


----------



## rmsanger

ken6217 said:


> Have the amp last component turned on, and the first component turned on. That’s basically it. I guess also don’t have it start up with the volume all the way up. I doubt you would do that with a speaker set up, and so I don’t see why you would do that anyway with headphones. There’s no listening level with your headphones, where it would be too loud and would damaged headphones, unless your deaf.
> 
> Your not putting as many watts into the headphone as you think at 47 ohms. I believe you divide the amount of watts it’s rated at at 8 ohms, by 6.
> 
> ...



The listing says it includes the original EL34 tubes plus the KT88 power tubes and the Mullard 12AU7 input tubes which apparently the Mullard tubes cost ~$300.  I may change them out at a later point but wanted to make sure I could use this on both the Abyss 1266 cans as well as the Maggies I intend to purchase.


----------



## ken6217 (Jun 14, 2020)

rmsanger said:


> The listing says it includes the original EL34 tubes plus the KT88 power tubes and the Mullard 12AU7 input tubes which apparently the Mullard tubes cost ~$300.  I may change them out at a later point but wanted to make sure I could use this on both the Abyss 1266 cans as well as the Maggies I intend to purchase.



what I meant is that it look like your amp will except those tubes. You don’t have to worry about the amount of power unless it’s a cheap quality amp. There’s another member on here that’s using a Pass Labs 250 W a channel with no issue. And exercise care. I’m pretty sure that Joe won’t cover the warranty a driver gets blown out from one of these amps.


----------



## rmsanger

ken6217 said:


> what I meant is that it look like your amp will except those tubes. You don’t have to worry about the amount of power unless it’s a cheap quality amp. There’s another member on here that’s using a Pass Labs 250 W a channel with no issue. And exercise care. I’m pretty sure that Joe won’t cover the warranty a driver gets blown out from one of these amps.



I have no clue if it's a "cheap quality amp".... I've seen it and demo'd it and it looks great, sounds great, and is 70 lbs but not sure if it's cheap quality or not.  Here is the product:
https://www.primaluna-usa.com/dialogue-premium-integrated


----------



## ken6217 (Jun 14, 2020)

rmsanger said:


> I have no clue if it's a "cheap quality amp".... I've seen it and demo'd it and it looks great, sounds great, and is 70 lbs but not sure if it's cheap quality or not.  Here is the product:
> https://www.primaluna-usa.com/dialogue-premium-integrated



You misunderstood,  I wasn’t saying your amp was a cheap quality amp. Prima Luna is very good.

I was saying that a cheap quality amp can do more damage to speakers and headphones than a higher powered quality amp.

Note that when I’m saying cheap, I mean quality, not price.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jun 14, 2020)

Spoiler: Discussion about IEMs.  Spoiler added to not derail the thread



I blind bought the Noble Audio Khan.  They sound very good, even out of my DragonFly. I'm pretty impressed.  Bass is great, treble is fast.  I'm buying some custom cables later in the week to bring everything up another notch.  Had to also re-buy the Hugo 2 with the 2go, so I can use these at the office


----------



## jlbrach

I have done business with ted numerous times all with no problem and satisfaction


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> I have done business with ted numerous times all with no problem and satisfaction



I know a lot of people have bought from Ted. I'm sure my experience was not the norm. I had no issue that it didn't work. I was just annoyed with his response.


----------



## mat.1

ken6217 said:


> Actually no. I got so pissed off I threw it in the garbage. I wasn’t pissed that it didn’t work. I was pissed at his attitude. I bought a superconductor adapter to match my headphone cable.


How is the sound of superconductor adapter comparing with jps standard adapter ?


----------



## ken6217

mat.1 said:


> How is the sound of superconductor adapter comparing with jps standard adapter ?



I never owned the standard cable. I bought the headphones with the Superconductor cable.


----------



## mat.1

ken6217 said:


> I never owned the standard cable. I bought the headphones with the Superconductor cable.


Oh ok. thx.
I just want to know the sound of the jps adapter Vs The Super Conductor adapter.


----------



## ken6217

mat.1 said:


> Oh ok. thx.
> I just want to know the sound of the jps adapter Vs The Super Conductor adapter.



It really isn’t a product per say. I had asked to have it made.

Even though they know that some people use speaker amps for their 1266, I think it might not necessarily be something that they condone. Using it can definitely be done safely, but the oft chance that something happens, they don’t want someone sending it in and saying my driver blew.


----------



## jamiekerr

I am currently considering buying a second hand pair of the original (non PHI) Ab-1266, and the seller has been completely honest and informed me about the "sleep" issue that a few people have reported, in that after a prolonged lack of use, one of the drivers will fail to "kick in" until a certain volume threshold is reached. The headphones are being offered at a great price, but it is a dilemma. Has anyone got any more information on this issue, as it seems not that uncommon after reading my way through the past 100 pages.

Thanks,
Jamie


----------



## lambdastorm

jamiekerr said:


> I am currently considering buying a second hand pair of the original (non PHI) Ab-1266, and the seller has been completely honest and informed me about the "sleep" issue that a few people have reported, in that after a prolonged lack of use, one of the drivers will fail to "kick in" until a certain volume threshold is reached. The headphones are being offered at a great price, but it is a dilemma. Has anyone got any more information on this issue, as it seems not that uncommon after reading my way through the past 100 pages.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jamie


Ask jps nicely and they will probably take care of it.


----------



## jamiekerr

lambdastorm said:


> Ask jps nicely and they will probably take care of it.



Ah, really? Good to hear that there are still companies out there that care for their brand and customers


----------



## jlbrach

jamiekerr said:


> I am currently considering buying a second hand pair of the original (non PHI) Ab-1266, and the seller has been completely honest and informed me about the "sleep" issue that a few people have reported, in that after a prolonged lack of use, one of the drivers will fail to "kick in" until a certain volume threshold is reached. The headphones are being offered at a great price, but it is a dilemma. Has anyone got any more information on this issue, as it seems not that uncommon after reading my way through the past 100 pages.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jamie


I have owned all the iterations of the 1266 including the original set and I never experienced anything like that


----------



## jamiekerr

jlbrach said:


> I have owned all the iterations of the 1266 including the original set and I never experienced anything like that



that is a fair comment, but I have read that a few have.


----------



## honeyjjack

zenworm said:


> Have about 10 hours so far on my brand new TC and have buzzing of left driver (only left, right is fine) on certain bass frequencies. Shows up in electronic/rap, songs like Fantasy by the xx at the 1:20 mark. Here's a video where you can hear the buzzing pretty clearly:
> 
> It's more pronounced if the left cup is farther away from my ear, but still there if it's close. I'm working with Joe on this right now and his recommendation was to continue the burn-in but wanted to see if anyone had seen (well, heard) anything like this before.



Hey i have the same issues. Left on mine too. Havent contacted abyss yet. I had meant to contact them then covid happened. Ive had the buzzing on some tracks and thought it was the track at first but it seemes to resonate at a specific frequency in bass heavy songs.


----------



## ken6217

honeyjjack said:


> Hey i have the same issues. Left on mine too. Havent contacted abyss yet. I had meant to contact them then covid happened. Ive had the buzzing on some tracks and thought it was the track at first but it seemes to resonate at a specific frequency in bass heavy songs.



Have you tried adjusting and repositioning and see if it goes away? If the headphone is too loose on your head this can happen too on certain songs.


----------



## honeyjjack

honeyjjack said:


> Hey i have the same issues. Left on mine too. Havent contacted abyss yet. I had meant to contact them then covid happened. Ive had the buzzing on some tracks and thought it was the track at first but it seemes to resonate at a specific frequency in bass heavy songs.


Im not too worried as im sure abyss will fix the issue for me. Its not like i bought $50 bose cans. Maybe ill shoot them an email and update on how it goes. Anyways. When i move back to the states(where i keep the ab1266) im planning to upgrade my amp. Currently using audio gd master 9. Budget of 6k. Reading posts here, contenders are sim 
Audio 600i, bakoon amp13r, wa5, and formula s. I know they would all be good choices but has anyone heard two or more of these?


----------



## honeyjjack

ken6217 said:


> Have you tried adjusting and repositioning and see if it goes away? If the headphone is too loose on your head this can happen too on certain songs.


I dont currently have them with me to fiddle around with but i do remember pushing the cups in towards my ears to check. Still had buzzing. The buzzing is quiet unlike bass distortion when taking headphones off while playong music. It is very annoying when it does happen tho. Pulls you out of the music.


----------



## zenworm

honeyjjack said:


> I dont currently have them with me to fiddle around with but i do remember pushing the cups in towards my ears to check. Still had buzzing. The buzzing is quiet unlike bass distortion when taking headphones off while playong music. It is very annoying when it does happen tho. Pulls you out of the music.



I had straight up driver buzzing even after breaking in at low volumes for close to 50 hours. Was bugging me on certain tracks and was able to pin it down by playing test tones in the 100-200hz range. This was not bass distortion this was a physical buzzing inside the left earcup. Happened with or without the pad on

Here’s a sample of what it sounded like: 

I had just purchased them so they ended up swapping me out. New pair is perfect.


----------



## honeyjjack

Oh mine doesnt buzz like that. Mine sounds like something inside the left cup, im guessing the film, is resonating to a certain frequncy. Kinda like when you blow on a peice of paper just the right way it buzzes.


----------



## zenworm

honeyjjack said:


> Oh mine doesnt buzz like that. Mine sounds like something inside the left cup, im guessing the film, is resonating to a certain frequncy. Kinda like when you blow on a peice of paper just the right way it buzzes.



Thats exactly how I would describe what mine was doing. The frequency would slightly change depending on the test tone. My guess was a loose screw somewhere causing the membrane to vibrate incorrectly or against something. I’ll never know for sure unless Joe updates me with what he found. 

Have you tried a 100Hz or 200z test tone?


----------



## honeyjjack

I remember when i did a freq sweep off of youtube, i didnt find anything. Just in very specific parts of specific songs. Ill email them and ask what they can do for me once i get them in my hands again.


----------



## ra990

It's most always the left earcup too. I went through a few pairs with this issue before I got a good one. Still curious what it was, especially because you see it pop up every few pages. Distortion/buzzing in the left ear cup at certain mid-to-high frequencies.


----------



## yagislav

For those of you who have the DAVE in the chain, do you guys prefer crossfeed 0,1,2, or 3 with the 1266TC?


----------



## 340519

Hi guys I'm looking at these. Hows the bass on them?


----------



## simorag

yagislav said:


> For those of you who have the DAVE in the chain, do you guys prefer crossfeed 0,1,2, or 3 with the 1266TC?



Hello, my vote is for CF=3 (maximum intensity). I was skeptical about it initially, and used CF=0 or CF=1 in order to preserve maximum signal integrity, then I have become addicted to CF and actually cannot listen anymore without it, unless it is a binaural recording.

The benefits are, to my ears, a much more naturalistic layout of the soundscape with especially a notably better sense of depth and cohesion between musicians.
Also, the sound is slightly warmer.

Downside are a slight loss in transparency and - as mentioned above - a light coloration towards the midbass / bass region.

To me the pros overweigh the cons by far.

As a side note, if you drive both headphones and loudspeakers with the DAVE, make sure to revert to CF=0 when using loudspeakers, otherwise the soundstage becomes a mess    



dmdm said:


> Hi guys I'm looking at these. Hows the bass on them?



Simply the best I have heard on a headphone. Fast, impactful, satisfyingly voluptuous yet still articulate and well defined. No bleed into other frequency ranges.


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Jun 17, 2020)

Apparently in the assembly process there was a lead wire out of place. Sh-t happens... Was an easy fix, sorry for the trouble.



zenworm said:


> Thats exactly how I would describe what mine was doing. The frequency would slightly change depending on the test tone. My guess was a loose screw somewhere causing the membrane to vibrate incorrectly or against something. I’ll never know for sure unless Joe updates me with what he found.
> 
> Have you tried a 100Hz or 200z test tone?


----------



## Ciggavelli

dmdm said:


> Hi guys I'm looking at these. Hows the bass on them?


The bass is extremely good. But, you need a good amp. I first tried the TCs on a Chord Hugo TT2. I thought the bass sounded good, but it wasn’t up to the level of my Foster th900s, in terms of quantity. Then I upgraded my headphone amp to the Woo Audio WA33s, and the TC bass got a lot better, in quality and quantity. With the WA33s, the bass on my TCs is better than any other headphone I’ve tried.


----------



## 340519

Ok I'm ordering a pair today. The lite versions as I dont need a bag.


----------



## 340519

Ciggavelli said:


> The bass is extremely good. But, you need a good amp. I first tried the TCs on a Chord Hugo TT2. I thought the bass sounded good, but it wasn’t up to the level of my Foster th900s, in terms of quantity. Then I upgraded my headphone amp to the Woo Audio WA33s, and the TC bass got a lot better, in quality and quantity. With the WA33s, the bass on my TCs is better than any other headphone I’ve tried.


Nah , I'm not into chord. I have a bryston bha1 which is my end game. I love bryston gear.


----------



## honeyjjack

dmdm said:


> Hi guys I'm looking at these. Hows the bass on them?


Sound like a tin can when underpowered. Feed it power, its better than any headphone ever created


----------



## 340519

honeyjjack said:


> Sound like a tin can when underpowered. Feed it power, its better than any headphone ever created


Well the bha 1 will do the trick. Six discrete class A amps.


----------



## ken6217

dmdm said:


> Hi guys I'm looking at these. Hows the bass on them?



Excellent. If you found your way on to this forum, and looking at headphones of this price, you should read some reviews. It will be helpful to you.


----------



## 340519

ken6217 said:


> Excellent. If you found your way on to this forum, and looking at headphones of this price, you should read some reviews. It will be helpful to you.


Actually I trust you guys over the reviews.


----------



## 340519

Ok all paid up. They are coming from New York


----------



## honeyjjack

dmdm said:


> Actually I trust you guys over the reviews.


The abyss were better than everything else ive heard so far. Empyreans are alot more comfortable but sounds a lil wonky to me, utopias are too closed in, orpheus has alot more emotion but doesnt have the punch. Unless you want something warm(orpheus and susvara) or hyper analytical(sr1a) nothing comes as close in being lifelike or speaker like. Sound very dynamic and wide. Fit normally isnt an issue if you dont have a pointy top( i do and used dekni nuggets to disperse the weight to the side) but they are on the heavy side and makes my neck hurt after an hour or so. I do have a long and skinny neck tho.


----------



## zenworm

dmdm said:


> Hi guys I'm looking at these. Hows the bass on them?



You won't find anything else quite like it. Very impactful. There are times when it can even be a little too much, depending on the track and your mood. I do find that overall I run the volume lower versus other cans.


----------



## 340519

zenworm said:


> You won't find anything else quite like it. Very impactful. There are times when it can even be a little too much, depending on the track and your mood. I do find that overall I run the volume lower versus other cans.


Awesome sounds right up my alley. Thanks


----------



## 340519

honeyjjack said:


> The abyss were better than everything else ive heard so far. Empyreans are alot more comfortable but sounds a lil wonky to me, utopias are too closed in, orpheus has alot more emotion but doesnt have the punch. Unless you want something warm(orpheus and susvara) or hyper analytical(sr1a) nothing comes as close in being lifelike or speaker like. Sound very dynamic and wide. Fit normally isnt an issue if you dont have a pointy top( i do and used dekni nuggets to disperse the weight to the side) but they are on the heavy side and makes my neck hurt after an hour or so. I do have a long and skinny neck tho.


Well I'm used to audeze so I should be ok. Although one night after falling asleep with the LCD 4s on I could move my head for 2 days lol.


----------



## wazzupi

dmdm said:


> Well I'm used to audeze so I should be ok. Although one night after falling asleep with the LCD 4s on I could move my head for 2 days lol.


lmao, I can't for the life of me bring myself to look like a frankeinstein experiment, but I have much respect for the headphone, Company I tried them at canjam 2018 and they were the best headphones there hands down.(besides a headphone that cost like 10+ times its price)


----------



## jlbrach

yagislav said:


> For those of you who have the DAVE in the chain, do you guys prefer crossfeed 0,1,2, or 3 with the 1266TC?


I experimented with the different crossfeed settings but ultimately decided to leave cross feed off entirely...in general I am not one for EQ or cross feed...


----------



## zenworm

wazzupi said:


> lmao, I can't for the life of me bring myself to look like a frankeinstein experiment, but I have much respect for the headphone, Company I tried them at canjam 2018 and they were the best headphones there hands down.(besides a headphone that cost like 10+ times its price)



Heard this a lot when researching, my thought is if I'm wearing headphones I'm not hanging out with anyone and I'm not standing in front of a mirror, so I don't care.


----------



## Ciggavelli

zenworm said:


> Heard this a lot when researching, my thought is if I'm wearing headphones I'm not hanging out with anyone and I'm not standing in front of a mirror, so I don't care.


Yeah, exactly.  Who cares what they look like?  My Susvaras look strange too.  I'm not trying to make a fashion statement when wearing headphones.  Plus, they are both open backs and leak sound like crazy.  Who is going to be around you when you listen to these headphones anyway?


----------



## 340519

zenworm said:


> Heard this a lot when researching, my thought is if I'm wearing headphones I'm not hanging out with anyone and I'm not standing in front of a mirror, so I don't care.


Exactly.


----------



## wazzupi

zenworm said:


> Heard this a lot when researching, my thought is if I'm wearing headphones I'm not hanging out with anyone and I'm not standing in front of a mirror, so I don't care.


its more like a feeling over a look to me, when I tried them on, the staff at the booth put it on for me and made sure it was on correctly. I can still remember how it felt, I believe if you own the headphone that you'll have this feeling but eventually get use to it. I was only making a joke, nothing to worry about you're getting the best headphones on the open market.


----------



## 340519

wazzupi said:


> its more like a feeling over a look to me, when I tried them on, the staff at the booth put it on for me and made sure it was on correctly. I can still remember how it felt, I believe if you own the headphone that you'll have this feeling but eventually get use to it. I was only making a joke, nothing to worry about you're getting the best headphones on the open market.


I agree they do look far out.


----------



## yagislav (Jun 17, 2020)

Has anybody had any experience driving the 1266TC's with the Mcintosh MHA100 or 150? Do you think it will have enough juice to drive these? I usually listen with the DAVE comfortably anywhere from -10db to -4db

The plan is to use the Mcintosh MHA with my easier to drive headphones since I have a dedicated headamp for the 1266, but was just curious if anybody had tried before with the 1266 and can give an impression


----------



## ken6217

Who’s gonna look at you when you wear them anyway? If it’s your wife, just tell her how much they cost, and she won’t be thinking about how it looks anymore.


----------



## ken6217

Double post


----------



## zenworm

ken6217 said:


> Who’s gonna look at you when you wear them anyway? If it’s your wife, just tell her how much they cost, and she won’t be thinking about how it looks anymore.



LOL. I want to live, I’ll pass on that


----------



## Kevxl

ken6217 said:


> Who’s gonna look at you when you wear them anyway? If it’s your wife, just tell her how much they cost, and she won’t be thinking about how it looks anymore.


No kidding. I actually put the TC back to it’s cloth bag and put them in another bigger silk bag and then put it in a closet drawer after every listen. I’m actually worry about wearing of the mini XLR connectors because I have to connect and disconnect them every time I listen.


----------



## MatW

Kevxl said:


> No kidding. I actually put the TC back to it’s cloth bag and put them in another bigger silk bag and then put it in a closet drawer after every listen. I’m actually worry about wearing of the mini XLR connectors because I have to connect and disconnect them every time I listen.


To hide them from your wife?


----------



## wazzupi

zenworm said:


> LOL. I want to live, I’ll pass on that


exactly LOL !


----------



## Kevxl

MatW said:


> To hide them from your wife?


Mostly, yes. And my 2 years old son who would be probably just lick it.


----------



## wazzupi

ken6217 said:


> Who’s gonna look at you when you wear them anyway? If it’s your wife, just tell her how much they cost, and she won’t be thinking about how it looks anymore.


no, she's going to be thinking of ways to buy something of higher value or how to make your life miserable for spending 5k on a headphone XD


----------



## MacedonianHero

yagislav said:


> For those of you who have the DAVE in the chain, do you guys prefer crossfeed 0,1,2, or 3 with the 1266TC?



I use Crossfeed 1. Tried them all, but settled on this.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jun 17, 2020)

MatW said:


> To hide them from your wife?


My wife thinks they're ugly... Probably why she's never asked how much they cost.

On the other hand when she saw my TH900s... The first thing she asked was... How much did you pay for those? Those highly polished ruby red cups with silver foil sure do look expensive.


----------



## attmci

Kevxl said:


> No kidding. I actually put the TC back to it’s cloth bag and put them in another bigger silk bag and then put it in a closet drawer after every listen. I’m actually worry about wearing of the mini XLR connectors because I have to connect and disconnect them every time I listen.


You don't have to do that.

I posted a "mod" of the headband a while ago which may help you.


----------



## phase0

yagislav said:


> For those of you who have the DAVE in the chain, do you guys prefer crossfeed 0,1,2, or 3 with the 1266TC?


I'm on TT2 not Dave. I prefer XFD0. I think if you had some older Jazz recording or something like that with mono mics and instruments hard panned 100% Left or Right in the recording is where Crossfeed can make it more enjoyable. Any modern recordings I prefer crossfeed off.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Jun 17, 2020)

zenworm said:


> Heard this a lot when researching, my thought is if I'm wearing headphones I'm not hanging out with anyone and I'm not standing in front of a mirror, so I don't care.



I can honestly say I don't care about the look, nobody will ever see me lol.

My issue is the fit. I had to bend the frame quite a bit to get them to sound right (distortion issue, smaller head here), so the force is bit much and they feel heavier than they probably are. They sound freaking amazing. I wish the vocals were very slightly more prominent/forward, but besides that the sound is perfection. The fit is an issue for me, but not enough to sale which does say a lot. If anyone has any insight on how to get great sound with a smaller-ish head, I'm all ears.


----------



## drew911d

I just received my Rooms stand also.  Pics just don't do this piece justice.  It is an extremely well crafted piece.  Beautiful, artful, and the most perfect fit for the Abyss.  No problems with cables at all.  Hangs by the frame to let the headband rest easy..  Very sturdy and well thought out.  Thanks Stefan!



Ciggavelli said:


> My Rooms Abyss 1266 headphone stand came in.  It's very high quality and good looking.  It's about as tall as my Woo Audio stands, when adjusted up.


----------



## Roasty

drew911d said:


> I just received my Rooms stand also.  Pics just don't do this piece justice.  It is an extremely well crafted piece.  Beautiful, artful, and the most perfect fit for the Abyss.  No problems with cables at all.  Hangs by the frame to let the headband rest easy..  Very sturdy and well thought out.  Thanks Stefan!



Can u check if the top mounts are perfectly level? Mine were not, tilting slightly downwards on one side, but solved by just wadding some paper into hole of the offending mount and screwing it down.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> Can u check if the top mounts are perfectly level? Mine were not, tilting slightly downwards on one side, but solved by just wadding some paper into hole of the offending mount and screwing it down.



I need to get a new headphone stand. My JPS Abyss stand fell on the carpet and broke. The bottom piece came off. I think I better cool it on the audio and invest in some soft carpet.


----------



## jlbrach

sounds like you needed the stand before it fell lol


----------



## MatW

number1sixerfan said:


> I can honestly say I don't care about the look, nobody will ever see me lol.
> 
> My issue is the fit. I had to bend the frame quite a bit to get them to sound right (distortion issue, smaller head here), so the force is bit much and they feel heavier than they probably are. They sound freaking amazing. I wish the vocals were very slightly more prominent/forward, but besides that the sound is perfection. The fit is an issue for me, but not enough to sale which does say a lot. If anyone has any insight on how to get great sound with a smaller-ish head, I'm all ears.


My head size is probably average in size, but I did a very easy mod with a ZMF pilot pad that works very well for me. See page 396 of this thread. I just wrapped the pilot pad around a string of black elastic hair bands, and that's it. I may glue it in place later, as the pad can still swivel, resulting in the thin side of the pad on your head, but the Room's stand is keeping it in place, so as long as you pay a little attention when you put the headphone on your head, it works fine as it is. If you have a small head, you could add some kind of padding inside the pilot pad to make it thicker, I guess. Because it will rest against the top of the headphone, the strings are not taut enough to suspend it. Or try the new ZMF co-pilot pad.


----------



## jamiekerr

drew911d said:


> I just received my Rooms stand also.  Pics just don't do this piece justice.  It is an extremely well crafted piece.  Beautiful, artful, and the most perfect fit for the Abyss.  No problems with cables at all.  Hangs by the frame to let the headband rest easy..  Very sturdy and well thought out.  Thanks Stefan!



May I ask where you purchased the stand from? I can see that headphoneauditions.nl supply it, but I was wondering if there was any UK sources as well?


----------



## StefanHAA

jamiekerr said:


> May I ask where you purchased the stand from? I can see that headphoneauditions.nl supply it, but I was wondering if there was any UK sources as well?


Hi Jamie, I'm Stefan from Headphone Auditions Amsterdam. Thank you for showing interest in the stand. Christian from ROOMS designed the stand to my specs and I'm the only one selling it. Please contact me on stefan@headphoneauditions.nl , I have currently 2 units left in stock. Cheers from Amsterdam!


----------



## jamiekerr

StefanHAA said:


> Hi Jamie, I'm Stefan from Headphone Auditions Amsterdam. Thank you for showing interest in the stand. Christian from ROOMS designed the stand to my specs and I'm the only one selling it. Please contact me on stefan@headphoneauditions.nl , I have currently 2 units left in stock. Cheers from Amsterdam!



Thank you Stefan! I am meant to be getting my set tomorrow so I will be in touch over the weekend


----------



## StefanHAA

jamiekerr said:


> Thank you Stefan! I am meant to be getting my set tomorrow so I will be in touch over the weekend


Perfect, no stress, I'll put one unit aside for you till Monday or so!


----------



## 340519

drew911d said:


> I just received my Rooms stand also.  Pics just don't do this piece justice.  It is an extremely well crafted piece.  Beautiful, artful, and the most perfect fit for the Abyss.  No problems with cables at all.  Hangs by the frame to let the headband rest easy..  Very sturdy and well thought out.  Thanks Stefan!


Very nice.


----------



## 340519

ken6217 said:


> I need to get a new headphone stand. My JPS Abyss stand fell on the carpet and broke. The bottom piece came off. I think I better cool it on the audio and invest in some soft carpet.


Eeeek headphones okay?


----------



## ken6217

dmdm said:


> Eeeek headphones okay?


The headphones weren't on it


----------



## 340519

ken6217 said:


> The headphones weren't on it


Oh good. Phew.


----------



## ken6217

dmdm said:


> Oh good. Phew.



Thanks.


----------



## wazzupi (Jun 18, 2020)

dmdm said:


> Oh good. Phew.


I dont know they survived a jeep running over them I think they'll survive a fall.

PS i wouldn't risk it doe !!!! lmao


----------



## 340519

wazzupi said:


> I dont know they survived a jeep running over them I think they'll survive a fall


Very true


----------



## 340519

I was just told that they build the 1266 from scratch so I won't have them In hand for 4 weeks. Bummer.


----------



## stemiki

Hi guys 

I received my new Abyss a few days ago. I can only say that I am fully satisfied with the result. The amount of micro details, full beautiful bass and soundstage is impressive. 

They pair very well with the Benchmark HPA4 amplifier and Metrum dac.

Thanks Abyss team, I'm very Happy!


----------



## stemiki

Now I understand the reason for this shape of the frame, which seems bizarre when you see it!

All the possibilities of adjustments on the head: farther or closer to the ears to have drier or fuller basses depending on the type of music we listen to or 

closing the frame a little forward to change the headstage.

There is certainly a brilliant mind behind this project.

How Cool!


----------



## 340519

stemiki said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I received my new Abyss a few days ago. I can only say that I am fully satisfied with the result. The amount of micro details, full beautiful bass and soundstage is impressive.
> 
> ...


How long did it take to get them after ordering? Thanks


----------



## drew911d

I looked at my Room stand just now after returning from work, and sure enough the top piece was slanted to one side.  I found that it was my fault though.

In my excitement to get it put together, I didn't notice the washer that was sticking to the anti spin layer where the top piece is inserted.  I found it when I took it apart.  After placing the washer appropiately and reassembling, the top is perfectly level.




Roasty said:


> Can u check if the top mounts are perfectly level? Mine were not, tilting slightly downwards on one side, but solved by just wadding some paper into hole of the offending mount and screwing it down.


----------



## stemiki

dmdm said:


> How long did it take to get them after ordering? Thanks



Hi, they were ready for delivery, seller in the EU area.


----------



## 340519 (Jun 19, 2020)

I also have a smsl sp200 888 thx that I'm going to use with the abyss in my bedroom setup, while my main amp will be the bryston bha1. I have an icon audio hp8 mk2 in my bedroom as well,  but I'm not sure it will drive the abyss.
The bryston audio circle forum has people driving the abyss with the bha1 and they seem happy.


----------



## 340519

stemiki said:


> Hi, they were ready for delivery, seller in the EU area.


Well the wait will make the experience even more rewarding. The sony z7s show up today and I have gotten a crap ton of headphones in the last month, so a little reprieve might be in order.


----------



## number1sixerfan

MatW said:


> My head size is probably average in size, but I did a very easy mod with a ZMF pilot pad that works very well for me. See page 396 of this thread. I just wrapped the pilot pad around a string of black elastic hair bands, and that's it. I may glue it in place later, as the pad can still swivel, resulting in the thin side of the pad on your head, but the Room's stand is keeping it in place, so as long as you pay a little attention when you put the headphone on your head, it works fine as it is. If you have a small head, you could add some kind of padding inside the pilot pad to make it thicker, I guess. Because it will rest against the top of the headphone, the strings are not taut enough to suspend it. Or try the new ZMF co-pilot pad.



Meant to say thank you. I checked that out and it looks interesting. The band/pad now is actually just fine, it's the pressure of the cups in order for there not to be a gap between the cups behind my ears which lead to distortion.

With all of that said, I'm just living with it for now as these sound so damn good lol


----------



## MatW

Ok, yeah I don't know how to fix them still being too wide when they are at their narrowest. I'm fairly new to this headphone, so can you explain the distortion issue? I thought these were meant to have a break in the seal?


----------



## jamiekerr

Picked up my headphones today (second hand) and running them via a moon 430. Wow. I feel like I am listening to freestanding speakers. Wonderful. I was wondering those with the moon 430, what sort of volume levels you use when listening. Also I feel the headphones would feel more comfortable if they sat a little higher, can you get a stiffer headband, or anyone have any tips?


----------



## Bonddam

MatW said:


> Ok, yeah I don't know how to fix them still being too wide when they are at their narrowest. I'm fairly new to this headphone, so can you explain the distortion issue? I thought these were meant to have a break in the seal?


Just so you don't get discouraged, it took me a long time to find my setting. My setting is somewhat pulled out bent in. The pads touch with small gap in the rear. If I push the pads in making it more then touch I loose the bass they are known for. You do not need air gap all the way around. I can slide them up down and around and the pads touch. I tired them with more of a gap and didn't like it. 
They Distorted when fully extended and didn't sound correct. To far out and the drivers start to over extend. I noticed that you shouldn't have music playing when off the head as they distort.


----------



## Bonddam

jamiekerr said:


> Picked up my headphones today (second hand) and running them via a moon 430. Wow. I feel like I am listening to freestanding speakers. Wonderful. I was wondering those with the moon 430, what sort of volume levels you use when listening. Also I feel the headphones would feel more comfortable if they sat a little higher, can you get a stiffer headband, or anyone have any tips?


I bought padding that is very thin and I added layers to about 1/2 inch. This was part of getting perfect fit. I purchased felt off Amazon that has peal and stick on one side. I don't have to widen the headband to get a higher fit. My ears barely touch the bottom of the pads, no touching on top of my ears.


----------



## jamiekerr

Bonddam said:


> I bought padding that is very thin and I added layers to about 1/2 inch. This was part of getting perfect fit. I purchased felt off Amazon that has peal and stick on one side. I don't have to widen the headband to get a higher fit. My ears barely touch the bottom of the pads, no touching on top of my ears.


Good idea! Thank you


----------



## 340519

So these are supposed to seal around the ears or is there supposed to be space between the ears and the pads?


----------



## 340519

Bonddam said:


> I bought padding that is very thin and I added layers to about 1/2 inch. This was part of getting perfect fit. I purchased felt off Amazon that has peal and stick on one side. I don't have to widen the headband to get a higher fit. My ears barely touch the bottom of the pads, no touching on top of my ears.


Do you have a link to the padding?


----------



## Bonddam

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0777DPHXS/?tag=amazonsto0879-20


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jun 19, 2020)

dmdm said:


> So these are supposed to seal around the ears or is there supposed to be space between the ears and the pads?


A full seal will lower the bass.  For me,  a loose seal, or even the front slightly separated from my head is great.  If you go too far, you'll get distortion.  So it's kinda a balancing act, depending on the genre and the recording.


----------



## ken6217

dmdm said:


> So these are supposed to seal around the ears or is there supposed to be space between the ears and the pads?



not a tight seal. A little on the moose side just touching your face. If you go back through the thread, or someone else might know where it is, Joe has two videos on how to make the adjustments for the sound that you prefer. Check it out, they’re good.


----------



## MatW

Here are the links:


----------



## koven

ken6217 said:


> A little on the moose side just touching your face.



Mm, moose side indeed!


----------



## drew911d

Just had a vibration in my right side driver.  Have never had this problem for the 2.6 years I've had them.  Also heard a crinkling sound putting them on without power.  Air pressure causing the driver film to move.  Looking closely I found one of my dog's hairs sticking into the mesh inside the outer grill.  Must've been touching the driver, because after I pulled it out problem solved.

On another note (is that a pun?), I finally added the Oyaide silver BNC cables with solid core ferrites.  I made these 1.5 meters long to space the units further apart.  Smoothed the sound more without any loss of precision.  Very worthy upgrade.  What noise floor?


----------



## ken6217

koven said:


> Mm, moose side indeed!


I just saw my post as I typed it on my phone earlier. I was going to edit it but then if I did then your picture wouldn’t make any sense. LOL.


----------



## Kevxl

drew911d said:


> On another note (is that a pun?), I finally added the Oyaide silver BNC cables with solid core ferrites. I made these 1.5 meters long to space the units further apart.


May I get a link for those ferrite cores you bought? How did you determine the frequency? Is that spacers in between the ferrites?


----------



## koven

drew911d said:


> Just had a vibration in my right side driver.  Have never had this problem for the 2.6 years I've had them.  Also heard a crinkling sound putting them on without power.  Air pressure causing the driver film to move.  Looking closely I found one of my dog's hairs sticking into the mesh inside the outer grill.  Must've been touching the driver, because after I pulled it out problem solved.
> 
> On another note (is that a pun?), I finally added the Oyaide silver BNC cables with solid core ferrites.  I made these 1.5 meters long to space the units further apart.  Smoothed the sound more without any loss of precision.  Very worthy upgrade.  What noise floor?



Oh man, well done, hire a marketing copywriter and you can give WAVE cables a run for their money.


----------



## drew911d (Jun 19, 2020)

Thanks! 

Nick is a nice guy and he did a lot of research to come up with his cables.  I can't say if my diy job equals his professional cables.  I still defer to him for anybody not willing or able to make their own.

But, WOW.  The improvement these cables made is really sinking in over these last few hours.  I have Rolling Stone's DSD of Time Is On My Side.  An early production, and quite harsh.  Not like their later recordings.  Now I can enjoy it without having to turn the volume way down.  Everything is improved.



koven said:


> Oh man, well done, hire a marketing copywriter and you can give WAVE cables a run for their money.


----------



## 340519

koven said:


> Mm, moose side indeed!


Lol I thought that was hilarious. Very Canadian lol.


----------



## MacedonianHero

dmdm said:


> Lol I thought that was hilarious. Very Canadian lol.



You mean "Very Canadian 'eh"?


----------



## 340519

MacedonianHero said:


> You mean "Very Canadian 'eh"?


Yup ya hoser!


----------



## MacedonianHero

dmdm said:


> Yup ya hoser!



Take off 'eh.


----------



## drew911d

MacedonianHero said:


> Take off 'eh.


Brewer Bros unite!


----------



## Marco_tam

jamiekerr said:


> Picked up my headphones today (second hand) and running them via a moon 430. Wow. I feel like I am listening to freestanding speakers. Wonderful. I was wondering those with the moon 430, what sort of volume levels you use when listening. Also I feel the headphones would feel more comfortable if they sat a little higher, can you get a stiffer headband, or anyone have any tips?



With high gain, most of the time I stay at 48-52. But sometimes the music is so good you want to keep turning it up just to feel a little more, haha.


----------



## phase0

Got my Wave Stream BNC cables today and my 1266 TC on Monday.  I have to take a trip so sometime in a week or two I'll probably list my 1266 Phi for sale.


----------



## jamiekerr

Marco_tam said:


> With high gain, most of the time I stay at 48-52. But sometimes the music is so good you want to keep turning it up just to feel a little more, haha.



interesting, at 48 they seem quite quiet. I’m not the type of person to listen to music very loudly but I felt I needed to go to around 55 to really enjoy it fully. I am worried at what level would be “bad” for the phones?


----------



## MatW

jamiekerr said:


> interesting, at 48 they seem quite quiet. I’m not the type of person to listen to music very loudly but I felt I needed to go to around 55 to really enjoy it fully. I am worried at what level would be “bad” for the phones?


I would worry more about what's bad for your ears.


----------



## jamiekerr

MatW said:


> I would worry more about what's bad for your ears.



I get that if I was playing it loud. But to give a comparison, I’m never over 70% volume on my AirPod headphones when out walking. I don’t have music loud, maybe it is subjective but just feel the abyss are relatively quiet at 48


----------



## MatW

I don't know the amp, but I think your ears give out before the headphone does... Btw, I was wondering at what level I'm listening some time ago. I downloaded a free app, decibel x, and measured the volume by placing the phone in an earcup. Not very precise, but it's an indication. Turns out I'm listening at around 65 db, which is ok. I do turn up the volume occasionally, but not for prolonged periods.


----------



## jamiekerr (Jun 20, 2020)

MatW said:


> I don't know the amp, but I think your ears give out before the headphone does... Btw, I was wondering at what level I'm listening some time ago. I downloaded a free app, decibel x, and measured the volume by placing the phone in an earcup. Not very precise, but it's an indication. Turns out I'm listening at around 65 db, which is ok. I do turn up the volume occasionally, but not for prolonged periods.


 60 seems a decent setting on the moon, I  not sure if that is measured in decibels though

edit: it is measured in dB


----------



## MatW

I would check the listening volume with the app in any case, for some peace of mind.  
I'm always confused by the volume dials. E.g. On the TT2 I listen to the 1266 at a volume of -30 to -20 in high gain. I wonder what kind of scale that is, and what 0 is. Anyone?


----------



## Energy

Sharing this ‘custom’ headphone stand with headphone cable holder that I pieced together for the incoming Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC  .











The black color synergize well with the AB-1266,  while the dual cable mount allows for end game cable designs that separate left and right audio signals. It is perfect for those wishing to use heftier cables. The ones that use larger wires or require the overall cable to be separate so that additional shielding can be applied.


----------



## ken6217

jamiekerr said:


> interesting, at 48 they seem quite quiet. I’m not the type of person to listen to music very loudly but I felt I needed to go to around 55 to really enjoy it fully. I am worried at what level would be “bad” for the phones?



Does your amp have the DAC built in? If not, maybe the output voltage of your DAC is not very high and that’s why your listening at a louder number on your amp.

Don't worry that your listening at a louder level and you will damage the headphones. You won’t.


----------



## jamiekerr

ken6217 said:


> Does your amp have the DAC built in? If not, maybe the output voltage of your DAC is not very high and that’s why your listening at a louder number on your amp.
> 
> Don't worry that your listening at a louder level and you will damage the headphones. You won’t.



hi, I do have the dac, but currently all sources are fed into the dac on my moon 340 integrated amp and this is connected to my 430 by RCA’s. However when plugged directly into the 430 I don’t notice any volume differences.

so you would think that 60 to 65 on the430 would be in the acceptable range?


----------



## jamiekerr

Firing another question out there  when positioned on my grad, my headband Is literally touching the frame which means the ear ups are lower on my head than I would like. I am guessing from new the headband should allow some distance between the frame?


----------



## ken6217

jamiekerr said:


> hi, I do have the dac, but currently all sources are fed into the dac on my moon 340 integrated amp and this is connected to my 430 by RCA’s. However when plugged directly into the 430 I don’t notice any volume differences.
> 
> so you would think that 60 to 65 on the430 would be in the acceptable range?



I think you’ll hurt your ears before the headphones. What is the highest number on the volume dial out of curiousity?


----------



## ken6217

So you can plug the DAC into the HA430, or into the preamp and then to the HA430 and the volume is same? What type of digital cable are you using?


----------



## jamiekerr

ken6217 said:


> I think you’ll hurt your ears before the headphones. What is the highest number on the volume dial out of curiousity?


I believe it is 80


----------



## jamiekerr

ken6217 said:


> So you can plug the DAC into the HA430, or into the preamp and then to the HA430 and the volume is same? What type of digital cable are you using?


Ansuz RCA cables.


----------



## ken6217

jamiekerr said:


> Ansuz RCA cables.



Is that a digital cable? You said cables in plural. There is only only digital cable from DAC to the amp.


----------



## jamiekerr

ken6217 said:


> Is that a digital cable? You said cables in plural. There is only only digital cable from DAC to the amp.



sorry, I just meant across my system as a whole, I use Ansuz. I have a digital from the cd into my 340 integrated amp. Then a set of Ansuz rca from the 340 integrated amp into my 430 headphone amp.


----------



## Marco_tam

jamiekerr said:


> interesting, at 48 they seem quite quiet. I’m not the type of person to listen to music very loudly but I felt I needed to go to around 55 to really enjoy it fully. I am worried at what level would be “bad” for the phones?



55 is totally normal. Sometimes, depending on the recordings, I have to go over 60 in order to let the music shine. But don't worry too much about numbers, I'd suggest you just keep turning it up until you feel it's the best to listen to. After all, it's your feeling that matters.


----------



## ken6217

jamiekerr said:


> sorry, I just meant across my system as a whole, I use Ansuz. I have a digital from the cd into my 340 integrated amp. Then a set of Ansuz rca from the 340 integrated amp into my 430 headphone amp.



Gotcha. You can try as an experiment, if you can get your hands on a pair of XLR cables, and swapping out your RCA cables. You should get 6 dB more volume using XLR, and therefore the volume dial numerically will be at a lower level. In the end, the volume should sound the same to you just a different position on the dial.


----------



## jamiekerr

Marco_tam said:


> 55 is totally normal. Sometimes, depending on the recordings, I have to go over 60 in order to let the music shine. But don't worry too much about numbers, I'd suggest you just keep turning it up until you feel it's the best to listen to. After all, it's your feeling that matters.


Thank you


----------



## jamiekerr

ken6217 said:


> Gotcha. You can try as an experiment, if you can get your hands on a pair of XLR cables, and swapping out your RCA cables. You should get 6 dB more volume using XLR, and therefore the volume dial numerically will be at a lower level. In the end, the volume should sound the same to you just a different position on the dial.


Interesting. I didn’t even consider that


----------



## Marco_tam

jamiekerr said:


> Interesting. I didn’t even consider that



For 430HA, I strongly recommend you go for XLR instead of RCA. I still remember the shock I had when I swapped from RCA to XLR. It's like unleashing its full potential!!


----------



## ken6217

Marco_tam said:


> For 430HA, I strongly recommend you go for XLR instead of RCA. I still remember the shock I had when I swapped from RCA to XLR. It's like unleashing its full potential!!



If for nothing else, you typically will get a larger soundstage with balanced cables.


----------



## jamiekerr

ken6217 said:


> If for nothing else, you typically will get a larger soundstage with balanced cables.



this will be race to XLR though, so it would be be balanced :/


----------



## ken6217

jamiekerr said:


> this will be race to XLR though, so it would be be balanced :/


Not sure what you mean, but XLR cables are balanced.


----------



## jamiekerr

ken6217 said:


> Not sure what you mean, but XLR cables are balanced.



I don’t have XLR outputs on my integrated amp, only analog phono outs.so I cannot use XLR to XLR cables. Only phono to XLR


----------



## ken6217

jamiekerr said:


> I don’t have XLR outputs on my integrated amp, only analog phono outs.so I cannot use XLR to XLR cables. Only phono to XLR



Gotcha.


----------



## jamiekerr

ken6217 said:


> Gotcha.



and that is where I am strugglin. Ideally I would have separate inputs on both amps, but my cd and network players only have one digital out.


----------



## ken6217

Why dont you try as an experiment going digital straight from the CD player to there HA430, and also the streamer just to see how it sounds compared to through the preamp, and to see if it plays louder?

Go USB into the HA430 and RCA (spdif) digital into the HA430. It looks like you can do both at the same time and switch inputs on the front panel of the 430.


----------



## Mikey99

I have been happy with my XI audio Formula S / Powerman combo with my AB1266TCs. But today I finally sat down and really listened to the Riviera AIC10. It had a beautiful, rich sound compared to the XI audio stack, which while good was a bit clinical in comparison.  The Riviera was definitely more musical. I particularly noticed it when I listened to familiar Joni Mitchell vocals - I don’t think I ever heard her sound so good.

I am therefore thinking of pulling the trigger on the Riviera. I am interested in what others think of it with the AB1266 TCs. 

i am also intrigued by the Riviera’s potential to drive my Avantgarde Duo speakers. That might just push me over the edge. Has anyone had experience with them driving speakers?


----------



## jamiekerr

ken6217 said:


> Why dont you try as an experiment going digital straight from the CD player to there HA430, and also the streamer just to see how it sounds compared to through the preamp, and to see if it plays louder?
> 
> Go USB into the HA430 and RCA (spdif) digital into the HA430. It looks like you can do both at the same time and switch inputs on the front panel of the 430.



I have tried and didn’t notice much difference if any with going directly into the 430. I haven’t tried USB though


----------



## Jon L (Jun 20, 2020)

Mikey99 said:


> I have been happy with my XI audio Formula S / Powerman combo with my AB1266TCs. But today I finally sat down and really listened to the Riviera AIC10. It had a beautiful, rich sound compared to the XI audio stack, which while good was a bit clinical in comparison.  The Riviera was definitely more musical. I particularly noticed it when I listened to familiar Joni Mitchell vocals - I don’t think I ever heard her sound so good.
> 
> I am therefore thinking of pulling the trigger on the Riviera. I am interested in what others think of it with the AB1266 TCs.
> 
> i am also intrigued by the Riviera’s potential to drive my Avantgarde Duo speakers. That might just push me over the edge. Has anyone had experience with them driving speakers?



I didn't realize the Riviera AIC10 costs 15,490 Euros.
As a Raal SR1a and AB1266TC user, the Riviera AIC10 and Raal HSA1a amp seem to have some similarities to me. Both are 10 watts/8 Ohms Class-A solid state amplifiers, with AIC10 having one 12AU7 tube hybrid stage.  Both are meant to drive headphones but still offer speaker outputs.  And they both have similar shape/form factor.
It would be interesting to try the Susvara/Abyss and some nice speakers on AIC10 and HSA1a


----------



## jlbrach (Jun 20, 2020)

Mikey99 said:


> Riviera AIC10


I have been using the formula s/powerman combo with my abyss TC and I must say the riviera must be some incredible amp to better it by much because the formula s with the TC is simply wonderful but I notice it is multiples more expensive so perhaps it is...the formula s/powerman combo costs around 5500 dollars while the riviera costs about 18,000 so.....


----------



## phase0

Mikey99 said:


> I have been happy with my XI audio Formula S / Powerman combo with my AB1266TCs. But today I finally sat down and really listened to the Riviera AIC10. It had a beautiful, rich sound compared to the XI audio stack, which while good was a bit clinical in comparison. The Riviera was definitely more musical. I particularly noticed it when I listened to familiar Joni Mitchell vocals - I don’t think I ever heard her sound so good.
> 
> I am therefore thinking of pulling the trigger on the Riviera. I am interested in what others think of it with the AB1266 TCs.



I'm curious to hear more opinions on this too. Someone recommended I try out the Riviera AIC10. I probably won't due to the high cost and that I am pretty happy where I am at. If it's amazing as a combo I'd be interested to see some more in depth reviews/considerations on the combo.


----------



## onlychild (Jun 20, 2020)

Mikey99 said:


> I have been happy with my XI audio Formula S / Powerman combo with my AB1266TCs. But today I finally sat down and really listened to the Riviera AIC10. It had a beautiful, rich sound compared to the XI audio stack, which while good was a bit clinical in comparison.  The Riviera was definitely more musical. I particularly noticed it when I listened to familiar Joni Mitchell vocals - I don’t think I ever heard her sound so good.
> 
> I am therefore thinking of pulling the trigger on the Riviera. I am interested in what others think of it with the AB1266 TCs.
> 
> i am also intrigued by the Riviera’s potential to drive my Avantgarde Duo speakers. That might just push me over the edge. Has anyone had experience with them driving speakers?


I’ve had my Riviera AFC-10 for a few weeks now and absolutely love it!  It’s the power amp version of the AIC-10 which I’ve paired with the DAVE.  The DAVE has one of the best preamps and volume controls of any equipment I’ve owned so I wanted to utilize that.  It’s only about $300-$500 cheaper than the AIC so at that point it’s not really about the cost savings considering the total expense.  My dealer did mention that there are a few other DAVE owners running the same setup and the AFC provides a  bit lower noise floor and a bit more of the great DAVE transparency (vs AIC) since the signal is going through one less preamp and volume control, a shorter and cleaner signal path. 

The resale value will probably be lower for the AFC (vs AIC) but for me the trade off on having better sound was worth it, especially if you are a DAVE owner.  

Also, I’ve read that the TC and Susvara sound much better out of the speaker taps of the Riviera, so that is something else to consider.


----------



## 340519 (Jun 21, 2020)

Anyone use the spl phonitor mini with the 1266? How is it?

Nevermind, I'll stick with the smsl thx.


----------



## simorag (Jun 21, 2020)

Mikey99 said:


> I have been happy with my XI audio Formula S / Powerman combo with my AB1266TCs. But today I finally sat down and really listened to the Riviera AIC10. It had a beautiful, rich sound compared to the XI audio stack, which while good was a bit clinical in comparison.  The Riviera was definitely more musical. I particularly noticed it when I listened to familiar Joni Mitchell vocals - I don’t think I ever heard her sound so good.
> 
> I am therefore thinking of pulling the trigger on the Riviera. I am interested in what others think of it with the AB1266 TCs.
> 
> i am also intrigued by the Riviera’s potential to drive my Avantgarde Duo speakers. That might just push me over the edge. Has anyone had experience with them driving speakers?



Hi Mike, I think the AIC-10 pairing with the TC is - to use the usual worn out audiophile cliché - a match made in heaven.

I listened to it during my multiple month quest of my endgame amp for the AB-1266 and fell immediately in love with it, but - not being able to afford it at retail price - I kept on researching, trying several other amplifiers in the range of 10-20kUSD. No other amp I tried had the synergy with the TC (to my taste of course) I found with the AIC-10, especially paired with a Mullard NOS tube (or a Marconi, or a Fivre). I have already waxed poetics about this in other older posts, so I won't repeat myself here  ...

I grabbed a 2nd hand unit luckily popped out when I was still on the market, and have been using the AIC-10 since several months now, mainly driving the TC with the XLR out and the SR1a through the speaker taps, but very recently I tried using an XLR to banana adapter to drive the TC via the taps and I am impressed about the additional soundstage size (3D), bass extension, speed and control. I would recommend to try that option and check how you like it.



Lastly, I am occasionally using the AIC-10 to drive my LS3/5a which are a much harder load than your fantastic Avantgarde, and the AIC-10 can push my Spendor to a satisfying level at least in my smallish room.
Be aware that the 10W rating is VERY conservative, so you should be able to enjoy your Duo at best with the AIC-10 both in terms of power and sound signature. So much so that Riviera Labs is often showcasing the AIC-10 in combination with horn loudspeakers at shows, and typically gets stellar feedback.


----------



## Jon L

simorag said:


> the SR1a through the speaker taps, but very recently I tried using an XLR to banana adapter to drive the TC via the taps and I am impressed about the additional


The 10 watt rating may be conservative, but Riviera AIC-10 is able to drive Raal SR1a via impedance box to satisfyingly loud levels??


----------



## simorag

Jon L said:


> The 10 watt rating may be conservative, but Riviera AIC-10 is able to drive Raal SR1a via impedance box to satisfyingly loud levels??



The AIC-10 is able to drive the SR1a only within a limited range of situations, due to a severe lack of power.
And this is a pity, because as long as tonality is concerned, the AIC-10 (again with a warm-ish tube like a Mullard NOS) is a beautiful companion for the SR1a.

The good thing is that the Riviera can handle the SR1a for the genres where - to my ears - the SR1a are more talented. Baroque, chamber, solo stringed instruments, small jazz ensembles, acoustic music in general, vocals etc. - if the recording level is not too quiet and at my listening volumes (typically <80dB SPL) - are rendered very well, for example.

For large scale classical, grand piano, rock, electronic music (not to mention hip-hop), the AB-1266 cannot be touched by the SR1a for my tastes. I have spent a few months auditioning amplifiers for the SR1a, most of them were in the 120-250W rated power and some of them from the upper echelon (Audio Research, Nagra, DarTZeel) and, while performing _much _better than with my AIC-10, I was simply still enjoying the Abyss more for all those genres.

This is why I stopped researching the ultimate amp for the SR1a (at least for now ), and decided to keep them as secondary / specialized headphones to complement my daily driver, the TC.


----------



## BPED

I am another very happy owner of the Riviera AIC-10 which I use with my TC and Utopia. I bought it second hand a month ago and I plan to write a more elaborate review in the near future (shouldn't we open a dedicated thread for this amp?).

It is a fantastic amp capable of driving difficult headphones like the Abyss as well as sensitive ones like the Focal. I love the fact that by changing a single ECC82 valve I can change significantly its sound signature (hence it is difficult to say how it sounds – it depends). I am having a great time with few NOS right now. If you plan to buy a Riviera, do budget some extra money to equip it with great NOS!

With reference to the TC and alternative more affordable amps, I can offer my limited experience. I previously heard a pair of CC driven by an Audio DG (master 9, I believe) and I extensively compared the Riviera with my Dave. The first has power, the latter transparency and refinement. The Riviera has both! And depending on the ECC82 you can emphasize speed/transparency/details vs body/3D effect/warmth.

I listen to jazz and classical music and I never heard before such a satisfactory reproduction of acoustic instruments with regards to tone, sound texture, physical impact, size and scene.

Other types of music (e.g. pop) may not require the finesse of the Riviera to squeeze the max out of the Abyss. For my taste and music choices this is pure bliss!


----------



## zenworm

Pulled the trigger on the Room's stand. It's stupid expensive but one-of-a-kind. After reading about the headband issues I've been nervous about leaving them on the stand all the time, now that's no longer a concern. This thing is very well built and a perfect design for the 1266.


----------



## F208Frank

Anyone here feel that the DAVE by itself powers the 1266 decently or no chance at all?


----------



## BPED

F208Frank said:


> Anyone here feel that the DAVE by itself powers the 1266 decently or no chance at all?



Hi Frank, looking at your signature you seem very well equipped to drive the TC...
Anyway, I asked the same question to many people some months ago and most told me "yes it can, but it depends on your taste/musical choices". I agree with that. In my case I bought a TC only when I was sure I could add an amp later on if needed (which I did, as I wrote recently in this thread). 

Dave alone + TC with stock cable may also be a bit on the bright side for some. Dave + M Scaler + TC + SC cable would certainly offer a more relaxed but still very detailed/transparent listening experience. Crossfeed may also help you to compensate if you like it (I don't).
In short my personal take is: Dave is good for pop, most of rock with bass in evidence. Unless you want super bass you will be fine with those genres. For jazz, small acoustic bands, Dave may be a little thin depending on the recording but still good. For symphonic classical music, Dave is not enough: both volume and physical feeling of the orchestra's sections are lacking.
If you add a very transparent amp you may end up very close to the sound signature of the Dave alone, with a nice reserve of volume.


----------



## 340519

zenworm said:


> Pulled the trigger on the Room's stand. It's stupid expensive but one-of-a-kind. After reading about the headband issues I've been nervous about leaving them on the stand all the time, now that's no longer a concern. This thing is very well built and a perfect design for the 1266.


I'm just going lay it on my ottoman like all the rest of my cans. Cheap and effective.


----------



## 340519

I just bought another Bryston BHA1 directly from Bryston for the TCs. One for my main setup and the other for the bedroom. It is definitely my favorite amp of all time, and it's gorgeous too.


----------



## F208Frank

BPED said:


> Hi Frank, looking at your signature you seem very well equipped to drive the TC...
> Anyway, I asked the same question to many people some months ago and most told me "yes it can, but it depends on your taste/musical choices". I agree with that. In my case I bought a TC only when I was sure I could add an amp later on if needed (which I did, as I wrote recently in this thread).
> 
> Dave alone + TC with stock cable may also be a bit on the bright side for some. Dave + M Scaler + TC + SC cable would certainly offer a more relaxed but still very detailed/transparent listening experience. Crossfeed may also help you to compensate if you like it (I don't).
> ...


Thanks!


----------



## koven

F208Frank said:


> Anyone here feel that the DAVE by itself powers the 1266 decently or no chance at all?



How come you sold your WA33?


----------



## F208Frank (Jun 24, 2020)

I posted it 4 months ago or so and never updated and intended to keep. Buyer messaged me out of the blue and I mentioned I would not consider selling unless he/she was in the same state as I, basically brushing it off.

They happened to miraculously live in NY as well and when stuck with the choice to sell or not, I listened to the WA33 multiple times, pacing back and forth inside my own room like a mad man for about 1 hour. I decided to let it go as my business is falling apart and need to shift into "lean" mentality.

Truly an amazing piece of audio gear I had the blessings to own. I have just listed my JPS Power Cord/JPS XLR interconnect cables for sale that were companions of the WA33, both of which were bought brand new from authorized dealer with receipts provided.

The positive part of the experience was that the buyer seemed to be a genuine guy and was really nice, so glad it found a new home.


----------



## koven

F208Frank said:


> I cried a tear almost and was holding it in even at point of sale, that amp is the most amazing amp I personally came across.
> 
> I posted it 4 months ago or so and never updated and intended to keep. Buyer messaged me out of the blue and I mentioned I would not consider selling unless he/she was in the same state as I, basically brushing it off.
> 
> ...



Ah man sorry to hear that, hope your business bounces back.


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## F208Frank (Jun 24, 2020)

koven said:


> Ah man sorry to hear that, hope your business bounces back.


=) Thanks, but do not feel bad for me! I was lucky to even have owned it for a period of time. 1st world problems all day, haha. Appreciate you though!

Though for sure the Abyss sounds better out of the WA33, it sounds "decent" straight out of the DAVE, so I'll live with that for a while.


----------



## EndGameSearch

I’m sure it has been answered elsewhere in this thread, but at 749 pages this thread is not the easiest to effectively search.

Are there any adapters commercially available to run the 1266 from a speaker amp or is everyone using custom adapters?


----------



## Bonddam (Jun 25, 2020)

I believe from what I’ve heard it’s custom made cable. If you buy one get just adapter to connect to stock cable so it’s cheaper.


----------



## EndGameSearch

Bonddam said:


> I believe from what I’ve heard it’s custom made cable.


I see some options out there after a quick “google”. Probably should have done that first.


----------



## Bonddam

I was going with Norne Audio and was told between 60 and 100 bucks depending on parts and length.


----------



## EndGameSearch

Not bad. I want to try a cheap one first which is really why I wanted a quick off the shelf option. I’ll go with DHC for a permanent solution.


----------



## ajaipuriyar

Has anyone compared/auditioned the AIC-10 and WA33 with TC? Please share your thoughts.

I am currently using the Headtrip Reference. Looking to add Hybrid/Tube amp as an option.

Thanks.


----------



## F208Frank (Jun 27, 2020)

Whole Lotta love/Symphony No. 5

by "2Cellos"


----------



## F208Frank (Jun 27, 2020)

Deleted.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

One of the biggest positive changes I ever made to my setup, with any headphone, was to add a woojer belt to my amp output. Woojer is a vibration belt which transforms bass waves based on the musical input to a physical feedback. It is kind of like standing in front of the big loudspeakers during a concert. It is really very entertaining to hear the glorious bass of the abyss, and feel it in your stomach


----------



## ra990

Hoegaardener70 said:


> One of the biggest positive changes I ever made to my setup, with any headphone, was to add a woojer belt to my amp output. Woojer is a vibration belt which transforms bass waves based on the musical input to a physical feedback. It is kind of like standing in front of the big loudspeakers during a concert. It is really very entertaining to hear the glorious bass of the abyss, and feel it in your stomach


Whoa, never heard of this before...looks interesting. Like a subwoofer for your body. 

https://www.woojer.com/strap/


----------



## tholt

Hoegaardener70 said:


> One of the biggest positive changes I ever made to my setup, with any headphone, was to add a woojer belt to my amp output.


How do you connect it to your amp?


----------



## F208Frank

I legit thought he was trolling, can not believe this exists.


----------



## radnor

ra990 said:


> Whoa, never heard of this before...looks interesting. Like a subwoofer for your body.
> 
> https://www.woojer.com/strap/


i may grab one of these!


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## Hoegaardener70 (Jun 29, 2020)

tholt said:


> How do you connect it to your amp?



I use a normal 3.5mm cable which fits the woojer as is. My amp has different outputs and i use a 6.4mm to 3.5mm Adapter to connect there. Simple and effective.
This doesn’t work well for easy to drive headphones like the Empy since the input “volume” is too low for the woojer. With the abyss or HD800S, no problem.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

F208Frank said:


> I legit thought he was trolling, can not believe this exists.



why would I do that? No, I use this for VR for some years now. It makes a huge difference. I then started using it for gaming, movies and music.


----------



## koven

Hoegaardener70 said:


> why would I do that? No, I use this for VR for some years now. It makes a huge difference. I then started using it for gaming, movies and music.



Is it better than the Subpac?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

koven said:


> Is it better than the Subpac?



well, the woojer belt is a small device with a simple setup, either Bluetooth or 3.5mm. The bigger version is a vest with 8 transducers.I do not know how they compare to subpac, but woojer is easy to setup. The subpar seems less so, but I personally did not try.


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## ken6217 (Jun 29, 2020)

I use the Buttkicker LFE Audio transducer with an amp connected to the bottom of my home theater chair and the sub output of my surround sound processor for home theater. The chair shakes with the bass output. You set the amp so that the amount it shakes is commensurate to what you hear so that it’s not out of proportion. It is so good.

https://thebuttkicker.com/amp/buttkicker-advance/


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ken6217 said:


> I use the Buttkicker LFE Audio transducer with an amp connected to the bottom of my home theater chair and the sub output of my surround sound processor for hime theater. The chair shakes with the bass output. You set the amp so that the amount it shakes is commensurate to what you hear so that it’s not out of proportion. It is so good.
> 
> https://thebuttkicker.com/amp/buttkicker-advance/



Sounds great. I personally use the woojer vest on my office chair when I watch movies, so it needs to be movable. But it does the same with no amp. 
But in any case, for using with the ab-1266, the belt is best just plugged into the amp using the 3.5mm connector plus adapter.


----------



## zworykin

I can second the awesomeness of the Woojer vest (I was one of the early Kickstarter backers), though I use it mostly for playing games in VR. I may just grab the belt for something simpler for music...


----------



## Hoegaardener70

zworykin said:


> I can second the awesomeness of the Woojer vest (I was one of the early Kickstarter backers), though I use it mostly for playing games in VR. I may just grab the belt for something simpler for music...



I also have the vest and used it recently while listening to Ravel with the Abyss. The orchestral crescendos are fantastic with it


----------



## F208Frank

zworykin said:


> I can second the awesomeness of the Woojer vest (I was one of the early Kickstarter backers), though I use it mostly for playing games in VR. I may just grab the belt for something simpler for music...


Do you feel the Woojer vest would be overkill for music, lol. Serious question.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

F208Frank said:


> Do you feel the Woojer vest would be overkill for music, lol. Serious question.



You actually did not ask me but zworykin, but well ... here m2c. Yes, it is. It is fun for experimentation, but not for daily listening. The belt is.


----------



## F208Frank

Hoegaardener70 said:


> You actually did not ask me but zworykin, but well ... here m2c. Yes, it is. It is fun for experimentation, but not for daily listening. The belt is.


What is the reasoning? Is it because it is too overwhelming or more so too much of a hassle to strap it on for music?


----------



## radnor

F208Frank said:


> Do you feel the Woojer vest would be overkill for music, lol. Serious question.


from the research i just did.... the vest would be best for music.... 

problem is how to get the signal in... if for example you are doing portable with a good DAP... in its current config you need to drive your headphones with its on board HP amp and dac. mojo or H2 should work because as you can run 2 HPs simultaneous.... thats prob the way to go... couldn't use with the fiio m15 or an AK dap.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

F208Frank said:


> What is the reasoning? Is it because it is too overwhelming or more so too much of a hassle to strap it on for music?



The vest is basically designed to be used while standing, it is meant for VR. It is not overly comfortable when seated. There are two workarounds: You can of course keep the straps lose, or what I do, which is putting the vest in a chair without wearing. Both works well, but when I am just listening, for me the strap is the best compromise. But I never listen to the abyss without it.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Jun 29, 2020)

radnor said:


> from the research i just did.... the vest would be best for music....
> 
> problem is how to get the signal in... if for example you are doing portable with a good DAP... in its current config you need to drive your headphones with its on board HP amp and dac. mojo or H2 should work because as you can run 2 HPs simultaneous.... thats prob the way to go... couldn't use with the fiio m15 or an AK dap.



That is correct. The onboard DAC is an insult for audiophiles, so the only way to transport the signal in is via 3.5mm. I use the ifi ican Pro which has three signal outlets parallel.

Another way: Using Roon etc to provide a signal to your DAC/AMP, and simultaneously output to the bluetooth of the woojer. Windows does not have two signal channels by default but it can be done.


----------



## Litlgi74

I thought I was missing the LFE only a subwoofer could provide when listening to my TCs... So I tried running my home theater sub (Paradaigm Sub 1) from one of the line outs of my Moon 600i while connected to my TCs... It was cool for a few minutes... More of a novelty.. quickly returned the sub to where it came from.


----------



## ken6217

To me, there’s a disconnect using the sub. A sub is supposed to integrate seamlessly into a room. I don’t see how it would work well with headphones.


----------



## tholt

Litlgi74 said:


> I thought I was missing the LFE only a subwoofer could provide when listening to my TCs... So I tried running my home theater sub (Paradaigm Sub 1) from one of the line outs of my Moon 600i while connected to my TCs... It was cool for a few minutes... More of a novelty.. quickly returned the sub to where it came from.


Yeah, but did you try sitting on it?


----------



## ken6217

tholt said:


> Yeah, but did you try sitting on it?



No, but I might see if my girlfriend want to.


----------



## astrostar59

zworykin said:


> I can second the awesomeness of the Woojer vest (I was one of the early Kickstarter backers), though I use it mostly for playing games in VR. I may just grab the belt for something simpler for music...


Fascinating. I think the idea is to get some of the physical impressions of a speaker rig in a headphone system? I fancy trying it.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

astrostar59 said:


> Fascinating. I think the idea is to get some of the physical impressions of a speaker rig in a headphone system? I fancy trying it.



not necessarily normal speakers, but a physical translation of music. imagine standing in front of those huge concert rigs or club systems and the feedback they create.

on another note, I started writing a review of woojer for headphone enthusiasts but never finished it. Seeing the feedback on this issue here, may be I should get back to it 👩‍💻


----------



## Jonclw (Jul 1, 2020)

Hi I am using a wyred4sound Dac-2se and wells studio enigma from a few year back.  On paper this combo seems ok to drive the abyss 1266 TC, anyone has experience with using this dac or amp for the 1266?  How well can this combo perform with the 1266?  Just ok, good or more than good?

With a computer to usb connection, I listen more to EDM, hip pop, pop, jazz using my th900mk2 blue / lcd4z / he1000v1.

I am also open to the idea of upgrading if needed.  I am looking for the best bass possible with good mid and high.  I love the bass on my th900mk2 blue, I am looking for a setup to meet or exceed the performance of my th900mk2 blue in the bass department.  I read woo audio wa33 is one of the top choices, do you think the wyred4sound dac-2se will play nice with the wa33 or you suggest I replace my dac too (dac suggestion please)?

So in short, just get the 1266 and enjoy it with my current setup or dac/amp upgrade is needed in order for the 1266 to sing?

I would love to hear your thoughts.  Any advice is welcome, much appreciated and ty in advance!


----------



## Litlgi74

Jonclw said:


> I am looking for a setup to meet or exceed the performance of my th900mk2 blue in the bass department.



I too came from a TH900 background. I was very concerned about not achieving the same LFE with another headphone...

Rest assured my friend... with proper fitting... the 1266 meets or exceeds the LFE of the TH900s. But they also have many, many other sonic qualities that will have you shelving your TH900s for quite some time.

Just to make sure I wasn't missing anything... I spent quite a bit of time at the Fostex booth at CanJam NYC this year. Nope! Not missing anything!

The WA33 is an incredible amp. But there are others in that price range that sound just as good or better... MOON 600I, Riviera AIC-10, etc.

Hope this helps.


----------



## tholt

Jonclw said:


> Hi I am using a wyred4sound Dac-2se and wells studio enigma from a few year back.


I have experience with the W4S 2Se DAC. It's a nice, full sounding DAC with great bass. My feeling is that this combo will sound great. I also can't imagine why the W4S wou;dn't play nice with the WA33. Is there a reason you ask?


----------



## ken6217

tholt said:


> I have experience with the W4S 2Se DAC. It's a nice, full sounding DAC with great bass. My feeling is that this combo will sound great. I also can't imagine why the W4S wou;dn't play nice with the WA33. Is there a reason you ask?



There’s no reason that it shouldn’t.


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> There’s no reason that it shouldn’t.


I concur


----------



## ken6217

tholt said:


> I concur



Actually you said it first. That would make me the concurer.


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> Actually you said it first. That would make me the concurer.


Lol. We co-concur


----------



## ken6217

tholt said:


> Lol. We co-concur


----------



## radnor

Jonclw said:


> Hi I am using a wyred4sound Dac-2se and wells studio enigma from a few year back.  On paper this combo seems ok to drive the abyss 1266 TC, anyone has experience with using this dac or amp for the 1266?  How well can this combo perform with the 1266?  Just ok, good or more than good?
> 
> With a computer to usb connection, I listen more to EDM, hip pop, pop, jazz using my th900mk2 blue / lcd4z / he1000v1.
> 
> ...


I would sell the TC and just strap 2 woojers to your head.


----------



## Jonclw

Litlgi74 said:


> I too came from a TH900 background. I was very concerned about not achieving the same LFE with another headphone...
> 
> Rest assured my friend... with proper fitting... the 1266 meets or exceeds the LFE of the TH900s. But they also have many, many other sonic qualities that will have you shelving your TH900s for quite some time.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your suggestion.  I was just searching through the pages I found lots of good amp suggestions will check them out including the ones you mentioned.  Good one.


----------



## Jonclw

tholt said:


> I have experience with the W4S 2Se DAC. It's a nice, full sounding DAC with great bass. My feeling is that this combo will sound great. I also can't imagine why the W4S wou;dn't play nice with the WA33. Is there a reason you ask?



I mean I would like to hear more comment from anything one who has prior experience with the wyred4sound DAC and wa33 and how they sound together.  I will research more on the wa33, thank you!


----------



## Jonclw

radnor said:


> I would sell the TC and just strap 2 woojers to your head.



Whatever the woojer is you sound like you really like them you should rock a pair with you in bed, I don't mind having 2 TCs though.


----------



## BPED (Jul 2, 2020)

ajaipuriyar said:


> Has anyone compared/auditioned the AIC-10 and WA33 with TC? Please share your thoughts.
> 
> I am currently using the Headtrip Reference. Looking to add Hybrid/Tube amp as an option.
> 
> Thanks.


Hello, I just opened a thread on the Riviera AIC-10 with my impressions. I have TC and Utopia. I don’t know the WA33 though
See: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/riviera-aic-10-headphones-amplifier.936387/


----------



## ken6217

IMO, the AIC-10 is a ridiculous investment in an amp. It's a crazy amount of money to spend for a headphone amp. Yes, I know it can still give you a Whopping 10W for speakers too, but for that kind of money, you can get a top, top, top tier speaker amp that you can use with your headphones, and then let it do double duty for good speaker, not just super efficient ones that you would need for 10W. In addition wait until you to try to sell the AIC-10. You are going to need a case of vaseline for how bad you're going to get eff'd.


----------



## spotforscott

Have you even heard the amp?


----------



## ken6217

spotforscott said:


> Have you even heard the amp?



Me?


----------



## spotforscott

Yes, you. What is your opinion based on?


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> IMO, the AIC-10 is a ridiculous investment in an amp. It's a crazy amount of money to spend for a headphone amp. Yes, I know it can still give you a Whopping 10W for speakers too, but for that kind of money, you can get a top, top, top tier speaker amp that you can use with your headphones, and then let it do double duty for good speaker, not just super efficient ones that you would need for 10W. In addition wait until you to try to sell the AIC-10. You are going to need a case of vaseline for how bad you're going to get eff'd.


Lol. No doubt on the used market. 

I tend to agree, unless you have money to burn, it's not the best investment from a cost standpoint. Lots of options at that price range. Looks sexy as hell tho


----------



## ken6217

spotforscott said:


> Yes, you. What is your opinion based on?



You couldn't figure it out from what I said? Price only. It doesn't matter how great it sounds. There are many, many speaker amps that would sound as good or better, and at  a better value, and pull double duty driving speakers if he comes at some point at the price level of the AIC-10.

I'm not averse to spending money on equipment as my amp and preamp is north of what that costs, but to me, it is a better value, and I won't get killed selling it.

As I originally said *IMO*. This forum isn't limited to opinion just based solely on the sound of a component, but also on discussing other factors in purchasing. Of course what something is worth to one person, may not be to someone else.


----------



## spotforscott

ken6217 said:


> You couldn't figure it out from what I said? Price only. It doesn't matter how great it sounds. There are many, many speaker amps that would sound as good or better, and at  a better value, and pull double duty driving speakers if he comes at some point at the price level of the AIC-10.
> 
> I'm not averse to spending money on equipment as my amp and preamp is north of what that costs, but to me, it is a better value, and I won't get killed selling it.
> 
> As I originally said *IMO*. This forum isn't limited to opinion just based solely on the sound of a component, but also on discussing other factors in purchasing. Of course what something is worth to one person, may not be to someone else.


Well your opinion that it does not matter how the aamp sounds tells me all I need to know about the value of your opinion. I am surprised you participate in this thread given the cost of the Abyss. Surely you can find something at a lower price.


----------



## ken6217

spotforscott said:


> Well your opinion that it does not matter how the aamp sounds tells me all I need to know about the value of your opinion. I am surprised you participate in this thread given the cost of the Abyss. Surely you can find something at a lower price.



You should invest in a reading comprehension class. If you were able to understand what I was saying, you would realize that:

I am not complaining about the price of equipment, as I said:
A) My amp and preamp costs more than the AIC-10.
B) There are better values out there at that price level which will sound as good or better.
C) The financial loss in selling it will be huge.

So have the common sense to pass over my post, not reply, and just read the ones that are easy for you to understand.


----------



## spotforscott

ken6217 said:


> You should invest in a reading comprehension class. If you were able to understand what I was saying, you would realize that:
> 
> I am not complaining about the price of equipment, as I said:
> A) My amp and preamp costs more than the AIC-10.
> ...


...”sound good or better” and yet how it sounds doesn’t matter...? oh and you can say these other amps sounds a good or better because...? You make absolutely no sense and have no credibility.


----------



## MatW

Guys...


----------



## ken6217 (Jul 2, 2020)

spotforscott said:


> ...”sound good or better” and yet how it sounds doesn’t matter...? oh and you can say these other amps sounds a good or better because...? You make absolutely no sense and have no credibility.



No. I'm giving it's do that it could sound fabulous. I'm just saying that there are others out there as well that can sound as good or better which would be a more intelligent option.

You can't dispute that or you're going to be guilty of the same thing that you're accusing me of..... commenting without hearing.

Btw, this may be an unusual way of looking at choosing equipment, but I think it should be a factor. It certainly is for me.


----------



## F208Frank

Anyone ever put on their Abyss and the music gives them so much energy/smiles that they visit this thread during the song to expel some of that overwhelming positive energy? *raises hand at moment*


----------



## BPED

ken6217 said:


> IMO, the AIC-10 is a ridiculous investment in an amp. It's a crazy amount of money to spend for a headphone amp. Yes, I know it can still give you a Whopping 10W for speakers too, but for that kind of money, you can get a top, top, top tier speaker amp that you can use with your headphones, and then let it do double duty for good speaker, not just super efficient ones that you would need for 10W. In addition wait until you to try to sell the AIC-10. You are going to need a case of vaseline for how bad you're going to get eff'd.



Leaving polemic aside, I think the point you are making is that for you investing this amount of money in a headphones amp is too much. Legitimate, understandable and probably widely shared.

Having said that I find debates such as “is it worth the money?” not very interesting, it is just too subjective. Listening impressions are always subjective, but they can be useful (and fun) to debate. When it comes to investment decisions the discussion quickly hits the wall…

Coming back to you point, and to move the discussion forward, I think that products such as the AIC-10 are “shocking” today because we have seen very few headphones’ amps at this price point (I can only recall Viva at the moment – another Italian amp!).
When the HD800 was launched in 2009 the price was a shocker. I also suspect that the range of top dedicated amps to make them shine was rather limited. Ten years later we (crazy HeadFiers) have come accept that companies can propose cans for 5 - 6k euros. Similarly, DAC specifically designed for headphones (e.g. Chord) also go for above 10k euros to no one surprise. Few amp companies are going in that direction at the moment and they are obviously raising some question marks.

Again, I am not interested in convincing anyone about the “worth” of Riviera, my point is rather than the headphones world, including amps, is catching up with a more consolidated trend in speakers hi fi. The offer is wider at all price levels and the very top we now have incredibly well designed, performing and expensive products. 

Is that good or bad? I leave it up for discussion 😉


----------



## stemiki

It's been about two weeks since I received Abyss TC.

When I take it off in the evening, I can't wait to go back and listen to it again. I didn't think such a quality of listening could be achieved through headphones.

That said, in my opinion, you don't need tons of watts to drive this headset very well. Together with the Benchmark it constitutes a mortal correspondence. 

I have not yet found a song of any musical genre that is not played at the highest levels, you can turn up the volume almost to the maximum and it does not produce distortion.

Certainly, the right correspondence with the Dac source matters much more,otherwise you risk having either a clinical sound or too distorted.Then, however, each of us buys and

tries what in his way of seeing and spending, can reach the highest level of quality.It will be only the perfect combination of all the components to obtain the best result, and this

does not always correspond to a greater use of money.


----------



## CreditingKarma

ken6217 said:


> IMO, the AIC-10 is a ridiculous investment in an amp. It's a crazy amount of money to spend for a headphone amp. Yes, I know it can still give you a Whopping 10W for speakers too, but for that kind of money, you can get a top, top, top tier speaker amp that you can use with your headphones, and then let it do double duty for good speaker, not just super efficient ones that you would need for 10W. In addition wait until you to try to sell the AIC-10. You are going to need a case of vaseline for how bad you're going to get eff'd.



I agree the AIC-10 is expensive. With that said I am starting to look into an upgrade for my hegel h360 for my speakers and to get into the top, top tier like you say it seems to be much more than the riviera. The new boulder integrated and dagostino progression integrated are up there in price. The dagostino starts at over $18k and to get to the momentum series you are talking like $40k or more. They are both incredible but that is alot of money.


----------



## ken6217

BPED said:


> Leaving polemic aside, I think the point you are making is that for you investing this amount of money in a headphones amp is too much. Legitimate, understandable and probably widely shared.
> 
> Having said that I find debates such as “is it worth the money?” not very interesting, it is just too subjective. Listening impressions are always subjective, but they can be useful (and fun) to debate. When it comes to investment decisions the discussion quickly hits the wall…
> 
> ...



Good post.


----------



## Jon L (Jul 3, 2020)

CreditingKarma said:


> The dagostino starts at over $18k and to get to the momentum series you are talking like $40k or more. They are both incredible but that is alot of money.



If I were looking for cost-no-object solid state amps, D'Agostino would be in the select few. I do think the photos make them look much smaller than in person. 




D&#x27;AgostinoRelentlessMono by drjlo2, on Flickr

However, IMO great headphones and speakers SHOULD sound great even out of relatively modest gear, if chosen carefully for synergy with necessary little tweaks.
For example, I am listening to my Abyss TC right now out of of my little 5 watt EL84 amp with good caps and tubes rolled in, and the music is alive, wanting for nothing.  I must confess the addition of 18650 Li batteries to power my SOtM USB card and spdif converter is what really tipped over this modest system to bliss, but there does seem to be some truth that tubes can render satisfaction at lower cost than solid state...




0703201010b by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## ahossam

Jon L said:


> If I were looking for cost-no-object solid state amps, D'Agostino would be in the select few. I do think the photos make them look much smaller than in person.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is more like the Hulkbuster amp!!!


----------



## jlbrach

I wouldnt want to be the moving man tasked with relocating that amp!


----------



## radnor (Jul 3, 2020)

delete


----------



## radnor




----------



## F208Frank

radnor said:


>


lol, they sound amazing as F though, my wife laughed at me and I laughed back at her because she's the one really missing out. =)


----------



## radnor

F208Frank said:


> lol, they sound amazing as F though, my wife laughed at me and I laughed back at her because she's the one really missing out. =)


yep... i bet.... but Abyss needs to step up and hire some real industrial designers.... these things are atrocious looking.


----------



## F208Frank (Jul 3, 2020)

radnor said:


> yep... i bet.... but Abyss needs to step up and hire some real industrial designers.... these things are atrocious looking.


I doubt they will as from speaking with Abyss staff they feel it looks good, which of course is their right to their opinion.

Also you can tell they are proud of their creation when speaking to them and rightfully so! These headphones are amazing so for me personally despite not really liking how they look, I just listen to them with a smile in my room anyways.

They also mentioned in their youtube videos they designed it this way for adjustment purposes and sound purposes. I will say though the very VERY first time I went to Can Jam and saw them, I walked right past them because that was how much I disliked how they looked. Months later I realized that was one of the best headphones ever made and my jaw almost dropped.

Tried it for myself, and I ended up upgrading my WHOLE chain because of them.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Jon L said:


> If I were looking for cost-no-object solid state amps, D'Agostino would be in the select few. I do think the photos make them look much smaller than in person.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The relentless is huge. I saw them last year at axpona with a pair of wilson wamms. D'Agostino makes great amps.


----------



## Bonddam

If you are looking for great test track for EDM look no further then Rezz track named Edge. She isn't your boring EDM. Style is midtempo.


----------



## radnor

F208Frank said:


> I doubt they will as from speaking with Abyss staff they feel it looks good, which of course is their right to their opinion.
> 
> Also you can tell they are proud of their creation when speaking to them and rightfully so! These headphones are amazing so for me personally despite not really liking how they look, I just listen to them with a smile in my room anyways.
> 
> ...


they designed it this way BECAUSE they do not have a great ID team... period. its entirely possible to have this transducer set in a much better looking package.


----------



## F208Frank (Jul 3, 2020)

I doubt they will change the design any time soon bud.

I do not think hiring a ID team is any where near the top of their priority and if they already mentioned design was made for sonic purposes, they will likely stick to that. They are also a family ran business that seems to prefer to keep headcount low. When I mention family, yes I would think they consider their video editor guy family as well despite not by blood. They all have good chemistry together and it shows in the videos.

Are you from Oakland California? I grew up in the Bay Area and now reside in NY.


----------



## MacedonianHero

radnor said:


> they designed it this way BECAUSE they do not have a great ID team... period. its entirely possible to have this transducer set in a much better looking package.



I don't think you fully appreciate the design work that went into them to maximize their sound quality. There is so much more to a great pair of headphones than just top notch transducers. I suggest you head over to their YouTube page as there are a few videos that will shed some light on why they are designed the way they are. The build quality is simply top notch and when I'm at my rig, I could care less how I look. Maybe a fancy looking pair of Beats Studio....they look pretty sleek?


----------



## tholt

MacedonianHero said:


> The build quality is simply top notch and when I'm at my rig, I could care less how I look.


I don't know about top notch. Sure, they are aluminum and built like a tank, and uniquely adjustable on the X and Z planes. But they're super heavy, and there is no way to adjust the headstrap up or down, which in my mind is a huge oversight. It's literally one size fits all. Hence, the numerous tweaks and workarounds owners have gone through to compensate. Do you see Utopia owners rigging their frames with zip ties and the like? And that O ring discussion... but I won't start that again (but a legitimate argument, IMO). 

They sound phenomenal. But beyond sonics, I think they can still do with a few frame design considerations.


----------



## ken6217 (Jul 3, 2020)

tholt said:


> I don't know about top notch. Sure, they are aluminum and built like a tank, and uniquely adjustable on the X and Z planes. But they're super heavy, and there is no way to adjust the headstrap up or down, which in my mind is a huge oversight. It's literally one size fits all. Hence, the numerous tweaks and workarounds owners have gone through to compensate. Do you see Utopia owners rigging their frames with zip ties and the like? And that O ring discussion... but I won't start that again (but a legitimate argument, IMO).
> 
> They sound phenomenal. But beyond sonics, I think they can still do with a few frame design considerations.



Utopias look nice but sound lbrighter than the sun. The TC sounds better than anything I’ve ever heard. I find nothing wrong with the appearance, or the comfort.


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> Utopias look nice but sound like but are brighter than the sun


I was just using that as an example for a frame design. Could be any high end frame.


----------



## joseph69

ken6217 said:


> Utopias look nice but sound lbrighter than the sun.


Maybe I your system, but absolutely not in mine.


----------



## Bonddam

If they change it how will they run them over?


----------



## tholt

Bonddam said:


> If they change it how will they run them over?


 This f-ing made my day


----------



## ken6217 (Jul 3, 2020)

joseph69 said:


> Maybe I your system, but absolutely not in mine.



I know quite a few people on Head Fi that have the same opinion. To each their own.

They are known to be bright sounding. Thats why quite a few people pair them with the Lazuli Reference headphone cable.


----------



## Bonddam

I'm fine with the design it's unique.


----------



## joseph69

ken6217 said:


> They are known to be bright sounding. Thats why quite a few people pair them with the Lazuli Reference headphone cable.


I had the Lazuli Reference and sold it not too long after due to preferring the WireWorld Nano-Platinum Eclipse w/Utopia. The Utopia is a microscope into your upstream gear, so if your gear is on the bright side, the Utopia will definitely let you know it.


----------



## MacedonianHero

tholt said:


> I don't know about top notch. Sure, they are aluminum and built like a tank, and uniquely adjustable on the X and Z planes. But they're super heavy, and there is no way to adjust the headstrap up or down, which in my mind is a huge oversight. It's literally one size fits all. Hence, the numerous tweaks and workarounds owners have gone through to compensate. Do you see Utopia owners rigging their frames with zip ties and the like? And that O ring discussion... but I won't start that again (but a legitimate argument, IMO).
> 
> They sound phenomenal. But beyond sonics, I think they can still do with a few frame design considerations.



The materials used and the fit / finish and quality is truly top notch and I own both the Utopia and Stellia. I find them quite comfortable and after a few hours about the same in terms of comfort. Now sound quality....they are simply one of the very best I've ever heard and I prefer them to both Focals. As I mentioned, I recommend you check out the Abyss website for the design considerations that went into them, it's pretty interesting. I have a fairly large head, and they work with mine, but also on my 12 year old son too...so that's a pretty wide range. Do you have an engineering background? I do (graduate level) and Joe and team really put a great amount of thought into them and I suggest you read up on it. Maybe Joe can chime in here?

Plus they are a tank! I bet you I could not drive a truck over my Utopia and have them survive.


----------



## F208Frank (Jul 4, 2020)

MacedonianHero said:


> The materials used and the fit / finish and quality is truly top notch and I own both the Utopia and Stellia. I find them quite comfortable and after a few hours about the same in terms of comfort. Now sound quality....they are simply one of the very best I've ever heard and I prefer them to both Focals. As I mentioned, I recommend you check out the Abyss website for the design considerations that went into them, it's pretty interesting. I have a fairly large head, and they work with mine, but also on my 12 year old son too...so that's a pretty wide range. Do you have an engineering background? I do (graduate level) and Joe and team really put a great amount of thought into them and I suggest you read up on it. Maybe Joe can chime in here?
> 
> Plus they are a tank! I bet you I could not drive a truck over my Utopia and have them survive.


Yeah I was actually going to echo/re-echo/emphasize the design built for maximized sound quality, but was lazy to engage into a potentially heated debate. You are the better head-fier than me.

Joe and team put their focus on maximizing sound and even explain a little of their thought process into choosing materials, build, etc.

Abyss team also does not strike me as a team who would do any sort of balancing act between sound/design, seems like they are enthusiasts themselves and care mostly/only for SOUND.

Quite the SOUND decision if you ask me! (couldn't help myself)


----------



## radnor

CreditingKarma said:


> The relentless is huge. I saw them last year at axpona with a pair of wilson wamms. D'Agostino makes great amps.


just a peanut.


F208Frank said:


> I doubt they will change the design any time soon bud.
> 
> I do not think hiring a ID team is any where near the top of their priority and if they already mentioned design was made for sonic purposes, they will likely stick to that. They are also a family ran business that seems to prefer to keep headcount low. When I mention family, yes I would think they consider their video editor guy family as well despite not by blood. They all have good chemistry together and it shows in the videos.
> 
> Are you from Oakland California? I grew up in the Bay Area and now reside in NY.


palo alto... and canadian. ; )


----------



## F208Frank

Damn Palo Alto the land of the wealthy, I grew up in San Jose/Fremont area, suburbs.


----------



## MacedonianHero

radnor said:


> just a peanut.
> 
> palo alto... and canadian. ; )



Live in Oakland and Canadian...then Go Raptors!!!


----------



## radnor

MacedonianHero said:


> Live in Oakland and Canadian...then Go Raptors!!!


SCTV FTW!


----------



## tholt

MacedonianHero said:


> The materials used and the fit / finish and quality is truly top notch and I own both the Utopia and Stellia.


Again, I was using the Utopia frame as an example only. Sorry that's getting people off track. My comment was pointing out that I don't know of other high end frames whose owners have gone through the lengths Abyss owners have to achieve and/or compensate for, a proper fit. After working at it, I've also gotten a good fit, but I had to get creative.



MacedonianHero said:


> Now sound quality....they are simply one of the very best I've ever heard and I prefer them to both Focals


As I also said, I think the SQ is phenomenal. I don't have any issue with it, only the frame in some respects. Heavy, no adjustment of the headband, mainly. I do however find them surprisingly comfortable, even after hours of wearing. But my neck will be feeling it the next day...


----------



## tholt

MacedonianHero said:


> Do you have an engineering background? I do (graduate level) and Joe and team really put a great amount of thought into them and I suggest you read up on it.



Reason for the snark? Do I need an "engineering background" to have an opinion on fit?


----------



## MacedonianHero (Jul 4, 2020)

radnor said:


> SCTV FTW!



Oh yeah!!! Now you're talking! Happy Belated Canada Day:


radnor said:


> SCTV FTW!



Most definitely! Happy belated Canada Day:





And Happy 4th of July to my American friends.


----------



## MacedonianHero (Jul 4, 2020)

tholt said:


> Reason for the snark? Do I need an "engineering background" to have an opinion on fit?



There is absolutely no snark intended...most of these things us engineers can really appreciate that most folks don't. It actually goes beyond the "fit" as you mentioned. It has to do with minimizing vibrations and distortion to offer a cleaner sound and having the ear cups sit the proper way that traditional headbands just can't achieve...thus their design choices. This kind of stuff always piques my interest, but I'm a nerd. That was my point and I did not intend it to offend in anyway. 

Great video that explains why we are "different":


----------



## MacedonianHero (Jul 4, 2020)

tholt said:


> Again, I was using the Utopia frame as an example only. Sorry that's getting people off track. My comment was pointing out that I don't know of other high end frames whose owners have gone through the lengths Abyss owners have to achieve and/or compensate for, a proper fit. After working at it, I've also gotten a good fit, but I had to get creative.
> 
> 
> As I also said, I think the SQ is phenomenal. I don't have any issue with it, only the frame in some respects. Heavy, no adjustment of the headband, mainly. I do however find them surprisingly comfortable, even after hours of wearing. But my neck will be feeling it the next day...



As mentioned, please look at their YouTube channel, the frame has more to do with sound quality and not fit. FWIW, I've never had an issue with heavier headphones and sorry, I can't relate to when folks have mentioned this to me.

EDIT: I found one of the videos, some good explanations for the design choices:


----------



## F208Frank (Jul 4, 2020)

Am I on ACID right now or did your Owl in your profile picture change recently MacedonianHero?


----------



## MacedonianHero

F208Frank said:


> Am I on ACID right now or did your Owl in your profile picture change MacedonianHero?



Should still be Fly by Night - Rush's album cover.


----------



## Articnoise

ken6217 said:


> You should invest in a reading comprehension class. If you were able to understand what I was saying, you would realize that:
> 
> I am not complaining about the price of equipment, as I said:
> A) My amp and preamp costs more than the AIC-10.
> ...



It’s obvious that you are complaining about the price of an amp which you have not heard and compared to other amps.

But let’s leave that and take a look of the actual financial loss of selling a used AIC-10 compared to an Audio Research REF 75se. How much do you get for a used AIC-10 vs REF 75se?


----------



## mat.1

How many hours for break in jps super conductor cable ?


----------



## radnor

MacedonianHero said:


> There is absolutely no snark intended...most of these things us engineers can really appreciate that most folks don't. It actually goes beyond the "fit" as you mentioned. It has to do with minimizing vibrations and distortion to offer a cleaner sound and having the ear cups sit the proper way that traditional headbands just can't achieve...thus their design choices. This kind of stuff always piques my interest, but I'm a nerd. That was my point and I did not intend it to offend in anyway.
> 
> Great video that explains why we are "different":



And the exact reason why most engineers fail at product development.


----------



## radnor

MacedonianHero said:


> As mentioned, please look at their YouTube channel, the frame has more to do with sound quality and not fit. FWIW, I've never had an issue with heavier headphones and sorry, I can't relate to when folks have mentioned this to me.
> 
> EDIT: I found one of the videos, some good explanations for the design choices:



Justification of inferior design does not forgive ignorance.


----------



## ahossam

radnor said:


> Justification of inferior design does not forgive ignorance.



Instead of whining why don't you build something yourself then? 1266 design has served it purpose really well, its comfortable to wear and most importantly its sound really good, best headphone I have ever try.


----------



## radnor

ahossam said:


> Instead of whining why don't you build something yourself then? 1266 design has served it purpose really well, its comfortable to wear and most importantly its sound really good, best headphone I have ever try.


I believe you.... however I bet their next gen is designed very different.


----------



## ken6217 (Jul 4, 2020)

Articnoise said:


> It’s obvious that you are complaining about the price of an amp which you have not heard and compared to other amps.
> 
> But let’s leave that and take a look of the actual financial loss of selling a used AIC-10 compared to an Audio Research REF 75se. How much do you get for a used AIC-10 vs REF 75se?



Obviously you don’t get it either. You can’t be serious. The AIC-10 is extremely expensive, for a niche market, and pretty much no one has ever heard of it. It’s like $5k more that my AR amp Is new. I bought mine as a demo and is used for headphones and for my two channel speaker system and so it’s multi use. It also is extremely popular for the speaker systems. I bought my amp as a demo and so if I sold it I would probably lose no more than $3k. I’d bet if someone sold the AIC-10 they may get 50-60% of what they paid.

And again, for the reading challenged, My point had nothing to do with the sound of that amp. Only the price of just a headphone amp, It’s totally a ridiculous price. It is almost the price of a D’Agostino amp.

Anyway, we’re beating a dead horse here. We all have our own opinions and everyone should be happy with what they own.


----------



## ken6217

radnor said:


> I believe you.... however I bet their next gen is designed very different.



I’m sure the design was part of the plan. I doubt Joe sat down at the beginning and though to himself. OK, I need to come up with a headphone that sounds better than anything that’s out there, but really needs to be ugly.

The design gives you the sound that it does, and also enables you to adjust it to how you like to hear music, as well as adjust it for certain songs. That’s the reason why it looks the way it does. How many headphones give you ability to manipulate it to tailor the sound to how you like it? Morre bass, less bass, changing the soundstage, etc.

Did you take the time to watch any of the videos that Joe put out on how to adjust headphones to tailor the sound to how you like it? Do you think he made those videos just to cover up an “ugly” design?


----------



## MacedonianHero (Jul 4, 2020)

radnor said:


> Justification of inferior design does not forgive ignorance.



I see you’ve chosen ignorance then. For any design, one has to prioritize what they want to accomplish and many times in detriment to other less important things (like a cool Beats-like design), in the AB1266's case it was maximize sound quality...they have certainly accomplished that. You may prefer one where the design has more of a fashion sense and that is your prerogative and you are free to spend your money where you deem best.


----------



## MacedonianHero (Jul 4, 2020)

NVM


----------



## MacedonianHero (Jul 4, 2020)

radnor said:


> And the exact reason why most engineers fail at product development.



Good luck developing anything without us. There’s a reason rocket ships fly, bridges don't collapse and the AB1266 sound so damn good.


----------



## F208Frank

I wanted to lighten the mood in here by sharing a happy go lucky song. 

Loud Luxury - Gummy

Enjoy and Happy 4th of July everyone, we are very fortunate to be able to afford the Abyss whether it was bought new or used. Stay safe!


----------



## jlbrach (Jul 4, 2020)

interestingly I find the abyss design to be among the most comfortable I own and have owned and I have owned most everything over the years...yes they are a bit cumbersome and difficult to master at first but once you do the fact that they kind of float alongside your ears and head as opposed to clamp means I can listen to them for long periods of time without the fatigue I sometimes get from the clamping force...as comfortable as the susvaras are the clamping force is rather strong and can cause some fatigue,at least for me...I tend to listen to my HP's in a stationary position with my back supported so the 1266 does not pose any issue for me, if I was going to be walking around or looking to be more mobile then yes they would pose issues


----------



## Jon L

As the heat and humidity kicks up in here SoCal, the Abyss is becoming oddly the comfort favorite due to the fact the earpads can almost be off my face, causing less heat and sweat.  Of course, the Raal SR1a is completely off the face and still wins in this regard...


----------



## 340519

I'm still waiting for mine to ship. At this point I don't  care what they look like, I just want to listen to them!


----------



## wristmachine (Jul 5, 2020)

First of all, I would like to thank all of you for some fantastic contributions to this thread.. I have had a great time browsing through it on and on .. trying to digest all the information that I am sifting .. One of my favorite portions has been track recommendations from tidal etc .. We certainly need more of those.

I received my Abyss TC this past week and unboxing it after putting my kids to sleep was a total joy. Bad decision though since I ended up listening past 3 in the morning.

I loved listening directly through Dave + MScaler. I do have a gen 1 Schiit Ragnarök but I need a more sophisticated amp... I feel like Raggy has ample power but is fairly rough around the edges.

- I am fairly sensitive to any background hum or noise/distortion in my music and would like recommendations for a powerful amp that will also have a pitch black background.
For that reason, I am hesitant to go for a speaker amp via banana plugs.

- I would like for the amp to really shine with both Susvara & TC.

Look forward to all the recommendations..


----------



## F208Frank (Jul 5, 2020)

wristmachine said:


> First of all, I would like to thank all of you for some fantastic contributions to this thread.. I have had a great time browsing through it on and on .. trying to digest all the information that I am sifting .. One of my favorite portions has been track recommendations from tidal etc .. We certainly need more of those.
> 
> I received my Abyss TC this past week and unboxing it after putting my kids to sleep was a total joy. Bad decision though since I ended up listening past 3 in the morning.
> 
> ...


Some Popular AMP Pairings Are:
HPA4, WA33, AIC10, Moon Sim Audio 600, Formula S + Powerman

Based on you liking the sound from DAVE direct, HPA4 seems very likely your weapon of choice. It also happens to come from a reputable company who prices items reasonably: Benchmark.

All amps listed above seem to be the most popular pairings though from what I gathered so any would be a great choice depending on preference.

Retail Pricing in Order From Most Expensive to Least:

1. Elite WA33 with Upgrade Tubes
2. Standard WA33 with Upgrade Tubes
3. Riviera AIC10 
4. Moon Audio 600 (Speaker Taps)
5. Formula S + Powerman
6. HPA4

Personally I have tried both Elite WA33 and HPA4 and they are both fantastic in their own right, HPA4 being the transparent beast, and the WA33 for pure musical bliss. I am to demo the AIC10 off a friend soon and can not be more stoked.

Side Question: Anyone have both the stock and SC cable and prefer the stock cable more?


----------



## ken6217

wristmachine said:


> First of all, I would like to thank all of you for some fantastic contributions to this thread.. I have had a great time browsing through it on and on .. trying to digest all the information that I am sifting .. One of my favorite portions has been track recommendations from tidal etc .. We certainly need more of those.
> 
> I received my Abyss TC this past week and unboxing it after putting my kids to sleep was a total joy. Bad decision though since I ended up listening past 3 in the morning.
> 
> ...



Your incorrect with your assumptions regarding speaker amps. There are quite a few people on this forum that use them. I have used a Simaudio 600i V2, Pass Labs XA 30.8, and Audio Research REF 75SE, and they were all dead quite, and all amazing sounding.


----------



## 340519

I myself, just bought a second bryston bha1 from the dealer that sold me the abyss tcs. One for the bedroom and one for the main listening room for the tcs. Pure audio bliss. My personal favorite amp of all time from my favorite audio company of all time. I'm a wee bit of a fan boy.


----------



## 340519

wristmachine said:


> First of all, I would like to thank all of you for some fantastic contributions to this thread.. I have had a great time browsing through it on and on .. trying to digest all the information that I am sifting .. One of my favorite portions has been track recommendations from tidal etc .. We certainly need more of those.
> 
> I received my Abyss TC this past week and unboxing it after putting my kids to sleep was a total joy. Bad decision though since I ended up listening past 3 in the morning.
> 
> ...


Funny you mention the wife and kids, as I have moved completely to headphones for similar reasons.


----------



## 340519

F208Frank said:


> Some Popular AMP Pairings Are:
> HPA4, WA33, AIC10, Moon Sim Audio 600
> 
> Based on you liking the sound from DAVE direct, HPA4 seems very likely your weapon of choice. It also happens to come from a reputable company who prices items reasonably: Benchmark.
> ...


Frank, I agree with your list. Out of those benchmark is my favorite.  I've been a loyal benchmark dac fan for the last decade buying every version. I currently have the dac3b with a smsl thx 888 until the second bha1 arrives.


----------



## F208Frank (Jul 5, 2020)

dmdm said:


> Frank, I agree with your list. Out of those benchmark is my favorite.  I've been a loyal benchmark dac fan for the last decade buying every version. I currently have the dac3b with a smsl thx 888 until the second bha1 arrives.


I was looking at your post about the bryston amp, and I remember that amp being VERY popular when I had the HD600s. I was wondering why it slowly became less known as it was many peoples' go to. I actually almost bought one back then but I was a ramen eating college student so opted for the cheaper Schitt gear. (Bifrost DAC and Asgard 2 Amp)

Amongst my local dealers (especially 2 channel speaker dealers) Bryston remains to be a reputable name!


----------



## 340519

F208Frank said:


> I was looking at your post about the bryston amp, and I remember that amp being VERY popular when I had the HD600s. I was wondering why it slowly became less known as it was many peoples' go to. I actually almost bought one back then but I was a ramen eating college student so opted for the cheaper Schitt gear. (Bifrost DAC and Asgard 2 Amp)
> 
> Amongst my local dealers (especially 2 channel speaker dealers) Bryston remains to be a reputable name!


According to my dealer the reason you don't hear about bryston is that they do not advertise on a lot of sites, head fi included. Advertising dollars go a long way.


----------



## jlbrach

wristmachine said:


> First of all, I would like to thank all of you for some fantastic contributions to this thread.. I have had a great time browsing through it on and on .. trying to digest all the information that I am sifting .. One of my favorite portions has been track recommendations from tidal etc .. We certainly need more of those.
> 
> I received my Abyss TC this past week and unboxing it after putting my kids to sleep was a total joy. Bad decision though since I ended up listening past 3 in the morning.
> 
> ...


the easiest recommendation is the formula s especially with the powerman added on....it was built specifically with the abyss in mind and is as black a background as you will find...it also sounds quite nice with the susvara


----------



## F208Frank

jlbrach said:


> the easiest recommendation is the formula s especially with the powerman added on....it was built specifically with the abyss in mind and is as black a background as you will find...it also sounds quite nice with the susvara


Forgive me, forgot that one, adding back to list.


----------



## wristmachine

jlbrach said:


> the easiest recommendation is the formula s especially with the powerman added on....it was built specifically with the abyss in mind and is as black a background as you will find...it also sounds quite nice with the susvara



I actually have my eyes on the preowned market for that one .. Love evth I have read about it.

Talking of amps built with Abyss in mind, what is the reason for the love/hate relationship with Headtrip on this thread ? Is there sth that I am missing since all reviews are unanimously glowing but there are many skeptics in the thread ..


----------



## EDWARIS

is Abyss 1266 TC good pairing for Viva Egoista 2A3? is anyone using this combo? I know that 845 Egoista would drive this monster with ease and great result, but what about 2a3 version? or maybe Diana Phi better pairing for this smaller amp?


----------



## koven

I was interested in the Egoista at one point, a US dealer had a 2A3 demo unit for ~50% off but I ended up passing because a trusted source told me Viva sound is nothing special, and you're mainly paying for Italian design premium. Take that for what it's worth I guess.


----------



## EDWARIS

I have Solistino and its sound really really great with speakers, great amp despite being almost 10 years old. I ordered egoista 2a3 because I like Viva sound and believe egoista also would sound amazing. now thinking about new headphones for my future Egoista. I had Eddie Current Balancing Act before, it was superb with headphones like Empy, RAD-0, ZMF, Kennerton ect, but not as good with more heavy LCD-4 and not good at all with Abyss/Susvara, it couldn't drive them. So now I am thinking to move to top HP league as my new amp shouldn't constrain me anymore) but want to know if someone tried egoista 2a3 with 1266 TC...


----------



## llamaluv

EDWARIS said:


> I have Solistino and its sound really really great with speakers, great amp despite being almost 10 years old. I ordered egoista 2a3 because I like Viva sound and believe egoista also would sound amazing. now thinking about new headphones for my future Egoista. I had Eddie Current Balancing Act before, it was superb with headphones like Empy, RAD-0, ZMF, Kennerton ect, but not as good with more heavy LCD-4 and not good at all with Abyss/Susvara, it couldn't drive them. So now I am thinking to move to top HP league as my new amp shouldn't constrain me anymore) but want to know if someone tried egoista 2a3 with 1266 TC...



I wonder if the the Egoista 2A3 might be right on the edge of being in that category we might call "Not quite enough power, especially when you consider the price". Reason being that a pair of 2A3's only delivers 3.5 watts of power or thereabouts. And for the price of that unit, you'd want it to pair with your headphones of choice with absolutely no compromises.

If you're interested in a high-end 2A3 amp, the two obvious candidates are the Eddie Current Studio and the WA33, both of which employ 2A3's in a quad configuration. In other words, definitely enough power to the Abyss justice.

Also, though not directly related to your question, but I loved the Egoista 845, which I listened to seriously with the Abyss Phi on two occasions. I almost lost my mind and almost bought one new. Good thing I didn't. I mean, sometimes I wish I had. But yea. Heh.


----------



## F208Frank (Jul 7, 2020)

Anyone feeling little mean and not really giving "Tidal Rising" a chance on Tidal? I have not heard a single song I liked from there.

U1 (Lumin) for sale in the For Sale section if interested.


----------



## EDWARIS

llamaluv said:


> I wonder if the the Egoista 2A3 might be right on the edge of being in that category we might call "Not quite enough power, especially when you consider the price". Reason being that a pair of 2A3's only delivers 3.5 watts of power or thereabouts. And for the price of that unit, you'd want it to pair with your headphones of choice with absolutely no compromises.
> 
> If you're interested in a high-end 2A3 amp, the two obvious candidates are the Eddie Current Studio and the WA33, both of which employ 2A3's in a quad configuration. In other words, definitely enough power to the Abyss justice.
> 
> Also, though not directly related to your question, but I loved the Egoista 845, which I listened to seriously with the Abyss Phi on two occasions. I almost lost my mind and almost bought one new. Good thing I didn't. I mean, sometimes I wish I had. But yea. Heh.



thank you, but I not choosing amp anymore, I have chosen it already. I considered 2 options - Viva and Auris (Headonia and Nirvana) and choose italian one. I am in Europe and I don't want to order anything in the US in our tough time, in the past I can fly to the US and bring everything I want - I brought ECBA home this way, but now its impossible. Last year I was thinking about Studio or Afficionado, I like EC firm sound - but decided not to go this way. so if 1266 not good enough with Viva Egoista 2A3 - I would buy another headphones, it is not a problem now. Right now I have Empy and RAD-0. also thinking about he1000se or Susvara...


----------



## radnor (Jul 7, 2020)

Anyone here listen to the TC with a DCS Rossini and clock?


----------



## gooeyrich

11:24


----------



## mat.1

Any one know JPS Super Conductor Cable 4 pin XLR is gold plated or Rhodium ?


----------



## mat.1

Roasty said:


> I know it's just a cable.. But I always enjoy the unboxing! Didn't expect it to come in a big wooden box... Can't wait to have a listen later tonight.


The 4 pin XLR is Gold Plated or Rhodium ? 
Can you send the picture for the 4 pin XLR ?

Thanks.


----------



## ken6217

mat.1 said:


> The 4 pin XLR is Gold Plated or Rhodium ?
> Can you send the picture for the 4 pin XLR ?
> 
> Thanks.



It’s the whole experience. Unboxing etc.


----------



## mat.1

I need to see the picture to make sure, because the specs says rhodium and I see mine is gold plated .


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Jul 9, 2020)

mat.1 said:


> Any one know JPS Super Conductor Cable 4 pin XLR is gold plated or Rhodium ?



As stated in their web, it is rhodium coated

https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...-labs-superconductor-hp-upgrade-abyss-ab-1266

Third photograph, they show the rhodium "kind of colour"

Mind to photograph your cable?


----------



## mat.1

TheMiddleSky said:


> As stated in their web, it is rhodium coated
> 
> https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...-labs-superconductor-hp-upgrade-abyss-ab-1266
> 
> ...


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Ow wow, that's interesting, perhaps there is a new batch or something and they change to gold plated. Don't know, need to wait for confirmation from the Abyss itself.

Generally gold plated sound smoother than rhodium, with smaller soundstage though.


----------



## mat.1

any one that have 4 pin XLR Super Conductor ?
Please share the picture .
Thanks.


----------



## F208Frank

Just curious where did you buy your cable from? Are you asking because you bought cable not directly from Abyss? 

Here is my photo for you.


----------



## mat.1

F208Frank said:


> Just curious where did you buy your cable from? Are you asking because you bought cable not directly from Abyss?
> 
> Here is my photo for you.


Thanks, yours look like mine , gold plated.
abyss just confirm the 4 pin is gold plated, 3 pin is rhodium.
I buy from Distributor in my neighbour country.


----------



## seamon

Any comparisons between Superconductor vs Prion 4?


----------



## simorag

seamon said:


> Any comparisons between Superconductor vs Prion 4?



Hi, I did a comparison here.


----------



## seamon

simorag said:


> Hi, I did a comparison here.


Nice comparison. That def helped a lot! Which one did you end up keeping?


----------



## simorag (Jul 9, 2020)

seamon said:


> Nice comparison. That def helped a lot! Which one did you end up keeping?



I kept the SC because I felt that the balance between a more organic sound and transparency was overall more enjoyable to my ears.

The Prion4 is a great cable, though, so you cannot really go wrong with either!

P.s. talking about SC magic with vocals, try this


----------



## rmsanger

I'm trying to assemble a list of budget to mid-level amplifiers that will pair with the 1266 Phi TC to form a decent combo.  I'm thinking anywhere from the $500 - $2k range as the default to compare:

iFi Pro iDSD
Pro iCAN
Cayin iHA-6
Flux FA-10
Burson Conductor 3XR
Topping A90
headamp gsx mini

Any others I should add to the list?


----------



## F208Frank

rmsanger said:


> I'm trying to assemble a list of budget to mid-level amplifiers that will pair with the 1266 Phi TC to form a decent combo.  I'm thinking anywhere from the $500 - $2k range as the default to compare:
> 
> iFi Pro iDSD
> Pro iCAN
> ...


I'd say try to stretch budget for used HPA4 based on the list.


----------



## ken6217

F208Frank said:


> I'd say try to stretch budget for used HPA4 based on the list.



 Not a bad idea.


----------



## MatW

rmsanger said:


> I'm trying to assemble a list of budget to mid-level amplifiers that will pair with the 1266 Phi TC to form a decent combo.  I'm thinking anywhere from the $500 - $2k range as the default to compare:
> 
> iFi Pro iDSD
> Pro iCAN
> ...


May be below the range (just inside when imported in EU), but the THX AAA 789 has enough power to drive them.


----------



## tholt (Jul 10, 2020)

rmsanger said:


> I'm trying to assemble a list of budget to mid-level amplifiers that will pair with the 1266 Phi TC to form a decent combo.  I'm thinking anywhere from the $500 - $2k range as the default to compare:
> 
> iFi Pro iDSD
> Pro iCAN
> ...



A few I've tried in my travels that weren't bad:

Violectric V281
Wells Audio Milo
Monolith Cavalli Liquid Platinum
A few I haven't tried but have read were ok:

Rogue RH-5
Lyr 3
Bryston BHA-1
In general, I think it's tough to find an 'affordable' amp that is optimal for the abyss. If you can afford the Abyss (new or used) it's equally important to find an amp that can bring out their best. If not, you're not really getting what you paid for. That said, I've read good things about the FA-10 in your list and I'd be interested to hear it.


----------



## dotashope

Hi all, quick question here. Why does the ab1266 have dual 3 pin xlr instead of other connectors? Is the ground pin left open or all 3 pins are wired to the driver, like whats the wiring? Thanks


----------



## F208Frank

dotashope said:


> Hi all, quick question here. Why does the ab1266 have dual 3 pin xlr instead of other connectors? Is the ground pin left open or all 3 pins are wired to the driver, like whats the wiring? Thanks


They have diff versions. XLR 4 pin. Dual XLR 3 pin. Single ended as well.


----------



## dotashope

F208Frank said:


> They have diff versions. XLR 4 pin. Dual XLR 3 pin. Single ended as well.


Yep I saw that on their website, but I'm referring to the headphone sockets. They used 2 mini 3 pin xlrs on the headphone instead of 4 pin mini xlrs on audeze, so I'm wondering if they bridged the ground to negative or just left the ground pin open :/


----------



## F208Frank

dotashope said:


> Yep I saw that on their website, but I'm referring to the headphone sockets. They used 2 mini 3 pin xlrs on the headphone instead of 4 pin mini xlrs on audeze, so I'm wondering if they bridged the ground to negative or just left the ground pin open :/


Ah gotcha. That I am not sure. Sorry.


----------



## dotashope

F208Frank said:


> Ah gotcha. That I am not sure. Sorry.


Thanks man! I looked everywhere online but got no answer. So I thought why not give this thread a shot.


----------



## F208Frank

dotashope said:


> Thanks man! I looked everywhere online but got no answer. So I thought why not give this thread a shot.


In that case if you really need to know I suggest you call abyss directly tomorrow off the number on their website.

Kindly report back onto thread with info because sharing is caring aight? Lol


----------



## dotashope

F208Frank said:


> In that case if you really need to know I suggest you call abyss directly tomorrow off the number on their website.
> 
> Kindly report back onto thread with info because sharing is caring aight? Lol


Yep! I'll shoot them an email and see if they respond since I'm just curious about their wiring. Imagine a setup where everything is perfectly connected from dac to phones with 3 pin xlrs.. It's wonderful but probably they either left the ground pin open or bridged it with the negative


----------



## F208Frank

dotashope said:


> Yep! I'll shoot them an email and see if they respond since I'm just curious about their wiring. Imagine a setup where everything is perfectly connected from dac to phones with 3 pin xlrs.. It's wonderful but probably they either left the ground pin open or bridged it with the negative


Please report back here when convenient, thank you.


----------



## dotashope

F208Frank said:


> Please report back here when convenient, thank you.


Will do!


----------



## Jon L

dotashope said:


> Thanks man! I looked everywhere online but got no answer. So I thought why not give this thread a shot.



This is the diagram I made after checking the connections myself.




0609202102_1591763755077_1591801407022 by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## drc73rp

mulder01 said:


> Looks like your 2 extra pins are just ground and not actually connected to the headphone.


 Dug this up from a very old post. Hopefully we get confirmation from Joe about this.


----------



## dotashope

Jon L said:


> This is the diagram I made after checking the connections myself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep I got the reply from Abyss and it is like your drawing indicates. Pin 1 is negative and 3 is positive, pin 2 is left open. Kinda sad cuz I was hoping for all 3 pins to be utilized


----------



## Hoegaardener70

F208Frank said:


> Anyone feeling little mean and not really giving "Tidal Rising" a chance on Tidal? I have not heard a single song I liked from there.
> 
> U1 (Lumin) for sale in the For Sale section if interested.




Yes, total trash. Always.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

rmsanger said:


> I'm trying to assemble a list of budget to mid-level amplifiers that will pair with the 1266 Phi TC to form a decent combo.  I'm thinking anywhere from the $500 - $2k range as the default to compare:
> 
> iFi Pro iDSD
> Pro iCAN
> ...




I use the Pro iCan with the ab-1266, and I bet it will beat most offerings double or triple the price (at least for my preferences). I also have the ifi Pro iDSD, it will not give you the oomph you need with the Abyss.


----------



## Brahmsian

What material is the 1266TC diaphragm? I hear it's not mylar. 

How are they with classical? Can anyone comment on 1266 vs. HD800 S vs. Utopia vs. a totl Stax specifically for classical/orchestral or even in any other respect? Would 1266 be the most comfortable?


----------



## jlbrach

IMHO the TC is marvelous with all styles of music...the bass makes it a favorite for rock, the huge soundstage makes a pleasure for classical and jazz especially acoustic jazz....simply marvelous..I havent heard much of the stax but the TC outclasses both the utopia and 800 easily


----------



## F208Frank

Word. J. Word.


----------



## zworykin

dotashope said:


> Yep I got the reply from Abyss and it is like your drawing indicates. Pin 1 is negative and 3 is positive, pin 2 is left open. Kinda sad cuz I was hoping for all 3 pins to be utilized



Out of curiosity, what would the third pin actually be utilized for, in your ideal version?


----------



## MachineGunz (Jul 14, 2020)

Hi,

I will try to make it as short as possible.

I need your opinions on two subjects:

I currently have an LCD-X and I have been looking for an upgrade. I wanted to hear what the TOTL was about.

In March I went to Headphone Auditions in Amsterdam to compare the TOTL headphones and discover my TOTL system.

I ended up liking the Abyss phi TC -

I listened to the phi TC on the Abyss stack (Formula s, powerman, sagra dac) and with the Chord Dave + Mscaler instead of the Sagra dac.

I also tried them on the Chord hugo tt2.

I was blown away by the quality and especially with the bass. For me it felt like having a giant subwoofer in my head that was playing so loud but somehow it wasn't too powerful and didn't affect the rest of the song.

I ended up buying a hugo tt2 and now I am saving up to get an Abyss phi TC.



1. Bass

I really like bass, I listen to mostly metal and electronic music (And I generally like music with bass in it) -  And with the Phi TC I was getting the bass I was always dreaming about.

It was just perfect! - That was the only time I ever experienced "Soundstage bass" - The bass was completely separate from the rest of the song.

It was playing at it's own space - So I was able to hear both the bass and the rest of the song perfectly.

Ever since experiencing that I have been saving for the Abyss phi TC and my mind was completely set on getting it.

I now started reading that people might prefer the Fostex th900mk2. That's a model that I didn't hear but I now remembered that the th900 are regarded as some of the best bass headphones you can buy (if not the best).

And I actually saw that here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sold-abyss-1266-phi-tc-lite.936370/

Bonddam sold his Phi TC with the intent to possibly getting the th900mk2.

He said that he found to sound he liked - Here is a copy - paste of what he wrote: bass like 900 mk2 bass or Empryean. the 1266 is for a real audiophile not a bass head. The bass 1266 is awesome linear bass all the way down.

I sent him a PM and he said that the Phi TC doesn't have the slam he gets from his Kennerton Gjallarhorn (I never heard about them) and that he prefers the empyreans for the mid bass attack.

And in another case: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/th900mk2-sapphire-blue-anniversary-edition.936039/

The seller of the th900mk2 said this:  I own the Abyss TC, IMHO this goes toe to toe with as an all-out aural assault weapon.

So that makes me wonder if the th900mk2 can actually be equal to the phi tc.

For me the strongest point of the Phi TC was the incredible bass - With the insane SLAM, power, 3d like nature and extension. Everything about it shocked me, I never heard anything like it.

Can you get a similar experience with the th900mk2 even though it is much cheaper?



2. Phi / cc vs phi TC - While I was auditioning the phi TC I also compared them to the Phi CC.

From what I read online - The differences between the Phi / phi cc to the Phi TC were small and were not revolutionary.

They were considered to be incremental improvements that just refine the already amazing sound quality.

To my ears that was not the case. In terms of soundstage, detail ,separation they were very similar BUT -  The phi TC were hugely better in terms of bass.

The phi TC barely had any bass quantity and the bass was barely felt.

It was not even close - When the phi cc did deliver bass it felt hollow and like an imitation of the Phi TC.

They were both tested with both the normal pads and the cc pads, With the stock cable and were connected to the Abyss stack and the formula s + powerman + chord Dave + chord mscaler.

Again - That is the complete opposite of what I've read.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## radnor

MachineGunz said:


> Hi,
> 
> I will try to make it as short as possible.
> 
> ...


Noway is fostek anywhere near TC. Dont listen to this BS.


----------



## ken6217

MachineGunz said:


> Hi,
> 
> I will try to make it as short as possible.
> 
> ...



That's the problem with reading.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> That's the problem with reading.


That's what Head-Fi is all about!


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> That's what Head-Fi is all about!



But, not to the exclusion of listening for yourself.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> But, not to the exclusion of listening for yourself.


Listening for yourself goes against the tenets of the Head-Fi way.


----------



## llamaluv

paradoxper said:


> That's what Head-Fi is all about!





ken6217 said:


> But, not to the exclusion of listening for yourself.



Yea, I was going to say, I thought head-fi was about talking, not listening.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Listening for yourself goes against the tenets of the Head-Fi way.



Well, you can't argue with that.


----------



## tholt

MachineGunz said:


> To my ears that was not the case. In terms of soundstage, detail ,separation they were very similar BUT - The phi TC were hugely better in terms of bass.
> 
> The phi TC barely had any bass quantity and the bass was barely felt.


I'm not disputing your experience, nor any perceived differences between TC and Phi CC, but bass is hugely affected by fit and adjustment. I assume your last sentence you meant the Phi CC, not TC. I own the CC and what you describe is not at all the case for me.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I have the Fostex th900mk2s and TCs. The TCs, with proper amplification and the earpads slightly off the ear, have better bass, both in quantity and quality. That’s off a WA33, DAVE/Mscaler combo. So that’s like $25K investment (not including cables, streamer, reclocker, etc.).

The th900mk2s can be driven adequately with my DragonFly. The bass is amazing, in terms of quantity and quality (better than everything except the TCs). I can’t believe the $200 DragonFly can drive them with that much bass. So, with just having the th900mk2 and the DragonFly you are only at $1800.

Yes, the TCs have better bass quantity and quality (along with everything else sound wise). But, that’s at $25K, which is a big investment. The th900mk2/DragonFly is only $1800 and you can have the 2nd best bass headphones, in my opinion.

If you want better sound quality, the best bass, the best everything else, and money isn’t an issue, go with the TCs. They are the best headphones you can buy. But, if you are on a budget, the th900mks will give you the bass you are looking for.


----------



## dotashope

zworykin said:


> Out of curiosity, what would the third pin actually be utilized for, in your ideal version?


I have no idea :/ Mainly was hoping for something different than conventional headphone wiring


----------



## Jon L

My Elekit 300B SET amp back in action after upgrading to TKD volume pot and previously Jupiter copper foil coupling caps.
Too bad Abyss Phi TC doesn't work from the front headphone jack, but TC does sound sublime from the speaker posts   




0715201127 by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## tholt

Jon L said:


> My Elekit 300B SET amp back in action after upgrading to TKD volume pot and previously Jupiter copper foil coupling caps.
> Too bad Abyss Phi TC doesn't work from the front headphone jack, but TC does sound sublime from the speaker posts
> 
> 
> ...


Nice. What's the power output?


----------



## Jon L

Spec says 9.2 watts/channel but more likely the usual 7-8 watts from 300B at reasonable THD..


----------



## drc73rp

Jon L said:


> Spec says 9.2 watts/channel but more likely the usual 7-8 watts from 300B at reasonable THD..


 Where do you usually end up with the volume control when you listen with the 1266?


----------



## ken6217

AnaKinDV8 said:


> Where do you usually end up with the volume control when you listen with the 1266?



if you asked that question, you asked to also ask what’s the output voltage of the DAC.


----------



## MachineGunz

radnor said:


> Noway is fostek anywhere near TC. Dont listen to this BS.



I figured as much, Just wanted to get opinions.



ken6217 said:


> That's the problem with reading.



Indeed.



ken6217 said:


> But, not to the exclusion of listening for yourself.



I will definitely buy the Phi TC, Nothing can change that, It was just surprising to me that people prefer the bass of the fostex, Since the phi tc were amazing, And they perform amazingly well in every other category.

I don't want to make any mistakes with this purchase and miss out on any other possible headphones.





tholt said:


> I'm not disputing your experience, nor any perceived differences between TC and Phi CC, but bass is hugely affected by fit and adjustment. I assume your last sentence you meant the Phi CC, not TC. I own the CC and what you describe is not at all the case for me.



I will send you a PM about this.



Ciggavelli said:


> I have the Fostex th900mk2s and TCs. The TCs, with proper amplification and the earpads slightly off the ear, have better bass, both in quantity and quality. That’s off a WA33, DAVE/Mscaler combo. So that’s like $25K investment (not including cables, streamer, reclocker, etc.).
> 
> The th900mk2s can be driven adequately with my DragonFly. The bass is amazing, in terms of quantity and quality (better than everything except the TCs). I can’t believe the $200 DragonFly can drive them with that much bass. So, with just having the th900mk2 and the DragonFly you are only at $1800.
> 
> ...



Thanks again! You helped me before when I asked for advice for a TOTL system.
You are awesome!


----------



## Jon L

AnaKinDV8 said:


> Where do you usually end up with the volume control when you listen with the 1266?



I have my Qutest DAC output reduced to 1V and volume pot maxed out on the amp to minimize the pot's effects.
Then the Foobar's volume control never even reaches half at skull-crushing volume levels for me.

As an aside, ever since I got the Raal SR1a, I've noted the need to change TC's stock cable to compete with Raal at its strengths:  resolution, speed, especially with 300B tube amp.  Something like Norne Silvergarde S3 works great in that setting.


----------



## mat.1

Can someone share some opinion on amp for abyss 1266 TC,
Woo audio Wa 33 or using mcintosh C2700 + MC 152 amp ?


----------



## iFi audio

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I also have the ifi Pro iDSD, it will not give you the oomph you need with the Abyss.



Good to hear that Pro iCAN works for your Abyss though. We're getting asked about these cans a lot lately!


----------



## 340519

Still waiting. Been a long wait. Very much looking forward to getting these.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

iFi audio said:


> Good to hear that Pro iCAN works for your Abyss though. We're getting asked about these cans a lot lately!



Yes, the Pro iCan work very well with the ab-1266 tc. Love the combo ...


----------



## iFi audio

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Yes, the Pro iCan work very well with the ab-1266 tc. Love the combo ...



One last thing to ask: tube mode with the 1266, right  ?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

iFi audio said:


> One last thing to ask: tube mode with the 1266, right  ?




Yes, that is correct 

By the way, what would be the impact of using BOTH idsd and iCan in tube mode?


----------



## yagislav

For those who run the 1266TC with Formula S, prefer high gain or low gain?


----------



## jlbrach

high gain for sure..no contest IMHO


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jul 16, 2020)

mat.1 said:


> Can someone share some opinion on amp for abyss 1266 TC,
> Woo audio Wa 33 or using mcintosh C2700 + MC 152 amp ?


I have the WA33. I absolutely love it with my TCs (and Susvaras).  I can’t recommend them enough. But, make sure to budget in an additional $4K for upgraded tubes (which really do sound better).

I previously ran my TCs off my old Chord Hugo TT2. They worked fine, or so I thought, until I got my WA33. The TT2 was under powering them a lot. I jumped to the WA33 and the bass improved noticeably.

I think a lot of people use that Eleven Audio XI headphone amp and speaker amps to drive their TCs. I can’t speak to how well they sound (haven’t heard them), but they get positive feedback here


----------



## makan

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Yes, the Pro iCan work very well with the ab-1266 tc. Love the combo ...


Hope so....have a 1266 TC incoming next week or so


----------



## iFi audio

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Yes, that is correct
> 
> By the way, what would be the impact of using BOTH idsd and iCan in tube mode?



Greater harmonic content from tubes themselves. There's no harm in going this way, but it's up to one's personal taste. If I use both Pro models, one is usually set in SS, and the other in Tube/Tube+. But it also depends on music and cans connected.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

makan said:


> Hope so....have a 1266 TC incoming next week or so



Don't worry, you'll have fun.


----------



## ken6217

makan said:


> Hope so....have a 1266 TC incoming next week or so



Don’t worry. There are not a lot of no brainers in audio, but the TC is.


----------



## 340519

I'm hoping mine ship next week as well.


----------



## jlbrach

if you can swing the cash the TC is as close to a slam dunk as there is in this hobby


----------



## F208Frank

jlbrach said:


> if you can swing the cash the TC is as close to a slam dunk as there is in this hobby


You forgot to mention which kind of slam dunk, I would say it is the "Vince Carter jumping over a guy at the Olympics" type of slam dunk with the "ROAR" at the end. Youtube that!


----------



## yagislav (Jul 18, 2020)

Recently acquired the Formula S (rca inputs) + Powerman. Used it with Schiit Yggdrasil and Metrum Onyx DAC via USB. I believe both the outputs on these DACs are 2.0V using single ended.

I am getting popping noises randomly while listening to music. I am assuming these DACs are causing clipping which in turn causes the pop noises? I searched up the specs of the Formula S and its input sensitivty is 1000mV (1V), does this mean I can only feed it a DAC outputting 1V? If this is the case I need to start exploring DACs to go with this stack. Thinking about the SagraDAC since its made to synergize but it has been difficult finding a used one on the market.

Edit: Just borrowed a Chord Qutest and tested it via USB on both 1V and 2V setting, no more random popping noises. So that's two Chord DACs that dont have popping. I dont think it can be that BOTH the Yggdrasil and Onyx are faulty creating the pop noises that would be too coincidental. If anybody has any suggestions or idea of what it may be, please advise!

Thx


----------



## jlbrach

I use the chord dave at 3v with the formula s without any issues


----------



## yagislav

jlbrach said:


> I use the chord dave at 3v with the formula s without any issues


To be honest I’m a bit confused also. I had ran the Dave into it on DAC mode as well with no issues. I don’t have the Dave anymore but with these two other DACs I’ve been trying they’ve all caused this popping noise. I looked at the output of the xi audio SagraDAC and its 1.4Vrms from the single ended out so I thought maybe it’s just something Chord DACs do you prevent any clipping even at 3V output.


----------



## jlbrach

I have had zero clipping or problems at 3V on the dave...cant speak to the other DAC's but I do know for some reason some amps do seem to cause issues with different amps due to settings etc....I have only used the Dave for several years so that is all I can speak to but I will say that I have been to can jam and listened to the amp with other DAC's and never perceived any issues


----------



## jlbrach

I would call the guys at abyss they are very helpful and I am sure they can help you or point you in the right direction since the amp was tuned to work with the abyss


----------



## 340519

jlbrach said:


> if you can swing the cash the TC is as close to a slam dunk as there is in this hobby


Can't wait to get them.


----------



## radnor (Jul 18, 2020)

jlbrach said:


> if you can swing the cash the TC is as close to a slam dunk as there is in this hobby


agree for sitting in position. however I rank portability higher... and right now H2GO + 4Z is the endgame in that regard. for seated 4z + mtt2 is great... but I would really need to be sitting A LOT in one position to justify the TC as portability is out of the question. Looking at the headfi landscape today... Id say one of the best matrixs would be... 4Z on H2GO for on the go... throw in an IEM (Z1R or Sultan)... seated TC + MTT2 or Bartok + the Bakoon for good measure... and also have a closed in the stable... MDR Z1R or something else.... thats it... your done... for now!


----------



## 340519

radnor said:


> agree for sitting in position. however I rank portability higher... and right now H2GO + 4Z is the endgame in that regard. for seated 4z + mtt2 is nice... but I would really need to be sitting ALOT in one position to justify the TC. Looking at the headfi landscape today... Id say one of the best matrixs would be... 4Z on H2GO for on the go... throw in an IEM (Z1R or Sultan)... seated TC + MTT2 or Bartok + the Bakoon for good measure... and also have a closed in the stable... MDR Z1R or something else.... thats it... your done... for now!


I love the Z1Rs.


----------



## radnor

dmdm said:


> I love the Z1Rs.


IER or MDR?


----------



## 340519

radnor said:


> IER or MDR?


Sorry mdr.


----------



## radnor

dmdm said:


> Sorry mdr.


its a great all rounder... 4Z much better. I dont think I will get rid of it... will use as my out and around closed.


----------



## JLoud

I like my Z1R driven by an A&K se100. Nice portable combo.


----------



## 340519

radnor said:


> its a great all rounder... 4Z much better. I dont think I will get rid of it... will use as my out and around closed.


I have the lcd 4 as well.


----------



## radnor

dmdm said:


> I have the lcd 4 as well.


TC VS 4??? anything the 4 is winning on?


----------



## 340519

radnor said:


> TC VS 4??? anything the 4 is winning on?


I don't have the tcs yet so the jury is out.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

radnor said:


> agree for sitting in position. however I rank portability higher... and right now H2GO + 4Z is the endgame in that regard.



That, or change 4Z into Diana. I always feel LCD is too bulky to carry around, even for transportable purpose. Not to mention it take too much space when travel.


----------



## radnor

TheMiddleSky said:


> That, or change 4Z into Diana. I always feel LCD is too bulky to carry around, even for transportable purpose. Not to mention it take too much space when travel.


I’ve heard that Diana does not have the lower end meat the 4Z has.. 4z magic synergy with H2go.


----------



## Clive101

Please help
Does anyone use these Abyss 1266 lying down as reading through the tread the headphones are very fit dependant (lose fitting over the ears). 
So does lying down on say a bed alter the SQ as apposed sitting in a chair owing to the headphones slipping to a different position ?


----------



## ufospls2

Clive101 said:


> Please help
> Does anyone use these Abyss 1266 lying down as reading through the tread the headphones are very fit dependant (lose fitting over the ears).
> So does lying down on say a bed alter the SQ as apposed sitting in a chair owing to the headphones slipping to a different position ?



I use them both lying down in bed and sitting up. As long as you are using a pillow, which will support them somewhat, you will be ok.


----------



## radnor

Clive101 said:


> Please help
> Does anyone use these Abyss 1266 lying down as reading through the tread the headphones are very fit dependant (lose fitting over the ears).
> So does lying down on say a bed alter the SQ as apposed sitting in a chair owing to the headphones slipping to a different position ?


i use mine upside down while on my inversion table... hearing seems enhanced with blood rushing to my head... better top end.... more sparkles.


----------



## Ciggavelli

radnor said:


> i use mine upside down while on my inversion table... hearing seems enhanced with blood rushing to my head... better top end.... more sparkles.


----------



## 340519

ufospls2 said:


> I use them both lying down in bed and sitting up. As long as you are using a pillow, which will support them somewhat, you will be ok.


Good question. I was wondering this as well.


----------



## 340519

Ciggavelli said:


>


Yup taking the piss.


----------



## ken6217

dmdm said:


> Good question. I was wondering this as well.



In other words, he has a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.


----------



## 340519

ken6217 said:


> In other words, he has a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.


Lol, but I'd like to lie down with these as well,   so valid question.


----------



## ken6217

dmdm said:


> Lol, but I'd like to lie down with these as well,   so valid question.



I wasn’t referring to the question. I was referring to his facetious answer.


----------



## F208Frank

radnor said:


> i use mine upside down while on my inversion table... hearing seems enhanced with blood rushing to my head... better top end.... more sparkles.


LOL this was so stupid but made me laugh because I used to have an inversion table and can imagine this ridiculous image so vividly.


----------



## Litlgi74

dmdm said:


> Good question. I was wondering this as well.


The majority of my listening time is done laying down in bed. The bass is slightly less pronounced versus sitting up... But as long as your pillow is supporting the headphones and not covering them... it's not a deal breaker.


----------



## jlbrach

the abyss TC is a HP that is perhaps the best or among the very best 2 or 3 HP's available...it is not meant to be portable or to lie in bed with...I wear mine on bed sitting upright with my back supported and it is perfect....


----------



## 340519

jlbrach said:


> the abyss TC is a HP that is perhaps the best or among the very best 2 or 3 HP's available...it is not meant to be portable or to lie in bed with...I wear mine on bed sitting upright with my back supported and it is perfect....


C'mon I want to lie down and chill/fall asleep listening a lot of the time. If I couldn't lie down with the tcs that would be a deal breaker.


----------



## F208Frank

From previous posts, it looks like you definitely can though. I never lie down with mine as my components are only near my office desk so I am forced to listen on office chair.

Still no complaints from me, despite imagining it be relaxing with it lying down.


----------



## Litlgi74

dmdm said:


> C'mon I want to lie down and chill/fall asleep listening a lot of the time. If I couldn't lie down with the tcs that would be a deal breaker.


Unless you sleep on your back... You may get hurt if you fall asleep with TCs on... Lol


----------



## ufospls2

jlbrach said:


> the abyss TC is a HP that is perhaps the best or among the very best 2 or 3 HP's available...it is not meant to be portable or to lie in bed with...I wear mine on bed sitting upright with my back supported and it is perfect....



Nah man. There is no difference in sound quality for me lying in bed listening before I go to sleep, vs sitting upright during the day. Maybe I just figured out a system that works for me.


----------



## jlbrach

hey, I didnt mean to say there is anything wrong with lying down in bed with the TC or that it couldnt sound good if you found a way to comfortably do it...only that the HP wasnt designed for it...


----------



## Jon L

Found adapters for Hifiman 3.5 mm plug to Abyss mini 3-pin XLR on Amazon!   
This is AKG K702/Q701/K7xx adapter, but the pinouts work out perfectly because pin 2 is not connected on the Abyss side. 
Build and sound quality are excellent, with the only caveat that with my highly slippery Eidolic 3.5 mm plug, weight of the cable can make the plug slip out slightly with headbanging.  I may use a piece of packing tape. 
Norne Silvergarde S3 cable on the Abyss via my 300B amp sounds glorious, both more revealing yet smoother than stock JPS cable. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CTTH00C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1




0719201323 by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## jlbrach

that looks a bit dubious to me in terms of usage, as for sound I take your word


----------



## llamaluv

Jon L said:


> Found adapters for Hifiman 3.5 mm plug to Abyss mini 3-pin XLR on Amazon!


Nice tip! I've accumulated an ever-growing collection of adapters from affinitycables (which has started getting a little pricey), and never really know what adapters I'll end up needing due to playing musical chairs with both headphones and headphone cables. 

At this price, it seems like a no-brainer.


----------



## Brahmsian

In his Inner Fidelity review, Tyll Hertsens says something that pretty much makes me cross out the 1266 from any classical music headphones list. He says that the 1266 "also had a problem with too much very high frequency treble grunge around these transitions...In complex music--massed strings, brass sections, stuff like that--it did tend to get a bit confusing. That was kind of troublesome."

I should say that Hertsens really liked this headphone in general, but anybody who listens to symphony orchestras would have a problem with his description of the treble. If it can't handle massed strings and brass sections, that pretty much kills it for classical unless you're exclusively listening to chamber music.


----------



## koven

My ghetto 'stand'..


----------



## ufospls2

Brahmsian said:


> In his Inner Fidelity review, Tyll Hertsens says something that pretty much makes me cross out the 1266 from any classical music headphones list. He says that the 1266 "also had a problem with too much very high frequency treble grunge around these transitions...In complex music--massed strings, brass sections, stuff like that--it did tend to get a bit confusing. That was kind of troublesome."
> 
> I should say that Hertsens really liked this headphone in general, but anybody who listens to symphony orchestras would have a problem with his description of the treble. If it can't handle massed strings and brass sections, that pretty much kills it for classical unless you're exclusively listening to chamber music.



You have to remember that when Tyll reviewed these it was an early version of the _original_ AB-1266, which *ALSO *had a fault. We are now two driver version updates on from that original driver that Tyll reviewed, and they also don't have a defect all going well


----------



## jlbrach

Brahmsian said:


> In his Inner Fidelity review, Tyll Hertsens says something that pretty much makes me cross out the 1266 from any classical music headphones list. He says that the 1266 "also had a problem with too much very high frequency treble grunge around these transitions...In complex music--massed strings, brass sections, stuff like that--it did tend to get a bit confusing. That was kind of troublesome."
> 
> I should say that Hertsens really liked this headphone in general, but anybody who listens to symphony orchestras would have a problem with his description of the treble. If it can't handle massed strings and brass sections, that pretty much kills it for classical unless you're exclusively listening to chamber music.



that review is like 5 yrs old and was the very first iteration of the 1266...the TC Is a different beast...kind of silly to use that review


----------



## makan

koven said:


> My ghetto 'stand'..


That’s not ghetto at all...spares th headband. May I ask where you got it from and what is the maximum thickness it can clip?


----------



## koven

makan said:


> That’s not ghetto at all...spares th headband. May I ask where you got it from and what is the maximum thickness it can clip?



Max clip is 2.05" or 5.2cm, I got it here, $30 for 2.. not bad, not as cool as the Abyss stand but it'll do!


----------



## tholt (Jul 19, 2020)

koven said:


> My ghetto 'stand'..


The only thing ghetto is the price. They work great! I've been using them for almost a year. They're perfect if you have a shelf or ledge to attach them to. BTW - nice photo!

2 for $25 + tax with no writing FYI https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PFV1NQX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## tholt

jlbrach said:


> that review is like 5 yrs old and was the very first iteration of the 1266...the TC Is a different beast...kind of silly to use that review


Lol. As soon as I read that comment re: Tyll's review I was like, 'I hope he's ready to get schooled'


----------



## Jon L (Jul 19, 2020)

koven said:


> My ghetto 'stand'..



That's exactly what I need to do for my Abyss, since I have no more desktop space left.  My desk is 2" thick, so ordered two of these.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q51FM5T/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## 340519

Jon L said:


> That's exactly what I need to do for my Abyss, since I have no more desktop space left.  My desk is 2" thick, so ordered two of these.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q51FM5T/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


That's fantastic. I might pick up 2 of those.


----------



## 340519 (Jul 20, 2020)

Ordered 2! 21.99 CAD each.


----------



## Randy Myers (Jul 20, 2020)

I just got my Abyss cans.  I was trying to find an Abyss fan club thread and was directed here.  I noticed going through a lot of the almost 800 pages that this thread is really for the AB1266.  I  picked up a pair of the Abyss Diana Phi. I hope it is not an issue to join in on this thread . So far I am blown away! 


 

My gear for headphone listening is:  Falcon NW PC which I customized as a dedicated Music Server, running Roon and HQPlayer, usb to a Wyred 4 Sound Recovery to a T+A DAC 8 DSD upsampling everything to DSD512.  I am using a Bryston BHA-1 to power my Diana Phi's.  I use a Black Dragon 4-pin XLR cable and use the Abyss stock cable with my Astell&Kern portable at work,  I figured the Diana Phi are about as good as I could get that I can also use at work .

Anyway, hopefully it is ok to be a proud owner of Diana Phi's in this thread.


----------



## tholt (Jul 21, 2020)

Randy Myers said:


> I just got my Abyss cans.  I was trying to find an Abyss fan club thread and was directed here.  I noticed going through a lot of the almost 800 pages that this thread is really for the AB1266.  I  picked up a pair of the Abyss Diana Phi. I hope it is not an issue to join in on this thread . So far I am blown away!
> 
> My gear for headphone listening is:  Falcon NW PC which I customized as a dedicated Music Server, running Roon and HQPlayer, usb to a Wyred 4 Sound Recovery to a T+A DAC 8 DSD upsampling everything to DSD512.  I am using a Bryston BHA-1 to power my Diana Phi's.  I use a Black Dragon 4-pin XLR cable and use the Abyss stock cable with my Astell&Kern portable at work,  I figured the Diana Phi are about as good as I could get that I can also use at work .
> 
> Anyway, hopefully it is ok to be a proud owner of Diana Phi's in this thread.


Randy, small world my man. Tony H here. Welcome to the Abyss club! This thread is primarily about the 1266, not sure if there is a Diana thread? Anyway, congrats on the Dianas!


----------



## Randy Myers

Hey Tony, I thought that was you!  How ya doin dude?  So you are an Abyss fanatic also .  I have been wanting Abyss every since I heard about them, but I also needed something I could take to work.

I was surprised they are made in my old stomping grounds in upstate New York!


----------



## tholt

I am. Abyss is it. The D's are way more portable, so if that's what you need, you've got the right cans!


----------



## Randy Myers

I have been very impressed with these Abyss so far.  From what I read and what JPS has stated the Diana Phi are much closer to the AB1266 than the original Diana's.  They actually use the exact same Phi driver now which is very cool in my view.  They are very comfortable and sound absolutely amazing!  I have never heard the TC's but I imagine they are beyond amazing.


----------



## Slim1970

Randy Myers said:


> I have been very impressed with these Abyss so far.  From what I read and what JPS has stated the Diana Phi are much closer to the AB1266 than the original Diana's.  They actually use the exact same Phi driver now which is very cool in my view.  They are very comfortable and sound absolutely amazing!  I have never heard the TC's but I imagine they are beyond amazing.


The Diana Phi's has the old Abyss Phi drivers. The Abyss Phi TC has newer drivers in them.


----------



## Randy Myers

Thank you.  I did not know they had old and new Phi drivers.  I figured you got to be getting something for the extra $1k.  Ahhh, I just read on Abyss's site that the Diana Phi's use the same Phi driver as the AB1266 Phi CC.  The TC does have a newer Phi driver... so thank you for the info.  I am still in learning mode on Abyss .

I do know that JPS have stated they are much closer to the current AB1266 than the original Diana's were.  The TC's must be amazing; I know the Diana Phi's have impressed the heck out of me and I assume the AB1266 are much better.

Hopefully all Abyss owners are welcome in this thread .... I know the Diana Phi's are not the AB1266 Phi TC's but they still are $4k headphones and work very well with my portable so I can use them at home and at work!  Therefore for my purposes they are a better match.  I also know they are a huge improvement over my previous "portable" headphones, the Audeze LCD-i4's.

BTW the Bryston is fairly amazing driving them, but it is a much better amp when using a Balanced cable with it.


----------



## Slim1970

Randy Myers said:


> Thank you.  I did not know they had old and new Phi drivers.  I figured you got to be getting something for the extra $1k.  Ahhh, I just read on Abyss's site that the Diana Phi's use the same Phi driver as the AB1266 Phi CC.  The TC does have a newer Phi driver... so thank you for the info.  I am still in learning mode on Abyss .
> 
> I do know that JPS have stated they are much closer to the current AB1266 than the original Diana's were.  The TC's must be amazing; I know the Diana Phi's have impressed the heck out of me and I assume the AB1266 are much better.
> 
> ...


There's actually a separate thread for the Diana Phi's here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diana-the-second-release-by-abyss-headphones.777618/


----------



## 340519

Randy Myers said:


> I just got my Abyss cans.  I was trying to find an Abyss fan club thread and was directed here.  I noticed going through a lot of the almost 800 pages that this thread is really for the AB1266.  I  picked up a pair of the Abyss Diana Phi. I hope it is not an issue to join in on this thread . So far I am blown away!
> 
> My gear for headphone listening is:  Falcon NW PC which I customized as a dedicated Music Server, running Roon and HQPlayer, usb to a Wyred 4 Sound Recovery to a T+A DAC 8 DSD upsampling everything to DSD512.  I am using a Bryston BHA-1 to power my Diana Phi's.  I use a Black Dragon 4-pin XLR cable and use the Abyss stock cable with my Astell&Kern portable at work,  I figured the Diana Phi are about as good as I could get that I can also use at work .
> 
> Anyway, hopefully it is ok to be a proud owner of Diana Phi's in this thread.


Loving the bha1!


----------



## F208Frank (Jul 21, 2020)

Randy though you are welcome here, the previous member directed you to Diana thread not to encourage you to leave but more so that you could receive more relevant information for yourself as each specific model headphone from any company for that matter has its own quirks.

Congrats on the headphone purchase!


----------



## Randy Myers

Thank you and I do appreciate it.  I will continue to watch this thread because I am enthralled with all things Abyss!  I will check out the other thread as well to see what other members have discovered with the Diana's!  They have impressed the heck out of me!


----------



## Brahmsian

ufospls2 said:


> You have to remember that when Tyll reviewed these it was an early version of the _original_ AB-1266, which *ALSO *had a fault. We are now two driver version updates on from that original driver that Tyll reviewed, and they also don't have a defect all going well


Good to hear 👍 

If there are any classical musical listeners out there who own or have heard both the TC version and the HD800, would love to hear a comparison with symphony orchestras in mind (if that is not off topic here). Or PM me.

I was watching the Abyss channel with Joe Skubinski and his sons. While I have enjoyed their conversations, I get the impression (and correct me if I'm wrong) that they do not have classical music in mind when they develop their headphones. In contrast, the way I have heard it described, the original HD800 seems to be designed specifically for classical. Currawong says that’s why a lot of listeners have a problem with it. About the 6.3 kHz peak, he says that ”with acoustic music it’s absolutely lovely. You get a sense of space, of detail with the instruments.” But switching to other kinds of music, like the Cowboy Junkies, he ran into problems. He says that is why Sennheiser developed the somewhat overly damped (his description) HD800S, I suppose trying to cater to more of a mass audience. It sounds like the original HD800 is somewhat of a special headphone for those of us who mostly listen to classical. I think having owned the HD650, which some people recommended to me for classical, biased me against the 800, since I did not end up thinking that the 650 were good for classical at all. What they did best in my opinion were vocals. But the more I research headphones, the more I think the 800 is the real deal. The problem is, I don't like to buy used headphones and the original 800 is out of production, which is why I’m still looking beyond the 800 to stuff from Stax, Abyss, and others. My HE560 actually do quite well with classical but I have had them for a few years now and like to have a second pair on hand. The 95X didn't handle classical that badly either, but the pair I got from Drop suffered from too many issues.

Anyhow, I would still love to hear impressions of the TC specifically from classical music lovers.


----------



## Slim1970

Yes @Randy Myers it was not to discourage you in any way from posting in this thread, but more of what @F208Frank said. There are headphone specific threads for just about every headphone out today. Believe me there are members here who share your joy for the Diana Phi’s. I’m one of them because they are great headphones. I recently sold my Diana Phi’s to move up to the TC’s soon. Enjoy the Diana’s!


----------



## Ciggavelli

@koven now that you joined the TC team, I'm curious as to if you have tried them out of the Bakoon yet.  If so, what are your thoughts?


----------



## jlbrach

I have had a chance to try out the bakoon 13r with the abyss TC and just as with the susvara the combo is wonderful....more than ample power...extremely detailed and quiet


----------



## koven

Ciggavelli said:


> @koven now that you joined the TC team, I'm curious as to if you have tried them out of the Bakoon yet.  If so, what are your thoughts?



Ah I no longer have the Bakoon and didn't get to try w/ TC unfortunately. Bakoon is excellent but I'm planning to go tubes now like WA33 or HA300. I have a GSX Mini and BHA-1 in the meantime. Both not bad w/ the TC!


----------



## Randy Myers

Slim1970 said:


> Yes @Randy Myers it was not to discourage you in any way from posting in this thread, but more of what @F208Frank said. There are headphone specific threads for just about every headphone out today. Believe me there are members here who share your joy for the Diana Phi’s. I’m one of them because they are great headphones. I recently sold my Diana Phi’s to move up to the TC’s soon. Enjoy the Diana’s!



No worries, and thank you.  The TCs would be great but I really wanted to be able to use them portable with my Astell&Kern also.  I have tried many different headphones and can say, without reservations that the Abyss are in another league all together.  I only imagine the TCs are even above that .


----------



## 340519

Well I just received word that my tc batch is in the final build stage and then testing. They should hopefully ship this week or next. Bryston just told me that the new bha1 that I ordered is on the burn-in bench right now and should ship this week. The bha1 will be ready and waiting for the tcs! A long wait and very excited!


----------



## Randy Myers

dmdm said:


> Well I just received word that my tc batch is in the final build stage and then testing. They should hopefully ship this week or next. Bryston just told me that the new bha1 that I ordered is on the burn-in bench right now and should ship this week. The bha1 will be ready and waiting for the tcs! A long wait and very excited!



Congratulations.  I look forward to your opinions!  Love the Bryston with my Diana Phi's so far!


----------



## koven

dmdm said:


> Well I just received word that my tc batch is in the final build stage and then testing. They should hopefully ship this week or next. Bryston just told me that the new bha1 that I ordered is on the burn-in bench right now and should ship this week. The bha1 will be ready and waiting for the tcs! A long wait and very excited!


----------



## 340519

koven said:


>


Lolololololol I love it! I showed my wife this and we had a good laugh!


----------



## ken6217

koven said:


>



You look a little heavier than I thought.


----------



## Kukuk

Just got a pair of these; I've put a couple hours on them, so not ready for a full review, but first impressions are extremely positive. Like, right out of the gate they might be my favorite headphone.

Probably the most remarkable thing about them is the fact that I can feed them absolutely garbage sound quality, and magic comes out. They create a sense of space from the most compressed, modern garbage.

Also, they're not as hard to drive as I thought they'd be. Their specs suggest that they have a lower sensitivity than my HE-560, but they get up to volume a little easier. And while my WA2 can't drive them properly, I think they sound a little more controlled versus the HE-560 from the WA2.


----------



## Roasty

Reading all these posts on the 1266 is making me really miss mine! I hope I get them back soon..


----------



## Randy Myers

Kukuk said:


> Just got a pair of these; I've put a couple hours on them, so not ready for a full review, but first impressions are extremely positive. Like, right out of the gate they might be my favorite headphone.
> 
> Probably the most remarkable thing about them is the fact that I can feed them absolutely garbage sound quality, and magic comes out. They create a sense of space from the most compressed, modern garbage.
> 
> Also, they're not as hard to drive as I thought they'd be. Their specs suggest that they have a lower sensitivity than my HE-560, but they get up to volume a little easier. And while my WA2 can't drive them properly, I think they sound a little more controlled versus the HE-560 from the WA2.



Congratulations... as a new member of the Abyss family also I am sure you will love them!


----------



## BPED

Brahmsian said:


> Good to hear 👍
> 
> If there are any classical musical listeners out there who own or have heard both the TC version and the HD800, would love to hear a comparison with symphony orchestras in mind (if that is not off topic here). Or PM me.
> 
> ...




Hello Brahmsian, I mostly listen jazz and classic music, lately I have been listening to a lot of chamber and orchestral music. I’d say the TC is great for all these genres and particularly for orchestral music. It is very detailed, it has a wide and deep soundstage, a neutral sound profile which is important to reproduce acoustic instruments and, importantly, it has the “slam/weight” to convey the feeling or orchestral sections in action. However it needs to be well amplified. I used it for some months amplified with a Dave and it is pretty good in general but severely lacking for music with high dynamic range.
Since I moved to  my current set up (see the first posts in the thread about Riviera AIC-10) I practically only listen to classic music also because it is reproduced in such an engaging, lively way.
In this thread you will find many suggestions at all price points to amplify well the TC.
I also have an Utopia which is very good for classic thanks to the great instrument separation but cannot really compete with the TC for symphonic music.

Regarding the HD800(S) (I tried both versions), I didn't do a direct comparison with the TC but heard it a few times in the past. It needs to be well amplified as well to deliver. Out of a Hugo2 it was not particularly impressive (except soundstage width), much better with a small but more powerful tube amp.  
It is an excellent headphones but I'd say the TC is better in many ways and probably similar only in terms of soundstage width. For me the key advantage of the TC is the feeling of impact, body conveyed which is missing from the Senn. Also the Senn places you a bit further away from the scene, the TC more in the middle of it, maybe less realistic but it contributes to a more visceral listening experience.
I hope it helps


----------



## makan (Jul 22, 2020)

Can someone do me a favour and measure how tall is the 1266 from the top to the bottom with the cable on and without the cable on.  I am trying to see if my headstands are tall enough.  I have a TC incoming


----------



## mat.1

makan said:


> Can someone do me a favour and measure how tall is the 1266 from the top to the bottom with the cable on and without the cable on.  I am trying to see if my headstands are tall enough.  I have a TC incoming


+/- 9 Inch 
+/- 10 Inch with connector ,but must spare some more inch for cable .


----------



## makan

mat.1 said:


> +/- 9 Inch
> +/- 10 Inch with connector ,but must spare some more inch for cable .


thanks


----------



## Kukuk

Jon L said:


> Found adapters for Hifiman 3.5 mm plug to Abyss mini 3-pin XLR on Amazon!
> This is AKG K702/Q701/K7xx adapter, but the pinouts work out perfectly because pin 2 is not connected on the Abyss side.
> Build and sound quality are excellent, with the only caveat that with my highly slippery Eidolic 3.5 mm plug, weight of the cable can make the plug slip out slightly with headbanging.  I may use a piece of packing tape.
> Norne Silvergarde S3 cable on the Abyss via my 300B amp sounds glorious, both more revealing yet smoother than stock JPS cable.
> ...



I wonder... Could I use two AKG cables for output from my TA-ZH1ES's dual-3.5mm balanced outputs?


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

I have placed a purchase order to buy some RAAL SR1a's but after readings lots of reviews and readings lots of threads on this forum, now wondering if I should be buying some  AB-1266 TC's instead !


----------



## Randy Myers

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> I have placed a purchase order to buy some RAAL SR1a's but after readings lots of reviews and readings lots of threads on this forum, now wondering if I should be buying some  AB-1266 TC's instead !




The RAAL works off speaker outputs only, correct?  Certainly has to be a consideration.  What are you planning on using for amplification with your headphones?  Standard headphone amplifiers, that work with the Abyss will not work with the RAAL, from my understanding.


----------



## paradoxper

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> I have placed a purchase order to buy some RAAL SR1a's but after readings lots of reviews and readings lots of threads on this forum, now wondering if I should be buying some  AB-1266 TC's instead !


Buy both.

This is Head-Fi.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Randy Myers said:


> The RAAL works off speaker outputs only, correct?  Certainly has to be a consideration.  What are you planning on using for amplification with your headphones?  Standard headphone amplifiers, that work with the Abyss will not work with the RAAL, from my understanding.


Hi Randy Myers,   For the RAAL's I will be using my Chord Electronics Choral UK speaker system which has a Blu MK1 CD Transporter linked to either my QBD76 DAC or my Hugo2 (with twin BNC to give 176kHz sampling rate) linked to my Prima Pre-amp to my Chord Mezzo 140 Power Amp which gives 120W RMS at 8 Ohms and 160W RMS at 4 Ohms. If this isn't enough power then I can buy another second hand Mezzo 140 and use them together as Power Bridged Mono's  to give 240W RMS per channel into 8 ohms and 320W RMS per channel into 4 ohms.
If I buy the AB-1266 TC's I would need to buy a decent headphone amp as I don't currently have one.  
At the moment I am using my Grado 3000e's linked to my Hugo 2 which sound very good.   I was going to buy a Chord Dave for them but accidently came across the RAAL's which then led me to the AB-1266 TC's.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

paradoxper said:


> Buy both.
> 
> This is Head-Fi.


Hi paradoxper,   Yes that's what a few people have said as I read they are complementary to each other.   But it will be a  huge financial outlay for me !


----------



## paradoxper

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Hi paradoxper,   Yes that's what a few people have said as I read they are complementary to each other.   But it will be a  huge financial outlay for me !


If you must consider the financial burden, then I would heavily consider a used SR1a. The simple fact is their market value has depreciated a fair amount. A consequence of hyperbole FOTM.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

paradoxper said:


> If you must consider the financial burden, then I would heavily consider a used SR1a. The simple fact is their market value has depreciated a fair amount. A consequence of hyperbole FOTM.


Yes I was thinking that but haven't seen any 2nd hand SR1a's in Europe or the UK and buying from US, by the time I pay for reasonably fast postage, UK VAT and customs duties it's getting closer to the price in Europe.   It's interesting that there are no UK Headphone or HiFi Dealers in the UK that sell them and only a small number in mainland central Europe.  
I hope they don't sound like the HD800's and the HD800S's I have owned as I found these two thin a sound and too treble hot and found the sound stage artificial !  
I think what I need to do is fly out to mainland Europe where I have placed my order (they are not due till mid August due to COVID19 and issues at the RAAL factory) and do a days worth of demoing with the AB-1266 TC's (which they also sell) connected to a Chord Dave and Blu MK2 (which they also sell) as well as the new RAAL headphone amp.


----------



## paradoxper

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Yes I was thinking that but haven't seen any 2nd hand SR1a's in Europe or the UK and buying from US, by the time I pay for reasonably fast postage, UK VAT and customs duties it's getting closer to the price in Europe.   It's interesting that there are no UK Headphone or HiFi Dealers in the UK that sell them and only a small number in mainland central Europe.
> I hope they don't sound like the HD800's and the HD800S's I have owned as I found these two thin a sound and too treble hot and found the sound stage artificial !
> I think what I need to do is fly out to mainland Europe where I have placed my order (they are not due till mid August due to COVID19 and issues at the RAAL factory) and do a days worth of demoing with the AB-1266 TC's (which they also sell) connected to a Chord Dave and Blu MK2 (which they also sell) as well as the new RAAL headphone amp.


That's likely the appropriate and smart approach. While the SR1a can do some things better than any other headphone on the planet, they're not without their own omissions.
This, as well, can be gleamed by how many decide to sell them and move on. They're a bit of a "couple-of-trick-pony" with a decidedly different sound from conventional headphones. Let your ears be the judge.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

paradoxper said:


> That's likely the appropriate and smart approach. While the SR1a can do some things better than any other headphone on the planet, they're not without their own omissions.
> This, as well, can be gleamed by how many decide to sell them and move on. They're a bit of a "couple-of-trick-pony" with a decidedly different sound from conventional headphones. Let your ears be the judge.


Thank you for your feedback paradoxper.  Much appreciated.   
I often read your very interesting threads back in the 2016 days when the BHSE and Stax 009's were the ultimate headfi back then of which I went and bought this set up and used it for a couple of years.


----------



## jlbrach

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> I have placed a purchase order to buy some RAAL SR1a's but after readings lots of reviews and readings lots of threads on this forum, now wondering if I should be buying some  AB-1266 TC's instead !


I own both and the resale of the raal has not declined any more than the value of the TC has and will....in fact at 4K for the combination of the raal and the schiit jotr for 4K I think in this crazy time it is a bargain because it is fantastic as well as very different...highly recommended


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> I own both and the resale of the raal has not declined any more than the value of the TC has and will....in fact at 4K for the combination of the raal and the schiit jotr for 4K I think in this crazy time it is a bargain because it is fantastic as well as very different...highly recommended


As lazy mouth-diarrhea tends to irk me. So $3201 street for the SR1a. Meanwhile $2600 street currently listed for SR1a. Yea. Its resale isn't dropping.


----------



## BrowChan

paradoxper said:


> As lazy mouth-diarrhea tends to irk me. So $3201 street for the SR1a. Meanwhile $2600 street currently listed for SR1a. Yea. Its resale isn't dropping.


I believe the $3201 is for the SR1a and the Jotunheim R, while the $2600 is for the SR1a and the Interface Box (which costs less than the JR). I could be wrong, but it seems to hold the same re-sale value (maybe, plus or minus $100).


----------



## paradoxper

BrowChan said:


> I believe the $3201 is for the SR1a and the Jotunheim R, while the $2600 is for the SR1a and the Interface Box (which costs less than the JR). I could be wrong, but it seems to hold the same re-sale value (maybe, plus or minus $100).


My point was more deluded perspective. As it's $4k to Jlbrach for SR1a and Jot R when in reality, SR1a and Jot R open box run $3699 and street pricing of SR1a and Jot R run $3k-ish. And that's just the bundle price-breaks.


----------



## BrowChan

paradoxper said:


> My point was more deluded perspective. As it's $4k to Jlbrach for SR1a and Jot R when in reality, SR1a and Jot R open box run $3699 and street pricing of SR1a and Jot R run $3k-ish. And that's just the bundle price-breaks.


Oh, I see. I might have misunderstood your point, haha. I was comparing the resale value when it first came into the used market to the current resale value and saying that they both are similar rather than comparing to the MSRP and open-box prices.


----------



## paradoxper

BrowChan said:


> Oh, I see. I might have misunderstood your point, haha. I was comparing the resale value when it first came into the used market to the current resale value and saying that they both are similar rather than comparing to the MSRP and open-box prices.


Yea. a bit. His initial commentary was the TC and SR1a retaining the same resale value. As pertinent to the initial fiscal responsibilities of Bonesy Jonesy, this just seemed sloppy. 

And to keep perspective, the TC has retained a relative $4200 street price.


----------



## jlbrach

paradoxper said:


> As lazy mouth-diarrhea tends to irk me. So $3201 street for the SR1a. Meanwhile $2600 street currently listed for SR1a. Yea. Its resale isn't dropping.


now do the abyss TC...which has lost approximately 20% off of retail....I just saw the raal and jotr trade for 3k which is the lowest I have seen and that is 25%....lazy mouth diarrhea is kind of unnecessary is it not?


----------



## BrowChan

paradoxper said:


> Yea. a bit. His initial commentary was the TC and SR1a retaining the same resale value. As pertinent to the initial fiscal responsibilities of Bonesy Jonesy, this just seemed sloppy.
> 
> And to keep perspective, the TC has retained a relative $4200 street price.


I think he meant he mentioned $4K to compare the price of a new SR1a and JR combo to that of the TC alone (which, as you mentioned, holds a relative $4.2K used price). I guess we'll let him clarify if he wishes to. 
I stepped in as I was confused when you made that resale value post and posted so that I may be corrected if I am wrong.


----------



## jlbrach (Jul 22, 2020)

in fact that was exactly my point, to suggest that I thought that the raal and jotr were in fact a bargain at current prices relative to other TOTL HP's but hey it must be my lazy mouth diarrhea..I did not post in order to argue about how much the used price of the raal had dropped or not, the post was to point out that I thought they offer great value at the prevailing price but whatever


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> now do the abyss TC...which has lost approximately 20% off of retail....I just saw the raal and jotr trade for 3k which is the lowest I have seen and that is 25%....lazy mouth diarrhea is kind of unnecessary is it not?


And that is a recent drop for the combo. I sold a SR1a and Jot R (with interface) for $3500 in April. 
I'm not seeing the TC continually drop. You also don't see the TC listed as often.

lazy mouth diarrhea is just emphasis. I know you have thicker skin than to be so perturbed.


----------



## paradoxper

BrowChan said:


> I think he meant he mentioned $4K to compare the price of a new SR1a and JR combo to that of the TC alone (which, as you mentioned, holds a relative $4.2K used price). I guess we'll let him clarify if he wishes to.
> I stepped in as I was confused when you made that resale value post and posted so that I may be corrected if I am wrong.


He did not explicitly state direct context. Adding to the confusion and lighting my flame in regards to an MSRP differential from street pricing.


----------



## jlbrach

again, the point of my post was to point out what I see as the relative value of the raal...the lazy mouth comment was unnecessary thick skin or not...in truth I LOVE the TC and am simply making the point that I think the raal is a terrific product


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> again, the point of my post was to point out what I see as the relative value of the raal...the lazy mouth comment was unnecessary thick skin or not...in truth I LOVE the TC and am simply making the point that I think the raal is a terrific product


And my initial point was only pointing out to Bonesy Jonesy that the SR1a has a relatively fast drop in resale value.


----------



## BrowChan

paradoxper said:


> He did not explicitly state direct context. Adding to the confusion and lighting my flame in regards to an MSRP differential from street pricing.


So it was just a confusion, after all. That is why I thought over jlbranch's post for a bit before making a different comment. But I believe we all understand now and that there is no discrepancy, haha.



jlbrach said:


> again, the point of my post was to point out what I see as the relative value of the raal...the lazy mouth comment was unnecessary thick skin or not...in truth I LOVE the TC and am simply making the point that I think the raal is a terrific product


Yeah, the TC is an awesome HP and I have not heard any other HP that handles bass like it does. RAAL is just offering more value for price and weighs lighter.


----------



## paradoxper

BrowChan said:


> So it was just a confusion, after all. That is why I thought over jlbranch's post for a bit before making a different comment. But I believe we all understand now and that there is no discrepancy, haha.
> 
> 
> Yeah, the TC is an awesome HP and I have not heard any other HP that handles bass like it does. RAAL is just offering more value for price and weighs lighter.


Well, maybe no discrepancy, maybe a little hurt feelings.   

I'm just cheeky, Jlbrach.


----------



## jlbrach

actually I do indeed have thick skin and my feelings are certainly not hurt...that said, I enjoy coming here because I love the hobby and it is a retreat from the nonsense of the outside world so I apologize if I over reacted


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> actually I do indeed have thick skin and my feelings are certainly not hurt...that said, I enjoy coming here because I love the hobby and it is a retreat from the nonsense of the outside world so I apologize if I over reacted


If you're good, I'm good, we're good.


----------



## jlbrach

we good!


----------



## MacedonianHero (Jul 22, 2020)

jlbrach said:


> we good!



Lol, I'm good too!

Paradoxper: I'm curious if you've heard the MySphere3 and how they compare? My time with the SR1a is rather limited in comparison to the MySphere's and it would help me better understand where you're comments are coming from? Thanks!

That said, the Phi TC are still very much one of only a few select headphones that I call "the best I've heard".


----------



## ken6217

And so that concludes the newest addition of Peyton Place.


----------



## paradoxper

MacedonianHero said:


> Lol, I'm good too!
> 
> Paradoxper: I'm curious if you've heard the MySphere3 and how they compare? My time with the SR1a is rather limited in comparison to the MySphere's and it would help me better understand where you're comments are coming from? Thanks!


I never had the interest to bother. Lack of belief it would somehow bring better articulation with palpable bass. Now you've baited me.


ken6217 said:


> And so that concludes the newest addition of Peyton Place.


There's always Coronation Street.


----------



## JLoud

All this talk of the SR1a with Jot going for $3000 used has me interested. I saw one listed that low and it was gone before I could even send a pm. If someone sees another come up for that give me a shout.


----------



## jlbrach

that is the sale I was referring to,as one who is lucky enough to have sampled and owned almost all of the TOTL HP's I find 3K for the combo to be a veritable bargain


----------



## Brahmsian (Jul 23, 2020)

BPED said:


> Hello Brahmsian, I mostly listen jazz and classic music, lately I have been listening to a lot of chamber and orchestral music. I’d say the TC is great for all these genres and particularly for orchestral music. It is very detailed, it has a wide and deep soundstage, a neutral sound profile which is important to reproduce acoustic instruments and, importantly, it has the “slam/weight” to convey the feeling or orchestral sections in action. However it needs to be well amplified. I used it for some months amplified with a Dave and it is pretty good in general but severely lacking for music with high dynamic range.
> Since I moved to  my current set up (see the first posts in the thread about Riviera AIC-10) I practically only listen to classic music also because it is reproduced in such an engaging, lively way.
> In this thread you will find many suggestions at all price points to amplify well the TC.
> I also have an Utopia which is very good for classic thanks to the great instrument separation but cannot really compete with the TC for symphonic music.
> ...



The wide and deep soundstage is what originally piqued my interest regarding these headphones. I heard Joe mention ”infinite space” or something like that.

Thanks for comparing them to the 800. If the TC is more visceral, that is definitely preferable to me.

Nice to hear from someone who listens to classical. My experience with headphones so far is that just because one model sounds good with popular music does not necessarily mean it sounds good with orchestral and vice versa. A lot of audio reviewers don't even mention classical or just refer to it in passing. I know most people don't listen to it, but it should be an important test when judging high-end audio IMO.


----------



## BPED

Brahmsian said:


> The wide and deep soundstage is what originally piqued my interest regarding these headphones. I heard Joe mention ”infinite space” or something like that.
> 
> Thanks for comparing them to the 800. If the TC is more visceral, that is definitely preferable to me.
> 
> Nice to hear from someone who listens to classical. My experience with headphones so far is that just because one model sounds good with popular music does not necessarily mean it sounds good with orchestral and vice versa. A lot of audio reviewers don't even mention classical or just refer to it in a passing way. I know most people don't listen to it, but it should be an important test when judging high-end audio IMO.



A couple of further thoughts: bass is definitely better with the TC. Whenever needed it goes lower and it has more physical presence (e.g. plucked basses, cello, tympani). With the right amp you also keep it tight and well defined: paradise 
Regarding soundstage, I've come to think that our brain plays a big role in the way we perceive it. Otherwise I cannot explain how people here refer to "infinite", "huge", "like a concert hall" etc. In my experience the TC will still give you a headphones' soundstage. Is it good? Yes, compared to other cans it is excellent, probably the best (bar Raal?) But it is still like listening to a miniature representation of the orchestra. Once you accept that, you are in for a treat. Still nowhere near speakers soundstage not to mention the real thing.
Also, you may want to try the Abyss before purchasing because they are very heavy and with a tricky fit. The HD800 are definitely a easier headphones to wear.


----------



## FLTWS

Even in the concert hall I find imaging specificity and sound stage creation are a much more nebulous concept than as described by many when listening to HP's or speakers. All I have to do is close my eyes and listen for several minutes from anywhere out in the hall to hear how different it sounds. And "brain involvement" may be it's attempt to reconcile what we perceive and know is different about "live" versus "reproduced" sound. And how many recordings, and I'm referring to classical music in halls or on sound stages, are actually made with the intent of capturing the sound stage? It also seems the more mics and "highlighting" used the less likely to get a good sound stage. As for music recorded in typical studios I have no point of reference having never attended a recording session.

Trying to verbalize what the ear/brain perceives can also be a part of the issue as well. Describing aural subtleties is not easy and in an attempt to get across some sound characteristics a listener may experience might take a little "emphasis".


----------



## Kukuk

Has anyone used or ordered from Corpse Cable? Are they reputable? I want to have a spare cable for these, but I refuse to spend $800 for a replacement stock cable. I might be tempted to get a Silver Dragon one, but even that's out of my comfort zone.


----------



## Brahmsian

FLTWS said:


> Even in the concert hall I find imaging specificity and sound stage creation are a much more nebulous concept than as described by many when listening to HP's or speakers. All I have to do is close my eyes and listen for several minutes from anywhere out in the hall to hear how different it sounds. And "brain involvement" may be it's attempt to reconcile what we perceive and know is different about "live" versus "reproduced" sound. And how many recordings, and I'm referring to classical music in halls or on sound stages, are actually made with the intent of capturing the sound stage? It also seems the more mics and "highlighting" used the less likely to get a good sound stage. As for music recorded in typical studios I have no point of reference having never attended a recording session.
> 
> Trying to verbalize what the ear/brain perceives can also be a part of the issue as well. Describing aural subtleties is not easy and in an attempt to get across some sound characteristics a listener may experience might take a little "emphasis".


Totally agree with you about concert halls and imaging as well as classical music recordings. And just as with a good speaker setup, a lot depends on where in the concert hall you sit. I find that the sweet spot, the seats that make you go wow, are usually orchestra level a little toward the back. No surprise that they are also the most expensive. Sitting too close to the stage isn't as impactful in my experience.

Orchestral recordings are often not very reflective of soundstage, which, as you point out, isn't even that present in the concert hall. And as you also point out, there are drawbacks with placing too many mics to record an orchestra. What I value more is visceral impact, that energy and rush, like a sonic wind, that you get in the hall when you have a good seat and that some orchestral recordings can convey, as well as a sense of depth. Good headphones can reproduce both, and it sounds like the TC has that in spades.


----------



## BPED

FLTWS said:


> Even in the concert hall I find imaging specificity and sound stage creation are a much more nebulous concept than as described by many when listening to HP's or speakers. All I have to do is close my eyes and listen for several minutes from anywhere out in the hall to hear how different it sounds. And "brain involvement" may be it's attempt to reconcile what we perceive and know is different about "live" versus "reproduced" sound. And how many recordings, and I'm referring to classical music in halls or on sound stages, are actually made with the intent of capturing the sound stage? It also seems the more mics and "highlighting" used the less likely to get a good sound stage. As for music recorded in typical studios I have no point of reference having never attended a recording session.
> 
> Trying to verbalize what the ear/brain perceives can also be a part of the issue as well. Describing aural subtleties is not easy and in an attempt to get across some sound characteristics a listener may experience might take a little "emphasis".



I experienced similar things during concerts...
I believe that when discussing hi-fi, we are actually discussing fidelity in relation to what the music producer decided to put in a record, not in relation to the musical event (live or studio). Btw that's also why with good gear some pop music sounds pretty bad and certainly worse than with portable/average gear - it has been "manufactured" that way.

Sticking to the theme of soundtstage and imaging in recorded music, there is no way to bypass the double "filter" of mic choices and mixing. Sometimes those can add something to the listening experience: a carefully placed mic can bring out some instruments that would be difficult to precisely locate and hear live (but the risk of a "hyper-realistic" effect is always there). As for the negatives, I will mention a personal obsession: jazz drum spanning from extreme left to extreme right in so many records... Why??? Nobody (not even the drummer) has ever hear that that in real life.


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 23, 2020)

@BPED , Piano's get stretched across the stage in many recordings as well, making the balance all out of proportion with the accompaniment and venue its recorded in. And what pianist sits with his back to the audience / listeners (in a chamber setting or with orchestra) with the lower registered keys well left and the higher keys well right?

@Brahmsian, right again, out in the hall the sheer volume of air the sound is working into blends the individual sounds and coupled with the acoustic properties of the hall builds support somehow to generate that impact at all frequencies. That's why, to my ears, HP's never impress me with impact the way speakers do and speakers in a typical room can't compete with the concert hall. There's something about "real" dynamic range (it doesn't matter the genre of the music being listened to) of live presentation that trounces reproduced sound. The ability to sound loud is not what its about and measurements just don't capture what one experiences live.


----------



## Brahmsian

BPED said:


> I experienced similar things during concerts...
> I believe that when discussing hi-fi, we are actually discussing fidelity in relation to what the music producer decided to put in a record, not in relation to the musical event (live or studio). Btw that's also why with good gear some pop music sounds pretty bad and certainly worse than with portable/average gear - it has been "manufactured" that way.
> 
> Sticking to the theme of soundtstage and imaging in recorded music, there is no way to bypass the double "filter" of mic choices and mixing. Sometimes those can add something to the listening experience: a carefully placed mic can bring out some instruments that would be difficult to precisely locate and hear live (but the risk of a "hyper-realistic" effect is always there). As for the negatives, I will mention a personal obsession: jazz drum spanning from extreme left to extreme right in so many records... Why??? Nobody (not even the drummer) has ever hear that that in real life.



”when discussing hi-fi, we are actually discussing fidelity in relation to what the music producer decided to put in a record, not in relation to the musical event.” 

That can't be stressed enough. Related to that is a mistake I tend to make even though I know better, which is to conclude that a headphone or speaker system sounds bad when really the problem is the recording. Just last night I was judging a new pair of headphones by playing the Manze Brahms symphony cycle and thinking they sounded kind of flat. I then listened to the Rattle recording of the same symphonies and the sonics were much better, or at least they played better on that headphone. 

As for hyper-real effects, sometimes they do add to the experience. Granting that a recording can't perfectly reproduce the live event, there is something to be said playing to the medium’s strengths and doing things that you can't do live. But there’s a fine or rather blurry line, largely subjective, between what may sound really cool and just ending up with something that sounds totally unnatural.



FLTWS said:


> @Brahmsian, right again, out in the hall the sheer volume of air the sound is working into blends the individual sounds and coupled with the acoustic properties of the hall builds support somehow to generate that impact at all frequencies. That's why, to my ears, HP's never impress me with impact the way speakers do and speakers in a typical room can't compete with the concert hall. There's something about "real" dynamic range (it doesn't matter the genre of the music being listened to) of live presentation that trounces reproduced sound. The ability to sound loud is not what its about and measurements just don't capture what one experiences live.



Agree. On the other hand, I have also encountered the opposite: having a really bad seat at the venue and, on top of that, listening to music that is not too dynamic to begin with and thinking ”This sounds better at home.” In my thirties, I attended back to back seasons. I went to as many classical music concerts and operas as I could, sometimes to multiple performances of music I really liked, and ended up spending about three grand. As I said, those good seats come at a price. I feel that a good home system is good enough that it is a viable alternative to going live all the time. And much less of a hassle.


----------



## FLTWS

Yes, live is more of a hassle but I don't go as often anymore and take the train to center city Sundays for matinees, so no driving. Although my last concert was supposed to be May 1st it got canceled, and I'm not so sure about what's going to be for the upcoming season. I don't really want to cram into a train car, masks or not, or concert hall for that matter. And the best seats are costly and I always buy in advance for the season. Usually around $165 per at the Kimmel on the first or second row 1st balcony between the corners which is my usual seating location. 2 years ago at one concert I did notice a bit too much ambience or resonance of some sort at the corners on the balcony. Not noticeable on the Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances that closed the program but the Grieg piano concerto before the intermission gave a bit of blur to the piano sound. At the halftime I asked my friend if she noticed it and she said it was obvious, and her hearing is much better than mine for sure. Prior to that I had parquet seats approximately row F to H for Beethoven and Rachmaniniov piano concertos on 2 different programs at the old Academy of Music just 2 blocks away from the Kimmell, and the sound was crystal clear.


----------



## jlbrach

BPED said:


> A couple of further thoughts: bass is definitely better with the TC. Whenever needed it goes lower and it has more physical presence (e.g. plucked basses, cello, tympani). With the right amp you also keep it tight and well defined: paradise
> Regarding soundstage, I've come to think that our brain plays a big role in the way we perceive it. Otherwise I cannot explain how people here refer to "infinite", "huge", "like a concert hall" etc. In my experience the TC will still give you a headphones' soundstage. Is it good? Yes, compared to other cans it is excellent, probably the best (bar Raal?) But it is still like listening to a miniature representation of the orchestra. Once you accept that, you are in for a treat. Still nowhere near speakers soundstage not to mention the real thing.
> Also, you may want to try the Abyss before purchasing because they are very heavy and with a tricky fit. The HD800 are definitely a easier headphones to wear.


to compare the 800s to the abyss TC is silly...they are like comparing a major league ball player and a minor leaguer...not that the 800 is bad, just simply that the TC has surpassed it completely.....as happens over time with tech.....in terms of soundstage of course it is a HP and cannot have a soundstage like speakers in a room but as far as HP's go the soundstage is huge second only to the Raal


----------



## zenworm

Kukuk said:


> Has anyone used or ordered from Corpse Cable? Are they reputable? I want to have a spare cable for these, but I refuse to spend $800 for a replacement stock cable. I might be tempted to get a Silver Dragon one, but even that's out of my comfort zone.



Go for it, been rocking mine for a few weeks. The stock 1266 cable is the worst cable I've ever dealt with. Sound was fine, but it was a pain in the rear to get it to lay and move around with it. I, too, came across Copse and liked the affordability. I'm not big on differences with cables. A trash cable will probably sound bad, but as long as a cable is well-built using good materials, that's generally good enough for me. The Copse is much more manageable and sounds just as good as stock and I'd recommend it.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jlbrach said:


> to compare the 800s to the abyss TC is silly...they are like comparing a major league ball player and a minor leaguer...not that the 800 is bad, just simply that the TC has surpassed it completely.....as happens over time with tech.....in terms of soundstage of course it is a HP and cannot have a soundstage like speakers in a room but as far as HP's go the soundstage is huge second only to the Raal



I would suggest that the HD800s are a good middle of the pack, big league ball player and the Phi TC are well...Mike Trout.


----------



## Jon L

Jon L said:


> That's exactly what I need to do for my Abyss, since I have no more desktop space left.  My desk is 2" thick, so ordered two of these.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q51FM5T/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



Gotta love the Amazon delivery speed!




0723202120 by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## nrbatista

Arrived late to the party, they’re amazing!


----------



## tholt

nrbatista said:


> Arrived late to the party, they’re amazing!


Whoa whoa whoa whoa... is that the headband it came with? Is that a new version now?


----------



## nrbatista

tholt said:


> Whoa whoa whoa whoa... is that the headband it came with? Is that a new version now?



Yes, they came with this headband! It’s comfortable but I never tried any other.


----------



## ken6217

MacedonianHero said:


> I would suggest that the HD800s are a good middle of the pack, big league ball player and the Phi TC are well...Mike Trout.



This is true.


tholt said:


> Whoa whoa whoa whoa... is that the headband it came with? Is that a new version now?



I think it’s upside down?


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 24, 2020)

No Abyss logo (unless upside down). Looks like 2 snaps (or flathead screws) per side. To facilitate "O" ring replacement?


----------



## Roasty (Jul 24, 2020)

nrbatista said:


> Yes, they came with this headband! It’s comfortable but I never tried any other.



Looks like they updated the headband! Screws to allow changing of rubber bands!


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 24, 2020)

Duplicate Post


----------



## nrbatista

ken6217 said:


> I think it’s upside down?



No, they came like this. No Abyss logo and nothing on the other side.


----------



## tholt

nrbatista said:


> Yes, they came with this headband! It’s comfortable but I never tried any other.



Dude. They are using new headbands now. Those look like they screw on/off

Kinda miss that funky Abyss logo though...


----------



## nrbatista

Roasty said:


> Looks like they updated the headband! Screws to allow changing of rubber bands!



Yes, looks like they’re meant for an easier replacement of the headband and rubber bands.


----------



## 340519

Got word that mine are shipping out Monday! Finally 6 weeks later!


----------



## Abyss Headphones

That’s pretty much the look of the new headbands. The final version will be slightly wider and will have ABYSS embossed on the leather, will begin shipping with new headphones next week. These headbands are hand-made in small batches on this side of the planet, going to be a month or so before we have any to sell separately. They are available to order. And yes they allow for easy replacement of the stretch rings, and are more comfortable.


----------



## attmci

nrbatista said:


> Arrived late to the party, they’re amazing!


I am curious what the other side of the headband looks like.


----------



## nrbatista

attmci said:


> I am curious what the other side of the headband looks like.



Here you go. Great craftsmanship and it’s very comfortable


----------



## 340519

Cool, I'm guessing mine will have this new headband.  Here's hoping.


----------



## Jon L

tholt said:


> Dude. They are using new headbands now. Those look like they screw on/off
> 
> Kinda miss that funky Abyss logo though...



Oh, man, why not have the Abyss logo on the new headband?  I *LOVE* the Abyss logo on my headband!


----------



## attmci

Jon L said:


> Oh, man, why not have the Abyss logo on the new headband?  I *LOVE* the Abyss logo on my headband!


That will cost at least a hundred bucks.JK


----------



## tholt

Abyss Headphones said:


> The final version will be slightly wider and will have ABYSS embossed on the leather





Jon L said:


> Oh, man, why not have the Abyss logo on the new headband? I *LOVE* the Abyss logo on my headband!



So the new logo will be EMBOSSED. That's pretty cool. Please stick with the 80s heavy metal style Abyss logo! I absolutely love that


----------



## joseph69 (Jul 24, 2020)

To each their own, but I think the black headband looks excellent.
I think the huge white Abyss stitched logo on the headband is sure ugly.
I mean, just how many Abyss logos do you need on the 1266?


----------



## BrowChan

joseph69 said:


> To each their own, but I think the black headband looks excellent.
> I think the huge white Abyss stitched logo on the headband is sure ugly.
> I mean, just how many Abyss logos do you need on the 1266?


Ha, would solve the issue if they made custom headbands too. I am inclined to the logo right now. But again, to quote you....


joseph69 said:


> To each their own


----------



## Articnoise

joseph69 said:


> To each their own, but I think the black headband looks excellent.
> I think the huge white Abyss stitched logo on the headband is sure ugly.
> I mean, just how many Abyss logos do you need on the 1266?



I definitely like it better without the big cheesy Abyss logo.


----------



## astrostar59

spotforscott said:


> Yes, you. What is your opinion based on?


I have heard it.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Jon L said:


> Gotta love the Amazon delivery speed!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow Jon L ,
From your great photo.....You have most probably have the top three headphones on our amazing planet along with one of the best headphone stands ..... Awesome


----------



## nrbatista

Almost 24h with the TC’s and I couldn’t almost take them off my head - just for the picture  
It’s still very early for an informed review but straight from the box I feel they are indeed in a different league, every music, every genre, all sound as it should, amazing, non fatiguing sound. I’m truly astonished!

I’m also glad I have bought the stand along with them from Headphone Auditions. I was a bit reluctant but It’s simply perfect to keep them safe and ready to put on

Now, back to the music!


----------



## Delacaff (Jul 25, 2020)

nrbatista said:


> Almost 24h with the TC’s and I couldn’t almost take them off my head - just for the picture
> It’s still very early for an informed review but straight from the box I feel they are indeed in a different league, every music, every genre, all sound as it should, amazing, non fatiguing sound. I’m truly astonished!
> 
> I’m also glad I have bought the stand along with them from Headphone Auditions. I was a bit reluctant but It’s simply perfect to keep them safe and ready to put on
> ...


I can easily understand your enjoyment my friend. Congratulations for the Abyss and welcome to the Abyss-mania. I had the stand too and I confirm that it's a great addition from Stefan. Did you give the SuperConductor a try? It takes the Abyss to a next level. As of the new headband, it's nice Joe took Head-fiers feedbacks into consideration and now offers a more comfortable headband. Can you share its dimensions to appreciate the differences with the previous one?


----------



## nrbatista (Jul 25, 2020)

Delacaff said:


> I can easily understand your enjoyment my friend. Congratulations for the Abyss and welcome to the Abyss-mania. I had the stand too and I confirm that it's a great addition from Stefan. Did you give the SuperConductor a try? It takes the Abyss to a next level. As of the new headband, it's nice Joe took Head-fiers feedbacks into consideration and now offers a more comfortable headband. Can you share its dimensions to appreciate the differences with the previous one?



Thanks! Indeed it’s my first adventure with Abyss and I can’t be happier. Unfortunately I haven’t tried the SuperConductor, not at my reach. For now I really like what I have and happy to know it can scale even more!
Regarding my headband, I understand this is not the final model so this might change I guess - mine has a maximum of more or less 6cm width and more or less 2cm thick. I can confirm it’s comfortable but I never used any other.


----------



## astrostar59

nrbatista said:


> Almost 24h with the TC’s and I couldn’t almost take them off my head - just for the picture
> It’s still very early for an informed review but straight from the box I feel they are indeed in a different league, every music, every genre, all sound as it should, amazing, non fatiguing sound. I’m truly astonished!
> 
> I’m also glad I have bought the stand along with them from Headphone Auditions. I was a bit reluctant but It’s simply perfect to keep them safe and ready to put on
> ...


Nice I could agree more.... Abyss TC rules.


----------



## nrbatista

Abyss just published a picture of the newest headband:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDKHYA6puSk/?igshid=ig75vbfzbw8a






Very cool looking!


----------



## Roasty

Nice font used! Very modern and cool. Thank goodness it's not comic sans..


----------



## koven

It looks great, tempted to order.


----------



## ken6217

nrbatista said:


> Abyss just published a picture of the newest headband:
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CDKHYA6puSk/?igshid=ig75vbfzbw8a
> 
> ...



Looks great.


----------



## yagislav

New headband is awesome. At least we can just replace the o-rings on our own now. Since mine have broke before I always get anxiety when placing them on the table or on any surface. But now that they are replaceable at a affordable cost its much less stress =D


----------



## Jon L

yagislav said:


> Since mine have broke before I always get anxiety when placing them on the table or on any surface. But now that they are replaceable at a affordable cost its much less stress =D



A great example of how inputs from internet forum can result in product improvement


----------



## llamaluv

Agreed that it looks like a marked improvement. 

So now I'm fearful of discovering what's the damage (asking price) going to be for this. Mostly because I'll probably pony up for one regardless, and hate myself for having done so. But oh well.


----------



## ufospls2

llamaluv said:


> Agreed that it looks like a marked improvement.
> 
> So now I'm fearful of discovering what's the damage (asking price) going to be for this. Mostly because I'll probably pony up for one regardless, and hate myself for having done so. But oh well.



$200USD.


----------



## koven

https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...s/products/replacement-headband-abyss-ab-1266

Looks like a preorder to ship 8/24


----------



## Randy Myers

I am really enjoying my Abyss since joining the Abyss family.  I would love a pair of the TC, but I also have a need for portable use... so I got the Diana Phi.  I could not be happier!  By far the best headphones I have ever heard and very comfortable!


----------



## yagislav

Abyss Headphones said:


> That’s pretty much the look of the new headbands. The final version will be slightly wider and will have ABYSS embossed on the leather, will begin shipping with new headphones next week. These headbands are hand-made in small batches on this side of the planet, going to be a month or so before we have any to sell separately. They are available to order. And yes they allow for easy replacement of the stretch rings, and are more comfortable.



@Abyss Headphones With a purchase of the new headbands, would you guys be including a extra sets of o-rings on the side just incase we need to replace the o-rings?


----------



## ahossam

I can't wait to get the new headband! 

How much long until we can order it?


----------



## ahossam

ahossam said:


> I can't wait to get the new headband!
> 
> How much long until we can order it?




Oh I missed this post, thanks for the heads-up


koven said:


> https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...s/products/replacement-headband-abyss-ab-1266
> 
> Looks like a preorder to ship 8/24


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ahossam said:


> Oh I missed this post, thanks for the heads-up



Funnily enough, just with this headband arriving, my o-rings are wearing out. Could you guys share your favorite improvisations. My best guess at this moment would be a cable binder.


----------



## ken6217

Well, my headband and O-rings are fine, but I ordered the new headband for it  being wider. I’m curious how it feels.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ken6217 said:


> Well, my headband and O-rings are fine, but I ordered the new headband for it  being wider. I’m curious how it feels.



Great to hear your o-rings are doing fine. Mine ... not so much, so any shared  improvisations would be great


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Haha, may be there will be some old headbands on sale here soon. The new ones DO look nice.


----------



## Bonddam

my new pair came with the new headband its thicker with screws looks nice and i dont really need much more underneath.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Bonddam said:


> my new pair came with the new headband its thicker with screws looks nice and i dont really need much more underneath.



Ha, lucky you! The headband is quite a big leap forward in looks, in my opinion. Hello embossed logo, bye-bye 80s metal look.


----------



## Bonddam (Jul 28, 2020)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Ha, lucky you! The headband is quite a big leap forward in looks, in my opinion. Hello embossed logo, bye-bye 80s metal look.


So much better in looks and feel!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love FU money!


----------



## Randy Myers

Congratz on your new headphones... awesome for you .... Abyss are amazing headphones.


----------



## Bonddam

This is my 2nd set I thought I didn't like it boy was I wrong.


----------



## Randy Myers

Nice... two sets...    I am happy to have one set of Abyss.


----------



## Bonddam

Don't worry I only have one. LOL


----------



## tommir

Hi, I'm looking for some tube amp, just like the sound but wondering if they have enough power to drive 1266 OG. Currently I use Wells Audio Milo and sometimes have a feeliong it doesn't have enough power... But it should have about 10W at 46ohms...


----------



## jlbrach

the milo has plenty of power, more than the formula s which was designed for the 1266 and is wonderful with it...power itself can be misleading some amps do not work well with some HP's for whatever reason...I had the milo some time ago and found no problem driving the 1266 but didnt find it a good match


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Bonddam said:


> ...  I love FU money!



Meaning? Well, good on you!


----------



## Bonddam

The amp I use is Woo Audio WA33. It has amazing sound. I have a Feliks Euphoria(OTL) Anniversary Edition coming. Going by power I wouldn't go below 2 watts. The ZMF Pendant is an other option does 2-3 watts at 50 ohms if I remember.


----------



## adeadcrab

Bonddam said:


> The amp I use is Woo Audio WA33. It has amazing sound. I have a Feliks Euphoria(OTL) Anniversary Edition coming. Going by power I wouldn't go below 2 watts. The ZMF Pendant is an other option does 2-3 watts at 50 ohms if I remember.




2 watts total, or 2 wpc?


----------



## 340519

Mine just hit the border. I should have them next week. Must...have...patience...wince


----------



## Randy Myers

I know it is not in the league of the WA33, but I really like my Bryston BHA-1.  Tons of power especially if you use balanced cables.  Built like a tank.  20 year, yes, Twenty Year warranty!  Very tube-ish sound... highly recommended!


----------



## paradoxper

Pretty, Pretty, Pretty Good.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Pretty, Pretty, Pretty Good.



Larry David?


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Larry David?


Who else!


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Who else!



They renewed for the 11th season. He's the man!


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> They renewed for the 11th season. He's the man!


Still ahead of its time!


----------



## Bonddam

adeadcrab said:


> 2 watts total, or 2 wpc?


2 watts per channel. The more headroom you add better detail in bass notes as low frequencies are harder on a amp. Also scales better all around. With my amp I can listen at low volume and the bass is wonderful at high volume it kick ASS.


----------



## tommir

jlbrach said:


> the milo has plenty of power, more than the formula s which was designed for the 1266 and is wonderful with it...power itself can be misleading some amps do not work well with some HP's for whatever reason...I had the milo some time ago and found no problem driving the 1266 but didnt find it a good match





Bonddam said:


> The amp I use is Woo Audio WA33. It has amazing sound. I have a Feliks Euphoria(OTL) Anniversary Edition coming. Going by power I wouldn't go below 2 watts. The ZMF Pendant is an other option does 2-3 watts at 50 ohms if I remember.


Thanks guys, these are the answers I was waiting for. It looks like the power isn't the only factor here...


----------



## 340519

Randy Myers said:


> I know it is not in the league of the WA33, but I really like my Bryston BHA-1.  Tons of power especially if you use balanced cables.  Built like a tank.  20 year, yes, Twenty Year warranty!  Very tube-ish sound... highly recommended!


Hey you're preaching to the converted. Bryston is my favorite audio company and my second bha1 is showing up today after a 5 week wait for the build.


----------



## ken6217

tommir said:


> Thanks guys, these are the answers I was waiting for. It looks like the power isn't the only factor here...



That’s for sure.


----------



## drc73rp

Had some good news today from Joe and THX Stereo that my 1266 TCs with the upgraded awesome headband had just been shipped to me. Just as well, got this speaker amp cable adapter project started with my trusted local DIY'er. Fun times ahead despite everything going on.


----------



## 340519

AnaKinDV8 said:


> Had some good news today from Joe and THX Stereo that my 1266 TCs with the upgraded awesome headband had just been shipped to me. Just as well, got this speaker amp cable adapter project started with my trusted local DIY'er. Fun times ahead despite everything going on.


Yes mine should have the new headband as well since they were finished last week. Stoked.


----------



## ken6217

AnaKinDV8 said:


> Had some good news today from Joe and THX Stereo that my 1266 TCs with the upgraded awesome headband had just been shipped to me. Just as well, got this speaker amp cable adapter project started with my trusted local DIY'er. Fun times ahead despite everything going on.



Nice. What speaker amp are you going to be using?


----------



## MatW

Got my TCs a month or so too early... That new headband looks nice!  
On the other hand, I got these years too late!


----------



## llamaluv

AnaKinDV8 said:


> Just as well, got this speaker amp cable adapter project started with my trusted local DIY'er. Fun times ahead despite everything going on.



14 gauge! D-a-a-amn...


----------



## lambdastorm

I much prefer the old logo, still gonna order the new headband though. Can't beat that convenience.


----------



## drc73rp

ken6217 said:


> Nice. What speaker amp are you going to be using?



Will try out the Pass pre-power in my stereo setup. Hopefully it's not immensely better than the Conductor C3R in my desktop so it stays as a weekend rig only for some real serious listening. Otherwise I'd hate to be lusting after an Int-25!


----------



## ken6217

AnaKinDV8 said:


> Will try out the Pass pre-power in my stereo setup. Hopefully it's not immensely better than the Conductor C3R in my desktop so it stays as a weekend rig only for some real serious listening. Otherwise I'd hate to be lusting after an Int-25!



I’m sure it will sound nice. I haven’t heard the Int, but I owned the XA 30.8 and that sounded excellent.


----------



## paradoxper

Are most of you still at around 1-2 o'clock for pad placement? It's entirely remarkable just how much these shift in sound.


----------



## MatW

I'm at three o clock, but I have a modification with a pilot pad, and that's the only position that works with this setup. It's quite comfortable like this, but I'll probably get either the new headband or the new copilot pad to see if it can be improved further.


----------



## allenwong

Is this necessary for get both sue and 1266?


----------



## tholt

paradoxper said:


> Are most of you still at around 1-2 o'clock for pad placement? It's entirely remarkable just how much these shift in sound.


I'm at 3 and 9 oclock.


----------



## llamaluv

allenwong said:


> Is this necessary for get both sue and 1266?



Is it necessary to spend upwards of $7,000-9,000 USD to own the two most expensive non-electrostatic headphones available today?

It all depends on one's definition of the word "necessary" (and also of the word "sane"  ).


----------



## yagislav

paradoxper said:


> Are most of you still at around 1-2 o'clock for pad placement? It's entirely remarkable just how much these shift in sound.


I am currently at 1 and 11 o'clock. I find it best for comfort and fit. 3 and 9 give the most bass but it isnt comfortable for me.


----------



## nrbatista

lambdastorm said:


> I much prefer the old logo, still gonna order the new headband though. Can't beat that convenience.



Is it possible to replace the “old” headband with the newest one? I mean without damaging the “old” headband or the straps.


----------



## nrbatista

paradoxper said:


> Are most of you still at around 1-2 o'clock for pad placement? It's entirely remarkable just how much these shift in sound.



Started with 1 and 11 o'clock. Now I'm at 2 and 10 o’clock, just comfort wise, didn’t notice much of sound difference between the two to be honest.


----------



## Bonddam

I changed to 3 and 9 see how long I keep it. Find it comfortable.


----------



## Bonddam

nrbatista said:


> Is it possible to replace the “old” headband with the newest one? I mean without damaging the “old” headband or the straps.


yes you can and easy to do.


----------



## nrbatista

Bonddam said:


> yes you can and easy to do.



Okay, got it, I can then imagine the newest replacement headband, even with screws, continues to come with the straps as well.


----------



## Bonddam

It's worth the $200 because you get thicker headband as far as o rings go I'm curious with they will be selling replacements on their website.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Bonddam said:


> It's worth the $200 because you get thicker headband as far as o rings go I'm curious with they will be selling replacements on their website.




You can pick them up in any dive shop


----------



## Abyss Headphones

nrbatista said:


> Is it possible to replace the “old” headband with the newest one? I mean without damaging the “old” headband or the straps.


----------



## Bonddam

Hoegaardener70 said:


> You can pick them up in any dive shop


You mean a store for divers? If so don't know of any in my area.


----------



## tholt

Bonddam said:


> It's worth the $200 because you get thicker headband as far as o rings go I'm curious with they will be selling replacements on their website.



O rings? They sell them at any hardware store. Or Amazon


----------



## nrbatista

nrbatista said:


> Started with 1 and 11 o'clock. Now I'm at 2 and 10 o’clock, just comfort wise, didn’t notice much of sound difference between the two to be honest.



Changed today to 3 and 9 o’clock to see how it goes. A bit more bass apparently, yet controlled. Comfort also good.


----------



## 340519

The tcs ship from the store they were sent to Tuesday so I should have them before next weekend. Then I'll do some unboxing porn for you gentlemen.


----------



## 340519

Does the tc use the same mini xlrs as the empys and lcd 4s? If so, I can use my new audio sensibility silver statement cable with them.


----------



## Roasty

dmdm said:


> Does the tc use the same mini xlrs as the empys and lcd 4s? If so, I can use my new audio sensibility silver statement cable with them.



Nope. Abyss uses 3 pin mini xlr. Audeze/Empy uses 4 pin mini xlr. Just get an ultra-short adaptor from Sean at AffinityCables and you're good to go.


----------



## 340519 (Aug 1, 2020)

Roasty said:


> Nope. Abyss uses 3 pin mini xlr. Audeze/Empy uses 4 pin mini xlr. Just get an ultra-short adaptor from Sean at AffinityCables and you're good to go.


Gret thanks for the info. I'll check out his site.
Edit: a site is not coming up. Ebay suggestions though. Do you have a link?


----------



## attmci (Aug 1, 2020)

dmdm said:


> Gret thanks for the info. I'll check out his site.
> Edit: a site is not coming up. Ebay suggestions though. Do you have a link?


That's an ebay store. https://www.ebay.com/str/affinitycables

Sean is in the same city as Roasty. He had been in this business for many years.

But, why do you want to use an alternative cable?? 

You knew this:

https://www.heraldextra.com/press-r...cle_bf8520c8-ae3a-11e2-aa4a-10604b9f0f42.html


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Aug 1, 2020)

attmci said:


> That's an ebay store. https://www.ebay.com/str/affinitycables
> 
> Sean is in the same city as Roasty. He had been in this business for many years.
> 
> ...




Affinitycables is great. Sean made a special high-end material ultra-short adapters from abyss 3pin mini XLR to Lemo / Focal Utopa. Here they are:


----------



## Focux

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Affinitycables is great. Sean made a special high-end material ultra-short adapters from abyss 3pin mini XLR to Lemo / Focal Utopa. Here they are:



sweet looking cable that..


----------



## attmci

yagislav said:


> I am currently at 1 and 11 o'clock. I find it best for comfort and fit. 3 and 9 give the most bass but it isnt comfortable for me.


The O-ring issue had been fixed. 

Now this is the concern:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-728#post-15635570


----------



## Litlgi74

His emotions take shape on the TCs... Wow.

https://tidal.com/track/118133836


----------



## nrbatista

nrbatista said:


> Changed today to 3 and 9 o’clock to see how it goes. A bit more bass apparently, yet controlled. Comfort also good.



Went back to 2 and 10 o’clock. More balanced sound for my liking.


----------



## nrbatista

simorag said:


> For those interested to check how clean and deep is the sub bass of their Abyss (or any other hp for that matter) Why So Serious? by Hans Zimmer is a great track.
> 
> Played loud it will also assess the control your amplifier has over the AB 1266 drivers (wait until about 3:25)



WOW, just found out this! Amazing track to listen with the TC’s. Thanks for sharing!

https://tidal.com/track/1855831


----------



## makan

nrbatista said:


> WOW, just found out this! Amazing track to listen with the TC’s. Thanks for sharing!
> 
> https://tidal.com/track/1855831


Agreed. Coincidence...was listening to it today...day 2 with the TC.


----------



## paradoxper

makan said:


> Agreed. Coincidence...was listening to it today...day 2 with the TC.


You mean 2 days straight. No food, no drink, no sleep, no potty. However, spirits allowed.


----------



## makan

paradoxper said:


> You mean 2 days straight. No food, no drink, no sleep, no potty. However, spirits allowed.


With 2 kids...I am getting 10mins here and there, whenever I can sneak it in. 2 days straight would be a dream!


----------



## paradoxper

makan said:


> With 2 kids...I am getting 10mins here and there, whenever I can sneak it in. 2 days straight would be a dream!


Those 10 abyssmal minutes are so magical, they feel like days!


----------



## Litlgi74

nrbatista said:


> WOW, just found out this! Amazing track to listen with the TC’s. Thanks for sharing!
> 
> https://tidal.com/track/1855831


My amp passes the test!


----------



## MatW

nrbatista said:


> WOW, just found out this! Amazing track to listen with the TC’s. Thanks for sharing!
> 
> https://tidal.com/track/1855831


Also a good track to test for any hairs stuck underneath the pads ...   At first I thought one of the drivers was off... I heard a weird noise on the right side when playing this song, from 3:25 onwards. I had not noticed anything 'wrong' with any other track. The extreme forces unleashed by this song revealed it. Taking the pad off and putting it back on took care of the 'problem'.. Fortunately.


----------



## yagislav (Aug 3, 2020)

edit


----------



## Bonddam

Back to pad rotation my pads are set differently because bass becomes uneven so I have the left side at 4 and right side at 9. I don't know what causes the bass to be more in one ear cup when equal.


----------



## vonBaron

I borowed Abyss 1266 (1st rev) from friend and they are very good headphones, i listen with both pads at 9 o'clock and max stretch out cups.
They are top tier SQ headphones but i still like my Final D8000 and Rosson RAD-0 more becuse i just put them on my head and play music, i spend 2h with Abyss just to find right position for myself...


----------



## tholt

vonBaron said:


> They are top tier SQ headphones but i still like my Final D8000 and Rosson RAD-0 more becuse i just put them on my head and play music, i spend 2h with Abyss just to find right position for myself...


----------



## jlbrach

vonBaron said:


> I borowed Abyss 1266 (1st rev) from friend and they are very good headphones, i listen with both pads at 9 o'clock and max stretch out cups.
> They are top tier SQ headphones but i still like my Final D8000 and Rosson RAD-0 more becuse i just put them on my head and play music, i spend 2h with Abyss just to find right position for myself...


the first edition of the 1266 is like 6 yrs old now....the TC is night and day better so not sure what the point of the comparison was other than fit...


----------



## tholt

jlbrach said:


> not sure what the point of the comparison was other than fit...


I think that was his point. I found it funny because we've all been there...


----------



## vonBaron

jlbrach said:


> the first edition of the 1266 is like 6 yrs old now....the TC is night and day better so not sure what the point of the comparison was other than fit...


I still happy that i can listen 1st version, in my country they are extremally rare.
Any comparsion betwen 1st ediition and new one?


----------



## vonBaron

This very clean, sharp sound is stunning!


----------



## TheMiddleSky

jlbrach said:


> the first edition of the 1266 is like 6 yrs old now....the TC is night and day better so not sure what the point of the comparison was other than fit...



Agree, the CC and TC are so much improve compare the OG in term of producing accuracy of timbre. Not to mention a lot smoother through  all spectrum as well.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Anyway, throwing a picture:


----------



## vonBaron (Aug 4, 2020)

Maybe someday i will hear CC or TC version 
Im shock how big and powerful this sound is from one sided magnet.


----------



## vonBaron

They are very good with poor recordings, first time i think this can be my only headphones.


----------



## mat.1

TheMiddleSky said:


> Anyway, throwing a picture:


How is the sound with Violetric ?


----------



## nrbatista

mat.1 said:


> How is the sound with Violetric ?



I’m using a Violectric v280 and I find it a good pairing for the TC’s, but I haven’t had the chance to compare with any other amp.
With the Violectric the sound is non fatiguing, very clean, dark background with zero hiss. To my ears, it’s fairly neutral, not emphasizing any frequency range.
In any case it’s not the most powerful amp to drive the TC’s so I’m sure there’s room for improvement.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

mat.1 said:


> How is the sound with Violetric ?



My impression would be mirror nrbatista opinion. No fatigue to speak about, love the vocality here especially for jazz and country songs. Natural feel comes to my mind easily.

Actually I think V281 is more than powerful to drive TC, at the moment I only use 0 dB gain. Usually move the dial around 10 - 2 o'clock (mostly below 12 o'clock), really depend on the mood and recording loudness.


----------



## ken6217

TheMiddleSky said:


> My impression would be mirror nrbatista opinion. No fatigue to speak about, love the vocality here especially for jazz and country songs. Natural feel comes to my mind easily.
> 
> Actually I think V281 is more than powerful to drive TC, at the moment I only use 0 dB gain. Usually move the dial around 10 - 2 o'clock (mostly below 12 o'clock), really depend on the mood and recording loudness.



I have had the V281 amp for about 3 years. This has always been my favorite headphone amp. It does have enough power for the TC. I believe 4 or 5 watts into 50 ohms.

However with that, it is totally outclassed by a speaker amore, I suspect this may be the case for any headphone amp versus a very good speaker amp.

I have had a Simaudio 600i V2, Pass Labs  XA30.8, and my current, Audio Research REF 75SE, albeit these are all quite a bit more expensive than the V281.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

ken6217 said:


> I have had the V281 amp for about 3 years. This has always been my favorite headphone amp. It does have enough power for the TC. I believe 4 or 5 watts into 50 ohms.
> 
> However with that, it is totally outclassed by a speaker amore, I suspect this may be the case for any headphone amp versus a very good speaker amp.
> 
> I have had a Simaudio 600i V2, Pass Labs  XA30.8, and my current, Audio Research REF 75SE, albeit these are all quite a bit more expensive than the V281.



Indeed, I never heard any amps you mentioned here, but I tried with speaker amp from Bakoon, and that really open up my mind about "breaking the limit" of what headphone can do nowadays


----------



## nrbatista

TheMiddleSky said:


> Actually I think V281 is more than powerful to drive TC, at the moment I only use 0 dB gain. Usually move the dial around 10 - 2 o'clock (mostly below 12 o'clock), really depend on the mood and recording loudness.



Interesting, I’m using +12 dB pre gain with my V280 and then move the dial around 2 o’clock most of the times. I’ve checked the user manual, it says 3100mW into 50 Ohm. 

Maybe the v281 is powerful than the v280, I’m becoming deaf, or both


----------



## ken6217

nrbatista said:


> Interesting, I’m using +12 dB pre gain with my V280 and then move the dial around 2 o’clock most of the times. I’ve checked the user manual, it says 3100mW into 50 Ohm.
> 
> Maybe the v281 is powerful than the v280, I’m becoming deaf, or both



Power isn’t the only aspect that makes an amp sound great.


----------



## vonBaron

Im still amazed how they play with Pro ICan!
Tommorow i will plug them into my GS-X mini.


----------



## makan

vonBaron said:


> Im still amazed how they play with Pro ICan!
> Tommorow i will plug them into my GS-X mini.


Agreed.  It plays real nice with pro ican


----------



## Slim1970

Got mine today with the new headband. Simply an amazing listen......


----------



## Bonddam

Very surprised that the Felixs Euphoria is powerful enough to make the 1266 TC sing volume at 11.


----------



## tholt

Bonddam said:


> Very surprised that the Felixs Euphoria is powerful enough to make the 1266 TC sing volume at 11.


Really?? That's impressive. Always was interested in that amp but dismissed it due to specs thinking it could never power Abyss. Care to share some impressions?


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Aug 5, 2020)

nrbatista said:


> Interesting, I’m using +12 dB pre gain with my V280 and then move the dial around 2 o’clock most of the times. I’ve checked the user manual, it says 3100mW into 50 Ohm.
> 
> Maybe the v281 is powerful than the v280, I’m becoming deaf, or both



Actually we need measure the output stage of DAC into consideration.

At that time I was using AK SP2000 as transport, and CMA600i as DAC. If I use SP2000 directly I think would be more comfortable with volume dial at +6 dB setting.

Then again, I think I listen to music a bit lower in volume than most people I know too.


----------



## Bonddam (Aug 5, 2020)

tholt said:


> Really?? That's impressive. Always was interested in that amp but dismissed it due to specs thinking it could never power Abyss. Care to share some impressions?



To start off the 250mw is what is head room nothing with what it really puts out. When you look at the amp you look at the voltage ouput on an OTL. This is what I gathered after talking to someone. Not ready to give details yet. I need to test the bass on edm see if it distorts.


----------



## tholt

Bonddam said:


> To start off the 250mw is what is head room nothing with what it really puts out. When you look at the amp you look at the voltage ouput on an OTL. This is what I gathered after talking to someone. Not ready to give details yet. I need to test the bass on edm see if it distorts.



Understood. Do share when you can or feel free to DM me.


----------



## 340519

Slim1970 said:


> Got mine today with the new headband. Simply an amazing listen......


Congrats! I should have mine tomorrow.  Man, they sure are ugly.


----------



## Slim1970

dmdm said:


> Congrats! I should have mine tomorrow.  Man, they sure are ugly.


Lol, but there is no denying the sound qualities they have. Once you get them on your head, you're greeted with a sound that no other headphone can match.


----------



## Bonddam

Any issues with bass being more on one side. I’m trying to get the bass equal on both sides. They fit pretty loose and when sealing one side I get bass on the other side vise versa.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Trying to ascertain an excellent Headphone Amp for the Abyss 1266 TC's against using Speaker Amps !  
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. 

Chord TT2 of particular interest as it also has the built in DAC and I am a big Chord Electronics fan.  
Otherwise I would use my Chord Hugo 2 connected to a Headphone Amp for now until budget allows for a DAC upgrade.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Trying to ascertain an excellent Headphone Amp for the Abyss 1266 TC's against using Speaker Amps !
> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Chord TT2 of particular interest as it also has the built in DAC and I am a big Chord Electronics fan.
> Otherwise I would use my Chord Hugo 2 connected to a Headphone Amp for now until budget allows for a DAC upgrade.



The TT2 does power the TC to a good level of enjoyment imo. The Formula S improved the sound over the amp in the TT2 it is not all down to the wattage that the amp pushes but also current and the Formula S delivers in that area. It is also class A and was designed with the Abyss in mind.


----------



## CreditingKarma

TheMiddleSky said:


> Actually we need measure the output stage of DAC into consideration.
> 
> At that time I was using AK SP2000 as transport, and CMA600i as DAC. If I use SP2000 directly I think would be more comfortable with volume dial at +6 dB setting.
> 
> Then again, I think I listen to music a bit lower in volume than most people I know too.




Why use the dac in the cma600i. The dac in the sp2000 is far superior imo? My sp1000 has a better dac chip and implementation than the cma600i.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

CreditingKarma said:


> Why use the dac in the cma600i. The dac in the sp2000 is far superior imo? My sp1000 has a better dac chip and implementation than the cma600i.



It's called experiment   

I always believe in synergy, and that thing has no relation with the price.

Anyway, I and the owner of SP2000, actually agree that SP2000 produce better detail, cleaner and so on, but in a way, we prefer the CMA600i as the main dac. Our theory the timbre is a bit off with SP2000 as dac because of the impedance mismatch.

Being a DAP, while they "digitally" create line out output, but still, it is not the real line out. The impedance output still near zero ohm, as it's more useful to drive multiple IEM out there. Typical "real" line out generally supposed to be have 75 - 600 ohm impedance output. Please CMIIW of course, whether this could bring the effect of difference between real line out or not


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

CreditingKarma said:


> The TT2 does power the TC to a good level of enjoyment imo. The Formula S improved the sound over the amp in the TT2 it is not all down to the wattage that the amp pushes but also current and the Formula S delivers in that area. It is also class A and was designed with the Abyss in mind.


Thank you CreditingKarma for your reply.   Much appreciated.


----------



## 340519

Finally!


----------



## 340519




----------



## 340519




----------



## 340519




----------



## 340519




----------



## Focux

vonBaron said:


> Im still amazed how they play with Pro ICan!
> Tommorow i will plug them into my GS-X mini.



believe @Hoegaardener70 is running this setup!


----------



## CreditingKarma

TheMiddleSky said:


> It's called experiment
> 
> I always believe in synergy, and that thing has no relation with the price.
> 
> ...




If you are using the digital output of the SP2000 the output impedance should not make a difference. How did you connect to the CMA600i? The usb and optical out are pure digital and would just be using the SP2000 as a source. The difference in sound would most likely be down to the amplifier stage.


----------



## 340519

Got the hooks like a poster suggested.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

CreditingKarma said:


> If you are using the digital output of the SP2000 the output impedance should not make a difference. How did you connect to the CMA600i? The usb and optical out are pure digital and would just be using the SP2000 as a source. The difference in sound would most likely be down to the amplifier stage.



The comparison was:
1. SP2000 - Mini2RCA - Vio V281
2. SP2000 - USB Cable - CMA600i - Rca to Rca - Vio V281

In this case the output impedance should be take into consideration.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

dmdm said:


> Got the hooks like a poster suggested.



Oh boy, finally!

of course all of us can't wait to hear first impression from you


----------



## 340519

TheMiddleSky said:


> Oh boy, finally!
> 
> of course all of us can't wait to hear first impression from you


Lol I like the z1r the best still at this point, but it's early.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Focux said:


> believe @Hoegaardener70 is running this setup!



Hi, yes using the iCan pro and am very happy with it. Did i miss something in earlier posts on input? I used the Hugo2 for a long time and am now using the ifi idsd as input to the iCan pro.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

dmdm said:


> Lol I like the z1r the best still at this point, but it's early.



i really wanted to like the z1r but they are impossibly off in the mids.


----------



## vonBaron

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Hi, yes using the iCan pro and am very happy with it. Did i miss something in earlier posts on input? I used the Hugo2 for a long time and am now using the ifi idsd as input to the iCan pro.


You listen in SS mode or Tube?


----------



## 340519

Okay, Roy Rosenfeld sounds very good through these things. The bass is sublime.


----------



## 340519

Running them through my favorite artists depeche mode of course, nin, how to destroy angels, alice in chains, enigma, etc. The bryston is killing it with the tcs.


----------



## 340519

My Chemical Romance Black Parade is a torture test and the tcs are keeping everything clean in the chaos. Bravo.


----------



## vonBaron

You know you are spamming thread?


----------



## 340519

vonBaron said:


> You know you are spamming thread?


Sorry, I was just excited.


----------



## Focux

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Hi, yes using the iCan pro and am very happy with it. Did i miss something in earlier posts on input? *I used the Hugo2 for a long time* and am now using the ifi idsd as input to the iCan pro.



Hugo2 to iCan Pro is something on my radar for sure


----------



## tholt

vonBaron said:


> You know you are spamming thread?



How is it spamming? I don't see anything wrong with posting first impressions, or any impressions. Perfectly relevant IMO if you're talking about the 1266


----------



## EndGameSearch (Aug 6, 2020)

CreditingKarma said:


> The TT2 does power the TC to a good level of enjoyment imo. The Formula S improved the sound over the amp in the TT2 it is not all down to the wattage that the amp pushes but also current and the Formula S delivers in that area. It is also class A and was designed with the Abyss in mind.


I agree with your point regarding current, and the forumla S is a great match, but as a (former) formula s/powerman, TT2 and Dave owner, I feel the TT2 is not seen as favorably simply due to tonal characteristics, not to a lack of power or voltage .  It's very clean and close to being a "gain on wire" approach which does not always drive the best synergy if your driving a HP that does well with a touch of warmth. 

The formula S is superb.  It adds a tiny bit of warmth and weight so the synergy w/ TC is top notch, but I find you can easily get there using TT2 along with a touch of digital eq.  TT2 has more than enough power to drive TC to exceptional levels of satisfaction.

As a counterpoint, I generally listen to TC direct from Dave.  It's as clean and transparent as you can get, and for my taste in music it's a perfect fit, but TC clearly opens up to a grander scale with more power than Dave can provide.  That grander scale is tied to power/voltage etc.  So whereas the TT2 may not give you the tonal signature you prefer, it has plenty of power to effectively drive TC.  I use my TC to drive B&W 805 d3's off TT2's single ended RCA out in a near field configuration.  It's an impressive piece of technology and the dac is wonderful. 

All that said, TC and Sus are unique in the fact that they really do seem to endlessly scale to a grander level with yet even more power, thus the push for a speaker amps.  It all comes down to finding the right compromise for your own taste and budget.   I just feel there are more cost effective ways to fine tune a signature other than looking for that "perfect" amp.....


----------



## 340519

tholt said:


> How is it spamming? I don't see anything wrong with posting first impressions, or any impressions. Perfectly relevant IMO if you're talking about the 1266


Thank you! I'm just really enjoying them!


----------



## Hoegaardener70

I just ordered the new headba


vonBaron said:


> You listen in SS mode or Tube?



Tube with the TC, SS mode for Utopia.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

EndGameSearch said:


> I agree with your point regarding current, and the forumla S is a great match, but as a (former) formula s/powerman, TT2 and Dave owner, I feel the TT2 is not seen as favorably simply due to tonal characteristics, not to a lack of power or voltage .  It's very clean and close to being a "gain on wire" approach which does not always drive the best synergy if your driving a HP that does well with a touch of warmth.
> 
> The formula S is superb.  It adds a tiny bit of warmth and weight so the synergy w/ TC is top notch, but I find you can easily get there using TT2 along with a touch of digital eq.  TT2 has more than enough power to drive TC to exceptional levels of satisfaction.
> 
> ...


Thank you EndGameSearch.   Great Info.  Very much appreciated.


----------



## makan

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I just ordered the new headba
> 
> 
> Tube with the TC, SS mode for Utopia.


Tube for the TC for me as well.


----------



## nrbatista

TheMiddleSky said:


> Actually we need measure the output stage of DAC into consideration.
> 
> At that time I was using AK SP2000 as transport, and CMA600i as DAC. If I use SP2000 directly I think would be more comfortable with volume dial at +6 dB setting.
> 
> Then again, I think I listen to music a bit lower in volume than most people I know too.



The output stage of my DAC is delivering 2.5 Vrms.


----------



## CreditingKarma

TheMiddleSky said:


> The comparison was:
> 1. SP2000 - Mini2RCA - Vio V281
> 2. SP2000 - USB Cable - CMA600i - Rca to Rca - Vio V281
> 
> In this case the output impedance should be take into consideration.




If the amplifier is of good quality and the ouput stage of the dac is as well. Then the sound difference due to output impedance should be minimal to negligible. It believe that the difference in the output voltage will make more of an impact as unless the two are volume matched a difference in volume can change the perceived sound qualities. 

The sp1000 and 2000 I believe output 2v at full lineout signal. I am not sure about the cma600i though. Also are toy using the cma as a preamp too or does line out bypass the volume control?


----------



## BrowChan

Slim1970 said:


> Got mine today with the new headband. Simply an amazing listen......


Not sure if it’s the angle, but the headband looks THICc and tempting to buy. Can anyone tell if the comfort is *greatly* improved with the cool new headband? Please keep in mind that I am already in debt.


----------



## tholt

Slim1970 said:


> Got mine today with the new headband. Simply an amazing listen......


A bit hard to tell from the picture, but the new headband looks like it has _a lot_ more padding than the older one. Anyone confirm?


----------



## 340519

tholt said:


> A bit hard to tell from the picture, but the new headband looks like it has _a lot_ more padding than the older one. Anyone confirm?


I can say that it is very well padded.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Well, I guess I’m buying the new headband now that it has more padding


----------



## Mh996

Can anyone who owns the original AB 1266 or Phi testify to their durability as a daily driver? Are driver failures common on 3-4 year old models?


----------



## elquixote

Mh996 said:


> Can anyone who owns the original AB 1266 or Phi testify to their durability as a daily driver? Are driver failures common on 3-4 year old models?



I have the same question.


----------



## 340519

So I've run into an anomaly I haven't experienced with other cans.  My second listen this morning since I got them I found them sibilant and the sss would break center imaging and move out to the left and right channel. I thought this very disappointing and then went out for groceries. When I got home I decided to try again with adjusting them more. So it seems when they sit high on my ears this phenomenon takes place, but as I pulled them down (I didnt want to stress the O rings after seeing the broken photos) the image stabilized and the sss was no longer sibilant.  I'm sure someone in the history of this thread has experienced this? I just can't bring myself to read all the pages. Are the tcs super dependent on pad/driver positioning?
Thanks.


----------



## vonBaron

Try different pad position.


----------



## makan

dmdm said:


> So I've run into an anomaly I haven't experienced with other cans.  My second listen this morning since I got them I found them sibilant and the sss would break center imaging and move out to the left and right channel. I thought this very disappointing and then went out for groceries. When I got home I decided to try again with adjusting them more. So it seems when they sit high on my ears this phenomenon takes place, but as I pulled them down (I didnt want to stress the O rings after seeing the broken photos) the image stabilized and the sss was no longer sibilant.  I'm sure someone in the history of this thread has experienced this? I just can't bring myself to read all the pages. Are the tcs super dependent on pad/driver positioning?
> Thanks.


Have a look at  this video from Abyss   ...it will help you out.  It takes a while to find the optimum position in terms of pad rotation, width of frame and angle of frame


----------



## makan

Once you are done with that video, have a look at this one


----------



## 340519

makan said:


> Have a look at  this video from Abyss   ...it will help you out.  It takes a while to find the optimum position in terms of pad rotation, width of frame and angle of frame



Ok great thanks. So I'm not crazy. The tcs are very finicky when it comes to positioning.


----------



## 340519

makan said:


> Once you are done with that video, have a look at this one



Awesome thanks.


----------



## 340519

vonBaron said:


> Try different pad position.


Thanks I appreciate it


----------



## Bonddam

From the video It looks like the pads make big contact to the head not really loose. Is having it too loose giving me unequal bass response. If I tighten it against my head it's good but I loose some power in the low end.


----------



## 340519

Bonddam said:


> From the video It looks like the pads make big contact to the head not really loose. Is having it too loose giving me unequal bass response. If I tighten it against my head it's good but I loose some power in the low end.


I'm going to have to mess around with them to find the proper imaging, high and low response.


----------



## Bonddam (Aug 7, 2020)

sometime I get really upset about bass currently I'm sitting differently and the bass is equal. I get upset that my all time favorite headphone can be so finicky. This headphone is more then the Susvara as it's really powerful in the low end where the Susvara is not yeah more detail on the Hifiman but the pure intensity of a 1266 is unmatched, closes I get to two channel setup and yes I owned the Susvara so I have good experince with them.


----------



## tholt

dmdm said:


> Are the tcs super dependent on pad/driver positioning?



In a word, yes. Because they more rest on your head than clamp to your ears and stay there, they can be a little finicky. The pad seam is typically in the 1 to 3 oclock position (only looking at the L pad, the R would obviously be the same). Also play with toeing in the frame around the center pin.



Bonddam said:


> If I tighten it against my head it's good but I loose some power in the low end.



Yes. The gap underneath between pad and ear acts as a port. Depending on pad rotation or how loose or tight it is against your head, this will affect bass response. The less port (and/or the tighter on your head) typically bass lessens to a degree. You'll just have to play around with fit. Took me a few months to find ideal, and even now I might tweak things depending on mood.


----------



## mogeq

I can't say that it is more powerful than other headphones, because the wrong pad position affects the voice reproduction.


----------



## 340519

tholt said:


> In a word, yes. Because they more rest on your head than clamp to your ears and stay there, they can be a little finicky. The pad seam is typically in the 1 to 3 oclock position (only looking at the L pad, the R would obviously be the same). Also play with toeing in the frame around the center pin.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. The gap underneath between pad and ear acts as a port. Depending on pad rotation or how loose or tight it is against your head, this will affect bass response. The less port (and/or the tighter on your head) typically bass lessens to a degree. You'll just have to play around with fit. Took me a few months to find ideal, and even now I might tweak things depending on mood.


Thanks. I've had them clamped with a tight seal so I will loosen them. The sss issue goes away with positioning as well, along with imaging issues, so I will have to play with them more.


----------



## vonBaron

1266 sound very good with GS-X mini too, i can't decide what amp sound better with them.


----------



## 340519

I also did not have the pads in the right position according to the video.


----------



## vonBaron

You don't have to! 
Mine is 9 o'clock, when i put them at 11 like on video they sound too bright for me.


----------



## elquixote (Aug 7, 2020)

Im currently demoing a 1266 phi with cc pads and the best fit for me seems to be at 8pm, creates a small opening between my jaw and my ear. Man what a difference rotating the pads makes, I tried something like 6 or 7pm and it gets crazy bloomy (pretty large opening under my ears). 9 or 10 o'clock create too much of a seal for me, drastically reducing the bass.


----------



## vonBaron

Yeah, same to me, on 6-8 is too bloomy, now i have smal gap in 4 o'clock.


----------



## vonBaron

Now testing your 8pm and maybe it's even better


----------



## JLoud

I have changed my preference several times. Currently going with just touching on ear pads. Almost no pressure and small gap between ear and jaw bone. Seems to be best compromise of detail and bass power. Of course preference might change next week.


----------



## JLoud

I have owned my TC’s for over a year. So the quest continues. Not really a problem, just shows how they can be tuned to suit one’s taste.


----------



## 340519

All I want is no sss sibilance and a dead centre voice. I'll adjust until that happens.


----------



## elquixote

yea I don't look at it as an issue, I like the tuneability with a few rotations. Its interesting because I listen to so many different genres, maybe I'll have an "time" setting for each genre lol


----------



## vonBaron

My pads are still squashed at 12 even with headband open all the way.


----------



## JLoud

You may need to bend the arms out a little. There is a YouTube video that shows how. I believe the Abyss website has a link for it.


----------



## paradoxper

It's about 2:15 or so.


----------



## jlbrach

dmdm said:


> All I want is no sss sibilance and a dead centre voice. I'll adjust until that happens.


I am in total agreement with you regarding sibilance which I become more sensitive to as I age...the position of the 1266 definitely affects it...the raal sr1a is even more pronounced in terms of position....depending on how it sits on your head it can either be incredibly sibilant or much less so... some recordings are so poorly mastered and harsh and can almost be painful to listen to...


----------



## Bonddam (Aug 7, 2020)

You can even switch the pads around as this will put the pad upside down. I just see the pads are not completely symmetrical. A lot of uneven surface.


----------



## 340519

jlbrach said:


> I am in total agreement with you regarding sibilance which I become more sensitive to as I age...the position of the 1266 definitely affects it...the raal sr1a is even more pronounced in terms of position....depending on how it sits on your head it can either be incredibly sibilant or much less so... some recordings are so poorly mastered and harsh and can almost be painful to listen to...


I agree and I had no idea the tcs are so sensitive when it comes to this.


----------



## elquixote

dmdm said:


> I agree and I had no idea the tcs are so sensitive when it comes to this.



 Crazy thing was even turning my head changed the sound lol, forget eating something while they're on your head haha


----------



## theBlackKey

I own Abyss diana phi and the v2. Recently I sold the abyss Diana phi and wanted to try Abyss 1266. I wondered if the Abyss 1266 Og can still hold up with the Abyss 1266 Phi and Diana Phi. I have listened yo the 1266 phi but never really had a chnce to listen to the 1266 og.


----------



## makan

Ok. I think after a week or so, I have my TC setup to my preferred settings.  Pads set at 2 (L) and 11 (R) o’clock with no toeing of the frame and smallest width with the geekria replacement pad for HD280 under the abyss pad. The pad may not work for everyone as it lifts the cups up, and for me, the pads now just barely fit under my ears in a comfortable position.  I do prefer the superconductor cables to the original and moon audio silver dragon cables, but they all sound nice, just a different sound. I don’t usually notice or pay attention to cables. Dac is rme adi-2 dac and amp is Ifi can pro in tube mode and highest gain. No more fiddling with the TC frame and pads....for now.


----------



## vonBaron

For anyone that are looking to buy GS-X mini to pair with 1266 its great deal, it's power enough to drive them very loud.


----------



## 340519

Thanks for the videos above as I've fixed all my issues.


----------



## elquixote

makan said:


> Ok. I think after a week or so, I have my TC setup to my preferred settings.  Pads set at 2 (L) and 11 (R) o’clock with no toeing of the frame and smallest width with the geekria replacement pad for HD280 under the abyss pad. The pad may not work for everyone as it lifts the cups up, and for me, the pads now just barely fit under my ears in a comfortable position.  I do prefer the superconductor cables to the original and moon audio silver dragon cables, but they all sound nice, just a different sound. I don’t usually notice or pay attention to cables. Dac is rme adi-2 dac and amp is Ifi can pro in tube mode and highest gain. No more fiddling with the TC frame and pads....for now.



I was demoing the 1266 phi with my RME Adi-2 and Phonitor X on high gain (both DIP switches on) and really liked that combo. On high gain I couldn't really get past 9 o'clock on the dial volume wise. I imagine throwing some tube flavor could be really fun as well!


----------



## TheMiddleSky

theBlackKey said:


> I own Abyss diana phi and the v2. Recently I sold the abyss Diana phi and wanted to try Abyss 1266. I wondered if the Abyss 1266 Og can still hold up with the Abyss 1266 Phi and Diana Phi. I have listened yo the 1266 phi but never really had a chnce to listen to the 1266 og.



Please give yourself a favor and go straight to 1266 TC if possible.

A week ago I had chance to re-listen 1266 OG and comparing it to Diana Phi and 1266 Phi TC. Dare I say, 1266 OG and TC may look similar in housing design, however they are different beast. The TC is much more smoother across all spectrum, with "sharper" imaging, better micro detail, and more control.


----------



## MacedonianHero

vonBaron said:


> For anyone that are looking to buy GS-X mini to pair with 1266 its great deal, it's power enough to drive them very loud.



QFT! Brilliant combination and plenty of power on hand!


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

vonBaron said:


> For anyone that are looking to buy GS-X mini to pair with 1266 its great deal, it's power enough to drive them very loud.


Anybody compared the GS-X mini with the original GS-X Mk2 using the 1266 TC's ?


----------



## paradoxper (Aug 11, 2020)

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Anybody compared the GS-X mini with the original GS-X Mk2 using the 1266 TC's ?


I might pick up a mini to fulfill requirements. My plan was to compare as much as I can get my hands on to my CFA3 and less consequently SuSy Dynahi. And potentially a custom ECP TC-driven amplifier as well.
And maybe an adapted uberamp from KG. And...

Well, it never ends.


----------



## vonBaron

Silver cables works good with 1266?


----------



## mat.1

vonBaron said:


> Silver cables works good with 1266?


For me , no silver cable for 1266.


----------



## vonBaron

So better stick with stock, now i see it cost 995$...


----------



## 340519 (Aug 11, 2020)

mat.1 said:


> For me , no silver cable for 1266.


I'm going to stick with the stock as well. I just bought an audio sensibility silver statement for my lcd 4 and empy though that I quite enjoy.


----------



## 340519

paradoxper said:


> I might pick up a mini to fulfill requirements. My plan was to compare as much as I can get my hands on to my CFA3 and less consequently SuSy Dynahi. And potentially a custom ECP TC-driven amplifier as well.
> And maybe an adapted uberamp from KG. And...
> 
> Well, it never ends.


Actually I'm done on the amp front. Now that I have two of my end game amps, the bryston bha1s, I'm set and very happy.


----------



## Slim1970

dmdm said:


> I'm going to stick with the stock as well. I just bought an audio sensibility silver statement for my lcd 4 and empy though that I quite enjoy.


Same, here. I’m going to stick with the stock cable for now. I have an audio sensibility cable as well and love it. I’m just not sure it would offer anything over the stock cable. I’m not sure any aftermarket cable would flat out best it. I’ll just a different tuning and maybe some improvements in certain frequencies. The stock cable is really, really good!


----------



## 340519

Slim1970 said:


> Same, here. I’m going to stick with the stock cable for now. I have an audio sensibility cable as well and love it. I’m just not sure it would offer anything over the stock cable. I’m not sure any aftermarket cable would flat out best it. I’ll just a different tuning and maybe some improvements in certain frequencies. The stock cable is really, really good!


Did you get the superconductors or the regular?


----------



## stemiki

I have been using for two days a cable made by a craftsman here in Italy with whom he replaced the stock cable. This cable, on his advice, since he too has owned Abyss, is made of Silver mono crystal 7n 8 core. 
I immediately found a clear improvement, greater detail and separation between the instruments, more extended high frequencies without any sibilant or cold sound. Low frequencies always full-bodied and defined, no decrease in harmonics. 
With the Benchmark amplifier I had an increase in listening volume of another 5 db without any distortion. I am almost at the end of the race.


----------



## paradoxper (Aug 11, 2020)

dmdm said:


> Actually I'm done on the amp front. Now that I have two of my end game amps, the bryston bha1s, I'm set and very happy.


Not uh. You are done for now. Wait for the BHA1t. Better yet, talk to Bryston about the BHATC.


----------



## 340519

paradoxper said:


> Not uh. You are done for now. Wait for the BHA1t. Better yet, talk to Bryston about the BHATC.


Oohhh insider info? No way.


----------



## Slim1970

dmdm said:


> Did you get the superconductors or the regular?


Just the regula, stock cable


----------



## Ciggavelli

Ordered the new headband. I’m not sure it looks better than the original, but it does look thicker and hopefully more comfortable. With the original, I get a hot spot during longer sessions.


----------



## Slim1970

Ciggavelli said:


> Ordered the new headband. I’m not sure it looks better than the original, but it does look thicker and hopefully more comfortable. With the original, I get a hot spot during longer sessions.


The the new headband is thicker and wider and feels great while on your head. I’m now sure if it’ll get rid of the hot after long listening sessions but in short term it feels great.


----------



## ken6217

Slim1970 said:


> The the new headband is thicker and wider and feels great while on your head. I’m now sure if it’ll get rid of the hot after long listening sessions but in short term it feels great.



I ordered the new headband as well. I’m wondering with the thicker padding if it’ll sit higher on your head and then need to readjust the positioning


----------



## Slim1970

ken6217 said:


> I ordered the new headband as well. I’m wondering with the thicker padding if it’ll sit higher on your head and then need to readjust the positioning


It’s very possible that the new headband might require some repositioning. Since my TC’s came with the new headband, I set mine up with it. I can say that the tension is very strong. I may have to flex my TC’s a bit to loosen up its grip.


----------



## mat.1

This the new headband, its a bit stiffer and the a bit thicker.
its look thicker when you install the headband , the tension make the headband looks more thicker.


----------



## 340519

Slim1970 said:


> It’s very possible that the new headband might require some repositioning. Since my TC’s came with the new headband, I set mine up with it. I can say that the tension is very strong. I may have to flex my TC’s a bit to loosen up its grip.


Same for me with the new headband.


----------



## nrbatista

vonBaron said:


> For anyone that are looking to buy GS-X mini to pair with 1266 its great deal, it's power enough to drive them very loud.



Any comparison with Violectric v280 using the TC? The price range is very similar at least.


----------



## Olumm

Hey All,

Long time lurker here, and previous owner of the 1266 OG. I am taking delivery of my new 1266 Phi TC tomorrow afternoon and wanted to ask this group about my current amp situation, as I have questions...

First... My current setup was for ZMF Verite which consists of the Mjonir 2 and Gumby combo, which I like very much with the Verite. I am wondering if it's rated 5w at 50ohm will be the right type of power for the TC. Schit doesn't list the voltage, but does list the gain difference between high and low (8 (18dB) or 1(0db), via front-panel switch). My question is if the MJ2 will do well, or should I transplant the Raggy/Yggy from the basement to my upstairs listening room? Has anyone tried an MJ2 on their TC? 

Previously, with the OG 1266, I was using an old speaker amp and an AudioGD R28... seemed OK, but nothing that ever made music sound.... special. 

I could potentially get in to a WA33, or a 430HA, but thought it best to ask if the MJ2/Raggy would provide good power for the TC. I have quite the selection of tubes for the MJ2 btw... probably why I am hoping it will work.


----------



## tholt

Olumm said:


> My question is if the MJ2 will do well, or should I transplant the Raggy/Yggy from the basement to my upstairs listening room? Has anyone tried an MJ2 on their TC?


I briefly had the Mjolnir 2, I was using it with the OG but I think my impressions would remain the same with Phi or TC. I thought it was horrible -- very thin and flat sounding, something was definitely off. Not sure if it lacks current since wattage theoretically should be enough, but something about the pairing clearly didn't work IMO.


----------



## Olumm

tholt said:


> I briefly had the Mjolnir 2, I was using it with the OG but I think my impressions would remain the same with Phi or TC. I thought it was horrible -- very thin and flat sounding, something was definitely off. Not sure if it lacks current since wattage theoretically should be enough, but something about the pairing clearly didn't work IMO.



Wow... that's concerning to hear, but I do appreciate your thoughts on the pairing!


----------



## tholt

Olumm said:


> Wow... that's concerning to hear, but I do appreciate your thoughts on the pairing!


YMMV, maybe it will be different for you. I hope so since you already have the amp, but yeah, for me it was not ideal.


----------



## Olumm

tholt said:


> YMMV, maybe it will be different for you. I hope so since you already have the amp, but yeah, for me it was not ideal.



I will update once I get them in tomorrow and give it a listen.


----------



## stemiki

Returning to the custom cables topic, after trying the Silver cable for a few days I returned to the stock cable without regret. Except the first day which seemed like an upgrade to me, from the second on it started to give me a more detailed but artificial sound sensation, it made the listening nervous rather than relaxing. 
I'll try to have it replaced with a copper cable. However, the stock has its own big why.


----------



## Olumm

I took delivery of my TC about a few hours ago.I have a lot more listening to complete, but so far the MJ2/Gumby stack is pushing the ever-loving hell out of these on low gain. The Amperex Bugle Boys are adding a little warmth to the sound vs. the Raggy/Yggy in the basement. I can certainly tell it's not as detailed as the pairing in the basement, but I am happy to trade a slight amount of that detail for some warmth. 

I will update with some impressions later this weekend between the two setups, but I am very pleased with what Abyss has done with the iteration of their 1266. I can certainly tell the difference between the TC and the OG 1266. Well done team Abyss.


----------



## InstantSilence

What is a cheaper amp strong enough for the TC, but cheap lol
To be paired with a chord dac?


----------



## Olumm

InstantSilence said:


> What is a cheaper amp strong enough for the TC, but cheap lol
> To be paired with a chord dac?



If you install the jumpers on the Emotiva A-100 it has more than enough power for the TC at $229.


----------



## Litlgi74

InstantSilence said:


> What is a cheaper amp strong enough for the TC, but cheap lol
> To be paired with a chord dac?


What DAC?


----------



## InstantSilence

Litlgi74 said:


> What DAC?


Sorry, quoted wrong thing gonna, maybe switch to a Hugo 2,so RCA out

Jeez, sorry for spamming posts. What case or carry case fits these big headphones for when traveling (not interested in portable use of course) but getting it from a to b as far as safe transport?


----------



## ra990 (Aug 16, 2020)

InstantSilence said:


> What is a cheaper amp strong enough for the TC, but cheap lol
> To be paired with a chord dac?


Ragnarok 2 has plenty of power for any headphone you'll ever have. Sounds great with speakers as well.

The Topping A90 is also a decent choice if price is the biggest factor. The Monoprice Liquid Platinum (on sale right now for $485) also paired well with the Abyss when I owned them.


----------



## tholt

InstantSilence said:


> What is a cheaper amp strong enough for the TC, but cheap lol


What is your budget? Do a little digging a few pages back. Someone was compiling a list of inexpensive amps. Under $1k I thought the Cayin iHA-6, Monoprice Liquid Platinum and Flux FA-10 sounded good, all more than competent.


----------



## InstantSilence

Any case that can hold the TC? From hotel to hotel type of thing? They are big... Know of any big cases? Hardshell preferred, but not required.
Cant buy the abyss one.


----------



## Olumm

InstantSilence said:


> Any case that can hold the TC? From hotel to hotel type of thing? They are big... Know of any big cases? Hardshell preferred, but not required.
> Cant buy the abyss one.



I believe that somewhere back through this volume of pages a member used a Seahorse 530 and cut the foam to fit his 1266 with great results.


----------



## InstantSilence

Olumm said:


> I believe that somewhere back through this volume of pages a member used a Seahorse 530 and cut the foam to fit his 1266 with great results.


I appreciate you, I can't find the posts, would love to contact him


----------



## paradoxper

InstantSilence said:


> I appreciate you, I can't find the posts, would love to contact him


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-15582408


----------



## jlbrach

the TC is REALLY not a traveling HP


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> the TC is REALLY not a traveling HP


Until it is.


----------



## Soundfalls (Aug 18, 2020)

HiFiGuy528 said:


> I’ve been enjoying my Diana Phi powered by Sony DMP-Z1 for several months and the issue I have now is nothing else in my collection of headphones sound good. I also love IEMs but they don’t come remotely close in performance to DP. If you get 1266 or Diana Phi, be prepared to be disappointed by the other headphones you used to enjoy. Now I am slowly listing all my headphones on eBay. ABYSS needs to make an IEM and I’ll be all set.


Pardon me for bringing an old post back but I am quite curious about the combination of Diana Phi and the DMP Z1 ( I have neither but interested in getting them) . I am very new to this hobby but I heard the Diana was reputedly difficult to drive/amp picky. Can the DMP Z1 with only 1500 mW on paper really bring out DP's full potential ? The online headphone power calculators seems to say okay but how does that translate to reality? I have a small study which I share with my family and the minimalism of the DMP Z1 quite appeals to me. Thanks in advance for you guys' input.


----------



## JLoud

I bought this case for my Abyss TC. Works great, plenty of room for cables and even a DAP or small all in one like a SCHIIT Jotenheim.
*Monoprice Weatherproof / Shockproof Hard Case - Black IP67 level dust and water protection up to 1 meter depth with Customizable Foam, 19" x 16" x 8"*
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JVA7ONQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Slim1970

JLoud said:


> I bought this case for my Abyss TC. Works great, plenty of room for cables and even a DAP or small all in one like a SCHIIT Jotenheim.
> *Monoprice Weatherproof / Shockproof Hard Case - Black IP67 level dust and water protection up to 1 meter depth with Customizable Foam, 19" x 16" x 8"*
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JVA7ONQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Could you share a pic of your case layout with the TC’s in it?


----------



## JLoud

I will take one and post it when I get home from work tonight. It will be late.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Hi folks, I  have an issue with my pads, the glue which puts the leather to frame is oozing out and makes my pads a sticky mess (right where one touches them and it stays on the fingers), plus they are also slowly getting detached. They are exactly one year old and where always nicely cared for (not wet or even sweaty). I actually think too much glue was applied when manufactured.

I do currently not have the funds to buy new pads ... so, any ideas what to do? May be take them off altogether, clean it all to get rid of the residue glue, and get a new layer on it?
Any ideas highly appreciated.


----------



## InstantSilence

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Hi folks, I  have an issue with my pads, the glue which puts the leather to frame is oozing out and makes my pads a sticky mess (right where one touches them and it stays on the fingers), plus they are also slowly getting detached. They are exactly one year old and where always nicely cared for (not wet or even sweaty). I actually think too much glue was applied when manufactured.
> 
> I do currently not have the funds to buy new pads ... so, any ideas what to do? May be take them off altogether, clean it all to get rid of the residue glue, and get a new layer on it?
> Any ideas highly appreciated.


I would say even safe, gel form school glue might be commitment enough. As it won't be runny, yet it's an *amateur * lvl of a glue... Yet sufficient for function? Why not?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

InstantSilence said:


> I would say even safe, gel form school glue might be commitment enough. As it won't be runny, yet it's an *amateur * lvl of a glue... Yet sufficient for function? Why not?





I am just hesitant taking the whole thing apart, and that the glue might not come off as expected. Anybody had similar issues and tried to fix it?


----------



## Olumm (Aug 18, 2020)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Hi folks, I  have an issue with my pads, the glue which puts the leather to frame is oozing out and makes my pads a sticky mess (right where one touches them and it stays on the fingers), plus they are also slowly getting detached. They are exactly one year old and where always nicely cared for (not wet or even sweaty). I actually think too much glue was applied when manufactured.
> 
> I do currently not have the funds to buy new pads ... so, any ideas what to do? May be take them off altogether, clean it all to get rid of the residue glue, and get a new layer on it?
> Any ideas highly appreciated.



I would reach out to Abyss customer service to get their input In a potential solution beyond just buying new pads. Hell, they may even cover it under warranty. You just never know...


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Olumm said:


> I have now put around 30 hours of total head time on the TC over the course of the last 4 days. I guess working from home has _some _hidden benefits. I will maintain that the combo of MJ2/Gumby is my personal preferred listening setup for the TC (of what I currently have available). The main area where the MJ2/Gumby excels is with female vocals. I will give you a bit of a comparison on some female vocal songs below between the MJ2/Gumby and the Raggy/Yggy.
> 
> *Rebecca Pidgeon - Spanish Harlem*
> 
> ...



I did reach out and was told that pads are considered wearables. The advice was to replace them.


----------



## typalder

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I did reach out and was told that pads are considered wearables. The advice was to replace them.


----------



## typalder

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Hi folks, I  have an issue with my pads, the glue which puts the leather to frame is oozing out and makes my pads a sticky mess (right where one touches them and it stays on the fingers), plus they are also slowly getting detached. They are exactly one year old and where always nicely cared for (not wet or even sweaty). I actually think too much glue was applied when manufactured.
> 
> I do currently not have the funds to buy new pads ... so, any ideas what to do? May be take them off altogether, clean it all to get rid of the residue glue, and get a new layer on it?
> Any ideas highly appreciated.


too much sun maybe???


----------



## tholt

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Anybody had similar issues and tried to fix it?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-15437536

I did. I tried to keep tucking the leather back in but they just got worse and worse. Had to buy a new pair. They did give me a bit of a break


----------



## tholt

Is it one pad or both?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

tholt said:


> Is it one pad or both?



It is only one pad.


----------



## Olumm

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I did reach out and was told that pads are considered wearables. The advice was to replace them.



Well, then it appears that your choice is a little more clear now.

I’d research glues that are ok to use with leather and plastic and also find a solvent that won’t destroy leather or plastic to remove what glue is currently on them.

Remove the current glue (be mindful of the placement of the pads relative to the plastic ring), clean them well with alcohol and reapply new glue and let dry.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

typalder said:


> too much sun maybe???



Haha, no I did not bring my amp and abyss out of a picknick. It is also only one pad.


----------



## tholt

Hoegaardener70 said:


> It is only one pad.


I have an extra pad. I'll DM you


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Olumm said:


> Well, then it appears that your choice is a little more clear now.
> 
> I’d research glues that are ok to use with leather and plastic and also find a solvent that won’t destroy leather or plastic to remove what glue is currently on them.
> 
> Remove the current glue (be mindful of the placement of the pads relative to the plastic ring), clean them well with alcohol and reapply new glue and let dry.





Yes, also if I look at tholt's picture ... one gets a bit scared. I really cannot dish out 400 for this. For the moment, I cut a microfiber cloth and very gently covered the sections where the glue is oozing. Looks like this:


----------



## Hoegaardener70

tholt said:


> I have an extra pad. I'll DM you



THANK YOU. Sometimes I love head-fi.


----------



## typalder

Hoegaardener70 said:


> THANK YOU. Sometimes I love head-fi.


YEAH!!!


----------



## Olumm

tholt said:


> I have an extra pad. I'll DM you



love this community


----------



## tholt

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Yes, also if I look at tholt's picture ... one gets a bit scared.


I would hope to think mine was a pretty extreme example and an outlier.


----------



## Litlgi74

I've been recently listening to some rock music of my youth... And came across this gem. It has a rich full sound especially for this type of genre... The crisp detail of hi-hat and drums is wonderful... I wish my favorite rock band, Rush were recorded more like this. Enjoy.



https://tidal.com/track/3116271


----------



## MachineGunz (Aug 18, 2020)

Edit:

Apparently the WA33 is needed haha.


----------



## vonBaron

TT2 is powerful enough to drive them? 

Maybe SE connection is problem?


----------



## JLoud

Make sure not to seal the pads to your head. I found a small gap under my ear, almost like a port, really improved bass response. Try watching video on Abyss website about fitting the headphones. Definitely took me a while to find the right fit for sound. Also I toed them in towards front of my head.


----------



## Slim1970

MachineGunz said:


> Hi,
> 
> I finally got a pair of the Phi TCs.
> 
> ...


I have the TT2 and the SE output can’t properly drive the TC’s. Sure the TT2 can play them but the sound quality is not good. Driving the TC’s out of the TT2’s xlr outputs yields much better results in amp mode.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Aug 18, 2020)

I first drove my TCs outta a TT2. I didn’t experience sibilant sounds. But, I did notice the bass wasn’t as good as everybody was saying. I even went as far as saying the Th900mk2s have better bass in quantity and quality.

Then, I got a Woo Audio WA33 headphone amp, which is more powerful than the TT2. Oh my, it made a big difference. The bass got bigger and better. It was a pretty substantial increase.

So, I no longer think a TT2 is capable of driving the TCs to their full potential.  I Replaced the TT2 with a DAVE as well, which is a much better dac too


----------



## MachineGunz

vonBaron said:


> TT2 is powerful enough to drive them?
> 
> Maybe SE connection is problem?



I tried using different equipment and the xlr cable but the result is still the same




JLoud said:


> Make sure not to seal the pads to your head. I found a small gap under my ear, almost like a port, really improved bass response. Try watching video on Abyss website about fitting the headphones. Definitely took me a while to find the right fit for sound. Also I toed them in towards front of my head.



I tried every pad position I can think of but I will keep trying.



Slim1970 said:


> I have the TT2 and the SE output can’t properly drive the TC’s. Sure the TT2 can play them but the sound quality is not good. Driving the TC’s out of the TT2’s xlr outputs yields much better results in amp mode.



*It's quite interesting - I connected them to the XLR outs and the bass frequencies between 10 - 45 didn't change, Everything above that became much more powerful, But it also made the soundstage smaller, So I actually prefer the SE connection, However I am using a cheap xlr adapter for the TT2 so it probably has an effect.*



Ciggavelli said:


> I first drove my TCs outta a TT2. I didn’t experience sibilant sounds. But, I did notice the bass wasn’t as good as everybody was saying. I even went as far as saying the Th900mk2s have better bass in quantity and quality.
> 
> Then, I got a Woo Audio WA33 headphone amp, which is more powerful than the TT2. Oh my, it made a big difference. The bass got bigger and better. It was a pretty substantial increase.
> 
> So, I no longer think a TT2 is capable of driving the TCs to their full potential.  Replaced the TT2 with a DAVE as well, which is a much better dac too



*Thanks again for the help, It will take me a while until I can even think of getting this. But maybe one day.


Do you think it's also a part of the burn-in process?

Because the bass of the Phi TCs is absolutely amazing. It's just the lower bass frequencies that bother me.*


----------



## Eduardo C (Aug 18, 2020)

Hi all. I want to ask about your impressions  using the Abyss phy tc while laying on bed. My LCD-4 are perfect for this since most of the weight is supported by the pillow. I understand the clamp force with the abyss is pretty week. Would that be a problem?
Thanks.


----------



## InstantSilence

Eduardo C said:


> Hi all. I want to ask about your impressions  using the Abyss phy tc while laying on bed. My LCD-4 are perfect for this since most of the weight is supported by the pillow. I understand the clamp force with the abyss is pretty week. Would that be a problem?
> Thanks.


I tried, the pillow makes it sound different... Because it's a *wall* to refract?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Eduardo C said:


> Hi all. I want to ask about your impressions  using the Abyss phy tc while laying on bed. My LCD-4 are perfect for this since most of the weight is supported by the pillow. I understand the clamp force with the abyss is pretty week. Would that be a problem?
> Thanks.



I used my TC in bed at the beginning before moving my amp. It works pretty well if you find a right position for your pillow, I ended up mine putting half upright against my back. But saying that, once again, no real issue there. The frame will rest nicely.


----------



## vonBaron

Can't wait for my 1266 PHI CC to arrive. 
OG quite easily beats my Rosson RAD-0.


----------



## JLoud

These are a couple pictures of the Monoprice case I bought for my Abyss. I made room for extra cables and a Dap. But you could easily fit an amp like a Schiit Jotenheim.


----------



## JLoud

The Audeze case is from my LCD-4. Just for reference as to size of the case.


----------



## Slim1970

JLoud said:


> The Audeze case is from my LCD-4. Just for reference as to size of the case.


The LCD-4 case is already huge. This case dwarfs it!


----------



## Ciggavelli

JLoud said:


> These are a couple pictures of the Monoprice case I bought for my Abyss. I made room for extra cables and a Dap. But you could easily fit an amp like a Schiit Jotenheim.


How did you cut the foam so well?  I can never get it that straight and precise


----------



## paradoxper

Ok. Deciding I'm in the mood to be fickle, I've been playing with the fit on the TC. I've decided 1 o'clock for ear pad position is my overall sound preference. I also prefer the headband toed-out as there are more distortion characteristics toed-in. Bass can get pretty visceral porting lower on the ear.

However, during this replacement, I found when trying to extend my headband out fully, if I slightly flex the cups outward the full-extension slips back-in.
Now, this is actually my preferred fit, but I am left wondering if this is normal operation or if my set-screw has become loose.

Anybody else clarify this behavior?


----------



## JLoud

Ciggavelli said:


> How did you cut the foam so well?  I can never get it that straight and precise


This had the pick n' pluck foam. Took some time but turned out well. It really isn't huge. 19"X16" so not small.


----------



## Ciggavelli

paradoxper said:


> Ok. Deciding I'm in the mood to be fickle, I've been playing with the fit on the TC. I've decided 1 o'clock for ear pad position is my overall sound preference. I also prefer the headband toed-out as there are more distortion characteristics toed-in. Bass can get pretty visceral porting lower on the ear.
> 
> However, during this replacement, I found when trying to extend my headband out fully, if I slightly flex the cups outward the full-extension slips back-in.
> Now, this is actually my preferred fit, but I am left wondering if this is normal operation or if my set-screw has become loose.
> ...


I’ve noticed when tilting the cups inward and outward over time that the headband gradually slips back in. It seems like it is probably normal behavior given the physics of it all. If I do not tilt the cups inward or outward, the headband stays pretty extended. I adjust the cups depending on genre, so I ever so often have to fully extend the headband and kind of start over


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> I’ve noticed when tilting the cups inward and outward over time that the headband gradually slips back in. It seems like it is probably normal behavior given the physics of it all. If I do not tilt the cups inward or outward, the headband stays pretty extended. I adjust the cups depending on genre, so I ever so often have to fully extend the headband and kind of start over


This makes sense, then. The headband extending out still provides resistance. And it would seem the mechanism there-in is relied more on the o-ring stretch/spring action.

Thank you.


----------



## attmci

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Hi folks, I  have an issue with my pads, the glue which puts the leather to frame is oozing out and makes my pads a sticky mess (right where one touches them and it stays on the fingers), plus they are also slowly getting detached. They are exactly one year old and where always nicely cared for (not wet or even sweaty). I actually think too much glue was applied when manufactured.
> 
> I do currently not have the funds to buy new pads ... so, any ideas what to do? May be take them off altogether, clean it all to get rid of the residue glue, and get a new layer on it?
> Any ideas highly appreciated.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002JOVUO0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I believed I had warned you? Sorry to learn it happens.......... Not sure if the 3M scotch may help.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

attmci said:


> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002JOVUO0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> I believed I had warned you? Sorry to learn it happens.......... Not sure if the 3M scotch may help.




Thanks for the link. Did you warn me ... from using my headphone ?


----------



## Roasty

got my headphones back! Turnaround time was just under 2 months. It's so good to be listening to music through the 1266 once more! thank you, guys at Abyss, for getting my headphones back to tip top condition!


----------



## Focux

Roasty said:


> got my headphones back! Turnaround time was just under 2 months. It's so good to be listening to music through the 1266 once more! thank you, guys at Abyss, for getting my headphones back to tip top condition!



don’t think they’ll get much head time once another totl comes along


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Roasty said:


> got my headphones back! Turnaround time was just under 2 months. It's so good to be listening to music through the 1266 once more! thank you, guys at Abyss, for getting my headphones back to tip top condition!


Ah, new headband as well.


----------



## Roasty

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Ah, new headband as well.



Actually these are my 2nd old model headband which I got a while back to replace the one with the broken O ring. I did order the new model though, but haven't gotten it yet.


----------



## yagislav

Roasty said:


> got my headphones back! Turnaround time was just under 2 months. It's so good to be listening to music through the 1266 once more! thank you, guys at Abyss, for getting my headphones back to tip top condition!


What happened with your pair that you were without them for?


----------



## Roasty

yagislav said:


> What happened with your pair that you were without them for?



Right side driver had some issues. No sound from R channel until volume raised up high. Then sound would play. After volume reduced for normal listening, the R channel would intermittently go silent again, requiring another instance of raising the volume.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Roasty said:


> Actually these are my 2nd old model headband which I got a while back to replace the one with the broken O ring. I did order the new model though, but haven't gotten it yet.



Oh, only had a quick glance .... but looks like new 😁.


----------



## llamaluv

Roasty said:


> got my headphones back! Turnaround time was just under 2 months.


Congrats! Any explanation provided for why it took two months?


----------



## InstantSilence

llamaluv said:


> Congrats! Any explanation provided for why it took two months?


That is such a long time... Ridiculous


----------



## makan

InstantSilence said:


> That is such a long time... Ridiculous


I will let Roasty speak for himself..but I believe he is located in Singapore...so, with COVID, postal service intercontinental has slowed quite a bit.


----------



## vonBaron

My 1266 went from Singapore to Poland in 6 days so it doesn't matter.


----------



## Roasty

llamaluv said:


> Congrats! Any explanation provided for why it took two months?



I'm not sure. Probably took a while for the headphones to ship to and fro. If it was sent via Fedex/DHL etc it takes a few days, but if via insured/registered SingPost it can take up to 3 to 4 weeks. I didn't ask the dealer what method they used. 

I didn't know the headphones were fixed and back in Sg until i got word from the dealer. 

I did email Abyss after that, to ask if they found out what the issue was with the R channel, but not yet received a reply. Will update.


----------



## InstantSilence

Love the sound... Hate the fit.... Idk what to do...


----------



## TheMiddleSky

InstantSilence said:


> That is such a long time... Ridiculous



For us in south east asia, to repair a headphone to US, actually 2 months is normal (not fast service, but not long too). Ok, some companies able to shorten to 1 month. But some others may even more than 3 months. Still not sure what actually happen there in the process.


----------



## vonBaron

My Abbys stuck in customs...
This waiting is kiling me...


----------



## silversurfer616

My Abyss stuck in Auckland lockdown...still have the Diana.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Hi 1266 Owners,
Can anybody tell me the model years and model serial number ranges for the different 1266 model incarnations ? i.e. (assuming I have these listed correctly); 
1) Original 1266
2) 1266 Phi CC
3) 1266 Phi TC


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Has anybody used the Feliks Audio Euforia (basic model or the 20th Anniversary Edition) Headphone Amplifier with the 1266's ? 

If so, were they good synergy and does the Euforia have enough power for the 1266's to give their best ?


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Hi 1266 Owners,
> Can anybody tell me the model years and model serial number ranges for the different 1266 model incarnations ? i.e. (assuming I have these listed correctly);
> 1) Original 1266
> 2) 1266 Phi CC
> 3) 1266 Phi TC


If the serial number for the Abyss 1266 is *8027503 *does anybody know what model and year of manufacture that would be ?


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> If the serial number for the Abyss 1266 is *8027503 *does anybody know what model and year of manufacture that would be ?


Just sent an email to Abyss to their website contact email address:  info@Abyss-Headphones.com asking this question.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Just sent an email to Abyss to their website contact email address:  info@Abyss-Headphones.com asking this question.


Abyss have very kindly and quickly replied back to my email that it is an original (earlier model).


----------



## fiiom11pro

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Abyss have very kindly and quickly replied back to my email that it is an original (earlier model).





we'll it seems like you are talking to yourself, asked the question, answered your question and got a reply from yourself.
I hope somebody can help you.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

fiiom11pro said:


> we'll it seems like you are talking to yourself, asked the question, answered your question and got a reply from yourself.
> I hope somebody can help you.


Lol .   Thats ok.  I guess my US cousins are now at work or even maybe still sleeping (if on the West Coast).    
I have found out that as well as being a five year old original model it's also a non phi model too.   
There is a pair going on UK ebay for £2,500 or best offer ! 

Maybe someone will come back to me on the Feliks Audio Euforia Headphone Amp, although as I am a big Chord Electronics fan owning a Hugo 2 and two Chord Choral speaker systems, if I do buy a set of 1266's I could possibly run them off one of my Choral speaker systems rather than buying a headphone amp )knowing that the Hugo 2 is way too underpowered for the 1266's.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Lol .   Thats ok.  I guess my US cousins are now at work or even maybe still sleeping (if on the West Coast).
> I have found out that as well as being a five year old original model it's also a non phi model too.
> There is a pair going on UK ebay for £2,500 or best offer !
> 
> Maybe someone will come back to me on the Feliks Audio Euforia Headphone Amp, although as I am a big Chord Electronics fan owning a Hugo 2 and two Chord Choral speaker systems, if I do buy a set of 1266's I could possibly run them off one of my Choral speaker systems rather than buying a headphone amp )knowing that the Hugo 2 is way too underpowered for the 1266's.


Also read on this forum that the Chord Dave is also not powerful enough for the 1266's and even the Hugo TT2 also doesn't bring out the best with the 1266's.  
It looks like a second hand Formula S (ideally with the separate dedicated power supply) is the way to go for value for money and performance hooked up to a Hugo 2 or the Chord Qutest DAC


----------



## fiiom11pro

yes. go with formula S. They are made for it.


----------



## Bonddam

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Has anybody used the Feliks Audio Euforia (basic model or the 20th Anniversary Edition) Headphone Amplifier with the 1266's ?
> 
> If so, were they good synergy and does the Euforia have enough power for the 1266's to give their best ?



I have that amp along with the WA33. The Euphoria can power it though I had some distortion at higher volumes. This is in regards to listening to edm. When I put on Metallica I'm not sure if it's distortion in the guitars or the way it should sound.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Bonddam said:


> I have that amp along with the WA33. The Euphoria can power it though I had some distortion at higher volumes. This is in regards to listening to edm. When I put on Metallica I'm not sure if it's distortion in the guitars or the way it should sound.


Thank you for your reply Bonddam.   Much appreciated.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

fiiom11pro said:


> yes. go with formula S. They are made for it.


Thank you fiiom11pro for your positive feedback.


----------



## JLoud

The HeadAmp GSX mk2 sounds very nice with the AbyssTc. As does the Woo WA5le second edition. Depends if you like tubes or SS. I see a couple of people here have the WA33. Any comparisons to the WA5le? Thinking of upgrading but not sure if it is worth the bump in price. I do like the spaciousness of the WA5 and don't want to go too solid state sounding.


----------



## Bonddam

The nice thing about the WA5le is there are more tube options for rolling.


----------



## typalder (Aug 24, 2020)

Bonddam said:


> The nice thing about the WA5le is there are more tube options for rolling.



i run my 1266 phi with a mcintosh ma6700 via the speaker taps. can`t get any better. so my advice is: why not using a solid integrated speaker amp via speaker taps instead of a "normal" headphone amp? all you need is this: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Balanced-XL...5-HE6-HE5LE-HE500-cable-adapter-/172733755771


----------



## typalder

typalder said:


> i run my 1266 phi with a mcintosh ma6700 via the speaker taps. can`t get any better. so my advice is: why not using a solid integrated speaker amp via speaker taps instead of a "normal" headphone amp? all you need is this: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Balanced-XL...5-HE6-HE5LE-HE500-cable-adapter-/172733755771



ps: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/speaker-amps-for-headphones.649107/page-218#post-15820242


----------



## Roasty

I had two months without the TC Phi and that meant two months listening with the Utopia and Stellia. Now that the TC Phi is back, I haven't reached for either of the Focals.. The TC really are technically superior. 

Heard back from Abyss but not much details available on the fix. Just a note from the service crew saying headphones were repaired and tested. Presumably a loose connection. Well, am just thankful they're back. 

I decided to change my pad config to 3 and 9 o'clock with slight toe in and the front of the pads gently resting on my temples. More focused central imaging with great mids and highs and so much more bass and sub-bass than the same frame position and pads at 2 and 10 o'clock. 

WA22 + WE421a + mullard ECC35 + tak274b seems to have enough power to drive the TC. The volume dial is at about 11 o'clock. Any more and it's just too loud for me. But sigh.. why am I still thinking of the WA33...


----------



## InstantSilence

I've never heard tube amp. Is it a loss in resolution and clarity vs a SS amp, with th TC?


----------



## makan

Roasty said:


> I decided to change my pad config to 3 and 9 o'clock with slight toe in and the front of the pads gently resting on my temples. More focused central imaging with great mids and highs and so much more bass and sub-bass than the same frame position and pads at 2 and 10 o'clock.


I have moved to exactly that position and toe-in, and it is the best for both comfort and sound for me.  Enjoy...the TC has taken over top spot for time on my head vs the Empyrean, Susvara, Raal Sr1a, Stax 009, 007mk1 and LCD-4.  It is also very comfy with the replacement sennheiser HD580 sticky pad under the abyss headband while on the recliner.  I am also developed a preference for the superconductor cable vs stock and moon silver dragon...I was secretly hoping that I wouldn't take too much of a liking to the TC or the superconductor cable, so that I can save some $$...but alas, the TC is king!  The one curiosity I have is the D8000 pro....


----------



## tholt

makan said:


> The one curiosity I have is the D8000 pro....


Curious about that one as well.


----------



## vonBaron

My 1266 just arrive!!


----------



## Focux

vonBaron said:


> My 1266 just arrive!!



this the one you mentioned that shipped from SG?


----------



## Roasty

vonBaron said:


> My 1266 just arrive!!



Congrats man! I think u may want to check out the dedicated 1266 Rooms stand, so your headphones don't rest on the headband, and instead rest in the metal frame.


----------



## InstantSilence

Roasty said:


> Congrats man! I think u may want to check out the dedicated 1266 Rooms stand, so your headphones don't rest on the headband, and instead rest in the metal frame.


Can you post a photo of that?


----------



## MatW

InstantSilence said:


> Can you post a photo of that?


https://www.headphoneauditions.nl/product/haa-abyss-stand/


----------



## Hoegaardener70




----------



## Hoegaardener70

Forgot to add, I like mine very much - prettiest headphone stand I own. Well, once more you get what you pay for ...


----------



## InstantSilence

MatW said:


> https://www.headphoneauditions.nl/product/haa-abyss-stand/


Jeez... One of the ugliest I've seen, but its function for the TC is great


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Aug 25, 2020)

nm


----------



## ahossam

My stretching O ring has failed



This is my temporary fix until the newly design headband arrived.

On their website they said you can now replace the O ring, any info on where to get it? and what is the size?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ahossam said:


> My stretching O ring has failed
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can replace the o-ring by paying 200 dollars to get a headband which allows you to replace the o-ring


----------



## vonBaron (Aug 25, 2020)

Focux said:


> this the one you mentioned that shipped from SG?


Yep 
They look like new!


Roasty said:


> Congrats man! I think u may want to check out the dedicated 1266 Rooms stand, so your headphones don't rest on the headband, and instead rest in the metal frame.


I know, only for photo i do that.
But when i listen them i put something betwen metal frame and headband becouse they drag my ears down.
Just like @ahossam


----------



## vonBaron

ahossam said:


> My stretching O ring has failed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You just buy spring nylon wire and replace it, easy 200$ save


----------



## ahossam

Hoegaardener70 said:


> You can replace the o-ring by paying 200 dollars to get a headband which allows you to replace the o-ring



No, with their new headband design you can replace the O ring individually so you don't need to buy new headband every time the O ring break.


----------



## MatW (Aug 25, 2020)

ahossam said:


> No, with their new headband design you can replace the O ring individually so you don't need to buy new headband every time the O ring break.


That's what he said.   But I understand you already ordered one of the new headbands. Thinking of getting one too.


----------



## ahossam

MatW said:


> That's what he said.   But I understand you already ordered one.



Oh shoot I misread what @Hoegaardener70 wrote, sorry. Yes I have pre order it.


----------



## vonBaron

I find CC pads a little to bright for me comapred to OG.
The bass is there but midrange is dry.


----------



## Bonddam (Aug 25, 2020)

I wonder if I'd like the original over the new pads? One thing tthat bothers me is I have to sit still or the bass moves around because of seal issues.


----------



## attmci

ahossam said:


> My stretching O ring has failed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Joe should recall the old headband and replace them with the new one.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ahossam said:


> No, with their new headband design you can replace the O ring individually so you don't need to buy new headband every time the O ring break.



That's what I said. Pay 200 and get a


attmci said:


> Joe should recall the old headband and replace them with the new one.




100% agreed. Or at least a 50% discount if you send in the old one.


----------



## MAURO16164

Hello, who bought the new headband could you kindly give me the exact measurements in centimeters? Length, width and thickness. I assume the length is identical to the old model but I don't know the other measures. The thickness seems to me doubled while the width I don't know. Can anyone who bought it help me please? Thank you.


----------



## F208Frank (Aug 26, 2020)

Stopped visiting head fi for a while, put on the Abyss 1266 and damn, these headphones are just too amazing. Not many things make me crack a smirk or smile while entering the "flow state" state of mind.

When you don't use them for a few weeks and then put them back on, it's like that first date feeling all over again. Just pure pure bliss.


----------



## vonBaron

1266 really have massive bass! 
Only headphone who i listen to to gave me this speaker bass vibe. 
Even my Final D8000 it's nothing compared to them.


----------



## InstantSilence

vonBaron said:


> 1266 really have massive bass!
> Only headphone who i listen to to gave me this speaker bass vibe.
> Even my Final D8000 it's nothing compared to them.


Does the final have more clarity or resolution? Not that's its needed I guess. Just curious vs the TC


----------



## vonBaron

I never heard TC but vs Phi no.


----------



## Trance_Gott

vonBaron said:


> I find CC pads a little to bright for me comapred to OG.
> The bass is there but midrange is dry.



Hehe i told you that the Abyss midrange is not so good and RAD-0 is a lot better in this department! Abyss has slam, kicks hard, but midrange sounds not real to my ears.


----------



## vonBaron

Well on OG pads still out classes RAD-0 imo.


----------



## GPD1

Hi .. has anyone compared the XIAUDIO Formula S and the Woo Audio WA 33 ?  If so any thoughts/opinions?


----------



## Joe Skubinski

@Trance_Gott a bit bored on the German forum after chasing everyone away 🥳


----------



## Roasty

Night Garden by Benee

Omg the bass on this song sounds phenomenal with the TC!


----------



## JLoud

I would like to see a YouTube Abyss video comparing the WA5le vs WA33. Enjoyed the WA33 video, curious how the WA5 compares. I believe Joe from Abyss used to have one. Thoughts Joe?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Joe Skubinski said:


> @Trance_Gott a bit bored on the German forum after chasing everyone away 🥳



I hear David Hasselhoff is very popular and active on that forum.


----------



## ken6217 (Aug 27, 2020)

attmci said:


> Joe should recall the old headband and replace them with the new one.



Why should he do that? If someone has an issue, they can let him now and then he’ll deal with it on a one on one basis. There’s no reason for him to replace headbands that are still perfectly fine. I use mine multiple times a day since I bought it in November and have had no issues. Yes, some people have had issues, but not everyone. You only hear about the people that have issues. People are not going to arbitrarily make a post and say hey I’m using my headphones and the band is not broken.


----------



## MacedonianHero

ken6217 said:


> why should he do that? If someone has an issue, they let him now and then he’ll deal with it on a one on one basis. There’s no reason for him to replace headbands that are still perfectly fine. I use mine multiple times a day since I bought it in November and have had no issues.



I've owned both the Phi and Phi TC. The Phi for 2 years and the Phi TC since October...never had an issue and my headband is extended to the max for my noggin'.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

JLoud said:


> I would like to see a YouTube Abyss video comparing the WA5le vs WA33. Enjoyed the WA33 video, curious how the WA5 compares. I believe Joe from Abyss used to have one. Thoughts Joe?



Not a bad idea... I owned the older WA5, will ask Woo if they have a demo LE available.



MacedonianHero said:


> I hear David Hasselhoff is very popular and active on that forum.


----------



## attmci

ken6217 said:


> Why should he do that? If someone has an issue, they can let him now and then he’ll deal with it on a one on one basis. There’s no reason for him to replace headbands that are still perfectly fine. I use mine multiple times a day since I bought it in November and have had no issues. Yes, some people have had issues, but not everyone. You only hear about the people that have issues. People are not going to arbitrarily make a post and say hey I’m using my headphones and the band is not broken.



A *recall* is issued when a manufacturer determines that there is an issue in the design of their product and willing to make their customers happy. They don't have to wait until all the defected product broken. 

I am glad you are happy with your O-ring. Good luck in the future.


----------



## ken6217

attmci said:


> A *recall* is issued when a manufacturer determines that there is an issue in the design of their product and willing to make their customers happy. They don't have to wait until all the defected product broken.
> 
> I am glad you are happy with your O-ring. Good luck in the future.



I'm glad you defined *Recall* for me as I never really knew what it meant. I appreciate that. 

Go back in the thread and you will see Joe addressed that and said that the amount of defective O rings were a small amount of the total amount shipped.

No need to be condescending or obnoxious. I'm sorry some one pissed on your corn flakes.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Aug 27, 2020)

ken6217 said:


> I'm glad you defined *Recall* for me as I never really knew what it meant. I appreciate that.
> 
> Go back in the thread and you will see Joe addressed that and said that the amount of defective O rings were a small amount of the total amount shipped.
> 
> No need to be condescending or obnoxious. I'm sorry some one pissed on your corn flakes.



Nobody is condescending here, my O-ring is broken as well, as is my pad. For both I am expected to pay hundreds of dollars for replacement after exactly twelve months. I worked MY ASS OFF in long night shifts to get the money for the tc together. If you are lucky - good for you - but do not start this "for me all works and therefore you shut up" crap.


----------



## ken6217

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Nobody is condescending here, my O-ring is broken as well, as is my pad. For both I am expected to pay hundreds of dollars for replacement after exactly twelve months. I worked MY ASS OFF in long night shifts to get the money for the tc together. If you are lucky - good for you - but do not start this "for me all works and therefore you shut up" crap.



You're incorrectly reading into what I'm saying. I didn't say it works for me and so f*uck everyone else. That's your interpretation. 

What I said is that how do you say something should be recalled for a defect when you have zero idea what percent are defective? I have no affiliation with Abyss. Your'e welcome to your opinion just as I am. It seems to me that Abyss has been very good a taking care of individual owners issues. I guess that's not good enough for you. 

If mine breaks, I'll order another headband. That's life. crap happens.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Aug 28, 2020)

ken6217 said:


> It seems to me that Abyss has been very good a taking care of individual owners issues. I guess that's not good enough for you.



I was told that my badly glued pad which broke after a year is considered a wear and tear item which needs to be repurchased for $440. The pad was a bit faulty from the beginning but I did not do/say anything because I was totally sure they would take good care of me. Go figure.

I also would not mind buying a headband for $220 if I chose to do so at that moment. Doing so after again one year because of some o-ring  ... not so much.

It is great that you will "just buy another" if it happens ... good on you, mate! Really good! But for me, in 2020, I cannot do this. So .... no, it is not good enough.


----------



## ken6217

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I was told that my badly glued pad which broke after a year is considered a wear and tear item which needs to be repurchased for $440. The pad was a bit faulty from the beginning but I did not do/say anything because I was totally sure they would take good care of me. Go figure.
> 
> I also would not mind buying a headband for $220 if I chose to do so at that moment. Doing so after again one year because of some o-ring  ... not so much.
> 
> It is great that you will "just buy another" if it happens ... good on you, mate! Really good! But for me, in 2020, I cannot do this. So .... no, it is not good enough.



I emphasize with the problems you have, but my comments and yours are not about the same thing. Yes you’ve had a couple of issues, and yes you have the right to be upset.

However, I’m only commenting on the fact that no one can say that a product should have a recall without first knowing the percentage of defects. So for this you need to know the total sold, and the total defective. Then figure out the percentage.


----------



## koven

Just noticed the new pads ETA delayed to Sep-21.  Think it was originally next week..


----------



## Abyss Headphones

The new headbands are hand made in small batches. While they are a bit behind we plan to begin shipping preorders next week as they become available.
The current ETA shown is for new orders.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> I emphasize with the problems you have, but my comments and yours are not about the same thing. Yes you’ve had a couple of issues, and yes you have the right to be upset.
> 
> However, I’m only commenting on the fact that no one can say that a product should have a recall without first knowing the percentage of defects. So for this you need to know the total sold, and the total defective. Then figure out the percentage.


I agree here and there.

Regardless, Abyss is only bringing bad optics upon themselves.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> I agree here and there.
> 
> Regardless, Abyss is only bringing bad optics upon themselves.



Not really. It’s a handful of members on the forum that Have had an issue and state how there should be a product recall when they have no idea what the percentage of failure is. It’s a 
kin to calling fire in a movie theater.

Maybe the percentage is high, and maybe the percentage is low. But none of us know so there’s no reason to disparage the company.


----------



## silversurfer616

On the other hand what percentage does constitute a recall issue? There’s no general acknowledged figure so it’s up to the individual company.


----------



## Roasty

my take is, Abyss knows they have a good product and a good fan base, and they do things by the book.

I don't expect nor demand special service or preferential treatment, but it is always nice when a company takes the initiative to go that extra mile. I've had a few vendors which have gone out of their way when they absolutely did not have to, but that little bit of extra service from them went a long way in customer satisfaction, peace of mind, and repeat patronage.

A few folks here have issues with broken O rings. For those affected, how many have Abyss reached out to first or initiated "first contact"? we do know Abyss does read this thread; again I do know they're not expected to, but it would be a "nice" gesture if they reached out and said hey sorry to hear about that, it's a rare incident, we can't do a freebie but maybe a 20 buck off discount voucher would help? A little goes a long way.. If the number of o ring issues are small, then it really wouldn't hurt to try and make good on it. And another guy here had issue with his pads but from what was communicated to me, the response he got from abyss could have been better.

Personally, I was disappointed that I didn't get the extended warranty given I sent in my request form about 2 to 3 months past the 3 month from purchase eligibility period. As mentioned previously, I didn't even know about it nor did my local dealer inform me. I think there are some here who also did not know about it as well. Till now I don't understand the logic behind this requirement. 

Again, its not that we are expecting favours or special treatment. If you've had abyss go the extra mile for you, then great. Just expect that it isn't extended to everyone, and realize it's not their obligation to anyways. God knows I love my TC Phi, and if the stars align, in all likelihood I'll be ordering the wa33 jps edition from them soon.


----------



## ken6217

silversurfer616 said:


> On the other hand what percentage does constitute a recall issue? There’s no general acknowledged figure so it’s up to the individual company.



We have no idea how many people have had an issue and how many units were sold regardless. In manufacturing, it’s generally 3% I believe.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Aug 28, 2020)

Never mind. Happy Friday.


----------



## Jeweltopia

I know that this has probably been mentioned somewhere in these 796 pages, but, I don't want to sift through this whole forum. 

What are some budget amps that will push the Abyss 1266 Phi TC? By budget, I mean $500 or so. I'm leaning towards a JDS Labs Element II or a THX XXX 789 because I know that they have enough power. I know that every amp has its own unique flavor which is why sometimes having enough power doesn't mean that it'll sound it's full potential. I'll gladly work towards upgrading my amp/dac setup over the next year or so but want something to hold me over until then because I'm looking to get an Abyss by October or November. My current amp, the Rupert Neve RNHP, isn't strong enough to push the Abyss and I want a budget friendly solution until then.

Sorry if this has been asked time and time again. Just a girl trying to find some answers, here. Thanks in advance to anyone who helps out.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Jeweltopia said:


> I know that this has probably been mentioned somewhere in these 796 pages, but, I don't want to sift through this whole forum.
> 
> What are some budget amps that will push the Abyss 1266 Phi TC? By budget, I mean $500 or so. I'm leaning towards a JDS Labs Element II or a THX XXX 789 because I know that they have enough power. I know that every amp has its own unique flavor which is why sometimes having enough power doesn't mean that it'll sound it's full potential. I'll gladly work towards upgrading my amp/dac setup over the next year or so but want something to hold me over until then because I'm looking to get an Abyss by October or November. My current amp, the Rupert Neve RNHP, isn't strong enough to push the Abyss and I want a budget friendly solution until then.
> 
> Sorry if this has been asked time and time again. Just a girl trying to find some answers, here. Thanks in advance to anyone who helps out.



The Schiit Lyr can drive them...plenty of power on tap and an amp that kicks like a mule.


----------



## tholt

Jeweltopia said:


> What are some budget amps that will push the Abyss 1266 Phi TC? By budget, I mean $500 or so.





MacedonianHero said:


> The Schiit Lyr can drive them...plenty of power on tap and an amp that kicks like a mule.


There was someone in this thread a long while back who loved the Lyr 3 with his 1266. I've used the Cayin iHA-6 and it sounds great. $700 new I believe so if you can find one used it would be within your budget.


----------



## MacedonianHero

tholt said:


> There was someone in this thread a long while back who loved the Lyr 3 with his 1266. I've used the Cayin iHA-6 and it sounds great. $700 new I believe so if you can find one used it would be within your budget.



It can drive the HE-6SE and Susvara, so the Phi TC would be no sweat....and for the price, very hard to beat!


----------



## Jeweltopia

I can stretch my budget, $200-300 on top wouldn't be breaking the bank by any means.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys! What about the new Magnius from Schiit? I love Schiit amps and was going to place an order for a Magnius anyway due to wanting to replace my old Schiit Heresy because I love the house sound of the Magni amps. Looks like the balanced power on the Magnius is a beast compared to single ended.


----------



## tholt

MacedonianHero said:


> It can drive the HE-6SE and Susvara, so the Phi TC would be no sweat....and for the price, very hard to beat!



The Lyr? Always wanted to try one with the 1266 to see. Definitely in the rarified 'budget' category that can drive the Abyss



Jeweltopia said:


> I can stretch my budget, $200-300 on top wouldn't be breaking the bank by any means.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions, guys! What about the new Magnius from Schiit? I love Schiit amps and was going to place an order for a Magnius anyway due to wanting to replace my old Schiit Heresy because I love the house sound of the Magni amps. Looks like the balanced power on the Magnius is a beast compared to single ended.


I don't have experience with the Magnius. I did try the Mjolnir 2 but didn't like it. Someone else here did though, maybe he'll weigh in. The Flux FA-10 might be worth looking into as well. I thought it was a great amp for the price. Warmish, but I like a warmish amp with the Abyss. The FA-10 Pro is apparently more neutral. Either is $750 new, plus shipping.


----------



## gonzalo1004es

Hi, I’m selling my Abyss Phi CC, just in case someone is interested: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/abyss-phi-cc-lite.941021


----------



## Adrian2215 (Aug 29, 2020)

Jeweltopia said:


> I know that this has probably been mentioned somewhere in these 796 pages, but, I don't want to sift through this whole forum.
> 
> What are some budget amps that will push the Abyss 1266 Phi TC? By budget, I mean $500 or so. I'm leaning towards a JDS Labs Element II or a THX XXX 789 because I know that they have enough power. I know that every amp has its own unique flavor which is why sometimes having enough power doesn't mean that it'll sound it's full potential. I'll gladly work towards upgrading my amp/dac setup over the next year or so but want something to hold me over until then because I'm looking to get an Abyss by October or November. My current amp, the Rupert Neve RNHP, isn't strong enough to push the Abyss and I want a budget friendly solution until then.
> 
> Sorry if this has been asked time and time again. Just a girl trying to find some answers, here. Thanks in advance to anyone who helps out.




Hey,

i have received my 1266 tc with the new headband a few days ago and im using right now the thx 789 as a amp until i can afford something like the gsx mini.

Regarding your question, the 789 is strong enough to push the 1266 and the quality is also really good. Ive bought it from a brick and mortar dealer and even he wasnt expecting that good soundqualtity for the 1266 for that price... But let me say in my chain the dac is important, I use a sabaj d5 just as a dac and everything sounds really good.

Once i connect just for testing purpose my fiio m11 as a dac everything sounded really off and too bright...

So for me the thx 789 is a good choice for the money until you can afford something better.

please take everything here with a grain of salt, ive just listend to the 1266 for about 15 Hours and burn in time is like 40 Hours right now and i never heard the "good" amps so maybe i dont know what im missing but still the 789 is a beast for the money in my opinion.


My Upgrading route is like listening to the 1266 on my 789 and in the meantime i will try to test a few other amps and then i will deceide how much i want to spent (i would love to test the wa33 once i find a dealer that has one...)  and buy the "perfect" amp for my case with my money in my mind and with my preference of the sound. 

Thats the same way i bought the 1266... i wanted to buy zmf verite or meze empyrean but then i heard the 1266 and was shocked of how much of a gap there is between a 3k headphone and the 1266 so i deceided to spent that extra money on the 1266 instead of going with the zmf and always graving the 1266.


----------



## MacedonianHero

tholt said:


> The Lyr? Always wanted to try one with the 1266 to see. Definitely in the rarified 'budget' category that can drive the Abyss
> 
> 
> I don't have experience with the Magnius. I did try the Mjolnir 2 but didn't like it. Someone else here did though, maybe he'll weigh in. The Flux FA-10 might be worth looking into as well. I thought it was a great amp for the price. Warmish, but I like a warmish amp with the Abyss. The FA-10 Pro is apparently more neutral. Either is $750 new, plus shipping.



Back in the day, the Lyr was developed by Schiit to drive the original HE-6 specifically.


----------



## typalder

My advice: buy a good quality speaker amp and use the abyss via the speaker taps. that`s what i do and it`s awesome. all u need is this: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Balanced-XL...5-HE6-HE5LE-HE500-cable-adapter-/172733755771


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Aug 29, 2020)

nm


----------



## tholt

typalder said:


> My advice: buy a good quality speaker amp and use the abyss via the speaker taps. that`s what i do and it`s awesome. all u need is this: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Balanced-XL...5-HE6-HE5LE-HE500-cable-adapter-/172733755771


IME it's not as easy as just finding any speaker amp and using it to drive the Abyss and assuming everything will be great. Gain can be an issue, as well as general compatibility. I was on this hunt for a while, eventually tried two speaker amps, neither worked out. Gain was too much on both, sound was less than ideal.


----------



## ken6217

tholt said:


> IME it's not as easy as just finding any speaker amp and using it to drive the Abyss and assuming everything will be great. Gain can be an issue, as well as general compatibility. I was on this hunt for a while, eventually tried two speaker amps, neither worked out. Gain was too much on both, sound was less than ideal.



He can get recommendations from others in this forum who have done it with great success.

Simaudio 600i is popular here. I have tried that as well as Audio Research and Pass Alan speaker and all have sounded amazing.


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> He can get recommendations from others in this forum who have done it with great success.
> 
> Simaudio 600i is popular here. I have tried that as well as Audio Research and Pass Alan speaker and all have sounded amazing.


Of course if that user was so inclined. However, those that you mention are way outside her budget. A speaker amp is one option, certainly not the only one.


----------



## Jeweltopia (Aug 29, 2020)

Adrian2215 said:


> Hey,
> 
> i have received my 1266 tc with the new headband a few days ago and im using right now the thx 789 as a amp until i can afford something like the gsx mini.
> 
> ...



I don't have a ZMF Verite but I do own the Empyrean. I just sold it. I bought it used for a very good price and actually sold it the other day and will ship it out on Monday. In my humble opinion when it comes to the Meze Empyrean, there are two types of people. Some people love the lack of detail retrieval, the heavy bass, and how laid back it is. Some people find it absolutely muddy, boring, dull, and feel as though it doesn't sound like their price tag. I was somewhere in the middle and liked it for some genres and music, but, I spent a few weeks with them and realized that they are just not for me. I fortunately got them used and actually resold them for a tiny bit more than I originally paid, so, I lost nothing.

I love my Focal Stellia and my HD800S with a passion. Lots of TOTL models that I've tried and auditioned before 2020 happened felt like side grades to me vs upgrades. I'm using my disposable income and the profits of selling off the Meze Empyrean (and maybe some more lesser used gear) to fund my Abyss 1266 TC and a good amp for it. Based off of someone's suggestion here, I'm strongly leaning towards the Cayin IHA-6 because it was already on my radar prior to this. I could always grab a THX XXX 789 and an Element II amp from JDS Labs and see which one I like best as well with the Abyss. Whichever one I don't like as much, I can always re-sell and take a small loss on it. Abyss themselves recommended the JDS Labs Element II to me when I emailed them asking about budget amps, and, they told me that it would be a good one to pair with them without breaking the bank.

I might also pick up the Raal SR1A at some point as well, so, I hear that the Jotunheim R can drive these, which I plan to get when I go that route. It'll probably be a few more weeks until I actually have the Abyss, and I'm so excited, because I auditioned the original 1266 (non CC or TC) version in NYC when I was there a few years ago and it's haunted me ever since.


----------



## tholt

Jeweltopia said:


> Abyss themselves recommended the JDS Labs Element II to me when I emailed them asking about budget amps, and, they told me that it would be a good one to pair with them without breaking the bank.



Interesting recommendation. That thing is quite inexpensive!


Jeweltopia said:


> I auditioned the original 1266 (non CC or TC) version in NYC when I was there a few years ago and it's haunted me ever since.


Same for me. I first heard the OG at a CES and I never forgot it. It was years later that I purchased a pair, in large part due to remembering experience.

The Cayin was a great amp IMO. It lasted through other amps that came and went.


----------



## Jeweltopia

Cayin it is, then!

Thanks for all the help, guys. It's been hard finding amp recommendations within this budget but I'm fairly positive that the Cayin will be a good choice.


----------



## Litlgi74

Wow... Simply fabulous!




https://tidal.com/track/36534563

Don't crank it to loud.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Aug 30, 2020)

Jeweltopia said:


> Cayin it is, then!
> 
> Thanks for all the help, guys. It's been hard finding amp recommendations within this budget but I'm fairly positive that the Cayin will be a good choice.


If it's just to "hold you over"... The Cayin iha-6 is a good choice. Especially if you can pick one up second hand. I too started out with the Iha-6. But it wasn't long (few months) before I was demoing amps that could really deliver the performance the TCs require.

With the help and encouragement of other users... I landed on the SimAudio Moon 600i speaker amp. I wish you could have seen the look on the salesman's face when he heard that I wanted to plug my headphones into a speaker amp via the speaker taps... It was priceless... He too was blown away by what he heard from the Abyss/Moon combo. There was simply no going back to the Iha-6.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not knocking the Cayin amplifier... It is what it is... A budget amp. But eventually you are going to need a special kind of power. Like myself, many find the fix in a high quality speaker amp.

Congrats on your new path to audio bliss... There's no going back now.


----------



## Jeweltopia

Litlgi74 said:


> If it's just to "hold you over"... The Cayin iha-6 is a good choice. Especially if you can pick one up second hand. I too started out with the Iha-6. But it wasn't long (few months) before I was demoing amps that could really deliver the performance the TCs require.
> 
> With the help and encouragement of other users... I landed on the SimAudio Moon 600i speaker amp. I wish you could have seen the look on the salesman's face when he heard that I wanted to plug my headphones into a speaker amp via the speaker taps... It was priceless... He too was blown away by what he heard from the Abyss/Moon combo. There was simply no going back to the Iha-6.
> 
> ...



Thank you. I actually already find a lot of bliss in my Focal Stellia and my Sennheiser HD800S, but, I want that rollercoaster ride which is the Abyss TC. As much as I love my current headphones, they aren't really end game for me, because to me end game has to be something more profound and earth-shattering. I might be able to place an order on the Abyss in as little as 2-4 weeks, depending. Not gonna lie, 2020 slowed me down a tad bit. I'm currently rocking a full time work-from-home job and two side jobs that I also do from home. The profit margin is what is allowing me to get my dream Abyss 1266 Phi TC, but, I just can't drop several grand on an amp at this time. Hopefully the Cayin will hold me over just fine. I see people running the Abyss off of $200 and $300 amps and being satisfied. Might not be the best of the best, but, it's better than nothing.


----------



## AlanYWM

Hi,
Lately I have been experiencing intermittent cut off from one driver in my Abyss 1266 TC. This happened quite randomly. The HP is always connected to the Nimbus HPA US4+. I was told by the guy at the shop that all I needed to do it was to turn up the volume for a few seconds and both drivers should be working fine after that. He said something about "waking up the sleepy driver"?   I tried it and it seemed to work but my question is if this is normal? I have never experienced this is with my 1266 Phi. Any thoughts?


----------



## MatW

Type the word 'sleep' in the search field of this thread and you will find some similar stories. I hope you will find a useful answer there. I have not personally had issues with this.


----------



## Roasty

AlanYWM said:


> Hi,
> Lately I have been experiencing intermittent cut off from one driver in my Abyss 1266 TC. This happened quite randomly. The HP is always connected to the Nimbus HPA US4+. I was told by the guy at the shop that all I needed to do it was to turn up the volume for a few seconds and both drivers should be working fine after that. He said something about "waking up the sleepy driver"?   I tried it and it seemed to work but my question is if this is normal? I have never experienced this is with my 1266 Phi. Any thoughts?



Lol this seems like deja vu. 

I had the exact same problem with my TC. No, it is not normal. I had mine sent back to Abyss recently. I don't have the exact details, but the guy replying my emails said their service side repaired and tested it, and from the description of the problem I gave, he postulated there was a loose connection somewhere. My TC came back after 2 months and is working fine now. 

AV One? If it is still under warranty, they can send it back on your behalf. If out of warranty, I think u have to ship it back yourself.


----------



## AlanYWM

Thanks for the information. I guess I have to send it back for servicing


----------



## spotforscott

Just received the new headband! Nice and plush vs old. My biggest interest in te new headband was the detachability. 

Context: I have never found the Abyss HP comfortable. The strap running straight across just does not work for me because it creates a pressure spot where the band touches and this leads to a headache if I have them on for more than an hour or two. So for my head, the headband design is a big fail. I have tried various ways of overcoming this pain point. I would have sold the TC a long time ago if it didn't sound so good. 

Anyways, when the new strap came out, I saw new opportunities to create a comfortable strap with the detachable feature. What this has allowed me to do is use 3 larger rubber rings on each side to attach the headband. This works perfectly, won't harm the finish of the HP, and looks somewhat respectable. Importantly, with this tweak, the Abyss spreads the pressure point across the top of my noggin, not just in one tiny spot. 

Love the sound of these TC's and NOW, I like wearing them too


----------



## Ciggavelli

I got a Riviera AIC-10 on loan while my new WA33 Elite/JPS edition gets made.

Man, the AIC-10 is a great match with the TCs. It has the power I was used to with my wa33.  It’s a dead silent amp.  The soundstage is very good. I need some more time with it, but the AIC-10 is just as good as the wa33 standard, and perhaps better (we’ll see as I continue listening).


----------



## Jeweltopia

So, I'm thinking of YOLO'ing and saving for a HeadAmp GS-X mini for when I buy the Abyss. Might still go for the Cayin IHA-6 but am thinking that I could go straight for the big one.


----------



## Bonddam

Go for the mini I don't know if it's better then the Cayin but I remember it sounding awesome with the 1266 tc. It's easier for warranty repairs.


----------



## Jeweltopia

Bonddam said:


> Go for the mini I don't know if it's better then the Cayin but I remember it sounding awesome with the 1266 tc. It's easier for warranty repairs.



I've been lurking on your posts on another site for ages now and really respect your headphone collection.

I have my eyes set on a ZMF Verite after I get the Abyss in a few weeks. Wish I enjoyed the Empyrean as much as you seem to because I just wasn't crazy about it and sold it. I'm looking for something ultra detailed and with a bass slam, which I'm hoping the Abyss and Verite give me once I acquire them.


----------



## Bonddam

Jeweltopia said:


> I've been lurking on your posts on another site for ages now and really respect your headphone collection.
> 
> I have my eyes set on a ZMF Verite after I get the Abyss in a few weeks. Wish I enjoyed the Empyrean as much as you seem to because I just wasn't crazy about it and sold it. I'm looking for something ultra detailed and with a bass slam, which I'm hoping the Abyss and Verite give me once I acquire them.


The bass on Abyss is bass head territory but with sound quality. Verite does smack it isn’t bass light . The Empyrean I only enjoy at louder volume as it’s to subdue at lower it has to do with its bass output that I like so much. Only 2 headphones I have that are not in bass love is LCD 4 and HEkse those are just bass sq. My TH909 have the most slam of the group.


----------



## drc73rp

My current weapon of choice for the TC's. Amp directly driven balanced by Resolution Audio Cantata DAC/Pre. Impressions at the speaker amps for headphones board.

I've tasted the forbidden fruit and may not have the chance to try dedicated headphone amps to convince me to power it with less.


----------



## Adrian2215

did someone hear the 1266 TC with the Formula S and with the GSX mini ? Im looking for a new upgrade for my new 1266 and those too are always recomendet. 

Im looking for a warmish sound signature like some of the woo audio stuff but i cant afford a wa33 jps edition xD 

Another question, can someone direct me to the site where someone was giving a adive regarding the position of the earpars for starters ? I really like it if i angle the 1266 a bit forward but i dont know what pad position should be fine for that kind of listening maybe some of you can recomend me a position and i will try it out  

Thanks in regards 

PS: Im building my own custom made headphone stand for the 1266 i will post a picture once its done


----------



## MatW

Check out these two videos for positioning of earpads etc.


----------



## FLTWS

My new headband just arrived, man is it thick with a plush feeling and significantly wider front to back that the original. I've had no problems with mine but this could be an improvement in comfort. And the possible broken "O" ring is now a non problem. Order a couple sizes off Amazon and work towards that custom fit you always wanted.


----------



## BrowChan

FLTWS said:


> My new headband just arrived, man is it thick with a plush feeling and significantly wider front to back that the original. I've had no problems with mine but this could be an improvement in comfort. And the possible broken "O" ring is now a non problem. Order a couple sizes off Amazon and work towards that custom fit you always wanted.


Those other two stuff (sticker and clip), you get it with the headband, I assume? What’s that clip used for? Removing the O-ring, maybe?


----------



## FLTWS

BrowChan said:


> Those other two stuff (sticker and clip), you get it with the headband, I assume? What’s that clip used for? Removing the O-ring, maybe?



Yes, and guitar pick I presume.


----------



## BrowChan

FLTWS said:


> Yes, and guitar pick I presume.


Thanks, you’re right. Hope I’m able to get one soon as well.


----------



## silkytoad

ahhh


FLTWS said:


> My new headband just arrived, man is it thick with a plush feeling and significantly wider front to back that the original. I've had no problems with mine but this could be an improvement in comfort. And the possible broken "O" ring is now a non problem. Order a couple sizes off Amazon and work towards that custom fit you always wanted.


I'm waiting on mine to arrive, do you have some links for different sized o-rings that fit on amazon to save time and start ordering?


----------



## FLTWS

Go back a few pages, someone else already did. You could also do a search under O or Rings. I'm pretty sure it was sometime last week.


----------



## FLTWS

A search on Amazon took 2 seconds

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=rubber+o...er+O+rings,aps,168&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-apa-p_2_14


----------



## Ciggavelli

So, out of curiosity, I bought a Schiit Jotunheim.  I figured I could use it in the office or something like that.  Well, the Jotunheim can, in fact, drive both the TCs and Susvaras well (and even with some headroom).  Now, is it up to par with more expensive amps?  Well, let's just say you get what you pay for.  I think some posters in here were asking about a cheap amp to drive the TCs or Susvaras.  The Jotenheim might be something they should look into






https://www.schiit.com/products/jotunheim


----------



## silversurfer616

Was considering the Jotunheim a while back but then went with the GSX- mini. Having said that, the 1266 sounds good out of a WA22 and even HDV820. 
One can go for the highly expensive amps but not really necessary when the rest of the system is up to it.


----------



## Bonddam

I owned both formula s and mini and it’s hard to say I liked one better then the other. But the mini had a more warm sound. Last you get more power with the mini. It’s still tough not too recommend the formula s.


----------



## vonBaron

So GS-X mini and Formula S have similar SQ? Becouse price difference is huge.


----------



## yagislav

FLTWS said:


> My new headband just arrived, man is it thick with a plush feeling and significantly wider front to back that the original. I've had no problems with mine but this could be an improvement in comfort. And the possible broken "O" ring is now a non problem. Order a couple sizes off Amazon and work towards that custom fit you always wanted.


How do you remove the o ring? Are those screws which you can just turn and open with a coin or the pick?


----------



## FLTWS

Don't know, looks like a screw in bolt but that might not be the case. That's a question for somebody from Abyss, unless some daring purchaser figured it out already. It came with no instruction sheet and at this price I wouldn't want to tear it apart thinking its a snap and finding out it isn't. The perfectly aligned position of the what looks like a flat head screw grooves makes me think its a snap. But...


----------



## silkytoad

FLTWS said:


> Don't know, looks like a screw in bolt but that might not be the case. That's a question for somebody from Abyss, unless some daring purchaser figured it out already. It came with no instruction sheet and at this price I wouldn't want to tear it apart thinking its a snap and finding out it isn't. The perfectly aligned position of the what looks like a flat head screw grooves makes me think its a snap. But...


I’m guessing (from experience with belts) that you can unscrew the rivets and screw them back together with a regular flat head screwdriver.


----------



## FLTWS

I'll look at it more closely at a later date.


----------



## ken6217

It screws off.


----------



## FLTWS

Thanks.


----------



## Roasty (Sep 4, 2020)

I received the new headband today. The guitar pick and sticker were a nice addition! Thanks, Abyss guys!

The new headband is nice, soft and supple, and a lot thicker than the previous model. Smells great too! Do note that after mounting the headband, the pad gets taut and loses its convex/puffy shape. 

Here are some pics for comparison.


----------



## Adrian2215

Bonddam said:


> I owned both formula s and mini and it’s hard to say I liked one better then the other. But the mini had a more warm sound. Last you get more power with the mini. It’s still tough not too recommend the formula s.



So you say that the formula s is a nice match thats why its worth to own these but the gsx mini is almost the same in sq ?



vonBaron said:


> So GS-X mini and Formula S have similar SQ? Becouse price difference is huge.



Thats what im thinking, is it worth to go straight for the Formula S or is the gsx mini almost as good as the formula s (for half the price) ?

I do unterstand that on that level its about taste and there is no "better" thats why i asked if someone owned both because i want to know why the person got the other one. 

As far as im understanding this both are great for the TC.

Im looking for a excuse to buy the formula S but i didnt find anything that would suggest thats the formula S is in any way better then the gsx except that  it was build with the 1266 in mind. (on the other hand as far as i know almost every person at abyss ownes the gsx mini for their diana or 1266)


----------



## jokostyle

Adrian2215 said:


> Im looking for a excuse to buy the formula S but i didnt find anything that would suggest thats the formula S is in any way better then the gsx except that  it was build with the 1266 in mind. (on the other hand as far as i know almost every person at abyss ownes the gsx mini for their diana or 1266)



If you want to buy it, take this
http://xiaudio.net/?p=1859  ( eventually google trad...)
in consideration. If it is really a flagship headphone amp, you'll see more Formula S on the second hand market, after the release date official announcement.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

silversurfer616 said:


> Was considering the Jotunheim a while back but then went with the GSX- mini. Having said that, the 1266 sounds good out of a WA22 and even HDV820.
> One can go for the highly expensive amps but not really necessary when the rest of the system is up to it.



Agreed. For example, my Focal Arche powers the ab-1266tc without any problems. In fact, I was surprised how good the combo is.


----------



## koven

I think the new headband is a significant comfort improvement, definitely exceeded my expectations. Would highly recommend getting it.


----------



## Slim1970

koven said:


> I think the new headband is a significant comfort improvement, definitely exceeded my expectations. Would highly recommend getting it.


Agreed, the new headband adds a lot of comfort that is not there with the old headband. Watching the video on how to properly setup the Abyss Phi's also helps with fit issues. The two together allows me to just pickup my TC's like normal headphones and just enjoy listening to music instead of fiddling around with the fit. The new headband is a great improvement over the old one.


----------



## tholt

Still miss that awesome 80s heavy metal logo... If they had a t shirt of that I'd soooo buy it. I hope they don't get rid of it altogether!


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Slim1970 said:


> Agreed, the new headband adds a lot of comfort that is not there with the old headband. Watching the video on how to properly setup the Abyss Phi's also helps with fit issues. The two together allows me to just pickup my TC's like normal headphones and just enjoy listening to music instead of fiddling around with the fit. The new headband is a great improvement over the old one.




I totally agree. It also lifts up the headphone a bit, which is the better position for me. And it looks much better too (including the logo)


----------



## tholt

...


----------



## tholt

Hoegaardener70 said:


> And it looks much better too (including the logo)


Nah..


----------



## Hoegaardener70

tholt said:


> ...



Haha, funny how these opinions sometimes differ... hope you find a good place to display your old headband ... for the logo .


----------



## tholt

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Haha, funny how these opinions sometimes differ... hope you find a good place to display your old headband ... for the logo .


I'm displaying it proudly on my head!


----------



## vonBaron

Abyss founders do like listen to metal?


----------



## Slim1970

vonBaron said:


> Abyss founders do like listen to metal?


I'm finding the TC's to be outstanding with all metal genres. The speed and attack of the TC's fully renders guitars, vocals and instruments in life like detail. Imaging and soundstage are also outstanding!


----------



## vonBaron

I don't know TC but my Phi destroys all my other headphones


----------



## Slim1970

vonBaron said:


> I don't know TC but my Phi destroys all my other headphones


The experience should be similar with metal. The Phi TC's are more resolving and the midrange is better than the Phi CC's.


----------



## simorag (Sep 5, 2020)

koven said:


> I think the new headband is a significant comfort improvement, definitely exceeded my expectations. Would highly recommend getting it.





Hoegaardener70 said:


> I totally agree. It also lifts up the headphone a bit, which is the better position for me. And it looks much better too (including the logo)



Very glad to hear about this, as my O-ring just snapped 

I have already placed an order for the new headband, and, although I had no comfort issues before, an improvement in that respect and in the sitting height of the earpads (they were slightly too low also for my skull) will make it easier to swallow the 249Euro outlay.

Now, while preparing for the long wait (the Abyss.eu website stated the shipping is planned for September 30th), I am using a very ugly temporary fix , which is working well enough to making me able to enjoy musical and recording masterworks as this:






By the way, my pads gluing fell apart a couple of month ago as well, being obviously poorly glued from the beginning (the replacement set looks more properly glued, fingers crossed). It seems that some design and/or manufacturing / quality control issues need to be addressed by Abyss, and I respect the fact they have acknowledged this and listened to customer feedback about the fit and comfort by improving the headband.


----------



## attmci (Sep 7, 2020)

simorag said:


> Very glad to hear about this, as my O-ring just snapped
> 
> I have already placed an order for the new headband, and, although I had no comfort issues before, an improvement in that respect and in the sitting height of the earpads (they were slightly too low also for my skull) will make it easier to swallow the 249Euro outlay.
> 
> ...


250 Euro? Maybe you should buy one of these hi-tech headband instead:

https://www.amazon.com/Crazy-Headbands/s?k=Crazy+Headbands












































































































or this mod:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/page-396


----------



## Mikey99

simorag said:


> Very glad to hear about this, as my O-ring just snapped
> 
> I have already placed an order for the new headband, and, although I had no comfort issues before, an improvement in that respect and in the sitting height of the earpads (they were slightly too low also for my skull) will make it easier to swallow the 249Euro outlay.
> 
> ...


I had the pad glue problem as well. I think the trick is to avoid grabbing the pad itself while pulling it on and off, and instead to grab the supporting ring to which the pad is glued.  The magnets are strong and as a result there can be a strong pull between the pad and support ring.


----------



## Mikey99

I tried a set with the new pads. The pressure on the top of my head is more evenly distributed. The headphone also sites slightly higher on my head.  I will get a the new pad once they are available at the shop.


----------



## spacelion2077

Hey guys. Recently I got a can of Abyss recent mode 1266 TC. It doesn't sound very good on THX 789. The mids and trebles come off pretty weak and the bass sounds sort of muffled, doesn't slam as much as I expected to be. Is this the amp's fault? I'm connecting it to Schiit Bifrost and THX 789


----------



## JLoud

I'm running my TC's off a WA33 so totally different amp, but this doesn't sound like a TC should. How is the fit? Should just be touching around the ears, not sealed. However, if there is too much space between pads and ear, the bass will get boomy. Lose detail and sound muffled.


----------



## makan

spacelion2077 said:


> Hey guys. Recently I got a can of Abyss recent mode 1266 TC. It doesn't sound very good on THX 789. The mids and trebles come off pretty weak and the bass sounds sort of muffled, doesn't slam as much as I expected to be. Is this the amp's fault? I'm connecting it to Schiit Bifrost and THX 789


I bet it is the fit...perhaps the pads are too far or too close from the ears


----------



## spacelion2077

I got the version with dual xlr cable with a single xlr converter. I listened to it first time today. It just doesn't strike me as very detailed when it comes to the sound. My other headphones are HD800s. Final D8000 Pro and Emprean, they all run smoothly on THX 789 amp.  The fit is tight, I'm suppose to leave some space between pads and ear?


----------



## vonBaron

It's fit or THX 789 is just too weak for 1266.


----------



## spacelion2077

It's probably the amp. Just loosen the fit, it still sounds like a weak headphone with a strong but muffled bass.


----------



## MatW

I also used the 789 initially because I could not afford both the TC and an expensive amp at the same time. I thought the THX did a pretty good job, considering its modest price tag.

There are two good videos on the Abyss youtube channel on how to fit the TC. I also posted the links to those a few pages back.


----------



## paradoxper (Sep 9, 2020)

spacelion2077 said:


> Hey guys. Recently I got a can of Abyss recent mode 1266 TC. It doesn't sound very good on THX 789. The mids and trebles come off pretty weak and the bass sounds sort of muffled, doesn't slam as much as I expected to be. Is this the amp's fault? I'm connecting it to Schiit Bifrost and THX 789


Make sure the pads aren't coupled too tightly to your head. I actually think a better base-line is to start your right pad seam at around 3 o'clock and then work up to 2,1 etc.

As well, as MatW pointed out, check out the Abyss Youtube channel on fitment. It's rather crucial to understanding the characteristic changes.


----------



## spacelion2077

Thanks. I didn't know the pads are not suppose to hug your ears tightly. I was assuming it was going to be tight fit with ears centered in the cups. THX definitely doesn't do a good job powering it. I tried on Monprice DAC/Amp too, it also sounds thin and muffled.


----------



## Thenewguy007

spacelion2077 said:


> Hey guys. Recently I got a can of Abyss recent mode 1266 TC. It doesn't sound very good on THX 789. The mids and trebles come off pretty weak and the bass sounds sort of muffled, doesn't slam as much as I expected to be. Is this the amp's fault? I'm connecting it to Schiit Bifrost and THX 789



You can buy one of those cheap class D amps that provide a lot of watts from Amazon to test out. If it's not because of power constraints, then you can return the amp.


----------



## honeyjjack

I also had same experiences with my og ab1267 when i first moved to deskfi from portable gear. Connected to my dap, bass was thin and weak, mids muffled and highs rolled off. After i gave it more power it became a different monster. Like thr posts above i bet fine tuning the fit and a new amp will fix everything


----------



## vonBaron

BTW it's there any DAP to drive 1266 good? KANN CUBE?


----------



## Roasty

spacelion2077 said:


> Hey guys. Recently I got a can of Abyss recent mode 1266 TC. It doesn't sound very good on THX 789. The mids and trebles come off pretty weak and the bass sounds sort of muffled, doesn't slam as much as I expected to be. Is this the amp's fault? I'm connecting it to Schiit Bifrost and THX 789



Congrats on the new headphones. This sounds almost certainly like a fit issue. As others have said, watch the fit video and it should help a lot. I have my pad seams at 2 and 10oclock, sometimes 3 and 9 depending on if I want more bass. Spread out the frame as much as you can, place on your head, and then slowly adjust frame inwards until pads rest just lightly on your skin. Once that's done, adjust the frame toe in/out to your preference. 

The thx789... I had it once. It had the power but man I just found it so boring for some reason. Lifeless. Not sure why it's recommended so often but I guess for the price it is an ok deal.


----------



## MatW

vonBaron said:


> BTW it's there any DAP to drive 1266 good? KANN CUBE?


The abyss is not a mobile headphone imo. I owned the cube before I bought the 1266, so I never had the chance to try it. Not a DAP, but someone in this thread mentioned an ifi micro black label for mobile use.


----------



## vonBaron

I don't want them go outdoor but only on bed, i think about WOO WA8 too.

After adjuesments i like my CC pads more that OG.


----------



## MatW

That looks interesting. In terms of footprint a TT2 will probably fit on a bedside table. A bit more pricey though..


----------



## InstantSilence

MatW said:


> That looks interesting. In terms of footprint a TT2 will probably fit on a bedside table. A bit more pricey though..


What are your thoughts on tt2 and abyss pairing?


----------



## spacelion2077

Roasty said:


> Congrats on the new headphones. This sounds almost certainly like a fit issue. As others have said, watch the fit video and it should help a lot. I have my pad seams at 2 and 10oclock, sometimes 3 and 9 depending on if I want more bass. Spread out the frame as much as you can, place on your head, and then slowly adjust frame inwards until pads rest just lightly on your skin. Once that's done, adjust the frame toe in/out to your preference.
> 
> The thx789... I had it once. It had the power but man I just found it so boring for some reason. Lifeless. Not sure why it's recommended so often but I guess for the price it is an ok deal.



Thanks for the advice.I wasn't aware that you can adjust the pads to change the sound. I'm going to try to play around with it to see if it changes anything. THX is pretty decent. It tamed the highs of my HD800s when I used it on a Schiit Jotunheim.


----------



## Ciggavelli

InstantSilence said:


> What are your thoughts on tt2 and abyss pairing?


You didn’t ask me, but I first drove the TCs out of the TT2 I had at the time. I thought everything sounded good, but I felt the bass was lacking, at least compared to what others were saying. I moved to a WA33 and everything sounded better. The bass was amazing, much more quantity and quality compared to the TT2. So, I came to the conclusion that the TT2 is too underpowered for the TCs


----------



## silkytoad

I mailed ABYSS to ask them about the TT2 as well, here is their reply:

_Thanks for the email!

The Hugo TT2 will work ok with the 1266, but ultimately owners tend to seek a separate amplifier suited for the TC to add a bit more fullness and bottom end heft._


----------



## spacelion2077

I guess the bottom line is: THX 789 is not the end game when it comes to driving Abyss 1266 TC


----------



## vonBaron

I think 300$ AMP is not best choice for ultra hi-end headphones like 1266.


----------



## Roasty

This is a pretty good option..


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> BTW it's there any DAP to drive 1266 good? KANN CUBE?



don’t confuse playing loud with driving properly. Any source will produce music out of the 1266, but that doesn’t mean the headphone will reach its potential being under driven.


----------



## Slim1970

ken6217 said:


> don’t confuse playing loud with driving properly. Any source will produce music out of the 1266, but that doesn’t mean the headphone will reach its potential being under driven.


This can be applied to a lot of headphones. Synergy is very important when it comes to system matching.


----------



## Ragnar-BY

Ciggavelli said:


> I first drove the TCs out of the TT2 I had at the time. I thought everything sounded good, but I felt the bass was lacking


Did you use SE or balanced output? Balanced is 4x times more powerful at 50 Ohm.


----------



## ken6217

ken6217 said:


> don’t confuse playing loud with driving properly. Any source will produce music out of the 1266, but that doesn’t mean the headphone will reach its potential being under driven.



Actually for all headphones and speakers.


----------



## honeyjjack

vonBaron said:


> BTW it's there any DAP to drive 1266 good? KANN CUBE?


I dont think the cube would have enough power. It should have enough gain tho. I think you would have to use battery powered amps. Dmpz1 was good but only went up to moderate volumes.





vonBaron said:


> BTW it's there any DAP to drive 1266 good? KANN CUBE?


Cube should play enough volume but wont have the power to fully drive them. You would need battery powered amps to run them portably.


----------



## MatW (Sep 10, 2020)

silkytoad said:


> I mailed ABYSS to ask them about the TT2 as well, here is their reply:
> 
> _Thanks for the email!
> 
> The Hugo TT2 will work ok with the 1266, but ultimately owners tend to seek a separate amplifier suited for the TC to add a bit more fullness and bottom end heft._



Why don't you send that email to Chord and see what they say?   Seriously, they will tell you that the TT2 can drive the TC, no problem.

In my opinion (pls remember: my opinion) the TC can be driven quite well by the TT2 on its own. Not saying that a separate amp won't make it better (I have the Formula S), but I could quite easily have settled for the TT2 by itself, and the small footprint can be a big plus for some people. Same now with the Dave, I can really enjoy the TC straight out of the Dave SE output. I think we are talking about comparatively small levels of improvement at this already very high level of sound quality.


----------



## midicun

MatW said:


> Why don't you send that email to Chord and see what they say?   Seriously, they will tell you that the TT2 can drive the TC, no problem.
> 
> In my opinion (pls remember: my opinion) the TC can be driven quite well by the TT2 on its own. Not saying that a separate amp won't make it better (I have the Formula S), but I could quite easily have settled for the TT2 by itself, and the small footprint can be a big plus for some people. Same now with the Dave, I can really enjoy the TC straight out of the Dave SE output. I think we are talking about comparatively small levels of improvement at this already very high level of sound quality.


+1 on DAVE + TC on SE Output. 
>> Same now with the Dave, I can really enjoy the TC straight out of the Dave SE output. I think we are talking about comparatively small levels of improvement at this already very high level of sound quality.


----------



## canfabulous

Useful to know - thank you.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Ragnar-BY said:


> Did you use SE or balanced output? Balanced is 4x times more powerful at 50 Ohm.


I did use SE.  Somebody else recommended using the balanced outputs on the back of the TT2, so maybe it helps with the TCs


----------



## silkytoad

MatW said:


> Why don't you send that email to Chord and see what they say?   Seriously, they will tell you that the TT2 can drive the TC, no problem.
> 
> In my opinion (pls remember: my opinion) the TC can be driven quite well by the TT2 on its own. Not saying that a separate amp won't make it better (I have the Formula S), but I could quite easily have settled for the TT2 by itself, and the small footprint can be a big plus for some people. Same now with the Dave, I can really enjoy the TC straight out of the Dave SE output. I think we are talking about comparatively small levels of improvement at this already very high level of sound quality.



My new 1266 is in my office and won’t be able to use it for the next week or two so can’t speak from experience. I agree that it makes no sense that the TT2 wouldn’t be able to properly drive it. I’ve read so much about what high end tube amps such as the WA33 or Riviera bring to the 1266 though, so I guess I’ll have to wait and listen!


----------



## canfabulous

I was specifically recommended the TT2 over the Dave for driving the 1266, so I imagine it's perfectly fine.  I'm looking into a loaner TT2 so I can actually try it!

Don't know what you think about that advice?


----------



## JLoud

I can’t speak to the TT2, but the WA33 drives the TC with great results. Abyss posted a video on their YouTube channel about it. They also have several videos reviewing different amps and how they pair with Abyss headphones.


----------



## InstantSilence

JLoud said:


> I can’t speak to the TT2, but the WA33 drives the TC with great results. Abyss posted a video on their YouTube channel about it. They also have several videos reviewing different amps and how they pair with Abyss headphones.


I love their channel actually!


----------



## Adrian2215 (Sep 10, 2020)

spacelion2077 said:


> Hey guys. Recently I got a can of Abyss recent mode 1266 TC. It doesn't sound very good on THX 789. The mids and trebles come off pretty weak and the bass sounds sort of muffled, doesn't slam as much as I expected to be. Is this the amp's fault? I'm connecting it to Schiit Bifrost and THX 789




Did you turn your gain up to 3 ?  I found the treble a bit to strong and peacky and im coming from a beyerdynamic dt 1990 with a thx 789. 
I never heard my tc with a proper high end amp so maybe i dont know what im missing.


----------



## yagislav

Anybody in Vancouver who has a WA33? I've been wanting to listen to this amp with the 1266TC but nowhere to demo locally.


----------



## ubs28 (Sep 11, 2020)

MatW said:


> Why don't you send that email to Chord and see what they say?   Seriously, they will tell you that the TT2 can drive the TC, no problem.
> 
> In my opinion (pls remember: my opinion) the TC can be driven quite well by the TT2 on its own. Not saying that a separate amp won't make it better (I have the Formula S), but I could quite easily have settled for the TT2 by itself, and the small footprint can be a big plus for some people. Same now with the Dave, I can really enjoy the TC straight out of the Dave SE output. I think we are talking about comparatively small levels of improvement at this already very high level of sound quality.



How big / small is the difference between Chord Dave + Abyss and Chord Dave + external amp + Abyss?

If the difference is quite substantial, then I will wait and see if Abyss will release a new version that work straight out of Chord Dave without much problems.

Normally I would do these tests myself but I don't know anyone who has an Abyss


----------



## spacelion2077

What's the difference between a single xlr cable and dual balanced cable? Does dual balanced cable require more power output from your amp?


----------



## spacelion2077

Adrian2215 said:


> Did you turn your gain up to 3 ?  I found the treble a bit to strong and peacky and im coming from a beyerdynamic dt 1990 with a thx 789.
> I never heard my tc with a proper high end amp so maybe i dont know what im missing.



I tried, it just doesn't sound good on THX amps. I tried it on a Monolith THX Dac/Amp too. I might have to upgrade my amp to bring out its potential


----------



## silkytoad

spacelion2077 said:


> What's the difference between a single xlr cable and dual balanced cable? Does dual balanced cable require more power output from your amp?


Same thing


----------



## MatW

ubs28 said:


> How big / small is the difference between Chord Dave + Abyss and Chord Dave + external amp + Abyss?
> 
> If the difference is quite substantial, then I will wait and see if Abyss will release a new version that work straight out of Chord Dave without much problems.
> 
> Normally I would do these tests myself but I don't know anyone who has an Abyss


That could be a long wait...  Or you buy the Diana Phi, which is built around the same driver. Personally, if I already had a Dave I would buy the Abyss. You will already enjoy it with the Dave alone. And then you can always upgrade later, if you choose.


----------



## spacelion2077

silkytoad said:


> Same thing


 why would Abyss sell two different things for the same function? I heard dual balanced xlr is twice as powerful but it needs more power output but I could be wrong


----------



## silkytoad

spacelion2077 said:


> why would Abyss sell two different things for the same function? I heard dual balanced xlr is twice as powerful but it needs more power output but I could be wrong


I’m assuming you are talking about dual 3 pin XLR vs single 4 pin XLR correct and strictly for headphones? Some amps output more power on their balanced out vs unbalanced out but that is mostly due to design rather than anything else. There is a lot of debate on wether balanced > to unbalanced (for example Chord along with other manufacturers seem to favor unbalanced). As far as balanced dual XLR vs 4 pin XLR, to my knowledge it is the same thing unless the amp treats those outputs differently (is there a case?). That being said, I personally do prefer the design of XLR connection vs standard plug because it feels more robust + eliminates any risk of shorting the circuit if unplugging during playback (most headphone amps should have protection).


----------



## silkytoad

spacelion2077 said:


> why would Abyss sell two different things for the same function? I heard dual balanced xlr is twice as powerful but it needs more power output but I could be wrong


And to my knowledge only 2 of the 3 pins in the dual 3 pin XLR setup are used, so for our purposes it doesn’t really matter if you send them through dual cables or through a single 4 pin cable.


----------



## silkytoad

spacelion2077 said:


> why would Abyss sell two different things for the same function? I heard dual balanced xlr is twice as powerful but it needs more power output but I could be wrong


As far as ABYSS superconductor cables, I guess some people like having the two cables meet at the 4 pin connector and some people like having two completely separate cables for their headphones, more of a preference I suppose.


----------



## koven

I thought no Y-split cable was strange at first but now I kind of prefer the ergonomics of it.


----------



## Slim1970

koven said:


> I thought no Y-split cable was strange at first but now I kind of prefer the ergonomics of it.


Yes, there is a certain freedom of movement to having the cable configured in this manner.


----------



## nogi replicant

ubs28 said:


> How big / small is the difference between Chord Dave + Abyss and Chord Dave + external amp + Abyss?
> 
> If the difference is quite substantial, then I will wait and see if Abyss will release a new version that work straight out of Chord Dave without much problems.
> 
> Normally I would do these tests myself but I don't know anyone who has an Abyss



Hi,

I picked up the Abyss Phi when I had the Dave, I did not have an external amp. At the time I was using the HE1000, which replaced my Utopia previous to that. I was running the Abyss Phi with CC pads direct off the Dave. After a week I put the HE1000 up for sale as I much preferred the Abyss over them. The Abyss felt like the first time I had actually experienced ledgit bass in a headphone, I thought I had with my previous cans but the Abyss was something different. Also more visceral, transparent, and with a bigger soundstage. So to answer your question, yes the Abyss Phi sounds great direct from DAVE. The TC is a % harder to drive so can't make a comment re the TC direct from DAVE.

After a little while I bought the Superconductor cable (a big upgrade in my opinion), using direct from DAVE. A more organic less metallic sound.

A little while after that I picked up a Formula S. The Formula S is a worthwhile improvement to DAVE direct with a noticably bigger stage, more ease, and less fatiguing (not that DAVE direct is particularly fatiguing. 

Just yesterday I added the Powerman to the Formula S (I wish I did that 6 months ago!!!).

I also picked up the TC yesterday.

As a side note I no longer have the DAVE and am using a Rockna Wavedream.


----------



## nogi replicant

I just picked up a new TC yesterday. Compared to my Abyss Phi with CC pads there is more detail but out of the box (I have probably 5 hours on it) the soundstage is noticeably smaller. Anyone else notice this?


----------



## yagislav

I have a formula S / powerman for sale in the classifieds if anybody is interested


----------



## spacelion2077

What's the minimal power output for Abyss 1266 TC? Is 3 watts a channel enough to drive it?


----------



## simorag

ubs28 said:


> How big / small is the difference between Chord Dave + Abyss and Chord Dave + external amp + Abyss?
> 
> If the difference is quite substantial, then I will wait and see if Abyss will release a new version that work straight out of Chord Dave without much problems.
> 
> Normally I would do these tests myself but I don't know anyone who has an Abyss



I wrote a detailed post about this (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/post-14394739) and it still applies also to the TC and to other amps I have tried in the meantime.
In short, the Abyss TC do benefit from a top quality amp, but even direct out of the DAVE would still be my favorite headphone experience (except perhaps for a Viva Audio Solista or Riviera AIC-10 driving a Susvara), so choosing not to try the TC _just _because the DAVE hp out does not provide the ultimate experience out of it is not what I would recommend.
That said, on the financial side getting an AB-1266 with a DAVE is a commitment to financial threat, because sooner or later you would want to add an amp, and if you are like me you will discover that only a high end amp actually provides a tangible benefit on the TC without compromising the DAVE hp output strengths



nogi replicant said:


> I just picked up a new TC yesterday. Compared to my Abyss Phi with CC pads there is more detail but out of the box (I have probably 5 hours on it) the soundstage is noticeably smaller. Anyone else notice this?



I noticed this, together with some nasal midrange and a dryish bass with the TC out of the box when I upgraded from a Phi + CC pads, but after about 20-30h the TC was on par or outperforming the Phi + CC pads all across the board.



spacelion2077 said:


> What's the minimal power output for Abyss 1266 TC? Is 3 watts a channel enough to drive it?



For reference, the XI Audio Formula S, an amp that was originally developed for the AB-1266, and on which JPS labs collaborated directly, has about 2.5W on 47ohm, so 3W should be fine. I owned the Formula S and I rarely went above 12 o'clock on the volume pot when I had it (same on my current Riviera AIC-10, which has more or less the same output power).
I tried much more powerful amps, like speaker amps up to 220W on 8ohm, and I could not notice a clear sonic added value due to sheer power w.r.t. a 2.5-3W amp, rather differences in character due to each amp overall design principles and implementation.


----------



## JLoud

More complicated than that. I have a Schiit Magnius with 3.6 watts into 50 ohms. The TC gets loud enough, but sounds thin. I had a Woo WA6se that put out 1.5 watts and it sounded really good with plenty of volume. The amp needs current reserves is my feeling.


----------



## Roasty (Sep 17, 2020)

My frame screw is a little loose. And the tautness of the new headband rubber rings keeps pulling the frame closer together. I got fed up of constantly having to spread out the frame, so made this out of a piece of wooden chopsticks. Wrapped some matte black tape for a stealthier look. Works a treat!


----------



## FLTWS (Sep 17, 2020)

Roasty said:


> My frame screw is a little loose. And the tautness of the new headband rubber rings keeps pulling the frame closer together. I got fed up of constantly having to spread out the frame, so made this out of a piece of wooden chopsticks. Wrapped some matte black tape for a stealthier look. Works a treat!



Neat solution. Stiffer bands on the new headband? And it requires a proprietary (I believe) torques wrench to tighten. I had this happen early (purchased 12/17) and I caused it on my Phi as I was closing it up after every listening session to preserve the "O" rings with the old style head band. Sent it in for a fix (7/18), was advised by Joe to keep the phone in the "Ready to listen" position, no issue since. Perhaps getting a selection of different sizes on Amazon and finding the right tension for one's setting might be a solution with the new headband.

Diameter of that dowel?


----------



## Roasty

FLTWS said:


> Neat solution. Stiffer bands on the new headband? And it requires a proprietary (I believe) torques wrench to tighten. I had this happen early (purchased 12/17) and I caused it on my Phi as I was closing it up after every listening session to preserve the "O" rings with the old style head band. Sent it in for a fix (7/18), was advised by Joe to keep the phone in the "Ready to listen" position, no issue since. Perhaps getting a selection of different sizes on Amazon and finding the right tension for one's setting might be a solution with the new headband.
> 
> Diameter of that dowel?



Oh learnt a new word today. Dowel. Lol! 
Don't know the size.. I guesstimated slightly larger than needed, cut it, then filed it down to size. Still allows for front and back angulation of the frame.


----------



## FLTWS

With any luck I may never need to worry about it again. But my arms are fully extended for listening and slightly angled. If I ever do need to put the new headband on (already have one for backup) the dowel may be a good way to let the bands ease in to a more relaxed state.


----------



## vonBaron

Any cable do you guys recomend to replace stock one or don't bother and let it be?


----------



## Ciggavelli (Sep 17, 2020)

vonBaron said:


> Any cable do you guys recomend to replace stock one or don't bother and let it be?


I am 100% glad I bought the superconductor cables. They really do sound better than the stock ones.  No regrets at all, even considering the high cost


----------



## vonBaron

But it cost some sick money...


----------



## Ciggavelli

vonBaron said:


> But it cost some sick money...


Hey, you asked...hahaha


----------



## vonBaron

Yeah...
I will look for second hand superconductor.


----------



## Litlgi74

Anyone here experience the Smyth Realiser with 1266?


----------



## MatW

vonBaron said:


> Any cable do you guys recomend to replace stock one or don't bother and let it be?


Don't kill me but I don't hear large differences between cables. I buy cables primarily for looks and ergonomics. I bought the same forza hpc cables for all my headphones. The stock abyss cable is 1000 euros I believe, so should be much better, but I find them too long and inflexible, so I'm using the forza cable.


----------



## vonBaron

It's ok 
Good for you and your wallet!
Stock 1266 cable outprice all my aftermarket cables


----------



## tholt

MatW said:


> Don't kill me but I don't hear large differences between cables. I buy cables primarily for looks and ergonomics. I bought the same forza hpc cables for all my headphones. The stock abyss cable is 1000 euros I believe, so should be much better, but I find them too long and inflexible, so I'm using the forza cable.


+1 on the Forza HPCs. I noticed a dramatic difference for the better. My friend did too. No loss of resolution, but more body. Relatively inexpensive silver/copper hybrid and much nicer feeling/looking and easier to deal with vs stock.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> My frame screw is a little loose. And the tautness of the new headband rubber rings keeps pulling the frame closer together. I got fed up of constantly having to spread out the frame, so made this out of a piece of wooden chopsticks. Wrapped some matte black tape for a stealthier look. Works a treat!



Damn, how big is your head?


----------



## Roasty

ken6217 said:


> Damn, how big is your head?



Not that big (I hope..). I just prefer the pads resting on the side of my head as lightly as possible. I get a better bass response. Also I get the vocals sounding a bit echoey and muffled if the pads are too snug against the skin.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> Not that big (I hope..). I just prefer the pads resting on the side of my head as lightly as possible. I get a better bass response. Also I get the vocals sounding a bit echoey and muffled if the pads are too snug against the skin.



It really is amazing how the slightest adjustment of these headphones, or just moving them back or forward on your ears once it is adjusted how the sound changes.


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> Not that big (I hope..). I just prefer the pads resting on the side of my head as lightly as possible. I get a better bass response. Also I get the vocals sounding a bit echoey and muffled if the pads are too snug against the skin.


Damn, you remind me to  spread out the frame. No wonder my skull shrink recently.


----------



## ken6217

The father you spread them out, the higher they sit on your ears. I get better bass if they sit lower (for me).


----------



## Ciggavelli

I’m a big proponent of having the earpads touch behind my ears and then I angle the cups so there is an opening in the front. The wider the angle the more bass you get.  If you go too far, you get distortion. But it’s very easy to change the bass with the rotation outwards. I can normally get a good fit pretty easily, and can quickly change the bass level depending on the genre


----------



## vonBaron

And that's what I love about 1266 most, you can easily change sound to your preferences, good luck try it with other headphones.


----------



## Ragnar-BY

silkytoad said:


> I mailed ABYSS to ask them about the TT2 as well, here is their reply:
> 
> _Thanks for the email!
> 
> The Hugo TT2 will work ok with the 1266, but ultimately owners tend to seek a separate amplifier suited for the TC to add a bit more fullness and bottom end heft._


Interesting thing... Formula S, which is recommended and sold by ABYSS Headphones gives you *2,1* W at 46 Ohm, balanced. Chord Hugo TT2 SE - 1,5 W at 50Ohm, balanced - *6 *W at 50 Ohm. Actually, Chord DAC is three time more powerful than recommended amplifier.


----------



## Slim1970

Ragnar-BY said:


> Interesting thing... Formula S, which is recommended and sold by ABYSS Headphones gives you *2,1* W at 46 Ohm, balanced. Chord Hugo TT2 SE - 1,5 W at 50Ohm, balanced - *6 *W at 50 Ohm. Actually, Chord DAC is three time more powerful than recommended amplifier.


Was listening to my TC’s out of the TT2’s XLR outputs and I was surprised just how good they sounded. In fact, it’s was so good that I’m rethinking my external amplification needs all together.


----------



## vonBaron

Any headphone tube AMP do you guys recomend for 1266 4000$ max? New or used it dosent matter.


----------



## InstantSilence

Slim1970 said:


> Was listening to my TC’s out of the TT2’s XLR outputs and I was surprised just how good they sounded. In fact, it’s was so good that I’m rethinking my external amplification needs all together.


That's music to my ears


----------



## Slim1970

InstantSilence said:


> That's music to my ears


Although, the TT2 can easily handle the TC’s, there are some good budget friendly amp options out there. You necessarily have to spend top dollar for great sound. The Flux Labs FA-10 is one such amp.


----------



## JLoud

vonBaron said:


> Any headphone tube AMP do you guys recomend for 1266 4000$ max? New or used it dosent matter.


I liked the Woo WA5le. Used would definitely be in your budget. I just sold mine with EML tubes for $2500. Moved up to a WA33.


----------



## ken6217

I’m not gonna get into which tube amp sounds better than another, but definitely buy used so that you can get more for your dollar.


----------



## silversurfer616

Have the WA22 and sounds very good if you use both balanced XLR inputs and headphone out. As much as I love the 1266 with the GSX-mini, I prefer the synergy with the WA22. There’s just more body and holographic soundstage.


----------



## attmci

silversurfer616 said:


> Have the WA22 and sounds very good if you use both balanced XLR inputs and headphone out. As much as I love the 1266 with the GSX-mini, I prefer the synergy with the WA22. There’s just more body and holographic soundstage.


I bet you need summit-fi tubes which cost much more than the WA22 itself.


----------



## tholt

silversurfer616 said:


> Have the WA22 and sounds very good if you use both balanced XLR inputs and headphone out. As much as I love the 1266 with the GSX-mini, I prefer the synergy with the WA22. There’s just more body and holographic soundstage.


It's great you can make that amp work for you. I had one for a time (v1, not v2) and also went balanced in, balanced out. I never could make it sound very good to my taste. Always dug its build quality, though. It's a solid, compact chunk of gear.


----------



## Roasty

I'm using the gen2 wa22 and have spent maybe 5 to 6k on tubes. If I had known I'd go down this route, I probably would have just gotten a wa33 by now.


----------



## tholt

Roasty said:


> I'm using the gen2 wa22 and have spent maybe 5 to 6k on tubes


 Dang.... on a $2500 amp? I guess you have a nice selection of tubes at least!


Roasty said:


> If I had known I'd go down this route, I probably would have just gotten a wa33 by now.


You could have. You must really love the WA22 to be so faithful.


----------



## Roasty

tholt said:


> Dang.... on a $2500 amp? I guess you have a nice selection of tubes at least!
> 
> You could have. You must really love the WA22 to be so faithful.



Well, a part of me thinks its an awesome amp, and the other part thinks I'm a doofus for spending so much on it.. 

My first two tube amps (little dot mk2 and schiit valhalla) were no fight. Of the three tube amps I want now, from what I've read, only the wa33 can drive the Susvara and TC well. The other two being the dna stellaris and EC studio (no longer available).


----------



## Ciggavelli (Sep 20, 2020)

Roasty said:


> I'm using the gen2 wa22 and have spent maybe 5 to 6k on tubes. If I had known I'd go down this route, I probably would have just gotten a wa33 by now.








Countdown to you buying a WA33...hahaha.  You’ve mentioned wanting to buy it in several threads. I’ll say this, you won’t be disappointed


----------



## Roasty

Ciggavelli said:


> Countdown to you buying a WA33...hahaha.  You’ve mentioned wanting to buy it in several threads. I’ll say this, you won’t be disappointed



Hahaha thanks for the countdown..! 
It'll make the day I finally get it all the more sweeter.


----------



## vonBaron (Sep 20, 2020)

WA22 has enough power to drive 1266? This 1.5W/32ohm don't looks so good.


silversurfer616 said:


> Have the WA22 and sounds very good if you use both balanced XLR inputs and headphone out. As much as I love the 1266 with the GSX-mini, I prefer the synergy with the WA22. There’s just more body and holographic soundstage.


----------



## silversurfer616

vonBaron said:


> WA22 has enough power to drive 1266? This 1.5W/32ohm don't looks so good.


But it sounds good.


----------



## attmci (Sep 20, 2020)

silversurfer616 said:


> But it sounds good.


True with nice tubes. Tube rolling is fun, but it is an expensive addiction. You also need a very nice DAC.


----------



## paradoxper

Roasty said:


> Well, a part of me thinks its an awesome amp, and the other part thinks I'm a doofus for spending so much on it..
> 
> My first two tube amps (little dot mk2 and schiit valhalla) were no fight. Of the three tube amps I want now, from what I've read, only the wa33 can drive the Susvara and TC well. The other two being the dna stellaris and EC studio (no longer available).


Do as I, order the ultra-linear.


----------



## number1sixerfan

I've been pretty careful with the TC's. I don't hang them on headphone stands and only use them about an hour at a time about 3-4x a week. Just picked them up for the evening and the headband ring snapped before I even put it on my head smh.. I'll search the thread, but a question. If they're still under warranty do you still have to pay for the replacement band? I'm hoping not given how common the issue has been. 

Either way, I ordered a few things from amazon and will jimmy rig it until I can get my hands on the new headband.. but it looks like they aren't even shipping until mid-next month.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

number1sixerfan said:


> I've been pretty careful with the TC's. I don't hang them on headphone stands and only use them about an hour at a time about 3-4x a week. Just picked them up for the evening and the headband ring snapped before I even put it on my head smh.. I'll search the thread, but a question. If they're still under warranty do you still have to pay for the replacement band? I'm hoping not given how common the issue has been.
> 
> Either way, I ordered a few things from amazon and will jimmy rig it until I can get my hands on the new headband.. but it looks like they aren't even shipping until mid-next month.



My friend encountered exactly same problem. Never hang the headphone, but got his O-Ring snapped too before a year. Abyss kind enough to ship the replacement for free, so thumbs up for their service.


----------



## number1sixerfan

TheMiddleSky said:


> My friend encountered exactly same problem. Never hang the headphone, but got his O-Ring snapped too before a year. Abyss kind enough to ship the replacement for free, so thumbs up for their service.



I appreciate it! I'll reach out to them and hopefully can get one sent out sometime soon. Thanks.


----------



## L0rdGwyn (Sep 25, 2020)

Never mind


----------



## honeyjjack

If anyone doesn't use their stock cables, I'm in the market for one.


----------



## JonathanKlein

Just pulled the trigger on a system completely centered around the Abyss 1266 Phi CC.  I'll report back with initial impressions once everything is received.  Details in signature.


----------



## Homrsimson

I have an abyss TC coming and quick question: do owners recommend a way to store them? I saw on one forum recommend a pelican case, not sure what size (amazon link?). I’m assuming the lite edition don’t come with a daily case, and I don’t want to hang them due to the band concerns. Thanks!


----------



## Roasty

Homrsimson said:


> I have an abyss TC coming and quick question: do owners recommend a way to store them? I saw on one forum recommend a pelican case, not sure what size (amazon link?). I’m assuming the lite edition don’t come with a daily case, and I don’t want to hang them due to the band concerns. Thanks!



I use the Rooms abyss stand, and then put a Stax headphones cover over it to keep dust away.


----------



## nrbatista

Homrsimson said:


> I have an abyss TC coming and quick question: do owners recommend a way to store them? I saw on one forum recommend a pelican case, not sure what size (amazon link?). I’m assuming the lite edition don’t come with a daily case, and I don’t want to hang them due to the band concerns. Thanks!



I also use the specially designed Rooms headphone stand from Headphone Auditions Amsterdam. You can find it here.


----------



## nrbatista

Roasty said:


> I use the Rooms abyss stand, and then put a Stax headphones cover over it to keep dust away.



Hi, can you share the link for the Stax headphones cover?


----------



## Roasty

nrbatista said:


> Hi, can you share the link for the Stax headphones cover?



Oh I just searched on ebay. They shipped from Japan. I bought a few for my headphones. They can fit over the abyss, even with frame fully apart.


----------



## canfabulous

I put them in the bag that ships with the 1266 and store them safely at the back of a shelf.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Hi there!

I’m considering getting either the 1266 TC or the 1266 Phi. The latter I’d get used so the resulting price difference for me would be close to 3000 euros - could anyone that has heard both be kind enough to outline some of the key differences between the two?

Id be driving them with an ifi micro BL, and a Headamp GSX Mini hooked up to a Chord Hugo 2


----------



## Mikey99

Roasty said:


> Oh I just searched on ebay. They shipped from Japan. I bought a few for my headphones. They can fit over the abyss, even with frame fully apart.


The included fabric sac is also excellent as a cover.


----------



## ken6217

You don’t have to hang them by the band. You can hang them by the frame below it.

I think disconnecting the cables and putting it in a case, and then connect the cables and listening to them and so on would be a PITA.


----------



## Trance_Gott

New Abyss TC owner here.
New headband is a big improvement for me comfort is much better now vs my Phi CC.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Cleaner and more details vs Phi CC. 
Mids a little more forward and not too recessed. Still warming up...


----------



## mvvRAZ

Trance_Gott said:


> New Abyss TC owner here.
> New headband is a big improvement for me comfort is much better now vs my Phi CC.


Receiving my 1266 Phi tomorrow (non-TC), super excited for that


----------



## Homrsimson

ken6217 said:


> You don’t have to hang them by the band. You can hang them by the frame below it.
> 
> I think disconnecting the cables and putting it in a case, and then connect the cables and listening to them and so on would be a PITA.



yeah I hear that, my problem is I have a 3 year old running around who loves to knock over headphones. Best to keep in a case for me!


----------



## ken6217

Homrsimson said:


> yeah I hear that, my problem is I have a 3 year old running around who loves to knock over headphones. Best to keep in a case for me!



Oh. Gotcha. I guess hanging the headphones and putting the 3 year old in the case wouldn't be a good idea.


----------



## canfabulous (Sep 28, 2020)

Homrsimson said:


> yeah I hear that, my problem is I have a 3 year old running around who loves to knock over headphones. Best to keep in a case for me!



Plus there's the whole ceremony of events to enjoy (getting out the cans and cables, etc) when you want (and finally get a chance) to sit down and have a listen!  If your house is anything like mine, then you'll only be able to do that at about 9pm, if you can stay awake long enough!


----------



## Homrsimson

canfabulous said:


> Plus there's the whole ceremony of events to enjoy when you want (and finally get a chance) to sit down and have a listen!  If your house is anything like mine, then you'll only be able to do that at about 9pm, if you can stay awake long enough!



Only a father can understand this, exactly right. It really starts at 9pm, and the exhaustion factor definitely eliminates those 1-2am sessions I used to have. At best it’s from about 9-11pm.


----------



## vonBaron

Trance_Gott said:


> Cleaner and more details vs Phi CC.
> Mids a little more forward and not too recessed. Still warming up...


Did you listen Susvara?


----------



## Trance_Gott

vonBaron said:


> Did you listen Susvara?


No I never has Susvara or listen to it.


----------



## vonBaron

You should try them!
Enjoy your 1266 TC!


----------



## Trance_Gott

vonBaron said:


> You should try them!
> Enjoy your 1266 TC!


Thanks!


----------



## vonBaron

I think AB 1266 + Susvara will be my endgame.


----------



## Trance_Gott (Sep 28, 2020)

My endgame is SR007 MK2 SZ2xxx bass port mod and KGSSHv Carbon. 
Everything perfect from bass to highs.
I think Abyss TC is on par with my Rosson RAD0. Rosson RAD0 better mids and fuller sound slams as hard as TC. TC best soundstage and details on headphone market with great highs and this visceral impact only Abyss has.
This 3 headphones along with the Stellia are endgames for every metal head.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Trance_Gott said:


> My endgame is SR007 Mk2 SZ2xxx bass port mod and KGSShv.
> Everything perfect from bass to highs.
> I think Abyss TC is on par with my Rosson RAD0. Rosson RAD0 better mids and fuller sound slams as hard as TC. TC best soundstage and details on headphone market with great highs.
> This 3 headphones along with the Stellia are endgames for every metal head.


Damn, interesting comparison. My Diana V2 feels like a pretty big upgrade on my Rosson Rad-0, I’ll most likely be selling it very soon


----------



## vonBaron

I sell my RAD-0 with no regreds.


----------



## Trance_Gott

vonBaron said:


> I sell my RAD-0 with no regreds.


Rad0 is a warm headphone think you don't like the warm headphones.
But the tonality Alex has created with his baby is awesome and I think it is more real and neutral then other headphones. But that's only my opinion.


----------



## vonBaron

My rig is quite warm, so yeah... 
With something like chord Hugo 2 they will be even better.


----------



## Homrsimson

Hi all,

Apologies for the long post below, but hoping to get some advice on an amp upgrade geared toward the 1266 TC but still versatile enough to run my other headphones. As a bit of background, I've been in this hobby for a couple years, and have slowly and steadily climbed the chain while training my ears. I have a TC on the way from Joe and can't wait, but it also means I am looking to upgrade my amp (ideally with a budget around 2k, but I'm willing to go up some for something special).

Currently I have a Utopia, HD800, and a whole gaggle of ZMFs for which I'm a huge fan (Verite Open, Auteur, Eikon, Atticus). I've built my current system around the ZMFs primarily which I prefer with tubes, my amp is a mjolnir 2 with good tubes (nos, telefunken). The amp is the cheapest part of my chain, hence my desire to upgrade. I know the TC are very hard to drive. The rest of my chain is better but not extremely TOTL: I have a pure audio labs lotus 5 DAC that is fed via curious usb to an aurender n100h music server. I have no plans to change the server which I love, I might at some point upgrade the DAC but I'm pretty happy with it (seems to punch way above its price). But unless someone tells me otherwise, I'm assuming the mjolnir 2 won't cut it with the TC. I should also mention that I use xlr throughout and I have power cords and conditioners that are probably too good for my core components (audioquest tornado for amp and dac that feed into a niagara); but hopefully those will achieve greater gains with a better amp. I also use a lot of upgraded headphone cables like norne, danacable, etc. 

As you can probably assume from the above, I tend to prefer a more musical setup. That said, my priority here is to get an amp that synergizes best with the TC, and as a second goal I'd like to get something that also sounds good with my ZMFs  (and the utopia, although I'm guessing I'll cull the herd after the TC arrives, since I'm hoping it's the end of the journey for a while; and the utopia and VO may go on the chopping block). So if it's more clinical but awesome with the TC I'm open to considering. Also open to different kinds of amps (solid state, tube, etc.).

The two easy picks from limited research seem to be the Formula S and the GS-X mini. Curious if folks have thoughts about either of these, can someone elaborate on their sound signatures (musical vs. clinical) and how they've found they are with the TC and other headphones like those I've mentioned? For the Formula S, is the powerman PSU needed? I'm not limiting myself to just these two though, do folks here have recommendations in my price range? I have plenty of time to pick this up but appreciate any insights.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## tholt

Homrsimson said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Apologies for the long post below, but hoping to get some advice on an amp upgrade geared toward the 1266 TC but still versatile enough to run my other headphones. As a bit of background, I've been in this hobby for a couple years, and have slowly and steadily climbed the chain while training my ears. I have a TC on the way from Joe and can't wait, but it also means I am looking to upgrade my amp (ideally with a budget around 2k, but I'm willing to go up some for something special).
> 
> ...



IME the Mjolnir 2 did not synergize well. Just having a lot of watts doesn't guarantee a good match. Since you have so many ZMFs and you like tubes, I suggest something like an ampsandsound Mogwai or Mogwai SE. The former is around your budget, the latter is over but is what I use and I think it sounds fantastic with the 1266. You probably know that ampsandsound makes the only amps offered by ZMF.


----------



## Roasty

Homrsimson said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Apologies for the long post below, but hoping to get some advice on an amp upgrade geared toward the 1266 TC but still versatile enough to run my other headphones. As a bit of background, I've been in this hobby for a couple years, and have slowly and steadily climbed the chain while training my ears. I have a TC on the way from Joe and can't wait, but it also means I am looking to upgrade my amp (ideally with a budget around 2k, but I'm willing to go up some for something special).
> 
> ...



Thin the herd! They won't get much play time after the TC arrives. Then use the extra funds to get a nice amp. 

there is a powerman/formula combo on the headfi classifieds. There was a bakoon as well but recently sold. I have, but don't recommend, the hpa4. Gsx mini + TC is an OK pairing.


----------



## tholt

Roasty said:


> Thin the herd! They won't get much play time after the TC arrives. Then use the extra funds to get a nice amp.


Lol. This is probably true


----------



## Homrsimson

tholt said:


> Lol. This is probably true



yeah I expect that to happen, I actually think I may be inclined to keep some of the cheaper ZMF’s oddly (I’ve bought and sold some of them a couple times, they have unique qualities). But yeah for pure technical performance I’m not sure if there’s a reason to keep the verite open and utopia if I like the TC . I didn’t really intend to buy a TC, but a good opportunity came up and I’ve been wanting to try it forever.

thanks for the mogwai recommendation, my only hesitation is I have a young kid in the house and seems like more parts that she could hurt herself with if I accidentally keep the amp on when she’s around. But then again that wasn’t an issue with the mjolnir 2, and I like the idea of getting something that works with it all.


----------



## tholt

Homrsimson said:


> I didn’t really intend to buy a TC, but a good opportunity came up and I’ve been wanting to try it forever.


Congrats!


----------



## vonBaron

How it's highs in TC? Because in Phi i think it's the weakest thing.


----------



## Homrsimson

Roasty said:


> Thin the herd! They won't get much play time after the TC arrives. Then use the extra funds to get a nice amp.
> 
> there is a powerman/formula combo on the headfi classifieds. There was a bakoon as well but recently sold. I have, but don't recommend, the hpa4. Gsx mini + TC is an OK pairing.



doesn’t sound like a strong vote of confidence for the gsx, sounds like I should look elsewhere. Have you heard the formula s with them?


----------



## Roasty

Homrsimson said:


> doesn’t sound like a strong vote of confidence for the gsx, sounds like I should look elsewhere. Have you heard the formula s with them?



I have the mini and it is alright with the TC. Not mind blowing.. I prefer the TC with tubes. Hpa4 is underwhelming. I've not tried the formula S but many here like it (though I believe quite a few have also sold it and eventually gone with the WA33).


----------



## tholt

vonBaron said:


> How it's highs in TC? Because in Phi i think it's the weakest thing.


What's specifically 'weak' about it?


----------



## vonBaron

I think they are too hard and harsh sometimes, in Susvara the are more pleasant yet more detalited.


----------



## Roasty

vonBaron said:


> I think they are too hard and harsh sometimes, in Susvara the are more pleasant yet more detalited.



I find the Susvara highs less appealing than TC Phi. With EQ on the Sus, much more bearable. I like the Utopia highs the most.


----------



## Kevxl (Sep 29, 2020)

Homrsimson said:


> doesn’t sound like a strong vote of confidence for the gsx, sounds like I should look elsewhere. Have you heard the formula s with them?


I don’t think he meant to vote against the GSX mini, it just you get what you paid for. It’s a good amp for the budget, even the Abyss guys said so themselves on their YouTube channel. And, I agree that HPA4 is underwhelming for the TC since I can barely hear the difference between HPA4 and my TT2’s onboard amp.

Personally, I had the Mini and HPA4 but sold them both after acquired Formula S combo. I think this combo is a really good budget option, especially if you consider the second hand market. After all, it was made to specifically drive the TC. If you want to up your amp game from here, then you will probably have to spend $10K+ on amp and TOTL tubes to achieve any meaningful gain.


----------



## JLoud

I have a WA33 with EML tubes and the TC sounds fantastic on it. The guys from Abyss did a YouTube video on the combo. They couldn't say enough good about it.


----------



## 35FLE

Slim1970 said:


> Was listening to my TC’s out of the TT2’s XLR outputs and I was surprised just how good they sounded. In fact, it’s was so good that I’m rethinking my external amplification needs all together.



How do you adjust the volume on the TT2 if listening out of the XLR outputs?


----------



## Kevxl (Sep 29, 2020)

35FLE said:


> How do you adjust the volume on the TT2 if listening out of the XLR outputs?


Amp mode will allows you to adjust the volume.

DAC mode is fixed 2.5v RMS.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I love the highs on the TCs. The treble sparkle is amazing on cymbals


----------



## koven

JLoud said:


> I have a WA33 with EML tubes and the TC sounds fantastic on it. The guys from Abyss did a YouTube video on the combo. They couldn't say enough good about it.



Indeed WA33 w/ TC is truly incredible. My Susvara is getting a bit dusty.


----------



## vonBaron

I don't know TC...


----------



## vonBaron

Too bad that price on WA33 is "little" high.


----------



## spacelion2077

Is there anyway to fix this? one of the links connecting the headpiece to the frame just snapped.


----------



## Mikey99 (Sep 29, 2020)

Homrsimson said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Apologies for the long post below, but hoping to get some advice on an amp upgrade geared toward the 1266 TC but still versatile enough to run my other headphones. As a bit of background, I've been in this hobby for a couple years, and have slowly and steadily climbed the chain while training my ears. I have a TC on the way from Joe and can't wait, but it also means I am looking to upgrade my amp (ideally with a budget around 2k, but I'm willing to go up some for something special).
> 
> ...


I enjoyed the Formual S plus Powerman for a couple of years, they work very well with the AB1266 TC. The Powerman improves the sound (better bass definition, etc.), but not essential. Another amp in this price range I have listened to quite a bit on a wide variety of headphones is the Audiovalve Solaris. It is excellent with the TC, also with the ZMF VC. It is musical and very versatile, and can even be used with electrostatics. If I had to choose between the two today, I would probably go for the Solaris as I find I prefer the warmth/musicality of tubes.


----------



## Mikey99

spacelion2077 said:


> Is there anyway to fix this? one of the links connecting the headpiece to the frame just snapped.


I have seen a variety of fixes in this thread. If under warranty they should replace it for free. Otherwise you would need to order a new headband unless you have one of the newer ones. The new headbands look like the rubber bands can be replaced without having to replace the entire headband.


----------



## spacelion2077

Mikey99 said:


> I have seen a variety of fixes in this thread. If under warranty they should replace it for free. Otherwise you would need to order a new headband unless you have one of the newer ones. The new headbands look like the rubber bands can be replaced without having to replace the entire headband.



The warranty is over this month. I wonder if there is anyway I can fix this myself without purchasing a new headband. The headband itself is in perfect condition. It's only the link on it that's broken.


----------



## Trance_Gott

vonBaron said:


> I don't know TC...


The TC is a big step from the CC in highs and details.


----------



## vonBaron

So now gather money for Susvara or upgrade 1226 Phi to TC, hmm...


----------



## Mikey99

spacelion2077 said:


> The warranty is over this month. I wonder if there is anyway I can fix this myself without purchasing a new headband. The headband itself is in perfect condition. It's only the link on it that's broken.


There are fixes described in this thread, but I recognise there are over 800 pages and it may be laborious to search. Perhaps one of the people who have posted solutions can point to them.


----------



## Roasty

spacelion2077 said:


> The warranty is over this month. I wonder if there is anyway I can fix this myself without purchasing a new headband. The headband itself is in perfect condition. It's only the link on it that's broken.



Here is my fix. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-15478215

A couple of rubber bands to replicate the broken o-rings, and a zip tie to the leather portion.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Currently hearing this new album of Haken with the 1266 TC. Amazing!


----------



## vonBaron

I very like this album, all of my headphones play it well.


----------



## Trance_Gott

vonBaron said:


> I very like this album, all of my headphones play it well.


Or this one mind blowing. The drums are kicking so hard and so detail!


----------



## 35FLE

Kevxl said:


> Amp mode will allows you to adjust the volume.
> 
> DAC mode is fixed 2.5v RMS.



Does that mean you can’t use the Dac while on Amp mode?


----------



## Homrsimson

Kevxl said:


> I don’t think he meant to vote against the GSX mini, it just you get what you paid for. It’s a good amp for the budget, even the Abyss guys said so themselves on their YouTube channel. And, I agree that HPA4 is underwhelming for the TC since I can barely hear the difference between HPA4 and my TT2’s onboard amp.
> 
> Personally, I had the Mini and HPA4 but sold them both after acquired Formula S combo. I think this combo is a really good budget option, especially if you consider the second hand market. After all, it was made to specifically drive the TC. If you want to up your amp game from here, then you will probably have to spend $10K+ on amp and TOTL tubes to achieve any meaningful gain.



Thanks this is super helpful. yeah I’m never going to invest 10kin a tube amp so the perspective is helpful.

On the formula S, does it make a big difference to have the powerman power supply, or does it sound the same without it? I would be feeding this amp, either alone or through the powerman, to an Audioquest tornado power cord that goes into an Audioquest niagara power conditioner. Also not sure if you have other cans in the lineup, but have you found the formula S to work well with them?


----------



## Homrsimson

Mikey99 said:


> I enjoyed the Formual S plus Powerman for a couple of years, they work very well with the AB1266 TC. The Powerman improves the sound (better bass definition, etc.), but not essential. Another amp in this price range I have listened to quite a bit on a wide variety of headphones is the Audiovalve Solaris. It is excellent with the TC, also with the ZMF VC. It is musical and very versatile, and can even be used with electrostatics. If I had to choose between the two today, I would probably go for the Solaris as I find I prefer the warmth/musicality of tubes.



thanks I really like the look of the Solaris. I saw one was listed for 3k about a month ago, I would have been inclined to grab that. I would probably be willing to stretch for that unit.


----------



## Mikey99

Kevxl said:


> I don’t think he meant to vote against the GSX mini, it just you get what you paid for. It’s a good amp for the budget, even the Abyss guys said so themselves on their YouTube channel. And, I agree that HPA4 is underwhelming for the TC since I can barely hear the difference between HPA4 and my TT2’s onboard amp.
> 
> Personally, I had the Mini and HPA4 but sold them both after acquired Formula S combo. I think this combo is a really good budget option, especially if you consider the second hand market. After all, it was made to specifically drive the TC. If you want to up your amp game from here, then you will probably have to spend $10K+ on amp and TOTL tubes to achieve any meaningful gain.


I agree the HPA4 is underwhelming for the TC, it even struggles at times. Not a good match. The Formula S works well, especially with the Powerman which adds more punch. A tube option in the same price range is the Audiovalve Solaris - it drives the TC well, and is a bit more musical than the Formula S.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Mikey99 said:


> I agree the HPA4 is underwhelming for the TC, it even struggles at times. Not a good match. The Formula S works well, especially with the Powerman which adds more punch. A tube option in the same price range is the Audiovalve Solaris - it drives the TC well, and is a bit more musical than the Formula S.



I prefer the HPA4 to pretty much all SS amps. I like the WA33 with the TC quite a bit, but find that tubes take away from the overall level of transparency and clarity and muddy things up a bit. Orthos prefer higher current amplifiers and tube amps tend to lag behind. Again, the WA33 is a stellar amp, but my preferences to the higher level of clarity of the HPA4 have been consistent for over a year.


----------



## ajaipuriyar

Looking for some impressions on the synergy of Viva Egoista 845 with TC.

Maybe some comparison with WA33. 

Plz share. Thnx.


----------



## Bonddam

Homrsimson said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Apologies for the long post below, but hoping to get some advice on an amp upgrade geared toward the 1266 TC but still versatile enough to run my other headphones. As a bit of background, I've been in this hobby for a couple years, and have slowly and steadily climbed the chain while training my ears. I have a TC on the way from Joe and can't wait, but it also means I am looking to upgrade my amp (ideally with a budget around 2k, but I'm willing to go up some for something special).
> 
> ...


Going with Mogwai is good to go with as the 1266 is really good with tubes. The all a rounder is the mini which I use to own before stepping up to the Woo WA33. Mini has a warm tone to it.


----------



## koven

Homrsimson said:


> Thanks this is super helpful. yeah I’m never going to invest 10kin a tube amp so the perspective is helpful.



If WA33 is a stretch then consider the Cayin HA300. Personally I think that's the best tube option under 4K.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Sep 29, 2020)

New addition to the family...





No time to play yet... But based on reviews... I fully expect to be wowed.


----------



## spacelion2077

Litlgi74 said:


> New addition to the family...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How do you connect the smyth realizer to your setup?


----------



## Homrsimson

koven said:


> If WA33 is a stretch then consider the Cayin HA300. Personally I think that's the best tube option under 4K.



Thanks, I’ll also keep the HA300 on my radar along with the Solaris, mogwai, and formula S


----------



## Litlgi74 (Sep 29, 2020)

spacelion2077 said:


> How do you connect the smyth realizer to your setup?


For now... I'm using the built-in DAC, connecting the Realiser directly to my speaker amp via RCA jacks.

The A16 has a ton of outputs... Most will bypass it's internal DAC.


----------



## MacedonianHero

koven said:


> If WA33 is a stretch then consider the Cayin HA300. Personally I think that's the best tube option under 4K.



Personally I would recommend SS amps for orthos (especially power hungry orthos) as they can typically deliver higher current...which works better for them.


----------



## Litlgi74

If anyone is interested in more info on the A16 Realiser... There is a webinar with the inventor of device in a few hours.

https://event.webinarjam.com/register/1/23xygbm


----------



## JLoud

Again I personally feel the WA33 is one of the finest amps for the TC. Seems the guys at Abyss agree.(YouTube video) But the WA5le was also very nice as well. That is under $4k. The HeadAmp GSXmk2 at $3k is another good SS option.


----------



## Homrsimson

Looks like my TC may arrive sooner than expected . If anyone has something they recommend and willing to part with it for a deal, definitely PM me. I crying shame it would be to have the TC arrive with no amp to run it :/.


----------



## vonBaron

I still say that GS-X mini is a great amp, maybe it's even underprice but shhh


----------



## Homrsimson

vonBaron said:


> I still say that GS-X mini is a great amp, maybe it's even underprice but shhh



I guess I could always get a gs-x for now and keep an eye out for others, I’m less hesitant to buy that for now if I can get a decent deal (given it’s not quite expensive). I don’t see any on the markets though :/.


----------



## vonBaron

Dude you are in USA and you can't find good deal on GS-X mini? Don't hesite, you won't regret!


----------



## MacedonianHero

JLoud said:


> Again I personally feel the WA33 is one of the finest amps for the TC. Seems the guys at Abyss agree.(YouTube video) But the WA5le was also very nice as well. That is under $4k. The HeadAmp GSXmk2 at $3k is another good SS option.



I think it's the finest tube amp for sure for the Phi TC that I've heard.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I did something crazy:






It arrived a little while ago.  I tested with the TCs, and oh my....

I need to do some more listening, but right off the bat it's better than the WA33 Standard and the Riviera AIC-10.  The soundstage is even larger and more out of your head, the bass is amazing, everything is so smooth.  I love it


----------



## JonathanKlein

@Ciggavelli Congratulations!!!!  That is a work of art!  Did you go with the version that has JPS internal wiring?


----------



## Ciggavelli

JonathanKlein said:


> @Ciggavelli Congratulations!!!!  That is a work of art!  Did you go with the version that has JPS internal wiring?


I did


----------



## JonathanKlein

Ciggavelli said:


> I did



I just noticed the Aluminoy badge .  Congrats again.  Please report back after you've given it a good listen.  I'm also looking forward to what you think with your Susvaras....and most importantly, your tube rolling journey!


----------



## InstantSilence

Is jps aluminum cables good?


----------



## yagislav

Ive got a Formula S / Powerman for sale if anybody is interested. I REALLY want the WA33.


----------



## JonathanKlein

InstantSilence said:


> Is jps aluminum cables good?



Are you asking about their Aluminata line of cables or the internal wiring option for the WA33?


----------



## JLoud

yagislav said:


> Ive got a Formula S / Powerman for sale if anybody is interested. I REALLY want the WA33.


I can vouch for the WA33. It really is everything you've heard. I love mine. Made my TC and LCD-4 sing like never before.


----------



## spacelion2077

Has anyone experienced this? One of my Abyss TC's cups volume is abnormally low when audio plays, it takes awhile for the cup's volume to get back normal. And the other cup's volumne the whole time. The headphone is connected to Monolith Dac/Amp


----------



## JLoud

Man not the "driver waking up" thing again. Not that you aren't having a real problem. This has just come up before. Sounds like a defective driver. Have you tried it on another amp? Switched cable ends to see if it follows cable end? (Right for left)


----------



## spacelion2077

JLoud said:


> Man not the "driver waking up" thing again. Not that you aren't having a real problem. This has just come up before. Sounds like a defective driver. Have you tried it on another amp? Switched cable ends to see if it follows cable end? (Right for left)



It usually don't have a problem on my speaker amp. But with the headphone amp. Sometimes it will take awhile for the left cup to sound normal. It's not every time. Only occurs after I stopped using the headphone for awhile


----------



## Roasty

spacelion2077 said:


> It usually don't have a problem on my speaker amp. But with the headphone amp. Sometimes it will take awhile for the left cup to sound normal. It's not every time. Only occurs after I stopped using the headphone for awhile



Send it back to Abyss. They will repair it for u. Similar issue has happened to some of us. Supposedly from a faulty connection.


----------



## vonBaron

I see TC is has more failure than Phi or OG.


----------



## spacelion2077

I can't speak for PHI or OG, but for a 6k headphones, the design and some parts of the headphone could be improved upon. I just had the o ring snapped and this new found issue in one week, and the headphone is only one year old.


----------



## spacelion2077

Roasty said:


> Send it back to Abyss. They will repair it for u. Similar issue has happened to some of us. Supposedly from a faulty connection.



Will they still fix it after warranty expires? It's just over a year but I don't mind paying them money to get it to work properly


----------



## Roasty

spacelion2077 said:


> Will they still fix it after warranty expires? It's just over a year but I don't mind paying them money to get it to work properly



Mine was under warranty. But it took two months to get it back. 

I'm sure they will fix it for you, just whether they will charge you for it. 

I guess you didn't apply for the extended warranty online too? Which extends it up to 3 years?


----------



## spacelion2077

Roasty said:


> Mine was under warranty. But it took two months to get it back.
> 
> I'm sure they will fix it for you, just whether they will charge you for it.
> 
> I guess you didn't apply for the extended warranty online too? Which extends it up to 3 years?



I actually bought it here not long ago. So it was not a new headphone, the original owner claimed he bought it last year. I'm not sure how the transfer of ownership works. All I have is the original seller's name.


----------



## Roasty

spacelion2077 said:


> I actually bought it here not long ago. So it was not a new headphone, the original owner claimed he bought it last year. I'm not sure how the transfer of ownership works. All I have is the original seller's name.



Hmm I guess next logical step is to email them, tell them the problem, and at the same time find out if a) the warranty was extended by the original owner, and b) if the warranty is transferable.


----------



## koven

spacelion2077 said:


> I actually bought it here not long ago. So it was not a new headphone, the original owner claimed he bought it last year. I'm not sure how the transfer of ownership works. All I have is the original seller's name.



Abyss allows a one time warranty transfer, but the original owner would have to initiate the request w/ invoice. There is more info on their warranty page.


----------



## spacelion2077

Roasty said:


> Hmm I guess next logical step is to email them, tell them the problem, and at the same time find out if a) the warranty was extended by the original owner, and b) if the warranty is transferable.



Do you know if there is a number I can call? I tried to email them but didn't get a response back.


----------



## spacelion2077

koven said:


> Abyss allows a one time warranty transfer, but the original owner would have to initiate the request w/ invoice. There is more info on their warranty page.



I tried to contact the original seller here weeks ago but the seller never responded, I wonder if the sales receipt I got on paypal here will do the work.


----------



## tholt




----------



## Roasty

spacelion2077 said:


> I tried to contact the original seller here weeks ago but the seller never responded, I wonder if the sales receipt I got on paypal here will do the work.



Good luck man. Sorry, I don't know if they have a number to call. Thankfully I managed to go thru my local dealer for the fix.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

@spacelion2077 You're talking to the wrong people. The original owner and people on this thread are not who can help you with this. We are who you should be in touch with...
https://abyss-headphones.com/pages/contact-abyss


----------



## attmci

koven said:


> Abyss allows a one time warranty transfer, but the original owner would have to initiate the request w/ invoice. There is more info on their warranty page.


*ABYSS® Headphone Warranty Information
Abyss Headphone Warranty*
*Warranty Information- Headphones*
To apply for an extended warranty on your brand new ABYSS Headphones, CLICK HERE.
Abyss Headphones are designed and built in the USA to a very high standard of quality. Abyss Headphones warrants your new headphone set to be free from defects in materials and workmanship for a period of* one (1) year* from the date of purchase from an authorized dealer or agent of Abyss Headphones. *This is the Standard Warranty.*

If purchased brand new, never used, current stock from an authorized Abyss Headphone agent, as an original owner you are eligible to apply for a three (3) year Extended Warranty by registering online on the Abyss-Headphones.com Product Registration page. In order to apply, you must register within 90 days of purchase date. It is recommended to apply for your Extended Warranty immediately after purchase. Application subject to approval. Dealer demo's or previously used products are not eligible for the extended warranty.

Proof of your Extended Warranty will be sent via email and be kept on record at Abyss Headphones. You must have the original Proof of Purchase from an authorized dealer or agent and be the person who registered for the extended warranty in order to claim any warranty status past the original one year. As the original Owner you may invoke a ONE TIME transfer of such upon sale of your Abyss Headphone to another by contacting Abyss headphones directly.

When purchasing a previously owned (used) Abyss Headphone product, the standard one year warranty follows the headphone set. The original purchase receipt from the original first owner is required as proof of purchase for any warranty claim. The original Owner must contact Abyss Headphones at the time of sale and provide us with the name and email address of the new owner so we may contact them regarding transfer of the extended warranty, if any.

An Abyss Headphone dealer or agent has no obligation to any warranty of a product they did not sell to you. Contact Abyss Headphones directly with any warranty issues if your purchase was not made with an authorized dealer.

The warranty covers only the cost to repair the headphone or included accessory. The warranty does not cover shipping, insurance, fees, duties, taxes, or loss or damage of any kind. Leather components such as ear pads are considered wear items and may from time to time require replacement. Any finished surface may scratch or mar do to abrasion. Wear and tear on the leathers or finish is not covered under any warranty. Use of faulty or improper ancillary equipment, abuse or physical damage, is not covered under any warranty. Tampering with or any modification to the headphone or included accessory by an unauthorized person resulting in the need of parts or service is not covered under any warranty.


----------



## llamaluv

Aww, I'm a little sad about the lukewarm opinions of the HPA4 on here. I quite like it with the TC. The treble is lovely, as is the bass. Relaxed, yet clean and detailed. Very wide soundstage. Though not as deep as the best solid state amps.

Having said that, after several months with it now, I'm beginning to think of the HPA4 as a "nice to have" but also as a "non-essential". 

🤷‍♂️


----------



## HiFiGuy528

spacelion2077 said:


> Do you know if there is a number I can call? I tried to email them but didn't get a response back.



check the Spam folder. Recently i’m seeing good emails ended up in Spam folder, even replies which is silly that it would think a reply would be Spam.


----------



## spacelion2077

HiFiGuy528 said:


> check the Spam folder. Recently i’m seeing good emails ended up in Spam folder, even replies which is silly that it would think a reply would be Spam.



I finally got a response from Abyss, since the headphone I bought is a used one and the original owner didn't register for the extended warranty at the time of purchase. I'm no longer able to get any more warranty on the headphone. 

Anyone knows how much it will cost to have the headphone inspected and repaired without the warranty? I hope it's not too much


----------



## koven

llamaluv said:


> Aww, I'm a little sad about the lukewarm opinions of the HPA4 on here. I quite like it with the TC. The treble is lovely, as is the bass. Relaxed, yet clean and detailed. Very wide soundstage. Though not as deep as the best solid state amps.
> 
> Having said that, after several months with it now, I'm beginning to think of the HPA4 as a "nice to have" but also as a "non-essential".
> 
> 🤷‍♂️



Indeed it's good but I wouldn't miss it. I'm not using mine much anymore with WA33 around but still holding onto it for now. 

Have you ever posted impressions of HA300 and TC anywhere? I would like to read that since I'm not aware of anyone else that uses this combo. And especially since you used to have the WA33.


----------



## tholt

spacelion2077 said:


> I finally got a response from Abyss, since the headphone I bought is a used one and the original owner didn't register for the extended warranty at the time of purchase. I'm no longer able to get any more warranty on the headphone.
> 
> Anyone knows how much it will cost to have the headphone inspected and repaired without the warranty? I hope it's not too much


Isn't it just the headband that broke? You'll just have to buy another headband.


----------



## Homrsimson

Does anyone use a pelican case to store their TC? If so can you send a link to the model you bought, whether on amazon or elsewhere? Thanks.


----------



## spacelion2077

tholt said:


> Isn't it just the headband that broke? You'll just have to buy another headband.



Not just that, one of the earcups has issue producing sound when it's plugged into my Monolith Dac/Amp, it will eventfully go back to normal after playing awhile or increase/decrease volume. I don't mind buying the headband, I'm afraid that Abyss will charge a huge amount for the potential repair cost. Not sure if anyone has previous experience with repair without a warranty.


----------



## Kevxl

llamaluv said:


> Aww, I'm a little sad about the lukewarm opinions of the HPA4 on here. I quite like it with the TC. The treble is lovely, as is the bass. Relaxed, yet clean and detailed. Very wide soundstage. Though not as deep as the best solid state


You’re right. HPA4 is a great piece of kit and my previous comment is strictly just for my TC paring. If you tend to listen to more gentle music genres and prefer a relaxed, clean sound, the HPA4 is perfectly adequate to drive the TC and a good preamp for a two channel system.

Personally, like many other people, I enjoyed the bass slam and the weighty sound on TC quite a bit. My experience was the HPA4 just won’t do the “woofer on your ear” part justice.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Kevxl said:


> You’re right. HPA4 is a great piece of kit and my previous comment is strictly just for my TC paring. If you tend to listen to more gentle music genres and prefer a relaxed, clean sound, the HPA4 is perfectly adequate to drive the TC and a good preamp for a two channel system.
> 
> Personally, like many other people, I enjoyed the bass slam and the weighty sound on TC quite a bit. My experience was the HPA4 just won’t do the “woofer on your ear” part justice.



It certainly will if your DAC and music indicate that it should. You won't find much (if any) colouration with the HPA4 in this regards....think incredibly transparent.


----------



## Homrsimson

Just got my abyss TC. They're the best headphones I've ever heard, period. Culmination of 2 years in this journey, but they've certainly rendered the utopia moot. The detail retrieval, sounstage, and bass best the verite open. I'll probably sell both of those. What really separates them for me is the detail retrieval combined with the best bass I've heard on the headphone. Totally unfair comparison but the bass rivals the Legend X IEM. The big difference is the TC does everything well, I really can't find a fault. And I love how you can adjust the ear placement to change the dynamics. 

I'll probably keep some of my ZMFs like the auteur and atticus because they're not trying to do what this does, but my first impression is these are my end game. Unless Abyss ups its own game, I don't see it getting much better.


----------



## llamaluv

Kevxl said:


> You’re right. HPA4 is a great piece of kit and my previous comment is strictly just for my TC paring. If you tend to listen to more gentle music genres and prefer a relaxed, clean sound, the HPA4 is perfectly adequate to drive the TC and a good preamp for a two channel system.


Word. I think that's a fair characterization.


----------



## llamaluv (Oct 2, 2020)

koven said:


> Have you ever posted impressions of HA300 and TC anywhere? I would like to read that since I'm not aware of anyone else that uses this combo. And especially since you used to have the WA33.



I posted some early impressions but they're not super-insightful. Disregard whatever I said about "mid-forward". I need to restrain myself from posting impressions prematurely so much, but you know how it is.

 [_Edit_: I just realized I also posted this a little bit later. These opinions do still hold true for me.].

Anyway, the HA-300 does great with the TC. It has a rich, warm, "expressive" presentation. _Moist _is the word that comes to mind. IMO this works great with the TC, which can sound a little dry and unengaging in the mids/upper-mids (<ducks>), depending on things. Staging/imaging/depth is very nice. The images themselves are "meaty". Dynamics are great, bass is great (Though with the Susvara, only if I'm being honest, it could use just a shade more power, just a shade tho).

The WA33 is a different animal -- faster, leaner, more solid-state like in its technicalities. Whereas the HA-300 is... 300B-like.


----------



## Roasty

I recently input some EQ into Roon for use with the Susvara. Today was Abyss rotation day and I forgot to turn the EQ off. Turns out, the EQ settings sound pretty good with the TC too.. Hell of a lot more low end rumble. I'd be content with just the filter settings from mid bass downwards. If u have some free time, try it out and lemme know what u think. 

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/Au...tory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/HIFIMAN Susvara

The opening sequence when the music kicks in for Californian Soil (by London Grammer) is killer.


----------



## yagislav

Roasty said:


> I recently input some EQ into Roon for use with the Susvara. Today was Abyss rotation day and I forgot to turn the EQ off. Turns out, the EQ settings sound pretty good with the TC too.. Hell of a lot more low end rumble. I'd be content with just the filter settings from mid bass downwards. If u have some free time, try it out and lemme know what u think.
> 
> https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/Au...tory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/HIFIMAN Susvara
> 
> The opening sequence when the music kicks in for Californian Soil (by London Grammer) is killer.


Link not found, curious to give it a try


----------



## Roasty (Oct 2, 2020)

yagislav said:


> Link not found, curious to give it a try



https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/HIFIMAN Susvara

Sorry, try this link. U may want to disable some of the filters higher up, but give them a go. I thought they were OK and didn't really take much away from the usual abyss sound up top.


----------



## attmci (Oct 2, 2020)

spacelion2077 said:


> I finally got a response from Abyss, since the headphone I bought is a used one and the original owner didn't register for the extended warranty at the time of purchase. I'm no longer able to get any more warranty on the headphone.
> 
> Anyone knows how much it will cost to have the headphone inspected and repaired without the warranty? I hope it's not too much


Who sold you the headphone? He should/could help you out.

I don't see you have any trade history here. You just joined head-fi in August, and purchased one of the most expensive used headphone here??????


----------



## ken6217

spacelion2077 said:


> I finally got a response from Abyss, since the headphone I bought is a used one and the original owner didn't register for the extended warranty at the time of purchase. I'm no longer able to get any more warranty on the headphone.
> 
> Anyone knows how much it will cost to have the headphone inspected and repaired without the warranty? I hope it's not too much



Why are you asking here? The only one that knows the answer is Abyss.


----------



## spacelion2077

I tried to contact Abyss about the situation, but they didn't give me a straight up answer and take days for them to get back to me. My situation is a bit of tricky. One of the ear cups sound muted when I plugged into my Monolith DAC/Amp, but it has no problem producing balanced sound at all when its plugged into the speaker amp. After I unplugged from the speaker amp and plug back into the headphone amp, the sound is normal without the muzzled effect. Has anyone had this experience before?


----------



## spacelion2077

attmci said:


> Who sold you the headphone? He should/could help you out.
> 
> I don't see you have any trade history here. You just joined head-fi in August, and purchased one of the most expensive used headphone here??????



We DMed each other. Abyss don't accept used headphones for the extended warranty. The original owner didn't know he could register the headphone for 3 years warranty. The initial reason I joined head fi was to purchase a good used Abyss 1266 TC headphone


----------



## Kevxl

spacelion2077 said:


> I tried to contact Abyss about the situation, but they didn't give me a straight up answer and take days for them to get back to me. My situation is a bit of tricky. One of the ear cups sound muted when I plugged into my Monolith DAC/Amp, but it has no problem producing balanced sound at all when its plugged into the speaker amp. After I unplugged from the speaker amp and plug back into the headphone amp, the sound is normal without the muzzled effect. Has anyone had this experience before?


As people said, it sounds like the “driver falling asleep” thing. This is not a Abyss only thing, I know this happen to some Audezes, like the LCD4z, as well.

I suspect that Abyss won’t give you a straight answer is because they probably don’t have one since that requires them to inspect your actual headphone first. Is not that people are not helping here. If Abyss is the only place that can fix the TC, I don’t know how we can help other than telling you to email them. How much they charge and whether you think it’s reasonable for your problem is between you and Abyss now. But hey, if there is one headphone that worth paying money to fix, it probably would be a TC. They offer warranty on their fixing work, too.

I feel you man, it’s really frustrating. There is always this kind of risk when buying used. I got burned many times until I wised up. You got burned and you learned, life goes on. Good luck.


----------



## Roasty

Has anyone here actually had to pay for a driver replacement? If so, what was the cost for that? 

Asking because my 1yr warranty expires this month. It'll be good to know, and mentally prepare for the worst case scenario ie pay for shipping back to USA and then pay for the fix.


----------



## vonBaron

So my Abyss faliure...
Left side plays lot quiter than right...
Soo many money throw into trash...


----------



## vonBaron

UPDATE: I bump volume way over my volume of listeteing and they are now get back to normal...


----------



## Roasty

Sounds like "sleeping driver issue" .

Seems similar to mine, which had one channel with no sound until I bumped up the volume knob. 

But as yours is just "low volume" and not "no music" until volume is bumped up, I dub thee "sleepy driver issue".


----------



## vonBaron

@Roasty So what i can do with that?
Warranty is over.


----------



## Roasty

vonBaron said:


> @Roasty So what i can do with that?
> Warranty is over.



Here you go. Hope you can get it sorted out. Keep us informed! 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-15894809


----------



## ken6217

spacelion2077 said:


> We DMed each other. Abyss don't accept used headphones for the extended warranty. The original owner didn't know he could register the headphone for 3 years warranty. The initial reason I joined head fi was to purchase a good used Abyss 1266 TC headphone



I might have missed your earlier comments. How long have you had them? Did you have the issue when you first received them from the other owner? How did you pay? I’m asking because maybe you can send them back and you have some protection from PayPal or your credit card company.


----------



## attmci (Oct 3, 2020)

vonBaron said:


> So my Abyss faliure...
> Left side plays lot quiter than right...
> Soo many money throw into trash...



Sounds like we have to use the 1266 often to avoid the "sleeping driver" problem.

I hope Abyss can explain what's the root cause of the problem (only the TC PM driver? Does Phi PM also has the same issue?).


----------



## MacedonianHero

attmci said:


> Sounds like we have to use the 1266 often to avoid the "sleeping driver" problem.
> 
> I hope Abyss can explain what's the root cause of the problem (only the TC PM driver? Does Phi PM also has the same issue?).



If his warranty is over, then likely not a TC as they were released just last year and come with a 3 year warranty.


----------



## paradoxper (Oct 3, 2020)

MacedonianHero said:


> If his warranty is over, then likely not a TC as they were released just last year and come with a 3 year warranty.


Ah. Interesting.

@spacelion2077, is this the seller/listing you bought from?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sold-abyss-ab-1266-phi-tc-headphone-deluxe.936934/#post-15821561

EDIT: Crossed with @vonBaron's issue.


----------



## spacelion2077

MacedonianHero said:


> If his warranty is over, then likely not a TC as they were released just last year and come with a 3 year warranty.



It is a TC, it's got Abyss TC engraved on its ear cups. Original owner bought it last June and he wasn't aware that he needs to register his product to get 3 years warranty.


----------



## spacelion2077

paradoxper said:


> Ah. Interesting.
> 
> @spacelion2077, is this the seller/listing you bought from?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sold-abyss-ab-1266-phi-tc-headphone-deluxe.936934/#post-15821561
> ...



Yup, it is an authentic headphone with serial number confirmed by Abyss. It has to be registered within 3 months of purchase time to get the extended warranty but the seller was not aware that during the time of the purchase.


----------



## paradoxper

They do know crap customer service can sink a business, right. 

I find it curious you have to opt-in for the 3-year warranty application. 

Shrugs.


----------



## spacelion2077

paradoxper said:


> They do know crap customer service can sink a business, right.
> 
> I find it curious you have to opt-in for the 3-year warranty application.
> 
> Shrugs.



Hopefully they will send me the return authorization. I don't mind paying out of my own pocket at this point. They told me they were going to send it three days ago, and I never got it. I followed up on it and never got a response back.


----------



## MacedonianHero

spacelion2077 said:


> It is a TC, it's got Abyss TC engraved on its ear cups. Original owner bought it last June and he wasn't aware that he needs to register his product to get 3 years warranty.



My comment was directed to @vonBaron.


----------



## vonBaron

But used TC is way expensive than Phi.
I don't want to spend that amount of money right now.


----------



## Trance_Gott (Oct 3, 2020)

vonBaron said:


> But used TC is way expensive than Phi.
> I don't want to spend that amount of money right now.


Hope JPS will help you without costs on your side.
With RAD0 you have a headphone with lifetime guarantee!


----------



## vonBaron

They don't need too now becouse everything go back to normal but it was strange...
Maybe something gets inside of driver like hair, idk...
But still Rosson is US company so for us in EU are pretty bad.


----------



## vonBaron

Abyss at least have shops in EU.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Yes for both companies you have to send to US for repair. But it is a guarantee case so when it comes back you don't pay custom fees. Or what do you think is a problem for someone who live in EU?


----------



## vonBaron

Are you sure that you don't pay fees?


----------



## mvvRAZ

Depends on how the company declares the headphone. If they ship it back to you at full retail value you’ll get destroyed by the import duty. 

64 audio for example only send it back at the cost of the repair, so if I send in my A18S to get reshelled, I pay only VAT on the 400$ that their service cost


----------



## vonBaron

In my country are 23% vat tax from gear outside UE so yeah...
Imagine now paying this form 5500$.


----------



## Trance_Gott

You can ask if the distributor in your country or in EU will handle the shipment forth and back. That is how I handled my LCD4 repair. I paid only fees for the new pads installed the driver replacement was without costs.
Okay when companies declared it as full retail price it can be a problem. But who makes something only crap companies dislike customers outside US or what? Then you have to proof it is yours and back from repair. Make a photo of it with you, the headphone and the serial before you send it.


----------



## Kevxl

mvvRAZ said:


> Depends on how the company declares the headphone. If they ship it back to you at full retail value you’ll get destroyed by the import duty.
> 
> 64 audio for example only send it back at the cost of the repair, so if I send in my A18S to get reshelled, I pay only VAT on the 400$ that their service cost


Quick question: Does the insurance tie to the declared value on the custom form? Like, can you only pay VAT on the $400 repair cost but still ship with a $5000 insurance on the headphone?


----------



## mvvRAZ

Kevxl said:


> Quick question: Does the insurance tie to the declared value on the custom form? Like, can you only pay VAT on the $400 repair cost but still ship with a $5000 insurance on the headphone?


Cant do that unfortunately. You can only insure the declared amount


----------



## Focux

falling USD is making the 1266 more and more attractive; one major gripe being the fixed Y axis position of the suspension band =/


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Litlgi74 said:


> New addition to the family...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



good lord, what is this - that’s what I thoigjt at the beginning. I know started to read up and got really interested. Could you share some more insights- can this thing drive the tc? Is the dac matching higher end products? And how is the 3D effect? Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Oct 5, 2020)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> good lord, what is this - that’s what I thoigjt at the beginning. I know started to read up and got really interested. Could you share some more insights- can this thing drive the tc? Is the dac matching higher end products? And how is the 3D effect? Thanks for sharing.


Thanks for your interest... I am still in the weeds with this device... I'll post an update once I get things ironed out.

Quick answers...
The A16 can drive the TCs... but only on high gain.... (probably not the best option)
I doubt the DAC is at the level of most users in this thread 
With the included Virtual Listening Rooms... the 3D effect is remarkable... but not personalized. To get the best from the A16... Personal measurements must be done.

Because of the certain design factors... most users say the original HD800 headphones are best.... YMMV


----------



## Bonddam

What taxes don’t you pay in EU that US pays? Seems like you get the raw end of a stick. I don’t remember paying any import taxes on headphones from Kennerton.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Litlgi74 said:


> Thanks for your interest... I am still in the weeds with this device... I'll post an update once I get things ironed out.
> 
> Quick answers...
> The A16 can drive the TCs... but only on high gain.... (probably not the best option)
> ...



Thank you for the quick heads-up! I am probably here one of the few users here believing that dacs/amps are less important than other components ... in any case, I use headphones (HD800S) for gaming and media, so i am intrigued. Yes, please, keep me posted.


----------



## 35FLE

The Hugo TT2 is a great all in one system if powering from the XLR outputs.


----------



## yagislav

35FLE said:


> The Hugo TT2 is a great all in one system if powering from the XLR outputs.


Hey, could you point me in the right direction of what kind of cable adapter that is you have plugged into the back of the TT2? I want to give this a try.


----------



## JonathanKlein

What are the actual (not perceived) benefits to using the balanced outputs on the TT2 that were clearly designed as a preamp out and not headphones (male connectors)?  I know balanced is helpful for noise reduction over long cable runs but is there an audible difference compared to the SE output on the TT2?


----------



## mvvRAZ

JonathanKlein said:


> What are the actual (not perceived) benefits to using the balanced outputs on the TT2 that were clearly designed as a preamp out and not headphones (male connectors)?  I know balanced is helpful for noise reduction over long cable runs but is there an audible difference compared to the SE output on the TT2?


Should be quite a lot more power than the regular output


----------



## MatW

JonathanKlein said:


> What are the actual (not perceived) benefits to using the balanced outputs on the TT2 that were clearly designed as a preamp out and not headphones (male connectors)?  I know balanced is helpful for noise reduction over long cable runs but is there an audible difference compared to the SE output on the TT2?


In my experience SE is more than enough, but some folks here feel that the extra power from the XLR produces better results.


----------



## 35FLE

JonathanKlein said:


> What are the actual (not perceived) benefits to using the balanced outputs on the TT2 that were clearly designed as a preamp out and not headphones (male connectors)?  I know balanced is helpful for noise reduction over long cable runs but is there an audible difference compared to the SE output on the TT2?



The extra power from the XLR outputs provide more depth and physical impact to the sound which I find the SE a bit lacking. For me its only a $70 USD investment compared to buying a dedicated amp.


----------



## 35FLE

yagislav said:


> Hey, could you point me in the right direction of what kind of cable adapter that is you have plugged into the back of the TT2? I want to give this a try.



It is a "balanced dual female 3 pin xlr to female 4 pin xlr adapter"


----------



## yagislav

35FLE said:


> It is a "balanced dual female 3 pin xlr to female 4 pin xlr adapter"


where did you purchase yours from?


----------



## henryxiao

Good day Guys,

I really want to know if this TC version would be the final model of the Abyss 1266 series... Honestly releasing new updates every year is too fast, this HP is expensive and the previous models depreciate fast.....  Ouch my wallet hurts...


----------



## 35FLE

henryxiao said:


> Good day Guys,
> 
> I really want to know if this TC version would be the final model of the Abyss 1266 series... Honestly releasing new updates every year is too fast, this HP is expensive and the previous models depreciate fast.....  Ouch my wallet hurts...




I recently had the opportunity to audition and purchase ether a phi CC or TC from the same seller and choose the TC without hesitation. The TC is an evolution of the CC model.


----------



## 35FLE

yagislav said:


> where did you purchase yours from?



Custom made by a local supplier in Australia: www.aurealisaudio.com.au

But you can get them made with any headphone cable supplier which there are many in North America


----------



## Kevxl

yagislav said:


> where did you purchase yours from?


If you want them cheap and fast, there are many seller on Amazon sells them for around $20. If you want custom made, probably most custom cable company could make them as well. I ordered mine from DHC cable, price range from $200 to $500.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 6, 2020)

henryxiao said:


> Good day Guys,
> 
> I really want to know if this TC version would be the final model of the Abyss 1266 series... Honestly releasing new updates every year is too fast, this HP is expensive and the previous models depreciate fast.....  Ouch my wallet hurts...


They didn’t release a new version this year, so maybe they are holding off on releasing an updated version every year.  That said, there are still 3 months left in 2020, so who knows? 

Abyss kind of took advantage of their customers’ good will with releasing 3 different versions so quickly. Whether intentional or not, I think they understand that customers don’t want to pay for upgrades every year 

But, bottom line, the TCs are amazing.  They are the best headphones you can buy


----------



## 35FLE

henryxiao said:


> Good day Guys,
> 
> I really want to know if this TC version would be the final model of the Abyss 1266 series... Honestly releasing new updates every year is too fast, this HP is expensive and the previous models depreciate fast.....  Ouch my wallet hurts...



Same question as the people who purchased the 1266 OG. Its a never ending upgrade journey just enjoy TOTL offerings today and not worry about tomorrow.


----------



## jlbrach

they said this was the last version of the abyss 1266


----------



## koven

I bet Abyss releases a closed back next.


----------



## chimney189

koven said:


> I bet Abyss releases a closed back next.



I've heard rumors of this.


----------



## JLoud

They also mentioned an iem they are working on. On their YouTube channel.


----------



## yagislav

Kevxl said:


> If you want them cheap and fast, there are many seller on Amazon sells them for around $20. If you want custom made, probably most custom cable company could make them as well. I ordered mine from DHC cable, price range from $200 to $500.


Couldn't find any sellers for Amazon Canada =( Might have to do a custom made one..


----------



## Kevxl

yagislav said:


> Couldn't find any sellers for Amazon Canada =( Might have to do a custom made one..


Interesting, I couldn’t find them on Amazon CA as well. Obviously, you’re not missing anything great from those $20 adapters, TC deserves a little better. Also, If you are handy with the soldering iron, you can easily make the adapter yourself. Just simple balanced wiring.


----------



## vonBaron

Yes, it can drive Abyss and sound very good, I'm in little shock.


----------



## Shahrose

Ciggavelli said:


> They didn’t release a new version this year, so maybe they are holding off on releasing an updated version every year.  That said, there are still 3 months left in 2020, so who knows?
> 
> Abyss kind of took advantage of their customers’ good will with releasing 3 different versions so quickly. Whether intentional or not, I think they understand that customers don’t want to pay for upgrades every year
> 
> *But, bottom line, the TCs are amazing.  They are the best headphones you can buy*



I agree, they take the prize over the SR1a and Susvara.


----------



## MatW

yagislav said:


> Couldn't find any sellers for Amazon Canada =( Might have to do a custom made one..


This is an option in North America:
https://www.moon-audio.com/moon-audio-silver-dragon-v3-extension-adapter-cable.html

These are the connectors you need to select. Price is dependent on length you need.


----------



## spacelion2077

Does anyone has any experiences with Abyss customers service? My experience with them has been quite frustrating so far. 

I asked them last week if I could send my headphone to them for a check up. They responded that they can need my information which I submitted right away. Waited till this Monday and got no response, asked them again on the same day if I can send my phone to them, they responded again that they needed my information. Submitted again and of course, I don't hear anything in return. How can a good headphone company like Abyss has such lackluster customer service.


----------



## Bonddam

I’ve never had a problem they even swapped out my headphone that I felt didn’t work right without actually getting it checked out. I even smeared them but called Joe apologized and had a good conversation with him. I recently felt my 1266 had a bass problem and they quickly sent me the ra. If a problem happens they get back to me in time.  You can’t look at people as robots sometimes things get by. Just need to continue to communicate until you get the response you are hoping for. Good luck.


----------



## yagislav

MatW said:


> This is an option in North America:
> https://www.moon-audio.com/moon-audio-silver-dragon-v3-extension-adapter-cable.html
> 
> These are the connectors you need to select. Price is dependent on length you need.


thanks this is just what i was looking for!


----------



## 35FLE

A question to all 1266 users.

Do you often get moisture build up or condensation on the driver grills after each listening session? Can this cause any issues to the drivers in the long term?


----------



## JLoud

What environment are you listening in? Very humid, hot, or cold? I have never had an issue like that.


----------



## ken6217

You need to take them off before you get in the shower.


----------



## 35FLE

JLoud said:


> What environment are you listening in? Very humid, hot, or cold? I have never had an issue like that.



Just a dry office environment. My ears get warm and it creates a humid micro environment within the ear pads. Do people normally loosely fit the headphones over their ears?


----------



## tholt

35FLE said:


> Just a dry office environment. My ears get warm and it creates a humid micro environment within the ear pads. Do people normally loosely fit the headphones over their ears?


Never heard that before. Check out the video on Abyss YT page re: fit. Yes, loose.



ken6217 said:


> You need to take them off before you get in the shower.


LOL


----------



## JLoud

Abyss recommends a very loose fit. Not sealed, just barely touching your ears.


----------



## Kevxl

35FLE said:


> Do you often get moisture build up or condensation on the driver grills after each listening session? Can this cause any issues to the drivers in the long term?


Yes, but not every time. On particularly hot and humid days, I’ve had condensation on part of the grills where my earlobes closest to the casing. Real water droplets on the surface. Doesn’t seem to affect anything.

I contacted Abyss, they said that no need to worry about the inside, it won’t accumulate as it’s a moving part in an open environment. Just take off the pad and wipe the surface condensation away. If I recall correctly, I’d been told to pay special attention not to touch the mesh between the grill. It’s delicate and part of the driver. There is no way to repair the mesh other than replacing the driver assembly.


----------



## 35FLE

Kevxl said:


> Yes, but not every time. On particularly hot and humid days, I’ve had condensation on part of the grills where my earlobes closest to the casing. Real water droplets on the surface. Doesn’t seem to affect anything.
> 
> I contacted Abyss, they said that no need to worry about the inside, it won’t accumulate as it’s a moving part in an open environment. Just take off the pad and wipe the surface condensation away. If I recall correctly, I’d been told to pay special attention not to touch the mesh between the grill. It’s delicate and part of the driver. There is no way to repair the mesh other than replacing the driver assembly.



Thanks for the advice


----------



## erik701

yagislav said:


> Hey, could you point me in the right direction of what kind of cable adapter that is you have plugged into the back of the TT2? I want to give this a try.






Nordost is making one too. It's the same quality, as their Heimdall 2 line of cables and it doesn't cost a fortune.


----------



## Adrian2215

Hey Guys, 

i have now about 150 Hrs of listening with my new 1266 TC and want to upgrade my Dac/Amp. 
My current Amp is the thx789 which works fine (considering the money it costs its amazing) with the Sabaj D5 as a dac. 
The problem is that if i go over about 60% volume on my thx the high s becomes to strong so i cant enjoy my music... 

Im looking for a Tube amp thats smoths out some of the highs but i want still the raw power in the low end like the 789... 
I cant afford the WA33 to be completly honest thats way out of my budget and the smaller one from Woo Audio seems to dont have the full power in the low end... 

I would like to spend between 2k and 4k (cayin ha-300 seems nice).

After that purchase i will buy a nice SS for my 1266 to finalze my setup but i really love the tubiness on my stereo system so i would like to get that with my headphones..

What are youre recomendations?


----------



## Ciggavelli

For everybody with the new headband, does it bunch up in places and curl in the middle?  I feel like I installed it correctly (it wasn't very easy though...), but it just looks off (frankly, bad).  It appears like it is curling and bunching up because it is stretched too tight.  I dunno, maybe it's because of the extra padding in the middle.


----------



## simorag

Ciggavelli said:


> For everybody with the new headband, does it bunch up in places and curl in the middle?  I feel like I installed it correctly (it wasn't very easy though...), but it just looks off (frankly, bad).  It appears like it is curling and bunching up because it is stretched too tight.  I dunno, maybe it's because of the extra padding in the middle.



Same here, honestly a rather disappointing piece of industrial design. 

Also, the new headband - at least with the supplied O-ring set - does not allow the frame to be fully extended as I was used to, hence I get some pressure from the pads on my ears, and the overall comfort is actually WORSE than with the original headband ...


----------



## Ciggavelli

simorag said:


> Same here, honestly a rather disappointing piece of industrial design.
> 
> Also, the new headband - at least with the supplied O-ring set - does not allow the frame to be fully extended as I was used to, hence I get some pressure from the pads on my ears, and the overall comfort is actually WORSE than with the original headband ...


I'm glad I'm not the only one, but it's disappointing that this is the new design.  I also felt pressure on the pads that I didn't before.  I hope that goes away as the o-rings gradually stretch, but who knows.  I may have to go back to the old headband actually.


----------



## stemiki

New purchase: Superconductor HP and Headband!


----------



## koven

stemiki said:


> New purchase: Superconductor HP and Headband!



Let us know how you like the Superconductor, I am on the fence to buy one.


----------



## JLoud

Adrian2215 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> i have now about 150 Hrs of listening with my new 1266 TC and want to upgrade my Dac/Amp.
> My current Amp is the thx789 which works fine (considering the money it costs its amazing) with the Sabaj D5 as a dac.
> ...


I would suggest the Woo WA5le. I used it with my TC for about a year. Plenty of power(8 watts). Really nice amp. I sold mine with upgraded tubes for $2500. New stock is like $3800. But Woo has a Black Friday sale every year with 10% off.


----------



## JLoud

koven said:


> Let us know how you like the Superconductor, I am on the fence to buy one.


I would really like to know as well. It is a big investment without ever hearing it personally.


----------



## Ciggavelli

JLoud said:


> I would really like to know as well. It is a big investment without ever hearing it personally.


I highly recommend it.  There is great synergy with the WA33 and Chord Dave too.  It's definitely a step above the standard cable (which is also good, just not as good)


----------



## JLoud

Ciggavelli said:


> I highly recommend it.  There is great synergy with the WA33 and Chord Dave too.  It's definitely a step above the standard cable (which is also good, just not as good)


Thanks for the input. I'll have to put one on my "to get list."


----------



## Ciggavelli

This new headband is super trash.

It gave me a slight headache, and that never happened with the old one. The clamping pressure is just more pronounced. 

I want my money back or for them to replace my new one with the old version (which I hope they still make; though it’s not on their site anymore)


----------



## MatW

Ciggavelli said:


> This new headband is super trash.
> 
> It gave me a slight headache, and that never happened with the old one. The clamping pressure is just more pronounced.
> 
> I want my money back or for them to replace my new one with the old version (which I hope they still make; though it’s not on their site anymore)


Mmm I ordered one some time ago but no idea when it might arrive. Maybe I should stick with my zmf pilot pad mod..


----------



## ekfc63

Ciggavelli said:


> I highly recommend it.  There is great synergy with the WA33 and Chord Dave too.  It's definitely a step above the standard cable (which is also good, just not as good)



I would also vouch for the SC cable.  Its smoother and more organic sounding than the stock cable.  Its pricey but not out of line with other TOTL cables.  Luckily I managed to find a used one which swung it for me.


----------



## Ciggavelli

MatW said:


> Mmm I ordered one some time ago but no idea when it might arrive. Maybe I should stick with my zmf pilot pad mod..


Yeah, I felt like I ordered mine as soon as it was up on the store, and I just got it.

I emailed Abyss about why I hadn’t gotten mine, while other people have, and they were like, “well as you know the world is different now. We’ll send you it when it is ready”


----------



## vonBaron

ekfc63 said:


> I would also vouch for the SC cable.  Its smoother and more organic sounding than the stock cable.  Its pricey but not out of line with other TOTL cables.  Luckily I managed to find a used one which swung it for me.


I wan't used SC cable too, damn!


----------



## MatW

Too expensive for a cable imho.. Pass for me. Yeah, I know, my loss..


----------



## ken6217

JLoud said:


> I would really like to know as well. It is a big investment without ever hearing it personally.



I have nothing to compare it to, but to me the superconductor cable sounds fantastic.


----------



## Roasty

Ciggavelli said:


> Yeah, I felt like I ordered mine as soon as it was up on the store, and I just got it.
> 
> I emailed Abyss about why I hadn’t gotten mine, while other people have, and they were like, “well as you know the world is different now. We’ll send you it when it is ready”



They really need to hire someone with better customer relation/service skills. That kind of tone is unnecessary and uncalled for, and the same goes for some of their replies in this thread.


----------



## Roasty

Ciggavelli said:


> It gave me a slight headache, and that never happened with the old one. The clamping pressure is just more pronounced.



I'm also getting more clamping pressure. Someone posted before to try a larger O ring size. I've been looking for some replacements on Amazon and eBay.


----------



## Abyss Headphones (Oct 8, 2020)

Ciggavelli said:


> I emailed Abyss about why I hadn’t gotten mine, while other people have, and they were like, “well as you know the world is different now. We’ll send you it when it is ready”



Sorry you took our response [below] that way, probably should rephrase if it paraphrases like that.

"It’s a slow go having these made in small batches. As the world is nowadays everything is behind schedule. Will ship once we have.
Thanks!
The ABYSS Team"

Please realize we're doing our best to have the new headbands made quickly, just that demand is greater than supply. These are hand-made in North America using top shelf materials by a leathersmith who makes fine leather goods for a living.

The thin leather on the new headband should stretch out over time. We initially tried one on a stand and the leather ultimately stretched out in a few days to a slight curve toward the top (assuming trying to stretch by extending the top).
If you're replacing a well healed old style headband and are accustomed to a good amount of stretch, the end rings can be replaced with whatever length that fit your needs. The current rings are urethane, durometer 70, dash number 213, 1/8" thick, 15/16" ID, so shoot for slightly higher, maybe 215. Buna-N or Viton material will also work and are more common. This, or we have a few various sized rings around for the asking.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Abyss Headphones said:


> Sorry you took our response [below] that way, probably should rephrase if it paraphrases like that.
> 
> "It’s a slow go having these made in small batches. As the world is nowadays everything is behind schedule. Will ship once we have.
> Thanks!
> ...


Thanks for responding. I did interpret that response differently than you may have intended.

I will wait a few days and see what happens with the headband. If that doesn’t work I’ll look into larger O-rings.

But, right out of the box, the headband is not of the same quality that I’m used to with Abyss gear. I feel like the top potion and the bottom portion should be attached more tightly, as after inspection there appears to be a lot of air between the top and bottom and that is why it bunches up and curls.


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> For everybody with the new headband, does it bunch up in places and curl in the middle?  I feel like I installed it correctly (it wasn't very easy though...), but it just looks off (frankly, bad).  It appears like it is curling and bunching up because it is stretched too tight.  I dunno, maybe it's because of the extra padding in the middle.


I too have the same issue with it kind of bunched up...it doesnt bother me too much but I do find that the new headband does cause the HP to sit higher up on my head which is a bit of an inconvenience


----------



## MatW

Abyss Headphones said:


> If you're replacing a well healed old style headband and are accustomed to a good amount of stretch, the end rings can be replaced with whatever length that fit your needs. The current rings are urethane, durometer 70, dash number 213, 1/8" thick, 15/16" ID, so shoot for slightly higher, maybe 215. Buna-N or Viton material will also work and are more common. This, or we have a few various sized rings around for the asking.


Maybe it's an idea to include 2 or 3 sizes for customers to try and get the best fit? I assume an O-ring is not very costly and it would save customers a lot of trouble trying to find one themselves. The specs you list above mean absolutely nothing to a layman like me.


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Oct 9, 2020)

I decided to use that length end loop, knowing the soft leather will stretch and conform over time. I placed a final prototype on a 1266 on my desk on a stand (hanging on the headband), and measured the amount of stretch day by day. One day to the next it would drop down a bit, then I would pull open the top frame some more to stretch it, and next day it would drop a bit more, until the leather reached its endpoint of stretch. Chose the end ring length going from that final point. Understood though that when new it's not the same as the well healed one you just removed. Bit of a catch 22. Sort of like a new shoe, it has to break-in.

The way it's assembled is for comfort, when worn it has more of a curved hammock shape rather than flat, better at spreading weight over the top of your head.  What surprises me is the initial quality assessment, imo placing the 2 side by side there's no comparison, the new headband is far higher quality (just ask a woman). 
 I get it though, we all have our 1266 set, and now it's reset. Maybe replacement headbands should be one size larger (amounts to 0.05"/1.2 mm longer). Tiny changes length make a big difference in how it hangs.


----------



## JLoud

Is it wrong that that last sentence cracked me up?


----------



## ken6217

JLoud said:


> Is it wrong that that last sentence cracked me up?



Actually he wrote (just ask a woman) in the wrong place. It should have been at the end of the last sentence.


----------



## MatW

Joe Skubinski said:


> I decided to use that length end loop, knowing the soft leather will stretch and conform over time. I placed a final prototype on a 1266 on my desk on a stand (hanging on the headband), and measured the amount of stretch day by day. One day to the next it would drop down a bit, then I would pull open the top frame some more to stretch it, and next day it would drop a bit more, until the leather reached its endpoint of stretch. Chose the end ring length going from that final point. Understood though that when new it's not the same as the well healed one you just removed. Bit of a catch 22. Sort of like a new shoe, it has to break-in.
> 
> The way it's assembled is for comfort, when worn it has more of a curved hammock shape rather than flat, better at spreading weight over the top of your head.  What surprises me is the initial quality assessment, imo placing the 2 side by side there's no comparison, the new headband is far higher quality (just ask a woman).  I get it though, we all have our 1266 set, and now it's reset. Maybe replacement headbands should be one size larger (amounts to 0.05"/1.2 mm longer). Tiny changes length make a big difference in how it hangs.


Thanks for clarifying. Many users, myself included, use the Room's stand from headphone auditions in Amsterdam, and thus are not hanging the TC by the headband, but on the frame. That would mean it would take much longer for the shoe to break in, I guess...


----------



## Delacaff

koven said:


> Let us know how you like the Superconductor, I am on the fence to buy one.


I would jump the fence. The 1266 is epic with the SC


----------



## vonBaron

Please don't write that...


----------



## Mikey99

Joe Skubinski said:


> I decided to use that length end loop, knowing the soft leather will stretch and conform over time. I placed a final prototype on a 1266 on my desk on a stand (hanging on the headband), and measured the amount of stretch day by day. One day to the next it would drop down a bit, then I would pull open the top frame some more to stretch it, and next day it would drop a bit more, until the leather reached its endpoint of stretch. Chose the end ring length going from that final point. Understood though that when new it's not the same as the well healed one you just removed. Bit of a catch 22. Sort of like a new shoe, it has to break-in.
> 
> The way it's assembled is for comfort, when worn it has more of a curved hammock shape rather than flat, better at spreading weight over the top of your head.  What surprises me is the initial quality assessment, imo placing the 2 side by side there's no comparison, the new headband is far higher quality (just ask a woman).  I get it though, we all have our 1266 set, and now it's reset. Maybe replacement headbands should be one size larger (amounts to 0.05"/1.2 mm longer). Tiny changes length make a big difference in how it hangs.


Actually I just like that the death-metal logo is gone


----------



## koven

Delacaff said:


> I would jump the fence. The 1266 is epic with the SC





vonBaron said:


> Please don't write that...


----------



## Delacaff

vonBaron said:


> Please don't write that...


oops. sorry. usually, i am more eloquent and there are soooooo many reasons to be enthusiast re: the SC. glad that i just shot "epic". because in my mind, a little voice was saying "supercalifragisexyglorious".


----------



## Delacaff

koven said:


>


reminds me some millenials discovering the latest Tesla-like e-Bike on kickstarter.


----------



## shotormotor (Oct 9, 2020)

Any impressions on TToby + TC 1266?
Any improvements compared to TT2 XLR balanced output?
I want to match TC 1266  with TT2 and I don't like the form-factor of Formula S or WA33. (and I don't have enough space on my desk)
I want to stack TT2 + HMS + TToby.
I have already seen this review on Diana Phi + TToby
https://headfonics.com/abyss-headphones-diana-phi-review/2


----------



## mvvRAZ

If anyone is interested in a great deal on the Phi CC (2018 edition) in the EU let me know. I got mine from another Head-Fier, has some wear marks but is in an otherwise great condition and comes with a 4.4, 6.3 and XLR cable. I might be posting it for sale soon but would be happy to sell it off the bat if someone would like one! 

Will post photos if anyone is interested


----------



## Trance_Gott (Oct 9, 2020)

mvvRAZ said:


> If anyone is interested in a great deal on the Phi CC (2018 edition) in the EU let me know. I got mine from another Head-Fier, has some wear marks but is in an otherwise great condition and comes with a 4.4, 6.3 and XLR cable. I might be posting it for sale soon but would be happy to sell it off the bat if someone would like one!
> 
> Will post photos if anyone is interested


Rad0, TC what you want buy next?   
Think there are in Top 5 of the best headphones ever.
You only can go for a KGSSHv Carbon and SR007 MK2 SZ2xxx bass port mod or HE1. I don't know any other headphone better then TC.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Trance_Gott said:


> Rad0, TC what you want buy next?
> Think there are in Top 5 of the best headphones ever.
> You only can go for a Kgsshv Carbon and SR007 MK2 SZ2xxx bass port mod or HE1. I don't know any other headphone better then TC.


I’m a little too satisfied with the Diana V2 currently actually. Absolutely love how it pairs with the GSX Mini - currently considering getting a closed back (either the Verite closed or waiting on the one abyss have been mentioning)

The phi CC is a lovely headphone but just a touch sharp throughout the midrange from what I’m hearing so far


----------



## vonBaron

I love that sharpness, guitars in metal is sooo good with it!


----------



## Trance_Gott

Yes I also had the CC and sold it because of the midrange too thin for me. TC is way better but my SR007 is still better in tonality and the RAD0 also.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Trance_Gott said:


> Yes I also had the CC and sold it because of the midrange too thin for me. TC is way better but my SR007 is still better in tonality and the RAD0 also.


The RAD-0 is alright but I find it is a little too smoothed out for my taste. I don’t really have almost any situations when I’d take it over the Diana V2


----------



## Trance_Gott

mvvRAZ said:


> The RAD-0 is alright but I find it is a little too smoothed out for my taste. I don’t really have almost any situations when I’d take it over the Diana V2


You maybe want to try the Diana Phi is very neutral and transparent a lot more soundstage then v2. But for me too low bass presence. I hear 90% metal.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Trance_Gott said:


> You maybe want to try the Diana Phi is very neutral and transparent a lot more soundstage then v2. But for me too low bass presence. I hear 90% metal.


I don’t really want anything more neutral than the Diana V2. I personally need a decently substantial bass presence, which the Diana V2 is able to provide - the quality there is outstanding. I might get the 1266 TC at some point as the midrange is the only thing about the phi CC that I don’t love but time will tell


----------



## vonBaron

Everyone write about SC superior sound but what about ergonomics? I see it's pretty thick.


----------



## henryxiao

Guys it is one month till the Black Friday this year!!  Hopefully there are some good deals this year to save us from the virus, market crash etc.... Anyway, ready to pull the trigger for the 1266 TC


----------



## ufospls2

shotormotor said:


> Any impressions on TToby + TC 1266?
> Any improvements compared to TT2 XLR balanced output?
> I want to match TC 1266  with TT2 and I don't like the form-factor of Formula S or WA33. (and I don't have enough space on my desk)
> I want to stack TT2 + HMS + TToby.
> ...



I owned the TT2 for a while. I honestly don't think the TToby would be worth it for the Abyss Phi TC, maybe the Susvara, but not the Abyss. If you have speakers to run, I suppose you could try the TToby. Thinking about it, I wonder if we will see a TToby 2 at some point, using the technology from the Ultima Amps, and the Etude.

So yeah, I wouldn't recommend the TToby for the Abyss, the TT2 from its XLR outputs works well, and I don't think the TToby would sound much different. 

An additional amp for a different sound with the Abyss, perhaps more bass or a thicker presentation, that is a whole different story.


----------



## InstantSilence

I find the 0rings too tight for me and I want looser... What should I get?


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> Everyone write about SC superior sound but what about ergonomics? I see it's pretty thick.



Soft and supple.


----------



## tholt

I can thoroughly vouch for the Forza Audioworks Noir HPC headphone cable. It's a blend of UPOCC copper and silver. I found it improved sonics vs stock cable in just about every way. Tone is more natural and rich, mids are fuller, treble is less grainy and harsh, no loss of bass, resolution, speed, soundstage etc. It's also very light and great to the touch. I haven't heard the SC so I can't make any comparisons except to price, the Forza costing about 7x less. I think they have a thread here somewhere.


----------



## vonBaron

Well Forza is form my country, i think is worth a shot.


----------



## vonBaron

But i have 2x Forza cable (Noir and Noir HPC) and i don't find them to be hi-end cable.
Maybe synegry with Abyss is that good?


----------



## tholt

vonBaron said:


> But i have 2x Forza cable (Noir and Noir HPC) and i don't find them to be hi-end cable.
> Maybe synegry with Abyss is that good?


Not knowing what your criteria is for "high-end", price-wise I'd consider the Forza mid-grade. I do think they have a synergy with the 1266. Replacing the stock cable was an immediate improvement IMO, in the ways I described. So against stock, which I actually consider a pretty good cable, I'd still take the Forza all day long. I would guess, assume and hope the SC would be appreciably better still, considering the price difference.


----------



## MatW

tholt said:


> Not knowing what your criteria is for "high-end", price-wise I'd consider the Forza mid-grade. I do think they have a synergy with the 1266. Replacing the stock cable was an immediate improvement IMO, in the ways I described. So against stock, which I actually consider a pretty good cable, I'd still take the Forza all day long. I would guess, assume and hope the SC would be appreciably better still, considering the price difference.


I do not like the stock cable for how it handles. I understand it is expensive, but I much prefer the Forza cable, if only for its suppleness and ease of handling.


----------



## Delacaff

InstantSilence said:


> I find the 0rings too tight for me and I want looser... What should I get?


Joe gives information about the specs. Find a DYI store for o-rings and done.   https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/page-822


----------



## stemiki

Some considerations regarding the Superconductor HP in my system. 

During the first hours of use I noticed a more full-bodied tone in the mid frequencies but very closed and congested.

The headset no longer looked the same. I was a little worried about this. But I had read that it requires at least 70 hours of burn in.  

From this morning the cable starts to go GOOD! I'm about 30 hours of use.

It lost all the opacity it had. It brings out more micro details you didn't notice before, without ever going into sibilant or annoying highs.

The mid-range is now more present, the basses fuller. Super three-dimensional ....

I am now very satisfied! 
Thanks Abyss Team!


----------



## vonBaron

OMG another one...


----------



## MatW

vonBaron said:


> OMG another one...


Just stop reading after the first half of the post


----------



## JLoud

You guys have to stop posting about how good the SC cable is. I'm starting to want one, but even I am having a hard time with the price.


----------



## tholt

MatW said:


> I do not like the stock cable for how it handles. I understand it is expensive, but I much prefer the Forza cable, if only for its suppleness and ease of handling.


Agreed. It is much nicer feeling than stock, and easier to work with.



JLoud said:


> You guys have to stop posting about how good the SC cable is. I'm starting to want one, but even I am having a hard time with the price.


Yup, definitely priced for the 1%


----------



## Mikey99

Subjectively I found the SC cable upgrade to be of the same order of magnitude as adding the M-scaler.


----------



## Roasty (Oct 11, 2020)

JLoud said:


> You guys have to stop posting about how good the SC cable is. I'm starting to want one, but even I am having a hard time with the price.



Just to re-convince myself that the money spent was worth it, I hooked up the stock cable and had a listen to a few songs.

There is more energy up top and sense of immediacy with the stock cable. but when compared to the SC cable, there are some obvious aspects where the SC cable helps to elevates the TC Phi to another level. The SC cable brings about a nice weight and thickness to the mids and midbass region. There is more sensation of "body" and warmth to vocals. There is also more of bass, in terms of amount and sub-bass rumble, and low end extension. Soundstage gets wider too. 

It almost feels like a disservice not to pair the TC Phi with the SC cable.


----------



## vonBaron

Can somone loan me SC cable, i will pay shipping cost


----------



## Homrsimson

vonBaron said:


> Can somone loan me SC cable, i will pay shipping cost



Likewise, lol. I can’t really justify doing a blind buy of it. Has anyone compared it to the prion4?


----------



## simorag

Homrsimson said:


> Likewise, lol. I can’t really justify doing a blind buy of it. Has anyone compared it to the prion4?



I did it here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-14797813

In the end, after having both the SC and Prion4 for several months, I decided to keep the SC because of its fuller body and slightly warmer, yet still very resolving character.

The Prion4 is the most liquid and transparent cable I tried with the TC, though. It manages to be very detailed without any hint of harshness.

Very punchy and tight bass, where the SC has some more bloom and richness throughout.


----------



## Homrsimson

simorag said:


> I did it here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-14797813
> 
> In the end, after having both the SC and Prion4 for several months, I decided to keep the SC because of its fuller body and slightly warmer, yet still very resolving character.
> ...



Interesting, almost sounds like a more resolving Danacable (which I’ve only tried with utopia, but I have an adapter supplier in Europe who is excellent and is making me utopia to abyss adapters).


----------



## MatW

Homrsimson said:


> Interesting, almost sounds like a more resolving Danacable (which I’ve only tried with utopia, but I have an adapter supplier in Europe who is excellent and is making me utopia to abyss adapters).


Who is the adapter supplier? Sounds useful.


----------



## MatW

I am not going to spend 2k on a cable. Period.

(I think.  )


----------



## Homrsimson (Oct 11, 2020)

MatW said:


> Who is the adapter supplier? Sounds useful.



They’re called shibido. I’ve had mixed results with affinity audio (some adapters great, others I feel like there’s a loss of fidelity). But I had a set of utopia to 4 pin mini xlrs made and I couldn’t tell a difference - and at the time I also had a ZMF compatible Danacable, so I was able to do an unusually accurate comparison. I sold that cable and kept the utopia one. Shibido also uses fututech so they are extremely well made and nice finish.

I figured this was an easier way to try a great cable on the abyss, but I have no illusions it won’t match the SC. Problem is I need 7-8 feet, so the cost of getting an SC is even higher for me.


----------



## InstantSilence

Poor man with a TC here. Due to some unfortunate financial come Ups. I'm having to sell my gear even outside of audio.
Anyway, I made keeping the TC happen, at all costs. Because I love it
Now I need a cheap dac/amp that does the job, at least powerful enough, I understand details, resolution are words not allowed in my situation. 
What would do the job? For cheapest price?


----------



## ken6217

I love the SC cable. So much so that I had another one made as as an adapter with speaker tap on one end and female XLR on the end to connect my SC headphone cable.


----------



## Homrsimson

InstantSilence said:


> Poor man with a TC here. Due to some unfortunate financial come Ups. I'm having to sell my gear even outside of audio.
> Anyway, I made keeping the TC happen, at all costs. Because I love it
> Now I need a cheap dac/amp that does the job, at least powerful enough, I understand details, resolution are words not allowed in my situation.
> What would do the job? For cheapest price?



I don’t have a good answer but given I think a lot of folks here run really high end systems, thought my insight might be helpful. I’m waiting on a really good custom amp to be built, and for the next month all I have is a mjolnir 2 and a thx 789. Neither is great but fwiw, the 789 has enough power to run the TC on high gain. So that might be a budget option for the time being. I prefer the mjolnir 2 but unfortunately I don’t think either is great with the TC (I like how the mjo sounds with ZMF’s, hence why I have it).


----------



## Slim1970

simorag said:


> I did it here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-14797813
> 
> In the end, after having both the SC and Prion4 for several months, I decided to keep the SC because of its fuller body and slightly warmer, yet still very resolving character.
> ...


I have the DHC Complement 4 on my TC’s. It‘s very, very similar sounding to the Prion 4. It sounds exactly like you described. I choose to use amps and DACs to tailor the sound while keeping the headphone itself relatively uncolored. It’s the main reason why I haven’t bought the SC cable for my TC’s. I have the Prion 4 on my Susvara’s and it’s a fantastic pairing as well.


----------



## MaggotBrain

InstantSilence said:


> Poor man with a TC here. Due to some unfortunate financial come Ups. I'm having to sell my gear even outside of audio.
> Anyway, I made keeping the TC happen, at all costs. Because I love it
> Now I need a cheap dac/amp that does the job, at least powerful enough, I understand details, resolution are words not allowed in my situation.
> What would do the job? For cheapest price?



Look into audio-gd. Best pound for pound DAC/AMPs out there that can adequately drive the finicky Abyss. I recently bought a Audio gd NTB-29 on eBay for $300 because I found that I was hardly using my abyss in my main speaker rig and I wanted to find a small desktop solution for another room. I have tried numerous transportable/portable amps (Chord Hugo/iFi micro Black Label/Woo Topaz 11) but none could do the Abyss justice.  It was like tying a bunch of chihuahuas to a dog sled! I went cheap for a an even more practical reason - I didn’t want my wife barking at me for yet another headphone splurge. But the audio gd can really drive the abyss without much effort and I’ll be damned if it doesn’t do about 90% of what the Chord Dave does at a smidgen of the price.  The unit I have here is about six years old which accounts for the low cost, but I believe even new units are only around $800-$900. Happy bargain hunting!


----------



## Homrsimson

I didn’t realize an 8 foot superconductor goes for nearly 3000 beans. Dear lord, I think the most I could ever justify is about half that.


----------



## vonBaron

Yeah, it's ridiculous... 
I can pay 2000$ for IC cable but not for HP cable.


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> Yeah, it's ridiculous...
> I can pay 2000$ for IC cable but not for HP cable.



What would you pay for a speaker cable? That’s what a headphone cable is.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Somebody in this thread said to not just look at the Superconductors as cables, but as a way to upgrade to your TCs.

The slight reframe makes it a bit easier to justify the substantial cost. It really does upgrade your TCs.  They are that good


----------



## InstantSilence

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KQW1WFX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fab_OUYGFbCZRT4SP

Sorry guys, I'm poor yet love the TC, and having to downgrade financially
This product seems to have a dac and balanced out. 
I don't know what to look for in the product description, is this capable to drive the TC with authority? 
I know it's probably poop but I'm hoping it can at least drive them ok, not expecting anything nice here...


----------



## Ciggavelli

InstantSilence said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KQW1WFX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fab_OUYGFbCZRT4SP
> 
> Sorry guys, I'm poor yet love the TC, and having to downgrade financially
> This product seems to have a dac and balanced out.
> ...


The Schiit Jotunheim can come with a dac and it drives the TCs with authority. I bought one a while back to test out. It does actually drive them well

https://www.schiit.com/products/jotunheim


----------



## JLoud

InstantSilence said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KQW1WFX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fab_OUYGFbCZRT4SP
> 
> Sorry guys, I'm poor yet love the TC, and having to downgrade financially
> This product seems to have a dac and balanced out.
> ...


It appears to have enough power. From what I've heard very clean sounding. As an amp to use until you can save up for an upgrade, I would say yes.


----------



## JLoud

The Jotunheim does drive it nicely. I had one I used on my 1266cc. I wasn't crazy about the sound signature, but it certainly had enough power.


----------



## ufospls2

InstantSilence said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KQW1WFX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fab_OUYGFbCZRT4SP
> 
> Sorry guys, I'm poor yet love the TC, and having to downgrade financially
> This product seems to have a dac and balanced out.
> ...



What I might suggest is, if you are using a computer as your source, 3.5mm to RCA Cable from your computers headphone out, into an ok amp. I'd have a look at the used market, but there are some good options. Monoprice has the THX amp

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=39359

I think the Asgard 3 from Schiit might even do an ok job

https://www.schiit.com/products/asgard

Also the Magnius

https://www.schiit.com/products/magnius

These are good low cost options. If you want to spend a bit more, the FluxLab FA-10 seems to be getting good reviews

https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/fa10/

Another option is check out your local craigslist/gumtree ads. Look for cheap vintage receivers. As long as they are solid state, and being careful with the volume knob, you can use these with headphones with an adapter from the speaker outputs. 

Best of luck, and I think with a few hundred invested you will still be able to enjoy your TC's


----------



## jlbrach

Mikey99 said:


> Subjectively I found the SC cable upgrade to be of the same order of magnitude as adding the M-scaler.



ummmm, no!


----------



## mvvRAZ

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/raz...otl-iem-shootout.916021/page-51#post-15914641

A mini review/impressions post of the 1266 Phi CC if anyone is interested  (not the TC, I believe that's the semi-last version)


----------



## vonBaron




----------



## tholt

mvvRAZ said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/raz...otl-iem-shootout.916021/page-51#post-15914641
> 
> A mini review/impressions post of the 1266 Phi CC if anyone is interested  (not the TC, I believe that's the semi-last version)



I also have the Phi CC. I tend to agree with you about the midrange. There can be a slight sharpness to it, on through the treble. Others have remarked the midrange can sound a bit thin, which to me is the more accurate term. I believe the slight thinness of the midrange, combined with the Abyss' extreme resolution and incisive leading edge attack, contributes to a certain sharpness in mids and treble. I've often wondered if the mids were fuller, perhaps this sharpness would be offset a bit. Through many amps, cables and DACs, I've found this characteristic still remained. I believe it's just part of the sonic sig of this headphone. Despite that, the Abyss is still a technical marvel and always an 'experience' when listening. So much so that I've tried to warm up just about every other part of my system to compensate, rather than sell it off for different headphones. 

Others may disagree; we all hear things differently. I have not heard the TC so don't know if the thinness is mitigated or alleviated. It also sounds like the SC cable helps here, though I'm at odds with its cost.

Luckily the fit is fine for me; I can wear it for hours.


----------



## JLoud

I had the CC and now have the TC. The mids are indeed fleshed out more. The mid-range was my only real complaint with the CC. Still loved it, but wanted a more balanced sound. The TC accomplishes that. Very happy now.


----------



## vonBaron

So TC have more "meat" on midrange than CC?
And what about bass? It has same amout of quality and quanity?


----------



## InstantSilence

When is the next 1266 coming out? I mean, in the past, what was the frequency of newly released?


----------



## JLoud

vonBaron said:


> So TC have more "meat" on midrange than CC?
> And what about bass? It has same amout of quality and quanity?


Yes I would say the have more "meat" in the mid-range. Less of a V response, more neutral. The bass is just as detailed, and hits just as hard as the CC.


----------



## Bonddam

What would they need to improve on for a new 1266?


----------



## InstantSilence

Bonddam said:


> What would they need to improve on for a new 1266?


To me, even more meat on the mids, a mid forward signature. But that's what I wish... Not what needs a fix. 
As far as sound im în love, no need for a change to me.
But that stock cable... Stiff... Awkward... Horrible sleeve design.... Idk.... Change that


----------



## Ciggavelli

InstantSilence said:


> To me, even more meat on the mids, a mid forward signature. But that's what I wish... Not what needs a fix.
> As far as sound im în love, no need for a change to me.
> But that stock cable... Stiff... Awkward... Horrible sleeve design.... Idk.... Change that


Part of me thinks that Abyss purposefully made the stock cable that unwieldy and awkward.  

The ergonomics of the stock cable just suck. They sound good, but I hated the feel and plastic-ness of it. Due to that, I looked into upgrading, and lo and behold I bought the superconductor. They got me

Luckily the SC is actually a nice upgrade.


----------



## InstantSilence

Ciggavelli said:


> Part of me thinks that Abyss purposefully made the stock cable that unwieldy and awkward.
> 
> The ergonomics of the stock cable just suck. They sound good, but I hated the feel and plastic-ness of it. Due to that, I looked into upgrading, and lo and behold I bought the superconductor. They got me
> 
> Luckily the SC is actually a nice upgrade.


Can one cut the cable, lightly, just the sleeve, vertical cut and resleeve it?


----------



## MatW (Oct 12, 2020)

InstantSilence said:


> Can one cut the cable, lightly, just the sleeve, vertical cut and resleeve it?


Only one way to find out. Good luck and let us know!


----------



## 35FLE

Bonddam said:


> What would they need to improve on for a new 1266?



Just provide a nice discount on the Superconductor cable


----------



## Ciggavelli

InstantSilence said:


> Can one cut the cable, lightly, just the sleeve, vertical cut and resleeve it?


It’s a $700 gamble. You might ask a professional somebody to do it for you. (No I don’t know what professional could do this safely, but one surely exists)


----------



## JLoud

Looking at the price of the SC cable, I can only imagine it's made of 7n unobtanium by technological elves in a secret lab somewhere. And shipped to Abyss.


----------



## JLoud

Of course I'm still thinking of getting one. Just wish I could try it first.


----------



## JLoud

Anybody know what the return policy is on Abyss cables?


----------



## Ciggavelli

JLoud said:


> Of course I'm still thinking of getting one. Just wish I could try it first.


Thecableco may be your best bet. They have some sort of lending library

https://www.thecableco.com/lending-library


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> Thecableco may be your best bet. They have some sort of lending library
> 
> https://www.thecableco.com/lending-library



I’ved demoed every digital cable and interconnect  cable from them before buying. I may have not always purchase from them, but I did get a chance to listen to a ton of cables.

they give you about two weeks to try it, and they charge you 5% of the retail as the rental. Addition to that, the people there are very knowledgeable and you could tell them what your system is and how you like to hear the music, for example analytical, musical, etc. etc, and they’ll direct you.


----------



## JLoud

Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## Shahrose (Oct 20, 2020)

Ciggavelli said:


> For everybody with the new headband, does it bunch up in places and curl in the middle?  I feel like I installed it correctly (it wasn't very easy though...), but it just looks off (frankly, bad).  It appears like it is curling and bunching up because it is stretched too tight.  I dunno, maybe it's because of the extra padding in the middle.



I notice the headband crease you're referring to but they remain comfortable for me, surprisingly so considering their weight.

I've been running the TCs via the Master 9 and HSA1b. Haven't had a chance to test them with the Kinki EX-M1+ but I'll get around to it.
Regardless, no headphone has captured my attention this way since the HD800 was first released. It didn't take long to realize the TCs were the best I've heard, supplanting the SR1a (with the Jotunheim R) and Susvara overall. Perhaps a total of 25% of my music collection sounds better on the other cans but for the other 75% I find myself reaching for the Abyss. They commit the fewest errors and unsurprisingly serve as the best all-rounders.

The soundstage is interesting in that it's very nearly the size of if not the equal of the HD800, but with more fullness and larger images (that planars often produce). It's better at recreating the feeling of listening in a large room than any other headphone. The SR1a sometimes do this with even greater effect but their projection is more from ahead and less surrounding. I feel the bass of the Abyss, absent on the RAALs, also contributes to its more convincing room-effect.

Others have done well to compare the Susvara, SR1a and TCs here so I won't detail those differences right now.

Edit: I should clarify that these comparisons are with the HPs in their respective stock forms. Once aftermarket cables, EQs and especially high-end amping (HSA1b) is including in the picture, the SR1a take the top spot most of the time because of what they do well (greatest clarity, dynamics, speed and largest soundstage with equal if not better imaging). Despite this, it's still very close between the RAALs and 1266 TC because of the latter's lack of flaws. The Abyss score a 9 or 10 in every measure right out of the box, whereas the SR1a take a lot of work with ancillaries to match or surpass that (and even then they can't match the subbass of the 1266 TC).


----------



## jlbrach

I find the new handband to be tighter than the old one, so much so that when I try to expand them and make them wider, it is so tight that it actually snaps back closed...I am presently trying to stretch the rings to make it a bit looser


----------



## Bonddam

I like the new head band because it’s seems thicker so I’m not putting padding underneath to get the ear cups off my ears.


----------



## paradoxper

vonBaron said:


>



I quite enjoyed that video.

Although I don't subscribe to Z, he perfectly captured the TC magic when he said **** shot out of his earholes.


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> I find the new handband to be tighter than the old one, so much so that when I try to expand them and make them wider, it is so tight that it actually snaps back closed...I am presently trying to stretch the rings to make it a bit looser


I was a early or 1st or 2nd recipient of the new headband and reported the snap-back nature with the headband. I've yet to naturally break-in the o-rings to mitigate this characteristic although it doesn't bother my fit, it was of a little curious note.


----------



## joseph69

Ciggavelli said:


> Thecableco may be your best bet. They have some sort of lending library
> 
> https://www.thecableco.com/lending-library





JLoud said:


> Thanks for the suggestions.


Forget it.
The Cable Company doesn't loan out headphone cables because there are too many different configurations.
Also, since COVID-19 they've stopped loaning out headphones last I spoke to them (+/-2mos ago) and I'm assuming they've stopped loaning out everything and doubt this has changed since.


----------



## efejoao

Guys,

I am considering buying a 1266 (Diana owner) and I am a bit confused with the models.

1266 OG, Phi CC, and Phi TC. What is the difference between them? Which one to get?

the other question I have is: is the HeadAmp GS-X mini a good pairing for it? For the Diana is-just amazing!

Thank you !


----------



## MatW

jlbrach said:


> I find the new handband to be tighter than the old one, so much so that when I try to expand them and make them wider, it is so tight that it actually snaps back closed...I am presently trying to stretch the rings to make it a bit looser


Hmm. I don't have mine yet, but I'm having second thoughts. Sounds like I would be shopping for O rings soon.. I wish they just provided a few sizes like I suggested.


----------



## silversurfer616

efejoao said:


> Guys,
> 
> I am considering buying a 1266 (Diana owner) and I am a bit confused with the models.
> 
> ...


Have the Diana V1, Abyss 1266Phi CC and the GSX- mini and the synergy between 1266 and GSX is outstanding. Also, use the WA22 with the 1266 which helps to put some meat into the midrange( some people find the 1266 Phi midrange a tad thin).


----------



## efejoao

silversurfer616 said:


> Have the Diana V1, Abyss 1266Phi CC and the GSX- mini and the synergy between 1266 and GSX is outstanding. Also, use the WA22 with the 1266 which helps to put some meat into the midrange( some people find the 1266 Phi midrange a tad thin).


I am close to having the exact same set as you have (minus WA22 LOL).

how does the 1266 Phi compare to the Diana V1? That is exactly the version I have )


----------



## qboogie

Has anyone auditioned the 1266 TC with any Questyle amps like the CMA6001 or the newer Twelve amp? Those current mode amps do really well with the Audeze planars, and I'm just wondering if this might be true with Abyss' planars as well


----------



## paradoxper

qboogie said:


> Has anyone auditioned the 1266 TC with any Questyle amps like the CMA6001 or the newer Twelve amp? Those current mode amps do really well with the Audeze planars, and I'm just wondering if this might be true with Abyss' planars as well


Of course it's true with Abyss. A bit clean and powerful as the GS-X. 

IMO you'd get far better performance out of a DIY commission. Outside of that, I'd grab an integrated and some adapters.
Most headamps simply leave too much on the table.


----------



## ufospls2 (Oct 13, 2020)

efejoao said:


> Guys,
> 
> I am considering buying a 1266 (Diana owner) and I am a bit confused with the models.
> 
> ...



AB1266 Original: The least refined in terms of technicalities, still an excellent headphone even today. I think the difference between the original, and the follow up Phi was often over stated.

AB1266 Phi: Introduction of new drivers. There are two versions in terms of finish, shiny black, and flat black. Definitely a step up in terms of technicalities and mid range tonality, but as I said, the differences are often overstated, in my opinion.

AB1266 Phi CC: Introduction of the CC ear pads and Ceramic Coated grey frame (hence the name CC.) Same drivers as the original Phi. Same sound, apart from the difference in earpads. 

AB1266 Phi TC: New driver introduced again (total consciousness, hence the name TC.) The most advanced in terms of details and technicalities, and also the most tonally balanced.

Diana V1: Not as good as any of the 1266's, in my opinion, but still a great headphone.

I would reckon the GSX-Mini would work well with the 1266 (any version.)


----------



## chimney189

Does anyone have a comparison between the Abyss Diana V2 and the 1266?


----------



## TheMiddleSky

qboogie said:


> Has anyone auditioned the 1266 TC with any Questyle amps like the CMA6001 or the newer Twelve amp? Those current mode amps do really well with the Audeze planars, and I'm just wondering if this might be true with Abyss' planars as well



Had 600i, and currently running 12 master. Excellent pairing with LCD 4Z and Diana (both V2 or Phi), but not enough for Phi CC or Phi TC.

Yes, with typical pop/jazz recording, we can get loud at 12.00 - 03.00 o'clock, but when I compared to something like Violecrtric V281 or Wells Milo Vishay (with 12 Master as DAC), the upgrade in sound quality is significant.


----------



## InstantSilence

chimney189 said:


> Does anyone have a comparison between the Abyss Diana V2 and the 1266?


Not the v2. But had Diana phi briefly abd the TC is miles better in every regard, it's jsut more of everything


----------



## Trance_Gott

The TC is a massive massive upgrade over the OG in terms of resolution and tonality.
I wish Tyll would be review it. I have the feeling it surpasses the SR009s here  but I'm not Tyll Hertsens.


----------



## silversurfer616

efejoao said:


> I am close to having the exact same set as you have (minus WA22 LOL).
> 
> how does the 1266 Phi compare to the Diana V1? That is exactly the version I have )


The 1266 Phi is better in everything except fit...it just feels weird to have a headphone sitting somewhat precariously on one’s head, you do miss that *hugging* feeling.
Never heard bass and drums more lifelike than with the 1266Phi. Admittedly, the midrange could be a tad meatier but I can live with that.


----------



## FLTWS

It's too bad the Phi couldn't be retrofitted to TC status but I'm still okay with my Phi and CC pads.


----------



## vonBaron

Me too! 
My DAC and AMP x2 bring more meat to midrange so it's almost perfect.


----------



## Bonddam

Closed back Diana is next.


----------



## InstantSilence

vonBaron said:


> Me too!
> My DAC and AMP x2 bring more meat to midrange so it's almost perfect.


What do yiu got?


----------



## InstantSilence

I'm not understanding this clock reference when folks mention the ear pads placement.
Can I get a picture of your guys pad placement on the headphone? Please


----------



## efejoao

ufospls2 said:


> AB1266 Original: The least refined in terms of technicalities, still an excellent headphone even today. I think the difference between the original, and the follow up Phi was often over stated.
> 
> AB1266 Phi: Introduction of new drivers. There are two versions in terms of finish, shiny black, and flat black. Definitely a step up in terms of technicalities and mid range tonality, but as I said, the differences are often overstated, in my opinion.
> 
> ...



Thank you VERY MUCH.... this helps a lot. The best explanation I ever had for the confusion it is understanding the Abyss Products (and they only have 3 LOL)


----------



## efejoao

I am thinking of selling a few pieces of gear to get one Phi CC such as my KSE 1200 and my Astell & Kern SP1000. Lets see.


----------



## vonBaron

InstantSilence said:


> What do yiu got?


Check my signature!


----------



## Roasty (Oct 13, 2020)

InstantSilence said:


> I'm not understanding this clock reference when folks mention the ear pads placement.
> Can I get a picture of your guys pad placement on the headphone? Please



Try this:
Wear your headphones
Take them off
Look into the left driver and then see position of the pad seam.
The seam on the left ear pad should be pointing forwards.
Seam position for left pad seam would correspond to 12, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 o'clock (I think most would be at 2 or 3 o'clock).

For the right side, references would be 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 o'clock. Basically where the seam points to.

I have mine at L2 R10 and quite often L3 R9 (if I want more bass).

Here is L2



Here is R10


----------



## Ciggavelli

InstantSilence said:


> I'm not understanding this clock reference when folks mention the ear pads placement.
> Can I get a picture of your guys pad placement on the headphone? Please


I took this a while ago, but I still use this fitting. So this is like 1 o’clock on the left and 11 o’clock on the right


----------



## vonBaron

For pad placement it would be nice if you guys take pictures how you place them.


----------



## Bonddam (Oct 13, 2020)

My pad postion is L4 and R8. also L2 and R10 also I sit in a foward position sitting down which sucks, when I relax I’ll put it at 2 and 10 but bass goes out the door.

here is pic of 4 and 8 this is my full on bass setting.


----------



## ekfc63

Bonddam said:


> Closed back Diana is next.



Now thats a HP I’d buy


----------



## paradoxper

Roasty said:


> Try this:
> Wear your headphones
> Take them off
> Look into the left driver and then see position of the pad seam.
> ...


I think now it would also be prudent to clarify which headband is being used with these pad positions.


----------



## Roasty

paradoxper said:


> I think now it would also be prudent to clarify which headband is being used with these pad positions.



Old and new headband didn't make that big of a difference with the pad positions for me. 

Because of the tautness of the new o-rings on the new headband, the frame itself is brought inwards more causing a bit more pad surface to be in contact with the sides of my head; I remedied this by just opening up the frame angle slightly.


----------



## typalder

great video!!!!


----------



## E-norm

Hello guys,

I am contemplating pulling the trigger on a pair of TC 1266s but agonising a bit about amp choices. I have a Linear Tube Audio MZ2 which I love in tandem with a Chord Hugo 2. My main headphones currently are the Empyreans and Verite Closed and they work wonderfully with the MZ2. I was hoping I could still use it as a preamp but I need more raw power I guess. Does anybody have any good recommendations which could play along nicely with this setup?


----------



## GuyForkes

E-norm said:


> Does anybody have any good recommendations which could play along nicely with this setup?



I use the LTA MZ3 as a preamp to a Pass XA25 stereo amp. Great pairing for the TC.


----------



## Blueoris

Would it be possible that a phi CC would be preferred over a phi TC, sonic-wise, provided both headphones are driven at their fullest capacity?


----------



## Litlgi74

Blueoris said:


> Would it be possible that a phi CC would be preferred over a phi TC, sonic-wise, provided both headphones are driven at their fullest capacity?


Nope... I've owned both... TCs win.


----------



## JLoud

Agreed. I went from the CC to the TC. The TC is definitely a step up all the way around.


----------



## Homrsimson

is it generally not advised to buy a superconductor or other upgrade cable that is dual 3 pin if you can only use with an adapter to 4 pin xlr? I’ve had mixed experiences with adapters and whether they impact sound quality.


----------



## JLoud

My WA33 has dual 3 pin xlr so I will probably order one that way if I get one. Just get a high quality adapter. Abyss makes one I believe.


----------



## Bonddam

Homrsimson said:


> is it generally not advised to buy a superconductor or other upgrade cable that is dual 3 pin if you can only use with an adapter to 4 pin xlr? I’ve had mixed experiences with adapters and whether they impact sound quality.


I know the SC comes in a 4 pin xlr connector.


----------



## JLoud

I'm kind of up in the air on which one to get. I have both on my amp. Resale would probably be better with the 4 pin XLR.


----------



## Bonddam

The 3 pin just looks nicer but if you decide to sell it you have a bigger audience to sell to.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 15, 2020)

Don’t get the 2 three pin xlr.  One, like everybody has mentioned, it’ll be easier to sell the 4-pin. Two, if you change amps, very few have 2 three pin connectors. Three, adapters converting the 3-pins to a 4-pin or SE cost more. Four, wires get tangled more with two wires not connected to each other. Five, there is no added sound quality benefit with two 3-pins over a 4-pin.


----------



## Bonddam

I can say I wish I got the 4 pin instead because I have a Citadel custom coming next year which makes me switch to the stock cable.


----------



## Blueoris

Litlgi74 said:


> Nope... I've owned both... TCs win.





JLoud said:


> Agreed. I went from the CC to the TC. The TC is definitely a step up all the way around.



My concern is that I am into tonal balance and not too much on resolution, layering, dynamics, technicalities etc. Also, I happen to love dry and lean articulation in the mids. 
To me, CC midrange and tonal balance between mids and highs is spot on, but I have read here that mids in the TC are less drier, fuller and highs are a bit rounded, compared to CC. 
And I won't allow myself owning both models, just one.
Any thoughts?


----------



## JonathanKlein

Christmas has come early. Impatiently waiting for the rest of the system to get here next week.


----------



## Roasty

JonathanKlein said:


> Christmas has come early. Impatiently waiting for the rest of the system to get here next week.



Wow what a setup! For me that would be Christmas coming early over several years!


----------



## Homrsimson

Ciggavelli said:


> Don’t get the 2 three pin xlr.  One, like everybody has mentioned, it’ll be easier to sell the 4-pin. Two, if you change amps, very few have 2 three pin connectors. Three, adapters converting the 3-pins to a 4-pin or SE cost more. Four, wires get tangled more with two wires not connected to each other. Five, there is no added sound quality benefit with two 3-pins over a 4-pin.



Thanks, all good points. I guess I’m wondering though if I can get one with an abyss adapter, is there any degradation in sound quality if I use the adapter


----------



## JLoud

I believe Abyss sells their deluxe package with dual 3 pin xlr with adapters for 4 pin xlr and 6.3 SE. So I would say no degradation. The SC cable, like the stock Abyss cable is two wires all the way from headphone to plug. You can always use velcro wraps if you find it too cumbersome. I did with the stock at first. But I have since removed them, I don't have issues with it. But all good points made in previous post. What would you ever sell the SC cable and upgrade to? Just wondering to my self.


----------



## JonathanKlein (Oct 15, 2020)

JLoud said:


> What would you ever sell the SC cable and upgrade to? Just wondering to my self.



I opted for the Lazuli Nirvana but would like to A/B with the SC before deciding to keep it.


----------



## Mikey99

Litlgi74 said:


> Nope... I've owned both... TCs win.


I have too, agree the TC is better than the CC.


----------



## Mikey99

Homrsimson said:


> is it generally not advised to buy a superconductor or other upgrade cable that is dual 3 pin if you can only use with an adapter to 4 pin xlr? I’ve had mixed experiences with adapters and whether they impact sound quality.


I use the Abyss adapter, it works well, no noticeable impact on sound quality to my ears.


----------



## GuyForkes

So.. after about a week with the new headband trying to stretch the o-rings out, it didn't expand enough to where it felt even remotely comfortable. Worst of all, the rings were so tight I couldn't toe-in the drivers which was my preferred configuration.

I ended up ordering a bunch of O-rings (Size 215 & 216) off Amazon:
https://www.amazon.sg/gp/product/B0051XY4AS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They arrived today, 100 pieces a pack



Big difference in size between the stock rings and the ordered ones


This makes a huge difference and completely resolves the issues I had with the new headband. Highly recommended for those who have been struggling with the new headband. No complaints about the leather part of the headband, it's a clear upgrade in quality and comfort.


----------



## Roasty

GuyForkes said:


> So.. after about a week with the new headband trying to stretch the o-rings out, it didn't expand enough to where it felt even remotely comfortable. Worst of all, the rings were so tight I couldn't toe-in the drivers which was my preferred configuration.
> 
> I ended up ordering a bunch of O-rings (Size 215 & 216) off Amazon:
> https://www.amazon.sg/gp/product/B0051XY4AS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> ...



I saw the same on amazon, but was trying to figure out what to do with the other 98 pieces! Lol

Which is the better size? 215 or 216?


----------



## GuyForkes

Roasty said:


> I saw the same on amazon, but was trying to figure out what to do with the other 98 pieces! Lol
> 
> Which is the better size? 215 or 216?



I started with 216 but it was so comfortable I didn't want to go through the hassle of swapping it. Btw, pm'ed you.


----------



## Articnoise

Ciggavelli said:


> Don’t get the 2 three pin xlr.  One, like everybody has mentioned, it’ll be easier to sell the 4-pin. Two, if you change amps, very few have 2 three pin connectors. Three, adapters converting the 3-pins to a 4-pin or SE cost more. Four, wires get tangled more with two wires not connected to each other. Five, there is no added sound quality benefit with two 3-pins over a 4-pin.



Which cable and amp did you use to test that there is no added sound quality benefit with two 3-pins over a 4-pin?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Articnoise said:


> Which cable and amp did you use to test that there is no added sound quality benefit with two 3-pins over a 4-pin?


I researched it prior to buying the Superconductor.  Everything I read said that there were no sound quality differences between the 3-pin and the 4-pin


----------



## Focux

GuyForkes said:


> So.. after about a week with the new headband trying to stretch the o-rings out, it didn't expand enough to where it felt even remotely comfortable. Worst of all, the rings were so tight I couldn't toe-in the drivers which was my preferred configuration.
> 
> I ended up ordering a bunch of O-rings (Size 215 & 216) off Amazon:
> https://www.amazon.sg/gp/product/B0051XY4AS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> ...



these remind me of O rings from water cooling days..


----------



## Homrsimson

JonathanKlein said:


> I opted for the Lazuli Nirvana but would like to A/B with the SC before deciding to keep it.





GuyForkes said:


> I started with 216 but it was so comfortable I didn't want to go through the hassle of swapping it. Btw, pm'ed you.



I’m likewise interested in trying this, since I also have a bit noggin. I’ll have to see if I can find these in the US store


----------



## joseph69

JLoud said:


> Resale would probably be better with the 4 pin XLR.


Definitely


----------



## mat.1

4 pin is gold plated, 3 pin is rhodium.


----------



## typalder

To all the Speaker-Amp-for-Abyss-Guys: Anybody using a Mcintosh Integrated for their Abyss via Speaker Taps? Cause i do and i can highly recommend it. Compared to Amps like the Ican Pro or even the Violectric 281 it`s kind of another planet  Would like to hear my Mcintosh MA6700 in comparison to the highly praised Moon 430 or 600 amps on day....


----------



## paradoxper

typalder said:


> To all the Speaker-Amp-for-Abyss-Guys: Anybody using a Mcintosh Integrated for their Abyss via Speaker Taps? Cause i do and i can highly recommend it. Compared to Amps like the Ican Pro or even the Violectric 281 it`s kind of another planet  Would like to hear my Mcintosh MA6700 in comparison to the highly praised Moon 430 or 600 amps on day....


I had half-pined for the MHA100/150 for use with the TC, however, came away a little skeptical of its warm nature.
Decided on a Pass Labs INT-150 and likely will end my search.

The 600i is also a lovely sounding amplifier.


----------



## ken6217

typalder said:


> To all the Speaker-Amp-for-Abyss-Guys: Anybody using a Mcintosh Integrated for their Abyss via Speaker Taps? Cause i do and i can highly recommend it. Compared to Amps like the Ican Pro or even the Violectric 281 it`s kind of another planet  Would like to hear my Mcintosh MA6700 in comparison to the highly praised Moon 430 or 600 amps on day....



i haven’t used a McIntosh, but I am using an Audio Research speaker amp, and have tried Pass Labs, and owned a Simaudio speaker amps. The first amp I used with my 1266 TC was a Violectric V281 as that has always been my favorite headphone amp. You can’t even put the V281 in the same sentence with any of those speaker amps. Every characteristic and sonic attribute of those amps are vastly better, and I mean vastly.


----------



## JonathanKlein

I got the Bakoon AMP-13R for the Susvaras that really make it sing. I'm hard-pressed to think it will outperform the HeadTrip with the TC but I'll give it a go.


----------



## typalder (Oct 17, 2020)

ken6217 said:


> i haven’t used a McIntosh, but I am using an Audio Research speaker amp, and have tried Pass Labs, and owned a Simaudio speaker amps. The first amp I used with my 1266 TC was a Violectric V281 as that has always been my favorite headphone amp. You can’t even put the V281 in the same sentence with any of those speaker amps. Every characteristic and sonic attribute of those amps are vastly better, and I mean vastly.



what made you choosing the AR in the end if i may ask?

and: with my mcintosh i can choose between the 2,4 or 8 ohm taps. which one would you prefer technichally?

regards from germany, oliver


----------



## olle83

After reading a lot of this thread I have come to decision that I just have to buy these headphones, even though I have never even heard them. Unfortunately I don't have enough money saved up... One day...


----------



## jlbrach

JonathanKlein said:


> I got the Bakoon AMP-13R for the Susvaras that really make it sing. I'm hard-pressed to think it will outperform the HeadTrip with the TC but I'll give it a go.


the bakoon 13r is the best amp I have heard thus far for the susvara...marvelous and it is excellent with the abyss TC as well...also the small size is wonderful


----------



## Trance_Gott

Bonddam said:


> My pad postion is L4 and R8. also L2 and R10 also I sit in a foward position sitting down which sucks, when I relax I’ll put it at 2 and 10 but bass goes out the door.
> 
> here is pic of 4 and 8 this is my full on bass setting.


My position is also L4 and R8.


----------



## ken6217

typalder said:


> what made you choosing the AR in the end if i may ask?
> 
> and: with my mcintosh i can choose between the 2,4 or 8 ohm taps. which one would you prefer technichally?
> 
> regards from germany, oliver



I always liked AR. I have used it before in my 2 channel speaker system. Very musical, lots of power, instruments sound so real. Great soundstage and depth, the leading edge and decay of the notes.

I never heard it with headphones before. I did it on a whim actually. I sold my Simaudio 600i V2 and got the AR amp. I had an AR tube preamp already.

I have the choice of 4 ohm or 8 ohm tap. Same power for both. I use the 8 ohm tap, but never listened to the 4 ohm tap. Not sure if it would sound any different.


----------



## typalder

ken6217 said:


> I always liked AR. I have used it before in my 2 channel speaker system. Very musical, lots of power, instruments sound so real. Great soundstage and depth, the leading edge and decay of the notes.
> 
> I never heard it with headphones before. I did it on a whim actually. I sold my Simaudio 600i V2 and got the AR amp. I had an AR tube preamp already.
> 
> I have the choice of 4 ohm or 8 ohm tap. Same power for both. I use the 8 ohm tap, but never listened to the 4 ohm tap. Not sure if it would sound any different.


thanks ken!  and if you try the different tap one day and hear a difference - tell me 😎 

cheers,

oliver


----------



## olle83

typalder said:


> great video!!!!




In this review Joshua said at timecode 10:35 that he didn't like the vocals that much, they seemed unnatural according to him.
I have to ask you guys what do you think about this issue? Is there a problem or not?


----------



## tubelvr1

I’ve been a head-fi abyss thread follower for some time and decided to share my simple yet effective way to make the head band more comfortable. Just cut out some memory foam the shape of the band and attach with double stick tape on the bottom. It will completely change the ergonomics.


----------



## MatW

tubelvr1 said:


> I’ve been a head-fi abyss thread follower for some time and decided to share my simple yet effective way to make the head band more comfortable. Just cut out some memory foam the shape of the band and attach with double stick tape on the bottom. It will completely change the ergonomics.



Could you please share a picture?


----------



## JonathanKlein

tubelvr1 said:


> I’ve been a head-fi abyss thread follower for some time and decided to share my simple yet effective way to make the head band more comfortable. Just cut out some memory foam the shape of the band and attach with double stick tape on the bottom. It will completely change the ergonomics.



I was actually considering taking mine to leather shop to open up the band, insert the memory foam, and then stitch it back together. Not that these are the most aesthetically pleasing headphones to begin with, but it would be relatively inexpensive way of keeping the factory look.


----------



## Jon L (Oct 18, 2020)

olle83 said:


> In this review Joshua said at timecode 10:35 that he didn't like the vocals that much, they seemed unnatural according to him.
> I have to ask you guys what do you think about this issue? Is there a problem or not?



I'm surprised he even called this video a "Review."
He says here himself that he is using "unfamiliar equipment with unfamiliar headphones in a strange place."


----------



## JLoud

olle83 said:


> In this review Joshua said at timecode 10:35 that he didn't like the vocals that much, they seemed unnatural according to him.
> I have to ask you guys what do you think about this issue? Is there a problem or not?



I don't feel the vocals are unnatural. Maybe slightly recessed, but otherwise just fine. The TC is the least V shaped in my opinion. The CC had some issues with the mid-range. I felt they were to thin for lack of a better description. The TC pretty much fixed that issue. They may not be my favorite for vocals(the LCD-4 is)but they are no slouch either.


----------



## JLoud

I really don't find my self agreeing with the reviews of Joshua. His tastes are obviously not aligned with mine. I find many reviewers get too hung up on price. They look at the price and it colors everything they hear. But at this level in our hobby, Value is a relative term. The absolute best ain't cheap.


----------



## InstantSilence

tubelvr1 said:


> I’ve been a head-fi abyss thread follower for some time and decided to share my simple yet effective way to make the head band more comfortable. Just cut out some memory foam the shape of the band and attach with double stick tape on the bottom. It will completely change the ergonomics.


Please show us a picture


----------



## tubelvr1

Will look much better with black memory foam. Mine is blue. 


 But this works really well for me. Just stuck on with 3m double tape.


----------



## tholt (Oct 18, 2020)

There really are no great solutions if you need the headphones raised, since there is no way to adjust the headband vertically. If they fit as-is, great. If they don't, you have to get creative. I do hope they address in the future, to me it's a pretty big issue with the current design. I had suggested at one point that instead of having the O-ring only able to loop around from bottom to top, maybe they could modify it so it could also loop from top to bottom. That would at least give two settings and be way more universally useful.

I use two pads because I have them, but this solution obviously works with one as well. Instead of looping the O-ring around, I wedge it into the bottom of the U piece and hold it there with a strong zip tie as shown. This raises the headphone to the perfect height for me. I've been doing it this way since I've owned them, works great.

Edit: this is also way easier on the O rings, since they have far less tension than looping around.


----------



## Blueoris

olle83 said:


> In this review Joshua said at timecode 10:35 that he didn't like the vocals that much, they seemed unnatural according to him.
> I have to ask you guys what do you think about this issue? Is there a problem or not?



I think there is not a problem with TC's, although I haven't listen to them.

I bought my phi CC from a guy that had both the CC and the TC. He has TOLT DACs and amps.

He preferred the vocal presentation in CC's better than in TC, however he said his TC has more raw performance, and that he preferred them over the CC for large symphonies.

He also said people with mid-fi sources / amplifiers / cables would need higher performance components to note or even enjoy the difference.

The experience of another person with both the CC and the TC confirmed that last point: He said that he couldn't put his TC and relax in the music as he do with his CC, and he put the TC on sale but then ended up changing his mind and started looking for better components.

I believe people in this forum that says TC are a step (or ten) ahead of CC, but that doesn't mean that TC would be always the preferred headphone.

Note: I just watched Joshua video after I wrote the lines above, and I see that the first line comment from the person I got the CC from are quite aligned to Joshua opinion.


----------



## tholt

I just watched the video. Not sure what he means at around 4:30 when he says you need to readjust the headphone every time you use them? We all know that's false, unless you collapse the headphone when not in use.

I will say the lighting and the closeup shots are pretty cool. Stuff like this is nice:

 

Also cool that he filmed at Abyss. Would love to see their factory/warehouse/HQ. That would be an interesting video.


----------



## vonBaron

@tholt there some sneek peeks in heir factory/warehouse/HQ, just watch Abyss YT channel.


----------



## ken6217

olle83 said:


> In this review Joshua said at timecode 10:35 that he didn't like the vocals that much, they seemed unnatural according to him.
> I have to ask you guys what do you think about this issue? Is there a problem or not?



What you put in you get out. The TC is revealing and as you up your level of equipment, and you be rewarded. I have used my TC's with a variety of high end DAC's and amps, and get a different presentation depending on the equipment. They all sound good, but different.


----------



## vonBaron

I can confirm that in my Phi CC midrange is litte dry compared to my Final D8000, so vocal can sound little lifeless.


----------



## simorag

A footage from the ‘50s of a legendary violinist playing one of the most popular romantic concertos, a vocal jazz club soirée recording, a collection of tracks for documentaries from an obscure Italian avant-garde composer: how the AB-1266 makes experiencing such diverse music so glorious?

Of course, it does it in many ways, but one key point here is – for me – the spectacular handling of the _space_ where the music is played in. And I mean both the physical venue space / environment, and the perceptive space around our ears where the music is rendered.





Heifetz at his best, a miracle 1957 recording from RCA Victor’s super-talented Lewis Layton.

The main violin and the whole string section tone and texture are on the dark / smooth side, while retaining good clarity and detail. Not as clean-ical and transparent as the most technically accurate modern recordings, but it draws you in with its organic consistency.

The soundstage here is extremely wide, yet very cohesive and atmospheric. Through the AB-1266, the positioning, layering, scale of instruments is outstanding, and the dynamics is exceptional.

It triggers some of the physical and emotional reactions I recall from real concert hall listening in a rather magical way.





In Companion, the feeling of the live recording in a club venue is very obvious (even before hearing people clapping their hands LOL) in terms of size, decay characteristics and weight / buoyancy of the notes, although Patricia vocals are relatively forward as from a typical close-mike capture.

Double bass in the first two tracks is deep, well-articulated and harmonically very rich, yet not overwhelming, and Barber’s voice is clear and sensuous, if just a touch on the hot side on some ‘s’ or ‘t’.

Also in this recording, the out-of-your-head experience assured by the AB-1266 makes the trick of transporting me at the event, where all the players are projected in a spacious 3D scene as I would expect them in a typical band arrangement in front of me.





This is an album from 1976, of a much respected, little known, Italian composer, a collection of music for naturalistic documentaries.

Through the Abyss, this minimalistic, serial music breathes in a vast and deep soundscape, and the immersive effect is captivating since the first notes. The microdetails are easily resolved and presented in all their added value as a natural and essential ingredient of the whole musical message.

Again, the scale of the musical environment is enormous and – this time – enveloping, with plenty of air all around you.

I am not sure if it is just a fixation I have, but I feel that space rendering, together with scale and dynamics, in hifi is at least as important as tone and timbre accuracy, or frequency extension, and the AB-1266 delivers in spades!


----------



## jlbrach

you are listening to some glorious music well recorded with lots of space and dynamics


----------



## Roasty

The biologa animal e vegetale album was unlike anything I've ever heard before. Amazing! Thanks for sharing that!


----------



## yagislav

Anybody ever tried the 1266TC with the McIntosh MHA100/150/MXA70? I have spent the past two months or so comparing the MHA with the XI Formula S/Powerman combo, and to my ears the 1266TC sound better with the McIntosh!


----------



## Slim1970

yagislav said:


> Anybody ever tried the 1266TC with the McIntosh MHA100/150/MXA70? I have spent the past two months or so comparing the MHA with the XI Formula S/Powerman combo, and to my ears the 1266TC sound better with the McIntosh!


I say go with what sounds good to your ears. The XI Formula S/Powerman combo is not the only amp that the TC sound good on.


----------



## makan

yagislav said:


> Anybody ever tried the 1266TC with the McIntosh MHA100/150/MXA70? I have spent the past two months or so comparing the MHA with the XI Formula S/Powerman combo, and to my ears the 1266TC sound better with the McIntosh!


Interesting.  Is that out of the MHA100 speaker taps or the headphone output?  Were you using the McIntosh DAC?


----------



## MatW

So I tried to cancel my order for the new headband, but they did not see my email in time and the headband just arrived. Just as I feared based on your comments, it is waaaaay too tight. I am not hanging it by the headband, so it will not extend much, if at all. Apart from this, it does feel very pretty comfortable, the padding I mean. And it looks better than my ZMF pilot pad mod. So I guess I'll be shopping for O rings as well..


----------



## Litlgi74

MatW said:


> So I tried to cancel my order for the new headband, but they did not see my email in time and the headband just arrived. Just as I feared based on your comments, it is waaaaay too tight. I am not hanging it by the headband, so it will not extend much, if at all. Apart from this, it does feel very pretty comfortable, the padding I mean. And it looks better than my ZMF pilot pad mod. So I guess I'll be shopping for O rings as well..


Selfishly... I'm glad to hear this. Maybe when I get mine... My ear pads will no longer rest on my ears.


----------



## MatW

Litlgi74 said:


> Selfishly... I'm glad to hear this. Maybe when I get mine... My ear pads will no longer rest on my ears.


It will be higher probably, but also more narrow, i.e. you won't be able to extend it out as far as you may be used to. I'm repeating myself: they should provide multiple sizes, because there is no way that one size will be OK for everyone. And going by the comments I have read, chances are that the current (very tight) version will not be OK for most.


----------



## jlbrach

the abyss team ought to offer different sizes of the o rings


----------



## InstantSilence

jlbrach said:


> the abyss team ought to offer different sizes of the o rings


Its cheap of them not to have!


----------



## spacelion2077 (Oct 21, 2020)

Does anyone know how long the 1266 repair's turnover time is at JPS labs? I sent it to them to evaluate/repair last week and haven't heard anything since. Do they email you for notification before they ship your headphone back?


----------



## JLoud

I think Abyss might start putting a variety of o-rings with the new headband. I assume they didn't anticipate the issues people are having. It would cost very little and probably save money by not having to address the issue over and over. I am sure they will comment soon on what they plan to do.


----------



## paradoxper

Or you could stop whining, spend the $8 and buy them yourselves and get your exact ideal fit.

https://www.amazon.com/216-Buna-N-Ring-Durometer-Round/dp/B0051XY4AS

Jesus christ.


----------



## fiiom11pro

paradoxper said:


> Or you could stop whining, spend the $8 and buy them yourselves and get your exact ideal fit.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/216-Buna-N-Ring-Durometer-Round/dp/B0051XY4AS
> 
> Jesus christ.




cock rings lol.


----------



## MatW

Not all of us live in the USA, nor know O ring sizes by heart.    I'll pay a visit to my local hardware store tomorrow and I'm sure I'll get it sorted out. My suggestion of including multiple sizes was meant to save others this hassle. Btw, not sure we need to bring JC into this.


----------



## paradoxper

fiiom11pro said:


> cock rings lol.


We don't want to affect the wearing conditions and resale value of our Abyss' now.


----------



## paradoxper

MatW said:


> Not all of us live in the USA, nor know O ring sizes by heart.    I'll pay a visit to my local hardware store tomorrow and I'm sure I'll get it sorted out. My suggestion of including multiple sizes was meant to save others this hassle. Btw, not sure we need to bring JC into this.


There was already a previous page linked. Ya'll ****ing lazy.


----------



## JLoud (Oct 21, 2020)

I'm very happy with my Abyss. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't expect a little extra when buying a $5000 headphone or $199 headband. As far as your attitude towards those who ask for the extra, I think it speaks volumes as to the type of person who expresses it. Civility costs nothing. Hostility costs us all.


----------



## paradoxper

JLoud said:


> I'm very happy with my Abyss. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't expect a little extra when buying a $5000 headphone or $250 headband. As far as your attitude towards those who ask for the extra, I think it speaks volumes as to the type of person who expresses it. Civility costs nothing. Hostility costs us all.


I don't disagree. However, the issue is one of wear and break-in and thus thorough time. I don't even think JPS gave sufficient time for QC, er, sufficient stretch. 
The fix is simple enough you don't have to drag the conversation on and on. 

Oh, how the world must be difficult for those whom can't handle a few brash words.


----------



## tholt

paradoxper said:


> I don't disagree. However, the issue is one of wear and break-in and thus thorough time. I don't even think JPS gave sufficient time for QC, er, sufficient stretch.
> The fix is simple enough you don't have to drag the conversation on and on.
> 
> Oh, how the world must be difficult for those whom can't handle a few brash words.


No, you're just being an a-hole

Costs nothing for Abyss to toss in a few different O-rings, now that they know what their customers are going through in the real world. This is feedback for Abyss IMO. It's what the forums are for, among other things.


----------



## JLoud

paradoxper said:


> I don't disagree. However, the issue is one of wear and break-in and thus thorough time. I don't even think JPS gave sufficient time for QC, er, sufficient stretch.
> The fix is simple enough you don't have to drag the conversation on and on.
> 
> Oh, how the world must be difficult for those whom can't handle a few brash words.


The world is as difficult as it is because of attitudes like yours. Last time I will comment on the subject.


----------



## 35FLE

Spending a few dollars on O rings is better than replacing the whole headband. Im glad Abyss went with the new design.


----------



## JLoud (Oct 25, 2020)

Agreed the new design is definitely better. The old headband fits me just right. However when it needs to be replaced I will happily buy the new one. And I have o-ring kits with every size I might ever need. Didn’t buy them for a headphone but an added bonus I guess.


----------



## jlbrach

I simply do not know what size o ring is needed, the 8 dollars isnt the issue...what size o ring would do the trick?


----------



## Ciggavelli

jlbrach said:


> I simply do not know what size o ring is needed, the 8 dollars isnt the issue...what size o ring would do the trick?


I have the same question.  I guess I'll just buy several sizes.  Hopefully something works


----------



## ken6217

fiiom11pro said:


> cock rings lol.



Not all of us need them. LOL.


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> I simply do not know what size o ring is needed, the 8 dollars isnt the issue...what size o ring would do the trick?


Here ya go.

https://www.amazon.com/Orion-Motor-...ted+o-ring&qid=1603321279&s=industrial&sr=1-1


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Or you could stop whining, spend the $8 and buy them yourselves and get your exact ideal fit.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/216-Buna-N-Ring-Durometer-Round/dp/B0051XY4AS
> 
> Jesus christ.



+1 I wish I could give this 1000 likes.

This reminds me how pissed off I am about my car. I cant believe that the dealership let me leave with just the tires on the car. Why didn't they throw in summer performance tires and winter tires as well. Don't they know there is more than one season a year?? Not only that, I got as flat on one of my tires. What kind of crappy rubber are they using? I know I hit a pothole but the tires really should be indestructible.


----------



## jlbrach

not even sure what the car discussion is about


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> not even sure what the car discussion is about



I was being facetious about the realistic and unrealistic expectations of a purchase.


----------



## jlbrach

I dont think having a ring that fits most people is unrealistic at all...the old one fit fine


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> I dont think having a ring that fits most people is unrealistic at all...the old one fit fine



I agree with that.

My point is that some people on the forum will never be happy. If Joe included 10 different size O-rings, someone would complain why didn’t he include 11? When people complained that the O Rings broke and they were forced to buy a brand new headband, what did Joe do? He came out with a new headband where you can unscrew it and change the O Rings. True to form now people complain that headband is not comfortable.

The headphone sounds fantastic, and is it infinitely adjustable for the size your head and the sound signature that you want. Maybe some people are outside the norm. You can’t account for everything. On the other hand maybe some people are ust too picky and can never be pleased no matter what.


----------



## koven

I guess I am in the minority because I have no issues w/ the new rings or headband. It dramatically improved my fit and comfort because the original headband sat too low for me and created hotspots after a while. So the new thicker padding alleviated both my issues and dare I say it's nearly as comfortable as Susvara now.


----------



## Ciggavelli

koven said:


> I guess I am in the minority because I have no issues w/ the new rings or headband. It dramatically improved my fit and comfort because the original headband sat too low for me and created hotspots after a while. So the new thicker padding alleviated both my issues and dare I say _*it's nearly as comfortable as Susvara now.*_


Blasphemy


----------



## jlbrach

ken6217 said:


> I agree with that.
> 
> My point is that some people on the forum will never be happy. If Joe included 10 different size O-rings, someone would complain why didn’t he include 11? When people complained that the O Rings broke and they were forced to buy a brand new headband, what did Joe do? He came out with a new headband where you can unscrew it and change the O Rings. True to form now people complain that headband is not comfortable.
> 
> The headphone sounds fantastic, and is it infinitely adjustable for the size your head and the sound signature that you want. Maybe some people are outside the norm. You can’t account for everything. On the other hand maybe some people are ust too picky and can never be pleased no matter what.


but he included one that is giving tons of people who upgraded the pads trouble myself included...I speak as one who has owned each version of the 1266...the diana phi and the formula s /powerman so I am a lover of the product!!


----------



## Slim1970

koven said:


> I guess I am in the minority because I have no issues w/ the new rings or headband. It dramatically improved my fit and comfort because the original headband sat too low for me and created hotspots after a while. So the new thicker padding alleviated both my issues and dare I say it's nearly as comfortable as Susvara now.


Same here, compared to the old headband the new one is considerably more comfortable. Comfort as a whole I can't say it reaches Susvara levels, but it's a big leap forward for the AB-1266's. I have no problem now wearing them for hours.


----------



## MatW (Nov 15, 2020)

The local hardware store did not have larger O rings, but I found a good Dutch website with a minimum order quantity of 10 per size. For those of you in Europe, what you're looking for is called "O-ring NBR70 shore A", with a thickness of 3 mm (4 mm is probably too thick). The types 213, 215, etc are meaningless in Europe. You need to choose an internal diameter. The internal diameters suggested by Joe work out to 27 to 28.5 mm. The stock one is ~24 mm. I ordered 25, 27, 28, and 30 mm. I'll report back on what works best for me. It will vary for you, of course, so I would suggest getting a range as well. Assuming these work well, I will have a few spare sets, which I'll be happy to mail to fellow headfiers.

EDIT: see this post for the update.


----------



## attmci

Why do you guys need $8 faucet repair rings for your $5000 headphone?


----------



## Ciggavelli

attmci said:


> Why do you guys need $8 faucet repair rings for your $5000 headphone?


Because Abyss didn’t include different size o-rings with their new $200 headband  

I bought the o-ring set that somebody posted before. Hopefully I’ll find a good fit


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> Because Abyss didn’t include different size o-rings with their new $200 headband
> 
> I bought the o-ring set that somebody posted before. Hopefully I’ll find a good fit


----------



## rsbrsvp (Oct 23, 2020)

Can someone please explain what these o-rings for and where and how they are attached to the TC?


----------



## henryxiao

Just got my 1266 phi TC yesterday!  I have a really big head, so even I pull the headband all the way to its longest position, earpads still squeeze my face so bad. I tried to bend the L shaped aluminum frame a few degrees toward outside like what Joe did in abyss youtube channel, and this helps. 

I noticed some unpleasant brightness sound around 7khz I guess, does anyone experience the same thing? I'm thinking if I change the gain setting on Formula S from high gain to low gain or make the earpads looser to my face would help?...

Thanks!


----------



## olle83

henryxiao said:


> Just got my 1266 phi TC yesterday!  I have a really big head, so even I pull the headband all the way to its longest position, earpads still squeeze my face so bad. I tried to bend the L shaped aluminum frame a few degrees toward outside like what Joe did in abyss youtube channel, and this helps.
> 
> I noticed some unpleasant brightness sound around 7khz I guess, does anyone experience the same thing? I'm thinking if I change the gain setting on Formula S from high gain to low gain or make the earpads looser to my face would help?...
> 
> Thanks!


Great to hear!
Well, are they any good tell us everything?


----------



## Bonddam

I got two


----------



## stemiki

Since this story about the o-rings seems endless .... I would like to point out a simple and very valid way on how to repair it with a simple do-it-yourself method.

I adopted it while waiting for the arrival of the new band, while one of these had broken. Just a needle and sewing thread and with a little patience you can sew the o-ring.
In reality it becomes so good that it won't break anymore.
Then by turning it under the band you can no longer see anything.


----------



## henryxiao

olle83 said:


> Great to hear!
> Well, are they any good tell us everything?



Definitely love this headphone, everything is so much better than my HD800 sdr mod except the problem I'm trying to solve right now( treble brightness around 7khz... feels similar to HD800 without the mod, maybe even brighter)


----------



## ken6217

henryxiao said:


> Definitely love this headphone, everything is so much better than my HD800 sdr mod except the problem I'm trying to solve right now( treble brightness around 7khz... feels similar to HD800 without the mod, maybe even brighter)



Did you try adjusting the arms back-and-forth as well as pulling in and  pushing oit the arms? It will change the sound.


----------



## jlbrach

I was able to procure new o rings on amazon and it has made a huge difference loosening things up and helping it sit a bit lower on my head with my ears inside mich more comfortable.....I got one of the packs with several different sizes...


----------



## InstantSilence

jlbrach said:


> I was able to procure new o rings on amazon and it has made a huge difference loosening things up and helping it sit a bit lower on my head with my ears inside mich more comfortable.....I got one of the packs with several different sizes...


Can you link me up plz?


----------



## jlbrach

InstantSilence said:


> Can you link me up plz?


*BOLET Metric Universal O Ring Service Assortment Set Kit 407PCS 32 Sizes Nitrile Rubber O Rings Sealing Gasket Washer for Plumbing, Automotive and Faucet Repair (407)*


----------



## Blueoris (Oct 24, 2020)

Would be absurd - or even worst, dangerous - to power the 1266 Phi's with a power amp rated at 350 watts RMS @ 8ohms?

Note:

The source I have puts only 0.937 V into 15 ohms ( 58.5 mW into 15 ohms).
From the speaker outputs of a 110 watts integrated amplifier I have, both volume levels (source volume and integrated amp volume) have to be above 12 o'clock so I get a good level of sound.


----------



## typalder (Oct 24, 2020)

Blueoris said:


> Would be absurd - or even worst, dangerous - to power the 1266 Phi's with a power amp rated at 350 watts RMS @ 8ohms?
> 
> Note:
> 
> ...


i run my 1266 with a 240 @ 8 ohms mcintosh speaker amp from the speaker taps without an issue. my opinion: go for it  

the mcintosh runs around 40% while listening btw


----------



## gonzalo1004es

Blueoris said:


> Would be absurd - or even worst, dangerous - to power the 1266 Phi's with a power amp rated at 350 watts RMS @ 8ohms?
> 
> Note:
> 
> ...


When I had my Phi CC, I drove them from my 500W/8Ohms Hypex power amp, no problem whatsoever, outstanding sound!


----------



## Litlgi74

Blueoris said:


> Would be absurd - or even worst, dangerous - to power the 1266 Phi's with a power amp rated at 350 watts RMS @ 8ohms?
> 
> Note:
> 
> ...


I use an integrated amp that powers my TC's at 125 watts of channel at 8 ohms... No issues

Don't disconnect your headphones while the amp is on. 
Turn the volume down before you turn the amp off.
If your amp has one... Use it's volume limiter.
Enjoy!


----------



## vonBaron

Anyone tries WyWires Platinum calbe with AB-1266?


----------



## InstantSilence

vonBaron said:


> Anyone tries WyWires Platinum calbe with AB-1266?


No 
I had tried it with the 4z and it was horrible to me. Was just not good at all
But the form factor and weight is infinetly better than the stock poopy jps labs cable..


----------



## vonBaron

Why? With MrSpeakers/Dan Clark headphones its great.


----------



## attmci

rsbrsvp said:


> Can someone please explain what these o-rings for and where and how they are attached to the TC?


It makes the 1266 sounds much better than using the stock o-rings.


----------



## jlbrach

for me the o ring leaves the band a bit more slack and allows it to sit better in terms of positioning for my ears


----------



## Litlgi74

attmci said:


> It makes the 1266 sounds much better than using the stock o-rings.


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## ken6217

Litlgi74 said:


> HAHAHAHAHA



Only the copper ones. Silver is too bright.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I can't stop listening to this band.  








Sounds great out of the TCs too


----------



## Jon L

Good stuff.  I can't stop listening to this female lead.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I was hating on the new headband before, but I must admit, it's a better fit than the old one.  I had on the TCs for several hours today, and I didn't get the hot spot on top my head.  With the old headband, I could only wear it for like an hour and a half.  Now, I can forget that I have on the TCs and just enjoy album after album.

I have changed my mind on it.  So, sorry @Joe Skubinski for my initial comments.  You were right, it grows on you.

I still think it looks horrible, but that really doesn't matter when it's on your head.  When my new O-Rings arrive hopefully it will fit even better (and maybe it will stop bunching up)


----------



## jlbrach

I think the headband is definitely better I just had problems with the o ring making it too tight and difficult to wear, with the new o ring it is excellent


----------



## Joe Skubinski

np, I know change can suck.




Ciggavelli said:


> I was hating on the new headband before, but I must admit, it's a better fit than the old one.  I had on the TCs for several hours today, and I didn't get the hot spot on top my head.  With the old headband, I could only wear it for like an hour and a half.  Now, I can forget that I have on the TCs and just enjoy album after album.
> 
> I have changed my mind on it.  So, sorry @Joe Skubinski for my initial comments.  You were right, it grows on you.


----------



## henryxiao

Yoooo guys, For O ring, the stock is R19, R22 and R23 fits me the best. Please don't go too far, since R23 already makes the headband touches the frame even at the widest setting of the frame, so really no reason to go bigger size.


----------



## henryxiao

ken6217 said:


> Did you try adjusting the arms back-and-forth as well as pulling in and  pushing oit the arms? It will change the sound.



I feel that changing the earpads and arm position influence the bass and soundstage a lot, but not much for the brightness...  I should say, it is sibilance for some instruments and some vocals bother me a lot(a lot of pain for my eardrum.....). I played Brahms and Beethoven violin concerto and the violin sounds perfect with no sibilance at all. 

Except for this annoying issue, I would say I love everything about TC lol 

Trying to figure it out now.... 
1. Anyone tried to DSP or EQ the 1266 phi TC?          I'm thinking to -3db @ 9khz or 11khz
2. I saw a mod from https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/new-abyss-ab-1266-v2-incoming.4163/page-4




I'm very surprised that looks like I am the only one who has this issue...... Maybe something wrong with my system...?   Surface pro6(fidilized)->mscaler->dave->formula s+powerman ... 

Thanks guys!


----------



## InstantSilence

henryxiao said:


> I feel that changing the earpads and arm position influence the bass and soundstage a lot, but not much for the brightness...  I should say, it is sibilance for some instruments and some vocals bother me a lot(a lot of pain for my eardrum.....). I played Brahms and Beethoven violin concerto and the violin sounds perfect with no sibilance at all.
> 
> Except for this annoying issue, I would say I love everything about TC lol
> 
> ...


I am very very sensitive to sibilance and spikes, expecially after 4khz
The TC is phenomenal that it can resolve calculus if yiu wanted to, without the sibilance 
I do however have many bad recordings that I love, I mean mp3, 128 horribly mastered stuff. I listen with thr TC on those too but definitely more sparingly as pain comes in after just a few tracks. 
Poop in is poop out. 
If course with quality masters or at least Tidal for example I have no issues. 
Some tracks are just built with spikes ect.


----------



## ken6217

henryxiao said:


> I feel that changing the earpads and arm position influence the bass and soundstage a lot, but not much for the brightness...  I should say, it is sibilance for some instruments and some vocals bother me a lot(a lot of pain for my eardrum.....). I played Brahms and Beethoven violin concerto and the violin sounds perfect with no sibilance at all.
> 
> Except for this annoying issue, I would say I love everything about TC lol
> 
> ...



Try the mod and let us know how it sounds.


----------



## henryxiao

InstantSilence said:


> I am very very sensitive to sibilance and spikes, expecially after 4khz
> The TC is phenomenal that it can resolve calculus if yiu wanted to, without the sibilance
> I do however have many bad recordings that I love, I mean mp3, 128 horribly mastered stuff. I listen with thr TC on those too but definitely more sparingly as pain comes in after just a few tracks.
> Poop in is poop out.
> ...



Are you also using formula S?  I'm thinking if I go to a tube amp that would make the treble brightness/sibilant disappear


----------



## InstantSilence

henryxiao said:


> Are you also using formula S?  I'm thinking if I go to a tube amp that would make the treble brightness/sibilant disappear


I am not!


----------



## mvvRAZ

I’ve only heard the 2018 Phi CC (waiting on a custom colored TC currently), but I wouldn’t say that vocals are sibilant on it - there’s a certain harshness to them, but it’s as a result of a treble peak that’s higher than the usual 6-8k that messes up vocals I believe - maybe somewhere above 11k?


----------



## MatW (Dec 3, 2020)

MatW said:


> The local hardware store did not have larger O rings, but I found a good Dutch website with a minimum order quantity of 10 per size. For those of you in Europe, what you're looking for is called "O-ring NBR70 shore A", with a thickness of 3 mm (4 mm is probably too thick). The types 213, 215, etc are meaningless in Europe. You need to choose an internal diameter. The internal diameters suggested by Joe work out to 27 to 28.5 mm. The stock one is ~24 mm. I ordered 25, 27, 28, and 30 mm. I'll report back on what works best for me. It will vary for you, of course, so I would suggest getting a range as well. Assuming these work well, I will have a few spare sets, which I'll be happy to mail to fellow headfiers.


Update: I am currently using the 30 mm version, which is ~6 mm wider than the stock version that comes with the new headband. Mind you, with my ears/head, I need the cups to be pretty low. With the 30 mm rings, I have about half a centimeter space left between the top of the headband and the frame. You can't go much beyond 30 mm, I think, and most of you will probably want to use smaller rings. In terms of thickness, in retrospect I think a 4 mm ring may fit as well, with added strength as a benefit. Let's see how long the 3 mm version lasts. (Update within the update: 4 mm is too thick and won't fit).

With the new headband and the larger o-ring, the comfort has dramatically improved compared to the old headband.  I also do not (yet) experience this 'bunching up' effect that others have mentioned.


----------



## jlbrach

InstantSilence said:


> I am very very sensitive to sibilance and spikes, expecially after 4khz
> The TC is phenomenal that it can resolve calculus if yiu wanted to, without the sibilance
> I do however have many bad recordings that I love, I mean mp3, 128 horribly mastered stuff. I listen with thr TC on those too but definitely more sparingly as pain comes in after just a few tracks.
> Poop in is poop out.
> ...


if you are going to listen to 128 mp3 with an abyss tc not only doesn it make little sense but it almost has to sound abysmal....it is not true that using TOTL equipment with low quality mp3 will make it sound better...in fact it will make it sound worse by making obvious its flaws


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> if you are going to listen to 128 mp3 with an abyss tc not only doesn it make little sense but it almost has to sound abysmal....it is not true that using TOTL equipment with low quality mp3 will make it sound better...in fact it will make it sound worse by making obvious its flaws



Very true. I remember many years ago when I got my first nice twichannel system, I couldn’t believe how everything sounded so real. Unfortunately I could only listen to music that was very well recorded, but didn’t like because everything I did like sounded like crap because of how poorly they were recorded.


----------



## InstantSilence

jlbrach said:


> if you are going to listen to 128 mp3 with an abyss tc not only doesn it make little sense but it almost has to sound abysmal....it is not true that using TOTL equipment with low quality mp3 will make it sound better...in fact it will make it sound worse by making obvious its flaws


Yes I know, I know, I'm not here to get doctored on what I should do or not do with whatever I have. 
There are some recordings that I love recorded long ago, at a local shop and the experience is one of nostalgia and not high rez bliss. 
With that said I still like to listen to them with thr TC as that's all I have an can afford right now. 
I even used the *crap in, crap out * example in my post regarding to the 128kbs mp3... I guess you missed it by a mile.


----------



## jlbrach

nobody is "doctoring" you...if you put up comments you will get responses and there is no malice intended


----------



## Bonddam

I get away with AAC off Apple Music because I listen to EDM which is not hard to record to make sound good. Once I put on some other type of music it might sound poor.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Throw some tubes in your chain and crappy quality songs sound somewhat less crappy


----------



## Bonddam

I got big tubes making me love the TC.


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> I got big tubes making me love the TC.



Thats what she said.


----------



## Bonddam

Damn skippy


----------



## Bonddam

Only problem I have with the TC is I need to sit still in same positions each time with the headphone pushed forward and toed in. If I move my head the bass moves to one side only so it's not my sit back and relax headphone.


----------



## mat.1

Bonddam,

Do you set Chord Hugo TT2 as Dac or as Amp ? 
I find it, if i set as Dac the volume on the WA33 to TC is already loud on 8 o'clock.


----------



## Bonddam

The TT2 as a dac. The highest I go is close to noon. On my setup it’s enjoyable at 8. My Empyrean is only enjoyable at higher volumes where TC has a full sound at all levels.


----------



## mat.1

Bonddam said:


> The TT2 as a dac. The highest I go is close to noon. On my setup it’s enjoyable at 8. My Empyrean is only enjoyable at higher volumes where TC has a full sound at all levels.


Thanks,
i can not do it as Dac as the volume on woo is to loud , and chord output is 5v on xlr.
Woo suggest to lower the output, so i set as amp and lower the volume.


----------



## Bonddam

I never have volume issues. Only headphone that  has an issue is my Fostex 909 where anything past 8 is too loud.


----------



## 35FLE

Has anyone tried the ECP DSHA3F amp with the 1266?


----------



## paradoxper (Oct 27, 2020)

35FLE said:


> Has anyone tried the ECP DSHA3F amp with the 1266?


Will not properly drive the 1266.

You will have to wait for the DSHA4F which is in limbo due to Doug's supplier issues. At that, you might want to investigate his Copenhagen as an alternative.


----------



## makan

Just came back to the TC after a 3 week rotation with the diana phi and susvara, and the TC is still the king in terms of an overall hp.  Enjoy everyone!


----------



## henryxiao

henryxiao said:


> I feel that changing the earpads and arm position influence the bass and soundstage a lot, but not much for the brightness...  I should say, it is sibilance for some instruments and some vocals bother me a lot(a lot of pain for my eardrum.....). I played Brahms and Beethoven violin concerto and the violin sounds perfect with no sibilance at all.
> 
> Except for this annoying issue, I would say I love everything about TC lol
> 
> ...



I found the issue last night.... Surprisingly, The brightness / sibilant or hardness that I mentioned, actually from 1-1.5 khz.....  ( ???? probably my ears need surgery)  I found out by listening to the 500hz all the way to 20khz sine wave. 

Simply EQ   -3db, Q value 3, @ 1khz or 1.5khz, problem solved. Even some mp3 tracks are totally fine now. 

I'm very happy and totally satisfied with the TC sound now : )


----------



## InstantSilence

henryxiao said:


> I found the issue last night.... Surprisingly, The brightness / sibilant or hardness that I mentioned, actually from 1-1.5 khz.....  ( ???? probably my ears need surgery)  I found out by listening to the 500hz all the way to 20khz sine wave.
> 
> Simply EQ   -3db, Q value 3, @ 1khz or 1.5khz, problem solved. Even some mp3 tracks are totally fine now.
> 
> I'm very happy and totally satisfied with the TC sound now : )


Nice you found a fix, it seems that it would make thr mids even more recessed


----------



## gonzalo1004es

henryxiao said:


> I found the issue last night.... Surprisingly, The brightness / sibilant or hardness that I mentioned, actually from 1-1.5 khz.....  ( ???? probably my ears need surgery)  I found out by listening to the 500hz all the way to 20khz sine wave.
> 
> Simply EQ   -3db, Q value 3, @ 1khz or 1.5khz, problem solved. Even some mp3 tracks are totally fine now.
> 
> I'm very happy and totally satisfied with the TC sound now : )


Abyss (both Phi and TC) have a marked peak around 1-1.5KHz: 
https://www.hifinews.com/content/abyss-ab-1266-phi-tc-headphones-lab-report


----------



## henryxiao

gonzalo1004es said:


> Abyss (both Phi and TC) have a marked peak around 1-1.5KHz:
> https://www.hifinews.com/content/abyss-ab-1266-phi-tc-headphones-lab-report



Right, and based on the measurement from this forum: http://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=21753&start=930#p759802

(The measurement is Phi not TC)




and compare with the TC measurement you shared:




Maybe should EQ @1250hz,  -3db, Q value 3 to be more precise.


----------



## gonzalo1004es

henryxiao said:


> Right, and based on the measurement from this forum: http://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=21753&start=930#p759802
> 
> (The measurement is Phi not TC)
> 
> ...


The 1KHz peak was my biggest concern with these headphones, as it is found not in the harmonics, but in the register of many (if not most) acoustics instruments, and therefore it affects their timbre. I sold my Phi CC headphones some weeks ago, but I used to EQ the 1KHz peak with a -6dB point and also added a +3dB eq point around 5KHz, as I found those two spots as the most problematic.


----------



## henryxiao

gonzalo1004es said:


> The 1KHz peak was my biggest concern with these headphones, as it is found not in the harmonics, but in the register of many (if not most) acoustics instruments, and therefore it affects their timbre. I sold my Phi CC headphones some weeks ago, but I used to EQ the 1KHz peak with a -6dB point and also added a +3dB eq point around 5KHz, as I found those two spots as the most problematic.



My goal is to reduce the brightness without touching too much of the original sound... As you said, that would affect the timbre of the instrument...  
*1/2 Octave Bandwidth: Q = 2.871* 
*1/3 Octave Bandwidth: Q = 4.36* 
*1/4 Octave Bandwidth: Q = 5.76
1/8 Octave Bandwidth: Q = 11.54* 

maybe I have to find the exact note that caused the brightness, then increase the Q value, thus minimize the influence.


----------



## gonzalo1004es

henryxiao said:


> My goal is to reduce the brightness without touching too much of the original sound... As you said, that would affect the timbre of the instrument...
> *1/2 Octave Bandwidth: Q = 2.871
> 1/3 Octave Bandwidth: Q = 4.36
> 1/4 Octave Bandwidth: Q = 5.76
> ...


I would just apply a -4dB EQ point at 1KHz or 1.5KHz and tried different Q settings until you find your prefered sound. In my opinion, anything below 1.5KHz does not make a headphone sound more or less bright, it directly affects the timbre in a more obvious way, in the case of that peak I think it makes the instrument sound more nasal, it was very obvious to me specially with grand piano recordings. If you want to make it sound less bright then you need to EQ higher, somewhere in the 4-8KHz spectrum.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I got my new O-rings.  I got a multipack of different sizes.  The size right above the stock O-ring works perfectly.  Everything fits like it did with the old headband.


----------



## henryxiao

henryxiao said:


> My goal is to reduce the brightness without touching too much of the original sound... As you said, that would affect the timbre of the instrument...
> *1/2 Octave Bandwidth: Q = 2.871
> 1/3 Octave Bandwidth: Q = 4.36
> 1/4 Octave Bandwidth: Q = 5.76
> ...



I encourage everyone to try this https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ 

I did an experiment listening from A5 --- C7# (880hz - 2217hz) to fine-tune. I would represent brightness/harshness using a scale from -3 to +3. I set A5(880hz) to be 0. Here are my results:

A5 880hz        0
A#5 932hz      0
B5 988hz        0
C6 1047hz    +1
C#6 1109hz  +1
D6 1175hz    +2
D#6 1256hz  +2
E6  1319hz   +3
F6   1397hz  +3  wow this note super intense
F#6 1480hz  +3
G6 1568hz    +2
A6  1760hz   +2
A#6 1865hz  +1
B6  1976hz   -1
C7  2093hz   0
C#7 2217hz  0

The peak is found----- F6!!   But everyone has different ears, so we may have different results...      I would apply EQ  ~1390hz  Q: 3  -3db


----------



## CreditingKarma

gonzalo1004es said:


> Abyss (both Phi and TC) have a marked peak around 1-1.5KHz:
> https://www.hifinews.com/content/abyss-ab-1266-phi-tc-headphones-lab-report




The 1266 is very hard to get accurate measurements with. How you have it set-up and the fit can drastically change the frequency response.


----------



## JLoud

Absolutely. I can change the sound just by moving it on my head. How you would get consistent measurements I have no idea. Especially ones that others could duplicate for comparison.


----------



## henryxiao

Guys I need help please! 

Here is the specification of the xi audio formula s amp: I use low gain.

*Output:* 6W @ 16 ohms
Input Z: 10 Kohms
Input Sensitivity: 1000 mV
*Gain:*Selectable 10 dB (Low) / 16 dB (High)
THD: 0.0006% @ 300 mW
Noise floor: -110 dBV
However, the chord dave I use generates 3V when using DAC mode....  which is so much higher than the 1V input sensitivity....

I guess that would cause clipping and distortion....?  Thanks!


----------



## CreditingKarma

henryxiao said:


> Guys I need help please!
> 
> Here is the specification of the xi audio formula s amp: I use low gain.
> 
> ...



I can feed the formula s with my bartok set at 6v with no issues I usually back it down about 10db on the bartok which provides about 3v and it sounds good no distortion to my ears. 

You can adjust the daves output to and use it as a pre. That is what I do with the Bartok as well it is nice to have remote volume control.


----------



## henryxiao

CreditingKarma said:


> I can feed the formula s with my bartok set at 6v with no issues I usually back it down about 10db on the bartok which provides about 3v and it sounds good no distortion to my ears.
> 
> You can adjust the daves output to and use it as a pre. That is what I do with the Bartok as well it is nice to have remote volume control.



Thanks so much! 

I'll set the formula s to its maximum volume, and use dave's digital pre amp to control volume.   You are right, doing this way even makes my life easier because of the remote control lol


----------



## JLoud

I would hesitate to set the Formula S, or any amp for that matter, to maximum volume. Better off setting it at 50-70% and adjusting the Dave from there. IMO


----------



## MatW

JLoud said:


> I would hesitate to set the Formula S, or any amp for that matter, to maximum volume. Better off setting it at 50-70% and adjusting the Dave from there. IMO


Agreed. I very occasionally use the Dave as preamp to be able to control the volume with the remote. With the volume on the Formula S low, 25% or so, I got some kind of distortion or clipping. When I put it at 50% or so it works well.


----------



## ken6217

MatW said:


> Agreed. I very occasionally use the Dave as preamp to be able to control the volume with the remote. With the volume on the Formula S low, 25% or so, I got some kind of distortion or clipping. When I put it at 50% or so it works well.



its not usually a good idea to have two volume controls in the chain. One should be maxed out and the other for attenuation.


----------



## ubs28

InstantSilence said:


> Yes I know, I know, I'm not here to get doctored on what I should do or not do with whatever I have.
> There are some recordings that I love recorded long ago, at a local shop and the experience is one of nostalgia and not high rez bliss.
> With that said I still like to listen to them with thr TC as that's all I have an can afford right now.
> I even used the *crap in, crap out * example in my post regarding to the 128kbs mp3... I guess you missed it by a mile.



Don't listen to these guys. High-end equipment with mp3 will sound a lot better. Think about it with TV's. If you feed 720p movie to a 4K TV, upscaling algorithms will make it 4K and depending on the quality of the TV, it is actually quite impressive. Even my girlfriend thought she was watching a real 4K movie once while it was just upscaling doing the magic.

Same with music. Really good DAC's are able to upscale the music to a much higher quality than it really is. If your DAC does a poor job at it, there is even software to upscale your music to a much higher quality. 

I'd be more concerned how the music was mixed and mastered rather than whether you listen from a 320kbps mp3 or a Flac file (some recordings are mastered differently I noticed with DSD / FLAC / mp3 versions ).


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 28, 2020)

ubs28 said:


> Don't listen to these guys. High-end equipment with mp3 will sound a lot better. Think about it with TV's. If you feed 720p movie to a 4K TV, upscaling algorithms will make it 4K and depending on the quality of the TV, it is actually quite impressive. Even my girlfriend thought she was watching a real 4K movie once while it was just upscaling doing the magic.
> 
> Same with music. Really good DAC's are able to upscale the music to a much higher quality than it really is. If your DAC does a poor job at it, there is even software to upscale your music to a much higher quality.
> 
> I'd be more concerned how the music was mixed and mastered rather than whether you listen from a 320kbps mp3 or a Flac file (some recordings are mastered differently I noticed with DSD / FLAC / mp3 versions ).


I agree with some of what you are saying, but if you do a side by side comparison of a song at 320kbps upscaled and then at 16/44 (or higher) the 320 mp3 will always sound worse (I have an m-scaler too and I’ve tested this, most recently with the new Napalm Death album ).


----------



## ken6217

Actually it is song dependent. It depends on the recording. I've heard some mp3's sound better than 24/92. A crappy recording is a crappy recording. You can't put lipstick on a pig.


----------



## ubs28 (Oct 28, 2020)

Ciggavelli said:


> I agree with some of what you are saying, but if you do a side by side comparison of a song at 320kbps upscaled and then at 16/44 (or higher) the 320 mp3 will always sound worse (I have an m-scaler too and I’ve tested this, most recently with the new Napalm Death album ).



To be honest, I have never heard significant differences when I exported my projects in .wav files or 320 kbps mp3. Or even compared it to the original project in Logic Pro.

So I am bit skeptical why the difference on platforms like Tidal is much more significant between different formats. Hence why I believe some formats are mixed and mastered differently.

And yeah, I enjoy listening to mp3 a lot more on my better equipment than from my Sony WH-1000XM3 or Apple AirPods.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ubs28 said:


> To be honest, I have never heard significant differences when I exported my projects in .wav files or 320 kbps mp3. Or even compared it to the original project in Logic Pro.
> 
> So I am bit skeptical why the difference on platforms like Tidal is much more significant between different formats. Hence why I believe some formats are mixed and mastered differently.


I hear big differences. I don’t want to say it is dependent on your chain, but, I mean, it kinda is.

Download an album at 320 and then at 16/44.  You will hear significant differences, but it may depend on your amp and dac. The Napalm Death album I mentioned is a good example. The 320 out of my Hugo 2 sounds better than out of my DAVE. (I have tested this)


----------



## ubs28

Ciggavelli said:


> I hear big differences. I don’t want to say it dependent on your chain, but, I mean, it kinda is.
> 
> Download an album at 320 and then at 16/44.  You will hear significant differences, but it may depend on your amp and dac. The Napalm Death album is a good example. The 320 out of my Hugo 2 sounds better than out of my DAVE.



As I mentioned, on Tidal I also hear big differences. But with my own music (which I produced), I did not hear such differences where the mixing and mastering was unchanged.

So that is why I believe that a lot of those "high-res" audio is mainly due to different mixing and mastering.


----------



## jlbrach

ubs28 said:


> Don't listen to these guys. High-end equipment with mp3 will sound a lot better. Think about it with TV's. If you feed 720p movie to a 4K TV, upscaling algorithms will make it 4K and depending on the quality of the TV, it is actually quite impressive. Even my girlfriend thought she was watching a real 4K movie once while it was just upscaling doing the magic.
> 
> Same with music. Really good DAC's are able to upscale the music to a much higher quality than it really is. If your DAC does a poor job at it, there is even software to upscale your music to a much higher quality.
> 
> I'd be more concerned how the music was mixed and mastered rather than whether you listen from a 320kbps mp3 or a Flac file (some recordings are mastered differently I noticed with DSD / FLAC / mp3 versions ).


ummm no...listening to TOTL equipment and MP3 makes zero sense...dont waste your money there is a huge difference between mp3 and higher quality files...not if you listen on ear buds but for sure on an abyss TC


----------



## Blueoris

Very disappointed and saddened to see a broken O-ring when I picked up my Phi's CC today for a listening session.  Must had happened overnight. These have the original head band. What can I do now?


----------



## mvvRAZ

jlbrach said:


> ummm no...listening to TOTL equipment and MP3 makes zero sense...dont waste your money there is a huge difference between mp3 and higher quality files...not if you listen on ear buds but for sure on an abyss TC


+1 The 1266 is so outrageously detailed you absolutely do not want to be losing information because of a lossy format


----------



## spacelion2077

I just purchased the new headband, does anyone know how to replace the stretch rings on the new headband?


----------



## spacelion2077

Blueoris said:


> Very disappointed and saddened to see a broken O-ring when I picked up my Phi's CC today for a listening session.  Must had happened overnight. These have the original head band. What can I do now?



you will have to buy the new headband on Abyss website. The o ring on the old model are not replaceable.


----------



## JonathanKlein

spacelion2077 said:


> I just purchased the new headband, does anyone know how to replace the stretch rings on the new headband?



I haven't tried but appears you just remove the two screws.


----------



## JLoud

That is what the guitar pick is for. They send one with the new headband that you use to loosen the screws and insert the o ring.


----------



## spacelion2077

JonathanKlein said:


> I haven't tried but appears you just remove the two screws.



I'm asking this because the new o ring is kind of tight, Im thinking about getting a bigger o ring for the headband


----------



## JonathanKlein

spacelion2077 said:


> I'm asking this because the new o ring is kind of tight, Im thinking about getting a bigger o ring for the headband



I get it. You along with virtually everyone one else with the new headband


----------



## number1sixerfan

Blueoris said:


> Very disappointed and saddened to see a broken O-ring when I picked up my Phi's CC today for a listening session.  Must had happened overnight. These have the original head band. What can I do now?



It's so odd, that's exactly how it happened with mine as well--not during actual wear but in between listening sessions. I ordered a replacement a week or so ago, and used electrical tape and super glue as temp solution (super glue ends back together while inserted through headband, clamp/hold as it cures and then electrical tape over it and fix back on headphones). It's still holding on for dear life lol. Others have used rubber bands which probably is a better solution. GL.


----------



## InstantSilence

Anyone here that has also listened to Erlkonig iem? Curious to see how you compare its resolution with the TC I know it's an iem and a different class but the iem threads are praising its resolution.


----------



## MWeston

My O-rings came from Amazon and I don't even own the 1266 yet!   Have they ever put them on sale for black Friday or any other time?


----------



## Ciggavelli

MWeston said:


> My O-rings came from Amazon and I don't even own the 1266 yet!   Have they ever put them on sale for black Friday or any other time?


If you have a good relationship with your dealer, you can get it for $4500. I few months ago we compared how much we paid for the TCs. Several posters mentioned getting their TCs for $4500 from their dealers


----------



## MWeston

Ciggavelli said:


> If you have a good relationship with your dealer, you can get it for $4500. I few months ago we compared how much we paid for the TCs. Several posters mentioned getting their TCs for $4500 from their dealers


Unfortunately, every online dealer I have found in Canada is asking a little over the $4995 converted to CDN or hundreds more.  I'd love to hear from people who their US dealers are because going direct from the US is looking like the cheapest way to go.


----------



## InstantSilence

MWeston said:


> Unfortunately, every online dealer I have found in Canada is asking a little over the $4995 converted to CDN or hundreds more.  I'd love to hear from people who their US dealers are because going direct from the US is looking like the cheapest way to go.


I'll sell you mine for 4k,usd, used 4 months, have everything it came with originally, came stock with new headband


----------



## MWeston

I'm hesitant on the used stuff with their propensity to be difficult with warranty.


----------



## MatW (Oct 30, 2020)

koven said:


> I guess I am in the minority because I have no issues w/ the new rings or headband. It dramatically improved my fit and comfort because the original headband sat too low for me and created hotspots after a while. So the new thicker padding alleviated both my issues and dare I say it's nearly as comfortable as Susvara now.


I have to say... with the new headband (with the larger size O rings), I find the TC very comfortable now, and yes, I now find the comfort better than Susvara. The Susvara needs deeper pads to reclaim the number 1 spot in terms of comfort for me.. And I read in the Susvara thread that Dekoni is working on that... I say bring 'em on!


----------



## ken6217

There might be Black Friday deals. I purchased mine through Woo last year and got 10% off.


----------



## Bonddam

MatW said:


> Agreed. I very occasionally use the Dave as preamp to be able to control the volume with the remote. With the volume on the Formula S low, 25% or so, I got some kind of distortion or clipping. When I put it at 50% or so it works well.


They have clipping meters. My car audio days I used one to set the gains on my amps it measured 1k hz.


----------



## InstantSilence

https://centrance.com/hifi-m8/

I know it's portable but it does xlr out, and seems strong would it power the TC? Would love if it to power TC inside and I can use portable for iems


----------



## mvvRAZ

InstantSilence said:


> https://centrance.com/hifi-m8/
> 
> I know it's portable but it does xlr out, and seems strong would it power the TC? Would love if it to power TC inside and I can use portable for iems


Just looked it up now - if I understand correctly it is rated at 1.6W @75Ohms out of the XLR, which is on paper, very high. Should be sufficient to drive just about anything - the Romi BX2 is also super powerful, I'll be able to test the 1266TC with it in a few weeks and can update you then


----------



## Shini44

hey guys is Chord TTobby Speaker amp Good Enough to Drive Abyss Phi TC ? i want to use it with the Hugo TT2/M-Scaler Stack. i also wonder if this combo enough for Hifiman HE-6 as well.


----------



## 35FLE

Shini44 said:


> hey guys is Chord TTobby Speaker amp Good Enough to Drive Abyss Phi TC ? i want to use it with the Hugo TT2/M-Scaler Stack. i also wonder if this combo enough for Hifiman HE-6 as well.



The XLR outputs from the Hugo TT2 is good enough to power the TC.


----------



## 35FLE

With the new headband do you pull or unscrew the ends to change the O rings?


----------



## ken6217

Unscrew


----------



## stemiki

I'm selling two finished custom cables for Abyss.
If anyone is interested pm please.
A Forza Audio Works Noir HPC MKII (copper up occ) and an Invictus Cable series Aluminum (aluminum and silver).



Thanks for the attention.


----------



## vonBaron

Lazuli Ultra is good cable for 1266?


----------



## Abyss Headphones

‘Check out a recording made in-house, original song by a new local artist Sam Godus called ‘Math’...


----------



## Hoegaardener70

vonBaron said:


> Lazuli Ultra is good cable for 1266?



Sound-wise it is great. But the charme of a garden hose.


----------



## vonBaron

I wan't try this Lazuli Ultra but i fear that it can be bright becouse its hybrid of copper and silver.


----------



## vonBaron

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Sound-wise it is great. But the charme of a garden hose.


I see you have it, can you compere it to stock?
I wan't try this Lazuli Ultra but i fear that it can be bright becouse its hybrid of copper and silver.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Nov 5, 2020)

vonBaron said:


> I see you have it, can you compere it to stock?
> I wan't try this Lazuli Ultra but i fear that it can be bright becouse its hybrid of copper and silver.



I sold it. I do not recall any brightness specifically, but I do remember a full-bodied bass and nice smoothness. Sound-wise, I absolutely had no complaints, but I do not buy aftermarket cables to deal with unwieldy inflexible thickness. Ergonomics are now an important parameter for me.


----------



## vonBaron

@Hoegaardener70 so in terms of SQ is significant upgrade compared to stock?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

vonBaron said:


> @Hoegaardener70 so in terms of SQ is significant upgrade compared to stock?


Upgrade - yes. Significant - no. But take this with a huge grain of salt ... since I do never hear a 'significant' difference with cables in the first place.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

vonBaron said:


> @Hoegaardener70 so in terms of SQ is significant upgrade compared to stock?



Just in case you did not see this yet, the most comprehensive review on the cable: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/da...byss-1266-phi.22915/reviews#item-review-19804


----------



## BrowChan

Hello my fellow Earthling mates. Not sure if someone already covered this, but I just wanted to provide a possible solution for the tightness of the TC after installing the new headband. You probably will save complaints and $8 too if you don't wanna buy the different sized O-rings, haha.

Yes, when I first got it, they were bent inwards and tight. So tight that it reminded me of the first time I wore the HEDDphone, and that felt like wearing Hercule's grip on a carnival festival. Makes Zer0 sense? Let's kindly moonwalk on.

*My Solution*: I just bent the TC outwards until they were not tight anymore. This would obviously stretch the O-rings, but Abyss's site (2nd paragraph under "Buy it now") says that it is fine as long as the stretch is under about 8 cm (or 3 inches) in length. The way to bend it is shown here (just scroll down to find the video).
As for the ears hanging low, I noticed a change in length once I started hanging the HPs by their headband...just as Joe suggested in one of his earlier posts. If my ears are still low, I'll just nuzzle the HPs towards my head (from its head, of course) until I get a proper fit.

Hope this helps!


----------



## vonBaron

I just buy that Lazuli Ultra, hope it will be worth.


----------



## MatW

vonBaron said:


> I just buy that Lazuli Ultra, hope it will be worth.


Weren't you going for a Superconductor cable? I thought they cost about the same, about $2k?


----------



## vonBaron

No it cost 3k$...
So it's pass for me.


----------



## MatW

vonBaron said:


> No it cost 3k$...
> So it's pass for me.


Ah ok... Congrats on the new purchase then!


----------



## Sonic Guild

I am in between the Diana Phi and the new1266. Is it true that Diana Phi offers 90% of the 1266?

Money is not an issue but I am too scared of the 1266 ergonomics.
Will I be able to sit on a recliner leaning back with issues? I have been told that the 1266 requires sitting straight because they don’t clamp on the head and every movement will change the cups positions which will affect the sound.

I don’t understand the philosophy behind the 1266, if the freq response changes based on the position of cups, how come you can get the same sound every time you move.

I am considering the 1266 because I am a two channels system guy and soundstage + imaging are my priority. This is why I didn’t consider the Meze Empyrean, because I hate small soundstage associated with headphones in general. 

Am I in the right direction in considering the 1266 or the Diana Phi?


----------



## MatW

Sonic Guild said:


> I am in between the Diana Phi and the new1266. Is it true that Diana Phi offers 90% of the 1266?
> 
> Money is not an issue but I am too scared of the 1266 ergonomics.
> Will I be able to sit on a recliner leaning back with issues? I have been told that the 1266 requires sitting straight because they don’t clamp on the head and every movement will change the cups positions which will affect the sound.
> ...


You can make the 1266 as tight or loose as you want. (But yes, it will impact the sound somewhat.) Yes, I would say you are on the right track, and I would definitely check out the 1266 TC. Only way to find out and decide between Diana and 1266 is to try them yourself!


----------



## mvvRAZ

Sonic Guild said:


> I am in between the Diana Phi and the new1266. Is it true that Diana Phi offers 90% of the 1266?
> 
> Money is not an issue but I am too scared of the 1266 ergonomics.
> Will I be able to sit on a recliner leaning back with issues? I have been told that the 1266 requires sitting straight because they don’t clamp on the head and every movement will change the cups positions which will affect the sound.
> ...


Go for the 1266 Imo. I own the Diana V2 and Diana Phi, I used to own the 1266 Phi CC and I have a TC on the way - the Diana's have a pretty small soundstage (and I mean small by headphone standards, not small by 2ch standards). I personally really enjoy that but I don't think it's going to be your cup of tea.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Sonic Guild said:


> I am in between the Diana Phi and the new1266. Is it true that Diana Phi offers 90% of the 1266?
> 
> Money is not an issue but I am too scared of the 1266 ergonomics.
> Will I be able to sit on a recliner leaning back with issues? I have been told that the 1266 requires sitting straight because they don’t clamp on the head and every movement will change the cups positions which will affect the sound.
> ...



It doesn't matter how you wear TC, it always perform better in term of soundstage and imaging than Diana Phi. Go straight to TC.


----------



## JLoud

I agree on the TC being the right Abyss for your preferences. If you really like to sound stage of 2 channel, the Raal SR1A may also be a consideration. However if deep bass, or just a lot of bass is a requirement, the Raal won't be for you. I have both and they are very different headphones in the lower registers.


----------



## makan

I have both the TC and Diana phi. The TC is better in all aspects except for comfort. I would be happy with the Diana if I had to give up the TC.


----------



## joseph69

vonBaron said:


> I wan't try this Lazuli Ultra but i fear that it can be bright becouse its hybrid of copper and silver.


A good silver cable should not sound bright, at all.


----------



## vonBaron

Yeah, i got two pure silver cables and sound more analog than some copper cables


----------



## JLoud

I have found silver to be the most balanced and transparent. Where silver coated copper to be somewhat bright.


----------



## stemiki

Today I tried to reinsert the stock cable which I had not used since I connected the HP SC. What a difference guys. I don't know how the SC can have more body and more details together. It feels like listening to a vinyl. Very analog sound.


----------



## vonBaron

But 3k$ for a HP cable is a robbery...


----------



## JonathanKlein

I'm using the Lazuli Nirvana, which is a copper cable mixed with some silver. It's still burning in at 100 hours. Once I hit 200 hours, I'll do some critical listening and A/B with the stock cable. Not sure how it stacks up sonically against the Ultra and Referencec but aesthetically, it's superb!


----------



## vonBaron

Lazuli Nirvana cost even more than Superconductor...


----------



## FLTWS

vonBaron said:


> Lazuli Nirvana cost even more than Superconductor...



Yes it does, and its a heavy cable with gi-hug-ic connectors that could be used as door stops, but I do like the sound with my Phi, it's delicious. As I understand it, it is a very difficult cable to fabricate and has to be done by hand.


----------



## vonBaron

Well i hope my Lazuli Utra will sound similar.


----------



## FLTWS (Nov 7, 2020)

I owned one, it will. I doubt you will be disappointed.


----------



## vonBaron

@FLTWS  i read your review


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> But 3k$ for a HP cable is a robbery...



My purchase was rather non violent and no coercion. I bought it and there was not a gun to my head. I’m glad I have the cable.


----------



## ken6217

I never owned the Ultra, but did own the Reference. The Reference was dead sounding. Good if you want to take brightness away. That’s why a lot of Utopia owners use it.


----------



## Roasty

ken6217 said:


> I never owned the Ultra, but did own the Reference. The Reference was dead sounding. Good if you want to take brightness away. That’s why a lot of Utopia owners use it.



Yeah I had the reference for the abyss but ended up returning it. Lost the high end, and low end as well.. Would not recommend for Abyss.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> Yeah I had the reference for the abyss but ended up returning it. Lost the high end, and low end as well.. Would not recommend for Abyss.



I had it originally with the Empyrean and that definitely was not a good pairing.


----------



## Sonic Guild

I would like to thank you all for the advice.
I ordered the 1266 through the distributor in my country. 

I am planning to use the RME ADI-2 Pro FS R
https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-pro-fs-be.html

It provides 2.5 watts per channel on the balanced mode. 

What do you think of this Amp/DAC? 
I like it because it has no flavour and does not colour the sound at all.  

It has a great EQ and also it will feed the amp that powers my subwoofers. Yes 2 subwoofers! I want to use subwoofers with the 1266


----------



## Litlgi74 (Nov 7, 2020)

Sonic Guild said:


> I would like to thank you all for the advice.
> I ordered the 1266 through the distributor in my country.
> 
> I am planning to use the RME ADI-2 Pro FS R
> ...


I use to have the RME... it’s a good DAC... but I think you will find that you need a little more oomph to drive your TCs.

I tried a subwoofer with my TCs...it was cool for a few minutes... but ultimately not necessary.

That being said... I am going to try a BassMe, Woojer, or Subpac to help enhance the visceral experience when using my headphones along with the A16 Realiser.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Sonic Guild said:


> I would like to thank you all for the advice.
> I ordered the 1266 through the distributor in my country.
> 
> I am planning to use the RME ADI-2 Pro FS R
> ...


Congrats on the TCs!  If you feed the TCs enough power, it sounds like you have subwoofers strapped to your head. It’s a crazy experience, and one I haven’t heard from any other headphone (the Fostex th900mk2 is close though).  You may not have to use the subs at all. 

I had the Hugo TT2 in the past and felt it couldn’t properly drive the TCs.  It is less powerful than your amp, but not by much.  If you’re unhappy with the TC sound with your amp, you may need to audition a more powerful amp to hear exactly what the TCs can do.


----------



## Jon L

Litlgi74 said:


> That being said... I am going to try a BassMe, Woojer, or Subpac to help enhance the visceral experience when using my headphones along with the A16 Realiser.



I have been looking at these devices, but in order to integrate them into high-end systems, it looks like one will have to provide a second line-out signal into the bass shaker, separate from the primary line-out which goes to the main headphone amp.


----------



## Litlgi74

Jon L said:


> I have been looking at these devices, but in order to integrate them into high-end systems, it looks like one will have to provide a second line-out signal into the bass shaker, separate from the primary line-out which goes to the main headphone amp.


Fortunately... the A16 Realiser has separate tactile output jacks. But you are right... most of these devices want you to plug your headphones into their control box.


----------



## drc73rp

I've found that when properly driven, the 1266TCs are just a totally different experience in soundstage, dynamics and bass. With a good integrated or pre-power, it really is the closest experience to a stereo system (out-of-the-head experience). Also, with sufficient power, slight changes in positioning (on the head, and of the pads) don't really matter as much, and instead of highlighting shortcomings in associated gear (cables, source, power), it's more of having different flavors and choosing which you prefer more. Not sure I can go back to using conventional headphone amps after this experience. It really is a must try at the very least.


----------



## makan

Sonic Guild said:


> I would like to thank you all for the advice.
> I ordered the 1266 through the distributor in my country.
> 
> I am planning to use the RME ADI-2 Pro FS R
> ...



I have the older version of the adi-2 pro fs without the remote and because of your post, am trying it out with my TC via a balanced adapter. It certainly gets loud enough. Sounds pretty good after a couple of songs vs the Ifi ican pro that I normally listen out via the RME DAC portion.   Warning...I don’t have golden ears


----------



## Sonic Guild (Nov 8, 2020)

makan said:


> I have the older version of the adi-2 pro fs without the remote and because of your post, am trying it out with my TC via a balanced adapter. It certainly gets loud enough. Sounds pretty good after a couple of songs vs the Ifi ican pro that I normally listen out via the RME DAC portion.   Warning...I don’t have golden ears


Thank you so much for testing the 1266 with the ADI Pro.
Are you using a specific/brand adaptor? (XLR female to 2 1/4 jacks)


----------



## makan (Nov 8, 2020)

Sonic Guild said:


> Thank you so much for testing the 1266 with the ADI Pro.
> Are you suing a specific/brand adaptor? (XLR female to 2 1/4 jacks)


Moon audio silver dragon. I am using the silver dragon as well for my TC cable


----------



## Sonic Guild

Drewligarchy said:


> Here is a stupid Abyss question:
> 
> Is it possible to lie down on a pillow, say on the couch with these headphones? I occasionally like to do that. Given that they work by suspension and not clamping, does it work - or will it screw up the fit?


I am looking for an answer too.
I don't mean to lie down completely on a bed, just to recline on a lazyboy. I just don't understand the philosophy of having a headphones that shifts its freq response and sound every time you slightly the cups .


----------



## makan

Sonic Guild said:


> I am looking for an answer too.
> I don't mean to lie down completely on a bed, just to recline on a lazyboy. I just don't understand the philosophy of having a headphones that shifts its freq response and sound every time you slightly the cups .


Works for me on my “relaxing chair”


----------



## Litlgi74

Sonic Guild said:


> I am looking for an answer too.
> I don't mean to lie down completely on a bed, just to recline on a lazyboy. I just don't understand the philosophy of having a headphones that shifts its freq response and sound every time you slightly the cups .


I use my headphones the majority of time while lying in bed... Sometimes the pillow does "slightly" lessen the bass response. But it's not really a big deal.


----------



## Litlgi74

I received my new headband from THXStereo. Wow... What an improvement. The ear pads are no longer sitting on top of my ears. Finally! The headband is much much more comfortable. I watched a two hour movie without any discomfort or hotspots. Bravo @Abyss Headphones Bravo!


----------



## JLoud

I listen to my TC's while reclining all the time. No issues. I might not be laying down, but reclined pretty far back. I wouldn't worry about it. I usually adjust the headphone after I recline and I'm all set.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

makan said:


> I have the older version of the adi-2 pro fs without the remote and because of your post, am trying it out with my TC via a balanced adapter. It certainly gets loud enough. Sounds pretty good after a couple of songs vs the Ifi ican pro that I normally listen out via the RME DAC portion.   Warning...I don’t have golden ears



Could you please rate (or refine on) the ifi pro vs the rme? Thank you very much


----------



## makan

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Could you please rate (or refine on) the ifi pro vs the rme? Thank you very much


So FWIW, today was the first time using the rme pro with the TC. I don’t see too much of a difference, except with the ican pro, I like being able to tweak the sound with the tube mode to round off the treble a little. Hard to know as I find it just more convenient to use the ican with the straight Xlr plug...and I don’t have golden ears. If I end up listening more with the RME which I doubt I will, I will let you know.


----------



## Blueoris

Drewligarchy said:


> Here is a stupid Abyss question:
> 
> Is it possible to lie down on a pillow, say on the couch with these headphones? I occasionally like to do that. Given that they work by suspension and not clamping, does it work - or will it screw up the fit?





makan said:


> Works for me on my “relaxing chair”



That's a nice chair.

@Drewligarchy  Yes, depending on head sizes and how the headphones are wore. I know that some people (including me) adjust the bass by moving the headphone backwards / forwards to alter the size of the port at the back of the ears. A pillow / couch could screw up that fit or cover the port, which will alter the bass response. These headphones act like back ported bookshelf monitors (i.e. KEF LS50), in the way that the size of the port at the back of the speakers requires a space between the speaker and the wall to achieve the best bass response.

My solution was to find a thin pillow that can be placed in the back of my head, but between the earcups so I can rest in my couch without changing the headphone fit or covering the port. I don't wear these headphones on bed.


----------



## drew911d

Ciggavelli said:


> Congrats on the TCs!  If you feed the TCs enough power, it sounds like you have subwoofers strapped to your head. It’s a crazy experience, and one I haven’t heard from any other headphone (the Fostex th900mk2 is close though).  You may not have to use the subs at all.
> 
> I had the Hugo TT2 in the past and felt it couldn’t properly drive the TCs.  It is less powerful than your amp, but not by much.  If you’re unhappy with the TC sound with your amp, you may need to audition a more powerful amp to hear exactly what the TCs can do.



Have you posted a review of the WA33 Elite JPS?  Really curious how it compares to the Riviera AIC10.

Thanks


----------



## Burakk

Hey , I would like to add one more question. How can we understand from the specs of amp that is able to drive 1266 easily ?


----------



## Ciggavelli

drew911d said:


> Have you posted a review of the WA33 Elite JPS?  Really curious how it compares to the Riviera AIC10.
> 
> Thanks


I haven't posted a review yet (I've been lazy...haha).  But, I like the WA33 Elite JPS more than the Riviera AIC-10.  Though, they are both excellent choices.  The AIC-10 gets a little fatiqued with very, very fast passages (like grindcore), but otherwise is great.  The WA33 Elite JPS has a bit more soundstage depth.  Both have excellent bass.  Treble might be a tad bit more "sparkly" on the WA33 Elite JPS, but it's close.  The WA33 allows for more tube options, but that also makes it more expensive than the AIC-10.  The WA33 can be used as a preamp, but the AIC-10 can't.  That may not be a problem for some, but I use the Raal/Requiste SR1as and like to make the WA33 EE JPS a preamp.


----------



## Burakk

Hi all, I need your help. I use my 1266 with Hugo tt2. Tt2 is good but not that so powerful for 1266. I would like to use it dac only with a proper amp. I need your amp suggestions.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Burakk said:


> Hi all, I need your help. I use my 1266 with Hugo tt2. Tt2 is good but not that so powerful for 1266. I would like to use it dac only with a proper amp. I need your amp suggestions.


I suggest the XIAUDIO Formula S. It has great synergy with the 1266. I preferred it to the TT2 when I had it and preferred it to the internal amp on the Bartok as well.


----------



## JLoud

If you like tubes, my vote is for the Woo WA33. I had the WA5le previously and it was very good as well. Plenty of power and a very spacious sound. The WA33 improves on speed and detail as well as bass slam over the WA5.


----------



## bearcatsandor

Are there any reasons why these headphones wouldn't be sufficient for audio mixing and mastering work? I'll be working in binaural, for what that matters.


----------



## Roasty (Nov 10, 2020)

bearcatsandor said:


> Are there any reasons why these headphones wouldn't be sufficient for audio mixing and mastering work? I'll be working in binaural, for what that matters.



The sound you get changes with headphone placement on head, frame width and angle, and pad positioning. So if accuracy and consistency is what you need, unless you can get the exact same placement and fit all the time, these may not be what you're looking for.

On the other hand, if you're just looking for a damn good time at work.. Then, yes. Yes x1000.


----------



## Tugbars (Nov 10, 2020)

bearcatsandor said:


> Are there any reasons why these headphones wouldn't be sufficient for audio mixing and mastering work? I'll be working in binaural, for what that matters.



Headphones do not have/can't have flat response that's why.





Free Field Response of Neumann KH310's. When paired with Neumann subwoofers, this whole graph becomes flat from 17hz to 22khz.


----------



## jlbrach

try the sr1a..most detailed HP I have ever heard.....


----------



## JLoud

Agreed. You will hear what's recorded that's for sure. Good or bad.


----------



## bearcatsandor

https://www.headphones.com/blogs/ne...sise-sr1a-earfieldtm-monitor-headphone-review  is quite the review of the sr1a. I'll consider them. I want full range, but maybe i can incorporate a sub somehow.


----------



## jlbrach

yes, beware of bad recordings


----------



## Tugbars (Nov 10, 2020)

Raal's are not full range headphones unfortunately. There is almost nothing going after 9khz and there is about 5% distortion in sub bass region. That distortion bleeds in to the low mids too. They are very shouty sounding headphones, that 2khz shout is very prominent and makes female vocals sound a bit odd. They don't sound more detailed in mids than 009S to my ears(in treble there isn't even a competition between estats and sr1a), especially if you EQ down all the shouty parts to make them sound pleasant again. They are quite good when it comes to reproducing vocal music(not because they have great tonality, the mid detail and mid dynamics of sr1a is quite good), however if you are into violin / cello solos and chamber music... No, SR1A's are not your thing. Raal's are not recommended for bass heavy music too. Note that, HSA-1b wasn't available in market when I had owned them. They may sound less shouty, distortion may be less with a proper direct drive amp. I really hope HSA-1b makes high treble sound a bit more alive too.


----------



## paradoxper (Nov 10, 2020)

Tugbars said:


> Raal's are not full range headphones unfortunately. There is almost nothing going after 9khz and there is about 5% distortion in sub bass region. That distortion bleeds in to the low mids too. They are very shouty sounding headphones, that 2khz shout is very prominent and makes female vocals sound a bit odd. They don't sound more detailed in mids than 009S to my ears(in treble there isn't even a competition between estats and sr1a), especially if you EQ down all the shouty parts to make them sound pleasant again. They are quite good when it comes to reproducing vocal music(not because they have great tonality, the mid detail and mid dynamics of sr1a is quite good), however if you are into violin / cello solos and chamber music... No, Raal's are not your thing. Raal's are not recommended for bass heavy music too. Note that, HSA-1b wasn't available in market when I had owned them. They may sound less shouty, distortion may be less with a proper direct drive amp. I really hope HSA-1b makes treble sound a bit more alive too.


That's crazy. The treble and especially mids from the SR1a bla bla "properly" amped has as good response with far fuller detail than the DIY T2/009. Sure, they can be shouty as they're simply the most revealing headphone on the planet. They also respond to EQ better than any headphone to help mitigate their inherent behavioral characteristics.

I'm curious to hear how my uberamp2 might scale the SR1a a bit more although I don't anticipate bridging the gap far enough as they are fundamentally limited in excursion and there-in ultimate bass response. However, we've been playing this game for years trying to fit one headphone into it checks all the boxes rather than pursuing complimentary ultimatums.

I still go for my TC much more than the SR1a. That bass response is just too real and unrivaled.


----------



## JLoud

I reach for the TC the most as well. But for certain music the SR1A is fabulous. Overall, the TC reigns supreme.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Nov 10, 2020)

The Sr1as and TCs compliment each other well. You want to listen to hip-hop or electronica, use the TCs. If you want high resolution and detail, go with the SR1as.

I will say this though, the TCs work well with every genre. The SR1as don’t. Listening to bass heavy music on the SR1as is very disappointing. Yes, they do pretty much everything else really well. But, if you listen to rap, metal, electronic, you can’t have just the SR1as. With the TCs you can listen to any genre, any song, and be impressed with the sound.

If you can only choose 1 headphone, the TCs are the clear winner


----------



## jlbrach

I go back and forth....I think the TC is truly phenomenal but have been reaching for the sr1a more often of late....the susvara are terrific as well...the big 3 IMHO today and the sr1a are simply the most discerning detailed and spacious HP I have heard...for those who seek maximum bass stick with the TC...cannot go wrong either way


----------



## Tugbars

for binaural recordings, like David Chesky stuff SR1A's are fine.


----------



## jlbrach

they are fine for everything, they are phenomenal and I say that as one who loves my TC's


----------



## vonBaron (Nov 11, 2020)

Lazuli Ultra arrived!
First hour of listen, better soundstage, resolution, better bass control, sound is more soft and pleasant compare to stock especially highs, sound more"wet".
Ultra is thick and quite heavy but very flexible, i have used DHC Piron and in terms of ergonomic i like Ultra more.
I was little affraid of hybrid cable for Abyss but it's great, bump SQ of my Phi!


----------



## Roasty

vonBaron said:


> Lazuli Ultra arrived!
> First hour of listen, better soundstage, resolution, better bass control, sound is more soft and pleasant compare to stock especially highs, sound more"wet".
> Ultra is thick and quite heavy but very flexible, i have used DHC Piron and in terms of ergonomic i like Ultra more.
> I was little affraid of hybrid cable for Abyss but it's great, bump SQ of my Phi!



Nice! What length did u get? Any difference with the mids?


----------



## vonBaron

2m, yes mids are more smooth now with better vocals


----------



## Hoegaardener70

vonBaron said:


> Lazuli Ultra arrived!
> First hour of listen, better soundstage, resolution, better bass control, sound is more soft and pleasant compare to stock especially highs, sound more"wet".
> Ultra is thick and quite heavy but very flexible, i have used DHC Piron and in terms of ergonomic i like Ultra more.



Great you are having fun - as said, it is a great sounding cable. For me, the ergonomics were a no-go ... 

I also have cable news: I am using the Superconductor cable for two days now. Unfortunately for my wallet, it sounds great and has the best synergy with the TC imaginable. And it is very flexible and light for a super high end cable.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Nov 11, 2020)

I tried to repair my ear pads which fell apart (and got disgustingly sticky) because of the runny glue. First I disassembled the pad - leather cover, foam polster, plastic ring attached to the polster (needs to be separated) and magnetic ring. I then cleaned it very thoroughly from the glue with isopropyl alcohol. It is important to remember shape and alignments.

After this, I tried to rebuild the pad using the smallest paper stapler I could find. I started with stapling the outer part of the leather liningto the plastic ring. That part was easy since I could move under the ring with the stapler. Attaching the inner leather lining was a lot trickier to staple. I had to remove and retry several times.

It took quite some time but I am quite pleased with the result so far. The height of the pad is the same as a proper pad. However, the surfaces are not perfectly aligned on top of the frame but it is better in real life than it looks.

I now need to think how to best attach the pad to the magnetic ring. I am thinking of 3M double sided tape.


----------



## jlbrach

mvvRAZ said:


> Go for the 1266 Imo. I own the Diana V2 and Diana Phi, I used to own the 1266 Phi CC and I have a TC on the way - the Diana's have a pretty small soundstage (and I mean small by headphone standards, not small by 2ch standards). I personally really enjoy that but I don't think it's going to be your cup of tea.





vonBaron said:


> Lazuli Ultra arrived!
> First hour of listen, better soundstage, resolution, better bass control, sound is more soft and pleasant compare to stock especially highs, sound more"wet".
> Ultra is thick and quite heavy but very flexible, i have used DHC Piron and in terms of ergonomic i like Ultra more.
> I was little affraid of hybrid cable for Abyss but it's great, bump SQ of my Phi!


If one os going to spend that type of money on a cable I personally would suggest buying the abyss super conductor cable rather than the Lazuli ....


----------



## vonBaron

Find me SC cable in price of used Lazuli Ultra and i will buy it ASAP...


----------



## koven

jlbrach said:


> If one os going to spend that type of money on a cable I personally would suggest buying the abyss super conductor cable rather than the Lazuli ....



Or trading up to the TC instead...


----------



## vonBaron

Someday i will go for TC, don't worry


----------



## MrCypruz

vonBaron said:


> Find me SC cable in price of used Lazuli Ultra and i will buy it ASAP...


I lucked out a few days ago with an awesome headfier @Bonddam and got his SC cable on a great deal! The lowest I’ve seen them going for...thanks again buddy!


----------



## Blueoris

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I tried to repair my ear pads which fell apart (and got disgustingly sticky) because of the runny glue. First I disassembled the pad - leather cover, foam polster, plastic ring attached to the polster (needs to be separated) and magnetic ring. I then cleaned it very thoroughly from the glue with isopropyl alcohol. It is important to remember shape and alignments.
> 
> After this, I tried to rebuild the pad using the smallest paper stapler I could find. I started with stapling the outer part of the leather liningto the plastic ring. That part was easy since I could move under the ring with the stapler. Attaching the inner leather lining was a lot trickier to staple. I had to remove and retry several times.
> 
> ...



Excellent work so far, and thanks for sharing this here. I've been thinking on doing something similar with one of my pads, as there is a section in the pad were the lambskin leader is coming out from the external ring (see image). How did you stapled the leader into the transparent plastic ring?




I have been researching about different types of glue https://www.libertyleathergoods.com/leather-glue/

From that article, I was thinking on using a type of glue for natural leather, with medium or strong hold properties to attach the lambskin to the transparent ring and the magnetic ring to the pad. I was thinking using the strong one in the lambskin bits I need to put back, and the medium one for the magnetic ring, in case I need to disassemble the ring in the future (With the strong ones, if one tries to pull apart leather that is bonded with with that type of glue, the leather fibers will tear before the glue separates). 

I am a newbie on these leather glue types so I am learning as I write this.


----------



## Roasty

MrCypruz said:


> The lowest I’ve seen them going for...



The people need to know!


----------



## attmci

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I tried to repair my ear pads which fell apart (and got disgustingly sticky) because of the runny glue. First I disassembled the pad - leather cover, foam polster, plastic ring attached to the polster (needs to be separated) and magnetic ring. I then cleaned it very thoroughly from the glue with isopropyl alcohol. It is important to remember shape and alignments.
> 
> After this, I tried to rebuild the pad using the smallest paper stapler I could find. I started with stapling the outer part of the leather liningto the plastic ring. That part was easy since I could move under the ring with the stapler. Attaching the inner leather lining was a lot trickier to staple. I had to remove and retry several times.
> 
> ...


The ring is important. The pad can be replaced.


----------



## MrCypruz

Roasty said:


> The people need to know!


You can check it out here!


----------



## Bonddam

I used them to Borat myself figure the smell brings down the resell value.


----------



## MrCypruz

Bonddam said:


> I used them to Borat myself figure the smell brings down the resell value.


Hahahahaha Thanks for the heads up, I won’t be doing the smell test on them!!!


----------



## Roasty

MrCypruz said:


> You can check it out here!



What the... That was a steal!


----------



## vonBaron

It's dual 3 pin XLR...


----------



## MrCypruz

vonBaron said:


> It's dual 3 pin XLR...


Perfect for the WA33!


----------



## Hoegaardener70

attmci said:


> The ring is important. The pad can be replaced.



What do you exactly mean? In its original form, the pads are glued to the ring. If you get a replacement pair, it would include the magnetic ring as well.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

MrCypruz said:


> You can check it out here!



How long is the cable?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Blueoris said:


> Excellent work so far, and thanks for sharing this here. I've been thinking on doing something similar with one of my pads, as there is a section in the pad were the lambskin leader is coming out from the external ring (see image). How did you stapled the leader into the transparent plastic ring?



Your pad looks so much better than mine, I had no other chance than to disassemble all. The stapling is only possible if you separate the foam from the plastic ring. That way, you can go with the stapler underneath. 

Looking at your issue, I'd try to get a strong double sided tape (3M is good) which you can cut to the appropriate size and then insert in the gap, hopefully sealing it. 

The disassembling is definitely last resort.


----------



## MrCypruz

Hoegaardener70 said:


> How long is the cable?


6 ft


----------



## smodtactical

How close does the TC get to real speaker presentation? 

Just had a listening session on my speakers and my headphones simply can't compare


----------



## vonBaron

It's closest you can get from headphones.


----------



## vonBaron

Now i listen my 1266 Phi with Pro ICan (with Bendix tubes) and i like it more than with GS-X mini!


----------



## Hoegaardener70

vonBaron said:


> Now i listen my 1266 Phi with Pro ICan (with Bendix tubes) and i like it more than with GS-X mini!



I upgraded my Pro iCan with WE 396A vintage tubes and I feel it beats now amps with a much, much higher price point. Sounds great with both HD800S and ab-1266tc


----------



## vonBaron

I have WE tubes too but i think Bendix is slighty better. I have very good LPS for my ICan too, it boost SQ even higher.
I thnik changing GS-X and ICan to Nimbus but nah, i don't need too


----------



## Redwingnine

Just picked up a pair of 1266 phi with CC pads.  These cans are incredible.  Likely the best cans I've ever heard.  Hats off to the team at Abyss.  Outstanding.

Tried parametric EQ. It truly transforms the sound of the 1266 phi to another level.  My Mjolnir Audio Pure Bipolar has just enough power to drive the cans with EQ applied.  Although they sound great without EQ, they achieve another level of sonic clarity and realism with EQ.  

Would be interested to get feedback from the Abyss team regarding feedback.


----------



## bearcatsandor (Nov 12, 2020)

As long as they're better than my Sony MDR-7506!


----------



## Burakk

I couldn’t find a proper amp to drive my 1266 yet. I need your help. 

I’m planning to use ICAN with TT2. What do you think about this match? My concern is there is no balanced output on TT2. As far as I understand from the specs of ican, it has better noise floor on balanced output.Is this cause any problem or it’s sth I should forget about. 

I would really appreciate your comments. How should I connect TT2 > Ican > 1266 to get best possible performance?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Burakk said:


> I couldn’t find a proper amp to drive my 1266 yet. I need your help.
> 
> I’m planning to use ICAN with TT2. What do you think about this match? My concern is there is no balanced output on TT2. As far as I understand from the specs of ican, it has better noise floor on balanced output.Is this cause any problem or it’s sth I should forget about.
> 
> I would really appreciate your comments. How should I connect TT2 > Ican > 1266 to get best possible performance?


I had a TT2 a while back.  I felt that SE out of the front did not properly drive the TCs.  Others have mentioned using the XLR connectors on the back and that supposedly drives them well.


----------



## Burakk

Ciggavelli said:


> I had a TT2 a while back.  I felt that SE out of the front did not properly drive the TCs.  Others have mentioned using the XLR connectors on the back and that supposedly drives them well.


Which cable should I use ?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Burakk said:


> Which cable should I use ?


I use the superconductor cable.  But if you mean what cable for the XLR on the back, you need to get some cables with dual 3-pin XLR connectors.


----------



## Burakk

Ciggavelli said:


> I use the superconductor cable.  But if you mean what cable for the XLR on the back, you need to get some cables with dual 3-pin XLR connectors.


I suppose, I need dual 3 pin to 4 pin female sth.


----------



## vonBaron

Or you just can buy Pro ICan and live happy


----------



## Burakk

vonBaron said:


> Or you just can buy Pro ICan and live happy


I couldn’t decide the connection of tt2 > Ican. Ican’s xlr input is balanced. Any idea?


----------



## vonBaron

Yes its blanced.


----------



## vonBaron

You don't need XLR cables becouse ICan is fully blanced.


----------



## Burakk

vonBaron said:


> Yes its blanced.


Is it possible to connect tt2‘a  output to ican’s xlr balanced input?


----------



## Burakk

vonBaron said:


> You don't need XLR cables becouse ICan is fully blanced.


Do you suggest to connect rca to rca?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Burakk said:


> Do you suggest to connect rca to rca?


I looked at the back of the ifi.  You can either use xlr interconnects or rca interconnects.


----------



## Burakk

Ciggavelli said:


> I looked at the back of the ifi.  You can either use xlr interconnects or rca interconnects.


Thanks for your help. I hope I’ll be happy with it. I’ll update shortly.


----------



## vonBaron

Burakk said:


> Do you suggest to connect rca to rca?


Yes you can XLR-XLR or RCA-RCA.


----------



## MrCypruz

The SC is in the den!!




This cable is an upgrade in every way over the stock cable, from aesthetics to overall ergonomics and sound performance.


Assuming that the source and amplification has been taken care of, the stock cable gives you a pretty good idea of what the TC is capable of, but the SC brings them to another level. The most noticeable improvements for me are in the overall body, the already spine rattling bass got more detailed, the midrange got more weight making it even closer to the real deal (live performance) and the treble tone is even more controlled and well extended.


After having the SC cable, it feels like Abyss builds an ergonomically painful stock cable on purpose to make us buy the upgraded one - the difference in ergonomics between the two cable is mind boggling - hard to believe that they’re both made by the same company, for the same product and the same customer base. Please build a stock cable that is ergonomically in the middle ground between the two.


----------



## Roasty

MrCypruz said:


> The SC is in the den!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Like I've said before, it's almost a disservice not to pair the TC with the SC. I'm glad I bit the bullet earlier on, rather than try other cables and end up forever thinking about the SC and wondering what it could/would do for the TC.

Congrats man!


----------



## MrCypruz (Nov 12, 2020)

Roasty said:


> Like I've said before, it's almost a disservice not to pair the TC with the SC. I'm glad I bit the bullet earlier on, rather than try other cables and end up forever thinking about the SC and wondering what it could/would do for the TC.
> 
> Congrats man!


I know man, I’m also glad and grateful for making the move (and got a great deal in the process).

If one can afford it, the SC is a must have, specially if he/she listens to well recorded music, because it will enhance the perception of nuances within the recordings...it will give you a lot of additional wow moments. I have been wowed since I got it.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Roasty said:


> Like I've said before, it's almost a disservice not to pair the TC with the SC. I'm glad I bit the bullet earlier on, rather than try other cables and end up forever thinking about the SC and wondering what it could/would do for the TC.
> 
> Congrats man!


You get your WA33 yet?  If so, what do you think?


----------



## Roasty

Ciggavelli said:


> You get your WA33 yet?  If so, what do you think?



Only have the box of tubes so far; they came with another shipment. The main amp is on its way. Hopefully it'll arrive within the next few days!


----------



## jlbrach

MrCypruz said:


> The SC is in the den!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that said the stock cable is as good as any stock cable I have yet heard for any HP


----------



## MrCypruz

jlbrach said:


> that said the stock cable is as good as any stock cable I have yet heard for any HP


The sonic qualities of the stock cables are great, the ergonomics suck though, big time!!!. The stock cable sounds really good but the SC sounds fantastic!


----------



## InstantSilence

Due to the stock cable being so horrible in feel, I will never buy jps labs cables ever. Plenty of other outstanding cable makers out there.


----------



## Roasty

Anyone have a clue on their interconnects? Superconductor 2 is cheaper than 4 and V, but 4 is more expensive than V. Anyone tried their Aluminata xlr?


----------



## jlbrach

that is a bit silly but ok!


----------



## MatW (Nov 13, 2020)

Delete. I was looking at an older message and the conversation had moved on.


----------



## FLTWS

InstantSilence said:


> Due to the stock cable being so horrible in feel, I will never buy jps labs cables ever. Plenty of other outstanding cable makers out there.



I have a couple pairs of their superconductor V IC's, they are no different in flex / stiffness from the usual type manufactured by other company's, not slinky-whippy like the stock 1266 cable. No problems in use other than the nicely machined locking barrels are a tight to fit on RCA's with center to center L & R spacing as found on Schiit and other manufacturers gear. (My Formula S and PrimaLuna amps have more widely spaced female RCA's). The SC HP cable is very soft and flexible. It may use the same alumiloy and more of it perhaps but I've wondered why the difference in flex and feel compared with the stock. Maybe it has to do with the materials used in the insulating layers, sheathing materials, and perhaps how the wire is drawn.


----------



## ken6217

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Great you are having fun - as said, it is a great sounding cable. For me, the ergonomics were a no-go ...
> 
> I also have cable news: I am using the Superconductor cable for two days now. Unfortunately for my wallet, it sounds great and has the best synergy with the TC imaginable. And it is very flexible and light for a super high end cable.





InstantSilence said:


> Due to the stock cable being so horrible in feel, I will never buy jps labs cables ever. Plenty of other outstanding cable makers out there.



Yea. You showed them!! 👌


----------



## Darkliner (Nov 13, 2020)

Roasty said:


> Anyone have a clue on their interconnects? Superconductor 2 is cheaper than 4 and V, but 4 is more expensive than V. Anyone tried their Aluminata xlr?



I have used aluminata xlr before, along with aluminata power cables.  While they are very good cables, I feel high fidelity's magnetic cables are better.  I am using a wa33 with mscaler and dave.  I found the magnetic cables to have a much better synergy.


----------



## simorag

MrCypruz said:


> I know man, I’m also glad and grateful for making the move (and got a great deal in the process).
> 
> If one can afford it, the SC is a must have, specially if he/she listens to well recorded music, because it will enhance the perception of nuances within the recordings...it will give you a lot of additional wow moments. I have been wowed since I got it.



I agree. This (technically outstanding) recording was one of those helping me decide to take the plunge on the SC, namely the Duo track.






I felt that the sense of space, the body and texture of the strings and the detail conveyed by the SC, were - as a package - notably superior,  to the stock and the Danacable Lazuli Reference (not tried the Ultra or the Nirvana, though). The Prion4 provided an even blacker background and a more transparent soundscape, but I preferred the SC slightly richer / denser tonality.

I am not commenting on their price, but in my experience, at the level of performance provided by the AB-1266 TC, finding a definite upgrade of their sound all across the board - i.e. without compromising on some of their balance - is a challenge, and the SC delivers just that, to my ears  .


----------



## attmci (Nov 13, 2020)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> What do you exactly mean? In its original form, the pads are glued to the ring. If you get a replacement pair, it would include the magnetic ring as well.


Can you glue the ring to a similar pad?


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Nov 13, 2020)

attmci said:


> Can you stick the ring to a similar pad?




I had thought about that as well. The closest in shape I can think of would be the Empyrean's pad. Since they sit on a magnet as well, they might even attach to the pad in a snap for quick testing.

Sadly, I don't have one here. But if somebody here could chip in on pad alternatives, that would be great.


----------



## attmci

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I had thought about that as well. The closest in shape I can think of would be the Empyrean's pad. Since they sit on a magnet as well, they might even attach to the pad in a snap for quick testing.
> 
> Sadly, I don't have one here. But if somebody here could chip in on pad alternatives, that would be great.


Check with Deconi. They are interested in this project.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

attmci said:


> Check with Deconi. They are interested in this project.



Hm, I read somewhere they are not anymore. In any case, my best outcome would be to keep the original. As I posted before, the re-assembled pad is acceptable but doesn't look like the normal new, unfortunately. I will get the double sided tape this weekend and report back how it holds the pad. It's more of a pet project I am sharing here.


----------



## Redwingnine (Nov 14, 2020)

Does anyone who owns the 1266 use EQ?   Been going back and forth with using it.  Although it does seem to help the presence region,  it also seems to overdrive treble,  making it sound brittle.  These are using parametric EQ values that are generally accepted across the board.


----------



## Slim1970

Redwingnine said:


> Does anyone who owns the 1266 use EQ?   Been going back and forth with using it.  Although it does seem to help the presence region,  it also seems to overdrive treble,  making it sound brittle.  These are using parametric EQ values that are generally accepted across the board.


I do when I use my RME ADI-2 FS as a preamp for my power amp or DAC for my FA-10. They are subtle changes to the lowest bass octaves, a boost to the mids, and a tweak to the treble. I like what I hear


----------



## Litlgi74

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Hm, I read somewhere they are not anymore. In any case, my best outcome would be to keep the original. As I posted before, the re-assembled pad is acceptable but doesn't look like the normal new, unfortunately. I will get the double sided tape this weekend and report back how it holds the pad. It's more of a pet project I am sharing here.


I asked Dekoni as well... When I asked... They said they were not interested.


----------



## JLoud

Litlgi74 said:


> I asked Dekoni as well... When I asked... They said they were not interested.


Someone should point out how much Abyss gets for stock pads. $2-300 would probably sell if they were an improvement for some.


----------



## Redwingnine

Slim1970 said:


> I do when I use my RME ADI-2 FS as a preamp for my power amp or DAC for my FA-10. They are subtle changes to the lowest bass octaves, a boost to the mids, and a tweak to the treble. I like what I hear



I use my ADI-2 as a DAC to a Pure Bipolar headphone amp.  Could you share your settings, and what reference did you use, if any?


----------



## attmci (Nov 14, 2020)

JLoud said:


> Someone should point out how much Abyss gets for stock pads. $2-300 would probably sell if they were an improvement for some.


I heard different, and they asked me to send my pad to them. But I have only two pairs (non-cc and cc). LOL


----------



## JLoud

attmci said:


> I heard different, and they asked me to send my pad to them. But I have only two pairs (non-cc and cc). LOL


Two pairs? How many ears do you have?  Seriously though, I would find it hard to send them a pair at what they cost to replace if lost.


----------



## attmci (Nov 14, 2020)

JLoud said:


> Two pairs? How many ears do you have?  Seriously though, I would find it hard to send them a pair at what they cost to replace if lost.


A broken pad worth close to zero.

I am taking good care of these pads. Always use the ring to remove the cc pad because the magnet is pretty strong. On the other hand, I am not aware anyone had broken a non-cc pad before (cushions tearing out).


----------



## Sage Encore

JLoud said:


> Someone should point out how much Abyss gets for stock pads. $2-300 would probably sell if they were an improvement for some.


I concur


----------



## FLTWS (Nov 15, 2020)

attmci said:


> A broken pad worth close to zero.
> 
> I am taking good care of these pads. Always use the ring to remove the cc pad because the magnet is pretty strong. On the other hand, I am not aware anyone had broken a non-cc pad before (cushions tearing out).



Mine has one small loose spot on one of the pads (a pre-ordered pair), I stopped experimenting with different ear pad positions to keep it from increasing in area. The strength of the magnets (which is a very good thing to my way of thinking) can make a clean ring only release a little iffy for me sometimes. Maybe that's what the plastic guitar pic  is for, pry it up by the ring. I also don't figure why I'm still playing with ear cup position after 2 years of ownership, LOL. Then again, when I put the Phi on and take it off the pad does come into play.

In this picture by Hoegaardener70 it looks like the material shrank and split?


----------



## MatW

FLTWS said:


> Maybe that's what the plastic guitar pic  is for, pry it up by the ring.


Haha, nice thinking, but the guitar pick is apparently intended to be used to loosen the screws on the new headband, if/when you want to replace the O ring.
(I just use a screwdriver for that.)


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

ken6217 said:


> What would you pay for a speaker cable? That’s what a headphone cable is.


I paid £10k (circa. US$13k) for my speaker cables and and £5k for my inteconnects for my speaker system in Spain.....solid silver....massive difference in sound quality though !    
But this is nothing to some people I know who have spent over £100k on cables and interconnects for their £1million+ systems !


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Hi all (you very lucky) Abyss 1266 Owners,

Does anybody have the Trafomatic Audio Primevera Headphone Amp running their 1266's and any comparisons on this Amp with the WA33 and the XIAUDIO Formula S ?

Just did a search on this forum for "Trafomatic Audio Primevera" but nothing came up.   Plenty of info on the WA33 though ! 

Also any Chord DAVE owners who feel the 1266 sounds good just from the DAVE's headphone output ?


----------



## FLTWS

MatW said:


> Haha, nice thinking, but the guitar pick is apparently intended to be used to loosen the screws on the new headband, if/when you want to replace the O ring.
> (I just use a screwdriver for that.)



Yep, works much better but I'd hesitate to use this to lift the ear pad.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

FLTWS said:


> Yep, works much better but I'd hesitate to use this to lift the ear pad.


Is that a left handed or right handed screwdriver ?


----------



## FLTWS

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Is that a left handed or right handed screwdriver ?



It's ambidextrous.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

FLTWS said:


> It's ambidextrous.


Lol 👍


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Lol 👍


Is it multi tasking too ?


----------



## FLTWS

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Is it multi tasking too ?



Yes, I just changed my O-Rings a few minutes ago to R22 (I believe, the box interior wasn't labeled so I went by what looked right), and it works both ways, and, as it turns out, the screw driver has many other uses.


----------



## nrbatista

Setup these days. TC’s on Room’s stand from Headphone Auditions Amsterdam driven by a Fezz Audio Omega Lupi. Now get back to listening!


----------



## mvvRAZ

nrbatista said:


> Setup these days. TC’s on Room’s stand from Headphone Auditions Amsterdam driven by a Fezz Audio Omega Lupi. Now get back to listening!


I’ve got some Room’s wooden stands but damn this one is perfect for the 1266


----------



## nrbatista

mvvRAZ said:


> I’ve got some Room’s wooden stands but damn this one is perfect for the 1266



Indeed! Specially designed for the 1266, not applies any pressure to the headband. I’ve bought it here.


----------



## mvvRAZ

nrbatista said:


> Indeed! Specially designed for the 1266, not applies any pressure to the headband. I’ve bought it here.


Oh awesome I know Stefan! The pricing is ridiculous but yeah, looks really good - I have my custom 1266 TC arriving tomorrow


----------



## Hoegaardener70

FLTWS said:


> In this picture by Hoegaardener70 it looks like the material shrank and split?



No, it did not... the issue was that the inner sides of the material was rather short, keeping the area which was used for gluing rather small. In order for me to staple, I had to pull the material over the disk creating this look. As said, last resort experiment .


----------



## Hoegaardener70

nrbatista said:


> Indeed! Specially designed for the 1266, not applies any pressure to the headband. I’ve bought it here.



Bought mine there as well. I had it in two days, great service.


----------



## InstantSilence

mvvRAZ said:


> Oh awesome I know Stefan! The pricing is ridiculous but yeah, looks really good - I have my custom 1266 TC arriving tomorrow


How does it look?


----------



## mvvRAZ

InstantSilence said:


> How does it look?


I asked them not to send me a photo of it before shipping it out - I'd like to be surprised when I receive it haha - the theme is neon green though, a sort of toxic/fallout vibe


----------



## InstantSilence

mvvRAZ said:


> I asked them not to send me a photo of it before shipping it out - I'd like to be surprised when I receive it haha - the theme is neon green though, a sort of toxic/fallout vibe


Can't wait to see it, if yiu share


----------



## mvvRAZ

InstantSilence said:


> Can't wait to see it, if yiu share


Will do! Pics incoming tomorrow


----------



## qboogie

Has anyone listened to the 1266s driven by ZMF Pendant tube amp? I read Torq's review and it seemed favorable.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

So, I spent the whole Sunday so far comparing the ab-1266tc with the Utopia (and some cable comparisons). I do love my Utopia, but it just cannot match the ab-1266tc in fun. The Utopia holds its ground well, but the visceral impact and overall increased dynamics while being smooth of the abyss is just something else.


----------



## Trance_Gott (Nov 15, 2020)

My Utopia is on the way. Would be fun to test against TC, RAD0, Stellia and 007.
I had the Utopia 3 years ago. Think the dynamic impact is unmatched and instrument separation is better then SR009s which was my last reference for that terms. 
We will see.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Trance_Gott said:


> My Utopia is on the way. Would be fun to test against TC, RAD0, Stellia and 007.
> I had the Utopia 3 years ago. Think the dynamic impact is unmatched and instrument separation is better then SR009s which was my last reference for that terms.
> We will see.



Looking forward to your impressions. As I wrote, in direct comparison, the Utopia could not match the TC. This was based on the overall "fun aspect" - it was the fuller, more spectacular experience. I can only keep one of the two, so I need to get this right.


----------



## JLoud

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Looking forward to your impressions. As I wrote, in direct comparison, the Utopia could not match the TC. This was based on the overall "fun aspect" - it was the fuller, more spectacular experience. I can only keep one of the two, so I need to get this right.


I came to the same conclusion last year. I ended up selling my Utopia and keeping the TC. I do on occasion miss the Utopia though.


----------



## MrCypruz (Nov 15, 2020)

JLoud said:


> I came to the same conclusion last year. I ended up selling my Utopia and keeping the TC. I do on occasion miss the Utopia though.



I sold my first pair but “couldn’t” live without it, got another pair.

The TC is fun but can be “bass-fatiguing” at times for me and I tend to enjoy the reference sound a bit more..thus the SR1a being my preferred pair of the bunch followed by the Utopia/Susvara (assuming that source components and amplification are well taken care of) then TC.

PS: everything sounds good with the TC, it’s the easiest single headphone one could have...but I wouldn’t call it reference level - sometimes the bass can be too much for my taste.


----------



## jlbrach

you can adjust the bass to be less prevalent if it bothers you


----------



## MrCypruz

jlbrach said:


> you can adjust the bass to be less prevalent if it bothers you


Yes sir! That’s what I usually do.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Listening to the Utopias right now. I always enjoy them, but they're definitely a few steps behind the TC overall. Susvara and 009 as well. They just aren't on that same level, although are still very enjoyable. Along with the Verite Closed, they're both great but just not on that same playing field.


----------



## MrCypruz

number1sixerfan said:


> Listening to the Utopias right now. I always enjoy them, but they're definitely a few steps behind the TC overall. Susvara and 009 as well. They just aren't on that same level, although are still very enjoyable. Along with the Verite Closed, they're both great but just not on that same playing field.


Yup, they sound “small” / “congested” when compared to the others (not sure if cups size is the culprit for this)...but on technicalities, they’re right up there with the bunch imo.


----------



## MrCypruz

I noticed that A/B testing is simply not fair for any of the cans I own when coming from the TC....everything sounds thin and lacking body during the brain adjustment period which tends to make me biased. I avoid that A/B testing sequence at all costs because it usually affects my ability to properly evaluate other cans.


----------



## number1sixerfan

MrCypruz said:


> Yup, they sound “small” / “congested” when compared to the others (not sure if cups size is the culprit for this)...but on technicalities, they’re right up there with the bunch imo.



They do, but that's actually the beauty in them for me. They remind me of Grado's in that way, very in your face and forward. With a ton of punch. But I'd have to disagree on the last part imo. From a technical perspective they just don't come close to the TC, Susvara, 009. (detail, clarity, transparency, imaging, refinement etc)


----------



## vonBaron

MrCypruz said:


> I noticed that A/B testing is simply not fair for any of the cans I own when coming from the TC....everything sounds thin and lacking body during the brain adjustment period which tends to make me biased. I avoid that A/B testing sequence at all costs because it usually affects my ability to properly evaluate other cans.


When im listen my 1266 Phi i don't want take them of becouse of proper position on my head.


----------



## MrCypruz (Nov 16, 2020)

number1sixerfan said:


> But I'd have to disagree on the last part imo. From a technical perspective they just don't come close to the TC, Susvara, 009. (detail, clarity, transparency, imaging, refinement etc)



Very interesting...Then let’s agree to disagree, specially on the “don’t come close” part! 

I didn’t know the prowess of the Utopia until I drove them using the WA33...it was an eye and ear opening experience for me.


----------



## number1sixerfan

MrCypruz said:


> Very interesting...Then let’s agree to disagree, specially on the “don’t come close” part!
> 
> I didn’t know the prowess of the Utopia until I drove them using the WA33...it was an eye and ear opening experience for me.



Agree and that's always totally fine     ..and I meant absolutely no disrespect to the Utopias, love them out of the WA33 and I use them often. Cheers!


----------



## InstantSilence

When, likely, would be the next 1266 version?


----------



## vonBaron

I hope not!!


----------



## Ciggavelli

InstantSilence said:


> When, likely, would be the next 1266 version?


I read somewhere, maybe the Diana thread, were somebody claimed Abyss said there would be no more 1266 revisions. Apparently Abyss’s next pair of headphones is a closed back Diana (which I would definitely be interested in, personally)


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Nov 16, 2020)

number1sixerfan said:


> They do, but that's actually the beauty in them for me. They remind me of Grado's in that way, very in your face and forward. With a ton of punch. But I'd have to disagree on the last part imo. From a technical perspective they just don't come close to the TC, Susvara, 009. (detail, clarity, transparency, imaging, refinement etc)






MrCypruz said:


> Very interesting...Then let’s agree to disagree, specially on the “don’t come close” part!
> 
> I didn’t know the prowess of the Utopia until I drove them using the WA33...it was an eye and ear opening experience for me.



Having spent so much time lately with both, I am now closer to MrCyprus... the ab-1266tc needs an excellent rig and some patience from the owner (positioning)... and the utopia needs some synergetic equipment. I am currently listening to the utopias in combination with the Arche and they are so smooth, transparent and refined. The abyss is the more encompassing experience; bassy and full of energy with an aggressive tuning. The utopias still give me a listening experience like sitting in between an orchestra, while the abyss gives me the middle front seat with the full orchestra. Both are great.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Listening to my Phi TC tonight with the new headband...big shout out to Joe and the team for continuing to strive to make these headphones even better! I have a 7 3/4" hat size and I find this new headband quite a bit more comfortable than the original. The extra padding really helps. Queen has never sounded better than through these awesome headphones!


----------



## JLoud

MacedonianHero said:


> Listening to my Phi TC tonight with the new headband...big shout out to Joe and the team for continuing to strive to make these headphones even better! I have a 7 3/4" hat size and I find this new headband quite a bit more comfortable than the original. The extra padding really helps. Queen has never sounded better than through these awesome headphones!


How did the old headband fit? Did the cups sit a little low and the new headband raised them up due to extra thickness? Or did you change out O-rings? I find the cups sit a little low for me. New headband might fix that small issue.


----------



## MacedonianHero

JLoud said:


> How did the old headband fit? Did the cups sit a little low and the new headband raised them up due to extra thickness? Or did you change out O-rings? I find the cups sit a little low for me. New headband might fix that small issue.


They do sit a little lower...very much welcomed for me...and the added padding improved the comfort on the top of my head.


----------



## Litlgi74

JLoud said:


> How did the old headband fit? Did the cups sit a little low and the new headband raised them up due to extra thickness? Or did you change out O-rings? I find the cups sit a little low for me. New headband might fix that small issue.


I had the same issue... The new headband fixed it for me.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Hi Everyone,
Has anybody tested the minimum power output required from a Headphone Amp to drive the 1266's to their ability that show's their full characteristics ?


----------



## paradoxper

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Hi Everyone,
> Has anybody tested the minimum power output required from a Headphone Amp to drive the 1266's to their ability that show's their full characteristics ?


I think you're going to solicit any number of answers due to the nature of the question.

I'd throw my hat in and say 5 watt minimum. But there really are a number of things to take into consideration.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> I think you're going to solicit any number of answers due to the nature of the question.
> 
> I'd throw my hat in and say 5 watt minimum. But there really are a number of things to take into consideration.



+1

There’s a lot more factors that are as important, or even more important than power that give you a great sounding amp.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

ken6217 said:


> +1
> 
> There’s a lot more factors that are as important, or even more important than power that give you a great sounding amp.


Thank you paradoxper & ken6217 for your replies and feedback.  Much appreciated.  
It's just to get a feel for what Amps I can carry on researching into and one's I can drop due to them not having enough power.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Thank you paradoxper & ken6217 for your replies and feedback.  Much appreciated.
> It's just to get a feel for what Amps I can carry on researching into and one's I can drop due to them not having enough power.


I have been looking at the following Headphone Amps to drive the Abyss 1266 and HiFiman Susvara ;
1) Trafomatic Audio Primavera
2) Woo Audio WA33
3) XI Audio Formula S + Powerman combo
4) Trafomatic Audio Head 2 

I was also looking in detail at both the Viva Audio Egoista 845 and 2a3 Headphone Amps and was seriously considering a second hand 845 currently advertised on Head-Fi.org. However from watching one of the Abyss Youtube videos over weekend gone, they stated that they had heard horror stories about people's 1266's frying from a malfunction of the 845 as there is no safety mechanism for the 845 to stop any high power surges going ti the headphones and that the 845 is basically a speak amp turned into a Headphone Amp.

If we are now looking at say 4 to 5W minimum then I can drop the Trafomatic Audio Head 2.  

On another forum a Head-Fi member also quoted the Riviera AIC-10 !


----------



## typalder

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> I have been looking at the following Headphone Amps to drive the Abyss 1266 and HiFiman Susvara ;
> 1) Trafomatic Audio Primavera
> 2) Woo Audio WA33
> 3) XI Audio Formula S + Powerman combo
> ...


or go for an good quality stereo integrated via the speaker taps. cheaper and mostly better in my experience. and yes, i have the 1266 too and tested a lot of different amps


----------



## JLoud

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> I have been looking at the following Headphone Amps to drive the Abyss 1266 and HiFiman Susvara ;
> 1) Trafomatic Audio Primavera
> 2) Woo Audio WA33
> 3) XI Audio Formula S + Powerman combo
> ...


I have the WA33 and it is simply fantastic with the TC. It also sounds great with the LCD4 and HE6se. As far as power, I have a Schiit Magnious which is rated at 3.6 watts into 50 Ohms. That theoretically should be enough. But the TC sounds thin on it. Quality is probably the most important part of the amp, but current delivery is as well. Abyss has a review of the WA33 on their YouTube channel. Might be worth watching if you haven't already.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

typalder said:


> or go for an good quality stereo integrated via the speaker taps. cheaper and mostly better in my experience. and yes, i have the 1266 too and tested a lot of different amps


I don't need to buy an integrated speaker amp as I have the Chord Choral Mezzo 140 Power Amps as part of my overall Chord Choral Speaker System.   But Abyss stated in one of their YouTube videos that your taking  a chance of damaging the headphones using a Speaker Power Amp even with the 1266's !


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

JLoud said:


> I have the WA33 and it is simply fantastic with the TC. It also sounds great with the LCD4 and HE6se. As far as power, I have a Schiit Magnious which is rated at 3.6 watts into 50 Ohms. That theoretically should be enough. But the TC sounds thin on it. Quality is probably the most important part of the amp, but current delivery is as well. Abyss has a review of the WA33 on their YouTube channel. Might be worth watching if you haven't already.


Thank you for your reply and feedback JLoud.   Much appreciated.  Yes I have watched the Abyss YouTube video on the WA33. Good video.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> I don't need to buy an integrated speaker amp as I have the Chord Choral Mezzo 140 Power Amps as part of my overall Chord Choral Speaker System.   But Abyss stated in one of their YouTube videos that your taking  a chance of damaging the headphones using a Speaker Power Amp even with the 1266's !


Sorry typalder.   I forgot to thank you for your reply and useful feedback.  Much appreciated.


----------



## paradoxper

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> I don't need to buy an integrated speaker amp as I have the Chord Choral Mezzo 140 Power Amps as part of my overall Chord Choral Speaker System.   But Abyss stated in one of their YouTube videos that your taking  a chance of damaging the headphones using a Speaker Power Amp even with the 1266's !


I'm not sure they provided any qualifier with that statement. As long as you're reasonable, you'll be fine. As well, as long as the amplifier is competently designed, you'll be fine.

I've tested the Abyss with the Pass Labs INT-150 at full volume which is about 10W. I've attempted conversely with my Kevin Gilmore CFA which outputs 16W but the levels were severely ear deafening so I wouldn't be too worried as long as you implement good practice as has been the case, for example, with the HE-6 on integrated/power amplifiers for years.


----------



## ken6217

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> I don't need to buy an integrated speaker amp as I have the Chord Choral Mezzo 140 Power Amps as part of my overall Chord Choral Speaker System.   But Abyss stated in one of their YouTube videos that your taking  a chance of damaging the headphones using a Speaker Power Amp even with the 1266's !



Only if you’re careless.  Amp on last, amp off first.


----------



## tholt

typalder said:


> or go for an good quality stereo integrated via the speaker taps. cheaper and mostly better in my experience. and yes, i have the 1266 too and tested a lot of different amps


I've tried a couple integrateds. My issue on both was too much gain. Hardly had any play with the volume knob before things got too loud. Made sense to me, since any integrated is made to output at much lower impedances than headphones. So IME, this is something to consider. One cannot just get any integrated and assume it will work.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

paradoxper said:


> I'm not sure they provided any qualifier with that statement. As long as you're reasonable, you'll be fine. As well, as long as the amplifier is competently designed, you'll be fine.
> 
> I've tested the Abyss with the Pass Labs INT-150 at full volume which is about 10W. I've attempted conversely with my Kevin Gilmore CFA which outputs 16W but the levels were severely ear deafening so I wouldn't be too worried as long as you implement good practice as has been the case, for example, with the HE-6 on integrated/power amplifiers for years.


My single Chord Mezzo 140 is 120W per channel into 8 Ohms and my twin mono blocked Chord Mezzo 140's are 240W into 8 Ohms.


----------



## paradoxper

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> My single Chord Mezzo 140 is 120W per channel into 8 Ohms and my twin mono blocked Chord Mezzo 140's are 240W into 8 Ohms.


Right. Now consider the 50 ohm impedance. Do the math of 22 watts. Plenty headroom. Also consider how much of that output is Class A.

The point being, you are perfectly fine.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

paradoxper said:


> Right. Now consider the 50 ohm impedance. Do the math of 22 watts. Plenty headroom. Also consider how much of that output is Class A.
> 
> The point being, you are perfectly fine.


Thank you for your feedback paradoxper.  Much appreciated.   If I can get away with using one Mezzo 140 (being very careful with the volume controlled by my Chord DAVE) with the 1266 this would be great as the sound from them to my Focal Electra Be Speakers sounds fantastic.


----------



## paradoxper

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Thank you for your feedback paradoxper.  Much appreciated.   If I can get away with using one Mezzo 140 (being very careful with the volume controlled by my Chord DAVE) with the 1266 this would be great as the sound from them to my Focal Electra Be Speakers sounds fantastic.


I think you'll find speaker amplifiers level up planar drive, say, better than 96% of headamps out there.

Good luck on your journey!


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

paradoxper said:


> I think you'll find speaker amplifiers level up planar drive, say, better than 96% of headamps out there.
> 
> Good luck on your journey!


Being so absorbed with researching into TOTL Headphone Amps and the Abyss 1266, I realised about 10 mins ago that when I had a pair of HiFiMan HE6's (about 2 years ago) I used my Mezzo 140 connected direct from the speaker taps with a cable made up for me from CustomCables in the UK.  Sounded pretty good.  I couldn't listen for long though due to the weight of the HE6's and having quite a small head, they were also very loose fitting which didn't help ! 

Just been reading up on this website;   https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/tutorials/power-amp-adapter/


----------



## spacelion2077

I'm thinking about upgrading my Topping A90 to a tube amp. What are some of the good tube amps that can bring out the most out of 1266 TC, is Woo Wa33 the recommended tube amp to drive it? I also have heard good things about the pathos tube headphone amp. Not sure which one is better.


----------



## Ciggavelli

spacelion2077 said:


> I'm thinking about upgrading my Topping A90 to a tube amp. What are some of the good tube amps that can bring out the most out of 1266 TC, is Woo Wa33 the recommended tube amp to drive it? I also have heard good things about the pathos tube headphone amp. Not sure which one is better.


Yeah, the wa33 is a recommended amp. Several of us have it. You can even get JPS aluminoy wiring as an option.


----------



## Roasty

Has anyone tried any new EQs lately? 




I'm quite liking this one. It's from the one posted here a while back, with slight tweaks, and I added high and low shelves.


----------



## mvvRAZ

1266 TC is in the house!


----------



## JLoud

Congratulations. Enjoy. Now get off the keyboard and start listening 😁


----------



## mvvRAZ

JLoud said:


> Congratulations. Enjoy. Now get off the keyboard and start listening 😁


But but... I only listen when I’m in front of my keyboard


----------



## mvvRAZ

The full lineup!


----------



## Hoegaardener70

That is an intense colour!


----------



## mvvRAZ

Hoegaardener70 said:


> That is an intense colour!


Matches the amp!


----------



## tholt

Was the custom color done by Abyss?


----------



## silversurfer616

mvvRAZ said:


> The full lineup!


Love *room with a view*. May I ask what city this is? Thanks.


----------



## mvvRAZ

silversurfer616 said:


> Love *room with a view*. May I ask what city this is? Thanks.


Barcelona!  been living here part time for a while now


----------



## mvvRAZ

tholt said:


> Was the custom color done by Abyss?


Yup 1000$ but they can do all kinds of wild stuff, like custom grills, and exotic leathers - your imagination is the limit but in my case it was the wallet


----------



## nrbatista

spacelion2077 said:


> I'm thinking about upgrading my Topping A90 to a tube amp. What are some of the good tube amps that can bring out the most out of 1266 TC, is Woo Wa33 the recommended tube amp to drive it? I also have heard good things about the pathos tube headphone amp. Not sure which one is better.



I have a Fezz Audio Omega Lupi and it drives the TC’s amazingly well.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Do you guys have any stand recommendations? The Rooms one looks great, but I’d like to consider my options


----------



## nrbatista

mvvRAZ said:


> Do you guys have any stand recommendations? The Rooms one looks great, but I’d like to consider my options


Is there any option ?


----------



## Ciggavelli

mvvRAZ said:


> Do you guys have any stand recommendations? The Rooms one looks great, but I’d like to consider my options


https://www.headphoneauditions.nl/product/haa-abyss-stand/

I have it.  It's perfect for the TCs


----------



## JLoud

Dana Reed said:


> Where am I going to get the 1.21 gigawatts to power that kind of amp?  I only have 100 amp service in my old house, future boy!





Ciggavelli said:


> https://www.headphoneauditions.nl/product/haa-abyss-stand/
> 
> I have it.  It's perfect for the TCs


This is the stand I plan on getting. Can it accommodate slight toe in of the headband? I have mine adjusted forward a bit and would hate to have to readjust every time I take it off the stand.


----------



## nrbatista

JLoud said:


> This is the stand I plan on getting. Can it accommodate slight toe in of the headband? I have mine adjusted forward a bit and would hate to have to readjust every time I take it off the stand.



Yes, it does, at least for the toe in I’m using. Never have to re adjust.


----------



## Ritvik

Hi there. Looking to pick up a DAC+AMP combo that would drive the TC well. Looking out for suggestions. I've been out of the scene for a while so I'm not too sure where to start looking!

Looking to keep costs down to a minimum as this is a temporary purchase until I have the funds and desk space for something nicer. 

Also, I dont stream music via any web based service so those slightly fancier features aren't too important.


----------



## ufospls2

In terms of a combo unit, the best I have used are the Simaudio Moon 430HAD, and and Chord Hugo TT2. However, the TT2 in particular is too much in terms of cost, though you may be able to get an OK deal on a used 430HAD. 

In terms of cheaper options, the new iFi iDSD Micro Signature is certainly one to consider. I own the Black Label micro iDSD, and I can only imagine the Signature is the same or better.


----------



## jlbrach

the TT2 DAC is head and shoulders better than the moon...not even close


----------



## ufospls2

jlbrach said:


> the TT2 DAC is head and shoulders better than the moon...not even close


 

Agreed, but on a budget, its probably out of his range.


----------



## Bonddam

Just bought a Wells Audio Reference Milo which puts out 10 watts into 46 ohms. Needed ss because got too many tubes and I found a place to hide it from the wife but I’m screwed when my custom amp comes in February. If Milo pans out with TC might sell WA33. Only good thing about that is saving on expensive tubes. The custom amp is Ultra Sonic Studios Custom Citadel.


----------



## tholt

Bonddam said:


> Just bought a Wells Audio Reference Milo which puts out 10 watts into 46 ohms. Needed ss because got too many tubes and I found a place to hide it from the wife but I’m screwed when my custom amp comes in February. If Milo pans out with TC might sell WA33. Only good thing about that is saving on expensive tubes. The custom amp is Ultra Sonic Studios Custom Citadel.


I liked the Milo. A bit warm sounding from memory, plenty of drive for the 1266. Congrats on the new amp. I've always been curious about their Oblivion.


----------



## MaggotBrain

I see an audio-gd Master 7 on sale in the classifieds for $1300 and that would be a tremendous budget option. Plenty of power for the Abyss and pound-for-pound a great value.


----------



## MatW

nrbatista said:


> Yes, it does, at least for the toe in I’m using. Never have to re adjust.


I don't do this myself, but if you want, you can also toe the holders of the stand in or out, to match your preferred position of the frame.


----------



## Abyss Headphones (Nov 19, 2020)

Singer songwriter Sam Godus and recording engineer Douglas Stephens discuss her music and the recordings at Abyss Recordings...


----------



## TheMiddleSky

mvvRAZ said:


> The full lineup!



Beautiful headphones in beautiful ambience!


----------



## Roasty

I remembered I had some ultrashort lemo to abyss connectors. Decided to give the Arctic Cable Palladium a go with the 1266.





Well, the sound is really quite close to the SC cable. Palladium has very slightly more low end punch/thump. It also has just a tad more energy up top. On some songs this also makes it sound a smidgen congested. 

SC has better separation and more pleasant highs. Voices sound less gritty and more luscious. 

Honestly, the differences are seriously minute/miniscule at best. I was only able to make them out because I was listening for very specific things. Did quick a/b of short sections at a time, without removing the abyss off my head. 

I think anyone would be happy with either cable. Price wise the palladium is a few hundred cheaper.


----------



## Ritvik (Nov 20, 2020)

Thanks for the suggestions. The TT2 is probably a bit too much of a stretch. But this along with some of the other suggestions could work out if I chose to buy pre-loved items.

Has anyone tried the VE Defiant with the TCs? Could possibly get one off a friend at a pretty decent price and pair it with something like a used QUTEST (which has a fairly small footprint).


----------



## Blueoris

Trance_Gott said:


> My Utopia is on the way. Would be fun to test against TC, RAD0, Stellia and 007.
> I had the Utopia 3 years ago. Think the dynamic impact is unmatched and instrument separation is better then SR009s which was my last reference for that terms.
> We will see.



A fair test against TC (or between two different headphones really), would require to match sound pressures at a level where the smaller, cheaper (or more sensitive) headphone plays good, otherwise the lesser headphone may sound distorted or "boring" in comparison.

This can be easily done with a 1k test tone and a free DB meter app for a smartphone.


----------



## ajaipuriyar

If anyone has experienced the TC with Viva amps, specially the Solista. Would like to hear some feedback on the synergy.
Thnx


----------



## yagislav

Thinking of getting a WA33 blind since there is nowhere in Vancouver, BC for me to test one out..

Where did everybody go to buy theirs? Is there a better deal that be had than the retail pricing listed on the Woo Audio website?


----------



## Ciggavelli

yagislav said:


> Thinking of getting a WA33 blind since there is nowhere in Vancouver, BC for me to test one out..
> 
> Where did everybody go to buy theirs? Is there a better deal that be had than the retail pricing listed on the Woo Audio website?


I bought the my WA33 standard blind from my dealer.  I then traded up and bought the WA33 EE JPS from my dealer, and I did not regret the purchases at all.  I love my WA33.  There's a reason why a lot of members here have the WA33.  It's really that good.  I can't recommend it enough


----------



## JLoud

I believe the last couple of years at least they have had a thanksgiving sale. 10% off regular price. Should start soon if they do it.


----------



## Bonddam

The WA33 is 7199 right now till nov 30


----------



## JLoud

There you go. 10% off. Thanks Bonddam I hadn’t looked at the site in a couple days.


----------



## Bonddam

I discovered I cant wear the 1266 loose. Does anyone else have to have a light seal? If I wear them with a gap I get low frequency pressure only on one side.  Even though the fit works I can't move my head needs to be straight forward.


----------



## MatW (Nov 21, 2020)

If I need it to be tighter I toe them in to create a bit of a grip around the temple area. Or just leave them straight and create a seal all around. Imo they still sound great with a seal.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Ciggavelli said:


> I bought the my WA33 standard blind from my dealer.  I then traded up and bought the WA33 EE JPS from my dealer, and I did not regret the purchases at all.  I love my WA33.  There's a reason why a lot of members here have the WA33.  It's really that good.  I can't recommend it enough


Hi Ciggavelli, Wondered if you have done a comparison between the Standard WA33 and the EE JPS version on the WA33 forum ?   Would be great to know if the much higher additional cost is worth it !


----------



## simorag (Nov 21, 2020)

ajaipuriyar said:


> If anyone has experienced the TC with Viva amps, specially the Solista. Would like to hear some feedback on the synergy.
> Thnx



Hello, I have tried the TC with both the Egoista 845 and the Solista. The pairing is outstanding IMO, especially with the Solista, which takes the capabilities of the AB-1266 of sounding very big, three dimensional yet still spatially very resolving to the max. Listening to large scale classical with the Solista and the TC is sensational, for example.

Actually, as I reported in my very subjective, partial, arbitrary ranking here, the Solista is the amp I liked the most ever with the TC, together with the Riviera AIC-10.

Note that the Viva amps are far from the tube amp cliché as they are very transparent, have great clarity, dynamics, speed and plenty of punch, together with a linear-neutral timbre balance. I prefer the AIC-10 overall just because, depending on the ECC82 tube in the preamp stage, I could fine tune its tonality to a somewhat warmer, more euphonic character which suites the TC overall signature best to my tastes.

I guess one can do the same by rolling the 845 tubes in the Solista, at a significant extra cost though ...


----------



## nrbatista

simorag said:


> Actually, as I reported in my very subjective, partial, arbitrary ranking here, the Solista is the amp I liked the most ever with the TC, together with the Riviera AIC-10.



As you ever tried the Fezz Audio Omega Lupi with the TC’s? It doesn’t belong to the same “league” budget wise as all of those you have in your rank, but I’m finding it very good with the TC for my ears.


----------



## simorag

nrbatista said:


> As you ever tried the Fezz Audio Omega Lupi with the TC’s? It doesn’t belong to the same “league” budget wise as all of those you have in your rank, but I’m finding it very good with the TC for my ears.



Hi, I didn't try the Omega Lupi, unfortunately. Fezz products seem to have great value though,, so I am not surprised you enjoy your amp. I was close to arrange a demo of the Titania (for a secondary rig with speakers and SR1a) but the pandemic made me postpone that journey for the moment ...


----------



## FLTWS (Nov 21, 2020)

Bonddam said:


> I discovered I cant wear the 1266 loose. Does anyone else have to have a light seal? If I wear them with a gap I get low frequency pressure only on one side.  Even though the fit works I can't move my head needs to be straight forward.



Loose is a relative term. How loose? I have to extend the frame (on my Phi CC) as wide as it will go just to get them on and there is no gap that I can slide something into. It's not a gap, its more a sense that the pressure all the way around the ear pad varies. (example; the various Senn's I've owned, the Utopia and Oppo PM-1 when I owned them, gave equal pressure all the way around the earpad). As I change the angle of the top frame in conjunction with the rotational position of the ear pads on my Phi, the earpads pressure moves to different points around my ear, (skull / jawline). When the pressure feels least on the bottom of the earpad (below the ear against my jaw) I get maximum bass output for the shape of my head. But there is no gap in the sense that one could see through.

Are your ear pads mirror imaged with respect to the position of the seam?


----------



## mvvRAZ

1266TC and Phi CC comparison/impressions coming up tonight!

In the meantime, if anyone is interested in a 1266 TC stock cable, please let me know as I’m looking to sell mine


----------



## jlbrach

I suppose if you spend an enormous amount you can do better than the formula s/powerman but to be honest if your primary HP is the TC or even the sisvara I really havent heard a whole lot better.....


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

jlbrach said:


> I suppose if you spend an enormous amount you can do better than the formula s/powerman but to be honest if your primary HP is the TC or even the sisvara I really havent heard a whole lot better.....


Some folk are saying the Woo WA33 is overall more superior from a sound prospective to the Formula S with Powerman with the 1266 TC's albeit the WA33 is a lot more expensive especially with upgraded tubes and three times the cost for the full blown Elite & JPS version !   The WA33 is such a good looker too !


----------



## ajaipuriyar

simorag said:


> Hello, I have tried the TC with both the Egoista 845 and the Solista. The pairing is outstanding IMO, especially with the Solista, which takes the capabilities of the AB-1266 of sounding very big, three dimensional yet still spatially very resolving to the max. Listening to large scale classical, for example, with the Solista and the TC is sensational, for example.
> 
> Actually, as I reported in my very subjective, partial, arbitrary ranking here, the Solista is the amp I liked the most ever with the TC, together with the Riviera AIC-10.
> 
> ...



Thanks. I ordered the Solista today in black and red. It will join my Headtrip Reference to drive the TC and Susvara.

 AIC was definitely on my radar but I got a good deal on the Solista. More importantly, I got an enthusiastic thumbs-up from my wife on how it looks.


----------



## mvvRAZ

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/razs-totl-review-and-rambles-thread.916021/page-67#post-15990075

Here we go!


----------



## tholt

mvvRAZ said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/razs-totl-review-and-rambles-thread.916021/page-67#post-15990075
> 
> Here we go!


Great review. Pretty accurate description IMO. Insane detail, a little thin and cool overall, but technical marvels. I also agree with the soundstaging comments, although you can vary that by making the headband wider or narrower, and also by bending the frame arms in/out, but you will also change other sonic characteristics by doing so. The Abyss are a balancing act getting the right sound for your tastes, but will always sound like Abyss regardless.

_"When I was first listening to them I couldn't even focus on the music because of the sheer amount of stuff that was happening."_ -- so true


----------



## vonBaron

1266 are thin? I don't think so!


----------



## mvvRAZ

tholt said:


> Great review. Pretty accurate description IMO. Insane detail, a little thin and cool overall, but technical marvels. I also agree with the soundstaging comments, although you can vary that by making the headband wider or narrower, and also by bending the frame arms in/out, but you will also change other sonic characteristics by doing so. The Abyss are a balancing act getting the right sound for your tastes, but will always sound like Abyss regardless.
> 
> _"When I was first listening to them I couldn't even focus on the music because of the sheer amount of stuff that was happening."_ -- so true


Thank you!

Fitting any Abyss takes quite a lot of fiddling around, it’s one of those experiences where you adjust to the headphones as opposed to the headphones adjusting to you  

I personally wouldn’t say they’re thin, as the texturing is among the best I’ve heard, but they’re most certainly very cold - the bass manages to balance that out really well, if these didn’t hit as hard as they do they’d come across as extremely clinical imo


----------



## tholt

Maybe a bit 'cold' is a better description. Certainly hyper-detailed, so might come off as that to me. Warming up the sound with amp and/or cables helps for my subjective tastes.


----------



## mvvRAZ

tholt said:


> Maybe a bit 'cold' is a better description. Certainly hyper-detailed, so might come off as that to me. Warming up the sound with amp and/or cables helps for my subjective tastes.


I’ve been using it with the HeadAmp GSX Mini which is pretty warm and the pairing is lovely. I am considering adding a tube pre-amp to the mix just to warm up the midrange a little more 

What did you find best results with?


----------



## vonBaron

I think Susvara is even more detalited than my 1266 Phi but for me it's too much... And they don't have this insane bass. Yeah slighty warm setup is best for 1266.


tholt said:


> Maybe a bit 'cold' is a better description. Certainly hyper-detailed, so might come off as that to me. Warming up the sound with amp and/or cables helps for my subjective tastes.


----------



## vonBaron

mvvRAZ said:


> I’ve been using it with the HeadAmp GSX Mini which is pretty warm and the pairing is lovely. I am considering adding a tube pre-amp to the mix just to warm up the midrange a little more
> 
> What did you find best results with?


Did you try Pro ICan with better tubes?


----------



## mvvRAZ

vonBaron said:


> Did you try Pro ICan with better tubes?



I generally don’t want to overspend at the moment which is why I’d prefer to stay with the HeadAmp, and just add a cheaper, warm pre-amp to the mix. Maybe something like the Cayin HA1A Mk2?


----------



## vonBaron

I never heard  Cayin HA1A .
GS-X mini is still great with 1266.


----------



## tholt

mvvRAZ said:


> I’ve been using it with the HeadAmp GSX Mini which is pretty warm and the pairing is lovely. I am considering adding a tube pre-amp to the mix just to warm up the midrange a little more
> 
> What did you find best results with?


On the SS side, probably the V281 or upgraded Wells Milo. Both are on the warmer side, plenty of power. But haven't had either of those in a while so going on memory. For tubes I've had two that worked well for my tastes, an older ampsandsound SE-84 (EL-84 based) and their Mogwai SE. Surprising me right now is the $300 Drop THX 789. I only bought it to test something with, but for $300, it's more than good. Not reference by any means, but way more enjoyable than I would have thought.


----------



## Trance_Gott

I drive the Abyss 1266 Phi TC with the V281 (relais volume control) plenty power with gigantic punch and great tonality. Never bright or warm it's perfect in the middle.


----------



## vonBaron

tholt said:


> On the SS side, probably the V281 or upgraded Wells Milo. Both are on the warmer side, plenty of power. But haven't had either of those in a while so going on memory. For tubes I've had two that worked well for my tastes, an older ampsandsound SE-84 (EL-84 based) and their Mogwai SE. Surprising me right now is the $300 Drop THX 789. I only bought it to test something with, but for $300, it's more than good. Not reference by any means, but way more enjoyable than I would have thought.


Like for MIlo, excellety paring with 1266!


----------



## Ciggavelli

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Hi Ciggavelli, Wondered if you have done a comparison between the Standard WA33 and the EE JPS version on the WA33 forum ?   Would be great to know if the much higher additional cost is worth it !


I haven't done a formal review, but the WA33 EE JPS is better in every way.  The WA33 standard is amazing in its own right, but the WA33 EE JPS pushes it up another notch.  There's more weight, the soundstage is a bit larger (you really feel like instruments are all outside of your head), the bass hits a little harder, and the treble is a bit sweeter.  

Prior to the EE JPS, I was a little disappointed in my Susvaras.  I loved the TCs, but the Susvaras were missing something.  I was going to sell them, but decided to wait until the EE JPS arrived.  I'm so glad I didn't sell them.  The Susvaras sound amazing out of the EE JPS.  They scaled up very well.   The TCs also scaled up, but I've always liked them.  I was just pretty blown away with the differences between the Standard and EE JPS with the Susvaras.  

Now, is the increased price worth it?  It was for me, but objectively, it's not 2 times better.  It's better, for sure, but from a pure dollar amount, you're paying twice aw much for the EE JPS, but not getting twice the performance boost.  I would say you get 1.5x of an increase though.  

I don't regret my EE JPS purchase at all.  Would I have bought the EE JPS first, knowing what I know now?  I definitely would, but I don't regret buying my WA33 standard first though.  It introduced me to the sound of the WA33.  The $8K list price is easier to swallow than the $17K price of the EE JPS.  $17k is a lot to spend on an an item you have never heard. So, it's probably more responsible to buy the Standard first...hahaha.  But if you want the best of the best, the EE JPS is the amp to have


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Ciggavelli said:


> I haven't done a formal review, but the WA33 EE JPS is better in every way.  The WA33 standard is amazing in its own right, but the WA33 EE JPS pushes it up another notch.  There's more weight, the soundstage is a bit larger (you really feel like instruments are all outside of your head), the bass hits a little harder, and the treble is a bit sweeter.
> 
> Prior to the EE JPS, I was a little disappointed in my Susvaras.  I loved the TCs, but the Susvaras were missing something.  I was going to sell them, but decided to wait until the EE JPS arrived.  I'm so glad I didn't sell them.  The Susvaras sound amazing out of the EE JPS.  They scaled up very well.   The TCs also scaled up, but I've always liked them.  I was just pretty blown away with the differences between the Standard and EE JPS with the Susvaras.
> 
> ...


Hi Ciggavelli,   Thank you very much for your very helpful reply and and your experiences with the standard WA33 and the EE JPS version.  Very much appreciated.


----------



## Roasty

Ciggavelli said:


> I haven't done a formal review, but the WA33 EE JPS is better in every way.  The WA33 standard is amazing in its own right, but the WA33 EE JPS pushes it up another notch.  There's more weight, the soundstage is a bit larger (you really feel like instruments are all outside of your head), the bass hits a little harder, and the treble is a bit sweeter.
> 
> Prior to the EE JPS, I was a little disappointed in my Susvaras.  I loved the TCs, but the Susvaras were missing something.  I was going to sell them, but decided to wait until the EE JPS arrived.  I'm so glad I didn't sell them.  The Susvaras sound amazing out of the EE JPS.  They scaled up very well.   The TCs also scaled up, but I've always liked them.  I was just pretty blown away with the differences between the Standard and EE JPS with the Susvaras.
> 
> ...



I just got my wa33 jps non EE, and this post doesn't help me at all LOL!


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> I just got my wa33 jps non EE, and this post doesn't help me at all LOL!


You can at least claim it's 100000x better than a WA22.


----------



## Roasty

attmci said:


> You can at least claim it's 100000x better than a WA22.



WA22 is still a good amp, when paired with nice tubes! I think I actually prefer the Utopia with the wa22 over the 33.


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> WA22 is still a good amp, when paired with nice tubes! I think I actually prefer the Utopia with the wa22 over the 33.


What tubes are or did (?) you using in your WA22?


----------



## Roasty

joseph69 said:


> What tubes are or did (?) you using in your WA22?



Tak274b, mullard ECC35, we421a


----------



## MrCypruz

Roasty said:


> WA22 is still a good amp, when paired with nice tubes! I think I actually prefer the Utopia with the wa22 over the 33.


Blasphemy!!!!!!

LOL...I kid I kid!


----------



## Roasty

MrCypruz said:


> Blasphemy!!!!!!
> 
> LOL...I kid I kid!



You know what's blasphemy? 
I actually think there may be a bit too much bass and mid bass on the Utopia with the WA33... LOL!


----------



## MrCypruz

Roasty said:


> You know what's blasphemy?
> I actually think there may be a bit too much bass and mid bass on the Utopia with the WA33... LOL!


That’s the magic sauce, plus an expanded stage brother! The WA33 make the Utopia sing...the WA22 might make them sing AND dance!


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> You know what's blasphemy?
> I actually think there may be a bit too much bass and mid bass on the Utopia with the WA33... LOL!


Wait 'til your tubes have sufficient burn in. 
I found the Utopia to scale exceptionally well with the WA33. I actually bought the WA33 based on listening to it (in home) paired with the Utopia.


----------



## attmci (Nov 22, 2020)

joseph69 said:


> Wait 'til your tubes have sufficient burn in.
> I found the Utopia to scale exceptionally well with the WA33. I actually bought the WA33 based on listening to it (in home) paired with the Utopia.


HEY, I believe you already get rid of the WA33. No? 

First gen WA22 is very good for it's price (close to a couple of premium tubes). Not sure about the current gen 2.


----------



## joseph69

attmci said:


> HEY, I believe you already get rid of the WA33. No?
> 
> First gen WA22 is very good for it's price (close to a couple of premium tubes). Not sure about the current gen 2.


Yes, unfortunately I did sell my WA33 to @JLoud.
This was THE worse decision I've ever made and very much regret doing so, but at the time I think I was using the WA33 so much that I'd just grown tired of it and needed a change. I should've just stop listening to it for a while instead of selling it, then I would've realized and appreciated it again. I'm sure both, the 1st & 2nd generation WA22's are excellent sounding amps, but even though I've never heard either, I'd rather put my money towards a WA33 again knowing what I'd be getting out of it.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

vonBaron said:


> Did you try Pro ICan with better tubes?



Splendid amp with the upgraded tubes for the tc ...


----------



## InstantSilence

Had anyone here tried the topping A90 with thr TC? I know it's a cheap amp, but still wondering if it's detail and resolution is anything serious with the TC?


----------



## MacedonianHero

InstantSilence said:


> Had anyone here tried the topping A90 with thr TC? I know it's a cheap amp, but still wondering if it's detail and resolution is anything serious with the TC?


I have...enough power to drive them...but I came away disappointed. They held them back from what I'm used to with these headphones...they can scale and scale and the A90 doesn't let them hit their stride.


----------



## Sonic Guild

Finally I got my 1266 this afternoon 
Wow wow wow looks and feels great! SOLID 
Unfortunately, my amp RME ADI-2 PRO will arrive next week 
I will keep admiring the beauty of the 1266 till I receive the amp.

Meanwhile, can someone tel me about the fit and the tilt methods and how it affects the sound?More bass, less bass, better soundstage...etc.
if the sound changes with the position dramatically, how Abyss manages to measure the performance. I mean what is the optimum position that was used to take the final FR measurements for the 1266?

Surprisingly, the 1266 is comfortable and secure on the head. I think that I can wear it for 2 hours straight with no issues.


----------



## MatW

Sonic Guild said:


> Finally I got my 1266 this afternoon
> Wow wow wow looks and feels great! SOLID
> Unfortunately, my amp RME ADI-2 PRO will arrive next week
> I will keep admiring the beauty of the 1266 till I receive the amp.
> ...


Congrats! You won't regret it. See this post for the Abyss videos on getting started and adjusting the fit.


----------



## Mikey99

Sonic Guild said:


> Finally I got my 1266 this afternoon
> Wow wow wow looks and feels great! SOLID
> Unfortunately, my amp RME ADI-2 PRO will arrive next week
> I will keep admiring the beauty of the 1266 till I receive the amp.
> ...


I also find it quite comfortable, I can wear it for hours on end with no discomfort.


----------



## JLoud

I like that you know you can wear it for two hours comfortably, and you don't even have an amp yet.  Think how comfortable it will be with music. And did you get any funny looks wearing it while NOT listening to music.


----------



## Bonddam

Today my Wells Audio Reference Milo showed up and it amazing. If you can’t get WA33 because of cost maybe regular Milo is a good option. It’s 10 watts at 46 ohms and has prat. It almost has a tube sound. It’s faster then WA33 which is more romantic. If your budget is 8000 go WA33 if that’s going to be your only headphone. 
A night and day difference was Kennerton Thekk I found the sound more exciting then the Woo. No I wouldn’t sell my WA33 as it has that tube magic but I see myself only using WA33 for my 1266 TC.


----------



## vonBaron (Nov 24, 2020)

I only heard Milo "almost reference" and yes, it's very good synergy but my GS-X mini is more universal.

For more warm HP like D8000 or LCD-4 Milo is not the best choice.


----------



## Bonddam

Mikey99 said:


> I also find it quite comfortable, I can wear it for hours on end with no discomfort.


The problem with the 1266 is that their isn’t a position that can be recommended, it’s different for everybody. My issue is bass I spent countless times fitting it and long time to find it. My issue is the if I use a gap I loose bass on one side. Also I have to sit straight so it’s equal on both sides. If I move my head left or right I loose bass on one side. Soundstage was easy to find. So play with it until you find your fit.


----------



## Bonddam (Nov 24, 2020)

vonBaron said:


> I only heard Milo "almost reference" and yes, it's very good synergy but my GS-X mini is more universal.
> 
> For more warm HP like D8000 or LCD-4 Milo is not the best choice.


I find Milo better then mini and yes I owned the mini for good amount of time. Never liked D8000 pro or LCD4 on any amp I’ve owned. Issue was not enough bass on the 4 and D8000 pro didn’t have a Harmon curve.


----------



## vonBaron

But i aggre that Milo sound like good tube amp.


----------



## Bonddam

I found the mini really good just enjoying one over the other. The lower end on the mini is very strong, with a slight warm presentation with great treble makes it my 2nd favorite. Now I still have to test more headphones to see if I find the Milo universal.


----------



## jlbrach

Bonddam said:


> I find Milo better then mini and yes I owned the mini for good amount of time. Never liked D8000 pro or LCD4 on any amp I’ve owned. Issue was not enough bass on the 4 and D8000 pro didn’t have a Harmon curve.


not enough bass on the lcd-4?????Are we talking bout the audeze?I mean seriously?


----------



## Roasty

jlbrach said:


> not enough bass on the lcd-4?????Are we talking bout the audeze?I mean seriously?



Lol keep in mind that statement is coming from Bonddam..


----------



## Bonddam (Nov 24, 2020)

jlbrach said:


> not enough bass on the lcd-4?????Are we talking bout the audeze?I mean seriously?


I use too compete heavily in IASCA(car audio) so I know my bass. When my car was taken out of SQ mode I was hitting 140db with 2 12’s in sealed enclosure.
So I know my bass!!!!!!!
Closes headphone is the 1266 tc to make me feel like a kid again or young adult.
My Stax SR-009s has more bass then that LCD4.


----------



## jlbrach

aha!...explains a lot


----------



## Sonic Guild

JLoud said:


> I like that you know you can wear it for two hours comfortably, and you don't even have an amp yet.  Think how comfortable it will be with music. And did you get any funny looks wearing it while NOT listening to music.


Hahaha yesterday I placed them on my head (no cable attached) and worked on my computer for an hour 
My only concern is about the two rubber strings on both side. When I expand the metal band o the max, it creates a tension on the rubber strings. I am not quite sure for how long the strings will last. Maybe I have to buy spare strings because I am leaving North America for along (2 years) business trip. Or may I am paranoid


----------



## lambdastorm (Nov 24, 2020)

Bonddam said:


> The problem with the 1266 is that their isn’t a position that can be recommended, it’s different for everybody. My issue is bass I spent countless times fitting it and long time to find it. My issue is the if I use a gap I loose bass on one side. Also I have to sit straight so it’s equal on both sides. If I move my head left or right I loose bass on one side. Soundstage was easy to find. So play with it until you find your fit.


This is the exact reason why I'm using HE6 more than the 1266. The sound quality of the 1266 when adjusted right is just unparalleled, sublime, superb, any superlative I can throw at it it won't be an exaggeration. But, but, the fit is just too finicky. Most of the time when I come back from work I just want to put the headphones on and relax. With the Abyss I'm constantly playing with the fit instead of enjoying music.


----------



## paradoxper

You guys are nuts. I don't believe I've changed my fit for a few months now. TC is peasy, man.


----------



## Bonddam

It took me a year to be happy with my fit.


----------



## paradoxper

Bonddam said:


> It took me a year to be happy with my fit.


Do you think the new headband then would expedite that period?


----------



## Bonddam

It helped a lot the previous I had to put padding underneath to raise it up into position.


----------



## Sonic Guild

lambdastorm said:


> This is the exact reason why I'm using HE6 more than the 1266. The sound quality of the 1266 when adjusted right is just unparalleled, sublime, superb, any superlative I can throw at it it won't be an exaggeration. But, but, the fit is just too finicky. Most of the time when I come back from work I just want to put the headphones on and relax. With the Abyss I'm constantly playing with the fit instead of enjoying music.


You make me feel extremely nervous about my purchase!


----------



## JonathanKlein

Sonic Guild said:


> You make me feel extremely nervous about my purchase!



FWIW, I bought the 1266 TC and the Susvara at the exact same time. While the Susvara is more comfortable, I find myself reaching for the TC more now that I have the ear pad and head position dialed in.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Nov 24, 2020)

Sonic Guild said:


> You make me feel extremely nervous about my purchase!


After figuring out the best rotation of the ear pads, it’s very easy and simple to adjust the fit and therefore adjust the bass levels.

I listen to my TCs throughout the week. It literally takes me less than 30 seconds to fit. It’s not difficult at all (at least for me).

The hard part is just figuring out the initial rotation and fit of the earpads. It took me like a week of experimenting before I found the best fit for me. Yeah, that’s some effort, but it definitely pays off. After that, small adjustments per genre are quick and easy


----------



## lambdastorm (Nov 25, 2020)

Sonic Guild said:


> You make me feel extremely nervous about my purchase!


lol don't be. Mine is the OG 1266. Much has changed since then, that headband overhaul included.


----------



## JLoud

Sonic Guild said:


> You make me feel extremely nervous about my purchase!


I played with fit for a couple of days. Now I just pop them on, no adjustments needed. If I want to add or subtract bass I rotate pads one spot. Of course everyones head is different.


----------



## MatW

Same here. Under 10 seconds to adjust the fit. I do find myself adjusting/tweaking it further occasionally during the listening session though, but I don't mind doing that.

And yes, the new headband is a huge improvement, once you have found the right size O ring.


----------



## MAURO16164

This is the headband made by a leathermaker from Rome. The Abyss writing was done by laser and not pressure and I wanted only one snap button, instead of the two screw, absolutely perfect.


----------



## stemiki

Mom, how ugly she is! Ha ha ha ha ha ha!


----------



## MAURO16164

[QUOTE = "stemiki, post: 15998308, membro: 445704"]
Mamma, quanto è brutta! Ah ah ah ah ah ah!: o2smile:
[/CITAZIONE]
 Guarda che ti faccio la Macumba e ti brucio i driver ella TC!     : dt880smile:  : dt880smile:


----------



## Roasty

MAURO16164 said:


> This is the headband made by a leathermaker from Rome. The Abyss writing was done by laser and not pressure and I wanted only one snap button, instead of the two screw, absolutely perfect.



Get a few more made and send them to us! Do they have other colours available?


----------



## MAURO16164

Roasty said:


> Get a few more made and send them to us! Do they have other colours available?


I'm not the headband but a leathermaker from Rome. But I believe that any good leathermaker can do it, it is certainly not difficult. It is enough to have the measurements of the original and the craftsman will be able to replicate it faithfully. Then as regards the colors, I think there is no problem. Everyone can have it done as he wishes. They are only 2 coupled strips of leather, nothing particular that a good craftsman cannot do. This artisan from Rome made it in a few hours, all you need is the machinery to work the leather.


----------



## Delacaff (Nov 25, 2020)

Hey guys. Currently working on a prototype of comfy headband for the 1266. Super premium leathers on both sides, slick upper leather in various colors, suede leather for the lower side, totally hand-stitched. Form factor is now settled (see pic below). We - me the designer and my Leather man, are exploring different foams to place in-between the layers of leather for maximum comfort. We are also exploring on-demand vegan tanning with different manufacturers for the lower leather as vegan tan prevents from allergies but this is quite difficult to source small volume. Stay tuned


----------



## Bonddam

Delacaff said:


> Hey guys. Currently working on a prototype of comfy headband for the 1266. Super premium leathers on both sides, slick upper leather in various colors, suede leather for the lower side, totally hand-stitched. Form factor is now settled (see pic below). We - me the designer and my Leather man, are exploring different foams to place in-between the layers of leather for maximum comfort. We are also exploring on-demand vegan tanning with different manufacturers for the lower leather as vegan tan prevents from allergies but this is quite difficult to source small volume. Stay tuned


I did not know people be allergic to leather, good to know.


----------



## Delacaff (Nov 26, 2020)

Bonddam said:


> I did not know people be allergic to leather, good to know.


Some people are allergic to the dyeing of the leather when these leathers are chrome-tanned, not to the leather itself. Long story short, these allergies are due to the presence of chrome. Statistics say that around 10% of a population may declare such allergies. When a headband is placed on bold-head, risks increase. That's the reason why vegan tanned leather is a must-have but  vegan-tanned  suedes doesn't come as  standard in the market. Moreover, when suede leathers are vegan-tanned, they may leak their dyeing and leave some traces. Not good at all for the customer experience... As a result, a vegan-tanned suede with specific treatment to fix the dyeing must be manufacture on-demand. But it is worth to do since the touch of suede leather on skin is cool, and helps to prevent heavy headphone to slide.


----------



## tholt

joseph69 said:


> Yes, unfortunately I did sell my WA33 to @JLoud.
> This was THE worse decision I've ever made and very much regret doing so, but at the time I think I was using the WA33 so much that I'd just grown tired of it and needed a change. I should've just stop listening to it for a while instead of selling it, then I would've realized and appreciated it again.



I can feel you here. You get so used to what you have, you can lose an appreciation for how good it actually is. That is, until you hear something else that's a lot worse. I've definitely regretted selling a few things in my audio life!


----------



## Bonddam

I’m on the cusp of selling my WA33. The introduction of Wells Milo is pushing me. Only thing is the Woo looks beautiful. Only time I use it is with the 1266.


----------



## jlbrach

you are suggesting the milo to be superior to the wa33?


----------



## jlbrach

the wa33 is one amp I havent spent time with that interests me, I did hear it at a show but it is impossible to pass judgment at shows...I am not a tube guy and especially with the hassle of dealing with tubes over time....as far as the abyss tc goes I find it hard to believe that anything can be appreciably better than the formula s/powerman with it unless you spend ungodly sums of money


----------



## Bonddam

jlbrach said:


> you are suggesting the milo to be superior to the wa33?


No not at all. The Milo makes all my headphones sound good. WA33 does not, but when the 1266 TC and Empyrean are being listened to I enjoy the WA33 over the Milo. The VC sounded better on the Euforia AE then the WA33 and sounds really good on the Milo. I find acoustic music sounds best on WA33 but my EDM is better on Milo.


----------



## kernel8888

Anyone know the best Black Friday deals for a abyss cable?


----------



## Bonddam

Abyss doesn’t look like they are doing any discounts. Now if you want 1266 there’s 10% off at HeadAmp. He only has two in stock. Same for Diana.


----------



## InstantSilence

Where do I buy a variety of 0rings, a decent variety of various sizes of 0 rings..?


----------



## Roasty

InstantSilence said:


> Where do I buy a variety of 0rings, a decent variety of various sizes of 0 rings..?



Quite a few variety sets on Amazon.


----------



## InstantSilence

Roasty said:


> Quite a few variety sets on Amazon.


I don't know how to search for the sizes just slightly bigger than the stock rings for the TC


----------



## Bonddam

Put my silver WA33 up for sale.


----------



## Roasty

InstantSilence said:


> I don't know how to search for the sizes just slightly bigger than the stock rings for the TC



Try a search for buna-n 215 or 216 those should work.


----------



## InstantSilence

Roasty said:


> Try a search for buna-n 215 or 216 those should work.


How is it Gauged, like is the 216 larger than 215?


----------



## Roasty

InstantSilence said:


> How is it Gauged, like is the 216 larger than 215?



Yep. stock is 213.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Bonddam said:


> Put my silver WA33 up for sale.


Somebody else sold their wa33 recently too (can’t remember his name).  He mentioned that he realized it was a big mistake after he sold it.  

But, I guess we all eventually want to try something new.  I guess


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> Somebody else sold their wa33 recently too (can’t remember his name).  He mentioned that he realized it was a big mistake after he sold it.
> 
> But, I guess we all eventually want to try something new.  I guess


Haha. @joseph69, Studio or your regret.


----------



## JLoud

As the buyer for joseph69's WA33, I'm glad he had a moment of insanity. I do sympathize however as I have sold a few items I wish I hadn't.


----------



## jlbrach

in my case I have sold and rebought the same item numerous times,grass is always greener


----------



## JLoud

Same here. Tell myself I won't do that again. And I never do, until I do.


----------



## joseph69

Ciggavelli said:


> Somebody else sold their wa33 recently too (can’t remember his name).  He mentioned that he realized it was a big mistake after he sold it. But, I guess we all eventually want to try something new.  I guess


That was me.
Fortunately I just made a deal with @Bonddam and will be the owner of a WA33 once again!



paradoxper said:


> Haha. @joseph69, Studio or your regret.


After speaking with the seller of the ECST I've decided to pass after he mentioned it's on the same level as the WA33 SE.
I also prefer the aesthetics of the WA33 much more, as well as knowing what I'm going to hear again and living very close to Woo Audio incase something should go wrong. Thanks again for your input, Cory, I appreciate it.


----------



## Roasty

joseph69 said:


> That was me.
> Fortunately I just made a deal with @Bonddam and will be the owner of a WA33 once again!



Lol! Don't make the same mistake again later on!


----------



## silversurfer616

jlbrach said:


> in my case I have sold and rebought the same item numerous times,grass is always greener


Know the feeling...on my 5th pair of HD800(S).


----------



## FLTWS

silversurfer616 said:


> Know the feeling...on my 5th pair of HD800(S).



LOL, The  "S" may no longer be the darling of audiodom but it's a revised classic that I can't see myself parting with. Provides a  nice contrast to my Phi and SR1a in sound, and fit. Variety is the spice... as they say. Matching with proper amp-ing is the key to wring out the best each is capable of.


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> Lol! Don't make the same mistake again later on!


Will definitely not doing that again, for sure.


----------



## olle83

Just bit the bullet and ordered the TC from headamp with their discount, there is still one more unit left if someone else is interested.
Nice to have free shipping too.


----------



## paradoxper

olle83 said:


> Just bit the bullet and ordered the TC from headamp with their discount, there is still one more unit left if someone else is interested.
> Nice to have free shipping too.


Good man.


----------



## vonBaron

What about Cayin HA-6A for 1266?


----------



## Burakk

After numbers of different trials, I found my amp. I strongly suggest Luminare to drive these power hungry guys. Hugo TT2 is quite good match as dac. I tried RME ADI dac as well.  

Thanks to Headphone Audition Amsterdam for custom design stand for 1266.I don’t think so there is better stand on the market.


----------



## MaggotBrain (Nov 30, 2020)

olle83 said:


> Just bit the bullet and ordered the TC from headamp with their discount, there is still one more unit left if someone else is interested.
> Nice to have free shipping too.


Last I checked they were sold out at headamp BUT Woo Audio has their 10 percent off sale (with a free HP stand to boot) for a couple more hours if anybody wants one - I decided the finally upgrade from the OG because the Diana Phi spoiled me - I love the bass on the OG, the treble on the Diana Phi and thought wouldn’t it be nice if they had had one headphone that handles them both and, perusing this thread, figured the TC would fit the bill. It will be send right from Abyss in NY and three week lead time - a decent wait but crossing my fingers it’ll be here by Christmas. Can’t wait!


----------



## honeyjjack

Has anyone tried two or more of these amps with the ab1266? Im looking for comparisons between cayin ha300, woo wa33 and wells audio headtrip II


----------



## paradoxper

honeyjjack said:


> Has anyone tried two or more of these amps with the ab1266? Im looking for comparisons between cayin ha300, woo wa33 and wells audio headtrip II


Add the Trafomatic Primavera to your list.


----------



## JonathanKlein (Dec 1, 2020)

honeyjjack said:


> Has anyone tried two or more of these amps with the ab1266? Im looking for comparisons between cayin ha300, woo wa33 and wells audio headtrip II



I have the Well Headtrip II Level II.  I don't have much to compare it to other than the Bakoon AMP-13R, and honestly, I can't imagine it getting any better.  It simultaneously drives my 1266 TC and Susvara with ease.  I'm pairing these amps with a LampizatOr Golden Atlantic TRP 2 that uses tubes for the analog stage, which warms up any potential harshness from a SS amp, and really adds to the musicality.  The only other amp I'm considering adding my stable is the Primavera the @paradoxper mentioned above.


----------



## Sonic Guild (Dec 3, 2020)

I got my amp this afternoon and hocked up the 1266.... HOLY COW!!!
Is this real? Because it can’t be.
The 1266 makes every headphones on earth sounds broken!
I know what I am talking about. Let me share a little about myself, so you know where I come from. Few years ago I used to own Focal Utopia, LCD 4, HD800S, HE1000 and many other cheap/mainstream headphones HD650, AKG, B&W, Meze...etc. All powered by SimAudio 430.
One day I decided to sell all my gear and started building a 2 channel system. I am talking 100k system. Recently decided to go back to headphones and wanted to get the LCD4 again because I used to like the bass of Audeze. But after getting spoiled with my 2 channel system, the LCD4 sounded claustrophobic and shi#. Spent many hours searching for a good headphones that mimics the performance of my 2 channel system. Few friends recommend the1266.
Holy cow I am glad that I listened to them. The LCD sounds muffled compared to the 1266, the HD800 sounds broken compared to the1266, the Hifiman sounds dead and emotionless compared to the 1266. 
The best thing about the 1266 is the decay ❤❤❤❤ 
After that comes the bass oh holy moly the bass is the BEST bass ever. I like to toe the 1266 forward and keep a good space from the back, this position mimics my 2 channel system.
Not quite sure if the 1266 requires burn in, also not sure if investing in a new cable will make any difference.
My advice, to appreciate the 1266 you should listen to all top tier headphones then listen to the 1266. This is the best way to realize how all other headphones sound like garbage!!


----------



## 35FLE

Sonic Guild said:


> I got my amp this afternoon and hocked up the 1266.... HOLY COW!!!
> Is this real? Because it can’t be.
> The 1266 makes every headphones on earth sounds broken!
> I know what I am talking about. Let me share a little about myself, so you know where I come from. Few years ago I used to own Focal Utopia, LCD 4, HD800S, HE1000 and many other cheap/mainstream headphones HD650, AKG, B&W, Meze...etc. All powered by SimAudio 430.
> ...


What headphone amp


----------



## bpcans

vonBaron said:


> Well i hope my Lazuli Utra will sound similar.


vonBaron, I just purchased a Lazuli Ultra last night after initially wanting to get the Lazuli Reference hp cable for my Focal Utopia SKU’s. Vinh Vu at Gingko Audio offered me a broken-in 2m Ultra with a 4-pin Furutech connector at $500 off list price bc somebody wanted their Nirvana cable instead. My music source is a MacBook Pro > AQ Jitterbug > AQ Diamond USB > Chord Hugo TT2 DAC > AQ Earth XLR’s > Woo Audio WA22 headphone amplifier > Focal Utopia SKU’s using this new Lazuli Ultra hp cable. I use JRiver media to play my 16/44 CD files, and I stream Hi-res, FLAC and some DSD recordings thru ROON, Audirvana, and Qobuz.


----------



## stemiki

Sonic Guild said:


> I got my amp this afternoon and hocked up the 1266.... HOLY COW!!!
> Is this real? Because it can’t be.
> The 1266 makes every headphones on earth sounds broken!
> I know what I am talking about. Let me share a little about myself, so you know where I come from. Few years ago I used to own Focal Utopia, LCD 4, HD800S, HE1000 and many other cheap/mainstream headphones HD650, AKG, B&W, Meze...etc. All powered by SimAudio 430.
> ...


A great upgrade cable is the Superconductor HP.


----------



## JLoud

Just to throw it out there, those looking for an affordable(cheap)amp to get started with. One that will drive the TC, HE6, LCD-4 or the like, the Emotiva A-100 integrated amp works well. Not saying it is the end all of amps, just a nice affordable place to start while you save for a nice amp. With jumper installed(or removed I don't remember) it puts the full power to single ended headphone jack.

Power Output (headphone output; direct drive mode)
(requires internal jumper; USE WITH CAUTION):
8 Ohms: 50 watts / channel
33 Ohms: 12 watts / channel
47 Ohms: 8.5 watts / channel
150 Ohms: 2.6 watts / channel
300 Ohms: 1.3 watts / channel
600 Ohms:  0.6 watts / channel
From Emotiva site.


----------



## rayofsi

I just joined the Abyss TC club today.. I am liking what i hear. Coming from a Full Stax Setup, Susvara, and LCD4s. too many headphones now hah.


----------



## JLoud

What Stax did you or do you have? I have been curious about the 009s. I have the TC and LCD4. Just got a BHSE for my Voce and am considering a 009s to compliment my other headphones. 
And there is no such thing as too many headphones.   I have sold off several myself however lately. Of course now I'm thinking of buying new ones. Oh the fun of being an audiophile.


----------



## rayofsi

JLoud said:


> What Stax did you or do you have? I have been curious about the 009s. I have the TC and LCD4. Just got a BHSE for my Voce and am considering a 009s to compliment my other headphones.
> And there is no such thing as too many headphones.   I have sold off several myself however lately. Of course now I'm thinking of buying new ones. Oh the fun of being an audiophile.


009 , 007mk1, phenomenon libratum and canorum, eslabs es1a, voce. Running a t2, a pair of carbons and have a regular kgsshv. I think the abyss sounds better.. lol


----------



## joseph69

Sonic Guild said:


> This is the best way to realize how all other headphones sound like garbage!!


I'm really glad you're enjoying your TC so much, but to say "all other headphones sound like garbage" is extreme and uncalled for. 
I also don't understand what "you know what you're talking about" means? You may believe this, which is fine for you, but may not be for everyone else. It all comes down to ones personal enjoyment and sound preference. And yes, I've heard all versions of the 1266 (in home on my own gear) and did enjoy their presentation, but chose to not buy them due to my personal preferences.


----------



## qboogie

Let him be excited about his new purchase


----------



## ken6217

qboogie said:


> Let him be excited about his new purchase



There is excited, and then there’s obnoxious.


----------



## JLoud

Most of us are probably a little obnoxious about our favorite(new) purchase. At least that's what my wife says whenever I get a new amp or headphone.


----------



## joseph69

qboogie said:


> Let him be excited about his new purchase





JLoud said:


> Most of us are probably a little obnoxious about our favorite(new) purchase. At least that's what my wife says whenever I get a new amp or headphone.


My intention weren't to attack, and I did say that I was glad and I sincerely meant it. 
I also understand the excitement of new headphone & gear, but to say all other headphones are "garbage" is again, uncalled for.


----------



## Bonddam (Dec 4, 2020)

This is the US OF A so freedom to speak your mind. I don't mind that he has an opinion to other headphones that are negative to him. But for the other countries this could be a sad day.


----------



## joseph69

Bonddam said:


> This is the US OF A so freedom to speak your mind. I don't mind that he has an opinion to other headphones that are negative to him. But for the other countries this could be a sad day.


I don't mind that anyone has their own opinions / preferences which we're all certainly entitled too, but again, "garbage"?
If this is the case then @Sonic Guild should throw away the other 11 headphones that are listed. I didn't post to cause a debate. I posted because "garbage" was definitely extreme and uncalled for, and certainly far from the truth. I'm done..


----------



## paradoxper

joseph69 said:


> I don't mind that anyone has their own opinions / preferences which we're all certainly entitled too, but again, "garbage"?
> If this is the case then @Sonic Guild should throw away the other 11 headphones that are listed. I didn't post to cause a debate. I posted because "garbage" was definitely extreme and uncalled for, and certainly far from the truth. I'm done..


Why does it matter. He has limited posts, feedback, and overall interaction and established points of reference within the community.

This is Head-Fi.
Let him play with all the hyperbole he wants.

One man's trash is another man's treasure.


----------



## Bonddam

joseph69 said:


> I don't mind that anyone has their own opinions / preferences which we're all certainly entitled too, but again, "garbage"?
> If this is the case then @Sonic Guild should throw away the other 11 headphones that are listed. I didn't post to cause a debate. I posted because "garbage" was definitely extreme and uncalled for, and certainly far from the truth. I'm done..


Yes he could have said he doesn’t like all other headphones. When emotions get involved things get messy.


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> Why does it matter. He has limited posts, feedback, and overall interaction and established points of reference within the community.


I'm not done.
To be quite honest, you're !00% right. 
I didn't bother to look at the source which was my mistake.


----------



## ken6217 (Dec 4, 2020)

Bonddam said:


> This is the US OF A so freedom to speak your mind. I don't mind that he has an opinion to other headphones that are negative to him. But for the other countries this could be a sad day.



No one said he’s not free to speak his mind. However just because one speaks ones mind has nothing to do with the content being obnoxious or not. He’s free to be obnoxious, and anyone is free to point it out.


----------



## Bonddam

ken6217 said:


> No one said he’s not free to speak his mind. However just because one speaks ones mind has nothing to do with the content being obnoxious or not. He’s feee to be obnoxious and anyone is free to point it out.


I would have responded by telling him he has bleach on the brains if he thinks LCD 4 is garbage, if I was not so desensitized.


----------



## paradoxper

joseph69 said:


> I'm not done.
> To be quite honest, you're !00% right.
> I didn't bother to look at the source which was my mistake.


I forgive you.


----------



## JLoud

I will say his over the top descriptions kind of discounted his conclusions. Didn’t mean to poke a bear. It’s all just for fun here anyway.


----------



## Sonic Guild

35FLE said:


> What headphone amp


RME ADI-2 Pro 
The Pro has balanced output


----------



## Sonic Guild

stemiki said:


> A great upgrade cable is the Superconductor HP.


The stock cable and the superconductor are made of what? copper? silver? 
The website has nothing to say about the cables construction at all. 

Did you find the SC a significantly better cable with auditable difference? 
May reviews claim that the stick has better clarity compared to the SC. 
I don't understand the price of the SC, 2000 dollars!! Why? this is 40% of the actual headphones price.


----------



## Sonic Guild

joseph69 said:


> I don't mind that anyone has their own opinions / preferences which we're all certainly entitled too, but again, "garbage"?
> If this is the case then @Sonic Guild should throw away the other 11 headphones that are listed. I didn't post to cause a debate. I posted because "garbage" was definitely extreme and uncalled for, and certainly far from the truth. I'm done..


Do not be too picky about the terms, come on dude.
This is not a peer reviewed academic journal. We are here to chill and chit-chat with each other like buddies.


----------



## ken6217

Just to add one more thing. I'm sure there are quite a few people that read this forum as they have interest in these headphones. Maybe they can afford them now, maybe in the future, or maybe never. It is disrespectful to say that all other headphones are crap, which would include what these other hobbyists have. 

To say that the 1266TC is the best I have ever heard is much different than saying all other headphones are garbage.


----------



## Marco_tam

So..changing the topic...I have always wondered how you guys get rid of the dust on the mesh between the grill? It's killing me as it's hard to do so without leaving a dent/messing up the mesh pattern...


----------



## Sonic Guild (Dec 5, 2020)

Marco_tam said:


> So..changing the topic...I have always wondered how you guys get rid of the dust on the mesh between the grill? It's killing me as it's hard to do so without leaving a dent/messing up the mesh pattern...



Are you referring to the aluminum foam?
I was thinking of microfibre cloth but no, it will leave fibres behind in between the aluminum foam. So I suggest the cloth that comes with eye glasses! It is soft and extremely dense at the same time, so no fibres to escape in between aluminum foam.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

If you touch that very fine mesh inside the slots with anything, there is no way to fix the damage it will cause. Each strand is about a thousandth of an inch. Best you can do is gently blow on it with your mouth, this or play some heavy bass.


----------



## Marco_tam (Dec 5, 2020)

Abyss Headphones said:


> If you touch that very fine mesh inside the slots with anything, there is no way to fix the damage it will cause. Each strand is about a thousandth of an inch. Best you can do is gently blow on it with your mouth, this or play some heavy bass.



The strand sort of traps the dust in it so I guess that leaves playing some heavy bass


----------



## Marco_tam (Dec 5, 2020)

Sonic Guild said:


> Are you referring to the aluminum foam?
> I was thinking of microfibre cloth but no, it will leave fibres behind in between the aluminum foam. So I suggest the cloth that comes with eye glasses! It is soft and extremely dense at the same time, so no fibres to escape in between aluminum foam.



I mean the mesh on the inside. The aluminum foam is rather easy to clean but the mesh is too fragile to be touched..


----------



## weasel1979

Relax. We are talking about headphones! You really wanna call people out who use the word garbage to express themselves? Who are you?


----------



## smodtactical

Sonic Guild said:


> I got my amp this afternoon and hocked up the 1266.... HOLY COW!!!
> Is this real? Because it can’t be.
> The 1266 makes every headphones on earth sounds broken!
> I know what I am talking about. Let me share a little about myself, so you know where I come from. Few years ago I used to own Focal Utopia, LCD 4, HD800S, HE1000 and many other cheap/mainstream headphones HD650, AKG, B&W, Meze...etc. All powered by SimAudio 430.
> ...



Chill boy. good 2 channel (esp with subs) still DESTROYS Abyss. 

(Trying to be dramatic like him... hehe)


----------



## simorag

Sonic Guild said:


> Did you find the SC a significantly better cable with auditable difference?
> May reviews claim that the stick has better clarity compared to the SC.
> I don't understand the price of the SC, 2000 dollars!! Why? this is 40% of the actual headphones price.



Getting the SC cable, for me, was that kind of upgrade you do for finishing off a set-up that you feel is hard to improve on elseways.

The AB-1266 (especially the TC) scales nicely as long as you improve upstream gear, so after getting the best source and amp I could afford, there was nothing much I could try unless moving to another headphone or complementing the 1266.

The thing is that the combination of audiophile technicalities and big, bold/fun-like sound the TC delivers (I call it a '_hip-harp_' headphone  , as you can greatly enjoy everything from rap to ethereal classical pieces with it) is simply the best my ears have tried so far, especially as a daily-driver package.

So, that for me was the justification on spending big on cable upgrade, although the stock is a very good option (possibly the best for punch/slam and articulation).

As usual in high-end audio, the last bits of performance increase are the most expensive, hence the hardest to justify in terms of price vs. gain ratio. The SC does not escape the diminishing returns cliché I am afraid.


----------



## stemiki

Sonic Guild said:


> The stock cable and the superconductor are made of what? copper? silver?
> The website has nothing to say about the cables construction at all.
> 
> Did you find the SC a significantly better cable with auditable difference?
> ...


The materials with which these cables are made are not known. Compared to the stock there is an increase in micro detail and medium-low more in evidence. More full-bodied but always precise bass. You really realize how much better it is with SP the moment you put the stock cable back in after a month or so.


----------



## Sonic Guild

smodtactical said:


> Chill boy. good 2 channel (esp with subs) still DESTROYS Abyss.
> 
> (Trying to be dramatic like him... hehe)


I agree nothing beats 2 channel with subs 

My next experiment will be using the 1266 with my 2 "sealed" subs.


----------



## Sonic Guild

stemiki said:


> The materials with which these cables are made are not known. Compared to the stock there is an increase in micro detail and medium-low more in evidence. More full-bodied but always precise bass. You really realize how much better it is with SP the moment you put the stock cable back in after a month or so.


I think the SC is made of *Alumiloy® Proprietary Conductor*.
It is a combination of different metals and only used by ABYSS, correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## jlbrach

the SC is a hell of a combo with the TC, that is for sure


----------



## stemiki

Sonic Guild said:


> I think the SC is made of *Alumiloy® Proprietary Conductor*.
> It is a combination of different metals and only used by ABYSS, correct me if I am wrong.


Yes, but the materials used are not known. I tried various cables before buying it, but sadly they didn't pair well with the headphones.
The best after the SC in my setup was the stock. 
However, I didn't try other expensive cables, I used UP OCC copper cables, one in Aluminum and Silver and one in Silver 8 core.


----------



## Sage Encore

Hi people,
How is the Prion 4 or Toxic Cable's Medusa compared to the SC? Any one has heard them on a TC? Thank you guys.


----------



## simorag

Sage Encore said:


> Hi people,
> How is the Prion 4 or Toxic Cable's Medusa compared to the SC? Any one has heard them on a TC? Thank you guys.



I had the Prion4, which I liked very much with the AB-1266 (full story here). In the end I sold it and kept the Superconductor due to my personal preferences over a slightly heftier and fuller sound, and what I thought it was a better synergy with the rest of my system.

The Prion4 is a fantastic cable anyway, sometimes I still miss its liquidity on the top end, immaculate transparency and detail retrieval.


----------



## MatW

MatW said:


> Update: I am currently using the 30 mm version, which is ~6 mm wider than the stock version that comes with the new headband. Mind you, with my ears/head, I need the cups to be pretty low. With the 30 mm rings, I have about half a centimeter space left between the top of the headband and the frame. You can't go much beyond 30 mm, I think, and most of you will probably want to use smaller rings. In terms of thickness, in retrospect I think a 4 mm ring may fit as well, with added strength as a benefit. Let's see how long the 3 mm version lasts. (Update within the update: 4 mm is too thick and won't fit).
> 
> With the new headband and the larger o-ring, the comfort has dramatically improved compared to the old headband.  I also do not (yet) experience this 'bunching up' effect that others have mentioned.



Second update: 3 attempts and 60 euros later, I have found the perfect size for me: 33 mm diameter. I need the drivers to hang very low, with the headband almost touching the frame.

Key learnings, if the stock rings are too tight for you (for those in Europe): 
- Search online for "O-ring NBR70 shore A", and find a webshop that will supply these in low quantities (I found one that supplies 10 pieces per size)
- Choose 3 mm thickness. 4 mm is too thick, it won't fit.
- The diameter of the stock ring is ~24 mm. If you order 27, 30 and 33 mm, you pretty much have all bases covered.

If you are in Europe and need a set of larger O rings, PM me with your address and I will send you a set consisting of 25, 27, 28, 30, 32, 33 and 35 mm rings. I have ten sets available (but the last few sets will be short on 30-33 mm rings because I am keeping a few as spares). I will be sending these through regular mail (no tracking) to keep the cost down.


----------



## Sage Encore

simorag said:


> I had the Prion4, which I liked very much with the AB-1266 (full story here). In the end I sold it and kept the Superconductor due to my personal preferences over a slightly heftier and fuller sound, and what I thought it was a better synergy with the rest of my system.
> 
> The Prion4 is a fantastic cable anyway, sometimes I still miss its liquidity on the top end, immaculate transparency and detail retrieval.


Thank you so much for the excellent write up. It was very informative. I should be getting one in from @Roasty soon for a listen, (Thank you so much) and also looking forward to the arrival of my TC which I’m upgrading from a CC. Exciting days ahead.


----------



## GU1DO

They increased the headband price from 140$ to 250$ ???


----------



## MatW

GU1DO said:


> They increased the headband price from 140$ to 250$ ???


I paid $199 in early September, excluding shipping and taxes. The total amounted to $ 273.80.


----------



## rayofsi

had a few days with the Abyss TC now. My goto headphones. haven't touched my Susvara since. And haven't fired up my stax setup.
Running very nicely with a CFA3 amplifier


----------



## paradoxper

rayofsi said:


> had a few days with the Abyss TC now. My goto headphones. haven't touched my Susvara since. And haven't fired up my stax setup.
> Running very nicely with a CFA3 amplifier


The times have changed.


----------



## rayofsi

paradoxper said:


> The times have changed.


don't get me wrong. i'm keeping my T2 for now hah. the Abyss is great, there are probably a few things the Stax still does better for me, but the Abyss just sounds the best overall, probably all that Kevin Gilmore Power!, all my higher end amps i have are his designs.


----------



## paradoxper

rayofsi said:


> don't get me wrong. i'm keeping my T2 for now hah. the Abyss is great, there are probably a few things the Stax still does better for me, but the Abyss just sounds the best overall, probably all that Kevin Gilmore Power!, all my higher end amps i have are his designs.


Ha. Keep the T2 for a time. Then switch over to Martin Logans. Then ask Kerry to build you an Uberamp. Stats will live on.


----------



## rayofsi

paradoxper said:


> Ha. Keep the T2 for a time. Then switch over to Martin Logans. Then ask Kerry to build you an Uberamp. Stats will live on.


its good to be less then 30 minutes away from Kerry. If not for this pandemic..


----------



## paradoxper

rayofsi said:


> its good to be less then 30 minutes away from Kerry. If not for this pandemic..


Grovels. You lucky son of a bitch.


----------



## bpcans

paradoxper said:


> Ha. Keep the T2 for a time. Then switch over to Martin Logans. Then ask Kerry to build you an Uberamp. Stats will live on.


Martin-Logan’s are the business.


----------



## smodtactical

rayofsi said:


> had a few days with the Abyss TC now. My goto headphones. haven't touched my Susvara since. And haven't fired up my stax setup.
> Running very nicely with a CFA3 amplifier



Have you run susvara off a speaker amp ?


----------



## typalder

smodtactical said:


> Have you run susvara off a speaker amp ?


tested sooooo many headphone amps. but a high quality (not more expensive!) speaker amp was ALWAYS better. 🤷‍♂️

ps: talkin about the 1266, not the susvara


----------



## smodtactical

typalder said:


> tested sooooo many headphone amps. but a high quality (not more expensive!) speaker amp was ALWAYS better. 🤷‍♂️
> 
> ps: talkin about the 1266, not the susvara



Yup seems they both scale with speaker amps but lots of owners don't run them. I wonder if susvara scales even more due to its insanely low sensitivity.


----------



## rayofsi

smodtactical said:


> Have you run susvara off a speaker amp ?


i have not. i have a cfa3 that does 16w into 50ohms and a susy dynahi that probably does the same or more. have you heard any of kevin gilmore based amps?


----------



## jlbrach

as I have introduced on the susvara area the ragnarok 2 has tons of power and is a speaker amp


----------



## qboogie

Can anyone point me in the direction of a well-made short adapter to allow me to use my existing cables (mini-XLR) with the 1266 TC's 3 pin config? I use Norne Silvergarde S3-C cables


----------



## JLoud

I bought adapters from Trevor and Norne. He will mach them to your existing cables, or make them out of silver as the most transparent.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

qboogie said:


> Can anyone point me in the direction of a well-made short adapter to allow me to use my existing cables (mini-XLR) with the 1266 TC's 3 pin config? I use Norne Silvergarde S3-C cables



AffinityCable (Sean) from Singapore. Check out the store on Ebay. Sean is one of the few measuring impedance and other parameters, his products are great.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Hoegaardener70 said:


> AffinityCable (Sean) from Singapore. Check out the store on Ebay. Sean is one of the few measuring impedance and other parameters, his products are great.


I’ve bought several adapters from him. Great quality. I definitely recommend his products too


----------



## joseph69

Ciggavelli said:


> I’ve bought several adapters from him. Great quality. I definitely recommend his products too


+1


----------



## qboogie

Thanks guys


----------



## F208Frank

Mint Condition SC Cable for Sale in FS section, selling only to get a longer one. I cover shipping/paypal fees.

4 Pin XLR 6 Ft.

Awaiting new headband from Abyss, quite excited.

Peace.


----------



## zenlisten (Dec 9, 2020)

Is the wiring right if I put XLR female-to-female joiners in the back of this DAC/amp and connect the Superconductor HP cables to these? The joiners are a pair of NEUTRIK NA3FF-B with the standard layout on all ends: ²₃¹. The balanced XLR outputs of Chord Hugo TT2 have also standard wiring as far as I know.

The question is just whether the wiring will be alright. It would be a shame to hurt them Abysses.




Whether a proper amp is needed is a different question which I will find out later. The TT2 may have enough power according to its manual:


> …once the Hugo TT 2 enters Amplification Mode, 8W on RCA and 20W on XLR, the rated spec is 7W/8 RCA and 18/8 (XLR balanced)


----------



## ra990

zenlisten said:


> Is the wiring right if I put XLR female-to-female joiners in the back of this DAC/amp and connect the Superconductor HP cables to these? The joiners are a pair of NEUTRIK NA3FF-B with the standard layout on all ends: ²₃¹. The balanced XLR outputs of Chord Hugo TT2 have also standard wiring as far as I know.
> 
> The question is just whether the wiring will be alright. It would be a shame to hurt them Abysses.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't do this. You don't ever want to chance the earth and negative shorting. Build an adapter or get one built that will only use pins 2 and 3 for the balanced connections to your headphones.


----------



## ufospls2

zenlisten said:


> Is the wiring right if I put XLR female-to-female joiners in the back of this DAC/amp and connect the Superconductor HP cables to these? The joiners are a pair of NEUTRIK NA3FF-B with the standard layout on all ends: ²₃¹. The balanced XLR outputs of Chord Hugo TT2 have also standard wiring as far as I know.
> 
> The question is just whether the wiring will be alright. It would be a shame to hurt them Abysses.
> 
> ...



I'd double check with Chord before use. I did use the XLR outputs from the HTT2 to drive the Diana Phi and it worked wonderfully, but I used a dual 3pin XLR to 4pin XLR all female adapter.


----------



## F208Frank

The newer headband came in today, extremely satisfied with it. For me it gave a better overall fit, and comfort levels were up quite a bit as well.


----------



## NZtechfreak

F208Frank said:


> The newer headband came in today, extremely satisfied with it. For me it gave a better overall fit, and comfort levels were up quite a bit as well.



Pictures or it didn't happen.


----------



## F208Frank

NZtechfreak said:


> Pictures or it didn't happen.


Haha, it definitely did happen. I'm enjoying the music too much to want to take off the headphones for now though.


----------



## Roasty

I changed the 213 rubber rings for size 215 and I like it a lot. Less tension less clamp and more comfort for me. Feels a lot like my old headband now.


----------



## makan (Dec 10, 2020)

Have a question for you folks.  I have a Diana Phi and 1266 TC....may keep both.  I have the superconductor cable for the Diana.  For the TC, I have the stock and the Moon Audio Silver Dragon.  I am wondering if any of you have bought an adapter and used the Diana superconductor cable on the 1266, and if so, is it relatively equivalent in terms of sound to a superconductor cable specifically for the 1266.  An adapter would be cheaper, but I also noticed that the Diana superconductor cable is thinner than the one for the 1266.  I know of affinity cables who will make the adapter....anyone else know of other adapter makers?  Also, wonder if the Diana cable with the adapter will be just as good sound wise as the 1266 specific cable.


----------



## JLoud

Norne Audio makes adapters. I bought several to use on my cables. Abyss to Audeze and Focal.


----------



## Ayodej

Hi guys, what other headphones would work with the Abyss 3-pin mini xlr cables ?


----------



## olle83 (Dec 12, 2020)

Received my 1266 TC's couple of days ago and tried them with my TT2 by using the supplied 1/4" jack adapter cable.
Sound was nicely detailed, but lacked all the dynamics and impact. Clearly no where near enough juice to power these monsters.
So I ordered couple of Neutrik 3-pin female XLR connectors and my plan is to just re-terminate the stock cable to use TT2's rear connectors. I think any adapter cable would just degrade/alter the sound quality.
Hopefully this will improve my listening experience. I'll report back what I find out.


----------



## zenlisten

olle83 said:


> Received my 1266 TC's couple of days ago and tried them with my TT2 by using the supplied 1/4" jack adapter cable.
> Sound was nicely detailed, but lacked all the dynamics and impact. Clearly no where near enough juice to power these monsters.
> So I ordered couple of Neutrik 3-pin female XLR connectors and my plan is to just re-terminate the stock cable to use TT2's rear connectors. I think any adapter cable would just degrade/alter the sound quality.
> Hopefully this will improve my listening experience. I'll report back what I find out.



Good for you. I've ordered a pair almost a month ago but still waiting. Maybe will get it around Christmas.

I plan to do same as you: The JPS Labs: Abyss AB-1266 Impressions Thread


----------



## qboogie

olle83 said:


> Received my 1266 TC's couple of days ago and tried them with my TT2 by using the supplied 1/4" jack adapter cable.
> Sound was nicely detailed, but lacked all the dynamics and impact. Clearly no where near enough juice to power these monsters.
> So I ordered couple of Neutrik 3-pin female XLR connectors and my plan is to just re-terminate the stock cable to use TT2's rear connectors. I think any adapter cable would just degrade/alter the sound quality.
> Hopefully this will improve my listening experience. I'll report back what I find out.


I'm interested to see what your experience is. I spoke to 3 other users who love the TT2+1266 TC combo via the balanced rear output. I have the TT2 as well and had been on the fence about picking up the TCs until they reassured me that the TT2 balanced was completely up to the task.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

qboogie said:


> I'm interested to see what your experience is. I spoke to 3 other users who love the TT2+1266 TC combo via the balanced rear output. I have the TT2 as well and had been on the fence about picking up the TCs until they reassured me that the TT2 balanced was completely up to the task.


Just get the TToby Power Amp to go with your TT2 and be done with it (along with the M Scaler) !


----------



## olle83

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Just get the TToby Power Amp to go with your TT2 and be done with it (along with the M Scaler) !


Great idea, just send me the money and I'll do it.


----------



## Ciggavelli

My "aftermarket" o-ring just snapped.   

That never happened once with the old headband.  Luckily, I have many spare o-rings to replace it with.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> My "aftermarket" o-ring just snapped.
> 
> That never happened once with the old headband.  Luckily, I have many spare o-rings to replace it with.


Haha. After how long! Was that 16 days?


----------



## rayofsi

Abyss did say their o rings were polyurethane? While 215 is buna nitrile?


----------



## Ciggavelli

paradoxper said:


> Haha. After how long! Was that 16 days?


Hahaha...basically.  At least it can be replaced easily though.  Somebody needs to make some "audiophile" O-rings


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> Hahaha...basically.  At least it can be replaced easily though.  Somebody needs to make some "audiophile" O-rings


Boys need to lube up before going in!
Ethylene propylene is purported to be good for compression use. That is still a rather quick failure.


----------



## cjarrett (Dec 13, 2020)

I did the dumb thing and ordered this recently (thank you Tesla's stock gains) instead of keeping those gains in the market.  Hopefully the pair will arrive before christmas,. and hopefully the Yggdrasil / Ragnarok are good pairings with this.  I have a Verite Closed that was supposed to be the end-game, but alas the open TOTL started to claw at me.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

cjarrett said:


> I did the dumb thing and ordered this recently (thank you Tesla's stock gains) instead of keeping those gains in the market.  Hopefully the pair will arrive before christmas,. and hopefully the Yggdrasil / Ragnarok are good pairings with this.  I have a Verite Closed that was supposed to be the end-game, but alas the open TOTL started to claw at me.


Closed headphones can never be end-game in the complete headphone world.   Only in the "closed" headphone world !     Open headphones will always be superior in the audiophile world to closed headphones where we are trying to reach reality real world music sound nirvana !


----------



## cjarrett (Dec 13, 2020)

Exactly as you say--that itch was crawling up my spine.  Happy Christmas/holidays ya'll.   Now that I think on it, I imagine I won't get them until the new year, but will post my impressions once I get them.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

cjarrett said:


> Exactly as you say--that itch was crawling up my spine.  Happy Christmas/holidays ya'll.   Now that I think on it, I imagine I won't get them until the new year, but will post my impressions once I get them.


ZMF Verite Open if you like the sound signature of the closed.   

Or just go the whole hog in the headphone world and buy the HiFiMan Susvara or Abyss 1266 especially of you have a good speaker amp to connect them too that is connected to a good DAC !


----------



## FLTWS

Ciggavelli said:


> My "aftermarket" o-ring just snapped.
> 
> That never happened once with the old headband.  Luckily, I have many spare o-rings to replace it with.



LOL, I'm not an engineer or a physicist nor do I play one on TV,  but I believe "O" rings were not invented to act as rubber bands being stretched in the horizontal but more like gaskets used to compress in the vertical creating a seal. So...extra "O" rings for the Abyss should be S.O.P. That's the genius part about the new headband design.


----------



## Mh996

qboogie said:


> I'm interested to see what your experience is. I spoke to 3 other users who love the TT2+1266 TC combo via the balanced rear output. I have the TT2 as well and had been on the fence about picking up the TCs until they reassured me that the TT2 balanced was completely up to the task.


Hi, I also received my TC a couple days ago and am using mine with a TT2 via the rear XLRs. Almost night and day difference w/r/t dynamics and bass impact w/ good cohesion across the rest of the spectrum compared to the 1/4” on the front. Still getting the fit down, but trust me the back XLRs offer a substantial improvement. I got my adapter from Moon Audio


----------



## Burakk

Mh996 said:


> Hi, I also received my TC a couple days ago and am using mine with a TT2 via the rear XLRs. Almost night and day difference w/r/t dynamics and bass impact w/ good cohesion across the rest of the spectrum compared to the 1/4” on the front. Still getting the fit down, but trust me the back XLRs offer a substantial improvement. I got my adapter from Moon Audio


Could you please share which adapter do you use exactly from Moon Audio?


----------



## Mh996

https://www.moon-audio.com/moon-audio-silver-dragon-v3-extension-adapter-cable.html
This, with female 3-pin on the amp side and female 4-pin XLR on headphone side. Leave a comment in the order that it’s for a TT2 and they’ll organize the pins for balanced use.


----------



## Abyss Headphones (Dec 15, 2020)

See how your headphones perform with our Ultimate Headphone Test...


----------



## qboogie

Mh996 said:


> https://www.moon-audio.com/moon-audio-silver-dragon-v3-extension-adapter-cable.html
> This, with female 3-pin on the amp side and female 4-pin XLR on headphone side. Leave a comment in the order that it’s for a TT2 and they’ll organize the pins for balanced use.



Forza audioworks also makes a similar pigtail extender. But the shipping is 42 bucks


----------



## koven

Abyss Headphones said:


> See how your headphones perform with our Ultimate Headphone Test...



This is great.  Thanks for providing a lossless download link as well!


----------



## cjarrett

Got the upgrade cables in the mail.  Headphone tomorrow.  And look at that, prime material to test the new phones to...


----------



## cjarrett (Dec 17, 2020)

Haven't done any A/B Tests with any of the gear I've got, but will give some impressions based on some of my most-listened to albums.   Gear setup: Computer/Tidal/Flac recordings->Yggdrasil A2->Ragnarok->'phones.  Previous/Every-Day cans are Verite Closed Monkey-Wood. Last open cans besides ZMF (Aeolus?) I used (years ago) were the HE-1000 V2, and I hated them.

Keep in mind I'm no reviewer, just a duder who loves music and played in youth jazz groups as a trumpeter before I abandoned a music career for computer science and have more money to spend than I deserve. My commentary is on the first two-three hours of ownership and is likely biased due to that purchase effect, despite attempts to use my most listened albums/tracks.

Highlights I've notice thus far (albums used: Daft Punk 'Discovery', Art Blakey 'A Night in Tunisia', and Van Morrison 'Astral Weeks'):
*Percussion instrument decay is king. Bass Brass instruments (Baritone/Tuba) as well.  The run-off on each note is impeccable to me.
*String Instrument Soundstage/Separation. When I mention soundstage and separation, I mean the ability to pick out instrument attack/decay at large ranges of volume. Soft or loud I'm hearing excellent ability to pick out certain note strikes at various points between each ear (https://tidal.com/browse/track/83570129).
*Haven't noticed anything in superb yet in vocals

These cans are definitely going to be my standard for all jazz listening. Duke Ellington's "St Louis Blues" (https://tidal.com/browse/track/77698646), I don't think I've heard better.

I'm really blown away by the headphone soundtest in FLAC--but didn't listen to it with the previous set of cans so I can't really comment on any differences.


----------



## iamnotpretending (Dec 18, 2020)

This one is going to be a _bit_ of a rant.

First off, recently picked up a pair of Abyss AB-1266 Phi CC used on US Audio Mart and I like them a lot. My frustration is probably more with the industry at large so, back to the beginning of my story.

I purchased a Woo Audio WA6-SE with Sophia rectifier early this year to use with a pair of Focal Clears. Great amp, pretty much my dream setup overall. Super powerful amp and I barely get a quarter turn of the volume with any of my headphones without fear of destroying the drivers.  As the year dragged on, I started getting upgrade-itis, probably driven by boredom of being stuck in my house during COVID so I began looking at headphone comparisons, which took me to the Abyss. I was about to put some of them on order and thought I should email support first to see if my amps would drive them. I mean, I have other headphones that are on the harder to drive side and other planars and they are driven with ease by the WA6-SE, so figured it would be no problem. I was informed by the Abyss support that the lowest in the Woo line was the WA-2 so I backed off on my order and started comparing specs on amps to see what that amp had that mine didn't, or alternatively what other amps might drive these hungry headphones.

To my surprise, it looked like the WA22 actually has slightly less output than the WA6-SE, so I emailed Woo for clarification. I explained my story to them and was told that "sure, they would make a sound through the WA6SE but wouldn't be driven to satisfaction" and also that  "specs aren't everything," which I had a super hard time understanding. You're telling me these headphones have a certain power requirement, but there are no specs that I can look to with which to make a purchase decision? The scientist in me doesn't accept that. Further, Woo forwarded me to a video from Abyss which was supposed to clarify "what specs matter." Video here:   TLDR: this is a 22 minute video where someone from Abyss and a bunch of fans pontificate about the industry at large and there is nearly nothing to do with specs in the video, certainly nothing which explains the issue at hand.

Looking at the Abyss site, they sell Benchmark HPA4s as an option to drive their headphones and there is a 30 day in home trial if you buy directly from Benchmark. As an experiment, I purchased a set of used Abyss AB1266 from US Audio Mart and a Benchmark HPA4 from the manufacturer. Having seen plenty of reviews using this combination, I figured this would be a good control.

Obviously, the headphones sound amazing through the Benchmark so I tried them through my WA6-SE since I have it and it's hooked up as a daily driver at my office. Turns out this amp drives the headphones with ease and anything over half volume is practically ear splitting, there are no details missing, no flubby bass, etc., Sounds amazing too. Does it sound different than the Benchmark? Sure. It's a tube amp vs a solid state so I expect that difference. Do I think anything is lacking or that the WA6-SE is incapable of driving these? Absolutely no chance whatsoever.

In summary, the audiophile industry has massive flaws and things like this make me think it's basically broken overall.


----------



## jlbrach (Dec 18, 2020)

you are correct in everything you say....lots of the discussions about amps and power requirements are purely subjective thus making the whole discussion frustrating...personally I have heard my susvara and abyss TC sound better through amps rated as less powerful than amps more powerful...for instance my formula s/powerman combo outputs 6 watts /16ohms and to my ears sounds better than numerous other amps I have listened to that have specs telling me they should be more powerful and better for these inefficient HP's...I too find it all very confusing and have come to the conclusion that there is a minimum amount of power needed for these HP's and after that it all becomes subjective...if you meet the minimum then it is a matter of what you like or dont like


----------



## paradoxper

It's all subjective convolute. However, yes, you can do some basic calculation 42Ω 88dB - 115-120 dB equates 500mW - 1.5W.
So you go listen to a 1w nominal amplifier and tell me you aren't disappointed.


----------



## iamnotpretending

Thanks Jibrach for the validation on that. I hate to go online and rant about stuff but during my research, I found so little data or customer education on the issue that I had to share my experience.


----------



## iamnotpretending

@paradoxper Sure, I'll bite. So to set this up - the WA6SE 2nd gen has an output rating of roughly 1900mW for headphones like the Abyss (going off ohmage, correct me if I'm making some error in calcuation due to some other requirement of the Abyss. Upstairs, I also have an original 1st Gen WA6 (no SE, stock tubes). This amp by comparison rates at 550mw at the comparable rating of 60 ohm. Just over half way up, the amp is still ear loud enough with a jazz LP, which would be quieter from a format and a musical genre perspective. This amp has more than enough power and detail STILL at 550mW to drive these headphones.


----------



## paradoxper

iamnotpretending said:


> @paradoxper Sure, I'll bite. So to set this up - the WA6SE 2nd gen has an output rating of roughly 1900mW for headphones like the Abyss (going off ohmage, correct me if I'm making some error in calcuation due to some other requirement of the Abyss. Upstairs, I also have an original 1st Gen WA6 (no SE, stock tubes). This amp by comparison rates at 550mw at the comparable rating of 60 ohm. Just over half way up, the amp is still ear loud enough with a jazz LP, which would be quieter from a format and a musical genre perspective. This amp has more than enough power and detail STILL at 550mW to drive these headphones.


Whatever, however you enjoy it, so much the better.

You can't really complain about the industry being broken because they gave you advice you didn't like.

You can do the math and see the pushback on what they'd recommend to you.


----------



## iamnotpretending (Dec 18, 2020)

@paradoxper Wanted to take this a step further so I put on a metal album through the WA6 Gen 1 - headphones more than loud enough, no detail lost.
After that I plugged them in to an AudioQuest Cobalt into my iPhone - again enough power to drive them and sounds great. The volume is almost all the way up, which is JUST about too loud for me.

At this point, I'm starting to think these headphones are pretty damned easy to drive so I plug them directly into the headphone to lightning adapter with no additional amplification and AGAIN - I'm still getting great sounding output with these headphones. The volume is all the way maxed out so in this configuration, I could be maybe missing something but honestly it sounds pretty damned good to me still.

I'm not complaining about the industry because they gave me advice I didn't like - the industry gave me a non-answer based on marketing fluff, period.

Are these headphones harder to drive than Airpods? Sure. Do they require a nuclear reactor to drive them? Think again.


----------



## paradoxper

iamnotpretending said:


> @paradoxper Wanted to take this a step further so I put on a metal album through the WA6 Gen 1 - headphones more than loud enough, no detail lost.
> After that I plugged them in to an AudioQuest Cobalt into my iPhone - again enough power to drive them and sounds great. The volume is almost all the way up, which is JUST about too loud for me.
> 
> At this point, I'm starting to think these headphones are pretty damned easy to drive so I plug them directly into the headphone to lightning adapter with no additional amplification and AGAIN - I'm still getting great sounding output with these headphones. The volume is all the way maxed out so in this configuration, I could be maybe missing something but honestly it sounds pretty damned good to me still.
> ...


As you are new, and this argument is old, I get it. Enjoy what you like. You just can't complain within proper applied context.


----------



## iamnotpretending (Dec 18, 2020)

paradoxper said:


> As you are new, and this argument is old, I get it. Enjoy what you like. You just can't complain within proper applied context.


Maybe new to Headfi, not new to audiophilia in general but okay. Also, _is the argument old though?_ It's not clear to me that there is any reasonable customer education with actual stats that explain what the possible solutions are. Really want to know and find them if they exist.
Not trying to argue with you but clearly I have amps that are rated appropriate to drive these and I honestly don't think anyone has ever challenged this about the industry as I am literally unable to see any objective data about this - unavailable from the manufacturers or the community.


----------



## Roasty

I came from where you're at. Had a hpa4 and wa22 which I thought were more than well capable of driving the TC. But as usual, curiosity got the better of me, coupled with the need/urge to spend money on pretty things.. 

It's a fun hobby man. That search for the last 1 percent is a double edged sword.. Anyways it's all good. Especially when the wife doesn't complain.


----------



## iamnotpretending

Roasty said:


> I came from where you're at. Had a hpa4 and wa22 which I thought were more than well capable of driving the TC. But as usual, curiosity got the better of me, coupled with the need/urge to spend money on pretty things..
> 
> It's a fun hobby man. That search for the last 1 percent is a double edged sword.. Anyways it's all good. Especially when the wife doesn't complain.


Curious what you're driving them now with and what your feelings are about the Benchmark matched with them.


----------



## paradoxper

iamnotpretending said:


> Maybe new to Headfi, not new to audiophilia in general but okay.
> Not trying to argue with you but clearly I have amps that are rated appropriate to drive these and I honestly don't think anyone has ever challenged this about the industry as I am literally unable to see any objective data about this - unavailable from the manufacturers or the community.


I like arguing just fine. Prefer it.   

Woo said it would be ok. Their ok is not good enough for you.

Your objective data is clear to read. output, impedance/sensitivity, SPL levels. You just don't like their answer. Ha.


----------



## Roasty

iamnotpretending said:


> Curious what you're driving them now with and what your feelings are about the Benchmark matched with them.



I went up the woo ladder and am now using the 33 JPS edition. 

Benchmark.. Well I got mesmerised by the good reviews on its neutrality, cleanliness, accuracy and fantastic measurements. However, as I found out, those factors don't necessarily equate to enjoyment.


----------



## iamnotpretending

Roasty said:


> Benchmark.. Well I got mesmerised by the good reviews on its neutrality, cleanliness, accuracy and fantastic measurements. However, as I found out, those factors don't necessarily equate to enjoyment.



Now that, I think is totally fair - the tubes to me are infinitely more enjoyable to listen to.


----------



## iamnotpretending

paradoxper said:


> Woo said it would be ok. Their ok is not good enough for you.



I might have explained it wrong - they said the WA6SE would not be good enough but it frankly works fine. But yeah, I don't like the answer because they didn't use any objective metrics like you list there and in fact they distracted from them by saying that they didn't matter - it's all just really confusing and misleading for customers.


----------



## paradoxper

iamnotpretending said:


> I might have explained it wrong - they said the WA6SE would not be good enough but it frankly works fine. But yeah, I don't like the answer because they didn't use any objective metrics like you list there and in fact they distracted from them by saying that they didn't matter - it's all just really confusing and misleading for customers.


Sure. They perhaps could have provided a pedantic explanation. I don't know exactly if you did ask for one.

My general feeling is there is a understood minimum reference for which is followed. Ish.
That is a 2 watt minimum. 

As such, I bet Woo's feelings are the WA6 is mediocre with the Abyss pairing and if they tried to oversell you this amp and you did not like it, you could cause them more headaches than they care to deal with.

Or maybe Woo staff's a bunch of idiots. Their engineers are semi-competent however.


----------



## jlbrach

paradoxper said:


> It's all subjective convolute. However, yes, you can do some basic calculation 42Ω 88dB - 115-120 dB equates 500mW - 1.5W.
> So you go listen to a 1w nominal amplifier and tell me you aren't disappointed.


bingo, exactly my point...there is a minimum necessary..after you reach that it is all subjective...


----------



## iamnotpretending (Dec 18, 2020)

paradoxper said:


> Sure. They perhaps could have provided a pedantic explanation. I don't know exactly if you did ask for one.
> 
> My general feeling is there is a understood minimum reference for which is followed. Ish.
> That is a 2 watt minimum.
> ...


Re: 2 watt minimum - Sure, I can buy that. Having that number at least gives me something I can buy an amp off of, you know? Because maybe I want something different from a Woo amp or Benchmark or something from a manufacturer who doesn't also sell those headphones (as Woo does) so I can be sure that it's a good pairing. That's really all I wanted to know from the manufacturers. The WA6-SE actually comes close to that at 1900mW for 60 ohms, whereas the amp they tried to have me trade up for has 1500mw at 60 ohms, so I still don't fully understand that recommendation from Woo.

Re: woo's feeling about the amps - That could be true for sure but it could be equally true that they feel really good about selling me an amp that's a multiple of what I already spent when I have something that works fine.


----------



## genefruit (Dec 18, 2020)

Retract


----------



## iamnotpretending

genefruit said:


> As a casual observer to this discussion, it appears it was Abyss and not Woo who said they amp in question would be insufficient.



Was both actually.


----------



## paradoxper

iamnotpretending said:


> Re: 2 watt minimum - Sure, I can buy that. Having that number at least gives me something I can buy an amp off of, you know? That's really all I wanted to know from the manufacturers. The WA6-SE actually comes close to that at 1900mW for 60 ohms, whereas the amp they tried to have me trade up for has 1500mw at 60 ohms, so I still don't fully understand that recommendation from Woo.
> 
> Re: woo's feeling about the amps - That could be true for sure but it could be equally true that they feel really good about selling me an amp that's a multiple of what I already spent when I have something that works fine.


Well, again, you have a heart of science, so do the calculations. And that number is arbitrary. You aren't accounting for component matching, SPL, personal acuity, dynamic range material, etc. It all plays a part.

I couldn't explain why Woo would recommend the WA22. I surmise you weren't speaking to one of their semi-competent engineers to begin so will stick with that accounting.

And Yup. Perhaps this industry isn't wholly incompetent however corrupt and commercially driven they must be to eat.


----------



## iamnotpretending

paradoxper said:


> I couldn't explain why Woo would recommend the WA22.


What's curious to me is they both suggested that amp and I still also don't fully understand why and if there are other specs are part of it, would have loved to have had that explained to me then. 



paradoxper said:


> Yup. Perhaps this industry isn't wholly incompetent however corrupt and commercially driven they must be to eat.



lol, fair enough.


----------



## Bonddam

I asked Woo awhile back what the was the wattage at 50 ohms on WA33 and they didn’t want to tell me. All they said music and power is dynamic. So they claim 10 watts on that amp wondering where that lies.


----------



## ra990

iamnotpretending said:


> @paradoxper Wanted to take this a step further so I put on a metal album through the WA6 Gen 1 - headphones more than loud enough, no detail lost.
> After that I plugged them in to an AudioQuest Cobalt into my iPhone - again enough power to drive them and sounds great. The volume is almost all the way up, which is JUST about too loud for me.
> 
> At this point, I'm starting to think these headphones are pretty damned easy to drive so I plug them directly into the headphone to lightning adapter with no additional amplification and AGAIN - I'm still getting great sounding output with these headphones. The volume is all the way maxed out so in this configuration, I could be maybe missing something but honestly it sounds pretty damned good to me still.
> ...


While this may be true, it's not just about getting the volume high enough. There's a huge difference in the sound quality that you'll definitely be able to hear with these headphones if you provide it better power.


----------



## iamnotpretending

ra990 said:


> While this may be true, it's not just about getting the volume high enough. There's a huge difference in the sound quality that you'll definitely be able to hear with these headphones if you provide it better power.



I believe it and agree having (more than) enough power makes for a better experience but I also think there must be some specification or some data point that will illuminate what defines that better sound quality and not having that data is what is objectively frustrating.


----------



## Roasty

iamnotpretending said:


> I believe it and agree having (more than) enough power makes for a better experience but I also think there must be some specification or some data point that will illuminate what defines that better sound quality and not having that data is what is objectively frustrating.



I guess the same applies for audiophile cables, power cords, racks, feet and ethernet switches etc etc..


----------



## ken6217

ra990 said:


> While this may be true, it's not just about getting the volume high enough. There's a huge difference in the sound quality that you'll definitely be able to hear with these headphones if you provide it better power.



Theres a saying. You don’t know what you don’t know. 

Not only is there a huge difference in sound quality with more power, but there’s more to it than that. It’s everything else that goes along with a good quality amp such as the power supply, and other components inside the amp. If not, then every amp with the same power output with sound exactly the same.


----------



## buke9

jlbrach said:


> you are correct in everything you say....lots of the discussions about amps and power requirements are purely subjective thus making the whole discussion frustrating...personally I have heard my susvara and abyss TC sound better through amps rated as less powerful than amps more powerful...for instance my formula s/powerman combo outputs 6 watts /16ohms and to my ears sounds better than numerous other amps I have listened to that have specs telling me they should be more powerful and better for these inefficient HP's...I too find it all very confusing and have come to the conclusion that there is a minimum amount of power needed for these HP's and after that it all becomes subjective...if you meet the minimum then it is a matter of what you like or dont like


Yes it is subjective but have to say my original Cavalli Liquid Carbon drives my OG’s much better than the Monoprice Liquid Platinum and the THX 789 while both say they are 6 watts for close to the impedance they are a bit of hollow sounding ( sold the THX but kept the Platinum as it is nice with my Verites) the Carbon while with less stated power just sounds so much better but still my choice is the Master 9.


----------



## iamnotpretending

I've heard really nice things about the Audio GD stuff - would you mind describing the character of the amp?


----------



## jlbrach

buke9 said:


> Yes it is subjective but have to say my original Cavalli Liquid Carbon drives my OG’s much better than the Monoprice Liquid Platinum and the THX 789 while both say they are 6 watts for close to the impedance they are a bit of hollow sounding ( sold the THX but kept the Platinum as it is nice with my Verites) the Carbon while with less stated power just sounds so much better but still my choice is the Master 9.


nobody I know here suggests an amp of the same power specs that cost 10% of another will be equal...just that they both can drive the HP satisfactorily


----------



## buke9

jlbrach said:


> nobody I know here suggests an amp of the same power specs that cost 10% of another will be equal...just that they both can drive the HP satisfactorily


Not for for sure what you mean by that?  I was just saying my Liquid Carbon would drive the Abyss well but the higher powered Monoprice Liquid Platinum and Drop THX 789 would not do as well.


----------



## jlbrach

I mean that a 6k amp witj the same power output as one costing 600 dollars will not be equal


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> I mean that a 6k amp witj the same power output as one costing 600 dollars will not be equal


Wait just a minute. Even though that 6k amp has nothing short of $600 in parts.


----------



## jlbrach

yes because you can say that about any component, car, tv, camera etc


----------



## Jon L

paradoxper said:


> Wait just a minute. Even though that 6k amp has nothing short of $600 in parts.



LOL.  And that $600 amp with $60 worth of parts...


----------



## MWeston (Dec 19, 2020)

Hello all! 

Does anyone know if the 1266's connector pinout makes it compatible with other headphone cables?  Perhaps Audeze cables maybe?  ZMF?

Edit:  Oops!  I just noticed that the 1266 is a 3-pin and these other headphones are 4-pin.  Damn, I really wanted to try other cables that I have.


----------



## ken6217

MWeston said:


> Hello all!
> 
> Does anyone know if the 1266's connector pinout makes it compatible with other headphone cables?  Perhaps Audeze cables maybe?  ZMF?



I don’t know about ZMF, but definitely not Audeze.


----------



## vonBaron

Wrong, i have cable for Audeze and it works with 1266 but you can damage pins by doing that.


----------



## MWeston

ken6217 said:


> I don’t know about ZMF, but definitely not Audeze.


I just noticed that my ZMF cable is a 4-pin so it's no good either.


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> Wrong, i have cable for Audeze and it works with 1266 but you can damage pins by doing that.



Isn’t it 3 pin versus 4 pin?

So you can damage it by doing it, but it works. What does that mean?


----------



## vonBaron

Yes, i know but it still works, Abyss cable don't work with Audeze but Audeze works with Abyss.

I mean that this cable not mean to be connected to 3pin HP, but still works, connectors dont clicks so it will fall of.


----------



## jlbrach

I would suggest not doing that


----------



## vonBaron

Well don't blame me if somethigs go sideway.


----------



## paradoxper

vonBaron said:


> Well don't blame me if somethigs go sideway.


No, no you said it works. LMAO.


----------



## MWeston

Well, I know it's pretty obvious by now but I found this in my searches and I wouldn't want someone thinking that drinking bleach cures Coronavirus or that you should stuff a 4pin connector into a 3-pin hole.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-15437141


----------



## Abyss Headphones

For those interested in another big boy toy...


----------



## zenlisten

Abyss Headphones said:


> For those interested in another big boy toy...




Really great that the new guy is participating (although I miss Eric) which seems to bring more focus to the discussion. I wish he would always participate going forward.


----------



## Fafner

I should receive my new AB-1266 Complete tomorrow, can't wait!
Greetings from Switzerland!


----------



## SteveM324

ZMF and Audeze LCD use the same pinout, so a 1266 TC cable wouldn’t work for either of them.


----------



## cjarrett (Dec 21, 2020)

Fafner said:


> I should receive my new AB-1266 Complete tomorrow, can't wait!
> Greetings from Switzerland!


I was really impressed with the following flac rips after a few days of listening (in case you like the same albums).  It felt like rediscovering some of them again.

grizzly Bear - Vecktamist
Daft punk - discovery
Vampire Weekend - S/T
Spoon - Gimme Fiction
John Hopkins - Immunity
Gorrilaz - Plastic Beach.  Plastic Beach is perhaps my most tested album in terms of high quality gear.  This might be the first time I've listened to Stylo and felt it as delectable as gelato.


----------



## zenlisten (Dec 22, 2020)

Received the headphones today and they work flawlessly when connected to the XLR outputs of the Chord Hugo TT2 via the NEUTRIK female-to-female joiners.
I had to order this pair without being able to listen to them beforehand (due to living in a small country + COVID).
Now it's clear that it's been an excellent decision. They sound truly amazing. Never heard headphones like these before. Very happy.


----------



## Redwingnine (Dec 22, 2020)

Got a question for 1266 owners:

1) Anyone using Spritzer's Pure Bipolar to drive the 1266?
2) Anyone using the Pass Labs HPA-1 to drive the 1266?

If so, would appreciate thoughts/observations.  Curranty using the Pure Bipolar with the 1266 phi.  Seems to drive the phones fairly well.  I've seen a lot of posts with folks using a a speaker power amp to drive the 1266.  That seems dangerous to me, as it would be pretty easy to blow the drivers if a mistake with the volume knob.

Was looking to see if anyone has compared using the Pure Bipolar and the HPA-1 driving the 1266, and what the observations were.


----------



## paradoxper

Redwingnine said:


> Got a question for 1266 owners:
> 
> 1) Anyone using Spritzer's Pure Bipolar to drive the 1266?
> 2) Anyone using the Pass Labs HPA-1 to drive the 1266?
> ...


The SuSy Dynahi or CFA would be a good bridge for you if you enjoy the Bipolar. I don't believe Birgir is keen on building Dynahis anymore and I don't believe he's built a CFA.
Alternatively there are a number of other very talented builders. The easier route might be a GS-X if DIY isn't a path for you.
The HPA-1 is a good amp but better suited at driving dynamics.

Dangerous, mistake may be key words. Otherwise, taking care, you'll be just fine.


----------



## ken6217

I haven't used Birgir's Bipolar Pure Power amp on my 1266, but did with my LCD4's and it was fantastic. Worth a try.


----------



## Redwingnine

paradoxper said:


> The SuSy Dynahi or CFA would be a good bridge for you if you enjoy the Bipolar. I don't believe Birgir is keen on building Dynahis anymore and I don't believe he's built a CFA.
> Alternatively there are a number of other very talented builders. The easier route might be a GS-X if DIY isn't a path for you.
> The HPA-1 is a good amp but better suited at driving dynamics.
> 
> Dangerous, mistake may be key words. Otherwise, taking care, you'll be just fine.



Hmm. I was actually looking at a First Watt amp (J2 or F7) to drive the 1266 from a M-Scaler/Hugo-2 setup.  Where does one get cables to connect from the amp to the headphones?


----------



## paradoxper

Redwingnine said:


> Hmm. I was actually looking at a First Watt amp (J2 or F7) to drive the 1266 from a M-Scaler/Hugo-2 setup.  Where does one get cables to connect from the amp to the headphones?


Those are good choices either way. I prefer the CFA to the handful of First Watt amps I've heard thus far driving the TC.

Any of the popular headphone cable manufacturers can make you a spade/banana adapter.


----------



## Abyss Headphones (Dec 22, 2020)

We have an AB-1266 TC owner / musician who just put out a new song completely mastered through the TC, using a JPS Labs Superconductor V guitar cable. I'm told it was his most complicated recording he's ever done, with about 250 tracks, combined into 2 channels. He told us there would have been no other way to do this using any other headphone or speakers.

DARK, 'The Surrealist'

On Tidal (possibly elsewhere),
tidal.com/browse/album/164013031?play=true

https://dark.co


----------



## SteveM324

I'll be getting my TC on Thursday, just in time for Christmas!


----------



## rayofsi

paradoxper said:


> Those are good choices either way. I prefer the CFA to the handful of First Watt amps I've heard thus far driving the TC.
> 
> Any of the popular headphone cable manufacturers can make you a spade/banana adapter.






CFA club lol. Not sure I want to venture into speaker amps


----------



## paradoxper

rayofsi said:


> CFA club lol. Not sure I want to venture into speaker amps


You do. You aren't going to flat-out exceed the CFA's performance, no matter.


----------



## cjarrett (Dec 22, 2020)

Should I be concerned using the Ragnarok as an amp?  I only use them on these phones, so there wouldn't be a sudden alteration in input volume.  Just getting worried given the previous conversation on amps.


----------



## jlbrach

the ragnarok is built to be a speaker amp and HP amp so you are good


----------



## vonBaron

My Phi TC is held by customs


----------



## paradoxper

vonBaron said:


> My Phi TC is held by customs


Happy Holidays!


----------



## vonBaron

paradoxper said:


> Happy Holidays!


You know what?


----------



## ra990

cjarrett said:


> Should I be concerned using the Ragnarok as an amp?  I only use them on these phones, so there wouldn't be a sudden alteration in input volume.  Just getting worried given the previous conversation on amps.


You'll be fine, probably a good match in fact. Rag1 or Rag2?


----------



## vonBaron

My Phi TC just arrived!


----------



## vonBaron

Did TC need burn in time?


----------



## MatW (Dec 23, 2020)

vonBaron said:


> Did TC need burn in time?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-602#post-15226212
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-675#post-15441100

100+ hours, apparently.


----------



## vonBaron

Yes, highs are quite too bright for me right now (with Lazuli Ultra).
With Phi i don't get that.
I will burn them hard!


----------



## vonBaron

Later i will plug them into my ICan with Tube mode so they will play more warmer.
Now GS-X mini + TC and my pants are full


----------



## makan

vonBaron said:


> Later i will plug them into my ICan with Tube mode so they will play more warmer.
> Now GS-X mini + TC and my pants are full


I have the ican and with the tube on, it does warm it up


----------



## JLoud

vonBaron said:


> Later i will plug them into my ICan with Tube mode so they will play more warmer.
> Now GS-X mini + TC and my pants are full


I'm hoping something was lost in translation. Otherwise I'm picturing things I don't want to picture.


----------



## vonBaron (Dec 23, 2020)

LOL, anus faliure! Nah i hold it thight but it was hard...

Stock cable from Phi TC are same like on older Phi?


----------



## vonBaron

Bass is way better on Phi TC than Phi, even when i close frame too much it is still there not like on Phi when half quanity of bass go away.
Mids have more meat i don't have that felling of "dry" midrange anymore, vocals are way better.
Highs are quit sharp but it ok, after burn in time it should go away.


----------



## stemiki

Merry Christmas and good greetings to all friends!


----------



## genefruit (Dec 24, 2020)

My new setup has arrived and while I was waiting, I had to build a stand.


----------



## InstantSilence

Anyone with the TC heard it out of a McIntosh 250?


----------



## Ayodej

Hi guys, hoping I can get some quick help. When using speakers amps to power the 1266, should the 8 ohm or 4 ohm outputs be used? I currently have them hooked up to the 4 ohm output on my amp and it sounds fine but not sure if that’s the right way to go about it. Is one output safer to use than the other for the headphones? Thanks and happy holidays!


----------



## ken6217

Ayodej said:


> Hi guys, hoping I can get some quick help. When using speakers amps to power the 1266, should the 8 ohm or 4 ohm outputs be used? I currently have them hooked up to the 4 ohm output on my amp and it sounds fine but not sure if that’s the right way to go about it. Is one output safer to use than the other for the headphones? Thanks and happy holidays!



Try it both ways and see which sounds better. I have mine hooked up to the 8 ohm tap, but have tried it on the 4 ohm and it didn’t sound as good.

My amp has the same output of power regardless of which tap I use.

How many watts is your amp? I wouldn’t be concerned of doing any damage as long as you do everything safely. I know someone from this forum that is using an amp that’s 250w into 8 ohms.


----------



## Slim1970

I got the V281 as Christmas present for myself. It drives the TC's wonderfully!


----------



## Litlgi74 (Dec 25, 2020)

https://tidal.com/track/9599744

Merry Christmas... Wishing everyone good health and glorious Abyss listening.


----------



## ken6217

Slim1970 said:


> I got the V281 as Christmas present for myself. It drives the TC's wonderfully!



Nice. Great Amp.


----------



## Slim1970

ken6217 said:


> Nice. Great Amp.


It truly is, I just hate I waited so long to get one. The sound signature of the V281 is just about perfect for all of my headphones. The control is has over the drivers, the bass heft, wide soundstage, airy treble, and weighted sound is amazing.


----------



## ken6217

Experiment with the gain setttings. You will find that one of them for your set up I’ll give you bigger and deeper soundstage. It maybe be “0”. There were threads about this along time ago on the Violectric  forums.


----------



## Slim1970

ken6217 said:


> Experiment with the gain setttings. You will find that one of them for your set up I’ll give you bigger and deeper soundstage. It maybe be “0”. There were threads about this along time ago on the Violectric  forums.


Unfortunately, the TC's needs more power than the unity gain setting. For the majority of my headphones that would be fine. I was actually using the -6 dB setting to get some play on the volume dial. The V281 is a very powerful and extremely detailed amp. Even at the +6 dB setting I'm using for the TC's, the soundstage is deep, wide and holographic. I love this thing. It maintains the TT2's transparency levels as well.

I'll be getting a XI Audio Formula S soon. I want to see how it will compare to it. We shall see......


----------



## ken6217

Slim1970 said:


> Unfortunately, the TC's needs more power than the unity gain setting. For the majority of my headphones that would be fine. I was actually using the -6 dB setting to get some play on the volume dial. The V281 is a very powerful and extremely detailed amp. Even at the +6 dB setting I'm using for the TC's, the soundstage is deep, wide and holographic. I love this thing. It maintains the TT2's transparency levels as well.
> 
> I'll be getting a XI Audio Formula S soon. I want to see how it will compare to it. We shall see......



it also depends on the output voltage of the DACnd if your using balances or single ended interconnects.

I used the V281 prior to my speaker amp. I listened at -6db and 0. I set it so that the listening level was at about 12:00.


----------



## Slim1970

ken6217 said:


> it also depends on the output voltage of the DACnd if your using balances or single ended interconnects.
> 
> I used the V281 prior to my speaker amp. I listened at -6db and 0. I set it so that the listening level was at about 12:00.


At +6 dB on the V281 I’m at about 1 o’clock on the volume dial with the TC’s. I suppose at unity gain, ”0”, I could get a bit more play on the volume dial. In DAC mode on the TT2, it outputs 2.5 volts. I could go variable out by putting the TT2 into AMP mode and low gain. But so far, I like what I’m hearing at +6 dB.


----------



## Bonddam

I love listening to Burson Conductor 3XR with Sparko op amps installed. I find it pumps out the bass really good.


----------



## jlbrach

I briefly owned the 281 and used it with my dave at -3 and I literally had to turn down to -6 to listen without too much volume so go figure


----------



## Ayodej

ken6217 said:


> Try it both ways and see which sounds better. I have mine hooked up to the 8 ohm tap, but have tried it on the 4 ohm and it didn’t sound as good.
> 
> My amp has the same output of power regardless of which tap I use.
> 
> How many watts is your amp? I wouldn’t be concerned of doing any damage as long as you do everything safely. I know someone from this forum that is using an amp that’s 250w into 8 ohms.


Thanks for you response! I'm just trying them out on my newly received Doge 10 tube amp primarily bought for my speakers, which I believe sends 60wpc into 8 ohms. I suppose a higher resistance would halve the power output so it would probably make more sense to use the 8ohm taps than the 4ohm so that less power is pushed to the headphones making it safer? Or is that not even a factor when connecting 47ohm headphones?... I'm not very good at understanding how everything converts mathematically so I don't really know.. but I am making sure to do the hooking up process correctly and safely starting at very low volumes


----------



## ken6217

Ayodej said:


> Thanks for you response! I'm just trying them out on my newly received Doge 10 tube amp primarily bought for my speakers, which I believe sends 60wpc into 8 ohms. I suppose a higher resistance would halve the power output so it would probably make more sense to use the 8ohm taps than the 4ohm so that less power is pushed to the headphones making it safer? Or is that not even a factor when connecting 47ohm headphones?... I'm not very good at understanding how everything converts mathematically so I don't really know.. but I am making sure to do the hooking up process correctly and safely starting at very low volumes



Make sure amp on last, and off first.


----------



## jonno41

Has anyone had any experience using the Abyss 1266 Phi with a Bakoon R13 amplifier.Any help appreciated.Thanks


----------



## MatW (Dec 27, 2020)

jonno41 said:


> Has anyone had any experience using the Abyss 1266 Phi with a Bakoon R13 amplifier.Any help appreciated.Thanks



I hope this helps... 

https://www.head-fi.org/search/3473746/?q=Bakoon&t=post&c[thread]=666765&o=date


----------



## vonBaron

For me i like 1266 TC more than Susvara especially in metal music.


----------



## MatW

vonBaron said:


> For me i like 1266 TC more than Susvara especially in metal music.


Now post this in the Susvara thread...  

I agree but still like rotating the headphones for a different experience. Both fantastic headphones imo.


----------



## MatW

vonBaron said:


> For me i like 1266 TC more than Susvara especially in metal music.


How's the treble now?


----------



## vonBaron

I don't wanted to be eat alive 


MatW said:


> Now post this in the Susvara thread...
> 
> I agree but still like rotating the headphones for a different experience. Both fantastic headphones imo.


----------



## vonBaron

MatW said:


> How's the treble now?


Still quite sharp, i heard SC cable will smooth highs but it still cost 2600$...


----------



## rayofsi

vonBaron said:


> For me i like 1266 TC more than Susvara especially in metal music.


I'm liking my 1266 TC more then Susvara and everything else i have. They are that good! Makes me think so much about the Superconductor cable


----------



## jlbrach

jonno41 said:


> Has anyone had any experience using the Abyss 1266 Phi with a Bakoon R13 amplifier.Any help appreciated.Thanks


I owned the bakoon 13r and I own the formula s/powerman...the 13r is excellent and a terrific convenient size but if you are looking for an amp for the abyss TC the formula s combo is better


----------



## stemiki

vonBaron said:


> Still quite sharp, i heard SC cable will smooth highs but it still cost 2600$...



In my experience, the SC hasn't attenuated the high frequencies, which instead have more micro details. However, even with the stock cable, I didn't experience any annoying or tiring high frequencies. I would like to look elsewhere in the setup for bothersome acute problems, like interconnect cables, etc. or RFI / EMI disturbances.


----------



## SteveM324

vonBaron said:


> Still quite sharp, i heard SC cable will smooth highs but it still cost 2600$...


If the highs are bright or sharp then something in your system is causing it.  I received my brand new 1266 TC yesterday, and sound quality is fantastic right out of the box.  So far, I've only tried driving them with my solid state Luxman P700u (4.2 W/ch), but I'll try them on my vacuum tube Auris Nirvana later today.  Out of the Luxman, the 1266 TC exhibits no brightness at all, a very big soundstage, excellent imaging and natural tonality.  Vocals and piano, two of the most difficult tones to get right, sound pure and natural.   The bass is articulate and well extended.  I have no complaints with my 1266TC even though they're not fully burned in.  I think the stock cables on the 1266 TC are fine and that's coming from a person that has never used stock cables on a headphone (I've owned quite a few headphones) that has replaceable cables.  If you want the SC cables, that's fine, but I don't think the stock cable is the source of your issues.


----------



## tholt

SteveM324 said:


> If the highs are bright or sharp then something in your system is causing it.  I received my brand new 1266 TC yesterday, and sound quality is fantastic right out of the box.  So far, I've only tried driving them with my solid state Luxman P700u (4.2 W/ch), but I'll try them on my vacuum tube Auris Nirvana later today.  Out of the Luxman, the 1266 TC exhibits no brightness at all, a very big soundstage, excellent imaging and natural tonality.  Vocals and piano, two of the most difficult tones to get right, sound pure and natural.   The bass is articulate and well extended.  I have no complaints with my 1266TC even though they're not fully burned in.  I think the stock cables on the 1266 TC are fine and that's coming from a person that has never used stock cables on a headphone (I've owned quite a few headphones) that has replaceable cables.  If you want the SC cables, that's fine, but I don't think the stock cable is the source of your issues.


The Luxman is hardly neutral, and one could argue it's warmish and a bit soft, so I don't think yours is a totally fair assessment. I've heard the sharpness he speaks of on plenty of amps and different cables. It can definitely be exacerbated by upstream gear, but it isn't necessarily because of it. It's inherent in the design IMO.


----------



## ken6217

tholt said:


> The Luxman is hardly neutral, and one could argue it's warmish and a bit soft, so I don't think yours is a totally fair assessment. I've heard the sharpness he speaks of on plenty of amps and different cables. It can definitely be exacerbated by upstream gear, but it isn't necessarily because of it. It's inherent in the design IMO.



Spot on regarding the Luxman as well as the rest of your post.


----------



## jlbrach

in general I find that HP's like the TC or susvara or utopia that are incredibly detailed can sound bright depending on the source...I am using the dave/blu2 with my TC and it can sound bright with poorly recorded recordings but in general sounds marvelous


----------



## SteveM324

tholt said:


> The Luxman is hardly neutral, and one could argue it's warmish and a bit soft, so I don't think yours is a totally fair assessment. I've heard the sharpness he speaks of on plenty of amps and different cables. It can definitely be exacerbated by upstream gear, but it isn't necessarily because of it. It's inherent in the design IMO.


Well if that's the case, then the Luxman is a synergistic match for the TC because it sounds great.  No softness detected with the Luxman driving the TC.  I would agree that the Luxman sounds soft on the Susvara but not on the TC.  I'll be trying my Auris Nirvana tonight on the TC.  The Nirvana is much better than the Luxman on the Susvara.  The Nirvana isn't soft sounding on the Susvara, it's a very dynamic combination, with a holographic soundstage.  I'll soon find out how the Nirvana/TC combo sounds.


----------



## rayofsi

SteveM324 said:


> Well if that's the case, then the Luxman is a synergistic match for the TC because it sounds great.  No softness detected with the Luxman driving the TC.  I would agree that the Luxman sounds soft on the Susvara but not on the TC.  I'll be trying my Auris Nirvana tonight on the TC.  The Nirvana is much better than the Luxman on the Susvara.  The Nirvana isn't soft sounding on the Susvara, it's a very dynamic combination, with a holographic soundstage.  I'll soon find out how the Nirvana/TC combo sounds.


thats probably the 6.5watts vs the 4.2watt. The Susvara are power hungry..


----------



## SteveM324

rayofsi said:


> thats probably the 6.5watts vs the 4.2watt. The Susvara are power hungry..


Yes, I know.


----------



## SteveM324

The Nirvana with the recent tubes I rolled in, sounds great with the TC.  No issues with the high frequencies or any other part of the sound spectrum.  I've been fiddling with the set-up of these headphones (I already watched Joe's 2 videos on set up and tuning) but I think I got it dialed in at least for now.  I have close to 50 hours on it and I'll continue to burn them in for several days.  I was concerned before getting the TC about comfort but I haven't has any issues wearing them for several hours at a time.


----------



## jonno41

MatW said:


> I hope this helps...
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/search/3473746/?q=Bakoon&t=post&c[thread]=666765&o=date


Very helpful,thanks


----------



## Abyss Headphones

Happy New Year guys!


----------



## tholt

West coast here so not out of the woods just yet! HNY


----------



## jonno41

Abyss Headphones said:


> Happy New Year guys!


The same to you from a hot and sunny New Zealand


----------



## stemiki




----------



## simorag (Jan 1, 2021)

So, how about beginning the new year with some great music that sounds spectacular with the AB-1266?

Grandiose soundstage and dynamics, spot-on orchestral colors.





Easy one, just crank up the volume and press play, reward assured since the very first seconds 





Interesting mix of jazz and electronica, with a strong bass foundation, from Italy.





Krautrock at its best, great musicianship, great trip!


----------



## Bonddam

I'm loving my new HeadTrip 2 amp with 1266 TC. Compliments my WA33 very well it's neutral.


----------



## jlbrach

that is a really high end and complementary pair of amps


----------



## Mikey99

simorag said:


> So, how about beginning the new year with some great music that sounds spectacular with the AB-1266?
> 
> Grandiose soundstage and dynamics, spot-on orchestral colors.
> 
> ...


I only recently discovered CAN, they are fantastic! And this album is their best.


----------



## zenlisten

simorag said:


> So, how about beginning the new year with some great music that sounds spectacular with the AB-1266?


----------



## Blueoris

vonBaron said:


> Still quite sharp, i heard SC cable will smooth highs but it still cost 2600$...


May I ask what amplifier were you using and what songs were you playing when you noticed the sharpness with the TC?
I have read that TC's are "less sharp" than CC's, an opinion I take as a grain of salt because my CC's are not sharp at all when connected to the speaker taps of my amps (First Watt J2, Yamaha A-S3200, Denon AVR X3700) and I know the definition of sharp with a previous gear combo (Oppo HA-1 as DAC/pream to Primaluna Dialogue Power Amp to KEF LS50).


----------



## Abyss Headphones

Joshua Valour had a few good things to say, 'best headphone of the decade' was one of them...


----------



## SECRET M

folks, I just took the plunge. i sold my car in exchange for an email confirmation that i ordered the 1266 tcs and about $10k worth of cables and boxes. 

now i wonder how long it will be before i can have a listen.


----------



## ken6217

SECRET M said:


> folks, I just took the plunge. i sold my car in exchange for an email confirmation that i ordered the 1266 tcs and about $10k worth of cables and boxes.
> 
> now i wonder how long it will be before i can have a listen.



I hope you saved some money for the psychiatrist.


----------



## SECRET M

ken6217 said:


> I hope you saved some money for the psychiatrist.



I can't sell an apartment I don't own. Maybe the system will do well on the 2nd market if it comes to that.


----------



## Ragnar-BY

SECRET M said:


> i sold my car in exchange for an email confirmation that i ordered the 1266 tcs and about $10k worth of cables and boxes


Actually, it might be good decision. Cars normally loose value much faster than hi-fi.


----------



## SECRET M

Ragnar-BY said:


> Actually, it might be good decision. Cars normally loose value much faster than hi-fi.



I need to surround myself with more people like you!


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

SECRET M said:


> folks, I just took the plunge. i sold my car in exchange for an email confirmation that i ordered the 1266 tcs and about $10k worth of cables and boxes.
> 
> now i wonder how long it will be before i can have a listen.



That's cool. What amp are you going to use?


----------



## SECRET M

DuncanDirkDick said:


> That's cool. What amp are you going to use?



I've decided to get the full kit as designed for the 1266

· xiaudio formula s amp​· xiaudio sagra dac​· xiaudio powerman - this feels like overkill but ill play with things to see how much i can "hear" this benefit​· jps labs superconductor 4 xlr interconnects​· jps labs superconductor 1266 tc cable upgrade (to 4 pin xlr)​· jps labs kaptovator lite AC cable​


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> I hope you saved some money for the psychiatrist.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

SECRET M said:


> I've decided to get the full kit as designed for the 1266
> 
> · xiaudio formula s amp​· xiaudio sagra dac​· xiaudio powerman - this feels like overkill but ill play with things to see how much i can "hear" this benefit​· jps labs superconductor 4 xlr interconnects​· jps labs superconductor 1266 tc cable upgrade (to 4 pin xlr)​· jps labs kaptovator lite AC cable​



Going for the full experience. Nice. I like to experiment though.


----------



## SECRET M

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Going for the full experience. Nice. I like to experiment though.



Good point! Any suggestions as to where to start when I'm ready to venture off the beaten path [although the eleven audio path doesn't seem that well traveled!]?


----------



## Redwingnine

Made an interesting discovery of late.  Had recently picked up a custom OTL headphone amp for general headphone use.  The amp uses one 6SL7 and one 6080 tube.  It's ideal load is 40 ohms, which is perfect for the 1266 phi.   The write up on the amp design a d circuit can be found on pages 24 and 25 of the following link:
https://web.archive.org/web/2013112.../Pioneering-Wireless/eMagazines/VTV/VTV11.pdf

Decided to try this amp with the 1266.   It worked better than I could have possibly imagined.  The depth, clarity,  and overall sound is a amazing.  The amp does has extra filtering and all filaments DC, along with 5691 RCA red base and Bendix 6080 tubes.   The separation of the instruments and low level retrieval is remarkable.  The amp has sufficient power to drive the 1266 to ear splitting levels.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

SECRET M said:


> Good point! Any suggestions as to where to start when I'm ready to venture off the beaten path [although the eleven audio path doesn't seem that well traveled!]?



Sure. I'd get rid of the cables and go for a nice Woo WA33 fed by the Manhattan II or the saga. Honestly I'd like to get your input regarding the saga. I personally don't think it's worth it but maybe I'm wrong there. Otherwise it looks fine to me.


----------



## SECRET M

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Sure. I'd get rid of the cables and go for a nice Woo WA33 fed by the Manhattan II or the saga. Honestly I'd like to get your input regarding the saga. I personally don't think it's worth it but maybe I'm wrong there. Otherwise it looks fine to me.



Great suggestion! Maybe I'll give the Formula S a shot then save up for the WA33 when my audio vocabulary comes closer to the equipment I just bought!


----------



## Bonddam

SECRET M said:


> I've decided to get the full kit as designed for the 1266
> 
> · xiaudio formula s amp​· xiaudio sagra dac​· xiaudio powerman - this feels like overkill but ill play with things to see how much i can "hear" this benefit​· jps labs superconductor 4 xlr interconnects​· jps labs superconductor 1266 tc cable upgrade (to 4 pin xlr)​· jps labs kaptovator lite AC cable​


I had this exact setup last January it was very good. I did not of the AC cable though.


----------



## SECRET M

Bonddam said:


> I had this exact setup last January it was very good. I did not of the AC cable though.



Awesome! What are you using now?


----------



## Bonddam

The Sagra DAC was good if I remember it didn't sound soft. The triple combo of the 11 audio was really good sounding. I can't remember too much as my brain adjusted to the WA33 with Hugo TT2 setup. I believe the latter had more 3d sound to it with right tubes.


----------



## Bonddam

SECRET M said:


> Awesome! What are you using now?


Using WA33 and Wells Audio HeadTrip 2 with Hugo TT2. Waiting for my EML tubes and EH gold pin tubes. Also have a Manhattan 2 coming. Currently the Psvane ACME tubes and stock drivers aren't as good as the EML 300B 2.5 and gold pins.


----------



## jlbrach

Abyss Headphones said:


> Joshua Valour had a few good things to say, 'best headphone of the decade' was one of them...



excellent review but in what universe is the soundstage on the susvara wider than the abyss TC?....


----------



## InstantSilence

Bonddam said:


> The Sagra DAC was good if I remember it didn't sound soft. The triple combo of the 11 audio was really good sounding. I can't remember too much as my brain adjusted to the WA33 with Hugo TT2 setup. I believe the latter had more 3d sound to it with right tubes.


How do you feel about the quality of sound with just Hugo (back of it) with the TC?


----------



## Randy Myers

SECRET M said:


> I've decided to get the full kit as designed for the 1266
> 
> · xiaudio formula s amp​· xiaudio sagra dac​· xiaudio powerman - this feels like overkill but ill play with things to see how much i can "hear" this benefit​· jps labs superconductor 4 xlr interconnects​· jps labs superconductor 1266 tc cable upgrade (to 4 pin xlr)​· jps labs kaptovator lite AC cable​



Great looking setup.  I use speakers at home but use my Diana Phi mainly are for portable use (occasionally through my main rig).  The only thing that am not sure about is the DAC.  It looks like a great piece but I do not see that it can handle DSD.  Once you listen to DSD you can never go back  .  I am a huge DSD fan especially higher level DSD such as DSD256 or DSD512..  It just sounds so much better.  I would recommend looking into T+A if you want to step your digital to an even higher level.


----------



## Bonddam

Randy Myers said:


> Great looking setup.  I use speakers at home but use my Diana Phi mainly are for portable use (occasionally through my main rig).  The only thing that am not sure about is the DAC.  It looks like a great piece but I do not see that it can handle DSD.  Once you listen to DSD you can never go back  .  I am a huge DSD fan especially higher level DSD such as DSD256 or DSD512..  It just sounds so much better.  I would recommend looking into T+A if you want to step your digital to an even higher level.


I think I remember playing my one DSD album through it.


----------



## vonBaron (Jan 4, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> excellent review but in what universe is the soundstage on the susvara wider than the abyss TC?....


I don't agree on this either, for me soundstage is similar on TC and Susvara.
But we don't know what gear he used to listen TC.


----------



## Shahrose

vonBaron said:


> I don't agree on this either, for me soundstage is similar on TC and Susvara.
> But we don't know what gear he used to listen TC.



Exactly, we don't know the gear he uses to test headphones. 

Also, I do find the Susvara, properly-amped, have a deeper soundstage than the TC while the latter is a little wider sounding.


----------



## jlbrach

spot on and I agree 100%..the susvara is deeper and the abyss wider


----------



## InstantSilence

Shahrose said:


> Exactly, we don't know the gear he uses to test headphones.
> 
> Also, I do find the Susvara, properly-amped, have a deeper soundstage than the TC while the latter is a little wider sounding.


Which is best resolution, clarity and detail?


----------



## MatW

InstantSilence said:


> Which is best resolution, clarity and detail?



Both.


----------



## ken6217

Shahrose said:


> Exactly, we don't know the gear he uses to test headphones.
> 
> Also, I do find the Susvara, properly-amped, have a deeper soundstage than the TC while the latter is a little wider sounding.



It does depend on the equipment.


----------



## jlbrach

both so detailed it is simply a matter of preference


----------



## vonBaron (Jan 6, 2021)

GS-X mini better than MK2


----------



## zenlisten (Jan 6, 2021)

vonBaron said:


>




Watched it. They put a lot of energy into making this video, and then they don't add the list of amps to the description? With the grade and starting time in video. How much more useful would that be! Also, there are a lot of US-only amps mentioned that are not available for me, and amps that are available here are not discussed. It's confusing that sometimes only the sound seems to be considered, other times other factors (price, size, internal DAC, driving Diana etc.). But at least this video makes it clear which amplifiers they recommend (A and A+) which is helpful.


----------



## paradoxper

vonBaron said:


> GS-X mini better than MK2



Yup. With a more agreeable signature.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

Chapters list has been added. We just recorded this late yesterday afternoon, DMS worked until midnight last night to get up for this morning.


----------



## ekfc63

Great video.  Valuable information. Really appreciate the effort.


----------



## zenlisten (Jan 7, 2021)

Abyss Headphones said:


> Chapters list has been added. We just recorded this late yesterday afternoon, DMS worked until midnight last night to get up for this morning.



Thank you so much for this! For reference let me copy it here, with grades:


Amplifier​AB-1266 TierVideo*XIAUDIO Broadway**A*​1:38​*XIAUDIO Broadway S**B*​2:17​*Benchmark HPA4**A½*​3:13​*XIAUDIO Formula S**A *(with Powerman *A+*)​4:08​*iFi Micro iDSD Black Label**C*​6:11​*HeadAmp GS-X Mini**A*​8:03​*HeadAmp GS-X mk2**C*​9:21​*Cavalli Liquid Spark**B*​10:39​*Woo Audio WA33 “JPS Edition”***A+*​11:57​*Woo Audio WA33 Elite Edition**A*​13:43​*Woo Audio WA33 Standard**A*​14:44​*Wells Audio Headtrip II**A*​15:26​*Audiovalve Solaris**B*​17:12​*THX AAA 789**D*​19:05​*Topping A90**B*​20:13​*Moon Audio 430A**B*​21:58​*iFi xCAN**C*​24:12​*JDS EL Amp II**B*​25:14​*Woo Audio WA11**C*​26:26​*Woo Audio WA5-LE**B*​27:45​

* Note that Woo Audio currently doesn’t offer a single variant of WA33 called “JPS Edition.” Instead, there are two JPS variants: “Standard + JPS Wires,” and “Elite Edition + JPS Wires.”


----------



## SECRET M

For those of you using the XIAUDIO Formula S, what gain setting is the right one for the 1266 ø TC?


----------



## InstantSilence

Can someone that used power banks please describe their experiences? Sound? Ect?


----------



## ekfc63

SECRET M said:


> For those of you using the XIAUDIO Formula S, what gain setting is the right one for the 1266 ø TC?



I use the high gain setting


----------



## jlbrach

SECRET M said:


> For those of you using the XIAUDIO Formula S, what gain setting is the right one for the 1266 ø TC?


high gain for me!


----------



## jlbrach

the formula s/powerman is worthy of the A+ given in the video...it is the best solid state amp I have heard


----------



## ken6217

Violectric V281 and their new offering, the V590 should be included in the review.

Maybe a separate review with speaker amps as well. With the ones I’ve tried, they take the 1266 to another level.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Violectric V281 and their new offering, the V590 should be included in the review.
> 
> Maybe a separate review with speaker amps as well. With the ones I’ve tried, they take the 1266 to another level.


I think it's mostly just gear they have in-house and have partnerships with.

Although they did leave the Bartok off, which is likely the best headamp they have/had.


----------



## SECRET M

Gear just arrived. Thanks to the Abyss folks for moving so fast to get me the hardware in record time!

Listening to my music on this is breathtaking. The drivers are still clearly getting used to me as it seems to be getting better and better over the course of the day. Had a couple tear jerkers already


----------



## Slim1970

ken6217 said:


> Violectric V281 and their new offering, the V590 should be included in the review.
> 
> Maybe a separate review with speaker amps as well. With the ones I’ve tried, they take the 1266 to another level.


I have the V281 and the Formula S, minus the Powerman at the moment, and their performance is eerily similar. Without the Powerman, the V281 is right there from a sound and performance standpoint. The bass output is about the same. The Formula S does dig a tad bit deeper, but detail and definition are on par with each other. It’s the midrange where they start to differ. The Formula S has a slightly more forward, fuller sounding midrange. The V281 has more upper midrange/lower treble presence giving it a more airy, open presentation. This gives the TC’s such a huge, wide open soundstage. It’s so detailed and the resolution is other worldly. Imaging is incredible on the TC/V281 pairing. This performance matches the Formula S minus the Powerman. I fully believe once I have the Powerman attached to the Formula S it will easily pull ahead. I can’t wait to add it.


----------



## jlbrach

I owned the 281 and at first had the formula s without the powerman and I tend to agree they were close with the formula s a bit better...once I added the powerman it was like a new amp....eerily quiet....wider..detailed...best amp with the abyss tc I have yet heard and great with susvara as well...I suppose you can get better but the cost is prohibitive...the powerman is a must add on


----------



## Slim1970

jlbrach said:


> I owned the 281 and at first had the formula s without the powerman and I tend to agree they were close with the formula s a bit better...once I added the powerman it was like a new amp....eerily quiet....wider..detailed...best amp with the abyss tc I have yet heard and great with susvara as well...I suppose you can get better but the cost is prohibitive...the powerman is a must add on


I am liking what I am hearing with the Formula S. It already edges out the V281 performance wise on its own without the Powerman. I'm watering at mouth to hear what the Powerman will do for the Formula S.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

zenlisten said:


> Thank you so much for this! For reference let me copy it here, with grades:
> 
> 
> Amplifier​AB-1266 TierVideo*XIAUDIO Broadway**A*​1:38​*XIAUDIO Broadway S**B*​2:17​*Benchmark HPA4**A½*​3:13​*XIAUDIO Formula S**A *(with Powerman *A+*)​4:08​*iFi Micro iDSD Black Label**C*​6:11​*HeadAmp GS-X Mini**A*​8:03​*HeadAmp GS-X mk2**C*​9:21​*Cavalli Liquid Spark**B*​10:39​*Woo Audio WA33 “JPS Edition”**A+*​11:57​*Woo Audio WA33 Elite Edition**A*​13:43​*Woo Audio WA33 Standard**A*​14:44​*Wells Audio Headtrip II**A*​15:26​*Audiovalve Solaris**B*​17:12​*THX AAA 789**D*​19:05​*Topping A90**B*​20:13​*Moon Audio 430A**B*​21:58​*iFi xCAN**C*​24:12​*JDS EL Amp II**B*​25:14​*Woo Audio WA11**C*​26:26​*Woo Audio WA5-LE**B*​27:45​
> ...


Great comparison.  Thank you Abyss.

Would be great to see how the Trafomatic Audio Primavera would compare ?    From pro internet reviews I think it would be at least an "A" most probably an "A+"  

Also the Hifiman EF-1000 (official partnering amp for the Susvara) would also be another great contender especially as it's one of the most powerful headphone amps on the commercial market at the moment and it's a hybrid amp (best of both worlds for overall sound and performance).


----------



## FLTWS

Good amplification always starts with a good power supply. An amp design can never sound any better than the quality of its power supply allows it to.


----------



## Articnoise

FLTWS said:


> Good amplification always starts with a good power supply. An amp design can never sound any better than the quality of its power supply allows it to.



That is also true for the servers, DACs and Network switches.


----------



## jlbrach (Jan 8, 2021)

FLTWS said:


> Good amplification always starts with a good power supply. An amp design can never sound any better than the quality of its power supply allows it to.


thats why the formula s sounds like a different amp with the powerman added, night and day improvement


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jan 9, 2021)

Well... I’ve tried again. I’ve added an actual subwoofer to the line outs of my amplifier. After tweaking the settings and crossover... I think it will remain a permanent addition and compliment to my TCs. The bass that the 1266 can produce can be some times jaw dropping. But I never really get that visceral feeling of a 2.1 loudspeaker setup... All that changed today.

I was searching the classifieds and found an incredible deal on a Paradigm Seismic 12... $150! This is the same sub I use in my 7.1 setup. So I figured I’d give it a go with my headphone setup. I am very glad I did. I’ve been messing with a Woojer Edge recently to try to recreate the missing visceral feeling of sub bass when listening to Dolby Atmos (Smyth Realiser) movies on my TCs. The Woojer is a cool device.... but I just found it be more of a novelty... and my wife said that I now looked even more ridiculous. 

Adding an actual sub fills in the gaps of the 1266’s missing sub bass very nicely. When listening to music, I have the gain on the amplifier set to where the LFE of the sub is barely audible. And because of the 1266’s open design... the sub adds just enough visceral pressure and thump to complete my headphone listening experience.

Check this (very clean recording) track out with you TCs and with a 2.0 or 2.1 loudspeaker setup... I think you will agree that we are indeed missing the sound and "feel" of LFE. With my current headphone setup and the Smyth Realiser... I may never need to listen to my loudspeakers again.




https://tidal.com/track/116440527


----------



## jlbrach

a subwoofer for the TC?....seriously?


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jan 9, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> a subwoofer for the TC?....seriously?


Don't knock it till you try it.

Did you demo the track on both loudspeakers and TCs?


----------



## rayofsi

jlbrach said:


> a subwoofer for the TC?....seriously?


I thought this was a 2.1 speaker setup thread.


----------



## jlbrach

I own the TC and couldnt imagine needing more bass


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Litlgi74 said:


> Well... I’ve tried again. I’ve added an actual subwoofer to the line outs of my amplifier. After tweaking the settings and crossover... I think it will remain a permanent addition and compliment to my TCs. The bass that the 1266 can produce can be some times jaw dropping. But I never really get that visceral feeling of a 2.1 loudspeaker setup... All that changed today.
> 
> I was searching the classifieds and found an incredible deal on a Paradigm Seismic 12... $150! This is the same sub I use in my 7.1 setup. So I figured I’d give it a go with my headphone setup. I am very glad I did. I’ve been messing with a Woojer Edge recently to try to recreate the missing visceral feeling of sub bass when listening to Dolby Atmos (Smyth Realiser) movies on my TCs. The Woojer is a cool device.... but I just found it be more of a novelty... and my wife said that I now looked even more ridiculous.
> 
> ...


Doesn't this defeat the object and advantage of using headphones with having a subwoofer bumping away whilst you have your headphones on......hilarious !


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

rayofsi said:


> I thought this was a 2.1 speaker setup thread.


Lol


----------



## Litlgi74

jlbrach said:


> I own the TC and couldnt imagine needing more bass


Don't knock it till you try it... Lol


----------



## Litlgi74

rayofsi said:


> I thought this was a 2.1 speaker setup thread.


I actually use my Realiser A16 to binaurally reproduce 24 channels of Dolby Atmos via my TCs.


----------



## InstantSilence

Litlgi74 said:


> I actually use my Realiser A16 to binaurally reproduce 24 channels of Dolby Atmos via my TCs.


Is this before if after the TT2. Is that thing truly impressive?


----------



## Litlgi74

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Doesn't this defeat the object and advantage of using headphones with having a subwoofer bumping away whilst you have your headphones on......hilarious !


Adding an actual sub fills in the gaps of the 1266’s missing sub bass very nicely. When listening to music, *I have the gain on the amplifier set to where the LFE of the sub is barely audible*. And because of the 1266’s open design... the sub adds just enough visceral pressure and thump to complete my headphone listening experience.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

I think I will play through my speakers whilst I am also listening with my headphones....just in case I need a bit more treble, midrange, bass and oooo don't forget the out of the head soundstage....Lol


----------



## Litlgi74

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> I think I will play through my speakers whilst I am also listening with my headphones....just in case I need a bit more treble, midrange, bass and oooo don't forget the out of the head soundstage....Lol


Closed minded much?

Thanks for the mockery.


----------



## Litlgi74

InstantSilence said:


> Is this before if after the TT2. Is that thing truly impressive?


Sorry... But I'm not sure I understand what you are asking.


----------



## JLoud

While I don't think the TC needs anymore bass, I will say there is something special about the physical presence of really powerful subs. If you enjoy it, go for it. Forget what everyone else thinks. Thanks for sharing an alternative solution.


----------



## JLoud

My 2 channel setup includes GoldenEar Triton Reference speakers. They can produce bass down to 12 Hz before roll off. Those are a totally different experience from headphones. Of course nothing subtle about them. Or quite.


----------



## InstantSilence

Litlgi74 said:


> Sorry... But I'm not sure I understand what you are asking.


The A16 is that installed in the chain before your tt2 or after?


----------



## Litlgi74

JLoud said:


> My 2 channel setup includes GoldenEar Triton Reference speakers. They can produce bass down to 12 Hz before roll off. Those are a totally different experience from headphones. Of course nothing subtle about them. Or quite.


Did you check out the track? The LFE is quite impressive... Especially with a sub.


----------



## paradoxper

Litlgi74 said:


> Closed minded much?
> 
> Thanks for the mockery.


Let them mock, John.

You've put a lot of work in with the Realiser format and if you want an extra sub, go for it. It's no more ridiculous than already adorning Frankenstein.


----------



## jlbrach

Litlgi74 said:


> Adding an actual sub fills in the gaps of the 1266’s missing sub bass very nicely. When listening to music, *I have the gain on the amplifier set to where the LFE of the sub is barely audible*. And because of the 1266’s open design... the sub adds just enough visceral pressure and thump to complete my headphone listening experience.


thanks for the entertainment....


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jan 9, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> The A16 is that installed in the chain before your tt2 or after?


Sorry... But I don't have a TT2.

As far as the Realiser is concerned... Other than my TCs... The A16 is the most impressive tech I've heard in audio. It can virtually reproduce a 24 channel loudspeaker set up with unbelievable accuracy. Using TCs with the A16 adds another level of WOW!

The A16 has a tactile output jack to send some of the LFE to a transducer (Woojer or Subpac) or a subwoofer. This adds to the overall visceral Dolby Atmos experience produced by the Realiser.


----------



## InstantSilence

Litlgi74 said:


> Sorry... But I don't have a TT2.
> 
> As far as the Realiser is concerned... Other than my TCs... The A16 is the most impressive tech I've heard in audio. It can virtually reproduce a 24 channel loudspeaker set up with unbelievable accuracy. Using TCs with the A16 adds another level of WOW!
> 
> The A16 has a tactile output jack to send some of the LFE to transducer (Woojer or Subpac) or a subwoofer. This adds to the overall visceral Dolby Atmos experience produced by the Realiser.


Sounds awesome! 

But in a chain of dac/amp where does this realize fit? 
Before the dac or after?


----------



## Litlgi74

InstantSilence said:


> Sounds awesome!
> 
> But in a chain of dac/amp where does this realize fit?
> Before the dac or after?


The A16 has its own DAC and amp... but you can send the digital audio to an external DAC via USB, SPDIF, or optical outs... and to an amp of your choice.

I personally use the DAC of A16... and send the analog audio to my Moon 600i then to my TCs.


----------



## InstantSilence

Oh sweet, is it strong on its own for the TC?


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jan 9, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> Oh sweet, is it strong on its own for the TC?


When set to high gain... the Realiser has enough power to drive the TCs... but I think it goes without saying... I prefer the sound quality of my 600i


----------



## BowWazoo (Jan 10, 2021)

How would you describe the sound quality differences between the Phi, CC and the TC?


----------



## vonBaron

TC have even more resolution, better bass quality, more meat midrange, slightly better soundstage.


----------



## BowWazoo

Can you compare TC with Utopia?


----------



## vonBaron

TC have way better soundstage, resolution is similar, bass way better on TC.


----------



## BowWazoo

How's the Punch on TC?


----------



## vonBaron

Best of the best!


----------



## BowWazoo

Damn...My budget is at 3000€...


----------



## vonBaron

For this money you can still buy used 1266 Phi with are still great HP.


----------



## BowWazoo

That's exactly what it comes down to, Utopia or Phi


----------



## vonBaron

Can't decide for you, both are great.
If you want better slam and punch take Phi.


----------



## Articnoise

To add sub-woofers comes at a SQ cost. The physical bass punch and rumble we can feel will create vibration that affect sensitive audio devices negatively.


----------



## BowWazoo

Does anyone have for the 1266 Phi EQ settings, to achieve the Harman curve?


----------



## Litlgi74

Articnoise said:


> To add sub-woofers comes at a SQ cost. The physical bass punch and rumble we can feel will create vibration that affect sensitive audio devices negatively.


I have experienced the complete opposite.


----------



## ken6217

Articnoise said:


> To add sub-woofers comes at a SQ cost. The physical bass punch and rumble we can feel will create vibration that affect sensitive audio devices negatively.



That’s total BS.


----------



## Articnoise

ken6217 said:


> That’s total BS.



Lol you guys are hilarious.


----------



## jjshin23

ken6217 said:


> That’s total BS.


Don’t knock it til you try it. I’ve had 3 x15” subs and 2 floor 12” speakers that rattled my turntable back in the day. Felt like I needed to feel the bass. Now I’m paying for it with tinnitus - messaged up my most sensitive device - my ears. :


----------



## Litlgi74

jjshin23 said:


> Don’t knock it til you try it. I’ve had 3 x15” subs and 2 floor 12” speakers that rattled my turntable back in the day. Felt like I needed to feel the bass. Now I’m paying for it with tinnitus - messaged up my most sensitive device - my ears. :


Guys... you are blowing this way out of proportion...  I have the gain on the amplifier set to where the LFE of the subwoofer is barely audible. It's just enough volume to overpower the output of the TCs. It just so happens that at this level... I get just a bit of the missing visceral sub-bass feeling of headphones.

Geez Louise


----------



## paradoxper

Gotta love Head-Fi: where the nervosa is only matched by the delusion and tonal deafness to boot!


----------



## Kelee123

New TC owner and Head fier here...I never thought that I would ever spend this much on a pair of headphones but found a decent deal on a gently used pair and decided to go for it. Been using it for about 10 days now and I am really enjoying the sound. However, I find that the metal frame is definitely stiffer than the usual headphone design and the leather band doesn't allow the drivers to sit low enough on my head even after I try to stretch it.  It starts to feel slightly uncomfortable after about 30-40 minutes of use. I guess I have a larger head than most! Any suggestions?


----------



## Roasty

Kelee123 said:


> New TC owner and Head fier here...I never thought that I would ever spend this much on a pair of headphones but found a decent deal on a gently used pair and decided to go for it. Been using it for about 10 days now and I am really enjoying the sound. However, I find that the metal frame is definitely stiffer than the usual headphone design and the leather band doesn't allow the drivers to sit low enough on my head even after I try to stretch it.  It starts to feel slightly uncomfortable after about 30-40 minutes of use. I guess I have a larger head than most! Any suggestions?



You can try using a larger rubber ring on the headband, if your headband allows for replacement (the newer version does).


----------



## InstantSilence

Kelee123 said:


> New TC owner and Head fier here...I never thought that I would ever spend this much on a pair of headphones but found a decent deal on a gently used pair and decided to go for it. Been using it for about 10 days now and I am really enjoying the sound. However, I find that the metal frame is definitely stiffer than the usual headphone design and the leather band doesn't allow the drivers to sit low enough on my head even after I try to stretch it.  It starts to feel slightly uncomfortable after about 30-40 minutes of use. I guess I have a larger head than most! Any suggestions?


Its all about the 0 rings. Must get slightly bigger. Cheap, get a few sizes and compare
If you have a newer band.


----------



## Kelee123

The one I got is about 7 months old. It should have the newer band. Thanks for the tip. I'll try it!


----------



## SECRET M

Speaking of bass response, how do you all typically adjust fit when you're feeling like you want more of that low frequency excursion out of the drivers.

I noticed if I gently pull the ear pads off my ears a bit, the very low end levels go up dramatically in a really nice way with certain types of music. Because I have a really big head, the only way I can seem to get this level of response is by tilting the ear cups so that they open up a tiny bit of a leak towards the front of my face and the cups are pressing behind my ears a bit.

Any tricks you've worked out over your days/weeks/months/years of using the 1266s?


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jan 11, 2021)

SECRET M said:


> Speaking of bass response, how do you all typically adjust fit when you're feeling like you want more of that low frequency excursion out of the drivers.
> 
> I noticed if I gently pull the ear pads off my ears a bit, the very low end levels go up dramatically in a really nice way with certain types of music. Because I have a really big head, the only way I can seem to get this level of response is by tilting the ear cups so that they open up a tiny bit of a leak towards the front of my face and the cups are pressing behind my ears a bit.
> 
> Any tricks you've worked out over your days/weeks/months/years of using the 1266s?


I have a big head too. I also use your strategy of tilting outward. You can then make fine adjustments as needed. I’ve had the TCs for a while, and the strategy appears to be the best (for me at least).  You eventually stop noticing or carrying about the pads touching the back of your ear.


----------



## JLoud

I rotate the ear pads. Making a small opening(port) under the ear will increase bass. Try rotating the pads one notch and see what happens. I think you'll find it does basically the same as pulling the cups out.


----------



## SECRET M

Ciggavelli said:


> I have a big head too. I also use your strategy of tilting outward. You can then make fine adjustments as needed. I’ve had the TCs for a while, and the strategy appears to be the best (for me at least).  You eventually stop noticing or carrying about the pads touching the back of your ear.



Thanks, it's nice to hear that someone else has done this as well.



JLoud said:


> I rotate the ear pads. Making a small opening(port) under the ear will increase bass. Try rotating the pads one notch and see what happens. I think you'll find it does basically the same as pulling the cups out.



Thank you, yes after I posted just moments ago, I took off the headphones and noticed that my seams were still facing up and back a little bit. I just rotated them now so the seam is pointing forward and the fattest part of the earcup is at the back of my ear. This makes it much easier on my head to get a small leak/break towards the front of my face. This has a really nice effect and allows me to tilt the cups a bit less and get beautiful response.

Also, the break-in on these headphones is 100% real. Holy cow.


----------



## vonBaron

InstantSilence said:


> Its all about the 0 rings. Must get slightly bigger. Cheap, get a few sizes and compare
> If you have a newer band.


Where i can get bigger 0 rings?


----------



## ahossam

Between WA33 and Formula S + Powerman, which one to get if you want warm and sweet sound?

Pairing with TC of course.


----------



## MatW

vonBaron said:


> Where i can get bigger 0 rings?


PM me your address and I will send you a set of various sizes. I tried a range of sizes and have some left that I won't be using.


----------



## Articnoise

paradoxper said:


> Gotta love Head-Fi: where the nervosa is only matched by the delusion and tonal deafness to boot!



Then you fit in perfectly


----------



## kamlam

Hey y’all I was wondering if I should get the lite version or if the deluxe is worth it?


----------



## ekfc63

kamlam said:


> Hey y’all I was wondering if I should get the lite version or if the deluxe is worth it?



The deluxe is worth it if you want the additional stuff it comes with.  Me?  I bought the Lite and later added the Superconductor cable. Also bought the unbranded version of the bag.


----------



## jlbrach

ahossam said:


> Between WA33 and Formula S + Powerman, which one to get if you want warm and sweet sound?
> 
> Pairing with TC of course.


if you like tubes then obviously the wa33 is the way to go but from my perspective the formula s/powerman combo has a touch of warmth that makes it a great option....as far as solid state goes I do not know how much better you can do


----------



## paradoxper

Articnoise said:


> Then you fit in perfectly


I don't.

But...

I've paid my due.


----------



## rayofsi

Just got my 16 core pure silver wire from eBay. Had to reterminate the XLR.. came with bent pins. 8ft. 16 core pure silver. $275. Going to reterminate headphone side tomororow. Hand braided. 16x .8mm.


----------



## vonBaron

1266 TC + Niimbus US4 is the best synergy i ever heard, gathering money, this will be my final amp.


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> 1266 TC + Niimbus US4 is the best synergy i ever heard, gathering money, this will be my final amp.



Excellent amp.


----------



## JLoud

vonBaron said:


> 1266 TC + Niimbus US4 is the best synergy i ever heard, gathering money, this will be my final amp.


Famous last words. I have said them myself several times. 😁


----------



## vonBaron

JLoud said:


> Famous last words. I have said them myself several times. 😁


Yes, buy i don't buy anything more pricey.


----------



## vonBaron

ken6217 said:


> Excellent amp.


Jaw dropping! But i must get back to normal because i return him tommorow.


----------



## jlbrach

ken6217 said:


> Excellent amp.


I am sure it is an excellent amp, I imagine it will be tough to beat the formula s/powerman combo though!


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> I am sure it is an excellent amp, I imagine it will be tough to beat the formula s/powerman combo though!



I'd take that bet.


----------



## jlbrach

I would gladly listen to them side by side given that as far as solid state amps go I have yet to hear one better with the abyss than the formula s combo....I certainly accept that it is possible the nimbus could be better


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> I would gladly listen to them side by side given that as far as solid state amps go I have yet to hear one better with the abyss than the formula s combo....I certainly accept that it is possible the nimbus could be better



What state are you in?


----------



## PcChip

My AB-1266 Phi TC will be here tomorrow, along with a brand new GS-X Mini DACT, anyone know if that amp pairs decently well with these headphones?  Hopefully I didn't make a mistake ordering it...


----------



## InstantSilence

PcChip said:


> My AB-1266 Phi TC will be here tomorrow, along with a brand new GS-X Mini DACT, anyone know if that amp pairs decently well with these headphones?  Hopefully I didn't make a mistake ordering it...


Supposedly it's a grest pair. Check out abyss YouTube video they have a video on this amp. 
What dac will you run?


----------



## PcChip (Jan 12, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> What dac will you run?



I'm afraid to tell you or you'll laugh...

I recently realized I much prefer the sound of my little FiiO K3 over my RME ADI-2 DAC FS, so honestly I'll be running that for a while.  

Might try an ARES II or a Chord if I see a used one come up for sale... got any recommendations?  price range $600-1500


----------



## InstantSilence

PcChip said:


> I'm afraid to tell you or you'll laugh...
> 
> I recently realized I much prefer the sound of my little FiiO K3 over my RME ADI-2 DAC FS, so honestly I'll be running that for a while.  Might try ARES II or a Chord if I see a used one come up for sale


You like what you like. 
Definitely do plug in the adi2 into the gsx just to see if the flavor changed for you


----------



## Roasty

PcChip said:


> My AB-1266 Phi TC will be here tomorrow, along with a brand new GS-X Mini DACT, anyone know if that amp pairs decently well with these headphones?  Hopefully I didn't make a mistake ordering it...



I have the TC and used to have the gsx mini. Its a nice little amp that paired well with all my headphones. You will be happy with them together. When you decide you need to upgrade something, there are definitely a few better options out there than the gsx mini. For now, just enjoy what you have!


----------



## jlbrach

ken6217 said:


> What state are you in?


have you heard the formula s/powerman out of curiousity?


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> have you heard the formula s/powerman out of curiousity?



I have but not with these headphones. 
I was going to say that if we live the same state you could bring yours by, and I could borrow the Nimbus.

I currently use a speaker amp and would never go back to a headphone amp.


----------



## PcChip

ken6217 said:


> I currently use a speaker amp



Can you share what kind of cable you're using for that?  
did you buy it or build it?


----------



## InstantSilence

ken6217 said:


> I have but not with these headphones.
> I was going to say that if we live the same state you could bring yours by, and I could borrow the Nimbus.
> 
> I currently use a speaker amp and would never go back to a headphone amp.


How do you connect the speaker amp to the TC? What amp is it? Know of any affordable ones that are transparent?


----------



## ken6217

ken6217 said:


> I have but not with these headphones.
> I was going to say that if we live the same state you could bring yours by, and I could borrow the Nimbus.
> 
> I currently use a speaker amp and would never go back to a headphone amp.



Superconducter cable. Banana plug to female XLR.


----------



## vonBaron (Jan 13, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> I would gladly listen to them side by side given that as far as solid state amps go I have yet to hear one better with the abyss than the formula s combo....I certainly accept that it is possible the nimbus could be better


Formula s combo is not overpriced? BTW i can easily buy Niimbus because it's available in my country and it have 5 year warranty.


----------



## jlbrach

I am not debating what is or isnt overpriced, only that the formula s/powerman was developed with the abyss in mind and as such to my ears is as good as I have heard up to its price range and IMHO at the going rate for the combo used it is a steal


----------



## Ciggavelli

jlbrach said:


> I am not debating what is or isnt overpriced, only that the formula s/powerman was developed with the abyss in mind and as such to my ears is as good as I have heard up to its price range and IMHO at the going rate for the combo used it is a steal


You could argue the Wells Audio Headtrip and the WA33 JPS edition were also developed with Abyss in mind. Though, I hear what you’re saying. I haven’t heard the formula s/powerman, but I’m curious.


----------



## Jeweltopia (Jan 14, 2021)

PcChip said:


> I'm afraid to tell you or you'll laugh...
> 
> I recently realized I much prefer the sound of my little FiiO K3 over my RME ADI-2 DAC FS, so honestly I'll be running that for a while.
> 
> Might try an ARES II or a Chord if I see a used one come up for sale... got any recommendations?  price range $600-1500



I have a demo unit of the Abyss 1266 Phi TC that I'm able to keep for around 10 days. I'm already day three into having them here at the house.

For giggles, I plugged the new Schiit Modi 3+ into the GS-X Mini and paired them with it, and it was disastrous. All dynamics and slam went out of the window. Created a very, very weird sound. Seeing as the FiiO K3 is also a $100 dac, don't expect it to be a good pairing. I'm not bashing the dac because I enjoy many cheap dacs with certain headphones, but the Abyss has proven to not be one of them.

I also have the RME ADI-2 FS and I found it a smidge too bright on the default settings but changing some of the digital filters around and EQing a tiny bit took the edge off the treble.

My Schiit Bifrost 2 sounds the best out of all the dacs I own. It's warmer and more full bodied and I feel as though the Abyss benefits from that. The Ares II would probably be a fantastic choice for it as well without completely breaking the bank.

I'm really enjoying my time with these and will likely buy them at some point. To put your mind at ease, I'd also like to note that I have almost zero comfort issues with the Abyss 1266. I am a girl and was worried that I had small head and dainty little neck syndrome   but actually, I have almost zero comfort issues. Weight isn't an issue but I get a slight hot spot on the top of my head from the headband. My demo unit came with the old headband and not the new and improved one. However, my old V-Moda M100s hurt the top of my head after 30 minutes of use while these don't bother me much at all. I wore these on and off for eight hours one day, taking them off to eat, rest, take a break, etc. and it was smooth sailing for the most part in comfort. My neck doesn't hurt from them either but instead feels like it's getting a decent workout and is becoming more buff in the process.


----------



## PcChip

thanks for the tips!  
I think I remember asking you last week on your reddit thread how you were liking the Empyreans and the Radiance  

I was able to listen to the 1266 TC for about 15 minutes last night, and I know first impressions sometimes don't mean much with headphones, but my first impression was that I much prefer the Meze Empyreans.  Hopefully that will change with a different DAC / Amp combo


----------



## genefruit

PcChip said:


> I was able to listen to the 1266 TC for about 15 minutes last night, and I know first impressions sometimes don't mean much with headphones, but my first impression was that I much prefer the Meze Empyreans.  Hopefully that will change with a different DAC / Amp combo


As a new Abyss owner who moved from the Empyreans, I can relate to what you've noted.  At the 50 hours of listening point, I attribute it to a number of factors that differentiate the two headphones.  The Abyss are TOTL detail retrieval headphones while as the Empyreans do have details present but their tuned to be further into the mix.  I've seen the analogy of on the stage/first row versus middle of the first section and I think it aptly applies.

I have also noticed that in order to get staging depth where I expect it to be with the Abyss, I have to give them a bit more volume than the Empyreans.  That's to be expected due to the differences in sensitivity. Otherwise they seem to be a bit two dimensional, although wider than the Empyreans.

Ultimately, give yourself some time to listen and make the call that's best for you.  Neither headphone is perfect.


----------



## Jeweltopia (Jan 14, 2021)

My biggest issue with the Abyss vs the Empyrean is that the Abyss feels like it lacks emotion. It feels a bit cold, emotionally distant, etc. I feel as though a lot of the time, when you see people crying or being extremely emotional in the Abyss promotional videos, they are maybe using some TOTL tubes (likely the Woo Audio stuff), TOTL R2R dacs, and equipment that better brings these to life.

I wish that I had the Feliks Euforia that I'm saving for because I'd have loved to run it into my GS-X Mini as a pre-amp to see if it would be a cohesive union with that tubey goodness running into it.

I made a Reddit post giving very brief impressions there about it. TLDR version is that I compared the Abyss 1266 Phi TC briefly to the Meze Empyrean and found that the Abyss is very similar to the Empyreans but is more intense at everything. More intense treble, sound stage, bass, etc. Everything is bigger. However, I feel as though I have to give mids / vocals to the Empyrean just because I feel as though the Abyss lacks it a bit on my current setup. I was VERY enamored with the Abyss over my first two days of demoing them, and the honeymoon phase was hitting me very hard there. However, now that I'm more used to them and the wow factor has settled down a bit, I can definitely tell that my system could use a better R2R dac than my Schiit Bifrost 2 and maybe some really good tubes running into my GS-X Mini as a pre-amp, since full blown balanced tube amplifiers would be a huge investment.

Ultimately, I feel as though I've seen the Empyrean scale as well on better gear than what I started it on. And no doubt the Abyss would scale even more with a better dac, some tubes, etc. and I have no doubt that it could be taken to a whole new level. But scaling the Empyrean to new heights would be cheaper and more of an easier feat than scaling the Abyss to get it to reach the emotional level with the sound that something like the Empyrean already has... if that makes sense.


----------



## ken6217

Jeweltopia said:


> My biggest issue with the Abyss vs the Empyrean is that the Abyss feels like it lacks emotion. It feels a bit cold, emotionally distant, etc. I feel as though a lot of the time, when you see people crying or being extremely emotional in the Abyss promotional videos, they are maybe using some TOTL tubes (likely the Woo Audio stuff), TOTL R2R dacs, and equipment that better brings these to life.
> 
> I wish that I had the Feliks Euforia that I'm saving for because I'd have loved to run it into my GS-X Mini as a pre-amp to see if it would be a cohesive union with that tubey goodness running into it.
> 
> ...



I had the Empyrean for almost a year and I absolutely loved it. It was the best headphone I’ve ever owned Prior to that I had the HE-1000 and the Ether Flow.

I then decided to try the 1266 TC, and it was a whole different class. I listened to it for a few months and decided to go back and listen to the Empyrean. It literally sounded dead to me in comparison. I tried it with original my headphone amp and then with the speaker amp that I was currently using with my 1266, and it sounded so flat in comparison. I listed the Empyrean for sale that night.


----------



## Jeweltopia (Jan 14, 2021)

I had that moment too when I switched back to Empyrean after using the Abyss for an entire day. It also sounded dull, lifeless, and flat in comparison.

However, I feel as though I'm lacking something in my chain with the Abyss right now. Tubes, better dac, etc. could be the issue. Abyss is doing everything better than the Empyrean except that emotional feeling that I sense tubes could breathe into it if I had them.


----------



## jlbrach (Jan 14, 2021)

PcChip said:


> thanks for the tips!
> I think I remember asking you last week on your reddit thread how you were liking the Empyreans and the Radiance
> 
> I was able to listen to the 1266 TC for about 15 minutes last night, and I know first impressions sometimes don't mean much with headphones, but my first impression was that I much prefer the Meze Empyreans.  Hopefully that will change with a different DAC / Amp combo


I owned the empyrean for a short time, I own the abyss TC and to be honest IMHO these 2 HP's are not in the same league to even make a valid comparison...the abyss is simply so much better in every category other than perhaps comfort and looks.....to me listening to the empyrean after the abyss it sounds veiled as if somebody put something over the drivers...it isnt nearly as expansive a soundstage the bass isnt in the same class and on and on....I used to own the lcd-4 which I think is a much better comparison to the empyrean...similar sound signature and it sounds about 1000 better  to me lol....which coincidentally is the price differential


----------



## PcChip

jlbrach said:


> I used to own the lcd-4 which I think is a much better comparison to the empyrean...similar sound signature and it sounds about 1000 better  to me lol....which coincidentally is the price differential



funny you mention LCD-4 , I had that for two weeks and hated it, sold it quickly. Much preferred my LCD-2 ClosedBacks


----------



## simorag (Jan 14, 2021)

Jeweltopia said:


> However, I feel as though I'm lacking something in my chain with the Abyss right now. Tubes, better dac, etc. could be the issue. Abyss is doing everything better than the Empyrean except that emotional feeling that I sense tubes could breathe into it if I had them.



Yes, I know that feeling - it has turned into a bloody expensive itch to scratch in my case .

The AB-1266, even in its latest and most perfected TC incarnation remains a bit on the cold / analytical / lean / recessed presentation signature as long as the midrange and lower treble are concerned .. which becomes more apparent in direct comparison to something which is the polar opposite like the Empyrean (or some ZMF).

To my tastes, the overall performance envelope of the Abyss is still unmatched when soundstage, imaging, detail, transparency etc. are accounted for, but for vocals in particular (even more so with less-than-ideal recordings) I agree that there are more satisfying cans out there.

The _interesting _exercise is trying to improve on midrange lushness / body / organic character without adding to much coloration or compromising the strengths of the AB-1266.

For example, I tried some warmer tube amps or even cables that, while actually providing the desired sweetness bump, were on the other hand affecting too much the speed and clarity of the Abyss.

My most successful implementations have been - in no particular order - the Superconductor cable, the addition of the M Scaler to the DAVE and the AIC-10 amplifier (especially coupled with a phenomenal NOS Mullard tube). All of them were insanely expensive, and I am not saying that most of what I have obtained cannot have been achieved with much less splurge ...

Euforia + GSX Mini and a sweet DAC (an used Metrum Pavane?) sound like a great plan ... good luck for your quest and enjoy your own journey!


----------



## ken6217

I don’t think it’s really possible for a headphone to have everything. There’s always a trade-off. I find the 1266 is on the cold side, but to make it warmer I think that you would lose some of that wide soundstage, detail, and the bass conceivably would be woollier and  not as tight.

Choosing the equipment to go along with the 1266 will give you the opportunity to tune it to your liking. It really responds well to components and cables.


----------



## InstantSilence

Anyone here use Hqplayer upsampling with their dac! It allows for further subtle tuning, very well done, with any dac,it also have 1million tap, similar to chord Hugo m scaler!


----------



## jlbrach

ken6217 said:


> I don’t think it’s really possible for a headphone to have everything. There’s always a trade-off. I find the 1266 is on the cold side, but to make it warmer I think that you would lose some of that wide soundstage, detail, and the bass conceivably would be woollier and  not as tight.
> 
> Choosing the equipment to go along with the 1266 will give you the opportunity to tune it to your liking. It really responds well to components and cables.


nothing is or will ever be perfect, we can only chase as clse to perfect as possible...also all of this is so subjective that in the end it is down to ones particular preferences...hearing ability etc...that said the abyss can be adjusted in its sound signature by manipulating the frame


----------



## kernel8888

Sounds like you all just need the Diana v2. Especially with a 1/8-3/16 vent modded in between the bottom of the pad and inside of the cup. Does wonders for soundstage and adding a bit of air


----------



## JLoud

I agree on no headphone being perfect. My solution for now is to own multiple headphones. Always chasing the do everything headphone, just not sure it will ever exist.


----------



## JLoud

I personally find the LCD4 and Abyss TC very complimentary headphones. With the Raal SR1A rounding out everything. All my bases covered that way.


----------



## olle83

JLoud said:


> I agree on no headphone being perfect. My solution for now is to own multiple headphones. Always chasing the do everything headphone, just not sure it will ever exist.


Or have couple of dac&amp setups that have different sound signatures.


----------



## jlbrach

JLoud said:


> I personally find the LCD4 and Abyss TC very complimentary headphones. With the Raal SR1A rounding out everything. All my bases covered that way.


I agree but in my case I have the abyss, the sr1a and the susvara....this being my hobby the expense is one I can rationalize


----------



## InstantSilence

Anyone ever try a Norne audio cable with the TC?


----------



## JLoud

I have the Norne Silvergarde S3 for my TC. I find it more balanced than stock. Mids are brought up a bit. The stock seems more V shaped. I switch back and forth depending on mood.


----------



## JLoud

jlbrach said:


> I agree but in my case I have the abyss, the sr1a and the susvara....this being my hobby the expense is one I can rationalize


I have debated on selling my LCD4 and buying a Susvara. However in the past I have found most Hifiman headphones a little bright for my taste. Such as the HK1 series. The Edition X, while not as resolving, is more my taste tonally. I really like the mids and bass of the LCD4. Where does the Susvara fit between the HE1000, Edition X and LCD4 tonally? I have the amp to drive the Susvara so that isn't a concern.


----------



## paradoxper

JLoud said:


> I agree on no headphone being perfect. My solution for now is to own multiple headphones. Always chasing the do everything headphone, just not sure it will ever exist.


The real solution is to endeavor in a great 2 channel system. Then headphones are just the luxury.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> The real solution is to endeavor in a great 2 channel system. Then headphones are just the luxury.



I have a great 2 ch system, but have adapted the TC to be used with it. I can make a case that the TC sounds better. As I mentioned earlier about tradeoffs, with speakers you now have to deal with the room, which actually is the biggest "component". Even with EQ, you may never be able to tune out a bad room, especially when it comes to low frequency.


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> I have a great 2 ch system, but have adapted the TC to be used with it. I can make a case that the TC sounds better. As I mentioned earlier about tradeoffs, with speakers you now have to deal with the room, which actually is the biggest "component". Even with EQ, you may never be able to tune out a bad room, especially when it comes to low frequency.


Are you swapping out speaker cables for the Abyss when you go back and forth? Or is there an easier way?


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> I have a great 2 ch system, but have adapted the TC to be used with it. I can make a case that the TC sounds better. As I mentioned earlier about tradeoffs, with speakers you now have to deal with the room, which actually is the biggest "component". Even with EQ, you may never be able to tune out a bad room, especially when it comes to low frequency.


Sure. For a large % the Susvara/TC/SR1a certainly challenge their speaker rigs. I might even argue then a bad room isn't a great system.


----------



## ken6217

tholt said:


> Are you swapping out speaker cables for the Abyss when you go back and forth? Or is there an easier way?



Yes. It's a bit of a pain bringing over the speaker cables as well as repositioning the speakers, I use the speaker set up mostly for home theater.


----------



## ekfc63

simorag said:


> Yes, I know that feeling - it has turned into a bloody expensive itch to scratch in my case .
> 
> 
> 
> My most successful implementations have been - in no particular order - the Superconductor cable, the addition of the M Scaler to the DAVE and the AIC-10 amplifier (especially coupled with a phenomenal NOS Mullard tube). All of them were insanely expensive, and I am not saying that most of what I have obtained cannot have been achieved with much less splurge ...



I agree.  The Superconductor cable really helps with the midrange warmth.


----------



## MacedonianHero

PcChip said:


> My AB-1266 Phi TC will be here tomorrow, along with a brand new GS-X Mini DACT, anyone know if that amp pairs decently well with these headphones?  Hopefully I didn't make a mistake ordering it...



Congratulations! About as good as personal audio gets! What DAC are you using?


----------



## kamlam

Just ordered my TCs and GSX-mini as well lol. I’m still undecided on a DAC. Anyone have standout recommendations? From what I’ve seen the RME ADI-2 seems to be the way to go?


----------



## Ciggavelli

kamlam said:


> Just ordered my TCs and GSX-mini as well lol. I’m still undecided on a DAC. Anyone have standout recommendations? From what I’ve seen the RME ADI-2 seems to be the way to go?


What’s your budget?  There are a lot of good dacs at various price points. If you’re matching the dac in the same price range as the GSX-mini, maybe try the Chord Qutest


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> What’s your budget?  There are a lot of good dacs at various price points. If you’re matching the dac in the same price range as the GSX-mini, maybe try the Chord Qutest



If anyone thinks the TC is cold, he better put on a down jacket with the GSX mini and the Qutest.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> If anyone thinks the TC is cold, he better put on a down jacket with the GSX mini and the Qutest.


Brrrr


----------



## InstantSilence

ken6217 said:


> If anyone thinks the TC is cold, he better put on a down jacket with the GSX mini and the Qutest.


Is the gsx mini not warm at all? 
I know Slim has tried the liquid platinum amp with modded capacitors and different tubes.
Has anyone else tried it. 
I too wish TC has thicker mids and more forward vocals. How can I achieve that,on a budget? Lol?


----------



## PcChip

InstantSilence said:


> I too wish TC has thicker mids and more forward vocals. How can I achieve that,on a budget? Lol?



how about a tiny bit of EQ in your favorite "mids" and "vocals" range?


----------



## InstantSilence

PcChip said:


> how about a tiny bit of EQ in your favorite "mids" and "vocals" range?


I try not to eq as much as I can. I'll find me an amp that will help with that


----------



## PcChip (Jan 14, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> I try not to eq as much as I can. I'll find me an amp that will help with that



weird.  out of all the headphones in my sig, I've only heard one pair of headphones that need zero EQ to sound good to me (edit: actually, two - Fostex TR-X00 Ebony and HD Zeus)

I'm sitting here tweaking the EQ to see if I'll be able to make these 1266 TC enjoyable to me right now


----------



## MaggotBrain

One unit I just picked up, and I haven’t seen it mentioned in these circles, is the Cary DMS - I have the older 500 series, but I think nowadays the newest is 700 series with R2R ladder DAC.   I picked mine up locally for $1000 so it was too good an offer to pass up, though knowing its performance I would have been happier paying many multiples more (the MSRP for the 700 series is $7995!)
It is much more than a DAC - the reason I was interested in it is it a streamer (Roon Ready) with upscaling functionality as well as a full MQA renderer for Tidal users. 

I was finding that I was not using my new TC all that much in my rec room (as I have a nice setup with Innuos Zenith SE -> Innuos Phoenix reclocker -> Chord m scaler -> Chord Dave -> ATC SCM 100 ASL (powered studio monitors), I decided to take my audio gd master 9 and pair it with the Cary DMS 500 for a double stacked desktop solution in another room and I couldn’t be more pleased.  I can honestly say the difference in sound quality of the chord setup compared to the Cary is negligible. The sound is a tad warmer and less clinical but the resolution is off by only a smidge. 

The biggest selling point in the Cary is its adaptabilty - you can use Roon, bluetooth, steam from apps on your phone via Airplay and upscale them to get results that are if not equal to Roon, at least nearly there.  I should not that I exclusively use streaming services (Tidal and Qobuz). When I am in hunter-gatherer mode I am using Tidal or Qobuz to forage for interesting new playlists that I can pick the fruits of my labor from again and again. The LCD display and the included remote are a game changer here for sampling new stuff - you can glance at the cover art and see what you are listening to without the rigamarole of logging into a locked phone and the remote allows you to skip to the next song in the playlist lickety-split. It is the best way I have come across to explore new music, and even any kind of music that is unfamiliar to you.  If I gather enough tasty morsels for a new playlist or unearth a great album, I may later switch to farm mode - by that I mean I will use Roon for stuff I have gathered in neat little rows of playlists or bounties of great albums. Sometimes I feel like trying out something new, and sometimes I may just want to hear some Rush or Petty - either way the Cary will get you there. This has been truly one of the best audio purchases I have made and would recommend this product for someone wanting the convenience of streaming paired with a great DAC with upscaling/MQA functionality.


----------



## Jeweltopia

So, after playing around with various different dacs and such, I've changed my mind about these being not full of enough emotion. I've only had these on demo for a few days and spent most of that time playing around with the RME ADI-2 FS with the GS-X Mini to get the EQ and digital filters to my liking. I spent more time letting brain burn in happen with my other dacs and am really loving them now.

I see a lot of people liking the RME ADI-2 FS with the GS-X Mini but I think I'm just generally not a huge fan of the dac in general. Once I stopped fiddling around with all of it's settings and EQ and such and just plugged a different dac into my amp, I started enjoying the listening experience much more. These are only a demo unit but they're starting to grow on me quite a lot. Brain burn in is something I always struggle with when it comes to new gear. I'll be like: "I love it!" and "On second thought, something doesn't sound right." so I start fiddling around with my gear and whatnot. I still have an entire week that I can spend with the Abyss and I'm really enjoying them now that I've found a combination I really like and am no longer confusing my brain by gear swapping and changing all sorts of things around.

If I get these, I think upgrading my dac in the future may be something to consider. I think I'm not a huge fan of the RME ADI-2 FS and honestly may just sell it to fund a dac I'd prefer more. Overall, the Abyss is the best headphone that I've ever heard, but the wrong dac or a dac that you don't like with it can make or break it. Especially if you're not used to it and your brain is so used to your other headphones, like mine is. Seeing as it's only a demo unit, it always takes me time to adjust and get used to a new piece of gear.


----------



## rayofsi

ekfc63 said:


> I agree.  The Superconductor cable really helps with the midrange warmth.


i got this $300 16 core silver cable that seems to be working wonders for my TC. Dont think i need a 2k+ superconductor now hah.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

InstantSilence said:


> I try not to eq as much as I can. I'll find me an amp that will help with that



what is your current set up now?


----------



## InstantSilence

TheMiddleSky said:


> what is your current set up now?


About to go with a mixed Liquid platinum with some tubes that focus on mid-range, I am worried I'll loose some transparency, some is *ok* but a lot would not be haha.


----------



## ekfc63

rayofsi said:


> i got this $300 16 core silver cable that seems to be working wonders for my TC. Dont think i need a 2k+ superconductor now hah.



Agree.  SC is way overpriced, but its characteristics are well known so no need for experimentation needed with other cableS that haven’t been reviewed.


----------



## MWeston

rayofsi said:


> i got this $300 16 core silver cable that seems to be working wonders for my TC. Dont think i need a 2k+ superconductor now hah.


Would you be willing to provide a link to the cable you got?  I just don't think I could justify a $2K cable in my life either.


----------



## Jon L

rayofsi said:


> i got this $300 16 core silver cable that seems to be working wonders for my TC. Dont think i need a 2k+ superconductor now hah.


Pure silver or silver-plated copper cable?  16 cores of pure silver at $300 (presumably new price) seems unrealistic...


----------



## ufospls2

Jon L said:


> Pure silver or silver-plated copper cable?  16 cores of pure silver at $300 (presumably new price) seems unrealistic...



Looks like a Lavricables. I could definitely be wrong though.


----------



## rayofsi (Jan 15, 2021)

MWeston said:


> Would you be willing to provide a link to the cable you got?  I just don't think I could justify a $2K cable in my life either.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/124158825543
more pics in this item
https://www.ebay.com/itm/124522974772

Need to contact seller. It is pure silver. I reterminated my 4pin xlr, he used a cheap one.. lol

each core is .8mm, stranded, approximately 20awg for each of the 16 wires


----------



## MWeston

rayofsi said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/124158825543
> more pics in this item
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/124522974772
> 
> ...


Hi,

Thanks for posting a link.  How do you know it is really silver?  I feel like any time I consider a cable from China, I need to borrow an X-ray fluorescence spectrometer. 

When you re-terminated it, did you do some tests on the metal?


----------



## InstantSilence

I am selling the stock TC cable if anyone, for some reason, wants it.


----------



## rayofsi

MWeston said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for posting a link.  How do you know it is really silver?  I feel like any time I consider a cable from China, I need to borrow an X-ray fluorescence spectrometer.
> 
> When you re-terminated it, did you do some tests on the metal?


I scraped the silver until I was through. No copper at all. He sells silver plated cables too.. probably $50 lol


----------



## MWeston

rayofsi said:


> I scraped the silver until I was through. No copper at all. He sells silver plated cables too.. probably $50 lol


Well that's comforting.   As long as it isn't pure Aluminum.  Ha ha!  I might have to investigate that one.


----------



## rayofsi

MWeston said:


> Well that's comforting.   As long as it isn't pure Aluminum.  Ha ha!  I might have to investigate that one.


Haha the abyss oem cable is aluminum .
But silver. Definitely not aluminum


----------



## MWeston

rayofsi said:


> Haha the abyss oem cable is aluminum .
> But silver. Definitely not aluminum


Oh right....Alumiloy...whatever secret family recipe that is!  Yikes, that's a terrible metal choice.  My home insurance won't let me upgrade my policy because my house is still wired with that stuff.


----------



## ken6217 (Jan 15, 2021)

ekfc63 said:


> Agree.  SC is way overpriced, but its characteristics are well known so no need for experimentation needed with other cableS that haven’t been reviewed.



I use that excuse too when I don't want to spend the money.


----------



## SECRET M

Is it ok to leave my DAC and amp on all the time?


----------



## olle83 (Jan 16, 2021)

SECRET M said:


> Is it ok to leave my DAC and amp on all the time?


Some people do leave their equipment always on. Saves them the trouble of warming it up to optimal temperatures. Some equipment needs it to sound their best.
Or you could just turn on your gear a little early and let it warm up an hour of so.
If you listen music multiple times a day it's perhaps better to leave equipment on, so that you aren't constantly powering them on and off again. Which could cause extra wear.
I guess they don't leave tube amps always on though, because they would degrade fast.


----------



## JLoud

Definitely don’t leave tube amps on. I do leave my DACs on all the time. Class A amps I usually turn off. They can run pretty hot and use a lot of electricity. Opamp based amps I usually leave on. They don’t use much electricity. However turning them off is ok, they warm up very fast.


----------



## Jeweltopia

Well, I was auditioning the Abyss yesterday at home. Third day out of my in home demo and the stock cable completely failed me.

Sent it back. Meh, rather disappointed. But it was a demo unit so it likely has seen a lot of use. It was one of the earcups that went silent on me. Swapped left and right connectors to confirm that it was the cable and not the driver. So at least that's good.

The place I got it from is offering me a restart on my audition time for free so that's nice. Might take them up on that. But yeah, wish I got to hear the super conductor cable, haha.


----------



## CreditingKarma

paradoxper said:


> The real solution is to endeavor in a great 2 channel system. Then headphones are just the luxury.





paradoxper said:


> The real solution is to endeavor in a great 2 channel system. Then headphones are just the luxury.



I couldn't agree more. There is one problem though the abyss sets a high standard for your speakers. I have owned the TC for  almost 2 years and it has fueled 4 speaker upgrades in that time period as well as 2 subs and picking up the Bartok. Just need to add some room treatments and a new amp to replace the hegel and I am close to done maybe one more speaker upgrade.


----------



## CreditingKarma

InstantSilence said:


> About to go with a mixed Liquid platinum with some tubes that focus on mid-range, I am worried I'll loose some transparency, some is *ok* but a lot would not be haha.


The liquid platinum does a great job with the TC especially for the price. I still have mine but the Formula S is better with the TC when yoy add the powerman it is even better.


----------



## jlbrach

yes the formula s/powerman is obviously far better but also costs what 10 times as much?...for the record I have the formula s combo and had a liquid platinum and it isnt a worthy comparison


----------



## ahossam

Any impression TC pairing with triple stack XI Audio Formula S/Powerman/Sagra?


----------



## Ragnar-BY

CreditingKarma said:


> I still have mine but the Formula S is better with the TC when yoy add the powerman it is even better.


How it compares to Primavera with TC? Trafomatic is absolutely better (which would not be a big surprise, considering the price), or Formula has its own sonic benefits?


----------



## PcChip (Jan 16, 2021)

I got my GS-X Mini today, and spent the last few hours playing with it with the 1266 TC trying to make a decision

Unfortunately, I think these headphones are not for me as I just don't like the sound signature.

I was able to EQ it to sound tolerable, but it took quite a bit of EQ which defeats the point of having such expensive headphones






Makes me sad to say that, but when I realize I'd rather reach for Empyreans, HD Zeus, or even Dekoni Blues rather than the 1266 TC then I know it's not for me 

Anyone know how the D8000's compare? maybe I'd like those instead?


----------



## JLoud

I demoed the Dekoni Blues, I can't imagine even mentioning them in the same sentence with the TC. Just goes to show everyone has different tastes.


----------



## PcChip

JLoud said:


> Just goes to show everyone has different tastes.



indeed, it's crazy


----------



## ken6217

PcChip said:


> I got my GS-X Mini today, and spent the last few hours playing with it with the 1266 TC trying to make a decision
> 
> Unfortunately, I think these headphones are not for me as I just don't like the sound signature.
> 
> ...



I haven’t been paying close attention to your posts, but is the amp broken in? Have you listened to any other amps with the 1266?

Don’t give up on the 1266 yet. Try other amps first. I know there is a lot of love for the GS Mini, but for me personally it’s not a good pairing. It’s only going to accentuate what you don’t like about the Abyss.


----------



## paradoxper

PcChip said:


> I got my GS-X Mini today, and spent the last few hours playing with it with the 1266 TC trying to make a decision
> 
> Unfortunately, I think these headphones are not for me as I just don't like the sound signature.
> 
> ...


I tried.


----------



## PcChip (Jan 16, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> I haven’t been paying close attention to your posts, but is the amp broken in? Have you listened to any other amps with the 1266?
> 
> Don’t give up on the 1266 yet. Try other amps first. I know there is a lot of love for the GS Mini, but for me personally it’s not a good pairing. It’s only going to accentuate what you don’t like about the Abyss.



about the GS-X Mini, I bought it used from another forum member here, but I don't actually believe in electronics break-in (driver break-in of course)

To be quite honest, when I have a desk full of 15+ other headphones I can reach for and be happier with, it's not worth trying to buy loads of different DACs and amps to slightly change the sound... I'm pretty sensitive to 2k-4k and this seems to be hitting hard in the 2k region for me, plus has way too much energy up above 10k.  It's just not for me


----------



## Roasty

waiting to see who will be the first to recommend @PcChip a superconductor cable...


----------



## ken6217 (Jan 16, 2021)

PcChip said:


> about the GS-X Mini, I bought it used from another forum member here, but I don't actually believe in electronics break-in (driver break-in of course)
> 
> To be quite honest, when I have a desk full of 15+ other headphones I can reach for and be happier with, it's not worth trying to buy loads of different DACs and amps to slightly change the sound... I'm pretty sensitive to 2k-4k and this seems to be hitting hard in the 2k region for me, plus has way too much energy up above 10k.  It's just not for me



Gotcha, but a lot of times it’s about synergy of equipment. The more transparent and revealing a speaker or headphone is, the more it shows shortcomings of the other equipment and recordings.


----------



## paradoxper

Roasty said:


> waiting to see who will be the first to recommend @PcChip a superconductor cable...


No, no! You didn't read the part where he rather reach for the Empyrean. A lost cause he is!!!!


----------



## genefruit

ken6217 said:


> Gotcha, but a lot of times it’s about synergy of equipment. The more transparent and revealing a speaker or headphone is, the more it shows shortcomings of the other equipment and recordings.


but is the effort all for the sake of fidelity or enjoyment?


----------



## paradoxper

genefruit said:


> but is the effort all for the sake of fidelity or enjoyment?


It's never been about fidelity nor enjoyment.

It's:
1. About whom has the biggest dick.
2. Nervosa. Nervosa. Nervosa.


----------



## InstantSilence

The man doesn't like it, it's ok. So long he enjoys something.
As someone that is sensitive to 2/4k region, especially when all I listen to is electronic, I totally understand it. He wants something not pushy, not peaky.
Then again, I don't find the TC an issue in those areas at all.
I do however find a issue in some of my crsppy recordings and lots of Tidal stuff too.
I wonder if tubes will take some of my poop recordings In the high mids/low treble region


----------



## ken6217

genefruit said:


> but is the effort all for the sake of fidelity or enjoyment?



I didn’t know that fidelity and enjoyment were mutually exclusive.


----------



## genefruit

ken6217 said:


> I didn’t know that fidelity and enjoyment were mutually exclusive.


For some it's the case and for others it's not.  Accuracy in details does not always equate musical enjoyment.


----------



## ken6217

genefruit said:


> For some it's the case and for others it's not.  Accuracy in details does not always equate musical enjoyment.



Depends. If you mean listening to Chord Hugo with Utopia headphones, then you’re right.


----------



## InstantSilence

I use music to listen to gear, how about that


----------



## jlbrach

if you think the empyrean sounds better than the 1266 TC then either you have a bum TC or I suggest you return the TC because they arent in the same league


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> if you think the empyrean sounds better than the 1266 TC then either you have a bum TC or I suggest you return the TC because they arent in the same league



I wouldn’t  agree with that, because it depends on how you like to listen to music. If you want something that sounds warm and lush and not extremely detailed, then the Empyrean  would be a better choice than the TC.


----------



## jlbrach

I suppose so but warm lush and not detailed isnt my idea of a great HP..I owned the empyrean for a couple of weeks


----------



## JLoud

I had the Empyrean for about a month. I felt it was too warm and the mid bass overpowered everything else. But if it works for you, more power to you.


----------



## JLoud

Plus you can save a bunch of money.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I’d really give the TCs another chance.  It is possible he has a bad pair of TCs. Maybe take them to an audio shop and test them out with other equipment just to make sure?

Also, maybe work on the fit a bit more by rotating the pads?


----------



## MatW

I don't understand how one could fail to be impressed with the TC upon first listen, even before break-in and on a poor setup. It is that good. So if it's not a faulty unit, it apparently does not 'click', and it's probably best to return it, keep the money and move on.


----------



## olle83

PcChip said:


> I got my GS-X Mini today, and spent the last few hours playing with it with the 1266 TC trying to make a decision
> 
> Unfortunately, I think these headphones are not for me as I just don't like the sound signature.
> 
> ...


You could try out Susvara, they shouldn't require any EQ.


----------



## Articnoise

paradoxper said:


> It's never been about fidelity nor enjoyment.
> 
> It's:
> 1. About whom has the biggest dick.
> 2. Nervosa. Nervosa. Nervosa.



I guess you speak from the hart .


----------



## PcChip

Hey all, I really didn't mean to stir up this much drama just because I don't like a pair of headphones!



			
				jlbrach said:
			
		

> I suggest you return the TC



I asked, and just found out that there's a 20% restocking fee.  So to anyone reading this thinking about buying a pair, keep that in mind before purchasing



MatW said:


> I don't understand how one could fail to be impressed with the TC upon first listen, even before break-in and on a poor setup



I will admit that maybe my setup is poor, but all of my other headphones sound great on it 

https://i.imgur.com/vrjgrOY.jpg

see that little black box in the middle with no label? that's a DIY Noir headphone amp, and I get tons of enjoyment out of it with some of my headphones, yet most people wouldn't even consider it because of what it is.  My empyreans sound wonderful on it



			
				genefruit said:
			
		

> For some it's the case and for others it's not. Accuracy in details does not always equate musical enjoyment.



Quite right! I don't care one bit about accuracy, only how big of a smile it puts on my face


----------



## vonBaron

IMO 1266 need something better than RME ADI.


----------



## alekc

vonBaron said:


> IMO 1266 need something better than RME ADI.



What would be your recommendation?


----------



## vonBaron

Sonnet Morpheus


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> Sonnet Morpheus



That’s a no brainer. I love mine!

Actually John Grandberg (Project86) has a review coming out in Darko soon of the Morpheus.


----------



## Slim1970

vonBaron said:


> Sonnet Morpheus


Still undecided on which R2R DAC I want to get. The Sonnet Morpheus, Rockna Wavelight or Holo Audio May KTE as an alternate sound to my TT2/HMS. Help me choose


----------



## vonBaron (Jan 17, 2021)

I want to hear Wavelight someday, but now im in love with my Morpheus.


----------



## ken6217

Slim1970 said:


> Still undecided on which R2R DAC I want to get. The Sonnet Morpheus, Rockna Wavelight or Holo Audio May KTE as an alternate sound to my TT2/HMS. Help me choose



I can’t help you choose as I ever heard the other DAC’s, but previous to owning the Morpheus I had the Metrum Pavane Level III, dCS Debussy, and Berkeley Audio Alpha DAC, and  the Morpheus beats them all.


----------



## Slim1970

ken6217 said:


> I can’t help you choose as I ever heard the other DAC’s, but previous to owning the Morpheus I had the Metrum Pavane Level III, dCS Debussy, and Berkeley Audio Alpha DAC, and  the Morpheus beats them all.


Wow, thats really saying something!


----------



## vonBaron

Morp


ken6217 said:


> I can’t help you choose as I ever heard the other DAC’s, but previous to owning the Morpheus I had the Metrum Pavane Level III, dCS Debussy, and Berkeley Audio Alpha DAC, and  the Morpheus beats them all.


Morpheus better than dCS Debussy? That quite achievement.


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> Morp
> 
> Morpheus better than dCS Debussy? That quite achievement.



As much detail but smoother. Bass is amazing BTW.


----------



## justonwo

I've had my AB-1266 Phi TC for about a year now. Fantastic sound. I have had an issue with some rattling at certain bass frequencies, however. An issue I don't have with my Stellia or Utopias. They're actually at Abyss now getting looked over. Have any of you guys had an issue with rattling? On my headphones, it's only in the left speaker so I have a feeling it's not an overall limitation of the headphone. I'm running them through a Hugo 2 TT/M Scaler through a WA33 Elite.


----------



## MatW

justonwo said:


> I've had my AB-1266 Phi TC for about a year now. Fantastic sound. I have had an issue with some rattling at certain bass frequencies, however. An issue I don't have with my Stellia or Utopias. They're actually at Abyss now getting looked over. Have any of you guys had an issue with rattling? On my headphones, it's only in the left speaker so I have a feeling it's not an overall limitation of the headphone. I'm running them through a Hugo 2 TT/M Scaler through a WA33 Elite.



I did at some point. A weird rattle on the right side was apparent at low frequencies (Hans Zimmer / Why so serious). It turned out to be a hair stuck between the pad and the driver!  

But I guess your issue is a little more serious than this. I am sure they will sort it out at Abyss, and I hope that you will get it back soon!


----------



## vonBaron

This is what im worries about, drivers have almost 0 protection.


----------



## lockjaw

I recently sold my TC and went with the Susvara. (running a Benchmark HPA4 amp)

Having lived with the HifiMan flagship, I have to admit the 1266 is a better sounding headphone.  Deeper bass with more slam, a better space.  Susvara are smoother sounding with no fatigue.  At times both my TC and D-Phi were a little fatiguing.  All three headphones are more similar than different and far better than other can's I've owned (Utopia, 007s, LCD3).  Utopias have zero stage, 007s sound thin, LCD3 are dark (and heavy).

I'm selling my Forza TC cable if anyone is interested.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...able-for-abyss-1266-noir-hybrid-hpc-2-meters/

I've kept my Abyss headphone stand, just so I can say I'm still a member of the Abyss family.

Steve


----------



## FLTWS

MatW said:


> I did at some point. A weird rattle on the right side was apparent at low frequencies (Hans Zimmer / Why so serious). It turned out to be a hair stuck between the pad and the driver!



Had that happen to me once, a strong little LED flashlight and a pair of tweezers fixed it.


----------



## kamlam

lockjaw said:


> I recently sold my TC and went with the Susvara. (running a Benchmark HPA4 amp)
> 
> Having lived with the HifiMan flagship, I have to admit the 1266 is a better sounding headphone.  Deeper bass with more slam, a better space.  Susvara are smoother sounding with no fatigue.  At times both my TC and D-Phi were a little fatiguing.  All three headphones are more similar than different and far better than other can's I've owned (Utopia, 007s, LCD3).  Utopias have zero stage, 007s sound thin, LCD3 are dark (and heavy).
> 
> ...


I wish I could buy the Abyss stand and bag separately. The aesthetic is so cool.


----------



## ra990

justonwo said:


> I've had my AB-1266 Phi TC for about a year now. Fantastic sound. I have had an issue with some rattling at certain bass frequencies, however. An issue I don't have with my Stellia or Utopias. They're actually at Abyss now getting looked over. Have any of you guys had an issue with rattling? On my headphones, it's only in the left speaker so I have a feeling it's not an overall limitation of the headphone. I'm running them through a Hugo 2 TT/M Scaler through a WA33 Elite.


Yes! I was plagued by the left channel rattle on a couple of units. They are good about replacing them as long as they are able to recreate it.


----------



## Litlgi74

lockjaw said:


> I recently sold my TC and went with the Susvara. (running a Benchmark HPA4 amp)
> 
> Having lived with the HifiMan flagship, I have to admit the 1266 is a better sounding headphone.  Deeper bass with more slam, a better space.  Susvara are smoother sounding with no fatigue.  At times both my TC and D-Phi were a little fatiguing.  All three headphones are more similar than different and far better than other can's I've owned (Utopia, 007s, LCD3).  Utopias have zero stage, 007s sound thin, LCD3 are dark (and heavy).
> 
> ...


You’ll be back.


----------



## jlbrach

yes, it is darn near impossible to part with the TC


----------



## simorag

To whom may be interested ...

*Clash of the Titans – my Take on Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC vs. HIFIMAN Susvara* 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/post-16112974


----------



## zenlisten

simorag said:


> To whom may be interested ...
> *Clash of the Titans – my Take on Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC vs. HIFIMAN Susvara*
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/post-16112974



Very interesting review, thanks for sharing! I can recognize myself in your description ("musically very curious", "listening time is taken by a very eclectic genres exploration"), and also the "roller coaster" TC experience (which I love). Now interested to listen to the Susvara again, so far I could only hear it at my dealer under sub-optimal circumstances (connected directly to a non-MScaled Dave).


----------



## Fafner

simorag said:


> To whom may be interested ...
> 
> *Clash of the Titans – my Take on Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC vs. HIFIMAN Susvara*
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/post-16112974




Great comparison! It would be great to have some Raal comparison as well. 😀


----------



## Bonddam

I tired the Susvara and my TC couldn't be replaced for what seems like extreme power in the lower registers. It's like a normal theater against IMAX.


----------



## InstantSilence

Just curious, cant afford for a long time. But what is the best OTL amp for abyss TC (you know, as far as ability to power properly) for under 2.5k


----------



## attmci

jlbrach said:


> yes, it is darn near impossible to part with the TC


A new 1266 will come soon.


----------



## vonBaron

What? TC was to be last version...


----------



## attmci

InstantSilence said:


> Just curious, cant afford for a long time. But what is the best OTL amp for abyss TC (you know, as far as ability to power properly) for under 2.5k


I don't think that's a good match, my friend.


----------



## Litlgi74

attmci said:


> A new 1266 will come soon.


Not likely... Closed back Diana first...unless you have heard otherwise?


----------



## Trance_Gott

attmci said:


> A new 1266 will come soon.


Where are this info from? Is it a joke?


----------



## InstantSilence

Trance_Gott said:


> Where are this info from? Is it a joke?


Its a closed back. YouTube abyss channel sort of said.


----------



## Trance_Gott

InstantSilence said:


> Its a closed back. YouTube abyss channel sort of said.


I thought closed back Diana and not 1266?


----------



## vonBaron

It better be closed back!


----------



## Ciggavelli

Closed backed 1266 makes no sense given how you wear them loose. I’m all for a closed back Diana though. Hopefully it measures well.  



Spoiler



I kid


----------



## Bonddam

If they do a 1266 it would be a long time.


----------



## InstantSilence

Trance_Gott said:


> I thought closed back Diana and not 1266?


I meant Diana yes.


----------



## Trance_Gott

attmci said:


> A new 1266 will come soon.


Not 1266 you meant Diana closed back.


----------



## InstantSilence

Other than the beloved Super Conductor. 
What other aftermarket cables have you guys tried for the TC?


----------



## JLoud

I have a Norne Audio Silvergarde cable. Very neutral sounding cable. Haven't heard the SC but compared to stock cable the Norne balances out the frequency response. I enjoy both stock and the Norne.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jan 18, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> Other than the beloved Super Conductor.
> What other aftermarket cables have you guys tried for the TC?


I tried a Cardas Clear cable. It’s good with my Susvaras, but not so much with the TCs. I feel that the SC cable is much better. I know a few people tried the Danacables Nirvana, which they seem to like. It’s a $3.5K cable though


----------



## llamaluv

Bonddam said:


> I tired the Susvara and my TC couldn't be replaced for what seems like extreme power in the lower registers. It's like a normal theater against IMAX.


I like this analogy, for all the pluses and minuses that IMAX has compared to a regular theater experience. It kind of works...


----------



## qboogie

simorag said:


> *Re: Abyss Phi cable upgrade (part 2, including the Superconductor HP – part 1 here)*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I went through all of Simorag's head to head comparisons (relating to Abyss gear) and I can't thank him enough for his hard work and articulate write ups. So very helpful. This shootout between the superconductor cable vs prion4 vs stock reassured me to buy the SC cable and ask for forgiveness later.


----------



## JonathanKlein

Ciggavelli said:


> I tried a Cardas Clear cable. It’s good with my Susvaras, but not so much with the TCs. I feel that the SC cable is much better. I know a few people tried the Danacables Nirvana, which they seem to like. It’s a $3.5K cable though



+1 for the Nirvana


----------



## vonBaron

InstantSilence said:


> Other than the beloved Super Conductor.
> What other aftermarket cables have you guys tried for the TC?


Dabacables Lazuli Ultra, better than stock for sure.


----------



## FLTWS

JonathanKlein said:


> +1 for the Nirvana



I agree, but it is a seriously heavy cable to work with.


----------



## FLTWS

vonBaron said:


> Dabacables Lazuli Ultra, better than stock for sure.



Yes it is and a good bit more easy to work with weight and flex wise than Nirvana. I think I've owned every Dana Cable model for the 1266 at some point. Owned the Superconductor as well.


----------



## Jeweltopia

PcChip said:


> Hey all, I really didn't mean to stir up this much drama just because I don't like a pair of headphones!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In fairness, I tried the RME ADI-2 FS with the GS-X Mini + Abyss 1266 Phi TC and that dac sounded terrible with them.

TERRIBLE. In my opinion. 

I sold my RME ADI-2 FS that day because when I did A/B testing with it and the $200 Schiit Modius, I favored the Modius. So...

That being said, I'm now getting an R2R dac to have alongside my Bifrost 2 and Modius. 

Maybe Abyss just isn't for you, but as someone who has tried the RME ADI-2 FS with those headphones, I can wholeheartedly say that it's just not a good union. At all.


----------



## makan

Jeweltopia said:


> In fairness, I tried the RME ADI-2 FS with the GS-X Mini + Abyss 1266 Phi TC and that dac sounded terrible with them.
> 
> TERRIBLE. In my opinion.
> 
> ...


Interesting.  I have the RME ADI-2 Pro..same family as ADI-2 DAC and I find it works just fine...perhaps ignorance is bliss on my end and as a disclaimer, I don't appreciate great differences between DACs in general


----------



## Hoegaardener70

makan said:


> Interesting.  I have the RME ADI-2 Pro..same family as ADI-2 DAC and I find it works just fine...perhaps ignorance is bliss on my end and as a disclaimer, I don't appreciate great differences between DACs in general



This. I once hooked up via various ways three Dacs to the same amp  so that we could switch on the fly. Differences where there, but rather minimal. For sure not so much to say that a wrong pairing would be terrible.


----------



## Jeweltopia

I did blind tests with the help of significant other so I guess I'm just not a fan of that dac. In fairness, my opinions are subjective but all I'm saying is that this may me why he doesn't like the pairing.


----------



## PcChip (Jan 19, 2021)

Jeweltopia said:


> Maybe Abyss just isn't for you, but as someone who has tried the RME ADI-2 FS with those headphones, I can wholeheartedly say that it's just not a good union. At all.



That may be very true - and I actually just ordered an ARES II last night so I'll try it out, but I honestly think my sound preferences are not in line with what most people consider "good"

as an example, the best frequency response tuning I've ever heard in a headphone is the Ultrasone HFI-580, it's the benchmark that I compare all other headphones to - yet DMS just released a video yesterday about how absolutely terrible they are.  This is why I much prefer the Empyreans over the 1266 TC, because of the sound signature.  I prefer recessed mids, with a dark warm lush sound - which the 1266 are absolutely not


----------



## InstantSilence

PcChip said:


> That may be very true - and I actually just ordered an ARES II last night so I'll try it out, but I honestly think my sound preferences are not in line with what most people consider "good"
> 
> as an example, the best frequency response tuning I've ever heard in a headphone is the Ultrasone HFI-580, it's the benchmark that I compare all other headphones to - yet DMS just released a video yesterday about how absolutely terrible they are.  This is why I much prefer the Empyreans over the 1266 TC, because of the sound signature.  I prefer recessed mids, with a dark warm lush sound - which the 1266 are absolutely not


Totally fine of course. 
It will help reading reviews in depth from many sources as general sound signature would be explained, that way you save on the selling/buying/reselling mess.


----------



## InstantSilence

Weird question. Just wanna try something. 
Is there such an adapter that can rca out to a female 4pin xlr. 
In scope I'd like to just try 
DAC to Loki to TC


----------



## Ciggavelli

InstantSilence said:


> Weird question. Just wanna try something.
> Is there such an adapter that can rca out to a female 4pin xlr.
> In scope I'd like to just try
> DAC to Loki to TC


You can go XLR to RCA, but not RCA to XLR


----------



## InstantSilence

Ciggavelli said:


> You can go XLR to RCA, but not RCA to XLR


How about dual rca to quarter inch female?


----------



## Ciggavelli

InstantSilence said:


> How about dual rca to quarter inch female?


Yup.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-RiqF4...MKkrhl3nP_GjNzpDwjBNQ3AII17UOgVxoC10QQAvD_BwE

I’m not recommending that cable (I know nothing about it), just showing what’s out there. You can then get a 3.5 to 6.35 adapter.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jan 19, 2021)

Edit:  Wrong link. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-rca-female-to-2-male-splitter-black/6404909.p?skuId=6404909

Or maybe you mean this?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/woCharger-...-/292555198131?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292


----------



## InstantSilence

Ciggavelli said:


> Edit:  Wrong link. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-rca-female-to-2-male-splitter-black/6404909.p?skuId=6404909


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K7C1MSF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_5.2bGbEES96R4


I'm just goofing off with it. You think this will work? 
And most importantly, is it safe for the TC to be doing this out of thr Loki?


----------



## Ciggavelli

InstantSilence said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K7C1MSF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_5.2bGbEES96R4
> 
> 
> I'm just goofing off with it. You think this will work?
> And most importantly, is it safe for the TC to be doing this out of thr Loki?


It should. I don’t think you’ll have an issue. Going XLR to RCA sometimes adds unwanted feedback.  I think it’s safe, but I’m not 100% sure. Maybe others can chime in.


----------



## kamlam

People are going off on Abyss in the headphone subreddit. I can’t speak to the issues with production but from what I’ve seen on here and from major reviewers the AB-1266 are fantastic headphones. I struggle to believe that every reviewer was paid off or was heavily influenced from the high price meaning the headphones should sound good. I’ll be trying these myself soon so my opinion hasn’t formed yet but it seems that almost everyone who hasn’t heard them seems to have a strong opinion.


----------



## InstantSilence

kamlam said:


> People are going off on Abyss in the headphone subreddit. I can’t speak to the issues with production but from what I’ve seen on here and from major reviewers the AB-1266 are fantastic headphones. I struggle to believe that every reviewer was paid off or was heavily influenced from the high price meaning the headphones should sound good. I’ll be trying these myself soon so my opinion hasn’t formed yet but it seems that almost everyone who hasn’t heard them seems to have a strong opinion.


Idk what they saying but I bet it's a bunch of folks with 600s and 650 and schiit gear that can't afford a TC.
Nothing wrong with the above gear BTW.


----------



## kamlam

InstantSilence said:


> Idk what they saying but I bet it's a bunch of folks with 600s and 650 and schiit gear that can't afford a TC.
> Nothing wrong with the above gear BTW.


Yeah that’s what I was thinking. I mean sure sound is subjective but when an overwhelming consensus of experienced audiophiles say they’re great I’m pretty sure they’re great.


----------



## paradoxper

kamlam said:


> People are going off on Abyss in the headphone subreddit. I can’t speak to the issues with production but from what I’ve seen on here and from major reviewers the AB-1266 are fantastic headphones. I struggle to believe that every reviewer was paid off or was heavily influenced from the high price meaning the headphones should sound good. I’ll be trying these myself soon so my opinion hasn’t formed yet but it seems that almost everyone who hasn’t heard them seems to have a strong opinion.


Well, the _abyss stares back.  _

I love Steve Eddy and he definitely had _a discovery of overpriced, overripe cables._


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Jan 19, 2021)

kamlam said:


> People are going off on Abyss in the headphone subreddit. I can’t speak to the issues with production but from what I’ve seen on here and from major reviewers the AB-1266 are fantastic headphones. I struggle to believe that every reviewer was paid off or was heavily influenced from the high price meaning the headphones should sound good. I’ll be trying these myself soon so my opinion hasn’t formed yet but it seems that almost everyone who hasn’t heard them seems to have a strong opinion.



I cannot stand DMS and his dismissive attitude towards valid customer requests!


----------



## Ciggavelli

The Diana thread is wild if you haven’t seen it yet. I have to admit, I’m not sure Abyss handled it well. I love my TCs, and I couldn’t care less if they measured well or not. I’m not a “measurement moron.”  But, others are.

I think Abyss needs to hire an official PR person who can better handle situations like what we’re seeing with the Diana measurements.


----------



## InstantSilence

Ciggavelli said:


> The Diana thread is wild if you haven’t seen it yet. I have to admit, I’m not sure Abyss handled it well. I love my TCs, and I couldn’t care less if they measured well or not. I’m not a “measurement moron.”  But, others are.
> 
> I think Abyss needs to hire an official PR person who can better handle situations like what we’re seeing with the Diana measurements.


Yeah, agreed. Get a PR! 
What was the issue? I guess I've been under a rock, enjoying TC and not much else?


----------



## ra990 (Jan 19, 2021)

I think Abyss just needs to ignore this recent drama. 90% of the people commenting on it haven't heard the headphones and never had any intention of buying them. There's probably a small segment of people who consider purchasing these headphones and I'm sure they are going to rely more on feedback from people experienced with them, like from this thread, than people who think some $20 headphones sound better than Abyss. The Abyss measurements could end up looking like a X-mas tree for all I care, it was still one of the best, if not the best, headphone I've ever heard and a unique experience amongst them. Yes, their cable prices are atrocious, but that's the audiophile cable market. The headphones? I think you get to charge a premium for a unique experience and the people who want them and can afford them, will pay for them.


----------



## Ciggavelli

InstantSilence said:


> Yeah, agreed. Get a PR!
> What was the issue? I guess I've been under a rock, enjoying TC and not much else?


The Audio Science Review guy measured the Diana V2s and he found them to not measure well at all. Then we’re just getting back and forth with the methodology, and sprinkling in some personal attacks.


----------



## InstantSilence

Ciggavelli said:


> The Audio Science Review guy measured the Diana V2s and he found them to not measure well at all. Then we’re just getting back and forth with the methodology, and sprinkling in some personal attacks.


My ears don't measure... They enjoy. 
I skip over measuments in any review I read.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

InstantSilence said:


> Yeah, agreed. Get a PR!
> What was the issue? I guess I've been under a rock, enjoying TC and not much else?



Besides a PR person who treats clients with respect (which, really, is not that much to ask, right DMS?), I must say that certain issues of the client-company relationship could be improved - 3 years warranty out of the box and not 1 year and some additional procedures (about which nobody told me, so I did not get the extended warranty), fairly priced accessories (200 for a headband, 400 for pads, really?) etc are really necessary for a summit-price company. I like my TC a lot, but I would more openly advocate for it with friends if these issues are improved.


----------



## Ciggavelli

InstantSilence said:


> My ears don't measure... They enjoy.
> I skip over measuments in any review I read.


Agreed. I’m a big Audiobacon fan. The owner, Jay, handles these things a bit better, and I believe he’s an engineer for his day job.

Basically, you can’t measure everything, and you can’t measure everything correctly. Way too many people look at the measurements instead of personal experience with the item.

I think Chord kinda messed up here as well, related to the Bartok and DAVE a few months ago


----------



## InstantSilence

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Besides a PR person who treats clients with respect (which, really, is not that much to ask, right DMS?), I must say that certain issues of the client-company relationship could be improved - 3 years warranty out of the box and not 1 year and some additional procedures (about which nobody told me, so I did not get the extended warranty), fairly priced accessories (200 for a headband, 400 for pads, really?) etc are really necessary for a summit-price company. I like my TC a lot, but I would more openly advocate for it with friends if these issues are improved.


Prices of the pads really is... Can't find a better word..... Rape!


----------



## Ciggavelli

InstantSilence said:


> Prices of the pads really is... Can't find a better word..... Rape!


They are expensive, but the TCs are luxury items, so it is just the cost of doing business. If you buy a super high-end sports car, you have to pay $10K for new tires. I see the TC pads the same way.

The warranty thing is pretty schiity though. I didn’t know about the 3 year stuff at all. The TCs should have given everybody 3 years.


----------



## attmci

Ciggavelli said:


> The Audio Science Review guy measured the Diana V2s and he found them to not measure well at all. Then we’re just getting back and forth with the methodology, and sprinkling in some personal attacks.


Forget about that guy.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sound-science-of-dac.915665/


----------



## ken6217

FLTWS said:


> I agree, but it is a seriously heavy cable to work with.





InstantSilence said:


> My ears don't measure... They enjoy.
> I skip over measuments in any review I read.



I find that most components that measure very good, also don't sound very good. They end up sounding clinical and analytical, and not musical. 

Btw, how do tube amps measure? Lousy, but they sound good.


----------



## jlbrach

basically if you want to feel good about inexpensive equipment and talk yourself out of purchasing costly TOTL equipment go to the website and read this guys reviews....who cares?


----------



## Bonddam

I use to be an Abyss hater. Said I’d never buy one. Then some instability in my mind forced the credit card out of my wallet and that’s all folks.


----------



## Roasty

the TC Phi sounds amazing out of the Milo Reference..! So much power. Extremely tight punchy bass. Mids a little bit thinner than wa33. Highs just as smooth, with lots of detail. Can still make out that the Milo has an SS amp flavour after listening with the wa33. It is, however, far from sterile or boring. 

I find that it pairs better with my own system (innuos phoenix/su6/rockna) over a loaner chord dave/mscaler. I hear some glare/grittiness with the chord items (I guess for various reasons). 

The Milo Reference is a really good contender if you're looking for an SS amp. I would place it above the gsx-mini and hpa4 for sure (the only two SS amps I've had recently).


----------



## vonBaron

Ciggavelli said:


> The Audio Science Review guy measured the Diana V2s and he found them to not measure well at all. Then we’re just getting back and forth with the methodology, and sprinkling in some personal attacks.


This site is a trash, if something doesn't measure well is bad for them, i think they don't even listen what they measure.


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> This site is a trash, if something doesn't measure well is bad for them, i think they don't even listen what they measure.



Not only that, they say if it can’t be measured then you can’t hear a difference. So this means that different cables, be it interconnects, headphone cables, power cables, isolation feet, fuses, etc, etc. all sound the same. Not taking into account that the type of wire and how the cable is constructed definitely affects soundstage, imaging, etc.

I never look at the site anymore. A bunch of condescending obnoxious A Holes. The same with super best audio friends (SBAF).


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ken6217 said:


> Not only that, they say if it can’t be measured then you can’t hear a difference. So this means that different cables, be it interconnects, headphone cables, power cables, isolation feet, fuses, etc, etc. all sound the same. Not taking into account that the type of wire and how the cable is constructed definitely affects soundstage, imaging, etc.



In a way it is a counterreaction to the excessive marketing on the other side. No interconnect or headphone cable will ever "make you think it is another headphone". It is a flavor at best or a minor bottleneck at worst, nothing more. I am tired of both excessive marketing and complete dismissal.


----------



## ken6217 (Jan 20, 2021)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> In a way it is a counterreaction to the excessive marketing on the other side. No interconnect or headphone cable will ever "make you think it is another headphone". It is a flavor at best or a minor bottleneck at worst, nothing more. I am tired of both excessive marketing and complete dismissal.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> it depends on what cables you’ve been listening to. In my systems the differences have been pretty dramatic.
> ...


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Jan 20, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> However if you think that cables only make a minor difference, then go to Home Depot and buy some lamp cord, and run that from your amp to your speakers and see how good it sounds. Wire is wire. Right?



I said stay in the middle. Futile discussion  ... each to their own.


----------



## ken6217

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I said stay in the middle. Futile discussion  ... each to their own.



Thats for sure. It’s kind of like on my motorcycle forums where people debate which is the best synthetic motor oil.


----------



## InstantSilence

Some comment on headfi, FB group, said that some 1266 TC users have experienced wrinkles in the diaprham? Has anyone here heard about that or seen it. Or it is *fake news*?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

InstantSilence said:


> Some comment on headfi, FB group, said that some 1266 TC users have experienced wrinkles in the diaprham? Has anyone here heard about that or seen it. Or it is *fake news*?



It is not fake news, but it is the original ab-1266 and not a TC. DMS (Abyss social media guy) wrote rather relaxed that the current drivers do not look like this anymore. He seems to have forgotten that these were a couple of years earlier "the best", so I found the comment rather concerning. 
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones.../?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3


----------



## Hoegaardener70

InstantSilence said:


> Some comment on headfi, FB group, said that some 1266 TC users have experienced wrinkles in the diaprham? Has anyone here heard about that or seen it. Or it is *fake news*?




So, they guy just opened up the driver of the tc 10 minutes ago. He says the headphone is just some days old. 

This is how it looks: https://imgur.com/gallery/uumLw7W


----------



## tholt

Hoegaardener70 said:


> So, they guy just opened up the driver of the tc 10 minutes ago. He says the headphone is just some days old.
> 
> This is how it looks: https://imgur.com/gallery/uumLw7W


----------



## rmsanger

vonBaron said:


> This site is a trash, if something doesn't measure well is bad for them, i think they don't even listen what they measure.



I agree they literally crap all over every single hifi component that I own that brings me joy.   Abyss, Focal Clear, Maggie LRS for them all measure like crap well by my ears they are a thing of beauty and that's the only measurement that is meaningful to me.

By nature I am an objective data driven guy but there is always more to a product than the measurable.  Quite possibly Amir has not measured the products correctly or used a nonstandard rig or fits the frequency responses to non standard target curves.  

At ASR it's all about Sinad + THD = SQ.   If you minimize both then you have perfected SQ so the A90 and SP400 should be the greatest devices in the history of headfi.   To my ears A90 was not that great it was good for the $ but in absolutes.


----------



## vonBaron

Hoegaardener70 said:


> So, they guy just opened up the driver of the tc 10 minutes ago. He says the headphone is just some days old.
> 
> This is how it looks: https://imgur.com/gallery/uumLw7W


It looks bad or what?


----------



## jlbrach (Jan 21, 2021)

rmsanger said:


> I agree they literally crap all over every single hifi component that I own that brings me joy.   Abyss, Focal Clear, Maggie LRS for them all measure like crap well by my ears they are a thing of beauty and that's the only measurement that is meaningful to me.
> 
> By nature I am an objective data driven guy but there is always more to a product than the measurable.  Quite possibly Amir has not measured the products correctly or used a nonstandard rig or fits the frequency responses to non standard target curves.
> 
> At ASR it's all about Sinad + THD = SQ.   If you minimize both then you have perfected SQ so the A90 and SP400 should be the greatest devices in the history of headfi.   To my ears A90 was not that great it was good for the $ but in absolutes.


you have to remember if you start out with the belief that all TOTL products are overpriced and try to review products based on relative value I can promise you all 500 dollar products will prove to be better values on a strict dollar accounting because obviously the law of diminishing returns sets in...a mcdonald's burger is likely a better deal than a 70 dollar steak and a 15 dollar bottle of wine better value than a 200 dollar bottle but that aint how life works...these products should be reviewed on their own terms as TOTL equipment not as to whether or not the 5K product is on a linear basis better than the 500 dollar one...the whole discussion is silly...I own both the topping A90 for certain situations and far more expensive amps and the more expensive gear is dramatically better.....10X better, perhaps not...again, who cares?The reason I dont take this stuff seriously is that it is obvious to aim of the reviews is to tear down expensive gear...


----------



## Jon L

Hoegaardener70 said:


> So, they guy just opened up the driver of the tc 10 minutes ago. He says the headphone is just some days old.
> 
> This is how it looks: https://imgur.com/gallery/uumLw7W



Hmm.  As a 1266 TC owner, I would be interested in an official response from JPS Labs.




TCdriver by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## rmsanger (Jan 21, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> you have to remember if you start out with the belief that all TOTL products are overpriced and try to review products based on relative value I can promise you all 500 dollar products will prove to be better values on a strict dollar accounting because obviously the law of diminishing returns sets in...a mcdonald's burger is likely a better deal than a 70 dollar steak and a 15 dollar bottle of wine better value than a 200 dollar bottle but that aint how life works...these products should be reviewed on their own terms as TOTL equipment not as to whether or not the 5K product is on a linear basis better than the 500 dollar one...the whole discussion is silly...I own both the topping A90 for certain situations and far more expensive amps and the more expensive gear is dramatically better.....10X better, perhaps not...again, who cares?


I agree the A90 is fine for $400.  I also understand that the curve of $ spend to % improvement in hifi is log and not linear.

The problem is they view their key metrics in absolutes regardless of price.   For them an A90 > Moon 430 because it will have lower THD and a higher Sinad score. Both metrics for the A90 are beyond the perceptible range of human hearing so why buy anything else.   Anyone trying to claim something else about Moon is snake-oil and pure fictional poetry. That is the framework through which they view the industry.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Jon L said:


> Hmm.  As a 1266 TC owner, I would be interested in an official response from JPS Labs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don’t understand what’s wrong with the picture. But, I’m assuming Abyss’ response will be less than ideal. Probably will do an attack on drjlo2 or pull an Apple and say he’s listening to it wrong 

I’m just joking, but also kinda not


----------



## Jon L

Ciggavelli said:


> I don’t understand what’s wrong with the picture. But, I’m assuming Abyss’ response will be less than ideal. Probably will do an attack on drjlo2



I hope not because drjlo2 is my flickr which I'm using to share the photo from OP 

The TC driver in this photo does have some wrinkles around the edges, which seem much less than the wrinkles from OG 1266 driver in the original Reddit thread.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> I don’t understand what’s wrong with the picture. But, I’m assuming Abyss’ response will be less than ideal. Probably will do an attack on drjlo2 or pull an Apple and say he’s listening to it wrong
> 
> I’m just joking, but also kinda not


It has to do with the tensioning and the crinkles of the driver. This is interesting. Likely to find the same with, eh, many planar drivers regardless.

I'm less interested in hearing from Joe or JPS considering more-hostile PR BS. 
I, however, would be very interested in hearing from Eric whom is a solid engineer and can articulate his point rather saliently.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

tholt said:


>



LOL, yes that's what I thought too.


----------



## Roasty

I had the Empyrean and after a while I had that crinkle sound when putting on/off the headphones. No detriment to the sound though. In fact I thought the empy sounded even better after it started crinkling lol


----------



## paradoxper

Roasty said:


> I had the Empyrean and after a while I had that crinkle sound when putting on/off the headphones. No detriment to the sound though. In fact I thought the empy sounded even better after it started crinkling lol


That's 'driver flex' caused by a change in seal. Some IEMs exhibit this behavior as well.
And, for fun, with STAX, this is affectionately known as the "STAX fart."


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Jan 21, 2021)

That's a TC driver. Looks normal. What's the issue?
The black area underneath is aluminum, the diaphragm material is adhered  to it in that area.

I should mention that inspecting the 1266 from the baffle side is something we don't even do. The odds of damaging the driver is quite high even with proper tooling and experience. It's VERY thin material, and the magnet has a strong affinity for anything steel. Seeing a Husky screwdriver nearby, you have to be stupid lucky not to ruin the driver. The torque on the baffle screws will be incorrect and uneven on that channel.


----------



## ken6217 (Jan 21, 2021)

It looks like the O-ring complainers have moved to another part of the headphone. In another year it will be the packing and the box.


----------



## JLoud

I like tubes, so that shows where I stand as far as measurements go. I also really like my TC, and don't like people who criticize something just because of cost.


----------



## InstantSilence

I'm just nitpicking and being annoying now... But I wish that little red cable was at least a jps labs little cable, instead it appears to be similar to my grandpa's first electronic watch. 
With that said. I love my TC, even if the diaprham looked like an old leather couch.


----------



## JLoud

If Abyss installed it, wouldn't it be JPS? I'm just being obnoxious.


----------



## InstantSilence

JLoud said:


> If Abyss installed it, wouldn't it be JPS? I'm just being obnoxious.


At least you're not as annoying as I am


----------



## Joe Skubinski

It's our Alumiloy hookup wire, same conductors in the stock headphone cable itself, x4. Resistance of each of those leads (conductor only) ~0.003 ohms, negligible.


----------



## InstantSilence

Joe Skubinski said:


> It's our Alumiloy hookup wire, same conductors in the stock headphone cable itself, x4. Resistance of each of those leads (conductor only) ~0.003 ohms, negligible.


Oh I love it. I worship.
I can tell grandpa to f off now.


----------



## jlbrach

my suggestion to people is to listen to your product, if it doesnt sound right look into it otherwise stop looking for trouble


----------



## Litlgi74

Not looking to disturb the hornets nest... But shouldn't the leads to the driver be super conductor cable? wouldn't that be the purest choice if you were going to upgrade to the superconductor cable?

Please forgive me... Lol


----------



## InstantSilence

Litlgi74 said:


> Not looking to disturb the hornets nest... But shouldn't the leads to the driver be super conductor cable? wouldn't that be the purest choice if you were going to upgrade to the superconductor cable?
> 
> Please forgive me... Lol


I rather it be a tube, with mercury in it to conduct instead.


----------



## InstantSilence

On a more serious note, as I'm sure many here have even mor gear especially nice amps ect. 
How does one go about getting insurance for these, is there a specific electronics insurance, how does it work?


----------



## attmci (Jan 22, 2021)

deleted.


----------



## Litlgi74

InstantSilence said:


> On a more serious note, as I'm sure many here have even mor gear especially nice amps ect.
> How does one go about getting insurance for these, is there a specific electronics insurance, how does it work?


I made sure it was on my home owners policy.


----------



## MWeston (Jan 21, 2021)

Well, this was awesome to see (inside the TC).  I think I can see how the crinkling around the edge is insignificant to the sound because that is the adhered area where sound is not allowed to emanate.  Crinkling in the open area is the only place it would be concerning and this one looks toight....toight like a tiger. 

Now, out of complete fairness and unbiased review, that Susvara sitting right behind the TC also needs to be opened up and photographed. 

EDIT: Actually that might be one of the HE-1000 variants.  Still, I'd like to see the Susvara design most of all.


----------



## paradoxper

MWeston said:


> Well, this was awesome to see (inside the TC).  I think I can see how the crinkling around the edge is insignificant to the sound because that is the adhered area where sound is not allowed to emanate.  Crinkling in the open area is the only place it would be concerning and this one looks toight....toight like a tiger.
> 
> Now, out of complete fairness and unbiased review, that Susvara sitting right behind the TC also needs to be opened up and photographed.


We go from crinkled drivers to flaking drivers. Christ.


----------



## ra990 (Jan 22, 2021)

Litlgi74 said:


> Not looking to disturb the hornets nest... But shouldn't the leads to the driver be super conductor cable? wouldn't that be the purest choice if you were going to upgrade to the superconductor cable?
> 
> Please forgive me... Lol


So, I see this type of comment all the time. But, when you are talking about tiny connections, like those connecting the cable to the trace on the driver, there is virtually no resistance - the amount or type of cable needed for that connection is fairly negligible. If it were a longer cable run, you would pay more attention to the type of cable used for the connection, but there would be no difference in sound by upgrading the conductor in that tiny connection. I know it sounds strange to have a really expensive cable end up to a connection that looks like that. But, the science supports it apparently.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Joe, you could nip the talk in various forums in the bud if you provide a lifetime warranty on the drivers. Rosson Audio does this as well, for example. I think in such a price segment this should be normal. Personally, I am now also a little afraid that a driver may go after the 3 year warranty and I have to pay thousands of dollars. What do you think about my point of view?


----------



## MatW

Trance_Gott said:


> Joe, you could nip the talk in various forums in the bud if you provide a lifetime warranty on the drivers. Rosson Audio does this as well, for example. I think in such a price segment this should be normal. Personally, I am now also a little afraid that a driver may go after the 3 year warranty and I have to pay thousands of dollars. What do you think about my point of view?


I do not want to engage in this topic, as I am personally not so worried about this, but just wanted to add the information that ZMF also provides lifetime warranty of their drivers.


----------



## ahossam

Drivers lifetime warranty at this price point I support that.


----------



## vonBaron

MWeston said:


> Well, this was awesome to see (inside the TC).  I think I can see how the crinkling around the edge is insignificant to the sound because that is the adhered area where sound is not allowed to emanate.  Crinkling in the open area is the only place it would be concerning and this one looks toight....toight like a tiger.
> 
> Now, out of complete fairness and unbiased review, that Susvara sitting right behind the TC also needs to be opened up and photographed.
> 
> EDIT: Actually that might be one of the HE-1000 variants.  Still, I'd like to see the Susvara design most of all.


+1
Me too want to see Susvara inside


----------



## lambdastorm

lol the subreddit is blowing up.


Joe Skubinski said:


> That's a TC driver. Looks normal. What's the issue?
> The black area underneath is aluminum, the diaphragm material is adhered  to it in that area.
> 
> I should mention that inspecting the 1266 from the baffle side is something we don't even do. The odds of damaging the driver is quite high even with proper tooling and experience. It's VERY thin material, and the magnet has a strong affinity for anything steel. Seeing a Husky screwdriver nearby, you have to be stupid lucky not to ruin the driver. The torque on the baffle screws will be incorrect and uneven on that channel.


If I recall right, it says on the user manual that the torque on the baffle screws are set to a specific value as to make the headphone sound right. Can you explain how that works? Like if you tighten the screws a few degrees more the headphone will actually sound different?


----------



## ken6217

Joe, you better lock the doors. Next I see a storming of the Abyss factory, and possibly an insurrection.


----------



## Litlgi74

ken6217 said:


> Joe, you better lock the doors. Next I see a storming of the Abyss factory, and possibly an insurrection.


Headphone terrorists.


----------



## Articnoise

paradoxper said:


> That's 'driver flex' caused by a change in seal. Some IEMs exhibit this behavior as well.
> And, for fun, with STAX, this is affectionately known as the "STAX fart."



No no it's the STAX bass that is called STAX fart


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Screw torque sets the amount of compression on the gasket material, so affects coupling of the speaker driver baffle to the frame and ultimately it's resonant character. Varying the torque settings is noticeable (as are changes in gasket materials). It's a highly tweaked out assembly, and screw torque is a fine tune on it.

Loudspeakers act the same way, varying gasket materials and torque of the mounting screws on a tweeter or bass/mid tends to have audible affects. 



lambdastorm said:


> If I recall right, it says on the user manual that the torque on the baffle screws are set to a specific value as to make the headphone sound right. Can you explain how that works? Like if you tighten the screws a few degrees more the headphone will actually sound different?







ken6217 said:


> Joe, you better lock the doors. Next I see a storming of the Abyss factory, and possibly an insurrection.


----------



## paradoxper

lambdastorm said:


> lol the subreddit is blowing up.
> 
> If I recall right, it says on the user manual that the torque on the baffle screws are set to a specific value as to make the headphone sound right. Can you explain how that works? Like if you tighten the screws a few degrees more the headphone will actually sound different?


I wonder why that poster deleted his thread.


----------



## paradoxper

Articnoise said:


> No no it's the STAX bass that is called STAX fart


Haha. No. Learn your history.   
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-new.223263/post-3214837


----------



## ra990 (Jan 22, 2021)

vonBaron said:


> +1
> Me too want to see Susvara inside


I'm not willing to completely disassemble it, but here's a look at my Susvara driver below the pads...I was doing a pad swap so snapped a pic


EDIT - also happy to report I have another TC on the way and will be able to do a side-by-side comparison of the Susvara and TC, running out of the TT2 balanced and also out of the Pass Labs XA25 power amp.


----------



## DJJEZ

Any tt2 owners tried 1266 direct from the TT2 SE? Big discussion in TT2 thread about abyss and tt2 and whether its good enough to power them.


----------



## ra990

DJJEZ said:


> Any tt2 owners tried 1266 direct from the TT2 SE? Big discussion in TT2 thread about abyss and tt2 and whether its good enough to power them.


I did try my best to compare SE out and balanced out with the 1266/phi/TC (I've had all three). I found the balanced XLR outs from the TT2 were ideal. Plenty of power, transparency, impact, I was happy with that. The single ended outs sounded a bit thinner to me, but I honestly didn't precisely volume match, nor did I use the same cable between the two connections. I liked where I was with the volume control when using balanced outs. I was too much over 0 volume with single ended outs. Same story with the Susvara right now, I'm amazed at how well the TT2 drives them from the balanced outs.


----------



## genefruit (Jan 22, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> Any tt2 owners tried 1266 direct from the TT2 SE? Big discussion in TT2 thread about abyss and tt2 and whether its good enough to power them.


Yes, that's how I and many others run them.  I typically listen with high gain at -13 using SE.  If I'm feeling especially motivated, -5.

With that said, I purchased a XLR adapter cable and tried it this afternoon, volume matched, for about three minutes and took it out due to no clear positive impact and some subjective negative impact. 

Others may disagree with my normal volume levels and my perceived lack of value in using the XLR out.  It's easy enough for one test on their own and draw their own conclusions.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jan 22, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> Any tt2 owners tried 1266 direct from the TT2 SE? Big discussion in TT2 thread about abyss and tt2 and whether its good enough to power them.


I used to have the TT2. The SE does not power the TCs adequately. I know this because after getting my more powerful separate headphone amp, the bass was much better than straight out of the TT2 SE.


----------



## ra990

Ciggavelli said:


> I used to have the TT2. The SE does not power the TCs adequately. I know this because after getting my more powerful separate headphone amp, the bass was much better than straight out of the TT2 SE.


Why didn't you try the balanced outs? It added weight to the low end.


----------



## InstantSilence

The balanced out does add weight and heft to the bottom end, at a slight loss of transparency, but less of a loss in comparison to an external amp(in my case a LP/I'm sure plenty of other amps are transparent enough) 
I too think (after rough volume match and a few hours of swapping, that the SE from tt2 is plenty to drive them well if you rather keep the transparency. 
Rob Watts also said that SE is capable enough for the Abyss.


----------



## Roasty

Does anyone here keep both the TC and Diana Phi in their stable? 

I googled Utopia vs Diana Phi and so far most of the hits have returned favourably for the Diana. To be honest, I never really considered the Diana, after getting the TC. After the recent ASR measurement thing, as usual, curiosity got the better of me. 

So, just wondering if any of you deem it worthy enough to have the Diana around, despite already owning the TC.


----------



## ra990

Roasty said:


> Does anyone here keep both the TC and Diana Phi in their stable?
> 
> I googled Utopia vs Diana Phi and so far most of the hits have returned favourably for the Diana. To be honest, I never really considered the Diana, after getting the TC. After the recent ASR measurement thing, as usual, curiosity got the better of me.
> 
> So, just wondering if any of you deem it worthy enough to have the Diana around, despite already owning the TC.


Definitely no reason to, imo. TC does everything better.


----------



## MatW

Roasty said:


> Does anyone here keep both the TC and Diana Phi in their stable?
> 
> I googled Utopia vs Diana Phi and so far most of the hits have returned favourably for the Diana. To be honest, I never really considered the Diana, after getting the TC. After the recent ASR measurement thing, as usual, curiosity got the better of me.
> 
> So, just wondering if any of you deem it worthy enough to have the Diana around, despite already owning the TC.


I considered it, simply because I love headphones , but it would make little sense. The main reason for me would be portability, but we're not going anywhere these days, and on the road I would need either a closed back or IEMs.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ra990 said:


> Why didn't you try the balanced outs? It added weight to the low end.


I didn’t have the right cable, and I used it as an excuse to justify buying the amp I wanted


----------



## makan

Roasty said:


> Does anyone here keep both the TC and Diana Phi in their stable?
> 
> I googled Utopia vs Diana Phi and so far most of the hits have returned favourably for the Diana. To be honest, I never really considered the Diana, after getting the TC. After the recent ASR measurement thing, as usual, curiosity got the better of me.
> 
> So, just wondering if any of you deem it worthy enough to have the Diana around, despite already owning the TC.


I have both the TC and Diana phi. For me the Diana is more portable walking around the house, and for very short sessions or when I am multi tasking, where I am too lazy to grab the TC out of the pelican case. For more serious listening, I use the TC.


----------



## Roasty

Thanks for the responses, guys. 
Let's see if this itch needs to be scratched or if it'll go away on its own..


----------



## MatW

Roasty said:


> Thanks for the responses, guys.
> Let's see if this itch needs to be scratched or if it'll go away on its own..


😂 Not the responses you needed, right? There's a new Focal headphone on the way. Maybe the itch will change course...


----------



## Roasty

MatW said:


> 😂 Not the responses you needed, right? There's a new Focal headphone on the way. Maybe the itch will change course...



Heh.. Just looking for validation.. Or a reason not to. I was just thinking, if Abyss did a u-turn and offered lifetime warranty on drivers, I would take the plunge and just go ahead and order a Diana. 

On a side note, the TC Phi goes really well with the Milo Reference. I think I am leaning to the Milo over the WA33 with the TC Phi. However, I can't say the same for the Susvara, which I still prefer with the WA33.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Roasty said:


> Heh.. Just looking for validation.. Or a reason not to. I was just thinking, if Abyss did a u-turn and offered lifetime warranty on drivers, I would take the plunge and just go ahead and order a Diana.



Roasty, epic setup  . Btw, do you get the Stax cover over the tc?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

MatW said:


> There's a new Focal headphone on the way



Is this a rumor I missed again?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Is this a rumor I missed again?


I’m wondering the same.


----------



## MatW

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Is this a rumor I missed again?


I just saw this:


----------



## Roasty

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Roasty, epic setup  . Btw, do you get the Stax cover over the tc?



Thanks man. The Dave will be returned to its owner soon.. So I may have to look for another dac. Yep the Stax cover fits over the TC. it's a tight fit though.


----------



## ken6217 (Jan 22, 2021)

How can they offer a lifetime warranty when it’s up for debate as to did the drivers fail on her own or was it due to the user? For example there are quite a few people using a speaker amps to drive their 1266. Even though I’m sure none of us have had failures using a speaker amp, Joe has told me that it’s an expensive proposition if you blow a driver using a speaker amp. In other words, you’re on your own.


----------



## Roasty

If that's the case, how is it different if people used speaker amps and blow the drivers within the 1st week of purchase? They'd still have to replace it, since it's within warranty, and still up to debate if it was failure or user error (if they didn't disclose they used a speaker amp).


----------



## paradoxper (Jan 22, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> How can they offer a lifetime warranty when it’s up for debate as to did the drivers fail on her own or was it due to the user? For example there are quite a few people using a speaker amps to drive their 1266. Even though I’m sure none of us have had failures using a speaker amp, Joe has told me that it’s an expensive proposition if you blow a driver using a speaker amp. In other words, you’re on your own.


What was meant to be said is ZMF will maintain a legacy brand due to the nature of Zach's character, his involvement within the community and the unrivaled lifetime warranty.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> If that's the case, how is it different if people used speaker amps and blow the drivers within the 1st week of purchase? They'd still have to replace it, since it's within warranty, and still up to debate if it was failure or user error (if they didn't disclose they used a speaker amp).



I guess there’s nothing a company can do with dishonesty. There’s more of a chance blowing a driver using 125 watts or 250 watts into 8 ohms as opposed to what a headphone amp puts out


----------



## ken6217

Whatever happened to this forum? I remember when it used to be people talking about the enjoyment of these headphones. Now it’s turned into, what we can what can we find wrong with them.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Whatever happened to this forum? I remember when it used to be people talking about the enjoyment of these headphones. Now it’s turned into, what we can what can we find wrong with them.


Wait. What can you find wrong with them!?


----------



## MSA1133 (Jan 22, 2021)

Roasty said:


> Does anyone here keep both the TC and Diana Phi in their stable?
> 
> I googled Utopia vs Diana Phi and so far most of the hits have returned favourably for the Diana. To be honest, I never really considered the Diana, after getting the TC. After the recent ASR measurement thing, as usual, curiosity got the better of me.
> 
> So, just wondering if any of you deem it worthy enough to have the Diana around, despite already owning the TC.



I had the same curiosity and have the Utopia! However instead of going to the Phi I went with its little sister the V2!

It definitely has the Abyss sound especially for the low end, expanded sound stage and detailed highs. It's not detailed as the TC but much much more portable. I'm using them on the Cayin N6ii A01 & iBasso DX300 DAPs and it sounds fantastic! Definitely unlike those flawed measurements 

When I added the Romi Audio BX-2 Plus portable class A Amp that generates more than 5 watts per channel at 32 Ohms to the mix, the Diana V2s really sing. It's a wonderful, portable experience. 

As for the Utopia comparison, the Utopias are definitely faster, has better transients and more detailed. The V2 have a much much better low end, wider Soundstage, similar imaging and less fatiguing treble! Oh and the build quality is definitely premium on both but I find myself loving the Dianas more. 😀

No fit issues for me and the pads were comfortable, but I'd recommend going for a headstrap pad for the Diana, I will try to link the recommend pad which costs around $10 USD from Amazon to alleviate the small hotspot that might appear on the top of your head after long listening sessions.  

Edit: Found them:

Abyss recommendation: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G4BQC1B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 

Head-Fi recommendation: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NP9KLDL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

All in all, the TCs are still king but they have a wonderful sister that you'll lose the track of time while being with her, 30 minutes will easily turn into 3 hours!


----------



## Roasty

MSA1133 said:


> I had the same curiosity and have the Utopia! However instead of going to the Phi I went with its little sister the V2!
> 
> It definitely has the Abyss sound especially for the low end, expanded sound stage and detailed highs. It's not detailed as the TC but much much more portable. I'm using them on the Cayin N6ii A01 & iBasso DX300 DAPs and it sounds fantastic! Definitely unlike those flawed measurements
> 
> ...



Hey man thanks so much for chiming in! Looks like I'm going to have to try and look for a Phi to try out! Odd, that I've never ever seen one in the wild, not even in the local abyss dealership. Will msg their guy and see if they have one in the store somewhere. I have an iBasso dx220 with amp 8 so I guess I won't totally rule out a portable setup. Also, thanks for the headband links!


----------



## MSA1133

Roasty said:


> Hey man thanks so much for chiming in! Looks like I'm going to have to try and look for a Phi to try out! Odd, that I've never ever seen one in the wild, not even in the local abyss dealership. Will msg their guy and see if they have one in the store somewhere. I have an iBasso dx220 with amp 8 so I guess I won't totally rule out a portable setup. Also, thanks for the headband links!



You're most welcome!

Thank you too for making me get these out and remember how great they sound!


----------



## jlbrach

makan said:


> I have both the TC and Diana phi. For me the Diana is more portable walking around the house, and for very short sessions or when I am multi tasking, where I am too lazy to grab the TC out of the pelican case. For more serious listening, I use the TC.


the diana series is obviously preferable for those interested in portability...taking It with you on a trip etc


----------



## qboogie

ra990 said:


> I did try my best to compare SE out and balanced out with the 1266/phi/TC (I've had all three). I found the balanced XLR outs from the TT2 were ideal. Plenty of power, transparency, impact, I was happy with that. The single ended outs sounded a bit thinner to me, but I honestly didn't precisely volume match, nor did I use the same cable between the two connections. I liked where I was with the volume control when using balanced outs. I was too much over 0 volume with single ended outs. Same story with the Susvara right now, I'm amazed at how well the TT2 drives them from the balanced outs.



I can concur the TT2 balanced can drive the TC, with more powerful bass compared to SE. There is just the slightest improvement of upper mids when using the SE. My usual volume is -20 via XLR3 which is closely volume matched to -26 via SE. 

I've tried the stock cable, Norne silvergarde S3-C, and Forza noir hybrid. Just bought a superconductor HP cable with some moon audio XLR3 adapters for the rear TT2 -- waiting for them to come in. Will report back.


----------



## ra990

I really liked the Dana Lazuli with the TCs.


MSA1133 said:


>


Total cost of those headphones exceeds the GDP of some countries.


----------



## ra990 (Jan 22, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> Whatever happened to this forum? I remember when it used to be people talking about the enjoyment of these headphones. Now it’s turned into, what we can what can we find wrong with them.





paradoxper said:


> Wait. What can you find wrong with them!?


I'm betting I'm not the only one with a mild case of OCD on this forum. I think a huge portion of the audiophile market consists of people with untreated neuroses. It's a healthy outlet, if you can afford it. Focus all your attention on chasing down perfection, costs being of no concern, and never be 100% satisfied. That's audiophilia.


----------



## paradoxper

ra990 said:


> I'm betting I'm not the only one with a mild case of OCD on this forum. I think a huge portion of the audiophile market consists of people with untreated neuroses. It's a healthy outlet, if you can afford it. Focus all your attention on chasing down perfection, costs being of no concern, and never be 100% satisfied, that's audiophilia.


You didn't answer the question!


----------



## InstantSilence (Jan 22, 2021)

ra990 said:


> I'm betting I'm not the only one with a mild case of OCD on this forum. I think a huge portion of the audiophile market consists of people with untreated neuroses. It's a healthy outlet, if you can afford it. Focus all your attention on chasing down perfection, costs being of no concern, and never be 100% satisfied. That's audiophilia.


Sry. Delete


----------



## jlbrach

ra990 said:


> I'm betting I'm not the only one with a mild case of OCD on this forum. I think a huge portion of the audiophile market consists of people with untreated neuroses. It's a healthy outlet, if you can afford it. Focus all your attention on chasing down perfection, costs being of no concern, and never be 100% satisfied. That's audiophilia.


no different than wine collectors etc.....


----------



## Abyss Headphones




----------



## ahossam

Roasty said:


> On a side note, the TC Phi goes really well with the Milo Reference. I think I am leaning to the Milo over the WA33 with the TC Phi. However, I can't say the same for the Susvara, which I still prefer with the WA33.



Can you elaborate further why you prefer Milo Reference over WA33 with TC?
Thanks.


----------



## Roasty

ahossam said:


> Can you elaborate further why you prefer Milo Reference over WA33 with TC?
> Thanks.



With the Milo Reference, I'm getting more low end slam and at the same time the bass seems faster. The bass sounds like it is reaching even lower than before. Compared to the tube amp, the mids sound like it has really tightened up and there is also more space between elements of music. I was worried the highs would be harsh but that isn't the case, thankfully. Seems like I quite like the SS flavour this amp gives to the TC. Perhaps it is synergy or just playing to the TC strengths. Or, maybe its just feeding the TC a crap load of power. 

With the Susvara, the Milo sounds generally thinner than the wa33. Also, the highs are bordering on harsh for me. I rather keep the susvara with the wa33.


----------



## MatW

Roasty said:


> Hey man thanks so much for chiming in! Looks like I'm going to have to try and look for a Phi to try out! Odd, that I've never ever seen one in the wild, not even in the local abyss dealership. Will msg their guy and see if they have one in the store somewhere. I have an iBasso dx220 with amp 8 so I guess I won't totally rule out a portable setup. Also, thanks for the headband links!


I believe the Phi is harder to drive than the V2. This may be one thing to consider if you're thinking of driving it with a DAP.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Trance_Gott said:


> Joe, you could nip the talk in various forums in the bud if you provide a lifetime warranty on the drivers. Rosson Audio does this as well, for example. I think in such a price segment this should be normal. Personally, I am now also a little afraid that a driver may go after the 3 year warranty and I have to pay thousands of dollars. What do you think about my point of view?


No response?


----------



## olle83

qboogie said:


> I can concur the TT2 balanced can drive the TC, with more powerful bass compared to SE. There is just the slightest improvement of upper mids when using the SE. My usual volume is -20 via XLR3 which is closely volume matched to -26 via SE.
> 
> I've tried the stock cable, Norne silvergarde S3-C, and Forza noir hybrid. Just bought a superconductor HP cable with some moon audio XLR3 adapters for the rear TT2 -- waiting for them to come in. Will report back.


You must be listening pretty quietly?
I'm using XLR too and I use -10 to +4 volume range. It depends on how much dynamic range compression has been used in the tracks.
I do find the sound to be slightly on the weak side for me. I have to try speaker amps later and see if they offer more.


----------



## vonBaron

Trance_Gott said:


> No response?


Don't even think Abyss will give to you lifetime warranty


----------



## Trance_Gott

Then what is the cost to replace the drivers Joe? And why Rosson, ZMF can make it for lifetime and you not? 
Maybe the drivers are not that durable as other manufacturers are?


----------



## bfreedma

Trance_Gott said:


> Then what is the cost to replace the drivers Joe? And why Rosson, ZMF can make it for lifetime and you not?
> Maybe the drivers are not that durable as other manufacturers are?



Without a lifetime warranty, there may not be reason for a company to keep spares as replacements.  Does Abyss guarantee any period of time they will repair/replace drivers, even at a cost to the owner?  Or will older models not be repairable by the factory at some point?

If there is a policy statement that someone can point me to, that would be great.


----------



## attmci

Trance_Gott said:


> Then what is the cost to replace the drivers Joe? And why Rosson, ZMF can make it for lifetime and you not?
> Maybe the drivers are not that durable as other manufacturers are?


The cable is $1000. So a pair of driver will cost you close to $3500 plus.


----------



## paradoxper

Trance_Gott said:


> Then what is the cost to replace the drivers Joe? And why Rosson, ZMF can make it for lifetime and you not?
> Maybe the drivers are not that durable as other manufacturers are?


That isn't quite fair. Your namewhoeverthefrack brand doesn't offer lifetime warranties.
Now Rosson has foundation with Audez'e, and Audez'e has a proven record with driver failures, so of course Alex is going to offer a lifetime warranty to leverage some sales. 

Still the HD800 is the most impressive driver ever in terms of reliability. It's astonishing.


----------



## ken6217

bfreedma said:


> Without a lifetime warranty, there may not be reason for a company to keep spares as replacements.  Does Abyss guarantee any period of time they will repair/replace drivers, even at a cost to the owner?  Or will older models not be repairable by the factory at some point?
> 
> If there is a policy statement that someone can point me to, that would be great.



You could ask this about any company. Cars, home appliances, or anything else.

Abyss isn’t alone not not offering a lifetime warranty. Just off the top of my head I googled HiFiman, Audeze, Dan Clark Audio, and Meze, and none of them offer a lifetime warranty.


----------



## bfreedma

ken6217 said:


> You could ask this about any company. Cars, home appliances, or anything else.
> 
> Abyss isn’t alone not not offering a lifetime warranty. Just off the top of my head I googled HiFiman, Audeze, Dan Clark Audio, and Meze, and none of them offer a lifetime warranty.



And other than Audeze, I won’t purchase from them.  Audeze is a bit different in that they start a new 3 year warranty on repaired/replaced drivers.  Does Abyss also restart with a fresh 3 years, or is it a hard 3 years from date of purchase regardless of interim warranty work?

Have you had trouble getting older cars or major appliances repaired?  I haven’t, so don’t think your example works well.


----------



## ken6217

bfreedma said:


> And other than Audeze, I won’t purchase from them.  Audeze is a bit different in that they start a new 3 year warranty on repaired/replaced drivers.  Does Abyss also restart with a fresh 3 years, or is it a hard 3 years from date of purchase regardless of interim warranty work?
> 
> Have you had trouble getting older cars or major appliances repaired?  I haven’t, so don’t think your example works well.



So using your logic, then why would anyone think that Abyss won’t have parts and the ability to fix headphones down the road? 

Separately, in any industry at some point parts become obsolete. They can’t invest money in old inventory to sit on a shelf in case it is ever needed.


----------



## bfreedma

ken6217 said:


> So using your logic, then why would anyone think that Abyss won’t have parts and the ability to fix headphones down the road?
> 
> Separately, in any industry at some point parts become obsolete. They can’t invest money in old inventory to sit on a shelf in case it is ever needed.



I simply asked if Abyss had a policy on service life.  The same question I would ask any company making high cost/low volume product with frequent version changes before purchase.

Not sure why you’re getting so defensive over such a simple and direct question.   But circle the wagons if you must...


----------



## ken6217

bfreedma said:


> I simply asked if Abyss had a policy on service life.  The same question I would ask any company making high cost/low volume product with frequent version changes before purchase.
> 
> Not sure why you’re getting so defensive over such a simple and direct question.   But circle the wagons if you must...



i’m not defensive. It’s not my company. I’m just amazed at all of the Nervous Nellie posts about what if this and what if that, and why don’t they have a lifetime warranty, when very few in the industry have that.


----------



## FLTWS (Jan 23, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> ...
> Still the HD800 is the most impressive driver ever in terms of reliability. It's astonishing.



I agree, I still have my 800 and 800S models. They have stood the test of time and sound for me. But I like variety so I also have the RAAL and Phi. Had the Utopia but just a little too tight of a fit for my ears and I wanted better in sound staging.


----------



## bfreedma

ken6217 said:


> i’m not defensive. It’s not my company. I’m just amazed at all of the Nervous Nellie posts about what if this and what if that, and why don’t they have a lifetime warranty, when very few in the industry have that.



If Abyss would simply answer a few questions, this discussion would largely end.  I don’t think asking about the service/repair life for a high cost/low volume product is either unusual or unfair.


----------



## paradoxper

bfreedma said:


> If Abyss would simply answer a few questions, this discussion would largely end.  I don’t think asking about the service/repair life for a high cost/low volume product is either unusual or unfair.


It is a Saturday morning. Breathe.


----------



## bfreedma

paradoxper said:


> It is a Saturday morning. Breathe.



ironic, coming from someone who referenced a certain power cable fiasco a few days ago 😎


----------



## paradoxper

bfreedma said:


> ironic, coming from someone who referenced a certain power cable fiasco a few days ago 😎


I never insisted Joe respond to x claims about his superbullfish cables. Plus that discussion took place during business hours.


----------



## JLoud (Jan 23, 2021)

bfreedma said:


> And other than Audeze, I won’t purchase from them.  Audeze is a bit different in that they start a new 3 year warranty on repaired/replaced drivers.  Does Abyss also restart with a fresh 3 years, or is it a hard 3 years from date of purchase regardless of interim warranty work?
> 
> Have you had trouble getting older cars or major appliances repaired?  I haven’t, so don’t think your example works well.


Car manufacturers only make replacement parts for a period of 10 years. Then the parts are aftermarket. At a certain point I don’t think it is reasonable to expect a small company to continue to make parts they no longer use. Of course I am going to use that as an excuse to buy a new model. 😁


----------



## bfreedma

JLoud said:


> Car manufacturers only make replacement parts for a period of 10 years. Then the parts are aftermarket. At a certain point I don’t think it is reasonable to expect a small company to continue to make parts they no longer use. Of course I am going to use that as an excuse to buy a new model. 😁



Agree with the description.  Not asking for, nor would I expect a perpetual guarantee of part availability.  Just looking to understand what JPS is committed to.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Stax also repairs 007 MK1s, but they just get the current MK2 drivers installed. So that's still possible after 24 years!
Focal gives 5 years warranty for the Utopia.

But maybe JPS is accommodating for this after 3 years. It would be very annoying to have to pay 3500 USD for new drivers after 3 years when they are broken without any fault of the customer by opening the housing or the like. Looking forward to a statement.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Jan 23, 2021)

nm


----------



## vonBaron

1y warranty is unacceptable in such expensive headphones.


----------



## ahossam

Hoegaardener70 said:


> 3 years? It is one year. The “extended warranty“ is only given to buyers who register. I did not know and missed it, as did others here.



Same here, missed it.


----------



## jlbrach

I have had very good experience dealing with abyss when I had an issue so perhaps lets let up on the attacks?....I thought this was supposed to be a forum to discuss the sound and music etc?


----------



## FLTWS

Twice here, no problems, took care of me with quick turnaround both times, same day in and out of their shop.


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> I have had very good experience dealing with abyss when I had an issue so perhaps lets let up on the attacks?....I thought this was supposed to be a forum to discuss the sound and music etc?



Thats what I said yesterday.


----------



## MatW

MatW said:


> I just saw this:




Update: @Malevolent just posted this in the closed back headphones thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...parisons-reviews.939901/page-98#post-16126868


----------



## olle83

I missed the 3 year warranty by ordering from overseas, apparently that is not allowed by the terms. I didn't know this when I ordered the TC's.

I think lifetime warranty is too vague of a term, it's clearer to have warranty in years. Please make it 5 years for everyone Abyss team.


----------



## vonBaron

Yes 5y for everyone will be nice.


----------



## paradoxper

Ok.
5 years!


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Seconded. 5 years


----------



## Trance_Gott

+1
5 years would be ok.


----------



## zenlisten

Let's also vote on world peace! Who's in?


----------



## Ciggavelli




----------



## JLoud

I'm sure if Batman had headphones they would be the 1266. Or I guess they would be Batphones! But definitely in black, and of course with the SC (super friends cable)


----------



## cjarrett

I just got my 1266 last month--thanks for letting me know about the 3-year manual warranty.  I just applied.


----------



## ra990

cjarrett said:


> I just got my 1266 last month--thanks for letting me know about the 3-year manual warranty.  I just applied.


What's nice is (unlike some other manufacturers) your 3 year extended warranty is transferrable once, so when you sell it, you just email the folks at Abyss with the info of the buyer and they are covered by the warranty.


----------



## Roasty

What's the rationale for having to apply for the 3 years? If they were willing to offer an extension from 1 to 3 years just by sending in an application, why not just offer 3 years straight up? Rather than "penalize" those who forgot and missed the deadline, or even totally didn't know about it in the first place etc.

I know this isn't exclusive to Abyss. Even Benchmark does something similar ie 1 year, extended to 5 years if registered online (us and Canada), and to 2 years for international. I don't even know why there is a difference in duration based on location..

Perhaps someone can cast some light on this?


----------



## ra990

Roasty said:


> What's the rationale for having to apply for the 3 years? If they were willing to offer an extension from 1 to 3 years just by sending in an application, why not just offer 3 years straight up? Rather than "penalize" those who forgot and missed the deadline, or even totally didn't know about it in the first place etc.
> 
> I know this isn't exclusive to Abyss. Even Benchmark does something similar ie 1 year, extended to 5 years if registered online (us and Canada), and to 2 years for international. I don't even know why there is a difference in duration based on location..
> 
> Perhaps someone can cast some light on this?


A lot of companies do this just to get users to register with them. That way they build a client list for marketing offers, etc. This gives the user a push to go through the registration, which most wouldn't do. I don't like it either and think it should be by default, but it's definitely not anything rare across all industries.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Abyss knows what they’re doing though. I feel the warranty situation is done (partially) for monetary reasons. They save money by having people not know about the 3 year warranty situation.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Jan 23, 2021)

ra990 said:


> A lot of companies do this just to get users to register with them. That way they build a client list for marketing offers, etc. This gives the user a push to go through the registration, which most wouldn't do. I don't like it either and think it should be by default, but it's definitely not anything rare across all industries.



Other companies usually made it very clear with the merchandise what you have to do. With my TC, no instructions or any sort of reference came.


----------



## kamlam

Second full day with my TC and I gotta say they’re pretty great! Just waiting on my GSX Mini.


----------



## cjarrett

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Other companies usually made it very clear with the merchandise what you have to do. With my TC, no instructions or any sort of reference came.


There most definitely was a message to register for an extended warranty on the seriel number card delivered with mine.  I just ignored it.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Jan 23, 2021)

cjarrett said:


> There most definitely was a message to register for an extended warranty on the seriel number card delivered with mine.  I just ignored it.



Oh - may be I overlooked it. I was very busy at that time earning the money to pay for the headphone. Quite ironic, in retrospective. Anyway, point made about the registration - off for some Saturday night music .


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Jan 24, 2021)

Roasty said:


> What's the rationale for having to apply for the 3 years? If they were willing to offer an extension from 1 to 3 years just by sending in an application, why not just offer 3 years straight up? Rather than "penalize" those who forgot and missed the deadline, or even totally didn't know about it in the first place etc.
> 
> I know this isn't exclusive to Abyss. Even Benchmark does something similar ie 1 year, extended to 5 years if registered online (us and Canada), and to 2 years for international. I don't even know why there is a difference in duration based on location..
> 
> Perhaps someone can cast some light on this?



From business perspective, there are some benefits by doing this. No, it's not about set a trap and hopefully people forget to register to shorten their warranty (less cost for abyss).

I used to work for Jaben Network for 7 years, so I know one or two things about this industry (or electronic in general).

1. Data. Nowadays data is such important things, by register to them, they know every user who use Abyss across the world. So these data not being kept only by dealers, but also by manufacturer. Not only Abyss doing this, another example is Vmoda through their distributors. (And some other companies that I couldn't remember).

How they expect people would register their product to abyss web? Give them benefit: Extra warranty. It's kind part of dealers responsibility to remind their customer about extended warranty actually (talk about customer service).

2. Because they have data, now they can communicate directly with end user (News, new products, promotion, etc). A bit useless for someone like me who live at the other part of the world, but powerful tools to target American customer.

3. Branding. By register warranty, they "force" you in good way to know more about their web, which is contain information about other headphone line up, accessories, background story about them, and "electronics", which is about what items that they recommend to work with Abyss headphones. Simply put, to add traffic to their web activities.

Not all customer in south east asia who just bought Diana or even Phi TC know much about Abyss brand itself, let alone JPS Labs.

I can think of some other reasons, but too lazy to think harder at rainy sunday


----------



## vonBaron

In terms of customer service Abyss is still my n1 in USA, i always get anserws on email pretty quick. To compare i send 3 email to Rosson and never get reply, 3 mails to HeadAmp and always lost communication after one reply...


----------



## FLTWS

I bought my Phi in November 2017 and it came with a note to register for the extended 3 year extended warranty, which I did, and was notified when they registered me.Unfortunately that ended Nov 2020, but I expect they will continue to support me going forward should I need servicing for a fee. I've always been responded to by Joe or a member of the Abyss team promptly on the few occasions I've had to make contact.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

FLTWS said:


> I bought my Phi in November 2017 and it came with a note to register for the extended 3 year extended warranty, which I did, and was notified when they registered me.Unfortunately that ended Nov 2020, but I expect they will continue to support me going forward should I need servicing for a fee. I've always been responded to by Joe or a member of the Abyss team promptly on the few occasions I've had to make contact.



Agreed, the Abyss response time is great.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Joe's response time has always been swift for me, I fully agree. That's not a problem, just my concern of the potential cost after 3 years. But on Monday we will certainly get an answer.


----------



## rayofsi

I bought my abyss second hand, still have the remainder of the 1 year warranty. No matter how great the build. i never would expect lifetime warranty, Just isn't feasible. Some thing $5000 headphones = i should get lifetime warranty.. Maybe if it were a pair of $5000 sony or apple headphones, they could give you a life time warranty.


----------



## genefruit

I guess if we're on the topic of extended warranties, I wonder if they Abyss (and others) self insure or if they purchase extended warranties on behalf of the customer behind the scenes (thus the reason they ask for you to register) in order to mitigate the risk in the event the warranty is exercised.  I'm sure there's a spreadsheet somewhere in their files that contain the analysis


----------



## Trance_Gott

I get an official response from the Abyss Team:

*"Hi,*
_*We have found our warranty polices to work well for everyone involved. We have no plans to change them.
Thanks!*_
*Team ABYSS"*

After that I ask the following:
*"My question ist what will cost a driver failure after 3 years? Are you accommodating then or will it cost thousands of dollars? That is what people want to know from you."*

And here the response:
*"I cannot answer that today, we'll see in 3 years. On the OG models we've created a method to keep the existing assembly (assuming it was not physically damaged) and only replace the diaphragms, cost is about 500 USD."*

I think the assembly is build as a tank and cannot broke alone. But the diaphragm. That's a word 500 usd I think then all TC owners can sleep more calmly now!


----------



## ehni

My idea would be warranty goes to 3 years by default, and incentive to register becomes a 50% off coupon for Super Conductor cable.


----------



## spacelion2077

I'm probably late on this, have you guys heard the controversies Abyss got involved in headphone subreddit? Apparently the materials Abyss used to make their driver are not worthy of the price they are asking for their headphone. A lot of people are not happy with the response Abyss has given them either. On audioscience forum, apparently Diana V2 failed to make a good impression in the measurement. But that really depends on subjectivity and personal preference for the sound imo.


----------



## ken6217

spacelion2077 said:


> I'm probably late on this, have you guys heard the controversies Abyss got involved in headphone subreddit? Apparently the materials Abyss used to make their driver are not worthy of the price they are asking for their headphone. A lot of people are not happy with the response Abyss has given them either. On audioscience forum, apparently Diana V2 failed to make a good impression in the measurement. But that really depends on subjectivity and personal preference for the sound imo.




You’re a day late and a dollar short


----------



## spacelion2077

For the reference:
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...opened_up_my_original_abyss_1266_this_is_the/
https://www.headphonesty.com/2021/01/the-abyss-headphones-crinkly-controversy/


----------



## spacelion2077

ken6217 said:


> You’re a day late and a dollar short



I just heard about it and honestly surprised by the amount of heat Abyss is getting. Personally It's the best sounding headphone I own and don't really understand why Abyss is causing so many controversies in the community


----------



## MatW

spacelion2077 said:


> I just heard about it and honestly surprised by the amount of heat Abyss is getting. Personally It's the best sounding headphone I own and don't really understand why Abyss is causing so many controversies in the community


It's been discussed quite extensively in the Diana thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dia...byss-headphones.777618/page-213#post-16099371


----------



## JLoud

And now on to another subject. Any subject. We could even talk about cats and BBQ like on the Schiit forum


----------



## spacelion2077

I spent some time browsing through some of the threads. While I enjoy Abyss 1266 sounds,  but they didn't handle it right from the PR perspective. Measurements and wirings are subjective preferences and debatable, but attacking customers/potential customers are not really a good outlook for the company's image.


----------



## paradoxper

JLoud said:


> And now on to another subject. Any subject. We could even talk about cats and BBQ like on the Schiit forum


Seems Buffalo wings would be more fitting. 

But I'm still totally cool with talking controversial cables, graphy-chart-measurement-thingamajigs, drivers, warranties or anything else that has been beat to the death all the same.


----------



## InstantSilence

What do some of you do to tame the treble bite of the abyss? 
It generally doesn't have much trouble with most genres, I listen almost exclusively to electronic, and most of those recordings are rather amateur, so in combination with the TC slight bite of treble and peaks... It gets fatiguing rather quick. 
Just looking for solutions


----------



## MatW (Jan 25, 2021)

nm


----------



## vonBaron

InstantSilence said:


> What do some of you do to tame the treble bite of the abyss?
> It generally doesn't have much trouble with most genres, I listen almost exclusively to electronic, and most of those recordings are rather amateur, so in combination with the TC slight bite of treble and peaks... It gets fatiguing rather quick.
> Just looking for solutions


Lower the TC in you head, for me it works.


----------



## Trance_Gott

InstantSilence said:


> What do some of you do to tame the treble bite of the abyss?
> It generally doesn't have much trouble with most genres, I listen almost exclusively to electronic, and most of those recordings are rather amateur, so in combination with the TC slight bite of treble and peaks... It gets fatiguing rather quick.
> Just looking for solutions


The Superconductor cable


----------



## F208Frank

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/abyss-tc-1266-w-full-system-for-sale.953164/#post-16129542

^for anyone interested currently in buying the TC and getting the full system with it.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

F208Frank said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/abyss-tc-1266-w-full-system-for-sale.953164/#post-16129542
> 
> ^for anyone interested currently in buying the TC and getting the full system with it.



Hang in there. Need to sell my Porsche first


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> Lower the TC in you head, for me it works.



I find this works, as well as pushing the ear pads back further


----------



## ken6217

InstantSilence said:


> What do some of you do to tame the treble bite of the abyss?
> It generally doesn't have much trouble with most genres, I listen almost exclusively to electronic, and most of those recordings are rather amateur, so in combination with the TC slight bite of treble and peaks... It gets fatiguing rather quick.
> Just looking for solutions



There’s not a lot you ould do with poor recordings. If you try to fix the trouble with those recordings, you end up losing resolution and transparency.


----------



## InstantSilence

ken6217 said:


> I find this works, as well as pushing the ear pads back further


What do you mean exactly?


----------



## ken6217

InstantSilence said:


> What do you mean exactly?



Says for instance your ears are centered perfectly in the middle part of the ear cup, slodethe headphones back a little.

I also find that from the song of the song you may want to shift my headphones around until you get the sound you like.


----------



## bagofolives

ken6217 said:


> I find this works, as well as pushing the ear pads back further


Oddly enough I end up raising them getting my ears lower down in the pads to deal with harsh treble.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Jan 25, 2021)

So, it turns out that by far the best cable I heard with the Utopia is not some Danacable, but the Superconductor cable (using AffinityCable adapter's, the high end version). Takes away harsh notes and makes all so smooth.


----------



## FLTWS

Great find. I'll be checking them (AffinityCable) out on eBay.


----------



## genefruit

FLTWS said:


> Great find. I'll be checking them (AffinityCable) out on eBay.


It appears they're under " affinityadapters"


----------



## Hoegaardener70

genefruit said:


> It appears they're under " affinityadapters"


Oh, it used to be AffinityCables (which I always found funny). Anyway, I can vouch for AffinityAdapters, Sean is great and knows what he is doing. He also provides information on impediance etc ...


----------



## Trance_Gott

Selling my Superconductor cable if someone is interested:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/jps-labs-superconductor-cable-for-1266-abyss-4-pin-xlr.953279/


----------



## InstantSilence

I too think about selling the TC... Soemone talk me out...


----------



## vonBaron




----------



## InstantSilence

Who am I kidding.... Just tried em again for first time in a few days... Love them all over again. What was I saying? 

I still need to help the top end chill out, I guess I'll just introduce some EQ and accept the shortcomings that come with that.


----------



## Ciggavelli

InstantSilence said:


> Who am I kidding.... Just tried em again for first time in a few days... Love them all over again. What was I saying?
> 
> I still need to help the top end chill out, I guess I'll just introduce some EQ and accept the shortcomings that come with that.


What’s your amp and dac?  Maybe you have a filter in the dac (like Chord’s filters)? Also maybe introducing tubes somewhere in your chain would fix that issue


----------



## InstantSilence

InstantSilence said:


> Who am I kidding.... Just tried em again for first time in a few days... Love them all over again. What was I saying?
> 
> I still need to help the top end chill out, I guess I'll just introduce some EQ and accept the shortcomings that come with that.


I put some smaller 0rings and bent the edges inward and moved the cups up and forward on my face
Allowing for sweet bass, and tamed treble. 
**** eq.


----------



## InstantSilence

Ciggavelli said:


> What’s your amp and dac?  Maybe you have a filter in the dac (like Chord’s filters)? Also maybe introducing tubes somewhere in your chain would fix that issue


I got LP now and I am definitely selling it. Don't have any experience with tubes, but I got 2 different pairs and while the changes are minute, I don't wanna spend a k to find out wha tubes I like. I think I can mediate the harshness with an upgraded cable for the TC. Just wish the prices wouldnt be so violent. 
Selling the LP, will post it tonight.


----------



## MacedonianHero

kamlam said:


> Second full day with my TC and I gotta say they’re pretty great! Just waiting on my GSX Mini.



Lol, just hold on to your socks when your GS-X mini arrives and you plug them in!


----------



## InstantSilence

Anyone know of a *cheaper cable* that tames the highs?


----------



## JLoud

The Norne Audio Silvergarde does a nice job. Listened to it last night. Compared to stock it lowers the treble energy and  seems to be more balanced.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

InstantSilence said:


> Anyone know of a *cheaper cable* that tames the highs?



Tasteful equing? I know you mentioned shortcomings come with it, but I cannot think of many if carefully done. 



JLoud said:


> The Norne Audio Silvergarde does a nice job. Listened to it last night. Compared to stock it lowers the treble energy and  seems to be more balanced.



Agreed, I have a Norne 18awg pure silver cable (I asked Trevor for a special cable especially for the TC) which is related (and a step up) to the Silvergarde and it makes a nice difference to the stock cable. It also has great ergonomics.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Tasteful equing? I know you mentioned shortcomings come with it, but I cannot think of many if carefully done.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed, I have a Norne 18awg pure silver cable (I asked Trevor for a special cable especially for the TC) which is related (and a step up) to the Silvergarde and it makes a nice difference to the stock cable. It also has great ergonomics.



Look to your source and amplifier as well. I'm using the Moon Audio Black Dragon with my pair and I'm very impressed with what I hear!


----------



## tholt

InstantSilence said:


> Anyone know of a *cheaper cable* that tames the highs?


Are you still using the stock cable? Forza Audio Noir hybrid really helps put some meat on the bones in the mids. No loss of bass, resolution or any other things you'd want to retain. The biteyness in the highs can still be prevalent (IMO it's just the way these drivers can be) but the Noir is a big upgrade over stock and reasonably priced. https://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=72


----------



## ekfc63

tholt said:


> Are you still using the stock cable? Forza Audio Noir hybrid really helps put some meat on the bones in the mids. No loss of bass, resolution or any other things you'd want to retain. The biteyness in the highs can still be prevalent (IMO it's just the way these drivers can be) but the Noir is a big upgrade over stock and reasonably priced. https://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=72



Have you compared to the Superconductor?


----------



## tholt

ekfc63 said:


> Have you compared to the Superconductor?


No


----------



## Skywatcher

tholt said:


> No


I have also replaced the stock cable with the Noir HPC and happy with it. Also haven't compared with the Superconductor.


----------



## Abyss Headphones (Jan 28, 2021)

Hey guys, we have a new toy in stock (besides the piano). A headphone stand designed specifically for the AB-1266. Limited to USA sales (in Europe contact Audiophile Artisans Amsterdam)
Thank you!
https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...es/products/headphone-stand-for-abyss-ab-1266


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jan 28, 2021)

Abyss Headphones said:


> Hey guys, we have a new toy in stock (besides the piano). A headphone stand designed specifically for the AB-1266. Limited to USA sales.
> Thank you!
> https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...es/products/headphone-stand-for-abyss-ab-1266


It’s a great stand. Makes sense you all would start to sell it. I’m glad you gave Rooms credit too

Limited sales in the US only is strange though. Maybe you all made a deal with Stefan?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Abyss Headphones said:


> Hey guys, we have a new toy in stock (besides the piano. A headphone stand designed specifically for the AB-1266. Limited to USA sales.
> Thank you!
> https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...es/products/headphone-stand-for-abyss-ab-1266



I have this one, and it looks very spectacular. My all-time favorite headstand (mine has red velvet where the headphones are rested thou. Black seems better in the long run).


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> It’s a great stand. Makes sense you all would start to sell it. I’m glad you gave Rooms credit too
> 
> Limited sales in the US only is strange though. Maybe you all made a deal with Stefan?



You had to edit this? You mean your original post wasn't onnoxious enough?


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> You had to edit this? You mean your original post wasn't onnoxious enough?


About as obnoxious as your reply. 

At first, I was kinda taken back about the whole thing. It’s obviously the same headphone stand that we all bought a while back. So, yeah, I guess it was a little obnoxious. But, whatever. It’s a forum and people make posts on forums.


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> About as obnoxious as your reply.
> 
> At first, I was kinda taken back about the whole thing. It’s obviously the same headphone stand that we all bought a while back. So, yeah, I guess it was a little obnoxious. But, whatever. It’s a forum and people make posts on forums.



My post wasn’t obnoxious. I was just calling you out. Obviously have something to say about Abyss. So just come out and say it.


----------



## InstantSilence

I like everybody here. We are all here to enjoy and share info. 
That stand is gorgeous, but looks like if I can ever afford anything abyss again, it's gonna be the pads haaaa!


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> My post wasn’t obnoxious. I was just calling you out. Obviously have something to say about Abyss. So just come out and say it.


I have. Check my previous posts in this exact thread.  I wasn’t even rude in the post about the headphone stand, so I’m a little confused as to why you took offense


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> I have. Check my previous posts in this exact thread.  I wasn’t even rude in the post about the headphone stand, so I’m a little confused as to why you took offense



Actually, I apologize. I read it on my phone and it didn't open up the link to the stand. I thought that it didn't mention Room and you were calling Abyss out. I guess I'm so used to the current negative posts, and jumped on you. Sorry about that.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> Actually, I apologize. I read it on my phone and it didn't open up the link to the stand. I thought that it didn't mention Room and you were calling Abyss out. I guess I'm so used to the current negative posts, and jumped on you. Sorry about that.


It’s all good. I appreciate you saying that


----------



## JLoud

I just want to say it is refreshing to see someone willing to say "hey I misunderstood, I'm sorry." And then the other person simply except and move on. We need more of this on forums and in the world in general. Well done gentlemen.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

@Ciggavelli I’m curious why you think it’s strange we only sell the stand in the US?


----------



## cjarrett

Bah, I was looking for a stand--you got me.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jan 28, 2021)

Joe Skubinski said:


> @Ciggavelli I’m curious why you think it’s strange we only sell the stand in the US?


Because the stand comes from Europe.  Why not sell it there too?  It’s a really good stand, so I think people outside of the US would be interested in it too. I dunno, I was just curious myself.

Edit: I just saw your edit to the original post. It wasn’t there before. So, yeah. Disregard my comment


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Jan 28, 2021)

Understood. The post was sort of a work in progress...
I think we all need a bit more patience.


----------



## zenlisten (Jan 29, 2021)

I've had the Abyss AB1266 Stand by Headphone Auditions Amsterdam & ROOMS Design for a month now. Time for a quick review.

Pros:

Very well built with good weight
Looks nice

Cons:

It's not high enough, so the cables (SC in my case) are bent too much, always in the same direction. Not sure how this affects the cables in the long run.
The top is only accepting the AB-1266 in a fully straight position. Since my normal listening position is slightly v-shaped every time I put it on the stand I have to straighten the middle, which may harm the top screw of the AB-1266 in the long run.
Quite expensive (at least here in Europe)
So I'm still looking for a better stand.

*EDIT:* Turns out the small arms at the top can be turned, which resolves the straightening issue. Great! Now I only need to insert an additional element to increase the height of the stand and it will be perfect.


----------



## Roasty

Someone posted a pic a while back, showing that you can angle out the small "arms" where the frame rests to accommodate an angled position when placed on the stand.


----------



## zenlisten (Jan 29, 2021)

Roasty said:


> Someone posted a pic a while back, showing that you can angle out the small "arms" where the frame rests to accommodate an angled position when placed on the stand.



Turns out I don't have the necessary tool to loose the screw in those small arms. I would appreciate if someone could post the code name of that specific screwdriver so I can order it.

EDIT: I could easily turn the small arms. Now I need a proper screwdriver to tighten them.


----------



## MatW

Roasty said:


> Someone posted a pic a while back, showing that you can angle out the small "arms" where the frame rests to accommodate an angled position when placed on the stand.


Yep. Here is my post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-858#post-15985121


----------



## MatW

zenlisten said:


> I've had the Abyss AB1266 Stand by Headphone Auditions Amsterdam & ROOMS Design for a month now. Time for a quick review.
> 
> Pros:
> 
> ...


I don't have an issue with the height at all, loads of space. SC cable must be pretty solid/stiff.


----------



## zenlisten

MatW said:


> I don't have an issue with the height at all, loads of space. SC cable must be pretty solid/stiff.



For me it looks like it's bending too much:


----------



## Roasty

zenlisten said:


> For me it looks like it's bending too much:



Turn the headphones the other way around.


----------



## MatW

Roasty said:


> Turn the headphones the other way around.


Yes, good suggestion. That will help and I think you'll be good. It does not look too bad to me.


----------



## zenlisten

Thank you guys! You have upgraded my headphone stand!


----------



## ken6217 (Jan 29, 2021)

I purchased these off Amazon after seeing someone else post them last year. Sold individually. Purchased two. Rubber cushion where the frame sits.


----------



## cjarrett

ken6217 said:


> I purchased these off Amazon after seeing someone else post them last year. Sold individually. Purchased two. Rubber cushion where the frame sits.


Do you have a link or name of the manufacturer?  My brother is looking for something exactly like that.


----------



## canfabulous (Jan 29, 2021)

Hi All, I'm close to purchasing a 1266 (been very fortunate to have a demo pair on-loan for a while), but should we be expecting an updated model in the near future?   The development and release cycle does seem quite active; and new models always come; but was curious about whether anything was planned imminently.  Thanks.


----------



## MatW

canfabulous said:


> Hi All, I'm close to purchasing a 1266 (been very fortunate to have a demo pair on-loan for a while), but should we be expecting an updated model in the near future?   The development and release cycle does seem quite active; and new models always come; but was curious about whether anything was planned imminently.  Thanks.


No, I believe they stated recently in one of their Youtube videos that they've got their hands full producing what they're currently offering, with the pandemic driving demand. A closed-back headphone is probably the most active R&D effort at the moment.


----------



## ken6217

cjarrett said:


> Do you have a link or name of the manufacturer?  My brother is looking for something exactly like that.



https://www.amazon.com/Foldable-Hea...hones-Universal/dp/B07PFV1NQX?ref_=ast_sto_dp


----------



## CreditingKarma

Slim1970 said:


> Still undecided on which R2R DAC I want to get. The Sonnet Morpheus, Rockna Wavelight or Holo Audio May KTE as an alternate sound to my TT2/HMS. Help me choose


 Buy a dCS Bartok and never look back. Hope all is well slim.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Today is a sad day. I am packing up my AB-1266 Phi TC to go to it's new owner. The Abyss is incredible and has send me on a wild journey of upgrades in both my headphone and two channels system. With that said after moving and having a space to really enjoy my speakers the Abyss was only used a few times in the past 5 months. I figured that they should go somewhere they will be used on a more regular basis. Plus I need to pay for the new Octave MRE220 Mono Blocks that I just purchased. I still have my Clears and Khans so I am not totally out of head-fi but once you go to a great two channel system it is hard to go back to even the Abyss. 

Joe and the family make incredible gear and the fact that to get to the same level with speakers it has cost well above $70k speaks volumes to the value of the 1266.


----------



## Slim1970

CreditingKarma said:


> Buy a dCS Bartok and never look back. Hope all is well slim.


Ha, would love one. I guess if I sold a good number of items I could get a dCS Bartok. I’m not quite ready to make that move just yet . Other than that I’m doing well my friend!


----------



## CreditingKarma

Slim1970 said:


> Ha, would love one. I guess if I sold a good number of items I could get a dCS Bartok. I’m not quite ready to make that move just yet . Other than that I’m doing well my friend!


I sold some of my gear to upgrade the speaker system.


----------



## Frankie D

CreditingKarma said:


> I sold some of my gear to upgrade the speaker system.


Can the Bartok drive the 1266 in its own?


----------



## CreditingKarma

Frankie D said:


> Can the Bartok drive the 1266 in its own?


It can but I had the Formula S and powerman which were better.


----------



## Frankie D

CreditingKarma said:


> It can but I had the Formula S and powerman which were better.


Okay, which is what Abyss recommends.  Is it possible to have the Bartok feed the Formula S and also be connected to the preamp of my 2-channel system?  Double duty, so one Dac for both?  Tks.


----------



## CreditingKarma

Frankie D said:


> Okay, which is what Abyss recommends.  Is it possible to have the Bartok feed the Formula S and also be connected to the preamp of my 2-channel system?  Double duty, so one Dac for both?  Tks.


I did this for a year. I would feed the formula s with the rca and balanced went to my integrated.

I just switched to mono blocks and use the Bartok as the pre. I need both outputs one pai feeds the subs and the other feeds the amps.


----------



## Frankie D

CreditingKarma said:


> I did this for a year. I would feed the formula s with the rca and balanced went to my integrated.
> 
> I just switched to mono blocks and use the Bartok as the pre. I need both outputs one pai feeds the subs and the other feeds the amps.


Tks. How do you feed the Formula S then if both outputs are used for your stereo?


----------



## CreditingKarma

Frankie D said:


> Tks. How do you feed the Formula S then if both outputs are used for your stereo?



I just finished packing up my abyss and the formula s stack. I sold them to fund the pIr of Octave MRE 220 mono blocks I bought for my speaker system. As good as the abyss is I just find myself enjoying the speakers more often.


----------



## rangerid (Jan 29, 2021)

Thinking of getting the 1266 so been looking at some reviews. I mainly want soundstage and bass, I am a massive basshead. Most reviews I've read & watched seems to say they are good for those then I just saw this one that says the Arya and Susvara has bigger soundstage than the 1266. His impressions of the bass also didn't align with what most other reviews I read are saying. This particular review seems to be an anomaly and not very accurate?


----------



## ra990

rangerid said:


> Thinking of getting the 1266 so been looking at some reviews. I mainly want soundstage and bass, I am a massive basshead. Most reviews I've read & watched seems to say they are good for those then I just saw this one that says the Arya and Susvara has bigger soundstage than the 1266. His impressions of the bass also didn't align with what most other reviews I read are saying. This particular review seems to be an anomaly and not very accurate?



I think most here would disagree with that strongly. There is no way the Arya (or Susvara) have a _bigger _stage than 1266, I'm speaking from personal experience. I think 1266 has the biggest stage of all the phones I've heard (see my signature). Bass wise, it's arguable - I think the Abyss bass is more fun and impactful, but the Susvara might edge it in terms of accuracy. Arya...I didn't find to be anything special. It was too shouty and bright for me so I didn't even consider how the bass sounded. I knew right away it was going to be a problem for me.


----------



## InstantSilence

Anyone tried the artic cables for the abyss? Looking at solutions to tame the treble... I'm half there by switching from the curious cable to the lush 2 cable. Not just need to rid of this stock jds cable. I hear the copper cables have a usual character of smoothing out treble and overall peaks. 
Who else makes bad ass copper based cables with latest tech?


----------



## rangerid

ra990 said:


> I think most here would disagree with that strongly. There is no way the Arya (or Susvara) have a _bigger _stage than 1266, I'm speaking from personal experience. I think 1266 has the biggest stage of all the phones I've heard (see my signature). Bass wise, it's arguable - I think the Abyss bass is more fun and impactful, but the Susvara might edge it in terms of accuracy. Arya...I didn't find to be anything special. It was too shouty and bright for me so I didn't even consider how the bass sounded. I knew right away it was going to be a problem for me.



Okay, I was thinking the same. Susvara's soundstage is good but like not super wide or anything. You find soundstage better than 800S? More impactful and fun bass would be good, I find the Susvara's bass lacking dynamic slam and impact unless I EQ it like crazy.


----------



## JLoud

InstantSilence said:


> Anyone tried the artic cables for the abyss? Looking at solutions to tame the treble... I'm half there by switching from the curious cable to the lush 2 cable. Not just need to rid of this stock jds cable. I hear the copper cables have a usual character of smoothing out treble and overall peaks.
> Who else makes bad ass copper based cables with latest tech?


Norne Audio has a new Drausk 17.7 gauge copper Litz cable that is getting great reviews. Check out the Norne Audio forum.


----------



## TDinCali

I have the Arya and the 1266TC and the 1266 definitely has more bass (deeper and more impact). Even my Diana V2 has more bass than the Arya. That being said I like the Arya alot. The soundstage is VERY good.


----------



## Frankie D

CreditingKarma said:


> I just finished packing up my abyss and the formula s stack. I sold them to fund the pIr of Octave MRE 220 mono blocks I bought for my speaker system. As good as the abyss is I just find myself enjoying the speakers more often.


I am sorry, I thought you still had it.  Yes, I agree, 2-Channel at the top level is still the best.  And Octave makes some nice stuff.  I heard a pair a number of years ago driving Magico Q3’s.  Enjoy!


----------



## MatW

rangerid said:


> Thinking of getting the 1266 so been looking at some reviews. I mainly want soundstage and bass, I am a massive basshead. Most reviews I've read & watched seems to say they are good for those then I just saw this one that says the Arya and Susvara has bigger soundstage than the 1266. His impressions of the bass also didn't align with what most other reviews I read are saying. This particular review seems to be an anomaly and not very accurate?



Indeed, I find myself often disagreeing with this reviewer. Try to audition the 1266. It's crazy good, I would be very surprised if you were disappointed. But it happens... There was someone here recently who did not like it and sold it again very quickly. But that is very rare I think.


----------



## canfabulous

Frankie D said:


> Okay, which is what Abyss recommends.  Is it possible to have the Bartok feed the Formula S and also be connected to the preamp of my 2-channel system?  Double duty, so one Dac for both?  Tks.



Yes, you get a set of RCA and XLR outs, so you’d need to pick the appropriate Formula S version.

The Bartok can drive the 1266 effectively though - it’s a lovely pairing, in my subjective opinion.


----------



## sa11297

I recently purchased a tc and formula s + powerman. Naturally, I was thinking of finishing the trifecta with a sagra dac, but was wondering if anyone had other recommendations in the same price range. Until I do upgrade dacs, I will be using the soekris 1541, so feel free to comment on that pairing as well. Thanks!


----------



## simorag

*An orchestral tour-de-force with the Abyss*

One my most deeply rooted musical passions are large orchestral compositions, because I feel that they provide a _complete_, holistic experience, where the mind, the soul and the body are involved at the highest and more direct, visceral level.

I still use to attend live concerts (pandemics allowing), although much less than in my younger age alas, and in this sense going back to a hifi system is always a humbling experience to some extent, and one would argue that this is even more the case with headphones, which is of course true, but ...

There are some very special recordings that – thanks to the combination of the music itself, inspired musicians, and especially talented recording engineers – are able to capture the sense of the event, its scale, its venue in such a magical way that makes it possible to travel time and space so to speak, and therefore should be treasured as the most precious jewels.








Mercury Living Presence and RCA Victor Living Stereo series, while dating several decades back and not as silent and polished as modern audiophile recordings, do provide that feeling of liveliness and ... presence to the music that grabs me in a very visceral, immediate way. Soundstage is usually very wide and deep, and the unfiltered background / ambient noise from the venue actually provides an added value to the realism of the experience.

The AB-1266 reproduces the scale of these recordings and their rawness in a surprisingly convincing way, for a headphone, like no other system I have tried.




The Mahler symphonies series with Vänskä / Minnesota for BIS (as the one with Fischer for Channel Classics) are among the most transparent, tonally rich large orchestral recent recording cycles.

Here, the impressive dynamics of the recording is made even more challenging by the complex, massed passages where all the orchestra (and the chorus!) play together, which is difficult for a hifi system to render without collapsing into a confused, strained sound. The Abyss – of course supported by the DAVE and the AIC-10 – follows these relentless dynamics swings with ease, keeping a seemingly effortless readability to the music and a volume of air around the music which lets you fully release and surrender to the tsunami of sounds.







But, if you really want an adrenalin overdose, you can always rely on the outstanding Reference Recordings series with Eiji Oue and the Minnesota Orchestra. These are transparent, huge sounding, crazy imaging, bass cannons recordings, with little to no compression, where the AB-1266 conveys the dynamics slam, the physical impact of the deepest bass drum octaves and the shock waves of the tympani in a fashion that makes your upper body shake, as unreal as it may seem.

An orchestral, emotional tour-de-force indeed!


----------



## FLTWS

I've got all those, LOL and had the LP's as well on the Merc's and RCA's back when. I'd suspect our classical collections look very similar. I've been filling out that BIS Mahler series, pre-ordered the 10th. I think #3 and #9 will complete for me. (I've got enough #8's and is my least fav so...). Reference Recordings are generally superior in sound and unlike most classical recordings attempt to provide a more natural presentation of a "seated in the hall" perspective as opposed to "from the podium".


----------



## vonBaron

Sometimes the 1266 are very hard to listen to (depends on my mood), now they are too shouty, the bass is fading somewhere ...


----------



## bagofolives

vonBaron said:


> Sometimes the 1266 are very hard to listen to (depends on my mood), now they are too shouty, the bass is fading somewhere ...


I have similar experiences listening to 1266 with my GS-X mini. I generally don't get the experience on my Tryst.


----------



## vonBaron

It was poor recording fault, now is great


----------



## paradoxper

vonBaron said:


> It was poor recording fault, now is great


You cray.


----------



## Roasty

Yesterday I dug this out from my drawer.. AMB labs Gamma2 dac. RCA out to Milo Reference and then TC Phi. Lol... Power and data through a cheap USB mini cord. Well.. I just have to say maybe I just really don't have golden ears because I'm actually really enjoying this little thing! Not bad for a really low cost 15 year old dac that hasn't been used for over a decade.. 

So far everything I've played through it onto the TC Phi sounds so good. Nice mids and low end. And I have no idea how it measures (lol) and I really don't care.


----------



## vonBaron

If you want to give Wavelight i can take it


----------



## jlbrach

bad recordings can make even the very best audio equipment sound horrible....yes horrible...when one auditions any equipment especially HP's the source has to be taken into consideration....listening to some terrible 80's recording etc with the abyss TC or any other TOTL product is foolish and incredibly I have seen or heard of people ready to plunk down tons of money for such gear suggesting the gear is no good after listening to abominable recordings...always amazes me


----------



## InstantSilence (Jan 30, 2021)

Meh, delete


----------



## attmci

jlbrach said:


> bad recordings can make even the very best audio equipment sound horrible....yes horrible...when one auditions any equipment especially HP's the source has to be taken into consideration....listening to some terrible 80's recording etc with the abyss TC or any other TOTL product is foolish and incredibly I have seen or heard of people ready to plunk down tons of money for such gear suggesting the gear is no good after listening to abominable recordings...always amazes me


Yap. Garbage in, garbage out.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

attmci said:


> Yap. Garbage in, garbage out.


The tc, Utopia etc. are merciless in exposing bad recordings. The best headphone to listen to crappy mp3 files and badly recorded stuff is the Empy, it somehow manages to cover up the deficits. That is its powerful secret weapon (comes with a price, thou).


----------



## qboogie

Anyone know where I can find the 1266 dimensions with the headband not extended at all?  I'm not near my pair right now and I'm trying to figure out which protective travel case to buy.


----------



## Frankie D

Hoegaardener70 said:


> The tc, Utopia etc. are merciless in exposing bad recordings. The best headphone to listen to crappy mp3 files and badly recorded stuff is the Empy, it somehow manages to cover up the deficits. That is its powerful secret weapon (comes with a price, thou).


It does not do that as much as you think though. It is still a revealing HP.  With a really bad recording you still will not like it.  It can smooth the treble a bit, but if just too bright, you will still not like the vocals.  For that you would a much more colored HP.


----------



## jlbrach

Hoegaardener70 said:


> The tc, Utopia etc. are merciless in exposing bad recordings. The best headphone to listen to crappy mp3 files and badly recorded stuff is the Empy, it somehow manages to cover up the deficits. That is its powerful secret weapon (comes with a price, thou).


at the expense of not sounding nearly as good with well recorded music although if all you want Is something that will sound ok with mp3's you can do it for a lot less money...go get yourself a pair of beats or maybe apple max!


----------



## Hoegaardener70

jlbrach said:


> at the expense of not sounding nearly as good with well recorded music although if all you want Is something that will sound ok with mp3's you can do it for a lot less money...go get yourself a pair of beats or maybe apple max!



That's a bit harsh, I think...


----------



## jlbrach

it is not, we are speaking of listening to mp3...why would you spend 3k to listen to mps


----------



## spacelion2077 (Jan 31, 2021)

Has anyone tried to pair with the new SMSL SP400 amp? It outs 12w per channel at 16 olm


----------



## bagofolives

Whelp O-ring snapped on my older headband and next estimated delivery date for new headbands is Feb 28th.  Any recommendations for temp fixes while I try to rig one up myself?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

bagofolives said:


> Whelp O-ring snapped on my older headband and next estimated delivery date for new headbands is Feb 28th.  Any recommendations for temp fixes while I try to rig one up myself?



Any cable binder will do. There is a wide range on Amazon.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

Email us...



bagofolives said:


> Whelp O-ring snapped on my older headband and next estimated delivery date for new headbands is Feb 28th.  Any recommendations for temp fixes while I try to rig one up myself?


----------



## bagofolives (Jan 31, 2021)

I did send an email, but scrounging around for a temp fix.  A couple pieces of fabric, snap on fasteners and o-rings and it’s not the worst thing.  Definitely not as nice as a stock headband, but it’s nicer than rolling up a hand towel like I saw someone else use when there’s broke and were waiting for a replacement.


----------



## ken6217

[I guess you could try some half-inch or three-quarter inch Velcro strips and make a loop out of it. You’ll have to experiment with the length to get the proper height of the head band since there will be no real stretch.


----------



## ken6217

ken6217 said:


> [I guess you could try some half-inch or three-quarter inch Velcro strips and make a loop out of it. You’ll have to experiment with the length to get the proper height of the head band since there will be no real stretch.



Forget that suggestion. I just realized there’s no place to connect it to the frame.


----------



## jlbrach

bagofolives said:


> I did send an email, but scrounging around for a temp fix.  A couple pieces of fabric, snap on fasteners and o-rings and it’s not the worst thing.  Definitely not as nice as a stock headband, but it’s nicer than rolling up a hand towel like I saw someone else use when there’s broke and were waiting for a replacement.


wow, quite innovative...calling an audible


----------



## bagofolives

ken6217 said:


> Forget that suggestion. I just realized there’s no place to connect it to the frame.


I did almost use velcro instead of fasteners but I was concerned instead that it wouldn't be able to hold the tension of the o-rings.  The velcro I had on hand was some weaker stuff and pretty scratchy too so I decided against it.


----------



## RobinTim

So I am considering joining the TC family in a few weeks or so. To those who are connecting the balanced stock or superconductor cable: What adapter do you use to connect it to the back of the TT2? A few kind head-fi members have already offered their suggestions (thanks to @simorag in particular). A custom adapter from DHC on the basis of a custom Prion4 cable design was mentioned as well as an adapter based on their Noir HPC Cable from Forza Audio Works.

I really appreciate all input.


----------



## InstantSilence (Jan 31, 2021)

Gonna try the rad0.
I'm hoping for 80% of TCs resolution with a far smoother signature to fix my sensitivity issue to treble 

Cooper cable coming for TC to see if it smooths out one last time as a usb cable sure did smoothed out about half. I'm close by. 

Can't keep both, 1 gotta go. 




RobinTim said:


> So I am considering joining the TC family in a few weeks or so. To those who are connecting the balanced stock or superconductor cable: What adapter do you use to connect it to the back of the TT2? A few kind head-fi members have already offered their suggestions (thanks to @simorag in particular). A custom adapter from DHC on the basis of a custom Prion4 cable design was mentioned as well as an adapter based on their Noir HPC Cable from Forza Audio Works.
> 
> I really appreciate all input.


Lqi has one on ebay.
Norne audio s4 Silvergarde, with a far longer wait


----------



## vonBaron

LOL good luck! RAD-0 are nowhere near TC.


----------



## InstantSilence

vonBaron said:


> LOL good luck! RAD-0 are nowhere near TC.


Doesn't have to be, I'm looking for the character I'm looking for. TC a little too bright for me. After talking to quite a lot of experienced users, they advised a better amp would fix most of it, but part of its character is that treble so it won't ever be entirely away. That's fine, hopefully these cables would make it tolerable for me, I wish I could keep both.


----------



## Sage Encore

Roasty said:


> Yesterday I dug this out from my drawer.. AMB labs Gamma2 dac. RCA out to Milo Reference and then TC Phi. Lol... Power and data through a cheap USB mini cord. Well.. I just have to say maybe I just really don't have golden ears because I'm actually really enjoying this little thing! Not bad for a really low cost 15 year old dac that hasn't been used for over a decade..
> 
> So far everything I've played through it onto the TC Phi sounds so good. Nice mids and low end. And I have no idea how it measures (lol) and I really don't care.


Like the comment about about how you don't care how it measures. I'm like that too, not really interested in measurements. My ears are my measuring tool. LOL.


----------



## olle83

I'd like to see a properly measured frequency response of the TC.
Has anyone done that or can someone do it?


----------



## ken6217 (Feb 1, 2021)

Sage Encore said:


> Like the comment about about how you don't care how it measures. I'm like that too, not really interested in measurements. My ears are my measuring tool. LOL.



Exactly. 100%

You’ll never be able to tell if you’re going to like how it sounds by just looking at measurements on the page.

As an example, years ago I was looking for new speakers. I heard great things about the Revel Salon 2. They were $20,000 a pair, and were speaker of the year for Stereophile magazine. They said these speakers tested better than any speaker they’ve tested. So I drove into Manhattan with a check, prepared to buy them. The salesman set me up in a room with the speakers, and I put on a few songs. I though they sounded horrible. The absolute opposite of musical. I left without buying obviously.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Feb 1, 2021)

However, it is sometimes hard to go against the tide in reverse, I mean when you like something and nobody else. I have a friend who loves the Sonorous X, and he might be one of the only three on the planet. I think he will at one point sell since everybody and anybody tells him how terrible it looks and sounds. Pressure .

Or me with the Empy, haha. Only joking. Some love it ... but definitely not all.


----------



## stemiki

bagofolives said:


> Whelp O-ring snapped on my older headband and next estimated delivery date for new headbands is Feb 28th.  Any recommendations for temp fixes while I try to rig one up myself?


If it helps, while you wait for the new band, I used this method. Post 12.531:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-836#post-15935153


----------



## TheMiddleSky

InstantSilence said:


> Doesn't have to be, I'm looking for the character I'm looking for. TC a little too bright for me. After talking to quite a lot of experienced users, they advised a better amp would fix most of it, but part of its character is that treble so it won't ever be entirely away. That's fine, hopefully these cables would make it tolerable for me, I wish I could keep both.



What kinds of songs, or which artist that you like that sounds too sharp on TC?


----------



## InstantSilence

TheMiddleSky said:


> What kinds of songs, or which artist that you like that sounds too sharp on TC?


Most Tidal /roon electronic music  gets a little sharp at times I'd say 70% of the genre, for me.


----------



## ken6217

TheMiddleSky said:


> What kinds of songs, or which artist that you like that sounds too sharp on TC?



It’s not as much the song or artist, as it is the recording itself. Go on Tidal or Qobuz and you may see the same album a few times, and they all sound different. Some better or worse than the others.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

InstantSilence said:


> Most Tidal /roon electronic music  gets a little sharp at times I'd say 70% of the genre, for me.



Any more specific details, like title/album or name of the musician?



ken6217 said:


> It’s not as much the song or artist, as it is the recording itself. Go on Tidal or Qobuz and you may see the same album a few times, and they all sound different. Some better or worse than the others.



True, but it's still easier to understand his reference if we know what he listen to.


----------



## InstantSilence

TheMiddleSky said:


> Any more specific details, like title/album or name of the musician?
> 
> 
> 
> True, but it's still easier to understand his reference if we know what he listen to.


Well I don't have anything quite in mind. 
I usually listen to various albums, this is how I discover new tracks I like. So out of any 7 tracks in the electronic department will be too punchy up top for me. Requiring to fiddle with the fit on my head to tame the top (pushing the ears as far back in the cups as they go, at a pretty significant loss of resolution) or skip thr track all together to avoid fatigue. If I don't... În about 45 Mins I have to stop my sessions as my ears are shot as far as treble and shoutyness goes. 
From time to time I listen to some jazz, some classic rock, you know (some *real* music) and good recordings are a blessing on this TC, not a shrill, or Bite in sight. It's a wonder. 
Sometimes I'll come across good recordings in electronica and it's a joy to hear the expert layering of the TC
It is what it is. I'm hoping the copper cable will take it (the lush 2 usb cable from pc to dac sure helped a lot) maybe this copper cable is gonna be better add on too, (headphone cable) 

The poor can only keep 1. The rad0 (or other smooth cans) or the TC

It is what is. One thing is for sure. 
Regarless, of a sale or a new cable 
I'm so so glad that my days with the garbage stock Jps labs cable are numbered


----------



## ra990

@InstantSilence Have you considered a bit of EQ? I know a pure copper, low capacitance cable will help tame the highs, like the Dana Lazuli cable, but I think you're right - you might be looking for something warm and the TC is not a warm headphone, it's clear and transparent, which can be a bit much if you prefer a warmer signature. I think a bit of EQ to your taste would be the only good solution that doesn't involve you spending a lot more for very minor changes to the sound signature. I'm not into EQ, so I can't help with the settings, but I'm sure someone here is EQ'ing their TC to make it a bit warmer and can probably share if you want to try.


----------



## InstantSilence

ra990 said:


> @InstantSilence Have you considered a bit of EQ? I know a pure copper, low capacitance cable will help tame the highs, like the Dana Lazuli cable, but I think you're right - you might be looking for something warm and the TC is not a warm headphone, it's clear and transparent, which can be a bit much if you prefer a warmer signature. I think a bit of EQ to your taste would be the only good solution that doesn't involve you spending a lot more for very minor changes to the sound signature. I'm not into EQ, so I can't help with the settings, but I'm sure someone here is EQ'ing their TC to make it a bit warmer and can probably share if you want to try.


I tried (not knowing what I'm doing or where I should apply it.) 
In roon, by jsut 2db where I felt peaky. But as with most EQ, it degrades overall sound I feel. 
Some, with professional eq programs and knowing what they do probably doesn't experience what I do. 
Its a very resolving can, hell, the transparency, clarity is why I love the thing 
I guess in this day and age, at any budget, 
One cannot have both hyper resolving yet super smooth simultaneously.
The bass... My God. I'm gonna miss this quality bass...


----------



## ra990 (Feb 1, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> I tried (not knowing what I'm doing or where I should apply it.)
> In roon, by jsut 2db where I felt peaky. But as with most EQ, it degrades overall sound I feel.
> Some, with professional eq programs and knowing what they do probably doesn't experience what I do.
> Its a very resolving can, hell, the transparency, clarity is why I love the thing
> ...


Trade it in for a Susvara, very close in terms of technicalities, great quality bass, and a very smooth treble. That's the only can you're going to be happy with after the Abyss...everything else will feel like a downgrade. However, as I have mentioned previously, the easiest to listen to, smoothest (almost subdued treble), and warmest headphones that still deliver top quality midrange and bass that extends lowwww is the DCA Ether 2, imo.


----------



## ken6217

ra990 said:


> Trade it in for a Susvara, very close in terms of technicalities, great quality bass, and a very smooth treble. That's the only can you're going to be happy with after the Abyss...everything else will feel like a downgrade. However, as I have mentioned previously, the easiest to listen to, smoothest (almost subdued treble), and warmest headphones that still deliver top quality midrange and bass that extends lowwww is the Ether 2, imo.



I used to have the Ether Flow, liked them, and then got the Ether 2 when they first came out. I sent them back after 2 weeks as I felt  they where bass lite.


----------



## ra990 (Feb 1, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> I used to have the Ether Flow, liked them, and then got the Ether 2 when they first came out. I sent them back after 2 weeks as I felt  they where bass lite.


Really, that is really surprising. What were you driving them with? I had the Abyss and the Ether 2 at the time and felt like they were nearly as capable in bass. I was really impressed at the texture and resolution that I heard from them from midrange to bass. It felt like it had hair on it, reached out physically, much like the Abyss.

As with all DCA headphones, IMO, they do start out kind of underwhelming, but about 100-200 hours of burn-in, along with the brain burn-in, is when you start hearing what makes them special.


----------



## InstantSilence

ra990 said:


> Trade it in for a Susvara, very close in terms of technicalities, great quality bass, and a very smooth treble. That's the only can you're going to be happy with after the Abyss...everything else will feel like a downgrade. However, as I have mentioned previously, the easiest to listen to, smoothest (almost subdued treble), and warmest headphones that still deliver top quality midrange and bass that extends lowwww is the DCA Ether 2, imo.


I may do the susvara if the rad0 is really far behind in resolution and layering 
It is what it is. It's difficult for me, not having a shop around that has these things to hear
All I need is an hour with like 5 different cans to decide what's right for me. 
Instead it will take months of buying, trading, selling to find out. And even then, can't do AB *test*


----------



## InstantSilence

ra990 said:


> Really, that is really surprising. What were you driving them with? I had the Abyss and the Ether 2 at the time and felt like they were nearly as capable in bass. I was really impressed at the texture and resolution that I heard from them from midrange to bass. It felt like it had hair on it, reached out physically, much like the Abyss.


Wow I'm surprized you compare that ether 2 bass with tc, about a year back I spent a few tracks with the ether 2 and wasn't impressed. I think Mr speakers brand blows... I had the C flow 1.1 and that thing was poo too. 
But... Ether 2 and abyss... When it comes to bass? Whaaaaa? 
Im starting to think your TC is not well seated, correctly seated when you wear it. 
Soemthing is awfully off.. I'm sorry you're missing out on sublime TC this whole time.


----------



## ra990

InstantSilence said:


> I may do the susvara if the rad0 is really far behind in resolution and layering
> It is what it is. It's difficult for me, not having a shop around that has these things to hear
> All I need is an hour with like 5 different cans to decide what's right for me.
> Instead it will take months of buying, trading, selling to find out. And even then, can't do AB *test*


That sounds like fun, enjoy going through all those different headphones. You'll get personal experience with what makes each one interesting. Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## InstantSilence

ra990 said:


> That sounds like fun, enjoy going through all those different headphones. You'll get personal experience with what makes each one interesting. Looking forward to your impressions.


Meh, I rather not to be honest. 
Just wanna enjoy some tunes and log off here for a while hah


----------



## ra990

InstantSilence said:


> Wow I'm surprized you compare that ether 2 bass with tc, about a year back I spent a few tracks with the ether 2 and wasn't impressed. I think Mr speakers brand blows... I had the C flow 1.1 and that thing was poo too.
> But... Ether 2 and abyss... When it comes to bass? Whaaaaa?
> Im starting to think your TC is not well seated, correctly seated when you wear it.
> Soemthing is awfully off.. I'm sorry you're missing out on sublime TC this whole time.


Funny, if you were to ask me top three headphones in terms of bass quality, I would have no doubt in my mind...Abyss, Susvara, Ether 2. If you only spent a few tracks with them, you didn't hear them really. As I mentioned, you need some time with the Ether 2 to appreciate them. I totally get when people put them on and aren't immediately impressed. They take a certain amount of acclimation and then when you hear what they do, you look for it in other headphones and are frequently disappointed. They're one of my favorites and very underrated, or maybe I just had a magical pair.


----------



## genefruit

InstantSilence said:


> I tried (not knowing what I'm doing or where I should apply it.)
> In roon, by jsut 2db where I felt peaky. But as with most EQ, it degrades overall sound I feel.
> Some, with professional eq programs and knowing what they do probably doesn't experience what I do.
> Its a very resolving can, hell, the transparency, clarity is why I love the thing
> ...


Go here - https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/Au...arman_over-ear_2018/Abyss AB-1266 Phi CC Lite

Try some/all of these in Roon - https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/Au...2018/Abyss AB-1266 Phi CC Lite#parametric-eqs

Or use the convolution engine in Roon.  Download these two files referenced below from the first URL and zip them up.  Then open the convolution engine in Roon and point to the zipped file.

Don't do both at the same time, as it will double up the correction.  Good luck. 

Abyss AB-1266 Phi CC Lite minimum phase 44100Hz.wav
Recomputed all results with the new limited slope equalization.
15 days ago

Abyss AB-1266 Phi CC Lite minimum phase 48000Hz.wav
Recomputed all results with the new limited slope equalization.
15 days ago


----------



## InstantSilence

genefruit said:


> Go here - https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/crinacle/ears-711_harman_over-ear_2018/Abyss AB-1266 Phi CC Lite
> 
> Try some/all of these in Roon - https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/crinacle/ears-711_harman_over-ear_2018/Abyss AB-1266 Phi CC Lite#parametric-eqs
> 
> ...


I tried those first 2 links prior. Those were actually the eq I tried. 
Never tried thr convulsion, on it! Thanks so much


----------



## vonBaron

For me HP on the same lvl as 1266 are only Susvara for now but i didn't listen some other hi-end HP like top Stax or RAAL etc...


----------



## genefruit

InstantSilence said:


> I tried those first 2 links prior. Those were actually the eq I tried.
> Never tried thr convulsion, on it! Thanks so much


IMO, the EQ settings are way off but what do I know; I only have my ears to make happy and not a frequency plot.  With that said, you could work the those frequencies in the mids and higher and lower them to taste.

What worked best for me was X-PHD=2 and Filter-2 on the Hugo TT2.  That's with a M-Scaler feeding it.


----------



## ken6217

ra990 said:


> Really, that is really surprising. What were you driving them with? I had the Abyss and the Ether 2 at the time and felt like they were nearly as capable in bass. I was really impressed at the texture and resolution that I heard from them from midrange to bass. It felt like it had hair on it, reached out physically, much like the Abyss.
> 
> As with all DCA headphones, IMO, they do start out kind of underwhelming, but about 100-200 hours of burn-in, along with the brain burn-in, is when you start hearing what makes them special.



Violectric V281. Plenty of bass from that amp.


----------



## vonBaron

For me, the biggest problem in 1266 was always the bass balance, I always had more bass in the right earphone, playing with the pads, headband spacing or tilt only made it worse. It turned out that I had to bend the left earpiece so that I had more space around my ear.


----------



## ra990

vonBaron said:


> For me, the biggest problem in 1266 was always the bass balance, I always had more bass in the right earphone, playing with the pads, headband spacing or tilt only made it worse. It turned out that I had to bend the left earpiece so that I had more space around my ear.


Agree, fit is the biggest issue with the headphone and has such a huge impact on the low end.


----------



## vonBaron

1266 are definitely not user-friendly.


----------



## InstantSilence

vonBaron said:


> 1266 are definitely not user-friendly.


Especially with that horrible Jps labs stock cable


----------



## Ciggavelli

InstantSilence said:


> Especially with that horrible Jps labs stock cable


Well, just buy the SC 



Spoiler



jk...Long running joke in here


----------



## vonBaron

Or Lazuri Ultra, but it is garden horse


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> Or Lazuri Ultra, but it is garden horse



The get the pony size.


----------



## genefruit

InstantSilence said:


> Especially with that horrible Jps labs stock cable


To manage the cables, I use this from Amazon

Alex Tech 10ft - 1/4 inch Cord Protector Wire Loom Tubing Cable Sleeve Split Sleeving For USB Cable Power Cord Audio Video Cable

Cut to desired length, place cables together inside, use some Super 33 tape on the ends to keep from fraying.  Works well for me.


----------



## InstantSilence (Feb 1, 2021)

genefruit said:


> To manage the cables, I use this from Amazon
> 
> Alex Tech 10ft - 1/4 inch Cord Protector Wire Loom Tubing Cable Sleeve Split Sleeving For USB Cable Power Cord Audio Video Cable
> 
> Cut to desired length, place cables together inside, use some Super 33 tape on the ends to keep from fraying.  Works well for me.


Hey that's a cool workaround, but I don't think this stock cable is worth any effort. I'm definitely replacing it.
Never heard the famed SC, but I'm not a fan of anything Jps labs. I've had some other interconnects and found them inferior sounding.
But this TC cable is so hard to work with. Moving it around and managing, it's like swatting a schit fly that won't go away. I'm glad to move on from the cable at least.

But that's a cool sleeve thing I guess.. I don't see how it would make it easier and more flexible.


----------



## genefruit

InstantSilence said:


> Hey that's a cool workaround, but I don't think this stock cable is worth any effort. I'm definitely replacing it.
> Never heard the famed SC, but I'm not a fan of anything Jps labs. I've had some other interconnects and found them inferior sounding.
> But this TC cable is so hard to work with. Moving it around and managing, it's like swatting a schit fly that won't go away. I'm glad to move on from the cable at least.
> 
> But that's a cool sleeve thing I guess.. I don't see how it would make it easier and more flexible.


I didn't care for the two distinct cables and this solved the issue for me.  Nothing is going to make it more flexible, it's the nature of the cable.


----------



## InstantSilence

Well Genefruit gave me a few files of convolution eq to mess with in roon and Wow. It pretty much fixed the issue for me. It does appear that sibilance in some of the treble is more pronounce but it doesn't bother me. This is game changing for me.
Anyone know of a collection of these files I can try out and find the *best* one?

Wow!

Thanks a lot genefruit!


----------



## ufospls2

InstantSilence said:


> Well Genefruit gave me a few files of convolution eq to mess with in roon and Wow. It pretty much fixed the issue for me. It does appear that sibilance in some of the treble is more pronounce but it doesn't bother me. This is game changing for me.
> Anyone know of a collection of these files I can try out and find the *best* one?
> 
> Wow!
> ...



Awesome!


----------



## jlbrach

Sage Encore said:


> Like the comment about about how you don't care how it measures. I'm like that too, not really interested in measurements. My ears are my measuring tool. LOL.


I second that....


----------



## jlbrach

InstantSilence said:


> Wow I'm surprized you compare that ether 2 bass with tc, about a year back I spent a few tracks with the ether 2 and wasn't impressed. I think Mr speakers brand blows... I had the C flow 1.1 and that thing was poo too.
> But... Ether 2 and abyss... When it comes to bass? Whaaaaa?
> Im starting to think your TC is not well seated, correctly seated when you wear it.
> Soemthing is awfully off.. I'm sorry you're missing out on sublime TC this whole time.


sounds like this gentleman is much better off not dropping 5K on what is one of the 2 or best HP's available


----------



## jlbrach (Feb 1, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> Especially with that horrible Jps labs stock cable


as far as stock cables go the abyss tc is the best I have owned....


----------



## JLoud

Sound wise I think it is very good. Ergonomically, that's another matter all together.


----------



## ken6217

InstantSilence said:


> Wow I'm surprized you compare that ether 2 bass with tc, about a year back I spent a few tracks with the ether 2 and wasn't impressed. I think Mr speakers brand blows... I had the C flow 1.1 and that thing was poo too.
> But... Ether 2 and abyss... When it comes to bass? Whaaaaa?
> Im starting to think your TC is not well seated, correctly seated when you wear it.
> Soemthing is awfully off.. I'm sorry you're missing out on sublime TC this whole time.



The Ether 2 has good bass if you compare it to the HD800.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

Hello folks,

I recently placed an order for 1266 TC. Just wondering, how long did you guys have to wait for them to build and ship the headphones to you ?


----------



## ra990 (Feb 2, 2021)

PortableAudioLover said:


> Hello folks,
> 
> I recently placed an order for 1266 TC. Just wondering, how long did you guys have to wait for them to build and ship the headphones to you ?


Might be longer due to COVID.


----------



## ken6217

PortableAudioLover said:


> Hello folks,
> 
> I recently placed an order for 1266 TC. Just wondering, how long did you guys have to wait for them to build and ship the headphones to you ?



Email them. They would know better than anyone.


----------



## kamlam

Well I recently ordered mine through THX STEREO, who I highly recommend, and they were here in less than a week!


----------



## cjarrett (Feb 2, 2021)

PortableAudioLover said:


> Hello folks,
> 
> I recently placed an order for 1266 TC. Just wondering, how long did you guys have to wait for them to build and ship the headphones to you ?


I received mine within two weeks.  This was shortly before christmas.  You can check my post history in this thread, I think I posted a day or so after I ordered and updated when I got them.  I imagine they have stock on-hand and build when it runs low.  They shipped quickly.


----------



## F208Frank

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-...conductor-4-and-jps-usb-digital-cable.953452/

^an absolute steal for anyone wanting JPS Cables to pair with their Abyss TC 1266!


----------



## qboogie

F208Frank said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-...conductor-4-and-jps-usb-digital-cable.953452/
> 
> ^an absolute steal for anyone wanting JPS Cables to pair with their Abyss TC 1266!


Those are the interconnects, not the headphone cable


----------



## Litlgi74

My eight year old got his first pair of Abyss headphones... He couldn't wait to show me... He said "They must not be as good as yours Dad... They are much lighter."


----------



## qboogie

Litlgi74 said:


> My eight year old got his first pair of Abyss headphones... He couldn't wait to show me... He said "They must not be as good as yours Dad... They are much lighter."


How's the warranty on those?


----------



## vonBaron

1266 + Niimbus amp is god made synergy, im absolutely blown away!


----------



## ken6217

qboogie said:


> How's the warranty on those?



The O-rings might be a choking hazard


----------



## spacelion2077

Is SPL Phonitor XE good enough to drive ab 1266 TC? Thinking about upgrading my Topping A90.


----------



## weebull

spacelion2077 said:


> Is SPL Phonitor XE good enough to drive ab 1266 TC? Thinking about upgrading my Topping A90.


Hi, 
yes its good enough. I've used it for about a year with my TC and to me it sounded better than my V281. 

I've now moved on to Formula S + Powerman and feel this is a further step up, I think I am done with chasing for a while at least 

On the other hand I just got my new model headband and WOW!. On my head it makes the 1266 actually confortable and I feel it's finally sitting right! A pity on the new logo however!


----------



## InstantSilence

Does the Wells audio Milo warm up the highs and smooth it out?


----------



## vonBaron

Yes, it does.


----------



## tholt

weebull said:


> A pity on the new logo however!


Agreed. Bring back the old heavy metal style logo. So much cooler


----------



## PortableAudioLover

weebull said:


> Hi,
> yes its good enough. I've used it for about a year with my TC and to me it sounded better than my V281.
> 
> I've now moved on to Formula S + Powerman and feel this is a further step up, I think I am done with chasing for a while at least
> ...


what headband did you get ?


----------



## weebull

PortableAudioLover said:


> what headband did you get ?



there is an updated model with more padding and surface plus replaceable orings on abyss website. Price is crazy but I’ve had to replace the original one twice because of orings getting old so it should be a good investment


----------



## bagofolives (Feb 2, 2021)

Also just got in a replacement headband. One thing the website doesn’t show in the pictures is that it’s more plush and wider while being the same length.  It also seems they included smaller o-rings than what was on the older one as well, but mine may have been just that worn not entirely sure.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

bagofolives said:


> Also just got in a replacement headband. One thing the website doesn’t show in the pictures is that it’s more plush and wider while being the same length.  It also seems they included smaller o-rings than what was on the older one as well, but mine may have been just that worn not entirely sure.


Are smaller or bigger o rings more comfortable ? And how many sizes for the orings do you get ?


----------



## Ciggavelli (Feb 2, 2021)

PortableAudioLover said:


> Are smaller or bigger o rings more comfortable ? And how many sizes for the orings do you get ?


You can get a multipack for fairly cheap.  I got this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07GSKKHQM?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

I found that the next size up from the stock o-ring worked the best. No more clamping on my head. But, one of those o-rings broke and I had to replace it. That multipack gives you a ton of o-rings, so no problem there.

I’m not really sure if the Abyss O-rings are a different material or not. But, my stock o-rings never broke with the old headband design. I don’t know why one of the new o-rings broke, but it only happened once so far


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> You can get a multipack for fairly cheap.  I got this:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07GSKKHQM?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
> 
> ...



I bought my TC 14 months ago and still have the original O Rings.


----------



## Litlgi74

ken6217 said:


> I bought my TC 14 months ago and still have the original O Rings.


Same here...but I do enjoy the new headband sooooooo much more. The ear cups are finally off the tops of my ears.


----------



## InstantSilence

PortableAudioLover said:


> Are smaller or bigger o rings more comfortable ? And how many sizes for the orings do you get ?


So it goes on beyond comfort. 
These HPs have the ability to pretty EQ as you move the cups to the different positions as as your ears are placed throughout the cups and the ears positioning matters.... Endless combinations.... 
So the rings allow slack or tightness if needed once you land on your desired soundfit. 
I suggest you get the rings... But first... Find the sound you like most and positions of pads,ears inside pads, xy axis... All of that mess.  You gonna end up getting an associates degree in the TC by the time you are done with it. 
Then, apply the rings to help you maintain tightness (uphead) or slack based on sound preference, and then comfort. 
(ultimately these headphones are OK as comfort goes... The cable is poo as far as comfort goes) 
No one buys the TC for comfort. Only for sound.


Guys,ive found me a de Esser software that can edit my tracks and smooth them with pretty much no downgraded SQ as it's very little processing and just smooths any shouting frequency. 
Great news... Love my TC more than ever. 


Also wondering id the Milo from wells audio would help further smooth out that top end. Snares seem to hit me most and certain lightweight drums. 

While eqing... Ive never landed on my problem frequencies..there is soemthitn I'm missing. But I'm close to bliss here


----------



## bagofolives

PortableAudioLover said:


> Are smaller or bigger o rings more comfortable ? And how many sizes for the orings do you get ?


Smaller o-rings have been working better for me because before they earcups were sitting too low for my preference in all positions other than fully pulled out.  From what I've experience it's really going to be how it sits on your head and if you can adjust it to the point you need to or not.  I'd stick with stock unless you're experiencing issues with the headphones sitting too low compared to your ears.


----------



## ken6217

Litlgi74 said:


> Same here...but I do enjoy the new headband sooooooo much more. The ear cups are finally off the tops of my ears.



I have the new headband as well, but haven’t used it yet.


----------



## Litlgi74

ken6217 said:


> I have the new headband as well, but haven’t used it yet.


You are missing out Ken... It's quite refreshing.


----------



## InstantSilence

For those that had or have the Wells AUDIO Milo 

Does the thing maintain resolution of the Dac and Tc. While smoothing out the highs and less shoutyness?


----------



## jlbrach

I have observed no shoutyness to quote you


----------



## TDinCali

I realize I'm going to sound like a fanboy but I've been listening to my 1266TC with the full X1 Audio stack and it just sounds incredible. The more I listen to it, the more I like it. Usually it's the other way around.


----------



## Bonddam

The amp from Wells to get is the HeadTrip 2 for 1266 TC. You have a very neutral tube like sound. The Milo could tame the highs as it's a warm amp. I have both amps and like the 1266 on the HeadTrip more. For the Solitaire P I like the Reference Milo more as it increase bass pretty close to TC levels. Milo is not dull in the top end or rolled off.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

bagofolives said:


> Smaller o-rings have been working better for me because before they earcups were sitting too low for my preference in all positions other than fully pulled out.  From what I've experience it's really going to be how it sits on your head and if you can adjust it to the point you need to or not.  I'd stick with stock unless you're experiencing issues with the headphones sitting too low compared to your ears.


Thanks ! I see that you have GSX-Mini. Is this enough for 1266 TC ?


----------



## tkam

The GS-X Mini is more than capable of driving the 1266 TC and could easily be an end game amp for someone not able or willing to spend more than $2K on an amp.


----------



## bagofolives

PortableAudioLover said:


> Thanks ! I see that you have GSX-Mini. Is this enough for 1266 TC ?


Mini can power it pretty well, I just find it can get a little too hot in the treble for my taste.  I’ve generally been using my ModWright Tryst to power 1266 while Mini has been on Diana duty.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Hello all. New guy here looking to jump straight into the extreme TOTL headphones from a lifetime of midranged products (Sony 1000xm4 and the sort).

After all the praise and hype and months of research, the 1266 TC is looking like the best for me. I want that for sure but I'll need starter equipment that I can upgrade down the line. Any all-in-ones that can power the Abyss? So far I only know of the FCN-10.

If not, I'll take some amp reccomendations.


----------



## tkam

The Schiit Jotunheim with one of the dac modules has enough power to drive them and is probably the best budget sub-$1k option you can get for an all-in-one solution.

I'd make sure you get the 1266 TC from somewhere with a good return policy, I know I'd be hesitant to jump straight to something like that as my first 'real' headphones.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

PhazeCrive said:


> Hello all. New guy here looking to jump straight into the extreme TOTL headphones from a lifetime of midranged products (Sony 1000xm4 and the sort).
> 
> After all the praise and hype and months of research, the 1266 TC is looking like the best for me. I want that for sure but I'll need starter equipment that I can upgrade down the line. Any all-in-ones that can power the Abyss? So far I only know of the FCN-10.
> 
> If not, I'll take some amp reccomendations.




Looks like a good move. Wish I could have saved the loss from buying and selling 20 headphones (although I value the experience). 
Share your impressions here!


----------



## genefruit

tkam said:


> I'd make sure you get the 1266 TC from somewhere with a good return policy, I know I'd be hesitant to jump straight to something like that as my first 'real' headphones.


Second this, as there have been a few who have experienced regret or have attempted to adjust the presentation to their liking and that can be a frustrating and expensive endeavor.  With that said, consider this as an option - https://www.thecableco.com/the-cable-company-headphone-lending-library

From the site: "A deposit equal to 5% of the selling price of the borrowed products will be charged to your credit card when we ship. This deposit is not refundable but will be applied in full against purchases (headphones, or any other new or used products) from The Cable Company, Usedcable.com, or our Ultra Systems affiliate."

I have neither have an affiliation nor experience with the lending library but many do and the responses have been favorable.


----------



## InstantSilence

TheMiddleSky said:


> Any more specific details, like title/album or name of the musician?
> 
> 
> 
> True, but it's still easier to understand his reference if we know what he listen to.


I found a segment relevant, while discovering new tracks on roon, I dislike the track but, now that I fixed my treble quite well, I do have one last issue elsewhere. 

In track name  *Listen to Me*
   By.    D-zybell
On *minimal techno) 

Problem starts at 1:01 and lasts until (an beyond) 1:12
Those claps.. Those claps really do tire me out quickly and plain makes my jaw tight. I find it very irritating... 
What frequency group is that? 
I cânt sweep it in an eq.. I don't get it.


----------



## Frankie D

genefruit said:


> Second this, as there have been a few who have experienced regret or have attempted to adjust the presentation to their liking and that can be a frustrating and expensive endeavor.  With that said, consider this as an option - https://www.thecableco.com/the-cable-company-headphone-lending-library
> 
> From the site: "A deposit equal to 5% of the selling price of the borrowed products will be charged to your credit card when we ship. This deposit is not refundable but will be applied in full against purchases (headphones, or any other new or used products) from The Cable Company, Usedcable.com, or our Ultra Systems affiliate."
> 
> I have neither have an affiliation nor experience with the lending library but many do and the responses have been favorable.


I dislike the idea of paying 5% of the cost to audition the product (plus shipping).  I can understand a fully refundable payment to protect the seller, but not a payment for the right to audition the product.  I would think other shops have demos.  Tks.


----------



## genefruit (Feb 3, 2021)

Frankie D said:


> I dislike the idea of paying 5% of the cost to audition the product (plus shipping).  I can understand a fully refundable payment to protect the seller, but not a payment for the right to audition the product.  I would think other shops have demos.  Tks.


the 5% applies toward any purchase from them.  Other shops don't typically have demos to send out for evaluation purposes and have a 10-20% restocking fee.  Postings from others have indicated that Abyss charges 20% restocking fee.


----------



## Frankie D

genefruit said:


> the 5% applies toward any purchase from them.  Other shops don't typically have demos to send out for evaluation purposes and have a 10-20% restocking fee.  Postings from others have indicated that Abyss charges 20% restocking fee.


Maybe so, but I still disagree with having to pay for an audition.  Especially in these times.  They should make some demos available  that can be shipped around. This is done with IEM’s and some of them cost as much as the 1266.  A 20% restocking fee is just crazy.  Tks.


----------



## paradoxper

It's not done with headphones. 

Play the game or watch from the bench.


----------



## Frankie D

I am not sure your remark makes any sense. It is done with 2-channel equipment costing many times what headphones cost.  And by the way, there are places that will do it, though I have not heard it done with Abyss.


----------



## qboogie

PortableAudioLover said:


> Are smaller or bigger o rings more comfortable ? And how many sizes for the orings do you get ?


 Based on an earlier post, the stock Abyss O-rings are 3mm cross-section and 24 mm internal diameter. I bought a few different diameters and ultimately settled on 32mm. I have a 58cm circumference head and prefer the TC at the widest setting to achieve a light seal. The O-ring Store sells individual sizes not that much money.


----------



## paradoxper

Frankie D said:


> I am not sure your remark makes any sense. It is done with 2-channel equipment costing many times what headphones cost.  And by the way, there are places that will do it, though I have not heard it done with Abyss.


Your interpretation doesn't make sense. 

You have dealers with brick-and-mortar (your free demos,) online dealers whom drop ship products and then thecableco which provide a lending service for trials.

Good luck directly contacting a manufacturer for a demo without the express promise of a positive review.


----------



## ken6217

Frankie D said:


> Maybe so, but I still disagree with having to pay for an audition.  Especially in these times.  They should make some demos available  that can be shipped around. This is done with IEM’s and some of them cost as much as the 1266.  A 20% restocking fee is just crazy.  Tks.



Seems like a good deal to me. Not many places are going to let you take something home for audition in your home. It’s a lot better than scouring hundreds of posts on forums and reading reviews and seeing what other people think about the item you want and you’re still never going to know until you hear for yourself.


----------



## Frankie D

ken6217 said:


> Seems like a good deal to me. Not many places are going to let you take something home for audition in your home. It’s a lot better than scouring hundreds of posts on forums and reading reviews and seeing what other people think about the item you want and you’re still never going to know until you hear for yourself.


Yes, that is my point.  There is an IEM called the Traillii which is a $6k IEM and MusicTeck will allow you to audition it for the cost of the shipping (you have to put up the full cost on your credit card though to guarantee against damage.  If you damage it, you bought it).  I view this as fair though. There are also “tour kits” that get shipped around to those who sign up so you can audition the different products.  As the person above posted, I am a bit surprised that it is not done with HP’s.  The stores I have a relationship, unfortunately, do not carry the Abyss.  I will figure something out eventually.  Tks.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

qboogie said:


> Based on an earlier post, the stock Abyss O-rings are 3mm cross-section and 24 mm internal diameter. I bought a few different diameters and ultimately settled on 32mm. I have a 58cm circumference head and prefer the TC at the widest setting to achieve a light seal. The O-ring Store sells individual sizes not that much money.


Can you please provide me with a link to where you got the o-rings from ? Thanks !


----------



## Roasty

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-abyss-superconductor-hp-cable-rooms-stand-jps-ic.954165/

Fantastic deal here! I took his xlr and usb cables.


----------



## Joeyjoe26

For those with the old style headband and who do not want to spend a bomb on a new style headband 

I’ve tried using rubber o rings and using a splice connector/crimp, its dead easy, and cheap to replace the o rings

My pics depict o rings of OD 30mm and CS 3mm. Crimp is 2.5mm. You may find the parts locally, I just got them from AliExpress, just over a sollar

US $0.76  5％ Off | 100Pcs Tin-coated Copper Material Uninsulated Terminal 0.5mm2-6.0mm2 Bootlace Ferrules Cord End Electrical Cable Crimp Connector
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMu7PI1


US $0.65 | 10pcs Black O Ring Gasket CS 3mm OD 10mm ~ 80mm NBR Automobile Nitrile Rubber Round O Type Corrosion Oil Resist Sealing Washer
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKRcUcp


----------



## ken6217

Joeyjoe26 said:


> For those with the old style headband and who do not want to spend a bomb on a new style headband
> 
> I’ve tried using rubber o rings and using a splice connector/crimp, its dead easy, and cheap to replace the o rings
> 
> ...



I still like the idea of hanging the headphone from from the metal frame so that there’s no stretch on the O-rings and learher pad. I don’t know if in reality it will make a difference, but makes me feel better.


----------



## tholt

Joeyjoe26 said:


> For those with the old style headband and who do not want to spend a bomb on a new style headband
> 
> I’ve tried using rubber o rings and using a splice connector/crimp, its dead easy, and cheap to replace the o rings
> 
> ...



Great idea. Just wonder about longevity


----------



## Litlgi74 (Feb 4, 2021)

Listen to how clean the drums sound!


https://tidal.com/track/133871106


----------



## rangerid

How would you guys describe the tonality of the 1266, from a scale of say, super clinial & cold to super lush and warm? Which side does it lean towards more? 

I know we all hear things differently, so anyone that's heard the following headphones in addition to 1266, Focal Utopia, Stellia, Hifiman Susvara, and LCD4, is the 1266 warmer or colder/thinner sounding than those headphones?


----------



## ken6217

I wonder how this sounds? Who’s going to be the first one to take one for the team question?

https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/headphone-amplifiers/MHA200


----------



## ahossam

vonBaron said:


> 1266 + Niimbus amp is god made synergy, im absolutely blown away!



I see that you mention this amp several times on this threads and how great is this amp pair with TC. Can you elaborate more, what makes Niimbus US4+ special with TC?


----------



## vonBaron

ahossam said:


> I see that you mention this amp several times on this threads and how great is this amp pair with TC. Can you elaborate more, what makes Niimbus US4+ special with TC?


TC with US4 sound so lush and full, bass is powerful and has great control, midrange is sweet, more warm than on GS-X mini, superb resolution and detail, highs are perfect, not so sharp. Awesome soundstage.
Overall US4 is better AMP than GS-X mini and Pro ICan combine.
It is my endgame AMP.


----------



## genefruit

ken6217 said:


> I wonder how this sounds? Who’s going to be the first one to take one for the team question?
> 
> https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/headphone-amplifiers/MHA200


I'll go back to this and contend it won't be a good fit and will wait to be told I'm wrong.  It sure is beautiful and the logo goes well with the old headband logo.

https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/headphone-amplifiers/MHA200

Headphone Power Output
500mW


----------



## ahossam

vonBaron said:


> TC with US4 sound so lush and full, bass is powerful and has great control, midrange is sweet, more warm than on GS-X mini, superb resolution and detail, highs are perfect, not so sharp. Awesome soundstage.
> Overall US4 is better AMP than GS-X mini and Pro ICan combine.
> It is my endgame AMP.



Sound like what I was looking for in TC.


----------



## JLoud

rangerid said:


> How would you guys describe the tonality of the 1266, from a scale of say, super clinial & cold to super lush and warm? Which side does it lean towards more?
> 
> I know we all hear things differently, so anyone that's heard the following headphones in addition to 1266, Focal Utopia, Stellia, Hifiman Susvara, and LCD4, is the 1266 warmer or colder/thinner sounding than those headphones?


1266 compared to Utopia. I had both and decided to sell the Utopia. The treble is similar between them. Nice extension and fantastic speed and detail. The Utopia has the edge in the mid range IMO. Just smoother and less recessed. Not that the 1266 is bad, just not quite as good. The 1266 kills the Utopia in the bass. More extension, more impact same detail. 1266 much larger sound stage.


----------



## JLoud

The LCD4 is much lusher in the mids with greater bass extension and impact. Both are very detailed just different in a different way in the bass. The treble is smoother and more even on the Utopia. Although the Audeze Reveal plugin helps the LCD4 in this regard. 
The LCD4 is a complimentary headphone where the 1266 is a similar but IMO superior headphone. The Utopia is a very fine headphone especially if you don’t listen to bass heavy headphones or don’t have/want a powerful amp.


----------



## ra990

genefruit said:


> https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/headphone-amplifiers/MHA200
> Headphone Power Output
> 500mW


Half a watt?! My farts are louder than that


----------



## vonBaron

ahossam said:


> Sound like what I was looking for in TC.


You won't be regret


----------



## ahossam

vonBaron said:


> You won't be regret



What DAC that you use with Niimbus?


----------



## vonBaron

Sonnet Morpheus


----------



## ken6217

ra990 said:


> Half a watt?! My farts are louder than that



Looks like your farts and your brain are in the same place. Learn how to read and understand numbers. 500 mW into 1000 ohms. Go figure out how many watts it is into 47 ohms.


----------



## genefruit

ken6217 said:


> Looks like your farts and your brain are in the same place. Learn how to read and understand numbers. 500 mW into 1000 ohms. Go figure out how many watts it is into 47 ohms.


I'd like to learn more.  Based on the ad copy it appears the output (500 mW) is the same regardless of the ohms.

https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/headphone-amplifiers/MHA200

"We custom designed and manufactured the output transformers to match the tube amplifier section to the headphone output section in order to ensure maximum power transfer for various headphone loads. Instead of having to adapt to the impedance of the headphones with voltage gain in the input stage, the Unity Coupled Circuit output transformers' secondary windings ensure the full power of the MHA200 is available regardless of the impedance of your headphones. A custom, high-performance, and highly efficient toroidal power transformer with low mechanical hum and a low magnetic field, which helps reduce electrical noise, provides clean power to the amplifier."  

from the specs

Voltage Gain
12dB at 32 Ohms
17dB at 100 Ohms
21dB at 250 Ohms
25dB at 600 Ohms


----------



## ra990

ken6217 said:


> Looks like your farts and your brain are in the same place. Learn how to read and understand numbers. 500 mW into 1000 ohms. Go figure out how many watts it is into 47 ohms.


That was a bit harsh, it was just a silly joke. Plus you're wrong, read more about the design of the amp then get back to us.


----------



## ken6217

It’s 8 watts into 47 ohms


----------



## ken6217 (Feb 5, 2021)

double reply .


----------



## ken6217

Did even even better. I just called Macintosh. See the reply above. My reply wasn’t harsh. It was wise ass just lik yours.

Also you should use common sense. Do you think someone is going to put out an amp that puts out a half of a watt?


----------



## ra990

ken6217 said:


> do you even better. I just called Macintosh. See the reply above. My reply wasn’t harsh. It was wise ass just like yours.


Well this is what they printed in their full product details, under technical specifications, linked just a couple posts ago. Perhaps they should update that, also chill...I was making a silly joke about people thinking half a watt isn't loud. I'm not trying to get into an argument, this will be my last post on this. 

Technical Specifications - Power Output 
32   Ohm Load 500mW 
100 Ohm Load 500mW 
250 Ohm Load 500mW 
600 Ohm Load 500mW


----------



## JLoud

Nelson Pass likes the first watt! 😁
So I guess he would like the MacIntosh half as much. (You saw what I did there 😉)


----------



## ken6217

ra990 said:


> Well this is what they printed in their full product details, under technical specifications, linked just a couple posts ago. Perhaps they should update that, also chill...I was making a silly joke about people thinking half a watt isn't loud. I'm not trying to get into an argument, this will be my last post on this.
> 
> Technical Specifications - Power Output
> 32   Ohm Load 500mW
> ...



I agree with you on that. To me it made no logical sense and that’s why I called Macintosh.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Looks like your farts and your brain are in the same place. Learn how to read and understand numbers. 500 mW into 1000 ohms. Go figure out how many watts it is into 47 ohms.


LMAO. Ya'll cray. 

Love it.


----------



## ahossam

ken6217 said:


> I wonder how this sounds? Who’s going to be the first one to take one for the team question?
> 
> https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/headphone-amplifiers/MHA200



And the price too doesn't make your wallet scream.


----------



## Frankie D

ahossam said:


> And the price too doesn't make your wallet scream.


I am amazed McIntosh is “only” charging $2500.00. I would have expected much more from them.


----------



## genefruit

ken6217 said:


> I agree with you on that. To me it made no logical sense and that’s why I called Macintosh.


I also spoke to Macintosh via email

genefruit= Hello, I'm excited to hear about the new MHA200 headphone amplifier. It appears to be a beautiful amplifier and I'd like to learn more about it. Specifically, when the specs note the same 500mW output regardless of load. Is this correct? I've read some conflicting information that says the following chart from your website is not correct. Can you address? 
Headphone Power Output 500mW 
Headphone Output Impedance 
32-100 Ohms 
100-250 Ohms 
250-600 Ohms 
600-1,000 Ohms 

McIntosh = " Yes, the specifications as listed are correct in that 500MW will be the minimum available for all the impedances listed. "

McIntosh (emphasis mine) = " With an unlimited power supply, math says 500mW at 1,000 Ohms would be about 8 Watts into 50 Ohms,* probably does not have that much power supply*. Also, 8 watts would light most headphones on fire. "

genefruit = "I agree and is one of the reasons I'm reaching out is to get an accurate understanding of what the amplifier's output with a 47ohm load 88db headphone (Abyss) - https://abyss-headphones.com/pages/abyss-ab-1266-phi-reference-headphone"

 McIntosh = " After we start shipping these you should take your phones to a dealer for a test listen. Then you will know. "

Alright then, keep you secrets...


----------



## Frankie D

genefruit said:


> I also spoke to Macintosh via email
> 
> genefruit= Hello, I'm excited to hear about the new MHA200 headphone amplifier. It appears to be a beautiful amplifier and I'd like to learn more about it. Specifically, when the specs note the same 500mW output regardless of load. Is this correct? I've read some conflicting information that says the following chart from your website is not correct. Can you address?
> Headphone Power Output 500mW
> ...


That sounds like a concern to me in that they may not have tested the more difficult to drive headphones.  Certainly not the answer I would have expected from Macintosh.


----------



## InstantSilence

genefruit said:


> I also spoke to Macintosh via email
> 
> genefruit= Hello, I'm excited to hear about the new MHA200 headphone amplifier. It appears to be a beautiful amplifier and I'd like to learn more about it. Specifically, when the specs note the same 500mW output regardless of load. Is this correct? I've read some conflicting information that says the following chart from your website is not correct. Can you address?
> Headphone Power Output 500mW
> ...


Alright then, keep your secrets! Had me cracking up


----------



## genefruit (Feb 5, 2021)

delete


----------



## ken6217

That’s really weird. The guy that you emailed must be the same guy that I spoke to on the phone because he use the same terminology of “light your headphones on fire “

They have to know what the heck their amp puts out based on their power supply.


----------



## paradoxper

If you guys are speaking with Ron, you'll find he's quite ambivalent which is a curiosity.


----------



## jlbrach

vonBaron said:


> TC with US4 sound so lush and full, bass is powerful and has great control, midrange is sweet, more warm than on GS-X mini, superb resolution and detail, highs are perfect, not so sharp. Awesome soundstage.
> Overall US4 is better AMP than GS-X mini and Pro ICan combine.
> It is my endgame AMP.


the 4+ also happens to cost twice as much as the 2 amps combined so yes, I assume it will be better.....


----------



## tholt

rangerid said:


> How would you guys describe the tonality of the 1266, from a scale of say, super clinial & cold to super lush and warm? Which side does it lean towards more?


If you're picking sides, I would not say it's cold per se, but it's definitely not lush or warm. It's very detailed, fast and clean. Amp and component matching are a must, not just for synergy, but on the amp side also needs enough power and current to properly drive them.


----------



## jlbrach

it does just about everything right...along with the susvara, sr1a there is IMHO nothing better


----------



## Ciggavelli

jlbrach said:


> it does just about everything right...along with the susvara, sr1a there is IMHO nothing better


It’s definitely the trifecta to have. Only thing better is maybe those $50k electrostatics from Sennheiser or Hifiman. I’ve never heard them though, so I don’t even know if they actually are better.

I got a T+A Solitaire P ordered. It should come soon. It’s priced to play in the TC and Susvara level, but easier to drive. Once I get it, I’m gonna do some comparisons


----------



## JLoud

Just read a little on that headphone. Looks interesting. Eagerly awaiting your impressions.


----------



## Roasty

I have to stop reading these threads...


----------



## InstantSilence

Roasty said:


> I have to stop reading these threads...


Its ever fund draining exercise


----------



## vonBaron

Some have info about case for 1266?


----------



## InstantSilence

Does anyone put their TC in a pelican-like case? What model size have you guys found to be a snug tight fit? Oh yeah!


----------



## JLoud

This is the case I’m using.
*Monoprice Weatherproof / Shockproof Hard Case - Black IP67 level dust and water protection up to 1 meter depth with Customizable Foam, 19" x 16" x 8"
Available on Amazon *


----------



## InstantSilence

JLoud said:


> This is the case I’m using.
> *Monoprice Weatherproof / Shockproof Hard Case - Black IP67 level dust and water protection up to 1 meter depth with Customizable Foam, 19" x 16" x 8"
> Available on Amazon *


Do you think it's the smallest that would fit the TC?


----------



## genefruit

InstantSilence said:


> Do you think it's the smallest that would fit the TC?


rough tape on the dimensions of the headphones look like this would hold'em.  Measure twice, buy once.

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-We...12"+hard+case+monoprice&qid=1612572868&sr=8-1


----------



## JLoud

The case does have extra room in it. I used it for extra cables and such. Unless you need the smallest possible it works well.


----------



## JLoud

genefruit said:


> rough tape on the dimensions of the headphones look like this would hold'em.  Measure twice, buy once.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Weatherproof-Shockproof-Hard-Case/dp/B013Z7474O/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=12"+hard+case+monoprice&qid=1612572868&sr=8-1


Make sure you check internal dimensions. Plus you have to leave room for foam as cushion. The biggest issue I had in finding one was depth.


----------



## jlbrach

I saw a review from a guy I forget who said he listened to the abyss and the sr1a against the 50K models and he said he liked the sr1a and abyss better...I will be honest as I listen to the sr1a I find it hard to imagine much better...same goes for the susvara and abyss tc....different yes but better hard to imagine....


----------



## PortableAudioLover

genefruit said:


> I also spoke to Macintosh via email
> 
> genefruit= Hello, I'm excited to hear about the new MHA200 headphone amplifier. It appears to be a beautiful amplifier and I'd like to learn more about it. Specifically, when the specs note the same 500mW output regardless of load. Is this correct? I've read some conflicting information that says the following chart from your website is not correct. Can you address?
> Headphone Power Output 500mW
> ...


I laughed so hard when they said "Also, 8 watts would light most headphones on fire."


----------



## Roasty

I tried out my Audiolab 8300a as a pre to the Apollon purifi power amp.

Long story short, the Milo Reference sounds better than the Audiolab/Apollon combo. Milo has much better low end punch, rumble and extension. Milo highs are clearer and the leading edges are better defined. The audiolab sounds rolled off on both ends, and overall a flatter and dulled out sound. In contrast, rockna wavelight dac as pre amp to the apollon was simply amazing.

I think this goes to show how important a good pre-amplifier is. I am waiting for an Okto dac8 stereo to arrive, and intention is to run it as streamer and pre to the Apollon. I hope it works better as a pre than the audiolab. If not, I'll be Googling for a good pre..


----------



## vonBaron (Feb 6, 2021)

JLoud said:


> This is the case I’m using.
> *Monoprice Weatherproof / Shockproof Hard Case - Black IP67 level dust and water protection up to 1 meter depth with Customizable Foam, 19" x 16" x 8"
> Available on Amazon *


Something simmilar from aliexpess?
Nevermind i fund it!


----------



## simorag

Wanna hear how *LIVE* the AB-1266 sound?

Then, just play the first track really _loud_...





A special pair of headphones when it comes to this... oh, and if you're like me you will not stop at the first track


----------



## qboogie

Got the superconductor HP cable 2 days ago. Immediate impression lines up with a lot of what you guys are saying, lower mids  more forward making vocals more full-bodied and warm. Detail and instrument separation better than stock. Treble is less harsh but loses sparkle. The bass seems more clearly textured, but sadly the bass quantity and slam are reduced. If I could numerate it, I would guess a 10% reduction. Some others have reported the same thing. I really miss the bass from the stock.

I also tried Norne silvergarde S3-C cable. The bass slam and presence return to the same level as the stock cable, and is just a little more detailed. The treble regains its sparkle but can occasionally get hot. Upper mids are less recessed and thicker than the stock cable, and overall I enjoy this more, but on some recordings the vocals still have a subtle digital glare on them. Wish the lower mids were filled in a tad more. Compared to the Superconductor, the Norne cable separates nearly as well, has more satisfying bass,  a bit more treble energy and less natural mids/vocal tones. 

I also tried out Forza's Noir Hybrid cable. I was very surprised at how it performed. Bass was as just as good as stock, with a little more bloom. Vocals/mids were just right, with a touch of warmth and forwardness that the 1266 TC really needs in my system. To my ears, the treble was in the correct balance too, but didn't have the same perceived cleanliness and sparkle of the Norne cable. Treble was less intense than on the stock and never was sharp or hot. In terms of resolution and instrument separation I felt it was the least impressive of the four cables, but still lovely. 

In terms of stage size, hard to tell. I feel like this is more a property of the headphone itself and psychoacoustics (hope I'm using this correctly). I don't want to get tricked into thinking more intimate/thicker mids shrinks the stage or more treble/mids recession expands the virtual stage. I will say the Superconductor does have an Empyrean-like quality, where because I'm so wrapped up in the intimate mids (and because the treble is slightly subdued with less bass quantity) that it doesn't invite "stepping back to take in the whole picture." It feels just a bit less grand. While the musical information is all there, it just takes a little more effort and deliberate focus to engage in it.

My gear is Ibasso DX160   -> Hugo M-Scaler -> WAVE Stream BNC cables -> Hugo TT2 (Filter 1, no crossfeed) connected via rear XLR3 output using Moon audio adapter plugs on high gain. iFi Power Station for power conditioning. I did my listening after midnight. The Abyss has 200 hrs of use and is burned in. I got my fit down pretty good.

In the end, I have to say I prefer the Norne Silvergarde S3-C cable the most. I liked it even more when I set the TT2 filter to the 3rd filter to help smooth the treble. The Superconductor cable fixed the main complaint I had about the 1266 TC which was the recessed mids, but at the cost of SOME of the things that make it sound like the best headphone in the world. I'll give it another 50 hours or so of listening (not a huge believer in cable burn-in) to see if it opens up. If not I'll sell it (it's 4 feet, dual XLR if it wasn't clear)

Hope this was helpful.


----------



## vonBaron (Feb 6, 2021)

So SC is overpriced crap? 
I stick with my Dana Cables Lazuli Ultra, i dont't want my 1266 to be more warm now.


----------



## qboogie

Haha, nah I definitely didn't say that. Please no flames! 

It is definitely overpriced, but is a very solid cable with a different flavor and intent than the stock. It should exist separately. I don't feel it should replace the stock cable for the 1266 itself. Though I will agree with all of you that the  stock cable aesthetics/handling need to be upgraded to the Superconductor's level.


----------



## cjarrett

qboogie said:


> Haha, nah I definitely didn't say that. Please no flames!
> 
> It is definitely overpriced, but is a very solid cable with a different flavor and intent than the stock. It should exist separately. I don't feel it should replace the stock cable for the 1266 itself. Though I will agree with all of you that the  stock cable aesthetics/handling need to be upgraded to the Superconductor's level.


Thanks for the impressions.


----------



## jlbrach (Feb 6, 2021)

vonBaron said:


> So SC is overpriced crap?
> I stick with my Dana Cables Lazuli Ultra, i dont't want my 1266 to be more warm now.


hilarious,I assume this is a joke....stick with the 2k lazuli lol...the SC is excellent and also overpriced because all expensive cables are...you pay a ton of money for incremental improvement but yes it is improvement


----------



## DJJEZ (Feb 6, 2021)

qboogie said:


> Got the superconductor HP cable 2 days ago. Immediate impression lines up with a lot of what you guys are saying, lower mids  more forward making vocals more full-bodied and warm. Detail and instrument separation better than stock. Treble is less harsh but loses sparkle. The bass seems more clearly textured, but sadly the bass quantity and slam are reduced. If I could numerate it, I would guess a 10% reduction. Some others have reported the same thing. I really miss the bass from the stock.
> 
> I also tried Norne silvergarde S3-C cable. The bass slam and presence return to the same level as the stock cable, and is just a little more detailed. The treble regains its sparkle but can occasionally get hot. Upper mids are less recessed and thicker than the stock cable, and overall I enjoy this more, but on some recordings the vocals still have a subtle digital glare on them. Wish the lower mids were filled in a tad more. Compared to the Superconductor, the Norne cable separates nearly as well, has more satisfying bass,  a bit more treble energy and less natural mids/vocal tones.
> 
> ...



Great info. Now I don't need to buy one


----------



## JLoud

I have not heard the SC but do have the Norne Silvergarde. My impressions line up fairly well with yours comparing the stock to the Norne.


----------



## vonBaron

jlbrach said:


> hilarious,I assume this is a joke....stick with the 2k lazuli lol...the SC is excellent and also overpriced because all expensive cables are...you pay a ton of money for incremental improvement but yes it is improvement


FYI i didn't pay 2k for it...


----------



## InstantSilence

vonBaron said:


> FYI i didn't pay 2k for it...


I wish you had


----------



## Litlgi74

simorag said:


> Wanna hear how *LIVE* the AB-1266 sound?
> 
> Then, just play the first track really _loud_...
> 
> ...


Not on Tidal


----------



## jlbrach

vonBaron said:


> FYI i didn't pay 2k for it...


who cares whether you got a better deal or not...to own the danacable and then attack the SC over its cost is kind of ridiculous...for the record the SC is a good upgrade IMHO and like all cables overpriced...it is better IMHO than the already quite good stock cable and IMHO better than the danacable which I used to own...of course it is ALL subjective including value and benefit


----------



## paradoxper

Cable debate.

Please go on...


----------



## InstantSilence

Moved to optical on my dac and some further smoothness was added! Love it. Getting closer to my preferred treble.


----------



## Tugbars

do people volume match while comparing cables to each other?


----------



## cjarrett

paradoxper said:


> Cable debate.
> 
> Please go on...


When the only winner are those who do not participate—a unique experience can be had.......


----------



## InstantSilence

Idk, I've always heard differences between cables once I moved on to better resolving gear... TC so resolving it shows you when you change electronics on it. 
I'm not the best as describing sound or even average... But I find cables do a cleaner job than eq!


----------



## Abyss Headphones

Superconductor HP cable takes about 75 hours of play time to come around. Extended bass and space comes in near the end of this.


----------



## jlbrach

Abyss Headphones said:


> Superconductor HP cable takes about 75 hours of play time to come around. Extended bass and space comes in near the end of this.


out of curiosity,what changes in a cable over that 75 hours?


----------



## Roasty

jlbrach said:


> out of curiosity,what changes in a cable over that 75 hours?



Don't know about the cable. But after spending close to 3k on one, I usually go through denial, anger, bargaining, depression and then finally acceptance..


----------



## PhazeCrive

Can't really tell if it's their marketing hype to get you to spend 2k on cables. I have bought the silver dragons from moon audio to lift the veil off of my closed backs, and Moon Audio recommended 150 hour burn-in, so the SC make sense in that regard.


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Feb 6, 2021)

Primarily the interface between conductor and dielectric changes. Capacitors go through a similar change.
Connector contacts also reach a steady state after plugged in, but that's more like 15-20 minutes after connected. The contact surface area on each connector settles.

Audibility of the above depends on how attune you are to your system, and your experience in listening for this. A well broken in cable can be compared to the exact same cable with no time on it, that's usually the easiest way to hear a difference if you haven't trained yourself to hear this out over time.

I tend to ignore the first few days of anything new in the system. Let it play, have a listen from time to time to take a snapshot of the sound, and see how it changes day to day. The first few hours is typically more dramatic than the slower changes through the coming days or weeks. Different dielectrics change at different rates, so you'll get different break-in periods (and various roller coaster rides) through break-in depending on the design.



jlbrach said:


> out of curiosity,what changes in a cable over that 75 hours?


----------



## tholt

Roasty said:


> Don't know about the cable. But after spending close to 3k on one, I usually go through denial, anger, bargaining, depression and then finally acceptance..


 I literally lol'd. Nice one!


----------



## qboogie

Abyss Headphones said:


> Superconductor HP cable takes about 75 hours of play time to come around. Extended bass and space comes in near the end of this.


 75 hours it is then. Will follow up with updated impressions


----------



## DJJEZ

Roasty said:


> Don't know about the cable. But after spending close to 3k on one, I usually go through denial, anger, bargaining, depression and then finally acceptance..



Only 3K?


----------



## jlbrach

it is incredible how we get desensitized to price...I remember when I went looking to buy my very first high end HP I saw the lcd-3 was 2k and I almost choked...now that is a bargain lol


----------



## Bonddam

jlbrach said:


> who cares whether you got a better deal or not...to own the danacable and then attack the SC over its cost is kind of ridiculous...for the record the SC is a good upgrade IMHO and like all cables overpriced...it is better IMHO than the already quite good stock cable and IMHO better than the danacable which I used to own...of course it is ALL subjective including value and benefit


Jeff Wells use JPS wiring in all his amps I trust the big boys putting out top dog amps with jps wires. Jeff finds Aluminium to be richer and many other things over silver. I hear the difference. Silver is thin sounding. I would have gotten the WA33 Elite JPS but above my budget.


----------



## Bonddam

Isn't the stock cable Aluminoy just thinner?


----------



## Bonddam (Feb 6, 2021)

You know who rips you off? The ISP. I see all these people with a gig of speed and when I check their modem on Merlin they top out at worst 25 megs. I can tell when they play games download and watch 1080p to 4k just by looking at the frequency graph. I get the service for free and I I only have a 100meg. When 8k video starts streaming you'll top out at 100 megs. Figure show the none industry people something. Save on Cable and buy good Cable.


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Feb 6, 2021)

@qboogie that's if it's left to play for that amount of time. If you keep disconnecting, reconnecting, coiling, etc. during break-in you pretty much need to start the timer again. If you can and using a solid state amp just let it play, put a pillow over the headphone.

Both stock and Superconductor 1266 cables use our Alumiloy conductors, however each utilizes different strand size, dielectrics, and topologies.. The stock cable is a 23 AWG x 4, doubled up, so basically 20 AWG. The 1266 SC cable is a twisted pair 15 AWG, hand-made from the inside out.


----------



## InstantSilence

Joe Skubinski said:


> @qboogie that's if it's left to play for that amount of time. If you keep disconnecting, reconnecting, coiling, etc. during break-in you pretty much need to start the timer again. If you can and using a solid state amp just let it play, put a pillow over the headphone.
> 
> Both stock and Superconductor 1266 cables use our Alumiloy conductors, however each utilizes different strand size, dielectrics, and topologies.. The stock cable is a 23 AWG x 4, doubled up, so basically 20 AWG. The SC cable is a twisted pair 15 AWG, hand-made from the inside out.


Don't these many hours... And eventually hundreds and hundreds of hrs... Just wear down the TC bad?


----------



## ken6217

InstantSilence said:


> Don't these many hours... And eventually hundreds and hundreds of hrs... Just wear down the TC bad?



You don’t have to put on any real volume. Just anything over “0”.


----------



## Ciggavelli

What, it doesn’t break in over time?  I’ve never kept my TCs or SC running 100hours straight. I mean, everything sounds amazing, I have no complaints, but I never knew “burn-in time” referred to continuous time on


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> What, it doesn’t break in over time?  I’ve never kept my TCs or SC running 100hours straight. I mean, everything sounds amazing, I have no complaints, but I never knew “burn-in time” referred to continuous time on


Only in fairy-land do you get the equivalent Everlasting Gobstopper.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

Absolutely you can do it over time, it’s just not going to happen in 3 days, and for whatever reason there’s seems to be a need tor speed here. I should mention it’s much better to listen to a new thing for days at a time rather than swapping in and out. Choices then tend to favor long-term enjoyment.


----------



## olle83

Reading these impressions I get the feeling that the best cable for TC would be like halfway between the stock and superconductor?
Can you guys at Abyss start manufacturing this cable?


----------



## ken6217

olle83 said:


> Reading these impressions I get the feeling that the best cable for TC would be like halfway between the stock and superconductor?
> Can you guys at Abyss start manufacturing this cable?



LOL


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> Don't know about the cable. But after spending close to 3k on one, I usually go through denial, anger, bargaining, depression and then finally acceptance..


Yup. That will take about 70 hrs. LOL.


----------



## InstantSilence

I use roon /tidal for discovery. Out of 100 tracks I'll keep 1 or 2.
 Here is one I dislike but it's a good example to my sensitivity (looking more like mids and not as much treble as I thought) 

Check this track out 
The annoying *clap *like sound is from 0:45 to 0:55
What FR range is that (and how can I narrow the range down as tight as possible)? 

Also, you guys with the TC, do you find this FR, this clap, fatiguing? Piercing? 
Here it is. 

Please do ne a favor and check it out, I'd love to hear what you guys say about this fatigue. I think it's mostly me. And not others. At least not the TC.


----------



## vonBaron

In past days i listen 30 new bands (discovery mode too) and 80% of it sound so flat and compresed, damn, TC really can show how music can sound bad.


----------



## vonBaron

InstantSilence said:


> I use roon /tidal for discovery. Out of 100 tracks I'll keep 1 or 2.
> Here is one I dislike but it's a good example to my sensitivity (looking more like mids and not as much treble as I thought)
> 
> Check this track out
> ...


Not my music taste but for me it sound ok.


----------



## tholt

InstantSilence said:


> Please do ne a favor and check it out, I'd love to hear what you guys say about this fatigue. I think it's mostly me. And not others. At least not the TC.


Doesn't sound piercing to me


----------



## Litlgi74

InstantSilence said:


> I use roon /tidal for discovery. Out of 100 tracks I'll keep 1 or 2.
> Here is one I dislike but it's a good example to my sensitivity (looking more like mids and not as much treble as I thought)
> 
> Check this track out
> ...


Hopefully with the 1.8 Roon update... Tidal Top Tracks will actually be functional... They promised it would be fixed by the end of 2020... But that came and went.


----------



## InstantSilence

Litlgi74 said:


> Hopefully with the 1.8 Roon update... Tidal Top Tracks will actually be functional... They promised it would be fixed by the end of 2020... But that came and went.


What does this mean?


----------



## Litlgi74 (Feb 7, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> I use roon /tidal for discovery. Out of 100 tracks I'll keep 1 or 2.
> Here is one I dislike but it's a good example to my sensitivity (looking more like mids and not as much treble as I thought)
> 
> Check this track out
> ...


Sounds fine to me... 





InstantSilence said:


> What does this mean?


Check out the Top Tracks in the actual Tidal app vs the Roon app... they aren’t even close.


So... unlike the Tidal app... Roon does not display the most popular songs or hits of an artist in the Top Track section. This really limits discovery.

Sorry... a bit of a rant... I have been waiting for this to be fixed for a very long time.


----------



## Litlgi74

InstantSilence said:


> I use roon /tidal for discovery. Out of 100 tracks I'll keep 1 or 2.
> Here is one I dislike but it's a good example to my sensitivity (looking more like mids and not as much treble as I thought)
> 
> Check this track out
> ...


I don’t find the “clap” sound fatiguing... but it is not well balanced between channels. Sounds right heavy to me.


----------



## vonBaron

I want in new Roon beter related artist becouse now is a joke...


----------



## InstantSilence

Litlgi74 said:


> Sounds fine to me...
> Check out the Top Tracks in the actual Tidal app vs the Roon app... they aren’t even close.
> 
> So... unlike the Tidal app... Roon does not display the most popular songs or hits of an artist in the Top Track section. This really limits discovery.
> ...


That's a pretty *big* deal when roon is supposed to be a music library/discovery thing... Whatver... Hopefully it gets fixed. 


Well it's apperant that it's my ears that have this issue and I gotta eq. It is what it is.  I took down from 1.5k to 4.5k by 2db and it helped, may need more. 

I wish I could somehow find out and narrow a FR range of that sound that bothers me, but idk how to find out exactly where it is.


----------



## Litlgi74

InstantSilence said:


> That's a pretty *big* deal when roon is supposed to be a music library/discovery thing... Whatver... Hopefully it gets fixed.
> 
> 
> Well it's apperant that it's my ears that have this issue and I gotta eq. It is what it is.  I took down from 1.5k to 4.5k by 2db and it helped, may need more.
> ...


Does the “clap” sound right heavy to you?


----------



## InstantSilence

Litlgi74 said:


> Does the “clap” sound right heavy to you?


Just ever so slightly yes. But very very little. I had to relistrn to the fragment in order to notice it. 
But it does seem shouty, spiky, fatiguing to me. Like if every track had that in it. In 20 Mins, I'd be done for the day with listening. 
-2db in between 1.5k and 4.5k helps a lot, but 6db pretty much helps it entirely, but that's a lot of reduction and it cheapens the overall quality 

So I need to find out a much narrower range of FR to EQ... But how....


----------



## InstantSilence

Litlgi74 said:


> Does the “clap” sound right heavy to you?


To add, I've found tracks vary quite a bit in quality *tiers*, recording quality ect, with the abyss showing you the ugly and the sexy within


----------



## MatW

InstantSilence said:


> Just ever so slightly yes. But very very little. I had to relistrn to the fragment in order to notice it.
> But it does seem shouty, spiky, fatiguing to me. Like if every track had that in it. In 20 Mins, I'd be done for the day with listening.
> -2db in between 1.5k and 4.5k helps a lot, but 6db pretty much helps it entirely, but that's a lot of reduction and it cheapens the overall quality
> 
> So I need to find out a much narrower range of FR to EQ... But how....


Trial and error? Try -3 db at 1k intervals and see what works?


----------



## Litlgi74

InstantSilence said:


> Just ever so slightly yes. But very very little. I had to relistrn to the fragment in order to notice it.
> But it does seem shouty, spiky, fatiguing to me. Like if every track had that in it. In 20 Mins, I'd be done for the day with listening.
> -2db in between 1.5k and 4.5k helps a lot, but 6db pretty much helps it entirely, but that's a lot of reduction and it cheapens the overall quality
> 
> So I need to find out a much narrower range of FR to EQ... But how....


Now that we know what to listen for... I’m sure someone will be able to figure it out.


----------



## jlbrach

vonBaron said:


> In past days i listen 30 new bands (discovery mode too) and 80% of it sound so flat and compresed, damn, TC really can show how music can sound bad.


the sad truth is no matter how expensive and how terrific your equipment is you cannot fix poorly mastered and recorded music...in fact the better the gear the more obvious poor recordings are


----------



## FLTWS

Sometimes lesser equipment can make the poorly recorded stuff easier to listen to. Better equipment just points out more recording flaws.


----------



## ken6217

FLTWS said:


> Sometimes lesser equipment can make the poorly recorded stuff easier to listen to. Better equipment just points out more recording flaws.



That’s more than sometimes.


----------



## Litlgi74

Anyone know why @astrostar59 was banned... feel free to pm if you know.


----------



## kamlam

jlbrach said:


> the sad truth is no matter how expensive and how terrific your equipment is you cannot fix poorly mastered and recorded music...in fact the better the gear the more obvious poor recordings are


Yes some of my 60s and 70s rock doesn’t sound so great anymore  but it’s worth it


----------



## ken6217

I see


kamlam said:


> Yes some of my 60s and 70s rock doesn’t sound so great anymore  but it’s worth it



That’s what Empyreans are for.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Litlgi74 said:


> Anyone know why @astrostar59 was banned... feel free to pm if you know.


I don't know for certain, but I'm assuming it is related to trying to sell his amps on here.  Apparently that's a no-no now.


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> I don't know for certain, but I'm assuming it is related to trying to sell his amps on here.  Apparently that's a no-no now.



I’m sure that’s why. I’ve seen him shilling stuff on other forums as well.


----------



## kamlam

ken6217 said:


> I see
> 
> 
> That’s what Empyreans are for.


That’s what I’ve been thinking too. I listen to pretty much every typical genre so I have lots of solid recordings to listen to. But yeah Empyreans might be added to the collection soon. I have the Focal Clears too but after listening to the TC they seem average.


----------



## Litlgi74

Ciggavelli said:


> I don't know for certain, but I'm assuming it is related to trying to sell his amps on here.  Apparently that's a no-no now.


Sad... always liked hearing his opinions.


----------



## InstantSilence

ken6217 said:


> I’m sure that’s why. I’ve seen him shilling stuff on other forums as well.


Are they that forgiving? I guess they skimp on resolution?


----------



## koven

You can stuff a wool sock into your TC cups for that Empyrean effect.


----------



## ken6217

InstantSilence said:


> Are they that forgiving? I guess they skimp on resolution?



I sold mine for the TC. I guess forgiving could be the term. They do have good detail and bass though.


----------



## ken6217

koven said:


> You can stuff a wool sock into your TC cups for that Empyrean effect.



Nah.


----------



## vonBaron

jlbrach said:


> the sad truth is no matter how expensive and how terrific your equipment is you cannot fix poorly mastered and recorded music...in fact the better the gear the more obvious poor recordings are


That's why i can't have only one HP.


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> That's why i can't have only one HP.



What’s your next go to headphone for recordings that are not forgiving?


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Feb 8, 2021)

nm


----------



## vonBaron

ken6217 said:


> What’s your next go to headphone for recordings that are not forgiving?


You mean for bad recording? Final D8000.


----------



## Litlgi74

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Hi guys, I am deeply concerned ... I sent my tc last week to Abyss for servicing using UPS two-day air. Since several days the tracking shows delayed due to weather (it was sunshine all the way at the end of the week) and UPS just told me an investigation needs to be opened. Terrified now.


Well... I'm sure you insured it for full retail value? If so... Nothing to be afraid of. They will cut you a check... And you can buy a brand new pair.


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> You mean for bad recording? Final D8000.



interesting. I was always curious about that headphone as a herd had excellent base, but I thought it was supposed to be bright. No?

I also read a review a while ago saying that the original is better than the special edition?


----------



## ken6217

Litlgi74 said:


> Well... I'm sure you insured it for full retail value? If so... Nothing to be afraid of. They will cut you a check... And you can buy a brand new pair.



From your mouth to God’s ears. Any of my experience with UPS with issues of damage etc., I had as much success as if I opened up the window, jumped out, and went up.


----------



## vonBaron

No, D8000 are warm headphones with sometimes harsh highs.
There are no SE versions, it's D8000 and D8000 Pro, Pro has better highs and resolution but don have that big Bass.


ken6217 said:


> interesting. I was always curious about that headphone as a herd had excellent base, but I thought it was supposed to be bright. No?
> 
> I also read a review a while ago saying that the original is better than the special edition?


----------



## JLoud

I had an item damaged by USPS. Person I shipped it to took it into Post office. They said I had to claim the insurance because I was the one who purchased it. Of course they had to ship it back to me so I could take it in. Ridiculous.


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> No, D8000 are warm headphones with sometimes harsh highs.
> There are no SE versions, it's D8000 and D8000 Pro, Pro has better highs and resolution but don have that big Bass.



Thats right. I was thinking of the Pro. How is the soundstage on the normal version?


----------



## vonBaron

Soundstage is good on high and decent on depth.


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> Soundstage is good on high and decent on depth.


Thanks.


----------



## Litlgi74

ken6217 said:


> From your mouth to God’s ears. Any of my experience with UPS with issues of damage etc., I had as much success as if I opened up the window, jumped out, and went up.


I work for UPS...


----------



## ken6217

Litlgi74 said:


> I work for UPS...



I know. I didn’t know if you wanted me to mention that in my previous post. With that said, it is what it is.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Feb 8, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> I know. I didn’t know if you wanted me to mention that in my previous post. With that said, it is what it is.


As I told @Hoegaardener70 ... UPS just lost something of  mine the UK... It's been three weeks now. They are blaming Brexit...next will be covid. I wish I could help @Hoegaardener70 ... But I can't even help myself. 

It's a disaster with most shipping companies right now... I'm still getting Christmas cards in the mail... And I just received a pair of Super Dupont Resonators (HD800) that were shipped via USPS by a friend in Utah... in November!


----------



## tkam

I've owned the Abyss 1266 TC for a little while now and they continue to impress me with each listen, it's such a visceral experience compared to other headphones.  The dynamics, slam & resolution are top notch but for me what really sets them apart is their unique presentation.  The staging they portray does such a wonderful job of letting you hear the space it's recorded in, whether it's quiet studio or live stadium.  Nothing else I've heard does that as well as the 1266 TC do.

When it comes to cables, I'm just not that much of a believer.  If a cable is completely changing how something sounds then it's either broken or doing something wrong.  If we're talking 1% of 1% differences, then sure I can buy that based on the materials used and their differing impedance, conductivity and resistance.  

I think the stock cable is perfectly fine I just don't like the ergonomics of it.  For that reason alone I bought a Norne S4 cable that I much prefer as it is more flexible and shorter which works better for my use.  I'd much rather spend my money on additional headphones, amps, tubes, etc.

This thread has been a wonderful source of information and thanks to everyone that's participated in it.


----------



## InstantSilence

Got the rad0, yes it's smooth, I enjoy its treble, bass is bloated, and they are veiled, resolution just isn't there. 
It sure looks like the TC are it for me. After eq my upper mids issues, I can enjoy them with most recordings. 
Rad0 for sale.


----------



## vonBaron

InstantSilence said:


> Got the rad0, yes it's smooth, I enjoy its treble, bass is bloated, and they are veiled, resolution just isn't there.
> It sure looks like the TC are it for me. After eq my upper mids issues, I can enjoy them with most recordings.
> Rad0 for sale.


Lol, i told you...


----------



## InstantSilence

vonBaron said:


> Lol, i told you...


I guess it makes it easier... Haha I don't have to even be curious about other stuff. Eqing the Abyss is just fine! They respond so well... Will this resolution ever be surpassed? This is nuts...


----------



## paradoxper

InstantSilence said:


> I guess it makes it easier... Haha I don't have to even be curious about other stuff. Eqing the Abyss is just fine! They respond so well... Will this resolution ever be surpassed? This is nuts...


The 009 out of unobtanium amplification and the SR1a is just about it.


----------



## InstantSilence

paradoxper said:


> The 009 out of unobtanium amplification and the SR1a is just about it.


Please... Please... Edit your post... Spare my pocket.... Spare me.


----------



## paradoxper

InstantSilence said:


> Please... Please... Edit your post... Spare my pocket.... Spare me.


You want to cherry-pick strengths. 

I don't know. 

I came from a DIY T2/009, I ain't never leaving a Abyss...


----------



## InstantSilence

paradoxper said:


> You want to cherry-pick strengths.
> 
> I don't know.
> 
> I came from a DIY T2/009, I ain't never leaving a Abyss...


I'm here. To stay


----------



## jlbrach

paradoxper said:


> The 009 out of unobtanium amplification and the SR1a is just about it.


as detailed as the abyss or susvara are the sr1a has them beat...truly mind boggling detail


----------



## TypodCrowd (Feb 8, 2021)

Fririce0003 said:


> No, not possible, Audeze is 4 pin mini xlr, abyss is 3 pin mini... A 4 pin female will insert into the Abyss but it will short stuff out due to the difference in wiring. I would not advise. A 3 pin mini will not however insert into the Audeze headphones.
> For reference on the Audeze, pin 1&2 are hot and 3&4 being cold. For the abyss, pin 1 is ground, pin 2 is hot and pin 3 is cold. From memory. So inserting the Audeze cable into the abyss will short the signal to ground, your amp will not like this.
> Please note the pin outs may not be exact and are from memory. I did however meter the cables out using my multimeter (Fluke 117) and recall that it would short the amp out.
> Peter does however make short adaptors that can be used at a reasonable price.



Can someone with a multimeter and an abyss stock cable confirm this pinout for the 1266?

I'm especially interested in the distinction between 1 = ground vs 3 = cold. On a headphone connection, I thought there would only be a signal hot and cold with the ground connection either unused or bridged to cold since the cable doesn't have an explicit ground (L+/L-, R+/R-).

Cheers,
Ty

Edit - Seems Abyss has already first-party verified this here:



dotashope said:


> Yep I got the reply from Abyss and it is like your drawing indicates. Pin 1 is negative and 3 is positive, pin 2 is left open. Kinda sad cuz I was hoping for all 3 pins to be utilized


----------



## Litlgi74

jlbrach said:


> as detailed as the abyss or susvara are the sr1a has them beat...truly mind boggling detail


Not looking to stir up trouble... But aren't the Raal's very, very bass lite?


----------



## jlbrach

not bass lite but they clearly do not have the sub bass rumble that the abyss have...a different listen for sure....


----------



## genefruit (Feb 9, 2021)

Delete


----------



## jlbrach

my issue with the new release is with 1.7 when I clicked on the artist it would open to the albums I have on the hard drive I have attached...now I have to do several steps...first go to discography....then click on the button that takes me to the local albums...if I wait long enough it will open to the local albums on the main artist page but it takes forever for some reason


----------



## genefruit (Feb 9, 2021)

delete


----------



## jlbrach

I am using mac


----------



## genefruit (Feb 9, 2021)

delete


----------



## jlbrach

I hope it does the same for me....I will check in a few hours


----------



## jlbrach

I just checked, it does seem to be improving....crossing my fingers


----------



## Litlgi74 (Feb 9, 2021)

genefruit said:


> Fortunately this is fixed in 1.8 released today but very buried.  Pick an artist, go to discography, click focus and select performers, click the view drop down to recordings (from Albums) and finally, sort by popularity


Unfortunately... it has not.

From the Tidal app...



From the LUMIN app (free app)


From Roon 1.8


IMO... Other than portrait mode... I think 1.8 is laughable... and a complete waste of space.

Double checked Steven Wilson... the same.

From the Tidal app


From the LUMIN app


From Roon 1.8


----------



## genefruit (Feb 9, 2021)

delete


----------



## Litlgi74 (Feb 9, 2021)

genefruit said:


> And my Tidal app is nowhere close to your Tidal app but close to my Roon app.  I can't explain the discrepancies between Roon and Tidal.  Perhaps between ours is due to location?  USA here.


I'm in the USA as well... Pennsylvania.

Even my cheap USB Audio Player Pro gets it right.


----------



## InstantSilence

Yeah, its not matching my Tidal either. It is what it is...


----------



## genefruit (Feb 9, 2021)

delete


----------



## qboogie

Sorry guys but is there another place you can talk about roon and tidal?


----------



## Litlgi74 (Feb 9, 2021)

qboogie said:


> Sorry guys but is there another place you can talk about roon and tidal?


Heaven forbid... Let's immediately get back talking about o-rings... Or better yet... days of nothing.


----------



## InstantSilence

I sure wish dekoni or some other maker made pads, just to try different sound bends, at a cheaper price hah


----------



## kamlam

Y’all my Focal Clears used to be my babies but I haven’t even wanted to listen to them recently. I only use them for online classes lol.


----------



## InstantSilence

kamlam said:


> Y’all my Focal Clears used to be my babies but I haven’t even wanted to listen to them recently. I only use them for online classes lol.


I recently heard the rad0 
The Verite 0,the Stellia
None of it rocks like the TC does, in transparency and ultimately resolution... Just all of it. 
The stellia was detailed but just not rhythmic enough for my picky a$$. 
The Verite has this weird reverb I couldn't ignore, the rad0 was smooth and pleasant, chill listen, but i wanted more precise imaging. 

When did I get so spoiled... 
I do miss the 4z.
I just worry if I had a few tracks worth of listen, I'd get dissapointed 

Abyss TC is the new benchmark for me... 

In the past week I've been putting them through disrespectful amounts of EQ, compressors, de essers, other *darkening* effects in order of fixing my sensitivity from 1 to 5k range... (ultimately fixed up), and even after gutting the TCs technical prowess while trying to fix my issues, I noticed how flexible these things are even when you EQ to - 8 or - 9db with tight Qs. They just don't collapse. It's nuts. I got them dark in some instances just to play around, to experiment and learn more dsp. 
And even in its dark form, clarity,, separation, transparency and detail Is all effortlessly presented.. It's outstanding! 

I think I might sleep with it tonight, who knows how we will fool around.


----------



## paradoxper

Litlgi74 said:


> Heaven forbid... Let's immediately get back talking about o-rings... Or better yet... days of nothing.


Cables. Please!!!!!


----------



## kamlam

InstantSilence said:


> I recently heard the rad0
> The Verite 0,the Stellia
> None of it rocks like the TC does, in transparency and ultimately resolution... Just all of it.
> The stellia was detailed but just not rhythmic enough for my picky a$$.
> ...


Haha I’ll have to mess around with some EQ. I want to try some Susvaras but I’m not sure how to get ahold of a pair. I’ll probably be selling the Clears soon to fund another pair. Susvaras, Empys, HD800s, Stellia are on my radar.


----------



## InstantSilence (Feb 10, 2021)

kamlam said:


> Haha I’ll have to mess around with some EQ. I want to try some Susvaras but I’m not sure how to get ahold of a pair. I’ll probably be selling the Clears soon to fund another pair. Susvaras, Empys, HD800s, Stellia are on my radar.


Well add the newly released Abyss 2193 to the list!
Its steep in cash, like all things abyss, but 93mm, can you imagine?

Just messing with your pockets guys is all.


----------



## ra990 (Feb 10, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> Well add the newly released Abyss 2193 to the list!
> Its steep in cash, like all things abyss, but 93mm, can you imagine?
> 
> Just messing with your pockets guys is all.


You had me, damn you. There'll be an Abyss FF (final fantasy) version before the 2193 is unveiled shortly after.


----------



## PhazeCrive

They were talking about cables and the superconductor a few days ago but I didn't quite get a clear picture. Sure, it's a technical and material upgrade but is the sound an upgrade from stock? Is the soundstage and bass better with proper burn-in?


----------



## Darkliner

PhazeCrive said:


> They were talking about cables and the superconductor a few days ago but I didn't quite get a clear picture. Sure, it's a technical and material upgrade but is the sound an upgrade from stock? Is the soundstage and bass better with proper burn-in?



It is an upgrade from the stock in most areas.


----------



## InstantSilence

Any TC frequency response graph without smoothing available?


----------



## 340519

koven said:


> You can stuff a wool sock into your TC cups for that Empyrean effect.


Nah, I own both the Empyreans and TC Phis, and they're both excellent.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

just checking in, did anyone who recently placed an order for the TC's got their headphones ? I placed mine on 28th and it's not even finished making yet.


----------



## 340519

Mine took 2.5 months from ordering to receiving them last summer.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

Were you charged full amount when you placed the order or did you just have to place a deposit


----------



## 340519

PortableAudioLover said:


> Were you charged full amount when you placed the order or did you just have to place a deposit


I payed all up front, something like 6700 cad.


----------



## ra990

My dealer had told me 6-8 weeks from order. They are hand made and COVID and all that. They're worth the wait.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

ra990 said:


> My dealer had told me 6-8 weeks from order. They are hand made and COVID and all that. They're worth the wait.


thanks for letting me know


----------



## PhazeCrive

Bring on the Abyss 2193. 7,000 USD


----------



## PortableAudioLover

PhazeCrive said:


> Bring on the Abyss 2193. 7,000 USD


Is that a real thing


----------



## tkam

Nope


----------



## ken6217

PortableAudioLover said:


> Is that a real thing



But the Abyss 1266 XTC is. Got it last week. Incredible. More bass slam, Larger soundstage, 200 grams lighter, titanium O Rings, mink lined corinthian leather head band. Came with upgraded Super Conductor cable. Even makes the GTX mini sound passable.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

ken6217 said:


> But the Abyss 1266 XTC is. Got it last week. Incredible. More bass slam, Larger soundstage, 200 grams lighter, titanium O Rings, mink lined corinthian leather head band. Came with upgraded Super Conductor cable. Even makes the GTX mini sound passable.


Im jealous


----------



## jlbrach

no such thing...


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> no such thing...


Burden of proof...


----------



## JLoud

I am curious about the closed back they mentioned in a couple of their YouTube videos.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Burden of proof...



I’d take a picture of them, but I can’t get them off my head they’re so comfortable. I went running with them earlier connected to my iPod and I’m currently laying on my pillow with them. This headband is like butter, and the titanium O-rings are genius.


----------



## jlbrach

strangely there is no such thing offered or mentioned on their website


----------



## ken6217

It’s only for early adopters by invitation only.

Oh, I forgot to mention the exquisite case that comes in. The wood absolutely matches my Elie Bleu humidor.


----------



## tholt (Feb 11, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> strangely there is no such thing offered or mentioned on their website


Duuuuude. You're my new patsy


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> It’s only for early adopters by invitation only.
> 
> Oh, I forgot to mention the exquisite case that comes in. The wood absolutely matches my Elie Bleu humidor.


@jlbrach is in such disbelief!


----------



## tholt

I'm on the waiting list. They only had one available.


----------



## ahossam

In addition to Sagra DAC, Chord Qutest looks like a perfect choice for Formula S, its small and good looking, but what about sound? Is it good enough for Formula S? Or should I get Sagra Instead.


----------



## Bonddam

The Cipher DAC is crazy good, it's hard not to analyze the liquidy highs and holographic nature of this DAC. It's a step up from the TT2. The HeadTrip 2 and Cipher makes me think I'm using a tube setup.


----------



## Slim1970

Bonddam said:


> The Cipher DAC is crazy good, it's hard not to analyze the liquidy highs and holographic nature of this DAC. It's a step up from the TT2. The HeadTrip 2 and Cipher makes me think I'm using a tube setup.


What’s the Cipher DAC?


----------



## Bonddam (Feb 12, 2021)

Slim1970 said:


> What’s the Cipher DAC?


Wells Audio Tube DAC using ess 9038pro chip.


----------



## InstantSilence

Hey guys 

So I ask this hear as you guys have the same TC, so I need to hear your impressions on my attempt to smooth out tracks without loosing info the best I can and to mellow down treble and upper mid peaks. 


I'll upload a section of a track.. About 20 seconds long of a passage with spiky (to me) treble. 
This is with no eq applied or any other DSP. 

The 2nd track will be same section, but edited by me with a limiter/compressor. To tone down the peaks in treble
The changes allows me to listen with most confort and 0 fatigue now.

But I wonder, if you, individual, take notice of anything else missing from the track... If what I've down destroys other aspects of the track. 

If that's OK, I'll upload shortly? 
If you have time.


----------



## zenlisten

InstantSilence said:


> So I ask this hear as you guys have the same TC, so I need to hear your impressions on my attempt to smooth out tracks without loosing info the best I can and to mellow down treble and upper mid peaks.



It's soon midnight here but tomorrow I can give it a try.

 I'm still wondering why this is happening to you. I am very sensitive to piercing sounds but never had any such issues with the Abyss and this system (HMS/TT2). However, two years ago I had to buy another set of cables for the Sony MDR-Z1Rs because some tracks were almost painful to listen to. (Fortunately, the new cables made those tracks acceptable.)


----------



## InstantSilence

zenlisten said:


> It's soon midnight here but tomorrow I can give it a try.
> 
> I'm still wondering why this is happening to you. I am very sensitive to piercing sounds but never had any such issues with the Abyss and this system (HMS/TT2). However, two years ago I had to buy another set of cables for the Sony MDR-Z1Rs because some tracks were almost painful to listen to. (Fortunately, the new cables made those tracks acceptable.)


Its not the system, it's my ears... I have soemthing happening, I think fluid in the middle ear. I got ent appointments coming.. Maybe slight hyperacusis. 

But here next post is the edited stuff which totally fixed my issue...


----------



## InstantSilence (Feb 12, 2021)

Normal file
https://mega.nz/file/Ut4mGSpL#5DXdQnr3lHsTUkTJ50_5lOYCS8vu6yItDKMrmEKVWZo


Edited

https://mega.nz/file/Us42nCiY#hTXP3ztCRBKa4HddyxL28sqDnnuupak-ULWgjLmAT2c


This is not eq, its a slight compressor, but really a limiter of *spikes of DB*
It took 2 hrs to get it to sound this way, but now that I know it's just a few Mins.

My question to you guys is, with the TC, do you find any information missing? I tried my best to only smooth the spikes and bite, but not take any *instrument * away.  Let me know what I can do better.

Thanks so much, I appreciate any who takes the time.

Same DB on both, it just seems I can turn up the volume on the edited one, for a funner, fatigue free listen

But how to implenet such software or plug ins with roon? Probably no way. 

Anyways.. You guys are probably just enjoying your tracks right now... Eq pain free... I envy you


----------



## attmci

InstantSilence said:


> Normal file
> https://mega.nz/file/Ut4mGSpL#5DXdQnr3lHsTUkTJ50_5lOYCS8vu6yItDKMrmEKVWZo
> 
> 
> ...


The 32Bit original one sounds better.


----------



## InstantSilence

attmci said:


> The 32Bit original one sounds better.


Yes it always was gonna.
I didn't output the edited in the right format, I'm still learning.

My question was if you see a decline in resolution and clarity in the edited version. I notice the mellow treble, which is also quiter by 2db,but I also have the 32 bit output.


----------



## ra990

InstantSilence said:


> Hey guys
> 
> So I ask this hear as you guys have the same TC, so I need to hear your impressions on my attempt to smooth out tracks without loosing info the best I can and to mellow down treble and upper mid peaks.
> 
> ...


I'm using my susvara right now, still waiting on the TC to arrive. Second one definitely sounds smoother and less peaky/bright but without sacrificing too much of the top end detail. I can see how it would be less fatiguing if that's what you're listening to for hours.


----------



## InstantSilence

ra990 said:


> I'm using my susvara right now, still waiting on the TC to arrive. Second one definitely sounds smoother and less peaky/bright but without sacrificing too much of the top end detail. I can see how it would be less fatiguing if that's what you're listening to for hours.


Its all I lsiten too


----------



## ra990

InstantSilence said:


> Its all I lsiten too


I was hoping that wasn't the case


----------



## InstantSilence

ra990 said:


> I was hoping that wasn't the case


80s rock and pop, some jazz. But mostly electronic, lots of layers, minimal, ect.
Just most of those recordings are done in apartments, amateur stuff. And so.. Mastered according to user lvl.

The common tracks, well known and well done don't have this sibilance and artificial punch to the transients.
The TC just pulls all details and layered so expertly... I love it doing that. 
And now. Due to Smooth 2 vst3 plugin... The bad recordings can be tolerable for peoplr like me too.


----------



## Ravatar

Recently got the Diana v2 and love the headphone. So, looking for a 1266...
I understand the 1266 is better than v2 in every aspect, can someone describe the difference between 1266 and Diana?


----------



## bagofolives

Ravatar said:


> Recently got the Diana v2 and love the headphone. So, looking for a 1266...
> I understand the 1266 is better than v2 in every aspect, can someone describe the difference between 1266 and Diana?


The differences for me are the the larger bass, larger soundstage, a bit more detail, and a bit smoother treble compared to Diana v2.  Of course the fit is also a very different experience with tinkering around with how it sits on your head is a bit more involved that Diana v2. I've heard Diana Phi is closer to 1266 but without as large of bass or soundstage if that's a potential consideration.


----------



## Ravatar

bagofolives said:


> The differences for me are the the larger bass, larger soundstage, a bit more detail, and a bit smoother treble compared to Diana v2.  Of course the fit is also a very different experience with tinkering around with how it sits on your head is a bit more involved that Diana v2. I've heard Diana Phi is closer to 1266 but without as large of bass or soundstage if that's a potential consideration.


Thank you for the comparison. It appears the biggest differences are bass and soundstage. How is the difference in midrange, especially vocal?


----------



## bagofolives

On 1266 midrange vocals can get lost when you crank it and the vocals aren't really center.  I've had it happen on some binaural recordings.  On Diana v2 I didn't really have that kind of issue just because everything was kind of up in your head.


----------



## kernel8888

I ended up keeping the v2 over the phi cc, between the size and set it/forget it, also the sound wasn’t better to me, just different with trade offs


----------



## Ravatar

kernel8888 said:


> I ended up keeping the v2 over the phi cc, between the size and set it/forget it, also the sound wasn’t better to me, just different with trade offs


Interesting. Can you explain more about the sound? Comfort wise, no doubt v2 would be much better.


----------



## kernel8888

It’s been a while since comparing- but head to head I felt like the v2 was a little more cohesive overall, and overall tone and technicalities were so close that I’d have to literally switch back and forth and look for certain differences with a microscope to find them.

and when the differences are that small, they become non factors when you sit back and actually listen and quit the madness of a/b trsting

I had the 1266 Phi cc for about 2 months and had the v2 for about a month of that time and concluded the v2 was a little warmer and more musical

only thing is a little more grand large staging and a little deeper bass extension on the 1266

but for me it comes down to preference more than better/worse as I had the opportunity to own either for within $200 of each other Price wise


----------



## Ravatar

kernel8888 said:


> It’s been a while since comparing- but head to head I felt like the v2 was a little more cohesive overall, and overall tone and technicalities were so close that I’d have to literally switch back and forth and look for certain differences with a microscope to find them.
> 
> and when the differences are that small, they become non factors when you sit back and actually listen and quit the madness of a/b trsting
> 
> ...


Thank you. Good to know that these two headphones are quite close. I was expecting a huge improvement from v2 to 1266.


----------



## TDinCali

I have the V2 and the 1266 TC. The 1266 are faster, more analytical, with more bass and kick. I enjoy both. If I could only have one, it would be the 1266 TC for me. For my mobile setup I could live with a Hifiman arya or a focal but luckily I have all of them so I don't have to choose.


----------



## MSA1133

Ravatar said:


> Thank you. Good to know that these two headphones are quite close. I was expecting a huge improvement from v2 to 1266.



Keep in mind that the Abyss 1266 require a lot of good & clean power to sound their best. It's a big improvement for me when running them on my Chord stack. I love the Diana V2 for its flexability and ease of use on the go.

The 1266s are more grand, with deep low rumbling bass, excellent mids and detailed highs without being sibilant.


----------



## Ravatar

MSA1133 said:


> Keep in mind that the Abyss 1266 require a lot of good & clean power to sound their best. It's a big improvement for me when running them on my Chord stack. I love the Diana V2 for its flexability and ease of use on the go.
> 
> The 1266s are more grand, with deep low rumbling bass, excellent mids and detailed highs without being sibilant.


Diana V2 is the best headphone so far I've heard. If there is any improvement I wish to have would be more bass, and that's also the reason 1266 appeals to me. By the way, how does the utopia compare to the Abyss (v2 and 1266)?


----------



## ahossam

To anyone who own Formula S + Powerman, what DACs did you guys use? 

I was thinking about Denafrips Pontus II or Sagra, but I think Sagra resale value is not good when you want to sell it alone.


----------



## E-norm

Jeweltopia said:


> My biggest issue with the Abyss vs the Empyrean is that the Abyss feels like it lacks emotion. It feels a bit cold, emotionally distant, etc.



May I just ask what you did to remedy this? I'm having the exact same impression after going from Empyrean and Stellia to the Abyss. 

I've only had them for about a week and their technical abilities are tremendous, they're comfortable and I get the great bass response everyone's talking about. Yet, I'm missing the chills I would get from a good vocal on the Empyreans. Emotional distant is the perfect word for how they feel at the moment. I'm using a Hugo TT2 as DAC/amp and it doesn't sound like anything is missing per se but still...


----------



## MSA1133

Ravatar said:


> Diana V2 is the best headphone so far I've heard. If there is any improvement I wish to have would be more bass, and that's also the reason 1266 appeals to me. By the way, how does the utopia compare to the Abyss (v2 and 1266)?



I've posted a quick subjective feedback some pages back regarding the Utopias vs the Diana V2, this while having them running on my Chord stack. I've added it below. 



MSA1133 said:


> As for the Utopia comparison, the Utopias are definitely faster, has better transients and more detailed. The V2 have a much much better low end, wider Soundstage, similar imaging and less fatiguing treble! Oh and the build quality is definitely premium on both but I find myself loving the Dianas more.



The 1266 are bass kings with deep reaching low-end that the Utopias can't match, both of them might sound analytical or cold unless paired with a suitable AMP. For me, the Chord M-Scaler slightly alleviates this issue. The 1266 has a much larger soundstage than the Utopias. For me and my ears, once I got the 1266 and Diana V2s, I've shelved my Focal in storage. It's still a fantastic and technical headphone, but I'm a sucker for great low-end and wide soundstages.


----------



## MSA1133

E-norm said:


> May I just ask what you did to remedy this? I'm having the exact same impression after going from Empyrean and Stellia to the Abyss.
> 
> I've only had them for about a week and their technical abilities are tremendous, they're comfortable and I get the great bass response everyone's talking about. Yet, I'm missing the chills I would get from a good vocal on the Empyreans. Emotional distant is the perfect word for how they feel at the moment. I'm using a Hugo TT2 as DAC/amp and it doesn't sound like anything is missing per se but still...



If you don't have the M-Scaler for your TT2, try messing around with the filters and crossfeed (XFD). I'm sure you'll find something that would pair quite well with your TCs. 

Also what are your sources? This also might give us some more info. Many of the members here are pairing their TCs with Tube amps such as the WooAudio WA33, in my case, the TCs sound lush when used on the Cayin HA-6A tube amp fed by Hugo 2 as a DAC.


----------



## qboogie

E-norm said:


> May I just ask what you did to remedy this? I'm having the exact same impression after going from Empyrean and Stellia to the Abyss.
> 
> I've only had them for about a week and their technical abilities are tremendous, they're comfortable and I get the great bass response everyone's talking about. Yet, I'm missing the chills I would get from a good vocal on the Empyreans. Emotional distant is the perfect word for how they feel at the moment. I'm using a Hugo TT2 as DAC/amp and it doesn't sound like anything is missing per se but still...


I'll take a bite. You should really consider getting  the Superconductor cable then. It brings  a richness and forwardness to the mids/vocals that is missing from the stock. The change in flavor reminds me a lot of the Empyrean actually. A few pages back I gave it a decent review, with  comparisons to Norne Silvergarde S3 and Forza Noir Hybrid cables. Both had more fleshed out vocals than stock.

Joe Skubinski recommended burning the cable in for  75 hrs. I burned them for 85 hrs just to be sure. I am happy to report a noticeable and worthwhile change. The treble is more crisp than it was before, with more air. Even before burn-in, SC treble is still smoother compared to the stock treble. 

As for the SC bass, there is more sub-bass rumble than before, which agrees with Joe's prediction of more extended bass response. As for the bass impact, I honestly can't tell if there is a change. I was really hoping the bass experience could match the visceral power of the other 3 cables but it still falls a little short. Bass detail and body with my ears in the correct position (I notice that when my ears are closer to  the front of the earcup the impact is huge, but at the cost of bass timbre/detail/body) are satisfactory and well-heard, but not as well-felt.

I haven't learned any new electrophysics since my pre-med college days, but I'm wondering if the thicker alumiloy wire gauge on the SC is responsible for this reduced bass (to be fair, still far better than other headphones). Does anyone know if thicker wire gauges also reduce the perceived volume? Volume matching comparisons are a pain because my set up requires the use of XLR3 adapters for the TT2, and mini XLR3 Abyss adapters when using other 3rd party cables. Switching is laborious. 

TL;DR version. For better tonality in the vocals range, try different cables. The SC achieves what I think you're looking for and does get slightly better after 75hr burn-in. The difference is slight but much appreciated. Added bonus for TT2 users, Filter 4 rolls off some treble and adds a smidge more lower mids.


----------



## InstantSilence

Switching from TC to lcd4z or so I think I am, got a 4z coming, looking for it to be more relaxing for my sensitivity issue. Will sure miss TC bass


----------



## paradoxper

InstantSilence said:


> Switching from TC to lcd4z or so I think I am, got a 4z coming, looking for it to be more relaxing for my sensitivity issue. Will sure miss TC bass


It's time you switch your system to better suite the TC.


----------



## InstantSilence

paradoxper said:


> It's time you switch your system to better suite the TC.


Maybe so. I got a Milo amp coming, but that's as much as I'll go in -*testing* the TC further 
My issue is ear sensitivity so it's why I'm having to get a warmer less transient punchy approach. But my God, I hate myself for even considering selling the TC
Maybe I won't, maybe I'll hear it all out and decide în a week. Definitely giving it a week


----------



## paradoxper

InstantSilence said:


> Maybe so. I got a Milo amp coming, but that's as much as I'll go in -*testing* the TC further
> My issue is ear sensitivity so it's why I'm having to get a warmer less transient punchy approach. But my God, I hate myself for even considering selling the TC
> Maybe I won't, maybe I'll hear it all out and decide în a week. Definitely giving it a week


I hope you'll find the cause to the ear sensitivity. And then, well, maybe you'll find your path.


----------



## tkam

ahossam said:


> To anyone who own Formula S + Powerman, what DACs did you guys use?
> 
> I was thinking about Denafrips Pontus II or Sagra, but I think Sagra resale value is not good when you want to sell it alone.



I haven't heard the Pontus II but the Venus II is a wonderful dac and is what I use with my Abyss rig.


----------



## jlbrach

I have been using the chord dave/blu2


----------



## ken6217

InstantSilence said:


> Switching from TC to lcd4z or so I think I am, got a 4z coming, looking for it to be more relaxing for my sensitivity issue. Will sure miss TC bass



Any difference in sound between the 4 and 4Z?


----------



## InstantSilence

ken6217 said:


> Any difference in sound between the 4 and 4Z?


I've had just about 20 Mins with the lcd4.  Keep in mind I also have sensitivity to upper mids lower treble. 

I found the lcd4 to be hollow, even in that upper mid lower treble like I like. But too much, feels like a chunk of music is just not there, low presense and gets eaten up by lower mids and upper treble. 
The 4z is similar (lol) but has more energy slight more elevation in that upper mid/low treble. 
And while I find the TC relatively tolerable in comfort... The lcd4 weight distribution is way bulky and heavy. The 4z while still a heavy can, far more comfortable. 
I prefer the 4z, more energy, somehow allows those annoying claps and snares (annoying to me as I'm sensitive to fast slamming transients) it allows them to come through with far less edge and bite. 
Im gonna have to barely apply any soothing effects to the via vst3 as they just make things sound forgiving yet resolving. 

Definitely not anywhere near as resolving as the TC (but not near as aggressive either) 
Still it provides awesome resolution and somehow forgives recordings while pushing details, I feel to me, that's where it's specialty is. It also supposedly handles EQ very nicely so can't wait to gunk it up and see what it does.


----------



## ken6217

InstantSilence said:


> I've had just about 20 Mins with the lcd4.  Keep in mind I also have sensitivity to upper mids lower treble.
> 
> I found the lcd4 to be hollow, even in that upper mid lower treble like I like. But too much, feels like a chunk of music is just not there, low presense and gets eaten up by lower mids and upper treble.
> The 4z is similar (lol) but has more energy slight more elevation in that upper mid/low treble.
> ...



How is the bass compared to the TC?

I had the LCD4 a few years ago. It was heavy. Also the soundstage was not big. I also found back then that if you tried a few different LCD4's, there was a consistent sound between them.


----------



## InstantSilence

ken6217 said:


> How is the bass compared to the TC?
> 
> I had the LCD4 a few years ago. It was heavy. Also the soundstage was not big. I also found back then that if you tried a few different LCD4's, there was a consistent sound between them.


It had nice bass, it was very linear, clearly and very textured, it was awesome 

TC beats in în tightness, resolution and separation. 
TC is the better can in my views.


----------



## JLoud

The LCD4 is warmer with much lusher mids. The bass on the LCD4 is excellent, just different from the TC. I have and love both. If vocals or mids are your thing the LCD4 is definitely worth adding to your stable. I love it for Blues or rock.


----------



## Roasty

I just received a pair of JPS Superconductor 4 xlr cables from @F208Frank. Is anyone else using these cables? What do you think about them? 

Geez man.. They're so good. I think they are outperforming my "reference" cables (Cerious Technologies Graphene Matrix). I'm going to do some more listening tonight and going to try some quick a/b, and so worried that they really are that good because then soon after I'd be thinking about the Aluminata lineup..


----------



## F208Frank

Roasty said:


> I just received a pair of JPS Superconductor 4 xlr cables from @F208Frank. Is anyone else using these cables? What do you think about them?
> 
> Geez man.. They're so good. I think they are outperforming my "reference" cables (Cerious Technologies Graphene Matrix). I'm going to do some more listening tonight and going to try some quick a/b, and so worried that they really are that good because then soon after I'd be thinking about the Aluminata lineup..



He got them at such a crazy good price too... yeah they are quite amazing for cables.


----------



## Roasty

Really enjoying this with the TC Phi. 
May be a bit much for those who are treble sensitive though..


----------



## InstantSilence

Roasty said:


> Really enjoying this with the TC Phi.
> May be a bit much for those who are treble sensitive though..


Lol! I love that album and yes, I'm super sensitive to treble and it sure hurts without any Dsp. 
Nothing some soothe 2 can't fix (vst3 plugin)


----------



## bpcans (Feb 16, 2021)

Has anybody on this forum purchased their Abyss 1266 Phi TC’s slightly used, or have been able to get a good deal on a new pair of them? Also, what would be a good price for used 1266 phi tc’s in relatively good condition? After talking with Joe Skubinski at JPS/Abyss yesterday morning, he said of course, that going to the website and paying full price for the “lite edition” would be super easy, and that I’d get their latest version in about 3 weeks. Well I’m just trying to look at all purchasing options because I think the 1266’s would be a good compliment to my Focal Utopia’s. Any help would be great. BTW, I listen mostly to classical, a lot of opera, and a good deal of jazz.


----------



## Roasty

bpcans said:


> and that I’d get their latest version in about 3 weeks.



Whooooa there... What latest version is this..??


----------



## paradoxper

$4200 relative resale value. You can find them new from dealers for a very attractive price.

Roasty, by latest I'm sure Joe was alluding to the updated headband.


----------



## Roasty

paradoxper said:


> $4200 relative resale value. You can find them new from dealers for a very attractive price.
> 
> Roasty, by latest I'm sure Joe was alluding to the updated headband.



Ooh OK.. 
I thought maybe.. TC Phi 2.0 ultra extreme edition.


----------



## paradoxper

Roasty said:


> Ooh OK..
> I thought maybe.. TC Phi 2.0 ultra extreme edition.


Nods.
You mean @ken6217's edition.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Nods.
> You mean @ken6217's edition.



I got my ass chewed out for discussing it online. Repeat after me. It does not exist.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Bring on the Abyss 2193.

Could you imagine the weight bass and extra large soundstage on something like that?


----------



## InstantSilence

I think it's gonna be a while since they just released the Diana Phi Closed. 
And senn just released the Hd900 dual dynamic.


----------



## DJJEZ

InstantSilence said:


> I think it's gonna be a while since they just released the Diana Phi Closed.
> And senn just released the Hd900 dual dynamic.



HD900?


----------



## JLoud

I’ve been waiting for a closed Abyss. I’m still waiting as I haven’t seen anything released yet. Hinted at yes, announced no.


----------



## DJJEZ

JLoud said:


> I’ve been waiting for a closed Abyss. I’m still waiting as I haven’t seen anything released yet. Hinted at yes, announced no.



It's coming for sure. They are always hinting at it in their YouTube videos


----------



## attmci

DJJEZ said:


> HD900?


The 900 was released many years ago. You mean 900S?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-hd-900-rumors.439815/


----------



## littlej0e

Question for you gents: I have a pair of Abyss 1266 Phi TC's coming and plan to run them on my IFi Pro ICAN and an ADI-2 DAC setup. Would it actually be worth upgrading to a better AMP/DAC combo like the Eleven Audio XIAUDIO Formula S + Sagra?

Are we talking about a very big, highly noticeable difference in performance or a slight 5-10% bump with severely diminishing returns to the point where I may not even be able to tell the difference?


----------



## JLoud

At this level 5-10% is a big jump. I would give your current setup a chance. Get to know the headphones and see if there is anything you might want to tweak (mids or treble). Then pick a amp that does that. Eleven Audio or Woo WA33 or WA5 are good places to start.


----------



## ra990

My advice is not to preemptively jump to a higher end system. Keep your very capable pro iCan and ADI-2 and enjoy the Abyss headphones with it. Then, when you inevitably upgrade, you'll appreciate what the higher end system provides....or maybe you won't hear enough of a difference to justify the upgrades. You'll never know though if you jump to it right away.


----------



## smodtactical

For those of you with Susvara and TC. What made you keep the Susvara as part of your collection? What did it offer you over the TC ?


----------



## ra990

smodtactical said:


> For those of you with Susvara and TC. What made you keep the Susvara as part of your collection? What did it offer you over the TC ?


There's a few reasons, but I suspect comfort and ergonomics are going to be at the top of most people's list. I think their sound signatures actually compliment each other really well.


----------



## simorag

smodtactical said:


> For those of you with Susvara and TC. What made you keep the Susvara as part of your collection? What did it offer you over the TC ?



From a purely sonic standpoint, the main advantage I found on the Susvara over the TC is their midrange presentation. Vocals, strings and piano, for example, are significantly better - both more pleasingly and more accurately - reproduced on the Susvara especially if focusing on timbre / tonality (spatial information rendering, imaging, decay structure, detail retrieval, transparency were a whole different story).

Another differentiator is the type of involvment with music listening the Susvara presents, which is towards a more relaxed, comforting and reassuring experience, where the AB-1266 is more exciting, engaging and challenging.

I ended up selling the Susvara, but ideally I would have been very happy to own both, although my overall preference strongly goes to the AB-1266.


----------



## Slim1970

simorag said:


> From a purely sonic standpoint, the main advantage I found on the Susvara over the TC is their midrange presentation. Vocals, strings and piano, for example, are significantly better - both more pleasingly and more accurately - reproduced on the Susvara especially if focusing on timbre / tonality (spatial information rendering, imaging, decay structure, detail retrieval, transparency were a whole different story).
> 
> Another differentiator is the type of involvment with music listening the Susvara presents, which is towards a more relaxed, comforting and reassuring experience, where the AB-1266 is more exciting, engaging and challenging.
> 
> I ended up selling the Susvara, but ideally I would have been very happy to own both, although my overall preference strongly goes to the AB-1266.


I would agree with this and it’s the main reason I keep both. The way each of these headphones present music is first rate. There is no clear best between the Susvara’s and TC’s. They both envelope you in music even though their take on sound is very different. I feel fortunate to own both of these world class headphones. I couldn’t imagine what it would cost to replicate the sound of these headphones in a 2-channel setup. When you put it in that perspective, these headphones are truly a bargain.


----------



## littlej0e (Feb 19, 2021)

Sorry in advance to both of you, and everyone else in this forum, for the enormous wall of text...TLDR at the bottom.



JLoud said:


> At this level 5-10% is a big jump. I would give your current setup a chance. Get to know the headphones and see if there is anything you might want to tweak (mids or treble). Then pick a amp that does that. Eleven Audio or Woo WA33 or WA5 are good places to start.



Thanks for your response, JLoud, and you are absolutely right; a 5-10% is indeed a big jump. I was wondering if the differences would be a jaw-dropping versus a "meh, yeah, it's a little better but not 4k worth of better." In the end, I just want to make sure I'm not gimping the Abyss TCs with my current setup and can use them to their full potential. I don't mind spending another 5-10k to properly experience the 1266's, but only for a clearly superior -not subtle- result. The most important traits for me are "impactfulness," imaging, detail, holographics, and soundstage (in that order, from left to right ----->) Please let me explain why...

I have a moderate-to-severe form of synesthesia where certain types of music can put me into an overwhelming, euphoric, almost out-of-body trance. Some music can make me feel like I'm falling and others can release overwhelmingly vivid imagery with an enormous rush of endorphins. Sort of like viewing a highly emotionally-triggering photograph that you can feel move from the pit of your stomach to the back of your head combined with a euphoric sexual orgasm. It's really difficult to describe... This may sound like a wonderful condition for a burgeoning audiophile, but the truth is I have found it to be more of a curse than a blessing. It can be very physically and mentally taxing. So much so, that I have actually avoided listening to music for most of my life (I tend to sing or hum to myself in the car instead of listening to the radio for example) due to the effect it can have on me.

Now, at almost 40 years old, I finally decided to stop running from this condition and embrace it so I pieced together a higher-end system about a month ago. Given the “stupidly orgasmic” results I am now wondering if an ultra-high end system would make sense for my rather unique use case and result in any net gain in euphoric “audiogasms” .  My current set up is below:


Windows/Linux desktop computer (FLAC) straight from the motherboard without any EQ or on-board processing
Dan Clark Ether C Flows w/v 1.1 mod
iFi Pro iCAN with Western Electric 396A/2C51 tubes (I enjoy both the solid state and tube modes, but SS mode feels more "impactful.” Again, I am not even sure what that means or why it feels that way, but that is the best way I can describe it).
RME ADI-2 DAC FS v1

Given the additional context above, would you still recommend sticking with my current system or go with the Formula S/something else? If the results are stark and not subtle, I would absolutely take the plunge.



ra990 said:


> My advice is not to preemptively jump to a higher end system. Keep your very capable pro iCan and ADI-2 and enjoy the Abyss headphones with it. Then, when you inevitably upgrade, you'll appreciate what the higher end system provides....or maybe you won't hear enough of a difference to justify the upgrades. You'll never know though if you jump to it right away.



Solid advice and I appreciate it, ra990! Given the additional context above, would you still have the same opinion? Also, for even greater context, due to my musical abstinence I never really listened to a lot of non-mainstream stuff other than being casually exposed to fringe music like Pentatonic, Naturally 7, and Apocalyptica (they all do amazing things to me). About a week ago, I discovered something called new retro wave. All I can say is..._HOLY F@#ING S*%T_!!! The melodic trance-like flows combined with the ridiculous imaging structures do things I don't have the vocabulary to describe. I can only listen for a couple of minutes before I have to take a break. If this is what happens with Ether Cs on this setup, I am honestly a little afraid of what the Abyss 1266's are going to do. Can you confirm that the Abyss 1266's will perform significantly better for my "immersive" and impactful" use case? Also, given my newfound love of new retro wave are there any other genres of music you would recommend?

*TL;DR*
I'm in way over my head and looking for some guidance based on my rather unique use case (see above). I have plenty of money to spend, but little-to-no experience (more money than sense for sure). I would certainly appreciate any info or guidance you, or anyone else, would be willing to provide.

My limited research suggests the XI Audio Formula S is likely the best SS amp to pair with the Abyss 1266's. However, given the additional context above, and given your considerable experience with a wide range of amps and DACs (specifically those paired with the Abyss 1266), would you still recommend I stay with what I have or upgrade to something else? Specifically, something that has noticeably better imaging and more “impactfulness?” Would you replace the amp, but not the DAC? Etc.?!?


----------



## DJJEZ

what custom cables is everyone using with their 1266 Tc's? pics please as well if possible


----------



## Ciggavelli

littlej0e said:


> Sorry in advance to both of you, and everyone else in this forum, for the enormous wall of text...TLDR at the bottom.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I also have synesthesia.  I assumed most audiophiles had synethesia, but in another thread people were saying they didn't have it.  For me, a really detailed dac (like a Chord DAVE) and a tube amp (like a WA33) produces extremely clear, unfiltered imaging, spacial positioning, and colors.  I feel you need a clinical dac (not necessarily Chord, maybe dCS or MSB), and a tube amp (not necessarily a WA33, there are lots of options) to get a more 3D effect.  The TC, Susvara, and SR1a produces the clearest images for me.  I had the LCD4z, HD800, Utopias and they didn't produce the same level of clarity. 

Is there a reason why you want a SS amp vs tube amp?


----------



## Roasty

@littlej0e 

I find the TC Phi on the Milo Ref a really wonderful combo. I have the wa33 too and the TC Phi sounds amazing out of that tube amp as well, but there is a nice snappiness and immediacy of sound when the TC is paired with the Milo which I seem to enjoy a lot. I am even considering going for the headtrip ii or trying out their new tube amp when it gets released. 

I've not tried the formula/powerman combo so don't know how that compares to the Milo.


----------



## littlej0e (Feb 19, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> I also have synesthesia.  I assumed most audiophiles had synethesia, but in another thread people were saying they didn't have it.  For me, a really detailed dac (like a Chord DAVE) and a tube amp (like a WA33) produces extremely clear, unfiltered imaging, spacial positioning, and colors.  I feel you need a clinical dac (not necessarily Chord, maybe dCS or MSB), and a tube amp (not necessarily a WA33, there are lots of options) to get a more 3D effect.  The TC, Susvara, and SR1a produces the clearest images for me.  I had the LCD4z, HD800, Utopias and they didn't produce the same level of clarity.
> 
> Is there a reason why you want a SS amp vs tube amp?



Oh, thank god! You are absolutely the guy I need to speak with!!!!!! Good to know I'm not alone! This has been nuts to deal with for SO long...

Nope, no real reason I want a SS other than it gives me better "impact," "feels," and imagery on the iCAN versus the tube and tube+ modes w/WE 396A tubes. I have literally no other experience to compare it to, just the iCAN. As for amps, if you guys (and you in particular) get better "symptoms" from tubes and an uber-clinical DAC I'm totally down. I will 100% take your advice here as I'm pretty much flying blind. I want the absolute best 3D imagery, spatial positioning, "impactfullness," and clarity I can possibly get. So if you had to pick the ultimate synesthesia setup what would it be? Also, the million dollar question for me is; does the highest of the high-end stuff produce better "symptoms" for people like us compared to "just" high-end? If so, I have my credit card standing by and I will sell my old kit here on Head-fi straight away. Much like you, I tried a couple of other headphones like the HD-820s, but I ended up selling them because the Ether Cs blew them almost completely out of the water from a symptoms and imactfullness perspective. I honestly have no clue why. I just ignorantly assumed it was due to some soft of black magic voodoo with planar versus dynamic drivers. Also, if you could chose only one out of the TC, Susvara, and SR1a which would it be? Which produces the most feels and imagery for you?


----------



## littlej0e

Roasty said:


> @littlej0e
> 
> I find the TC Phi on the Milo Ref a really wonderful combo. I have the wa33 too and the TC Phi sounds amazing out of that tube amp as well, but there is a nice snappiness and immediacy of sound when the TC is paired with the Milo which I seem to enjoy a lot. I am even considering going for the headtrip ii or trying out their new tube amp when it gets released.
> 
> I've not tried the formula/powerman combo so don't know how that compares to the Milo.



Really appreciate the feedback! That's another vote for the WA33! I'll also have a look at the Milo and the Headtrip II. These decisions are so hard with so little experience and so much (highly objective) information available.


----------



## JLoud

I have the WA33 with the TC and is has superb imaging and a 3D sound stage. With good tubes it is also very fast and impactful. If money is not a concern the WA33ee JPS edition would be the bees 🐝 knees with your TC.


----------



## jlbrach

Roasty said:


> @littlej0e
> 
> I find the TC Phi on the Milo Ref a really wonderful combo. I have the wa33 too and the TC Phi sounds amazing out of that tube amp as well, but there is a nice snappiness and immediacy of sound when the TC is paired with the Milo which I seem to enjoy a lot. I am even considering going for the headtrip ii or trying out their new tube amp when it gets released.
> 
> I've not tried the formula/powerman combo so don't know how that compares to the Milo.


 I owned the milo briefly...the formula s/powerman is far better IMHO but you must go with the powerman to get the true performance


----------



## Ciggavelli

littlej0e said:


> Oh, thank god! You are absolutely the guy I need to speak with!!!!!! Good to know I'm not alone! This has been nuts to deal with for SO long...
> 
> Nope, no real reason I want a SS other than it gives me better "impact," "feels," and imagery on the iCAN versus the tube and tube+ modes w/WE 396A tubes. I have literally no other experience to compare it to, just the iCAN. As for amps, if you guys (and you in particular) get better "symptoms" from tubes and an uber-clinical DAC I'm totally down. I will 100% take your advice here as I'm pretty much flying blind. I want the absolute best 3D imagery, spatial positioning, "impactfullness," and clarity I can possibly get. So if you had to pick the ultimate synesthesia setup what would it be? Also, the million dollar question for me is; does the highest of the high-end stuff produce better "symptoms" for people like us compared to "just" high-end? If so, I have my credit card standing by and I will sell my old kit here on Head-fi straight away. Much like you, I tried a couple of other headphones like the HD-820s, but I ended up selling them because the Ether Cs blew them almost completely out of the water from a symptoms and imactfullness perspective. I honestly have no clue why. I just ignorantly assumed it was due to some soft of black magic voodoo with planar versus dynamic drivers. Also, if you could chose only one out of the TC, Susvara, and SR1a which would it be? Which produces the most feels and imagery for you?


If I had to choose only 1, it would be the TCs.  Coming from the Ether Cs, you're in for a big treat.  It's unbelievably better than the Ether Cs.  It's 3D, has the most impactfullness of any headphone like ever.  I don't want to just say look at my sig for what to buy, but I've built my chain specifically around 3D imagery, impactfullness, clarity.  I listen to mostly metal and hip hop, but some indie as well.  Unlimited budget, I'd get the following:

Woo Audio WA33 Elite Edition with JPS wiring and all upgraded tubes (pick what you like best) or Wells Audio Headtrip II level II (a good solid stage amp)
AByss 1266 Ph TCs with the Superconducter cable
Innuos Statement server/streamer
Chord DAVE and M-Scaler with the upgraded power supplies by Sean Jacobs, dCS Rossini with clock, or a full dCS Vivaldi stack (keep in mind that this is like $100K for your dac, but if you have the money....)
The best interconnect you can buy (you can test interconnects out for a small fee at TheCableCo).
WAVE bnc or SotM BNC cables
Best Power conditioner you can buy (Isotek, Audioquest, Synergistic Energy, etc.)
Best Power Cables you can buy.  If you like the "Abyss" sound, get all JPS Aluminata cables.
Once you get used to that setup, pick up the Susvaras for a nice contrast with the TCs.  Some people even use speaker amps.  I think the WA33 is powerful enough though.  It gives good bass and impact.  

If you don't mind not listening to electronica or hip-hop try out the SR1a with the HSA-1b amp (using the WA33 as a pre-amp).  It has the best clarity, speed, soundstage, and treble I've ever heard, but the bass is lacking for hip-hop or EDM, etc.  I wouldn't recommend only getting the SR1as.  The SR1as should be seen as a complimentary pair of headphone for specific albums genres.

I think you would be very happy with the above setup.  A lot of us have TCs, Susvaras, Woo Audio and Wells Audio amps.  Everybody has different cables.  You probably need to just compare a bunch of high-end cables and see what you like best.  It's pretty much just tailored to your tastes.  Some cables are warm, some increase clarity.  You just have to try a lot.


----------



## branislav

I have a question for Abyss owners...Do they stay on just fine when listening to music laying in bed? Some headphones seem to slide right off like Grado's so before I spend too much time looking into these, I need to know they would pass this test...thank you


----------



## InstantSilence

branislav said:


> I have a question for Abyss owners...Do they stay on just fine when listening to music laying in bed? Some headphones seem to slide right off like Grado's so before I spend too much time looking into these, I need to know they would pass this test...thank you


No. No bed allowed. These aren't hang out, chill headphones. 
Because of their fit. 
You'd need something more traditional for bed.


----------



## paradoxper

littlej0e said:


> Really appreciate the feedback! That's another vote for the WA33! I'll also have a look at the Milo and the Headtrip II. These decisions are so hard with so little experience and so much (highly objective) information available.


You should really consult with a dealer considering you have money, ambition, and particular conditions.


----------



## branislav

InstantSilence said:


> No. No bed allowed. These aren't hang out, chill headphones.
> Because of their fit.
> You'd need something more traditional for bed.


No kidding? That sucks.


----------



## InstantSilence (Feb 19, 2021)

branislav said:


> No kidding? That sucks.


It doesn't clamp on your head like traditional fit cans do. It hovers very close, just touches the head... This means the top pad supports most weight.
There is no*looking down, only slightly * no leaning back... Only slightly... They call it design
I call it drawback

Most gripes about this headphone is the fit. Never the sound.
The fit is half the reason I'm exploring other options.

Anyways to add to that, is thst you can further *tune* the cans sound via placement of your ears inside the cup, changing sound quote drastically, some positions offer a more aggressive forward sound (the general tone of these cans) to some offering a more relaxed treble with better bass ect. Idk, you'll have to *adjust* them at the beginning... I couldn't keep my hands off of them for a while, but once you find your sweet spot.... All you gotta do is pick them up and go! 
No more dlcking with them after a while... 


With that said... Best bass ever!


----------



## tkam

DJJEZ said:


> what custom cables is everyone using with their 1266 Tc's? pics please as well if possible



I'm using a Norne Silvergarde S4, far better ergonomics than the stock cable.  It's much more flexible and I like how it looks.


----------



## jlbrach

branislav said:


> I have a question for Abyss owners...Do they stay on just fine when listening to music laying in bed? Some headphones seem to slide right off like Grado's so before I spend too much time looking into these, I need to know they would pass this test...thank you


I listen to my abyss tc sitting on my bed with my back propped up and have no problem listening for long periods of time...the abyss is not a headphone to move around with and if you arent in a stable situation they would be a chore to use...they take some work but they are well worth the effort imho


----------



## DJJEZ

tkam said:


> I'm using a Norne Silvergarde S4, far better ergonomics than the stock cable.  It's much more flexible and I like how it looks.



Thats stunning. Thanks for the pic


----------



## Litlgi74

branislav said:


> No kidding? That sucks.


I only use mine while lying in bed... A firm (I use a Casper) pillow will keep them from sinking and reducing the bass. The pillow also takes all the weight... But forget about falling asleep to your music... You might hurt yourself if you roll over... Lol


----------



## littlej0e (Feb 20, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> If I had to choose only 1, it would be the TCs.  Coming from the Ether Cs, you're in for a big treat.  It's unbelievably better than the Ether Cs.  It's 3D, has the most impactfullness of any headphone like ever.  I don't want to just say look at my sig for what to buy, but I've built my chain specifically around 3D imagery, impactfullness, clarity.  I listen to mostly metal and hip hop, but some indie as well.  Unlimited budget, I'd get the following:
> 
> Woo Audio WA33 Elite Edition with JPS wiring and all upgraded tubes (pick what you like best) or Wells Audio Headtrip II level II (a good solid stage amp)
> AByss 1266 Ph TCs with the Superconducter cable
> ...



Thanks for taking the time to put all of this together! This is the EXACT end result I'm looking for and you are one of the few people that truly understand what I'm after. I'm going to build this setup to a T! I guess I'll start looking for used parts, pieces, and deals wherever I can find them. This is surely going to wreck the hell out of my wallet, but It'll clearly be worth it in the end. Buy once, cry once. I can't tell you how excited I am to experience all of this...

This is likely the upgrade path I'm going to take:

Abyss 1266 Phi TC w/superconductor (already purchased the "deluxe" version w/SC cable. Should be here in about a 4-6 weeks). Thanks for the validation btw. I can't wait to hear these compared to the Ether Cs.
Woo Audio WA33. Not sure if I'll go with the elite version or the custom version on Abyss's website that is built specifically for the 1266 TC. I must be missing something as the elite version is like 10k more. Better internals obviously, but does that actually result in better sound and symptoms? If so, screw it -elite version it is. Again...buy once, cry once...
Chord Dave - I'll likely go used as the availability in the second hard market appears to be "OK."
M-scaler - I can't wait to see what this little thing can do! Quite intriguing!
Upgraded power supplies by Sean Jacobs (or I'll include them with the Dave and M-scaler straight away if I can find a good deal)
Wave BNC cables
Power conditioner
Power cables
Interconnect cables (I will absolutely test the interconnects at TheCableCo).
Server streamer. I may or may not get one of these. Not sure yet.
Lastly, thank you SO MUCH for sharing all of this and letting me capitalize off of your trial and error, successes, mistakes, countless hours of fiddling and experimentation, etc. etc., etc. I really can't thank you enough.


----------



## littlej0e

paradoxper said:


> You should really consult with a dealer considering you have money, ambition, and particular conditions.


I appreciate the input and will likely do so. My main concern is a dealer likely wouldn't fully understand what I'm really looking for and I would likely suck at trying to explain it. They would probably steer me towards something that might work versus what Ciggavelli gave me that I absolutely know will work. I will absolutely consult a dealer for alternatives and options though. Options are always a great thing to have, especially at these price points. Thanks!


----------



## Roasty

@littlej0e 

Part of the fun is trying out different stuff and trial and error, and finding out what suits you. I wish I could put together @Ciggavelli's suggestions but perhaps in the next lifetime haha that would truly be an amazing setup! 

When you get all the stuff put together, let us know how you think about it!


----------



## OceanRanger

Roasty said:


> @littlej0e
> 
> Part of the fun is trying out different stuff and trial and error, and finding out what suits you. I wish I could put together @Ciggavelli's suggestions but perhaps in the next lifetime haha that would truly be an amazing setup!
> 
> When you get all the stuff put together, let us know how you think about it!


I agree with Roasty, listening to different components is a wonderful way to figure out what you most enjoy. I was happy listening to a number of different products at a local retailer. In some cases the sonic differences were significant. In some cases they were more subtle. They appreciated the business and I appreciated the chance to listen to several headphone/amp/dac combinations back to back. I am pretty new to this hobby and this was a great approach early on.


----------



## reiten966

I am working on an XL extra-padded breathable headband. Hopefully, it works


----------



## littlej0e (Feb 20, 2021)

OceanRanger said:


> I agree with Roasty, listening to different components is a wonderful way to figure out what you most enjoy. I was happy listening to a number of different products at a local retailer. In some cases the sonic differences were significant. In some cases they were more subtle. They appreciated the business and I appreciated the chance to listen to several headphone/amp/dac combinations back to back. I am pretty new to this hobby and this was a great approach early on.


Fundamentally, I agree with both of you. The thing is, Ciggavelli knows _exactly_ what I am looking for, why I am looking for it, and the absolute best gear to achieve it. I cannot overstate how valuable his/her first-hand experience and information is, especially for someone looking for the ultimate experience with little-to-no clue how to get there. I get that the journey is part of the fun and I would certainly enjoy myself along the way, but my use case is a bit different. The unbridled joy (see ridiculous audiogasms) I'll get from the end result will _far _outweigh any joy I could possibly get from the journey of getting there. This will be a purpose-built synesthesia system to enjoy experiences that only a handful of people could understand. Jumping straight to end-game in a hobby is almost never ideal, but given my situation I think it is absolutely the right choice. Everybody would obviously enjoy an end-game system, but not like someone with synesthesia can...

That said, I'm still going to take your advice! I'm absolutely going to have fun piecing this "synesthesia kit" together and I will definitely enjoy building it piece by piece, hunting for deals, waiting for used gear to show up on Head-fi, Reddit, and headphones.com, etc. The only difference is I have a clear and precise direction of where I'm going and why I am going there.


----------



## littlej0e

Roasty said:


> @littlej0e
> 
> Part of the fun is trying out different stuff and trial and error, and finding out what suits you. I wish I could put together @Ciggavelli's suggestions but perhaps in the next lifetime haha that would truly be an amazing setup!
> 
> When you get all the stuff put together, let us know how you think about it!



Will do! This is gonna be FUN!


----------



## zenlisten

littlej0e said:


> Abyss 1266 Phi TC w/superconductor (already purchased the "deluxe" version w/SC cable.



Was this the DELUXE or the COMPLETE set now? The Deluxe doesn't include the Superconductor cables


----------



## littlej0e

zenlisten said:


> Was this the DELUXE or the COMPLETE set now? The Deluxe doesn't include the Superconductor cables


Correct. I screwed that up. I ordered the COMPLETE set that included the superconductor cables. Sorry for the confusion!


----------



## Litlgi74

littlej0e said:


> Correct. I screwed that up. I ordered the COMPLETE set that included the superconductor cables. Sorry for the confusion!


That's one item off the checklist.


----------



## makan

reiten966 said:


> I am working on an XL extra-padded breathable headband. Hopefully, it works


If it works out and you are up to making another one, I am up for one!


----------



## Litlgi74

reiten966 said:


> I am working on an XL extra-padded breathable headband. Hopefully, it works


What is the headband made of?


----------



## ken6217 (Feb 20, 2021)

littlej0e said:


> Fundamentally, I agree with both of you. The thing is, Ciggavelli knows _exactly_ what I am looking for, why I am looking for it, and the absolute best gear to achieve it. I cannot overstate how valuable his/her first-hand experience and information is, especially for someone looking for the ultimate experience with little-to-no clue how to get there. I get that the journey is part of the fun and I would certainly enjoy myself along the way, but my use case is a bit different. The unbridled joy (see ridiculous audiogasms) I'll get from the end result will _far _outweigh any joy I could possibly get from the journey of getting there. This will be a purpose-built synesthesia system to enjoy experiences that only a handful of people could understand. Jumping straight to end-game in a hobby is almost never ideal, but given my situation I think it is absolutely the right choice. Everybody would obviously enjoy an end-game system, but not like someone with synesthesia can...
> 
> That said, I'm still going to take your advice! I'm absolutely going to have fun piecing this "synesthesia kit" together and I will definitely enjoy building it piece by piece, hunting for deals, waiting for used gear to show up on Head-fi, Reddit, and headphones.com, etc. The only difference is I have a clear and precise direction of where I'm going and why I am going there.



What’s your definition of the best equipment? The most expensive or what sounds best to YOU? They are not always one in the same?

You can have two $30,000 amps, both excellent amps, but totally different sound signatures. Obviously only one you are going to like.

Make sure you listen before you buy, or the hobby will be even more expensive.

Also note that the law of diminishing returns set in pretty early.


----------



## jlbrach

absolutely true and do not let people either talk you into things or dissuade you from things you like...


----------



## Roasty

jlbrach said:


> absolutely true and do not let people either talk you into things or dissuade you from things you like...



I was just looking at your signature.. Just admiring your gear. Since we're on the topic of that, can you share what you're using for conditioner/power block (if any), pc and interconnects? I can't recall reading about them in your setup.


----------



## jlbrach

I have got an ifi power block... I got power cables form the abyss people...


----------



## ctop

littlej0e said:


> I appreciate the input and will likely do so. My main concern is a dealer likely wouldn't fully understand what I'm really looking for and I would likely suck at trying to explain it. They would probably steer me towards something that might work versus what Ciggavelli gave me that I absolutely know will work. I will absolutely consult a dealer for alternatives and options though. Options are always a great thing to have, especially at these price points. Thanks!


Throwing in another option for an amplifier would be a Riviera AIC-10. I just received mine a couple of days ago and I find them really impressive. Patiently waiting for my 1266TC with SC cable to arrive...


----------



## jlbrach

that is an expensive amp...never heard it


----------



## littlej0e (Feb 20, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> What’s your definition of the best equipment? The most expensive or what sounds best to YOU? They are not always one in the same?
> 
> You can have two $30,000 amps, both excellent amps, but totally different sound signatures. Obviously only one you are going to like.
> 
> ...


Spot on and I agree wholeheartedly. My definition of "best" is a system that will give me the most physical and mental euphoric reactions with my synesthesia. If the system sounds great, that's wonderful...but the sound is idealistically irrelevant. The triggering characteristics and subsequent euphoria are what's important for me.

Unfortunately, building a system for this purpose is pretty unorthodox and would be very difficult to do on my own. It would require a ridiculous amount of time, trial and error, and money. This isn't a situation where I could easily "synesthesia demo" gear at a local dealer or at can jam. It requires a lot of quiet, focus, and complete and total relaxation. At least it does for me.

This is where Ciggavelli's component recommendations and advice become truly _invaluable_. He/she has the same condition I do, with very similar symptoms and triggers, and he/she already did a lot of the trial and error for me. Every component was chosen specifically to maximize the euphoric effects and imagery of synesthesia. Worst case, our triggers might be slightly different and I'll have to add a little EQ or try different cables to boost certain frequencies and enhance certain triggers, but the list of component should be pretty solid.

Hope this makes sense.


----------



## ken6217 (Feb 20, 2021)

littlej0e said:


> Spot on and I agree wholeheartedly. My definition of "best" is a system that will give me the most physical and mental euphoric reactions with my synesthesia. If the system sounds great, that's wonderful...but the sound is idealistically irrelevant. The triggering characteristics and subsequent euphoria are what's important for me.
> 
> Unfortunately, building a system for this purpose is pretty unorthodox and would be very difficult to do on my own. It would require a ridiculous amount of time, trial and error, and money. This isn't a situation where I could easily "synesthesia demo" gear at a local dealer or at can jam. It requires a lot of quiet, focus, and complete and total relaxation. At least it does for me.
> 
> ...



Yikes!


----------



## InstantSilence

littlej0e said:


> Spot on and I agree wholeheartedly. My definition of "best" is a system that will give me the most physical and mental euphoric reactions with my synesthesia. If the system sounds great, that's wonderful...but the sound is idealistically irrelevant. The triggering characteristics and subsequent euphoria are what's important for me.
> 
> Unfortunately, building a system for this purpose is pretty unorthodox and would be very difficult to do on my own. It would require a ridiculous amount of time, trial and error, and money. This isn't a situation where I could easily "synesthesia demo" gear at a local dealer or at can jam. It requires a lot of quiet, focus, and complete and total relaxation. At least it does for me.
> 
> ...


I can't compare, but I have hyperacusis in the 1k to 8k region on certain spikes within that range. 
I've tried changing cables and headphones and while it all helps.. Nothing is as strong as DSP. 

DSP done right, given the time of day using professional software can be extremely difficult to use and has an intensive learning curve but it's very rewarding. 
 Dsp along with top gear like the TC has allowed me to enjoy hifi in outstanding resolution. With the Dsp being applied delicately and targeting the specific frequencies and sounds. 

This allows for music to still be as true to source as possible exept don't specific frequencies and sound triggers. It does not break fidelity. Transparency is this there (you can achieve these effects with analogue hardware as well) details, the exact sounds thst trigger you can still be there for you to enjoy. 

This goes far far beyond EQ and has the requirement of spending a lot of time to learn how to manipulate it so that It suits you, as these softwares are made for music producers/recording engineers... 

But it has allowed me to enjoy my music at any volume, to retain resolution and clarity which are most important to me. Without dulling music and compressing it and distorting it like basic EQ does. 

You can alter gear... But beyond gear, you can alter sound, with software, for the ultimate in fine tuning. 

All the best


----------



## littlej0e

InstantSilence said:


> I can't compare, but I have hyperacusis in the 1k to 8k region on certain spikes within that range.
> I've tried changing cables and headphones and while it all helps.. Nothing is as strong as DSP.
> 
> DSP done right, given the time of day using professional software can be extremely difficult to use and has an intensive learning curve but it's very rewarding.
> ...


Holy crap! Thanks for the info!

Welp, if I'm not divorced after building this system I sure as hell will be after spending countless hours manipulating audio files and dialing in the ultimate symptoms and effects!


----------



## InstantSilence

littlej0e said:


> Holy crap! Thanks for the info!
> 
> Welp, if I'm not divorced after building this system I sure as hell will be after spending countless hours manipulating audio files and dialing in the ultimate symptoms, and effects!


Its hard, it takes time, but it's absolutely amazing. Ive gotten it to where at this point between track (unedited) and track (edited) people without hyperacusis cannot tell much difference at all, they just say it sounds slightly softer, less fatiguing. Where to me I can actually enjoy the track vs not being able to listen to it via pain.  EQ, be it para, graphic, dynamic... You name it... Could never ever do that. 

What's beautiful about it is that you can use this in passive mode... So you can listen to your library and streaming services without editing track by track. 

You could enhance it to the highest level this way. 
But. You do need quality cans/amp/dac/cables to get the best out of it. Which looks like you are doing. 

Enjoy the long road. It's a nice experience overall. 

When you are ready, if ever, reach out and I'll get you started with what you need as far as beginner software to get a taste of what it could be if you invested adequate time and effort.


----------



## TDinCali

Cable question time.  I posted a picture of my setup and someone chimed in saying I need to upgrade cables. So I've been doing some reading snd considering getting the JPS Labs Super Conductor HP cables for my 1266 TC connected to X1 Audio Formula S. The question I have is, do I go dual 3 pin XLR or 4 pin XLR?


----------



## simorag

ctop said:


> Throwing in another option for an amplifier would be a Riviera AIC-10. I just received mine a couple of days ago and I find them really impressive. Patiently waiting for my 1266TC with SC cable to arrive...



+1 on the Riviera AIC-10. I ended up getting it after a multiple-months-long series of auditions of many high end amplifiers (mostly 2ch amplifiers to be honest, see here and here for example), and to date - after several other comparisons to amplifiers costing up to 30kEuro - I personally have not heard anything better than the AIC-10 with the 'right' tube in combination with the AB-1266. Never had the chance of listening to the WA33 EE/JPS Labs Edition, or Headtrip Reference II, though, or a Trafomatic Primavera, all of which are reported to be superlative options.

Yes, the AIC-10 is crazy expensive and the price vs. performance upgrade with respect to the Formula S / Powerman combo I had before is deep into diminishing returns territory, but I do not remotely regret having made the investment.



TDinCali said:


> Cable question time.  I posted a picture of my setup and someone chimed in saying I need to upgrade cables. So I've been doing some reading snd considering getting the JPS Labs Super Conductor HP cables for my 1266 TC connected to X1 Audio Formula S. The question I have is, do I go dual 3 pin XLR or 4 pin XLR?



The Formula S is a single ended design, so I am not sure the dual xlr out provides any sonic advantage over the other options (6.35mm or 4pin xlr). Furthermore, not all amplifiers have 2x 3 pin XLR input, while most have 4 pin XLR, so I decided to go for the latter (although I had the Formula S at the time) when I purchased the Super Conductor, and I am happy I did.


----------



## saktanbers

Hi guys, i am considering of a listening tour of Silverfi HR4Signature upgrade cable for Abyss 1266, mainly in usa. Would like to get your ideas on this issue. You can mail me on this subject. Thanks


----------



## smodtactical

Has anyone heard a headphone they think actually competes with Abyss TC in terms of speed, resolution, soundstage, imaging, microdetail and superb bass? Does anything even get close in the world?


----------



## vonBaron

I don't.


----------



## Bonddam

smodtactical said:


> Has anyone heard a headphone they think actually competes with Abyss TC in terms of speed, resolution, soundstage, imaging, microdetail and superb bass? Does anything even get close in the world?


No nothing competes in the same acoustic signature, but became a huge fan of the Solitaire P. The T+A has better separation and image cues. The tonality took time to get use to as the presentation is super deep and close. You asked about bass well the Solitaire would be close to 1266. Treble is smooth and is the part your brain has to adjust to as it presents further away and may seem rolled off but it isn't. 1266 is just full throttle all the time when compared.


----------



## Bonddam

My OCD makes me want two 1266 and Solitaire P.

Pretty upset with the wrinkles in the driver pics I came across. Now my OCD will forever haunt me with how my driver's look. Even if they are nothing is 1266, I tired the Susvara but that was just a yawn fest. Could give crap how much detail they have. My HE-6 is more fun. I guess the Dr doesn't like bass.


----------



## vonBaron

T+A have more fun and energy that Susvara?


----------



## Bonddam

Yes I don't have the yawn effect


----------



## Bonddam

You guys who listen to a composer type music will go for Susvara. I haven't hit that age to like Susvara. I was a clubber in my youth and type of music hasn't left me yet. Industrial, edm, everything else gets a listen for a bit.


----------



## Bonddam

Here's reason why Susvara doesn't do it for me.
Bassrush​SCIENCE SAYS: BASS MUSIC MAKES LISTENERS FEEL MORE POWERFUL​February 17, 2015 - Katie Bain









Science Says: Bass Music Makes Listeners Feel More Powerful
Science has just confirmed what anyone who has ever raged at a Skrillex show has always known in their hearts: Bass music makes you feel powerful.
A study published yesterday in the journal Social Psychological and Personality Science has determined that bass-heavy music inspired the greatest sense of power in test subjects who were exposed to various sounds.
The first phase of the study took 31 genre-spanning songs and identified how powerful each track made subjects feel, based on a seven-point scale. Songs were ranked from most to least powerful.
The study then looked to see if music highly correlated to power-related thinking and behavior. And guess what? It did! Researchers found that music predetermined to be powerful generated three common consequences of power: abstract thinking (i.e., an ability to see the big picture), along with a sense of perceived control in various scenarios, and the ability to make the first move in competitive situations. These are all characteristics of alpha types, who are recognized as ranking the highest in social hierarchies.
The bass dropped in the next part of the experiment, as researchers played subjects a track with either a light or heavy bass element. “We chose to vary bass specifically,” the study states, “because prior research suggests a link between bass and power. In particular, powerful people are more likely to speak with a deep, bass voice, and a bass voice is often associated with higher perceived power.”
After listening, participants rated how powerful, dominant and determined they felt, using a seven-point scale, with participants who listened to the bassier music reporting greater feelings of power. Thus, researchers concluded, “music with more bass increased participants’ sense of power.” These findings also support the “emerging notion that music can induce various psychological experiences other than emotions.”
Basically, all of this is why you feel more able to conquer the world when listening to Knife Party than you do while listening to, say, Disclosure.
For added food for thought, the study also found that humans begin processing music while still in the womb, and that most people listen to music recreationally before they begin watching television or reading.
In other news related to your brain on bass, a study last month determined that the brain has a natural affinity for and understanding of bass music, as it picks up on the rhythms of lower, bassier music faster than it does high-pitched noises.
This article originally appeared on Insomniac.com.


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----------



## Bonddam

When I competed in contact Karate I always had bass music.


----------



## jlbrach

smodtactical said:


> Has anyone heard a headphone they think actually competes with Abyss TC in terms of speed, resolution, soundstage, imaging, microdetail and superb bass? Does anything even get close in the world?


I love my abyss TC but on everything other than bass the sr1a is as good or better...that said the sub bass of the abyss makes for a completely different listening experience


----------



## Mossback (Feb 21, 2021)

we actually react more strongly to additional bass than other frequencies. we are attracted to it.

Imo this is arguably predicted by the Fletcher-Munsen curves. Notice how the curves get closer together south of 100 Hz. So a 5 dB change at 30-40 Hz can be PERCEPTUALLY comparable to a 10 dB change at 1 kHz, at least at normal listening levels. The implication is that a LITTLE BIT of improvement in the bass region goes a LONG WAYS, perceptually... whether that improvement is one which adds weight or one which increases smoothness (which correlates with the subjective impression of "speed" in the bass region) or both.

so gear with a little more bass typically gets our preference.


----------



## E-norm

simorag said:


> From a purely sonic standpoint, the main advantage I found on the Susvara over the TC is their midrange presentation. Vocals, strings and piano, for example, are significantly better - both more pleasingly and more accurately - reproduced on the Susvara especially if focusing on timbre / tonality


Descriptions like these are what makes me seriously question my choice of 1266s. Curses for not being able to try before buying anything where I live! 

I wanna hear what you guys hear! 😛 Besides the Superconductor cable which makes every rational molecule in my being scream in pain, what are my other options? Tubes I guess?


----------



## Bonddam

E-norm said:


> Descriptions like these are what makes me seriously question my choice of 1266s. Curses for not being able to try before buying anything where I live!
> 
> I wanna hear what you guys hear! 😛 Besides the Superconductor cable which makes every rational molecule in my being scream in pain, what are my other options? Tubes I guess?


Susvara is it's king in those areas. Every group is a tribe of their own beliefs. If everyone chose the same thing we wouldn't be human. Being it's impossible to audition headphones from every brand you just have to jump. For me 1266 TC with WA33 Elite and Manhattan 2 is my favorite. I can't give up the HeadTrip 2 and Cipher as it sounds amazing to me.


----------



## OceanRanger

E-norm said:


> Descriptions like these are what makes me seriously question my choice of 1266s. Curses for not being able to try before buying anything where I live!
> 
> I wanna hear what you guys hear! 😛 Besides the Superconductor cable which makes every rational molecule in my being scream in pain, what are my other options? Tubes I guess?





Bonddam said:


> Susvara is it's king in those areas. Every group is a tribe of their own beliefs. If everyone chose the same thing we wouldn't be human. Being it's impossible to audition headphones from every brand you just have to jump. For me 1266 TC with WA33 Elite and Manhattan 2 is my favorite. I can't give up the HeadTrip 2 and Cipher as it sounds amazing to me.


Bondam, thanks for the follow-up RE the Susvara. I enjoy the 1266 TCs, but am more of a mid-range person and have been contemplating the Susvaras lately. Reading your post using "yawn" to describe them had me second guessing. I also have a Headtrip II and am loving it. I am feeding it with a Hugo2 so I still need to figure out the right DAC solution for me. So much to listen to and so many decisions to make. Anyway, thanks again for your thoughts.


----------



## Bonddam

OceanRanger said:


> Bondam, thanks for the follow-up RE the Susvara. I enjoy the 1266 TCs, but am more of a mid-range person and have been contemplating the Susvaras lately. Reading your post using "yawn" to describe them had me second guessing. I also have a Headtrip II and am loving it. I am feeding it with a Hugo2 so I still need to figure out the right DAC solution for me. So much to listen to and so many decisions to make. Anyway, thanks again for your thoughts.


No I don't mean they sound bad. Bass has always been a strong part of my life. I move to the best. If you saw me in a club I was one of the battlers on the dance floor. Dancing has always been how I move. Martial Arts was no different. I find the Susvara for those listening to acoustic music. If you are going to get Susvara get it from headphone s.com with their 365 day return policy. Find a T+A dealer with Solitaire P. If I put Solitaire P in position it would be middle of the 1266 and Susvara.


----------



## OceanRanger

Bonddam said:


> No I don't mean they sound bad. Bass has always been a strong part of my life. I move to the best. If you saw me in a club I was one of the battlers on the dance floor. Dancing has always been how I move. Martial Arts was no different. I find the Susvara for those listening to acoustic music. If you are going to get Susvara get it from headphone s.com with their 365 day return policy. Find a T+A dealer with Solitaire P. If I put Solitaire P in position it would be middle of the 1266 and Susvara.


Understood. Good advice on the return policy. 

Just off of the phone with Jeff regarding a couple of upgrades. I'm trying decide how to sequence an upgrade from a Hugo2 to a Cipher or a new pair of cans. I'm currently using the Headtrip II / Hugo2 as a desktop solution, so space turns into an issues since the Cipher is more than a little larger than the Hugo2.


----------



## smodtactical

E-norm said:


> Descriptions like these are what makes me seriously question my choice of 1266s. Curses for not being able to try before buying anything where I live!
> 
> I wanna hear what you guys hear! 😛 Besides the Superconductor cable which makes every rational molecule in my being scream in pain, what are my other options? Tubes I guess?



Did you try Susvara?


----------



## smodtactical

jlbrach said:


> I love my abyss TC but on everything other than bass the sr1a is as good or better...that said the sub bass of the abyss makes for a completely different listening experience



Impressive... gonna try sr1a next week.


----------



## JLoud

I had the SR1A but ultimately sold them. For acoustic music or  vocals they were unbeatable. However that makes up a very small portion of what I listen too. Really comes down to what type of music you listen too the most. Or if you are willing to have many different cans for different types of music. They are the best at what they do.


----------



## stew1234

I have seen a few mentions of plans to try driving the 1266s with a Benchmark AHB2, but has anyone tried this combo?


----------



## paradoxper

smodtactical said:


> Has anyone heard a headphone they think actually competes with Abyss TC in terms of speed, resolution, soundstage, imaging, microdetail and superb bass? Does anything even get close in the world?


Superb bass? Or Absurd bass?

Plenty. SR-Omega, 009, Susvara, D8000, HE1, Solitaire, SR1a. Fundamentally all great quality bass response.

You are looking for your wonder-phone that does it all. Good luck. Very few do real tactical bass.

I'd recommend the Susvara out of your Pass. An 009 out of the T2. SR1a as a requisite reference tool but not everyday listening device likely amped from the interface and Pass as it will best the HSA-1b and alternative direct-drive amplifiers are not available.

The D8000 and Solitaire are pretty solid but ultimately bottlenecked phones that aren't quite on these superlative levels.

However, trying to forcefully squeeze your goldilocks out of 1 singular phone is bound to end in disappointment. 
This, too, will be your regret and lesson heard.


----------



## OceanRanger

OceanRanger said:


> Understood. Good advice on the return policy.
> 
> Just off of the phone with Jeff regarding a couple of upgrades. I'm trying decide how to sequence an upgrade from a Hugo2 to a Cipher or a new pair of cans. I'm currently using the Headtrip II / Hugo2 as a desktop solution, so space turns into an issues since the Cipher is more than a little larger than the Hugo2.





Bonddam said:


> No I don't mean they sound bad. Bass has always been a strong part of my life. I move to the best. If you saw me in a club I was one of the battlers on the dance floor. Dancing has always been how I move. Martial Arts was no different. I find the Susvara for those listening to acoustic music. If you are going to get Susvara get it from headphone s.com with their 365 day return policy. Find a T+A dealer with Solitaire P. If I put Solitaire P in position it would be middle of the 1266 and Susvara.


Are you using the Superconductor with your 1266s?


----------



## Bonddam

I like big cables and fancy parts so I do have a 10 ft SC.


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> I like big cables and fancy parts so I do have a 10 ft SC.



We still talkin about audio?


----------



## Bonddam

😆


----------



## InstantSilence

When burning in cables, headphones, ect, does it have to be played at normal listening levels? Also just regular music or pink noise?


----------



## ra990

InstantSilence said:


> When burning in cables, headphones, ect, does it have to be played at normal listening levels? Also just regular music or pink noise?


There's a very specific form of polka music that was found to be the best for burning cables in  

Pink noise or Pink Floyd, both should work well.


----------



## smodtactical

paradoxper said:


> Superb bass? Or Absurd bass?
> 
> Plenty. SR-Omega, 009, Susvara, D8000, HE1, Solitaire, SR1a. Fundamentally all great quality bass response.
> 
> ...



Ya I got susvara right now from Shahrose (borrowing). It is truly superb but TC imo is another level in terms of soundstage, speed, transparency. Once you get used to it, its hard to go to anything else. I think TC might be the singular headphone for me but I gotta convince those guys to make a vegan version before I could bite.

Will hear sr1a next week.


----------



## E-norm

smodtactical said:


> Did you try Susvara?



Never had the pleasure. Bought the 1266 TC from reviews and excessive forum reading alone. Trying by buying is a very expensive approach to this hobby though..
I am in no way trying to slam the Abyss but there is a lack of emotion for lack of a better word compared to my other headphones. Perhaps there really can be too much of a good thing sometimes and that this amount of detail and clarity and whatnot almost makes my music sound...boring? 

Again, not trying to be a nuisance, but after almost 1000 pages of superlatives in this thread it's so devastating when I can't really feel them like everyone else does.


----------



## Bonddam

I don’t like that 1266 pads are not symmetrical. If you look at them the pads are not same shape . One example ear opening on one pad is almost oval the other is round. I would think shape could change sound. I’ll post a pic later


----------



## JLoud

They should definitely be the same. One shouldn’t be shaped differently from the other.


----------



## Bonddam (Feb 22, 2021)

This isn’t the first time. I’ve owned 4 sets of 1266 TC I know me crazy. I got use to uneven pads so let it go. Now I’d like them to be equal as my ocd makes me believe it causes problems.


----------



## kuzemchik

Hi all,
Wanted to get an opinions on amp for 1266 TC.
I got my 1266 TC couple of months ago and currently running it on Schiit Magnius balanced. Since I knew I will be upgrading I didn't want to spend too much money on temporary solution.
I had it running using my UA Apollo Twin X as DAC, but that it was making listening somewhat fatiguing, so I was doing DSP correction in Apollo to bring high frequencies down.
I tried to run it SE, but that just made the soundstage smaller.
I recently got iFi Diablo since I wanted to be able to listen to TC outside of home setup too and it sounds less fatiguing when I'm using it as DAC, but feel like I'm missing something comparing to Apollo (if that makes sense at all). 
I've been messaging with Abyss, and they are recommending XI Audio Formula S, but it is kinda expected, since the co-developed it. I'm kinda confused on specs though. By specs Formula S is pushing 6W per channel to 16ohms, which is the same amount of power as Magnius and less than HeadAmp GS-X mini. But the last one by different reviews seems to be "not powerful enough for TC". Is Formula S scaling non-linearly with impedance increase?
I didn't find any reviews on Magnius vs GS-X mini/Formula S. But saw comparisons that A90 better than Magnius, and Formula S better than A90. Which suggests that Formula S should be better.
I do have feeling that WA33 JPS is potential endgame amp, but it is in completely different price range, and probably means that I will need to replace DAC too, so this is far in future. Probably.
Unfortunately "go and listen" doesn't work, so I have to rely recommendations and reviews and try to guess right choice.
Any suggestions will be appreciated.
Thanks


----------



## smodtactical

E-norm said:


> Never had the pleasure. Bought the 1266 TC from reviews and excessive forum reading alone. Trying by buying is a very expensive approach to this hobby though..
> I am in no way trying to slam the Abyss but there is a lack of emotion for lack of a better word compared to my other headphones. Perhaps there really can be too much of a good thing sometimes and that this amount of detail and clarity and whatnot almost makes my music sound...boring?
> 
> Again, not trying to be a nuisance, but after almost 1000 pages of superlatives in this thread it's so devastating when I can't really feel them like everyone else does.



What is your chain? Maybe warming up of the chain or tubes / tube rolling could help?

If your looking for more emotion but still great resolution, Susvara might be the answer. I do find it has a richer fuller midrange and more liquid relaxed overall sound while still being very detailed and having great imaging.


----------



## Bonddam

kuzemchik said:


> Hi all,
> Wanted to get an opinions on amp for 1266 TC.
> I got my 1266 TC couple of months ago and currently running it on Schiit Magnius balanced. Since I knew I will be upgrading I didn't want to spend too much money on temporary solution.
> I had it running using my UA Apollo Twin X as DAC, but that it was making listening somewhat fatiguing, so I was doing DSP correction in Apollo to bring high frequencies down.
> ...


You might need to look at WA33 for it’s richer sound. Had the Formula S but wasn’t blown away by it. You want Formula S you will want the Powerman to go with it. My two powerhouse amps add shape to the sound. Is there only one dealer for the Formula? I started with WA33 standard then moved to the Elite both units play treble with smoothness. The HeadTrip is another option that has made people ask what kind of tubes in it. Also your DAC might be the culprit. You might need spend money there. I had TT2 and it has more bass quantity then my Manhattan 2. So there’s a boost in that range. My Cipher DAC is neutral and smooth with no loss in treble frequencies sounding correct. Maybe a Lampizator DAC which has tubes in it will solve the treble. I wasn’t a believer in DACs until I got a bunch of different ones and it was night and day.


----------



## Bonddam (Feb 22, 2021)

InstantSilence said:


> When burning in cables, headphones, ect, does it have to be played at normal listening levels? Also just regular music or pink noise?


I’m guessing current is the physical force on the cable and increase in voltage would change the amount of pressure on that current. So yes louder would make sense. I don’t find the 1266 really needs to be pushed ahead of schedule on burn in.


----------



## paradoxper

smodtactical said:


> Ya I got susvara right now from Shahrose (borrowing). It is truly superb but TC imo is another level in terms of soundstage, speed, transparency. Once you get used to it, its hard to go to anything else. I think TC might be the singular headphone for me but I gotta convince those guys to make a vegan version before I could bite.
> 
> Will hear sr1a next week.


I hear things much the same. In fact, I don't really enjoy the Susvara as it reminds me of a simpler 009. 

I also bet you could, if motivated enough, source out a pad maker to compliment a vegan version of the Abyss pads. DIY has no boundaries.


----------



## Bonddam

Making the pad a different material can change the sound. I’m surprised they don’t offer headphone cables under the JPS name. I’d like some Magic wire for my other headphones.


----------



## jlbrach

kuzemchik said:


> Hi all,
> Wanted to get an opinions on amp for 1266 TC.
> I got my 1266 TC couple of months ago and currently running it on Schiit Magnius balanced. Since I knew I will be upgrading I didn't want to spend too much money on temporary solution.
> I had it running using my UA Apollo Twin X as DAC, but that it was making listening somewhat fatiguing, so I was doing DSP correction in Apollo to bring high frequencies down.
> ...


the formula s/powerman combo is an extraordinary choice for all HP's but especially for the abyss...but it needs the powerman to make it truly sing...forget about power ratings this amp drives the abyss beautifully and the susvara as well which means it can drive anything....the powerman makes a huge difference


----------



## OceanRanger

Bonddam said:


> This isn’t the first time. I’ve owned 4 sets of 1266 TC I know me crazy. I got use to uneven pads so let it go. Now I’d like them to be equal as my ocd makes me believe it causes problems.


Mine are both the same (not round), that said, I do empathize that you have OCD on these kinds of issues.


----------



## Slim1970

jlbrach said:


> the formula s/powerman combo is an extraordinary choice for all HP's but especially for the abyss...but it needs the powerman to make it truly sing...forget about power ratings this amp drives the abyss beautifully and the susvara as well which means it can drive anything....the powerman makes a huge difference


I agree, the Formula S does an amazing job at amplification. Sure it was made for the Abyss but it has such a refined, dynamic, and clean sound that all of my headphones are benefiting from being powered by it. This is without the Powerman, which I’ll be adding very soon. Upon which, I only expect the sound to get better.


----------



## typalder

kuzemchik said:


> Hi all,
> Wanted to get an opinions on amp for 1266 TC.
> I got my 1266 TC couple of months ago and currently running it on Schiit Magnius balanced. Since I knew I will be upgrading I didn't want to spend too much money on temporary solution.
> I had it running using my UA Apollo Twin X as DAC, but that it was making listening somewhat fatiguing, so I was doing DSP correction in Apollo to bring high frequencies down.
> ...


get a good speaker amp (using the speaker terminals) and you`re done. a 2000 bucks speaker amp was always better than a 5000 bucks headphone amp with my 1266.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

typalder said:


> get a good speaker amp (using the speaker terminals) and you`re done. a 2000 bucks speaker amp was always better than a 5000 bucks headphone amp with my 1266.


what 5000 bucks headphone amp did you try ?


----------



## jlbrach

the abyss doesnt need a speaker amp....hard to imagine much better than the formula s/powerman or bakoon 13r...or the nimbus for that matter or several of the wells amps etc


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> the abyss doesnt need a speaker amp....hard to imagine much better than the formula s/powerman or bakoon 13r...or the nimbus for that matter or several of the wells amps etc



lalala naysayer!

Except it does. And it does get much better still.


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> the abyss doesnt need a speaker amp....hard to imagine much better than the formula s/powerman or bakoon 13r...or the nimbus for that matter or several of the wells amps etc



Nobody needs anything, but that doesn't mean it can’t be better.

I used both a Nimbus and V281 prior to getting a Simaudio and the and Audio Research amp. They are both far away better than both, and then Nimbus arguably is one of the better solid state amps there is.


----------



## ken6217

typalder said:


> get a good speaker amp (using the speaker terminals) and you`re done. a 2000 bucks speaker amp was always better than a 5000 bucks headphone amp with my 1266.



I use a speaker amp, and I found it better by a wide margin to the headphone amp‘s that I tried. However with that said, you can’t make a blanket statement about speaker amps being the best. Just because a component is in the speaker amp category doesn’t mean they are all the same, and just throwing more power at the headphone isnt what it’s all about. There are other factors aside from power that make an amp sound very good.


----------



## JLoud

Many here, including myself, have found the WA33 to be about as good as it gets. Of course personal taste makes the final decision.


----------



## OceanRanger

New stand for my 1266s arrived today. I had been using an under desk mount and it was terrible. This stand is substantial and has a bracket that looks to be made specifically for the 1266s. It brings me a bit of joy each time I set the headphones on the stand.


----------



## Roasty

OceanRanger said:


> New stand for my 1266s arrived today. I had been using an under desk mount and it was terrible. This stand is substantial and has a bracket that looks to be made specifically for the 1266s. It brings me a bit of joy each time I set the headphones on the stand.



well worth the money!


----------



## OceanRanger

Indeed, my previous solution was driving me nuts! Also received SC cable so I have a fun evening in store.


----------



## kamlam

typalder said:


> get a good speaker amp (using the speaker terminals) and you`re done. a 2000 bucks speaker amp was always better than a 5000 bucks headphone amp with my 1266.


Which speaker amps do you recommend around 2000?


----------



## TDinCali

OceanRanger said:


> New stand for my 1266s arrived today. I had been using an under desk mount and it was terrible. This stand is substantial and has a bracket that looks to be made specifically for the 1266s. It brings me a bit of joy each time I set the headphones on the stand.


6 months ago I would be laughing and making fun about how much you spent on a headphone stand, nowadays I think, "Hmm, a cool stand at a fraction of the cost of a cable"....  WTH is wrong with me.


----------



## OceanRanger

TDinCali said:


> 6 months ago I would be laughing and making fun about how much you spent on a headphone stand, nowadays I think, "Hmm, a cool stand at a fraction of the cost of a cable"....  WTH is wrong with me.


I am somewhat embarrassed by how much I spent on the stand. But each time I used my silly under-the-desk holder the headphones slipped and I was annoyed. Now each time I place the cans on this new stand i feel a little bit of happiness. Those little moments of happiness are adding up quickly.


----------



## cjarrett (Feb 24, 2021)

OceanRanger said:


> I am somewhat embarrassed by how much I spent on the stand. But each time I used my silly under-the-desk holder the headphones slipped and I was annoyed. Now each time I place the cans on this new stand i feel a little bit of happiness. Those little moments of happiness are adding up quickly.


I’m with you.  It's a beautiful stand, also built to last forever.   Also--that new iPhone charger magnetically sits to the base.  Eventually COVID will pass and I can rearrange my setup to ignore WFH webcams--I don't like how that sc twists.....


----------



## cjarrett

I also want to not look at this thread for the next year.  Bout to finally cave and spend real money on tube amps....


----------



## Bonddam

My OCD doesn't let me put the 1266 on a stand. They have to stored in the box. I'm afraid for the safety of my babies.


----------



## DJJEZ (Feb 24, 2021)

Bonddam said:


> My OCD doesn't let me put the 1266 on a stand. They have to stored in the box. I'm afraid for the safety of my babies.



you should put the amps and dacs in their boxes after each listening session as well


----------



## Ciggavelli

Bonddam said:


> My OCD doesn't let me put the 1266 on a stand. They have to stored in the box. I'm afraid for the safety of my babies.


I wouldn't want to take the cable off every time though.  I'd be afraid to mess with the connection every day.  Though, if you can keep the cable on, I guess it would be fine


----------



## Bonddam

I only need a cage to protect the tubes on wa33 from flying objects from my son.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Feb 24, 2021)

Bonddam said:


> I only need a cage to protect the tubes on wa33 from flying objects from my son.


Nerf darts and rival balls.. the main reason I didn't get a WA33.
.


----------



## spacelion2077

Out of curiosity. Has anyone listened to Ab-1266 tc on Wa33 JPS version? It's highly recommended by Abyss but the price tag they put on it is really something.


----------



## JLoud

I know they highly recommend it, however I prefer all silver cables over stock Abyss cable. Haven't heard SC. So I'm not sure I would want Abyss wiring in my WA33.


----------



## Bonddam

spacelion2077 said:


> Out of curiosity. Has anyone listened to Ab-1266 tc on Wa33 JPS version? It's highly recommended by Abyss but the price tag they put on it is really something.


Of course they push it


----------



## DJJEZ

spacelion2077 said:


> Out of curiosity. Has anyone listened to Ab-1266 tc on Wa33 JPS version? It's highly recommended by Abyss but the price tag they put on it is really something.


 If you've got the money why not


----------



## typalder

kamlam said:


> Which speaker amps do you recommend around 2000?


bought a used accuphase for 2k. a yamaha as2100 was also pretty nice.


----------



## Ciggavelli

spacelion2077 said:


> Out of curiosity. Has anyone listened to Ab-1266 tc on Wa33 JPS version? It's highly recommended by Abyss but the price tag they put on it is really something.


I have the WA33 EE JPS version.  I had the standard WA33 before.  The WA33 EE JPS is a big step up.  The sound is just so amazing.  I don't really know how to describe it, but the WA33 standard sounds very, very good, the EE JPS is just better.  More bass, better soundstage, better separation, more 3D.  I'm very impressed by the TCs out of the WA33 EE JPS edition


----------



## ken6217

Thanks 


Ciggavelli said:


> I have the WA33 EE JPS version.  I had the standard WA33 before.  The WA33 EE JPS is a big step up.  The sound is just so amazing.  I don't really know how to describe it, but the WA33 standard sounds very, very good, the EE JPS is just better.  More bass, better soundstage, better separation, more 3D.  I'm very impressed by the TCs out of the WA33 EE JPS edition



If you want to make another improvement to your system, dump the Innous Zenoth and Phoenix, Regen, etc, and get an Aurender N20 and connect AES/EBU. OCXO controlled SPDIF output. Also has Word Clock connection.  

I took a flyer on it last week and it is so much more tonally richer and musical sounding.


----------



## Bonddam

Might as well get Elite jps.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> Thanks
> 
> 
> If you want to make another improvement to your system, dump the Innous Zenoth and Phoenix, Regen, etc, and get an Aurender N20 and connect AES/EBU. OCXO controlled SPDIF output. Also has Word Clock connection.
> ...


Thanks for the suggestion.  Aurender has been on my radar, along with the Innuos Statement.  I'll do some research and check it out


----------



## ken6217 (Feb 24, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.  Aurender has been on my radar, along with the Innuos Statement.  I'll do some research and check it out



I was going to get the Statement but I had heard the Zenith Mk3 plus the Phoenix was about 90% of the Statement. I already had the combo in the past and and didn’t love it. I also liked the idea of not using USB.


----------



## OceanRanger

ken6217 said:


> I was going to get the Statement but I had heard the Zenith Mk4 plus the Phoenix was about 90% of the Statement. I already had the combo in the past and and didn’t love it. I also liked the idea of not using USB.


I've auditioned the Statement several times. It is amazing!! I've also heard the same thing RE the Zenith + Phoenix combination and it is cheaper. I've also been contemplating a solution from Antipodes, but have yet to audition. A new DAC is on my list prior to a streamer / renderer.


----------



## ken6217

OceanRanger said:


> I've auditioned the Statement several times. It is amazing!! I've also heard the same thing RE the Zenith + Phoenix combination and it is cheaper. I've also been contemplating a solution from Antipodes, but have yet to audition. A new DAC is on my list prior to a streamer / renderer.



I don't understand Antipodes. They change their models so quickly. It doesn't take long before their latest and greatest (and expensive) models, are replaced by their new latest and greatest. I used to have the DX3 and it sounded nice.


----------



## OceanRanger

ken6217 said:


> I don't understand Antipodes. They change their models so quickly. It doesn't take long before their latest and greatest (and expensive) models, are replaced by their new latest and greatest. I used to have the DX3 and it sounded nice.


I like them because they seem to do a decent job of balancing noise reduction and decent CPU power. I do agree that they refresh their line frequently. I'm looking at a used CX / EX. With their K series out now the previous line seems to have dropped in price.


----------



## littlej0e

Anyone know if there are any other higher-end cable manufacturers in the USA besides Danacables that offer 30 day money-back guarantees and returns? That is an enormous value proposition for me and really makes me want to do business with them...

The only other alternative seems to be to buy cables from Amazon, but I'm worried about the fine print in the Terms and Conditions. Seems like cables would have to be returned unopened for guaranteed acceptance of a return, which pretty much negates the benefit of using Amazon in the first place.


----------



## ken6217

I believe Norne does


----------



## kamlam

Hey y’all I’ve been waiting to ask until after burn in... what could be your guess for why there’s on-off “buzzing” primarily in the left driver of my TC?


----------



## littlej0e (Feb 25, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> I believe Norne does


Awesome, thanks! I also just discovered Taralabs has their own loaner program as well. They charge a flat 35% refundable deposit which is very different than the thecableco.com that basically locks you into buying cables from them or paying a potentially exorbitant "non-refundable deposit" to use the loaner service.


----------



## ken6217

littlej0e said:


> Awesome, thanks! I also just discovered Taralabs offers there own loaner program as well. They charge a flat 35% refundable deposit which is very different than the thecableco.com that basically locks you into buying cables from them or paying a potentially exorbitant "non-refundable deposit" to use the loaner service.



Call Thr Cable Company. They loan all types of cables and brands. I believe they charge you 5% of the retail cost for doing so, but if you buy they deduct that off. I’ve used them many many many times over the years. It’s gives you a great chance to test the cable to see if you like it before buying them


----------



## ra990

kamlam said:


> Hey y’all I’ve been waiting to ask until after burn in... what could be your guess for why there’s on-off “buzzing” primarily in the left driver of my TC?


Oh no, I had that in a few of my pairs. Swap the cable channels and make sure it remains on the left. They will replace them for you. Always in the left channel for me as well. I was hoping the TC wouldn't have that issue as much as the previous versions.


----------



## SteveM324

littlej0e said:


> Anyone know if there are any other higher-end cable manufacturers in the USA besides Danacables that offer 30 day money-back guarantees and returns? That is an enormous value proposition for me and really makes me want to do business with them...
> 
> The only other alternative seems to be to buy cables from Amazon, but I'm worried about the fine print in the Terms and Conditions. Seems like cables would have to be returned unopened for guaranteed acceptance of a return, which pretty much negates the benefit of using Amazon in the first place.


Wywires has a 30 day return policy and they're located in California.  Here's a link to their return policy:
https://wywires.com/pages/purchase-return-policy


----------



## littlej0e

SteveM324 said:


> Wywires has a 30 day return policy and they're located in California.  Here's a link to their return policy:
> https://wywires.com/pages/purchase-return-policy


Added to the list...thanks!


----------



## joshUKUSA

So after some searching it sounds like these would be an ideal endgame headphone for me sound wise, mainly looking at the combo of bass, detail and soundstage which all sound like strengths for the abyss

What's holding me back are the consistent comments about how fit and slight adjustments can have a huge effect on sound, I would much prefer to be able to just put my headphones on my head and relax without constantly thinking about what little adjustments I have to make.

Is this aspect of the headphones understated and if not does anyone have recommendations on what sounds like the 1266 but without this aspect


----------



## paradoxper

kamlam said:


> Hey y’all I’ve been waiting to ask until after burn in... what could be your guess for why there’s on-off “buzzing” primarily in the left driver of my TC?


You say primarily in the left driver, are you intimating it was heard in both drivers at some time? 
It's usually advised to swap cable channels to see if the buzzing follows, you may also want to check your connection on the amp/DAC input.


----------



## Ciggavelli

joshUKUSA said:


> So after some searching it sounds like these would be an ideal endgame headphone for me sound wise, mainly looking at the combo of bass, detail and soundstage which all sound like strengths for the abyss
> 
> What's holding me back are the consistent comments about how fit and slight adjustments can have a huge effect on sound, I would much prefer to be able to just put my headphones on my head and relax without constantly thinking about what little adjustments I have to make.
> 
> Is this aspect of the headphones understated and if not does anyone have recommendations on what sounds like the 1266 but without this aspect


You’ll have some issues for like a week or so. Then, you should have figured out the best fit. After that happened with me, it only takes like a couple of seconds to adjust the fit as necessary. It’s not really a big problem. I even use a rocking chair when listening to my TCs. No problem at all. You just have to get over the initial fitting setup


----------



## kuzemchik

joshUKUSA said:


> So after some searching it sounds like these would be an ideal endgame headphone for me sound wise, mainly looking at the combo of bass, detail and soundstage which all sound like strengths for the abyss
> 
> What's holding me back are the consistent comments about how fit and slight adjustments can have a huge effect on sound, I would much prefer to be able to just put my headphones on my head and relax without constantly thinking about what little adjustments I have to make.
> 
> Is this aspect of the headphones understated and if not does anyone have recommendations on what sounds like the 1266 but without this aspect


I do rotate pads from time to time when I want to "try stuff". But in couple of weeks of listening (4-5 hours a day for me) you'll most likely find the fit you for the kind of music you listen the most. You basically gonna notice to which fit you returning most of the time. The only concern may be: it is possible that the fit that gives you the sound you like the most may be not the most comfortable. I'm usually listening Röyksopp with large opening behind my ears which is generally not very comfortable. But I do it anyway, because I like the bass that way.


----------



## joshUKUSA

Think i'd just have to decide whether I trust myself to not tinker constantly, it sounds odd but thats the same reason I don't EQ, I'm fully aware that if I started I would spend all my time making minor adjustments instead of actually listening to the music


----------



## 340519 (Feb 25, 2021)

joshUKUSA said:


> So after some searching it sounds like these would be an ideal endgame headphone for me sound wise, mainly looking at the combo of bass, detail and soundstage which all sound like strengths for the abyss
> 
> What's holding me back are the consistent comments about how fit and slight adjustments can have a huge effect on sound, I would much prefer to be able to just put my headphones on my head and relax without constantly thinking about what little adjustments I have to make.
> 
> Is this aspect of the headphones understated and if not does anyone have recommendations on what sounds like the 1266 but without this aspect


Yes the constant adjusting is irritating. I've had them 8 months so I disagree with the above posters about finding one setting and you're good to go.


----------



## JLoud

I just settled on what I liked the best, took a couple of hours, and leave it like that. If I move around a lot or lean back in my recliner, I may have to adjust position on my head. But it really isn't a big deal. Don't let that hold you back.


----------



## 340519 (Feb 25, 2021)

joshUKUSA said:


> Think i'd just have to decide whether I trust myself to not tinker constantly, it sounds odd but thats the same reason I don't EQ, I'm fully aware that if I started I would spend all my time making minor adjustments instead of actually listening to the music


Yes the 1266 are like this.  The tinkering would be my issue with them as I find myself constantly moving them around as it influences the bass.


----------



## paradoxper

joshUKUSA said:


> Think i'd just have to decide whether I trust myself to not tinker constantly, it sounds odd but thats the same reason I don't EQ, I'm fully aware that if I started I would spend all my time making minor adjustments instead of actually listening to the music


You will need to tinker upfront to understand the fit and its influence on sound. I might suggest you focus on the headband tension which will affect bass quantity for quality.


----------



## InstantSilence

Well, I decided to stick with the 4z. As when I do, pretty much all dsp gets shut down, and I get to enjoy things dsp free. 

But sure will miss the that TC bass
Resolution.. Surprisingly the 4z is really not far behind. 
What I won't miss is the horrid jps labs stock cable, and the constant adjustment and molesting the TC fit had to endure every few tracks. 

Ah... But the bass!.... Nooooooooo


----------



## jlbrach (Feb 25, 2021)

the bass on the TC relative to the 4z is probably the least of what I would miss given that the 4z bass is probably the best feature of the lcd-4,4z line....the detail and soundstage are what distinguish the abyss...I have had 2 lcd-4s and 1 lcd-4z and to me we are not talking the same league of HP but hey that what makes it fin...also the stock TC cable is the best stock cable I have yet heard for any of my HP's


----------



## joseph69

ken6217 said:


> Call Thr Cable Company. They loan all types of cables and brands.


Yes, but The Cable Company doesn't loan headphone cables because there are too many different configurations.


----------



## InstantSilence

jlbrach said:


> the bass on the TC relative to the 4z is probably the least of what I would miss given that the 4z bass is probably the best feature of the lcd-4,4z line....the detail and soundstage are what distinguish the abyss...I have had 2 lcd-4s and 1 lcd-4z and to me we are not talking the same league of HP but hey that what makes it fin...also the stock TC cable is the best stock cable I have yet heard for any of my HP's


I don't think the detail and resolution is that far off between the models 4,4z,tc really. 
Sure TC is boss king but due to forward and aggressive signature, it can give you those sweet details. In a harsh manner to me anyway. 
But I actually preferred the TC bass over the 4z.
I guess I just value 4z as Im able to use it without any dsp and eq to enjoy myself more than I really did with TC. 
But I sure will miss it.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I had the 4z and sold it. It has a nice midrange, but it’s definitely “veiled” compared to the TCs. I’ve been curious about the 4 though. I’m assuming it’s similar to the 4z, but I think my headphone amp would work better with the 4.


----------



## InstantSilence

Really just wish I was baller enough to own both, I definitely have a good chunk or recordings that TC could do without dsp and make it super enjoyable, 
Unfortunately the poor can only justify 1...


----------



## kamlam

ra990 said:


> Oh no, I had that in a few of my pairs. Swap the cable channels and make sure it remains on the left. They will replace them for you. Always in the left channel for me as well. I was hoping the TC wouldn't have that issue as much as the previous versions.


Okay will do. For example, does anything buzz for you at 0:25-0:30 of Adele’s “Skyfall”?


----------



## tkam

kamlam said:


> Okay will do. For example, does anything buzz for you at 0:25-0:30 of Adele’s “Skyfall”?



No buzz for me, using the Qobuz version of that track.


----------



## tkam

joshUKUSA said:


> So after some searching it sounds like these would be an ideal endgame headphone for me sound wise, mainly looking at the combo of bass, detail and soundstage which all sound like strengths for the abyss
> 
> What's holding me back are the consistent comments about how fit and slight adjustments can have a huge effect on sound, I would much prefer to be able to just put my headphones on my head and relax without constantly thinking about what little adjustments I have to make.
> 
> Is this aspect of the headphones understated and if not does anyone have recommendations on what sounds like the 1266 but without this aspect



It took me maybe a two or 3 days to figure out what positioning I like the best and then I just stopped trying different placements.  Once you hit on a positioning you like you'll get lost in the music and won't bother with changing it again.


----------



## OceanRanger

For those of you that enjoy having several TOTL headphones in your collections, I am curious about what causes you to pick up one pair vs another? Is it largely based on the genre of music to which you'd like to listen at the time? Are there other factors? Do you typically swap out multiple times during a single listening session? Do you find that you spend 80% of your time with your favorite pair or is your time more evenly split?


----------



## JLoud

For me it is two factors. Type of music and mood. If I feel like relaxing then the TC may not be my first choice. Maybe something like the Z1R, or the Vocé.  It’s not that the TC is bad at anything, just that a different headphone may excel at a particular quality I’m looking for right then.


----------



## ken6217

joseph69 said:


> Yes, but The Cable Company doesn't loan headphone cables because there are too many different configurations.


I didn’t know that. Are you sure?
I’ve only borrowed interconnects, digital cables, and power cables.


----------



## joseph69

ken6217 said:


> I didn’t know that. Are you sure?
> I’ve only borrowed interconnects, digital cables, and power cables.


Unfortunately, I'm 100% sure because I spoke to Ethan and he told me that they don't loan headphone cable because there are just too many different configurations. You're correct, they do loan all the cables mentioned above as well as headphones, but the last time I spoke to Ethan they weren't loaning out anything due to CV-19 but I'm not sure if that has changed since.


----------



## tkam

OceanRanger said:


> For those of you that enjoy having several TOTL headphones in your collections, I am curious about what causes you to pick up one pair vs another? Is it largely based on the genre of music to which you'd like to listen at the time? Are there other factors? Do you typically swap out multiple times during a single listening session? Do you find that you spend 80% of your time with your favorite pair or is your time more evenly split?



For my situation I have a couple of different set ups.  Usually keep the Aeolus & Empyrean with my work rig in the home office.  The Abyss & VC typically stay with the main rig.  I do not swap between genres or really even during a single listening session.  I'll usually pick a pair for a listening session and use them for the duration.


----------



## ra990

OceanRanger said:


> For those of you that enjoy having several TOTL headphones in your collections, I am curious about what causes you to pick up one pair vs another? Is it largely based on the genre of music to which you'd like to listen at the time? Are there other factors? Do you typically swap out multiple times during a single listening session? Do you find that you spend 80% of your time with your favorite pair or is your time more evenly split?


I find that listening to the same equipment every day makes you get numb to whatever makes it special. I try to reach for a variety of headphones to keep appreciating each one's strengths and weaknesses. Same goes with the electronics. On a day-to-day basis, what influences what I reach for will be my mood and what music I'm about to listen to.


----------



## OceanRanger

ra990 said:


> I find that listening to the same equipment every day makes you get numb to whatever makes it special. I try to reach for a variety of headphones to keep appreciating each one's strengths and weaknesses. Same goes with the electronics. On a day-to-day basis, what influences what I reach for will be my mood and what music I'm about to listen to.


@ra990 this is an awesome insight. The differences in experiences allow for a more tangible appreciation of what makes each HP, amp, DAC or cable different. Thank you!!!


----------



## ken6217

OceanRanger said:


> @ra990 this is an awesome insight. The differences in experiences allow for a more tangible appreciation of what makes each HP, amp, DAC or cable different. Thank you!!!


Not for me. I settled on my equipment because I like the sound. I wouldn’t have two sets of speakers in my listening room


----------



## OceanRanger

ken6217 said:


> Not for me. I settled on my equipment because I like the sound. I wouldn’t have two sets of speakers in my listening room


I agree with you regarding speakers in your listening room. My listening room is small, I have limited options and challenging acoustics. I like the sound of my equipment and any changes are cumbersome to make. For me, headphones provide a different opportunity. They are (relatively) small and not really subject to room acoustics. These attributes mean that one can quickly swap out the equivalent of an entire room and speakers without much effort. 

Different perspectives make this forum interesting. Thanks for your point of view.


----------



## 340519

JLoud said:


> For me it is two factors. Type of music and mood. If I feel like relaxing then the TC may not be my first choice. Maybe something like the Z1R, or the Vocé.  It’s not that the TC is bad at anything, just that a different headphone may excel at a particular quality I’m looking for right then.


I second the Z1R for just getting lost.  My absolute favorite can.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

dmdm said:


> I second the Z1R for just getting lost.  My absolute favorite can.


Funny, I found the Z1R easily to be my worst can (besides Grado). Nice bass (without too much sophistication) and a weird spike in the treble which made it sound thin and piercing. I really wanted to like it since it was so comfortable, but the tuning was so off.


----------



## 340519

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Funny, I found the Z1R easily to be my worst can (besides Grado). Nice bass (without too much sophistication) and a weird spike in the treble which made it sound thin and piercing. I really wanted to like it since it was so comfortable, but the tuning was so off.


That's alright, we'll just agree to disagree. It exhibits my perfect sound sig.


----------



## JLoud

I never noticed the treble spike, or at least it doesn’t bother me. I find going from something like the TC to Z1R makes the Sony sound dull. If you give your brain time to adjust all the details are there, they just aren’t jumping up and down to get your attention.


----------



## 340519

JLoud said:


> I never noticed the treble spike, or at least it doesn’t bother me. I find going from something like the TC to Z1R makes the Sony sound dull. If you give your brain time to adjust all the details are there, they just aren’t jumping up and down to get your attention.


I've never noticed a treble spike either.


----------



## decur

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Funny, I found the Z1R easily to be my worst can (besides Grado). Nice bass (without too much sophistication) and a weird spike in the treble which made it sound thin and piercing. I really wanted to like it since it was so comfortable, but the tuning was so off.


My moon audio black dragon cable fixed this problem for me
this phone,imo,is really sensitive to its cable.
the worst cable was the Sony kimber upgrade cable. Just horrible


----------



## MachineGunz

Hi everyone,

Hopefully you can help me.

I am facing a really annoying problem of bass imbalance and it's driving me crazy!

I started noticing it in multiple songs so I wanted to test this further.

Bass is much louder on the left side.

I tested the frequencies from 5hz to 100hz.

The largest differences are between 25hz to 50hz - In those frequencies the difference is huge and it feels like bass is mostly coming from the left ear - like 70% left ear,  30% right ear.

At 55hz the bass is much more even.

And between 60hz to 100hz the bass is perfectly even.

When I play at really low volume it doesn't even sounds like bass is playing from the right side.

The problem is the same even when I connected the cable in the opposite way.

And also when I turned the headphone on my head.

Has anyone else experienced this?


----------



## ra990

MachineGunz said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Hopefully you can help me.
> 
> ...


Sounds like an uneven fit causing bass imbalance. If you haven't already, try different ear pad positions on each side to see if that helps any.


----------



## MatW

ra990 said:


> Sounds like an uneven fit causing bass imbalance. If you haven't already, try different ear pad positions on each side to see if that helps any.


He said it's the same with the headphone switched around on his head, so that would suggest an issue with the left driver, no? Probably best to check with Abyss.


----------



## BrowChan

For somewhat-heavy bass fans.....especially the second one. Man...the extension and the presence. 

Hard to sleep when I keep running into such tracks.


----------



## reiten966

I finally got around to finishing this head strap, feels much comfortable than the stock strap  .


----------



## tholt

reiten966 said:


> I finally got around to finishing this head strap, feels much comfortable than the stock strap  .


Nice job. Would 'Like' this but I notice there is no more Like link? Anyone else?


----------



## reiten966

tholt said:


> Nice job. Would 'Like' this but I notice there is no more Like link? Anyone else?


Lolll, I don't see a like link either. Never came across this situation.

Oh boi, I can't be liked.


----------



## MatW

I see the like button, but there are others who don't. Probably related to a recent site update. This post mentions something about an ad blocker, maybe this helps:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fli...dio-discussion.826876/page-1858#post-16201702


----------



## reiten966

MatW said:


> I see the like button, but there are others who don't. Probably related to a recent site update. This post mentions something about an ad blocker, maybe this helps:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fli...dio-discussion.826876/page-1858#post-16201702


Interesting…Thanks for the information!


----------



## tholt

MatW said:


> I see the like button, but there are others who don't. Probably related to a recent site update. This post mentions something about an ad blocker, maybe this helps:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fli...dio-discussion.826876/page-1858#post-16201702


Ahhhh....yep. That's it -– ad blocker. Weird. Please know that I'd 'like' your post


----------



## paradoxper

reiten966 said:


> Lolll, I don't see a like link either. Never came across this situation.
> 
> Oh boi, I can't be liked.


I shadow-liked your post, you know, in case I'm not around afterwards.


----------



## reiten966

paradoxper said:


> I shadow-liked your post, you know, in case I'm not around afterwards.





tholt said:


> Ahhhh....yep. That's it -– ad blocker. Weird. Please know that I'd 'like' your post


Thanks🤣 really appreciate that.


----------



## makan

reiten966 said:


> I finally got around to finishing this head strap, feels much comfortable than the stock strap  .


Looks great...I would like to be your first customer!


----------



## reiten966

makan said:


> Looks great...I would like to be your first customer!


Thanks for your appreciation! I am no expert in leathercraft, this is probably my 5th project with leather. If you don't mind the inconsistency in quality...I can probably make some more in my free time haha.


----------



## JLoud

Don't call it inconsistency, just say each piece is a "unique" handcrafted work of art.


----------



## makan

reiten966 said:


> Thanks for your appreciation! I am no expert in leathercraft, this is probably my 5th project with leather. If you don't mind the inconsistency in quality...I can probably make some more in my free time haha.


I’m in!


----------



## Bonddam

MachineGunz said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Hopefully you can help me.
> 
> ...


This is same for me if you move your head bass disappears on one side. What fixed this was finding toe in, proper soft seal and keeping my head and body in one position. Bending out the frame on one side by a bit. I have it now that if I keep my head vertical to my torso and don't move much I'm fine. This took me a long time to figure out like a year. Must have trained myself to sit properly when using 1266. Sometimes I lean forward this produces thicker bass. Last the position of the pads are in this position


----------



## Bonddam

I know this isn't 1266 related but hoping you all would know what I'm missing. I connect from my laptop to my DAC's. I stream all my music from Tidal and Apple Music through their apps. I was concerned that my laptop isn't shooting out all the bits. Should I have another device like a network streamer or some program like HQplayer? My T+A manual for my HA-200 wrote down that Windows doesn't actually go over 48khz. I may have gotten confused because Tidal has exclusive mode and my DAC's show the correct but rate. 

For a setup the HA-200 has high current with low wattage and because of the current at 700mA powers the 1266 really good.


----------



## tkam

With Windows you might need to install a driver to get higher resolution output - but per your photo there it seems to be showing a 96 khz input already so it seems good.


----------



## Bonddam

Thanks


----------



## Ciggavelli

For the TC metal heads (the Qobuz version is 24/96, and it's insane on the TCs)


----------



## MachineGunz

Ciggavelli said:


> For the TC metal heads (the Qobuz version is 24/96, and it's insane on the TCs)



OMG I CAN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND THIS

THIS IS PURE PEFRECTION I CAN'T!!!!!!

*THE DRUMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE SPEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE BASSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!*

I AM DEVASTATED!!! 

I am just hearing this on repeat!





Bonddam said:


> I know this isn't 1266 related but hoping you all would know what I'm missing. I connect from my laptop to my DAC's. I stream all my music from Tidal and Apple Music through their apps. I was concerned that my laptop isn't shooting out all the bits. Should I have another device like a network streamer or some program like HQplayer? My T+A manual for my HA-200 wrote down that Windows doesn't actually go over 48khz. I may have gotten confused because Tidal has exclusive mode and my DAC's show the correct but rate.
> 
> For a setup the HA-200 has high current with low wattage and because of the current at 700mA powers the 1266 really good.


Don't worry, Exclusive mode completely ignores windows and just sends the signal as it is to the dac. So windows is not even messing with the signal.

Just make sure to install the driver if your dac has one.


----------



## Ciggavelli

More crazy music that sounds amazing on the TCs:


----------



## Gavin C4

Hello, does anyone here have experience with HD650 / HD6XX. Specifically in comparison with the mids vocals. I am currently using Utopia (norne audio silvergarde S4) and HD6XX. With my setup, I still find the HD6XX's vocals are more special. 

I would like to ask can someone provide more insight on 1266's vocals and mids? 
From my reading, I do know that 1266's bass and highs excel above the Utopia. And 1266 have significantly larger sound stage compared to Utopia. 

Thank you


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Gavin C4 said:


> Hello, does anyone here have experience with HD650 / HD6XX. Specifically in comparison with the mids vocals. I am currently using Utopia (norne audio silvergarde S4) and HD6XX. With my setup, I still find the HD6XX's vocals are more special.
> 
> I would like to ask can someone provide more insight on 1266's vocals and mids?
> From my reading, I do know that 1266's bass and highs excel above the Utopia. And 1266 have significantly larger sound stage compared to Utopia.
> ...



What makes you think HD6XX have more special vocal than utopia?


----------



## 340519

I dig the 6xx and 650 series of senns, but mainly the 600. I would be happy with the 600 if I could only have one headphone.  Fantastic sound


----------



## Gavin C4 (Feb 28, 2021)

TheMiddleSky said:


> What makes you think HD6XX have more special vocal than utopia?


HD6XX has slightly lusher mids thats makes the vocal more emotional, while the vocals on the Utopia are more transparent, IMO 

may i have more insight on 1266s vocals compaired to Utopia or HD 6XX


----------



## Skywatcher (Mar 1, 2021)

Gavin C4 said:


> HD6XX has slightly lusher mids thats makes the vocal more emotional, while the vocals on the Utopia are more transparent, IMO
> 
> may i have more insight on 1266s vocals compaired to Utopia or HD 6XX


At this tier of financial investment, you understand that you will have to hear it for yourself and make up your own opinion.
Judging for your description of your preferences, and putting out the disclaimer that this is just my subjective opinion, the 1266TC is very transparent and powerful. I wouldn't call it aggressive, otherwise I wouldn't have liked it and purchased it, but transparent and powerful, yes.
For something more "involvent" in terms of voices, but of a similar quality tier, I would check the Hifiman Susvara. That might align more to that preference you stated. 
The obvious, strong recommendation is for you to trial both, of course. It was an eye opener for me, at least.


----------



## JLoud

Another suggestion for vocals is the LCD4. Very lush mids and warmer sound than TC. I have both and prefer the Audeze for vocals. I had the Utopia and it was more similar than different to the TC. The TC did most of what the Utopia did but with bigger sound stage and deeper bass.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

I just sold my Utopias, so I am also selling my AffinityAdapers from Singapore from ab-1266tc to the Utopia. It is the Deluxe Version with original (black) Lemo plugs and upgraded materials. Definitely worth it when using the SC cable with the Utopias. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wts...n-mini-xlr-utopia-lemo-deluxe-version.956241/ 
Cheerio


----------



## spacelion2077

Has anyone had any issues with channel imbalances with Ab 1266tc? My right channel's bass started to sound boomy at low frequencies but everything else is fine.


----------



## MachineGunz

spacelion2077 said:


> Has anyone had any issues with channel imbalances with Ab 1266tc? My right channel's bass started to sound boomy at low frequencies but everything else is fine.



I have a similar issue - For me the bass from the left side is much louder.

But I truly think it's a fit issue - Even though I still can't completely fix it.


----------



## spacelion2077

you can have it tested it. it's weird my ab 1266 tc right channel's bass has overwhelming presence at 20 hertz, the left channel is completely mute, after 30 hertz, everything is focused on centered again.


----------



## MachineGunz

spacelion2077 said:


> you can have it tested it. it's weird my ab 1266 tc right channel's bass has overwhelming presence at 20 hertz, the left channel is completely mute, after 30 hertz, everything is focused on centered again.



Yes it's a fit issue.

I just can't find a way to make the entire bass range even.

from 25hz to 40hz bass is stronger on the left side.

from 45hz - 60hz it's perfectly even.

from 65hz - 80hz it's almost completely from the right side.

When I move my head while hearing a certain bass frequency this balance changes, And of course moving the pads on my head also affects this.

Try and bend the frame and see if it helps you.


----------



## spacelion2077

I have the same issue. bass shifts weirdly at some frequencies. I have my pads adjusted to 8 and 4 o'clock. How do you know this is a fit issue btw


----------



## qboogie

Even a 1 degree bend on either one of the headband frame angles can affect this. I was able to resolve this issue for myself by bending to get the angles congruent


----------



## ken6217

qboogie said:


> Even a 1 degree bend on either one of the headband frame angles can affect this. I was able to resolve this issue for myself by bending to get the angles congruent



Exactly. I had the same issue with mine the first few weeks I had it, and I even sent them back and Joe tested them and said they were fine. I got them back and played with them and realized it was the positioning.


----------



## DJJEZ

qboogie said:


> Even a 1 degree bend on either one of the headband frame angles can affect this. I was able to resolve this issue for myself by bending to get the angles congruent



Did you end up keeping the super conductor 1266 cable in the end?


----------



## Abyss Headphones




----------



## Bonddam

My fit for Dubstep electronic music is semi seal. If I create gap all around I loose the linearity. There's a small gap in the back that is inch in length. If I kept the Diana's I should have gotten something soft to break the seal as the sweet spot was having a gap on that headphone.


----------



## alcarvalho

I'm thinking of getting a pair of 1266. My current DAC/AMP is an Ayre Codex, which I don't know if will be powerful enough for these headphones. I'm debating on if I should get the XIAUDIO Formula-S with them or get a Chord Hugo TT2 or even a Dave if I find a good deal on used one, anyone tried connecting them directly to the Hugo TT2?


----------



## jlbrach

the formula s/powerman is wonderful...the abyss out of the dave is doable but not optimal...I understand the TT2 is better in that regard but of course isnt as good a DAC...dave and formula s /powerman is fantastic


----------



## paradoxper

alcarvalho said:


> I'm thinking of getting a pair of 1266. My current DAC/AMP is an Ayre Codex, which I don't know if will be powerful enough for these headphones. I'm debating on if I should get the XIAUDIO Formula-S with them or get a Chord Hugo TT2 or even a Dave if I find a good deal on used one, anyone tried connecting them directly to the Hugo TT2?


Don't waste your money on another headamp especially one that is rather simply overpriced.
You might as well upgrade in the line and follow up with AX-5 or similar integrated.


----------



## alcarvalho

paradoxper said:


> Don't waste your money on another headamp especially one that is rather simply overpriced.
> You might as well upgrade in the line and follow up with AX-5 or similar integrated.


Oh, that's an interesting perspective. Do you think the Codex will be able to drive them? And also the AX-5 is an integrated that doesn't have a phone output specifically, are you recommending it for the the headphones or for the rest of the system?


----------



## Bonddam

Best bang for the buck is Milo - Reference Milo. It's got some bloom in bass and warm sound. Gives you 12 watts for 1266 TC. I went with the Reference for the upgrades but base is 1600.


----------



## paradoxper

alcarvalho said:


> Oh, that's an interesting perspective. Do you think the Codex will be able to drive them? And also the AX-5 is an integrated that doesn't have a phone output specifically, are you recommending it for the the headphones or for the rest of the system?


Keep in mind you are in the Summit. It will drive them to competence but highly unlikely to satisfaction depending on your reference.
Being Summit is also why I recommend you don't buy into headamps unless you'd like to pursue the DIY side of things.

I brought up the AX-5 as you seem to enjoy Ayre's zero feedback topology and their diamond output stage that is only continued to the Nth through the AX-5.
For headphone output you would use spade > 4-pin XLR adapter cables.


----------



## Ciggavelli

alcarvalho said:


> I'm thinking of getting a pair of 1266. My current DAC/AMP is an Ayre Codex, which I don't know if will be powerful enough for these headphones. I'm debating on if I should get the XIAUDIO Formula-S with them or get a Chord Hugo TT2 or even a Dave if I find a good deal on used one, anyone tried connecting them directly to the Hugo TT2?


@paradoxper may be right about going with an integrated speaker amp. It appears others think the same. Me, I dunno. I had the TT2 and found it to not be powerful enough out of the 6.35 jack. You’ll probably have to go double XLR out the back of the TT2 to get adequate bass. I have the DAVE now, and there’s no way you can push the TCs to an adequate level; you definitely need to add a headphone amp.

Between choosing the TT2 or Formula-S, I think you’d be better off with the Formula, as it was designed with the TCs in mind. I’d look at other headphone amps too, to see if another amp better suits your need and preferred genres. If you like Electronica and hip-hop (for example), you’ll want a different sound compared to somebody that listens to jazz or classical. The TCs can render all genres well, but your amp can take it in different directions.


----------



## ra990

alcarvalho said:


> I'm thinking of getting a pair of 1266. My current DAC/AMP is an Ayre Codex, which I don't know if will be powerful enough for these headphones. I'm debating on if I should get the XIAUDIO Formula-S with them or get a Chord Hugo TT2 or even a Dave if I find a good deal on used one, anyone tried connecting them directly to the Hugo TT2?


Hi there, I drive both the Abyss and my Susvara from the TT2's balanced outs. I've compared the output from speaker amps as well. I prefer them directly out of the TT2. Obviously, the appropriate cable/adapter must be purchased to drive headphones balanced out of the TT2, but there's plenty of power to tap into - especially for the Abyss, they're easy compared to the Susvara. Let me know if you have any other questions.


----------



## Bonddam

The TT2 have a high current coming out of the xlrs on the back? Curious how it's pushing so much with small footprint.


----------



## ra990

Bonddam said:


> The TT2 have a high current coming out of the xlrs on the back? Curious how it's pushing so much with small footprint.


Yep, TT2 does 18watts into 8ohms. It's the supercapacitors and a new output stage with some trickle down tech from their upcoming digital amps. It's unfortunate they didn't just put an XLR4 port on it and instead make you get a custom adapter or cables.


----------



## Bonddam

18 watts is what my Headtrip produces at 50 ohms. Cut your 18 down on the TT2 to 50 ohms. My Milo does more. You sure there isn't a load of current? You get an amp of current flowing into the 1266 and it will sing. Got my Dragon coming and that puts out 1 amp of current per channel. Plus there's 5 watts of power. My T+A HA-200 powers the 1266 really good with 700 mA per channel with only 1.5 watts. So I gotta believe there's current in that TT2 they must not be sharing. If it's digital which just means D class they sound like they being doing what Rockford Fosgate did in the beginning of last decade with a amp size of cd case that used the car battery.


----------



## OceanRanger

Bonddam said:


> 18 watts is what my Headtrip produces at 50 ohms. Cut your 18 down on the TT2 to 50 ohms. My Milo does more. You sure there isn't a load of current? You get an amp of current flowing into the 1266 and it will sing. Got my Dragon coming and that puts out 1 amp of current per channel. Plus there's 5 watts of power. My T+A HA-200 powers the 1266 really good with 700 mA per channel with only 1.5 watts. So I gotta believe there's current in that TT2 they must not be sharing. If it's digital which just means D class they sound like they being doing what Rockford Fosgate did in the beginning of last decade with a amp size of cd case that used the car battery.


I feel like I should have paid more attention to Ohm's law...


----------



## Bonddam

I did 30 day cert program at metra learning electronics building custom audio calculating the sub box to the vehicle itself. This was what made calculus fun.


----------



## ra990 (Mar 3, 2021)

Bonddam said:


> 18 watts is what my Headtrip produces at 50 ohms. Cut your 18 down on the TT2 to 50 ohms. My Milo does more. You sure there isn't a load of current? You get an amp of current flowing into the 1266 and it will sing. Got my Dragon coming and that puts out 1 amp of current per channel. Plus there's 5 watts of power. My T+A HA-200 powers the 1266 really good with 700 mA per channel with only 1.5 watts. So I gotta believe there's current in that TT2 they must not be sharing. If it's digital which just means D class they sound like they being doing what Rockford Fosgate did in the beginning of last decade with a amp size of cd case that used the car battery.



"The _Hugo_ TT 2 no longer utilizes a battery power supply. Instead, an external large 15V 4000mA power supply charges six super-capacitors capable of delivering huge reserves of linear dynamic currents when the music demands it."

"*peak output of 5A, 9.3V RMS*." < from specs page


----------



## paradoxper

Bonddam said:


> 18 watts is what my Headtrip produces at 50 ohms. Cut your 18 down on the TT2 to 50 ohms. My Milo does more. You sure there isn't a load of current? You get an amp of current flowing into the 1266 and it will sing. Got my Dragon coming and that puts out 1 amp of current per channel. Plus there's 5 watts of power. My T+A HA-200 powers the 1266 really good with 700 mA per channel with only 1.5 watts. So I gotta believe there's current in that TT2 they must not be sharing. If it's digital which just means D class they sound like they being doing what Rockford Fosgate did in the beginning of last decade with a amp size of cd case that used the car battery.


LMAO. Nope. Yet again.
8 watts nominal into 50 ohms. 

Christ.


----------



## rayofsi

just got my set of hypershort adapters from Norne for the Vykari i was using with my susvara. Night and day difference between the stock cable. just wow!


----------



## alcarvalho

Just ordered them. Can't wait! When they arrive I'll see what I'll do about the amp and maybe dac.


----------



## yagislav

For those with the WA33, what Impedance (H/L) and Level (H/L) do you find the best with the 1266?


----------



## Ciggavelli

yagislav said:


> For those with the WA33, what Impedance (H/L) and Level (H/L) do you find the best with the 1266?


I used to go high impedance and high gain. I switched it to low impedance and high gain recently, and I think it sounds better.


----------



## JLoud

I run low impedance and high gain. Plenty of volume control left even at high volume listening.


----------



## littlej0e

Does anyone have experience with any of the servers/transports below? I'm wondering how well they play with the Abyss 1266 Phi TC's in particular, but I would appreciate any insight anyone could provide. 

Antipodes K50:
https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-k50.php
Aurender ACS10: https://aurender.com/acs10/
432 EVO Master music server:
https://432evo.be/index.php/432-evo-master-music-server/
I thought about adding the Innous Statement as well (based on a very highly respected recommendation) but the K50 and 432 EVO seem like more versatile and "nerd friendly" boxes for the money. Not sure how the sound quality would compare though and that's obviously the most important thing.


----------



## ken6217

littlej0e said:


> Does anyone have experience with any of the servers/transports below? I'm wondering how well they play with the Abyss 1266 Phi TC's in particular, but I would appreciate any insight anyone could provide.
> 
> Antipodes K50:
> https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-k50.php
> ...



I demoed the Innous Statement and then heard the Aurender N20 and bought that instead. Similar pricing.  

The ACS10  has a DAC incorporated in it and so it is different than than the other servers you mentioned. Unless you don’t care about Roon, you’ll have to pass on Aurender.

I’m sure the K50 sounds good. I used to own one of the earlier models. They change their lineup with a new “best” frequently and the price keeps climbing.

The 432 EVO it’s totally different than all the other servers. It plays music at 432 Hz versus the standard of 440 Hz. I was going to demo it, but I decided against it.

All of the servers that you mentioned range from around $6000-$15,000. Do yourself a favor and do the work yourself, and listen to these instead of the highly respected person. I’ve followed your posts, and you need to spend time and listen to what you like. There really is no good or bad equipment. It’s what you like to listen to. Everyone has different tastes. Your well respected friend’s opinion is no better or worse than anyone else’s opinion, including mine. It’s just  an opinion based on what we like individually.


----------



## koven

littlej0e said:


> Does anyone have experience with any of the servers/transports below? I'm wondering how well they play with the Abyss 1266 Phi TC's in particular, but I would appreciate any insight anyone could provide.
> 
> Antipodes K50:
> https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-k50.php
> ...



These mainstream servers are pretty overpriced IMO, especially in light of their small, albeit existent, contribution towards SQ . Ideally I would say do research and build your own server but in lieu of that time sink, I would suggest an alternate consideration which is to commission a custom build with e.g. Larry @ Pareto Audio. His builds use an optimized Audiolinux OS and proven LPS of your choice such as Sean Jacobs or Paul Hynes. He'll work w/ you to spec out your needs on CPU, storage, memory, casing, I/O, noise reduction measures, and more. All dependent on your use case e.g. Roon core, HQP upsampling, etc. Worth an exploratory conversation w/ him if you're looking for a server.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

Just received my set today and I am very happy to report that I am in this TOTL headphones club ! These headphones are truly amazing and definitely worth the wait !


----------



## Sajid Amit

Has anyone had to replace the headband on the 1266 because the stretch rings have torn?

Are replacement stretch rings even available?


----------



## genefruit

Sajid Amit said:


> Has anyone had to replace the headband on the 1266 because the stretch rings have torn?
> 
> Are replacement stretch rings even available?


"o-ring" search returns many comments.  This one points to a multi-pack for choices in sizing - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-921#post-16151916


----------



## Ragnar-BY

Bonddam said:


> Must have trained myself to sit properly when using 1266.


The main and the only reason why I refused to buy 1266 🤣 Hope one day Abyss would learn how to make headphones comfortable.


----------



## Bonddam

Ragnar-BY said:


> The main and the only reason why I refused to buy 1266 🤣 Hope one day Abyss would learn how to make headphones comfortable.


Only wimps need comfort. I like living on the edge if I could afford it I'd have a TC for everyday of the week.


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> Only wimps need comfort. I like living on the edge if I could afford it I'd have a TC for everyday of the week.


They are comfortable. Only wimps think they’re not.


----------



## Ragnar-BY

ken6217 said:


> They are comfortable.


As long as you sit straight and don’t move 🤣


----------



## paradoxper

Ragnar-BY said:


> As long as you sit straight and don’t move 🤣


Stop fidgeting, child.


----------



## ken6217

you’re confusing comfort. Sitting straight has nothing do with the comfort on your head.

I’d rather wear headphones like this that don’t clamp down on your ears as opposed to ones that do.


----------



## Bonddam

Ragnar-BY said:


> As long as you sit straight and don’t move 🤣


Hey gotta enjoy them man.


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 4, 2021)

koven said:


> These mainstream servers are pretty overpriced IMO, especially in light of their small, albeit existent, contribution towards SQ . Ideally I would say do research and build your own server but in lieu of that time sink, I would suggest an alternate consideration which is to commission a custom build with e.g. Larry @ Pareto Audio. His builds use an optimized Audiolinux OS and proven LPS of your choice such as Sean Jacobs or Paul Hynes. He'll work w/ you to spec out your needs on CPU, storage, memory, casing, I/O, noise reduction measures, and more. All dependent on your use case e.g. Roon core, HQP upsampling, etc. Worth an exploratory conversation w/ him if you're looking for a server.


You had me at "audiolinux OS"...

Thank you _*so much*_ for the recommendation and contact info. This really seems like the way to go. I run a 3 node Nutanix/VMware ESXI cluster on stupidly resourced array of Dell R420s. One of the VMs I'm running is an Emby media server running on top of Ubuntu Server 20.04. I was thinking about running HQplayer on a Ubuntu Desktop VM to handle the upsampling from the media server (and make use of all the spare CPU cycles and RAM that are mostly just sitting there), but I was worried about:

Audio file quality streaming across my inherently noisy network. Probably no different than Roon now that I think about it.
Noise/EMI of using a VM media player as a source/upscaler traversing individual servers, server array, switch, router, firewall, UPS, modem, WAPs/Zigbee receivers, IT rack, etc.
Physically connecting my DAC to the server array in another room. Unfortunately my DAC doesn't have a network uplink (Holo May KTE). I could always sell the KTE and upgrade to a DAC with a network port I suppose.
Given the above, I thought it best to get a dedicated streamer/transport in a separate, mostly-shielded rack with my amp, DAC, and conditioner.

What do you think? Use the fancy IT stuff or build a custom dedicated streamer/transport? The real question is, will a dedicated streamer provide any appreciable difference in quality or enjoyment over my super nerd solution? Given the revealing nature of my setup, I assume the answer is yes (Abyss 1266 Phi TC > WA33 EE w/JPS wires > AudioQuest Fire cables > Holo May KTE > VM media server/custom streamer/pc for now). But If the answer is no, I'd rather save the money and buy a bouncy castle or go to Outback for a steak...lol


----------



## littlej0e

PortableAudioLover said:


> Just received my set today and I am very happy to report that I am in this TOTL headphones club ! These headphones are truly amazing and definitely worth the wait !


Nice! Congrats, dude!!! How are you liking them?


----------



## Bonddam

littlej0e said:


> You had me at "audiolinux OS"...
> 
> Thank you _*so much*_ for the recommendation and contact info. This really seems like the way to go. I run a 3 node Nutanix/VMware ESXI cluster on stupidly resourced array of Dell R420s. One of the VMs I'm running is an Emby media server running on top of Ubuntu Server 20.04. I was thinking about running HQplayer on a Ubuntu Desktop VM to handle the upsampling from the media server (and make use of all the spare CPU cycles and RAM that are mostly just sitting there), but I was worried about:
> 
> ...


I can't wait to connect the May to my Elite(didn't splurge for jps). I ordered the KR tubes yesterday so hopefully tomorrow I can swap out acme 2A3's. Have EML 300b 2.5 enroute. Should receive sometime during this year as long as EML doesn't F it up again.


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 4, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> I demoed the Innous Statement and then heard the Aurender N20 and bought that instead. Similar pricing.
> 
> The ACS10  has a DAC incorporated in it and so it is different than than the other servers you mentioned. Unless you don’t care about Roon, you’ll have to pass on Aurender.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the guidance and info (yet again). You're mostly correct with everything in your post. I guess I should have been a bit more transparent (HIYO!!! That was my first audio joke...) with my decision-making and purchase process:

Get often lightly-biased recommendations from folks on Head-fi, and other forums, to narrow down the impossibly large list of options into something much more manageable and actionable. I learned sig snooping is extremely valuable here.
Validate Head-fi/other forum recommendations with online dealer (the guy I'm actually buying stuff from), absorb his often semi-biased opinion, then make adjustments as needed.
Obsessively consult the Googlizer, YouTube, Head-fi, headphones.com, reddit, and whatever else I can find, to read/listen to every review and bit of info I can get my hands on.
Visit multiple local dealers to test and validate recommendations and information gathered above. This typically involves:
Listening to uncomfortably-biased sales pitches and horseshit from approx. 60-70% of local dealers. Some were obviously better than others...
Testing what I want to test, often including local salespeople's recommendations for thoroughness (incidentally, I found this approach particularly valuable when I was deciding on cables).
Leave.
Form my own opinions based on the information gathered.

Consult the Googlizer, YouTube, forums, etc. again to validate my personal findings, address concerns, etc.
Place order with online dealer.
Which brings me back to the streamers...I am currently soliciting recommendations and information in accordance with step 1

You are right about the ASC10. The N20 would be a far better choice. Options list updated -thanks!
Thanks for the info on the K50. This was the front-runner before Koven's custom recommendation. If I do go with a COTS streaming box, the K50 or the N20 will likely be it.
432Hz on the EVO is an _optional_ post-processing mode. Aside from the purported ultra-high quality and performance, that was mainly why I was looking at it. Seemed like a bit of a novelty to be sure, but the option would be nice to have. That said, this seems like a rather expensive and somewhat obscure box. Me thinks a warranty claim would be a nightmare as they don't have any official US distributors. I'll probably just cross this off the list for my own sanity.
I think I'm going to take Koven's advice and go the custom route. Will likely be cheaper and I'll get a purpose-built box with everything I want and hopefully very little of what I don't (plus audiolinux OS = nerdgasms!!!).


----------



## littlej0e

Bonddam said:


> I can't wait to connect the May to my Elite(didn't splurge for jps). I ordered the KR tubes yesterday so hopefully tomorrow I can swap out acme 2A3's. Have EML 300b 2.5 enroute. Should receive sometime during this year as long as EML doesn't F it up again.


Ohhh very nice!!! Let me know how it sounds, pretty please! The May is the only thing I wasn't able to test before ordering and I'm extremely interested in the sound and synergy between that and the WA33 EE. The JPS wiring will likely sound a bit different, but your feedback and opinions would still be a phenomenal place to start!


----------



## koven

littlej0e said:


> You had me at "audiolinux OS"...
> 
> Thank you _*so much*_ for the recommendation and contact info. This really seems like the way to go. I run a 3 node Nutanix/VMware ESXI cluster on stupidly resourced array of Dell R420s. One of the VMs I'm running is an Emby media server running on top of Ubuntu Server 20.04. I was thinking about running HQplayer on a Ubuntu Desktop VM to handle the upsampling from the media server (and make use of all the spare CPU cycles and RAM that are mostly just sitting there), but I was worried about:
> 
> ...



Well on one hand leveraging your existing systems should be sufficient, but on the other hand, a dedicated solution should theoretically perform superior. Plus as someone in the quest towards pinnacle SQ, the curiosity of not going dedicated will surely cause you to lose sleep so you might as well concede to that in advance and bite the bullet. I can kind of relate because I have a Plex media server which is powerful enough to throw in Roon/HQP but I choose to keep my music separated/isolated. Coincidentally my setup is nearly identical to yours down to the AQ Fire, only difference is my WA33 is the standard version. I've used Antipodes in the past, Innuos more recently, but these custom Audiolinux servers w/ LPS sound magnificent when built and tweaked properly. Truly an incredible value proposition and, excuse the cliché, but giant-killers really.


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 4, 2021)

koven said:


> Well on one hand leveraging your existing systems should be sufficient, but on the other hand, a dedicated solution should theoretically perform superior. Plus as someone in the quest towards pinnacle SQ, the curiosity of not going dedicated will surely cause you to lose sleep so you might as well concede to that in advance and bite the bullet. I can kind of relate because I have a Plex media server which is powerful enough to throw in Roon/HQP but I choose to keep my music separated/isolated. Coincidentally my setup is nearly identical to yours down to the AQ Fire, only difference is my WA33 is the standard version. I've used Antipodes in the past, Innuos more recently, but these custom Audiolinux servers w/ LPS sound magnificent when built and tweaked properly. Truly an incredible value proposition and, excuse the cliché, but giant-killers really.



You are absolutely spot on and I agree wholeheartedly. I would likely end up losing my will power at some point and going dedicated eventually, so I might as well rip off the Band-Aid

I actually just finished speaking with Larry over the phone. We nerded it up for a good hour+ and I am _definitely_ going the custom route through Pareto audio. Thanks again for the recommendation. Sincerely. You just saved me a butt-load of money while increasing the overall quality and subsequent enjoyment of my system. Is there like a Koven tip jar somewhere?!? I think I need one for a few others on this forum as well...

Also, Larry echoed what we both assumed; a dedicated streamer will indeed yield vastly superior sound quality and performance. The only remaining questions and/or concerns I have are:

Stability. What is the long-term stability and projected lifespan of these systems (if known)? Do they require constant tweaking or updates (provided I can actually restrain myself from messing with and breaking it long before this ever becomes relevant)? Can you treat them as true "set it and forget it" systems just like a normal COTS server?
Performance. What is the actual apples-to-apples difference in performance compared with any of the aforementioned high-end servers (K50, N20, Statement)?
Survivability and Support. What is the long-term support model if Larry gets hit by a truck? I assume it is the same as every other manufacturer that goes out of business, offers limited support and/or terrible warranties; you are on your own.
I also just want to emphatically agree with and reiterate what you said about value proposition for others that may come across this thread. You can get the exact performance, power, connectivity, storage, components, etc., etc. that you want at a much lower price without any of the ancillary cost of marketing, R&D, etc. stacked on top. Furthermore, the custom route is likely the best way to go for most people running higher-end systems who are looking for the very best price-to-performance. The overall value here is just _nuts_...

Same system, eh?!? Holy crap!!! Now I have even more questions...

Are you currently using a custom server from Pareto Audio? Contextually, I assumed you are and if so:
Can you answer any of my questions above?
What is your overall level of satisfaction with the system and any support you received (if any)?

What is your overall impression of the WA33 + May KTE pairing?
How well do they synergize/pair compared to other DAC combos you may have tried?
Are there any nuances or "gotchas" with this paring that I should be aware of?
Have you noticed any increases or decreases in soundstage, clarity, and 3D imaging using the 1266 Phi TCs with this pairing?

Do you use any other types of cables and/or different materials elsewhere in your system to "balance out the silver" or are you full AQ Fire/silver cables all the way through? I tried approx. 15 other cable types from 7 different manufacturers before I settled on the AQ fires. I found the transparency and clarity of AQ fires intoxicating, bordering on addicting, and ultimately just too good to pass up. The only cables I didn't get to try that I wanted to were the JPS alumiloys.

Lastly, sorry for the wall(s) of text and for barraging you with questions. It's just hard to find 1st-hand information that is this relevant to my specific setup...


----------



## koven

littlej0e said:


> You are absolutely spot on and I agree wholeheartedly. I would likely end up losing my will power at some point and going dedicated eventually, so I might as well rip off the Band-Aid
> 
> I actually just finished speaking with Larry over the phone. We nerded it up for a good hour+ and I am _definitely_ going the custom route through Pareto audio. Thanks again for the recommendation. Sincerely. You just saved me a butt-load of money while increasing the overall quality and subsequent enjoyment of my system. Is there like a Koven tip jar somewhere?!? I think I need one for a few others on this forum as well...
> 
> ...



Yeah Larry is a pleasure to chat with, super nice and knowledgeable. I currently have a DIY Audiolinux build going w/ some spare parts/LPS, it's a pretty scrappy hodgepodge as I've never done this before and only began learning/tinkering by reading through massive threads on AudiophileStyle forum. I have a Zenith mk3 as well, but it's not possible to install HQP on it. Even if it was, the CPU is too weak for upsampling. So I started toying with this after I got the May, in pursuit of unleashing HQP 768khz into it. I've come to find that Audiolinux OS is a gem in terms of utter sound quality, even with my frankenstein rig. I can see the potential w/ a more targeted build and configuration. This is where I began feeling like I'm in over my head on optimizing a Audiolinux server, some of the more technical tweaks I've read about are beyond my confidence and patience. As a result I came across Larry and am in process of getting a server built by him. 

I think May (and WA33) both have strong synergy with TC. I like the combo more than most of my past DACs and amps. TC is aggressive/extreme on resolution/transparency. It's a jaw dropper in bursts but sometimes a bit overbearing for long sessions. For me, both May and WA33 introduce a much appreciated smoothness and tonality to TC, w/o sacrificing it's hyper-detailed nature. I used to switch over to Susvara after a short listen w/ TC. But now I can listen to TC happily for many consecutive hours. 

I use AQ Tornado power alongside the Fire XLR. I've also tried a bunch of popular cables in this price range but ultimately landed w/ AQ. They intentionally moved away from using silver in power cables w/ their latest Storm series lineup. I remember reading an article explaining their rationale but don't recall the specifics. But I totally echo your impression of the Fire. It's an eye opener, probably good enough to sway diehard objectivists. Shunyata was a close second for me on power, but Fire was by far my favorite interconnect.


----------



## qboogie

DJJEZ said:


> Did you end up keeping the super conductor 1266 cable in the end?


To be honest, I'm probably going to sell it. 

Does anyone know if JPS sells the SC HP cable terminated in female dual XLR3 (not the standard male)?


----------



## paradoxper

@Sajid Amit here are all the o-rings you could ever want. 
https://www.theoringstore.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=175
Ships worldwide.

You should also look at picking up a kit of the urethane as they have a stronger elastic rating and therefore will last longer than Buna (industrial standard.)


----------



## SteveM324

paradoxper said:


> @Sajid Amit here are all the o-rings you could ever want.
> https://www.theoringstore.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=175
> Ships worldwide.
> 
> You should also look at picking up a kit of the urethane as they have a stronger elastic rating and therefore will last longer than Buna (industrial standard.)


Do you know what o-ring size corresponds to the stock o-ring?  Have you tried the urethane o-rings?  Is it easy to replace?  I have the latest headband.  Thanks!


----------



## paradoxper

SteveM324 said:


> Do you know what o-ring size corresponds to the stock o-ring?  Have you tried the urethane o-rings?  Is it easy to replace?  I have the latest headband.  Thanks!


IIRC 3mm CS x 24mm ID. It was desired for some to raise/lower cup height / fitment for comfort. I have no issues.
The urethane was just an option as a few members aren't having the best luck with longevity using what I surmise is stock Buna-N which is just nitrile.

Here's a video from Joe demonstrating headband replacement.


----------



## SteveM324

paradoxper said:


> IIRC 3mm CS x 24mm ID. It was desired for some to raise/lower cup height / fitment for comfort. I have no issues.
> The urethane was just an option as a few members aren't having the best luck with longevity using what I surmise is stock Buna-N which is just nitrile.
> 
> Here's a video from Joe demonstrating headband replacement.



Thanks for the info.  The urethane is probably a good idea since it provides better elasticity.


----------



## jlbrach

paradoxper said:


> @Sajid Amit here are all the o-rings you could ever want.
> https://www.theoringstore.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=175
> Ships worldwide.
> 
> You should also look at picking up a kit of the urethane as they have a stronger elastic rating and therefore will last longer than Buna (industrial standard.)


I got myself a box of O rings with pretty much every possible size and about as many as I could ever need on amazon for a very reasonable price...easy to use and replace the too tight ring that came with the new headband


----------



## SteveM324

jlbrach said:


> I got myself a box of O rings with pretty much every possible size and about as many as I could ever need on amazon for a very reasonable price...easy to use and replace the too tight ring that came with the new headband


I just talked to Joe, the stock size #213.  The next larger size is #214.  I ordered 100 of each on Amazon for $17.60.  If you want just the stock size it's $8.80 for 100 pieces.  Kits can be cheaper but I don't need the other sizes.


----------



## DJJEZ (Mar 5, 2021)

Any advice on how many hours the 1266tc needs running in?

@Abyss Headphones


----------



## ra990

DJJEZ said:


> Any advice on how many hours the 1266tc needs running in?


100 to 200 should be good


----------



## SteveM324

DJJEZ said:


> Any advice on how many hours the 1266tc needs running in?


I burn-in all of my headphones for 200hrs minimum.


----------



## Bonddam

Guys I have amazing news I’m not sitting straight. Now I can sit off center. It’s been great these last couple days. Sometimes I just move my eye balls.


----------



## Bonddam

I don’t burn in headphones. I have this fear they will blow up when I’m not around.

The KR 2A3 sound really good fresh out of the box. I’m waiting for my eml 300b 2.5 mesh still. I have the PSvane acme 2A3 and those are good tubes for 600 a pair. So I’ll be using the KR to run it through the 6 month warranty. Then switch out to 300b see which is better. The KR 2A3 are puny in size the acme is big the EML’s are huge.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

DJJEZ said:


> Any advice on how many hours the 1266tc needs running in?



Since the 1266 cost is mostly labor, I wouldn't expect it needs any burn-in time at all. I don't know the exact number Eric stated but it was a lot for manufacturing and from a device this expensive I'd expect nominal performance OOB. I'm getting mine soon and I'll report back


----------



## 340519

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Since the 1266 cost is mostly labor, I wouldn't expect it needs any burn-in time at all. I don't know the exact number Eric stated but it was a lot for manufacturing and from a device this expensive I'd expect nominal performance OOB. I'm getting mine soon and I'll report back


Yeah they sound good right out of the box.


----------



## DJJEZ (Mar 5, 2021)

Found a video on the abyss channel for anyone interested.

They burn them in for roughly 30 hours before being shipped


----------



## DuncanDirkDick




----------



## simorag (Mar 6, 2021)

AB-1266 TC eclectic playlist of the day 

Idles - Ultra Mono


----------



## SteveM324

DJJEZ said:


> Found a video on the abyss channel for anyone interested.
> 
> They burn them in for roughly 30 hours before being shipped



That burn-in video aligns exactly with my experience of about 30 years of purchasing brand new high end headphones.  I enjoy all of my headphone and cable purchases right out of the box but when I'm not listening to them, I stream music 24/7 for about 200 hours to burn them in with my SS amp.  I find in general that planars change less in SQ than dynamics during the burn-in process.  As the video pointed out, cables burn-in too, so with a new headphone and new cable they both will change for the first few hundred hours.


----------



## Litlgi74

simorag said:


> AB-1266 TC eclectic playlist of the day
> 
> Idles - Ultra Mono


Love when you post these... 

Gogo Penguin.👍


----------



## DJJEZ (Mar 7, 2021)

anyone here using pure silver cables with their 1266's? Is it worth it?

Looking for advice on what the absolute best cable for these headphones is for $2500 and under.

Thanks


----------



## rayofsi

DJJEZ said:


> anyone here using pure silver cables with their 1266's? Is it worth it?
> 
> Looking for advice on what the absolute best cable for these headphones is for $2500 and under.
> 
> Thanks


Had a cable from eBay. 16 core pure silver. Sounded like a improvement over stock cable. Not much better . Under $300. 

Using a Norne audio vykari silver/copper hybrid now. Big upgrade, has a lot of pure silver


----------



## DJJEZ

rayofsi said:


> Had a cable from eBay. 16 core pure silver. Sounded like a improvement over stock cable. Not much better . Under $300.
> 
> Using a Norne audio vykari silver/copper hybrid now. Big upgrade, has a lot of pure silver



Thanks for the reply. You got a pic of the Norne cable?


----------



## JLoud

I'm using Norne Silvergarde and really like it. Around $750 for a 6ft. Better balanced than stock. At the price you mentioned I would consider the Abyss Super Conductor.


----------



## JLoud




----------



## Slim1970

DJJEZ said:


> anyone here using pure silver cables with their 1266's? Is it worth it?
> 
> Looking for advice on what the absolute best cable for these headphones is for $2500 and under.
> 
> Thanks


I’m using an all silver DHC Complement4 and it’s outstanding with my TC’s. I don’t think it’s offered in silver anymore since it was pulling sales away from the Prion4. I using the Prion 4 on my Susvara’s, but they sound nearly identical.


----------



## paradoxper

DJJEZ said:


> anyone here using pure silver cables with their 1266's? Is it worth it?
> 
> Looking for advice on what the absolute best cable for these headphones is for $2500 and under.
> 
> Thanks


Why not upgrade your network first and leave the cables for last?


----------



## Shahrose

DJJEZ said:


> anyone here using pure silver cables with their 1266's? Is it worth it?
> 
> Looking for advice on what the absolute best cable for these headphones is for $2500 and under.
> 
> Thanks



I use a Moon Audio Silver Dragon. Definitely better than stock. 

Also agree with @paradoxper about money being better spent on the major components, as usual.


----------



## qboogie

JLoud said:


> I'm using Norne Silvergarde and really like it. Around $750 for a 6ft. Better balanced than stock. At the price you mentioned I would consider the Abyss Super Conductor.


Somewhere in this thread, Joe S. recommended staying away from silver cables due to more prominent upper treble spikes. Personally Im not too bothered by this problem, using the Norne silvergarde.


----------



## Shahrose

qboogie said:


> Somewhere in this thread, Joe S. recommended staying away from silver cables due to more prominent upper treble spikes. Personally Im not too bothered by this problem, using the Norne silvergarde.



This is interesting because I got fewer treble spikes with silver compared to stock.


----------



## DJJEZ

qboogie said:


> Somewhere in this thread, Joe S. recommended staying away from silver cables due to more prominent upper treble spikes. Personally Im not too bothered by this problem, using the Norne silvergarde.


Prefer it over the super conductor cable?


----------



## tkam

I'm using the norne silvergarde s4 as well and I think it's a very nice cable.  It looks nice and is far more flexible than the stock cable.  I do think it sounds better as well - but again, it's just a cable we're not talking huge differences in sound here.  

Might be in the minority here but frankly I think it's nuts to spend $2k+ on cables like the SC and others.  Can put that kind of money into far better things, other headphones, more music, etc.


----------



## TDinCali

tkam said:


> I'm using the norne silvergarde s4 as well and I think it's a very nice cable.  It looks nice and is far more flexible than the stock cable.  I do think it sounds better as well - but again, it's just a cable we're not talking huge differences in sound here.
> 
> Might be in the minority here but frankly I think it's nuts to spend $2k+ on cables like the SC and others.  Can put that kind of money into far better things, other headphones, more music, etc.


I thought it was nuts to spend $5K on a pair of headphones, let alone buy multiple headphones over $4K yet here we are...


----------



## cjarrett

All aboard the crazy train, next stop higher fidelity.


----------



## cjarrett

So I bought a wa33 because i hate myself


----------



## joseph69

cjarrett said:


> So I bought a wa33 because i hate myself


When it arrives you're going to love yourself.


----------



## cjarrett (Mar 9, 2021)

My brother is also gonna love me because he’s gonna get some massive upgrades...


----------



## DJJEZ

cjarrett said:


> So I bought a wa33 because i hate myself


Awesome amp.This is on my Wants list as well, hopefully by the end of the year


----------



## Gavin C4

Hello , I would like to ask how do I dofferencate the difference between 1266 Phi and 1266 TC version by only looking at the headphone ? As I saw a used pair. Thanks


----------



## Litlgi74 (Mar 9, 2021)

Gavin C4 said:


> Hello , I would like to ask how do I dofferencate the difference between 1266 Phi and 1266 TC version by only looking at the headphone ? As I saw a used pair. Thanks


When you take the ear cup off of the TCs...  you will see the words Total Consciousness on the metal driver face.


----------



## qboogie

DJJEZ said:


> Prefer it over the super conductor cable?


For me the SC has more forward, enchanting and liquid mids/vocals, but the Norne silvergarde have bigger, more impactful bass and more present treble.


----------



## qboogie

Just curious if anyone has ever paired the superconductor HP cable to any other headphones (using the appropriate mini XLR3 adapters).

I imagine it would be pretty incredible with Audeze cans given their veiled, recessed mids. LCD-X in particular. I remember the LCD-3F as having more liquid and intimate vocals, but transients and separation not as good. Have never heard the LCD-4 outside of CanJam


----------



## JLoud

The LCD4 doesn’t have veiled or recessed mids. Just the opposite. The mid range is the highlight of the LCD4. My go to for vocals or classic rock.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

qboogie said:


> Just curious if anyone has ever paired the superconductor HP cable to any other headphones (using the appropriate mini XLR3 adapters).
> 
> I imagine it would be pretty incredible with Audeze cans given their veiled, recessed mids. LCD-X in particular. I remember the LCD-3F as having more liquid and intimate vocals, but transients and separation not as good. Have never heard the LCD-4 outside of CanJam



After I tried the latest batch of LCD-X, seems veiled on midrange is no longer an issue. Of course, character wise could be an issue if you expect something colder like Focal Clear. However, the newer batch is totally better in SQ compare to old LCD-X I had (at 2013).


----------



## Bonddam

New lcd X is really good the 6 instead of 8 fazzors did something.


----------



## DJJEZ (Mar 9, 2021)

Just bought a 1266TC, I've been drooling over these headphones for years so it feels so good to finally pull the trigger.  Been told the wait is 4 weeks roughly. I'm Upgrading from a hifiman arya


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 9, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> Just bought a 1266TC, I've been drooling over these headphones for years so it feels so good to finally pull the trigger.  Been told the wait is 4 weeks roughly. I'm Upgrading from a hifiman arya


Wow! Congrats on finally pulling the trigger!!! Today is a great day! Hope you love em'!


----------



## OceanRanger

littlej0e said:


> Wow! Congrats on finally pulling the trigger!!! Today is a great day! Hope you love em'!


That is awesome @littlej0e !! I have both the 1266 TCs and the Aryas. I very much enjoy having both sets. The TCs are a fantastic "lean forward" listening experience. That said, I still spend about 1/3 of my time with the Aryas. They are more of a "lean back" experience for me.


----------



## typalder

Came from the Arya too


----------



## qboogie

Bonddam said:


> New lcd X is really good the 6 instead of 8 fazzors did something.





TheMiddleSky said:


> After I tried the latest batch of LCD-X, seems veiled on midrange is no longer an issue. Of course, character wise could be an issue if you expect something colder like Focal Clear. However, the newer batch is totally better in SQ compare to old LCD-X I had (at 2013).


I had no idea they revised the LCD-X. Up until I heard the Verite they were my favorite pair, and now it's the TC.

I was in the airport passing through TSA. My 1266 TC were in my backpack, and because they look unusual, they were taken out and examined. The agent seemed really puzzled. I asked them to please be careful because they are very expensive. He asked how much they cost and after I told him, he said Daaaaaamn and showed it to the other agents. 

One of them asked "These bluetooth?" since the cables were disconnected. I told them the Chord TT2 inside the other bag compartment  drives the cans. After they learned how much THAT thing costs, they couldn't wrap their heads around it. I felt bad because the luggage inspection basically grinded to a halt.


----------



## paradoxper

qboogie said:


> I had no idea they revised the LCD-X. Up until I heard the Verite they were my favorite pair, and now it's the TC.
> 
> I was in the airport passing through TSA. My 1266 TC were in my backpack, and because they look unusual, they were taken out and examined. The agent seemed really puzzled. I asked them to please be careful because they are very expensive. He asked how much they cost and after I told him, he said Daaaaaamn and showed it to the other agents.
> 
> One of them asked "These bluetooth?" since the cables were disconnected. I told them the Chord TT2 inside the other bag compartment  drives the cans. After they learned how much THAT thing costs, they couldn't wrap their heads around it. I felt bad because the luggage inspection basically grinded to a halt.


How our true peculiarities are exposed to the general public.


----------



## qboogie

I've heard funny stories about the Hugo 2 being easily mistaken for a bomb


----------



## jlbrach

qboogie said:


> I had no idea they revised the LCD-X. Up until I heard the Verite they were my favorite pair, and now it's the TC.
> 
> I was in the airport passing through TSA. My 1266 TC were in my backpack, and because they look unusual, they were taken out and examined. The agent seemed really puzzled. I asked them to please be careful because they are very expensive. He asked how much they cost and after I told him, he said Daaaaaamn and showed it to the other agents.
> 
> One of them asked "These bluetooth?" since the cables were disconnected. I told them the Chord TT2 inside the other bag compartment  drives the cans. After they learned how much THAT thing costs, they couldn't wrap their heads around it. I felt bad because the luggage inspection basically grinded to a halt.


I had a similar situation when I went through customs with my utopia's that I used to own...the customs agent wanted to take them apart and I begged them to please be careful...they had zero idea how much they cost


----------



## Sajid Amit

qboogie said:


> I had no idea they revised the LCD-X. Up until I heard the Verite they were my favorite pair, and now it's the TC.
> 
> I was in the airport passing through TSA. My 1266 TC were in my backpack, and because they look unusual, they were taken out and examined. The agent seemed really puzzled. I asked them to please be careful because they are very expensive. He asked how much they cost and after I told him, he said Daaaaaamn and showed it to the other agents.
> 
> One of them asked "These bluetooth?" since the cables were disconnected. I told them the Chord TT2 inside the other bag compartment  drives the cans. After they learned how much THAT thing costs, they couldn't wrap their heads around it. I felt bad because the luggage inspection basically grinded to a halt.


Great story! Lol.


----------



## jlbrach

for those who love to talk about and debate amps, I must say the bakoon 13r is stunning with the TC's...huge soundstage...incredible detail, grunt and of course bass....really really good...I love formula s/powerman with them but damn the bakoon is good and the footprint sooo small with a nice remote...for those interested


----------



## paradoxper (Mar 10, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> for those who love to talk about and debate amps, I must say the bakoon 13r is stunning with the TC's...huge soundstage...incredible detail, grunt and of course bass....really really good...I love formula s/powerman with them but damn the bakoon is good and the footprint sooo small with a nice remote...for those interested


MEMEME!

13R is quite nice for its size and package contents, however, the top end is more rolled compared to a slew of amplifiers out there and the bass doesn't hit or extend as hard as you would expect. We should put a little focused criticism on this area as a current amplifier should provide a little more oomph.

Its MSRP is also pretty silly considering how many far better speaker amplifiers perform in that price bracket.
It's a little salty what a premium you pay for the convenience of a small package with good performance.

Shrugs.


----------



## ra990

jlbrach said:


> for those who love to talk about and debate amps, I must say the bakoon 13r is stunning with the TC's...huge soundstage...incredible detail, grunt and of course bass....really really good...I love formula s/powerman with them but damn the bakoon is good and the footprint sooo small with a nice remote...for those interested


Obvious follow up jl...which one would you pick for your Abyss and Susvara, if you could only keep one - going on sound alone?


----------



## jlbrach

paradoxper said:


> MEMEME!
> 
> 13R is quite nice for its size and package contents, however, the top end is more rolled compared to a slew of amplifiers out there and the bass doesn't hit or extend as hard as you would expect. We should put a little focused criticism on this area as a current amplifier should provide a little more oomph.
> 
> ...


I couldnt disagree more


----------



## Shahrose

jlbrach said:


> I couldnt disagree more



Curious, which speaker amps did you compare the Bakoon to?


----------



## cjarrett

I misread backpack for back pocket and was confused for a bit


----------



## jlbrach

Shahrose said:


> Curious, which speaker amps did you compare the Bakoon to?


I own the formula s/powerman which is fantastic with the TC..I have listened to almost all of the wells amps which are quite powerful and excellent extensively as I have a buddy who has gone through all the wells amps, I listened to the woo wa33...I owned the violectric 281, the ifi ican...I have listened numerous other amps at canjam over the years and to my ears the bakoon is as good as or better than anything I have heard...it is all subjective of course and depends on the associated equipment ,the kind of music etc...that said the bakoon is a damn good amp and one can read several others who feel the same...I am not attempting to convince anyone I am offering an opinion as I love to read others opinions and get advice from others....I have zero issue with people disagreeing with my take on things...I only take issue when people are either nasty or condescending....enjoy the music


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> I couldnt disagree more


As we seem to do often.

If you enjoy the 13R, so much the better.


----------



## OceanRanger

jlbrach said:


> I own the formula s/powerman which is fantastic with the TC..I have listened to almost all of the wells amps which are quite powerful and excellent extensively as I have a buddy who has gone through all the wells amps, I listened to the woo wa33...I owned the violectric 281, the ifi ican...I have listened numerous other amps at canjam over the years and to my ears the bakoon is as good as or better than anything I have heard...it is all subjective of course and depends on the associated equipment ,the kind of music etc...that said the bakoon is a damn good amp and one can read several others who feel the same...I am not attempting to convince anyone I am offering an opinion as I love to read others opinions and get advice from others....I have zero issue with people disagreeing with my take on things...I only take issue when people are either nasty or condescending....enjoy the music


Well put @jlbrach. This hobby is subjective by nature. Listen different things when the opportunity arises, figure out what you enjoy and share your thoughts with encouraging words. This is what I enjoy about these threads. Thank you for sharing.


----------



## paradoxper

OceanRanger said:


> Well put @jlbrach. This hobby is subjective by nature. Listen different things when the opportunity arises, figure out what you enjoy and share your thoughts with encouraging words. This is what I enjoy about these threads. Thank you for sharing.


Jlbrach has never said a bad word about a single product. Super encouraging. No place for real discussion or criticism.

One big circle-jerk.

This is the way.

Head-Fi


----------



## Shahrose

As someone else pointed out earlier, it's the critical reviews that are often most helpful (to me anyways).


----------



## makan

Well. It has happened. The o ring broke on the original headband. Here is my hack which seems to be working well with my wife’s hair elastic. Also, I have had a add on cushion on the headband for a while now which is thin enough to maintain the height I need but provide a little more padding.


----------



## jlbrach

paradoxper said:


> Jlbrach has never said a bad word about a single product. Super encouraging. No place for real discussion or criticism.
> 
> One big circle-jerk.
> 
> ...


interestingly, I have had put forth many criticisms of gear I didnt think up to par and of course got criticized by those who owned and liked the gear...so bottom line is I am attacked for praising gear and attacked for criticizing it....ironically I have criticized one piece of equipment vs another that I own numerous times....most notably when speaking of the sr1a,susvara and TC all of which I own so obviously I have no rooting interest...that said I am done with this particular silly debate...one thing I will not do is bad mouth products as soon as I sell them or no longer own them....anyway back to listening to music and to the overwhelming number of positive discussions I have with so many nice people here


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> interestingly, I have had put forth many criticisms of gear I didnt think up to par and of course got criticized by those who owned and liked the gear...so bottom line is I am attacked for praising gear and attacked for criticizing it....ironically I have criticized one piece of equipment vs another that I own numerous times....most notably when speaking of the sr1a,susvara and TC all of which I own so obviously I have no rooting interest...that said I am done with this particular silly debate...one thing I will not do is bad mouth products as soon as I sell them or no longer own them....anyway back to listening to music and to the overwhelming number of positive discussions I have with so many nice people here


We'll continue on in the name of humanitarianism.


----------



## Stereolab42 (Mar 12, 2021)

Folks, I've decided I need a TOTL solid-state amp to complement my WA-5. Tubes are great but warm-ass weather is coming up here in less than two months and the WA-5 puts out like 250 watts of heat continuously and I'd rather not have it fighting with my A/C anymore. Is there an amp which satisfies the following:

1. Enough power to humiliate an Abyss 1.0.
2. EASILY selectable gain control, since I plan on using some very sensitive closed headphones on the same amp on a daily basis along with the Abyss.
3. Runs ICE COLD. No class A, not even slightly biased. I don't care if that makes it sound 0.000001% worse than class A.

The Raggy easily satisfies 1 or 2 but it still has a class A bias and pumps out decent amounts of heat according to my research. Any other choices? Again, I don't want an amp that I have to turn over or hunt for a jumper to change gains, that's non-negotiable. Gain control HAS to be a front-plate switch or button (like with the WA-5 or Raggy).

*EDIT: Decided on the Benchmark HPA4 after being schooled in the ways of THX AAA. Since it will take a few weeks, I also ordered a much cheaper Monolith THX from Amazon for delivery this weekend to get a taste of the technology.*


----------



## Gavin C4 (Mar 13, 2021)

After trying a few setups it seems that getting a great tube amp for the 1266 TC is the way to go as it adds slightly little warmth to the entire signature and ended up with a Viva 845 at the top of the list. 

For those who have both solid-state and Tube amps, please share some more thoughts on the pairing. Do you like to pair the 1266 TC with slightly-warm up chain gear?'


----------



## mt-hifidelity

Anyone have suggestions on a portable/transportable battery-driven amp that can power the 1266 TC?    I've heard about the Mass Kobo, Cayin C9, and Phantasy II but am not sure they have enough power.  I used to own the Broadway balanced amp which was very good but I'd like something slightly easier to tote around...if such an amp exists. 

Forgive me as I'm still going through the history on this thread to find previous comments on the topic...


----------



## jlbrach

the topping a90 is easily transportable certainly if you can transport the 1266 tc and while it isnt top of the line it certainly can adequately drive the 1266


----------



## Litlgi74

WA11 Topaz


----------



## jlbrach

the new ifi diablo will also drive them


----------



## Gadget67

Just placed an order for the 1266; now I’ll have to read the whole thread so I don’t ask any stupid questions...


----------



## Gadget67

cjarrett said:


> My brother is also gonna love me because he’s gonna get some massive upgrades...


Will you adopt me?  I promise to be good and eat my vegetables...


----------



## DJJEZ

Gadget67 said:


> Just placed an order for the 1266; now I’ll have to read the whole thread so I don’t ask any stupid questions...



whats the wait time for you?


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> whats the wait time for you?


Apparently it’s going to be awhile, but I don’t have an estimate at this point.  Obviously Covid is really helping their business since many are still in at least semi lockdown and need to spend on expensive equipment for amusement...


----------



## DJJEZ

Gadget67 said:


> Apparently it’s going to be awhile, but I don’t have an estimate at this point.  Obviously Covid is really helping their business since many are still in at least semi lockdown and need to spend on expensive equipment for amusement...


I bought a pair last Friday and was quoted roughly 4 weeks wait


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> I bought a pair last Friday and was quoted roughly 4 weeks wait


I hope you are right, but I’d suggest twice that...


----------



## DJJEZ

Gadget67 said:


> I hope you are right, but I’d suggest twice that...


i know someone else in USA who just bought a pair and was told 6 weeks lol


----------



## 340519

Yeah mine took 2 months...


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> i know someone else in USA who just bought a pair and was told 6 weeks lol


Spring will likely cut down on the number of new orders but I sure the backlog is significant.  I’d say two months is the likely timeframe but obviously I’m just guessing.  If you ordered from an authorized dealer it could be faster.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

We've found that if you orient the 1266 so its facing side down, so the scanner can see through the drivers from the top down, they don't question it. In the other orientation as if they were laying on a desk, they can't see through all that metal so need to inspect.



qboogie said:


> I had no idea they revised the LCD-X. Up until I heard the Verite they were my favorite pair, and now it's the TC.
> 
> I was in the airport passing through TSA. My 1266 TC were in my backpack, and because they look unusual, they were taken out and examined. The agent seemed really puzzled. I asked them to please be careful because they are very expensive. He asked how much they cost and after I told him, he said Daaaaaamn and showed it to the other agents.
> 
> One of them asked "These bluetooth?" since the cables were disconnected. I told them the Chord TT2 inside the other bag compartment  drives the cans. After they learned how much THAT thing costs, they couldn't wrap their heads around it. I felt bad because the luggage inspection basically grinded to a halt.


----------



## ra990

I don't know who recommended these for the Abyss in this thread, but thank you! They are a perfect station to store the Abyss and so cheap. They just hang at the side of the desk.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PFV1NQX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## littlej0e

ra990 said:


> I don't know who recommended these for the Abyss in this thread, but thank you! They are a perfect station to store the Abyss and so cheap. They just hang at the side of the desk.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PFV1NQX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


You RULE! I had no idea these even existed. You simultaneously solved a current pain in my a$$ as well as a future one when my TC's finally get here.

Thank you very much...


----------



## jlbrach

yes, they are terrific and inexpensive space savers


----------



## ken6217

I did, but I saw someone else post them a while ago as well.


----------



## Gadget67

littlej0e said:


> You RULE! I had no idea these even existed. You simultaneously solved a current pain in my a$$ as well as a future one when my TC's finally get here.
> 
> Thank you very much...


Just ordered mine too; @ra990 also helped me with the decision to buy the Abyss as well.  I’m going to have to stop reading his posts; it’s getting expensive....


----------



## littlej0e

Gadget67 said:


> Just ordered mine too; @ra990 also helped me with the decision to buy the Abyss as well.  I’m going to have to stop reading his posts; it’s getting expensive....


Haha, I know exactly what you mean. I've spent an uncomfortable amount of money based on recommendations from various people on this forum in particular.


----------



## cjarrett

SteveM324 said:


> Just ordered mine too; @ra990 also helped me with the decision to buy the Abyss as well.  I’m going to have to stop reading his posts; it’s getting expensive....


Trust me, leave the thread while you still have things in your wallet


----------



## 340519

ra990 said:


> I don't know who recommended these for the Abyss in this thread, but thank you! They are a perfect station to store the Abyss and so cheap. They just hang at the side of the desk.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PFV1NQX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I use two of those as well for the abyss. Great idea whoever that was!


----------



## 340519

littlej0e said:


> Haha, I know exactly what you mean. I've spent an uncomfortable amount of money based on recommendations from various people on this forum in particular.


Yes, same here...


----------



## bpcans

Gadget67 said:


> Just ordered mine too; @ra990 also helped me with the decision to buy the Abyss as well.  I’m going to have to stop reading his posts; it’s getting expensive....


Gadget67, how long will you have to wait for your 1266 Phi TC’s, and what cables are you going to be using?


----------



## Gadget67

bpcans said:


> Gadget67, how long will you have to wait for your 1266 Phi TC’s, and what cables are you going to be using?


I’m guessing six weeks before I actually get them.  I have a Moon Silver Dragon and a ZMF 2k copper that I currently use with my Audeze LCD-X in addition to the Abyss stock cable so I assume they will work since the Abyss uses mini xlr connectors.  Looking forward to receiving the Abyss!


----------



## DJJEZ

Gadget67 said:


> I’m guessing six weeks before I actually get them.  I have a Moon Silver Dragon and a ZMF 2k copper that I currently use with my Audeze LCD-X in addition to the Abyss stock cable so I assume they will work since the Abyss uses mini xlr connectors.  Looking forward to receiving the Abyss!



Aren't the mini xlr's on the 1266tc 3 pin and most other headphones 4 pin mini xlr? I don't think they can be interchanged


----------



## bpcans

Gadget67 said:


> I’m guessing six weeks before I actually get them.  I have a Moon Silver Dragon and a ZMF 2k copper that I currently use with my Audeze LCD-X in addition to the Abyss stock cable so I assume they will work since the Abyss uses mini xlr connectors.  Looking forward to receiving the Abyss!


Gadget67, besides @ra990 pushing you over the edge, what made you want to add the AB Phi TC’s? Had you heard them and you were blown away, or was it the planar magnetic technical sound signature that drew you in? Hey man I’m trying hard not to get sucked in myself. 😃


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> Aren't the mini xlr's on the 1266tc 3 pin and most other headphones 4 pin mini xlr? I don't think they can be interchanged


Just looked.  Three pin for Abyss, mine are four pin—-oh well.  I’ll order converters so I can use what I have; clearly they want to sell their own cables.  Annoying, but all too typical to make them proprietary.


----------



## DJJEZ

bpcans said:


> Gadget67, besides @ra990 pushing you over the edge, what made you want to add the AB Phi TC’s? Had you heard them and you were blown away, or was it the planar magnetic technical sound signature that drew you in? *Hey man I’m trying hard not to get sucked in myself*. 😃


stop dragging it out and just buy a pair


----------



## Gadget67

bpcans said:


> Gadget67, besides @ra990 pushing you over the edge, what made you want to add the AB Phi TC’s? Had you heard them and you were blown away, or was it the planar magnetic technical sound signature that drew you in? Hey man I’m trying hard not to get sucked in myself. 😃


I was considering the Susvara, but after doing some research and reading reviews, these seemed the better option.  I own Audeze LCD-X headphones and first considered upgrading to the LCD-4 but then narrowed it down first to the Susvara and finally the Abyss.  This was a research and then take the leap purchase so no, I haven’t actually heard them!


----------



## littlej0e

Speaking of Susvaras, what would be the best compliment to the Phi TC's for non-bassy stuff like acoustic and classical? Susvara, Raal SR1A or something else like Utopias?


----------



## DJJEZ

littlej0e said:


> Speaking of Susvaras, what would be the best compliment to the Phi TC's for non-bassy stuff like acoustic and classical? Susvara, Raal SR1A or something else like Utopias?



if you have the money the susvara are excellent for acoustic, piano, jazz, classical etc


----------



## 340519

Gadget67 said:


> I was considering the Susvara, but after doing some research and reading reviews, these seemed the better option.  I own Audeze LCD-X headphones and first considered upgrading to the LCD-4 but then narrowed it down first to the Susvara and finally the Abyss.  This was a research and then take the leap purchase so no, I haven’t actually heard them!


I owned the lcd4 and the abyss are much better sounding in my opinion.


----------



## bpcans

DJJEZ said:


> stop dragging it out and just buy a pair


DJJEZ, I’m thinking that there’s gonna be a few lightly used pairs of 1266 Phi TC’s up for sale in about 8 weeks from now. Then I’ll swoop in and relieve a good head-fi member, at a more then fair level of compensation, of their offending headphones. 😃


----------



## qboogie

Just a friendly reminder for new Abyss owners to register for 3 year extended warranty within 90 days of receiving your cans. 

https://abyss-headphones.com/pages/warranty-registration


----------



## 340519

qboogie said:


> Just a friendly reminder for new Abyss owners to register for 3 year extended warranty within 90 days of receiving your cans.
> 
> https://abyss-headphones.com/pages/warranty-registration


Oops too late for me. Oh well.


----------



## qboogie

Gadget67 said:


> Just looked.  Three pin for Abyss, mine are four pin—-oh well.  I’ll order converters so I can use what I have; clearly they want to sell their own cables.  Annoying, but all too typical to make them proprietary.


Yes it's very annoying. A bunch of us get our hypershort adapters from affinityadapters on ebay. They assemble and ship from Singapore. Mine took a month to come during the winter holidays. Prices have been increasing


----------



## qboogie

Just a heads up if anyone is interested, I just listed my superconductor cable in the For Sale forum.


----------



## Gadget67

qboogie said:


> Yes it's very annoying. A bunch of us get our hypershort adapters from affinityadapters on ebay. They assemble and ship from Singapore. Mine took a month to come during the winter holidays. Prices have been increasing


I ordered from them yesterday after @DJJEZ pointed that out to me!  I’ve used them before as well.


----------



## Gadget67

bpcans said:


> DJJEZ, I’m thinking that there’s gonna be a few lightly used pairs of 1266 Phi TC’s up for sale in about 8 weeks from now. Then I’ll swoop in and relieve a good head-fi member, at a more then fair level of compensation, of their offending headphones. 😃


Believe me, if I don’t like them you will be the first to know!


----------



## paradoxper

littlej0e said:


> Speaking of Susvaras, what would be the best compliment to the Phi TC's for non-bassy stuff like acoustic and classical? Susvara, Raal SR1A or something else like Utopias?


Just as nothing compares to the TC for bass-centric material, nothing will do acoustic like the SR1a.


----------



## Frankie D

bpcans said:


> DJJEZ, I’m thinking that there’s gonna be a few lightly used pairs of 1266 Phi TC’s up for sale in about 8 weeks from now. Then I’ll swoop in and relieve a good head-fi member, at a more then fair level of compensation, of their offending headphones. 😃


Maybe I missed something earlier. Why would used 1266 Phi TC’s be coming for sale?  Tks.


----------



## ra990 (Mar 14, 2021)

I am a little embarrassed to admit that the Abyss 1266 TC evoked a strong emotional response from me last night that I haven't had since the last time I owned them. No other headphones I have used just get out of the way of the music, yet deliver such strong physical and emotional impact. Let's just say that I had a Linus moment. I could care less about measurements, this is what the hobby is about for me. Way to go Abyss!

This was the track https://tidal.com/browse/track/144562937


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 14, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> Just as nothing compares to the TC for bass-centric material, nothing will do acoustic like the SR1a.



Thanks. That's what I've been wondering. The Susvaras seem like excellent all-arounders sort of in between the TC and the SR1a, but the TC and SR1A seem to be better in their specific areas for specific purposes.

I'm starting to lean towards the SR1a to pair with the TC's for acoustic, classical, and gaming, but I obviously want to try them first. The real problem is I can't find a local dealer that has them on hand. I'm also going to audition the Susvaras again just to be sure.


----------



## paradoxper

littlej0e said:


> Thanks. That's what I've been wondering. The Susvaras seem like excellent all-arounders sort of in between the TC and the SR1a, but the TC and SR1A seem to better in their specific areas for specific purposes.
> 
> I'm starting to lean towards the SR1a to pair with the TC's for acoustic, classical, and gaming, but I obviously want to try them first. The real problem is I can't find a local dealer that has them on hand. I'm also going to audition the Susvaras again just to be sure.


The Susvara is a true middle-ground. No wow factor. If you liked the Susvara's favorable traits, you'd be better off pursuing an SR-009.


----------



## Gadget67

ra990 said:


> I am a little embarrassed to admit that the Abyss 1266 TC evoked a strong emotional response from me last night that I haven't had since the last time I owned them. No other headphones I have used just get out of the way of the music, yet deliver such strong physical and emotional impact. Let's just say that I had a Linus moment. I could care less about measurements, this is what the hobby is about for me. Way to go Abyss!
> 
> This was the track https://tidal.com/browse/track/144562937


With all due respect to those who rely heavily on measurements I would say this.  I understand and respect the measurement process but I’m inclined to rely heavily on what I hear. The translation of sound through the ear canal to our brain is far more complex than some graph that tells me what I should be hearing.  By extension each of us likely “hears” a bit differently so that’s what makes this hobby so interesting for me when discussions get in to what “sounds” better.  Otherwise I just rely on what @ra990 says...


----------



## bpcans (Mar 14, 2021)

Gadget67 said:


> Believe me, if I don’t like them you will be the first to know!


Gadget67, based upon the gear in your listening chain, I’m pretty certain that you’re going to love 💕 the way that the 1266 Phi TC’s sound. I think though that you’ll maybe become frustrated trying to make them fit on your head. 😃 Then in a moment of audiophile pique, you’ll decide to let them go to me at a horrendously reduced price. 😊


----------



## Gadget67

Frankie D said:


> Maybe I missed something earlier. Why would used 1266 Phi TC’s be coming for sale?  Tks.


If I’ve learned anything here, it’s that most (me included) continue to pursue our personal sound unicorn and rotate through the current best headphones and related equipment in that pursuit.  Thank god my significant other is so understanding, and, yes, she knows what these things cost!  Any used 1266 Phi TC’s that do come up for sale will be snapped up pretty quickly so he’s indicating his interest up front!


----------



## Gadget67

bpcans said:


> Gadget67, based upon the gear in your listening chain, I’m pretty certain that you’re going to love 💕 the way that the 1266 Phi TC’s sound. I think though that you’ll maybe become frustrated trying to make them fit on your head. 😃 Then in a moment of audiophile pique, you’ll decide to let them go to me at a horrendously reduced price. 😊


How long can you hold your breath?


----------



## littlej0e

paradoxper said:


> The Susvara is a true middle-ground. No wow factor. If you liked the Susvara's favorable traits, you'd be better off pursuing an SR-009.


Thanks for the recommendation. I'll likely try the SR-009s instead then. I demo'd the Susvaras against the TC's and it wasn't even close. TC's blew them away in most areas that were important to me. I'm starting to think it will be a similar situation with the SR1a's. I just want to try them before slapping down 4-7k on a pair of headphones...


----------



## paradoxper

littlej0e said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. I'll likely try the SR-009s instead then. I demo'd the Susvaras against the TC's and it wasn't even close. TC's blew them away in most areas that were important to me. I'm starting to think it will be a similar situation with the SR1a's. I just want to try them before slapping down 4-7k on a pair of headphones...


I am a TC shill, certainly. The SR1a can't be ****ed with -- except for that little place of bass.


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 14, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> I am a TC shill, certainly. The SR1a can't be ****ed with -- except for that little place of bass.


Haha, OK! Then I won't bother ****ing with them! Sounds like the perfect match to what I'm looking for...

Next question. Would you go with the HSA-1B or the Schiit Jotunheim R? Big cost delta between them, but I'm leaning towards the HSA-1b to contrast the WA33 EE and potentially drive the TCs as well. Also wondering if I could skip them both and buy an adapter for the WA33.


----------



## paradoxper

littlej0e said:


> Haha, OK! Then I won't even bother ****ing with them! Sounds like the perfect match to what I'm looking for...
> 
> Next question. Would you go with the HSA-1B or the Schiit Jotunheim R? Big cost delta between them, but I'm leaning towards the HSA-1b to contrast the WA33 EE and potentially drive the TCs as well.


You should really skip either if costs are of no consideration as you can outperform the HSA-1B which isn't actually that great with a superb power amp and the interface box. Better still build out an improved interface to blue-sky.

It doesn't matter if you pair the SR1a with something terrible like a WEE equivalent or throw $$$ monoblocks, the SR1a will out perform every headphone on the planet. It just gets better.


----------



## DJJEZ

bpcans said:


> DJJEZ, I’m thinking that there’s gonna be a few lightly used pairs of 1266 Phi TC’s up for sale in about 8 weeks from now. Then I’ll swoop in and relieve a good head-fi member, at a more then fair level of compensation, of their offending headphones. 😃


----------



## Frankie D

Gadget67 said:


> If I’ve learned anything here, it’s that most (me included) continue to pursue our personal sound unicorn and rotate through the current best headphones and related equipment in that pursuit.  Thank god my significant other is so understanding, and, yes, she knows what these things cost!  Any used 1266 Phi TC’s that do come up for sale will be snapped up pretty quickly so he’s indicating his interest up front!


I thought he might have been referring to a new model or such in the horizon.  Not folks simply moving on.


----------



## Gadget67

Frankie D said:


> I thought he might have been referring to a new model or such in the horizon.  Not folks simply moving on.


You’ll have to ask him.  I took it to mean someone who was moving on .


----------



## Stereolab42 (Mar 15, 2021)

Been out of loop on headphone news for a while, but I never expected some of the advances that have occurred recently. Specifically, THX AAA technology that delivers affordable head amps with video-game SNR and power numbers. I was like "THX, aren't those the Star Wars guys? What the hell are they doing in the headphone space?" But after learning about this and reading some reviews I put an order in for the Benchmark HPA4 that uses the top-of-the line THX 888 design (not sure if it's a licensed design or a full chipset from THX, but whatever). Since that will take a while, I noticed Amazon had the Monolith THX 887 amp for $400 for next-day delivery. I figured I'd get this to play around with and demote it to backup or office amp once the Benchmark came in.





Well, I've got to say, the video-game numbers are real. I've got the OG Abyss 1.0 with eye-watering power requirements, and on gain 3 this amp powers them to comfortable listening volume at just 25%. But this isn't the most impressive thing... there have always been amps that could power the OG Abyss, at varying price points. What was extremely rare was an amp with multiple gain choices that could power the Abyss AND the most sensitive "other" headphones with an equally black background. While I don't have any IEMs, I have some very sensitive full-size headphones, like the 106dB Stellias. Indeed, the background was as black as night, at any gain and volume setting, with no music playing in a quiet room. For $400, in a tiny case that runs ice-cold. This is insane. There is now ZERO reason to shy away from any headphones based on sensitivity unless you need it for mobile use as well.


----------



## 340519

Stereolab42 said:


> Been out of loop on headphone news for a while, but I never expected some of the advances that have occurred recently. Specifically, THX AAA technology that delivers affordable head amps with video-game SNR and power numbers. I was like "THX, aren't those the Star Wars guys? What the hell are they doing in the headphone space?" But after learning about this and reading some reviews I put an order in for the Benchmark HPA4 that uses the top-of-the line THX 888 design (not sure if it's a licensed design or a full chipset from THX, but whatever). Since that will take a while, I noticed Amazon had the Monolith THX 887 amp for $400 for next-day delivery. I figured I'd get this to play around with and demote it to backup or office amp once the Benchmark came in.
> 
> 
> Well, I've got to say, the video-game numbers are real. I've got the OG Abyss 1.0 with eye-watering power requirements, and on gain 3 this amp powers them to comfortable listening volume at just 25%. But this isn't the most impressive thing... there have always been amps that could power the OG Abyss, at varying price points. What was extremely rare was an amp with multiple gain choices that could power the Abyss AND the most sensitive "other" headphones with an equally black background. While I don't have any IEMs, I have some very sensitive full-size headphones, like the 106dB Stellias. Indeed, the background was as black as night, at any gain and volume setting, with no music playing in a quiet room. For $400, in a tiny case that runs ice-cold. This is insane. There is now ZERO reason to shy away from any headphones based on sensitivity unless you need it for mobile use as well.


I completely agree about thx. I have the smsl sp200 888 I use with the abyss and they sound spectacular.  And the price of the amp? $300 off Amazon. Nice.


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 15, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> You should really skip either if costs are of no consideration as you can outperform the HSA-1B which isn't actually that great with a superb power amp and the interface box. Better still build out an improved interface to blue-sky.
> 
> It doesn't matter if you pair the SR1a with something terrible like a WEE equivalent or throw $$$ monoblocks, the SR1a will out perform every headphone on the planet. It just gets better.



Unfortunately, cost is quickly becoming a concern based on my recent purchases

I'll probably stick with the HSA-1b for now, unless there is a better option in that price range that I'm not aware of. Maybe I could run it through WA33 EE somehow to squeeze better sound out that way? The chain would look something like SR1a > HP cable > HSA-1b > WA33 EE (preamp) > Holo May KTE > source server.


----------



## paradoxper (Mar 15, 2021)

littlej0e said:


> Unfortunately, cost is quickly becoming a concern based on my recent purchases
> 
> I'll probably stick with the HSA-1b for now, unless there is a better option in that price range that I'm not aware of. Maybe I could run it through WA33 EE somehow to squeeze better sound out that way? The chain would look something like SR1a > HP cable > HSA-1b > WA33 EE (preamp) > Holo May KTE > source server.


There aren't alternative commercial offerings yet. If you were open to DIY, you have a couple designs from Kevin Gilmore that cover the Jot R and HSA-1b space.
You wouldn't be able to use the WA33 in any case (of main drive) as it is not anywhere powerful enough.


----------



## Gadget67

littlej0e said:


> Unfortunately, cost is quickly becoming a concern based on my recent purchases


Amen, brother....


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 15, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> There aren't alternative commercial offerings yet. If you were open to DIY, you have a couple designs from Kevin Gilmore that cover the Jot R and HSA-1b space.
> You wouldn't be able to use the WA33 in any case (of main drive) as it is not anywhere powerful enough.


Hmm, sounds like I'm pretty much screwed with the WA33, but I wonder how well it would work as a preamp? I'll pair it with the HSA-1b for a while and see what happens (at least until I replenish my funds and start building out a 2 channel system, in which case I'll be sure to pick an amp(s) that will match well with the SR1a). Unfortunately, DIY isn't really in the cards for me at the moment, but I would certainly be open to a custom solution if there is someone in particular you recommend. That's what I'm doing with my server from Larry at Pareto Audio.

By the way, I'm just going to buy the SR1a blind. It seems like a pretty safe bet based on what I've seen, what I've researched, what I've been told, and what I'm after. Clearly there is reason most folks on this and other forums rave about it. It really seems to be in class of it's own. Something tells me I won't be disappointed...

Thanks for all your help and advice!



Gadget67 said:


> Amen, brother....


HA! I know you feel my pain... Perhaps we should all join a zoom call once a week AA support group style to morn the deaths of our wallets and children's college funds?


----------



## Ciggavelli

littlej0e said:


> Unfortunately, cost is quickly becoming a concern based on my recent purchases
> 
> I'll probably stick with the HSA-1b for now, unless there is a better option in that price range that I'm not aware of. Maybe I could run it through WA33 EE somehow to squeeze better sound out that way? The chain would look something like SR1a > HP cable > HSA-1b > WA33 EE (preamp) > Holo May KTE > source server.


I use my WA33 EE JPS as a preamp to my HSA-1b. It sounds better in my opinion. Tubes help with warmth and take some of the “sharpness” off of the SR1as (in a good way).  

When I used the JotR, the WA33 preamp also helped. The WA33 EE JPS is a pretty good pre-amp, actually. Not having a remote is a downside, of course.


----------



## paradoxper

littlej0e said:


> Hmm, sounds like I'm pretty much screwed with the WA33, but I wonder how well it would work as a preamp? I'll pair it with the HSA-1b for a while and see what happens (at least until I replenish my funds and start building out a 2 channel system, in which case I'll be sure to pick an amp(s) that will match well with the SR1a). Unfortunately, DIY isn't really in the cards for me at the moment, but I would certainly be open to a custom solution if there is someone in particular you recommend. That's what I'm doing with my server from Larry at Pareto Audio.
> 
> By the way, I'm just going to buy the SR1a blind. It seems like a pretty safe bet based on what I've seen, what I've researched, what I've been told, and what I'm after. Clearly there is reason most folks on this and other forums rave about it. It really seems to be in class of it's own. Something tells me I won't be disappointed...
> 
> ...


The WA33 is likely to add some degree of flavor. I might actually opt for the Jot R first in that case. As it's cheaper and I'd presume that pairing might be preferred to just the HSA-1b. You can check out the RAAL/opamp, uberamp varieties. Plenty of very talented community members elsewhere. 

I do think the SR1a is in a class of its own but it is also simply not a complete headphone. Ah, the caveats. 

Look forward to see your progression.


----------



## DJJEZ (Mar 15, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> I use my WA33 EE JPS as a preamp to my HSA-1b. It sounds better in my opinion. Tubes help with warmth and take some of the “sharpness” off of the SR1as (in a good way).
> 
> When I used the JotR, the WA33 preamp also helped. The WA33 EE JPS is a pretty good pre-amp, actually. Not having a remote is a downside, of course.


is there any way to get around the WA33 without a remote. i want one but its a pretty big deal for me not being able to control the volume without a remote


----------



## Ciggavelli (Mar 15, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> Anyone tried a topping A90 with 1266tc? Thinking of grabbing one for my pc setup as I want to game with the abyss as well
> 
> is there any way to get around the WA33 without a remote. i want one but its a pretty big deal for me not being able to control the volume without a remote


I normally have my WA33 within arm’s reach with my setup, but if I use my extension cable (Corpse Cable with Cardas components...pretty good for the price) and move to my other work desk, not having a controller is a mildly annoying. I think the WA33 is worth it though.

There are 2 workarounds, that I haven’t tried, but should work in theory.

1) use your dac in preamp mode and control the volume that way (using the Dac’s remote).

2) If you’re technically savvy, you could build some sort of device the turns the volume knob through a remote. I’m thinking basically some arms clamped to the volume knob that could be controlled by some device.


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> I use my WA33 EE JPS as a preamp to my HSA-1b. It sounds better in my opinion. Tubes help with warmth and take some of the “sharpness” off of the SR1as (in a good way).
> 
> When I used the JotR, the WA33 preamp also helped. The WA33 EE JPS is a pretty good pre-amp, actually. Not having a remote is a downside, of course.


The WA33 EE JPS is a pricey pre-amp, I am sure it is a good one though


----------



## jlbrach

I think the hsa-1b is a far more refined experience than the jotr which I also like quite a bit, it also does a nice job driving planars which makes the cost a bit more managable...even if you have an amp you already like the hsa-1b acts as a nice backup...personally I think the bass discussions about the sr1a are a bit overblown but that is a totally subjective thing...what the sr1a does well it does better than anything else IMHO


----------



## Ciggavelli

jlbrach said:


> The WA33 EE JPS is a pricey pre-amp, I am sure it is a good one though


Definitely. In the WA33 thread Woo Audio was saying some people only use the WA33 as a preamp. For me though, I bought the WA33 EE JPS to drive my headphones. The pre-amp option is a bonus. It’s nice to have, but I could take it or leave it. The headphone amp is the reason to buy the WA33, in my opinion.


----------



## DJJEZ (Mar 15, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> I normally have my WA33 within arm’s reach with my setup, but if I use my extension cable (Corpse Cable with Cardas components...pretty good for the price) and move to my other work desk, not having a controller is a mildly annoying. I think the WA33 is worth it though.
> 
> There are 2 workarounds, that I haven’t tried, but should work in theory.
> 
> ...



thanks for the reply. my 2 channel setup/home cinema/ headphone setup are all together so i have like a 4m distance between my setup and couch so cant use the WA33 volume dial lol i guess i could use TT2 volume dial with the remote control


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> thanks for the reply. my 2 channel setup/home cinema/ headphone setup are all together so i have like a 4m distance between my setup and couch so cant use the WA33 volume dial lol i guess i could use TT2 volume dial


Well, you COULD train that sleeping dog to do it...😀


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 15, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> I use my WA33 EE JPS as a preamp to my HSA-1b. It sounds better in my opinion. Tubes help with warmth and take some of the “sharpness” off of the SR1as (in a good way).
> 
> When I used the JotR, the WA33 preamp also helped. The WA33 EE JPS is a pretty good pre-amp, actually. Not having a remote is a downside, of course.


Thank you, yet again, and always Cigg

I'm going with the HSA-1b, mostly because it can seemingly drive the SR1a's a little harder (apparently this is key with the SR1a's in particular) along with the added port utility for my particular use case. I just ordered another set of XLR interconnects to use the WA33 EE JPS as a preamp as you originally recommended.

Lastly, why would you need a remote for the WA33? Should be able to do volume control at the streamer/server, DAC, or directly from the Roon app, correct?



paradoxper said:


> The WA33 is likely to add some degree of flavor. I might actually opt for the Jot R first in that case. As it's cheaper and I'd presume that pairing might be preferred to just the HSA-1b. You can check out the RAAL/opamp, uberamp varieties. Plenty of very talented community members elsewhere.
> 
> I do think the SR1a is in a class of its own but it is also simply not a complete headphone. Ah, the caveats.
> 
> Look forward to see your progression.


Thanks! Seems like using the WA33 as a preamp for the HSA-1b might actually be a good combo based on feedback I received from Ciggavelli and a few others. I'm going to go with the HSA-1b for the reasons listed above, but it will also be nice to have a good quality and versatile SS amp standing by for general contrast and for when the WA33 inevitably blows a tube.

Caveats indeed. I learned early on there is no such thing as the perfect set of cans and the folks here reinforced that repeatedly...but a guy can still dream! TCs and SR1a do seem like an ideal pairing for my use cases and musical tastes though. The Susvaras were good, but they just didn't "move me" the way the TCs did and the way I suspect the SR1a's will. Subjective quibbles I'm sure.

I'll be sure to post some feedback along with a complete build list as soon as I receive everything and get it up and running. It has quickly grown into a stupidly expensive, divorce-capable monster, I assure you Buy once, cry once I suppose...


----------



## number1sixerfan

littlej0e said:


> Thank you, yet again, and always Cigg
> 
> I'm going with the HSA-1b, mostly because it can seemingly drive the SR1a's a little harder (apparently this is key with the SR1a's in particular) along with the added port utility for my particular use case. I just ordered another set of XLR interconnects to use the WA33 EE JPS as a preamp as you originally recommended.
> 
> ...



Will be great to hear your impressions. I have the SR1a on the way and plan on using the WA33 with the Jot R. Also alongside the TCs. Eventually I'll need to decide if I should get a beefier amp for them.


----------



## paradoxper

littlej0e said:


> Thank you, yet again, and always Cigg
> 
> I'm going with the HSA-1b, mostly because it can seemingly drive the SR1a's a little harder (apparently this is key with the SR1a's in particular) along with the added port utility for my particular use case. I just ordered another set of XLR interconnects to use the WA33 EE JPS as a preamp as you originally recommended.
> 
> ...


Supposedly, purportedly buy once; buy twice, buy thrice...cry forever.


----------



## Gadget67

ra990 said:


> I don't know who recommended these for the Abyss in this thread, but thank you! They are a perfect station to store the Abyss and so cheap. They just hang at the side of the desk.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PFV1NQX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I just received two of these hangers in anticipation of receiving the headphones (weeks away unfortunately).  I put one up and have my Utopia there just to see how it will work out.  I looked at the headphone stand that Abyss sells and nice as it is I think $395 plus tax and shipping is a bit steep.  I think I like these little hangers very much!


----------



## jlbrach

the hangers most definitely do the job well for a pittance relative to the stand


----------



## Stereolab42

Good god. I don't know why I waited so long to order the updated Abyss headphone strap. My original strap long since had its rubber rings stretched to heck and since then I'd been jury-rigging stuff to keep my head from hurting, with limited success. This new strap has tons of padding plus you can unscrew the ends to replace the rubber rings (they are just automotive-grade O-rings, you can order a pile from Amazon in different sizes for pennies).


----------



## BrowChan

Can't go wrong with using them on floating shelves either. 


Also, I got too tempted and upgraded my HSA-1a to HSA-1b. To my tastes, it felt weirdly bright at first, but tamed down significantly later. Not sure what happened. That aside, the bass and soundstage increased. It is also slightly more detailed than the former. Really enjoying this!
The only weak link in my chain now is my DAC. Deciding between RME ADI-2 or CHORD Qutest (or Hugo 2). Wonder what I should do given my bass and soundstage fetishes.


----------



## ajaipuriyar

BrowChan said:


> The only weak link in my chain now is my DAC.


Once you upgrade your DAC, you will automatically find a new weak link and it will be your next upgrade project.

Story of our lives  😀


----------



## BrowChan (Mar 17, 2021)

ajaipuriyar said:


> Once you upgrade your DAC, you will automatically find a new weak link and it will be your next upgrade project.
> 
> Story of our lives  😀


Lol, you’re right. I thought slightly ahead and found I’d lust for another headphone. But I’ll save those acquisitions for once I settle down.

Besides....I started off with HD 58X, and now I’m here. Never in my life did I think I’d spend this much on a HP. TC was a dream to me last year or so, but has been a reality pretty soon after.


----------



## Litlgi74

BrowChan said:


> Can't go wrong with using them on floating shelves either.
> 
> 
> Also, I got too tempted and upgraded my HSA-1a to HSA-1b. To my tastes, it felt weirdly bright at first, but tamed down significantly later. Not sure what happened. That aside, the bass and soundstage increased. It is also slightly more detailed than the former. Really enjoying this!
> The only weak link in my chain now is my DAC. Deciding between RME ADI-2 or CHORD Qutest (or Hugo 2). Wonder what I should do given my bass and soundstage fetishes.


The RME has treble and bass controls... As well as PEQ.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

BrowChan said:


> The only weak link in my chain now is my DAC. Deciding between RME ADI-2 or CHORD Qutest (or Hugo 2). Wonder what I should do given my bass and soundstage fetishes.



Seems like Adi-2 and Qutest are both splendid devices, and that it is geek-options (RME) vs simplicity (Chord). I sold my Hugo2, the amp is nothing special and the usb input port was too flimsy for me given that it is was the only digital port.


----------



## Litlgi74

Hoegaardener70 said:


> geek-options (RME)


LOL... check out the manual: http://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/adi2dacr_e.pdf


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Litlgi74 said:


> LOL... check out the manual: http://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/adi2dacr_e.pdf


Yes, the section about the high gain mode reads more like developers notes. Nice, I very much prefer this to marketing talk. No questions left after this paragraph. 

“The Extreme Power output stage acts like a small power amplifier, so it got a similar feature set: a relay that mutes and interrupts the connection to the phones, a DC sensing circuit to prevent DC at the output (DC destroys your precious phones already when the rated watts are not even closely reached!), and an over-current protection circuit that will notice when a short-circuit causes too high current, preventing the output stage to get destroyed. In light of the malicious treatment of this output stage during development it needs to be mentioned that it can not be destroyed by a short-circuit at the output nor by overheating.”


----------



## paradoxper

ajaipuriyar said:


> Once you upgrade your DAC, you will automatically find a new weak link and it will be your next upgrade project.
> 
> Story of our lives  😀


YES. 

Cables!

🤣


----------



## DJJEZ

BrowChan said:


> Can't go wrong with using them on floating shelves either.
> 
> 
> Also, I got too tempted and upgraded my HSA-1a to HSA-1b. To my tastes, it felt weirdly bright at first, but tamed down significantly later. Not sure what happened. That aside, the bass and soundstage increased. It is also slightly more detailed than the former. Really enjoying this!
> The only weak link in my chain now is my DAC. Deciding between RME ADI-2 or CHORD Qutest (or Hugo 2). Wonder what I should do given my bass and soundstage fetishes.


TT2 🥰


----------



## JLoud

While this doesn't pertain to the 1266, I just started a Roon trial yesterday. Never could understand why anyone would pay for the features Roon promotes as their key features. Well after one day I think I'm going to subscribe. It just works so smoothly and honestly the visual appeal of the interface is probably worth it to me.


----------



## jlbrach

I bought a lifetime membership several years ago and never looked back


----------



## ra990

jlbrach said:


> I bought a lifetime membership several years ago and never looked back


The amount of endpoints I have setup around the house, each bedroom, living room, etc has it's own endpoint - be it a chromecast, a nice DAC, whatever - nothing works as smoothly and is so convenient to use. I got an annual subscription, but will likely upgrade to lifetime. Really great software.


----------



## BrowChan

Litlgi74 said:


> The RME has treble and bass controls... As well as PEQ.


Yup, that's one of the reasons why I'm looking at it, but I hear people saying the SS is more on the Qutest. And I like both soundstage and bass.


Hoegaardener70 said:


> Seems like Adi-2 and Qutest are both splendid devices, and that it is geek-options (RME) vs simplicity (Chord). I sold my Hugo2, the amp is nothing special and the usb input port was too flimsy for me given that it is was the only digital port.


I thought of Hugo 2 to have it work portably just in case, but if the AMP sucks, then I'll remove it from my options. I think I heard some people having issues with their batteries as well.....I'm not entirely sure.


----------



## BrowChan

DJJEZ said:


> TT2 🥰


Haha, you see, I wanted to get the TT2 and use its rear output for my TC and call it quits for a bit. But I got the HSA AMP cause I'm looking forward to the possible circumaural version of RAAL HPs, or I may get back to the SR1a in the future. Kinda miss that headphone.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

BrowChan said:


> Yup, that's one of the reasons why I'm looking at it, but I hear people saying the SS is more on the Qutest. And I like both soundstage and bass.
> 
> I thought of Hugo 2 to have it work portably just in case, but if the AMP sucks, then I'll remove it from my options. I think I heard some people having issues with their batteries as well.....I'm not entirely sure.


Well, to be fair, most people love their Hugo2. But it wasn't for me.


----------



## BrowChan

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Well, to be fair, most people love their Hugo2. But it wasn't for me.


A trial for me would be nice, I guess. Haha
Some say they sound a bit different and some say they sound the same. Comparing Qutest and H2.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

BrowChan said:


> A trial for me would be nice, I guess. Haha
> Some say they sound a bit different and some say they sound the same. Comparing Qutest and H2.


Well, I once connected my DAP, an ifi micro BL (connected to an iphone) and a Hugo2 (connected to an iPad) to my big main amp, playing the same song from the same file and allowing me to switch on the fly. No cable change, just an instant of a second change. Result - they all sounded different but not as much as one might think, the ifi was the most bass-prone (a tiny bit muddy), the H2 was the most sterile but probably audiophile one, and the DAP (QP2R) was the best sounding one. Nice experiment.


----------



## BrowChan

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Well, I once connected my DAP, an ifi micro BL (connected to an iphone) and a Hugo2 (connected to an iPad) to my big main amp, playing the same song from the same file and allowing me to switch on the fly. No cable change, just an instant of a second change. Result - they all sounded different but not as much as one might think, the ifi was the most bass-prone (a tiny bit muddy), the H2 was the most sterile but probably audiophile one, and the DAP (QP2R) was the best sounding one. Nice experiment.


That's nice, I might have to try that with my iPad too. I thought of getting an RCA switch box at some point to A/B.

How much difference did ya notice in the SS, by the way?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Sound signature? Solid state? Super sampling?


----------



## jlbrach

BrowChan said:


> Haha, you see, I wanted to get the TT2 and use its rear output for my TC and call it quits for a bit. But I got the HSA AMP cause I'm looking forward to the possible circumaural version of RAAL HPs, or I may get back to the SR1a in the future. Kinda miss that headphone.


the sr1a is special and really one of a kind...personally I couldnt be without it and I love my 1266 TC...it is just that there are plenty of planars but only one sr1a


----------



## DJJEZ (Mar 17, 2021)

JLoud said:


> While this doesn't pertain to the 1266, I just started a Roon trial yesterday. Never could understand why anyone would pay for the features Roon promotes as their key features. Well after one day I think I'm going to subscribe. It just works so smoothly and honestly the visual appeal of the interface is probably worth it to me.


I joined about a month ago and can't live without It now. Use it with Tidal Hifi


----------



## tholt

JLoud said:


> While this doesn't pertain to the 1266, I just started a Roon trial yesterday. Never could understand why anyone would pay for the features Roon promotes as their key features. Well after one day I think I'm going to subscribe. It just works so smoothly and honestly the visual appeal of the interface is probably worth it to me.


Roon + Tidal was (and still is) a game changer for me. Roon is a super polished UX and a seamless way to integrate streaming and local files. And streaming allowed me to have access to tons of fresh new music instead of listening in a vacuum just to the music I owned. I haven't played anything on a physical disc in a looooong time.


----------



## OceanRanger

tholt said:


> Roon + Tidal was (and still is) a game changer for me. Roon is a super polished UX and a seamless way to integrate streaming and local files. And streaming allowed me to have access to tons of fresh new music instead of listening in a vacuum just to the music I owned. I haven't played anything on a physical disc in a looooong time.


I've enjoyed going down some awesome music rabbit holes. Finding an artist that I enjoy and then clicking on related artists that are mentioned in the Overview section is a great way to discover new music. Kudos to the folks at Roon for building discovery features into their UX.


----------



## MatW

I'll join in with the praise for Roon. I have a lifetime subscription, use it with Qobuz, Tidal and some local files. Six good endpoints in the house. Very happy with it, I wish I had joined years ago. The only audio equipment that is not a Roon endpoint is my DAP. Since the AK SP2000 became Roon ready a few days ago, I'm tempted to buy it again. However, I only use the DAP outside the house, where Roon won't be available... But it's still tempting.


----------



## BrowChan

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Sound signature? Solid state? Super sampling?


My bad, I meant Soundstage. haha. I never had a thing for soundstage until I heard these TOTL HPs.



jlbrach said:


> the sr1a is special and really one of a kind...personally I couldnt be without it and I love my 1266 TC...it is just that there are plenty of planars but only one sr1a


I agree it is special. I'd keep the SR1a if it had the TC bass (as in the heavy presence and distortion-free impact for some tracks/movies). The SR1a is really awesome, but a majority of my listening is bass focused. 
This is somewhat of a similar issue I'm running into with choosing DACs. RME's know for its myriad of options including EQ (can adjust bass to liking) while the Qutest is known for its soundstage and lifelike presentation (all based on what I heard people say).


----------



## Hoegaardener70

BrowChan said:


> My bad, I meant Soundstage. haha. I never had a thing for soundstage until I heard these TOTL HPs.


I made  the experiment with the Utopia, where precise localization and spatial arrangement are key to the enjoyment. In any case, for none of these aspects - soundstage and spatial -  ... could I identify a significant difference.


----------



## BrowChan

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I made  the experiment with the Utopia, where precise localization and spatial arrangement are key to the enjoyment. In any case, for none of these aspects - soundstage and spatial -  ... could I identify a significant difference.


I see, but the Utopia is know for its relatively intimate sound, no? I'm starting to think the changes won't be significant unless I spent more than $2K on a DAC, lol. A simple few day's trial would help me discern the differences on the TC.


----------



## jlbrach

BrowChan said:


> My bad, I meant Soundstage. haha. I never had a thing for soundstage until I heard these TOTL HPs.
> 
> 
> I agree it is special. I'd keep the SR1a if it had the TC bass (as in the heavy presence and distortion-free impact for some tracks/movies). The SR1a is really awesome, but a majority of my listening is bass focused.
> This is somewhat of a similar issue I'm running into with choosing DACs. RME's know for its myriad of options including EQ (can adjust bass to liking) while the Qutest is known for its soundstage and lifelike presentation (all based on what I heard people say).


interestingly I find the bass on the sr1a to be among the best I have heard in terms of accuracy...it sounds right to my ears...it does however lack the visceral impact and grunt you get with planars and standard designs...that said the only time I find it lacking is immediately after listening to the abyss when for a short time I notice it..otherwise the bass issue is no issue to me...in fact the space that the sr1a creates in some cases makes the bass although lacking sub bass...very prominent...all in all 2 wonderful HP's and it is simply a matter of preference....I find myself thinking whichever one I worn last to be the best lol


----------



## BrowChan

jlbrach said:


> I find myself thinking whichever one I worn last to be the best lol


Haha! I have the same experience except when I do heavy subbass focused tracks/episodes/movies. I tried to EQ as well, but they have a limit that doesn’t get close to the TC. I can bring the drivers closer to my ears, but the SS isn’t there as much and the subbass quantity still falls short. However, the SR1a is accurate (like you said) and surprisingly *slams* hard (w/o distorting) and I found this when I tried some dubstep on it just for fun.

But come SR1a w/ TC bass, that’s a *crème de la crème*, and I’ll stop looking into HPs for a good while.


----------



## jlbrach

every product has some sort of weakness,there is nothing perfect...the sr1a with the same accuracy in the bass and the sub bass of the abyss would be the only HP anyone would ever need to purchase


----------



## ra990

jlbrach said:


> every product has some sort of weakness,there is nothing perfect...the sr1a with the same accuracy in the bass and the sub bass of the abyss would be the only HP anyone would ever need to purchase


It sounds like the SR1a in a room with a subwoofer to compensate for low end would be the ticket.


----------



## jlbrach (Mar 18, 2021)

not for me because I dont crave the sub bass, but for some people perhaps...I think part of what makes the sr1a so special and so unique is the lack of what I call the bloom of the sub bass...not that there is a lack of bass because there isnt but there is a lack of the sub bass that in a headphone creates an almost pillow like experience....everything has their own preference and that is a good thing otherwise we would need only 1 HP lol


----------



## Hoegaardener70

jlbrach said:


> otherwise we would need only 1 HP lol



That is what I am currently trying to achieve - one headphone. Well, two ... one open, one closed. It is very hard ... what do I value more, comfort or ultimate sound? Easy to use with a DAP having a compromise, or best sound for non portability. 

Oh dear. 

The final contenders for the open headphone section are .... TC of course, and Empy. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## MatW

While I really like the Susvara and the LCD4, the Abyss is still the King of headphones for me. Absolutely fantastic headphone. I listened to the brand new Devin Townsend acoustic live album tonight, and it's like being in the audience. Just awesome.

The Empyrean was my first love, super comfortable and pretty. But not in the same league in terms of sound, in my experience.

Let's see what you decide!


----------



## jlbrach

the empyrean is a fine product, beautiful to look at and incredibly comfortable...in terms of sound quality IMHO it isnt in the same league as the abyss...that isnt criticism because only a couple of HP's are


----------



## ra990

...the elusive ONE HEADPHONE TO RULE THEM ALL


----------



## tkam

I still really enjoy the Empyrean but I have to agree that they just don't measure up sonically to the Abyss.  They aren't in the same league in that regard.  With the Empyrean you are paying quite a bit of for the design, materials and comfort.  They are easily the most comfortable headphones I own and they do look amazing.  Going strictly on sound quality there are several headphones that cost much less I'd take over them.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

tkam said:


> I still really enjoy the Empyrean but I have to agree that they just don't measure up sonically to the Abyss.  They aren't in the same league in that regard.  With the Empyrean you are paying quite a bit of for the design, materials and comfort.  They are easily the most comfortable headphones I own and they do look amazing.  Going strictly on sound quality there are several headphones that cost much less I'd take over them.





jlbrach said:


> the empyrean is a fine product, beautiful to look at and incredibly comfortable...in terms of sound quality IMHO it isnt in the same league as the abyss...that isnt criticism because only a couple of HP's are


Oh yes, for sure, looking into sound quality they don't stand a chance against other flagships, and for sure not the tc. But the fact that they are comfy, work with any DAP (which means they get more enjoy-time on the sofa, at the window, wherever) and last not least the amazing ability to make crappy mp3 files sound very decent are all compelling arguments. In an ideal world - both . Unfortunately, my world is far from ideal lately.


----------



## DJJEZ

i agree with others.. empyrean build quality, looks and comfort is up there with the best, that new colourway they just revealed is sexy as well  but the sound quality is noway near a TOTL headphone like the 1266tc


----------



## 340519 (Mar 19, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> i agree with others.. empyrean build quality, looks and comfort is up there with the best, that new colourway they just revealed is sexy as well  but the sound quality is noway near a TOTL headphone like the 1266tc


Not true. I disagree completely.  I own both and the empy is every ohm as good as the 1266 tc phi.


----------



## 340519 (Mar 19, 2021)

MatW said:


> While I really like the Susvara and the LCD4, the Abyss is still the King of headphones for me. Absolutely fantastic headphone. I listened to the brand new Devin Townsend acoustic live album tonight, and it's like being in the audience. Just awesome.
> 
> The Empyrean was my first love, super comfortable and pretty. But not in the same league in terms of sound, in my experience.
> 
> Let's see what you decide!


The empy is just as good as the TC imho.


----------



## ra990

dmdm said:


> The empy is just as good as the TC.  I'll have to say it again.





dmdm said:


> Not true. I disagree completely.  I own both and the empy is every ohm as good as the 1266 tc phi.



Your TC is defective, no other explanation.


----------



## 340519

ra990 said:


> Your TC is defective, no other explanation.


Nah it works just fine.


----------



## ra990 (Mar 19, 2021)

dmdm said:


> Nah it works just fine.


Then your ears are bad or you are exaggerating. If you think the empys are as capable as the TC, something is not right. That's all I can say.

It's fair to say you enjoy them both as much as the other...nobody can argue with that.


----------



## 340519 (Mar 19, 2021)

ra990 said:


> Then your ears are bad or you are exaggerating. If you think the empys are as capable as the TC, something is not right. That's all I can say.


Well I'm listening to the empys right now and not the tcs.  And my ears are just fine.  Exaggerating? Well maybe there's some embellishment in there as all of this is subjective.  So yes, just my opinion.  But I'd sell the tcs and keep the empys if I had to choose.  I just listened to Depeche Mode's 101 in it's entirety on the empys and it sounded divine, but I couldn't do the whole album with the tcs unfortunately.


----------



## ra990

dmdm said:


> Well I'm listening to the empys right now and not the tcs.  And my ears are just fine.  Exaggerating? Well maybe there's some embellishment in there as all of this is subjective.  So yes, just my opinion.  But I'd sell the tcs and keep the empys if I had to choose.  I just listened to Depeche Mode's 101 in it's entirety on the empys and it sounded divine, but I couldn't do the whole album with the tcs unfortunately.


 to each their own...


----------



## vonBaron

dmdm said:


> Well I'm listening to the empys right now and not the tcs.  And my ears are just fine.  Exaggerating? Well maybe there's some embellishment in there as all of this is subjective.  So yes, just my opinion.  But I'd sell the tcs and keep the empys if I had to choose.  I just listened to Depeche Mode's 101 in it's entirety on the empys and it sounded divine, but I couldn't do the whole album with the tcs unfortunately.


Sorry but Bryston AMP is not good synergy with 1266.


----------



## 340519 (Mar 20, 2021)

vonBaron said:


> Sorry but Bryston AMP is not good synergy with 1266.


That's just not true. It has ample power and sounds good.  I wouldn't have any other amp and it was sold to me by the same dealer as the abyss (Simcoe Audio in Barrie Ontario. I actually bought two of the Bryston BHA1s from them. A rock solid amplifier with 6 class A amps in it). They recommend them highly together. Bryston is my end game and I love their gear. And don't get me wrong, I like my tcs and I'm quite happy with them.


----------



## Litlgi74

ra990 said:


> Your TC is defective, no other explanation.


After a disastrous day.. I needed that belly laugh!


----------



## ra990

I evaluated the Empy against the Ether 2 and concluded that the Ether 2 was the better headphone, although it was close. The Abyss is clearly better than either of them to my ears, not even the same league.


----------



## jlbrach

dmdm said:


> Not true. I disagree completely.  I own both and the empy is every ohm as good as the 1266 tc phi.


I would say that would be a distinct minority opinion...I won the TC and owned the empyrean for a short period of time and to be honest IMHO there is no comparison but hey if the empy is your cup of tea enjoy it...lots of people here just say things for effect


----------



## DJJEZ

dmdm said:


> Not true. I disagree completely.  I own both and the empy is every ohm as good as the 1266 tc phi.


You are the first and probably only person to ever say this


----------



## 340519 (Mar 19, 2021)

Litlgi74 said:


> After a disastrous day.. I needed that belly laugh!


lol yeah


jlbrach said:


> I would say that would be a distinct minority opinion...I won the TC and owned the empyrean for a short period of time and to be honest IMHO there is no comparison but hey if the empy is your cup of tea enjoy it...lots of people here just say things for effect


Thanks, I did not mean to troll the thread or say it for effect.  That was not my intention. Good point though. I suppose my opinion arises from listening to enough poorly recorded and/or bright albums which the empys smooth over. Perhaps just treble sensitivity.
But on material like Above and Beyond, or NIN, the tcs really shine with their energy and clarity.  I'm actually lucky to own both.  To split hairs between them is really my first world problem and is insignificant.  Now back to the listening!


----------



## Hoegaardener70

jlbrach said:


> ... I won the TC


LOL, I want to win one too. Then I can keep both tc and empy


----------



## Hoegaardener70

dmdm said:


> Good point though. I suppose my opinion arises from listening to enough poorly recorded and/or bright albums which the epys smooth over. Perhaps just treble sensitivity.
> But on material like Above and Beyond, or NIN, the tcs really shine with their energy and clarity.


THIS! I also want to make clear, when I brought the topic up, I did not mean sound quality only.. .. Sound is the full points for TC. But there are other points - comfort (my head, not everybody's) with glasses, portability again for my use, music and its format. I guess it is pure sound versus versatility.


----------



## JLoud

While I love my TC and LCD4, the weight and comfort at times become an issue. I had the Empyrean for a time and found it very comfortable. But in the end the sound signature just wasn't for me. But the "Best" headphone is the one you enjoy the most. For me that changes almost daily.


----------



## jlbrach

I am with you, I also find my thoughts as to best changing all the time...between the sr1a,the TC and susvara the last one I listen to is usually my favorite although recently the sr1a has been getting the bulk of the time


----------



## MatW

In the first few months with the Susvara I also felt that between the TC and Susvara whichever I used last is the best. But recently I am leaning more towards the TC as my favorite. That doesn't mean I would part with the Susvara. I'm still very happy with it. But the TC... is just unbeatable, for me!


----------



## Roasty

I think I remember reading some member(s) managed to get Abyss to custom make speaker taps adaptor using Superconductor cables. Could you share pics and cost? Thinking of getting one made.


----------



## Litlgi74

Roasty said:


> I think I remember reading some member(s) managed to get Abyss to custom make speaker taps adaptor using Superconductor cables. Could you share pics and cost? Thinking of getting one made.


It was @ken6217... I think he paid $500... I'm sure he'll chime in.


----------



## simorag (Mar 20, 2021)

MatW said:


> In the first few months with the Susvara I also felt that between the TC and Susvara whichever I used last is the best. But recently I am leaning more towards the TC as my favorite. That doesn't mean I would part with the Susvara. I'm still very happy with it. But the TC... is just unbeatable, for me!



I had the TC / Susvara / SR1a trifecta for a while and enjoyed all three headphones greatly.

They all have something truly special in what they do, and complement each other fairly well, while all sharing an audiophile-tuned, highly-technical sound signature (the pinnacle being the SR1a in this respect).

In the end I decided to sell both the Susvara and SR1a to fund new projects, and kept the TC as I find them the best all-rounder - while having their relative weaknesses - and, more importantly, the most _engaging_ ones to listen. The 1266 just trigger my brain and guts at the same time in a unique way, and keep wowing me everyday after all these years


----------



## qboogie

I'm thinking about upgrading my amp from the TT2 to the Formula S/powerman in the coming months.

1. I'm surprised that there isn't a specific thread for this gear yet, since it's been years since its release. Would it be alright if I created that official thread?

2. For Formula S owners, what interconnects have folks been using between it and your DAC?

3. Is there any difference at all in terms of power output or stereo separation between the XLR4, dual XLR3 and single ended 1/4inch?


----------



## FLTWS (Mar 20, 2021)

qboogie said:


> I'm thinking about upgrading my amp from the TT2 to the Formula S/powerman in the coming months.
> 
> 1. I'm surprised that there isn't a specific thread for this gear yet, since it's been years since its release. Would it be alright if I created that official thread?
> 
> ...


2. For Formula S owners, what interconnects have folks been using between it and your DAC?

  Dana Cable, Straight Wire, DH Labs, JPS Labs, Moon Dragon's, Blue Jeans, WBC, and CFL's custom made Mogami  2549 with Neutrik NF2C-B/2 Professional RCA's.
  They all have worked well for me, and from my perspective, only very slight differences in sonic flavoring. The amp to HP cable is where the rubber meets the road in my    opinion.

3. Is there any difference at all in terms of power output or stereo separation between the XLR4, dual XLR3 and single ended 1/4inch?

   It shouldn't, the Formula S is a single ended design, I think they offer XLR's (including on the back for inputs) for those that prefer them. I only use XLR's with balanced    amps, no advantage with an SE circuit as far as I know. I do much prefer my 4 pin HP cables over having to use the 1/4 inch adapter.


----------



## Litlgi74

@Roasty @ken6217 must not be getting notifications again...

Here's a photo of his cables he ordered from Abyss... I'm sure he won't mind me sharing. No fancy black sheathing.


----------



## qboogie

FLTWS said:


> 2. For Formula S owners, what interconnects have folks been using between it and your DAC?
> 
> Dana Cable, Straight Wire, DH Labs, JPS Labs, Moon Dragon's, Blue Jeans, WBC, and CFL's custom made Mogami  2549 with Neutrik NF2C-B/2 Professional RCA's.
> They all have worked well for me, and from my perspective, only very slight differences in sonic flavoring. The amp to HP cable is where the rubber meets the road in my    opinion.
> ...


Thanks for your reply.


----------



## DJJEZ

qboogie said:


> I'm thinking about upgrading my amp from the TT2 to the Formula S/powerman in the coming months.
> 
> 1. I'm surprised that there isn't a specific thread for this gear yet, since it's been years since its release. Would it be alright if I created that official thread?
> 
> ...


Are you gonna still keep the TT2 as your dac?


----------



## jlbrach

why wouldnt he?...it is a great DAC


----------



## Aramg

scolaiw said:


> _Welcome to the official *JPS Labs: Abyss AB-1266 Appreciation & Impressions Thread*! In here you will find all things Abyss. Feel free to post your own impressions of the Abyss as well as discuss anything you like (as long as it is at least slightly related to the Abyss). To begin with, my very own impressions of the Abyss after the first few times I heard them..._
> 
> *Introduction*
> 
> ...


thank you for your honestly! gonna go for the stax system for sure now!


----------



## Aramg

DefQon said:


> I'm still sticking with what I said this will not compare against the SR009 at the disgraceful price these are at. But I do feel that these are a good contender against the HE-6 and that they need power to somewhat sound decent.


In your opinion, what would beat the SR009s besides the HE-1? Don't know of any other estats out there that could compete with stax.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Aramg said:


> thank you for your honestly! gonna go for the stax system for sure now!



Look at the date. It compares the original abyss vs Stax. A lot happened in 8 years ...


----------



## Aramg

irrelevant. completely different transducers technologies. that hasn't changed my man


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Aramg said:


> irrelevant. completely different transducers technologies. that hasn't changed my man



I have no clue what you are talking about since we moved on from ab-1266 to phi to tc. 3 driver generations. But of course, if you think this is irrelevant, why posting here?


----------



## qboogie

Yes, it's an awesome DAC. I don't think I'll ever part with it.


----------



## jlbrach

Aramg said:


> thank you for your honestly! gonna go for the stax system for sure now!


is this a serious post?...you are going to make a buying decision regarding TOTL HP's based upon this guys opinion of the original abyss 1266?...seriously?....personally I dont think the guy has a clue but he has a right to his opinion but his whole critique is kind of ridiculous...my suggestion is to give the 1266 TC a listen on a proper system and my guess is you will end up owning them


----------



## Ravatar (Mar 20, 2021)

For speaker amp users, any good recommendations for 1266 TC? Especially low-watt amps that are safe for 1266 (like first watt?).


----------



## Bonddam

Curse Abyss 1266 TC I have to sit funny. Why you gotta sound so good, you'd make an easy sale for me. Damn, always having to adjust you. Abyss needs to figure out the bass issue so I could stop complaining.


----------



## typalder

Ravatar said:


> For speaker amp users, any good recommendations for 1266 TC? Especially low-watt amps that are safe for 1266 (like first watt?).


i`m using an older accuphase (e250) and it´s awesome!


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Is anybody using here Roon's DSP for the ab-1266tc? Would you mind sharing the setting? I searched and could not find anything.  
Thanks, guys. 

PS: If you believe that the tc would not benefit from eq, that's fine but no need to point out. Each to their own.


----------



## jlbrach

I wont point it out then lol...I will however say that since EQ is adjusting the stock sound I would assume it would be a trial and error thing for people seeking a different sound...what good does it do to use the settings that another person dials in?...


----------



## Roasty

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Is anybody using here Roon's DSP for the ab-1266tc? Would you mind sharing the setting? I searched and could not find anything.
> Thanks, guys.
> 
> PS: If you believe that the tc would not benefit from eq, that's fine but no need to point out. Each to their own.



A guy posted this a while back. Have tried with good effect. I use it sometimes depending on my mood and if I feel the song needs a bit of help..


----------



## Roasty

Litlgi74 said:


> @Roasty @ken6217 must not be getting notifications again...
> 
> Here's a photo of his cables he ordered from Abyss... I'm sure he won't mind me sharing. No fancy black sheathing.



Hey thanks very much! 
I will ask Abyss if they can make something similar.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

jlbrach said:


> I wont point it out then lol...I will however say that since EQ is adjusting the stock sound I would assume it would be a trial and error thing for people seeking a different sound...what good does it do to use the settings that another person dials in?...


It is not that I can come up with a setting just like that, I needs a place to start. Great someone could help here.  


Roasty said:


> A guy posted this a while back. Have tried with good effect. I use it sometimes depending on my mood and if I feel the song needs a bit of help..


Brilliant, Roasty. Thank you very much!


----------



## Roasty

Hoegaardener70 said:


> It is not that I can come up with a setting just like that, I needs a place to start. Great someone could help here.
> 
> Brilliant, Roasty. Thank you very much!



By the way, it is -3dB on the overall preamp. Just drag down the slider on the right of the graph. And no need to set any headroom compensation.


----------



## PortableAudioLover (Mar 20, 2021)

qboogie said:


> I'm thinking about upgrading my amp from the TT2 to the Formula S/powerman in the coming months.
> 
> 1. I'm surprised that there isn't a specific thread for this gear yet, since it's been years since its release. Would it be alright if I created that official thread?
> 
> ...


----------



## jlbrach

quite honestly if you can swing the cash I seriously recommend the powerman...it makes it into a different and far better amp


----------



## qboogie

Feel free to get it poppin in the new Formula S thread
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/eleven-audio-xiaudio-formula-s-headphone-amplifier.956765/


----------



## Ravatar

typalder said:


> i`m using an older accuphase (e250) and it´s awesome!


What is sound character of Accuphase pairing with 1266?


----------



## BrowChan

I can't believe I just listed my HSA AMP for sale. It was a hard decision for me, but I think I am getting the TT2 and use its rear to drive my TC (based on what I've been reading and have been advised) and call it a stall until I stop travelling to places somewhat frequently. 

I hope I don't regret this.


----------



## paradoxper

Aramg said:


> irrelevant. completely different transducers technologies. that hasn't changed my man


DefQon no longer participates here. He also no longer participates at the other place.

However, his sentiment only applied to the OG which he was quite right. 
You could argue, at that time, the OG Abyss was a little bass-trick-pony. 

Shame on you for necro-quoting. 

Now as a former STAX zealot in the DIY T2 camp, if you're going to STAX, go all the way.

If not, buy a SR1a.


----------



## typalder

Ravatar said:


> What is sound character of Accuphase pairing with 1266?


it just sounds right. the accuphase is al little warm and musical so to say while the abyss is accurate und high resolving. so it seems like a perfect match to me.


----------



## vonBaron

Pelican case for Abyss arrive!


----------



## Stereolab42

Learned a valuable lesson today on the power of the mind... I have the Drop 789 (which replaced my Monolith 887 for reasons unrelated to this post) to play with while my HPA4 is built. Last night I was listening to the Abyss on the WA5 and decided to switch to the 789. I become convinced it sounded like crap, compressed and dry. I couldn't shake the feeling after swapping a few times and comparing tracks. I then dragged out an old Violetric and compared the 789, Violectric, and WA5 on my Stellia, and came to the same conclusion -- the 789 sounded bad. Since the HPA4 uses the same THX AAA technology, should I immediately cancel it and look elsewhere?

Well, this morning, I realized I had an old A/B headphone switcher lying around. I couldn't use it with the Abyss but I could with the Stellia so I hooked it up and A/B'd the 789 and the Violectric (obviously both solid-state, so apples to apples). After level-matching by ear I went to get a drink, and in the meantime forgot which was A and B. (Yeah, hardly a scientific test, but trust me, I am VERY forgetful.) I compared a bunch of tracks and decided which position on the switch was my favorite. Guess what, it was the 789. The differences I thought I heard last night disappeared. With the 789 versus the WA5 on the switcher I did prefer the WA5, but I concluded it was due to the WA5's wonderful tube warmth, not because the 789 was any less dynamic.

Going back to the Abyss, without an XLR switcher I couldn't do the same blind-ish comparison between the 789 and the WA5 (my Violectric doesn't speak Abyss). Manually moving the cable and re-comparing tracks, however, I now don't hear what I heard last night. So my order for the HPA4 stands.

Moral of the story: Your brain is a liar.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

jlbrach said:


> quite honestly if you can swing the cash I seriously recommend the powerman...it makes it into a different and far better





Stereolab42 said:


> Learned a valuable lesson today on the power of the mind... I have the Drop 789 (which replaced my Monolith 887 for reasons unrelated to this post) to play with while my HPA4 is built. Last night I was listening to the Abyss on the WA5 and decided to switch to the 789. I become convinced it sounded like crap, compressed and dry. I couldn't shake the feeling after swapping a few times and comparing tracks. I then dragged out an old Violetric and compared the 789, Violectric, and WA5 on my Stellia, and came to the same conclusion -- the 789 sounded bad. Since the HPA4 uses the same THX AAA technology, should I immediately cancel it and look elsewhere?
> 
> Well, this morning, I realized I had an old A/B headphone switcher lying around. I couldn't use it with the Abyss but I could with the Stellia so I hooked it up and A/B'd the 789 and the Violectric (obviously both solid-state, so apples to apples). After level-matching by ear I went to get a drink, and in the meantime forgot which was A and B. (Yeah, hardly a scientific test, but trust me, I am VERY forgetful.) I compared a bunch of tracks and decided which position on the switch was my favorite. Guess what, it was the 789. The differences I thought I heard last night disappeared. With the 789 versus the WA5 on the switcher I did prefer the WA5, but I concluded it was due to the WA5's wonderful tube warmth, not because the 789 was any less dynamic.
> 
> ...


What was the motivation of getting HPA4 rather than the formula S ?


----------



## tholt

Stereolab42 said:


> Learned a valuable lesson today on the power of the mind... I have the Drop 789 (which replaced my Monolith 887 for reasons unrelated to this post) to play with while my HPA4 is built. Last night I was listening to the Abyss on the WA5 and decided to switch to the 789. I become convinced it sounded like crap, compressed and dry. I couldn't shake the feeling after swapping a few times and comparing tracks. I then dragged out an old Violetric and compared the 789, Violectric, and WA5 on my Stellia, and came to the same conclusion -- the 789 sounded bad. Since the HPA4 uses the same THX AAA technology, should I immediately cancel it and look elsewhere?
> 
> Well, this morning, I realized I had an old A/B headphone switcher lying around. I couldn't use it with the Abyss but I could with the Stellia so I hooked it up and A/B'd the 789 and the Violectric (obviously both solid-state, so apples to apples). After level-matching by ear I went to get a drink, and in the meantime forgot which was A and B. (Yeah, hardly a scientific test, but trust me, I am VERY forgetful.) I compared a bunch of tracks and decided which position on the switch was my favorite. Guess what, it was the 789. The differences I thought I heard last night disappeared. With the 789 versus the WA5 on the switcher I did prefer the WA5, but I concluded it was due to the WA5's wonderful tube warmth, not because the 789 was any less dynamic.
> 
> ...


I've had the 789 for a few months now. I bought it solely to use against another amp that I was troubleshooting. I assumed I would hate the 789 and return it after my experiment was over. Well, neither happened. I ended up liking it more than I thought, and keeping it just to have. I've been using it as my main driver until I can find a much better replacement. For its almost throwaway cost, it's surprisingly good with the Abyss. Not warm by any means, so if you need a little warmth, needs to happen up the chain.


----------



## stemiki

Stereolab42 said:


> Learned a valuable lesson today on the power of the mind... I have the Drop 789 (which replaced my Monolith 887 for reasons unrelated to this post) to play with while my HPA4 is built. Last night I was listening to the Abyss on the WA5 and decided to switch to the 789. I become convinced it sounded like crap, compressed and dry. I couldn't shake the feeling after swapping a few times and comparing tracks. I then dragged out an old Violetric and compared the 789, Violectric, and WA5 on my Stellia, and came to the same conclusion -- the 789 sounded bad. Since the HPA4 uses the same THX AAA technology, should I immediately cancel it and look elsewhere?
> 
> Well, this morning, I realized I had an old A/B headphone switcher lying around. I couldn't use it with the Abyss but I could with the Stellia so I hooked it up and A/B'd the 789 and the Violectric (obviously both solid-state, so apples to apples). After level-matching by ear I went to get a drink, and in the meantime forgot which was A and B. (Yeah, hardly a scientific test, but trust me, I am VERY forgetful.) I compared a bunch of tracks and decided which position on the switch was my favorite. Guess what, it was the 789. The differences I thought I heard last night disappeared. With the 789 versus the WA5 on the switcher I did prefer the WA5, but I concluded it was due to the WA5's wonderful tube warmth, not because the 789 was any less dynamic.
> 
> ...


HPA4 with Abyss great combination!


----------



## Stereolab42 (Mar 21, 2021)

PortableAudioLover said:


> What was the motivation of getting HPA4 rather than the formula S ?


More compatible with higher-sensitivity headphones, Formula S only has 6db difference between its two gains and I've read reviews that say even on low it's got a noticeable noise floor on such headphones. The Moon non-DAC 430HA is really my other choice, and it's in stock locally, if I didn't want to go with the HPA4. I wonder if anyone has compared them.


----------



## jlbrach

Stereolab42 said:


> Learned a valuable lesson today on the power of the mind... I have the Drop 789 (which replaced my Monolith 887 for reasons unrelated to this post) to play with while my HPA4 is built. Last night I was listening to the Abyss on the WA5 and decided to switch to the 789. I become convinced it sounded like crap, compressed and dry. I couldn't shake the feeling after swapping a few times and comparing tracks. I then dragged out an old Violetric and compared the 789, Violectric, and WA5 on my Stellia, and came to the same conclusion -- the 789 sounded bad. Since the HPA4 uses the same THX AAA technology, should I immediately cancel it and look elsewhere?
> 
> Well, this morning, I realized I had an old A/B headphone switcher lying around. I couldn't use it with the Abyss but I could with the Stellia so I hooked it up and A/B'd the 789 and the Violectric (obviously both solid-state, so apples to apples). After level-matching by ear I went to get a drink, and in the meantime forgot which was A and B. (Yeah, hardly a scientific test, but trust me, I am VERY forgetful.) I compared a bunch of tracks and decided which position on the switch was my favorite. Guess what, it was the 789. The differences I thought I heard last night disappeared. With the 789 versus the WA5 on the switcher I did prefer the WA5, but I concluded it was due to the WA5's wonderful tube warmth, not because the 789 was any less dynamic.
> 
> ...


I have learned over the years that a-b comparisons are useless...when it is nuance and detail etc that you are after you can only really appreciate differences living with different components..that has been my experience


----------



## Stereolab42

jlbrach said:


> I have learned over the years that a-b comparisons are useless...when it is nuance and detail etc that you are after you can only really appreciate differences living with different components..that has been my experience


A/B is great for telling if there is an obvious difference between components. I agree it's less suitable for discerning subtle elements that take time to fully understand. You can always A/B switch more slowly but then you lose focus of what the previous selection sounded like. I see A/B as a rough filter for weeding out junk, but actual junk is rare these days.


----------



## jlbrach

if you are dealing with enormous differences then yes an a-b will be valid....but most differences are more subtle and nuanced and reveal themselves over time with different sources etc....I find myself many times listening to albums with one of my HP's and have wow moments where I hear things I never heard or hear very different presentations but had I not come across these passages I would not have recognized the differences


----------



## OceanRanger

jlbrach said:


> if you are dealing with enormous differences then yes an a-b will be valid....but most differences are more subtle and nuanced and reveal themselves over time with different sources etc....I find myself many times listening to albums with one of my HP's and have wow moments where I hear things I never heard or hear very different presentations but had I not come across these passages I would not have recognized the differences


The A/B discussion reminded me of a podcast that I recently listed to about the loss and return of smell as a result of COVID. The pod was pretty interesting and is located here . In the pod, scientists talked about how when doing tests with different individuals on the same chemical compound, some people can't smell it, some people perceive the smell as sweet and minty and some people perceive the smell as being an acrid chemical. 

This got me thinking a bit about how the same external input, smell and taste, can be perceived differently by people's brains. The same seems true with sound. Our headphones, DACs and amps reproduce the same music, however, the nuances of how that reproduction is perceived by our brains is a bit different for each of us. Food for thought on a Sunday...


----------



## jlbrach

I agree with you 100%.....in fact everyones hearing is different...some hear better than others...some cannot hear certain high frequencies...some are younger and some older and that certainly influences...the truth is when nuance and small details are being debated all these things need to be taken into consideration


----------



## OceanRanger

jlbrach said:


> I agree with you 100%.....in fact everyones hearing is different...some hear better than others...some cannot hear certain high frequencies...some are younger and some older and that certainly influences...the truth is when nuance and small details are being debated all these things need to be taken into consideration


The thing that got my brain really spinning was moving beyond the mechanical issues of sound and how much they do/don't move the tympanic membrane, but focusing on how the brain interprets the sound. Said differently, just because we can't measure differences in sound, it doesn't mean that our brains don't interpret things differently. Good times.


----------



## MacedonianHero (Mar 21, 2021)

dmdm said:


> That's just not true. It has ample power and sounds good.  I wouldn't have any other amp and it was sold to me by the same dealer as the abyss (Simcoe Audio in Barrie Ontario. I actually bought two of the Bryston BHA1s from them. A rock solid amplifier with 6 class A amps in it). They recommend them highly together. Bryston is my end game and I love their gear. And don't get me wrong, I like my tcs and I'm quite happy with them.



The Bryston amp is on the brighter side of things with a good emphasis on treble...likely why you love the Empy's so much with them and why it's not "ideal" with the Phi TC. Also, the BHA1 is underpowered for the Phi TC and the Empy's are much easier to drive properly. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## 340519 (Mar 22, 2021)

MacedonianHero said:


> The Bryston amp is on the brighter side of things with a good emphasis on treble...likely why you love the Empy's so much with them and why it's not "ideal" with the Phi TC. Also, the BHA1 is underpowered for the Phi TC and the Empy's are much easier to drive properly. Just my 2 cents.


I spoke to the head designer at bryston and he said the bha1 has plenty of power for the tcs. That's not the issue, just my preference in headphone sound signatures. I enjoy the tcs, but they're just not my favorite.

This is from Mike Pickett at Bryston to me:
"The combination of low impedance and low sensitivity will make the Abyss 'phones difficult to drive, but should have enough power to do so without stress. You may need to switch the unit to high gain mode to avoid having to turn it all the way up. The BHA1 still has power to spare at 3:00 on the dial, but that is definitely working it pretty hard."


----------



## paradoxper

dmdm said:


> I spoke to the head designer at bryston and he said the bha1 has plenty of power for the tcs. That's not the issue, just my preference in headphone sound signatures. I enjoy the tcs, but they're just not my favorite.


We all are a different kind of crazy but you are a special kind of crazy.


----------



## 340519

paradoxper said:


> We all are a different kind of crazy but you are a special kind of crazy.


Lol thank you. I am that.


----------



## ra990

paradoxper said:


> We all are a different kind of crazy but you are a special kind of crazy.


I'm the kind of crazy that never believes anyone when they say they didn't like the Abyss. I always think that they just didn't take the time to fit it on their head properly. A properly fitted Abyss 1266 is something undeniably unique and an awesome sonic experience.


----------



## 340519

ra990 said:


> I'm the kind of crazy that never believes anyone when they say they didn't like the Abyss. I always think that they just didn't take the time to fit it on their head properly. A properly fitted Abyss 1266 is something undeniably unique and an awesome sonic experience.


Hey I didn't say that.  I dig the abyss .


----------



## paradoxper

ra990 said:


> I'm the kind of crazy that never believes anyone when they say they didn't like the Abyss. I always think that they just didn't take the time to fit it on their head properly. A properly fitted Abyss 1266 is something undeniably unique and an awesome sonic experience.


Some people also hate bacon.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ra990 said:


> I'm the kind of crazy that never believes anyone when they say they didn't like the Abyss. I always think that they just didn't take the time to fit it on their head properly. A properly fitted Abyss 1266 is something undeniably unique and an awesome sonic experience.


I 100% agree.  It's either a bad fit or an amp that is too weak.  That's the only way I feel somebody could dislike the TCs


----------



## ra990 (Mar 21, 2021)

dmdm said:


> Hey I didn't say that.  I dig the abyss .


No, you didn't and I'm just generalizing - but I'm talking more about those that have said things like "I tried it at a show and don't get why people like it so much..."

Yea, not surprising, it takes a good 10 minutes just to fit it on the head properly.

For me, unless I wear this ridiculous looking beanie hat, I don't get the ideal fit. This is my Abyss hat, stays with the headphone and it's the only way I get perfect channel balance, even bass, the right amount of space between the pads and my face, and the headphones don't move around too much on it, so I can actually get into the music and move my head around without them falling off.


----------



## 340519

It's all good fellas. Let's just move on.


----------



## paradoxper

dmdm said:


> It's all good fellas. Let's just move on.


Ok. Bacon hater.


----------



## DJJEZ

ra990 said:


> No, you didn't and I'm just generalizing - but I'm talking more about those that have said things like "I tried it at a show and don't get why people like it so much..."
> 
> Yea, not surprising, it takes a good 10 minutes just to fit it on the head properly.
> 
> For me, unless I wear this ridiculous looking beanie hat, I don't get the ideal fit. This is my Abyss hat, stays with the headphone and it's the only way I get perfect channel balance, even bass, the right amount of space between the pads and my face, and the headphones don't move around too much on it, so I can actually get into the music and move my head around without them falling off.


Just wonder do you have hair or are bald? Waiting for my abyss to come and I'm bald so hoping they will still fit OK 😆


----------



## Roasty

Lol Abyss hat.. I love it! 
I actually prefer listening with the 1266 whilst wearing a baseball cap.


----------



## OceanRanger

ra990 said:


> No, you didn't and I'm just generalizing - but I'm talking more about those that have said things like "I tried it at a show and don't get why people like it so much..."
> 
> Yea, not surprising, it takes a good 10 minutes just to fit it on the head properly.
> 
> For me, unless I wear this ridiculous looking beanie hat, I don't get the ideal fit. This is my Abyss hat, stays with the headphone and it's the only way I get perfect channel balance, even bass, the right amount of space between the pads and my face, and the headphones don't move around too much on it, so I can actually get into the music and move my head around without them falling off.


hmmm, I never thought to try the TCs with a fleece beanie. it is simple and brilliant! I love bacon and the TCs.


----------



## 340519

paradoxper said:


> Ok. Bacon hater.


I'm more of a sausage guy lol. That came out weird.


----------



## tholt

dmdm said:


> I'm more of a sausage guy lol. That came out weird.


That's what he said...
Sorry.


----------



## ra990

DJJEZ said:


> Just wonder do you have hair or are bald? Waiting for my abyss to come and I'm bald so hoping they will still fit OK 😆


I have hair, not going bald yet!


----------



## Ciggavelli (Mar 21, 2021)

dmdm said:


> I'm more of a sausage guy lol. That came out weird.


----------



## paradoxper

dmdm said:


> I'm more of a sausage guy lol. That came out weird.


Crazy and weird. My people.


----------



## 340519

Good times in the abyss thread lol.


----------



## 340519 (Mar 24, 2021)

I actually have to do a mea culpa because 'where is everybody ' by nin just sounded absolutely incredible with the abyss through tidal. Crystal clear highs, amazing soundstage, fantastic dynamics, and rock solid bass. Maybe there is hope for me...


----------



## ra990

dmdm said:


> I actually have to do a mea culpa because 'where is everybody ' by nin just sounded absolutely incredible with the abyss through tidal. Crystal clear highs, amazing soundstage, fantastic dynamics, and rock solid bass. Maybe there is hope for me...


Sounds like you and and your Abyss TC need to get to know each other a little better. It's OK, don't be shy, we won't tell anyone...


----------



## Homrsimson

vonBaron said:


> Pelican case for Abyss arrive!


This is great, where did you get this?


----------



## vonBaron

Aliexpress


----------



## Gadget67

Roasty said:


> Lol Abyss hat.. I love it!
> I actually prefer listening with the 1266 whilst wearing a baseball cap.


Good suggestion...I’ve got lots of baseball caps in case I need to adjust for a good fit.  Patiently waiting for mine...


----------



## JLoud

Here is a case I bought for my Abyss. Works great and room for cables and portable amp. Off Amazon by monoprice. 28.5 liter 19”X16”X8”.


----------



## vonBaron

Too bad my Lazuli cable don't fit in my case


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 23, 2021)

Removed due to relevance.


----------



## Roasty

littlej0e said:


> So...
> 
> I received my Raal SR1a + HSA-1b + Ribbon Silver 1028 cable last night and I've barely slept since. These things are absolutely _stunning. _The SR1a's didn't hit me in the feels the same way the TCs did the first time I heard them, but they still dropped my jaw straight to the floor. The 3D soundstage, clarity, and imagining on these is flat out _nuts_. I also discovered they EQ absurdly well and it really helps bring out the low end punch. They could definitely use some tube love to take the edge off though and I suspect pre-amping through the WA33 EE JPS will yield ridiculous amounts of awesomeness.
> 
> A couple of hours in I wondered if these would be my "go-to's" instead of the TCs, but it is clear they are just...different. I finally understand why most folks here own both. Thanks for the recommendation. Wow, what an experience...



I can listen to the TC for hours. I borrowed my friend's Raal a while back and enjoyed it but got listening fatigue really fast (that was with the jotR tho). How do you fare with it (with hsa1b) for longer listening sessions?


----------



## ken6217

dmdm said:


> I'm more of a sausage guy lol. That came out weird.


Better out then in.


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 23, 2021)

Removed due to relevance


----------



## Stereolab42

stemiki said:


> HPA4 with Abyss great combination!


You are not kidding. First impression -- HPA4 plus Abyss 1.0 is horrifying. In a good way. It's like having some alien monster rip your head off. It's the most dynamic, forceful, and crystalline headphone stack I've ever heard. I was considering bringing up the subject again of Abyss AB-1266 1.0 vs Phi TC, but no. They got it right the first time for me. (Am I at least curious? Yes. But not $5k curious.)


----------



## DJJEZ

Thibking


Stereolab42 said:


> You are not kidding. First impression -- HPA4 plus Abyss 1.0 is horrifying. In a good way. It's like having some alien monster rip your head off. It's the most dynamic, forceful, and crystalline headphone stack I've ever heard. I was considering bringing up the subject again of Abyss AB-1266 1.0 vs Phi TC, but no. They got it right the first time for me. (Am I at least curious? Yes. But not $5k curious.)


You should be. The differences are meant to be pretty big. Just sell your Abyss 1.0.for them


----------



## littlej0e (Aug 16, 2021)

I've sponged so much information and recommendations from the people on this site that I figured It's high time I provide some of my own.

I present to you the "_Ghetto Pad_." It is my el cheapo, uber-ghetto, incredibly ugly, but shockingly effective comfort solution for headphones (see pics). I'm particularly sensitive to pressure on the top of my head and I've had to use this contraption with pretty much every pair of headphones I've used in the past 3 years, save for the Ether C Flows and SR1a. I plan to add some horizontal Velcro straps and use it in the same "suspended" configuration with the Abyss TCs as the stock strap and rubber O-rings. This provided a couple of notable benefits over the stock solution:

More comfortable. This is made from a 38mm (1 1/2 inch) thick memory foam bath mat custom molded to the top of my head and held to form with shaped plastic hair bands and gorilla glue. It's incredibly ghetto, but an absolute dream to wear. It distributes weight and pressure over the top of my head (specifically to the outsides and away from the center) much more evenly and effectively than anything else I've ever tried. This design is particularly useful with heavier HPs like the Abyss TCs or Audeze LCDs.
More stable. This helped dial in the fit of the TCs and make the "sweet spot" a bit less finicky and more repeatable. You don't have to worry about moving around quite as much either as the pad molds to the top of the head and isn't as loose or "bouncy" as the stock solution.
More adjustable. Tighten or loosen the horizontal Velcro straps to raise or lower the pad suspension along with the height of the ear cups.  If the pad ends is too thick and inhibits a proper fit in the suspended configuration, try using a fixed configuration instead by attaching it directly to the top of the metal chassis and adding another layer of foam as needed.
Affordable. All in, the materials will run you about 30 USD from Amazon. You should be able to make about 10 of these from that single purchase. Material list is below.
*Plastic Headbands:* https://www.amazon.com/Tinksky-Womens-Plastic-Headbands-Headwears/dp/B00ORCFZHK
*Memory Foam Bath Mat:* https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N9905UU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
*Velcro straps* (cut into three 6.5mm/.25inch wide strips approx. 215mm/8.5inches long): https://www.amazon.com/VELCRO-Brand...ords=velcro+cable+ties&qid=1616520763&sr=8-13
*Gorilla Glue: *https://www.amazon.com/Gorilla-Epox...1159&sprefix=gorilla+glue+epox,aps,192&sr=8-3

Hopefully this helps someone or at least inspires you to find your own solution. Also, if you are concerned with looking ridiculous I highly recommend passing on the Ghetto Pad (also, don't get the Raal SR1a's either. My wife just dubbed them the "Tie Fighters" and hasn't stopped snickering at me since).

Happy listening...

- lj


----------



## DJJEZ

littlej0e said:


> I've sponged so much information and recommendations from the people on this site that I figured It's high time I provide some of my own.
> 
> I present to you the "_Ghetto Pad_." It is my el cheapo, uber-ghetto, incredibly ugly, but shockingly effective comfort solution for headphones (see pics). I'm particularly sensitive to pressure on the top of my head and I've had to use this contraption with pretty much every pair of headphones I've used in the past 3 years, save for the Ether C Flows and now the SRA1b. I plan to add some horizontal Velcro straps and use them in the same "suspended" configuration with the Abyss TCs as the stock strap and rubber O-rings. This should provide a couple of notable benefits over the stock solution:
> 
> ...


How about a picture of it on your head


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 23, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> How about a picture of it on your head


Nice try, but d1ck pics are against the ToS on Head-fi...


----------



## Shahrose

littlej0e said:


> So...
> 
> I received my Raal SR1a + HSA-1b + Ribbon Silver 1028 cable last night and I've barely slept since. These things are absolutely _stunning. _The SR1a's didn't hit me in the feels the same way the TCs did the first time I heard them, but they still dropped my jaw straight to the floor. The 3D soundstage, clarity, and imagining on these is flat out _nuts_. I also discovered they EQ absurdly well and it really helps bring out the low end punch. They could definitely use some tube love to take the edge off though and I suspect pre-amping through the WA33 EE JPS will yield ridiculous amounts of awesomeness.
> 
> A couple of hours in I wondered if these would be my "go-to's" instead of the TCs, but it is clear they are just...different. I finally understand why most folks here own both. Thanks for the recommendation. Wow, what an experience...





littlej0e said:


> I can definitely see how they could be fatiguing and probably much more fatiguing than the TCs regardless of amplification. I find the sharp clarity and resolution can be a bit much on some tracks, especially those with high note synth. But I think running the SR1a's through a good tube amp would do wonders and likely take them to a whole new level.
> 
> I'm probably the wrong guy to comment on fatigue though. I get tremendous fatigue regardless of what I listen to due to the amount of focus required to listen to music in the first place. I have to take frequent breaks, say every 10 minutes or so. Otherwise it's too overwhelming.
> 
> ...



Great posts but would be better to share in the RAAL thread instead: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/raal-ribbon-headphones-srh1a.890603/


----------



## littlej0e

Shahrose said:


> Great posts but would be better to share in the RAAL thread instead: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/raal-ribbon-headphones-srh1a.890603/


Yeah, you're right. I'll delete and repost.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Mar 24, 2021)

Shahrose said:


> Great posts but would be better to share in the RAAL thread instead: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/raal-ribbon-headphones-srh1a.890603/


Why? He is clearly comparing the SR1As with the TCs.. and as a TC owner who is considering the Raals... I find his opinions relevant. I am not looking to be confrontational... But will he be kicked out of the SR1A thread for discussing the TCs? Not likely.

This is the 1266 thread... One should expect that in this thread, eventually all flagships will be compared to the TCs... Otherwise... this place will get very, very boring.

@littlej0e is relatively new here... And he has just started building a system most of us can only dream about. It has been a lot of fun for myself and others to experience/relive his excitement as if it were our own.

* Maybe I misunderstood your intentions... After all, even you posted a simple comparison to the SR1A in this thread... and no one asked you to take it elsewhere. You have obviously been on head-fi for a long time... Are you a moderator? I just don't understand why people who have not been active in threads... just pop in and presume to assert their authority... Sadly, it's been happening a lot recently.


----------



## jlbrach

I also see nothing wrong with discussing rival HP's in a thread..after all many of us own more than one HP and frankly I find I learn an awful lot listening to people who own competing gear


----------



## Shahrose

Agree about the comparisons being valuable. I simply wanted him to also post those in the RAAL thread.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Mar 24, 2021)

To be fair, sometimes manufacturers dislike talk of competing cans in threads. I have absolutely no problem with it, and in fact support such discussion. But, in the DAVE thread, for example, certain well known figures complained about discussion of competing dacs. It seemed strange to me, but I guess there’s politics in everything  

Though, Abyss hasn’t appeared to stifle discussion, so it’s probably all good.


----------



## MatW

Ciggavelli said:


> To be fair, sometimes manufacturers dislike talk of competing cans in threads. I have absolutely no problem with it, and in fact support such discussion. But, in the DAVE thread, for example, certain well known figures complained about discussion of competing dacs. It seemed strange to me, but I guess there’s politics in everything
> 
> Though, Abyss hasn’t appeared to stifle discussion, so it’s probably all good.


Mm, interesting. I'm relatively new, but I never got the impression that the brands 'owned' their threads. Rather, it's the community of users/owners/fans that collectively determine what gets discussed and what does not. Which is how it should be imo.


----------



## Litlgi74

Shahrose said:


> Agree about the comparisons being valuable. I simply wanted him to also post those in the RAAL thread.


Sorry... But you didn't say "also"... You said "instead"... 



Shahrose said:


> Great posts but would be better to share in the RAAL thread instead:



which led @littlej0e to delete his posts here.

It's a sad day when even opinions on hifi are getting censored.

Let the moderators moderate.


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> To be fair, sometimes manufacturers dislike talk of competing cans in threads. I have absolutely no problem with it, and in fact support such discussion. But, in the DAVE thread, for example, certain well known figures complained about discussion of competing dacs. It seemed strange to me, but I guess there’s politics in everything
> 
> Though, Abyss hasn’t appeared to stifle discussion, so it’s probably all good.


not sure how abyss or hifiman or audeze etc would have a say as to what we discuss or compare etc?


----------



## Ciggavelli

jlbrach said:


> not sure how abyss or hifiman or audeze etc would have a say as to what we discuss or compare etc?


They are "sponsors," so I dunno....

There doesn't seem to be any censoring by Abyss, Hifiman, or Audeze, but in some other threads (mainly the ZMF VC and DAVE threads), censorship has occurred by deleting posts and stopping discussion, etc.  This then appears to have led to a lot of community and self-censorship.


----------



## Litlgi74

Ciggavelli said:


> They are "sponsors," so I dunno....
> 
> There doesn't seem to be any censoring by Abyss, Hifiman, or Audeze, but in some other threads (mainly the ZMF VC and DAVE threads), censorship has occurred by deleting posts and stopping discussion, etc.  This then appears to have led to a lot of community and self-censorship.


I can understand this type of behavior happening on Twitter.. but on Head-fi??? It's really disgusting... And sad.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> They are "sponsors," so I dunno....
> 
> There doesn't seem to be any censoring by Abyss, Hifiman, or Audeze, but in some other threads (mainly the ZMF VC and DAVE threads), censorship has occurred by deleting posts and stopping discussion, etc.  This then appears to have led to a lot of community and self-censorship.


Except there has always been censorship. Head-Fi is a business and so are its brands and sponsors. Even within community grassroots and the wealth of resource that eventually sprouted outside of this space, Head-Fi and its overlords have banned, censored and limited the scope of criticism by their "competitors."


----------



## Ciggavelli (Mar 24, 2021)

Litlgi74 said:


> I can understand this type of behavior happening on Twitter.. but on Head-fi??? It's really disgusting... And sad.


The ZMF thread is crazy with the censorship.  A few posters discussed how they weren't happy with the quality of some of the VC headphones.  Everybody jumped on them, saying that they shouldn't be bringing complaints into the thread and they should have contacted ZMF first.  I thought that was crazy.  The thread is the perfect place to discuss complaints and issues.


----------



## Stereolab42

Ciggavelli said:


> They are "sponsors," so I dunno....
> 
> There doesn't seem to be any censoring by Abyss, Hifiman, or Audeze, but in some other threads (mainly the ZMF VC and DAVE threads), censorship has occurred by deleting posts and stopping discussion, etc.  This then appears to have led to a lot of community and self-censorship.


The beauty of the internet is that there are many forums on the same subject with many different standards. I consider Head-Fi to be one of the more polite areas of headphone discussion. If somebody doesn't like a particular product, they should feel free to say so, even in that product's thread. But don't harp on it; have your say and move on to something you like better. Sometimes one person or a group of people latch onto some perceived negative and endlessly whale on it to the extent that they crowd out discussion by those who appreciate the product. I don't think this forum is the place for that; go on Reddit and start a flame war about some perceived manufacturing sin that has zero effect on the sound.


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 24, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> The ZMF thread is crazy with the censorship.  A few posters discussed how they weren't happy with the quality of some of the VC headphones.  Everybody jumped on them, saying that they shouldn't be bringing complaints into the thread and they should have contacted ZMF first.  I thought that was crazy.  The thread is the perfect place to discuss complaints and issues.



Then that begs the question in my mind...where would be a good place to discuss things truly openly? 4chan - lol? Sounds like the only real answer would be a private message board. Otherwise, someone always gets butt hurt about something. I tried Reddit, but that was a troll-fest $h1t show (plus Reddit mods are the absolute worst).

 indeed


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> The ZMF thread is crazy with the censorship.  A few posters discussed how they weren't happy with the quality of some of the VC headphones.  Everybody jumped on them, saying that they shouldn't be bringing complaints into the thread and they should have contacted ZMF first.  I thought that was crazy.  The thread is the perfect place to discuss complaints and issues.


if people cannot discuss issues, complaints and critiques of products here in forums dedicated to the product then we have a problem and this becomes a propaganda forum not discussion forum...fortunately I havent encountered it...I have had issues with other member lol but not manufacturers!


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 24, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> Except there has always been censorship. Head-Fi is a business and so are its brands and sponsors. Even within community grassroots and the wealth of resource that eventually sprouted outside of this space, Head-Fi and its overlords have banned, censored and limited the scope of criticism by their "competitors."



I understand our discussions here are essentially the content generation arm of a Head-fi monetization structure. That doesn't upset me in the least as the trade-offs are a smooth user experience and a centralized group of highly knowledgeable, experienced, and passionate audio folks. But if censorship actively takes place in "vendor" forums (in a non-troll manner) to control opinions I'm out.



jlbrach said:


> if people cannot discuss issues, complaints and critiques of products here in forums dedicated to the product then we have a problem and this becomes a propaganda forum not discussion forum...fortunately I havent encountered it...I have had issues with other member lol but not manufacturers!



This is quite heartening to hear. Hopefully, that never becomes the case!


----------



## paradoxper

littlej0e said:


> I understand our discussions here are essentially the content generation arm of a Head-fi monetization structure. That doesn't upset me in the least as the trade-offs are a smooth user experience and a centralized group of highly knowledgeable, experienced, and passionate audio folks. But if censorship actively takes place in "vendor" forums (in a non-troll manner) to control opinions I'm out.


The condition of competition, politics, ego, money. 

Censorship takes place at all levels of these platforms for assorted reasons of culture.

Try posting on the case forum, you'll likely be banned. 

Head-Fi is not all good nor all bad.


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 24, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> The condition of competition, politics, ego, money.
> 
> Censorship takes place at all levels of these platforms for assorted reasons of culture.
> 
> ...



Yikes...

All the more reason to form an actual community and simply use Head-fi as a club house, but not as the community itself.


----------



## Orlok (Mar 24, 2021)

Greetings! Newbie here and I've been a long-time lurker but finally decided I should join and get acquainted with fellow enthusiasts who provide such helpful info and insights. Just got the word from Abyss my TC should leave in about a week so, obviously, quite excited. I have the Chord stack with the SR1a and LCD-4. I also have the LCDi4 and JH Audio Layla custom IEM for mobile usage. Hoping and feeling fairly confident that the TC will fit right in and even become my main "axe", so to speak. I'm a guitar player of 40+ years and run a small high-end electric guitar company so I am rather picky about tone, sound and gear. Here are a few shots of my current setup.

Having read about how "power hungry" the TC is, I ordered adapters to use the TT2's XLR outs and the TToby's speaker taps as well. I'm hoping that these options will be sufficient enough so I don't feel like I need to get a separate headphone amp like the Formula S and Powerman combo - at least not until sometime next year as I've splurged enough for this year!


----------



## Litlgi74

Orlok said:


> Greetings! Newbie here and I've been a long-time lurker but finally decided I should join and get acquainted with all who provide such helpful info and insights from fellow enthusiasts. Just got the word from Abyss my TC should leave in about a week so, obviously, quite excited. I have the Chord stack with the SR1a and LCD-4. I also have the LCDi4 and JH Audio Layla custom IEM for mobile usage. Hoping and feeling fairly confident that the TC will fit right in and even become my main "axe", so to speak. I'm a guitar player of 40+ years and run a small high-end electric guitar company so I am rather picky about tone, sound and gear. Here are a few shots of my current setup.
> 
> Having read about how "power hungry" the TC is, I ordered adapters to use the TT2's XLR outs and the TToby's speaker taps as well. I'm hoping that these options will be sufficient enough so I don't feel like I need to get a separate headphone amp like the Formula S and Powerman combo - at least until sometime next year as I've splurged enough for this year!


Welcome to the Abyss family... You are going to love the TCs!

I see you have the A500s... I ordered a pair as well.. won't be delivered till the middle of May.


----------



## Orlok

Litlgi74 said:


> Welcome to the Abyss family... You are going to love the TCs!
> 
> I see you have the A500s... I ordered a pair as well.. won't be delivered till the middle of May.


Thank you! Obviously, very excited. Reminds me of a few decades ago when I ordered a high-end tricked-out custom electric guitar and was waiting in agonizing anticipation. Haha. 

Actually, those speakers are the passive S400 and driven by the Chord TToby when it's not driving the SR1a. Sounds great and huge for their size. Every now and then, "a speaker break" from headphones is a good thing.


----------



## Litlgi74

Orlok said:


> Thank you! Obviously, very excited. Reminds me of a few decades ago when I ordered a high-end tricked-out custom electric guitar and was waiting in agonizing anticipation. Haha.
> 
> Actually, those speakers are the passive S400 and driven by the Chord TToby when it's not driving the SR1a. Sounds great and huge for their size. Every now and then, "a speaker break" from headphones is a good thing.


I stand corrected... 

Did you splurge and get the super conductor cable as well?


----------



## Shahrose

Orlok said:


> Greetings! Newbie here and I've been a long-time lurker but finally decided I should join and get acquainted with fellow enthusiasts who provide such helpful info and insights. Just got the word from Abyss my TC should leave in about a week so, obviously, quite excited. I have the Chord stack with the SR1a and LCD-4. I also have the LCDi4 and JH Audio Layla custom IEM for mobile usage. Hoping and feeling fairly confident that the TC will fit right in and even become my main "axe", so to speak. I'm a guitar player of 40+ years and run a small high-end electric guitar company so I am rather picky about tone, sound and gear. Here are a few shots of my current setup.
> 
> Having read about how "power hungry" the TC is, I ordered adapters to use the TT2's XLR outs and the TToby's speaker taps as well. I'm hoping that these options will be sufficient enough so I don't feel like I need to get a separate headphone amp like the Formula S and Powerman combo - at least not until sometime next year as I've splurged enough for this year!



A lot to like about this setup. Nice.


----------



## DJJEZ

Orlok said:


> Greetings! Newbie here and I've been a long-time lurker but finally decided I should join and get acquainted with fellow enthusiasts who provide such helpful info and insights. Just got the word from Abyss my TC should leave in about a week so, obviously, quite excited. I have the Chord stack with the SR1a and LCD-4. I also have the LCDi4 and JH Audio Layla custom IEM for mobile usage. Hoping and feeling fairly confident that the TC will fit right in and even become my main "axe", so to speak. I'm a guitar player of 40+ years and run a small high-end electric guitar company so I am rather picky about tone, sound and gear. Here are a few shots of my current setup.
> 
> Having read about how "power hungry" the TC is, I ordered adapters to use the TT2's XLR outs and the TToby's speaker taps as well. I'm hoping that these options will be sufficient enough so I don't feel like I need to get a separate headphone amp like the Formula S and Powerman combo - at least not until sometime next year as I've splurged enough for this year!



Welcome. I'm sure I've seen your setup on Facebook. I'm also awaiting my 1266TC to be made and will use the  rear xlrs of the TT2/M-scaler as well until the upgrade itch strikes again


----------



## JLoud

I owned all three you mentioned, TC, Raal, LCD4, at the same time. I would say you will have all your bases covered. Wonderfully complimentary trio.


----------



## Orlok

JLoud said:


> I owned all three you mentioned, TC, Raal, LCD4, at the same time. I would say you will have all your bases covered. Wonderfully complimentary trio.


Hey, thanks for the feedback. This is very reassuring to know from someone who has owned all three at the same time. Based on all the research I've done, these three did seem perfectly complementary with a smooth overlap between them in some areas. I already have an itch for the ZMF Vérité closed to make it a primo quartet but it seems totally "unnecessary" at the moment.


----------



## Orlok (Mar 24, 2021)

Litlgi74 said:


> I stand corrected...
> 
> Did you splurge and get the super conductor cable as well?


Nah, just couldn't get myself to get the SC and wouldn't have even if I had the funds. Going with the Moon Audio Silver Dragon with adapters for TT2's XLR outs and the TToby's speaker taps so I can try both. I've had pretty good experiences with the Dragon cables and they are reasonably priced so I just go with their cables by default for upgrades over stock cables. I have this rule for myself to not spend more than 15 to 20% max (depending on the length) on cables of the value of the headphones or major components like DACs and amps, etc. Spending 60% of the value of the headphone on a set of cables seems outrageous. If I had that money to spend, I'd use it towards the Formula S or get another headphone like the ZMF Vérité.

I know the subject of expensive cables can get controversial but my thought is that there's a limit to how much the cables can improve the sound. I totally understand the law of diminishing returns. Heck, I work in the high-end "boutique" guitar industry and have been in it for 30+ years now. I owned a retail boutique shop selling custom electric guitars that ranged from $2K to well over $5K and the same for high-end tube amplifiers. I also sold guitar effects pedals and effects processors that start at $200 and go up to $3~4K. I have a pretty good idea of how the high-end business works.

I also sold instrument cables that range from $50 to well over $1K and did a lot of A/B shootouts. My favorite was around $200 for a 15' guitar cable from a company called Evidence Audio. Most cables that guitar players buy at Guitar Center are in the $20~25 range and the "high-end" there would be the Mogami Gold in the $50 range. I know that there are differences but it's always a crap shoot and the value/performance proposition is always all over the place. I go for a fairly neutral sound and don't want cables coloring the guitar's sound.

But some players like it a little dark and some players like it bright based on what types of guitars and pickups they use, ex. Fender Strat type of guitar with single-coil pickups and the Gibson Les Paul type with humbucker pickups. I prefer something very neutral to let the guitar's natural sound come through as clearly and purely as possible and then tweak the tone and overdrive controls on the amps. I found that I didn't really care for any of the cables that cost many hundreds or over $1K but some guitar players (usually the doctor and lawyer types playing in their special soundproofed guitar rooms or garages) swore by them.

Now I see that this high-end cable thing is exponentially greater in the audiophile world - which I suspected, of course, before delving into it over the last few years. I'm just not going to spend thousands on a set of cables. I know there are good cables and there are bad and that cables also color the sound but, in my opinion and in the big scheme of things, I feel the overall effect of what they contribute is sometimes overblown and overrated when compared to the major components like DACs, amps, headphones and speakers. I'll spend $200 on a good quality power cable like the Audioquest NRG-Z3 and another $200 on a Furman power conditioner but I just don't see myself spending $5~10K on stuff like that either, even if I won the lottery and had money to burn. Of course, as usual, YMMV and I'm not going to make fun of people who do spend that kind of money on cables. More power to them if that makes them happy. It's what I learned in the guitar industry: "All that matters is that it works _for you."_


----------



## Orlok

DJJEZ said:


> Welcome. I'm sure I've seen your setup on Facebook. I'm also awaiting my 1266TC to be made and will use the  rear xlrs of the TT2/M-scaler as well until the upgrade itch strikes again


Thanks! Really happy to join the Abyss family. Yeah, you know that itch will come again and this forum will only expedite that process!


----------



## Litlgi74

Orlok said:


> Thanks! Really happy to join the Abyss family. Yeah, you know that itch will come again and this forum will only expedite that process!


If you ever need help or just someone to listen... We have an AA program here on Head-Fi.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audiophiles-anonymous.955274/


----------



## Tachyon88

@Orlok Buchardt S400 ! I'm listening to mine now. I got the black ones. Nice setup.


----------



## Orlok

Litlgi74 said:


> If you ever need help or just someone to listen... We have an AA program here on Head-Fi.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audiophiles-anonymous.955274/


Ah, I'll be attending this weekly meeting for sure and share my struggles. I dealt with it for decades with high-end electric guitars, amps and related gizmos. Here are photos of my past addiction. You can clearly see that I've traded this addiction for the severe addiction I have now. My wife has resigned to the fact that it's hopeless. Yes, I need help!


----------



## SalR406

You know, it makes me think...  I would trade all of my stereo gear for a little actual musical talent!


----------



## Orlok

SalR406 said:


> You know, it makes me think...  I would trade all of my stereo gear for a little actual musical talent!


Playing a musical instrument is hard. There were times when I practiced 6~8 hours per day while going to music school. I wasn't a casual hobbyist or player and the standards I shot for were high back in the 80's: Yngwie Malmsteen, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai and all these natural monster guitar players. Then I got into jazz and fusion masters like Pat Metheny and Allan Holdsworth and the bar was even higher. I realized that I can practice for 10 hours per day for a thousand years and I would still never get anywhere near their level of proficiency on the instrument and musicianship. So I gave up my hope of becoming a full-time musician and got into the business of making and selling guitars. Glad I did or I'd be divorced and in a ghetto apartment using some $200 headphone right now!


----------



## MacedonianHero (Mar 24, 2021)

dmdm said:


> I spoke to the head designer at bryston and he said the bha1 has plenty of power for the tcs. That's not the issue, just my preference in headphone sound signatures. I enjoy the tcs, but they're just not my favorite.
> 
> This is from Mike Pickett at Bryston to me:
> "The combination of low impedance and low sensitivity will make the Abyss 'phones difficult to drive, but should have enough power to do so without stress. You may need to switch the unit to high gain mode to avoid having to turn it all the way up. The BHA1 still has power to spare at 3:00 on the dial, but that is definitely working it pretty hard."


Sorry, definitely my experience with the BHA-1 and its 2 W into 32 ohms isn't ideally enough to power these amazing headphones to sound close to their best. I'd suggest some A-B comparisons with more capable amplifiers and the differences are quite apparent almost immediately. Then there's the brighter/thinner sound signature of the BHA-1 that doesn't work well with these headphones. Much better amplifier for say the Meze Empyreans (tonally and power wise).


----------



## Orlok

Regarding amplification for the TC, has anyone here tried using speaker taps from speaker power amps? I know that many Susvara owners do this but curious how many have tried with the TC and what the results were like. I'm planning to try with the TToby I have besides using the TT2's XLR outs.


----------



## Shahrose

Orlok said:


> Regarding amplification for the TC, has anyone here tried using speaker taps from speaker power amps? I know that many Susvara owners do this but curious how many have tried with the TC and what the results were like. I'm planning to try with the TToby I have besides using the TT2's XLR outs.



Yes, and they scaled very nicely. Search the thread, I recall seeing some informative posts on it. 
IMO they benefit from speaker amps almost as much as the Susvara.


----------



## paradoxper

Orlok said:


> Regarding amplification for the TC, has anyone here tried using speaker taps from speaker power amps? I know that many Susvara owners do this but curious how many have tried with the TC and what the results were like. I'm planning to try with the TToby I have besides using the TT2's XLR outs.


This is the way to go. I could maybe name 12 quite competent headamps and maybe only five of them can compete against power amps in overall quality.


----------



## jlbrach

JLoud said:


> I owned all three you mentioned, TC, Raal, LCD4, at the same time. I would say you will have all your bases covered. Wonderfully complimentary trio.


my trio is the sr1a,susvara and the abyss tc and I will be damned if I can tell you which is best...lately I have leaned to the sr1a but in truth it seems to be whichever the last one I listened to


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> Regarding amplification for the TC, has anyone here tried using speaker taps from speaker power amps? I know that many Susvara owners do this but curious how many have tried with the TC and what the results were like. I'm planning to try with the TToby I have besides using the TT2's XLR outs.





Shahrose said:


> Yes, and they scaled very nicely. Search the thread, I recall seeing some informative posts on it.
> IMO they benefit from speaker amps almost as much as the Susvara.


Here’s the search...
https://www.head-fi.org/search/4539710/?q=Speaker+amp&t=post&c[thread]=666765&o=relevance

I have a Chord 2650 so I’ll be curious to see how @Orlok makes out with the TToby.  Here’s one post from the search with a response from Joe Skubinski:
Post in thread 'The JPS Labs: Abyss AB-1266 Impressions Thread'
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-11710427


----------



## Litlgi74

Orlok said:


> Regarding amplification for the TC, has anyone here tried using speaker taps from speaker power amps? I know that many Susvara owners do this but curious how many have tried with the TC and what the results were like. I'm planning to try with the TToby I have besides using the TT2's XLR outs.


A bunch of us use speaker amps.. I use A Simaudio 600i, others use Acoustic Research, Pass Labs, Anthem STR,  Etc.

I use a speaker amp for dual purposes... Headphones, speakers, and for my upcoming Raal purchase.


----------



## Orlok (Mar 24, 2021)

Shahrose said:


> Yes, and they scaled very nicely. Search the thread, I recall seeing some informative posts on it.
> IMO they benefit from speaker amps almost as much as the Susvara.


Thanks. Just spent a good amount of time going through the thread on the subjects of "power" and "amp". Seems I'll be getting my money's worth out of the TToby driving the Buchardt S400 speakers, the SR1a and soon the TC. I actually had _not_ drawn up the plan this way.

I got the S400 from a friend who wanted to upgrade to the integrated A500 speaker system. I didn't even have a power amp as I felt I was set with the HMS and TT2 combo for the LCD-4 but I couldn't resist the offer for these speakers. So, I searched for a power amp in the reasonable price range (roughly $1500) and, after a few furious days of research, decided on the Parasound A21+. It sounded good but I couldn't help but get this nagging feeling that something was missing and that I'm just not doing the HMS | TT2 "proper" justice.

I returned the Parasound and started the search again and thought that the Mytek Brooklyn Amp+ would be ideal. So I contacted Drew at Moon Audio about it and he said that he had no idea when it will become available and suggested I should just get the TToby and be done with it to get the most out of the HMS | TT2. And, I was like, "Man, I wasn't planning on spending something like $6K on a whole speaker system when I'm really a head-fi guy!" After a few days, I decided and said, "Screw it, let's go for broke! You live only once." So in comes the TToby and, yes, it just utterly blows away the Parasound.

Then along comes the SR1a into the picture when I'm trying to decide between the TC or the Susvara to complement my beloved LCD-4. I had a Susvara on loan for a few months from a friend who had to go abroad for some family matter so I had ample time with it and I was very, very close to pulling the trigger but the thought of the TC in the back of my mind wouldn't let me do it because I knew I could get one but not both. The Susvara is really, really nice but I dunno. It didn't wow me enough to make me shell out $6K and probably another $1K for a better cable.

So, the SR1a now starts becoming more and more attractive for that hyper-resolving, expansive soundstage and bright sound signature headphone that would be like the mega version of the HD800 S I used and loved for almost 5 years - completely opposite of the LCD-4. And, what do you know? I have the TToby so the amplification part is already taken care of and it's a great amp that is being _totally_ underused since I listen to speakers very sparingly. In comes the SR1a which matches up beautifully with the full Chord stack and I am utterly delighted.

Now, I go for the big boy - the prized superstar free agent I've been eying for years. As a sports fan, I liken building a rig to assembling a championship baseball or football team. It has to be a "team" of complementary players who play nice with each other. They each have a role to play and they shouldn't overlap in capabilities. And my budget is like a team's salary cap. I can't go out and sign every superstar out there. I'm not the Yankees or the Dodgers of the audiophile league. I'm more like the Cubs or the Astros, maybe. So I couldn't bring in Susvara because I could get two but not all three.

And now comes the TC and I have the coveted superstar ace of the pitching staff. And what do you know? I have the star catcher that I didn't think I needed and paid a lot for. Now the team looks rock solid and 2021 is going to be a banner season.


----------



## Frankie D (Mar 24, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> To be fair, sometimes manufacturers dislike talk of competing cans in threads. I have absolutely no problem with it, and in fact support such discussion. But, in the DAVE thread, for example, certain well known figures complained about discussion of competing dacs. It seemed strange to me, but I guess there’s politics in everything
> 
> Though, Abyss hasn’t appeared to stifle discussion, so it’s probably all good.





Stereolab42 said:


> The beauty of the internet is that there are many forums on the same subject with many different standards. I consider Head-Fi to be one of the more polite areas of headphone discussion. If somebody doesn't like a particular product, they should feel free to say so, even in that product's thread. But don't harp on it; have your say and move on to something you like better. Sometimes one person or a group of people latch onto some perceived negative and endlessly whale on it to the extent that they crowd out discussion by those who appreciate the product. I don't think this forum is the place for that; go on Reddit and start a flame war about some perceived manufacturing sin that has zero effect on the sound.


I totally disagree.  If there is an issue with the product it should be discussed on the thread for it.  On the Focal Utopia thread issues with the drivers have been brought up and Focal increased their warranty.  I agree we do not want trolls, but I come here for the truth, good and bad.  Nothing is ever perfect.  Tks.


----------



## Orlok

Got the word from Abyss that my TC should ship in about a week. The Silver Dragons just arrived and the TT2 XLR and TToby speaker tap adapters should arrive in a few days. Ah, the anticipation...


----------



## number1sixerfan

Beautiful cables. I really enjoy Silver Dragon cables, even if just for the quality and feel alone.

I too am reading up a lot on the speaker amp route. I'm potentially looking for one for the Raal SR1a, TC and* Susvara. It's quite a bit daunting with all of the options and trying to ensure it plays optimally with each. The most annoying part is that it's pretty easy to buy and test (and sell) headphones & DACs.. for me, dealing with the sale of amps is just annoying lol. The dealer I have a great relationship with is in a different state, not sure if demoing would be an option really.. but I guess I should check. 

If anyone has found great general purpose amps that works with multiple headphones mentioned really well, I'd love to hear what they are. But the above recent posts are very helpful!


----------



## paradoxper

Orlok said:


> Got the word from Abyss that my TC should ship in about a week. The Silver Dragons just arrived and the TT2 XLR and TToby speaker tap adapters should arrive in a few days. Ah, the anticipation...


Buckle up!


----------



## kamlam

Guys I’m thinking about selling my TCs. I’m not sure yet but the thought has entered my mind and I’m afraid it won’t leave.


----------



## ra990

kamlam said:


> Guys I’m thinking about selling my TCs. I’m not sure yet but the thought has entered my mind and I’m afraid it won’t leave.


Why? I once sold them and then regretted it. Ended up buying another pair. Don't do it, there's nothing quite like them.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

kamlam said:


> Guys I’m thinking about selling my TCs. I’m not sure yet but the thought has entered my mind and I’m afraid it won’t leave.


What triggered the thought ? Is it the comfort ?


----------



## JLoud

I had a fleeting thought about selling mine a few weeks ago. Decided to sit down and just listen and not analyze the music. Their not going anywhere. 😁


----------



## number1sixerfan

PortableAudioLover said:


> What triggered the thought ? Is it the comfort ?



Comfort is the reason I almost decided to sell mine about a month ago. Have to say, very glad I didn't. Been listening to them a lot lately and there truly is just no other headphone like them (despite 1 or two faults). Also not saying they're the best or even my favorite headphone, just glad I didn't pull the trigger


----------



## PortableAudioLover

number1sixerfan said:


> Comfort is the reason I almost decided to sell mine about a month ago. Have to say, very glad I didn't. Been listening to them a lot lately and there truly is just no other headphone like them (despite 1 or two faults). Also not saying they're the best or even my favorite headphone, just glad I didn't pull the trigger


Same; once I replaced the o-ring to a bigger size, they are very very close to a perfect pair of headphones.


----------



## bagofolives

I got used to no clamp to the point that usually my point of discomfort from longer listening sessions on other headphones is the clamp before anything else.


----------



## kamlam

Well soon I’m moving into an environment that would better suit closed backs.


----------



## number1sixerfan

kamlam said:


> Well soon I’m moving into an environment that would better suit closed backs.



Which is totally fine and makes sense. There's a few really good closed backs out there. Don't mind us all, a few of us have been there at some point for comfort and felt inclined to stop you if that was the reason lol


----------



## mammal

kamlam said:


> Well soon I’m moving into an environment that would better suit closed backs.


Abyss has hinted on their YouTube channel that they are working on a closed pair, guessing a sibling to Diana. Something you can look forward to perhaps?


----------



## kamlam

number1sixerfan said:


> Which is totally fine and makes sense. There's a few really good closed backs out there. Don't mind us all, a few of us have been there at some point for comfort and felt inclined to stop you if that was the reason lol


What closed backs would you recommend?


----------



## MatW (Mar 26, 2021)

kamlam said:


> What closed backs would you recommend?


If your need for closed backs is temporary I would hold on to the TC for later.

With closed backs, I chose the ZMF Verite Closed, Audeze XC, and Sony MDR-Z1R. I like all three of these. If I could keep only one... Maybe the XC, but I'm listening to them now, so they have an unfair advantage ...  Need to use these with Audeze EQ settings though. In Roon for example. Makes it a very different headphone.

EDIT: now listening with the VC... I can't choose...


----------



## jlbrach

the first HP I ever bought was XC...I think the focal stellia is dramatically better but I suppose it should be being more expensive and more recent...


----------



## MatW

I owned the Stellia but I didn't like how it performed with metal. Genres matter in this hobby. And taste of course. Which is personal.


----------



## Gadget67

jlbrach said:


> the first HP I ever bought was XC...I think the focal stellia is dramatically better but I suppose it should be being more expensive and more recent...


Big Stellia fan here as well.  I also own the Sony MDR-Z1R (also nice) but the Stellia tops that.  Very close second to my Utopia I’m my opinion.


----------



## Gadget67

MatW said:


> I owned the Stellia but I didn't like how it performed with metal. Genres matter in this hobby. And taste of course. Which is personal.


I can see that; that’s when I drag out the Sony if I need to use a closed back headphone.  I’m really getting antsy waiting for the TC though!


----------



## MatW

Gadget67 said:


> I can see that; that’s when I drag out the Sony if I need to use a closed back headphone.  I’m really getting antsy waiting for the TC though!


You're in for a treat!


----------



## Gadget67

MatW said:


> You're in for a treat!


God, I hope so; I’m flying blind here and relying on trusted members and reviewers!


----------



## tkam

The VC are my favorite closed headphone by a pretty wide margin over the Stelia.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Gadget67 said:


> God, I hope so; I’m flying blind here and relying on trusted members and reviewers!


I don’t want to over hype it (If that's even possible), but you’re gonna be blown away. A negative of that is most other headphones will sound bad in comparison. The TCs only flaw in my opinion is the fit. If things don’t sound amazing to you, keep adjusting the headphone, rotation of the ear pads, and angle.  Once you have it all fitted nicely, you’re in for an amazing experience


----------



## JLoud

I second the recommendation of taking the time to find the right fit. Makes all the difference with the TC.


----------



## MatW

The new headband and the right size O rings are crucial. (Abyss should provide multiple sizes imo). If you have that settled you're almost there in my experience.


----------



## Gadget67

Ciggavelli said:


> I don’t want to over hype it (If that's even possible), but you’re gonna be blown away. A negative of that is most other headphones will sound bad in comparison. The TCs only flaw in my opinion is the fit. If things don’t sound amazing to you, keep adjusting the headphone, rotation of the ear pads, and angle.  Once you have it all fitted nicely, you’re in for an amazing experience





JLoud said:


> I second the recommendation of taking the time to find the right fit. Makes all the difference with the TC.





MatW said:


> The new headband and the right size O rings are crucial. (Abyss should provide multiple sizes imo). If you have that settled you're almost there in my experience.


Now I’m just waiting for my chief enabler to chime in as well (you listening @ra990?).  I’ve definitely been reading about fitting and how important that is.  I can pick up O rings in other sizes to experiment with as well.  My head is a pretty average size/shape so I’m not anticipating any significant issues/problems but I can always come here for help!


----------



## Orlok (Mar 26, 2021)

Mine should arrive soon and, honestly, I'm not concerned about the fit and getting the sound right as I had to go through a very peculiar process of getting everything just right with the SR1a. It took a few days of fidgeting with the bands and the angles of the drivers but, once dialed in and I added the ZMF CoPilot pad, it actually surpassed my already-sky-high expectations in comfort as well as sound. I expect it to be easier with the 1266 TC. I've watched all the setup and "tuning" vids from Abyss and other users and it all seems pretty straightforward. But it will definitely be somewhat of a hassle when having to show it off to someone else with a head size that is totally different from mine to make sure he/she hears what I'm hearing!


----------



## number1sixerfan

kamlam said:


> What closed backs would you recommend?



VC would be at the top of my list. Once the pandemic is over, I'll try the Focal Stellia as well. If it sounds anything like the Utopia, it should be fun. But the VC comes almost close to the much more expensive TOTL headphones, I'd at least give it a try.


----------



## techboyjv

Hi everyone! I recently got my 1266 Phi TC. I am happy to finally join the club.  I joined this hobby 7 years ago on this site and purchased my first real “audiophile” headphone, the ever-popular V-MODA M100. I still remember having the cliche “looking through a new pair of glasses” moment and being awed at the ability to hear the music clearly. I thought I wouldn’t be spending any more money, which was as good as it gets (LOL). Either way, as my bank account permitted, I started moving up, buying new gear, and taking my time finding cans that fit my taste. Joining the hobby helped me appreciate music more and the finer details in life. I learned to value the details in the track, the emotional energy, and the expression of the artist. I discovered new artists, saw many different live shows, and even refined my own musical abilities.

However, recently with the whole world kind of sucking, that annoying itch (I am sure we are all familiar with), wanting the next hit of that sweet audio gear got the better of me. I yearned for the energy I felt at concerts, the next-level audio experience. After a lot of lurking in the forums and DM'ing some of you awesome people, the stars aligned and I finally picked up the TC. Once I plugged it in, damn, the TC did deliver. I’d never thought I would ever get to experience something amazing as the TC. Music always has been a joy in my life, and to really experience it at this level is truly spectacular. Never before I had audio that made me feel so enveloped in the presence of the artist, letting the visceral experience wash over you. I thought I hit diminishing returns, but man, I was wrong, I still had moments where I heard something new in my beloved tracks. I just had moments where my jaw was open like, is this for real. As a person who loves tinkering with sound to my taste and an avid believer in EQ, the 1266 TC felt like it was made for me. Overall, having the TC in my collection has made my days a bit sweeter, nothing more I can ask for. My wallet still hates me though but it will recover (one day).

Bravo to the Abyss team for such a fantastic masterpiece of engineering. I can feel the passion and quality in this set of cans. I can see they care for their customer base and products. It is nice to support the family-run business from near where I am from. I apologize if I am a bit emotional, I just heard one of my favorite pieces, and I am having a moment. I thought I could share my stream of thoughts with this community of fellow headphone nerds


----------



## DJJEZ (Mar 26, 2021)

techboyjv said:


> Hi everyone! I recently got my 1266 Phi TC. I am happy to finally join the club.  I joined this hobby 7 years ago on this site and purchased my first real “audiophile” headphone, the ever-popular V-MODA M100. I still remember having the cliche “looking through a new pair of glasses” moment and being awed at the ability to hear the music clearly. I thought I wouldn’t be spending any more money, which was as good as it gets (LOL). Either way, as my bank account permitted, I started moving up, buying new gear, and taking my time finding cans that fit my taste. Joining the hobby helped me appreciate music more and the finer details in life. I learned to value the details in the track, the emotional energy, and the expression of the artist. I discovered new artists, saw many different live shows, and even refined my own musical abilities.
> 
> However, recently with the whole world kind of sucking, that annoying itch (I am sure we are all familiar with), wanting the next hit of that sweet audio gear got the better of me. I yearned for the energy I felt at concerts, the next-level audio experience. After a lot of lurking in the forums and DM'ing some of you awesome people, the stars aligned and I finally picked up the TC. Once I plugged it in, damn, the TC did deliver. I’d never thought I would ever get to experience something amazing as the TC. Music always has been a joy in my life, and to really experience it at this level is truly spectacular. Never before I had audio that made me feel so enveloped in the presence of the artist, letting the visceral experience wash over you. I thought I hit diminishing returns, but man, I was wrong, I still had moments where I heard something new in my beloved tracks. I just had moments where my jaw was open like, is this for real. As a person who loves tinkering with sound to my taste and an avid believer in EQ, the 1266 TC felt like it was made for me. Overall, having the TC in my collection has made my days a bit sweeter, nothing more I can ask for. My wallet still hates me though but it will recover (one day).
> 
> Bravo to the Abyss team for such a fantastic masterpiece of engineering. I can feel the passion and quality in this set of cans. I can see they care for their customer base and products. It is nice to support the family-run business from near where I am from. I apologize if I am a bit emotional, I just heard one of my favorite pieces, and I am having a moment. I thought I could share my stream of thoughts with this community of fellow headphone nerds


Awesome post thanks for sharing..what amp and dac are you running with the abyss?


----------



## techboyjv

DJJEZ said:


> Awesome post thanks for sharing..what amp and dac are you running with the abyss?


I am currently running the Benchmark HPA4 (currently auditioning) and SMSL SP400 with the RME ADI-2 FS. I recently got the SP400 for my work desk and it does a really great job for its price and size, very similar to the HPA4 sound. I am looking into other compact-ish solid states, mainly for the size and less heat dissipation since I do most of my listening at my desk and bed. Although I prefer a warmer sound signature, I really like that analytical, clean sound, I am such a sucker for great detail. I like to add some eq for fun. I heard the GSX Mk2, mini and formula S has great synergy. I may go with the Headamps for their size and versatility. However, I feel like once I settle down I will probably invest in the WA33. I tend to use my Schitt Loki tone equalizer for some fun, I am amazed how much I can push the TC, the low end is unreal.


----------



## MatW

Orlok said:


> But it will definitely be somewhat of a hassle when having to show it off to someone else with a head size that is totally different from mine to make sure he/she hears what I'm hearing!


Yes. Sometimes you just want to share the experience with loved ones, but it's not as straightforward as other headphones. It is even more tricky with in-ears though!


----------



## BrowChan

techboyjv said:


> I am currently running the Benchmark HPA4 (currently auditioning) and SMSL SP400 with the RME ADI-2 FS. I recently got the SP400 for my work desk and it does a really great job for its price and size, very similar to the HPA4 sound. I am looking into other compact-ish solid states, mainly for the size and less heat dissipation since I do most of my listening at my desk and bed. Although I prefer a warmer sound signature, I really like that analytical, clean sound, I am such a sucker for great detail. I like to add some eq for fun. I heard the GSX Mk2, mini and formula S has great synergy. I may go with the Headamps for their size and versatility. However, I feel like once I settle down I will probably invest in the WA33. I tend to use my Schitt Loki tone equalizer for some fun, I am amazed how much I can push the TC, the low end is unreal.


Did you find the Schitt to affect the sound quality negatively after EQ? Also, how much bass can you crank up before you notice clipping?

For fun, I tried cranking up bass quite high through *digital *EQ, but always noticed clipping/distortion. This issue I never had with the LCD-2C, which took EQ like a damn champion, provided I gave enough power and adjusted the in-built volume. Though, it was Hasta La Vista Sound Quality, Timbre, & Tonality, lol.


----------



## simorag (Mar 27, 2021)

In a rather melancholic mood today, beautifully lulled by my beloved TC ...

A nostalgic, ethnically rooted yet multi-cultural essay. With Alta Marea the AB-1266 projects a big, atmospheric soundstage with spectacular instrument layering, how palpable are the percussions at the opening of the track! Nataša vocals are warm, sensuous.





This is a tonally very rich and smooth sounding record, with a peculiar piano sound due to the 1899 Bechstein character, much softer and diffusely sounding than most modern concert-hall cannons.

With the TC, the spatial placement of the instruments is amazingly straightforward, and the finest details of the – slightly recessed - viola part , are, while obvious, nicely blended in the score.





An enveloping electronic soundstage mixed with string instruments, minimalistic production, very nordic-sounding. Listening to the 2nd track at decently high volume and wondering how many headphones are able to present the sub-bass layer in such a physically involving yet clean way, while keeping immaculate overall transparency, spaciouness and readability.





Intimistic, emotionally disturbing, but in a sweet and beautiful way. The 2nd track is especially enjoyable through the TC, it makes it easy to lose (and loose) oneself in a labyrinth of disjoint sounds, then finally brought home by Mark’s haunting vocals.


----------



## Litlgi74

BrowChan said:


> Did you find the Schitt to affect the sound quality negatively after EQ? Also, how much bass can you crank up before you notice clipping?


I am interested in this as well.


----------



## techboyjv (Mar 27, 2021)

BrowChan said:


> Did you find the Schitt to affect the sound quality negatively after EQ? Also, how much bass can you crank up before you notice clipping?
> 
> For fun, I tried cranking up bass quite high through *digital *EQ, but always noticed clipping/distortion. This issue I never had with the LCD-2C, which took EQ like a damn champion, provided I gave enough power and adjusted the in-built volume. Though, it was Hasta La Vista Sound Quality, Timbre, & Tonality, lol.


Nope! I actually liked how it sounds, not sure if it is placebo, but having it through the Schitt Loki smooths the sound a tiny bit. However, the reason why I use hardware EQ is that I do not notice a degradation in sound quality. I did not notice any clipping with the Schitt, even when the low-end knob was turned all the way up. It provides such a nice and warm punch that is so addicting, without any distortion or clipping. The Loki is my little emotional support EQ, and probably one of my most fun audio purchases.

However, if you want to anger the bass gods and experience truly insane bass, I turned my Loki all the way up, on top that added a +6 boost on my RME bass knob. My Abyss TC, Th-900mk2, and LCD-4 all handled it like a champ. If you are a mad man like me, you can angle the TC to give the right amount of space between your ears, you can experience a visceral bass like no other headphone while retaining most of the dynamics! I couldn't believe my ears when I experienced that, the TC has something special that gives you that subwoofer punch while giving you insane detail and clarity.




The reason why I enjoy the hardware eq, besides feeling like a mad scientist or a DJ, is that I can tailor each song to my liking on the spot. I love working with my hands. There is something so satisfying physically tuning each knob to my liking. It reminds my time as a DJ back in my old college days. I love how I can change tune the music to my emotions and how I feel on the spot, or what I want to feel more from a song. The TC plays so well with EQ, I never noticed any clipping with the Loki. However, with the RME I do notice clipping when adjusting the bass/treble knobs and onboard eq, which the monitor screen would indicate. In order to mitigate the clipping, I just adjust the preamp volume knob a bit lower and pump up the volume on my amp. Since I have been using hardware eq, it has been so much more enjoyable than using Equalizer APO.


----------



## BrowChan

techboyjv said:


> However, if you want to anger the bass gods and experience truly insane bass, I turned my Loki all the way up, on top that added a +6 boost on my RME bass knob.


Man of culture. Thanks for your input! Lol
You listen to hip hop, rap? 

I wish the Loki were bivoltage capable. Anyone know a way to work around this?


----------



## mammal

BrowChan said:


> bivoltage capable


What does this mean? I want to learn, thank you.


----------



## BrowChan (Mar 27, 2021)

mammal said:


> What does this mean? I want to learn, thank you.


No probs, I usually say bivoltage, but I believe it is addressed as ‘dual voltage’. So the US works on about 115V whereas the EU or other eastern parts work on 230V (or 100V, Japan, even depending on the country).

A *dual voltage* capable equipment will work in any of those countries (not sure about Japan) without having the need to use a transformer (voltage converter).
Eg: The HSA-1b AMP provides a switch option that lets the user select between 115V and 230V.
A *single voltage* one will only work in the country supporting the equipment’s stated voltage requirement.
Eg: Most of the Schitt products ask the users to select a specific AC adapter. Need to choose between 115VAC and 230VAC before purchasing. So stuck with only one option.


----------



## Mh996

Has anyone tried pairing the TCs with the TToby? I’m considering going this route for an external amp since I already have TT2/HMS. I understand that speaker amps generally increase dynamics and soundstage, but the Chord speaker amps specifically are generally very neutral with speakers.


----------



## Orlok

Mh996 said:


> Has anyone tried pairing the TCs with the TToby? I’m considering going this route for an external amp since I already have TT2/HMS. I understand that speaker amps generally increase dynamics and soundstage, but the Chord speaker amps specifically are generally very neutral with speakers.


I have the TC coming in about a week and I'll be trying it with the TToby besides the TT2. I ordered the adapters (for TToby as well as the TT2's XLR outs) and they should arrive at around the same time. Really looking forward to it. Indications are that this is the way to go for the TC. BTW, I love the TToby. I'm using it to drive the SR1a as well besides the Buchardt S400 speakers.


----------



## techboyjv

BrowChan said:


> Man of culture. Thanks for your input! Lol
> You listen to hip hop, rap?
> 
> I wish the Loki were bivoltage capable. Anyone know a way to work around this?


 😎 No problem. Yes! I love my hip hop, rap, R&B, EDM, and all the bass-heavy genres .  I love the live concert feeling, the thumps of the drums, kicks, and the bass lines. This probably influenced my taste in headphones, as I really desire the visceral sound vs the airy sound of something like Stax. Especially with the world right now, I have been missing concerts lately. 

My listening sessions are a bit varied since I can go from classical to hip hop, to jazz to EDM. Hence why having an equalizer at hand is nice. https://www.schiit.com/products/loki-mini-3 , according to the website it looks to be so, but I would contact Schitt to be sure.

Also am curious about you all's test tracks for music. In regards to hip hop test tracks, I like good ol 2Pac's Ambitionz Az a Ridah, Dr. Dre's Nuthin' But A G Thang, or for more trap Playboi Carti's Magnolia. I love reading about music in this forum, everyone has great taste! 

Hope this helps!


----------



## Ciggavelli (Mar 27, 2021)

For those into metal, this schiit is crazy with the TCs


----------



## paradoxper

Grind me up baby.


----------



## DJJEZ (Mar 27, 2021)

I'm looking for comparisons between a WA33 and a formula S/powerman for the 1266tc. If you own both or have heard both please comment on the main differences in sound..having a really hard time deciding which one will be better lol I've noticed a ton of people in this thread have these amps so any help is really appreciated   

Please PM me if needed as well. Would love to discuss


----------



## JLoud

techboyjv said:


> 😎 No problem. Yes! I love my hip hop, rap, R&B, EDM, and all the bass-heavy genres .  I love the live concert feeling, the thumps of the drums, kicks, and the bass lines. This probably influenced my taste in headphones, as I really desire the visceral sound vs the airy sound of something like Stax. Especially with the world right now, I have been missing concerts lately.
> 
> My listening sessions are a bit varied since I can go from classical to hip hop, to jazz to EDM. Hence why having an equalizer at hand is nice. https://www.schiit.com/products/loki-mini-3 , according to the website it looks to be so, but I would contact Schitt to be sure.
> 
> ...


I like Slow Acid by Calvin Harris off his Motion album. Or Da Funk by Daft Punk.


----------



## Litlgi74

Ciggavelli said:


> For those into metal, this schiit is crazy with the TCs


The drummer gets tired several times. Lol


----------



## Litlgi74

kamlam said:


> What closed backs would you recommend?


Fostex TH900s


----------



## Ciggavelli (Mar 27, 2021)

Litlgi74 said:


> Fostex TH900s


100%

If you like bass, it’s the second best bass headphone, after the TCs. Also, the th900mk2 is so, so easy to drive. I can drive it with a DragonFly Red out of my iPhone, no problem.

Also, the th900mk2s are the only “cheaper” headphones I have owned and never sold.  For me, that says a lot.


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> For those into metal, this schiit is crazy with the TCs


Killer! Man, this actually sounds really good with the SR1a. And the bass is holding up pretty well but now I'm at 'Ashen Piles of the Incinerated' and it's falling apart a bit. It'll have to be the TC for this.

As for this Schitt, I assume it needs to be put in between the TT2 and TToby. I'm using XLRs in between the two now but I guess this is something I can add later when I want to add another amp (probably tube) using the TT2's RCA outs. It looks like a no-brainer to try but it would be a bit disruptive to what I have right now.


----------



## MatW

Ciggavelli said:


> 100%
> 
> If you like bass, it’s the second best bass headphone, after the TCs. Also, the th900mk2 is so, so easy to drive. I can drive it with a DragonFly Red out of my iPhone, no problem.
> 
> Also, the th900mk2s are the only “cheaper” headphones I have owned and never sold.  For me, that says a lot.



Hey that's not what I want to hear... I thought I was done with my collection... Now you're making me want this...  

In truth I've been interested for a while but don't see it showing up that often in the European classifieds.

How does it compare with the Z1R? That is currently my go-to bass heavy closed back.


----------



## Ragnar-BY

Ciggavelli said:


> the th900mk2s are the only “cheaper” headphones I have owned and never sold. For me, that says a lot.


Same story here 🤣 TH900 were my first “expensive” pair. Now TH900 are my only “cheap” cans. By the way, these are best headphones for movies or gaming.


----------



## vonBaron

I buyed my TH-900 for 700$, they are still my best hp in terms of price/sq.


----------



## Kiats (Mar 28, 2021)

I still remember that when it first came out, Claire from Jaben Singapore and the other staff would wear white gloves to open the box and handle the headphone cos of the Urushi cup. All this talk got me to take it off the headphone stand where it has been standing silent witness to the other headphones that have come and gone. Still as fun as ever. Heheh!

Been spending last couple days listening to the Abyss Phi with the new headband which Jeremy from AV One had delivered to me. What a difference that headband makes. So much more stable and as a result so much easier to adjust the listening position, etc.


----------



## mammal




----------



## ken6217

mammal said:


>


I think the 1266 TC is biological female,


----------



## InTune321

I want to ask the community if any of you are using the TT2 with Abyss1266 TC’s. I just ordered pair of the TC’s and am hoping that the TT2 will be able to power them without me having to invest further in a separate headphone amp. 

Thanks in advance . look forward to your replies and sharing your experience


----------



## Slim1970

mammal said:


>



 The Diana V2's are not a bad headphone and could be a TOTL headphone if the AB-1266 TC's didn't exist. The TC's are noticeably better in every way. With that said, the Diana V2's are better than a good number of headphones at and below their price point.


----------



## genefruit

InTune321 said:


> I want to ask the community if any of you are using the TT2 with Abyss1266 TC’s. I just ordered pair of the TC’s and am hoping that the TT2 will be able to power them without me having to invest further in a separate headphone amp.
> 
> Thanks in advance . look forward to your replies and sharing your experience


My response is only to assist, as your question is asked monthly or so - https://www.head-fi.org/search/4569031/?q=abyss&t=post&c[thread]=879425&o=date and https://www.head-fi.org/search/4569047/?q=tt2&t=post&c[thread]=666765&o=date


----------



## Tachyon88

Slim1970 said:


> The Diana V2's are not a bad headphone and could be a TOTL headphone if the AB-1266 TC's didn't exist. The TC's are noticeably better in every way. With that said, the *Diana V2's are better than a good number of headphones at and below their price point.*



Which ones in your opinion ?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Orlok said:


> Killer! Man, this actually sounds really good with the SR1a. And the bass is holding up pretty well but now I'm at 'Ashen Piles of the Incinerated' and it's falling apart a bit. It'll have to be the TC for this.
> 
> As for this Schitt, I assume it needs to be put in between the TT2 and TToby. I'm using XLRs in between the two now but I guess this is something I can add later when I want to add another amp (probably tube) using the TT2's RCA outs. It looks like a no-brainer to try but it would be a bit disruptive to what I have right now.


If you’re using the speaker box, you’ll put it after the TToby. If you’re using the JotR or HSA-1b, you’ll put it after the TT2


MatW said:


> Hey that's not what I want to hear... I thought I was done with my collection... Now you're making me want this...
> 
> In truth I've been interested for a while but don't see it showing up that often in the European classifieds.
> 
> How does it compare with the Z1R? That is currently my go-to bass heavy closed back.


I haven’t heard the Z1R yet, but I have been curious about it.


----------



## JLoud

I have the Z1R and Fostex th900. For me the bass hits harder and in greater quantity on the th900 over the Z1R. The Z1R has a little more detail and a bigger soundstage. However for bass heavy, I want to feel it in my bones, music I reach for the th900.


----------



## Gadget67 (Mar 28, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> I haven’t heard the Z1R yet, but I have been curious about it.


I own the Z1R and enjoy it for a variety of reasons.  They are really well-made, VERY comfortable, great bass and I’d consider them one of the better closed back headphones I’ve ever used.  I’m guessing they’d be great for gaming (not a gamer myself) and I could wear them all day.  The sound is hard to describe; I’d characterize them as somewhat uninspiring and a bit artificial sounding but still enjoyable if that makes any sense (and it probably doesn’t).  One member I pm with uses them with a DAVE/M-Scaler combination and just loves them (also a gamer BTW).  I’d buy used as opposed to new if you are interested as I consider them overpriced.  I definitely prefer my Stellia over these but YMMV.

Edit: So, of course I had to go pull the Sony headphones out and A-B them with the Stellia, just to see how they compare today.  As expected, the Sony has more substantial bass and a pretty big soundstage.  In comparison to the Stellia, the Sony Bass just seemed a bit muddled (muffled even) and the Stellia does have a nice bass slam (sharper, not overdone).  Just happening to be listening to the best of Jethro Tull; the Stellia is more resolving, accurate and easier to listen to.  Honestly the Sony just seems clumsy and outclassed by the Stellia.  FWIW the Stellia compares very favorably with my current favorite, the Utopia.  Now I’m REALLY anxious to see how the Abyss fares when they arrive!


----------



## Orlok

mammal said:


>


Personally, I prefer the Diana V2 in the photo.


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> If you’re using the speaker box, you’ll put it *after* the TToby. If you’re using the JotR or HSA-1b, you’ll put it after the TT2


Are you sure about this? Connect the speaker outs of the TToby to the Loki Mini+'s RCA inputs?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Orlok said:


> Are you sure about this? Connect the speaker outs of the TToby to the Loki Mini+'s RCA inputs?


Oh sorry, I misunderstood what you were asking.  I thought you meant the SR1a, but it appears you're talking about the Schiit Loki.  So please disregard my comment


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> Oh sorry, I misunderstood what you were asking.  I thought you meant the SR1a, but it appears you're talking about the Schiit Loki.  So please disregard my comment


No problem! The Loki does look quite interesting and intuitive to operate. Another thing to refer to later after I've had some quality time with the TC. I really don't expect the TC to _need_ any EQ'ing although _want_ may be something that develops later on. Based on all that I've heard and read along with the experience I've had with various cans over the years, the TC really seems like it'll have the perfect tonality _for me_ across the board.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Orlok said:


> No problem! The Loki does look quite interesting and intuitive to operate. Another thing to refer to later after I've had some quality time with the TC. I really don't expect the TC to _need_ any EQ'ing although _want_ may be something that develops later on. Based on all that I've heard and read along with the experience I've had with various cans over the years, the TC really seems like it'll have the perfect tonality _for me_ across the board.


Oh, I don't own the Loki.  I was just spelling S**t in a way that wouldn't get edited...hahahha


----------



## JLoud

I do have the Loki but as I’m running balanced into my amp I’m not currently using it with the TC. However it is so easy to add bass to the TC just by rotating the pads I never found the need to have use it.


----------



## techboyjv

JLoud said:


> I do have the Loki but as I’m running balanced into my amp I’m not currently using it with the TC. However it is so easy to add bass to the TC just by rotating the pads I never found the need to have use it.


What position do you rotate on the ear pads for more of the low-end emphasis? 


Orlok said:


> No problem! The Loki does look quite interesting and intuitive to operate. Another thing to refer to later after I've had some quality time with the TC. I really don't expect the TC to _need_ any EQ'ing although _want_ may be something that develops later on. Based on all that I've heard and read along with the experience I've had with various cans over the years, the TC really seems like it'll have the perfect tonality _for me_ across the board.



I use the Loki mainly for the quick access and tactile feel. They are really nice since at times I am very treble sensitive, especially switching to my Th-900's (which I wholeheartedly recommend) it is nice to dampen treble on the spot when I am too lazy to mess with the software UI. The tuning with the TC is amazing and doesn't need modification (unless you are a super Harman Target enthusiast) but there at times, depending on the song, I like having the freedom to be able to feel on the spot a bit more low end or hear the instruments or vocals a little bit closer.


----------



## JLoud

I usually rotate the pad one notch to increase the gap behind the ear at the bottom.


----------



## Slim1970

Tachyon88 said:


> Which ones in your opinion ?


The Empyrean’s (not resolving enough, bass and midrange can sound congested on some track with stock cable) , the Verité’s (bass is on full tilt all the time and can lacks detail and layering in comparison to the V2’s), the RAD-0’s (doesn’t have the resolve and spaciousness of V2’s), the HD800S’s (lacks body and fullness in comparison tomthemV2’s), to name a few. Tonally, the V2’s hit sweet spot for me over those headphone especially when paired with the Superconductor cable.


----------



## Tachyon88

Slim1970 said:


> The Empyrean’s (not resolving enough, bass and midrange can sound congested on some track with stock cable) , the Verité’s (bass is on full tilt all the time and can lacks detail and layering in comparison to the V2’s), the RAD-0’s (doesn’t have the resolve and spaciousness of V2’s), the HD800S’s (lacks body and fullness in comparison tomthemV2’s), to name a few. Tonally, the V2’s hit sweet spot for me over those headphone especially when paired with the Superconductor cable.



Right on, are these impressions all stock and without EQ ?


----------



## BrowChan (Mar 29, 2021)

techboyjv said:


> Also am curious about you all's test tracks for music. In regards to hip hop test tracks, I like good ol 2Pac's Ambitionz Az a Ridah, Dr. Dre's Nuthin' But A G Thang, or for more trap Playboi Carti's Magnolia. I love reading about music in this forum, everyone has great taste!


I use the following (in *no* particular order):

Top of the Morning - D Smoke
Chase The Money - E40, Quavo, Roddy Ricch, etc
GHETTO YOUT - Lancey Foux, Bakar, Monkey 67 (I really like the last 22 seconds in this, damn)
After Hourzzz - B.o.B
XGAMES - VIC MENSA
Well crap - glbl wrmng, Pell, Paasky
On my Level - Wiz Khalifa
Diego - Tory Lanez
VEX - slowthai
JUICE - Tobe Nwigwe (Nice for Soundstage also)
Flight of the Cosmic Hippo - Béla Fleck
A Thousand Years - Sting
Starboy - The Weeknd, Daft Punk
The Hills - The Weeknd
Limit To Your Love - James Blake
Flip - Glass Animals
Hazey - Glass Animals
Dragon Kaido - Musicality
......I have so much more.......this is what the TC did to me.


Anyway, all the above aside, I just got the TT2 loaner unit yesterday (personal unit coming in in 2-3 weeks). Man....the bass is so coherent and tactile. The quality is excellent. Busy tracks can be clearly deciphered now. I feel that the instruments have a much more engaging speed to them. The treble also feels smoother. One thing that was blatant to my ears was the bass *quantity*; the bass, although present when and where called for, there is not as much impact or rumble as I had experienced with my previous AMPs (mainly HSA-1b). I also auditioned the WA33 Elite at my friend's (thank you!) a month or two ago, and that felt even more visceral and rumbly.
_*Note*: I used the front output on High Gain. I read about some settings, but did not have the time to try with them. Also need to purchase an adapter to run the TT2 off its XLR rear. _


It even looks really nice, IMO. I was thining the unit was gonna be bigger, but nope. It is a really *compact, all-in-one transportable desktop unit*. I wanna say this is my endgame until I settle down, but let me see. I need to spend more time to learn more about it.


----------



## Slim1970

BrowChan said:


> I use the following (in *no* particular order):
> 
> Top of the Morning - D Smoke
> Chase The Money - E40, Quavo, Roddy Ricch, etc
> ...


Try using the TT2’s XLR outputs. You get much better results driving the TC’s.


----------



## Gadget67

BrowChan said:


> I use the following (in *no* particular order):
> 
> Top of the Morning - D Smoke
> Chase The Money - E40, Quavo, Roddy Ricch, etc
> ...


I’m really impressed with my TT2.  One inexpensive solution for the rear XLR ports is to buy two of these Neutrik XLR female to female adapters.  Here’s a link to show what they look like.  Moon Audio made my adapter but these really work just as well.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/491522-REG/Neutrik_NA3FF_XLR_Female_to_XLR.html


----------



## Gadget67

Slim1970 said:


> Try using the TT2’s XLR outputs. You get much better results driving the TC’s.


Totally agree!  The rear XLR ports definitely provide extra punch for hard to drive headphones.


----------



## mammal

Gadget67 said:


> One inexpensive solution for the rear XLR ports is to buy two of these Neutrik XLR female to female adapters


Are those safe? Somewhere on TT2/AB-1266 forum I read that it is best to get an adapter that simply does not connect all 3 pins in the 3-pin male to female XLR, always leaving one out (1+2 for single ended, 2+3 for balanced). But perhaps I read wrong?


----------



## BrowChan

Gadget67 said:


> I’m really impressed with my TT2.  One inexpensive solution for the rear XLR ports is to buy two of these Neutrik XLR female to female adapters.  Here’s a link to show what they look like.  Moon Audio made my adapter but these really work just as well.
> https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/491522-REG/Neutrik_NA3FF_XLR_Female_to_XLR.html





mammal said:


> Are those safe? Somewhere on TT2/AB-1266 forum I read that it is best to get an adapter that simply does not connect all 3 pins in the 3-pin male to female XLR, always leaving one out (1+2 for single ended, 2+3 for balanced). But perhaps I read wrong?


I was thinking that as well. And how do I connect them to the stock Abyss cable? I think they connect to the SC cable (I don't have) ending in two AMP terminals, right?


----------



## mammal

I reached out to Lavricables, they are making 2x3pin female XLR to 4-pin female XLR adapter for me - can send pics when it arrives next week if anyone is interested. I asked them directly and they confirmed that pin 1 (on both 3pin XLRs) is not connected, as it would be the shield and you don't want that. So it is effectively connecting pins 2 and 3, to the L and R pins on the 4-pin XLR. Remember, TT2 has 2x 3pin MALE XLR outs and your AB-1266 cable is terminated with 4pin MALE XLR plug, so you need 2x 3pin female to 4pin female adapter here.


----------



## ra990

mammal said:


> I reached out to Lavricables, they are making 2x3pin female XLR to 4-pin female XLR adapter for me - can send pics when it arrives next week if anyone is interested. I asked them directly and they confirmed that pin 1 (on both 3pin XLRs) is not connected, as it would be the shield and you don't want that. So it is effectively connecting pins 2 and 3, to the L and R pins on the 4-pin XLR. Remember, TT2 has 2x 3pin MALE XLR outs and your AB-1266 cable is terminated with 4pin MALE XLR plug, so you need 2x 3pin female to 4pin female adapter here.


That is the correct way to do it. Pins 2 and 3 from the TT2 outs are for balanced drive, leave pin 1 disconnected. If you buy a third party adapter, MAKE SURE pins 1 and 3 haven't been shorted together. There are a lot of adapters that do this which you can buy from Amazon. You should test before connecting, because otherwise there will be almost instant damage to your TT2's output and you will actually hear it sizzle, crackle, and pop the instant you connect the adapter. Not a fun sound.


----------



## qboogie

BrowChan said:


> I was thinking that as well. And how do I connect them to the stock Abyss cable? I think they connect to the SC cable (I don't have) ending in two AMP terminals, right?


JPS sells a Y adaptor using their stock alumiloy cable with dual female XLR3 specifically for the TT2. I used one recently. the price is pretty steep but you won't encounter sound degradation since the adapter and stock cable match


----------



## Orlok

qboogie said:


> JPS sells a Y adaptor using their stock alumiloy cable with dual female XLR3 specifically for the TT2. I used one recently. the price is pretty steep but you won't encounter sound degradation since the adapter and stock cable match


I ordered the same from Moon Audio specifically for the TT2's XLR3s. Pricey there too. Also ordered the 4-in female with a pair of banana jacks to use the TToby's speaker taps. All pricey but I'm not good with the soldering iron. Never wanted to do that type of work on my electric guitars either.


----------



## Spawn300Z

Orlok said:


> I ordered the same from Moon Audio specifically for the TT2's XLR3s. Pricey there too. Also ordered the 4-in female with a pair of banana jacks to use the TToby's speaker taps. All pricey but I'm not good with the soldering iron. Never wanted to do that type of work on my electric guitars either.


i actually went with the moon audio speaker taps. But I use their cable adapter system with mini XLRs.works great easy to switch amp ends without buying multiple cable sets.  I actually have 2 TTobys and using one for my Susvaras right now. But originally planned to used them bridged to my speakers. Which I will do once I can get my other amp.


----------



## BrowChan

qboogie said:


> JPS sells a Y adaptor using their stock alumiloy cable with dual female XLR3 specifically for the TT2. I used one recently. the price is pretty steep but you won't encounter sound degradation since the adapter and stock cable match


Aha! Someone else told me as well, but I thought it was gonna be another custom cable. I see it in their website now, thanks: https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...s-abyss-adaptor-cables?variant=37659933442244

Half a grand for an adapter is pretty steep though, lol. I think Moon Audio sells their own for around $350 or so. I'll think about where I will get the adapter from, but I am definitely getting one. *Need my bass.*


----------



## qboogie

If needed, JPS  can make the adapters using the superconductor cable too.


----------



## BrowChan

I wonder how the SC adaptor would pair (sound wise) with the stock cable. Also price wise.


----------



## ra990

BrowChan said:


> Aha! Someone else told me as well, but I thought it was gonna be another custom cable. I see it in their website now, thanks: https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...s-abyss-adaptor-cables?variant=37659933442244
> 
> Half a grand for an adapter is pretty steep though, lol. I think Moon Audio sells their own for around $350 or so. I'll think about where I will get the adapter from, but I am definitely getting one. *Need my bass.*


Oh my, these prices are ridiculous for such a simple cable. Buy yourself a soldering gun and with some practice, adapters will be super easy to make and cost you a just several dollars, even with really good cables and connectors.


----------



## OceanRanger

Does anyone have any tips for getting the 1266s to fit properly with glasses? I've been having a rough time on this front.


----------



## Ciggavelli

OceanRanger said:


> Does anyone have any tips for getting the 1266s to fit properly with glasses? I've been having a rough time on this front.


Same here. I haven’t found a solution at all, so I just relent and take the glasses off. I’m not completely blind, so it’s not terrible, but I wish there was a way to keep your glasses on without pinching or damaging the  glasses frame.


----------



## Litlgi74

OceanRanger said:


> Does anyone have any tips for getting the 1266s to fit properly with glasses? I've been having a rough time on this front.


I understand that contact lenses aren't for everyone... I will never go back to glasses...


----------



## OceanRanger

Litlgi74 said:


> I understand that contact lenses aren't for everyone... I will never go back to glasses...


In addition to the 1266-glasses-fit issue, I also have OCD issues if my lenses aren't super clean. Contacts would solve both of these problems. Unfortunately my prescription doesn't work well with contacts.


----------



## Orlok (Mar 30, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> Same here. I haven’t found a solution at all, so I just relent and take the glasses off. I’m not completely blind, so it’s not terrible, but I wish there was a way to keep your glasses on without pinching or damaging the  glasses frame.


Hmmm... this maybe a bit of an issue since I wear glasses but only for reading and computer glasses and I listen a lot while working. Since you are not supposed to get a tight seal with the 1266 TC, isn't there enough room for the frame to slip through? Obviously, I have no issues at all with the SR1a and even with the LCD-4 which obviously clamps on the frames and it doesn't bother me.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Orlok said:


> Hmmm... this maybe a bit of an issue since I wear glasses but only for reading and computer glasses and I listen a lot while working. Since you are not supposed to get a tight seal with the 1266 TC, isn't there enough room for the frame to slip through? Obviously, I have issues at all with the SR1a and even with the LCD-4 which obviously clamps on the frames and it doesn't bother me.


Unfortunately, no. It puts pressure on the frame regardless what I do. I’ll try again tomorrow and see if I can figure it out.


----------



## mammal

Ciggavelli said:


> It puts pressure on the frame regardless what I do


Curious to see how AB-1266 work on my (quite slim) head with glasses (which I absolutely need). I have had no issues so far with any headphones (Diana V2, Bose QC35, Hifiman Arya, Focal Clear, DCA Ether) so hoping it stays this way! Wondering, how far apart do you keep the headband, I mean, how narrow/wide are your heads? I am more worried that the earpads will not be even close to my ears.


----------



## mammal

mammal said:


>



For those interested, this meme wasn't just lurking, I actually ordered AB-1266 right after receiving Diana V2 🙃


----------



## BrowChan

ra990 said:


> Oh my, these prices are ridiculous for such a simple cable. Buy yourself a soldering gun and with some practice, adapters will be super easy to make and cost you a just several dollars, even with really good cables and connectors.


I've gotta learn how to do that stuff. Any starter videos? Can PM me, maybe.


----------



## stemiki

OceanRanger said:


> Does anyone have any tips for getting the 1266s to fit properly with glasses? I've been having a rough time on this front.


I am very happy with this frame.  It's like not having glasses.  They are the "Lindberg Air Titanium".


----------



## donato

BrowChan said:


> I was thinking that as well. And how do I connect them to the stock Abyss cable? I think they connect to the SC cable (I don't have) ending in two AMP terminals, right?



An inexpensive option is to buy an adapter cable from Blue Jeans cable for $53 for a 5-ft cable using 4x16awg belden speaker cable.  Just e-mail them for a custom quote.


----------



## Gadget67

Ciggavelli said:


> Unfortunately, no. It puts pressure on the frame regardless what I do. I’ll try again tomorrow and see if I can figure it out.


Interesting...my frames are very thin (wire) and I’ve had zero issues with other headphones.  Still waiting for mine and since I’ve never had a chance to try them, I’m a bit nervous!


----------



## jlbrach

interestingly I have no issues with my glasses and the 1266


----------



## Ciggavelli

Hmmmmm....maybe I have strangely shaped frames.  I'll investigate further


----------



## JLoud

Orlok said:


> Hmmm... this maybe a bit of an issue since I wear glasses but only for reading and computer glasses and I listen a lot while working. Since you are not supposed to get a tight seal with the 1266 TC, isn't there enough room for the frame to slip through? Obviously, I have no issues at all with the SR1a and even with the LCD-4 which obviously clamps on the frames and it doesn't bother me.


I wear glasses as well and the TC is probably the best fit with them on of any of my headphones. Perhaps the rotation of the pads is an issue? I think most people with glasses would be fine. Not to say it isn't an issue for someone. Apparently heads are like ears, everyone's is/are different.


----------



## geta123 (Mar 30, 2021)

Hey everyone, got my TC's a little while ago and am trying to figure out fitting. I found that for me, all the way out and slight tow out has yielded the best sound. However, I feel that the bass is a little more pronounced on the left side and was wondering if anyone else experienced this. I don't think its channel imbalance, i think it has to do with fit. Has anyone else had this problem and found a solution to this?


----------



## Gadget67

geta123 said:


> Hey everyone, got my TC's a little while ago and am trying to figure out fitting. I found that for me, all the way out and slight tow out has yielded the best sound. However, I feel that the bass is a little more pronounced on the left side and was wondering if anyone else experienced this. I don't think its channel imbalance, i think it has to do with fit. Has anyone else had this problem and found a solution to this?


Try switching the left/right connectors at the headphone to see if it moves to the other side.


----------



## ken6217

It’s probably the fit. That happened to me when I first got them.


----------



## geta123

Gadget67 said:


> Try switching the left/right connectors at the headphone to see if it moves to the other side.


It's still a little pronounced on the left side, although slightly more even


----------



## geta123

ken6217 said:


> It’s probably the fit. That happened to me when I first got them.


What did you do to fix it? Just the rotation of the earpads?


----------



## OceanRanger

JLoud said:


> I wear glasses as well and the TC is probably the best fit with them on of any of my headphones. Perhaps the rotation of the pads is an issue? I think most people with glasses would be fine. Not to say it isn't an issue for someone. Apparently heads are like ears, everyone's is/are different.


I’m going to loosen the fit of my 1266s a bit more and see how that impacts sound and the issue with my glasses.


----------



## Shahrose

geta123 said:


> Hey everyone, got my TC's a little while ago and am trying to figure out fitting. I found that for me, all the way out and slight tow out has yielded the best sound. However, I feel that the bass is a little more pronounced on the left side and was wondering if anyone else experienced this. I don't think its channel imbalance, i think it has to do with fit. Has anyone else had this problem and found a solution to this?



It's almost certainly a fit issue. As @ken6217 mentioned, it also happened to me and several others when they first got the TC. Play around with them for a few days, particularly the pad seal and orientation.


----------



## JLoud

Also fit can be adjusted by bending or bowing out or in the side arms. It is possible one side is more or less bowed out. Of course your particular fit may need one side different from the other to get the same bass on each side. If that makes sense.


----------



## ra990

I would rotate the ear pads to a position where the rim of the glasses is least pushed on by the thinnest part of the pad. I don't wear glasses when listening, but that's how I accommodate any hats I'm wearing.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Mar 30, 2021)

You can put the pads closer to your head to see if there is an imbalance there.  If you hear the same quantity of bass on both sides, it's probably a fit or angle issue when putting more space between your ears and the pads.  That happens to me from time to time, and I have to readjust.  I find the more you toe out the arms, the more likely you are to get imbalance issues.


----------



## geta123

Ciggavelli said:


> You can put the pads closer to your head to see if there is an imbalance there.  If you hear the same quantity of bass on both sides, it's probably a fit or angle issue when putting more space between your ears and the pads.  That happens to me from time to time, and I have to readjust.  I find the more you toe out the arms, the more likely you are to get imbalance issues.


Yup I noticed that as well! When they are angled straight it's perfectly balanced, but the more I tow out the bass becomes more inconsistent. I guess being somewhere in between is best


----------



## Tarttett

ra990 said:


> I would rotate the ear pads to a position where the rim of the glasses is least pushed on by the thinnest part of the pad. I don't wear glasses when listening, but that's how I accommodate any hats I'm wearing.


I would be interested to know why you would wear a hat, when you listen to your AB-1266s.


----------



## ra990

Tarttett said:


> I would be interested to know why you would wear a hat, when you listen to your AB-1266s.


I guess my head is too small and they just move around too much unless I sit still. The hat adds some padding and they are more stable. I wouldn't need it if my head was a little bigger.


----------



## ken6217

geta123 said:


> What did you do to fix it? Just the rotation of the earpads?


Really just making certain that your ears are in the same position in the eat cups as well as the distance of each year in relation to the ear cups are the same. Play some music and while the headphones are on your head try moving them around and seeing what works for you. Honestly even a small amount of movement can change the sound quite a bit.


----------



## Tarttett

ra990 said:


> I guess my head is too small and they just move around too much unless I sit still. The hat adds some padding and they are more stable. I wouldn't need it if my head was a little bigger.


Thank you for your response.

I had, in fact, not been considering that that was a functional choice that you had been making. I merely had been curious regarding what I had felt was a curious habit that you had described.

I need to admit that the recent messages that had been posted within this thread reinforce, to me, that idea that the AB-1266s appear to be a bit of an unnecessary nuisance, regarding achieving an optimal fit for them.


----------



## ra990

Tarttett said:


> Thank you for your response.
> 
> I had, in fact, not been considering that that was a functional choice that you had been making. I merely had been curious regarding what I had felt was a curious habit that you had described.
> 
> I need to admit that the recent messages that had been posted within this thread reinforce, to me, that idea that the AB-1266s appear to be a bit of an unnecessary nuisance, regarding achieving an optimal fit for them.


While you are correct, also consider that there's no other headphone where people would tolerate such issues with. But, once you hear what they're capable of, these issues seem like a minor inconvenience.


----------



## DJJEZ

Is it possible to lie down on a couch with the 1266tc or do you have to be upright?


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> You can put the pads closer to your head to see if there is an imbalance there.  If you hear the same quantity of bass on both sides, it's probably a fit or angle issue when putting more space between your ears and the pads.  That happens to me from time to time, and I have to readjust.  I find the more you toe out the arms, the more likely you are to get imbalance issues.


agreed, the wider you set the frame the more possibility that one side is a bit different than the other side


----------



## ra990

DJJEZ said:


> Is it possible to lie down on a couch with the 1266tc or do you have to be upright?


I haven't been able to put my head down with them. They need to hang on your head, so unless you are upright, there's nothing to hang on to. You might be able to find a fixed position with some playing around while flat on your back. I can put my feet up on the couch, but never been able to actually lie down with them. And I don't mean that in the biblical sense, although they're very sexy indeed.


----------



## OceanRanger

I live Northern California and work in Southern California. I split my time between these locations. I have a two channel system in NorCal, which I have been listening to for years. I never thought that I'd get into the headphone space, but my living arrangement in SoCal requires headphones. While I enjoy the traditional two channel setup, I find myself missing the headphones. Perhaps, I am hearing the impact of poor room acoustics, but the 1266s are so much more immersive.


----------



## techboyjv

OceanRanger said:


> I live Northern California and work in Southern California. I split my time between these locations. I have a two channel system in NorCal, which I have been listening to for years. I never thought that I'd get into the headphone space, but my living arrangement in SoCal requires headphones. While I enjoy the traditional two channel setup, I find myself missing the headphones. Perhaps, I am hearing the impact of poor room acoustics, but the 1266s are so much more immersive.


I agree! With school, I will be starting rotations soon, and moving around in different apartments with a huge speaker set up is a bit of a hassle. Also, there is something so _addicting_ about late-night listening sessions with the 1266. Especially looking at the city lights through the window.  With the 1266's spacious sound, ethereal imaging, heart-thumping bass, and sparkle in the treble, the experience is so *magical*.




(Inserts random picture I took on my phone to somewhat describe the mood).


----------



## Litlgi74

DJJEZ said:


> Is it possible to lie down on a couch with the 1266tc or do you have to be upright?


I only use them while lying in bed...


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 31, 2021)

Litlgi74 said:


> I understand that contact lenses aren't for everyone... I will never go back to glasses...



Agreed.  I would also vote for Lasik or PRK. My vision was _terrible _and Lasik legit changed my life. My only regret is I didn't do it sooner.


----------



## number1sixerfan

ra990 said:


> While you are correct, also consider that there's no other headphone where people would tolerate such issues with. But, once you hear what they're capable of, these issues seem like a minor inconvenience.



This is a very good point. I don't usually tolerate headphones that aren't really comfortable or are finicky with fit, which they have been _for me.. b_ut I've gotten adjusted to them more over time and the sound certainly has been worth it.


----------



## Orlok

Just got the notice from Abyss that my TC is shipping out today. Woohoo! It seems I got lucky and ordered just before the stimulus checks started going out.   There is always a lot of anticipation and excitement for getting a new high-ticket item (and I've had plenty of those with custom guitars and boutique guitar amps over many years before getting into the audiophile world) but I'd have to say that this one feels different and tops them all in some surreal sort of manner.


----------



## paradoxper

Orlok said:


> Just got the notice from Abyss that my TC is shipping out today. Woohoo! It seems I got lucky and ordered just before the stimulus checks started going out.   There is always a lot of anticipation and excitement for getting a new high-ticket item (and I've had plenty of those with custom guitars and boutique guitar amps over many years before getting into the audiophile world) but I'd have to say that this one feels different and tops them all in some surreal sort of manner.


Did you tell them to overnight it!


----------



## InTune321

Orlok said:


> Just got the notice from Abyss that my TC is shipping out today. Woohoo! It seems I got lucky and ordered just before the stimulus checks started going out.   There is always a lot of anticipation and excitement for getting a new high-ticket item (and I've had plenty of those with custom guitars and boutique guitar amps over many years before getting into the audiophile world) but I'd have to say that this one feels different and tops them all in some surreal sort of manner.


How long did yours take. I was told mine would be 8 weeks. I’m only 2 weeks in now....


----------



## Orlok

paradoxper said:


> Did you tell them to overnight it!


Nah, forgot that detail. They said 2nd-Day so I hope I'll have it for the weekend. And my wife is going out to visit a friend out of town for a few days so the timing really would be perfect!


----------



## geta123

Orlok said:


> Just got the notice from Abyss that my TC is shipping out today. Woohoo! It seems I got lucky and ordered just before the stimulus checks started going out.   There is always a lot of anticipation and excitement for getting a new high-ticket item (and I've had plenty of those with custom guitars and boutique guitar amps over many years before getting into the audiophile world) but I'd have to say that this one feels different and tops them all in some surreal sort of manner.


Got mine just a week ago, you'll love it!


----------



## decur

i have had my abyss 1266 tc on order since 2/22/21 and i was told 8 weeks from time of placed order to being shipped...
i hope to see my pair in 2-3 weeks


----------



## geta123

Yeah I must've ordered mine just before there was a big influx of orders. I was quoted 3 weeks and mine came in exactly 3 weeks


----------



## decur

im curious,has anyone here tried their ab1266's with the hifiman ef-1000 headphone amp?
i know alot of people here like the woo wa33 as their be all end all totl amp.


----------



## DJJEZ (Mar 31, 2021)

Orlok said:


> Just got the notice from Abyss that my TC is shipping out today. Woohoo! It seems I got lucky and ordered just before the stimulus checks started going out.   There is always a lot of anticipation and excitement for getting a new high-ticket item (and I've had plenty of those with custom guitars and boutique guitar amps over many years before getting into the audiophile world) but I'd have to say that this one feels different and tops them all in some surreal sort of manner.


Congrats. Meant to be another 1 or 2 weeks for me  

Have you decided which song will be first?


----------



## MatW

DJJEZ said:


> Congrats. Meant to be another 1 or 2 weeks for me
> 
> Have you decided which song will be first?


Interesting question. I think the first song I listened to with the TC was Pneuma by Tool. An awesome song regardless, but esp great with the TC.


----------



## DJJEZ

MatW said:


> Interesting question. I think the first song I listened to with the TC was Pneuma by Tool. An awesome song regardless, but esp great with the TC.


I think I'm going with deftones as my first song on the 1266tc . Just haven't decided which exact song yet


----------



## Orlok

InTune321 said:


> How long did yours take. I was told mine would be 8 weeks. I’m only 2 weeks in now....


Less than two weeks, actually, which is actually what they quoted me when I placed the order. But maybe I just beat the deluge of new orders and/or maybe it has something to do with shipping outside of the US.


----------



## ra990

Orlok said:


> Less than two weeks, actually, which is actually what they quoted me when I placed the order. But maybe I just beat the deluge of new orders and/or maybe it has something to do with shipping outside of the US.


They give preference to those that order from their official site as opposed to a dealer. Where did you order from?


----------



## Orlok

DJJEZ said:


> Congrats. Meant to be another 1 or 2 weeks for me
> 
> Have you decided which song will be first?


No, I haven't but I know it won't be classical, jazz or acoustic! Haha. Might be Meshuggah's 'Obzen' but I'll give this some more thought.


----------



## Orlok

ra990 said:


> They give preference to those that order from their official site as opposed to a dealer. Where did you order from?


Ah, I did order direct from Abyss. Makes sense.


----------



## MatW (Mar 31, 2021)

Orlok said:


> No, I haven't but I know it won't be classical, jazz or acoustic! Haha. Might be Meshuggah's 'Obzen' but I'll give this some more thought.


Not Bleed? 🤘


----------



## Orlok

Well, 'Bleed' is in the 'Obzen' album (third track) but I think the opening track 'Combustion' might be the better intro with its thrash speed.


----------



## Orlok

And these just arrived at my work office so I'm full-tilt ready but another decision to make: which one do I start out with - SE, XLR, or speaker tap?


----------



## DJJEZ

Orlok said:


> And these just arrived at my work office so I'm full-tilt ready but another decision to make: which one do I start out with - SE, XLR, or speaker tap?


Start with SE then XLR I reckon


----------



## Orlok

DJJEZ said:


> Start with SE then XLR I reckon


Yes, that makes the most sense: go from Mega to Giga to Tera. Or from super to ultra to hyper...  

I certainly got the 1266 TC with _energy_ and _visceral _in mind - all kinds of metal, electronic (some EDM but also all kinds of other electronic genres), trip-hop, a bit of hip-hop, modern pop and just whatever that can punch you in the gut. That's pretty much why I decided to go with the TC over Susvara. The Susvara is amazing and I can imagine getting it (or perhaps its successor) someday down the road but, having had the HD800S for years and having gotten used to its brighter tonality and soundstage, I decided the SR1a will better suit classical, jazz and acoustic and the LCD-4 for vocal-centric and intimate small ensemble kinds of music. 

I tried listening to high-energy kinds of stuff with the LCD-4 and, although it has great bass, it's just not voiced for metal and electronic nor does it have the proper tactile feel. The low-mids are a little too forward and a little too bouncy in the response. For energy, you want _tight_. But I'm sure it'll be great for all these other genres I like to listen to as well. I don't expect the TC to be better at what the SR1a and LCD-4 excel at for certain kinds of genres, styles and sounds. The SR1a floats you to the skies and the LCD-4 coddles and soothes. They are both beautiful in their own ways but I fully expect the TC to provide a totally different type of experience - like when my testosterone level was at its peak in my younger days!


----------



## Roasty

Orlok said:


> And these just arrived at my work office so I'm full-tilt ready but another decision to make: which one do I start out with - SE, XLR, or speaker tap?



Moon Audio? 
Did you have to email them to custom order the speaker taps? Or are they somewhere on their website.. (can't seem to find it..)?

I did email abyss a little while ago about the SC speaker taps but they are a fair bit pricier than I thought. The plugs/components they mentioned they would use for the build do sound nice though. Am still thinking if I should go ahead and place the order.


----------



## Orlok

Roasty said:


> Moon Audio?
> Did you have to email them to custom order the speaker taps? Or are they somewhere on their website.. (can't seem to find it..)?
> 
> I did email abyss a little while ago about the SC speaker taps but they are a fair bit pricier than I thought. The plugs/components they mentioned they would use for the build do sound nice though. Am still thinking if I should go ahead and place the order.


Yes, Moon Audio. You should email them direct and just advise them what headphone with what type of connector you will use to connect to the speaker tap and they'll know exactly what to prepare. I don't think this is the type of adapter that audio shops will want to offer for anyone to order from their online stores. A lot could go wrong.


----------



## Stereolab42 (Apr 1, 2021)

Dammit. Did not want to buy at the moment but I figured this could be my last chance to get one for a long time, maybe even this year, as more CovidBucks(tm) keep getting printed and the wait keeps stretching out. Per the rumor I hope I'm minimizing the wait via buying direct. (Yeah, I know my first name is on there, but I don't really care, lots of people know it already.)


----------



## Litlgi74

I fear that if more "CovidBucks(tm)" keep getting printed... TCs will cost $10k for the lite version... and milk will cost $10 a gallon.


----------



## ken6217 (Apr 1, 2021)

Litlgi74 said:


> I fear that if more "CovidBucks(tm)" keep getting printed... TCs will cost $10k for the lite version... and milk will cost $10 a gallon.



Oh, you ain't seen nothing yet. The new 2 trillion dollar spending bill masquerading as an infrastructure bill. Wait for inflation to hit from all of this.


----------



## InTune321

Orlok said:


> And these just arrived at my work office so I'm full-tilt ready but another decision to make: which one do I start out with - SE, XLR, or speaker tap?


I have a question regarding your speaker taps. How do you work with them into the Toby, given that your profile indicates that you also have speakers connected? I have an Etude Amp and considering speaker taps for my 1266 TC's (arriving soon), but I currently also have a 2 channel system running through the amp. Look forward to any inside you may have and to hearing about your findings.


----------



## littlej0e

Stereolab42 said:


> Dammit. Did not want to buy at the moment but I figured this could be my last chance to get one for a long time, maybe even this year, as more CovidBucks(tm) keep getting printed and the wait keeps stretching out. Per the rumor I hope I'm minimizing the wait via buying direct. (Yeah, I know my first name is on there, but I don't really care, lots of people know it already.)


Hi, Nick. I'm Justan. It's a pleasure to meet you...

Gratz on the TCs!


----------



## jlbrach

Litlgi74 said:


> I fear that if more "CovidBucks(tm)" keep getting printed... TCs will cost $10k for the lite version... and milk will cost $10 a gallon.


sadly I agree


----------



## Orlok (Apr 1, 2021)

InTune321 said:


> I have a question regarding your speaker taps. How do you work with them into the Toby, given that your profile indicates that you also have speakers connected? I have an Etude Amp and considering speaker taps for my 1266 TC's (arriving soon), but I currently also have a 2 channel system running through the amp. Look forward to any inside you may have and to hearing about your findings.


Unfortunately, it seems we'll have to do things the old fashioned way and disconnect the speaker wires from the power amps and connect the adapter when we want to use the TC with it. I would imagine there are (or can be custom ordered) switch boxes for people who want to switch between different sets of speakers from one power amp. I don't think I want to go as far to find something like that. I don't really use the speakers a lot and I'm sure I'll end up using them even less once I get the TC. I'm now primarily using TToby now to drive the SR1a.

Also, it seems the balanced XLR outs from the TT2 will provide more than enough juice for the TC so that may be the preferred method. But I have the XLRs out of the TT2 connected to the XLR ins of the TToby so it seems I should get RCA connectors to connect the two and use the XLR outs specifically to drive the TC. Chord confirmed that both RCA and XLR outs are active at the same time but that I should have the other device turned off or disconnected when the other one is used.

Another option for me is to switch between the SR1a and the TC using the speaker taps with the RAAL amp interface box. It has speaker-thru outs and a switch that allows to choose speakers or the SR1a and, in this case, I can connect the speaker tap adapter to the speaker-thru taps to use the TC. Lots of experimenting to do!


----------



## InTune321

Orlok said:


> Unfortunately, it seems we'll have to do things the old fashioned way and disconnect the speaker wires from the power amps and connect the adapter when we want to use the TC with it. I would imagine there are (or can be custom ordered) switch boxes for people who want to switch between different sets of speakers from one power amp. I don't think I want to go as far to find something like that. I don't really use the speakers a lot and I'm sure I'll end up using them even less once I get the TC. I'm now primarily using TToby now to drive the SR1a.
> 
> Also, it seems the balanced XLR outs from the TT2 will provide more than enough juice for the TC so that may be the preferred method. But I have the XLRs out of the TT2 connected to the XLR ins of the TToby so it seems I should get RCA connectors to connect the two and use the XLR outs specifically to drive the TC. Chord confirmed that both RCA and XLR outs are active at the same time but that I should have the other device turned off or disconnected when the other one is used.
> 
> Another option for me is to switch between the SR1a and the TC using the speaker taps with the RAAL amp interface box. It has speaker-thru outs and a switch that allows to choose speakers or the SR1a and, in this case, I can connect the speaker tap adapter to the speaker-thru taps to use the TC. Lots of experimenting to do!


That’s what I was thinking, but wondering if anyone had figured out something a little more clever. Will be fun though....


----------



## Orlok

InTune321 said:


> That’s what I was thinking, but wondering if anyone had figured out something a little more clever. Will be fun though....


You can bet there are boxes for doing this - loads of 'em. Here's an example I found on Amazon:

Speaker Selector Switch

I'm sure there are amp builders and electronic DYI hobbyists on this forum who can easily build something like this.


----------



## DJJEZ

Orlok said:


> Unfortunately, it seems we'll have to do things the old fashioned way and disconnect the speaker wires from the power amps and connect the adapter when we want to use the TC with it. I would imagine there are (or can be custom ordered) switch boxes for people who want to switch between different sets of speakers from one power amp. I don't think I want to go as far to find something like that. I don't really use the speakers a lot and I'm sure I'll end up using them even less once I get the TC. I'm now primarily using TToby now to drive the SR1a.
> 
> Also, it seems the balanced XLR outs from the TT2 will provide more than enough juice for the TC so that may be the preferred method. But I have the XLRs out of the TT2 connected to the XLR ins of the TToby so it seems I should get RCA connectors to connect the two and use the XLR outs specifically to drive the TC. Chord confirmed that both RCA and XLR outs are active at the same time but that I should have the other device turned off or disconnected when the other one is used.
> 
> Another option for me is to switch between the SR1a and the TC using the speaker taps with the RAAL amp interface box. It has speaker-thru outs and a switch that allows to choose speakers or the SR1a and, in this case, I can connect the speaker tap adapter to the speaker-thru taps to use the TC. Lots of experimenting to do!


Hopefully the TT2 rear xlr is good enough for now and you can use RCA to Ttoby then you won't have to switch anything.

That's what I will do..TT2 Xlr for 1266tc and RCA goes to my integrated amp for 2 channel


----------



## InTune321

Orlok said:


> You can bet there are boxes for doing this - loads of 'em. Here's an example I found on Amazon:
> 
> Speaker Selector Switch
> 
> I'm sure there are amp builders and electronic DYI hobbyists on this forum who can easily build something like this.


Thanks. I was trying to figure something like that out. My only reservation is that I don’t want signals to grade with multiple pass through. I have also invested in quality cabling, that would then require additional quality cabling (albeit at shorter length). But it gives me another option avenue to peruse.


----------



## Orlok

DJJEZ said:


> Hopefully the TT2 rear xlr is good enough for now and you can use RCA to Ttoby then you won't have to switch anything.
> 
> That's what I will do..TT2 Xlr for 1266tc and RCA goes to my integrated amp for 2 channel


Well, based on the output measurements of the TT2 XLRs, it seems that should be more than enough power. It's what I figured as I've read in the reviews for a while that it's powerful enough to drive efficient speakers to a fairly loud level. But I just couldn't resist the urge to try the speaker taps either. Haha. And, now, I'll probably need to spend some more money on a decent set of RCA cables. And then I'll have to get something else eventually so that the XLR cables don't go unused. lol It just never ends!


----------



## Orlok (Apr 1, 2021)

InTune321 said:


> Thanks. I was trying to figure something like that out. My only reservation is that I don’t want signals to grade with multiple pass through. I have also invested in quality cabling, that would then require additional quality cabling (albeit at shorter length). But it gives me another option avenue to peruse.


Yup, that's always the tradeoff and adding another thing like this can very well degrade the SQ even if miniscule. So you get one thing and that forces you to get more things. Finding that ideal balance between simplicity for sonic purity and flexibility for convenience and variety is tricky and inevitably adds costs that you weren't planning on. Well, that's just how it is with this crazy hobby of ours.


----------



## Mh996

Orlok said:


> I have the TC coming in about a week and I'll be trying it with the TToby besides the TT2. I ordered the adapters (for TToby as well as the TT2's XLR outs) and they should arrive at around the same time. Really looking forward to it. Indications are that this is the way to go for the TC. BTW, I love the TToby. I'm using it to drive the SR1a as well besides the Buchardt S400 speakers.


I’d love to hear your impressions with the TToby, especially compared to the TT2. I don’t think I’ve found a single user here with that pairing. I’m seriously considering purchasing for the modularity alone, so long as there’s an improvement over TT2’s rear XLRs alone.


----------



## Spawn300Z

The TToby Works great with the Susvaras. I have two was going to bridge a set of B&W 805D3s. But have since decided to get the Riviera AIC 10. So I may sell one. Just keep myMark & Daniels Maximus Mini Pluse +’s or get the Elac Vela BS 403s.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Spawn300Z said:


> The TToby Works great with the Susvaras. I have two was going to bridge a set of B&W 805D3s. But have since decided to get the Riviera AIC 10. So I may sell one. Just keep myMark & Daniels Maximus Mini Pluse +’s or get the Elac Vela BS 403s.


Have you tried the AIC-10 with the Susvaras yet?  I’m curious how it compares to the TToby. I had the AIC-10 for a month or so while my current headphone amp was being built. I thought the Susvaras sounded about the same out of the AIC-10 and WA33. I’m curious to see some comparisons with the TToby or etude


----------



## Spawn300Z

I haven’t, just based on reviews, talking with other members and my dealer. I really want to try it.


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## Orlok (Apr 1, 2021)

Mh996 said:


> I’d love to hear your impressions with the TToby, especially compared to the TT2. I don’t think I’ve found a single user here with that pairing. I’m seriously considering purchasing for the modularity alone, so long as there’s an improvement over TT2’s rear XLRs alone.


You can bet that I'll provide a full report! I'd imagine there will be at least some sort of a difference even though the TT2's XLRs also seem to provide more than enough juice. I'd also think that the extra power and current will provide a livelier feel and even faster transient attack and tighter bass. But this is only based on my experience of what it was like to play high-powered guitar amps compared to low-wattage amps. There was something about that extra reserve of power that made you feel like you were holding a bolt of lightning to unleash. Haha. Looking forward to the SE vs XLR vs speaker tap shootout.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 2, 2021)

Well, the AB-1266 Phi TC has finally landed at my work office. Of course, I only have stuff like this delivered to work.  So here are the obligatory unboxing photos and the TC sitting on its matching throne. I've tried it on and it feels surprisingly light and comfortable. But, then, I even find the LCD-4 pretty comfortable so this feels almost like nothing on my head and the overall fit is really good. Just admiring its look for now and I'm not going to bother hooking it up to my old original Hugo in the office. For the first notes that I hear through the TC, I want the maximum impact with the rig at home for starters. My wife is leaving early tomorrow to hang with a friend for a few days so the stars are aligned for a pretty amazing weekend!


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> Well, the AB-1266 Phi TC has finally landed at my work office. Of course, I only have stuff like this delivered to work.  So here are the obligatory unboxing photos and the TC sitting on its matching throne. I've tried it on and it feels surprisingly light and comfortable. But, then, I even find the LCD-4 pretty comfortable so this feels almost like nothing on my head and the overall fit is really good. Just admiring its look for now and I'm not going to bother hooking it up to my old original Hugo in the office. For the first notes that I hear through the TC, I want the maximum impact with the rig at home for starters. My wife is leaving early tomorrow to hang with a friend for a few days so the stars are aligned for a pretty amazing weekend!


Nice!!!  I may have to buy that headphone stand too...


----------



## Orlok

Gadget67 said:


> Nice!!!  I may have to buy that headphone stand too...


An over-the-top headphone deserves an over-the-top stand.  

Pretty cool that there is an Abyss guitar pick in the package. Obviously, there are some guitar players at Abyss. It's not a boutique guitar pick like mine next to it, which is $35 (yes, really!), but will be nice to have around in our demo room!


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 2, 2021)

Orlok said:


> Well, the AB-1266 Phi TC has finally landed at my work office. Of course, I only have stuff like this delivered to work.  So here are the obligatory unboxing photos and the TC sitting on its matching throne. I've tried it on and it feels surprisingly light and comfortable. But, then, I even find the LCD-4 pretty comfortable so this feels almost like nothing on my head and the overall fit is really good. Just admiring its look for now and I'm not going to bother hooking it up to my old original Hugo in the office. For the first notes that I hear through the TC, I want the maximum impact with the rig at home for starters. My wife is leaving early tomorrow to hang with a friend for a few days so the stars are aligned for a pretty amazing weekend!


Hell yes!!! Looking forward to your impressions.

I got the same stand waiting here for mine. Looks awesome


----------



## OceanRanger

Orlok said:


> An over-the-top headphone deserves an over-the-top stand.
> 
> Pretty cool that there is an Abyss guitar pick in the package. Obviously, there are some guitar players at Abyss. It's not a boutique guitar pick like mine next to it, which is $35 (yes, really!), but will be nice to have around in our demo room!


I have the same stand and love it!!


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> An over-the-top headphone deserves an over-the-top stand.
> 
> Pretty cool that there is an Abyss guitar pick in the package. Obviously, there are some guitar players at Abyss. It's not a boutique guitar pick like mine next to it, which is $35 (yes, really!), but will be nice to have around in our demo room!


Good to know...more of a finger picker myself...my 50 year old D-35 doesn’t need an M-Scaler either!


----------



## Orlok (Apr 2, 2021)

Gadget67 said:


> Good to know...more of a finger picker myself...my 50 year old D-35 doesn’t need an M-Scaler either!


Very cool! Wow, a vintage D-35. That's a little fortune you have there.

My guitars that I both play and produce/sell at work are definitely more 21st century.


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> Very cool! Wow, a vintage D-35. That's a little fortune you have there.
> 
> My guitars that I both play and produce/sell at work are definitely more 21st century.


Well, sad to say I’m the original owner...don’t play much any more but I still enjoy picking it up once in a while.  Back in the day, I used a D-18 for gigs and this was a “house queen” so (literally) not a scratch on it.  Definitely not for sale!  Nice that you can work in that environment!


----------



## Orlok (Apr 2, 2021)

Gadget67 said:


> Well, sad to say I’m the original owner...don’t play much any more but I still enjoy picking it up once in a while.  Back in the day, I used a D-18 for gigs and this was a “house queen” so (literally) not a scratch on it.  Definitely not for sale!  Nice that you can work in that environment!


Yeah, something about the magic of Martin acoustics. Tried several Taylors in the past but I couldn't bond with them. Felt too much like an electric and even though I'm primarily an electric player, I wanted something more "acoustic". I'd still love to own a HD-28 one day.

Yes, it is nice to work in an industry you have a passion for. I don't play that much myself these days except for work purposes - overseeing the QC, product development, evaluating new samples, etc. So I sold my massive rig that took years to build to the company to use in the demo room and used the funds to get started with this audiophile addiction - traded in one type of drug for another.   I do still have my old drugs in the product demo room below and can fire them up whenever I feel like it!

BTW, I had to change the photo of my earlier post because I realized that guitar was a prototype of a new model that hasn't been released yet! Oops! 

Nice headphones have replaced my guitars and nice HP amps will replace my nice guitar amps. I know I'm going to want a good tube HP amp eventually. I certainly know what tubes are like and how they feel as well as how they sound. But, for listening, I think solid-state (or maybe a hybrid) will still be my main go-to in the future.


----------



## geta123

Orlok said:


> An over-the-top headphone deserves an over-the-top stand.
> 
> Pretty cool that there is an Abyss guitar pick in the package. Obviously, there are some guitar players at Abyss. It's not a boutique guitar pick like mine next to it, which is $35 (yes, really!), but will be nice to have around in our demo room!


Yuuuup. The pick doubles as a screwdriver to replace the headband too. At least that’s what I heard somewhere


----------



## mammal

geta123 said:


> The pick doubles as a screwdriver to replace the headband too. At least that’s what I heard somewhere


Yep, they said that on one of their YouTube videos.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 3, 2021)

Well, it's very early in the game but I can say, _for sure_, that the 1266 TC is _exactly_ as I had expected it to sound and that means it's awesome. I'm around two hours into it now and listening to Stevie Ray Vaughn's 'Texas Flood' as I type this. As of now and for this initiation process, it's the TT2's front SE headphone output. Tomorrow, I'll hook up the TC to the TT2's XLRs and then, on Sunday, the TToby's speaker taps.

I can say, for now, that the TC does indeed sit right in between - almost perfect dead center - the SR1a and the LCD-4 in terms of tonality and feel, which is exactly what I expected based on my research and that's a mighty good thing. Also, it should be noted that the EQ is set dead flat or outright bypassed with the TC whereas I would normally use numerous EQ presets for the SR1a and the LCD-4 to tweak the tonality to my liking depending on what I'm listening to.

It took me around 15 minutes to adjust the TC to my liking and I did notice that moving the angle of the cups slightly inwards and outwards had a major impact on the overall bass response and, to a lesser degree but still substantial, the midrange tonality. Compared to the SR1a and the LCD-4, the 1266 TC sounds almost completely flat with a slight dip in the mid-mids but with this range being a little more forward than the other two, which I found to be the only "surprise" during this initial test. But this aspect differed from track to track, which I also found interesting.

No, the TC is not going to make me ditch the SR1a or the LCD-4 but - _already_ - it definitely sounds like it will be my main all-around HP. I'm listening to everything at around 80~85dB level right now and, overall, this is a little louder than what I would normally listen at. Sometimes I may go as high as 90dB but I'll need to be in a certain mood to crank it up that much. Listening through the TT2's SE, I can already tell that the TC could use more headroom, juice and punch even though I know I can crank it up even louder. Loudness is not the issue here: it's the overall balance and coherence, effortlessness of the low-end clarity and punch, energy in the midrange, and the extension and silkiness of the treble frequencies. It's all really very good but I can hear that it _can_ be a good deal better with more power and current.

I can only imagine how much better the TC will sound after 200 hours of break-in (along with the cable) and using the TT2's XLR and TToby's speaker taps. I've observed how much better the LCD-4 and SR1a sounded with the same number of hours and, right out of the box, the TC is way, and I mean _way, _ahead of the curve. As I mentioned in other posts, I do not expect the TC to equal the SR1a in some areas like certain aspects of midrange resolution, soundstage, imaging and treble clarity nor do I expect it to equal the LCD-4's low-midrange richness, low-end girth and treble sweetness. But, this being said, the TC is simply a much more _complete_ and well-rounded headphone and I'm only in my first few hours.

The TC's soundstage isn't as wide as that of the SR1a or the HD800S (which I have owned for nearly 5 years) but it's deeper front-to-back with much greater height. In this respect, the TC's soundstage might be "bigger" than either or both. Many people - including well-known YT reviewers - equate soundstage with the width but that really isn't what soundstage is all about. The depth and the height are just as important in describing soundstage and this is where the TC really excels. Although not as wide left-to-right as the SR1a or the HD800S which I am very familiar with, the depth and height are much greater.

In imaging and the pinpoint placement of different instruments within the soundstage, the SR1a is really hard to beat due to its amazing resolution. I will see how TC develops in this area with more break-in time and through the more expanded headroom and power of the TT2's XLR and TToby's speaker taps. The LCD-4 also provides quite amazing imaging and resolution within its more intimate soundstage. Overall, I will need to give the TC the required break-in time before I can make the final call. It's really impressive that the TC - with the EQ set flat - can still compete this early in the game against my SR1a with 200+ hours and the LCD-4 with many hundreds of more hours.

Here's my personal playlist I used for this initial run and which I'll use again for the TT2 XLR and the TToby's speaker taps over the weekend:

• Meshuggah - 'Obzen' album - tracks 'Combustion', 'Bleed' and 'Pravus'
• Beethoven's 5th Symphony by conductor Carlos Kleiber and the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
• Armin van Buuren - 'Status Excessu D' track, various tracks from 'The Best of Armin Only'
• Alison Krauss - selections from 'Windy City', 'New Favorite', and 'Paper Airplane', notably the track 'Dimming of the Day'
• Miles Davis - 'Kind of Blue' - 'So What', 'Blue in Green'
• Led Zeppelin - fourth album, 'Stairway to Heaven' (of course!), 'Black Dog', and 'Going to California'
• Prince - 'Purple Rain' album - 'Purple Rain', 'When Doves Cry', and 'Beautiful Ones', 'Parade' album - 'Kiss' and 'Sometimes in Snows in April'
• Grimes - 'Miss Anthropocene' album
• Diana Krall - 'Turn Up The Quiet' - 'L-O-V-E', 'Night And Day', 'No Moon At All'
• Pat Metheny - 'Still Life... Talking' - 'Minuano', 'Third Wind'
• Brahms Piano Concerto No. 2 - Claudio Arrau on piano, conducted by Bernard Haitnik
• Tool - 'Lateralus' - 'Ticks & Leeches', 'Reflection', and 'Triad'
• Pink Floyd - 'The Wall' - 'Comfortably Numb'
• Pink Floyd - 'DSOTM' - 'Time', 'Money'
• some 'neoclassical' selections from Olafur Arnalds, Max Richter, Nils Frahm and Mari Samuelsen
• Frank Zappa - 'Joe's Garage Acts I, II & III' - 'On The Bus'
• Aes Dana - 'Pollen' (ambient electronic with some _deep _bass)
• Norah Jones - selections from 'Come Away with Me'
• Stevie Ray Vaughn - 'Texas Flood' - title track
• Wardruna - 'Yggdrasil' - 'Rotlaust Tre Fell', 'AnsuR'
• Metallica - tracks 'Master of Puppets' and 'Sad But True'
• JS Bach - 'Toccata & Fugue in D minor' performed by Ton Koopman
• Hans Zimmer - 'Gladiator' and 'Batman: The Dark Knight' soundtracks
• The Beatles - 'Abbey Road' - 'Come Together', 'Here Comes the Sun'
• Sophie - 'It's Okay to Cry'
• Steven Wilson - 'Hand Cannot Erase' - 'Perfect Life', 'Home Invasion / Regret #9'
• Franz Liszt - 'Transcendental Etudes' by pianist Evgeny Kissin
• Joe Satriani - 'Surfing with the Alien' - title track, 'Crushing Day'
• Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 2 performed by pianist Yuja Wang and the Mahler Chamber Orchestra

Just a random bunch of my favorites and they _all_ sound great. I did adjust the pads inwards and outwards with a little bit of forward-and-back movements depending on what I was listening to but that was very easy to do. Having gotten used to adjusting the SR1a for a while, adjusting the TC was quite easy.

The 1266 TC is truly an amazing headphone that I know will sound only better as time goes by. Even though I had very high expectations, I'm quite blown away that it really sounds as good as I expected at this early stage through the TT2's SE output and that it also sounds exactly as I had anticipated tonally and response-wise. There are no compromises whatsoever that I can hear in any of the material above with the EQ set flat. Man, when I start tweaking the EQ slightly for each genre, artist, album and track, that will take things to a whole new level.
It's 1:30am in SoCal and I'll be up for at least another hour or two as I go through more stuff in my library and Qobuz. Hey, it's Friday night!


----------



## simorag (Apr 3, 2021)

Great initial impressions @Orlok and thank you for sharing your playlist!

Just finished my beloved Jaqueline Dupré Dvorak cello concerto, now Listening to Lateralus after a while, and it still amazes how accomplished and ahead-of-the-times it sounds after 20 years 

And, yes, the miracle of the AB-1266 TC is they can give you the same excitement and sheer pleasure encompassing _all possible _music genres. Only the Susvara - among the cans I owned - is so technically complete, although, to my tastes, not as engaging.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

number1sixerfan said:


> VC would be at the top of my list. Once the pandemic is over, I'll try the Focal Stellia as well. If it sounds anything like the Utopia, it should be fun. But the VC comes almost close to the much more expensive TOTL headphones, I'd at least give it a try.


I owned both the Stellia and VC at the same time. I am usually terrible with deciding between two headphones (the plan was to keep one only), but in this case it was so very easy. The VC went very quickly.


----------



## paradoxper

Litlgi74 said:


> I fear that if more "CovidBucks(tm)" keep getting printed... TCs will cost $10k for the lite version... and milk will cost $10 a gallon.


In that case, better find a new milk dealer.


----------



## Litlgi74

paradoxper said:


> In that case, better find a new milk dealer.


It may be cheaper to buy a cow.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Litlgi74 said:


> It may be cheaper to buy a cow.


Oh no. If I still have to keep a cow in my NYC apartment, I will need to get rid of all these headphone and amplifier boxes (I wish I could even without the cow, but it is such a hassle and loss selling without).


----------



## paradoxper

Litlgi74 said:


> It may be cheaper to buy a cow.


It's also far more work to buy, to own and to care for a cow.   

I like my dealer margins.


----------



## jlbrach

Orlok said:


> Well, it's very early in the game but I can say, _for sure_, that the 1266 TC is _exactly_ as I had expected it to sound and that means it's awesome. I'm around two hours into it now and listening to Stevie Ray Vaughn's 'Texas Flood' as I type this. As of now and for this initiation process, it's the TT2's front SE headphone output. Tomorrow, I'll hook up the TC to the TT2's XLRs and then, on Sunday, the TToby's speaker taps.
> 
> I can say, for now, that the TC does indeed sit right in between - almost perfect dead center - the SR1a and the LCD-4 in terms of tonality and feel, which is exactly what I expected based on my research and that's a mighty good thing. Also, it should be noted that the EQ is set dead flat or outright bypassed with the TC whereas I would normally use numerous EQ presets for the SR1a and the LCD-4 to tweak the tonality to my liking depending on what I'm listening to.
> 
> ...


in my case the trio includes the susvara rather than the lcd-4 although I have owned the lcd-4 twice before...I tend to agree with your assessment...I go back and forth as to which I like the best ...I love the abyss and susvara....recently the sr1a has been getting the most play but that changes on a whim..all 3 are so good it makes the choice difficult....the only issue I have is that the sr1a presentation is so dramatically different that it takes me some time to get acclimated when I go from it to the other 2 or vice versa


----------



## Litlgi74

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Oh no. If I still have to keep a cow in my NYC apartment, I will need to get rid of all these headphone and amplifier boxes (I wish I could even without the cow, but it is such a hassle and loss selling without).


My wife hates that I save the boxes.. especially for all my home theater speakers, plasma and OLED TVs. Lol


----------



## Orlok

simorag said:


> Great initial impressions @Orlok and thank you for sharing your playlist!
> 
> Just finished my beloved Jaqueline Dupré Dvorak cello concerto, now Listening to Lateralus after a while, and it still amazes how accomplished and ahead-of-the-times it sounds after 20 years
> 
> And, yes, the miracle of the AB-1266 TC is they can give you the same excitement and sheer pleasure encompassing _all possible _music genres. Only the Susvara - among the cans I owned - is so technically complete, although, to my tastes, not as engaging.


Thanks! Getting started with another session but will stick with the SE for a while so I remember where things are before going to the XLRs. 

I'll definitely have to add that Dvorak cello concerto on the list for today. So many other artists and albums to check out. Totally agree on 'Lateralus' and that's what I'm listening to now to start off today's marathon session. It is indeed a timeless album. 

Yes, everything just sounds _right_ with the TC - no adjustments needed going from one extreme to another or anything in between. I can't seem to do that with the SR1a and the LCD-4. I have to select a different EQ preset when going from classical to modern pop, for example. I can jump around all over these different genres and they all sound "correct" in terms of tonality, balance, staging, and imaging. The TC seems to morph to get the best out of each genre and/or particular recording.

I had some ample time with the Susvara last year but I don't think I had the proper amplification to realize its full potential. I was trying to make up my mind between that and the TC and decided that TC is what I'm going to get _first_, which means I'll probably get the Susvara sometime in the future. Based on what I remember of the Susvara, I'm glad that I got the TC as it really has the tonality and the punch for energetic modern music. But, yes, Susvara is amazing and I know I won't be part of the top-tier exclusive audiophile club unless I own it along with the proper amp partner. Haha. But, for now, I need to get to know and learn to "play" this amazing HP first before adding another.


----------



## Orlok

jlbrach said:


> in my case the trio includes the susvara rather than the lcd-4 although I have owned the lcd-4 twice before...I tend to agree with your assessment...I go back and forth as to which I like the best ...I love the abyss and susvara....recently the sr1a has been getting the most play but that changes on a whim..all 3 are so good it makes the choice difficult....the only issue I have is that the sr1a presentation is so dramatically different that it takes me some time to get acclimated when I go from it to the other 2 or vice versa


I do want to get the Susvara, of course. I'm very familiar with it as I mentioned in my earlier post above but, listening to the TC, I made the right choice to go with this first. The Susvara reminded me of the HD800S in terms of tonality but with much better tonal balance, resolution, and imaging. It has a "cooler" kind of sound with a certain kind of lushness. I would put it in between the SR1a and the TC in terms of tonality. Would you agree with that assessment? It's why I went with the SR1a and the TC first to fill out the sonic spectrum more broadly as the "bedrock", so to speak, and then build around them in terms of adding other complementary HPs and amps. I see the Susvara being somewhere in between the SR1a and the TC and am thinking that the ZMF VC (with a tube amp) could fit in nicely in between the TC and the LCD-4 on the other side of the spectrum.

The SR1a really is in its own sphere. Listening to the TC, I can further appreciate how different and unique it is. I'm a tad bummed that I can't push the SR1a to its full potential with the TToby as the power amp partner, but I mainly listen to classical, jazz, acoustic and vocal-centric music with it anyway so, overall, it isn't an issue. The TToby is somewhat underpowered for the SR1a when it comes to really pushing the low-end frequencies. Eventually, I'll get a more powerful and suitable amp partner. I'm hoping that the upcoming Chord digital amp will be the one.

Still so much to get and build but I'm set for now. I have to remind myself that I can only listen to one headphone through one amp at a time just like a guitar player can also only play one guitar at a time. The TC will keep me quite occupied and very happy with the current rig over the remainder of the year. Around New Years time, I'm sure the itch will reach an unbearable level and I'll be on the hunt again - for what, I really don't know yet. It could be an endgame type of amp for the TC or the ZMF VC and tube amp combo or the Chord amp if it comes out by then. Eventually, I'm sure I'll get them all and add the Susvara as the final topping. Haha. Gotta dream and then work hard to make it happen. In the meantime - like this very moment - the TC is providing more than enough of a high and adrenaline rush.


----------



## paradoxper

Orlok said:


> I do want to get the Susvara, of course. I'm very familiar with it as I mentioned in my earlier post above but, listening to the TC, I made the right choice to go with this first. The Susvara reminded me of the HD800S in terms of tonality but with much better tonal balance, resolution, and imaging. It has a "cooler" kind of sound with a certain kind of lushness. I would put it in between the SR1a and the TC in terms of tonality. Would you agree with that assessment? It's why I went with the SR1a and the TC first to fill out the sonic spectrum more broadly as the "bedrock", so to speak, and then build around them in terms of adding other complementary HPs and amps. I see the Susvara being somewhere in between the SR1a and the TC and am thinking that the ZMF VC (with a tube amp) could fit in nicely in between the TC and the LCD-4 on the other side of the spectrum.
> 
> The SR1a really is in its own sphere. Listening to the TC, I can further appreciate how different and unique it is. I'm a tad bummed that I can't push the SR1a to its full potential with the TToby as the power amp partner, but I mainly listen to classical, jazz, acoustic and vocal-centric music with it anyway so, overall, it isn't an issue. The TToby is somewhat underpowered for the SR1a when it comes to really pushing the low-end frequencies. Eventually, I'll get a more powerful and suitable amp partner. I'm hoping that the upcoming Chord digital amp will be the one.
> 
> Still so much to get and build but I'm set for now. I have to remind myself that I can only listen to one headphone through one amp at a time just like a guitar player can also only play one guitar at a time. The TC will keep me quite occupied and very happy with the current rig over the remainder of the year. Around New Years time, I'm sure the itch will reach an unbearable level and I'll be on the hunt again - for what, I really don't know yet. It could be an endgame type of amp for the TC or the ZMF VC and tube amp combo or the Chord amp if it comes out by then. Eventually, I'm sure I'll get them all and add the Susvara as the final topping. Haha. Gotta dream and then work hard to make it happen. In the meantime - like this very moment - the TC is providing more than enough of a high and adrenaline rush.


When you arrange some demo time, you should see if you can find a STAX rig to also bring into the fold. Even perhaps off an energizer and power amp with flexibility with the RAAL interface. 

Gotta check every box.


----------



## Orlok

paradoxper said:


> When you arrange some demo time, you should see if you can find a STAX rig to also bring into the fold. Even perhaps off an energizer and power amp with flexibility with the RAAL interface.
> 
> Gotta check every box.


Yes, of course, the electrostatic world can't be ignored or forgotten. Haha. The 009S is nested in the long term "to get" folder. I can certainly imagine how it sounds. Seems it would be the epitome of the term "refinement".


----------



## paradoxper

Orlok said:


> Yes, of course, the electrostatic world can't be ignored or forgotten. Haha. The 009S is nested in the long term "to get" folder. I can certainly imagine how it sounds. Seems it would be the epitome of the term "refinement".


The stat-world was truly the most enjoyable part of the journey for me especially the friends I made along the way.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Litlgi74 said:


> My wife hates that I save the boxes.. especially for all my home theater speakers, plasma and OLED TVs. Lol


Yes, mine too and she is right. A partially filled deco folder box like the Stellia one is completely useless once the "ah oh" moment is over. I wish there would be a non-deluxe, barebone version of all things, carton box and case, and that's it. TC is great in that respect, because I use the box to store my adapters, smaller audio things etc.. It is nice and has some room.


----------



## Spawn300Z

Orlok said:


> Thanks! Getting started with another session but will stick with the SE for a while so I remember where things are before going to the XLRs.
> 
> I'll definitely have to add that Dvorak cello concerto on the list for today. So many other artists and albums to check out. Totally agree on 'Lateralus' and that's what I'm listening to now to start off today's marathon session. It is indeed a timeless album.
> 
> ...



You need speaker taps and try your TToby. Works great on Susvaras


----------



## Orlok

Spawn300Z said:


> You need speaker taps and try your TToby. Works great on Susvaras


I'll be getting to that soon, for sure. Listening through the TT2's XLRs now to compare to the SE and the XLRs are definitely a noticeable improvement in almost every way. Still more listening to do but everything just sounds fuller, bigger, punchier, and livelier and I can sort of the feel that extra reserve of power. I'd imagine the TToby will be at another level.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 3, 2021)

Listening through the TToby now... Whoa~ Getting chills and goosebumps...  OMG What a rush! This is another level up - increased clarity, an even bigger soundstage, much improved imaging, it sounds friggin' *HUGE*_. _Makes the TC sound like a totally different HP now. Amazing... Well, it is decided. The TToby has now become my main HP amp. Totally unexpected. I did not expect the improvement to be this great. Although not as I had intended or envisioned, the TToby turned out to be a great investment after all.  This is mind-blowing... I'll have to toggle between the TC and the SR1a through the interface box. I don't expect to use the S400 speakers very much at all now.


----------



## Slim1970

Litlgi74 said:


> My wife hates that I save the boxes.. especially for all my home theater speakers, plasma and OLED TVs. Lol


Boxes help with resale value, especially with headphones. It makes people feel like they are getting something new.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

If I want to go the amp route, any recommendations for an amp with a smaller budget than the TToby?


----------



## Mh996

Orlok said:


> Listening through the TToby now... Whoa~ Getting chills and goosebumps...  OMG What a rush! This is another level up - increased clarity, an even bigger soundstage, much improved imaging, it sounds friggin' *HUGE*_. _Makes the TC sound like a totally different HP now. Amazing... Well, it is decided. The TToby has now become my main HP amp. Totally unexpected. I did not expect the improvement to be this great. Although not as I had intended or envisioned, the TToby turned out to be a great investment after all.  This is mind-blowing... I'll have to toggle between the TC and the SR1a through the interface box. I don't expect to use the S400 speakers very much at all now.


Were you using TT2 as a DAC and Pre-amp? If so, what gain and level on the volume pot did it take to get to listening levels?


----------



## number1sixerfan (Apr 3, 2021)

Orlok said:


> Well, it's very early in the game but I can say, _for sure_, that the 1266 TC is _exactly_ as I had expected it to sound and that means it's awesome. I'm around two hours into it now and listening to Stevie Ray Vaughn's 'Texas Flood' as I type this. As of now and for this initiation process, it's the TT2's front SE headphone output. Tomorrow, I'll hook up the TC to the TT2's XLRs and then, on Sunday, the TToby's speaker taps.
> 
> I can say, for now, that the TC does indeed sit right in between - almost perfect dead center - the SR1a and the LCD-4 in terms of tonality and feel, which is exactly what I expected based on my research and that's a mighty good thing. Also, it should be noted that the EQ is set dead flat or outright bypassed with the TC whereas I would normally use numerous EQ presets for the SR1a and the LCD-4 to tweak the tonality to my liking depending on what I'm listening to.
> 
> ...



Excellent impressions, glad you're enjoying it. And I've essentially given up on the idea of a single headphone being the best or winning so to speak--there just hasn't been one that does so. The TC, SR1a and LCD4 sound like a great stable, congrats


----------



## Orlok

Mh996 said:


> Were you using TT2 as a DAC and Pre-amp? If so, what gain and level on the volume pot did it take to get to listening levels?


Yes, the TT2 as DAC/preamp. I have it on Lo-Gain and, depending on the recording, with the level at -40 to -50. This can get to around 85dB to 90dB peak. Obviously, plenty of headroom to go much louder if you can handle it.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 3, 2021)

number1sixerfan said:


> Excellent impressions, glad you're enjoying it. And I've essentially given up on the idea of a single headphone being the best or winning so to speak--there just hasn't been one that does so. The TC, SR1a and LCD4 sound like a great stable, congrats


Thank you. It's now sounding even better - a _lot_ better - using the TToby's speaker taps. Yes, between the TC, SR1a and the LCD-4, it seems I have the foundation covered. I agree that one single headphone just can't be the single "best". There are too many musical genres, styles, and tastes for one to cover them all at their optimum. I still want to add the Susvara and the ZMF VC someday in the future to slot them in between the three. One can never have enough with this hobby! Haha.


----------



## Orlok

The TC is now permanently set up to be driven by the TToby's speaker taps but going through the RAAL interface box's speaker-thru jacks. The RAAL box has a rocker switch in the back to toggle between the XLR jack in the front and the speaker-thru jack in the back. Funny how this box ended up becoming an A/B switch between the TC and the SR1a. I just have to remember to turn the volume on the TT2 _way_ down (I'll safely turn it all the way down to mute) when coming back to TC after using the SR1a.


----------



## masteretch

I have had the LCD4, Susvara, LCD-4z and LCD-X in the past. Now living with the 1266 PHI TC. I must say I'm quite confused about what I'm hearing and I'm not sure if I have a broken pair. They sound detailled yes but I can't understand the fuss about the soundstage. There is none. Also, they sound piercing, metallic, hashy and outright painfully in the upper mids and treble. What I'm hearing is an incredible amount of distortion when going beyond a certain volume level. They are only bearable at very low volumes for me. Being used to Audeze cans and the Susvara , it really feels like the Abyss distorts waaaay more. Like at least 10 or 20 times more. Also, my head is not large but I can't widen them so much to have an air gap as recommended by Abyss. They always sit with a completely closed seal on my head. Any suggestions?


----------



## DJJEZ

masteretch said:


> I have had the LCD4, Susvara, LCD-4z and LCD-X in the past. Now living with the 1266 PHI TC. I must say I'm quite confused about what I'm hearing and I'm not sure if I have a broken pair. They sound detailled yes but I can't understand the fuss about the soundstage. There is none. Also, they sound piercing, metallic, hashy and outright painfully in the upper mids and treble. What I'm hearing is an incredible amount of distortion when going beyond a certain volume level. They are only bearable at very low volumes for me. Being used to Audeze cans and the Susvara , it really feels like the Abyss distorts waaaay more. Like at least 10 or 20 times more. Also, my head is not large but I can't widen them so much to have an air gap as recommended by Abyss. They always sit with a completely closed seal on my head. Any suggestions?


What amp and dac are you using? Also did you buy the 1266tc new or used?


----------



## Orlok (Apr 4, 2021)

masteretch said:


> I have had the LCD4, Susvara, LCD-4z and LCD-X in the past. Now living with the 1266 PHI TC. I must say I'm quite confused about what I'm hearing and I'm not sure if I have a broken pair. They sound detailled yes but I can't understand the fuss about the soundstage. There is none. Also, they sound piercing, metallic, hashy and outright painfully in the upper mids and treble. What I'm hearing is an incredible amount of distortion when going beyond a certain volume level. They are only bearable at very low volumes for me. Being used to Audeze cans and the Susvara , it really feels like the Abyss distorts waaaay more. Like at least 10 or 20 times more. Also, my head is not large but I can't widen them so much to have an air gap as recommended by Abyss. They always sit with a completely closed seal on my head. Any suggestions?


Something must be wrong with your setup. I own the LCD-4 right now as well as the 1266 Phi TC and I don't hear _anything_ like what you are describing. In fact, I can crank up the TC to ear-splitting levels and not hear a hint of distortion.

What amp are you using to drive the 1266 TC? As for the fit, have you tried pulling the top bar out as far as you can? You still get a seal around your ears but not like you would on other headphones that clamp on each side of your head.


----------



## ra990

masteretch said:


> They always sit with a completely closed seal on my head. Any suggestions?


That's certainly a big part of the problem. Have you tried bending the frame to widen it a bit more?


----------



## masteretch

I'm using a Topping D90 / A90 stack. I'm playing around with earpad positioning now. I've bought them new.


----------



## geta123

masteretch said:


> I'm using a Topping D90 / A90 stack. I'm playing around with earpad positioning now. I've bought them new.


I assume you tried bending the frame already? I had a bit of trouble with fitting in the beginning but as soon as I got the pads to sit lightly on the ears, it was a whole new experience


----------



## masteretch

I think the problem is solved. I had the earpads in the position Abyss recommend to start with. Now the seam is at 09:30 instead of 11:00 and the difference is night and day. 11 o'clock sounded like pierding distortion hell. Now at 11 o'clock the pads just barely touch the head and it's day and night. Distortion seems to have mostly gone. How is this even possible?


----------



## makan

In the quest for increasing comfort, the Delphi nuggets seem to do the job to relieve the hotspot I had at the very centre of the headband


----------



## Hoegaardener70

makan said:


> In the quest for increasing comfort, the Delphi nuggets seem to do the job to relieve the hotspot I had at the very centre of the headband


I just ordered the Dekoni nuggets 20min ago . Any difference? I was actually thinking of placing one nugget under the screw of the main frame.


----------



## SuperBurrito

I'm patiently awaiting my Abyss Phi TCs.  Ordered on January 28th, so 9 weeks so far...
Hopefully they ship in the next week or so.


----------



## SuperBurrito

Orlok said:


> Listening through the TToby now... Whoa~ Getting chills and goosebumps...


Hi,
I have the Ttoby as well.  What adapter cable are you using to connect the speaker taps to the balanced headphone cable?


----------



## paradoxper

SuperBurrito said:


> I'm patiently awaiting my Abyss Phi TCs.  Ordered on January 28th, so 9 weeks so far...
> Hopefully they ship in the next week or so.


And they recently doubled CNC production. Hang in there.


----------



## makan

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I just ordered the Dekoni nuggets 20min ago . Any difference? I was actually thinking of placing one nugget under the screw of the main frame.


Didn’t work for me right on the screw or on the exact middle of the headband, as it still had most of the weight right on that point. I find off centre redistributes the weight away from the very tip. Maybe my head is more pointy than yours


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Well, let’s see.


----------



## Gadget67

SuperBurrito said:


> I'm patiently awaiting my Abyss Phi TCs.  Ordered on January 28th, so 9 weeks so far...
> Hopefully they ship in the next week or so.





paradoxper said:


> And they recently doubled CNC production. Hang in there.


I ordered mine mid March so this isn’t making the wait any easier.  Meanwhile I’m spending on necessary “peripherals“ like headphone cable converters, hearing about how good the TToby amp is, wondering if I’ll need the Dekoni nuggets...ARRRGH!!!  Well, I’ll just need to buy something else while I’m waiting...


----------



## DJJEZ

I ordered March 12th and was told first week of April. Expecting it to be a much longer wait though


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Gadget67 said:


> hearing about how good the TToby amp is, wondering if I’ll need the Dekoni nuggets...ARRRGH!!!


Well, at least they are not exactly on the same spending level . 

By the way, I am perfectly fine with my tc without any TToby. The latter seems overpriced to me as well.


----------



## makan

Enjoying the TC with the Yggdrasil and Milo.


----------



## Gadget67 (Apr 4, 2021)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Well, at least they are not exactly on the same spending level .
> 
> By the way, I am perfectly fine with my tc without any TToby. The latter seems overpriced to me as well.


I thought briefly about the TToby a while back but ended up with a very heavily discounted Chord 2650 so I have that option, I suppose.  Reading about @Orlok’s experience (and detailed review) is also making me impatient.  Oh well....


----------



## number1sixerfan

masteretch said:


> I think the problem is solved. I had the earpads in the position Abyss recommend to start with. Now the seam is at 09:30 instead of 11:00 and the difference is night and day. 11 o'clock sounded like pierding distortion hell. Now at 11 o'clock the pads just barely touch the head and it's day and night. Distortion seems to have mostly gone. How is this even possible?



Glad you were able to get that sorted out. The fit is extremely finicky and is a bit of a design flaw in my opinion.. but it's worth taking the time to get it right.


----------



## paradoxper

Gadget67 said:


> I ordered mine mid March so this isn’t making the wait any easier.  Meanwhile I’m spending on necessary “peripherals“ like headphone cable converters, hearing about how good the TToby amp is, wondering if I’ll need the Dekoni nuggets...ARRRGH!!!  Well, I’ll just need to buy something else while I’m waiting...


Just buy more music and suffer in silence.


----------



## DJJEZ

masteretch said:


> I'm using a Topping D90 / A90 stack. I'm playing around with earpad positioning now. I've bought them new.


I have an A90/D90 in my PC setup. How does it sound with the 1266tc now you rotated the pads? Hoping to game on my pc with them lol


----------



## Gadget67

paradoxper said:


> Just buy more music and suffer in silence.


Yeah...I’m sure my wife would like me to suffer in silence too!  I do have plenty in my HDtracks cart though


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> I ordered March 12th and was told first week of April. Expecting it to be a much longer wait though


Listen to some music and curl up on the couch (if the dog will let you).


----------



## paradoxper

You guys need an Abyss Purgatory group.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 4, 2021)

SuperBurrito said:


> Hi,
> I have the Ttoby as well.  What adapter cable are you using to connect the speaker taps to the balanced headphone cable?


I posted this pic earlier in this thread. Got mine from Moon Audio but I'm sure there are more economical DIY alternatives.


----------



## Gadget67

paradoxper said:


> You guys need an Abyss Purgatory group.


I’m in the lower right...


----------



## SuperBurrito

Orlok said:


> I posted this pic earlier in this thread. Got mine from Moon Audio but I'm sure there are more economical DYI alternatives.


awesome, thank you


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> I posted this pic earlier in this thread. Got mine from Moon Audio but I'm sure there are more economical DYI alternatives.


Thumbs up for Moon Audio.  DIY is cheaper, of course, but I’d want to be sure it worked as expected.  Paying them to make it is cheap insurance IMHO.


----------



## Orlok

Another thing I noticed with using the TToby's speaker taps is that as I turn up the volume, it's not just the volume getting louder. Everything - the soundstage and everything in it - expands in a three-dimensional manner: side-to-side, front-to-back, top-to-bottom - kind of like a balloon expanding as you blow air into it. It's trippy. I guess this is to be expected but the effect is much greater with the TToby than with turning up the volume using the TT2's SE output. And I haven't experienced this phenomena with the TToby driving the SR1a through the interface box. With the TC, it sounds as if the sound universe is going from the Big Bang through the inflationary process. Haha.

Sorry, I'm just lost in the Abyss right now...


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> Another thing I noticed with using the TToby's speaker taps is that as I turn up the volume, it's not just the volume getting louder. Everything - the soundstage and everything in it - expands in a three-dimensional manner: side-to-side, front-to-back, top-to-bottom - kind of like a balloon expanding as you blow air into it. It's trippy. I guess this is to be expected but the effect is much greater with the TToby than with turning up the volume using the TT2's SE output. And I haven't experienced this phenomena with the TToby driving the SR1a through the interface box. With the TC, it sounds as if the sound universe is going from the Big Bang through the inflationary process. Haha.
> 
> Sorry, I'm just lost in the Abyss right now...


You aren’t making the wait any easier...but, seriously, glad it’s working out!  Really anxious to “join the club” so to speak.  Your background and current employment make you a very credible reviewer.


----------



## DJJEZ

Think this applies to everyone in this forum lmao


----------



## Orlok

Gadget67 said:


> You aren’t making the wait any easier...but, seriously, glad it’s working out!  Really anxious to “join the club” so to speak.  Your background and current employment make you a very credible reviewer.


Haha. Sorry. I hope I'm not hyping the TC to some unreasonable heights to be experienced. But, seriously, I now fully understand all the hype I've been reading (and watching on YT) for a few years now. I used to think the same: "Can it _really_ be _that_ good? I'm pretty happy with the LCD-4 and still love the HD800S for some things." At times, I've had doubts and I actually opted to go with the SR1a first. But getting the SR1a and loving it made me want the TC even more. I wanted to get the _full_ experience and my expectations were tempered: I did not expect it to do certain things better than what the SR1a and LCD-4 do really well - even the HD800S which has that super wide soundstage and party trick wow factor. I had very high but realistic expectations.

Yes, I've had this never ending love affair with music and sound so I like to think I know what I'm going for. Hope you get yours soon. It'll certainly be worth the wait and I look forward to your impressions.


----------



## Orlok

DJJEZ said:


> Think this applies to everyone in this forum lmao


Haha. Yeah, applies to guitar gear, tech stuff, sporting goods and whatever else we boys feel we need to accumulate.

When I owned and operated the guitar gear shop, customers would buy and take the guitars, amps or whatever home without the boxes to sneak them in because they said boxes will raise suspicions in their wives/girlfriends. Some local guys went even as far as to ask me to ship something to their friend's home so they could pick the stuff up there and bring the gear home and say they are "borrowing" from the friend. Haha. I would talk to customers and, very often, their anxiety was about how to sneak it in and not get caught or hide the purchase.

Well, this is why I set up my own consulting business entity with a separate bank account and all this stuff is considered a business expense for my job.


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> Haha. Yeah, applies to guitar gear, tech stuff, sporting goods and whatever else we boys feel we need to accumulate.
> 
> When I owned and operated the guitar gear shop, customers would buy and take the guitars, amps or whatever home without the boxes to sneak them in because they said boxes will raise suspicions in their wives/girlfriends. Some local guys went even as far as to ask me to ship something to their friend's home so they could pick the stuff up there and bring the gear home and say they are "borrowing" from the friend. Haha. I would talk to customers and, very often, their anxiety was about how to sneak it in and not get caught or hide the purchase.
> 
> Well, this is why I set up my own consulting business entity with a separate bank account and all this stuff is considered a business expense for my job.


I always find this approach interesting.  My wife knows what everything costs and is even pushing me to buy the DAVE (and I might, eventually).  We each have separate accounts in addition to the joint bill paying account; I buy what I want (within my budget) and she does the same.  My first wife was not as understanding...


----------



## Roasty

Orlok said:


> I posted this pic earlier in this thread. Got mine from Moon Audio but I'm sure there are more economical DIY alternatives.



How are those tabs marked -ve Left and -ve Right attached? Any chance of them falling off?


----------



## jlbrach

thats why she is and was your first wife...I know the drill sadly lol


----------



## Orlok (Apr 4, 2021)

Gadget67 said:


> I always find this approach interesting.  My wife knows what everything costs and is even pushing me to buy the DAVE (and I might, eventually).  We each have separate accounts in addition to the joint bill paying account; I buy what I want (within my budget) and she does the same.  My first wife was not as understanding...


Lucky you! Overall, my wife is very understanding as well and I tell her the prices too. She knows how important this stuff is to me and that men will always be boys and will always want to get their "toys". Well, women have their fetishes with clothes, shoes, handbags, and jewelry, etc. so it works both ways.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 4, 2021)

Roasty said:


> How are those tabs marked -ve Left and -ve Right attached? Any chance of them falling off?


They are attached pretty well and would not be easy to remove. So, no, I don't see them falling off.


----------



## DJJEZ

Orlok said:


> Haha. Yeah, applies to guitar gear, tech stuff, sporting goods and whatever else we boys feel we need to accumulate.
> 
> When I owned and operated the guitar gear shop, customers would buy and take the guitars, amps or whatever home without the boxes to sneak them in because they said boxes will raise suspicions in their wives/girlfriends. *Some local guys went even as far as to ask me to ship something to their friend's home so they could pick the stuff up there and bring the gear home and say they are "borrowing" from the friend.* Haha. I would talk to customers and, very often, their anxiety was about how to sneak it in and not get caught or hide the purchase.
> 
> Well, this is why I set up my own consulting business entity with a separate bank account and all this stuff is considered a business expense for my job.


Lmao


----------



## BrowChan

Orlok said:


> Another thing I noticed with using the TToby's speaker taps is that as I turn up the volume, it's not just the volume getting louder. Everything - the soundstage and everything in it - expands in a three-dimensional manner: side-to-side, front-to-back, top-to-bottom - kind of like a balloon expanding as you blow air into it. It's trippy. I guess this is to be expected but the effect is much greater with the TToby than with turning up the volume using the TT2's SE output. And I haven't experienced this phenomena with the TToby driving the SR1a through the interface box. With the TC, it sounds as if the sound universe is going from the Big Bang through the inflationary process. Haha.
> 
> Sorry, I'm just lost in the Abyss right now...


You might have mentioned it somewhere, but how do you find your LCD-4's bass with your TToby?

Your review on the TC-TToby combo only makes me want to buy more, sigh. Currently, the bass from TT2 SE *is not* cutting for me (HSA-1b had more pronounced bass and was really fun to listen to). I am waiting for my Y-adaptor to arrive next week, and I really hope that will be equal to or better than the HSA-1b bass quantity.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Apr 4, 2021)

qboogie said:


> Got the superconductor HP cable 2 days ago. Immediate impression lines up with a lot of what you guys are saying, lower mids  more forward making vocals more full-bodied and warm. Detail and instrument separation better than stock. Treble is less harsh but loses sparkle. The bass seems more clearly textured, but sadly the bass quantity and slam are reduced. If I could numerate it, I would guess a 10% reduction. Some others have reported the same thing. I really miss the bass from the stock.
> 
> I also tried Norne silvergarde S3-C cable. The bass slam and presence return to the same level as the stock cable, and is just a little more detailed. The treble regains its sparkle but can occasionally get hot. Upper mids are less recessed and thicker than the stock cable, and overall I enjoy this more, but on some recordings the vocals still have a subtle digital glare on them. Wish the lower mids were filled in a tad more. Compared to the Superconductor, the Norne cable separates nearly as well, has more satisfying bass,  a bit more treble energy and less natural mids/vocal tones.
> 
> ...



Really appreciate your impression, I am using silver garde S4. The listening impression is fairly similar.

For the vocals of the 1266, I am also in a similar situation concerning about the vocals. I wish the vocals especially with the lower mids and warmth and more full body could be a bit more with the orginal cable. It would make the abyss 1266 perfect.

Although many may opt for a tube amp to adds for the vocal , for example the WA33 as stated from the Abyss headphone video.  But a well made tube amp is extremely expensive. Especially after you spend 5 grand on a top tier headphone, it may not be easy for a audio enthusiast to spend another 10 grand on a tube amp to make up for the vocals.

But still  the 1266 is already one of the best headphone money can buy, and it already sounds superb. We are only talking about trying to extract the last 5% of the music listening experience.


----------



## OceanRanger

jlbrach said:


> who cares whether you got a better deal or not...to own the danacable and then attack the SC over its cost is kind of ridiculous...for the record the SC is a good upgrade IMHO and like all cables overpriced...it is better IMHO than the already quite good stock cable and IMHO better than the danacable which I used to own...of course it is ALL subjective including value and benefit


Thanks for the post @jlbrach . You are spot on that both value and benefits are quite subjective. I too purchased the SC. I feel that the benefits, both to SQ and to comfort in listening were worth the steep price. For me it was just barely. That said, I am sure that many would disagree. The key is that we all make our own decisions and in this hobby it is important not to (inadvertently) criticize decisions that others have made.


----------



## ctop

paradoxper said:


> You guys need an Abyss Purgatory group.


Count me in that group as I wait for my TC as well as Susvara


----------



## Shahrose

Orlok said:


> Listening through the TToby now... Whoa~ Getting chills and goosebumps...  OMG What a rush! This is another level up - increased clarity, an even bigger soundstage, much improved imaging, it sounds friggin' *HUGE*_. _Makes the TC sound like a totally different HP now. Amazing... Well, it is decided. The TToby has now become my main HP amp. Totally unexpected. I did not expect the improvement to be this great. Although not as I had intended or envisioned, the TToby turned out to be a great investment after all.  This is mind-blowing... I'll have to toggle between the TC and the SR1a through the interface box. I don't expect to use the S400 speakers very much at all now.



This was similar to my reaction when I realized how much the TCs scale with good speaker amps.


----------



## Orlok

BrowChan said:


> You might have mentioned it somewhere, but how do you find your LCD-4's bass with your TToby?
> 
> Your review on the TC-TToby combo only makes me want to buy more, sigh. Currently, the bass from TT2 SE *is not* cutting for me (HSA-1b had more pronounced bass and was really fun to listen to). I am waiting for my Y-adaptor to arrive next week, and I really hope that will be equal to or better than the HSA-1b bass quantity.


The TC's bass with the TToby is big but since the entire soundstage is so greatly expanded, it doesn't take up an inordinate amount of space. To me, the bass on the LCD-4 is a little too prominent and I EQ it to attenuate a bit (2~3dB) from 80hZ down to 20hZ. The TC's bass with TToby is tight, punchy and very _textured_. It's really awesome to hear the details of the bass. My son - who's a guitar player and really _gets_ it in terms of sonic characteristics - mentioned this as well. He was blown away by the bass and said that really stood out. He also mentioned he can hear the "tone" of the bass. But it's not boomy at all. It occupies just the right amount of space within the soundstage and you can really _hear _details of it in harmony with everything else. As of now, I haven't touched the EQ with the TC. I have it set completely flat.

I'm going through my "nostalgia" playlist right now to rediscover some old faves: Bruce Springsteen's 'Born to Run', Donna Summer's 'MacArthur Park', Aerosmith's 'Toys in the Attic', Boston's 'Long Time', EWF's 'Getaway', ELP's 'Karn Evil 9', Billy Joel's 'Piano Man' - all kinds of oldies and they all sound _amazing_! And, yes, I'm hearing bass on these like I never ever have before.


----------



## Stereolab42 (Apr 4, 2021)

I didn't realize until now Abyss had a YouTube channel with tons of entertaining videos. Is that Joe with both his sons in most of those videos? Really cool that JPS is a family business. I especially liked the recent video of them wheeling in two new gigabucks CNC machines to help increase production. Although watching the videos is slow-going because I frequently feel the need to turn off YT and actually listen to my (current) Abyss. It has served me faithfully for so long and shows no signs of slowing down. It doesn't deserve to be sold or thrown in the attic, so I'll make sure to give it a spin every now and then even after my TC comes. It really is a magnificent piece of machinery.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 4, 2021)

So, my wife returned from her weekend visit to a friend's and, of course, I had to show her my latest acquisition. As I expected, she bowed and shook her head with the facepalm laughter and asked, "So, what does this do compared to the other two (SR1a and LCD-4)? Let me guess, it's right in between the two, right?" Yep, my wife knows me well! Haha.

I put the TC on her head, adjusted the frame and the driver angles and played some music. She listened and understood:"So, this headphone isolates the singer and the rest of the band members and puts them in their own spots, huh?" Well, she's a classical piano and composition major so she does understand this kind of stuff pretty well.

And then she added: "No wonder you weren't replying to my texts last night. You got this new toy and were lost in your little bubble world, weren't you? Oh, how happy you must have been... Couldn't care less what I was up to or what I had for dinner. Sigh~" Haha.  "Sorry, honey. Yes, I was indeed lost in the Abyss for a while last night."


----------



## Ciggavelli

When you stare into the Abyss, the Abyss stares back


----------



## Stereolab42

Random observation: The most Abyss-like other headphones I own, and in fact have ever heard, are my Focal Stellias. Which in every aspect other than SQ and price couldn't be more different:

Closed instead of open.
About 20db more sensitive.
Traditional drivers instead of planar.
Fancy French styling instead of, well, Vadar-esque?
Definitely hoping we see closed headphones from Abyss someday. If I had one request it would be to ensure they are actually closed and provide proper isolation, not semi-open. They need to be suitable for an office environment.


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 5, 2021)

Stereolab42 said:


> I didn't realize until now Abyss had a YouTube channel with tons of entertaining videos. Is that Joe with both his sons in most of those videos? Really cool that JPS is a family business. I especially liked the recent video of them wheeling in two new gigabucks CNC machines to help increase production. Although watching the videos is slow-going because I frequently feel the need to turn off YT and actually listen to my (current) Abyss. It has served me faithfully for so long and shows no signs of slowing down. It doesn't deserve to be sold or thrown in the attic, so I'll make sure to give it a spin every now and then even after my TC comes. It really is a magnificent piece of machinery.


Yes it's Joe with his sons. They make fantastic content. Really enjoyed watching their videos, I learnt so much and the passion really shows. I'm Always excited when their new videos drop


----------



## Orlok

BrowChan said:


> You might have mentioned it somewhere, but how do you find your LCD-4's bass with your TToby?
> 
> Your review on the TC-TToby combo only makes me want to buy more, sigh. Currently, the bass from TT2 SE *is not* cutting for me (HSA-1b had more pronounced bass and was really fun to listen to). I am waiting for my Y-adaptor to arrive next week, and I really hope that will be equal to or better than the HSA-1b bass quantity.


BTW, as I mentioned, going from TT2's SE to XLRs is a very noticeable improvement but I do not know what the HSA-1b is like so I can't comment on whether the TT2's XLRs will match it. Hope that the XLRs will be satisfactory for you but, if it isn't, seems you'll have to look at another option...

Personally, I've never been a bass head but the TC with the TToby is making me appreciate it in a whole new way. It's no longer something I just sense and feel in the back behind the voice and all the midrange instruments, drums, cymbals, etc. I'm really _hearing_ it in detail as well as getting that thumping visceral punch to the chest. What's amazing is that it's still so well balanced and in its place along with everything else.


----------



## mammal

Orlok said:


> I hope I'm not hyping the TC to some unreasonable heights to be experienced. But, seriously, I now fully understand all the hype I've been reading (and watching on YT) for a few years now


It's incredible what guys at Abyss have managed to pull off. For those who read the whole forum (yes, all 995 pages) like I did, you would notice that in the beginning (year 2013) everyone was very skeptical of AB-1266 and was calling it too expensive, will never make it, just buy STAX, etc. Then revisions like Phi (first driver upgrade), Phi CC (no driver change) and now TC (driver upgrade again), I just can't wait to hear what else has Abyss in store for us in the coming years!


----------



## mammal

DJJEZ said:


> Yes it's Joe with his sons. They make fantastic content. Really enjoyed watching their videos, I learnt so much and the passion really shows. I'm Always excited when their new videos drop


These videos is what got me back to head-fi. Saw their Airpods Max video (the most viewed video they have) and I was like "who are these three cool fellows? Since then I watched all of their videos (some of them multiple times, like the one about headphone amplifiers) and purchased both Diana V2 and AB-1266 TC. I don't think I would have done this if DMS and Abyss did not create those videos, so good on them!


----------



## mammal

Stereolab42 said:


> Definitely hoping we see closed headphones from Abyss someday.


In one of their Youtube videos they have actually said they are working on 3 products right now - finishing closed back (drivers are ready, now it's on Eric to finish the frame), IEMs (unsure how far they are) and one more (big) thing they are working on (not a clue what that is, since they were griming but did not want to hint on what exactly it is).


----------



## Solan

makan said:


> Have a question for you folks.  I have a Diana Phi and 1266 TC....may keep both.


How similar and how different are the 1266 TC and the Diana Phi? Both in terms of sound and in terms of wearability?


----------



## makan

Solan said:


> How similar and how different are the 1266 TC and the Diana Phi? Both in terms of sound and in terms of wearability?


Cut from the same cloth, but the TC just does everything better. The Diana phi is more portable and more comfortable and I would say 90% or more of the TC. I have a HE1000SE for the last couple of months, and am pretty close to deciding to sell the SE and keep the Diana phi.   For the Diana phi, I think for most people, it is crucial to get the DMS MOD ear pads to ensure them to be comfortable.


----------



## mammal

makan said:


> I think for most people, it is crucial to get the DMS MOD ear pads to ensure them to be comfortable.


They no longer offer it, as they have recently updated the design to be something between the old and DMS.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Ciggavelli said:


> When you stare into the Abyss, the Abyss stares back


----------



## paradoxper

mammal said:


> It's incredible what guys at Abyss have managed to pull off. For those who read the whole forum (yes, all 995 pages) like I did, you would notice that in the beginning (year 2013) everyone was very skeptical of AB-1266 and was calling it too expensive, will never make it, just buy STAX, etc. Then revisions like Phi (first driver upgrade), Phi CC (no driver change) and now TC (driver upgrade again), I just can't wait to hear what else has Abyss in store for us in the coming years!


Nods. I definitely felt they were invading. They were also rough around the SQ. 

Now...the TC has ruined STAX! And I've become a bit of a bass-head! 

Abyssnormality.


----------



## Orlok

Another thing I told my wife to justify the 1266 TC was that, to experience this type of SQ from a 2-channel system, we'd need to spend minimum $50K, perhaps $100K+ in speakers and appropriate power amp. So I explained that $5K for this headphone is actually an _amazing_ value. I told her as I presented my case: "We are getting $100K sound for $5K!". After listening to the TC for a bit, she nodded in agreement and then walked out without any more fuss. The TC has been fully approved by my wife and I can now enjoy with a peace of mind.


----------



## jlbrach

tell her to mind her business and move on lol


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> Another thing I told my wife to justify the 1266 TC was that, to experience this type of SQ from a 2-channel system, we'd need to spend minimum $50K, perhaps $100K+ in speakers and appropriate power amp. So I explained that $5K for this headphone is actually an _amazing_ value. I told her as I presented my case: "We are getting $100K sound for $5K!". After listening to the TC for a bit, she nodded in agreement and then walked out without any more fuss. The TC has been fully approved by my wife and I can now enjoy with a peace of mind.


Don’t forget the cost of the special room you’d need to add to house a dedicated 2.1 channel system and the lawyers you’d need to hire to respond to the complaints citing the California noise control and abatement act of 1970.


----------



## Gadget67

jlbrach said:


> tell her to mind her business and move on lol


I’m sure there’s room here if she asked him to move on instead...


----------



## ra990

Someone recently asked if you can listen to the 1266 while lying down and I incorrectly assumed no. But, last night, I gave it a try and it worked surprisingly well. Obviously you can't move your head much once you have it in position, but if you lie face up and just position them around you on the pillow, it works nicely. I drifted off to sleep listening to some nice ambient music.


----------



## DJJEZ

ra990 said:


> Someone recently asked if you can listen to the 1266 while lying down and I incorrectly assumed no. But, last night, I gave it a try and it worked surprisingly well. Obviously you can't move your head much once you have it in position, but if you lie face up and just position them around you on the pillow, it works nicely. I drifted off to sleep listening to some nice ambient music.


It was me who asked. That's awesome to hear


----------



## Orlok

ra990 said:


> Someone recently asked if you can listen to the 1266 while lying down and I incorrectly assumed no. But, last night, I gave it a try and it worked surprisingly well. Obviously you can't move your head much once you have it in position, but if you lie face up and just position them around you on the pillow, it works nicely. I drifted off to sleep listening to some nice ambient music.


Maybe I'm lucky - especially after having read various comments for a long time about the 1266 not being comfortable, being too heavy, not fitting properly, needing a lot of fidgeting to get the right sound and balance, etc. - but I just haven't had any such issues _at all_. To me, it's more comfortable than the SR1a (which is a good deal lighter but can easily shift out of the ideal position you set when you move your head even slightly) or the LCD-4, which I also find comfortable despite its weight. 

The 1266 feels very light in comparison and sits in place perfectly on my head, even when I do some light head banging to metal. Haha. And I know that it wouldn't be a problem at all to listen to it lying down although I don't have a bed in my home office. I have to admit that I did have some concerns about the whole comfort, fit, adjustment issue but it has turned out to be the most comfortable over-ears cans in my stable. I also really like it that there isn't the typical clamping pressure of most headphones. But, I suppose it's "YMMV" like with anything else.


----------



## qboogie

qboogie said:


> Got the superconductor HP cable 2 days ago. Immediate impression lines up with a lot of what you guys are saying, lower mids  more forward making vocals more full-bodied and warm. Detail and instrument separation better than stock. Treble is less harsh but loses sparkle. The bass seems more clearly textured, but sadly the bass quantity and slam are reduced. If I could numerate it, I would guess a 10% reduction. Some others have reported the same thing. I really miss the bass from the stock.
> 
> I also tried Norne silvergarde S3-C cable. The bass slam and presence return to the same level as the stock cable, and is just a little more detailed. The treble regains its sparkle but can occasionally get hot. Upper mids are less recessed and thicker than the stock cable, and overall I enjoy this more, but on some recordings the vocals still have a subtle digital glare on them. Wish the lower mids were filled in a tad more. Compared to the Superconductor, the Norne cable separates nearly as well, has more satisfying bass,  a bit more treble energy and less natural mids/vocal tones.
> 
> ...


Let me update this. The Superconductor is now my preferred cable for most of the music I listen to (mostly modern with vocals). It just sounds very balanced. The improved mids is worth the slight bass reduction. The tradeoff is something I can definitely live with


----------



## Solan

makan said:


> Cut from the same cloth, but the TC just does everything better. The Diana phi is more portable and more comfortable and I would say 90% or more of the TC. I have a HE1000SE for the last couple of months, and am pretty close to deciding to sell the SE and keep the Diana phi.   For the Diana phi, I think for most people, it is crucial to get the DMS MOD ear pads to ensure them to be comfortable.


I was considering the SE, but have been so impressed by Abyss build quality alone that I think Abyss is the way to go. It eases my decision to hear you have judged it that way based on sound as well. But just to close the lid: How similar and dissimilar are HE1000SE and Diana Phi?


----------



## Solan

Orlok said:


> Another thing I told my wife to justify the 1266 TC was that, to experience this type of SQ from a 2-channel system, we'd need to spend minimum $50K, perhaps $100K+ in speakers and appropriate power amp. So I explained that $5K for this headphone is actually an _amazing_ value. I told her as I presented my case: "We are getting $100K sound for $5K!". After listening to the TC for a bit, she nodded in agreement and then walked out without any more fuss. The TC has been fully approved by my wife and I can now enjoy with a peace of mind.


You could also just tell or that it's that, or you take up smoking and drinking. Where I come from, smokers easily burn up that kind of money every year or two - and have nothing to show for it at the end of each period!


----------



## MatW

Solan said:


> You could also just tell or that it's that, or you take up smoking and drinking. Where I come from, smokers easily burn up that kind of money every year or two - and have nothing to show for it at the end of each period!


A shorter life expectancy is not nothing...


----------



## Benny-x

Shahrose said:


> This was similar to my reaction when I realized how much the TCs scale with good speaker amps.


Which speaker sample are you mostly running the Abyss off of now?


----------



## vonBaron

I own Lazuli Ultra and i don't think i need spend aditional $$ for SC. It sound great with 1266 too!


----------



## mammal

vonBaron said:


> i don't think i need spend aditional $$ for SC.


But how can you be 100% sure without auditioning it first? (just a tease, haha).


----------



## vonBaron

I can't but price of SC keep me from doing that lol!


----------



## Solan

MatW said:


> A shorter life expectancy is not nothing...


True. Take up head-fi, and prolong your life!   (as opposed to smoking or any of the other alternative money sinkholes)

Aside from that you have probably heard of the one life-shortening worry: that you should one day come home and find that your wife has sold your headphone collection for what you _said_ you'd paid for it ...


----------



## mammal (Apr 6, 2021)

Gadget67 said:


> I’m sure there’s room here if she asked him to move on instead...


I mean anyone who lives here with AB-1266 can definitely fend for themselves. Just think about how one can use these headphones to make fire, as a pillow, dig a hole, hunt animals. And if you have a good high end tube amp, you can also heat the space, make a meal, what else would you want in life, haha.


----------



## Solan

Stereolab42 said:


> Random observation: The most Abyss-like other headphones I own, and in fact have ever heard, are my Focal Stellias. Which in every aspect other than SQ and price couldn't be more different:
> 
> Closed instead of open.
> About 20db more sensitive.
> ...


I wrote and asked them just that. They replied:

_We’re working on completing a closed back Diana. No date is set as to when we will find the time to complete this, estimating later this year.

IEM’s are next on the list._


----------



## Mh996

Well, I took the plunge and bought a used TToby at a pretty good price. It'll take a little while to travel across the pond and make it through customs, but I'll add my anecdote once it's here and I have time to familiarize myself with the sound and compare to my TT2. Thanks to Orlok for pioneering this pairing. I've suspected the TToby would pair really well with the 1266 for a while.


----------



## mammal

Mh996 said:


> I'll add my anecdote once it's here and I have time to familiarize myself with the sound and compare to my TT2


Thank you for doing this! Do you also happen to have the XLR adapter, or just using SE?


----------



## Spawn300Z

TToby is a great unit. I have 2 of them in my setup.


----------



## Mh996

mammal said:


> Thank you for doing this! Do you also happen to have the XLR adapter, or just using SE?


Rear XLRs


----------



## Tarttett

Orlok said:


> Maybe I'm lucky - especially after having read various comments for a long time about the 1266 not being comfortable, being too heavy, not fitting properly, needing a lot of fidgeting to get the right sound and balance, etc. - but I just haven't had any such issues _at all_. To me, it's more comfortable than the SR1a (which is a good deal lighter but can easily shift out of the ideal position you set when you move your head even slightly) or the LCD-4, which I also find comfortable despite its weight.
> 
> The 1266 feels very light in comparison and sits in place perfectly on my head, even when I do some light head banging to metal. Haha. And I know that it wouldn't be a problem at all to listen to it lying down although I don't have a bed in my home office. I have to admit that I did have some concerns about the whole comfort, fit, adjustment issue but it has turned out to be the most comfortable over-ears cans in my stable. I also really like it that there isn't the typical clamping pressure of most headphones. But, I suppose it's "YMMV" like with anything else.


I believe that you possibly would be able to adjust your SR1as, to make them fit more appropriately for the shape, and for the size, for your head, to make them less easily shifted when you move.

This video, that was posted by RAAL-requisite, shows how you possibly would experiment with attempting to achieve that fit that would be more secure for you: .


----------



## Stereolab42

Solan said:


> I wrote and asked them just that. They replied:
> 
> _We’re working on completing a closed back Diana. No date is set as to when we will find the time to complete this, estimating later this year.
> 
> IEM’s are next on the list._


Interesting. If the Stellias have one big downside, it's the high sensitivity. Extremely hard to find a single amp that can handle it with no background noise and also power electron-slurpers like the Abyss. Also makes it nerve-wracking to switch back and forth between the two, you always have to double-check you adjusted gains/volume properly or risk going instantly deaf, blowing out a driver, or both. Hopefully the closed Diana will be closer to the open Abyss products in that regard and also will have good isolation, I'd be all over that.


----------



## Gadget67

Stereolab42 said:


> Interesting. If the Stellias have one big downside, it's the high sensitivity. Extremely hard to find a single amp that can handle it with no background noise and also power electron-slurpers like the Abyss. Also makes it nerve-wracking to switch back and forth between the two, you always have to double-check you adjusted gains/volume properly or risk going instantly deaf, blowing out a driver, or both. Hopefully the closed Diana will be closer to the open Abyss products in that regard and also will have good isolation, I'd be all over that.


I own the Stellia (and Utopia) and find the TT2 drives them very well from the 1/4” headphone ports on the front.  The XLR’s on the back seem to be satisfactory for others as far as the 1266 is concerned but @Orlok has opened Pandora’s box with his commentary about the TToby.  I am still waiting for my 1266 to arrive, but I do have some experience with higher impedance headphones and I can see that more power is a good thing for squeezing the most out of them.  I’m sure at some point I’ll try driving them from my Chord 2650 speaker amp but I’m sure hoping to be happy with either the TT2 or my Phonitor 2 which has no trouble driving my Sennheiser 600’s (300 ohm impedance) to insane levels if I want.  Now I just live vicariously through @Orlok’s commentary...


----------



## Orlok

Tarttett said:


> I believe that you possibly would be able to adjust your SR1as, to make them fit more appropriately for the shape, and for the size, for your head, to make them less easily shifted when you move.
> 
> This video, that was posted by RAAL-requisite, shows how you possibly would experiment with attempting to achieve that fit that would be more secure for you: .



Yes, I have seen this video at least a few times. Overall, the SR1a fits fine and is never in danger of falling off my head or anything like that during my listening sessions. The only thing, for me, is the forward/back movement of the wings in relation to my ears. Even a half-inch movement either way affects the bass response quite a bit so I find that I need to adjust that sweet spot a bit if I bow my head slightly to look down or something like that. That's all. I was just saying that, in comparison, the TC stays put quite well on my head.


----------



## OceanRanger

Orlok said:


> Yes, I have seen this video at least a few times. Overall, the SR1a fits fine and is never in danger of falling off my head or anything like that during my listening sessions. The only thing, for me, is the forward/back movement of the wings in relation to my ears. Even a half-inch movement either way affects the bass response quite a bit so I find that I need to adjust that sweet spot a bit if I bow my head slightly to look down or something like that. That's all. I was just saying that, in comparison, the TC stays put quite well on my head.


@Orlok you've provided some awesome thoughts on the TCs and the Hugo TT stack, thanks so much. I have very much enjoyed reading through your comments! I think that it is time to delete the "coming soon" comment in your signature.


----------



## Orlok

Mh996 said:


> Well, I took the plunge and bought a used TToby at a pretty good price. It'll take a little while to travel across the pond and make it through customs, but I'll add my anecdote once it's here and I have time to familiarize myself with the sound and compare to my TT2. Thanks to Orlok for pioneering this pairing. I've suspected the TToby would pair really well with the 1266 for a while.


It was @Spawn300Z who inspired me to proceed after reading about how well the TToby performed with his Susvara so my credit goes to him. I really knew nothing about driving a headphone with a speaker amp and that sounded a little crazy to me at first. But, _now_, I really _get_ it.


----------



## Orlok

OceanRanger said:


> @Orlok you've provided some awesome thoughts on the TCs and the Hugo TT stack, thanks so much. I have very much enjoyed reading through your comments! I think that it is time to delete the "coming soon" comment in your signature.


Ah, forgot about that completely. I rearranged my list of HPs in alphabetical order so it doesn't seem I'm biased towards one or the other. Abyss just ended up at the front unintentionally.


----------



## Shahrose

Benny-x said:


> Which speaker sample are you mostly running the Abyss off of now?



All of the ones from my signature except the CODA which is in transit currently.


----------



## vonBaron

1266 TC are best HP for metal music EOT!


----------



## Ciggavelli

vonBaron said:


> 1266 TC are best HP for metal music EOT!


I agree, except for Black Metal. I love black metal out of the Susvaras. The slightly laid back signature of the Susvaras mixes well with harsh black metal.


----------



## vonBaron

Well i don't listen black and death


----------



## OceanRanger

vonBaron said:


> Well i don't listen black and death


I'm just feeling like I need to get better educated on the sub-genres of metal....


----------



## Orlok

vonBaron said:


> Well i don't listen black and death


But black and death are totally different! Really.


----------



## Ciggavelli

OceanRanger said:


> I'm just feeling like I need to get better educated on the sub-genres of metal....


I can help  

Death - Double bass and Cookie Monster vocals

Black - Double bass with screeching vocals. Almost exclusively satanic

Grind- Insanely fast metal

Doom- Slow metal. 

Then of course there are sub-genres with all of those above genres. Like Doom can go to Funeral Doom (even slower suicidal metal) or to Stoner rock


----------



## MatW (Apr 6, 2021)

vonBaron said:


> Well i don't listen black and death


Within metal, it's probably the following order for me: black, death, doom, progressive, post, heavy, power, thrash. And I greatly enjoy the hybrids like progressive death and death/doom. Today I even listened to a blackened doom album, a rarity haha...


----------



## Ciggavelli

MatW said:


> Within metal, it's probably the following order for me: black, death, doom, progressive, heavy. And I greatly enjoy the hybrids like progressive death and death/doom. Today I even listened to a blackened doom album, a rarity haha...


Oryx or Culted for the blackened doom?


----------



## vonBaron

Power - disco metal (i like)

Heavy - not that heavy...

Progresive - 10min guitar and keyboard solo

Gothic - sometimes can be nice

Alternative - almost anthing else


----------



## MatW

By the way, this is an awesome metal/rock album, one of my favorites of 2020. Reminds me of Tool but it's very diverse. There's even some reggae and dance in there somewhere. With good headphones this is a real treat for music lovers with a broad taste!


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> I agree, except for Black Metal. I love black metal out of the Susvaras. The slightly laid back signature of the Susvaras mixes well with harsh black metal.


Haven't really delved into black and death metal on a personal listening level. I'm more into classic metal and the more recent Djent kinds of stuff but I have dealt with black and death metal artists. I grew up listening to the likes of Iron Maiden, early Scorpions, Ozzy, and then got into Metallica and Megadeth. More recently (like last 4~5 years), it's been the likes of Meshuggah, Animals as Leaders, Periphery and Strapping Young Lad (Devin Townsend). I also like some prog metal like Opeth and Symphony X but haven't listened to them in many years. Big fan of guitarist Jeff Loomis. Lots to like in metal and the TC is definitely pushing me back into this realm again.


----------



## vonBaron

This is way better, for me its my biggest supprise of years!


----------



## MatW

vonBaron said:


> This is way better, for me its my biggest supprise of years!



Soen is also one of my favorites. This song is from their previous album, but I'm sure you've checked out their latest.


----------



## MatW

Ciggavelli said:


> Oryx or Culted for the blackened doom?


Little known band from Canada: Nepenthe.


----------



## vonBaron

MatW said:


> Soen is also one of my favorites. This song is from their previous album, but I'm sure you've checked out their latest.


I listen Imperial 10x times


----------



## Orlok (Apr 7, 2021)

Changing the topic a bit here but, listening to the TC almost every waking minute over the past 4~5 days, I've found that I'm going through my old classic rock, blues and pop favorites and I'm really surprised how good it sounds for these mid-60's through early-80's kinds of stuff. Honestly, I wasn't expecting that. I thought the TC would be a little too resolving, hifi, analytical, refined and transparent for these genres and lose some of the grit, bite, raunch, midrange body, richness, and that lo-fi charm and vibe they exude but that has not been the case at all. It's one reason that I had been eyeing the ZMF VC and a matching tube amp to suit those genres better since fans of that rig really seem to be into these genres and have no interest in even hearing what it would sound like for classical, jazz and other nuanced stuff.

But, now, as I listen to the likes of the Beatles, Beach Boys, Van Morrison, Cream, Zeppelin, B.B. King, Stevie Ray Vaughn, the Clash, Tom Petty, the Pretenders and stuff like that from these bygone eras with the TC, I'm finding that they all sound great and still retain that edginess and vibe I mentioned. I adjust the pads a bit from tune to tune and the filter and cross-feed settings on the TT2 a bit but, overall, nothing else really needs to be done. Eventually, I may set up several EQ presets for different genres, artists and recordings but any tweaks would be very slight as everything already sounds so good set flat.

Very, very cool... This has been the most pleasant surprise of using the TC. I expected it to be great for electronic, EDM, hip hop, metal, modern pop, soundtracks and even classical and jazz and they all sound as expected. But, when I started going through all the old stuff, I was amazed by how good and _authentic _it all sounded. And I'm quite certain that I will be able to make it sound even better as time goes by with more EQ tweaks and other gear in the future. It really seems that the TC will be able to scale musically in any and every single direction that I decide to go.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Apr 6, 2021)

Orlok said:


> Changing the topic a bit here but, listening to the TC almost every waking minute over the past 4~5 days, I've found that I'm going through my old classic rock, blues and pop favorites and I'm really surprised how good it sounds for these mid-60's through early-80's kinds of stuff. Honestly, I wasn't expecting that. I thought the TC would be a little too resolving, hifi, analytical, refined and transparent for these genres and lose some of the grit, bite, raunch, midrange body, richness, and that lo-fi charm and vibe they exude but that has not been the case at all. It's one reason that I had been eyeing the ZMF VC and a matching tube amp to suit those genres better since fans of that rig really seem to be into these genres and have no interest in even hearing what it would sound like for classical, jazz and other nuanced stuff.
> 
> But, now, as I listen to the likes of the Beatles, Beach Boys, Van Morrison, Cream, Zeppelin, B.B. King, Stevie Ray Vaughn, the Clash, Tom Petty, the Pretenders and stuff like that from these bygone eras with the TC, I'm find they all sound great and still retain that edginess and vibe I mentioned. I adjust the pads a bit from tune to tune and the filter and cross-feed settings on the TT2 a bit but, overall, nothing else really needs to be done. Eventually, I may set up several EQ presets for different genres, artists and recordings but any tweaks would be very slight as everything already sounds so good set flat.
> 
> Very, very cool... This has been the most pleasant surprise of using the TC. I expected it to be great for electronic, EDM, hip hop, metal, modern pop, soundtracks and even classical and jazz and they all sound as expected. But, when I started going through all the old stuff, I was amazed by how good and _authentic _it all sounded. And I'm quite certain that I will be able to make it sound even better as time goes by with more EQ tweaks and other gear in the future. It really seems that the TC will be able to scale musically in any and every single direction that I decide to go.


Now all you need is a DAVE  

I think the TC does all genres I throw at it really well.

I had the VCs, sold ‘em. They are just not up to the level of the Susvaras or TCs. But, to be fair, they also cost less, so maybe that’s it. I don’t really know why people love the VCs to be honest though


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> Now all you need is a DAVE
> 
> I think the TC does all genres I throw at it really well.
> 
> I had the VCs, sold ‘em. They are just not up to the level of the Susvaras or TCs. But, to be fair, they also cost less, so maybe that’s it. I don’t really know why people love the VCs to be honest though


Haha. Yeah, someday...

I read that the ZMF HPs really need tube amps to shine so, in effect, the VC or VO with a matching tube amp would end up costing as much as the TC or Susvara. I'm curious and I hope to try it out when the situation gets more normal. After experiencing the TC, I've honestly lost interest in it. I'd rather optimize my system to get more out of what I already have and eventually add the Susvara to round out the collection.


----------



## paradoxper

Orlok said:


> Haven't really delved into black and death metal on a personal listening level. I'm more into classic metal and the more recent Djent kinds of stuff but I have dealt with black and death metal artists. I grew up listening to the likes of Iron Maiden, early Scorpions, Ozzy, and then got into Metallica and Megadeth. More recently (like last 4~5 years), it's been the likes of Meshuggah, Animals as Leaders, Periphery and Strapping Young Lad (Devin Townsend). I also like some prog metal like Opeth and Symphony X but haven't listened to them in many years. Big fan of guitarist Jeff Loomis. Lots to like in metal and the TC is definitely pushing me back into this realm again.


BTBAM. For the love of Christ!!!!


----------



## DJJEZ

Orlok said:


> Haha. Yeah, someday...
> 
> I read that the ZMF HPs really need tube amps to shine so, in effect, the VC or VO with a matching tube amp would end up costing as much as the TC or Susvara. I'm curious and I hope to try it out when the situation gets more normal. After experiencing the TC, I've honestly lost interest in it. _*I'd rather optimize my system to get more out of what I already have and eventually add the Susvara to round out the collection.*_


This is definitely the way to go and I plan to do exactly the same


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Apr 6, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> I had the VCs, sold ‘em. They are just not up to the level of the Susvaras or TCs. But, to be fair, they also cost less, so maybe that’s it. I don’t really know why people love the VCs to be honest though


They are also not up to the level of the Stellia. I had the two side by side, and it is so obvious that the Focal is the technically more capable headphone. The VC is a cute work of art (for those who like handmade boutique stuff), but all this praise is totally puzzling.


----------



## Orlok

Hoegaardener70 said:


> They are also not up to the level of the Stellia. I had the two side by side, and it is so obvious that the Focal is the technically more capable headphone. The VC is a cute work of art (for those who like handmade boutique stuff), but all this praise is totally puzzling.


Well, just as some Susvara owners find the praise for TC puzzling, we just have to accept that people hear things differently and they really like it and bond with it for some reason that others can't. I kind of get it and certainly wasn't expecting the technical performance of the VC to equal that of TC, Susvara, SR1a and LCD-4. But, sometimes, the technically "inferior" kind of thing may sound better for certain things. I've certainly experienced that with guitar gear. 

Sometimes that "lo-fi" kind of thing may be exactly what classic rock (think 70's stuff like Pat Travers, Robin Trower, Mountain, T-Rex, Grateful Dead, early Black Sabbath, etc.), blues a la Buddy Guy and Muddy Waters, southern rock a la Allman Brothers and Gov't Mule, stoner rock, and on and on. I think it's about getting a certain kind of sweaty vibe than pristine technically virtuosic performance. I'm still curious about the VC with a tube amp like something from ampsandsound, DNA, Feliks, or Eddie Current and would love to hear it.


----------



## JLoud

I agree, sometimes the detail can get in the way. Something can just sound "right" and not be the most detailed. Or accurate or what have you. I had a ZMF Aeolus and that is how I felt about it. Other headphones were "Better" but not necessarily more musical. The key is finding what just sounds right to you. I'm still searching for the One that does it all. May never find it but sure is fun looking for it.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 7, 2021)

JLoud said:


> I agree, sometimes the detail can get in the way. Something can just sound "right" and not be the most detailed. Or accurate or what have you. I had a ZMF Aeolus and that is how I felt about it. Other headphones were "Better" but not necessarily more musical. The key is finding what just sounds right to you. I'm still searching for the One that does it all. May never find it but sure is fun looking for it.


Yeah, some ZMF fans told me that they actually preferred the Aeolus over the VC or VO. Having lived and breathed the electric guitar for most of my life and still dealing with it at a professional level, my ears are especially sensitive to the sound of it whenever I listen to rock music. And, until now, I really haven't heard the electric guitar sounds to my liking with the audiophile headphones and gear I've owned and tried. It's like, _to my ears_, they are all great for _everything_ *except* the electric guitar sounds, but especially so within the classic rock and blues genres.

To me, the electric guitars for these genres don't sound quite right with the SR1a and the LCD-4. It's a little too bright, detailed and piercing with the SR1a and a little too tubby, refined and smooth with the LCD-4. The acoustic guitars sound _amazing_ with the SR1a, as does the voice and all acoustic instruments in general. The same with the LCD-4 but in a totally different way. I especially love vocal music, small ensemble jazz, chamber music and things like that with the LCD-4.

So I'm going through my rock library (which I really haven't been listening to a lot recently) with the TC and I'm blown away by how great the electric guitars sound. It reminded me of hearing great rock players playing in studios or live on stage at concerts. I can hear the details of the pick attack and release, their vibrato, how they are sustaining the notes, the intonation of the string bends, the character of the woods and other components in the guitar, the tubes in the amps and things like that as if I was in a room listening to them a few feet away from their amps and speaker cabinets. The same thing with the electric bass. I can now hear that someone is playing a Rickenbacker bass or a Fender Precision or a Fender Jazz, etc. and appreciate how these tones fit in the overall mix.

Yeah, that search for the "Holy Grail" is fun but it can also get frustrating and you always feel like you are never quite there. But I guess that's why we are here and we keep reaching for it.


----------



## Orlok

paradoxper said:


> BTBAM. For the love of Christ!!!!


BTBAM? A band name or some term that I'm not up to speed on?


----------



## JLoud

Orlok said:


> BTBAM? A band name or some term that I'm not up to speed on?


I'm curious too.


----------



## paradoxper

Orlok said:


> BTBAM? A band name or some term that I'm not up to speed on?


Oh, a treat.


----------



## JLoud

Not my normal cup of tea, but I really digged the drums.


----------



## paradoxper

JLoud said:


> Not my normal cup of tea, but I really digged the drums.


That album Coma Ecliptic is probably among their more clean prog style, Colors is quite heavier and esteemed as their most accomplished work.


----------



## Orlok

paradoxper said:


> Oh, a treat.



Ah, Between the Buried and Me... I have the 'Parallax II: Future Sequence" album but it's been a long while. Yeah, I can get into this but I'd need to take off my other hat(s) and put the metal hat on and get in the mood for it. Thanks! That's intense on many levels.


----------



## paradoxper

Orlok said:


> Ah, Between the Buried and Me... I have the 'Parallax II: Future Sequence" album but it's been a long while. Yeah, I can get into this but I'd need to take off my other hat(s) and put the metal hat on and get in the mood for it. Thanks! That's intense on many levels.


I knew you must have known. When you put the metal hat on check out both Automata albums.


----------



## Orlok

paradoxper said:


> I knew you must have known. When you put the metal hat on check out both Automata albums.


Alright, will definitely do. TC will definitely make it easier for me to put the metal hat on more often. Seriously, metal has never sounded so good! And with these posts we have taken this TC thread over the millennium mark! Haha


----------



## Orlok

paradoxper said:


> I knew you must have known. When you put the metal hat on check out both Automata albums.


Okay, I have favorited these, 'Coma Ecliptic', and 'Colors' on Qobuz to return to later.


----------



## paradoxper (Apr 7, 2021)

Orlok said:


> Alright, will definitely do. TC will definitely make it easier for me to put the metal hat on more often. Seriously, metal has never sounded so good! And with these posts we have taken this TC thread over the millennium mark! Haha


That's because the TC is the best no matter what those sus boys say.


----------



## Orlok

paradoxper said:


> That's because the TC is the best no matter what those sus boys say.


Hehe, we TC boys should take the high road here now.


----------



## JLoud

Where's the fun in that.


----------



## paradoxper

Orlok said:


> Hehe, we TC boys should take the high road here now.


Na.


JLoud said:


> Where's the fun in that.


Ya.


----------



## ra990

I have to echo the user that says his favorite are the last ones he had on his head.


----------



## BrowChan (Apr 7, 2021)

Let's all take a moment to celebrate reaching 1000 pages of this Abyss...


----------



## sn0gl0be

Have been waiting for this moment, congrats abyss and abyss community


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> Yeah, that search for the "Holy Grail" is fun but it can also get frustrating and you always feel like you are never quite there. But I guess that's why we are here and we keep reaching for it.


There is still money in my account so obviously I’m not there yet...


----------



## mammal

Orlok said:


> Yeah, that search for the "Holy Grail" is fun but it can also get frustrating and you always feel like you are never quite there. But I guess that's why we are here and we keep reaching for it.


I miss the time when I was looking at "more affordable" (to my wallet) gear, as I was able to buy both and then sell one for a loss. Now any side-grade costs as much as TOTL headphone and a true-blind-buy-gear-everyone-agrees-on type of an upgrade gear costs like a small collection of headphones. This reminds me of fitness - when you are not accustomed to train, early gains are not impressive, but are linear/predictable/reliable, once you get to the upper echelon of fitness, you may not see gains for months, yet you are training as hard as ever. This brings me to the age old saying - we are all enjoying the journey here, but sometimes get frustrated with what we don't have, rather than satisfied with where we are right now.


----------



## DJJEZ

mammal said:


> _*I miss the time when I was looking at "more affordable" (to my wallet) gear, as I was able to buy both and then sell one for a loss.*_ Now any side-grade costs as much as TOTL headphone and a true-blind-buy-gear-everyone-agrees-on type of an upgrade gear costs like a small collection of headphones. This reminds me of fitness - when you are not accustomed to train, early gains are not impressive, but are linear/predictable/reliable, once you get to the upper echelon of fitness, you may not see gains for months, yet you are training as hard as ever. This brings me to the age old saying - we are all enjoying the journey here, but sometimes get frustrated with what we don't have, rather than satisfied with where we are right now.


Where do you live? In the UK we are able to buy audio gear and listen to it for a month and return for a full refund if we are not happy...we just have to notified the store within 14 days of receiving the item that we want to return it but have up to 30 days total till it has to be returned.


----------



## mammal

DJJEZ said:


> Where do you live?


In Switzerland there are shops for 2-channel that are willing to work with you, but for high end headphone gear there is really just one store, they are super helpful, but most gear they do not have in stock (like AB-1266) so no way of even testing it at home. Some other things they do have and are willing to help you out, but even then there are limits in what they can do. No way of buying let's say Formula S, having it for a month and then deciding. As far as returns go, that's not very common here (except for one shop that sells electronics, but they don't have high end audio gear) and even there you get hit with 10% restock fee. I have managed to convince some shops when I bought something and wanted to upgrade for something else (more expensive), they worked with me and gave me a decent price (so did not need to sell first). Some equipment you can audition at the dealer, and during Pandemic they were willing to lend you stuff for a week, but again, not as liquid market as in the states or in the uk, what a pity.


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 7, 2021)

mammal said:


> In Switzerland there are shops for 2-channel that are willing to work with you, but for high end headphone gear there is really just one store, they are super helpful, but most gear they do not have in stock (like AB-1266) so no way of even testing it at home. Some other things they do have and are willing to help you out, but even then there are limits in what they can do. No way of buying let's say Formula S, having it for a month and then deciding. _*As far as returns go, that's not very common here (except for one shop that sells electronics, but they don't have high end audio gear) and even there you get hit with 10% restock fee*_. I have managed to convince some shops when I bought something and wanted to upgrade for something else (more expensive), they worked with me and gave me a decent price (so did not need to sell first). Some equipment you can audition at the dealer, and during Pandemic they were willing to lend you stuff for a week, but again, not as liquid market as in the states or in the uk, what a pity.


Yeh that sucks and is extremely unfair but sounds like it's common in many European countries


----------



## Gadget67

More progress!  My headphone cable adapters from Sean at Affinity in Singapore arrived today.  Now I will be able to use a number of headphone cables I already own (Lazuli reference, Moon Audio Silve Dragon, ZMF 2k copper, Wywires Platinum) when the Abyss 1266 eventually shows up...getting anxious!


----------



## JLoud

Nice. I have a few short adapters but those look even better.


----------



## Gadget67

JLoud said:


> Nice. I have a few short adapters but those look even better.


I have purchased from him before...very highly recommended!  Shorter is better IMHO.


----------



## saktanbers

jlbrach said:


> I have got an ifi power block... I got power cables form the abyss people...



For Abyss 1266 lovers this one is for you. A video made in usa. SilverFi HR4Signature upgrade cables for Abyss 1266😇😇


----------



## DJJEZ

saktanbers said:


> For Abyss 1266 lovers this one is for you. A video made in usa. SilverFi HR4Signature upgrade cables for Abyss 1266😇😇



I watched this a few weeks back


----------



## saktanbers

DJJEZ said:


> I watched this a few weeks back


How do you feel about it? 🙂


----------



## DJJEZ

saktanbers said:


> How do you feel about it? 🙂


I know the guy. He's in the Facebook headphone groups. He's currently waiting for his 1266tc to be made. $5k on a cable is nuts, he's said he's going to buy one as well lol


----------



## cjarrett

Orlok said:


> Changing the topic a bit here but, listening to the TC almost every waking minute over the past 4~5 days, I've found that I'm going through my old classic rock, blues and pop favorites and I'm really surprised how good it sounds for these mid-60's through early-80's kinds of stuff. Honestly, I wasn't expecting that. I thought the TC would be a little too resolving, hifi, analytical, refined and transparent for these genres and lose some of the grit, bite, raunch, midrange body, richness, and that lo-fi charm and vibe they exude but that has not been the case at all. It's one reason that I had been eyeing the ZMF VC and a matching tube amp to suit those genres better since fans of that rig really seem to be into these genres and have no interest in even hearing what it would sound like for classical, jazz and other nuanced stuff.
> 
> But, now, as I listen to the likes of the Beatles, Beach Boys, Van Morrison, Cream, Zeppelin, B.B. King, Stevie Ray Vaughn, the Clash, Tom Petty, the Pretenders and stuff like that from these bygone eras with the TC, I'm finding that they all sound great and still retain that edginess and vibe I mentioned. I adjust the pads a bit from tune to tune and the filter and cross-feed settings on the TT2 a bit but, overall, nothing else really needs to be done. Eventually, I may set up several EQ presets for different genres, artists and recordings but any tweaks would be very slight as everything already sounds so good set flat.
> 
> Very, very cool... This has been the most pleasant surprise of using the TC. I expected it to be great for electronic, EDM, hip hop, metal, modern pop, soundtracks and even classical and jazz and they all sound as expected. But, when I started going through all the old stuff, I was amazed by how good and _authentic _it all sounded. And I'm quite certain that I will be able to make it sound even better as time goes by with more EQ tweaks and other gear in the future. It really seems that the TC will be able to scale musically in any and every single direction that I decide to go.


Yeah, I honestly was expecting to switch between this and my VCs, but I haven't felt the need 4 months in.

I'm revisiting some of my old spotify playlists, and I'm still so glad I walked into Seattle's Vinyl Shop WallOfSound (http://wosound.com/) while he was playing Wand's _Golem _album. I typically don't like their style of music, but I was jamming my ass off in the store while I picked out a few LPs. The owner noticed I was jamming out and was like "hey dude, I got a bent LP from the distributor, You seem to like em--want it?".

Relistening to the album (Spotify linked) on these is making me jam out again.


----------



## saktanbers

DJJEZ said:


> I know the guy. He's in the Facebook headphone groups. He's currently waiting for his 1266tc to be made. $5k on a cable is nuts, he's said he's going to buy one as well lol


Actually, the price of SilverFi HR4 signature is 2,995usd. Not 5,000usd.


----------



## Jeweltopia

Can someone recommend me some powerful tube amps for the Abyss 1266 Phi TC? I haven't heard many. In fact, I only heard one with the Abyss. I was at a headfi meet a few weeks ago. It was a very small meet and only a small few of us showed up, but, someone brought the Linear Tube Audio Z10 integrated amplifier and I actually cried while listening to it on the Abyss, haha. I had that stereotypical moment in front of everyone. That being said, I just want to know other people's experiences with tubes. I guess the thing I really enjoyed about the LTA Z10 that I heard was this sense of startling realism. It felt like I was in the room with the vocalists and the orchestras and it had this sense of realism. I would describe the Abyss as almost having a hyper-realism to its sound. It can sound larger than life and toning it down a notch actually took it from being very detailed and fast on my SS setup that I was using to being more natural, more emotional, and life-like. That being said, when I put my Empyreans on the same amp, they became a bit mushy. I don't expect a tube amp to be able to do it all, though, so I don't mind sacrificing the synergy of my other headphones. I was considering the Auris Nirvana just because it has similar reviews of being realistic and bringing the music to the room with you in a realistic and emotional type of presentation. It's also more convenient with three tubes in it vs the ten inside the Z10 which uses ZOTL tech though, and, the tubes are said to have a very long lifespan on those. Someone recommended me the Cayin HA-300 yesterday but it was the only recommendation I got when I asked this same question elsewhere. I also know that the Audiovalve Solaris can power the Abyss but obviously it's really hard to try some of these things out. I don't want to just impulse buy the Z10 because it was the only tube amplifier I've ever heard with Abyss and I have no doubt that I'd be blown away by other tubes in similar price ranges. My budget is around $5,000 or below. I'm planning on buying either a Bricasti M3 (which I also heard at the headfi meet and fell in love with) or the Holo May. But yes, anyhow, while I was listening to the Z10 amplifier, the gentleman who brought it said that the company praises itself for maintaining a SS level of detail but with tubey goodness. He told me that the tubes weren't super euphonic but weren't super dry either. It was apparently a happy medium between euphonic and dry, somewhere in the middle, and the result was just very musical, life-like, well rounded and realistic while having a ton of emotional and that "there in the room with you" type of sound, if that makes sense. I'm already saving up for the Z10 but just want opinions on whether or not something could give the same realism and such in the price range. I've spoken to one other person who said that the Auris Nirvana could fit the bill, and, it'd be much more convenient for me. The Z10 is quite chunky and would take up more desk space and be inconvenient for other reasons, hence why I'm asking for recommendations.


----------



## Spawn300Z

There happens to be a Riviera AIC 10. In classifieds at this time.


----------



## mammal

Spawn300Z said:


> There happens to be a Riviera AIC 10. In classifieds at this time.


Link please? I tried searching for it and did not find it :-/


----------



## Spawn300Z

mammal said:


> Link please? I tried searching for it and did not find it :-/



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-...mp-months-old-1st-owner.954164/#post-16250256


----------



## JLoud

Woo WA5le was very good with my 1266TC. I’ve moved up to the WA33 now but the WA5LE gets you most of the way and is in your budget.


----------



## Spawn300Z

You can also go with the TToby


----------



## Jeweltopia

JLoud said:


> Woo WA5le was very good with my 1266TC. I’ve moved up to the WA33 now but the WA5LE gets you most of the way and is in your budget.


Yeah, I'm contemplating if saving for a bit longer and going for the WA33 would be the endgame tube setup that I've been longing for.


----------



## Mh996 (Apr 8, 2021)

Wow, so the TToby will arrive tomorrow morning. I ordered on Tuesday and it shipped from England on Wednesday. That’s only 48 hours for a package to leave England, clear US customs in Indianapolis, and get to me in Atlanta. I was expecting to wait 2-3 weeks. I’m very impressed with FedEx and DHL, especially since this was only standard international shipping. The only issue is that the TToby will beat the Banana-XLR adapter and RCA interconnects I need to connect it to the TT2 and TC!


----------



## Spawn300Z

I connect mine with XLRs.


----------



## SuperBurrito

The Ttoby is a great speaker amp.  I've never used it with headphones though.  I think it's price is very reasonable for the sound and build quality, and I think you'd have to spend a lot more to get a speaker amp that sounds better.  Reviews for the Ttoby have been stellar across the board.  Funny that it is so small, many people would probably think that it's small size may mean that it doesn't sound as good as a gigantic amp.
https://www.whathifi.com/us/reviews/chord-ttoby


----------



## DJJEZ

The benchmark AHB2 is another amazing alternative to the Ttoby. A couple of friends I know have them.


----------



## paradoxper

Jeweltopia said:


> Can someone recommend me some powerful tube amps for the Abyss 1266 Phi TC? I haven't heard many. In fact, I only heard one with the Abyss. I was at a headfi meet a few weeks ago. It was a very small meet and only a small few of us showed up, but, someone brought the Linear Tube Audio Z10 integrated amplifier and I actually cried while listening to it on the Abyss, haha. I had that stereotypical moment in front of everyone. That being said, I just want to know other people's experiences with tubes. I guess the thing I really enjoyed about the LTA Z10 that I heard was this sense of startling realism. It felt like I was in the room with the vocalists and the orchestras and it had this sense of realism. I would describe the Abyss as almost having a hyper-realism to its sound. It can sound larger than life and toning it down a notch actually took it from being very detailed and fast on my SS setup that I was using to being more natural, more emotional, and life-like. That being said, when I put my Empyreans on the same amp, they became a bit mushy. I don't expect a tube amp to be able to do it all, though, so I don't mind sacrificing the synergy of my other headphones. I was considering the Auris Nirvana just because it has similar reviews of being realistic and bringing the music to the room with you in a realistic and emotional type of presentation. It's also more convenient with three tubes in it vs the ten inside the Z10 which uses ZOTL tech though, and, the tubes are said to have a very long lifespan on those. Someone recommended me the Cayin HA-300 yesterday but it was the only recommendation I got when I asked this same question elsewhere. I also know that the Audiovalve Solaris can power the Abyss but obviously it's really hard to try some of these things out. I don't want to just impulse buy the Z10 because it was the only tube amplifier I've ever heard with Abyss and I have no doubt that I'd be blown away by other tubes in similar price ranges. My budget is around $5,000 or below. I'm planning on buying either a Bricasti M3 (which I also heard at the headfi meet and fell in love with) or the Holo May. But yes, anyhow, while I was listening to the Z10 amplifier, the gentleman who brought it said that the company praises itself for maintaining a SS level of detail but with tubey goodness. He told me that the tubes weren't super euphonic but weren't super dry either. It was apparently a happy medium between euphonic and dry, somewhere in the middle, and the result was just very musical, life-like, well rounded and realistic while having a ton of emotional and that "there in the room with you" type of sound, if that makes sense. I'm already saving up for the Z10 but just want opinions on whether or not something could give the same realism and such in the price range. I've spoken to one other person who said that the Auris Nirvana could fit the bill, and, it'd be much more convenient for me. The Z10 is quite chunky and would take up more desk space and be inconvenient for other reasons, hence why I'm asking for recommendations.


Couldn't you place the M3 on the back burner to open your options for amplification? You could then entertain WA33 8 watts, AIC 10 4 watts, Primavera 9 watts, EF1000 14 watts, but I really wouldn't recommend you buy blind, the WA33 is more soft and IMO and a better fit with Utopia , AIC 10 is warm and very soft with bigger spatial cues putting lush emphasis into the mids but with too much bass bloom, while the Primavera might not impress upon enough tube wetness you may be looking for similar to the Z10 but more technical. I would also question why you're ruling out power amps? Pass or Coda options are quite tube-like in characteristic.


----------



## Spawn300Z

If I’m not mistaking the Riviera AIC-10 is 10 watts.


----------



## paradoxper

Spawn300Z said:


> If I’m not mistaking the Riviera AIC-10 is 10 watts.


As the model name is its distinction, yes. 10W/8 ohm.


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## DJJEZ (Apr 8, 2021)

Jeweltopia said:


> Can someone recommend me some powerful tube amps for the Abyss 1266 Phi TC? I haven't heard many. In fact, I only heard one with the Abyss. I was at a headfi meet a few weeks ago. It was a very small meet and only a small few of us showed up, but, someone brought the Linear Tube Audio Z10 integrated amplifier and I actually cried while listening to it on the Abyss, haha. I had that stereotypical moment in front of everyone. That being said, I just want to know other people's experiences with tubes. I guess the thing I really enjoyed about the LTA Z10 that I heard was this sense of startling realism. It felt like I was in the room with the vocalists and the orchestras and it had this sense of realism. I would describe the Abyss as almost having a hyper-realism to its sound. It can sound larger than life and toning it down a notch actually took it from being very detailed and fast on my SS setup that I was using to being more natural, more emotional, and life-like. That being said, when I put my Empyreans on the same amp, they became a bit mushy. I don't expect a tube amp to be able to do it all, though, so I don't mind sacrificing the synergy of my other headphones. I was considering the Auris Nirvana just because it has similar reviews of being realistic and bringing the music to the room with you in a realistic and emotional type of presentation. It's also more convenient with three tubes in it vs the ten inside the Z10 which uses ZOTL tech though, and, the tubes are said to have a very long lifespan on those. Someone recommended me the Cayin HA-300 yesterday but it was the only recommendation I got when I asked this same question elsewhere. I also know that the Audiovalve Solaris can power the Abyss but obviously it's really hard to try some of these things out. I don't want to just impulse buy the Z10 because it was the only tube amplifier I've ever heard with Abyss and I have no doubt that I'd be blown away by other tubes in similar price ranges. My budget is around $5,000 or below. I'm planning on buying either a Bricasti M3 (which I also heard at the headfi meet and fell in love with) or the Holo May. But yes, anyhow, while I was listening to the Z10 amplifier, the gentleman who brought it said that the company praises itself for maintaining a SS level of detail but with tubey goodness. He told me that the tubes weren't super euphonic but weren't super dry either. It was apparently a happy medium between euphonic and dry, somewhere in the middle, and the result was just very musical, life-like, well rounded and realistic while having a ton of emotional and that "there in the room with you" type of sound, if that makes sense. I'm already saving up for the Z10 but just want opinions on whether or not something could give the same realism and such in the price range. I've spoken to one other person who said that the Auris Nirvana could fit the bill, and, it'd be much more convenient for me. The Z10 is quite chunky and would take up more desk space and be inconvenient for other reasons, hence why I'm asking for recommendations.


Save longer for a WA33 and have one of the  best endgame tube amps otherwise you will eventually want one lol

I recognise your setup from the Facebook headphone groups


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## Spawn300Z

I was going for the WA33 but saving for the Riviera.


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## Ciggavelli

Spawn300Z said:


> I was going for the WA33 but saving for the Riviera.


I had the WA33 Standard Edition, had the Riviera AIC-10 at my house for a month, and now have the WA33 Elite Edition with JPS wiring.  They are all good, but I really do feel that the WA33 Elite Edition with JPS wiring is the winner.  It costs like $2K more than the AIC-10, but I think it is worth the money.  The AIC-10 is no slouch though, so I'm sure you'd be happy with either.  If given the chance, I suggest trying out the WA33 Elite with JPS wiring too


----------



## simorag

The Riviera AIC-10 is just a magical pairing with the TC... I have tried _many_ speaker amps including very exotic ones and the AIC-10 just 'clicked' to the sound I was personally after.

Indeed it is on the warmer side of neutral, yet its warmth / bloom, and mid-bass to midrange density / richness can be finely tuned by rolling its input tube (Mullard vs, say, Telefunken or Fivre will deliver two notably different flavors), and driving the AB-1266 via the speaker out vs xlr 4pin provides an additional voicing degree of freedom (raw impact vs smoothness).

In terms of output power it is 10W in class A over 8Ohm, close to about 20W in class AB @ 1% distortion into the same impedance.

It handled the Susvara as well when I had them without breaking a sweat, and I can drive my speakers too with this amp.

Of course at its price point there are _many_ other nice options, I would have loved to try the WA33 JPS Edition for example, it is such a beautiful piece of gear 😍


----------



## DJJEZ

Ciggavelli said:


> I had the WA33 Standard Edition, had the Riviera AIC-10 at my house for a month, and now have the WA33 Elite Edition with JPS wiring.  They are all good, but I really do feel that the WA33 Elite Edition with JPS wiring is the winner.  It costs like $2K more than the AIC-10, but I think it is worth the money.  The AIC-10 is no slouch though, so I'm sure you'd be happy with either.  If given the chance, I suggest trying out the WA33 Elite with JPS wiring too


I would love one but $17k is just out of reach for me lol absolute dream amp for sure


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> I had the WA33 Standard Edition, had the Riviera AIC-10 at my house for a month, and now have the WA33 Elite Edition with JPS wiring.  They are all good, but I really do feel that the WA33 Elite Edition with JPS wiring is the winner.  It costs like $2K more than the AIC-10, but I think it is worth the money.  The AIC-10 is no slouch though, so I'm sure you'd be happy with either.  If given the chance, I suggest trying out the WA33 Elite with JPS wiring too


Can you describe the tonal difference between the Standard and Elite? I know that the Elite uses premium parts but was curious what type of tonal impact these parts have. I know that the upgrade charge won't be twice as good as the Standard but, if you had to put like a percentage number on the perceived improvement _to your ears_, what would that be? Considering that the JPS Edition is like $5K over the Standard, wouldn't the EE/JPS combo be more like $20K? Or is it $17K because there's a "combo" work involved so that there'd be some savings in labor?


----------



## Orlok

Mh996 said:


> Wow, so the TToby will arrive tomorrow morning. I ordered on Tuesday and it shipped from England on Wednesday. That’s only 48 hours for a package to leave England, clear US customs in Indianapolis, and get to me in Atlanta. I was expecting to wait 2-3 weeks. I’m very impressed with FedEx and DHL, especially since this was only standard international shipping. The only issue is that the TToby will beat the Banana-XLR adapter and RCA interconnects I need to connect it to the TT2 and TC!


Very cool. Really loving how the TToby is driving the TC. It's a very neutral and transparent sound - perhaps a little too analytical for some - but I still find it very musical.


----------



## Orlok

DJJEZ said:


> I would love one but $17k is just out of reach for me lol absolute dream amp for sure


A man without dreams may as well be dead.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Orlok said:


> Can you describe the tonal difference between the Standard and Elite? I know that the Elite uses premium parts but was curious what type of tonal impact these parts have. I know that the upgrade charge won't be twice as good as the Standard but, if you had to put like a percentage number on the perceived improvement _to your ears_, what would that be? Considering that the JPS Edition is like $5K over the Standard, wouldn't the EE/JPS combo be more like $20K? Or is it $17K because there's a "combo" work involved so that there'd be some savings in labor?


It's technically a $16,999 amp, but most people put premium tubes on it (including myself).  So, including the upgraded tubes, it's like $21K.  Kinda crazy, but I love it.  

I don't have the Standard Edition next to me at the momemt to do a direct comparison, but here is what I noticed differently in the beginning when I first got the EE JPS:

No transformer hum (the Standard Edition did have some hum.  Not terrible, but a bit annoying.  Once you start listening to music though, you don't hear the hum anymore)
Even more powerful bass.  It's really like subwoofers in your ear.  The standard has thunderous bass too, but it's even more pronounced with the EE JPS
Soundstage depth is a bit larger
More body to the music.  The Standard Edition has great body too, but I feel it is more defined and 3D with the EE JPS
I didn't particularly like the Susvaras out of the Standard Edition.  I was going to sell them, but decided to keep them until I could hear them out of the EE JPS.  I'm glad I did.  I love the Susvaras out of the EE JPS.  I had a friend listen to the Susvaras out of the Standard Edition and then them out of the Elite Edition with JPS wires, and he agreed that the Susvaras sound better out of the WA33 EE JPS.  I'm not sure if it's the updated components, the JPS wiring, or whatever, but I like the Susvara a lot more now, and it's my second favorite pair of headphones now (behind the TCs).  I think that might speak to the tonality best.  The Susvara sounds so "sweet" and "magical," with crazy 3D presentation.
 I'm not a treble head, but there is nice sparkly highs.  I didn't dislike the highs on the Standard Edition, and honestly it's hard for me to remember the treble on the Standard Edition, so I don't want to say the EE JPS is a big difference in that regard


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## Orlok (Apr 8, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> It's technically a $16,999 amp, but most people put premium tubes on it (including myself).  So, including the upgraded tubes, it's like $21K.  Kinda crazy, but I love it.
> 
> I don't have the Standard Edition next to me at the momemt to do a direct comparison, but here is what I noticed differently in the beginning when I first got the EE JPS:
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for the detailed impressions and I totally understand every aspect of what you are describing. I know that these characteristics you describe are not measurable performance metrics. It's why I can't help but roll my eyes when some people (like that grouchy old men's club at a certain audio forum ) slam TOTL amps for having measurements that are not any better than lower priced ones. In some ways - actually a _lot_ - headphones, amps and other components like DAC are like musical instruments. There are intangibles there that simply cannot be measured by machines.


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> It's technically a $16,999 amp, but most people put premium tubes on it (including myself).  So, including the upgraded tubes, it's like $21K.  Kinda crazy, but I love it.
> 
> I don't have the Standard Edition next to me at the momemt to do a direct comparison, but here is what I noticed differently in the beginning when I first got the EE JPS:
> 
> ...


How did you get it up to $21K, or even $17K for that matter? Unless I'm missing something, the website says $12,995 with JPS wiring and the KR tubes.


----------



## DJJEZ

Orlok said:


> A man without dreams may as well be dead.


You can be sure if I inherit some money or win the lottery thats the first thing I'm buying lmao


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> How did you get it up to $21K, or even $17K for that matter? Unless I'm missing something, the website says $12,995 with JPS wiring and the KR tubes.


That’s the standard edition with JPS Wiring (JPS doesn’t sell the Elite with JPS Wiring directly on their site).

The Elite Edition with JPS Wiring costs $17K. The tubes are around $4K.

https://wooaudio.com/amplifiers/wa33


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## ken6217

Gotcha.


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## Orlok (Apr 8, 2021)

As I delve into this hobby, I'm fascinated by how similar this world is to the musical instruments realm in terms of how different pieces of gear interact with each other to produce the desired results for a particular individual, whether that person is a critical listener or a serious musician. As a guitar player, I came to see over many years how different guitars (and the pickups in them) interact with different amps and effects devices. For example, for whatever reason, some overdrive/distortion pedals just did not play nice with some tube amps while working great with other tube amps. Guitar players would often say that a certain amp "takes pedals well" and that some don't.

It's the same with the woods in a guitar and how some wood combinations work well and some just sound outright weird. It took me many years working in the industry and experimenting to find what myriad combinations work the best for me. But there are so many options and so many different kinds of systems that you realize that one cannot do everything. That's why guitar players have multiple guitars and multiple amps and mix and match them up accordingly for a certain sound to fit a certain song they are writing and recording. I see that's what we need to do here as well! 

I certainly got that with owning and using different headphones. Now I see that it's the same with amps. I can't help but think what the TC will sound like with a really good tube amp compared to the TToby, especially when listening to rock. The TC sounds much better for rock and blues than I had expected. Last night, I was listening to the likes of AC/DC, the Stones, SRV, 70's Aerosmith, Cream, CCR, etc. and they all sounded great _but_... what if it was a nice tube amp? Yes, I'm sure it'd sound even more authentic with more depth, dimension and harmonic richness. Obviously, I do know how guitar tube amps sound compared to guitar solid state amps and systems.

I've attached photos of the guitar rig I've used for many years and which are now used at my company's demo room. The first is of a modern digital-based stereo guitar amp system with two powered floor monitors (500w each). The preamp is in the rack and it has a gazillion presets with different amp sounds and effects using state-of-the-art DSP chips and software modeling. They call it "modeling" because the software algorithms are programmed to "model" different kinds of tube amps, solid state amps, and effects, etc.

The second photo shows the classic hot-rodded Marshall-style boutique 100w tube head with EL34 tubes. This is the sound of _rock _from Hendrix to Page to Van Halen. There is nothing quite like it. The fancy high-tech digital/SS rig can do some convincing simulations but it just does not compare to a raging 100w tube head. The third photo shows the classic Fender-style boutique low-wattage (22~40w) amp with 6L6 tubes that is an ideal "platform" to use with a pedalboard filled with various effects pedals like overdrive, distortion, chorus/vibrato, delay/echo and reverb. The amp on the right is a vintage solid state Standel amp favored by jazz players (jazzbos don't like tubes!). Then, we have the bass head (1000 watts!) and cabinet. These all do different things very well. I found that I needed them all to get the various sounds and for artists and customers to demo with the guitars.

Now I find that I'm going to "need" different HP amps and mix-and-match with headphones like I did with guitars and guitar amps. I've come to the realization that this oft-used term _synergy_ really does matter with head-fi systems just it did with guitar rigs. It's very interesting. Honestly, I didn't expect this coming over from the musical instruments side of things to this audiophile world. What I know is that I'm going to trust _my ears_ even though I'll always consult with experienced users, reviewers and manufacturers. That's the most important thing: ultimately, you have to follow your own ears.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Apr 8, 2021)

Orlok said:


> As I delve into this hobby, I'm fascinated by how similar this world is to the musical instruments realm in terms of how different pieces of gear interact with each other to produce the desired results for a particular individual, whether that person is a critical listener or a serious musician. As a guitar player, I came to see over many years how different guitars (and the pickups in them) interact with different amps and effects devices. For example, for whatever reason, some overdrive/distortion pedals just did not play nice with some tube amps while working great with other tube amps. Guitar players would often say that a certain amp "takes pedals well" and that some don't.
> 
> It's the same with the woods in a guitar and how some wood combinations work well and some just sound outright weird. It took me many years working in the industry and experimenting to find what myriad combinations work the best for me. But there are so many options and so many different kinds of systems that you realize that one cannot do everything. That's why guitar players have multiple guitars and multiple amps and mix and match them up accordingly for a certain sound to fit a certain song they are writing and recording. I see that's what we need to do that here as well!
> 
> ...


Yeah, synergy is really important. I’ve been toying with getting another DAC (Tambaqui, Rossini, Holo May, etc.) to put into play in my chain. I have no particular complaints with the mDAVE I have, but I didn’t have any complaints with the Standard Edition WA33 either. Yet, the Elite/JPS is better.

I’m not really sure how the sound with my chain can be improved, but I know it can (honestly it always can be improved).  There’s something fulfilling about hearing sound quality improvements you couldn’t even imagine previously. I guess looking back,  that’s part of the fun with HiFi audio. You start with less expensive equipment to test the waters, which then leads to more expensive and higher quality components. Every step up is fun.

Other than losing money selling my older equipment, I kinda like the step-by-step process of the audiophile world. For DACs, I started with a DragonFly, then a Oppo portable, a JDS Element, Hugo 2, Hugo TT2 (then added the m-scaler), then DAVE with the M-scaler. I wonder, would I have appreciated all that the DAVE has to offer if I started with the DAVE, instead of the Hugo 2?  Obviously, I can’t go back in time, but it’s an interesting thought experiment


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> Yeah, synergy is really important. I’ve been toying with getting another DAC (Tambaqui, Rossini, Holo May, etc.) to put into play in my chain. I have no particular complaints with the mDAVE I have, but I didn’t have any complaints with the Standard Edition WA33 either. Yet, the Elite/JPS is better.
> 
> I’m not really sure how the sound with my chain can be improved, but I know it can (honestly it always can be improved).  There’s something fulfilling about hearing sound quality improvements you couldn’t even imagine previously. I guess looking back,  that’s part of the fun with HiFi audio. You start with less expensive equipment to test the waters, which then leads to more expensive and higher quality components. Every step up is fun.
> 
> Other than losing money selling my older equipment, I kinda like the step-by-step process of the audiophile world. For DACs, I started with a DragonFly, then a Oppo portable, a JDS Element, Hugo 2, Hugo TT2 (then added the m-scaler), then DAVE with the M-scaler. I wonder, would I have appreciated all that the DAVE has to offer if I started with the DAVE, instead of the Hugo 2?  Obviously, I can’t go back in time, but it’s an interesting thought experiment


Yup, it's that next step you take and experiencing something you haven't before that becomes the "drug". Ah, I remember the days of FiiO and Sennheiser HD298. I'm about 5 years behind you but I know I'll catch up since it seems you will have nothing more to upgrade to by then!


----------



## spacelion2077

Does anyone know how much it would cost to fix a ab 1266 driver issue after warranty expires?


----------



## Ciggavelli

spacelion2077 said:


> Does anyone know how much it would cost to fix a ab 1266 driver issue after warranty expires?


Joe hinted $2K

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-15016313


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## spacelion2077 (Apr 8, 2021)

Thanks for the response


----------



## Ratephi

Ciggavelli said:


> Other than losing money selling my older equipment, I kinda like the step-by-step process of the audiophile world. For DACs, I started with a DragonFly, then a Oppo portable, a JDS Element, Hugo 2, Hugo TT2 (then added the m-scaler), then DAVE with the M-scaler. I wonder, would I have appreciated all that the DAVE has to offer if I started with the DAVE, instead of the Hugo 2?  Obviously, I can’t go back in time, but it’s an interesting thought experiment



Yes interesting point. Personally, I am firmly convinced that you would have not appreciated DAVE as much as you can now, because of the "journey" which happened before... And, to be honest, I believe that skipping steps and jumping right away on the ultimate - or presumed so - amp, dac, headphone, etc. is what prevents many of us from truly enjoying some of the great gear we own...


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 8, 2021)

Agree ^^^ its about the journey getting to the top. If you skip steps you won't fully appreciate all  the steps you took to get there. This hobby really is like a drug. Always looking for your next hit, planning your next hit and fantasizing about the differences its going to make before hand lmao


----------



## Stereolab42

JLoud said:


> Woo WA5le was very good with my 1266TC. I’ve moved up to the WA33 now but the WA5LE gets you most of the way and is in your budget.


WA5LE with premium parts all the way for $5k. One of the purest tube experiences you can get.

For a higher-end option I'm going to put in a word for the WA234 (https://wooaudio.com/amplifiers/wa234mono). Lots of people have the WA33, and it's definitely more convenient than the WA234, but if you want to be a TRUE weirdo, monoblock headphones amps weighing 60 pounds each with THREE different output tube choices is where it's at. It's pretty much the only zero-compromise headphone tube amp in existence.


----------



## Orlok

Stereolab42 said:


> WA5LE with premium parts all the way for $5k. One of the purest tube experiences you can get.
> 
> For a higher-end option I'm going to put in a word for the WA234 (https://wooaudio.com/amplifiers/wa234mono). Lots of people have the WA33, and it's definitely more convenient than the WA234, but if you want to be a TRUE weirdo, monoblock headphones amps weighing 60 pounds each with THREE different output tube choices is where it's at. It's pretty much the only zero-compromise headphone tube amp in existence.


The WA234 reminds me of Oracle Corp's HQ buildings. The industrial design is quite striking.


----------



## mammal

Stereolab42 said:


> For a higher-end option I'm going to put in a word for the WA234 (https://wooaudio.com/amplifiers/wa234mono).


I chatted with Mike from Woo Audio about this, asking him what he would recommend for AB-1266. He said that WA33 design is newer and to his ears AB-1266 sound better on it, compared to 234-Mono. He also said that guys at Abyss prefer it too. Furthermore, he shared with me that if you plan to drive these headphones only, he recommends JPS edition, but if you have a whole collection of headphones, non-JPS would be his pick. As far as Elite goes, he said that it's pinnacle of their offering and when I asked about input voltage sensitivity (if you need a power conditioner) he said it isn't that easy to answer and you should check your electricity at home first (how much does the voltage swings). I asked this because someone on the forum said that the Elite edition is more sensitive to this issue. Hope this paraphrase of my conversation with Mike helps!


----------



## Stereolab42 (Apr 9, 2021)

mammal said:


> I chatted with Mike from Woo Audio about this, asking him what he would recommend for AB-1266. He said that WA33 design is newer and to his ears AB-1266 sound better on it, compared to 234-Mono. He also said that guys at Abyss prefer it too. Furthermore, he shared with me that if you plan to drive these headphones only, he recommends JPS edition, but if you have a whole collection of headphones, non-JPS would be his pick. As far as Elite goes, he said that it's pinnacle of their offering and when I asked about input voltage sensitivity (if you need a power conditioner) he said it isn't that easy to answer and you should check your electricity at home first (how much does the voltage swings). I asked this because someone on the forum said that the Elite edition is more sensitive to this issue. Hope this paraphrase of my conversation with Mike helps!


Problem with the WA33 is that for someone who is coming from a WA5, as I'm sure many long-time Woo customers are, it uses none of the same tubes, aside from the rectifier. That was an instant non-starter for me, as the WA234 supports 300B and I'm also getting it customized for 6SN7s. The WA33 is also push-pull and not SET. I know there are endless arguments in tube circles about this subject, but technically it's hard to argue against SET being the purer and simpler solution, if less efficient, and as a "purist as far as is practical" that's important to me. But both models have enough power to vaporize any headphone, and both architectures are tried-and-true for probably almost 100 years now, so in the end the best SQ will likely come down to proper tube choice.


----------



## mammal

Stereolab42 said:


> The WA33 is also push-pull and not SET


Since I am quite new to this hobby and haven't tried enough amplifiers (have had enough DACs though to tell the difference between R2R, DS, FPGA; as well as headphones - dynamic, planar and electrostats, ribbon not yet) so I have no clue what you are talking about  I don't even know (yet) what is the difference between TOTL tube amp and TOTL solid state, haha. I am saying this to show my appreciation to those who have these amps and can compare. Knowing that you will try AB-1266 with WA234-Mono makes me so happy, as I was thinking about this amp as my "end game" too, since mono design allows me to volume control channels separately (I have hearing loss on my left ear and currently use DSP to account for that). Please let us know once you receive it, what your impressions are! Thank you


----------



## BrowChan

So, this week, the Y-adapter for my TT2 arrived.....from Abyss, lol. I just wanted to keep the wiring consistent. Don't ask why.  


*Improvements:*
The bass and soundstage improved. While the soundstage improvement was not massive, the bass level improvement was respectably and satisfyingly more. At first, I was fine with the bass out the SE, but missed the quantity later on and wasn't enjoying the songs as much. Now I do from the rear XLR end.

*Comparisons:
Based on memory*, the *HSA-1b* had better driver control, resulting in slightly more bass quantity and slam. This was evident when listening to "Angel by Massive Attack". I literally had to turn down the volume pot by 1-2 levels on the 1b from my normal listening level. On the TT2, my normal level is about -19H and I stayed at -19H. So the difference in bass levels and slam is about 10%. But the TT2 *delivers* the quantity when asked for. 
If I add anything to my current chain, in the future, it would be Chord TToby or Étude, or any equivalently sized speaker AMP for compact purposes. However, if I didn't travel as often.....things might be different or maybe not.....

*Things to know:*
My chain was _iFi Micro BL -> HSA-1b_.
Now my chain is _Hugo_ _TT2_.....that's it.
So what I am trying to say is that things could be different if I used TT2 as the DAC for HSA-1b instead, but by the time I got my TT2, the HSA-1b was on its way to the buyer. Based on the above, take what you will with a grain of salt.

*P.S*: The cross-feed feature of TT2 is pretty awesome! The vocals sound somewhat intimate and nice too.


----------



## mammal

BrowChan said:


> it would be Chord TToby


HMS+HTT2+TToby is a nice stack to have


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Ciggavelli said:


> It's technically a $16,999 amp, but most people put premium tubes on it (including myself).  So, including the upgraded tubes, it's like $21K.  Kinda crazy, but I love it.



If I'd only find that USB stick with 80 Bitcoin.


----------



## DJJEZ

BrowChan said:


> So, this week, the Y-adapter for my TT2 arrived.....from Abyss, lol. I just wanted to keep the wiring consistent. Don't ask why.
> 
> 
> *Improvements:*
> ...


Which crossfeed setting are you using?


----------



## Slim1970

Giving my TC’s a go on the Luxman P-750u. What I’m hearing is incredible body and space. Tone and timbre is exotic. The sound is controlled, full with a lot of drive and weight, wow!


----------



## Mh996

The TToby made it safely, but it’ll be about 2 weeks before my RCAs and power cable from Morrow Audio deliver. I purchased my 4 banana —> female XLR adapter from Blue Jeans Cable, but I don’t know what lead time they have right now. That adapter is all I really need for first impressions.


----------



## BrowChan (Apr 9, 2021)

mammal said:


> HMS+HTT2+TToby is a nice stack to have


Certainly! If only I had "a nice stack of cash" too, lol.



DJJEZ said:


> Which crossfeed setting are you using?


I think the 4th one. The higher I go, the more centered and pinpoint the vocals get. Although, some tracks that are meant to be heard (by the producers) in stereo do not sound the best with CF, IMO.


----------



## Orlok

Mh996 said:


> The TToby made it safely, but it’ll be about 2 weeks before my RCAs and power cable from Morrow Audio deliver. I purchased my 4 banana —> female XLR adapter from Blue Jeans Cable, but I don’t know what lead time they have right now. That adapter is all I really need for first impressions.


Hmmm... that must be a little agonizing to have all the major components ready to go but don't have the cables. Well, it'll be worth the wait!


----------



## Orlok (Apr 9, 2021)

BrowChan said:


> So, this week, the Y-adapter for my TT2 arrived.....from Abyss, lol. I just wanted to keep the wiring consistent. Don't ask why.
> 
> 
> *Improvements:*
> ...


Yes, going from SE to the XLR was a significant improvement. At first, I was enjoying the SE since that's the output that made sense to try first and @DJJEZ pinged me and asked how it was with the XLRs. So I do that and I was enjoying the XLRs very much and then I saw @Spawn300Z here saying "Now you gotta try TToby!" so I _had to_ do that.  I think the TT2 XLRs are really a good match with the TC but it really does benefit even more from the extra reserve of power and headroom that a speaker amp provides. Before I got the TToby, I was considering the Mytek Brooklyn Amp+. It's an attractive little amp and seems highly capable but there isn't that much info or feedback about it online.


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> It's technically a $16,999 amp, but most people put premium tubes on it (including myself).  So, including the upgraded tubes, it's like $21K.  Kinda crazy, but I love it.
> 
> I don't have the Standard Edition next to me at the momemt to do a direct comparison, but here is what I noticed differently in the beginning when I first got the EE JPS:
> 
> ...


Getting back to this, do you think you can describe what the JPS portion contributes over the Standard? Obviously, EE JPS that you have would be the way to go but the EE  upgrade is a little too far out of my range. That would be very difficult to sell to my wife. Haha. But the JPS may be within grasp in the not-too-distant future. I'm all-in on getting the max out of the TC and tube is the next frontier.


----------



## BrowChan

Orlok said:


> Yes, going from SE to the XLR was a significant improvement. At first, I was enjoying the SE since that's the output that made sense to try first and @DJJEZ pinged me and asked how it was with the XLRs. So I do that and I was enjoying the XLRs very much and then I saw @Spawn300Z here saying "Now you gotta try TToby!" so I _had to_ do that.  I think the TT2 XLRs are really a good match with the TC but it really does benefit even more from the extra reserve of power and headroom that a speaker amp provides. Before I got the TToby, I was considering the Mytek Brooklyn Amp+. It's an attractive little amp and seems highly capable but there isn't that much about it online.


We always want to keep up the ladder, hahaha. It is really awesome that you get to experience the differences all in one sitting.

By the way, why not replace your TToby with Étude? I read the following from Moon Audio:
_"Although the amplifier is conservatively rated at 150W into 4Ω, if you run Étude in bridged mono mode you can increase this to 300W into 4Ω."
https://www.moon-audio.com/chord-choral-etude-amp.html_

That is sufficient power for the SR1a as well. Though, I do not know how it fares up against the HSA-1b for SR1a. I think Torq touched on this somewhere in the headphones forum.


----------



## Orlok

BrowChan said:


> We always want to keep up the ladder, hahaha. It is really awesome that you get to experience the differences all in one sitting.
> 
> By the way, why not replace your TToby with Étude? I read the following from Moon Audio:
> _"Although the amplifier is conservatively rated at 150W into 4Ω, if you run Étude in bridged mono mode you can increase this to 300W into 4Ω."
> ...


Yes, I got kind of lucky with everything falling into place with the Chord stack but, of course, there are always more new frontiers to explore in this crazy hobby of ours. Haha.

Regarding the Étude, bridging to mono mode would mean I'd need to get two of them, right? Even one would be a little too much that I'd want to allocate to a power amp as I don't listen listen with speakers that much. I have a compact Purifi 400w per channel @4ohm on order to drive the SR1a. It's $1500 (my max budget for this) and I'm hopeful that it will do justice to the SR1a but I'll just have to see how it plays with the TT2. If it doesn't work out I can send it back within 14 days for full refund. I do want to get the SR1a amplification thing right but I just don't want to spend too much on it.

I'm very happy with the Chord stack and the TToby driving the TC as the solid state option. Now my attention turns to tuuuuuube~


----------



## BrowChan

Orlok said:


> Yes, I got kind of lucky with everything falling into place with the Chord stack but, of course, there are always more new frontiers to explore in this crazy hobby of ours. Haha.
> 
> Regarding the Étude, bridging to mono mode would mean I'd need to get two of them, right? Even one would be a little too much that I'd want to allocate to a power amp as I don't listen listen with speakers that much. I have a compact Purifi 400w per channel @4ohm on order to drive the SR1a. It's $1500 (my max budget for this) and I'm hopeful that it will do justice to the SR1a but I'll just have to see how it plays with the TT2. If it doesn't work out I can send it back within 14 days for full refund. I do want to get the SR1a amplification thing right but I just don't want to spend too much on it.
> 
> I'm very happy with the Chord stack and the TToby driving the TC as the solid state option. Now my attention turns to tuuuuuube~


Aha! I get you. Need to find the proper balance for the budget at hand.

Definitely let us know your experience with it driving the SR1a *and* the TC, if you can. Hopefully, it works out great! 

Tubes, huh? Coming soon.


----------



## Spawn300Z

That’s why I went with two TTobys to bridge. I got the idea after seeing this video.



Dual Etudes would be real expensive.  I love the form factor better and works real well in my setup.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 9, 2021)

BrowChan said:


> Aha! I get you. Need to find the proper balance for the budget at hand.
> 
> Definitely let us know your experience with it driving the SR1a *and* the TC, if you can. Hopefully, it works out great!
> 
> Tubes, huh? Coming soon.


Yes, this hobby is like a business. Your are trying to build this "dream empire" but the resources at your disposal are limited. So you need to set short-term, medium-range and long-term goals of where you want to be, say, early next year, then the year after and 3~5 years down the road, etc. And you have to consider what may come up within these time frames that will inevitably replace what you have now since there'll always be better and improved stuff coming out. Like any business, it's tricky. Haha.

Will definitely share my thoughts as I spend more time with the SR1a and the TC. The TC is now at a little over 100 hours, I think, so not fully broken-in yet. I didn't just have music playing through it nonstop overnight. All the hours have been with me listening with it over the past week. I can hear it opening up more and sounding larger but it's hard to say since it's so gradual over a period of time. I do agree that your ears and brain are getting burned-in to the sound as well.

Yes, tubes... I know how different it sounds and _feels_ from SS with guitar amps so it's not hard for me to imagine what it would sound like with audio gear. It's like being able to enjoy the difference between the shades of cool and shades of warm as well as in-between. For guitar playing, it's no contest. Serious players play tube amps. Anything else is considered a mere imitation. I know that's not quite the case in the audiophile world and that TOTL SS amps sound fantastic.

What guitar players often want is the opposite of what audiophiles go for: they _want_ distortion - push the tubes beyond what they can handle gain-wise. This is a total antithesis of what audio amp designers want to accomplish, which is minimizing distortion as much as possible. But, when tubes distort, they can still sound pleasant because they generate even-order harmonics while solid state generates odd-order harmonics. Basically, the end result of this is that tube amps can still sound sweet and pleasing when they distort at the output stage while SS amps can sound harsh.

So I have a very good idea of what tube amps do and will sound and feel like. And the "feel" portion is very important because there's a certain kind of airiness in the sounds that tubes produce as well as warmth and sweetness that you just don't hear or sense with SS amps. I used to wonder, "Is it because the 'notes' float around in those hot bottles and get heated before being pushed out of the amp?" Haha. I don't know as I'm not an engineer but that's what it sounds and feels like. There's a certain magic to tubes and that's why so many SS amp designers and builders also try to capture that magic in their amps.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Orlok said:


> Getting back to this, do you think you can describe what the JPS portion contributes over the Standard? Obviously, EE JPS that you have would be the way to go but the EE  upgrade is a little too far out of my range. That would be very difficult to sell to my wife. Haha. But the JPS may be within grasp in the not-too-distant future. I'm all-in on getting the max out of the TC and tube is the next frontier.


I don't think I can, unfortunately.  I can't tell which parts caused which improvement.  Though, I guess if going by the JPS Aluminoy house sound, the JPS portion probably accounts for additional smoothness


----------



## Polygonhell

Does anyone know what the current lead time on orders is?


----------



## DJJEZ

Polygonhell said:


> Does anyone know what the current lead time on orders is?


6 to 8 weeks I think


----------



## Orlok

Spawn300Z said:


> That’s why I went with two TTobys to bridge. I got the idea after seeing this video.
> 
> 
> 
> Dual Etudes would be real expensive.  I love the form factor better and works real well in my setup.



Your setup is killer!   Someday I'll need to get a desk like that someday or get something less wide with a dedicated audio rack on the side. A large tube amp probably won't work too good on a desk.  TToby really is very nice. Yes, for two Études, one might as well get the Ultima 5 or 6 and that would be going totally overboard to drive headphones - even the SR1a.

BTW, what do you use for the media source? Can't make it out from the photo. A server/streamer is another thing I'm considering for the future although it really isn't a priority at all as I'm quite happy with Audirvana/Qobuz on my MBP at the moment.


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> I don't think I can, unfortunately.  I can't tell which parts caused which improvement.  Though, I guess if going by the JPS Aluminoy house sound, the JPS portion probably accounts for additional smoothness


As I get into 100+ hours with the TC, I can hear that a little smoothing-over of the high-mids and low-treble and bringing the mid-mids a little more forward could be a very good thing for more "organic" genres and vocals. It seems I'll have to consider the JPS SPs after all.  And, of course, the WA33 JPS. Cables do matter...

But, man, I was just listening to Hans Zimmer's 'The Dark Knight' soundtrack and 'Like a Dog Chasing Cars' induced the deep chills again. Man, I had to stop typing, close my eyes and get lost in the Abyss again.


----------



## Spawn300Z

Orlok said:


> Your setup is killer!   Someday I'll need to get a desk like that someday or get something less wide with a dedicated audio rack on the side. A large tube amp probably won't work too good on a desk.  TToby really is very nice. Yes, for two Études, one might as well get the Ultima 5 or 6 and that would be going totally overboard to drive headphones - even the SR1a.
> 
> BTW, what do you use for the media source? Can't make it out from the photo. A server/streamer is another thing I'm considering for the future although it really isn't a priority at all as I'm quite happy with Audirvana/Qobuz on my MBP at the moment.


I use the iMac that’s mounted above my dual monitors. I’m thinking about adding Roon. Don’t know if I should put on the iMac or use my Mac mini.


----------



## kamlam

If anyone is looking for a pair of like-new TCs let me know!


----------



## Ciggavelli (Apr 9, 2021)

Spawn300Z said:


> I use the iMac that’s mounted above my dual monitors. I’m thinking about adding Roon. Don’t know if I should put on the iMac or use my Mac mini.


Roon sounds like it shouldn’t be worth the yearly fee, but it’s _definitely_ worth the yearly fee. Having all your collection mixed with Tidal and/or Qobuz, all in one interface is amazing.


----------



## DJJEZ

Ciggavelli said:


> Roon sounds like it shouldn’t be worth the yearly fee, but it’s _definitely_ worth the yearly fee. Having all your collection mixed with Tidal and/or Qobuz, all in one interface is amazing.


Agreed. Roon is life


----------



## JLoud

Spawn300Z said:


> I use the iMac that’s mounted above my dual monitors. I’m thinking about adding Roon. Don’t know if I should put on the iMac or use my Mac mini.


I’m running Roon on my M1 mini. Works like a charm and fits nicely in my audio rig/desk.


----------



## Slim1970

I just switched up my setup. Now we’re making music!


----------



## MatW

Ciggavelli said:


> Roon sounds like it shouldn’t be worth the yearly fee, but it’s _definitely_ worth the yearly fee. Having all your collection mixed with Tidal and/or Qobuz, all in one interface is amazing.


Surely you have a lifetime subscription by now?


----------



## Mh996

Slim1970 said:


> I just switched up my setup. Now we’re making music!


How do you like the Opto DX compared to USB into the M Scaler?


----------



## aphex27

Orlok said:


> odd-order harmonics


you people are sick.


----------



## donato

I just received my TC's late yesterday, but wow.  Soundstaging and bass, of course, are huge.  I'm coming from primarily using a Susvara and was looking for something different to round out my stable of HPs.  I actually did not expect to like the TC based on what I had read, but I definitely see where this has it's place.  Sound is so vivid that I describe it as like almost being overstimulated, like when I have to much caffeine, but what a rush!

I'm driving with my Viva Egoista 845 decked out with PsVane ACME 845 and 1980 Melz 1578.  This has plenty of class A power to drive these and seems to make a great pairing.


----------



## Slim1970

Mh996 said:


> How do you like the Opto DX compared to USB into the M Scaler?


The Opto-DX is probably the single biggest tweak I've made to the TT2/HMS. You don't know how much noise is generated by USB until you don't hear it. I can't believe how much cleaner and darker the background is with the Opto-DX in my setup. Music is more clear, notes are more precise, more defined, and better organized. The notes have weight, instrument separation is phenomenal, the music is even more airy and spacious, the bass is taunt, the midrange is more nuanced, and the treble has incredible clarity. Everything sounds so more transparent and resolution is off the charts.


----------



## Jon L

Slim1970 said:


> The Opto-DX is probably the single biggest tweak I've made to the TT2/HMS. You don't know how much noise is generated by USB until you don't hear it. I can't believe how much cleaner and darker the background is with the Opto-DX in my setup. Music is more clear, notes are more precise, more defined, and better organized. The notes have weight, instrument separation is phenomenal, the music is even more airy and spacious, the bass is taunt, the midrange is more nuanced, and the treble has incredible clarity. Everything sounds so more transparent and resolution is off the charts.


What about this observation from Audiobacon review of Opto-DX?
"[With Opto-DX] the *only* tradeoff that I could find was a less warmblooded, less organic, and “greyer” tone. Personally, this is a deal-breaker as I’ve found this difficult to mitigate"
https://audiobacon.net/2020/02/22/audiowise-opto-dx-the-rf-noise-killer/3/


----------



## Slim1970

Jon L said:


> What about this observation from Audiobacon review of Opto-DX?
> "[With Opto-DX] the *only* tradeoff that I could find was a less warmblooded, less organic, and “greyer” tone. Personally, this is a deal-breaker as I’ve found this difficult to mitigate"
> https://audiobacon.net/2020/02/22/audiowise-opto-dx-the-rf-noise-killer/3/


He seems to like a warmer overall sound. I like a more detailed and open sound and the Opto-DX adds to that. I do have the Snake River Audio Boomslang BNC cables and a set of gold plated silver RCA cables in the mix as well. Both add a tiny bit of warmth back into the mix without the lose of any detail or resolution. My favorite way of infusing some warmth is my iFi Micro iTube2 tube buffer. Together with the warmth of the Luxman my system is very nicely balance from a sound standpoint. At this level it's very important to match components. System synergy is so important in getting the sound you want.


----------



## Orlok

aphex27 said:


> you people are sick.


Yes, and these things are very real.   

https://producerhive.com/ask-the-hive/odd-vs-even-harmonic-distortion/


----------



## paradoxper

donato said:


> I just received my TC's late yesterday, but wow.  Soundstaging and bass, of course, are huge.  I'm coming from primarily using a Susvara and was looking for something different to round out my stable of HPs.  I actually did not expect to like the TC based on what I had read, but I definitely see where this has it's place.  Sound is so vivid that I describe it as like almost being overstimulated, like when I have to much caffeine, but what a rush!
> 
> I'm driving with my Viva Egoista 845 decked out with PsVane ACME 845 and 1980 Melz 1578.  This has plenty of class A power to drive these and seems to make a great pairing.


SR1a makes completion.


----------



## mammal

Slim1970 said:


> The Opto-DX is probably the single biggest tweak I've made to the TT2/HMS. You don't know how much noise is generated by USB until you don't hear it.


Wait, what? I thought Opto-DX is between your HMS and TT2. Those aren't connected via USB, no? That would be BNC. Or am I misunderstanding your sentence? Thanks for clarifying it for me!


----------



## Orlok (Apr 10, 2021)

donato said:


> I just received my TC's late yesterday, but wow.  Soundstaging and bass, of course, are huge.  I'm coming from primarily using a Susvara and was looking for something different to round out my stable of HPs.  I actually did not expect to like the TC based on what I had read, but I definitely see where this has it's place.  Sound is so vivid that I describe it as like almost being overstimulated, like when I have to much caffeine, but what a rush!
> 
> I'm driving with my Viva Egoista 845 decked out with PsVane ACME 845 and 1980 Melz 1578.  This has plenty of class A power to drive these and seems to make a great pairing.


Congrats! I've had mine for little over a week now and it really is an incredible experience but it does need good DAC/amp partnering for one to really appreciate its potential.  Obviously, you were already set with the Viva. Man, that amp sure has this Ferrari/Lamborghini visual and power vibe to it.  

I'm convinced that I'm only scratching the surface of what the TC is capable of and that it will scale virtually infinitely in many directions with tweaks (cables, EQ) and upgrades/side-grades with tube amps and various other components in the future.


----------



## Slim1970

mammal said:


> Wait, what? I thought Opto-DX is between your HMS and TT2. Those aren't connected via USB, no? That would be BNC. Or am I misunderstanding your sentence? Thanks for clarifying it for me!


It all starts with USB into HMS. Once the signal is passed from the HMS to the TT2 the potential for RF is possible. The HMS does have galvanic isolation for the USB signal. I’m not so sure about optical isolation and this is where the Opto-DX comes into play. The Opto-DX modulates the DX signal to optical and back to DX over an optical bridge for total optical galvanic isolation. Then by using the DC battery packs you further reduce noise because the power is isolated by stopping RF from bypassing the optical bridge via the AC mains. It’s a little technical but that’s it in a nutshell.


----------



## Orlok

Jon L said:


> What about this observation from Audiobacon review of Opto-DX?
> "[With Opto-DX] the *only* tradeoff that I could find was a less warmblooded, less organic, and “greyer” tone. Personally, this is a deal-breaker as I’ve found this difficult to mitigate"
> https://audiobacon.net/2020/02/22/audiowise-opto-dx-the-rf-noise-killer/3/


What I find a little confusing with his final conclusion on this review is that he says it's "much more analog sounding" but then says it's "a less warmblooded, less organic, and 'greyer' tone".


----------



## Slim1970

Orlok said:


> What I find a little confusing with his final conclusion on this review is that he says it's "much more analog sounding" but then says it's "a less warmblooded, less organic, and 'greyer' tone".


I wouldn’t call it analog, but it builds on the sound of the TT2/HMS combo and makes it even more natural sounding. The OPTO-DX really takes away any harmful artifacts and gives you a truer signal. The resulting sound is more revealing, more resolving and more transparency.

To me, the Luxman is analog sounding which is why I like the TT2/HMS with it. The highly detailed, resolving capabilities of the TT2/HMS feeding the Luxman is an awesome match. Plug in the Abyss TC’s and you have the sound rivaling some of the best speaker setups. The sound is that good and they synergize so well together


----------



## Ciggavelli

Great death metal album just remastered.  Sounds crazy out of the TCs


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> Great death metal album just remastered.  Sounds crazy out of the TCs


I think we got metal'ed out in the Sus thread.   Meanwhile the ****ing Empy thread is an explosion!


----------



## Orlok

Slim1970 said:


> I wouldn’t call it analog, but it builds on the sound of the TT2/HMS combo and makes it even more natural sounding. The OPTO-DX really takes away any harmful artifacts and gives you a truer signal. The resulting sound is more revealing, more resolving and more transparency.
> 
> To me, the Luxman is analog sounding which is why I like the TT2/HMS with it. The highly detailed, resolving capabilities of the TT2/HMS feeding the Luxman is an awesome match. Plug in the Abyss TC’s and you have the sound rivaling some of the best speaker setups. The sound is that good and they synergize so well together


Very cool. I'll have to seriously consider the OPTO-DX along with batteries for the HMS/TT2 combo - not that I think I have any RFI issues or that I'm "lacking" something right now. But I do know that there is _always_ room for improvement, even if it's slight and incremental.

The Luxman looks great and seems intriguing. I'd love to try it someday - along with so many other amps: WA33 JPS/EE, Bakoon Amp-13R, Wells Audio Headtrip II, Riviera AIC-10, Viva Egoista 845 and the Xi Audio F/S & P. Seems there are so many great amps out there that it makes your head spin.


----------



## Orlok

paradoxper said:


> I think we got metal'ed out in the Sus thread.   Meanwhile the ****ing Empy thread is an explosion!


Just went through the last several days' worth of pages there. You sure are stirring the pot over there.  Personally, I find the TC to be a pretty good value considering what some other headphones go for. I think it could easily be $6K+ considering that's essentially what the Susvara is going for. But, of course, YMMV...


----------



## paradoxper

Orlok said:


> Just went through the last several days' worth of pages there. You sure are stirring the pot over there.  Personally, I find the TC to be a pretty good value considering what some other headphones go for. I think it could easily be $6K+ considering that's essentially what the Susvara is going for. But, of course, YMMV...


I think they started it with the BS conspiracy about proactive negative reviews. It isn't a very good headphone hence the reviews.

I like digressions all the same. Shrugs.


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 10, 2021)

jeez was just reading the empyrean thread. its an all out war with all those guys **** on all the headphones above the empyrean lmao


----------



## Orlok

paradoxper said:


> I think they started it with the BS conspiracy about proactive negative reviews. It isn't a very good headphone hence the reviews.
> 
> I like digressions all the same. Shrugs.


I've seen a lot - maybe too much - of this kind of stuff in the high-end guitar gear side of things. I haven't heard the Empy so I'm not going to say anything about it. Even if I did and didn't like it, I wouldn't talk about it. Based on what I've read, I gather it will be similar to the Beyerdynamic T1 V2 I owned for a while some years ago. It just did not compete against the HD800S but it was about $600 less so I'm not going to diss it.

I've browsed this forum and have seen some funny and nonsensical comments from people who claim to have owned or tried the TC, Susvara and other TOTL HPs and say that whatever they have is "better", etc. Lots of dis-and-misinformation going around, I'm sure. Sad... Well, I just don't have the time for it as someone who just wants to enjoy music and good gear.


----------



## Slim1970

Orlok said:


> Very cool. I'll have to seriously consider the OPTO-DX along with batteries for the HMS/TT2 combo - not that I think I have any RFI issues or that I'm "lacking" something right now. But I do know that there is _always_ room for improvement, even if it's slight and incremental.
> 
> The Luxman looks great and seems intriguing. I'd love to try it someday - along with so many other amps: WA33 JPS/EE, Bakoon Amp-13R, Wells Audio Headtrip II, Riviera AIC-10, Viva Egoista 845 and the Xi Audio F/S & P. Seems there are so many great amps out there that it makes your head spin.


The OPTO-DX is a recommended tweak to add after you‘ve built your system. It definitely adds some refinement to the sound that once you hear it you’ll really appreciate. 

I agree with you that there are so many possible combinations of components to explore. Just try as many as you can until you find a sound signature that suits what you like. There is no right or wrong combination as it really comes down to personal taste. Once you start to get into the upper tier products the costs widens for minimal performance improvements. Not to mention cables, power cords, A/C conditioners and other tweaks you can add. The search can be endless, costly and frustrating at the same time. 

Even with the gear I have I still love trying out new components to see if I hear improvements over what I have. It all just adds to the journey and gives you a new perspective on changes that you could possibly make sonically to your setup. Hopefully at some point I’ll be content with what I have, stop searching, stop looking and start enjoying my setup and headphones.


----------



## donato

Orlok said:


> I've seen a lot - maybe too much - of this kind of stuff in the high-end guitar gear side of things. I haven't heard the Empy so I'm not going to say anything about it. Even if I did and didn't like it, I wouldn't talk about it. Based on what I've read, I gather it will be similar to the Beyerdynamic T1 V2 I owned for a while some years ago. It just did not compete against the HD800S but it was about $600 less so I'm not going to diss it.
> 
> I've browsed this forum and have seen some funny and nonsensical comments from people who claim to have owned or tried the TC, Susvara and other TOTL HPs and say that whatever they have is "better", etc. Lots of dis-and-misinformation going around, I'm sure. Sad... Well, I just don't have the time for it as someone who just wants to enjoy music and good gear.



I owned an Empy not too long ago and I largely agreed with the review that's been part of the firestorm on the Empy thread.  I didn't end up posting my experience about it (and in hindsigt, a good thing lest I incur the wrath of any fanboys), but just quietly sold it.  Just because I didn't enjoy it doesn't mean others don't enjoy it.


----------



## Tachyon88

So is the TC the ultimate PUNCH/SLAM can ? What about the TH900 in comparison ?

If you looked up in your chair would these headphones fall off ? How many of you successfully used the TC in bed and about what position was your torso ?

The form factor is a really big draw back for me, yet I know its part of the feature of the abyss as well. I want to see a TC with maybe an emperyean type headband system ? I dunno if it would be possible for what they're trying to achieve.


----------



## Slim1970

Tachyon88 said:


> So is the TC the ultimate PUNCH/SLAM can ? What about the TH900 in comparison ?
> 
> If you looked up in your chair would these headphones fall off ? How many of you successfully used the TC in bed and about what position was your torso ?
> 
> The form factor is a really big draw back for me, yet I know its part of the feature of the abyss as well. I want to see a TC with maybe an emperyean type headband system ? I dunno if it would be possible for what they're trying to achieve.


It is. After listening to the TC’s, you have to give your ears a rest before picking up another headphone. Otherwise, they’ll sound anemic, dull, and lacking any good sonic attributes.


----------



## donato

I've had most of the day to listen to the TC interspersing a little bit with the Susvara.  The TC's sound is very immersive (soundstaging, dynamics).  I feel like I am in the soundscape.  I had quite a few of those spooky ASMR moments where I felt like someone was in the room with me.  The TC is kind of like the auditory equivalent of VR where the experience is immersive and you think you are in another (generated) space.  The Susvara experience is just a little more distant, like viewing an 8K OLED; beautifully rendered (the timbre is beautiful) but still less immersive.  There is something I find fatiguing too about the TC and to continue my video analogy, it's a bit of the uncanny valley...it has a reasonable illusion of being in that soundspace, but I think something in the back of my brain still senses the artificiality.  The way the TC portrays it, it feels like sometimes the sound is also inside of me which feels unnatural.  Still, it is the closest I've experienced to a speaker like immersion (although I have yet to try the sr1a).


----------



## paradoxper

Orlok said:


> I've seen a lot - maybe too much - of this kind of stuff in the high-end guitar gear side of things. I haven't heard the Empy so I'm not going to say anything about it. Even if I did and didn't like it, I wouldn't talk about it. Based on what I've read, I gather it will be similar to the Beyerdynamic T1 V2 I owned for a while some years ago. It just did not compete against the HD800S but it was about $600 less so I'm not going to diss it.
> 
> I've browsed this forum and have seen some funny and nonsensical comments from people who claim to have owned or tried the TC, Susvara and other TOTL HPs and say that whatever they have is "better", etc. Lots of dis-and-misinformation going around, I'm sure. Sad... Well, I just don't have the time for it as someone who just wants to enjoy music and good gear.


People recoil when confronted with criticism rather than, well, looking it in the face.

I'm ok with moar better attitudes. I will likely request context. Most headphones do have at least a single key strength which is sort of the building block to a headphone nirvana and no headphone is perfect so perhaps a recessed mid is a deal-breaker. As long as there is sufficient experience to bridge a contrast for context, share your anecdotes. We should hold FOTM to the flames more closely.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Orlok said:


> I've seen a lot - maybe too much - of this kind of stuff in the high-end guitar gear side of things. I haven't heard the Empy so I'm not going to say anything about it. Even if I did and didn't like it, I wouldn't talk about it. Based on what I've read, I gather it will be similar to the Beyerdynamic T1 V2 I owned for a while some years ago. It just did not compete against the HD800S but it was about $600 less so I'm not going to diss it.
> 
> I've browsed this forum and have seen some funny and nonsensical comments from people who claim to have owned or tried the TC, Susvara and other TOTL HPs and say that whatever they have is "better", etc. Lots of dis-and-misinformation going around, I'm sure. Sad... Well, I just don't have the time for it as someone who just wants to enjoy music and good gear.


I am not really sure what is being said here. As far as the Empy thread is concerned, it is people exchanging opinions, no? You, for example, shared here that you are very happy with the TC - good . I happen to own both Empy and TC and I see strong advantages with both, and I also have criticism for both (I prefer one more than the other), and i do not see why I should not express this. So, what exactly is wrong? I always see the claim of something being the best as a personal statement, read: the best for their needs within their sphere of knowledge.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 11, 2021)

Slim1970 said:


> The OPTO-DX is a recommended tweak to add after you‘ve built your system. It definitely adds some refinement to the sound that once you hear it you’ll really appreciate.
> 
> I agree with you that there are so many possible combinations of components to explore. Just try as many as you can until you find a sound signature that suits what you like. There is no right or wrong combination as it really comes down to personal taste. Once you start to get into the upper tier products the costs widens for minimal performance improvements. Not to mention cables, power cords, A/C conditioners and other tweaks you can add. The search can be endless, costly and frustrating at the same time.
> 
> Even with the gear I have I still love trying out new components to see if I hear improvements over what I have. It all just adds to the journey and gives you a new perspective on changes that you could possibly make sonically to your setup. Hopefully at some point I’ll be content with what I have, stop searching, stop looking and start enjoying my setup and headphones.


I'm sure I'll get to exploring this option eventually on the front-end of things. I'm kind of thinking about cables for the near-term and a dedicated tube head amp to complement what I have now.

I think it's really important for one to have a clear idea of one's own tastes when it comes to sound and tone. There is so much information about so many different things out there that it can get bewildering and even intimidating. Reading and watching all the reviews, going through a forum/thread like this, hearing comments from dealers and other owners, etc., one has to absorb and decipher all that information and it's not an easy task. I sometimes read rather conflicting reports from, say, two reviewers whom I've come to view as reliable and whose tastes seem to align with mine. I would also read a positive review from someone I respect and then hear something quite contradictory from a dealer I've come to trust. And I'm like: "Hmmm...."  And it's just not feasible to try out all these different things in person that you are considering.

We do, of course, have to do our due diligence and research as thoroughly as possible but I think it's critical to balance all this information with one's own intuition and personal tastes. When I was getting custom guitars and amps made for myself, I would listen to what the builders had to say but didn't take their opinions _too_ seriously because I knew their own tastes differed from mine. They liked certain artists and tones and I understood but that's not what I wanted to go for. I would tell them that _this _is what I want and I know that it's not what they would want for themselves and they would say with a slight bit of sarcasm, "Okay... if that's what _you_ want..."

I think one has to be able to just go with what one really likes and wants and not be influenced by what others say - reviewers or from comments by members in a forum like this. I know that the LCD-4 gets a good deal of flak here and elsewhere but I certainly don't care since it has certain qualities I really like. I've read a good deal of negative things about the SR1a before I decided to go for it and I'm now very happy with it. It's the same with the TC. I've certainly read all the negative stuff too and I think it's good for people to absorb that and weigh things out. When I go to Amazon and want to buy something/anything, I always read all the one/two star reviews to see what issues they had and if this can apply to me. Ultimately, I just have to weigh if that will work for me or not and more than 9 times out of 10, I come out satisfied but, yes, some things just don't pan out as expected.


----------



## Orlok

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I am not really sure what is being said here. As far as the Empy thread is concerned, it is people exchanging opinions, no? You, for example, shared here that you are very happy with the TC - good . I happen to own both Empy and TC and I see strong advantages with both, and I also have criticism for both (I prefer one more than the other), and i do not see why I should not express this. So, what exactly is wrong? I always see the claim of something being the best as a personal statement, read: the best for their needs within their sphere of knowledge.


I wasn't referring to the Empy thread when I mentioned about some comments seeming funny and nonsensical. It was about some HPs in the $1000 range. As for the Empy thread, I've only seen the last 4~5 pages and I said I really don't have anything to say about it because I haven't heard it. But I can say that I've tried and owned a decent number of $750~$1500 headphones in the past. I would go into threads about them since I've owned them in the past and see the comments I mentioned, i.e. denigrate the TOTL headphones and say that these headphones are better, etc. That's all I was getting at.


----------



## Gavin C4

Slim1970 said:


> I just switched up my setup. Now we’re making music!



Really nice setup. Please share more impressions on the Luxman pairing with the Abyss. And also a comparison with other amps


----------



## Stereolab42

That Luxman looks like a stellar amp. Had never heard about it until I saw it on this thread, amazing specs. But apparently only sold in Japan, you need to go through eBay to get it here. Seems like a lost opportunity.


----------



## Slim1970

Stereolab42 said:


> That Luxman looks like a stellar amp. Had never heard about it until I saw it on this thread, amazing specs. But apparently only sold in Japan, you need to go through eBay to get it here. Seems like a lost opportunity.


Used prices are great from Japan, but you can get them new here:

https://www.ttvjaudio.com/Luxman-P750u-Headphone-Amplifier-p/lux0001003.htm

and here

https://www.musicdirect.com/headphone-amp/Luxman-P-750u-Headphone-Amplifier


----------



## DJJEZ

Stereolab42 said:


> That Luxman looks like a stellar amp. Had never heard about it until I saw it on this thread, amazing specs. But apparently only sold in Japan, you need to go through eBay to get it here. Seems like a lost opportunity.


It's sold locally here in the UK by quite a few stores. Where do you live?


----------



## Slim1970

Gavin C4 said:


> Really nice setup. Please share more impressions on the Luxman pairing with the Abyss. And also a comparison with other amps


Just noticed you have the Luxman P-750u in your signature. Your DAC is even more impressive! The Abyss on the P-750u is just superb for all genres of music. I'm listening to some 80's classic rock and pop now with the combo to see how it handles those styles of music. I'm finding the Abyss is doing a stellar job with these compressed tracks out of the Luxman. The P-750u is not trying to analyze the music with the Abyss. Instead the pairing lets you become a part of it. 

The music delivery is smooth, engaging, dynamic and the Abyss remains as technically impressive as ever. Switching over to some Exodus and Slayer and the raw energy from the guitars and double bass drums is amazing and as energetic. The P-750u lets the Abyss be themselves without any compromise and the musical delivery this combo is presenting me is speaker like. It's truly impressive.


----------



## Orlok

Slim1970 said:


> Just noticed you have the Luxman P-750u in your signature. Your DAC is even more impressive! The Abyss on the P-750u is just superb for all genres of music. I'm listening to some 80's classic rock and pop now with the combo to see how it handles those styles of music. I'm finding the Abyss is doing a stellar job with these compressed tracks out of the Luxman. The P-750u is not trying to analyze the music with the Abyss. Instead the pairing lets you become a part of it.
> 
> The music delivery is smooth, engaging, dynamic and the Abyss remains as technically impressive as ever. Switching over to some Exodus and Slayer and the raw energy from the guitars and double bass drums is amazing and as energetic. The P-750u lets the Abyss be themselves without any compromise and the musical delivery this combo is presenting me is speaker like. It's truly impressive.


You've added one more to my amp list, stretching my budget, and making the decision process _way_ more difficult!  Glad to know that you've found such an ideal mate for the 1266 TC. It has a rather large footprint for a SS amp but I'm sure there's a reason for it. This amp definitely looks no-compromise in every way. Are you using the stock power cord or something else, i.e. high-end third party cord? It seems that adding an upgraded power cable is just a given with high-end amps.


----------



## Slim1970 (Apr 11, 2021)

Orlok said:


> You've added one more to my amp list, stretching my budget, and making the decision process _way_ more difficult!  Glad to know that you've found such an ideal mate for the 1266 TC. It has a rather large footprint for a SS amp but I'm sure there's a reason for it. This amp definitely looks no-compromise in every way. Are you using the stock power cord or something else, i.e. high-end third party cord? It seems that adding an upgraded power cable is just a given with high-end amps.


The P-750u is massive! As you can see I can fit quite a bit on its wide and deep footprint. The big footprint actually works to my advantage in this case. I really had no clue how I was going to layout all of these different components, but it turned out nicely. The internals are just as impressive and beautifully laid out with top of the line components used throughout.

Right now I have the JPS Labs PACS Lite power cord attached to it, which is sounding great with it. The P-750u just oozes power. It almost makes my Formula S sound somewhat lite when switching back and forth comparing them with the Abyss TC’s. I’m close to maxing out the volume on my Formula S just to get comparable volume levels. I’m on medium sensitivity on the P-750u and high gain on the Formula S. The Luxman just sounds more authoritative, weighty, and musical in comparison. It brings the same goods to the Susvara’s as well.


----------



## nogi replicant

Slim1970 said:


> The P-750u is massive! As you can see I can fit quite a bit on its wide and deep footprint. The big footprint actually works to my advantage in this case. I really had no clue how I was going to layout all of these different components, but it turned out nicely. The internals are just as impressive and beautifully laid out with top of the line components used throughout.
> 
> Right now I have the JPS Labs PACS Lite power cord attached to it, which is sounding great with it. The P-750u just oozes power. It almost makes my Formula S sound somewhat lite when switching back and forth comparing them with the Abyss TC’s. I’m close to maxing out the volume on my Formula S just to get comparable volume levels. I’m on medium sensitivity on the P-750u and high gain on the Formula S. The Luxman just sounds more authoritative, weighty, and musical in comparison. It brings the same goods to the Susvara’s as well.


So it seems you prefer the P-750u amp over the Formula S with Powerman (I own the latter)? I am also intrigued by the LTA Z10.


----------



## Slim1970 (Apr 12, 2021)

nogi replicant said:


> So it seems you prefer the P-750u amp over the Formula S with Powerman (I own the latter)? I am also intrigued by the LTA Z10.


I like them both, but the P-750u‘s has a very intoxicating sound that is really growing on me. I still prefer the Formula S with my warmer sounding headphones like LCD-4z’s, Ether 2’s, Z1R’s, SE-Master1’s, and R70x’s. They all sound outstanding on the Formula S. So there is a place for both of them in my collection. I haven’t even talked about my modded Flux Labs FA-10 yet . It performs like a speakers and has insane dynamics, an amazing midrange and harder hitting bass than both the P-750u and Formula S. Modded, the FA-10 bested my old V281. That how good that amp is but it lacks the refinement of the other two.


----------



## Orlok

Read an interesting article at musicalhead.de regarding the use of speaker taps of a Riviera AIC-10 to drive the TC and Susvara. The article may have been referenced here before but I'll share here for those who may be interested in using speaker amps to drive the TC as I am now with the TToby. It is quite interesting to note what Wolfgang (the site owner and reviewer) experienced going from the amp's HP outs to speaker taps. He seems almost shocked by the difference and I have to say that I felt about the same. Good read although the German-to-English translation can read a bit funny at times here and there.

https://musicalhead.de/2020/02/22/das-kabel-macht-den-unterschied/


----------



## Spawn300Z

That was one of the articles have me wanting the Riviera AIC-10


----------



## simorag (Apr 12, 2021)

Orlok said:


> Read an interesting article at musicalhead.de regarding the use of speaker taps of a Riviera AIC-10 to drive the TC and Susvara. The article may have been referenced here before but I'll share here for those who may be interested in using speaker amps to drive the TC as I am now with the TToby. It is quite interesting to note what Wolfgang (the site owner and reviewer) experienced going from the amp's HP outs to speaker taps. He seems almost shocked by the difference and I have to say that I felt about the same. Good read although the German-to-English translation can read a bit funny at times here and there.
> 
> https://musicalhead.de/2020/02/22/das-kabel-macht-den-unterschied/



I confirm that using the AIC-10 with the AB-1266 TC via the speaker taps is a significant improvement, especially in terms of (further) soundstage size expansion, dynamics and - most strikingly - punch. It seems that the increased damping factor due to the removal of the single resistor placed on the headphone out is highly beneficial to the Abyss.

As for the Susvara, this is even more apparent, I would go as far as saying that driving the Susvara via the AIC-10 headphone out is underwelming, while I had a very satisfying slam, transparency and speed increase when I used the speaker out (see here).

In both cases, I strongly recommend to fine tune the ECC82 tube to the headphone signature - and personal taste - which can pay nice dividends with a relatively small hassle and investment (Mullard CV491 NOS with the AB-1266 TC in my case).


----------



## ken6217

simorag said:


> I confirm that using the AIC-10 with the AB-1266 TC via the speaker taps is a significant improvement, especially in terms of (further) soundstage size expansion, dynamics and - most strikingly - punch. It seems that the increased damping factor due to the removal of the single resistor placed on the headphone out is highly beneficial.
> 
> As for the Susvara, this is even more apparent, I would go as far as saying that driving the Susvara via the AIC-10 headphone out is underwelming, while I had a very satisfying slam, transparency and speed increased when I used the speaker out (see here).
> 
> In both cases, I strongly recommend to fine tune the ECC82 tube to the headphone signature - and personal taste - which can pay nice dividends with a relatively small hassle and investment (Mullard CV491 NOS with the AB-1266 TC in my case).


So basically in reality they took a speaker amp, dumbed down by putting in a resistor, and therefore it doesn’t sound as good with headphones as it does out of speaker taps.


----------



## ken6217

Oh yea, and charge you $17,000 for that headphone amp. SMH.


----------



## Orlok

ken6217 said:


> So basically in reality they took a speaker amp, dumbed down by putting in a resistor, and therefore it doesn’t sound as good with headphones as it does out of speaker taps.


The reviewer does reply to someone enquiring about the use of speaker taps for some other headphones and this was his reply.


----------



## ken6217

Orlok said:


> The reviewer does reply to someone enquiring about the use of speaker taps for some other headphones and this was his reply.


It would be good then if they put in the manual that is best to use the speaker taps for harder to drive headphones so that they will get the best out of the amp. Of course they would never say that, because they would be saying that their amp can’t drive those headphones as a headphone amp, and therefore why buy the amp.


----------



## mammal

ken6217 said:


> Of course they would never say that, because they would be saying that their amp can’t drive those headphones as a headphone amp, and therefore why buy the amp.


Do they also sell just a speaker amp, without the headphone amp? Perhaps that's a product to offer.


----------



## ken6217

mammal said:


> Do they also sell just a speaker amp, without the headphone amp? Perhaps that's a product to offer.



IDK. Why would anyone buy a speaker amp for $17K that puts out only 10 watts? You could get a Pass Labs X30.8 that puts out 30 watts of pure class A for about 1/3 of it.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 12, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> It would be good then if they put in the manual that is best to use the speaker taps for harder to drive headphones so that they will get the best out of the amp. Of course they would never say that, because they would be saying that their amp can’t drive those headphones as a headphone amp, and therefore why buy the amp.


Well, very few headphones have sensitivity level of less than 90dB so the normal HP outs should work just fine with everything else. Also, using the speaker taps carries the risk of destroying the drivers (as well as one's hearing) so it's not something that should be recommended by any manufacturer. I think this "experiment" comes down to what happens when driving these particular headphones with the extra power reserves.

I tried the TC first with the TT2's SE HP out and then its XLR preamp outs and both sounded great. I would have been perfectly happy with the XLR outs. The extra power did a lot to improve the bass slam, soundstage and dynamics. Then I finally tried the TToby's speaker taps and realized the huge surge of power took it to another level. I don't think there is substitute for raw power. I'm sure that's why some 2-channel listeners use giant mono block amps rated at 500w or more - not to blow out the walls and have the police coming to turn it down.

As a guitar player, I remember going with high-powered amps (50~150w) even though I didn't play any louder than I would have with low-powered amps (15~30w). The higher power provided a much faster transient attack, tighter and punchier low-end and a bigger sound for the style of music I liked to play (hard rock, shred, and a little bit of metal). For classic rock, blues and country, low-powered amps are far more preferable.

I don't think using speaker taps to drive headphones is what any amp manufacturer even considered and would certainly not recommend. Doing so can easily fry any headphone, including the TC and Susvara. It just turned out that users decided to see what doing this could do and the results have been very positive for these particular headphones. It also isn't something that should be widely recommended - especially to novices.


----------



## simorag (Apr 12, 2021)

mammal said:


> Do they also sell just a speaker amp, without the headphone amp? Perhaps that's a product to offer.



The AIC-10 shares the main design principles and general topology of the Riviera Labs "entry level" speaker amplifier, the AFM-25 (25W monoblock, see review here https://www.tonepublications.com/re...b_YZ9zioEDiF0PCAlEg2paTzurz03AKx0qCdnhmv-dN9g).

That said, I don't know whether they "dumbed down" the AFM-25 to make it a headphones and speaker amp to be honest.



ken6217 said:


> Why would anyone buy a speaker amp for $17K that puts out only 10 watts? You could get a Pass Labs X30.8 that puts out 30 watts of pure class A for about 1/3 of it.



As for justifying a high price of a 10W only amplifier compared to more powerful, less expensive ones, that's a very tricky discussion.

If 10W is all you really need (like for most headphones or high efficiency speakers) there are chances - of course, no warranty, and likely not the case of the AIC-10 vs. the XA30.8 - that a 10W amp has the best sonics vs. money ratio. 

Nelson Pass agrees by the way AFAIK


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> Well, very few headphones have sensitivity level of less than 90dB so the normal HP outs should work just fine with everything else. Also, using the speaker taps carries the risk of destroying the drivers (as well as one's hearing) so it's not something that should be recommended by any manufacturer. I think this "experiment" comes down to what happens when driving these particular headphones with the extra power reserves.
> 
> I tried the TC first with the TT2's SE HP out first and then its XLR preamp outs and both sounded great. I would have been perfectly happy with the XLR outs. The extra power did a lot to improve the bass slam, soundstage and dynamics. Then I finally tried the TToby's speaker taps and realized the huge surge of power took it to another level. I don't think there is substitute for raw power. I'm sure that's why some 2-channel listeners use giant mono block amps rated at 500w or more - not to blow out the walls and have the police coming to turn it down.
> 
> ...


This is very good advice.  I’m hardly a novice but I’m very reluctant to use a speaker amp since it’s easy to forget simple things, like remembering to turn the volume down/off before firing up your expensive headphones; I use my Chord 2650 to power my 2.1 system, so I could easily see that happening to me when making a switch from speakers to headphones.  I‘ll likely try it at some point but I’m probably going to use the XLR out on my TT2 or Phonitor 2.  @Orlok has a dedicated set up and the skills to make sure it functions as expected.  Be careful when swimming in the deep end...


----------



## Orlok

Gadget67 said:


> This is very good advice.  I’m hardly a novice but I’m very reluctant to use a speaker amp since it’s easy to forget simple things, like remembering to turn the volume down/off before firing up your expensive headphones; I use my Chord 2650 to power my 2.1 system, so I could easily see that happening to me when making a switch from speakers to headphones.  I‘ll likely try it at some point but I’m probably going to use the XLR out on my TT2 or Phonitor 2.  @Orlok has a dedicated set up and the skills to make sure it functions as expected.  Be careful when swimming in the deep end...


Yes, one can't be careless with this. I always remember to be extra cautious since I do switch back and forth between the TC and SR1a with the TToby. The power output would need to be much higher to drive the SR1a so I have to remember to turn the volume way down or to mute whenever I finish a session with it. That's pretty much what I do now whichever I use: turn the volume all the way down on the TT2 whenever I finish so I don't have to try to remember where I left off the next day.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> IDK. Why would anyone buy a speaker amp for $17K that puts out only 10 watts? You could get a Pass Labs X30.8 that puts out 30 watts of pure class A for about 1/3 of it.


That's far oversimplified even being of the mind the AIC-10 is a particularly less-sounding amp than I have a preference for. 
The AIC-10 is hybrid topology and offers a different sound.

Although being a Pass fan, I would agree that it's hard to find any better across multiple design ethos. J2 is still a remarkably underrated offering.


----------



## mammal

Orlok said:


> Yes, one can't be careless with this. I always remember to be extra cautious since I do switch back and forth between the TC and SR1a with the TToby.


Not that I don't plan to be careful with my TT2's XLR outs, but how is it with TC, if you forget best practices and turn the volume to the max, or disconnect while playing? Will you fry/evaporate TC drivers with TT2's XLRs, or it would survive, but TToby is too much and it won't survive? Just curious, don't expect anyone to actually test this, haha


----------



## Spawn300Z

I will say my TT2 stays at the last level ive used wether it by my TToby or the 1/4" headphone connectors.  But I always turn down just incase prior to turning off.  Its just habit now.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 12, 2021)

mammal said:


> Not that I don't plan to be careful with my TT2's XLR outs, but how is it with TC, if you forget best practices and turn the volume to the max, or disconnect while playing? Will you fry/evaporate TC drivers with TT2's XLRs, or it would survive, but TToby is too much and it won't survive? Just curious, don't expect anyone to actually test this, haha


The TT2's XLR outs are very powerful too. It's enough to drive high-efficiency speakers but I didn't push the volume to the point of it being painful. As long as you have it set at your normal listening levels, you should be fine. It's not a good idea to connect or disconnect while the music is playing or even when not playing and the amp is turned on. Most of the time you should be fine but it could cause a loud popping noise or some sort of current surge and, while it may not fry the drivers, it's best to not risk it.


----------



## Solan (Apr 12, 2021)

Anyone know how the Schiit Jotunheim goes with the 1266? It is 2x7W at 30Ω, pretty linear and with very low THD, so it _should_ sound great. But actual test impressions are the gold standard.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Solan said:


> Anyone know how the Schiit Jotunheim goes with the 1266? It is 2x7W and 30Ω, pretty linear and with very low THD, so it _should_ sound great. But actual test impressions are the gold standard.


I tried this out a few months ago, because I was also curious.  It drives the TCs just fine, but it doesn't drive them particularly well.  Compared to more costly amps, the TCs sound restrained and not very lively.  They don't do the TCs justice at all.  But, I guess it's good for the price, compared to other hp amps that can drive them well.  You get what you pay for though


----------



## jlbrach

I have a topping a90 which I use to travel with at times and for kicks I compared it to both my bakoon 13r and my formula s/powerman....it went exactly as you would assume....


----------



## Roasty

I think it is worth a try to use a speaker amp with the Abyss. If anything, just to experiment and hear for yourself what it is capable of. On the flipside, there are just so many pre/power/integrated amps out there.. To try them all would be impossible. Whether it is worth the trouble.. Well, I am enjoying the abyss with my Athena/Apollon combo but at the same time would be perfectly happy jusy using it with the Milo Reference. With the Susvara, it's a different story though. It sounds a lot better with speaker amps.


----------



## Stereolab42

Solan said:


> Anyone know how the Schiit Jotunheim goes with the 1266? It is 2x7W at 30Ω, pretty linear and with very low THD, so it _should_ sound great. But actual test impressions are the gold standard.


I owned a Jot2 for all of two days before returning it. It had obscene power reserves, could drive my OG Abyss with plenty left on the dial. But it had noise floor problems with very sensitive headphones. For such a scenario I think your choices are limited to THX AAA under $1000, but if you don't or never will drive sensitive headphones then you may not care.


----------



## Solan

Stereolab42 said:


> I owned a Jot2 for all of two days before returning it. It had obscene power reserves, could drive my OG Abyss with plenty left on the dial. But it had noise floor problems with very sensitive headphones. For such a scenario I think your choices are limited to THX AAA under $1000, but if you don't or never will drive sensitive headphones then you may not care.


I have the Focal Arche from before, so the sensitive ones are taken care of. But it will probably be too weak at 2xsomething just in excess of 1W, if I have understood comments here right.

The alternative, for me, would be saving up for the  XI Audio S, since it's very specifically constructed for the 1266. So then I would have one amp for 1266, and one for most everything else. But at that kind of price point, saving takes time, so "budget" is more tempting ... but then again not as an intermediate solution, since that would just delay me by as many $$ as the intermediate amp cost.


----------



## DJJEZ

Solan said:


> I have the Focal Arche from before, so the sensitive ones are taken care of. But it will probably be too weak at 2xsomething just in excess of 1W, if I have understood comments here right.
> 
> The alternative, for me, would be saving up for the  XI Audio S, since it's very specifically constructed for the 1266. So then I would have one amp for 1266, and one for most everything else. But at that kind of price point, saving takes time, so "budget" is more tempting ... but then again not as an intermediate solution, since that would just delay me by as many $$ as the intermediate amp cost.


The formula S is excellent with not only the 1266 but many other headphones. Quite a few members here use it with multiple headphones


----------



## Orlok (Apr 13, 2021)

Man, the 1266 TC is slowly but surely reawakening the dormant metalhead in me.  Started going through various death and black metal playlists on Qobuz and I'd look up some of these bands on Wiki and then one thing will lead to another. Being a big classical music fan and having loved neoclassical shredding of Yngwie Malmsteen, Racer X, Tony MacAlpine, and Cacophony back in the 80's as well as prog metal of Dream Theater and Symphony X, I couldn't help but wander into the symphonic metal realm. Have been checking out Epica, Nightwish, Therion and Within Temptation. It almost sounds as if this kind of stuff was tailor-made to be experienced through the TC.

Yeah, it's bombastic and cheesy at times with the Cirque du Soleil wall of sound, epic Lord of the Rings soundtrack drama, female operatic vocals, death metal growling, super heavy distorted guitar riffing interspersed with proficient shredding thrown in here and there, and symphonic orchestral keyboard layering - it's total sensory overload but, man, it all sounds so _amazing_ through the TC! Haha. Love it!


----------



## MatW

DJJEZ said:


> The formula S is excellent with not only the 1266 but many other headphones. Quite a few members here use it with multiple headphones


I use the Formula S for multiple headphones indeed, but I added a THX AAA 789 for IEMs. Both the Formula S and the headphone socket of the DAVE produce too much noise for IEMs.


----------



## best56

mulder01 said:


> [USER = 451084] @FLTWS [/ USER] Perché nascondere i commenti più rilevanti al thread dietro gli spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





mulder01 said:


> [USER = 451084] @FLTWS [/ USER] Perché nascondere i commenti più rilevanti al thread dietro gli spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## best56

Here the last Setup for Abyss 1266 & Wells Audio HeadTrip


----------



## Articnoise

simorag said:


> The AIC-10 shares the main design principles and general topology of the Riviera Labs "entry level" speaker amplifier, the AFM-25 (25W monoblock, see review here https://www.tonepublications.com/re...b_YZ9zioEDiF0PCAlEg2paTzurz03AKx0qCdnhmv-dN9g).
> 
> That said, I don't know whether they "dumbed down" the AFM-25 to make it a headphones and speaker amp to be honest.
> 
> ...


 Yep “The _first watt is the most_ important _watt_.” “Who cares what an amplifier sounds like at 500 watts if it sounds like crap at one watt?”


----------



## best56

Articnoise said:


> Yep “The _first watt is the most_ important _watt_.” “Who cares what an amplifier sounds like at 500 watts if it sounds like crap at one watt?”


----------



## best56

It seems to me that you haven't even listened to that one 1 watt...let alone 50 watts...Live serene


----------



## DJJEZ

best56 said:


> Here the last Setup for Abyss 1266 & Wells Audio HeadTrip


That purple and black cable


----------



## Solan

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Agreed. For example, my Focal Arche powers the ab-1266tc without any problems. In fact, I was surprised how good the combo is.


That is VERY good news! I have an Arche, and have ordered 1266, but my wallet was deeply worried about the next step.


----------



## JLoud

Eventually your wallet will get used to it and stop worrying. Or just give up.


----------



## ra990

The TC really isn't that hard to power. I get ample drive from amps of all price ranges.


----------



## makan

The Eagle has landed.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

@makan very nice! what headphone(s) are you using with WA33?


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 13, 2021)

makan said:


> The Eagle has landed.


Oh man that is beautiful. Congrats.  Hopefully next year I can manage one


----------



## jlbrach

ra990 said:


> The TC really isn't that hard to power. I get ample drive from amps of all price ranges.


it is hard to power properly....


----------



## makan

HiFiGuy528 said:


> @makan very nice! what headphone(s) are you using with WA33?


TC


----------



## ra990

jlbrach said:


> it is hard to power properly....


Of course, quality power is different, but they're not like the Susvara and you can get decent drive out of relatively cheap amps with not a mountain of power reserves.


----------



## jlbrach

actually my abyss requires almost as much power to drive them properly as does the susvara...yes, the abyss can be driven a bit easier by a lesser amp but in truth in order to take advanatge of them and proper amp is needed and it isnt only about power...there are many excellent amp options out there


----------



## m17xr2b

ra990 said:


> The TC really isn't that hard to power. I get ample drive from amps of all price ranges.


That is very true, but any unit or preamp using generic conductive plastic such as an Alps pot found in many high end commercial integrated amplifiers will never get the best sound of the Abyss or other high end HPs. Ignorance is bliss sometimes, best not to know what one's missing.


----------



## ra990

m17xr2b said:


> That is very true, but any unit or preamp using generic conductive plastic such as an Alps pot found in many high end commercial integrated amplifiers will never get the best sound of the Abyss or other high end HPs. Ignorance is bliss sometimes, best not to know what one's missing.


That's the thing, once you've had a taste of something better, it's hard to go back. I acquired my first Abyss pair when I had just a Hugo 2. I drove it out of the Hugo 2 and was happy with that until I got a V281, and so on...

My point is, unlike the Susvara, the Abyss are still pretty fun, dynamic, and impressive even with a lesser amp. The Susvara sound dead until you drive them properly.


----------



## jlbrach

I surely wouldnt want to listen to my 1266 tc out of my hugo 2...could it be done I guess so but very unsatisfactorily


----------



## Orlok (Apr 13, 2021)

As stated earlier in a review on this thread, my only experience driving the TC has been with the TT2's SE and XLR outs and the TToby's speaker taps. I started out with the SE and I thought it sounded great. Turned up to my normal listening levels (80~85dB peak) and even louder (probably 90~95dB which is uncomfortably loud for me) and didn't think _at all_ that something was missing. Then I tried the TT2's XLR outs at my normal listening level and immediately noticed a bigger soundstage and a firmer and punchier bass. It was a very noticeable improvement and I was feeling extremely satisfied. My initial review was only with the SE output.

The next day, while I was still very much enjoying the TT2's XLR outs, I decided to finally try the TToby's speaker taps after the encouragement to do so from @Spawn300Z. I thought, "Okay, okay. I guess I might as well since I ordered the speaker taps adapter to try that out." Honestly, I wasn't expecting there to be that much of an improvement over the TT2's XLR outs. The XLR outs measured plenty hot - definitely a good deal more than enough to drive the TC. So I thought that I'd try it and then go back to the TT2's XLRs. Also, I was also somewhat worried about the risks involved and frying the TC's drivers as well as damaging my ears if this wasn't handled cautiously. So I really thought that I'd try it to say I've tried it and move on.

After hooking the TC up to the TToby's speaker taps, I nervously turned up the volume from zero _very _slowly to my normal listening level. As I did so, I could not believe what was happening. The soundstage just seemed to keep expanding in every single direction but especially in depth and height. The imaging and the placement of the instruments also improved at the same rate - getting bigger in sound but also more defined in their respective positions. The improvement of the bass frequencies was startling. It seemed to occupy a bigger portion of the soundstage than before but it stayed locked firmly in its position and did not at all interfere with other instruments and frequencies. As my wife noted, it was as if the singer and the all the band members got put in their places in a three-dimensional space. And I wasn't even close to having the volume at my normal listening level. I was already hearing this huge improvement at around 75dB.

When I reached 80~85dB, it was like lights out (the TT2's gain setting at high and the volume ball color at red, around -40 to -45). There was simply no comparison to what I had been hearing compared to the TT2's SE and XLR outs. It is pretty much exactly as Wolfgang described in his musicalhead.de review/article about testing the TC and the Susvara with the Riviera AIC-10's speaker taps. It was just at another level. I would not need to play at louder volume. If the TT2's volume ball is displaying light ruby red, I'm fine. If the recording's output level is low as typically found on older recordings, I may go up to around -35 to compensate but, for me, 75~80dB is my sweet spot. For me, it's the perfect level to hear all the details without having too much sound pressure on my ears.

Another thing I've noticed is the speed and clarity of the bass and low-mids. The notes in this frequency range have more weight and body than before but punched faster and harder. At the same, because everything sounds so much bigger, I can discern all the textures of the instruments better than ever before. I was really able to notice this with music that has extremely fast passages. I'm a big fan of technically advanced and virtuosic music - Franz Liszt's terrifyingly virtuosic piano music, the liquid legato of fusion guitar legend Allan Holdsworth, the over-the-top rock guitar shred of Guthrie Govan, the sheets-of-sound sax playing of John Coltrane, and whatever else that has mind-boggling technique and speed. Last night, I was also checking out a death metal band called Necrophagist with some extreme drumming. The kick drums were pummeling faster than a machine gun spitting out bullets but I was able to hear each beat with amazing clarity and punch. I've never experienced that before.

I can now hear each note and drum beat in the super fast passages of this type of technical virtuosic music with such clarity and definition that it almost feels as if time has slowed down for me to enjoy and savor them instead of passing by in a blur. I really understand now how the extra reserves of power (_quality power,_ of course) benefit the overall sound quality. As a guitar player, I used to wonder why bass players felt they needed to use 600~1,000+ watt amps. Guitar amps can get deafening loud at 50 watts. Eventually, I learned that bass frequencies simply need more power - a _lot_ more - to get pushed out with speed, cohesion, clarity and punch. It wasn't about getting or being louder than everyone else in the band.

I can honestly say that I'm hearing all this and more by driving the TC with the TToby. I still plan to get a dedicated powerful tube headphone amp late this year or early next year but I definitely plan to keep the TToby around if only to drive the TC as a different flavor. One thing I noticed about the WA33 that I find very attractive is that it can also be used as a preamp with balanced out to connect to a power amp to drive speakers and, of course, the TC. Now that's something to dream about over the remainder of the year.


----------



## Homrsimson

Has anyone compared using a lazuli reference cable to the SC? I’ve got this Danacable (utopia connectors but I have some excellent furutech adapters), and it sounds pretty outstanding to me. Tames the bass a bit while accentuating the mids, which is what I’ve heard the SC does as well. It is tempting me to just be content with this option plus the stock cable.


----------



## donato

Orlok said:


> As stated earlier in a review on this thread, my only experience driving the TC has been with the TT2's SE and XLR outs and the TToby's speaker taps. I started out with the SE and I thought it sounded great. Turned up to my normal listening levels (80~85dB peak) and even louder (probably 90~95dB which is uncomfortably loud for me) and didn't think _at all_ that something was missing. Then I tried the TT2's XLR outs at my normal listening level and immediately noticed a bigger soundstage and a firmer and punchier bass. It was a very noticeable improvement and I was feeling extremely satisfied. My initial review was only with the SE output.
> 
> The next day, while I was still very much enjoying the TT2's XLR outs, I decided to finally try the TToby's speaker taps after the encouragement to do so from @Spawn300Z. I thought, "Okay, okay. I guess I might as well since I ordered the speaker taps adapter to try that out." Honestly, I wasn't expecting there to be that much of an improvement over the TT2's XLR outs. The XLR outs measured plenty hot - definitely a good deal more than enough to drive the TC. So I thought that I'd try it and then go back to the TT2's XLRs. Also, I was also somewhat worried about the risks involved and frying the TC's drivers as well as damaging my ears if this wasn't handled cautiously. So I really thought that I'd try it to say I've tried it and move on.
> 
> ...



Nice write up.  Yes, difficult to drive HPs like the TC and Susvara very much benefit from being sufficiently powered (whether speaker amp or HP amp) and my experience is exactly the same as yours...the soundstage just opens up and bass is significantly firmed up.  Plus if an amp is being pushed near it's limits at all, then dynamic compression (the opposite of the open sound you can achieve) or possibly distorition (esp. with tubes) happens.  it's sometimes difficult to convey to people who haven't heard it what a dramatic improvement it can make (and it's not subtle).  There is a lot of hyperbole in this hobby, so I can't blame people for being skeptical or if what they have is the best sound they've heard, it's hard to imagine how it could be better, but it really is a shame to not drive these HPs adequately to unlock that much of their performance.  I'd just recommend people to at least find a way to try it and experience it for themselves.


----------



## Roasty

Homrsimson said:


> Has anyone compared using a lazuli reference cable to the SC? I’ve got this Danacable (utopia connectors but I have some excellent furutech adapters), and it sounds pretty outstanding to me. Tames the bass a bit while accentuating the mids, which is what I’ve heard the SC does as well. It is tempting me to just be content with this option plus the stock cable.



What a coincidence.. Someone just asked me about the SC cable today via pm, and I spoke of the Danacable LR just as you described it. 

I have the LR and SC cables but have not tried the LR with the 1266 as I don't have the necessary adaptors. Maybe time to go source a set..


----------



## Homrsimson

Roasty said:


> What a coincidence.. Someone just asked me about the SC cable today via pm, and I spoke of the Danacable LR just as you described it.
> 
> I have the LR and SC cables but have not tried the LR with the 1266 as I don't have the necessary adaptors. Maybe time to go source a set..



I have used a polish company called Shipido for utopia to 1266 adapters and utopia to ZMF adapters. I’ve noticed degradation with other adapters but not with these guys; you might want to check them out. I’m a good story for that lol, I bought the lazuli and these adapters thinking I would always keep my utopia. Then I got onto the TC and realized that was my endgame, and I’m in this odd situation of having a lazuli reference with no utopia. Doesn’t really matter because of how good the adapters are. I also find it hard to stomach selling off all this stuff to go the SC route given the cost of the SC. Maybe one day if I can get a great deal on an 8 foot xlr cable


----------



## JLoud

I have some nice Norne adapters for TC to 1/8, They are basically Silvergarde cables in a short adapter. I haven't heard any difference either. I believe they were like $125 for the adapters. I have several for different headphones. Beats buying whole new cables.


----------



## JLoud

And thanks Roasty for the info on the SC cable. I ended up buying one. So I will see for myself in a few days.


----------



## BrowChan (Apr 14, 2021)

Orlok said:


> As stated earlier in a review on this thread, my only experience driving the TC has been with the TT2's SE and XLR outs and the TToby's speaker taps. I started out with the SE and I thought it sounded great. Turned up to my normal listening levels (80~85dB peak) and even louder (probably 90~95dB which is uncomfortably loud for me) and didn't think _at all_ that something was missing. Then I tried the TT2's XLR outs at my normal listening level and immediately noticed a bigger soundstage and a firmer and punchier bass. It was a very noticeable improvement and I was feeling extremely satisfied. My initial review was only with the SE output.
> 
> The next day, while I was still very much enjoying the TT2's XLR outs, I decided to finally try the TToby's speaker taps after the encouragement to do so from @Spawn300Z. I thought, "Okay, okay. I guess I might as well since I ordered the speaker taps adapter to try that out." Honestly, I wasn't expecting there to be that much of an improvement over the TT2's XLR outs. The XLR outs measured plenty hot - definitely a good deal more than enough to drive the TC. So I thought that I'd try it and then go back to the TT2's XLRs. Also, I was also somewhat worried about the risks involved and frying the TC's drivers as well as damaging my ears if this wasn't handled cautiously. So I really thought that I'd try it to say I've tried it and move on.
> 
> ...


Did you know that I exhausted all my savings to get the TT2? Now you been saying TToby producing bigger bass, bigger soundstage.....but wait.....I need a bigger wallet before that. 🤣

Edit: I actually have a Loki Mini+ on order too. Curious to see how to fares with my HPs.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 14, 2021)

BrowChan said:


> Did you know that I exhausted all my savings to get the TT2? Now you been saying TToby producing bigger bass, bigger soundstage.....but wait.....I need a bigger wallet before that. 🤣
> 
> Edit: I actually have a Loki Mini+ on order too. Curious to see how to fares with my HPs.


Haha. Well, I happened to have the TToby to drive speakers, which it's obviously great for but I don't listen with speakers that much. It's pretty good for the SR1a too but not enough power and not quite the perfect match tonally but, somehow, it's now paying off handsomely as the power driver for the TC. That being said, I know that the TC will sound even better with the WA33 and the JPS SC so, yes, I'll need a bigger wallet too!   But, seriously, the TC sounded absolutely great with the TT2's XLR outs. I would have been very happy with that and I'm sure you will be too.


----------



## BrowChan

Orlok said:


> Haha. Well, I happened to have the TToby to drive speakers, which it's obviously great for but I don't listen with speakers that much. It's pretty good for the SR1a too but not enough power and not quite the perfect match tonally but, somehow, it's now paying off handsomely as the power driver for the TC. That being said, I know that the TC will sound even better with the WA33 and the JPS SC so, yes, I'll need a bigger wallet too!


Lol, I think if someone were to plot a time-money graph of our wallets, we’ll see a sinusoidal one.

But hey, I’m curious to know what differences you gonna find b/w WA33 and your TToby. And I wonder if I’m gonna get something before you do that!


----------



## mammal

BrowChan said:


> I think if someone were to plot a time-money graph of our wallets, we’ll see a sinusoidal one.


I think it would be more a cosinus (aka not starting at 0), as most people come to head-fi with non-empty wallet, but I agree it goes quickly to 0 and then oscillates around it, haha.


----------



## BrowChan

mammal said:


> I think it would be more a cosinus (aka not starting at 0), as most people come to head-fi with non-empty wallet, but I agree it goes quickly to 0 and then oscillates around it, haha.


You’re right, but it could be *rectified*.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 14, 2021)

BrowChan said:


> Lol, I think if someone were to plot a time-money graph of our wallets, we’ll see a sinusoidal one.
> 
> But hey, I’m curious to know what differences you gonna find b/w WA33 and your TToby. And I wonder if I’m gonna get something before you do that!


Yes, this is a never-ending quest. We just have to plot this out with the long-term in mind.

Well, trying to describe all the differences between a SS system and a tube rig would require pages of flowery prose so I won't get into that here.  But, generally speaking, at least between the TT2/TToby and the WA33, I expect more midrange warmth, smoothing out of some treble frequencies (sweetness), greater soundstage depth and dimension which will result in even better imaging, more harmonic content, more airiness in the high treble range, and a more elastic but still very firm and punchy bass. Basically, these are the differences I have experienced when comparing really good solid state and TOTL tube guitar amps side by side.


----------



## BrowChan

Orlok said:


> Yes, this is a never-ending quest. We just have to plot this out with the long-term in mind.
> 
> Well, trying to describe all the differences between a SS system and a tube rig would require pages of flowery prose so I won't get into that here.  But, generally speaking, at least between the TT2/TToby and the WA33, I expect more midrange warmth, smoothing out of some treble frequencies (sweetness), greater soundstage depth and dimension which will result in even better imaging, more harmonic content, more airiness in the high treble range, and a more elastic but still very firm and punchy bass. Basically, these are the differences I have experienced when comparing really good solid state and TOTL tube guitar amps side by side.


I can’t say no to that. 
More power vs Tube. I’d expect more power to give more soundstage. But I only have auditioning experiences with tube/s. Would need them side by side to know the soundstage differences.

It’s nice that you have preliminary experience with your guitar AMPs. It’s possible to better imagine. Otherwise, imaginations can be skewed.


----------



## Orlok

BrowChan said:


> I can’t say no to that.
> More power vs Tube. I’d expect more power to give more soundstage. But I only have auditioning experiences with tube/s. Would need them side by side to know the soundstage differences.
> 
> It’s nice that you have preliminary experience with your guitar AMPs. It’s possible to better imagine. Otherwise, imaginations can be skewed.


Yeah, I can't say what the detailed differences will be in regards to the size of the soundstage without having them side by side but the WA33 is quite powerful - certainly more than enough to drive the TC and Susvara efficiently. As I mentioned, the WA33 can also be used as a preamp with its XLR outs to connect to a power amp and drive speakers and the TC as well.  Now, that would be a _very_ interesting sound. So many possibilities for sure...


----------



## best56

DJJEZ said:


> Quel cavo viola e nero  : beyersmile:


Cable Afternarket by Invictus Cable. Cable Lirz UP-OCC CRYO 7N


----------



## best56

BrowChan said:


> Non posso dire di no a questo. :dita incrociate:
> Più potenza vs Tube. Mi aspetterei più potenza per dare più soundstage. Ma ho solo esperienze di audizione con i tubi. Avrebbero bisogno di loro fianco a fianco per conoscere le differenze del palcoscenico.
> 
> È bello che tu abbia esperienza preliminare con i tuoi amplificatori per chitarra. È possibile immaginare meglio. Altrimenti, l'immaginazione può essere distorta.


This my Valve Driver Huraca'n 845 S.E., that use with my Abyss and other Flagship Headphones. Power 15+15 Watt


----------



## paradoxper

best56 said:


> This my Valve Driver Huraca'n 845 S.E., that use with my Abyss and other Flagship Headphones. Power 15+15 Watt


Very gaudy. The design is interesting. Seems similar to the Aventador 845.


----------



## best56

paradoxper said:


> Very gaudy. The design is interesting. Seems similar to the Aventador 845.


Yes is evolution of my Aventador 845. Here change the External Power with other two Trafo fo Balance Signal and Some Impedence of Headphones.


----------



## makan

OMG, the Woo WA33 is WOW with the TC. I think I have reached the planar end game for me.


----------



## JLoud

I absolutely love my WA33 and the TC. The LCD4 is fantastic with it as well. I think the two make a great combo of headphones.


----------



## makan

JLoud said:


> I absolutely love my WA33 and the TC. The LCD4 is fantastic with it as well. I think the two make a great combo of headphones.


looks like we are both using the same DAC as well, the Yggy.  I ended up selling my LCD4 to fund the Woo.


----------



## paradoxper

best56 said:


> Yes is evolution of my Aventador 845. Here change the External Power with other two Trafo fo Balance Signal and Some Impedence of Headphones.


Ah. Nice progression. I can definitely see the inspiration from Viva.


----------



## SuperBurrito

My TCs will finally arrive on Friday - Awesome.  For now they'll be used with a Luxman P-750U amp and a DCS Rossini.  I'll report back with impressions.


----------



## Mh996

Well, my Morrow Audio interconnects and AC cord delivered, but the banana to XLR adapter is stuck in the hell that is FedEx’s Memphis hub. I’m still optimistic that I’ll have some TToby impressions by the end of the week.


----------



## BrowChan

best56 said:


> This my Valve Driver Huraca'n 845 S.E., that use with my Abyss and other Flagship Headphones. Power 15+15 Watt


Seems like you have your own thread also for this: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-huracan-845-s-e.899059/

I am surprised by its price. Cause I thought it would cost 10K or more. They look pretty awesome thou! Wonder what they sound like. This hobby invokes strange feelings, haha.


----------



## typalder

Orlok said:


> Read an interesting article at musicalhead.de regarding the use of speaker taps of a Riviera AIC-10 to drive the TC and Susvara. The article may have been referenced here before but I'll share here for those who may be interested in using speaker amps to drive the TC as I am now with the TToby. It is quite interesting to note what Wolfgang (the site owner and reviewer) experienced going from the amp's HP outs to speaker taps. He seems almost shocked by the difference and I have to say that I felt about the same. Good read although the German-to-English translation can read a bit funny at times here and there.
> 
> https://musicalhead.de/2020/02/22/das-kabel-macht-den-unterschied/


I said it a hundred times: A good speaker Amp will always outperform an HP Amp in the same price range. And even more: My Accuphase E350 Speaker Amp easily outperform every HP Amp i tested.


----------



## typalder

ken6217 said:


> So basically in reality they took a speaker amp, dumbed down by putting in a resistor, and therefore it doesn’t sound as good with headphones as it does out of speaker taps.


no resistor needed with the 1266. you just need an resistor if you use a tube amp.


----------



## typalder

Orlok said:


> Well, very few headphones have sensitivity level of less than 90dB so the normal HP outs should work just fine with everything else. Also, using the speaker taps carries the risk of destroying the drivers (as well as one's hearing) so it's not something that should be recommended by any manufacturer. I think this "experiment" comes down to what happens when driving these particular headphones with the extra power reserves.
> 
> I tried the TC first with the TT2's SE HP out and then its XLR preamp outs and both sounded great. I would have been perfectly happy with the XLR outs. The extra power did a lot to improve the bass slam, soundstage and dynamics. Then I finally tried the TToby's speaker taps and realized the huge surge of power took it to another level. I don't think there is substitute for raw power. I'm sure that's why some 2-channel listeners use giant mono block amps rated at 500w or more - not to blow out the walls and have the police coming to turn it down.
> 
> ...


i`m using an accuphase  speaker amp for my 1266. never had any issues. just a far better sound than with every HP amp i tested.


----------



## best56

paradoxper said:


> Ah. Nice progression. I can definitely see the inspiration from Viva.


I've had the Viva Egoista 845, but Huraca'n & Aventador is the Best Audio.


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## best56 (Apr 15, 2021)

BrowChan said:


> Seems like you have your own thread also for this: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-huracan-845-s-e.899059/
> 
> I am surprised by its price. Cause I thought it would cost 10K or more. They look pretty awesome thou! Wonder what they sound like. This hobby invokes strange feelings, haha.


The first three examples enjoyed an introductory price of € 5.5K. For the next models, we have set ourselves a range between 6.5K and 8.0K, depending on the finish of the paintwork and the choice of power valves. Delivery time is about 6 months, as it is entirely handmade here in Italy. The Huraca'n 845-MKII will be released soon.
If anyone is interested in your Order, I can provide further information about the Product. I am its Designer and I collaborate with a company here in Italy.


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## best56

This the first... Aventador 845!!!


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## Orlok

Any Evanescence fans here? Been listening to their new 'The Bitter Truth' album that was released a few weeks ago and, man, the sound is just so utterly massive and a perfect match for all that the TC is capable of. What an amalgamation of rock, metal, electronic, and modern pop in one tight cohesive package and state of the art production to boot. _This_ is what I got the TC for. Highly recommended to experience the TC in all its glory.


----------



## mammal

Orlok said:


> Any Evanescence fans here?


----------



## paradoxper

best56 said:


> I've had the Viva Egoista 845, but Huraca'n & Aventador is the Best Audio.


Well, good luck.


----------



## DJJEZ

Orlok said:


> Any Evanescence fans here? Been listening to their new 'The Bitter Truth' album that was released a few weeks ago and, man, the sound is just so utterly massive and a perfect match for all that the TC is capable of. What an amalgamation of rock, metal, electronic, and modern pop in one tight cohesive package and state of the art production to boot. _This_ is what I got the TC for. Highly recommended to experience the TC in all its glory.


Added it to roon. Will have a listen tonight


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## Orlok

DJJEZ said:


> Added it to roon. Will have a listen tonight


Cool. I think you'll dig it. I had been checking out some symphonic metal stuff but, after a while, they started sounding the same between different bands with the same formulas and the I didn't find the vocals all that great. But Amy Lee is something else altogether as a singer and writer and the band's musicianship and the production quality are at a whole different level. Also, I like it that it has more of a straight ahead alternative rock/pop styling and vibe than overwrought classical/prog elements. This album really sounds great turned up. I've definitely been listening to it at louder than normal levels - probably at around 90dB - and no ear fatigue at all.


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## Tachyon88 (Apr 15, 2021)

Orlok said:


> Cool. I think you'll dig it. I had been checking out some symphonic metal stuff but, after a while, they started sounding the same between different bands with the same formulas and the I didn't find the vocals all that great. But Amy Lee is something else altogether as a singer and writer and the band's musicianship and the production quality are at a whole different level. Also, I like it that it has more of a straight ahead alternative rock/pop styling and vibe than overwrought classical/prog elements. This album really sounds great turned up. I've definitely been listening to it at louder than normal levels - probably at around 90dB - and no ear fatigue at all.



It has been difficult to find some new music within a genre you like when it all starts to sound the same, lol.

2nd song had audible distortion throughout the entire song using deezer hifi though.


----------



## Orlok

Tachyon88 said:


> It has been difficult to find some new music within a genre you like when it all starts to sound the same, lol.
> 
> 2nd song had audible distortion throughout the entire song using deezer hifi though.


Well, as a longtime musician myself and having been in the industry for over three decades, I know how tough it is to _write_ good music - especially when it comes to writing hooks and something catchy. That's a talent and skill that one either has or doesn't. I've known some incredible musicians and virtuosos on their instruments but they couldn't write a simple catchy tune to save their lives. It's hard. I knew early on that I couldn't do it. That's why moved onto the business of making and selling guitars. Haha.

No issues at all with Qobuz and YT seems to be fine as well.


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## Tachyon88

@Orlok 2nd song broken pieces shine. Its more audbile on deezer throughout probably because youtube is lower quality, but on youtube at 26 seconds I hear it. I also hear it on my speakers too.


----------



## Orlok

Tachyon88 said:


> @Orlok 2nd song broken pieces shine. Its more audbile on deezer throughout probably because youtube is lower quality, but on youtube at 26 seconds I hear it. I also hear it on my speakers too.


I wonder if what you are hearing is something that was intentional on the production. The recording level does sound pretty hot throughout the whole album. I think I know what you are referring to.


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## Tachyon88 (Apr 15, 2021)

@Orlok I hear it a lot in rock/metal songs, even the ones that are well recorded over all. Sometimes there is just one part in the song that has this tinge of distortion or "artifact" around the guitar or drums either during the note or at the end of it. I always think "oh gawd is it the headphone ?", but then I try it on my other cans, amps and speakers and its still there.


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## Orlok (Apr 15, 2021)

Tachyon88 said:


> @Orlok I hear it a lot in rock/metal songs, even the ones that are well recorded over all. Sometimes there is just one part in the song that has this tinge of distortion or "artifact" around the guitar or drums either during the note or at the end of it. I always think "oh gawd is it the headphone ?", but then I try it on my other cans, amps and speakers and its still there.


Yes, this is not unusual. I think they do this to get a "live" feel of the PA system in a venue getting pushed to its limits and the effect is more of getting pummeled than really listening to the details. After all, isn't going to a live rock/metal concert about getting your ear drums pummeled than getting an audiophile experience?


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## Tachyon88

Orlok said:


> Yes, this is not unusual. I think they do this to get a "live" feel of the PA system in a venue getting pushed to its limits and the effect is more of getting pummeled than really listening to the details.


 Yeah, not exactly sure how it gets there along the recording process as I am completely ignorant of music production. I was just pointing out what I heard though.


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## Orlok

Tachyon88 said:


> Yeah, not exactly sure how it gets there along the recording process as I am completely ignorant of music production. I was just pointing out what I heard though.


Oh, believe me, distortion is used constantly (if not as much as reverb and echo/delay effects) as an effect during the production process - even on vocals and keyboards as well as the overall mix, sometimes subtly and sometimes overtly. Rock, metal, and roots-oriented artists and bands don't want to project a sound that is too glossy or slick sounding or - gasp - audiophile-like. Haha.


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## Orlok (Apr 15, 2021)

I just made another minor discovery although it was something I had somewhat suspected. Initially, I connected the TC direct to the TToby's speaker taps with the adapter but later connected the TToby's out to the RAAL SR1a's interface box and used its speaker thru jacks so that I can switch between the two easily. I figured that there'd be slight degradation to the SQ but went with this setup for the convenience of switching between the TC and the SR1a with the flip of a switch. I hadn't done an A/B to test the difference - until now.

Well, I am listening to this Evanescence album again connected direct to the TToby and it's no contest. It sounds _*so*_ much better than using the speaker-thru jacks of the SR1a's interface box. The sound is more open, clearer, the soundstage is even bigger and the treble is now sweeter. Lesson learned. Be very wary of anything you add in your signal chain for the sake of convenience and make sure you do a thorough A/B before and after...


----------



## Orlok

Spoiling my teenage son and grooming him to become an audiophile. Haha. He's a really good guitar player (loves metal and electronic) and pianist as well so he can definitely appreciate great sound and has the HD800S I handed down to him. Obviously, he's in awe of the TC. I told him, "Better study hard and get a really good job, boy!"


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> Spoiling my teenage son and grooming him to become an audiophile. Haha. He's a really good guitar player (loves metal and electronic) and pianist as well so he can definitely appreciate great sound and has the HD800S I handed down to him. Obviously, he's in awe of the TC. I told him, "Better study hard and get a really good job, boy!"


He should hire me to renegotiate his allowance...


----------



## Spawn300Z

Orlok said:


> Spoiling my teenage son and grooming him to become an audiophile. Haha. He's a really good guitar player (loves metal and electronic) and pianist as well so he can definitely appreciate great sound and has the HD800S I handed down to him. Obviously, he's in awe of the TC. I told him, "Better study hard and get a really good job, boy!"


my son was a mini me when it came to audio up until he passed away.


----------



## Orlok

Spawn300Z said:


> my son was a mini me when it came to audio up until he passed away.


Very sorry to hear of this...


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## DJJEZ (Apr 15, 2021)

Orlok said:


> Spoiling my teenage son and grooming him to become an audiophile. Haha. He's a really good guitar player (loves metal and electronic) and pianist as well so he can definitely appreciate great sound and has the HD800S I handed down to him. Obviously, he's in awe of the TC. I told him, "Better study hard and get a really good job, boy!"


It's a good life for him. He has your 1266tc to listen to 

I had a Sony mini disc player at that age with included earphones lmao


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## Ciggavelli

Spawn300Z said:


> my son was a mini me when it came to audio up until he passed away.


Sorry to hear that


----------



## JLoud

Orlok said:


> Spoiling my teenage son and grooming him to become an audiophile. Haha. He's a really good guitar player (loves metal and electronic) and pianist as well so he can definitely appreciate great sound and has the HD800S I handed down to him. Obviously, he's in awe of the TC. I told him, "Better study hard and get a really good job, boy!"


My 13 year old daughter is my future audiophile. She is always telling me about new music to try. But she really likes classic rock and 70's and 80's pop. The other day I walked into her room and she was jamming out to AC/DC Back in Black.


----------



## Spawn300Z

Ciggavelli said:


> Sorry to hear that


Thanks


----------



## Orlok

JLoud said:


> My 13 year old daughter is my future audiophile. She is always telling me about new music to try. But she really likes classic rock and 70's and 80's pop. The other day I walked into her room and she was jamming out to AC/DC Back in Black.


Very cool. Somehow kids do find and learn to appreciate the old stuff that we grew up with. My son can play along to the classics and play the solos to 'Hotel California', 'Sweet Child O' Mine', 'Master of Puppets', 'Comfortably Numb' and many other classics note-for-note. I didn't teach him any of that except some basic theory and technique kinds of stuff when he started out. He learned by watching YT lessons and figuring things out by ear. We didn't have these luxuries when we were kids.


----------



## Orlok

DJJEZ said:


> It's a good life for him. He has your 1266tc to listen to
> 
> I had a Sony mini disc player at that age with included earphones lmao


Yes, how many kids get to hear the 1266 TC?

When I was his age, it was the Sony Walkman devices and cassette tapes. I remember being so blown away when I first heard the Walkman as a kid and being able to take that sound anywhere. I think that's why I became a headphone listener. My first "serious" headphone was an AKG K-240 studio monitor. I had to save up from my part-time job at Pizza Hut to finally get it. Man, things have certainly come a long way since then and it makes me appreciate what's available now that much more.


----------



## Stereolab42

JLoud said:


> My 13 year old daughter is my future audiophile. She is always telling me about new music to try. But she really likes classic rock and 70's and 80's pop. The other day I walked into her room and she was jamming out to AC/DC Back in Black.



Interesting. To me it seems like the younger generations have no "musical identity" per-se and they seem to enjoy picking and choosing whatever genres and periods out of the past 70 years they want. Outside of micro-variations of existing genres (dubstep, cloud rap, etc.) nothing really new musically has happened in recent decades.


----------



## OceanRanger

Orlok said:


> Yes, how many kids get to hear the 1266 TC?
> 
> When I was his age, it was the Sony Walkman devices and cassette tapes. I remember being so blown away when I first heard the Walkman as a kid and being able to take that sound anywhere. I think that's why I became a headphone listener. My first "serious" headphone was an AKG K-240 studio monitor. I had to save up from my part-time job at Pizza Hut to finally get it. Man, things have certainly come a long way since then and it makes me appreciate what's available now that much more.


Haha, I felt so cool in the early 80's with a first gen Sony Walkman in 1981. Highway To Hell was the first cassette that I every bought. Led Zeppelin IV was the second. A ground breaking device and awesome music.


----------



## Mh996

So, the banana—> XLR adapter delivered yesterday, and after a short confusion on how the locking banana plugs would be compatible with TToby’s caged speaker outputs, I was able to sit down and spend a good night listening to the TCs. I’ll provide some brief impressions and comparisons between the TToby and TT2’s XLR outputs. I won’t bring TT2’s SE into the comparison, as I don’t listen through the front headphone jack anymore and that comparison has been made plenty of times here. I also have only ever listened to the TCs from a TT2, so I can’t compare to any competing amplifiers. I also don’t believe I write sound impressions well, so take my thoughts with a healthy amount of salt. 

I’m using TT2 as a DAC and preamp in this setup. With RCA outputs and high gain (filter 1, crossfeed set at 1), I find my comfortable listening volume at around -47, compared to -26H on the XLR outputs. This is about 75dB. There is no noise when starting or shutting down TToby with the TCs plugged in, nor is there any background hum during operation.

I have to agree with Orlok’s impression that TToby turns the TCs into a whole new headphone. I could tell that within seconds of putting them on. The first thing I noticed is that the soundstage has grown immensely in every direction. Not just in height, but also in depth. Sounds pop from an infinitely deep background and disappear just as quickly. This depth reminds me very much of my old Utopia, but with a soundstage height to match the likes of an HE1000. Secondary to this, imaging is stepped up to a level I really didn’t think would be possible with headphones. If I can quantify this arbitrarily, I think the staging properties of the TC are improved 30-40% compared to TT2. I now see the “clear as day” improvement that speaker amp users describe. Not to sound cliche, but I can almost feel the absolute control TToby has over the TC drivers. And, like Orlok described,  the stage grows even larger as the volume increases. This does make it easier to justify turning the volume up, which is something to be careful of.

Instrument separation is also improved substantially. As a big electronica listener, I find this especially noticeable with complex music (Max Cooper, Felix Laband, a lot of John Hopkins’ the work), though my limited jazz library also sounds like the individual players are spaced out into a realistic stage. For individual frequency ranges, I find the midrange to be the most improved. Male vocals and guitars are more forward and have a a heavier tone weight to them. You can notice more nuances in how string instruments vibrate. The tonality of the TC is a bit more relaxed and hedonic with the TToby compared to TT2, though I don’t believe there’s a drop in technicalities compared to the XLR outputs.

I never realized that bass could have as huge a soundstage as it seems to with TToby. It slams when it needs to just as much as it does from the TT2, though I think the TToby fills in the subbass a little better than the TT2. Again, the separation of the bass from everything else in the mix is pretty remarkable.

I think TToby is a little cooler in the treble, making for a more relaxed sound that still carries all the details of the TT2. This change in tonality is something I appreciate, though if you particularly enjoy the crisp, sometimes intense treble on the TCs, some of your favorite tracks may sound more subdued with the TToby. Again, I don’t think this is a drop in resolution at all, just TToby’s different tuning. All you want is there.

I think I am now a permanent speaker amp guy. I find the TToby an almost unilateral upgrade to the TT2’s rear XLRs, with the greatest improvements being the soundstage, imaging, and transparency. Again, it really sounds like the TToby has complete control over the driver. On top of that, I find the TToby gives the TCs a more organic timbre without compromising detail retrieval and resolution. In my first couple listening sessions, I can’t find anything to fault. A happy Head-Fi’er I am


----------



## OceanRanger

Mh996 said:


> So, the banana—> XLR adapter delivered yesterday, and after a short confusion on how the locking banana plugs would be compatible with TToby’s caged speaker outputs, I was able to sit down and spend a good night listening to the TCs. I’ll provide some brief impressions and comparisons between the TToby and TT2’s XLR outputs. I won’t bring TT2’s SE into the comparison, as I don’t listen through the front headphone jack anymore and that comparison has been made plenty of times here. I also have only ever listened to the TCs from a TT2, so I can’t compare to any competing amplifiers. I also don’t believe I write sound impressions well, so take my thoughts with a healthy amount of salt.
> 
> I’m using TT2 as a DAC and preamp in this setup. With RCA outputs and high gain (filter 1, crossfeed set at 1), I find my comfortable listening volume at around -47, compared to -26H on the XLR outputs. This is about 75dB. There is no noise when starting or shutting down TToby with the TCs plugged in, nor is there any background hum during operation.
> 
> ...


Haha, alignment between Susvara folks and TC folks on the awesomeness of speaker amps to drive headphones?? Craziness.


----------



## donato

Mh996 said:


> So, the banana—> XLR adapter delivered yesterday, and after a short confusion on how the locking banana plugs would be compatible with TToby’s caged speaker outputs, I was able to sit down and spend a good night listening to the TCs. I’ll provide some brief impressions and comparisons between the TToby and TT2’s XLR outputs. I won’t bring TT2’s SE into the comparison, as I don’t listen through the front headphone jack anymore and that comparison has been made plenty of times here. I also have only ever listened to the TCs from a TT2, so I can’t compare to any competing amplifiers. I also don’t believe I write sound impressions well, so take my thoughts with a healthy amount of salt.
> 
> I’m using TT2 as a DAC and preamp in this setup. With RCA outputs and high gain (filter 1, crossfeed set at 1), I find my comfortable listening volume at around -47, compared to -26H on the XLR outputs. This is about 75dB. There is no noise when starting or shutting down TToby with the TCs plugged in, nor is there any background hum during operation.
> 
> ...



Another speaker amp convert ("one of us...one of us...").

As a reminder to everyone interested in exploring this option, there is also a dedicated thread here on headfi for speaker amps to drive HPs (although no one has posted there in the last month).

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/speaker-amps-for-headphones.649107/


----------



## JLoud

Talking about how we got started into audio: I was the first person in my school to buy a CD player. I believe Def Leppard Hysteria was my first disc. I couldn’t stop talking about how cd’s sounded so much better than tapes. Who would of thought I would still be listening to cd after all these years.


----------



## MatW

JLoud said:


> Talking about how we got started into audio: I was the first person in my school to buy a CD player. I believe Def Leppard Hysteria was my first disc. I couldn’t stop talking about how cd’s sounded so much better than tapes. Who would of thought I would still be listening to cd after all these years.


I think that album was within my first 10 CDs... First two were Lionel Richie... 😊 ... And starship.

My CDs are long gone though..


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## Orlok (Apr 16, 2021)

Mh996 said:


> So, the banana—> XLR adapter delivered yesterday, and after a short confusion on how the locking banana plugs would be compatible with TToby’s caged speaker outputs, I was able to sit down and spend a good night listening to the TCs. I’ll provide some brief impressions and comparisons between the TToby and TT2’s XLR outputs. I won’t bring TT2’s SE into the comparison, as I don’t listen through the front headphone jack anymore and that comparison has been made plenty of times here. I also have only ever listened to the TCs from a TT2, so I can’t compare to any competing amplifiers. I also don’t believe I write sound impressions well, so take my thoughts with a healthy amount of salt.
> 
> I’m using TT2 as a DAC and preamp in this setup. With RCA outputs and high gain (filter 1, crossfeed set at 1), I find my comfortable listening volume at around -47, compared to -26H on the XLR outputs. This is about 75dB. There is no noise when starting or shutting down TToby with the TCs plugged in, nor is there any background hum during operation.
> 
> ...


Very cool and it seems you and I are in full agreement in what the TToby (or a good speaker amp in general) brings to the table to realize the TC's full potential. You do a great job with sound impressions, I think! It seems that the TC sits in a sweet spot of being a great headphone for both "normal" reasonably powerful HP amps as well as speaker amps. It is well known that the TC is substantially easier to drive than the Susvara and HE-6. At the same time, it really doesn't make sense to drive other more efficient HPs with a speaker amp. It's just really cool to know that the TC works so well with both.

It really is the expansion of the soundstage with the TToby that becomes immediately noticeable as you turn up the volume. I've owned the HD800S for 5 years and now own the SR1a so I'm very used to enjoying a very large soundstage and it is definitely an important criteria for me when considering headphones, amps and other components. I have to say, the TC with the TToby produces the largest soundstage I've heard. Honestly, to my years, the HD800S and the SR1a do not compare. Width-wise (left-to-right), they are about the same and maybe the HD800S is still a little wider but, in terms of depth and height, there is just no contest. The TC/TToby combo becomes totally three-dimensional while the other two still sound 2D in comparison. I'm only talking about the soundstage here. The SR1a has something else altogether in imaging and clarity that puts it in a class of its own but, soundstage-wise, the TC/TToby combo is in a league of its own as well.

As you mentioned, the bass is just amazing and totally addicting through this combo and I'm not a bass head at all. In fact, personally, I lean more towards the treble side than the bass side of the tonality spectrum and there is nothing I hate more than bloated, boomy, floppy and muddy bass that clouds up everything else. The bass here is presented here in a way that is huge and punchy but still isolated and firmly locked in its position to support everything else that is going on - which is exactly what bass is supposed to do: be the foundation and pillar of the entire musical and sonic experience. The TC has provided to me a whole new level of appreciation of the bass and perspective on its role as part of the overall musical structure and soundscape.

The remarkable scalability of the TC that I've experienced has me considering all kinds of other possibilities because I still feel that I'm only scratching the surface of what it is capable of. But, for now, I am also utterly content with what I'm hearing and also happy to know that the TC will continue to scale and evolve with whatever direction I want to take in the future.


----------



## Orlok

OceanRanger said:


> Haha, I felt so cool in the early 80's with a first gen Sony Walkman in 1981. Highway To Hell was the first cassette that I every bought. Led Zeppelin IV was the second. A ground breaking device and awesome music.


Yes, it was right around then for me as well. For me, that's right around when I was really getting into Deep Purple, Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, and Yes. Ritchie Blackmore was my first guitar god. Ace Frehley before then doesn't count.


----------



## jlbrach

Stereolab42 said:


> Interesting. To me it seems like the younger generations have no "musical identity" per-se and they seem to enjoy picking and choosing whatever genres and periods out of the past 70 years they want. Outside of micro-variations of existing genres (dubstep, cloud rap, etc.) nothing really new musically has happened in recent decades.


I bought my first tape deck was I was 10 yrs old for 20 dollars and it came with a free cassette tape{chicago II} and I was hooked and have been climbing the ladder ever since...in the other hand my son who loves music and live events listens to his music on spotify on his computer or through ear buds...I tried in vain to get him interested in the audiophile world...he admits,yes it sounds better but he just doesnt care...he also has no conception of albums....


----------



## JLoud

Just sat down to listen to my TC with my new SC cable. So far so good. Have to let it run in for a few days before final judgements.


----------



## ra990

Wow those impressions of the TToby are really tempting me. What's the deal with the active cooling on the amp? Does the fan kick in when driving the headphones and can you hear it?


----------



## Orlok

ra990 said:


> Wow those impressions of the TToby are really tempting me. What's the deal with the active cooling on the amp? Does the fan kick in when driving the headphones and can you hear it?


I have AC Infinity fan on it since I'd have to drive the TToby pretty hard to drive the SR1a. It does get fairly warm for driving the SR1a but not at all for the TC. The volume level for the TC at 80dB would be much lower for the speakers - like background music level in which you can easily have conversations over. The fan in the TToby is pretty quiet too but the AC Infinity fan is at whisper level so I'd rather run that than have the internal fan kick in. For headphones use, you wouldn't need to use the fan at all. You are barely tapping its power potential with headphones.


----------



## Orlok

JLoud said:


> Just sat down to listen to my TC with my new SC cable. So far so good. Have to let it run in for a few days before final judgements.


Looking forward to your impressions. I'm starting to think that the Silver Dragons I have are a little too analytical and cool for the TC and the Chord stack. I'm interested in getting a little more body in the mids and to have the mids brought out forward while smoothening out the highs.


----------



## donato

You might want to consider lower gauge (thicker) silver cable.  Silver Dragon is pretty thin (24awg).  Try something like Norne Silvergarde S4 (19awg).  When I compared the previous Silvergarde version, S3 (20awg), with Silver Dragon and various other cables, I easily preferred the S3 over the Silver Dragon (this was testing with LCD-4).  There are also other cable makers (e.g Lavri) that you might want to also investigate.


----------



## Orlok

donato said:


> You might want to consider lower gauge (thicker) silver cable.  Silver Dragon is pretty thin (24awg).  Try something like Norne Silvergarde S4 (19awg).  When I compared the previous Silvergarde version, S3 (20awg), with Silver Dragon and various other cables, I easily preferred the S3 over the Silver Dragon (this was testing with LCD-4).  There are also other cable makers (e.g Lavri) that you might want to also investigate.


Thanks! I shall certainly investigate.


----------



## Mh996

ra990 said:


> Wow those impressions of the TToby are really tempting me. What's the deal with the active cooling on the amp? Does the fan kick in when driving the headphones and can you hear it?


The fan on my unit kicks in after the amplifier has been on for a few hours. I just measured it at ~43dB with ambient noise. I don’t hear it at all during playback, where I’m sitting about 3ft away. I’m curious why this is a feature, as the amp is remarkably cool at all times. Like only barely above it’s off temperature.


----------



## Spawn300Z

ra990 said:


> Wow those impressions of the TToby are really tempting me. What's the deal with the active cooling on the amp? Does the fan kick in when driving the headphones and can you hear it?



mine are pretty quiet at this time. I really don't notice them when listening to my headphones.


----------



## simorag (Apr 17, 2021)

Orlok said:


> Looking forward to your impressions. I'm starting to think that the Silver Dragons I have are a little too analytical and cool for the TC and the Chord stack. I'm interested in getting a little more body in the mids and to have the mids brought out forward while smoothening out the highs.



Hi, "_providing more body in the mids and to have the mids brought out forward while smoothening out the highs_" should really be the tag line of the Superconductor on the product webpage 

It is actually just what it does, and it makes wonders for the AB-1266, especially when it comes to vocals.

How JPS managed to achieve this without compromising on the transparency and detail retrieval I do not know, but they really nailed it with the SC. The only trade-off with respect to the stock cable (which is actually pretty good on its own respect) is some punchiness, tightness and slam softening.

Even compared to other outstanding cables like the Prion4 (more details here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-14797813) it just balances out the tonality of the AB-1266 in a most satisfyingly way IMO. If one is totally committed to the Abyss sound, I would consider the SC a necessary investment to bring the best out of it ... as a fellow head-fier put it once 'buy it and ask for forgiveness later'


----------



## Orlok (Apr 17, 2021)

simorag said:


> Hi, "_providing more body in the mids and to have the mids brought out forward while smoothening out the highs_" should really be the tag line of the Superconductor on the product webpage
> 
> It is actually just what it does, and it makes wonders for the AB-1266, especially when it comes to vocals.
> 
> ...


Haha. I guess I know what I'm missing. As things stand right now, there's a bit of a "scoop" in the mids or a smooth dip would be a more apt description. It's a fun sound but not the most accurate or balanced. Based on the research I'm doing, it does seem that the SC does this without affecting anything else, which is rather amazing.

When I worked with a great guitar tube amp builder during new product development, I would ask him as I tested a prototype: "I love how the high-mids and the treble sound but can you remove a little of the mid-bass and tighten up the low-mids a bit? It sounds a little too loose down there." And he'd say, "Well, I could... but doing that would make the high-mids and the treble sound thin and harsh." And I'd just say, "Oh... never mind. We don't want to do _that_." 

Obviously, I'm looking at a lot of cables right now and the SC is on the top of the list. Based on your feedback, it seems the SC is the last one standing. I used to have a rule to not spend more than 20% of a headphone/amp's value on a cable but, as they say, rules are made to be broken.


----------



## SuperBurrito

ra990 said:


> Wow those impressions of the TToby are really tempting me. What's the deal with the active cooling on the amp? Does the fan kick in when driving the headphones and can you hear it?


I've had the Ttoby for a few years (speaker use only) and never noticed sound from the fan.


----------



## qboogie

simorag said:


> Hi, "_providing more body in the mids and to have the mids brought out forward while smoothening out the highs_" should really be the tag line of the Superconductor on the product webpage
> 
> It is actually just what it does, and it makes wonders for the AB-1266, especially when it comes to vocals.
> 
> ...


That was me. It also helps to ask for half the forgiveness now and half later for like a birthday or something.


----------



## Orlok

I've been going back and forth between the JPS stock cable and the Moon Audio SD and they are indeed quite different sounding. The JPS is noticeably smoother and more relaxed sounding than the SD, which is a very good thing considering the nature of the 1266 TC. The SD has a slightly wider soundstage, more definition around the edges of the transients and some "sizzle" in the treble. For lack of a better description, the SD has more of an "exciting" sound but, depending on the type of music you are listening to, it can be somewhat in-your-face and can cause ear fatigue with extended loud volume sessions.

The JPS stock sounds more balanced with fuller mids and smoother treble. The lows are still very well defined with plenty of slam, if not quite as clear and transparent as they are presented by the SD. For metal and rock, I definitely prefer this over the SD. I will have to test more with other genres (I'm kinda on a metal trip right now) but, for now, I'm very pleased with what I'm hearing with the JPS. If the JPS SC essentially expands on this tonal character that the stock cable has (which I'm sure it does), then it should definitely end up being my endgame cable for the TC connected to the system I have.

I'm definitely hearing more of a difference than I expected, and I now see how much more of an effect cables have with this kind of gear than in lower-cost gear I've used in the past. Well, that makes sense in that all the different components are also very sensitive to any little change you make in the signal chain. Although I've always been aware that cables make a difference from many years of testing guitar gear, I've also been a skeptic in just how much of a difference they make in a given system. But - yet again - my mind is changing in that I realize I need to focus on this (and the power supplies) to optimize what I can extract from the different components as well as finding the right synergy between them. Man, this is harder than running a business!


----------



## Roasty

Don't know why it took me so long to do this..










Simple twist, and two pieces of velcro to act as a splitter.


----------



## MaggotBrain (Apr 18, 2021)

Simple twist, and two pieces of velcro to act as a splitter.

You’re more sophisticated than me...I used some yarn from my kids arts and crafts bin for my Prion


----------



## Stereolab42

Man, I would encourage everyone who can afford it to own multiple pairs of TOTL headphones. Assuming you do your research and buy ones that complement each other you will be able to appreciate each individual pair more. Now that I have the LCD-4, it has claimed duties for some music that doesn't show best on the Abyss. But what does, is this... right now I'm listening to some of the greatest Viking black metal ever recorded -- Windir's 2003 album called "Likferd". It is crazy, bombastic, and completely over-the-top. On the Abyss, I feel like I'm running into battle with ten thousand drunk Norwegians on a field twenty miles wide. This is _exactly _what I want these headphones to do with this music.


----------



## mammal

So my wife is an ultimate troll, she texted me that my Abyss has arrived (I told her that it's backordered and who knows when will it come). Just to come home and see this mug, she found it online so she ordered it for me, all in her ultimate plan to mess with me again, haha.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 18, 2021)

Stereolab42 said:


> Man, I would encourage everyone who can afford it to own multiple pairs of TOTL headphones. Assuming you do your research and buy ones that complement each other you will be able to appreciate each individual pair more. Now that I have the LCD-4, it has claimed duties for some music that doesn't show best on the Abyss. But what does, is this... right now I'm listening to some of the greatest Viking black metal ever recorded -- Windir's 2003 album called "Likferd". It is crazy, bombastic, and completely over-the-top. On the Abyss, I feel like I'm running into battle with ten thousand drunk Norwegians on a field twenty miles wide. This is _exactly _what I want these headphones to do with this music.


Yes, there can be no single "endgame" or "best" that can do everything equally well. I just don't see how that is even remotely possible. It's just like with guitars. There can be no single guitar (electric or acoustic) that's the best and do everything extremely well for every musical genre, style and sound. I've come to realize the same with headphones and that's why I now have the 1266 TC, the SR1a and the LCD-4 and, eventually, I'm sure I'll get the Susvara to complete the stable. As of now, I'm extremely happy with the three I have although I still need to firm up the amp situation with the SR1a (have a new 425w@4ohm power amp that should arrive in the coming week and, hopefully, that takes care of the low-power issues I have with the TToby). These three couldn't be more different from each other and I know the Susvara will also be very complementary as I've had some quality time with it in the past.

Thanks for the tip on Windir's 'Likferd'. I'm listening to it now through Qobuz and it's really cool. I'm digging it as I've been in the metalhead phase for the past week. Yeah, this is definitely over-the-top. Very well recorded too. As a guitar player, I'm fascinated by this type of guitar playing. I know what's going on but I know I couldn't play it. Haha. It's a style of playing that I have never even tried. Normally, with this type of high-gain distortion sounds, there'd be palm-muting and chunky riffing on the low strings but black metal has this drone-like tremolo-picking that would take a lot of focus and endurance to pull off properly.

Yup, you could definitely run into the battlefield with this music without any concerns about getting your head chopped off! Haha. This sounds great. I'm impressed by the production as well.


----------



## Benny-x

Orlok said:


> Very cool and it seems you and I are in full agreement in what the TToby (or a good speaker amp in general) brings to the table to realize the TC's full potential. You do a great job with sound impressions, I think! It seems that the TC sits in a sweet spot of being a great headphone for both "normal" reasonably powerful HP amps as well as speaker amps. It is well known that the TC is substantially easier to drive than the Susvara and HE-6. At the same time, it really doesn't make sense to drive other more efficient HPs with a speaker amp. It's just really cool to know that the TC works so well with both.
> 
> It really is the expansion of the soundstage with the TToby that becomes immediately noticeable as you turn up the volume. I've owned the HD800S for 5 years and now own the SR1a so I'm very used to enjoying a very large soundstage and it is definitely an important criteria for me when considering headphones, amps and other components. I have to say, the TC with the TToby produces the largest soundstage I've heard. Honestly, to my years, the HD800S and the SR1a do not compare. Width-wise (left-to-right), they are about the same and maybe the HD800S is still a little wider but, in terms of depth and height, there is just no contest. The TC/TToby combo becomes totally three-dimensional while the other two still sound 2D in comparison. I'm only talking about the soundstage here. The SR1a has something else altogether in imaging and clarity that puts it in a class of its own but, soundstage-wise, the TC/TToby combo is in a league of its own as well.
> 
> ...


Has anybody gotten in any time with the TC on the Etude? I think the TToby is interesting, but the Etude is only a bit more money (like 33% more), but built on the company's Tier 1 technology. It just makes me wonder if the Etude would be an even better performer than the TToby, and that's kind of hanging me up from moving ahead. 

Both are not readily available here even buying blind, so I'm trying to get a bit better idea about that beforehand. 

Just what I've read a bit on the TToby, it's got a little more intimate signature than the Etude, a little more mid-centric, and slightly more rolled off highs. Those are all opposites to the TC, which seems like it might become a fantastic pairing if everything lined up. And the feedback so far sounds just like that, so I wonder if the Etude might best that or it might not have the meshing magic?

Thoughts or feedback?


----------



## Benny-x

mammal said:


> So my wife is an ultimate troll, she texted me that my Abyss has arrived (I told her that it's backordered and who knows when will it come). Just to come home and see this mug, she found it online so she ordered it for me, all in her ultimate plan to mess with me again, haha.


Lucky man right there.


----------



## MatW (Apr 18, 2021)

mammal said:


> So my wife is an ultimate troll, she texted me that my Abyss has arrived (I told her that it's backordered and who knows when will it come). Just to come home and see this mug, she found it online so she ordered it for me, all in her ultimate plan to mess with me again, haha.


😂That's brilliant... Also a little cruel...  

EDIT: where can I find that abyss emoji? I don't see it in the headfi options.


----------



## MatW

Stereolab42 said:


> Man, I would encourage everyone who can afford it to own multiple pairs of TOTL headphones. Assuming you do your research and buy ones that complement each other you will be able to appreciate each individual pair more. Now that I have the LCD-4, it has claimed duties for some music that doesn't show best on the Abyss. But what does, is this... right now I'm listening to some of the greatest Viking black metal ever recorded -- Windir's 2003 album called "Likferd". It is crazy, bombastic, and completely over-the-top. On the Abyss, I feel like I'm running into battle with ten thousand drunk Norwegians on a field twenty miles wide. This is _exactly _what I want these headphones to do with this music.


Good for you man, looks like you can take the word "soon" out of your signature.  I'll listen to that album later today.


----------



## Orlok

Benny-x said:


> Has anybody gotten in any time with the TC on the Etude? I think the TToby is interesting, but the Etude is only a bit more money (like 33% more), but built on the company's Tier 1 technology. It just makes me wonder if the Etude would be an even better performer than the TToby, and that's kind of hanging me up from moving ahead.
> 
> Both are not readily available here even buying blind, so I'm trying to get a bit better idea about that beforehand.
> 
> ...


Personally, I wouldn't say 33% more is "a bit more money" at this price point. Haha.   

I'm sure the Etude sounds even better but probably more as a speaker amp with more power and even greater transparency. I do think it'd be somewhat of an overkill to drive headphones (except the SR1a). Well, I guess the TToby is too, but all I can say is that it has really good synergy with the HMS/TT2 combo and it does seem to match up really well with the tonality of the TC as you describe.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 18, 2021)

Actually, with the Etude being $6,500 and the TToby being $3,995, the Etude is 62.5% more expensive. Obviously, I would have loved to get the Etude but, due to the price point, it was not an amp I even considered. At the time I got the TToby, I was only considering it to drive my Buchardt S400 speakers that I bought from a friend who was upgrading to the A500. I felt I was spending too much on a power amp when I didn't expect to listen through speakers that much but it turned out really well to drive the TC.


----------



## Articnoise

Roasty said:


> Don't know why it took me so long to do this..
> 
> 
> 
> Simple twist, and two pieces of velcro to act as a splitter.



...or why JPS hasn't come up with it 😉


----------



## Benny-x

Haha, I only added the *33% thing after I reread it and figured someone was bound to say the price difference was more substantial than "a bit" 😂😂  That's funny. 

The thing that has my attention with the TToby is the feedback that looks more like synergy than just complementing the TToby's capabilities. Chord definitely has some pretty amazing gear across the big 3 of preamps, DACs, and amps. Good for them. 

I'll keep my fingers crossed that someone's given the TCs a run on an Etude. Even better if they're heard the TToby as well.


----------



## zenlisten

mammal said:


> In Switzerland there are shops for 2-channel that are willing to work with you, but for high end headphone gear there is really just one store, they are super helpful, but most gear they do not have in stock (like AB-1266) so no way of even testing it at home.


As far as I know k55.ch has 1266 TC headphones, and you can at least try them in their shop in Zürich


----------



## Solan

mammal said:


> So my wife is an ultimate troll, she texted me that my Abyss has arrived (I told her that it's backordered and who knows when will it come). Just to come home and see this mug, she found it online so she ordered it for me, all in her ultimate plan to mess with me again, haha.


That's still love! <3


----------



## Benny-x

Orlok said:


> Actually, with the Etude being $6,500 and the TToby being $3,995, the Etude is 62.5% more expensive. Obviously, I would have loved to get the Etude but, due to the price point, it was not an amp I even considered. At the time I got the TToby, I was only considering it to drive my Buchardt S400 speakers that I bought from a friend who was upgrading to the A500. I felt I was spending too much on a power amp when I didn't expect to listen through speakers that much but it turned out really well to drive the TC.


Wow, I guess I got that a bit wrong. I thought the TToby went for $3500 and the Etude for $4500. 

Anyway, I'd still say it's fine. The $3k difference is something, but it's not enough to really affect the overall investment in the system. 

My point was around -if- the synergy was better than the TToby, because that's what the TToby+TC sounds like when I see feedback on it. A great amp and a special pairing, not just a $3500 amp.


----------



## mammal

zenlisten said:


> As far as I know k55.ch has 1266 TC headphones, and you can at least try them in their shop in Zürich


The last time I checked with Neal and his team, he said they ordered a couple of units but all of them are already sold to their customers (me being one of them). But he has Formula S ordered too, and all Chord stack ready to audition. When I asked about Powerman, he said he can order it, but first wanted to see what kind of demand will he get for Formula S alone.


----------



## Mh996

Benny-x said:


> Just what I've read a bit on the TToby, it's got a little more intimate signature than the Etude, a little more mid-centric, and slightly more rolled off highs. Those are all opposites to the TC, which seems like it might become a fantastic pairing if everything lined up. And the feedback so far sounds just like that, so I wonder if the Etude might best that or it might not have the meshing magic?





Benny-x said:


> Has anybody gotten in any time with the TC on the Etude? I think the TToby is interesting, but the Etude is only a bit more money (like 33% more), but built on the company's Tier 1 technology. It just makes me wonder if the Etude would be an even better performer than the TToby, and that's kind of hanging me up from moving ahead.
> 
> Both are not readily available here even buying blind, so I'm trying to get a bit better idea about that beforehand.
> 
> ...


I think you bring up a good point about the tonality of the TToby complimenting the TC. I imagine the improvements in staging would be common to most speaker amplifiers, but the TToby also gives the TC a more organic timbre and forward midrange. I would expect that the Etude would have a more neutral sound than TToby with the TCs


----------



## OceanRanger

Recently I sold my Headtrip II. It was a very tough decision.  I am awaiting the arrival of a new Wells Audio amp. Because I only have enough space for one amp, I’ve been using my portable system in the meantime. While the Hugo2+Arya’s are great on the road, I really miss having enough power to drive the TCs.


----------



## JLoud

mammal said:


> So my wife is an ultimate troll, she texted me that my Abyss has arrived (I told her that it's backordered and who knows when will it come). Just to come home and see this mug, she found it online so she ordered it for me, all in her ultimate plan to mess with me again, haha.


I would love to know where she got this. Maybe we could bulk order one for everyone here! 😁


----------



## mammal

JLoud said:


> I would love to know where she got this. Maybe we could bulk order one for everyone here!


It should come mandatory with every Abyss purchase, if you ask me  She told me she bought it from http://abyss-store.com, apparently fulfilled by other company on their behalf.


----------



## JLoud

I never noticed that on the website. Now I have to decorate my office and update my wardrobe.


----------



## mammal

JLoud said:


> I never noticed that on the website.


Notice that it is a different website, not abyss headphones, but store. Apparently it is mentioned on their YouTube channel.


----------



## JLoud

Gotcha.


----------



## Stereolab42

Orlok said:


> Thanks for the tip on Windir's 'Likferd'. I'm listening to it now through Qobuz and it's really cool. I'm digging it as I've been in the metalhead phase for the past week. Yeah, this is definitely over-the-top. Very well recorded too. As a guitar player, I'm fascinated by this type of guitar playing. I know what's going on but I know I couldn't play it. Haha. It's a style of playing that I have never even tried. Normally, with this type of high-gain distortion sounds, there'd be palm-muting and chunky riffing on the low strings but black metal has this drone-like tremolo-picking that would take a lot of focus and endurance to pull off properly.
> 
> Yup, you could definitely run into the battlefield with this music without any concerns about getting your head chopped off! Haha. This sounds great. I'm impressed by the production as well.


All four of their albums are unreal. 1184 is probably my favorite and has the greatest final track of an album ever recorded IMHO. The vocalist died tragically at only 25, but in the most black metal way possible -- he got lost in a blizzard while walking in the forest.


----------



## ahossam

http://open.qobuz.com/album/0016861815707

More great metal album for you guys


----------



## paradoxper

ahossam said:


> http://open.qobuz.com/album/0016861815707
> 
> More great metal album for you guys


Ooh, superbands, huh.

Bloodbath is obligatory.

Special place to Umbra Vitae 


Although for All-Stars, the production values are woeful.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 18, 2021)

So, I've spent a good chunk of the past day going back and forth between the JPS stock and the MA SD and, as usual, I've come to the conclusion that they are just different and sometimes I like one over the other based on what I'm listening to and what kind of mood I'm in. If my ears are feeling fresh in the morning or after a break from listening for some hours, then I like the energy and crispness that the SD has. If my ears are a little tired and it's late at night, I like the smoothness and the warmth that the JPS provides.

I'm coming to see that cables are like different kinds of fine whisky - some are zingy, some are smooth, some in-between, etc. I've got the two cables set up for quick swaps and I find I like both for different things. Eventually, I'm going to set up an audio rack in this spot as I add more amps and I can envision a section at the bottom to store different HP cables to swap on a whim. I never thought I'd collect and "cork-sniff" cables.


----------



## MatW

Roasty said:


> Don't know why it took me so long to do this..
> 
> 
> 
> Simple twist, and two pieces of velcro to act as a splitter.


Excellent! I have one coming in and will be doing the same. Never thought I'd spend big bucks on a cable. You guys are a bad influence...


----------



## DJJEZ

Planning to add the Superconductor later this year as well. Everyone on this forum Is a bad Influence  lmao


----------



## FLTWS

DJJEZ said:


> Planning to add the Superconductor later this year as well. Everyone on this forum Is a bad Influence  lmao


Check their store on "Black Friday" they usually have a sale. That's how I got my F/S and Powerman.


----------



## jlbrach

DJJEZ said:


> Planning to add the Superconductor later this year as well. Everyone on this forum Is a bad Influence  lmao


yes, like crack dealers


----------



## DJJEZ

jlbrach said:


> yes, like crack dealers


Lmao It sure does feel that way lol


----------



## Orlok

DJJEZ said:


> Lmao It sure does feel that way lol


Yeah, this place is absolutely great for getting detailed info and impressions from experienced users but they all have different things that _all_ seem very attractive, so it creates this option anxiety in you. Sometimes it drives you absolutely nuts! Haha. I'm going through that now with just cables and power supplies which I'll focus on for the remainder of the year to optimize what I have before springing for the big enchilada early next year (the tube amp).

I'm going through the TT2 and Mscaler threads and I'm like, "Oh, geez... Where do I start and what am I supposed to go with?" There's the battery option. The OPTO-DX. The Sbooster. Expensive BNC cables. Expensive power conditioners and power cables. And on and on. Can keep you tossing in bed!


----------



## InTune321

Benny-x said:


> Has anybody gotten in any time with the TC on the Etude? I think the TToby is interesting, but the Etude is only a bit more money (like 33% more), but built on the company's Tier 1 technology. It just makes me wonder if the Etude would be an even better performer than the TToby, and that's kind of hanging me up from moving ahead.
> 
> Both are not readily available here even buying blind, so I'm trying to get a bit better idea about that beforehand.
> 
> ...


I am waiting on my 1266’s . But when they arrive I plan on trying them with my Etude. I will post findings as soon as my TC’s arrive (hopefully 3-4 weeks left)


----------



## ra990

InTune321 said:


> I am waiting on my 1266’s . But when they arrive I plan on trying them with my Etude. I will post findings as soon as my TC’s arrive (hopefully 3-4 weeks left)


I have an Etude on the way, so I'll be trying that with the Abyss and Susvara. I didn't find a huge difference between the TT2's balanced outputs and the Pass XA25, so let's see if the Etude impresses me enough to warrant adding it.


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 18, 2021)

My 1266TC has been delayed till May


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> My 1266TC has been delayed till May


Not what I want to hear.  I’m five weeks in and getting impatient!


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> Yeah, this place is absolutely great for getting detailed info and impressions from experienced users but they all have different things that _all_ seem very attractive, so it creates this option anxiety in you. Sometimes it drives you absolutely nuts! Haha. I'm going through that now with just cables and power supplies which I'll focus on for the remainder of the year to optimize what I have before springing for the big enchilada early next year (the tube amp).
> 
> I'm going through the TT2 and Mscaler threads and I'm like, "Oh, geez... Where do I start and what am I supposed to go with?" There's the battery option. The OPTO-DX. The Sbooster. Expensive BNC cables. Expensive power conditioners and power cables. And on and on. Can keep you tossing in bed!


I’d heavily encourage you to try the battery option.  It’s inexpensive and has other uses; I was amazed at the results in filtering out/eliminating RFI When using it with the M-Scaler.  @ra990 suggested this one and I absolutely love it.  

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085PYYX2B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Ciggavelli

I'm very interested in @InTune321 and @ra990 's impressions of the Etude with the TCs and Susvaras.  I've been thinking about adding it too, given all of the positive feedback with the TToby.


----------



## Spawn300Z

The etude will also work well. Has more power then the TToby. But I when with the TToby since the form factor matched my TT2/M-Scaler combo. If I had the Dave would have went with the etude.

Look in the Susvara thread. Bonesy Jonesy has the Etude in his set up with great results also.


----------



## DJJEZ

Gadget67 said:


> Not what I want to hear.  I’m five weeks in and getting impatient!


I'm 4 weeks in


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 18, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> I'm very interested in @InTune321 and @ra990 's impressions of the Etude with the TCs and Susvaras.  I've been thinking about adding it too, given all of the positive feedback with the TToby.


You don't need anything else. U have a WA33 JPS elite


----------



## Ciggavelli

DJJEZ said:


> You don't need anything else. U have a WA33 JPE elite


 True.  

But that audiophile nervosa is kicking in, and it's making me wonder if the TCs and Susvaras could sound even better out of an Etude?


----------



## Spawn300Z

DJJEZ said:


> You don't need anything else. U have a WA33 JPE elite


Understood, that’s why I plan to swing for the Fences and get The Riviera AIC-10


----------



## Mh996

I also think the tonality that TToby gives the TCs is really enjoyable, on top of the improved staging and bass. I’m not sure I’d like a more technicalities-oriented version of that. But I’d love to be wrong . I also prefer the form factor with the TT2, especially since my next big purchase will be the M Scaler


----------



## Gadget67

So...let’s see...if I get the Etude, a DAVE, another M-Scaler, the Chord stand, the SC headphone cable and associated cables and power management, I can REALLY be ready when the TC’s eventually (hopefully) show up....bet the wife will love that!  Or, not...


----------



## littlej0e

Gadget67 said:


> Not what I want to hear.  I’m five weeks in and getting impatient!


I ordered mine Feb 20th, so 8 weeks in and I’m still waiting...


----------



## DJJEZ

littlej0e said:


> I ordered mine Feb 20th, so 8 weeks in and I’m still waiting...


Where did you order from?


----------



## littlej0e (Apr 18, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> Where did you order from?


http://www.thxstereo.com/

Mine will supposedly be delivered by the end of the month. We’ll see. Unfortunately the dealer is basically powerless to do anything about it.

The Abyss vids on YouTube lead me to believe they got a crazy run of orders for 1266’s (they recently bought 2 new multimillion dollar CNC machines to effectively double production). It is what it is I guess.


----------



## Orlok

ra990 said:


> I have an Etude on the way, so I'll be trying that with the Abyss and Susvara. I didn't find a huge difference between the TT2's balanced outputs and the Pass XA25, so let's see if the Etude impresses me enough to warrant adding it.


I'd imagine the Etude should sound awesome and provide another level of transparency as well as power from the TToby. I'm a bit surprised that you didn't notice that much of a difference between the TT2's XLRs and the Pass XA25. Maybe it has to do with the lower power and Class A design...


----------



## Orlok

Gadget67 said:


> I’d heavily encourage you to try the battery option.  It’s inexpensive and has other uses; I was amazed at the results in filtering out/eliminating RFI When using it with the M-Scaler.  @ra990 suggested this one and I absolutely love it.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085PYYX2B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Yes, this is certainly high on my list but it seems it's also possible to combine all of the options! Haha. I'm in no big hurry. First thing is cables and I'm starting out with the JPS SC 4 RCA interconnect from the TT2 to the TToby for the TC and use the current XLR out to another small but high-powered amp to drive the SR1a. Once I get this squared away (assuming it all works out with this amp) then I'll look into addressing the power supply matter for the HMS and TT2.


----------



## Gadget67

littlej0e said:


> http://www.thxstereo.com/
> 
> Mine will supposedly be delivered by the end of the month. We’ll see. Unfortunately the dealer is basically powerless to do anything about it.
> 
> The Abyss vids on YouTube lead me to believe they got a crazy run of orders for 1266’s (they recently bought 2 new multimillion dollar CNC machines and effectively doubled production). It is what it is I guess.


The installation of the new equipment apparently stopped/slowed regular production while they were brought on line.  I’m glad they are really busy and all, but the wait is getting tiresome.  First world problems are the worst...


----------



## littlej0e

Gadget67 said:


> The installation of the new equipment apparently stopped/slowed regular production while they were brought on line.  I’m glad they are really busy and all, but the wait is getting tiresome.  First world problems are the worst...


I couldn’t agree more on all points 😂


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> True.
> 
> But that audiophile nervosa is kicking in, and it's making me wonder if the TCs and Susvaras could sound even better out of an Etude?


Well, the WA33 has a preamp out so you can use both depending on your mood! That's certainly what I'm planning.


----------



## DJJEZ

Gadget67 said:


> The installation of the new equipment apparently stopped/slowed regular production while they were brought on line.  I’m glad they are really busy and all, but the wait is getting tiresome.  First world problems are the worst...


----------



## Spawn300Z

Always loved that movie


----------



## ken6217

Spawn300Z said:


> Understood, that’s why I plan to swing for the Fences and get The Riviera AIC-10


But as mentioned in a previous post the other day, it supposed to sound better off of the speaker taps than the headphone out. You're spending $17K for basically an overpriced speaker amp. Make that a vastly over priced speaker amp,

Btw, go to the For Sale forum. You can pick one up for $9k. It's been up for sale for 2 1/2 months.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 19, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> But as mentioned in a previous post the other day, it supposed to sound better off of the speaker taps than the headphone out. You're spending $17K for basically an overpriced speaker amp. Make that a vastly over priced speaker amp,
> 
> Btw, go to the For Sale forum. You can pick one up for $9k. It's been up for sale for 2 1/2 months.


I dunno. I think the value of a product - whatever it is - is in the eyes (or I suppose the ears in this case) of the beholder. There are many Riviera AIC-10 owners who are very happy with it and it is very highly rated in the audiophile circles. There are $100K+ DACs and speaker systems that cost more than decent houses in Southern California. If some people want these things and can afford them, more power to them. I hope that @Spawn300Z gets the amp that he feels will be for the best for him and that he enjoys it immensely for many years to come.


----------



## Benny-x

Gadget67 said:


> Orlok said:
> 
> 
> > I dunno. I think the value of a product - whatever it is - is in the eyes (or I suppose the ears in this case) of the beholder. There are many Riviera AIC-10 owners who are very happy with it and it is very highly rated in the audiophile circles. There are $100K+ DACs and speaker systems that cost more than decent houses in Southern California. If some people want these things and can afford them, more power to them. I hope that @Spawn300Z gets the amp that he feels will be for the best for him and that he enjoys it immensely for many years to come.


I think what Ken was pointing out was that (a) the AIC-10 is starting to fall off it's pedestal a bit, where people are finding more faults with it, and giving feedback like preferring it off the speaker taps. Which means you may be over paying for the performance, even from a subjective perspective. And (b), reverb if you do want it, you can find it cheaper used. There's one is our FS forum right now, so maybe you could jump at it and net one for substantially less money, this better positioning it's value due to (a). 

Not that I'm a fanboy, but I've seen enough of Ken's kit across the threads to know that he also drops stacks on components he finds subjective value in. So that even sets a better context for his insights above. 

+1 about nabbing that 1/2 price AIC-10 in the Amplifier FS forum.

But from my guess, I just kinda fell a different amp would work better with the TCs...


----------



## Orlok

littlej0e said:


> http://www.thxstereo.com/
> 
> Mine will supposedly be delivered by the end of the month. We’ll see. Unfortunately the dealer is basically powerless to do anything about it.
> 
> The Abyss vids on YouTube lead me to believe they got a crazy run of orders for 1266’s (they recently bought 2 new multimillion dollar CNC machines to effectively double production). It is what it is I guess.


Yeah, our business is kind of experiencing the same thing with high-end electric guitars. We have more than doubled our production over the past year and we are essentially sold out through the remainder of the year. It is kind of weird to think that the pandemic has actually helped create a boom for products like high-end audiophile gear and musical instruments. Besides us, the likes of Fender, Taylor Guitars, Gibson, Sweetwater retailer, and Guitar Center, etc. are doing 30% over before the pandemic started with no signs of letup.


----------



## Orlok

Benny-x said:


> I think what Ken was pointing out was that (a) the AIC-10 is starting to fall off it's pedestal a bit, where people are finding more faults with it, and giving feedback like preferring it off the speaker taps. Which means you may be over paying for the performance, even from a subjective perspective. And (b), reverb if you do want it, you can find it cheaper used. There's one is our FS forum right now, so maybe you could jump at it and net one for substantially less money, this better positioning it's value due to (a).
> 
> Not that I'm a fanboy, but I've seen enough of Ken's kit across the threads to know that he also drops stacks on components he finds subjective value in. So that even sets a better context for his insights above.
> 
> ...


Okay, I understand. I'm very curious about the AIC-10 myself and would love to at least try it some time. Well, I guess I can say that about many things but I do have an affinity for amps (including guitar amps) in particular - more so than DACs and other components. No disrespect intended whatsoever or me trying to stir the pot. Many people have lots of very high-end gear here so I'm just all for people getting what they feel is the best _for them_ without having to explain themselves. And that includes me! Haha. I certainly have quite a list of stuff to get over the next few years.


----------



## JLoud

Well Orlok, I got something for you to put on your list. After saying I could never see myself dropping the coin necessary for the Super Conductor cable I went and bought one. Very happy with it. After a couple days of listening it is definitely an improvement over stock. My one complaint of the TC was the mids sounded a little thin. The SC fixes that problem.


----------



## JLoud

Also, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread the SC seems to loose a little bass quantity compared to stock. But after playing with fit that is fixed. I basically rotated the pads one notch and adjusted slide in a little. This restored the bass while keeping the midrange improvement. The TC now feels more musical, I always felt it could be a little analytical.


----------



## JLoud

I also have the Norne Silvergarde S3. It is more balanced compared to stock, stock feeling V shaped. The SC feels like a combination of the two. If that makes sense. Of course cost to performance ratio is completely out the window at this point, but I think most of us have come to accept that.


----------



## Orlok

JLoud said:


> Well Orlok, I got something for you to put on your list. After saying I could never see myself dropping the coin necessary for the Super Conductor cable I went and bought one. Very happy with it. After a couple days of listening it is definitely an improvement over stock. My one complaint of the TC was the mids sounded a little thin. The SC fixes that problem.


Thanks for the feedback. I actually do have it on my list and it is probably my very next item after I get the SC RCA hooked up from the TT2 to the TToby. Forgot to mention it. After I get the SC for the TC, _then_ it's moving onto the front end to optimize the HMS/TT2. 

This all reminds me of the days when I was putting together my first guitar "Rig of Doom". A 180w custom-built tube guitar head to drive the center two speaker cabinets, a huge rack of state-of-the-art digital effects processors, another tube stereo power amp to drive more speaker cabinets on the side that was "wet" with delay/reverb/echo/chorus effects, and a ton of pedals. Of course, all the cables were TOTL as well. Check out the attached pics. It was really so over-the-top that even my pro artist friends were in awe of it. Yes, this is just one guitar rig and it sounded like god! Haha. So I'm now taking this experience building mega guitar rigs to an audio setup but, just like this guitar rig, it will take time.


----------



## Orlok

JLoud said:


> I also have the Norne Silvergarde S3. It is more balanced compared to stock, stock feeling V shaped. The SC feels like a combination of the two. If that makes sense. Of course cost to performance ratio is completely out the window at this point, but I think most of us have come to accept that.


Very promising. If the stock sounds/feels V-shaped to you, then I guess you'll hate the Silver Dragons, which sound even more scooped than the stock. I couldn't help but notice a thread on the Sound Science forum with people saying that, basically, cables don't and can't sound different. If we claim that two or more cables sound different from each other, we should be able to prove such conclusions with measurements or we are just imagining things. Interesting...


----------



## Benny-x

Orlok said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I actually do have it on my list and it is probably my very next item after I get the SC RCA hooked up from the TT2 to the TToby. Forgot to mention it. After I get the SC for the TC, _then_ it's moving onto the front end to optimize the HMS/TT2.
> 
> This all reminds me of the days when I was putting together my first guitar "Rig of Doom". A 180w custom-built tube guitar head to drive the center two speaker cabinets, a huge rack of state-of-the-art digital effects processors, another tube stereo power amp to drive more speaker cabinets on the side that was "wet" with delay/reverb/echo/chorus effects, and a ton of pedals. Of course, all the cables were TOTL as well. Check out the attached pics. It was really so over-the-top that even my pro artist friends were in awe of it. Yes, this is just one guitar rig and it sounded like god! Haha. So I'm now taking this experience building mega guitar rigs to an audio setup but, just like this guitar rig, it will take time.


Back about the AIC-10 bit, you're totally right and sorry for stepping on your toes about that. I appreciate your kindness in talking about that. I hope you're able to get one and find out it sounds just like you're saying. It slipped my mind for a bit about the comparative and "questing" side of all this. 

I think one amp or brand of amps I want to try like that are the Aries Cerat ones. I've always just sorta thought they were cool and must sound great. 

As for your guitar rig, that's hilarious. I feel like I'm in good company now. I get caught up in that approach a lot too and my brothers have been making fun of me about it my whole life. When I read the part about "pro artist friends" checking out your rig and saying it was over the top even for them, I felt a kindred spirit. Hahaha. I loved it.


----------



## ken6217

Honestly, I’m curious about the AC-10 as well, but I can’t bring myself to spend the kind of money that they are asking for. Don’t get me wrong, my reasoning isn’t because it’s expensive, it’s because it’s not justifiable, except for crazy markup. Maybe part of it has to do with scale, but when you see it’s priced out higher than well regarded speaker amps like  Stereophile Class A amps such as Mark Levinson, Gryphon, Audion Research, Simaudio, Bricasti, Constellation, to name a few, it really puts it into focus that Rivera’s pricing strategy is throw crap on a wall and see what sticks. 

Hell, it’s the same price as dCS Bartok. There is not a scratch my head emoji big enough for that one.


----------



## JLoud

Orlok said:


> Very promising. If the stock sounds/feels V-shaped to you, then I guess you'll hate the Silver Dragons, which sound even more scooped than the stock. I couldn't help but notice a thread on the Sound Science forum with people saying that, basically, cables don't and can't sound different. If we claim that two or more cables sound different from each other, we should be able to prove such conclusions with measurements or we are just imagining things. Interesting...


My thoughts when people say “show me the measurements” is the brain is far more sensitive than any test rig. And I listen with My ears and My brain, Their test rig doesn’t matter. My Schiit Modius tests far better than my WA33, but you can guess which one I think sounds better. To each his own I guess.


----------



## Spawn300Z (Apr 19, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> But as mentioned in a previous post the other day, it supposed to sound better off of the speaker taps than the headphone out. You're spending $17K for basically an overpriced speaker amp. Make that a vastly over priced speaker amp,
> 
> Btw, go to the For Sale forum. You can pick one up for $9k. It's been up for sale for 2 1/2 months.


I understand, but I would like a tube amp to add to my setup. i have a line on one already from my dealer at a great price. The Riviera would end up costing less them the WA-33 Elite. Especially when you consider the cost of tube rolling. So that’s my train of thought. The only other one I think I would be interested in is the Primavea. But the same thing applies.


----------



## OceanRanger

JLoud said:


> My thoughts when people say “show me the measurements” is the brain is far more sensitive than any test rig. And I listen with My ears and My brain, Their test rig doesn’t matter. My Schiit Modius tests far better than my WA33, but you can guess which one I think sounds better. To each his own I guess.


Indeed. Brains are complex. I don’t believe that oscilloscopes can capture all that is involved in the enjoyment of sound equation.


----------



## Stereolab42

Spawn300Z said:


> I understand, but I would like a tube amp to add to my setup. i have a line on one already from my dealer at a great price. The Riviera would end up costing less them the WA-33 Elite. Especially when you consider the cost of tube rolling. So that’s my train of thought. The only other one I think I would be interested in is the Primavea. But the same thing applies.


As I always say... if you're gonna pay that much, get a PURE tube amp, not something with MOSFETs in it. The biggest attraction of the tube amp experience to me is in avoiding the last 60 years of technology and having something that could have been made generations ago. I think the best place for hybrids is at the lower end of the cost scale like with the Schiit Lyr.


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> Very promising. If the stock sounds/feels V-shaped to you, then I guess you'll hate the Silver Dragons, which sound even more scooped than the stock. I couldn't help but notice a thread on the Sound Science forum with people saying that, basically, cables don't and can't sound different. If we claim that two or more cables sound different from each other, we should be able to prove such conclusions with measurements or we are just imagining things. Interesting...


Let me know when the sound science forum comes up with a way to measure what happens after sound enters your ear and gets “translated” by your brain...
https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/how-do-we-hear


----------



## mammal

Gadget67 said:


> Let me know when the sound science forum comes up with a way to measure what happens after sound enters your ear and gets “translated” by your brain...


Wait a second, I thought my hearing is digital


----------



## JLoud

mammal said:


> Wait a second, I thought my hearing is digital


And all bits are the same. So maybe we just need to reduce jitter and we'll be all set.


----------



## littlej0e (Apr 19, 2021)

OceanRanger said:


> Indeed. Brains are complex. I don’t believe that oscilloscopes can capture all that is involved in the enjoyment of sound equation.





JLoud said:


> My thoughts when people say “show me the measurements” is the brain is far more sensitive than any test rig. And I listen with My ears and My brain, Their test rig doesn’t matter. My Schiit Modius tests far better than my WA33, but you can guess which one I think sounds better. To each his own I guess.





Gadget67 said:


> Let me know when the sound science forum comes up with a way to measure what happens after sound enters your ear and gets “translated” by your brain...
> https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/how-do-we-hear



I agree 100%. Truth is, I've been asking myself "W...T...F..." ever since I did my cable demos. I noticed subtle-to-clear differences between some of the cables I tried. Others, not so much. I even had the dealer blindly switch back and fourth using the same track at the same volume and I could _easily _hear differences. Specifically, with warmth, clarity, and brightness. It was plain as day with some. I also noticed most differences were more prevalent and discernable at higher volumes.

The only real scientific measurement I could hang my hat on was EMI, but I'm not sure that is particularly relevant in most instances (surely not enough to cause drastic differences in sound?!?). Then I thought it could be differences in impedance causing passive changes in volume, but I _mostly _ruled that out with a noise dosimeter app on my phone. All of this this pains me greatly as my engineering brain can't come to terms with what I hear. So much so that I scheduled a second cable demo with a different dealer using a different testing methodology on a different system, but largely reached the same results between the "final 3" cable manufacturers I tried. Despite the fact I recently dropped an embarrassing amount of money on cables (after my demos), I would love for all of this to be neatly explained by placebo or confirmation bias. At least then I would have a clear scientific explanation for what I hear instead of "voodoo, hoodoo, fairy dust, and magic."

If you can't tell, these findings still bug the crap out of me...


----------



## Gadget67

littlej0e said:


> I agree wholeheartedly. Truth is, I've been asking myself "W...T...F..." ever since I did my cable demos. I noticed subtle-to-clear differences between some of the cables I tried. Others, not so much. I even had the dealer blindly switch back and fourth using the same track at the same volume and I could _easily _hear differences in warmth, clarity, and brightness. It was plain as day with some. I also noticed most differences were more prevalent and discernable at higher volumes.
> 
> The only real scientific measurement I could hang my hat on was EMI, but I'm not sure that is particularly relevant in most instances (surely not enough to cause drastic differences in sound?!?). Then I thought it could be differences in impedance causing passive changes in volume, but I _mostly _ruled that out with a dosimeter app on my phone.
> 
> ...


I have yet to receive my 1266 headphones, but after watching videos and reading comments about how important positioning of the ear ups is and how important fit is I realize what a huge role my ears and hearing play into what I actually “hear” versus what measurable sounds are being emitted by the headphones.  Cables have always puzzled me because all of them are essentially pure copper or silver wire (or a combination) using similar connectors and manufacturing methods.  My Lazuli reference sounds better to me than other cable made with literally the same materials and I obviously wish I knew why.  Ear cup  materials play a role as does open or closed, beryllium or electrostatic, clamping pressure, etc.  Does one ear hear differently than the other?  Does my brain somehow account for those differences?  Fascinating, as Dr. Spock would say...


----------



## zenlisten

Ever since I got the Abyss AB-1266 TC headphones last Christmas my question was whether my TT2 is enough to drive them. However, in this small country I haven't had an easy chance to try them with a recommended amp (see https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-882#post-16088128). Well I didn't until yesterday when @mammal wrote that our common dealer now carries the Formula S amps. I asked them and they were so nice that they have lended out one to me.






After hooking it up it was immediately clear that this is another level. Now I can finally answer the question: Although the TT2 can drive the AB-1266 TCs fine, a proper amp needs to be added to unlock the full potential of these headphones. It opens up, extends, the bass becomes very powerful, and everything gets its proper "weight". It's like a full upgrade. I am not great at describing the changes but fortunately some people already did it regarding another amp, the TToby:



Orlok said:


> ...After hooking the TC up to the TToby's speaker taps, I nervously turned up the volume from zero _very _slowly to my normal listening level. As I did so, I could not believe what was happening. The soundstage just seemed to keep expanding in every single direction but especially in depth and height. The imaging and the placement of the instruments also improved at the same rate - getting bigger in sound but also more defined in their respective positions. The improvement of the bass frequencies was startling. It seemed to occupy a bigger portion of the soundstage than before but it stayed locked firmly in its position and did not at all interfere with other instruments and frequencies. As my wife noted, it was as if the singer and the all the band members got put in their places in a three-dimensional space. And I wasn't even close to having the volume at my normal listening level. I was already hearing this huge improvement at around 75dB...



And:


Mh996 said:


> ...I have to agree with Orlok’s impression that TToby turns the TCs into a whole new headphone. I could tell that within seconds of putting them on. The first thing I noticed is that the soundstage has grown immensely in every direction. Not just in height, but also in depth. Sounds pop from an infinitely deep background and disappear just as quickly. This depth reminds me very much of my old Utopia, but with a soundstage height to match the likes of an HE1000. Secondary to this, imaging is stepped up to a level I really didn’t think would be possible with headphones. If I can quantify this arbitrarily, I think the staging properties of the TC are improved 30-40% compared to TT2. I now see the “clear as day” improvement that speaker amp users describe. Not to sound cliche, but I can almost feel the absolute control TToby has over the TC drivers. And, like Orlok described,  the stage grows even larger as the volume increases. This does make it easier to justify turning the volume up, which is something to be careful of.
> 
> Instrument separation is also improved substantially. As a big electronica listener, I find this especially noticeable with complex music (Max Cooper, Felix Laband, a lot of John Hopkins’ the work), though my limited jazz library also sounds like the individual players are spaced out into a realistic stage. For individual frequency ranges, I find the midrange to be the most improved. Male vocals and guitars are more forward and have a a heavier tone weight to them. You can notice more nuances in how string instruments vibrate...



Yep, it's definitely worth getting a proper amp for the AB-1266 TCs.

On the flip side some transparency is lost but this is something I can live with. It can be probably mitigated somewhat with adding the Powerman, and upgrading the TT2 to the DAVE.


----------



## ra990

Regarding measurements, these particular headphones will be almost impossible to measure accurately because 
1) you don't want a seal, you want a loose fit 
2) position of ear pads and angle of frame greatly impact frequency response 
3) it's very easy to give too much space, which leads to distortion

I can't wait till those bozos at ASR get a pair of these to measure and the shitstorm that will create! My popcorn is ready and my Abyss are on my head.


----------



## littlej0e (Apr 19, 2021)

Gadget67 said:


> I have yet to receive my 1266 headphones, but after watching videos and reading comments about how important positioning of the ear ups is and how important fit is I realize what a huge role my ears and hearing play into what I actually “hear” versus what measurable sounds are being emitted by the headphones.  Cables have always puzzled me because all of them are essentially pure copper or silver wire (or a combination) using similar connectors and manufacturing methods.  My Lazuli reference sounds better to me than other cable made with literally the same materials and I obviously wish I knew why.  Ear cup  materials play a role as does open or closed, beryllium or electrostatic, clamping pressure, etc.  Does one ear hear differently than the other?  Does my brain somehow account for those differences?  Fascinating, as Dr. Spock would say...





ra990 said:


> Regarding measurements, these particular headphones will be almost impossible to measure accurately because
> 1) you don't want a seal, you want a loose fit
> 2) position of ear pads and angle of frame greatly impact frequency response
> 3) it's very easy to give too much space, which leads to distortion
> ...



Agreed. This topic just stabs the logical portion of my brain with an ice pick and I _hate_ it.

Now that I think of it, the single best argument I can think of for or against audible differences in cables is the same medical condition that drove me to build a ridiculous audio rig in the first place; synesthesia. It is a scientifically documented, yet still somewhat poorly understood medical condition that can cause all sorts of abnormal and unpredictable reactions to a given stimulus, especially audio. Scientifically measuring effects between people with this condition is insanely difficult even with the most advanced MRI studies and medical tech available.

So...the mere existence of synesthesia in human biology means that differences in physiological interpretation of audio between people is not only possible, but has already been scientifically documented as *fact*. Therefore, despite the fact that humans generally hear within the same audible frequency spectrum, people still can and do interpret those frequencies differently. So the old adage that, "some people are just wired differently" really is true and just because you can't hear something doesn't mean someone else can't or that it can be empirically measured. If Jimmy Hendrix's Purple Haze can somehow make John Q. Synesthesiaguy see the color blue or feel like he is falling, is it really that much of a stretch to believe that some people can hear audible differences between cables?


----------



## mammal

zenlisten said:


> our common dealer now carries the Formula S amps. I asked them and they were so nice that they have lended out one to me.


Neel and his team are the best, so happy to read you managed to get your hands on Formula S. Have you decided to purchase it too? I see you have HMS for your HTT2, so wondering, what would you recommend me first, get Formula S or HMS? I plan to get them both, so the question is now in which order, haha. Thanks!


----------



## BPED

Spawn300Z said:


> Always loved that movie





ken6217 said:


> But as mentioned in a previous post the other day, it supposed to sound better off of the speaker taps than the headphone out. You're spending $17K for basically an overpriced speaker amp. Make that a vastly over priced speaker amp,
> 
> Btw, go to the For Sale forum. You can pick one up for $9k. It's been up for sale for 2 1/2 months.


I love my AIC-10 – which I bought second hand- but I also agree that the full price is really steep. I won’t even try to defend the economic rationality of purchasing a Riviera, it would be like asking whether it’s a good investment to buy a Lamborghini (just to stay with Italian crazy high-end products…). Crucially, unless the Lamborghini, the Riviera is not particularly flashy and I think that diminishes a bit its appeal for customers interested in that segment.

But back to music…

For me the strong point of the AIC-10 is that it is a top notch AND versatile amp. In that respect it has few contenders I think (not arguing it’s the best of all, though).

Recently, the o-ring of my TC snapped, and I used my Utopia with Dana Lazuli for a couple of months until I got the new headband. With the TC I use speakers taps (yes, it is a significant step up from High gain) + ECC82 Mullard. I simply switched to Low gain and replaced the warm Mullard for a sharper tube, to get the sound signature I wanted with the Utopia. In this configuration, I slightly prefer the Riviera over the Dave headphones output (which is in itself a match made in heaven).

This amp can really bring out the best from very different headphones. Of course, one can always play with cables or go for a different tubes amp. There are many ways to get there…


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 19, 2021)

Does anyone have an


zenlisten said:


> Ever since I got the Abyss AB-1266 TC headphones last Christmas my question was whether my TT2 is enough to drive them. However, in this small country I haven't had an easy chance to try them with a recommended amp (see https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-882#post-16088128). Well I didn't until yesterday when @mammal wrote that our common dealer now carries the Formula S amps. I asked them and they were so nice that they have lended out one to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


im going down the same exact upgrade path as you very soon. thanks for sharing. i take it your keeping the formula S?


----------



## zenlisten

mammal said:


> Neel and his team are the best, so happy to read you managed to get your hands on Formula S. Have you decided to purchase it too?





DJJEZ said:


> i take it your keeping the formula S?


I am definitely buying a Formula S, and probably a Powerman too.



mammal said:


> I see you have HMS for your HTT2, so wondering, what would you recommend me first, get Formula S or HMS? I plan to get them both, so the question is now in which order, haha. Thanks!


I guess this also depends on the music you listen to but generally I guess a proper amp for these headphones is more important.
For less hungry headphones I would rather avoid adding an amp to preserve the transparency of the Chord stack.


----------



## Ciggavelli

littlej0e said:


> I agree 100%. Truth is, I've been asking myself "W...T...F..." ever since I did my cable demos. I noticed subtle-to-clear differences between some of the cables I tried. Others, not so much. I even had the dealer blindly switch back and fourth using the same track at the same volume and I could _easily _hear differences. Specifically, with warmth, clarity, and brightness. It was plain as day with some. I also noticed most differences were more prevalent and discernable at higher volumes.
> 
> The only real scientific measurement I could hang my hat on was EMI, but I'm not sure that is particularly relevant in most instances (surely not enough to cause drastic differences in sound?!?). Then I thought it could be differences in impedance causing passive changes in volume, but I _mostly _ruled that out with a noise dosimeter app on my phone. All of this this pains me greatly as my engineering brain can't come to terms with what I hear. So much so that I scheduled a second cable demo with a different dealer using a different testing methodology on a different system, but largely reached the same results between the "final 3" cable manufacturers I tried. Despite the fact I recently dropped an embarrassing amount of money on cables (after my demos), I would love for all of this to be neatly explained by placebo or confirmation bias. At least then I would have a clear scientific explanation for what I hear instead of "voodoo, hoodoo, fairy dust, and magic."
> 
> If you can't tell, these findings still bug the crap out of me...


Given your comparisons, I'm very curious as to what cables you've decided upon and why.  What did you end up getting?


----------



## mammal

zenlisten said:


> Although the TT2 can drive the AB-1266 TCs fine, a proper amp needs to be added to unlock the full potential of these headphones.


One more question, were you using HTT2's front SE or rear XLRs to drive AB-1266?


----------



## Stereolab42

For reference, I placed my order direct on 3/31. On 4/3 I got an update email stating a 3-week wait, so this is almost exactly 3 weeks. While I'm glad I'm getting my headphones much faster than expected, I feel for those who ordered through dealers and are waiting much longer. Direct is the way to go. (But hopefully with the new CNC machines everything will keep speeding up.)


----------



## zenlisten

mammal said:


> One more question, were you using HTT2's front SE or rear XLRs to drive AB-1266?


After volume matching them (6dB is the difference) I used the front SE because it's slightly more transparent (which I A/B tested only quickly myself, but I understand it's built like this from a comment by its designer @Rob Watts).


----------



## mammal

zenlisten said:


> the front SE because it's slightly more transparent


Yes, SE is more transparent, but XLR has more power, which I have read owners of AB-1266 appreciate (but you need an adapter).


----------



## DJJEZ

Stereolab42 said:


> For reference, I placed my order direct on 3/31. On 4/3 I got an update email stating a 3-week wait, so this is almost exactly 3 weeks. While I'm glad I'm getting my headphones much faster than expected, I feel for those who ordered through dealers and are waiting much longer. Direct is the way to go. (But hopefully with the new CNC machines everything will keep speeding up.)


----------



## Orlok

Benny-x said:


> Back about the AIC-10 bit, you're totally right and sorry for stepping on your toes about that. I appreciate your kindness in talking about that. I hope you're able to get one and find out it sounds just like you're saying. It slipped my mind for a bit about the comparative and "questing" side of all this.
> 
> I think one amp or brand of amps I want to try like that are the Aries Cerat ones. I've always just sorta thought they were cool and must sound great.
> 
> As for your guitar rig, that's hilarious. I feel like I'm in good company now. I get caught up in that approach a lot too and my brothers have been making fun of me about it my whole life. When I read the part about "pro artist friends" checking out your rig and saying it was over the top even for them, I felt a kindred spirit. Hahaha. I loved it.


Hey, no worries. Sometimes it's hard to read the meaning behind some posts and I totally get that. Yes, so many amps and other gear to try and trade shows can only provide a brief glimpse. One really has to live with a piece of gear for a few weeks to determine if it's a keeper or not - especially once your system is pretty much set up.

Yeah, I can get over-the-top and I've certainly wandered into the right hobby for indulging in that. Haha. That rig I built was so ridiculous. Even pros would see it and say, "This rig... and _you_, my friend... are INSANE!" It was a demo "concept" rig for the shop I owned around 20 years ago but I did consider it mine for a while. I thought, "I only get a chance to build a dream rig like this once in my life so let's spend all this money I have for inventory on this."  

Eventually, I built a whole new slimmer and more modern rig around 5 years ago based on the latest technological developments and this is actually way more versatile and sounds even better - just not as _huge_ sounding! Haha. I sold it to the company I run so I can get started with this audiophile hobby but I can still access and play this rig at work anytime I want and I can even crank it up as loud as my ears can handle so it turned out for the best.


----------



## Orlok

JLoud said:


> My thoughts when people say “show me the measurements” is the brain is far more sensitive than any test rig. And I listen with My ears and My brain, Their test rig doesn’t matter. My Schiit Modius tests far better than my WA33, but you can guess which one I think sounds better. To each his own I guess.


This reminds me of the love-hate relationship that musicians have with audio/sound engineers. During recording in studios and/or soundcheck before a live show, musicians and engineers would often get into disagreements about sound that would sometimes turn into shouting matches. They'll think each other are idiots and they have no idea what they are doing. 

Some bands - when they can afford to - hire their own engineers to take on tour because they don't want to deal with other engineers they'll run into at different venues. Musicians (and listeners as well) hear things a certain way and they want things set up a certain way. And then these engineers with audio science degrees will tell them, "No, no. That's not how you should do it." And musicians will say. "Well, I really don't care what you think. This is how I want to do it." When things get like this, producers and managers with both musician and engineering backgrounds will come in to mediate and try to work things out.

Musicians typically have one thing to say to audio/sound engineers: "You do what you need to do but don't get in my way, okay?"


----------



## Orlok

Gadget67 said:


> Let me know when the sound science forum comes up with a way to measure what happens after sound enters your ear and gets “translated” by your brain...
> https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/how-do-we-hear


Very good info. I should try to understand what's going on inside the ears more as well as the whole auditory perception subject. Bookmarked and saved in my 'Audiophile Archives' folder for future reference and further investigation.


----------



## Roasty (Apr 19, 2021)

The Apollon and Denafrips Athena are a great match. I tried the combo with my speakers (Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2EX) and when the bass line hit, I literally laughed in amazement.

Superb with the Susvara and TC.. The Apollon simply takes away the worry that I'm not sending enough power, and the Athena dials it all in with such a beautiful presentation. Sweet highs, lush natural mids, and a weighty meaty low end.. Wonderful! And yet, with a sensation of such ease and effortlessness!

This pre and power combo definitely rank highly on some of my favourite purchases so far in this hobby.

*edit

I must add, i find myself actually listening at lower than usual volumes. It's odd, that with this combo, I find I don't need to raise up the volume as loud to get better mids or stronger bass. With my other amps, I find I need to turn up the volume before I can get the enjoyable mids/bass, almost like the mids/bass have to play "catch up" with the volume knob.

Also, I find that at lower listening volumes, I get to enjoy the music subtleties more eg imaging, soundstage width and depth, layering, and I get to hear more of the little details. Rather than having the volume up high and getting bombarded with everything in one big dollop.


----------



## zenlisten

mammal said:


> Yes, SE is more transparent, but XLR has more power, which I have read owners of AB-1266 appreciate (but you need an adapter).



Here I tried to collect the relevant comments from the past:


zenlisten said:


> Received the headphones today and they work flawlessly when connected to the XLR outputs of the Chord Hugo TT2 via the NEUTRIK female-to-female joiners.
> I had to order this pair without being able to listen to them beforehand (due to living in a small country + COVID).
> Now it's clear that it's been an excellent decision. They sound truly amazing. Never heard headphones like these before. Very happy.





Rob Watts said:


> My advice on TT2 driving efficient loudspeakers has not changed - it's perfectly capable of doing it, both from a dynamic current POV and thermally when you use the single ended output - but I don't recommend using the XLRs as it will thermally trip into 8 ohms or less. If it doesn't thermally trip then you do not need the extra power, as single ended will do.
> 
> XLRs into 16 ohm loads or greater is fine. But 18v RMS is a lot of voltage to feed into a headphone!
> 
> Whilst on the subject of XLRs, some amplifiers on the XLR inputs short pins 1 and 3 together. This can cause damage to TT2, so take care that XLR inputs are truly balanced.





Rob Watts said:


> On the Abyss though, the HP is 47 ohms and 88dB SPL with 1mW. Using the XLR outputs you can get a max of 7W RMS per ch - hot smoking ears. And the SPL would be a deafening 126 dB. Single ended is 1.8W, and still too much at 120dB SPL. So I would stick with single ended even with the Abyss AB-1266 Phi...





zenlisten said:


> So I just tried the front panel 6.3mm jack with a few tracks, and the 1266 sounds nice. Via the XLRs the same tracks sound amazing. The difference is easy to perceive (unfortunately I am not trained to put it into words). One is alright, but the other is so good, I don't want to stop listening. (Based on this experience it would be probably a good idea to test different amps.)
> 
> EDIT (Jan 21): Turns out the two modes were not volume matched. According to @Rob Watts the difference is 6dB, and indeed if this is kept, the perceived difference in the sound disappears. Looks like there is no need to use the XLR outs.





Rob Watts said:


> So going from single ended to balanced will always result in a small loss in transparency in absolute terms as you have added an extra stage of electronics. In the case of a headphone, it doesn't care if negative voltage or ground - the driver is electrically floating so can't "see" the balanced connection - only the difference in voltage from positive to negative. So if you do not need the extra voltage or power, you will hear a loss in transparency.
> 
> But the case for connecting to power amps is more complex. The benefits of balanced is that it can reduce noise with long cable runs and in noisy environments. Indeed, I have heard some cases where balanced sounded much better than single ended, when going into true balanced inputs, and here it depends upon the amp, and the cabling as to which is best. But most often, single ended is the preferred approach.





Rob Watts said:


> I have posted before that on paper at least single ended is more than capable of driving the Abyss 1266 phi - up to an ear damaging 120dB SPL.
> 
> The most likely explanation is people are not turning down the volume by 6dB when doing the comparisons - listening tests must be volume matched. Of course there are other possibilities such as cabling and connectors affecting the SQ also. Then of course we have placebo which is a very powerful effect too! Then there are the unknown unknowns; the fascinating thing about audio is very, very tiny things do matter, and knowledge is not perfect.
> 
> Happy listening, Rob





zenlisten said:


> Thanks for the insight, @Rob Watts. After testing it again carefully with the help of this number (6dB) that difference I perceived earlier has disappeared. Looks like I was mistaken because of the difference in the volume, just as you write. The SE front panel jack on the TT2 is indeed powerful enough to drive the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC, there is no need to use the XLR outs.
> 
> I regret my mistake, and corrected the earlier post accordingly. I wish people would stop spreading that XLR outs are better for such headphones.


----------



## SuperBurrito (Apr 19, 2021)

zenlisten said:


> Ever since I got the Abyss AB-1266 TC headphones last Christmas my question was whether my TT2 is enough to drive them. However, in this small country I haven't had an easy chance to try them with a recommended amp (see https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-882#post-16088128). Well I didn't until yesterday when @mammal wrote that our common dealer now carries the Formula S amps. I asked them and they were so nice that they have lended out one to me.


I haven't heard the Formula S yet.  But its' Abyss' favorite solid state amp, from what I understand.
Sure seems like a simple design and implementation.


----------



## zenlisten

So I've been up quite late now, switching between direct TT2 and TT2 and Formula S, trying to avoid the volume bias trap (I was reminded by the earlier comments) and I am not sure anymore that I like the Formula S better. Was it a placebo? New gear, high expectations? Tried many different kinds of music and overall I like the transparency of the direct TT2 connection (front SE), and I don't seem to miss anything in bass, sound stage and overall. Formula S is clearly good but the question is: do I really need it after the TT2? Will try again tomorrow.


----------



## Roasty

SuperBurrito said:


> I haven't heard the Formula S yet.  But its' Abyss' favorite solid state amp, from what I understand.
> Sure seems like a simple design and implementation.



I think someone posted another pic of their amp internals in the formula thread, and there was a difference between the two units? Can't remember if there was a reason given.


----------



## littlej0e (Apr 19, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> Given your comparisons, I'm very curious as to what cables you've decided upon and why.  What did you end up getting?


You will likely be one the few to understand most of this, but here goes...

AudioQuest Fire XLR Interconnects - _crystal _clear, highly detailed, and fantastic tonal balance. This is the only cable I tried that gave me all three. Literally nothing else came even remotely close.
AudioQuest Firebird Power cables - Excellent tonal balance. It has less detail than a few others I tried (namely the Danacable Nirvana - just...wow), but I chose tonal balance over sheer detail and clarity for the reasons outlined below. The Snake River Audio Cottonmouth Signature was a very close second. Much better clarity than the Firebird and better tonal balance than the Nirvana, but a little high-leaning for my liking. The cottonmouth might actually be the best choice on my warm-leaning system. We shall see when my WA 33 EE JPS arrives.
Final Audio Callisto USB. - Unexplainable awesomesauce. I tried like 15 different USB cables and _maybe_ heard a _very slight_ difference on like 2 or 3 of them. I was pretty sure USB cables weren't going to be worth upgrading, then I tried the FAC. It made a jaw-dropping difference in the rig I was listening on. It just lit everything up like flipping a light switch in a dark room. That's the best way I can explain it. I haven't a clue why or how this happened, but my eyes instantly widened and I shouted at the dealer over the music, "yeah...I'll take this one!" I hope it has the same effect on my personal system.
My only regret is I didn't get to try any JPS cables as I couldn't find a local dealer that carried them.

FYI, I've noticed I get maximum effects from the following (In order of greatest effect)

Tracks with a lot of varied and deep 3D imaging, especially those with "trance-y" vocals and deeper tones do bizarre things to my mind and body (see trippin' _*BALLZ*_*)*. Sometimes the music triggers visual scenes in my mind that I am physically transported to. One track in particular, "October" from Feverkin transports me to a forest with a brunette woman without a face wearing an elegant white flowing robe. I walk a kerosene lamp-lit path with her holding hands throughout the song until I hand her coins to pay my way across a long wooden bridge. The song eventually gets too "busy" and I snap out of it, but I still feel the powdery dirt and occasional tiny pebble on my feet during the walk along the path and smell the the grass and pine in the air. _*Holy guaca-friggin-mole*_...
Highly detailed and balanced tones. Grand pianos, clean/tight impactful bass, and bass-rich vocal harmonies work especially well and make me feel I'm floating in space or "chasing the fireflies" (I figured you would know what I mean by this). But anything too high, trebly, or bass-heavy cause my ears and mind to focus and snaps me out of it almost immediately. I discovered tonal balance is key to concentration, immersion, and subsequent effect.
Strongly delivered vocals with excellent pitch. Makes me feel like I'm physically riding on sound, sometimes falling out of my chair due to due the way it can mess with my equilibrium. Other times it feels like I'm getting pulled abruptly in reverse away from my chair and outside of my house. Some live performances have also made me feel like I was "falling around the room" and I could actually feel the heat off of the candles burning in the catholic church cathedral in which the performance was being played.
Very well recorded and mastered music. Discovering this single-handedly ruined 95% of my previous musical library and tastes. Now, I find myself chasing music for the effects instead of what I used to enjoy listening to. In other words, my synesthesia brain just got a whiff of musical excellence and now demands nothing less. Clearly, there is no going back.

These are most of the places the SR1a + HS1b + Holo May KTE have taken me thus far. God help me when my TCs and WA33 EE JPS arrive. Also, the Holo May KTE was an enormous upgrade over the RME ADI-2. Infinitely more warmth, detail, and soundstage. It matches incredibly well with the SR1as + HS1b. Helps round off the sharpness/peaks and makes things sound like a perfect bell skipping across a clear lake.

What a long, strange trip all of this is...


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 19, 2021)

zenlisten said:


> So I've been up quite late now, switching between direct TT2 and TT2 and Formula S, trying to avoid the volume bias trap (I was reminded by the earlier comments) and I am not sure anymore that I like the Formula S better. Was it a placebo? New gear, high expectations? Tried many different kinds of music and overall I like the transparency of the direct TT2 connection (front SE), and I don't seem to miss anything in bass, sound stage and overall. Formula S is clearly good but the question is: do I really need it after the TT2? Will try again tomorrow.


Alot of people say the powerman makes a pretty big difference so you should probably try it with that first before making a final judgement. Have you tried the TT2 with rear XLR cable as well?


----------



## ra990 (Apr 19, 2021)

zenlisten said:


> So I've been up quite late now, switching between direct TT2 and TT2 and Formula S, trying to avoid the volume bias trap (I was reminded by the earlier comments) and I am not sure anymore that I like the Formula S better. Was it a placebo? New gear, high expectations? Tried many different kinds of music and overall I like the transparency of the direct TT2 connection (front SE), and I don't seem to miss anything in bass, sound stage and overall. Formula S is clearly good but the question is: do I really need it after the TT2? Will try again tomorrow.


It's good you did that. It is very easy to be blown away by new gear, our brain plays tricks on us. My first impression with the Pass Labs XA25 was WOW, then after a week I switched back to the TT2's XLR outs and realized most of it was in my head because it sounded great and I didn't miss the XA25. You have to switch back after the honeymoon period to really determine objectively if the new gear adds significant changes that you need/want.

The TT2's XLR outs deliver ~7watts to the Abyss, that's no joke. Adding another amp and hearing all kinds of wonderful things is fine, but you're hearing the amp's character, and introducing color (tasteful distortion) into the path. The TT2 has more than enough power for the Abyss (and I know power isn't everything, that's my point).


----------



## SuperBurrito

JLoud said:


> Also, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread the SC seems to loose a little bass quantity compared to stock. But after playing with fit that is fixed. I basically rotated the pads one notch and adjusted slide in a little. This restored the bass while keeping the midrange improvement. The TC now feels more musical, I always felt it could be a little analytical.


Just curious, which way did you rotate the pads?  What o'clock are the seams on the pads at right now?


----------



## JLoud

I will check when I get home. But I believe 3 and 9.


----------



## ctop

littlej0e said:


> You will likely be one the few to understand most of this, but here goes...
> 
> AudioQuest Fire XLR Interconnects - _crystal _clear, highly detailed, and fantastic tonal balance. This is the only cable I tried that gave me all three. Literally nothing else came even remotely close.
> AudioQuest Firebird Power cables - Excellent tonal balance. It has less detail than a few others I tried (namely the Danacable Nirvana - just...wow), but I chose tonal balance over sheer detail and clarity for the reasons outlined below. The Snake River Audio Cottonmouth Signature was a very close second. Much better clarity than the Firebird and better tonal balance than the Nirvana, but a little high-leaning for my liking. The cottonmouth might actually be the best choice on my warm-leaning system. We shall see when my WA 33 EE JPS arrives.
> ...


+1 for the Final Touch Callisto

I'm a big believer of cables...interconnects, speaker cables and power cords...in fact, I have the Superconductor cable already even though I'm still waiting for the 1266TC...but not so much with usb until I tried the Callisto after numerous reviews and recommendations.

I share your observations also with the Holo Audio May when I upgraded from RME ADI-2.


----------



## DJJEZ

littlej0e said:


> You will likely be one the few to understand most of this, but here goes...
> 
> AudioQuest Fire XLR Interconnects - _crystal _clear, highly detailed, and fantastic tonal balance. This is the only cable I tried that gave me all three. Literally nothing else came even remotely close.
> AudioQuest Firebird Power cables - Excellent tonal balance. It has less detail than a few others I tried (namely the Danacable Nirvana - just...wow), but I chose tonal balance over sheer detail and clarity for the reasons outlined below. The Snake River Audio Cottonmouth Signature was a very close second. Much better clarity than the Firebird and better tonal balance than the Nirvana, but a little high-leaning for my liking. The cottonmouth might actually be the best choice on my warm-leaning system. We shall see when my WA 33 EE JPS arrives.
> ...


I'm also looking at the holo may KTE. Heard amazing things. Wondering how it compares to a DAVE


----------



## Slim1970

SuperBurrito said:


> I haven't heard the Formula S yet.  But its' Abyss' favorite solid state amp, from what I understand.
> Sure seems like a simple design and implementation.


That's an older model. The internals have been updated


----------



## Slim1970

ra990 said:


> It's good you did that. It is very easy to be blown away by new gear, our brain plays tricks on us. My first impression with the Pass Labs XA25 was WOW, then after a week I switched back to the TT2's XLR outs and realized most of it was in my head because it sounded great and I didn't miss the XA25. You have to switch back after the honeymoon period to really determine objectively if the new gear adds significant changes that you need/want.
> 
> The TT2's XLR outs deliver ~7watts to the Abyss, that's no joke. Adding another amp and hearing all kinds of wonderful things is fine, but you're hearing the amp's character, and introducing color (tasteful distortion) into the path. The TT2 has more than enough power for the Abyss (and I know power isn't everything, that's my point).


Agreed, the TT2's XLR outputs are really, really good. I had to be honest with myself and admit that they are just as good or better than the majority of amps I've owned.


----------



## littlej0e (Apr 20, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> I'm also looking at the holo may KTE. Heard amazing things. Wondering how it compares to a DAVE


I wish I could help more but I can only compare it directly with the RME ADI-2 on my rig and indirectly with the Rockna and Chord Dave on Susvaras and TCs at the dealers.

The Holo May KTE straight up destroys the RME in pretty much every way except for the digital EQ functionality on the RME. Given the difference in price, it better. Probably not a fair comparison though. The May is just _so_ _smooth_. It’s like a fine whiskey dipped in butter wrapped in silk. So much so that I caught myself turning up the volume in the beginning because I mistook it’s smoothness for quietness. Very analog sounding DAC. Probably best to pair it with a SS amp or something highly detailed and revealing like the SR1a + HSA1b. The May KTE is the Barry White of DACs - full pimp, all the time.

The Chord Dave sounded a bit more detailed, vibrant, and sharp to my ear. I remember it having a smaller soundstage and sounding more “inside a box” compared to the May, but I can’t say for sure considering I tried it with different headphones on a different rig. Very analytically precise and digital sounding DAC. Probably pairs best with a warmer tube amp like the WA33. The Chord Dave is the Freddie Mercury of DACs - astonishingly accurate, incredible presence, and always the life of the party.

The Rockna fell in between the May and the Dave, but leaned more towards the Dave. Pretty incredible sounding DAC and probably the best sounding overall. I think it would synergize quite well with both warm tube and analytical SS amps. But given it was double the cost of the Dave and quadruple the May (and because I was after the smoothest, most tonally balanced sound I could get), I went with the May. Rockna is a very, very, good sounding DAC falling somewhere between an analog and digital sound. Quite extraordinary. The Rockna is the Whitney Houston of DACs - knock your friggin’ socks off with raw performance, but also shockingly versatile with a little bit of swagger.

Hope this helps...


----------



## vonBaron

@littlej0e did you hear Sonnet Morpheus?


----------



## littlej0e

vonBaron said:


> @littlej0e did you hear Sonnet Morpheus?


Unfortunately I haven’t. Interested in hearing your opinion though. Any idea how it would compare to the Dave for @DJJEZ, the May KTE, or the RockNA?


----------



## vonBaron

Never heard any of these, maybe someday i will loan Rockna Wavelight.


----------



## mammal

Roasty said:


> I think someone posted another pic of their amp internals in the formula thread, and there was a difference between the two units?


Pics are here


----------



## OceanRanger

littlej0e said:


> I wish I could help more but I can only compare it directly with the RME ADI-2 on my rig and indirectly with the RockNA and Chord Dave on Susvaras and TCs at the dealers.
> 
> The Holo May KTE straight up destroys the RME in pretty much every way except for the digital EQ functionality on the RME. Given the difference in price, it better. Probably not a fair comparison though. The May is just _so_ _smooth_. It’s like a fine whiskey wrapped in butter dipped in silk. So much so that I caught myself turning up the volume in the beginning because I mistook it’s smoothness for quietness. Very analog sounding DAC. Probably best to pair it with a SS amp or something highly detailed and revealing like the SR1a + HSA1b. The May KTE is the Barry White of DACs - full pimp, all the time
> 
> ...


Ok, the DAC / artist similes are simply awesome. Thanks for this post!!


----------



## mammal

zenlisten said:


> Here I tried to collect the relevant comments from the past:


Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time and going the extra mile, collecting all the information from your personal listening sessions and Rob's recommendations. It was nice to read how you had to volume level match first and then there was no perceivable difference anymore (else than lack of transparency). I wonder if others who hear XLR to be better than SE, are hearing it because of this 6db volume difference. I will for sure test it myself when my AB-1266 arrive, but if I can have it single ended, that's what I will prefer too (I hate adapters).


----------



## zenlisten

DJJEZ said:


> Have you tried the TT2 with rear XLR cable as well?


Yes, see Post #15,336 above


----------



## simorag (Apr 20, 2021)

*Re: Amp pairing for the AB-1266 - my journey*

I started my journey in search for the 'ultimate' amp for the Abyss more than 2 years ago when I had the Formula S / Powerman, as at the time and I was not completely happy, and I kept going back and forth from it to DAVE direct over and over.

I had the chance of listening to the AB-1266 back then with an Ayre VX-R twenty (200Wpch, 30kEuro), which I plugged into hesitantly for obvious reasons, but it was a brief yet eye opening experience of how much I could improve from where I stood.

Since then, I decided that going the speaker amp way was my plan.

Apart from the sound quality revelation from the financially unachievable Ayre, this was because I also wanted to be able of driving my speakers every now and then, and because of many other reasons:

- _much _more options available
- easier to audition in shop, at friend's homes, at my home
- typically better built and designed, especially going through the most well reputed brands (Pass, Luxman, Accuphase, Burmester, NAGRA, ...)
- typically better value for money due to economy of scale and a more competitive market
- vast offering in the 2nd hand market
- better resale value

My objective with the AB-1266 and the DAVE was to find an amp that was able to preserve as much as possible the DAVE transparency while helping with the shortcomings of the Abyss sound signature - to my taste - i.e. some thinness in the mids and some glare/haze in the lower treble and in the sibilance region. So it was mostly a matter of tonality synergy rather than looking for the raw power headroom some speaker amp can provide.

During a very enjoyable quest lasting more than one year, I was able to find very good matches at several increasing price points, and in all cases I felt that the pairing was an improvement with respect to the XI Audio combo, so feeling ressured I was on the right path.
Some examples at increasing price are the Sugden A21 Signature SE, Pass XA-25, Leben CS600X, Luxman 590AX-II.

As I kept moving up into high-end (my budget was something around 10k) I came across some very compelling combinations such the Air Tight ATM-300R (300B amp), NAGRA Classic AMP, Burmester 032.





That's when the Riviera AIC-10 crossed my way. It was out of my budget at list price but having the chance of a home audition I could not resist and went ahead. It was love at first hearing and as I rolled the tube and tried the Mullard everything clicked into place and I thought; "that's just the sound I was searching for". I tried to bargain but I could not reach an agreement on the price of a new item so I had to pass, and kept searching.

I tried many other amps, some I did not like (e.g. Krell 300i, DarTZeel LHC-208, for opposite reasons), others that left me lukewarm (Simaudio Moon 600i, Chord Etude, Octave V80SE, Viva Egoista 845), some I liked very much (Ayon Audio Spitfire III) being the other real revelation the Viva Audio Solista, which again was outside my budget - and honestly I preferred not to mess with big tubes for several (non-sonic) reasons.




Although the aural memory of the AIC-10 was hauting me, I was very close to pull the trigger on Luxman 590AX-II which I still believe - especially when bought used - is possibly the best value for money and a very synergistic pairing with the Abyss (again for the type of sound I tend to like), when an ex-demo AIC-10 popped out and ... well I guess you know how it ended up 




Just wanted to share my path ...


----------



## Benny-x

littlej0e said:


> I wish I could help more but I can only compare it directly with the RME ADI-2 on my rig and indirectly with the RockNA and Chord Dave on Susvaras and TCs at the dealers.
> 
> The Holo May KTE straight up destroys the RME in pretty much every way except for the digital EQ functionality on the RME. Given the difference in price, it better. Probably not a fair comparison though. The May is just _so_ _smooth_. It’s like a fine whiskey wrapped in butter dipped in silk. So much so that I caught myself turning up the volume in the beginning because I mistook it’s smoothness for quietness. Very analog sounding DAC. Probably best to pair it with a SS amp or something highly detailed and revealing like the SR1a + HSA1b. The May KTE is the Barry White of DACs - full pimp, all the time
> 
> ...


Whitney Houston = Rockna - Wavedream Signature Balanced? 

I only ask because Rockna has a couple DACs now, and the top of the line Wavedream has like 4/6 versions. 

I love your post.


----------



## zenlisten

I really suck at testing audio components.

(And here I’m only interested in the human/psychological side, but I realize it’s also a challenge technically, for example, it takes about 15–30 seconds to switch between the TT2-only and the TT2 + Formula S setup.)

Some obvious mistakes I tend to make:

I hear something *I like *so I assume it’s because of that specific component I’m currently testing. – In reality many times changing that component won’t change that specific issue because it’s on the recording/mastering, or an issue in a third component. So I incorrectly associate these good qualities with a specific component.
I hear something *I don’t like* so I assume it’s because of that specific component… Same as above. But it’s even worse because in my mind I put a lot of blame on a specific component, making a scapegoat out of it! If only I would replace this component, everything would be better!
I hear *something new* and immediately identify it as an improvement. – In reality it may be an improvement but it can also be a degradation or just a neutral change.
If the change is *subtle* then it is hopeless for me to realize it in short term tests. My mind immediately adjusts to whatever I hear, especially if it's approximately as good as what I heard before. It’s hard to compare the memory and the current experience.
It’s easy to recognize the effect the music makes on me (synesthesia? even though it’s not specific colors for me but rather experience) but it’s very *hard to analyze* and understand why is that, and what triggers the joy of beauty. Other people can easily discuss specific qualities of audio. Why do I suck at it?
What goes well:

Enjoying music.   
Getting used to a specific sound over a long time, then changing something and recognizing it. (For example once I had to send the M Scaler to the service, and non-electronic instruments immediately started to sound “too digital”.)
How can I improve myself? Are there good guides out there? Tried to find something useful but so far nothing really relevant.


----------



## SuperBurrito

Well, my TCs finally arrived after 11 weeks of waiting
Here are some quick impressions:

- Every bit as good as I hoped
- On my system (Rossini DAC / Luxman HP amp) they are a clear step up from Utopia.
- The Utopias are extremely transparent, but the Abyss even more so. Hard to believe Utopia was the limiting factor in my setup, but after upgrading my DAC and HP amp, it's true.  I'll probably keep the Utopias for watching movies, etc. 
- Very fast and tight.  The sound just comes at light speed.
- Tons of detail
- Bass is powerful and controlled but not exaggerated
- Treble is excellent, sparkly but not too hot
- Midrange needs more beef (seems this can be fixed with the SC cable)
- Build quality is awesome
- Way more comfortable than expected
- Wife says they look totally ridiculous


----------



## mammal

zenlisten said:


> How can I improve myself? Are there good guides out there? Tried to find something useful but so far nothing really relevant.


I struggle with the same, when watching video reviews of headphones/dacs/amps I try to pay attention to words used when they describe what they hear in a song passage, but I am still afraid I am just parroting them without really understanding things. Would appreciate if others could link resources they found useful.


----------



## JLoud

Feedback on fleshing out the mids on the TC: I just picked up a SC cable and it did indeed fill out the midrange. I was doubtful it could be worth the price but I am happy with it. So I guess it was worth it. The SC brought up the mids at the cost of a slight reduction in bass. However I was able to adjust fit to bring the bass back up to the level I prefer.
Now the Abyss no longer feels a little thin or analytical.


----------



## JLoud

mammal said:


> I struggle with the same, when watching video reviews of headphones/dacs/amps I try to pay attention to words used when they describe what they hear in a song passage, but I am still afraid I am just parroting them without really understanding things. Would appreciate if others could link resources they found useful.


What I have found that works for me is to compare a headphone to other headphones. For instance compare soundstage between two cans. Or treble response etc. 

That way when someone reads it the have a baseline. After all everyone hears different. So if they have heard a particular headphone and you compare it to something else they know what you are talking about.


----------



## OceanRanger

JLoud said:


> Feedback on fleshing out the mids on the TC: I just picked up a SC cable and it did indeed fill out the midrange. I was doubtful it could be worth the price but I am happy with it. So I guess it was worth it. The SC brought up the mids at the cost of a slight reduction in bass. However I was able to adjust fit to bring the bass back up to the level I prefer.
> Now the Abyss no longer feels a little thin or analytical.


I too wanted something that was a bit more full in the mid range. I had been thinking about buying a pair of Susvaras, instead I bought the SC. I am super happy with the TCs + SC. The price is certainly steep for a cable, but at least I’ve put off buying a $6k pair of cans.


----------



## JLoud

I like how you said “put off”. Not avoided. I guess we all have the same affliction. 😁


----------



## OceanRanger

JLoud said:


> I like how you said “put off”. Not avoided. I guess we all have the same affliction. 😁


Haha, true. But since the Susvaras are even harder to drive than TCs, there is a whole slippery slope on the amp side of the equation. That said, who knows what the future will bring.


----------



## Ciggavelli

littlej0e said:


> You will likely be one the few to understand most of this, but here goes...
> 
> AudioQuest Fire XLR Interconnects - _crystal _clear, highly detailed, and fantastic tonal balance. This is the only cable I tried that gave me all three. Literally nothing else came even remotely close.
> AudioQuest Firebird Power cables - Excellent tonal balance. It has less detail than a few others I tried (namely the Danacable Nirvana - just...wow), but I chose tonal balance over sheer detail and clarity for the reasons outlined below. The Snake River Audio Cottonmouth Signature was a very close second. Much better clarity than the Firebird and better tonal balance than the Nirvana, but a little high-leaning for my liking. The cottonmouth might actually be the best choice on my warm-leaning system. We shall see when my WA 33 EE JPS arrives.
> ...


Thanks for that detailed reply 

I haven't heard the Firebird cables before, but you have me intrigued.  Snake River has been on my radar, and I've heard similar feedback with the Final Audio Callisto USB.

Also, everybody seems to love the Holo May KTE.  I've been researching it recently, and I've started to get pretty interested in it.  I'm still looking to update my current dac (mDAVE), and I was focusing in on the DCS Rossini, Mola Mola Tambaqui, or Sean Jacobs power for the DAVE.  I'm curious to hear what you think of the Holo May KTE with the WA33 EE JPS, given we have similar hardware in that regard.


----------



## mammal

Ciggavelli said:


> DCS Rossini, Mola Mola Tambaqui, or Sean Jacobs power for the DAVE


I sometimes wish Head-Fi would have a paywall, or a balance check so that I am not shown posts like these, as my wallet gets abused each time and now is scared hiding in the corner, haha.


----------



## Gavin C4

SuperBurrito said:


> Well, my TCs finally arrived after 11 weeks of waiting
> Here are some quick impressions:
> 
> - Every bit as good as I hoped
> ...



Using the exact same setup right here, and basically the exact same impression.


----------



## donato

simorag said:


> *Re: Amp pairing for the AB-1266 - my journey*
> 
> I started my journey in search for the 'ultimate' amp for the Abyss more than 2 years ago when I had the Formula S / Powerman, as at the time and I was not completely happy, and I kept going back and forth from it to DAVE direct over and over.
> 
> ...



That is an amazing journey.  Thank you for detailing it.  It's great that you've found satisfaction with the equipment you've found for your personal tastes.  It's always a tricky and personal thing at this level.  We always have to interpolate or extrapolate and try to map others experience to our own experience and personal preferences, but it's still very helpful to hear from someone who has had such extensive experience.


----------



## jlbrach

JLoud said:


> I like how you said “put off”. Not avoided. I guess we all have the same affliction. 😁


we all do....somebody ought to start a nationwide audiophiles anonymous ....perhaps 6 week stays for those afflicted


----------



## zenlisten

JLoud said:


> What I have found that works for me is to compare a headphone to other headphones. For instance compare soundstage between two cans. Or treble response etc.
> 
> That way when someone reads it the have a baseline. After all everyone hears different. So if they have heard a particular headphone and you compare it to something else they know what you are talking about.



Yes, comparing headphones is relatively easy, very good point. I have the Sony MDR-Z1Rs for example and it's a huge contrast compared with the Abyss. However, comparing interconnect cables? I'm already going crazy comparing direct TT2 with TT2 + Formula S which should be a walk in the park.


----------



## donato

zenlisten said:


> I really suck at testing audio components.
> 
> (And here I’m only interested in the human/psychological side, but I realize it’s also a challenge technically, for example, it takes about 15–30 seconds to switch between the TT2-only and the TT2 + Formula S setup.)
> 
> ...


I can certainly sympathize and feel much the same at times.  I actually finding comparing gear pretty tedious and would prefer just to listen to music rather than gear, but it does serve it's purpose.  A few thoughts:

it's not always possible to do quick A/B as you've found (try that with tubes...not gonna happen).  So keep a fairly consistent set of music that you use to evaluate.  Some qualities are better determined over more extended listening anyway rather than quick switches back and forth
Listen for specific qualities you want to evaluate (timbre, soundstaging, vocals, imaging, detail, bass, treble, PRaT, etc.).  It helps if you have specific tracks or section of tracks to do specific evaluations
Try to be self aware to know what's important to you.  I can sometimes get enamored by a certain aspect of performance, but it's not necessarily what really makes me happy/enjoy things.
Ideally, I would take notes if I were more serious about things, but I'm not so I don't
Even after you break down all of the individual components, it's still sometimes the gestalt of it.  If your toes are tapping (or not), that also says something.
Be aware of your own mood...are you tired, hungry, awake, alert?  That can also change perceptions.  Most things sound better after I've had a drink, lol.
Anyway, those are some of my thoughts on how I try to go about it if I'm very focused on evaluating the gear (again, which I don't really enjoy doing).  I'm also open to thoughts that anyone else has.


----------



## littlej0e

Benny-x said:


> Whitney Houston = Rockna - Wavedream Signature Balanced?
> 
> I only ask because Rockna has a couple DACs now, and the top of the line Wavedream has like 4/6 versions.
> 
> I love your post.



Thanks! 

I'm honestly not sure. It was the Rockna Wavedream, but I don't know what specific version or edition it was. I'll reach out to the dealer and find out.


----------



## Benny-x

littlej0e said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I'm honestly not sure. It was the Rockna Wavedream, but I don't know what specific version or edition it was. I'll reach out to the dealer and find out.


Haha, yeah it drove me around the bend for a bit until I figured out there were different versions that have a pretty huge price difference. 

The top of the line, Wavedream Signature Edition Balanced costs about $17-20,000 USD retail. If I remember correctly. The regular XLR version is like $10k, then the RCA version is like $7k regular and $13-15k for the Signature Edition RCA. 

Just ballpark, that might help answer the question. And I think your said 4-5x May KTE, so that -should- be the Signature Edition Balanced at the full $20k?


----------



## littlej0e

Benny-x said:


> Haha, yeah it drove me around the bend for a bit until I figured out there were different versions that have a pretty huge price difference.
> 
> The top of the line, Wavedream Signature Edition Balanced costs about $17-20,000 USD retail. If I remember correctly. The regular XLR version is like $10k, then the RCA version is like $7k regular and $13-15k for the Signature Edition RCA.
> 
> Just ballpark, that might help answer the question. And I think your said 4-5x May KTE, so that -should- be the Signature Edition Balanced at the full $20k?



In that case, it was likely the Signature Edition Balanced. Was priced a hair over 20k so I suspect that was it.

Really great sounding DAC. Put the Dave and May together, increase the SQ and you have the Rockna.


----------



## Jon L

Benny-x said:


> The top of the line, Wavedream Signature Edition Balanced costs about $17-20,000 USD retail. If I remember correctly. The regular XLR version is like $10k, then the RCA version is like $7k regular and $13-15k for the Signature Edition RCA.


There's a saying:  "Speaker makers eat ramen while cable makers eat steak."


----------



## DJJEZ

Jon L said:


> There's a saying:  "Speaker makers eat ramen while cable makers eat steak."


Lmao


----------



## SuperBurrito

For speaker amps that can be used with the TC, is there any guideline as to maximum power, or is there anything else I should know?  

I can definitely see the appeal of having an amp that can power both speakers and headphones...


----------



## littlej0e (Apr 20, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> Thanks for that detailed reply
> 
> I haven't heard the Firebird cables before, but you have me intrigued.  Snake River has been on my radar, and I've heard similar feedback with the Final Audio Callisto USB.
> 
> Also, everybody seems to love the Holo May KTE.  I've been researching it recently, and I've started to get pretty interested in it.  I'm still looking to update my current dac (mDAVE), and I was focusing in on the DCS Rossini, Mola Mola Tambaqui, or Sean Jacobs power for the DAVE.  I'm curious to hear what you think of the Holo May KTE with the WA33 EE JPS, given we have similar hardware in that regard.



I will be sure to report back when it arrives! Seems like the least I could do for all of your extremely helpful advice and insight...

You hit the nail on the head with cables though -it really is personal preference. I definitely heard better sounding power cables, but went with a balanced cable because I knew the SR1a's and TCs would be plenty detailed and revealing on their own and I didn't want to melt my face with detail. If I were picking a cable for straight up detail whoring, I would definitely get something like the DC Nirvana or the Snake River as a good in-between.

As for the May, it will probably boil down to what kind of sound you are after. I suspect the Dave with the SJ's would probably complement a tube amp better than the May would. The May is warm and very analog sounding. It is a _phenomenal_ paring with the SR1a and HSA1b - truly a near-perfect match to my ear. It really warms up the SR1a's and calms them down. No more harsh edges or high end shrillness and I no longer get listening fatigue. Now my only limitation is my ability to stave off mental and physical exhaustion when listening to music.

However, I do worry the May with the WA33 EE JPS could be too much of a good thing for many. After all, most people don't like their bacon dipped in butter fried in chocolate . But if the WA33 does indeed sound more like an SS amp as some are reporting then it might end up being a great pairing after all. We shall see.


----------



## ken6217

SuperBurrito said:


> For speaker amps that can be used with the TC, is there any guideline as to maximum power, or is there anything else I should know?
> 
> I can definitely see the appeal of having an amp that can power both speakers and headphones...


Turn up the volume until you see a little bit of smoke coming from the drivers, and then turn the volume back a click.


----------



## qboogie

OceanRanger said:


> Ok, the DAC / artist similes are simply awesome. Thanks for this post!!


Next comparison you do, use james bond actors.


----------



## ken6217

Actually. with a speaker amp it’s not just the power. It’s the quality of the amp which is paramount. You can’t just get any amp that puts out a lot of power and expect excellent results.


----------



## zenlisten

I put a lot of energy into trying to compare the sound out of the TT2 directly with the sound while the XI AUDIO Formula S is in between, and in the end I didn’t find out much about the difference. Still, it’s all good news in the end.






It was immediately clear that the Formula S sounded differently but it was very hard for me to understand what exactly the differences were. These ridiculous scenarios repeated a few times:

In a specific track I find the music/bass/voice/soundstage/whatever through the Formula S amazing. So I switch (15+ seconds), and listen to the same part again directly from the TT2. And the damn thing sounds at least as amazing! In other words: the quality I found remarkable is independent from the amplification used.
I find something ugly using one device. I switch, and the issue is there on the other device too. So it’s an issue either with the recording or the rest of the system (and not the amplification parts).
In other words: I had a hard time understanding what differences I should focus on when using the TT2 directly versus using the additional amp. Either the differences are too subtle to notice after the 15+ second breaks, or my listening is too untrained, or my hearing is crap.

I asked my family to help. Unfortunately each of them only tested a single Billie Eilish song, but here it is:

My wife liked the sound via the Formula S better, even though she didn’t want me to buy yet another black box for a lot of money (and I didn’t even mention the Powerman). However, I have to take into account that I forgot to make sure that the volumes match for her listening.
After careful listening our 14 year old could not decide: “Both of them are pretty good”, was the judgement. Fair enough.
Our 17 year old found both great but slightly preferred the sound directly from the front SE of the TT2 as it had slightly “more clarity”. I was really happy to hear that as this statement fully aligned with my perception.
So I spent additional hours, tried really hard and went through a lot of music. To some tracks listened over ten times to be sure (e.g., Lumerian by Soen). And still I could not understand what exactly the differences were. The sound of Formula S (connected via inakustik premium audio RCA interconnect cables) sounded slightly differently but could not say how exactly due to my untrained ears and the 15+ second long switches. And the TT2 had a little bit more “clarity” or “transparency” which was expected. It wasn’t a critical difference though that would drastically change the enjoyment of the music for me. In other words: both are great.

The bass situation was really puzzling to me as I saw some people complaining about the lack of bass on Abyss directly from the TT2. I worked very hard to reproduce this issue. Listened to a lot of bass-heavy music, including a lot of metal but in the end I failed: to my hearing the front SE jack from the TT2 was producing just as much wonderful bass as the Formula S. This is completely against my expectations and I cannot explain it. I don’t think my hearing would be so bad that I couldn’t judge this but I cannot exclude this possibility. Or is there a significant difference in my setup? I wish I could invite those who missed the bass on Abyss from the TT2 to a joint audition and find out together what’s going on.


In the end it’s a win-win situation:

I’m positive that *the Hugo TT2 is powerful enough to drive the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC headphones*, even from the front SE jack. This result is against my expectations, and based on other’s reports I have worked really hard against it, but I have no other choice than trusting my experience. This is good news for me: I don’t have to add another component to my audio chain.
On the other hand, *the Formula S sounds like an excellent amp for the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC headphones*, even without the Powerman. It would be a strong purchase candidate for me if I had a DAVE which reportedly doesn’t have the power to drive the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TCs directly.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## mammal

zenlisten said:


> After careful listening our 14 year old could not decide: “Both of them are pretty good”, was the judgement. Fair enough.


Puberty starts earlier with each generation, if your kid is not mindblown when listening to 15k+ headphone setup, haha  but as always, fantastic write up, thanks for posting!


----------



## ra990

zenlisten said:


> I put a lot of energy into trying to compare the sound out of the TT2 directly with the sound while the XI AUDIO Formula S is in between, and in the end I didn’t find out much about the difference. Still, it’s all good news in the end.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now that's a great experiment and a very logical conclusion. If you have to struggle that much to decide which one is better, there's no reason to add the new component. As you said, it makes a lot more sense to consider an amp if you had the DAVE, but not so much with the TT2 (unless you want a different sound).


----------



## mammal

ra990 said:


> As you said, it makes a lot more sense to consider an amp if you had the DAVE, but not so much with the TT2 (unless you want a different sound).


I think it also speaks to qualities of Formula S, if it matches up to TT2’s transparency (almost). Definitely a good amp for those who are not rocking TT2, for example owners of XIAudio Sagra DAC.


----------



## jlbrach

I cant speak to the TT but I can say the chord dave direct doesnt do justice to the abyss tc and the formula s/powerman does....just my 2 cents


----------



## Orlok

simorag said:


> *Re: Amp pairing for the AB-1266 - my journey*
> 
> I started my journey in search for the 'ultimate' amp for the Abyss more than 2 years ago when I had the Formula S / Powerman, as at the time and I was not completely happy, and I kept going back and forth from it to DAVE direct over and over.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the valuable insights that you've gathered during this two-year path of finding your ideal amp partner for the TC. Being that I'm at a little over two weeks, I know I have a long way to go although I'm quite happy with what I have now as I start on my own path. It's also encouraging to know that you are also dealing with financial constraints. All this time, I thought you were one of those guys with a virtually unlimited budget! Haha.  

Based on your reviews and comments, it seems you lean a bit towards the warm and lush side of the tonal spectrum while maintaining the the highest resolution possible. I think I lean a little more towards the analytical, bright and cool side and I've always been like that with guitar tones as well - more emphasis in the high-mids and treble but still smooth, silky and sweet in the very high registers. It's why I much preferred the HD800S over the LCD-3 that I've owned in the past and part of it is that I listen to a lot of classical orchestral music and I'm very critical about how an orchestra's string section sounds - ditto for chamber music. I guess I'm going more for a cool lushness over warm lushness. It's why I also absolutely love the SR1a for classical and acoustic music listening.

I like the idea of trying and using different speaker amps with the TC in the future. The same goes for the SR1a and, someday, the Susvara. For now and the foreseeable future, I'm totally focused on optimizing what I have - within budget, of course - to get the most out of the TC. From your experience, which speaker amps had more of an analytical and cool tonal signature without being sterile, thin, harsh, etc. that can typically mar amps of that nature? Of course, I want body in the mids and firm and defined lows as well but my general preference is for something on the bright/cool side over dark/warm.


----------



## Orlok

JLoud said:


> Feedback on fleshing out the mids on the TC: I just picked up a SC cable and it did indeed fill out the midrange. I was doubtful it could be worth the price but I am happy with it. So I guess it was worth it. The SC brought up the mids at the cost of a slight reduction in bass. However I was able to adjust fit to bring the bass back up to the level I prefer.
> Now the Abyss no longer feels a little thin or analytical.


I'm starting out with the SC RCA to connect from the TT2 to the TToby as that is more pressing since I'm diverting the XLR out to a different power amp to drive the SR1a and speakers. I should receive the SC RCA set tomorrow and really looking forward to how different this will sound compared to the XLR out with the Silver Dragons. Based on what I've read, the RCA outs should be more transparent and the SC should fill out the mids while being smoother so I'm expecting a fairly noticeable difference/improvement. I was considering the the lower cost SC V RCAs and then, again, decided to go for the SC 4: "Ah, screw it. You only live once!" 

Once this is squared away, then it's the SC for the TC and I expect to be a very happy camper for at least a little while but who knows for how long? Haha.


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 20, 2021)

zenlisten said:


> I put a lot of energy into trying to compare the sound out of the TT2 directly with the sound while the XI AUDIO Formula S is in between, and in the end I didn’t find out much about the difference. Still, it’s all good news in the end.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stick with the TT2 then. If you ever want to upgrade above a TT2 (as a dac) though you will have go the separate amp route


----------



## MacedonianHero

DJJEZ said:


> I'm also looking at the holo may KTE. Heard amazing things. Wondering how it compares to a DAVE


 As much as I love the NOS appeal of the KTE DAC (and I owned it), they don't compare...the DAVE is a considerable step up, but then again, there's the price thing.


----------



## jlbrach

ah, there is always the price thing lol


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 20, 2021)

Thanks for the reply. Its not about money, I just want the better one lol It's really hard finding people who have heard or owned both  PM


----------



## littlej0e (Apr 20, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> Thanks for the reply. Its not about money, I just want the better one lol It's really hard finding people who have heard or owned both  PM


GoldenSound reviewed it and compared it directly with the Chord Dave + Mscaler right here on head-fi:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/an-...e-mscaler-qutest-and-holo-may-hqplayer.952934

It might not be quite as cut and dried as price.


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 20, 2021)

littlej0e said:


> GoldenSound reviewed it and compared it with the Chord Dave + Mscaler right here on head-fi:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/an-...e-mscaler-qutest-and-holo-may-hqplayer.952934
> 
> It might not be quite as cut and dried as price.


I've seen the review. I'm just looking for others opinions as we all hear things differently. An example is Joshua valour on youtube wasnt impressed by the susvara yet others say its the finest headphone money can buy. Thanks for replying though. I'm just gonna have to hear both for myself lol


----------



## JLoud

I think Joshua Valour does a nice job on the quality of his reviews. Having said that, our tastes are not the same. I have found myself disagreeing with him on more than one occasion. But like all these reviews you have to see how their tastes align with yours.


----------



## Orlok

JLoud said:


> I think Joshua Valour does a nice job on the quality of his reviews. Having said that, our tastes are not the same. I have found myself disagreeing with him on more than one occasion. But like all these reviews you have to see how their tastes align with yours.


Yeah, his review productions have become quite slick. I don't think it's possible for one reviewer's tastes to be even 90% aligned with anyone else's. Everyone has their own tastes and preferences and hears things in a certain way. I'd say I can agree with Joshua's assessments around 70% of the time with headphones that I have tried so his words do have some weight _to me_ but certainly not all. And then there are some reviewers whose tastes don't seem to align with mine at all so I just don't bother with their reviews. I will add that I agree with Joshua on the TC and LCD-4!


----------



## simorag (Apr 21, 2021)

Orlok said:


> Thanks for the valuable insights that you've gathered during this two-year path of finding your ideal amp partner for the TC. Being that I'm at a little over two weeks, I know I have a long way to go although I'm quite happy with what I have now as I start on my own path. It's also encouraging to know that you are also dealing with financial constraints. All this time, I thought you were one of those guys with a virtually unlimited budget! Haha.
> 
> Based on your reviews and comments, it seems you lean a bit towards the warm and lush side of the tonal spectrum while maintaining the the highest resolution possible. I think I lean a little more towards the analytical, bright and cool side and I've always been like that with guitar tones as well - more emphasis in the high-mids and treble but still smooth, silky and sweet in the very high registers. It's why I much preferred the HD800S over the LCD-3 that I've owned in the past and part of it is that I listen to a lot of classical orchestral music and I'm very critical about how an orchestra's string section sounds - ditto for chamber music. I guess I'm going more for a cool lushness over warm lushness. It's why I also absolutely love the SR1a for classical and acoustic music listening.
> 
> I like the idea of trying and using different speaker amps with the TC in the future. The same goes for the SR1a and, someday, the Susvara. For now and the foreseeable future, I'm totally focused on optimizing what I have - within budget, of course - to get the most out of the TC. From your experience, which speaker amps had more of an analytical and cool tonal signature without being sterile, thin, harsh, etc. that can typically mar amps of that nature? Of course, I want body in the mids and firm and defined lows as well but my general preference is for something on the bright/cool side over dark/warm.



I listen to mostly acoustic music (mainly classical with some jazz, in both cases with and without vocals involved), so I tend to prefer gear that brings me as close as possible to what my ears and mind recognize as the 'real' or 'natural' experience.
The AB-1266 TC - within the limitations of headphones - are extremely good at rendering that 'live' effect especially when it comes to spatial cues and physical feedback. However, as long as tonality is concerned, they are not the last word IMO, as they lack that last hint of organic feeling on the midrange that I get from my embedded memory of the real fleshy or wooden thing.

As the DAVE itself shares some of the characteristics above, that's why my amp quest brought me towards lusher / richer sounding equipment.

The AIC-10 was, in my system, restoring my perceived feeling of neutrality - where neutrality is put in the best possible sense, i.e. what I feel is closest to natural.
I managed to get a very good tonality match with other very technical headphones like the Susvara, the SR1a, the Utopia, the Mysphere, the HD800S out of the Riviera, typically by switching to a tailored ECC82 tube.

This versatility has its limitations though, as I did not get a convincing outcome with the LCD-4, or with the Empyrean which I am trying out these days.

This is just to restate the obvious, i.e. that synergy is the most important thing as 'perfect' or 'universal' pieces of gear are yet to be built.

Among those I have extensively tested with the Abyss, the best amps for an analytical, clean, open, detailed yet still smooth and ballsy / well rooted sound are the NAGRA Classic AMP and the Viva Solista (which is very far from the tube amp stereotype, by the way). The NAGRA was also a good match for the SR1a.

To more accessible budget, the Moon 600i is another very good option, and V1 items can be found in the 3kUSD ballpark which makes it a price vs. performance killer of most solid state headphone amps to pair with a low efficiency planar, and - again - another fair companion for the SR1a as well.


----------



## mammal

So just spoke to my local dealer and apparently Abyss guys are so busy that the next shipment to my dealer will be mid-May  can someone quickly confirm that all of this wait will be worth it in the long run? I am desperate!


----------



## SuperBurrito

mammal said:


> So just spoke to my local dealer and apparently Abyss guys are so busy that the next shipment to my dealer will be mid-May  can someone quickly confirm that all of this wait will be worth it in the long run? I am desperate!


Mine took 11 weeks...it was worth it for sure!


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> So just spoke to my local dealer and apparently Abyss guys are so busy that the next shipment to my dealer will be mid-May  can someone quickly confirm that all of this wait will be worth it in the long run? I am desperate!


I am almost six weeks in from my order and my dealer says they are still filling some orders from January!  He was told it will be three-four more weeks for mine.


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 21, 2021)

mammal said:


> So just spoke to my local dealer and apparently Abyss guys are so busy that the next shipment to my dealer will be mid-May  can someone quickly confirm that all of this wait will be worth it in the long run? I am desperate!


I was told the same in the UK and I'm nearly 5 weeks in


----------



## paradoxper

mammal said:


> So just spoke to my local dealer and apparently Abyss guys are so busy that the next shipment to my dealer will be mid-May  can someone quickly confirm that all of this wait will be worth it in the long run? I am desperate!


Can't be any worse than the silicone shortage world-wide.


----------



## mammal

paradoxper said:


> Can't be any worse than the silicone shortage world-wide.


Yeah, my wife was upset she couldn't get those implants.


----------



## paradoxper

mammal said:


> Yeah, my wife was upset she couldn't get those implants.


Might as well replace her with a Chinese sex doll, then.


----------



## Gadget67

paradoxper said:


> Might as well replace her with a Chinese sex doll, then.


They are on fifteen week backlog...no silicone...


----------



## ken6217

mammal said:


> Yeah, my wife was upset she couldn't get those implants.


We’re all upset she couldn’t get them either.


----------



## Crowbar44 (Apr 21, 2021)

genefruit said:


> I also spoke to Macintosh via email
> 
> genefruit= Hello, I'm excited to hear about the new MHA200 headphone amplifier. It appears to be a beautiful amplifier and I'd like to learn more about it. Specifically, when the specs note the same 500mW output regardless of load. Is this correct? I've read some conflicting information that says the following chart from your website is not correct. Can you address?
> Headphone Power Output 500mW
> ...


So they were being a bit cagey...but they were correct, the amp is designed to deliver 500mW into any load.  It's an old McIntosh trick they used on some of their highly regarded classic tube amps.  They basically use custom would transformers (which are apparently tricky to produce) along with a front panel switch that lets you switch between 4 headphone impedances (32-100, 100-250, 250-600, 600-1,000)...that's the "load" knob you see on the left front.

So basically you set the load to 32-100 for your Clears, and use 600-1,000 for your Senns...

This should land at my dealer soon - I'm going to take a listed and report back in the MHA-200 thread


----------



## qboogie

Orlok said:


> I'm starting out with the SC RCA to connect from the TT2 to the TToby as that is more pressing since I'm diverting the XLR out to a different power amp to drive the SR1a and speakers. I should receive the SC RCA set tomorrow and really looking forward to how different this will sound compared to the XLR out with the Silver Dragons. Based on what I've read, the RCA outs should be more transparent and the SC should fill out the mids while being smoother so I'm expecting a fairly noticeable difference/improvement. I was considering the the lower cost SC V RCAs and then, again, decided to go for the SC 4: "Ah, screw it. You only live once!"
> 
> Once this is squared away, then it's the SC for the TC and I expect to be a very happy camper for at least a little while but who knows for how long? Haha.


Thanks for the in-depth write ups. We are all living vicariously through your unbridled spending.


----------



## Orlok

qboogie said:


> Thanks for the in-depth write ups. We are all living vicariously through your unbridled spending.


Oh, please. Don't call it _that_! Makes me feel guilty.  

Well, came into the office and the JPS SC RCA cable arrived. So, the step-by-step JPSification (or Superconductorization) of my system officially starts today. Will provide report tonight once I hook this up from the TT2 to the TToby. One high at a time until the next itch.


----------



## DJJEZ

Orlok said:


> Oh, please. Don't call it _that_! Makes me feel guilty.
> 
> Well, came into the office and the JPS SC RCA cable arrived. So, the step-by-step JPSification (or Superconductorization) of my system officially starts today. Will provide report tonight once I hook this up from the TT2 to the TToby. One high at a time until the next itch.


What's the usa retail on those? They are $2600 in the uk


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> Oh, please. Don't call it _that_! Makes me feel guilty.
> 
> Well, came into the office and the JPS SC RCA cable arrived. So, the step-by-step JPSification (or Superconductorization) of my system officially starts today. Will provide report tonight once I hook this up from the TT2 to the TToby. *One high at a time until the next itch*.


I’m diagnosing audiophile psoriasis


----------



## Orlok (Apr 21, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> What's the usa retail on those? They are $2600 in the uk


The 0.75m is normally $1800 in the US but they have a sale going at $1600 right now. Mine needed to be 1.5m so, yeah, it's getting way up there for cables. But I was able to convince myself that this is a critical link that I won't need to upgrade later even if - actually _when_ - I upgrade the DAC down the line. There is always a way to justify any of these purchases. Haha.


----------



## DJJEZ

Orlok said:


> The 0.75m is normally $1800 in the US but they have a sale going at $1600 right now. Mine needed to be 1.5m so, yeah, it's getting way up there for cables. But I was able to convince myself that this is a critical link that I won't need to upgrade later even if - actually _when_ - I upgrade the DAC down the line. *There is always a way to justify any of these purchases*. Haha.


Totally agree. This whole hobby is about convincing yourself you need and want to spend more than you did last purchase lmao


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> The 0.75m is normally $1800 in the US but they have a sale going at $1600 right now. Mine needed to be 1.5m so, yeah, it's getting way up there for cables. But I was able to convince myself that this is a critical link that I won't need to upgrade later even if I upgrade the DAC down the line. There is always a way to justify any of these purchases. Haha.


If I want it, and I’m not creating economic hardship, that’s all the justification I need!  I’m very interested in your comments so that I can go back and read them again when my headphones finally get here.  This cable does occasionally appear on sales forums but, like you, I won’t wait if I want it.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Apr 21, 2021)

Orlok said:


> The 0.75m is normally $1800 in the US but they have a sale going at $1600 right now. Mine needed to be 1.5m so, yeah, it's getting way up there for cables. But I was able to convince myself that this is a critical link that I won't need to upgrade later even if - actually _when_ - I upgrade the DAC down the line. There is always a way to justify any of these purchases. Haha.


Interconnects are definitely super important. I had a like $1K interconnect from Danacables that was okay, but not great. So, I splurged on their highest level XLR cables at the time I bought them (they now have an even higher level).  The difference between the “cheap” IC and an the “expensive” IC was very noticeable. It actually surprised me how much better it sounded than the “cheap” ICs. It was a bigger increase in sound quality than most headphone cable upgrades.  (Though, the SC headphone cable is very noticeable too, but not all headphone cables are like that).

If you have a dedicated headphone amp, the IC directly impacts the sound. It’s the  last stage before going to the amp. I really can’t stress how much those IC cables matter.

I haven’t heard the JPS ICs, but if it’s like the SC headphone cable, I’m sure it is amazing


----------



## MacedonianHero

Ciggavelli said:


> Interconnects are definitely super important. I had a like $1K interconnect from Danacables that was okay, but not great. So, I splurged on their highest level XLR cables at the time I bought them (they now have an even higher level).  The difference between the “cheap” IC and an the “expensive” IC was very noticeable. It actually surprised me how much better it sounded than the “cheap” ICs. It was a bigger increase in sound quality than most headphone cable upgrades.  (Though, the SC headphone cable is very noticeable too, but not all headphone cables are like that).
> 
> If you have a dedicated headphone amp, the IC directly impacts the sound. It’s the  last stage before going to the amp. I really can’t stress how much those IC cables matter.
> 
> I haven’t heard the JPS ICs, but if it’s like the SC headphone cable, I’m sure it is amazing



I agree...especially with endgame gear like the Phi TC. Perfect example, I just moved up to a better Kimber RCA than my basic Nordost in between my DAVE and HPA4...I can now hear much improved imaging that sets me right in the studio with Chet Baker...the room reverberations and spacing have kicked up to a whole new level!


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> Interconnects are definitely super important. I had a like $1K interconnect from Danacables that was okay, but not great. So, I splurged on their highest level XLR cables at the time I bought them (they now have an even higher level).  The difference between the “cheap” IC and an the “expensive” IC was very noticeable. It actually surprised me how much better it sounded than the “cheap” ICs. It was a bigger increase in sound quality than most headphone cable upgrades.  (Though, the SC headphone cable is very noticeable too, but not all headphone cables are like that).
> 
> If you have a dedicated headphone amp, the IC directly impacts the sound. It’s the  last stage before going to the amp. I really can’t stress how much those IC cables matter.
> 
> I haven’t heard the JPS ICs, but if it’s like the SC headphone cable, I’m sure it is amazing


Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. The DAC/preamp to HP/speaker amp chain is really where the final "tone" happens before it gets sent to the headphone or speakers so I decided it'd be wiser to get the best I can right now with the long term in mind. With lesser headphones, I'm sure it wouldn't be as noticeable but, with the super high resolution of the TC and its ability to pick up the tiniest details, one has to optimize the system around it to realize its full potential.

Well, now you have made me want to ditch work and go home early!


----------



## Orlok

MacedonianHero said:


> I agree...especially with endgame gear like the Phi TC. Perfect example, I just moved up to a better Kimber RCA than my basic Nordost in between my DAVE and HPA4...I can now hear much improved imaging that sets me right in the studio with Chet Baker...the room reverberations and spacing have kicked up to a whole new level!


Yes, one endgame purchase triggers an endgame overhaul process of everything else. Haha. The key is still being able to fully enjoy what you have now as you plot the next course.


----------



## paradoxper

Orlok said:


> Yes, one endgame purchase triggers an endgame overhaul process of everything else. Haha. The key is still being able to fully enjoy what you have now as you plot the next course.


It also perpetuates this illusionary endgame which doesn't exist no matter how much money you throw at it.  🤣


----------



## Ciggavelli

paradoxper said:


> It also perpetuates this illusionary endgame which doesn't exist no matter how much money you throw at it.  🤣


Pretty much it’s this


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> It also perpetuates this illusionary endgame which doesn't exist no matter how much money you throw at it.  🤣


Actually you reach end game if you don’t have a lot of money to spend. You love what you have.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> Pretty much it’s this


As this is life.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Actually you reach end game if you don’t have a lot of money to spend. You love what you have


Uh, nope. That is called logic and reason.

Also known as utter nonsense.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Uh, nope. That is called logic and reason.
> 
> Also known as utter nonsense.


Well I don’t subscribe to it. Would be nice though.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Well I don’t subscribe to it. Would be nice though.


Yes, you are a lost cause.


----------



## jlbrach

paradoxper said:


> It also perpetuates this illusionary endgame which doesn't exist no matter how much money you throw at it.  🤣


what fun would it be if there was an end game or an objective best?


----------



## Ciggavelli

jlbrach said:


> what fun would it be if there was an end game or an objective best?


You could get an achievement to display on your profile


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> what fun would it be if there was an end game or an objective best?


Can I just find THAT nirvana and die in peace.

You junkie.


----------



## Stereolab42 (Apr 22, 2021)

Vicarious unboxing for those still waiting:




















Build quality is nuts, no complaints here. I love the ceramic finish. Aside from the finish it's pretty much the same as the OG physically.

*Initial sonic thoughts:* Detail monster, bring your 5-figure tube amps please. RUTHLESSLY clinical, you will be weeping over your poorly-recorded favorites. I thought OG Abyss was detailed, but it sounds smeared and wet in comparison. The increased accuracy brings along more focused imaging, not quite as precise as the more intimate LCD-4, but close. The TC, like the OG, is anything but intimate, preserving the classic Abyss super-wide and cinematic soundstage. Bass is just as strong, but extends deeper. Vocals are more natural; I'm not getting the weird timbre I find sometimes with the OG. As for sheer dynamics, "slam", it's a straight tie.

(Before anyone asks, the differences are not due to cables. I primarily compared with the Nornes on the TC and the stock Abyss cables on the OG, but swapping did not change my conclusions. I'm not a big believer in cables making a sonic difference... and no, I don't want to discuss it.)

*One thing I can't figure out: *The TC is documented to be +3dB more sensitive than the OG, which should translate to 1/3rd greater perceived loudness at the same volume. But surprisingly enough, the OG is DEFINITELY louder at the same volume. Impedance remains the same at 47 ohms, right? I suppose I could measure impedance myself (planars are a purely resistive load, I think), but the thought of sticking multimeter leads into the wiring of a $5k headphone doesn't excite me. This is kind of a mystery, but as it stands the TC is NOT easier to drive than the OG. This is not an amp-specific issue, it's the same on my HPA4 versus the Woo WA5. I'm not really complaining since I'm not lacking for amp power... but... I hate mysteries. *EDIT: *Mystery solved, I did use a multimeter and the OG is 43 ohms while the TC is 49 ohms.

So in the end... which is better? The TC demolishes the OG in many technical categories, and doesn't fall behind in any. But the OG remains extremely fun to listen to, like movie popcorn. It is definitely more forgiving of crap recordings. Detail fanatics must go for the TC, it's near-electrostatic levels of insanity. I'm not a detail fanatic, but I do strongly appreciate it... so while I'm glad I have the TC, if I couldn't afford it I'd still be happy with the OG. I will need to see how I adapt.


----------



## DJJEZ

Stereolab42 said:


> Vicarious unboxing for those still waiting:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Orlok (Apr 22, 2021)

Gadget67 said:


> If I want it, and I’m not creating economic hardship, that’s all the justification I need!  I’m very interested in your comments so that I can go back and read them again when my headphones finally get here.  This cable does occasionally appear on sales forums but, like you, I won’t wait if I want it.


Well, I've now got a few hours in with the JPS SC RCAs but I was able to tell the difference within seconds as I heard the first notes coming through the TC. I can say that it is indeed a major improvement over the Silver Dragon XLRs in terms of clarity, soundstage, imaging, transparency and also in that indescribable sense of musicality. It's warmer and smoother yet even clearer and more transparent. And the soundstage is - yet again - further widened and deepened. It's almost weird that it's so much clearer and smoother at the same time. The midrange is fuller and brought more forward and any semblance of sibilance, sizzle, and spiky treble has been completely eliminated. The vocals now sound absolutely amazing and realistic. The vocals - especially female vocals - is the one area that the TC had room for improvement.

I am, again, amazed by the amount of improvement I'm hearing. The bass is even bigger, deeper and more defined than before. The soundstage is just ridiculous now. I mean this now makes the HD800S sound small in comparison. It is really the _depth_ of the soundstage that is so amazing and how all the different instruments, voices, the reverb trails and other sonic effects extend so deeply into this pitch black darkness in the background - yes, the abyss! No pun intended.

I would imagine going from the TT2's XLRs to the slightly more transparent single-ended RCAs played a small part too, but I'm certain this is pretty much all SC doing its thing. I expected a significant improvement but Abyss/JPS has again exceeded my rather high expectations. I really did not expect it to sound this much better. And, of course, it should continue improving over the next 200 hours of burn-in. It's now hard to imagine what the SC headphone cable will do but I guess I'll find out soon enough. This being said, I do now firmly believe this DAC/preamp-to-HP/speaker amp chain is where one can really notice a rather dramatic difference with a really good cable. It's obvious now that more JPS SC cables are in my future. Go blue!


----------



## Shahrose

Orlok said:


> Well, I've now got a few hours in with the JPS SC RCAs but I was able to tell the difference within seconds as I heard the first notes coming through the TC. I can say that it is indeed a major improvement over the Silver Dragon XLRs in terms of clarity, soundstage, imaging, transparency and also in that indescribable sense of musicality. It's warmer and smoother yet even clearer and more transparent. And the soundstage is - yet again - further widened and deepened. It's almost weird that it's so much clearer and smoother at the same time. The midrange is fuller and brought more forward and any semblance of sibilance, sizzle, and spiky treble has been completely eliminated. The vocals now sound absolutely amazing and realistic. The vocals - especially female vocals - is the one area that the TC had room for improvement.
> 
> I am, again, amazed by the amount of improvement I'm hearing. The bass is even bigger, deeper and more defined than before. The soundstage is just ridiculous now. I mean this now makes the HD800S sound small in comparison. It is really the _depth_ of the soundstage that is so amazing and how all the different instruments, voices, the reverb trails and other sonic effects extend so deeply into this pitch black darkness in the background - yes, the abyss! No pun intended.
> 
> I would imagine going from the TT2's XLRs to the slightly more transparent single-ended RCAs played a small part too, but I'm certain this is pretty much all SC doing its thing. I expected a significant improvement but Abyss/JPS has again exceeded my rather high expectations. I really did not expect it to sound this much better. And, of course, it should continue improving over the next 200 hours of burn-in. It's now hard to imagine what the SC headphone cable will do but I guess I'll find out soon enough. This being said, I do now firmly believe this DAC/preamp-to-HP/speaker amp chain is where one can really notice a rather dramatic difference with a really good cable. It's obvious now that more JPS SC cables are in my future. Go blue!



I had a poor experience with the Silver Dragon XLR ICs (too dry and small-sounding), which is curious because I find their HP Silver cables to be excellent.


----------



## Orlok

Shahrose said:


> I had a poor experience with the Silver Dragon XLR ICs (too dry and small-sounding), which is curious because I find their HP Silver cables to be excellent.


Well, I need to get the JPS SC XLRs for the amp driving the SR1a. I now feel like I'm neglecting it. Haha. Overall, I like the HP Silver although I don't think it's an ideal match for the TC. I got the Silver IEM cable for my JH Audio Layla CIEM some years ago and it was a huge improvement over the stock cable so that's why I've tended to just go with their cables but I now understand the necessity of trying more cables and doing comparisons to find the right synergy.


----------



## Roasty

Orlok said:


> Well, I need to get the JPS SC XLRs for the amp driving the SR1a. I now feel like I'm neglecting it. Haha. Overall, I like the HP Silver although I don't think it's an ideal match for the TC. I got the Silver IEM cable for my JH Audio Layla CIEM some years ago and it was a huge improvement over the stock cable so that's why I've tended to just go with their cables but I now understand the necessity of trying more cables and doing comparisons to find the right synergy.



I am using the SC4 xlrs and really like it. Equipment matching is impt tho. I only use it between my dac and tube amp. I tried it between my pre and power amp and it was a bit too much treble energy for me.


----------



## ctop

Orlok said:


> Well, I've now got a few hours in with the JPS SC RCAs but I was able to tell the difference within seconds as I heard the first notes coming through the TC. I can say that it is indeed a major improvement over the Silver Dragon XLRs in terms of clarity, soundstage, imaging, transparency and also in that indescribable sense of musicality. It's warmer and smoother yet even clearer and more transparent. And the soundstage is - yet again - further widened and deepened. It's almost weird that it's so much clearer and smoother at the same time. The midrange is fuller and brought more forward and any semblance of sibilance, sizzle, and spiky treble has been completely eliminated. The vocals now sound absolutely amazing and realistic. The vocals - especially female vocals - is the one area that the TC had room for improvement.
> 
> I am, again, amazed by the amount of improvement I'm hearing. The bass is even bigger, deeper and more defined than before. The soundstage is just ridiculous now. I mean this now makes the HD800S sound small in comparison. It is really the _depth_ of the soundstage that is so amazing and how all the different instruments, voices, the reverb trails and other sonic effects extend so deeply into this pitch black darkness in the background - yes, the abyss! No pun intended.
> 
> I would imagine going from the TT2's XLRs to the slightly more transparent single-ended RCAs played a small part too, but I'm certain this is pretty much all SC doing its thing. I expected a significant improvement but Abyss/JPS has again exceeded my rather high expectations. I really did not expect it to sound this much better. And, of course, it should continue improving over the next 200 hours of burn-in. It's now hard to imagine what the SC headphone cable will do but I guess I'll find out soon enough. This being said, I do now firmly believe this DAC/preamp-to-HP/speaker amp chain is where one can really notice a rather dramatic difference with a really good cable. It's obvious now that more JPS SC cables are in my future. Go blue!


+1
Awesome cable...Enjoying mine from the Holo May to the Riviera AIC-10


----------



## SuperBurrito

Ciggavelli said:


> Interconnects are definitely super important.


For me, power cables have made way more difference than interconnects, speaker cables or headphone cables.  I'm not really a cable guy, so this outcome surprised me.


----------



## Stereolab42 (Apr 22, 2021)

OK I've figured out why my OG Abyss sounded louder than my TC Abyss despite the TC supposedly being +3dB more sensitive. I measure the impedance with a multimeter (using an XLR to 1/4" adapter for easier access) and the OG was 43 ohms while the TC was 49 ohms! This is quite a difference from the 47 that both were also documented to have. Maybe someone else can measure their TCs or OGs and we can see if this is natural build variation or just incorrect specs.

*EDIT:* I emailed Abyss and they said it was natural build varation.


----------



## JLoud

Anyone know the difference between the Super Conductor and Ultra Conductor XLR cables? Is it like the difference between stock and super Conductor headphone cables?


----------



## spacelion2077

Don't waste your money on headphone cables. I owned a superconductor cable and stock cable. Blinded tested, couldn't tell a difference at all.


----------



## paradoxper

Can we maybe argue why RAP isn't music instead.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Apr 23, 2021)

Deleted


----------



## spacelion2077

I feel slightly obligated when I see other people are considering dishing out 2k to buy a headphone cable. That's more money to buy a Hd800s, LCD2, Ayra, Focal Clear. I don't really care about measurements as they are not everything when it comes to audio equipments. I trust my ears. And my ear tells me this time, the differences superconductor makes are hardly detectable and does not justify the price tag they have on them.


----------



## ken6217

If you’re actually trying to figure out the logic of pricing in the audio community, you need a psychiatrist.

if audio stores sold hammers, they would be $500.00.


----------



## spacelion2077

ken6217 said:


> If you’re actually trying to figure out the logic of pricing in the audio community, you need a psychiatrist.
> 
> if audio stores sold hammers, they would be $500.00.



If the same hammer with a different build and the word "pro" added in the name. It would easily sell $1000 in an audio store.

This is typical in audio community. Hd800s is a slightly modified version of Hd800, it costs twice as more. D8000 pro and D8000 are the same headphone with different tuning. People always go for the expensive one with the pro in its name and assume the more expensive version will definitely deliver better sound quality and enjoyment their ears can perceive.


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 23, 2021)

spacelion2077 said:


> I feel slightly obligated when I see other people are considering dishing out 2k to buy a headphone cable.* That's more money to buy a Hd800s, LCD2, Ayra, Focal Clear.* I don't really care about measurements as they are not everything when it comes to audio equipments. I trust my ears. And my ear tells me this time, the differences superconductor makes are hardly detectable and does not justify the price tag they have on them.


I don't think anyone in here is trying to buy $1000 to $1500 headphones when they have 1266tc/susvara/lcd4 etc

They are trying to maximise their current systems and take it to the highest level possible. We get it your not a headphone cable believer but unfortunately your not going to sway the majority of people in this thread by saying don't buy the superconductor cable lol

At this level the last final few % is $$$$


----------



## jlbrach

I am perfectly fine with a person not believing in expensive cables, I am less fine with him trying to proselytize everyone else to his point of view


----------



## JLoud

I finally sold most of my $1000-1500 headphones as I never listen to them. I used the cash for my SC cable. In the grand scheme of things the improvement was small but as others including myself have said the small improvements are worth it. Value is totally out the window. If you can’t justify it then don’t buy it. Doesn’t mean there isn’t a difference.


----------



## spacelion2077 (Apr 23, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> I don't think anyone in here is trying to buy $1000 to $1500 headphones when they have 1266tc/susvara/lcd4 etc
> 
> They are trying to maximise their current systems and take it to the highest level possible. We get it your not a headphone cable believer but unfortunately your not going to sway the majority of people in this thread by saying don't buy the superconductor cable lol
> 
> At this level the last final few % is $$$$



I don't know about anyone. I have some expensive cans and less costly ones and sure there are some guys like me who also appreciate a good Hd800s and LCDX.  More expensive headphones don't necessarily mean they can deliver better sonic enjoyment. At some point, we will come to realize that they are all unique and offer different presentation.

There is a discussion on ASR lately that different cables used on the same headphone measures absolutely the same. You can argue that some aspects of audio can't be measured but again there is the argument that if there is a perceivable audible difference, then how come it can't be measured.  What you want to get out out of is up to your own personal belief.  And I believe my ears more than measurement number and price tag. In this specific case, with JPS return policy in mind.  I can't recommend superconductor cable to those who are seeking to improve the sound of AB 1266 TC. You will get more out of it if you invest the same amount of money on an amp.


----------



## Gadget67

spacelion2077 said:


> I don't know about anyone. I have some expensive cans and less costly ones and sure there are some guys like me who also appreciate a good Hd800s and LCDX.  More expensive headphones don't necessarily mean they can deliver better sonic enjoyment. At some point, we will come to realize that they are all unique and offer different presentation.
> 
> There is a discussion on ASR lately that different cables used on the same headphone measures absolutely the same. You can argue that some aspects of audio can't be measured but again there is the argument that *if there is a perceivable audible difference, then how come it can't be measured. * What you want to get out out of is up to your own personal belief.  And I believe my ears more than measurement number and price tag. In this specific case, with JPS return policy in mind.  I can't recommend superconductor cable to those who are seeking to improve the sound of AB 1266 TC. You will get more out of it if you invest the same amount of money on an amp.


I posted this link earlier; if the ASR people can come up with a way to measure what happens from the point sound enters the ear until it gets to the brain maybe I’ll pay attention.  Otherwise I’m quite comfortable that different cables do make a difference for me.  YMMV.
https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/how-do-we-hear


----------



## simorag

spacelion2077 said:


> Don't waste your money on headphone cables. I owned a superconductor cable and stock cable. Blinded tested, couldn't tell a difference at all.



Then all the power to you, but - just to add another data point - my ears tell me a _very _different story 

I am in the middle of a cable testing exercise (power, interconnects) since a few weeks now, and I did find myself very much challenged to detect any difference - blindfolded or not - at times, even between cables with a 3x price difference, but that did not happen with the Superconductor HP cable vs. stock or other aftermarket cables for the AB-1266.

Recently, I was fiddling with the Susvara stock vs some aftermarket cables, and, again, the difference was pretty striking.

As for ASR and the whole matter of trying to validate or ditch audio equipment based on measurements, I made a point to myself long time ago to never argue with anybody using this kind of logic*, as it would be a hopeless conversation (possibly because of my fault, but still ... ).

* except I may be doing just that right now 😂


----------



## littlej0e (Apr 23, 2021)

spacelion2077 said:


> I don't know about anyone. I have some expensive cans and less costly ones and sure there are some guys like me who also appreciate a good Hd800s and LCDX.  More expensive headphones don't necessarily mean they can deliver better sonic enjoyment. At some point, we will come to realize that they are all unique and offer different presentation.
> 
> There is a discussion on ASR lately that different cables used on the same headphone measures absolutely the same. You can argue that some aspects of audio can't be measured but again there is the argument that if there is a perceivable audible difference, then how come it can't be measured.  What you want to get out out of is up to your own personal belief.  And I believe my ears more than measurement number and price tag. In this specific case, with JPS return policy in mind.  I can't recommend superconductor cable to anyone who's seeking to improve the sound of AB 1266 TC. You will get more out of it if you invest the same amount of money on an amp.



The problem I have with ASR and Amir's approach is the notion that everything can be measured and if it can't using the tech he is using it therefore doesn't exist. This is not a particularly good approach to the scientific method. After all, there is a reason why this debate has raged for years -it's because neither side has been able to definitely prove the other wrong. Therefore, stating absolutes is at best disingenuous and at worst incredibly irresponsible.

A bit more food for thought: some people suffer from a medical condition called synesthesia where stimulus, namely audio, causes all sorts of unexplained effects with listeners, such as seeing colors, feelings of falling, euphoria, etc. Many scientists have tried studying this phenomenon using MRIs, etc., but they still don't definitively know why or how this happens. More importantly, they haven't truly figured out how to measure it. Sound familiar? So if audio can make a person feel like they are riding a roller coaster or cause visual hallucinations, is it really that much of a stretch to believe that some people can hear minor differences in audio cables?


----------



## DJJEZ

spacelion2077 said:


> I don't know about anyone. I have some expensive cans and less costly ones and sure there are some guys like me who also appreciate a good Hd800s and LCDX.  More expensive headphones don't necessarily mean they can deliver better sonic enjoyment. At some point, we will come to realize that they are all unique and offer different presentation.
> 
> There is a discussion on ASR lately that different cables used on the same headphone measures absolutely the same. You can argue that some aspects of audio can't be measured but again there is the argument that if there is a perceivable audible difference, then how come it can't be measured.  What you want to get out out of is up to your own personal belief.  And I believe my ears more than measurement number and price tag. In this specific case, with JPS return policy in mind.  I can't recommend superconductor cable to those who are seeking to improve the sound of AB 1266 TC. You will get more out of it if you invest the same amount of money on an amp.


ASR is irrelevant to me I dont give a damn about measurements lol

Also there are alot of people who already have their dream amp. Dac. Cables etc so the headphone cable is the last icing on the cake


----------



## spacelion2077

littlej0e said:


> The problem I have with ASR and Amir's approach is the notion that everything can be measured, and if it can't using the tech he is using it therefore doesn't exist, is not a particularly good approach to the scientific method. After all, there is a reason why this debate has raged for years -it's because no side has been able to definitely prove the other wrong. Therefore, stating absolutes is at best disingenuous and at worst incredibly irresponsible.
> 
> A bit more food for thought: some people suffer from a medical condition called synesthesia where stimulus, namely audio, causes all sorts of unexplained effects with listeners, such as seeing colors, feelings of falling, euphoria, etc. Many scientists have tried studying this phenomenon using MRIs, etc., but they still don't definitively know why or how this happens. More importantly, they haven't truly figured out how to measure it. Sound familiar? So if audio can make a person feel like they are riding a roller coaster or cause visual hallucinations, is it really that much of a stretch to believe that some people can hear minor differences in audio cables?



I'm not really sure if everything can be measured. My Audio Gd M9 amp measures terribly according to them. I still enjoy quite a bit to power most of my cans. I'm not a ASR defender.  My personal opinion is better measurement doesn't lead to better enjoyment, the same goes to headphones.


----------



## spacelion2077 (Apr 23, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> ASR is irrelevant to me I dont give a damn about measurements lol
> 
> Also there are alot of people who already have their dream amp. Dac. Cables etc so the headphone cable is the last icing on the cake



Yeah if you already have the ideal headphone, amp/pre amp, and dac, then yeah by all means.


----------



## JLoud

I agree a better amp will deliver a bigger difference in sound. But once you are at endgame amp and dac then cables and such are the next step.


----------



## mammal

DJJEZ said:


> ASR is irrelevant to me I dont give a damn about measurements lol


I don't know where the quote "Amir, don't be a lentil" comes from, but it became a statement in my household whenever someone is trying to persuade the other side with lack of a proof, a logic like "well, I tried to measure XYZ and there was no difference", yet not allowing the argument nor possibility that the measurement used may not be a good one or yet invented.

As for camps of "collector who wants to use their budget to have 7 pair of headphones/systems" vs "I want an ultimate setup, the same amount of money into one system" - here I don't understand why people argue about their views. It is their money, and this is a hobby, so they should be able to spent it the way they want.

I for one bought a Superconductor cable, did not hear a difference and sold it. Does it mean that there is no difference to other people? How could I even claim that, I am me, not someone else. If you hear a difference, or even if you are imagining it, more power to you!

However, I do understand that those who are reading forums, hype-ing themselves over something they do not have a chance to listen to and then they buy blindly, then yes, they could be disappointed. Happened to me so many times. But this is why I am pricing "making mistakes" and "trying things out" into my budget. That's the part of what I enjoy about this hobby, building a system I like, it may not please others, but that's completely OK.


----------



## JLoud

Again I agree. I have bought amps, dacs, cables and couldn’t hear a difference. So I moved on and sold them. Others I could hear a difference. Sometimes you just have to try it for yourself.


----------



## spacelion2077

I wish JPS has a more lenient return policy so we can try out more of their items. I'm considering getting their Diana but nowhere close to me I can get one to demo. All their return items are subjected to a 15% - 20% restocking fee plus shipping charge for both ways.


----------



## paradoxper

I don't know, may you close your eyes and forever find those extended highs, sweet mids, compiled with that thunderous, rhythmic, harmonious bass line only the Superconductor can truthfully bring into frame.

I, for one, can't find those melodies. Maybe it's the Norney cable or perhaps Jay-Z synergizes more well with the Superconductor. 

Shrugs.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 23, 2021)

simorag said:


> Then all the power to you, but - just to add another data point - my ears tell me a _very _different story
> 
> I am in the middle of a cable testing exercise (power, interconnects) since a few weeks now, and I did find myself very much challenged to detect any difference - blindfolded or not - at times, even between cables with a 3x price difference, but that did not happen with the Superconductor HP cable vs. stock or other aftermarket cables for the AB-1266.
> 
> ...


Sometimes I envy those who can't hear the differences. Those who can are cursed and doomed to spend the money.  

But, seriously, I was amazed by the difference the SC RCA interconnects had in my setup in between the TT2 and TToby. I've spent the past few days going back and forth between the JPS stock and the Silver Dragons for the TC and the difference is very clear. Even my son could hear the difference. I've decided that the JPS stock is the way to go for me. The Silvers have a little bit of treble spike and energy that I now find annoying after spending more time with the JPS stock. But, as you mentioned, I can still hear that there is room for improvement in the mids and EQ isn't going to really fix this as we are talking about such minute details. It really isn't a matter of frequency response or how they measure but kind of where the different frequency bands are _placed_ in the sonic spectrum or soundstage - to my ears, anyway.

Some things I really have a hard time hearing. I read that using the TT2's Hi-Gain mode is more transparent than the Lo-Gain mode, according to Rob Watts. So I tried this but it just was not something I could notice right away. I did this for 5~10 more minutes and then it becomes more of the brain getting confused and thinking, "Well, since Rob said this, the Hi-Gain _must_ sound better." So I keep it that way now and it was free! Haha. Perhaps if I sat down and tested with total focus for half-hour I can detect something but - in cases like this - it's moot _to me_ since it's just not readily perceptible.

The same goes for Lossless vs. Hi-Res vs. DSD. I've certainly done my share of comparing these formats and have come to the conclusion that the most important thing is the recording quality itself and a well-recorded Lossless track/album will sound better than an old poorly-recorded Hi-Res or DSD track/album. When things are equal, yes, I can hear a _slight_ difference but in no way do I ever feel like I need Hi-Res versions of Lossless albums/tracks I have. I have a few dozen DSD titles but I never listen to them anymore and can't justify the file size as well as the cost to keep buying them. But I know some people who swear by DSDs or MQA or what-have-you. In the end, as usual and always, it comes down to what is important to you.


----------



## Orlok

Recently, I referred to the TC review by Wolfgang at musicalhead.de. I've read this review probably a half-dozen times over the past year but I wanted to get his take on the SC again. He is a cable skeptic and very suspicious of expensive cables and he made that quite clear at the beginning of the review. In the end, though, this is ultimately what he had to say about the SC:






I shall find out if I hear the same. Even if I do, is it worth the cost? I guess that is only for me to decide and based on what I like to hear and want to hear.


----------



## spacelion2077

Orlok said:


> Recently, I referred to the TC review by Wolfgang at musicalhead.de. I've read this review probably a half-dozen times over the past year but I wanted to get his take on the SC again. He is a cable skeptic and very suspicious of expensive cables and he made that quite clear at the beginning of the review. In the end, though, this is ultimately what he had to say about the SC:
> 
> 
> 
> I shall find out if I hear the same. Even if I do, is it worth the cost? I guess that is only for me to decide and based on what I like to hear and want to hear.



I guess you will just have to find yourself if you are curious.  People's depth of hearing are different and sometimes we have confirmation bias . Some of us don't hear a difference here while others do. Do keep in mind though, JPS labs return items are all subjected to a 15 to 20 percent restocking fee plus shipping fee for both ways.


----------



## Gadget67

spacelion2077 said:


> I guess you will just have to find yourself if you are curious.  People's depth of hearing are different and sometimes we have confirmation bias . Some of us don't hear a difference here while others do. Do keep in mind though, *JPS labs return items are all subjected to a 15 to 20 percent restocking fee plus shipping fee for both ways.*


Well, it’s better than not being able to return it at all.  I consider it a rental fee (15% for cables, I believe) and if I like it so much the better.


----------



## Tarttett

Gadget67 said:


> I posted this link earlier; if the ASR people can come up with a way to measure what happens from the point sound enters the ear until it gets to the brain maybe I’ll pay attention.  Otherwise I’m quite comfortable that different cables do make a difference for me.  YMMV.
> https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/how-do-we-hear





littlej0e said:


> A bit more food for thought: some people suffer from a medical condition called synesthesia where stimulus, namely audio, causes all sorts of unexplained effects with listeners, such as seeing colors, feelings of falling, euphoria, etc. Many scientists have tried studying this phenomenon using MRIs, etc., but they still don't definitively know why or how this happens. More importantly, they haven't truly figured out how to measure it. Sound familiar? So if audio can make a person feel like they are riding a roller coaster or cause visual hallucinations, is it really that much of a stretch to believe that some people can hear minor differences in audio cables?


It would not be required to be able to understand what occurs within the human brain, to be able to know of whether or not different cables produce an effect for the physical sound.


----------



## Tarttett

littlej0e said:


> The problem I have with ASR and Amir's approach is the notion that everything can be measured and if it can't using the tech he is using it therefore doesn't exist. This is not a particularly good approach to the scientific method. After all, there is a reason why this debate has raged for years -it's because neither side has been able to definitely prove the other wrong. Therefore, stating absolutes is at best disingenuous and at worst incredibly irresponsible.





mammal said:


> I don't know where the quote "Amir, don't be a lentil" comes from, but it became a statement in my household whenever someone is trying to persuade the other side with lack of a proof, a logic like "well, I tried to measure XYZ and there was no difference", yet not allowing the argument nor possibility that the measurement used may not be a good one or yet invented.


Unfortunately, it had appeared to me that a lot of those people who consider measurements to be important would not consider the possibility that the differences between the different pieces of equipment possibly exist, and that the testing methodology that had been utilised merely had not been sufficient for demonstrating those differences that possibly exist.


----------



## Ratephi (Apr 23, 2021)

Enjoying very much the intense back to back exchange! And I believe that the fundamental mistake that many of us tend to make when scrolling through forums like head-fi, is reading posts of other people as if they represented the "ultimate truth" that the respective poster has put in writing and is somehow trying to impose onto all of us... 

I'm a very analytical person by nature and, before investing money on pretty much anything, I need to do my homework. I need to research, study, compare. I typically know everything of the item I'm considering to buy, even before seeing it "live" the first time. That said, the Superconductor was for me one of the most straightforward as well as unplanned and "unprepared" purchases I've ever made in my entire audiophile career. It was a very convincing upgrade to the standard cable and I decided to pull the trigger no more than 10 minutes into the very first audition of this cable.

Does that mean that the SC is the best cable in the world? Or that I expect all of you who do not own it yet to rush immediately and buy one right now? Of course not! 

To be honest, I actually have the impression that there's more and more people who bought the SC and have returned it or sold it right away or that were generally not blown away by the cable...so, should any further confirmation still be needed, in my view this proves once again that we are all different, that we hear differently, that we like different types of sound. To me, that means also that, in some cases, the ears of some of us are less or more sensitive to some frequencies or are just not "trained" enough, for them to catch the nuances that the ear of a seasoned audiophile can spot when doing A/B testing on such high-end devices like the ones we are lucky enough to own... This last scenario, as far as I'm concerned, is an extremely common one. Not that I consider myself a seasoned audiophile but, after these several years spent in this crazy hobby, I can certainly appreciate how my ear matured over time and how, when it all started, I really had no clue of what sounded best and for what reason....


----------



## mammal

Ratephi said:


> after these several years spent in this crazy hobby, I can certainly appreciate how my ear matured over time and how, when it all started, I really had no clue of what sounded best and for what reason


Oh yeah for sure, I would also like to add, that over time my preferences change and I lust after different things. At first, I wanted an Audeze for its bass response (days of LCD2/3), just later to learn (by doing) that I much more prefer soundstage representation (like Arya), which then followed up with "I need resolution". Yet, when my friends offer me a glass of whiskey to A/B, I cannot tell the difference, as both burn my mouth too much. I could never consider spending $1000 for a bottle, yet I totally respect and love how excited they are about their purchases, even if I am not capable of enjoying them.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Has anyone of you experimented with pads? I'm not a big fan of the stock ones and designed an adapter system for Sony's which I like quite a bit. Sourcing thick ones is a problem though


----------



## Orlok

Gadget67 said:


> Well, it’s better than not being able to return it at all.  I consider it a rental fee (15% for cables, I believe) and if I like it so much the better.


Yes, even if one returns it, if it satiates the curiosity and you feel better about what you have now and not have to wonder anymore, then it's worth the cost. I believe there is value in satisfying the curiosity - especially in this hobby of ours.


----------



## InTune321

I was wondering if anyone has gone from Diana Phi's to 1266 TC's - and what their impressions were/are between the two. I currently have Diana Phi's and am 5 weeks into my 8 week wait time. So I am just looking for ways to pass time between now and then...


----------



## Orlok

mammal said:


> Oh yeah for sure, I would also like to add, that over time my preferences change and I lust after different things. At first, I wanted an Audeze for its bass response (days of LCD2/3), just later to learn (by doing) that I much more prefer soundstage representation (like Arya), which then followed up with "I need resolution". Yet, when my friends offer me a glass of whiskey to A/B, I cannot tell the difference, as both burn my mouth too much. I could never consider spending $1000 for a bottle, yet I totally respect and love how excited they are about their purchases, even if I am not capable of enjoying them.


I once got a gift of Ballantine's 30-year-old single malt and, man, it was awesome. Incredibly smooth and refined compared to, say, the blended Johnnie Walker Black. That being said, I wouldn't buy a bottle myself for that momentary pleasure and which will disappear in a hurry. Now, good cables we can enjoy for a lifetime.


----------



## spacelion2077 (Apr 23, 2021)

InTune321 said:


> I was wondering if anyone has gone from Diana Phi's to 1266 TC's - and what their impressions were/are between the two. I currently have Diana Phi's and am 5 weeks into my 8 week wait time. So I am just looking for ways to pass time between now and then...



Same, despite the disheartening review on ASR, I still want to audition the latest Diana. Abyss used to have a shop on amazon, but I guess since they charge restocking fee upon the return, they no longer sell them on amazon.


----------



## Orlok

spacelion2077 said:


> I guess you will just have to find yourself if you are curious.  People's depth of hearing are different and sometimes we have confirmation bias . Some of us don't hear a difference here while others do. Do keep in mind though, JPS labs return items are all subjected to a 15 to 20 percent restocking fee plus shipping fee for both ways.


Well, if the SC didn't work out for you, there is always this option.


----------



## Gadget67

InTune321 said:


> I was wondering if anyone has gone from Diana Phi's to 1266 TC's - and what their impressions were/are between the two. I currently have Diana Phi's and am 5 weeks into my 8 week wait time. So I am just looking for ways to pass time between now and then...


Hopefully it’s only 8 weeks...I’m six weeks in and looking at another three or so.  I’ll be curious about your comparison of the Diana Phi and 1266.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

spacelion2077 said:


> I guess you will just have to find yourself if you are curious.  People's depth of hearing are different and sometimes we have confirmation bias . Some of us don't hear a difference here while others do. Do keep in mind though, JPS labs return items are all subjected to a 15 to 20 percent restocking fee plus shipping fee for both ways.


 That's a way to do it


----------



## Orlok

Speaking on this subject of cables that has energized this thread, I have to admit I can't ignore the posts and reviews regarding USB and BNC cables in other threads. A couple of cables that seem to pop up often in discussions and in members' system photos are the Lampizator Callisto USB cable and the Wave High Fidelity STORM Reference BNC cables for the Chord Mscaler and Blu MkII. With these, I'm definitely more skeptical but I have been proven wrong many times when it comes to audio...


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Each to their own, live and let live. I've been working for ages in safety critical systems and doing this for a hobby. What really pisses me off is the mechanical quality of the stock 1266 cables. The connector is too long and the bast fibre dielectric in combination with the outer shell is way to hard. It feels like a crappy rg59


----------



## littlej0e (Apr 23, 2021)

Tarttett said:


> It would not be required to be able to understand what occurs within the human brain, to be able to know of whether or not different cables produce an effect for the physical sound.


That is exactly my point. A holistic understanding of synesthesia isn't necessary required to verify that it, or it's effects, exist. Being able to quantify and/or measure those effects are indeed a problem, but that doesn’t invalidate that the condition exists in the first place. The mere existence of the condition validates that audio can affect people in myriad of different ways. So why then would cables, or any other audio components, be excluded from this poorly understood truth?

I personally feel that measurements are useful for what they are - a data point. But I don't think they should be used as the primary criteria for purchasing audio gear. Measurements are nothing more than gravy on an already well grilled steak and should be treated as such.


----------



## ra990 (Apr 23, 2021)

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Each to their own, live and let live. I've been working for ages in safety critical systems and doing this for a hobby. What really pisses me off is the mechanical quality of the stock 1266 cables. The connector is too long and the bast fibre dielectric in combination with the outer shell is way to hard. It feels like a crappy rg59


Agree, even though it might sound fine, the feel and ergonomics of the stock cable are really crappy (especially for a headphone made by a cable company). 

I have the same complaint with the Hifiman stock cables, too. It's almost like they assume everyone will purchase an upgraded cable so just include a crappy one to use as a backup only.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 23, 2021)

ctop said:


> +1
> Awesome cable...Enjoying mine from the Holo May to the Riviera AIC-10


I'm starting to get what you and @simorag are going for in terms of sonic signature, which - to me - seems like it would be the highest resolution possible but with warmth, lushness, depth, rich in harmonic overtones content, refinement and analog realism. I understand when people say something sounds "digital" compared to "analog" or "solid state" compared to "tubes", etc. I've certainly dealt with the same terms in the electric guitar world for many years.

I really got a taste of this with the SC RCA interconnects.  There wasn't one single metric that stood out above the incumbent cable I had been using but there were many different metrics or characteristics that I could hear and - _combined_ - the overall difference turned out to be quite significant. I used to think that the highest resolution, clarity, definition, and imaging had to mean that the overall sonic signature should be on the bright/cool/crisp side, not the dark/warm/smooth side because dark/warm is often associated with veiled and muddy.

It's kind of like autumn vs. spring. Both are really great when the weather is just right. Even winter can be lovely with the first fresh snowfall and summer can be divine as well if it's balmy tropical. I like to associate sonic character with the different seasons and their weather characteristics (and different geographical locations) for the kind of mood I'd like to take in while listening. The thing is I like them all although I will prefer one over the other depending on what I'm listening to and the mood I'm in. I think I'm still in the "autumn" camp for my personal taste but I'm finding the "spring" tonality more and more beguiling. And maybe it's also because I'm getting old now and my ears are changing.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ra990 said:


> Agree, even though it might sound fine, the feel and ergonomics of the stock cable are really crappy (especially for a headphone made by a cable company).


I've said it before, but I think that is very intentional


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

I usually tend to avoid metaphoric discussions like that because nothing good ever comes from it, but what the hell.



littlej0e said:


> That is exactly my point. A holistic understanding of synesthesia isn't necessary required to verify that it, or it's effects, exist.


or not (equally as viable according your statement). 


littlej0e said:


> Being able to quantify and/or measure those effects are the problem, but doesn’t invalidate that the condition exists in the first place



I don't see the "problem" there. It certainly would be nice to have a quantifiable set of values, a benchmark. Finding the right markers is a problem, at least for the hifi community, not so much for content creators. Just imagine a common sensical scale of fidelity and a possible contradicting scale of preference. That would be nice, wouldn't it?


littlej0e said:


> The mere existence of the condition validates that audio can affect people in myriad of different ways.


That's that kind of ex falso quodlibet statement. 



littlej0e said:


> So why then would cables, or any other audio components, be excluded from this poorly understood truth?


You shouldn't inherently exclude that kind of argument, I agree. But as soon as you gain quantifiable truth, you should reconsider your point of view.



littlej0e said:


> I personally feel that measurements are useful for what they are - a data point. But I don't think they should be used as the primary criteria for purchasing audio gear. Measurements are nothing more than gravy on an already well grilled steak and should be treated as such.



I agree. The primary criteria should be your feeling about the corresponding product. Deriving that is a multivariable decision process with fidelity being one aspect. There are many others equally as viable for you. If I would follow your analogy, I'd rather see measurements as thermometer in my steak, verifying that it's not all ****ed up.


----------



## littlej0e

Ciggavelli said:


> I've said it before, but I think that is very intentional



Conspiracy confirmed?


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

ra990 said:


> Agree, even though it might sound fine, the feel and ergonomics of the stock cable are really crappy (especially for a headphone made by a cable company).
> 
> I have the same complaint with the Hifiman stock cables, too. It's almost like they assume everyone will purchase an upgraded cable so just include a crappy one to use as a backup only.


Totally agree, Hifiman cables are equally as bad. From a value perspective that's insane given the retail price and companies should be called out on that.


----------



## JLoud

I think we can all agree Hifiman cables are the worst considering price of the headphones. At least they are moving on from the medical tubing that came with my HE6SE.


----------



## Ciggavelli

100% agree that the Susvara cables are the worst.  They shouldn't have even thrown them in the box.  Some amps don't include power cords, as they assume you'll be using a aftermarket cable.  Perhaps HiFiMan should do that as well


----------



## jlbrach

always good to have something to use until you get a proper cable...kind of like the 3 dollar cables some high end DAC's will provide


----------



## Orlok

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Totally agree, Hifiman cables are equally as bad. From a value perspective that's insane given the retail price and companies should be called out on that.


It's why the Susvara will remain out of my reach for a while. I look at it as a $7K headphone minimum.


----------



## JLoud

The way you jumped into this hobby that means like what, couple weeks. 🤣


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Ciggavelli said:


> 100% agree that the Susvara cables are the worst.  They shouldn't have even thrown them in the box.  Some amps don't include power cords, as they assume you'll be using a aftermarket cable.  Perhaps HiFiMan should do that as well


That is one way to look at it. The other way would be to add a decent 10$ cable when selling a 6000$ headphone. Same thing for Abyss and Focal. I guess the problem is that the TOTL series and their customers - which I am a part of - are so deranged from reality that they don't even care. Fundamentally I think that's wrong


----------



## spacelion2077

Is Susvara worth getting at this point? It's over 10 years old, Hifiman still hasn't lowered its price.  The reviews on youtube don't have much favorable thing to say about it


----------



## Ciggavelli

Orlok said:


> It's why the Susvara will remain out of my reach for a while. I look at it as a $7K headphone minimum.


You can get it new for around $4200 from your dealer (maybe less).  You can then get a Cardas Clear cable for like $800 (which pairs well with the Susvaras).  
The dealer markup is outrageous


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

spacelion2077 said:


> Is Susvara worth getting at this point? It's over 10 years old, Hifiman still hasn't lowered its price.  The reviews on youtube don't have much favorable thing to say about it


It's nearly 4 years old and I think the consensus is that it is a great headphone


----------



## ra990

spacelion2077 said:


> Is Susvara worth getting at this point? It's over 10 years old, Hifiman still hasn't lowered its price.  The reviews on youtube don't have much favorable thing to say about it


I have a hard time deciding which is the better headphone, Susvara or Abyss, so yes, definitely worth considering.


----------



## Ciggavelli

spacelion2077 said:


> Is Susvara worth getting at this point? It's over 10 years old, Hifiman still hasn't lowered its price.  The reviews on youtube don't have much favorable thing to say about it


100% yes, but it takes months to fully appreciate.  Like half a year.  I dunno why, but others have noticed that too


----------



## littlej0e (Apr 23, 2021)

DuncanDirkDick said:


> I usually tend to avoid metaphoric discussions like that because nothing good ever comes from it, but what the hell.


This is somewhat metaphorical, but not as metaphorical as you implied. Synesthesia is directly related to how people perceive audio and I think it's more than relevant.



DuncanDirkDick said:


> or not (equally as viable according your statement).


This is exactly my point. Direct measurements are very difficult, but the resulting effects are still there. Incomplete information, i.e. conjecture, should equal possibility not certainty. 


DuncanDirkDick said:


> I don't see the "problem" there. It certainly would be nice to have a quantifiable set of values, a benchmark. Finding the right markers is a problem, at least for the hifi community, not so much for content creators. Just imagine a common sensical scale of fidelity and a possible contradicting scale of preference. That would be nice, wouldn't it?


The problem is as-of-yet unquantifiable data and therefore a scientifically unproven result. Hence the debate rages on...



DuncanDirkDick said:


> That's that kind of ex falso quodlibet statement.


I'm not even sure what that means, so I'll have to google it. WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY ABOUT MY MOTHER?!? 


DuncanDirkDick said:


> You shouldn't inherently exclude that kind of argument, I agree. But as soon as you gain quantifiable truth, you should reconsider your point of view.


Again, that is exactly my point. Incomplete data and inconclusive results equal an uncertain conclusion, so why exclude data in the first place? It makes no logical or scientific sense. Seeing as there isn't necessarily a quantifiable truth in this instance I see no reason to exclude audible differences in cables or components from the realm of possibility.


DuncanDirkDick said:


> I agree. The primary criteria should be your feeling about the corresponding product. Deriving that is a multivariable decision process with fidelity being one aspect. There are many others equally as viable for you. If I would follow your analogy, I'd rather see measurements as thermometer in my steak, verifying that it's not all ****ed up.


I couldn't have said it better myself. The thermometer in the steak may serve as a good data point prior to consumption, but has no (or extremely little) bearing on when or why you ordered it in the first place.


----------



## ra990

Ciggavelli said:


> 100% yes, but it takes months to fully appreciate.  Like half a year.  I dunno why, but others have noticed that too


It does take some time to appreciate it because it's does nuance and timbre so well. It's not one of those you put on and are blown away immediately, like the Abyss. But you keep noticing how great it sounds more and more with every listen. It depends entirely on my mood which one I'll reach for, they're both on equal standing for me.


----------



## Orlok

JLoud said:


> The way you jumped into this hobby that means like what, couple weeks. 🤣


Haha. Well, I had been a slow lurker for a while. I guess my first foray into audiophile territory was back in 2015 or so when I got the HD800S with the Hugo and the JH Audio Layla CIEM with the Mojo. And then I tried the LCD-3, added the LCDi4 and then this addiction really took off last year after I got the LCD-4. Now I've crossed the Rubicon or the Event Horizon. No going back now!


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

littlej0e said:


> This is somewhat metaphorical, but not as metaphorical as you implied. Synesthesia is directly related to how people perceive audio and I think it's more than relevant.


That's called psychoacoustics, lets get the definitions straight



littlej0e said:


> The problem is as-of-yet unquantifiable data and therefore a scientifically unproven result. Hence the debate rages on...


Well, there is 90 years worth of research behind it, so we should get specific



littlej0e said:


> I'm not even sure what that means, so I'll have to google it. WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY ABOUT MY MOTHER?!?


It's called an education  Sorry for that pun



littlej0e said:


> Again, that is exactly my point. Incomplete data and inconclusive results equal an uncertain conclusion, so why exclude data in the first place? It makes no logical or scientific sense. Seeing as there isn't necessarily a quantifiable truth in this instance I see no reason to exclude audible differences in cables or components from the realm of possibility.


Yes, I think we are on the same track. As soon as something is reasonably viable scientifically speaking we should take it as truth just to get on


littlej0e said:


> The thermometer in the steak may serve as a good data point prior to consumption, but has no (or extremely little) bearing on when or why you ordered it in the first place.


Yes and no. If you buy your steak cooked at 400 degrees for an hour over and over again you might find a pattern there why it tastes like crap.

I'm sure that there is a quantifiable metric for a specific person in regards to perceived fidelity. If that metric is transferable is another question.


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> You can get it new for around $4200 from your dealer (maybe less).  You can then get a Cardas Clear cable for like $800 (which pairs well with the Susvaras).
> The dealer markup is outrageous


I'm sure I'll get it eventually and I'll be sure to shop around. I liked it a lot when I had it loaned to me but I didn't have a way to drive it properly so I haven't heard what it is fully capable of. For now, I'm extremely happy with the TC and I'm focused on getting the best out of it for the foreseeable future - optimizing what I have now and getting the ideal amp partner eventually. So it's still ways off. Between the TC, SR1a and the LCD-4, I feel like I can cover all the genres I listen to and the different moods extremely well. I'm more interested in amps right now.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Orlok said:


> I'm sure I'll get it eventually and I'll be sure to shop around. I liked it a lot when I had it loaned to me but I didn't have a way to drive it properly so I haven't heard what it is fully capable of. For now, I'm extremely happy with the TC and I'm focused on getting the best out of it for the foreseeable future - optimizing what I have now and getting the ideal amp partner eventually. So it's still ways off. Between the TC, SR1a and the LCD-4, I feel like I can cover all the genres I listen to and the different moods extremely well. I'm more interested in amps right now.


The WA33 is calling you


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> The WA33 is calling you


Yes, it sure has. I've already looked at the proper audio rack/stand for it. lol


----------



## littlej0e (Apr 23, 2021)

DuncanDirkDick said:


> That's called psychoacoustics, lets get the definitions straight


Understood. Sorry for not using the Triple D-approved terminology to make a point that was already fairly clear in the first place?!?



DuncanDirkDick said:


> Well, there is 90 years worth of research behind it, so we should get specific


90 years of research doesn't necessarily equal a conclusion. Otherwise this debate would have been settled long ago. I really can't wait until it is...



DuncanDirkDick said:


> It's called an education  Sorry for that pun


And here I thought this entire back and fourth was nothing more than largely pointless, overly pedantic and argumentative banter. Who knew?!?



DuncanDirkDick said:


> Yes and no. If you buy your steak cooked at 400 degrees for an hour over and over again you might find a pattern there why it tastes like crap.


Which again proves my point. It should be used as a data point, but not necessarily the primary reason to buy something in the first place. I didn't say measurements aren't useful. I actually went out of my way to say the exact opposite.



DuncanDirkDick said:


> I'm sure that there is a quantifiable metric for a specific person in regards to perceived fidelity. If that metric is transferable is another question.



Audio fidelity seems incredibly subjective and almost impossible to reliably define, let alone test and repeat in a controlled manner. I'm would love to see a reliably quantifiable metric. I agree that even if we somehow figured out how to measure it results would likely still be highly variable from person to person.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Orlok said:


> Yes, it sure has. I've already looked at the proper audio rack/stand for it. lol


What rack?  My s**t is totally utilitarian.  I need a suitable rack/stand.





F it but It works


----------



## littlej0e

Ciggavelli said:


> What rack?  My s**t is totally utilitarian.  I need a suitable rack/stand.
> 
> 
> F it but It works


Oh wow that gear is SO pretty... 

I actually made a custom panzerholz (extreme vibration dampening) rack if you want the details.


----------



## Ciggavelli

littlej0e said:


> Oh wow that gear is SO pretty...
> 
> I actually made a custom panzerholz (extreme vibration dampening) rack if you want the details.


Yes, I am definitely interested in that.  Thanks


----------



## littlej0e

Ciggavelli said:


> Yes, I am definitely interested in that.  Thanks


Ok, I’ll PM you in a few.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 23, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> What rack?  My s**t is totally utilitarian.  I need a suitable rack/stand.
> 
> 
> F it but It works


Well, you saw my system and that little keyboard stand I have next to the desk for the TToby and another amp and SR1a interface box. The WA33 would cause that stand to collapse. Haha. The office furniture I have is all $30~50 stuff I got from Amazon. The main desk is something my wife bought for $25 at a neighborhood garage sale many years for the kids and then I took it for myself and I'm still using it now. Yes, I fully agree the money for furniture can be better spent on more important things - like nice gear!


----------



## Ciggavelli

Orlok said:


> Well, you saw my system and that little keyboard stand I have next to the desk for the TToby and another amp and SR1a interface box. The WA33 would cause that stand to collapse. Haha. The office furniture I have is all $30~50 stuff I got from Amazon. The main desk is something my wife bought for $25 at a neighborhood garage sale many years ago she bought for the kids and then I took it for myself and I'm still using it now. Yes, I fully agree the money for furniture can be better spent on more important things - like nice gear!


Come to think of it, it's kinda crazy I have all that equipment on a standing desk and a makeshift shelf.  I guess you can tell my priorities


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> Come to think of it, it's kinda crazy I have all that equipment on a standing desk and a makeshift shelf.  I guess you can tell my priorities


Considering this Pangea rack in carbon vinyl. Each shelf can support up to 75lbs (300 total) so the WA33 wouldn't be a problem at the top shelf. I see a lot of people with Symposium racks for their setups so I looked it up. Well, if I had the money for one of those...


----------



## JLoud

I’m using a Pangea rack in carbon fiber wrap. And one in black.


----------



## Ciggavelli

JLoud said:


> I’m using a Pangea rack in carbon fiber wrap. And one in black.


That Blue BHSE with the matching blue notebook


----------



## Orlok

JLoud said:


> I’m using a Pangea rack in carbon fiber wrap. And one in black.


Nice. One would do it for me for the WA33 on top with plenty of room to add another amp - perhaps a SS or hybrid - down the line. I want a rack full of amps.


----------



## littlej0e

Ciggavelli said:


> Yes, I am definitely interested in that.  Thanks



Sent. Hope it helps.


----------



## JLoud

Ciggavelli said:


> That Blue BHSE with the matching blue notebook


My audio obsession requires color matching. Blue notebook for BHSE and silver for the Woo. 🤪


----------



## Stereolab42

Orlok said:


> Nice. One would do it for me for the WA33 on top with plenty of room to add another amp - perhaps a SS or hybrid - down the line. I want a rack full of amps.



I was randomly browsing Audiogon and came upon these amps and I immediately thought of you guys.. "there's gotta be somebody willing to speaker tap this into an Abyss":






Boulder 3050 monoblocks. MSRP $205k for the pair. Each one weighs 450 pounds. Each one requires a dedicated 240v line and provides 1500 watts RMS of pure class A power. (Yes, class A. 1500 watts. Class A.) Perfect amps for the evil genius who wants to both heat and provide sound for his underground lair in Antarctica. (Nuclear power reactor not included.)


----------



## littlej0e (Apr 23, 2021)

It occurred to me that others may benefit from this so I thought I’d post it. This is the semi-custom rack solution I went with for my audio setup.

Equipment Rack 
1 x Raybee Garage Shelf Rack: https://www.amazon.com/Raybee-Shelv...=black+rack+heavy+duty&qid=1615923708&sr=8-81 
This is a very sturdy, versatile, and affordable solution. It also has “drop in” shelves that are incredibly easy to upgrade with the material of your choice (I would highly recommend doing so as the stock shelves are very thin, supposedly-sheet-metal, A.K.A. crap). Shelf heights are fully adjustable, and the shelves can safely hold up to 180kg (400lbs) and costs about 1/10th of what an “audiophile” rack does (cost me $99 from Amazon).

1 x Sheet Custom Panzerholz Shelving: http://bkbindustrial.com (US/Canada fulfillment partner for https://www.delignit.de)
The acoustic vibration dampening properties of Panzerholz are nothing short of astounding. I doubt you will find anything that performs better in, or likely far above, this price range. I ordered one sheet of Panzerholz cut into five 800mm x 400mm x 25mm (31.5in x 15.75in x 1in) shelves shipped in two separate shipments via UPS.

Notes:

Sold in single 2130mm x 1000mm (84in x 40in) sheets in 22mm or 25mm (.86in x 1in) thickness that can be cut to spec for a small additional fee.
I paid $898.00 shipped to Colorado and roughly 40% of the cost was shipping. This stuff is stupidly, ridiculously heavy. It was originally created for use as bulletproof armor plating for German tanks in WW II. Yep.
The full weight of my rack with the Panzerholz shelves and all components is approx. 150kg (330 lbs).
Taiko Audio sells much smaller “audiophile” Panzerholz platforms at 4-to-5 times the price. I felt the custom shelves were a more versatile and far more cost-effective solution, even though the Taiko platforms likely perform slightly better due to the additional engineering involved. However, I combined the shelves with IsoAcoustic pucks (https://isoacoustics.com/orea-series/) and I’d wager there is zero difference in performance at 1/4th of the price.
All in, this cost me almost exactly 1k.
Hope this helps someone.


----------



## Orlok

Stereolab42 said:


> I was randomly browsing Audiogon and came upon these amps and I immediately thought of you guys.. "there's gotta be somebody willing to speaker tap this into an Abyss":
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha. That is insane. I guess this is the audio world's equivalent of the billionaire's supercar, private jet or yacht. I'd imagine the best pairing with something like this would be one of these speakers?


----------



## Stereolab42

Orlok said:


> Haha. That is insane. I guess this is the audio world's equivalent of the billionaire's supercar, private jet or yacht. I'd imagine the best pairing with something like this would be one of these speakers?


The party doesn't start until you've got speakers that weigh 5 tons each. Now where did I put all my Dogecoin...


----------



## Roasty

littlej0e said:


> It occurred to me that others may benefit from this so I thought I’d post it. This is the semi-custom rack solution I went with for my audio setup.
> 
> Equipment Rack
> 1 x Raybee Garage Shelf Rack: https://www.amazon.com/Raybee-Shelv...=black+rack+heavy+duty&qid=1615923708&sr=8-81
> ...



That is a really sweet build. Well done man. Love the colour combo. Industrial chic. Love it!


----------



## Ciggavelli

Some Houston music for the TCs






It's rap, so you know, not "real" music or anything like that (  ), but it's got an amazing vibe (only on Qobuz)


----------



## qboogie

Just wondering if anyone has used the Superconductor cable with any other headphones (perhaps using adapters)?


----------



## Ciggavelli (Apr 24, 2021)

qboogie said:


> Just wondering if anyone has used the Superconductor cable with any other headphones (perhaps using adapters)?


Yes, I have adapters for the Susvara, HD800S and the Utopias and LCD-4 (still waiting on those two headphones to finally arrive   )

The SC with the Susvaras wasn’t as good as the Cardas Clear hp cables, in my opinion, but I haven’t tried them recently. The SC on the HD800s is definitely a big improvement over stock. But using a $2.5K cable on a $1600 pair of headphones is absurd 

Here’s what some of them look like:



Sean’s ebay store AffinityAdapters is great. He has adapters for everything and takes custom orders 

https://www.ebay.com/usr/affinityadapters


----------



## number1sixerfan

Orlok said:


> Nice. One would do it for me for the WA33 on top with plenty of room to add another amp - perhaps a SS or hybrid - down the line. I want a rack full of amps.



I have the same rack, just with different spacing for the shelves for my vinyl setup. The bottom shelf fits the WA33 (tubes and everything) just perfectly.. used it for preamp duty for a bit. I also had it on top of it at one point and it just looked a bit weird with how big it was lol 
https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-Vulcan-Turntable-Storage/dp/B07B5HR9D9

Either way, very high quality rack for the price.


----------



## Orlok

number1sixerfan said:


> I have the same rack, just with different spacing for the shelves for my vinyl setup. The bottom shelf fits the WA33 (tubes and everything) just perfectly.. used it for preamp duty for a bit. I also had it on top of it at one point and it just looked a bit weird with how big it was lol
> https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-Vulcan-Turntable-Storage/dp/B07B5HR9D9
> 
> Either way, very high quality rack for the price.


I may have to consider this but I'd probably want to add another level at top and I can keep the headphones on the stands there. It's good to know that the rack is expandable and be configured as needed. At the same time, all those glowing tubes at the top would look pretty cool in the dark.


----------



## Solan

Orlok said:


> Based on your reviews and comments, it seems you lean a bit towards the warm and lush side of the tonal spectrum while maintaining the the highest resolution possible. I think I lean a little more towards the analytical, bright and cool side and I've always been like that with guitar tones as well  [...] Of course, I want body in the mids and firm and defined lows as well but my general preference is for something on the bright/cool side over dark/warm.


Just a dumb question: are we choosing between multi-kilodollar amps based on what are essentially hardwired EQ settings? Why not just get a damn flat FR amp with enough power, and then EQ it with an actual adjustable EQ?


----------



## Solan

Orlok said:


> Yeah, his review productions have become quite slick. I don't think it's possible for one reviewer's tastes to be even 90% aligned with anyone else's. Everyone has their own tastes and preferences and hears things in a certain way. I'd say I can agree with Joshua's assessments around 70% of the time with headphones that I have tried so his words do have some weight _to me_ but certainly not all. And then there are some reviewers whose tastes don't seem to align with mine at all so I just don't bother with their reviews. I will add that I agree with Joshua on the TC and LCD-4!


I noticed Joshua found the 789 to be a great amp for the 1266, despite it not being multi-kilodollar.


----------



## Orlok

Solan said:


> Just a dumb question: are we choosing between multi-kilodollar amps based on what are essentially hardwired EQ settings? Why not just get a damn flat FR amp with enough power, and then EQ it with an actual adjustable EQ?


It really isn't that simple. I can speak from having owned and tested hundreds of guitar amplifiers as a guitar player and EQs cannot make them sound like each other. It's the same with these HP and speaker amps and that is why so many different kinds exist at many different price points.


----------



## Solan

paradoxper said:


> Can we maybe argue why RAP isn't music instead.


Why argue? It isn't. Discussion finished.


----------



## Solan

spacelion2077 said:


> I don't know about anyone. I have some expensive cans and less costly ones and sure there are some guys like me who also appreciate a good Hd800s and LCDX.  More expensive headphones don't necessarily mean they can deliver better sonic enjoyment. At some point, we will come to realize that they are all unique and offer different presentation.
> 
> There is a discussion on ASR lately that different cables used on the same headphone measures absolutely the same. You can argue that some aspects of audio can't be measured but again there is the argument that if there is a perceivable audible difference, then how come it can't be measured.  What you want to get out out of is up to your own personal belief.  And I believe my ears more than measurement number and price tag. In this specific case, with JPS return policy in mind.  I can't recommend superconductor cable to those who are seeking to improve the sound of AB 1266 TC. You will get more out of it if you invest the same amount of money on an amp.


Same goes for an amp. If the signal out is identical, then no amount of "subjectivity" will be able to make a difference, since the subjectivity does not bypass the headphones (if it did, our hobby would be truly cheap!). 

But what would be interesting, would be if they measured not just the output of the amp into nothing, but measured the actual signal as it was played to a pair of (for instance) 1266! These would be the relevant measurements! And they would be different from the signal as played into nothing, for obvious reasons. Maybe not enough to make a difference, or maybe enough. Has anyone actually measured it in this way?


----------



## paradoxper

Solan said:


> Why argue? It isn't. Discussion finished.


Arguing is much more fun than declarative truths.


----------



## Solan

mammal said:


> Oh yeah for sure, I would also like to add, that over time my preferences change and I lust after different things. At first, I wanted an Audeze for its bass response (days of LCD2/3), just later to learn (by doing) that I much more prefer soundstage representation (like Arya), which then followed up with "I need resolution". Yet, when my friends offer me a glass of whiskey to A/B, I cannot tell the difference, as both burn my mouth too much. I could never consider spending $1000 for a bottle, yet I totally respect and love how excited they are about their purchases, even if I am not capable of enjoying them.


Did you remember to mix in some water for flavour? Makes a huge difference.


----------



## Solan

littlej0e said:


> That is exactly my point. A holistic understanding of synesthesia isn't necessary required to verify that it, or it's effects, exist. Being able to quantify and/or measure those effects are indeed a problem, but that doesn’t invalidate that the condition exists in the first place. The mere existence of the condition validates that audio can affect people in myriad of different ways. So why then would cables, or any other audio components, be excluded from this poorly understood truth?
> 
> I personally feel that measurements are useful for what they are - a data point. But I don't think they should be used as the primary criteria for purchasing audio gear. Measurements are nothing more than gravy on an already well grilled steak and should be treated as such.


Synesthesia would affect what we hear by the other senses being brought into play. I have noticed this most effectively when playing picture disk LPs. The sound with eyes closed does not differ, but when I look at the spinning picture LP, the sound seems fuller and deeper. All created from the eyes, not from the LP-->> sound chain itself.


----------



## Solan

Stereolab42 said:


> I was randomly browsing Audiogon and came upon these amps and I immediately thought of you guys.. "there's gotta be somebody willing to speaker tap this into an Abyss":
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I suddenly got this uncontrollable urge to be an evil scientist with an Antarctic underground lair!


----------



## Ciggavelli

So, somebody was asking about using the SC on different headphones.  I previously wrote that I preferred the Cardas Clear with the Susvaras.  I just tried the Susvaras again with the SC.  I need to listen for a little longer, but the SC increases the bass quantity on the Susvaras, but I think it slightly narrows the sound stage. I'll investigate more


----------



## MatW

Ciggavelli said:


> So, somebody was asking about using the SC on different headphones.  I previously wrote that I preferred the Cardas Clear with the Susvaras.  I just tried the Susvaras again with the SC.  I need to listen for a little longer, but the SC increases the bass quantity on the Susvaras, but I think it slightly narrows the sound stage. I'll investigate more


I hope to receive SC next week and sent a message to Sean for the adapters... Would be great to try it with all my headphones..


----------



## Ciggavelli

MatW said:


> I hope to receive SC next week and sent a message to Sean for the adapters... Would be great to try it with all my headphones..


I was just listening to this with the SC and Susvaras, and it sounded amazing. 







Super, super


----------



## Ciggavelli

Ciggavelli said:


> So, somebody was asking about using the SC on different headphones.  I previously wrote that I preferred the Cardas Clear with the Susvaras.  I just tried the Susvaras again with the SC.  I need to listen for a little longer, but the SC increases the bass quantity on the Susvaras, but I think it slightly narrows the sound stage. I'll investigate more


So, I've done some more listening, and I'm back to square one.  I prefer the Cardas Clear to the SC on the Susvaras 🤷‍♂️


----------



## DJJEZ

Orlok said:


> I was just listening to this with the SC and Susvaras, and it sounded amazing.





Ciggavelli said:


> Super, super


Just had a listen to some of their music. Damn that is dark stuff lol


----------



## Ciggavelli

DJJEZ said:


> Just had a listen to some of their music. Damn that is dark stuff lol


They have a video on YouTube called "Black Mass Krakow."  It's so blasphemous I can't even post the video here.  But, if you're interested, it's by far the darkest concert I've ever been to or have watched.  It's crazy


----------



## ra990 (Apr 24, 2021)

I decided to try the 1/4" out of the TT2 with the Abyss and after volume matching with XLR/balanced outs - I have to admit it, it didn't leave me wanting anything more. The bass was there, slam was there, and the clarity and transparency was undeniable. I had never seriously given the TT2 SE out a chance with the Abyss, because I have to set the volume really high to reach my desired listening levels, but there's nothing wrong with doing that; it's more a mental reservation I have to "leave headroom" and other misconceptions about volumes. Yes, I had the volume higher than I ever have, but there was no sense of anything lacking at all at those levels. So just wanted to confirm, as @Rob Watts has suggested, that the TT2's single ended outs are capable of driving the Abyss just fine. If you do need more headroom for anything with a huge dynamic range, you can use XLR balanced outs.

On to the Etude...There is a little bit of increased bass quantity, I feel, from driving the Abyss out of the Etude, but the difference isn't huge by any means. Unless I'm A/B'ing and looking for it, I don't notice it. I am not noticing anything in terms of sound stage being expanded or anything like others have found where it expands when being driven from the speaker amp. I have my selected binaural playlist I use for evaluating soundstage and it still sounds best out of the TT2 directly. Bass is the only thing I'm noticing being increased and, again, I need to really listen for it to notice. This is a stark contrast from the Susvara, where differences in driving it from the Etude are pretty obvious.

Will post more as I listen...


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## jlbrach

I have a cardas clear that I bought originally for an lcd-4 and bought an adaptor for the susvara and I agree it works very well...I go back and forth between the cardas and a danacable reference with the susvara


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## Orlok

ra990 said:


> I decided to try the 1/4" out of the TT2 with the Abyss and after volume matching with XLR/balanced outs - I have to admit it, it didn't leave me wanting anything more. The bass was there, slam was there, and the clarity and transparency was undeniable. I had never seriously given the TT2 SE out a chance with the Abyss, because I have to set the volume really high to reach my desired listening levels, but there's nothing wrong with doing that; it's more a mental reservation I have to "leave headroom" and other misconceptions about volumes. Yes, I had the volume higher than I ever have, but there was no sense of anything lacking at all at those levels. So just wanted to confirm, as @Rob Watts has suggested, that the TT2's single ended outs are capable of driving the Abyss just fine. If you do need more headroom for anything with a huge dynamic range, you can use XLR balanced outs.
> 
> On to the Etude...There is a little bit of increased bass quantity, I feel, from driving the Abyss out of the Etude, but the difference isn't huge by any means. Unless I'm A/B'ing and looking for it, I don't notice it. I am not noticing anything in terms of sound stage being expanded or anything like others have found where it expands when being driven from the speaker amp. I have my selected binaural playlist I use for evaluating soundstage and it still sounds best out of the TT2 directly. Bass is the only thing I'm noticing being increased and, again, I need to really listen for it to notice. This is a stark contrast from the Susvara, where differences in driving it from the Etude are pretty obvious.
> 
> Will post more as I listen...


That's interesting. I've been going back and forth between the TToby's speaker taps and the TT2's SE output and the TC doesn't even sound like the same headphone. The TToby - to my ears - has a soundstage that is vastly bigger with much more bass response, even with the TToby's volume set lower than the TT2's SE out. I have tried the volume level on both TT2's SE and XLR outs at uncomfortably loud levels for me (90~95dB) and the TC sounds really good through both but the TToby's speaker outs - to me and at even lower volume levels - just sounds much bigger, wider and with greater depth. With the SE, the soundstage width seems to be something like between 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock but with the TToby, it's like 7 o'clock and 5 o'clock as if the sounds are extending to my shoulders below my ears. Well, that's how I'm hearing it...


----------



## Ciggavelli

I wonder if these different opinions of speaker amps are related to some third variables. Maybe the genres listened to account for some of the differences?  Maybe cabling too.  Also, maybe there are fundamental differences between the TToby and the Etude?  

I do like reading both of your impressions. It’s an interesting topic of discussion


----------



## ra990

Orlok said:


> That's interesting. I've been going back and forth between the TToby's speaker taps and the TT2's SE output and the TC doesn't even sound like the same headphone. The TToby - to my ears - has a soundstage that is vastly bigger with much more bass response, even with the TToby's volume set lower than the TT2's SE out. I have tried the volume level on both TT2's SE and XLR outs at uncomfortably loud levels for me (90~95dB) and the TC sounds really good through both but the TToby's speaker outs - to me and at even lower volume levels - just sounds much bigger, wider and with greater depth. With the SE, the soundstage width seems to be something like between 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock but with the TToby, it's like 7 o'clock and 5 o'clock as if the sounds are extending to my shoulders below my ears. Well, that's how I'm hearing it...


I'm not disputing what you're hearing, I wish I heard the same! Could certainly be a difference between the TToby and the Etude, but I will keep listening and updating my impressions. I don't know how you keep track of how wide or accurate the soundstage is, since it's probably one of the more difficult things to discern. I find how tense I am from the day, my ear/sinus pressure, and how loud I've been listening greatly impact my perception of soundstage from the same setup night to night. I need to spend more time with the Etude and the Abyss to see what I hear consistently vs what I can attribute to all these other factors.


----------



## Orlok

ra990 said:


> I'm not disputing what you're hearing, I wish I heard the same! Could certainly be a difference between the TToby and the Etude, but I will keep listening and updating my impressions. I don't know how you keep track of how wide or accurate the soundstage is, since it's probably one of the more difficult things to discern. I find how tense I am from the day, my ear/sinus pressure, and how loud I've been listening greatly impact my perception of soundstage from the same setup night to night. I need to spend more time with the Etude and the Abyss to see what I hear consistently vs what I can attribute to all these other factors.


Oh, I didn't at all take your impression as disputing what I'm hearing - just that it's quite different from mine. Yes, describing soundstage is quite difficult and it does seem that people have different perceptions of it. I read a review of the SR1a stating how huge the soundstage is and that it's "speaker-like" but, honestly, I really don't hear the SR1a as having a big soundstage. To me, the TC's soundstage (as well as the HD800S's) is much bigger in width, height and depth. I'm willing to bet soundstage is something that machines can't measure. Haha.

I did go back-and-forth with all kinds of different music - classical chamber music, singer-songwriter folk songs, ambient electronic, prog-metal, classic rock, jazz-rock fusion, death metal, EDM, symphonies, old/modern pop, and soundtracks - to make sure I was covering a wide ground. I do have an affinity for giant-sounding stuff like Hans Zimmer soundtracks, Wagner's operas, Bruckner/Mahler symphonies, Devin Townsend's wall-of-sound prog/pop metal, Armin van Buuren's EDM, Grimes' electronic synth pop, Pink Floyd's prog rock, Nils Frahm's neoclassical electronic, etc. so, _for me_, soundstage is a pretty big deal. I like to get totally immersed in sound coming from all directions and from afar as well as nearby. I want to feel like I'm drowning in a colossal 3D soundscape and I feel like I'm getting that with the TToby driving the TC. This kind of experience is not something I expect from the LCD-4 or even the SR1a. For me, they provide something totally different and in a very good way.


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## mammal

ra990 said:


> decided to try the 1/4" out of the TT2 with the Abyss and after volume matching with XLR/balanced outs


Can you teach me how to volume match? Do you do it by ear, or is there some other method I could use? Thanks!


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## ra990

mammal said:


> Can you teach me how to volume match? Do you do it by ear, or is there some other method I could use? Thanks!


If you have an iphone or android you can find a sound meter app. Hold your phone up to the earpad where your ear would be and measure approximate volume. Works best with some pink noise or something consistent in volume.


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## Orlok (Apr 25, 2021)

Continuing my son's indoctrination into the world of 1266 TC with the music of Grimes - the brilliant electronic avant-garde pop auteur who really is more than just the girlfriend of Elon Musk (and mother of his first child named X Æ A-Xii - yes, really!).


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## ra990

Another night of listening and, for me, the TT2 XLR outs are preferable to the Etude for the Abyss. As soon as I switched to the TT2 direct there was a nice layer of _nothing _between me and the music. It's what I found with the last amp I tried as well. The aspect I appreciate the most from the Abyss is the ability to hear deep into any mix, so I suspect this will always be the ideal combo _for me_. Amps may modify the sound to your preference but if transparency is your goal, then skip the amp and plug directly into the TT2. I would even use the SE out but I frequently work with my own music pre-mixing that has very low volume till boosted and I need the extra headroom XLR balanced offers.


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## Orlok (Apr 25, 2021)

ra990 said:


> Another night of listening and, for me, the TT2 XLR outs are preferable to the Etude for the Abyss. As soon as I switched to the TT2 direct there was a nice layer of _nothing _between me and the music. It's what I found with the last amp I tried as well. The aspect I appreciate the most from the Abyss is the ability to hear deep into any mix, so I suspect this will always be the ideal combo _for me_. Amps may modify the sound to your preference but if transparency is your goal, then skip the amp and plug directly into the TT2. I would even use the SE out but I frequently work with my own music pre-mixing that has very low volume till boosted and I need the extra headroom XLR balanced offers.


Totally get that we all have different tastes and listen for different things. Going back and forth between the TToby and TT2, I did notice that the TT2 is slightly more transparent - especially in the treble. It's a little more extended and silkier. The TToby has a little more "grit" and thickness which, _to me_, complements what I want to hear out of the TC. I spent a good deal of time with both TT2's SE and XLR outs and could easily be happy with both.

In fact, I was so happy with what I was hearing out of the TT2's XLRs that I had no interest in even trying the TToby's speaker taps. I expected to just try the TToby's speaker taps to say that I've at least tried it and go back to the XLRs. But, for me, that was not to be. The TToby just provides something for me that I really crave and like in terms of power, speed, energy, soundstage and just overall bigness that I don't think I quite get from the TT2 alone.

After doing more A/B today, I agree that the TT2 alone is a bit more transparent and "cleaner" sounding but, for me, the particular characteristics that TToby provides more than make up for that and I already feel like the JPS SC RCA interconnects provide those extra details I may have lost. And I still plan to get the JPS SC HP cable as well as optimizing the front-end (like the batteries you are using!) fairly soon so I know I can still improve things all-around. We all have our own paths and that's what makes this journey so interesting and fun.

And that's what I hope everyone who reads our posts get out of it too. You are just reading about different individuals' experiences who all have their own personal tastes and preferences. What works for me or someone else may not work out for you. We all have to find our own paths.


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## simorag (Apr 25, 2021)

Orlok said:


> [...] I read a review of the SR1a stating how huge the soundstage is and that it's "speaker-like" but, honestly, I really don't hear the SR1a as having a big soundstage. To me, the TC's soundstage (as well as the HD800S's) is much bigger in width, height and depth. I'm willing to bet soundstage is something that machines can't measure. Haha.


I had the same experience with the SR1a, with slight variations among the 10+ amplifiers I tested it with. Soundstage _size _is not especially big (wide, high, deep). Also, no traces of that frontal presentation that is typical of speakers. SR1a magic, when it comes to spatial cues, is - for me - about the nothingness between you and the music and about sound image 3D definition. Musical objects are like very realistic holograms placed in vacuum.
A technical wonder and assured wow-effect, but sometimes I perceived this trait also as a drawback, because of a weird feeling of disjointed presentation.



Orlok said:


> [...] I do have an affinity for giant-sounding stuff like Hans Zimmer soundtracks, Wagner's operas, Bruckner/Mahler symphonies, Devin Townsend's wall-of-sound prog/pop metal, Armin van Buuren's EDM, Grimes' electronic synth pop, Pink Floyd's prog rock, Nils Frahm's neoclassical electronic, etc. so, _for me_, soundstage is a pretty big deal. I like to get totally immersed in sound coming from all directions and from afar as well as nearby. I want to feel like I'm drowning in a colossal 3D soundscape and I feel like I'm getting that with the TToby driving the TC. This kind of experience is not something I expect from the LCD-4 or even the SR1a. For me, they provide something totally different and in a very good way.



If there is a single, very unique strength of the AB-1266 is how cinematic is the portrayal of musical soundscapes. The size, the cohesiveness and the atmospherics are unlike any other headphones I have tried (including Susvara), while keeping a distinct layering and precise imaging.

That, plus the capability of delivering very satisfying bass / sub-bass oomph sound waves make it a thrilling experience with large scale musical productions .


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## zenlisten (Apr 25, 2021)

mammal said:


> Can you teach me how to volume match? Do you do it by ear, or is there some other method I could use? Thanks!


When comparing the TT2's front SE and its XLR outs, you can check the volume on the display. The difference should be 6dB (e.g., if front SE is -5H then XLRs should be at -11H).



ra990 said:


> I decided to try the 1/4" out of the TT2 with the Abyss and after volume matching with XLR/balanced outs - I have to admit it, it didn't leave me wanting anything more. The bass was there, slam was there, and the clarity and transparency was undeniable. I had never seriously given the TT2 SE out a chance with the Abyss, because I have to set the volume really high to reach my desired listening levels, but there's nothing wrong with doing that; it's more a mental reservation I have to "leave headroom" and other misconceptions about volumes. Yes, I had the volume higher than I ever have, but there was no sense of anything lacking at all at those levels. So just wanted to confirm, as @Rob Watts has suggested, that the TT2's single ended outs are capable of driving the Abyss just fine. If you do need more headroom for anything with a huge dynamic range, you can use XLR balanced outs.
> 
> On to the Etude...There is a little bit of increased bass quantity, I feel, from driving the Abyss out of the Etude, but the difference isn't huge by any means. Unless I'm A/B'ing and looking for it, I don't notice it. I am not noticing anything in terms of sound stage being expanded or anything like others have found where it expands when being driven from the speaker amp. I have my selected binaural playlist I use for evaluating soundstage and it still sounds best out of the TT2 directly. Bass is the only thing I'm noticing being increased and, again, I need to really listen for it to notice. This is a stark contrast from the Susvara, where differences in driving it from the Etude are pretty obvious.
> 
> Will post more as I listen...


This was also my experience when compared the TT2 front SE and the Formula S. The soundstage is just as good. The bass directly from TT2 is tight, well defined and powerful, just like the Formula S's bass. And the TT2 directly has more transparency which I'm fond of. After two days of comparing in spite of my expectations the TT2 didn't leave me wanting anything more, just as you write. I am now happily settled with the TT2 until a more powerful successor of the DAVE arrives. 

An issue I see however is that some recordings have "unattractive" bass, both on the TT2 and on the Formula S. One example is The Prodigy albums, where the bass is powerful but it's not the punchy bass I remember from my college years, it's way too clear. I expected that the Formula S will make these recordings sound better but it sounded very similarly. So either the recording is poor, or this system is way too analytical? Fortunately, many other recordings have amazing bass, and I don't have this issue with the majority of my listenings (mainly classical, jazz and electronica), but I can still relate to those who expect a specific experience from their recordings.


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## Orlok (Apr 25, 2021)

simorag said:


> I had the same experience with the SR1a, with slight variations among the 10+ amplifiers I tested it with. Soundstage _size _is not especially big (wide, high, deep). Also, no traces of that frontal presentation that is typical of speakers. SR1a magic, when it comes to spatial cues, is - for me - about the nothingness between you and the music and about sound image 3D definition. Musical objects are like very realistic holograms placed in vacuum.
> A technical wonder and assured wow-effect, but sometimes I felt that this trait also as a drawback, because of a weird feeling of a disjointed presentation.
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I find the SR1a amazing every time I listen through it but, sometimes, it sounds even better than "real", if you get my drift. Is that a good thing or bad? Overall, I'm fine with that if I can enjoy that particular moment in time with that experience for what it is. I will disassociate myself from "real" and just listen to the unreal clarity and - especially - the _imaging_ it offers. It's a certain kind of wow effect that works amazingly well for some things (like a Mozart or Haydn symphony being performed by a small chamber orchestra) and not so well for, say, a Guns N' Roses song.

I wholly agree about the cinematic nature of the 1266 TC. What I find especially impressive is that the TC seems to have an ability to "morph", so to speak, to fit the various sonic soundscapes, moods, and environments of the musical genres and styles being played. I can go from something like Bach's 'Mass in B Minor' or Miles Davis' 'Kind of Blue' to Stevie Ray Vaughn's 'Texas Flood' or Metallica's 'Master of Puppets' in a heartbeat and they all sound fairly authentic and just "right", if not perfect. This aspect of the TC has wowed me more than anything else. I expected great resolution and cinematic soundstage but I did not expect it to also be able to get dirty, gritty, sweaty and throaty when required. Perhaps the TC is not the "perfect" HP for that kind of "lo-fi" vibe, which is why I was considering something like the ZMF Verite with some sort of midrange boutique-y tube amp but I have totally lost interest in that now. The TC can certainly get very "organic" and "rootsy" as well.

Of course, when it comes to large scale productions, the 1266 TC feels right at home and just takes over. It's like, "Get out of my way, little boy!" Haha. The way it handles bass and sub-bass is really fun to behold - so much authority and ease. The TC just takes the bass by the throat and whips it to its appropriate place in the soundscape and the bass cowers in fear. Haha. I just love the _control_ that the TC exerts over the bass frequencies. I'm not a bass head at all but the TC has really made me appreciate what role the bass plays in music - whether it's the pulsing kick drum, the double bass section in the orchestra, the electric bass guitar in modern rock/pop or the impossibly deep synth sub-bass in electronic. The bass quantity, quality and control really make me appreciate the TC's iconic (and often reviled) square metal frame.


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## simorag (Apr 25, 2021)

Orlok said:


> Yes, I find the SR1a amazing every time I listen through it but, sometimes, it sounds even better than "real", if you get my drift. Is that a good thing or bad? Overall, I'm fine with that if I can enjoy that particular moment in time with that experience for what it is. I will disassociate myself from "real" and just listen to the unreal clarity and - especially - the _imaging_ it offers. It's a certain kind of wow effect that works amazingly well for some things (like a Mozart or Haydn symphony being performed by a small chamber orchestra) and not so well for, say, a Guns N' Roses song.



With unlimited budget and, even more importantly in my case, space, I would have not parted from the SR1a, as it is a very, very special piece of audio gear. Paired with an amp bringing in some elasticity and a touch of warmth, like, say, a DarTZeel CTH8550 or, much cheaply, EQ'ed to my liking, it provided the best portrayal of small-to-middle-scale acoustic music I ever tried, exceeding in some aspects even what a 6 figures speaker set-up can achieve.
Ultimately, it was just the tendency of hyperrealism, overdefinition - like a sharpening filter over a photograph - together with some overall dryness and the lack of sub-bass oomph that got me to listen less and less to them.



Orlok said:


> What I find especially impressive is that the TC seems to have an ability to "morph", so to speak, to fit the various sonic soundscapes, moods, and environments of the musical genres and styles being played. I can go from something like Bach's 'Mass in B Minor' or Miles Davis' 'Kind of Blue' to Stevie Ray Vaughn's 'Texas Flood' or Metallica's 'Master of Puppets' in a heartbeat and they all sound fairly authentic and just "right", if not perfect. This aspect of the TC has wowed me more than anything else. I expected great resolution and cinematic soundstage but I did not expect it to also be able to get dirty, gritty, sweaty and throaty when required. Perhaps the TC is not the "perfect" HP for that kind of "lo-fi" vibe, which is why I was considering something like the ZMF Verite with some sort of midrange boutique-y tube amp but I have totally lost interest in that now. The TC can certainly get very "organic" and "rootsy" as well.



The TC are indeed a great all-rounder, especially within the right setup. Perhaps the only headphones even more versatile of the TC are the Susvara, which on a 0-10 scale score 9 or above on every possible technical parameter and music genre. But, the TC have more 10/10 on the things that are most important to me, and they have that very personal and subjective "X" factor that never get me tired of them.

That said, the TC are so relentless, ruthlessly resolving, open, that I find myself sometimes wanting some more midrange density, especially with thin sounding recordings, meatier, more emotional vocals and a less distantly projected sound, for which a complementary headphone becomes desirable, as you get from your LCD-4. I am trying out the Empyrean lately, and those sure fit that profile, although I am a bit uncertain about the amount of (the expected) trade-off, especially with dynamics viscerality, speed, low-level details retrieval.

I trust the Spirit Torino Valkyria I have on order will be up to the task.


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## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> I wonder if these different opinions of speaker amps are related to some third variables. Maybe the genres listened to account for some of the differences?  Maybe cabling too.  Also, maybe there are fundamental differences between the TToby and the Etude?
> 
> I do like reading both of your impressions. It’s an interesting topic of discussion


No. The difference you’re hearing is that they’re  different amps. Period.

What you’re saying is exactly the same thing as saying “I wonder if these different opinions of “headphones” are related to some third-party variables. Maybe the genres listened to account for some of the differences. “

Just replace headphones for amps in the statement and it will make more sense to you. Why would you expect all amp brands, or all amp types sound the same?

i’m sure there are speaker amps that don’t sound great with headphones either. You can’t just throw a lot of power in a headphone expected it to sound great. It’s more than power.


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## SuperBurrito

spacelion2077 said:


> I'm not really sure if everything can be measured.


Exactly.  Can you measure why a steak at one restaurant tastes better than a steak at another restaurant?

Can you measure why a DaVinci or Picasso painting is a million times better than a painting that I make?


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## Solan

SuperBurrito said:


> Exactly.  Can you measure why a steak at one restaurant tastes better than a steak at another restaurant?
> 
> Can you measure why a DaVinci or Picasso painting is a million times better than a painting that I make?



I em of the belief that everything in this game *can* be measured, but that we might not be making the right measurements. For instance when it comes to amps. Are we measuring the signal from the amp into simply an oscilloscope, or other neutral device, or are we measuring the signal *as* sent to and passing through a given set of headphones? It does us little good to know that an amp sends a signal with flat FR and no distortion to an oscilloscope, if it sends an un-flat, distorted signal when it actually matters, that is, when it is passing it through a headphone or a speaker. 

So there is the question of how the headphone affects the signal. *Affects*. Not merely how it _interprets _and_ renders_ it once it's out there, but as basically as how it _affects_ the signal it receives in the first place. This also mirrors back to the amp again: how _affectable_ is it?


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## JLoud

Important to remember how something measures can have very little effect on how much we enjoy it. Tubes generally create distortion and I like tubes. Many of the best measuring amps are too analytical to me. No one size fits all. Your ears are the best indicator. If your just listening for enjoyment then the specs don’t matter.


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## Solan

JLoud said:


> Important to remember how something measures can have very little effect on how much we enjoy it. Tubes generally create distortion and I like tubes. Many of the best measuring amps are too analytical to me. No one size fits all. Your ears are the best indicator. If your just listening for enjoyment then the specs don’t matter.



That *is* a different thing, though. If enjoyment does not equal low distortion, then measurement of distortion won't alone tell us the whole story of enjoyment. But we can measure to establish things like "warm", "sparkly", "soundstage" etc. Only afterwards comes the issue of how much we _appreciate_ each one of those measurable qualities. But that said, I think we in principle are able to measure even that, but then we'd need to hook up each individual to brain scanners and relate sonic measurements to appreciation values. So let's stick to the common objective qualities "warmth", "sparkiness", "soundstage" etc, and share those. If we have them. And I think measurements are a good way to go, since at the higher upper ends of gear, the placebo effect kicks in all too easily. At least it does for me.


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## paradoxper

“The ear is not a microphone, the brain is not a tape recorder, and measurements are limited in describing subjective quality. I like to have low distortion and so on, but these things take a back seat to what I experience when I listen. There are plenty of products which have great specs – I will not be offended if you buy those.” – Nelson Pass


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## number1sixerfan (Apr 25, 2021)

I've been comparing the Sr1a, Susvara, TC and 009 critically, almost for a week straight. I have a ton of notes typed up and will make more formal impressions, but just a few thoughts here. For starters, it can be really hard comparing the SR1a to the traditional cans, just want to mention that off the bat.

But as far as soundstage, there's far more to it than just width left to right, or depth from top to bottom. It's about the overall spacing and staging the headphone presents--if I were listening to a song being recorded in an intimate setting or to a small band on a stage with me just a few rows out and closed my eyes, where are all of the sounds coming from? And is that done correctly? Now this opens a huge can of worms because none of us can truly say how the music was intended to sound, or where each instrument and musician is positioned, etc. But all encompassing, yes, I think the SR1a has better staging than the TC. Actually by quite a bit. It also does this better than any other headphone. It just feels as if everything is placed exactly where it should be and truly immerses you into a concert/intimate setting as if you're there while it's being recorded or performed. To me, it's its greatest strength (actually one edit, it's clarity is it's greatest strength and for me, this aspect would be second).

That's not at all to say the SR1a is better than the TC, as there are other tradeoffs, and definitely if just talking width and depth as it's typically talked about on this site, then yes the TC is better imo.


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## jlbrach (Apr 25, 2021)

I agree,I think the sr1a presents music differently and IMHO more accurately than any other HP...a very special product..


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## paradoxper

number1sixerfan said:


> I've been comparing the Sr1a, Susvara, TC and 009 critically, almost for a week straight. I have a ton of notes typed up and will make more formal impressions, but just a few thoughts here. For starters, it can be really hard comparing the SR1a to the traditional cans, just want to mention that off the bat.
> 
> But as far as soundstage, there's far more to it than just width left to right, or depth from top to bottom. It's about the overall spacing and staging the headphone presents--if I were listening to a song being recorded in an intimate setting or to a small band on a stage with me just a few rows out and closed my eyes, where are all of the sounds coming from? And is that done correctly? Now this opens a huge can of worms because none of us can truly say how the music was intended to sound, or where each instrument and musician is positioned, etc. But all encompassing, yes, I think the SR1a has better staging than the TC. Actually by quite a bit. It also does this better than any other headphone. It just feels as if everything is placed exactly where it should be and truly immerses you into a concert/intimate setting as if you're there while it's being recorded or performed. To me, it's its greatest strength (actually one edit, it's clarity is it's greatest strength and for me, this aspect would be second).
> 
> That's not at all to say the SR1a is better than the TC, as there are other tradeoffs, and definitely if just talking width and depth as it's typically talked about on this site, then yes the TC is better imo.


Now you need Justin's RAAL converter or Kevin's Uberamp to match the BHSE. Unless you are going DIY T2.


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## number1sixerfan

paradoxper said:


> Now you need Justin's RAAL converter or Kevin's Uberamp to match the BHSE. Unless you are going DIY T2.



I wish you would stop, I can't afford anything else lol. No but seriously, I do like the HSA-1b, but I can tell that the Raal probably will do better with a really good speaker amp. I really didn't have much desire to play with that with the TC/Susvara, but the Raal might force my hand strictly due to a few issues I have with the bass. Also didn't know Justin had a converter in the works or available. 

And I do think after the Shangri La Sr. gets here I'll be more inclined to upgrade on the electrostatic amp front.


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## paradoxper

number1sixerfan said:


> I wish you would stop, I can't afford anything else lol. No but seriously, I do like the HSA-1b, but I can tell that the Raal probably will do better with a really good speaker amp. I really didn't have much desire to play with that with the TC/Susvara, but the Raal might force my hand strictly due to a few issues I have with the bass. Also didn't know Justin had a converter in the works or available.
> 
> And I do think after the Shangri La Sr. gets here I'll be more inclined to upgrade on the electrostatic amp front.


LOL 
Don't worry. The mafia has a portable electrostatic amp route you can pursue instead.   

Your upgrades paths are looking murky. What to do!


----------



## vonBaron

jlbrach said:


> I agree,I think the sr1a presents music differently and IMHO more accurately than any other HP...a very special product..


Too bad that they don't have bass.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 25, 2021)

simorag said:


> With unlimited budget and, even more importantly in my case, space, I would have not parted from the SR1a, as it is a very, very special piece of audio gear. Paired with an amp bringing in some elasticity and a touch of warmth, like, say, a DarTZeel CTH8550 or, much cheaply, EQ'ed to my liking, it provided the best portrayal of small-to-middle-scale acoustic music I ever tried, exceeding in some aspects even what a 6 figures speaker set-up can achieve.
> Ultimately, it was just the tendency of hyperrealism, overdefinition - like a sharpening filter over a photograph - together with some overall dryness and the lack of sub-bass oomph that got me to listen less and less to them.
> 
> The TC are indeed a great all-rounder, especially within the right setup. Perhaps the only headphones even more versatile of the TC are the Susvara, which on a 0-10 scale score 9 or above on every possible technical parameter and music genre. But, the TC have more 10/10 on the things that are most important to me, and they have that very personal and subjective "X" factor that never get me tired of them.
> ...


Yes, depending on what I'm listening to, the "hyperrealism" and "over-definition" I sense with the SR1a limits what I want to listen to. I mostly get that sense with vocals. The details I can hear make it sound like the singer's mouth - let's say Diana Krall's - is less than a feet away - like inches away from my ears, not in front of me. But if that was to be the "real" case, there would need to be two of her (with a clone, I guess) on each side of me singing in perfect sync. I can still enjoy it although the details can get rather explicit. Haha.

For me, it's for classical (which I listen to a lot) that I turn to pick up the SR1a. The way it can delineate the different instruments in an ensemble or orchestra and place them in specific locations so clearly and firmly is truly amazing and a real joy to savor.

The TC checks off a lot of the boxes with 10/10 for me when it comes to covering a wide range of genres but there are a few that are more like 8/10 or 9/10 and that's when I l turn to the SR1a or the LCD-4 and I'm sure the Susvara will be able fill those areas that I feel the TC is not the absolute best at. Agree on the "X" factor as well, which I believe is strictly a personal preference for tonality and the general feel and vibe that a headphone's sound exudes and/or projects. This is where both the TC and Susvara can be deemed to be 10/10 on something but one prefers one over the other.

I've certainly done my homework on the Empyrean and it used to be on my list but I don't really see it complementing what I have. The Susvara is the only one that makes sense to fit in nicely. But I have to admit I'm still curious and would love to try it. I think it would be nice to have at my work office to mate with my old original Hugo which is now used to feed a pair of Audioengine 5+ speakers. I get the sense it would be a good pairing - easy to drive and its dark tonality should match well with the Hugo's bright and analytical nature. And the Empy's comfort factor would be good for the office as well while I work away on spreadsheets.

I just went through the thread regarding the Spirit Torino Valkyria. That's high-end Italian alright! Looking forward to your detailed impressions!


----------



## jlbrach

I couldnt disagree more...the bass is outstanding and extremely accurate...it lacks the rumble and sub bass of the abyss but it doesnt lack bass


----------



## Orlok

For super deep sub-bass with an immersive downtempo, IDM, ambient techno and progressive trance kind of thing, this album from French music producer Aes Dana really plays to the strengths of the 1266 TC. It has the rumble that you can feel to your core. Highly recommended to experience the deepest sub-bass in a chilled ambient setting.


----------



## ra990

As much as I love the Abyss, when it comes to pure sonic quality of bass (not quantity or impact), the Susvara is better IMO. Abyss wins on soundstage, visceral impact, and transparency but the Susvara (when properly amped) takes your breath away in delivering laser accurate _low _reaching sub-bass. The Abyss can be tweaked by repositioning to increase or decrease the quantity of bass, but it cannot pull of the accuracy and quality of bass that the Susvara is capable off, _again IMO_. See this post if you have both and want to try a fun experiment to see if you agree.


----------



## Tachyon88 (Apr 25, 2021)

@Orlok Your music interest sound just like mine, but I'll add anime and game OST in addition. Some gems there that cross every genre you mentioned.

When I pull away the Diana V2 away from my ear the bass increases, just like my S400 does when I am near the back of my room. Does your room produce that low end boost on your S400 too and is that what the bass is like on the TC ? Because sometimes my speakers produce very nice impactful bass when near a wall in my room, to the point where sometimes I go "fuc". I'm wondering if that is basically the same effect the TC is doing too ?


----------



## Shahrose

number1sixerfan said:


> I've been comparing the Sr1a, Susvara, TC and 009 critically, almost for a week straight. I have a ton of notes typed up and will make more formal impressions, but just a few thoughts here. For starters, it can be really hard comparing the SR1a to the traditional cans, just want to mention that off the bat.
> 
> But as far as soundstage, there's far more to it than just width left to right, or depth from top to bottom. It's about the overall spacing and staging the headphone presents--if I were listening to a song being recorded in an intimate setting or to a small band on a stage with me just a few rows out and closed my eyes, where are all of the sounds coming from? And is that done correctly? Now this opens a huge can of worms because none of us can truly say how the music was intended to sound, or where each instrument and musician is positioned, etc. But all encompassing, yes, I think the SR1a has better staging than the TC. Actually by quite a bit. It also does this better than any other headphone. It just feels as if everything is placed exactly where it should be and truly immerses you into a concert/intimate setting as if you're there while it's being recorded or performed. To me, it's its greatest strength (actually one edit, it's clarity is it's greatest strength and for me, this aspect would be second).
> 
> That's not at all to say the SR1a is better than the TC, as there are other tradeoffs, and definitely if just talking width and depth as it's typically talked about on this site, then yes the TC is better imo.



This ^

The SR1a have a more realistic presentation as if the sounds are being produced by the instruments close to you rather than transducers. With the TC, I do get an expansive SS (sometimes larger than the SR1a) but I always know I'm listening to headphones, for various reasons related to its presentation. 

Changing gears a bit, where the TC truly wow me is their representation of bass and subbass. Clearly, they are a league apart from all other HPs. I've had to take off the headphones several times thinking my subwoofers were on. I really felt it in my upper chest with the TC...


----------



## Tachyon88

What the bass comparison of the TC compared with the TH900 to those that have heard both ?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Shahrose said:


> This ^
> 
> The SR1a have a more realistic presentation as if the sounds are being produced by the instruments close to you rather than transducers. With the TC, I do get an expansive SS (sometimes larger than the SR1a) but I always know I'm listening to headphones, for various reasons related to its presentation.
> 
> Changing gears a bit, where the TC truly wow me is their representation of bass and subbass. Clearly, they are a league apart from all other HPs. I've had to take off the headphones several times thinking my subwoofers were on. I really felt it in my upper chest with the TC...


The bass and sub-bass is amazing on the TCs. The only other headphones I’ve tried that can compare in the sub bass and impact of the TCs are the Fostex TH900mk2. The TCs are better for sure, but the th900mk2s can be played off a DragonFly and they’re closed back. So, the Fostex is a good travel  pair of headphones. I’m hoping a closed back Abyss headphone comes out soon (I.e, Closed back Diana)


----------



## Ciggavelli

Tachyon88 said:


> What the bass comparison of the TC compared with the TH900 to those that have heard both ?


I just posted about that right now...lol, synchronicity. 

Both the TCs and TH900s have amazing bass and impact


----------



## Shahrose

Ciggavelli said:


> The bass and sub-bass is amazing on the TCs. The only other headphones I’ve tried that can compare in the sub bass and impact of the TCs are the Fostex TH900mk2. The TCs are better for sure, but the th900mk2s can be played off a DragonFly and they’re closed back. So, the Fostex is a good travel  pair of headphones. I’m hoping a closed back Abyss headphone comes out soon (I.e, Closed back Diana)



I owned the Fostex TH900 (not mk2) and I remember them having some force and reach, but the bass quality of the TC is just in a different world. Not sure about the mk2.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Shahrose said:


> I owned the Fostex TH900 (not mk2) and I remember them having some force and reach, but the bass quality of the TC is just in a different world. Not sure about the mk2.


The mk2 is the same as the mk1, but has detachable cables.

I agree that the TCs are better, but the th900mk2s are the second best. Plus, they cost $1600 and can be driven off anything. They’re a great pair of headphones, especially if one doesn’t currently have the budget for the TCs and a powerful headphone amp. I also like that they are closed back.  🤷‍♂️ 

But, yeah, the TCs are definitely better


----------



## mammal

zenlisten said:


> When comparing the TT2's front SE and its XLR outs, you can check the volume on the display. The difference should be 6dB (e.g., if front SE is -5H then XLRs should be at -11H).


Oh really, I did not know TT2 has the numbers in 1 dB increments, thanks!


----------



## vonBaron

Tachyon88 said:


> What the bass comparison of the TC compared with the TH900 to those that have heard both ?


I own both, i terms of quantity the are similar but in quality TC are way better. TH-900 need proper AMP to control that Fostex bass.


----------



## 539465

Here to read mammals posts @mammal how is the 1266 treating you?


----------



## JLoud

Tachyon88 said:


> What the bass comparison of the TC compared with the TH900 to those that have heard both ?


Agreed with previous posts. The th900 being closed feels like more bass pressure. Not as fast or detailed, but it is my second favorite for bass heavy music. And as said it can be powered fairly easily. As with all things quality amplification matters, just don't need a high powered amp. And those cups a pretty. I have the Lawton museum quality ones.


----------



## vonBaron (Apr 26, 2021)

@JLoud why you have RAD-0 when you have TC and LCD-4? BTW how Lawton mod compare to stock?


----------



## JLoud

The Lawton mod tames the highs on the th900. I found they could be a little peaky at times. The cups are also a little bigger, seems to open up the soundstage a little.


----------



## JLoud

The Rad-0 is just a beautiful headphone. Easier to drive compared to the LCD-4 and probably more neutral compared to LCD-4. But I have been thinking of selling it as I really don't listen to it much. I bought it for a secondary system that I don't use anywhere near what I thought I would. Probably time to part with it and let someone else enjoy it. It really is a nice headphone.


----------



## mammal

ToniChopper said:


> Here to read mammals posts @mammal how is the 1266 treating you?


Heya Toni, long time no chat. I suppose my signature is misleading, as I am still waiting on AB-1266 to arrive. So far listening daily with Diana V2. Will be posting my impressions and comparison when AB-1266 arrives, hopefully mid-May.


----------



## DJJEZ

mammal said:


> Heya Toni, long time no chat. I suppose my signature is misleading, as I am still waiting on AB-1266 to arrive. So far listening daily with Diana V2. Will be posting my impressions and comparison when AB-1266 arrives, hopefully mid-May.


You ended up keeping the V2 then? Remember seeing your for sale post.


----------



## mammal

DJJEZ said:


> You ended up keeping the V2 then? Remember seeing your for sale post.


My dealer is just super awesome, he let me keep V2 until AB-1266 arrives, yet put full price against it so that I do not lose much money when upgrading. So will be fresh when comparing the two, but no, not keeping V2 after I get AB-1266.


----------



## DJJEZ

mammal said:


> My dealer is just super awesome, he let me keep V2 until AB-1266 arrives, yet put full price against it so that I do not lose much money when upgrading. So will be fresh when comparing the two, but no, not keeping V2 after I get AB-1266.


Amazing deal


----------



## simorag

Orlok said:


> I just went through the thread regarding the Spirit Torino Valkyria. That's high-end Italian alright! Looking forward to your detailed impressions!



Yesterday I received this teaser from Spirit Torino's factory. They are assembling the new batch, you can spot the #08/99 serial number, so guess what's coming next 


​
Of course I am waiting for them with increasing excitement in anticipation, but in the meanwhile I was listening to the album below with the TC, and the kick, the liveliness of the venue, the "X" factor at full display are making the wait extremely plesant


----------



## mammal

DJJEZ said:


> Amazing deal


I know, right?! And not the first time, he did the same when I was upgrading from Hugo 2 to TT2, as my use case changed.


----------



## Orlok

Tachyon88 said:


> @Orlok Your music interest sound just like mine, but I'll add anime and game OST in addition. Some gems there that cross every genre you mentioned.
> 
> When I pull away the Diana V2 away from my ear the bass increases, just like my S400 does when I am near the back of my room. Does your room produce that low end boost on your S400 too and is that what the bass is like on the TC ? Because sometimes my speakers produce very nice impactful bass when near a wall in my room, to the point where sometimes I go "fuc". I'm wondering if that is basically the same effect the TC is doing too ?


Very cool. Yes, very eclectic and I'm always looking to discover some new stuff. Will have check out anime and game OST as well.

The S400 does produce great bass for speakers its size. I get as much bass I could ever really want from the S400 and the room and it is very well controlled with the acoustic treatment I did. I don't like boomy kind of bass at all so I knew I had to put absorption panels and the corner bass traps.

Listening to speakers is such a different experience than listening to headphones so it's hard to compare that to listening to my TC, the SR1a or the LCD-4 but I can say that the TC also provides as much bass from headphones as I'd ever need or want. So, from that perspective, yes, the bass and sub-bass on the TC is awesome. It's big but tight, punchy and totally separated from everything else in its own space so it never intrudes on what's going on with other instruments and vocals. Yes, the TC's bass will make you go "fuc".


----------



## Orlok

simorag said:


> Yesterday I received this teaser from Spirit Torino's factory. They are assembling the new batch, you can spot the #08/99 serial number, so guess what's coming next
> 
> ​
> Of course I am waiting for them with increasing excitement in anticipation, but in the meanwhile I was listening to the album below with the TC, and the kick, the liveliness of the venue, the "X" factor at full display are making the wait extremely plesant
> ...


Very cool. Must be exciting.

Big fan of Ahmad Jamal. Have a good number of his albums on my Qobuz favorites list but haven't heard this one. He has so many albums. Well, I'm listening to it now. Sounds great. Yeah, live albums really display the space and the depth capabilities of the TC to great effect.


----------



## DJJEZ




----------



## number1sixerfan

Shahrose said:


> This ^
> 
> The SR1a have a more realistic presentation as if the sounds are being produced by the instruments close to you rather than transducers. With the TC, I do get an expansive SS (sometimes larger than the SR1a) but I always know I'm listening to headphones, for various reasons related to its presentation.
> 
> Changing gears a bit, where the TC truly wow me is their representation of bass and subbass. Clearly, they are a league apart from all other HPs. I've had to take off the headphones several times thinking my subwoofers were on. I really felt it in my upper chest with the TC...





Ciggavelli said:


> The bass and sub-bass is amazing on the TCs. The only other headphones I’ve tried that can compare in the sub bass and impact of the TCs are the Fostex TH900mk2. The TCs are better for sure, but the th900mk2s can be played off a DragonFly and they’re closed back. So, the Fostex is a good travel  pair of headphones. I’m hoping a closed back Abyss headphone comes out soon (I.e, Closed back Diana)




Couldn't agree more. TC has probably the best base of any current headphone I've heard that's on the market now (have not heard Fostex however). The Audio Technica L3000 is the only headphone I've heard that bests it in that regard, but they are unattainable. And even then, it's slight and they do so many other things better than it. 

I think the most impressive thing is that I have never*, ever heard a headphone with that type of clarity with it's type of bass. Usually the headphones that have the most detail and clarity do so at the expense of bass. That is just a long standing thing that has been true forever. The TC has clarity and detail that rivals anything out there, while having amazing bass that doesn't detract from it at all. It's quite incredible and rare.


----------



## Solan

DJJEZ said:


>



Good episode!


----------



## TheonJ

Curious, has anyone got any experience of the superconductor cable with the Pathos InPol Ear amp? Appreciate it is a VERY specific question. Whilst I’ve the the SC on a pair of Diana Phi’s, due to the length (4ft), I haven’t really used it on the Pathos, so can’t really do an effective comparison of the Phi stock vs SC, in order to give at least a rough comparison.

Any views would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Tachyon88

Orlok said:


> Very cool. Yes, very eclectic and I'm always looking to discover some new stuff. Will have check out anime and game OST as well.
> 
> The S400 does produce great bass for speakers its size. I get as much bass I could ever really want from the S400 and the room and it is very well controlled with the acoustic treatment I did. I don't like boomy kind of bass at all so I knew I had to put absorption panels and the corner bass traps.
> 
> Listening to speakers is such a different experience than listening to headphones so it's hard to compare that to listening to my TC, the SR1a or the LCD-4 but I can say that the TC also provides as much bass from headphones as I'd ever need or want. So, from that perspective, yes, the bass and sub-bass on the TC is awesome. It's big but tight, punchy and totally separated from everything else in its own space so it never intrudes on what's going on with other instruments and vocals. Yes, the TC's bass will make you go "fuc".



Right on, I have some room treatment too, but when I go to the back of the room it sounds really nice, not bloomy, but punchy without diminishing anything else. Since you can create more or less bass with positioning of the TC, I thought maybe the bass being produced is in the same manner of how the bass increases in different parts of a room. The room in this case is the ear pads and the wall is your face.

Think I'm sold on the TH900 mk2 though. Form factor is a big drawback for me with the TC, still would love to hear them though.


----------



## qboogie

TheonJ said:


> Curious, has anyone got any experience of the superconductor cable with the Pathos InPol Ear amp? Appreciate it is a VERY specific question. Whilst I’ve the the SC on a pair of Diana Phi’s, due to the length (4ft), I haven’t really used it on the Pathos, so can’t really do an effective comparison of the Phi stock vs SC, in order to give at least a rough comparison.
> 
> Any views would be greatly appreciated.


Can't answer your question myself, but I would very much like to hear your impressions of the inpol ear and the 1266. I've looked into this pairing and have heard great things. Not a lot of inpol ear owners out there though


----------



## Orlok

Tachyon88 said:


> Right on, I have some room treatment too, but when I go to the back of the room it sounds really nice, not bloomy, but punchy without diminishing anything else. Since you can create more or less bass with positioning of the TC, I thought maybe the bass being produced is in the same manner of how the bass increases in different parts of a room. The room in this case is the ear pads and the wall is your face.
> 
> Think I'm sold on the TH900 mk2 though. Form factor is a big drawback for me with the TC, still would love to hear them though.


Yes, you can definitely adjust the amount of bass you are getting by changing the angle of the TC's cups/pads. I do that quite often depending on the tracks I'm listening to or the mood I'm in. If the tracks have light or weak bass, I'll angle the cups in more to create a little more space in the back. If the tracks are already heavy on bass and I want to get a better balance, then I'll have the pads angled almost in parallel to each other.

I remember when I first saw the AB-1266 online a few years ago. I thought: "What the..." I also laughed at people wearing them on videos.  But, as time went by, my mind slowly started to change and I just focused on the sound. As I did more and more research reading reviews and comments on forums like this and also watching the reviews on YT from various people, I came to think that the AB-1266 really has the sonic signature that I'm looking for. At the same time, the look of the TC became more and more attractive and cool. Haha. Now I've it. I find it beautiful to look at and marvel at the innovative design, build quality, engineering, and the workmanship every time I pick it up.

I can really relate because I'm in the industry of selling high-end electric guitars. I remember when I first saw headless Steinberger guitars back in the 80's and thought they were absolutely hideous and said, "I will _never_ be seen playing something like _that_." Well, my mind eventually changed and I ended up owning a Steinberger and really enjoyed it although I eventually ended up selling it because its composite construction. And, now, I'm running a company that only sells headless guitars!

I have to admit I was a little concerned about the reports about the TC not being comfortable, being too heavy, being awkward and difficult to adjust, etc. but I have not found that to be the case at all. In fact, I find it more comfortable to wear for long periods than my SR1a and the LCD-4. The SR1a is far lighter but it's design with the wings hanging on the sides of my head is a little weird to get used - at least for me. The LCD-4 is a traditional headphone and I don't find the weight bothersome as it does for so many people but it has that clamping pressure that gets fatiguing after a while. The TC, in contrast, sits very firm on my head and the weight is very evenly distributed so I don't feel the weight at all. It also has no clamping pressure whatsoever since the cups/pads are barely touching the sides of my head. But I guess this will vary from person to person. Still, I highly recommend that you at least try it out if you can.


----------



## ufospls2

I've finally received my adapter for 4.4mm use with the iFi iDSD Diablo with the TC's. If you are looking for a portable/transportable option, this is the best that I have personally tried with the 1266's. For use with the 1266 or even the Diana siblings, I would choose this over the Hugo 2, the other iFi transportable options, the WA11, the WA8. There is that new Cayin C9, which would be interesting to try, but it is only an amp and costs $2000. 

It doesn't have all the features of the cheaper signature model, but the sound quality is indeed improved, and it has an extra watt of output power. vs the signature. Seriously good, and I would imagine very good with the Diana siblings as well.


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> Yes, I have adapters for the Susvara, HD800S and the Utopias and LCD-4 (still waiting on those two headphones to finally arrive   )
> 
> The SC with the Susvaras wasn’t as good as the Cardas Clear hp cables, in my opinion, but I haven’t tried them recently. The SC on the HD800s is definitely a big improvement over stock. But using a $2.5K cable on a $1600 pair of headphones is absurd
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip on Affinity Adapters. I ordered the TC-to-Audeze adapter set and am looking forward to trying the JPS stock (as well as the SC when I get it) with the LCD-4. I have a feeling the JPS stock will be a good match with the LCD-4.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Orlok said:


> Thanks for the tip on Affinity Adapters. I ordered the TC-to-Audeze adapter set and am looking forward to trying the JPS stock (as well as the SC when I get it) with the LCD-4. I have a feeling the JPS stock will be a good match with the LCD-4.


I just got his Abyss to LCD-4 connector in the mail today, myself.  My LCD-4 comes next week too.  I'm excited to try it out (now if only my Utopias and Solitaire Ps would finally ship  )


----------



## Roasty

Ciggavelli said:


> I just got his Abyss to LCD-4 connector in the mail today, myself.  My LCD-4 comes next week too.  I'm excited to try it out (now if only my Utopias and Solitaire Ps would finally ship  )



U have a massive range of totl cans! Do u find yourself listening to the Raal much?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Roasty said:


> U have a massive range of totl cans! Do u find yourself listening to the Raal much?


Yup, at least once a week. I listen to a different pair of headphones everyday. Yesterday was the SR1as, and today was a hip hop day with the TCs. Tomorrow will be the Susvaras with metal.


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> Yup, at least once a week. I listen to a different pair of headphones everyday. Yesterday was the SR1as, and today was a hip hop day with the TCs. Tomorrow will be the Susvaras with metal.


Like I said, you are like Genghis. He was a very curious man.


----------



## Litlgi74

Question for those using the same speaker amp to drive their TCs and Raals...

Do you plug your TCs directly into the Raal interface box?


----------



## ufospls2

Litlgi74 said:


> Question for those using the same speaker amp to drive their TCs and Raals...
> 
> Do you plug your TCs directly into the Raal interface box?



That is a bad idea, as far as I know. I remember reading NOT to do that, but something may have changed. Check with RAAL before trying so you don't blow up your TCs or something.


----------



## Orlok

Litlgi74 said:


> Question for those using the same speaker amp to drive their TCs and Raals...
> 
> Do you plug your TCs directly into the Raal interface box?


You definitely do not want to do that. This is why the XLR jack orientation is the opposite on the interface box - to prevent plugging in of "normal" headphones to it.


----------



## Litlgi74

Let me clarify... What I should have asked was... 

For those using the same speaker amp to drive their TCs and Raals...

Do you plug your TCs directly into the rear of (speaker taps) Raal interface box?


----------



## Roasty

No.. Plug it into the speaker taps on your amp.
The Raal box only has one set of speaker taps that serve as inputs for the headphone port in the front.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Apr 26, 2021)

Wow... This conversation derailed quickly.




Could I not just connect the speaker amp to the bottom (amp in) speaker taps and my TCs to the top (spk out) speaker taps?

I already connect my TC's directly to the speaker taps of my Moon 600i..


----------



## Roasty

Litlgi74 said:


> Wow... This conversation derailed quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's a different model speaker adaptor box from what I'm using now. Mine only has 4 speaker posts for input.


----------



## Litlgi74

Roasty said:


> That's a different model speaker adaptor box from what I'm using now. Mine only has 4 speaker posts for input.


That's interesting... Even the owners manual references the 8 speaker tap version... Must not have been updated.


----------



## Litlgi74

So if I end up getting the eight speaker tap version... I should be able to hook up my TCs to the speaker outs of the Raal interface box.. yes?


----------



## ra990

Litlgi74 said:


> So if I end up getting the eight speaker tap version... I should be able to hook up my TCs to the speaker outs of the Raal interface box.. yes?


Yes, I would presume that would be their intended purpose. So you can place the interface box as a passthrough device.


----------



## Orlok

Litlgi74 said:


> Wow... This conversation derailed quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, you could use a 4-pin to XLR speaker tap adapter and connect to the speaker outs of the interface box. I used to do that to switch between the TC and the SR1a using my TToby. Attached is a photo of that setup.

Then, I decided that the TToby is too underpowered for the SR1a so I got another amp that's rated at 400w and that works really well now and I can also switch to using my S400 speakers. So I'm now only using the TToby to drive the the TC.

One note: I compared using the interface box's speaker outs vs. straight out of the TToby's speaker taps and there is a noticeable sound difference. Direct out of the TToby sounds better all-around. It's not a huge difference but noticeable. You are adding another layer of circuits in between so I guess a little degradation is inevitable. You should compare both and see if it's worth going this route. I was fine with it for a few weeks until I did the actual A/B.


----------



## Litlgi74

Orlok said:


> Yes, you could use a 4-pin to XLR speaker tap adapter and connect to the speaker outs of the interface box. I used to do that to switch between the TC and the SR1a using my TToby. Attached is a photo of that setup.
> 
> Then, I decided that the TToby is too underpowered for the SR1a so I got another amp that's rated at 400w and that works really well now and I can also switch to using my S400 speakers. So I'm now only using the TToby to drive the the TC.
> 
> One note: I compared using the interface box's speaker outs vs. straight out of the TToby's speaker taps and there is a noticeable sound difference. Direct out of the TToby sounds better all-around. It's not a huge difference but noticeable. You are adding another layer of circuits in between so I guess a little degradation is inevitable. You should compare both and see if it's worth going this route. I was fine with it for a few weeks until I did the actual A/B.


Thanks for the reply... Do you know of a speaker tap splitter/adapter that I could use on the back of my integrated? So that I could have a connection to the interface box and directly to my TCs?


----------



## Orlok (Apr 27, 2021)

Litlgi74 said:


> Thanks for the reply... Do you know of a speaker tap splitter/adapter that I could use on the back of my integrated? So that I could have a connection to the interface box and directly to my TCs?


There is something like this at Amazon but it's hard to say what kind of effect it would have on the sound quality. It does look convenient. You can even control the gain level to each output.

It's probably a better idea to contact some cable makers to see if they can make something for you.


----------



## Litlgi74

Orlok said:


> There is something like this at Amazon but it's hard to say what kind of effect it would have on the sound quality. It does look convenient. You can even control the gain level to each output.


Maybe I will just continue use my XLR to speaker tap adapter for my TCs... And run second wire from the same speaker post of my amp to the Raal interface box... I will just need to remember to disconnect the XLR adapter when not using the TCs.


----------



## Orlok

Litlgi74 said:


> Maybe I will just continue use my XLR to speaker tap adapter for my TCs... And run second wire from the same speaker post of my amp to the Raal interface box... I will just need to remember to disconnect the XLR adapter when not using the TCs.


Yes, I think you want to get the best SQ possible when using the TC. What integrated amp are you using?


----------



## Litlgi74

Orlok said:


> Yes, I think you want to get the best SQ possible when using the TC. What integrated amp are you using?


Moon 600i


----------



## Orlok

Litlgi74 said:


> Moon 600i


Very nice. How do you like it with the TC and the SR1a? Must sound great.


----------



## Litlgi74

Orlok said:


> Very nice. How do you like it with the TC and the SR1a? Must sound great.


I don't have the Raals just yet...hoping to get them tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## Shahrose

Litlgi74 said:


> Let me clarify... What I should have asked was...
> 
> For those using the same speaker amp to drive their TCs and Raals...
> 
> *Do you plug your TCs directly into the rear of (speaker taps) Raal interface box?*



Yes, you can do that through the speaker out terminals on the interface box.


----------



## Orlok

Now it's my better-half's turn to experience and get lost in the Abyss! And, of course, she fully approves...


----------



## FLTWS (Apr 27, 2021)

I wasn't even aware RAAL had made that change to the interface. I wonder when they made the change?
I don't see it listed as an accessory on their sites "Store" page.
From my manual.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Apr 27, 2021)

Another member suggested I put the Ifi-iesl between my speaker amp and my TCs... He said the TC will sound better coming out from the i-esl vs. speaker tap direct. the i-esl step-up energizer lowers the noise floor quite a bit vs. speaker tap direct.

By speaker tap direct.. he means running my TCs directly from the speaker taps of my Moon 600i.

The suggestion was also made because I could run the TCs, SR1As, and estats all from one box.. powered by my Moon 600i.

Any opinions?


----------



## Litlgi74

FLTWS said:


> I wasn't even aware RAAL had made that change to the interface. I wonder when they made the change?
> I don't see it listed as an accessory on their sites "Store" page.
> From my manual.


You can see the 4 post version in the store. https://raalrequisite.com/product/ribbon-amp-interface/


----------



## FLTWS

Yes, the 4 post is listed but not the 8 post version.


----------



## paradoxper

Litlgi74 said:


> Another member suggested I put the Ifi-iesl between my speaker amp and my TCs... He said the TC will sound better coming out from the i-esl vs. speaker tap direct. the i-esl step-up energizer lowers the noise floor quite a bit vs. speaker tap direct.
> 
> By speaker tap direct.. he means running my TCs directly from the speaker taps of my Moon 600i.
> 
> ...


This would be the most convenient solution. You will, however, be making concessions across the board.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Apr 27, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> This would be the most convenient solution. You will, however, be making concessions across the board.


Such as? At your convenience, feel free to PM me.


----------



## paradoxper

Litlgi74 said:


> Such as?


The real crutch is the energizer for electrostatic drive. You won't attain complementary sound quality as with the TC or SR1a. 
But what you should really do is arrange even a 323 to establish a good baseline.


----------



## Articnoise

paradoxper said:


> The real crutch is the energizer for electrostatic drive. You won't attain complementary sound quality as with the TC or SR1a.
> But what you should really do is arrange even a 323 to establish a good baseline.


Not because I understand anything of what you're saying . Anyhow, I do not think that Ifi's energizer sounds good. Neither when it comes to drive electrostatic nor planar. I see no reason to connect it if you already have a 600i and don't have electrostatics headphones.


----------



## paradoxper

Articnoise said:


> Not because I understand anything of what you're saying . Anyhow, I do not think that Ifi's energizer sounds good. Neither when it comes to drive electrostatic nor planar. I see no reason to connect it if you already have a 600i and don't have electrostatics headphones.



The iFI isn't very good anywhere but it does offer a convenience flexibility under some competency. 

I might also assume he's willing to concede the last 5% of performance to have a rigged AIO interface.


----------



## Litlgi74

paradoxper said:


> I might also assume he's willing to concede the last 5% of performance to have a rigged AIO interface.


Don't do that... Because I'm not.


----------



## paradoxper

Litlgi74 said:


> Don't do that... Because I'm not.


Then you can take the iFi out of consideration. 

You just need to focus on the stat system being separate from the Moon/TC/SR1a combo.


----------



## JLoud

Do you already have a stat amp? I really like my BHSE. I run my XLR through the BHSE to my WA33. You could do something similar. From the BHSE to your Moon. I have tried comparing going straight to the WA33 and through the BHSE and can't tell a difference. However I'm not sure that really helps with your question. Other than my recommendation of the BHSE.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Apr 27, 2021)

I don't want to waste anyone's time... So I should probably put and end to this. 

I don't have estats... May never own them... The ifi was just a suggestion from another member who said the TC will sound better coming out from the i-esl vs. Moon speaker tap direct.... His reasoning was that because the i-esl step-up energizer lowers the noise floor quite a bit vs. speaker tap direct....

I am ignorant to this... so I thought I would ask the opinion of others... to be honest... this seemed like it would have been a convenient (expensive) solution for both the Raals and the TCs.

I originally purchased the Moon for the 1266... but I also knew it would eventually drive the SR1a one day in the future. That future day has arrived... Hence the questions

For now... I will connect both my TCs and the Raal interface box directly to the speaker posts of the Moon. For the TCs, I will continue to use my XLR to speaker tap adapter. And for the Raals, I will use banana to spade adapters.


----------



## paradoxper

Litlgi74 said:


> I don't want to waste anyone's time... So I should probably put and end to this.
> 
> I don't have estats... May never own them... The ifi was just a suggestion from another member who said the TC will sound better coming out from the i-esl vs. Moon speaker tap direct.... His reasoning was that because the i-esl step-up energizer lowers the noise floor quite a bit vs. speaker tap direct....
> 
> ...


It might be prying to ask what gear that member uses. It's a specific plausibility as the iFi runs off battery -- which presents its own shortcoming.


----------



## TheonJ

qboogie said:


> Can't answer your question myself, but I would very much like to hear your impressions of the inpol ear and the 1266. I've looked into this pairing and have heard great things. Not a lot of inpol ear owners out there though


I’ve been very happy with the pairing - originally had a Pass labs HPA-1, but when I auditioned the InPol Ear it was pretty striking in terms of difference - just opened everything up. Now just been eyeing up the SC and just needing that little push to help me clear up my thoughts.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

I finally got rid of the dreadful stock cable


----------



## Roasty

DuncanDirkDick said:


> I finally got rid of the dreadful stock cable



Nice!
Where did u get that splitter, and did u ask for the furutech plug as a custom option? Mine came with a silver barreled plug.


----------



## JLoud

Yeah that all black looks nice. The spitter is sweet. I want one!


----------



## Litlgi74

JLoud said:


> Yeah that all black looks nice. The spitter is sweet. I want one!


You just got a new cable! Lol


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Roasty said:


> Nice!
> Where did u get that splitter, and did u ask for the furutech plug as a custom option? Mine came with a silver barreled plug.


Nah that's my design. I was so disappointed with the stock one that I didn't want to take chances. And the splitter really helps


----------



## JLoud

Litlgi74 said:


> You just got a new cable! Lol


No I just mean the splitter.


----------



## Orlok

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Nah that's my design. I was so disappointed with the stock one that I didn't want to take chances. And the splitter really helps


Please do tell us where you got that splitter. My SC 10' is arriving today.


----------



## jlbrach

DuncanDirkDick said:


> I finally got rid of the dreadful stock cable


the 1266 stock cable is IMHO the best stock cable I have thus far gotten with a TOTL HP...


----------



## JLoud

Performance wise I totally agree. Aesthetics, not so much.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

jlbrach said:


> the 1266 stock cable is IMHO the best stock cable I have thus far gotten with a TOTL HP...


Sadly there is truth in there. Susvara and Utopia have equally terrible cables. Audeze is fine though. The LCD4 had a decent cable. T+A are fine. Can't remember stock ZMF. 



Orlok said:


> Please do tell us where you got that splitter. My SC 10' is arriving today.


It's printed. I see if I post the stl later


----------



## JLoud

I was pretty happy with my stock LCD-4 cable. Only replaced it because I needed XLR.


----------



## Orlok

My SC 10' just arrived. Has the Furutech connectors. It shall be another fun evening and weekend. Will try the SC first and then try out the batteries over the weekend so I can evaluate one thing at a time.


----------



## DJJEZ

Orlok said:


> My SC 10' just arrived. Has the Furutech connectors. It shall be another fun evening and weekend. Will try the SC first and then try out the batteries over the weekend so I can evaluate one thing at a time.


congrats. I need the same size or the 12 foot one but the price is insane in the UK


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> congrats. I need the same size or the 12 foot one but the price is insane in the UK


I need the headphones first...the wait is REALLY getting tedious!


----------



## Orlok

DJJEZ said:


> congrats. I need the same size or the 12 foot one but the price is insane in the UK


Yeah, I can imagine. That's too bad things work out that way. Well, I can now tell people that this HP is $8K instead of $5K and watch them gasp in disbelief! Haha.


----------



## Orlok

Gadget67 said:


> I need the headphones first...the wait is REALLY getting tedious!


Feel for you, man. But I'm sure it'll be worth the wait!


----------



## DJJEZ

Gadget67 said:


> I need the headphones first...the wait is REALLY getting tedious!


tell me about it. its agonizing


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> tell me about it. its agonizing


I DID tell you about it.


----------



## SuperBurrito

jlbrach said:


> the 1266 stock cable is IMHO the best stock cable I have thus far gotten with a TOTL HP...


They are very good. But they better be for $1,000!
https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...b-1266-headphone-cable?variant=12493599735851


----------



## jlbrach

I saw somebody offering the stock cable used the other day I think for something like 499 if I remember...a steal IMHO


----------



## MatW

Who would ever buy the stock cable? Unless the original stock cable was damaged or something.. Mine is lying around in a cupboard, doing nothing. Happy to sell it if there are any takers. But I don't think so...


----------



## Pashmeister

Good evening distinguished gentlemen. I currently have the opportunity to get either a brand new TC lite for ~USD4,500 or a used Phi (with upgraded pads) for ~USD 2,220. May I ask for your opinion on which is the better deal for you? Is the improvement from Phi to TC in this case worth more than 2 grand? Thanks


----------



## vonBaron

Go for TC 1266! You won't regret!


----------



## mammal

Pashmeister said:


> Good evening distinguished gentlemen. I currently have the opportunity to get either a brand new TC lite for ~USD4,500 or a used Phi (with upgraded pads) for ~USD 2,220. May I ask for your opinion on which is the better deal for you? Is the improvement from Phi to TC in this case worth more than 2 grand? Thanks


Don't be like me, who first bought Diana V2, fell in love with it and could not sleep because of "how much better AB-1266 is?", until I ordered it for myself


----------



## Litlgi74

If anyone wants to sell their crappy good for nothing 1266 stock cable... PM me.


----------



## DJJEZ

Pashmeister said:


> Good evening distinguished gentlemen. I currently have the opportunity to get either a brand new TC lite for ~USD4,500 or a used Phi (with upgraded pads) for ~USD 2,220. May I ask for your opinion on which is the better deal for you? Is the improvement from Phi to TC in this case worth more than 2 grand? Thanks


TC 100% otherwise you will want one later after buying the Phi lol


----------



## jlbrach

better deal?...the phi,better decision if you can swing the cash is the TC


----------



## DJJEZ

@Orlok update on SC cable


----------



## Orlok (Apr 29, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> @Orlok update on SC cable


It's coming but I want to make sure I give it plenty of quality time with a lot of different genres to provide detailed impressions. For now, I'll say I'm extremely happy with it. Overall, it's more balanced now with more forward mids, a more focused and textured bass and clearer, sweeter and more extended highs. It's not one of those things you change and go "Whoa!" It's something that takes time to filter in as you listen to the details but, as you do, you start marveling at what you are hearing compared to what you had before.

What I can say for now is that it really does make the TC a more balanced and "complete" HP compared to the MA SD and the Abyss stock cables I've been using. I think I'm only at around 12 hours now (had music playing all through the night as well) and Joe advised me that it will start to "lock in" at around 75 hours so I still have some ways to go. It's not about even more wow factor but about micro details, smoothness, and even better imaging that allows you to really hear and appreciate nuances and subtleties.

It made me switch tracks from rock, metal, EDM, energetic pop, etc. to classical, jazz, acoustic and vocal music and I'm loving what I'm hearing. The TC's wow factor remains but now it's even more refined and capable of picking up the smallest subtleties/nuances with that undefinable musicality. Until now, it's been the vocals (especially the female vocals since I love so many female singers) that had me left wanting something more but that's fully addressed now.

I'm glad that I've been able to take these step-by-step additions and spending time with each to fully appreciate the changes and the improvements. The Complete package is hard to shell out for in the beginning and I think it's just fine to start out with the Lite and then upgrade to the SC when you are ready. It makes you appreciate the scalability of the TC even more and that goes for other components in the chain as well.

Now that I have well over 200 hours on the TC and am still in the process of burning in the SC interconnects and this SC HP cable, I want to spend a lot of time exploring virtually everything in my library as well as what I can on Qobuz and then provide detailed impressions on as far as how I hear it. So I have to say that the "Complete" moniker is 100% spot on. The SC allows the TC to blossom and reach to its full potential. And then adding/changing/upgrading components in the signal chain will only amplify and enhance that experience. Well, I guess I ended up providing a fairly detailed impression after all!


----------



## DJJEZ

Orlok said:


> It's coming but I want to make sure I give it plenty of quality time with a lot of different genres to provide detailed impressions. For now, I'll say I'm extremely happy with it. Overall, it's more balanced now with more forward mids, a more focused and textured bass and clearer, sweeter and more extended highs. It's not one of those things you change and go "Whoa!" It's something that takes time to filter in as you listen to the details but, as you do, you start marveling at what you are hearing compared to what you had before.
> 
> What I can say for now is that it really does make the TC a more balanced and "complete" HP compared to the MA SD and the Abyss stock cables I've been using. I think I'm only at around 12 hours now (had music playing all through the night as well) and Joe advised me that it will start to "lock in" at around 75 hours so I still have some ways to go. It's not about even more wow factor but about micro details, smoothness, and even better imaging that allows you to really hear and appreciate nuances and subtleties.
> 
> ...


----------



## Roasty

@Orlok nice SC impressions! By the way, what headband is that you have on the Raal?


----------



## makan

Roasty said:


> @Orlok nice SC impressions! By the way, what headband is that you have on the Raal?


That’s the ZMF co-pilot I believe.


----------



## Orlok

Roasty said:


> @Orlok nice SC impressions! By the way, what headband is that you have on the Raal?


Thank you! Yes, I confirm it's the ZMF Co-Pilot. Fits perfectly on the SR1a and really increases the comfort level. It makes the SR1a feel like it's just floating around your head.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Apr 30, 2021)

For the TC and SR1a owners...

Check this track out with both headphones -  https://tidal.com/track/66523180

Is it possible that the TCs deliver to much bass? Or bass that sounds artificial? I've only had time to listen to my new Raals for a few minutes over the past few days... When I first tried them... Bass lite... Just like I remembered from demoing them at CanJam. But tonight I was able to hook both headphones to my amp and listen to the same track on both headphones at the same time. The Raals do require more juice from my Moon 600i than the TCs... But the bass is quite incredible,... clean and snappy. The TCs sound bloomy and over exaggerated in comparison.

Would love to hear your opinions.

Like the TCs... the Raals are really special headphones.

Wow... The TCs... too much bass... It can't be... Lol


----------



## jlbrach

when I listen to the TC and then switch to the sr1a they sound lean and lacking bass...after a couple of days of listening to the sr1a and then going back to the TC's they sound bloated at first....they are so different yet both superb....I am not sure which I like best...whichever I listen to for a few days I decide is best lol


----------



## Stereolab42 (Apr 30, 2021)

Litlgi74 said:


> For the TC and SR1a owners...
> 
> Check this track out with both headphones -  https://tidal.com/track/66523180
> 
> ...


I don't have Tidal (or a competitor, still thinking about which hi-res streaming service to jump on) but the answer to your question is no. Only dynamic closed headphones can deliver "too much bass" I've found. Open planars simply do not have that physical ability. I suppose they can be egregiously scooped in the mids due to tuning, but that's not a property I've found in any of the TOTLs.


----------



## Litlgi74

I may have to modify my avatar. Lol


----------



## Ciggavelli

Too much bass?  Blasphemy






The closer the earpads are to your face, the less bass you hear. I love that about the TCs. You can angle them out for more bass, or keep them close to your ears for less bass. But, yeah, too much TC bass is something I can’t comprehend


----------



## Litlgi74 (Apr 30, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> Too much bass?  Blasphemy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are right about moving them closer... I just couldn't believe how much bass I was hearing when comparing the two... The TCs "sounded" over exaggerated. After listening to my TCs in the same position for over a year... The contrast of what I thought was ideal sounding (Raals vs TCs) was quite remarkable.


----------



## Orlok (Apr 30, 2021)

Litlgi74 said:


> You are right about moving them closer... I just couldn't believe how much bass I was hearing when comparing the two... The TCs "sounded" over exaggerated. After listening to my TCs in the same position for over a year... The contrast of what I thought was ideal sounding (Raals vs TCs) was quite remarkable.


Maybe I should steal your avatar. Haha. Switching back and forth between the TC and the SR1a can get somewhat disorienting. It's even more so if you go to the LCD-4 from the SR1a and vice versa. They just sound so different and present almost diametrically opposed sonic signatures. I love them all for different things but I find I reach for the SR1a when I want to listen to classical, acoustic and vocal music, none of which would be considered bass heavy.

I guess it just depends on the mood you are in and what genres you want to listen to at a particular time. The SR1a is really good with other genres as well but, most of the time now, I'll reach for the TC for rock, pop, electronic, metal, soundtracks, etc. I like the LCD-4 for classic rock, blues, jazz, pop/jazz vocals, oldies and rootsy music. But they can all do other stuff great; it's just about what kind of a feel and vibe you are going for when you pick up a particular HP. I now feel that the TC with the SC cable can pretty much cover everything I listen to exceptionally well, if not outright perfect.

BTW, that particular album by Aether you referred to is not showing on Qobuz although others are. I checked out 'Introvert' and am listening the 'Roki' OST right now. Is it the same artist? I noticed there's a metal band called Aether as well. I like this kind of ambient music a lot. As for TC vs. SR1a, they are so different that it's kind of pointless to say which one is "better" and things like that. Well, I guess that goes for all TOTL headphones like the Susvara, LCD-4, Utopia, Solitaire, 009(S) and others. What I can say _for myself_ is that the TC pretty much checks all the boxes to cover all the different genres I like to listen to so my focus right now is on optimizing my setup to get the best out of it.


----------



## Shahrose

Litlgi74 said:


> For the TC and SR1a owners...
> 
> Check this track out with both headphones -  https://tidal.com/track/66523180
> 
> ...



I agree. Always felt the TC were tastefully north of neutral in bass and the SR1a were the opposite. I generally prefer the TC with the bass shelved down 1.5db and the other way around with the SR1a, though both sound great without EQ too.


----------



## Ratephi (Apr 30, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> when I listen to the TC and then switch to the sr1a they sound lean and lacking bass...after a couple of days of listening to the sr1a and then going back to the TC's they sound bloated at first....they are so different yet both superb....I am not sure which I like best...whichever I listen to for a few days I decide is best lol



I experienced exactly the same a number of times when comparing TC to other headphones.
Last night, for example, I plugged in my HD800s after probably a good 3 or 4 months during which this headphone had not seen any use at all. And the first instinctive impression was that it almost completely lacked bass.

Truth is that, knowing the HD800s very well and appreciating how the bass of this headphone is certainly different and less prominent than the TC's, I would never flag the Sennheiser as a headphone which totally lacks bass. But that was the immediate impression the headphone transmitted to me, as soon as I put it back on my head last night, after a few months of TC-bass “brainwashing”...

This is why I am personally more and more skeptical about A/B testing of gear - not only headphones - in quick sequence. And why I’m convinced that fairly often we don’t truly get to appreciate our gear, because we don’t allow our brain and ears the necessary time to fully understand and adapt to it. That’s certainly the case for me at least.


----------



## Slim1970

Ratephi said:


> I experienced exactly the same a number of times when comparing TC to other headphones.
> Last night, for example, I plugged in my HD800s after probably a good 3 or 4 months during which this headphone had not seen any use at all. And the first instinctive impression was that it almost completely lacked bass.
> 
> Truth is that, knowing the HD800s very well and appreciating how the bass of this headphone is certainly different and less prominent of the of a TC, I would never flag the Sennheiser as a headphone which totally lacks bass. But that was the immediate impression the headphone transmitted to me, as soon as I put it back on my head last night, after a few months of TC-bass “brainwashing”...
> ...


Agreed, listening to anything after listening to the TC’s makes them sound deficient of any good sonic traits. It’s a must to let your ears and brain adjust in order to find joy in other headphones. Switching back and forth in rapid succession sort of ruins the listening experience of both headphones to be honest.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Apr 30, 2021)

Orlok said:


> BTW, that particular album by Aether you referred to is not showing on Qobuz although others are. I checked out 'Introvert' and am listening the 'Roki' OST right now. Is it the same artist? I noticed there's a metal band called Aether as well. I like this kind of ambient music a lot.


Yep... Same artist. If you like this style of music... Check out my favorite in the genre. Vacant. Unfortunately, there is another (not so great) band by the same name.

But check out:
Nocturnal/Vacant:


https://tidal.com/album/73575355

He even shows up on a few other artists albums:

Nexus/Aether:


https://tidal.com/track/80689304

Calendar Project/Feverkin:


https://tidal.com/track/98214475

Enjoy


----------



## Gadget67

Ratephi said:


> I experienced exactly the same a number of times when comparing TC to other headphones.
> Last night, for example, I plugged in my HD800s after probably a good 3 or 4 months during which this headphone had not seen any use at all. And the first instinctive impression was that it almost completely lacked bass.
> 
> Truth is that, knowing the HD800s very well and appreciating how the bass of this headphone is certainly different and less prominent than the TC's, I would never flag the Sennheiser as a headphone which totally lacks bass. But that was the immediate impression the headphone transmitted to me, as soon as I put it back on my head last night, after a few months of TC-bass “brainwashing”...
> ...


That’s a very perceptive observation and mirrors my experience.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Litlgi74 said:


> For the TC and SR1a owners...
> 
> Check this track out with both headphones -  https://tidal.com/track/66523180
> 
> ...



Went back and forth with both on this song, sounds pretty amazing with each. Definitely not getting an overbearing presence of bass with the TC, nor would I really expect it given the nature of this song/album. As others mentioned, I think you're probably overindexing on what you're hearing as your brain gets readjusted from headphone to headphone. That said, this is exactly the kind of music that the Raal really thrives with. But again, sounds really good on the TC as well. 

Added this album to my library, good music for headphone listening


----------



## Ciggavelli

Probably the heaviest album ever, and of course it sounds great out of the TCs


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> Probably the heaviest album ever, and of course it sounds great out of the TCs


Sounds like a modern zonked and fuzzed-out early-Sabbath.


----------



## spacelion2077

What positions do you guys put the cups at?. I find 11/1 gives most details and 7/5 has most soundstage.


----------



## Orlok

spacelion2077 said:


> What positions do you guys put the cups at?. I find 11/1 gives most details and 7/5 has most soundstage.


I have it set at 9/3 but primarily for comfort reason and to not have the cups touch any part of my ears. Seems it's right in between the 11/1 and 7/5 you mention.


----------



## Roasty

11/1 i lose too much bass
9/3 most of the time
8/4 bass gets a bit too bloomy boomy


----------



## MatW

Orlok said:


> I have it set at 9/3 but primarily for comfort reason and to not have the cups touch any part of my ears.


Same for me for the same reason. In that position there is the most room top to bottom.


----------



## Orlok (May 1, 2021)

MatW said:


> Same for me for the same reason. In that position there is the most room top to bottom.


And it also sounds great! For different amounts of bass response and tonality, I change the angles of the cups slightly (toes-in and out) and move the TC forward and backward in relation to my ears just a tad based on the recordings as Joe shows on the "Tuning AB-1266 TC on your head" video. No need at all to use EQ with these instant adjustments - especially now that I have the SC cable. It has such a beautifully balanced sound now. 

The bass actually sounds "smaller" (but tighter, more focused, detailed, textured and structured) than before with the stock cable because the mids have been brought out forward and the highs are clearer and smoother. The TC just sounds better and better every day for me as the SC RCA interconnects from the TT2 to the TToby and SC HP cable continue to burn in.


----------



## Pashmeister (May 1, 2021)

Hello gentlemen. I found this adapter from Amazon, dual 3pin female to 4pin female XLR. Is this what can be used to connect 1266 to TT2? Thank you!


----------



## mammal

Pashmeister said:


> Hello gentlemen. I found this adapter from Amazon, dual 3pin female to 4pin female XLR. Is this what can be used to connect 1266 to TT2? Thank you!


The link doesn't work for me.


----------



## Pashmeister

mammal said:


> The link doesn't work for me.


Sorry — edited! Url is

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07ZP6XJSF?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_image


----------



## mammal

Pashmeister said:


> Sorry — edited! Url is
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07ZP6XJSF?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_image


I don't own this particular one, but it checks all the boxes it should - 2x3Pin female XLR into 4Pin female XLR


----------



## Pashmeister

mammal said:


> I don't own this particular one, but it checks all the boxes it should - 2x3Pin female XLR into 4Pin female XLR


Thanks — is there anything else I need to do to these adaptors before I use them? Or these are typically ready to go plug and play? I just wanna make sure I don’t blow anything up 😅


----------



## mammal

Pashmeister said:


> Thanks — is there anything else I need to do to these adaptors before I use them? Or these are typically ready to go plug and play? I just wanna make sure I don’t blow anything up 😅


Well, they need to be wired correctly. Think about it, on one end you have 2x3 leads, yet on another side only 4. So 6 into 4, where do those 2 go?

Your adapter has to be wired either in Balanced or Single ended mode. If I remember correctly (correct me if I am wrong) you want only L- L+ and R- R+ for balanced (so skip ground lead).


----------



## simorag

Although the TC is not exactly the vocals lover very best possible option, it still provides some spine-chilling adrenaline shots after all. 
The Superconductor is nicely helpful here, and the AIC-10 with a NOS Mullard tube sets the emotional stage for some further bloom and midrange weight.

Some very intense recordings follow, and if Trinity Sessions 'Mining for Gold' and Folk Singer 'My Home is in the Delta' don't move you, well you are not human


----------



## ra990 (May 5, 2021)

Pashmeister said:


> Sorry — edited! Url is
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07ZP6XJSF?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_image


Do not use this, it shorts pins 1 and 3 and will fry the output stage of the TT2. Search th TT2 thread, people have posted adaptes that work over there.
EDIT: I was mistaking this adapter for another similar looking one from Amazon. This one was verified to be wired correctly for TT2.


----------



## mammal

ra990 said:


> Do not use this, it shorts pins 1 and 3 and will fry the output stage of the TT2.


How do you know this particular adapter is wired this way? Only asking so that I don't give wrong advice in the future again, as I read through the listing but did not find its wiring layout. Thanks!


----------



## ra990 (May 1, 2021)

mammal said:


> How do you know this particular adapter is wired this way? Only asking so that I don't give wrong advice in the future again, as I read through the listing but did not find its wiring layout. Thanks!


Because I previously fried a TT2 with that exact one.

Check that only pins 2 and 3 are connected on any adapter that you buy. Ask the manufacturer or get a meter to verify.


----------



## MatW (May 1, 2021)

ra990 said:


> Do not use this, it shorts pins 1 and 3 and will fry the output stage of the TT2. Search th TT2 thread, people have posted adaptes that work over there.


Indeed. And I believe this is one of them. Select the right connectors in the drop down menus. @Pashmeister 
https://www.moon-audio.com/moon-audio-silver-dragon-v3-extension-adapter-cable.html


----------



## mammal

ra990 said:


> Because I previously fried a TT2 with that exact one.


Sorry to hear that! And thanks for being transparent to us about it.


----------



## Orlok

The optimization process continues. Received the two RAVPower batteries and the DC cables from Amazon and hooked them up to the HMS and TT2 today and, yes, they make a noticeable difference. Like the SC cable, it's not something that makes you say "Wow!" or anything like that but once you sit back and really listen, the improvement is substantial.

The treble is even smoother and sweeter, imaging is noticeably improved with greater separation between the voice(s) and instruments, the background is definitely blacker, and the fine micro details are further magnified. Hard to believe but true... Thanks to @ra990 and @Gadget67 for providing guidance with this setup. The more you get into this hobby, the more you realize that every little detail matters although some more than others.

Attached are a few pics of these batteries under the desk powering the HMS and TT2. From the desktop, the DC cables were a little too short to reach the batteries on the floor so I had to find a way to raise them and the Abyss HP box turned out to be the perfect platform. 

I'll be taking the entire setup (the TC with HMS/TT2/TToby) on my upcoming 10-day RV vacation trip so these batteries will come in very handy. Will be adding the Jackery 1000w battery as well for outdoor and home backup purposes but I'd like to use it for TToby as well at home. I also plan to run the MBP from the battery only for dedicated listening sessions and not have the monitors hooked up so that the entire system is running on battery power. Well, worth a try to see if it makes a further difference since I'll have the batteries anyway. Yes, this is hardcore.


----------



## mammal

Orlok said:


> The optimization process continues. Received the two RAVPower batteries and the DC cables from Amazon and hooked them up to the HMS and TT2 today and, yes, they make a noticeable difference. Like the SC cable, it's not something that makes you say "Wow!" or anything like that but once you sit back and really listen, the improvement is substantial.


Nice to read that! I guess the next logical upgrade would be OPTO DX or Wave cables for your HMS -> HTT2, or you already have that?


----------



## Orlok (May 1, 2021)

mammal said:


> Nice to read that! I guess the next logical upgrade would be OPTO DX or Wave cables for your HMS -> HTT2, or you already have that?


It seems the batteries would negate the need for these since the purpose of such components and cable is to eliminate/reduce RFI/EMI noise. But I can't say I know for sure. As of now, I'm not planning on making further changes/additions to the HMS -> TT2 connection.


----------



## ra990

Orlok said:


> It seems the batteries would negate the need for these since the purpose of such components and cable is to eliminate/reduce RFI/EMI noise. But I can't say I know for sure. As of now, I'm not planning on making further changes/additions on the HMS -> TT2 connection.


That's correct, you'd be spending money to allegedly fix a problem you've eliminated by isolating your system from the mains altogether.


----------



## ra990

Orlok said:


> The optimization process continues. Received the two RAVPower batteries and the DC cables from Amazon and hooked them up to the HMS and TT2 today and, yes, they make a noticeable difference. Like the SC cable, it's not something that makes you say "Wow!" or anything like that but once you sit back and really listen, the improvement is substantial.
> 
> The treble is even smoother and sweeter, imaging is noticeably improved with greater separation between the voice(s) and instruments, the background is definitely blacker, and the fine micro details are further magnified. Hard to believe but true... Thanks to @ra990 and @Gadget67 for providing guidance with this setup. The more you get into this hobby, the more you realize that every little detail matters although some more than others.
> 
> ...


Really love the use of that beautiful wood Abyss box!


----------



## Litlgi74 (May 1, 2021)

ra990 said:


> Really love the use of that beautiful wood Abyss box!



I really don't understand why Abyss uses this box... I think a Pelican case would be much more useful.


----------



## Slim1970

Litlgi74 said:


> I really don't understand why Abyss uses this box... I think a Pelican case would be much more useful.


I think they all should come with the leather bag. It should be standard.


----------



## Gadget67

Litlgi74 said:


> I really don't understand why Abyss uses this box... I think a Pelican case would be much more useful.





Slim1970 said:


> I think they all should come with the leather bag. It should be standard.


…and I’d like it shrink wrapped with no stock cable for $1,000 less!  Honestly most of this just ends up being stored indefinitely in my basement.  That said, I also like unboxing a nice package but that wears off pretty quickly.


----------



## new2mus

Orlok said:


> The optimization process continues. Received the two RAVPower batteries and the DC cables from Amazon and hooked them up to the HMS and TT2 today and, yes, they make a noticeable difference. Like the SC cable, it's not something that makes you say "Wow!" or anything like that but once you sit back and really listen, the improvement is substantial.
> 
> The treble is even smoother and sweeter, imaging is noticeably improved with greater separation between the voice(s) and instruments, the background is definitely blacker, and the fine micro details are further magnified. Hard to believe but true... Thanks to @ra990 and @Gadget67 for providing guidance with this setup. The more you get into this hobby, the more you realize that every little detail matters although some more than others.
> 
> ...


I was thinking about using batteries even for my home set up as well. Do these have pass through for those times when they need to be charged?


----------



## ra990

new2mus said:


> I was thinking about using batteries even for my home set up as well. Do these have pass through for those times when they need to be charged?


Yes, they do and that comes in handy those nights I forget to plug them in to recharge for the next day.


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> The optimization process continues. Received the two RAVPower batteries and the DC cables from Amazon and hooked them up to the HMS and TT2 today and, yes, they make a noticeable difference. Like the SC cable, it's not something that makes you say "Wow!" or anything like that but once you sit back and really listen, the improvement is substantial.
> 
> The treble is even smoother and sweeter, imaging is noticeably improved with greater separation between the voice(s) and instruments, the background is definitely blacker, and the fine micro details are further magnified. Hard to believe but true... Thanks to @ra990 and @Gadget67 for providing guidance with this setup. The more you get into this hobby, the more you realize that every little detail matters although some more than others.
> 
> ...


Well, @ra990 deserves the credit here.  The blacker background was the convincer for me; the total absence of anything between songs was just awe inspiring.  Your comments are totally in line with my experience.  A Tesla power wall with some solar panels and you can totally go off the grid.  Enjoy your RV vacation!


----------



## ra990

Gadget67 said:


> Well, @ra990 deserves the credit here.  The blacker background was the convincer for me; the total absence of anything between songs was just awe inspiring.  Your comments are totally in line with my experience.  A Tesla power wall with some solar panels and you can totally go off the grid.  Enjoy your RV vacation!


The TT2's factory provided power supplies are suspect and when it ruined my TT2, making it click non-stop and unable to complete startup, the only thing that worked was this battery. So, to me, the battery seems like it's a better power supply than what is provided. The additional benefits of isolation are great, especially if you can isolate your entire chain. I have optical coming in from my PC into MScaler, which is also powered by battery. So, unless I'm using one of my amps with the TT2, it's completely free of any mains noise, EMI/RF, and there is no listening fatigue. I also live in a very rural area with neighbors really far away, but even then I notice the benefits. If you live in an area with lots of neighbors, apartment buildings, etc, definitely try this battery. Also, it used to be about $300 and each time I check Amazon comes down in price a bit, so I have a couple of backup units as well


----------



## Gadget67 (May 1, 2021)

ra990 said:


> The TT2's factory provided power supplies are suspect and when it ruined my TT2, making it click non-stop and unable to complete startup, the only thing that worked was this battery. So, to me, the battery seems like it's a better power supply than what is provided. The additional benefits of isolation are great, especially if you can isolate your entire chain. I have optical coming in from my PC into MScaler, which is also powered by battery. So, unless I'm using one of my amps with the TT2, it's completely free of any mains noise, EMI/RF, and there is no listening fatigue. I also live in a very rural area with neighbors really far away, but even then I notice the benefits. If you live in an area with lots of neighbors, apartment buildings, etc, definitely try this battery. Also, it used to be about $300 and each time I check Amazon comes down in price a bit, so I have a couple of backup units as well


I concur with all you’ve said.  I also live in a very rural area and simply assumed incorrectly that RFI wouldn’t be an issue.  I still power my TT2 with the supplied PSU but I did change the power cable to an AudioQuest NRG-Y2 low distortion two pole AC power cable.  Don’t know if it made a difference but it sure is substantial and has a three prong plug with a ground.  I haven’t experienced clicking though on a couple of occasions I simply got a red light visible in the top clear area and nothing happened When I turned it on at the device.  I used the power on button on the remote and all was good.  Here’s my picture comparing the Audioquest cable to the supplied cable from my M-Scaler before moving to the battery:


----------



## new2mus

ra990 said:


> The TT2's factory provided power supplies are suspect and when it ruined my TT2, making it click non-stop and unable to complete startup, the only thing that worked was this battery. So, to me, the battery seems like it's a better power supply than what is provided. The additional benefits of isolation are great, especially if you can isolate your entire chain. I have optical coming in from my PC into MScaler, which is also powered by battery. So, unless I'm using one of my amps with the TT2, it's completely free of any mains noise, EMI/RF, and there is no listening fatigue. I also live in a very rural area with neighbors really far away, but even then I notice the benefits. If you live in an area with lots of neighbors, apartment buildings, etc, definitely try this battery. Also, it used to be about $300 and each time I check Amazon comes down in price a bit, so I have a couple of backup units as well


Are you using a PC with an internal or external sound card for optical out? Something like this https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Adapter-External-Sound-Digital/dp/B002LM0U2S? I'm thinking about using my old Surface Pro and the USB from it to the MScaler doesn't work as well as optical from my Bluesound Node 2 to MScaler.  Also, would an optical cable like this (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001D1A8KM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) work well or do you have another recommendation.


----------



## Orlok (May 1, 2021)

ra990 said:


> The TT2's factory provided power supplies are suspect and when it ruined my TT2, making it click non-stop and unable to complete startup, the only thing that worked was this battery. So, to me, the battery seems like it's a better power supply than what is provided. The additional benefits of isolation are great, especially if you can isolate your entire chain. I have optical coming in from my PC into MScaler, which is also powered by battery. So, unless I'm using one of my amps with the TT2, it's completely free of any mains noise, EMI/RF, and there is no listening fatigue. I also live in a very rural area with neighbors really far away, but even then I notice the benefits. If you live in an area with lots of neighbors, apartment buildings, etc, definitely try this battery. Also, it used to be about $300 and each time I check Amazon comes down in price a bit, so I have a couple of backup units as well


Yes, the improvement is greater than I expected. I've been experiencing a lot of that lately. Haha. I guess that's what keeps you going. It's a warmer, smoother, and more lush sound but the resolution and imaging are improved too. I'm beginning to understand that this pursuit of the "better" sound is about getting more "analog" and removing the "digital" and "electronic" artifacts from the signal chain as much as possible. I also find that I can listen a lot louder than I used to due to the smoother and clearer highs. I used to average 75dB with 81~83dB peaks and now it's 80dB average with peaks going up to 87dB with no spiky treble or ear fatigue at all. How beautiful all this is!


----------



## Gadget67 (May 1, 2021)

Orlok said:


> Yes, the improvement is greater than I expected. I've been experiencing a lot of that lately. Haha. I guess that's what keeps you going. It's a warmer, smoother, and more lush sound but the resolution and imaging are improved too. I'm beginning to understand that this pursuit of the "better" sound is about getting more "analog" and removing the "digital" and "electronic" artifacts from the signal chain as much as possible. I also find that I can listen to a lot louder than I used to due to the smoother and clearer highs. I used to average 75dB with 81~83dB peaks and now it's 80dB average with peaks going up to 87dB with no spiky treble or ear fatigue at all. How beautiful all this is!


Yep!  I’m actually listening to my speakers (Totem Forest, Storm sub) at the moment; these changes make a significant difference there as well.  My wife (no audiophile for sure) doesn’t like headphones so the 2.1 system is obviously her preference.  She noticed the difference immediately after I switched to the battery for the M-Scaler.  My wife is literally the canary in the coal mine and is generally oblivious to some of the subtler changes I’ve made.  The fact that she noticed the battery change immediately just speaks volumes, trust me!  Hand to God she wanted to know why it suddenly sounded better and that’s when I told her about the battery change.

Edit: Now if only my headphones would ship I’d really be a happy camper (no RV required).


----------



## Pashmeister (May 2, 2021)

Hello, I have Norne Audio Silvergrade S3 cable that I use for my HEKse. May I ask if an adaptor to connect it to Abyss 1266 will deteriorate the sound? Would I be better off using stock cable or will S3 + adaptor still be a good option? I want to ask the forum before I buy such adaptors. Thanks!


----------



## JLoud

Quality connectors should not degrade sound. I use Norne made adapters for my Silvergarde cables. Trevor will make the adapters to match your cables.


----------



## Pashmeister

ra990 said:


> Because I previously fried a TT2 with that exact one.
> 
> Check that only pins 2 and 3 are connected on any adapter that you buy. Ask the manufacturer or get a meter to verify.


Thank you for the guidance. I have confirmed with the manufacturer that only pins 2 and 3 are connected. The adapter from Amazon has arrived and it was easy enough to unscrew and confirm this for the connections. Quite inexpensive compared to the alternatives.


----------



## ra990 (May 3, 2021)

Pashmeister said:


> Thank you for the guidance. I have confirmed with the manufacturer that only pins 2 and 3 are connected. The adapter from Amazon has arrived and it was easy enough to unscrew and confirm this for the connections. Quite inexpensive compared to the alternatives.


Cool, they must have changed the wiring after getting complaints from people who fried equipment! Good to know and it was smart of you to unscrew and verify.

EDIT: actually I just checked my Amazon history and found that the one I ordered was from a different manufacturer, despite appearing very similar.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018ZN9IXI <-- This is the one that will fry your TT2, DO NOT USE with TT2

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZP6XJSF <-- This one appears to be wired correctly for use with the TT2
_(but still check by unscrewing the 4-pin/female connector like @Pashmeister did to be safe)_


----------



## TDinCali

Orlok said:


> 75dB with 81~83dB peaks and now it's 80dB average with peaks going up to 87dB with no spiky treble or ear fatigue at all. How beautiful all this is


I'm scared to even find out how loud I listen to music. What do you use to determine the level? In case I want to find out how deaf I am....


----------



## DJJEZ

TDinCali said:


> I'm scared to even find out how loud I listen to music. What do you use to determine the level? In case I want to find out how deaf I am....


----------



## Orlok

TDinCali said:


> I'm scared to even find out how loud I listen to music. What do you use to determine the level? In case I want to find out how deaf I am....


I have an app called 'dB Meter' and I think it's pretty good. It's something I use a lot in a variety of situations - including at trade shows like NAMM (musical instruments trade show at Nashville and Anaheim every year) to make sure our booth isn't cranking out too much noise. For music listeners and musicians, it's a good app to have. There's a bunch similar apps in the App Store.


----------



## mammal

So my dealer just wrote me that my AB-1266 are ready to be picked up. How are others doing, still waiting?


----------



## Pashmeister

mammal said:


> So my dealer just wrote me that my AB-1266 are ready to be picked up. How are others doing, still waiting?


Expecting my delivery within the month


----------



## InTune321

mammal said:


> So my dealer just wrote me that my AB-1266 are ready to be picked up. How are others doing, still waiting?


Week 6 and still waiting


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> So my dealer just wrote me that my AB-1266 are ready to be picked up. How are others doing, still waiting?


Yes, unfortunately.  Ordered mine March 12.


----------



## JLoud

In the grand scheme of things waiting for headphones is a minor problem. Having said that, isn't it just excruciating!


----------



## new2mus

Gadget67 said:


> Yep!  I’m actually listening to my speakers (Totem Forest, Storm sub) at the moment; these changes make a significant difference there as well.  My wife (no audiophile for sure) doesn’t like headphones so the 2.1 system is obviously her preference.  She noticed the difference immediately after I switched to the battery for the M-Scaler.  My wife is literally the canary in the coal mine and is generally oblivious to some of the subtler changes I’ve made.  The fact that she noticed the battery change immediately just speaks volumes, trust me!  Hand to God she wanted to know why it suddenly sounded better and that’s when I told her about the battery change.
> 
> Edit: Now if only my headphones would ship I’d really be a happy camper (no RV required).


You guys made me order a couple of the batteries. 

I had to justify it as backup power for power outages and camping with my wife. She gave me that look of I know what you're doing but whatever ...


----------



## new2mus

Also, I remember Rob Watts saying somewhere that he uses this as a portable battery to power his Mscaler and/or Hugo 2 on planes/while traveling.


----------



## Spawn300Z

new2mus said:


> Also, I remember Rob Watts saying somewhere that he uses this as a portable battery to power his Mscaler and/or Hugo 2 on planes/while traveling.


Your link isn’t working.


----------



## new2mus

Spawn300Z said:


> Your link isn’t working.


Sorry about that.Try this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...b&pd_rd_w=dzdm6&pd_rd_wg=lWxA7&ref_=pd_gw_unk


----------



## Orlok

new2mus said:


> You guys made me order a couple of the batteries.
> 
> I had to justify it as backup power for power outages and camping with my wife. She gave me that look of I know what you're doing but whatever ...


It's an economical high-value investment for the amount of return you get in SQ improvement. I'm very happy with the results. But, yeah, they really are good to have around for other usage cases too! There's _always_ a way to justify the improvements we make to our setups.


----------



## Orlok

JLoud said:


> In the grand scheme of things waiting for headphones is a minor problem. Having said that, isn't it just excruciating!


I was lucky that my wait was only around 3 weeks. I think I ordered just before a huge surge of new orders from all around the world. First world problem for sure but it can really weigh on your mind when you have such high anticipation for something. What makes it really hard is when the ETA gets pushed back. Believe me, I've been through this a lot waiting more than 6 months for custom guitars in the past. But, hang in there! Y'all will end up valuing the TC even more when you finally receive it.


----------



## new2mus (May 4, 2021)

Orlok said:


> It's an economical high-value investment for the amount of return you get in SQ improvement. I'm very happy with the results. But, yeah, they really are good to have around for other usage cases too! There's _always_ a way to justify the improvements we make to our setups.



@Orlok  I see you are using the Audiophonics LPA-S400ET to drive the SR1a. Have you tried the HSA-1b? Any thoughts between the two? I am debating whether I should upgrade to the HSA-1b from Jot R or go the amp route.


----------



## Orlok

new2mus said:


> @Orlok  I see you are using the Audiophonics LPA-S400ET to drive the SR1a. Have you tried the HSA-1b? Any thoughts between the two? I am debating whether I should upgrade to the HSA-1b from Jot R or go the amp route.


No, I have not tried the HSA-1b. It was just out of my budget and I already had the TToby so I went with the amp route and it sounded great but a bit underpowered for the SR1a. TToby worked out like a dream for the TC so I decided to use it strictly for driving the TC and get the LPA-S400ET to drive the SR1a and the speakers. So far so good. It isn't quite as transparent and musical as the TToby but, for the price, I can't complain. It's in the range of the Parasound A23+ I replaced with the TToby. For the SR1a, the LPA-S400SET is warmer with bigger and tighter lows than the TToby and that's what I needed. The SR1a really didn't more transparency.

I think HSA-1b is the "safe" route for now. Rolling amps is an expensive proposition and you really don't know if a particular amp will have that synergy you are looking for with the SR1a. The TToby definitely has it for me for the TC but not for the SR1a. The $1500 LPA-S400ET turned out to be the better amp for it but I'm sure there are better (obviously, more expensive) alternatives. Based on what I've read, SR1a owners with the HSA-1b seem very happy with it although there's also the contingent who prefer using amps but those amps can get up to $10K or more so the HSA-1b makes a lot of sense if you can swing it.


----------



## new2mus

Orlok said:


> No, I have not tried the HSA-1b. It was just out of my budget and I already had the TToby so I went with the amp route and it sounded great but a bit underpowered for the SR1a. TToby worked out like a dream for the TC so I decided to use it strictly for driving the TC and get the LPA-S400ET to drive the SR1a and the speakers. So far so good. It isn't quite as transparent and musical as the TToby but, for the price, I can't complain. It's in the range of the Parasound A23+ I replaced with the TToby. For the SR1a, the LPA-S400SET is warmer with bigger and tighter lows than the TToby and that's what I needed. The SR1a really didn't more transparency.
> 
> I think HSA-1b is the "safe" route for now. Rolling amps is an expensive proposition and you really don't know if a particular amp will have that synergy you are looking for with the SR1a. The TToby definitely has it for me for the TC but not for the SR1a. The $1500 LPA-S400ET turned out to be the better amp for it but I'm sure there are better (obviously, more expensive) alternatives. Based on what I've read, SR1a owners with the HSA-1b seem very happy with it although there's also the contingent who prefer using amps but those amps can get up to $10K or more so the HSA-1b makes a lot of sense if you can swing it.


Thank you for taking the time to help. I've got some thinking to do.


----------



## paradoxper

new2mus said:


> Thank you for taking the time to help. I've got some thinking to do.


Add TC with SR1a, sweat those other upgrades later.


----------



## Gadget67

new2mus said:


> You guys made me order a couple of the batteries.
> 
> I had to justify it as backup power for power outages and camping with my wife. She gave me that look of I know what you're doing but whatever ...





new2mus said:


> @Orlok  I see you are using the Audiophonics LPA-S400ET to drive the SR1a. Have you tried the HSA-1b? Any thoughts between the two? I am debating whether I should upgrade to the HSA-1b from Jot R or go the amp route.


What look did you get from your wife when you brought up the HSA-1b


----------



## alcarvalho

Mine was just delivered on this last Sunday. Took 2 full months.


----------



## JLoud

I know many have commented on the new headband but I have a quick question. I currently have the old style, the TC sits a little low on my ears. Will the new style with stock o-ring fix that? I constantly have to adjust them up.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

JLoud said:


> I know many have commented on the new headband but I have a quick question. I currently have the old style, the TC sits a little low on my ears. Will the new style with stock o-ring fix that? I constantly have to adjust them up.


It doesn't solve it fully, but it's better IMO. At the very least you can get smaller o-rings


----------



## paradoxper

JLoud said:


> I know many have commented on the new headband but I have a quick question. I currently have the old style, the TC sits a little low on my ears. Will the new style with stock o-ring fix that? I constantly have to adjust them up.


All this time! Tsk!!!!  🤣


----------



## MatW

JLoud said:


> I know many have commented on the new headband but I have a quick question. I currently have the old style, the TC sits a little low on my ears. Will the new style with stock o-ring fix that? I constantly have to adjust them up.


The new headband is a big improvement in my experience. Playing around with different sizes o rings is most likely necessary to get the best fit.


----------



## new2mus

Gadget67 said:


> What look did you get from your wife when you brought up the HSA-1b


I haven't said anything about it. Why start a battle prematurely. If I decide for sure, I'll suit up in my best armor.


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> I was lucky that my wait was only around 3 weeks. I think I ordered just before a huge surge of new orders from all around the world. First world problem for sure but it can really weigh on your mind when you have such high anticipation for something. What makes it really hard is when the ETA gets pushed back. Believe me, I've been through this a lot waiting more than 6 months for custom guitars in the past. But, hang in there! *Y'all will end up valuing the TC even more when you finally receive it. *


Yes, especially with all those great improvements they’ve made since December!


----------



## Gadget67

new2mus said:


> I haven't said anything about it. Why start a battle prematurely. If I decide for sure, I'll suit up in my best armor.


Show her an amp that costs twice as much and then settle for the HSA-b1.  You‘ll be a hero!


----------



## leftside (May 4, 2021)

Picked up a pair of Abyss TC today on the local used market. I’m very impressed with the sound. Like all the adjustments you can do. More comfortable than my LCD4.

My amp builder says this amp does 2.2 watts at 50 ohms.


----------



## JLoud

I like the meters. And 11 tubes? Sweet.


----------



## leftside

JLoud said:


> I like the meters. And 11 tubes? Sweet.


Only a max of 8 used at a time though  Can select different drivers via the selection knob on the front.


----------



## JLoud

That is very cool. I've never seen an amp quite like that. Nice.


----------



## SuperBurrito

JLoud said:


> I know many have commented on the new headband but I have a quick question. I currently have the old style, the TC sits a little low on my ears. Will the new style with stock o-ring fix that? I constantly have to adjust them up.


I think so.
I have the opposite problem with the TCs.  I have a medium size head. and the headband seems like it was made for a small head.  The headband and o-rings are so short/tight for me that the headband barely bends.  Abyss said that it is supposed to strech a bit after some weeks and get more comfortable.  But I ordered some longer o-rings from Amazon just in case and will report back.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

But if it bends to much the headphone sits too low on your head. I have a rather large head and I don't think it's made for small ones. Maybe throw nuggets on the sides for comfort?


----------



## SuperBurrito

DuncanDirkDick said:


> But if it bends to much the headphone sits too low on your head. I have a rather large head and I don't think it's made for small ones. Maybe throw nuggets on the sides for comfort?


Right now my headband is so tight that it does not bend.  It goes straight across, so it only touches my head at one small spot.
I'll try the longer o-rings today...if that doesn't work I'll try the nuggets.  Thanks for your feedback.


----------



## JLoud

Do you put the nuggets on the edges of the pad? I’ve seen the on regular headbands but never thought of using the with the Abyss. Definitely cheaper than a new headband.


----------



## cangle (May 5, 2021)

Hey everyone, just placed an order for the 1266 lite version direct from Abyss. I emailed them a week or so ago and they said that the time to ship is approximately 3-4 weeks but I've read that some of you have been waiting much longer than that so I'll see how it goes.

My amp is not ideal but I thought I'd invest in the headphones I want first then adjust my amplification and source gear. The amp I will use at first is the FA-12. I've used it with the HE-6 SE and the volume output is sufficient but I'm sure I'll be missing some dynamics and slam that I might get from a more powerful amp. If there's an amp (less than 2k) that I should consider let me know. I've thought about picking up the FA-10 but think it would be better to put money towards a nicer amp. Amps I've considered saving for are the AHB2 and a preamp or the upcoming Flux Volot.


----------



## leftside (May 5, 2021)

cangle said:


> Hey everyone, just placed an order for the 1266 lite version direct from Abyss. I emailed them a week or so ago and they said that the time to ship is approximately 3-4 weeks but I've read that some of you have been waiting much longer than that so I'll see how it goes.
> 
> My amp is not ideal but I thought I'd invest in the headphones I want first then adjust my amplification and source gear. The amp I will use at first is the FA-12. I've used it with the HE-6 SE and the volume output is sufficient but I'm sure I'll be missing some dynamics and slam that I might get from a more powerful amp. If there's an amp (less than 2k) that I should consider let me know. I've thought about picking up the FA-10 but think it would be better to put money towards a nicer amp. Amps I've considered saving for are the AHB2 and a preamp or the upcoming Flux Volot.


Unfortunately, I've found that to maximize any piece of gear, the surrounding components should be at a similar price point (eventually). I say "eventually", as it can be very difficult to do it all at once when one of those components (such as the Abyss) are around $5k. It's taken me many years, but it's been a lot of fun along the way with each upgrade. For $2k I'm sure you can still find a really nice amp though - especially if you consider a custom build. Have you considered any of the custom builders on here? Might be a longer wait list over an off the shelf amp though.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

JLoud said:


> Do you put the nuggets on the edges of the pad? I’ve seen the on regular headbands but never thought of using the with the Abyss. Definitely cheaper than a new headband.


Maybe not right in the corner but near the edge. I guess you have to test that for your head shape


----------



## cangle

leftside said:


> Unfortunately, I've found that to maximize any piece of gear, the surrounding components should be at a similar price point (eventually). I say "eventually", as it can be very difficult to do it all at once when one of those components (such as the Abyss) are around $5k. It's taken me many years, but it's been a lot of fun along the way with each upgrade. For $2k I'm sure you can still find a really nice amp though - especially if you consider a custom build. Have you considered any of the custom builders on here? Might be a longer wait list over an off the shelf amp though.


Yeah I'm looking forward to the process of scaling up my gear to meet the demands or resolving capabilities of the Abyss. This will probably take place over the next couple of years but I'd prefer to start with the headphones as I'd mentioned then another part of my system.

I didn't realize there were amp builders here on head-fi. Is there a way to see what's available from these builders?


----------



## DJJEZ

cangle said:


> Hey everyone, just placed an order for the 1266 lite version direct from Abyss. I emailed them a week or so ago and they said that the time to ship is approximately 3-4 weeks but I've read that some of you have been waiting much longer than that so I'll see how it goes.
> 
> My amp is not ideal but I thought I'd invest in the headphones I want first then adjust my amplification and source gear. The amp I will use at first is the FA-12. I've used it with the HE-6 SE and the volume output is sufficient but I'm sure I'll be missing some dynamics and slam that I might get from a more powerful amp. If there's an amp (less than 2k) that I should consider let me know. I've thought about picking up the FA-10 but think it would be better to put money towards a nicer amp. Amps I've considered saving for are the AHB2 and a preamp or the upcoming Flux Volot.


I'm nearly at 8 weeks waiting for mine but I'm also from the UK which I'm sure gets less priority lol


----------



## SonicFade

I’m the type of person that likes to walk around when listening. I’m okay with the bulky-ness of these headphones, but would it be practical to be on the move, in my house with these? Or do I need to stay sitting down or they’ll fall off?


----------



## leftside

cangle said:


> Yeah I'm looking forward to the process of scaling up my gear to meet the demands or resolving capabilities of the Abyss. This will probably take place over the next couple of years but I'd prefer to start with the headphones as I'd mentioned then another part of my system.
> 
> I didn't realize there were amp builders here on head-fi. Is there a way to see what's available from these builders?



These are the three that I know of. I have a 1101 Audio amp and a Glenn amp. I don't think Glenn is making amps any more though and A2029/Mischa/1101 Audio has a quite a long backlog. Unsure about Oblivion.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1101-audio-custom-crafted-headphone-amps.919425/page-47
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/oblivion-ultrasonic-studios.902926/page-144
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2359glenn-studio.600110/page-2588


----------



## JLoud

DuncanDirkDick said:


> But if it bends to much the headphone sits too low on your head. I have a rather large head and I don't think it's made for small ones. Maybe throw nuggets on the sides for comfort?


Well, ordered some Nuggets, I'll see how those work. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## mammal

JLoud said:


> Well, ordered some Nuggets, I'll see how those work. Thanks for the suggestion.


I had to re-read the forum just to figure out what the heck you are talking about, I thought you ordered some KFC 🙃


----------



## JLoud

Those too. When I bend my head over to eat a chicken leg my TC slides forward. I can just pop a nugget in my mouth without moving my head.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

JLoud said:


> Do you put the nuggets on the edges of the pad? I’ve seen the on regular headbands but never thought of using the with the Abyss. Definitely cheaper than a new headband.


Well, I use the nuggets with the new band and they still improve comfort, it is a really nice product. I placed them at the edge of the headband which takes away some pressure from the top spot while cushioning up the sides. Feels good.


----------



## SonicFade

Perfect situation. If I get these headphones fit and I lean in for a nugget, will the fall off my head. I wish I could try these somewhere..


----------



## makan

JLoud said:


> Well, ordered some Nuggets, I'll see how those work. Thanks for the suggestion.


This is how the nuggets are placed for me..spares the centre hot spot


----------



## Ciggavelli

SuperBurrito said:


> Right now my headband is so tight that it does not bend.  It goes straight across, so it only touches my head at one small spot.
> I'll try the longer o-rings today...if that doesn't work I'll try the nuggets.  Thanks for your feedback.


I also have a big head.  I felt the same way as you did, prior to buying some larger O-Rings.  You can go on Amazon and pick up a variety pack for pretty cheap.  I used this one, and the size right above the stock o-ring size worked very well.  No more tightness issues

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GSKKHQM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> I had to re-read the forum just to figure out what the heck you are talking about, I thought you ordered some KFC 🙃


Won’t that work too?


----------



## leftside

I've seen lots of posts on here about how technically accurate these headphones are, but not many posts about how much fun they are! For the first listening session last night, by music choices were quite refined, but this evening I've been throwing everything from new skool goth rock driving guitars to hard electronic music at them. Fun!


----------



## JLoud

I actually really like the TC for modern pop and EDM. You can't get less refined than that. But it sure is fun to listen to with the Abyss.


----------



## OceanRanger

I'm not much on the EDM front, but today I haven't been able to stop listening to Marcus Miller M2. I am captivated by the base heard through the TCs.


----------



## Orlok (May 5, 2021)

leftside said:


> I've seen lots of posts on here about how technically accurate these headphones are, but not many posts about how much fun they are! For the first listening session last night, by music choices were quite refined, but this evening I've been throwing everything from new skool goth rock driving guitars to hard electronic music at them. Fun!


I find that I can enjoy pretty much every genre and style imaginable with the TC - especially after getting the SC cable. Now, classical, jazz, acoustic, vocals-centric and other really nuanced genres sound sublime. Of course, for rock, metal, electronic, OST, and modern pop, etc. the TC is super fun and exciting. I even find it great for lo-fi blues, classic rock, oldies and roots-oriented genres which I thought wouldn't benefit from super high resolution. I really didn't expect that. In fact, I thought I'd need to get some other less resolving HP for such genres.

Female vocals was the one area that I thought the TC could use a little more improvement and the SC cables (the RCA interconnects between the TT2 and TToby as well as for the TC) brought the mids out forward while smoothening out the highs for virtually perfect sound to my ears. It now sounds so well balanced that I do not need to touch the EQ at all. I always listen to the TC with it set completely flat. It can be technical and analytical for the genres that demand that and then just be outright fun when that's what the music calls for.


----------



## Ciggavelli (May 5, 2021)

Hip hop and grimy, power violence grindcore sound so good with the TCs. These “fun” genres really work well with the TCs. That bass  

But really, I haven’t found a single genre that sounds bad out of the TCs. It’s the only pair of headphones where everything sounds good.

I love the Susvaras, but they aren’t super great with hip-hop. They do everything else really well.  I also love the SR1as, but in no way can you listen to bass heavy genres and be as satisfied with the sound, especially compared to other headphones.

The trifecta of TCs, Susvaras, and Sr1as are all the “summit-fi” headphones one could want. (Yes, we could include the Utopias and LCD-4s, but I feel they are a slight level down below the trifecta. I need to critically examine those 2 headphones more in the future though, whenever they finally get shipped to me).

Still, with all these great headphones, the TCs are king. I can’t think of a single sound quality flaw. That may sound hyperbolic, but I think it’s true. The only real “flaw” of the TCs is a sometimes finicky fit. Though, with experience, finding the right fit quickly is fairly easy.

But, yeah.  The TCs are the current GOAT in my mind


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> Hip hop and grimy, power violence grindcore sound so good with the TCs. These “fun” genres really work well with the TCs. That bass
> 
> But really, I haven’t found a single genre that sounds bad out of the TCs. It’s the only pair of headphones where everything sounds good.
> 
> ...


Especially for metal, there is no peer. Everything sounds more alive, more physical, more real with the TC.

Otherwise the Susvara is mediocre and vastly surpassed by an SR009 and other stats. Supplement with the SR1a, ignore the middle-ground.


----------



## ra990

paradoxper said:


> Otherwise the Susvara is mediocre and vastly surpassed by an SR009 and other stats. Supplement with the SR1a, ignore the middle-ground.


----------



## FLTWS

I've contended for the last 50 years; there is no one transducer, speaker or headphone, that best suits all genres (or recording SQ's). Life is compromises and audio is no exception. I find having more than one HP with different sound palettes is most likely the best compromise for me and certainly easier than having 2 or 3 different sets of speakers to contend with. That's the beauty of headphones, with the understanding that they won't deliver an in-room experience like speakers anymore than speakers (or headphones) can deliver the live experience. I gave up the quest for "The One" decades ago. Now I embrace variety for a satisfying experience.


----------



## paradoxper

ra990 said:


>


I know. You really enjoy the Susvara.


----------



## JLoud

FLTWS said:


> I've contended for the last 50 years; there is no one transducer, speaker or headphone, that best suits all genres (or recording SQ's). Life is compromises and audio is no exception. I find having more than one HP with different sound palettes is most likely the best compromise for me and certainly easier than having 2 or 3 different sets of speakers to contend with. That's the beauty of headphones, with the understanding that they won't deliver an in-room experience like speakers anymore than speakers (or headphones) can deliver the live experience. I gave up the quest for "The One" decades ago. Now I embrace variety for a satisfying experience.


I’ve found that I just enjoy different headphones for different reasons. Sometimes it is for a particular type of music. Other times mood. Sometimes comfort or soundstage are most important. That is why I like having a stable of headphones.


----------



## mammal

Finally listening to my own AB-1266 Phi TC, so far so good, was really worried about the comfort (as I wear glasses) and no issues there whatsoever. The default cable is quite stiff, long and annoying (double cable), but I expected that, will be getting an aftermarket anyway. Plan to share some pictures and impressions with you, once I get used to them (and they burn in a bit). Will also compare HTT2's SE to XLR, if I hear any difference after volume matching or not, stay tuned.


----------



## JLoud

The stock cable is very good. If you don’t like the “2” cable part of it, I used small strips of Velcro to tie them together. Or you could use black electrical tape to see if that helps the ergonomics. Easy to reverse with no after effects.


----------



## Orlok

FLTWS said:


> I've contended for the last 50 years; there is no one transducer, speaker or headphone, that best suits all genres (or recording SQ's). Life is compromises and audio is no exception. I find having more than one HP with different sound palettes is most likely the best compromise for me and certainly easier than having 2 or 3 different sets of speakers to contend with. That's the beauty of headphones, with the understanding that they won't deliver an in-room experience like speakers anymore than speakers (or headphones) can deliver the live experience. I gave up the quest for "The One" decades ago. Now I embrace variety for a satisfying experience.


Yes, totally agree. I'm fairly new to the audiophile world although I've had nice HPs for 5~6 years now. It's only in the past year (with the pandemic perversely pushing me in this direction) that I started getting into TOTL headphones. What I draw from is my experience as an avid guitar player and guitar gear nerd (as well as industry professional) for over three decades. Coming from that side of the music creation and production side of the world, I had different expectations about hi-fi in that all high-end equipment would or _should_ sound very similar. But I've found that this is not the case at all. I've been amazed by how different these TOTL headphones sound. It's as different as how a Fender Stratocaster and a Gibson Les Paul sound and feel. They can also _look_ as different! Haha

This being said, we all have our personal tastes and gravitate towards one over another - especially when it comes to audio and sound. It was certainly that way for me with guitars and guitar amps. There's that old adage: "One man's honey is another one's poison" and vice versa. Everyone has their own audio and musical journey and it's an exciting experience. The audio experience has to intertwine with one's own musical preferences and tastes and that's where things get tricky: finding the right headphone(s) and gear that works the best _for you_. 

I once owned a dozen different electric guitars but came to realize that I only "need" 3 or 4 to cover what I wanted to play. I certainly didn't want to become a "collector" like some people who own dozens or even 100+ guitars. I would settle on one or two versatile custom-made guitars and one or two standard production model guitars that did some specific things really well. I find that I'm now doing the same with headphones. I'm going to want to have one or two "main" headphones and maybe a few that are "specialists" for different genres, moods, sonic character, types of recordings, etc.

I've found that I really click with the "Abyss House Sound" compared to many other brands I've tried in the past - both over-ears and in-ears: AKG, Audeze, Beyerdynamic, Bose, Etymotic, Grado, JH Audio, RHA, Sennheiser, Shure, Sony and more. Each company/brand really do have their own particular sound signature and some work for you and some don't. It's really hard to describe why one gravitates toward one sound over the other and that was exactly the same for me with guitars and guitar amps. I guess the same goes for why someone prefers a certain music genre over others. It's what makes all this so interesting. With computers and tech gadgets, you read the specs and you know what you're getting for your practical usage purposes. 

With audio, like musical instruments, you have to go with your own intuition more than the technical specs but, obviously, the specs matter too. It's about finding the balance of technical performance with your own personal preferences and tastes and that's not easy - even if one had an opportunity to try different headphones and other gear in person at trade shows or in stores. It takes at least a month or two - sometimes longer - to really know if a particular headphone or other gear will work for you or not. But, sometimes, you just know right away. Fortunately, for me, that turned out to be the case with the 1266 TC.


----------



## Orlok

Getting ready to take my setup completely off the grid.

And to prepare for the upcoming RV/camping trip. And to be ready for the next prolonged power outage.


----------



## jlbrach

people can argue subjective favorites but nobody can deny that the abyss TC is as good as or better than any other HP


----------



## SonicFade

Does anyone use these DAP/mobile? Can you move around with these on?


----------



## Litlgi74

SonicFade said:


> Does anyone use these DAP/mobile? Can you move around with these on?


You can... Probably not the best idea. You will definitely need a shorter more flexible cable.


----------



## Orlok (May 6, 2021)

Speaking of guitars, the good folks at Abyss/JPS asked me if I'd be interested in trying out a Superconductor V guitar cable! So I received a sample cable to try out through the mega guitar rig at work and, I have to say, it's simply the best guitar cable I have ever heard and tried and I've probably tried hundreds of different cables over the years. I have the rig set up with what I considered the best but this is at a whole different level.

The low-end is so much more defined, the mids clearer and superbly balanced with the lows and highs, and the treble is more extended but smoother. What I was hearing was one thing but the _feel_ as I played was even better. The pick attack was literally instantaneous and there was just more energy and a livelier feel. It felt like my hands were connected directly to the speakers and it conveyed every nuance of my playing with crystal clarity as well as musicality.

I can't wire this entire $20K+ rig with this cable but just one from the guitar is more than good enough. That's obviously what matters the most since that's where the signal starts. This just confirms the improvements I heard with the SC 4 for the RCA interconnects from the TT2 to the TToby as well as for the TC. I'll be sending the cable out to various pro artists to try out and get their feedback. Shall be interesting...

Attached are a few pics of the SC V guitar cable. I put a blue tape around one end since it's directional and that would be the side that connects to the guitar. No idea what the price would be but I guess it'd be roughly in line with the SC V interconnects. But, believe me, I've tried $1K+ guitar cables in the past and they do not compare to this.


----------



## DJJEZ

mammal said:


> Finally listening to my own AB-1266 Phi TC, so far so good, was really worried about the comfort (as I wear glasses) and no issues there whatsoever. The default cable is quite stiff, long and annoying (double cable), but I expected that, will be getting an aftermarket anyway. Plan to share some pictures and impressions with you, once I get used to them (and they burn in a bit). Will also compare HTT2's SE to XLR, if I hear any difference after volume matching or not, stay tuned.


Wow you got yours quick


----------



## mammal

@JLoud thank you for the tip about the electrical tape, I was able to tame the cable with this!

For those still waiting, let me tell you - the wait is worth it. Attaching some pictures for those who like unboxing experience.

Comparing to Diana V2, the comfort is surprisingly good. The headband is actually better, I am not getting any hot spots. Also somehow easier on me wearing glasses. I have pads on L2 and R10 and glasses fit nicely through it. I have an average head and when I have the band as close as possible, it is snug but no pressure on temples. When I pull it to the middle distance, it is perfect. On max it is quite loose. Somehow, I am even able to eat my morning cereal without headphones falling off my head. I guess I stroke gold with the fit, as it is perfect for my head shape. I feel bad for those who are less fortunate. As far as weight goes, I have no issues with it so far (after wearing nonstop for 4 hours). What I found strange is that other headphones are easier to put on my head, as you pul them apart, with these, I kinda need to squeeze my ears into them, or adjust the headband first. The only thing I do not like so far is how wide the headphones are from the cable perspective, it is hitting my shoulders when I turn my head. But that's about it. Much better than I originally expected. They really feel built like a tank.

So far I am listening on XLRs, to get accustomed to the sound, and will later try with SE to see if I can spot any difference. Will keep you posted.


----------



## mammal

Can anyone explain to me how is it possible that I am actually preferring to listen more quietly than ever before? I always used to blast volume so that I enjoy the music (think of Dan Clark's Ether headphones, where as you turn the volume up, you get more base). Even with Diana V2, I used to listen to quite loud. But now, with AB-1266, I am actually enjoying quieter listening sessions (for the same exact music). It sounds more musical to me, without lacking anything. Yes, I can add some power to the mix by increasing the volume, feeling base even more, but I find myself not needing it. I expected these headphones to be more resolving, but I did not expect this strange psychoacoustic magic, or is my mind playing tricks on me? Anyone has noticed the same? Thanks!


----------



## ra990

mammal said:


> Can anyone explain to me how is it possible that I am actually preferring to listen more quietly than ever before? I always used to blast volume so that I enjoy the music (think of Dan Clark's Ether headphones, where as you turn the volume up, you get more base). Even with Diana V2, I used to listen to quite loud. But now, with AB-1266, I am actually enjoying quieter listening sessions (for the same exact music). It sounds more musical to me, without lacking anything. Yes, I can add some power to the mix by increasing the volume, feeling base even more, but I find myself not needing it. I expected these headphones to be more resolving, but I did not expect this strange psychoacoustic magic, or is my mind playing tricks on me? Anyone has noticed the same? Thanks!


I have noticed that the Abyss still sound dynamic at low volumes. I was just thinking about this today as I had a bad headache and turned volume down really low but still enjoyed the music. With the Susvara, you have to pump up the volume for them to breathe and liven up.


----------



## mammal

ra990 said:


> I have noticed that the Abyss still sound dynamic at low volumes.


If this is true (which I think it makes absolutely sense) then buying AB-1266 is an investment in good health. Allowing me to listen at lower volumes, will preserve my hearing.


----------



## Pashmeister

mammal said:


> @JLoud thank you for the tip about the electrical tape, I was able to tame the cable with this!
> 
> For those still waiting, let me tell you - the wait is worth it. Attaching some pictures for those who like unboxing experience.
> 
> ...


i look forward to your impressions of SE vs XLR outs. I have read several who after volume matching se vs xlr, they found no difference which supports Rob Watt’s similar statement before. Se might just reach almost max volume in se though which is a little uncomfortable psychologically lol


----------



## mammal

Pashmeister said:


> Se might just reach almost max volume in se though which is a little uncomfortable psychologically


Oh yes for sure, I think this plays a role in comparison. One could feel like the amplifier is at its max, therefore there is no headroom left. Will do my best to volume match (with an iOS dB meter) so that loudness aspect goes away. I feel like I know what I am looking for when it comes to dynamics, as I have had Diana V2 on Hugo 2 with and without BX2-Plus and noticed that Hugo 2 was simply underpowered for the task. If I can reproduce the same with HTT2's XLR vs SE, then I will keep the adapter and use XLR, if not, more than happy to sell it and use front SE instead (I find adapters annoying and prefer direct connection wherever possible).


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> Getting ready to take my setup completely off the grid.
> 
> And to prepare for the upcoming RV/camping trip. And to be ready for the next prolonged power outage.


So, here is a bizarre pointless question.  If you connect the TT2 and M-Scaler in to the Jackery (or the RAV battery) using the OEM PSU’s, will that produce RFI?  Is it the PSU that is actually causes RFI?  Obviously I have too much time on my hands while I’m waiting for my headphones……….


----------



## ra990

Gadget67 said:


> So, here is a bizarre pointless question.  If you connect the TT2 and M-Scaler in to the Jackery (or the RAV battery) using the OEM PSU’s, will that produce RFI?  Is it the PSU that is actually causes RFI?  Obviously I have too much time on my hands while I’m waiting for my headphones……….


The DC to AC back to DC conversion on the battery will apparently produce noise. Battery has native DC out, so best to avoid any unnecessary conversion and tap into that directly for the cleanest power.


----------



## mammal

I will be the first one to admit - I just cried listening to *Eric Prydz - Opus* (don't judge me). The first time in my life I heard soundstage hight in an electronic song. I knew what width and to a lesser degree depth is, but never hight. I am in love with AB-1266.


----------



## Orlok

ra990 said:


> The DC to AC back to DC conversion on the battery will apparently produce noise. Battery has native DC out, so best to avoid any unnecessary conversion and tap into that directly for the cleanest power.


I'll only be using the RAV batteries for HMS and TT2 and I got the Jackery to connect the TToby to it (mainly for the RV trip, really) but I'll try at home first. This gives me a chance to experiment of taking the entire signal chain off of the mains. I'll also run the MBP by battery only and disconnect the monitors and see what effect doing all this has. I consider this an experiment and do not expect to achieve the same result that the RAV batteries had with HMS and TT2. What I'm most curious about is if the TToby will sound any different/better/quieter connected to the Jackery.


----------



## Orlok

mammal said:


> I will be the first one to admit - I just cried listening to *Eric Prydz - Opus* (don't judge me). The first time in my life I heard soundstage hight in an electronic song. I knew what width and to a lesser degree depth is, but never hight. I am in love with AB-1266.


Welcome to the TC club. I'd say that getting those goosebumps, chills and a few tears is the "high" that we all shoot for in this hobby.   

I had that moment recently listening to Tori Amos' 'Native Invaders' album and the track 'Bang'. Pretty epic and I'm sure it won't be too everyone's tastes but, man, this is musical creativity at an extremely high level. Just sounds immense as well as emotional through the TC.


----------



## DJJEZ

mammal said:


> Can anyone explain to me how is it possible that I am actually preferring to listen more quietly than ever before? I always used to blast volume so that I enjoy the music (think of Dan Clark's Ether headphones, where as you turn the volume up, you get more base). Even with Diana V2, I used to listen to quite loud. But now, with AB-1266, I am actually enjoying quieter listening sessions (for the same exact music). It sounds more musical to me, without lacking anything. Yes, I can add some power to the mix by increasing the volume, feeling base even more, but I find myself not needing it. I expected these headphones to be more resolving, but I did not expect this strange psychoacoustic magic, or is my mind playing tricks on me? Anyone has noticed the same? Thanks!


This is awesome to hear as I normally listen very loud to get better bass on the arya.


----------



## jlbrach

ra990 said:


> I have noticed that the Abyss still sound dynamic at low volumes. I was just thinking about this today as I had a bad headache and turned volume down really low but still enjoyed the music. With the Susvara, you have to pump up the volume for them to breathe and liven up.


agreed, the susvara requires higher volume IMHO to bring out its best


----------



## JLoud

Well got my Dekoni nuggets today. Put two of them on the outside edge of the headband about an inch from the ends. Seems to work pretty well. Raised up the headphones and are pretty comfortable.


----------



## donato

JLoud said:


> Well got my Dekoni nuggets today. Put two of them on the outside edge of the headband about an inch from the ends. Seems to work pretty well. Raised up the headphones and are pretty comfortable.


I do the same.  I needed for comfort (hot spot on top of head) and to better position them relative to my ear (small head).


----------



## JLoud

I got a hot spot as well with the headband. I’ll have to see if the nuggets fix it. Just a short test seamed pretty comfortable.


----------



## Orlok

So, I had been raving about the TC to my boss/owner/partner and good friend based in Sweden and he said he fancies getting a nice headphone as well but something more compact and portable. I advised him that the Diana Phi along with the WA11 will be perfect and he agreed. Well, this rig arrived today and I've had about a few hours with it so far and, as I expected, I'm going to want the exact same setup.

Pre-pandemic, I was traveling to Asia 3~4 times per year for 2~3 weeks at a time visiting suppliers and also all around the US every other month visiting dealers/customers. Eventually, I'll be doing this again when things return to normal and I _know_ that I'm going to want to take the "Abyss House Sound" with me wherever I go. Heck, I can even take this little system on my daily 7-mile hikes around the local mountains. The Audeze LCDi4 is great for nature walks but it doesn't quite compare to this.

I'll be getting the Diana Phi and WA11 for myself very soon. But it means that I can't keep everything and I have parted with the LCD-4. It's a great HP but after I got the SC cables for the TC and my system, I found that I really wouldn't be listening with it much anymore. In a perfect world with unlimited budget, it would have stayed but that just isn't the reality. I can only have so many HPs around.

The Diana Phi with the WA11 will get a _lot_ of my listening time when I'm away from home - at the office, during my nature walks and for travel (both for business and for pleasure). I'm going to break and burn in this little rig for my boss/friend over the weekend and then I'll be getting it for myself very soon. I have to prepare for the post-pandemic future.


----------



## SonicFade

Orlok said:


> So, I had been raving about the TC to my boss/owner/partner and good friend based in Sweden and he said he fancies getting a nice headphone as well but something more compact and portable. I advised him that the Diana Phi along with the WA11 will be perfect and he agreed. Well, this rig arrived today and I've had about a few hours with it so far and, as I expected, I'm going to want the exact same setup.
> 
> Pre-pandemic, I was traveling to Asia 3~4 times per year for 2~3 weeks at a time visiting suppliers and also all around the US every other month visiting dealers/customers. Eventually, I'll be doing this again when things return to normal and I _know_ that I'm going to want to take the "Abyss House Sound" with me wherever I go. Heck, I can even take this little system on my daily 7-mile hikes around the local mountains. The Audeze LCDi4 is great for nature walks but it doesn't quite compare to this.
> 
> ...



can I ask why you didn’t go with a Android based dap? More bang for you buck?

it would seem awkward to change songs on the fly while you’re walking, pulling out your phone and trying not to disturb the amp and cables.

im always looking for portable situations


----------



## Orlok (May 8, 2021)

SonicFade said:


> can I ask why you didn’t go with a Android based dap? More bang for you buck?
> 
> it would seem awkward to change songs on the fly while you’re walking, pulling out your phone and trying not to disturb the amp and cables.
> 
> im always looking for portable situations


First and foremost, it was about the sound quality and the WA11 simply seemed like the best synergistic match for the Diana Phi, both in power and in tonality. I read as many reviews about the WA11 as I can and it also says says something that Abyss offers it on their own website as the ideal match for the Diana Phi and V2. Second, I'm an Apple guy and want to use the iPhone with Qobuz and Onkyo apps without having to set up a whole new DAP system. For walking and hiking, I'll play certain set playlists on shuffle and that's what I'll listen to. It would be very rare that I'll have to pull out the phone to skip a track. Of course, what I do won't apply to everyone.

My initial impression of the Diana Phi and WA11 combo is that it is indeed very synergistic. This is a little setup that I can be very happy with anywhere and at anytime. It is not quite as grand and over-the-top as the TC through my HMS/TT2/TToby setup but it's surprisingly close for such a compact and transportable setup. The WA11 is Class A with balanced input/output topology, after all, and I can already sense a certain character that this setup delivers that I don't hear in my full-blown TC setup. It is more intimate with a little more warmth and smoothness although it doesn't have the same huge epic soundstage and hyper detail retrieval that my TC setup does. And I'm totally fine with this. It really shouldn't sound like that or my investment in the full-blown home rig is wasted. Haha.

I don't have a way to hook up the Diana Phi to my home setup right now but I can certainly imagine. I already ordered the TC-to-Diana adapter set from Affinity Adapters to hook up to my setup. Then I will really be able to hear how the Diana Phi compares to the TC. This being said, I want the Diana Phi with WA11 setup for mobile usage and being able to enjoy the Abyss House Sound wherever I go. It really sounds great - just beautiful. I can enjoy it in its own right - not "TC Jr" or anything like that. Now I can _really_ look forward to the "new normal" that will happen eventually.


----------



## Orlok

And... one more thing.  For my ongoing front-end optimization of my setup. It shall be another very fun weekend.


----------



## MatW

Orlok said:


> So, I had been raving about the TC to my boss/owner/partner and good friend based in Sweden and he said he fancies getting a nice headphone as well but something more compact and portable. I advised him that the Diana Phi along with the WA11 will be perfect and he agreed. Well, this rig arrived today and I've had about a few hours with it so far and, as I expected, I'm going to want the exact same setup.
> 
> Pre-pandemic, I was traveling to Asia 3~4 times per year for 2~3 weeks at a time visiting suppliers and also all around the US every other month visiting dealers/customers. Eventually, I'll be doing this again when things return to normal and I _know_ that I'm going to want to take the "Abyss House Sound" with me wherever I go. Heck, I can even take this little system on my daily 7-mile hikes around the local mountains. The Audeze LCDi4 is great for nature walks but it doesn't quite compare to this.
> 
> ...


I have gone the IEM route for that... Had a great journey and I think I've found my ideal collection of IEMs.


----------



## Orlok

MatW said:


> I have gone the IEM route for that... Had a great journey and I think I've found my ideal collection of IEMs.


I have the LCDi4 that I've had for a few years and the JH Audio Layla CIEM for almost 5 years now and they are definitely keepers. The LCDi4 I am especially fond of. It really doesn't sound at all like the LCD-3 and LCD-4 I've owned. To me, it's like a cross between the HD800S and LCD-3 although it doesn't quite match the resolution of the LCD-4. I liked the LCDi4 so much that I got another one for my wife, which she cherishes.

This being said, the Diana Phi with the WA11 is at a different level altogether. It has the TC sound but in a different flavor. And it's compact enough to take on the road and even on nature hikes. I'm obviously very interested in the future Abyss IEM as well.


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Been an Abyss owner for about a month and a half now, was happy with the overall presentation, but kind of find the mids to be a little dry(even with an el 34 tube setup). What would you guys suggest how to improve the mids? Also a susvara owner and I kind of miss the sweetness with the abyss. Would like to ask also for wa 33 owners, how do you find the sound with the abyss, does it gave it more emotion? 



Another gripe also, as a female user not sure if its just me, but some stray hair always get inside the cups and create scratching noise. are the driver's safe inside hahah?


----------



## Trance_Gott

The mids on TC are meh. You can not do anything. No amp will brings the mids to front no sc. That's why I sold my TC and now have a Susvara which is also better in many other aspects especially bass quality and mids to die for. 
Sure I have a Niimbus US4 so you need a really ready good amp to let Susvara shine.


----------



## Trance_Gott

I see you also have a Utopia which has great mids a lot better then the TC in this aspect.


----------



## simorag (May 8, 2021)

3ggerhappy said:


> Been an Abyss owner for about a month and a half now, was happy with the overall presentation, but kind of find the mids to be a little dry(even with an el 34 tube setup). What would you guys suggest how to improve the mids? Also a susvara owner and I kind of miss the sweetness with the abyss. Would like to ask also for wa 33 owners, how do you find the sound with the abyss, does it gave it more emotion?
> 
> Another gripe also, as a female user not sure if its just me, but some stray hair always get inside the cups and create scratching noise. are the driver's safe inside hahah?



Beautiful setup @3ggerhappy !

I had your first gripe as well (sadly my increasing baldness prevents your second one  ), and the cure was: a) get the Superconductor cable and b) find a beatiful and rare NOS Mullard tube from their golden age.

Will not give you Susvara-like mids, but a decise increase of body and density of tone in the midrange, along with some nice forwardness of vocals which will bring more emotional attachment to (especially female) sang content.


----------



## FLTWS

3ggerhappy said:


> Been an Abyss owner for about a month and a half now, was happy with the overall presentation, but kind of find the mids to be a little dry(even with an el 34 tube setup). What would you guys suggest how to improve the mids? Also a susvara owner and I kind of miss the sweetness with the abyss. Would like to ask also for wa 33 owners, how do you find the sound with the abyss, does it gave it more emotion?
> 
> 
> 
> Another gripe also, as a female user not sure if its just me, but some stray hair always get inside the cups and create scratching noise. are the driver's safe inside hahah?


I got a full head of hair but keep it short for comfort and ease. I've had 2 occasions of a hair stuck between the metal grate and diaphragm, mades a buzzing type noise in my case. A pair of tweezers fixed the problem. Just grab the visible end of the hair and out it comes. If I heard that noise and a hair was not noticeable because it was completely concealed under the grate not sure how I'd handle that.


----------



## SonicFade

Orlok said:


> First and foremost, it was about the sound quality and the WA11 simply seemed like the best synergistic match for the Diana Phi, both in power and in tonality. I read as many reviews about the WA11 as I can and it also says says something that Abyss offers it on their own website as the ideal match for the Diana Phi and V2. Second, I'm an Apple guy and want to use the iPhone with Qobuz and Onkyo apps without having to set up a whole new DAP system. For walking and hiking, I'll play certain set playlists on shuffle and that's what I'll listen to. It would be very rare that I'll have to pull out the phone to skip a track. Of course, what I do won't apply to everyone.
> 
> My initial impression of the Diana Phi and WA11 combo is that it is indeed very synergistic. This is a little setup that I can be very happy with anywhere and at anytime. It is not quite as grand and over-the-top as the TC through my HMS/TT2/TToby setup but it's surprisingly close for such a compact and transportable setup. The WA11 is Class A with balanced input/output topology, after all, and I can already sense a certain character that this setup delivers that I don't hear in my full-blown TC setup. It is more intimate with a little more warmth and smoothness although it doesn't have the same huge epic soundstage and hyper detail retrieval that my TC setup does. And I'm totally fine with this. It really shouldn't sound like that or my investment in the full-blown home rig is wasted. Haha.
> 
> I don't have a way to hook up the Diana Phi to my home setup right now but I can certainly imagine. I already ordered the TC-to-Diana adapter set from Affinity Adapters to hook up to my setup. Then I will really be able to hear how the Diana Phi compares to the TC. This being said, I want the Diana Phi with WA11 setup for mobile usage and being able to enjoy the Abyss House Sound wherever I go. It really sounds great - just beautiful. I can enjoy it in its own right - not "TC Jr" or anything like that. Now I can _really_ look forward to the "new normal" that will happen eventually.



looking forward to see how the TC fits into the picture.
How much more “punch, slam, visceral mojo” does the TC have over the phi? Particularly in bass content. Assuming the TC has wayyyyy more bass going on


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Trance_Gott said:


> The mids on TC are meh. You can not do anything. No amp will brings the mids to front no sc. That's why I sold my TC and now have a Susvara which is also better in many other aspects especially bass quality and mids to die for.
> Sure I have a Niimbus US4 so you need a really ready good amp to let Susvara shine.


Well I guess you could never have it all the TC would be perfect i guess, if it has the mids of the susvara. I really like the Susvara though with my current setup, really got this nice sweet mids with the Primaluna using el34.


Trance_Gott said:


> I see you also have a Utopia which has great mids a lot better then the TC in this aspect.


True that, Utopia on the other hand lacks the soundstage. TC still for the slam and details though.


simorag said:


> Beautiful setup @3ggerhappy !
> 
> I had your first gripe as well (sadly my increasing baldness prevents your second one  ), and the cure was: a) get the Superconductor cable and b) find a beatiful and rare NOS Mullard tube from their golden age.
> 
> Will not give you Susvara-like mids, but a decise increase of body and density of tone in the midrange, along with some nice forwardness of vocals which will bring more emotional attachment to (especially female) sang content.


Thanks!, I'll see what I can do with the options . a) would be much easier to do but a pricey proposition. b) also pricey and would be much harder to do haha.


----------



## JLoud

I did find the SC cable improved the mids. The mids being the one area I thought could be improved. Also the TC sounds fantastic on the WA33. I find tubes also helped the mids on the TC. Of course tubes vary so finding your cup of tea may take time.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Hi everyone. Back to this thread. 

I am a Susvara owner. Considering adding a TC to the stable.


----------



## paradoxper

Sajid Amit said:


> Hi everyone. Back to this thread.
> 
> I am a Susvara owner. Considering adding a TC to the stable.


Sussssss boy welcome to manhood.


----------



## Sajid Amit (May 8, 2021)

Such humor is dangerous, @paradoxper. 

Also, you have to consider that the Sus is probably an older/experienced gentleman.

The TC is the ruffian / subversive frat boy, lol.


----------



## OceanRanger

Orlok said:


> And... one more thing.  For my ongoing front-end optimization of my setup. It shall be another very fun weekend.


I’m super interested to hear your thoughts on this…


----------



## E-norm

Trance_Gott said:


> The mids on TC are meh. You can not do anything.


That's the most direct and refreshing feedback I've seen in a long time in this thread 🙂 I've had my TCs for a couple of months and have been agonizing about this exact same sentiment. In fact I find the music lacking emotion to such a degree that I barely want to listen to them. I much prefer my Stellia and Empyrean for instance.

But then, as someone who would rather listen to hammer drills and babies crying than metal music maybe the Abyss are just wrong for me. Seems to be quite the metal crowd on here and they seem reeealllly happy so.. maybe the 1266s aren't necessarily the all-rounders I thought they were.


----------



## Sajid Amit (May 8, 2021)

E-norm said:


> That's the most direct and refreshing feedback I've seen in a long time in this thread 🙂 I've had my TCs for a couple of months and have been agonizing about this exact same sentiment. In fact I find the music lacking emotion to such a degree that I barely want to listen to them. I much prefer my Stellia and Empyrean for instance.
> 
> But then, as someone who would rather listen to hammer drills and babies crying than metal music maybe the Abyss are just wrong for me. Seems to be quite the metal crowd on here and they seem reeealllly happy so.. maybe the 1266s aren't necessarily the all-rounders I thought they were.



I was quite disappointed with the TC initially. I didn't like the mids at all. 

Some of the folks here are also on the Susvara thread, where I left impressions on the TC. They will know well my reactions to the TC, lol. Generated quite a debate on that thread because folks were surprised I didn't like the TC. 

I brought in the TC for audition number 3. I am personally liking them the third time around.






But yes, the TC's play particularly well with metal, electronic, and other bass-oriented genres/tracks.


----------



## paradoxper

Sajid Amit said:


> Such humor is dangerous, @paradoxper.
> 
> Also, you have to consider the fact that the Sus is probably an older/experienced gentleman.
> 
> The TC is the ruffian frat boy, lol.


Be it an young boy or older gentleman, I hope they enjoy whatever are their sexual proclivities.


----------



## mammal

So many people here on Head-Fi who have HTT2 and AB-1266 also have HMS, so got myself a loaner for a week to see what is all the fuss about


----------



## DJJEZ

3ggerhappy said:


> Been an Abyss owner for about a month and a half now, was happy with the overall presentation, but kind of find the mids to be a little dry(even with an el 34 tube setup). What would you guys suggest how to improve the mids? Also a susvara owner and I kind of miss the sweetness with the abyss. Would like to ask also for wa 33 owners, how do you find the sound with the abyss, does it gave it more emotion?
> 
> 
> 
> Another gripe also, as a female user not sure if its just me, but some stray hair always get inside the cups and create scratching noise. are the driver's safe inside hahah?


Love the DCS bartok. Wish I could afford one lol


----------



## DJJEZ

mammal said:


> So many people here on Head-Fi who have HTT2 and AB-1266 also have HMS, so got myself a loaner for a week to see what is all the fuss about


Did you decide if you prefer SE or XLR for TT2?


----------



## mammal

DJJEZ said:


> Did you decide if you prefer SE or XLR for TT2?


Not yet confident to answer this to be honest, as I have not clocked enough hours on SE yet. This being said, the difference is not going to be night and day (for my ears, not trying to discount other people's experiences), as the initial testing I have done was very close, with a bit of "hmm, I think it lacks a bit of dynamics, but not by much". Others have said it before, but volume matching is very important, without it XLR wins every time (since it is louder on the same setting). But not going to lie, I am having issues fighting the bias towards "do I have enough headroom" and it is upsetting to me that I do not have a second pair of brain / ear circuit in my head with which I could do a null test, haha. Would I recommend others to get the adapter? Yes and no, for those who like experimenting yes, for those who read between the lines "he needs to write a novel to justify that he hears something, but even then is not sure" no. But, if you already have an adapter, then I guess there is no harm in using XLR. What is good though is that I no longer wish for other amplifiers, with an argument "HTT2 does not have enough power". If I ever try a different amp, it will be in effort to find a different sound signature, that could potentially please my ears more, but it's not going to be for power output (or lack thereof).


----------



## makan

3ggerhappy said:


> Been an Abyss owner for about a month and a half now, was happy with the overall presentation, but kind of find the mids to be a little dry(even with an el 34 tube setup). What would you guys suggest how to improve the mids? Also a susvara owner and I kind of miss the sweetness with the abyss. Would like to ask also for wa 33 owners, how do you find the sound with the abyss, does it gave it more emotion?


I find the superconductor improves the mids...I had it, sold it and then bought it back.  I have the WA33...I am not sure how much it improves the mids, but the SC cable definitely does.


----------



## qboogie

Another heads up, I have a new 6 ft SC cable in the classifieds for a good price. Feel free to PM with offers. No harm in that


----------



## qboogie

The gorgeous looking McIntosh MHA200 tube amp is out in the wild, with positive impressions so far. I am on the 2-3 month waiting list for one. There aren't too many in depth impressions regarding how it drives the Abyss 1266. I hope it's favorable. I'll be comparing it to the Formula S / powerman which I'm getting in next week or so.


----------



## Orlok

simorag said:


> Beautiful setup @3ggerhappy !
> 
> I had your first gripe as well (sadly my increasing baldness prevents your second one  ), and the cure was: a) get the Superconductor cable and b) find a beatiful and rare NOS Mullard tube from their golden age.
> 
> Will not give you Susvara-like mids, but a decise increase of body and density of tone in the midrange, along with some nice forwardness of vocals which will bring more emotional attachment to (especially female) sang content.


Yes, same here. Initially, I felt that it had the "scooped mids" type of sonic signature - especially with the Moon Audio Silver Dragon (which I sold). The stock cable was better but this inherent character was still there. It's a fun sound for energetic genres like metal, rock, EDM and instrumental fusion but I found it lacking for vocals - especially female vocals.

The SC cables definitely made a major difference for me - both the interconnects and the HP cable. Now there is a good deal more body in the mids and the highs have been significantly smoothened out. The lows also have more detail and texture. After getting the SC cables, I knew that further optimization of the front-end will help even more and the batteries for the HMS/TT2 took it one step further. Now, the SC V USB cable adds another layer of refinement that I'm enjoying.

No, the mids still do not sound quite as full as they are on the Susvara or the LCD-4 but I now find the vocals very pleasing all around. I've been on a Tori Amos trip recently and I'm hearing the improvements in the texture of her voice with every change I've made to my setup. Other female vocalists I've been listening to test are Kate Bush, Bjork, Imogen Heap, Diana Ross, Barbra Streisand, Grimes, Alison Krauss, Youn Sun Nah, Donna Summer, Sarah McLachlan, Diana Krall, Kimbra, Norah Jones, and various great opera sopranos like Joan Sutherland, Mirella Freni and Maria Callas. The improvements I've heard with the SC and other tweaks have made me really dig into my library to enjoy the female voice. So much more to start exploring again...


----------



## Orlok

SonicFade said:


> looking forward to see how the TC fits into the picture.
> How much more “punch, slam, visceral mojo” does the TC have over the phi? Particularly in bass content. Assuming the TC has wayyyyy more bass going on


I would have to do an A/B with the setup being equal and I won't be able to do that until I get the TC-to-Diana cable adapter. I plan to try the TC through the WA11 but I'd have to use the SE 6.35mm jack, not the balanced 4mm jack I'm using with the Phi. The WA11 seems to have enough power to drive the TC comfortably but I'll have to try it out to know for sure. 

The Diana Phi is a very impressive sounding HP - especially for its compact size - but it just doesn't have the expansive soundstage and the visceral impact of the TC. I think that would be an unrealistic expectation. The Phi will also need a good amount of break-in time while my TC must now have over 300 hours. Eventually, I'll post my impressions comparing the two after the Phi gets plenty of play time. The Phi/WA11 I have now will get shipped out to Sweden on Monday so I'll be ordering the same setup soon. It'll be a little while before I get to doing a thorough A/B.


----------



## mammal

Orlok said:


> he WA11 seems to have enough power to drive the TC comfortably but I'll have to try it out to know for sure.


Are you sure? Woo audio lists "1.2W @ 30 Ohms, 350mW @ 100 Ohms", which does not seem like plenty for AB-1266. I know specs aren't everything, but still.


----------



## Orlok

OceanRanger said:


> I’m super interested to hear your thoughts on this…


I had been a skeptic about cables and especially in regards to the pre-DAC front-end chain. Well, I'm definitely not a skeptic anymore. 

Again, this USB cable makes a significant difference. Everything sounds clearer than ever before but it also imparts a certain "analog" character to the overall sound. There is greater separation between the various instruments and I'm hearing new details that I hadn't heard before. The soundstage is improved yet again in terms of depth - some instruments sound further away or closer than before. The imaging is more "3D" and the overall tonal balance is noticeably improved as well.

I really didn't think a USB cable would make this much of a difference but, yes, it does.


----------



## Orlok

mammal said:


> Are you sure? Woo audio lists "1.2W @ 30 Ohms, 350mW @ 100 Ohms", which does not seem like plenty for AB-1266. I know specs aren't everything, but still.


I'm just basing it on what I'm hearing with the Diana Phi, which is also a fairly power hungry HP. I'll try the TC with the WA11 very soon.


----------



## Orlok

E-norm said:


> That's the most direct and refreshing feedback I've seen in a long time in this thread 🙂 I've had my TCs for a couple of months and have been agonizing about this exact same sentiment. In fact I find the music lacking emotion to such a degree that I barely want to listen to them. I much prefer my Stellia and Empyrean for instance.
> 
> But then, as someone who would rather listen to hammer drills and babies crying than metal music maybe the Abyss are just wrong for me. Seems to be quite the metal crowd on here and they seem reeealllly happy so.. maybe the 1266s aren't necessarily the all-rounders I thought they were.


I listen to every genre under the sun ranging from country to opera, pop to bebop jazz, blues to world, ambient electronic to metal, and I find the TC to be the most versatile headphone I have heard or tried. This being said, each HP still has its own tonality that will suit someone great and not so well for others. There's that old adage: "One man's honey is another's poison."


----------



## jlbrach

E-norm said:


> That's the most direct and refreshing feedback I've seen in a long time in this thread 🙂 I've had my TCs for a couple of months and have been agonizing about this exact same sentiment. In fact I find the music lacking emotion to such a degree that I barely want to listen to them. I much prefer my Stellia and Empyrean for instance.
> 
> But then, as someone who would rather listen to hammer drills and babies crying than metal music maybe the Abyss are just wrong for me. Seems to be quite the metal crowd on here and they seem reeealllly happy so.. maybe the 1266s aren't necessarily the all-rounders I thought they were.


as one who owns the stellia and abyss TC I can not imagine comparing the 2 because to my ears the TC is head and shoulders better,no comparison...


----------



## Orlok

Sajid Amit said:


> I was quite disappointed with the TC initially. I didn't like the mids at all.
> 
> Some of the folks here are also on the Susvara thread, where I left impressions on the TC. They will know well my reactions to the TC, lol. Generated quite a debate on that thread because folks were surprised I didn't like the TC.
> 
> ...


I approached the TC with energetic music in mind so I think my expectations were tempered. Before I finally decided to get the TC, I paid as much attention to the bad reviews or opinions of people who did not like it at all. But I've been through this kind of thing with guitars and related gear for decades so I knew that everyone has vastly different tastes and how they hear things. One can only think about how a particular piece of gear will suit oneself, not what others say about it one way or another.

And everyone's tastes also evolve as time goes by so minds can change. At the same time, you just know sometimes when something is "just right" (or not) for you instinctively. I think the TC has a certain character that one really bonds with or doesn't at all and I've been reading or hearing this for a long time before I got it. It does seem to need a lot of care in what cables and other components you use with it for you to fully realize and understand its potential. I'm still in the experimental phase as I've only had the TC for two months now so I'm only starting to discover what it's capable of. And I'm enjoying the process immensely. Hope you do the same!


----------



## Orlok (May 8, 2021)

mammal said:


> Are you sure? Woo audio lists "1.2W @ 30 Ohms, 350mW @ 100 Ohms", which does not seem like plenty for AB-1266. I know specs aren't everything, but still.


I'm listening to the TC with the WA11 and no problem at all. I do need to set the level switch at Hi to get the low-end punch and slam but the volume knob is at less than 9 o'clock. Turning it any louder would get uncomfortable for me. The WA11 has more than enough juice for the TC. As discussed many times here, the TC isn't really _that_ hard to drive but it seems to be quite sensitive to different amounts of power reserves driving it. The WA11 sounds great - way different from my setup but really nice with a certain tonal flavor. It's a warmer and more "tube-ish" sound.


----------



## mammal

Orlok said:


> I'm listening to the TC with the WA11 and no problem at all.


Thank you very much for checking it, much appreciated!


----------



## Orlok

mammal said:


> Thank you very much for checking it, much appreciated!


Sure, my pleasure. The WA11 also has no problem driving both at the same time but, of course, there's a volume mismatch with the Phi being a little too loud and the TC being too soft. With the Phi, it's better to use the Lo level as that would provide more fine-tune adjustability of the volume level. At Hi setting, it's too much for the Phi and the volume knob almost acts like an on/off switch. In any case, I'm very impressed by the WA11. I wish the battery time was longer and that it was a little thinner and lighter but I guess that couldn't be helped to achieve the performance it delivers.


----------



## mammal

Orlok said:


> I'm very impressed by the WA11


I remember reading on Diana forums that people were more than happy with WA11's amp section, but found the DAC portion underwhelming. What's your take on it?


----------



## Orlok (May 8, 2021)

mammal said:


> I remember reading on Diana forums that people were more than happy with WA11's amp section, but found the DAC portion underwhelming. What's your take on it?


It certainly doesn't have pristine resolution of the TT2 or even my original Hugo but I certainly wasn't expecting that kind of DAC performance from the WA11. At this point in time, it's kind of hard to separate the DAC and amp portions and distinguish what each is doing. I've only had several hours with both as a whole and I really like what it delivers in such a compact package. It's such a different sound from my full-blown desktop setup but, then, that's well over 10x the cost of the WA11 so it's not a fair comparison. I'm looking at it as what it is: a different class of DAC/amp for specific usage and price point.


----------



## ra990

mammal said:


> Not yet confident to answer this to be honest, as I have not clocked enough hours on SE yet. This being said, the difference is not going to be night and day (for my ears, not trying to discount other people's experiences), as the initial testing I have done was very close, with a bit of "hmm, I think it lacks a bit of dynamics, but not by much". Others have said it before, but volume matching is very important, without it XLR wins every time (since it is louder on the same setting). But not going to lie, I am having issues fighting the bias towards "do I have enough headroom" and it is upsetting to me that I do not have a second pair of brain / ear circuit in my head with which I could do a null test, haha. Would I recommend others to get the adapter? Yes and no, for those who like experimenting yes, for those who read between the lines "he needs to write a novel to justify that he hears something, but even then is not sure" no. But, if you already have an adapter, then I guess there is no harm in using XLR. What is good though is that I no longer wish for other amplifiers, with an argument "HTT2 does not have enough power". If I ever try a different amp, it will be in effort to find a different sound signature, that could potentially please my ears more, but it's not going to be for power output (or lack thereof).


I think you already have one, but if not, there's a $35 adapter on Amazon that works fine. Just get it and be done with it. All that power is too tempting not to tap into, regardless of A/B listening.


----------



## tkam

New 300B amp that I ordered specifically for use with the Abyss arrived earlier today.


----------



## jlbrach

Orlok said:


> I'm listening to the TC with the WA11 and no problem at all. I do need to set the level switch at Hi to get the low-end punch and slam but the volume knob is at less than 9 o'clock. Turning it any louder would get uncomfortable for me. The WA11 has more than enough juice for the TC. As discussed many times here, the TC isn't really _that_ hard to drive but it seems to be quite sensitive to different amounts of power reserves driving it. The WA11 sounds great - way different from my setup but really nice with a certain tonal flavor. It's a warmer and more "tube-ish" sound.


the wa11 does not even remotely do justice to the abyss tc....


----------



## ra990

jlbrach said:


> the wa11 does not even remotely do justice to the abyss tc....




@jlbrach doesn't mess around with "imo..."


----------



## Orlok

jlbrach said:


> the wa11 does not even remotely do justice to the abyss tc....


No, it's not ideal and certainly does not compare to my setup (or anyone else's $15K+ setup) but I can still enjoy the TC with it if nothing else was around. I was mainly commenting that it has the power to drive the TC easily and that it sounds great for its price point.


----------



## Orlok

ra990 said:


> @jlbrach doesn't mess around with "imo..."


This forum wouldn't be as fun and interesting without @jlbrach and @paradoxper.


----------



## jlbrach

ra990 said:


> @jlbrach doesn't mess around with "imo..."


I usually will say IMO and that is implied but in the case of the wa11 and the abyss TC I do not think I even need to say IMO ...dont get me wrong the wa11 is a perfectly good portable travel amp but in the case of the TC it simply aint meant for it


----------



## Orlok (May 9, 2021)

MatW said:


> I have gone the IEM route for that... Had a great journey and I think I've found my ideal collection of IEMs.


So I took the Phi/WA11 setup out on my daily 2-hour hike today and I concur that it's not ideal for such an outing. This hike isn't a stroll in the park. It's quite strenuous with many steep hills to climb and I put in the equivalent of 150 flights climbed so the heat and the sweat didn't go well with an over-ears HP no matter how compact and light.

Also, although I have a belt pack that can easily accommodate the WA11 and iPhone, it's cumbersome for the occasional jogs and sprints through the woods. I'll stick with the LCDi4 for this. Well, you never know until you try.  This being said, the Phi will be great for campfire listening while looking at the stars-filled skies as well as for business travel.


----------



## mammal

ra990 said:


> I think you already have one, but if not, there's a $35 adapter on Amazon that works fine. Just get it and be done with it. All that power is too tempting not to tap into, regardless of A/B listening.


I have a nice one made by Lavricables, the reason why I am discussing XLR vs SE on this thread is to share my personal subjective opinion for others, who are undecided, you know, another data point. Also, I plan to get a custom made cable for my AB-1266 and knowing what termination I want, will help me get the cable I will benefit from the most (I hate adapters you know)


----------



## ra990

mammal said:


> I have a nice one made by Lavricables, the reason why I am discussing XLR vs SE on this thread is to share my personal subjective opinion for others, who are undecided, you know, another data point. Also, I plan to get a custom made cable for my AB-1266 and knowing what termination I want, will help me get the cable I will benefit from the most (I hate adapters you know)


I bought a used set of Abyss cables to do exactly that so I don't have an adapter between the TT2 and the Abyss. Great minds think alike


----------



## Solan

Any experiences running the 1266 from the headphone outs of a Creek 5350SE? The headphone outs there are connected directly to the effect stage, not the pre-amp stage or some separate dinky headphone amp.


----------



## Sajid Amit (May 9, 2021)

Question for you metal heads...


----------



## Sajid Amit

Friends, have any of you A/B-ed the LCD4 and the 1266 Phi TC for metal / rock?

I have heard both but wondering if any of you own both or have otherwise gotten a chance to A/B?


----------



## paradoxper

Orlok said:


> This forum wouldn't be as fun and interesting without @jlbrach and @paradoxper.


I serve the people.


----------



## Articnoise

Sajid Amit said:


> I was quite disappointed with the TC initially. I didn't like the mids at all.
> 
> Some of the folks here are also on the Susvara thread, where I left impressions on the TC. They will know well my reactions to the TC, lol. Generated quite a debate on that thread because folks were surprised I didn't like the TC.
> 
> ...


To be honest, I have a hard time understanding how you can go from thinking that they sound completely unnatural to really good, when you listen with the exact same audio system. 🤔


----------



## qboogie

Articnoise said:


> To be honest, I have a hard time understanding how you can go from thinking that they sound completely unnatural to really good, when you listen with the exact same audio system. 🤔


Maybe he figured out the best fit for himself. Or psychoacoustics. I know cannabis makes music sound better too!


----------



## paradoxper

Everyone knows, per the Sus thread, these vegan boys are B-12 deficient which is known to cause auditory effects.


----------



## Sajid Amit (May 9, 2021)

Articnoise said:


> To be honest, I have a hard time understanding how you can go from thinking that they sound completely unnatural to really good, when you listen with the exact same audio system. 🤔


Well, its a good question.

Let me try to think through what may have contributed to this change of heart.

First, the May DAC may have made a difference.

It was loaned out at that time when I tried the TC, earlier. I think the May adds a whole lotta body to notes, and the TC scales on it nicely.

Second, I was A/B-ing with the Sus at that time with tracks that had lots of strings, vocals, etc. 

This time around I was A/B-ing with the R10P, and a lot of electronica had surreptitiously entered my test track list, as I have been listening to the R10P for a while now.

Lastly, because I have been playing exclusively the R10P for a while, before bringing home the TC, it is likely that my sense of what is “reference” is temporarily displaced, lol.

But if you ask me what may have made the most salient difference, I may have to give to the May (DAC).

Its still not my favorite headphone but I get the charm and the fanboyism/-girlism it receives.


----------



## number1sixerfan

I'm not too surprised at the change of heart  ..like I mentioned in the susvara thread at the time, having extended time with a variety of TOTL headphones can make quite the difference compared to A/B listening too two headphones within a very short period of time, especially if one of the headphones is a favorite or has been owned for quite some time. A/B'ing itself in the traditional sense has a lot of problems alone..

I think time and the R10P made a huge difference (no denying the DAC change, but generally the headphone's signature remains the same for the most part). In either case, glad you got a second pass at them @Sajid Amit.


----------



## Orlok

Sajid Amit said:


> Well, its a good question.
> 
> Let me try to think through what may have contributed to this change of heart.
> 
> ...


I'm sure that the May DAC had a big impact. I think the super high resolving nature of the TC can be perceived as too analytical, cold and devoid of emotion if not matched properly on the front-end. You see the Abyss team talking about what gear they like with their HPs and it's decidedly in the warm and lush tube and tube/analog-like components. Their cables are like that too - very clear but somehow adds more warmth and brings the mids more forward.

I've made a lot of improvements with the JPS cables and using batteries to power the Chord HMS and TT2. Doing this really smoothened out the highs and added body to the mids without affecting the clarity, transparency and imaging. Initially, I also thought the TC was only great for high energy music and not so great for vocals (especially female vocals) or other nuanced music like classical and acoustic jazz. I'll listen to metal and EDM sometimes but, most of the time, I listen to sonically mellower stuff with lots of dynamic range.

For me, the JPS SC cables made the most noticeable improvement but I know that more can be done later. I just can't do it right now because my budget is maxed out! Haha. I want to get a tube amp for the reasons mentioned earlier and a good music server/streamer and a USB reclocker are on my radar as well. And when this is all done, then it'll probably be time to upgrade the DAC. It never ends... This being said, I'm very happy with where things are now with my setup. It takes a while to understand the characteristics of a particular TOTL headphone and then tweak the system around it to realize its full potential in terms of what the designer/manufacturer envisioned it to be.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Anyone padrolling over here? I really enjoy the ZMF suede pads. Makes it sound more headphony, fit is tighter tho


----------



## jlbrach

Sajid Amit said:


> Well, its a good question.
> 
> Let me try to think through what may have contributed to this change of heart.
> 
> ...


I am not surprised at all...initial impressions are often erroneous and over time listening to different sources and different music one can start to hear detail and other positives that werent apparent upon first glance...in my case I thought the abyss TC head and shoulders better than the susvara...in fact I sold my first susvara and ultimately rebought it and now to be honest if given a choice between the 2 I could not choose, I have come to really appreciate the susvara and I believe a lot has to do with the addition of the bakoon 13r which really opened it up for me...


----------



## Stereolab42

qboogie said:


> The gorgeous looking McIntosh MHA200 tube amp is out in the wild, with positive impressions so far. I am on the 2-3 month waiting list for one. There aren't too many in depth impressions regarding how it drives the Abyss 1266. I hope it's favorable. I'll be comparing it to the Formula S / powerman which I'm getting in next week or so.


500mw is not going to cut it for the Abyss, not even close.


----------



## Mh996

I can’t properly commend how much the jump to TToby has improved my experience with the TCs, compared to the TT2 alone. This may be a feature of speaker amps broadly, or the TToby-TT2 pairing specifically. The dynamics, staging, and bass have all taken drastic jumps, and now more than ever I feel totally immersed in a headphone listening experience. Briefly switching back to my HD600 gave me perspective of how much was missing from my former go-to. I don’t see the need to change amplification anytime soon, unless Orlok can sell me on the WA33, whenever that time comes .


----------



## Stereolab42 (May 9, 2021)

Sajid Amit said:


> Friends, have any of you A/B-ed the LCD4 and the 1266 Phi TC for metal / rock?
> 
> I have heard both but wondering if any of you own both or have otherwise gotten a chance to A/B?


They are both bloody outstanding. TC is going to present the music in a wider and more expansive manner, great for symphonic rock/metal. LCD-4 is closer and more vocal-focused. Honestly there is no need to constantly switch between the two based on which one you think will be better for a given album. They are both so well-rounded it's never a crime to listen to, say, Dead Can Dance with the TC or Dimmu Borgir with the LCD-4. Just wing it, except for those occasional times when you want the PERFECT experience.


----------



## Orlok (May 9, 2021)

Mh996 said:


> I can’t properly commend how much the jump to TToby has improved my experience with the TCs, compared to the TT2 alone. This may be a feature of speaker amps broadly, or the TToby-TT2 pairing specifically. The dynamics, staging, and bass have all taken drastic jumps, and now more than ever I feel totally immersed in a headphone listening experience. Briefly switching back to my HD600 gave me perspective of how much was missing from my former go-to. I don’t see the need to change amplification anytime soon, unless Orlok can sell me on the WA33, whenever that time comes .


Glad you are really digging the TToby to drive the TC. I do wonder if it is this specific TT2-TToby pairing. I went back-and-forth a few times myself and this combo has the magic as far as I'm concerned. I even kept the volume low (75 dB) on the TToby and cranked up the volume to around 85~90dB on the the TT2's SE and XLR outs and I still preferred the TToby's overall sound. The TC just reacts differently with the TToby. Not sure why but I really don't care; it just sounds so good. It's a warmer, fuller, deeper and bigger sound while retaining the transparency and clarity.

I really don't see the need at all to change or upgrade my amp setup either. If and when I do add the WA33 to get the full-on tube sound and vibe, it wiIl be an add-on and I fully expect to keep the TToby. In fact, another option will be to use the TT2 strictly as DAC to WA33 and also use the WA33 in front of the TToby as a preamp as well as a headphone amp. Then I can switch between the two easily depending on my mood or some specific genre or recording. But that's ways off. I've made enough big ticket purchases for this year. Haha.


----------



## Roasty

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Anyone padrolling over here? I really enjoy the ZMF suede pads. Makes it sound more headphony, fit is tighter tho



How did u do that?!


----------



## Ciggavelli

Sajid Amit said:


> Friends, have any of you A/B-ed the LCD4 and the 1266 Phi TC for metal / rock?
> 
> I have heard both but wondering if any of you own both or have otherwise gotten a chance to A/B?


I just got my pair of LCD-4 this afternoon. I need more time and comparison between the two, but the LCD-4 sounds good with metal. It’s very warm (or at least for me).  The imaging seems hazy, which is good or bad depending on your genre. With metal, hazy works. The TC bass is better, but the LCD-4 also has good bass. I could see myself listening to hip-hop with these headphones and not be disappointed.

I’ll continue to break the LCD-4 in and make comparisons with all my headphones.


----------



## Litlgi74

mammal said:


> I will be the first one to admit - I just cried listening to *Eric Prydz - Opus* (don't judge me). The first time in my life I heard soundstage hight in an electronic song. I knew what width and to a lesser degree depth is, but never hight. I am in love with AB-1266.


Lots of fun to listen to!


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Orlok said:


> I just can't do it right now because my budget is maxed out!


Reading your previous posts, I actually had assumed it would be unlimited


----------



## Hoegaardener70

jlbrach said:


> the wa11 does not even remotely do justice to the abyss tc....


I guess you would say the same about my ifi Pro iCan. Still sounds great to me.


----------



## Orlok

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Reading your previous posts, I actually had assumed it would be unlimited


Haha. I wish! Fortunately, I can get these goodies as "business expense" items for the work I do but even that has its limits.


----------



## jlbrach

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I guess you would say the same about my ifi Pro iCan. Still sounds great to me.


no, I would not...the ifi pro can is far better..far more powerful and a much better match...I used to own it


----------



## Hoegaardener70

jlbrach said:


> no, I would not...the ifi pro can is far better..far more powerful and a much better match...I used to own it


Thanks, that is nice to hear ...


----------



## Orlok (May 10, 2021)

So, I'm finished with this experiment of completely taking the setup off the grid with the Jackery 1000w battery for the TToby and running my MBP off of a battery as well and I have to say that I really don't hear that much of a difference, if any. I will say the TToby does sound quieter. When I pause the music, it's dead silent and pitch black whereas I heard a _tiny_ bit of hiss when connected to the mains. So I guess that's worth something.

It certainly doesn't provide the sonic difference that the RAVPower batteries had with the HMS and TT2. That was significant, as were the JPS SC cables. This large battery is nice to have for the power amps but certainly not a necessity.

Running the MBP on external battery without the monitors hooked up didn't have a noticeable effect either compared to it being plugged into the mains. So I'm going to go back to "normal" although I'll use the speaker amps with the battery. The power draw of the TToby driving the TC is very small. This battery will probably last a week even if I had the music running 24/7. Anyway, my curiosity has been quenched and I'm going to just focus on enjoying the music now.


----------



## Orlok

jlbrach said:


> no, I would not...the ifi pro can is far better..far more powerful and a much better match...I used to own it


Do you have a recommendation for a battery-powered portable besides the WA11 to drive the Diana Phi that I can take on long business trips with me? I haven't committed to getting the WA11 for myself yet.


----------



## mammal

Orlok said:


> Do you have a recommendation for a battery-powered portable besides the WA11 to drive the Diana Phi that I can take on long business trips with me?


Hugo 2 with BX2-PLUS, but I see your point of one device dac/amp on travels. Another option is Centrance HIFI-M8 V2, heard it works on Dianas quite well, but haven't tested it myself. Of course iFi Diablo is another option.


----------



## Orlok

mammal said:


> Hugo 2 with BX2-PLUS, but I see your point of one device dac/amp on travels. Another option is Centrance HIFI-M8 V2, heard it works on Dianas quite well, but haven't tested it myself. Of course iFi Diablo is another option.


Yes, I'd want one portable integrated DAC/amp. The Hugo 2 with another device would be overkill for listening for several hours at night in the hotel rooms and the pool lounge. Also, it's bad enough as is going through airport security with MBP, iPad and the reMarkable tablet! Haha. The HIFI-M8 V2 looks interesting. You mentioned the iFi Diablo already and I did notice a lot of Abyss owners swear by it. I'm not interested in driving the TC with this. It's all about the Diana Phi.


----------



## mammal

Orlok said:


> The Hugo 2 with another device would be overkill for listening for several hours at night in the hotel rooms and the pool lounge.


I have seen pics of people travelling to hotels with HMS+HTT2+AB1266, that's some dedication  



Orlok said:


> The HIFI-M8 V2 looks interesting.


This was recommended to me back when I was searching for a dac/amp combo for my Diana V2. I did not have access to it, so went with Hugo 2 and Diablo instead.



Orlok said:


> You mentioned the iFi Diablo already and I did notice a lot of Abyss owners swear by it.


If I had to chose between Hugo 2 and Diablo, with the constraint that I cannot add an external amplifier, I would have gone with Diablo. Also for your use case, it seems like a good option. As always, best to compare WA11, Diablo and Centrance if you can.


----------



## Orlok

mammal said:


> I have seen pics of people travelling to hotels with HMS+HTT2+AB1266, that's some dedication


Well, I do plan to take my HMS/TT2/TToby with the TC on my upcoming RV vacation trip with the batteries but I really can't imagine doing that for short trips and lugging all that stuff around. For international travel, forget it. On my typical business trip to Asia, I'd be going through 5~7 different airports in various countries.


mammal said:


> If I had to chose between Hugo 2 and Diablo, with the constraint that I cannot add an external amplifier, I would have gone with Diablo. Also for your use case, it seems like a good option. As always, best to compare WA11, Diablo and Centrance if you can.


Well, comparing these options in person and doing a thorough A/B really won't be easy, like with so many other things.


----------



## Slim1970

I have the CEntrance Hifi-M8 V2 and it is a nice pairing with my Diana V2’s. I experimented with it over the weekend. One thing I discovered was the volume level is close to being maxed out on it to get the Diana V2’s to open up. The good thing about it is the Hifi-M8 V2 remains composed and sounds great. it around the same power output as the WA11 at 1.6 watts max and the Diana V2’s are using every bit of it.


----------



## mammal

Slim1970 said:


> I have the CEntrance Hifi-M8 V2 and it is a nice pairing with my Diana V2’s. I experimented with it over the weekend. One thing I discovered was the volume level is close to being maxed out on it to get the Diana V2’s to open up. The good thing about it is the Hifi-M8 V2 remains composed and sounds great. it around the same power output as the WA11 at 1.6 watts max and the Diana V2’s are using every bit of it.


So presumably CEntrance would not be strong enough for Diana Phi, which require more power? Or it would only limit the headroom, so some music genres would not be as much affected as others?


----------



## Slim1970

mammal said:


> So presumably CEntrance would not be strong enough for Diana Phi, which require more power? Or it would only limit the headroom, so some music genres would not be as much affected as others?


Since it takes nearly max volume to get the Diana V2’s to open up, the Hifi-M8 V2 has limited headroom. It isn’t limiting the dynamics of the Diana V2’s in any way from what I’m hearing with any music genre. They all sound good.


----------



## MatW (May 10, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> I just got my pair of LCD-4 this afternoon. I need more time and comparison between the two, but the LCD-4 sounds good with metal. It’s very warm (or at least for me).  The imaging seems hazy, which is good or bad depending on your genre. With metal, hazy works. The TC bass is better, but the LCD-4 also has good bass. I could see myself listening to hip-hop with these headphones and not be disappointed.
> 
> I’ll continue to break the LCD-4 in and make comparisons with all my headphones.


Use the LCD4 with EQ! Audeze presets in Roon work well imo.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Roasty said:


> How did u do that?!


I've built an adapter for different pads. It latches on to the driver assembly via magnets like the Abyss one. The one on the picture is 104mm which works nicely.


----------



## Litlgi74

DuncanDirkDick said:


> I've built an adapter for different pads. It latches on to the driver assembly via magnets like the Abyss one. The one on the picture is 104mm which works nicely.


Very Cool... can you share more details, pictures and how it was made?


----------



## MatW

Litlgi74 said:


> Very Cool... can you share more details, pictures and how it was made?





DuncanDirkDick said:


> I've built an adapter for different pads. It latches on to the driver assembly via magnets like the Abyss one. The one on the picture is 104mm which works nicely.


Better yet, can you take some orders?


----------



## Solan

Orlok said:


> So, I'm finished with this experiment of completely taking the setup off the grid with the Jackery 1000w battery for the TToby and running my MBP off of a battery as well and I have to say that I really don't hear that much of a difference, if any. I will say the TToby does sound quieter. When I pause the music, it's dead silent and pitch black whereas I heard a _tiny_ bit of hiss when connected to the mains. So I guess that's worth something.



Interesting! So if your amp has a DC in, and you have sufficiently strong batteries, then those batteries may be a better alternative than would an external power supply? Do I understand you right? Sounds like it would be far cheaper as well. Maybe worth considering for those upper-class amps.


----------



## Orlok

Solan said:


> Interesting! So if your amp has a DC in, and you have sufficiently strong batteries, then those batteries may be a better alternative than would an external power supply? Do I understand you right? Sounds like it would be far cheaper as well. Maybe worth considering for those upper-class amps.


Well, I've only compared the battery AC out to the amp with the Audioquest NRG-Z3 power cable plugged into the Furman PST-8D power conditioner and the battery is quieter. I don't know about the real high-end power line conditioners and cables like the AQ Niagara and Hurricane. 

I remain curious about such high-end power supply products and what effect they have on the sound compared to batteries. What else do they provide besides eliminating RFI/EMI noise? I'm sure there is more to it or people wouldn't be spending many thousands on them.

As for DC, I'm using the smaller RAVPower batteries for the HMS and TT2 and that made a big difference since it's a critical point where any line noise gets passed down through the chain.


----------



## cjarrett

DuncanDirkDick said:


> I've built an adapter for different pads. It latches on to the driver assembly via magnets like the Abyss one. The one on the picture is 104mm which works nicely.





MatW said:


> Better yet, can you take some orders?


yes yes yes please this is neat-o.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick (May 11, 2021)

@cjarrett @MatW @Litlgi74

It's a 3d printed frame that takes 6 magnets to attach to the driver assembly. I fitted them inside the frame, so they wont be visible once the two parts are assembled. Second part attaches to the pad, the outer diameter is variable so it takes pretty much any pad out there. This version was for me so I can quickly swap pads. In my case the pads stay perma-mounted to the adapter ring since I've built that system for most headphones I own, so I can easily switch them around. If I make these for others, I'd probably add some latches to the inner ring to add more friction for a more permanent solution. Just hit me up if you're interested. Or if you want to print them yourself I've attached the stl files for the non latched 104mm version.


----------



## cjarrett

DuncanDirkDick said:


> @cjarrett @MatW @Litlgi74
> 
> It's a 3d printed frame that takes 6 magnets to attach to the driver assembly. I fitted them inside the frame, so they wont be visible once the two parts are assembled. Second part attaches to the pad, the outer diameter is variable so it takes pretty much any pad out there. This version was for me so I can quickly swap pads. In my case the pads stay perma-mounted to the adapter ring since I've built that system for most headphones I own, so I can easily switch them around. If I make these for others, I'd probably add some latches to the inner ring to add more friction for a more permanent solution. Just hit me up if you're interested. Or if you want to print them yourself I've attached the stl files for the non latched 104mm version.


Really neat.  Might ask my SIL's brother (3D printed lots of gifts for the nephews these past few years) to make me some with his setup.  Give me an excuse to go over and share some beers now that we both got the jabs.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

It's for 10x3mm magnets btw. I don't know if they're available in the US. If not, just msg me with the closest size


----------



## Sajid Amit

Can anyone link a headphone stand that will work with the 1266 Phi TC?

This one appears to be sold out:

https://abyss-headphones.com/products/headphone-stand-for-abyss-ab-1266


----------



## MatW

https://www.headphoneauditions.nl/product/haa-abyss-stand/

Did you reach out to Stefan at Headphone Auditions? It says 'available on backorder', so there is probably some wait involved, but these are the best for the TC imo.


----------



## Litlgi74

Sajid Amit said:


> Can anyone link a headphone stand that will work with the 1266 Phi TC?
> 
> This one appears to be sold out:
> 
> https://abyss-headphones.com/products/headphone-stand-for-abyss-ab-1266


Lots of 1266 owners use two of these...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08M9J9S7...abc_9CF5WNGW5M4A0C0NFYA6?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## paradoxper

@Ciggavelli, did I miss your Sunday metal pick? Tsk.

A little less 'evil' but plenty of heavy with great tempo, timing, pop, and enough vocal range to satisfy.


----------



## jlbrach

Sajid Amit said:


> Can anyone link a headphone stand that will work with the 1266 Phi TC?
> 
> This one appears to be sold out:
> 
> https://abyss-headphones.com/products/headphone-stand-for-abyss-ab-1266


I suggest you wait for it to be back in stock, it is the best 1266 stand I have seen


----------



## Orlok

jlbrach said:


> I suggest you wait for it to be back in stock, it is the best 1266 stand I have seen


Agreed. It's really good to have it rest on the metal frame instead of the elastic headband. It also looks amazing as well.


----------



## Ciggavelli

paradoxper said:


> @Ciggavelli, did I miss your Sunday metal pick? Tsk.
> 
> A little less 'evil' but plenty of heavy with great tempo, timing, pop, and enough vocal range to satisfy.



I've been on a little funeral doom kick.  I like this album a lot.


----------



## vonBaron




----------



## DJJEZ

Sajid Amit said:


> Can anyone link a headphone stand that will work with the 1266 Phi TC?
> 
> This one appears to be sold out:
> 
> https://abyss-headphones.com/products/headphone-stand-for-abyss-ab-1266


It's coming back in stock soon in a few weeks I believe


----------



## Stereolab42

I don't know if it's just break-in or what but my weeks-old TC sounds like it's "leveled-up". The bass has taken big jump forward and just sounds glorious. I don't think it's just the fact I got the pads or frame positioned right because moving that around has minimal effect for me. Anyways, stuff like this (one of the best brutal death metal releases in years) has moved into head-imploding territory, no EQ needed:


----------



## leftside

I've now had the Abyss 1266 Phi TC for a week and I like them a lot! Sometimes the clarity of the soundstage startles me whilst listening! Vocals are outstanding.

I thought I had a good fit with the headphones, but now I'm not so sure. I've read of people having quite a hard time finding the sweet spot for the best bass impact. I also have the LCD-4 and I don't find the bass on the Abyss to be as deep as the LCD-4. Could someone point me in the direction of threads discussing adjustments to the setup - perhaps YouTube videos?


----------



## DJJEZ

leftside said:


> I've now had the Abyss 1266 Phi TC for a week and I like them a lot! Sometimes the clarity of the soundstage startles me whilst listening! Vocals are outstanding.
> 
> I thought I had a good fit with the headphones, but now I'm not so sure. I've read of people having quite a hard time finding the sweet spot for the best bass impact. I also have the LCD-4 and I don't find the bass on the Abyss to be as deep as the LCD-4. Could someone point me in the direction of threads discussing adjustments to the setup - perhaps YouTube videos?


----------



## leftside

DJJEZ said:


>



Thanks! Going to take a look now.


----------



## Orlok

leftside said:


> I've now had the Abyss 1266 Phi TC for a week and I like them a lot! Sometimes the clarity of the soundstage startles me whilst listening! Vocals are outstanding.
> 
> I thought I had a good fit with the headphones, but now I'm not so sure. I've read of people having quite a hard time finding the sweet spot for the best bass impact. I also have the LCD-4 and I don't find the bass on the Abyss to be as deep as the LCD-4. Could someone point me in the direction of threads discussing adjustments to the setup - perhaps YouTube videos?


It takes a bit of time to get a hang of the fit with the TC. I watched the Abyss adjustment vids several times before I got mine so I was ready. I also got used to adjusting the driver "wings" on the SR1a to get different amounts of bass response and fine-tuning the overall sound presentation so I got the hang of adjusting the TC pretty quickly.

Regarding the bass, I had the LCD-4 for a while and compared it to the TC extensively. Obviously, they both have great bass and I think I know what you mean by "I don't find the bass on the Abyss to be as deep as the LCD-4" but, to my ears, I'd say the LCD-4 has more bass quantity and rumble although the TC has more focused slam and punch. They are both great but I found I just "clicked" more with the TC for my particular listening tastes.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Has anyone tried Moon Audio cables with the Abyss AB 1266 Phi TC? Either the black or silver dragon?

If that is a no go, what are the cable manufacturers you would recommend, beyond Abyss's own stuff?


----------



## Roasty

Sajid Amit said:


> Has anyone tried Moon Audio cables with the Abyss AB 1266 Phi TC? Either the black or silver dragon?
> 
> If that is a no go, what are the cable manufacturers you would recommend, beyond Abyss's own stuff?



I had the silver dragon premium for the abyss. I liked it over the stock. I let it go after getting the SC though. It does come quite close to the SC, which is saying a lot considering the price difference.


----------



## Shahrose (May 13, 2021)

Roasty said:


> *I had the silver dragon premium for the abyss. I liked it over the stock.* I let it go after getting the SC though. It does come quite close to the SC, which is saying a lot considering the price difference.



Agreed. The SD V3 is noticeably better than the stock cable which is already quite decent. I hear a more prominent midrange, faster transients, clarity and sharper imaging. The stock wire does spread apart the soundstage more but it's more a byproduct of its diffuse imaging.


----------



## leftside (May 12, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


>



Wow that's crazy how you can adjust the bass by twisting the earcups one way or another. There is definitely a sweet spot for me where I've added a notch to the bass and it sounds super clean and strong. A little twist of the cups one way, and the bass is too light for me. A little twist to much the other way and the bass is boomy and unnatural.

Same with "moving" where the vocals are in relation to the instruments by moving the headphones forwards/backwards and up/down. Good stuff.


----------



## JLoud

Sajid Amit said:


> Has anyone tried Moon Audio cables with the Abyss AB 1266 Phi TC? Either the black or silver dragon?
> 
> If that is a no go, what are the cable manufacturers you would recommend, beyond Abyss's own stuff?


The Norne Audio Silvergarde is a very good cable. It too comes close to the SC. Similar sound profile as well. Helps bring out the mids for a more neutral sound. Wonderful craftsmanship too.


----------



## Orlok (May 13, 2021)

Sajid Amit said:


> Has anyone tried Moon Audio cables with the Abyss AB 1266 Phi TC? Either the black or silver dragon?
> 
> If that is a no go, what are the cable manufacturers you would recommend, beyond Abyss's own stuff?


I had the Silver Dragon V3 and thought it was good with a little more clarity and a bit wider soundstage than the stock cable but I also thought it was a little too bright to my ears with a bit of "sizzle" on the treble. Maybe I've become more treble-sensitive but, as I went back and forth between the SD V3 and the stock, I found I liked the stock better because it was smoother. But I still found the mids slightly too recessed for my taste so that's why I went for the SC and that took care of the "issue".

The TC is still not a midrange-prominent HP compared to others so I don't think a cable can drastically change that character. I'm very happy with the SC but I know that's a lot to spend on a cable. Based on your taste and preference for a smooth and forward mids, I don't think the Silver Dragon V3 is the right choice. I highly recommend the SC but I know that's a big outlay. It does seem that the Norne Audio Silvergarde gets a lot of props from TC owners. I considered it and then decided, "Ah, just spend the money on the SC and be done with it!" Haha. Well, at least I have no regrets.


----------



## Stereolab42

I finally struck gold in my search for a good, cheap backup amp able to run the Abyss and also more sensitive headphones. The Drop 789 and clones had the power and a low noise floor, but a horrible volume pot. The Schiit Jotty 2 had the power and a nice volume pot, but an unacceptable noise floor. But the SMSL SH-9, for $289, is outstanding:






It's THX AAA, which easily gives it the power to blast the Abyss; it gets ear-shattering loud at 70-80 on the dial at high gain. Dead silent with my Stellia as well. And the volume control is super-innovative at this price point. It's relay-stepped, and digitally controlled. But it has two options -- one will cause the volume to only change once you stop spinning the dial, preserving the life of the relays. The other will switch relays as you spin. Once you understand how it works either option is intuitive.

Only downside is US-side stock of these keeps selling out so you have to eBay from Asia and wait a month. But it's worth it.


----------



## Orlok

leftside said:


> Wow that's crazy how you can adjust the bass by twisting the earcups one way or another. There is definitely a sweet spot for me where I've added a notch to the bass and it sounds super clean and strong. A little twist of the cups one way, and the bass is too light for me. A little twist to much the other way and the bass is boomy and unnatural.
> 
> Same with "moving" where the vocals are in relation to the instruments by moving the headphones forwards/backwards and up/down. Good stuff.



Yup. No need to touch the EQ. I keep it flat and adjust the angle of the cups and/or move forward or back slightly depending on what I'm listening to. Generally, I try to find as balanced of a sound as possible.


----------



## Roasty

leftside said:


> Wow that's crazy how you can adjust the bass by twisting the earcups one way or another. There is definitely a sweet spot for me where I've added a notch to the bass and it sounds super clean and strong. A little twist of the cups one way, and the bass is too light for me. A little twist to much the other way and the bass is boomy and unnatural.
> 
> Same with "moving" where the vocals are in relation to the instruments by moving the headphones forwards/backwards and up/down. Good stuff.




If one notch is too much and the next notch is too little, I adjust where the headband itself sits on my head forward or backwards a bit. Seems to do the trick.


----------



## Slim1970

Stereolab42 said:


> I finally struck gold in my search for a good, cheap backup amp able to run the Abyss and also more sensitive headphones. The Drop 789 and clones had the power and a low noise floor, but a horrible volume pot. The Schiit Jotty 2 had the power and a nice volume pot, but an unacceptable noise floor. But the SMSL SH-9, for $289, is outstanding:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How does it compare to your Benchmark HPA-4?


----------



## Stereolab42

Slim1970 said:


> How does it compare to your Benchmark HPA-4?


HPA4 has more juice, but not a huge amount more. They are both transparent amps and I didn't really A/B them so can't speak to the sonic differences. But the HPA4 is a professional piece of equipment and has a lot more features with precise numbers documented and displayed for everything. And the gain control/relay-stepper is a world-beater (with 2-3x the range as the SMSL).


----------



## Pashmeister

Stereolab42 said:


> I finally struck gold in my search for a good, cheap backup amp able to run the Abyss and also more sensitive headphones. The Drop 789 and clones had the power and a low noise floor, but a horrible volume pot. The Schiit Jotty 2 had the power and a nice volume pot, but an unacceptable noise floor. But the SMSL SH-9, for $289, is outstanding:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have this simple SMSL SH stack in my living room for my PS5 gaming and for when I want to use headphones watching TV. Good to know I will be able to use 1266 on the couch for this too.


----------



## Slim1970

Pashmeister said:


> I have this simple SMSL SH stack in my living room for my PS5 gaming and for when I want to use headphones watching TV. Good to know I will be able to use 1266 on the couch for this too.


This is kind of what I’m looking for. Something I can plug my gaming system into, but nothing of reference quality. If it can drive my TC’s that’s even better.


----------



## Pashmeister (May 13, 2021)

Slim1970 said:


> This is kind of what I’m looking for. Something I can plug my gaming system into, but nothing of reference quality. If it can drive my TC’s that’s even better.


I’ve been using easier to drive cans (GL2000 and HKSE) with SH-9/SU-9 stack for gaming (PS5 bluetooth) and movies. I wonder if I’ll forget the gargantuan bear trap on my head while watching/playing. Worth a try


----------



## SuperBurrito

Sajid Amit said:


> Can anyone link a headphone stand that will work with the 1266 Phi TC?


I like the Woo adjustable double headphone stand.  https://wooaudio.com/accessories/hps

Price reasonable, build quality is great, and you can hold 2 headphones of just about any type.


----------



## mammal

SuperBurrito said:


> I like the Woo adjustable double headphone stand. https://wooaudio.com/accessories/hps
> 
> Price reasonable, build quality is great, and you can hold 2 headphones of just about any type.


+1 on this one, used to own it years ago, very nice quality stand.


----------



## Stereolab42

This simple, solid headphone stand for $25 works great for the Abyss:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08C4VSZJQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's plenty tall and the wide cradle doesn't let the Abyss flop or slide around. The base is not heavy so you do need to Velcro or otherwise secure it to your desk.


----------



## marcus2704

I noticed for sale a sub £3K Abyss Phi CC, I am not too familiar with the headphone specifics but can someone advise the difference between the CC and TC, and whether or not it is worth looking at the former?


----------



## mammal

marcus2704 said:


> I noticed for sale a sub £3K Abyss Phi CC, I am not too familiar with the headphone specifics but can someone advise the difference between the CC and TC, and whether or not it is worth looking at the former?


Consider watching what Abyss guys have to say about this subject, here


----------



## MatW

marcus2704 said:


> I noticed for sale a sub £3K Abyss Phi CC, I am not too familiar with the headphone specifics but can someone advise the difference between the CC and TC, and whether or not it is worth looking at the former?


Go for the TC. Going straight there is the cheaper route, most likely.


----------



## Sajid Amit

As discussed, I have come around to the 1266 Phi TC, esp paired with the May DAC. In fact, I have ordered mine already.

And then there’s Amir. 🙂






https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/abyss-ab-1266-phi-tc-review-headphone.23411/


----------



## TDinCali

It distorts at higher volumes?? I crank mine up like crazy using my X1 Audio formula S and there is no hint of distortion. What is he talking about???  Hahahahaha


----------



## JLoud

He can’t hear it either. But all that matters is what the instruments say. 🙄


----------



## vonBaron (May 15, 2021)

Sajid Amit said:


> As discussed, I have come around to the 1266 Phi TC, esp paired with the May DAC. In fact, I have ordered mine already.
> 
> And then there’s Amir. 🙂
> 
> ...


This site must go away...
But i have quite funn reading post there. It's hilarious sometimes.


----------



## genefruit (May 15, 2021)

An item of note from the ASR review.

"To check distortion and clipping, I turned up the volume during some instrumental female vocals. As I did the highs got a bit distorted and suddenly I was greeted with oddest buzzing sound! It literally went from paying music to playing noise. Fortunately that was pretty loud so don't expect it to be everyday problem. With music that was bass heavy, the AB-1266 can produce a ton of them until starts to make a ticking sound with bass peaks. Turn it up even more and they get louder still. Again, this is beyond normal use and onset is mild. Both of these experiences match the distortion measurements where we saw problems at multiple frequencies and not just bass. These drivers are simply not designed to be pushed hard."

Looking at his EQ (picture below" it appears that he hasn't decreased the overall volume level to ensure the two peaks he recommends are below 0db.  As a result, I'm not surprised he experienced what he describes above.

Edit for update: ASR thread indicates -4.9db volume reduction to account for EQ settings, although it's neither reflected in the picture below nor on ASR.  With a +5.0db boost at 3283hz, I think there still is potential for clipping.






I'm trying a less aggressive version (nothing more than +/- 2.5db) of his suggested EQ settings without the cut at 13.3k and my initial thoughts are not bad.  It'll take some time to get a fuller appreciation.

My biggest takeaway from the review is "Most wonderful was the spatial effects. You had this really nice halo at and behind your head that seemed to constantly delight in the way it would place instruments. Deep bass was substantial with my modest boost and clean, clean and clean! I listened for hours and didn't want to stop."

Looking forward to the, eventual, Susvara review.  I anticipate a golfing panther.


----------



## JLoud

I liked the part where "These drivers are simply not designed to be pushed hard." 
"Looking forward to the, eventual, Susvara review. I anticipate a golfing panther." Remind me not to golf with you. I would be too nervous looking at the panther.


----------



## TDinCali (May 15, 2021)

That site is a bit amusing to me because it reminds of my youth. When I was dirt poor along with all my friends and the topic of cars or other hobbies came up. We always rationalized what we would pick and what would be ideal and called out the superfluous waste of money the high end totl cars, motorbikes, bicycles, guns, tennis racquets, etc. Why spend $50k on a Ferrari (in the 80’s) when we can get a Ford Mustang and get the same 0-60. Why spend $500 on a bicycle when I can get a bike for $200 and go just as fast since it’s the rider not the bike...you know what I mean. 

but now a days, after listening and owning way too many headphones and not having to worry about what it costs, you get what you like. If I don’t like it or find something better, I sell one and buy the other. It’s the test of time and not a few days of listening that ultimately determines if a component or headphone stays. If the 1266 sucked, or my Utopia or Hifiman I’d get rid of it for half price and buy something else. I’m not married to these things.

there’s a whole secondary industry around music consumption. YouTube influencers, online forums, bloggers, etc. some have come up with their own schtick. For that site, it’s the young guy with limited funds thinking that bang for the buck is the most important criteria and finding flaws, no matter how petty or minuscule just further prove their point. So they love calling it out and acting like they’re above it. It’s natural, most of us have been there. As they mature, and their interests change and they appreciate a holistic aspects to hobbies they might change their tune.

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, there’s a lot more to this hobby than a graph, that can be manipulated numerous ways whether intentionally or unintentionally. We shouldn’t sweat it. If Amir makes you question why you bought the 1266 or makes you reconsider, then don’t buy it. Listen to more headphones and compare before you pull the trigger. If you already own, well, you have two choices. Keep it, since you arguably still have a “decent” headphone or take the financial hit and sell for 50% and buy what the herd and Amir consider to be the best HP. Although I have no clue what they consider the perfect headphone because I don’t think it exists.

I think we’re giving that person and that site way too much publicity and legitimacy by even talking about it so much. Amir might be a super sharp guy or he might be like my next door neighbor. A super successful doctor, but after speaking to him in depth you realize the guy is a complete airhead and I wouldn’t let him diagnose or treat me if my life depended on it. Some people no matter how distinguished or knowledgeable they come off have no substance or common sense.


----------



## Jon L

TDinCali said:


> I think we’re giving that person and that site way too much publicity and legitimacy by even talking about it so much. Amir might be a super sharp guy or he might be like my next door neighbor. A super successful doctor, but after speaking to him in depth you realize the guy is a complete airhead and I wouldn’t let him diagnose or treat me if my life depended on it. Some people no matter how distinguished or knowledgeable they come off have no substance or common sense.


Yup.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

genefruit said:


> An item of note from the ASR review.
> 
> "To check distortion and clipping, I turned up the volume during some instrumental female vocals. As I did the highs got a bit distorted and suddenly I was greeted with oddest buzzing sound! It literally went from paying music to playing noise. Fortunately that was pretty loud so don't expect it to be everyday problem. With music that was bass heavy, the AB-1266 can produce a ton of them until starts to make a ticking sound with bass peaks. Turn it up even more and they get louder still. Again, this is beyond normal use and onset is mild. Both of these experiences match the distortion measurements where we saw problems at multiple frequencies and not just bass. These drivers are simply not designed to be pushed hard."
> 
> ...


Does the eq setting end with Band5?


----------



## genefruit

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Does the eq setting end with Band5?


yes, there are five points on the frequency curve plus the overall setting which SHOULD be at least lower than the highest peak to keep from digital distortion.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

genefruit said:


> yes, there are five points on the frequency curve plus the overall setting which SHOULD be at least lower than the highest peak to keep from digital distortion.



Thanks. I must say, this EQ setting is pretty good so far (reducing the -11 to -2.5).


----------



## DJJEZ

Sajid Amit said:


> As discussed, I have come around to the 1266 Phi TC, esp paired with the May DAC. In fact, I have ordered mine already.
> 
> And then there’s Amir. 🙂
> 
> ...


----------



## MayaTlab

genefruit said:


> yes, there are five points on the frequency curve plus the overall setting which SHOULD be at least lower than the highest peak to keep from digital distortion.



Doesn't Roon also have a "headroom" setting to take care of that ?


----------



## genefruit

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Thanks. I must say, this EQ setting is pretty good so far (reducing the -11 to -2.5).


Here's where I'm at with the settings, with an overall -3db reduction.


----------



## genefruit

MayaTlab said:


> Doesn't Roon also have a "headroom" setting to take care of that ?


It does but we have no idea whether he has it turned on and if so, what headroom adjustment level he has it set at.  For my use, I find it better to leave this setting disabled and adjust each overall EQ setting.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

DJJEZ said:


>



Well. It got a golfing panther. What else do you want?


----------



## ra990 (May 15, 2021)

From Amir:


> Company -- unusually so -- recommends to try wearing them with some gap between them and your ears. I avoided that and measured the headphone with the tightest fit I could, lest there be riots in the streets due to bass response.


Well nobody wears them like that that so the measurements are useless. I think in general measurements for this headphone would be difficult to get right. Everyone wears them differently and there's a lot of customizing available to tweak sound by adjusting the fit.

Edited the post to make it less snarky.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ra990 said:


> From Amir:
> 
> Well nobody wears them like that that so the measurements are useless. Thanks.


However, the measured bass response looks fine, and for the record, I do wear the pads touching my face. 
Criticizing for criticizing's sake?


----------



## jlbrach (May 15, 2021)

Sajid Amit said:


> As discussed, I have come around to the 1266 Phi TC, esp paired with the May DAC. In fact, I have ordered mine already.
> 
> And then there’s Amir. 🙂
> 
> ...


Huh?????? The TC is as good a HP as exists. One can like a different HP for subjective reasons but this is downright silly..in addition since everyone wears them differently resulting in different sound signatures this particular discussion silly


----------



## ra990

Hoegaardener70 said:


> However, the measured bass response looks fine, and for the record, I do wear the pads touching my face.
> Criticizing for criticizing's sake?


You wear them with the tightest seal possible, against all recommendations?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ra990 said:


> You wear them with the tightest seal possible, against all recommendations?


Not the tightest seal, but for sure not with a gap - feels uncomfortable and I'll take it off after 10min. Wearing it close to the face allows me to listen longer, which is not against all recommendations in my books.


----------



## ra990

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Not the tightest seal, but for sure not with a gap - feels uncomfortable and I'll take it off after 10min. Wearing it close to the face allows me to listen longer, which is not against all recommendations in my books.


Yea that's fine, but that's not how they were measured. He specifically gave it a tight seal. I would maintain that these are one of the hardest headphones to measure accurately.

Also disappointing to not see a single note about how transparent and clear these headphones are. Like leagues above others.


----------



## MayaTlab

ra990 said:


> I would maintain that these are one of the hardest headphones to measure accurately.


A little too much consistency with Crinacle's measurements to assert that : https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/abyss-ab-1266-phi-cc/
Also many of these features wouldn't be significantly affected by seal.


----------



## ra990

MayaTlab said:


> A little too much consistency with Crinacle's measurements to assert that : https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/abyss-ab-1266-phi-cc/
> Also many of these features wouldn't be significantly affected by seal.


Not really, I'm sure they both gave them a tight seal, like you would with most normal headphones. Both measurements reflect that. That's not how people listen to the headphones.


----------



## MayaTlab

ra990 said:


> Not really, I'm sure they both gave them a tight seal, like you would with most normal headphones. Both measurements reflect that. That's not how people listen to the headphones.



I'm not sure you'd be quite happy to see what they'd measure like with a lighter seal given how most planars behave in such situations... (looks to me like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation).
Any which way anything above 300-400hz is less likely to be affected.


----------



## ra990 (May 15, 2021)

MayaTlab said:


> I'm not sure you'd be quite happy to see what they'd measure like with a lighter seal given how most planars behave in such situations... (looks to me like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation).
> Any which way anything above 300-400hz is less likely to be affected.


Agree, hence why I think they're difficult to measure accurately. Accurately meaning the way people typically hear them once they have found the right fit.


----------



## E-norm

Sajid Amit said:


> As discussed, I have come around to the 1266 Phi TC, esp paired with the May DAC.


I would love to hear more on how you regard the 1266s now in relation to the midrange issues. Do you think it is just a matter of adapting to its sound profile or is the May the secret sauce? How does the Susvara sound with the May for instance?


----------



## Stereolab42

vonBaron said:


> This site must go away...
> But i have quite funn reading post there. It's hilarious sometimes.



The site has a use with its measurements of equipment with precisely defined inputs/outputs like DACs and preamps. Those boxes SHOULD darn well be wires with gains (with the exception of my beloved tubes, lol).  But in years of listening to many headphones across the spectrum not once have I found measurements taken on a plastic head to have any correlation with reality. There is no way to take into account how an individual's head shape, ear physiology, and just the preferred orientation of the headphones and cups affect this. That thread is basically just the bleating of the poors who, even if they could afford this, have prejudiced themselves out of any possibility of a fair evaluation because JPS Labs has already been dismissed as a purveyor of -- gasp -- audiophile cables!


----------



## paradoxper

Snacable market and up-selling aside, these morons at ASR continue to take dumpy-ass measurements, there's such minimal credibility all around.


----------



## Bonddam

E-norm said:


> I would love to hear more on how you regard the 1266s now in relation to the midrange issues. Do you think it is just a matter of adapting to its sound profile or is the May the secret sauce? How does the Susvara sound with the May for instance?


I know you didn't ask me but I never had to adapt to the 1266 TC. It was love at first listen with the correct fit.


----------



## Orlok

I believe designing and building fine audio equipment is like designing and building musical instruments. It's as much art as it is science - probably more towards art. Sound is so subjective. Intuition is as important as technical knowledge and skills. There are many guitars that are $500 and some that are well over $5,000. There are pianos that are $10,000 and a Steinway Grand that can easily go over $200,000. If they measured these musical instruments through these machines, would one show as being "superior" over the other?

I've browsed through that site and I'll say that there is some useful information in regards to technical performance and things like that from a "scientific" point of view but there is such an ingrained negative bias towards anything that's considered high-end or audiophile that I just don't bother going there anymore. To me, it looks like a grouchy old men's club with people who seem to like looking at graphs more than listening to music. I really couldn't care less about what they have to say. I'll trust my ears over their eyes looking at the graphs. Back to listening with the TC!


----------



## JLoud

Measurements are important for designing a headphone or amp or whatever. But to the listener, not really. I rarely like the best measuring gear. I have a Schiit Magnius and a Woo WA33, the Magnius measures much better, but it doesn’t sound anywhere near as good. Trust Your ears, they’re the only ones that matter.


----------



## ra990

I don't know why I'm engaging over there. There's such a bias against anything Abyss and people who have never heard them (and probably never will) think they can judge them based on some squiggly lines.


----------



## Roasty (May 15, 2021)

I was so amused reading that thread. The first 4 pages were that of judging and commenting by people who have never even listened to the 1266. I was about to post something but thought it would be a futile exercise.. Kudos to @ra990 who was the first to chime in.

*edit
I caved and chimed in..


----------



## ufospls2

I know the ASR dudes would say I'm a victim of marketing, and price bias ("its expensive therefore its good" mentality.) 

but

I've owned pretty much every flagship headphone available, and a lot of the lower level headphones from various brands as well. Abyss has been my favourite since I first bought a used pair of the original 1266. Other headphones have come and gone, but since I first tried them, I have always had an Abyss of some form in my collection. The Susvara is a hell of a headphone, it truly is, yet my AB-1266TC remains my favourite headphone I have ever tried or owned. 

I know the measurements aren't "good." Yet I still reach for the 1266 TC over anything else when I really _really_ want to have a listening session that I will enjoy. 

I can be shown data till the cows come home, I just don't care. I like their sound.


----------



## ra990

Guys over there are talking about how they "avoid headfi like the plague". Why? Because you might actually encounter some first hand opinions from people who...GASP...have actually heard the headphones being discussed? What a wild concept, I know.


----------



## seadog123 (May 15, 2021)

I’ve been debating over possible headphones for some weeks now. They have to match well with my Chord Hugo TT2, preferably via the front H/P Jack. The Susvara was good, but I was at +9 on the volume & assumed I was at close to max volume, Focal Utopia was good, too bright/full on for me though, LCD4 was really, really good actually. Midrange heaven, wide soundstage etc 

I almost caved in and got them, but the Abyss 1266 Phi TC keeps gnawing at my brain to buy them !

Deposit paid, now waiting for stock to arrive....... It was a blind purchase as no dealers anywhere near my city to try them out. I hope I’m not disappointed.


----------



## lumdicks (May 16, 2021)

ufospls2 said:


> I know the ASR dudes would say I'm a victim of marketing, and price bias ("its expensive therefore its good" mentality.)
> 
> but
> 
> ...


As long as you enjoy your music via the gears, then they worth your hard earned money.

I have never bothered myself with measurement (not specification). We are listening to music, not pink noise with different frequency, loudness and separation.

The same "measurement" argument takes place on Meze Empyrean very often. With my collection and other TOTL CANs / IEMs owned previously, I can say that I enjoy most with the Empy, which is so musical and foot-tapped engaging.


----------



## Sajid Amit (May 16, 2021)

E-norm said:


> I would love to hear more on how you regard the 1266s now in relation to the midrange issues. Do you think it is just a matter of adapting to its sound profile or is the May the secret sauce? How does the Susvara sound with the May for instance?


The first two times I listened to the 1266 Phi TC, I ran them off a Topping D90, RME ADI 2, and then the Metronome DAC as the DAC in the chain. The amps I tried where the iFi Pro iCAN and the GSX Mini.

On those occasions, I also have to disclaimer my test tracks had a lot of vocals-based tracks, some grunge / alternative rock (Seattle Grunge scene stuff, plus a lot of Chris Cornell solos), and some Stabbing Westward tracks (which have a lot of synths, etc). And lastly, I had a lot of jazz vocals.

I was used to the Susvara for these tracks. When A/B-ing with the Susvara, these tracks just sounded more "right" on the Susvara. The Susvara timbre was better, as well as the overall frequency response. These are tracks I have listened to since I was a kid, off CDs, in some cases, Vinyl, so I feel I "know" these tracks.

However, the third time I got the TC in, I listened to some classic rock, electronica, trip hop, and other bass-heavy genres. My track list included Nicholas Jaar, Daft Punk, some Bruce Dickinson, Crystal Method, as well as soundtracks like the Man of Steel soundtrack. This time, my chain was the May DAC to the iFi Pro iCAn and the May DAC to the Accuphase e380.

Also, this time, I spent a lot more time experimenting with the fit and placement of the cups.

End result: I was *WOW-ed*.

The TC sound stage was more open sounding than the Susvara
Its sheer physicality was breathtaking.
I also felt the midrange sounded more natural and liquid off the May DAC, no question
I have ordered the TC already, so once it comes in, which will take a bit of time, I will surely do longer comparisons of the TC's pairing with other source gear.

The Susvara on the May DAC sounds very "right". Again, the timbre, FR, which are the Susvara's strengths are represented very well. The May DAC is very resolving, as you would expect, and very spacious sounding. Things like reverb, trailing edge of tones, environmental cues, are just more evident. Tonally, I would *not* say the May is warm-sounding. It's very neutral, but notes have slightly, ever-so-slightly, softer edges, which people call an "analog" presentation.

But, of course, others have experimented with the TC with other gear, e.g., the SC cable, the Woo Amp, PrimaLuna amps, and the AIC Riviera/Egoista, with great results, so that's there. The other R2R DAC recommended with the 1266 Phi TC (the one DMS took to Linus, lol) is the Sagra DAC.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Sajid Amit

ra990 said:


> Guys over there are talking about how they "avoid headfi like the plague". Why? Because you might actually encounter some first hand opinions from people who...GASP...have actually heard the headphones being discussed? What a wild concept, I know.


Wow. That does sound ridiculous. The reason I like head-fi above all forums is that there are conflicting views here, so we avoid cultishness, compared to other forums! Lol.


----------



## MayaTlab (May 16, 2021)

Stereolab42 said:


> There is no way to take into account how an individual's head shape, ear physiology, and just the preferred orientation of the headphones and cups affect this.


The influence of an individual's morphology on FR tends to be, IMO, both under and over-appreciated. It's a fairly complex subject that I can only ever hope to understand partially, but there are a lot of misconceptions about it.
But to make it short, I think that it helps to chop up the FR spectrum into various parts :
- below 250-300hz : seal can _very_ significantly affect bass response, particularly for headphones with a closed front volume or lack of deliberate venting. This is something Rtings is very useful for as they measure bass response on five actual humans.
- between 300-1khz : low variations across individuals and test rigs. This is the range where you can have the most confidence in measurements.
- between 1khz and 4-5khz : ear canal gain region. The general shape and individual features of third party measurements won't change that much, but the shape of your own ears can modulate it quite significantly.
- Above 4-5khz : lots of variations between individuals depending on positioning, ear shape, etc. Not only the magnitude but also the location of peaks / dips can change.
Add to that sample variation, pad wear, etc.
We can actually measure what the FR curve near someone's eardrum is, for example with a tool like this one : https://www.etymotic.com/auditory-research/microphones/er-7c.html
This study is IMO quit interesting on the subject of variance between listeners : https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=16877

In regards to the 1266 a lot of the sharp ("high q") features in the 300-4000hz or so range (blue arrows) are very unlikely to magically disappear once on your head and their magnitude is largely audible. In general the range in green is likely to have the same features located at a similar frequency once on your head (with more potential for variation above 1khz or so).
The big dip between 6 and 7khz (red arrow) is very significant in terms of magnitude, and there's a good chance that it would manifest in some form once on your head. Perhaps with less magnitude, perhaps slightly shifted, but it's likely to be there one way or another.
In the purple area seal can have a significant effect. Difficult to know exactly how without testing the headphones for breach of seal, like Solderdude does on DIYaudio. For example here with the Sundara : https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/hifiman/sundara/




https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/abyss-ab-1266-phi-cc/

All I'm saying is that third party measurements made on a rig like Crinacle's or Amir's are not precise enough to, let's say, anticipate whether a single individual would prefer a pair of HD600 over a pair of HD560S or vice-versa (not enough difference between them, particularly in the range where we can be the most confident about measurements), but they're largely precise enough that we can gather a lot of informations on headphones, particularly ones such as the 1266 where a lot of, let's say, _interesting_ features with high Q and a significant magnitude happen in the range where we can be most confident about them (and it's no surprise that for the most part Crinacle and Amir's measurements are concordant in many ways).


----------



## mammal

I am currently very happy with my 10k budget being Chord Hugo TT 2 driving AB-1266 Phi TC. But as everyone, I am already wondering how much better would 15k or 20k budget sound. So for 15k budget, I tried Chord M-Scaler (my first impressions here, follow up after a week here) - to my ears, not enough improvement to warrant the jump in price. So, what else could I build for 20k (15k if you discount for AB-1266)? Most likely Chord Dave DAC with Formula S amplifier.

But then I thought, how could I replicate what HTT2 offers me, being all in one device? So I contacted my local dCS dealer and scheduled a home demo for Bartók. It has headphone outs, not as powerful as Formula S and after talking to Joe from Abyss, the amp is not as good as Formula S with Powerman, but still decent enough. In his words, best would be to pair Bartók with WA33, but that goes more into 30k budget (and no way to audition in Switzerland, as Mike from Woo Audio told me that they do not have any dealer here).

I know most of you prefer having separate streamer, upsampler, dac and amp, but I am more of a type "all-in-one" if possible. I am a Chord fan, so this is not to discount what Dave can offer (only heard it at CanJam with Audeze LCD-4). I am also aware, that Bartók is more known for its DAC than headphone amplifier, but as with everything, I won't know how good it is unless I test it myself.

So, any of you running AB-1266 from Bartók? Are you satisfied, or did you end up getting an amplifier down the line anyway? Thanks!


----------



## genefruit

mammal said:


> I am currently very happy with my 10k budget being Chord Hugo TT 2 driving AB-1266 Phi TC. But as everyone, I am already wondering how much better would 15k or 20k budget sound. So for 15k budget, I tried Chord M-Scaler (my first impressions here, follow up after a week here) - to my ears, not enough improvement to warrant the jump in price. So, what else could I build for 20k (15k if you discount for AB-1266)? Most likely Chord Dave DAC with Formula S amplifier.
> 
> But then I thought, how could I replicate what HTT2 offers me, being all in one device? So I contacted my local dCS dealer and scheduled a home demo for Bartók. It has headphone outs, not as powerful as Formula S and after talking to Joe from Abyss, the amp is not as good as Formula S with Powerman, but still decent enough. In his words, best would be to pair Bartók with WA33, but that goes more into 30k budget (and no way to audition in Switzerland, as Mike from Woo Audio told me that they do not have any dealer here).
> 
> ...


Specs say 1.4w into 32ohms. TT2 is 2.7 front and 10.8 rear. Might sound great but it does have less power than the TT2.


----------



## mammal

genefruit said:


> Specs say 1.4w into 32ohms. TT2 is 2.7 front and 10.8 rear. Might sound great but it does have less power than the TT2.


That's exactly what I am worried about. Yet, Abyss on YouTube said it sounds just fine with AB-1266. And Joe confirmed the same with me via email. I won't know until I try. I am aware that it won't be even close to what TT2 outputs (according to Rob, it is 1.72W SE and 6.9W XLR at 50 Ohm).


----------



## genefruit

mammal said:


> That's exactly what I am worried about. Yet, Abyss on YouTube said it sounds just fine with AB-1266. And Joe confirmed the same with me via email. I won't know until I try. I am aware that it won't be even close to what TT2 outputs (according to Rob, it is 1.72W SE and 6.9W XLR at 50 Ohm).





mammal said:


> That's exactly what I am worried about. Yet, Abyss on YouTube said it sounds just fine with AB-1266. And Joe confirmed the same with me via email. I won't know until I try. I am aware that it won't be even close to what TT2 outputs (according to Rob, it is 1.72W SE and 6.9W XLR at 50 Ohm).


If it does have enough power for you, then DAVE enters the equation. Spec at 32ohms matches Bartok. From Chord page. 1% THD 6.8v RMS with 33Ω (1.4w)


----------



## mammal

genefruit said:


> If it does have enough power for you, then DAVE enters the equation. Spec at 32ohms matches Bartok. From Chord page. 1% THD 6.8v RMS with 33Ω (1.4w)


So I have been thinking about this and did further research. According to Rob, at 50 Ohm Dave outputs 0.926W. However, I think we have been looking at dCS Bartók's specs wrong. I found in their manual (page 11) the following chart.



Before seeing this, I assumed that if their specs say "1.4w into 32ohms" then it will be lower at 50 ohm, but it seems not to be the case. The power output grows up to 2.7 W roughly for like 60 ohm, where it peaks. However, for AB-1266 it seems to be around/almost 2 W, as it is rated around 50 Ohm. If this is true, then Bartók is as powerful as HTT2's front SE (1.72W), but of course not as powerful as HTT2's rear XLRs (6.9W). Many folks on HTT2 thread have said that they do not hear any difference going between HTT2's SE and XLR, as long as they volume match. I do have the same adapter, so I have tested this myself and I think for EDM music, there is a slight difference in XLRs being a bit more dynamic. But if Bartók really outputs 2W for AB-1266, then it might as well be enough for me. Let's see!


----------



## genefruit

mammal said:


> So I have been thinking about this and did further research. According to Rob, at 50 Ohm Dave outputs 0.926W. However, I think we have been looking at dCS Bartók's specs wrong. I found in their manual (page 11) the following chart.
> 
> 
> 
> Before seeing this, I assumed that if their specs say "1.4w into 32ohms" then it will be lower at 50 ohm, but it seems not to be the case. The power output grows up to 2.7 W roughly for like 60 ohm, where it peaks. However, for AB-1266 it seems to be around/almost 2 W, as it is rated around 50 Ohm. If this is true, then Bartók is as powerful as HTT2's front SE (1.72W), but of course not as powerful as HTT2's rear XLRs (6.9W). Many folks on HTT2 thread have said that they do not hear any difference going between HTT2's SE and XLR, as long as they volume match. I do have the same adapter, so I have tested this myself and I think for EDM music, there is a slight difference in XLRs being a bit more dynamic. But if Bartók really outputs 2W for AB-1266, then it might as well be enough for me. Let's see!


The chart is showing the difference between balanced and unbalanced.  DCS seems to be missing an opportunity to state the balanced out values in the specs.  Good eye and I look forward to hearing your experience with it.


----------



## mammal

genefruit said:


> The chart is showing the difference between balanced and unbalanced. DCS seems to be missing an opportunity to state the balanced out values in the specs. Good eye and I look forward to hearing your experience with it.


Yeah I agree, I wish they better documented their specs, I think it would be more welcoming for those who have more power hungry headphones. But their page 12 goes into the details a bit more, I guess a lucky find.


----------



## paradoxper

MayaTlab said:


> The influence of an individual's morphology on FR tends to be, IMO, both under and over-appreciated. It's a fairly complex subject that I can only ever hope to understand partially, but there are a lot of misconceptions about it.
> But to make it short, I think that it helps to chop up the FR spectrum into various parts :
> - below 250-300hz : seal can _very_ significantly affect bass response, particularly for headphones with a closed front volume or lack of deliberate venting. This is something Rtings is very useful for as they measure bass response on five actual humans.
> - between 300-1khz : low variations across individuals and test rigs. This is the range where you can have the most confidence in measurements.
> ...


dumb.

Unlikely / likely without a meaningful execution of measurements as foundation, this entire crowd is pure conjecture. Amir can't be bothered unless special time permitted to at least provide double-measurements for some partial affirmation. 

This is why this ASR movement is horsedonk. Good enough is good enough even if it's rather poor. What the ****.

At least with SBAF, you can encompass some long-standing experiential-learning-curve. Purrin at least tries.


----------



## SteveM324 (May 16, 2021)

Sajid Amit said:


> The first two times I listened to the 1266 Phi TC, I ran them off a Topping D90, RME ADI 2, and then the Metronome DAC as the DAC in the chain. The amps I tried where the iFi Pro iCAN and the GSX Mini.
> 
> On those occasions, I also have to disclaimer my test tracks had a lot of vocals-based tracks, some grunge / alternative rock (Seattle Grunge scene stuff, plus a lot of Chris Cornell solos), and some Stabbing Westward tracks (which have a lot of synths, etc). And lastly, I had a lot of jazz vocals.
> 
> ...


Sajid, I agree that the May is a great DAC for the TC and Susvara.  I got my May KTE DAC about a month ago and now that it's burned in, my listening sessions have put a big smile on my face.  I'm using the Auris Nirvana with Sophia Electric EL34-ST power tubes and a Mullard NOS CV4003 input tube which makes for a great pairing with the TC and Susvara.  All my electronics are plugged into a Equi=Tech 2RQ 20a balanced power conditioner.


----------



## Mh996

seadog123 said:


> I’ve been debating over possible headphones for some weeks now. They have to match well with my Chord Hugo TT2, preferably via the front H/P Jack. The Susvara was good, but I was at +9 on the volume & assumed I was at close to max volume, Focal Utopia was good, too bright/full on for me though, LCD4 was really, really good actually. Midrange heaven, wide soundstage etc
> 
> I almost caved in and got them, but the Abyss 1266 Phi TC keeps gnawing at my brain to buy them !
> 
> Deposit paid, now waiting for stock to arrive....... It was a blind purchase as no dealers anywhere near my city to try them out. I hope I’m not disappointed.


I’d highly recommend investing in an adapter to use the TT2’s rear XLRs. I thought it made a big improvement in the sound of my AB1266. The 1266 isn’t that much more sensitive than the Susvara; my volume pot was around -14 from the 1/4” jack.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Mh996 said:


> I’d highly recommend investing in an adapter to use the TT2’s rear XLRs. I thought it made a big improvement in the sound of my AB1266. The 1266 isn’t that much more sensitive than the Susvara; my volume pot was around -14 from the 1/4” jack.


Is the TT2 as bass shy as its smaller brother?


----------



## Slim1970

Mh996 said:


> I’d highly recommend investing in an adapter to use the TT2’s rear XLRs. I thought it made a big improvement in the sound of my AB1266. The 1266 isn’t that much more sensitive than the Susvara; my volume pot was around -14 from the 1/4” jack.


I put my adapter for the TT2 XLR inputs up for sale here:

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/moon-audio-black-dragon-tt2-xlr-adapter.4609/


----------



## leftside

Long week for me. Looking forward to a late afternoon and evening of listening. Really enjoying the Abyss with the Glenn 300B (in picture) Supratek preamp and Lampiaztor DAC (not in picture). It feels like the Abyss was the last piece of the puzzle, but it was worth the wait.


----------



## mammal

leftside said:


> Long week for me. Looking forward to a late afternoon and evening of listening. Really enjoying the Abyss with the Glenn 300B (in picture) Supratek preamp and Lampiaztor DAC (not in picture). It feels like the Abyss was the last piece of the puzzle, but it was worth the wait.


Very interesting pad placement. Do you have Left on 11 and Right on 1? Mine is reverse, haha.


----------



## Slim1970

leftside said:


> Long week for me. Looking forward to a late afternoon and evening of listening. Really enjoying the Abyss with the Glenn 300B (in picture) Supratek preamp and Lampiaztor DAC (not in picture). It feels like the Abyss was the last piece of the puzzle, but it was worth the wait.


That's a very nice setup. All tubes through and through. Do you find the TC lacking in dynamics at all?


----------



## leftside

mammal said:


> Very interesting pad placement. Do you have Left on 11 and Right on 1? Mine is reverse, haha.


I followed one of the great YouTube videos from above, and those were the pad settings the guy recommended to start with, and I seem to like it. May experiment some more.


----------



## mammal

leftside said:


> I followed one of the great YouTube videos from above, and those were the pad settings the guy recommended to start with, and I seem to like it. May experiment some more


Yeah I know which ones, the official AB-1266 setup videos from Joe From Abyss. Try out other settings as well, it does improve bass performance


----------



## leftside

Slim1970 said:


> That's a very nice setup. All tubes through and through. Do you find the TC lacking in dynamics at all?


Absolutely not


----------



## leftside

mammal said:


> Yeah I know which ones, the official AB-1266 setup videos from Joe From Abyss. Try out other settings as well, it does improve bass performance


Yes I did. Definitely improved the bass. I like how I can dial-in or dial-out the bass with these headphones. I think I've found my sweet spot now tho.


----------



## mammal

leftside said:


> Yes I did. Definitely improved the bass. I like how I can dial-in or dial-out the bass with these headphones. I think I've found my sweet spot now tho.


Oh for sure, toeing in and out changes things a lot too.


----------



## Mh996

Amir at ASR reviewed the TCs and, while giving it a more favorable review than the shitstorm that was his Diana V2 review, he still did not hear the AB1266 like the vast majority of its owners do. He conditionally recommended it with the below EQ preset. I tried this on my setup and it has to be the worst EQ I’ve ever tried on the TC. Again I’m wondering how he has to be wearing the 1266 for this EQ to correct anything. Maybe this has to do with me having my pads at 9/3. Does anyone who wears the TC with a different pad or head position hear this EQ preset as any improvement, and does anyone have an EQ that they recommend? I’m curious to know what can be done to draw male vocals a little forward, but I’m pretty bad at hearing dips/peaks and crafting an EQ to correct it.


----------



## Mh996 (May 16, 2021)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Is the TT2 as bass shy as its smaller brother?


I haven’t heard the Hugo2, Qutest, or TT. Bass body was probably the biggest individual improvement that I noticed when going from 1/4” to XLR. But soundstage width and instrument separation also improved.


----------



## PhazeCrive

When you have to save up another 20'ish weeks for the TC alone and another half year for gear to run it.


----------



## genefruit

Mh996 said:


> Amir at ASR reviewed the TCs and, while giving it a more favorable review than the shitstorm that was his Diana V2 review, he still did not hear the AB1266 like the vast majority of its owners do. He conditionally recommended it with the below EQ preset. I tried this on my setup and it has to be the worst EQ I’ve ever tried on the TC. Again I’m wondering how he has to be wearing the 1266 for this EQ to correct anything. Maybe this has to do with me having my pads at 9/3. Does anyone who wears the TC with a different pad or head position hear this EQ preset as any improvement, and does anyone have an EQ that they recommend? I’m curious to know what can be done to draw male vocals a little forward, but I’m pretty bad at hearing dips/peaks and crafting an EQ to correct it.


Try something less aggressive, like this. -3db drop to adjust for peaks.


----------



## jlbrach

the TC doesnt need to be EQ'ed but hey if you like it go for it


----------



## Hoegaardener70

jlbrach said:


> the TC doesnt need to be EQ'ed but hey if you like it go for it


The Eq with band 5 toned down to 3 is a great enhancement. It's a free upgrade


----------



## leftside

PhazeCrive said:


> When you have to save up another 20'ish weeks for the TC alone and another half year for gear to run it.


It's taken me decades haha


----------



## paradoxper

leftside said:


> It's taken me decades haha


And you're just gettin' started.


----------



## jlbrach

Hoegaardener70 said:


> The Eq with band 5 toned down to 3 is a great enhancement. It's a free upgrade


everyone hears things differently,personally I see no need to EQ the TC....


----------



## Orlok

I have found that I don't need to EQ the TC at all. I just wanted to have the mids brought out forward a little more, not boost it in relation to the bass and treble. I try to use the EQ as sparingly as possible as boosting or attenuating a band of frequencies inevitably affects something else. I've been able to get the desired result with the mids by getting the SC cables and smoothening out the highs with the RAVPower batteries for the HMS and TT2. Of course, adjusting the angle of the TC's pads and moving them forward and back slightly in relation to yours also has a subtle but quite noticeable effect depending on what you are listening to.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

jlbrach said:


> everyone hears things differently,personally I see no need to EQ the TC....


I also did not see any need at all, until I punched in the presets.


----------



## attmci (May 18, 2021)

genefruit said:


> Try something less aggressive, like this. -3db drop to adjust for peaks.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (May 18, 2021)

attmci said:


> Amir is a imbecile. Period.


I enjoyed his review, but not the following comments.


----------



## attmci (May 18, 2021)

I had read many of his posts and found him a perfect troll.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Has anyone driven the TC off the Auris Nirvana or the Cayin HA300?


----------



## paradoxper

Sajid Amit said:


> Has anyone driven the TC off the Auris Nirvana or the Cayin HA300?


Pinging @SteveM324.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Hi guys,

I am planning to sell my my ifi Pro iDSD and ifi Pro iCan, to replace it with a Chord Hugo TT2 (connecting the Abyss via the XLR speaker output using a Moon Audio adapter).
Good idea for improving the sound of the ab-1266tc?

Thanks!


----------



## mammal

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am planning to sell my my ifi Pro iDSD and ifi Pro iCan, to replace it with a Chord Hugo TT2 (connecting the Abyss via the XLR speaker output using a Moon Audio adapter).
> Good idea for improving the sound of the ab-1266tc?
> ...


Many head-fiers have been enjoying AB-1266 on their TT2s. I don't have direct experience with iFi Pro gear (only owned iFi Diablo), but you can't go wrong with TT2, especially with the XLR adapter.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

mammal said:


> Many head-fiers have been enjoying AB-1266 on their TT2s. I don't have direct experience with iFi Pro gear (only owned iFi Diablo), but you can't go wrong with TT2, especially with the XLR adapter.



Thanks! However, the ifi Pro gear is really quite good as well, most people seem to prefer the TT2 via the Pro iDSD, but the difference might not justify all the gear changing. Hope somebody owned both at one point ....


----------



## InTune321

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am planning to sell my my ifi Pro iDSD and ifi Pro iCan, to replace it with a Chord Hugo TT2 (connecting the Abyss via the XLR speaker output using a Moon Audio adapter).
> Good idea for improving the sound of the ab-1266tc?
> ...


While I don't have direct experience with the Abyss 1266TC, as mine are on order and have been waiting for 9 weeks now... However, I have extensively played with the Diana Phi's using the Se and XLR of the TT2's. With these using the XLR's opens most things up and gives a little more of everything. I imagine you will notice a similar effect on the 1266's. The TT2 (I also use an mscaler) is an incredible DAC/amp that won't disappoint with its musicality, transparency, and surprising power efficiency. When my 1266TC's finally arrive I also hope to bring my Chord Etude into the mix as well.


----------



## JLoud

Mammal, what do you think of the Diablo? Specs would say it could drive the TC and LCD4, what does actual use show?


----------



## mammal

JLoud said:


> Mammal, what do you think of the Diablo? Specs would say it could drive the TC and LCD4, what does actual use show?


I have never tried AB-1266 on Diablo, only Diana V2. But I think it has plenty of power to drive TC, and definitely YES for LCD4s. When using Diana V2, there was enough headroom on them, especially on the Turbo mode, haha. If I had to have something portable for my TCs, Diablo would be my choice, costs around 1k, much cheaper / smaller setup than Hugo 2 + BX2-Plus combo (costs 3k and is a two piece, but much more capable in both audio quality and power output). Hope this helps.


----------



## jlbrach

mammal said:


> Many head-fiers have been enjoying AB-1266 on their TT2s. I don't have direct experience with iFi Pro gear (only owned iFi Diablo), but you can't go wrong with TT2, especially with the XLR adapter.


the ifi pro can is actually a darn good amp for the money in my experience


----------



## Orlok

Our guitars and the TC do seem to go well together.  And that white Superconductor V guitar cable is truly awesome.

From Abyss' IG:


----------



## paradoxper

InTune321 said:


> While I don't have direct experience with the Abyss 1266TC, as mine are on order and have been waiting for 9 weeks now... However, I have extensively played with the Diana Phi's using the Se and XLR of the TT2's. With these using the XLR's opens most things up and gives a little more of everything. I imagine you will notice a similar effect on the 1266's. The TT2 (I also use an mscaler) is an incredible DAC/amp that won't disappoint with its musicality, transparency, and surprising power efficiency. When my 1266TC's finally arrive I also hope to bring my Chord Etude into the mix as well.


9 weeks! Good grief!   Abyss demand is just killing.


----------



## DJJEZ

paradoxper said:


> 9 weeks! Good grief!   Abyss demand is just killing.


I'm about to hit 10 weeks


----------



## InTune321

DJJEZ said:


> I'm about to hit 10 weeks


I have been told 10 weeks now - started at 6, then 8, and now 10. We will see I guess...


----------



## ken6217

I’ll rent you mine. Fifty bucks a day, or $300 for the week. $10 more for the SC cable.


----------



## DJJEZ

InTune321 said:


> I have been told 10 weeks now - started at 6, then 8, and now 10. We will see I guess...


Apparently their CNC machine was down recently for 2 weeks and they didn't make any headphones within those 2 weeks


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> I'm about to hit 10 weeks


Same here…they are still making these, aren’t they?


----------



## Gadget67

Gadget67 said:


> Same here…they are still making these, aren’t they?


My crack dealer says maybe another two weeks…


----------



## DJJEZ

Gadget67 said:


> Same here…they are still making these, aren’t they?


----------



## Ciggavelli

The whole headphone supply chain is f’d up. I’ve been waiting for my Solitaire Ps and Focal Utopias for several months now too. I just got my LCD-4 after like 6 weeks, due to a wood shortage.

It’s all 

But, I guess Covid?...


----------



## Gadget67

I’m doggedly waiting…


----------



## littlej0e (May 19, 2021)

I hit 12 weeks tomorrow. Sigh…

These things better be so good they get me pregnant…lol


----------



## DJJEZ (May 19, 2021)

@littlej0e  When you get yours then I will have hope lmao


----------



## littlej0e

DJJEZ said:


> @littlej0e  When you get yours then I will have hope lmao


Haha. Keep the faith!!!

For what it’s worth, my dealer just told me I should get them within the next 2-3 weeks. We shall see. My dealer obviously doesn’t have much say in the matter. Apparently, the Abyss boys are ridiculously slammed and recently had some trouble with their CNC machines. It is what it is I guess.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> The whole headphone supply chain is f’d up. I’ve been waiting for my Solitaire Ps and Focal Utopias for several months now too. I just got my LCD-4 after like 6 weeks, due to a wood shortage.
> 
> It’s all
> 
> But, I guess Covid?...


LMAO. I got my Rognir from Kennerton in only 4 days from Russia. 

Shrugs.


----------



## Polygonhell

littlej0e said:


> I hit 12 weeks tomorrow. Sigh…
> 
> These things better be so good they get me pregnant…lol


Wow I’m on week 6 and was starting to get ansy


----------



## leftside

The world wide supply chain is messed up. Try getting a new mountain ebike... And these things are even more expensive than the Abyss.


----------



## SuperBurrito

leftside said:


> The world wide supply chain is messed up. Try getting a new mountain ebike... And these things are even more expensive than the Abyss.


My TCs took 12 weeks.  But so many other products from around the world will be delayed.  A friend asked a dealer when a new Specialized mountain bike would be available - not until summer 2022 due to parts shortages.


----------



## Orlok

SuperBurrito said:


> My TCs took 12 weeks.  But so many other products from around the world will be delayed.  A friend asked a dealer when a new Specialized mountain bike would be available - not until summer 2022 due to parts shortages.


Our customers are waiting 6~8 months for our guitars. A big part of it is the mega congestion of global logistics. The pandemic has totally messed up the normal flow of goods from one location to another. US is also importing way more than it is exporting, so there are all these empty containers piling up with nowhere to go. The LA harbor has dozens of container boats floating out in the sea for weeks at a time before being cleared to dock because the container yards are already overflowing. The importers are so frustrated that they are now trying to import at nearly 10x the freight cost but the demand is so great that it takes 2~3 weeks just to book an air shipment. It's absolutely crazy right now.


----------



## ctop

littlej0e said:


> I hit 12 weeks tomorrow. Sigh…
> 
> These things better be so good they get me pregnant…lol


Im on my 15th week of waiting


----------



## Trance_Gott

ctop said:


> Im on my 15th week of waiting


Buy Susvara instead


----------



## littlej0e (May 20, 2021)

Trance_Gott said:


> Buy Susvara instead


BOOOOOO! HERESY!

I’m kidding of course. At this point, I’d actually consider it if I didn’t already have the Raal SR1a.
It’s sad to see some folks are waiting even longer than I have. Feel for you @ctop!


----------



## ken6217

Trance_Gott said:


> Buy Susvara instead


Who wants to settle? That’s like sitting in a bar and you have your eye on this really pretty girl all evening, and then she leaves with some guy. Next to her is a girl (being generous), and you settle for that. Yeah technically, they’re the same, if you close your eyes.


----------



## mammal

ken6217 said:


> Who wants to settle? That’s like sitting in a bar and you have your eye on this really pretty girl all evening, and then she leaves with some guy. Next to her is a girl (being generous), and you settle for that. Yeah technically, they’re the same, if you close your eyes.


If the girl knew what kind of DAC you have, she wouldn't leave with the other guy.


----------



## ken6217

mammal said:


> If the girl knew what kind of DAC you have, she wouldn't leave with the other guy


Girls love a big DAC. 😃


----------



## ctop

Trance_Gott said:


> Buy Susvara instead


 Enjoying already the Susvara which arrived a couple of weeks ago


----------



## Trance_Gott

ctop said:


> Enjoying already the Susvara which arrived a couple of weeks ago


Great! 
Hope the other one arrive soon!


----------



## SuperBurrito

Trance_Gott said:


> Buy Susvara instead


I recently ordered the Susvara, and now I'm waiting for it to ship, lol.


----------



## Trance_Gott

SuperBurrito said:


> I recently ordered the Susvara, and now I'm waiting for it to ship, lol.


I had TC twice and sold them both. I had Phi CC and OG sold all. The mids are meh... The bass is distorted in higher volumes. Now I'm so much happy with the Susvara!


----------



## DJJEZ (May 20, 2021)

ctop said:


> Im on my 15th week of waiting


Ding ding ding we have a winner  
I hope you get yours soon


----------



## Benny-x

Not that I think the 2 are related, but from Abyss’s cadence, they should be releasing a new 1266 any time now. I haven’t heard anything like that, but I’ve got my eyes peeled. And between the Phi CC and the TC, they said they wouldn’t be releasing a new version, so I also wouldn’t believe it if they said nothing was in the works  I’m not a new model hater, though. I hope they release a TC/full 1266 successor soon.


----------



## paradoxper

I doubt we see a TC successor in the next for sure 2 years maybe even five. We'll get the closed this year to fill gaps and then they'll move to IEMs.


----------



## Benny-x

I hope they stay focused on the full-size, over ear headphones and away from IEMs. But there’s a ton of money in IEMs, so business wise it might make sense to get in on that if they’re competitive.


----------



## paradoxper

Benny-x said:


> I hope they stay focused on the full-size, over ear headphones and away from IEMs. But there’s a ton of money in IEMs, so business wise it might make sense to get in on that if they’re competitive.


They make enough money selling supernsnakekaptonkaptivatorconductor cables.


----------



## mammal

Benny-x said:


> I hope they stay focused on the full-size, over ear headphones and away from IEMs. But there’s a ton of money in IEMs, so business wise it might make sense to get in on that if they’re competitive.


Sales from lower priced IEMs can help a company become more profitable and then help fund other high end (open back) headphones. Also, their Youtube channel just took off recently, so I am sure they are getting high demand from folks that have never been to an audio shop or a CanJam, so lower price point and portability of an IEM is a good starting point. I agree with you that I will personally not benefit from them making an IEM (since I won’t be buying it), but just want to say that maybe I will benefit indirectly.


----------



## Abyss Headphones (May 20, 2021)

^^^ That's the plan, closed back then IEM (costs TBD) ^^^

Two of the guys got their Strandberg guitars this week, having a good time with some live music...


----------



## leftside

SuperBurrito said:


> My TCs took 12 weeks.  But so many other products from around the world will be delayed.  A friend asked a dealer when a new Specialized mountain bike would be available - not until summer 2022 due to parts shortages.


Yep - that's what I'm seeing as well - and those Specialized bikes aren't exactly cheap. My local bike stores are hurting. They've never seen so much demand, but they don't have much left to sell.


----------



## Benny-x

mammal said:


> Sales from lower priced IEMs can help a company become more profitable and then help fund other high end (open back) headphones. Also, their Youtube channel just took off recently, so I am sure they are getting high demand from folks that have never been to an audio shop or a CanJam, so lower price point and portability of an IEM is a good starting point. I agree with you that I will personally not benefit from them making an IEM (since I won’t be buying it), but just want to say that maybe I will benefit indirectly.


Looks like you nailed it.

I'm on the same page, the IEM market is way bigger than full-size headphones and the revenue from it could definitely help a company out. I just hope they keep pumping out tier 1 full-size models that I'll be interested in.


----------



## mammal

Benny-x said:


> I'm on the same page, the IEM market is way bigger than full-size headphones and the revenue from it could definitely help a company out. I just hope they keep pumping out tier 1 full-size models that I'll be interested in.


I have a feeling that they will one day introduce something even crazier than AB-1266, quote me on that once that happens


----------



## Gadget67

ctop said:


> Im on my 15th week of waiting


You are barely past your first trimester…


----------



## Orlok

Benny-x said:


> Looks like you nailed it.
> 
> I'm on the same page, the IEM market is way bigger than full-size headphones and the revenue from it could definitely help a company out. I just hope they keep pumping out tier 1 full-size models that I'll be interested in.


I feel I'm now pretty well set with full-size headphones after adding the TC and Diana Phi so my attention will turn to IEMs as I expect to be traveling a lot again in due time. Overall, I'm still very happy with the LCDi4 and Layla CIEM that I've used for 3~4 years but I already envision an Abyss IEM in my future. I'm certain that it will set a new SQ reference point in the IEM realm.


----------



## jlbrach

try the shure 1200...it is the best IEM I have ever heard and I have the lcd-i4 as well which I love...


----------



## MatW

Orlok said:


> I'm certain that it will set a new SQ reference point in the IEM realm.


Based on what? It's a very different type of device, with many companies with a long track record coming up with great stuff. Of course they make arguably the best headphone around, but I'd be amazed if their first IEM can compete with my TOTL IEMs. But who knows... It'll be interesting to follow for sure.


----------



## makan

jlbrach said:


> try the shure 1200...it is the best IEM I have ever heard and I have the lcd-i4 as well which I love...


I second the shure recommendation, and I am really not an IEM guy...just nice to have when I need the portability and sound/noise isolation


----------



## Orlok

MatW said:


> Based on what? It's a very different type of device, with many companies with a long track record coming up with great stuff. Of course they make arguably the best headphone around, but I'd be amazed if their first IEM can compete with my TOTL IEMs. But who knows... It'll be interesting to follow for sure.


Just my hunch based on what they've achieved with the TC and Diana but I guess we'll see. I love the LCDi4 and Layla but if they can get the sound of the TC/Diana in a compact in-ear, well, I know I'll want it.


----------



## Orlok

jlbrach said:


> try the shure 1200...it is the best IEM I have ever heard and I have the lcd-i4 as well which I love...


I see that this and the KSE1500 have the amp device that would need to be in the middle, which isn't ideal for doing outdoor activities like hiking. It's why I love the LCDi4 with the CIPHER cable with the built-in DAC. It's just so good for long nature walks and handles every genre very well. It also doesn't sound like any other Audeze HP I've tried. To me, it sounds like a cross between the HD800S and the LCD-3.

I'd love to try the 1200 and 1500 someday though. Something very portable that sounds great is something I'm always interested in. I owned the SE846 for a while long time ago but decided it just didn't measure up to the Layla and that's why I got the LCDi4. I'm sure the 1200 and 1500 are at a totally different level altogether.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Orlok said:


> I feel I'm now pretty well set with full-size headphones after adding the TC and Diana Phi so my attention will turn to IEMs as I expect to be traveling a lot again in due time. Overall, I'm still very happy with the LCDi4 and Layla CIEM that I've used for 3~4 years but I already envision an Abyss IEM in my future. I'm certain that it will set a new SQ reference point in the IEM realm.


You don’t have the Susvara though. It completes the trifecta


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> You don’t have the Susvara though. It completes the trifecta


Haha. Well, I did say "now" so that's only the very near future.  I have checked off three from my "Endgame Quartet". I shall complete the Trifecta soon but after summer. Let me get to know what I have first!


----------



## DJJEZ

Orlok said:


> Haha. Well, I did say "now" so that's only the very near future.  I have checked off three from my "Endgame Quartet". I shall complete the Trifecta soon but after summer. Let me get to know what I have first!


When is the JPS elite WA33 arriving after this?


----------



## number1sixerfan (May 20, 2021)

Orlok said:


> I feel I'm now pretty well set with full-size headphones after adding the TC and Diana Phi so my attention will turn to IEMs as I expect to be traveling a lot again in due time. Overall, I'm still very happy with the LCDi4 and Layla CIEM that I've used for 3~4 years but I already envision an Abyss IEM in my future. I'm certain that it will set a new SQ reference point in the IEM realm.



If you're going to spend a considerable amount on IEMs, I would for sure look into the custom mold/ear fitting route. I used to be heavy into IEMs, trying quite a few brands/models from Shure, Ety, etc. Got a custom pair of Ultimate Ears and they just trumped everything, never looked into another model again. General top performance aside.. the perfect, custom fit just made all the difference on the end result of the music. Also a world of a difference comfort wise.

I've had the same model for about 12+ years (one driver finally just recently failed), so I'm not up to speed on the latest models and tech. I'm sure fit has probably improved in the general IEMs since then, but if I replace them I'm looking at customs first.. whether UE or another brand.


----------



## Spawn300Z

I went with the UE11 Pros and they are wonderful. Number1sixerfan is correct.

Although he should be a Celtics fan and Joel Embid should play for the Celtics also


----------



## Hoegaardener70

DJJEZ said:


> When is the JPS elite WA33 arriving after this?





Orlok said:


> Haha. Well, I did say "now" so that's only the very near future.  I have checked off three from my "Endgame Quartet". I shall complete the Trifecta soon but after summer. Let me get to know what I have first!



You guys have all waay too much money.


----------



## DJJEZ

Hoegaardener70 said:


> You guys have all waay too much money.


I wish. I can't afford the WA33 JPS elite lol


----------



## number1sixerfan (May 20, 2021)

Spawn300Z said:


> I went with the UE11 Pros and they are wonderful. Number1sixerfan is correct.
> 
> Although he should be a Celtics fan and Joel Embid should play for the Celtics also



Same exact model I went for. I scraped up every penny in college. One of the most satisfying purchases of the entire hobby ever. And lolol, let's not talk basketball. I like to make and keep friends on here 

Side note.. I do wonder what the best custom offerings are now. There's so many products in that space that I'm scared to even revisit lol


----------



## Spawn300Z

So true but I’m happy with my UE11 Pros. I almost went Ruth the UE18 Pros. Still wonder what they are like.

I even got the UE Fits for my phone


----------



## littlej0e (May 20, 2021)

I’ve been looking for a great pair of IEMs for months (I even sent an email to abyss asking if they were going to release IEMs this year…sadly no), but I just couldn’t find anything that was even remotely comfortable. Consequently, I just said screw it and bought a pair of UE Live CSXs. Going the custom route is the most logical answer to my picky-ass search for ultimate comfort.

Thanks to everyone for the UE recommendations. My wallet really friggin’ hates you guys.


----------



## Roasty

Nice beats and bass on this album. Awesome with the TC. Enjoy!


----------



## Orlok (May 20, 2021)

number1sixerfan said:


> If you're going to spend a considerable amount on IEMs, I would for sure look into the custom mold/ear fitting route. I used to be heavy into IEMs, trying quite a few brands/models from Shure, Ety, etc. Got a custom pair of Ultimate Ears and they just trumped everything, never looked into another model again. General top performance aside.. the perfect, custom fit just made all the difference on the end result of the music. Also a world of a difference comfort wise.
> 
> I've had the same model for about 12+ years (one driver finally just recently failed), so I'm not up to speed on the latest models and tech. I'm sure fit has probably improved in the general IEMs since then, but if I replace them I'm looking at customs first.. whether UE or another brand.


My JH Audio Layla IEM is custom-molded to my ears. JH Audio was recommended to me by the bassist in the band I managed around 5 years ago. He got the Roxanne and told me about how amazing it was and said that Layla would be another level up above that so I said, "Okay, then that's what I'll have to get." Went to JH Audio's Artist Relations office in a rehearsal lot in Burbank where all the major acts rehearse before major tours, got the mold done and I had it in about two weeks. I still love it. Obviously, I'll never be able to sell it so it's a keeper for life. Haha. I use it with Chord Mojo for my work commutes (only on freeways) or long road trips.

I then wanted to get another really good universal IEM that would approach the Layla's level and went through a bunch: Etymotic, RHA, IE800, Shure SE846, etc. but none really could approach Layla's performance. So I got tired of rolling IEMs and decided to go for broke with the LCDi4. In many ways, I thought the LCDi4 even exceeded Layla although they have completely different sonic signatures and feel. I was starting to feel a bit dissatisfied with Layla and decided to upgrade the cable to the Silver Dragon and that made a major difference. Now, Layla is just as good as the LCDi4 or even better in some areas. That was a few years ago and that's why I became a fan of the Dragon cables but I've come to see that they are not good for everything. Live and learn! In any case, I'm pretty happy with the LCDi4 and Layla but I'd certainly be interested in what Abyss comes up with.


----------



## Orlok

DJJEZ said:


> When is the JPS elite WA33 arriving after this?


That "EE" portion will be hard to pull off... My second son is going to university next year so I'm in a race against time. Haha.


----------



## Orlok

Hoegaardener70 said:


> You guys have all waay too much money.


It must _seem_ that way but you have to consider that we probably live in a dumpy neighborhood, drive crappy cars, wear really old clothes and never go on vacations.  Seriously, some guys buy boats, go golfing every weekend, have pro sports season tickets, collect vintage cars (or guitars), go on extravagant vacations I can't even imagine, etc. I think it's just where we put our priorities for something that we are passionate about and really enjoy. Fortunately, for me, I just don't want to spend money on anything else. I've even given up buying guitars and related gear which I had been doing for over 30 years!


----------



## rayofsi

using a Norne Vykari on adapters the past few months. moved to a s4 8wire, time to see what this can do after break in


----------



## mammal

Orlok said:


> Haha. Well, I did say "now" so that's only the very near future.  I have checked off three from my "Endgame Quartet". I shall complete the Trifecta soon but after summer. Let me get to know what I have first!


Nothing against Diana (I used to own one), but wouldn't you want some electrostat in the mix, rather than 3 planar and one ribbon? Just for change of taste


----------



## Orlok

mammal said:


> Nothing against Diana (I used to own one), but wouldn't you want some electrostat in the mix, rather than 3 planar and one ribbon? Just for change of taste


Of course, we all know that the term "endgame" has an expiration date. Haha. Well, the electrostat is a whole different world with its own amp requirements. That'd be another major commitment. I can well imagine that I will love STAX and other electrostat HPs. Someday, for sure, but it's like an exotic vacation destination for me at the moment.

The Diana Phi is more about getting a different flavor of the Abyss sound and being able to travel with it freely as well as for use at the office. I'm spending more time there now and having to listen with the Audioengine speakers (however nice they are for the cost) is quite the downgrade from my home setup. Now that things are returning to somewhat normal in the US with most people fully vaccinated, I need to spend more time managing the team at work and just getting out more.

It's a very good thing but it also means I can't spend as much time at home enjoying my setup and that's been weighing on my mind recently. Such a first world problem, isn't it?  Well, YOLO...


----------



## MaggotBrain (May 21, 2021)

mammal said:


> Nothing against Diana (I used to own one), but wouldn't you want some electrostat in the mix, rather than 3 planar and one ribbon? Just for change of taste



Fellow Diana Phi and TC owner here - owning both is strange unless you consider the setting they’re used in.  I view the Diana Phi like a Diet TC - it is not as good as the original (especially if it’s the Mexican cane sugar variety) but you use it for lifestyle reasons - if not totally portable than at least transportable.  I’ve done chores inside and out with Phi on. It is a reasonable facsimile of its more decadent brother.  When you want to burn calories, wear the Phi.  If you want to loosen the belt and feast, it’s TC time.


----------



## MatW (May 21, 2021)

littlej0e said:


> I’ve been looking for a great pair of IEMs for months (I even sent an email to abyss asking if they were going to release IEMs this year…sadly no), but I just couldn’t find anything that was even remotely comfortable. Consequently, I just said screw it and bought a pair of UE Live CSXs. Going the custom route is the most logical answer to my picky-ass search for ultimate comfort.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for the UE recommendations. My wallet really friggin’ hates you guys.


Congrats on your purchase!

I have been exploring the IEM route for the last year or so, and climbed the ladder to TOTL territory there as well. (The most expensive one costs as much as a Susvara...). I have narrow ear canals and fit was an issue at the beginning. I have one custom IEM, but I actually don't find it that comfortable, upon insertion. It is fine after a few minutes. But I have to say, since I found the right eartips (this was a long and costly search, I landed on the Azla Xelastec), I now prefer universal IEMs. I find them more comfortable (less deep in your ear) and buying and selling is easy. Custom is a commitment for life, or resale at very low value. All in all I am very happy with my IEMs. They offer a different but equally rewarding listening experience vs. over-ear headphones, IMO.


----------



## slumberman (May 21, 2021)

MatW said:


> Congrats on your purchase!
> 
> I have been exploring the IEM route for the last year or so, and climbed the ladder to TOTL territory there as well. (The most expensive one costs as much as a Susvara...). I have narrow ear canals and fit was an issue at the beginning. I have one custom IEM, but I actually don't find it that comfortable, upon insertion. It is fine after a few minutes. But I have to say, since I found the right eartips (this was a long and costly search, I landed on the Azla Xelastec), I now prefer universal IEMs. I find them more comfortable (less deep in your ear) and buying and selling is easy. Custom is a commitment for life, or resale at very low value. All in all I am very happy with my IEMs. They offer a different but equally rewarding listening experience vs. over-ear headphones, IMO.


Let me add that customs are NOT for life. As a musician, I can assure you they don't last more than 4 years, if you're looking for the perfect fit while moving/playing....static/passive listening they  might last a bit longer...
I have 4 pairs of JH audios to prove it


----------



## MatW (May 21, 2021)

slumberman said:


> Let me add that customs are NOT for life. As a musician, I can assure you they don't last more than 4 years, if you're looking for the perfect fit while moving/playing....static/passive listening they  might last a bit longer...
> I have 4 pairs of JH audios to prove it


Good point...  

I meant that customs are a commitment, not that easy to sell... So yeah, I guess you need to factor in the extra expense and hassle of a refit as well. You did not opt to reshell them?


----------



## slumberman

MatW said:


> Good point...
> 
> I meant that customs are a commitment, not that easy to sell... So yeah, I guess you need to factor in the extra expense and hassle of a refit as well. You did not opt to reshell them?


They were paid by the company/entity I work for… usually we also upgrade model by then as there’s always a newer thing out … the old ones can end up as backups, if they don’t sound too different…. If they do it’s a problem since the in ear mix/monitoring can be noticeably different and you don’t want that change to happen in the middle of a show


----------



## mammal

Orlok said:


> Haha. Well, the electrostat is a whole different world with its own amp requirements. That'd be another major commitment. I can well imagine that I will love STAX and other electrostat HPs.


There are some amplifiers that can power both traditional and electrostats, but they cost money and since I have never heard them, hard to say if they excel in both, or are just for "I want one amp that does a decent job on both"


----------



## MatW

mammal said:


> There are some amplifiers that can power both traditional and electrostats, but they cost money and since I have never heard them, hard to say if they excel in both, or are just for "I want one amp that does a decent job on both"


Audiovalve Solaris is one such amp. There is one for sale in the classifieds.
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/audiovalve-solaris.3177/


----------



## Abyss Headphones

We haven't done a review of gear in a while, XIAUDIO Formula S headphone amp today...


----------



## paradoxper

MatW said:


> Audiovalve Solaris is one such amp. There is one for sale in the classifieds.
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/audiovalve-solaris.3177/


Not good. 

There is a reason AIO are limited. 

They're incredibly difficult to do right. Better not to do at all.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

paradoxper said:


> Not good.
> 
> There is a reason AIO are limited.
> 
> They're incredibly difficult to do right. Better not to do at all.


What makes you think that the Solaris is not good? it received universal praise, you are actually the first one not to like it (to my knowledge).


----------



## paradoxper

Hoegaardener70 said:


> What makes you think that the Solaris is not good? it received universal praise, you are actually the first one not to like it (to my knowledge).


The real crutch and point was it can't drive electrostats very well. Very soft, flabbed bass, hard treble lacking extension.

Driving planars is an easier game, dynamic even more so, electrostats, not so much.

This, in part, why your FOTM of yesteryear dynamic amplifier designers flailed quite hard with their electrostat designs.


----------



## Frankie D

Orlok said:


> I see that this and the KSE1500 have the amp device that would need to be in the middle, which isn't ideal for doing outdoor activities like hiking. It's why I love the LCDi4 with the CIPHER cable with the built-in DAC. It's just so good for long nature walks and handles every genre very well. It also doesn't sound like any other Audeze HP I've tried. To me, it sounds like a cross between the HD800S and the LCD-3.
> 
> I'd love to try the 1200 and 1500 someday though. Something very portable that sounds great is something I'm always interested in. I owned the SE846 for a while long time ago but decided it just didn't measure up to the Layla and that's why I got the LCDi4. I'm sure the 1200 and 1500 are at a totally different level altogether.


If you want an IEM and are willing to pay its high price, the best at the moment is the Oriolus Traillii in my opinion.  Many are now falling in love with it.  MusicTeck has them. But, they cost allot.  $6K list though they were providing $1000 off of list.


----------



## Gadget67

Orlok said:


> It must _seem_ that way but you have to consider that we probably live in a dumpy neighborhood, drive crappy cars, wear really old clothes and never go on vacations.  Seriously, some guys buy boats, go golfing every weekend, have pro sports season tickets, collect vintage cars (or guitars), go on extravagant vacations I can't even imagine, etc. I think it's just where we put our priorities for something that we are passionate about and really enjoy. Fortunately, for me, I just don't want to spend money on anything else. I've even given up buying guitars and related gear which I had been doing for over 30 years!


This really resonates with me.  I tend to research everything I buy very carefully and that actually enters into the appeal.  A large part of it is the anticipation and the enjoyment that comes from finally realizing a goal I’ve worked hard to obtain, material or otherwise.  If I could buy whatever I wanted indiscriminately it would reduce the enjoyment tremendously.  A great dopamine response is my drug of choice!


----------



## ken6217

Gadget67 said:


> You are barely past your first trimester…



Don’t abort and buy something else


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

paradoxper said:


> The real crutch and point was it can't drive electrostats very well. Very soft, flabbed bass, hard treble lacking extension.
> 
> Driving planars is an easier game, dynamic even more so, electrostats, not so much.
> 
> This, in part, why your FOTM of yesteryear dynamic amplifier designers flailed quite hard with their electrostat designs.


I don't agree. I'm just evaluating multiple estat amps. Regarding Lambdas the Solaris is perfectly fine. Even with sr-009 it is as good as FM 727II or S9. I wouldn't drive sr-007 with the Solaris though. In that specific case you're right 100%. On the other hand I wouldn't drive sr-007 with most amps out there. Anyway KGSSHV Carbon coming up next.


----------



## MatW

Abyss Headphones said:


> We haven't done a review of gear in a while, XIAUDIO Formula S headphone amp today...


Great amp, like it a lot. It doesn't work well with everything though, e,g. the Empyrean. I hear a background noise that shouldn't be there (hard to describe, not hiss but similar), when using it with the Empyrean, also in low gain. But it is great for the 1266, Susvara and LCD-4.


----------



## paradoxper

DuncanDirkDick said:


> I don't agree. I'm just evaluating multiple estat amps. Regarding Lambdas the Solaris is perfectly fine. Even with sr-009 it is as good as FM 727II or S9. I wouldn't drive sr-007 with the Solaris though. In that specific case you're right 100%. On the other hand I wouldn't drive sr-007 with most amps out there. Anyway KGSSHV Carbon coming up next.


I'm not such a fan of the Lambda series so won't speak to how well they perform even out of a Carbon/T2/Megatron, etc.

If your equivalent reference is a 727, I think you may want to contextualize that to a $5k amplifier full of mediocrity.

In any case, the Solaris can't scale up to a DIY T2 which is always what I'll reference, pitting the best up to the next; it is a middling, flexible convenient package.

You are still far better off pursuing the best electrostatic amp you can and pursuing the best dynamic amplifier you can, separately.


----------



## mammal

So dCS Bartók is here. I have it as a loan for 2 weeks, so will follow up with a proper review / comparison to Hugo TT 2. But here are my first impressions for those who are interested. As some of you (who have been following my journey) know, I am not after "the best system out there" as that would require me to experiment much more than I realistically can, and also, I do not believe one "best" exists, so would end up having 3-4 headphones, 2-3 amps and 1-2 dacs, which for space and financial reasons I wish not to. For that reason, I have decided (a long time ago) to simply get the best "all in one" system I can, while adhering to 10k budget. Any money spent on top of that budget has to be approved by my wife (aka, she needs to hear a difference too, and she is not into head-fi).

So far the best I got was Chord Hugo TT 2, which is powerful enough for my Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC (there is no question about XLR outs, some discussion about front SE power still remains). Going higher than HTT2 means either adding M Scaler, or upgrading to Dave and pairing it with an amplifier of the same caliber. I have actually borrowed HMS a couple of weeks ago, and was not satisfied with the price tag for how it affected the sound. I do not want to go into detail here in this post, if you are interested in my reasoning, read my first impressions and one week review. But long story short - it changed the sound enough to notice the difference, but it was not always desirable for my main listening genre - EDM.

So when I got a chance to borrow dCS Bartók, I got very interested. This would bring my budget from 10k to 20k, which is a lot for me (3 weeks of holidays in Japan cost me 15k so I am trading off a very nice vacation here). I was also worried about Bartók's headphone output, as most people know dCS for their DACs, not amplifiers (do they even make any?). After watching a review from Abyss guys, it made me feel that perhaps Bartók's power output is good enough. I know that most people who own Bartók are also pairing it with something like Woo Audio WA33 or Riviera AIC-10, but as I mentioned above, I am "all in one" type of guy. I actually listened to Sennheiser HE-1 at CanJam 2016 and liked it as it was designed as one system - but then, it costs 60k (like my car).

Happy to report that dCS Bartók's headphone amplifier section is equally powerful in terms of sonic fidelity and dynamics, I am missing absolutely nothing over HTT2's XLR outputs (that put out 6W). Actually, dCS guys are downplaying Bartók's specs, it actually outputs over 2W into AB-1266's 50 Ohm resistance, which is very similar to what XI Audio Formula S as well as HTT2 SE's provide. So even though other owners like to pair a good DAC with a good AMP, I wanted to have all in one system that can drive my favourite headphones AB-1266.

Another feature I like is Bartók's streaming capability - it is a Roon endpoints (works flawlessly), as well as available for Airplay - so I can stream movies and Youtube videos with an ease. It is connected to my network over RJ45 ethernet cable, so no worries with Wi-Fi, it just works. Now, what most people do not care about is balance control, not many DACs offer it, some AMPs do. Well, Bartók solves for my hearing loss (around -3dB on my left ear), and I can nicely compensate for that in Bartók's menu, so all of music/videos are played nicely with centre image in my head. As far as crossfeed goes, I very much prefers Bartók's Expanse compared to Chord's crossfeed, is sounds more natural to me. With Chord, I had it always turned off, with Bartók, I am experimenting from song to song and I like that. Now how about upsampling you may ask? My issue with Chord's M Scaler was that it did not work for every type of music, some songs I like to sound aggressive or sharp, as I listen to mainly EDM, I did not benefit from HMS as much as Jazz / Classical folks do. Bartók does upsampling up to 384 kHz automatically, you have a couple of filters to choose from and offers conversion to DSD as well. I haven't given individual filters enough hours, so not going to comment on that, but I can already say that for my EDM listening, I am liking Bartók's upsampling more, I still get aggressive and sharp song representation, while other songs do sound equally spacious and grand, rich and full, as they did with HMS.

Obviously it is too early to say if I am going to purchase one for myself, I have two weeks to decide. What I can tell you is this. When I first listened to AB-1266, I just knew this is my headphone, better than anything I have listened to - LCD4, 009, Utopia, HE1000 (haven't tried Susvara nor Raal), so I bought it immediately and no regrets. With HTT2, I always felt that it is an incredible value, but it never covered me 100%, missing streamer / channel balance / crossfeed I did not like and upsampling that felt too expensive, I felt that there must be something closer to my heart. I am not sure if dCS Bartók is that thing, as I have never listened to Dave (well I did but it was on loud CanJam floor), and I have no idea how WA33 or any other TOTL amp sounds, so I am sure I could make it work for my listening preferences. Now dCS Bartók is a different story, it really makes me feel like going from 10k to 20k is a no brainer and it satisfies all of my "convenience" requirement (streamer, upsampler, dac and amp), all in one.

Take this post with a grain of salt, I just got it a couple of hours ago, so of course I am excited about my new toy. I plan to follow up with a proper review, for those who are also after "all in one" solution, where HTT2 is the natural and cost effective option. If you have any questions and would like me to experiment with something particular, you have two weeks to ask. After that, I will need some time to decide if I miss it enough to spend this level of cash on it. The ultimate honesty will be the moment I spent my own money on the product, so until then, read everything I write with a bit of caution  Thank you for reading up till here.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

paradoxper said:


> If your equivalent reference is a 727, I think you may want to contextualize that to a $5k amplifier full of mediocrity.
> 
> In any case, the Solaris can't scale up to a DIY T2 which is always what I'll reference, pitting the best up to the next; it is a middling, flexible convenient package.
> 
> You are still far better off pursuing the best electrostatic amp you can and pursuing the best dynamic amplifier you can, separately.



Oh the pic didn't upload, in that case id would've been clear that the 727 wasn't my reference point. Of course a diy T2 performs better, that's no surprise. In the end it is a headphone amp with transformers to accompany most Stax cans, not the other way around.


----------



## paradoxper

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Oh the pic didn't upload, in that case id would've been clear that the 727 wasn't my reference point. Of course a diy T2 performs better, that's no surprise. In the end it is a headphone amp with transformers to accompany most Stax cans, not the other way around.


Gimped both ways, naturally.

We could discuss exactly how well the Solaris drives, say, planars compared to relative competitors.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

paradoxper said:


> We could discuss exactly how well the Solaris drives, say, planars compared to relative competitors.


Absolutely. ABing is way easier as well


----------



## mammal

So I let my wife listen to Bartók with AB-1266, and something interesting happened. I expected she would tell me (again) that she hears no difference whatsoever. She carefully selected a couple of songs on Bartók and then she asked me to play the same on HTT2. Then she said (I promise I am not exaggerating) that the difference is a night and day to hear ears. She continued by saying that she has never understood my hobby, until now. So much so, that she asked me when is the next CanJam and she wants a weekend in London as her birthday present (happens to be the same weekend). I did not expect this... Clear testament to how AB-1266 scales with your gear.


----------



## MatW

mammal said:


> So dCS Bartók is here. I have it as a loan for 2 weeks, so will follow up with a proper review / comparison to Hugo TT 2. But here are my first impressions for those who are interested. As some of you (who have been following my journey) know, I am not after "the best system out there" as that would require me to experiment much more than I realistically can, and also, I do not believe one "best" exists, so would end up having 3-4 headphones, 2-3 amps and 1-2 dacs, which for space and financial reasons I wish not to. For that reason, I have decided (a long time ago) to simply get the best "all in one" system I can, while adhering to 10k budget. Any money spent on top of that budget has to be approved by my wife (aka, she needs to hear a difference too, and she is not into head-fi).
> 
> So far the best I got was Chord Hugo TT 2, which is powerful enough for my Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC (there is no question about XLR outs, some discussion about front SE power still remains). Going higher than HTT2 means either adding M Scaler, or upgrading to Dave and pairing it with an amplifier of the same caliber. I have actually borrowed HMS a couple of weeks ago, and was not satisfied with the price tag for how it affected the sound. I do not want to go into detail here in this post, if you are interested in my reasoning, read my first impressions and one week review. But long story short - it changed the sound enough to notice the difference, but it was not always desirable for my main listening genre - EDM.
> 
> ...


You have two weeks to decide but you've already updated your signature... 😉... So I guess your decision has been made?

I find the all in one idea very appealing. But it would have to be able to drive the Susvara properly, and I wonder if that might be a bridge too far. Plus I guess these would be hard to find used.


----------



## mammal

MatW said:


> You have two weeks to decide *but you've already updated your signature*... 😉... So I guess your decision has been made?


Yep, the moment she gave me a green light, I contacted the dealer to place an order  



MatW said:


> I find the all in one idea very appealing.


The feature set is just amazing.



MatW said:


> But it would have to be able to drive the Susvara properly, and I wonder if that might be a bridge too far.


Yeah, I know what you mean. I was very worried about this, but it drives AB-1266 witch such authority I did not expect.


----------



## Frankie D

mammal said:


> So I let my wife listen to Bartók with AB-1266, and something interesting happened. I expected she would tell me (again) that she hears no difference whatsoever. She carefully selected a couple of songs on Bartók and then she asked me to play the same on HTT2. Then she said (I promise I am not exaggerating) that the difference is a night and day to hear ears. She continued by saying that she has never understood my hobby, until now. So much so, that she asked me when is the next CanJam and she wants a weekend in London as her birthday present (happens to be the same weekend). I did not expect this... Clear testament to how AB-1266 scales with your gear.


I have been interested in this pairing for awhile.  It is expensive though. Please keep us posted.  Tks.


----------



## MatW (May 22, 2021)

.


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> So I let my wife listen to Bartók with AB-1266, and something interesting happened. I expected she would tell me (again) that she hears no difference whatsoever. She carefully selected a couple of songs on Bartók and then she asked me to play the same on HTT2. Then she said (I promise I am not exaggerating) that the difference is a night and day to hear ears. She continued by saying that she has never understood my hobby, until now. So much so, that she asked me when is the next CanJam and she wants a weekend in London as her birthday present (happens to be the same weekend). I did not expect this... Clear testament to how AB-1266 scales with your gear.


Good for you!

My wife is also my check on “improvements”.  She is most certainly NOT an audiophile and has mildly compromised hearing.  If I tell you that she hears a difference, you can immediately purchase whatever it is with complete confidence!


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (May 22, 2021)

Gadget67 said:


> Good for you!
> 
> My wife is also my check on “improvements”.  She is most certainly NOT an audiophile and has mildly compromised hearing.  If I tell you that she hears a difference, you can immediately purchase whatever it is with complete confidence!


Did she ever authorize any cable purchase? This is one area I find where wife listening needs to be avoided 😝


----------



## mammal

Frankie D said:


> I have been interested in this pairing for awhile. It is expensive though. Please keep us posted. Tks.


I know what you mean, it is very expensive to have one piece of gear like this. I always felt more comfortable to have many smaller pieces, that together could cost the same, but it felt that: 1) I either selected a system that works together nicely; or 2) individual pieces do better job at their task that one all in one. Bartók may not be the best DAC out there (can't compare to more expensive DACs, since those would be out of my budget), nor Bartók is considered a TOTL amplifier (the likes of Woo Audio or Riviera), but what I can say with confidence (and what I focus on the most) is that it is clearly (to my and my wife's ears) the best all-in-one. Improving upon that would require me to find another all-in-one, as I would really prefer keeping just one dac/amp.


----------



## simorag

mammal said:


> So I let my wife listen to Bartók with AB-1266, and something interesting happened. I expected she would tell me (again) that she hears no difference whatsoever. She carefully selected a couple of songs on Bartók and then she asked me to play the same on HTT2. Then she said (I promise I am not exaggerating) that the difference is a night and day to hear ears. She continued by saying that she has never understood my hobby, until now. So much so, that she asked me when is the next CanJam and she wants a weekend in London as her birthday present (happens to be the same weekend). I did not expect this... Clear testament to how AB-1266 scales with your gear.



Can you please tell us which are those two songs? Perhaps by chance you found the magic formula to our marital happiness


----------



## mammal

simorag said:


> Can you please tell us which are those two songs? Perhaps by chance you found the magic formula to our marital happiness


Haha, for modern she selected "Save Your Tears" by Weeknd, and for classical she selected "The Four Seasons, Summer: Concerto No.2 in G Minor: II. Adagio" by Vivaldi; and "Concerto for cello & orchestra No.1 in A minor, Op. 33: Allegro non troppo" by Tchaikovsky. For fun we then played "Princes of the Universe" by Queen and "The Man" by Killers.


----------



## strolee

Congrats my friend!!! I have had the Woo Audio 33 Elite and the Dave/M Scaler combo (all incredible in their own right), paired with my AB-1266 TC, and I can say with confidence that overall I am enjoying the Bartok/TC combo the most. Happy listening!!


----------



## mammal

strolee said:


> Congrats my friend!!! I have had the Woo Audio 33 Elite and the Dave/M Scaler combo (all incredible in their own right), paired with my AB-1266 TC, and I can say with confidence that overall I am enjoying the Bartok/TC combo the most. Happy listening!!


Thank you! Also driving your TC with Bartók directly, without any other amp?


----------



## paradoxper

Abyss TC For Sale or Rognir if curious.

Hey @Joe Skubinski HTFU with Abyss Closed.

Thank you.


----------



## mammal

paradoxper said:


> Abyss TC For Sale or Rognir if curious.


So keeping just SR1a then?


----------



## paradoxper

mammal said:


> So keeping just SR1a then?


Of the two, whichever sells quickly, the remainder is just my consolation prize.


----------



## Trance_Gott (May 22, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> Of the two, whichever sells quickly, the remainder is just my consolation prize.


Buy buy buy Susvara. Hehe it's a lot better then the TC with his meh mids hahaha.
I knew that the day come you sell it. I had four time Abyss and this is not a keeper. You first think wow great sound but then you find and find so much flaws. 6000 usd no!


----------



## paradoxper

Trance_Gott said:


> Buy buy buy Susvara. Hehe it's a lot better then the TC with his meh mids hahaha


I think Susvara are for the cheap boys whom won't go DIY T2, that's just me though.


----------



## Trance_Gott (May 22, 2021)

SR009 cannot reach the Susvara driven by something like the Niimbus US4. When you get Moore Bass from T2 you never can correct the unevenness in the 1Khz range.
But otherwise SR009 is great. The bass a bit light even from Carbon but it's okay for me.
Susvaras tonality is spot on I don't know an other headphone which has better tonality
Okay maybe HE1 but this don't sound out of the world.


----------



## paradoxper

Trance_Gott said:


> SR009 cannot reach the Susvara driven by something like the Niimbus US4. When you get Moore Bass from T2 you never can correct the unevenness in the 1Khz range.


You crap, I crap. I crap bigger. Sit down.

I don't like Susvara. No amp will change that and believe me, I'm using more capable amps than the Niimbus. Enjoy you.


----------



## Trance_Gott

You are crazy. T2 will change 009 but no amp will change Susvara. 
So we two say only crap. Yes lets make a end it's better. 
Enjoy your loudspeakers!


----------



## paradoxper

Trance_Gott said:


> You are crazy. T2 will change 009 but no amp will change Susvara.
> So we two say only crap. Yes lets make a end it's better.
> Enjoy your loudspeakers!


Reading comprehension would do you some good, buddy.

I said I don't like the Susvara, I proceeded that with no amp will change that. You ****ing dolt.


----------



## Orlok

mammal said:


> I know what you mean, it is very expensive to have one piece of gear like this. I always felt more comfortable to have many smaller pieces, that together could cost the same, but it felt that: 1) I either selected a system that works together nicely; or 2) individual pieces do better job at their task that one all in one. Bartók may not be the best DAC out there (can't compare to more expensive DACs, since those would be out of my budget), nor Bartók is considered a TOTL amplifier (the likes of Woo Audio or Riviera), but what I can say with confidence (and what I focus on the most) is that it is clearly (to my and my wife's ears) the best all-in-one. Improving upon that would require me to find another all-in-one, as I would really prefer keeping just one dac/amp.


Congrats on the Bartók! Man, now that's a splurge. Haha. But it makes sense for what you are going for - sound wise and setup wise. We all have our individual paths with our individual requirements. Tons of great stuff out there at various price points. The challenge and the reward are finding what works best for your individual needs and wants. What makes it even more interesting and fun in all of this is that the journey will take you on some unexpected routes and you end up experiencing things that you hadn't planned on.


----------



## Orlok

@Trance_Gott @paradoxper Thanks for the little side entertainment here!


----------



## paradoxper

Orlok said:


> @Trance_Gott @paradoxper Thanks for the little side entertainment here!


Don't laugh. @Trance_Gott and I are serious!


----------



## Orlok

paradoxper said:


> Don't laugh. @Trance_Gott and I are serious!


Oh, I know you are!


----------



## Ciggavelli

Pretty good stoner rock, and sounds great on the TCs 


24/96 on Qobuz


----------



## Trance_Gott

paradoxper said:


> Don't laugh. @Trance_Gott and I are serious!


OK proceed with the lcd5 oh sorry wrong thread. Uff I don't say anything hehe. And in autumn there is coming a new Flagship beating all others. Remind on my words.


----------



## ken6217

mammal said:


> So dCS Bartók is here. I have it as a loan for 2 weeks, so will follow up with a proper review / comparison to Hugo TT 2. But here are my first impressions for those who are interested. As some of you (who have been following my journey) know, I am not after "the best system out there" as that would require me to experiment much more than I realistically can, and also, I do not believe one "best" exists, so would end up having 3-4 headphones, 2-3 amps and 1-2 dacs, which for space and financial reasons I wish not to. For that reason, I have decided (a long time ago) to simply get the best "all in one" system I can, while adhering to 10k budget. Any money spent on top of that budget has to be approved by my wife (aka, she needs to hear a difference too, and she is not into head-fi).
> 
> So far the best I got was Chord Hugo TT 2, which is powerful enough for my Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC (there is no question about XLR outs, some discussion about front SE power still remains). Going higher than HTT2 means either adding M Scaler, or upgrading to Dave and pairing it with an amplifier of the same caliber. I have actually borrowed HMS a couple of weeks ago, and was not satisfied with the price tag for how it affected the sound. I do not want to go into detail here in this post, if you are interested in my reasoning, read my first impressions and one week review. But long story short - it changed the sound enough to notice the difference, but it was not always desirable for my main listening genre - EDM.
> 
> ...


You should also try streaming USB into the Bartok and compare. Sone of the reviews I saw said it sounded better than just ethernet directly into the Bartok.


----------



## strolee

strolee said:


> Congrats my friend!!! I have had the Woo Audio 33 Elite and the Dave/M Scaler combo (all incredible in their own right), paired with my AB-1266 TC, and I can say with confidence that overall I am enjoying the Bartok/TC combo the most. Happy listening!!


Yes, using direct with no amp.


----------



## mammal

ken6217 said:


> You should also try streaming USB into the Bartok and compare. Sone of the reviews I saw said it sounded better than just ethernet directly into the Bartok.


I have Pi2AES coming in in a week or so, so I can definitely do that just for comparison and fullness of a review.


----------



## paradoxper

Trance_Gott said:


> OK proceed with the lcd5 oh sorry wrong thread. Uff I don't say anything hehe. And in autumn there is coming a new Flagship beating all others. Remind on my words.


We'll await the changing of seasons, then.


----------



## Orlok

Ciggavelli said:


> Pretty good stoner rock, and sounds great on the TCs
> 
> 
> 24/96 on Qobuz


Yeah, this sounds _massive_. Been enjoying Gojira's latest release recently.


----------



## Tarttett

Orlok said:


> Of course, we all know that the term "endgame" has an expiration date. Haha. Well, the electrostat is a whole different world with its own amp requirements. That'd be another major commitment. I can well imagine that I will love STAX and other electrostat HPs. Someday, for sure, but it's like an exotic vacation destination for me at the moment.
> 
> The Diana Phi is more about getting a different flavor of the Abyss sound and being able to travel with it freely as well as for use at the office. I'm spending more time there now and having to listen with the Audioengine speakers (however nice they are for the cost) is quite the downgrade from my home setup. Now that things are returning to somewhat normal in the US with most people fully vaccinated, I need to spend more time managing the team at work and just getting out more.
> 
> It's a very good thing but it also means I can't spend as much time at home enjoying my setup and that's been weighing on my mind recently. Such a first world problem, isn't it?  Well, YOLO...


Why had you decided to purchase those Diana Phis, instead of decided to wait for Abyss to produce their closed headphones?


----------



## Orlok (May 22, 2021)

Tarttett said:


> Why had you decided to purchase those Diana Phis, instead of decided to wait for Abyss to produce their closed headphones?


Well, I can always get the closed too.  But, seriously, I will be traveling a lot again very soon and I wanted a compact HP with the Abyss sound to take on long business trips to Asia/Europe as well as around the US. The Diana Phi will also be good for me to use at work and I have my own spacious office so I don't have to worry about bothering someone else with an open-back.

I've tried a few closed backs from different brands in the past and didn't like the characteristics as I do prefer a more open and airy sound. I'm never really in a situation where I need to have a closed back to not disturb someone around me so a closed back HP isn't something I really considered. Besides the sound isolation, does a closed back have any certain SQ advantages over the open back? It seems what closed back makers do is try get the open back sound? I don't know because I haven't tried any TOTL closed backs.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

The closed backs are at least 6 months away and do we know about the form factor?


----------



## mammal

DuncanDirkDick said:


> The closed backs are at least 6 months away and do we know about the form factor?


Like diana


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

That could be nice.


----------



## MaggotBrain (May 22, 2021)

Just got my Bartok this past week and it’s been something special.  

I was coming from a place where my headphone listening shifted more from one room to another - I have a Innuos Zenith SE streamer - Innuos Phoenix USB reclocker - m scaler - Dave DAC - audio gd HE9 amp  (also also ATC SCM 100 ASL powered speakers). But as my habits of use changed (less morning use so no headphones needed), I moved most of my headphones to a study so at least they would get some love. 
I would use the portable amps I had at first (like woo WA11) but this meant the TC wouldn’t be used much.  And that wasn’t right so I remedied by upgrading (a familiar prescription for many of us). Started with a audio gd NFB for like $300 off eBay which was fine but the damn Dave setup spoiled me.  And while I am an monogamist in my marriage to Mrs. MaggotBrain, I am a wackadoo cult leader type polyamorous type when it comes to my gear.  So I tried out some younger sexier things - Cary DMS 500 paired to a audio gd master 9 - and it was very very good but greatness beckoned.  Thought about upgrading the amp - but then I got experimental just to tease out the DAC in my Cary unit. Attached it via XLR to Kii Three active speakers - knowing the Kiis had an outstanding built in DAC I bypassed to compare and saw that I had to make like a spawning salmon and go upstream.  I snatched the Bartok along with an upgraded power cable and Sonora Optical to clean up the Ethernet signal so everything fed to the Bartok would be inspected and disinfected like a food taster for Roman emperor.  

Once you set it to high gain, the Bartok drives the TC with ease.  The noise floor is non existent - I even plugged in my MMR Thummim IEMs and there was no background noise at all at high gain no less.   Bass was tight and punchy.  Mids a bit more lush than the m scaler Dave.  Treble is just bananas with the TC. If you want solid state crispness like a upstate New York autumn apple, you got it with the Bartok.  A track like Lionel Richie’s All Night Long with all the slammin percussion just blows your mind.  If an album is a bit older and may be mastered on the quiet side - like Simon & Garfunkel’s the Boxer - you may have to dial it up a bit, but really, who CRANKS Simon & Garfunkel?!? For the sake of completeness I tried feeding the Bartok to the Master 9 and the lack of resolution of my old amp became apparent and it quickly was escorted back to the closet - It did raise the volume ceiling a bit but the Bartok gives you all the volume you’re gonna need with the TC.  I was looking for the perfect desktop all in one and the Bartok surpassed all me expectations.  It may just may be even better for headphones at least than the speaker setup I have. The synergy at least is amazing - like Cinderella’s foot gliding into her slipper.  The sound signature is a bit thicker than the Dave, which is great for the TC but not as great for something like the ZMF Verite Closed. It was like a portly Euro in a Speedo with the inadequacies being too magnified.  My only complaint is that the past few days I’ve slept a little less as I’ve spent too much time with my new gear.  I’ve had new gear before many many times but few have cut into my sleep.  You ask yourself will I feel better in the morning if I sleep more or if I listen to the Bartok more and now I know how junkies are junkies because this thing is addicting! 

I imagine a lot of folks have their gear and want to upgrade piecemeal because that’s the rational way of doing things.  So if you have your good not great DAC or your good but not great amp and think you can fix them if you just try harder to give them a better match, think of cutting bait and look into the Bartok if you want to dive headfirst into the deep endgame.


----------



## DJJEZ (May 22, 2021)

The bartok sounds amazing but its completely out of reach for me at £14,500/$20,500   congrats to you guys though. its a serious bit of gear!


----------



## Roasty

DJJEZ said:


> The bartok sounds amazing but its completely out of reach for me at £14,500/$20,500   congrats to you guys though. its a serious bit of gear!



Yea it is tough to shell out for that chunk all in one go.. It isn't doing any favours that it is comparably less painful to fork out for a few smaller components of lesser individual cost, which eventually add up to the Bartok price anyways! Looking at the stuff I've got in my chain (and the stuff I've bought to try and then sold for a loss) I think I could have gotten a Bartok or Rossini by now! 

But then again.. A lot of fun is in the trial and error. Fun in a sadistic masochistic type of way.


----------



## Ciggavelli

The bass on this album is ridiculous


----------



## Gadget67

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Did she ever authorize any cable purchase? This is one area I find where wife listening needs to be avoided 😝


No!


----------



## Orlok

Gadget67 said:


> No!


Cables are very easy to sneak in. HPs and amps - not so much.  

I often play music for my wife through my setup but she never comments on the sound - just the music. She's a classical piano and composition major so, believe me, she knows music better than I do in many respects but, normally, she's fine listening through AirPods or with a Bose BT speaker around the house. Kind of weird but I've noticed that with a lot of musicians - including very high level pro musicians. They don't have audiophile gear and have no interest in it whatsoever. When I tell them about what I got, they say "Cool!" but show very little interest in it. When they create their music and recordings, they are much more interested in how it sounds through the AirPods or computer speakers.


----------



## SuperBurrito

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Did she ever authorize any cable purchase? This is one area I find where wife listening needs to be avoided 😝


Some years ago I brought home a few loaner power cables from my dealer, despite being a total skeptic.  I did a blind A/B/C test with my wife. who is not an audiophile at all, and after less than 1 minute listening to each cable, could easily tell the differences and said that the most expensive one (without her knowing which cable) was the best.  She said something like "the vocals sound like they're coming out more easily and relaxed."


----------



## SuperBurrito

Orlok said:


> Kind of weird but I've noticed that with a lot of musicians - including very high level pro musicians. They don't have audiophile gear and have no interest in it whatsoever. When I tell them about what I got, they say "Cool!" but show very little interest in it. When they create their music and recordings, they are much more interested in how it sounds through the AirPods or computer speakers.


So true.  A friend of mine is a professional musician, spending 100% of his working time creating music scores for tv shows.  He has hundreds of musical instruments and pieces of equipment in his studio, but his home audio equipment for casual music listening is horrible!


----------



## Orlok

SuperBurrito said:


> So true.  A friend of mine is a professional musician, spending 100% of his working time creating music scores for tv shows.  He has hundreds of musical instruments and pieces of equipment in his studio, but his home audio equipment for casual music listening is horrible!


To them, a $500 HP is a lot. Haha. But, obviously, they'll spend tens of thousands on tube mic preamps, A/D converters, and other high-end recording outboard gear like compressors, mixers, EQs, etc. They just refuse to allocate money to listening gear. These days, they also have to spend a lot of money on video gear for YT content creation, etc. 

Casual listening is pretty low on their list of priorities. They are much more interested in hearing how the masses will listen to their creations and productions. They would even hear some audiophile gear somewhere and just shrug and not show the slightest amount of interest of getting something like that for themselves. They just look at that and think: "That's just something a very tiny percentage of people do."


----------



## DJJEZ

Orlok said:


> Well, I can always get the closed too.  But, seriously, I will be traveling a lot again very soon and I wanted a compact HP with the Abyss sound to take on long business trips to Asia/Europe as well as around the US. The Diana Phi will also be good for me to use at work and I have my own spacious office so I don't have to worry about bothering someone else with an open-back.
> 
> I've tried a few closed backs from different brands in the past and didn't like the characteristics as I do prefer a more open and airy sound. I'm never really in a situation where I need to have a closed back to not disturb someone around me so a closed back HP isn't something I really considered. Besides the sound isolation, does a closed back have any certain SQ advantages over the open back? It seems what closed back makers do is try get the open back sound? I don't know because I haven't tried any TOTL closed backs.


There are no SQ advantages over open back. Just better if you can't have sound leak like on a plane or train etc


----------



## Orlok

DJJEZ said:


> There are no SQ advantages over open back. Just better if you can't have sound leak like on a plane or train etc


That's what I figured although I can imagine that the closed will have more focused punch and that kind of character. For use on planes or trains, etc. I'd need the best noise canceling possible. In fact, when I'm on the trans-Pacific flights, I absolutely need it to sleep through the majority of the flight. I don't even really care about music listening in moving vehicles. I just want to get rid of the noise! Haha.


----------



## koven

DJJEZ said:


> The bartok sounds amazing but its completely out of reach for me at £14,500/$20,500   congrats to you guys though. its a serious bit of gear!



Bartok is like, so 2020... kidding but there are some interesting new kids on the block in terms of $10K+ AIO.. 

https://mytek.audio/shop/empire-streamer-dac-preorder-1#attr=9

https://boulderamp.com/products/812-dac-preamplifier-coming-soon/


----------



## mammal

MaggotBrain said:


> My only complaint is that the past few days I’ve slept a little less as I’ve spent too much time with my new gear. I’ve had new gear before many many times but few have cut into my sleep.


I thought I was the only one!


----------



## Frankie D

MaggotBrain said:


> Just got my Bartok this past week and it’s been something special.
> 
> I was coming from a place where my headphone listening shifted more from one room to another - I have a Innuos Zenith SE streamer - Innuos Phoenix USB reclocker - m scaler - Dave DAC - audio gd HE9 amp  (also also ATC SCM 100 ASL powered speakers). But as my habits of use changed (less morning use so no headphones needed), I moved most of my headphones to a study so at least they would get some love.
> I would use the portable amps I had at first (like woo WA11) but this meant the TC wouldn’t be used much.  And that wasn’t right so I remedied by upgrading (a familiar prescription for many of us). Started with a audio gd NFB for like $300 off eBay which was fine but the damn Dave setup spoiled me.  And while I am an monogamist in my marriage to Mrs. MaggotBrain, I am a wackadoo cult leader type polyamorous type when it comes to my gear.  So I tried out some younger sexier things - Cary DMS 500 paired to a audio gd master 9 - and it was very very good but greatness beckoned.  Thought about upgrading the amp - but then I got experimental just to tease out the DAC in my Cary unit. Attached it via XLR to Kii Three active speakers - knowing the Kiis had an outstanding built in DAC I bypassed to compare and saw that I had to make like a spawning salmon and go upstream.  I snatched the Bartok along with an upgraded power cable and Sonora Optical to clean up the Ethernet signal so everything fed to the Bartok would be inspected and disinfected like a food taster for Roman emperor.
> ...


Wow!  That was a positive review.  Thank you for the comparisons.  Do you have access to any other IEM’s?  I am curious if it can work with any IEM as well. You did mention the Thummim, but curious about more sensitive IEM’s as well.  

Please keep your thoughts about it and the TC coming. Tks.


----------



## Frankie D

Orlok said:


> Cables are very easy to sneak in. HPs and amps - not so much.
> 
> I often play music for my wife through my setup but she never comments on the sound - just the music. She's a classical piano and composition major so, believe me, she knows music better than I do in many respects but, normally, she's fine listening through AirPods or with a Bose BT speaker around the house. Kind of weird but I've noticed that with a lot of musicians - including very high level pro musicians. They don't have audiophile gear and have no interest in it whatsoever. When I tell them about what I got, they say "Cool!" but show very little interest in it. When they create their music and recordings, they are much more interested in how it sounds through the AirPods or computer speakers.


This was actually discussed in an audio article ( The Absolute Sound or Stereophile ) a number of years ago.  What I remember about the conclusion was that musicians seem to fill in the missing parts with their brains and thus few of them feel the need for better equipment at home.  They also mentioned the musicians usually have way more access to live music and do not feel a need to listen to reproduced music.   Tks.


----------



## ken6217

Orlok said:


> Cables are very easy to sneak in. HPs and amps - not so much.
> 
> I often play music for my wife through my setup but she never comments on the sound - just the music. She's a classical piano and composition major so, believe me, she knows music better than I do in many respects but, normally, she's fine listening through AirPods or with a Bose BT speaker around the house. Kind of weird but I've noticed that with a lot of musicians - including very high level pro musicians. They don't have audiophile gear and have no interest in it whatsoever. When I tell them about what I got, they say "Cool!" but show very little interest in it. When they create their music and recordings, they are much more interested in how it sounds through the AirPods or computer speakers.


Where there’s a will, there’s away. My last few motorcycle purchases have all been in black because it always looks like the same bike in the garage.


----------



## FLTWS

Frankie D said:


> This was actually discussed in an audio article ( The Absolute Sound or Stereophile ) a number of years ago.  What I remember about the conclusion was that musicians seem to fill in the missing parts with their brains and thus few of them feel the need for better equipment at home.  They also mentioned the musicians usually have way more access to live music and do not feel a need to listen to reproduced music.   Tks.


I remember reading that as well.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

I just withdrew my classified ad for the TC. I am not ready yet to part from it ... Sold my Stellia instead.


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> There are no SQ advantages over open back. Just better if you can't have sound leak like on a plane or train etc


That’s been my experience with my Focal Utopia and Stellia.


----------



## paradoxper

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I just withdrew my classified ad for the TC. I am not ready yet to part from it ... Sold my Stellia instead.


Wonder if I'll eat the same crow.


----------



## DJJEZ

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I just withdrew my classified ad for the TC. I am not ready yet to part from it ... Sold my Stellia instead.


What Made you even want to sell the 1266tc


----------



## Tachyon88

ken6217 said:


> Where there’s a will, there’s away. My last few motorcycle purchases have all been in black because it always looks like the same bike in the garage.



My Dad replaced his red Harley-Davidson with a newer one and waited to see how long it would take for my mom to notice......a few weeks it was. lol


----------



## Orlok

Frankie D said:


> This was actually discussed in an audio article ( The Absolute Sound or Stereophile ) a number of years ago.  What I remember about the conclusion was that musicians seem to fill in the missing parts with their brains and thus few of them feel the need for better equipment at home.  They also mentioned the musicians usually have way more access to live music and do not feel a need to listen to reproduced music.   Tks.


I was actually like that for many years. I'm relatively new to this audiophile hobby. I knew some people with $100K+ 2 channel systems and have heard them but thought I'd never be interested in spending that kind of money on audio gear. I was just fine with mainstream Sony and Bose stuff for many years and used my discretionary income on guitars, guitar amps and pedals, etc. And that's true about live music. I used to frequent some live music clubs every weekend and attend concerts at least once every few months. There is still nothing quite like being at live shows and experiencing performances by talented musicians in person although the sound quality may not be ideal depending on where you are in the venue. I'm really looking forward to attending concerts and shows again soon. It's been way too long...


----------



## mammal

For those interested in a detailed review of dCS Bartók driving AB-1266 and how it compares to Chord Hugo TT2 (with M Scaler) have a look here.


----------



## Pashmeister (May 29, 2021)

Hi I would like to welcome myself to the club lol. My TC just arrived today 

Currently playing music through Qobuz and HQPlayer in Roon >> Hugot TT2 >> Burson Timekeeper (1st edition) speaker amp and everything is big. I still don't have a preference between this or its sister the Susvara, but I'll be spending some time enjoying the TCs for now


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> For those interested in a detailed review of dCS Bartók driving AB-1266 and how it compares to Chord Hugo TT2 (with M Scaler) have a look here.


Thank you for writing what may be the best review of a piece of equipment that I have ever read!  Even if others here have zero interest in the Bartók I would encourage you to read this review; trust me, it’s worth it.


----------



## ken6217

mammal said:


> For those interested in a detailed review of dCS Bartók driving AB-1266 and how it compares to Chord Hugo TT2 (with M Scaler) have a look here.


Not a professional reviewer? Could have fooled me. Great review!


----------



## DJJEZ

mammal said:


> For those interested in a detailed review of dCS Bartók driving AB-1266 and how it compares to Chord Hugo TT2 (with M Scaler) have a look here.


----------



## mammal

Gadget67 said:


> Thank you for writing what may be the best review of a piece of equipment that I have ever read! Even if others here have zero interest in the Bartók I would encourage you to read this review; trust me, it’s worth it.





ken6217 said:


> Not a professional reviewer? Could have fooled me. Great review!


Thank you both, really means a lot to me. Glad to hear that you have enjoyed reading it!


----------



## DJJEZ

@mammal

I agree with others. really great review and extremely in depth like your salary and holidays etc which was really unique.


----------



## mammal

DJJEZ said:


> I agree with others. really great review and extremely in depth *like your salary and holidays etc which was really unique*.


I hope that extra transparency is useful to the reader, as I always struggle when reading articles to put myself to other person's shoes. For example, I always wanted to know if person buys AB-1266 or Bartók because they are peanuts for them and they never looked at anything cheaper, or is it because they actually researched both and found them to be the best and worth the price.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

mammal said:


> I hope that extra transparency is useful to the reader, as I always struggle when reading articles to put myself to other person's shoes. For example, I always wanted to know if person buys AB-1266 or Bartók because they are peanuts for them and they never looked at anything cheaper, or is it because they actually researched both and found them to be the best and worth the price.


I agree and really like your approach and review


----------



## jlbrach

mammal said:


> For those interested in a detailed review of dCS Bartók driving AB-1266 and how it compares to Chord Hugo TT2 (with M Scaler) have a look here.


probably needs to be compared to dave/m-scaler to be apples to apples


----------



## mammal

jlbrach said:


> probably needs to be compared to dave/m-scaler to be apples to apples


I wish I could.


----------



## MaggotBrain (May 24, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> probably needs to be compared to dave/m-scaler to be apples to apples



I actually have both (I’ve got issues I know but for fairness sake they are in separate rooms!)
Dave m scaler is divine and has great synergy with the ATC speakers I have.  The Dave as a headphone amp works fine for classical/jazz but lacks oomph - I have an audio gd HE9 which does a nice job of putting some meat on the bones.  

As DACs go the Dave /mscaler and Bartok are really quite similar in resolution. The added bonus of the Bartok is that if you do a lot of Tidal streaming you get full MQA unfolding - I would give a slight edge to the m scaler/ Dave but the more pleasant sounds come from the Bartok as least from headphones. Like sometimes you see a personality on TV without makeup and you’re getting more details but you just wish they had makeup on.  I know it’s another apples and oranges comparison - the amp in the ATC is world class and just better than the audio gd HE9 amp. The bonus in the Bartok Is that you are not getting any theoretical change in signal because there are no interconnects / amps coloring or interceding with the sound. For me the choice was obvious because I had a Roon Core in another room.  The Bartok is a great Room endpoint and obviously with the mscaler Dave you have to add that to the chain (and in full disclosure I do have a Innuos Zenith Se streamer and usb reclocker to clean up the upstream signal). 

In short - if you want a nightstand/desktop solution the Bartok is tough to beat. You can get there with mscaler Dave but there will be extra boxes and cable spaghetti.


----------



## jlbrach

as one who has the dave/blu2 combo I tend to agree that a one box solution is attractive but quite honestly even if it exists in the similar price range it is hard for me to imagine anything substantially better than the dave/blu2 to get me to change,at least for now lol


----------



## mammal

jlbrach said:


> as one who has the dave/blu2 combo I tend to agree that a one box solution is attractive but quite honestly even if it exists in the similar price range it is hard for me to imagine anything substantially better than the dave/blu2 *to get me to change*,at least for now lol


Now imagine those who do not own Dave + MScaler and are instead thinking of building a system around their AB-1266 TC. The benefit of all-in-one like HTT2 or Bartók is that it is one box that will do it all. That is exactly what lured me in. If I was in your shoes, would I be changing one TOTL system for another one? I highly doubt that. But did I want to buy Dave + MScaler just to start my search over "what amplifier to pair it with" and then "what cables are the best"? I personally did not want that.


----------



## paradoxper

mammal said:


> I wish I could.


OR just enjoy the TC and Bartok and ride off into the sunset.


----------



## mammal

paradoxper said:


> OR just enjoy the TC and Bartok and ride off into the sunset.


As someone who started with 2k budget earlier this year, and ended up spending over 20k, I think I don't have a choice even if I wanted to


----------



## paradoxper

mammal said:


> As someone who started with 2k budget earlier this year, and ended up spending over 20k, I think I don't have a choice even if I wanted to


You made the right choice. Bartok is at a level above DAVE. Rest easy.


----------



## Litlgi74

paradoxper said:


> You made the right choice. Bartok is at a level above DAVE. Rest easy.


Troublemaker


----------



## TDinCali

mammal said:


> As someone who started with 2k budget earlier this year, and ended up spending over 20k, I think I don't have a choice even if I wanted to


I'm a little scared to read the review. I've spent way too much money on this hobby already. Hopefully there's a 2-3 month back order on the Bartok. That will stop me from ordering.


----------



## mammal

TDinCali said:


> I'm a little scared to read the review. I've spent way too much money on this hobby already. Hopefully there's a 2-3 month back order on the Bartok. That will stop me from ordering.


Looking at your signature, you have an impressive setup. I see how you would be worried to upgrade to Bartók, haha.


----------



## TDinCali (May 25, 2021)

This bartok better be sold out for months. I emailed my my dealer just now.

BTW - I saw you listen to EDM mostly. Give me some examples of your favorite songs.

A couple that I'm constantly listening to right now are.
Glue by Bicep and Jazz 303 by Joey Beltram


----------



## mammal

TDinCali said:


> BTW - I saw you listen to EDM mostly. Give me some examples of your favorite songs.


I tested Bartók with songs I know very well, like Calvin Harris - Summer and Feel So Close; Diplo - Where are Ü Now; Benny Benassi - Cinema; deadmau5 - Ghosts 'n' Stuff; Skrillex - Bangarang and my most favourite of all Eric Prydz - Opus.


----------



## JLoud

If I’m testing for bass I like Slow Acid by Calvin Harris. Also some Knife Party is always good.


----------



## paradoxper

Litlgi74 said:


> Troublemaker


The truth is stirring.


----------



## MasterZen

TDinCali said:


> This bartok better be sold out for months. I emailed my my dealer just now.
> 
> BTW - I saw you listen to EDM mostly. Give me some examples of your favorite songs.
> 
> ...





JLoud said:


> If I’m testing for bass I like Slow Acid by Calvin Harris. Also some Knife Party is always good.


Dancing on my own (Tiesto Remix) Calum Scott 

In the Air - Morgan Page 

The Longest Road - Morgan Page (copious amounts of bass, perhaps headache inducing)


----------



## SuperBurrito

Limit to Your Love - James Blake
Terrible song but the bass is subterranean.  It's nuts on the 1266.


----------



## MatW

SuperBurrito said:


> Limit to Your Love - James Blake
> Terrible song but the bass is subterranean.  It's nuts on the 1266.


Try Partition by Beyonce.


----------



## DJJEZ

SuperBurrito said:


> Limit to Your Love - James Blake
> Terrible song but the bass is subterranean.  It's nuts on the 1266.


This is always a test track for me too


----------



## Stereolab42

I used to listen to tons of EDM but today only occasionally, and usually just classic albums and tracks from the '90s. I know others will argue vehemently against this, but I do think audiophile equipment benefits "natural" music to a much greater degree than electronic music, which is structurally simpler. (Puts on nuclear flameproof suit...)


----------



## JLoud

While I still listen to plenty of EDM, I find myself listening to acoustic music because it really shows what my system is capable of. And hey, it never hurts to expand your horizons a little.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Stereolab42 said:


> I used to listen to tons of EDM but today only occasionally, and usually just classic albums and tracks from the '90s. I know others will argue vehemently against this, but I do think audiophile equipment benefits "natural" music to a much greater degree than electronic music, which is structurally simpler. (Puts on nuclear flameproof suit...)


I’ve had mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I feel like complex metal songs with their blindingly fast drums, distorted guitars, loud bass and various singing/growling/screeching vocals is probably a great test for how good your system is. Listening to metal out of some cheap headphones and gear is definitely different than listening to it with TOTL headphones and gear.

However, with simpler songs, you get to focus on singular items in the soundstage. It’s easier to fully appreciate specific aspects (such as vocals and bass). When you have these simpler songs playing, it’s much easier to hear flaws in your equipment. With complex arrangements, some specific flaws can be overlooked because the other 75% of the sounds can drown the flaws out. With less complex songs, nothing is there to obfuscate the flaws. Everything has to be perfect. So, that “simple” song test is just as important as the “complex” song test.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> I’ve had mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I feel like complex metal songs with their blindingly fast drums, distorted guitars, loud bass and various singing/growling/screeching vocals is probably a great test for how good your system is. Listening to metal out of some cheap headphones and gear is definitely different than listening to it with TOTL headphones and gear.
> 
> However, with simpler songs, you get to focus on singular items in the soundstage. It’s easier to fully appreciate specific aspects (such as vocals and bass). When you have these simpler songs playing, it’s much easier to hear flaws in your equipment. With complex arrangements, some specific flaws can be overlooked because the other 75% of the sounds can drown the flaws out. With less complex songs, nothing is there to obfuscate the flaws. Everything has to be perfect. So, that “simple” song test is just as important as the “complex” song test.


Nods.

Still, metal > ALL

 \m/


----------



## cangle

Still waiting for my 1266 to arrive, been about 3 weeks since I ordered from Abyss. I've enjoyed listening to some of the tracks that everyone mentioned for testing bass. Thought I would add some that I enjoy myself with my current headphone, the LCD-4z, and hope to try out on the 1266 once that gets here.

Nextra - Deadmau5
In Degreees [Purple Disco Machine Remix] - Foals
So in Love - Document One
Journey (Upwellings Remix) - Luss
Warmth in the Coldest Acre - Photay


----------



## mammal

So I managed to organise a couple of hours audition of Hifiman Shangri-la Sr (with the amp and everything, 50k setup). Will be auditioning it sometimes next week. I am trying to get the same opportunity for Sennheiser HE-1, so that I can compare Bartók + AB-1266 vs Shangri-la Sr vs Sennheiser HE-1, but HE-1 won't be ready until June. Is there anything you want me to look for in my comparison? I guess most people do not have access to shops that own these systems, so trying to share my findings with my fellow head-fi friends. If things go well, I may get a chance to listen to Spirit Torino Valkyria (12k headphone) on Bartók sometimes in June/July as well.


----------



## MaggotBrain (May 26, 2021)

As a former Stax-009 owner, I would caution you that if you’re a bass-loving EDM fan, electrostats may not be for you. I am sure the Hifiman and Sennheiser flagships are in a class of their own, but you do have to factor in your tastes with with the tech. That is a wonderful opportunity to hear some fantastic gear though. 

I did make a playlist of the past fifteen or so songs mentioned in the past day, and you folks have incredible taste.  Here’s my favorite dance/EDM tracks for Abyss:
Only Time Makes It Human - King Princess 
Commes des Garcones - Rina Sawayama
Foolproof - Gorgon City/Hayden James/Nat Dunn
Angie (I’ve Been Lost) - Fred Again
Purple Hat - Sofi Tukker
Love of Your Life - RAYE
Pull Me Closer - Dimitri Vegas
Tessellate - Baynk/Tei Shi

And for some old school jams
808 State of Mind - Honey Dijon
Born Slippy (Nuxx) - Underworld 
Move Any Mountain - Shamen
I Feel Love - Donna Summer
YMCA - Village People - okay don’t laugh but it brings back memories of one of my first concerts. I went to see the Village People and was at the bar before the main act and I ordered a virgin strawberry daiquiri for my girlfriend and wife-to-be and I was wearing a Hawaiian shirt as to impress my girl who happens to be from Hawaii and The Construction Worker (or maybe it was just A construction worker) comes up to me and holds a measuring tape up to my inner thigh inseam area because I am, after all, wearing a Hawaiian shirt holding a virgin strawberry daiquiris at a Village People concert and I can kinda get the impression. Well apparently his measurement wasn’t to snuff cause he started to laugh and I nervously laugh because what else was I going to do?!? Anyway they put on a great show and I didn’t didn’t have the guts to tell my wife about it until decades later for fear of embarrassment and she laughed her ass off and I am a glutton for punishment and that’s why the Village People make the list.


----------



## mammal

MaggotBrain said:


> As a former Stax-009 owner, I would caution you that if you’re a bass-loving EDM fan, electrostats may not be for you. I am sure the Hifiman and Sennheiser flagships are in a class of their own, but you do have to factor in your tastes with with the tech. That is a wonderful opportunity to hear some fantastic gear though.


Thank you for your input. I did audition 009 on Blue Hawai, as well as Sennheiser HE-1 in the past at CanJams, but this was years ago, so my ears weren't as "tuned" as they are now, haha. So interested in what I will hear now.


----------



## JLoud

mammal said:


> So I managed to organise a couple of hours audition of Hifiman Shangri-la Sr (with the amp and everything, 50k setup). Will be auditioning it sometimes next week. I am trying to get the same opportunity for Sennheiser HE-1, so that I can compare Bartók + AB-1266 vs Shangri-la Sr vs Sennheiser HE-1, but HE-1 won't be ready until June. Is there anything you want me to look for in my comparison? I guess most people do not have access to shops that own these systems, so trying to share my findings with my fellow head-fi friends. If things go well, I may get a chance to listen to Spirit Torino Valkyria (12k headphone) on Bartók sometimes in June/July as well.


While the Shangri-la is out of my budget I would be curious how the Jr compares to it. If you get a chance to compare the two I would love to hear your thoughts.


----------



## BPED

Listening to classical piano music: Abyss TC vs Focal Utopia 

Last night I had to chance to hear Arcadi Volodos in concert playing Schubert and Brahms. A fantastic experience that triggered many reflections as a hi-fi and headphones lover. Since he played Brahms op.118, which he also recorded on this beautiful record, I thought it was a good opportunity to compare my headphones to what I recalled from the concert.






I consider attending concerts and listening to my gear two complementary experiences, both enjoyable in different ways. Soundstage, volume, physical impact of the music of a live performance are hardly comparable between the two. But a live performance can be a benchmark for headphones regarding the tonal accuracy acoustic of instruments and the ability to reproduce the sound of different materials being plucked, hit etc.

So I listened to op.118 with these configurations:

Dave MScaler as amp + Utopia (LR cable)
Dave MScaler + AIC-10 + Utopia (LR cable)
Dave MScaler + AIC-10 + Abyss TC (SC cable)
I tried the AIC-10 with a sharp tube (fivre), balanced tune (RT) and warm (Mullard)
*TC (via speakers taps):* larger image, clear delineation of the notes and, more convincing reproduction of lower octaves compared to the Utopia. I miss some body.

*Utopia*: tonal accuracy is better, I cannot explain but with the concert fresh in my mind I can say this is how a piano sounds. Mids are fuller, the image is closer, smaller, with more physical presence.

Dave + Utopia has the most well defined, leaner sound, the percussive nature of the piano is particularly evident. Overall a great pair.

Utopia + AIC-10 and a balanced tube improves marginally on Dave: better send of space, slightly larger image, a touch warmer, chords seems richer. The notes have more weight. This is my preferred configuration and the most realistic. 

With a Mullard I get a nice larger image but lose some definition and the overall signature - while very pleasant - is not very realistic (too dark).

*Conclusion*: for this type of music the Utopia is surprisingly better than the TC in my opinion. Passages with thundering low notes will be better on the TC but overall I can say that the Utopia brings me closer to the concert experience.

As usual: these are the personal opinions of one man: don’t shoot on the pianist 😉


----------



## iDesign

BPED said:


> Listening to classical piano music: Abyss TC vs Focal Utopia
> 
> Last night I had to chance to hear Arcadi Volodos in concert playing Schubert and Brahms. A fantastic experience that triggered many reflections as a hi-fi and headphones lover. Since he played Brahms op.118, which he also recorded on this beautiful record, I thought it was a good opportunity to compare my headphones to what I recalled from the concert.
> 
> ...


Completely agree, the Utopia is exemplary in the reproduction of a piano and the best I have heard from any headphone to date. Its significantly better than the Abyss 1266 Phi TC in that regard and why I sold mine.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Utopia is technically superior to TC which has recessed mids and is tonally not accurate. And the distortions >100dB kills it for me with metal.


----------



## ken6217

Trance_Gott said:


> Utopia is technically superior to TC which has recessed mids and is tonally not accurate. And the distortions >100dB kills it for me with metal.



I'll take recessed mids over no bass any day. (aka Utopia).


----------



## Trance_Gott

Utopia no bass? Sorry complete disagree.


----------



## ken6217

Trance_Gott said:


> Utopia no bass? Sorry complete disagree.


Really? They are known as bass lite. I guess your opinion of the 1266 has to be qualified as well then.


----------



## vonBaron

ken6217 said:


> Really? They are known as bass lite. I guess your opinion of the 1266 has to be qualified as well then.


With Niimbus they have pretty strong bass.


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> With Niimbus they have pretty strong bass.


Yeah and when I wear 12” stilts I’m a foot taller.


----------



## JLoud

All depends on the type of music you listen to and preference. I had the SR1A, and with some music its bass was the best I had ever heard. With other types of music, no where near enough for my taste.


----------



## ken6217

That’s not the headphones that’s the music. Basically you’re saying that giving headphone has great face when you play a song that has great bass.

He can spin it anyway he wants about the utopia, but the truth is that utopia is not known for bass at all. Read the forums and read the reviews. It may have other strong points, but bass is not one of them.


----------



## TDinCali

To me, the bass on the 1266 in the lower frequencies is stronger but the Utopia has a stronger slam. This is based on each setup with a different amp that’s optimized for each headphone. The 1266 on my Feliks amp sounds like crap while the Utopia sounds really good. On the flip side, the 1266 sounds better on my formula S versus the Utopia.


----------



## BPED

Both headphones have their strong points so in the end - as always - it’s about which ones we value the most.  And that choice is also related to the type of music and gear. 

Personally I consider the TC a stronger all around performer over the Utopia and I use it most  of the time for classical and jazz. But I have no issues in recognizing that the Utopia (or other cans, for the matter) can be better in some instances. 
More options, more excuses to try out different stuff, more fun!


----------



## Shahrose

I agree that the TC is the better HP overall, but the Utopia does have more prominent mids with equal resolution (in the mids). The Utopia also matches or beats the TC in speed.

Beyond that, I can't think of any area where the Focals match the Abyss...frequency extension, soundstaging, layering, separation, speaker-like sound, viscerality, dynamics etc.


----------



## jlbrach

the TC is as detailed, has better bass and soundstage...the utopia is a fine HP I have owned twice but the TC is simply better...FWIIW I own the stellia now which I like better


----------



## vonBaron

I am so lucky to own both TC and Utopia.


----------



## Slim1970

vonBaron said:


> I am so lucky to own both TC and Utopia.


Yep this is how I feel


----------



## vonBaron

Your gear is outstanding! :O


----------



## TDinCali

Yep, I have both and enjoy them. If I had to have just one it would probably be the Utopia simple because of the greater versatility.


----------



## Slim1970

vonBaron said:


> Your gear is outstanding! :O


Thanks!


----------



## paradoxper

Yikes. Ya'll must love the metallic tonality of the Utopia.


----------



## TDinCali

paradoxper said:


> Yikes. Ya'll must love the metallic tonality of the Utopia.


metallic? I don't get the joke.


----------



## Skywatcher

Slim1970 said:


> Yep this is how I feel



What is your opinion of the TC with the Luxman p750u Vs. the XI Audio Formula S?
I can audition the Luxman but not the Formula S. Do you find a significant difference between them?


----------



## FLTWS

TDinCali said:


> metallic? I don't get the joke.


Beryllium Dome Driver.


----------



## vonBaron

I listen only metal so metallic timbre is only makes Utopia better lol!


----------



## mammal

vonBaron said:


> I listen only metal so metallic timbre is only makes Utopia better lol!


Is Metallica a metallic metal band?


----------



## Slim1970

Skywatcher said:


> What is your opinion of the TC with the Luxman p750u Vs. the XI Audio Formula S?
> I can audition the Luxman but not the Formula S. Do you find a significant difference between them?


The TC's on the Luxman is brilliant. The Luxman is full bodied with a warmish tonality. It really helps fill in the TC's midrange. At the same time the Luxman is dynamic with excellent resolve, notes are weighted, imaging is solid and the sound spacious. 

The Formula S trades in some warmth for a more neutral presentation. The Formula S is dynamic sounding with excellent speed and attack. The Formula S is punchy, spacious, and more open sounding than the Luxman. They both do bass very well, but the Luxman does bass with more heft. The Formula S doesn't have the meaty sound or the drive of the Luxman. The Formula S is more about finesse and delivering a highly detailed sound. I has a hint of warmth to make music sound very enjoyable. The Formula S has very good imaging, excellent instrument separation, resolution and air. It's more true to the source or transparent so to speak. The Luxman does a house sound and it's easy to pick out when comparing the two amps. 

The Luxman is just as detailed but delivers music in a very musical, natural way. It has a tube like sweetness to its sound, but doesn't lack any clarity. It just begs you to turn up the volume and oozes power. I like them both as I get two different sounds.  Both play well with all of my headphones. The tonality of the Luxman puts it ahead of the Formula S because it's more enjoyable with a wider range of musical genres. It does a better job with the older, compressed recordings and makes them more listenable. Both are worthy of ownership.

Adding the Powerman to the Formula S is like having a secret weapon. It really ups the ante and improves the Formula S's performance big time and is highly recommended. What it doesn't do is change the tone of the Formula S. All the sonic attributes of the Formula S are enhanced. It's just something about the Luxman's sultry tone and musicality that puts the Formula S/Powerman combo slightly behind the Luxman overall. I feel lucky to own both.


----------



## Frankie D

Slim1970 said:


> The TC's on the Luxman is brilliant. The Luxman is full bodied with a warmish tonality. It really helps fill in the TC's midrange. At the same time the Luxman is dynamic with excellent resolve, notes are weighted, imaging is solid and the sound spacious.
> 
> The Formula S trades in some warmth for a more neutral presentation. The Formula S is dynamic sounding with excellent speed and attack. The Formula S is punchy, spacious, and more open sounding than the Luxman. They both do bass very well, but the Luxman does bass with more heft. The Formula S doesn't have the meaty sound or the drive of the Luxman. The Formula S is more about finesse and delivering a highly detailed sound. I has a hint of warmth to make music sound very enjoyable. The Formula S has very good imaging, excellent instrument separation, resolution and air. It's more true to the source or transparent so to speak. The Luxman does a house sound and it's easy to pick out when comparing the two amps.
> 
> ...


Great comparison. Tks.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Re: the Utopia vs. TC. I owned both for quite some time and the TC is simply better. It's just on a slightly different level. That said I really enjoyed the up front mids, the speed and energy of them. But with the TC and Susvara, and 009 on hand, I simply wasn't reaching for them enough, hence the sale. Still a fine headphone, but one level below the above headphones for sure.


----------



## number1sixerfan

mammal said:


> So I managed to organise a couple of hours audition of Hifiman Shangri-la Sr (with the amp and everything, 50k setup). Will be auditioning it sometimes next week. I am trying to get the same opportunity for Sennheiser HE-1, so that I can compare Bartók + AB-1266 vs Shangri-la Sr vs Sennheiser HE-1, but HE-1 won't be ready until June. Is there anything you want me to look for in my comparison? I guess most people do not have access to shops that own these systems, so trying to share my findings with my fellow head-fi friends. If things go well, I may get a chance to listen to Spirit Torino Valkyria (12k headphone) on Bartók sometimes in June/July as well.





MaggotBrain said:


> As a former Stax-009 owner, I would caution you that if you’re a bass-loving EDM fan, electrostats may not be for you. I am sure the Hifiman and Sennheiser flagships are in a class of their own, but you do have to factor in your tastes with with the tech. That is a wonderful opportunity to hear some fantastic gear though.



I wouldn't necessarily say they might not be for you, but it's something to be aware of. Many stats are really, really different than the TC's and from what I've read on the Shangri La Sr, I'd expect it to sound a bit like the 009 or similar which definitely is different. I would probably focus more on just listening to the Shangri-la Sr rather than looking to compare them.. especially if it's just a short few hour session. 

In any case I'm very jealous. I have a pair on the way but hifiman is having some part sourcing issues. Hopefully I'll have them shortly after you've gotten the chance to listen to them


----------



## slumberman

mammal said:


> Is Metallica a metallic metal band?


Maybe 30 years ago 😛


----------



## llamaluv

Slim1970 said:


> The TC's on the Luxman is brilliant. The Luxman is full bodied with a warmish tonality. It really helps fill in the TC's midrange. At the same time the Luxman is dynamic with excellent resolve, notes are weighted, imaging is solid and the sound spacious.
> 
> The Formula S trades in some warmth for a more neutral presentation. The Formula S is dynamic sounding with excellent speed and attack. The Formula S is punchy, spacious, and more open sounding than the Luxman. They both do bass very well, but the Luxman does bass with more heft. The Formula S doesn't have the meaty sound or the drive of the Luxman. The Formula S is more about finesse and delivering a highly detailed sound. I has a hint of warmth to make music sound very enjoyable. The Formula S has very good imaging, excellent instrument separation, resolution and air. It's more true to the source or transparent so to speak. The Luxman does a house sound and it's easy to pick out when comparing the two amps.
> 
> ...


There have been so many low-effort, virtually content-free posts on this forum praising the Formula S, but this one's the first that I've come across that actually gives me a decent idea of what it might actually sound like. Much appreciated.


----------



## Slim1970

llamaluv said:


> There have been so many low-effort, virtually content-free posts on this forum praising the Formula S, but this one's the first that I've come across that actually gives me a decent idea of what it might actually sound like. Much appreciated.


The Formula S is a really good amp, especially when paired with the Powerman. I had it a couple of months before I got the Powerman and I still felt on its own it was better than the V281 I had at the time. The Powerman just pushed even further ahead of the V281. The Formula S was clearer, more resolving, more snappy, imaged better, sounded more nuanced, had better bass definition, and almost matched the V281's bass output. This was without the Powerman


----------



## cangle

I was looking for an amp for the 1266 I have on order and Flux Lab Acoustics released their long awaited Volot amplifier today so I placed an order. The wait for that to ship is about 3 weeks but I'm looking forward to pairing the 1266 with the Volot when they both arrive. Here's a link to the amplifier if anyone's interested in reading more about it: https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/volot-dual-mono-class-a-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## Gadget67

Well, there is hope after all; my AB 1266 could be on the way to me shortly after what seems like eternity…


----------



## Polygonhell

Gadget67 said:


> Well, there is hope after all; my AB 1266 could be on the way to me shortly after what seems like eternity…


When did you order?


----------



## Gadget67

Polygonhell said:


> When did you order?


Mid March so about 11 weeks so far.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I you want some crazy metal for your Friday, this just released today, and it is indeed crazy....


----------



## Frankie D

cangle said:


> I was looking for an amp for the 1266 I have on order and Flux Lab Acoustics released their long awaited Volot amplifier today so I placed an order. The wait for that to ship is about 3 weeks but I'm looking forward to pairing the 1266 with the Volot when they both arrive. Here's a link to the amplifier if anyone's interested in reading more about it: https://fluxlab-acoustics.com/product/volot-dual-mono-class-a-headphone-amplifier/


I don’t know anything about it, but it looks awesome.


----------



## DJJEZ

Gadget67 said:


> Well, there is hope after all; my AB 1266 could be on the way to me shortly after what seems like eternity…


I hope you get them soon cause then mine won't be far behind


----------



## simorag

*Reference Recordings - A label made for the AB-1266*

This historical audiophile label is one of my very favorites when it comes to sheer technical recording quality.

Their style of recording has a special focus on staging grandeur, dynamics and transparency, all of which resonate very well with the AB-1266 strengths, thus making the case for an irresistible, compelling listening experience.

Some of my go-to tracks for bass visceral impact and dynamics are taken from these three recordings. Try the Fanfare for the Common man or the Funeral March for Rikard Nordraak from Trittico at fairly high volume and you will hear typany down to the lower notes thundering with such a violence and scale that no other headphones than the AB-1266 can hope to provide.



  ​

In these recordings (try for example l'Histoire du Soldat) the striking feature is about transparency, instrument placement / separation and detail retrieval. Also, the sense of rhythm and drive is sparklingly exciting.

 ​
Nojima Liszt B Sonata and Transcendental Studies is one of my reference recordings (pun intended) when evaluating gear for piano reproduction. The dynamics of this recording is phenomenal, and also the tone and the size of the piano (possibly the most difficult instrument to record there is) are beautiful.

While the TC aren't my favorite headphones for piano, they make listening to this recording very satisfying in terms of low-end extension, speed of the transients and dynamics range.

​
This album from the American blues singer, the AB-1266 extract each minute detail of the guitar plucks, the body motion, the deep thumping of the foot on the floor (try Black Nights) in such a vivid way that makes you feel the presence of Doug in the room with you.

Again, I have heard better reproduction of timbre and of the vocals here, but no headphones beat the TC IMHO in making you feel the excitement as from a live experience.

​


----------



## FLTWS

RR makes technically great recordings.


----------



## mogeq (May 29, 2021)

if you want to test the LCD-5 here is my solution for the last finish. The disc fits maybe a µ too big and gives the  stability over 100dB and the voices. just have to adjust the 3 holes in the disc for remove the isolation tape. its all from LCD-X with mesh.


----------



## qboogie

mogeq said:


> if you want to test the LCD-5 here is my solution for the last finish. The disc fits maybe a µ too big and gives the  stability over 100dB and the voices. just have to adjust the 3 holes in the disc for remove the isolation tape. its all from LCD-X with mesh.


One question. Why?


----------



## MaggotBrain (May 30, 2021)

mogeq said:


> if you want to test the LCD-5 here is my solution for the last finish. The disc fits maybe a µ too big and gives the  stability over 100dB and the voices. just have to adjust the 3 holes in the disc for remove the isolation tape. its all from LCD-X with mesh.


Some folks put ketchup on their hot dog. Some put beans in their chili. Just the other day I saw a lady eating a big ol’ hoagie roll, with nothing but scoops of vanilla ice cream inside (and she even offered to make me one, and I thought to myself but didn’t say, I’m white but I’m not THAT white). Judge not, friends.  Keep head-fi weird.


----------



## mogeq (May 30, 2021)

qboogie said:


> One question. Why?


against the distortion and resonances of the drivers. and it has a positive effect. the abyss has problems over 100dB.

you can try it or not.


> Some folks put ketchup on their hot dog.


or you make a joke and leave it.
its a solution for those who want it.


----------



## MaggotBrain (May 30, 2021)

mogeq said:


> against the distortion and resonances of the drivers. and it has a positive effect. the abyss has problems over 100dB.
> 
> you can try it or not.
> 
> ...



If you read closely, I was actually defending your spirit of experimentation.  I live in a country that values life, liberty and the pursuit of CrappyAbyss.


----------



## qboogie

mogeq said:


> against the distortion and resonances of the drivers. and it has a positive effect. the abyss has problems over 100dB.
> 
> you can try it or not.
> 
> ...


Interesting idea. A few more questions.

 Does it distort at >100db with all amps? 

How do you think the outer caps achieve reducing resonance if the sound pressure is being directed in the opposite direction? Do you think it's the LCD-Xs material (I believe it's magnesium?) that dampens resonance? I would think ceramic coated aluminum would be less prone being denser material. 

I noticed there are only 2 screws securing the caps in place. 

If I try this, does it void warranty?


----------



## mammal

qboogie said:


> If I try this, does it void warranty?


Best to ask someone authoritative about this, like Joe from Abyss.


----------



## qboogie

I know that's the right answer but I got  rebellious genes that I can't ignore


----------



## mogeq (May 30, 2021)

qboogie said:


> Do you think it's the LCD-Xs material (I believe it's magnesium?) that dampens resonance?



No, it is the mesh that dampens. this mesh sticks behind the LCD-X cover. to try for this take a isolation tape.
i notice that you have no interest, so don't ask any in the further .
it is a simple try without destruction. but you can more talk about amplifiers.😂


----------



## llamaluv

I just think it's kind of hilarious. And not in a bad way. Cover up the "Abyss" logo on the sides of the frame and you could really confuse a credulous fanboy or two.


----------



## Solan

Ciggavelli said:


> The whole headphone supply chain is f’d up. I’ve been waiting for my Solitaire Ps and Focal Utopias for several months now too. I just got my LCD-4 after like 6 weeks, due to a wood shortage.
> 
> It’s all
> 
> But, I guess Covid?...


A clear case for prioritizing the Abyss crew and their support chain for vaccines, if you ask me! 👨‍⚕️💉😷


----------



## Roasty

Well this turned out to be an awesome album. The bass on the abyss is amazing with some of the songs here. Check out the fourth song, Mir. Thunderous bass and sub-bass. Insane! Am totally enjoying this album. Some of the rhythms are just so mesmerising.


----------



## 3ggerhappy

This one from Parcels i am really digging right now with the abyss. Live album mastered without any edits. Daft Punk’ish electro pop. Play gapless the whole album


----------



## qboogie

I love Parcels. They do a song with Kraak & Smaak that is really lovely.


----------



## Solan (Jun 2, 2021)

If you like to bass it ... 

Joe at Abyss mentioned how rental cars invariably have the bass turned up to max. This kind of song does that. I usually play at polite levels when I drive, but this is an exception.


----------



## chief79

Hi, has anyone upgraded to the 1266 TC Phi from the Diana Phi? I have the Diana Phi now which I love but am curious if it's a "worthwhile" upgrade to make? Thanks!


----------



## Litlgi74

chief79 said:


> Hi, has anyone upgraded to the 1266 TC Phi from the Diana Phi? I have the Diana Phi now which I love but am curious if it's a "worthwhile" upgrade to make? Thanks!


All Abyss paths lead to the 1266 TC.


----------



## chief79

Litlgi74 said:


> All Abyss paths lead to the 1266 TC.


I've heard it mention that the Diana Phi has similar-ish qualities to the 1266 which begs the question whether i should resist the temptation or let it take over


----------



## Litlgi74

chief79 said:


> I've heard it mention that the Diana Phi has similar-ish qualities to the 1266 which begs the question whether i should resist the temptation or let it take over


Unfortunately.. I think that was only true in the past.. before the TC driver was available.


----------



## mammal

chief79 said:


> Hi, has anyone upgraded to the 1266 TC Phi from the Diana Phi? I have the Diana Phi now which I love but am curious if it's a "worthwhile" upgrade to make? Thanks!


Even though I only had Diana V2, I would consider AB-1266 a significant upgrade in terms of comfort and build quality. Maybe I am in minority here, but I didn't like how Diana fit on my head, whereas AB-1266 fits just perfect. Others have commented on the sonic fidelity, I wanted to add a comment on the headphone body itself.


----------



## chief79

Litlgi74 said:


> Unfortunately.. I think that was only true in the past.. before the TC driver was available.


i see, so there's more of a difference now.......


----------



## chief79

mammal said:


> Even though I only had Diana V2, I would consider AB-1266 a significant upgrade in terms of comfort and build quality. Maybe I am in minority here, but I didn't like how Diana fit on my head, whereas AB-1266 fits just perfect. Others have commented on the sonic fidelity, I wanted to add a comment on the headphone body itself.


Thanks, i've initially had some comfort issues before switching to the DMS modded-pads on the Diana which helped improved it. Just alot of pressure on my temples


----------



## mammal

chief79 said:


> Thanks, i've initially had some comfort issues before switching to the DMS modded-pads on the Diana which helped improved it. Just alot of pressure on my temples


Same here, my temples were sore after a couple of minutes wearing Dianas. Interestingly enough, Abyss had a revision on Dianas and that's why they are no longer offering DMS modded pads. They have changed the angle a bit so that it puts less pressure on your temple, but now with that change, the headphone was a bit too loose on my head. I had both versions (old loaner demo and new model I purchased), but never tried DMS modded pads. This being said, AB-1266 fits perfectly, I am wearing it 8+ hours a day and no pain whatsoever. Maybe my neck is a bit sore if I do not move, as the headphone is heavier than Diana. But if you have ever tried LCD4, it is not even close in discomfort, haha. Worth mentioning is that I wear glasses and no issue there, they fit no problem.


----------



## MatW (Jun 3, 2021)

chief79 said:


> I've heard it mention that the Diana Phi has similar-ish qualities to the 1266 which begs the question whether i should resist the temptation or let it take over





Litlgi74 said:


> Unfortunately.. I think that was only true in the past.. before the TC driver was available.


The driver of the Diana Phi is based on the TC driver:


----------



## mammal

MatW said:


> The driver of the Diana Phi is based on the TC driver:


Yes, but the acoustic chamber (how much space is there between your ear and the driver) is much smaller on Phis, therefore you get more intimate sound signature.


----------



## ufospls2 (Jun 3, 2021)

MatW said:


> The driver of the Diana Phi is based on the TC driver:




Diana Phi is based on the original 1266 Phi driver, not the TC driver. In the video it says "based on 1266" but does not specify the TC. Having owned all three, this fits with my experience.


----------



## chief79

I was hoping that the argument to upgrade to the 1266 was not going to be compelling enough


----------



## MatW

ufospls2 said:


> Diana Phi is based on the original 1266 Phi driver, not the TC driver. In the video is says "based on 1266" but does not specify the TC. Having owned all three, this fits with my experience.


Ok. Since this video is comparing TC and Diana Phi, I read that to mean based on the TC driver. Happy to accept your view.


----------



## Solan

On the topic of Tube vs Solid State ... some of us haven't quite gotten to that totl amp yet, but giving up smoking, or pretending we're starting smoking just we put the money in a jar ... or just use the old swearing jar; that fills up quickly! ... anyway, let us say a friend of yours has a Mid-Fi set-up of Toppings D70+A90 and wonders where to go next. He incidentally also has 1266, and so the question is SS vs Tube in that direction. What would you recommend as (for instance) a tube pre-amp to give a sufficient flavour of tubes to make that decision easier? Something in --say-- the $300 range so as not to provoke unnecessary swearing over the emptying of the wearing jar.


----------



## Pashmeister

Solan said:


> On the topic of Tube vs Solid State ... some of us haven't quite gotten to that totl amp yet, but giving up smoking, or pretending we're starting smoking just we put the money in a jar ... or just use the old swearing jar; that fills up quickly! ... anyway, let us say a friend of yours has a Mid-Fi set-up of Toppings D70+A90 and wonders where to go next. He incidentally also has 1266, and so the question is SS vs Tube in that direction. What would you recommend as (for instance) a tube pre-amp to give a sufficient flavour of tubes to make that decision easier? Something in --say-- the $300 range so as not to provoke unnecessary swearing over the emptying of the wearing jar.


Probably an iFI iTube2. It's discontinued but there's a few in the used market for sure


----------



## PortableAudioLover

Solan said:


> On the topic of Tube vs Solid State ... some of us haven't quite gotten to that totl amp yet, but giving up smoking, or pretending we're starting smoking just we put the money in a jar ... or just use the old swearing jar; that fills up quickly! ... anyway, let us say a friend of yours has a Mid-Fi set-up of Toppings D70+A90 and wonders where to go next. He incidentally also has 1266, and so the question is SS vs Tube in that direction. What would you recommend as (for instance) a tube pre-amp to give a sufficient flavour of tubes to make that decision easier? Something in --say-- the $300 range so as not to provoke unnecessary swearing over the emptying of the wearing jar.


I’d say go solid state first because for tubes you’d need to tweak more which means a heavier investment.


----------



## Slim1970

Pashmeister said:


> Probably an iFI iTube2. It's discontinued but there's a few in the used market for sure


I have one an it's by far one of my favorite devices. Having this tube buffer inline with my TT2 and Luxman really adds some flavor to the sound. I mainly use it for the bass boost while keeping it in classic tube mode. Works like a charm.


----------



## Pashmeister

Wanna share my recent DIY Abyss Rack Hack. Just simple L brackets screwed into wooden omega headphone stands. Then some stick-on felt pads cut to size


----------



## Roasty

Pashmeister said:


> Wanna share my recent DIY Abyss Rack Hack. Just simple L brackets screwed into wooden omega headphone stands. Then some stick-on felt pads cut to size



i give you A for effort and also for producing a frankenstein stand to match the abyss.


----------



## Solan

180 pages until we reach page 1266. Will we get there before summer? And how will we celebrate?


----------



## Litlgi74

I don't think they'll be much of a celebration if the back orders don't get filled very, very soon.🙁


----------



## cangle

Litlgi74 said:


> I don't think they'll be much of a celebration if the back orders don't get filled very, very soon.🙁


They keep posting manufacturing videos of the 1266 on their Instagram so I'm hopeful that they are making progress towards this.


----------



## Solan

Slim1970 said:


> I have one an it's by far one of my favorite devices. Having this tube buffer inline with my TT2 and Luxman really adds some flavor to the sound. I mainly use it for the bass boost while keeping it in classic tube mode. Works like a charm.


It is out of production, but it seems that if enough of us want it, we can have them make it again at Drop.

As for the 1266 production and shipping, I heard that the bottleneck is opened very soon. Fingers crossed!


----------



## DJJEZ

Litlgi74 said:


> I don't think they'll be much of a celebration if the back orders don't get filled very, very soon.🙁


In 2 days I hit 3 months/12 weeks of waiting for mine


----------



## Bonddam

I'd like to have a back up pair again and just keep it in a display case.


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> In 2 days I hit 3 months/12 weeks of waiting for mine


Likewise, but my dealer tells me it’s “imminent”, and that was one week ago.  Fingers crossed…I understand it may be because they are waiting for a big shipment of the wood boxes they are shipped in.


----------



## mammal

Gadget67 said:


> Likewise, but my dealer tells me it’s “imminent”, and that was one week ago. Fingers crossed…I understand it may be because they are waiting for a big shipment of the wood boxes they are shipped in.


Crazy how a TOTL headphone is held back by a wooden box. Feels like a hypercar in a traffic jam.


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> Crazy how a TOTL headphone is held back by a wooden box. Feels like a hypercar in a traffic jam.


I appreciate that they don’t want to send their premium headphones out in shrink wrap and then have to ship the wooden boxes at a later date.  The extra cost and time would be a non starter for me if I was in their shoes.  I’ll be patient and wait but it’s definitely getting tedious and, frankly, hurts their image.


----------



## paradoxper

It doesn't hurt their image one bit.

There is still a ****ing pandemic in this world causing supply-chain shortages.


----------



## Gadget67 (Jun 5, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> It doesn't hurt their image one bit.
> 
> There is still a ****ing pandemic in this world causing supply-chain shortages.


Well, to be clear in this case, the wooden boxes are locally sourced but there is also a wood shortage affecting prices so it may just be something that will be handled quickly.  It doesn’t hurt their image with me but I’m just opining it will with purchasers waiting many weeks.  Apparently the U.S. thinks the pandemic is over…I don’t.


----------



## paradoxper

Gadget67 said:


> Well, to be clear in this case, the wooden boxes are locally sourced but there is also a wood shortage affecting prices so it may just be something that will be handled quickly.  It doesn’t hurt their image with me but I’m just opining it will with purchasers waiting many weeks.  Apparently the U.S. thinks the pandemic is over…I don’t.


Well, not all consumers are all that bright and the continual need to bitch because it's culture doesn't really fit when logic is not applied.


----------



## Gadget67

paradoxper said:


> Well, not all consumers are all that bright and the continual need to bitch because it's culture doesn't really fit when logic is not applied.


Welcome to the real world, unfortunately.  Abyss is not holding up shipping deliberately but it doesn’t mean I’m not impatient, especially since I’ve already paid for the headphones.  I know they are doing their best but it doesn’t make waiting any easier!  Yes, first world problems, I know…


----------



## paradoxper

Gadget67 said:


> Welcome to the real world, unfortunately.  Abyss is not holding up shipping deliberately but it doesn’t mean I’m not impatient, especially since I’ve already paid for the headphones.  I know they are doing their best but it doesn’t make waiting any easier!  Yes, first world problems, I know…


Oh, complain and be impatient till the cows come home just don't claim Abyss is lacking specifically when it's all of the world.


----------



## number1sixerfan

paradoxper said:


> Oh, complain and be impatient till the cows come home just don't claim Abyss is lacking specifically when it's all of the world.



Yea, I'm also waiting and have been waiting for months for a pretty expensive headphone I've mostly already paid for in the Hifiman Shangri-La for the same reason. We're in a pandemic, totally understandable and it is what it is. Sucks, but I've just mainly put it out of mind.. it'll come when it comes.


----------



## mammal (Jun 6, 2021)

number1sixerfan said:


> Yea, I'm also waiting and have been waiting for months for a pretty expensive headphone I've mostly already paid for in the Hifiman Shangri-La for the same reason. We're in a pandemic, totally understandable and it is what it is. Sucks, but I've just mainly put it out of mind.. it'll come when it comes.


Unless someone plays into the pandemic argument and is now enjoying your Shangri-la for a couple of months at home, haha.


----------



## Gadget67

paradoxper said:


> Oh, complain and be impatient till the cows come home just don't claim Abyss is lacking specifically when it's all of the world.


I live near a dairy farm.  Watching the cows come home is just another pandemic treat!


----------



## Bonddam

Worst company I've dealt with is EML. Took them 3 months and KR from same country can deliver on time. Russia post another horses ass took them 3 months to deliver my Rock.


----------



## number1sixerfan

mammal said:


> Unless someone plays into the pandemic argument and is not enjoying your Shangri-la for a couple of months at home, haha.



Yea in that case I would be livid lol


----------



## Solan

Gadget67 said:


> Apparently the U.S. thinks the pandemic is over…I don’t.


The pandemic isn't over at all, especially with many 3rd world countries being near unvaccinated. We just don't realize how much of our economy relies on these countries, even when not directly in a supply chain from them. It's like with oil. The US oil prices go up if there's a hold-up in Russian gas production. Not because Russian gas would have gotten turned into US oil, but because those who demanded Russian gas are now turning to the same oil sources that the US buys.

So we'll have to be mindfully patient on many fronts, and still ... even then, less patient than the people of 3rd world countries. In a way this fits the name of what we're waiting for: _Total Consciousness_.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Solan said:


> The pandemic isn't over at all, especially with many 3rd world countries ...


Now that’s a term I  haven’t heard for some decades. You might want to update your geopolitics and language together with your headphones ...


----------



## Pashmeister (Jun 6, 2021)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Now that’s a term I  haven’t heard for some decades. You might want to update your geopolitics and language together with your headphones ...


I am a national from a third world country and we use this everyday. Must be quite lovely where you are from, not having to hear these terms for decades


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Pashmeister said:


> I am a national from a third world country and we use this everyday. Must be quite lovely where you are from, not having to hear these terms for decades


Not really, it’s south from Singapore (where you seem to be located). I’ll stop the discussion at this point, but the cold war is over (or it’s axis moved), and the world is a bit different from the 60s classification of first (western), east (second) and third (all the rest) world. That’s at least what I teach my students. Back to headphones, lol.


----------



## Gadget67

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Not really, it’s south from Singapore (where you seem to be located). I’ll stop the discussion at this point, but the cold war is over (or it’s axis moved), and the world is a bit different from the 60s classification of first (western), east (second) and third (all the rest) world. That’s at least what I teach my students. Back to headphones, lol.


Here is an article that may offer more perspective.  Approaching a trigger term only from an academic standpoint can be limiting.  @Pashmeister has a perspective which obviously is different than mine or yours.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...ple-of-earth-third-world-is-an-offensive-term


----------



## Pashmeister (Jun 7, 2021)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Not really, it’s south from Singapore (where you seem to be located). I’ll stop the discussion at this point, but the cold war is over (or it’s axis moved), and the world is a bit different from the 60s classification of first (western), east (second) and third (all the rest) world. That’s at least what I teach my students. Back to headphones, lol.


Yeah, I've been in Singapore for work for a couple of years now, but I'm from the Philippines. It's really not a big deal for many of us and we refer to our country as a Third World country. It's news to me that other people find it offensive. A cursory google search of the word "third world", under the news tab, results in articles from countless reputable sources using the term as normal. It is obviously a sensitive subject to other groups of people and as s a Third World national, I find the difference in perspective to be fascinating.

I agree though -- back to headphones.

I did a Youtube search on "3D" music and found Bohemian Rhapsody in 3D which blew me away. I listened to it on my couch with an Abyss TC driven by an Emotiva A-100 (jumpers installed). I think the easiest way to build an inexpensive secondary listening station for the the TC and Susvara (such as the living room for Netflix and PS5) is this inexpensive amp. Hassle-free, no adapters needed. Anyone have recommendations on some good, immersive 3D music?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Pashmeister said:


> Yeah, I've been in Singapore for work for a couple of years now, but I'm from the Philippines. It's really not a big deal for many of us and we refer to our country as a Third World country. It's news to me that other people find it offensive. A cursory google search of the word "third world", under the news tab, results in articles from countless reputable sources using the term as normal. It is obviously a sensitive subject to other groups of people and as s a Third World national, I find the difference in perspective to be fascinating.
> 
> I agree though -- back to headphones.
> 
> I did a Youtube search on "3D" music and found Bohemian Rhapsody in 3D which blew me away. I listened to it on my couch with an Abyss TC driven by an Emotiva A-100 (jumpers installed). I think the easiest way to build an inexpensive secondary listening station for the the TC and Susvara (such as the living room for Netflix and PS5) is this inexpensive amp. Hassle-free, no adapters needed. Anyone have recommendations on some good, immersive 3D music?


I have some remarks but yeah... back  to music: Kraftwerk produced all of their music in a 3D headphone edition.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_The_Catalogue

It is probably one of the best 3D recordings, technically.


----------



## bpcans

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I have some remarks but yeah... back  to music: Kraftwerk produced all of their music in a 3D headphone edition.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_The_Catalogue
> 
> It is probably one of the best 3D recordings, technically.


Hoegaardener70, Kraftwerk’s 3-D The Catalogue is one really cool sounding album!


----------



## Solan

Pashmeister said:


> I did a Youtube search on "3D" music and found Bohemian Rhapsody in 3D which blew me away. I listened to it on my couch with an Abyss TC driven by an Emotiva A-100 (jumpers installed). I think the easiest way to build an inexpensive secondary listening station for the the TC and Susvara (such as the living room for Netflix and PS5) is this inexpensive amp. Hassle-free, no adapters needed. Anyone have recommendations on some good, immersive 3D music?


Is this the mix equivalent of binaurally recorded music, or is it something else? I find the concept fascinating, the way you describe it.


----------



## littlej0e (Jun 7, 2021)

Heads up, those of you with Raal SR1a’s may want to try the convolution filters from Accurate Sound. They add more visceral musical impact, especially bass, to the sound and make the SR1a’s more well rounded and enjoyable in my opinion.

I also reached out to the creator of the filters and put him in touch with the folks from Abyss. Hoping we can get some 1266 filters sometime soon!


----------



## Pashmeister

Hoegaardener70 said:


> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_The_Catalogue
> 
> It is probably one of the best 3D recordings, technically.


Thanks, I enjoyed this!

I would also like to share that I've been looking to inject the tube sound, or enter cost-effectively into the tube rabbit hole. I decided a tube preamp is the way to go because they're much less expensive than powerful headphone tube amps and using tube speaker amps has some added complexity for my noob skillset. I considered a Schiit Freya+ but I couldn't find one locally. I found and bought a 2-months used Musical Paradise MP-701 MK2 for a very good deal. Not a lot of reviews, but I've yet to find someone who disliked it. Has anyone tried this? It's really good with the TC! It improved air, separation, bass and soundstage to my music. It's pretty bulky though; it's bigger than my dac and amp combined lol.


----------



## littlej0e (Jun 8, 2021)

Roasty said:


> Well this turned out to be an awesome album. The bass on the abyss is amazing with some of the songs here. Check out the fourth song, Mir. Thunderous bass and sub-bass. Insane! Am totally enjoying this album. Some of the rhythms are just so mesmerising.


Phenomenal album and bass. I'm using it to test my SR1a convo filters. Very trance-y. Imaging and staging is pretty good as well. Thanks, Roasty...


----------



## Blacktulipx

Hi, Guys! May be someone has already listened Abyss with Silver-fi cables? I've decided to buy one blindly but some info would be valuable. Thanks in advance!


----------



## mammal

Blacktulipx said:


> Hi, Guys! May be someone has already listened Abyss with Silver-fi cables? I've decided to buy one blindly but some info would be valuable. Thanks in advance!


I have just ordered Lavricables today, so please report on your Silver-fi and I will on Lavricables


----------



## DJJEZ

mammal said:


> I have just ordered Lavricables today, so please report on your Silver-fi and I will on Lavricables


Which lavricable did you buy?


----------



## mammal

DJJEZ said:


> Which lavricable did you buy?


2.5m long; Grand tier; upgraded AECO and Furutec connectors; 150 burn in - will write a review once it arrives


----------



## Solan

Silver is excellent for keeping vampires and electrical resistance away from your music. I use silver from Toxic for my IEMs. Works well and looks cool.


----------



## InTune321

Just got notice, my 1266 TC’s are on their way.Week 15, better late than never. Should have them Friday. Excited to be able to participate a little more meaningfully to this thread. I’ll share once they arrive.


----------



## Solan

InTune321 said:


> Just got notice, my 1266 TC’s are on their way.Week 15, better late than never. Should have them Friday. Excited to be able to participate a little more meaningfully to this thread. I’ll share once they arrive.


Great news indeed. As my friends would say: Post a picture with them on your head, or it didn't happen!


----------



## paradoxper

InTune321 said:


> Just got notice, my 1266 TC’s are on their way.Week 15, better late than never. Should have them Friday. Excited to be able to participate a little more meaningfully to this thread. I’ll share once they arrive.


Congrats. Finally!


----------



## Gadget67

InTune321 said:


> Just got notice, my 1266 TC’s are on their way.Week 15, better late than never. Should have them Friday. Excited to be able to participate a little more meaningfully to this thread. I’ll share once they arrive.


Mine are apparently shipping in the next day or so per Abyss!  Finally…more than 12 weeks for me.


----------



## SuperBurrito

Gadget67 said:


> Mine are apparently shipping in the next day or so per Abyss!  Finally…more than 12 weeks for me.


Awesome.  After having the 1266 for nearly 2 months, I can say they are amazing indeed, especially with EDM or rock.  They're super dynamic, like 20 cups of coffee!  But now I'm curious about the Superconductor cables, ugh!

So many things are taking long these days.  I have a Symposium rack on order and am now at week 15 with no ship date in sight due to parts shortages.


----------



## mammal

SuperBurrito said:


> After having the 1266 for nearly 2 months, I can say they are amazing indeed, especially with EDM or rock. They're super dynamic, like 20 cups of coffee!


I have to agree, AB-1266 for the win on EDM. As far as coffee goes, try to wake up in a morning, do a shot of Vodka and RedBull and yell Valhalla. Works better than coffee in my opinion, just don't drive.


----------



## larryzotter

Can the ta-zh1es power the 1266?


----------



## cangle

Looks like my 1266 are on the way too. Just got an email from Abyss saying that they are ready to overnight them via UPS. I'm surprised that they are shipping so quickly since I ordered on May 5th and others in this thread have had to wait 2+ months. However, I ordered direct from Abyss so I'm guessing that reduces the wait time. Hopefully I will have them by Friday, guess it depends on when UPS receives the package as the tracking number does not show up on UPS's end yet.


----------



## DJJEZ (Jun 10, 2021)

Very happy to see everyone in USA getting their abyss finally. Means not too much longer for mine hopefully


----------



## Orlok (Jun 10, 2021)

Just returned from an epic RV trip to south Utah (with a bit of Nevada and Arizona thrown in) and it really was an awesome experience. It's something I've been wanting to do for many years and which I've been planning since early this year. Took my full-blown TC rig and my new Diana/WA11 setup for my wife and I to enjoy in the evenings while sipping beer/wine and looking at the starry skies. For the long but exceptionally pleasant cruises through the deserts, I had the JH Audio Layla CIEM and the trusty Audeze LCDi4 for the spellbinding hikes on the trails of Zion and Bryce Canyon. Great sound with great scenery just go so well together.

It really is something else to enjoy the TC/Diana out in the grand nature. It takes the listening experience to a whole new level. The Chord stack components fit in nicely inside the Abyss HP and JPS SC boxes I saved for the transport: the HP box for the TToby and the SC boxes for the HMS and TT2. It certainly would have been simpler to take only the HMS and TT2 but, to me, the TToby takes it to such a higher level that I just had to take it with me as well. For 2~3 hours of blissful listening every night, it definitely was worth taking the setup on the trip.

I'm totally smitten by RV'ing. It seems as though America is tailor-made for RV travel - especially the West. It definitely changed my perspective on things - including this "audiophile life". I now feel that I'm firmly set and I have everything I need and want. I'd much rather get a nice RV now - something like this! haha - than more audiophile stuff. As we like to say over here - YOLO. Anyway, enjoying the TC with the Chord stack with my wife beside me enjoying the Diana Phi with WA11 out in nature was really an incredible experience and even better than I had imagined. Now I want to be able to have various backdrops for the music coming out of these amazing headphones.


----------



## TDinCali

Orlok said:


> Just returned from an epic RV trip to south Utah (with a bit of Nevada and Arizona thrown in) and it really was an awesome experience. It's something I've been wanting to do for many years and which I've been planning since early this year. Took my full-blown TC rig and my new Diana/WA11 setup for my wife and I to enjoy in the evenings while sipping beer/wine and looking at the starry skies. For the long but exceptionally pleasant cruises through the deserts, I had the JH Audio Layla CIEM and the trusty Audeze LCDi4 for the spellbinding hikes on the trails of Zion and Bryce Canyon. Great sound with great scenery just go so well together.
> 
> It really is something else to enjoy the TC/Diana out in the grand nature. It takes the listening experience to a whole new level. The Chord stack components fit in nicely inside the Abyss HP and JPS SC boxes I saved for the transport: the HP box for the TToby and the SC boxes for the HMS and TT2. It certainly would have been simpler to take only the HMS and TT2 but, to me, the TToby takes it to such a higher level that I just had to take it with me as well. For 2~3 hours of blissful listening every night, it definitely was worth taking the setup on the trip.
> 
> I'm totally smitten by RV'ing. It seems as though America is tailor-made for RV travel - especially the West. It definitely changed my perspective on things - including this "audiophile life". I now feel that I'm firmly set and I have everything I need and want. I'd much rather get a nice RV now - something like this! haha - than more audiophile stuff. As we like to say over here - YOLO. Anyway, enjoying the TC with the Chord stack with my wife beside me enjoying the Diana Phi with WA11 out in nature was really an incredible experience and even better than I had imagined. Now I want to be able to. have various backdrops for the music coming out of these amazing headphones.


Very cool! You had the first class experience. I had coach.


----------



## littlej0e (Jun 9, 2021)

Sigh, I’m still waiting for mine. At Just over 14 weeks, I’m guessing I’ll get them soon based on other’s updates.

Congrats to all that got their notice!


----------



## SuperBurrito

Orlok said:


> Just returned from an epic RV trip to south Utah (with a bit of Nevada and Arizona thrown in) and it really was an awesome experience. It's something I've been wanting to do for many years and which I've been planning since early this year. Took my full-blown TC rig and my new Diana/WA11 setup for my wife and I to enjoy in the evenings while sipping beer/wine and looking at the starry skies. For the long but exceptionally pleasant cruises through the deserts, I had the JH Audio Layla CIEM and the trusty Audeze LCDi4 for the spellbinding hikes on the trails of Zion and Bryce Canyon. Great sound with great scenery just go so well together.
> 
> It really is something else to enjoy the TC/Diana out in the grand nature. It takes the listening experience to a whole new level. The Chord stack components fit in nicely inside the Abyss HP and JPS SC boxes I saved for the transport: the HP box for the TToby and the SC boxes for the HMS and TT2. It certainly would have been simpler to take only the HMS and TT2 but, to me, the TToby takes it to such a higher level that I just had to take it with me as well. For 2~3 hours of blissful listening every night, it definitely was worth taking the setup on the trip.
> 
> I'm totally smitten by RV'ing. It seems as though America is tailor-made for RV travel - especially the West. It definitely changed my perspective on things - including this "audiophile life". I now feel that I'm firmly set and I have everything I need and want. I'd much rather get a nice RV now - something like this! haha - than more audiophile stuff. As we like to say over here - YOLO. Anyway, enjoying the TC with the Chord stack with my wife beside me enjoying the Diana Phi with WA11 out in nature was really an incredible experience and even better than I had imagined. Now I want to be able to. have various backdrops for the music coming out of these amazing headphones.


Awesome, that's probably one of the best mobile hi-fi rigs out there!  Never seen one of those at a campsite!
Utah is amazing. I was surprised how many European tourists go there.  And they know way about the locations than my American born friends and coworkers, lol.  I talked to some Europeans in Unimogs or other crazy off-road RVs that they brought in to the US, just so they could go on a 3-month or 6-month vacation.  Incredible.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Orlok said:


> Just returned from an epic RV trip to south Utah (with a bit of Nevada and Arizona thrown in) and it really was an awesome experience. It's something I've been wanting to do for many years and which I've been planning since early this year. Took my full-blown TC rig and my new Diana/WA11 setup for my wife and I to enjoy in the evenings while sipping beer/wine and looking at the starry skies. For the long but exceptionally pleasant cruises through the deserts, I had the JH Audio Layla CIEM and the trusty Audeze LCDi4 for the spellbinding hikes on the trails of Zion and Bryce Canyon. Great sound with great scenery just go so well together.
> 
> It really is something else to enjoy the TC/Diana out in the grand nature. It takes the listening experience to a whole new level. The Chord stack components fit in nicely inside the Abyss HP and JPS SC boxes I saved for the transport: the HP box for the TToby and the SC boxes for the HMS and TT2. It certainly would have been simpler to take only the HMS and TT2 but, to me, the TToby takes it to such a higher level that I just had to take it with me as well. For 2~3 hours of blissful listening every night, it definitely was worth taking the setup on the trip.
> 
> I'm totally smitten by RV'ing. It seems as though America is tailor-made for RV travel - especially the West. It definitely changed my perspective on things - including this "audiophile life". I now feel that I'm firmly set and I have everything I need and want. I'd much rather get a nice RV now - something like this! haha - than more audiophile stuff. As we like to say over here - YOLO. Anyway, enjoying the TC with the Chord stack with my wife beside me enjoying the Diana Phi with WA11 out in nature was really an incredible experience and even better than I had imagined. Now I want to be able to. have various backdrops for the music coming out of these amazing headphones.



I would think I'd be too chicken to take hifi cans into mother nature but this looks insanely amazing and inspiring.


----------



## TDinCali

Seems like we have a few folks who enjoy the outdoors and head-fi. I'll offer this up for those that might be interested.

Mobile head-fi offroading trip through California desert.


----------



## Orlok

TDinCali said:


> Very cool! You had the first class experience. I had coach.


I certainly wouldn't say that setup of Stellia & Hugo2 is "coach"! That is an awesome shot out in the desert somewhere. This is definitely one of the reasons I want to get an off-road vehicle to take along on RV excursions.


----------



## Orlok

number1sixerfan said:


> I would think I'd be too chicken to take hifi cans into mother nature but this looks insanely amazing and inspiring.


I'd say it's definitely worth a shot with something not too big, bulky or complex in terms of setup. Mother Nature and great music with great sound is indeed an amazing combination.


----------



## OceanRanger

SuperBurrito said:


> Awesome, that's probably one of the best mobile hi-fi rigs out there!  Never seen one of those at a campsite!
> Utah is amazing. I was surprised how many European tourists go there.  And they know way about the locations than my American born friends and coworkers, lol.  I talked to some Europeans in Unimogs or other crazy off-road RVs that they brought in to the US, just so they could go on a 3-month or 6-month vacation.  Incredible.


Unimogs take this to a whole new level….


----------



## Orlok

SuperBurrito said:


> Awesome, that's probably one of the best mobile hi-fi rigs out there!  Never seen one of those at a campsite!
> Utah is amazing. I was surprised how many European tourists go there.  And they know way about the locations than my American born friends and coworkers, lol.  I talked to some Europeans in Unimogs or other crazy off-road RVs that they brought in to the US, just so they could go on a 3-month or 6-month vacation.  Incredible.


I never paid too much attention to the big rigs that serious vacationers took on their trips until this one. Man, these people are _serious_ about what they take on the road with them. I was so blown away by some RVs and what they brought with them. And I would see these huge RVs and trucks pulling their 5-wheelers with the toy haulers snaking their way through narrow curvy mountain roads and all I could do was just smile: "Man, you people sure know how to enjoy life! You don't fool around. I want to be just like you!" Haha. 

Entegra is like the Abyss of the RV world. One was parked right behind our "modest" 36-footer at a camp in Utah and I had some good talks with the owner. It's the first and fourth photos that I attached here. He looked a little younger than me (early-50's) but was already retired and traveling around with his wife in this TOTL RV pulling a custom hot-rodded off-road Jeep. And then there was another TOTL RV called Tiffin. That's in the last photo with a red SUV in the front. This was parked right in front of us and I talked to an elderly couple who came with this rig. They seemed quite happy with what they had.

Entegra and Tiffin are like Abyss and HiFiMan of the RV world, so to speak. I'd go into RV forums and there'd be these Entegra vs Tiffin threads for TOTL RVs. Haha. Funny stuff. Well, I can say for sure that these are not the only TOTL RV players just like Abyss and HiFiMan aren't the only ones making great TOTL HPs. And, yes, there are RVs that cost as much as a cool $2m. I guess that's like the HE1 or the Shangri-La of the RV world. 

Competition is good! It forces the manufacturers to be the best they can be.


----------



## Orlok

OceanRanger said:


> Unimogs take this to a whole new level….


I looked up the Unimogs. Man, now that is some _extreme_ stuff. Well, I'm too old for that now! Haha. I definitely want to do some off-roading but, like you say, that's a whole different level.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Jun 10, 2021)

One doesn't always need much stuff to have fun.


----------



## mammal

So my black AB-1266 has now matching black Bartók, yay!


----------



## Roasty

mammal said:


> So my black AB-1266 has now matching black Bartók, yay!



I'm super jealous!


----------



## Hoegaardener70

mammal said:


> So my black AB-1266 has now matching black Bartók, yay!


So clean and tidy, yet so good. I seriously want this


----------



## mammal

Hoegaardener70 said:


> So clean and tidy, yet so good. I seriously want this


The simplest setup I could come up with


----------



## SuperBurrito

Orlok said:


> I looked up the Unimogs. Man, now that is some _extreme_ stuff. Well, I'm too old for that now! Haha. I definitely want to do some off-roading but, like you say, that's a whole different level.


Not to derail the thread too much but I like the idea of the EarthRoamer (off road camper), since you can just spend the night wherever you want.  No more sticking to paved roads and campsites.


----------



## mammal

SuperBurrito said:


> Not to derail the thread too much but I like the idea of the EarthRoamer (off road camper), since you can just spend the night wherever you want. No more sticking to paved roads and campsites.


Does it come with Abyss car speakers though?


----------



## Solan

Roasty said:


> I'm super jealous!


I'm so jealous that I'm jealous of you being jealous!


----------



## cangle (Jun 10, 2021)

They have arrived. It's been just over 12 hours since Abyss shipped them so I was happy to see the UPS truck pull up this morning. The fitment video on youtube is very helpful and I followed that to get a rough fit on my head. I have the pads in the default 10/2 position. I had to stretch the orings a bit and the frame as well but it's sitting comfortably on my head. One thing I noticed is that if you pull the drivers away from your head the frequency of the lower notes increase (in pitch not volume) and it sort of sounds like you are underwater. Not sure why but at least I know that I can leave a gap between the pads and my head up to the point that the frequency changes. I'm still waiting for a more powerful amp to arrive, the Flux Volot, but out of the Flux FA-12 they sound just fine.


----------



## bpcans

TDinCali said:


> Very cool! You had the first class experience. I had coach.


TDinCali, I take my MacBook Pro 💻 with an AQ Dragonfly DAC and Jitterbug plugged into a pair of Grado RS1i hp’s when I travel or go glamping in our big Hilleberg expedition tent. I’m trying to imagine how good adding a Hugo2 would increase my music enjoyment during these trips.


----------



## SuperBurrito

cangle said:


> They have arrived. It's been just over 12 hours since Abyss shipped them so I was happy to see the UPS truck pull up this morning. The fitment video on youtube is very helpful and I followed that to get a rough fit on my head. I have the pads in the default 10/2 position. I had to stretch the orings a bit and the frame as well but it's sitting comfortably on my head. One thing I noticed is that if you pull the drivers away from your head the frequency of the lower notes increase (in pitch not volume) and it sort of sounds like you are underwater. Not sure why but at least I know that I can leave a gap between the pads and my head up to the point that the frequency changes. I'm still waiting for a more powerful amp to arrive, the Flux Volot, but out of the Flux FA-12 they sound just fine.


Awesome.  Some notes about the headband...  Abyss recommended to me that I stretch the o-rings by storing the 1266 at the maximum adjustable width, and keeping the headphones on a stand, being held by the headband, not the aluminum frame.  The o-rings are meant to stretch over time.  If the headband is still too tight, you can buy bigger o-rings.  That's what I did.  I ended up using o-rings that were 2 sizes bigger (size 216)


----------



## cangle

SuperBurrito said:


> Awesome.  Some notes about the headband...  Abyss recommended to me that I stretch the o-rings by storing the 1266 at the maximum adjustable width, and keeping the headphones on a stand, being held by the headband, not the aluminum frame.  The o-rings are meant to stretch over time.  If the headband is still too tight, you can buy bigger o-rings.  That's what I did.  I ended up using o-rings that were 2 sizes bigger (size 216)


Good to know. I don't have a stand for them at the moment but I have to use them at almost max width so I hope that will stretch them out. I also ordered an o-ring set that someone had posted with all the different sizes and I have some dekoni nuggets too just to help with the fit if I need it


----------



## SuperBurrito

cangle said:


> Good to know. I don't have a stand for them at the moment but I have to use them at almost max width so I hope that will stretch them out. I also ordered an o-ring set that someone had posted with all the different sizes and I have some dekoni nuggets too just to help with the fit if I need it


If you end up using the nuggets, please post about your experience.  I am considering ordering them.


----------



## MatW

cangle said:


> Good to know. I don't have a stand for them at the moment but I have to use them at almost max width so I hope that will stretch them out. I also ordered an o-ring set that someone had posted with all the different sizes and I have some dekoni nuggets too just to help with the fit if I need it


I would replace the O-rings. Stretching them out may take a while. Replacing them instantly gives you the fit you want.


----------



## JLoud

SuperBurrito said:


> If you end up using the nuggets, please post about your experience.  I am considering ordering them.


I am using the nuggets with the old headband. One on each end. Helps balance out the pressure and raised the fit a little. No more hot spot and height is just right. Easy to reverse as well. Cheap and easy to try.


----------



## cangle (Jun 10, 2021)

MatW said:


> I would replace the O-rings. Stretching them out may take a while. Replacing them instantly gives you the fit you want.


I just put the 216 size on and its much better. I might step down to 215 though as these are a bit loose. Good suggestion though the stock ones were just a bit too taught for my liking.

Edit: Switched to size 215 and those are a better fit for me. I think Abyss uses size 214 or 213 so it's only a small adjustment but it's worth it for me.


----------



## Gadget67

Mine will arrive tomorrow; just received my UPS overnight notice.   FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## mammal

Happy to hear everyone is finally getting their AB-1266, really sounds like Abyss has finally fixed their machines and are able to produce again?


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> Happy to hear everyone is finally getting their AB-1266, really sounds like Abyss has finally fixed their machines and are able to produce again?


According to my dealer, the big hold up was the wooden boxes that they ship in.  These are sourced locally near Abyss.  There may be other reasons but it does look like the dam has broken…


----------



## cangle

For those that ordered from a dealer as opposed to direct from Abyss, what sort of benefits do you get from using a dealer?


----------



## Roasty

cangle said:


> For those that ordered from a dealer as opposed to direct from Abyss, what sort of benefits do you get from using a dealer?



if it is a dealer local to you, then convenience, ease of returns, dealer discounts, giving them business and getting to know them which also helps with your future purchases.
if it is an online dealer, well, some are very nice to work with and talk to (key word is "some"). they may also offer return customer discounts, vouchers, etc.


----------



## cangle (Jun 10, 2021)

Thought I'd post some impressions of these so far. Chain is pi2aes -(i2s)> Denafrips Pontus II -> Flux Lab Acoustics FA-12 -> 1266 balanced, stock cable. (More powerful amp on the way)

When I first put these on I was surprised how their tonality was pretty similar to the LCD-4z which was my go to headphone before this. Although the tonality is similar I think the 1266 is better in most ways over the LCD-4z. Things that the 1266 has impressed me with so far has been imaging, bass impact, dynamics (I've jumped in my chair a few times when listening), treble presentation (feels airy like the 800S), and soundstage. Also the 1266 sounds more realistic compared to the 4z. An analogy that comes to mind when describing the 1266 is if the LCD-4z and HD800S had a baby and adopted a subwoofer.

I've got the fit to a point where they sit comfortably and the big part of the pad touches my head but the rest is just sort of grazing my face or not touching at all. I'm still playing with the toe-in and width as well as the position of my ears inside the pad.

Here's some music that I've enjoyed with the 1266 today:
Mir on Buddha Bar Elements
Lingua Franca - T.R.A.M
Opus - Eric Prydz
Journey (Upwellings Remix) on Moments by Luss
Downgrade Desert by Igorrr

Some of these albums and tracks I've got from this thread so thanks for the music recommendation if you see something you've posted


----------



## mammal

cangle said:


> Opus - Eric Prydz


Very nice choice, my favourite.


cangle said:


> For those that ordered from a dealer as opposed to direct from Abyss, what sort of benefits do you get from using a dealer?


For me in Switzerland, I get a local 2 year warranty and the dealer has to deal with the repair (no need for me to send to the US and pay for shipping and all). If you register your product Abyss gives you 3 years of warranty (even if purchased via a Dealer) so only the third year I will have to deal with them on my own.


----------



## cangle (Jun 11, 2021)

mammal said:


> If you register your product Abyss gives you 3 years of warranty (even if purchased via a Dealer) so only the third year I will have to deal with them on my own.


Thanks to those of you on this thread that have mentioned this extended warranty. I submitted my application for it through Abyss yesterday.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

cangle said:


> For those that ordered from a dealer as opposed to direct from Abyss, what sort of benefits do you get from using a dealer?


Demo unit. it's more informative than read/watch 1000 reviews, and also save plenty of time to read/watch them.


----------



## Gadget67

Mine have (finally) arrived.  Fit was quick and easy, and they are fabulous right out of the box with the 1/4“ headphone out on the front of the TT2.  Definitely next level!  I’m looking forward to spending lots of time with them this weekend!  Here’s a quick pic!


----------



## jlbrach

they dont look even, in need of an adjustment it appears


----------



## Gadget67

jlbrach said:


> they dont look even, in need of an adjustment it appears


They are in need of a better picture…


----------



## drew911d

I'm quite flabergasted by all the talk about Abyss being not as good as susv in vocals.  I've had my Phi for a couple years now.  I've heard susv, maybe not with the perfect amp,but vocals from Abyss just sounds more real.


----------



## InTune321 (Jun 12, 2021)

15 weeks and they are finally here. Everything I had hoped for. Was very distracted with listening yesterday, so I didn't have a chance to post. Started with the SE output on my TT2 and have since moved to the XLR's. Much more grip and definition on everything with the XLR's. Currently having some speaker taps made for me, and then I will see what the Etude brings to the show. Until then, I will sit back and enjoy listening to how they evolve through the break-in period. And by the way, they only sit atop the mscaler for this picture, not a full-time thing


----------



## mammal

InTune321 said:


> 15 weeks and they are finally here. Everything I had hoped for. Was very distracted with listening yesterday, so I didn't have a chance to post. Started with the SE output on my TT2 and have since moved to the XLR's. Much more grip and definition on everything with the XLR's. Currently having some speaker taps made for me, and then I will see what the Etude brings to the show. Until then, I will sit back and enjoy listening to how they evolve through the break-in period. And by the way, they only sit atop the mscaler for this picture, not a full-time thing


Congrats and let us know how it sounds on Etude when you get the adapter!


----------



## marcus2704

I have a option of buying a TC from overseas, the box alone adds approx $140 to the shipping cost.  I personally have little need for it myself but in terms of potential resale is not having the box likely to reduce the sale value by more than that?


----------



## paradoxper

marcus2704 said:


> I have a option of buying a TC from overseas, the box alone adds approx $140 to the shipping cost.  I personally have little need for it myself but in terms of potential resale is not having the box likely to reduce the sale value by more than that?


I'm going to support pure conjecture, but I surmise the dealer networks overseas are not as strong as in the US which would dictate MINT-like-conditions to foster sales. 

As such, I'd wager more limited availability drives a more flexible market even without original packaging.

Could be totally wrong though. To think a box provides such value.


----------



## mammal

marcus2704 said:


> I have a option of buying a TC from overseas, the box alone adds approx $140 to the shipping cost. I personally have little need for it myself but in terms of potential resale is not having the box likely to reduce the sale value by more than that?


If I was buying one used, I wouldn't care about a box it originally came in with.


----------



## JLoud

I bought a pelican style case for mine. The wood box has never come back out of the shipping box. Personally I wouldn’t care any the box if I was buying used. Interesting and nice to look at but wouldn’t change what I was willing to pay. Certainly not $140 worth.


----------



## Pashmeister (Jun 12, 2021)

marcus2704 said:


> I have a option of buying a TC from overseas, the box alone adds approx $140 to the shipping cost.  I personally have little need for it myself but in terms of potential resale is not having the box likely to reduce the sale value by more than that?


We don't know what the market will be like on a boxless TC in the future but in my experience, I have bought used boxless TOTL headphones twice in the past and yes they were cheaper compared to used units that came with their boxes and in my experience by about approx 150-200usd. I didn't care about the box and was just happy to pay the cheaper price.


----------



## number1sixerfan

drew911d said:


> I'm quite flabergasted by all the talk about Abyss being not as good as susv in vocals.  I've had my Phi for a couple years now.  I've heard susv, maybe not with the perfect amp,but vocals from Abyss just sounds more real.



I think both things really are true. The Abyss definitely had a greater degree of realism than the Susvara, but I think most people are referring to how the mids and vocals are more prominent/forward in general on the Susvara than the TC. 



marcus2704 said:


> I have a option of buying a TC from overseas, the box alone adds approx $140 to the shipping cost.  I personally have little need for it myself but in terms of potential resale is not having the box likely to reduce the sale value by more than that?



From my experience, buyers here tend to really care about having 100% of the original packaging, which is a bit weird to me as you're buying them used lol. I would think cost wise it probably will even out if you sale them used so it doesn't much matter either way.


----------



## Gadget67

marcus2704 said:


> I have a option of buying a TC from overseas, the box alone adds approx $140 to the shipping cost.  I personally have little need for it myself but in terms of potential resale is not having the box likely to reduce the sale value by more than that?


Not sure why the box would add so much to the shipping cost, but in any event it’s probably a wash.  You’ll pay less now and get a bit less when you sell.  I’m about to banish my box to the basement with all of the other boxes but I guess I’m glad I have it.


----------



## jlbrach (Jun 12, 2021)

marcus2704 said:


> I have a option of buying a TC from overseas, the box alone adds approx $140 to the shipping cost.  I personally have little need for it myself but in terms of potential resale is not having the box likely to reduce the sale value by more than that?


get the box although I think the seller is taking advantage asking for 140 dollars additional for the box


----------



## Abyss Headphones

Dimensional weight (LxWxH) on a fully boxed AB-1266 is about 17 pounds / 7 kg.


----------



## Litlgi74

Abyss Headphones said:


> Dimensional weight (LxWxH) on a fully boxed AB-1266 is about 17 pounds / 7 kg.


Will you consider going to a pelican style box with custom kaizen foam cut-outs like other TOTL headphone companies? IMO, the wooden box is not very practical and is kind of useless once the headphones are removed.


----------



## paradoxper

No no. We need petition for an all-aluminum 7075 CNC'ed custom-fit tiara display for you ****ing queens.

It'll only be a mere 200 pound case but you deserve it.


----------



## Gadget67

paradoxper said:


> No no. We need petition for an all-aluminum 7075 CNC'ed custom-fit tiara display for you ****ing queens.
> 
> It'll only be a mere 200 pound case but you deserve it.


Well, as long as they don’t raise the price…


----------



## Gadget67

Litlgi74 said:


> Will you consider going to a pelican style box with custom kaizen foam cut-outs like other TOTL headphone companies? IMO, the wooden box is not very practical and is kind of useless once the headphones are removed.


I’ve received headphones in all kinds of packaging including pelican cases (Audeze).  I actually like the wooden box, but I’m still not likely to use it.  Ditto for pelican cases.  Honestly I’d be happy with shrink wrap if it lowered the price!


----------



## paradoxper

Gadget67 said:


> Well, as long as they don’t raise the price…


They ****ing sell superconductor cables etched with who knows obsidian, kryptonite, osmium.

On my behalf, they'll call this customer appreciation at no extra charge!


----------



## Gadget67

paradoxper said:


> They ****ing sell superconductor cables etched with who knows obsidian, kryptonite, osmium.


From my perspective, the superconductor cables are made of unobtanium…


----------



## paradoxper

Gadget67 said:


> From my perspective, the superconductor cables are made of unobtanium…


This ununennium is what caused all of the supply-chain delays. 
​


----------



## Abyss Headphones

The AB-1266 heavy leather carry case is far cooler than some plastic and foam case.


----------



## Litlgi74

Abyss Headphones said:


> The AB-1266 heavy leather carry case is far cooler than some plastic and foam case.


Sorry... But it is not.


----------



## Slim1970

Abyss Headphones said:


> The AB-1266 heavy leather carry case is far cooler than some plastic and foam case.


Can the leather carrying case be bought separately?


----------



## Abyss Headphones

Problem has always been supply, made by a small company in California. Working on building up stock. In the meantime, contact us if interested.


----------



## marcus2704

I went with the box   

How are the TCs for extended listening?  I work from home so can listen for six hours plus a day as an example.


----------



## cangle

marcus2704 said:


> I went with the box
> 
> How are the TCs for extended listening?  I work from home so can listen for six hours plus a day as an example.


I've only had mine for a few days but have listened for up to 3 hours at a time. I don't get fatigued and I find them to be more comfortable for longer sessions than my LCD-4z where the 4z would give me a hot spot on my head after an hour or so. They are very resolving though so if you are sensitive to treble they might be fatiguing. Also probably depends on the genre of music that you like. If you listen to more acoustic / instrumental music I wouldn't think you'd be bothered by them but if you are listening to a lot of electronic or pop you might get fatigued. I listen to mostly electronic though and they really don't irritate my ears at all unless I turn up the volume too much which is easy to do with these.


----------



## Gadget67

So, received mine on Friday 6/11 and I’m finally glad to be able to participate with actual impressions.  

Firstly, the fitting process was actually fast and easy after watching the Abyss videos.  I don’t have any hot spots and, on balance, they are pretty comfortable.  Apparently I have the prototype head size; even the o-rings are fine as is.  They don’t slide around and putting the ear cups at 10 o’clock and 2:00 o’clock seems perfect.  I’ll certainly experiment with moving them around but tilting the headphone back and forth seems to provide enough flexibility to move sound stage, enhance bass, etc.  I was worried they be an ongoing fit nightmare but they really don’t move much unless I shake my head with a bit of enthusiasm.  I guess I’ll suffer with it!

My start point was single ended out from the TT2/M-Scaler listening from my stored music files (MacBook Pro/Audirvana/optical out/M-Scaler/TT2/Abyss) using the stock headphone cable.  I also experimented with Lazuli Reference and Moon silver Dragon headphone cables.  The stock cable is just fine IMHO though I might give a very slight edge to the silver dragons.  I’d have to say the headphones exceeded my high expectations, so we are off to a good start.  I’m not yet going to get into comparisons with other headphones I own (Utopia, Stellia, Sony Z1R, LCD-X) but the Abyss is definitely a clear step up generally speaking.  The Utopia is pretty hard to beat when listening to acoustic, female vocals or small intimate music setting but the Abyss soundstage is fantastic.

Right now I’m listening from the XLR out from the TT2 which is a pretty big step up in terms of punch and power so I’m leaving single ended behind for now.  Again, the stock cable is very nice though the dual wire configuration is a bit annoying; it tends to get twisted up so I’ll have to deal with that.  I’ve currently settled on a Wywires Platinum cable using small adapters (LEMO to Abyss mini XLR) and it’s better IMHO than the stock cable in the mid range and at least equal in treble and bass.  I’m not seeing any great need to move to the superconductor but, never say never!  I’d want at least 8’ and $3000 just seems extremely high for what is not overwhelming improvement based on reviews.  I’d like to listen for myself at some point though.

My music taste is pretty eclectic so it’s probably not productive yet to get into descriptions, comparisons or specifics; I’ll do that on an ongoing basis as the headphones break in and the spirit moves me.  I will offer one comment on realism though: here’s the comment I made to @DJJEZ in a Private message.  Hope he gets his soon!

“I don’t normally get too deep in the weeds with descriptions, but I do have a “reference” cd for the realism test Which is Eva Cassidy “Live at Blues Alley”. Here’s a Wikipedia article that will frame it for you. So, how real was it? I could smell the stale beer and cigarettes and almost went to make myself a drink. Does that help?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_at_Blues_Alley”

Thanks for reading!


----------



## cangle

Gadget67 said:


> Eva Cassidy “Live at Blues Alley”


Glad you are enjoying your 1266. I really enjoy this album so thanks for the suggestion. I like the parts where she sings a little louder to the point of hearing her voice reflect off the walls of the room / club she's performing in. This album got me listening to more acoustic music and exploring jazz and folk albums that I haven't listened to in a little while. Here's some albums that I think sound great on the 1266:
Jazz at the Pawnshop vol. 1 - Arne Domnerus (Inspired a bit by the Abyss video posted yesterday)
South Front Street - Grayson Capps
Undercurrent - Sarah Jarosz
Pine Hollows (Live) - The Staves
The Sting Variations - Tierney Sutton
The Unity Session - Pat Metheny. Also Pat Metheny Unity band album is good (similar songs more of a live sound)


----------



## Solan (Jun 15, 2021)

number1sixerfan said:


> I think both things really are true. The Abyss definitely had a greater degree of realism than the Susvara, but I think most people are referring to how the mids and vocals are more prominent/forward in general on the Susvara than the TC.


I think so too. People somehow confuse accentuation with quality. I have a Grado RS-1, which is said to be best for female vocals. Why? Because those frequencies are enhanced. For my own sake, I find female voices and countertenors to be almost unbearable on my Grados, and much prefer to listen to females on darker headsets. The Grados are, however, excellent for male vocals, especially deep male vocals, which do not feature as many of the frequencies that are readily enhanced on the Grados.

I haven't listened to the Susvaras, but I suspect it's the same thing there: boosting the frequencies for female vocals compared to the 1266. Nothing more. It's like a bass head who confuses bass quality with bass amount. 

All that said, the 1266s ruined a recent favourite song of mine, _Lacrimosa_ by Zbigniew Preisner. It revealed a poor mixing where whoever was mixing was rather fast-handed on the volume controls. And after I had first heard it on the 1266, I spotted it on any other gear as well. They should mark the outside of that wooden box we are discussing with *Here Be Dragons!*


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Solan said:


> I think so too. People somehow confuse accentuation with quality. I have a Grado RS-1, which is said to be best for female vocals. Why? Because those frequencies are enhanced. For my own sake, I find female voices and countertenors to be almost unbearable on my Grados, and much prefer to listen to females on darker headsets. The Grados are, however, excellent for male vocals, especially deep male vocals, which do not feature as many of the frequencies that are readily enhanced on the Grados.
> 
> I haven't listened to the Susvaras, but I suspect it's the same thing there: boosting the frequencies for female vocals compared to the 1266. Nothing more. It's like a bass head who confuses bass quality with bass amount.
> 
> All that said, the 1266s ruined a recent favourite song of mine, _Lacrimosa_ by Zbigniew Preisner. It revealed a poor mixing where whoever was mixing was rather fast-handed on the volume controls. And after I had first heard it on the 1266, I spotted it on any other gear as well. They should mark the outside of that wooden box we are discussing with *Here Be Dragons!*



I also like to listen female voices, actually much more than male voice. I agree RS1 has that shouty problem. However, Susvara still the best to render female singer in my book, especially for medium-slow vocal songs like jazz and acoustic.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Solan said:


> I think so too. People somehow confuse accentuation with quality. I have a Grado RS-1, which is said to be best for female vocals. Why? Because those frequencies are enhanced. For my own sake, I find female voices and countertenors to be almost unbearable on my Grados, and much prefer to listen to females on darker headsets. The Grados are, however, excellent for male vocals, especially deep male vocals, which do not feature as many of the frequencies that are readily enhanced on the Grados.
> 
> I haven't listened to the Susvaras, but I suspect it's the same thing there: boosting the frequencies for female vocals compared to the 1266. Nothing more. It's like a bass head who confuses bass quality with bass amount.
> 
> All that said, the 1266s ruined a recent favourite song of mine, _Lacrimosa_ by Zbigniew Preisner. It revealed a poor mixing where whoever was mixing was rather fast-handed on the volume controls. And after I had first heard it on the 1266, I spotted it on any other gear as well. They should mark the outside of that wooden box we are discussing with *Here Be Dragons!*




Yea I would say that isn't the case. I have had both for quite a long time and know them really well. The vocals aren't over emphasized on the Susvara, they are just a bit underemphasized on the TC (mids in general). This is noticeable in comparison to the 009 and Sr1a I have as well. It's not a huge deal or dealbreaker, I simply turn the volume up a bit to compensate. Once I do that, the vocals on the TC are just absolutely amazing in comparison to any of them.


----------



## simorag (Jun 15, 2021)

Well recorded vocals actually sound very good with the TC, especially with the help of a great amp (and possibly tubes). Details, breathing, the mouth posture, the placement in the scene are second to none IMO.

The Susvara have a more fleshed out timbre, and a sligthly more forward presentation while retaining most of the technicalities of the TC, which make them more enjoyable and - to my ears - more realistic at the same time. They are also a bit more forgiving than the TC.

The SR1a have an extremely impressive vocals presentation, not only in terms of timbre but also when it comes to presence, as the body of the singer seems like a 3D sculpture in the empty space. Palpability is unique. The tone can be a bit lean but nothing that cannot be adapted to one's taste with some EQ and the right amp.

The Valkyria have a darker tonality than the Susvara, and an even more perceived sense of _there-there_ when listening to both female and male vocals, thus becoming my favorite vocals performer so far in terms of (subjective) trueness of timbre, weight and emotional connection.











​


----------



## zenlisten

Gadget67 said:


> Right now I’m listening from the XLR out from the TT2 which is a pretty big step up in terms of punch and power so I’m leaving single ended behind for now.


This was my initial impression but then Rob Watts told me to volume match it and listen again (the difference is 6dB), and boom, the big difference disappeared (although there is still some difference as the XLR outs are slightly less transparent). That's why I keep using the front panel jack. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Solan

simorag said:


> ​


Now, THIS was a treat! I'll soon check out your other suggestions too. Soon ... but not too soon. I have an exclusive date with Alexis Cole this evening.


----------



## Gadget67

zenlisten said:


> This was my initial impression but then Rob Watts told me to volume match it and listen again (the difference is 6dB), and boom, the big difference disappeared (although there is still some difference as the XLR outs are slightly less transparent). That's why I keep using the front panel jack. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


As you probably already know, there is ongoing debate about which is best to use and provides the “best” experience.  I went back and forth between front panel jacks and rear XLR’s with my Focal Utopia and, after volume match, concluded there was little to no difference between front and back.  At the moment, I don’t think thats the case with the Abyss 1266 but I haven’t done any extended comparisons either.  I’m keeping an open mind here, but I believe this particular headphone benefits from the 18W RMS in the rear vs 7.3W RMS in the front.  I’m not ready to go the headphone amp route with these just yet but @Orlok for example is a big fan of the Chord TTOBY using speaker taps to drive the Abyss.  Others will weigh in, I’m sure!


----------



## Gadget67

Solan said:


> Now, THIS was a treat! I'll soon check out your other suggestions too. Soon ... but not too soon. I have an exclusive date with Alexis Cole this evening.


Her album ‘Dazzling Blue” is also very nice!


----------



## mammal

@DJJEZ so my @lavricables arrived today! Sharing a picture and first impressions as promised.

I went with their TOTL "Grand" silver cable and upgraded Furutech and AECO connectors. As always, I buy cables mainly for ergonomics, and this is a HUGE upgrade over the stock cable. Worth mentioning is that I used to own Superconductor with Diana V2 and that cable wasn't as nice to the touch as this one (very soft, light and easy to handle). I will give it a couple of days for my brain to adjust to, and then write a review. But my first impressions are, that I noticed imaging has improved significantly. I did not expect that, to be honest with you. In Eric Prydz - Opus song, one that I know by heart now, there is this background (very quiet) sound in the first minute of the song that I did not hear with the stock cable. But with the new cable, I picked it up immediately, as if it was always there. Very strange - not sure if imaging or resolution is better. I have heard this song hundreds of times and already tried multiple times to critically listen to it, and never noticed it before. Going back to the stock cable, I do hear it there now, but I have to focus, as if it was smeared into the main piece. I am absolutely amazed, did not expect to hear that much of a difference (cables don't make a difference argument, right?). Lavricables folks offered to make me even thicker (8 gauge) cable, but that would be extra cash I did not want to pay, and would make the cable significantly stiffer, which again, would go against the original goal - comfort of use. I got myself 2.5m cable, as I sometimes listen close up (1m on my desk) but other times I take Bartok to the living room where I need 2m cable. I hated how stiff and heavy the stock cable was, so needed to replace that and I am VERY satisfied. A proper review coming soon.


----------



## eee1111

mammal said:


> @DJJEZ so my @lavricables arrived today! Sharing a picture and first impressions as promised.
> 
> I went with their TOTL "Grand" silver cable and upgraded Furutech and AECO connectors. As always, I buy cables mainly for ergonomics, and this is a HUGE upgrade over the stock cable. Worth mentioning is that I used to own Superconductor with Diana V2 and that cable wasn't as nice to the touch as this one (very soft, light and easy to handle). I will give it a couple of days for my brain to adjust to, and then write a review. But my first impressions are, that I noticed imaging has improved significantly. I did not expect that, to be honest with you. In Eric Prydz - Opus song, one that I know by heart now, there is this background (very quiet) sound in the first minute of the song that I did not hear with the stock cable. But with the new cable, I picked it up immediately, as if it was always there. Very strange - not sure if imaging or resolution is better. I have heard this song hundreds of times and already tried multiple times to critically listen to it, and never noticed it before. Going back to the stock cable, I do hear it there now, but I have to focus, as if it was smeared into the main piece. I am absolutely amazed, did not expect to hear that much of a difference (cables don't make a difference argument, right?). Lavricables folks offered to make me even thicker (8 gauge) cable, but that would be extra cash I did not want to pay, and would make the cable significantly stiffer, which again, would go against the original goal - comfort of use. I got myself 2.5m cable, as I sometimes listen close up (1m on my desk) but other times I take Bartok to the living room where I need 2m cable. I hated how stiff and heavy the stock cable was, so needed to replace that and I am VERY satisfied. A proper review coming soon.


How long was the wait?
I ordered one and they say 3-4 weeks but you just got one and I’m curious how long you waited


----------



## mammal

eee1111 said:


> How long was the wait?
> I ordered one and they say 3-4 weeks but you just got one and I’m curious how long you waited


I had been talking to them about this cable for 2-3 months now (as I wasn't sure about what length I will need and if I want their custom 8 gauge). But I ordered exactly on June 7th, they made the cable on June 8th, 150 hours of burn-in, and shipped it on 15th, and it arrived to my doorstep today, on 16th.

Not sure why they quoted you 3-4 weeks. Did you order burn-in? Are you a new or returning customer? I had ordered from them already in the past (twice in fact), so I wonder if that played a role. Best to ask them directly why 3-4 weeks, i found them to be very honest and upfront with me, so they most likely will tell you the real reason (maybe some connector shortage, what exact cable/model did you order?).


----------



## cangle

Has anyone compared the Norne Silvergarde S4 to the Lavricable Grand cable?


----------



## eee1111 (Jun 16, 2021)

mammal said:


> I had been talking to them about this cable for 2-3 months now (as I wasn't sure about what length I will need and if I want their custom 8 gauge). But I ordered exactly on June 7th, they made the cable on June 8th, 150 hours of burn-in, and shipped it on 15th, and it arrived to my doorstep today, on 16th.
> 
> Not sure why they quoted you 3-4 weeks. Did you order burn-in? Are you a new or returning customer? I had ordered from them already in the past (twice in fact), so I wonder if that played a role. Best to ask them directly why 3-4 weeks, i found them to be very honest and upfront with me, so they most likely will tell you the real reason (maybe some connector shortage, what exact cable/model did you order?).


I got the cheapest one. I like the bag. Ive seen it before. I just didn't feel like buying a better cable right now. I can do that later.

I asked a week before I ordered and got a 3-4 week answer.


----------



## mammal

eee1111 said:


> I got the cheapest one. I like the bag. Ive seen it before. I just didn't feel like buying a better cable right now. I can do that later.
> 
> I asked a week before I ordered and got a 3-4 week answer
> 
> Ill ask again. Maybe things are not set in stone.


Hard to say what kind of backlog they are dealing with at the moment and who they prioritise (more expensive cables first? I am just guessing). Do ask them and let us know!


----------



## drew911d (Jun 16, 2021)

It's been a while since I've gotten any new gear.  I now have a Riviera AIC-10 on the way from @F208Frank .  Very excited, it's the step I needed to take before upgrading TT2 to Dave, someday...

FWIW, I Do hear a difference using the TT2 rear XLR output.  I have been setting it 6 - 7 db lower since using the front jack and I still get bigger soundstage, tighter more controlled bass, etc.  Looking forward to having a TOTL amp on the road to Dave.


----------



## eee1111 (Jun 16, 2021)

mammal said:


> Hard to say what kind of backlog they are dealing with at the moment and who they prioritise (more expensive cables first? I am just guessing). Do ask them and let us know!


I read your first post wrong and thought that it was the better cable that came with the more expensive TC


im just passing the time waiting for my new 1266. And my illiteracy struck hard.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Recommended burn-in?


----------



## Orlok (Jun 17, 2021)

Gadget67 said:


> As you probably already know, there is ongoing debate about which is best to use and provides the “best” experience.  I went back and forth between front panel jacks and rear XLR’s with my Focal Utopia and, after volume match, concluded there was little to no difference between front and back.  At the moment, I don’t think thats the case with the Abyss 1266 but I haven’t done any extended comparisons either.  I’m keeping an open mind here, but I believe this particular headphone benefits from the 18W RMS in the rear vs 7.3W RMS in the front.  I’m not ready to go the headphone amp route with these just yet but @Orlok for example is a big fan of the Chord TTOBY using speaker taps to drive the Abyss.  Others will weigh in, I’m sure!


First of all, congrats on finally receiving your AB-1266 TC! Not spending as much time as I used to here. Got a lot of other things going on and I decided I'm totally set and happy with what I have so I've kind of lost interest in even looking at any other gear. Haha. Planning another RV trip up the CA coast right now.

Yes, huge fan of using the TToby's speaker taps driving the TC. I've done extensive comparisons with the TC through the SE front-end, the XLR outs in the rear and the TToby and, to me, there is simply no comparison: the TToby wins by a _huge_ margin. And I know I'm not only one who has said this - @Mh996 has reported results that seem to mirror mine with the TToby.

Major heatwave rolling through southwest US right now so I've been spending time listening through my Buchardt S400 speakers the past few days. Even with the AC going, the heat made HP listening less than pleasurable. This is the first time I've listened with speakers in several months since I got the TC and, I must say, it was a very refreshing experience. The S400s are amazing.

This being said, it cooled off today so I went back to the TC and it put a big smile back on my face. It's way different and HP listening will never quite equal the soundstage and imaging that speakers provide but it provides a level of detail and a sense of immersion that speakers can't either - unless they were some $100K+ type of systems and I've heard some of those so I doubt even they can match the TC in that regard.

I also decided to try the HD800S through the TT2's SE HP output today. It's one of the two that I passed on to my sons. My younger son is a budding audiophile but my older son doesn't really seem to care. He's away on some vacation trip with his friends and noticed that his HD800S had the cable tied up in a small bunch in a corner of his room. He hasn't been using it at all. I just rolled my eyes and thought, "Okay, so you are not meant to be an audiophile even if I give you a $1700 HP to start out with. Oh well, I tried..." Haha

Anyway, I tried it through the TT2 for the first time and, I have to say, compared to the TC with the TToby, it sounds really small - I mean, claustrophobic small. The HD800S is known as the "king" of soundstage and it felt like listening in a tiny cramped room. I don't mean to diss the HD800S as it really is a fine HP but it was so badly outclassed by the TC through the TToby that I was actually quite surprised by the magnitude of the difference. Well, it only reaffirmed how huge, clear and transparent the TC sounds through my setup. It works for me so I'm just not going to look any further.


----------



## F208Frank (Jun 17, 2021)

drew911d said:


> It's been a while since I've gotten any new gear.  I now have a Riviera AIC-10 on the way from @F208Frank .  Very excited, it's the step I needed to take before upgrading TT2 to Dave, someday...
> 
> FWIW, I Do hear a difference using the TT2 rear XLR output.  I have been setting it 6 - 7 db lower since using the front jack and I still get bigger soundstage, tighter more controlled bass, etc.  Looking forward to having a TOTL amp on the road to Dave.


Regarding the Dave upgrade, mine is actually going to be sold in future. Just receive the AIC 10 1st (coming this friday) be satisfied for a good while (when I say good while I mean GOOD long while) and when ready ping me again.

It was probably meant to be as I accidentally sent you my DAVE remote within the AIC 10 package.

*shrugs*


----------



## mammal

For anyone who would like to upgrade their stock cable for something better, but do not wish to pay for Superconductor, have a look at my review of Lavricables Grand here. (yes, I used to own Superconductor for Diana V2, but chose Lavricables for AB-1266 instead). Hope this helps someone!


----------



## drew911d

Doh!  I hope the Riviera remote is in there.  At least I believe the Riviera should have a remote.

It will be a while, maybe 6 months-ish...  Have to pay off credit card first.


----------



## jlbrach

Sajid Amit said:


> Recommended burn-in?


wow, look at you...let nobody say you arent open to new things


----------



## drew911d (Jun 17, 2021)

Sajid Amit said:


> Recommended burn-in?


I recommend you get them, plug them in and start enjoying them right away.  In between your listening sessions you can do burn in.  It's wonderful to experience first hand how these "mature", like a fine wine, within hours of listening and burn in in the first 150 hours.

They completely transform.  Open to a scale so exciting to see.  It's like watching new life come into maturity.

Really, don't worry about burn in.  Just enjoy them and see your baby go from first steps to adulthood.

Oh, at first these will sound like something is coming from a small area from the drivers.  It's about all the talk about having them perfectly aligned and adjusted is coming from.  After using them 200+ hours the drivers open up so much the sound is easy and smooth.  Adjustments, to my ears, make so much smaller results.  It becomes so easy to get wonderful results.  They are so open, no matter how you adjust them.  They become so easy to always get great sound, with the the adjustments being a small, but taylorable, adjustment to get the bass and spaciousness you desire.  So great


----------



## Gadget67

drew911d said:


> I recommend you get them, plug them in and start enjoying them right away.  In between your listening sessions you can do burn in.  It's wonderful to experience first hand how these "mature", like a fine wine, within hours of listening and burn in in the first 150 hours.
> 
> They completely transform.  Open to a scale so exciting to see.  It's like watching new life come into maturity.
> 
> ...


So, what is the difference (if any) between burn in and just listening to headphones for the recommended burn in time?  I’m not downplaying (see what I did there) burn in and I assume it’s just a way to break in headphones more quickly.  Otherwise I’m guessing 150 hours of listening time equals 150 hours of burn in.


----------



## mammal

Gadget67 said:


> So, what is the difference (if any) between burn in and just listening to headphones for the recommended burn in time?


When I got my Diana V2 (I know I am in AB-1266 thread) it sounded off from the demo I had at the time. So I was listening to it normally and when I went to bed, I continued playing songs through them. At around 3 days in of non stop playing, they sounded very close to the demo. Someone told me I could have been playing white/ping noise instead (while asleep) as that would include all frequencies better and burn in the cable faster/better. I am not sure if this is true, but I think just regular use is fine, but if you want to fast forward, let them play during nights.


----------



## Sajid Amit

jlbrach said:


> wow, look at you...let nobody say you arent open to new things


Haha, yes.

Always open to new experiences, my friend.


----------



## marcus2704

I have received my TCs, but I have not had a chance to sit down with them yet.

These headphones look insane, like something Jigsaw would come up with from the Saw movies..!  

I will need some way to tame the very long superconductor XLR cable as I sit only 1 meter from my headamp/DAC.


----------



## mammal

marcus2704 said:


> I will need some way to tame the very long superconductor XLR cable as I sit only 1 meter from my headamp/DAC.


Velcro or a sticky tape (that you can remove later).


----------



## Gadget67

marcus2704 said:


> I have received my TCs, but I have not had a chance to sit down with them yet.
> 
> These headphones look insane, like something Jigsaw would come up with from the Saw movies..!
> 
> I will need some way to tame the very long superconductor XLR cable as I sit only 1 meter from my headamp/DAC.


Someone recommended this cord covering from Amazon—here’s a link.  Honestly, I can’t understand why they made it that way and I agree it’s inconvenient.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FW5H57B/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_8?smid=A2N7NRZ9X3BHHN&psc=1


----------



## littlej0e

mammal said:


> Velcro or a sticky tape (that you can remove later).


This man is a damn genius. Buy a roll of Velcro. I can't even count the number of times it has come in handy in my audio setup, general nerdery, fix-it stuff around the house, TV cable mgmt., Christmas light cable mgmt., etc. etc.


----------



## Gadget67

littlej0e said:


> This man is a damn genius. Buy a roll of Velcro. I can't even count the number of times it has come in handy in my audio setup, general nerdery, fix-it stuff around the house, TV cable mgmt., Christmas light cable mgmt., etc. etc.


Totally agree here.  I have a roll that is fairly wide (about 2”) and I can cut it for various uses.  I really think it’s too stiff for the stock cable though.


----------



## cangle

Does anyone know what the default o-ring size is for the stock 1266 headband? When they arrived I went straight to 216 out of my o-ring kit I had purchased. Now I am on 214 as I have gotten used to how to fit them and don't need as much o-ring flex as I initially thought. I think it might be 213 but don't want to use a size less than stock.


----------



## mammal

mammal said:


> For anyone who would like to upgrade their stock cable for something better, but do not wish to pay for Superconductor, have a look at my review of Lavricables Grand here. (yes, I used to own Superconductor for Diana V2, but chose Lavricables for AB-1266 instead). Hope this helps someone!


So, just ordered DHC Complement C cable for AB-1266, planning to compare it Lavricables Grand. So that we have a shootout of $600 cables, copper vs silver, haha.


----------



## Solan

mammal said:


> So, just ordered DHC Complement C cable for AB-1266, planning to compare it Lavricables Grand. So that we have a shootout of $600 cables, copper vs silver, haha.


Let us know which music styles are best with which cables. There's probably not going to be an overall winner that takes all genres. Never is in our hobby, it seems.


----------



## mammal

Solan said:


> Let us know which music styles are best with which cables. There's probably not going to be an overall winner that takes all genres. Never is in our hobby, it seems.


Exactly my thinking. I am not after the best here, just something that fits my listening expectations. Right now, I listen to 70% EDM without vocals, 25% with vocals and the rest is random stuff, from rock to metal. Lavricables are to my ears +4 (ergonomics, resolution, staging, mids) and -1 (bass) so +3 improvement. But the priority of these attributes for me is “unchanged tonality” > ergonomics > resolution > mids > staging. I wish Lavricables did not change the lower end register as much as they do (by uplifting mids), hence my 4.5* review and not 5. I hope to see DHC to solve this issue, which it should, after speaking with Peter who also listens to EDM mainly.


----------



## marcus2704

Re the fit, should the seam on the pads be facing (approximately) towards the headband?  If so, as I look at mine it would be 1 o'clock and 11 o'clock.  

I read that there needs to be a gap, well I wouldn't say mine clamp my head exactly, but they feel flush to my head nonetheless, is this against recommendation?


----------



## Solan

marcus2704 said:


> I read that there needs to be a gap, well I wouldn't say mine clamp my head exactly, but they feel flush to my head nonetheless, is this against recommendation?


I had a BIG reveal on that yesterday! I had been somewhat sub-impressed by the bass of my 1266, and was starting to wonder if I had gotten a "monday product". And I had an audiophile friend over, and he said they were great at resolution and reality and all that, but they were a bit lacking in the bass department. So when he went home, I pondered this, and I remembered something Joshua Valor had said about DMS bending the frame out for him. Well, my friend has an even bigger head than I do, so I tried, and BAM there's the bass! That was quite late yesterday, so I haven't gone much past the initial discovery that the opening at the bottom -- a _real_ opening -- is essential.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Solan said:


> I had a BIG reveal on that yesterday! I had been somewhat sub-impressed by the bass of my 1266, and was starting to wonder if I had gotten a "monday product". And I had an audiophile friend over, and he said they were great at resolution and reality and all that, but they were a bit lacking in the bass department. So when he went home, I pondered this, and I remembered something Joshua Valor had said about DMS bending the frame out for him. Well, my friend has an even bigger head than I do, so I tried, and BAM there's the bass! That was quite late yesterday, so I haven't gone much past the initial discovery that the opening at the bottom -- a _real_ opening -- is essential.


Bending out the frame? How hard / easy was it? I have a large-ass noggin' and I still get bass from my TC, enormous amounts, but interesting you had to bend out the frame.


----------



## Solan (Jun 19, 2021)

Sajid Amit said:


> Bending out the frame? How hard / easy was it? I have a large-ass noggin' and I still get bass from my TC, enormous amounts, but interesting you had to bend out the frame.


Quite easy. Just grip on the same side of the top screw so you don't compromise it. The key was to get a large enough opening as opposed to a seal. I guess you already have that opening. Head size: When the 1266 were fresh, very recently, they clamped my head to the point of discomfort, even when slid out to the max. So I bent them out a little bit then until they were comfortable. But for bass, even a bit more bending was needed. The track where it made a huge difference was this, btw:


----------



## mammal

Sajid Amit said:


> Bending out the frame? How hard / easy was it? I have a large-ass noggin' and I still get bass from my TC, enormous amounts, but interesting you had to bend out the frame.


Check out Abyss Youtube setup videos (first and second), where Joe showcases it.


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> Check out Abyss Youtube setup videos (first and second), where Joe showcases it.


I second that; the videos were very helpful.


----------



## jlbrach

Sajid Amit said:


> Bending out the frame? How hard / easy was it? I have a large-ass noggin' and I still get bass from my TC, enormous amounts, but interesting you had to bend out the frame.


it takes a bit of effort but isnt all that difficult,there are videos out there showing to best do it...


----------



## nrbatista

Sajid Amit said:


> Bending out the frame? How hard / easy was it? I have a large-ass noggin' and I still get bass from my TC, enormous amounts, but interesting you had to bend out the frame.



Here’s the video where you can see it.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Can any of you recommend EQ profiles for the TC, to adjust the balance between its bass, midrange and treble? I would like to see if there are others who EQ to bring the midrange forward relative to the bass and the treble.


----------



## mammal

Sajid Amit said:


> Can any of you recommend EQ profiles for the TC, to adjust the balance between its bass, midrange and treble? I would like to see if there are others who EQ to bring the midrange forward relative to the bass and the treble.


You could get Lavricables Grand (like you have for your Susvara) which kinda achieves this. Or splurge for Superconductor cable that goes above and beyond when it comes to mids. Obviously, EQ will be cheaper, haha.


----------



## Vanheim

Short listen mini-pressions:
I've always been enamoured by the unique and agreeably polarizing design of the Abyss AB-1266 models from the very first time I looked at pictures of them online. Something about them screamed unashamed pride of standing out from the rest both in looks and from what I had read, and now having heard them myself, sound. These were very comfortable for me to wear for over an hour and I am very picky about comfort. Couldn't stand the ZMF Ori and struggle with even the ZMF Atticus.

@Sajid Amit  kindly invited me over to try his newest bad boys out since he knew I have been daydreaming about these for a long time now.

They were driven off of the speaker outs of the Accuphase and source was the legendary May Holo using Roon. In this set up, and from my admittedly brief hour of listening, these are everything I had hoped for in my dream cans and much much more. I have heard the Susvara a couple of times before too and these were much much much more suited to my preferences than the hifimans. The physicality. The dynamism. And the breathtaking gentleness of surrounding you with micro details and texture. And these do sound very different depending on how you rotate the pads, tighten headband and position them on your head(closer or further from the ears). I set them so there was less treble energy and not crazy sub bass but enough to satisfy a closet basshead such as myself. The mids shined through as a result. Maybe it was due to the holo dac or the Accuphase, I don't know, but I do know that the liquidity of the mids had me so lost into the music that I forgot about everything else for the duration while listening to them.

Liquid and velvety yet unapologetic in it's impactfulness is how I'd describe their sound. It didn't feel like it was just music. There was something more powering through it. Giving it more life. No strings and acoustic instruments did not sound as real and godly as they did on the Susvara, but it wasn't that far behind the bar of uncompromising satisfaction and pleasure to these ears. Natural is not a word I'd use to describe them. But it's breathtakingly fun, but yet so refined and TOTL that I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything, actually feels like I'm getting *more* then real life natural sound could give me. Yes, if you can't tell by now, I'm in love with them. 

Obviously these are VERY raw and short listening impressions. My thoughts on these beasts may very well change with more listening sessions. 

Wishing you all a very good day/night!


----------



## mammal

Vanheim said:


> Short listen mini-pressions:
> I've always been enamoured by the unique and agreeably polarizing design of the Abyss AB-1266 models from the very first time I looked at pictures of them online. Something about them screamed unashamed pride of standing out from the rest both in looks and from what I had read, and now having heard them myself, sound. These were very comfortable for me to wear for over an hour and I am very picky about comfort. Couldn't stand the ZMF Ori and struggle with even the ZMF Atticus.
> 
> @Sajid Amit  kindly invited me over to try his newest bad boys out since he knew I have been daydreaming about these for a long time now.
> ...


You look VERY happy in those photos, that’s what this hobby should be about!


----------



## Solan

mammal said:


> You could get Lavricables Grand (like you have for your Susvara) which kinda achieves this. Or splurge for Superconductor cable that goes above and beyond when it comes to mids. Obviously, EQ will be cheaper, haha.


I am pondering alternative cabling or added cabling as well. One thing is listening to music. Usually short distance to source. But then there's TV after the family's gone to bed. 5m or so required. Should I extend, or should I have a plain long 5m? Or should I just use my old Denons for that purpose?

It's intriguing to see discussions of cabling especially wrt the 1266, since the same people who make them also make top-tier cables and have a more or less "insiderish" grab at the lead there. But I'm not financially positioned to buy a load of different ones and test, so I'll be following yours and others' experiences here. As I'm writing this, I'm running 1266 out of a goddamn Mac Powerbook as I am grading exams, and even then I am pleased as punch! I have better amping, but not near my "grading station". Anyway, big future decisions will have to wait until 1) I have gotten familiar with them with what I have, 2) I understand what the rest of you have written, and 3) my bank account no longer looks at me with that accusatory stare. 

Might be that dac comes ahead of cabling as next upgrade. Or even amp, or some tubey preamp stuff. Dunno. But waiting and learning seldom hurts at this price point, and I learn a lot here and by listening to totl at YouTube (and pestering them with my questions).


----------



## Solan

mammal said:


> You look VERY happy in those photos, that’s what this hobby should be about!


He *does*! And don't we all? To me, this is like having been in love with a beautiful woman online for half a year and then finally meeting her to see that she was even more beautiful! ... and then going to bed with her!  And at that sexist but true comment I step silently out the back door and won't disturb you any more today.


----------



## mammal

Solan said:


> I am pondering alternative cabling or added cabling as well. One thing is listening to music. Usually short distance to source. But then there's TV after the family's gone to bed. 5m or so required. Should I extend, or should I have a plain long 5m? Or should I just use my old Denons for that purpose?


TLDR: Life is short, so cables have to be long.

You really don’t want to be listening to anything else than your TOTL gear every second you can. I know others will have listening room / bedroom / living room setups, with a different level of gear “investment” and I am the crazy one who literally carries 16kg equipment from room to room. But I am a firm believer you shoud enjoy your toys, as much as time allows. For that, I got myself a long-ish cable (2.5m) instead of a 1m that would suffice for office listening. Lavricables (compared to the stock cable) is very soft and easy to roll into a circle, so no problem having it as long as you need it to be. And then when you are ready for the living room, you just roll it out and use that way. For some TOTL cables every meter doubles the price, so I get why you wouldn’t want 5m of Superconductor or Prion4 cable, in that case you could have a cheaper long cable and then a main TOTL cable for a short run. That way, you are at least listening to AB-1266 all the time, instead of your old Denons, haha. But that’s just my take on it.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

mammal said:


> TLDR: Life is short, so cables have to be long.
> 
> You really don’t want to be listening to anything else than your TOTL gear every second you can. I know others will have listening room / bedroom / living room setups, with a different level of gear “investment” and I am the crazy one who literally carries 16kg equipment from room to room. But I am a firm believer you shoud enjoy your toys, as much as time allows. For that, I got myself a long-ish cable (2.5m) instead of a 1m that would suffice for office listening. Lavricables (compared to the stock cable) is very soft and easy to roll into a circle, so no problem having it as long as you need it to be. And then when you are ready for the living room, you just roll it out and use that way. For some TOTL cables every meter doubles the price, so I get why you wouldn’t want 5m of Superconductor or Prion4 cable, in that case you could have a cheaper long cable and then a main TOTL cable for a short run. That way, you are at least listening to AB-1266 all the time, instead of your old Denons, haha. But that’s just my take on it.


I find that using my cable with a quality extension cable like the moon audio silver dragon with furutech plugs the best solution.


----------



## attmci

Sajid Amit said:


> Can any of you recommend EQ profiles for the TC, to adjust the balance between its bass, midrange and treble? I would like to see if there are others who EQ to bring the midrange forward relative to the bass and the treble.


Amarra Luxe?


----------



## Roasty

Sajid Amit said:


> Can any of you recommend EQ profiles for the TC, to adjust the balance between its bass, midrange and treble? I would like to see if there are others who EQ to bring the midrange forward relative to the bass and the treble.



Try this. It's pretty good. Another friend of mine is using it and quite likes it too. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-15513121

Otherwise, I found that first adjusting the pads to the tightest bass, and then moving it them one notch forward to increase the bass slightly (9 and 3 o'clock position for me), and finally angling the frame so there is a bit of rest of the pads on the temples and tilting the headphones so that the headband rests on my head a bit more forward on my head seems to solve the problem of echoey highs and mids quite well.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Roasty said:


> Try this. It's pretty good. Another friend of mine is using it and quite likes it too.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-15513121
> 
> Otherwise, I found that first adjusting the pads to the tightest bass, and then moving it them one notch forward to increase the bass slightly (9 and 3 o'clock position for me), and finally angling the frame so there is a bit of rest of the pads on the temples and tilting the headphones so that the headband rests on my head a bit more forward on my head seems to solve the problem of echoey highs and mids quite well.


Thanks man. Giving it a go.


----------



## Solan

Roasty said:


> Try this. It's pretty good. Another friend of mine is using it and quite likes it too.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-15513121
> 
> Otherwise, I found that first adjusting the pads to the tightest bass, and then moving it them one notch forward to increase the bass slightly (9 and 3 o'clock position for me), and finally angling the frame so there is a bit of rest of the pads on the temples and tilting the headphones so that the headband rests on my head a bit more forward on my head seems to solve the problem of echoey highs and mids quite well.


Thank you. The clock positions depend a lot on your own head shape. A cone head would have almost the reverse need of a wannabe alien like myself, for instance.

Then there's also @mammal s experiments in cabling, and which coloration your sources give to the signal.


----------



## mammal

Any AB-1266 owner with Viva Egoista 845 tube amp? It is very difficult (if not impossible) for me to demo Woo Audio WA33 (either version/edition), nor Riviera AIC/AFC-10 here. But managed to convince a dealer to give me Egoista loaner to pair with Bartok for 2-3 weeks, awaiting its availability now. I know Abyss has said in one of their Youtube videos that they do not recommend this amp due its "manual warmup procedure", and I know that there have been cases of AB-1266 drivers failures and I asked Viva about what happened and they told me their side of the story. Anyway, will do my best to be ultra careful operating the amp. So my question is, anyone rocking this setup?


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> Any AB-1266 owner with Viva Egoista 845 tube amp? It is very difficult (if not impossible) for me to demo Woo Audio WA33 (either version/edition), nor Riviera AIC/AFC-10 here. But managed to convince a dealer to give me Egoista loaner to pair with Bartok for 2-3 weeks, awaiting its availability now. I know Abyss has said in one of their Youtube videos that they do not recommend this amp due its "manual warmup procedure", and I know that there have been cases of AB-1266 drivers failures and I asked Viva about what happened and they told me their side of the story. Anyway, will do my best to be ultra careful operating the amp. So my question is, anyone rocking this setup?


I thought you were on a budget!


----------



## mammal

Gadget67 said:


> I thought you were on a budget!


----------



## DJJEZ

Only $14K for that amp


----------



## llamaluv

mammal said:


> Any AB-1266 owner with Viva Egoista 845 tube amp?


I auditioned the Egoista seriously with the Abyss Phi at the local dealer on two occasions. I compared it side-by-side with the WA33, interestingly enough. I liked both equally. I couldn't _quite_ convince myself to part with the cash for the Egoista, but did leave the store with the WA33.

This was a couple years ago, so I unfortunately don't have much useful to say beyond that. But the Egoista was super-dynamic, full-bodied, and probably a little more neutral (both with their respective stock tubes). I'd be lying if I said I don't sometimes wonder what-might-have-been...


----------



## Frankie D

mammal said:


> Any AB-1266 owner with Viva Egoista 845 tube amp? It is very difficult (if not impossible) for me to demo Woo Audio WA33 (either version/edition), nor Riviera AIC/AFC-10 here. But managed to convince a dealer to give me Egoista loaner to pair with Bartok for 2-3 weeks, awaiting its availability now. I know Abyss has said in one of their Youtube videos that they do not recommend this amp due its "manual warmup procedure", and I know that there have been cases of AB-1266 drivers failures and I asked Viva about what happened and they told me their side of the story. Anyway, will do my best to be ultra careful operating the amp. So my question is, anyone rocking this setup?


I think you may just end up purchasing the Viva.  I run Viva electronics on my 2-channel system.  To turn on the amps you first click the power switch down for 3 minutes, then flip it all the way up.  This is a pain, but once you are used to it, no big deal.  On Conrad Johnson tube equipment, after you press power on, they use a circuit to warm up the amp first before it turns on to protect it.  With Viva if you do not warm it up first you will blow a fuse at a minimum.  

On the plus side, Viva is not really tube sensitive and no biasing is ever needed.  After burn in it will just keep sounding beautiful without needing new tubes, etc.  And the hallmark of Viva sound is tight bass with a lifelike midrange.  The Mark 2 version of the 845 has balanced outputs, so hopefully that is what he will send to you.  Please me know how it sounds.


----------



## mammal

llamaluv said:


> I compared it side-by-side with the WA33, interestingly enough. I liked both equally. I couldn't _quite_ convince myself to part with the cash for the Egoista, but did leave the store with the WA33.


Thank you for comparing WA33 (I presume Standard edition, without JPS wiring, with stock tubes) against Egoista.



llamaluv said:


> I'd be lying if I said I don't sometimes wonder what-might-have-been...


Exactly my issue (I guess everyone's). What I dislike about WA33 is how many editions they have (effective combinations of Standard/Elite, with/without JPS, upgraded tubes). Where as with Riviera AIC/AFC-10 and Viva Egoista 845 you are kinda already there, having their "best" offering. I like that simplicity, puts my mind at ease. People do tube roll these two as well of course, but seems to be less talk about "you need to upgrade tubes in order to hear WA33 at its best".



Frankie D said:


> To turn on the amps you first click the power switch down for 3 minutes, then flip it all the way up. This is a pain, but once you are used to it, no big deal.


It just feels scary, my mind goes - what if I make a mistake and blow up how of my town? Aren't those tubes uranium rods? Wait a sec, this isn't McIntosh amp (glows green), haha.



Frankie D said:


> On the plus side, Viva is not really tube sensitive and no biasing is ever needed. After burn in it will just keep sounding beautiful without needing new tubes, etc.


Exactly what I am after. Hoping not to be tube rolling, or needing to maintain quad matched tubes for my amp to sound best.



Frankie D said:


> The Mark 2 version of the 845 has balanced outputs, so hopefully that is what he will send to you. Please me know how it sounds.


I should be getting Mark 2 version with (unbalanced) XLRs, so at least I not need to re-cable my headphones.



Frankie D said:


> And the hallmark of Viva sound is tight bass with a lifelike midrange.


I am hoping for tight, punchy bass, instead of slow relaxed one. As for midrange, I wish to get one that does not "fix AB-1266 TC" like many say Superconductor cable does. I like my mids to be behind bass/treble, so that EDM feels aggressive and punchy. Once I get the amp, I will review it for you all (comparing to SS in Bartok).



DJJEZ said:


> Only $14K for that amp


Hoping that I do not like what I hear, haha, but let's see. I am not upgrading for sake of upgrading - you may remember that I had M Scaler, heard very little (and what I heard was not what I liked for EMD) and decided not to buy it. I am just incredibly lucky to be able to audition higher end gear at home for 2-3 weeks before I make a purchase. This way, you also know that I am not liking it just because I bought it, haha. Sure, I have biases like anyone else, but at least not "buyers remorse / rationalization".

To all reading - none of this is to say WA33 or AIC-10 aren't good amps. It's just buying blindly this level of gear is a big no-no for me, plus a local warranty where I can physically bring back the amp is important to me. And Riviera's dealers are ignoring my e-mail, so I guess I won't be trying that.


----------



## simorag

mammal said:


> Thank you for comparing WA33 (I presume Standard edition, without JPS wiring, with stock tubes) against Egoista.
> 
> 
> Exactly my issue (I guess everyone's). What I dislike about WA33 is how many editions they have (effective combinations of Standard/Elite, with/without JPS, upgraded tubes). Where as with Riviera AIC/AFC-10 and Viva Egoista 845 you are kinda already there, having their "best" offering. I like that simplicity, puts my mind at ease. People do tube roll these two as well of course, but seems to be less talk about "you need to upgrade tubes in order to hear WA33 at its best".
> ...



I listened to both the Egoista and the Solista multiple times, and they are both great amps. I liked the Solista more with the TC and MUCH more with the Susvara as I found it even more liquid, refined and theatrical. ViVa 845 amps are relatively un-tubey, as they have a very clear, tight and transparent sound, with no apparent colorations at all. They sound very big and holographic, and have speed and dynamics to spare, with no hints of treble roll-off or midrange edulcoration.

Based on the preferences that you express above, and also reading your positive review of the Lavricables Grand, and finally based on your musical preferences (all of which do not align with my own) I am pretty sure that the Viva 845 amps are sonically more suited to your objectives than the AIC-10 (never had the chance of trying the WA33).

The AIC-10 has a similar effect than the Superconductor, as it provides some bloom, relaxation and midrange weight / presence / sweetness, trading off some punch and attack viscerality (the amount of which depends on the tube you choose).

Enjoy your at-home trial of the Viva and please report back! (and make sure your air conditioning works fine in the preparation  )


----------



## mammal

simorag said:


> Enjoy your at-home trial of the Viva and please report back! (and make sure your air conditioning works fine in the preparation  )


That is definitely a minus for both Egoista 845 and WA33, as I read they both run HOT, haha. I guess I don't need a sauna anymore, anyone else listens naked?  



simorag said:


> I listened to both the Egoista and the Solista multiple times, and they are both great amps.


I did read your amazing review (and recommend others do the same).



simorag said:


> The AIC-10 has a similar effect than the Superconductor, as it provides some bloom, relaxation and midrange weight / presence / sweetness, trading off some punch and attack viscerality (the amount of which depends on the tube you choose).


Thank you for putting my mind at ease - I have been trying hard to convince dealers to allow me to demo Riviera, but they are just mean to me on emails.


----------



## ajaipuriyar

Frankie D said:


> To turn on the amps you first click the power switch down for 3 minutes, then flip it all the way up. This is a pain, but once you are used to it, no big deal. On Conrad Johnson tube equipment, after you press power on, they use a circuit to warm up the amp first before it turns on to protect it. With Viva if you do not warm it up first you will blow a fuse at a minimum.



I have been flipping the switch up directly on my Solista MK3 without the warmup procedure and I've never had a problem.

Maybe they built some circuit protection for careless ( and impatient) users like me in the newer revised models.


----------



## marcus2704

Have sat down with the Abyss AB-1266 TCs, in particular with my choice music genre, hip-hop.   Holy crap these are good aren't they.  Everything is just so crisp, the rumbling low-end makes music so much more exciting.  My initial testing was with a selection of rock classics (Fleetwood Mac, INXS) and the instant feeling was that I have heard a lot of headphones along my journey, but none so far can match the Abyss.  I have Susvara headphones also which I intended to keep to compliment the Abyss, but right now I am struggling to think of time I would reach for the Susvaras over these.  That said I will do some A-B listening and decide where I go from there.


----------



## mammal

Am I the only one who noticed that Abyss in one of their YouTube videos hinted on a new headphone they are working on? They acknowledged the IEM, as well as the Closed back, but apparently there is "the big guy" as papa Joe refers to it. What could that be? Their new TOTL offering (not AB-1266 revision, but completely new headphone?).


----------



## Frankie D

ajaipuriyar said:


> I have been flipping the switch up directly on my Solista MK3 without the warmup procedure and I've never had a problem.
> 
> Maybe they built some circuit protection for careless ( and impatient) users like me in the newer revised models.


I would check with Viva directly on that question.  I bought my Viva Auroras years ago and had been telling him that.  Tks.


----------



## mammal

Frankie D said:


> I would check with Viva directly on that question.


I just sent them an email, asking what will happen if I don't warm up those tubes first, will a fuse blow or something worse, let's see what they reply.


----------



## Solan

mammal said:


> Am I the only one who noticed that Abyss in one of their YouTube videos hinted on a new headphone they are working on? They acknowledged the IEM, as well as the Closed back, but apparently there is "the big guy" as papa Joe refers to it. What could that be? Their new TOTL offering (not AB-1266 revision, but completely new headphone?).


That made me curious too. It seems to have been shelved for a few years, from the way he said it, but still not a dead project. But what could be a "*BIG* guy" next to the 1266, the Hum-Vee of headphones?


----------



## mammal

Solan said:


> But what could be a "*BIG* guy" next to the 1266, the Hum-Vee of headphones?


A portable AB-1266, where you carry a battery powered DAC/AMP on your back.


----------



## Solan

mammal said:


> A portable AB-1266, where you carry a battery powered DAC/AMP on your back.


Oh, temptation! Maybe the Woo Audio Wa8, then?

I'm not a loud-volume guy, so the 1266 sound pretty good out of the Lootoo PAW Gold already. I'm tempted to take the combo for a walk through town one day.


----------



## marcus2704

Not that any of you need convincing of this, but I am floored by the TC, it is really a phenomenal headphone.


----------



## TDinCali

Solan said:


> Oh, temptation! Maybe the Woo Audio Wa8, then?
> 
> I'm not a loud-volume guy, so the 1266 sound pretty good out of the Lootoo PAW Gold already. I'm tempted to take the combo for a walk through town one day.


My wife literally bursts out laughing every time she see's me wearing the 1266. I’ve threatened to wear them in public with her to which she referred to me as my “special husband”.


----------



## Polygonhell

mammal said:


> you need to upgrade tubes in order to hear WA33 at its best


I'm not sure how true this really is.
The only tube I'd roll immediately on a WA33 is the rectifier, put at least an NOS RCA 5U4G (about $70) in it.
Better 2A3's will improve resolution and clarity to a point (and I have swapped mine), but the stock tubes aren't bad.
The input tubes aren't worth messing with IME.

The only "knock" I have on the WA33 is it isn't a SET amp, and that's more about preference.
Balanced tube amps cancel a lot of the 2nd harmonic distortion so you don't get a lot of mid range bloom with it.
It still sounds like a tube amp, but it's very much on the dryer side.

Those qualities are going to be broadly the same across all the variants, I'd like to hear an EE, but I'm happy with my standard version. I generally use it in preference to my original Cavalli Liquid Gold.

As an aside does anyone know what the gain switch actually does on the WA33, I asked Woo and got the following none answer


> The way we implemented the HI and LO level output is very different from other amplifiers, it does not impact the sound quality.


I can guess at what that means, but I'd like confirmation.


----------



## paradoxper

mammal said:


> Am I the only one who noticed that Abyss in one of their YouTube videos hinted on a new headphone they are working on? They acknowledged the IEM, as well as the Closed back, but apparently there is "the big guy" as papa Joe refers to it. What could that be? Their new TOTL offering (not AB-1266 revision, but completely new headphone?).


The big guy that didn't actually work at that time. Before the world shut down and they played catch-up with order fulfillment while putting a focus on the closed-back and planning the future for IEMs. I'll go with the big guy is a big miss but tried through development.


----------



## littlej0e (Jun 22, 2021)

TDinCali said:


> My wife literally bursts out laughing every time she see's me wearing the 1266. I’ve threatened to wear them in public with her to which she referred to me as my “special husband”.



If you think the 1266s are bad, you should try wearing the SR1a's. My wife calls them the "Tie Fighters" and giggles incessantly whenever she sees me wearing them. Then typically asks, "how are the nerd-phones sounding, _nerd_?!?". God, I love this woman...


----------



## Gadget67

TDinCali said:


> My wife literally bursts out laughing every time she see's me wearing the 1266. I’ve threatened to wear them in public with her to which she referred to me as my “special husband”.





littlej0e said:


> If you think the 1266s are bad, you should try wearing the SR1a's. My wife calls them the "Tie Fighters" and giggles incessantly whenever she sees me wearing them. Then typically asks, "how's are the nerd-phones sounding, _nerd_?!?". God, I love this woman...


Let me add to the wife support.  I “mentioned” I might buy the Super Conductor cable and her response was “of course you should; it‘s like buying fine china and needing the silverware to go with it.”  Hand to God…almost fell off the couch…


----------



## Sajid Amit

Off topic, but maybe not entirely:

What streamers (and external clocks) have you found to work well with the TC?


----------



## mammal

Polygonhell said:


> The only "knock" I have on the WA33 is it isn't a SET amp, and that's more about preference.
> Balanced tube amps cancel a lot of the 2nd harmonic distortion so you don't get a lot of mid range bloom with it.
> It still sounds like a tube amp, but it's very much on the dryer side.


Is that the case always? I know that PP are considered to be removing those second harmonics, hence you hear third harmonics more. Perhaps that is what I would prefer, as I like tight lower end register and recessed mids? I read a lot that SET amps sound more natural though. I wonder again how much these topologies matter, as with DACs, often R2R vs DS depends on how it is implemented internally, very difficult to generalise what a certain topology will sound like on TOTL high end gear. I guess these generalisations work better on low-fi, or mid-fi perhaps.



Polygonhell said:


> Those qualities are going to be broadly the same across all the variants, I'd like to hear an EE, but I'm happy with my standard version. I generally use it in preference to my original Cavalli Liquid Gold.


That's amazing, I heard just praises of Liquid Gold, and now we have amps that surprise it, wow.



paradoxper said:


> The big guy that didn't actually work at that time. Before the world shut down and they played catch-up with order fulfillment while putting a focus on the closed-back and planning the future for IEMs. I'll go with the big guy is a big miss but tried through development.


Very possible, perhaps we will hear more about it in 2022.


----------



## littlej0e

Polygonhell said:


> I'm not sure how true this really is.
> The only tube I'd roll immediately on a WA33 is the rectifier, put at least an NOS RCA 5U4G (about $70) in it.
> Better 2A3's will improve resolution and clarity to a point (and I have swapped mine), but the stock tubes aren't bad.
> The input tubes aren't worth messing with IME.
> ...



So here's what I learned about the standard WA33 vs the EE w/JPS. I demoed the standard WA33 at a local dealer and obviously liked what I heard, but when I received the EE w/JPS is sounded like a completely different amp with dramatically different sound. The EE JPS is also incredibly sensitive to whatever you put around and through it, including tubes. I found this to be generally true with the input and power tubes, but especially true with the rectifier. The stock hits a bit harder, but can't hold a candle to the Tak in pretty much every other category. The key takeaway is the standard edition isn't comparable SQ-wise to the EE JPS and rolling tubes in the EE JPS can give you fairly dramatic results.



Polygonhell said:


> As an aside does anyone know what the gain switch actually does on the WA33, I asked Woo and got the following none answer


I have an interesting experience to share on this subject. When I first got my WA33 EE JPS I used it in pre-amp mode with the Raal HSA-1b amp and SR1a ear speakers. I was in slack-jawed amazement of the SQ, but I had to max out the volume dials on the HSA-1b and the WA33 (on the low gain setting) to get the volume I wanted. Others have taught me that it is normally better to have the volume dials around 12 o'clock, so I switched the WA33 to high gain and leveled off the dials on both amps accordingly. When I did so, the music seemed to lose a lot of it's euphoric impact, a slight bit of color, and had an overall duller, more smeared presentation. I was 99% sure I was crazy and chalked it up to "new toy psychological euphoria" wearing off.  

I eventually got curious and switched everything back to "max-max-low" and noticed things sounded much "stronger" and more euphoric. I subsequently did some blind A/B testing between the low and high gain to verify I wasn't insane, then did the same thing with my wife and mother-in-law. All three of us preferred max-max-low. There is something going on here, at least with this setup ( SR1a > HSA-1b > WA33 EE JPS (preamp) > Holo May > custom server > Roon > Qobuz/local music). 

I'm going to do some additional testing to see if I can figure it out. I mean, if there isn't a mechanical reason in the WA33, then it has to be something else in the HSA-1b or another component. I also wonder if the same would be true when using the WA33 EE JPS in normal (non-preamp) mode.


----------



## littlej0e

Gadget67 said:


> Let me add to the wife support.  I “mentioned” I might buy the Super Conductor cable and her response was “of course you should; it‘s like buying fine china and needing the silverware to go with it.”  Hand to God…almost fell off the couch…



Sounds like a keeper to me!!!


----------



## paradoxper

mammal said:


> Very possible, perhaps we will hear more about it in 2022.


It's likely. In their other video discussing the different driver approach, they also note how comparatively easy it is to take an idea quickly and prototype a planar rather than the field which would make sense to being hopeful in some successor.


----------



## Polygonhell

littlej0e said:


> So here's what I learned about the standard WA33 vs the EE w/JPS. I demoed the standard WA33 at a local dealer and obviously liked what I heard, but when I received the EE w/JPS is sounded like a completely different amp with dramatically different sound. The EE JPS is also incredibly sensitive to whatever you put around and through it, including tubes. I found this to be generally true with the input and power tubes, but especially true with the rectifier. The stock hits a bit harder, but can't hold a candle to the Tak in pretty much every other category. The key takeaway is the standard edition isn't comparable SQ-wise to the EE JPS and rolling tubes in the EE JPS can give you fairly dramatic results.
> 
> 
> I have an interesting experience to share on this subject. When I first got my WA33 EE JPS I used it in pre-amp mode with the Raal HSA-1b amp and SR1a ear speakers. I was in slack-jawed amazement of the SQ, but I had to max out the volume dials on the HSA-1b and the WA33 (on the low gain setting) to get the volume I wanted. Others have taught me that it is normally better to have the volume dials around 12 o'clock, so I switched the WA33 to high gain and leveled off the dials on both amps accordingly. When I did so, the music seemed to lose a lot of it's euphoric impact, a slight bit of color, and had an overall duller, more smeared presentation. I was 99% sure I was crazy and chalked it up to "new toy psychological euphoria" wearing off.
> ...


Generally pots sound better at maximum, assuming the amp isn't clipping, so max/max makes some sense to me.
I suspect what the low gain switch does on the WA33 is adjust the voltage divider on the pot, in which case it's basically just restricting the volume range.
I was interested to see if like the DNA Amps it's actually a different output tap on the transformer, because if it is, it would actually deliver less gain, but have a larger  current reserve in low gain mode.


----------



## Polygonhell

mammal said:


> I read a lot that SET amps sound more natural though.


It's all personal preference at some level, I use my D8000Pro on a DNA Stratus, through the SE out on low gain by preference.
I think it's better complement to that particular headphone than the WA33, the DNA isn't very wet, but it has a hint of 2nd harmonic bloom.

There are SET amps with varying levels of "wetness", the EC amps for example are supposed to be generally on the very dry side, and the SE Woo amps I've heard are overly wet for my tastes.

The Susvara I prefer on the WA33, DNA just doesn't drive it properly, though it gets closest on low gain SE out.
I'd like to hear one of the EC 300B amps, and I might pick one up if I get a chance.
My 1266 might ship this week according to my dealer, fingers crossed.


----------



## littlej0e (Jun 22, 2021)

Polygonhell said:


> Generally pots sound better at maximum, assuming the amp isn't clipping, so max/max makes some sense to me.
> I suspect what the low gain switch does on the WA33 is adjust the voltage divider on the pot, in which case it's basically just restricting the volume range.
> I was interested to see if like the DNA Amps it's actually a different output tap on the transformer, because if it is, it would actually deliver less gain, but have a larger  current reserve in low gain mode.



Fantastic info and thank you _so_ much for sharing. This is a much better, more workable, theory than mine: "well, duh...it must be because rainbows reflect Earth's magnetic field and cause my special music hat made of a rare earth tinfoil alloy to reverberate more impactfully when Eric Clapton plays guitar solos."

Seriously, thanks. I've been baking my noodle on this for days.


----------



## Solan

mammal said:


> I know that PP are considered to be removing those second harmonics, hence you hear third harmonics more. Perhaps that is what I would prefer, as I like tight lower end register and recessed mids?


Harmonics are not about registers, but about how the waveforms are modified from their basic sinusoidal patterns. Examples of tones with only odd harmonics are triangle waves (check Additive Triangle wave sound sample for sound sample) and square waves (the charming sound of that may be found here: Square wave sound sample). That does by all means not prove anything, but ... I hope it helps build understanding. Try the sines with overtones (2nd and 3rd harmonics) generated here by choosing 100Hz + 200Hz (2nd harmonic) and then a new one at 100Hz + 300 Hz (3rd harmonic). That's really all it's about. I would have loved to find something more "musical", but alas!


----------



## Ciggavelli

Sajid Amit said:


> Off topic, but maybe not entirely:
> 
> What streamers (and external clocks) have you found to work well with the TC?


I have an Innuos PhoenixUSB reclocker and Innuos Zenith Mk3 streamer.  I previously had an UpTone audio usb reclocker, and I liked it a lot.  Because I liked that reclocker so much, I splurged on the more expensive PhoenixUSB.  Because I liked that reclocker so well, I decided to get the Innuos Zenith Mk3.  If you can only choose a streamer or the reclocker, I vote for the reclocker.  The streamer is good, but more subtle compared to the pretty dramatic effect of the USB reclocker


----------



## DJJEZ

Ciggavelli said:


> I have an Innuos PhoenixUSB reclocker and Innuos Zenith Mk3 streamer.  I previously had an UpTone audio usb reclocker, and I liked it a lot.  Because I liked that reclocker so much, I splurged on the more expensive PhoenixUSB.  Because I liked that reclocker so well, I decided to get the Innuos Zenith Mk3.  If you can only choose a streamer or the reclocker, I vote for the reclocker.  The streamer is good, but more subtle compared to the pretty dramatic effect of the USB reclocker


I'm adding the phoenix to my setup soon. Can't wait to see what it adds


----------



## sn0gl0be

mammal said:


> Any AB-1266 owner with Viva Egoista 845 tube amp? It is very difficult (if not impossible) for me to demo Woo Audio WA33 (either version/edition), nor Riviera AIC/AFC-10 here. But managed to convince a dealer to give me Egoista loaner to pair with Bartok for 2-3 weeks, awaiting its availability now. I know Abyss has said in one of their Youtube videos that they do not recommend this amp due its "manual warmup procedure", and I know that there have been cases of AB-1266 drivers failures and I asked Viva about what happened and they told me their side of the story. Anyway, will do my best to be ultra careful operating the amp. So my question is, anyone rocking this setup?


Hi Mammal,
Yeah I am. Its a terrific combination with my Abyss. I’ve only managed to hear WA33 in show conditions, but I ended up going with the Egoista. My dac is a hugo tt2+chord blu. I’ve never had any issue with driver failure (have had the amp for about 4 years). The warm up procedure is pretty simple, I just run the amps for 5 minutes, before playing music. It does run really hot though, great for winter. I reckon its worth a drive test it out for yourself.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jun 22, 2021)

littlej0e said:


> So here's what I learned about the standard WA33 vs the EE w/JPS. I demoed the standard WA33 at a local dealer and obviously liked what I heard, but when I received the EE w/JPS is sounded like a completely different amp with dramatically different sound. The EE JPS is also incredibly sensitive to whatever you put around and through it, including tubes. I found this to be generally true with the input and power tubes, but especially true with the rectifier. The stock hits a bit harder, but can't hold a candle to the Tak in pretty much every other category. The key takeaway is the standard edition isn't comparable SQ-wise to the EE JPS and rolling tubes in the EE JPS can give you fairly dramatic results.
> 
> 
> I have an interesting experience to share on this subject. When I first got my WA33 EE JPS I used it in pre-amp mode with the Raal HSA-1b amp and SR1a ear speakers. I was in slack-jawed amazement of the SQ, but I had to max out the volume dials on the HSA-1b and the WA33 (on the low gain setting) to get the volume I wanted. Others have taught me that it is normally better to have the volume dials around 12 o'clock, so I switched the WA33 to high gain and leveled off the dials on both amps accordingly. When I did so, the music seemed to lose a lot of it's euphoric impact, a slight bit of color, and had an overall duller, more smeared presentation. I was 99% sure I was crazy and chalked it up to "new toy psychological euphoria" wearing off.
> ...


This is interesting. I do low impedance, high gain on my wa33 at around 11 o’clock on the volume. Then I go 12-2 o’clock on the hsa-1b depending on the song (even higher if I use those convolution filters). I keep my DAVE at -6db (as directed by Woo Audio, apparently ). If I take it off high gain I still don’t have to max out either volume. Maybe this volume situation is dac dependent. I guess technically my DAVE turns into a preamp when you mess with the volume. So it’s Dave pre to wa33 pre to hsa-1b pre. (Which is kinda crazy now that I wrote it out   ).

By max-max-low what do you mean?  Max on your dac, max on the wa33?


----------



## Frankie D

sn0gl0be said:


> Hi Mammal,
> Yeah I am. Its a terrific combination with my Abyss. I’ve only managed to hear WA33 in show conditions, but I ended up going with the Egoista. My dac is a hugo tt2+chord blu. I’ve never had any issue with driver failure (have had the amp for about 4 years). The warm up procedure is pretty simple, I just run the amps for 5 minutes, before playing music. It does run really hot though, great for winter. I reckon its worth a drive test it out for yourself.


How is it with the Utopia as I see you have they as well?  Tks.


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> This is interesting. I do low impedance, high gain on my wa33 at around 11 o’clock on the volume. Then I go 12-2 o’clock on the hsa-1b depending on the song (even higher if I use those convolution filters). I keep my DAVE at -6db (as directed by Woo Audio, apparently ). If I take it off high gain I still don’t have to max out either volume. Maybe this volume situation is dac dependent. I guess technically my DAVE turns into a preamp when you mess with the volume. So it’s Dave pre to wa33 pre to hsa-1b pre. (Which is kinda crazy now that I wrote it out   ).
> 
> By max-max-low what do you mean?  Max on your dac, max on the wa33?


I use my dave/blu2 at 0 into my hsa-1b 0 being the equivalent of -3 on the dave alone....then I am at anywhere between 9-16 on most music


----------



## littlej0e (Jun 23, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> This is interesting. I do low impedance, high gain on my wa33 at around 11 o’clock on the volume. Then I go 12-2 o’clock on the hsa-1b depending on the song (even higher if I use those convolution filters). I keep my DAVE at -6db (as directed by Woo Audio, apparently ). If I take it off high gain I still don’t have to max out either volume. Maybe this volume situation is dac dependent. I guess technically my DAVE turns into a preamp when you mess with the volume. So it’s Dave pre to wa33 pre to hsa-1b pre. (Which is kinda crazy now that I wrote it out   ).
> 
> By max-max-low what do you mean?  Max on your dac, max on the wa33?



I thought I was completely nuts until I validated with a couple of other people . The first day I listened to the WA33 EE JPS, I did so with the volume maxed out on both the HSA-1b and WA33 with the gain set to low on the WA33 (that’s what I meant by max/max/low). It was easily the best sound I’ve ever heard. I tried it for a couple of days with almost the exact same settings you are using now (12/12/high). Most of the euphoria was gone and everything sounded duller and less holographic and HQPlayer made everything sound better again. I recently changed everything back to max/max/low and now I’m back to euphoria and a much better experience.

I can no longer use HQPlayer (though it still usually bumps SQ), the SR1a convolution filters, digital EQ, or anything else that alters the sound. They all seem to strip away whatever “special sauce” is hiding inside this rig. I can actually feel a lot of music, especially vocals and vocal harmonies, in a way that I’ve never experienced before. Voices like Darius Rucker, Brent Smith, Avi Kaplan, Pentatonix, Whitney Houston, Freya Ridings, etc. cause some sort of deep, visceral reaction that I can feel from the back of my throat all the way down to my balls. FYI, this can also cause near-instant triggers of synesthesia.

I don’t have a clue why any of this is, but I think it could be the source or a combination of the May DAC and the source. Personally, my money is on the source. I noticed a pretty substantial upswing in SQ when I first installed the server and it stands to reason the WA33 EE JPS could amplify that even more so. I do have to listen fairly loud to get the effects “right” though. My Roon volume is set to DSP and I run it somewhere between -20 and -5 db depending on the track. Again, this is with max/max/low settings on the amps. The May DAC doesn’t have volume control, even though it strangely has volume buttons on the remote.

In any case, I’ll do some more testing and post an update in the WA33 thread (and stop hijacking this Abyss thread any more than I already have).


----------



## sn0gl0be

Frankie D said:


> How is it with the Utopia as I see you have they as well?  Tks.


It was the best I’ve heard the utopias’ but still wasnt to my liking. But then I never again I never really warmed to the Utopias. Still to bright with the viva. Particularly comparing them to Abyss.


----------



## mammal

ajaipuriyar said:


> I have been flipping the switch up directly on my Solista MK3 without the warmup procedure and I've never had a problem.
> 
> Maybe they built some circuit protection for careless ( and impatient) users like me in the newer revised models.





Frankie D said:


> I would check with Viva directly on that question. I bought my Viva Auroras years ago and had been telling him that. Tks.





sn0gl0be said:


> he warm up procedure is pretty simple, I just run the amps for 5 minutes, before playing music. It does run really hot though, great for winter. I reckon its worth a drive test it out for yourself.


So I have spoken with Viva and they told me that the warm up procedure (put the switch down to W for 10 to 30 seconds) is there to increase the longevity of your tubes and some internal components, but is also recommended when you get new tubes, or don't use the amp for more than 2 months. So it is not 100% necessary and there is a reason for the switch to have 3 position (ON/OFF/Warmup), so that you go through OFF when you are switching from Warmup to ON. During warmup there is full voltage on filaments and bias, and reduced voltage on plates of the tubes. Once ON, full operational voltage is applied. Hope this helps to clarify things.


----------



## simorag

A dark, moving, troubling experimental electronics album (Ira - "Wrath") from the artist Iosonouncane.

The AB-1266 are the perfect headphones to tackle this kind of listening journey, where there is a lot to digest and where the sub-bass sustains the musical building by creating a sense of pulsating, primitive rhythm - strangely connected to embedded body functions like the heartbeat.

They allow to read into the intricate fabric of continuously changing soundscapes with ease, and to deep dive into, and emotionally connect with, the world created by the artist.


----------



## MrCypruz

simorag said:


> A dark, moving, troubling experimental electronics album (Ira - "Wrath") from the artist Iosonouncane.
> 
> The AB-1266 are the perfect headphones to tackle this kind of listening journey, where there is a lot to digest and where the sub-bass sustains the musical building by creating a sense of pulsating, primitive rhythm - strangely connected to embedded body functions like the heartbeat.
> 
> They allow to read into the intricate fabric of continuously changing soundscapes with ease, and to deep dive into, and emotionally connect with, the world created by the artist.


This album is glorious! Jamming it on my 2 channel speaker rig. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## marcus2704

I ordered a Stax CPC-1 Headphone Cover for my Abyss as I wanted to keep them as dust-free as possible.   Well it *just* fits thank goodness, and only cost £20:

https://www.analogueseduction.net/h...e-accessories/stax-cpc-1-headphone-cover.html


----------



## eee1111

marcus2704 said:


> I ordered a Stax CPC-1 Headphone Cover for my Abyss as I wanted to keep them as dust-free as possible.   Well it *just* fits thank goodness, and only cost £20:
> 
> https://www.analogueseduction.net/h...e-accessories/stax-cpc-1-headphone-cover.html


Probably looks way better over stax with the stax wood stand.

you really squeezed it there


----------



## Abyss Headphones

Nice review on the XIAUDIO Formula S / Powerman combo by @PortableAudioLover 
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/xiaudio-formula-s-and-powerman.25230/reviews#review-26111


----------



## number1sixerfan (Jun 23, 2021)

mammal said:


> Hoping that I do not like what I hear, haha, but let's see. I am not upgrading for sake of upgrading - you may remember that I had M Scaler, heard very little (and what I heard was not what I liked for EMD) and decided not to buy it. I am just incredibly lucky to be able to audition higher end gear at home for 2-3 weeks before I make a purchase. This way, you also know that I am not liking it just because I bought it, haha. Sure, I have biases like anyone else, but at least not "buyers remorse / rationalization".
> 
> To all reading - none of this is to say WA33 or AIC-10 aren't good amps. It's just buying blindly this level of gear is a big no-no for me, plus a local warranty where I can physically bring back the amp is important to me. And Riviera's dealers are ignoring my e-mail, so I guess I won't be trying that.



When you audition, are you able to try a few at the same time? If not, you're still buying somewhat blind, although obviously nowhere near as blind as not hearing them ever lol. Also, one thing to keep in mind, I typically won't buy headphones or amps that don't hold their resale value. Sometimes I break that rule, but not often. It's an effort/hassle to sale them, but really no harm no foul if I don't like an item. I would also say don't let the Mscaler jade you, it's definitely not an item for everybody..subtle differences at a high cost (although I love mine). Only mentioning as I know how stressful going down that rabbit hole can be. 



llamaluv said:


> I auditioned the Egoista seriously with the Abyss Phi at the local dealer on two occasions. I compared it side-by-side with the WA33, interestingly enough. I liked both equally. I couldn't _quite_ convince myself to part with the cash for the Egoista, but did leave the store with the WA33.
> 
> This was a couple years ago, so I unfortunately don't have much useful to say beyond that. But the Egoista was super-dynamic, full-bodied, and probably a little more neutral (both with their respective stock tubes). I'd be lying if I said I don't sometimes wonder what-might-have-been...



So you've had the WA33 and Bakoon now? Have you used the TC with each? Or do you mainly use the TC with the Cayin? Looking at speaker amps now primarily for other headphones but would love it if it was great with the TC as well.


----------



## mammal

number1sixerfan said:


> When you audition, are you able to try a few at the same time? If not, you're still buying somewhat blind, although obviously nowhere near as blind as not hearing them ever lol. Also, one thing to keep in mind, I typically won't buy headphones or amps that don't hold their resale value. Sometimes I break that rule, but not often. It's an effort/hassle to sale them, but really no harm no foul if I don't like an item. I would also say don't let the Mscaler jade you, it's definitely not an item for everybody..subtle differences at a high cost (although I love mine). Only mentioning as I know how stressful going down that rabbit hole can be.


Very fair point regading blind buying. The way I look at it is a bit different though. For me, I am not trying to get the best item possilble, but rather “guarantee” that my buy is an improvement to my setup. Let’s say that amp XYZ is better than ABC, but I have no access to XYZ. After auditioning ABC, if I hear an improvement, I may decide to purchase, if I don’t hear a difference, I let it go. What I try to avoid is to buy either of them blindly and then regret purchasing, as what I hear is worse to my ears. I know this is not perfect, but I hope it makes sense at least a bit


----------



## number1sixerfan

mammal said:


> Very fair point regading blind buying. The way I look at it is a bit different though. For me, I am not trying to get the best item possilble, but rather “guarantee” that my buy is an improvement to my setup. Let’s say that amp XYZ is better than ABC, but I have no access to XYZ. After auditioning ABC, if I hear an improvement, I may decide to purchase, if I don’t hear a difference, I let it go. What I try to avoid is to buy either of them blindly and then regret purchasing, as what I hear is worse to my ears. I know this is not perfect, but I hope it makes sense at least a bit



Yea this definitely makes sense too, I get that.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Every Abyss Headphone I have owned sounds good on the A&K Kann Alpha (even the V2, which I wasn’t a fan of). Playing the AB 1266 Phi TC on it at present.



Btw, who says you can’t lie down with the TC? Lol. I am totally horizontal as I listen to the TC off the DAP, right now. 😅

In any case, the Kann Alpha is a very punchy and dynamic-sounding DAP; with excellent soundstage and a liquid midrange. It retains the Abyss bass and dynamics, while making the midrange more liquid, and taming the treble a bit. 

Heck, even my Susvara sounds good on the Alpha, probably the only portable solution I have found to work well with the Sus. ❤️


----------



## Solan

Sajid Amit said:


> Heck, even my Susvara sounds good on the Alpha, probably the only portable solution I have found to work well with the Sus. ❤️


Let me add a big one for the Lootoo PAW Gold, which I have. Same designer as the Xi Audio Formula S. My current amps are hardly summit-fi, but the one I have ranked #2 is the Topping A90, which the Abyss gang tiered at B tier, but my #1, ahead of it, is the Lootoo PAW Gold. Maybe not "it" for people who want to retire their ears at an early age through playing at 90dB+ but a wonderful experience for the rest of us. But for the A-tier experience, I need to save up some ...


----------



## Polygonhell

Mine showed up (~12 weeks)


----------



## Gadget67

Polygonhell said:


> Mine showed up (~12 weeks)


It was worth the wait for me.  Love mine!


----------



## Polygonhell

Gadget67 said:


> It was worth the wait for me. Love mine!


I’ll get a good listen in tomorrow, initial impressions, were positive, surprisingly comfortable.
Obviously very resolving, somewhat different tonality than I‘m used to, but I’ll give them a few hours before I start commenting for real on anything sound related.


----------



## Ciggavelli

This came out today, and it's ridiculously good death metal, and of course it sounds great out of the TCs


----------



## marcus2704

I have an opportunity to demo the Diana Phi, along with the AB-1266 Phi TC which I already own.  I am really very impressed by the Diana, the form factor is compact and the headphone itself is probably the best looking headphone I have seen.  Vocals are a lot closer than the AB-1266 which has the soundstage and the micro-detail over the Diana, but had I never heard the AB-1266 I would be looking at the Diana as an endgame headphone.  The difficulty is that I have to choose one, and I just know I am going to be missing the Diana should that be the one to go.  It seems most people go from the Diana to the AB-1266, but I have yet to read of this going the other way, but the more I hear them the more they win me over and its very hard to choose right now.


----------



## mammal

marcus2704 said:


> I have an opportunity to demo the Diana Phi, along with the AB-1266 Phi TC which I already own.  I am really very impressed by the Diana, the form factor is compact and the headphone itself is probably the best looking headphone I have seen.  Vocals are a lot closer than the AB-1266 which has the soundstage and the micro-detail over the Diana, but had I never heard the AB-1266 I would be looking at the Diana as an endgame headphone.  The difficulty is that I have to choose one, and I just know I am going to be missing the Diana should that be the one to go.  It seems most people go from the Diana to the AB-1266, but I have yet to read of this going the other way, but the more I hear them the more they win me over and its very hard to choose right now.


I was one of those who went from Diana (V2 not Phi) to AB-1266 and my main motivation was FOMO, I just did not want to be wondering about "as my electronics scale and I get better DACs and AMPs, how much better will AB-1266 become?". I reserve the right to re-purchase Diana's again, when they release a closed back, as then it will have a different function completely (listening at work for example).


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> This came out today, and it's ridiculously good death metal, and of course it sounds great out of the TCs


just the picture itself creeps me out lol......


----------



## OceanRanger

Ciggavelli said:


> This came out today, and it's ridiculously good death metal, and of course it sounds great out of the TCs


While listening, death metal makes me to feel angst. That said, your post caused me to find the album and listen to a couple of tracks. Drowned in Malodor was my favorite. Now I'm going to spend some time taking the edge off on the Dark Side Of the Moon. @Ciggavelli thanks for briefly getting me out of my comfort zone.


----------



## Gadget67

So…my Super Conductor cable arrived yesterday (thanks @qboogie for a nice sales transaction and @Ciggavelli for helpful enabling).I am very leery of what I’ll characterize as “squishy” audiophile terms when describing a new addition but I will go so far as to say it seems like a definite improvement over anything I’ve tried so far.  It’s most certainly at the upper end of what I’m willing to pay for a headphone cable but as I commented elsewhere, my wife said I should get it because “of course you should; it‘s like buying fine china and needing the silverware to go with it.”  My wife likes nice China and silverware so I guess it’s relatable!

Not a big fan of the separated cables but this one is six feet so it’s not unmanageable; I think anything longer would be super (cable) annoying.  Of course it’s well made (it better be at those prices) and it feels like a keeper right off the bat.  I will post some actual impressions at some point after much more listening time and a few more comparisons with other cables.  I’ll leave the “is it worth it” comments to others but since I was able to purchase from the sales forum I’m very happy!


----------



## mammal

Gadget67 said:


> My wife likes nice China and silverware so I guess it’s relatable!


What is China in this context? I am confused! Thanks


----------



## MatW

mammal said:


> What is China in this context? I am confused! Thanks


Fine China is basically porcelain.


----------



## paradoxper

mammal said:


> What is China in this context? I am confused! Thanks


Porcelain dinnerware.


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> What is China in this context? I am confused! Thanks


She “collects“ really nice dishes and serving pieces!  Silverware goes with nice dishes, thus the parallel.


----------



## mammal

Thank you @MatW @paradoxper @Gadget67 for your replies. My wife will be very happy when she hears I bought her something nice for the dining room, but she won't believe me when I tell her I got it off a recommendation from a head-fi forum, haha.


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> Thank you @MatW @paradoxper @Gadget67 for your replies. My wife will be very happy when she hears I bought her something nice for the dining room, but she won't believe me when I tell her I got it off a recommendation from a head-fi forum, haha.


Wow…you should video that conversation…


----------



## OceanRanger

I've been doing some A/B testing with USB cables. In doing so, much time today has been devoted listening to The Perppery Man. This song sounds fantastic on the TCs. Male vocals, female vocals, bass, drums, harmonica, horns, guitars, simplicity and complexity. This one track has so much variation it has been fun in which to dive deeply.


----------



## Burakk

For anyone interested, my superconductor cable listed;

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/jps-superconductor-hp-for-abyss-1266-tc.6691/

I’m considering  to sell  Formula S + Powerman stock as well. But not yet listed. If smb interested in, we can talk.


----------



## attmci

Burakk said:


> For anyone interested, my superconductor cable listed;
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/jps-superconductor-hp-for-abyss-1266-tc.6691/
> 
> I’m considering  to sell  Formula S + Powerman stock as well. But not yet listed. If smb interested in, we can talk.


Then you will have a naked 1266. LOL


----------



## Solan

mammal said:


> Thank you @MatW @paradoxper @Gadget67 for your replies. My wife will be very happy when she hears I bought her something nice for the dining room, but she won't believe me when I tell her I got it off a recommendation from a head-fi forum, haha.


Go with Wedgewood ... fine bone china is what you'd want.


----------



## Burakk

attmci said:


> Then you will have a naked 1266. LOL


There are too many amp and cable options. Different tastes. Moreover, I like naked


----------



## DJJEZ (Jun 28, 2021)

Today I officially hit 15 weeks of waiting for my 1266TC. Please pray to the headphone gods for me brothers. The wait is killing me lol


----------



## jlbrach

crazy, absolutely crazy


----------



## Ciggavelli

DJJEZ said:


> Today I officially hit 15 weeks of waiting for my 1266TC. Please pray to the headphone gods for me brothers. The wait is killing me lol


I feel your pain. I’m almost on month 5 waiting for my Solitaire P. 

The TCs are worth the wait though.  I’m not sure the same can be said of the Solitaire P


----------



## DJJEZ (Jun 28, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> I feel your pain. I’m almost on month 5 waiting for my Solitaire P.
> 
> The TCs are worth the wait though.  I’m not sure the same can be said of the Solitaire P


Oh wow its nice to see someone else suffering the same amount of time but you win at nearly 5 months lol


----------



## Sajid Amit

DJJEZ said:


> Oh wow its nice to see someone else suffering the same amount of time but you win at nearly 5 months lol


This is surprising. I ordered my TC and got it shipped in about a week, from Audio46. Reached my sister’s house in VA soon after and eventually, my current address, a little later.


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> Today I officially hit 15 weeks of waiting for my 1266TC. Please pray to the headphone gods for me brothers. The wait is killing me lol


You know that I feel for you, but it IS worth it!  Even my headphone averse wife was impressed…


----------



## Polygonhell

Sajid Amit said:


> This is surprising. I ordered my TC and got it shipped in about a week, from Audio46. Reached my sister’s house in VA soon after and eventually, my current address, a little later.


Probably depends if the dealer has to order from Abyss, or can fill from stock.
A lot of people are getting discounts from the dealers, but the dealers have to special order from Abyss, and obviously they fill the direct orders first.
I had to wait 12 weeks to get mine, and from what I can tell from my dealer, even direct orders were heavily delayed by a CNC issue, and then Abyss not having the wooden boxes they ship in.


----------



## ctop

Finally it's here! 
After listening for a few hours, I could easily say the wait is totally worth it.


----------



## Sajid Amit

ctop said:


> Finally it's here!
> After listening for a few hours, I could easily say the wait is totally worth it.


Beautiful.


----------



## Gadget67

Sajid Amit said:


> This is surprising. I ordered my TC and got it shipped in about a week, from Audio46. Reached my sister’s house in VA soon after and eventually, my current address, a little later.





Polygonhell said:


> Probably depends if the dealer has to order from Abyss, or can fill from stock.
> A lot of people are getting discounts from the dealers, but the dealers have to special order from Abyss, and obviously they fill the direct orders first.
> I had to wait 12 weeks to get mine, and from what I can tell from my dealer, even direct orders were heavily delayed by a CNC issue, and then Abyss not having the wooden boxes they ship in.


@Sajid Amit was obviously very lucky!  I looked through many dealer web pages leading up to my purchase and the 1266 was always unavailable or on back order.  Those who ordered directly from Abyss tended to receive their headphones relatively quickly.  It appears the backlog is rapidly going away so I hope everyone who has these on back order receive them soon!


----------



## Sajid Amit

Gadget67 said:


> @Sajid Amit was obviously very lucky!  I looked through many dealer web pages leading up to my purchase and the 1266 was always unavailable or on back order.  Those who ordered directly from Abyss tended to receive their headphones relatively quickly.  It appears the backlog is rapidly going away so I hope everyone who has these on back order receive them soon!


Indeed.


----------



## simorag (Jun 29, 2021)

ctop said:


> Finally it's here!
> After listening for a few hours, I could easily say the wait is totally worth it.



Heavenly combo, congrats mate  

LOVE the Rooms stand, must eventually get one as well.





If you ever feel like it, I would recommend trying the TC out of the speaker taps of the AIC-10 for another out-of-your-head experience uptick.

I am a bit jealous of your honeymoon stage (although mine has not ended yet after 2 years now lol). Enjoy and please let us know how it goes


----------



## PhazeCrive

I've got a question. I am a budding audiophile. I've had a fair share of entry level cans that fit that description. But there's just something that captivates me when I go downstairs and listen to the same music in my untreated tiny game room with one budget speaker bar and one 300$ subwoofer. The bigger sense of music, the way they're bouncing off the walls and preseting the sound in ways I've never heard in any headphone ever, but most importantly the bass. I feel myself vibrating to the music, playing in to that extra sense of dimensionality. The left and right channels seemlessly blending into one harmonic structure where as with headphones the left ear only hears the left cup (and a tiny fragment of the right if it's an open back). I had to put a few songs on repeat because I was surprised at how the left and right channels on speakers vastly differ from headphones. Have I been hearing the wrong version of the song the whole time? You know what I mean?

But yeah I find it very hard to give up that sense of space and bass. However the woofer moves, thats how my body moves. You can't escape the pressure waves it throws at you. I know what I have is technical garbage compared to the mastery of the TC, and I also know the TC has the best bass, soundstage, and details out of just about everything that produces sound. The TC has been on my list for awhile but even after listening to budget speakers in an untreated room, I'm met with THE best listening experience that I find it hard to go back upstairs and listen to my library with headphones.

Can the TC break this boundary for people like me? I know it wont shake my body like a sub can, and it is more balanced (which is preferred).


----------



## MaggotBrain

PhazeCrive said:


> I've got a question. I am a budding audiophile. I've had a fair share of entry level cans that fit that description. But there's just something that captivates me when I go downstairs and listen to the same music in my untreated tiny game room with one budget speaker bar and one 300$ subwoofer. The bigger sense of music, the way they're bouncing off the walls and preseting the sound in ways I've never heard in any headphone ever, but most importantly the bass. I feel myself vibrating to the music, playing in to that extra sense of dimensionality. The left and right channels seemlessly blending into one harmonic structure where as with headphones the left ear only hears the left cup (and a tiny fragment of the right if it's an open back). I had to put a few songs on repeat because I was surprised at how the left and right channels on speakers vastly differ from headphones. Have I been hearing the wrong version of the song the whole time? You know what I mean?
> 
> But yeah I find it very hard to give up that sense of space and bass. However the woofer moves, thats how my body moves. You can't escape the pressure waves it throws at you. I know what I have is technical garbage compared to the mastery of the TC, and I also know the TC has the best bass, soundstage, and details out of just about everything that produces sound. The TC has been on my list for awhile but even after listening to budget speakers in an untreated room, I'm met with THE best listening experience that I find it hard to go back upstairs and listen to my library with headphones.
> 
> Can the TC break this boundary for people like me? I know it wont shake my body like a sub can, and it is more balanced (which is preferred).


It is true that the TC cannot replicate the bone-shaking goodness of a sub, but it it is the best headphone for bass that you can feel as well as hear.  I too have owned a kajillion headphones (and some like Stax SR009 which are more detailed but missing the low end impact) but none came closest to the joy I get from sitting a few feet away from big ol 3 way near field monitors but the TC is damn close - AND with the TC you get the brains as well as the brawn as the precision in treble and mids complements the power of the bass. It’s bass with a belt on - not flabby and bloated but tight and punchy.  IMHO its the best headphone for people who love music and bass in particular.


----------



## DJJEZ

ctop said:


> Finally it's here!
> After listening for a few hours, I could easily say the wait is totally worth it.


Wow and a total endgame amp to go with it 

Very nice


----------



## ctop

simorag said:


> Heavenly combo, congrats mate
> 
> LOVE the Rooms stand, must eventually get one as well.
> 
> ...



Would surely try it out of the speaker taps but the thing is, my speaker taps is a Norne Vykari which I think would alter a bit the character of the SC cable.
Yeah, I think you should get your TC a Rooms stand...it's definitely the icing on the cake.


----------



## ctop

DJJEZ said:


> Wow and a total endgame amp to go with it
> 
> Very nice


The enjoyment I get from the AIC-10 driving the TC and Susvara surely took out the itch for me to try other headfi toys...hopefully for a long time.


----------



## jlbrach

I find it interesting that an amp that is rated at 10/8 should drive the susvara and abyss so well...


----------



## Stereolab42

DJJEZ said:


> Oh wow its nice to see someone else suffering the same amount of time but you win at nearly 5 months lol



Yeah, my WA234 is only at 3 months now. I knew the original estimate of 6 weeks was fantasy, having talked to other owners, but whatever, I am still enjoying my WA5.


----------



## Sajid Amit

On an unrelated note, I stumbled upon this picture. Lots of respect for this gentleman.


----------



## Solan

Sajid Amit said:


> This is surprising. I ordered my TC and got it shipped in about a week, from Audio46. Reached my sister’s house in VA soon after and eventually, my current address, a little later.


Dhaka? I never understood this about having different markets with different prices. I had a friend in the USA order for me (and pay! It was actually an outstanding debt), and ship it here. When I go to abyss.com, I get redirected to eu.abyss.com, a site that charges EU VAT even on orders from countries outside the EU. And you can bet customs will add national VAT once they come in from the EU. Double VAT, and that means serious money in Europe! So it made absolutely no sense to "play by the rules" and order from there. So it's nice for a European to have American friends now and then.

Besides, it was technically by the rules, really, since my friend not only bought it but also paid for it. Purchase from the USA into the USA. That they since sent it to me was their prerogative.


----------



## Solan

Polygonhell said:


> Probably depends if the dealer has to order from Abyss, or can fill from stock.
> A lot of people are getting discounts from the dealers, but the dealers have to special order from Abyss, and obviously they fill the direct orders first.
> I had to wait 12 weeks to get mine, and from what I can tell from my dealer, even direct orders were heavily delayed by a CNC issue, and then Abyss not having the wooden boxes they ship in.


The discount was nice, but imagine the logistic of ordering from a dealer via a friend in the USA and have triple shipping!  Abyss->Dealer->Friend->Me


----------



## Sajid Amit

Solan said:


> Dhaka? I never understood this about having different markets with different prices. I had a friend in the USA order for me (and pay! It was actually an outstanding debt), and ship it here. When I go to abyss.com, I get redirected to eu.abyss.com, a site that charges EU VAT even on orders from countries outside the EU. And you can bet customs will add national VAT once they come in from the EU. Double VAT, and that means serious money in Europe! So it made absolutely no sense to "play by the rules" and order from there. So it's nice for a European to have American friends now and then.
> 
> Besides, it was technically by the rules, really, since my friend not only bought it but also paid for it. Purchase from the USA into the USA. That they since sent it to me was their prerogative.


I live in Dhaka currently but all my siblings still live in the US. I work for an American company in Dhaka and implement US-funded grants. 

I buy stuff in the US, have them sent over to my family in the US, and when they visit, they bring stuff to me. 

Yes, buying American-made gear can be a pain in the EU. Meanwhile, buying Japanese stuff can be a pain if one is in the US.

I try my best to source from wherever I get good prices. 

For instance, Accuphase and Luxman are way more expensive in the US than they are through dealers in Dhaka, shockingly (in a good way).


----------



## Hoegaardener70

PhazeCrive said:


> I've got a question. I am a budding audiophile. I've had a fair share of entry level cans that fit that description. But there's just something that captivates me when I go downstairs and listen to the same music in my untreated tiny game room with one budget speaker bar and one 300$ subwoofer. The bigger sense of music, the way they're bouncing off the walls and preseting the sound in ways I've never heard in any headphone ever, but most importantly the bass. I feel myself vibrating to the music, playing in to that extra sense of dimensionality. The left and right channels seemlessly blending into one harmonic structure where as with headphones the left ear only hears the left cup (and a tiny fragment of the right if it's an open back). I had to put a few songs on repeat because I was surprised at how the left and right channels on speakers vastly differ from headphones. Have I been hearing the wrong version of the song the whole time? You know what I mean?
> 
> But yeah I find it very hard to give up that sense of space and bass. However the woofer moves, thats how my body moves. You can't escape the pressure waves it throws at you. I know what I have is technical garbage compared to the mastery of the TC, and I also know the TC has the best bass, soundstage, and details out of just about everything that produces sound. The TC has been on my list for awhile but even after listening to budget speakers in an untreated room, I'm met with THE best listening experience that I find it hard to go back upstairs and listen to my library with headphones.
> 
> Can the TC break this boundary for people like me? I know it wont shake my body like a sub can, and it is more balanced (which is preferred).


I use my TC together with a woojer. Another brand is subpak. It basically recreates the subwoofer on your body. Works well for me, it’s like standings in front of the loudspeaker of a live concert, minus the hearing loss.


----------



## mammal (Jun 30, 2021)

Received my DHC Complement C (copper) cable today, will compare it to Lavricable Grand (silver) in a couple of days (after it is fully burned in). However, off the bat, DHC copper sounds much closer to the stock cable in terms of tonality. Where as Lavricables silver traded bass for mids (which some will like) and improved soundstage/imaging/detail retrieval. Too early to say if DHC copper will open up as well (I hope it does) while keeping the tonality unchanged. Build quality is definitely subpar to Lavricables, not as nice to touch, connector feel less premium, much more scratching on the surface (not microphonics per say, more sound of a hard plastic on a table, where as Lavricables is softer). What DHC does better is bass, but the detail retrieval suffers. To keep the price the same, I got much shorter cable and did not get upgraded plugs, so clearly USA is more expensive than Latvia. Anyway, will give it more time and report back with a review.


----------



## MatW

My mother listened to my headphones today. She listens to classical music. I let her listen to the Susvara first, thinking that would be the best for classical. She was impressed. She then asked about the "weird looking one", so we tried that one too... Her jaw dropped. According to my mother, the TC is better than the Susvara, and by a landslide too ...  

Always interesting to get the perspective from people who listen to high-end headphones, for the first time ever.


----------



## mammal

MatW said:


> My mother listened to my headphones today. She listens to classical music. I let her listen to the Susvara first, thinking that would be the best for classical. She was impressed. She then asked about the "weird looking one", so we tried that one too... Her jaw dropped. According to my mother, the TC is better than the Susvara, and by a landslide too ...
> 
> Always interesting to get the perspective from people who listen to high-end headphones, for the first time ever.


What in particular did she find better?


----------



## ken6217

MatW said:


> My mother listened to my headphones today. She listens to classical music. I let her listen to the Susvara first, thinking that would be the best for classical. She was impressed. She then asked about the "weird looking one", so we tried that one too... Her jaw dropped. According to my mother, the TC is better than the Susvara, and by a landslide too ...
> 
> Always interesting to get the perspective from people who listen to high-end headphones, for the first time ever.


Did you tell your mom how much of your allowance it cost to buy these cans?


----------



## MatW

mammal said:


> What in particular did she find better?


She is not versed in headfi lingo, but I think she spoke mainly about clarity, transparency and soundstage. But basically 'everything'..


ken6217 said:


> Did you tell your mom how much of your allowance it cost to buy these cans?


Haha, my last allowance was probably 25 years ago.. I'd like to think that what they invested in my education back then helped me to earn enough today to enjoy this awesome hobby. For which I'll be grateful forever.


----------



## mammal

MatW said:


> I'd like to think that what they invested in my education back then helped me to earn enough today to enjoy this awesome hobby. For which I'll be grateful forever.


And hopefully you can repay them by repeating this wonderful tradition on your own MatW’s


----------



## jlbrach (Jun 30, 2021)

MatW said:


> My mother listened to my headphones today. She listens to classical music. I let her listen to the Susvara first, thinking that would be the best for classical. She was impressed. She then asked about the "weird looking one", so we tried that one too... Her jaw dropped. According to my mother, the TC is better than the Susvara, and by a landslide too ...
> 
> Always interesting to get the perspective from people who listen to high-end headphones, for the first time ever.


not surprising...the TC is far more of an awe inspiring experience...bigger soundstage..more bass etc...not necessarily better but grander


----------



## Gadget67

MatW said:


> My mother listened to my headphones today. She listens to classical music. I let her listen to the Susvara first, thinking that would be the best for classical. She was impressed. She then asked about the "weird looking one", so we tried that one too... Her jaw dropped. According to my mother, the TC is better than the Susvara, and by a landslide too ...
> 
> Always interesting to get the perspective from people who listen to high-end headphones, for the first time ever.


My wife had a similar reaction; she dislikes headphones, but has listened to my Utopia which she claimed to “like”.  The Abyss was an OMG for her.  She characterized them as sounding “real” and wasn’t in a big hurry to give them back.


----------



## Solan (Jul 2, 2021)

I have now had the 1266 for some time, and have played with the pads. My best positions are somewhere around 12 O'clock, somewhat depending on how much bass I want. (I'm a real wide bulb-head). BUT the best position is when I manage to press it down a bit. The O-rubber rings pull it back up again. Any recommendations on where to find bigger ones? (And what is the default size called? I need to know so that I know I order larger ones.)

Another question: I have talked a bit with @mammal and do of course suffer from Bartòk envy at this point. Well, not envy, for I am really happy for him that he has such an awesome DAC. But I am wondering which DACs would do the 1266 and my taste in music the most justice _within my budget_. If I find something funkalantastically awesome, I will stretch myself to right past 5000 euros or 6k-dollars. But that's not for just "marginally better" but only for plain superior. Otherwise, my budget is more comfortably at half that. Any recommendations?


----------



## Bonddam

Solan said:


> I have now had the 1266 for some time, and have played with the pads. My best positions are somewhere around 12 O'clock, somewhat depending on how much bass I want. (I'm a real wide bulb-head). BUT the best position is when I manage to press it down a bit. The O-rubber rings pull it back up again. Any recommendations on where to find bigger ones? (And what is the default size called? I need to know so that I know I order larger ones.)
> 
> Another question: I have talked a bit with @mammal and do of course suffer from Bartòk envy at this point. Well, not envy, for I am really happy for him that he has such an awesome DAC. But I am wondering which DACs would do the 1266 and my taste in music the most justice _within my budget_. If I find something ****alantastically awesome, I will stretch myself to right past 5000 euros or 6k-dollars. But that's not for just "marginally better" but only for plain superior. Otherwise, my budget is more comfortably at half that. Any recommendations?


Wells Audio Cipher


----------



## Sajid Amit

MatW said:


> She is not versed in headfi lingo, but I think she spoke mainly about clarity, transparency and soundstage. But basically 'everything'..
> 
> Haha, my last allowance was probably 25 years ago.. I'd like to think that what they invested in my education back then helped me to earn enough today to enjoy this awesome hobby. For which I'll be grateful forever.


🙌🏻


----------



## Pashmeister

Solan said:


> I have now had the 1266 for some time, and have played with the pads. My best positions are somewhere around 12 O'clock, somewhat depending on how much bass I want. (I'm a real wide bulb-head). BUT the best position is when I manage to press it down a bit. The O-rubber rings pull it back up again. Any recommendations on where to find bigger ones? (And what is the default size called? I need to know so that I know I order larger ones.)
> 
> Another question: I have talked a bit with @mammal and do of course suffer from Bartòk envy at this point. Well, not envy, for I am really happy for him that he has such an awesome DAC. But I am wondering which DACs would do the 1266 and my taste in music the most justice _within my budget_. If I find something ****alantastically awesome, I will stretch myself to right past 5000 euros or 6k-dollars. But that's not for just "marginally better" but only for plain superior. Otherwise, my budget is more comfortably at half that. Any recommendations?


Seems like below are best ones you can get for your budget:
 - Denafrips Terminator II or Terminator Plus
 - Hugo TT2
 - Holo Audio May KTE

I personally hadn't heard the Holo May but the experts are comparing the sound quality to Dave already, and most (if not all) reviews have been rave.


----------



## Palyodgree

I have decided to purchase the Abyss 1266 TC from a local dealer , I’ll have to replace my current headphone amplifier of course, my question is what to consider .The dealer highly recommends the Bakoon 13r however it’s single ended I want to use XLR out of my Holo May KTE dac for obvious reasons .

Anyway all this is in early stages I haven’t wrote the check yet though I’ll be grateful for recommendations of a amplifier in the 4-6K range new or used , thank you .


----------



## Sajid Amit

Pashmeister said:


> Seems like below are best ones you can get for your budget:
> - Denafrips Terminator II or Terminator Plus
> - Hugo TT2
> - Holo Audio May KTE
> ...


I own it. Love it dearly.


----------



## Roasty

Palyodgree said:


> I have decided to purchase the Abyss 1266 TC from a local dealer , I’ll have to replace my current headphone amplifier of course, my question is what to consider .The dealer highly recommends the Bakoon 13r however it’s single ended I want to use XLR out of my Holo May KTE dac for obvious reasons .
> 
> Anyway all this is in early stages I haven’t wrote the check yet though I’ll be grateful for recommendations of a amplifier in the 4-6K range new or used , thank you .



The usual suspect is the formula/powerman combo.
Check out the Flux Audio Volot and Wells Audio Dragon.
And then you have the speaker amps option too.


----------



## OceanRanger

Roasty said:


> The usual suspect is the formula/powerman combo.
> Check out the Flux Audio Volot and Wells Audio Dragon.
> And then you have the speaker amps option too.


@Palyodgree congratulations on the decision to purchase 1266 TCs!! If you have a chance, I would listen to a number of the amps mentioned as I think that you will notice differences. The differences between amps may be more significant than the difference between the SE and balanced outputs on the Holo May.


----------



## Palyodgree

OceanRanger said:


> @Palyodgree congratulations on the decision to purchase 1266 TCs!! If you have a chance, I would listen to a number of the amps mentioned as I think that you will notice differences. The differences between amps may be more significant than the difference between the SE and balanced outputs on the Holo May.


It’ll be my third headphone purchase since November of 2020 initially I wasn’t too excited to use headphones however my perceptions were wrong .

yes I understand matching of transducer and amplifier I’ll check what I can out I just need a compass to point in the right direction. I just got a absolutely fabulous pair of XLR interconnects from AudioArt i can’t believe how much that tiny fragile signal was molested with my previous XLR brand of interconnects so I’d very much like to use them ,besides I have to take full advantage of Holo Audios balanced topology.


----------



## OceanRanger

Palyodgree said:


> It’ll be my third headphone purchase since November of 2020 initially I wasn’t too excited to use headphones however my perceptions were wrong .
> 
> yes I understand matching of transducer and amplifier I’ll check what I can out I just need a compass to point in the right direction. I just got a absolutely fabulous pair of XLR interconnects from AudioArt i can’t believe how much that tiny fragile signal was molested with my previous XLR brand of interconnects so I’d very much like to use them ,besides I have to take full advantage of Holo Audios balanced topology.


Ahh, I understand. The AudioArt cables look awesome. Please do let us know where you land with an amp.


----------



## littlej0e (Jul 2, 2021)

Solan said:


> I have now had the 1266 for some time, and have played with the pads. My best positions are somewhere around 12 O'clock, somewhat depending on how much bass I want. (I'm a real wide bulb-head). BUT the best position is when I manage to press it down a bit. The O-rubber rings pull it back up again. Any recommendations on where to find bigger ones? (And what is the default size called? I need to know so that I know I order larger ones.)
> 
> Another question: I have talked a bit with @mammal and do of course suffer from Bartòk envy at this point. Well, not envy, for I am really happy for him that he has such an awesome DAC. But I am wondering which DACs would do the 1266 and my taste in music the most justice _within my budget_. If I find something funkalantastically awesome, I will stretch myself to right past 5000 euros or 6k-dollars. But that's not for just "marginally better" but only for plain superior. Otherwise, my budget is more comfortably at half that. Any recommendations?



I think it would be very difficult to beat the Holo May KTE in this price range. Maybe a used DAVE + Mscaler if you can find a set on the cheap (and some would argue the May is still better, but I personally can't confirm this).

However, don't forget about the source. It made the biggest difference in sound quality on my system - more than any other component. I just finished building a fairly high-end system and If I had to do it all over again, I would purchase/upgrade/allocate funds in the following order:

- Source
- Headphones
- Amp
- DAC
- Power
- Cables
- Vibration dampening/treatments, etc.

Yep... I know some will disagree, but I would get the absolute best source I could first. The source affects literally _everything_ in your home: headphones, amps, DACs, earbuds/smartphone audio, dots/alexa/homepods, home theater systems, etc., etc. That's why it's called the source. Best part is, a great source will scale along with whatever you put in your system.

Anyway, just some food for thought.


----------



## mammal

Hello my AB-1266 friends, as an owner of this fantastic headphone, I thought it would be nice to compare to another TOTL headphone setup, Sennheiser HE-1. I spent today 4 hours with this headphone, which consists of a DAC+AMP+Headphone combo. I had heard it in London 2016, but back then it was just 30 minutes and mandatory "Hotel California" song, so I was not as fine tuned to high end audio as I am today (dCS Bartók driving AB-1266).




Some of you may know me and my sonic preferences - I listen to 70% vocal-less EDM, 25% vocal EDM and the rest is random nu metal, indie rock, synth-pop. Accurate music presentation is not one of my priorities, music enjoyment is. I never listen to classical music, so I have no clue how a real music is supposed so sound like. I am a kid who used to go to loud techno/trance parties, so my hearing is no where close to what other audiophiles have. This being said, I trained myself to pick up on differences between copper and silver cables, so experimentation runs in my blood. For some unknown reason to me, I gravitate towards "one piece all-in-one systems", like dCS Bartok, or Chord Hugo TT2, both of which I owned personally.



You may ask, why am I writing my impressions of HE-1 to AB-1266 forum? Because as an AB-1266 owner, I wanted to know how far off is a 60k headphone system, compared to 20k headphone system. Some of you will think that I am underpowering AB-1266 with Bartok, but worry not, I have Viva Egoista 845 SET tube amplifier on its way (should be here in a week or two), which I will review shortly thereafter. As many of you, I may not be able to afford to purchase HE1 today, or in a near future, that's why I was so intrigued when my dealer told me he will have HE1 for a couple of days and invited me to come over if I have time. I took this opportunity, refreshed myself on critical listening on AB-1266+Bartok, slept 10 hours, all in preparation to do HE-1 the justice it deserves.



Even though I listened to HE-1 before, I did not remember much. So I was going to it today with a couple of expectations. Since AB-1266 is the bass monster, and HE-1 is an electrostat, I thought I would not like its bass, and that I would find it weak. I love AB-1266 for its snappy/punchy/not-bloomy bass, especially useful on EDM songs I like listening to (like Eric Prydz - Moody Mondays). Another thing I expected to happen was electrostat's soundstage, I expected it to be spacious / grandious / very open and airy. And lastly, mids - I expected them to be life like.



Now, what did I get? How does HE-1 sound on MY music, to MY ears, compared to MY current setup? There were a couple of surprises, not going to lie to you.

Surprise number 1: HE-1 bass is as good as AB-1266, very fast, punchy, detailed and layered. If I had an unlimited budget, I would happily own HE-1 over AB-1266. Mind you, I still haven't tried AB-1266 on Viva Egoista 845, only tried on Hugo TT2 (having less bass) and dCS Bartok (having more bass). I tried Bartok with 3 different cables, stock, DHC copper and Lavricables silver, for bass, DHC copper is the best.

Surprise number 2: HE-1 is less detailed than AB-1266, I did not expect this, I thought nothing can touch electrostats. Mind you, this is on MY music, which is not high quality recorded classical pieces, rather synth-pop and EDM. If I was optimising for resolution only, I would choose AB-1266, especially on silver cable.

Surprise number 3: HE-1 soundstage is much, much, I mean, MUCH smaller. The presentation is very intimate, and not grandiose at all. This is a bad thing for most EDM songs, BUT a blessing for vocal heavy synth-pop. Depending on what you listen to, you want HE-1 over AB-1266 and vice versa. Adding a holographic amp like Viva Egoista 845 is likely to change this even further, let's see in a week or so.

Surprise number 4: Lastly, HE-1 mids are just gorgeous. Let me explain, I chose AB-1266 over Susvara, and I did not (on purpose) get Superconductor cable. Many feel that AB-1266 are a bit recessed, and that Susvara does a better job here. Many go and improve mids further with Superconductor cable, or elevate it a bit with a silver cable. I actually do not mind AB-1266 mids, for my cold EDM songs it just works perfect. HOWEVER, this was the biggest surprise to me - HE-1 mids are just so luxurious, so much so that I fell in love with mids now. It made me listen to songs from The Weeknd, which to me on AB-1266 do not sound that great (mids part, not bass or treble). I really thought I do not care for mids, I know that with Susvara, my choice was to choose AB-1266's resolution, bass and soundstage, over having "better mids", but HE-1's mids are top notch, better than Susvara to my ears, and the rest of HE-1's qualities (that I gave more points to AB-1266) are not as far behind, as Susvara in my personal opinion. I would like to illustrate the feeling I had with HE-1's mids - try and remember the first date you had with your significant other, how you went out, what ever it was, and how that led to a romantic dinner, and one day for to a "sleep over". What feeling did you just get? An intimate rush of endorphins? That is how I felt with HE-1's mids. I never understood people of optimised for mids (over bass/resolution/soundstage), but I think I do now, we are wired a bit differently, but since HE-1's other qualities are so close to  AB-1266, being "almost equal", the mids just take it over the top.



So what is there to write about a pair of headphones? Well, AB-1266 feel much sturdier, like they will last your whole life, which is a big plus. Comfort wise, to me AB-1266 are perfect, HE-1 was comfortable (surprisingly heavy), but the issue I had was that HE-1's cups are an amplifier, so they run quite hot and after maybe 1 hour, my ears were sweating a bit. No, it was not the room, the basement was quite cold (I kept my jacket on). Also the seude headband, even though comfortable, I don't think would last forever. Lastly, the ear cup is alluminium, but feels a bit plasticky and cheap. The rest of the unit (marble and tubes) are of very nice quality.

So in summary, what do I think of 60k system, vs 20k system? What do I think of Sennheiser HE-1, vs Bartok with AB-1266? Bass is surprisingly equal, couldn't make a decision solely basing it on the lower end register. AB-1266 wins with resolution/detail retrieval/holographic soundstage, as well as build quality and to me, comfort. What HE-1 shines at, is mids and vocal, so much so, that it does a better job than Susvara (from my memory), while lacking less compared to AB-1266.

All in all, this proves again how amazing AB-1266 is. Longer you listen to it, you hear its raw power. Sometimes this power needs to be tamed, but for that you have other components to play with, as well as headphone cables and interconnects. Do I think HE-1 is a good fit for an audiophile? I honestly don't think so. We want to play, tailor music representation to our liking/expectations. For that, raw powered AB-1266 is a better choice. But what headphone "system" would I recommend to my rich friends and colleagues, who have cars in excess of a million or speaker systems for half a grand? Just get HE-1, it is beautifully put together system, which also sounds good.


----------



## littlej0e (Jul 2, 2021)

mammal said:


> Hello my AB-1266 friends, as an owner of this fantastic headphone, I thought it would be nice to compare to another TOTL headphone setup, Sennheiser HE-1. I spent today 4 hours with this headphone, which consists of a DAC+AMP+Headphone combo. I had heard it in London 2016, but back then it was just 30 minutes and mandatory "Hotel California" song, so I was not as fine tuned to high end audio as I am today (dCS Bartók driving AB-1266).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow...awesome write up, Mammal! Appreciate you taking the time to do it!

This is also a bit shocking to me. I assumed the HE-1's would destroy the TCs in every category (except for maybe bass). I guess that shows how good the TCs really are. Really looking forward to reading your impressions with the TCs on the tube amp!


----------



## DJJEZ

mammal said:


> Hello my AB-1266 friends, as an owner of this fantastic headphone, I thought it would be nice to compare to another TOTL headphone setup, Sennheiser HE-1. I spent today 4 hours with this headphone, which consists of a DAC+AMP+Headphone combo. I had heard it in London 2016, but back then it was just 30 minutes and mandatory "Hotel California" song, so I was not as fine tuned to high end audio as I am today (dCS Bartók driving AB-1266).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow lucky man. Awesome post!


----------



## Solan

mammal said:


> Surprise number 4: Lastly, HE-1 mids are just gorgeous. Let me explain, I chose AB-1266 over Susvara, and I did not (on purpose) get Superconductor cable. Many feel that AB-1266 are a bit recessed, and that Susvara does a better job here. Many go and improve mids further with Superconductor cable, or elevate it a bit with a silver cable.


Great write-up, Mammal, and I can't wait to hear how you reflect back on this when you have warmed up the Egoista, and then compare. I am myself a vocal / mids man (even though a closet basshead), but it's always the _quality_ of the mids that I look for, not the _quantity_. Would you say a bit more about both of these dimensions for headphones you have tried? Particularly 1266 vs Susvara vs HE1?


----------



## mammal

Solan said:


> it's always the _quality_ of the mids that I look for, not the _quantity_. Would you say a bit more about both of these dimensions for headphones you have tried? Particularly 1266 vs Susvara vs HE1?


A very good question. I don't think I can speak to "quality", as the music I listen to is not really "real sounds", so I do not know what "quality" means for that context. I can maybe offer a bit different approach to your question, please approximate from there.

1) AB-1266 mids sound to me as if they were not meant to be in the spot light and when you ask for them, they sound a bit cold and recessed. As a shy person singing, or a person who did not practice long enough.
2) Susvara mids fit better to the spot light, but I feel that is because everything else takes a step back (compared to AB-1266, not to other even more mid centric headphones). So here it feels like more quantity, but with high level of quality. The problem I had when I auditioned them, was that it just removed too much from the other frequencies I was interested in, putting mids too forward for most of my music.
3) HE-1 has a different type of quality, as if you were in a small club that is full of luxurious silk cushions (you know the type they put on a wall) to trap all the reverb. There are not many other people in the club anymore (it's quite late), it's just you, and the band. You had a couple of drinks already so you feel comfortable, and then there is your favourite singer you had a crush on when you were a kid (Avril Lavigne, don't judge me, I was into skateboarding). And she is singing, while holding an eye-to-eye contact with you. She teases you, you lust after her. But then you catch yourself, sweating, feeling awkward so you go back to the band and you realise all of them are professionals, all of them play the same level of quality (trying to say that other frequencies are not worse off than mids). This is how I felt about HE-1 mids. With AB-1266 I prioritised other technical aspects over mids, with Susvara mids were better, but perhaps because other technical aspects were worse (to my ears), but with HE-1, it had it all, better balanced headphone. Hope this helps!


----------



## Sajid Amit

Speaking of Susvara vs TC:


----------



## littlej0e

Sajid Amit said:


> Speaking of Susvara vs TC:



AWESOME comparisons! Thanks, Sajid...


----------



## eee1111

they're here !!!!!!

ill get around to pictures when I get free time

as in probably never lol


----------



## Slim1970

mammal said:


> Hello my AB-1266 friends, as an owner of this fantastic headphone, I thought it would be nice to compare to another TOTL headphone setup, Sennheiser HE-1. I spent today 4 hours with this headphone, which consists of a DAC+AMP+Headphone combo. I had heard it in London 2016, but back then it was just 30 minutes and mandatory "Hotel California" song, so I was not as fine tuned to high end audio as I am today (dCS Bartók driving AB-1266).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome job! I always say let your ears be the judge. People assume because something cost more and is legendary that it HAS to be better, but your honest review has shown people that is not the case. The HE-1 sounds like a complementary headphone to the AB-1266 Phi TC’s based on your impressions. I really appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed and honest review.


----------



## MatW

Sajid Amit said:


> Speaking of Susvara vs TC:



Excellent review! I tend to favor the TC more lately, but I agree, they're both very good headphones. I'm going to rewatch this, there's a lot to unpack.

This review gets a big thumbs up!   (I was going to post a screenshot of you with the Raal, but I spared you...)


----------



## Solan

Sajid Amit said:


> Speaking of Susvara vs TC:



I like the way you've done the sound on your YouTube channel. Pleasant, as opposed to many others.


----------



## Sajid Amit

MatW said:


> Excellent review! I tend to favor the TC more lately, but I agree, they're both very good headphones. I'm going to rewatch this, there's a lot to unpack.
> 
> This review gets a big thumbs up!   (I was going to post a screenshot of you with the Raal, but I spared you...)


Lol. Thanks. 😂


----------



## DJJEZ

Sajid Amit said:


> Speaking of Susvara vs TC:



Will watch this tonight man!


----------



## Bonddam

Tube DAC's are my favorite. Only none tube dac worth the money is the May.


----------



## InTune321

Palyodgree said:


> I have decided to purchase the Abyss 1266 TC from a local dealer , I’ll have to replace my current headphone amplifier of course, my question is what to consider .The dealer highly recommends the Bakoon 13r however it’s single ended I want to use XLR out of my Holo May KTE dac for obvious reasons .
> 
> Anyway all this is in early stages I haven’t wrote the check yet though I’ll be grateful for recommendations of a amplifier in the 4-6K range new or used , thank you .


You may want to consider speaker amp options. I use my Chord Etude to power my TC’s to great effect. It also gives me versatility in have a 2 channel speaker system as well.


----------



## jlbrach

Palyodgree said:


> I have decided to purchase the Abyss 1266 TC from a local dealer , I’ll have to replace my current headphone amplifier of course, my question is what to consider .The dealer highly recommends the Bakoon 13r however it’s single ended I want to use XLR out of my Holo May KTE dac for obvious reasons .
> 
> Anyway all this is in early stages I haven’t wrote the check yet though I’ll be grateful for recommendations of a amplifier in the 4-6K range new or used , thank you .


I use my 1266 single ended out of my 13r with a converter for my balanced out cable…magical


----------



## Palyodgree

jlbrach said:


> I use my 1266 single ended out of my 13r with a converter for my balanced out cable…magical


Thank you for your response, the dealer really likes the combination of the 13r and 1266 , I will check it out.


----------



## DJJEZ

Sajid Amit said:


> Speaking of Susvara vs TC:



Your best video yet sajid


----------



## cangle (Jul 2, 2021)

Solan said:


> Any recommendations on where to find bigger ones? (And what is the default size called? I need to know so that I know I order larger ones.)


You can order something like this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GSKKHQM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. I use the red kit with the universal sizes. I don't know what the default o-ring size is but I know that sizes 214, 215, and 216 all worked for me with the 1266 although I ended up choosing size 214. I tried 213 and it snapped but I'm not sure I put it on correctly. 216 was too big as the headband would push against the metal frame and I didn't need that much height adjustment.

Edit: Oops didn't see all the replies about this before I posted my response


----------



## Gadget67

SteveM324 said:


> I just talked to Joe, the stock size #213.  The next larger size is #214.  I ordered 100 of each on Amazon for $17.60.  If you want just the stock size it's $8.80 for 100 pieces.  Kits can be cheaper but I don't need the other sizes.


I was curious about the “stock” O ring size and found this post using the search function.  Joe from Abyss seems to be a definitive source!


----------



## Sajid Amit

DJJEZ said:


> Your best video yet sajid


Thanks man. These are the only headphones I am very passionate about, lol, so that showed I suppose.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Sajid Amit said:


> Thanks man. These are the only headphones I am very passionate about, lol, so that showed I suppose.


I think your comparison was great. It was a 15 minute review, but it didn’t feel long at all. You hit the important points and kept me interested. I look forward to future videos


----------



## ctop

Sajid Amit said:


> Speaking of Susvara vs TC:



Well done man! Very enjoyable review.


----------



## Litlgi74

Sajid Amit said:


> Speaking of Susvara vs TC:



Excellent review...

Just a few words of caution... Be careful when bumping your rings on the finish of the TCs... The ceramic finish of the TC will scratch. Usually happens when adjusting the toe in.

Thanks for posting the video.


----------



## Orlok (Jul 3, 2021)

Sajid Amit said:


> Speaking of Susvara vs TC:



Nice review, man! Had to focus as there seemed to be a lot of "reverb" happening but I got the gist of it. My only recollection of the Susvara - when I had it on loan for a few months - was through the TT2's SE front-end which I know didn't do it justice so I can't offer my own personal judgment or opinion. Overall, I agree with everything you lay out on the review. The only thing I'd mention is that both HPs are so dependent on what amps are driving them. For me, I'm convinced that they both need to be driven by speaker amps to fully realize what they are capable of. I'm not saying at all that they _need_ speaker amps but I know I'm the not only one who espouses speaker amps to realize these HP's to their full potential.


----------



## Solan

A (possibly) silly question on the sideline: If I want to decorate my 1266s, which type of paint is preferable? (In my case, it will be to paint the R blue and the L red, so I can see which side is which when the light is low.)


----------



## Sajid Amit

Orlok said:


> Nice review, man! Had to focus as there seemed to be a lot of "reverb" happening but I got the gist of it. My only recollection of the Susvara - when I had it on loan for a few months - was through the TT2's SE front-end which I know didn't do it justice so I can't offer my own personal judgment or opinion. Overall, I agree with everything you lay out on the review. The only thing I'd mention is that both HPs are so dependent on what amps are driving them. For me, I'm convinced that they both need to be driven by speaker amps to fully realize what they are capable of. I'm not saying at all that they _need_ speaker amps but I know I'm the not only one who espouses speaker amps to realize these HP's to their full potential.


I agree, man. My experience with speaker amps (esp TOTL stuff) has been a revelation. 

On a different note: Sorry about the echo. I removed a lot of furniture in my room recently.

Did the review for fun, so did it in one take, sans editing. Maybe I will redo it later on. Thanks for watching.


----------



## Orlok

Sajid Amit said:


> I agree, man. My experience with speaker amps (esp TOTL stuff) has been a revelation.
> 
> On a different note: Sorry about the echo. I removed a lot of furniture in my room recently.
> 
> Did the review for fun, so did it in one take, sans editing. Maybe I will redo it later on. Thanks for watching.


Spontaneity is cool. It's why I love jazz!  Keep up the great work.


----------



## Palyodgree

Is there a adapter available to drive the 1266s off speaker terminals ? ,…Sajid I too liked your review


----------



## eee1111 (Jul 3, 2021)

Sajid Amit said:


> Thanks man. These are the only headphones I am very passionate about, lol, so that showed I suppose.


I did a comparison of the he 1000v2 and the 1266 tc and I noticed how the tc is almost ignoring some midrange sound. I know the he1000 isn’t the susvara but I’d imagine their sound is clearly somewhat similar just because same brand

With that said it doesn’t even matter at all because what the TC does right it does it so well it’s amazing.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Jul 3, 2021)

Palyodgree said:


> Is there a adapter available to drive the 1266s off speaker terminals ? ,…Sajid I too liked your review


Thanks @Palyodgree

I got Moon Audio to make a basic adapter for me with banana plugs on one end and female 4-pin XLR at the other.

You can get one from boutique cable manufacturers as well.

I initially used a DIY version.

Here’s what it looks like: https://www.zynsonix.com/Speaker-Amp-to-Headphone-Converter-Box_p_36.html


----------



## mammal

Sajid Amit said:


> female 3-pin XLR at the other.


Not 4 pin?


----------



## Palyodgree (Jul 3, 2021)

Thanks SajidI. I’ve been digging into this long thread i see I have a number of options for driving the 1266s and I will take my time,  I understand Holo Audio will be releasing a headphone amplifier they voiced using the Susvaras the distributor tells me it’ll be under 4K , could be a great contender,,.


----------



## Pastwa

mammal said:


> Hello my AB-1266 friends, as an owner of this fantastic headphone, I thought it would be nice to compare to another TOTL headphone setup, Sennheiser HE-1


Sorry if I missed that, but did you use signal from the Bartok also to the HE-1 ? The reason for asking is that the integral DAC in HE-1 is very mediocre, and a better external DAC makes substantial difference.


----------



## Litlgi74

Orlok said:


> For me, I'm convinced that they both need to be driven by speaker amps to fully realize what they are capable of.


Have you noticed that the _only people_ not recommending a speaker amp to drive the TCs... Are the manufacturers.


----------



## Solan

New O-rings. The old were the size shown with the pick in them, and the new ones (two sizes up) are the ones withe the minijack jacking them up. 






The fit on my head (I have bent the frame out just a wee bit) is now good. 





If you have not bent the frame out, I believe you might experience the headband rubbing against the frame. So for bigger but not all _that_ much bigger head, one size up will do the trick. For bigger heads than mine, three sizes may be called for. But for me, two seems to be the Goldilocks zone, as I now have the transducers right outside my middle ear rather than centered by my upper ear.


----------



## Sajid Amit

mammal said:


> Not 4 pin?


Sorry, 4 pin. Corrected.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Jul 3, 2021)

Litlgi74 said:


> Have you noticed that the _only people_ not recommending a speaker amp to drive the TCs... Are the manufacturers.


Yeah. There are risks.

But also, some of these manufacturers also sell HP amps.

Speaker amps, in my experience, have been this crazy wondrous world. Some of these manufacturers have 30 to 50 to 100 years of manufacturing experience behind them. There’s more competition in the two-channel amplifier world so you also get more bang for the back.

I have A/B-ed the Nimbus / GSX MK2 / a few other headamps with Pass / Accuphase / Gryphon / Luxman with the Susvara, and the stereo amps sounded technically more capable to me (though different from each other). 

To be precise, the Sus (and the TC, although I have tried the TC with a few but the Sus with several speaker amps) scales in terms of technical performance on the stereo amps. 

This is a subject matter where I have shared a lot of notes with @GoldenOne and also with @paradoxper.


----------



## vonBaron

Where you compare Niimbus?


----------



## adydula

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/tutorials/power-amp-adapter/


----------



## paradoxper

Sajid Amit said:


> Yeah. There are risks.
> 
> But also, some of these manufacturers also sell HP amps.
> 
> ...


Headamps are just in a elementary and concession phase in the commercial model.

It's also a simple fundamental of transformer and power supply reserve.

Do try a CFA3, it will match the stereo amps.


----------



## Litlgi74

Sajid Amit said:


> Yeah. There are risks.
> 
> But also, some of these manufacturers also sell HP amps.
> 
> ...


I am very happy with my Moon 600i... especially since I can use it for both my TCs and SR1a.

But @paradoxper is pushing me towards the CFA3. LOL


----------



## mammal

Pastwa said:


> Sorry if I missed that, but did you use signal from the Bartok also to the HE-1 ? The reason for asking is that the integral DAC in HE-1 is very mediocre, and a better external DAC makes substantial difference.


Unfortunately not, I just used the internal dac of the unit. I asked them about the dac, why they are using 8 of them, but some off the shelf chip and they said because some complex math on only using the best output of the ones running in parallel. Not sure if I paraphrased it correctly. But I hope you get what I mean.

Perhaps my assessment that HE1 is not as detailed as Bartok and AB-1266 is exactly because of the dac HE1 uses?


----------



## paradoxper

Litlgi74 said:


> I am very happy with my Moon 600i... especially since I can use it for both my TCs and SR1a.
> 
> But @paradoxper is pushing me towards the CFA3. LOL


Haha. I've pushed everyone I can feverishly towards a CFA3 and with the TC. This is non-negotiable.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Sajid Amit said:


> Thanks @Palyodgree
> 
> I got Moon Audio to make a basic adapter for me with banana plugs on one end and female 4-pin XLR at the other.
> 
> ...


Btw, just realized I posted the wrong link. You don’t need that box if you are running HPs off speaker taps of a SS amp.

You need something like this: https://lqicables.com/products/balanced-xlr-4-pin-female-to-speaker-taps-banana-plugs-pins


----------



## Gadget67

adydula said:


> https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/tutorials/power-amp-adapter/


I need to go back to school….


----------



## adydula

"pusher man...." sounds familiar!


----------



## Sajid Amit

Ranking of most headphones and IEMs I have heard/owned. Just for fun. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/amplifys-headphone-ranking-micro-reviews.958512/

Feel free to weigh in with your opinions / feedback.


----------



## MatW

Sajid Amit said:


> Ranking of most headphones and IEMs I have heard/owned. Just for fun.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/amplifys-headphone-ranking-micro-reviews.958512/
> 
> Feel free to weigh in with your opinions / feedback.


Very nice list! Nice pictures too.

There's more to explore on the IEM side, e.g. Fourte, Legend X, Traillii, Thummim, Erlkonig. You ain't done yet!


----------



## Solan

MatW said:


> Very nice list! Nice pictures too.
> 
> There's more to explore on the IEM side, e.g. Fourte, Legend X, Traillii, Thummim, Erlkonig. You ain't done yet!


And if the Abyss YouTube videos are a hint, Sajit may be testing Abyss IEMs before the new year. Fingers crossed!


----------



## smodtactical

Trance_Gott said:


> I had TC twice and sold them both. I had Phi CC and OG sold all. The mids are meh... The bass is distorted in higher volumes. Now I'm so much happy with the Susvara!



What did you drive them with? I found the tc much more resolving with a bigger sound stage and better imaging. Sus does have fuller mids though. However the top to bottom clarity is hard to ignore.


----------



## Frankie D

Sajid Amit said:


> Ranking of most headphones and IEMs I have heard/owned. Just for fun.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/amplifys-headphone-ranking-micro-reviews.958512/
> 
> Feel free to weigh in with your opinions / feedback.


Great job. As @MatW said all of the top guns in IEM land are missing ( Erlkonig, Traillii, Legend, Legend X, Fourte, A18 and S version, QDC VX and V14, etc).  It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on a few of them ( for me) to better understand what you are hearing.  

Maybe the top Grado HP as well. 

Please keep your impressions coming.  Tks


----------



## Gadget67

Sajid Amit said:


> Ranking of most headphones and IEMs I have heard/owned. Just for fun.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/amplifys-headphone-ranking-micro-reviews.958512/
> 
> Feel free to weigh in with your opinions / feedback.


Thanks for a nice balanced review.  The Abyss 1266 is the best headphone I’ve ever experienced; the Susvara was on my want list before purchasing the 1266 and I want to give them a listen at some point.  I also own the Utopia, Stellia and Clear; I believe the Clear is almost unbeatable at its price point and is (almost) equal to the Utopia in many respects.  Had I known how good the Clear actually is, I might have even been tempted to skip the Utopia especially considering the price difference.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Frankie D said:


> Great job. As @MatW said all of the top guns in IEM land are missing ( Erlkonig, Traillii, Legend, Legend X, Fourte, A18 and S version, QDC VX and V14, etc).  It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on a few of them ( for me) to better understand what you are hearing.
> 
> Maybe the top Grado HP as well.
> 
> Please keep your impressions coming.  Tks


Thanks for reading!

Not an IEM person at all...lol...but I will see if I can get more IEMs to review in the coming days and weeks.


----------



## MatW

Sajid Amit said:


> Thanks for reading!
> 
> Not an IEM person at all...lol...but I will see if I can get more IEMs to review in the coming days and weeks.


Then stick to headphones! 

I happen to enjoy both, but I can understand why folks prefer one or the other.


----------



## SuperBurrito

Gadget67 said:


> Thanks for a nice balanced review.  The Abyss 1266 is the best headphone I’ve ever experienced; the Susvara was on my want list before purchasing the 1266 and I want to give them a listen at some point.  I also own the Utopia, Stellia and Clear; I believe the Clear is almost unbeatable at its price point and is (almost) equal to the Utopia in many respects.  Had I known how good the Clear actually is, I might have even been tempted to skip the Utopia especially considering the price difference.


After owning the TC, Susvara and Utopia, I'm selling the Utopia and keeping the other two.  The TC and Susvara have such different strengths and weaknesses that the best one just depends on the type of music you are listening to at the moment.


----------



## mammal

You all talking about Susvara and Utopia, you forced me to contact my dealer for a loaner, tomorrow I will get them both, so that I can compare for myself!


----------



## Gadget67

SuperBurrito said:


> After owning the TC, Susvara and Utopia, I'm selling the Utopia and keeping the other two.  The TC and Susvara have such different strengths and weaknesses that the best one just depends on the type of music you are listening to at the moment.


…and, to expand on that it also depends on *how *you want to hear the music you are listening to.  For example the Utopia (I believe) shines with intimate small group music like a jazz quartet or solo vocalists.  There are times when I’d actually like to minimize heavy bass as another example.


----------



## DJJEZ

mammal said:


> You all talking about Susvara and Utopia, you forced me to contact my dealer for a loaner, tomorrow I will get them both, so that I can compare for myself!


----------



## FLTWS

I let my Utopia go 2 years ago (but it went to a good home where vocal music reigns) as the larger scale classical I listen too and the smallish ear cups combined with my large-ish ears eventually convinced me to wait for the next big thing(s) and I already had the Phi  for 3 years.The next big thing turned out to be the SR1a and now that I'm living with Susvara to go along with the other two, I think I have the triumvirate I want for my listening.
(Still hangin on to my HD800 & HD800S, classics that got me interested in hi-er-fi phones).


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Hi guys, I am happy to report that I finally (after 2years!) got the fit right, trying out various o-rings with the new headband and also the Dekoni nuggets placed left and right. I find them now VERY comfortable as far as headphones go especially since there is 0 pressure on my glasses. 

So, bottomline, I decided to keep my ab-1266tc for good now. What was I thinking . 

Another discovery: The AB-1266TC is the best gaming headphone I ever tried. the deep, visceral bass and the soundstage make for a super immersive experience. 

Oh- and still using my ifi Pro iCan and no desire to change.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jul 6, 2021)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Another discovery: The AB-1266TC is the best gaming headphone I ever tried. the deep, visceral bass and the soundstage make for a super immersive experience.


Now it's time for a A16 Smyth Realiser... take the realism to another level!


----------



## Pashmeister

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Hi guys, I am happy to report that I finally (after 2years!) got the fit right, trying out various o-rings with the new headband and also the Dekoni nuggets placed left and right. I find them now VERY comfortable as far as headphones go especially since there is 0 pressure on my glasses.
> 
> So, bottomline, I decided to keep my ab-1266tc for good now. What was I thinking .
> 
> ...


The lesson for new owners of the Abyss 1266 series is for you to invest in a bit of time and O-rings to get the fit right ASAP!

I agree about it being an excellent gaming headphone, except that I flip my head around when playing games because I'm an expressive gamer lol. But it's also the best headphone for watching movies. Marvel movies with these are fantastic.


----------



## JLoud

I will give a vote for the Dekoni nuggets as well. Helped with the hotspot I was getting. Also moved the fit up a little. Of course with the new headband you can do that with the o-rings.


----------



## Bonddam

Dragon Lvl3 is another level of sound. I like it better then Formula S and lot of tube options to choose from. My favorite are TAD 12BH7 and Amprexe 6922 gold pins. Amp uses top the line Rike caps and Mundurf.


----------



## Solan

Pashmeister said:


> Marvel movies with these are fantastic.


Now I NEED an extension cord! Not "would like" but *NEED*!   . (We really need a 1266-smiley for us wannabe techno teletubbies!)


----------



## genefruit

Solan said:


> Now I NEED an extension cord! Not "would like" but *NEED*!  . (We really need a 1266-smiley for us wannabe techno teletubbies!)






  in thread muck...


----------



## Pashmeister

Solan said:


> Now I NEED an extension cord! Not "would like" but *NEED*!   . (We really need a 1266-smiley for us wannabe techno teletubbies!)



I got the very inexpensive Emotiva BasX a-100 for an inexpensive living room set up specifically for PS5 and movies ☺️


----------



## SuperBurrito

What material is preferred for the o-rings?  The ones I bought are made of Buna-nitrile and break by themselves after a few weeks.


----------



## marcus2704

mammal said:


> You all talking about Susvara and Utopia, you forced me to contact my dealer for a loaner, tomorrow I will get them both, so that I can compare for myself!


I had both for a while and found that 80% of the time I reached for the Abyss TCs, as good as the Susvara's are they are there was just not enough use in them for me to justify keeping both.  I don't feel I have lost much by selling the Susvaras.  What keeps bugging me though is my demo time spent with the Diana Phis, which for me have a decent percentage of the sound quality of the TC is a gorgeous, compact package.   The Diana Phi were a headphone which I was very sad to see go.


----------



## mammal

marcus2704 said:


> I had both for a while and found that 80% of the time I reached for the Abyss TCs, as good as the Susvara's are they are there was just not enough use in them for me to justify keeping both.  I don't feel I have lost much by selling the Susvaras.  What keeps bugging me though is my demo time spent with the Diana Phis, which for me have a decent percentage of the sound quality of the TC is a gorgeous, compact package.   The Diana Phi were a headphone which I was very sad to see go.


Very fair point, only time will tell which headphone I will keep the longest for. So far AB-1266 is winning, haha.


----------



## Slim1970

Bonddam said:


> Dragon Lvl3 is another level of sound. I like it better then Formula S and lot of tube options to choose from. My favorite are TAD 12BH7 and Amprexe 6922 gold pins. Amp uses top the line Rike caps and Mundurf.


Interesting, that amp is on my short list for some tube flavor to go with all my solid state options. Glad you are enjoying it.


----------



## MatW (Jul 6, 2021)

SuperBurrito said:


> What material is preferred for the o-rings?  The ones I bought are made of Buna-nitrile and break by themselves after a few weeks.



See post by Joe with the specs:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-821#post-15908685

I'm also using buna-n I think, it's called NBR here. I haven't had any issues, so I guess the quality varies by brand and supplier.


----------



## SuperBurrito

MatW said:


> See post by Joe with the specs:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-821#post-15908685
> 
> I'm also using buna-n I think, it's called NBR here. I haven't had any issues, so I guess the quality varies by brand and supplier.


Excellent, thank you!


----------



## mammal

As I promised, after one day of Susvara/Utopia/1266 trifecta, here are some of my initial impressions (out of Bartok).




Susvara's realistic tonality made me rediscover gems like Linkin Park, that simply sounded too distant on 1266, so I did not enjoy them as much. I had expected to like their newer stuff with Susvara, as that sounds quite warm/relaxed, but thought I would like their old edgy stuff more on 1266 - boy I was wrong. To me, 1266 mids sound like the singer is singing from a hallway, from a bit of distance, where as with Susvara, it is front and centre and I cannot resist Chester's voice on Susvara. With 1266, they sound a bit cold and metallic, which I thought went well with his screaming songs, but Susvara proved me wrong. Since I am 90's kid, I listened to a lot of bands like these. But roughly 10 years ago, I switched to EDM instead (Deadmau5), and the only vocals I ever tested were more of a synth-pop kind (like The Weeknd). I am glad that my recent audition of Sennheiser HE-1 showed me how good mids can be, and had me rediscover my love for them.

Technically speaking, I am under-powering Susvara, with only 2.8 W into 60 Ohm - I will revisit this post once my Viva Egoista 845 amp arrives, which should have enough power for Susvara. In any case, I am finding 1266's soundstage more holographic and spacious. Also, I feel that 1266 can extract more detail from the song, especially if it is well recorded. On the other hand, older stuff that is not so well mixed sounds better to my ears on Susvara. After sharing these notes with some other folks, they told me that Susvara will open up (soundstage) and will pack better punch once driven properly, so I am definitely excited.

Some of you may have noticed that I did not really mention Utopia, why is that? To my ears, Utopia is not at the same level as AB-1266 or Susvara. I feel as if it lacked resolution/detail, which is very critical to me, no matter what "tonality" I am after. Utopia is the easiest to drive out of these three, so I don't think it was problem with the source. Also, all three headphones are burned in, and with Utopia I tried two different cables (stock and Moon Audio Silver Dragon). Also the resolution I am talking about is in the lower end register, the bass does not feel layered enough. What I liked about Utopia though is its super intimate soundstage, with quite nice mids (not as nice as Susvara though). This worked very well on some vocal centric intimate songs, but on the other hand, all other songs were presented this way, even if it was not meant to be. Unlike Susvara, which was able to render intimate for intimate songs, and open for open songs. 1266 on the other hand, tries to go always for open soundstage, which works magic on well recorded EDM, but not necessarily on songs I expect to sound intimate.

Now, which headphone would I chose if I could only own one? That depends on what music I would find most important to me. In the last 10 years that has been hands down EDM (often no real life sound reference), so I would chose AB-1266. For anything that is heavily based on real life sounds / human voice / natural tonality, my choice would be Susvara (even with 3W into 60 Ohm amp). I don't want to (yet) get into more detailed comparison, as I am worried that Susvara is being underpowered. I am extremely happy one can power it with Bartok (no issues with volume), and it sounds very good already. But I have a feeling, things will get better with Viva Egoista 845. Some of you laugh at me, but the reason why I don't have a Rossini DAC is that it does not have headphone out. It is very important for me that the core of my listening gear is a device that is all in one (streamer, dac, amp) so that I can transport it between rooms and still listen to good music. I don't expect to be carrying 30kg amplifier around, that one will sit on a rack, haha.

So all in all, I have a theory that AB-1266 and Susvara together are like a king and a queen, forming a well functioning kingdom, that would not work without either of those. If you can only own one headphone, chose one of these two (as long as you can power it properly, if you cannot, 1266 is easier). So far I considerer them headphone 1A and 1B, they are both that good. I think together they outperform HE-1, as EDM was better on AB-1266 and I suspect the rest on Susvara. If you can own multiple TOTL headphones, I think you should consider auditioning Susvara, and adding it next to AB-1266. Mind you, I still have Valkyria coming in on Monday, so let's see how that one sounds. Also worth pointing out, I haven't heard SR1a with HSB1and my memory of BHSE+009 is very faint. I tried LCD4 in the past as well, but that was simply too heavy headphone for me (and when I tried it, it was underpowered as it run directly out of Dave). So take all of my above comments with a grain of salt, as I have very little or fresh experience with other TOTL cans. Nevertheless, I hope this text helps AB-1266 owners, who are on the fence deciding if they should give Susvara a try. I think it is worth it, but it will come down to your priorities, on which you end up using more. Thanks for reading!


----------



## vonBaron (Jul 7, 2021)

You judge Utopia a bit too harshly in my opinion. So Susvary and 1266 TC are generally better but also much more expensive. In my opinion, utopias are a great price / quality / sound / comfort ratio. BTW Susvara on stock pads (and cable) are worse than Utopia for me.


----------



## mammal

vonBaron said:


> You judge Utopia a bit too harshly in my opinion. So Susvary and 1266 TC are generally better but also much more expensive. In my opinion, utopias are a great price / quality / sound / comfort ratio.


I was not pricing in value into my assessment at all, I will give you that.


----------



## vonBaron

If i want ultra SQ i choose 1266 TC too but if i want more musical and fun sound signature i always choose Utopia.


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> As I promised, after one day of Susvara/Utopia/1266 trifecta, here are some of my initial impressions (out of Bartok).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As usual, a good solid review; very helpful.

I would not be hasty about writing off the Utopia, but I readily admit I literally haven’t used it since the1266 arrived.  @Sajid Amit also likes the Abyss 1266 and Susvara and as I remember ranked them closely.  @ra990 also owns both and I pm’d him about the Susvara initially, but after further discussion, decided on the 1266 and couldn’t be happier that I did.  Of course I’ll be curious to see what you think when yo do additional testing when the Egoista arrives.  I’m sure others will be chiming in.

Keep up the good work!


----------



## Palyodgree

mammal said:


> As I promised, after one day of Susvara/Utopia/1266 trifecta, here are some of my initial impressions (out of Bartok).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I look forward to your further thoughts on the Susvaras & 1266 , I am a young man growing up with all of the influences of 1980s however my musical tastes go deep from 1950s Jazz and popular music to Electronic Trance including much of everything in between . Having experienced the enormous talent each decade has to offer is something you should delve into .Your country has produced some enormous talent , just to highlight a couple like Caroline Henderson Jazz singer and Jazz at the Pawn Shop one of the all time best recorded Jazz Lps of the 20th century. I think your selling yourself short using such fantastic components and besides I don’t know where your favourite music takes you in your mind when you listen to it though I’m sure you will discover some music that will touch you emotionally deep inside and that makes this hobby so much more enjoyable.

I will be making a purchase decision on either the 1266 TC or Susvaras , next month my dealer has the revised Bakoon integrated amplifier from the 13r model to the 23r new model I am looking forward to checking out with these headphones.


----------



## marcus2704 (Jul 7, 2021)

removed


----------



## OceanRanger

mammal said:


> As I promised, after one day of Susvara/Utopia/1266 trifecta, here are some of my initial impressions (out of Bartok).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for these thoughts @mammal . Your experience with the 1266s around mid's AND with poorly mixed music from the 80's and 90's is very similar to my experience. In fact I've found that I am listening to this music less and less because of the flaws exposed by the 1266s. I'm debating my next pair of headphones and your comments are helpful.


----------



## OceanRanger

Slim1970 said:


> Interesting, that amp is on my short list for some tube flavor to go with all my solid state options. Glad you are enjoying it.


Plus one on the Dragon Liii. It pairs wonderfully with the 1266 TCs. Similarly to @Bonddam I've enjoyed some tube rolling. The stock TAD 12BH7s are great. I've found some Telefunken 6DJ8's to be a bit more spacious and a bit more noisy. I've also been enjoying some RCA 12BH7s too. I'm still curious about how this amp will do with Susvaras and don't know how to think about the math, but that question is best for another thread....


----------



## SuperBurrito

mammal said:


> As I promised, after one day of Susvara/Utopia/1266 trifecta, here are some of my initial impressions (out of Bartok).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Excellent review, and I agree wholeheartedly.  Once I bought the 1266 and Susvara, the Utopia went into the closet.  I tried the Utopias again several weeks later but can't find a reason to keep them....I'd rather sell them and use the funds for upgrade cables etc.

When Peter at Double Helix Cables is back from vacation in a few weeks, I'll order some adapters so I can hook up both headphones directly to a power amplifier (Chord Ttoby).  Then there will be zero doubt about sufficient power.  

In the meantime, I end up using the Susvara more than the 1266 due to the lighter weight and higher comfort level (for me).  But maybe that will change once my Dakoni nuggets arrive later this week.


----------



## Gadget67

SuperBurrito said:


> Excellent review, and I agree wholeheartedly.  Once I bought the 1266 and Susvara, the Utopia went into the closet.  I tried the Utopias again several weeks later but can't find a reason to keep them....I'd rather sell them and use the funds for upgrade cables etc.
> 
> When Peter at Double Helix Cables is back from vacation in a few weeks, I'll order some adapters so I can hook up both headphones directly to a power amplifier (Chord Ttoby).  Then there will be zero doubt about sufficient power.
> 
> In the meantime, I end up using the Susvara more than the 1266 due to the lighter weight and higher comfort level (for me).  But maybe that will change once my Dakoni nuggets arrive later this week.


I haven’t banished my Utopia to the closet yet; I’m going to give them a comparative listen with the1266 with music I have enjoyed with the Utopia (think Diana Krall and Norah Jones).  I almost  purchased the Susvara instead of the 1266 because I was concerned about comfort and constant fiddling with head adjustments.  Glad I went the 1266 route, but maybe I won’t say that when I finally audition the Susvara…it never ends…(resigned sigh)…


----------



## cangle (Jul 7, 2021)

New amp just came in the mail to drive my 1266, the Flux Lab Acoustics Volot. It's a class A dual mono amp with 16W of max power. Only listened very briefly so far and I'm sure this amp will sound better with time and as I adjust to it. Some things I've noticed is that bass feels more full, textured, and controlled. Vocals, especially female vocals have more body too them, and music just sounds more real especially with jazz / folk / other instrumental music. The only negative is that I feel like I'm missing some treble energy that I had with my previous amp but this may very well change with time / as this amp warms up. Here's a picture and I will update as I listen more to this pairing:


----------



## ufospls2

mammal said:


> As I promised, after one day of Susvara/Utopia/1266 trifecta, here are some of my initial impressions (out of Bartok).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're on a good journey of discovery it seems dude. Enjoy them. Thanks for posting.


----------



## Bonddam

cangle said:


> New amp just came in the mail to drive my 1266, the Flux Lab Acoustics Volot. It's a class A dual mono amp with 16W of max power. Only listened very briefly so far and I'm sure this amp will sound better with time and as I adjust to it. Some things I've noticed is that bass feels more full, textured, and controlled. Vocals, especially female vocals have more body too them, and music just sounds more real especially with jazz / folk / other instrumental music. The only negative is that I feel like I'm missing some treble energy that I had with my previous amp but this may very well change with time / as this amp warms up. Here's a picture and I will update as I listen more to this pairing:


Nice amp. I guess that's the flagship. I found bass is dependant on transformers, at least that's the deal with tube amps. Looking at stereo shelf that Flux is big.


----------



## Bonddam

mammal said:


> As I promised, after one day of Susvara/Utopia/1266 trifecta, here are some of my initial impressions (out of Bartok).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Only thing that got me not to keep the Susvara is the bass compared to the 1266. Basically kept me from buying utopia. I'm down to the 1266 and TH900 mk2. Finding that planar manufacturers don't have the bass like dynamic. 1266 does because of the gap which resonates the bass. Only other planar I liked was RAD. Empyrean has bass like a dynamic but lacks the clarity of 1266 and only sounds really good on bass heavy music. So if I bought another headphone it be 1266 for no other reason to look at it lol.


----------



## cangle

Bonddam said:


> Nice amp. I guess that's the flagship. I found bass is dependant on transformers, at least that's the deal with tube amps. Looking at stereo shelf that Flux is big.


Yes, it is their current flagship solid state amplifier. They've made tube amps in the past but they no longer sell them although you can see them on their discontinued products page here. Definitely a big amp at 33lbs and 17 inches in length and width.


----------



## littlej0e (Jul 8, 2021)

mammal said:


> As I promised, after one day of Susvara/Utopia/1266 trifecta, here are some of my initial impressions (out of Bartok).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome review, Mammal (again)!

So then the question becomes what to own in addition to the 1266? SR1a or Susvara or both?


----------



## Solan

mammal said:


> As I promised, after one day of Susvara/Utopia/1266 trifecta, here are some of my initial impressions (out of Bartok).


Great review! One thing I have been wondering about, is the issue of quantity / quality. How does the 1266 fare if EQ'ed to boost the midrange?

As for soundstage, after some experience now, I find that for a few songs, I grasp for my old Grado RS1. Not because they sound better than 1266, because they actually don't, for any genre, but _because_ the soundstage is smaller, _because_ the sound is more intimate -- and maybe even _because_ the sound is not really as good (yes, a shocker, that one!). The 1266 is like having David Bowie or some other larger-than-life superstar in your house. Always on, always entertaining. But sometimes, you just want to hang out with your boring neighbour for a pint, and his dull conversation "Yeah, I think Rangers will win this year".


----------



## mammal

vonBaron said:


> If i want ultra SQ i choose 1266 TC too but if i want more musical and fun sound signature i always choose Utopia.


I absolutely see your point, but I think you should give Susvara a try and see if it replaces Utopia for you, in terms of being as musical, but more technical performant.



Gadget67 said:


> @ra990 also owns both and I pm’d him about the Susvara initially, but after further discussion, decided on the 1266 and couldn’t be happier that I did.


AB-1266 is an absolute beast, nothing I have heard can quite touch it. But it has its own way of presenting things, that simply work (in my personal opinion) better for some music over other. I definitely didn't mind starting with 1266, and I found the idea of owning multiple TOTL headphones silly. I own other headphones for sports/tv/convenience (like Airpods Pro and Max), but that was for "functional" reasons. I dismissed those who owned multiple TOTL pieces in the past as "you like collecting things, there is nothing wrong with that" and for that I apologise. The issue is that whenever I tried a different non-TOTL headphone, AB-1266 destroyed it in every single category, so I did not see a point of owning anything else, unless you wanted closed back or portable (that again, is a "function"). But Susvara opened my eyes - I was die hard EDM fan, and forgot completely about indy rock, vocal heavy synth pop and other genres of music I enjoyed in the past. I have also misunderstood other reviewers in the past, when they said "Susvara is perfect for acoustic music", I thought acoustic meant classical, which I found out may not be, now in the bucket of acoustic is any real life instrument (human voice for example) and suddenly, old Linkin Park sounds good to me again (also the fact that Susvara seems to be a bit more forgiving than 1266).



Palyodgree said:


> I will be making a purchase decision on either the 1266 TC or Susvaras , next month my dealer has the revised Bakoon integrated amplifier from the 13r model to the 23r new model I am looking forward to checking out with these headphones.


Good luck comparing, please let us know how you decided! Out of curiosity, if you are going to get Bakoon, are you going to be getting any after market (read "better ergonomics" headphone cable) and if yes, in what termination? The reason why I am asking is that most TOTL amps are XLR terminated (not necessarily balanced internally) so I always go for a balanced cable "just in case". But Bakoon is single ended, you still can get an adapter, but who likes adapters!



OceanRanger said:


> In fact I've found that I am listening to this music less and less because of the flaws exposed by the 1266s.


Yeah I know what you mean. 1266 has definitely steered me towards certain type of music, which I thought I liked more, but now I am revisiting my biases and starting to think I liked it because 1266 did it justice, not the other way around. Also, why should I be limiting music I did enjoy in the past, before I turned into a snob? Am I too up in my arse that I cannot enjoy something that made me happy when I was a kid? I certainly don't want that behaviour in myself, so taking a hard look now.



SuperBurrito said:


> In the meantime, I end up using the Susvara more than the 1266 due to the lighter weight and higher comfort level (for me). But maybe that will change once my Dakoni nuggets arrive later this week.


I am really sorry you struggle with the comfort, I know how it feels, was the same for me and Diana V2. Good luck with those nuggets!



littlej0e said:


> So then the question becomes what to own in addition to the 1266? SR1a or Susvara or both?


I think it depends on what qualities you are looking for. I have never heard SR1a so cannot judge with my own ears (yet), but from what I read, it is more about "clarity" than anything else. Some people also point out that they are not 100% satisfied with the lower end register, or that on bass heavy music (I suppose when played loud) it clips for them. The issue I have personally is that SR1a in order to shine requires its own amplifier (either from RAAL directly, or a speaker amp). This makes the endeavour of owning one expensive (kinda doubles the price), so I think I am just more curious than anything. Most of my music has a lot of bass (EDM of course, but also synth pop) so I am unsure how much I would use them in practice. I know the amplifier can be used for other amps as well, as it is quite beefy, so it is not that you buy an amp for just one headphone and that's it. The truth is that it all comes down to your preferences, there are fellow head-fiers that have much more expensive systems than I do (read Rossini DAC + Master Clock, a source setup for 32 000 EUR if bought new) yet they own only one headphone (I am sure they can afford a whole collection at this point). I think most headfiers agree, there isn't one perfect headphone (no, not even 60k HE-1) that would make every single genre shine. I honestly believe, one has to discover himself/herself and just run / audition many headphone systems in order to determine what is the one you enjoy most. That could be 6 headphone collection (1266, LCD4, Susvara, SR1a, 009S and Utopia) or just one headphone to rule them all (put here what works for you). The same goes with DACs (Dave considered "analytical", Bartok considered "musical", whatever those terms mean) and of course with AMPs well, do you own TOTL Wells Audio SS amplifier, Riviera, Viva, Woo Audio, Luuxman or Bakoon, or multiple different systems all at once (speaker amps plus headphone adapters, electrostatic setups or hybrid amps, or you even commission your own DIY T2) the choice is yours.



Solan said:


> Great review! One thing I have been wondering about, is the issue of quantity / quality. How does the 1266 fare if EQ'ed to boost the midrange?


To answer your question, I would like to remind everyone that I am currently (most likely) under powering Susvara. However, to my ears, 1266 has all the bass quality and quantity you will ever need, if you position pads properly (leaving a gap) you are pumping serious sub bass, if you get drivers sealed, you increase the "resolution" (to my ears at least). Susvara is definitely less sub bassy, but still packs a punch, but I expect that to improve further with Viva. Now for mids, I honestly don't think you can have V/U shaped 1266 and mid centric Susvara. Yes, you can EQ to a certain degree (increasing the quantity as long as headphone has enough quality, which both have) but you are still not changing the tonality. I just tried increasing mids on 1266 through Roon's parametric EQ and what I hear is less distance, more forwardness with the mids, so overall they are less recessed. BUT they still sound a bit cold/metallic, in comparison to Susvara. We can take it the other way around, and try to mimic 1266 on Susvara, by EQing Susvara in lower end register and a bit on the treble side, the result? You get more bass heavy Susvara, but it still does not tonally sound like 1266. I think some things simply cannot be EQed, else everyone would be using T2+009S and EQ profiles, chameleon-ing it to sound like any other headphone, haha. This brings me to another point, I would love to hear 009 on something like T2, to see how the mids really are (people say they are better than HE-1).


----------



## vonBaron (Jul 8, 2021)

mammal said:


> I absolutely see your point, but I think you should give Susvara a try and see if it replaces Utopia for you, in terms of being as musical, but more technical performant.


I heard Susvara 3x, last time with Dekoni FSS and i very like it! For sure i buy them soon or later. But still i want to keep Utopia till Utopia 2 don't come


----------



## helljudgement

Hello has anyone paired the 1266 tc with set amps? I have a eddie current studio b which is quite a powerful amp but not as powerful as the more popular wa33 so I'm not sure if it will sound underpowered. 

Not too keen in getting another amp specifically for the abyss so any impressions on tube amps will be much appreciated.


----------



## InTune321

helljudgement said:


> Hello has anyone paired the 1266 tc with set amps? I have a eddie current studio b which is quite a powerful amp but not as powerful as the more popular wa33 so I'm not sure if it will sound underpowered.
> 
> Not too keen in getting another amp specifically for the abyss so any impressions on tube amps will be much appreciated.


I use a Chord Etude. I have/had an existing 2 channel speaker-based system, and rather than spend more on an additional amp, figured I could use what I have. My system synergy is great and this set-up with the Abyss is a wonderful match.


----------



## mammal

helljudgement said:


> Hello has anyone paired the 1266 tc with set amps? I have a eddie current studio b which is quite a powerful amp but not as powerful as the more popular wa33 so I'm not sure if it will sound underpowered.
> 
> Not too keen in getting another amp specifically for the abyss so any impressions on tube amps will be much appreciated.


Gimme a couple of days and I will post my impressions of Viva Egoista 845, which is a 15W SET tube amp.


----------



## helljudgement

mammal said:


> Gimme a couple of days and I will post my impressions of Viva Egoista 845, which is a 15W SET tube amp.


Looking forward to your impressions. The viva is quite a beefy amp especially when considering my amp is outputting 2w into 32ohm. Hoping this is enough to drive these.



InTune321 said:


> I use a Chord Etude. I have/had an existing 2 channel speaker-based system, and rather than spend more on an additional amp, figured I could use what I have. My system synergy is great and this set-up with the Abyss is a wonderful match.


Sadly I don't own any speaker amp to drive these. Glad that you are enjoying these with your setup.


----------



## mammal

helljudgement said:


> Looking forward to your impressions. The viva is quite a beefy amp especially when considering my amp is outputting 2w into 32ohm. Hoping this is enough to drive these.


Do you know the delivery profile (curve) of your amplifier? For example, my Bartok is rated as 1.4W into 33 Ohm, yet keeps increasing (page 11) its power until it reaches 2.8W with a 66 Ohm. Another amplifier I had in the past was V281 and it scaled up to 100 Ohm where it delivered 5.6W, and Hugo TT2 that had its max delivery in the lower Ohm range (10W into 32 Ohm), yet what was relevant for AB-1266 was what it outputs at 47 Ohm load. I have tested 1266 so far with two amplifiers back to back (A/B, not blind) and even though TT2 is rated at 47 Ohm for about 7W, it did not drive 1266 as authoritatively as Bartok does (with less than 2W). So clearly power isn't everything, but I do understand your concern about underpowering your headphones with your current amp.


----------



## helljudgement

mammal said:


> Do you know the delivery profile (curve) of your amplifier? For example, my Bartok is rated as 1.4W into 33 Ohm, yet keeps increasing (page 11) its power until it reaches 2.8W with a 66 Ohm. Another amplifier I had in the past was V281 and it scaled up to 100 Ohm where it delivered 5.6W, and Hugo TT2 that had its max delivery in the lower Ohm range (10W into 32 Ohm), yet what was relevant for AB-1266 was what it outputs at 47 Ohm load. I have tested 1266 so far with two amplifiers back to back (A/B, not blind) and even though TT2 is rated at 47 Ohm for about 7W, it did not drive 1266 as authoritatively as Bartok does (with less than 2W). So clearly power isn't everything, but I do understand your concern about underpowering your headphones with your current amp.


In terms of delivery it is doing 2w into 32ohm, 800mw into 100ohm and 400mw into 300ohm. I do agree that power isn't the only metrics but my experience has always been with dynamic drivers and very little experience with inefficient planar. I have heard that most planar don't pair well with set amps in general with otl faring even worse so I am curious to see how the abyss would perform in this setup.


----------



## mammal

helljudgement said:


> I have heard that most planar don't pair well with set amps in general with otl faring even worse so I am curious to see how the abyss would perform in this setup.


I really have to educate myself more on tube amps to be honest, I have heard of these terms but have no clue of their pros and cons. Any reference reading you can recommend? Thank you


----------



## helljudgement

mammal said:


> I really have to educate myself more on tube amps to be honest, I have heard of these terms but have no clue of their pros and cons. Any reference reading you can recommend? Thank you


I have no technical knowledge about the amps. The stuff I know comes from past purchases and experiences with how various amps type sound on my setup. You'd find more resources on DIY amp build forums.


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## Hoegaardener70 (Jul 8, 2021)

Although I respect everybody's opinion's here, I find some discussions hard to follow , such as "it is hard to listen to rock and other genres with the Abyss". ... Ups - one great advantage of the ab-1266 tc is for me that it is super versatile, and it makes 80s metal, classical and other genres sound cool. But each to their own.

On another note, having just changed from a BA driver IEM to a more visceral one (Legend X), I realize that one of the aspects I MOST appreciate with the ab-1266tc is the physical feedback. This is - besides the sound - what makes this headphone unique and so very fun for me.


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## julien-hifi (Jul 8, 2021)

cangle said:


>


Hi,
When i saw your post about Volot, i was interested as it looks to me a great amp to pair with 1266.
I ended up choosing another amp, the Paltauf hpa-100 sp, to drive my abyss and also my speakers, and so far a very happy with the result. It ouputs an impressive 20w at 32 ohms…so close to the volot.
Seems we share the same dac by the way 



If you have more feedback after some time, i would be interested to read.
Cheers


----------



## Palyodgree

Mammal my preferences are leaning more so towards the Susvaras over the 1266s , the audio dealer is promoting his product line I’m sure the revised Bakoon integrate is wonderful driving either headphone the Holo May dac i have is balanced , I won’t compromise it using adapters . 

Holo Audio are releasing a new headphone amplifier they used the Susvaras to voice it with . I’ll enjoy the dealers hospitality and buy the Susvaras from him then wait for the Holo Audio amplifier to be released sometime this year , in the meantime I’ll buy a Topping A90 until the release of the Holo Audio Bliss. I have full confidence in Holo Audio to produce a stellar performing amplifier .


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## Polygonhell (Jul 8, 2021)

helljudgement said:


> Hello has anyone paired the 1266 tc with set amps? I have a eddie current studio b which is quite a powerful amp but not as powerful as the more popular wa33 so I'm not sure if it will sound underpowered.
> 
> Not too keen in getting another amp specifically for the abyss so any impressions on tube amps will be much appreciated.


Studio B might work well, since it's 300B.
1266 doesn't sound like itself on my DNA Stratus, but it's 2A3's and hence lower powered than Studio B.
To be clear it sounds OK, but a but constrained in stage and the vocals are further recessed.

WA33 is very good, but I'm actually preferring them on Solid State at the moment, an Original Cavali Liquid Gold, it's close and I could still swap back to the WA33, I think it plays more to the strengths of the 1266.


----------



## paradoxper (Jul 8, 2021)

helljudgement said:


> Hello has anyone paired the 1266 tc with set amps? I have a eddie current studio b which is quite a powerful amp but not as powerful as the more popular wa33 so I'm not sure if it will sound underpowered.
> 
> Not too keen in getting another amp specifically for the abyss so any impressions on tube amps will be much appreciated.


Studio B will not power the 1266 sufficiently as the Studio T did not.


----------



## cangle

julien-hifi said:


> Hi,
> When i saw your post about Volot, i was interested as it looks to me a great amp to pair with 1266.
> I ended up choosing another amp, the Paltauf hpa-100 sp, to drive my abyss and also my speakers, and so far a very happy with the result. It ouputs an impressive 20w at 32 ohms…so close to the volot.
> Seems we share the same dac by the way
> ...


I will definitely update with impressions after I have more time with the amp. Glad to see you like the Pontus II as well, I've been very happy with mine


----------



## mammal

julien-hifi said:


> I ended up choosing another amp, the Paltauf hpa-100 sp, to drive my abyss and also my speakers, and so far a very happy with the result. It ouputs an impressive 20w at 32 ohms…so close to the volot.


Never heard of that brand until I contacted my Stax dealer who told me that he is using one of their models for 009S. Insterested in hearing your detailed impressions/review when you get a chance!


----------



## mammal

Palyodgree said:


> I have full confidence in Holo Audio to produce a stellar performing amplifier .


My only issue with Holo is their tendency to release a new model/refresh every other year, which would drive my FOMO crazy if I bought into one of their DACs. Also does not help that they have always like 3 different “levels”, again playing into my FOMO of selecting the highest one. I just don’t like those business practices, irrespective how good the product can be. Am I alone in this?


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> My only issue with Holo is their tendency to release a new model/refresh every other year, which would drive my FOMO crazy if I bought into one of their DACs. Also does not help that they have always like 3 different “levels”, again playing into my FOMO of selecting the highest one. I just don’t like those business practices, irrespective how good the product can be. Am I alone in this?


You definitely aren’t alone feeling that way.  If I can get the “better” widget for a few dollars (or, insert your currency here) I almost always will.


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## julien-hifi (Jul 8, 2021)

mammal said:


> Never heard of that brand until I contacted my Stax dealer who told me that he is using one of their models for 009S. Insterested in hearing your detailed impressions/review when you get a chance!


Indeed, it’s not a famous brand like Chord, but it really delivers the goods.
The brand is from Austria, so customers are mostly in Europe i guess.
We are lucky in France to have someone introducing unknown brands which deserve lots of credit.
Indeed, Paltauf  also released an full tubes amp, the KHV-ESD, that can drive electrostatic headphones too. And they look amazing too.
Here’s a link, sorry it’s french ☺️
https://www.headonist.fr/products/khv-esd


----------



## mammal

julien-hifi said:


> Paltauf also released an full tubes amp that can drive electrostatic headphones too. And they look amazing too.


Yeah, that's the amp for 009S I will try them with!


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## Solan (Jul 8, 2021)

mammal said:


> My only issue with Holo is their tendency to release a new model/refresh every other year, which would drive my FOMO crazy if I bought into one of their DACs. Also does not help that they have always like 3 different “levels”, again playing into my FOMO of selecting the highest one. I just don’t like those business practices, irrespective how good the product can be. Am I alone in this?


It's a product strategy employed quite deliberately by many companies. You want a unit worth 400, but they have an ever so slightly nice upgrade at 500, and "FOMO" soon enough leads you to think of 500 as your new normal. But the company sells very few of the 500, because ... they also have a 650 unit, with some _really_ nice add-ons that you figure you really need now that you have normalized at the 650 level. So you look your wallet in the eye, and say "sorry buddy, this one I gotta have!" Of course, you might be the 650 customer, but the model they really sell a lot of is the full-feature model at 800...   But if they had had only the 800 model on the market, it would have sold less than 1/4 as much, since it is waaaaay too expensive for ordinary people ...


----------



## julien-hifi

mammal said:


> Yeah, that's the amp for 009S I will try them with!


Great, please share your impressions.
I have tried quite a few amps, xi audio formula S, Viva 845, benchmark hpa4, TT2 and more, but the Paltauf was the one that caught my attention, especially for the bass control, and the trebble was not too fatiguing which was more the case using a TT2 for instance.


----------



## mammal

julien-hifi said:


> Great, please share your impressions.
> I have tried quite a few amps, xi audio formula S, Viva 845, benchmark hpa4, TT2 and more, but the Paltauf was the one that caught my attention, especially for the bass control, and the trebble was not too fatiguing which was more the case using a TT2 for instance.


You got me interested now in Paltauf (especially if it can run both planar and electrostat). I am getting Viva 845 hopefully next week, and owned TT2 (which compared to Bartok was worse). Never tried Formula S with Powerman though, that combo eluded me.


----------



## mammal

Solan said:


> It's a product strategy employed quite deliberately by many companies. You want a unit worth 400, but they have an ever so slightly nice upgrade at 500, and "FOMO" soon enough leads you to think of 500 as your new normal. But the company sells very few of the 500, because ... they also have a 650 unit, with some _really_ nice add-ons that you figure you really need now that you have normalized at the 650 level. So you look your wallet in the eye, and say "sorry buddy, this one I gotta have!" Of course, you might be the 650 customer, but the model they really sell a lot of is the full-feature model at 800... But if they had had only the 800 model on the market, it would have sold less than 1/4 as much, since it is waaaaay too expensive for ordinary people ...


And now tell me who is more likely to not fall for that, a person who is content with what they have, or someone who can be described with these two pictures (time difference? 4 months). See? I rely on manufacturers being nice to my wallet.


----------



## Nostoi

julien-hifi said:


> Great, please share your impressions.
> I have tried quite a few amps, xi audio formula S, Viva 845, benchmark hpa4, TT2 and more, but the Paltauf was the one that caught my attention, especially for the bass control, and the trebble was not too fatiguing which was more the case using a TT2 for instance.


Paltauf are indeed an excellent company. Being in Vienna, I've had the chance to demo them several times and always come close to getting one of their amps.


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## lumdicks

mammal said:


> And now tell me who is more likely to not fall for that, a person who is content with what they have, or someone who can be described with these two pictures (time difference? 4 months). See? I rely on manufacturers being nice to my wallet.


A bit off-topic but also want to share the change of my setup in 4 months.


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## sn0gl0be (Jul 9, 2021)

Not sure if I’ve ever seen what the 1266 driver/diaphragm  looks like. But found a picture on the net for anyone interested. I think they are the only one’s doing single piece one sided magnet structure unlike the row of bar magnets other planar magnet companies use (Eg. Hifiman). 
EDIT: This is a broken driver, not representative of a new one too. Please ignore (though still rather cool to see the internails)


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## ufospls2 (Jul 9, 2021)

sn0gl0be said:


> Not sure if I’ve ever seen what the 1266 driver/diaphragm  looks like. But found a picture on the net for anyone interested. I think they are the only one’s doing single piece one sided magnet structure unlike the row of bar magnets other planar magnet companies use (Eg. Hifiman).


Thats a Phi, not a Phi TC, just in case people were curious. I think the one below _*MIGHT*_ be a TC (I'm not sure.) I'd ask Abyss if curious.

Also, opening your Abyss is a bad idea imo, defo not recommending people do so.


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## DJJEZ

lumdicks said:


> A bit off-topic but also want to share the change of my setup in 4 months.


When are you adding the 1266tc


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## sn0gl0be

ufospls2 said:


> Thats a Phi, not a Phi TC, just in case people were curious. I think the one below _*MIGHT*_ be a TC (I'm not sure.) I'd ask Abyss if curious.
> 
> Also, opening your Abyss is a bad idea imo, defo not recommending people do so.


Thanks for the correction. Edited my original post, it turns out these were tampered/defective drivers and not representative of the usual driver.


----------



## MWeston

sn0gl0be said:


> Thanks for the correction. Edited my original post, it turns out these were tampered/defective drivers and not representative of the usual driver.


Nah, there's nothing wrong with the driver in your picture.  DMS misspoke.  Here is a post with a really, REALLY defective 1266 driver. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-headphone-driver-pics-thread.202122/post-16303065


----------



## lumdicks

DJJEZ said:


> When are you adding the 1266tc


There is no dealer of Abyss in Hong Kong so I am not able to audition 1266TC. I have once tried the 1266PHI and impressed with the bass and soundstage but unluckily the weight and ergonomic were not working very well with me as I am having some problem with my neck.


----------



## qboogie

ufospls2 said:


> Thats a Phi, not a Phi TC, just in case people were curious. I think the one below _*MIGHT*_ be a TC (I'm not sure.) I'd ask Abyss if curious.
> 
> Also, opening your Abyss is a bad idea imo, defo not recommending people do so.


I kept hearing a high pitch metallic buzzing in my left TC driver at certain parts of songs. I suspected a tiny hair or dust mote was vibrating against the diaphragm. When I opened it up my suspicion was confirmed. It was worth checking for myself rather than sending it back for "driver failure"


----------



## helljudgement

paradoxper said:


> Studio B will not power the 1266 sufficiently as the Studio T did not.


Thanks for the confirmation. Guess I’ll have to look elsewhere for now.


Polygonhell said:


> Studio B might work well, since it's 300B.
> 1266 doesn't sound like itself on my DNA Stratus, but it's 2A3's and hence lower powered than Studio B.
> To be clear it sounds OK, but a but constrained in stage and the vocals are further recessed.
> 
> WA33 is very good, but I'm actually preferring them on Solid State at the moment, an Original Cavali Liquid Gold, it's close and I could still swap back to the WA33, I think it plays more to the strengths of the 1266.


It's actually not a lot more powerful than the stratus. It seems like most people are having better results with solid state amps so unless I'm planning to build a separate setup I don't think it's feasible for me to get the abyss now with my current equipment. 

The cost of running a WA33 makes it difficult for me to justify owning them alongside my EC and DNA amps but I am interested to hear one someday. Sadly Cavalli amps are no longer available else I'd have gotten the liquid glass and crimson. Fortunately I manage to get on EC last run of amps.


----------



## mammal

helljudgement said:


> Sadly Cavalli amps are no longer available else I'd have gotten the liquid glass and crimson.


There may be Liquid Tungsten happening in the future


----------



## lucasratmundo

lumdicks said:


> A bit off-topic but also want to share the change of my setup in 4 months.


Glad to see that I'm not alone in the speed of changes in my system! I went from a Schiit stack paired with a HD660s to a Topping A90/D90 stack paired with Focal Clear to my current setups (see signature) in about 6 months. The quest continues!


----------



## DJJEZ

lucasratmundo said:


> Glad to see that I'm not alone in the speed of changes in my system! I went from a Schiit stack paired with a HD660s to a Topping A90/D90 stack paired with Focal Clear to my current setups (see signature) in about 6 months. The quest continues!


Same here. I've upgraded like crazy in 2021


----------



## Palyodgree

You guys with both 1266 TC & Susvaras which brand does well recorded vocals best ? meaning most human sounding,…I haven’t listened to either however next month I will be checking the both brands out , until that day comes time is moving slooow,.


----------



## lucasratmundo

Palyodgree said:


> You guys with both 1266 TC & Susvaras which brand does well recorded vocals best ? meaning most human sounding,…I haven’t listened to either however next month I will be checking the both brands out , until that day comes time is moving slooow,.


Vocals sound more natural and intimate with the Susvara in my opinion.


----------



## Polygonhell

helljudgement said:


> Sadly Cavalli amps are no longer available


Yes i got enormously lucky to get mine, I was browsing USAudioMart for a used Bakoon 13R that had just been sold (before they were all the rage), and it popped up then and there, had been listed for less than 15 minutes when I mad an offer on it. It was the one Cavalli amp I really wanted, so it wasn't a hard call.


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## Polygonhell (Jul 9, 2021)

Palyodgree said:


> You guys with both 1266 TC & Susvaras which brand does well recorded vocals best ? meaning most human sounding,…I haven’t listened to either however next month I will be checking the both brands out , until that day comes time is moving slooow,.



It's a surprisingly difficult comparison, one that I think comes down to what you listen to most regularly.
My 1266 is still only a couple of weeks old, but it's an initially very impressive headphone, it took me this long to miss the Susvara (I listen to all my new gear pretty much exclusively for a week or two, then swap back).
Short version to me at least is Bass, Macrodynamics and with a slight caveat staging, go to the 1266, *with the right amp* Naturalness of presentation, timbre and micro dynamics go to the Susvara.
I consider detail to be a tie on my amps, I initially felt the 1266 had more, but having now gone back, I think it's just presented differently, and in some ways I'd argue for the Susvara on that point.
Both are comfortable headphones once you get past messing with the pads on the 1266.
The Susvara is more amp picky, I'll keep both, my D8000pro might be out of a job, but I still prefer the bass presentation on that headphone to even the 1266, it doesn't have the extension or slam of the 1266 but it's still the only headphone that can provide the level of articulation of bass effectively.

The 1266 doesn't murder average to bad recordings quite as much either.

I could see some people taking stances of definitively preferring one or the other, so if you can you should try and hear them, but the 1266 is the most immediately impressive of the two. The Susvara needs more listening time to really appeciate.


----------



## Palyodgree

Polygonhell said:


> It's a surprisingly difficult comparison, one that I think comes down to what you listen to most regularly.
> My 1266 is still only a couple of weeks old, but it's an initially very impressive headphone, it took me this long to miss the Susvara (I listen to all my new gear pretty much exclusively for a week or two, then swap back).
> Short version to me at least is Bass, Macrodynamics and with a slight caveat staging, go to the 1266, *with the right amp* Naturalness of presentation, timbre and micro dynamics go to the Susvara.
> I consider detail to be a tie on my amps, I initially felt the 1266 had more, but having now gone back, I think it's just presented differently, and in some ways I'd argue for the Susvara on that point.
> ...





Polygonhell said:


> My music library is wide and deep from 1950s Jazz and 50s popular to modern day electronic including a lot of everything in between however well recorded vocals has to have that living presence my main system does so well , Lamm mono blocks Gershman speakers , I want with a headphone system. The HiFiman I use now were purchased used and are my 2nd headphone I’ve owned it’s time to move away from the flaws of the 1000SE to another level.


----------



## Dynamo5561

DuncanDirkDick said:


> @cjarrett @MatW @Litlgi74
> 
> It's a 3d printed frame that takes 6 magnets to attach to the driver assembly. I fitted them inside the frame, so they wont be visible once the two parts are assembled. Second part attaches to the pad, the outer diameter is variable so it takes pretty much any pad out there. This version was for me so I can quickly swap pads. In my case the pads stay perma-mounted to the adapter ring since I've built that system for most headphones I own, so I can easily switch them around. If I make these for others, I'd probably add some latches to the inner ring to add more friction for a more permanent solution. Just hit me up if you're interested. Or if you want to print them yourself I've attached the stl files for the non latched 104mm version.


So picking up the idea (and the headphone from @DuncanDirkDick ) I did some more testing on different pads and other ideas I had. At the end I have now 2  variants that I prefer over the stock pads of the A1266.

The first one is, that I have created the magnet ring with air vents combined with thick pads, that elevate the bass a little bit and also provides even more of a soundstage. But we are talking about only 10 -15%. This sounds really really good. It is also totally non-dependant on how you set the headband up, as the thick pads will completely "press" against your head (no pressure, but they seal).










And the second variant is by using TH900 pads without the ventialed magnet holders. They are quite thin compared to the original pads, so give you room between the ears and the pads. Makes it really comfortable to wear and the loose fit gives you also a little boost on soundstage and at the same time the fabric on the pads tame the treble a little bit so you can use it for really long listening sessions.









Next on the list is to create a proper headband that makes the wearing more comfortable. The idea is to extend the contact area of the headband by using a thinner nappa leather and stretching the dimensions a little bit. The original headband has a very thick leather and also towards the edges it quirls and looses contact area.


----------



## DJJEZ (Jul 9, 2021)

After 16 weeks wait they are finally here!! The wait was absolutely agonising but man are they worth it..it took me a while to get the fitting and pads right but once I did. Wow. So damn impressive. The bass is my absolute fav part of this headphone, the slam is just insane. Thanks to @Abyss Headphones  helping me the last few weeks work out when I was finally going to get my pair.

I upgraded from a Hifiman arya. At one point in time I was debating between HE1000SE/utopia/LCD4 but after reading reviews of the 1266tc I knew it was the headphone for me! (Susvara Is also on wants list)

I also bought a formula S and powerman recently from an amazing member on this forum and also have a DAVE on home demo so I'm gonna be busy for the next few weeks comparing everything. I'm also eager to hear a bartok and holo may KTE later this year. I plan to try a bunch of different gear to find what works for me and excited to discuss it with everyone on this forum!

I will report back with more impressions and comparisons in time but for now it's time to get the headphones burnt in. Thanks for reading


----------



## MatW

DJJEZ said:


> After 16 weeks wait they are finally here!! The wait was absolutely agonising but man are they worth it..it took me a while to get the fitting and pads right but once I did. Wow. So damn impressive. The bass is my absolute fav part of this headphone, the slam is just insane. Thanks to @Abyss Headphones  helping me last few weeks work out when I was finally going to get my pair.
> 
> I upgraded from a Hifiman arya. At one point in time I was debating between HE1000SE/utopia/LCD4 but after reading reviews of the 1266tc I knew it was the headphone for me! (Susvara Is also on wants list)
> 
> ...


I'm so glad you finally got yours! Instant like before even reading your post fully... 😊. You now have the best headphones in the world IMHO. Enjoy!!


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> After 16 weeks wait they are finally here!! The wait was absolutely agonising but man are they worth it..it took me a while to get the fitting and pads right but once I did. Wow. So damn impressive. The bass is my absolute fav part of this headphone, the slam is just insane. Thanks to @Abyss Headphones  helping me last few weeks work out when I was finally going to get my pair.
> 
> I upgraded from a Hifiman arya. At one point in time I was debating between HE1000SE/utopia/LCD4 but after reading reviews of the 1266tc I knew it was the headphone for me! (Susvara Is also on wants list)
> 
> ...


Congratulations!  Let the additional spending begin!


----------



## SuperBurrito

DJJEZ said:


> After 16 weeks wait they are finally here!! The wait was absolutely agonising but man are they worth it..it took me a while to get the fitting and pads right but once I did. Wow. So damn impressive. The bass is my absolute fav part of this headphone, the slam is just insane. Thanks to @Abyss Headphones  helping me the last few weeks work out when I was finally going to get my pair.
> 
> I upgraded from a Hifiman arya. At one point in time I was debating between HE1000SE/utopia/LCD4 but after reading reviews of the 1266tc I knew it was the headphone for me! (Susvara Is also on wants list)
> 
> ...


Nice setup my man!  I know we're all chasing perfection in this hobby but you could easily stop there.  Enjoy!


----------



## jlbrach

ah yes, he could stop...but lol


----------



## Frankie D

DJJEZ said:


> After 16 weeks wait they are finally here!! The wait was absolutely agonising but man are they worth it..it took me a while to get the fitting and pads right but once I did. Wow. So damn impressive. The bass is my absolute fav part of this headphone, the slam is just insane. Thanks to @Abyss Headphones  helping me the last few weeks work out when I was finally going to get my pair.
> 
> I upgraded from a Hifiman arya. At one point in time I was debating between HE1000SE/utopia/LCD4 but after reading reviews of the 1266tc I knew it was the headphone for me! (Susvara Is also on wants list)
> 
> ...


Really nice.  They look great on that stand.


----------



## Gadget67

Frankie D said:


> Really nice.  They look great on that stand.


They’d look better on his head with Superconductor cables plugged into that Powerman amp…


----------



## DJJEZ (Jul 9, 2021)

SuperBurrito said:


> Nice setup my man!  I know we're all chasing perfection in this hobby but you could easily stop there.  Enjoy!


I could but I honestly blame the majority of the regular posters on this forum lmao you know who you are! I really enjoy the discussions and trying different things. I don't believe in absolute perfection especially in this hobby


----------



## Litlgi74

Dynamo5561 said:


> So picking up the idea (and the headphone from @DuncanDirkDick ) I did some more testing on different pads and other ideas I had. At the end I have now 2  variants that I prefer over the stock pads of the A1266.
> 
> The first one is, that I have created the magnet ring with air vents combined with thick pads, that elevate the bass a little bit and also provides even more of a soundstage. But we are talking about only 10 -15%. This sounds really really good. It is also totally non-dependant on how you set the headband up, as the thick pads will completely "press" against your head (no pressure, but they seal).
> 
> ...


Can you show us the frame protector you've made?


----------



## mammal

Palyodgree said:


> You guys with both 1266 TC & Susvaras which brand does well recorded vocals best ? meaning most human sounding,…I haven’t listened to either however next month I will be checking the both brands out , until that day comes time is moving slooow,.





lucasratmundo said:


> Vocals sound more natural and intimate with the Susvara in my opinion.


Even my under powered Susvara have better vocals than 1266, no question about that to my ears. Not as good as HE-1, but that's to be expected. If you only care about vocals (or mids in general), the way I would describe the difference is that 1266 is a bit "distant" as if the singer was singing from a hallway, the mids are recessed and sometimes a bit cold. On well recorded intimate songs it sound good, but not as good as Susvara, plus Susvara is more forgiving on the rest. Hope this helps.


----------



## Arion128 (Jul 10, 2021)

anyone know of any discount codes for abyss website? Thanks


----------



## Solan

Arion128 said:


> anyone know of any discount codes for abyss website? Thanks


Not that I know of. But the dealers sell at the same price as the Abyss website, so you might try asking a dealer instead.


----------



## Arion128

Thanks


----------



## Arion128

Solan said:


> Not that I know of. But the dealers sell at the same price as the Abyss website, so you might try asking a dealer instead.


Thanks for the reply solan. I checked the dealers and they do offer a slight 5 percent off. However due to the fact that I am located in HK. That means if I buy it that way. They only offer 1 year warranty only and build time is like 3 months. But if I order from Abyss, 3 years warranty at full price but 3 weeks build time only. Looking at maybe buying from abyss. Just saw at the checkout that there is a coupon code, just curious if someone had a code as to help out. Thanks anyway.


----------



## Dynamo5561

Litlgi74 said:


> Can you show us the frame protector you've made?


Sure, but all of the parts I have made are still in testing and they have to be seen as prototypes. I am not a CAD expert nor do I have prodct development knowhow. When I am 100% confident with the parts, I will also publish the files here so you can edit and print for yourself. If you are already interested, I can send you the files via PM.

This is the frame protector:










It holds quite well, but can be still improved. I have some ideas but not so much time   But I will continue on it. The printed parts are printed on speed settings:


----------



## Litlgi74

Dynamo5561 said:


> Sure, but all of the parts I have made are still in testing and they have to be seen as prototypes. I am not a CAD expert nor do I have prodct development knowhow. When I am 100% confident with the parts, I will also publish the files here so you can edit and print for yourself. If you are already interested, I can send you the files via PM.
> 
> This is the frame protector:
> 
> ...


Thanks for getting back to us.. looks awesome. 

This is needed for anyone that wears rings... The finish is very easily marred by my wedding ring if I don't pay enough attention when adjusting the toe in.


----------



## MatW

Litlgi74 said:


> Thanks for getting back to us.. looks awesome.
> 
> This is needed for anyone that wears rings... The finish is very easily marred by my wedding ring if I don't pay enough attention when adjusting the toe in.


Maybe divorce as a solution to that? Or eat more. I gained too much weight to wear my wedding ring... Oops.. 😊


----------



## paradoxper

Arion128 said:


> Thanks for the reply solan. I checked the dealers and they do offer a slight 5 percent off. However due to the fact that I am located in HK. That means if I buy it that way. They only offer 1 year warranty only and build time is like 3 months. But if I order from Abyss, 3 years warranty at full price but 3 weeks build time only. Looking at maybe buying from abyss. Just saw at the checkout that there is a coupon code, just curious if someone had a code as to help out. Thanks anyway.


You should find a better dealer. I'm a little tired of saying so. Ha.


----------



## Litlgi74

MatW said:


> I gained too much weight to wear my wedding ring... Oops.. 😊


Darn coronavirus


----------



## Gadget67

Arion128 said:


> Thanks for the reply solan. I checked the dealers and they do offer a slight 5 percent off. However due to the fact that I am located in HK. That means if I buy it that way. They only offer 1 year warranty only and build time is like 3 months. But if I order from Abyss, 3 years warranty at full price but 3 weeks build time only. Looking at maybe buying from abyss. Just saw at the checkout that there is a coupon code, just curious if someone had a code as to help out. Thanks anyway.


I purchased from a dealer and my headphones were shipped directly from Abyss.  If you use a dealer rather than Abyss all you need to do is go to the Abyss site and “apply” for the three year warranty.  Here’s a link From Abyss which explains it.

https://abyss-headphones.com/pages/abyss-warranty-information


----------



## julien-hifi

Hi,
Wondering how you transport if needed your TC, something convenient?
Thanks


----------



## mammal

Gadget67 said:


> I purchased from a dealer and my headphones were shipped directly from Abyss. If you use a dealer rather than Abyss all you need to do is go to the Abyss site and “apply” for the three year warranty. Here’s a link From Abyss which explains it.
> 
> https://abyss-headphones.com/pages/abyss-warranty-information


Did you ever get confirmation from Abyss that they accept the warranty registration? As the last step of their online form they say they will contact you within 2-4 weeks, but I have not received anything for either Diana or 1266. With Chord or dCS, I always received a confirmation from them.


----------



## MatW

mammal said:


> Did you ever get confirmation from Abyss that they accept the warranty registration? As the last step of their online form they say they will contact you within 2-4 weeks, but I have not received anything for either Diana or 1266. With Chord or dCS, I always received a confirmation from them.


Yes, I received a confirmation email.


----------



## genefruit

mammal said:


> Did you ever get confirmation from Abyss that they accept the warranty registration? As the last step of their online form they say they will contact you within 2-4 weeks, but I have not received anything for either Diana or 1266. With Chord or dCS, I always received a confirmation from them.


In my case I wrote back to them to 2 weeks after submission to confirm.  They responded in acknowledgement.


----------



## stemiki (Jul 10, 2021)

They send you an email like this:

Hi Stefano,

The email is to confirm your 3 year warranty for your AB-266 Phi TC serial number.........

Thank you!
The ABYSS Team


----------



## Stereolab42 (Jul 10, 2021)

WA234 has shipped, unboxing on Friday assuming Fedex doesn't play drop-kick with the (probably) 80-pound packages. Gonna be bananas. Will probably spend an hour testing with my old Abyss and other headphones to make sure nothing is broken to the extent where it would fry anything, then on to the TC. I'm not so subjectivist to believe it's going to be a huge leap over my WA5, I'd be happy with a small improvement plus the prettier jewelry on my desktop (and the ability to use tubes from the 1920s!)


----------



## Roasty

Stereolab42 said:


> WA234 has shipped, unboxing on Friday assuming Fedex doesn't play drop-kick with the (probably) 80-pound packages. Gonna be bananas. Will probably spend an hour testing with my old Abyss and other headphones to make sure nothing is broken to the extent where it would fry anything, then on to the TC. I'm not so subjectivist to believe it's going to be a huge leap over my WA5, I'd be happy with a small improvement plus the prettier jewelry on my desktop (and the ability to use tubes from the 1920s!)



Congrats man! I've not seen the wa234 out in the wild.. The one time I saw it and also tried it was several years ago in the shop when I was purchasing an LCD2.


----------



## Stereolab42

Roasty said:


> Congrats man! I've not seen the wa234 out in the wild.. The one time I saw it and also tried it was several years ago in the shop when I was purchasing an LCD2.


There's a few owners I'm aware of, all extremely eccentric. Google around and you'll see. You have to be nuts to own this amp.


----------



## Arion128

Gadget67 said:


> I purchased from a dealer and my headphones were shipped directly from Abyss.  If you use a dealer rather than Abyss all you need to do is go to the Abyss site and “apply” for the three year warranty.  Here’s a link From Abyss which explains it.
> 
> https://abyss-headphones.com/pages/abyss-warranty-information


ok, thanks for your help, much appreciated everyone


----------



## mammal

Stereolab42 said:


> There's a few owners I'm aware of, all extremely eccentric. Google around and you'll see. You have to be nuts to own this amp.


Congrats on the amp! How are you going to place it on your table? I was imagining left channel on left side, right on the right side and if your 1266 cable is stock/supercondactor (meaning separate L and R), you can route them to left and right like a mad man🙃


----------



## Solan

A little paint job to make it easier to put on the headphones the right way, even in poorly lit conditions. I commissioned the work to my daughter. But first, make sure the essentials were all safe from the paint:





Bronze and silver for each their sides. Model paint.

Then her skillful hands applied the paint to the letters.




Close-up of the finished letters:









And finally when the paint had dried, the headphones are ready to use.


----------



## Tarttett

mammal said:


> Congrats on the amp! How are you going to place it on your table? I was imagining left channel on left side, right on the right side and if your 1266 cable is stock/supercondactor (meaning separate L and R), you can route them to left and right like a mad man🙃


@Stereolab42

I would possess an interest to be able to see that configuration.


----------



## Stereolab42

Tarttett said:


> @Stereolab42
> 
> I would possess an interest to be able to see that configuration.


Unfortunately all my cables are sleeved together so I'm planning to have the two monoblocks right next to each other. I have a Y-adapter I got from Double Helix that will combine the two 3-pin XLRs into a 4-pin XLR; all my cables will then hook to that.


----------



## Tarttett

Stereolab42 said:


> Unfortunately all my cables are sleeved together so I'm planning to have the two monoblocks right next to each other. I have a Y-adapter I got from Double Helix that will combine the two 3-pin XLRs into a 4-pin XLR; all my cables will then hook to that.


Hopefully somebody within this thread would consider to volunteer to send their cables for you, for you to be able to take that picture, for us.


----------



## Stereolab42

Tarttett said:


> Hopefully somebody within this thread would consider to volunteer to send their cables for you, for you to be able to take that picture, for us.


I will not refuse any offer of a free pair of Superconductors. 😂


----------



## mammal

Viva Egoista 845 has finally landed, let's see if it sounds better than Bartók directly.


----------



## cangle

mammal said:


> Viva Egoista 845 has finally landed, let's see if it sounds better than Bartók directly.


Hope you enjoy it, looks like an impressive amp. I've seen it in pictures but I didn't realize how big it was until I saw your picture with headphones for scale.


----------



## mammal

cangle said:


> Hope you enjoy it, looks like an impressive amp. I've seen it in pictures but I didn't realize how big it was until I saw your picture with headphones for scale.


It is an impressive unit, so much so that I am considering keeping it even if it does not sound good, just to look at it, how pretty it is, haha. Just kidding, I don't have that type of cash to spend on a paper weight. It must sound better than Bartok direct, or else I am returning it. Good that I have Susvara on loan here as well, so that I can see if 2.8W into 66 Ohm Bartok is sufficient, or one really needs more power, which Viva does provide.


----------



## Articnoise

mammal said:


> Viva Egoista 845 has finally landed, let's see if it sounds better than Bartók directly.



I think you will love it and really appreciate Susvara, but also Abyss, much more with it than direct out of Bartók. All in one has its limits, even if they are made by DCS


----------



## Palyodgree

mammal said:


> Viva Egoista 845 has finally landed, let's see if it sounds better than Bartók directly.


I had Viva integrated driving high efficiency horn speakers about twenty years ago and have listened to other Viva amplifiers occasionally during visits to a dealer . I think you will love the midrange produced with the Viva particularly well recorded vocals are a real stand out , some female vocals are so very seductive, the timbre and tone is so much more realistic sounding then many amplifier speaker combinations I’ve heard and I think will be interesting with the 1266s.


----------



## carboncopy

mammal said:


> Viva Egoista 845 has finally landed, let's see if it sounds better than Bartók directly.


What kind of headphone connections does it have? Do I see XLR there?


----------



## Jon L

mammal said:


> Viva Egoista 845 has finally landed, let's see if it sounds better than Bartók directly.



I wonder what voltage Viva is driving the 845 tube with.  It can be as high as 1200V, and since I'm a scary cat, I'd be a little nervous about having my face that close to that tube, hardwired


----------



## mammal

Jon L said:


> I wonder what voltage Viva is driving the 845 tube with. It can be as high as 1200V, and since I'm a scary cat, I'd be a little nervous about having my face that close to that tube, hardwired


Well, if you do not hear from me ever again, you know what happened 🙃 



carboncopy said:


> What kind of headphone connections does it have? Do I see XLR there?


It is a single ended amplifier internally, but offers XLRs ins and outs for convienence.


----------



## carboncopy

mammal said:


> Well, if you do not hear from me ever again, you know what happened 🙃
> 
> 
> It is a single ended amplifier internally, but offers XLRs ins and outs for convienence.


Thanks! I just never saw one with XLR before.


----------



## mammal

carboncopy said:


> Thanks! I just never saw one with XLR before.


It’s their MKII version, not sure why they never bothered with updating their website, I guess as it looks “less clean”.


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> Viva Egoista 845 has finally landed, let's see if it sounds better than Bartók directly.


OMG!!!  That thing is huge!!!  Very cool looking though; hope it works out


----------



## Gadget67

@mammal I played with the picture to tease out more front panel detail.


----------



## mammal

Gadget67 said:


> @mammal I played with the picture to tease out more front panel detail.


Oh, I am so sorry that I did not include better pics. Here is one from when I was putting it together.


----------



## number1sixerfan

mammal said:


> Viva Egoista 845 has finally landed, let's see if it sounds better than Bartók directly.




This amp just looks so amazing. I'll be eager to see your impressions. Considering their STX version for Stax potentially. Congrats!


----------



## mammal

number1sixerfan said:


> Considering their STX version for Stax potentially. Congrats!


I don't know where I read it, but someone said that STX with Shangri-la Sr was the best combo said person ever heard (and Vivaldi was their source).


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> Oh, I am so sorry that I did not include better pics. Here is one from when I was putting it together.


Ha!  No need to be sorry!  I was just playing around to see more of it.  Very impressive; did the white gloves come with it?


----------



## mammal

Gadget67 said:


> Ha! No need to be sorry! I was just playing around to see more of it. Very impressive; *did the white gloves come with it?*


Actually yes, they are even Viva branded. The pain on the amp is really something special. The pictures do not do it justice, this particular colour is Porsche Blue and it really is the same metallic colour they use on those cars. I will try to take some better pictures.


----------



## Stereolab42

mammal said:


> Viva Egoista 845 has finally landed, let's see if it sounds better than Bartók directly.


One of the amps I strongly considered as a WA234 alternative, but not to the point of demoing one. From what I understand there is no gain control. I imagine you get plenty of volume knob play with a TC or Susvara, but have you tried it with much more sensitive headphones yet? What is that like in terms of noise floor and volume control?


----------



## mammal

Stereolab42 said:


> One of the amps I strongly considered as a WA234 alternative, but not to the point of demoing one. From what I understand there is no gain control. I imagine you get plenty of volume knob play with a TC or Susvara, but have you tried it with much more sensitive headphones yet? What is that like in terms of noise floor and volume control?


Very easy for me to do gain, as with Bartok you can configure line out to be 0.2, 0.6, 2.0 or 6.0 V. This way, I can always ensure I get a good play in volume control. For example, with Spirit Torino Valkyria or Focal Utopia, I set it to 0.6 and I play around 9 to 12 o'clock. For Susvara and TC, I set Bartok to 2.0 and I get the same volume range. if I wanted to play from 10 to 14, I would just go one tier lower.


----------



## SalR406

mammal said:


> Actually yes, they are even Viva branded. The pain on the amp is really something special. The pictures do not do it justice, this particular colour is Porsche Blue and it really is the same metallic colour they use on those cars. I will try to take some better pictures.


Great color choice.  Looks fantastic.


----------



## Stereolab42

mammal said:


> Very easy for me to do gain, as with Bartok you can configure line out to be 0.2, 0.6, 2.0 or 6.0 V. This way, I can always ensure I get a good play in volume control. For example, with Spirit Torino Valkyria or Focal Utopia, I set it to 0.6 and I play around 9 to 12 o'clock. For Susvara and TC, I set Bartok to 2.0 and I get the same volume range. if I wanted to play from 10 to 14, I would just go one tier lower.


Do you get a proper black background though on the more sensitive headphones with that method or is there noticeable hiss/hum?


----------



## mammal

Stereolab42 said:


> Do you get a proper black background though on the more sensitive headphones with that method or is there noticeable hiss/hum?


Totally black background, equal to what Bartok solid state amp brings to the table. When I first powered Viva, I heard some crackling / pop sounds (very quietly, but with no music playing, it was there) so I contacted Viva and they told me to give the amp (mainly tubes) a couple of hours. It went away completely after 20-30 minute, and has not reocurred even after I turned the amp off (and let it cool down) and then turned it on again. But to answer your question, now I tried setting Bartok to 6 V (its max) and the background is still pitch black, no sounds whatsoever, neither with Utopia or Valkyria.


----------



## Stereolab42

mammal said:


> Totally black background, equal to what Bartok solid state amp brings to the table. When I first powered Viva, I heard some crackling / pop sounds (very quietly, but with no music playing, it was there) so I contacted Viva and they told me to give the amp (mainly tubes) a couple of hours. It went away completely after 20-30 minute, and has not reocurred even after I turned the amp off (and let it cool down) and then turned it on again. But to answer your question, now I tried setting Bartok to 6 V (its max) and the background is still pitch black, no sounds whatsoever, neither with Utopia or Valkyria.


Well that is super-impressive for an amp with such powerful tubes. If I had known this earlier I might have gone through the effort of demo'ing it. I really hope the WA234 can match this performance. (The WA5 comes close to black on sensitive headphones on passages with no music but isn't quite there.) I guess we shall see.


----------



## mammal

Stereolab42 said:


> Well that is super-impressive for an amp with such powerful tubes. If I had known this earlier I might have gone through the effort of demo'ing it. I really hope the WA234 can match this performance. (The WA5 comes close to black on sensitive headphones on passages with no music but isn't quite there.) I guess we shall see.


To tell you the truth, I wanted to get WA33 first, since Abyss recommends it. But then I saw WA234, which seemingly no one has, and found that fact super cool (trying to be a bit unique, I guess), but in both cases, buying blindly and shipping from US was a big no no for me (warranty reasons). I wanted local support and when I asked my dealers, who contacted Woo Audio on my account, they always declined, quoting "direct only". I even tried to go through Abyss themselves but they said "no margins to be made", hence no Woo for me. Other two options really were Italians and out of dealers I reached out to, Riviera ignored me and were kinda mean to me on the phone (not Riviera per say, but two of their dealers). I had fantastic experience with a dealership in Germany, which went above and beyond to answer my Viva questions and provide a demo for me, which sits next to me right now (what a space heater, haha).


----------



## DJJEZ

mammal said:


> Viva Egoista 845 has finally landed, let's see if it sounds better than Bartók directly.


That is a serious bit of gear


----------



## julien-hifi (Jul 12, 2021)

mammal said:


> I don't know where I read it, but someone said that STX with Shangri-la Sr was the best combo said person ever heard (and Vivaldi was their source).


Hello guys,
Well that was the big discovery of the french annual showroom at Pierre Paya, i can say with confidence we had the best audio week-end ever.
You can have a glance of the atmosphere and system with that video.


Indeed, one system stood out, it was the Shangri-la Sr (18k€) with Viva STX (14k€) and the new Meitner MA3 (10 k€) as a dac.
By far the best system we all heard to date. I know at least 2 friends who bought the whole system that week-end


----------



## carboncopy

mammal said:


> Totally black background, equal to what Bartok solid state amp brings to the table. When I first powered Viva, I heard some crackling / pop sounds (very quietly, but with no music playing, it was there) so I contacted Viva and they told me to give the amp (mainly tubes) a couple of hours. It went away completely after 20-30 minute, and has not reocurred even after I turned the amp off (and let it cool down) and then turned it on again. But to answer your question, now I tried setting Bartok to 6 V (its max) and the background is still pitch black, no sounds whatsoever, neither with Utopia or Valkyria.


Try it with a Grado if you have one. Then…you will know if there is any noise in the amplifier. But of course, if it has no noise with your headphones…that’s what really matters!


----------



## mammal

carboncopy said:


> Try it with a Grado if you have one. Then…you will know if there is any noise in the amplifier. But of course, if it has no noise with your headphones…that’s what really matters!


What matters to me (my headphones) may not matter to others (their headphones), so I try to share as much information as possible, so that others know what they are getting into. From this perspective, Utopia and Valkyria have no noise. Unfortunately, I do not have anything more efficient than that.


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> To tell you the truth, I wanted to get WA33 first, since Abyss recommends it. But then I saw WA234, which seemingly no one has, and found that fact super cool (trying to be a bit unique, I guess), but in both cases, buying blindly and shipping from US was a big no no for me (warranty reasons). I wanted local support and when I asked my dealers, who contacted Woo Audio on my account, they always declined, quoting "direct only". I even tried to go through Abyss themselves but they said "no margins to be made", hence no Woo for me. Other two options really were Italians and out of dealers I reached out to, Riviera ignored me and were kinda mean to me on the phone (not Riviera per say, but two of their dealers). I had fantastic experience with a dealership in Germany, which went above and beyond to answer my Viva questions and provide a demo for me, which sits next to me right now (what a space heater, haha).


Well, considering just how expensive this equipment is, I can understand a dealer’s reluctance to just hand one over to a random customer.  Now we all know that you are not just some random guy but they don’t.  Like you, buying blindly is not my favorite thing but just listening to a piece of equipment at your favorite dealer for a short time isn‘t that great either.  I’m far more inclined to rely on a sampling of knowledgeable posters here to help in making decisions and that’s actually worked out well for me up to now.  Fortunately, I’m very happy (finally) with my current set up; the TT2 XLR’s provide plenty of power to the 1266 and I can always buy speaker taps to use my Chord 2650 integrated amp.

That said, I’m very intrigued by tube amps but simply don’t have the desire to go through the (expensive) learning curve to arrive at a “best” solution.  Right now I’m simply enjoying what I have!


----------



## mammal

Gadget67 said:


> Well, considering just how expensive this equipment is, I can understand a dealer’s reluctance to just hand one over to a random customer.  Now we all know that you are not just some random guy but they don’t.  Like you, buying blindly is not my favorite thing but just listening to a piece of equipment at your favorite dealer for a short time isn‘t that great either.  I’m far more inclined to rely on a sampling of knowledgeable posters here to help in making decisions and that’s actually worked out well for me up to now.  Fortunately, I’m very happy (finally) with my current set up; the TT2 XLR’s provide plenty of power to the 1266 and I can always buy speaker taps to use my Chord 2650 integrated amp.
> 
> That said, I’m very intrigued by tube amps but simply don’t have the desire to go through the (expensive) learning curve to arrive at a “best” solution.  Right now I’m simply enjoying what I have!


I know what you mean, building up a reputation with a dealer is a long process, but I wish it was transferable (if 4 dealers trust you, why won’t 5th one as well). Also, willing to pay full deposit upfront and even a fee if I decide to return, yet, many are still unwilling to work with you. I guess part of it is that they are build to order, which I understand costs money and what do they do with an “open box” after it.


----------



## mammal

Stereolab42 said:


> Do you get a proper black background though on the more sensitive headphones with that method or is there noticeable hiss/hum?


I have an update for you. I tried today (with all headphones I have) to put the volume knob to the max (without music playing obviously) and I can hear a slight hum coming out of headphones. When I have the volume knob set at levels I would actually listen to, this hum is gone. So it appears only on “full force”. I contacted Viva and they told me this is abnormal and should NOT be happening. They suspect one of the driver tubes is off, so they are sending me a new one. Wanted to tell you about this for full transparency.


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> I have an update for you. I tried today (with all headphones I have) to put the volume knob to the max (without music playing obviously) and I can hear a slight hum coming out of headphones. When I have the volume knob set at levels I would actually listen to, this hum is gone. So it appears only on “full force”. I contacted Viva and they told me this is abnormal and should NOT be happening. They suspect one of the driver tubes is off, so they are sending me a new one. Wanted to tell you about this for full transparency.


Tube amps seem to be as much about the best tube matching as it is about the sound.  I assume that tubes that come with a device are also warranted for some period of time.  Getting into tube rolling is a swamp I’d personally want to avoid but it is part of the fun if you will to tease out the best possible performance.  Again, I’ve reached the point (temporarily probably) where I just want to enjoy the excellent equipment I already have and live vicariously through others!  Looking forward to your actual review


----------



## mammal

Gadget67 said:


> Tube amps seem to be as much about the best tube matching as it is about the sound.  I assume that tubes that come with a device are also warranted for some period of time.  Getting into tube rolling is a swamp I’d personally want to avoid but it is part of the fun if you will to tease out the best possible performance.  Again, I’ve reached the point (temporarily probably) where I just want to enjoy the excellent equipment I already have and live vicariously through others!  Looking forward to your actual review


When I got over "I cannot have WA33", I realised, that I actually do not want to tube roll, I want to get "the best" out of the box (read, from the manufacturer and their recommendation). I asked Viva about this and they said that they went into the trouble of tube rolling and figuring out what works best, and they have already given me what they consider a good synergy. I am of course free to experiment, but they do not believe I will find something better, perhaps just different. I AM ABSOLUTELY happy about that fact, as Tube rolling is the last thing I want to do. Not saying there aren't differences (I did cable rolling after all), I just do not want to be spending 2-3k on carefully matched quads, stuff like that!


----------



## mammal

For those who have been following Spirit Torino lately, and saw their release of Valkyria 12k EUR headphones, here are some of my first impressions and initial comparison to AB-1266 TC, Susvara and Utopia, out of dCS Bartók and Viva Egoista 845 tube amp.


----------



## slefr

mammal said:


> I have an update for you. I tried today (with all headphones I have) to put the volume knob to the max (without music playing obviously) and I can hear a slight hum coming out of headphones. When I have the volume knob set at levels I would actually listen to, this hum is gone. So it appears only on “full force”. I contacted Viva and they told me this is abnormal and should NOT be happening. They suspect one of the driver tubes is off, so they are sending me a new one. Wanted to tell you about this for full transparency.


Hello Mammal,

you should not hear any hum from the amplifier, at least through and headphone. I have never heard one from mine. Do you switch it on with the switch in the lower position first ? This is necessary to heat up the tubes and ensure a better longevity to them and the amplifier. You can put the full current with the lever on the top position after eat least one minute (see the manual).

FYI I was the one talking about the Viva STX and Shangri-La Sr combo (Post on the SR1a thread). 
After spending more time with both, I confirm my early impressions, the sound is phenomenal and combines the best to my ears of the 1266, SR1a and likely the Susvara (I better know the HE1000se which I have owned for some time).

Enjoy your Viva 845, it is a fantastic amplifier for the 1266 but also for other headphones. But don’t expect it to improve the dryness of the 1266 medium as a HSA1b can do for instance.
I really like the Porsche blue, a good friend ordered it with the same color.


----------



## mammal

slefr said:


> Hello Mammal,
> 
> you should not hear any hum from the amplifier, at least through and headphone. I have never heard one from mine. Do you switch it on with the switch in the lower position first ? This is necessary to heat up the tubes and ensure a better longevity to them and the amplifier. You can put the full current with the lever on the top position after eat least one minute (see the manual).


Yes, I have been instructed to use the Warm up procedure on day one, and have been doing exactly just that every time I powered the amp on. Viva told me to do a warm up of 15 minutes when I first got the amp, and then do 2-3 minutes each consequent time.

I spoke to them about the hum and they suspect a bad driver tube, they are sending a replacement now. As for the "crackling/popping" sounds I had the first 2 hours of the amp, they commented as follows:


> _The "popping noise" can be simply that after shipping the metal cylinder of the socket of 845 did not make full contact with the base of the tube. This can lead to a light "patina", that then fades away. After some days, the contact can be restored, and this is what seemed to happen._



As for your comment


slefr said:


> FYI I was the one talking about the Viva STX and Shangri-La Sr combo (Post on the SR1a thread).
> After spending more time with both, I confirm my early impressions, the sound is phenomenal and combines the best to my ears of the 1266, SR1a and likely the Susvara (I better know the HE1000se which I have owned for some time).



I would definitely like to hear that combo, if I ever get that lucky.



slefr said:


> Enjoy your Viva 845, it is a fantastic amplifier for the 1266 but also for other headphones. But don’t expect it to improve the dryness of the 1266 medium as a HSA1b can do for instance.



Thank you, I am enjoying the sound, just feel a bit unlucky with those tubes I got. Hope they sort me out quickly. As for 1266's mids, I definitely plan to audition more headphones, to find a better pairing for mids focused music. For me, 1266 is just perfect for EDM, but not for acoustic or vocal heavy music, HE-1 was the best for me there. Not sure if SR1a will get me there (most likely will be just more analytical, but who knows, have a demo scheduled for end of August) will use HSA-1b. If I like what I hear, perhaps will buy both and then HSA-1b will work for 1266 as well? Does it improve mids in terms of making bass worse, or just fixing mids? Another audition I have is for 009S, so curious how those sound on mids. As for Shangri-La Sr, I have an audition scheduled too, but with their own amp, which on its own costs like 18k, which if one is to add Viva STX, becomes like 30k combo. Maybe my Viva dealer would get me home audition for STX, but I don't think I will be able to get my hands on home audition Shangri-la Sr, and not at the same time, that combo will most likely elude me, haha.


----------



## slefr

mammal said:


> Thank you, I am enjoying the sound, just feel a bit unlucky with those tubes I got. Hope they sort me out quickly. As for 1266's mids, I definitely plan to audition more headphones, to find a better pairing for mids focused music. For me, 1266 is just perfect for EDM, but not for acoustic or vocal heavy music, HE-1 was the best for me there. Not sure if SR1a will get me there (most likely will be just more analytical, but who knows, have a demo scheduled for end of August) will use HSA-1b. If I like what I hear, perhaps will buy both and then HSA-1b will work for 1266 as well? Does it improve mids in terms of making bass worse, or just fixing mids? Another audition I have is for 009S, so curious how those sound on mids. As for Shangri-La Sr, I have an audition scheduled too, but with their own amp, which on its own costs like 18k, which if one is to add Viva STX, becomes like 30k combo. Maybe my Viva dealer would get me home audition for STX, but I don't think I will be able to get my hands on home audition Shangri-la Sr, and not at the same time, that combo will most likely elude me, haha.


The bass is not worse with the HSA1b than with the Viva 845, it is just different : a little bit Smoother but still punchy and reaching the lowest frequencies with authority.

I was a bit underwhelmed when I first listened to the full Shangri-La combo and preferred the HE1 which I was able to compare directly.
While I was not able to compare the SL amplifier with the STX, I‘m confident that the latter is better to my tastes with a deeper bass and a less airy sound,from my memory, YMMV


----------



## BassicScience (Jul 13, 2021)

mammal said:


> I know what you mean, building up a reputation with a dealer is a long process, but I wish it was transferable (if 4 dealers trust you, why won’t 5th one as well). Also, willing to pay full deposit upfront and even a fee if I decide to return, yet, many are still unwilling to work with you. I guess part of it is that they are build to order, which I understand costs money and *what do they do with an “open box” after it*.


Some dealers offer discounted open box electronics or cans, which are typically customer returns. Many/most charge the customer doing the return a restocking fee (10-15% is typical, depending on payment method), so they come out whole. Sometimes the restocking fee can be held as store credit so that the customer may purchase another item(s) of similar value and not lose any money. It's extra work for the dealer, but is a nice option for potential customers who may not be able to home demo the desired equipment via any other avenue. Obviously, there is a cost to the customer for such a service in the event of a return, but that is known up front.

On very esoteric (or custom built) equipment, offering such a policy may not be practical.


----------



## Solan

On the lighter side, Joe from Abyss has spoken of a "The Big Guy" to follow 1266. Here is a secret photo from a test-out.






(Yeah, we love you, Abyss. We wouldn't make such jokes for any lesser like.)


----------



## DJJEZ

Solan said:


> On the lighter side, Joe from Abyss has spoken of a "The Big Guy" to follow 1266. Here is a secret photo from a test-out.
> 
> 
> 
> (Yeah, we love you, Abyss. We wouldn't make such jokes for any lesser like.)



I love how they call it the big guy. As if 1266tc isn't big enough lmao


----------



## number1sixerfan

slefr said:


> FYI I was the one talking about the Viva STX and Shangri-La Sr combo (Post on the SR1a thread).
> After spending more time with both, I confirm my early impressions, the sound is phenomenal and combines the best to my ears of the 1266, SR1a and likely the Susvara (I better know the HE1000se which I have owned for some time).



If you ever get the chance, would be great to see really in depth impressions on the combo. Based on what I can tell, my line of thinking is that the SGL will likely replace the 009 and Susvara for me. I think it, the TC and Sr1 (since the TC and Raal are so unique) a is probably a really good 3 can group to land on permanently. Considering the STX and potentially 3ES as well, but still not sure as I really enjoy the BHSE. 




mammal said:


> Thank you, I am enjoying the sound, just feel a bit unlucky with those tubes I got. Hope they sort me out quickly. As for 1266's mids, I definitely plan to audition more headphones, to find a better pairing for mids focused music. For me, 1266 is just perfect for EDM, but not for acoustic or vocal heavy music, HE-1 was the best for me there. Not sure if SR1a will get me there (most likely will be just more analytical, but who knows, have a demo scheduled for end of August) will use HSA-1b. If I like what I hear, perhaps will buy both and then HSA-1b will work for 1266 as well? Does it improve mids in terms of making bass worse, or just fixing mids? Another audition I have is for 009S, so curious how those sound on mids. As for Shangri-La Sr, I have an audition scheduled too, but with their own amp, which on its own costs like 18k, which if one is to add Viva STX, becomes like 30k combo. Maybe my Viva dealer would get me home audition for STX, but I don't think I will be able to get my hands on home audition Shangri-la Sr, and not at the same time, that combo will most likely elude me, haha.



Sorry you ran into tube issues, hope they're fixed asap! Also, wanted to comment that you can't really fix the TC's midrange issues. You can certainly add a bit of warmth, but no amp is going to correct the recession issue. At least not from my experience. EQ (I don't do) or turning the volume up just a bit (which I do do) are probably the only option. But that's why having the Susvara or something similar to compliment is a good idea.


----------



## Gadget67

number1sixerfan said:


> Sorry you ran into tube issues, hope they're fixed asap! Also, wanted to comment that *you can't really fix the TC's midrange issues.* You can certainly add a bit of warmth, but no amp is going to correct the recession issue. At least not from my experience. EQ (I don't do) or turning the volume up just a bit (which I do do) are probably the only option. But that's why having the Susvara or something similar to compliment is a good idea.


I’d really like to hear from more posters about this.  It seems (to me) that the Superconductor does help.  I’m pretty happy with the midrange to be honest but we all hear a bit differently.


----------



## slefr

number1sixerfan said:


> If you ever get the chance, would be great to see really in depth impressions on the combo. Based on what I can tell, my line of thinking is that the SGL will likely replace the 009 and Susvara for me. I think it, the TC and Sr1 (since the TC and Raal are so unique) a is probably a really good 3 can group to land on permanently. Considering the STX and potentially 3ES as well, but still not sure as I really enjoy the BHSE.



I won’t provide depth impressions at this stage as it would need careful comparisons with other headphones. What I can say is that the SGL on the STX checks all boxes for me and I could imagine having only this combo. While the TC will go a little bit deeper with more grunt and the SR1a will still be more open, the differences are quite small to my ears. The combination of an amazing clarity, speed and smoothness is above everything I have had the opportunity to listen to up to now. The tonality is spot on. 

I have nearly no experience with the BHSE so I can’t comment about how the association with the SGL would work but due to its reputation I would imagine it is in the same class as the STX.


----------



## eee1111

Gadget67 said:


> I’d really like to hear from more posters about this.  It seems (to me) that the Superconductor does help.  I’m pretty happy with the midrange to be honest but we all hear a bit differently.


The TC lacks midrange. There is detail that is recessed. I’m definitely disappointed that it has to sacrifice midrange but the presentation of what it does play is amazing.


----------



## Gadget67

eee1111 said:


> The TC lacks midrange. There is detail that is recessed. I’m definitely disappointed that it has to sacrifice midrange but the presentation of what it does play is amazing.


I see you are using a Holo May (nice) but what headphone cable are you using?


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## eee1111

Gadget67 said:


> I see you are using a Holo May (nice) but what headphone cable are you using?


Non upgraded. Standard cable.


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## Gadget67

eee1111 said:


> Non upgraded. Standard cable.


Thanks.  I think the Supercable improves mids, but it may be because the cable wasn’t cheap!  I have gone back and forth comparing the stock to the Superconductor.  The cable was certainly good at sucking money out of my wallet…


----------



## eee1111

Gadget67 said:


> Thanks.  I think the Supercable improves mids, but it may be because the cable wasn’t cheap!  I have gone back and forth comparing the stock to the Superconductor.  The cable was certainly good at sucking money out of my wallet…


I have such a hard time justifying really really expensive cables. I dunno. I’m sure it helps.


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## Gadget67

eee1111 said:


> I have such a hard time justifying really really expensive cables. I dunno. I’m sure it helps.


I purchased my Superconductor cable from a really nice member here at head-fi and I can likely sell it for all or most of what I paid.  I’ve purchased several other “expensive” cables from other members as well.  Still not cheap but I highly recommend supporting members who want to pass on nice gear at relatively reasonable prices.  I think cables do make a difference but others disagree.  It’s actually cheap entertainment as long as you don’t mind expending the funds in the first place.


----------



## mammal

*Viva Egoista 845 vs Riviera AIC-10 headphone amplifiers*

Thanks to a fellow head-fier, who brought his Riviera AIC-10 to my house, I was able to compare it to Viva Egoista 845 and I must say that I am impressed. I will go into more detail once I acquire my own, BUT I can already say, that AIC-10 is what I was looking for in an amp pairing, hence I made a contractual commitment to buy one. 



*dCS Bartók and Viva Egoista 845*

Bartok has very detailed, transparent and neutral SS amplifier, capable of driving AB-1266 with more authority, than as twice as powerful Hugo TT 2 (out of its rear XLRs). Adding Viva to it, makes it more technically impressive - bass tightens up and is more controlled/articulate/layered, the resolution and detail retrieval improves further, and soundstage becomes more holographic as well. I would call these improvements (for AB-1266) anywhere between 10-20% over what I get direct out of Bartok. Worth the 12'500 EUR price? Well, no, not really. However, if your DAC does not have a capable headphone out (Bartok certainly does), I would definitely recommend Viva to you, as it is the most transparent headphone amplifier I have heard. If you are curious how it changes Susvara, which needs more power than 1266, then guess - it does exactly what it did to 1266, it improves its technicalities, and that's it. If you are happy with the way your headphones sound already, you just want to take it a level or two higher, for sure get Viva!

*What I am trying to achieve*

Some of you may know what sound signature I am after (if you read my other impressions in my signature), and that I like Valkyria for its meaty mids, which gives me a wonderful experience with pianos and strings. BUT the best mids I have ever heard were Sennheiser HE-1, those were to die for, especially because they were presented in such an intimate way. Because of this, I have been toying with the idea of getting myself a second pair of headphones. I tried Focal Utopia, Hifiman Susvara and Spirit Torino Valkyria, but for EDM, I was always coming back to AB-1266. How can I achieve HE-1's mids with 1266? Is that even possible? I did not like Utopia's bass (not detailed/layered enough), I did not like Susvara's build quality and the stock cable (can be replaced of course), and with Valkyria, the design is over the top (and price is quite steep). What I am trying to say here, is that I always kept coming back to 1266, even if it was flawed in the mids. People told me about Superconductor cable, and I am definitely considering it.

*Riviera AIC-10*

BUT, I am happy to say, Riviera AIC-10 (to my ears) makes mids sound like they did on HE-1 (comparing from memory of course, so take this with a grain of salt). AIC-10 is not as transparent as Viva, and it does change the presentation. What impressed me with Riviera was how "meaty" the mids became, so so so different from stock 1266. If I could record them for you (just the mids), I don't think you would recognise them, nor attribute them to 1266. They keep the resolution 1266 is known for, but singer is no longer singing from a hallway, but in front of you in a small club, with very little reverb. This is exactly what I remember from HE-1, the intimacy of mids. As opposed to Viva, which made V/U shape just sound more prominent, Riviera changes that presentation to more neutral/natural way. I knew a presentation like this is possible by "just get a tube amp", but I was worried that a tube amp of this sort would loose its resolution and bass precision, well, Riviera does not sound as sharp as Viva, but it still is refined and well defined, but again, I come to the same conclusion - it is meatier.

*Music pairing*

If you ask me, Viva Egoista 845 and Riviera AIC-10 do sound different, and the pairing will depend on what you want to achieve (or fix in my case). If you like how your source chain sounds, and the headphones you own are perfect to you, meaning you don't want to change anything, definitely get Viva, it is much more transparent / not changing timbre/tonality type of amplifier - AND IT LOOKS gorgeous. Riviera on the other hands, fix what I have been trying to fix with 1266. Would I recommend the amplifier for other headphones? Hard to say, I did not have enough time to listen with Susvara, Utopia nor Valkyria. BUT for me, Riviera does what I wanted all the way - make 1266 a good headphone for Max Payne piano soundtrack, The Weeknd vocal heavy synth pop, and Linking Park indie rock. Will it replace Bartok for vocal less cold EDM? I don't think so, that one is more holographic and colder in presentation (in comparison).

*Summary*

I know many of you will fundamentally disagree here with me. I should get absolutely transparent source (dac+amp) and then a headphone, that presents it in a way that is again, transparent. But please note, that for me, I am after a certain sound signature, that plays well with music I listen to. For EDM, 1266 is the best headphone. For othet genres that are instrument / vocal focused, I found 1266 lacking. I tried to fix it with other headphones, but those I found lacking too. But now, with Riviera, I found a fix for my favourite headphone, that finally makes it sound like I can make it all with one headphone, no need for swapping (well, headphone swapping, I still need to swap amps, haha). If I could, I would keep both Viva Egoista 845 for EDM, and Riviera AIC-10 for the rest. But that's too much money for me, especially if Bartok is Viva minus 20%, I cannot justify keeping both. If I did not have Bartok with a good enough amplifier, I would definitely chose both. If I was buying other headphone, I would most likely chose more transparent Viva. But for 1266 owners, really, give Riviera a listen, it is that good.

*Boring part*
I put this last, as most of you already know it. Viva Egoista 845 is a huge 30kg monster, that functions as a space heater, as those 845 tubes are always on. Riviera AIC-10 on the other hand is a hybrid amplifier, that only weights 15kg and runs much cooler. Looks, Viva is something special, you can chose any automotive colour you want. Riviera comes in two colours, and even though my Bartok and Abyss are black, I prefer Riviera gold, it looks very classy in person, not as crazy as Viva. As for tube rolling, Viva does not recommend it, and claims it is better to trust their selection (they tube rolled in the factory). Riviera is of no opinion of sort and you are free to tube roll as much as you want and some people report great results, taking the amp directions needed for headphone pairings (more warmth, less warmth, stuff like that).


----------



## number1sixerfan (Jul 14, 2021)

eee1111 said:


> The TC lacks midrange. There is detail that is recessed. I’m definitely disappointed that it has to sacrifice midrange but the presentation of what it does play is amazing.



I do also want to echo this in terms of the TC still being extremely amazing, it's simply a small tradeoff and its only weakness. Every single headphone (at least that I have ever heard) has a weakness that cannot be fully corrected by an amp, cables, etc. Changing each of those components can improve the issue, but at the end of the day, the signature of the headphone is the signature of the headphone.

The TC's will never have the mids of the Susvara and the Susvara will never have the holographic wow factor of the TC. Instead of putting money into trying to make the TC more like the Susvara or vice versa, you're probably better off spending that on buying the other as a compliment lol. But that's just my $0.02 and we also all hear differently.


----------



## jlbrach

picking out weaknesses regarding the Tc or susvara is like looking for weaknesses in a mercedes or BMW....the TC is pretty extraordinary but like everything not perfect...I await the perfect HP or the perfect anything


----------



## Palyodgree (Jul 14, 2021)

mammal said:


> *Viva Egoista 845 vs Riviera AIC-10 headphone amplifiers*
> 
> Thanks to a fellow head-fier, who brought his Riviera AIC-10 to my house, I was able to compare it to Viva Egoista 845 and I must say that I am impressed. I will go into more detail once I acquire my own, BUT I can already say, that AIC-10 is what I was looking for in an amp pairing, hence I made a contractual commitment to buy one.
> 
> ...


Did your wife get mad stealing tables for your amplifiers ,.Great write up and photo though.


----------



## jlbrach

FWIIW,regarding amps for the TC I must say the formula s/powerman combo is marvelous....I wont argue with those who prefer speaker amps because these things are subjective but in terms of HP amps I havent heard anything better for the TC..a really fabulous combination


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## DJJEZ (Jul 14, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> FWIIW,regarding amps for the TC I must say the formula s/powerman combo is marvelous....I wont argue with those who prefer speaker amps because these things are subjective but in terms of HP amps I havent heard anything better for the TC..a really fabulous combination



I'm extremely happy with the formula S and powerman. Sounds phenomenal


----------



## mammal

Palyodgree said:


> Did your wife get mad stealing tables for your amplifiers ,.Great write up and photo though.


Haha, we have like 5 of those tiny Ikea tables, so wasn’t a problem, even if I had to fetch them from around the house.


----------



## SuperBurrito

mammal said:


> Haha, we have like 5 of those tiny Ikea tables, so wasn’t a problem, even if I had to fetch them from around the house.


I have Ikea tables as well, but please be aware that they are not much different than cardboard pizza boxes with legs.  Check out google images to see what's inside.
For sure I would not put heavy equipment on them, or assume there is any vibration absorption.


----------



## julien-hifi

Very interesting amp comparison 👍👍


----------



## mammal

SuperBurrito said:


> I have Ikea tables as well, but please be aware that they are not much different than cardboard pizza boxes with legs.  Check out google images to see what's inside.
> For sure I would not put heavy equipment on them, or assume there is any vibration absorption.


I am aware they are crap, but so far they have been pretty stable, even with 30kg amp. But thanks for warning me.


----------



## Solan

jlbrach said:


> picking out weaknesses regarding the Tc or susvara is like looking for weaknesses in a mercedes or BMW....the TC is pretty extraordinary but like everything not perfect...I await the perfect HP or the perfect anything


Lamborghinis are crappy offroad cars.


----------



## DJJEZ

Super conductor cable owners....are you wrapping the cables with anything to keep them together so they don't split? I have been using black thermal tape on the stock cable lol

Interested what everyone is using


----------



## Roasty

DJJEZ said:


> Super conductor cable owners....are you wrapping the cables with anything to keep them together so they don't split? I have been using black thermal tape on the stock cable lol
> 
> Interested what everyone is using



Here is what I did. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-16303389

Simple twist and Velcro tape to make the splitter.


----------



## mammal

DJJEZ said:


> Super conductor cable owners....are you wrapping the cables with anything to keep them together so they don't split? I have been using black thermal tape on the stock cable lol


That's what I did with Superconductor cable for my Diana V2, worked well enough, haha.


----------



## zenlisten

mammal said:


> Thanks to a fellow head-fier, who brought his Riviera AIC-10 to my house…


Do you happen to know a dealer in Switzerland that sells the Riviera AIC-10?


----------



## mammal

zenlisten said:


> Do you happen to know a dealer in Switzerland that sells the Riviera AIC-10?


There isn't one. This head-fier got it via a Swiss dealer, who tried working with Riviera, but for reasons of not selling enough amps from them stopped doing it. This was like 2-3 years ago. I reached out to German and Austrian distributors, they send me their price list and said that they are considering distribution to Switzerland, but haven't discussed it with Riviera yet. When I asked about ETA, got no response from them. I also do not know if they are willing to deduct German/Austrian VAT, so you only pay import tax and Swiss VAT.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

mammal said:


> *Viva Egoista 845 vs Riviera AIC-10 headphone amplifiers*
> 
> Thanks to a fellow head-fier, who brought his Riviera AIC-10 to my house, I was able to compare it to Viva Egoista 845 and I must say that I am impressed. I will go into more detail once I acquire my own, BUT I can already say, that AIC-10 is what I was looking for in an amp pairing, hence I made a contractual commitment to buy one.
> 
> ...


Great writing and exactly information that I need, thank you!


----------



## mammal

@Gadget67 @slefr just wanted to let you know that Viva sent me new driver tubes and all the hum is gone now. At no volume knob position I hear any hum coming out of any headphone, pitch black now. What a rollecestor (first patina on 845, then driver tubes going bad), but Viva and their dealer have some amazing customer service, all resolved in the matter of days (as fast as shipping allowed).


----------



## drew911d (Jul 15, 2021)

@mammal , I will be interested in seeing what tubes you try with the Riviera.  I just bought a slightly used AIC-10 from @F208Frank .  Love it with my Phi (pre CC even).

Will you be getting the new AIC-10 Bal?  Balanced version is new on their website.

Also, word is, speaker taps out of Riviera is better with Abyss.  HP out has some extra resistor.  I'll be trying that eventually, once I can swing a JPS Soperconductor speaker tap adapter..


----------



## mammal

drew911d said:


> @mammal , I will be interested in seeing what tubes you try with the Riviera. I just bought a slightly used AIC-10 from @F208Frank . Love it with my Phi (pre CC even).


Noice, congrats on a fantastic amp! Not sure which tubes I will go for, as I originally wanted to get an amp that I do not have to tube roll. Like many, for me the sound is more important than technology, so I wasn't buying a tube amp for sake of owning tubes. I wanted an amp (could have been solid state) that I enjoy the sound of, so Viva and Riviera were my choices for their reputation, rather than they are tubes, if that makes sense. Of course, once I get familiar with the sound (a couple of weeks at least) I may end up consulting tube elders, to see how I could take some aspect of the amp further (could be resolution, tonality, whatnot, I don't know yet).



drew911d said:


> Also, word is, speaker taps out of Riviera is better with Abyss. HP out has some extra resistor. I'll be trying that eventually, once I can swing a JPS Soperconductor speaker tap adapter..


Similarly to my previous comment, maybe I like the extra resistor in the audio path, I really cannot tell. I don't see myself getting an adapter to be honest, as I have gone that route before (Hugo TT 2) and even though it changed the sound, it was very slight difference. Perhaps taps will sound better, I really don't know, but I think I will wait until some other headfier wants to visit me, have a nice dinner, chat about audio, and as a bonus, brings said tap adapter, haha. The thing is that Riviera, in the configuration I listened to, just hit it for me, exactly what I was after for a while. I don't want to say never, as I will eat my words most likely, but the tap adapter is definitely after I try to refine the sound with some tubes or a headphone cable (Superconductor most likely). If I really wanted "absolute transparency, the least amount of resistors" I would have gone for AFC-10, which does not even have a volume knob (I can always use Bartok's).



drew911d said:


> Will you be getting the new AIC-10 Bal? Balanced version is new on their website.


Like yourself, I am buying used from a headfier. When I asked around for Riviera balanced, people told me that it is just for convienence, exactly like with Viva (mark 2) which has XLR ins. Please correct me if I am wrong and there is more to Riviera's XLR inputs. The thing is, I SHOULD be using XLRs, as dCS claims that their DACs sound better from XLR compared to RCAs. I don't know how much truth there is to it, as I have tried Viva via RCA or XLR and they sound identical to me. It could be that Viva is ignoring pin 3 (that's how it "adapts" balanced/differential to single ended, as the amp is internally single ended), and if my amp was truly balanced (like WA33) Bartok would really sound better out of XLR than RCA - that's why I did not mind buying Riviera without balanced inputs. 

Worth reiterating that I have been looking for a "perfect" (to me) headphone system for a couple of months, tried different headphones, dacs, amps and to my ears 1266 + Bartok + Riviera just sounded right for mids, and 1266 + Bartok for EDM (Viva is better, but not by more than 10-20% and I cannot swing the cash for owning both amps at the same time). Further refinements are of course possible, adding Rossini Master Clock, or even upgrading DAC to Rossini (but loosing its headphone amp). Maybe if I end up using Riviera amp for everything (including EDM), maybe then it will make sense to upgrade Bartok and lose its headphone amp, but I don't see myself doing that in the near future. The Rossini Clock is more for a curiosity and I have proven to myself, that there is a limit to what I am willing to pay for an audio equipment (personal ceiling), the example being returning Viva, even if it made EDM sound better than Riviera or Bartok itself.


----------



## slefr

mammal said:


> @Gadget67 @slefr just wanted to let you know that Viva sent me new driver tubes and all the hum is gone now. At no volume knob position I hear any hum coming out of any headphone, pitch black now. What a rollecestor (first patina on 845, then driver tubes going bad), but Viva and their dealer have some amazing customer service, all resolved in the matter of days (as fast as shipping allowed).


That‘s good to know, I was sure it had nothing to do with the amplifier by itself.

I have enjoyed reading your comparison between the Viva and the Riviera. I‘m not surprised by your findings.
I told you that the Viva would not improve the mids of the 1266 to the point they are put forward and less sterile.

how is the bass with the Riviera compared to the Viva ? I would imagine it is more rounded as the Riviera is supposed to sound more tubey than the Viva.


----------



## mammal

slefr said:


> I told you that the Viva would not improve the mids of the 1266 to the point they are put forward and less sterile.


You were right, I should have listened, haha.



slefr said:


> how is the bass with the Riviera compared to the Viva ? I would imagine it is more rounded as the Riviera is supposed to sound more tubey than the Viva.


My first two *tube* amps ever are Viva (SET) and Riviera (which is hybrid), so I am not akin to know what "tubey" really sounds like. But from reading about others' experiences with tube amplifiers, what I believe they refer to as tubey is what you describe here. And there, yes, Riviera is definitely more "tubey" to my ears. I was worried that Riviera would lose resolution/articulation in the bass, but it does not. It sounds meatier to my ears, where as Viva is much more "sharp", not in a bright sense, but in how fast it starts/stops, so I guess note decay is the term? I also wonder, what does change mids more, Riviera or a Superconductor? I am guessing amplifier has more effect on sound than a cable, but I won't know until I directly compare.


----------



## SuperBurrito

mammal said:


> Worth reiterating that I have been looking for a "perfect" (to me) headphone system for a couple of months, tried different headphones, dacs, amps and to my ears 1266 + Bartok + Riviera just sounded right for mids,


I think you meant Susvara for the mids?


----------



## slefr (Jul 15, 2021)

mammal said:


> You were right, I should have listened, haha.
> 
> 
> My first two *tube* amps ever are Viva (SET) and Riviera (which is hybrid), so I am not akin to know what "tubey" really sounds like. But from reading about others' experiences with tube amplifiers, what I believe they refer to as tubey is what you describe here. And there, yes, Riviera is definitely more "tubey" to my ears. I was worried that Riviera would lose resolution/articulation in the bass, but it does not. It sounds meatier to my ears, where as Viva is much more "sharp", not in a bright sense, but in how fast it starts/stops, so I guess note decay is the term? I also wonder, what does change mids more, Riviera or a Superconductor? I am guessing amplifier has more effect on sound than a cable, but I won't know until I directly compare.


you have well understood what I meant by tubey. the Viva 845 is sharp, straight and neutral, not having this limpness that some tube amplifiers are know for which can be detrimental to transients or punchy bass. The Raal SR1a which is a SS amplifier sounds more tubey than the Viva but not to the point of having the drawbacks just mentioned.

I have not tried yet the SC and I find crazy to put this price on a cable but that’s just me…
I prefer to put my money on other pieces of equipment like amplifiers or Dac


----------



## mammal

SuperBurrito said:


> I think you meant Susvara for the mids?


I had Susvara 2 weeks for home demo, I returned it today. I like Bartok => Riviera => 1266 better for everything, including mids. Susvara was better for mids out of Bartok => Viva, but I did not like it for the rest, so off it went. Riviera to my ears changes 1266 a lot, and that is even without the Superconductor cable (which I only had for Diana V2, not 1266). I would definitely not call it as transparent as Viva, but for me, Viva only worked for EDM where it highlighted what 1266 already does well. I know everyone likes Susvara more on mids, I get that, I did too.



slefr said:


> I have not yet tried the SC as I find crazy to put this price on a cable but that’s just me…


For Diana the cable is much cheaper, especially if you ask them not to include the stock cable, so it was just a 1k upgrade and I went with it. I did not like the cable for its ergonomics (two separate cables), but I know some others fix it with a velcro/ductape or they even braid it together. With Diana, I did not really hear any difference (I had the stock cable on the demo unit I was testing for a whole month) and the difference in cables was very subtle, so I assumed it would be the same with 1266, but maybe I am wrong. 


slefr said:


> you have well understood what I meant by tubey. the Viva 845 is sharp, straight and neutral, not having this limpness that some tube amplifiers are know for which can be detrimental to transients or punchy bass. The Raal SR1a which is a SS amplifier sounds more tubey than the Viva but not to the point of having the drawbacks just mentioned.


Sounds like you have tried all 3 then, Viva, Riviera and Raal. Would you be able to rank them in terms of "transparency" and "tubey"? We already agree on Viva > Riviera on transparency, and Riviera > Viva for tubey, I just wonder where would you put Raal's amp in these two categories. Thanks!


----------



## DJJEZ

Roasty said:


> Here is what I did.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-16303389
> 
> Simple twist and Velcro tape to make the splitter.


Really like how you twisted the cable as well


----------



## slefr

mammal said:


> Sounds like you have tried all 3 then, Viva, Riviera and Raal. Would you be able to rank them in terms of "transparency" and "tubey"? We already agree on Viva > Riviera on transparency, and Riviera > Viva for tubey, I just wonder where would you put Raal's amp in these two categories. Thanks!


Sorry but I have only listened to the Riviera a few minutes years ago so I can’t rank it among the two other amps.
But from a good friend‘s comments which had more time with both the Viva and Riviera, I would say that the Riviera is closer to the Raal than to the Viva.
But take it as a guess still.


----------



## littlej0e (Jul 15, 2021)

At long last… The eagle has landed…

The difference between these and the SR1a’s is quite interesting. I haven’t got a lot of time to listen to listen yet though.


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## Ciggavelli

littlej0e said:


> At long last… The eagle has landed…
> 
> The difference between these and the SR1a’s is quite interesting. I haven’t got a lot of time to listen to listen yet though.


Nice!  I look forward to your impressions


----------



## jlbrach

littlej0e said:


> At long last… The eagle has landed…
> 
> The difference between these and the SR1a’s is quite interesting. I haven’t got a lot of time to listen to listen yet though.


yes, an entirely different animal....takes time to adjust to one after listening to the other...both spectacular


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## TheMiddleSky

mammal said:


> also wonder, what does change mids more, Riviera or a Superconductor? I am guessing amplifier has more effect on sound than a cable, but I won't know until I directly compare.


I'm familiar with SC, but haven't tried Riviera myself. 

I do believe Riviera changes the character of your 1266 more than SC, and not by small margin, because SC is not about changing the 1266 character, but more about refinement and bigger imaging (as bonus, produce a little sweeter vocal, but only slight). Same also happen with SC for Diana, it doesn't transform Diana's character to something else.


----------



## mammal

TheMiddleSky said:


> I'm familiar with SC, but haven't tried Riviera myself.
> 
> I do believe Riviera changes the character of your 1266 more than SC, and not by small margin, because SC is not about changing the 1266 character, but more about refinement and bigger imaging (as bonus, produce a little sweeter vocal, but only slight). Same also happen with SC for Diana, it doesn't transform Diana's character to something else.


This is extremely useful, thank you!


----------



## BPED

mammal said:


> *Viva Egoista 845 vs Riviera AIC-10 headphone amplifiers*
> 
> Thanks to a fellow head-fier, who brought his Riviera AIC-10 to my house, I was able to compare it to Viva Egoista 845 and I must say that I am impressed. I will go into more detail once I acquire my own, BUT I can already say, that AIC-10 is what I was looking for in an amp pairing, hence I made a contractual commitment to buy one.
> 
> ...



Glad to see that you enjoyed the Riviera. Which tube was it mounting? That's pretty important to understand if you could get even more out of this amp given your system and sound preferences. As an example: recently I upgraded the software on my Innuos streamer and got a cleaner, slightly leaner sound, with greater 3D accuracy. I wanted a slightly meatier sound with the Utopia but not as much as NOS Mullard. So I replaced what I usually pair with the Utopia (RT) with a RT Dario which I also had. Perfect match, 30 seconds to do it, I think I paid 70 euros for the tube. Once I will be in the mood for the TC again I may mount a Mullard. I am not rolling tubes all the time, far from it, but I love how easy and inexpensive it is to modify the sound signature. Another easy, cheap anf significant improvement for the TC is going via the speaker taps. 

All this to say that even if you loved the Riviera you may still be in for some good surprises...  enjoy


----------



## Solan

TheMiddleSky said:


> I'm familiar with SC, but haven't tried Riviera myself.
> 
> I do believe Riviera changes the character of your 1266 more than SC, and not by small margin, because SC is not about changing the 1266 character, but more about refinement and bigger imaging (as bonus, produce a little sweeter vocal, but only slight). Same also happen with SC for Diana, it doesn't transform Diana's character to something else.


The tube in the Riviera is in the preamp section. Could this change of character be accomplished by inserting a suitable preamp between DAC and power headphone amp? Has anyone searched for (and found) such a pure preamp?


----------



## normie610

Solan said:


> The tube in the Riviera is in the preamp section. Could this change of character be accomplished by inserting a suitable preamp between DAC and power headphone amp? Has anyone searched for (and found) such a pure preamp?


I think a few people are using WA33 as a preamp to their solid state amp.


----------



## simorag

mammal said:


> I know many of you will fundamentally disagree here with me. I should get absolutely transparent source (dac+amp) and then a headphone, that presents it in a way that is again, transparent. But please note, that for me, I am after a certain sound signature, that plays well with music I listen to. For EDM, 1266 is the best headphone. For othet genres that are instrument / vocal focused, I found 1266 lacking. I tried to fix it with other headphones, but those I found lacking too. But now, with Riviera, I found a fix for my favourite headphone, that finally makes it sound like I can make it all with one headphone, no need for swapping (well, headphone swapping, I still need to swap amps, haha).



The "transducer-first" approach, where you build an entire system in order to maximise your subjective enjoyment of a loudspeaker (or a pair of headphones in this case) you feel it is specially well fit for you is a totally legit way to proceed, I see nothing wrong with it. 
A unique kind of gear like the AB-1266 TC can bring to such approach 



drew911d said:


> Also, word is, speaker taps out of Riviera is better with Abyss.


I confirm, as a few other AIC-10 owners I have communicated with. Don't expect trasformative changes, but still well worth the relatively small further investment and extra fuss IMHO.



drew911d said:


> @mammal , I will be interested in seeing what tubes you try with the Riviera.



There are a few posts (e.g. 1, 2, 3) about this in the AIC-10 thread, and the consensus is that tube rolling on the Riviera does make a clearly audible difference, thus making room to further 'fine tuning' of this amp to your hp synergy / tastes. Grossly simplyfying, Mullard tubes are the most euphoric / richest, Radiotechnique or Fivre (among other options) are pretty balanced, Telefunken ECC802S are the clearest / most transparent.



slefr said:


> I have not tried yet the SC and I find crazy to put this price on a cable but that’s just me…



Apart from those with unlimited budget, I would recommend the SC cable to people that are committed to the AB-1266 in the long term and prefer to further invest on them instead of (or prior to) looking for a complimentary hp. A SC cable can remove the need for a Susvara to complement the TC for some people, and in this sense it could even be seen as a money saver  .



mammal said:


> I also wonder, what does change mids more, Riviera or a Superconductor?



In my own experience, starting from a baseline-neutral sound like say the DAVE direct output or the Simaudio Moon 600i, the AIC-10+tube had a definite more audible impact on the overall sound signature than the SC cable.


----------



## Litlgi74

littlej0e said:


> At long last… The eagle has landed…
> 
> The difference between these and the SR1a’s is quite interesting. I haven’t got a lot of time to listen to listen yet though.


How disrespectful.. Nobody puts Baby in a corner!


----------



## Articnoise

simorag said:


> The "transducer-first" approach, where you build an entire system in order to maximise your subjective enjoyment of a loudspeaker (or a pair of headphones in this case) you feel it is specially well fit for you is a totally legit way to proceed, I see nothing wrong with it.
> A unique kind of gear like the AB-1266 TC can bring to such approach
> 
> 
> ...


Yes the amp can change the game big time. Especially 300B amps. I remember how surprised I get with the Focal Utopia driven from Cayin HA300. It sounds totally different from how I had heard it before out of Moon HA430.


----------



## jlbrach

I have a question for those more technically proficient than I am....I have owned all versions of the abyss 1266 and have owned tons of different amps as well as listening to numerous others including speaker amps...many of the amps were far more powerful than the 2.3 w that the formula s/powerman puts into the abyss yet I have heard nothing that sounds as good as this combo...with the formula s/powerman the abyss has a huge soundstage, is incredible detailed,has the grunt and bass response that makes this headphone special...again, it only puts out 2.3w into the abyss...why ,at least to my ears does this combo work so well given the relatively modest power rating?....


----------



## paradoxper

littlej0e said:


> At long last… The eagle has landed…
> 
> The difference between these and the SR1a’s is quite interesting. I haven’t got a lot of time to listen to listen yet though.


Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## mammal

simorag said:


> There are a few posts (e.g. 1, 2, 3) about this in the AIC-10 thread, and the consensus is that tube rolling on the Riviera does make a clearly audible difference, thus making room to further 'fine tuning' of this amp to your hp synergy / tastes. Grossly simplyfying, Mullard tubes are the most euphoric / richest, Radiotechnique or Fivre (among other options) are pretty balanced, Telefunken ECC802S are the clearest / most transparent.


I definitely need to read on this some more. Was hoping to avoid tube rolling, but in your ears I trust. I am guessing those tubes make more difference than SC cable? We have already established that Viva / Riviera changes the sound more than SC itself. I am testing now with Rossini Master Clock, wondering how till it change the sound of the source component.


----------



## cjarrett

I found it fairly funny that the new stand can be retrofitted to be an under the desk stand.  I even have my watch/iPhone charger on the base up top


----------



## koven

cjarrett said:


> I found it fairly funny that the new stand can be retrofitted to be an under the desk stand.  I even have my watch/iPhone charger on the base up top



Lol, genius.


----------



## x RELIC x

jlbrach said:


> I have a question for those more technically proficient than I am....I have owned all versions of the abyss 1266 and have owned tons of different amps as well as listening to numerous others including speaker amps...many of the amps were far more powerful than the 2.3 w that the formula s/powerman puts into the abyss yet I have heard nothing that sounds as good as this combo...with the formula s/powerman the abyss has a huge soundstage, is incredible detailed,has the grunt and bass response that makes this headphone special...again, it only puts out 2.3w into the abyss...why ,at least to my ears does this combo work so well given the relatively modest power rating?....


Because power alone doesn’t make a techically good (low distortion and true to the source) amp, or pleasant (synergy with the gear and someones preferences) sounding amp. Plus, unless turning the volume to the max on the amp, the amp’s rated power spec isn’t what is actually being fed in to the headphone. Depending on the volume setting and the linearity of the volume control the headphone may only get 1/4 of the total available power RMS, or 1/3 during peaks (just as a hypothetical example for illustration purposes). Add power=incresed volume. Always.

When there is enough power to reach the desired volume for the largest dynamic peaks without distortion then the power ‘available’ after that is simply not used, unless the volume is increased further. There is always a threshold where enough is enough. So having an amp with headroom is a good idea, but spending more money chasing the most powerful amp for the sake of power isn’t. It’s easy to calculate the general power requirirements for a headphone. The rest is deciding if you want a technically superior amp with superb specs, or one that synergies with the transducer, as no transducer is perfect.


----------



## cangle

The amp I posted about on page 1110 didn't work out as in one of the internal parts broke so I sent it back. I was planning on getting a replacement but after thinking about it for a week or so I decided on a refund today. I ordered a Formula S and once the refund goes through I may get a Powerman too. The Formula S should be here tomorrow so I look forward to hearing that and will post some impressions too.


----------



## cjarrett

man, under my computer desk has become a cluster**** since I added remote laptop and macMini to my cable setup--🤢🤢🤮🤮


----------



## jlbrach

cangle said:


> The amp I posted about on page 1110 didn't work out as in one of the internal parts broke so I sent it back. I was planning on getting a replacement but after thinking about it for a week or so I decided on a refund today. I ordered a Formula S and once the refund goes through I may get a Powerman too. The Formula S should be here tomorrow so I look forward to hearing that and will post some impressions too.


the powerman is a must


----------



## cangle

jlbrach said:


> the powerman is a must


Planning on it. If all goes well with the refund I could see myself ordering sometime this coming week. The cost of the amp I'm returning is roughly the cost of the powerman so it works out well. Funny though that a power supply is sold for the same cost as a headphone amp but since everyone seems to praise it and I've heard the improvements a power supply can bring I see no reason not to get it.


----------



## cangle

Been listening to this tonight and it sounds really good on the 1266. Huge dynamics and the sense of space is big too. Would recommend if you like electronic or soundtrack music.


----------



## simorag (Jul 17, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> I have a question for those more technically proficient than I am....I have owned all versions of the abyss 1266 and have owned tons of different amps as well as listening to numerous others including speaker amps...many of the amps were far more powerful than the 2.3 w that the formula s/powerman puts into the abyss yet I have heard nothing that sounds as good as this combo...with the formula s/powerman the abyss has a huge soundstage, is incredible detailed,has the grunt and bass response that makes this headphone special...again, it only puts out 2.3w into the abyss...why ,at least to my ears does this combo work so well given the relatively modest power rating?....



First of all, you just need 0.7W to get the AB-1266 to 115dB SPL, so 2.3W - in the context of driving the Abyss -  already give you plenty of headroom for handling peaks and allow such amp to work in its comfort zone distortion-wise etc.

The only advantage of very powerful amps is that typically at low power they all function in class A, so you have the convenience of a class A amp without the heat and power consumption from a higher powered class A amp. But then I would go with low-power pure class A like the Formula S or my AIC-10.
Also, an amp designed to say 100W nominal will unlikely measure best at a fraction of a W (like 0.1-0.2W, which is what is needed during 70-80% or our listening time) unless it has loads of negative feedback, with all the negatives implied.

Moreover (stating the obvious here), especially for headphones, quality is dramatically more important than quantity, and your statement below (which I totally agree on):



jlbrach said:


> the powerman is a must



is a confirmation. The Powerman does not change the power rating of the Formula S, yet it improves it in all possible ways. The striking thing is that not only it sounds smoother, more refined, but also more dynamic and ... powerful, most likely as a result of the blacker background and better (i.e. with less distortion) instantaneous current / voltage peaks handling allowed by the improved power supply.

As for combos sounding _better _than the Formula S / Powerman on the Abyss, I have heard _several _of them, at lower (2A3 tube amps) or much higher (up to 200W speaker amps) power rating. Not saying that these amps were objectively better - only more aligned to my preferences perhaps - and in most cases the pricing was significantly higher, so the FS/PM is sure a solid no-problem choice for the Abyss.

If one is not scared / annoyed to mess with 2nd hand speaker amps (space occupation, heat, need from adapters, additional care in use), offerings from Pass Labs (e.g. XA25), Luxman (e.g. 590AX-II), Accuphase (E650) are achievable at a similar cost of a new XI Audio stack and I preferred any of the above to the FS/PM.


----------



## mammal

While I still have Viva Egoista 845 at home, which I consider a pinnacle of transparency, I wanted to hear how Rossini Master Clock into Bartok further improves 1266, and if it is worth the asking price to me (at 9k EUR). I can already say that for most of my listening being digitally produced EDM, I hear no difference whatsoever. For other type of music (recorded or at least partially) I hear very subtle differences that I would most likely fail a blind ABX test. My brain is telling me that those differences are a bit of airier presentation and maybe a tiny bit wider soundstage. Maybe I need more time to adjust to really pick up what a clock does, but this reminds me my earlier testing with Chord MScaler, which after 2 weeks of using I did pick up differences, but so subtle it was not really the price to me either. People on dCS forums swear by these clocks, so much so that they call it an absolute requirement for Rossini DAC, perhaps Bartok is not capable of utilising it properly, even though some dCS folks I spoke to say they it can. I am starting to think my brain/ears are less sensitive to timing issues, and I more pick up on the frequency response (hence silver/copper cable I can blind ABX).


----------



## Articnoise

jlbrach said:


> I have a question for those more technically proficient than I am....I have owned all versions of the abyss 1266 and have owned tons of different amps as well as listening to numerous others including speaker amps...many of the amps were far more powerful than the 2.3 w that the formula s/powerman puts into the abyss yet I have heard nothing that sounds as good as this combo...with the formula s/powerman the abyss has a huge soundstage, is incredible detailed,has the grunt and bass response that makes this headphone special...again, it only puts out 2.3w into the abyss...why ,at least to my ears does this combo work so well given the relatively modest power rating?....



There are a few basic things you need to understand to sort this out. I will not go through them all. An important aspect is however that the amount of amplification is directly limited by the type and number of transistors that the solid state amplification has. A amp cannot deliver more power than the transistors can handel. For tube amps, it is the tubes them-self that is limiting the output power. 

This is why the number of watts does not increase if you use a Powerman, although it has a larger and better power supply than the one in Formula S. The number of transistors has not changed at all after all and therefore it will measures the same amount of watts at the output. A larger and better power supply has many other benefits to the sound reproduction thou, that you can hear when you connect a Powerman (everything else being equal).


----------



## cangle

Formula S just arrived and I just turned it on to warm it up before I give it a listen. For those of you who own it do you just leave it on all the time? With the switch in the back it seems like that is what's intended.


----------



## mammal

cangle said:


> Formula S just arrived and I just turned it on to warm it up before I give it a listen. For those of you who own it do you just leave it on all the time? With the switch in the back it seems like that is what's intended.


Abyss in one of their older videos said that the only amp they keep turning off when not in use is WA33, as it runs hot and one wants to preserve their tube life.


----------



## MatW

cangle said:


> Formula S just arrived and I just turned it on to warm it up before I give it a listen. For those of you who own it do you just leave it on all the time? With the switch in the back it seems like that is what's intended.


I think quite a few leave it on. I switch it off after use.


----------



## cangle

MatW said:


> I think quite a few leave it on. I switch it off after use.


How long do you find that it takes to warm up to produce the best sound? My unit seems to have reached a constant temperature based on how hot it feels to touch after an hour or so.


----------



## MatW

cangle said:


> How long do you find that it takes to warm up to produce the best sound? My unit seems to have reached a constant temperature based on how hot it feels to touch after an hour or so.


It sounds pretty good to me from the start. Unlike my tube amp, which I feel needs about 15 minutes to warm up.


----------



## jlbrach

cangle said:


> Formula S just arrived and I just turned it on to warm it up before I give it a listen. For those of you who own it do you just leave it on all the time? With the switch in the back it seems like that is what's intended.


I leave mine on all the time, it doesnt get hot and I have had zero issues


----------



## cangle

jlbrach said:


> I leave mine on all the time, it doesnt get hot and I have had zero issues


The top of my unit gets warm to the touch but not uncomfortable to leave my hand there. The other surfaces of the amp are cool though. Is this about the same for you?


----------



## jlbrach

mine is barely warm,no issue at all


----------



## DJJEZ (Jul 17, 2021)

cangle said:


> Formula S just arrived and I just turned it on to warm it up before I give it a listen. For those of you who own it do you just leave it on all the time? With the switch in the back it seems like that is what's intended.


i keep mine on permantly as i use my headphone system daily plus its class A, they sound best after 45 mins to an hour of being warmed up from cold.  i also keep my DAVE on permantly. this way everytime i go to listen everything is at peak performance


----------



## jlbrach

I do the same with both


----------



## cangle

I was starting to worry why just the Formula S I have is running warmer than others seems to say. Mostly because my last amp failed by getting very hot and started smoking. I'm guessing that the transformer in the Formula S only runs without the powerman lending to the extra heat with my unit. I suppose with the powerman under the Formula S then heat from the powerman would rise up and disperse through the fins on the amp. And the lack of a running transformer would cause the whole Formula S to run cooler than mine is at the moment.

I listened for two hours after it arrived today and I'm pretty happy so far. The only downside is maybe the size of the stage is a little smaller in width than my last amp although all other characteristics are an improvement. Similar to the last amp I had before it failed, the one that started smoking, the bass is more controlled but the Formula S seems to slam a bit harder. I get more of a center image with this amp and the holographic sound stage is there too. The vocals seem more forward too, almost intimate compared to the thin nature of the vocals out of the FA-12 that I had used before. I guess the word I would use would be cohesive or musical. I'm pretty much set on buying the powerman, but I sent an email to Abyss about it so will order once they get back to me. I'm looking forward to seeing how the two play together.

Also the build is very impressive, much more solid than any amp I have used before as there is no flex anywhere. Plus the form factor is nice and the volume wheel although not stepped is smooth with no audible channel imbalance. Even though the last amp I used did 16W, I feel like just with how the volume knob is implemented I'm getting more gain out of the Formula S.


----------



## jlbrach

based upon my experience where my formula s/powerman barely get warm at all and are both on 24/7 I would definitely look into it if it is running very hot..no question the combo punches well above its 6w rating


----------



## cangle (Jul 17, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> based upon my experience where my formula s/powerman barely get warm at all and are both on 24/7 I would definitely look into it if it is running very hot..no question the combo punches well above its 6w rating


I emailed Abyss about this, will see what they say. I know in the Formula S video they said it runs warm and it's temperature is similar to my previous amp, the Flux FA-12 which had some vents but no heatsinks. It hasn't yet reached the temperature of my old version 1 Schiit Lyr so I'm not so worried just want to make sure all is well with it


----------



## Slim1970

jlbrach said:


> based upon my experience where my formula s/powerman barely get warm at all and are both on 24/7 I would definitely look into it if it is running very hot..no question the combo punches well above its 6w rating


It sure does. The Powerman really improves the sound tremendously.


----------



## DJJEZ

cangle said:


> I emailed Abyss about this, will see what they say. I know in the Formula S video they said it runs warm and it's temperature is similar to my previous amp, the Flux FA-12 which had some vents but no heatsinks. It hasn't yet reached the temperature of my old version 1 Schiit Lyr so I'm not so worried just want to make sure all is well with it



My powerman gets very warm. I thought this was completely normal as Class A gets very hot.


----------



## cangle

DJJEZ said:


> My powerman gets very warm. I thought this was completely normal as Class A gets very hot.


Good to know, I'm used to class A warmth too just a bit cautious after my last amp had a transformer failure. This temperature difference could just be a difference between revisions of the Formula S / Powerman. Also it seems the heat on my unit is coming from the amp modules not the transformer which makes sense as the amp module heatsinks are right under the part of the Formula S that gets warm, the rest is relatively cool.

Thanks for the input on everyone's experience with the amp and if you think I should move over to the Formula S thread instead I can do that too.


----------



## drew911d

simorag said:


> The "transducer-first" approach, where you build an entire system in order to maximise your subjective enjoyment of a loudspeaker (or a pair of headphones in this case) you feel it is specially well fit for you is a totally legit way to proceed, I see nothing wrong with it.
> A unique kind of gear like the AB-1266 TC can bring to such approach
> 
> 
> ...


Can you recommend an adapter to get for the Riviera speaker taps?  Thinking SC, but would like to get opinions.


----------



## ajaipuriyar

drew911d said:


> Can you recommend an adapter to get for the Riviera speaker taps?  Thinking SC, but would like to get opinions.


JPS won’t make one for you. 

They officially don’t recommend running headphones with speaker taps.


----------



## GOKYO

MacedonianHero said:


> There was certainly more than just one.


show me....I have been using speaker amps with headphones for 40 years.i have never 'blown' my headphones.
cary 805 with akg1000
threshold- with he-6
VAC 70/70 with lcd 4

presently using lcd4 with airtight atm 300..amazing sound


----------



## simorag

drew911d said:


> Can you recommend an adapter to get for the Riviera speaker taps?  Thinking SC, but would like to get opinions.



Ideally it would be a custom SC cable running straight from the HP mini xlr and terminated with banana or spades directly manufactured by JPS - i.e. no adapter at all .. but that is not available unfortunately.

On the other hand, I have tried a few adapters, including Forza Audio Works (pure copper), my current ones (based on Acrolink 7N copper, silver plated conductors) from Invictus Cables (an Italian artisan) and a DHC from a friend (I believe it was pure silver), and I honestly could not tell the difference. So my suggestion is to get a decent one made custom from a trusted manufacturer in your area.


----------



## carboncopy

GOKYO said:


> show me....I have been using speaker amps with headphones for 40 years.i have never 'blown' my headphones.
> cary 805 with akg1000
> threshold- with he-6
> VAC 70/70 with lcd 4
> ...


That combintion must be really outstanding! I do feel, that the overall quality of the headphone systems are limited because of the electronics used. Airtight makes amazing amps.


----------



## mammal

simorag said:


> Ideally it would be a custom SC cable running straight from the HP mini xlr and terminated with banana or spades directly manufactured by JPS - i.e. no adapter at all .. but that is not available unfortunately.


You can get this work commissioned by DHC, @onlychild had his done like this with Susvara + Riviera + Prion4


----------



## Solan

DJJEZ said:


> My powerman gets very warm. I thought this was completely normal as Class A gets very hot.


It should not matter, since the Powerman is a Power Supply and not an amplifier. The _Class A_ (and so on) classification does not apply to it. It might matter that it will be continuously providing current to the Formula S amplifier, since *it* is Class A. But still, note this: The heat emanating from the power supply is the *power supply's internal energy loss*. So the question is if it loses more energy internally than it needs to. That is, it's a matter of its efficiency. This said, I do not believe _good_ PSU == _efficient_ PSU in the audio world. An efficient PSU might achieve its efficiency at the cost of being noisier.

I hope this random reply was of some kind of help.


----------



## Articnoise

Solan said:


> It should not matter, since the Powerman is a Power Supply and not an amplifier. The _Class A_ (and so on) classification does not apply to it. It might matter that it will be continuously providing current to the Formula S amplifier, since *it* is Class A. But still, note this: The heat emanating from the power supply is the *power supply's internal energy loss*. So the question is if it loses more energy internally than it needs to. That is, it's a matter of its efficiency. This said, I do not believe _good_ PSU == _efficient_ PSU in the audio world. An efficient PSU might achieve its efficiency at the cost of being noisier.
> 
> I hope this random reply was of some kind of help.



With Class A the output transistors run with constant bias. This mean that they run at full effect, whether there's an input signal or not. This means that the PSU also has to run on full effect all the time, which in turn will genererat a lot of heat as 80% of their power will be turned into heat.


----------



## Gadget67

drew911d said:


> Can you recommend an adapter to get for the Riviera speaker taps?  Thinking SC, but would like to get opinions.


Big fan of moon audio.  Call them and they can make one for you.  I suggest silver dragon.

https://www.moon-audio.com/


----------



## Pashmeister

drew911d said:


> Can you recommend an adapter to get for the Riviera speaker taps?  Thinking SC, but would like to get opinions.


Since I already use Norne Audio headphone cables I got Norne Audio speaker taps as well.


----------



## Litlgi74

ajaipuriyar said:


> JPS won’t make one for you.
> 
> They officially don’t recommend running headphones with speaker taps.


This is not true...JPS will make one for you... @ken6217 had one made. SC cable... Think he paid $500.


----------



## jlbrach

Litlgi74 said:


> This is not true...JPS will make one for you... @ken6217 had one made. SC cable... Think he paid $500.


they will make anything if you pay for it but they are pretty adamant that they do not suggest or agree with it


----------



## Litlgi74

jlbrach said:


> they will make anything if you pay for it but they are pretty adamant that they do not suggest or agree with it


No risk no reward...

Thank goodness we're all adults.


----------



## Gadget67

jlbrach said:


> they will make anything if you pay for it but they are pretty adamant that they do not suggest or agree with it


I’m sure they don’t but I don’t see any reference to not using an amp with speaker taps on their web site.  Is it in one of their videos?


----------



## ufospls2

Litlgi74 said:


> This is not true...JPS will make one for you... @ken6217 had one made. SC cable... Think he paid $500.



That looks like an ultraconductor, not superconductor. I could be wrong and it's in the wire content vs the sleeving.


----------



## jlbrach

Gadget67 said:


> I’m sure they don’t but I don’t see any reference to not using an amp with speaker taps on their web site.  Is it in one of their videos?


yes, they have said it numerous times fwiiw


----------



## ken6217 (Jul 18, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> they will make anything if you pay for it but they are pretty adamant that they do not suggest or agree with it


That’s not the SC banana plug to female XLR. Mine is the same soft jacket as the SC headphone cable. $500.00? I wish.

Joe, doesn’t say you shouldn’t use a speaker amp, but he doesn’t condone it either.


----------



## ajaipuriyar (Jul 18, 2021)

Litlgi74 said:


> This is not true...JPS will make one for you... @ken6217 had one made. SC cable... Think he paid $500.


How long ago was this?

Selling this adapter is counter intuitive to your business plan when u sell top end headphone amps as well. Specially if one edition has your name on it.

Below is their reply to me when I asked them nicely in the last week of Jan 2021.


----------



## Gadget67

ajaipuriyar said:


> How long ago was this?
> 
> Selling this adapter is counter intuitive to your business plan when u sell top end headphone amps as well. Specially if one edition has your name on it.
> 
> Below is their reply to me when I asked them nicely in the last week of Jan 2021.


Finally!!!  Thanks for providing something (more or less) specific.  I do note they are being very careful not to give an outright “NO”.  Honestly, my TT2 provides plenty of power from the rear XLR’s but I’d at least like to try a speaker amp at some point to scratch the itch and do my own comparison.  No hurry for me however!


----------



## ken6217

I probably got in under the wire.


----------



## Gadget67

ken6217 said:


> I probably got in *under the wire*.


…so to speak…


----------



## ken6217

ajaipuriyar said:


> How long ago was this?
> 
> Selling this adapter is counter intuitive to your business plan when u sell top end headphone amps as well. Specially if one edition has your name on it.
> 
> Below is their reply to me when I asked them nicely in the last week of Jan 2021.


Not really, with that philosophy then they should just use a proprietary plug on their headphone cable and input on their amp so you can only use their products.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Company that benefits from partnership selling headphone amps $12k-$16k doesn't support speaker amp use. Color me surprised lol


----------



## ken6217

number1sixerfan said:


> Company that benefits from partnership selling headphone amps $12k-$16k doesn't support speaker amp use. Color me surprised lol


I think the philosophy is that he doesn’t want someone to blow out their drivers and then want it covered under warranty.


----------



## number1sixerfan

ken6217 said:


> I think the philosophy is that he doesn’t want someone to blow out their drivers and then want it covered under warranty.


I hear you, but I have a hard time believing that. You can blow your drivers either way, and it takes considerable carelessness to do so.


----------



## Gadget67 (Jul 18, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> Not really, with that philosophy then they should just use a proprietary plug on their headphone cable and input on their amp so you can only use their products.


Well, actually, their mini XLR headphone  connection is unique to them.  I’d hoped I’d be able to use my mini XLR cables from Audeze and ZMF, but no such luck.  I bought converters, but really…why?  I don’t blame them for wanting to sell their product but a “standard” mini XLR or 3.5 connector would have helped!


----------



## Gadget67

ken6217 said:


> I think the philosophy is that he doesn’t want someone to blow out their drivers and then want it covered under warranty.





number1sixerfan said:


> I hear you, but I have a hard time believing that. You can blow your drivers either way, and it takes considerable carelessness to do so.


My TT2 can drive these to insane levels if my ears could take it.  I always check volume levels before playing music but I assume even the TT2 could blow out a driver.  I most certainly DON’T blame them for downplaying the use of powerful speaker amps though.


----------



## ufospls2

Gadget67 said:


> Well, actually, their mini XLR headphone  connection is unique to them.  I’d hoped I’d be able to use my mini XLR cables from Audeze and ZMF, but no such luck.  I bought converters, but really…why?  I don’t blame them for wanting to sell their product but a mini XLR or 3.5 connector would have helped!


 Mini 3pin XLR is used on some AKG's and stuff as well, but only on one side as far as I can remember. Its not a proprietary connector by any means, vs something like the Mr speakers connector.


----------



## Gadget67

ufospls2 said:


> Mini 3pin XLR is used on some AKG's and stuff as well, but only on one side as far as I can remember. Its not a proprietary connector by any means, vs something like the Mr speakers connector.


Ha!  Moon audio shows no less than 33 separate headphone connector possibilities for their Silver Dragon headphone cable and there are probably more than that.  I can’t keep up…


----------



## ken6217 (Jul 18, 2021)

number1sixerfan said:


> I hear you, but I have a hard time believing that. You can blow your drivers either way, and it takes considerable carelessness to do so.



I would think an amp putting out 150 or 250 watts would be more likely to cause damage than an amp made for headphones.

Do you honestly think they won't make a speaker amp adapter just because they want you to buy their amps? What % of the people with 1266 headphones do you think have the Formula and WA33 versus all other amps out there?


----------



## jlbrach

ken6217 said:


> Not really, with that philosophy then they should just use a proprietary plug on their headphone cable and input on their amp so you can only use their products.


they sell all sorts of other products from other manufacturers on their website so I would assume if they believed a speaker amp appropriate they would have no trouble either selling an adapter or even a speaker amp


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> they sell all sorts of other products from other manufacturers on their website so I would assume if they believed a speaker amp appropriate they would have no trouble either selling an adapter or even a speaker amp


Exactly. They don’t believe in using speaker amp. You just made my case.


----------



## number1sixerfan

ken6217 said:


> I would think an amp putting out 150 or 250 watts would be more likely to cause damage than an amp made for headphones.
> 
> Do you honestly think they won't make a speaker amp adapter just because they want you to buy their amps? What % of the people with 1266 headphones do you think have the Formula and WA33 versus all other amps out there?



That plus margin (or the lack thereof) in doing so, yes. If they were that concerned with blowing drivers, I promise you, partnering with Woo on this amp that can also power speakers wouldn't make sense. That imho just isn't the concern.


----------



## ken6217

I’ve used Levinson, Pass Labs, Audio Research, and Simaudio speaker amps. I called each of those companies before buying them and asked them if there was any issues using their amp with a 48 ohm load, since  they are really made for 8,6,4 ohm speakers. They all said there is no issue for their amp, but they were concerned about the headphones.

With that said, I’ve never had an issue, but I make certain I’m careful with the volume as well as turning the amp on last, and off first.


----------



## paradoxper

It's more than that. Modern headamps capable of these hard to drive planar loads are universally outfitted with protection mechanisms that many speaker amps aren't.

They cover this small basis in their blabbering videos. of which I quite enjoy.

This is likely the cause for concern more than careless volume attenuation.


----------



## Solan

I fail to see the point of using an amp that could output power *way* past what you are interested in exposing your ears to. The headphones react to the actual current going through its wires, not the current that _could_ have gone through. And even though "power reserve" is a popular term to bandy around, again it actually doesn't matter unless it goes through the cables. Sure, some amps may become non-linear towards their extremes, but that's not the same as requiring 10x actual output "in reserve" unless the amp design is downright crappy. Better, then, to aim for a well designed amp than one capable of sending the diaphragms to the Moon.


----------



## ken6217 (Jul 19, 2021)

It’s not that all speaker amps are going to sound good. It’s not throwing more power at it is what makes any amp sound good. If that was the case you could just get a cheap crappy 150 W amp or so and connect it to the headphones. There’s much much more to a great sounding amp than the amount of power it puts out.

For instance, the Simaudio 600i V2 that I currently have is a popular favorite for Abyss headphones. That’s where I learned about it, from this forum.

In my experience of using really good speaker amps, it’s more about the soundstage, both  horizontal and vertical, the spacing of the instruments, as well as  the texture of the instruments that makes them stand out.

The amps that I’m referring amplifiers are Stereophile Class A rated for speaker set ups. If they are that good for speakers, then why shouldn’t they be just as good for the 1266 which shines even more with better associated equipment with it.

if you want to argue any point, think about how these amplifiers are less expensive by a fair margin than a WA33. Now that’s a head scratcher. Not the base model.


----------



## Pashmeister

ken6217 said:


> It’s not that all speaker amps are going to sound good. It’s not throwing more power at it is what makes any amp sound good. If that was the case you could just get a cheap crappy 150 W amp or so and connect it to the headphones. There’s much much more to a great sounding amp than the amount of power it puts out.
> 
> For instance, the Simaudio 600i V2 that I currently have is a popular favorite for Abyss headphones. That’s where I learned about it, from this forum.
> 
> ...


Yep. For the same achievement in sound quality that you’re chasing, you can either spend 5-10k on headphone amps or 1-2k on on very good speaker amps (that are also plentiful in the 2nd hand market). You’ll need proper care in using power amps of course, but it’s much easier than it seems. I’m pretty happy using speaker amps on Susvaras and TCs. I had the choice option to partner my Tc with a totl headphone amp. Instead I spent the money on a 2nd hand Susvara and a 2nd hand power amp and I’m beyond happy.


----------



## ken6217

i’m not sure where you help to find a good speaker ramp from $1000 - $2000 even used.


----------



## littlej0e

Does anyone have both the XI Audio Formula S + Powerman and the Raal HSA-1b? I'm looking for a first-hand comparison between the two with the TCs. I've been pitting the TCs against the SR1as and discovered the HSA-1b can drive the TCs shockingly well, but I'm wondering if the FS+P can do it even better.


----------



## mammal

littlej0e said:


> Does anyone have both the XI Audio Formula S + Powerman and the Raal HSA-1b? I'm looking for a first-hand comparison between the two with the TCs. I've been pitting the TCs against the SR1as and discovered the HSA-1b can drive the TCs shockingly well, but I'm wondering if the FS+P can do it even better.


I think @jlbrach does


----------



## Slim1970

littlej0e said:


> Does anyone have both the XI Audio Formula S + Powerman and the Raal HSA-1b? I'm looking for a first-hand comparison between the two with the TCs. I've been pitting the TCs against the SR1as and discovered the HSA-1b can drive the TCs shockingly well, but I'm wondering if the FS+P can do it even better.


I only know of one forum member who does and that is @jlbrach


----------



## number1sixerfan

ken6217 said:


> i’m not sure where you help to find a good speaker ramp from $1000 - $2000 even used.



I'm not extremely experienced here, as I'm now just really exploring speaker amps, but I'm using a nice Marantz power amp that I bought second hand at $600 or so. I don't love the amp, brand or anything, it was just affordable. I do have to say, I am remarkably impressed with how close it comes to both the HSA-1b and the Woo. And that in no way is a knock on either of those amps, but I'm convinced you don't have to have a TOTL speaker amp to come close to TOTL headphone amp performance. I have a Primaluna EVO 400 on the way, which I'm assuming will be even better, but from a budget standpoint I think you can get extremely good performance in that price range if you just dig through, find them and try them out.


----------



## ken6217

number1sixerfan said:


> I'm not extremely experienced here, as I'm now just really exploring speaker amps, but I'm using a nice Marantz power amp that I bought second hand at $600 or so. I don't love the amp, brand or anything, it was just affordable. I do have to say, I am remarkably impressed with how close it comes to both the HSA-1b and the Woo. And that in no way is a knock on either of those amps, but I'm convinced you don't have to have a TOTL speaker amp to come close to TOTL headphone amp performance. I have a Primaluna EVO 400 on the way, which I'm assuming will be even better, but from a budget standpoint I think you can get extremely good performance in that price range if you just dig through, find them and try them out.


The Primaluna 400 does sound nice .


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jul 19, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> i’m not sure where you help to find a good speaker ramp from $1000 - $2000 even used.


I found one... and purchased it.

Long live the Moon 600i


----------



## ken6217

Litlgi74 said:


> I found one... and purchased it.
> 
> Long live the Moon 600i


You  paid under $2000? Great deal.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jul 19, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> You  paid under $2000? Great deal.


Paid $2000... Purchased it from a Head-fi member getting out of the hobby. 

Right place... Right time.


----------



## ken6217

Good deal


----------



## Litlgi74

ken6217 said:


> Good deal


You still have the 600i... Thought you went with Audio Research?


----------



## ken6217

I did, and went back to the 600i V2. Demoed the WA33, but didn’t care for it.


----------



## jlbrach

littlej0e said:


> Does anyone have both the XI Audio Formula S + Powerman and the Raal HSA-1b? I'm looking for a first-hand comparison between the two with the TCs. I've been pitting the TCs against the SR1as and discovered the HSA-1b can drive the TCs shockingly well, but I'm wondering if the FS+P can do it even better.


I do indeed, I love the formula s /powerman with the abyss TC...I think it is the best headphone amp pairing for the TC,certainly best I have heard...cant argue with those who prefer speaker amps...the 1b is fantastic with the sr1a and quite good with the abyss and the susvara....not quite as good as the formula s combo especially with the abyss but all in all the 1b does an excellent job with the planars


----------



## littlej0e

jlbrach said:


> I do indeed, I love the formula s /powerman with the abyss TC...I think it is the best headphone amp pairing for the TC,certainly best I have heard...cant argue with those who prefer speaker amps...the 1b is fantastic with the sr1a and quite good with the abyss and the susvara....not quite as good as the formula s combo especially with the abyss but all in all the 1b does an excellent job with the planars



Thank you for the comparison and insight, sir!


----------



## Roasty (Jul 19, 2021)

Singxer SA-1 on high gain. Drives it pretty well, volume knob at 12 o'clock.

Lots of bass but very bloomy and not as tight as from the Milo Reference or Apollon power amp.  The upside is the highs do not sound stringent/strained at all.

All in all, it does much better with the Abyss than it did with the Susvara... For the price, it is an OK compromise. But if you have the dosh to dish out on an Abyss 1266, you should be looking at better (also meaning pricier) amp pairings.

*edit
just tried swapping back to the Wells Milo Reference, and it is a no contest. The Abyss sounds so luscious and romantic with the Milo Ref. really wish i could try the Headtrip.


----------



## jlbrach

Roasty said:


> Singxer SA-1 on high gain. Drives it pretty well, volume knob at 12 o'clock.
> 
> Lots of bass but very bloomy and not as tight as from the Milo Reference or Apollon power amp.  The upside is the highs do not sound stringent/strained at all.
> 
> ...


try the formula s /powerman


----------



## Pashmeister

ken6217 said:


> i’m not sure where you help to find a good speaker ramp from $1000 - $2000 even used.


As those who mentioned above me, there’s plenty. An example is the OG Timekeeper that performs exceptional. Edges out the powerman combo at 800usd used. First watt does a great job at a good price as well. Older model Primalunas around 2k. As a susvara/tc owner I think it’s fun we get to explore these.


----------



## littlej0e (Jul 20, 2021)

Pashmeister said:


> As those who mentioned above me, there’s plenty. An example is the OG Timekeeper that performs exceptional. Edges out the powerman combo at 800usd used. First watt does a great job at a good price as well. Older model Primalunas around 2k. As a susvara/tc owner I think it’s fun we get to explore these.


Now we’re talking… I was looking at getting the formula s  + powerman combo to use as my daily driver for the TCs, but now I’m starting to think a speaker amp might actually give me better sound quality. I’m after the very best SQ I can get in the 7-10k msrp price range. The Moon 600i seems to be recommended pretty often (and by a friend of mine). Can you, or anyone else, speak to the differences in SQ between the formula s + powerman compared to the [insert your fav here] speaker amp?


----------



## simorag

littlej0e said:


> Now we’re talking… I was looking at getting the formula s  + powerman combo to use as my daily driver for the TCs, but now I’m starting to think a speaker amp might actually give me better sound quality. I’m after the very best SQ I can get in the 6-10k msrp price range. The Moon 600i seems to be recommended pretty often (and by a friend of mine). Can you, or anyone else, speak to the differences in SQ between the formula s + powerman compared to the [insert your fav here] speaker amp?



Not @Pashmeister, but I'll add my own 2C here. An amp like the 600i is the classic fist in a velvet glove, plenty of power but delivered with finesse, clarity and transparency. With this kind of amps (another example is the NAGRA Classic), the advantage I felt ofver the FS/PM was an improvement in spaciousness, a finer grain at the top end and an even more apparent sense of speed and effortlessness.

On the other hand, there are amps with a more defined inner personality, like the Riviera AIC-10, or the Leben CS600X, or even or the Sugden A21 SE signature, where the thicker, warmer signature meshes with the TC by slightly changing their tonality. Being the Formula S / Powerman on a pretty "neutral" setting, these other amps will impart a bit more of their own character, e.g. by providing some more midrange saturation / forwardness, with some slight trade off in transparency and rounding the transients.

In between the two categories above fall neutral-to-warm voiced amps like the Pass Labs XA25 or the Luxman AX590II that give you a mix of both kind of improvements.

Personally, I tend to like the second category of amps the most, when it comes to the AB-1266, but of course YMMV.


----------



## SuperBurrito

I'm waiting on a speaker tap adapter to be made so I can try out my Chord Ttoby power amp. It will be interesting to see how the Ttoby power amp compares to the Luxman HP amp.  

I would guess that in many cases, a quality power amp will blow away a more expensive HP amp.  Some companies producing Stereophile Class A power amps probably spend 100x as much on R&D and manufacturing than some tiny shop with a few people making basically homemade HP amps.  Like a Ferrari vs. a homemade car.


----------



## Litlgi74

Speaker amps, speaker amps and more speaker amps.. how quickly the conversation has changed... SMH.


----------



## SuperBurrito

Litlgi74 said:


> Speaker amps, speaker amps and more speaker amps.. how quickly the conversation has changed... SMH.


If there is a better way to drive my TC and Susvara, I want to know, and to use it!  That's why I'm looking into this option.
No different than discussing which cables, DACs, etc. work best with the 1266.


----------



## Litlgi74

SuperBurrito said:


> If there is a better way to drive my TC and Susvara, I want to know, and to use it!  That's why I'm looking into this option.
> No different than discussing which cables, DACs, etc. work best with the 1266.


I was being facetious. I purchased my speaker amp to drive both my TCs and my SR1as... Very pleased with the combo.

But based on @paradoxper insistence.. I will try out the CFA3.


----------



## Articnoise

simorag said:


> Not @Pashmeister, but I'll add my own 2C here. An amp like the 600i is the classic fist in a velvet glove, plenty of power but delivered with finesse, clarity and transparency. With this kind of amps (another example is the NAGRA Classic), the advantage I felt ofver the FS/PM was an improvement in spaciousness, a finer grain at the top end and an even more apparent sense of speed and effortlessness.
> 
> On the other hand, there are amps with a more defined inner personality, like the Riviera AIC-10, or the Leben CS600X, or even or the Sugden A21 SE signature, where the thicker, warmer signature meshes with the TC by slightly changing their tonality. Being the Formula S / Powerman on a pretty "neutral" setting, these other amps will impart a bit more of their own character, e.g. by providing some more midrange saturation / forwardness, with some slight trade off in transparency and rounding the transients.
> 
> ...



Excellent summary as usual. I would like to add that the DAC and source will also affect the final cold-neutral-to-warm scale.


----------



## littlej0e

simorag said:


> Not @Pashmeister, but I'll add my own 2C here. An amp like the 600i is the classic fist in a velvet glove, plenty of power but delivered with finesse, clarity and transparency. With this kind of amps (another example is the NAGRA Classic), the advantage I felt ofver the FS/PM was an improvement in spaciousness, a finer grain at the top end and an even more apparent sense of speed and effortlessness.
> 
> On the other hand, there are amps with a more defined inner personality, like the Riviera AIC-10, or the Leben CS600X, or even or the Sugden A21 SE signature, where the thicker, warmer signature meshes with the TC by slightly changing their tonality. Being the Formula S / Powerman on a pretty "neutral" setting, these other amps will impart a bit more of their own character, e.g. by providing some more midrange saturation / forwardness, with some slight trade off in transparency and rounding the transients.
> 
> ...


Thank you _*very*_ much for your impressions and info. Really seems like a speaker amp is the way to go. I absolutely love the sound out of the WA33 EE JPS, but it heats up my office like it's the 7th circle of hell and you can literally cook an egg on it after 3-4 hours of use. It would also be nice to save my tubes as using it as my daily driver for work 8+ hrs a day is bound to significantly shorten their lifespan. Alternatively, I can always use the HSA-1b as my daily and quit whining like a nerd with first class, first world problems - haha...

Based on how the TCs sound out of the Raal HSA-1b with my Phasure XLRs, I'd like to go for a slightly warmer profile and remove some of the metallic "tinginess" if possible. Seems like a Moon 600i V2, Pass XA25, Pass INT-60, or Luxman AX590II would fit best. Also curious about the CFA3...


----------



## Articnoise

littlej0e said:


> Thank you _*very*_ much for your impressions and info. Really seems like a speaker amp is the way to go. I absolutely love the sound out of the WA33 EE JPS, but it heats up my office like it's the 7th circle of hell and you can literally cook an egg on it after 3-4 hours of use. It would also be nice to save my tubes as using it as my daily driver for work 8+ hrs a day is bound to significantly shorten their lifespan. Alternatively, I can always use the HSA-1b as my daily and quit whining like a nerd with first class, first world problems - haha...
> 
> Based on how the TCs sound out of the Raal HSA-1b with my Phasure XLRs, I'd like to go for a slightly warmer profile and remove some of the metallic "tinginess" if possible. Seems like a Moon 600i V2, Pass XA25, Pass INT-60, or Luxman AX590II would fit best. Also curious about the CFA3...



I hate to be the guy, but don't get a Moon 600i if you like to get a warmer, lusher or more pleasing sound.


----------



## mammal

littlej0e said:


> Thank you _*very*_ much for your impressions and info. Really seems like a speaker amp is the way to go. I absolutely love the sound out of the WA33 EE JPS, but it heats up my office like it's the 7th circle of hell and you can literally cook an egg on it after 3-4 hours of use. It would also be nice to save my tubes as using it as my daily driver for work 8+ hrs a day is bound to significantly shorten their lifespan. Alternatively, I can always use the HSA-1b as my daily and quit whining like a nerd with first class, first world problems - haha...
> 
> Based on how the TCs sound out of the Raal HSA-1b with my Phasure XLRs, I'd like to go for a slightly warmer profile and remove some of the metallic "tinginess" if possible. Seems like a Moon 600i V2, Pass XA25, Pass INT-60, or Luxman AX590II would fit best. Also curious about the CFA3...


Have you considered Riviera AIC-10?


----------



## littlej0e

Articnoise said:


> I hate to be the guy, but don't get a Moon 600i if you like to get a warmer, lusher or more pleasing sound.


I'm glad you were that guy because you are absolutely right. The fine gentlemen that originally recommended it explicitly told me it sounds neutral and I still stupidly put it on the "warm" list. Thanks!  

The more I shop around and the more research I do, the more interested in the CFA3 I become (or a slightly warmer variation of it).


----------



## littlej0e (Jul 20, 2021)

mammal said:


> Have you considered Riviera AIC-10?


Yes indeed, but it seems some folks were quite underwhelmed by it compared to other speaker amps available. I'm flying blind here, so I wouldn't know.

Unfortunately, this is going to be a 90% blind buy/trade. Even if I get an opportunity to demo one of these speaker amps, it likely won't be with the TCs on my rig specifically and I learned the hard way that is the only demoing that really matters.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Jul 20, 2021)

Since we talk about speaker amps extensively - and now I want one as well - could you guys remind me of the do's and don't do issues when using the tc with it?
What I know is - get a speaker output-xlr adapter from a reputable source. Anything else? How many watt per channel - does it matter?


----------



## ken6217

Articnoise said:


> I hate to be the guy, but don't get a Moon 600i if you like to get a warmer, lusher or more pleasing sound.


What are you comparing it to a tube amp? It is definitely warm of neutral. Certainly warmer than the Formula. Also, the current V2 version of the 600i is better sounding that the first version. 

The other thing that makes the 600i shine is not just the amp, but the preamp section.


----------



## ken6217

ken6217 said:


> What are you comparing it to a tube amp? It is definitely warm of neutral. Certainly warmer than the Formula, Chord, GSX. Also, the current V2 version of the 600i is better sounding that the first version.
> 
> The other thing that makes the 600i shine is not just the amp, but the preamp section.


----------



## littlej0e

ken6217 said:


> What are you comparing it to a tube amp? It is definitely warm of neutral. Certainly warmer than the Formula. Also, the current V2 version of the 600i is better sounding that the first version.
> 
> The other thing that makes the 600i shine is not just the amp, but the preamp section.


Speaking of the 600i V2...could you not plug the dual 3 pin XLR superconductor right into the back L and R inputs (pic attached for reference)?


----------



## ken6217

As you said, those are inputs. You plug the headphone into outputs.


----------



## littlej0e

ken6217 said:


> As you said, those are inputs. You plug the headphone into outputs.


Yep, nevermind. I'm tarded...


----------



## mammal

littlej0e said:


> Yes indeed, but it seems some folks were quite underwhelmed by it compared to other speaker amps available. I'm flying blind here, so I wouldn't know.
> 
> Unfortunately, this is going to be a 90% blind buy/trade. Even if I get an opportunity to demo one of these speaker amps, it likely won't be with the TCs on my rig specifically and I learned the hard way that is the only demoing that really matters.


Asking as you have mentioned you are after something warmer. I haven't heard WA33 (neither edition) so cannot compare to you, but in my extensive testing of Viva and Riviera, Viva was the transparent one, and Riviera added mids coloration which I liked.


----------



## genefruit (Jul 20, 2021)

delete


----------



## littlej0e

mammal said:


> Asking as you have mentioned you are after something warmer. I haven't heard WA33 (neither edition) so cannot compare to you, but in my extensive testing of Viva and Riviera, Viva was the transparent one, and Riviera added mids coloration which I liked.


Ohhh... In that case I will consider it. I really love musicality and adding a bit of warmth to the mids and highs on the TCs might be just what the doctor ordered to remove the slight metallic tingy-ness/industrial sound. The problem is adding too much puts me off rather quickly.


----------



## ken6217

littlej0e said:


> Yep, nevermind. I'm tarded...


No worries. Been there, done that


----------



## mammal

littlej0e said:


> Ohhh... In that case I will consider it. I really love musicality and adding a bit of warmth to the mids and highs on the TCs might be just what the doctor ordered to remove the slight metallic tingy-ness/industrial sound. *The problem is adding too much puts me off rather quickly.*


I don't know where your threshold is, and since the only gear we share is 1266, I cannot give you direct comparative advice. If you have ever heard Sennheiser HE-1, it had very lush/luxurious, but detailed and layered mids, BUT very small soundstage. Riviera fixes 1266 mids to me, while leaving the soundstage as wide as Susvara (not as wide as stock 1266 anymore). So my preference would be Viva (or Bartok being 90%) for cold vocal less EDM, and Riviera for indie rock, synth pop, unamplified accoustinc music, stuff like that. So much so, that I returned Susvara, Utopia, Valkyria headphones, as well as Viva amplifier, just to get Riviera, which next to Bartok makes all genres work on 1266 for me. Direct comparison impressions between Viva and Riviera are here, if you are interested.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Just a quick question. The tube speaker amp is arriving today and I'd like to use them with the TC/Susvara. I do have the raal/susvara interface boxes coming that should be here in a week or so. Is there major issue in using the headphones directly with the amp without? Again, it's an EVO 400. Just wandering because I know I read that it was more of a potential issue with tube amps vs. solid state. Any help is appreciated


----------



## paradoxper

Litlgi74 said:


> I was being facetious. I purchased my speaker amp to drive both my TCs and my SR1as... Very pleased with the combo.
> 
> But based on @paradoxper insistence.. I will try out the CFA3.


Now, today, I am shilling the LCD-R and Jot-A as the Revolution of Amazement.  

Or, well, yea, CFA3 is the best SS headamp and it's by a margin. The commercial guys just aren't very good.


----------



## mammal

paradoxper said:


> Or, well, yea, CFA3 is the best SS headamp and it's by a margin. The commercial guys just aren't very good.


Why do you think they aren't? I am not being smart ass, honestly asking. What would stop them from making a good amp? Audiophiles are willing to pay top cash, so why don't they?


----------



## paradoxper (Jul 20, 2021)

mammal said:


> Why do you think they aren't? I am not being smart ass, honestly asking. What would stop them from making a good amp? Audiophiles are willing to pay top cash, so why don't they?


Good amps are plentiful. Competent just as well. The best is a subjective judgement.

You go compare your Formula or Milo or Cavalli or Ray Samuels. You notice a trend of concession in engineering.

It is not magic nor slight. Go compare the CFA3 internals (bare to see to the world) and compare to your choice.

Marketing is the name of the game.


----------



## littlej0e (Jul 20, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> Good amps are plentiful. Competent just as well. The best is a subjective judgement.
> 
> You go compare your Forumula or Milo or Cavalli or Ray Samuels. You notice a trend of concession in engineering.
> 
> ...



Interesting! I learned this was 100% true with streaming servers. I had a custom server built that eclipsed the sound quality of quite a few commercial off-the-shelf (COTS) streamers by a pretty wide margin and still cost about half as much.

So if the same is true with amps, than it seems this rule applies to most things in audio period. Thanks for confirming...


----------



## jlbrach

Litlgi74 said:


> Speaker amps, speaker amps and more speaker amps.. how quickly the conversation has changed... SMH.


I have heard a few speaker amps...some were very good others blah IMHO...for me using my system In my bedroom a speaker makes no sense and the formula/powerman combo is wonderful and a lot more convenient....also I dont want the hassle involved with worrying that the speaker amp will damage my TC or susvara....I certainly do not suggest those who go for the speaker amp are wrong, far from it...different strokes as they say....it just aint for me and given that the formula s/powerman or bakoon 13r or many other HP amps made specifically for HP's do such a good job I am more than content at this time......now if rob watts ultimately does produce his digital amps I might reassess!


----------



## jlbrach

mammal said:


> I don't know where your threshold is, and since the only gear we share is 1266, I cannot give you direct comparative advice. If you have ever heard Sennheiser HE-1, it had very lush/luxurious, but detailed and layered mids, BUT very small soundstage. Riviera fixes 1266 mids to me, while leaving the soundstage as wide as Susvara (not as wide as stock 1266 anymore). So my preference would be Viva (or Bartok being 90%) for cold vocal less EDM, and Riviera for indie rock, synth pop, unamplified accoustinc music, stuff like that. So much so, that I returned Susvara, Utopia, Valkyria headphones, as well as Viva amplifier, just to get Riviera, which next to Bartok makes all genres work on 1266 for me. Direct comparison impressions between Viva and Riviera are here, if you are interested.


just get all the various options lol


----------



## Stereolab42

This might have been posted already but the Abyss guys did a video about headphones on speaker amps and I find their extensive arguments against doing so very convincing:



They also discuss the Viva Egoista and absolutely eviscerate it for blowing Abyss drivers; not having proper protection circuitry and having some issues with power-off. Ouch!


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Stereolab42 said:


> This might have been posted already but the Abyss guys did a video about headphones on speaker amps and I find their extensive arguments against doing so very convincing:
> 
> 
> 
> They also discuss the Viva Egoista and absolutely eviscerate it for blowing Abyss drivers; not having proper protection circuitry and having some issues with power-off. Ouch!



Thanks for this! Project shelved


----------



## littlej0e (Jul 20, 2021)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Thanks for this! Project shelved


But fear not for there is another path to enlightenment… *whispers* _CFA3…_


----------



## jlbrach

I tend to agree with them but obviously others wont and dont and god bless them if they want to take the risks involved and all the potential headaches


----------



## Litlgi74

Procedure for risk-free enjoyment when using a speaker amplifier to power your headphones... 

Set volume to zero before you turn the amp on...

Set volume to zero before you turn the amp off.

Don't unplug the headphones while the amp is on.

Enjoy.


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> I tend to agree with them but obviously others wont and dont and god bless them if they want to take the risks involved and all the potential headaches


And IF you don't look both ways before crossing the street, you could get hit by a car.

Lots of ifs in the video. Its always a crappy amp that blows a speaker. It's not the power. I'm sure that there are plenty of speaker amps that may not work with a headphone. However there are others that have been tried and true the have worked well with a 47 ohm headphone. I have my 1266 for 20 months and have used 4 different speaker amps with them for 19 of those months. 

You can take whatever you want from the video depending on your point of view. I take it from it what I have always said, and that's take caution when using a speaker amp. Others, like jibrach seems to take the a view similar to wear a mask when driving alone in a car just to make sure.


----------



## jlbrach (Jul 21, 2021)

Litlgi74 said:


> Procedure for risk-free enjoyment when using a speaker amplifier to power your headphones...
> 
> Set volume to zero before you turn the amp on...
> 
> ...


all well and good but to be honest i forget these things,could easily see myself forgetting or doing one and not the other....again, I get it for others into it but not for me.....as it is now I plug and unplug my HP's and never worry about any of the issues listed above and have never had an issue..again, I recognize it is worth it to many and I say enjoy


----------



## mammal

Stereolab42 said:


> They also discuss the Viva Egoista and absolutely eviscerate it for blowing Abyss drivers; not having proper protection circuitry and having some issues with power-off. Ouch!


Don't forget that you are hearing Abyss side of the story only. Reach out to Viva if you want to hear theirs.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jul 21, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> And IF you don't look both ways before crossing the street, you could get hit by a car.
> 
> Lots of ifs in the video. Its always a crappy amp that blows a speaker. It's not the power. I'm sure that there are plenty of speaker amps that may not work with a headphone. However there are others that have been tried and true the have worked well with a 47 ohm headphone. I have my 1266 for 20 months and have used 4 different speaker amps with them for 19 of those months.
> 
> You can take whatever you want from the video depending on your point of view. I take it from it what I have always said, and that's take caution when using a speaker amp. Others, like jibrach seems to take the a view similar to wear a mask when driving alone in a car just to make sure.


Masks...  Lol

Now back to our regularly scheduled arguments.


----------



## Frankie D

Stereolab42 said:


> This might have been posted already but the Abyss guys did a video about headphones on speaker amps and I find their extensive arguments against doing so very convincing:
> 
> 
> 
> They also discuss the Viva Egoista and absolutely eviscerate it for blowing Abyss drivers; not having proper protection circuitry and having some issues with power-off. Ouch!



The Viva’s are a bit manual, but really easy to handle.  All you do is switch the lower switch down and leave it there for 3 minutes.  Then switch it all the way up (do not wait at the middle of off position) and nothing will ever happen. I own their monoblock  Auroras for my 2 channel system.  I would like an automated turn on system as was suggested in the video, but now I could care less as I am so used to it. But I get their concern.

The Vivas also bring other advantages in that tube rolling is not needed and biasing is not needed.  Other tube amps have you manually bias the tubes from time to time.  This is eliminated with Viva.  What would have been interesting is if they went into a sound comparison of the Viva Egoista vs the Formula XI.


----------



## mammal

Frankie D said:


> The Viva’s are a bit manual, but really easy to handle. All you do is switch the lower switch down and leave it there for 3 minutes. Then switch it all the way up (do not wait at the middle of off position) and nothing will ever happen.


I second this, was worried about the switch, but was super easy to use it. I also spoke to Viva and they told me it really is only necessary when you get new tubes (15 min warmup recommended), transport the amp or have not used it for a couple of weeks. As for daily usage, they said they recommend it for preserving tube's life, and 1 minute is really enough. From some other users, I read that they don't even bother warming up at all and when I asked Viva to comment, they told me that it's not like something is going to explode, just better for the tubes to warm them up. Not going to lie, would have been nicer if they automated this away, but when I asked about it, they said there is a technical reason why the switch goes through the off position when flipping from Warm up to ON and that's why it is manual.



Frankie D said:


> The Vivas also bring other advantages in that tube rolling is not needed and biasing is not needed.


Exactly the reason why I wanted Viva in the first place, as I do not see myself tube rolling. Also, I liked that replacement tubes aren't as expensive as those of WA33 (when you get to the higher end of things).

My only issue was how HOT the amplifier got when running for a couple of hours. So much so that it was hot to touch the volume knob and I ended up using Bartok's volume control instead, using Viva kinda in a "power amplifier" mode (which it has direct support for, bypassing preamp altogether). I did not want to make a mistake on Bartok, so I set viva to 12o'clock on Bartok's 2V setting, so even though technically I was still using VIva's preamp, I controlled the volume on Bartok instead.


----------



## Tarttett (Jul 21, 2021)

littlej0e said:


> But fear not for there is another path to enlightenment… *whispers* _CFA3…_


I would possess an interest to know of your impression, for that sound performance, for that CFA3, in that case that you would purchase one of those units.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ken6217 said:


> And IF you don't look both ways before crossing the street, you could get hit by a car.





ken6217 said:


> Others, like jibrach seems to take the a view similar to wear a mask when driving alone in a car just to make sure.


It's all about assessing risks - and no,  life is not risk free, but I can damn well control my hobby. If you don't care about potential issues between amp and tc- fine. I do not want to bother with remembering in what clock position my amp volume is on and off and what can be unplugged or not - which is fine as well. So what you write above - no relation.


----------



## ken6217

Hoegaardener70 said:


> It's all about assessing risks - and no,  life is not risk free, but I can damn well control my hobby. If you don't care about potential issues between amp and tc- fine. I do not want to bother with remembering in what clock position my amp volume is on and off and what can be unplugged or not - which is fine as well. So what you write above - no relation.


I hate to break the news to you, it’s not an atomic bomb. You make it out to seem that it’s so intricate etc., and there is a small margin of error. It’s not. Honestly, if you’re using a good quality amp this whole thing is overstated. I’ve use multiple amps, and I know other people that have use multiple amps with no issues.

Based on my personal experience and people I know, if they held a convention of all people that blew out their headphones with a speaker amp, they can hold it in a telephone both.

i’m not trying to convince you or anybody else to use a speaker amp. I just don’t want someone to be dissuaded by people spreading misinformation without actually having any first-hand experience themselves.


----------



## Gadget67

Stereolab42 said:


> This might have been posted already but the Abyss guys did a video about headphones on speaker amps and I find their extensive arguments against doing so very convincing:
> 
> 
> 
> They also discuss the Viva Egoista and absolutely eviscerate it for blowing Abyss drivers; not having proper protection circuitry and having some issues with power-off. Ouch!



Very informative!  Thank you


----------



## Gadget67

jlbrach said:


> all well and good but to be honest i forget these things,could easily see myself forgetting or doing one and not the other....again, I get it for others into it but not for me.....as it is now I plug and unplug my HP's and never worry about any of the issues listed above and have never had an issue..again, I recognize it is worth it to many and I say enjoy


Really, you only have to screw up once; there are a number of nice headphone amps that are safe (safer?) to use.  That said, Chord TTOBY is popular and at least has a “track record” with competent users.  I’ll pass and stay with my TT2!


----------



## paradoxper

This recent speaker amp discussion reminds me of cable debate. LMAO.


----------



## Gadget67

paradoxper said:


> This recent speaker amp discussion reminds me of cable debate. LMAO.


There’s a cable debate???


----------



## Litlgi74

MAKE IT STOP!!!!


----------



## paradoxper

Litlgi74 said:


> MAKE IT STOP!!!!


“We love suffering.” 



“Therefore we love hanging out with Jerry.”


----------



## slefr

Stereolab42 said:


> This might have been posted already but the Abyss guys did a video about headphones on speaker amps and I find their extensive arguments against doing so very convincing:
> 
> 
> 
> They also discuss the Viva Egoista and absolutely eviscerate it for blowing Abyss drivers; not having proper protection circuitry and having some issues with power-off. Ouch!



I have used an Egoista for years to drive the 1266 as well as other more sensitive headphones without any issue.

AFIK, there has only been one case of 1266 drivers blown amplified by an Egoista 845 and I don’t remember it was proven to be due to the Viva. Sometimes crap happens…


----------



## slefr

Frankie D said:


> What would have been interesting is if they went into a sound comparison of the Viva Egoista vs the Formula XI.


From my experience the Egoista 845 works better with the 1266 than the Formula XI. It is also more expensive but you get what you pay for


----------



## littlej0e

Tarttett said:


> I would possess an interest to know of your impression, for that sound performance, for that CFA3, in that case that you would purchase one of those units.


I'll be sure to post my impressions in 3-6 weeks, or whenever it arrives. For reference, I'll be putting it head-to-head against my Woo Audio WA33 Elite Edition w/JPS wiring and fully upgraded tubes. The gauntlet has been thrown! Two amps enter, one amp leaves...


----------



## littlej0e (Jul 21, 2021)

As for the HP vs speaker amp debate, I'd just like to point out the RAAL HSA-1b and CFA3 are two prime examples of "hybrid-y" amps that actually solve many of the deficiencies with both sides of this argument. Besides...what exactly is being argued here?!? That most speaker amp's aren't quite as safe for headphones as hp amps? Well...they aren't. And most speaker amps are usually more powerful and might deliver better sound quality than hp amps? Well...they normally are and absolutely could. What's left to argue about?!?

"Audiophile" is nothing more than a super nerd code word for what ultimately amounts to personal preference. Eventually, you reach a point where there is no such thing as "better"...only "different", so I say leave people to their own devices and let them responsibly recommend whatever they want based on their own experiences. That's half the reason why soliciting opinions on head-fi can be so insightful and useful for people like me (I learned this fairly quickly when I first joined this forum and began soliciting advice from many of you). Many hands make light work and _many minds make great designs_. No need to stifle each other's solutions and opinions by arguing between the two. They are two very different hammers with their own strengths and weaknesses that people _can _use for the exact same nails. Unless of course, people are simply arguing because they are bored or for the entertainment value. In which case...*grabs popcorn*

Please continue with the debate!!!


----------



## jlbrach

You can take whatever you want from the video depending on your point of view. I take it from it what I have always said, and that's take caution when using a speaker amp. Others, like jibrach seems to take the a view similar to wear a mask when driving alone in a car just to make sure.

_to be honest, you have the wrong guy when it comes to masks lol...believe me....in terms of a speaker amp I prefaced everything I said over and over by saying the extra effort is worth it for others and I applaud them and am glad they enjoy it...it aint for me given the extra work and potential for hard to some pretty expensive equipment..in addition I keep my system in the bedroom making a speaker amp a difficult situation...all that said I do own and love my bakoon 13r which is I guess a speaker amp but one that doesnt create for me any extra work or concerns_


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> You can take whatever you want from the video depending on your point of view. I take it from it what I have always said, and that's take caution when using a speaker amp. Others, like jibrach seems to take the a view similar to wear a mask when driving alone in a car just to make sure.
> 
> _to be honest, you have the wrong guy when it comes to masks lol...believe me....in terms of a speaker amp I prefaced everything I said over and over by saying the extra effort is worth it for others and I applaud them and am glad they enjoy it...it aint for me given the extra work and potential for hard to some pretty expensive equipment..in addition I keep my system in the bedroom making a speaker amp a difficult situation...all that said I do own and love my bakoon 13r which is I guess a speaker amp but one that doesnt create for me any extra work or concerns_


Sorry, I had the mask thing on my mind. 😃


----------



## number1sixerfan

Again, I have no personal dog in this fight lol. I think there's obviously good headphone amps and speaker amps for headphone use. Only thing I'd offer is I'm far more interested in hearing about sound differences than fear mongering around speaker amps.. and that's mainly due to apparent data and facts. If there was truly a need for major concern, we'd have seen far more issues with drivers/headphones being blown--both historically and even in just the recent surge of more popular use. We simply have not seen it, or even any at all. (unless of course people are hiding it, but I doubt that's some significant variable/data point).

Agree with most of the above. It's a personal choice with slight tradeoffs just like everything else, but personally, I'm far more interested in sound comparisons.... as safety seems like a pretty minimal issue, if one at all if one exercises common sense and good practice. But ish still happens, so just do whatever floats your boat in that regard.


----------



## julien-hifi (Jul 22, 2021)

Hi,
Not trying speaker amps is a shame, it’s really nice to drive abyss or susara.
You can just use the hifiman he-adapter to do it very safely, that’s what i did before…


----------



## Articnoise

jlbrach said:


> I have heard a few speaker amps...some were very good others blah IMHO...for me using my system In my bedroom a speaker makes no sense and the formula/powerman combo is wonderful and a lot more convenient....also I dont want the hassle involved with worrying that the speaker amp will damage my TC or susvara....I certainly do not suggest those who go for the speaker amp are wrong, far from it...different strokes as they say....it just aint for me and given that the formula s/powerman or bakoon 13r or many other HP amps made specifically for HP's do such a good job I am more than content at this time......now if rob watts ultimately does produce his digital amps I might reassess!



You keep repeating this over and over again. Which speaker amps have you personally tested and which ones sounded blah?


----------



## ken6217

Articnoise said:


> You keep repeating this over and over again. Which speaker amps have you personally tested and which ones sounded blah?


You’re wasting your time. It’s always great to read opinions from people that have no first-hand experience. 

“Oh I heard a speaker amp from Kmart with my headphones. It was horrible. All speaker amps suck”.
Oh yea, they’re also super dangerous. I knew a guy that played Metallica too loud and blew his head off. It was a shame. His wife is scraping his brains off the wall as his five-year-old daughter had to witness it. So heart wrenching.


----------



## Litlgi74

He said Kmart...


----------



## JLoud

Jlbrach isn’t saying speaker amps are bad. Just not for him and his use case. There are different precautions to take with them and they should be pointed out. For me I only listen with headphones and don’t use a preamplifier, don’t wish to purchase one, and just basically skip over their discussion.
Too much negativity towards those who share a different opinion. Of course that seems to be the world in general today.


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Jul 22, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> This recent speaker amp discussion reminds me of cable debate. LMAO.


Cable debate is nothing till you read on recent Arya thread. There's a discussion about all ss amps should be sound the same  

About speaker amp, my first ever experience when tried to plug Beyer T1 on NAD 3020 back at 2012, which was surprisingly good for the price. Tried several other pairing after that, but ended with just simple headphone amp for my personal use.


----------



## paradoxper (Jul 22, 2021)

TheMiddleSky said:


> Cable debate is nothing till you read on recent Arya thread. There's a discussion about all ss amps should be sound the same
> 
> About speaker amp, my first ever experience when tried to plug Beyer T1 on NAD 3020 back at 2012, which was surprisingly good for the price. Tried several other pairing after that, but ended with just simple headphone amp for my personal use.


Well, this is Head-Fi. Nothing surprises me.

Yup. I have to go take a peek. 

Yup. Nevermind. One deaf German.

It's just annoying to join in 2021 blabber blabber sound science blabber blabber.

You guys do remember Tyll's Big Sound for starters, right.

Shrugs.

Deaf people be deaf.


----------



## jlbrach

JLoud said:


> Jlbrach isn’t saying speaker amps are bad. Just not for him and his use case. There are different precautions to take with them and they should be pointed out. For me I only listen with headphones and don’t use a preamplifier, don’t wish to purchase one, and just basically skip over their discussion.
> Too much negativity towards those who share a different opinion. Of course that seems to be the world in general today.


correct,and yes my experience with speaker amps would be k-mart amps...I mean after all my equipment experience here would suggest such a thing.......I dont know why this is such a sensitive thing for some people....I am suggesting that for some people a speaker amp is appropriate and for others it isnt....I applaud those who use them..for the record I recently sold my speaker system which included B&W speakers and a mcintosh 450 amp...I have owned several Mcintosh amps as well as mark levinson amps and others and yes I have have experienced speaker amps and yes for my purposes they made no sense....


----------



## Gadget67 (Jul 22, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> correct,and yes my experience with speaker amps would be k-mart amps...I mean after all my equipment experience here would suggest such a thing.......I dont know why this is such a sensitive thing for some people....I am suggesting that for some people a speaker amp is appropriate and for others it isnt....I applaud those who use them..for the record I recently sold my speaker system which included B&W speakers and a mcintosh 450 amp...I have owned several Mcintosh amps as well as mark levinson amps and others and yes I have have experienced speaker amps and yes for my purposes they made no sense....


I’m guessing a guy with over 4,600 post on a head fi forum would have a bit of experience so I don’t know why other posters can’t let go here.  I will also likely try a speaker amp at some point (I have a very nice Chord 2650) but my TT2 has plenty of power and swapping out banana plugs to just listen to my headphones from a speaker amp is just very inconvenient in my current set up.  If I acquire a speaker tap to XLR converter for cheap I’ll try it just because I can.  I’m sure I can handle it without destroying anything but, for me, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze since I’m jammed into a repurposed computer desk with not a lot of room to work.  Long story, don’t ask…here’s my standard picture:


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> correct,and yes my experience with speaker amps would be k-mart amps...I mean after all my equipment experience here would suggest such a thing.......I dont know why this is such a sensitive thing for some people....I am suggesting that for some people a speaker amp is appropriate and for others it isnt....I applaud those who use them..for the record I recently sold my speaker system which included B&W speakers and a mcintosh 450 amp...I have owned several Mcintosh amps as well as mark levinson amps and others and yes I have have experienced speaker amps and yes for my purposes they made no sense....


I wasn't referring to you or anyone specifically. Just the naysayers that offer their opinion based on nothing other than uninformed conjecture and/or parroting someone elses opinion. I’m sure if you read through the sarcasm you’ll get my message.


----------



## Articnoise

JLoud said:


> Jlbrach isn’t saying speaker amps are bad. Just not for him and his use case. There are different precautions to take with them and they should be pointed out. For me I only listen with headphones and don’t use a preamplifier, don’t wish to purchase one, and just basically skip over their discussion.
> Too much negativity towards those who share a different opinion. Of course that seems to be the world in general today.



I don't think asking which speaker amps he have used and which he thought sounded blah strange at all. Especially as he have said many times before that he have not tested any.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-560#post-15014218

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/page-356#post-16023248

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/page-357#post-16023508


----------



## Gadget67

Articnoise said:


> I don't think asking which speaker amps he have used and which he thought sounded blah strange at all. Especially as he have said many times before that he have not tested any.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-560#post-15014218
> 
> ...


…and exactly where does any of those three posts say that he has not tested any?  I didn’t see that in the three posts you linked to.


----------



## jlbrach

I have owned, used and tested several mcintosh speaker amps, 2 mark levinson amps....again...I do not suggest those using and enjoying speaker amps are wrong or shouldnt do so are wrong only that it doesnt work for me...I thought these forums were meant to exchange ideas and thoughts and LEARN..I know I have learned much from others but some people seem to want people to only agree with them


----------



## drew911d

The Moon Silver Dragon speaker tap adapter should arrive today.  Living dangerously with the AIC-10!  I really need the better IC's though.  Aluminata won't be here until Monday.  I hate my wallet...


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> I have owned, used and tested several mcintosh speaker amps, 2 mark levinson amps....again...I do not suggest those using and enjoying speaker amps are wrong or shouldnt do so are wrong only that it doesnt work for me...I thought these forums were meant to exchange ideas and thoughts and LEARN..I know I have learned much from others but some people seem to want people to only agree with them



i’m not sure if you’re referring to my comments or not, but I’ve been consistent and not saying speaker amps are better, but that no one should make a comment saying they shouldn’t be used without any first hand knowledge themselves.

In other words, don’t be a sheep.


----------



## jlbrach

bahhhh,couldnt resist


----------



## littlej0e (Jul 23, 2021)

Lmao. Gaggle of nerds still going at it, eh?!?…


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> bahhhh,couldnt resist


Hey you know what they say, if the wool fits.


----------



## Gadget67

ken6217 said:


> Hey you know what they say, if the wool fits.


----------



## ken6217

Looks like you had better stop hitting bottle.


----------



## DJJEZ

I'm getting towards 300 hours into burning in and enjoying my 1266TC and absolutely love this headphone


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> I'm getting towards 300 hours into burning in and enjoying my 1266TC and absolutely love this headphone


Nice!!!  I have my pads set the same as yours; it seems optimal for me.  How’s that formula S/Powerman working out for you?


----------



## DJJEZ (Jul 23, 2021)

Gadget67 said:


> Nice!!!  I have my pads set the same as yours; it seems optimal for me.  How’s that formula S/Powerman working out for you?


Initially I thought 1pm was perfect but 3pm seems to have the best bass.

I'm really happy with the formula S/P. It's honestly very hard to imagine better even though I know there is lol I'm looking forward to canjam this year to hear other amps


----------



## drew911d

@DJJEZ  that is an awesome photo!  Lovin the Rooms stand.  

I'm in bliss with my new to me (Thanks @F208Frank ) Riviera AIC-10.  Absolutely the best amp I've heard to date (also thanks to @simorag reviews to put it in my radar).  It's like when I first got my Abyss Phi, I just can't put it down.  I've heard a lot of amps, but I haven't heard some other top contenders yet, but So Happy with the Riviera!


----------



## DJJEZ

drew911d said:


> @DJJEZ  that is an awesome photo!  Lovin the Rooms stand.
> 
> I'm in bliss with my new to me (Thanks @F208Frank ) Riviera AIC-10.  Absolutely the best amp I've heard to date (also thanks to @simorag reviews to put it in my radar).  It's like when I first got my Abyss Phi, I just can't put it down.  I've heard a lot of amps, but I haven't heard some other top contenders yet, but So Happy with the Riviera!


I really wanna hear that amp. Sounds amazing  👏 what did you have before it?


----------



## drew911d

DJJEZ said:


> I really wanna hear that amp. Sounds amazing  👏 what did you have before it?


I've been using the TT2 rear XLR for the past year or so.  Been happy with that, but want to someday upgrade to DAVE, so I wanted to get an amp first.  Damn, what an improvement!


----------



## drew911d

drew911d said:


> I've been using the TT2 rear XLR for the past year or so.  Been happy with that, but want to someday upgrade to DAVE, so I wanted to get an amp first.  Damn, what an improvement!


And before that was a Milo with some of the upgrades.  Was a very good starter amp at the time.


----------



## mammal

drew911d said:


> The Moon Silver Dragon speaker tap adapter should arrive today. Living dangerously with the AIC-10! I really need the better IC's though. Aluminata won't be here until Monday. *I hate my wallet*...


Time to upgrade your dac 😅


----------



## Gadget67

drew911d said:


> The Moon Silver Dragon speaker tap adapter should arrive today.  Living dangerously with the AIC-10!  I really need the better IC's though.  Aluminata won't be here until Monday.  I hate my wallet...





mammal said:


> Time to upgrade your dac 😅


Maybe he needs to upgrade his wallet!  Seriously though, nice amp choice and I’d love to hear about using it with the headphones


----------



## mammal

After months of figuring out what sound I like, I have finally built a system that sounds to my ears better than HE-1, Susvara or Valkyria. Bartok for EDM, Riviera for everything else. I am sure there are better systems to be built (or more tailored to my preferences), but no way of getting there. I consider this my local maximum (one never stops, so can't call it an end game), and I think I will stay at this point for a while, until I get curious again


----------



## OceanRanger

I am mesmerized by the sixth track on this Valerie June album. "The Front Door" sounds wonderful on the 1266's. There is a low beat, low in the background. Detail in the percussive highs. And incredible depth in her voice.


----------



## DJJEZ

mammal said:


> _*I think I will stay at this point for a while, until I get curious again*_


Hopefully not for too long. We've all enjoyed your comparisons and would love to see more 😀


----------



## jlbrach

its only money after all!


----------



## Gadget67

jlbrach said:


> its only money after all!


This is what government calls a “cost overrun”…


----------



## jlbrach

are they giving out biden dollars for headphone purchases?


----------



## mammal

DJJEZ said:


> Hopefully not for too long. We've all enjoyed your comparisons and would love to see more 😀


I will be able to AB compare 009S on Paltauf amp, against RAAL's SR1a on HSA-1b, so more comparisons are coming, but this won't be on a home demo, instead at a dealer for a couple of hours. I will bring my 1266 to compare, and plug it to HSA-1b, which I will be less familiar with, but still, some "reference", so stay tuned!


----------



## mammal

drew911d said:


> I'm in bliss with my new to me (Thanks @F208Frank ) Riviera AIC-10. Absolutely the best amp I've heard to date (also thanks to @simorag reviews to put it in my radar). It's like when I first got my Abyss Phi, I just can't put it down. I've heard a lot of amps, but I haven't heard some other top contenders yet, but So Happy with the Riviera!


I am in a similar boat to you, since I got Riviera, I cannot stop listening to old crap I grew up on, which sounded on 1266 too "piercing". Riviera does some magic to the mids/treble, smoothening/warming them up, and now it is pleasure to listen to some old songs when I was a kid, which back then was Linkin Park, Avril Lavigne, stuff like that. First time 1266 sounds good with these.


----------



## simorag

mammal said:


> After months of figuring out what sound I like, I have finally built a system that sounds to my ears better than HE-1, Susvara or Valkyria. Bartok for EDM, Riviera for everything else. I am sure there are better systems to be built (or more tailored to my preferences), but no way of getting there. I consider this my local maximum (one never stops, so can't call it an end game), and I think I will stay at this point for a while, until I get curious again



Congratulations @mammal, I went through a similar journey and landed on the same spot. If you're like me, be prepared to a long, long honeymoon 

As for your 'local maximum', some tube rolling, hp cable upgrade and experimentation with the AIC-10 speaker out will push the envelope in a very audible way, so don't worry, there's still a lot of fun ahead ... but no need to rush into that, enjoy the view from where you are


----------



## jlbrach

mammal said:


> I will be able to AB compare 009S on Paltauf amp, against RAAL's SR1a on HSA-1b, so more comparisons are coming, but this won't be on a home demo, instead at a dealer for a couple of hours. I will bring my 1266 to compare, and plug it to HSA-1b, which I will be less familiar with, but still, some "reference", so stay tuned!


as one who owns both I dont think listening to the 1266 side by side with the sr1a for a short time will be a good comparison...the 1266 will wow you and the sr1a will initially sound lean.....one needs to spend long periods of time with the sr1a in order to truly appreciate how fantastic it is...the presentation is so different that it takes time for your brain to adjust especially compared to 1266...


----------



## tunes (Aug 10, 2021)

littlej0e said:


> Now we’re talking… I was looking at getting the formula s  + powerman combo to use as my daily driver for the TCs, but now I’m starting to think a speaker amp might actually give me better sound quality. I’m after the very best SQ I can get in the 7-10k msrp price range. The Moon 600i seems to be recommended pretty often (and by a friend of mine). Can you, or anyone else, speak to the differences in SQ between the formula s + powerman compared to the [insert your fav here] speaker amp?


Where does the Bakoon amp fit in here?


----------



## tunes

littlej0e said:


> As for the HP vs speaker amp debate, I'd just like to point out the RAAL HSA-1b and CFA3 are two prime examples of "hybrid-y" amps that actually solve many of the deficiencies with both sides of this argument. Besides...what exactly is being argued here?!? That most speaker amp's aren't quite as safe for headphones as hp amps? Well...they aren't. And most speaker amps are usually more powerful and might deliver better sound quality than hp amps? Well...they normally are and absolutely could. What's left to argue about?!?
> 
> "Audiophile" is nothing more than a super nerd code word for what ultimately amounts to personal preference. Eventually, you reach a point where there is no such thing as "better"...only "different", so I say leave people to their own devices and let them responsibly recommend whatever they want based on their own experiences. That's half the reason why soliciting opinions on head-fi can be so insightful and useful for people like me (I learned this fairly quickly when I first joined this forum and began soliciting advice from many of you). Many hands make light work and _many minds make great designs_. No need to stifle each other's solutions and opinions by arguing between the two. They are two very different hammers with their own strengths and weaknesses that people _can _use for the exact same nails. Unless of course, people are simply arguing because they are bored or for the entertainment value. In which case...*grabs popcorn*
> 
> Please continue with the debate!!!


Isn’t the Bakoon both a headphone and speaker amp?  The headphone out jack (not speaker taps on back) can be configured for high or low gain.   On high gain mode is there a risk of blowing up a driver????


----------



## paradoxper (Jul 27, 2021)

tunes said:


> Isn’t the Bakoon both a headphone and speaker amp?  The headphone out jack (not speaker taps on back) can be configured for high or low gain.   On high gain mode is there a risk of blowing up a driver????


Yes and then no. And the volume attenuation on the AMP-13R is very good.


----------



## jlbrach

no risk on high gain I use it daily


----------



## paradoxper

Also just compared LCD-R to TC, the TC is still king. Impressively so up-to conventional over-ears.


----------



## littlej0e

paradoxper said:


> Also just compared LCD-R to TC, the TC is still king. Impressively so up-to conventional over-ears.


Appreciate the feedback. How about the LCD-R compared to the SR1a?


----------



## Sajid Amit

mammal said:


> I will be able to AB compare 009S on Paltauf amp, against RAAL's SR1a on HSA-1b, so more comparisons are coming, but this won't be on a home demo, instead at a dealer for a couple of hours. I will bring my 1266 to compare, and plug it to HSA-1b, which I will be less familiar with, but still, some "reference", so stay tuned!


Would be very interested in reading this comparison


----------



## Sajid Amit

Guys, what is an iem you've heard and liked, with a sound sig closest to TC? 

Will use it for metal and rock. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## jlbrach

I use the lcd-i4 and the shure 1200...both great for travel....the 1200 when I need isolation


----------



## paradoxper

littlej0e said:


> Appreciate the feedback. How about the LCD-R compared to the SR1a?


Too different. The dynamic presence and large scale of the TC is more comparable to the encompassing sound of SR1a.

LCD-R is similar in its high-speed, tonally uncolored and correct response and 'ribbon' driver. But that is it.


----------



## OceanRanger

I've spent a chunk of time tonight watching and listening to David Byrne's American Utopia on Broadway. Listening with the TCs the album has several great songs for imaging, sound stage and dynamics. "Glass, Concrete & Stone" as well as "I Zimbra". Recently I'm appreciating live recordings more and more.


----------



## lucasratmundo

Sajid Amit said:


> Guys, what is an iem you've heard and liked, with a sound sig closest to TC?
> 
> Will use it for metal and rock.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


The EE Odin has great bass and detail. Tonality is a bit different. Might be worth checking it out.


----------



## MatW

lucasratmundo said:


> The EE Odin has great bass and detail. Tonality is a bit different. Might be worth checking it out.


Agreed on the great bass but I would say that the tonality is very different. Mids are forward vs somewhat recessed in the TC. I always find it difficult to compare IEMs to headphones, but I would say the Thummim, or maybe the Trio.


----------



## lucasratmundo

MatW said:


> Agreed on the great bass but I would say that the tonality is very different. Mids are forward vs somewhat recessed in the TC. I always find it difficult to compare IEMs to headphones, but I would say the Thummim, or maybe the Trio.


You're right. The MEST might be closer in terms of tonality and also has good bass and detail. I agree that it's really hard to compare IEMs and headphones.


----------



## Frankie D

Sajid Amit said:


> Guys, what is an iem you've heard and liked, with a sound sig closest to TC?
> 
> Will use it for metal and rock.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I have been using IEM’s for years.  The absolute best in my opinion is the Oriolus Traillii. This statement includes JH, 64 Audio, VE, Noble, etc.  it is also very expensive at $6600 list ( but visit Andrew at MusicTeck for a discounted price ).  Now, I do not own a 1266 for a direct comparison for you, but I highly recommend you audition it if this is what you want.  MusicTeck will allow an audition, though I see you are not in the US.  Maybe you can work something out.   

It also plays well with any source.  You do not need a kilobuck IEM source to get the most out of it.  An iPhone, Audioquest Dragonfly and especially the L&P W2 are all excellent with it.  Audition one if you can ( no other cables are needed by the way as it comes with a top cable).  Tks.


----------



## paradoxper

Frankie D said:


> I have been using IEM’s for years.  The absolute best in my opinion is the Oriolus Traillii. This statement includes JH, 64 Audio, VE, Noble, etc.  it is also very expensive at $6600 list ( but visit Andrew at MusicTeck for a discounted price ).  Now, I do not own a 1266 for a direct comparison for you, but I highly recommend you audition it if this is what you want.  MusicTeck will allow an audition, though I see you are not in the US.  Maybe you can work something out.
> 
> It also plays well with any source.  You do not need a kilobuck IEM source to get the most out of it.  An iPhone, Audioquest Dragonfly and especially the L&P W2 are all excellent with it.  Audition one if you can ( no other cables are needed by the way as it comes with a top cable).  Tks.


LMAO. Very insightful considering you've never heard the TC. Jesus Christ.


----------



## sahmen (Jul 28, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> LMAO. Very insightful considering you've never heard the TC. Jesus Christ.


Hey, why are you saying he has never heard Jesus Christ?  Well, i haven't either, so he is not alone, and incidentally, neither have I seen a TC _*en personne*_, let alone hear one! of course, if you're keen on solving this second problem, you can lend me yours, and that gesture would be highly appreciated. Just saying!   

Okay, the "lend me yours" part was a joke. No wait! The other parts too are... Well I hope you enjoy at least one of them.


----------



## ken6217 (Jul 28, 2021)

Jesus only listened with wireless headphones. He couldnt get a cable long enough to reach to top of the cross.

I think I nailed that one.


----------



## Litlgi74

ken6217 said:


> Jesus only listened with wireless headphones. He couldnt get a cable long enough to reach to top of the cross.
> 
> I think I nailed that one.


Booo


----------



## eee1111

paradoxper said:


> LMAO. Very insightful considering you've never heard the TC. Jesus Christ.


Just reading through the boards You’re very nasty towards people pretty often. Even if there is something worth saying or whatever you should be nice about it.


----------



## Gadget67

Frankie D said:


> I have been using IEM’s for years.  The absolute best in my opinion is the Oriolus Traillii. This statement includes JH, 64 Audio, VE, Noble, etc.  it is also very expensive at $6600 list ( but visit Andrew at MusicTeck for a discounted price ).  Now, I do not own a 1266 for a direct comparison for you, but I highly recommend you audition it if this is what you want.  MusicTeck will allow an audition, though I see you are not in the US.  Maybe you can work something out.
> 
> It also plays well with any source.  You do not need a kilobuck IEM source to get the most out of it.  An iPhone, Audioquest Dragonfly and especially the L&P W2 are all excellent with it.  Audition one if you can ( no other cables are needed by the way as it comes with a top cable).  Tks.





paradoxper said:


> LMAO. Very insightful considering you've never heard the TC. Jesus Christ.


@Frankie D says he doesn’t own one; it doesn’t mean he’s never heard the TC.  Just sayin…


----------



## paradoxper

Gadget67 said:


> @Frankie D says he doesn’t own one; it doesn’t mean he’s never heard the TC.  Just sayin…


It was a cheeky jab. Let's not split all the hairs, ok. 

Can we debate cables instead.


----------



## Gadget67

eee1111 said:


> Just reading through the boards You’re very nasty towards people pretty often. Even if there is something worth saying or whatever you should be nice about it.





paradoxper said:


> It was a cheeky jab. Let's not split all the hairs, ok.
> 
> Can we debate cables instead.


Look, I’m not trying to be difficult here, but sometimes Cheeky comments aren’t appreciated.  I’m guilty of it myself and have been called out for it.  So, yes, let’s debate cables instead; how controversial can that be, right?


----------



## paradoxper

Gadget67 said:


> Look, I’m not trying to be difficult here, but sometimes Cheeky comments aren’t appreciated.  I’m guilty of it myself and have been called out for it.  So, yes, let’s debate cables instead; how controversial can that be, right?


Be as difficult as you please. I've been cheeky on this platform since 2012, grow a thicker skin or ignore me. I appreciate your indifference.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jul 28, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> Be as difficult as you please. I've been cheeky on this platform since 2012, grow a thicker skin or ignore me. I appreciate your indifference.


@Gadget67  is junior to you... he/she joined head-fi 18 days after you.. lol


----------



## cangle

Sajid Amit said:


> Guys, what is an iem you've heard and liked, with a sound sig closest to TC?
> 
> Will use it for metal and rock.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


IEMs I've used and enjoyed are the Campfire Audio Andromeda and Atlas. The Atlas is too V-shaped for my liking so I prefer the Andromeda. I haven't explored any other nicer IEMs but to my ears the Andromedas have a fairly neutral tuning with a nice sense of space and imaging for an IEM. Bass is nowhere near the Atlas or the 1266 but it sounds accurate to me and is there when you need it.

The other IEM I hear people mention a lot is the 64 Audio U12T. Seems to be a very popular option under 2k.


----------



## Sajid Amit

cangle said:


> IEMs I've used and enjoyed are the Campfire Audio Andromeda and Atlas. The Atlas is too V-shaped for my liking so I prefer the Andromeda. I haven't explored any other nicer IEMs but to my ears the Andromedas have a fairly neutral tuning with a nice sense of space and imaging for an IEM. Bass is nowhere near the Atlas or the 1266 but it sounds accurate to me and is there when you need it.
> 
> The other IEM I hear people mention a lot is the 64 Audio U12T. Seems to be a very popular option under 2k.


Hey man. I have owned and sold the Andro and U12t.

The U12t is nice but I didn’t like the bass. Not bad for a BA bass, but its still BA bass. I also found the presentation a tad unengaging. YMMV.


----------



## dukeskd

Sajid Amit said:


> Hey man. I have owned and sold the Andro and U12t.
> 
> The U12t is nice but I didn’t like the bass. Not bad for a BA bass, but its still BA bass. I also found the presentation a tad unengaging. YMMV.


Sajid - I am a fan of the Sony BA bass. I feel like they are the bassiest of the IEMs I have auditioned and part of the Sony 20th century sound profile DNA.


----------



## Sajid Amit

dukeskd said:


> Sajid - I am a fan of the Sony BA bass. I feel like they are the bassiest of the IEMs I have auditioned and part of the Sony 20th century sound profile DNA.


Yeah, the Sony M9 and M7 BA don’t sound like BAs.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Sajid Amit said:


> Guys, what is an iem you've heard and liked, with a sound sig closest to TC?
> 
> Will use it for metal and rock.
> 
> Thanks in advance.



something with a bit v shape in character, but still offer enough resolution, my vote go to Tia Trio and Sony IER Z1r. 

Or, get vision ears elrkonig if possible, one of the hardest slam (with highly resolving quality) in IEM world, not as v-shape as Trio or Z1R though.


----------



## Gadget67

TheMiddleSky said:


> something with a bit v shape in character, but still offer enough resolution, my vote go to Tia Trio and Sony IER Z1r.
> 
> Or, get vision ears elrkonig if possible, one of the hardest slam (with highly resolving quality) in IEM world, not as v-shape as Trio or Z1R though.


I don’t have lots of IEM experience, but I do own the Sony IER-Z1R.  Might be worth a listen.


----------



## Frankie D

paradoxper said:


> LMAO. Very insightful considering you've never heard the TC. Jesus Christ.


What is the issue?  If you fully read my post you will see I provided my views of an IEM that I feel is the best.  As no IEM will be like a HP, my point is to check this one out.  Get over yourself.


----------



## paradoxper

Frankie D said:


> What is the issue?  If you fully read my post you will see I provided my views of an IEM that I feel is the best.  As no IEM will be like a HP, my point is to check this one out.  Get over yourself.


While the Traillii is a nice sounding IEM, it is more akin to the Susvara and what you feel is best is likely irrelevant to what sounds most like TC. 

Touchy touchy.


----------



## Gadget67

Frankie D said:


> What is the issue?  If you fully read my post you will see I provided my views of an IEM that I feel is the best.  As no IEM will be like a HP, my point is to check this one out.  Get over yourself.


He’s tweaking you…ignore it; he’s harmless…


----------



## mammal

It's funny how some get upset about @paradoxper's posts, not noticing he is actually a bot, one that was trained on a lot of Shakespeare literature using Markov chain. Once you realise the author lost password from his head-fi account and now this bot is roaming the inter webs freely, you start seeing his posts differently


----------



## jlbrach

that makes sense, now I get it regarding  @paradoxper


----------



## paradoxper

mammal said:


> It's funny how some get upset about @paradoxper's posts, not noticing he is actually a bot, one that was trained on a lot of Shakespeare literature using Markov chain. Once you realise the author lost password from his head-fi account and now this bot is roaming the inter webs freely, you start seeing his posts differently


“When human is full of emotions, robots are full of success”


----------



## sahmen

paradoxper said:


> “When human is full of emotions, robots are full of success”


And what is success reaped at the expense of human emotions?


----------



## paradoxper

sahmen said:


> And what is success reaped at the expense of human emotions?


What is this a Lifetime movie.


----------



## sahmen (Jul 28, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> What is this a Lifetime movie.


Nope!  A tough guy quiz, sounds more like it. 







This is just one prototype of the tough-skinned specimen


----------



## Frankie D

Gadget67 said:


> He’s tweaking you…ignore it; he’s harmless…


Got it.  He is useless as well.


----------



## paradoxper

Frankie D said:


> Got it.  He is useless as well.


Frankie, baby, no need to be harsh.


----------



## Gadget67

Frankie D said:


> Got it.  He is useless as well.





paradoxper said:


> Frankie, baby, no need to be harsh.


Well, there is always the ”Ignore” button…


----------



## paradoxper

Gadget67 said:


> Well, there is always the ”Ignore” button…


Well, that's no fun.


----------



## ken6217

Snowflakes.


----------



## Gadget67

paradoxper said:


> Well, that's no fun.


Don’t worry, I’m not ignoring you!  I actually enjoy your posts


----------



## vkenz

ken6217 said:


> Jesus only listened with wireless headphones. He couldnt get a cable long enough to reach to top of the cross.
> 
> I think I nailed that one.


Blasphemy!!!!!


----------



## ken6217

vkenz said:


> Blasphemy!!!!!


There’s more where that came from.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Jul 29, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> There’s more where that came from.


Before the lightning cometh for you.... I'd make sure all your equipment is plugged into a surge protector.


----------



## ken6217

Litlgi74 said:


> Before the cometh for you.... I'd make sure all your equipment is plugged into a surge protector.


When the time comes for when cometh for me, I'll be wearing shorts and short sleeves because its going to be very warm. At least I'll be with all of my friends.


----------



## larryzotter

I've currently using the IER-Z1Rs, and they're my absolute favourite IEMs to listen to. I need my endgame headphones, and I've heard that the 1266s would be a good fit given my preference for the IER-Z1Rs. I am a basshead but I do love soundstage as well (my reason for loving the IER-Z1Rs). I am also inclined towards a warm (Sony) sort of sound.

I am considering the OG 1266s, as I heard that they have a larger quantity of bass/subbass, and they can be bought 2nd hand for cheaper.

For those who have experience with the earphones/headphones mentioned:
How do the OGs compare to the TCs (1266s)?
How does the IER-Z1R sound compare to the 1266s?

Thanks everyone! Really appreciate it.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

OG deliver more attack on bass, but unfortunately, also in treble area, which become more edgy and fatiguing to my ears. Also, both Phi CC and TC has better midrange presence, and I love midrange.


----------



## Homrsimson

Anybody wanna sell me their 8+ foot superconductor? Pretty please?


----------



## Litlgi74

Homrsimson said:


> Anybody wanna sell me their 8+ foot superconductor? Pretty please?


Still?


----------



## Homrsimson

Litlgi74 said:


> Still?


i know, tragedy. Not for want of trying, I’ve had 3 deals fall through :/.


----------



## OceanRanger (Jul 31, 2021)

Ordered and received 100 Buna #213 O-Rings. $8.94. I'm not sure what I'll do with the other 98, but I can say that after replacement it's almost like a new pair of headphones. I should have don't this a few months ago. This might have been the biggest return on investment that I've experienced in this hobby.


----------



## saudio7

Just quick question regarding possible alternative cable for 1266 something in between stock and SC?


----------



## Drewligarchy

Hi All -

I am thinking of putting a speaker system together, in such a way that I can use my Dave/MScaler for both, and that I can use the amp for my Abyss (and Susvara) if I'd like to.

I was thinking of using my Woo Wa33 as a preamp, even if I get an integrated like the Moon 600i, that way I'll have some tubes in the mix. I figure I could still use the volume control on the Dave since that has a remote. If I don't like it, I could just keep it as a standalone headphone amp, but I don't really want to sell the Woo unless I have to.

In terms of speakers, I have KEF LS50W and was looking up the KEF line because I like the mids on them so much. I am much less knowledgeable about speakers, though I've had some nice Meridian's in the past which I also really enjoyed. I've also demoed some Harbeth speakers I really liked as well - but I don't remember the model.

Anyhow, Is it possible to create a setup where you can have a headphone adapter hooked up to the amp, while still hooked up to the speakers? I'm assuming not unless you have an amp that provides multiple outputs and ways to switch - because obviously you are not going to want to play the speakers and headphones at the same time. How do people do this?

I'm not sure really where to get started. Recently moved from an apartment to a house, so I've been thinking about this for quite sometime - but what has always stopped me is not knowing where to start as there are so many more speakers than headphones. My dealer is a KEF dealer, so I could certainly demo - or I could go into NYC and there are plenty of hifi-dealers I've worked with in the past that I could demo.

Would appreciate any advice from anyone who has been down this road


----------



## DJJEZ (Jul 31, 2021)

Drewligarchy said:


> Hi All -
> 
> I am thinking of putting a speaker system together, in such a way that I can use my Dave/MScaler for both, and that I can use the amp for my Abyss (and Susvara) if I'd like to.
> 
> ...


i have a dual setup as well, 2 channel and a seperate headphone setup but share the DAVE/M-scaler between them.

why wouldnt you just use the WA33 for headphones and the moon 600i for speakers? the rear XLR of the DAVE could go to the WA33 and the RCA to the Moon 600i unless of course you want to use the moon 600i with your headphones as well lol


----------



## Drewligarchy

DJJEZ said:


> i have a dual setup as well, 2 channel and a seperate headphone setup but share the DAVE/M-scaler between them.
> 
> why wouldnt you just use the WA33 for headphones and the moon 600i for speakers?



I would like to have a solid state option, and if I’m getting speakers, why not use that?


----------



## ken6217

If you’re interested in a 600i V2, let me know. I have onr new in unopened box. Thr one I had had a couple LED’s out on the display, and Simaudio sent me a new one that I received yesterday.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> If you’re interested in a 600i V2, let me know. I have onr new in unopened box. Thr one I had had a couple LED’s out on the display, and Simaudio sent me a new one that I received yesterday.


WHAT in the world is replacing the mighty 600i !!!! You crayyy


----------



## DJJEZ

Drewligarchy said:


> I would like to have a solid state option, and if I’m getting speakers, why not use that?


the best solution is to find a 2 channel integrated amp that can run 2 pairs of speakers on the rear. that way you can have your speaker and headphones always connected to each without ever having to mess about switching stuff. my Arcam A49 can do this but im unsure how common this on most 2 channel amps. maybe someone else on here knows of some type of adapter but off the top of my head i havent seen any before.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> WHAT in the world is replacing the mighty 600i !!!! You crayyy


Honestly, I didn’t plan on it but I got paid a visit today from thr Department of Health advising me that they got wind of the fact that I was using a speaker amp with headphones.  They told me it a hazard and tbat I needed to cease and desist.  Oh yea, they also told me to mask up when I’m alone.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Honestly, I didn’t plan on it but I got paid a visit today from thr Department of Health advising me that they got wind of the fact that I was using a speaker amp with headphones.  They told me it a hazard and tbat I needed to cease and desist.  Oh yea, they also told me to mask up when I’m alone.


@jlbrach has friends in high places for his ANTI-speakerampforheadphone campaign.


----------



## jlbrach

yes I do ,that said I have no such program...I have repeatedly said go for it if you like and and enjoy...only that it aint for me and my situation


----------



## ken6217 (Jul 31, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> @jlbrach has friends in high places for his ANTI-speakerampforheadphone campaign.


I can definitely vouch for the fact that he does not wear a mask in the car. I know because I saw him when he drove past my house throwing eggs at it.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> I can definitely vouch for the fact that he does not wear a mask in the car. I know ibecauae I saw him when he drove past my house throwing eggs at it.


It would only be a spiritual win. but I would testify in Wackner's court to jlbrachs defamation.


----------



## jlbrach (Jul 31, 2021)

no mask in the car that is a fact!!!!No eggs either lol


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> no mask in the car that is a fact!!!!*No eggs either lol*


LMAO. That was definitely a slip. 

Let the record show, he did, in fact, edit.


----------



## Drewligarchy

DJJEZ said:


> the best solution is to find a 2 channel integrated amp that can run 2 pairs of speakers on the rear. that way you can have your speaker and headphones always connected to each without ever having to mess about switching stuff. my Arcam A49 can do this but im unsure how common this on most 2 channel amps. maybe someone else on here knows of some type of adapter but off the top of my head i havent seen any before.



Thanks. I'll take a look as it's what I figured. Love the OST that's your avatar.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Aug 1, 2021)

So I'm demoing the Superconductor cable on my Abyss from The Cable Company. This is the second time. I previously demoed it when I had a Formula S and Powerman that has since been sold, and it turned it into a completely tonally different headphone. I ultimately didn't get it because while it was great for vocals and mids, it was a bit slow and plodding for scores for instance

This time, on my Woo Wa33, not as much. Change is much more subtle. Good news - no slow and plodding attributes. I'm thinking because the Woo, IMHO, provides more fleshed out mids compare to the formula s - there isn't that much more for the cable to do. In other words, it's not cumulative. I have about 6 hours of listening on it so far - so I've put in some time. Of course, when I go back to stock - I may not like it.

Anyone else have this experience with the Superconductor cable on different amps? In other words - certain amps it makes a dramatic difference - and certain amps it doesn't? On the formula s, using the superconductor cable, it was like there were different drivers in the headphones.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Aug 1, 2021)

cangle said:


> IEMs I've used and enjoyed are the Campfire Audio Andromeda and Atlas. The Atlas is too V-shaped for my liking so I prefer the Andromeda. I haven't explored any other nicer IEMs but to my ears the Andromedas have a fairly neutral tuning with a nice sense of space and imaging for an IEM. Bass is nowhere near the Atlas or the 1266 but it sounds accurate to me and is there when you need it.
> 
> The other IEM I hear people mention a lot is the 64 Audio U12T. Seems to be a very popular option under 2k.



I initially bought the old A12. Granted I imagine it's substantially different from the A/U12T (It was right before the release), and I hated it. The treble wasn't recessed it just wasn't there. While I can't speak for the U12T, I ended up working out a deal with 64 Audio to return that and get an A18T instead. I love it. It's the best IEM that I ever had. Tonally, it's not bright either - but the treble presence is much better. It's like an Audeze LCD series in an IEM - if you like that sort of thing. When I think of the TC, I think about staging and imaging - so it's really hard to get that. And, while my LCD 4 and Abyss are very different headphones both in presentation and tonally, they are both planars so share certain characteristics. I'd get the A18t - I don't think you will be sorry. I'd bet the U12t is significantly darker than the Abyss.


----------



## DJJEZ (Aug 1, 2021)

Drewligarchy said:


> This time, on my Woo Wa33, not as much. Change is much more subtle. Good news - no slow and plodding attributes. I'm thinking because the Woo, IMHO, provides more fleshed out mids compare to the formula s - there isn't that much more for the cable to do. In other words, it's not cumulative_*. I have about 6 hours of listening on it so far - so I've put in some time. Of course, when I go back to stock - I may not like it.*_
> 
> Anyone else have this experience with the Superconductor cable on different amps? In other words - certain amps it makes a dramatic difference - and certain amps it doesn't? On the formula s, using the superconductor cable, it was like there were different drivers in the headphones.


It takes 70+ hours to fully break in according to Joe from Abyss. I have one incoming so excited to see what it adds. Interesting to read your comments of how it differs on different amps


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> It takes 70+ hours to fully break in according to Joe from Abyss. I have one incoming so excited to see what it adds. Interesting to read your comments of how it differs on different amps


Glad to see you are getting the Superconductor; I am enjoying mine (purchased from @qboogie).  I have to admit that I question the whole concept of breaking in a headphone cable.  I believe most of the difference can be attributed to my brain adjusting to the sound but others believe there is some science involved here.  Mine is now permanently attached to the 1266 but I am tempted to revert to the stock cable now that my brain has “adjusted” to the Superconductor to see if there is a difference I can perceive.


----------



## DJJEZ

Gadget67 said:


> Mine is now permanently attached to the 1266 but_* I am tempted to revert to the stock cable now that my brain has “adjusted” to the Superconductor to see if there is a difference I can perceive.*_


I definetley plan to do the same


----------



## stemiki

When you try the SC cable you won't go back!


----------



## Litlgi74

stemiki said:


> When you try the SC cable you won't go back!


Not necessarily true... Sold mine . Went back to stock.


----------



## saudio7

What is the difference between stock and SC?


----------



## Litlgi74

saudio7 said:


> What is the difference between stock and SC?


Depends on who you ask.


----------



## 432789 (Aug 1, 2021)

I wonder why top recording studios don't use super conductor cables, IMAGINE every song with that extra chocolatey mids. from all those Swiss chocolate factories designed in the electrons of this super conductor


----------



## Litlgi74

thebrunx said:


> I wonder why top recording studios don't use super conductor cables, Imagine every song with that extra chocolatey mids. from all those Swiss chocolate factories designed in the electrons of this super conductor


Maybe that should tell us something.


----------



## OceanRanger

thebrunx said:


> I wonder why top recording studios don't use super conductor cables, Imagine every song with that extra chocolatey mids. from all those Swiss chocolate factories designed in the electrons of this super conductor


Sometimes I enjoy a quality piece of chocolate. Sometimes I enjoy a salad lightly dressed in a bright vinaigrette. I appreciate both. It just depends upon my mood and what I happen to be enjoying with those items. 

I don't know if I can push the food metaphor any further....


----------



## vonBaron

Im happy with my Lazuli Ultra and i don't want spend that much $$ for SC.


----------



## OceanRanger

vonBaron said:


> Im happy with my Lazuli Ultra and i don't want spend that much $$ for SC.


I've heard great things about the Lazuli Ultra, but haven't ever heard one. In the US, a 2m SC is $2,349 and a 2m Lazuli Ultra is $1,999.


----------



## paradoxper

thebrunx said:


> I wonder why top recording studios don't use super conductor cables, Imagine every song with that extra chocolatey mids. from all those Swiss chocolate factories designed in the electrons of this super conductor


They use niobium titanium, nerd.


----------



## vonBaron

@OceanRanger I have used Lazuli Ultra. In EU SC cost way more


----------



## Gadget67

saudio7 said:


> What is the difference between stock and SC?


About $2,000…..


----------



## DJJEZ

vonBaron said:


> Im happy with my Lazuli Ultra and i don't want spend that much $$ for SC.


This is on my wants list as well. I plan to compare multiple high end cables


----------



## DJJEZ

Litlgi74 said:


> Not necessarily true... Sold mine . Went back to stock.


What are  your thoughts on the differences?


----------



## Litlgi74 (Aug 1, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> What are  your thoughts on the differences?


I used the money to buy something that I could actually hear a noticeable difference... SR1a.


----------



## DJJEZ (Aug 1, 2021)

Litlgi74 said:


> I used the money to buy something that I could actually hear a noticeable difference... SR1a.


fair enough lmao


----------



## Drewligarchy

DJJEZ said:


> It takes 70+ hours to fully break in according to Joe from Abyss. I have one incoming so excited to see what it adds. Interesting to read your comments of how it differs on different amps


The thing is, this is through the cable company’s borrow program (you pay them 5% to borrow a piece of gear, and then you get your money back if you buy that or anything else)

all the stuff in their loaner program is used, though I have no way of knowing the types of hours on it.

Anyhow, when I first heard the superconductor cable (on the Formula X) it was such a stark difference. Now it’s not, but I think the Wa33 adds certain elements the Superconductor did. After I listen to it for a couple days I’ll go back to the stock and then I’ll know if it’s actually worth it or not.


----------



## DJJEZ (Aug 1, 2021)

Drewligarchy said:


> _*Anyhow, when I first heard the superconductor cable (on the Formula X) it was such a stark difference.*_ Now it’s not, but I think the Wa33 adds certain elements the Superconductor did. After I listen to it for a couple days I’ll go back to the stock and then I’ll know if it’s actually worth it or not.


I have the formula S/powerman so good to know 

Sounds like The midrange is probaly already so impressive on the WA33 there isn't any more to add?


----------



## Lucky87

Just received my 1266 TC's on Wednesday and finally got a good amount of hours on them and the main things that hit me in the face when I first listened was the resolution and clarity without any harshness and of course the solid bass that will make your fillings in your teeth rattle loose..  I would think with that amount of resolution and clarity only certain types of genres would be able to listen nope the TC's seem to thrive on anything you throw at them. Very impressed and now I understand why most people have the Susvara/1266 TC combo they compliment each other very nicely..  I was also expecting them to be big & heavy but thankfully no when you get them dialed in very comfortable..


----------



## stemiki

Litlgi74 said:


> Not necessarily true... Sold mine . Went back to stock.


Of course, each configuration has a different answer. 
I have tried various Silver, Copper or Hybrid cables before SC. None of these came close. In second place I definitely put the Abyss stock cable, already excellent but not as SC. It's not just for a more full-bodied mid-range speech. I also find in SC more definition and less brightness.


----------



## Drewligarchy

DJJEZ said:


> I have the formula S/powerman so good to know
> 
> Sounds like The midrange is probaly already so impressive on the WA33 there isn't any more to add?



Exactly. That was the major difference. The midrange of the Wa33 was, to me, why you get the amp for the abyss. Lots of headphone amps have plenty of power, Wa33 included, but that was it's secret weapon. The headphones disappear and you are just left with music.

But, there were also areas of the Superconductor I didn't like in comparison to the stock with the Formula S. Best test track for what I'm speaking to for me was the first track of the Star Trek: Into The Darkness Score. It sounded slow and plodding rather than fast - as the Abyss typically was with the stock cable. While it sounded great on rock and vocal oriented music, I didn't want to pay that much for a cable that made certain genres I listen to sound worse.

Now, it's not doing it with the Wa33. Now I listened to the stock cable at night on Friday for a couple hours, and received the Superconductor on Saturday - and listened to that all weekend without switching back. From recollection, differences are subtle. But I need to compare it directly to stock. I will after I get a couple more days on these cables.


----------



## mammal

Drewligarchy said:


> Exactly. That was the major difference. The midrange of the Wa33 was, to me, why you get the amp for the abyss. Lots of headphone amps have plenty of power, Wa33 included, but that was it's secret weapon. The headphones disappear and you are just left with music.


I really wonder about this WA33. Since I live in Europe and getting fully upgraded WA33 is kinda impossible (read very expensive) I cannot directly try. Could you tell me what do you mean by "headphones disappear" when you refer to midrange of this amp with 1266? For example, I tried Riviera AIC-10 and Viva Egoista 845 amplifier, both amazing pieces of equipment, BUT I don't know which of it I would call "headphones disappear". Are you referring to transparency? I found Egoista much more transparent (playing to strengths of 1266), BUT Riviera was more enjoyable for mid centric music, as it coloured 1266's recessed cold/metallic mids. When you say headphones disappear, is that because WA33 changes tonality of the headphone to something more pleasing, or because it does not change the signature? I am curious, thanks!


----------



## stemiki

My personal opinion: why should I spend 10 / 20K  on amplification to change the setting of a headphone (Abyss AB-1266) that was born like this, with its advantages (many) and defects (few)?


----------



## mammal

stemiki said:


> My personal opinion: why should I spend 10 / 20K  on amplification to change the setting of a headphone (Abyss AB-1266) that was born like this, with its advantages (many) and defects (few)?


Oh, I absolutely agree, I thought it was ridiculous to even try, wanted to rather have a second pair of headphones, but when I actually test driven all of these combinations (Susvara, Valkyria, Utopia and Bartok or Viva) I just ended up falling in love with 1266+Riviera, nothing else quite could do it for me after that. Of course, that is only true for some genres, EDM still sounds best out of Bartok (not using Riviera for EDM).


----------



## ken6217

stemiki said:


> My personal opinion: why should I spend 10 / 20K  on amplification to change the setting of a headphone (Abyss AB-1266) that was born like this, with its advantages (many) and defects (few)?


Born like what? It doesn't operate in a vacuum. It needs an amp, DAC, cables, etc. If you wanted your statement to be accurate, you would have to ask JPS Labs what equipment they used in conjunction with the TC to voice it.

The basic sound characteristics will be there regardless of the associated equipment, however some characteristics can be altered depending on the amp, DAC, and cables.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Aug 2, 2021)

mammal said:


> I really wonder about this WA33. Since I live in Europe and getting fully upgraded WA33 is kinda impossible (read very expensive) I cannot directly try. Could you tell me what do you mean by "headphones disappear" when you refer to midrange of this amp with 1266? For example, I tried Riviera AIC-10 and Viva Egoista 845 amplifier, both amazing pieces of equipment, BUT I don't know which of it I would call "headphones disappear". Are you referring to transparency? I found Egoista much more transparent (playing to strengths of 1266), BUT Riviera was more enjoyable for mid centric music, as it coloured 1266's recessed cold/metallic mids. When you say headphones disappear, is that because WA33 changes tonality of the headphone to something more pleasing, or because it does not change the signature? I am curious, thanks!



I am not particular good at these types of descriptions but at a high level it’s more real. I also have a very good source thats highly optimized. It definitely fills out the mids a bit, but yes - transparency to the source is incredibly high, while sounding more liquid. I found the abyss a touch dry on solid state.

There are edges where there are supposed to be, and no edges where there is not. Let’s take vocals / voice. If I am having a conversation with you I hear your voice and it doesn’t sound bright or dark. It just sound like a voice. That’s what the woo did. When I hear vocals, they just sound real. Not bright, not dark, not recorded. Now if you apply that to other parts of the music as well, their tonality, transients and sound envelope - it’s going to sound more real - thus the headphones disappearing. Like you could imagine someone playing in front of you.


----------



## stemiki

ken6217 said:


> Born like what? It doesn't operate in a vacuum. It needs an amp, DAC, cables, etc. If you wanted your statement to be accurate, you would have to ask JPS Labs what equipment they used in conjunction with the TC to voice it.
> 
> The basic sound characteristics will be there regardless of the associated equipment, however some characteristics can be altered depending on the amp, DAC, and cables.


Let me explain: if I have a system of a certain high level (file-dac-source of high quality) the amplifier at this point should only amplify a signal from point A to point B. At this point if the result does not satisfy perhaps is the case to switch to another headset instead of spending another 10-20k of amplifier ... IMHO


----------



## stemiki

mammal said:


> Oh, I absolutely agree, I thought it was ridiculous to even try, wanted to rather have a second pair of headphones, but when I actually test driven all of these combinations (Susvara, Valkyria, Utopia and Bartok or Viva) I just ended up falling in love with 1266+Riviera, nothing else quite could do it for me after that. Of course, that is only true for some genres, EDM still sounds best out of Bartok (not using Riviera for EDM).


I can understand you. Indeed this is a passion without limits!


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## mammal

Drewligarchy said:


> *There are edges where there are supposed to be, and no edges where there is not*. Let’s take vocals / voice. If I am having a conversation with you I hear your voice and it doesn’t sound bright or dark. It just sound like a voice. That’s what the woo did. When I hear vocals, they just sound real. Not bright, not dark, not recorded. Now if you apply that to other parts of the music as well, their tonality, transients and sound envelope - it’s going to sound more real - thus the headphones disappearing. Like you could imagine someone playing in front of you.


Very interesting, thank you. This is how I felt after upgrading from TT2 to Bartok, music sounded predictable and not coloured to a certain direction, sharp sounded sharp, but soft sounded soft, it was like as if I removed a coloured glass (or replaced it with transparent glass). Now you got me wondering regarding WA33 and 1266 mids. So far you have described tonality (and transients), but how about distance/forwardness? For me, "stock" 1266 out of most of amplifiers has a V shape, where mids (vocals mainly) sound like someone is singing from a hallway, where as with Riviera, it becomes more "flat", meaning that vocals go to the front a lot. So for me, Riviera changes both tonality (good for mids centric music, bad for EDM), but also vocal forwardness (good for both EDM and mids centric music).


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## Drewligarchy (Aug 2, 2021)

stemiki said:


> Let me explain: if I have a system of a certain high level (file-dac-source of high quality) the amplifier at this point should only amplify a signal from point A to point B. At this point if the result does not satisfy perhaps is the case to switch to another headset instead of spending another 10-20k of amplifier ... IMHO



You don’t need to spend 10-20k on a good amp for the Abyss, but to your general point, the reason I would play around with amps is because if you get it right, the musical enjoyment (admittedly not necessarily accuracy) is going to be signficantly more than another headphone because the abyss does certain things no other headphone does, and frequency response doesn’t tell the whole story.

I have a v281, didn’t like it with the abyss. Tonally it was good - but couldn’t get the soundstage for some reason. I had the formula s, and like it most amongst solid states, but ultimately felt I was losing to much transparency with Dave. I actually listened to it directly plugged into Dave and tonality was spot on - it just wasn’t enough power.

I demoed your amp, the benchmark, for their 30 day period - and ended up returning it. I know it’s an exceptionally well engineered amp, I felt it was a little dry directly comparing to plugging into the Dave. I told them that when I returned it, and they thought i was crazy. But it was, to my ears. Doesn’t mean it’s not a great amp, just wasn’t for me

The thing I enjoy about this hobby is finding something you like and then optimizing it for your preferences as much as possible. Sure, if you don’t like it to begin with - you should get a different headphones. But nearly Every headphone can be improved with the electronics that suit the headphone and your taste.


----------



## Drewligarchy

mammal said:


> Very interesting, thank you. This is how I felt after upgrading from TT2 to Bartok, music sounded predictable and not coloured to a certain direction, sharp sounded sharp, but soft sounded soft, it was like as if I removed a coloured glass (or replaced it with transparent glass). Now you got me wondering regarding WA33 and 1266 mids. So far you have described tonality (and transients), but how about distance/forwardness? For me, "stock" 1266 out of most of amplifiers has a V shape, where mids (vocals mainly) sound like someone is singing from a hallway, where as with Riviera, it becomes more "flat", meaning that vocals go to the front a lot. So for me, Riviera changes both tonality (good for mids centric music, bad for EDM), but also vocal forwardness (good for both EDM and mids centric music).



yes, definitely more mid forward with the woo. It seems tubes generally do the, even if the Configuration is different (eg push pull / set).


----------



## ken6217

stemiki said:


> Let me explain: if I have a system of a certain high level (file-dac-source of high quality) the amplifier at this point should only amplify a signal from point A to point B. At this point if the result does not satisfy perhaps is the case to switch to another headset instead of spending another 10-20k of amplifier ... IMHO


That explanation does make sense. You will change some characteristics of the headphone by changing amps, but the inherent characteristics of the 1266 will still be there.

With that said, depending on the amp, you can change the tone, soundstage, spacing, and detail, while still maintaining the main attributes of the 1266.


----------



## stemiki

Drewligarchy said:


> You don’t need to spend 10-20k on a good amp for the Abyss, but to your general point, the reason I would play around with amps is because if you get it right, the musical enjoyment (admittedly not necessarily accuracy) is going to be signficantly more than another headphone because the abyss does certain things no other headphone does, and frequency response doesn’t tell the whole story.
> 
> I have a v281, didn’t like it with the abyss. Tonally it was good - but couldn’t get the soundstage for some reason. I had the formula s, and like it most amongst solid states, but ultimately felt I was losing to much transparency with Dave. I actually listened to it directly plugged into Dave and tonality was spot on - it just wasn’t enough power.
> 
> ...


In fact, mine was not a criticism of Mamal or who spends a lot on this hobby. It was just a reflection about the amplifiers which, in the case of high level sources, should only amplify at this point, otherwise why spend a lot on the source / dac and change their timbre again ..


----------



## mammal

Drewligarchy said:


> yes, definitely more mid forward with the woo. It seems tubes generally do the, even if the Configuration is different (eg push pull / set).


I am not knowledgeable enough about tubes, the only two I tried sounded very different, Riviera definitely brought mids forward, BUT Viva did not at all, to my surprise it sounded more transparent than Bartok itself. I am sure I am overloading the term transparent here, maybe what I want to say is "more clean" (calling it sterile would be too much). As far as I understand, Viva is a SET tube and Riviera is a hybrid (tube for preamp, the rest being solid state).


----------



## therock10

Drewligarchy said:


> You don’t need to spend 10-20k on a good amp for the Abyss, but to your general point, the reason I would play around with amps is because if you get it right, the musical enjoyment (admittedly not necessarily accuracy) is going to be signficantly more than another headphone because the abyss does certain things no other headphone does, and frequency response doesn’t tell the whole story.
> 
> I have a v281, didn’t like it with the abyss. Tonally it was good - but couldn’t get the soundstage for some reason. I had the formula s, and like it most amongst solid states, but ultimately felt I was losing to much transparency with Dave. I actually listened to it directly plugged into Dave and tonality was spot on - it just wasn’t enough power.
> 
> ...


did you try the xiaudio formula s+ powerman with ab1266? even abyss said they are design for the ab1266


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## sahmen (Aug 2, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> Born like what? It doesn't operate in a vacuum. It needs an amp, DAC, cables, etc. If you wanted your statement to be accurate, you would have to ask JPS Labs what equipment they used in conjunction with the TC to voice it.
> 
> The basic sound characteristics will be there regardless of the associated equipment, however some characteristics can be altered depending on the amp, DAC, and cables.


Funny, but this sounds exactly like what I wanted to tell you when you dismissed the Pathos InPol Ear as sounding "Equal" to the Wa33 because someone had said that the two amps perform "at the same level" or something like that. Ha ha, Like you, I was wondering  about these same issues regarding the particular chains and synergies that produced that verdict,  and also wondering why you did not show any curiosity about the same factors, especially since the Wa33 comes under different configurations, and the Pathos too has to work with tubes which always influence its performance for better or for worse...

Since such variables (tube-rolling variables, among others) on both sides already render any judgment about their being simply "equal" already highly debatable, if not outright suspect, it surprised me that you would accept the verdict so readily without further ado...

Personally, I would ask questions similar to yours if someone were to tell me that the Sonnet Morpheus (out of context) performs at the same level as, say the Schiit Bifrost 2 or the Topping D90 (also out of context). I would ask about the surrounding equipment instead of jumping to the conclusion that the Morpheus and the Bifrost are "equal" on the basis of that "someone"'s comment.

Not trying to piss you off here, or anything of that sort, honestly.  I just thought using your own insights to rephrase my question might work best for you since you dismissed my earlier attempts as "parsing."

Now I shall humbly lay this topic to rest in order not to digress too much from the topic of the TC, which I am currently very interested in.  Fortunately, my understanding is that both the Wa33 and the InPol Ear are great with the TC, so hopefully this post does not come across as being too off the mark.

Again, just doing a little follow-up. Not trying to piss you off or pick a fight.


----------



## mammal

ken6217 said:


> That explanation does make sense. You will change some characteristics of the headphone by changing amps, but the inherent characteristics of the 1266 will still be there.
> 
> With that said, depending on the amp, you can change the tone, soundstage, spacing, and detail, while still maintaining the main attributes of the 1266.


I like your line of thinking, but have found folks online not being 100% on the same page when it comes to "what are those characteristics", if you know what I mean. For example, to me what Abyss does the best (for the price point and my experience level) is resolution. Eeeeveryone is telling me about 1266's bass, but for me (and nobody warned me), 1266's selling point is its resolution. But for me, 1266 compared to others (like Susvara or Valkyria) sound so resolving, in every meaning of the word. Layered bass, detailed mids, expansive soundstage and impressive imaging, all of these feel to me as "good technicalities" of a headphone, where as other things like tonality (V shape, flat neutral), I can fix with a dac/amp combo. Resolution, is what I found ultimately the most important thing for me. I am yet to hear SR1a (which is said to resolve even more, but lack in other areas, so perhaps less balanced or less "fixable" with amps, we will see). I for one, tried Susvara for 2 weeks, really wanted to own it, but in the end, was missing said resolution. Don't take me wrong, it is still very resolving headphone and I know many will disagree with me, saying that mids are actually more resolving on Susvara, but for me, they were not, and I did try multiple amplifiers, to power it sufficiently.


----------



## ken6217

sahmen said:


> Funny, but this sounds exactly like what I wanted to tell you when you dismissed the Pathos InPol Ear as sounding "Equal" to the Wa33 because someone had said that the two amps perform "at the same level" or something like that. Ha ha, Like you, I was wondering  about these same issues regarding the particular chains and synergies that produced that verdict,  and also wondering why you did not show any curiosity about the same factors, especially since the Wa33 comes under different configurations, and the Pathos too has to work with tubes which always influence its performance for better or for worse...
> 
> Since such variables (tube-rolling variables, among others) on both sides already render any judgment about their being simply "equal" already highly debatable, if not outright suspect, it surprised me that you would accept the verdict so readily without further ado...
> 
> ...



First of all, you can’t piss me off as I don’t care enough. 

Secondly, the reason I said that about the Pathos is that I heard the WA33 and didn’t like it at all. So when someone tells me the Pathos is on the same level, then I’m already turned off to it.


----------



## Drewligarchy

therock10 said:


> did you try the xiaudio formula s+ powerman with ab1266? even abyss said they are design for the ab1266



Yes. I sold it. I preferred the Wa33.


----------



## sahmen

ken6217 said:


> First of all, you can’t piss me off as I don’t care enough.


Fair enough, and good to know.


----------



## ken6217

ken6217 said:


> That explanation does make sense. You will change some characteristics of the headphone by changing amps, but the inherent characteristics of the 1266 will still be there.
> 
> With that said, depending on the amp, you can change the tone, soundstage, spacing, and detail, while still maintaining the main attributes of the 1266.


To saysay it more succinctly, with a good amplifier you can make a great sounding headphone even better.


----------



## Drewligarchy

mammal said:


> I like your line of thinking, but have found folks online not being 100% on the same page when it comes to "what are those characteristics", if you know what I mean. For example, to me what Abyss does the best (for the price point and my experience level) is resolution. Eeeeveryone is telling me about 1266's bass, but for me (and nobody warned me), 1266's selling point is its resolution. But for me, 1266 compared to others (like Susvara or Valkyria) sound so resolving, in every meaning of the word. Layered bass, detailed mids, expansive soundstage and impressive imaging, all of these feel to me as "good technicalities" of a headphone, where as other things like tonality (V shape, flat neutral), I can fix with a dac/amp combo. Resolution, is what I found ultimately the most important thing for me. I am yet to hear SR1a (which is said to resolve even more, but lack in other areas, so perhaps less balanced or less "fixable" with amps, we will see). I for one, tried Susvara for 2 weeks, really wanted to own it, but in the end, was missing said resolution. Don't take me wrong, it is still very resolving headphone and I know many will disagree with me, saying that mids are actually more resolving on Susvara, but for me, they were not, and I did try multiple amplifiers, to power it sufficiently.


Problem is even when you say resolution it can mean different things. I have the Susvara and I think it’s higher resolution than the abyss. To me resolution is detail - both macro and micro detail. I don’t think the abyss is the best in microdetail. This is not to say it’s bad - but for instance I can’t hear reverb tails as well. To me the soundstage, imaging, bass extension and slam, and tactility of the headphone across the frequency spectrum is what’s incredibly unique. That said, I think we agree and are talking about the same thing!


----------



## Drewligarchy

stemiki said:


> In fact, mine was not a criticism of Mamal or who spends a lot on this hobby. It was just a reflection about the amplifiers which, in the case of high level sources, should only amplify at this point, otherwise why spend a lot on the source / dac and change their timbre again ..



J Gordon Holt of Stereophile said that while tubes arent always as accurate the “glorify” the sound. So i do t think of it as changing but glorifying. Also, ironically, the wa33 sounds more true to my source when comparing the headphone in on the Dave than any other amp. It’s push pull, so not as much harmonics as a set amp, but that’s one of the reasons I liked it so much.


----------



## levap

Abyss AB-1266 PHI TC to Headphones starmap (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/headphones-starmap.953011/post-16485460)


----------



## mammal

Drewligarchy said:


> Also, ironically, the wa33 sounds more true to my source when comparing the headphone in on the Dave than any other amp. It’s push pull, so not as much harmonics as a set amp, but that’s one of the reasons I liked it so much.


How do you find the heat on WA33? Viva was so hot I could not touch the volume knob


----------



## Drewligarchy

mammal said:


> How do you find the heat on WA33? Viva was so hot I could not touch the volume knob



It gets hot. I have never tried the Viva, but I’ve heard that can be worse. I can touch the knobs just fine, but not the case after a couple hours of use.


----------



## stemiki

Drewligarchy said:


> J Gordon Holt of Stereophile said that while tubes arent always as accurate the “glorify” the sound. So i do t think of it as changing but glorifying. Also, ironically, the wa33 sounds more true to my source when comparing the headphone in on the Dave than any other amp. It’s push pull, so not as much harmonics as a set amp, but that’s one of the reasons I liked it so much.


You have certainly found a good balance in your system. I am also convinced that in high-end systems, every little change can make a huge difference. For example, when I was trying various interconnects between DAVE and HPA4 I saw noticeable changes from one metal to another.


----------



## mammal

stemiki said:


> You have certainly found a good balance in your system. I am also convinced that in high-end systems, every little change can make a huge difference. *For example, when I was trying various interconnects between DAVE and HPA4 I saw noticeable changes from one metal to another.*


I would also like to add that it seems to me that some folks are more sensitive to timing differences, where as others to frequency response changes. I for one, did not benefit from M Scaler nor Rossini Clock, yet, I was able to blind ABX copper and silver headphone cables.


----------



## Drewligarchy

mammal said:


> I would also like to add that it seems to me that some folks are more sensitive to timing differences, where as others to frequency response changes. I for one, did not benefit from M Scaler nor Rossini Clock, yet, I was able to blind ABX copper and silver headphone cables.



I’m surprised you didn’t like m scaler. I found the difference was most notable with the abyss because it has an easy time of picking up depth cues which the m scaler enhances. Of course, I’m using it with a Dave, so it could be completely different with another dac.


----------



## mammal

Drewligarchy said:


> I’m surprised you didn’t like m scaler. I found the difference was most notable with the abyss because it has an easy time of picking up depth cues which the m scaler enhances. Of course, I’m using it with a Dave, so it could be completely different with another dac.


I had M Scaler for 2 week demo, as I wanted to add it to my TT2. I struggled to hear a difference and when I think I finally did, I don't think I liked it. Maybe with Dave, it works better?


----------



## Gadget67

mammal said:


> I had M Scaler for 2 week demo, as I wanted to add it to my TT2. I struggled to hear a difference and when I think I finally did, I don't think I liked it. Maybe with Dave, it works better?


The difference when added to my TT2 was absolutely noticeable.  I’m using Audirvana which may (or, may not…) have something to do with it.


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## Drewligarchy (Aug 2, 2021)

mammal said:


> I had M Scaler for 2 week demo, as I wanted to add it to my TT2. I struggled to hear a difference and when I think I finally did, I don't think I liked it. Maybe with Dave, it works better?



I think it’s more noticeable. It also takes A lot of work to optimize, otherwise it can appear to have some treble glare. But if you want to read about that there is 500 pages on the mscaler thread 

I also think your Bartok is pretty damn good. So I don’t think you are missing all that much.


----------



## mammal

Gadget67 said:


> The difference when added to my TT2 was absolutely noticeable.  I’m using Audirvana which may (or, may not…) have something to do with it.


Thanks for sharing. And of course, in no way I am trying to discredit others, actually on contrary - trying more and more gear teaches me that everyone is different and that at this level of performance, individual preferences / tastes matter a lot. Some folks spend 4k on M Scaler device, which on paper does a lot, and some do the same on cables, where as both camps argue their purchase makes more of a difference. I say, try both (if you can) and decide for yourself!


----------



## mammal

Drewligarchy said:


> I think it’s more noticeable. It also takes A lot of work to optimize, otherwise it can appear to have some treble glare. But if you want to read about that there is 500 pages on the mscaler thread
> 
> *I also think your Bartok is pretty damn good. So I don’t think you are missing all that much.*


Thank you. Yeah, I need one dac/amp combo, a device that can power 1266 to satisfactory quality, that's why it was for me between TT2 and Bartok, not Dave vs Bartok. I do have an external amp, but that's for a different reason. When I tried adding a clock to Bartok, I heard even less difference than M Scaler on TT2 to be honest.


----------



## Lucky87

mammal said:


> Thank you. Yeah, I need one dac/amp combo, a device that can power 1266 to satisfactory quality, that's why it was for me between TT2 and Bartok, not Dave vs Bartok. I do have an external amp, but that's for a different reason. When I tried adding a clock to Bartok, I heard even less difference than M Scaler on TT2 to be honest.


When I first tried the TT2 via Utopia/Empyreans I thought it was good then I hooked up the MScaler and it was a big improvement. Then I went to the Dave by itself with the Utopia and could not believe what I was hearing just effortless sound and new this was the DAC direction to go. Never felt the MScaler was going to be in the near future tell I bought the Susvara's I truly appreciate the combo and would not give them up and now specially with the 1266 TC as well.

A couple of weeks ago I had a listen with the Bartok via headphone amp with the Susvara's and Utopia's and I was extremely impressed with the overall sound. I went back with my WA33 Elite with all KR HP Tubes and I did not like the combo at all. But when I moved over to the Rossini I was impressed again and really loved the combo. 
The whole reason for demoing was trying to cut down on all of the boxes on the Dave/MScaler side and have more of a all in one solution. I do not think I will ever go the Rossini route that kind of money is better spend on HIFIMAN HIFIMAN Shangri-La Electrostatic Headphones.  

Going to try the STOCK WA33 tubes with the TC later tonight. I find with my current setup with the KR HP tubes it is very Solid State sounding but with a better soundstage just curious on what the sound will be with the TC's

Not sure if I should post anything with the word WA33 in this thread with all of the death threats about expensive amps..


----------



## qboogie

levap said:


> Abyss AB-1266 PHI TC to Headphones starmap (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/headphones-starmap.953011/post-16485460)


This is a fascinating take on headphones in general


----------



## mammal

Lucky87 said:


> When I first tried the TT2 via Utopia/Empyreans I thought it was good then I hooked up the MScaler and it was a big improvement. Then I went to the Dave by itself with the Utopia and could not believe what I was hearing just effortless sound and new this was the DAC direction to go. Never felt the MScaler was going to be in the near future tell I bought the Susvara's I truly appreciate the combo and would not give them up and now specially with the 1266 TC as well.
> 
> A couple of weeks ago I had a listen with the Bartok via headphone amp with the Susvara's and Utopia's and I was extremely impressed with the overall sound. I went back with my WA33 Elite with all KR HP Tubes and I did not like the combo at all. But when I moved over to the Rossini I was impressed again and really loved the combo.
> The whole reason for demoing was trying to cut down on all of the boxes on the Dave/MScaler side and have more of a all in one solution. I do not think I will ever go the Rossini route that kind of money is better spend on HIFIMAN HIFIMAN Shangri-La Electrostatic Headphones.
> ...


Thank you for sharing your impressions. I have heard from some other Bartok owners that they sold WA33 (either edition) as they liked Bartok better (not to mention the all in one appeal). But good to know that with Rossini it worked great again, shows how synergy matters in this hobby!


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## saudio7 (Aug 3, 2021)

Just checking TC with SC cable and they sound more balanced compere to stock, sound stage is bigger and more precise, those are first impresion.


----------



## sahmen

Is there anyway one can get special pricing for the TC with some dealers, as it happens for other cans? I mean discounted pricing.


----------



## vonBaron

Yes, but you will wait few weeks for them.


----------



## sahmen

vonBaron said:


> Yes, but you will wait few weeks for them.


Link (s)? I would not mind waiting if the deals are good enough.


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## 432789 (Aug 4, 2021)

saudio7 said:


> Just checking TC with SC cable and they sound more balanced compere to stock, sound stage is bigger and more precise, those are first impresion.


I THINK I can hear what the singer ate for breakfast the day of the recording and the exact tera hertz frequency of the carpet color they were standing on. All the micro nano pico details are just flowing through. LOL facepalm


----------



## paradoxper

sahmen said:


> Is there anyway one can get special pricing for the TC with some dealers, as it happens for other cans? I mean discounted pricing.


Are you outside the US?


----------



## sahmen

paradoxper said:


> Are you outside the US?


No, I am in Massachusetts, NE.


----------



## paradoxper

sahmen said:


> No, I am in Massachusetts, NE.


PM.


----------



## grokit

Discounts huh (facepalm)? My new pride n' joys are scheduled to arrive direct from the factory in Lancaster NY within the next few hours. I've been wanting to try a set of these for a few years. Now that I have the chain in place to support them I went for it, slightly ahead of schedule even. 

I called a few days after I ordered, Joe picked up(!) and told me they were running a couple of weeks out. Which was faster than I expected. Then they shipped early; only took ~10 days from when I ordered (7/24). Joe's an approachable guy, and on the phone he sounds just like he does on the Youtube videos.

Off the bat I'll be comparing my Cardas Clear headphone cable (with affinity adapters) to the stock 4-pin. It looks like the Cable Co is the place to try/buy an SC cable, especially if 4-pin termination is desired. So after I have enough hours on the amp (already got a week on it) & headphones, I'll get in line for the demo.

I seriously can't wait to try these headphones! I need to make a couple of calls, then it's nothing but listening time for the rest of the day/evening.

Q: what is this o-ring thing (mod?) I've seen references to? 

Q2: any news on another run of stands?

Cheers!


----------



## DJJEZ

grokit said:


> Discounts huh (facepalm)? My new pride n' joys are scheduled to arrive direct from the factory in Lancaster NY within the next few hours. I've been wanting to try a set of these for a few years. Now that I have the chain in place to support them I went for it, slightly ahead of schedule even.
> 
> I called a few days after I ordered, Joe picked up(!) and told me they were running a couple of weeks out. Which was faster than I expected. Then they shipped early; only took ~10 days from when I ordered (7/24). Joe's an approachable guy, and on the phone he sounds just like he does on the Youtube videos.
> 
> ...


Regarding the stands. My buddy in UK got one from the europe seller a week ago after waiting a few months so they are definetley being made and probaly some are on their way to abyss soon


----------



## ken6217

sahmen said:


> Is there anyway one can get special pricing for the TC with some dealers, as it happens for other cans? I mean discounted pricing.


Why do you want special pricing? Everyone knows the more expensive it is the better it sounds? Why do you think the WA33 Elite sounds twice as good as the WA33. 😃


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> Regarding the stands. My buddy in UK got one from the europe seller a week ago after waiting a few months so they are definetley being made and probaly some are on their way to abyss soon


I definitely like the look of the Abyss headphone stand, but they are overpriced (yes, I know how much I’ve already spent…) and there are inexpensive alternatives.  I purchased two headset hangers from Amazon; here’s a link:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PFV1NQX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Heres a pic with my headphones: I’m a bit cramped for space so these are (literally) perfect.  If I had more space I suppose I’d probably buy the Abyss stand, but I’m perfectly happy with the hangers!


----------



## sahmen

ken6217 said:


> Why do you want special pricing? Everyone knows the more expensive it is the better it sounds? Why do you think the WA33 Elite sounds twice as good as the WA33. 😃


Because I want the first "taste" to be special... Now if that turns out not to be special enough, I can think of other more "radical" remedies   

PS. As for the Wa33 elite, thinking of it now is giving my wallet attacks of vertigo, so I should probably save that subject for another day???


----------



## DJJEZ

sahmen said:


> Because I want the first "taste" to be special... Now if that turns out not to be special enough, I can think of other more "radical" remedies
> 
> PS. _*As for the Wa33 elite, thinking of it now is giving my wallet attacks of vertigo, so I should probably save that subject for another day???*_


If you have the money I say go for it. You only live once lol


----------



## ken6217 (Aug 3, 2021)

sahmen said:


> Because I want the first "taste" to be special... Now if that turns out not to be special enough, I can think of other more "radical" remedies
> 
> PS. As for the Wa33 elite, thinking of it now is giving my wallet attacks of vertigo, so I should probably save that subject for another day???


Don’t get confused. It’s not attacking your wallet, it's attacking your senses.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Why do you want special pricing? Everyone knows the more expensive it is the better it sounds? Why do you think the WA33 Elite sounds twice as good as the WA33. 😃


Double take. Bah.


----------



## drew911d (Aug 3, 2021)

Well, now that I'm back home...  I've spent more time with the AB1266 Phi (pre CC) in my system with the upgrade, Riviera AIC-10.  Holy wow.  What else can I say.  Some say it reduces transparency for a more mid forward sound.  I think it's something else.

The HMS/TT2 has a very sharp and detailed sound.  Sound stage from the TT2 rear XLR outputs is vast.  I'm starting to believe it's a sort of artificial vastness.  Great as it is, putting the Riviera into the mix it seems to smooth out that last tiny digital edge, making it more analog sounding.  It brings the soundstage back to something I'm more familiar with, soundwise.  It just sounds more real.

I'm more addicted to this sound than I've been before the Riviera.  I can listen all day long and never feel fatigued.  I bet more people would prefer this sound, as the time I've spent at headfi meets in the past I've seen how most people prefer a sound that is less mids recessed.

This amp really does bring the mids more forward, to a true neutral sound, to my uncalibrated brain.  Much more real sounding.  Gonna sit now until I can fall asleep listening to CCR songs.  Awesome!

Oh, and the bass is much more than from TT2 rear XLR.  Some say boomy, I don't want to use that term because, to me, it implies artificial boost.  It's stronger, more full and enveloping.  Still very controlled and articulate.  Not artificial at all.

And another thing.  Maybe it's the smoothing caused by this amp.  The difference between PCM and DSD is less obvious.  If you've noticed the difference before, the soundstage with PCM was huge, but DSD was not.  Just that DSD somehow sounded more musical, if not as accurate.  So now, everything sounds more musical and a more natural soundstage.  It's overall much more enjoyable.  You'd have to hear for yourself.


----------



## SuperBurrito

OceanRanger said:


> Ordered and received 100 Buna #213 O-Rings. $8.94. I'm not sure what I'll do with the other 98, but I can say that after replacement it's almost like a new pair of headphones. I should have don't this a few months ago. This might have been the biggest return on investment that I've experienced in this hobby.


Now that I have the Dakoni nuggets installed I need to order some bigger o-rings.  217 sounds about right.  
Soon I can become an o-ring dealer since I have so many. 

Abyss, please include a bunch of different sizes with the 1266.  Cost is virtually zero, and it would help with fit substantially!


----------



## MatW

SuperBurrito said:


> Now that I have the Dakoni nuggets installed I need to order some bigger o-rings.  217 sounds about right.
> Soon I can become an o-ring dealer since I have so many.
> 
> Abyss, please include a bunch of different sizes with the 1266.  Cost is virtually zero, and it would help with fit substantially!


+100. I've said this a bunch of times (and been derided for it). It makes perfect sense because everyone's head is different. No way one size fits all. I needed a substantially larger one, which completely transformed the comfort of the new headband for me. From unusable to great. A small cost to include say, three sizes... and a big help for the customer.


----------



## SuperBurrito

Drewligarchy said:


> I’m surprised you didn’t like m scaler. I found the difference was most notable with the abyss because it has an easy time of picking up depth cues which the m scaler enhances. Of course, I’m using it with a Dave, so it could be completely different with another dac.


I too didn't think the mscaler was a meaningful upgrade, when used with the Dave and Utopia (no HP amp).  Not to mention it reduces volume by 3db, which is very annoying with harder to drive headphones.


----------



## Gadget67

MatW said:


> +100. I've said this a bunch of times (and been derided for it). It makes perfect sense because everyone's head is different. No way one size fits all. I needed a substantially larger one, which completely transformed the comfort of the new headband for me. From unusable to great. A small cost to include say, three sizes... and a big help for the customer.


Totally agree here.  The stock size is (I think) 213.  They could include 211 and 215 to help purchasers at least get a fix on the most appropriate size.


----------



## Drewligarchy

SuperBurrito said:


> I too didn't think the mscaler was a meaningful upgrade, when used with the Dave and Utopia (no HP amp).  Not to mention it reduces volume by 3db, which is very annoying with harder to drive headphones.



Makes sense. To me, the biggest difference with the m scaler is staging. I use the abyss the most so it was pretty apparent - though not night and day. I can’t hear a difference as much with headphones that have a smaller stage.


----------



## Gadget67

SuperBurrito said:


> I too didn't think the mscaler was a meaningful upgrade, when used with the Dave and Utopia (no HP amp).  Not to mention it reduces volume by 3db, which is very annoying with harder to drive headphones.


I didn’t know the M-Scaler reduced volume; where did you learn that?  Not questioning you, just really genuinely curious!  I’ve been contemplating trying the DAVE so that’s useful information.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Gadget67 said:


> I didn’t know the M-Scaler reduced volume; where did you learn that?  Not questioning you, just really genuinely curious!  I’ve been contemplating trying the DAVE so that’s useful information.



It does, it's in the manual and Rob Watts has mentioned on the m-scaler thread. I think it's in order to provide headroom for the DSP being applied, but not sure.


----------



## MatW

Gadget67 said:


> I didn’t know the M-Scaler reduced volume; where did you learn that?  Not questioning you, just really genuinely curious!  I’ve been contemplating trying the DAVE so that’s useful information.


It's true but not an issue if your amp has sufficient headroom


----------



## SuperBurrito

MatW said:


> It's true but not an issue if your amp has sufficient headroom


True, but when running HPs straight from the Dave it's a different story.  The Dave's HP output is not mega-powerful, so a 3db reduction in volume is not good news for harder to drive HPs.


----------



## MatW

SuperBurrito said:


> True, but when running HPs straight from the Dave it's a different story.  The Dave's HP output is not mega-powerful, so a 3db reduction in volume is not good news for harder to drive HPs.


Out of curiosity, which headphones are you driving with the Dave? I plug anything that's harder to drive into an amp. Direct from Dave only with efficient headphones like the Empyrean, IEMs, and soon the Utopia.


----------



## SuperBurrito

MatW said:


> Out of curiosity, which headphones are you driving with the Dave? I plug anything that's harder to drive into an amp. Direct from Dave only with efficient headphones like the Empyrean, IEMs, and soon the Utopia.


Mainly I used the Utopia, which the Dave could drive well.
I'd prefer to use a separate amp for the Susvara and 1266


----------



## jlbrach

Gadget67 said:


> I didn’t know the M-Scaler reduced volume; where did you learn that?  Not questioning you, just really genuinely curious!  I’ve been contemplating trying the DAVE so that’s useful information.


it reduces volume by 3db


----------



## Gadget67

jlbrach said:


> it reduces volume by 3db


Yes, I saw that in the @SuperBurrito post I was responding to.  Again, not questioning that volume is reduced by 3db; just curious to know where that information comes from.


----------



## jlbrach

from rob watts lol


----------



## littlej0e (Aug 4, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> Why do you want special pricing? Everyone knows the more expensive it is the better it sounds? Why do you think the WA33 Elite sounds twice as good as the WA33. 😃


Because the WA33’s got electrolytes. DUH…


----------



## normie610

Ordered. Hope it’ll take less than 6 weeks 🤞🏽


----------



## Drewligarchy

Any recommendations for a headphone stand for the Abyss? I see the one on JPS's site is sold out. I have them currently on a woo double headphone stand alone with a piece of fabric over the stand's metal piece so I can rest the to bar of the headphone on it, to preserve the headband and prevent metal on metal.

All that said, while it's a great headphone stand - it's a bit awkward for the abyss. If anyone has something they really like, and can let me know, it's greatly appreciated!


----------



## genefruit

Drewligarchy said:


> Any recommendations for a headphone stand for the Abyss? I see the one on JPS's site is sold out. I have them currently on a woo double headphone stand alone with a piece of fabric over the stand's metal piece so I can rest the to bar of the headphone on it, to preserve the headband and prevent metal on metal.
> 
> All that said, while it's a great headphone stand - it's a bit awkward for the abyss. If anyone has something they really like, and can let me know, it's greatly appreciated!


I like mine, but I'm biased - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-diy-headphone-stand-thread.249671/post-16059259

DIY thread has all sorts of great ideas - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-diy-headphone-stand-thread.249671/


----------



## Ballszilla (Aug 6, 2021)

Received my pair on Tuesday, ordered from a dealer in Germany who had them in stock and shipped them to me. Wow! Once I played around with adjusting the pads and toe in, incredible! The detail and energy they deliver is off the charts, literally every album sounds like I'm listening to it in a whole new way

I moved up from Aryas, love them and I'll be keeping them to change up the sound once in a while but the TCs are better in every way. Best way I can put it is that they make the Aryas sound polite and reserved. Rock n Roll should sound/feel urgent and in your face, TCs deliver that in spades

If anyone wants to get a feel for how good the slam is, listen to Metallica's Fight Fire with Fire. The change from the acoustic intro to trash guitars is like the blast wave of a nuclear bomb hitting and decimating everything in it's path; the sound is huge!


----------



## SuperBurrito

Drewligarchy said:


> Any recommendations for a headphone stand for the Abyss? I see the one on JPS's site is sold out. I have them currently on a woo double headphone stand alone with a piece of fabric over the stand's metal piece so I can rest the to bar of the headphone on it, to preserve the headband and prevent metal on metal.
> 
> All that said, while it's a great headphone stand - it's a bit awkward for the abyss. If anyone has something they really like, and can let me know, it's greatly appreciated!


I use the Woo double HP stand and rest the headband of the 1266 on it.  In fact, Abyss recommended to me that I rest the HP by the headband (not the aluminum frame) in order for the o-rings and leather to stretch to the intended length.


----------



## nrbatista

Drewligarchy said:


> Any recommendations for a headphone stand for the Abyss? I see the one on JPS's site is sold out. I have them currently on a woo double headphone stand alone with a piece of fabric over the stand's metal piece so I can rest the to bar of the headphone on it, to preserve the headband and prevent metal on metal.
> 
> All that said, while it's a great headphone stand - it's a bit awkward for the abyss. If anyone has something they really like, and can let me know, it's greatly appreciated!


I’m using this one from Headphone Auditions Amsterdam, specifically designed for the 1266.


----------



## jlbrach

great stand, very expensive....we have gotten to the point where a good stand costs as much as a good HP did not too long ago!


----------



## leilei787

Guys, my 1266 Phi TC had one O ring broken. Could anyone let me know where i can buy a similar one like the stock O ring?  

A link would be appreciated!!


----------



## Another Audiophile

shameless plug guys if you are interested for a Double Helix - Prion4 Headphone Cable: DHC’s Masterpiece with a set of adapters specifically made for this headphone. It's new and I've list it for sale in Classifieds. PM for info


----------



## simorag (Aug 8, 2021)

For those using Qobuz, an intriguing playlist kindly provided by Max Richter, especially enjoyable with the AB-1266


----------



## Drewligarchy

Ballszilla said:


> Received my pair on Tuesday, ordered from a dealer in Germany who had them in stock and shipped them to me. Wow! Once I played around with adjusting the pads and toe in, incredible! The detail and energy they deliver is off the charts, literally every album sounds like I'm listening to it in a whole new way
> 
> I moved up from Aryas, love them and I'll be keeping them to change up the sound once in a while but the TCs are better in every way. Best way I can put it is that they make the Aryas sound polite and reserved. Rock n Roll should sound/feel urgent and in your face, TCs deliver that in spades
> 
> If anyone wants to get a feel for how good the slam is, listen to Metallica's Fight Fire with Fire. The change from the acoustic intro to trash guitars is like the blast wave of a nuclear bomb hitting and decimating everything in it's path; the sound is huge!



Yeah - Abyss is THE Rock headphone, IMO. It, of course, does other genres well - but I don't think anything comes remotely close on Rock


----------



## SuperBurrito

leilei787 said:


> Guys, my 1266 Phi TC had one O ring broken. Could anyone let me know where i can buy a similar one like the stock O ring?
> 
> A link would be appreciated!!


Joe posted the o-ring specs:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-821#post-15908685

You can buy a 100 pack on Amazon for cheap.


----------



## leilei787

SuperBurrito said:


> Joe posted the o-ring specs:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-821#post-15908685
> 
> You can buy a 100 pack on Amazon for cheap.


I was laughing when I saw someone post a link to that O ring assortment kits.


----------



## SuperBurrito

leilei787 said:


> I was laughing when I saw someone post a link to that O ring assortment kits.


It's not a bad idea. I've tried 3 sizes already.  And now that I've got the Dakoni nuggets I'll buy a couple more sizes.  And the o-rings break too.


----------



## JLoud

+1 for the Dekoni Nuggets.


----------



## cangle

SuperBurrito said:


> Joe posted the o-ring specs:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-821#post-15908685
> 
> You can buy a 100 pack on Amazon for cheap.


Thanks for the link to that post, I hadn't come across that before. I started with a multi-size kit which was helpful to know which size I like which is 213 and 214. Any bigger and after a day I would have too much stretch.

Just ordered these which look mostly identical to the specs posted by Abyss: https://www.amazon.com/213-Buna-N-R...ords=urethane+213+oring&qid=1628476910&sr=8-4


----------



## drew911d

Sting; 10 summoners commandments.  Especially enjoyable with the Abyss!


----------



## ufospls2

Posted some thoughts on my amp with the abyss over in the susvara thread for anyone who is interested 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/page-696#post-16499837


----------



## shofilm (Aug 10, 2021)

Hello.

Can some owners of the orignal 1266 please send me their EQ settings?

I feel like the voices are just a little thin and that can be fixed with EQ.

Thanks!!!


----------



## IHMEYERS

Any opinions on pairing a 35W SET amp (6C33) with either the Abyss or the Susvara phones?  I have a pair of Wall M50s just sitting around gathering dust that I used in a set-up with single driver speakers.  The Walls sounded great driving Tonian speakers and I thought might be good driving headphones.  They are built like brick **ithouses and I thought 35W into 8ohm would translate nicely into a 47 ohm load.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## ken6217 (Aug 11, 2021)

IHMEYERS said:


> Any opinions on pairing a 35W SET amp (6C33) with either the Abyss or the Susvara phones?  I have a pair of Wall M50s just sitting around gathering dust that I used in a set-up with single driver speakers.  The Walls sounded great driving Tonian speakers and I thought might be good driving headphones.  They are built like brick **ithouses and I thought 35W into 8ohm would translate nicely into a 47 ohm load.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


You’ll have to listen for yourself and decide. Power by itself means nothing.


----------



## cangle (Aug 11, 2021)

shofilm said:


> Hello.
> 
> Can some owners of the orignal 1266 please send me their EQ settings?
> 
> ...


You could try this EQ that @Roasty posted about in June.


Roasty said:


> Try this. It's pretty good. Another friend of mine is using it and quite likes it too.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-15513121
> 
> Otherwise, I found that first adjusting the pads to the tightest bass, and then moving it them one notch forward to increase the bass slightly (9 and 3 o'clock position for me), and finally angling the frame so there is a bit of rest of the pads on the temples and tilting the headphones so that the headband rests on my head a bit more forward on my head seems to solve the problem of echoey highs and mids quite well.


 Edit: Sorry, maybe this isn't helpful as I see now that you are asking about the original 1266 but I suppose you could try it anyways and see if it helps even though I assume these settings are meant for the TC


----------



## IHMEYERS

Thanks for the response.  How the hell do you accomplish that?  No dealers locally (S. Florida).  I'd hate to invest $5k in a phone and then find out it doesn't work with a pair of $12k amps and then have to buy another amp.

Now I remember why I got out of high end HP about 5 years ago and just stuck to speaker based systems.  I'm not saying you don't need to be careful about matching speaker amps/speakers, but I've never had a big $ amp/speaker combo that was awful.  Some speakers or amps worked out better than others but there was enough research you could do (at least I could) to ensure everything played nicely together.  Pairing high-end phones / amp combos seem like hit or miss to me.  TOTL headphone only amps are crazy priced compared to the quality you get in a similarly priced speaker amp, WA33 anyone?  You can get a Dagostino stereo amp for $8k that is of much higher build quality.


----------



## mammal

IHMEYERS said:


> I'm not saying you don't need to be careful about matching speaker amps/speakers, but I've never had a big $ amp/speaker combo that was awful.


This is very interesting. I am not into speakers, but I feel like with those your room plays a big role, so perhaps mismatches do not happen as often, as everything is "ruined" by your room acoustics? Honestly asking, as I want to learn more.


----------



## IHMEYERS

mammal said:


> This is very interesting. I am not into speakers, but I feel like with those your room plays a big role, so perhaps mismatches do not happen as often, as everything is "ruined" by your room acoustics? Honestly asking, as I want to learn more.


The room does matter.  Mine is not so great but I have learned things about acoustics and have invested $$$ in room correction products that make even a meh room sound pretty good.  My system is very high end.  Would it sound even better in a good room, absolutely but it still kicks ass.


----------



## Sajid Amit

IHMEYERS said:


> Thanks for the response.  How the hell do you accomplish that?  No dealers locally (S. Florida).  I'd hate to invest $5k in a phone and then find out it doesn't work with a pair of $12k amps and then have to buy another amp.
> 
> Now I remember why I got out of high end HP about 5 years ago and just stuck to speaker based systems.  I'm not saying you don't need to be careful about matching speaker amps/speakers, but I've never had a big $ amp/speaker combo that was awful.  Some speakers or amps worked out better than others but there was enough research you could do (at least I could) to ensure everything played nicely together.  Pairing high-end phones / amp combos seem like hit or miss to me.  TOTL headphone only amps are crazy priced compared to the quality you get in a similarly priced speaker amp, WA33 anyone?  You can get a Dagostino stereo amp for $8k that is of much higher build quality.


Agree 100% about stereo amps (Dagostino is a fine example), although I prefer HPs to speakers. Sold most of my speakers which confuses my two channel aficionado friends, lol. I just enjoy the intimacy of HPs more and I like to listen to music when I am working at my desk.


----------



## ken6217

You can make a case for your room being the most important piece of equipment.


----------



## DJJEZ

My Superconductor finally came in. Absolute night and day difference between the stock cable for build quality. I will report back after its properly burnt in of how it compares to the stock cable


----------



## IHMEYERS

I can make the case for both speakers and HP.  I don't listen enough to a system I have more than $150k into because I don't want to disturb the family (I listen LOUD).  That's why I am looking at phones (again).  Would prefer not to have top spend more than $5k all-in because I have spent a lot of money on the system the past few months and wife is no terribly happy about it.  That's why a TOTL HP that works with the amps I have at home would be great.


----------



## dukeskd

IHMEYERS said:


> I can make the case for both speakers and HP.  I don't listen enough to a system I have more than $150k into because I don't want to disturb the family (I listen LOUD).  That's why I am looking at phones (again).  Would prefer not to have top spend more than $5k all-in because I have spent a lot of money on the system the past few months and wife is no terribly happy about it.  That's why a TOTL HP that works with the amps I have at home would be great.


Ah the old problem. I feel like we are eternally stuck in a cycle between speakers and headphones, given the situation with families and so on.


----------



## Frankie D

IHMEYERS said:


> Any opinions on pairing a 35W SET amp (6C33) with either the Abyss or the Susvara phones?  I have a pair of Wall M50s just sitting around gathering dust that I used in a set-up with single driver speakers.  The Walls sounded great driving Tonian speakers and I thought might be good driving headphones.  They are built like brick **ithouses and I thought 35W into 8ohm would translate nicely into a 47 ohm load.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


The power would halve as the impedance doubles (using an ideal relationship). So 17.5 watts into 17 ohms.  8.75 W into 34 ohms.  4.375 W into 68 ohms.  So you should be able to drive the 1266.  You can also buy impedance matching wires or devices if it is noisy.  I have been thinking about this myself, but have not done it.  Others have and recommend it highly as they feel speaker amps are made better and for less money.  Can you try it with an inexpensive HP?  If so, let us know.  Tks.


----------



## paradoxper

IHMEYERS said:


> I can make the case for both speakers and HP.  I don't listen enough to a system I have more than $150k into because I don't want to disturb the family (I listen LOUD).  That's why I am looking at phones (again).  Would prefer not to have top spend more than $5k all-in because I have spent a lot of money on the system the past few months and wife is no terribly happy about it.  That's why a TOTL HP that works with the amps I have at home would be great.


Your amp will likely be fine.


----------



## SuperBurrito

dukeskd said:


> Ah the old problem. I feel like we are eternally stuck in a cycle between speakers and headphones, given the situation with families and so on.


Exactly.  I have a small home and most of my listening is very early in the morning or late at night.  Headphones are the only way.


----------



## canfabulous

SuperBurrito said:


> Exactly.  I have a small home and most of my listening is very early in the morning or late at night.  Headphones are the only way.


Absolutely the same, outside of Home Theatre use.  I really don't use my speakers for music as much these days.


----------



## mitchb

Has anyone compared the JPS SC cable  with the Danacable Lazuli Nirvana cable? I have the Nirvana cable so I don’t have the heart or the funds for a JPS SC cable. Any opinion by experience would be appreciated.
I expect my new Abyss 1266 Phi TC next week.


----------



## Sajid Amit

My new stand.


----------



## cangle

Sajid Amit said:


> My new stand.


That looks great! Did you order this from somewhere or make it yourself?

Also I see you are using the silver dragon moon audio cable. Any thoughts on how this pairs with the 1266? Or if you've already posted them and could link it I would really appreciate it.


----------



## Sajid Amit

cangle said:


> That looks great! Did you order this from somewhere or make it yourself?
> 
> Also I see you are using the silver dragon moon audio cable. Any thoughts on how this pairs with the 1266? Or if you've already posted them and could link it I would really appreciate it.


Thanks! Commissioned it to a carpenter I know. Was his first test before I commission him a new study table, lol.

The silver dragon is fine. I prefer it to the stock. Slightly more refined across the frequency spectrum. It’s worth a look if you don’t want to spring for the SC.


----------



## cangle

So headphone auditions in Amsterdam has the 1266 ROOMS stand in stock https://www.headphoneauditions.nl/product/haa-abyss-stand/ or at least the owner is about to receive 20 units. I emailed him, Stefan, at stefan@headphoneauditions.nl, to request one of the 20 units. They don't normally ship to the US if that's where you're from but you can ask and he will take care of it for you. Total price is 349 euros (including shipping) which was a bit over 400 usd for me. It's a lot but it's the best stand I've seen for the 1266. Hopefully other's in this thread can take advantage of this if they've been waiting to get one of these.


----------



## cangle

Sajid Amit said:


> The silver dragon is fine. I prefer it to the stock. Slightly more refined across the frequency spectrum. It’s worth a look if you don’t want to spring for the SC.


Good to know it's definitely something I've been interested in. I was trying to get a Vykari cable from Norne but the silver supply issues worldwide means that there is a long wait just for him to start making one for you. So I've been looking elsewhere. Probably will pick up a copper cable from Norne but am waiting to hear if they are able to make those. If not I may end up with the Moon Audio cable as the ergonomics of the stock cable are not the best.


----------



## Gadget67

cangle said:


> Good to know it's definitely something I've been interested in. I was trying to get a Vykari cable from Norne but the silver supply issues worldwide means that there is a long wait just for him to start making one for you. So I've been looking elsewhere. Probably will pick up a copper cable from Norne but am waiting to hear if they are able to make those. If not I may end up with the Moon Audio cable as the ergonomics of the stock cable are not the best.


Someone else in this thread suggested this cable wrap from Amazon to deal with the dual cable issue.  It doesn’t especially bother me so I haven’t tried this solution.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FW5H57B/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_7?smid=A2N7NRZ9X3BHHN&psc=1

I’ve also used my Moon Audio Silver Dragon with converters with the 1266 but I think the Superconductor is a better fit IMHO.  It’s most certainly a great choice considering the huge price difference.  My Superconductor cable is now permanently attached to the 1266.


----------



## audiowreck

Hello.  Newish to this forum.  I'm in the market for my next headphone.  I've decided on the 1266.  Has anyone paired it with a Burson Conductor 3X?  If so I'm curious if the Burson has enough power for the Abyss.  Also if sonically if they have a synergy together.  Thank you and I look forward to any responses.


----------



## vonBaron

Yes, me. Enough power? Yes! Good synergy? No!


----------



## Gadget67 (Aug 12, 2021)

audiowreck said:


> Hello.  Newish to this forum.  I'm in the market for my next headphone.  I've decided on the 1266.  Has anyone paired it with a Burson Conductor 3X?  If so I'm curious if the Burson has enough power for the Abyss.  Also if sonically if they have a synergy together.  Thank you and I look forward to any responses.


Joe (Abyss) made this post:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-9669900

Seems like a good endorsement to me.  It’s an old post, so take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## audiowreck (Aug 12, 2021)

vonBaron said:


> Yes, me. Enough power? Yes! Good synergy? No!


Thank you for the response.  As for synergy,  what don't you like about the pairing?


----------



## vonBaron

The bass had poor control, the midrange was thin and cold and the highs too sharp. Only the soundstage was very good.


----------



## ahossam

cangle said:


> So headphone auditions in Amsterdam has the 1266 ROOMS stand in stock https://www.headphoneauditions.nl/product/haa-abyss-stand/ or at least the owner is about to receive 20 units. I emailed him, Stefan, at stefan@headphoneauditions.nl, to request one of the 20 units. They don't normally ship to the US if that's where you're from but you can ask and he will take care of it for you. Total price is 349 euros (including shipping) which was a bit over 400 usd for me. It's a lot but it's the best stand I've seen for the 1266. Hopefully other's in this thread can take advantage of this if they've been waiting to get one of these.



I've place my order with him yesterday, expensive but hope it's worth it.


----------



## jlbrach

cangle said:


> So headphone auditions in Amsterdam has the 1266 ROOMS stand in stock https://www.headphoneauditions.nl/product/haa-abyss-stand/ or at least the owner is about to receive 20 units. I emailed him, Stefan, at stefan@headphoneauditions.nl, to request one of the 20 units. They don't normally ship to the US if that's where you're from but you can ask and he will take care of it for you. Total price is 349 euros (including shipping) which was a bit over 400 usd for me. It's a lot but it's the best stand I've seen for the 1266. Hopefully other's in this thread can take advantage of this if they've been waiting to get one of these.


I had mine shipped to the US without any issue


----------



## jlbrach

Gadget67 said:


> Joe (Abyss) made this post:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-9669900
> 
> Seems like a good endorsement to me.  It’s an old post, so take it with a grain of salt.


8 yrs ago lol


----------



## Gadget67

jlbrach said:


> 8 yrs ago lol


Seems like yesterday!


----------



## audiowreck

vonBaron said:


> The bass had poor control, the midrange was thin and cold and the highs too sharp. Only the soundstage was very good.


Interesting.  So maybe I should look in a different direction for headphones.  Not sure what to do now.


----------



## MatW

audiowreck said:


> Interesting.  So maybe I should look in a different direction for headphones.  Not sure what to do now.


The Abyss TC is the way to go. The chain should support the headphone, not the other way around..😊.


----------



## vonBaron

audiowreck said:


> Interesting.  So maybe I should look in a different direction for headphones.  Not sure what to do now.


Try Violectric V590


----------



## audiowreck

vonBaron said:


> Try Violectric V590


I don't mind the sound of the Burson.  Sure there's probably better.  Just looking for a headphone with great sonics.


----------



## audiowreck

MatW said:


> The Abyss TC is the way to go. The chain should support the headphone, not the other way around..😊.


I never thought of it that way!  Makes total sense.  Thanks for that MatW!


----------



## MatW

audiowreck said:


> I never thought of it that way!  Makes total sense.  Thanks for that MatW!


Have you heard the TC? For me, it is the best headphone money can buy, but you have to be able to deal with weight and fit. If those are OK for you, I'd look for an amp that can drive it. The Burson may be fine for a while. I used a THX 789 initially. Sure, not the level required, but powerful enough, and allowed me to enjoy the TC while I saved money for a good amp.


----------



## audiowreck

MatW said:


> Have you heard the TC? For me, it is the best headphone money can buy, but you have to be able to deal with weight and fit. If those are OK for you, I'd look for an amp that can drive it. The Burson may be fine for a while. I used a THX 789 initially. Sure, not the level required, but powerful enough, and allowed me to enjoy the TC while I saved money for a good amp.


I don't think I'll mind the weight.  I did have at one point the Hedd Headphone and while I did like it's sonics I couldn't get passed its weight and headband.  Mind you it's in the 700 gram territory which I believe the 1266 isn't.  The suspension band on the TC also looks like it'd be pretty comfortable.  My only issue with the design is that the band can't slide up and down. Maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## MatW

audiowreck said:


> I don't think I'll mind the weight.  I did have at one point the Hedd Headphone and while I did like it's sonics I couldn't get passed its weight and headband.  Mind you it's in the 700 gram territory which I believe the 1266 isn't.  The suspension band on the TC also looks like it'd be pretty comfortable.  My only issue with the design is that the band can't slide up and down. Maybe I'm wrong.


I don't find the weight easily online right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's in same ballpark as the Hedd..

The new headband is comfortable indeed. Vertical adjustment is through extension of the headband, and by changing out the O rings if needed.


----------



## audiowreck

MatW said:


> I don't find the weight easily online right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's in same ballpark as the Hedd..
> 
> The new headband is comfortable indeed. Vertical adjustment is through extension of the headband, and by changing out the O rings if needed.


Does it come with different length O-rings?  If so that's pretty smart.  They thought of everything.


----------



## MatW

audiowreck said:


> Does it come with different length O-rings?  If so that's pretty smart.  They thought of everything.


Uhh... No. That would be the smart thing to do, but unfortunately they don't. Most folks in the US order some from Amazon. I have a few spare sets left that I can mail out to who needs them, but I'm in Europe.


----------



## audiowreck

MatW said:


> Uhh... No. That would be the smart thing to do, but unfortunately they don't. Most folks in the US order some from Amazon. I have a few spare sets left that I can mail out to who needs them, but I'm in Europe.


What?  Six grand for a headphone and they don't include different sized o-rings for different head sizes?  That seems odd.


----------



## SuperBurrito

audiowreck said:


> What?  Six grand for a headphone and they don't include different sized o-rings for different head sizes?  That seems odd.


That's what a lot of us have been saying.  I'm now on my 4th iteration of o-ring sizes (currently using size 217) and have installed 2 Dakoni nuggets, one inch from each side of the strap.  Tried it out for the first time this morning, and it's an improvement for sure.  Detailed review later.

Abyss really needs to make a better headband system.  It's silly that the only way to adjust the length is by changing o-rings.  How about the strap being adjustable using velcro, buckles, etc?  Or making the attachment point on the frame adjustable up/down?


----------



## cangle (Aug 12, 2021)

audiowreck said:


> I don't think I'll mind the weight.  I did have at one point the Hedd Headphone and while I did like it's sonics I couldn't get passed its weight and headband.  Mind you it's in the 700 gram territory which I believe the 1266 isn't.  The suspension band on the TC also looks like it'd be pretty comfortable.  My only issue with the design is that the band can't slide up and down. Maybe I'm wrong.


I had concerns about the vertical adjustment too before I received mine a couple of months ago. I thought with a rather tall head or large distance between my ears and the top of my head that I would have trouble with fit. So, I ordered some o-rings off Amazon to try different sizes. When they arrived I switched to size 217 or 218 o-rings. These were a good fit in the non-stretched stock form but once they stretched a bit it was too big for me. I ended up going down a size each day until I found something that was comfortable which was the stock size of 213. While I was trying different o-rings I was also getting used to how the headband adjustment works and how that relates to how much vertical adjustment out of the o-rings you get (The less width the headband has the more vertical adjustment and the more width it has the less vertical adjustment you can make). Just want to share that I believe the headband system is fine once you get used to it. I have sufficient vertical adjustment and find the suspension strap to work well for me as the weight has never bothered me.

I would recommend ordering some o-rings though before the headphones arrive just to make sure that you can accommodate for your head size if needed.


----------



## audiowreck

SuperBurrito said:


> That's what a lot of us have been saying.  I'm now on my 4th iteration of o-ring sizes (currently using size 217) and have installed 2 Dakoni nuggets, one inch from each side of the strap.  Tried it out for the first time this morning, and it's an improvement for sure.  Detailed review later.
> 
> Abyss really needs to make a better headband system.  It's silly that the only way to adjust the length is by changing o-rings.  How about the strap being adjustable using velcro, buckles, etc?  Or making the attachment point on the frame adjustable up/down?


Totally agree.  If I'm gonna pay 6 grand for a headphone it'd better have all its base's covered.  Even the Susvara has an adjustable headband.  I don't mind getting different sized o-rings but come on.  It's a six thousand dollar headphone.


----------



## audiowreck

cangle said:


> I had concerns about the vertical adjustment too before I received mine a couple of months ago. I thought with a rather tall head or large distance between my ears and the top of my head that I would have trouble with fit. So, I ordered some o-rings off Amazon to try different sizes. When they arrived I switched to size 217 or 218 o-rings. These were a good fit in the non-stretched stock form but once they stretched a bit it was too big for me. I ended going down a size and ended back up on the stock size of 213. While I was trying different o-rings I was also getting used to how the headband adjustment works and how that relates to how much vertical adjustment out of the o-rings you get (The less width the headband has the more vertical adjustment and the more width it has the less vertical adjustment you can make). Just want to share that I believe the headband system is fine once you get used to it. I have sufficient vertical adjustment and find the suspension strap to work well for me as the weight has never bothered me.
> 
> I would recommend ordering some o-rings though before the headphones arrive just to make sure that you can accommodate for your head size if needed.


Thanks for that.  Makes sense.


----------



## Ciggavelli

One thing that I dislike about the TCs is they make other headphones that are supposed to sound good, sound bad in comparison 

TOTL problems I guess


----------



## ahossam

For me the suspension headband work really well, the stock o ring is a bit tight at first, you just need to stretched it by hanging the headband on the headphone stand for a couples of days. I agreed for the price they should include spare o rings.


----------



## drew911d

Well, dudes.  You might not like it, but the Riviera AIC-10 is an exceptionally awesome amplifier for the Abyss HP.  Quite expensive, but, holy chat!


----------



## drew911d

*I've heard several amps in some headfi meets.  Nothing I've heard there came close to the Riviera.  And I've heard some more that $10k...*


----------



## Ciggavelli

drew911d said:


> Well, dudes.  You might not like it, but the Riviera AIC-10 is an exceptionally awesome amplifier for the Abyss HP.  Quite expensive, but, holy chat!


It is good. I had it for about a month while my WA33 EE JPS was being built. I never tube rolled though, but I kinda wish I had. It’s only 1 tube, so it’s reasonably inexpensive to try out with a wide variety of tubes


----------



## drew911d

Awesome, would Love to hear your impersonations.


----------



## drew911d

To be honest, @Ciggavelli , I've enjoyed your posts very much over the past few years.  Your posts have influenced me a lot.


----------



## drew911d

Damn, my only next comparison I'm diying to try is the Riviera AIC 10 vs the WA 33 EE JPS.


----------



## mammal

drew911d said:


> Well, dudes.  You might not like it, but the Riviera AIC-10 is an exceptionally awesome amplifier for the Abyss HP.  Quite expensive, but, holy chat!


Also own AIC-10 and love it. I don't think it is as clean sounding amplifier as Viva Egoista 845, and if I didn't have already good integrated solid state amplifier that comes 90% to Egoista, I think I wouldn't get Riviera. AIC-10 adds the necessary coloration I wanted for 1266 mids, makes it sound better than Susvara or Valkyria, which both excell in mids. It even makes it dead close to HE-1 in mids. This being said, I wouldn't recommend AIC-10 blindly to others, as I don't think you are getting the best out of 1266 for EDM that way. I haven't tube rolled yet though, so let's see how that changes things.


----------



## NOMOS

shofilm said:


> Hello.
> 
> Can some owners of the orignal 1266 please send me their EQ settings?
> 
> ...


If you want to try these settings 😉


----------



## Frankie D

mammal said:


> Also own AIC-10 and love it. I don't think it is as clean sounding amplifier as Viva Egoista 845, and if I didn't have already good integrated solid state amplifier that comes 90% to Egoista, I think I wouldn't get Riviera. AIC-10 adds the necessary coloration I wanted for 1266 mids, makes it sound better than Susvara or Valkyria, which both excell in mids. It even makes it dead close to HE-1 in mids. This being said, I wouldn't recommend AIC-10 blindly to others, as I don't think you are getting the best out of 1266 for EDM that way. I haven't tube rolled yet though, so let's see how that changes things.


How often do you have to bias the tubes on the Riviera and is it easy?  Tks.


----------



## mammal

Frankie D said:


> How often do you have to bias the tubes on the Riviera and is it easy?  Tks.


As far as I know you don't need to bias tubes on Viva Audio, Riviera nor Woo Audio tube amplifiers, but correct me someone if I am wrong.


----------



## spotforscott

mammal said:


> Also own AIC-10 and love it. I don't think it is as clean sounding amplifier as Viva Egoista 845, and if I didn't have already good integrated solid state amplifier that comes 90% to Egoista, I think I wouldn't get Riviera. AIC-10 adds the necessary coloration I wanted for 1266 mids, makes it sound better than Susvara or Valkyria, which both excell in mids. It even makes it dead close to HE-1 in mids. This being said, I wouldn't recommend AIC-10 blindly to others, as I don't think you are getting the best out of 1266 for EDM that way. I haven't tube rolled yet though, so let's see how that changes things.


Just to add to the discussion here and echo what was said earlier about how we all hear differently - so important you listen for yourself.

I own the TC (powered by AIC-10, Valkyria (powered directly from DAVE) and Sr1a (powered by JotR) and for my listening preferences (acoustic - string and piano, jazz, 70's rock, blues and female vocal), the best combo is the Valkyria directly out of the DAVE. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE what the AIC-10 does for the TC but it's strengths are more with other genres. I find the timber more natural through the V and SR1a. Only reason, I prefer the V to the SR1a is that it adds a lot of weight and not just in the bottom, everything - I love the way you really "feel" the music with the V. 

Anyways, I fully recognize why everyone really likes the TC (particularly with the AIC-10) but there is no "best headphone" as we do all hear different and have different music preferences.


----------



## mammal

spotforscott said:


> Just to add to the discussion here and echo what was said earlier about how we all hear differently - so important you listen for yourself.
> 
> I own the TC (powered by AIC-10, Valkyria (powered directly from DAVE) and Sr1a (powered by JotR) and for my listening preferences (acoustic - string and piano, jazz, 70's rock, blues and female vocal), the best combo is the Valkyria directly out of the DAVE. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE what the AIC-10 does for the TC but it's strengths are more with other genres. I find the timber more natural through the V and SR1a. Only reason, I prefer the V to the SR1a is that it adds a lot of weight and not just in the bottom, everything - I love the way you really "feel" the music with the V.
> 
> Anyways, I fully recognize why everyone really likes the TC (particularly with the AIC-10) but there is no "best headphone" as we do all hear different and have different music preferences.


I couldn't agree more. If I was listening to the type of music you are, Valkyria would really work well. I haven't had a chance to listen to SR1a, have that planned for end of August though. I expect SR1a to present itself more with more air, compared to Valkyria which is more "meaty". Have you had a chance to compare Valkyria to Susvara, would be interested in reading your impressions on that front.


----------



## spotforscott

mammal said:


> I couldn't agree more. If I was listening to the type of music you are, Valkyria would really work well. I haven't had a chance to listen to SR1a, have that planned for end of August though. I expect SR1a to present itself more with more air, compared to Valkyria which is more "meaty". Have you had a chance to compare Valkyria to Susvara, would be interested in reading your impressions on that front.


No, I haven't had the pleasure of listening to the Susvara. Maybe one day...


----------



## Frankie D

mammal said:


> As far as I know you don't need to bias tubes on Viva Audio, Riviera nor Woo Audio tube amplifiers, but correct me someone if I am wrong.


I know it is not needed on Viva. I was not aware that was the case on the Riviera as well. Tks.


----------



## rmsanger

audiowreck said:


> Hello.  Newish to this forum.  I'm in the market for my next headphone.  I've decided on the 1266.  Has anyone paired it with a Burson Conductor 3X?  If so I'm curious if the Burson has enough power for the Abyss.  Also if sonically if they have a synergy together.  Thank you and I look forward to any responses.



I went with the Soloist 3XP and found it a great pairing with my Phi TC and I much prefer it to the Conductor 3XP which I had in house ~ 2weeks.   Burson makes a far better headphone amp stage than dac implementation (IMO).   I've rolled the op amps and found the Sparkos duals to be better than either Vivids or V6 Classics (again IMO).  The only thing I'm not considering is looking at their upgraded power supply and perhaps using the Soloist in power amp mode and another amp with volume control.

Is it end game (no) but it's far better than the mountain of MidFi amps I went through previously.


----------



## mitchb

I got my Abyss 1266 Phi TC and they sound good with my Auralic Taurus Mk2. I wait with anticipation my Niimbus US 5 Pro amp. So far so good.


----------



## vonBaron

The Niimbus is way better.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> One thing that I dislike about the TCs is they make other headphones that are supposed to sound good, sound bad in comparison
> 
> TOTL problems I guess


Outside of SR1a even with stats this is so true. And it is so satisfying.


----------



## littlej0e (Aug 14, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> Outside of SR1a even with stats this is so true. And it is so satisfying.


This really is true. So true that I ended up selling my SR1as after getting the TCs (just like a friend of mine predicted I would). Even though the SR1as were better than the TCs at what they were good at, nothing I've heard can match the all around presentation of the TCs. Also, with the right setup and system tweaks you can get similar, but certainly not equal, SR1a-like performance out of the TCs for acoustic, classical, and jazz. The Abyss folks really did create something quite special with this headphone.


----------



## paradoxper

littlej0e said:


> This really is true. So true that I ended up selling my SR1as after getting the TCs (just like a friend of mine predicted I would). Even though the SR1as were better than the TCs at what they were good at, nothing I've heard can match the all around presentation of the TCs. Also, with the right setup and system tweaks you can get similar, but certainly not equal, SR1a-like performance out of the TCs for acoustic, classical, and jazz. The Abyss folks really did create something quite special with this headphone.


Tell me about it. I built a custom and not cheap direct-drive amplifier for the SR1a. I definitely haven't listened to the SR1a in well over a month. No desire. 

The LCD-R did last, like, 2.5 hours.

I'm a TC bitch.

Shrugs.


----------



## MrCypruz

paradoxper said:


> I'm a TC bitch.


Hahaha You’re not alone!


----------



## Drewligarchy

Listen to this on your Abyss (especially if you have a Wa33)



Whole album is good, but especially this song.


----------



## MrCypruz

littlej0e said:


> So true that I ended up selling my SR1as after getting the TC


Never do instant A/B comparisons coming from 1266 TC to any other headphones. You might end up selling your entire headphone collection and keep the TC only. That’s how excellent and dangerous to our collections they’re are!


----------



## littlej0e (Aug 14, 2021)

MrCypruz said:


> Never do instant A/B comparisons coming from 1266 TC to any other headphones. You might end up selling your entire headphone collection and keep the TC only. That’s how excellent and dangerous to our collections they’re are!


Agreed. Interestingly, I had the SR1as for months before I received the TCs and my first impression was, "wow...these sound much more veiled and low leaning compared to the SR1as". But in reality, that wasn't true at all. The SR1as just present the mids and highs more warmly and clearly with much more emphasis than the lows. After I gave my ears + brain a couple of days to adjust, the SR1as sounded "incomplete" and unbalanced by comparison. I just couldn't go back.



paradoxper said:


> Tell me about it. I built a custom and not cheap direct-drive amplifier for the SR1a. I definitely haven't listened to the SR1a in well over a month. No desire.
> 
> The LCD-R did last, like, 2.5 hours.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear about you graveyard-ing your SR1as and custom amp - haha. That's what I hate about this hobby. Tastes change, tech changes, FOMO, "upgrade" itch, tweak fever, etc., etc. They all lend themselves to expensive and/or time consuming mistakes. I'm still fairly new to this hobby and I've already made so many...

Regardless though, I'm with you: littlej0e <--------- 100% TC bitch boi


----------



## Drewligarchy

Let's discover some music that sounds really good on the Abyss TC. In no particular order, here are 12 tracks I'm listening to right now. These are a combination of music I like, well recorded material, and things that sound particularly good on the TC, in no particular order. You can assume that I like the entire album if I'm listing the track. Would love to hear what you guys are listening to. Feel free to contribute as much or as little as you want.

Artist: Donald Fagen
Album: Morph The Cat
Track: Brite Nitegown

Artist: Beck
Album: Mutations
Track: Canceled Check

Artist: Rickie Lee Jones
Album: The Evening Of My Best Day
Track: Bitchenostrophy

Artist: Phish
Album: Story Of The Ghost
Track: Guyute

Artist: Batik
Album: The Old Man And The Sea
Track: The Old Man

Artist: Spiritualized
Album: Ladies and Gentleman We Are Floating In Space
Track: I think I'm In Love

Artist: Al Di Meola
Album: Elysium
Track: Adour

Artist: Michael Giacchino
Album: Star Terk: Into Darkness
Track: Logos / Pranking The Natives

Artist: Patricia Barber
Album: Companion
Track: Like JT

Artist: Alan Silvestri
Album: Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey - Volume 2
Track: Family Tree

Artist: Carmen Gomes
Album: Carmen Gomes Sings The Blues
Track: Mary Ann

Artist: Daft Punk
Album: Random Access Memories
Track: Motherboard


----------



## Homrsimson

Now that I’ve sold my Danacable package, very envious to finally to get a superconductor....


----------



## mitchb

What was your Danacable package?


----------



## paradoxper

littlej0e said:


> Agreed. Interestingly, I had the SR1as for months before I received the TCs and my first impression was, "wow...these sound much more veiled and low leaning compared to the SR1as". But in reality, that wasn't true at all. The SR1as just present the mids and highs more warmly and clearly with much more emphasis than the lows. After I gave my ears + brain a couple of days to adjust, the SR1as sounded "incomplete" and unbalanced by comparison. I just couldn't go back.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't feel too bad for me. I don't think I'll ever sell the SR1a as it serves as a great reference tool. I am looking forward to the RAAL C, I just haven't decided to build another amp for it or not.

But also @ken6217 is baiting me to get the Trafomatic Full Measure amplifier. LOL

This small hobby is ridiculously absurd.


----------



## Homrsimson

mitchb said:


> What was your Danacable package?


Check my sold listings. It was a utopia Danacable with a bunch of adapters. I don’t have a utopia anymore so felt silly to keep


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Don't feel too bad for me. I don't think I'll ever sell the SR1a as it serves as a great reference tool. I am looking forward to the RAAL C, I just haven't decided to build another amp for it or not.
> 
> But also @ken6217 is baiting me to get the Trafomatic Full Measure amplifier. LOL
> 
> This small hobby is ridiculously absurd.


I won’t do that. Then I’ll be following you down that path. LOL.


----------



## Slim1970

MrCypruz said:


> Never do instant A/B comparisons coming from 1266 TC to any other headphones. You might end up selling your entire headphone collection and keep the TC only. That’s how excellent and dangerous to our collections they’re are!


I’ve been saying this all along. Listening to any headphone after listening to the TC’s they sound anemic and lacking. You really have to let your ears rest before going back to listening to other headphones.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> I won’t do that. Then I’ll be following you down that path. LOL.


No, no, you first! Thank you. After you, sir.


----------



## ufospls2 (Aug 14, 2021)

Here are three songs I'm really enjoying lately with the TCs. The whole album is good, but these three stand out. Black Rainbow is a bit more of a conventional structure for an electronica song, but White Picket Fence and Strangers are two of the most innovative songs I've heard in the Genre for a good while.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> No, no, you first! Thank you. After you, sir.


I'm already two amps in because of you.


----------



## ken6217

ufospls2 said:


> Here are three songs I'm really enjoying lately with the TCs. The whole album is good, but these three stand out. Black Rainbow is a bit more of a conventional structure for an electronica song, but White Picket Fence and Strangers are two of the most innovative songs I've heard in the Genre for a good while.



Well the good news is, it's not rap.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> I'm already two amps in because of you.


Oh, we can go deeper. It will hurt us both.

Where is John when you need a scapegoat.


----------



## ken6217

As Roberto Duran once said...... No Mas.

John is at Home Depot looking for solder.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> As Roberto Duran once said...... No Mas.
> 
> John is at Home Depot looking for solder.


Is he doing mock CFA3 builds. LOL

Might as well tell Miroslav John has this whole hybrid thing..in the bag...


----------



## cangle

ken6217 said:


> Well the good news is, it's not rap.


Here's some 1266 approved rap:











I don't like new rap so much but this stuff I enjoy. The Snoop Dogg album is a bit vulgar so a warning in case that's not something you like.


----------



## jlbrach

I know people like rap and hey god bless but as one who listens mostly to jazz and blues and classic rock I find it hard to imagine spending tons of money to listen to rap but again I know many do and enjoy it


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> I know people like rap and hey god bless but as one who listens mostly to jazz and blues and classic rock I find it hard to imagine spending tons of money to listen to rap but again I know many do and enjoy it


You listen to the same music I do.


----------



## cangle

jlbrach said:


> I know people like rap and hey god bless but as one who listens mostly to jazz and blues and classic rock I find it hard to imagine spending tons of money to listen to rap but again I know many do and enjoy it


Some of the rap recordings are good but a lot are not so great. Most of my listening time goes to electronic, jazz, and rock which I think benefits from a nice headphone setup. But I like exploring other genres and rap is one I have discovered more recently


----------



## jlbrach

cangle said:


> Some of the rap recordings are good but a lot are not so great. Most of my listening time goes to electronic, jazz, and rock which I think benefits from a nice headphone setup. But I like exploring other genres and rap is one I have discovered more recently


enjoy, please understand I mean no disrespect


----------



## cangle

jlbrach said:


> enjoy, please understand I mean no disrespect


oh yeah I didn't mind your comment just wanted to explain my interest in rap for an "audiophile" genre


----------



## BassicScience

jlbrach said:


> I know people like rap and hey god bless but as one who listens mostly to jazz and blues and classic rock I find it hard to imagine spending tons of money to listen to rap but again I know many do and enjoy it


I own several rap albums where the production and recording quality are _amazing_. If you don't like the music, that's fine, but they will certainly benefit sonically from being played on a high end audio system.


----------



## jlbrach

as I said, no disrespect intended....


----------



## Ciggavelli

I listen to A LOT of rap out of my TCs.  Not listening to rap with the TCs is a mistake in my opinion.  🤷‍♂️ 

The TCs are perfect with rap.  I'm listening to rap right now out of my TCs.  

They are the perfect pair of headphones for hip-hop.  I love 'em 

And not all rap is vulgar.  That new Nas "Kings Disease II" is a rap album I think anybody could appreciate:


----------



## jlbrach

no need to defend your choices, rap isnt my thing but I certainly dont want anyone thinking I am saying anything else


----------



## Ciggavelli (Aug 14, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> no need to defend your choices, rap isnt my thing but I certainly dont want anyone thinking I am saying anything else


Oh, I'm not defending my choice.  I'm just saying you're missing out  

I'm listening to some local Houston hip hop right now.  It's a "screwed" album.  Heavy bass, slowed down vocals.


----------



## Sajid Amit

I am going to check out these rap albums, lol. I don’t listen to any rap at all either, but I also didn’t listen to edm earlier, but now I do, so…


----------



## endre83

Hi guys, I am considering the complete set right now .
Would a Trafomatic Head 2 with stock tubes be enough for this beast?


----------



## Sajid Amit

Random question: any of you use CD players? 

I have a friend who just got the Hegel Mohican which sounds almost as good as his TT2 but not as good as his Dave when using the Mohican’s internal DAC.

However, purely as a transport, using the Hegel’s digital out, and the Dave as the DAC, it sounded quite fantastic.

I have always avoided collecting CDs since I left speakers, but the Mohican got me wondering, lol. 🤔


----------



## julien-hifi

Hi,
No CDs for me only streaming. 
I actually bought a cd transport some time ago as i still have some cd, but realized i prefer streaming so i sold it back..


----------



## jlbrach

I had 6000  CD's...over the course of months I downloaded them onto hard drives and ultimately sold them....the convenience was simply too enticing and at this point I am glad I did


----------



## sahmen (Aug 15, 2021)

Well, not to defend listening to rap; just trying to spread some joy... but between rap/hip hop, Jazz, and R&B, there are several overlapping experimental pieces that could be interesting, for the TC? Yes, but also for general listening with any kind of device, including your unadorned ears as well, if one is allowed to mention that on a TC thread...    

These are just some random examples:



Okay, the lyrics on this one might be too ripe for the faint of ears, but i personally find that when I interpret the lyrics as a kind of "comedy," things tend to fall into place:'



These one is for all ears :



And this one too :


----------



## BassicScience (Aug 15, 2021)

Sajid Amit said:


> Random question: any of you use CD players?
> 
> I have a friend who just got the Hegel Mohican which sounds almost as good as his TT2 but not as good as his Dave when using the Mohican’s internal DAC.
> 
> ...


Nowadays I really only purchase CDs that aren't available on Tidal (or have bonus features), and then they get ripped to local storage ASAP. I have an Oppo 203 that I can use to play them prior to the rip. The Oppo is connected to the second optical input of my DAC. Any sonic differences between Oppo/storage/Tidal are within the tolerance of my probably imagining them. YMMV.

EDIT: It sounds like you're essentially considering buying a second DAC (internal to the CD player). I'd only consider that instead of just buying a second standalone DAC if I already had a huge collection of CDs and enjoyed the ritual of playing them... which I don't.


----------



## chief79

Do you guys purchase music digitally? Where’s a good place to purchase high res/lossless music? Thanks!


----------



## sahmen

Do you mean apart from "places" like Qobuz and HDTracks?


----------



## chief79

Unfortunately I don’t get Qobuz in my country. Is HDTracks the go-to source to buy music?

thanks!!


----------



## MrCypruz (Aug 15, 2021)

chief79 said:


> Do you guys purchase music digitally? Where’s a good place to purchase high res/lossless music? Thanks!


Qobuz.com
HDtracks.com
nativedsd.com (if you’re into DSD format).
Chesky.com (mostly Chesky records remastered and produced albums and lots of binaural stuff).

There are several others for Hi-res album but those are my go to Top 4 online stores.

There are also some with specific selections /compilations of Audiophile Test-tracks put together as an “album” which are good to test your setup:
Audiophilemusic.io
Nbrmusic.co


----------



## chief79

MrCypruz said:


> Qobuz.com
> HDtracks.com
> nativedsd.com (if you’re into DSD format).
> Chesky.com (mostly Chesky records remastered and produced albums and lots of binaural stuff).
> ...


Thanks!!


----------



## normie610

chief79 said:


> Do you guys purchase music digitally? Where’s a good place to purchase high res/lossless music? Thanks!





MrCypruz said:


> Qobuz.com
> HDtracks.com
> nativedsd.com (if you’re into DSD format).
> Chesky.com (mostly Chesky records remastered and produced albums and lots of binaural stuff).
> ...



To add to the list above, if you’re into jazz and classical, do have a go at these:

SoundLiaison.com
TRPTK.com
shop.2l.no (2L records)
bluecoastmusic.com
referencerecordings.com


----------



## chief79

normie610 said:


> To add to the list above, if you’re into jazz and classical, do have a go at these:
> 
> SoundLiaison.com
> TRPTK.com
> ...


Thanks!


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> Oh, I'm not defending my choice.  I'm just saying you're missing out
> 
> I'm listening to some local Houston hip hop right now.  It's a "screwed" album.  Heavy bass, slowed down vocals.


As they say, there’s a butt for every seat.


----------



## ahossam (Aug 15, 2021)

chief79 said:


> Unfortunately I don’t get Qobuz in my country. Is HDTracks the go-to source to buy music?
> 
> thanks!!


Qobuz isn't in my country too but it's my primary place to buy digital Hi-res/lossless music, what I like about Qobuz is you can download your purchased music in various different file format. You can sign up using VPN.


----------



## chief79

ahossam said:


> Qobuz isn't in my country too but it's my primary place to buy digital Hi-res/lossless music, what I like about Qobuz is you can download your purchased music in various different file format. You can sign up using VPN.


Thanks, didn’t explore the VPN route. Thanks!


----------



## cangle

normie610 said:


> To add to the list above, if you’re into jazz and classical, do have a go at these:
> 
> SoundLiaison.com
> TRPTK.com
> ...


One more addition is bandcamp. They offer flac and other formats of lossless downloads (It lets you choose after you buy and before you download) which are usually cd quality plus I think buying through bandcamp supports the artist more financially. They may not have a lot of hi-res music but I like bandcamp for discovering new music: https://bandcamp.com/


----------



## chief79

cangle said:


> One more addition is bandcamp. They offer flac and other formats of lossless downloads (It lets you choose after you buy and before you download) which are usually cd quality plus I think buying through bandcamp supports the artist more financially. They may not have a lot of hi-res music but I like bandcamp for discovering new music: https://bandcamp.com/


Thanks, I’ll check it out as well!


----------



## Sajid Amit

sahmen said:


> Well, not to defend listening to rap; just trying to spread some joy... but between rap/hip hop, Jazz, and R&B, there are several overlapping experimental pieces that could be interesting, for the TC? Yes, but also for general listening with any kind of device, including your unadorned ears as well, if one is allowed to mention that on a TC thread...
> 
> These are just some random examples:
> 
> ...



Some good stuff.


----------



## number1sixerfan

sahmen said:


> Well, not to defend listening to rap; just trying to spread some joy... but between rap/hip hop, Jazz, and R&B, there are several overlapping experimental pieces that could be interesting, for the TC? Yes, but also for general listening with any kind of device, including your unadorned ears as well, if one is allowed to mention that on a TC thread...
> 
> These are just some random examples:
> 
> ...




I don't know the others and will check them out, but Masego has some really good Jazz inspired/fusion type music. Tadow is one of his best tracks, really great music for headphone listening.


----------



## paradoxper

endre83 said:


> Hi guys, I am considering the complete set right now .
> Would a Trafomatic Head 2 with stock tubes be enough for this beast?


It will provide enough drive but I surmise it won't be a complete match.


----------



## carboncopy

paradoxper said:


> It will provide enough drive but I surmise it won't be a complete match.


Would be a shame. The Head 2 bested my Pathos Inpol Ear in almost every aspect. It’s a sonic bombshell. But it doesn’t deliver 9W, that’s thrue.


----------



## paradoxper

carboncopy said:


> Would be a shame. The Head 2 bested my Pathos Inpol Ear in almost every aspect. It’s a sonic bombshell. But it doesn’t deliver 9W, that’s thrue.


I'd say try it. Although it is fairly low-powered, it may sound decent. 

And if that does not work, that is why they placed the Primavera in the lineup as their golden headamp.


----------



## jlbrach

chief79 said:


> Do you guys purchase music digitally? Where’s a good place to purchase high res/lossless music? Thanks!


get a qobuz subscription which allows you to buy hi-rez at a discount...I find I can buy hi-rez cheaper than cd quality


----------



## chief79

jlbrach said:


> get a qobuz subscription which allows you to buy hi-rez at a discount...I find I can buy hi-rez cheaper than cd quality


Thanks, I’ll have to figure out a vpn to get a subscription


----------



## No KNOTsense

Can anyone who has a TT2 and 1266 Phi TC combo please confirm if it can portray piano solo without distortion? I briefly owned a used pair of TCs that buzzed/vibrated whenever a pianist played mezzo forte and louder. I tried connecting it via both the 6.3mm and dual XLR connections. Abyss suggested it could have been my TT2 struggling with the transients at such high volumes. None of my other headphones have any problems with piano on the TT2. I returned the pair but since I don't own any external amps, I was never able to rule out the possibility of my TT2 being the culprit.


----------



## dukeskd

No KNOTsense said:


> Can anyone who has a TT2 and 1266 Phi TC combo please confirm if it can portray piano solo without distortion? I briefly owned a used pair of TCs that buzzed/vibrated whenever a pianist played mezzo forte and louder. I tried connecting it via both the 6.3mm and dual XLR connections. Abyss suggested it could have been my TT2 struggling with the transients at such high volumes. None of my other headphones have any problems with piano on the TT2. I returned the pair but since I don't own any external amps, I was never able to rule out the possibility of my TT2 being the culprit.


Sounds like your signal was clipping


----------



## jlbrach

could also be the headphone construction vibrating....something can come loose...


----------



## ra990 (Aug 15, 2021)

No KNOTsense said:


> Can anyone who has a TT2 and 1266 Phi TC combo please confirm if it can portray piano solo without distortion? I briefly owned a used pair of TCs that buzzed/vibrated whenever a pianist played mezzo forte and louder. I tried connecting it via both the 6.3mm and dual XLR connections. Abyss suggested it could have been my TT2 struggling with the transients at such high volumes. None of my other headphones have any problems with piano on the TT2. I returned the pair but since I don't own any external amps, I was never able to rule out the possibility of my TT2 being the culprit.


I replied to you in another thread. I had the same issues and they always blame the source gear, so you won't get anywhere with that. After some insisting, I sent my pairs in and, each time, the issue was confirmed on their end and a replacement was issued. The TT2 is perfectly capable of driving the Abyss and even the Susvara without breaking a sweat. PM me for more details.


----------



## mitchb

My Abyss headphones are incredible. My LCD4 headphones are not being used. The Abyss sound good in every way. I am running them with my Auralic Taurus Mk2 amp while I wait for my new Niimbus amp to arrive. They sound good with the Taurus Mk2 amp.


----------



## Bonddam

My WA5 LE upgraded with my Doge 7 tube DAC is a new experience. I like the WA5 LE with Mundorf caps better then my WA33 Elite. The WA33 doesn't do 2nd order even harmonics due to being balanced. That's what I been told and I hear the difference. I found 33 really only awesome with the 1266 and okay with other headphones. The WA5 all my headphones are awesome though that the LCD 3 is the least impressive on it and has to be used on my Well Audio Dragon. Mike from Woo told me the WA5 is more up my ally and explained the 33 is more for the critical listener. It took longer to set the WA5 with the 1266 I have two 300B I roll and I have roll the drivers accordingly. Then the DACs I went through had good qualities but when the Doge came the journey stopped. Example the Cipher was to light where the Doge just filled everything in and added nothing that would cause fatigue. Currently using the following tubes: EML 300B just normal ones the drivers are psvane CVT181 T mk2 and rectification from Sofia Electric 274B. So this are my feelings this morning listening to some crazy EDM.


----------



## cangle

Bonddam said:


> My WA5 LE upgraded with my Doge 7 tube DAC is a new experience. I like the WA5 LE with Mundorf caps better then my WA33 Elite. The WA33 doesn't do 2nd order even harmonics due to being balanced. That's what I been told and I hear the difference. I found 33 really only awesome with the 1266 and okay with other headphones. The WA5 all my headphones are awesome though that the LCD 3 is the least impressive on it and has to be used on my Well Audio Dragon. Mike from Woo told me the WA5 is more up my ally and explained the 33 is more for the critical listener. It took longer to set the WA5 with the 1266 I have two 300B I roll and I have roll the drivers accordingly. Then the DACs I went through had good qualities but when the Doge came the journey stopped. Example the Cipher was to light where the Doge just filled everything in and added nothing that would cause fatigue. Currently using the following tubes: EML 300B just normal ones the drivers are psvane CVT181 T mk2 and rectification from Sofia Electric 274B. So this are my feelings this morning listening to some crazy EDM.


Sounds like a great pairing. I've just started to look into tubes myself more for the dac at the moment but sounds like they do something to the 1266 that other solid state components can't.

I'm curious, what were all the dacs you went through before settling on the Doge 7?


----------



## Bonddam

No order 
Hugo tt2 
PrimaLuna EVO 100 
Wells Audio Cipher lvl 1 
Holo Audio Cyan, Spring 2 and May both KTE  
Denafrips Ares 2 and Pontus 2 
Mytek Manhattan 2 
XI Audio Sagra
Smsl and Topping had a certain amount


----------



## OceanRanger

Bonddam said:


> No order
> Hugo tt2
> PrimaLuna EVO 100
> Wells Audio Cipher lvl 1
> ...


There is a wealth of DAC knowledge and experience….


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> My WA5 LE upgraded with my Doge 7 tube DAC is a new experience. I like the WA5 LE with Mundorf caps better then my WA33 Elite. The WA33 doesn't do 2nd order even harmonics due to being balanced. That's what I been told and I hear the difference. I found 33 really only awesome with the 1266 and okay with other headphones. The WA5 all my headphones are awesome though that the LCD 3 is the least impressive on it and has to be used on my Well Audio Dragon. Mike from Woo told me the WA5 is more up my ally and explained the 33 is more for the critical listener. It took longer to set the WA5 with the 1266 I have two 300B I roll and I have roll the drivers accordingly. Then the DACs I went through had good qualities but when the Doge came the journey stopped. Example the Cipher was to light where the Doge just filled everything in and added nothing that would cause fatigue. Currently using the following tubes: EML 300B just normal ones the drivers are psvane CVT181 T mk2 and rectification from Sofia Electric 274B. So this are my feelings this morning listening to some crazy EDM.


Critical listener. LOL.

If you’re a half assed listener, just use the WA5. Sounds like sound equipment advice.


----------



## cangle

Bonddam said:


> No order
> Hugo tt2
> PrimaLuna EVO 100
> Wells Audio Cipher lvl 1
> ...


Wow that's a lot. Were there any dacs that stood out to you before getting to the Doge? For myself, the dac at the top of my list is the Lampizator Amber 3 and I'm currently using a Pontus II. I've also heard of the Doge through a youtube reviewer. I wonder how the Amber and Doge compare?


----------



## JLoud

I ran the EML300b mesh in my WA5le and really liked them. However I enjoy my WA33 with the LCD4 more. The Abyss TC, while sounding different on both amps, matched better with the WA33 for me. But as stated personal preference is the deciding factor. Both are fantastic amps.


----------



## Bonddam

cangle said:


> Wow that's a lot. Were there any dacs that stood out to you before getting to the Doge? For myself, the dac at the top of my list is the Lampizator Amber 3 and I'm currently using a Pontus II. I've also heard of the Doge through a youtube reviewer. I wonder how the Amber and Doge compare?


Yes The only two of the top brands lost interest in TT2 and Manhattan 2. If I was going to keep one of the others It would be the May. The Doge doesn't make intense music relaxing and it doesn't make relaxing intense.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Bonddam said:


> My WA5 LE upgraded with my Doge 7 tube DAC is a new experience. I like the WA5 LE with Mundorf caps better then my WA33 Elite. The WA33 doesn't do 2nd order even harmonics due to being balanced. That's what I been told and I hear the difference. I found 33 really only awesome with the 1266 and okay with other headphones. The WA5 all my headphones are awesome though that the LCD 3 is the least impressive on it and has to be used on my Well Audio Dragon. Mike from Woo told me the WA5 is more up my ally and explained the 33 is more for the critical listener. It took longer to set the WA5 with the 1266 I have two 300B I roll and I have roll the drivers accordingly. Then the DACs I went through had good qualities but when the Doge came the journey stopped. Example the Cipher was to light where the Doge just filled everything in and added nothing that would cause fatigue. Currently using the following tubes: EML 300B just normal ones the drivers are psvane CVT181 T mk2 and rectification from Sofia Electric 274B. So this are my feelings this morning listening to some crazy EDM.



With the Wa33 there is some bloom and liquidity I just don't hear on solid state amps. I haven't heard every solid state amp, and I have only heard a few tube amps (for instance, I never heard a SET which I'd really like to). You are correct that the balanced signal cancels out most of the tube 2nd harmonic distortion - but I feel like a push/pull is right for the Abyss in particular. I get some midrange bloom with the Wa33 so it doesn't sound as recessed, and as it's push/pull/balanced - the slam and impact is there too, as is the power. 

That said, I'd love to hear a SET amp on my Abyss and other cans, as I think I'd like it. If you like the WA5 LE, upgraded it, and found the perfect tube complement - your lucky to have found it. I don't think any amp out there comes without some sort of compromise, but what's most important is that you enjoy listening to it. And, remember, Abyss was demoing with the WA5 LE before the Wa33 was around.


----------



## mammal

Drewligarchy said:


> That said, I'd love to hear a SET amp on my Abyss and other cans, as I think I'd like it.


The only SET amp I tried was Viva Egoista 845, which was ultra transparent and sounded like a solid state amplifier. So, if you have a DAC or a DAC/AMP that is too weak for 1266, give Viva a try, I don't think it will add any colouration nor change the sonic characteristics of your DAC. I paired it with my dCS Bartok, and it sounded like the SS amplifier in Bartok, plus some 10% extra performance (in terms of soundstage being more 3D holographics, and lower end being a bit tighter/better controlled). I did not keep the amp, as it was running too hot (even the volume knob was hot to touch), and for 12.5k Eur I expected a bigger jump in performance over SS in Bartok itself.



Drewligarchy said:


> With the Wa33 there is some bloom and liquidity I just don't hear on solid state amps.





Drewligarchy said:


> I get some midrange bloom with the Wa33 so it doesn't sound as recessed


I have not yet had a chance to audition WA33 (neither edition), as they aren't willing to gimme a demo (I try to avoid buying blindly, or at least have an option to return for a restock fee, but shipping is too difficult over seas). But, what you are describing I have achieved with Riviera AIC-10, which is a tube amp hybrid, has one tube to roll, and runs reasonably cool. I am now awaiting delivery of some tubes, but the two I have (Stock and Amperex Bugle Boy) sound VERY different. Stock is as you are describing with your WA33, and it makes 1266 sound better in mids than Susvara (I know, people will hate me for saying this), where as Amperex sounds like Bartok (very transparent and expansive), so if I ever thought of upgrading Bartok to Rossini, this tube I would definitely need to keep, as it works wonders on EMD.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Aug 17, 2021)

mammal said:


> The only SET amp I tried was Viva Egoista 845, which was ultra transparent and sounded like a solid state amplifier. So, if you have a DAC or a DAC/AMP that is too weak for 1266, give Viva a try, I don't think it will add any colouration nor change the sonic characteristics of your DAC. I paired it with my dCS Bartok, and it sounded like the SS amplifier in Bartok, plus some 10% extra performance (in terms of soundstage being more 3D holographics, and lower end being a bit tighter/better controlled). I did not keep the amp, as it was running too hot (even the volume knob was hot to touch), and for 12.5k Eur I expected a bigger jump in performance over SS in Bartok itself.
> 
> 
> 
> I have not yet had a chance to audition WA33 (neither edition), as they aren't willing to gimme a demo (I try to avoid buying blindly, or at least have an option to return for a restock fee, but shipping is too difficult over seas). But, what you are describing I have achieved with Riviera AIC-10, which is a tube amp hybrid, has one tube to roll, and runs reasonably cool. I am now awaiting delivery of some tubes, but the two I have (Stock and Amperex Bugle Boy) sound VERY different. Stock is as you are describing with your WA33, and it makes 1266 sound better in mids than Susvara (I know, people will hate me for saying this), where as Amperex sounds like Bartok (very transparent and expansive), so if I ever thought of upgrading Bartok to Rossini, this tube I would definitely need to keep, as it works wonders on EMD.



If I try a SET amp, though, I think that I _do _want a coloration - because the Wa33 is already very SS like. Not getting rid of the Wa33 any time soon, but would be nice to have another flavor. That said, I don't know any SET's, outside of the Viva Egoista (and the Wa5), that has enough power to do the Abyss/Susvara justice - unless I went to speaker amps (which I may try eventually). Maybe something from ampsandsound? The DNA stuff is exceptional, but I have heard that it doesn't really work with the Abyss/Susvara, and I have no way to demo.

@Ciggavelli had Wa33 SE, has Wa33 Elite JPS - and had the AIC-10 on demo I believe while waiting for his elite to be built - he is probably best able to tell you the differences between the Riviera and the 33 (from what I remember, they are similar sounding).

I am also very interested in the Bakoon Amp 13r for the Abyss/Susvara because I am intrigued by zero feedback solid state. You can't get it anywhere now though, because they are rebranding as Enleum and the replacement for the 13r won't be available until at least September.


----------



## MasonStorm

Drewligarchy said:


> If I try a SET amp, though, I think that I _do _want a coloration - because the Wa33 is already very SS like. Not getting rid of the Wa33 any time soon, but would be nice to have another flavor. That said, I don't know any SET's, outside of the Viva Egoista (and the Wa5), that has enough power to do the Abyss/Susvara justice - unless I went to speaker amps (which I may try eventually). Maybe something from ampsandsound? The DNA stuff is exceptional, but I have heard that it doesn't really work with the Abyss/Susvara, and I have no way to demo.
> 
> @Ciggavelli had Wa33 SE, has Wa33 Elite JPS - and had the AIC-10 on demo I believe while waiting for his elite to be built - he is probably best able to tell you the differences between the Riviera and the 33 (from what I remember, they are similar sounding).
> 
> I am also very interested in the Bakoon Amp 13r for the Abyss/Susvara because I am intrigued by zero feedback solid state. You can't get it anywhere now though, because they are rebranding as Enleum and the replacement for the 13r won't be available until at least September.


I can recommend the Woo WA-234 monoblocks, which are a SET design.  The ability to use different models of power tubes has proven to be immense fun.  Some of my very favorites are the really ancient 45’s, going all the way back to the beginnings:  currently I’m using a (circa 1929) pair of Visseaux a245’s, which have been unbelievably lush, rich and delicious in tone, while delivering intoxicating bass extension and slam.  While I don’t see how I would be able to demo the Sennheiser HE-1 without a trip to California, I doubt it would beat this!


----------



## Ciggavelli (Aug 17, 2021)

Drewligarchy said:


> If I try a SET amp, though, I think that I _do _want a coloration - because the Wa33 is already very SS like. Not getting rid of the Wa33 any time soon, but would be nice to have another flavor. That said, I don't know any SET's, outside of the Viva Egoista (and the Wa5), that has enough power to do the Abyss/Susvara justice - unless I went to speaker amps (which I may try eventually). Maybe something from ampsandsound? The DNA stuff is exceptional, but I have heard that it doesn't really work with the Abyss/Susvara, and I have no way to demo.
> 
> @Ciggavelli had Wa33 SE, has Wa33 Elite JPS - and had the AIC-10 on demo I believe while waiting for his elite to be built - he is probably best able to tell you the differences between the Riviera and the 33 (from what I remember, they are similar sounding).
> 
> I am also very interested in the Bakoon Amp 13r for the Abyss/Susvara because I am intrigued by zero feedback solid state. You can't get it anywhere now though, because they are rebranding as Enleum and the replacement for the 13r won't be available until at least September.


Yes, that is correct. I had the WA33 standard, sold it for the WA33 EE JPS, and I do a lot of business with my dealer so he let me borrow the AIC-10 while the WA33 EE JPS was being built.

It’s been a while since I’ve heard the AIC-10, but I’ll try to explain what I remember.

Yes, the AIC-10 and WA33 have a similar sound. The AIC-10 sounds a little more solid state and I think might hit a tiny bit harder than the WA33. The WA33 Elite JPS had the better soundstage and imaging in my mind.

One thing I dinged the AIC-10 on was that it got a bit muddy with extremely fast passages (I’m talking grindcore speed).  That never happened with either WA33.

I have been talking with one member on here (he probably wouldn’t mind me mentioning his screen name, but I want to respect his privacy.  He can jump in if he wants).  He says he has been able to eliminate the muddiness by tube rolling. I’m not sure what tube he’s using. But, if a tube can fix the muddiness flaw, the AIC-10 will be pushed to higher levels and make the decision between the WA33 EE and AIC-10 harder to make. I think anybody would be happy with either amp, but I love my WA33 EE JPS and wouldn’t trade it in for any other amp.

The WA33 EE JPS also can be used as a preamp (I use it with my HSA-1b and SR1as). The AIC-10 can’t. Also there are many more options for tubes with the WA33. The AIC-10 has speaker outputs in the back, while the WA33 does not. So, one might prefer an amp over the other based upon these added features as well.


----------



## mammal

Ciggavelli said:


> I have been talking with one member on here (he probably wouldn’t mind me mentioning his screen name, but I want to respect his privacy. He can jump in if he wants). He says he has been able to eliminate the muddiness by tube rolling.


Aaaand that would be me. 



Ciggavelli said:


> I’m not sure what tube he’s using. But, if a tube can fix the muddiness flaw, the AIC-10 will be pushed to higher levels and make the decision between the WA33 EE and AIC-10 harder to make.


The tube I am referring to with "fixing the muddiness" is Amperex Bugle Boy, price NIB is around $150. Compared to the stock tube, it transforms AIC-10 significantly, so much so, that if I was testing AIC-10 with that tube installed, I would NOT have purchased it, as it would sound too close to Bartok's integrated solid state amplifier. Please note, that this is meant as a compliment, as Bartok works wonders on EDM, pairing it with 1266, means fast, expansive, holographic and punchy. Unfortunately, as many owners know, mids can be cold and recessed, which may work less for other genres of music (that live in the mids). People have been able to solve it by getting a second pair of headphones, like Susvara, HE-1 or Shangri-la Sr, and I have worked around mids issue by adding AIC-10, which with its stock tube is relaxing, forgiving, the soundstage is more intimate in comparison, BUT mids are forward, lush, liquid and warm. This comes at a price of slowed down note decay and a bit of mudiness for fast paced music. I was genuinely surprised how well AIC-10 reacted to a tube change, and since it made my amp sound like Bartok (again, a positive), I could now consider upgrading Bartok to Rossini, which does not have an integrated amplifier, which I was avoiding, as Bartok sounded the best for EDM from anything I have ever heard. I still have 4 more tubes coming (Mullard CV491, Fivre ECC82, La Radiotechnique 12AU7WA, and Brimar M8136) and I will report on how they sound later. Some other Riviera owners are telling me that these tubes DO make a big difference, all while not breaking my wallet, which is a huge plus.



Ciggavelli said:


> The WA33 EE JPS also can be used as a preamp (I use it with my HSA-1b and SR1as). The AIC-10 can’t. Also there are many more options for tubes with the WA33. The AIC-10 has speaker outputs in the back, while the WA33 does not. So, one might prefer an amp over the other based upon these added features as well.


I agree, one has to look at features and usability as well. I don't know how hot WA33 runs, but Viva Egoista 845 was soo hot that it was difficult to touch the volume knob. Also, Viva sounded more like Bartok, hence I could assume it sounds closer to Amperex tube, than the stock on Riviera. What Viva had, was a preamp bypass input, where one could use it as a power amplifier (this is only possible with AFC-10, a different Riviera amp). Both Viva and Riviera are single ended amps, and even though they latest versions offer a balanced input, one of the pins is simply ignored. This means, that if you know that your DAC sounds better on Balanced output (some really do), then I suggest looking at WA33 instead. As @Ciggavelli said, WA33 can function as a preamp, which is a really cool feature and I would love a tube buffer on other setups. Riviera can drive efficient speakers, which is a plus, and if you were FORCED to use one of these 3 amplifiers for SR1a (with speaker amp box adapter thingy), the only real amplifier that could drive SR1a, would be Riviera amp (but perhaps to unsatisfactory levels). Of course, its better (and cheaper) to use a speaker amp, or RAAL's HSA-1b instead.

For me, there is no way of testing WA33, so I was stuck between Viva and Riviera, and for tube rolling and more importantly, for running cool, I chose Riviera. Hope this comparison helps.


----------



## DJJEZ (Aug 18, 2021)

I thought I would follow up about the 1266TC super conductor cable that I recently purchased. This is hands down the most expensive audio cable I have purchased but I managed to get it for a great price. I went for the 2.4m/8 foot version as my setup is part of my home cinema and needed the length. I'm currently using a formula S/powerman with Dave and M-Scaler

Joe from Abyss recommends 70 hours burn in and I've got 150 hours on the cable so far. I let it burn in for 96 hours straight (while I was sleeping) while listening around 6 hours every night as well.

I'm really impressed with what the SC cable has added. This cable really changes the 1266TC.There is substantially more bass over the stock cable. Bass hits Harder and goes deeper. There is just this amazing weight and depth to the music now. I mainly listen to alot of heavy metal and EDM ( as well as many other genres) where bass is very important and it's made a substantial difference.

Soundstage width and depth is slightly bigger and the midrange is brought forward and fuller sounding over stock.

What hit me right away is the smoothness this cable has added. Everything is much easier to listen to. The stock cable in comparison sounds thinner and harsher on certain music especially certain female vocals. The sc cable is thicker sounding with every so slightly more warmth with treble sparkle. I would would go as far as saying it sounds slightly more dynamic and just very clear and defined.

It's a very expensive cable no doubt but in my opinion was worth the money and I'm super happy with the results. The build quality is night and day compared to the stock cable. The furutech mini 3 pin XLR's , chrome 4 pin XLR and braided cable are absolutely stunning in hand. I don't like using the word musical  but that's exactly what this cable does over the stock cable which is more analytical. This cable is making me question every other cable in my chain now lol


----------



## stemiki

The SC cable does to the Abyss what the M Scaler does to the DAVE!


----------



## mammal

stemiki said:


> The SC cable does to the Abyss what the M Scaler does to the DAVE!


I hope this is not true, as I did not hear any difference using M Scaler


----------



## stemiki

mammal said:


> I hope this is not true, as I did not hear any difference using M Scaler


You should do a DEMO before buying it!


----------



## mammal

stemiki said:


> You should do a DEMO before buying it!


I did demo M Scaler, that’s how I know it wasn’t worth it for me. Like I also knew Rossini Clock was not worth it for me. But then again, I demoed a bit weirdly - M Scaler with TT2 and Rossini Clock with Bartok, so I give you that.


----------



## qboogie

DJJEZ said:


> I thought I would follow up about the 1266TC super conductor cable that I recently purchased. This is hands down the most expensive audio cable I have purchased but I managed to get it for a great price. I went for the 2.4m/8 foot version as my setup is part of my home cinema and needed the length. I'm currently using a formula S/powerman with Dave and M-Scaler
> 
> Joe from Abyss recommends 70 hours burn in and I've got 150 hours on the cable so far. I let it burn in for 96 hours straight (while I was sleeping) while listening around 6 hours every night as well.
> 
> ...


Absolutely agree with your assessment here. The treble being smoother and less bright really makes it easy to listen to for longer periods and at louder volumes.  I had written a while back that while the bass seemed to have been reduced (by 5-10%, in terms of loudness and presence. The extension and sub-bass seem about the same. The bass is more textured on the SC) going from stock to SC, I now think that this is only the case because the mids are less recessed. 

I recently replaced Audio Envy RCA cables with JPS Superconductor V and felt the sound was immediately less dry and also smoother out the box,  both qualities I think get closer to my desired sound. The Audio Envy cables are said to continue to improve past 300 hrs of use. I'm not sure about the SC V RCA cables. I'm a little on the fence about cable burn-in but might as well run some pink noise when I'm not actively listening.


----------



## vonBaron

Still paying this much for HP cable is insane for me.


----------



## qboogie

vonBaron said:


> Still paying this much for HP cable is insane for me.


I used to think so too. In order to live with myself, I've come to think of the SC as not a cable option, but an upgrade that fixes the two sonic flaws (IMO, recessed mids, occasionally over-energetic treble) in the one of the greatest headphones ever created. Think about it the way one would think about paying more for an updated driver.  I think if JPS/Abyss released a new 1266 model that is tuned to sound just like a Phi TC + superconductor cable for $7500, I think that would seem less crazy.


----------



## Gadget67

vonBaron said:


> Still paying this much for HP cable is insane for me.


Well, let’s see…$5000 for the abyss, $4000 for the Utopia, $6400 for the Nimbus US 5 pro, $3500 for the Sonnet Morpheus, all in your signature (hopefully you got discounts).  I can see your point; the cable is too expensive…


----------



## ken6217 (Aug 18, 2021)

vonBaron said:


> Still paying this much for HP cable is insane for me.


Not really. Which component do you draw the line on for too much money? Would you spend that much money on speaker cable? This is a speaker cable in effect.

I’ve heard power cords That made more of a difference than interconnect or speaker cable.

To me, cables are components.


----------



## vonBaron

Gadget67 said:


> Well, let’s see…$5000 for the abyss, $4000 for the Utopia, $6400 for the Nimbus US 5 pro, $3500 for the Sonnet Morpheus, all in your signature (hopefully you got discounts).  I can see your point; the cable is too expensive…


Not $ but EUR... And yes i cant i can pay more for HP/DAC/AMP etc but cables are another story.


----------



## sahmen (Aug 18, 2021)

qboogie said:


> Absolutely agree with your assessment here. The treble being smoother and less bright really makes it easy to listen to for longer periods and at louder volumes.  I had written a while back that while the bass seemed to have been reduced (by 5-10%, in terms of loudness and presence. The extension and sub-bass seem about the same. The bass is more textured on the SC) going from stock to SC, I now think that this is only the case because the mids are less recessed.
> 
> I recently replaced Audio Envy RCA cables with JPS Superconductor V and felt the sound was immediately less dry and also smoother out the box,  both qualities I think get closer to my desired sound. The Audio Envy cables are said to continue to improve past 300 hrs of use. I'm not sure about the SC V RCA cables. I'm a little on the fence about cable burn-in but might as well run some pink noise when I'm not actively listening.


May i ask how you compare the Supercondoctor cable with your Norne Silvergarde (the S3-C) cable, now that the Superconductor cable has seen enough burn-in (presumably)? Put in another way, do you think someone who already has a Vykari or a Silvergarde S4 8-wire should also consider a superconductor cable?


----------



## Gadget67

vonBaron said:


> Not $ but EUR... And yes i cant i can pay more for HP/DAC/AMP etc but cables are another story.


Well, I anguished endlessly over the Superconductor and found one in the sales forum, so it didn’t hurt as much!  But, seriously it is a great cable and I’m glad I own it.


----------



## mammal

qboogie said:


> I recently replaced Audio Envy RCA cables with JPS Superconductor V and felt the sound was immediately less dry and also smoother out the box, both qualities I think get closer to my desired sound.


Any particular reason (except for price) why you chose Superconductor V instead of Superconductor 4? I am a bit confused by JPS Labs product page, they don’t explain their cables much in detail, nor by comparison to each other. Thanks!


----------



## qboogie (Aug 18, 2021)

mammal said:


> Any particular reason (except for price) why you chose Superconductor V instead of Superconductor 4? I am a bit confused by JPS Labs product page, they don’t explain their cables much in detail, nor by comparison to each other. Thanks!


I just made my choice based on cost, honestly.

Yeah the advertising language is very hyperbolic on their product pages, but I have no complaints about the quality of the sound I'm hearing


----------



## qboogie

.


----------



## Gadget67

I’ve been driving my 1266 with my TT2/M-Scaler combination using the rear XLR out.  Unfortunately, for me, my TT2 developed the clicking problem that prevents the device from completing the initialization process.  I’ve been putting off dealing with it since it would initialize using a 12 volt battery and the TT2 is central to my listening chain.  Recently, even the battery has been erratic in starting up requiring multiple attempts so I contacted my dealer, received a return authorization and my TT2 is on its way to the Chord U.S. distributor in Austin, Texas.  For those who have a TT2, the clicking seems to be related to the “inrush limiter” which presumably means replacing an entire control board.  Hopefully they have one, but I could be in for a long wait depending on parts availability, shipping, Covid, space aliens, etc.  Not happy of course, but it will be repaired and life can resume.

In the meantime I’ve had to revert to earlier configurations to be able to use my system (headphones and speakers).  I’m now using my Focal Arche to drive the Abyss 1266; surprisingly, using high gain and optical it’s more than adequate!  Definitely not as good as the Chord TT2/M-Scaler but it is what it is; first world problems but I’ll survive.  Can’t wait to get the TT2 back of course.


----------



## Frankie D

qboogie said:


> Absolutely agree with your assessment here. The treble being smoother and less bright really makes it easy to listen to for longer periods and at louder volumes.  I had written a while back that while the bass seemed to have been reduced (by 5-10%, in terms of loudness and presence. The extension and sub-bass seem about the same. The bass is more textured on the SC) going from stock to SC, I now think that this is only the case because the mids are less recessed.
> 
> I recently replaced Audio Envy RCA cables with JPS Superconductor V and felt the sound was immediately less dry and also smoother out the box,  both qualities I think get closer to my desired sound. The Audio Envy cables are said to continue to improve past 300 hrs of use. I'm not sure about the SC V RCA cables. I'm a little on the fence about cable burn-in but might as well run some pink noise when I'm not actively listening.


Which Superconductor cable do you get if ordered through Abyss?  Tks.


----------



## qboogie

Frankie D said:


> Which Superconductor cable do you get if ordered through Abyss?  Tks.


Head to the link and select your best fit: https://abyss-headphones.com/collections/jps-labs-cables 

If you mean which SC cable termination do you get with the 1266 Phi TC Complete package,, you can specify that within the order.


----------



## Frankie D

qboogie said:


> Head to the link and select your best fit: https://abyss-headphones.com/collections/jps-labs-cables
> 
> If you mean which SC cable termination do you get with the 1266 Phi TC Complete package,, you can specify that within the order.


You had mentioned superconductor V.  I thought that meant there were different versions of the SC cable, but I only see one on the JPS labs site and on the Abyss site.  
Tks.


----------



## mammal

Frankie D said:


> You had mentioned superconductor V. I thought that meant there were different versions of the SC cable, but I only see one on the JPS labs site and on the Abyss site.


There are only two versions of the SC headphone cable, one for 1266 and one for Diana. They do sell, however, Superconductor interconnect cables, where they have a couple of different models (and had more in the past).


----------



## mitchb

I’m getting good results using my Danacable Lazuli Nirvana cable with my 1266 Phi TC headphones. The sound is fuller more lush than the stock cable.


----------



## qboogie

I never thought upgrade-itis would hit me so soon, but I just read up on the new DCA Stealth headphone and am very interested.


----------



## Slim1970

qboogie said:


> I never thought upgrade-itis would hit me so soon, but I just read up on the new DCA Stealth headphone and am very interested.


It does look great!


----------



## mammal

qboogie said:


> I never thought upgrade-itis would hit me so soon, but I just read up on the new DCA Stealth headphone and am very interested.


I think it is more FOMO than upgraditis, as at this time we cannot say if it is an upgrade/downgrade/sidegrade.


----------



## JLoud

CRBN and Stealth. My wallet just rolled over and died. I’m going to have to pace myself.  I keep telling myself to wait for reviews, just to buy some time. 😉


----------



## Gadget67

qboogie said:


> I never thought upgrade-itis would hit me so soon, but I just read up on the new DCA Stealth headphone and am very interested.


I message regularly with another member who shared some information with me.  I’m taking a pause myself but they do look really interesting.  Even the ASR likes them and I always feel like they hate everything!  Here’s a link:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...alth-review-state-of-the-art-headphone.25920/


----------



## DJJEZ

Gadget67 said:


> I message regularly with another member who shared some information with me.  I’m taking a pause myself but they do look really interesting.  Even the ASR likes them and I always feel like they hate everything!  Here’s a link:
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...alth-review-state-of-the-art-headphone.25920/


I read this yesterday and was amazed how positive he is lol


----------



## ken6217

The DCA Stealth headphone got an excellent review on audio science review, and they usually say everything sucks.


----------



## simorag

Back to listening to my rig after a couple weeks of vacation, wowed anew by the majestic sound ... it is not even funny how much we can get used to the most beautiful things without noticing, ending up with taking them for granted. This could also happen with loved ones by the way, sometimes we miss them when its too late ...

On the other hand, it is a great time for being a head-fier with so many new and compelling options made available on almost a daily basis.

So, for a little bit of scratching the upgrade itch, here is a playlist that challenges a system's versatility, and delivers a broad range of diverse emotions with an AB-1266 of course


----------



## mammal

ken6217 said:


> The DCA Stealth headphone got an excellent review on audio science review, and they usually say everything sucks.


Don't forget he is a big fan of DCA, and his favorite headphone (and daily driver) has been Ether CX, which I personally owned and didn't understand why he even likes it (compared to other available options)


----------



## ken6217

mammal said:


> Don't forget he is a big fan of DCA, and his favorite headphone (and daily driver) has been Ether CX, which I personally owned and didn't understand why he even likes it (compared to other available options)


Thanks for the qualifier. I used to have the Ether Flow Open, and then the Ether Flow 2, but sent the 2’s back as they weren’t as advertised..... meaning no bass to speak of.


----------



## Pashmeister (Aug 20, 2021)

Oh this DCA stealth is killing me! Well I guess my search for a potential amp upgrade (which will likely be a sidegrade/ incremental upgrade) may have to wait so I can pick this up instead—closed back easy to drive planar magnetics and I’m about to return to the office a few days a month (and these seem perfect for office use) oh my goodness it’s like I’ll be left with no choice. 

Ok i need to calm down first and be patient.


----------



## ken6217

Pashmeister said:


> Oh this DCA stealth is killing me! Well I guess my search for a potential amp upgrade (which will likely be a sidegrade/ incremental upgrade) may have to wait so I can pick this up instead—closed back easy to drive planar magnetics and I’m about to return to the office a few days a month (and these seem perfect for office use) oh my goodness it’s like I’ll be left with no choice.
> 
> Ok i need to calm down first and be patient.


Well least you got a couple periods in there. LOL


----------



## JLoud

Speaking of taking your system for granted, I did an audio pallet refresher the other day. Listened to my TC on a Schiit Modius/Magnius stack. Mind you this is a high value combo, but going back to my Yggdrasil/WA33 was eye opening. We can indeed take the quality of our system for granted after a while.


----------



## Pashmeister

ken6217 said:


> Well least you got a couple periods in there. LOL


After watching that head-fi video, I think my Friday night music + Gin & Tonic got me a little manic 😂


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> The DCA Stealth headphone got an excellent review on audio science review, and they usually say everything sucks.


This is what happens when the Abyss C takes forever, DCA steals my money.

I have a gut feeling these Stealth won't match reference listening but I'm excited to compare them to the TC nonetheless.


----------



## ufospls2

paradoxper said:


> This is what happens when the Abyss C takes forever, DCA steals my money.
> 
> I have a gut feeling these Stealth won't match reference listening but I'm excited to compare them to the TC nonetheless.


Looking forward to your thoughts. I'm certainly interested in the Stealth, but just doing my best to be patient and wait for the Diana Closed. I need a closed back, and have done for a good while.


----------



## paradoxper

ufospls2 said:


> Looking forward to your thoughts. I'm certainly interested in the Stealth, but just doing my best to be patient and wait for the Diana Closed. I need a closed back, and have done for a good while.


You can not resist. It's too much fun not to.


----------



## koven

paradoxper said:


> This is what happens when the Abyss C takes forever, DCA steals my money.
> 
> I have a gut feeling these Stealth won't match reference listening but I'm excited to compare them to the TC nonetheless.



Well I was about to pull the DCA trigger, but maybe I'll wait for your for sale ad of $2500 when you dump them after 3 days of listening.


----------



## paradoxper

koven said:


> Well I was about to pull the DCA trigger, but maybe I'll wait for your for sale ad of $2500 when you dump them after 3 days of listening.


3 days seems most gracious, indeed. 🤣


----------



## ufospls2

paradoxper said:


> You can not resist. It's too much fun not to.



I hate that you're not wrong.


----------



## ken6217

What is the impinge and sensitivity listed anywhere for the Stealth?


----------



## normie610

ken6217 said:


> What is the impinge and sensitivity listed anywhere for the Stealth?


Here it is:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dan...w-interview-measurements.959214/post-16516884

Impedance is @ 23 ohm


----------



## ken6217 (Aug 20, 2021)

normie610 said:


> Here it is:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dan...w-interview-measurements.959214/post-16516884
> 
> Impedance is @ 23 ohm


Thanks.

I smell a speaker amp.


----------



## normie610

ken6217 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I smell a speaker amp.


Couldn’t agree more 😁


----------



## Gadget67

ken6217 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I smell a speaker amp.


That’s smoke from the headphone…


----------



## cangle (Aug 22, 2021)

A note about the o-rings for the 1266 headband. I was curious about the differences between the commonly available materials so I ordered o-rings in Buna-N, Viton, and EPDM. They were all size 215 and hardness of 70A apart from the Viton which was 75A. I would say the Buna-N felt the most elastic with the EPDM close behind. The Viton is very hard to stretch but this could just be related to the hardness rating of 75A vs 70A so might need to try that in 70A. For now I am happy with the 215 70A Buna-N o-rings. They are a bit tight at the moment but should stretch a bit for a more comfortable vertical adjustment.

In the original kit I bought here: https://www.amazon.com/Orion-Motor-...d=1&keywords=o-ring+kit&qid=1629652327&sr=8-3, the o-rings stretch very easily which is why I settled on size 213. I'm not sure what the hardness rating is but it must be less than 70A. Also these o-rings I can snap with my hands quite easily and would snap after a couple of weeks of use on the 1266 whereas the ones I bought more recently for this comparison I can't snap.

Here's some info on the o-ring hardness scale https://www.theoringstore.com/store/index.php?main_page=page&id=7.


----------



## mammal

cangle said:


> A note about the o-rings for the 1266 headband. I was curious about the differences between the commonly available materials so I ordered o-rings in Buna-N, Viton, and EPDM. They were all size 215 and hardness of 70A apart from the Viton which was 75A. I would say the Buna-N felt the most elastic with the EPDM close behind. The Viton is very hard to stretch but this could just be related to the hardness rating of 75A vs 70A so might need to try that in 70A. For now I am happy with the 215 70A Buna-N o-rings. They are a bit tight at the moment but should stretch a bit for a more comfortable vertical adjustment.
> 
> In the original kit I bought here: https://www.amazon.com/Orion-Motor-...d=1&keywords=o-ring+kit&qid=1629652327&sr=8-3, the o-rings stretch very easily which is why I settled on size 213. I'm not sure what the hardness rating is but it must be less than 70A. Also these o-rings I can snap with my hands quite easily and would snap after a couple of weeks of use on the 1266 whereas the ones I bought more recently for this comparison I can't snap.
> 
> Here's some info on the o-ring hardness scale https://www.theoringstore.com/store/index.php?main_page=page&id=7.


Very good research, thanks for the links. But, why aren't we arguing which o-ring sounds better? This is head-fi after all, haha.


----------



## sahmen (Aug 22, 2021)

Okay Pop quiz :










Which of these two bad boys would most likely bring the quickest and broadest smile to your face one not-too-cheerful afternoon, in rainy fall weather, assuming all synergistic requirements are equally met for both?

















My answer is in the song


----------



## cangle

The Rooms 1266 stand is here! It's very nice and fits the headphone perfectly but I still have a hard time justifying the cost of 350 Euro. But I don't regret the purchase at all


----------



## MatW

cangle said:


> The Rooms 1266 stand is here! It's very nice and fits the headphone perfectly but I still have a hard time justifying the cost of 350 Euro. But I don't regret the purchase at all


Nice! And agreed. It is quite expensive. But I like the fact that I can leave them toed in when I put them on a stand. (I don't toe them is as much as you see on this picture, but you get the idea..)


----------



## DJJEZ

cangle said:


> The Rooms 1266 stand is here! It's very nice and fits the headphone perfectly but I still have a hard time justifying the cost of 350 Euro. But I don't regret the purchase at all


It's an absolute rip off for what it is when you realise only the top part is 200 euro+ compared to the regular rooms stand but agreed its a must own for the abyss


----------



## Gadget67

DJJEZ said:


> It's an absolute rip off for what it is when you realise only the top part is 200 euro+ compared to the regular rooms stand but agreed its a must own for the abyss


Abyss is such a great name because that’s what we’ve fallen in to….


----------



## cangle

MatW said:


> Nice! And agreed. It is quite expensive. But I like the fact that I can leave them toed in when I put them on a stand. (I don't toe them is as much as you see on this picture, but you get the idea..)


Oh cool I didn't realize I could rotate the top two supports but that makes it fit just a bit better as I use a slight toe-in on mine. Also, the version I have has black felt on top even though the website advertises the red felt. I think I like the black better but just a heads up in case anyone is expecting theirs to be red


----------



## MatW (Aug 23, 2021)

cangle said:


> Oh cool I didn't realize I could rotate the top two supports but that makes it fit just a bit better as I use a slight toe-in on mine. Also, the version I have has black felt on top even though the website advertises the red felt. I think I like the black better but just a heads up in case anyone is expecting theirs to be red


Yeah, quite a few don't realize, so I thought I'd share.  

Good to know about the felt. I am fine with red but given the choice.. yes maybe black would have been my choice.


----------



## jlbrach

cangle said:


> The Rooms 1266 stand is here! It's very nice and fits the headphone perfectly but I still have a hard time justifying the cost of 350 Euro. But I don't regret the purchase at all


it is a great stand expensive but in this case you get what you pay for...


----------



## mammal

cangle said:


> The Rooms 1266 stand is here! It's very nice and fits the headphone perfectly but I still have a hard time justifying the cost of 350 Euro. But I don't regret the purchase at all


I guess I should start making one myself (high quality 3D print), using the same Rooms base, and charge 250 Euro and have it always in stock.


----------



## Ciggavelli

So, I recently changed my DAVE power supply to a Sean Jacob's DC4.  Most people use this power supply with speakers, and I was a bit worried that it wouldn't make that big of a difference with my headphones.  I found that to be both true and false.  The TCs absolutely scaled up really well with the DC4.  They are  even better sounding now (somehow).  But for some of my other headphones, the difference wasn't as large.  So, it just goes to show that the TCs scale up with everything really well.  I wonder what the limit to that is though


----------



## vonBaron

7400$ for a LPS? Ok...


----------



## ken6217

I find that you always hear a difference wihen you change LPS, some better and sometimes not.


----------



## ra990 (Aug 27, 2021)

Anyone using EQ with their TC? I tried the EQ settings posted on ASR, just for the hell of it...found that the sound did become more polite but too much. I tweaked them a bit and got to these settings, they sound very nice to me if anyone wants to try to bring them more in line with Harman target:

Using headroom of -4db


----------



## Jon L

ra990 said:


> Anyone using EQ with their TC? I tried the EQ settings posted on ASR, just for the hell of it...found that the sound did become more polite but too much.


That's why I don't quite understand this trend of using EQ profiles OTHER people have made in Other systems for Their tastes.  
For me, careful EQ'ing usually will seem to sound "better" for awhile, but after some time, non-EQ'd system usually sounds more...clean and unmolested.


----------



## simorag

What a wonderful way to begin the weekend ...


----------



## mammal

Today was a nice day - drove 5 hours to Germany, in order to listen to (and compare) 1266 TC with Stax 009S both driven off Paultof amp, and later compared RAAL SR1a, Meze Empyrian, ZMF Verite Open and Final D8000, all out of RAAL's HSA-1b amplifier.


----------



## olle83

I while ago I measured my TC's with in ear microphones ( https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/MS-TFB-2-MOG-XLR ).
I used TT2's rear XLR-outputs with headphones and Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen was used for mics.
Stock cable was used with TC's.

Here's what I got as a result (1/12 smoothing used):




Then I created this EQ with Equalizer APO:


```
Filter: ON PK Fc 34 Hz Gain 3 dB Q 4
Filter: ON PK Fc 53 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 3
Filter: ON PK Fc 200 Hz Gain 1.7 dB Q 1.5
Filter: ON PK Fc 405 Hz Gain -1 dB Q 6
Filter: ON PK Fc 495 Hz Gain 2.5 dB Q 5
Filter: ON PK Fc 1350 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 4.1
Filter: ON PK Fc 2800 Hz Gain 2 dB Q 2
Filter: ON PK Fc 4860 Hz Gain -5 dB Q 6
Filter: ON PK Fc 6730 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 6
Filter: ON PK Fc 11700 Hz Gain -4 dB Q 6
Filter: ON LPQ Fc 18500 Hz Q 0.6
```

And after applying the EQ I measured this (1/12 smoothing used):



For music playback I'm using HQPlayer with Raspberry Pi 4 (NAA).
This is my HQPlayer EQ:

```
iir:type=peak;f=34;q=4.0;g=3.0,iir:type=peak;f=53;q=3.0;g=-3.0,iir:type=peak;f=200;q=1.5;g=1.7,iir:type=peak;f=405;q=6.0;g=-1.0,iir:type=peak;f=495;q=5.0;g=2.5,iir:type=peak;f=1350;q=4.1;g=-2.0,iir:type=peak;f=2800;q=2.0;g=2.0,iir:type=peak;f=4860;q=6.0;g=-5.0,iir:type=peak;f=6730;q=6.0;g=-2.0,iir:type=peak;f=11700;q=6.0;g=-4.0,iir:type=lp;f=18500;q=0.6
```

I'm no expert in creating proper EQ's, I just tried to use minimal amount of filters.
I've been busy so I haven't fully tested my EQ with every music genre in existence, I may tweak it along the way if I find something lacking.

Perhaps this EQ only works with my head/ears/gear combo and if someone else were to measure their TC's it would produce entirely different results.
Low frequencies are certainly affected by how you wear you headphones.


----------



## DJJEZ

mammal said:


> Today was a nice day - drove 5 hours to Germany, in order to listen to (and compare) 1266 TC with Stax 009S both driven off Paultof amp, and later compared RAAL SR1a, Meze Empyrian, ZMF Verite Open and Final D8000, all out of RAAL's HSA-1b amplifier.


Will you be selling the 1266TC?


----------



## mammal

DJJEZ said:


> Will you be selling the 1266TC?


Nope  but I will start recommending Final D8000 (non pro) to newcomers from now on!


----------



## Sajid Amit

mammal said:


> Nope  but I will start recommending Final D8000 (non pro) to newcomers from now on!


True. I have always insisted it is a VERY underappreciated HP.


----------



## nrbatista

mammal said:


> Today was a nice day - drove 5 hours to Germany, in order to listen to (and compare) 1266 TC with Stax 009S both driven off Paultof amp, and later compared RAAL SR1a, Meze Empyrian, ZMF Verite Open and Final D8000, all out of RAAL's HSA-1b amplifier.


What are your thoughts about the Paltauf and TC pairing?


----------



## mammal

nrbatista said:


> What are your thoughts about the Paltauf and TC pairing?


Did not like it at all - felt "digital" and "zingy", not sure if distortion or something else. I much more preferred RAAL's HSA-1b.


----------



## julien-hifi

I also tried Paltauf with the Abyss 1266, but 2 different models, the HPA100-SP (which i owned) and the KVH-ESD, i much prefer one over the other. I recommend trying the other one then to drive the 1266


----------



## DJJEZ (Aug 29, 2021)

Resolve's Abyss 1266TC review


----------



## Tachyon88

Hypothetical question. If TC did not do what it does with the bass, would some of you still own it ?


----------



## ken6217

Tachyon88 said:


> Hypothetical question. If TC did not do what it does with the bass, would some of you still own it ?


Is that a real question?


----------



## Tachyon88

ken6217 said:


> Is that a real question?


Yes..


----------



## ken6217

ken6217 said:


> You should follow up that one with, if your car didn’t have tires would you still drive it


----------



## MatW

Tachyon88 said:


> Hypothetical question. If TC did not do what it does with the bass, would some of you still own it ?


I listened to the Susvara and the TC today. Both are great but the TC is still my clear favorite overall. It is hard to think away the bass of course, but the TC allows me to look deeper into the music, across the entire frequency range. It is an awesome experience, not matched by any other headphone I know.


----------



## ufospls2

Tachyon88 said:


> Hypothetical question. If TC did not do what it does with the bass, would some of you still own it ?


yes.


----------



## paradoxper (Aug 29, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> Resolve's Abyss 1266TC review



I find it so odd he wears the TC straight across with zero toe. Haha.


----------



## DJJEZ (Aug 29, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> I find it so odd he wears the TC straight across with zero toe. Haha.


Dont think he was that impressed either lol


----------



## 432789

Distortion.


----------



## paradoxper

DJJEZ said:


> Dont think he was that impressed either lol


Considering anything/everything I've ever been interested in, I simply go purchase, I can't be too concerned with his subjective disappointments or jubilation. 

Shrugs.


----------



## Drewligarchy

I never thought the Abyss would be my favorite headphone. If you've not tried it it sure doesn't look comfortable, and, IMO, it's aesthetic is an acquired taste.

I was very happy with my 009/Carbon (not quite at the level of Paradoxper's 009/T2, but especially relevant as we both no longer have the 009 and our amps, and do have/love the Abyss).

At CanJam 2018 I first tried the Abyss TC, and it was one of those What, moments: This sounds better than everything I've tried.

3 years later, I'm still loving them. I guess I will until I don't. But after I've enjoyed a headphone immensely for 3 years, I'm not going to start disliking it because it reviews poorly. I like Resolve's videos. I hate ASR's reviews, that's why I read them 

But if I stopped listening to the Abyss because reviews told me they sucked, wouldn't I be guilty of the same bias that ASR so adamantly warns against? I feel like they spurred a bunch of Abyss reviews and re-measurements, yet are plagued by the same group think and pre-bias they supposedly guard against by taking Amir's words as gospel - and buying what he tells them to.

To answer your question, I don't think I can separate the bass from the Abyss, the same way I can't ignore it's staging - the depth of it's image, or it's resolution. I can hear changes with DACs and amplifiers and tubes that I can't hear with other headphones. It's just damn fun to listen to, and I always end up going back to it.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Aug 29, 2021)

One more interesting data point.

I wouldn't call my dad an audiophile, but he likes good sound and can easily buy whatever system he wants. For instance: He has a Surround system with 4 Meridian DSP 8000s and a DSP 5000. He'll pay top dollar, but doesn't want to mess with DACs, Amps etc (at least anymore). While arguably you could do more for what that system costs, he's happy because it just works - and his audio guy comes by to fix it when it doesn't.

He was up in NYC during CanJam 2019, so I took him. We ended up in the Woo room with the Abyss and Susvara hooked up to the Wa33. He listened to both of them and immediate reactions are these are good (susvaras), but these are amazing (abyss).

We were back at my house and I let him listen to the abyss on my setup. I had a Formula S and Powerman at the time. He offered to buy it on the spot, and while I ended up selling it elsewhere, he sat for hours and hours and just listened to that phone.

You have to question the Harmon preference curve to some extent if so many people gravitate toward this headphone, and it departs from it as much as the measurements indicate, whether they are into audio or not. It's doing something right - beyond bass (though that's certainly part of it) - which causes so many to enjoy it. I think there is still much more to understand regarding headphone measurements and science - and why people enjoy what they do.


----------



## dukeskd

The thing about Harman curve is... it was architected for in-room speaker setups.

I feel that for headphones it is a completely different ballgame as there is no cross-over and frequencies disperse themselves very differently. The Harmon curve should not be a reference for headphone listening.

Additionally, there are so many different use cases for headphones: professional vs enjoyment. This is why it is primitive to just use one curve and say "this is the best curve and if nothing matches it, it sucks". I think that is naive and not all encompassing.


----------



## Tachyon88

Drewligarchy said:


> One more interesting data point.
> 
> I wouldn't call my dad an audiophile, but he likes good sound and can easily buy whatever system he wants. For instance: He has a Surround system with 4 Meridian DSP 8000s and a DSP 5000. He'll pay top dollar, but doesn't want to mess with DACs, Amps etc (at least anymore). While arguably you could do more for what that system costs, he's happy because it just works - and his audio guy comes by to fix it when it doesn't.
> 
> ...



IMO even if you tuned the TC to harmon it will still do what TC does. Its the design.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Tachyon88 said:


> IMO even if you tuned the TC to harmon it will still do what TC does. Its the design.



Perhaps so - but it’s not, yet people still love it. So, what is it that makes people gravitate to certain headphones? Obviously preference plays a role, and frequency response plays a role - but there are obviously a number of factors beyond that, that are key determinants. I don’t know if they are measurable or not.


----------



## OceanRanger

I've had TCs for the last year and recently added Susvaras to the lineup. It isn't just the bass that has me enamored with the TCs, it is also the huge sound stage and imaging. For a lean-forward experience I can't imagine anything more engaging. That said, I've have been reaching for the Suvaras when I want to simply sit back in a comfy chair and enjoy a casual listening session. 

It might also be that changing from one to the other causes me to appreciate each one for their own strengths. Good times!


----------



## cangle

ra990 said:


> Anyone using EQ with their TC? I tried the EQ settings posted on ASR, just for the hell of it...found that the sound did become more polite but too much. I tweaked them a bit and got to these settings, they sound very nice to me if anyone wants to try to bring them more in line with Harman target:
> 
> Using headroom of -4db


I tried this today and didn't notice a huge difference. I feel like I should because there are some huge peaks in that graph, maybe it's more related to the music I was listening to not showing off the changes in this EQ. The small difference that I did notice however was a smoother sound with a loss of intensity in the upper mids and treble. This seems to be the case with most EQs I try, they smooth out the sound of the headphone causing it to be less exciting IMO. I prefer the 1266 without EQ especially since I can adjust it so much with the fit but it's fun to try EQ occasionally since it's easy to plug into Roon and give it a try.


----------



## cangle

Tachyon88 said:


> Hypothetical question. If TC did not do what it does with the bass, would some of you still own it ?


I think so but like others have said it's hard to imagine the TC without the bass. I think if it did bass like the LCD-4 I would definitely keep it but if it got replaced with HD800 bass I wouldn't. It's kind of an odd question and I like the analogy of driving a car without the tires but I guess my answer is depends.

Another note that I just thought of, when I create a seal with the pads and headband adjustments and decrease the quantity of bass I still quite enjoy the sound. Sometimes the more tight and punchy bass suits some songs better too.


----------



## ra990

I'm surprised Resolve didn't find the soundstage to be as large as the HD800. I had a HD800S with me recently for a while and thought the Abyss offered a much better soundstage, at least as large, if not larger. The 800S seems mushed in comparison, although that could have just been the difference in frequency responses of the two.


----------



## ra990

When it comes to bass accuracy, texture, resolution - I'm sorry but IMO the Susvara has the Abyss beat.

The Abyss easily beats Susvara in bass quantity and impact (but can overdo it a bit unless you have the right fit for the song).


----------



## ra990

cangle said:


> I tried this today and didn't notice a huge difference. I feel like I should because there are some huge peaks in that graph, maybe it's more related to the music I was listening to not showing off the changes in this EQ. The small difference that I did notice however was a smoother sound with a loss of intensity in the upper mids and treble. This seems to be the case with most EQs I try, they smooth out the sound of the headphone causing it to be less exciting IMO. I prefer the 1266 without EQ especially since I can adjust it so much with the fit but it's fun to try EQ occasionally since it's easy to plug into Roon and give it a try.


Thanks for trying it. If you tried the original ASR EQ, you would have heard a drastic change. I tweaked the EQ to lower or increase the offending frequencies without losing too much of the TC's character. You are right, it is very song dependent. I usually have it off unless something doesn't sound right, if a song is too peaky or something, then I'll switch it on to see if it helps.


----------



## cangle

ra990 said:


> I'm surprised Resolve didn't find the soundstage to be as large as the HD800. I had a HD800S with me recently for a while and thought the Abyss offered a much better soundstage, at least as large, if not larger. The 800S seems mushed in comparison, although that could have just been the difference in frequency responses of the two.


Agree with this. I have an HD800S too and the stage on that is just as wide or a bit less than the 1266. I think the imaging on the 1266 is more precise than on the HD800S too


----------



## Sajid Amit

cangle said:


> Agree with this. I have an HD800S too and the stage on that is just as wide or a bit less than the 1266. I think the imaging on the 1266 is more precise than on the HD800S too


Yup, Resolve had the same initial reaction to the TC that I did, going from a Susvara/Utopia (more Harman-like tuning).

And I don’t think he listens to heavy metal or rock as much as I have, so there’s that.

But all that being said, can’t agree with the assessment that the Sus is more spacious sounding.

The TC is far more open sounding than my beloved Susvara. That’s just a fact, as far as I am concerned.


----------



## jlbrach (Aug 29, 2021)

it is one of the few facts in this hobby...the abyss has a larger soundstage than does the susvara..a review that disputes this becomes suspect to me...the susvara has a very pleasing soundstage and it is deep but in terms of size and spaciousness it is the abyss without doubt


----------



## OceanRanger

jlbrach said:


> it is one of the few facts in this hobby...the abyss has a larger soundstage than does the susvara..a review that disputes this becomes suspect to me...the susvara has a very pleasing soundstage and it is deep but in terms of size and spaciousness it is the abyss without doubt


I agree. There are some songs which truly do shine with the larger sound stage and therefore the TCs and there are some which I enjoy with the more intimate sound stage of the Susvaras. 

This hobby is so much fun!


----------



## TDinCali

I’ve come full circle on the 1266TC, started with “love it” to It’s really good but not as good as Susvara, back to “the 1266TC is the best all around for SQ”.


----------



## nicholas1213

Hello, I have been searching over the pages trying to find an impression comparing the phi (pre CC) with the TC. I am sure it is somewhere, just need more time to search thru the pages (using search function). Any kind soul that has a link or would care to repost here?

I am thinking with almost 50% of the TC cost, if I could get a phi version, it could be a good opportunity to 'dive' into this abyss 😬


----------



## ufospls2 (Aug 30, 2021)

nicholas1213 said:


> Hello, I have been searching over the pages trying to find an impression comparing the phi (pre CC) with the TC. I am sure it is somewhere, just need more time to search thru the pages (using search function). Any kind soul that has a link or would care to repost here?
> 
> I am thinking with almost 50% of the TC cost, if I could get a phi version, it could be a good opportunity to 'dive' into this abyss 😬



Go for it. Have owned the Original, Phi, and TC. Phi is still a great headphone (I would take it over everything on the market apart from the Susvara...I think.)


----------



## ra990 (Aug 30, 2021)

TDinCali said:


> I’ve come full circle on the 1266TC, started with “love it” to It’s really good but not as good as Susvara, back to “the 1266TC is the best all around for SQ”.


Don't think for a second you've come to your final position on this. Keep listening to them both and it will drive you crazy trying to decide which one is "better". I had to make a really tough decision between the two and decided to keep the Abyss, but thought about rescinding the Susvara sale every day! They just sold today...


----------



## Sajid Amit

ra990 said:


> Don't think for a second you've come to your final position on this. Keep listening to them both and it will drive you crazy trying to decide which one is "better". I had to make a really tough decision between the two and decided to keep the Abyss, but thought about rescinding the Susvara sale every day! They just sold today...


Congrats. Hope you got the price you wanted. They are great headphones but I do understand the rationale behind keeping the TC and getting the Stealth as a complement (both CB and tuning close to Harman, and also likely more laidback than the TC according to initial reports).


----------



## ra990

Sajid Amit said:


> Congrats. Hope you got the price you wanted. They are great headphones but I do understand the rationale behind keeping the TC and getting the Stealth as a complement (both CB and tuning close to Harman, and also likely more laidback than the TC according to initial reports).


Yep, that's what I was thinking. Susvara is already closer to that tuning and I wanted more of a contrast. And yes, I got full asking price from a popular YouTuber looking to do a shootout. I can't say who.


----------



## MatW (Aug 30, 2021)

ra990 said:


> I'm surprised Resolve didn't find the soundstage to be as large as the HD800. I had a HD800S with me recently for a while and thought the Abyss offered a much better soundstage, at least as large, if not larger. The 800S seems mushed in comparison, although that could have just been the difference in frequency responses of the two.


It looked to me like Resolve did not really know what to do with it... he looked rather uncomfortable with the headphone, it was kind of funny to watch. It is no surprise to me that he did not like it. It is too different from 'normal' headphones, and imo you really need to spend time with it (actually listening to it and playing with the fit, rather than focus on measurements). And in general, he tends to like what I don't and vice versa...  Probably genre preference is also a big factor here.


----------



## Sajid Amit

MatW said:


> It looked to me like Resolve did not really know what to do with it... he looked rather uncomfortable with the headphone, it was kind of funny to watch. It is no surprise to me that he did not like it. It is too different from 'normal' headphones, and imo you really need to spend time with it (actually listening to it and playing with the fit) rather than focus on measurements. And in general, he tends to like what I don't and vice versa...  Probably genre preference is also a big factor here.


Agree with your assessment.

I appreciate Resolve’s contribution to the community. But I am convinced that when you start becoming well-known for your measurements, even if you claim that you understand that Hartman 2018 is merely a target that conforms to 64% of the sample being considered, sooner or later, subjectivity goes out of the window, and the target curve starts becoming an objective end goal.

That’s why a Resolve or a Crin, as much as I respect them for their efforts, don’t have much time for the TC, the SR1a, or many estats.


----------



## trellus (Aug 30, 2021)

Sajid Amit said:


> Agree with your assessment.
> 
> I appreciate Resolve’s contribution to the community. But I am convinced that when you start becoming well-known for your measurements, even if you claim that you understand that Hartman 2018 is merely a target that conforms to 64% of the sample being considered, sooner or later, subjectivity goes out of the window, and the target curve starts becoming an objective end goal.
> 
> That’s why a Resolve or a Crin, as much as I respect them for their efforts, don’t have much time for the TC, the SR1a, or many estats.


Resolve consistently mentions that deviations from the curve do not make  headphone “bad,” and he specifically mentions in this review for the 1266 TC that for people seeking a W-shaped sound, they will be happy with the 1266 TC, and that it’s just not a tuning _for him personally_.

Also, he generally doesn’t use the 2018 Harman fully, but Harman 2018 for everything but the bass, for which he uses an earlier (2014?) Harman curve.

It’s not as if he gave it a bad review, he simply explains the deviations from the target curve in order to explain its frequency response objectively, recognizing that not everyone is looking for something as close to the target as he does.

I actually find his reviews very informative precisely because of his consistent approach to FR and tuning, even knowing I tend to be less married to the target curve than I perceive him to be — so, for example with this review, I left thinking, “yup, I think I’d dig these still.” 😅


----------



## tholt (Aug 30, 2021)

nicholas1213 said:


> Hello, I have been searching over the pages trying to find an impression comparing the phi (pre CC) with the TC. I am sure it is somewhere, just need more time to search thru the pages (using search function). Any kind soul that has a link or would care to repost here?
> 
> I am thinking with almost 50% of the TC cost, if I could get a phi version, it could be a good opportunity to 'dive' into this abyss 😬


I had the Phi for over a year and upgraded to the TC a few months ago. The Phi is very good, but I was surprised at just how much better the TC is in pretty much every area. I wasn't sure what to expect; there were reports saying the TC was incrementally better and ones that the TC was significantly better. I'm more in the latter camp. Bass still hits hard and deep but is much better controlled, mids are more fleshed out (a bit of a weak spot in the Abyss sound signature IMO), highs are more refined and less bitey, and overall things just sound more immersive and real vs Phi, which is impressive in all the "hifi" ways but never really got out of the way. All that said, if you're looking to get into Abyss, the Phi is still great. But if you end up liking the Phi, you'll probably be saving/spending more to get the TC.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Aug 30, 2021)

trellus said:


> Resolve consistently mentions that deviations from the curve do not make  headphone “bad,” and he specifically mentions in this review for the 1266 TC that for people seeking a W-shaped sound, they will be happy with the 1266 TC, and that it’s just not a tuning _for him personally_.
> 
> Also, he generally doesn’t use the 2018 Harman fully, but Harman 2018 for everything but the bass, for which he uses an earlier (2014?) Harman curve.
> 
> ...


Kudos to you for being able to distill the review appropriately.

For many though, expressions like “A weirdo Susvara with better macro dynamics” or some such description is likely to be discouraging. 

I like Resolve a lot. Don’t get me wrong. I find his reviews very informative.


----------



## trellus

Sajid Amit said:


> Kudos to you for being able to distill the review appropriately.
> 
> For many though, expressions like “A weirdo Susvara with better macro dynamics” or some such description is likely to be discouraging. Just saying.
> 
> I like Resolve a lot. Don’t get me wrong. I find his reviews very informative.



Yeah, that quote is definitely, eh, heavily flavored with his subjective take, good point.   But in the context of the review, I'm not sure it's inaccurate given I'm confident he means it's "weirdo" relative to the Susvara largely on the dimension of frequency response.

For me, I know I'd probably thoroughly enjoy the "weirdo" tuning, given that I find I often like a headphone he's reviewed without his recommended equalization, which he shares.  This is true for the Elegia and the LCD-2F, both of which he recommends with equalization, particularly the latter.  I find, however, that I just listen to them stock, despite their deviations from the reference curve.


----------



## Jon L

MatW said:


> And in general, he tends to like what I don't and vice versa...  Probably genre preference is also a big factor here.


I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way.


----------



## BassicScience

Sajid Amit said:


> Agree with your assessment.
> 
> I appreciate Resolve’s contribution to the community. But I am convinced that when you start becoming well-known for your measurements, even if you claim that you understand that Hartman 2018 is merely a target that conforms to 64% of the sample being considered, sooner or later, subjectivity goes out of the window, and the target curve starts becoming an objective end goal.
> 
> That’s why a Resolve or a Crin, as much as I respect them for their efforts, don’t have much time for the TC, the SR1a, or many estats.


There may be something to your hypothesis. Resolve said something similar about ASR, perhaps a form of projection (?). OTOH, I (twice) had similar subjective impressions of the TC to Resolve's and _I wasn't aware of its technical specs at the time_. Specifically, I didn't hear a particularly capacious soundstage. I will be auditioning the TC again in a month at Canjam and will play around with the fit to see if I can improve on my earlier results.

I will also say that I tend to seek out well-measuring gear because 45+ years of listening has shown me that there's a high correlation between that and what typically sounds best *to me*. I usually don't read the FR specs before I audition just to remove the potential bias you allude to.


----------



## qboogie (Aug 30, 2021)

Tachyon88 said:


> Hypothetical question. If TC did not do what it does with the bass, would some of you still own it ?


Probably not, at least not for my music tastes. Without that bass, it would probably be replaced by the HEDDphone which IMO comes closest to doing what the TC does in terms of detail and forwardness of the overall sound. It has a more typical FR. The stage dimensions come close but were amp dependent in my experience.  That weight is a dealbreaker though.


----------



## Solan (Aug 30, 2021)

I am wondering why many are against EQ'ing. It's not like they don't EQ and colour the sound in studios. Rather, it's the name of the game to tune the sound until it sounds the most pleasing in their monitors. So why not apply a studio type EQ at your own end if the studio hasn't EQ'ed it to fit your liking? As for the Harman curve ... that's really pointless, since it presupposes neutrality from the studio side. If the studio has EQ'ed it one way, you adjust the music one way to maximize for your taste. If they have EQ'ed it a different way, you obviously have to compensate by EQ'ing in a complimentary way. That's just logical. So the way you best EQ and flavour the sound will be different from one recording to the next. Same goes for choice of headphones.


----------



## Shahrose

Sajid Amit said:


> Kudos to you for being able to distill the review appropriately.
> 
> For many though, expressions like “A weirdo Susvara with better macro dynamics” or some such description is likely to be discouraging.
> 
> I like Resolve a lot. Don’t get me wrong. I find his reviews very informative.



An unusually off-base review from a great reviewer. Other than his commentary on timbre/tone, I felt he missed the mark in most other areas.

My hunch is some of it stems from a lack of long-term comparison across a range of ancillaries. Can't understate the importance of time and experience in gauging these things...


----------



## cangle

Solan said:


> I am wondering why many are against EQ'ing. It's not like they don't EQ and colour the sound in studios. Rather, it's the name of the game to tune the sound until it sounds the most pleasing in their monitors. So why not apply a studio type EQ at your own end if the studio hasn't EQ'ed it to fit your liking? As for the Harman curve ... that's really pointless, since it presupposes neutrality from the studio side. If the studio has EQ'ed it one way, you adjust the music one way to maximize for your taste. If they have EQ'ed it a different way, you obviously have to compensate by EQ'ing in a complimentary way. That's just logical. So the way you best EQ and flavour the sound will be different from one recording to the next. Same goes for choice of headphones.


I'm not really against EQ'ing I just find that whenever I try an EQ that I end up going back to the stock tuning and preferring that. In the case of the 1266 and LCD-4z, the stock tuning had more excitement and forwardness whereas the EQ made it smoother sounding and more laid back to my ears. The only headphone that I liked to EQ was the HD800S by adding a bass shelf but even with that I found that the bass boost came across as unnatural on some tracks.

The other issue I have with EQ'ing is I always wonder if I'm missing out on some EQ settings that could elevate the sound further so I end up tweaking it constantly instead of just listening to the music. So, due to all these reasons I tend to stick with the stock sound of the headphones.


----------



## jlbrach

If I need to EQ a HP then I choose another HP...that is just me, there are too many great options out there


----------



## paradoxper

Solan said:


> I am wondering why many are against EQ'ing. It's not like they don't EQ and colour the sound in studios. Rather, it's the name of the game to tune the sound until it sounds the most pleasing in their monitors. So why not apply a studio type EQ at your own end if the studio hasn't EQ'ed it to fit your liking? As for the Harman curve ... that's really pointless, since it presupposes neutrality from the studio side. If the studio has EQ'ed it one way, you adjust the music one way to maximize for your taste. If they have EQ'ed it a different way, you obviously have to compensate by EQ'ing in a complimentary way. That's just logical. So the way you best EQ and flavour the sound will be different from one recording to the next. Same goes for choice of headphones.


Likely a perceived notion. Likewise, the same for the perceptions that EQ solves for everything and costs nothing.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Shahrose said:


> An unusually off-base review from a great reviewer. Other than his commentary on timbre/tone, I felt he missed the mark in most other areas.
> 
> My hunch is some of it stems from a lack of long-term comparison across a range of ancillaries. Can't understate the importance of time and experience in gauging these things...


Yeah. He is definitely a great reviewer. Arguably the best on YouTube, IMHO.


----------



## Solan (Aug 31, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> Likely a perceived notion. Likewise, the same for the perceptions that EQ solves for everything and costs nothing.


It costs, by all means. But we should recognise that studios EQ, and balance the cost/benefit. What should also be considered, is that there are different types of EQ. The type with 20 levers that you can push up and down seem not to be optimal for studio use. It seems (though I am surely not an expert here, just an avid listener) that the most coveted studio EQ is the Pultec, which has very few levers, and which can only EQ down, not up. It seems to preserve the original signal best, making the loss side of the equation the smallest, while also providing the most sought-for EQ. Something to consider to us audiophiles.

Pultec sample at right after 173 secs, when he flips a switch:


----------



## paradoxper (Aug 31, 2021)

Solan said:


> It costs, by all means. But we should recognise that studios EQ, and balance the cost/benefit. What should also be considered, is that there are different types of EQ. The type with 20 levers that you can push up and down seem not to be optimal for studio use. It seems (though I am surely not an expert here, just an avid listener) that the most coveted studio EQ is the Pultec, which has very few levers, and which can only EQ down, not up. It seems to preserve the original signal best, making the loss side of the equation the smallest, while also providing the most sought-for EQ. Something to consider to us audiophiles.
> 
> Pultec sample at right after 173 secs, when he flips a switch:



I may not disagree with you. It should also be recognized that engineers and audiophiles serve different masters. Which was, in part, my directive point.

In that, I would, if I were you, have asked why don't audiophiles consider means of studio EQ -- something such as the Maag Audio Mastering EQ.

But you're correct, part of the issue is different types / understanding of EQ.

However, curiously many audiophiles are staunchly and willfully ignorant to the technicalities therein.


----------



## Solan

paradoxper said:


> I may not disagree with you. It should also be recognized that engineers and audiophiles serve different masters. Which was, in part, my directive point.


Point taken and pun appreciated. 

We do also walk in different herds. For let's admit it, though we do follow our own tastes, we also follow the prevalent advice in the herd. In the studio end, some engineers regard V76 as the holy grail whereas others have not heard of it. Just like in head-fi. So I guess I should also speak of sub-herds.

I try to cross between the herds, for I know I have no chance of testing it all myself. So I borrow different ears and different judgements. From different herds. I struck a really lucky one with the 1266, and even with simple EQ it seems to respond well to it. Other headphones don't. But as you said, EQ still _does_ cost, so it's a matter of finding the "ultimate". But I have, as you may have noticed, no belief in "neutrality" or "harman curves" as absolutes. I go for musical tonality, and optimal tonality differs for different music. 

But positions stated, I am interested in which experiences people have had with different tonal tweaks -- everything from cable type to tube/ss to plain eq.


----------



## paradoxper

Solan said:


> Point taken and pun appreciated.
> 
> We do also walk in different herds. For let's admit it, though we do follow our own tastes, we also follow the prevalent advice in the herd. In the studio end, some engineers regard V76 as the holy grail whereas others have not heard of it. Just like in head-fi. So I guess I should also speak of sub-herds.
> 
> ...


Yes, it's not so cut and dry in anything. 

It may be interesting to start a larger discussion of why don't audiophiles employ EQ. In that, a broader scope than just DAW > plug-in, emulation.
It's a complicated chain, certainly. I would ask considering the compulsive and deep-reaching potential nature of the audiophile.


----------



## DJJEZ

Curious how many other people toe in/out their 1266TC? It's alot more uncomfortable but makes the bass totally insane lol


----------



## Ciggavelli

DJJEZ said:


> Curious how many other people toe in/out their 1266TC? It's alot more uncomfortable but makes the bass totally insane lol


I definitely do that (but the other way). There’s a fine line though. Toe out too much and the bass gets loose. Toe out just right and you have subwoofers in your ears  

The only other headphones with that much bass are the Fostex th900mk2. Though, the TCs toed out are the winners. You can drive the th900mk2s off a DragonFly though


----------



## Slim1970

DJJEZ said:


> Curious how many other people toe in/out their 1266TC? It's alot more uncomfortable but makes the bass totally insane lol


I do, but not to that degree. You definitely like your bass, haha.


----------



## DJJEZ

Ciggavelli said:


> I definitely do that (but the other way). There’s a fine line though. Toe out too much and the bass gets loose. Toe out just right and you have subwoofers in your ears
> 
> The only other headphones with that much bass are the Fostex th900mk2. Though, the TCs toed out are the winners. You can drive the th900mk2s off a DragonFly though


It's just too much fun with them toe'd out I barely listen anymore with them perfectly straight. My jaw is literally on the floor every song from the bass lol


----------



## tholt

DJJEZ said:


> It's just too much fun with them toe'd out I barely listen anymore with them perfectly straight. My jaw is literally on the floor every song from the bass lol


Have you played with rotating the ear cups? Putting the seam at 3 and 9 oclock (or even more extreme) will increase the air gap in the back = more bass.


----------



## DJJEZ (Aug 31, 2021)

tholt said:


> Have you played with rotating the ear cups? Putting the seam at 3 and 9 oclock (or even more extreme) will increase the air gap in the back = more bass.


Initially I thought 1pm was the best but after experimenting, 3pm seems to be the best bass and that's where I keep it. I will try 9pm again and get back to you with what I think.

Curious what everyone else is using?


----------



## Ciggavelli

DJJEZ said:


> Initially I thought 1pm was the best but after experimenting, 3pm seems to be the best bass and that's where I keep it. I will try 9pm again and get back to you with what I think.
> 
> Curious what everyone else is using?


2 and 10. Toe out with the back of the earpads touching your head. It allows for a ton of bass and the headphones move around less. I have a big head, so I’m not sure if that is interacting with everything though


----------



## DJJEZ

Ciggavelli said:


> 2 and 10. Toe out with the back of the earpads touching your head. It allows for a ton of bass and the headphones move around less. I have a big head, so I’m not sure if that is interacting with everything though


Have you bent the frame at all?


----------



## Ciggavelli

DJJEZ said:


> Have you bent the frame at all?


Yes, I did bend it outward. I had to bend it with the OG headband because it was pretty tight. Now with the new headband, I just went up one size on the o-rings. It fits pretty well


----------



## jlbrach

this is what makes the abyss so different...the ability to change the sound appreciably...only the sr1a allows the same as far as I know


----------



## tholt

DJJEZ said:


> Initially I thought 1pm was the best but after experimenting, 3pm seems to be the best bass and that's where I keep it. I will try 9pm again and get back to you with what I think.
> 
> Curious what everyone else is using?



I also have mine at 3 and 9 and slightly toed in toward the front, which after a ton of experimenting is the best general setting for me. Interestingly with the Phi, having the pads at 3 and 9 would result in a lot of bass distortion, but not so with the TC.

I find there are pros and cons to most of the typical positions for the pads. As I rotate the pad seams toward vertical I get a slightly fuller and intimate sound but lose some airiness, soundstaging and bass.



jlbrach said:


> this is what makes the abyss so different...the ability to change the sound appreciably...only the sr1a allows the same as far as I know


True and unique. These headphones are endlessly tweakable.


----------



## Solan (Sep 1, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> 2 and 10. Toe out with the back of the earpads touching your head. It allows for a ton of bass and the headphones move around less. I have a big head, so I’m not sure if that is interacting with everything though


Since I have a bulbous head: 5 and 11 here, for bass, so that the opening is towards my jaw. I have had fun testing real deep bass, below audible, and have had some skull rattling at 8Hz.

For regular listening almost the opposite, as the 1266 is no bass wimp even then.


----------



## smutnyjoe (Sep 1, 2021)

A new user of the Abyss 1266 Phi TC here. Listening directly from TT2. I've listened for two weeks by now and I'm really impressed how detailed, spacious and punchy can headphones be. Switching from Meze Empyrean was like changing the low resolution to 4k on youtube 

I have a big head and I felt that o-rings are too small for me. Even after finding my best fit for both comfort and sound, after manually stretching the speakers, just 1-2mm from my head, the improvement was significant. I ordered bigger o-rings and the 1266s became the greatest miracle I've ever experienced in my audiophile life


----------



## Sajid Amit

smutnyjoe said:


> A new user of the Abyss 1266 Phi TC here. Listening directly from TT2. I've listened for two weeks by now and I'm really impressed how detailed, spacious and punchy can headphones be. Switching from Meze Empyrean was like changing the low resolution to 4k on youtube
> 
> I have a big head and I felt that o-rings are too small for me. Even after finding my best fit for both comfort and sound, after manually stretching the speakers, just 1-2mm from my head, the improvement was significant. I ordered bigger o-rings and the 1266s became the greatest miracle I've ever experienced in my audiophile life


Congrats. Welcome to the TC, lol. 

Been rocking to it all day today. 

On a different and unrelated note, how did you like the M8? Sold it off? 

Now back to the TC.


----------



## Solan

smutnyjoe said:


> I have a big head and I felt that o-rings are too small for me. Even after finding my best fit for both comfort and sound, after manually stretching the speakers, just 1-2mm from my head, the improvement was significant. I ordered bigger o-rings and the 1266s became the greatest miracle I've ever experienced in my audiophile life


Welcome to the Audiophile Bighead Club.


----------



## cangle

DJJEZ said:


> Curious what everyone else is using?


My pads are not oriented symmetrically as my ears are not symmetrical either (one is higher than the other). On the left side the seam of the pad is facing 3 and on the right the seam is facing 10. This creates an even seal towards the bottom of the pads which gives me the most consistent bass response. I toe out slightly to open the front of the pads and get a bit more bass. I don't toe in cause that squishes my head but I do like how that moves the sound in front a bit it's just not conformable to leave it like that


----------



## smutnyjoe

Sajid Amit said:


> Congrats. Welcome to the TC, lol.
> 
> Been rocking to it all day today.
> 
> ...


I liked it, both the sound and the build quality, but it turned out that I cannot find much usage of a DAP in my life. I work mostly at home (software architect), sometimes at the office, when it is easier to use Hugo2. Hugo2 produces a bit more refined sound, but it has no streaming/dap functionalities. However, it does not matter in my use case. I realized that I much more prefer using my bt headset (bose nc700) on the street, exclusively for calls and audiobook listening than carrying a brick in the pocket lol 
Comparing H2, M8, and some other hi-end DAPs, I had to focus to hear a difference. However, after buying Chord TT2.. holy s**t, what an improvement! An authority to drive any IEM or HP is completely from a different league. That's why I landed on TT2 and H2 (well, at least when @ChordElectronics finally starts servicing my H2 and sends it back to me).
I hope that helped @Sajid Amit


Going back to 1266s, I've read that some of you say that it requires a lot of power. My experience is similar to what Passion for Sound presented in his last review though: that if you have enough power to drive some HP, then you only can change the sound signature by using a different or better amp. I hesitate from introducing an external amp, as I love the clarity and resolution that TT2 provides and I expect that any addition to my chain would decrease it (ofc, not saying that the overall music experience couldn't be better though!). However, it's a long time since I used an external amp (and I've never had a really hi-end >3k amp), so I'm open to experimenting.


----------



## lumdicks

smutnyjoe said:


> I liked it, both the sound and the build quality, but it turned out that I cannot find much usage of a DAP in my life. I work mostly at home (software architect), sometimes at the office, when it is easier to use Hugo2. Hugo2 produces a bit more refined sound, but it has no streaming/dap functionalities. However, it does not matter in my use case. I realized that I much more prefer using my bt headset (bose nc700) on the street, exclusively for calls and audiobook listening than carrying a brick in the pocket lol
> Comparing H2, M8, and some other hi-end DAPs, I had to focus to hear a difference. However, after buying Chord TT2.. holy s**t, what an improvement! An authority to drive any IEM or HP is completely from a different league. That's why I landed on TT2 and H2 (well, at least when @ChordElectronics finally starts servicing my H2 and sends it back to me).
> I hope that helped @Sajid Amit
> 
> ...


You may audition Benchmark HPA4 which is perfectly colourless and neutral, and not altering the sound signature of Chord TT2 at all in my experience.


----------



## cangle

lumdicks said:


> You may audition Benchmark HPA4 which is perfectly colourless and neutral, and not altering the sound signature of Chord TT2 at all in my experience.


I think the Headamp GSX Mk2 is an option. I believe @Slim1970 uses one with a Dave to not sacrifice any of the transparency of the dac.


----------



## number1sixerfan

smutnyjoe said:


> I liked it, both the sound and the build quality, but it turned out that I cannot find much usage of a DAP in my life. I work mostly at home (software architect), sometimes at the office, when it is easier to use Hugo2. Hugo2 produces a bit more refined sound, but it has no streaming/dap functionalities. However, it does not matter in my use case. I realized that I much more prefer using my bt headset (bose nc700) on the street, exclusively for calls and audiobook listening than carrying a brick in the pocket lol
> Comparing H2, M8, and some other hi-end DAPs, I had to focus to hear a difference. However, after buying Chord TT2.. holy s**t, what an improvement! An authority to drive any IEM or HP is completely from a different league. That's why I landed on TT2 and H2 (well, at least when @ChordElectronics finally starts servicing my H2 and sends it back to me).
> I hope that helped @Sajid Amit
> 
> ...



TT2 really should have enough power, so if you aren't experiencing any kind of deficiency, I wouldn't think you need an additional amp. As far as the transparency, like mentioned above, use a high quality transparent external amp and any difference in transparency should be minimum to barely discernible.


----------



## JLoud

I used the GSX mkii and it is very transparent. Plenty of power and looks good too! Can't comment on the TT2, opinions seem to vary on wether it has enough power.


----------



## ra990

JLoud said:


> I used the GSX mkii and it is very transparent. Plenty of power and looks good too! Can't comment on the TT2, opinions seem to vary on wether it has enough power.


TT2 for the Abyss? Only thing in question is the single ended output power, which Rob Watts, and a few of us have confirmed has enough juice. The XLR balanced outs are capable of driving speakers and have more than ample power for the Abyss (and high current delivery thanks to the supercaps).


----------



## paradoxper (Sep 1, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> 2 and 10. Toe out with the back of the earpads touching your head. It allows for a ton of bass and the headphones move around less. I have a big head, so I’m not sure if that is interacting with everything though


I feel this is likely the best setting for most. I like 1 and 11 also with a slight toe-out to bring a slightly tighter bass response comparatively.
I do feel like past 3 you start drowning out the bass and ride the line of distortion frequently.

Do you guys use a opening reference track to ensure your mood suites correct fitment settings?

I always use Lorn - Ask The Dust - Ghosst to ensure I'm happy with the bass response.


----------



## jlbrach

this is a very convincing discussion of amp and power with the susvara.....well laid out discussion


----------



## smutnyjoe (Sep 1, 2021)

Just to clarify, I believe (before adding an amp) that TT2 is powerful enough for TC. I use it on -30 to -17 (high gain) depending on the track.
My opinions are similar to the ones presented in the video above.
The only reason I'm considering introducing anything to my chain would be to make vocals more life-like. They are super-detailed and all, but seem a bit artificial to me. Tomorrow I'll get back my Arctic Cables cable after retermination, I cannot wait to see how that influences the sound.


----------



## mammal

smutnyjoe said:


> Just to clarify, I believe (before adding an amp) that TT2 is powerful enough for TC. I use it on -30 to -17 (high gain) depending on the track.


TT2 is absolutely capable of driving 1266, no issues with power.


smutnyjoe said:


> The only reason I'm considering introducing anything to my chain would be to make vocals more life-like. They are super-detailed and all, but seem a bit artificial to me.


I had the same problem, improved it by changing TT2 to dCS Bartok and later added Riviera AIC-10 for some tube magic. Now 1266's mids are no longer lacking.


----------



## smutnyjoe

mammal said:


> TT2 is absolutely capable of driving 1266, no issues with power.
> 
> I had the same problem, improved it by changing TT2 to dCS Bartok and later added Riviera AIC-10 for some tube magic. Now 1266's mids are no longer lacking.


Thanks for your idea.
It's quite expensive way of fixing the mids of TT2+TC though


----------



## Dynamo5561

So got my 1266 OG a couple days ago and I must say it is a perfect companion to the TC. They are different enough to enjoy rotational listening and at the same time they keep the same sound identity for which I love Abyss for


----------



## smutnyjoe

Dynamo5561 said:


> So got my 1266 OG a couple days ago and I must say it is a perfect companion to the TC. They are different enough to enjoy rotational listening and at the same time they keep the same sound identity for which I love Abyss for


Nice stands for looks and for the protection from dust etc. Where did you get them?


----------



## MWeston

Dynamo5561 said:


> So got my 1266 OG a couple days ago and I must say it is a perfect companion to the TC. They are different enough to enjoy rotational listening and at the same time they keep the same sound identity for which I love Abyss for


Did you 3D print some kind of ring to go over the screw heads on the back of the drivers?  Your TCs look different, more so than just the camera angle could hide.  They look great though!


----------



## Dynamo5561

MWeston said:


> Did you 3D print some kind of ring to go over the screw heads on the back of the drivers? Your TCs look different, more so than just the camera angle could hide. They look great though!


Yes I have 3D printed edge protectors and also I have a 3D printed pad system with vents. Also the pads are different. I am fine tuining them at the moment, once I am finished I will provide the files here. Also I am working on a different headband.


----------



## MWeston

Dynamo5561 said:


> Yes I have 3D printed edge protectors and also I have a 3D printed pad system with vents. Also the pads are different. I am fine tuining them at the moment, once I am finished I will provide the files here. Also I am working on a different headband.


Oh wow, that is so cool!  I'm sure lots of people will be very interested to read how the sound changes, myself included.  I think part of upgrade-itis is getting used to a sound so a pad swap would be a great way to refresh my listening and only make it better without spending thousands of dollars again!


----------



## walakalulu

Anyone tried the 1266 with the Manley amp? Is it up to the job as I have the amp and am considering the cans.


----------



## ufospls2 (Sep 2, 2021)

OK, so I just wanted to throw this out there, for anyone who is maybe struggling with comfort using the AB1266. Its not something I have ever personally really struggled with, but I know that there are those who do, so I hope this helps.

I've been trying out various ZMF pads I had with my TCs, and ended up buying a pair of Universe Hybrid Perforated pads. (I tried Verite Lambskin perforted, Universe Lambskin Perforated, Universe Suede Perforated, and settled on Universe Hybrid as the best mix of SQ and Comfort.)

I'm still not 100% sure, but I think in terms of sonics, they work either as good, or better (with trade offs I suppose) than the stock pads. Perhaps being more in line with the original pads, than the CC/TC pads.

However, in terms of comfort, its levels above.

I was worried that they wouldn't provide the correct dampening for the drivers, but they certainly seem to.

If you want to try, in a non destructive manner, different pads with your TCs. Get some sellotape, (Scotch Tape, Office Tape) create rings, so it is double sided. In my experiments I've been using 4 pieces north south east west.

Certainly worth a shot for those struggling with comfort. Hope it helps.


----------



## SuperBurrito

ufospls2 said:


> OK, so I just wanted to throw this out there, for anyone who is maybe struggling with comfort using the AB1266. Its not something I have ever personally really struggled with, but I know that there are those who do, so I hope this helps.
> 
> I've been trying out various ZMF pads I had with my TCs, and ended up buying a pair of Universe Hybrid Perforated pads.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing this info.  For those of us who don't know, what is cello tape?
And assuming you want to use the ZMF pads indefinitely, do you just keep them taped on?


----------



## ufospls2 (Sep 2, 2021)

SuperBurrito said:


> Thanks for sharing this info.  For those of us who don't know, what is cello tape?
> And assuming you want to use the ZMF pads indefinitely, do you just keep them taped on?



Ah, apologies. Thats my Scottish upbringing coming out, and I spelt it wrong to add to the confusion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sellotape

Basically, any sort of office tape (commonly known as Scotch tape in North America) will work, and not leave any residue. I wouldn't use Duct tape though, or anything heavy duty.

If you like how the pads feel and sound, I would recommend buying some double sided tape from amazon as a more permanent solution, and just replace it whenever it wears out. Something similar to the below, don't go for gorilla glue tape or anything heavy duty, just in case.

https://www.amazon.ca/Adhesive-Mult...keywords=Two+Sided+Tape&qid=1630629365&sr=8-9

https://www.amazon.ca/BYUEE-Double-...eywords=Two+Sided+Tape&qid=1630629365&sr=8-13


----------



## Dynamo5561

ufospls2 said:


> OK, so I just wanted to throw this out there, for anyone who is maybe struggling with comfort using the AB1266. Its not something I have ever personally really struggled with, but I know that there are those who do, so I hope this helps.
> 
> I've been trying out various ZMF pads I had with my TCs, and ended up buying a pair of Universe Hybrid Perforated pads. (I tried Verite Lambskin perforted, Universe Lambskin Perforated, Universe Suede Perforated, and settled on Universe Hybrid as the best mix of SQ and Comfort.)
> 
> ...



Maybe I can give some insights too. 

For comparison I have the AB1266 OG with the thin strap and the PHI TC with the new headband. 

I personally use thicker pads in order to create some clamp force so not all weight is distributed only on your upper head through the headband. But thicker pads will close the chamber, which I find is negtively impacting the sound quality. Therefore I created a pad system with vents to compensate for that. 





I also noticed that the new headband has much less contact area on your head than the old one (red area in the picture), because the seams on the edges combined with the tractive force of the rubber rings curl the leather. I basically find the older strap to do a better job in distributing the weight as the contact area is much bigger. But it is not as soft.





My idea is to create a wider headband with a softer Leather and a different seam method on the edges, and maybe I also need to wire the rubber band throug the whole headband in order to avoid curling. I also want to add some wool into the headband for softness, but I really need to test out some variants to see what works. The main puropose is to extend the surface that has contact with your head and make it as soft as possible.


----------



## rangerid

walakalulu said:


> Anyone tried the 1266 with the Manley amp? Is it up to the job as I have the amp and am considering the cans.


I don't find the Manley to play well with hard to drive planars. 1266 sounds just okay with it but does not do it justice, you're getting maybe 80-85% compared to something with more power.


----------



## tholt

Dynamo5561 said:


> I personally use thicker pads in order to create some clamp force so not all weight is distributed only on your upper head through the headband. But thicker pads will close the chamber, which I find is negtively impacting the sound quality. Therefore I created a pad system with vents to compensate for that.


Check this thread maybe a year or so back (roughly. I'm horrible w time but it was a long while). IIRC there was a guy who 3D printed spacers such as the ones you're toying with, if interested. And I believe he even posted downloadable files of what he did. Some of the peeps who have been here long enough might remember.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

For those driving the TC from Chord TT2 speaker output - does the TT2 transmit a signal from the single ended port at the same time? I'd like to use this for powering a woojer/subpak, so it would be great to know. Thanks.


----------



## DJJEZ

Hoegaardener70 said:


> For those driving the TC from Chord TT2 speaker output - does the TT2 transmit a signal from the single ended port at the same time? I'd like to use this for powering a woojer/subpak, so it would be great to know. Thanks.


yes it does


----------



## Hoegaardener70

DJJEZ said:


> yes it does


Thank you. Tempted to get one now ...


----------



## ziggy72

I've been searching for the last couple of months for a replacement headphone amplifier for my Auralic Taurus mkii as it was running out of steam at higher volume and on certain music driving my ab1266 cc.
I was looking for a used Formula S, Headtrip or Benchmark hpa4 but came across a Luxman P-750u for sale and after doing a bit of reading found some favourable reviews when paired with the Abyss headphones so I negotiated a fee with the seller and decided to take a chance. It's just over a year old and I managed to get it for half the price of a new one and it looks brand new.
I've been listening to it the last couple of evenings and to say I'm impressed is an understatement, it has so much drive and authority to go with the smoothness, the sound has more weight and has filled out considerably as well as having excellent detail and clarity. 
It's a huge unit and is extremely heavy but the build and finish is superb. It seems to partner my Auralic Vega G2 and Leo Master clock well too.
One small issue I have with the Abyss headphones which forum members may be able to give me some advice with is that if I don't use the headphones for about a week the right hand drive unit has developed a 2 second delay on working compared to the left driver, after it comes on it stays working no problem. I'm just a bit worried in case one day the right driver fails completely?


----------



## Slim1970

ziggy72 said:


> I've been searching for the last couple of months for a replacement headphone amplifier for my Auralic Taurus mkii as it was running out of steam at higher volume and on certain music driving my ab1266 cc.
> I was looking for a used Formula S, Headtrip or Benchmark hpa4 but came across a Luxman P-750u for sale and after doing a bit of reading found some favourable reviews when paired with the Abyss headphones so I negotiated a fee with the seller and decided to take a chance. It's just over a year old and I managed to get it for half the price of a new one and it looks brand new.
> I've been listening to it the last couple of evenings and to say I'm impressed is an understatement, it has so much drive and authority to go with the smoothness, the sound has more weight and has filled out considerably as well as having excellent detail and clarity.
> It's a huge unit and is extremely heavy but the build and finish is superb. It seems to partner my Auralic Vega G2 and Leo Master clock well too.
> One small issue I have with the Abyss headphones which forum members may be able to give me some advice with is that if I don't use the headphones for about a week the right hand drive unit has developed a 2 second delay on working compared to the left driver, after it comes on it stays working no problem. I'm just a bit worried in case one day the right driver fails completely?


As a former Luxman P-750u owner I say congrats on the purchase. The P-750u is an outstanding performer with every headphone.


----------



## treebug

Slim1970 said:


> As a former Luxman P-750u owner I say congrats on the purchase. The P-750u is an outstanding performer with every headphone.


+1
Sadly, Japanese market only now.


----------



## stemiki

To fully enjoy the super bass of Abyss I recommend this album and in particular the song n. 5. 

Impressive!


----------



## Roasty

ziggy72 said:


> One small issue I have with the Abyss headphones which forum members may be able to give me some advice with is that if I don't use the headphones for about a week the right hand drive unit has developed a 2 second delay on working compared to the left driver, after it comes on it stays working no problem. I'm just a bit worried in case one day the right driver fails completely?



It's been a while since this has been mentioned on this thread. It has happened to a few of us (some variant or another eg low volume on one side, no music on one side until turning up volume knob until the driver "wakes up" etc etc). I sent mine back to Abyss for repair and thankfully it has not happened since.


----------



## ziggy72

Thanks for the information, that is what is happening as it immediately wakes up when I turn up the volume control. It's only started doing this in the last month. 
I was thinking of trading them for a pair of TC's until the recent issue put that idea on hold.


----------



## rmsanger

Odd question... I have the Phi TC as my primary hp but looking to upgrade from the rest of my hps to another flagship to pair with it.  I currently have the OG clear, LCD3F, LCDX, HP3s.    I've only had the chance to demo the LCD4 and Utopias for a short period of time and liked them both.   Which of the flagships (other than Sus) do you find to be a great pairing or which others do things much differently than Phi TC which would make them a good pair?   I'm thinking of Final D8k pro, Utopia, LCD4, Verite Closed, Raal SR1A...


----------



## cangle

rmsanger said:


> Odd question... I have the Phi TC as my primary hp but looking to upgrade from the rest of my hps to another flagship to pair with it.  I currently have the OG clear, LCD3F, LCDX, HP3s.    I've only had the chance to demo the LCD4 and Utopias for a short period of time and liked them both.   Which of the flagships (other than Sus) do you find to be a great pairing or which others do things much differently than Phi TC which would make them a good pair?   I'm thinking of Final D8k pro, Utopia, LCD4, Verite Closed, Raal SR1A...


I own the LCD-4z and think that is too similar to the 1266. To my ears the tonality between the two is about the same although the mids on the LCD-4 are a bit more forward. However the 1266 out-resolves it and is just better in most areas. For those reasons I would not get the LCD-4 or 4z to pair with the 1266. I haven't heard any of the others on your list but if I had could choose one of those to try it would probably be the Verite closed or the sr1a.


----------



## paradoxper (Sep 5, 2021)

rmsanger said:


> Odd question... I have the Phi TC as my primary hp but looking to upgrade from the rest of my hps to another flagship to pair with it.  I currently have the OG clear, LCD3F, LCDX, HP3s.    I've only had the chance to demo the LCD4 and Utopias for a short period of time and liked them both.   Which of the flagships (other than Sus) do you find to be a great pairing or which others do things much differently than Phi TC which would make them a good pair?   I'm thinking of Final D8k pro, Utopia, LCD4, Verite Closed, Raal SR1A...


You might provide what you feel is lacking in the TC or what sound characteristics you may be looking for to complement the TC.

To supplement the Clear and 3F, I might choose VC blindly as its presentation is quite unique and its sound quality is rather saturated compared to anything you are currently using.


----------



## Slim1970

rmsanger said:


> Odd question... I have the Phi TC as my primary hp but looking to upgrade from the rest of my hps to another flagship to pair with it.  I currently have the OG clear, LCD3F, LCDX, HP3s.    I've only had the chance to demo the LCD4 and Utopias for a short period of time and liked them both.   Which of the flagships (other than Sus) do you find to be a great pairing or which others do things much differently than Phi TC which would make them a good pair?   I'm thinking of Final D8k pro, Utopia, LCD4, Verite Closed, Raal SR1A...


Of those headphones you listed, the Raal's would definitely give you a different sound and a different listening experience. I also like the Utopia's for their precision and dynamics. I'll know more about the D8K Pro's as I have a set incoming.


----------



## tholt

Slim1970 said:


> I'll know more about the D8K Pro's as I have a set incoming.


Interested in your impressions vs the TC. The D8k and D8kP have been on the fringe of my radar for a while.


----------



## Slim1970

tholt said:


> Interested in your impressions vs the TC. The D8k and D8kP have been on the fringe of my radar for a while.


Mine too, I'm just now getting around to trying the D8K Pro's. It's been a long time coming.


----------



## drew911d

I'm a few pages behind, but I wanted to share.  A Flock Of Seagulls did some re-recordings of their hits with the Prague Philharmonic Orchestra, and most recently with the Slovenian Symphonic Film Orchestra.  Just recently acquired both and both are splendid on the Abyss.


----------



## Sajid Amit

tholt said:


> Interested in your impressions vs the TC. The D8k and D8kP have been on the fringe of my radar for a while.


I owned the D8000, think it’s a very underrated HP (in its price category), but such a clear notch or two below the TC, that I sold it.

As per @paradoxper it will be easier to recommend a complementary HP if you share what you find missing with the TC.


----------



## leftside

rmsanger said:


> Odd question... I have the Phi TC as my primary hp but looking to upgrade from the rest of my hps to another flagship to pair with it.  I currently have the OG clear, LCD3F, LCDX, HP3s.    I've only had the chance to demo the LCD4 and Utopias for a short period of time and liked them both.   Which of the flagships (other than Sus) do you find to be a great pairing or which others do things much differently than Phi TC which would make them a good pair?   I'm thinking of Final D8k pro, Utopia, LCD4, Verite Closed, Raal SR1A...


I also have the LCD4 in addition to the Phi TC. The Phi TC is a better headphone (and this is coming from someone who is a huge Audeze fan having upgraded through the chain from LCD2 to LCD3 to LCD4), but I do still listen to the LCD4 sometimes. It is a more intimate and warmer experience. The bass is better with the Phi TC, but there is still something extremely pleasing about the bass with the LCD4. LCD4 was endgame for me. Until I listened to the Abyss Phi TC for a few weeks. I do find the amp is very important with both these sets of headphones. The better the amp, the more you'll get out of these headphones. And of course not all amps are a good match for our 47 ohms and low sensitivity Phi TC's.


----------



## vonBaron

Yep, LCD-4 is very pleasant headphones to listen. Very relaxing yet engaging sound.


----------



## mitchb

I own both the LCD4 headphones and the Phi TC being run by my Niimbus US5 Pro and although both headphones are nice the Phi TC are the better sounding headphones.


----------



## rmsanger

paradoxper said:


> You might provide what you feel is lacking in the TC or what sound characteristics you may be looking for to complement the TC.
> 
> To supplement the Clear and 3F, I might choose VC blindly as its presentation is quite unique and its sound quality is rather saturated compared to anything you are currently using.


I think this is the choice to go with VC is probably what I need as the VC will do something very differently than anything I currently have; which is what I'm looking for.

I wanted to avoid the Phi TC vs. X, Y, Z discussion or going down the path of what do you like about the Phi TC because all owner will want to get in a debate.  If there is a weakness it's in the Mids and the VC will give you a presentation of exactly what the TC does not do.


----------



## leftside

rmsanger said:


> I think this is the choice to go with VC is probably what I need as the VC will do something very differently than anything I currently have; which is what I'm looking for.
> 
> I wanted to avoid the Phi TC vs. X, Y, Z discussion or going down the path of what do you like about the Phi TC because all owner will want to get in a debate.  If there is a weakness it's in the Mids and the VC will give you a presentation of exactly what the TC does not do.


Seems most Phi TC owners are in agreement. Well on this particular thread anyway


----------



## ken6217

What’s the VC?


----------



## rmsanger

ken6217 said:


> What’s the VC?


https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/products/verite-closed


----------



## ken6217

Thanks. That was my assumption but I wasn’t certain.


----------



## paradoxper (Sep 6, 2021)

rmsanger said:


> I think this is the choice to go with VC is probably what I need as the VC will do something very differently than anything I currently have; which is what I'm looking for.
> 
> I wanted to avoid the Phi TC vs. X, Y, Z discussion or going down the path of what do you like about the Phi TC because all owner will want to get in a debate.  If there is a weakness it's in the Mids and the VC will give you a presentation of exactly what the TC does not do.


There is no vs X Y Z. TC is the best overall headphone. You may address the mid recession with a tube amp which isn't a complete solution but you can ameliorate and flesh them out. This is at a considerable cost as it's a tricky game to mate the TC to sufficient output drive coupled with minimal tube concession (roundness, softening).

But often, the audiophile nervosa aims to maximize a change of pace which I understand. My ethos would be to bottleneck the TC -- if it is your jam.


----------



## mitchb

I find my Niimbus amp matches the TC’s well.


----------



## jlbrach

paradoxper said:


> There is no vs X Y Z. TC is the best overall headphone. You may address the mid recession with a tube amp which isn't a complete solution but you can ameliorate and flesh them out. This is at a considerable cost as it's a tricky game to mate the TC to sufficient output drive coupled with minimal tube concession (roundness, softening).
> 
> But often, the audiophile nervosa aims to maximize a change of pace which I understand. My ethos would be to bottleneck the TC -- if it is your jam.


there simply is no best HP and I say that as an owner of the TC who loves it.....


----------



## eee1111

paradoxper said:


> There is no vs X Y Z. TC is the best overall headphone. You may address the mid recession with a tube amp which isn't a complete solution but you can ameliorate and flesh them out. This is at a considerable cost as it's a tricky game to mate the TC to sufficient output drive coupled with minimal tube concession (roundness, softening).
> 
> But often, the audiophile nervosa aims to maximize a change of pace which I understand. My ethos would be to bottleneck the TC -- if it is your jam.


At the end of the day it’s gonna be an opinion. Our ears can be pretty different and like different qualities I guess. And I also have the TC


----------



## rmsanger

Slim1970 said:


> Of those headphones you listed, the Raal's would definitely give you a different sound and a different listening experience. I also like the Utopia's for their precision and dynamics. I'll know more about the D8K Pro's as I have a set incoming.


If you end up posting your thoughts in the d8k thread could you @ me ?  Would Like to hear your feedback.  I’m leaning toward VC due to closed back and they are almost pieces of art but I’m equally curious about d8k pro.


----------



## DJJEZ

Slim1970 said:


> Of those headphones you listed, the Raal's would definitely give you a different sound and a different listening experience. I also like the Utopia's for their precision and dynamics. _*I'll know more about the D8K Pro's as I have a set incoming.*_


What made you choose the pro version over the regular?


----------



## Slim1970

DJJEZ said:


> What made you choose the pro version over the regular?


I guess I'm looking for a more detailed sound. Most of my headphones are high resolution and I figured I'd like the D8K Pro's a bit more since they offer more clarity.


----------



## Slim1970

rmsanger said:


> If you end up posting your thoughts in the d8k thread could you @ me ?  Would Like to hear your feedback.  I’m leaning toward VC due to closed back and they are almost pieces of art but I’m equally curious about d8k pro.


Will do!


----------



## tholt

Sajid Amit said:


> I owned the D8000, think it’s a very underrated HP (in its price category), but such a clear notch or two below the TC, that I sold it.


Appreciate your impression. That seems to be the general consensus I get from reading


----------



## mitchb

The TC’s are beautiful. I played my LCD4 headphones yesterday and although very nice my TC’s are nicer. The LCD4 headphones are a nice warm sounding headphones that are fun and easy to listen to but the Abyss are quite a bit better sounding.


----------



## ufospls2

mitchb said:


> The TC’s are beautiful. I played my LCD4 headphones yesterday and although very nice my TC’s are nicer. The LCD4 headphones are a nice warm sounding headphones that are fun and easy to listen to but the Abyss are quite a bit better sounding.



Thats great to hear you are enjoying them man : )


----------



## Dynamo5561

rmsanger said:


> I think this is the choice to go with VC is probably what I need as the VC will do something very differently than anything I currently have; which is what I'm looking for.
> 
> I wanted to avoid the Phi TC vs. X, Y, Z discussion or going down the path of what do you like about the Phi TC because all owner will want to get in a debate. If there is a weakness it's in the Mids and the VC will give you a presentation of exactly what the TC does not do.


I fully endorse much of what you say. Just recently got a VC and it is such a nice complement to the 1266. Defintely worth trying out. I find the 5-6KHZ peak fatiguing and not doing so well with bad recordings but overall I really like it. And it took the last available headphone slot so I could finish my over-ear journey


----------



## BTD1

I’m thinking of selling my Abyss Phi TC on eBay but have never sold headphones before.  Purchased in 2020   How are receipts handled in such a matter?  I don’t want to give away personal information. They are fine but I don’t want any hassles.   Any advice appreciated.


----------



## JLoud

I would sell here instead of eBay. Save all of the fees which on an item this expensive is substantial. I have sold/bought many items in the price range of the TC with no issues.


----------



## eee1111

BTD1 said:


> I’m thinking of selling my Abyss Phi TC on eBay but have never sold headphones before.  Purchased in 2020   How are receipts handled in such a matter?  I don’t want to give away personal information. They are fine but I don’t want any hassles.   Any advice appreciated.


Don’t do ebay.
It’s a huge gamble you could get scammed.


----------



## ken6217

List it on Head-fi and USA Audiomart. USA Audiomart has a bigger audience and also big ticket components. It’s free. For $20.00 though they will make it a featured Ad on the front page with a picture.


----------



## BassicScience

eee1111 said:


> Don’t do ebay.
> It’s a huge gamble you could get scammed.


Not to get OT, but you can get scammed selling online anywhere. If you follow the rules, eBay has seller protections that I doubt exist here.

Regarding getting paid, eBay has a newish thing called Managed Payments and you do have to give them your bank account info where they'll directly transfer proceeds. This is no different than PayPal was, although I think PP has the option of spending your funds with a debit card. 

Finally, as an eBay seller of 20+ years, I'd recommend getting a postal box to use as a return address, as well as to have purchased items delivered. I don't want strangers knowing where I live. YMMV.


----------



## BTD1

BassicScience said:


> Not to get OT, but you can get scammed selling online anywhere. If you follow the rules, eBay has seller protections that I doubt exist here.
> 
> Regarding getting paid, eBay has a newish thing called Managed Payments and you do have to give them your bank account info where they'll directly transfer proceeds. This is no different than PayPal was, although I think PP has the option of spending your funds with a debit card.
> 
> Finally, as an eBay seller of 20+ years, I'd recommend getting a postal box to use as a return address, as well as to have purchased items delivered. I don't want strangers knowing where I live. YMMV.


My thanks to all of you who responded to my questions regarding selling.  Sadly, it seems like it's a Wild West out there with scammers around every corner.  I think I will hold on to these Abyss headphones and take my time figuring this out.  Fortunately, I don't need the funds so I'll wait.


----------



## ra990

I've had almost a 100 transactions on this site, not one issue. Everyone I deal with is a trusted member. If there are any new members, I make sure to reach out to them to get a feel for anything fishy. Ebay and PayPal fees are no bueno. USA Audio Mart has been good too, I recently started listing there as well.


----------



## paradoxper (Sep 7, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> there simply is no best HP and I say that as an owner of the TC who loves it.....


There can be. With the Primavera, the TC no longer has such a mid recession fault.

With the CFA3, the Susvara has a more dynamic transient response.

So I may solve for x and close the gaps.

The TC is the best overall headphone I've heard.

SGL and Omega clone out of my former DIY T2 were the only headphones that sounded as complete.

I tried with the SR1a, it ain't happening.


----------



## BassicScience

ra990 said:


> I've had almost a 100 transactions on this site, not one issue. Everyone I deal with is a trusted member. If there are any new members, I make sure to reach out to them to get a feel for anything fishy. Ebay and PayPal fees are no bueno. USA Audio Mart has been good too, I recently started listing there as well.


That's great. I've only done a couple of transactions here so far, and both have been extremely pleasant and trouble-free. I've also done hundreds and hundreds of sales on eBay over the past 20+ years, and have never lost a dime to a scammer. Personally, I wouldn't avoid selling online because of FUD. I will grant you that eBay takes a cut, but if you're in a hurry to sell a more esoteric item, it's hard to beat in terms of number of eyeballs. For something as popular as a TC, HeadFi seems like the perfect venue.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

BassicScience said:


> If you follow the rules, eBay has seller protections that I doubt exist here.


Hm, I think not. Ebay has BUYER protection, and that's basically it. The seller seems to be in the losing position, e.g. I sold my mobile phone in the used section and the description/pictures clearly said ... well, "used". Guess what - the buyer returned the mobile phone saying it was not new, she forgot half the packaging and besides the postage I also had to pay for the return. Not the end of the world, but  a big hassle. I am off ebay now unless I have to.


----------



## SuperBurrito (Sep 7, 2021)

BTD1 said:


> My thanks to all of you who responded to my questions regarding selling.  Sadly, it seems like it's a Wild West out there with scammers around every corner.  I think I will hold on to these Abyss headphones and take my time figuring this out.  Fortunately, I don't need the funds so I'll wait.


I've probably done a couple hundred transactions on ebay, Audiogon and headfi over the last 20 years.  Never had any issues.  Just make sure you are using PayPal or another escrow service.  When you use PayPal, they charge a small fee for this, but they guarantee the transaction for both the buyer and the seller.  Also, make sure the funds are cleared before you ship.  Also, you can check the reputation of the buyer, and that should give you some confidence.

I agree that ebay is really focused on buyer protection, not seller protection, so I don't sell there unless I have to.  Good luck!


----------



## dukeskd

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Hm, I think not. Ebay has BUYER protection, and that's basically it. The seller seems to be in the losing position, e.g. I sold my mobile phone in the used section and the description/pictures clearly said ... well, "used". Guess what - the buyer returned the mobile phone saying it was not new, she forgot half the packaging and besides the postage I also had to pay for the return. Not the end of the world, but  a big hassle. I am off ebay now unless I have to.


I agree with this and it is unfortunate.


----------



## BassicScience

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Hm, I think not. Ebay has BUYER protection, and that's basically it. The seller seems to be in the losing position, e.g. I sold my mobile phone in the used section and the description/pictures clearly said ... well, "used". Guess what - the buyer returned the mobile phone saying it was not new, she forgot half the packaging and besides the postage I also had to pay for the return. Not the end of the world, but  a big hassle. I am off ebay now unless I have to.


Again, this is a bit OT, so I'll make this my final post on the topic. eBay DOES have seller protection in place:

https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/get-started/seller-protection.html

Just because you had a bad experience with a negligent buyer doesn't mean that eBay seller protections don't exist or are completely ineffectual. If you sell a headphone on HeadFi and the buyer claims s/he got an empty box and files a chargeback with the credit card company, what do you think the chances are that HeadFi will intervene on your behalf?

I'm out.


----------



## eee1111 (Sep 7, 2021)

BassicScience said:


> Again, this is a bit OT, so I'll make this my final post on the topic. eBay DOES have seller protection in place:
> 
> https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/get-started/seller-protection.html
> 
> ...


Don’t spread false info

EXAMPLE:

You make a listing and sell headphones. A pair of abyss tc. You take pics. You list it. Someone buys it. You package it up. Take it to ups. UPS ships it to the buyer.

Buyer says there were a pair of smashed abyss tc in the box and that the pictures you took were not of the headphones you sent him.

So I’m summary….buyer scams you by saying you sent them something not as you advertised even though you did. Buyer wins. Buyer has protection. Buyer sends you back a broken pair of headphones he had placed in the box. You are screwed.

Ebay is set up to protect buyer first. And it’s abused.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

BassicScience said:


> Again, this is a bit OT, so I'll make this my final post on the topic. eBay DOES have seller protection in place:
> 
> https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/get-started/seller-protection.html
> 
> ...


OK, you are out  ... because? I think it is fair to follow up on posts. Which I do now.

I take head-fi out of the discussion, because luckily the people I met here were kind, professional and smart. But eBay is a completely different matter. Since I had several issues with Ebay (I only cited one) I am very familiar with what you quoted here as seller protection. But if you look at it, the rules are incredibly vague, they all say you can report and ebay will investigate. As my experience and in fact many, many posts  show, eBay will nearly always side with buyers and not with sellers, besides the funky link you posted. Do some research and you will see that sellers feel unprotected, and in fact are unprotected lf you read the fine print. 

Anyway, for the OP, sell on HEAD-FI. It's a great place and pretty secure if you check members' feedback.


----------



## JLoud

I haven't had any issues on Head-Fi, always check out feedback on buyer/seller. eBay has burned me acouple of times. I did win one claim, but it was a hassle. Mind you I have done several hundred transactions on Ebay, so the odds are still pretty good. However fees on eBay for high ticket items is what gets me. And most people interested in $5000 headphones are probably aware of this site or Audiomart.


----------



## BassicScience

eee1111 said:


> Don’t spread false info
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 
> ...


OK, this is annoying, so I will respond. I'm NOT spreading false info. eBay has buyer AND seller protections. The buyer does NOT win every dispute on eBay. Will the seller have to jump through a lot of annoying hoops with eBay to make his/her case? Probably, but if a few thousand dollars are at stake, the time and effort will be worth it. Trust me, I don't love eBay (as a seller or buyer), but you're the one who's misrepresenting reality.


----------



## BassicScience

Hoegaardener70 said:


> *OK, you are out  ... because?* I think it is fair to follow up on posts. Which I do now.
> 
> I take head-fi out of the discussion, because luckily the people I met here were kind, professional and smart. But eBay is a completely different matter. Since I had several issues with Ebay (I only cited one) I am very familiar with what you quoted here as seller protection. But if you look at it, the rules are incredibly vague, they all say you can report and ebay will investigate. As my experience and in fact many, many posts  show, eBay will nearly always side with buyers and not with sellers, besides the funky link you posted. Do some research and you will see that sellers feel unprotected, and in fact are unprotected lf you read the fine print.
> 
> Anyway, for the OP, sell on HEAD-FI. It's a great place and pretty secure if you check members' feedback.


I dunno, maybe this:

*Again, this is a bit OT*_, so I'll make this my final post on the topic._


----------



## eee1111 (Sep 7, 2021)

BassicScience said:


> OK, this is annoying, so I will respond. I'm NOT spreading false info. eBay has buyer AND seller protections. The buyer does NOT win every dispute on eBay. Will the seller have to jump through a lot of annoying hoops with eBay to make his/her case? Probably, but if a few thousand dollars are at stake, the time and effort will be worth it. Trust me, I don't love eBay (as a seller or buyer), but you're the one who's misrepresenting reality.


I’ve been burned. The website is skewed in favor of buyers over sellers. It’s that simple. It’s a gamble.

you can’t win an argument with a buyer who claims item not as described

I sold an iPhone and had one shipped back to me that was smashed. Ebay takes the side of the buyer. You can’t fight it.

you can really get scammed hard on eBay 

look for people on this website with tons of feedback


----------



## Aramg

Mikey99 said:


> I was in the  local headphone shop today and heard a rather unusual request from another customer. He really liked the AB1266, but wanted a “vegan” option - ie, no leather. The shop owner was going to see if he could do a mod, replacing the headband and pads.
> 
> Anyone ever heard of such a thing? Any ideas on how to do it?


Im with you Mikey! Any news from Abyss? Really want a Diana Phi too but would not break my ethics over it


----------



## ufospls2

I know abyss has done earpads in Alcantara as a custom job, not to mention those snakeskin ones on that pink pair from way back. I wouldn't be surprised that, if you are willing to pay, they will do anything you want.


----------



## sahmen

ken6217 said:


> ken6217 said:
> 
> 
> > What’s the VC?
> ...


You're both oh-sooo friggin' wrong!!!

*VC* means one thing, and one thing only : *"Vampire's Coffin"*












*cue up my evil maniacal laugh right about now*


----------



## smutnyjoe

Some time ago I wrote a post that I'm generally satisfied with the TT2 + TC, although I'd like it to sound more _organic_. I've recently reterminated my Arctic Cables Palladium series for use with Abyss, and the results are more than noticeable. I'll report more deeply later. For now, I suspect that you don't need to buy TOTL cable from AC, but maybe just the original 1266's cable is not as good as the producer advertises (and prices) it (1k € if you buy separately).


----------



## Frankie D

smutnyjoe said:


> Some time ago I wrote a post that I'm generally satisfied with the TT2 + TC, although I'd like it to sound more _organic_. I've recently reterminated my Arctic Cables Palladium series for use with Abyss, and the results are more than noticeable. I'll report more deeply later. For now, I suspect that you don't need to buy TOTL cable from AC, but maybe just the original 1266's cable is not as good as the producer advertises (and prices) it (1k € if you buy separately).


My question would be if you ( or anyone) can compare the Arctic Cables Palladium to the Super Conductor on the 1266?  Curious about that comparison.


----------



## smutnyjoe

Frankie D said:


> My question would be if you ( or anyone) can compare the Arctic Cables Palladium to the Super Conductor on the 1266?  Curious about that comparison.


Unfortunately, I cannot do it as I've got only a stock cable. Basing on what they offer for 1k, I'm not sure about investing twice as much in SC. I'm really positive about switching the stock to the AC Palladium.
But I'm open to other people's impressions about it.


----------



## Roasty

@Frankie D @smutnyjoe 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-15987083

This was with the first gen AC palladium cable.


----------



## vonBaron

My O ring just snaps itself, i always hanging them on frame. Good thing i got.some extra rings. But if againg snaps i will sell them, i hate paying for bad design.


----------



## smutnyjoe

@Roasty thanks for linking to your comparison, it's very useful. I've got the same gen AC cable


----------



## smutnyjoe

vonBaron said:


> My O ring just snaps itself, i always hanging them on frame. Good thing i got.some extra rings. But if againg snaps i will sell them, i hate paying for bad design.


IMO they should include more orings. Not only it would allow a user to find the best fit (it was essential for me to switch the oring to a bigger size) but also it is the most fragile part of the headphone.


----------



## DJJEZ

I'm curious. How many people have widened the frame by bending it?


----------



## vonBaron

Well i must bend one side becouse my head is wide and even with frame max spread out is to tight.


----------



## PortedUnicorn

vonBaron said:


> Well i must bend one side becouse my head is wide and even with frame max spread out is to tight.


Same here. Doesn’t fit without bending.


----------



## Ciggavelli

DJJEZ said:


> I'm curious. How many people have widened the frame by bending it?


I have, due to having a big head


----------



## smutnyjoe

I have a big head too, but I'm a relatively new user and I haven't bent it yet...  how do you do it?


----------



## DJJEZ (Sep 10, 2021)

smutnyjoe said:


> I have a big head too, but I'm a relatively new user and I haven't bent it yet...  how do you do it?


Check out this video. Joe from @Abyss Headphones  shows you how to bend it


----------



## DJJEZ

Ciggavelli said:


> I have, due to having a big head


I'm debating doing it. I feel like a little more width would be better. It's a little tight for me currently


----------



## ra990

DJJEZ said:


> I'm curious. How many people have widened the frame by bending it?


I've done the opposite and made it narrower to fit my smallish head. Now I don't need to wear a hat when I wear my Abyss.


----------



## MWeston

DJJEZ said:


> I'm curious. How many people have widened the frame by bending it?


I had to bend mine too and most of my other headphones are on one or two clicks above their minimum setting so I don't think my dome is that big!  The 1266 seems to be designed for a large child or a small adult woman.  Ha ha!  It's magnificent after a little bending though.


----------



## Frankie D

Roasty said:


> @Frankie D @smutnyjoe
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-15987083
> 
> This was with the first gen AC palladium cable.


Thank you. It looks like the Opera Palladium current gen lists for $4734 vs $2990 for the SC cable at a length of 3m or 10 feet.  Pretty big difference if they are essentially equal in performance.  Tks.


----------



## MatW

vonBaron said:


> My O ring just snaps itself, i always hanging them on frame. Good thing i got.some extra rings. But if againg snaps i will sell them, i hate paying for bad design.


Are those stock or the ones I sent you? My aftermarket rings are still holding up fine.


----------



## vonBaron

@MatW that ones you send me.


----------



## MatW

vonBaron said:


> @MatW that ones you send me.


Hmm. I hope mine hold out longer, but I have some spares.


----------



## simorag (Sep 11, 2021)

*Re: AB-1266 Bass, stating the obvious (?)*

The AB-1266 are universally recognized for their bass perfomance since their inception close to a decade ago now, and with good reason.

However, sometimes I have read people going as far as calling them 'bassy' headphones, or complaining about distortion, bleeding, thus representing the 1266 as overtly colored towards bass emphasis.

To my ears, the AB-1266 TC, when properly amped and - most importantly - properly fitted on the head, produce the closest approximation to bass / sub-bass presentation via a high-end set of loudspeakers with carefully matched subwoofers.

The TC has it all when it comes to below 100Hz and down to the very lowest audibility limit: extension, scale, articulation, clarity, supreme control (again with a good amp), subsonic rumble.

Other very good bass performing headphones I experienced extensively, as Empyrean, TH900/909, LCD-4, Susvara (and yes, I have heard them over several 100W+ amps) simply cannot match, for me, the TC _overall set_ of qualities that make bass so important and enjoyable with a wide range of music.

Below there is a list of albums where the AB-1266 bass excellence makes the difference in terms of making the whole listening experience really special.

With Guillou organ transcription of the _Pictures_, if you try Gnomus at a decent volume, the rumble you feel at the lowest notes goes beyond music reproduction, straight into sheer physical shaking, still keeping the soundstage stable from collapse and airy.




With electrified conteporary jazzy bass, the TC reaches the lowest extension with ease, yet they manage to keep the PRAT at a stratospheric level of engagement, with a combination of sculpted attack and weight of the notes which is unique in my experience.

Furthermore, the TC don't break a sweat when the deepest notes are intertwined with or simultaneous to treble effects or lines, strings nuances, or spatial effects, keeping the utmost readability of the musical 3D space throughout.

 

I attended a live concert of Musica Nuda recently, and the tuning and overall character of the very peculiar double bass used by Ferruccio Spinetti is, amazingly, accurately captured by the TC. Again, the attack, the scale and reach of the bottom end, and the combination of tactility and color are the closest to the real thing I have heard from a pair of headphones.



Another example of recording not belonging to the typical bass-heavy genres, where still the bass is the star of the show is this recent album from Dave Holland.

A much warmer bass compared to the examples above, yet still very well blended in the score and with a good combination of punch and somptuousness, and a relatively rich tonal palette, far from the one-noted bass stereotype.


----------



## paradoxper

simorag said:


> The AB-1266 are universally recognized for their bass perfomance since their inception close to a decade ago now, and with good reason.
> 
> However, sometimes I have read people going as far as calling them 'bassy' headphones, or complaining about distortion, bleeding, thus representing the 1266 as overtly colored towards bass emphasis.
> 
> ...


Name of the game here is proper fitment and unrivaled performance.


----------



## cangle

Thanks @simorag will definitely check out the songs you listed. One song that I was listening to last night is Wandering by Yosi Horikawa.



Around 30 seconds you get an occasional bass note that sweeps downwards. I find it's a good way to test channel balance with bass and adjust the fit if it's not balanced.


----------



## Sajid Amit

simorag said:


> To my ears, the AB-1266 TC, when properly amped and - most importantly - properly fitted on the head, produce the closest approximation to bass / sub-bass presentation via a high-end set of loudspeakers with carefully matched subwoofers.


Well-put.


----------



## DJJEZ

simorag said:


> *Re: AB-1266 Bass, stating the obvious (?)*
> 
> The AB-1266 are universally recognized for their bass perfomance since their inception close to a decade ago now, and with good reason.
> 
> ...


Big fan of gogopenguin


----------



## DJJEZ

cangle said:


> Thanks @simorag will definitely check out the songs you listed. One song that I was listening to last night is Wandering by Yosi Horikawa.
> 
> Around 30 seconds you get an occasional bass note that sweeps downwards. I find it's a good way to test channel balance with bass and adjust the fit if it's not balanced.


I really love bubbles from that same release


----------



## Pashmeister

DJJEZ said:


> I really love bubbles from that same release


This is also my favorite from Yosi. This and Fluid from his Spaces album


----------



## mitchb

I find that the 1266 Phi TC sound better than my LCD4 headphones. The Niimbus amp is beautiful sounding with either headphones.


----------



## Litlgi74

simorag said:


> *Re: AB-1266 Bass, stating the obvious (?)*
> 
> The AB-1266 are universally recognized for their bass perfomance since their inception close to a decade ago now, and with good reason.
> 
> ...


Hey... Not fair... I recommended the Foehn Trio... lol

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/raal-ribbon-headphones-srh1a.890603/post-16437925

You always recommend great music.


----------



## xirxes

Anyone have experience with send-in Service for lets say ear pad repairs(new pads attached to old magnets) or overall re-tune/repairs on the headphones themselves through abyss?


----------



## smutnyjoe

I found another reason to love 1266's. I like to use my headphones while working with a computer, and I wear glasses. With all other headphones the glasses cause the seal to break and, in general, the sound quality to decrease. But with Abyss this is not a problem, and for me personally, it even helps.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Sep 14, 2021)

I got a subwoofer (KEF Kube 8b) to pair with the Raal SR1a, as is advised by many current and former SR1a users. The integration (sonically) is seamless, and the results are *mighty impressive*.





Prompted me to create the table below comparing my SR1a, Susvara and the TC. *Sharing it on the TC thread, because the TC is still untouchable, to my ears.*

Each score is out of 10. I have reserved the right to give a score higher than 10, where applicable, lol.








Also, this is not intended to be a water-tight and exhaustive list of parameters, but those that came to my mind.

And as always, YMMV.


----------



## MatW

Sajid Amit said:


> I got a subwoofer to pair with the Raal SR1a, as is advised by many current and former SR1a users. The integration (sonically) is seamless, and the results are *mighty impressive*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very interesting... I happen to have the same subwoofer ... Just no SR1a... lol


----------



## Slim1970

Sajid Amit said:


> I got a subwoofer (KEF Kube 8b) to pair with the Raal SR1a, as is advised by many current and former SR1a users. The integration (sonically) is seamless, and the results are *mighty impressive*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How does this even work? Does the Subwoofer just play in the background or is it connected to Raal’s somehow?


----------



## Sajid Amit

Slim1970 said:


> How does this even work? Does the Subwoofer just play in the background or is it connected to Raal’s somehow?


The Raal is connected to the amp. The sub is also connected to the amp via subwoofer outs.


----------



## Slim1970

Sajid Amit said:


> The Raal is connected to the amp. The sub is also connected to the amp via subwoofer outs.


Got it, I was wondering how that worked, thanks!


----------



## Womaz

Hi I am seriously considering the 1266TC as my next step up this ladder. The Susvara is the other option.
I have the Burson 3XR , will this drive this HP suitably . Does anyone have any experience with this pairing?


----------



## Frankie D

Sajid Amit said:


> I got a subwoofer (KEF Kube 8b) to pair with the Raal SR1a, as is advised by many current and former SR1a users. The integration (sonically) is seamless, and the results are *mighty impressive*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You use a sub with headphones?  That is new to me.  So, essentially the SR1A is then exactly speakers that hang from your head. Is that correct?  Tks.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Frankie D said:


> You use a sub with headphones?  That is new to me.  So, essentially the SR1A is then exactly speakers that hang from your head. Is that correct?  Tks.


Yup. They are like near field monitors!


----------



## Pashmeister

Sajid Amit said:


> Yup. They are like near field monitors!


I wonder if the same can be done with TC or Susvaras too and how they'd sound. TC likely doesn't need it, but maybe it will be an interesting experiment with the Susvara.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Pashmeister said:


> I wonder if the same can be done with TC or Susvaras too and how they'd sound. TC likely doesn't need it, but maybe it will be an interesting experiment with the Susvara.


Yeah, worth trying for sure. Shall report back!


----------



## DJJEZ (Sep 13, 2021)

Sajid Amit said:


> I got a subwoofer (KEF Kube 8b) to pair with the Raal SR1a, as is advised by many current and former SR1a users. The integration (sonically) is seamless, and the results are *mighty impressive*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is Amazing and definitely agree with all your numbers. Only thing I would add is comfort and ability to alter sound points but apart from that you have nailed it 🤘🤘🤘


----------



## rangerid

The SR1A gets a -50 in the design, I literally cannot look at a picture of someone wearing that abomination without laughing lol. I thought the 1266 looked weird when I first saw it but the SR1A is just.... what in the actual f


----------



## smutnyjoe

rangerid said:


> The SR1A gets a -50 in the design, I literally cannot look at a picture of someone wearing that abomination without laughing lol. I thought the 1266 looked weird when I first saw it but the SR1A is just.... what in the actual f


Lol so true. I was always like: "I don't care how do my headphones look until they sound fantastic and are comfortable enough".

Then I saw SR1A for the first time


----------



## paradoxper

Sajid Amit said:


> I got a subwoofer (KEF Kube 8b) to pair with the Raal SR1a, as is advised by many current and former SR1a users. The integration (sonically) is seamless, and the results are *mighty impressive*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So crazy how you weren't so into the TC initially. LOL Absurdity.


----------



## Frankie D

Sajid Amit said:


> Yup. They are like near field monitors!


And since they are close but not touching your ears, eye glasses are not an issue?

Even with the subwoofer, you still prefer the bass of the 1266, correct?  Thank you.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Frankie D said:


> And since they are close but not touching your ears, eye glasses are not an issue?
> 
> Even with the subwoofer, you still prefer the bass of the 1266, correct?  Thank you.


I kept my TC especially because it is the best headphone to wear with glasses.


----------



## Shahrose

Pashmeister said:


> I wonder if the same can be done with TC or Susvaras too and how they'd sound. TC likely doesn't need it, but maybe it will be an interesting experiment with the Susvara.



Yes, I used a sub with the TC and Susvara, but the effect isn't what I'd call an improvement. With the SR1a, a woofer was practically a game-changer. Their bass is now primarily limited by the quality of the sub.



Sajid Amit said:


> I got a subwoofer (KEF Kube 8b) to pair with the Raal SR1a, as is advised by many current and former SR1a users. The integration (sonically) is seamless, and the results are *mighty impressive*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Appreciate the time that went into this. I agree with pretty much every point. A higher end sub with an EQ would sound better still. I've maintained from the beginning that the TC is the best overall headphone, but with my sub in my room, the SR1a is just more impressive for most genres.


----------



## Pashmeister

Headphones with subwoofers. I could not have imagined. Audiophiles really be audiophiling. No shade though, I think it’s so creative/genius. Would love to try it some time.


----------



## Womaz

Womaz said:


> Hi I am seriously considering the 1266TC as my next step up this ladder. The Susvara is the other option.
> I have the Burson 3XR , will this drive this HP suitably . Does anyone have any experience with this pairing?


Can anyone help me with this please? I have tried to do a search but with no real success


----------



## Sajid Amit

Shahrose said:


> Yes, I used a sub with the TC and Susvara, but the effect isn't what I'd call an improvement. With the SR1a, a woofer was practically a game-changer. Their bass is now primarily limited by the quality of the sub.
> 
> 
> 
> Appreciate the time that went into this. I agree with pretty much every point. A higher end sub with an EQ would sound better still. I've maintained from the beginning that the TC is the best overall headphone, but with my sub in my room, the SR1a is just more impressive for most genres.


A higher end sub might sound better, you say? Please don't encourage any new rabbit holes for me, lol. 

But that said, what were your sub recommendations again, in a smallish form factor? My dealer is getting REL stuff if I remember correctly. And SVS will also be available next month I think. 

Are we talking about parametric EQ btw? SVS stuff has that option, IIRC?


----------



## ra990 (Sep 14, 2021)

I would recommend the sealed SVS SB16 ultra. It pressurizes my entire basement without even being turned up too much. PEQ, bass frequency management, and a bunch more. Accessible via Bluetooth/app.


----------



## DJJEZ

ra990 said:


> I would recommend the sealed SVS SB16 ultra. It pressurizes my entire basement without even being turned up too much. PEQ, bass frequency management, and a bunch more. Accessible via Bluetooth/app.


I have dual SVS SB16's as well and love them.


----------



## ra990

I've tried the sub with headphones, it's nice once you get the balance dialed in perfectly. But, not very feasible if you are using headphones because you can't use speakers due to living with others.


----------



## paradoxper (Sep 14, 2021)

@simorag  if you had to list Valkyria strength over TC, 009, Susvara aside from a general timbre advantage what would they be and what musical selections would you generalize it excels at.

I'm generally bored with the industry as I've heard the best stats and am too satisfied with the TC and plan on adding the RAAL C when available. I'd like to make final rounds and have begrudgingly considered taking a shot in the dark with Valkyria but feel I should trust my gut.

@Joe Skubinski please skip the closed and show us "the big guy" whatever this is proposed to succeed. Thanks.


----------



## Shahrose

Sajid Amit said:


> A higher end sub might sound better, you say? Please don't encourage any new rabbit holes for me, lol.
> 
> But that said, what were your sub recommendations again, in a smallish form factor? My dealer is getting REL stuff if I remember correctly. And SVS will also be available next month I think.
> 
> Are we talking about parametric EQ btw? SVS stuff has that option, IIRC?



You'd like the REL S or T series for music or the KEF KC62, which is among the best for ease of integration. Rythmik sealed offerings are also quite good.  The SVS is slightly below in quality (for purely music) but the reason I chose them was because of their built-in parametric digital EQ, and other controls, which are conveniently controlled by your smartphone. The difference between an equalized and non-equalized woofer is substantial.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Sep 15, 2021)

Shahrose said:


> You'd like the REL S or T series for music or the KEF KC62, which is among the best for ease of integration. Rythmik sealed offerings are also quite good.  The SVS is slightly below in quality (for purely music) but the reason I chose them was because of their built-in parametric digital EQ, and other controls, which are conveniently controlled by your smartphone. The difference between an equalized and non-equalized woofer is substantial.


Yes. I have had some experience with eq-ing subs in my previous life as a two-channel enthusiast.

I have to see how much a sub scales with the SR1a. I have tried the KC62 and it was a hair faster. No other perceptible difference to me, but let's see, I'll give it a second go. The KC62 is certianly prettier. 

The SR1a + subwoofer doesn't leave a lot to be desired in terms of bass or slam or integration thereof, even with the KEF Kube 8b that I am using.

The SR1a can still be "trebley" given its tuning but it is far more balanced than ever before, owing firstly to my EVO 400 and now the sub.


----------



## simorag (Sep 15, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> @simorag  if you had to list Valkyria strength over TC, 009, Susvara aside from a general timbre advantage what would they be and what musical selections would you generalize it excels at.
> 
> I'm generally bored with the industry as I've heard the best stats and am too satisfied with the TC and plan on adding the RAAL C when available. I'd like to make final rounds and have begrudgingly considered taking a shot in the dark with Valkyria but feel I should trust my gut.
> 
> @Joe Skubinski please skip the closed and show us "the big guy" whatever this is proposed to succeed. Thanks.



When I owned the trifecta (SR1a, TC, Susvara) simultaneously, I was under the impression that these three headphones - while having each their own unique qualities - had much in common. More specifically, they all have a relatively neutral tuning, great to amazing transparency and detail retrieval, a big, open sound.

I can see how people may very happily keep them all, because of their peculiar strengths (and I must admit that I miss the SR1a sometimes), but in the end I decided that the TC was all I needed.

This was until I tried the Valkyria for the first time, which was a bit a shocking and unsettling experience. There were several things I did not like coming from the TC, and above all the lack of sub-bass oomph, the more closed in (even dare to say 'muffled') sound (even more apparent in direct comparison with the SR1a), the mid-bass emphasis, the slight reduction of soundstage were somehow letting me down.

Then I kept listening that day and the following, and I started to perceive some yet not clear sense of _pleasure_ from the listening experience through the Valkyria. An attachment that I sensed as related to body and energy, which I could not define clearly at the time.

I was not prepared to spend that much money on the spot, so I delayed the purchase, but the feelings from those listening sessions kept haunting me until I pulled the trigger.

Fast forward now after several months of ownership, I can say that the Valkyria stark differentiation from the TC makes them an ideal complement, almost yin and yang if you want.

Valkyria were developed as the ultimate professional monitoring tool, and Andrea Ricci (the designer of the thing) uses them systematically for his ultra-audiophile classical / jazz recordings monitoring and production, but honestly that is not how I hear them.

Their strength, to me, relies not into accuracy or neutrality, rather on the sheer amount of energy density and visceral macro-dynamics they deliver, combined with a very full and hefty tonal character.

A relatively thick midrange - compared to the TC - and some warmth from a perceived bump on the mid-bass region produce very enjoyable male vocals, double bass, cello, and make piano extremely satisfying.

Life-likeliness from the Valkyria comes more from how they make me feel physically and emotionally compared to when I listen to live music, than from timbre accuracy (e.g. Susvara, SR1a to some extent or SR009) or spatial information rendering (e.g. Abyss TC).

More wax of poetics can be found here (piano) and here (classical), for the overly patient .

Coming (finally!) to your question, the Valkyria is my preferred set for piano, small scale and large scale classical (with some exceptions) and most acoustic music, classic rock and vocals.

I typically prefer the TC for jazz (with several exceptions).

Electronica, pop and heavily synthetic and / or bass-intensive music is where the Abyss still reigns supreme.

Also, I usually prefer the TC for recordings taken in large live venues.


----------



## paradoxper

simorag said:


> When I owned the trifecta (SR1a, TC, Susvara) simultaneously, I was under the impression that these three headphones - while having each their own unique qualities - had much in common. More specifically, they all have a relatively neutral tuning, great to amazing transparency and detail retrieval, a big, open sound.
> 
> I can see how people may very happily keep them all, because of their peculiar strengths (and I must admit that I miss the SR1a sometimes), but in the end I decided that the TC was all I needed.
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking the time. Curiosity got the best of me, Valk ordered.


----------



## ufospls2 (Sep 15, 2021)

If you want to go hardcore with subs, check out Funk Audio and Deep Sea Sound. I owned a Funk 18.0SE (now replaced by the 18.0E,) and it was awesome.


----------



## JLoud

Your neghbors must love you.


----------



## Sajid Amit

paradoxper said:


> Thank you for taking the time. Curiosity got the best of me, Valk ordered.


Def awaiting your impressions


----------



## ra990 (Sep 15, 2021)

Speaking of subs for low end, I'm currently enjoying the Woojer Edge vest, basically haptic feedback you wear. It's far from hifi in its current iteration, however, it does have some range in bass, so you do feel sweeps and drops pretty intensely. The thumps are also timed fairly well, so you feel more of the kick drum. I know there's a more pro-audio focused type of this called the Subpack X1, but it's currently on preorder only. I am looking forward to trying that!

It works great on most pop, hiphop, or electronic type music - even some jazz I've tried where the upright bass groove really moves you. When I play either of Billie Eilish's albums, it almost feels like they have an additional track you have never heard before specifically for this type of haptic feedback. It works amazingly well and it's extremely addictive. The Pino Palladino and Blake Mills collaboration, Notes with Attachments, was made for something like this. 

I think we'll be able to pair our headphones with real hifi bass/lfe we can feel without disturbing others in the next year. Again, I don't consider the Woojer hifi mainly because it's not very linear and is made more for fun, but maybe the Subpack will impress me in that aspect.

I'm listening from my TT2, feeding both the Woojer Vest and the Abyss right now. I look absolutely ridiculous, but this Blade Runner soundtrack has never sounded (felt really) this good before.


----------



## normie610

ra990 said:


> Speaking of subs for low end, I'm currently enjoying the Woojer Edge vest, basically haptic feedback you wear. It's far from hifi in its current iteration, however, it does have some range in bass, so you do feel sweeps and drops pretty intensely. The thumps are also timed fairly well, so you feel more of the kick drum. I know there's a more pro-audio focused type of this called the Subpack X1, but it's currently on preorder only. I am looking forward to trying that!
> 
> It works great on most pop, hiphop, or electronic type music - even some jazz I've tried where the upright bass groove really moves you. When I play either of Billie Eilish's albums, it almost feels like they have an additional track you have never heard before specifically for this type of haptic feedback. It works amazingly well and it's extremely addictive. The Pino Palladino and Blake Mills collaboration, Notes with Attachments, was made for something like this.
> 
> ...


Wow this is something else! Better than a sub I guess?


----------



## ra990

normie610 said:


> Wow this is something else! Better than a sub I guess?


It's like hugging a sub and feeling the vibrations. The tighter you wear the vest (it's pretty comfortable for me) the deeper you feel it. I think some larger people might have trouble feeling it as deep in their core as others, but that's just a guess. It's still missing that transient attack type impact to it, but it's just so much fun already that I can't image how much this type of product can improve. It's exciting to see what's coming - I will be trying it with my VR first person shooter soon!


----------



## deuter

You know what they look like ?
You guys should really get a 2-Channel Speaker Setup.


----------



## ra990 (Sep 15, 2021)

deuter said:


> You know what they look like ?
> You guys should really get a 2-Channel Speaker Setup.


My fun two channel Klipsch Cornwall and SVS system that pressurizes my basement and almost moves my hair when I play Zeppelin is downstairs, but I can't play it while others are trying to sleep or work unfortunately. It barely gets much playtime.


----------



## Pashmeister

deuter said:


> You know what they look like ?
> You guys should really get a 2-Channel Speaker Setup.


Is this a diss on appearance of a device…In an *abyss tc* thread? Lol. Don’t knock it til u try it I guess


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ra990 said:


> Speaking of subs for low end, I'm currently enjoying the Woojer Edge vest, basically haptic feedback you wear. It's far from hifi in its current iteration, however, it does have some range in bass, so you do feel sweeps and drops pretty intensely. The thumps are also timed fairly well, so you feel more of the kick drum. I know there's a more pro-audio focused type of this called the Subpack X1, but it's currently on preorder only. I am looking forward to trying that!
> 
> It works great on most pop, hiphop, or electronic type music - even some jazz I've tried where the upright bass groove really moves you. When I play either of Billie Eilish's albums, it almost feels like they have an additional track you have never heard before specifically for this type of haptic feedback. It works amazingly well and it's extremely addictive. The Pino Palladino and Blake Mills collaboration, Notes with Attachments, was made for something like this.
> 
> ...


I guess you use the TT2's speaker output for the TC and the single ended port for connecting the vest? 

By the way, I am using a similar setup with the original (more transductors) non-edge vest with an ifi iCan Pro. Music never felt so good .


----------



## Hoegaardener70

normie610 said:


> Wow this is something else! Better than a sub I guess?


Way, way better. It is like standing in front of a huge loudspeaker in a club, vibration-wise. Plus, more neighbor friendly.


----------



## rmsanger




----------



## paradoxper

I'll just borrow my girlfriends hitachi, nerds.


----------



## ra990

rmsanger said:


>



I really think that this review pooped all over a very fun device. I don't share many of his complaints. It may come down to our bodies and how the vest fit us.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Sep 16, 2021)

deuter said:


> You know what they look like ?
> You guys should really get a 2-Channel Speaker Setup.


Lol. I am certain that these guys will still stick to headphones.

I have disinvested from two channel entirely.

For me, I mostly do desk listening and listening combined with other activities like reading or writing or emailing (unless I am doing critical listening for reviews). Speakers just don't work well for that use case.

Last but not least, and controversial argument alert, but I personally find headphones more transparent in a certain way, because they disappear on my head (even if they are heavy like the TC). After a while, I forget they are there.

Regardless of how much speakers disappear in a good room, and how incomparable the imaging and staging are for speakers, I prefer headphones than having to sit infront of speakers.

Others' mileage may vary, of course.


----------



## OceanRanger

Sajid Amit said:


> Lol. I am certain that these guys will still stick to headphones.
> 
> I have disinvested from two channel entirely.
> 
> ...


I didn’t realize how crappy my room acoustics were until I started down the headphone rabbit hole…..

now 90% of my listening happens via headphones.


----------



## Womaz

OceanRanger said:


> I didn’t realize how crappy my room acoustics were until I started down the headphone rabbit hole…..
> 
> now 90% of my listening happens via headphones.


This is so true

9 months ago I moved into a new detached property , so my headphone listening virtually stopped . 

I then decided that I should sell one of my headphones as in my eyes they are too expensive to sit in their boxes. So about a month ago I decided to do some listening to see which one to sell. Wow I forgot how good listening to headphones can be , it’s just so intimate and the music is so pure . No room interfering with the sound .

You can probably guess what’s coming next …….😀. yes I am now considering a big purchase of either the Susvara or the TC. This hobby is a strange one, but it’s great fun

I would even say that when I listened to my main speaker set up last night I felt a little disappointed😀


----------



## Axel

Sajid Amit said:


> Lol. I am certain that these guys will still stick to headphones.
> 
> I have disinvested from two channel entirely.
> 
> ...


It’s a bit OT, but a speakers system requires much more effort to get right.
Room acoustic treatments, speakers and equipment placement. Damping and isolation of gear. More cables mix and match, more components mix and match.
Headphones systems are much more plug n play, choose the headphones you like, match an amplifier and you’re done (not referring to source components as they, more or less, share the same considerations for a headphones/speakers system).

Once you get it right, there’s no comparison IMHO.

BTW, I sit in front of my speakers system with my laptop, work/email/read. Not much different from listening to headphones.


----------



## deuter

I think we have drifted too far, speakers and headphones both have their place.
Being the devils advocate here, if you cannot make one or the other really perform guess who’s to blame.
Let’s move on, anyone got a Balanced Act to sell ?


----------



## Sajid Amit (Sep 16, 2021)

Axel said:


> It’s a bit OT, but a speakers system requires much more effort to get right.
> Room acoustic treatments, speakers and equipment placement. Damping and isolation of gear. More cables mix and match, more components mix and match.
> Headphones systems are much more plug n play, choose the headphones you like, match an amplifier and you’re done (not referring to source components as they, more or less, share the same considerations for a headphones/speakers system).
> 
> ...


That’s cool. It might be less about a use case and more about convenience, which can, in turn, translate to a comfort zone. I don’t have the space in my study to read, write, etc., while have speakers blast at me, with appropriate distance from the walls or each other. That translates to HP use, and then habituality.

Until recently, I had a pair of very good SF bookshelves in my study. Other than the fact that my room was the bottleneck, the speakers just didn’t command my attention the way a pair of HPs can. And it’s not just these speakers and not just my room.

Even when I hang out at friends’ who are massively invested in the 2-ch world or at dealers’ with treated rooms, I love the ride and realism speakers can provide, but end up returning to HPs.

Not sure if I would use the word “intimate” or “engaging” but HPs give me more of that emotional response.

But yeah speaker component mixing and matching can be more of a thing, and loads of fun.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Sep 16, 2021)

deuter said:


> I think we have drifted too far, speakers and headphones both have their place.
> Being the devils advocate here, if you cannot make one or the other really perform guess who’s to blame.
> Let’s move on, anyone got a Balanced Act to sell ?


Yup, both have their use cases or rather, and IMO, it does come down to individual preference.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

The best reason for a headphone setup is that it is less than 10kg/20lb, whereas speaker are plainly a huge headache when moving. Lucky guys here who never have to resettle 🤔.


----------



## Frankie D

Sajid Amit said:


> Lol. I am certain that these guys will still stick to headphones.
> 
> I have disinvested from two channel entirely.
> 
> ...


I still prefer my 2-channel set up by a good margin, but from the perspective of trying new gear, HP’s and IEM’s win easy.  Moving around something they weighs ounces vs 250lbs will always be more convenient.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Shahrose said:


> Yes, I used a sub with the TC and Susvara, but the effect isn't what I'd call an improvement. With the SR1a, a woofer was practically a game-changer. Their bass is now primarily limited by the quality of the sub.
> 
> 
> 
> Appreciate the time that went into this. I agree with pretty much every point. A higher end sub with an EQ would sound better still. I've maintained from the beginning that the TC is the best overall headphone, but with my sub in my room, the SR1a is just more impressive for most genres.


Listening to the SR1a all day. Damn, it is incredibly impressive with the sub. Probably far closer to the TC w.r.t listening pleasure, overall.

Live music is just jaw-droppingly real, vis-à-vis the spectrum of possible headphone experiences.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Frankie D said:


> I still prefer my 2-channel set up by a good margin, but from the perspective of trying new gear, HP’s and IEM’s win easy.  Moving around something they weighs ounces vs 250lbs will always be more convenient.


That's cool. Most of my friends also prefer the same.


----------



## Gadget67

deuter said:


> You know what they look like ?
> You guys should really get a 2-Channel Speaker Setup.


Hope your neighbors like you!  I’m in a very isolated setting myself but most others aren’t.


----------



## Shahrose

Sajid Amit said:


> Listening to the SR1a all day. Damn, it is incredibly impressive with the sub. Probably far closer to the TC w.r.t listening pleasure, overall.
> 
> *Live music is just jaw-droppingly real, vis-à-vis the spectrum of possible headphone experiences.*



This is exactly the feeling I immediately had. Repeatedly having to take off the SR1a to check if speakers were on got annoying fast. In a lot of ways, they were better than speakers despite my general preference for the latter. 

Changing gears back to the TC, IMO it's the best complete package of the HPs I've tried. It doesn't need anything to accomplish this (even if it benefits from more midcentric ancillaries and a cable upgrade). 

The SR1a can't be considered overall best because of their obvious lack of bass quantity or capability (judged by EQing on more than adequate amps). But damn they sound incomparably good when a well-integrated sub is added for music with real instruments and voices. For synthetic or electronic music, sometimes I prefer the TC still...

Adding the Susvara into the mix, I still keep those for the most natural and relaxing timbre which immediately just sounds "right". Technically speaking, they're a little bit behind both of the above.


----------



## SuperBurrito

Hoegaardener70 said:


> The best reason for a headphone setup is that it is less than 10kg/20lb, whereas speaker are plainly a huge headache when moving. Lucky guys here who never have to resettle 🤔.


My HP rig is currently 63lbs (DAC and hp amp), and will be 81lbs next weekend when my word clock arrives.  Still, it all weighs less than 1 full sized speaker.


----------



## deuter

Gadget67 said:


> Hope your neighbors like you!  I’m in a very isolated setting myself but most others aren’t.


Keep it practical and respect everyone around you, not just the neighbours.
It’s not hard to do and enjoy music at the same time.
No need to sacrifice your source of music.


----------



## jlbrach

Sajid Amit said:


> Listening to the SR1a all day. Damn, it is incredibly impressive with the sub. Probably far closer to the TC w.r.t listening pleasure, overall.
> 
> Live music is just jaw-droppingly real, vis-à-vis the spectrum of possible headphone experiences.


cant speak to a sub, that is more effort than I can give but in terms of realism and accuracy the sr1a is second to none...truly a remarkable product


----------



## Sajid Amit

Shahrose said:


> This is exactly the feeling I immediately had. Repeatedly having to take off the SR1a to check if speakers were on got annoying fast. In a lot of ways, they were better than speakers despite my general preference for the latter.
> 
> Changing gears back to the TC, IMO it's the best complete package of the HPs I've tried. It doesn't need anything to accomplish this (even if it benefits from more midcentric ancillaries and a cable upgrade).
> 
> ...


No, you are right.


----------



## Womaz

I keep seeing posts that say technically the TC is better than the Susvara. I am assuming you mean a more accurate presentation of the music?
To those who own both which one is the more enjoyable?
I am considering both of these HPs at present and its proving a difficult decision


----------



## genefruit

Womaz said:


> I keep seeing posts that say technically the TC is better than the Susvara. I am assuming you mean a more accurate presentation of the music?
> To those who own both which one is the more enjoyable?
> I am considering both of these HPs at present and its proving a difficult decision


Disclaimer - I don't own both and I've never even listened to the Susvara.

Between the two threads, your own thread on the topic, and the ancillary equipment threads that reference both, the data is present.  If you want to quantify to support your decision, this post has plenty - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...essions-thread.666765/page-1172#post-16558932

The decision is yours to make and it's down to you and your preferences.  Neither is wrong.  Both have a strong resale market.  Analysis paralysis leads you to having neither.  You may end up with both at some point.


----------



## Womaz

genefruit said:


> Disclaimer - I don't own both and I've never even listened to the Susvara.
> 
> Between the two threads, your own thread on the topic, and the ancillary equipment threads that reference both, the data is present.  If you want to quantify to support your decision, this post has plenty - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...essions-thread.666765/page-1172#post-16558932
> 
> The decision is yours to make and it's down to you and your preferences.  Neither is wrong.  Both have a strong resale market.  Analysis paralysis leads you to having neither.  You may end up with both at some point.


Yes thanks for this , its a great comparison on that post. I have looked at it quite a bit.
I am edging towards the TC .......only doubt like I say is the comfort. This is quite a big thing for headphone use obviously 
I will definitely be getting one of them in the next few months , doubt I will ever own the pair though. Thanks for your input.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Womaz said:


> I keep seeing posts that say technically the TC is better than the Susvara. I am assuming you mean a more accurate presentation of the music?
> To those who own both which one is the more enjoyable?
> I am considering both of these HPs at present and its proving a difficult decision



What genres do you listen to most?


----------



## Womaz

number1sixerfan said:


> What genres do you listen to most?


Honestly it is so varied, that its hard to say. I still love Metal, Rock but also listen to a lot of Country, folk and Americana now. I love all of the likes of Skepta, AJ Tracey too. Love acoustic guitar too. Sorry cant be more specific which is why I am looking for an all rounder.
Classical is the only music I never listen to


----------



## number1sixerfan

Womaz said:


> Honestly it is so varied, that its hard to say. I still love Metal, Rock but also listen to a lot of Country, folk and Americana now. I love all of the likes of Skepta, AJ Tracey too. Love acoustic guitar too. Sorry cant be more specific which is why I am looking for an all rounder.
> Classical is the only music I never listen to



Gotcha, was wondering if EDM, Hip Hop and other bass heavy genres were a strong preference, as then it would be an easy decision. I too listen to a very wide variety. In that case it's hard lol. They're both really good and it will simply come down to your preference. Both work well with a lot of genres.

TC has the greater wow factor, more energy and its technical abilities are slightly greater imo than the Sus. In comparison the Susvara is a better all rounder due to the stronger midrange and better tonal balance, while coming really close to the TC from a technical perspective. You just have to take a pick. As mentioned above, I wouldn't agonize over it and both hold their resale value well.


----------



## Benny-x

Womaz said:


> Honestly it is so varied, that its hard to say. I still love Metal, Rock but also listen to a lot of Country, folk and Americana now. I love all of the likes of Skepta, AJ Tracey too. Love acoustic guitar too. Sorry cant be more specific which is why I am looking for an all rounder.
> Classical is the only music I never listen to


Those genres aren't actually that much varried, they're all western music, without any bass heavy EDM or hip hop. 

I'd go Susvara. They're as comfortable as your HEKs, work well with the genres you mentioned, and have better mids than the Abyss. The Abyss may also be good, but it doesn't look like you'd be taking advantage of their basshead aspect. 

You should just pull the trigger. Any of these are super easy to move if they don't blow your socks off.


----------



## Womaz

Benny-x said:


> Those genres aren't actually that much varried, they're all western music, without any bass heavy EDM or hip hop.
> 
> I'd go Susvara. They're as comfortable as your HEKs, work well with the genres you mentioned, and have better mids than the Abyss. The Abyss may also be good, but it doesn't look like you'd be taking advantage of their basshead aspect.
> 
> You should just pull the trigger. Any of these are super easy to move if they don't blow your socks off.


AJ Tracey and Skepta are bloody heavy bass if you ask me   I love Rap too
I am 58 but still love Dance music too . If anything I am leaning more towards the 1266 TC as I think the better bass may be more to my liking. I am also not sure my HEK will get much cash if I sell it so could even keep them to compliment the TC....although this was not my original intention. Thanks for the post.

I do not want to hijack this thread so I will stop here , thanks to all who have contributed. Its much appreciated


----------



## Benny-x

Womaz said:


> AJ Tracey and Skepta are bloody heavy bass if you ask me   I love Rap too
> I am 58 but still love Dance music too . If anything I am leaning more towards the 1266 TC as I think the better bass may be more to my liking. I am also not sure my HEK will get much cash if I sell it so could even keep them to compliment the TC....although this was not my original intention. Thanks for the post.
> 
> I do not want to hijack this thread so I will stop here , thanks to all who have contributed. Its much appreciated


Well, looks like you mind is already made, go for the TCs! 

The HEK in good condition will get you about $1000 USD and change. Not fantastic if you paid $2-3000 before, but they've been there for about 2 years and that's pretty stable for now. 

Good luck.


----------



## rangerid

Honestly I don't think you can go wrong with either. Unless you have both Susvara and TC for an immdiate A/B comparison, the 'weaknesses' talked about for each won't be jumping out at you or anything. If you never hear the Susvara's mids the TCs will prob sound fine and vice versa, if you don't hear TC's slam Susvara's bass should also be able to satisfy you. Both are fantastic and as other said it's easy to resell and try the other if you don't like it.


----------



## ra990

I think that if I could only own one headphone, it would be the Susvara. It's just a better all rounder.


----------



## Sajid Amit

rangerid said:


> Honestly I don't think you can go wrong with either. Unless you have both Susvara and TC for an immdiate A/B comparison, the 'weaknesses' talked about for each won't be jumping out at you or anything. If you never hear the Susvara's mids the TCs will prob sound fine and vice versa, if you don't hear TC's slam Susvara's bass should also be able to satisfy you. Both are fantastic and as other said it's easy to resell and try the other if you don't like it.


Well-put.


----------



## cangle

Got a new cable in for the 1266 today. This is a Norne Drausk cable. It is 17.7 awg copper with 16 wires. Was trying to get a silver or silver and copper hybrid cable from Norne but the wait for anything silver was too long so I ended up with the copper cable instead. Here's a picture of it connected to the 1266:




Ergonomics are much better than stock which I expected although it is a little bit heavier but not heavy to the point where it really pulls on the headphone much. I don't have any impressions of the sound of the cable yet but will revisit it once the cables been used for a while and then will compare the Norne to the stock cable.


----------



## briantrinh86

Dynamo5561 said:


> I fully endorse much of what you say. Just recently got a VC and it is such a nice complement to the 1266. Defintely worth trying out. I find the 5-6KHZ peak fatiguing and not doing so well with bad recordings but overall I really like it. And it took the last available headphone slot so I could finish my over-ear journey


hi, how the sound the og ab1266 vs new phi tc compared? any reason u still keep the og. is there a significant upgrade from the og to the phi tc. thanks


----------



## Dynamo5561

briantrinh86 said:


> hi, how the sound the og ab1266 vs new phi tc compared? any reason u still keep the og. is there a significant upgrade from the og to the phi tc. thanks


I did not do a deep-dive comparison. But generally the tonality of the OG is a bit off compared to the TC, especially in the mids. But I enjoy it, it could be even described as "colored". Before buying I read that the detail retrieval is better on the TC, yes that's right but it is very subtle. No big jump here. The TC is the more neutral and mature product. The reason for keeping the OG is that I like the 1266 sound a lot and both are different enough so that I enjoy rotationally listening to them.


----------



## briantrinh86

Dynamo5561 said:


> I did not do a deep-dive comparison. But generally the tonality of the OG is a bit off compared to the TC, especially in the mids. But I enjoy it, it could be even described as "colored". Before buying I read that the detail retrieval is better on the TC, yes that's right but it is very subtle. No big jump here. The TC is the more neutral and mature product. The reason for keeping the OG is that I like the 1266 sound a lot and both are different enough so that I enjoy rotationally listening to them.


thanks for your opinion about them bro. i have the OG and i still enjoy it but the tc keep bugging me in my head. the thing is i could'nt any dealer in north california to hear the demo of the tc that's why i need a comparison. anyway i'm looking up to get the tc in the future.


----------



## Womaz

I think I am about to take the jump and go for the TC......my biggest worry is the fit and comfort. My HEKs I just pick them up and plonk them on my head. It looks like the TCs need a bit of time taken to get a good fit. Would I have to do this every time? Or once I have the optimum fit is it easy for the headphones to stay that way?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Womaz said:


> I think I am about to take the jump and go for the TC......my biggest worry is the fit and comfort. My HEKs I just pick them up and plonk them on my head. It looks like the TCs need a bit of time taken to get a good fit. Would I have to do this every time? Or once I have the optimum fit is it easy for the headphones to stay that way?


It took me a week or two to figure out the fit. After that it has been very easy to quickly adjust the fit when I put them on. I wouldn’t worry about it. It’s only when you first get them where there’s the fit issue. The TCs are great; highly recommended


----------



## nicholas1213

Dynamo5561 said:


> I did not do a deep-dive comparison. But generally the tonality of the OG is a bit off compared to the TC, especially in the mids. But I enjoy it, it could be even described as "colored".



Hi, when you mention about the mid of the OG being more 'colored', could it mean it is more pronounced than the TC? I have not heard about either the OG and the TC in person, and occasionally I come across remark that the mid is 'recessed'. If it is 'recessed' in a neutral way without being 'muddy', then I guess it is good for me, as I listen heavily to vocal songs. Then again back to your description especially the mid, I wonder comparing the OG to TC especially at the mid region, which one will stand out more, thanks!


----------



## MatW (Sep 18, 2021)

Womaz said:


> I think I am about to take the jump and go for the TC......my biggest worry is the fit and comfort. My HEKs I just pick them up and plonk them on my head. It looks like the TCs need a bit of time taken to get a good fit. Would I have to do this every time? Or once I have the optimum fit is it easy for the headphones to stay that way?


There's a stand for it that allows you to keep the frame toed in (or out) as you like it, so it's easy to put it back on in the same position. Almost the same as a 'regular' headphone, at that point.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.666765/page-858#post-15985121

Edit: I said in the post above that I don't leave it toed in, which was true then, but I do do that now. It's very convenient.


----------



## Dynamo5561 (Sep 18, 2021)

nicholas1213 said:


> Hi, when you mention about the mid of the OG being more 'colored', could it mean it is more pronounced than the TC? I have not heard about either the OG and the TC in person, and occasionally I come across remark that the mid is 'recessed'. If it is 'recessed' in a neutral way without being 'muddy', then I guess it is good for me, as I listen heavily to vocal songs. Then again back to your description especially the mid, I wonder comparing the OG to TC especially at the mid region, which one will stand out more, thanks!



I will try to do some more detailled comparison tomorrow maybe and will let you know. As said the main difference is that the OG sounds "off" but more "vivid" or "colored" and less neutral than the TC. Everything else is quite similar or nothing you would immediately notice.

I tried to find some graphs to see whats going on but I was unsuccsessful finding two measurements from the same authority. I found one from innerfidelity and the other from ASR and scaled them more or less equally and put them over each other.






You can see the upper mid dip on the OG and in a high contrast the emphasis on >10KHZ frequencies, maybe that's the difference that let me preceive the mids more pronounced on the OG and the sound in general more "colorful". And the uppper mid dip itself is then the reason for sounding "off". But actually I would have expected to have changes in the mids directly, but I will do some side by side comparisons soon so maybe I can give you some examples and verify my former impressions.

Edit:
Take it really with a grain of salt, they are two different measurement units and I don't know what normlization is applied to them. The upper mid dip seems very big which I know from Audeze headphones and I can hear that quite immediately. I find half the music is missing on an LCD-4 for example. I didn't notice that on the OG.


----------



## deuter

The OG sound very much like live music, vivid.


----------



## nicholas1213

Dynamo5561 said:


> I will try to do some more detailled comparison tomorrow maybe and will let you know. As said the main difference is that the OG sounds "off" but more "vivid" or "colored" and less neutral than the TC. Everything else is quite similar or nothing you would immediately notice.
> 
> I tried to find some graphs to see whats going on but I was unsuccsessful finding two measurements from the same authority. I found one from innerfidelity and the other from ASR and scaled them more or less equally and put them over each other.
> 
> ...



Wow thank you so much for the effort! The last example actually nail it when you use Audeze as an example. I owned LCD-X and to me I really need to EQ it heavily on mid else the mid sounded muffled or muddy. I am still wondering if I should get the OG first for about 50% cost of the TC and see how it goes before 'commit' fully into TC haha.


----------



## genefruit

Womaz said:


> I think I am about to take the jump and go for the TC......my biggest worry is the fit and comfort. My HEKs I just pick them up and plonk them on my head. It looks like the TCs need a bit of time taken to get a good fit. Would I have to do this every time? Or once I have the optimum fit is it easy for the headphones to stay that way?


It took me 30 minutes the first day and I haven’t had to adjust them since. When I found the right position for me, I used a pencil and traced the curve at the top so that I could reset them  if I ever needed to.


----------



## Womaz

OK I have just ordered the TC and they arrive on Tuesday. Thanks to all of you who have reached out and helped me on here it is very much appreciated. 

I will be using the Burson Conductor 3X Reference DAC/AMP with them so I hope that I will like this combination. I know that the amp and DAC itch will hit me but for then next 6 to 12 months that is me broke now   
Currently on p 858 of this thread and loving some of your set ups, some of them I could only dream of. Thanks again for all the help and suggestions


----------



## MatW

Womaz said:


> OK I have just ordered the TC and they arrive on Tuesday. Thanks to all of you who have reached out and helped me on here it is very much appreciated.
> 
> I will be using the Burson Conductor 3X Reference DAC/AMP with them so I hope that I will like this combination. I know that the amp and DAC itch will hit me but for then next 6 to 12 months that is me broke now
> Currently on p 858 of this thread and loving some of your set ups, some of them I could only dream of. Thanks again for all the help and suggestions


Great news. That's pretty fast. You are in for a treat!


----------



## Womaz

MatW said:


> Great news. That's pretty fast. You are in for a treat!


Yeah for me this is fast as I normally take a lot more time than this , but I got a knee injury about 10 days ago and it looks like my outdoor life will be curtailed for a while so this is like a little pick me up to myself


----------



## MatW

Womaz said:


> Yeah for me this is fast as I normally take a lot more time than this , but I got a knee injury about 10 days ago and it looks like my outdoor life will be curtailed for a while so this is like a little pick me up to myself


Not only the decision making, but the delivery time. Some folks have had to wait for months.. Get well soon, and enjoy the music in the meantime!


----------



## normie610

MatW said:


> but the delivery time. Some folks have had to wait for months


True. Mine’s got pushed back to mid/end October 😓


----------



## DJJEZ

normie610 said:


> True. Mine’s got pushed back to mid/end October 😓


When were you supposed to get them?


----------



## Womaz

normie610 said:


> True. Mine’s got pushed back to mid/end October 😓


I am in the UK, the supermarket shelves are empty but I can get these in a couple of days


----------



## Gadget67

Womaz said:


> I am in the UK, the supermarket shelves are empty but I can get these in a couple of days


…Food for the soul…


----------



## Womaz

Although I am delighted with the quick despatch I am now wondering if I am getting the older model with the older headband? 
I am not sure when the changes were made as my head is in a fuzz after reading over 900 pages of this thread over last few days   
I might drop them an email


----------



## MatW

Womaz said:


> Although I am delighted with the quick despatch I am now wondering if I am getting the older model with the older headband?
> I am not sure when the changes were made as my head is in a fuzz after reading over 900 pages of this thread over last few days
> I might drop them an email


That was some time ago, I'm sure it'll be the new headband.


----------



## normie610

DJJEZ said:


> When were you supposed to get them?


Supposed to get it this mid September


----------



## deuter

MatW said:


> That was some time ago, I'm sure it'll be the new headband.


What’s the issue with the older headband?
I have it don’t find a problem


----------



## MatW

deuter said:


> What’s the issue with the older headband?
> I have it don’t find a problem


The new headband is more comfortable and the o rings are replaceable. But if you're happy, you're happy.


----------



## deuter

Anyone try the Wells Audio Headtrip with Abyss 1266, what has been your experience and compared to amps ?


----------



## ufospls2

deuter said:


> Anyone try the Wells Audio Headtrip with Abyss 1266, what has been your experience and compared to amps ?



Great match. On the warmer and "romantic" side of things, less so than the Milo though.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Sep 18, 2021)

One of my o-rings ripped.  Can someone please explain to me how to replace it?  The headband is sewn closed and the o-ring is closed.  One of them needs to open to enable me to slip the o-ring through the headband slot..  


Also- is there a link someone can recommend for an assortment of sizes between 211-217?


----------



## Roasty

rsbrsvp said:


> One of my o-rings ripped.  Can someone please explain to me how to replace it?  The headband is sewn closed and the o-ring is closed.  One of them needs to open to enable me to slip the o-ring through the headband slot..
> 
> 
> Also- is there a link someone can recommend for an assortment of sizes between 211-217?



You can't.. Unless u cut the headband and sew it back. U need to order one of the new replacement headbands (that come with screw closures for easy changes, in case the rubber ring snaps again).


----------



## rsbrsvp

Roasty said:


> You can't.. Unless u cut the headband and sew it back. U need to order one of the new replacement headbands (that come with screw closures for easy changes, in case the rubber ring snaps again).


Got it....


----------



## rsbrsvp

I noticed when ordering the new headband that there are "latest version earpads".  How new are they?  They seem to be a bit deeper.

Are they worth $400?


----------



## ufospls2

rsbrsvp said:


> I noticed when ordering the new headband that there are "latest version earpads".  How new are they?  They seem to be a bit deeper.
> 
> Are they worth $400?



If you have the TC you have the newest pads, and also most if not all of the CC shipped with them also. There are only two pad versions for the 1266, the ones which are shallower with no perforation, and the deeper ones with perforations.


----------



## rsbrsvp

ufospls2 said:


> If you have the TC you have the newest pads, and also most if not all of the CC shipped with them also. There are only two pad versions for the 1266, the ones which are shallower with no perforation, and the deeper ones with perforations.


thanks....  SO I have them already....


----------



## Dynamo5561

nicholas1213 said:


> Wow thank you so much for the effort! The last example actually nail it when you use Audeze as an example. I owned LCD-X and to me I really need to EQ it heavily on mid else the mid sounded muffled or muddy. I am still wondering if I should get the OG first for about 50% cost of the TC and see how it goes before 'commit' fully into TC haha.



So did some side by side comparison today. Same cables, volume matched signal at around 80DB, the TC on the RME ADI DAC and the OG on the A90.






The differences are far less than what I would recover from memory. But there are some.

I think the graph shows the differences between the OG and the TC quite good:

1. Upper mid dip on the OG
The graph shows quite a big dip in the upper mids. I would say it is much much less hearable, but occasionally on some tracks it leads to some veilness. You can only hear it when you really do a side by side comparison and focus on it. You would not be able to hear it by just listening on the OG. And it is really very subtle. E.g. "World Can Wait - Sam Feldt, Robert Falcon" And additionally it makes the OG sound a bit off generally, but really not much. Surprisingly Vocals sounded very much the same. I thought there was some more difference.

2. Treble elevation
The graph also showed some treble elevation on the OG. I would say this is more noticable than the upper mid dip. I could hear this on more tracks E.g. "Dream a little Dream - Helen Schneider" and "World Can Wait - Sam Feldt, Robert Falcon" sounded brighter, I would not say sharp but gets quite to the edge. It also leads to some different representation of the music, e.g . "Hula Hoop - Omi" first ten seconds sound on the TC "faster" as it does not reproduce the treble reverb of the tones as much as the OG does.

Generally speaking, if you don't focus on finding differences in details, the TC sounds a bit fuller, more neutral and more correct. But we are talking about 5-10% difference here. I personally would definitely prefer the TC over the OG. It's just the more mature product. But I think you could also EQ the OG to sound like the TC maybe. Hope this helps a bit. 

Generally you can not do anything wrong with buying one of these beasts


----------



## deuter

At the current price for TC I’d much rather get the OG and that amazing bass.


----------



## Slim1970

deuter said:


> At the current price for TC I’d much rather get the OG and that amazing bass.


Bass is better on the TC’s. Not only is just as big, it’s much better textured and more defined than the OG.


----------



## nicholas1213

deuter said:


> At the current price for TC I’d much rather get the OG and that amazing bass.



I am having exactly the same thought now  A used OG for about 50% of TC cost. Or a phi non-cc version for about 60% of the TC cost. Not sure if the phi's improvement over the OG worth the price.


----------



## MatW

nicholas1213 said:


> I am having exactly the same thought now  A used OG for about 50% of TC cost. Or a phi non-cc version for about 60% of the TC cost. Not sure if the phi's improvement over the OG worth the price.


You'd just be postponing the inevitable..


----------



## rsbrsvp

What is the OG???


----------



## MatW

rsbrsvp said:


> What is the OG???


OG stands for original. You'll see it in many conversations on headfi, not just the Abyss.


----------



## deuter

Sorry to derail, but I just really enjoy the OG.


----------



## Bonddam

I bought an OG and had to sell my TC do to reasons but snuck some money to get the TC again good thing I’ll be able to hide this from current situation.


----------



## nicholas1213

MatW said:


> You'd just be postponing the inevitable..


Yeah guess I can only catch up to TC when BC (Beyond Conscious?) or 'Chi' (alphabet after Phi) is released next 😅 - looking at my wallet. 

I must say when come to such god-tier headfi setup, owning the headphone alone is just part of it, source & amp can easily be as costly, or if not even more expensive than the headphone itself.


----------



## Bonddam

nicholas1213 said:


> Yeah guess I can only catch up to TC when BC (Beyond Conscious?) or 'Chi' (alphabet after Phi) is released next 😅 - looking at my wallet.
> 
> I must say when come to such god-tier headfi setup, owning the headphone alone is just part of it, source & amp can easily be as costly, or if not even more expensive than the headphone itself.


Only if you need to spend more. No one should think it will not sound awesome on less expensive gear. My 15 amps and 12 Dacs I know a thing or two. No I don’t have all of that now just one big amp and DAC. Wells Audio Cipher lvl 1 and Woo WA5 LE. My small setup is ifi Zen signature combo. The WA33 Elite is best amp for 1266 for myself. I don’t like 33 for other headphones. The WA5 was the best compromise for everything I need. The Cipher DAC just proved to be best DAC and I’ve owned.


----------



## paradoxper

nicholas1213 said:


> I am having exactly the same thought now  A used OG for about 50% of TC cost. Or a phi non-cc version for about 60% of the TC cost. Not sure if the phi's improvement over the OG worth the price.


If that is what you can afford, go for it, enjoy it. If you are just being cheap, it will cost you more in the long run as you will not resist upgrading.


----------



## tholt

paradoxper said:


> If that is what you can afford, go for it, enjoy it. If you are just being cheap, it will cost you more in the long run as you will not resist upgrading.


+1. I've been through all of them: OG, Phi CC, TC. Each to me was noticeably (subjectively significantly) better than the last. More realism, refinement and improved fullness as you go up the ladder. The TC bass is definitely better than the Phi IMO. I was surprised at how much better controlled it is, but still same depth and slam.


----------



## tholt

rsbrsvp said:


> One of my o-rings ripped. Can someone please explain to me how to replace it? The headband is sewn closed and the o-ring is closed. One of them needs to open to enable me to slip the o-ring through the headband slot..


PM me. I have a DIY solution that worked well for me. Even better than the O rings IMO


----------



## deuter

Do we have a thread to discuss amping the Abyss?


----------



## jlbrach

the abyss is a lot less of a problem to amp than the susvara....the formula s/powerman is tough to beat for a SS solution and I am told the wa33 is terrific for a tube solution...otherwise they re several amps that can do the job


----------



## Dynamo5561

tholt said:


> PM me. I have a DIY solution that worked well for me. Even better than the O rings IMO


Can you maybe share it publicly?

Another solution is to just buy 3mm rubber (caoutchouc) and a corresponding heatshrink. You need to cut it at around 8-8,5cm and then you put the rubber through the headband and close it with the heatshrink. Then heat it and its finished.


----------



## MatW

rsbrsvp said:


> One of my o-rings ripped.  Can someone please explain to me how to replace it?  The headband is sewn closed and the o-ring is closed.  One of them needs to open to enable me to slip the o-ring through the headband slot..
> 
> 
> Also- is there a link someone can recommend for an assortment of sizes between 211-217?


Some others have suggested solutions to repair the old headband, but I would still consider buying the new one, because not only are the rings easy to replace, it is a lot softer than the old one. It made a big difference for me comfort wise, with the right size O rings.


----------



## deuter

jlbrach said:


> the abyss is a lot less of a problem to amp than the susvara....the formula s/powerman is tough to beat for a SS solution and I am told the wa33 is terrific for a tube solution...otherwise they re several amps that can do the job


Cool, but what about something cheaper?


----------



## tholt

Dynamo5561 said:


> Can you maybe share it publicly?


Basically just using these instead of O rings. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074JVF89H/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thread one end through the headband and back through the slider, attach to the frame, tighten up the slack and trim off the ends.


----------



## paradoxper

tholt said:


> Basically just using these instead of O rings. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074JVF89H/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Thread one end through the headband and back through the slider, attach to the frame, tighten up the slack and trim off the ends.


May I buy you a new headband? For **** sake.


----------



## tholt

paradoxper said:


> May I buy you a new headband? For **** sake.


That works. Can I send you my address?


----------



## paradoxper

tholt said:


> That works. Can I send you my address?


Indeed.


----------



## Gadget67

paradoxper said:


> May I buy you a new headband? For **** sake.


Here’s a link; they take Apple Pay.

https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...s/products/replacement-headband-abyss-ab-1266


----------



## paradoxper

Gadget67 said:


> Here’s a link; they take Apple Pay.
> 
> https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...s/products/replacement-headband-abyss-ab-1266


Already done. Thank you.


----------



## Pashmeister (Sep 20, 2021)

ra990 said:


> I've tried the sub with headphones, it's nice once you get the balance dialed in perfectly. But, not very feasible if you are using headphones because you can't use speakers due to living with others.


Speaking recently about headphones + sub, Burson just came out with a new Soloist capable of that set up:

https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/soloist-3x-grand-tourer/

They doubled the power from the Soloist 3XP also. My wallet is confused now with the new options available.


----------



## Slim1970

Pashmeister said:


> Speaking recently about headphones + sub, Burson just came out with a new Soloist capable of that set up:
> 
> https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/soloist-3x-grand-tourer/


This amp looks amazing!


----------



## Bonddam

paradoxper said:


> If that is what you can afford, go for it, enjoy it. If you are just being cheap, it will cost you more in the long run as you will not resist upgrading.


I learned the hard way. Do not buy crazy cheap keep cheap at a $1000 and get a taste. But if you can please buy the expensive stuff because you will hear the difference and of course you’re still May be a person who will wonder if they could have bought that other expensive amp because it maybe better but don’t. If 1266 is your main amp easy amp would be WA33 and Dragon lvl 3. Those are safe bets that WA33 is popular choice. The Wells Dragon is becoming realized by many that it’s awesome for the $5,500(lvl3). 
for me I had to go with WA5 LE after experiencing WA33 and that was my favorite until I stuck other headphones on it. WA5 LE lets me roll many different brands of tubes where the 33 is limited on 2A3 and very limited on drivers. I could easily just stick to solid state but no tube rolling fun that would just stock.


----------



## JLoud

I had the WA5LE and loved it. But there were times I missed the speed and punch of SS. The WA33 hit the middle ground for me. Tube goodness with speed and punch. Sold my WA5LE and GSX mk2. But I could see someone preferring the WA5LE, those 300b tubes are special.


----------



## Gadget67

Abyss may have some serious competition…

https://www.ecoustics.com/products/...IyH_9SCVLmEXItk3SkMHasTlIMii-3u5VM1unOZBPOQWI


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Indeed.


What a nice guy. Btw, I was thinking of getting a new amp. Can you spare $15k?


----------



## ken6217

Gadget67 said:


> Abyss may have some serious competition…
> 
> https://www.ecoustics.com/products/...IyH_9SCVLmEXItk3SkMHasTlIMii-3u5VM1unOZBPOQWI


Great review. He said a lot of nothing.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Gadget67 said:


> Abyss may have some serious competition…
> 
> https://www.ecoustics.com/products/...IyH_9SCVLmEXItk3SkMHasTlIMii-3u5VM1unOZBPOQWI


I don't think so.  Less bass than the LCD-4 and "borderline bright."  I'm still interested in the 5, but I don't think it's going to be able to compete with the TCs


----------



## eee1111

ken6217 said:


> Great review. He said a lot of nothing.


He actually did.

It sounds like the Lcd 5 is lighter in bass and brighter overall than the 4. I’d have to hear it to make up how I feel.


----------



## Gadget67

ken6217 said:


> Great review. He said a lot of nothing.


Maybe Judes review will help…


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> What a nice guy. Btw, I was thinking of getting a new amp. Can you spare $15k?


Hey, I brought you guys the CFA3!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Bring us the CFA3 tube hybrid!


----------



## paradoxper

Fegefeuer said:


> Bring us the CFA3 tube hybrid!


That, too, is coming. LOL


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Hey, I brought you guys the CFA3!


Only the idea, not the cash. Actually I have to give credit to John as well. You get  
the most credit though for helping make my wallet lighter between the two amps.


----------



## Pashmeister

Gadget67 said:


> Maybe Judes review will help…



seems it still needs significant EQing


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Only the idea, not the cash. Actually I have to give credit to John as well. You get
> the most credit though for helping make my wallet lighter between the two amps.


The Primavara SAGA, I feel too guilty about. 

But now, we need you to work Joe over. We need the Big Guy!


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> The Primavara SAGA, I feel too guilty about.
> 
> But now, we need you to work Joe over. We need the Big Guy!


That is one elusive amp.

Where is John these days?


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> That is one elusive amp.
> 
> Where is John these days?


he's banished to the badlands. Welcome to that MOT life. Sigh.


----------



## Gadget67

Pashmeister said:


> seems it still needs significant EQing


Seems to be the case, though I’m happy to see Audeze release a new headphone.  I’m still outrageously happy with my Abyss but of course I’d be curious to listen to the Audeze at some point.  For now I’m just addicted to the ability to make minor adjustments on the fly with the Abyss as I’m listening.


----------



## DJJEZ (Sep 20, 2021)

Closed back incoming? 😀


----------



## Abyss Headphones (Sep 20, 2021)

Wish it was done, something from Woo Audio.
We're close. Working on the back side, then fine tuning, and we're ready to rock and roll.


----------



## rmsanger (Sep 20, 2021)

New flagship SS amp released by Burson:

https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/soloist-3x-grand-tourer/

Head-fi thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bur...er-head-amp-pre-amp-w-sub-out-10w-xlr.959796/

I own the Soloist 3XP and it's been a solid pairing with 1266 Phi TC.  Is it end game, no but solid performance for the price.   In the GT they are doubling the power, improving cross channel isolation / performance,  and improving their op amps/cooling/volume control over XP.

They also are introducing the sub-out as a use case for headphone listeners which will be interesting for Susvara/TC owners.  I've heard of people doing this with Raal sr1a but not on our side.  Anyway an interesting choices to compare with the other recent releases (Volot, Ferrum Oor+Hypsos, Upcoming Holo Audio flagship hp amp).


----------



## Schildbrecher (Sep 20, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> Closed back incoming? 😀



1266 is too heavy for my neck.

Diana Phi is for me the best headphone in the world, best comfort and I can wear it the whole day without *pain* - day to day.
So I hope for a closed Diana


----------



## Womaz

Ok mine have just arrived, first of all after unpacking is wow the build quality of these is awesome. I am used to Hifiman HEK so its a bit of a change   
Quite tricky to get the fit right , or to even know if you have got the fit right so it will take a bit of experimenting, but after only one minute that bass is SUPERB


----------



## ThanatosVI

Hey guys, 

Anything new from Abyss on the horizon?
Any rumors?


----------



## genefruit

Womaz said:


> Ok mine have just arrived, first of all after unpacking is wow the build quality of these is awesome. I am used to Hifiman HEK so its a bit of a change
> Quite tricky to get the fit right , or to even know if you have got the fit right so it will take a bit of experimenting, but after only one minute that bass is SUPERB


If you haven't already, watch this -


----------



## stemiki

ThanatosVI said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Anything new from Abyss on the horizon?
> Any rumors?


with Abyss Tc you are already at the Top, nothing else is needed!


----------



## paradoxper

ThanatosVI said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Anything new from Abyss on the horizon?
> Any rumors?


Not this year. And that likely isn't a 1266 succession.


----------



## paradoxper (Sep 21, 2021)

genefruit said:


> If you haven't already, watch this -




Back down the rabbit hole. With all the FOTM FOMO.

Yup. No matter fit position, headband taughtness, pad rotation, gap response, forward/backward cue. Too much fun, such varied acoustic properties.

The most enjoyable experience from top to bottom of any headphone I've ever heard.

Missing zero.


----------



## Bonddam

Got a 2nd hand original 1266 I can't tell why some of you say it's not good. I thought it would sound like bad bologna. It sounds good to me and like it as much as TC. TC is built better I like the who ever made the pads for original better new guy sucks at sowing. The ring on the bottom of the pad has better placement options. New pads may sound great but doesn't matter when people complain about them falling apart. Pads on my unit just needed some CA glue as the plastic ring glue seal broke. For headphone maybe 10 years pads look fine.


----------



## rmsanger

paradoxper said:


> Not this year. And that likely isn't a 1266 succession.


Come on abyss with the closed back!

 time to put this Dan clark stealth nonsense to bed.


----------



## deuter

Bonddam said:


> Got a 2nd hand original 1266 I can't tell why some of you say it's not good. I thought it would sound like bad bologna. It sounds good to me and like it as much as TC. TC is built better I like the who ever made the pads for original better new guy sucks at sowing. The ring on the bottom of the pad has better placement options. New pads may sound great but doesn't matter when people complain about them falling apart. Pads on my unit just needed some CA glue as the plastic ring glue seal broke. For headphone maybe 10 years pads look fine.


The OG, is definitely the better headphone in terms of that pounding Bass.
Yes, the detail an treble energy might be more in the TC but I'am not after that sound presentation.

Also the OG costs a fraction of the TC, Its definitely the top value headphone, probably Head-Fi's most guarded secret!


----------



## briantrinh86

deuter said:


> The OG, is definitely the better headphone in terms of that pounding Bass.
> Yes, the detail an treble energy might be more in the TC but I'am not after that sound presentation.
> 
> Also the OG costs a fraction of the TC, Its definitely the top value headphone, probably Head-Fi's most guarded secret!


i have the OG one .may i know your setup position for the bass .thank you


----------



## Bonddam

Only Abyss I can’t get the full experience is Diana only because you don’t really have the ability to break the seal. I wish they developed some different form that maybe places tubes inside the pad creating optimal broken seal without breaking the seal around your ear.


----------



## Bonddam

briantrinh86 said:


> i have the OG one .may i know your setup position for the bass .thank you


Mike of Woo said he found it fatiguing which I agree but it’s for getting too loud to quickly


----------



## deuter

briantrinh86 said:


> i have the OG one .may i know your setup position for the bass .thank you


Sure, the seam is at 2 o'clock position. Make sure the drivers are parallel to each other sometimes even bend them a little inwards.
You want just enough gap, not too much between the cheeks and the earpads.


----------



## briantrinh86

Bonddam said:


> Mike of Woo said he found it fatiguing which I agree but it’s for getting too loud to quickly


yeah, little bit fatigue but i get used to it.


----------



## briantrinh86 (Sep 21, 2021)

deuter said:


> Sure, the seam is at 2 o'clock position. Make sure the drivers are parallel to each other sometimes even bend them a little inwards.
> You want just enough gap, not too much between the cheeks and the earpads.


oh for now im in the same setup too. before i found 10 and 4 is the most bassy position but the headphone felt insecured and the 3d soundstage and midrange seems went off.


----------



## Bonddam

Here’s my 10 year unit


the pads after 10 years. If you put the old next to the new pads you’ll see the old ones are a mirror image new ones come all different lol


----------



## karlheinz147

ThanatosVI said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Anything new from Abyss on the horizon?
> Any rumors?


They have vaguely mentioned on their videos that they're working on a closed back and an iem model


----------



## Bonddam

I'm listening to the Elite and Z1R and they don't loose. Z1R is just for my driving around in, Yes I have a whole headphone rig in my work van. Lucky have a huge power inverter in the back just put in a surge and off I went no more missing my hobby while working. It's not a crazy system but it works. I have to set up the laptop tray to hold my ifi Zen Signature amp and DAC give me easy access. People don't mess with the cable guy all you need is Jim Carey showing up.


----------



## JLoud

I can picture you modest setup.


----------



## Bonddam

JLoud said:


> I can picture you modest setup.


Lol ducks you. The Cabel guy can’t be defeated by a fancy FEDs surveillance I have plot armor?


----------



## Quickanddirty

Another new and ecstatic TC user here... 😁 Can someone comment on the correct pin assignment? I need a decent cable for these beauties.


----------



## Womaz (Sep 22, 2021)

Ok a quick post from me. I had about 6 hours listening to my new 1266TC last night and they sound amazing straight out of the box to me. A totally different sound to my HEKs to say the least. The music like slaps you in the face, in a nice way  
I am not really a one for comparisons and I do not intend to listen to my HEKs for at least a week as this is the best way for me to hear any differences, however they definitely have more space and air, like the instruments have more room. I am not that good at describing what I hear , but these feel more open for sure. The bass is really good but I have to admit at first it can be a bit overpowering, although I am still playing about with the fit.

My only gripe so far is the comfort. I struggled with this and found the pressure from the headband to be a bit uncomfortable, however this was a 6 hour listening session which I never do. Usually I am 1 to 2 hours at a time (although I do feel that these will increase that )
I have watched both of the vidoes about the fit and I will continue to experiment but I did find that every 30 minutes or so I would have to relieve the pressure from the headband. With my HEKs and HD800S I can literally wear them for hours.

This is a big purchase for me and I so want to get them to be more comfortable as I love the sound so far, but I do have 30 days to return them if needed.

Finally the build quality of these is excellent , I mean these things could last for an eternity and I actually like the look of these.

One final thing, yes in the future these may need a better DAC/Amp, but funds are limited right now, but you know this hobby I am already looking So for my source I use my IPhone to stream Tidal, how would I connect my Iphone as a lot of these amps do not have a USB connection, and my apologies if this is a basic question.

Oh they also made me listen to some music that I never ever listen to. Last night was my first ever play of a Diana Krall album and it sounded sublime. Not sure its my thing but the album sounded stunning.

An interesting few days ahead 

Just to add I am a Roon subscriber so one of my options would be to get a Roon ready product to act as my streamer/amp.


----------



## normie610

Womaz said:


> Ok a quick post from me. I had about 6 hours listening to my new 1266TC last night and they sound amazing straight out of the box to me. A totally different sound to my HEKs to say the least. The music like slaps you in the face, in a nice way
> I am not really a one for comparisons and I do not intend to listen to my HEKs for at least a week as this is the best way for me to hear any differences, however they definitely have more space and air, like the instruments have more room. I am not that good at describing what I hear , but these feel more open for sure. The bass is really good but I have to admit at first it can be a bit overpowering, although I am still playing about with the fit.
> 
> My only gripe so far is the comfort. I struggled with this and found the pressure from the headband to be a bit uncomfortable, however this was a 6 hour listening session which I never do. Usually I am 1 to 2 hours at a time (although I do feel that these will increase that )
> ...


Ah I wish I already have the TC. It’s painful to wait and read these impressions.


----------



## Bonddam

Quickanddirty said:


> Another new and ecstatic TC user here... 😁 Can someone comment on the correct pin assignment? I need a decent cable for these beauties.


Do you already have them? You can spin the bottom part of the headphone side connector and dismantle the connection to see the pin location then just take apart the amp termination for the same. If you need pics I’ll send them to you today I actually was given a few different cables with my original 1266.


----------



## Quickanddirty

Bonddam said:


> Do you already have them? You can spin the bottom part of the headphone side connector and dismantle the connection to see the pin location then just take apart the amp termination for the same. If you need pics I’ll send them to you today I actually was given a few different cables with my original 1266.


Yeah I got them since yesterday. Holy moly, these are monsters driven by a First Watt F6 dual mono. Absolutely amazing, even with that ultra low cost stock cable.

Thanks for offering the pictures. I just got in touch with abyss. Guess it will be easy to say for them.


----------



## ra990

Womaz said:


> Ok a quick post from me. I had about 6 hours listening to my new 1266TC last night and they sound amazing straight out of the box to me. A totally different sound to my HEKs to say the least. The music like slaps you in the face, in a nice way
> I am not really a one for comparisons and I do not intend to listen to my HEKs for at least a week as this is the best way for me to hear any differences, however they definitely have more space and air, like the instruments have more room. I am not that good at describing what I hear , but these feel more open for sure. The bass is really good but I have to admit at first it can be a bit overpowering, although I am still playing about with the fit.
> 
> My only gripe so far is the comfort. I struggled with this and found the pressure from the headband to be a bit uncomfortable, however this was a 6 hour listening session which I never do. Usually I am 1 to 2 hours at a time (although I do feel that these will increase that )
> ...


Try wearing a hat under your abyss. I find a soft comfortable beanie type hat or even a baseball cap will make the headphones disappear on my head and eliminate any comfort issues.


----------



## Womaz

ra990 said:


> Try wearing a hat under your abyss. I find a soft comfortable beanie type hat or even a baseball cap will make the headphones disappear on my head and eliminate any comfort issues.


Man whilst that may be a solution it is one I am definitely not going to pursue     
Thanks for the input though


----------



## Pashmeister

Womaz said:


> One final thing, yes in the future these may need a better DAC/Amp, but funds are limited right now, but you know this hobby I am already looking So for my source I use my IPhone to stream Tidal, how would I connect my Iphone as a lot of these amps do not have a USB connection, and my apologies if this is a basic question.


Since you have the Burson Conductor, perhaps use its preamplifier mode and connect your separate amp to it? Amps won’t have a USB input unless it also has a DAC built in


----------



## Womaz

Pashmeister said:


> Since you have the Burson Conductor, perhaps use its preamplifier mode and connect your separate amp to it? Amps won’t have a USB input unless it also has a DAC built in


This could be a possibility I guess, but if I upgrade the amp it is likely that the Burson will be sold. Anyway I dont want to derail this thread again   Thanks for your input


----------



## MWeston

Womaz said:


> My only gripe so far is the comfort. I struggled with this and found the pressure from the headband to be a bit uncomfortable, however this was a 6 hour listening session which I never do. Usually I am 1 to 2 hours at a time (although I do feel that these will increase that )
> I have watched both of the vidoes about the fit and I will continue to experiment but I did find that every 30 minutes or so I would have to relieve the pressure from the headband. With my HEKs and HD800S I can literally wear them for hours.


Hey there.  I found them a bit tight too.  I had to bend out the frame a small amount and then they became perfect!  There is a video from Abyss on how to bend it but all you have to do is hold it on either side of the curved part and bend it out slightly.  A small bend makes a big difference down at the ear so it doesn't take a crazy amount of flexing.  You can get it "all day" comfortable by doing this and I almost couldn't stand any of my other over ear headphones for a week or so after doing this.


----------



## dudeX

Womaz said:


> One final thing, yes in the future these may need a better DAC/Amp, but funds are limited right now, but you know this hobby I am already looking So for my source I use my IPhone to stream Tidal, how would I connect my Iphone as a lot of these amps do not have a USB connection, and my apologies if this is a basic question.


What's your budget? I would get a Topping or SMSL DAC/AMP stack if you want something affordable and capable. As for amps, I would look at GSX Mini (1750-1950 USD), or a Burson Audio Soloist. I would recommend Shiit stuff too but I have yet to read reviews where people use Schiit stuff.
Abyss likes the Topping D90/A90 stack (giving it a solid B in one of their videos).


----------



## Womaz

dudeX said:


> What's your budget? I would get a Topping or SMSL DAC/AMP stack if you want something affordable and capable. As for amps, I would look at GSX Mini (1750-1950 USD), or a Burson Audio Soloist. I would recommend Shiit stuff too but I have yet to read reviews where people use Schiit stuff.
> Abyss likes the Topping D90/A90 stack (giving it a solid B in one of their videos).


Not sure if this would be much of an improvement on what I currently have , as I have the Burson Conductor 3XR.
My budget is zero right now after this purchase.   
I was thinking more long term where I could maybe spend a bit more on my DAC/amp........maybe say 4 to 5k. But its some time away. For now I will enjoy what I have. Thanks for the post.


----------



## Womaz (Sep 22, 2021)

Sleigh Bells may be an acquired taste but when I said the 1266CC was like a good slap in the face then listen to this album.........awesome, so much energy and sounds great


----------



## Bonddam

Got a Superconductor and new pads and the old Abyss 1266 sounds a lot better no more fatigue and more width. I got the adapters to put the abyss cable on my Meze Elite and it made the Elite sound better.


----------



## deuter

Anyone tried the Liquid Platinum with Abyss AB-1266?


----------



## ra990

deuter said:


> Anyone tried the Liquid Platinum with Abyss AB-1266?


I have, in fact it was recommended by Joe at Abyss to try if you were looking for a decent affordable amp for them. It was nice!


----------



## cangle

Bonddam said:


> Got a Superconductor and new pads and the old Abyss 1266 sounds a lot better no more fatigue and more width. I got the adapters to put the abyss cable on my Meze Elite and it made the Elite sound better.


Have you tried it just with the pads or just with the cable? I'm curious what improvements / changes are brought about by each change


----------



## deuter

ra990 said:


> I have, in fact it was recommended by Joe at Abyss to try if you were looking for a decent affordable amp for them. It was nice!


What's the comparison to more expensive amps, eg: You're using TT2 now  and what was the improvement.


----------



## ra990 (Sep 22, 2021)

deuter said:


> What's the comparison to more expensive amps, eg: You're using TT2 now  and what was the improvement.


Diminishing returns for sure. I was running the LP with a Qutest at the time. So you can expect the same benefits associated with moving from Qutest to TT2.

There is some alteration you can do to the sound with the LP by using different tubes. If you are budget limited for an amp, I continue to strongly recommend it, especially for power hungry planars.


----------



## deuter

ra990 said:


> Diminishing returns for sure. I was running the LP with a Qutest at the time. So you can expect the same benefits associated with moving from Qutest to TT2.
> 
> There is some alteration you can do to the sound with the LP by using different tubes. If you are budget limited for an amp, I continue to strongly recommend it, especially for power hungry planars.


I thought that was the case, but  watched a review about it that said something entirely different, and that got me wondering.



I was looking to get the Formula S and Powerman but hesitant that it might be a sidegrade rather than an upgrade especially looking at the price


----------



## tholt

deuter said:


> Anyone tried the Liquid Platinum with Abyss AB-1266?


I have, briefly and a while ago. Bought on a whim. Ultimately I couldn't get over how cheap the LP looked/felt and returned it. I was pleasantly surprised however at how bad it _didn't_ sound. It had a bit of a warmish hue that worked well for the mids in particular, from what I remember.


----------



## ra990 (Sep 22, 2021)

tholt said:


> I have, briefly and a while ago. Bought on a whim. Ultimately I couldn't get over how cheap the LP looked/felt and returned it. I was pleasantly surprised however at how bad it _didn't_ sound. It had a bit of a warmish hue that worked well for the mids in particular, from what I remember.


Agreed, it looks and feels cheap, but it sounds a lot better than it looks and provides plenty of power. Also it's discounted pretty frequently on the monoprice website and you can snag one for $400 at times. That's a great price for a very capable amp. I would get one again if they brought it down to that price again, just to have as a backup amp in case I ever needed it.


----------



## Slim1970

deuter said:


> Anyone tried the Liquid Platinum with Abyss AB-1266?


I have as well. My LP was modded and I was using adapters so I could use the 12UA7 family of tubes. The two together made all difference in the world. The sound of the LP with the mods and tube upgrades was actually pretty darn good. The TC’s had slam, punch and very good resolution. The treble was airy and the soundstage was expansive and very holographic. I didn’t like the sound of the LP in stock form. It sounded very congested and lack depth. The mods fixed this for me.

The LP did a fantastic job with the TC’s and Susvara’s. The only issue I had with it was the gain. There was no way to turn it down, which made useable volume a problem. You’d be lucky to get to 11 o’clock on the volume dial. I was able to control it with my Hugo 2. If your DAC doesn’t have a volume dial with a variable feature then this could be a problem.


----------



## deuter

Slim1970 said:


> I have as well. My LP was modded and I was using adapters so I could use the 12UA7 family of tubes. The two together made all difference in the world. The sound of the LP with the mods and tube upgrades was actually pretty darn good. The TC’s had slam, punch and very good resolution. The treble was airy and the soundstage was expansive and very holographic. I didn’t like the sound of the LP in stock form. It sounded very congested and lack depth. The mods fixed this for me.
> 
> The LP did a fantastic job with the TC’s and Susvara’s. The only issue I had with it was the gain. There was no way to turn it down, which made useable volume a problem. You’d be lucky to get to 11 o’clock on the volume dial. I was able to control it with my Hugo 2. If your DAC doesn’t have a volume dial with a variable feature then this could be a problem.


And its comparision to your current headphone amp?


----------



## ra990

Slim1970 said:


> I have as well. My LP was modded and I was using adapters so I could use the 12UA7 family of tubes. The two together made all difference in the world. The sound of the LP with the mods and tube upgrades was actually pretty darn good. The TC’s had slam, punch and very good resolution. The treble was airy and the soundstage was expansive and very holographic. I didn’t like the sound of the LP in stock form. It sounded very congested and lack depth. The mods fixed this for me.
> 
> The LP did a fantastic job with the TC’s and Susvara’s. The only issue I had with it was the gain. There was no way to turn it down, which made useable volume a problem. You’d be lucky to get to 11 o’clock on the volume dial. I was able to control it with my Hugo 2. If your DAC doesn’t have a volume dial with a variable feature then this could be a problem.


You may have had one of the older stock. I believe they updated the volume pot to give it more range near the beginning. I've had a couple of them and the second one I got was definitely updated. I was able to hit 12'oclock pretty easily with the Abyss and Susvara. I think I had the Qutest running at 1 or 2v output, definitely not 3v.


----------



## Slim1970

deuter said:


> And its comparision to your current headphone amp?


Compared to the FA-10, Formula S without Powerman, and V281 I had at the same time, the LP didn't have the refinement of those amps. The FA-10 and V281 had a similar warm tonality as the LP, but was faster, more dynamic sounding with more impactful bass. The Formula S even without the Powerman I thought was better sounding than all three. It was cleaner throughout the midrange, has faster transients which made the notes snappy, clear and defined. last the Formula S just has amazing P.R.A.T. compared to the other 3 amps.


----------



## Slim1970

ra990 said:


> You may have had one of the older stock. I believe they updated the volume pot to give it more range near the beginning. I've had a couple of them and the second one I got was definitely updated. I was able to hit 12'oclock pretty easily with the Abyss and Susvara. I think I had the Qutest running at 1 or 2v output, definitely not 3v.


I’m sure I did. Once I realize I could just lower the volume on my Hugo 2 to get more play on the volume know it was all good. The LP wasn’t or isn’t a bad sounding amp. I do recommend the mods to improve clarity throughout the frequency spectrum. After the mods it sounded like $1.5k amp and could compete with some higher tier amps, but it did lacks some refinement in the mids and upper frequencies to my ears.


----------



## briantrinh86

Slim1970 said:


> Compared to the FA-10, Formula S without Powerman, and V281 I had at the same time, the LP didn't have the refinement of those amps. The FA-10 and V281 had a similar warm tonality as the LP, but was faster, more dynamic sounding with more impactful bass. The Formula S even without the Powerman I thought was better sounding than all three. It was cleaner throughout the midrange, has faster transients which made the notes snappy, clear and defined. last the Formula S just has amazing P.R.A.T. compared to the other 3 amps.


Do u think the power man is worth to spend 2400$ extra or formula s alone is good enough for ab1266


----------



## MacedonianHero

briantrinh86 said:


> Do u think the power man is worth to spend 2400$ extra or formula s alone is good enough for ab1266


I think the Powerman takes this amp to a whole new level and totally worth it. It went from ok...to really good with its addition.


----------



## briantrinh86

Did anyone have chance to do a/b test between the formula s+ powerman with the benchmark hpa4 alone?


----------



## MacedonianHero

I have. Without the Powerman, I'd take the HPA4 without question. With the Powerman...it's a toss up. It was that transformative.


----------



## briantrinh86

MacedonianHero said:


> I have. Without the Powerman, I'd take the HPA4 without question. With the Powerman...it's a toss up. It was that transformative





MacedonianHero said:


> I have. Without the Powerman, I'd take the HPA4 without question. With the Powerman...it's a toss up. It was that transformative.


Thanks bro


----------



## MacedonianHero

briantrinh86 said:


> Thanks bro


No worries....both are outstanding with the Phi TC!!!!


----------



## rangerid

briantrinh86 said:


> Did anyone have chance to do a/b test between the formula s+ powerman with the benchmark hpa4 alone?



This is a good video from abyss where they talk about different amps


----------



## jlbrach

MacedonianHero said:


> I think the Powerman takes this amp to a whole new level and totally worth it. It went from ok...to really good with its addition.


agreed 100%


----------



## DJJEZ

briantrinh86 said:


> Did anyone have chance to do a/b test between the formula s+ powerman with the benchmark hpa4 alone?


I have owned both and much prefer the formula S  and powerman personally 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


----------



## briantrinh86

DJJEZ said:


> I have owned both and much prefer the formula S  and powerman personally 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


Final conclusion, formula s+ powerman is the top solid state choice for the tc. Thanks guys


----------



## MacedonianHero

DJJEZ said:


> I have owned both and much prefer the formula S  and powerman personally 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


I don’t say that.  It is definitely one of them though.


----------



## deuter

MacedonianHero said:


> I don’t say that.  It is definitely one of them though.


What else out there that would compete, and doesn't have to be Solid State, can do with some Woo too  (See what I did there)


----------



## paradoxper

MacedonianHero said:


> I don’t say that.  It is definitely one of them though.


Go get George to build you a CFA3. LOL


----------



## Bonddam

I have the first van quicky installed with good amount of electrical tape. I don't do much have a very comfy job. Only safety issue is climbing utility poles. Safety concern power line falls and puts me into a coffin early last some jerk hitting my line while I'm hooked and strapped to the steel worst at that point tractor trailer takes me for ride. But in my down time I listen to headphones. I'll build something later and maybe make something to house bigger amp to run my 1266 O.G. here you go try not to laugh to hard. It's all I got.


----------



## Slim1970

Bonddam said:


> I have the first van quicky installed with good amount of electrical tape. I don't do much have a very comfy job. Only safety issue is climbing utility poles. Safety concern power line falls and puts me into a coffin early last some jerk hitting my line while I'm hooked and strapped to the steel worst at that point tractor trailer takes me for ride. But in my down time I listen to headphones. I'll build something later and maybe make something to house bigger amp to run my 1266 O.G. here you go try not to laugh to hard. It's all I got.


Whatever works to get great sound on the go!


----------



## Quickanddirty

Why is everybody so crazy about the "superconductor"? I got no problem with spending lots of money for a good cable, but do we know any specs? Exact materials of the conductor, quality, construction and Gauge / AWG? Everything about this cable seems to be a big secret which is ridiculous at this price point isn't it???


----------



## stemiki

The Superconductor, like the other Jps cables, is made of Aluminum. But the type of material used does not matter, what matters is the result it gets you!


----------



## SuperBurrito

briantrinh86 said:


> Final conclusion, formula s+ powerman is the top solid state choice for the tc. Thanks guys


Don't forget the Luxman P-750u.  One person here had both and preferred it to the Formula S.  Not to mention, you can get the Lux for nearly a couple grand less than the Powerman w/ external power supply.


----------



## Quickanddirty

stemiki said:


> The Superconductor, like the other Jps cables, is made of Aluminum. But the type of material used does not matter, what matters is the result it gets you!


Word, but most probably you'll get the same good results for a fraction of the price of the superconductor. 

I'm just interested to hear how some other (no nonsense and specs related) aftermarket cables do perform in direct comparison.


----------



## ken6217

Quickanddirty said:


> Why is everybody so crazy about the "superconductor"? I got no problem with spending lots of money for a good cable, but do we know any specs? Exact materials of the conductor, quality, construction and Gauge / AWG? Everything about this cable seems to be a big secret which is ridiculous at this price point isn't it???


And would it make any difference to you or help you make a decision if they told you the guage, how it’s twisted, the jacket, etc, etc? You’d still have no idea how it sounded without listening with it.


----------



## SuperBurrito

Quickanddirty said:


> Word, but most probably you'll get the same good results for a fraction of the price of the superconductor.
> 
> I'm just interested to hear how some other (no nonsense and specs related) aftermarket cables do perform in direct comparison.


From what I understand, the SC is tuned specifically for the 1266, to bring out the mids and smooth out the v-shaped response.

Any other aftermarket cable is designed to be universal, so is not going to tune the 1266 in the same way as the SC.


----------



## stemiki

Quickanddirty said:


> Word, but most probably you'll get the same good results for a fraction of the price of the superconductor.
> 
> I'm just interested to hear how some other (no nonsense and specs related) aftermarket cables do perform in direct comparison.


I've tried cables in other materials, but you don't get the same result, trust me!  The stock cable is also very good, but the SC is better. 

Another cable that I think is very good is the Prion4, but then it depends on which one goes best with the rest of the setup.


----------



## julien-hifi

Just to help, i wanted to see if i could depart from my SC, so i tried a draug norne audio silver cable (1200$), and a nordost heimdall 2.
i wanted to believe i could get almost the same result but no, the SC was just way better. Trying to know if not just me, i did blind test to my loved one, and each time with SC she said the sound was bigger and fuller.
That’s also my conclusion.


----------



## Quickanddirty (Sep 23, 2021)

OK guess I need to hear the SC at least.

For the moment I'll get a Neotech upocc hybrid made from 4 x AWG 20 copper stranded + 4 x 24 AWG silver solidcore. Had really excellent results on that basis with lots of other headphones including the HE 6.


----------



## deuter

SuperBurrito said:


> From what I understand, the SC is tuned specifically for the 1266, to bring out the mids and smooth out the v-shaped response.
> 
> Any other aftermarket cable is designed to be universal, so is not going to tune the 1266 in the same way as the SC.


What are we trying to fix ? If there is an issue with the sound signature Abyss should fix it at the headphone not rely on a cable to smooth things out.


----------



## Gavin C4

deuter said:


> What are we trying to fix ? If there is an issue with the sound signature Abyss should fix it at the headphone not rely on a cable to smooth things out.


I actually do agree. The cable itself should be a neutral picec of equipment. So that it will reflect the actual sound of the headphone. We should no be using the cable to solve and problem with the headphone.

You rather save that money to upgrade your amp or dac for better results. Before getting into the cable.


----------



## FLTWS

deuter said:


> What are we trying to fix ? If there is an issue with the sound signature Abyss should fix it at the headphone not rely on a cable to smooth things out.





Gavin C4 said:


> I actually do agree. The cable itself should be a neutral picec of equipment. So that it will reflect the actual sound of the headphone. We should no be using the cable to solve and problem with the headphone.
> 
> You rather save that money to upgrade your amp or dac for better results. Before getting into the cable.


In a perfect world, yes.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Sep 24, 2021)

Gavin C4 said:


> I actually do agree. The cable itself should be a neutral picec of equipment. So that it will reflect the actual sound of the headphone. We should no be using the cable to solve and problem with the headphone.
> 
> You rather save that money to upgrade your amp or dac for better results. Before getting into the cable.



I don't think it really ever makes sense to say there should be a particular way anyone goes about improving a headphones' weakness. Whether you change a cable, amp or dac it's all the same concept--you're trying to eradicate that weakness. And especially at this level where most people already have TOTL dacs and amps.

That said, I'm not really big on cables because the ROI is so low, much like a lot of expensive tubes. I can take that same $2k and put it towards one of the new flagships for far higher ROI and greater enjoyment _to me. _Now if the superconductor cable actually fixes the TC's mids issues, I'd be all over it, but that's not the sense I get from this thread.


----------



## FLTWS

I believe with any product like audio gear you reach a point where you can try and get that last 3% to 5 % but end up losing 3% to 5% elsewhere.

Just read the impressions / comparisons past of the 1266 OG, Phi, and TC.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Because at some point we simply can't defy physic.

We can't turn our head to look left and right at the same time.

Car with higher ground clearance will always have worse downforce due to higher lift pressure (when everything is equal).

Speaker with more mellow character will never produce faster decay (when everything is equal).


----------



## Bonddam

Super Conductor is 16 gauge same wire as stock cable. I use the stock cable on my Meze Elite and it's so much better then regular stock Meze cable. It sounds different. The stock 1266 cable has 8 conductors total if the SuperConductor might be 16 conductors total. Aluminum makes sense as it adds more resistance to the cable then mixed in with copper changing how it resists. During copper shortage electricians started buying aluminum cables to wire homes problem is the wire gets warm. Efficiency goes out the window. So this must smooth out the sound and copper brings in the heft. 

Unless there's magical fairies that Joe enslaved. Who knows the secrets, but it does work.


----------



## deuter

FLTWS said:


> I believe with any product like audio gear you reach a point where you can try and get that last 3% to 5 % but end up losing 3% to 5% elsewhere.
> 
> Just read the impressions / comparisons past of the 1266 OG, Phi, and TC.


I do agree with the stated, when the phi drivers came out users complained about loosing the viseral bass but gained detail in the treble.


----------



## rangerid

Playing around with HQPlayer on the TCs, really enjoying closed-form-fast/LNS15, gave vocals a more lifelike/less harsh, smoothed out the treble, soundstage more holographic, an overall tonally richer and denser sound signature, easier to listen to and fits my preference perfectly.


----------



## normie610

rangerid said:


> Playing around with HQPlayer on the TCs, really enjoying closed-form-fast/LNS15, gave vocals a more lifelike/less harsh, smoothed out the treble, soundstage more holographic, an overall tonally richer and denser sound signature, easier to listen to and fits my preference perfectly.


Out of curiosity, how do you connect tambaqui to 13R? the tambaqui doesn’t have SE out right?


----------



## rangerid

normie610 said:


> Out of curiosity, how do you connect tambaqui to 13R? the tambaqui doesn’t have SE out right?


Tambaqui comes with a pair of XLR-RCA adapter so you can still connect to SE amps without any issues. Currently my preamp has both balanced/unbalanced input/output, so I am connecting balanced from Tambaqui to Ref 5 balanced, then unbalanced from that to 13R. I wish the Bakoon had balanced inputs so my system is truly balanced, but it prob doesn't fit given size.


----------



## Womaz

Help help help   

I am shocked at how much better these sound to my HEKs , I did not expect them to be this much better......but and its a big but, that is when I have then perfectly positioned.
So I can more or less get them to that position now as soon as I put them on, but can I hell get them to stay there.

So for how I like my music to sound I have to have these quite slack on my head, this gives me the right amount of bass and space I like to hear. The downside is I do like to move when listening to music, maybe not dancing  but yeah doing some body movements. They then just move out of position. I gave tried closing them in at the front of the cup and at the back of the cup too , but I dont like either of these positions.

So to get them to stay in the same place I have to have them tighter fitting than I would like and this is definitely at the detriment of the sound quality. 
I have watched all of the vidoes about getting the fit of these correct but I am at a loss. 
So right now I am desperately searching for a way to get these to stay put on my head when i have them slack, otherwise they may have to be returned and I really dont want to do this. I do want a HP that allows me to move a bit and I dont mean jumping around honest ....its the smallest of movements at times.

Any ideas anyone?


----------



## paradoxper

Womaz said:


> Help help help
> 
> I am shocked at how much better these sound to my HEKs , I did not expect them to be this much better......but and its a big but, that is when I have then perfectly positioned.
> So I can more or less get them to that position now as soon as I put them on, but can I hell get them to stay there.
> ...


You might clarify where your pad position is to start as it sounds you're going for a very loose fit.

I'd say generally speaking the nominal ideal fitment is just barely coupled, you can do some bopping not head-banging but free with most movement. Ear pads can be from 1-3ish-o'clock. It is a little surprisingly you also don't want a toe-out or perhaps you did not play the the toe-out with a varied ear pad position. I find a slight angle improves sounds in space and also provides a little more bass oomph under control. But I don't have issues losing fit. That'd drive me a little crazy.


----------



## Womaz

paradoxper said:


> You might clarify where your pad position is to start as it sounds you're going for a very loose fit.
> 
> I'd say generally speaking the nominal ideal fitment is just barely coupled, you can do some bopping not head-banging but free with most movement. Ear pads can be from 1-3ish-o'clock. It is a little surprisingly you also don't want a toe-out or perhaps you did not play the the toe-out with a varied ear pad position. I find a slight angle improves sounds in space and also provides a little more bass oomph under control. But I don't have issues losing fit. That'd drive me a little crazy.


They are at about 1 o clock, that is the best position for me . I tried from say 12 0 clock to 3 but 1 is def best for me
I will try the toe out again.....I assume you mean slightly more open at the front of the ear pad?


----------



## qboogie

Womaz said:


> Help help help
> 
> I am shocked at how much better these sound to my HEKs , I did not expect them to be this much better......but and its a big but, that is when I have then perfectly positioned.
> So I can more or less get them to that position now as soon as I put them on, but can I hell get them to stay there.
> ...


Maybe you can carve out a lightweight foam block to form a guide between your head and the cups that secures it a little more?


----------



## stemiki

Womaz said:


> Help help help
> 
> I am shocked at how much better these sound to my HEKs , I did not expect them to be this much better......but and its a big but, that is when I have then perfectly positioned.
> So I can more or less get them to that position now as soon as I put them on, but can I hell get them to stay there.
> ...


Once you have found the most suitable position you will see that the bow does not move so easily. 

Stays in the position you put it in. Then maybe depending on some songs or musical genres you will prefer to move it more open or closed. 

Over time you will become familiar with this.


----------



## paradoxper (Sep 25, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> You might clarify where your pad position is to start as it sounds you're going for a very loose fit.
> 
> I'd say generally speaking the nominal ideal fitment is just barely coupled, you can do some bopping not head-banging but free with most movement. Ear pads can be from 1-3ish-o'clock. It is a little surprisingly you also don't want a toe-out or perhaps you did not play the the toe-out with a varied ear pad position. I find a slight angle improves sounds in space and also provides a little more bass oomph under control. But I don't have issues losing fit. That'd drive me a little crazy.


Yes, toe-in shows no resistance you may just squeeze your head raw, but I find toe-out a natural resistance occurs that optimizes the perfect toe-out -- at least for me. If you took a picture of the headband width and a particular toe-out it might also help better clarify. I'd show mine tonight if no other's chime in.


----------



## Womaz

qboogie said:


> Maybe you can carve out a lightweight foam block to form a guide between your head and the cups that secures it a little more?


Possibly but I hate little things like this. Dont really think I should have to do this ......I will add though its early days and a lot of people seemed to have these issues at first


----------



## ra990

qboogie said:


> Maybe you can carve out a lightweight foam block to form a guide between your head and the cups that secures it a little more?


Just try wearing a hat!


----------



## Womaz

paradoxper said:


> Yes, toe-in shows no resistance you may just squeeze your head raw, but I find toe-out a natural resistance occurs that optimizes the perfect toe-out -- at least for me. If you took a picture of the headband width and a particular toe-out it might laso help better clarify. I'd show mine tonight if no other's chime in.


Thank you this has already made a difference , well to the fit anyway ....its also now staying in place when I move about .....EUREKA  
Too early to call if I like the sound this way but its not moving about now

My mate told me today that I do have slightly sticky out ears....I never knew this


----------



## paradoxper

Womaz said:


> Thank you this has already made a difference , well to the fit anyway ....its also now staying in place when I move about .....EUREKA
> Too early to call if I like the sound this way but its not moving about now
> 
> My mate told me today that I do have slightly sticky out ears....I never knew this


Now it's just about feeling it out and optimizing what's best between fit and sound. 

It will become second nature.


----------



## Womaz

paradoxper said:


> Now it's just about feeling it out and optimizing what's best between fit and sound.
> 
> It will become second nature.



Yes I guess so, I cant believe I could not find this position myself. I think sometimes we can fiddle about too much and not give things enough time.
This fit feels good now and has also decreased the weighty feeling on top of my head. Thanks again

I am not one for chopping and changing my gear, I have had the HEKs for just under 6 years and loved them, I really did not expect such a big improvement so I am very keen to keep these


----------



## paradoxper

Womaz said:


> Yes I guess so, I cant believe I could not find this position myself. I think sometimes we can fiddle about too much and not give things enough time.
> This fit feels good now and has also decreased the weighty feeling on top of my head. Thanks again
> 
> I am not one for chopping and changing my gear, I have had the HEKs for just under 6 years and loved them, I really did not expect such a big improvement so I am very keen to keep these


It's a fickle introduction. I remember struggling the same.

Get ready to enjoy the TC for the next 20 years because there ain't much coming to dog it down.


----------



## MatW

Womaz said:


> Yes I guess so, I cant believe I could not find this position myself. I think sometimes we can fiddle about too much and not give things enough time.
> This fit feels good now and has also decreased the weighty feeling on top of my head. Thanks again
> 
> I am not one for chopping and changing my gear, I have had the HEKs for just under 6 years and loved them, I really did not expect such a big improvement so I am very keen to keep these


Of course you're keeping them..😊


----------



## Womaz

paradoxper said:


> It's a fickle introduction. I remember struggling the same.
> 
> Get ready to enjoy the TC for the next 20 years because there ain't much coming to dog it down.


It is certainly built to last that long


----------



## rsbrsvp

I want to ask advice from those with experience on the superconductor cable.

What does it do sonically to the TC vs a good silver occ litz cable?  Is there any filling out of the midrange using this cable?

I have a silver litz occ from ted allen (headphone lounge)- which was around $200.  Big improvement over stock.  For $2000- what improvements or differences should I expect from this superconductor cable?


----------



## deuter

rsbrsvp said:


> I want to ask advice from those with experience on the superconductor cable.
> 
> What does it do sonically to the TC vs a good silver occ litz cable?  Is there any filling out of the midrange using this cable?
> 
> I have a silver litz occ from ted allen (headphone lounge)- which was around $200.  Big improvement over stock.  For $2000- what improvements or differences should I expect from this superconductor cable?


I would
Invest the $K in a better dac or amp


----------



## rsbrsvp

deuter said:


> I would
> Invest the $K in a better dac or amp


Thanks.  I am very satisfied with my dac and amp.  But- I could purchase another set of headphones....


----------



## JLoud

I have the SC and a Norne silver cable. The silver cable balanced out the sound but the SC seemed to expand the soundstage. The SC also brought up the midrange while keeping the sparkle of the treble. I had to make a pad adjustment to retain the amount of bass the stock cable provided. Overall I definitely prefer the SC. Wether it is worth the cost is a personal choice.


----------



## rsbrsvp

JLoud said:


> I have the SC and a Norne silver cable. The silver cable balanced out the sound but the SC seemed to expand the soundstage. The SC also brought up the midrange while keeping the sparkle of the treble. I had to make a pad adjustment to retain the amount of bass the stock cable provided. Overall I definitely prefer the SC. Wether it is worth the cost is a personal choice.


Very interesting post.  The review I read by audiobacon mentioned how the superconductor added warmth and texture but at the cost of treble sparkle.  I will need to settle this understanding before going in that direction.


----------



## DJJEZ (Sep 26, 2021)

rsbrsvp said:


> I want to ask advice from those with experience on the superconductor cable.
> 
> What does it do sonically to the TC vs a good silver occ litz cable?  Is there any filling out of the midrange using this cable?
> 
> I have a silver litz occ from ted allen (headphone lounge)- which was around $200.  Big improvement over stock.  For $2000- what improvements or differences should I expect from this superconductor cable?


I can't compare to to a silver cable but against the stock cable The SC cable smoothes out everything while keeping treble sparkle. Deeper bass and midrange is better. Its a thicker sound with a little more warmth but Way less fatiguing over stock. Was worth the purchase for me but  it's definetley different for everyone.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Do they offer a tryout period?


----------



## MatW

paradoxper said:


> Yes, toe-in shows no resistance you may just squeeze your head raw, but I find toe-out a natural resistance occurs that optimizes the perfect toe-out -- at least for me. If you took a picture of the headband width and a particular toe-out it might also help better clarify. I'd show mine tonight if no other's chime in.


Well, isn't this interesting. After having settled for a toe-in long ago, this post inspired me to try the toe-out. And I like it much better! I changed out the O-rings to a smaller size and changed the pads to 1 / 11 o' clock. It takes some getting used to having the gap in the front rather than the back, but it sure stays in place much better. A big improvement overall. Thanks for sharing. And it just goes to show how many options there are to finetune one's personal fit with this headphone!


----------



## deuter

Does someone know what was we can tighten the screw on the top of the headphone?


----------



## paradoxper

MatW said:


> Well, isn't this interesting. After having settled for a toe-in long ago, this post inspired me to try the toe-out. And I like it much better! I changed out the O-rings to a smaller size and changed the pads to 1 / 11 o' clock. It takes some getting used to having the gap in the front rather than the back, but it sure stays in place much better. A big improvement overall. Thanks for sharing. And it just goes to show how many options there are to finetune one's personal fit with this headphone!


It's what I love about the Abyss that only the SR1a kind of provides; the ability to truly tailor and adjust on the fly sound to better suit the source material.

Glad you found an improvement. This headphone will reward you.


----------



## paradoxper

deuter said:


> Does someone know what was we can tighten the screw on the top of the headphone?


You can use your finger holding from the underside. Otherwise you may need to send it to Abyss for proper tolerance.


----------



## MatW

deuter said:


> Does someone know what was we can tighten the screw on the top of the headphone?


Nothing. Abyss says not to mess with a screw driver, because it does not help and only damages the paint. If you have an issue, the best course of action is to contact Abyss.


----------



## DJJEZ

deuter said:


> Does someone know what was we can tighten the screw on the top of the headphone?


Don't do that. That's not a normal screw that can be tightened lol


----------



## FLTWS

It's a torques screw and Joe told me it is a special tool they use to tighten to a specific amount. Not sure if its a proprietary tool or not.


----------



## paradoxper

FLTWS said:


> It's a torques screw and Joe told me it is a special tool they use to tighten to a specific amount. Not sure if its a proprietary tool or not.


They've covered it in one of their videos. 

You can tighten it with your fingers without damaging the finish with poor hand-tolerance.

In a pinch and all.


----------



## deuter

I was advised the same thing, being in Australia it’s not as simple as a days trip to the shop.
The cost and time involved will be something significant.


----------



## FLTWS

The one on my Phi became loose and wobbly early on because I was returning the top sliders to the closed position from fully open before hanging on stand. Abyss re-tightened it for me no charge and Joe recommended always keeping the phones in the "ready to listen" position. No issues since.


----------



## deuter

It’s a bit of a shame that something that wears so quickly needs to be sent through to the manufacturer for a realignment.


----------



## deuter

One interesting aspect of the headphone is if yo in hold the drivers and gently pull them out increasing the port size the bass bass significantly increases.


----------



## tholt

deuter said:


> It’s a bit of a shame that something that wears so quickly needs to be sent through to the manufacturer for a realignment.


It shouldn't wear quickly in normal use. I've had the same frame for years and screw still holds fine, and I've rotated and moved the two halves quite a bit. It's not a common issue I've ever heard before.



deuter said:


> One interesting aspect of the headphone is if yo in hold the drivers and gently pull them out increasing the port size the bass bass significantly increases.


Yep. You can also rotate the pads for a bigger opening in the back, or bend out the arms. Lots of ways to tweak things


----------



## Womaz

OK so I have had the 1266TC a week now and I promised myself I would not listen to my HEKs for at least a week as this is the best way for me to make a comparison, I cant do the quick switching of HPs with various tracks, for me that just does not work as I find I listen too hard if you like.
Also will state I am not that good at describing what I hear, but I will try.

First things first I think the 1266TC are not as forgiving as the HEK, if the recording is poor, but god you know its poor with the Abyss. I guess thats not really a criticism though.

HEK the vocals seem a little more prominent to me , they seem to take centre stage if that makes sense. I also noticed the drum snare more on the HEK.

My biggest gripe is the comfort of the 1266TC, I am getting used to it but I seem to be continually fiddling with the position of the earcups even after the revelation the other night of having them slightly toed out. The toeing out is a game changer for me as it just made them so much more comfortable on my head. The sound also opened up and I feel the bass sounded better this way too. I am sure I have a few OCDs though any my constant fiddling with the position of the TCs annoys me ....and I accept its me doing the fiddling  . My HEKs just go on my head and stay there.....I never fiddle. IF ONLY THEY SOUNDED AS GOOD AS THE 1266TC , but they definitely do not!

My biggest feeling with the HEK back on is they sound like a closed headphone in comparison, lacking in that open sound and lacking the instrument separation.
The old cliche......yes they sound muddy in comparison.

The Abyss really excels in the bass area , and this is an area I used to love about my HEKs, but the TCs just take this to another level. This was really helped for me when I toed the earcups out a little. The bass then seemed to get tighter and did not become too overpowering. The HEKs bass now sounds dull.....I did not expect that.

So in summing up I would like to get the comfort  issues finally put to bed but the Abyss are keepers.

I wish I could hear the Susvara too but thats not possible. I am sure they would be more comfortable, but what would I miss ? What does the TC have that the Susvara does not? Build quality for sure. The Abyss look like they will last a lifetime and I actually love the look of them.

Thanks to everyone who reached out and helped me on this forum, much appreciated.


----------



## nicholas1213

Just a quick question - can Abyss be the one and only one headphone to keep? E.g. do you feel the need to compliment TC with another pair of headphone, says something that does better in mids?


----------



## ra990

nicholas1213 said:


> Just a quick question - can Abyss be the one and only one headphone to keep? E.g. do you feel the need to compliment TC with another pair of headphone, says something that does better in mids?


Of course it can! If you don't feel any shortcomings then that's all that matters. Personally, I would go to the Susvara if I could only have one.


----------



## Womaz

nicholas1213 said:


> Just a quick question - can Abyss be the one and only one headphone to keep? E.g. do you feel the need to compliment TC with another pair of headphone, says something that does better in mids?


I do not use headphones extensively as others on this forum do so I would say yes , probably .....or maybe   
My HD800S are already up for sale, the HEK will probably follow as this was always my intention. I will take my time with this decision, but to be honest I cant see any situation where I would put the HEK on in place of the Abyss.
If they dont sell I will not push it though , if that makes sense


----------



## Articnoise

Womaz said:


> What does the TC have that the Susvara does not? Build quality for sure. The Abyss look like they will last a lifetime and I actually love the look of them.



If you by good build quality mean gear that need no repair at all Abyss is not that good. Their headband (o-ring) breaks down rather often.


----------



## Womaz

ra990 said:


> Of course it can! If you don't feel any shortcomings then that's all that matters. Personally, I would go to the Susvara if I could only have one.


Comfort? More forgiving? What would be the reason for this. I know this is an Abyss thread but I am genuinely interested to know why.


----------



## Womaz

Articnoise said:


> If you by good build quality mean gear that need no repair at all Abyss is not that good. Their headband (o-ring) breaks down rather often.


I do not have the O-ring. They seem to be built to last.


----------



## paradoxper

Articnoise said:


> If you by good build quality mean gear that need no repair at all Abyss is not that good. Their headband (o-ring) breaks down rather often.


You might rather complain about the $800 ear pad replacements and not the three ****ing cent o ring which is easy to replace. LMAO.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Sep 28, 2021)

nicholas1213 said:


> Just a quick question - can Abyss be the one and only one headphone to keep? E.g. do you feel the need to compliment TC with another pair of headphone, says something that does better in mids?


If you don't need a closed back or a portable option, then I think it can be your only pair of headphones

If you want a different sound, the Susvaras (smoother and more forgiving) or SR1as (higher resolution and larger soundstage) are great choices and contrast well with the TCs


----------



## ken6217

Articnoise said:


> If you by good build quality mean gear that need no repair at all Abyss is not that good. Their headband (o-ring) breaks down rather often.


Spoken like a true non 1266 TC owner. LOL.


----------



## Articnoise

paradoxper said:


> You might rather complain about the $800 ear pad replacements and not the three ****ing cent o ring which is easy to replace. LMAO.



If someone would ever state that the Susvara will last a lifetime, I will let them know about their lousy pads 🤭.


----------



## Articnoise

ken6217 said:


> Spoken like a true non 1266 TC owner. LOL.


Touchy subject?


----------



## paradoxper

Womaz said:


> OK so I have had the 1266TC a week now and I promised myself I would not listen to my HEKs for at least a week as this is the best way for me to make a comparison, I cant do the quick switching of HPs with various tracks, for me that just does not work as I find I listen too hard if you like.
> Also will state I am not that good at describing what I hear, but I will try.
> 
> First things first I think the 1266TC are not as forgiving as the HEK, if the recording is poor, but god you know its poor with the Abyss. I guess thats not really a criticism though.
> ...


What specifics regarding comfort is problematic. Hot spots, clamping, tension?


----------



## ken6217

Articnoise said:


> Touchy subject?


Obviously not, or you either misunderstood my point, and/or I never had this issue. I've had mine since December 2019 and still have the original O ring.

Even if one broke, am I supposed to cry about it as some people do? Shi t happens, and so you spend a couple of bucks and get another one.


----------



## jaboki

Womaz said:


> My biggest gripe is the *comfort* of the 1266TC, I am getting used to it but I seem to be continually *fiddling* with the position of the earcups even after the revelation the other night of having them slightly toed out. The toeing out is a game changer for me as it just made them so much more comfortable on my head. The sound also opened up and I feel the bass sounded better this way too. I am sure I have a few OCDs though any my constant fiddling with the position of the TCs annoys me ....and I accept its me doing the fiddling . My HEKs just go on my head and stay there.....I never fiddle. IF ONLY THEY SOUNDED AS GOOD AS THE 1266TC , but they definitely do not!
> 
> So in summing up I would like to get the *comfort  issues* finally put to bed but the Abyss are keepers.


Comfort/fiddling were the only gripes I didn't like about the TC. It checks every other box outside of that. I just hope... (crossing fingers) they redesign the headband system where "it just works" out of the box and I don't have to fiddle with it. Even if I got it right, I dread the day when a friend asks to listen to adjust it to their head... and the cycle repeats.


----------



## Womaz

paradoxper said:


> What specifics regarding comfort is problematic. Hot spots, clamping, tension?


I think I am a fiddler by nature so the fact that they do not just sit on top of my head and stay there takes some adjusting to. 
Your post last week really helped me and the toeing out is a huge improvement. 
I am used to the HEK and the HD800S , I have not checked but I assume they are much lighter than the Abyss. I will get used to them though I would imagine.


----------



## SuperBurrito

ken6217 said:


> Obviously not, or you either misunderstood my point, and/or I never had this issue. I've had mine since December 2019 and still have the original O ring.
> 
> Even if one broke, am I supposed to cry about it as some people do? Shi t happens, and so you spend a couple of bucks and get another one.


My o-rings snap every month or two.  
Not a huge deal to replace them, but the entire headband system could be massively improved by Abyss.  It should be adjustable from the outset and not need o-rings of different sizes.  I now own $40 of o-rings, which is ridiculous.  

I love the sound of the TC but comfort for me is still not great after many months of fiddling. I'm now on size 218 o-rings and have installed 2 Dakoni nuggets.  Will likely install another 2 nuggets.


----------



## Womaz

jaboki said:


> Comfort/fiddling were the only gripes I didn't like about the TC. It checks every other box outside of that. I just hope... (crossing fingers) they redesign the headband system where "it just works" out of the box and I don't have to fiddle with it. Even if I got it right, I dread the day when a friend asks to listen to adjust it to their head... and the cycle repeats.


Yeah this   
My girlfriend asked for a listen at the weekend , I looked at her as if she had just told me she had bedded my best mate 
I also swear that they dont stay in the same position even when I put them on the stand


----------



## ken6217

SuperBurrito said:


> My o-rings snap every month or two.
> Not a huge deal to replace them, but the entire headband system could be massively improved by Abyss.  It should be adjustable from the outset and not need o-rings of different sizes.  I now own $40 of o-rings, which is ridiculous.
> 
> I love the sound of the TC but comfort for me is still not great after many months of fiddling. I'm now on size 218 o-rings and have installed 2 Dakoni nuggets.  Will likely install another 2 nuggets.


How do they snap that often? You better switch from SuperBurrito to MiniBurrito.


----------



## briantrinh86

Hi folks. Do u know how long for the xiaudio formula s warranty? I attempted to purchase used and can it be transferred to new owner?


----------



## paradoxper

Womaz said:


> I think I am a fiddler by nature so the fact that they do not just sit on top of my head and stay there takes some adjusting to.
> Your post last week really helped me and the toeing out is a huge improvement.
> I am used to the HEK and the HD800S , I have not checked but I assume they are much lighter than the Abyss. I will get used to them though I would imagine.


Fit will always be a challenging endeavor to generalize. I can understand the fiddling nature especially as they should fit more loose than all other headphones. 

If you go back to Joe's fitment video you can see how loose he has the width with how freely the headphones move / "fall off," try a slightly tighter fit where if you tilt your head sideways you find movement but no "fall."


----------



## SuperBurrito

ken6217 said:


> How do they snap that often? You better switch from SuperBurrito to MiniBurrito.


I wish I knew!  I am very gentle with the TCs, don't use them a ton and don't hang them by the headband.  But sometimes when I go to grab them I see that an o-ring has snapped.


----------



## number1sixerfan

nicholas1213 said:


> Just a quick question - can Abyss be the one and only one headphone to keep? E.g. do you feel the need to compliment TC with another pair of headphone, says something that does better in mids?



Many people have the TC alone. The best way to determine if they'd be enough for you as an only headphone is to try them out if you can. I think it totally depends on your listening preferences and the genres you prefer. Imo, the only way they wouldn't be is if the mids are a sticking point for you, or if comfort ends up being an issue. Outside of those two potential factors, it's easily good enough to be.


----------



## tholt

nicholas1213 said:


> Just a quick question - can Abyss be the one and only one headphone to keep? E.g. do you feel the need to compliment TC with another pair of headphone, says something that does better in mids?


It's the only one I have. Not to say that the audiophile FOMO part of me isn't constantly looking, but it's the only one I've found that, despite some negatives, constantly satisfies. It's probably the best available for me since I listen to a lot of electronic music. But as others have mentioned, I wish the mids were a little less recessed and a bit more full-bodied.



jaboki said:


> Comfort/fiddling were the only gripes I didn't like about the TC. It checks every other box outside of that. I just hope... (crossing fingers) they redesign the headband system where "it just works" out of the box and I don't have to fiddle with it. Even if I got it right, I dread the day when a friend asks to listen to adjust it to their head... and the cycle repeats.


The Abyss are one of the most unique fitting headphone out there. It's a blessing and a curse. By design they won't just work out of the box because everyone's head and sonic preferences are different, which requires adjusting the frame and pads. I do like how their fit can be uber tailored, but yeah, nobody else can touch my headphones! That's not to say that the frame and fit couldn't still be improved/updated. Especially because they're such a heavy headphone. For instance, I would love to see a proper way to adjust the frame up/down. Pulling the O rings out or in for this purpose is not a bonafide way to do it, IMO. That's just a side effect of making the frame looser or tighter.



SuperBurrito said:


> My o-rings snap every month or two.
> Not a huge deal to replace them, but the entire headband system could be massively improved by Abyss.  It should be adjustable from the outset and not need o-rings of different sizes.  I now own $40 of o-rings, which is ridiculous.
> 
> I love the sound of the TC but comfort for me is still not great after many months of fiddling. I'm now on size 218 o-rings and have installed 2 Dakoni nuggets.  Will likely install another 2 nuggets.


That would suck and be super annoying.


----------



## ra990

Womaz said:


> Comfort? More forgiving? What would be the reason for this. I know this is an Abyss thread but I am genuinely interested to know why.


I've elaborated on this plenty if you care to search the threads. Basically, I found the Susvara to be more refined, accurate, and comfortable than the Abyss. But, it's less fun than the Abyss for sure. I had both for a while and enjoyed them both equally.


----------



## Sajid Amit

number1sixerfan said:


> Many people have the TC alone. The best way to determine if they'd be enough for you as an only headphone is to try them out if you can. I think it totally depends on your listening preferences and the genres you prefer. Imo, the only way they wouldn't be is if the mids are a sticking point for you, or if comfort ends up being an issue. Outside of those two potential factors, it's easily good enough to be.


+1


----------



## DJJEZ (Sep 28, 2021)

nicholas1213 said:


> Just a quick question - can Abyss be the one and only one headphone to keep? E.g. do you feel the need to compliment TC with another pair of headphone, says something that does better in mids?


If you have a big budget then it's fun to own multiple but if if was on a budget I could quite happily live with the 1266TC as my one and only headphone. They blow my mind everytime I listen to them but that's just my opinion


----------



## MasterZen

Lately I've noticed the right driver is having issues. At moderately loud volumes there's audible distortion at certain frequencies like piano notes. As if something inside is vibrating and is loose. Sounds like 'tssk tssk'. Anyone had this issue before? 2 abyss headphones and both have had issues 😥


----------



## ra990

MasterZen said:


> Lately I've noticed the right driver is having issues. At moderately loud volumes there's audible distortion at certain frequencies like piano notes. As if something inside is vibrating and is loose. Sounds like 'tssk tssk'. Anyone had this issue before? 2 abyss headphones and both have had issues 😥


I'm guessing you've already tried swapping L/R cables and making sure the noise remains on the same side to ensure that it's the headphone and not your source? 

I've definitely experienced issues like that before and I know others here have as well. Your best bet is to reach out to Abyss for an inspection. They will take care of you.


----------



## number1sixerfan

MasterZen said:


> Lately I've noticed the right driver is having issues. At moderately loud volumes there's audible distortion at certain frequencies like piano notes. As if something inside is vibrating and is loose. Sounds like 'tssk tssk'. Anyone had this issue before? 2 abyss headphones and both have had issues 😥



I absolutely have this issue with my right driver as well. It is very, very minute--really faint and only on certain tracks. So I've been hesitant to send in to Abyss, but will do so eventually just in case. Has anyone sent theirs back to Abyss to resolve? Any idea of root cause and cost to repair?


----------



## ra990

number1sixerfan said:


> I absolutely have this issue with my right driver as well. It is very, very minute--really faint and only on certain tracks. So I've been hesitant to send in to Abyss, but will do so eventually just in case. Has anyone sent theirs back to Abyss to resolve? Any idea of root cause and cost to repair?


I've had more than a couple pairs of the 1266 sent into Abyss for this issue. In my case, it was always the left driver. Each time, they confirmed the issue and replaced it. No root cause or any kind of explanation was provided. I'm on my 4th pair. I've been hesitant to post this, but it's come up enough that we deserve an explanation at least.


----------



## number1sixerfan

ra990 said:


> I've had more than a couple pairs of the 1266 sent into Abyss for this issue. In my case, it was always the left driver. Each time, they confirmed the issue and replaced it. No root cause or any kind of explanation was provided. I'm on my 4th pair. I've been hesitant to post this, but it's come up enough that we deserve an explanation at least.



Thanks for the response. Much appreciated. Ok, I'll reach out to them. I bought my pair used, so I'm sure I'm probably out of warranty, but I'll discuss with them. Don't want to be without them for extended time, but it doesn't make sense to keep putting off.


----------



## MasterZen

ra990 said:


> I've had more than a couple pairs of the 1266 sent into Abyss for this issue. In my case, it was always the left driver. Each time, they confirmed the issue and replaced it. No root cause or any kind of explanation was provided. I'm on my 4th pair. I've been hesitant to post this, but it's come up enough that we deserve an explanation at least.



Wow 4th Pair! I have the same issue using different cables so can only assume it is the driver issue.

I'm also hesitant to send back, I also got my pair used as well so doubt there is warranty. Mostly hesitant to send back because UK to USA is going to be expensiveee. Might wait for some more problems to creep up first...


----------



## ra990 (Sep 28, 2021)

MasterZen said:


> Wow 4th Pair! I have the same issue using different cables so can only assume it is the driver issue.
> 
> I'm also hesitant to send back, I also got my pair used as well so doubt there is warranty. Mostly hesitant to send back because UK to USA is going to be expensiveee. Might wait for some more problems to creep up first...


Although Abyss has been great at replacing them when the issue creeps up, I really would love to know what the issue is. It does suck to have to be without them for weeks, and shipping them in each time does cost a decent amount when fully insuring, which I always do. They take care of return shipping, thankfully. I almost gave up after my third pair, which is why I bought the Susvara last year. Then I ended up missing the Abyss a lot and got lucky with the last pair (fingers crossed).

Maybe QC has improved at Abyss after the reddit/ASR crinkled driver controversy?


----------



## qboogie

MasterZen said:


> Lately I've noticed the right driver is having issues. At moderately loud volumes there's audible distortion at certain frequencies like piano notes. As if something inside is vibrating and is loose. Sounds like 'tssk tssk'. Anyone had this issue before? 2 abyss headphones and both have had issues 😥


Yes I have had this problem before. I found a tiny little strand of carpet fuzz against the driver which would vibrate at certain frequencies or sections of a song. Once I removed it the issue resolved.


----------



## FLTWS

A hair off my head once. Had to use a magnifier and light to find it since my hair is gray.


----------



## MasterZen

Unbelievably, looking under the pads, tiny bit of fuzz? Used a dust blower , cleaned it up a bit. 

Cannot replicate that distortion noise on the track that was always audible. Crazy!


----------



## MatW

MasterZen said:


> Unbelievably, looking under the pads, tiny bit of fuzz? Used a dust blower , cleaned it up a bit.
> 
> Cannot replicate that distortion noise on the track that was always audible. Crazy!


I had a similar issue, found a hair and problem solved. Amazing how big an impact 1 hair can have with this headphone...😊


Womaz said:


> OK so I have had the 1266TC a week now and I promised myself I would not listen to my HEKs for at least a week as this is the best way for me to make a comparison, I cant do the quick switching of HPs with various tracks, for me that just does not work as I find I listen too hard if you like.
> Also will state I am not that good at describing what I hear, but I will try.
> 
> First things first I think the 1266TC are not as forgiving as the HEK, if the recording is poor, but god you know its poor with the Abyss. I guess thats not really a criticism though.
> ...


There is one more thing you can do to improve the comfort: buy O rings in several sizes. I just changed from a toe-in to a toe-out position, changed the O rings and pad position, and the fit is pretty much perfect now. The pads grip the area behind my ears, so it is pretty stable, with the air gap in the front. When I toed out instead of in, the headband shifted upward on my head, so the distance to my ears was reduced and I needed smaller O rings. I have a whole set of differences sizes, which came in handy now.


----------



## ken6217

MasterZen said:


> Unbelievably, looking under the pads, tiny bit of fuzz? Used a dust blower , cleaned it up a bit.
> 
> Cannot replicate that distortion noise on the track that was always audible. Crazy!


In the future you should find a different way to remove it. I was told by Joe at Abyss not to blow on the drivers.


----------



## ra990

ken6217 said:


> In the future you should find a different way to remove it. I was told by Joe at Abyss not to blow on the drivers.


Yea if you ruin the driver by blowing air on it, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't cover it under warranty. Great that it worked, but I agree, be safe and send it in. They'll return them to you reconditioned.


----------



## Womaz

I do not want to derail this thread again so I am adding a link to a new thread as I am looking for some guidance again. I hope this is allowed.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-headphones-now-keen-to-learn-more.959940/


----------



## Ruddy1

Abyss1266 fakes have appeared in China. Please pay attention​







This is a photo of a fake. The word LCD 2016 is written on the unit diaphragm.


There are some abnormalities in the appearance of the headset.

1. The cork pad is very thick, 1mm thick. For the other 1266 I disassembled, this layer is only about 0.2mm.

2. The logo part is very rough and feels very burry, but early manufacturers used laser marking.

3. The whole machine is brushed aluminum spray painted, and the official is sand blasting + spray painting.

4. The cover plate is laser cut, and the fineness is not enough. The laser starting point is obvious. The process on other 1266 is very fine. It should be wire cut or laser, but the path is made.

At present, it has circulated in China's second-hand market, and the price is abnormally low. Many people have been deceived. I don't know when it will flow overseas


----------



## Ruddy1

This is more about abyss1266 fake photos and sound curves! The impedance of fake 1266 is 28 ohms


----------



## Ruddy1

I hope the official can declare that this is not their abyss1266, because fake goods are too similar to real ones


----------



## Ruddy1

Tell more people! Prevent them from buying fake 1266. The sound of fake 1266 is very poor


----------



## PortableAudioLover

Ruddy1 said:


> Tell more people! Prevent them from buying fake 1266. The sound of fake 1266 is very poor


just buy from authorized dealers. don't cheap out, especially on flagships.


----------



## Ruddy1

PortableAudioLover said:


> just buy from authorized dealers. don't cheap out, especially on flagships.


yes


----------



## paradoxper

I think that's awesome in the ridiculous way.

If you are stupid enough to buy the fake, you are one of haste. Or if your name is Lil Baby, you also get what you deserve.


----------



## DJJEZ (Sep 30, 2021)

Ruddy1 said:


> Abyss1266 fakes have appeared in China. Please pay attention​
> This is a photo of a fake. The word LCD 2016 is written on the unit diaphragm.
> 
> 
> ...


That's ridiculous. @Abyss Headphones check this out.


----------



## Ruddy1

http://www.headphoneclub.com/forum....7%D6%B0%E6&tid=746781&mobile=2&mod=viewthread
I just reprint it. You can see it in this link


----------



## Gavin C4

MasterZen said:


> Lately I've noticed the right driver is having issues. At moderately loud volumes there's audible distortion at certain frequencies like piano notes. As if something inside is vibrating and is loose. Sounds like 'tssk tssk'. Anyone had this issue before? 2 abyss headphones and both have had issues 😥



I think you can check the seal of the headphones. For example checking if you have a leak from your earpads. Or adjust the frame, angle and headband. As we know the TC driver will have a slightly different response with different level of seal.

See if adjusting the seal will help.


----------



## ra990

That looks so close to the real thing. If I came across it, I would think it was just an OG Abyss 1266. 

Abyss, you know what they say...imitation is the highest form of flattery!


----------



## Abyss Headphones

We’re aware of it. Apparently some guy in China enjoys making knock off headphones of various manufactures. If he was smart he would use all that energy to make his own in his image with his own brand name; maybe one day.


----------



## vkenz

well, if you can instead make a very entry level affordable headphones maybe they will stop cloning?


----------



## Abyss Headphones

We talked about this...


----------



## Ruddy1

I may have described it wrong, although they made fakes. But they didn't sell them cheaply, but pretended to be third-party distributors in various places and sold them as genuine products. The user only found out that something was wrong after the purchase. They usually sell fakes for $3,200. One thing is very important, they will pretend to be the old version of 1266 instead of the new version of tc.


----------



## GU1DO (Sep 30, 2021)

Ruddy1 said:


> Abyss1266 fakes have appeared in China. Please pay attention​
> This is a photo of a fake. The word LCD 2016 is written on the unit diaphragm.
> 
> 
> ...


Finally we could get spare parts (headband) for good price


----------



## Dynamo5561

Was worried when I checked the logo on my 1266 OG in depth :






But all good  Sounds also fantastic 







MasterZen said:


> Unbelievably, looking under the pads, tiny bit of fuzz? Used a dust blower , cleaned it up a bit.


While they were disassembled it was a great opportunity to clean them and check out this great tip  Works pretty well if you know what you are doing!


----------



## jlbrach

incredibly as a long time abyss 1266 owner and lover...from OG to all the different versions and of course TC today I was shocked that a little change in pad position has amazingly improved the sound even more....I had basically been using the same pad position all along and just for kicks I tried different settings and settled on a different one that is more comfortable and to my surprise and delight with a bit more of an opening in the back of the ear cups things have really changed for the better....more open sounding,bass even more incredible and all in simply marvelous...that is the really great thing about this HP the amount of changes one can create....


----------



## mleader

Ciggavelli said:


> I used to go high impedance and high gain. I switched it to low impedance and high gain recently, and I think it sounds better.


Did the same, switched to low impedance and high gain, sounds better and less fatiguing on the ears.


----------



## Sajid Amit

jlbrach said:


> incredibly as a long time abyss 1266 owner and lover...from OG to all the different versions and of course TC today I was shocked that a little change in pad position has amazingly improved the sound even more....I had basically been using the same pad position all along and just for kicks I tried different settings and settled on a different one that is more comfortable and to my surprise and delight with a bit more of an opening in the back of the ear cups things have really changed for the better....more open sounding,bass even more incredible and all in simply marvelous...that is the really great thing about this HP the amount of changes one can create....


What change was this @jlbrach?


----------



## jlbrach

position of the ear pads....


----------



## Womaz (Oct 1, 2021)

Deleted


----------



## vonBaron

I just came back from a local meet where the main attraction was WA33 + Dave and I must admit that I still have a jaw on the ground! My 1266 TC has never played like this before. Interestingly, I preferred the 1266 TC on my cable (Lazuli Ultra) than the SC, the SC clearly reduced the sound of the 1266 and added some treble.


----------



## Barone Birra

Dynamo5561 said:


> Was worried when I checked the logo on my 1266 OG in depth :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Isn't the membrane wrinkled?


----------



## ken6217

Abyss Headphones said:


> We’re aware of it. Apparently some guy in China enjoys making knock off headphones of various manufactures. If he was smart he would use all that energy to make his own in his image with his own brand name; maybe one day.





vonBaron said:


> I just came back from a local meet where the main attraction was WA33 + Dave and I must admit that I still have a jaw on the ground! My 1266 TC has never played like this before. Interestingly, I preferred the 1266 TC on my cable (Lazuli Ultra) than the SC, the SC clearly reduced the sound of the 1266 and added some treble.


That would make sense regarding those two cables.

I know you have a Dave mixed in there, but are you able detail the difference in sound between the WA 33 and your Nimbus?


----------



## ra990

Barone Birra said:


> Isn't the membrane wrinkled?


I guess the OG is pretty old by now. Not sure how long these drivers should stay properly tensioned given all the variance in temperatures, moisture, etc.


----------



## Samatar10

Yesterday  hifiman susvara arrived and today 1266 tc.I think i like tc a lot more than susvara on my first day impression.Also it is way more comfortable than i thought it would be


----------



## Ciggavelli

Samatar10 said:


> Yesterday  hifiman susvara arrived and today 1266 tc.I think i like tc a lot more than susvara on my first day impression.Also it is way more comfortable than i thought it would be


The Susvaras take a while to properly appreciate. It literally took me months to fully understand them. They’re just a complex pair of headphones.

Overall, I like the TCs better, but the the Susvaras are 2 or 3 in my book


----------



## DJJEZ (Oct 2, 2021)

Samatar10 said:


> Yesterday  hifiman susvara arrived and today 1266 tc.I think i like tc a lot more than susvara on my first day impression.Also it is way more comfortable than i thought it would be


Congrats. I adore both but you just cant beat the TC for bass but Both are insanely amazing and definetley worth owning both. Enjoy dude


----------



## vonBaron (Oct 2, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> That would make sense regarding those two cables.
> 
> I know you have a Dave mixed in there, but are you able detail the difference in sound between the WA 33 and your Nimbus?


Sadly no, but i will loan SC to try it out in my Niimbus. I tested Susvara too and vs 1266 they was only nice.
SC sound was really nice, 1266 have more balance sound on it.
WA33 is still not for me, big, bulky, heat and price 

WA33 will give you more on specify headphone but Niimbus is more universall, for example my TH-900 sound like trash on WA33, D8000 Pro just litte better. WA33 was great with 1266. LCD-4z and Stealth.


----------



## vonBaron

And still WA33 have ALPS volume control and i heard hum.


----------



## spacelion2077

Did anyone go to CamJam SoCal this year?


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Oct 3, 2021)

What do folks think of the audeze lcd-5 in comparison to the tc - a serious contender for the throne  ?


----------



## deuter

Hoegaardener70 said:


> What do folks think of the audeze lcd-5 in comparison to the tc - a serious contender for the throne  ?


What throne ? There is no such thing as top headphone.


----------



## MatW

deuter said:


> What throne ? There is no such thing as top headphone.


Sure there is. The one that is regarded by most to be the best, sits on the throne. Doesn't mean that it's the best for everyone. And I guess that's what you're alluding to.


----------



## deuter

MatW said:


> Sure there is. The one that is regarded by most to be the best, sits on the throne. Doesn't mean that it's the best for everyone. And I guess that's what you're alluding to.


I do agree to some extend but at this level all the flagships differ by what they believe is the house sound for that brand. None the better.


----------



## spacelion2077

MatW said:


> Sure there is. The one that is regarded by most to be the best, sits on the throne. Doesn't mean that it's the best for everyone. And I guess that's what you're alluding to.


Sennheiser He 1 or Hifiman shangri-la ?


----------



## eee1111

Hoegaardener70 said:


> What do folks think of the audeze lcd-5 in comparison to the tc - a serious contender for the throne  ?


Imo there are 2 on the planar throne

Susvara and TC

I think from all the reading I’ve done audeze have a susvara competitor in the lcd5

so there might be 3 planar kings if LCD5 is worthy


----------



## paradoxper

Hoegaardener70 said:


> What do folks think of the audeze lcd-5 in comparison to the tc - a serious contender for the throne  ?


Considerably doubtful. Qualifiers of the trend with planars chasing stat characteristic, nothing touches the TC bass presentation amongst it's wide sound-field and ultimate resolution matching the best stats, you'd likely be asking what does the LCD-5 contend with that the Susvara does not provide.


----------



## number1sixerfan

spacelion2077 said:


> Sennheiser He 1 or Hifiman shangri-la ?



Too much of a price gap to consider in the same category really.. that said, trying to crown a single headphone as 'best' is just silly lol. The only place you'll find consensus is in each of the main threads like this where each owner claims theirs is best and better than others. That's about it lol. I also don't even really get the point in trying to do so.


----------



## GenEricOne

About to purchase the 1266 Phi TC from Abyss but I'm a bit confused by the options on their site (https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...s-ab-1266-phi-headphone?variant=7865778176043).

What's the difference between the "Default" connector and the "4 pin balanced XLR"? The description for the Lite (which I assume is for Default):


> Balanced 8 FT (2.5 meter) 4 pin XLR cable, with flexible 1/4" (6.3 mm) adaptor. All cables are high performance custom made by JPS Labs for Abyss.



Does the "4 pin balanced XLR" simply not include the 1/4in adapter?


----------



## mitchb

I believe that the cable with the 4pin XLR comes with the adapter to single ended. It comes this way with the least expensive option. The most expensive option comes with the upgraded superior $3000 cable.


----------



## MatW

GenEricOne said:


> About to purchase the 1266 Phi TC from Abyss but I'm a bit confused by the options on their site (https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...s-ab-1266-phi-headphone?variant=7865778176043).
> 
> What's the difference between the "Default" connector and the "4 pin balanced XLR"? The description for the Lite (which I assume is for Default):
> 
> ...


Yes it's confusing but just leave it at 'default'


----------



## GenEricOne

MatW said:


> Yes it's confusing but just leave it at 'default'


Thank you! Ordered.


----------



## julien-hifi (Oct 3, 2021)

Hello, I own a SC cable terminated in 4pin xlr, and it’s 8ft, 2.4m. I actually don’t need a cable that long, 6ft would be fine. So if anyone is interested to exchange, let me know…


----------



## Hoegaardener70

deuter said:


> What throne ? There is no such thing as top headphone.


That was actually meant tongue in cheek. 

But the question how the LCD-5 comparers at a similar but slightly lesser price point is an interesting one.


----------



## Womaz

I Just want to say that I am quite literally blown away by these headphones.

I was not expecting such a huge jump in performance. Six years ago I bought the HEK and at the time they were labelled the best HP in the world……ok it was reviewer hype but they were raved about.

I read a lot on this forum, I don’t contribute a lot as there are far more knowledgable members than me so I leave them to it. I read a lot about once you have a high end HP the differences are subtle.

This difference is not subtle, it’s a huge step up to me. Maybe it’s the advancement of tech in 6 years but its not subtle to me.

It does get you thinking about ….better amps…….better DACs but do you know what right now this Burson 3X Reference sounds amazing to me. Maybe it suits the TCs….I don’t know. I am leaning towards keeping it . Or upgrading the Burson way with the new Soloist GT and then a new DAC would be required. 


I am a one to two hours per week HP listener. In the last two weeks it has been 6 to 8 hours per day. I know its new toy syndrome but I can honestly say I have never had that like I have it now.

They are making me listen to all sorts of music I would never have listened to.

I will follow this thread with a great deal of interest.


----------



## stemiki

Womaz said:


> I Just want to say that I am quite literally blown away by these headphones.
> 
> I was not expecting such a huge jump in performance. Six years ago I bought the HEK and at the time they were labelled the best HP in the world……ok it was reviewer hype but they were raved about.
> 
> ...


A lot of new Top Headphones are coming out these past few days. But reading the various comments of those who are buying them, we see that the reference point is always Abyss TC and little else


----------



## nicholas1213

I am going to throw a bomb here (more for fun but not seeking a heated debate - hopefully not 😅): 
i)  $2.8k for Abyss 1266 phi (non CC / TC)
ii) $3.8k for Susvara (3.5mm version)

Priced in USD.. Both are equally tempting, I know ultimately it is down to personal preference and also available equipment to drive each of them.. Would like to seek some opinion before pulling the trigger


----------



## DJJEZ (Oct 6, 2021)

nicholas1213 said:


> I am going to throw a bomb here (more for fun but not seeking a heated debate - hopefully not 😅):
> i)  $2.8k for Abyss 1266 phi (non CC / TC)
> ii) $3.8k for Susvara (3.5mm version)
> 
> Priced in USD.. Both are equally tempting, I know ultimately it is down to personal preference and also available equipment to drive each of them.. Would like to seek some opinion before pulling the trigger


What amp will you drive them with? The susvara are pretty difficult to drive compared to the 1266


----------



## MatW

nicholas1213 said:


> I am going to throw a bomb here (more for fun but not seeking a heated debate - hopefully not 😅):
> i)  $2.8k for Abyss 1266 phi (non CC / TC)
> ii) $3.8k for Susvara (3.5mm version)
> 
> Priced in USD.. Both are equally tempting, I know ultimately it is down to personal preference and also available equipment to drive each of them.. Would like to seek some opinion before pulling the trigger


iii) spend a little more and get a TC


----------



## nicholas1213

DJJEZ said:


> What amp will you drive them with? The susvara are pretty difficult to drive compared to the 1266TC



My current amp is probably good enough for 1266 (seen user pairing them with pleasing result), but will not know how well it will pair with Susvara until I try it out - it is a Glenn el3n amp.


----------



## nicholas1213

MatW said:


> iii) spend a little more and get a TC



Nice one.. There is one offer $4.5k for a brand new TC which I think is equally tempting..


----------



## MatW

nicholas1213 said:


> Nice one.. There is one offer $4.5k for a brand new TC which I think is equally tempting..


That would be my choice for sure. If you buy an older version it's only a matter of time before you upgrade and lose some money in the process. That's a pretty good price too, I wish I bought mine for that...


----------



## simorag

nicholas1213 said:


> Nice one.. There is one offer $4.5k for a brand new TC which I think is equally tempting..



The TC further reduces the gap with the Susvara in terms of midrange naturalness compared to the Phi. With your delicious tube amp (and even more with the help of the Superconductor cable you may want to consider in the future) you would be in a very happy position to enjoy the mighty bass, the transparency and uniquely theatrical staging of the AB-1266 without worrying too much about that very slight residual hint of recession / thinness in the midrange.

Personally, although I liked _very _much the Susvara (see here) and still think they are the only real contender to the AB-1266 as all-rounder headphones, ultimately I sold them with no regrets ever since.


----------



## nicholas1213

simorag said:


> The TC further reduces the gap with the Susvara in terms of midrange naturalness compared to the Phi. With your delicious tube amp (and even more with the help of the Superconductor cable you may want to consider in the future) you would be in a very happy position to enjoy the mighty bass, the transparency and uniquely theatrical staging of the AB-1266 without worrying too much about that very slight residual hint of recession / thinness in the midrange.
> 
> Personally, although I liked _very _much the Susvara (see here) and still think they are the only real contender to the AB-1266 as all-rounder headphones, ultimately I sold them with no regrets ever since.



I am glad I come across your review comparing both TOTL cans. I have also read numerous review but the way you described both of them are really helpful. 

Bringing it down to a lower tier, I was struggling between ZMF VC and also RAD-0 (well, their difference are not as dractic compared to 1266 & Susvara). Vocal for me is what I weighted a lot, so in the end I picked RAD-0 over the VC. 

I am sure TC's strength over-shadow the slight imperfection on the recessed mids. While I am reading your write-up, I have a strong feeling that Susvara will fit my bill. Well again I will only be able to listen to the 1266 phi and Susvara side-by-side. I will see how it goes. 

Thanks again for chipping in! Ultimately owning both TC and Susvara will be like having the best of both world, they should compliment each others perfectly! I shall report back the 1266 phi vs Susvara if it is any helpful for anyone looking at a used 1266 phi after hearing both.


----------



## MatW

nicholas1213 said:


> I am glad I come across your review comparing both TOTL cans. I have also read numerous review but the way you described both of them are really helpful.
> 
> Bringing it down to a lower tier, I was struggling between ZMF VC and also RAD-0 (well, their difference are not as dractic compared to 1266 & Susvara). Vocal for me is what I weighted a lot, so in the end I picked RAD-0 over the VC.
> 
> ...


If vocals are your things, then yes, the Susvara may be the way to go.


----------



## Pashmeister

nicholas1213 said:


> I am going to throw a bomb here (more for fun but not seeking a heated debate - hopefully not 😅):
> i)  $2.8k for Abyss 1266 phi (non CC / TC)
> ii) $3.8k for Susvara (3.5mm version)
> 
> Priced in USD.. Both are equally tempting, I know ultimately it is down to personal preference and also available equipment to drive each of them.. Would like to seek some opinion before pulling the trigger


I would probably get the Susvara instead of the non-TC for now. There’s a big chance you’ll end up owning both in the future anyway 😅 

Or wait for a TC deal but future-proof yourself and get an amp that can also drive the Susvara for that eventuality.


----------



## SuperBurrito

nicholas1213 said:


> I am going to throw a bomb here (more for fun but not seeking a heated debate - hopefully not 😅):
> i)  $2.8k for Abyss 1266 phi (non CC / TC)
> ii) $3.8k for Susvara (3.5mm version)
> 
> Priced in USD.. Both are equally tempting, I know ultimately it is down to personal preference and also available equipment to drive each of them.. Would like to seek some opinion before pulling the trigger


At least to me there is a pretty huge difference in comfort between the two.  I love the 1266 but one hour of listening is probably the limit for me.  Susvara is all day. 
But I know many people here are used to the weight and fit of the 1266.


----------



## Womaz (Oct 6, 2021)

SuperBurrito said:


> At least to me there is a pretty huge difference in comfort between the two.  I love the 1266 but one hour of listening is probably the limit for me.  Susvara is all day.
> But I know many people here are used to the weight and fit of the 1266.


I am not sure the weight is an issue. I had some issues when I first got the TC as I found it difficult to get the right fit, I was forever playing about with it and found it uncomfortable on top of my head. However I took some advice on here and a few adjustments and it has solved the problem. They are a heavy headphone I guess but they really do not feel it once you have it in the right position. It does take some getting used to as I have not worn a HP like this , but I think when positioned correctly they are more than comfortable.
I have replied as it was one of my big fears when deciding between the TC and the Susvara.


----------



## DJJEZ

I feel the same. After getting the fit right and wearing them more and more and getting used to the weight they are very comfortable to me now and the weight doesn't bother me anymore.


----------



## paradoxper

SuperBurrito said:


> At least to me there is a pretty huge difference in comfort between the two.  I love the 1266 but one hour of listening is probably the limit for me.  Susvara is all day.
> But I know many people here are used to the weight and fit of the 1266.


That's the inverse argument of Susvara all-day comfort to Empyrean, true all-day comfort.

Some will find TC a burden. I can wear mine at least up to 4-5 hours.


----------



## Pashmeister

I don't mind the 1266 weight. Once you find a fit that works for you, it just sits on your head fine. Also, I sometimes listen _diagonally _as I lounge in a  beanbag and then forget the weight altogether.


----------



## dukeskd

Your neck muscles also get a good workout in.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

It took me a very long time to get used to it, but by now I think the TC is the most comfy headphone with glasses.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

Hoegaardener70 said:


> It took me a very long time to get used to it, but by now I think the TC is the most comfy headphone with glasses.


This is also my experience and I compared against HD800s.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

nicholas1213 said:


> I am going to throw a bomb here (more for fun but not seeking a heated debate - hopefully not 😅):
> i)  $2.8k for Abyss 1266 phi (non CC / TC)
> ii) $3.8k for Susvara (3.5mm version)
> 
> Priced in USD.. Both are equally tempting, I know ultimately it is down to personal preference and also available equipment to drive each of them.. Would like to seek some opinion before pulling the trigger


if you can get TC for 2.8k, definitely go for them !


----------



## jlbrach

if you are debating the OG abyss vs susvara get the susvara...easy....if it is the TC different discussion


----------



## WafflesID

Orlok said:


> As stated earlier in a review on this thread, my only experience driving the TC has been with the TT2's SE and XLR outs and the TToby's speaker taps. I started out with the SE and I thought it sounded great. Turned up to my normal listening levels (80~85dB peak) and even louder (probably 90~95dB which is uncomfortably loud for me) and didn't think _at all_ that something was missing. Then I tried the TT2's XLR outs at my normal listening level and immediately noticed a bigger soundstage and a firmer and punchier bass. It was a very noticeable improvement and I was feeling extremely satisfied. My initial review was only with the SE output.
> 
> The next day, while I was still very much enjoying the TT2's XLR outs, I decided to finally try the TToby's speaker taps after the encouragement to do so from @Spawn300Z. I thought, "Okay, okay. I guess I might as well since I ordered the speaker taps adapter to try that out." Honestly, I wasn't expecting there to be that much of an improvement over the TT2's XLR outs. The XLR outs measured plenty hot - definitely a good deal more than enough to drive the TC. So I thought that I'd try it and then go back to the TT2's XLRs. Also, I was also somewhat worried about the risks involved and frying the TC's drivers as well as damaging my ears if this wasn't handled cautiously. So I really thought that I'd try it to say I've tried it and move on.
> 
> ...



Did you ever end up getting a HP amp for the TC?  I have a TC coming in a few weeks. Trying to decide what to do for amp.  I have the Topping A90 until I decide on which direction to go.   I'm leaning towards FS+PM or TToby.  This almost has me leaning more towards TToby right now.


----------



## Bonddam

I have a cool speaker amp that I got on a sale with 1266 original made by Cherry. The thing is freakin small and seperate power supply. It's smaller then THX 789 class D done the right way and 75/channel also looks super nice. It doesn't sound like class D very analog sounding. Amazing on 1266. I was going to sell it until I listened to it on my 
towers.


----------



## paradoxper

PortableAudioLover said:


> if you can get TC for 2.8k, definitely go for them !


You gettin' that from China? LOL

We can get you a TC for as low as $4k. Anything else is a miracle.


----------



## ufospls2

PortableAudioLover said:


> if you can get TC for 2.8k, definitely go for them !


I'm 99% sure he meant 2.8k for non CC, and non TC. So either Original or Phi, at 2.8kUSD, probably Phi.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

paradoxper said:


> You gettin' that from China? LOL
> 
> We can get you a TC for as low as $4k. Anything else is a miracle.





ufospls2 said:


> I'm 99% sure he meant 2.8k for non CC, and non TC. So either Original or Phi, at 2.8kUSD, probably Phi.


yea I am surprised to find that you could get 2.8k. TC does hold their values and for a good reason too after adjusting for comfort.


----------



## MatW

PortableAudioLover said:


> if you can get TC for 2.8k, definitely go for them !


The man said "Abyss 1266 phi (non CC / TC)".


----------



## nicholas1213

PortableAudioLover said:


> if you can get TC for 2.8k, definitely go for them !



Well that will be a no brainer deal! The $2.8k is 1266 phi (non CC / TC). Still a good deal nevertheless.



jlbrach said:


> if you are debating the OG abyss vs susvara get the susvara...easy....if it is the TC different discussion



It is the 1266 phi.. I will give both a listen later and report back which one I will ended up with. 



paradoxper said:


> Some will find TC a burden. I can wear mine at least up to 4-5 hours.



Coming from LCD-X I am actually less worried with the weight, and based on so many actual user here, I have no doubt that comfort is achievable, just that it is not as straight forward, require more time to optimize it, but it should be fun!


----------



## deuter

jlbrach said:


> if you are debating the OG abyss vs susvara get the susvara...easy....if it is the TC different discussion


I don’t agree, The OG is very much the TC without the extra treble and midrange detail.
You owe yourself a listen, might sell your TC and upgrade your source.


----------



## deuter

My most recent adjustment is something g I used sometime back.
The headphones just sit on the head and the ear pads lightly kiss my cheeks.
This gives me all the detail and soundstage with gobbles of extremely low freq bass.


----------



## Womaz

I also think we get used to whatever we are using. I did struggle with the TCs at first and I missed the simple HEK , put it on  my head , it holds its place and that was it.
So last week I put the HEK back on and it felt like a vice squeezing my head (ok a slight exaggeration) , it felt tight. I never felt that when they were used for years and its simply because I wear my TCs very loose. Our brain just gets used to something.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

Just wondering, is there a consensus here that the best solid state amp for 1266 TC is formula S + powerman ?


----------



## paradoxper

PortableAudioLover said:


> Just wondering, is there a consensus here that the best solid state amp for 1266 TC is formula S + powerman ?


The consensus is it's a competent choice.


----------



## ken6217

PortableAudioLover said:


> Just wondering, is there a consensus here that the best solid state amp for 1266 TC is formula S + powerman ?


That’s like saying is there a consensus on what the best food is.


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> That’s like saying is there a consensus on what the best food is.


Tacos. Duh


----------



## ken6217

tholt said:


> Tacos. Duh


I guess that means you like salsa music.


----------



## genefruit

PortableAudioLover said:


> Just wondering, is there a consensus here that the best solid state amp for 1266 TC is formula S + powerman ?


Is there anyone who has used the CFA3 & 1266 TC combination and then chosen a different solid state amp?


----------



## DJJEZ (Oct 7, 2021)

PortableAudioLover said:


> Just wondering, is there a consensus here that the best solid state amp for 1266 TC is formula S + powerman ?


The best? No, but it's an extremely good starting point and an amazing pairing and I'm extremely happy with mine but I plan to try other amps soon just out of curiosity.


----------



## ken6217

genefruit said:


> Is there anyone who has used the CFA3 & 1266 TC combination and then chosen a different solid state amp?


No turning back now.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

DJJEZ said:


> The best? No, but it's an extremely good starting point and I'm extremely happy with mine but I plan to try other amps soon just out of curiosity.


What are you thinking about trying next ?


----------



## mitchb

I’m happy with my Niimbus but I have never tried any of the other “big boys” out there. I am naive to tube amps.


----------



## deuter

DJJEZ said:


> The best? No, but it's an extremely good starting point and an amazing pairing and I'm extremely happy with mine but I plan to try other amps soon just out of curiosity.


Starting point ?
Most of us start with humble amps such as a Vioelectric v281, benchmark, chord tt2, hpa 1 or someone like me with a liquid platinum.
I consider something like formula s and powerman to be it.
Going any further I need a better headphone and I don’t believe there is one so Abyss might need to build a new flagship.


----------



## Womaz

deuter said:


> Starting point ?
> Most of us start with humble amps such as a Vioelectric v281, benchmark, chord tt2, hpa 1 or someone like me with a liquid platinum.
> I consider something like formula s and powerman to be it.
> Going any further I need a better headphone and I don’t believe there is one so Abyss might need to build a new flagship.


Yeah I was thinking that ....thats some starting point.   Not sure I will even get to that as my endgame


----------



## DJJEZ (Oct 7, 2021)

deuter said:


> Starting point ?
> Most of us start with humble amps such as a Vioelectric v281, benchmark, chord tt2, hpa 1 or someone like me with a liquid platinum.
> I consider something like formula s and powerman to be it.
> Going any further I need a better headphone and I don’t believe there is one so Abyss might need to build a new flagship.


I agree with what your saying but For me the formula S and P was a starting point as a high end amp for the abyss 1266tc and susvara as I always planned to go higher down the road. I absolutely love it with the abyss but as you know in this hobby, curiosity always gets the better of you with gear and wanting to have something to aim for/better than what you own. Will I waste my time and money and come full circle? We shall see lol After trying other amps I will report back here and be completely honest about it and whether it was worth it. I also got the formula S and P for a crazy crazy low price for about 45% of retail cost from a forum member on here so didn't pay anywhere close to retail price so in my mind it's not as expensive as it is lol

I'm sorry if my comment came across as big headed. I didn't mean for it to sound like that. I should of explained it better in my original reply.


----------



## Womaz

DJJEZ said:


> I agree with what your saying but For me the formula S and P was a starting point as a high end amp for the abyss 1266tc and susvara as I always planned to go higher down the road. After trying other amps I will report back here. I also got it for a crazy crazy low price from a forum member on here so didn't pay anywhere close to retail price.


Does this mean when you get rid of it you will pass that crazy crazy low price on to someone else ......like maybe me


----------



## jlbrach

deuter said:


> I don’t agree, The OG is very much the TC without the extra treble and midrange detail.
> You owe yourself a listen, might sell your TC and upgrade your source.


I own both the susvara and Tc and have owned all earlier iterations of the 1266 plus my source is pretty good lol


----------



## jlbrach

FWIIW thus far I have listened to numerous SS amps and nothing has been better to my ears than the formula s/powerman combo with my TC...with the susvara there are better but it is still excellent but with the abyss it is really outstanding


----------



## WafflesID

Chord ttoby vs formula s+powerman?

I like the idea of cheaper and multi-purpose and possibly a susvara in the future but can't find any direct comparisons.


----------



## Ciggavelli

So, I've been listening to some live albums off my TCs.  This live Nirvana album is pretty perfect


----------



## jlbrach

great album, although not much of a recording


----------



## jlbrach

the video is great also


----------



## cangle

On the topic of the Formula S and Powerman, I'm really happy with mine but there are other amps that I'd like to try at some point. Those include the Benchmark AHB2 with a tube pre perhaps, CFA3, and WA33 JPS edition (the one that Abyss sells). Also it sounds like I'm getting a Flux Volot again as an apology for mine failing within 24hours of use. So I'll have that hopefully in November to compare to the Formula S and Powerman.


----------



## briantrinh86 (Oct 7, 2021)

how about benchmark hp4? is it close to formula s + poweman. does anyone have both to compare?


----------



## DJJEZ

briantrinh86 said:


> how about benchmark hp4? is it close to formula s + poweman. does anyone have both to compare?


i used to own the HPA4 and much prefer the formula S and powerman. the price difference is big though.


----------



## DJJEZ

cangle said:


> On the topic of the Formula S and Powerman, I'm really happy with mine but there are other amps that I'd like to try at some point. Those include the Benchmark AHB2 with a tube pre perhaps, CFA3, and WA33 JPS edition (the one that Abyss sells). Also it sounds like I'm getting a Flux Volot again as an apology for mine failing within 24hours of use. So I'll have that hopefully in November to compare to the Formula S and Powerman.


same for me. want to try all the amps youve listed.


----------



## WafflesID

briantrinh86 said:


> how about benchmark hp4? is it close to formula s + poweman. does anyone have both to compare?


I see a lot of reviews saying the Topping A90 is ridiculously close to the hpa4. Really made me pump the brakes on that one.


----------



## deuter

WafflesID said:


> I see a lot of reviews saying the Topping A90 is ridiculously close to the hpa4. Really made me pump the brakes on that one.


I have heard nothing but good reviews about the Topping A90.


----------



## WafflesID

deuter said:


> I have heard nothing but good reviews about the Topping A90.


Exactly. Makes it hard to justify the hpa4


----------



## Womaz (Oct 8, 2021)

What is the consensus, if there is one, about the best DAC type to use with the 1266TC?
I have been reading a lot about various R2R DACs and they do seem to be gaining popularity and some of them getting a lot of good reviews


----------



## Sajid Amit

Womaz said:


> What is the consensus, if there is one, about the best DAC type to use with the 1266TC?
> I have been reading a lot about various R2R DACs and they do seem to be gaining popularity and some of them getting a lot of good reviews


No consensus, but different preferences. I prefer the Holo May with the TC.


----------



## mitchb

Good or bad my Directstream dac sounds good with any headphones and my main speaker system. I had the Perfectwave previously and it was decent.


----------



## vonBaron

Womaz said:


> What is the consensus, if there is one, about the best DAC type to use with the 1266TC?
> I have been reading a lot about various R2R DACs and they do seem to be gaining popularity and some of them getting a lot of good reviews


Holo May or Sonnet Morpheus.


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> Holo May or Sonnet Morpheus.


How would you compare the two sound signatures?


----------



## rangerid

ken6217 said:


> How would you compare the two sound signatures?


I owned both and it's not even close, May is superior in every way. May's priced at 5.5k but performance is more like 15k.


----------



## vonBaron

ken6217 said:


> How would you compare the two sound signatures?


NOS vs NOS they are very similar, May KTE have better soundstage, detali, resolution and holo but is not big difference.


----------



## vonBaron (Oct 8, 2021)

rangerid said:


> I owned both and it's not even close, May is superior in every way. May's priced at 5.5k but performance is more like 15k.


I do not agree, Morpheus after I2S is great. Without exaggeration, it sounds like a DAC for 15k ...
Tambaqui is better than May?


----------



## rangerid (Oct 8, 2021)

vonBaron said:


> I do not agree, Morpheus after I2S is great. Without exaggeration, it sounds like a DAC for 15k ...
> Tambaqui is better than May?


I can't comment on the I2S since I only ran it off USB but unless the I2S is light years ahead.... resolution of the Morpheus just wasn't there, but incidentally it's an amazing DAC for 1266 since it's already so resolving so I can agree on that, tamed and fleshed out the mids.

Tambaqui's an upgrade over the May for technicalities like detail, soundstage, speed, slam, etc, May's more relaxed with more warmth and musicality, all the stereotypical differences of R2R vs oversampling apply

I have a review comparing the Tambaqui against the May and Dave +MScaler cooking, maybe I will finally finish it sooner than later lol


----------



## vonBaron

But USB on Morpheus is crap! Even Cees admit that.
Tambaqui looks amazing on paper but price is not for me and Morpheus 2 is coming out!


----------



## ken6217

Yea, I saw that the say that USB input is not very good. They recommend AES//EBU or Spdif.


----------



## ken6217

Regards to the comparison of the May and Morpheus, resolution aside, are they both similar in terms of warmth and musicality? Those two qualities are paramount for me. I don’t like overly analytical, clinical, squeaky clean sound.


----------



## vonBaron

No they very similar they are both R2R DACs.


----------



## ken6217

Thanks.


----------



## deuter

There’s like a million good DACs.
A while back, almost 7 yrs ago I took my headphones and my amp to a dealer and did extensive testing with various DACs.
I had some pre contentions on what I would like and prefer and it was completely wrong. I preferred something and eventually bought it and that Dac was not even on my list to try but the store manager recommended I include it in the testing. My advise to all wanted to get a dac is to find a reputable store that stocks a few DACs. It’s a lot easier to do this then with headphone amps.


----------



## DJJEZ

WafflesID said:


> I see a lot of reviews saying the Topping A90 is ridiculously close to the hpa4. Really made me pump the brakes on that one.


I have one. It's absolutely amazing for the money. Honestly prefer it to the HPA4  🤷‍♂️  🤷‍♂️  🤷‍♂️


----------



## MatW

DJJEZ said:


> I have one. It's absolutely amazing for the money. Honestly prefer it to the HPA4  🤷‍♂️  🤷‍♂️  🤷‍♂️


I agree, it's very good, and great value. I bought a Ferrum OOR and Hypsos to upgrade the A90. Should have it soon. But it won't be six times as good, for sure.


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 8, 2021)

deuter said:


> There’s like a million good DACs.
> A while back, almost 7 yrs ago I took my headphones and my amp to a dealer and did extensive testing with various DACs.
> I had some pre contentions on what I would like and prefer and it was completely wrong. I preferred something and eventually bought it and that Dac was not even on my list to try but the store manager recommended I include it in the testing. My advise to all wanted to get a dac is to find a reputable store that stocks a few DACs. It’s a lot easier to do this then with headphone amps.



Smart man and I could't agree more... This is the only way to do it. If you can't demo in your home on your system, then bring your system to the dealers. I hauled my WA33, TCs, and XLRs around for the better part of a month demoing everything I could get my hands on. I was blown away at what I ended up liking and picking (Soulution 560 DAC). Turns out I'm a musicality, detail, bass, and accuracy wh0re. Who knew?!?


----------



## Ciggavelli

littlej0e said:


> Smart man and I could't agree more... This is the only way to do it. If you can't demo in your home on your system, then bring your system to the dealers. I hauled my WA33, TCs, and XLRs around for the better part of a month demoing everything I could get my hands on. I was blown away at what I ended up liking and picking (Soulution 560 DAC). Turns out I'm an musicality, detail, bass, and accuracy wh0re. Who knew?!?


Oh schitt, you got the Soulution 560?


----------



## leftside

But DACs don't matter?! What a load of c rap - and only said by those who haven't listened to different DACs.


----------



## Womaz

Womaz said:


> What is the consensus, if there is one, about the best DAC type to use with the 1266TC?
> I have been reading a lot about various R2R DACs and they do seem to be gaining popularity and some of them getting a lot of good reviews


It was me who originally raised this topic. It was more a general question as to maybe should I be looking at R2R ……I am unable to audition. My nearest HP shop is hundreds of miles away.
I may even go for another all in one solution


----------



## DJJEZ

MatW said:


> I agree, it's very good, and great value. I bought a Ferrum OOR and Hypsos to upgrade the A90. Should have it soon. But it won't be six times as good, for sure.


let us know what you think of it after you spent some time with it, specifically with the 1266TC/susvara


----------



## DJJEZ

littlej0e said:


> Smart man and I could't agree more... This is the only way to do it. If you can't demo in your home on your system, then bring your system to the dealers. I hauled my WA33, TCs, and XLRs around for the better part of a month demoing everything I could get my hands on. I was blown away at what I ended up liking and picking (Soulution 560 DAC). Turns out I'm a musicality, detail, bass, and accuracy wh0re. Who knew?!?


im guessing you compared it against a rossini and the rossini lost?


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 8, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> Oh schitt, you got the Soulution 560?


Indeed! Should be here in about two weeks! I was literally a day away from sending the funds for a Trinity Silver Reference DAC and my dealer friend reached out with an absolutely stupid deal on a demo Soulution 560. It ended up costing me just shy of 1/3rd of what a Trinity SR or CH Precision C1 would have and I just couldn't say no. He made me too greedy to oppose him 

I actually got to hear some the best stuff out there paired with the WA33 EE JPS and the TCs; MSB Select, DCS Vivaldi, etc. They were all fantastic without question, but I ended up preferring "transparent" sounding DACs instead. They are an absolute trip if you haven't heard one before. Instead of adding a custom flavor to the sound, they (try to) act as an empty conduit without imparting anything. They tend to make things sound more like you are in the room where the music was recorded, listening on the equipment it was recorded, instead of listening to it through a stereo system. Hopefully that makes sense. Honestly, it's really weird at first and takes a bit of getting used to. I should also warn you they will absolutely $hit on poorly recorded and mixed anything, similar to the TCs. Together the TCs and transparent DACs are truly "album wreckers" as they don't leave much for music to hide behind. Proceed with caution. To be clear, that's the main trade off for all the accuracy and transparency; it's bloody accurate and transparent. My personal favorites in this category were the Trinity Silver Reference (95% transparent) > CH Precision C1 (85%) > Soulution 760 (60%) > Soulution 560 (60%).

Signature wise, I preferred the transparent sounding DACs over everything but the MSB Select. That thing sounds like a friggin' summit-fi record player. But that price though...



DJJEZ said:


> im guessing you compared it against a rossini and the rossini lost?


All of the DCS DACs were excellent, including the Rossini w/clock, and even the Bartok...but they just weren't my taste. All the DCSs seemed to have a "house sound" all their own, but a touch too digital and processed sounding for my taste. You may feel differently though and they are all absolutely phenomenal DACs and certainly worth trying. I personally preferred the Soulution DACs to the DCSs in pretty much every way except for raw performance. The Soulutions sound incredibly accurate with a liberal sprinkling of transparency, while the DCSs sound really exciting, almost sparkly, with stupid levels of resolution, clarity, and impact. In other words, DCSs are like Lamborghinis; flashy and quick with the raw performance to suck your eyes into the back of your skull, while the Soulutions are like classic Porsches; still exotic and can probably go almost as fast as the lambos, but they beg you to slow down...put the top down...and enjoy the ride instead. Hopefully that makes sense.



leftside said:


> But DACs don't matter?! What a load of c rap.


Exactly! What kind of stupid nerds waste their money on that crap?!? Pft...


----------



## SuperBurrito (Oct 8, 2021)

Pics please once it arrives!


----------



## SuperBurrito

littlej0e said:


> Indeed! Should be here in about two weeks! I was literally a day away from sending the funds for a Trinity Silver Reference DAC and my dealer friend reached out with an absolutely stupid deal on a demo Soulution 560. It ended up costing me just shy of 1/3rd of what a Trinity SR or CH Precision C1 would have and I just couldn't say no. He made me too greedy to oppose him
> 
> I actually got to hear some the best stuff out there paired with the WA33 EE JPS and the TCs; MSB Select, DCS Vivaldi, etc. They were all fantastic without question, but I ended up preferring "transparent" sounding DACs instead. They are an absolute trip if you haven't heard one before. Instead of adding a custom flavor to the sound, they (try to) act as an empty conduit without imparting anything. They tend to make things sound more like you are in the room where the music was recorded, listening on the equipment it was recorded, instead of listening to it through a stereo system. Hopefully that makes sense. Honestly, it's really weird at first and takes a bit of getting used to. I should also warn you they will absolutely $hit on poorly recorded and mixed anything, similar to the TCs. Together the TCs and transparent DACs are truly "album wreckers" as they don't leave much for music to hide behind. Proceed with caution. To be clear, that's the main trade off for all the accuracy and transparency; it's bloody accurate and transparent. My personal favorites in this category were the Trinity Silver Reference (95% transparent) > CH Precision C1 (85%) > Soulution 760 (60%) > Soulution 560 (60%).
> 
> ...


Soulution 560, amazing!  Congrats man!


----------



## WafflesID

DJJEZ said:


> I have one. It's absolutely amazing for the money. Honestly prefer it to the HPA4  🤷‍♂️  🤷‍♂️  🤷‍♂️


as of right now I have an A90 as well, just barely plugged it in   I was so close to buying the HPA4 but grabbed the A90 in case i couldn't land a deal on a xiaudio stack or something else for the Phi TC I ordered.  Figured the A90 would at least work with the 1266 vs my THX789 and buy some time to make a decision.


----------



## MacedonianHero (Oct 8, 2021)

WafflesID said:


> Exactly. Makes it hard to justify the hpa4


Those reviews are due to the price point. That said, the HPA4 outclasses it completely, but then again considering the price difference...   But for a starter amp, it's hard to recommend anything above it as you have to go at least 2X the price difference to really get any true improvements.


----------



## WafflesID

MacedonianHero said:


> Those reviews are due to the price point. That said, the HPA4 outclasses it completely, but then again considering the price difference...   But for a starter amp, it's hard to recommend anything above it as you have to go at least 2X the price difference to really get any true improvements.


sure, but is it enough of a difference?  Which makes me wonder if the formula S + powerman should be the next step or just go to something else above that.  my thought process is that I could live with the A90 until I find a deal on an FS+P or chord ttoby.  but I can think myself into circles on this for months.  I should just save for the WA33 right?


----------



## MacedonianHero

WafflesID said:


> sure, but is it enough of a difference?  Which makes me wonder if the formula S + powerman should be the next step or just go to something else above that.  my thought process is that I could live with the A90 until I find a deal on an FS+P or chord ttoby.  but I can think myself into circles on this for months.  I should just save for the WA33 right?


For me yes, most definitely. But that call is up to each of us.


----------



## WafflesID

MacedonianHero said:


> For me yes, most definitely. But that call is up to each of us.


Wait for good deal on FS+P or wait even longer for another step up from there?


----------



## Ciggavelli

littlej0e said:


> Indeed! Should be here in about two weeks! I was literally a day away from sending the funds for a Trinity Silver Reference DAC and my dealer friend reached out with an absolutely stupid deal on a demo Soulution 560. It ended up costing me just shy of 1/3rd of what a Trinity SR or CH Precision C1 would have and I just couldn't say no. He made me too greedy to oppose him
> 
> I actually got to hear some the best stuff out there paired with the WA33 EE JPS and the TCs; MSB Select, DCS Vivaldi, etc. They were all fantastic without question, but I ended up preferring "transparent" sounding DACs instead. They are an absolute trip if you haven't heard one before. Instead of adding a custom flavor to the sound, they (try to) act as an empty conduit without imparting anything. They tend to make things sound more like you are in the room where the music was recorded, listening on the equipment it was recorded, instead of listening to it through a stereo system. Hopefully that makes sense. Honestly, it's really weird at first and takes a bit of getting used to. I should also warn you they will absolutely $hit on poorly recorded and mixed anything, similar to the TCs. Together the TCs and transparent DACs are truly "album wreckers" as they don't leave much for music to hide behind. Proceed with caution. To be clear, that's the main trade off for all the accuracy and transparency; it's bloody accurate and transparent. My personal favorites in this category were the Trinity Silver Reference (95% transparent) > CH Precision C1 (85%) > Soulution 760 (60%) > Soulution 560 (60%).
> 
> ...


Congrats man!  This is probably a long shot, but did you demo the DAVE and M-Scaler with the Sean Jacobs DC4s?  If so, how do they compare? 

I'm very envious of your new dac.  You're getting into the TOTL of the TOTL.


----------



## littlej0e

Ciggavelli said:


> Congrats man!  This is probably a long shot, but did you demo the DAVE and M-Scaler with the Sean Jacobs DC4s?  If so, how do they compare?
> 
> I'm very envious of your new dac.  You're getting into the TOTL of the TOTL.



Thanks, Cigg! To be clear, you are probably 75%’ish to thank (or to blame depending on your perspective) for all of my audio shenanigans! That’s my story and I’m sticking to it 

I demoed the Dave and M-Scaler together, but not with the SJs. Sorry! Performance and signature wise, the DCS DACs would likely be right up your alley. That is probably true for most wanting a very “high performance” and lively sound out of the gate or even a more traditional balanced sound matched with a good tube amp/preamp. But I assume the SJs launch that combo into the next stratosphere, so I’m not sure what the next comparable DCS model would be. The Rossini w/clock perhaps? How are you liking that SJ upgrade by the way? Is it everything you thought it would be?

TOTL friggin’ hurts…lol


----------



## Ciggavelli

littlej0e said:


> Thanks, Cigg! To be clear, you are probably 75%’ish to thank (or to blame depending on your perspective) for all of my audio shenanigans! That’s my story and I’m sticking to it
> 
> I demoed the Dave and M-Scaler together, but not with the SJs. Sorry! Performance and signature wise, the DCS DACs would likely be right up your alley. That is probably true for most wanting a very “high performance” and lively sound out of the gate or even a more traditional balanced sound matched with a good tube amp/preamp. But I assume the SJs launch that combo into the next stratosphere, so I’m not sure what the next comparable DCS model would be. The Rossini w/clock perhaps? How are you liking that SJ upgrade by the way? Is it everything you thought it would be?
> 
> TOTL friggin’ hurts…lol


Hahaha. I’m gonna look at that as a good thing 

The SJ upgrade is amazing. Lower noise floor, blacker, more dynamic, bass hits a bit harder, the soundstage is more open, and resolution is at crazy levels.

I was listening to some live albums with the TCs yesterday, and I thought to myself, I’m at end-game. I’ve never thought that before. 

The only thing I think is a weakness in my chain are my cables. My current cables are fine, but I feel they could be even better. We shall see.


----------



## littlej0e

Ciggavelli said:


> Hahaha. I’m gonna look at that as a good thing
> 
> The SJ upgrade is amazing. Lower noise floor, blacker, more dynamic, bass hits a bit harder, the soundstage is more open, and resolution is at crazy levels.
> 
> ...


That’s _awesome!_ I’m _so_ happy for you. It’s so hard to get to the point where you listen and say, “Yep, this is it. It’s pretty much everything I ever wanted and I’m done…” I guess those SJs really are worth it then! I wonder if they’ll start making them for other gear. 

I’ve been looking into some fancy clocking/re-clocking solutions, but much like you I’m going to pace myself and focus on cabling first


----------



## jlbrach

WafflesID said:


> Exactly. Makes it hard to justify the hpa4


I own the topping a90...do not use it with the abyss TC if you are serious about the TC


----------



## WafflesID

jlbrach said:


> I own the topping a90...do not use it with the abyss TC if you are serious about the TC


Not the goal, but a backup plan to buy time if needed.  Either use it as a preamp for a chord TToby with the TC or hope a formula s and powerman become available.


----------



## deuter

WafflesID said:


> Not the goal, but a backup plan to buy time if needed.  Either use it as a preamp for a chord TToby with the TC or hope a formula s and powerman become available.


Formula S and Powerman available?
Just save the dollars by avoiding parallel upgrades and buy from Abyss directly.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Oct 9, 2021)

Am not the first to say this, but the HE-1 is not unequivocally better than the TC. In fact, as many veteran TC owners know, it is still untouchable in lots of areas. Will post detailed impressions of the HE-1 and various other headphones on the Amplify thread, from our audiophile meetup in India.


----------



## deuter

Sajid Amit said:


> Am not the first to say this, but the HE-1 is not unequivocally better than the TC. In fact, as many veteran TC owners know, it is still untouchable in lots of areas. Will post detailed impressions of the HE-1 and various other headphones on the Amplify thread, from our audiophile meetup in India.


India ?
The He-1 found its way there.
I take it you are in India?
If so what do you do for a living to afford these toys.


----------



## Sajid Amit

deuter said:


> India ?
> The He-1 found its way there.
> I take it you are in India?
> If so what do you do for a living to afford these toys.


Dude, the rich in India are insanely rich. As is the case for most developing countries. 

I grew up in Bangladesh and the US and go to India occasionally for work and fun.

I am an academic and a CEO of an international organization. US-educated. Columbia, Dartmouth, etc.

But that’s beside the point. There are homegrown rich guys, richer than me, in India and Bangladesh, who have two-channel systems worth the size of GDP of small countries.

Its a brave new world. Lol. Just saying.

🙂


----------



## cangle

I just came across the LCD-5 trade in program posting on head-fi and sent an email to their support to hopefully exchange my 4z for the lcd-5. If all goes well I'm looking forward to see how they compare to the 1266.


----------



## BassicScience

Sajid Amit said:


> Am not the first to say this, but the HE-1 is not unequivocally better than the TC. In fact, as many veteran TC owners know, it is still untouchable in lots of areas. Will post detailed impressions of the HE-1 and various other headphones on the Amplify thread, from our audiophile meetup in India.


Let me guess: it didn't have the SLAM!


----------



## Sajid Amit

BassicScience said:


> Let me guess: it didn't have the SLAM!


Lol, not just. Its a lot more closed-sounding than the TC or SR1a. Narrow soundstage.

And yes, it doesn’t have the slam that good speakers give you! And the TC! And hopefully the LCD5, which is en route to me…


----------



## BassicScience

Sajid Amit said:


> Lol, not just. Its a lot more closed-sounding than the TC or SR1a. Narrow soundstage.
> 
> And yes, it doesn’t have the slam that good speakers give you! And the TC! And hopefully the LCD5, which is en route to me…


Yes, I remember being rather underwhelmed by the HE-1. At that price, expectations were through the roof for me, though. To be honest, the HFM Shang Junior was more to my liking, at least in part due to its expansive soundstage. That headphone appears to be in my near future, BTW, but I'm holding off a bit for logistical reasons. 

Am glad to hear you'll be getting the LCD-5, as you are someone whose input I value a lot. Cheers.


----------



## paradoxper

Sajid Amit said:


> Lol, not just. Its a lot more closed-sounding than the TC or SR1a. Narrow soundstage.
> 
> And yes, it doesn’t have the slam that good speakers give you! And the TC! And hopefully the LCD5, which is en route to me…


You'll need the SGL for comparative body with refinement. But you'll always be missing the dynamic and punch output of a TC.

HE 1 is so outrageously overpriced for what you could do with SGL and DIY T2. But it does offer a simple life. Not for audiophiles.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Sajid Amit said:


> Lol, not just. Its a lot more closed-sounding than the TC or SR1a. Narrow soundstage.
> 
> And yes, it doesn’t have the slam that good speakers give you! And the TC! And hopefully the LCD5, which is en route to me…



The narrow soundstage was that people reported was the one thing that pushed me to the SGL. Although, I fully believe that the HE-1 is extremely good and I'm sure the size of the soundstage probably also contributes to intimacy and midrange magic. Would love to hear it. But anyways, felt the same way with the SGL, definitely just better overall than the TC.. but they also should be at that price lol. 

And the TC's bass definitely still stands out as better than everything else. It just creates such an unrealistic expectation for all other headphones.


----------



## rangerid

BassicScience said:


> Yes, I remember being rather underwhelmed by the HE-1. At that price, expectations were through the roof for me, though. To be honest, the HFM Shang Junior was more to my liking, at least in part due to its expansive soundstage. That headphone appears to be in my near future, BTW, but I'm holding off a bit for logistical reasons.
> 
> Am glad to hear you'll be getting the LCD-5, as you are someone whose input I value a lot. Cheers.


Your set up prob sounds better. I heard the HE1 back in 2017 when I was not in the audiophile hobby and it wasn't enough to get me to come back, it was so underwhelming I literally remember nothing about it. Then I heard a pair of Focal Clears last year and decided it was time to return...


----------



## BassicScience

number1sixerfan said:


> The narrow soundstage was that people reported was the one thing that pushed me to the SGL. Although, I fully believe that the HE-1 is extremely good and I'm sure the size of the soundstage probably also contributes to intimacy and midrange magic. Would love to hear it. But anyways, felt the same way with the SGL, definitely just better overall than the TC.. but they also should be at that price lol.
> 
> And the TC's bass definitely still stands out as better than everything else. It just creates such an unrealistic expectation for all other headphones.


FYI, I believe the HE-1 is available for audition by appointment at the Sennheiser Store in SF. I may give it another listen at some point for reference.


----------



## number1sixerfan

BassicScience said:


> FYI, I believe the HE-1 is available for audition by appointment at the Sennheiser Store in SF. I may give it another listen at some point for reference.



Yea, I suspect for fair impressions, I'd probably need a lot more time or preferably side by side with my system. But I know that's likely not to happen. I may actually just go out there to give them a listen.


----------



## Sajid Amit

rangerid said:


> Your set up prob sounds better. I heard the HE1 back in 2017 when I was not in the audiophile hobby and it wasn't enough to get me to come back, it was so underwhelming I literally remember nothing about it. Then I heard a pair of Focal Clears last year and decided it was time to return...


Underwhelming for the price
Outrageously overpriced
Lovely, intimate midrange
Awesome bass for an estat
Poster-child for Harman tuning
Gorgeous to look at

All the above are true


----------



## WafflesID

deuter said:


> Formula S and Powerman available?
> Just save the dollars by avoiding parallel upgrades and buy from Abyss directly.


The A90 was $420 used and would still be useful as a preamp at some point. And I'm not totally convinced that the fs+p is a better choice than a chord TToby. Especially fs+p at full retail price. Especially if I decide to get a susvara later.


----------



## WafflesID

@Orlok Where did you find your XLR to banana plug cable?  I decided to go with the TToby for the Phi TC.


----------



## DJJEZ (Oct 9, 2021)

WafflesID said:


> @Orlok Where did you find your XLR to banana plug cable?  I decided to go with the TToby for the Phi TC.


I don't think he comes on here anymore. He said a while back hes into other hobbies now. His xlr to banana plug cable is from moon audio


----------



## Gadget67

WafflesID said:


> @Orlok Where did you find your XLR to banana plug cable?  I decided to go with the TToby for the Phi TC.


I happen to know he ordered from Moon Audio.  It won’t appear on their site; you will have to call and they will take care of you.


----------



## WafflesID

Gadget67 said:


> I happen to know he ordered from Moon Audio.  It won’t appear on their site; you will have to call and they will take care of you.


AH thats why. I was scouring their site for it.  It looked like a silver dragon. Thank you!!


----------



## tholt

WafflesID said:


> AH thats why. I was scouring their site for it.  It looked like a silver dragon. Thank you!!


FYI most any cable manufacturer can do this. I got one from Forza and another from a member in this forum. Pick your favorite cable maker and you can ask them to make you one.


----------



## Gadget67

WafflesID said:


> AH thats why. I was scouring their site for it.  It looked like a silver dragon. Thank you!!


Yes, it is a silver dragon.  Here is a picture shamelessly stolen from @Orlok.


----------



## ken6217

Sajid Amit said:


> Dude, the rich in India are insanely rich. As is the case for most developing countries.
> 
> I grew up in Bangladesh and the US and go to India occasionally for work and fun.
> 
> ...


I spent many a time in Bangladesh. I flew to Dhaka, and then transferred to Chittagong. I used to go four times a year for many years. I had a joint venture with an apparel factory in Chittagong.


----------



## lucasratmundo

WafflesID said:


> @Orlok Where did you find your XLR to banana plug cable?  I decided to go with the TToby for the Phi TC.


I've been using a Vykari adapter from Norne. It's great! There many other options though.


----------



## deuter

ken6217 said:


> I spent many a time in Bangladesh. I flew to Dhaka, and then transferred to Chittagong. I used to go four times a year for many years. I had a joint venture with an apparel factory in Chittagong.


They make the top quality cotton garments after obviously egyptian cotton.
I always check the label before buying basics, if made in Bangladesh then rest assured the garment will last.


----------



## deuter

A while back someone was enquiring about dac recommendation.
I can certainly recommend https://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=97
It’s a little hidden gem, not many are aware of this, couple of North American Audio forums do discuss it but it’s still fairly unknown.
I can certainly endorse it as a steal given its price. I have tried myriad number of DACs mostly in the 3-8K price range and the musical paradise certainly plays in that field. The cool part is it’s modular and future proof. Also lots of fun with tube rolling and changing the sonic signature.


----------



## You Kay

Is anybody using Audio GD HE9 with the Abyss 1266? I’m surprised this combination hasn’t been discussed on headfi


----------



## ufospls2

You Kay said:


> Is anybody using Audio GD HE9 with the Abyss 1266? I’m surprised this combination hasn’t been discussed on headfi



I used the Master 9 extensively with the Phi, not the TC. Its....good, not great. Certainly powerful enough.


----------



## Pashmeister (Oct 10, 2021)

deuter said:


> A while back someone was enquiring about dac recommendation.
> I can certainly recommend https://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=97
> It’s a little hidden gem, not many are aware of this, couple of North American Audio forums do discuss it but it’s still fairly unknown.
> I can certainly endorse it as a steal given its price. I have tried myriad number of DACs mostly in the 3-8K price range and the musical paradise certainly plays in that field. The cool part is it’s modular and future proof. Also lots of fun with tube rolling and changing the sonic signature.


I have tried their tube preamplifier which sounded very good and also sounded in the 3-8k range after some very easy tube and capacitor upgrades. I couldn’t keep it because it was just so big and bulky and I needed the space. But if u have the space, this brand indeed has gems.


----------



## You Kay (Oct 10, 2021)

ufospls2 said:


> I used the Master 9 extensively with the Phi, not the TC. Its....good, not great. Certainly powerful enough.


Thank you for that. I understand the HE9 is more dynamic than the Master 9. What would you regard as great for these headphones?


----------



## WafflesID

deuter said:


> A while back someone was enquiring about dac recommendation.
> I can certainly recommend https://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=97
> It’s a little hidden gem, not many are aware of this, couple of North American Audio forums do discuss it but it’s still fairly unknown.
> I can certainly endorse it as a steal given its price. I have tried myriad number of DACs mostly in the 3-8K price range and the musical paradise certainly plays in that field. The cool part is it’s modular and future proof. Also lots of fun with tube rolling and changing the sonic signature.


This DAC looks great for the price. New to the idea of tubes in the DAC. How much of a difference does it make having tubes in the DAC vs amp if you have a SS amp?


----------



## Jon L

WafflesID said:


> This DAC looks great for the price. New to the idea of tubes in the DAC. How much of a difference does it make having tubes in the DAC vs amp if you have a SS amp?


The $1000 price on the webpage quickly becomes $2000 after clicking on what I consider "must" upgrades and shipping.
Changing tubes will make large differences in sound character (with no guarantee any will be just perfect), and one interesting fact is 12.6V filament switch will accomodate E80CC tubes, which are interesting-sounding tubes.


----------



## simorag

Sunday playlist for an emotional rollercoaster ... live-sounding, bigger than life, energetic, even disturbing recordings, perfect for the 1266


----------



## rangerid (Oct 10, 2021)

I made a minute yet profound adjustment to the TC's tuning through pad positioning this weekend.

Had the Abyss for about 6 months and during that time I've primarily kept the pad seem aligned at 11 o'clock as suggested by Abyss. I tried other positions, such as 10, 1, even 6 o'clock for craps and gigs. I also played around with how/where the headphone sit on my head, the frame angle and what not but I tbh I felt the changes were insignificant and opted to keep it at the default 11 o'clock. They were not uncomfortable but I never got them to the level of 'floating' on your head. Yesterday, as I was listening to a new found favourite artist, Haliene, the midrange, vocals in particular, and soundstage really bugged me, like a lot more than usual. The midrange were never the strength of the 1266 and I always found the soundstage, while large in scale and out of head, had an uneven distribution across front where the NE and NW, or front left and front right were 'missing' and had 'gaps'. I am not sure why it was bugging me so much but it got to the point that I even started EQ'ing these, and this is coming from somebody that never EQs. These headphones either don't take well to EQ or I wasn't doing it right because nothing really worked.

Then I remembered tuning with pads and strangely, I never tried aligning the pads at noon. At every other position, the pads sit asymmetrically on the headphone but at 12 o'clock it's symmetrical straight across if that makes sense. Next thing I had to do was push the frame in because the pads were almost free floating and not in contact with any part of my face at this point. However, when it was done, the TCs were like a new pair of headphones, both in sound and fit.

For the first time ever, they were fitting as if 'floating' on my head, with the pads lightly touching my face in an even fashion. In every other position I tried, the widest part of the pad always clamped down harder than the other parts which were barely in contact and on my right side, I can literally fit 3 fingers in the gap behind my ear. Now there's no weird gaps and strange pressure in odd areas. The pads almost contour perfectly to my face. I hit play and I immediately noticed the gaps in the soundstage had completely disappeared - I am presented with an even and incredibly deep stage, deeper than I had ever heard the Abyss. Next, the nasally, boxy vocals I tolerated have almost completely subsided. Vocalists have a much more lifelike timbre and presence in the mix. Interestingly, the bass has also become better controlled and less 'boomy'. Overall, I feel the frequency response has shifted from a severe w/v-shape to closer to the 2018 Harman with the elevated bass response. I literally listening to songs on the TC like I've never heard before.

It's actually shocking how big of a difference such a small change, shifting pad position from 11 to 12 o'clock has done to the tuning. I feel now I am finally getting the max potential out of these bad boys. At the same time I wish the design of the headphone were such pad/frame changes were not so profound because I have a feeling a lot of people like me during the first 6 months, had not found the optimal position for their head.


----------



## paradoxper

rangerid said:


> I made a minute yet profound adjustment to the TC's tuning through pad positioning this weekend.
> 
> Had the Abyss for about 6 months and during that time I've primarily kept the pad seem aligned at 11 o'clock as suggested by Abyss. I tried other positions, such as 10, 1, even 6 o'clock for craps and gigs. I also played around with how/where the headphone sit on my head, the frame angle and what not but I tbh I felt the changes were insignificant and opted to keep it at the default 11 o'clock. They were not uncomfortable but I never got them to the level of 'floating' on your head. Yesterday, as I was listening to a new found favourite artist, Haliene, the midrange, vocals in particular, and soundstage really bugged me, like a lot more than usual. The midrange were never the strength of the 1266 and I always found the soundstage, while large in scale and out of head, had an uneven distribution across front where the NE and NW, or front left and front right were 'missing' and had 'gaps'. I am not sure why it was bugging me so much but it got to the point that I even started EQ'ing these, and this is coming from somebody that never EQs. These headphones either don't take well to EQ or I wasn't doing it right because nothing really worked.
> 
> ...


I don't know if there is really an optimal, just optionals. 

Glad you found your joy spot.


----------



## genefruit

rangerid said:


> I made a minute yet profound adjustment to the TC's tuning through pad positioning this weekend.
> 
> Had the Abyss for about 6 months and during that time I've primarily kept the pad seem aligned at 11 o'clock as suggested by Abyss. I tried other positions, such as 10, 1, even 6 o'clock for craps and gigs. I also played around with how/where the headphone sit on my head, the frame angle and what not but I tbh I felt the changes were insignificant and opted to keep it at the default 11 o'clock. They were not uncomfortable but I never got them to the level of 'floating' on your head. Yesterday, as I was listening to a new found favourite artist, Haliene, the midrange, vocals in particular, and soundstage really bugged me, like a lot more than usual. The midrange were never the strength of the 1266 and I always found the soundstage, while large in scale and out of head, had an uneven distribution across front where the NE and NW, or front left and front right were 'missing' and had 'gaps'. I am not sure why it was bugging me so much but it got to the point that I even started EQ'ing these, and this is coming from somebody that never EQs. These headphones either don't take well to EQ or I wasn't doing it right because nothing really worked.
> 
> ...


I'm trying to follow along at home but the only way I can recreate the description of the pads touching effect you describe is to place them in what I've called 6 o'clock.  That meaning, the seam of the pad is pointing downward, located at the 6 o'clock position.  When I place them at 12, the wide part of the pads are at the very bottom and make the biggest seal.  Please advise


----------



## Womaz

Yeah I think sometimes its good to hear a different kind of sound from our equipment, maybe the TCs are the headphones that will get some of you to trim your collections    
Ok lets not go that far....but they do sound so so different with all of the pad and cup positioning options.


----------



## paradoxper

Womaz said:


> Yeah I think sometimes its good to hear a different kind of sound from our equipment, maybe the TCs are the headphones that will get some of you to trim your collections
> Ok lets not go that far....but they do sound so so different with all of the pad and cup positioning options.


How long have you been around these parts?

There is always something newer, bettar, more shiny to lust after.


----------



## rangerid (Oct 10, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> I don't know if there is really an optimal, just optionals.
> 
> Glad you found your joy spot.



Totally, each spot has a different tuning and we each have our preferences



genefruit said:


> I'm trying to follow along at home but the only way I can recreate the description of the pads touching effect you describe is to place them in what I've called 6 o'clock.  That meaning, the seam of the pad is pointing downward, located at the 6 o'clock position.  When I place them at 12, the wide part of the pads are at the very bottom and make the biggest seal.  Please advise



That's the tricky part since our faces are all different. I think for you it would be 6 o'clock. It should be at a position such that no part of the pad is applying more pressure than others and the pads are perfectly contoured to your face, no seal


----------



## genefruit

rangerid said:


> Totally, each spot has a different tuning and we each have our preferences
> 
> 
> 
> That's the tricky part since our faces are all different. I think for you it would be 6 o'clock. It should be at a position such that no part of the pad is applying more pressure than others and the pads are perfectly contoured to your face.


Thanks for the further explanation.  For me, that feeling is at 11 (right) and 1 (left).  For me, at 12 there's pressure on the lower jaw and at 6 there's a huge gap at the bottom.  Experimenting with them, as expressed by others along the way, is the best way to find the sweet spot.


----------



## ufospls2 (Oct 10, 2021)

You Kay said:


> Thank you for that. I understand the HE9 is more dynamic than the Master 9. What would you regard as great for these headphones?



Depends on budget. Wells Audio amps work very well with the Abyss, the milo is warmer and musical, the Headtrip a bit more neutral, but still warm and musical.

Supposedly the XI Audio Stack is great, but I haven't personally heard it.

Simaudio Moon 430HA(d) is great, 600i supposedly builds on that, haven't heard it with the Abyss only speakers.

Boulder 866 is the best I've personally heard with them (there are always other sound signatures and other "better" options I just haven't heard them personally,) and I'm curious about the 812 which will be released soon.

The FluxLab FA-10 supposedly is a good cheaper option, but again, have not personally heard it.

iFi Pro iCAN is good too so I would assume the newly released signature is also good, very tweakable and has enough power. The Diablo is good for a transportable option.


----------



## deuter

WafflesID said:


> This DAC looks great for the price. New to the idea of tubes in the DAC. How much of a difference does it make having tubes in the DAC vs amp if you have a SS amp?


This is my second tube DAC, I used to have a Lampizator Level 7 a while back.
Think of it like a single ended tube preamp at the analog stage of the dac.
You get all the benefits of the tubes- holographic image etc. 
You do not loose on any slam and speed, at least that’s been my experience.
I currently use the Gold Lion 12au7 in the dac.


----------



## DJJEZ

I like my pads at 3pm and 9pm personally 🤷‍♂️  Gives the most amount of bass.


----------



## mitchb

DJJEZ said:


> I like my pads at 3pm and 9pm personally 🤷‍♂️  Gives the most amount of bass.


I agree


----------



## dukeskd

Used to like it at 3pm and 9pm however, the bass is too overwhelming and bloats up the frequency spectrum especially when there is a lot of impact. 

1pm and 11am for me at this stage.

What's great is that we can adjust based on our moods!


----------



## jlbrach

DJJEZ said:


> I like my pads at 3pm and 9pm personally 🤷‍♂️  Gives the most amount of bass.


I ised to be at 11 and 1 , I am now at 3 and 9 and find it surprisingly better


----------



## DJJEZ

jlbrach said:


> I ised to be at 11 and 1 , I am now at 3 and 9 and find it surprisingly better


Same for me. Used to be at 11 and 1 then changed to 3 and 9


----------



## MatW

And I recently changed from 3 and 9 to 1 and 11. And from toe in to toe out.


----------



## Pashmeister

DJJEZ said:


> Same for me. Used to be at 11 and 1 then changed to 3 and 9


Ditto, 3 & 9 👌🏻


----------



## deuter

dukeskd said:


> Used to like it at 3pm and 9pm however, the bass is too overwhelming and bloats up the frequency spectrum especially when there is a lot of impact.
> 
> 1pm and 11am for me at this stage.
> 
> What's great is that we can adjust based on our moods!


I cannot tell much difference, between 3 and 1.
If anything the bass is more Cicero’s energy at 1 and the miss are a tad recessed.


----------



## Womaz

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that maybe a weakness of the TCs was vocals. Really??

Listen to the title track of James Blake - Friends that Break Your Heart. I mean I can feel every emotion in that song. Sounds bloody amazing to me   

Has anyone used the Violectric DHA590 to drive their TCs. I think its top of my list to replace my current amp.


----------



## vonBaron

V590 is very nice with 1266 TC but have medicore DAC built in.


----------



## Womaz

vonBaron said:


> V590 is very nice with 1266 TC but have medicore DAC built in.


So maybe go with the non DAC version of this amp and get a better DAC with it?
Would love the Nimbus but its probably out of my range with an additional DAC needed. The one box solution does appeal to me though as I am a simple soul


----------



## vonBaron

Yes! Go buy V550 and some good DAC.


----------



## Pashmeister

Womaz said:


> I vaguely remember reading somewhere that maybe a weakness of the TCs was vocals. Really??
> 
> Listen to the title track of James Blake - Friends that Break Your Heart. I mean I can feel every emotion in that song. Sounds bloody amazing to me
> 
> Has anyone used the Violectric DHA590 to drive their TCs. I think its top of my list to replace my current amp.


Love me some neo-soul with the TC. Some Jill Scott and D'Angelo sexily crooning over some of that R&B bass. TC really gives it to you. 

I really love me some James Blake and the likes too (Jamie Woon, Ry X, Facesoul, Moses Sumney's collab with Cinematic Orchestra, etc) -- some good vocals with some tasty bass through the TC.


----------



## ufospls2

Hey guys, I've just posted my 866 review on my blog, and I used the TC's extensively with it in testing. Thought some may find it interesting

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-susvara.853031/page-784#post-16608795


----------



## paradoxper

Pashmeister said:


> Love me some neo-soul with the TC. Some Jill Scott and D'Angelo sexily crooning over some of that R&B bass. TC really gives it to you.
> 
> I really love me some James Blake and the likes too (Jamie Woon, Ry X, Facesoul, Moses Sumney's collab with Cinematic Orchestra, etc) -- some good vocals with some tasty bass through the TC.


Ok. Every now and again, I am coaxed out of the troglodyte dwellings of metaldom, please save your strings, your boring classical snoozes me.
However, I can get behind some soul, some funk, some good rhythm and bass.

A little simple, highly grooved and enjoyable. Thanks for the reference.

Dug.


----------



## Pashmeister (Oct 13, 2021)

I try to keep my headphone count to a max of 2, and that’s already occupied by the Susvara and TC. Getting a new set means I’ll need to sell off one of them first. But I want an easy to drive closed-back for the commute/ office / walking / cafe. So I will just get an IEM to circumvent this personal headphone embargo.

TC friends who also use IEM, what is your one favorite IEM? Something that might take a comparable Abyss experience but in IEM form, though my expectations are tempered because of course I cannot compare any IEM to the TC. I am also not holding off to wait for the Abyss IEM. I thought to ask this thread as I figure you’d have somewhat similar standards or tastes in audio. Thank you!


----------



## MatW (Oct 13, 2021)

Pashmeister said:


> I try to keep my headphone count to a max of 2, and that’s already occupied by the Susvara and TC. Getting a new set means I’ll need to sell off one of them first. But I want an easy to drive closed-back for the commute/ office / walking / cafe. So I will just get an IEM to circumvent this personal headphone embargo.
> 
> TC friends who also use IEM, what is your one favorite IEM? Something that might take a comparable Abyss experience but in IEM form, though my expectations are tempered because of course I cannot compare any IEM to the TC. I am also not holding off to wait for the Abyss IEM. I thought to ask this thread as I figure you’d have somewhat similar standards or tastes in audio. Thank you!


If by an Abyss experience you mean bass heavy, detailed and great soundstage, my suggestion would be the MMR Thummim.






EDIT: the Thummim is warm/darkish. I just switched to the Mest 2, also great, more affordable and considerably brighter. Depends on your preferred sound signature, there is so much to choose from in the IEM world.


----------



## normie610

Pashmeister said:


> I try to keep my headphone count to a max of 2, and that’s already occupied by the Susvara and TC. Getting a new set means I’ll need to sell off one of them first. But I want an easy to drive closed-back for the commute/ office / walking / cafe. So I will just get an IEM to circumvent this personal headphone embargo.
> 
> TC friends who also use IEM, what is your one favorite IEM? Something that might take a comparable Abyss experience but in IEM form, though my expectations are tempered because of course I cannot compare any IEM to the TC. I am also not holding off to wait for the Abyss IEM. I thought to ask this thread as I figure you’d have somewhat similar standards or tastes in audio. Thank you!


EE Legend EVO perhaps?


----------



## sahmen

Pashmeister said:


> I try to keep my headphone count to a max of 2, and that’s already occupied by the Susvara and TC. Getting a new set means I’ll need to sell off one of them first. But I want an easy to drive closed-back for the commute/ office / walking / cafe. So I will just get an IEM to circumvent this personal headphone embargo.
> 
> TC friends who also use IEM, what is your one favorite IEM? Something that might take a comparable Abyss experience but in IEM form, though my expectations are tempered because of course I cannot compare any IEM to the TC. I am also not holding off to wait for the Abyss IEM. I thought to ask this thread as I figure you’d have somewhat similar standards or tastes in audio. Thank you!



I do not have a lot of experience with IEMs so I cannot say much about how these compare with other flagships in the hobby, but I do use the Audeze LCDi4s and they do quite a great job not merely in sounding like full-blown (non-iem) open back headphones, but also in bringing the listener very close to the LCD-4's sound  and its legendary bass response.  I'd say they at least merit an audition if you can find a pair.

Easily the best--and the best bass on an IEM--that I have heard, although I do not have a wide range of experiences with IEMs, as I have mentioned


----------



## deuter

sahmen said:


> I do not have a lot of experience with IEMs so I cannot say much about how these compare with other flagships in the hobby, but I do use the Audeze LCDi4s and they do quite a great job not merely in sounding like full-blown (non-iem) open back headphones, but also in bringing the listener very close to the LCD-4's sound  and its legendary bass response.  I'd say they at least merit an audition if you can find a pair.
> 
> Easily the best--and the best bass on an IEM--that I have heard, although I do not have a wide range of experiences with IEMs, as I have mentioned


They look quite big in public though, I saw someone with them and it wasn’t pretty to say the least.
I personally use the Grado GT220 and they do excellent bass , very good soundstage and crisp treble.
Also plays fairly loud compared to most true wireless and battery can last you over a month.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Oct 13, 2021)

Pashmeister said:


> I try to keep my headphone count to a max of 2, and that’s already occupied by the Susvara and TC. Getting a new set means I’ll need to sell off one of them first. But I want an easy to drive closed-back for the commute/ office / walking / cafe. So I will just get an IEM to circumvent this personal headphone embargo.
> 
> TC friends who also use IEM, what is your one favorite IEM? Something that might take a comparable Abyss experience but in IEM form, though my expectations are tempered because of course I cannot compare any IEM to the TC. I am also not holding off to wait for the Abyss IEM. I thought to ask this thread as I figure you’d have somewhat similar standards or tastes in audio. Thank you!


The EE Odin and potentially the Evo are probably closest. The Stellia is a nice closed back with decent isolation as well.

However, a word of warning - I got my IEM for the same purpose - commute etc.. I ended up using noise cancellation headphones (Sony blablaX4) and find them perfect for that. The noise can be overwhelming which takes out the fun of the music, this goes for both IEM and closed back btw.


----------



## Womaz

Again I would love some guidance but do not want to hijack this thread

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/amp-dac-one-box-solution-or-separates.960140/#post-16609525

Oh by the way the 1266TCs continue to blow me away. I just cant believe how much time I spend listening to them, it is like an addiction at present. The old cliche ........hearings things I have never heard.....yeah its a cliche but its so bloody true


----------



## normie610

sahmen said:


> I do not have a lot of experience with IEMs so I cannot say much about how these compare with other flagships in the hobby, but I do use the Audeze LCDi4s and they do quite a great job not merely in sounding like full-blown (non-iem) open back headphones, but also in bringing the listener very close to the LCD-4's sound  and its legendary bass response.  I'd say they at least merit an audition if you can find a pair.
> 
> Easily the best--and the best bass on an IEM--that I have heard, although I do not have a wide range of experiences with IEMs, as I have mentioned


+1, my top IEM for quite a while until IE900 comes along. But this a topic for another thread.


----------



## Pashmeister

Thanks for the iem suggestions; I hope to be able to audition most of them!

For ANC I am quite happy with the air pods pro already. I think I’m more concerned about enjoying music while beside the pool, quiet evening walks, in the office (where 80% are working from home at a time, so very quiet), another part of the house far from my rig, etc. Sorry to bring up an iem discussion in the 1266 thread! But I don’t want to ask a general forum because I trust the ears in this room more, lol.

Cheers 🍻


----------



## MasterZen

Campfire Audio Solaris, V shape, fun sounding, thunderous bass, easily attainable on the used market. EE legend X might be alternative too but not heard it.


----------



## iFi audio (Oct 13, 2021)

ufospls2 said:


> iFi Pro iCAN is good too so I would assume the newly released signature is also good, very tweakable and has enough power. The Diablo is good for a transportable option.



Yes, Pro iDSD was designed as a more refined version of the original platform. At its core it's the same product as its predecessor, but tuned to sound noticeably better all in all.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

iFi audio said:


> Yes, Pro iDSD was designed as a more refined version of the original platform. At its core it's the same product as its predecessor, but tuned to sound noticeably better all in all.


Could you please elaborate a bit more about the sound changes for Pro iDSD owners of the old model, like me . Thanks


----------



## iFi audio

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Could you please elaborate a bit more about the sound changes for Pro iDSD owners of the old model, like me . Thanks



In short, you'd get blacker background behind voices and instruments, more air, finer colors and a touch improved overall authority. Internally we say that Pro IDSD sounds noticeably more adult


----------



## paradoxper

You know how Daft Punk display all headphones' excellence, well, show me bass excellence, bass absurd-ence please.

This was startling.


----------



## DJJEZ

paradoxper said:


> You know how Daft Punk display all headphones' excellence, well, show me bass excellence, bass absurd-ence please.
> 
> This was startling.



Great movie and great soundtrack


----------



## ra990

paradoxper said:


> You know how Daft Punk display all headphones' excellence, well, show me bass excellence, bass absurd-ence please.
> 
> This was startling.



Credit to @newworld666 for introducing us to this track over on the DCA Stealth thread. It's a great track to see where your amp runs out of juice. The bass should not distort, it's clean.


----------



## Pashmeister

paradoxper said:


> You know how Daft Punk display all headphones' excellence, well, show me bass excellence, bass absurd-ence please.
> 
> This was startling.



yeah this is nice cup of thick hot chocolate bass


----------



## deuter

Pashmeister said:


> yeah this is nice cup of thick hot chocolate bass


That’s just brutal, you cannot do this without telling us your preferred hot chocolate brand.


----------



## Pashmeister (Oct 15, 2021)

deuter said:


> That’s just brutal, you cannot do this without telling us your preferred hot chocolate brand.


Ooh I don’t have a favorite brand. My favorite is made from non-branded cacao beans, fresh from my Southeast Asia hometown farm. I taste this in my mouth when I hear good quality deep bass 🤤


----------



## GenEricOne (Oct 15, 2021)

My 1266 Phi TC was delivered earlier this week and I am incredibly impressed by them. This is my first experience with TOTL headphones and I'm blown away at how much it improves over other really good headphones I've owned (HEDDphone, Aeon 2 Noire, Ananda, Elex, HD8XX, HD700).

I think the thing that surprised me the most was that it's better than just about all the individual strengths of my existing headphones. I didn't think it was possible for a single headphone to combine *everything*.


Low-end dynamics/bass slam are better than the Elex.
Low-end detail and texture are on another planet from my collection and unlike anything I've heard, especially combined with the slam. And without sounding weirdly artificial like the Dekoni Blue is at times.
Mid/high dynamics and resolution are better than the HEDDphone (which is a shock, I didn't think there was much headroom above that)
Soundstaging is way more open, layered, and exposing than the Ananda or HD8XX (which I was not impressed with and returned)...even better than the memory I have of my falling apart HD700.
I've been chasing the dragon of my memory of the HD700 and was wondering if my memory was flawed as no other headphone in my collection ever came close to the soundstage of the HD700. Then the TC exceeded my memory of the HD700. This was the single biggest delight and surprise of the TC.

Imaging is great, though I admit I don't listen to a lot of music that benefits from spectacular imaging.
I have HD800S on order, intended to be gaming headphones, but I might just stick with the TC for that, too

I love bass (especially the sub-bass) and the bass on the TC is so great I turned my Lokius off and just leave it off now. Usually I leave the sub-bass knob turned up (almost) all the way with every other headphone just to make sure that itch is scratched. This doesn't have the most bass, but the quality of it more than makes up for a few dB difference.
Even with all the macrodynamics and detail, there's no fatigue, inline with the Ananda (without the Ananda's overall laid back approach).
Overall the frequency response is great, though I might prefer the Noires a tiny bit here.
All of technical checkboxes are checked while still sounding so lifelike.

My HEDDphones are out to repair a headband, but switching back to any of the other headphones I have around to compare is a significant downgrade. Kind of dismayed about it, like regret purchasing the other headphones almost. Though there's no way I would purchase a $5k headphone without first experiencing all the steps to get to this point.

The gaps between the TC and my $700-$1800 headphones are bigger than the gaps between my $700-$1800 headphones and the $150-$200 end of my collection, which was really unexpected.

The TC are also the most revealing for my amps. So far I've just used my Phonitor XE and Lyr 3. Both drive the TC well, but I can hear more differences between them than I could with any other headphone. Considering the Formula S as my next gear upgrade, or an upgrade on my DAC over the Bifrost 2. I like both the Phonitor XE and the Bifrost 2, so I'm not sure which will be next to be upgraded.

The lack of clamp is novel, usually I like a lot of clamp, but I can't argue with the results. However, I find taking the TC on and off is a bit uncomfortable as I can't pull it away from my head due to the stiffness. Instead, I have to take it off 'through' my ears and they get folded/twisted in various uncomfortable ways. I wish this process were more comfortable to just throw on for a minute to listen to a video on Twitter or something like that.

No issue with my usual hotspot on the top of my head, great job with the head band.

The cable is silly and I'm glad other companies don't make their cables join at the termination. It's a minor thing, but I am not in the habit of adjusting both cable runs when I need to adjust them. Maybe I get used to this over time.

My wife said I looked funny wearing them. Worth it.


----------



## ufospls2

GenEricOne said:


> My 1266 Phi TC was delivered earlier this week and I am incredibly impressed by them. This is my first experience with TOTL headphones and I'm blown away at how much it improves over other really good headphones I've owned (HEDDphone, Aeon 2 Noire, Ananda, Elex, HD8XX, HD700).
> 
> I think the thing that surprised me the most was that it's better than just about all the individual strengths of my existing headphones. I didn't think it was possible for a single headphone to combine *everything*.
> 
> ...



sounds like you "get" the 1266, as others here do : )


----------



## deuter

GenEricOne said:


> My 1266 Phi TC was delivered earlier this week and I am incredibly impressed by them. This is my first experience with TOTL headphones and I'm blown away at how much it improves over other really good headphones I've owned (HEDDphone, Aeon 2 Noire, Ananda, Elex, HD8XX, HD700).
> 
> I think the thing that surprised me the most was that it's better than just about all the individual strengths of my existing headphones. I didn't think it was possible for a single headphone to combine *everything*.
> 
> ...


Nice review, my observations do reflect with your findings.
The first time I heard them I thought I need to get these, it took me almost 2 years to get them after I strayed down the Stax and Blue Hawaii way in the middle. Sold all of that and don't think the AB-1266 is going anywhere in a hurry.
The rest of the manufactures have a fair bit to do to catchup.


----------



## tholt

ra990 said:


> Credit to @newworld666 for introducing us to this track over on the DCA Stealth thread. It's a great track to see where your amp runs out of juice. The bass should not distort, it's clean.


Not hearing any distortion. What part would be distorting?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

GenEricOne said:


> My 1266 Phi TC was delivered earlier this week and I am incredibly impressed by them. This is my first experience with TOTL headphones and I'm blown away at how much it improves over other really good headphones I've owned (HEDDphone, Aeon 2 Noire, Ananda, Elex, HD8XX, HD700).
> 
> I think the thing that surprised me the most was that it's better than just about all the individual strengths of my existing headphones. I didn't think it was possible for a single headphone to combine *everything*.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the club. The tc will become more comfy over time, it took me a while but bend and extend the frame so it’s not touching your ears when removing, it seems it is still too tight. And the tc is THE BEST for gaming, period. The visceral impact makes all the difference here.


----------



## DJJEZ

I game with my 1266TC as well and they are insanely good


----------



## leftside

I had a new custom amp arrive yesterday. It pairs very nicely with the Abyss. There are 4 output impedance selectors on the front of the amp. Three switches on the rear to switch between 6J5/6SN7 driver tubes, 30mA/60mA for bias of power tubes and CCS/RES to switch between a CCS circuit and one with resistors. Definitely has good power for those power hungry Abyss.










More details here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1101-audio-custom-crafted-headphone-amps.919425/page-55


----------



## Jon L

leftside said:


> There are 4 output impedance selectors on the front of the amp.



One EL34 tube per channel single-ended(?)  What's the power output into those 4 impedances?


----------



## leftside

Jon L said:


> One EL34 tube per channel single-ended(?)  What's the power output into those 4 impedances?


Yes EL34 single-ended. Amp can also take KT63, KT66, KT77, KT88, EL35, EL37, 6L6, etc and various tubes with adapters such as EL11, EL3N, 4654, 4689, EL51, etc.

I've asked @A2029 for the power output specs and other specs as I can't remember them off hand.


----------



## deuter

leftside said:


> I had a new custom amp arrive yesterday. It pairs very nicely with the Abyss. There are 4 output impedance selectors on the front of the amp. Three switches on the rear to switch between 6J5/6SN7 driver tubes, 30mA/60mA for bias of power tubes and CCS/RES to switch between a CCS circuit and one with resistors. Definitely has good power for those power hungry Abyss.
> 
> 
> 
> More details here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1101-audio-custom-crafted-headphone-amps.919425/page-55


Get a better table, such classic geat on glass shelves?
Also do you have a stereo setup? If not please try and listen to one through your chain else your wasting the capability of that Lampizator on just headphones.


----------



## leftside

deuter said:


> Get a better table, such classic geat on glass shelves?
> Also do you have a stereo setup? If not please try and listen to one through your chain else your wasting the capability of that Lampizator on just headphones.


This is the living room, and as such I share it with other family members, so their opinion also counts and they like the current shelving. Yes there is a stereo system in that room. I do agree that just using that DAC with headphones would be close to sacrilege.

But, my main system is upstairs in a dedicated music room where I also have another Lampizator DAC. There I am free to do what I want and have different custom audio furniture.


----------



## deuter

I used to have a level 7, it’s was clearly the biggest sonic upgrade in my system at the time but when I got decent vinyl gear I found myself listening to vinyl all the time  and decided to sell the Lampizator still miss it sometimes.


----------



## deuter

Wonder how the Lampizator compares these days to your Chords, Bartok’s and Mola Mola’s


----------



## leftside

deuter said:


> I used to have a level 7, it’s was clearly the biggest sonic upgrade in my system at the time but when I got decent vinyl gear I found myself listening to vinyl all the time  and decided to sell the Lampizator still miss it sometimes.


I too am a fan of vinyl. If you would have asked me a few years ago I would have said digital is only for "on the go" listening. How things have changed. The Level 7 is a super nice DAC. Lampizator released a new "engine53" a few years ago in the Pacific, and then started adding it to their lower end models. This is when I purchased the Atlantic TRP. It gives my VPI Prime Signature + Benz Micro LPS a run for it's money, but yes on a good recording, and a clean piece of vinyl, I do still prefer vinyl.

Might be worth checking out the L7 Mk2 with engine53  
https://www.lampizatorpoland.com/big-7-dac


----------



## Nicolas Yance

leftside said:


> I too am a fan of vinyl. If you would have asked me a few years ago I would have said digital is only for "on the go" listening. How things have changed. The Level 7 is a super nice DAC. Lampizator released a new "engine53" a few years ago in the Pacific, and then started adding it to their lower end models. This is when I purchased the Atlantic TRP. It gives my VPI Prime Signature + Benz Micro LPS a run for it's money, but yes on a good recording, and a clean piece of vinyl, I do still prefer vinyl.
> 
> Might be worth checking out the L7 Mk2 with engine53
> https://www.lampizatorpoland.com/big-7-dac


Is the new engine worth it in lower end models? I'm debating going for an Amber 3 or getting a second hand Atlantic 1. They both match my budget.


----------



## leftside

Nicolas Yance said:


> Is the new engine worth it in lower end models? I'm debating going for an Amber 3 or getting a second hand Atlantic 1. They both match my budget.


Very good question. You are not the only one to ask that. In my photo from above that is the original GA Atlantic 1 with R2R. I did quite the extensive back-to-back testing against the TRP when it arrived (had both plugged in at the same time so could A/B test easily). I then listened to the TRP only for 2 weeks before listening to the original Atlantic again (in the same system). I still like the original Atlantic (obviously as I still have it), but I do prefer the newer TRP. My recommendation would be to go with the Amber 3. Some are saying this model is too good as an entry level model. I think there is a thread on here for the Amber?


----------



## Nicolas Yance

leftside said:


> Very good question. You are not the only one to ask that. In my photo from above that is the original GA Atlantic 1 with R2R. I did quite the extensive back-to-back testing against the TRP when it arrived (had both plugged in at the same time so could A/B test easily). I then listened to the TRP only for 2 weeks before listening to the original Atlantic again (in the same system). I still like the original Atlantic (obviously as I still have it), but I do prefer the newer TRP. My recommendation would be to go with the Amber 3. Some are saying this model is too good as an entry level model. I think there is a thread on here for the Amber?


Thank you for the answer. Yes there is an Amber 3 thread in head fi.


----------



## A2029

Jon L said:


> One EL34 tube per channel single-ended(?)  What's the power output into those 4 impedances?





leftside said:


> Yes EL34 single-ended. Amp can also take KT63, KT66, KT77, KT88, EL35, EL37, 6L6, etc and various tubes with adapters such as EL11, EL3N, 4654, 4689, EL51, etc.
> 
> I've asked @A2029 for the power output specs and other specs as I can't remember them off hand.



Power output is approximately 3 watts for this amp.


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 16, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> I game with my 1266TC as well and they are insanely good


Man after my own heart! I actually liked the TCs better than the SR1as for this. The SR1as gave me a better "3D sound field" which was extremely cool, but I found the TCs to be more accurate for first person shooters (CSGO)...especially for height. User error maybe?


----------



## Polygonhell

leftside said:


> My recommendation would be to go with the Amber 3.


It’s a great DAC at the cost, a friend of mine though claims that the Baltic is the current sweet spot in the Lampizator range, it’s the one DAC in the current range I have not heard. But it all depends what you are looking to spend.
I owned an Amber 3 for a while, it excels at the same thing the other lampizators do, it’s a neutral presentation with excellent timbre, good tonal weight, projecting a very natural stage, with a hint of midrange warmth. 
There are more resolving DAC’s at the price point, but that doesn’t make them necessarily “better”, a lot depends on what you value.
I recently picked up a Dave, and I’m currently looking to sell it, it was replaced with a higher end Lampizator, I really do love their DAC’s.


----------



## ufospls2 (Oct 16, 2021)

Hey guys, I'll copy the review below, but if you prefer to view it on my blog, here is my TC review

https://headphonesnstuff.blog/2021/10/16/abyss-headphones-ab1266-phi-tc-full-review/







Side on

Hi All,

A fellow poster on Head-Fi pointed out that I hadn’t posted a review of my Abyss Headphones AB1266 Phi TC. I hadn’t realized, as I have written reviews of the original 1266, and the Phi version. However, both those reviews were written before starting this blog, so I thought why not do a review of my current pair, the TC’s.

There are 4 official versions of the AB1266. The AB1266, the AB1266 Phi, The AB1266 Phi CC, and finally, the AB1266 Phi TC. The 1266 Phi was a driver upgrade over the originals. The Phi CC was a upgrade of the finish to a ceramic coating, and new ear pads (not a driver change,) and the Phi TC is another fully new driver. I have personally owned the original AB1266, the AB1266 Phi, and the AB1266 Phi TC. I also owned the Diana Phi for a long period for good measure also. For the rest of this review, I’ll just refer to the Phi TC, as the TC’s, as the name is a bit long.






TC Rear


Abyss Headphones are made entirely in the USA, and are the best built headphones I have personally come across, perhaps tied with the Meze Empyrean in terms of build quality. The design of the AB1266 models is a bit polarizing, with some loving, and some hating it. Abyss has refined the design over the years it has been available, but it is largely the same as it was when it was originally released.

The look of the 1266 is entirely function driven. You can extend it width wise to customize the clamp force from no seal to a very regular feeling seal. You can change the o-rings on the newly released updated headband, which, depending on the size used, will change where the headphones sit vertically. The frame also allows forward and backward “toe in” movement of the cups, which allows further customization of comfort, and also sound. Going even further, the frame can be bent slightly at the upper corners to further customize fit. Although it sound a bit crazy to bend a headphones frame, it is designed to be able to do this, and I would highly recommend anyone who owns a pair to try this out, to further customize and dial in a “perfect” fit.






TC Front


So, how do the TC’s sound? Essentially, they are the most refined AB1266 yet. They are still an AB1266, there is no doubt about it. If you liked the previous versions, you will like the TC’s. I actually personally feel some overstate the difference between the original version and the follow up Phi’s, but there is certainly a string of steady improvements across all versions of the 1266. In general, they have the best, most punchy, and concussive bass on the market. The impact the 1266 provides does happen across the entire frequency response spectrum, but in the low end in particular. Detail and transparency on the TC’s is class leading, equal with the very best of planar magnetic headphones, and headphones in general.

The bass of the 1266 has always been one of its most talked about features. It can be customized varying on the amount of seal the ear pads have on your ears (less seal=more bass.) I’ve always enjoyed a robust bass response, though my preferences have been shifting slowly to less, and less, over the years. The TC’s certainly provide the best bass out of all the 1266 models. It is the quickest, most tactile, and most detailed out of all the models. The impact, perhaps related to the speed of the driver, is also very impressive. I have yet to find a pair of headphones that does impact and so called slam, better than the TC’s. It really is very impressive, especially with certain kinds of music. Electronica, IDM, that sort of thing, is amazing with the TC’s. Given that makes up a lot of my listening time, perhaps its no wonder they are my favourite headphones.






Front w/ZMF Universe Hybrid Perforated Pads


The mids of the TC’s are again, pretty much in line with the older models. Slightly pulled back. I don’t personally feel this wanders into sounding “lean” but I know some people who do enjoy more in terms of mid range level. The mid range is typically where people will find the “warmth” that is so often talked about. The TC’s are not a warm headphone by any means. I actually prefer this, and think it lends itself to a more detailed sounding headphone, but I understand why others feel differently. The TC’s are fabulously detailed in the mid range, it just isn’t as present as some headphones (think Audeze LCD-3, Sennheiser HD650, that sort of thing.)

The highs of the TC’s again carry on a similar sound as past models. However, one thing I have noticed in particular, is the lack of sibilance in the TC’s response. The Phi’s absolutely did have sibilance at times, especially with female vocals. I noticed when I owned the Diana Phi prior to the TC’s, that this sibilance ha disappeared, regardless of the source equipment I was using. I wondered if the TC’s would continue on with that trend, and they certainly do. The very top end is accentuated, which gives a great feeling of space and air. Again, as with the rest of the frequency range, class leading detail is present. I think some who are used to, or prefer a darker headphone will find the TC’s treble response a bit much in terms of level. I don’t personally, but if you are treble sensitive, I would recommend trying the TC’s prior to purchasing if at all possible.






Alternative angle w/ ZMF pads.


The technicalities of the TC, in my opinion, are up there with the best available. Detail, soundstage, transparency, dynamics, both micro and macro, are all class leading. The TC’s all new driver vs the older models has only improved on what was already extremely competent in this regard. Its one of those things that is hard to explain until you hear it for yourself, and really have time to get into it and understand what is going on. 5 minutes at a loud trade show, with a non personalized fit (which admittedly takes a while to figure out) just isn’t going to cut it with these headphones. You need to take a good amount of time to understand how the set up works, and get the best out of the headphones.

In terms of comfort, The TC’s are similar to the old models. The pads on the TC’s were introduced with the CC model, but I never ended up hearing them on that model, thus I have only experienced them on the TC’s. I find these pads do indeed improved upon the original pads that came with the 1266. The soundstage is a bit wider, and imaging is also improved. I also think they are a more comfortable pad than the originals.






Alternate Angle, with stock pads.


That brings me to an interesting tidbit I have figured out. I had a bunch of pads around the house from ZMF headphones, and my time with their models that I reviewed. I ended up trying a bunch of them on the TC’s, simply out of sheer curiosity. I figured that they wouldn’t work, that the driver wouldn’t be dampened properly, or something. Much to my surprise, the results were actually excellent. All you have to do, as the pads don’t have magnets like the stock pads, is put a little bit double sided tape at the N,S,E,W, positions of the drivers baffle, and put the pads on. These ZMF pads of various kinds fit perfectly. I personally tried the Universe Leather Perforated, the Universe Suede Perforated, and the Verite Leather perforated. The most promising in terms of sound was the Universe Suede Perforated, so I then purchased a pair of Universe Hybrid Perforated. These ended up being my favourites out of all of the ones I tried. They largely keep the sound signature the same, perhaps being a smidge brighter and have a tiny bit less soundstage, which can be fixed with a wider position of the frame. The biggest reason I’m mentioning this is that I know some people struggle with comfort when it comes to the AB1266. These ZMF pads increased the comfort in such a way that was far beyond anything I expected. I highly recommend trying this out if you love the TC’s sound signature, but just can’t get on with it comfort wise. If you find the TC’s comfort acceptable, as I do, then I would likely recommend just sticking with the stock pads, but hey, if you are curious, give it a go. Its an entirely non destructive modification, and can be reversed in seconds 🙂

In comparison to the TC’s, I currently only own one other headphone. That is the Hifiman Susvara. At the pricing the Susvara is available at nowadays both used and from some dealers willing to give discounts, they largely cost about the same as the TC’s, maybe a little bit less. Now, I have to note again, the TC’s are my favourite headphones, there is no doubt about that. With that being said, the Susvara are perhaps the perfect foil to the TC’s sound signature. The Susvara are indeed more comfortable, to the point where you could forget you are wearing them. Their build quality compared to the TC’s is a bit of a joke, but it does allow them to weigh less, and achieve higher comfort levels. In terms of sound, the Susvara is a more even keeled sound signature, more balanced, perhaps. It also has class leading detail and technicalities equal to those of the TC’s, but it is a softer, more gentle sounding headphone. The Susvara also has more presence in the midrange, so for someone who highly values classical, especially orchestral works, it may be the better choice. The TC’s are a much more exciting listen, and excel with Electronica, Pop, Rock, Metal, and that sort of thing. In terms of driving the headphones, the Susvara are very hard to drive, and like lots of power. The TC do as well, but to a lesser extent. This is something to keep in mind when considering either headphone.






With the Hifiman Susvara, and Boulder 866


Due to the TC’s increased transparency and detail over the older models, pairing it with the right gear for your preferences is important. That doesn’t necessarily mean more expensive, but something with enough power, and a sound signature that suits you and your ears. The iFi Pro iCAN works really well with the TC’s, and has all sorts of customizable options for a more neutral sound signature, or a warmer signature. All of the Wells Audio headphone amps work well with the TC’s, from the more “romantic” and warm sounding Milo, to the more neutral sounding Headtrip. The best I have personally heard is my Boulder 866, which prioritizes a clean neutral response, with epic driver control. Ultimately, you don’t have to spend a fortune to get great sound out of the TC’s, but careful pairing, and in some cases, more expensive pairings, will indeed bring out the best in them.






Another angle with ZMF pads.


All in all, Joe and the lads at Abyss Headphones have built upon the previous AB1266 offerings in a meaningful way. They are still my favourite headphones, and I reckon they will be until Abyss comes up with another flagship model. For whatever reason, they just “work” for my ears and preferences. I highly recommend trying these headphones out if you see them at a trade show or a local dealer. Do ask for some help and tips about setting them up if you can, as that will help give you the best experience possible. We really are spoiled for choice in terms of great headphones to choose from at the top end of the hobby’s offerings, but if you are like me, and want an exciting, detailed and transparent sound, I honestly don’t think there is better than the AB1266 Phi TC currently. They really are that good!


----------



## leftside

ufospls2 said:


> Hey guys, I'll copy the review below, but if you prefer to view it on my blog, here is my TC review
> 
> https://headphonesnstuff.blog/2021/10/16/abyss-headphones-ab1266-phi-tc-full-review/
> 
> ...


Great review. You put into words the description of these headphones far better than I ever could.


----------



## ufospls2

leftside said:


> Great review. You put into words the description of these headphones far better than I ever could.



Thank you for the kind words, and taking the time to read all of it man


----------



## dukeskd

@ufospls2 Great review, very easy to read and covers the crucial details. The comparison to Susvara is also well done.


----------



## Stereolab42

It's interesting to read the LCD-5 thread... I see parallels between the LCD-5 vs the 4 and the 1266 TC vs. the OG, but with more controversy. It seems to be universal among Abyss fans who've heard both to see the TC as a straight-up improvement in almost all aspects. I wasn't a believer until I heard them side-by-side, then I understood. Seems the 5 is generating more skepticism because people think it's giving up too much of the Audeze house sound, making it more similar to the 1266 TC. The danger here is if the top manufacturers keep converging upon a similar point there will be less and less reason to actually OWN multiple TOTL headphones. I have no plans to swap my LCD-4 for the LCD-5 after reading all this; outside of the backbreaking cost, I already have the 1266 TC, so I don't need something similar.


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 17, 2021)

Stereolab42 said:


> It's interesting to read the LCD-5 thread... I see parallels between the LCD-5 vs the 4 and the 1266 TC vs. the OG, but with more controversy. It seems to be universal among Abyss fans who've heard both to see the TC as a straight-up improvement in almost all aspects. I wasn't a believer until I heard them side-by-side, then I understood. Seems the 5 is generating more skepticism because people think it's giving up too much of the Audeze house sound, making it more similar to the 1266 TC. The danger here is if the top manufacturers keep converging upon a similar point there will be less and less reason to actually OWN multiple TOTL headphones. I have no plans to swap my LCD-4 for the LCD-5 after reading all this; outside of the backbreaking cost, I already have the 1266 TC, so I don't need something similar.


If this is indeed true, then I'm already confused as to how headphones.com can love the LCD-5, but hate (Or shall we say, remain "firmly indifferent" and/or stand-off-ish) towards the TC. To each their own I guess...


----------



## Ciggavelli

littlej0e said:


> If this is indeed true, then I'm already confused as to how headphones.com can love the LCD-5, but hate (Or shall we say, remain "firmly indifferent" and/or stand-off-ish) towards the TC. To each their own I guess...


Maybe because they don’t sell the TCs anymore   

I’m joking (kinda)


----------



## littlej0e

Ciggavelli said:


> Maybe because they don’t sell the TCs anymore
> 
> I’m joking (kinda)


LMAO


----------



## deuter

I have the OG but waiting patiently for Abyss to release a new headphone so I can get the TC for a reasonable be price. Welcome to normal life!


----------



## paradoxper (Oct 17, 2021)

littlej0e said:


> If this is indeed true, then I'm already confused as to how headphones.com can love the LCD-5, but hate (Or shall we say, remain "firmly indifferent" and/or stand-off-ish) towards the TC. To each their own I guess...


It's likely the fit is causing some variable with the 1266 performance. I highly doubt Resolve spent more than 2 weeks total with the TC and I bet in haste but I'll also surmise the LCD-5 midrange may be a little more forward coupled with a smaller stage. I do find it amusing more planars are pursuing the stat-directive although I do find the TC with Primavera already outpaces the DIY T2 and either 009 or SGL but we're nearing the end, they gotta keep up the up-sell, somehow.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

ufospls2 said:


> Hey guys, I'll copy the review below, but if you prefer to view it on my blog, here is my TC review
> 
> https://headphonesnstuff.blog/2021/10/16/abyss-headphones-ab1266-phi-tc-full-review/
> 
> ...


Nice write up and easy to digest too!


----------



## briantrinh86 (Oct 17, 2021)

Please allow me to join the group. 😜  sorry my wallet but i have to get the lastest.


----------



## iFi audio

leftside said:


> I had a new custom amp arrive yesterday. It pairs very nicely with the Abyss. There are 4 output impedance selectors on the front of the amp. Three switches on the rear to switch between 6J5/6SN7 driver tubes, 30mA/60mA for bias of power tubes and CCS/RES to switch between a CCS circuit and one with resistors. Definitely has good power for those power hungry Abyss.
> 
> 
> 
> More details here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1101-audio-custom-crafted-headphone-amps.919425/page-55



I have to say that your headphone amp and Lampizator have really nicely matched enclosures and I assume on purpose  ?


----------



## leftside

Stereolab42 said:


> It's interesting to read the LCD-5 thread... I see parallels between the LCD-5 vs the 4 and the 1266 TC vs. the OG, but with more controversy. It seems to be universal among Abyss fans who've heard both to see the TC as a straight-up improvement in almost all aspects. I wasn't a believer until I heard them side-by-side, then I understood. Seems the 5 is generating more skepticism because people think it's giving up too much of the Audeze house sound, making it more similar to the 1266 TC. The danger here is if the top manufacturers keep converging upon a similar point there will be less and less reason to actually OWN multiple TOTL headphones. I have no plans to swap my LCD-4 for the LCD-5 after reading all this; outside of the backbreaking cost, I already have the 1266 TC, so I don't need something similar.


I feel the same way, but I'm still going to give the LCD5 a listen - hopefully in a few weeks.


----------



## leftside

iFi audio said:


> I have to say that your headphone amp and Lampizator have really nicely matched enclosures and I assume on purpose  ?


Yes indeed. One of the toughest parts of that custom amp was to try and closely match the Lampizator copper case and finish. I spent the afternoon yesterday comparing my three headphone amps with the Abyss if anyone is interested. I'm certainly not as good at describing the sound as from @ufospls2 above though.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1101-audio-custom-crafted-headphone-amps.919425/page-58


----------



## WafflesID

littlej0e said:


> If this is indeed true, then I'm already confused as to how headphones.com can love the LCD-5, but hate (Or shall we say, remain "firmly indifferent" and/or stand-off-ish) towards the TC. To each their own I guess...


Must be all that distortion 🙄


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 18, 2021)

WafflesID said:


> Must be all that distortion 🙄



That is what drives me friggin’ nuts. I’m not complaining because of confirmation bias. I could care less if headhones.com, or anyone else, like the TCs. But many people make purchasing decisions based on those reviews and this is why people can almost never rely on reviews or reviewers. There is pretty much zero true objectivity, sincerity, accuracy, or actual coverage of products. It's all pay-to-play, backdoor, give-me-my-kickback-or-I'll-eviscerate-you, 99% marketing-driven BS. This is the main reason why people have to try things themselves to get a remotely accurate impression of a product. It's just awful.

I wish a dealer/company had a “top-tier traveling kit” with every TOTL headphone. Then people could try everything they wanted and make their own decision without someone telling them what to like. I would be very interested in the results.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

To those s


littlej0e said:


> There is pretty much zero true objectivity, sincerity, accuracy, or actual coverage of products. It's all pay-to-play, backdoor, give-me-my-kickback-or-I'll-eviscerate-you, 99% marketing-driven BS. s.


Isn't this statement a bit strong? Of course there are obvious tendencies not to alienate sponsors and donors of gear and some are not in a position to "review" anything ... but I do not have the feeling that the whole headphone crowd (and we all know who they are) are bought off. Or am I wrong?


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 18, 2021)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> To those s
> 
> Isn't this statement a bit strong? Of course there are obvious tendencies not to alienate sponsors and donors of gear and some are not in a position to "review" anything ... but I do not have the feeling that the whole headphone crowd (and we all know who they are) are bought off. Or am I wrong?


Others may disagree, and I’m not trying to tell anyone that Santa Claus isn’t real. But I’ve personally seen enough to know just about every “reputable” mainstream reviewer or publication has likely been bought off in one way or another.

I’ve actually seen worse in other industries, but the audio industry in particular seems to be quite susceptible to these practices


----------



## ken6217

I’m not the most trusting guy in the world, but I would seriously doubt that a serious reviewer would be bought off. I feel that most reviewers that find a product that they do not think is that good, they just don’t do the review on it.


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 18, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> I’m not the most trusting guy in the world, but I would seriously doubt that a serious reviewer would be bought off. I feel that most reviewers that find a product that they do not think is that good, they just don’t do the review on it.



But that is my point exactly. Wouldn’t any “serious” reviewer have a responsibility to review products they don’t like as well?!? Otherwise, what’s the point? Can they really make proper recommendations this way without it being one-sided confirmation bias? Do you even need to watch or read the review at that point? Just look at the title and you already know how they feel. I bet they also magically remember to include an affiliate link, got free “review gear”, or some other form of active or passive kickback.


----------



## SuperBurrito

Just curious, how tight do people here set the clamping force of the earpads?  Barely touching so that the headphones will slide forward or backward if you tilt your head?  Or tight enough so the headphone stays in place?


----------



## genefruit

SuperBurrito said:


> Just curious, how tight do people here set the clamping force of the earpads?  Barely touching so that the headphones will slide forward or backward if you tilt your head?  Or tight enough so the headphone stays in place?


slider here and recent 3 & 9 o'clock convert.


----------



## DJJEZ

SuperBurrito said:


> Just curious, how tight do people here set the clamping force of the earpads?  Barely touching so that the headphones will slide forward or backward if you tilt your head?  Or tight enough so the headphone stays in place?


Maximum width, 3pm and 9pm on earpads and toed forward like 5 or 10 degrees.


----------



## mitchb

DJJEZ said:


> Maximum width, 3pm and 9pm on earpads and toed forward like 5 or 10 degrees.


I agree. I love these headphones but I am keeping my LCD4’s. They compliment each other nicely.


----------



## Womaz

OK I think i may have heard my first bit of distortion tonight . It may be a badly recorded album?
Streaming the new Coldplay album from Tidal......the track My Universe has a quite a bit of distortion.
This is my first experience of this with the Abyss


----------



## tholt

3 and 9 all day long. I've tried every other position and always come back to it. Always a bit loose on the head but I play with looseness and toe-in depending on mood


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Oct 18, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> Maximum width, 3pm and 9pm on earpads and toed forward like 5 or 10 degrees.


Does 3pm and 9pm mean .... different positions for L and R ? I assume not, but just checking.


----------



## tholt

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Does 3pm and 9pm mean .... different positions for L and R?


No. If you look at the left pad its at 3, the right pad at 9. Seams essentially parallel to the ground in front, both pads. At least that's where mine are at.


----------



## SuperBurrito

Womaz said:


> OK I think i may have heard my first bit of distortion tonight . It may be a badly recorded album?
> Streaming the new Coldplay album from Tidal......the track My Universe has a quite a bit of distortion.
> This is my first experience of this with the Abyss


I've noticed distortion on another track of that album.  So I think it's the recording.


----------



## Womaz

SuperBurrito said:


> I've noticed distortion on another track of that album.  So I think it's the recording.


Yeah it as , had another member PM me about it too.


----------



## MatW (Oct 18, 2021)

Womaz said:


> OK I think i may have heard my first bit of distortion tonight . It may be a badly recorded album?
> Streaming the new Coldplay album from Tidal......the track My Universe has a quite a bit of distortion.
> This is my first experience of this with the Abyss


You have other headphones. Did you check with those?

Edit: sorry, replied before reading the last page.


----------



## DJJEZ

tholt said:


> 3 and 9 all day long. I've tried every other position and always come back to it. Always a bit loose on the head but I play with looseness and toe-in depending on mood


Same here. I haven't found another position that gives as much bass


----------



## DJJEZ

tholt said:


> No. If you look at the left pad its at 3, the right pad at 9. Seams essentially parallel to the ground in front, both pads. At least that's where mine are at.


This ^^^


----------



## Womaz

I find the 3 and 9 position just too much bass. I have the pads at 11 and 1. Jeez these buggers are bassy enough 
Plus we all have different sizes and shapes of ears so I reckon that makes a difference.


----------



## qboogie

@ufospls2 I think I'll try your pad rolling idea.


----------



## briantrinh86

Womaz said:


> I find the 3 and 9 position just too much bass. I have the pads at 11 and 1. Jeez these buggers are bassy enough
> Plus we all have different sizes and shapes of ears so I reckon that makes a difference.


same for me. that's it, that's enough....


----------



## number1sixerfan

Also, beyond just pad positions/rolling, you may want to try bending the frame. When I first got the TC, I had awful distortion at any position on some tracks. Bending the frame inward (for me), got rid of nearly all of it by providing almost an air tight seal around my ears. 

I believe Abyss has a video on bending it.


----------



## WafflesID

number1sixerfan said:


> Also, beyond just pad positions/rolling, you may want to try bending the frame. When I first got the TC, I had awful distortion at any position on some tracks. Bending the frame inward (for me), got rid of nearly all of it by providing almost an air tight seal around my ears.
> 
> I believe Abyss has a video on bending it.


yeah, the second video on their website where joe is explaining on the ways to adjust the sound, towards the end he explains bending the frame out


----------



## deuter

number1sixerfan said:


> Also, beyond just pad positions/rolling, you may want to try bending the frame. When I first got the TC, I had awful distortion at any position on some tracks. Bending the frame inward (for me), got rid of nearly all of it by providing almost an air tight seal around my ears.
> 
> I believe Abyss has a video on bending it.


I actually have mine bent out as that increases the soundstage width and also gives me excellent bass at 2 and 10 pm without bleeding into the midrange.


----------



## ufospls2

qboogie said:


> @ufospls2 I think I'll try your pad rolling idea.


worth a try, especially if you struggle with comfort in terms of the AB1266. I still mainly use the stock pads, but I don't find them uncomfortable.


----------



## number1sixerfan

deuter said:


> I actually have mine bent out as that increases the soundstage width and also gives me excellent bass at 2 and 10 pm without bleeding into the midrange.



Yea I think it strongly depends on head shape. Bending outward would make them unlistenable for me due to increased distortion. I do have a smaller/smallish head though, so there's that.. but I extend the top widening mechanism all the way out for maximum soundstage. 

I think the main takeaway is to try everything you can for your own head shape and listening preferences, as they're highly customizable.


----------



## ufospls2 (Oct 18, 2021)

Its funny,

I was just listening to the song linked below with my TCs, thinking how awesome it sounded,  and realized that 14 years ago to the very day, I was hanging out with the guy who wrote it.

Through a friend, I had ended up at the Ozzy Osbourne concert, with a universal pass. A 'do whatever you want and get away it" card. I remember my friend and I were front row somewhat crowding the area where people had seats. An upset lady called over a security guard, who asked to see our tickets. We showed him our passes, and he said "sorry ma'am, there is nothing I can do...." and then  "..how the hell did you guys get those?" My one and only life experience of feeling like a VIP, haha : )

I got to meet Ozzy, and hang out with Zakk Wylde and Mike Bordin (one of my drumming heroes) back stage.

Great memories! I still have that pass : )


----------



## SuperBurrito

Has anyone tried to contact Abyss/JPS Labs lately?  I didn't get a response from my recent email and when I call it goes to an answering machine that is full (so won't take any more messages).


----------



## ken6217

I think Joe is in the mourning from last nights Bills loss.


----------



## JLoud

Just an FYI, I have listed my SC in the classifieds.


----------



## geta123

tholt said:


> 3 and 9 all day long. I've tried every other position and always come back to it. Always a bit loose on the head but I play with looseness and toe-in depending on mood


Truuu


----------



## geta123

Lol


Ciggavelli said:


> Maybe because they don’t sell the TCs anymore
> 
> I’m joking (kinda)


----------



## Roasty

JLoud said:


> Just an FYI, I have listed my SC in the classifieds.



I'm curious, what is the replacement cable?


----------



## JLoud

Back to stock and a Norne Audio silver cable.


----------



## WafflesID

JLoud said:


> Back to stock and a Norne Audio silver cable.


Not enough difference between Norne and SC?  Or just financial decision?


----------



## JLoud

Looking to get a Audeze CRBN. The SC was the best cable I have heard, but the Norne is pretty nice as well.


----------



## tholt

ufospls2 said:


> I got to meet Ozzy, and hang out with Zakk Wylde and Mike Bordin (one of my drumming heroes) back stage.


Too cool! And agreed, Mike Bordin is a fantastic drummer. Love him in Faith No More


----------



## Ciggavelli

JLoud said:


> Looking to get a Audeze CRBN. The SC was the best cable I have heard, but the Norne is pretty nice as well.


I’m thinking the same about picking up a CRBN. I look forward to your impressions. Torq said it’s his favorite pair of headphones. He doesn’t have the TCs in his top 5, so he might prefer different sound than us TC folks. Still, he has me very interested


----------



## ray1

Ive been looking for a tc for a while now, and have had some offers on some of the non tc versions like the og and cc versions, what are the main differences between the tc and these other ones?


----------



## ray1

Also was wondering, my stack is currently a yggy a2 w/ unison + hsa 1b, would this bottleneck the 1266?


----------



## vonBaron (Oct 22, 2021)

I am currently testing the SC cable vs my Lazuli Ultra and when it comes to sonic properties, I prefer Lazuli. The SC already sharpens the sound a bit too much and slightly slims the sound (I don't like the high tones in particular, they are too sharp for me), I also think that the soundstage on Lazuli is better. The sound on Lazuli is smoother, fuller, more musical, i get more bass, less treble and fuller mids.


----------



## deuter

vonBaron said:


> I am currently testing the SC cable vs my Lazuli Ultra and when it comes to sonic properties, I prefer Lazuli. The SC already sharpens the sound a bit too much and slightly slims the sound (I don't like the high tones in particular, they are too sharp for me), I also think that the soundstage on Lazuli is better. The sound on Lazuli is smoother, fuller, more musical, i get more bass, less treble and fuller mids.


Could you compare the Lazuli to stock cable and advise which one you prefer?


----------



## Ciggavelli

This schitt is crazy.  The drumming


----------



## vonBaron

SP2000T can drive 1266 TC nice! Holly molly!


----------



## deuter

vonBaron said:


> SP2000T can drive 1266 TC nice! Holly molly!


What is that?


----------



## vonBaron

https://www.astellnkern.com/eng/con...scg=CG210180&spos=0&tcg=&tpos=0&gcode=SC36700


----------



## cangle

ray1 said:


> Also was wondering, my stack is currently a yggy a2 w/ unison + hsa 1b, would this bottleneck the 1266?


Definitely won't bottleneck it but the 1266 scales nicely based on what I've read so you might want to explore other options too. There are some impressions of other people in the thread using the hsa-1b with the 1266 that you could check out by searching. I wouldn't worry about bottlenecking the headphone unless you were using a 789 and some low cost dac


----------



## WafflesID

While waiting for my 1266 to ship I've been driving myself insane trying to decide on next upgrade.  

Upgrade the SU-9 or get something like a primaluna Evo tube preamp.

For DACs I'm leaning MP-D2 MK3, or the musetec mh-da005, but I can't help but think a tube preamp would be the most fun.


----------



## szore

WafflesID said:


> While waiting for my 1266 to ship I've been driving myself insane trying to decide on next upgrade.
> 
> Upgrade the SU-9 or get something like a primaluna Evo tube preamp.
> 
> For DACs I'm leaning MP-D2 MK3, or the musetec mh-da005, but I can't help but think a tube preamp would be the most fun.


Just lurking and curious; why those 2 DAC choices? Is there something special about them?


----------



## WafflesID

szore said:


> Just lurking and curious; why those 2 DAC choices? Is there something special about them?


the idea of a tubed DAC is intriguing, thus the MP-D2 MK3.  While researching the MP-D2 MK3 someone mentioned they prefer the MH-DA004, which lead me to the MH-DA005, and some people are saying it holds it's own against the Holoaudio May even. But I still love the idea that you can replace the DAC in the MP-D2 MK3 later if something new comes out. So I go back to that.

Both of these DACs look like they could compete with much more expensive DACs.  That's the big reason I'm looking at these two.  

But really, are these a significant upgrade over the SU-9?  I just don't know.  How much am I really going to notice the difference between the SU-9 and one of these other DACs. I have the feeling that I'm going to have to spend more than $2k to really notice the difference from the SU-9.  Which makes me think I should go for a tube Pre-Amp next.  

I can talk myself into circles all day.


----------



## Jon L

vonBaron said:


> SP2000T can drive 1266 TC nice! Holly molly!


It's a bit odd that AK SP2000T spec sheet does not state the headphone power output...


----------



## szore

WafflesID said:


> the idea of a tubed DAC is intriguing, thus the MP-D2 MK3.  While researching the MP-D2 MK3 someone mentioned they prefer the MH-DA004, which lead me to the MH-DA005, and some people are saying it holds it's own against the Holoaudio May even. But I still love the idea that you can replace the DAC in the MP-D2 MK3 later if something new comes out. So I go back to that.
> 
> Both of these DACs look like they could compete with much more expensive DACs.  That's the big reason I'm looking at these two.
> 
> ...


I think at the end of the day, at this level, synergy is most important. Yes there are different price levels, but the best sound will come from the setup that compliments itself, and transcends the sum of its parts...


----------



## WafflesID

szore said:


> I think at the end of the day, at this level, synergy is most important. Yes there are different price levels, but the best sound will come from the setup that compliments itself, and transcends the sum of its parts...


That's a strong argument for just getting the xiaudio stack and calling it a day.


----------



## WafflesID

Well crap, the Okto Dac8 Stereo looks like a pretty good contender as well. With a built in Pi for roon streaming, this might have jumped to the top.  Really think I'm going with the PrimaLuna preamp first.


----------



## WafflesID

number1sixerfan said:


> Just a quick question. The tube speaker amp is arriving today and I'd like to use them with the TC/Susvara. I do have the raal/susvara interface boxes coming that should be here in a week or so. Is there major issue in using the headphones directly with the amp without? Again, it's an EVO 400. Just wandering because I know I read that it was more of a potential issue with tube amps vs. solid state. Any help is appreciated



So how did this go?  I didn't see if there was a followup on this. I've been considering the Evo 400.  I was thinking Pre-Amp, but i'm curious if the Evo 400 power amp or integrated amp can handle the TC.


----------



## number1sixerfan

WafflesID said:


> So how did this go?  I didn't see if there was a followup on this. I've been considering the Evo 400.  I was thinking Pre-Amp, but i'm curious if the Evo 400 power amp or integrated amp can handle the TC.



I made a more formal impression post in the speaker amp thread here in summit-fi, but any decent speaker amp should do well with the TC. I actually preferred the TC/WA33 combo by a slight margin (best I've ever heard the TC personally), but ultimately the TC sounds great out of a lot of amps. Susvara benefits from a speaker amp more than it does, but a good tube amp does help with the mids a bit for the Abyss.


----------



## WafflesID

number1sixerfan said:


> I made a more formal impression post in the speaker amp thread here in summit-fi, but any decent speaker amp should do well with the TC. I actually preferred the TC/WA33 combo by a slight margin (best I've ever heard the TC personally), but ultimately the TC sounds great out of a lot of amps. Susvara benefits from a speaker amp more than it does, but a good tube amp does help with the mids a bit for the Abyss.



yeah, I ordered the chord ttoby based on some user impressions here.

I asked because I was concerned about safety of plugging headphones into a tube amp (evo 400) speaker post (sounds riskier than doing it with a SS), but then i saw this:

https://www.zynsonix.com/Deluxe-Speaker-Amp-to-Headphone-Converter-Box_p_54.html 

if the WA33 beats the Evo 400 by only a slight margin, then that seals the deal for me.  Evo 400 would have more uses than just headphones.

Ultimately I want something that works well with the TC and keeps the door open for the susvara later or speakers or even the SR1a.


----------



## number1sixerfan

WafflesID said:


> yeah, I ordered the chord ttoby based on some user impressions here.
> 
> I asked because I was concerned about safety of plugging headphones into a tube amp (evo 400) speaker post (sounds riskier than doing it with a SS), but then i saw this:
> 
> ...



Gotcha, yea with a tube (speaker) amp I would be a bit more careful and ensure you have a quality resistor box just to be safe. 

And that's exactly why I kept the Evo 400. Plan to use with a speaker system in the future and the performance with the TC was so close to the wa33, and really good with the Sr1a.


----------



## jlbrach

cangle said:


> Definitely won't bottleneck it but the 1266 scales nicely based on what I've read so you might want to explore other options too. There are some impressions of other people in the thread using the hsa-1b with the 1266 that you could check out by searching. I wouldn't worry about bottlenecking the headphone unless you were using a 789 and some low cost dac


the hsa-1b does a fine job with the TC using the adapter....


----------



## jlbrach

WafflesID said:


> That's a strong argument for just getting the xiaudio stack and calling it a day.


cant go wrong there for sure


----------



## Leotis (Oct 25, 2021)

Tiny rubber bands on my head strap have gone wimpy. I use a 1/2' foam pad attached under the head strap. It helps but the head strap rests on the metal frame at this point.
Contacted JPS about replacement bands but all they had to offer was a new head strap for $250. Seems overpriced. For a $4500 headphone seems like the original wimpy rubber band is a pretty feeble design feature. Would expect a more accommodating solution than fork $250. Anyone have a hack to solve this problem?
Figure I can just attach a rubber o-ring myself... or fork the $250. Wonder what size o-ring would be best.


----------



## ken6217

Leotis said:


> Tiny rubber bands on my head strap have gone wimpy. I use a 1/2' foam pad attached under the head strap. It helps but the head strap rests on the metal frame at this point.
> Contacted JPS about replacement bands but all they had to offer was a new head strap for $250. Seems overpriced. For a $4500 headphone seems like the original wimpy rubber band is a pretty feeble design feature. Would expect a more accommodating solution than fork $250. Anyone have a hack to solve this problem?
> Figure I can just attach a rubber o-ring myself... or fork the $250. Wonder what size o-ring would be best.



Look under accessories. They sell a little blue pill for wimpy bands.


----------



## qboogie

Leotis said:


> Tiny rubber bands on my head strap have gone wimpy. I use a 1/2' foam pad attached under the head strap. It helps but the head strap rests on the metal frame at this point.
> Contacted JPS about replacement bands but all they had to offer was a new head strap for $250. Seems overpriced. For a $4500 headphone seems like the original wimpy rubber band is a pretty feeble design feature. Would expect a more accommodating solution than fork $250. Anyone have a hack to solve this problem?
> Figure I can just attach a rubber o-ring myself... or fork the $250. Wonder what size o-ring would be best.



I'm guessing you don't have the new headband that has replaceable o-rings. If you do, order yourself some replacement #_213_ O-rings


----------



## SuperBurrito

Leotis said:


> Tiny rubber bands on my head strap have gone wimpy. I use a 1/2' foam pad attached under the head strap. It helps but the head strap rests on the metal frame at this point.
> Contacted JPS about replacement bands but all they had to offer was a new head strap for $250. Seems overpriced. For a $4500 headphone seems like the original wimpy rubber band is a pretty feeble design feature. Would expect a more accommodating solution than fork $250. Anyone have a hack to solve this problem?
> Figure I can just attach a rubber o-ring myself... or fork the $250. Wonder what size o-ring would be best.


I agree completely.  The headband is not that great to begin with, and $250 is silly.  I'd bet some aftermarket company like Dekoni could make a better headband for $100.  

Just curious, what foam pad do you use?


----------



## Leotis

Quite a while back was a discussion about tricks to get a better fit and someone was using 1/2" foam rubber so i tried it and it worked well for me. Just bought a small sheet of foam and cut it to size. "Upholstered" it with some 4" wide black vinyl tape. Looks semi funky but provided.
 a better fit.


----------



## Leotis

Seems possible the new $250 strap might fit OK without needing the mod.


----------



## JLoud

I love my TC, but they are pretty funky looking headphones. Your "suspension strap" took it to a whole new level! But hey, if it's comfortable for you, more power to you.


----------



## MatW (Oct 26, 2021)

Leotis said:


> Seems possible the new $250 strap might fit OK without needing the mod.


The new headband is very comfortable in my opinion. Much better than the old one. Worth the investment, and no need for such mods. The ability to replace the rings to adjust the fit is a great feature. Abyss should provide a couple of sizes though.


----------



## qboogie (Oct 26, 2021)

[Re-posted from the Formula S thread)

I finally had the chance to do a volume-matched comparison between the FS/P (TT2/M-scaler on DAC duty via superconductor V RCA) and the TT2 dual XLR3 output (with Moon Audio female-to-female XLR3 adapters). The headphone is the 1266 TC + Superconductor HP cable. I struggled with whether I should sell my FS/P stack to free up some funds and try something new (maybe the CRBN?) but I don't think I will be doing that anytime soon.

I used a sound level meter and several test tones (40hz, 250 hz, 1 khz, 2.5 khz )  to make sure the TT2 and FS were matched.

*Bass*.  The FS just gives more present and impactful bass than the TT2.  You can feel the oscillations of bass tones and even more sub-bass rumble. It just seems the FS is more interested in delivering the sensation and tactile experience of bass than it is in the tonal accuracy of bass. It's on full display here and bordering on supernatural. Some people talk about bass "grip" and I've always wondered what that referred to. I think I'm starting to understand now, maybe.  This doesn't appear to be related to pure power, as TT2 outputs many more watts from its dual XLR compared to the FS. The FS just does a better job squeezing out that last drop in TC's bass technicalities and prowess, and it does so effortlessly.

*Mids*: Vocals feel slightly warmer, and slightly more forward. Tonally, I'm hearing more body overall.  The TT2 conversely does mids with a tiny bit more brightness (and probably correctness) and seems to have an edge in microdetail. The TT2 has a better ability to render actual vocalizations (word-forming, spit bubbles popping, etc). I suppose the slight loss of transparency is the price you pay.

*Treble*: I'd give this to the TT2, which treats treble a little more delicately. Let's take the hi-hat for example. On some tracks, the TT2 really nails the metallic vibration and coarseness of a drumstick against the hi-hat. The FS seems to focus more on the impact itself with less of the sizzle (more attack, less decay if you will). It might as well be a wooden spoon against that hi-hat. Again, not as delicate as the TT2's handling, and not as realistic. Keep in mind this is with the  superconductor HP cable, which to my ears, already imparts a smoother and more subdued treble experience compared to the stock cable, which allowed a little too much energy in that region for my tastes.  Who knows, maybe the Formula S actually tones down the stock cable treble juuuuust the right amount and inches it closer to the TT2's handling.

The Formula S / Powerman combo really makes a lot of sense in the context of the TC. I can see why it's been said that this amp tuned for this specific headphone, since it augments its best feature (the bass), while improving on its main two sonic flaws: the distant and slightly cold mids; and the (occasionally) excessive treble energy.

As for other factors like soundstage dimensions, I honestly can't tell the difference -- it's like comparing humongous vs enormous. Let's say it's a tie.

[*edit*: I went back and assessed the spatial qualities of the FS. I honestly prefer the TT2's overall abilities here. I agree that the TC does have more instrument separation and a wider stage. Also the image seems taller, as well. But the stage on the FS is sadly flatter in the anterior-posterior direction. I can offer a potential explanation for this loss of depth: maybe it's a combination of the mids being brought more forward, along with the stereo separation between instruments/sounds increasing mostly laterally on top of an already wide stage. On the song Lake Street Dive - Use Me Up and Postmodern Juke Box - Hey Ya!, the effect is that the back-up singers sound like they're at your 9- and 3 o'clock, instead of in front of you at your 10 and 2 (on the TT2). I hope that makes some sense. Overall the TT2's spatial handling seems to preserve more realism, which I do value over the stage being wider. 

What all this means to me is that as long as I own a 1266 TC, the Formula S / Powerman will stay with it. The TT2 is still impressive and very capable of driving the 1266 (not to mention, being better at showcasing the TC's detail and imaging prowess) but we're talking about obtaining that last 3.298% of peak performance, and I'm fairly confident the Formula S unlocks that (without my having to pay an absurd amount for a WA33). YMMV of course


----------



## MasterZen

Thanks for the review, I was thinking of getting the FS/P stack as well, in England it is super expensive £6000+ , still unsure though for the extra 3.3% 

What genre of music did you try it with? 

Side note - how is FS/P with verite open?


----------



## Womaz

MasterZen said:


> Thanks for the review, I was thinking of getting the FS/P stack as well, in England it is super expensive £6000+ , still unsure though for the extra 3.3%
> 
> What genre of music did you try it with?
> 
> Side note - how is FS/P with verite open?


I also think it appears difficult to get it here in England.


----------



## MasterZen

Womaz said:


> I also think it appears difficult to get it here in England.


Definitely is the case, I think there is only 1 supplier up in Glasglow that does them


----------



## deuter

MasterZen said:


> Definitely is the case, I think there is only 1 supplier up in Glasglow that does them


And you need more because? In Australia too we have only one supplier.
It’s not a mainstream Apple or Samsung product as you know.


----------



## MasterZen

deuter said:


> And you need more because? In Australia too we have only one supplier.
> It’s not a mainstream Apple or Samsung product as you know.



Easier to build a relationship with dealers on products if you have more dealers to choose from


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Oct 26, 2021)

qboogie said:


> [Re-posted from the Formula S thread)
> 
> I finally had the chance to do a volume-matched comparison between the FS/P (TT2/M-scaler on DAC duty via superconductor V RCA) and the TT2 dual XLR3 output (with Moon Audio female-to-female XLR3 adapters). The headphone is the 1266 TC + Superconductor HP cable. I struggled with whether I should sell my FS/P stack to free up some funds and try something new (maybe the CRBN?) but I don't think I will be doing that anytime soon.
> 
> ...



Superb impression there. I just compared FS/P and TT2 too few days ago, and I think my result 90% the same as you (Using Diana Phi).

The only differences are:
- Soundstage definitely wider with FS/P, not miles away different, but noticeable.
- TT2 alone produce more fluid/effortless feel, could be because of better treble performance on TT2.


----------



## dudeX

qboogie said:


> [Re-posted from the Formula S thread)
> 
> I finally had the chance to do a volume-matched comparison between the FS/P (TT2/M-scaler on DAC duty via superconductor V RCA) and the TT2 dual XLR3 output (with Moon Audio female-to-female XLR3 adapters). The headphone is the 1266 TC + Superconductor HP cable. I struggled with whether I should sell my FS/P stack to free up some funds and try something new (maybe the CRBN?) but I don't think I will be doing that anytime soon.
> 
> ...





qboogie said:


> It might as well be a wooden spoon against that hi-hat.


When I first got the Drop Hifiman 5xx, every cymbal hit did sound wooden, like I can hear the stick itself, and the cymbal simultaneously. Having played drums before, you can only hear the wood if you strike it a certain way, but not generally. The effect went away after several hours of listening though, and the cymbals sounded like cymbals.


----------



## DJJEZ

IMO also The formula S and P has a much blacker Background  compared to TT2 alone. It's one of the first things I noticed when I bought the formula S/P and compared both.


----------



## jlbrach

with the powerman the background is incredibly black it is one of the reasons the bass sounds more prominent and you hear more detail IMO...in terms of relative to other amps...you cannot beat the transparency of the dave or I suppose the tt2 on their own


----------



## drew911d

Uh, just received a NOS Amperex medical/technical grade tube labeled Tektronix 12au7 for my Riviera AIC-10 Amp.  Awesome upgrade.  So much more accurate representation from the mTT2.  WOW, the sound is so amazing.  All the detail of the TT2, plus the extra power of the amp.  Extra oomph for the bass, bigger soundstage and more!  I know I had a small writeup before, warmer and smaller (more accurate soundstage?  Did I write that?) With the RT tube on the Riviera.

Well, I have to say, I'm impressed further.  This AIC -10 is Super Amazing.  I will have to try more tubes, mainly some high grade Mullard short term.  Loving it so far.  I'm still on the Phi, Not TC.  Someday as funds allow I'll upgrade, but likely after I can upgrade my TT2 to DAVE (why I persued an external amp).


----------



## qboogie (Oct 26, 2021)

MasterZen said:


> Thanks for the review, I was thinking of getting the FS/P stack as well, in England it is super expensive £6000+ , still unsure though for the extra 3.3%
> 
> What genre of music did you try it with?
> 
> Side note - how is FS/P with verite open?


I went back and assessed the spatial qualities of the FS. I honestly prefer the TT2's overall abilities here. I agree that the TC does have more instrument separation and a wider stage. Also the image seems taller, as well. But the stage on the FS is sadly flatter in the anterior-posterior direction. I can offer a potential explanation for this loss of depth: maybe it's a combination of the mids being brought more forward, along with the stereo separation between instruments/sounds increasing mostly laterally on top of an already wide stage. On the song Lake Street Dive - Use Me Up and Postmodern Juke Box - Hey Ya!, the effect is that the back-up singers sound like they're at your 9- and 3 o'clock, instead of in front of you at your 10 and 2 (on the TT2). I hope that makes some sense. Overall the TT2's spatial handling seems to preserve more realism, which I do value over the stage being wider.  I'll update my original post

Here is a playlist of the songs I used. There is a loose order to the songs, in a manner I don't care to describe. I listen to melodic/groovy vocal-heavy modern stuff that is usually danceable (I used to be a hip-hop dancer).

https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/88050727-9af1-4868-88d8-ff061a9bf9d1

And yes I have tried the Verite Open with the FS/P and it freaking _hisses and hums. _I honestly can't ignore it enough to give the VO a proper shot on the the FS/P. But given one of the VO's main gifts is its very holographic stage, I wouldn't recommend it knowing what I know now about how the FS flattens the stage.


----------



## MatW (Oct 27, 2021)

qboogie said:


> And yes I have tried the Verite Open with the FS/P and it freaking _hisses and hums._


I have this too, with easy to drive headphones like the Empyrean and Utopia. Very faint, in the background, but noticeable for me. Not a hiss or a hum, another electrical noise, hard to describe. A bit of a downside of the FS/P, to be honest. Great for the harder to drive HPs though.


----------



## MasterZen

qboogie said:


> I went back and assessed the spatial qualities of the FS. I honestly prefer the TT2's overall abilities here. I agree that the TC does have more instrument separation and a wider stage. Also the image seems taller, as well. But the stage on the FS is sadly flatter in the anterior-posterior direction. I can offer a potential explanation for this loss of depth: maybe it's a combination of the mids being brought more forward, along with the stereo separation between instruments/sounds increasing mostly laterally on top of an already wide stage. On the song Lake Street Dive - Use Me Up and Postmodern Juke Box - Hey Ya!, the effect is that the back-up singers sound like they're at your 9- and 3 o'clock, instead of in front of you at your 10 and 2 (on the TT2). I hope that makes some sense. Overall the TT2's spatial handling seems to preserve more realism, which I do value over the stage being wider.  I'll update my original post
> 
> Here is a playlist of the songs I used. There is a loose order to the songs, in a manner I don't care to describe. I listen to melodic/groovy vocal-heavy modern stuff that is usually danceable (I used to be a hip-hop dancer).
> 
> ...


 
Awesome reply, many thanks. 

Will check out that tidal playlist too, always good to try new music.

I've been hesitating about buying the FS/P, but maybe I dont need it at the moment. Perhaps will buy some more headphones instead to scratch that itch    or a tube amp for the VO, I haven't bonded with it as well as I had hoped, should probably give it a chance before selling


----------



## qboogie (Oct 27, 2021)

drew911d said:


> Uh, just received a NOS Amperex medical/technical grade tube labeled Tektronix 12au7 for my Riviera AIC-10 Amp.  Awesome upgrade.  So much more accurate representation from the mTT2.  WOW, the sound is so amazing.  All the detail of the TT2, plus the extra power of the amp.  Extra oomph for the bass, bigger soundstage and more!  I know I had a small writeup before, warmer and smaller (more accurate soundstage?  Did I write that?) With the RT tube on the Riviera.
> 
> Well, I have to say, I'm impressed further.  This AIC -10 is Super Amazing.  I will have to try more tubes, mainly some high grade Mullard short term.  Loving it so far.  I'm still on the Phi, Not TC.  Someday as funds allow I'll upgrade, but likely after I can upgrade my TT2 to DAVE (why I persued an external amp).


Have you tried any of the holy grail Sylvania Gold Brand tubes? I have a GB-6201 (black plate, 2 mica, gold pin) that sounds incredible that I can loan you. PM me if interested. It's compatible with 12AU7. This brand of tubes is known for having very rich and more forward mids -- never a bad thing to have more of that with the TC.

Would love to hear how it compares to your Amperex 12AU7. I also have a harder-to-find NOS GB-5751 (gray plate, 3 mica, steel pin) that hasn't been burned-in yet so can't comment on whether it's a better tube. According to Joe's Tube Lore, it's THE tube to get but I prefer the 6201 in my MHA200 for now.


----------



## drew911d (Oct 27, 2021)

qboogie said:


> Have you tried any of the holy grail Sylvania Gold Brand tubes? I have a GB-6201 (black plate, 2 mica, gold pin) that sounds incredible that I can loan you. PM me if interested. It's compatible with 12AU7. This brand of tubes is known for having very rich and more forward mids -- never a bad thing to have more of that with the TC.
> 
> Would love to hear how it compares to your Amperex 12AU7. I also have a harder-to-find NOS GB-5751 (gray plate, 3 mica, steel pin) that hasn't been burned-in yet so can't comment on whether it's a better tube. According to Joe's Tube Lore, it's THE tube to get but I prefer the 6201 in my MHA200 for now.


The Amperex is only the second tube I've tried.  The Riviera came to me with a Radiotechnique tube that has a more forward mids sound and smaller soundstage.  It may be somewhat like the Sylvania you have.  Very fun sounding tube, but I prefer the more transparent sound of the Amperex for now.  It's so very close to the TT2 sound, but more impactfull and slightly fuller sound.  Between those tubes it's similar to what you described as the difference between the FS and TT2.

Next tube I want to try is a Mullard.  Many Riviera owners end up with Mullard as their fave.

I have yet to try my IEM with the Riviera.  I want to try that just to see if I get any hiss.  The Abyss Phi sounds so awesome with this amp.  Highly recommend it.

I'm saving to upgrade my TT2 to a Dave, it's why I bought the amp, to be ready for it.  Maybe 6 months yet to go...

I do want to collect more tubes to have for variety.  I'll add the Sylvania to the list.


----------



## Womaz

As previously stated the TCs have literally blown me away, so I started researching a better DAC and Amp or an all in one suitable for them.
I have more or less decided on the Niimbus US5 Pro , with a Qutest. The Qutest may be a short term purchase but I needed to get an affordable DAC.

I just have a couple of concerns . The Niimbus is a Dual Mono amp, and the Qutest does not have Balanced topography. Will I be missing out on something by using RCA as opposed to full XLR implementation? If this is a basic or even a stupid question then accept my apologies in advance 
Like my amp will be a fully Balanced amp......the Qutest is not. 

Another concern is could the Niimbus - Qutest combination be a bit too revealing? I ask this as the TCs definitely have a bit of high energy at the top end and I am a little averse to this. I love them but they are very revealing. I guess some of the music I listen to might not be the best recorded material and the TCs do not mask this.
Has anyone used the above combination to drive their TCs.

Any guidance as always appreciated


----------



## DJJEZ

Womaz said:


> As previously stated the TCs have literally blown me away, so I started researching a better DAC and Amp or an all in one suitable for them.
> I have more or less decided on the Niimbus US5 Pro , with a Qutest. The Qutest may be a short term purchase but I needed to get an affordable DAC.
> 
> I just have a couple of concerns . The Niimbus is a Dual Mono amp, and the Qutest does not have Balanced topography. Will I be missing out on something by using RCA as opposed to full XLR implementation? If this is a basic or even a stupid question then accept my apologies in advance
> ...


The qutest is on the brighter side of neutral so maybe you need something more dead neutral or warmer


----------



## briantrinh86

Does anybody try benchmark da3 vs qutest, i have hpa4 for my tc, I have qutest but i don't know if the benchmark dac3 is better than the Qutest?


----------



## Stereolab42

briantrinh86 said:


> Does anybody try benchmark da3 vs qutest, i have hpa4 for my tc, I have qutest but i don't know if the benchmark dac3 is better than the Qutest?



For the HPA4/TC combo you really want a DAC that can output higher pro audio voltages instead of the standard consumer +4v XLR, so look toward the DA3 or the RME ADI-2 Pro.


----------



## paradoxper (Oct 27, 2021)

Womaz said:


> As previously stated the TCs have literally blown me away, so I started researching a better DAC and Amp or an all in one suitable for them.
> I have more or less decided on the Niimbus US5 Pro , with a Qutest. The Qutest may be a short term purchase but I needed to get an affordable DAC.
> 
> I just have a couple of concerns . The Niimbus is a Dual Mono amp, and the Qutest does not have Balanced topography. Will I be missing out on something by using RCA as opposed to full XLR implementation? If this is a basic or even a stupid question then accept my apologies in advance
> ...


I am quite sure the Niimbus is dual mono but not fully differential. However, in any case, while technically you may leave performance on the table using a balanced amp with a single ended DAC, you likely won't see this mean in practical application. In some amps, yes. Those which are bridged are a good example, those whom sum single ended output another.

More problematic may be how you find the synergy of Niimbus with Qutest as this is exacerbated coldness. The Qutest is the weak link although all Chord DACs are subpar.


----------



## vonBaron

Qutest are cold DAC?


----------



## paradoxper

vonBaron said:


> Qutest are cold DAC?


In relative context. Compared to your Morpheus, absolutely, for example.


----------



## vonBaron

Strange, for me is the warmest of Chord DACs.


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> Strange, for me is the warmest of Chord DACs.


But you're comparing it to another Chord DAC.


----------



## paradoxper

vonBaron said:


> Strange, for me is the warmest of Chord DACs.


We can agree there. It is still not R2R warm, and it was a general indictment on Chord DACs as they're too artificial, overtly sharp sounding.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> We can agree there. It is still not R2R warm, and *it was a general indictment on Chord DACs as they're too artificial, overtly sharp sounding.*


I detect a holy war on the horizon.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> I detect a holy war on the horizon.


When it comes to feelings, it's to the death.


----------



## jaboki

paradoxper said:


> We can agree there. It is still not R2R warm, and it was a general indictment on Chord DACs as they're too artificial, overtly sharp sounding.


Just curious, what DAC's do you usually recommend to go with the CFA3 + 1266?


----------



## paradoxper

jaboki said:


> Just curious, what DAC's do you usually recommend to go with the CFA3 + 1266?


It would depend on the budget allocated. I like OG Yggdrasil/Walnut,Morpheus,Wavedream,D1. 

There is also a difference between neutral character and refinement for synergy. DAVE is terrible compared to Bartok. CFA3 is to a less degree much better than Niimbus.
The match-game mating principle applies though.


----------



## DJJEZ

vonBaron said:


> Strange, for me is the warmest of Chord DACs.


Having owned all 3 I would say it goes:

Hugo 2/Qutest - bright side of neutral
TT2 - warm
Dave - Neutral


----------



## Womaz (Oct 28, 2021)

Some great replies so thanks.
I guess this is what I am concerned about. At present the Amp/DAC I have has supposedly a slightly warmer presentation. Even now I can find some brightness (I definitely think I am sensitive to this) so moving to a more revealing amp , maybe I should look at another DAC.
The dealer has been great so far and I am getting his demo Qutest at home for a demo.
The issue is if I dont like it I am without a DAC and unable to listen to my headphones 

I also think pairing it with the Qutest may give me a false impression of the Niimbus. Maybe I should get a different DAC now and use it with my Burson and then see what i think. However the Burson 3X Reference has a decent DAC........oh so many balls in the air 

I am making progress with my decision though.....honest but maybe I should try an R2R DAC in my current system first .Only issue is I would be buying blind and I would not be able to return it if I don’t like it

Edit  Yesterday I was close to just ordering the Sonnet Morpheus ..................


----------



## cangle

Womaz said:


> Some great replies so thanks.
> I guess this is what I am concerned about. At present the Amp/DAC I have has supposedly a slightly warmer presentation. Even now I can find some brightness (I definitely think I am sensitive to this) so moving to a more revealing amp , maybe I should look at another DAC.
> The dealer has been great so far and I am getting his demo Qutest at home for a demo.
> The issue is if I dont like it I am without a DAC and unable to listen to my headphones
> ...


If you're looking for a cheap dac to pair with the nimbus while you save for something else but don't want anything too bright, you could try the Schiit Bifrost 2 or Denafrips Ares II. Both are less than 1k and known to have a warmer signature. I haven't heard either though so I can't speak from experience just from what I've read. Will be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Quetest.


----------



## Womaz (Oct 28, 2021)

cangle said:


> If you're looking for a cheap dac to pair with the nimbus while you save for something else but don't want anything too bright, you could try the Schiit Bifrost 2 or Denafrips Ares II. Both are less than 1k and known to have a warmer signature. I haven't heard either though so I can't speak from experience just from what I've read. Will be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Quetest.


Yes I have already had these on the radar. The Schiit I think is very difficult to get right now. The Denafrips I have also looked at. Both the Aries and the Pontus

One thing I did learn today is that I can listen to the Niimbus direct from my lap top if I have to do this as a short term measure. I was under the impression that if I dont like the Qutest, and had to send it back, that I would be unable to listen to my headphones.

I am sensitive to a bit of high end sharpness and sibilance and I am aware that the 1266TCs are very revealing as I am assuming the Niimbus is also.

The Sonnet Morpheus is the DAC that really appeals right now.


----------



## WafflesID

My TCs shipped today!!  This is going to be an interesting weekend.


----------



## qboogie

WafflesID said:


> My TCs shipped today!!  This is going to be an interesting weekend.


Enjoy. Hopefully you get the right fit ASAP. There is a little 1266 beginner's anxiety that one is missing out on the optimal sound, but that will come. What I would strongly recommend is pulling up a simple track with bass guitar and hi-hats, so that you can "calibrate "the correct position.   The bass should have correct tonality along with proper texture and impact. Sometimes you get one and not the other, which tells me the TC needs to be repositioned. I sometimes start my listening sessions with this kind of song just to make sure.

 Another phenomenon is that higher bass pitches will lose  some  rumble and "grip" compared to lower pitches. It's been mentioned in this thread a couple of times before. I think it's inherent to the TC to some degree given the lack of complete seal, but can be minimized with high quality amplification and positioning. In that sense these headphones are really similar to a 2 channel setup.  This doesn't occur at all with my other headphones.

 I recommend the song for calibration.  Vulfpeck - Disco Ulysses (instrumental). It's just a funky bass guitar,  disco guitar, and drum kit. I've included it here.

Abyss headphone test 

 You're going to drive it with the TToby? Another user named @Orlok was raving about the TC and TToby setup a while back


----------



## WafflesID

qboogie said:


> Enjoy. Hopefully you get the right fit ASAP. There is a little 1266 beginner's anxiety that one is missing out on the optimal sound, but that will come. What I would strongly recommend is pulling up a simple track with bass guitar and hi-hats, so that you can "calibrate "the correct position.   The bass should have correct tonality along with proper texture and impact. Sometimes you get one and not the other, which tells me the TC needs to be repositioned. I sometimes start my listening sessions with this kind of song just to make sure.
> 
> Another phenomenon is that higher bass pitches will lose  some  rumble and "grip" compared to lower pitches. It's been mentioned in this thread a couple of times before. I think it's inherent to the TC to some degree given the lack of complete seal, but can be minimized with high quality amplification and positioning. In that sense these headphones are really similar to a 2 channel setup.  This doesn't occur at all with my other headphones.
> 
> ...


Thank you! 

Appreciate the test track suggestions. Ordered in Sept. So I've spent no small amount of time watching every video and reading every conversation about them. I've picked up a lot of good information here. Well aware that these offer a journey unlike any other headphones.

I was going to make the first song I ever listen to something profound and important, but then I've learned from AudioScienceReview that nothing is more important than how do they sound playing a test tone. 😁

Yes it was orlok (amongst others) that were the primary inspiration behind the TToby.


----------



## SuperBurrito

WafflesID said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Appreciate the test track suggestions. Ordered in Sept. So I've spent no small amount of time watching every video and reading every conversation about them. I've picked up a lot of good information here. Well aware that these offer a journey unlike any other headphones.
> 
> ...


Congrats on the headphones.
Ttoby is an awesome headphone amp.  With the TCs it makes the soundstage even wider.
I would not be surprised if the ttoby is better than many headphone only amps, even those that cost more than the ttoby.  And the ttoby can drive speakers very well too, which is crazy since it is so tiny.


----------



## rangerid

WafflesID said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Appreciate the test track suggestions. Ordered in Sept. So I've spent no small amount of time watching every video and reading every conversation about them. I've picked up a lot of good information here. Well aware that these offer a journey unlike any other headphones.
> 
> ...


Gratz on the TCs! Took me like 6 months to find a fit that tuned the headphones to my liking, mainly because I never spent much time playing with them. I'd def recommend listening to different pad/frame positions a few days each to see what you like best.


----------



## You Kay

This may have been asked before but I couldn’t find it. 

Could somebody please list the models of the 1266 in order of release and changes made?


----------



## WafflesID

You Kay said:


> This may have been asked before but I couldn’t find it.
> 
> Could somebody please list the models of the 1266 in order of release and changes made?


I'm Probably doing this wrong.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-15154209

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-15154210


----------



## Womaz

Ok so today I finally ordered the Niimbus US5 Pro and the Qutest to drive my 1266 TCs. I have been lucky that my dealer has offered me a free return if I am not satisfied with the purchase so I am pleased with this arrangement.
The Qutest would not have been my first choice but I had a limited budget for the DAC . Thanks for all of the advice given on here.


----------



## You Kay

Anybody using a speaker amp with these headphones. What’s the wattage bracket I should look for? Also impedance matching etc?


----------



## WaveTheory

I just posted a review of the 1266 TC on my YT channel:



Enjoy!


----------



## Womaz

Listen to the bass on this track on the 1266......jeez


----------



## littlej0e (Nov 4, 2021)

Womaz said:


> Listen to the bass on this track on the 1266......jeez


Whoa... You aren't kidding. The mid bass especially is nuts. Really satisfying.


----------



## WafflesID

You Kay said:


> Anybody using a speaker amp with these headphones. What’s the wattage bracket I should look for? Also impedance matching etc?


if you plan on using a tube amp then you should definitely use something like this:
https://www.zynsonix.com/Deluxe-Speaker-Amp-to-Headphone-Converter-Box_p_54.html
@HiGHFLYiN9 can help with suggestions.

I just got my TToby today and I'm currently just running it directly off the speaker posts for now.


----------



## WafflesID

It doesn't matter how many times you can read and hear about how important the fit is with these, it doesn't prepare you for how much the fit can alter the sound.  Wow.


----------



## paradoxper

littlej0e said:


> Whoa... You aren't kidding. The mid bass especially is nuts. Really satisfying.


These tracks are donky. Love it.


----------



## Frankie D

WaveTheory said:


> I just posted a review of the 1266 TC on my YT channel:
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy!



Is that the latest 1266?  Sounds like it might be one level back?


----------



## WafflesID

OMG I think i just got the sweat spot.  I'm never moving again. door dash gonna have to deliver to my basement because i'm not taking these off and risk losing it.  Toe out, 3 and 10.  tiiiiny bit of pressure on my temple. little gap near my jaw.  wow.


----------



## paradoxper

WafflesID said:


> OMG I think i just got the sweat spot.  I'm never moving again. door dash gonna have to deliver to my basement because i'm not taking these off and risk losing it.  Toe out, 3 and 10.  tiiiiny bit of pressure on my temple. little gap near my jaw.  wow.


Yup. Toe-out is the key though.


----------



## jlbrach

yes, I have switched to 3/9 and feel the same way


----------



## WafflesID

WELL that does it, now I'm wondering how much my SU-9 is holding me back.  I'm toast aren't I?  This is how it begins


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Yup. Toe-out is the key though.


Orientated which way? When they are on your head, are the arms angled forward or to the back of your head?


----------



## Ciggavelli (Nov 4, 2021)

WafflesID said:


> OMG I think i just got the sweat spot.  I'm never moving again. door dash gonna have to deliver to my basement because i'm not taking these off and risk losing it.  Toe out, 3 and 10.  tiiiiny bit of pressure on my temple. little gap near my jaw.  wow.


That’s the exact same fit I use. That little bit of pressure with the pads on the temples keeps the L/R balance perfect too. And, that bass. Subwoofers in your ear 

However, like @paradoxper has said, that leads to the “TC effect,” where all other headphones sound bass-lite. It’s worth that effect though in my mind, but yeah, it really does ruin other headphones’ bass, in comparison 🤷‍♂️


----------



## joseph69

Just picture car wheels in your mind.


----------



## WafflesID

ken6217 said:


> Orientated which way? When they are on your head, are the arms angled forward or to the back of your head?


angled towards the back.  Like an arrow on top of your head pointing at your face


----------



## ken6217

I have them angled forward so that they front of the pads are pushed closer to my temples.


----------



## WafflesID

Ciggavelli said:


> That’s the exact same fit I use. That little bit of pressure with the pads on the temples keeps the L/R balance perfect too. And, that bass. Subwoofers in your ear
> 
> However, like @paradoxper has said, that leads to the “TC effect,” where all other headphones sound bass-lite. It’s worth that effect though in my mind, but yeah, it really does ruin other headphones’ bass, in comparison 🤷‍♂️


I'm still getting a bit of a echo type sound, like if you cup your hands over your mouth and talk.  Not nearly as strong now though. At this point I'm wondering how much is equipment/electrical/everything else.


----------



## Ciggavelli

WafflesID said:


> I'm still getting a bit of a echo type sound, like if you cup your hands over your mouth and talk.  Not nearly as strong now though. At this point I'm wondering how much is equipment/electrical/everything else.


I get that too if I toe out too much. It’s a fine line, but worth the effort to find that perfect fit.


----------



## DJJEZ

Ciggavelli said:


> That’s the exact same fit I use. That little bit of pressure with the pads on the temples keeps the L/R balance perfect too. And, that bass. Subwoofers in your ear
> 
> However, like @paradoxper has said, that leads to the “TC _*effect,” where all other headphones sound bass-lite. It’s worth that effect though in my mind, but yeah, it really does ruin other headphones’ bass, in comparison 🤷‍♂️*_


They have ruined every other headphone for me lol


----------



## WafflesID

Ciggavelli said:


> I get that too if I toe out too much. It’s a fine line, but worth the effort to find that perfect fit.


I just gotta laugh at anyone who tries to measure these


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Orientated which way? When they are on your head, are the arms angled forward or to the back of your head?


It's compounded. 1-3 o'clock works well with toe-out (to the back of your head) because you open porting towards the front while the earpads couple more to the underside of your ears providing improved comfort.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> That’s the exact same fit I use. That little bit of pressure with the pads on the temples keeps the L/R balance perfect too. And, that bass. Subwoofers in your ear
> 
> However, like @paradoxper has said, that leads to the “TC effect,” where all other headphones sound bass-lite. It’s worth that effect though in my mind, but yeah, it really does ruin other headphones’ bass, in comparison 🤷‍♂️


TC is king, baby!


----------



## cangle

Womaz said:


> Listen to the bass on this track on the 1266......jeez


This is a fun track but its showing the limitations of a dac that I'm using temporarily while the electricity in my house is going on and off due to construction. The dac I am using at the moment is a Rotel RDD 1580. It's fine but the bass extension and texture is not as good as the Pontus and I'm sure there's way more to find with respect to bass in nicer dacs. Can definitely see how if the extension and texture was a bit more clear that this would be an excellent track


----------



## ken6217

To me, it's uncomfortable with the pads against my head behind my ears. I do hear more bass that way, but toed in (angled towards my temples) I find more tonal richness.

This is looking at the front of the headphones and at the seams facing forward as well. I experiment from 1:00 - 3:00.


----------



## WaveTheory

Frankie D said:


> Is that the latest 1266?  Sounds like it might be one level back?


I'm not sure what 'one level back' means in this context. The owner's card in the box calls it the 1266 Phi TC. Isn't that the latest?


----------



## ufospls2

WaveTheory said:


> I'm not sure what 'one level back' means in this context. The owner's card in the box calls it the 1266 Phi TC. Isn't that the latest?


That is the latest, yes.


----------



## joseph69

Again, this is a simple way to remember toe in/toe out.


----------



## ken6217

joseph69 said:


> Again, this is a simple way to remember toe in/toe out.


Toe in is what I use. Unless I have my pads on backwards (thicker part towards the back), it seems odd to put the part of the pad which is thicker, even closer to your head and move the thinner part (front) further away from thr temple. 

I heard different bass, not necessarily more or better bass with toe out, but at the expense of a complete richer sound.


----------



## genefruit

ken6217 said:


> To me, it's uncomfortable with the pads against my head behind my ears. I do hear more bass that way, but toed in (angled towards my temples) I find more tonal richness.
> 
> This is looking at the front of the headphones and at the seams facing forward as well. I experiment from 1:00 - 3:00.


Concur.  Stage collapsed for me as well and brought vocals too far forward.  I'll stay with toe in, 3-9 but I'm glad I gave it a try.  The flexibility of fitting is the beauty and the mess.


----------



## WafflesID

I still can't quite get rid of that "paper towel tube" sound.  Makes some stuff like Queen really hard to listen to.


----------



## cangle

joseph69 said:


> Again, this is a simple way to remember toe in/toe out.


Thanks for the graphic, I was getting confused so that's very helpful. I use mostly toe out myself as I like the pressure behind my ears since it helps keep the headphones still if I move my head around a bit. I haven't played around with toe-in much as I found the pressure on my temples uncomfortable but will have to try it again. I think putting the headband in the widest position and trying toe in from there might reduce some of the discomfort I had found with toe in previously.


----------



## Frankie D

WaveTheory said:


> I'm not sure what 'one level back' means in this context. The owner's card in the box calls it the 1266 Phi TC. Isn't that the latest?


Yes, that is the latest.  Tks.


----------



## ken6217

genefruit said:


> Concur.  Stage collapsed for me as well and brought vocals too far forward.  I'll stay with toe in, 3-9 but I'm glad I gave it a try.  The flexibility of fitting is the beauty and the mess.


There is no real soundstage with this positioning  for me.


----------



## genefruit

ken6217 said:


> There is no real soundstage with this positioning  for me.



No stage with them toed in with the seams at 3 & 9?  What do you run them at?


----------



## ken6217 (Nov 5, 2021)

genefruit said:


> No stage with them toed in with the seams at 3 & 9?  What do you run them at?


I’m saying if they’re towed out there is no soundstage to speak of. I listen to them with the seams at three and nine, and towed in. I do also listen at 11 and one, and two and 10, but all the headphones towed in.


----------



## WafflesID

Whats the biggest way to improve the mids? SC cable (currently have deluxe cable)? DAC? Power cables and conditioners?  I understand how all of this can play a part but I'm hoping to know what the first thing to focus on.


----------



## Darkliner

WafflesID said:


> Whats the biggest way to improve the mids? SC cable (currently have deluxe cable)? DAC? Power cables and conditioners?  I understand how all of this can play a part but I'm hoping to know what the first thing to focus on.


Among the things you listed, I would say a DAC would play a large part in improving the mids.


----------



## Slim1970

Darkliner said:


> Among the things you listed, I would say a DAC would play a large part in improving the mids.


Agreed, the DAC/Amp combo is your best bet for improving the mids. For the price of the SC cable you can get a nice R2R DAC or tube amp that suits your needs.


----------



## ken6217

Slim1970 said:


> Agreed, the DAC/Amp combo is your best bet for improving the mids. *For the price of the SC cable you can get a nice R2R DAC or tube amp* that suits your needs.


Where are you shopping? Kmart?


----------



## MatW (Nov 5, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> Where are you shopping? Kmart?


For 3k you can buy a feliks euforia, a denafrips ares II, and keep some change... The SC is ludicrously expensive. (I own all three..😊, but the SC is way overpriced IMHO).


----------



## Slim1970

ken6217 said:


> Where are you shopping? Kmart?


You don’t have to break the bank for good sound. Let’s be real here. There are some nice pieces of gear you can get for the price of the the super conductor cable.


----------



## ken6217

MatW said:


> For 3k you can buy a feliks euforia, a denafrips ares II, and keep some change... The SC is ludicrously expensive. (I own all three..😊, but the SC is way overpriced IMHO).


Super conductor cable is 2K, not 3K. For 30K I could buy another Harley, but a SC cable is still 2K.

The conversation was not is the SC expensive. Who’s to say what anything is worth? What something is worth is what you’re willing to pay for it.


----------



## jlbrach

ken6217 said:


> Super conductor cable is 2K, not 3K. For 30K I could buy another Harley, but a SC cable is still 2K.
> 
> The conversation was not is the SC expensive. Who’s to say what anything is worth? What something is worth is what you’re willing to pay for it.


spot on, all this stuff is worth whatever people will pay for it and nobody forces anyone to buy anything..if you think it is too expensive simply buy something else


----------



## DJJEZ

if you have a good relationship with your dealer or know the right dealer you can get the SC cable quite a bit cheaper as well lol


----------



## MatW

ken6217 said:


> Super conductor cable is 2K, not 3K. For 30K I could buy another Harley, but a SC cable is still 2K.
> 
> The conversation was not is the SC expensive. Who’s to say what anything is worth? What something is worth is what you’re willing to pay for it.


1.8 meters costs 3k. In euros. Your point was you couldn't buy much for that money unless you went to k mart lol..


----------



## ken6217

MatW said:


> 1.8 meters costs 3k. In euros. Your point was you couldn't buy much for that money unless you went to k mart lol..


My point is that is US$2,000. I can’t picture what tube amp and DAC you can get for $2000 that will sound great.


----------



## WafflesID

Maybe I just need to let these burn in.


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> Where are you shopping? Kmart?


Doubt it since they've all but closed. I don't think they sold DACs or headphone amps besides. 


WafflesID said:


> Maybe I just need to let these burn in.


IME these don't need a ton of burn in. I didn't detect any significant change with either the CC or the TC. The mids are the mids. For around 2k I'm sure you could get a decent DAC if you look on the used market. Not so sure about a tube amp. All depends on your budget and tastes obviously.


----------



## qboogie (Nov 6, 2021)

joseph69 said:


> Again, this is a simple way to remember toe in/toe out.
> 
> 
> joseph69 said:
> ...


Thanks for the graphic. I assume the term "Toe-in" is a slight nod to when a person's feet are "pigeon-toed." Cute.


----------



## WafflesID

tholt said:


> Doubt it since they've all but closed. I don't think they sold DACs or headphone amps besides.
> 
> IME these don't need a ton of burn in. I didn't detect any significant change with either the CC or the TC. The mids are the mids. For around 2k I'm sure you could get a decent DAC if you look on the used market. Not so sure about a tube amp. All depends on your budget and tastes obviously.


That's what I'm afraid of.  I've just about pulled the trigger on a holoaudio spring 3 level 3, but Im not sure that's really going to do it


----------



## ken6217

WafflesID said:


> That's what I'm afraid of.  I've just about pulled the trigger on a holoaudio spring 3 level 3, but Im not sure that's really going to do it


Whatever you buy, buy used. You’ll get more for your dollar. A lot more.


----------



## tholt

WafflesID said:


> That's what I'm afraid of.  I've just about pulled the trigger on a holoaudio spring 3 level 3, but Im not sure that's really going to do it



If you're using either the 789 or the A90 in your sig, I would look there first. Those are just exacerbating what you're likely hearing.


----------



## joseph69

ken6217 said:


> For 30K I could buy another Harley


And the one you currently own is?


----------



## WafflesID

tholt said:


> If you're using either the 789 or the A90 in your sig, I would look there first. Those are just exacerbating what you're likely hearing.


neither.  SU-9 directly into the Chord TToby.  SU-9 isn't the greatest but would it really be this bad?  As a side note, I also tried my Fiio M15, which amazingly could power the 1266.  Even tried the M15 with a 4mm to RCA into the TToby in Line-out mode, but I still have major issues with midrange sounding like my ears are cupped (but not all frequencies), no matter what kind of fit or orientation.  its not too bad with some songs, but it can really make others completely unlistenable to me.


----------



## ken6217

joseph69 said:


> And the one you currently own is?



I have 3. 
2008 Ducati Streetfighter
2016 BMW R1200 RT
2020 Harley Davidson Road Glide


----------



## WafflesID

oh no, maybe it's me.  Even my trusty Aryas are sounding tinny and shouty. maybe just need to take a week off.


----------



## cangle

Been playing with toe-in and I do like what I'm hearing. I definitely get a more in front sound whereas with a toe out I think the stage felt a bit wider but the singer could sometimes sound more behind or to the sides then in the front. Pads are still roughly at 3 and 9 and with the toe-in maxed I get a bit too much pressure on my temples but with it slightly less then max it's comfortable. Bass is about the same or maybe a bit less depending on the amount of toe-out I used. But, I still get a gap close to my jaw with it toed-in or out so bass is similar


----------



## joseph69

ken6217 said:


> I have 3.
> 2008 Ducati Streetfighter
> 2016 BMW R1200 RT
> 2020 Harley Davidson Road Glide


Very nice!
Fire Red Pearl & Black Pearl '07 Springer Classic
Imperial Blue Metallic '19 BMW K1600B


----------



## ken6217

WafflesID said:


> oh no, maybe it's me.  Even my trusty Aryas are sounding tinny and shouty. maybe just need to take a week off.


Sometimes that’s a good idea.


----------



## ken6217

joseph69 said:


> Very nice!
> Fire Red Pearl & Black Pearl '07 Springer Classic
> Imperial Blue Metallic '19 BMW K1600B


Nice. I had a ‘95 Springer. I also got a 2012 K1600GT when it first came out. I was on the waiting list. That engine was so smooth and powerful. I had it for a little more than a year and decided I missed the Boxer engine of the RT. Something about it I Ioved.


----------



## Bonddam

Yes biggest thing of the TC is bass which only dynamics can give you a close taste if it's right type like Fostex TH900. Only other planar within proximity is my Modded T50rp. Crappy thing with the TC is that bass can shift to one side if not placed correctly or just moving out of the equal point. EDM is the easiest music to hear this happen. For me I was lucky on my newest pair that the ear pads are fully circular on the inside making turning the pad so the thicker part is on the bottom this gives the gap of about hair all around better and producing better bass. The other pads I had where more oval inside so turning only caused my ears to get squished as i tuned and made it uncomfortable to use. I thought Abyss changed the pads but Joe said they didn't. 

So because of this bass of the TC is so addictive and not attainable on other planar headphones I'm more attracted to dynamics, but feel planar is cooler being it is more unusual driver type if you grew up on cone speakers. 

I have the pads currently positioned with the stitch at 2 and 10 position with tiny tow towards the front of my face. Still have to sit without leaning to either side. I can slouch forward or lay straight back in my couch. 

I'm curious how much difference we hear between each other being my fit isn't going to work the same for you as my head is round.


----------



## WafflesID

ken6217 said:


> Sometimes that’s a good idea.


I think it's both, but I put the A90 back in and the Aryas started sounding better, so I put the 1266s on the A90 and yup, sounding better i think, not nearly as shouty.  But yeah I'm definitely getting some tinniness in my hearing. better take a break either way.  And rethink everything.


----------



## ken6217

WafflesID said:


> I think it's both, but I put the A90 back in and the Aryas started sounding better, so I put the 1266s on the A90 and yup, sounding better i think, not nearly as shouty.  But yeah I'm definitely getting some tinniness in my hearing. better take a break either way.  And rethink everything.


I haven’t looked back too far, but if you haven’t experimented with moving the pads with the seams in different places, positioning the arms toed in, out, or straight, and moving the pads closer or further from your head, do so. All of these different things will totally change the sound one way or another. As dramatic as if it were another headphone.


----------



## Bonddam

WafflesID said:


> I think it's both, but I put the A90 back in and the Aryas started sounding better, so I put the 1266s on the A90 and yup, sounding better i think, not nearly as shouty.  But yeah I'm definitely getting some tinniness in my hearing. better take a break either way.  And rethink everything.


What where you using instead of the A90?


----------



## WafflesID

Bonddam said:


> What where you using instead of the A90?


My SU-9 going straight into the Chord TToby with xlr.  SU-9 handling the volume control.


----------



## WafflesID

ken6217 said:


> I haven’t looked back too far, but if you haven’t experimented with moving the pads with the seams in different places, positioning the arms toed in, out, or straight, and moving the pads closer or further from your head, do so. All of these different things will totally change the sound one way or another. As dramatic as if it were another headphone.


I've been playing with all kinds of configurations.  It is amazing how different it can sound. That's both neat and a PITA.


----------



## WafflesID

WafflesID said:


> My SU-9 going straight into the Chord TToby with xlr.  SU-9 handling the volume control.


to my defense, i was never intending the SU-9 to be a permanent solution, just until i paid off the 1266 and the chord ttoby.  Thinking the TToby was a mistake.  Now I might have to just go with the xiaudio FS+PM as a starting over point and figure out the DAC later.


----------



## cangle

WafflesID said:


> to my defense, i was never intending the SU-9 to be a permanent solution, just until i paid off the 1266 and the chord ttoby.  Thinking the TToby was a mistake.  Now I might have to just go with the xiaudio FS+PM as a starting over point and figure out the DAC later.


I would just stick with the su9 and ttoby for a week or so then go back to what you used to use and see what you think. Switching gear quickly can get confusing, at least that's been my experience with trying a bunch of different things at a time


----------



## Axel

You keep mentioning the bass quantity (and quality?) of the TC’s.
Bass is nice, however, bass in headphones is a bit artificial as you really don’t feel it, that’s the huge advantage of a speakers system.
Headphones should excel in tonality, transparency and detail retrieval.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Axel said:


> You keep mentioning the bass quantity (and quality?) of the TC’s.
> Bass is nice, however, bass in headphones is a bit artificial as you really don’t feel it, that’s the huge advantage of a speakers system.
> Headphones should excel in tonality, transparency and detail retrieval.


You can definitely feel TC bass. It has the best approximation of sub-woofers in headphones, period. Until you hear it, it’s hard to describe, but once you do, it’s a new paradigm in headphone capability.


----------



## DJJEZ




----------



## Gavin C4

When will be the highly teased new abyss product launching? Will we be seeing it in 2021?


----------



## ken6217

Axel said:


> You keep mentioning the bass quantity (and quality?) of the TC’s.
> Bass is nice, however, bass in headphones is a bit artificial as you really don’t feel it, that’s the huge advantage of a speakers system.
> Headphones should excel in tonality, transparency and detail retrieval.


Do you have a TC? If you did, then you know you can feel it too.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> You can definitely feel TC bass. It has the best approximation of sub-woofers in headphones, period. Until you hear it, it’s hard to describe, but once you do, it’s a new paradigm in headphone capability.


A new paradigm is exactly right. Took this STAX boy and ruined him. LOL


----------



## Bonddam

Axel said:


> You keep mentioning the bass quantity (and quality?) of the TC’s.
> Bass is nice, however, bass in headphones is a bit artificial as you really don’t feel it, that’s the huge advantage of a speakers system.
> Headphones should excel in tonality, transparency and detail retrieval.


It depends on music if you are a die hard edm listener then bass is artificial to begin with. I love the bass on heavy acoustic music. I never noticed artificial bass listening to movie soundtracks. I feel more depth is added. I listen to headphones because it's private and when I listen to my 2 channel I get yelled at.


----------



## Axel

Bonddam said:


> It depends on music if you are a die hard edm listener then bass is artificial to begin with. I love the bass on heavy acoustic music. I never noticed artificial bass listening to movie soundtracks. I feel more depth is added. I listen to headphones because it's private and when I listen to my 2 channel I get yelled at.


I didn’t say that it wouldn’t have more depth or details, as a matter of fact I’m sure it will, as it is easier for a headphone to reproduce these frequencies without any room interaction.
But listen to your beloved track on this thread “Cradle to the Grave” on a good speakers system and your guts will turn upside down.
It’s a totally different experience.
Unless you have a headphone with a 15 inch driver, you won’t experience this.


----------



## Bonddam (Nov 6, 2021)

No not saying headphones are better only stating I can't get the enjoyment out of speakers. My wife and kids don't like loud music. My favorite types of speakers are bi polar and folded horn designs. I get told to lower the volume on my headphones that's how bad it is.


----------



## WafflesID

Axel said:


> I didn’t say that it wouldn’t have more depth or details, as a matter of fact I’m sure it will, as it is easier for a headphone to reproduce these frequencies without any room interaction.
> But listen to your beloved track on this thread “Cradle to the Grave” on a good speakers system and your guts will turn upside down.
> It’s a totally different experience.
> Unless you have a headphone with a 15 inch driver, you won’t experience this.


literally no one is arguing otherwise?


----------



## WafflesID

OK so I've been running the 1266s off my SU-9 -> A90 combo and I'm not getting any weird midrange wackiness i was getting with the TToby.  Just nice and smooth.  Was getting pretty nervous there for a bit.  Going to get a FS+PM and work from there. 

The Topping A90 is ridiculous for the price.  I mean sure I'm almost certainly not getting everything out of the 1266 with it, but I'm getting a LOT out of it.


----------



## Darkliner

WafflesID said:


> OK so I've been running the 1266s off my SU-9 -> A90 combo and I'm not getting any weird midrange wackiness i was getting with the TToby.  Just nice and smooth.  Was getting pretty nervous there for a bit.  Going to get a FS+PM and work from there.
> 
> The Topping A90 is ridiculous for the price.  I mean sure I'm almost certainly not getting everything out of the 1266 with it, but I'm getting a LOT out of it.


Consider a wa33, its a fantastic amp for abyss tc.


----------



## qboogie

Bonddam said:


> Yes biggest thing of the TC is bass which only dynamics can give you a close taste if it's right type like Fostex TH900. Only other planar within proximity is my Modded T50rp. Crappy thing with the TC is that bass can shift to one side if not placed correctly or just moving out of the equal point. EDM is the easiest music to hear this happen. For me I was lucky on my newest pair that the ear pads are fully circular on the inside making turning the pad so the thicker part is on the bottom this gives the gap of about hair all around better and producing better bass. The other pads I had where more oval inside so turning only caused my ears to get squished as i tuned and made it uncomfortable to use. I thought Abyss changed the pads but Joe said they didn't.
> 
> So because of this bass of the TC is so addictive and not attainable on other planar headphones I'm more attracted to dynamics, but feel planar is cooler being it is more unusual driver type if you grew up on cone speakers.
> 
> ...


How did you get those  earpads with circular interior?


----------



## Bonddam

WafflesID said:


> OK so I've been running the 1266s off my SU-9 -> A90 combo and I'm not getting any weird midrange wackiness i was getting with the TToby.  Just nice and smooth.  Was getting pretty nervous there for a bit.  Going to get a FS+PM and work from there.
> 
> The Topping A90 is ridiculous for the price.  I mean sure I'm almost certainly not getting everything out of the 1266 with it, but I'm getting a LOT out of it.



Don't forget about the other amp brands. XI is solid choice. Its not important but it's non balanced which I like more. You may want to check out the Wells Audio Dragon level 3 if you're looking at that price range. Dragon utilizes current of 1 amp and 5 watts so it's stronger amp. Mainly you'll see milli amps of current. Amp is dead silent with super efficient headphones. The gains are different and if your home has noise there's 4 types of grounding. It's hybrid with option of 12bh7 or 6992. The 5 watts is not really it's power output to figure that out you have to do math. If it was 5 watts the Susvara wouldn't sound good on it. It does take up some space.


----------



## PortableAudioLover

Broadway for sale if folks are interested


----------



## PhilipB

Hi guys, I had the chance to try out the AB-1266 Phi TC today, along with a load of other high-end headphones. I was there to try out the Ferrum Oor for use with my Susvara, and ended up buying one along with the Hypsos. To cut a long story short, I thought the 1266 sounded incredible - the stage, the bass, the transparency... If the Susvara is an angel, the 1266 is devil. I can't stop thinking about it, simply because out of everything I've tried, it seems to actually do something to set itself meaningfully apart from other headphones. It was the sort of sound signature I'd expect from speakers, not from headphones.

My only issue was that I did not find them comfortable at all, although I put them on as I found them, and didn't adjust them to fit my head in any way. Are these headphones going to be significantly more comfortable after I've adjusted them to fit me? If so, I'm going to have to seriously think about how I can get a pair.


----------



## ra990

PhilipB said:


> Hi guys, I had the chance to try out the AB-1266 Phi TC today, along with a load of other high-end headphones. I was there to try out the Ferrum Oor for use with my Susvara, and ended up buying one along with the Hypsos. To cut a long story short, I thought the 1266 sounded incredible - the stage, the bass, the transparency... If the Susvara is an angel, the 1266 is devil. I can't stop thinking about it, simply because out of everything I've tried, it seems to actually do something to set itself meaningfully apart from other headphones. It was the sort of sound signature I'd expect from speakers, not from headphones.
> 
> My only issue was that I did not find them comfortable at all, although I put them on as I found them, and didn't adjust them to fit my head in any way. Are these headphones going to be significantly more comfortable after I've adjusted them to fit me? If so, I'm going to have to seriously think about how I can get a pair.


It takes a good 10 minutes initially to put them on and get the setting right. You go through tweaking it for a day or two and by day 3 you've got the fit dialed in and it's very comfortable. That was my experience and others have had a similar one with the fit.


----------



## Womaz

PhilipB said:


> Hi guys, I had the chance to try out the AB-1266 Phi TC today, along with a load of other high-end headphones. I was there to try out the Ferrum Oor for use with my Susvara, and ended up buying one along with the Hypsos. To cut a long story short, I thought the 1266 sounded incredible - the stage, the bass, the transparency... If the Susvara is an angel, the 1266 is devil. I can't stop thinking about it, simply because out of everything I've tried, it seems to actually do something to set itself meaningfully apart from other headphones. It was the sort of sound signature I'd expect from speakers, not from headphones.
> 
> My only issue was that I did not find them comfortable at all, although I put them on as I found them, and didn't adjust them to fit my head in any way. Are these headphones going to be significantly more comfortable after I've adjusted them to fit me? If so, I'm going to have to seriously think about how I can get a pair.


In a word yes! You just have to look at this thread to see how many of us struggled initially with the fit etc . But god they are worth persisting with


----------



## ufospls2 (Nov 6, 2021)

Gavin C4 said:


> When will be the highly teased new abyss product launching? Will we be seeing it in 2021?



I'm guessing we might see it for NYC Can Jam in Feb 2022. Its at the end of Feb.

Abyss is NY state based, so that sort of made sense in my mind.

Of course, I guess it depends on how the final development and tuning is going for them, as well as the global supply shortages : )


----------



## DJJEZ

PhilipB said:


> Hi guys, I had the chance to try out the AB-1266 Phi TC today, along with a load of other high-end headphones. I was there to try out the Ferrum Oor for use with my Susvara, and ended up buying one along with the Hypsos. To cut a long story short, I thought the 1266 sounded incredible - the stage, the bass, the transparency... If the Susvara is an angel, the 1266 is devil. I can't stop thinking about it, simply because out of everything I've tried, it seems to actually do something to set itself meaningfully apart from other headphones. It was the sort of sound signature I'd expect from speakers, not from headphones.
> 
> My only issue was that I did not find them comfortable at all, although I put them on as I found them, and didn't adjust them to fit my head in any way. Are these headphones going to be significantly more comfortable after I've adjusted them to fit me? If so, I'm going to have to seriously think about how I can get a pair.


Takes time to find the perfect fit as you have to try multiple earpad positions plus different toe ins but when you do finally get it right it's


----------



## lamsta (Nov 7, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> I thought I would follow up about the 1266TC super conductor cable that I recently purchased. This is hands down the most expensive audio cable I have purchased but I managed to get it for a great price. I went for the 2.4m/8 foot version as my setup is part of my home cinema and needed the length. I'm currently using a formula S/powerman with Dave and M-Scaler
> 
> Joe from Abyss recommends 70 hours burn in and I've got 150 hours on the cable so far. I let it burn in for 96 hours straight (while I was sleeping) while listening around 6 hours every night as well.
> 
> ...


Hi there,

Was there a specific reason why you didn’t opt for the dual 3pin XLR and chose the 4pin XLR instead?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Nov 7, 2021)

lamsta said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Was there a specific reason why you didn’t opt for the dual 3pin XLR and chose the 4pin XLR instead?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Not to answer for @DJJEZ , but here are my thoughts:

I have the dual 3 pin XLR and had the Formula S and now Wa33, but listened to the 4 pin xlr and if there is a difference - I can’t here it. Also, if you want to connect to an amp without dual 3 pin - you have to use an adapter which (sort of ) defeats the purpose of having the best connection possible. Last, I imagine the 4 pin has higher resale value.

I think the dual 3 pin is a marginally nicer cable because you get two of those beautiful furutech XLRs instead of one - eliminate the possibility of cable crosstalk - but practically, I think the 4 pin cable makes a lot more sense - and you're not giving up anything from a sound quality perspective.


----------



## Drewligarchy

If people have the dual 3 pin SPC, I got this beautiful furutech dual 3 pin to 4 pin adapter cable built by drew at Moon Audio:


----------



## Drewligarchy

PhilipB said:


> Hi guys, I had the chance to try out the AB-1266 Phi TC today, along with a load of other high-end headphones. I was there to try out the Ferrum Oor for use with my Susvara, and ended up buying one along with the Hypsos. To cut a long story short, I thought the 1266 sounded incredible - the stage, the bass, the transparency... If the Susvara is an angel, the 1266 is devil. I can't stop thinking about it, simply because out of everything I've tried, it seems to actually do something to set itself meaningfully apart from other headphones. It was the sort of sound signature I'd expect from speakers, not from headphones.
> 
> My only issue was that I did not find them comfortable at all, although I put them on as I found them, and didn't adjust them to fit my head in any way. Are these headphones going to be significantly more comfortable after I've adjusted them to fit me? If so, I'm going to have to seriously think about how I can get a pair.



Yes. I have had them for a few years and comfort is not an issue at all. I got adjusted to the old headband, but the new headband is better - and that much more comfortable.


----------



## Drewligarchy

paradoxper said:


> A new paradigm is exactly right. Took this STAX boy and ruined him. LOL



Me too. Once I heard the Abyss TC at Canjam, I sold my 009 and Carbon and bought an Abyss set up - and @paradoxper had the KG DIY T2, the holy grail electrostat amp. So if he got an Abyss, you know they are doing something right.

I was very close to getting a DIY T2 commissioned by Kerry, who is an excellent builder. But, the Abyss ruined me as well.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Nov 7, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> spot on, all this stuff is worth whatever people will pay for it and nobody forces anyone to buy anything..if you think it is too expensive simply buy something else



The SC cable made the biggest difference of any cable I have ever tried, whether headphone, interconnect, or otherwise. It is expensive. But, it does make a significant improvement. Do I wish it was less expensive? Yes - it definitely is a lot for a cable. But if you have an Abyss centric system, I think you are going to eventually get it, because of how good it is. Others may disagree - but I had it on trial twice with the Cable Company before I got it. I will say the strength of it's effects are amp dependent. It had more of an impact on my Formula S than on my Wa33. But that is either because the Formula S is single ended, or they built it to somehow be more affected by the SC cable. I like it better on my Wa33 - because on the Formula S it was almost like too much of a good thing in my setup (though I still prefer it to the stock cable on the formula s). But this is strictly IMO, and DACs and other components are going to predicate how well it synergizes with your system.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

WafflesID said:


> OK so I've been running the 1266s off my SU-9 -> A90 combo and I'm not getting any weird midrange wackiness i was getting with the TToby.  Just nice and smooth.  Was getting pretty nervous there for a bit.  Going to get a FS+PM and work from there.
> 
> The Topping A90 is ridiculous for the price.  I mean sure I'm almost certainly not getting everything out of the 1266 with it, but I'm getting a LOT out of it.



Personally, for XIAudio stacks, Sagra is the one that "shape" the organic midrange on AB1266. Formula S + Powerman is kind of neutral and transparent set of signal amplifier.

Your choice of path may produce nice result, but at the other perspective, could be Sagra + TToby are what you need.

Agree that A90 hold freaking high value.


----------



## lamsta

Drewligarchy said:


> Not to answer for @DJJEZ , but here are my thoughts:
> 
> I have the dual 3 pin XLR and had the Formula S and now Wa33, but listened to the 4 pin xlr and if there is a difference - I can’t here it. Also, if you want to connect to an amp without dual 3 pin - you have to use an adapter which (sort of ) defeats the purpose of having the best connection possible. Last, I imagine the 4 pin has higher resale value.
> 
> I think the dual 3 pin is a marginally nicer cable because you get two of those beautiful furutech XLRs instead of one - eliminate the possibility of cable crosstalk - but practically, I think the 4 pin cable makes a lot more sense - and you're not giving up anything from a sound quality perspective.



Thanks Drewligarchy, really appreciate your reply. 

Most of the pictures I see of the Abyss and Formula S amp, I see them being paired using the dual 3 pin XLR. Which leads me to believe that the dual 3 pin is the better of the two options.

But, what makes it somewhat more confusing is that the Abyss video states that the XIAudio (Eleven Audio) is single ended internally. So do you think there is a benefit to using the dual 3 pin XLR over the single 4pin on the Abyss?

FYI - I own the XIAudio stack along with the Abyss 1266 Phi TC

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Drewligarchy

lamsta said:


> Thanks Drewligarchy, really appreciate your reply.
> 
> Most of the pictures I see of the Abyss and Formula S amp, I see them being paired using the dual 3 pin XLR. Which leads me to believe that the dual 3 pin is the better of the two options.
> 
> ...



Formula S is a single ended amp - so the balanced outputs, both the 4 pin XLR and dual 3 pin are there strictly for convenience. That said, theoretically, there is some benefit to separating left and right channels with the dual 3 pin, not because they are balanced (they're not), but you are eliminating any possibility of crosstalk. And, it looks cooler. That said, I can't hear a difference - and I doubt most could.


----------



## WafflesID

Drewligarchy said:


> Formula S is a single ended amp - so the balanced outputs, both the 4 pin XLR and dual 3 pin are there strictly for convenience. That said, theoretically, there is some benefit to separating left and right channels with the dual 3 pin, not because they are balanced (they're not), but you are eliminating any possibility of crosstalk. And, it looks cooler. That said, I can't hear a difference - and I doubt most could.


Someone else briefly mentioned this, but does this fully single ended design make a fully discrete DAC like the Holo audio may less useful?  Will there still be a benefit of the may over the spring 3 on the fs+pm?


----------



## WafflesID

TheMiddleSky said:


> Personally, for XIAudio stacks, Sagra is the one that "shape" the organic midrange on AB1266. Formula S + Powerman is kind of neutral and transparent set of signal amplifier.
> 
> Your choice of path may produce nice result, but at the other perspective, could be Sagra + TToby are what you need.
> 
> Agree that A90 hold freaking high value.


Having a hard time considering the Sagra over a Spring 3 or even the May for a little bit more.


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Nov 7, 2021)

WafflesID said:


> Someone else briefly mentioned this, but does this fully single ended design make a fully discrete DAC like the Holo audio may less useful?  Will there still be a benefit of the may over the spring 3 on the fs+pm?



The answer is supposed to be YES.

My last "experiment" was test Topping D30Pro (Balance DAC) into A30Pro (Single ended Amp) using XLR and RCA, to see if the difference is there.

People may argue about sound quality, but none of them can argue about the real voltage advantage from XLR. The differences in loudness is significant (XLR out from balance DAC push twice more voltage). If XLR does send more voltage, it's suppose to deliver better crosstalk as well (affect soundstage and separation).

Edit: I assume your question is regarding balance dac feed the single ended amp



WafflesID said:


> Having a hard time considering the Sagra over a Spring 3 or even the May for a little bit more.



Nah, I never heard them, but I bet they also great products.


----------



## ken6217 (Nov 7, 2021)

Drewligarchy said:


> The SC cable made the biggest difference of any cable I have ever tried, whether headphone, interconnect, or otherwise. It is expensive. But, it does make a significant improvement. Do I wish it was less expensive? Yes - it definitely is a lot for a cable. But if you have an Abyss centric system, I think you are going to eventually get it, because of how good it is. Others may disagree - but I had it on trial twice with the Cable Company before I got it. I will say the strength of it's effects are amp dependent. It had more of an impact on my Formula S than on my Wa33. But that is either because the Formula S is single ended, or they built it to somehow be more affected by the SC cable. I like it better on my Wa33 - because on the Formula S it was almost like too much of a good thing in my setup (though I still prefer it to the stock cable on the formula s). But this is strictly IMO, and DACs and other components are going to predicate how well it synergizes with your system.


I bought my TC with the super conductor cable, I had never heard any other headphone cable with it. This week I was able to listen to the stock cable as well as the Norne Silvergarde cable, and the super conductor cable is vastly better sounding.


----------



## DJJEZ

lamsta said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Was there a specific reason why you didn’t opt for the dual 3pin XLR and chose the 4pin XLR instead?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


so i could use the cable with mulitple amps otherwise i would be limited to dual 3 pin XLR amps.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Nov 7, 2021)

WafflesID said:


> Someone else briefly mentioned this, but does this fully single ended design make a fully discrete DAC like the Holo audio may less useful?  Will there still be a benefit of the may over the spring 3 on the fs+pm?



It’s not because the DAC is discrete, but a balanced dac works better with a balanced amp, and a single ended dac works better with a single ended amp. At least theoretically and for different reasons. I haven’t experienced dramatic differences - but as in most cases it depends on the gear.

For a single ended example - take the Chord Dave. Better to connect via RCA to single ended amp, because the signal has to go through an additional gain stage in the dac to convert it to balanced. That said, I happily use it via XLR to my Woo Wa33, because the amp is fully balanced, push-pull, and it sounds great.

Balanced may yield better results regarding SNR, but with most digital gear it’s so low - it shouldn’t be audible. Balanced connections prevent noise from long cable runs. However the voltage a signal ended dac puts out should be plenty to maintain an excellent SNR.


----------



## WafflesID

WELL, so I guess burn-in (mental and otherwise) is absolutely confirmed.  
The TC on the TToby was damn near unlistenable, but today I hooked it back up and everything sounds absolutely amazing.  I do have the ttoby plugged directly into the wall now, instead of a powerstrip with everything else.  I may try some comparisons later, but right now I just wanna enjoy 
🤷‍♂️


----------



## ken6217

WafflesID said:


> WELL, so I guess burn-in (mental and otherwise) is absolutely confirmed.
> The TC on the TToby was damn near unlistenable, but today I hooked it back up and everything sounds absolutely amazing.  I do have the ttoby plugged directly into the wall now, instead of a powerstrip with everything else.  I may try some comparisons later, but right now I just wanna enjoy
> 🤷‍♂️


As they say in the movie, the number one rule of Break-In Club, is we don’t talk about Break-In.


----------



## WafflesID

Gonna have to give this a try on my Fiio M15 again, take this show on the road


----------



## cangle

lamsta said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Was there a specific reason why you didn’t opt for the dual 3pin XLR and chose the 4pin XLR instead?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I asked Abyss about the dual 3pin vs 4pin for the SC cable and they said: "The Superconductor cable could care less about dual 3 pin or 4 pin XLR when it comes to sound quality. Most opt for the 4 pin since it’s so universal, negates the need for a Y adaptor."

I have a Norne Drausk currently but will likely pick up the SC cable once the funds are available.


----------



## Bonddam

I just want to put it out there I solved the bass from moving to different sides by making the correct fitment. The problem was too much vibration from the bass. The headphone now sits with the pads having equal gap even though technically the leather touches my skin it's basically a weak seal so if it was a water pipe it would be spraying out. I placed the seam on the front of the pad at first screw on the outside of the cups. also slight bend out nothing huge. So if I look down they will fall off if my ears where not there. Best part it sounds like what has been described.


----------



## Bonddam (Nov 7, 2021)

cangle said:


> I asked Abyss about the dual 3pin vs 4pin for the SC cable and they said: "The Superconductor cable could care less about dual 3 pin or 4 pin XLR when it comes to sound quality. Most opt for the 4 pin since it’s so universal, negates the need for a Y adaptor."
> 
> I have a Norne Drausk currently but will likely pick up the SC cable once the funds are available.


basically the importance comes down to the fact the Super Conductor is 16 gauge wire. Might be overkill but is true when amount of wattage needed to power the headphone. I remember I tested a 4 gauge power cable from my car battery and saw my system was suffocating and when I switch back to 0 gauge the system was in perfect health. Now if you don't like the sound of copper with aluminum then silver, copper or mix is the next choice. For me I don't pick up difference in cables but having SC is more statement rather then quality. My mind tells me it's better being made for the 1266. I did hear the power difference with the SC cable which improved the sound as a whole. I know it's not logical to by on that merit but more is better. This is true when I tell my customers they don't need a gig of speed because they will never use it but you are told from a kid more money is better more of everything was engraved into our minds. Scientist will say that is bad way of looking at life but you can't teach an old dog new tricks as they say.


----------



## qboogie

Drewligarchy said:


> Not to answer for @DJJEZ , but here are my thoughts:
> 
> I have the dual 3 pin XLR and had the Formula S and now Wa33, but listened to the 4 pin xlr and if there is a difference - I can’t here it. Also, if you want to connect to an amp without dual 3 pin - you have to use an adapter which (sort of ) defeats the purpose of having the best connection possible. Last, I imagine the 4 pin has higher resale value.
> 
> I think the dual 3 pin is a marginally nicer cable because you get two of those beautiful furutech XLRs instead of one - eliminate the possibility of cable crosstalk - but practically, I think the 4 pin cable makes a lot more sense - and you're not giving up anything from a sound quality perspective.


I have a SC cable in dual 3-pin XLR too. This allowed me to listen via the rear XLR on the Hugo TT2 using short plug adapters instead of cable adapters. 

Sometimes, I will plug one channel into the TT2 and the OTHER into the Formula S just for kicks.


----------



## DJJEZ (Nov 7, 2021)

Never seen a pic of one of these before so thought I would show My buddy's Chord TT2 rear XLR super conductor cable made by Abyss


----------



## WafflesID

qboogie said:


> Sometimes, I will plug one channel into the TT2 and the OTHER into the Formula S just for kicks.


Now that's an A/B test.


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> I just want to put it out there I solved the bass from moving to different sides by making the correct fitment. The problem was too much vibration from the bass. The headphone now sits with the pads having equal gap even though technically the leather touches my skin it's basically a weak seal so if it was a water pipe it would be spraying out. I placed the seam on the front of the pad at first screw on the outside of the cups. also slight bend out nothing huge. So if I look down they will fall off if my ears where not there. Best part it sounds like what has been described.


Do you know what Tupperware  and a walrus have in common? They both like a tight Seal.


----------



## qboogie

WafflesID said:


> Now that's an A/B test.


Yeah I'll be playing the left channel signal out of both cups. It is an interesting way to A/B the amps. I'm assuming I have equivalent bilateral hearing acuity


----------



## WafflesID

qboogie said:


> I'm assuming I have equivalent bilateral hearing acuity


Just flip the headphones around.


----------



## qboogie

DJJEZ said:


> Never seen a pic of one of these before so thought I would show My buddy's Chord TT2 rear XLR super conductor cable made by Abyss


They charge a grand for that.


----------



## MasterZen




----------



## SuperBurrito

ken6217 said:


> Nice. I had a ‘95 Springer. I also got a 2012 K1600GT when it first came out. I was on the waiting list. That engine was so smooth and powerful. I had it for a little more than a year and decided I missed the Boxer engine of the RT. Something about it I Ioved.


Nice bikes all around.  I don't ride right now, but my last ride was a K1200S.  Before that, VFR800.  Did some trackdays as well, and one time had a ride around the track on the back of a bike while an AMA pro was doing the driving.  That was bonkers to say the least!


----------



## SuperBurrito

PhilipB said:


> Hi guys, I had the chance to try out the AB-1266 Phi TC today, along with a load of other high-end headphones. I was there to try out the Ferrum Oor for use with my Susvara, and ended up buying one along with the Hypsos. To cut a long story short, I thought the 1266 sounded incredible - the stage, the bass, the transparency... If the Susvara is an angel, the 1266 is devil. I can't stop thinking about it, simply because out of everything I've tried, it seems to actually do something to set itself meaningfully apart from other headphones. It was the sort of sound signature I'd expect from speakers, not from headphones.
> 
> My only issue was that I did not find them comfortable at all, although I put them on as I found them, and didn't adjust them to fit my head in any way. Are these headphones going to be significantly more comfortable after I've adjusted them to fit me? If so, I'm going to have to seriously think about how I can get a pair.


The fit for me is tolerable at best, even after 6 months of trying everything.  Guess I just have an odd head because most people here seem very happy.

But even with the weight and fit issues, the TCs sound so amazing for rock and EDM so I haven't sold them.  Really awesome sound.


----------



## Bonddam

I bought the adapter from Singapore to use with my 4 pin mini xlr headphones. The adapters look and feel high quality. It's a bonus to use on more then one headphone.


----------



## lamsta

Drewligarchy said:


> Formula S is a single ended amp - so the balanced outputs, both the 4 pin XLR and dual 3 pin are there strictly for convenience. That said, theoretically, there is some benefit to separating left and right channels with the dual 3 pin, not because they are balanced (they're not), but you are eliminating any possibility of crosstalk. And, it looks cooler. That said, I can't hear a difference - and I doubt most could.



Would you think that choosing the dual 3 pin option is a good future proofing decision or is it negligible even with fully balanced components?


----------



## Bonddam

lamsta said:


> Would you think that choosing the dual 3 pin option is a good future proofing decision or is it negligible even with fully balanced components?


I had the 3 pin. You are limited to amplifiers. The 3 pins looks better but I don’t hear a difference.


----------



## lamsta

Bonddam said:


> I had the 3 pin. You are limited to amplifiers. The 3 pins looks better but I don’t hear a difference.



Thanks Bonddam, but it’s still possible to get the Y adapter to convert to single 4 pin, right?


----------



## Bonddam

See if you can get a custom one from Joe so you keep the 16 gauge wire at the beginning. Like the one the person had for Chord TT2.


----------



## lamsta (Nov 8, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> Never seen a pic of one of these before so thought I would show My buddy's Chord TT2 rear XLR super conductor cable made by Abyss



Pardon my ignorance, why is the single side of the Y connection, female and not male?


----------



## ken6217

SuperBurrito said:


> Nice bikes all around.  I don't ride right now, but my last ride was a K1200S.  Before that, VFR800.  Did some trackdays as well, and one time had a ride around the track on the back of a bike while an AMA pro was doing the driving.  That was bonkers to say the least!


I liked the K1200 and K1300. The K1600 but end to these, but they really weren’t really even the same platform. I was going to go to VF our 1200 for all I had that year was a red, white, and blue model, and I didn’t care for that.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Nov 8, 2021)

lamsta said:


> Would you think that choosing the dual 3 pin option is a good future proofing decision or is it negligible even with fully balanced components?



Negligible. Like I said, it's mainly a looks thing (IMO). I would get it based on what you are going to use it the most with now. If that's one amp with dual 3 pin then you can opt for that. If you'd prefer the flexibility of 4 pin xlr, or have mutliple amps you will/plan on using it with, get that one.

Ultimately, whichever way you go - you can get an adapter to connect it to anything you want anyway. I like the full furutech adapters from Moon Audio for $400 - though you can get something much cheaper as well without those connectors. It's not a sound thing - I just think the quality is excellent, and worth it at that price. The JPS Labs adapter is $1000 (based on what another head-fier indicated above), which you could get if you are a purist - but I think probably unnecessary from a sound quality perspective (thought the same could be said for the moon audio adapters). I'm willing to pay $400 for a high-end Furutech adapter but not $1,000 . IMO, having the SC in the chain is most important; having a tiny bit of different cable in an adapter makes little difference.


----------



## Drewligarchy

lamsta said:


> Pardon my ignorance, why is the single side of the Y connection, female and not male?



Because 4 pin XLR headphone cables are male. So you plug into that, and then plug into the dual XLRs on the back of the TT2.


----------



## ken6217

Drewligarchy said:


> Negligible. Like I said, it's mainly a looks thing (IMO). I would get it based on what you are going to use it the most with now. If that's one amp with dual 3 pin then you can opt for that. If you'd prefer the flexibility of 4 pin xlr, or have mutliple amps you will/plan on using it with, get that one.
> 
> Ultimately, whichever way you go - you can get an adapter to connect it to anything you want anyway. I like the full furutech adapters from Moon Audio for $400 - though you can get something much cheaper as well without those connectors. It's not a sound thing - I just think the quality is excellent, and worth it at that price. The JPS Labs adapter is $1000 (based on what another head-fier indicated above), which you could get if you are a purist - but I think probably unnecessary from a sound quality perspective (thought the same could be said for the moon audio adapters). I'm willing to pay $400 for a high-end Furutech adapter but not $1,000 . IMO, having the SC in the chain is most important; having a tiny bit of different cable in an adapter makes little difference.


You’ll always lose something with an adapter, even if it’s slight.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Nov 8, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> You’ll always lose something with an adapter, even if it’s slight.



I agree - but I can't hear it with high quality adapters. For me, using it with a secondary amp is a compromise I'm willing to make. I probably wouldn't use it with my primary amp, for that reason.


----------



## ken6217

Drewligarchy said:


> I agree - but I can't hear it with high quality adapters. For me, using it with a secondary amp is a compromise I'm willing to make.


I would agree that the gain would outweigh any negatives.


----------



## qboogie

Just a friendly reminder to *register your 1266 cans within 90 days of purchase to qualify for the 3-year warranty,* which is opt-in only.


----------



## qboogie

Bonddam said:


> I bought the adapter from Singapore to use with my 4 pin mini xlr headphones. The adapters look and feel high quality. It's a bonus to use on more then one headphone.


I have the same adapters from Affinity adapters that lets me use the SC cable with my other cans. I haven't gotten around to using them yet. Do you think it brings the same qualities out of your other cans, @Bonddam ? Interested in your thoughts.


----------



## Bonddam

qboogie said:


> I have the same adapters from Affinity adapters that lets me use the SC cable with my other cans. I haven't gotten around to using them yet. Do you think it brings the same qualities out of your other cans, @Bonddam ? Interested in your thoughts.


It could be snake oil. I don't listen to anything that would tell me it isn't. I like the stock Abyss cable on my Meze Elite. I'm not using the SC as there's more weight pulling down and maybe the weight will do nothing but I'm testing the waters on that assumption. It feels better with the split at the amp connection.


----------



## Slim1970

Bonddam said:


> It could be snake oil. I don't listen to anything that would tell me it isn't. I like the stock Abyss cable on my Meze Elite. I'm not using the SC as there's more weight pulling down and maybe the weight will do nothing but I'm testing the waters on that assumption. It feels better with the split at the amp connection.


Isn't the pin configuration slightly different on the Abyss headphone? I didn't think the Abyss cable would work on Meze or Audeze headphones. I like the idea though.


----------



## ufospls2

Slim1970 said:


> Isn't the pin configuration slightly different on the Abyss headphone? I didn't think the Abyss cable would work on Meze or Audeze headphones. I like the idea though.



Abyss 1266 is 3pin mini XLR, Empyrean and Elite are 4pin mini XLR. You would need an adapter of some sort.


----------



## qboogie

Slim1970 said:


> Isn't the pin configuration slightly different on the Abyss headphone? I didn't think the Abyss cable would work on Meze or Audeze headphones. I like the idea though.


Hence the adapter plug from Singapore that Bonddam and I referred to previously


----------



## Slim1970

qboogie said:


> Hence the adapter plug from Singapore that Bonddam and I referred to previously


I must of missed this one. Can you PM me the details, thanks!


----------



## ufospls2

Slim1970 said:


> I must of missed this one. Can you PM me the details, thanks!



They are a bit pricy for what they are, but here is the one mentioned. They make all sorts of variations. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174685774234?hash=item28ac15619a:g:rSIAAOSwcMNgUG~D


----------



## Slim1970

ufospls2 said:


> They are a bit pricy for what they are, but here is the one mentioned. They make all sorts of variations.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/174685774234?hash=item28ac15619a:g:rSIAAOSwcMNgUG~D


Thanks


----------



## qboogie

Slim1970 said:


> Thanks


I probably will be selling my pair of adapters if anyone is interested (letting you use Abyss cables with various mini-XLR cans) Shipping from Affinity  in Singapore takes about a month, so you could skip that. PM me


----------



## jaykap35

Try the woo audio wa33 jps with the 1266 .  That’s a entirely different level .  Blows me away every time I listen to mine


----------



## qboogie

jaykap35 said:


> Try the woo audio wa33 jps with the 1266 .  That’s a entirely different level .  Blows me away every time I listen to mine


It must be breezy up there at the summit.


----------



## jaykap35

qboogie said:


> It must be breezy up there at the summit.


No clue what you mean but ok


----------



## qboogie (Nov 9, 2021)

Sorry, let me be more literal. You have gear that I could  only dream about owning one day, and I am just admiring. That's the figurative summit of the journey through personal audio in search of musical truth. To use the dreaded E- word ... 

 "endgame"


----------



## ken6217

jaykap35 said:


> No clue what you mean but ok


There’s also a Summit hifi forum on Heaf Fi


----------



## jaykap35

Hahah ohh man my bad bro, I’m just acting cautious because earlier some guy demanded i take a sale ad down , because it would ruin the reputation of a product that has problems .  But thank you .  I’m very happy with it took a while to accomplish


----------



## ken6217

jaykap35 said:


> Hahah ohh man my bad bro, I’m just acting cautious because earlier some guy demanded i take a sale ad down , because it would ruin the reputation of a product that has problems .  But thank you .  I’m very happy with it took a while to accomplish


Oh. Do tell.


----------



## sahmen

qboogie said:


> Just a friendly reminder to *register your 1266 cans within 90 days of purchase to qualify for the 3-year warranty,* which is opt-in only.


Glad I read this today, and applied.  My 90-day deadline is November 10th, so go figure! I really didn't know about this 90-day limit until I read this, and I just popped into this forum by chance today.  By the way, just to be sure, the serial number is the one on the baffle underneath on of the ear pad where all the "Total Consciousness" and "Ceramic Coated" bragging rights are stated, right? It is the only number I found anywhere on the unit itself which looks like a serial number.  Anyway, the registration application was accepted, and I received a confirmation e-mail of its receipt, so I suppose no immediate red flags were detected.


----------



## WafflesID

jaykap35 said:


> No clue what you mean but ok


You've reached the peak.


----------



## Drewligarchy

qboogie said:


> I probably will be selling my pair of adapters if anyone is interested (letting you use Abyss cables with various mini-XLR cans) Shipping from Affinity  in Singapore takes about a month, so you could skip that. PM me



Which adapters do you have? I'd be interested in Abyss to Audeze.


----------



## ajaipuriyar




----------



## paradoxper

ajaipuriyar said:


>


who the **** is following their Twitter. LOL. 

Monday booked.


----------



## Sajid Amit

ajaipuriyar said:


>


Super Diana?


----------



## ajaipuriyar

paradoxper said:


> who the **** is following their Twitter. LOL.
> 
> Monday booked.


Guilty 🙂


----------



## ajaipuriyar

Sajid Amit said:


> Super Diana?


The rumours are also strong for a closed back pair.


----------



## jaykap35

Most likely a closed back abyss


----------



## dudeX

In one of their recent videos they also said they're working on a IEM. Or did I mishear?


----------



## paradoxper

dudeX said:


> In one of their recent videos they also said they're working on a IEM. Or did I mishear?


In years of release.


----------



## DJJEZ

I really hope it's the closed back


----------



## You Kay

I know what it is. It’s their closed back headphone


----------



## briantrinh86

Please don't release newer ab1266. My wallet need a rest.


----------



## deuter

A new flagship would be cool.
Bigger drivers and the midrange bumped forward.


----------



## MasterZen

Diana Phi V2  I bet


----------



## ken6217

I was privy to the release, and probably shouldn’t say something but I will. It’s not a headphone. It’s their new cable line. The SDC headphone cable.


----------



## ken6217

SuperDuperConductor Cable.


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> SuperDuperConductor Cable.


Awesome. Been waiting for the Duper version


----------



## vonBaron

Only 6666$


----------



## briantrinh86

new superdumber conductor...


----------



## JLoud

vonBaron said:


> Only 6666$


But it will totally be worth it. Trust me "the Devils in the details."


----------



## normie610

briantrinh86 said:


> Please don't release newer ab1266. My wallet need a rest.


Yeah, not a newer TC please. I’m still (im)patiently waiting for mine to show up 😪


----------



## deuter

normie610 said:


> Yeah, not a newer TC please. I’m still (im)patiently waiting for mine to show up 😪


We need a new flagship, its been a long time since 1266.


----------



## WafflesID

So yeah, burn in has DRASTICALLY changed the sound of these.  I was always on the fence about how much of a change burn in really makes to headphones, but this was unbelievable.

These things are AMAZING.


----------



## Stereolab42

deuter said:


> We need a new flagship, its been a long time since 1266.


No, the TC is a very different animal and it's not been a long time.


----------



## Sajid Amit

jaykap35 said:


> Most likely a closed back abyss


My bet is on a spruced up Diana, called the Diana TC. More resolving, leather headband, lambskin ear pads, etc. 

Of course, this is still conjecture. 🙂


----------



## Ciggavelli

It’s gotta be a Diana Closed, but what does Res Evolved mean?  

Resolution evolved, meaning higher resolution headphones, which doesn’t make sense on a closed back with the same drivers. 

A new flagship?  I think it’s a bad time for a completely new pair of headphones given all the recent flagships being released. It might just get lost in the pack. 

An IEM could make sense in having higher resolution than other IEMs, and being a new “evolved” form for Abyss


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> It’s gotta be a Diana Closed, but what does Res Evolved mean?
> 
> Resolution evolved, meaning higher resolution headphones, which doesn’t make sense on a closed back with the same drivers.
> 
> ...


A flagship from Abyss would get lost in the pack? Come now. 

I could just see them sitting there brain storming a new headphone, and saying should we come out with a new flagship? Nah, bad Idea. Too many ones out there and no way we will be as good as those and stand out. Let’s just hold up the white flag.

I couldn’t find a head scratching emoji.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> It’s gotta be a Diana Closed, but what does Res Evolved mean?
> 
> Resolution evolved, meaning higher resolution headphones, which doesn’t make sense on a closed back with the same drivers.
> 
> ...


It's a Diana TC. I have my order in. TC still reigns and will be incredibly difficult to improve upon.


----------



## WafflesID

Sajid Amit said:


> My bet is on a spruced up Diana, called the Diana TC. More resolving, leather headband, lambskin ear pads, etc.
> 
> Of course, this is still conjecture. 🙂


You already have one for reviewing don't you....


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> A flagship from Abyss would get lost in the pack? Come now.
> 
> I could just see them sitting there brain storming a new headphone, and saying should we come out with a new flagship? Nah, bad Idea. Too many ones out there and no way we will be as good as those and stand out. Let’s just hold up the white flag.
> 
> I couldn’t find a head scratching emoji.


I’m not saying never release a new flagship. I’m just saying this may not the best time to strategically release it. Two completely different things


----------



## Undun

Sajid Amit said:


> My bet is on a spruced up Diana, called the Diana TC. More resolving, leather headband, lambskin ear pads, etc.
> 
> Of course, this is still conjecture. 🙂


Hopefully the price isn't spruced up too  .


----------



## PhazeCrive

It's the AB2193 TC, obviously.


----------



## jlbrach

with all the new releases is anything thought to be better than the TC, susvara or sr1a?...doubtful


----------



## DJJEZ

I honestly don't think it will be a new 1266tc successor, I can't see that happening for a few more years. My money is on an abyss closed back or super charged diana


----------



## 13cashewnuts (Nov 10, 2021)

If it's a high-sensitivity, closed back Abyss, take my money please...


----------



## Sajid Amit

WafflesID said:


> You already have one for reviewing don't you....


No, not yet, already have a backlog that I am getting no time to do. 🙂


----------



## Arion128

It is not a abyss 1266 phi tc as I asked that question before buying my TC. Currently burning in my phi tc that I got on Saturday. Yes they are working on 2 things from what I remember and it was a closed back or an IEM. Regardless what it might be, it should still be good. Lets hope that the price is decent so that more consumers can own one.


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> I’m not saying never release a new flagship. I’m just saying this may not the best time to strategically release it. Two completely different things


I understood what you meant the first time. I was just saying if you’re a company putting out great products, or even if you don’t put out great products, if you feel strongly about what you’re putting out, you don’t worry about the competition. That’s not a winners mentality


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> with all the new releases is anything thought to be better than the TC, susvara or sr1a?...doubtful


I finally listened to the Susvara last week. I now have confirmation that I can put $5000 into motorcycle upgrades.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> I understood what you meant the first time. I was just saying if you’re a company putting out great products, or even if you don’t put out great products, if you feel strongly about what you’re putting out, you don’t worry about the competition. That’s not a winners mentality


Nods. It's always surprising to hear competitors don't listen to each other's products as reference.

You end up with products like Abyss and STAX but also crap like Meze or DCA.

I'm happy to buy the good stuff.

Shrugs.


----------



## SuperBurrito

Stereolab42 said:


> No, the TC is a very different animal and it's not been a long time.


On one of Abyss' videos, Joe mentioned they were developing headphones he referred to as "the big guy"
Sounds like it would be a totally new headphone, above the 1266 TC.  I sure hope so.


----------



## ken6217

SuperBurrito said:


> On one of Abyss' videos, Joe mentioned they were developing headphones he referred to as "the big guy"
> Sounds like it would be a totally new headphone, above the 1266 TC.  I sure hope so.


Big guy? Maybe a B&W 801 strapped to one’s head?


----------



## vonBaron

SuperBurrito said:


> On one of Abyss' videos, Joe mentioned they were developing headphones he referred to as "the big guy"
> Sounds like it would be a totally new headphone, above the 1266 TC.  I sure hope so.


I sure hope not!


----------



## deuter

Iam keen to see the next leap from them, don’t want to see a sidegrade with possibly a closed back or iem.


----------



## WafflesID

SuperBurrito said:


> On one of Abyss' videos, Joe mentioned they were developing headphones he referred to as "the big guy"
> Sounds like it would be a totally new headphone, above the 1266 TC.  I sure hope so.


Joe often refers to the 1266 as "the big guy" in those videos.


----------



## PhazeCrive

I read a comment from one of their videos saying that the company would be better off releasing closed backs and iems to fund the R&D needed to craft a better flagship. Abyss favorited that comment.


----------



## JLoud

ken6217 said:


> Big guy? Maybe a B&W 801 strapped to one’s head?


Hopefully two, other wise your head is gonna be all lopsided.


----------



## paradoxper

WafflesID said:


> Joe often refers to the 1266 as "the big guy" in those videos.


The particular reference quoted was previously discussed, it is in one of their videos, they acknowledge "the big guy" as a 1266 successor and is no where near prototype development. This was likely a year ago. This new Abyss is the Diana TC though.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Why would you get a Diana TC for 4,000 dollars when you can spend 1000 more and get a permanately better headphone since they'd now be sharing the same DNA.


----------



## paradoxper

It's 4.5k MSRP first. Don't shoot the messenger.

Anyways, they speak about two product developments.


----------



## MaggotBrain (Nov 10, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> It's 4.5k MSRP first. Don't shoot the messenger.
> 
> Anyways, they speak about two product developments.



Any word if it‘s open or closed? Wondering whether it‘s time to sell my ZMF VC now before they all flood the secondhand market come Monday. If it delivers on Diana Phi level sound in that portable form factor that would be a game changer.  The VCs sound pretty good but those wood cups make them thicker than pancake batter. As it stands now I probably use my old Ultrasone 8 when I need an easy to drive closed back when I‘m messing around the house or yard - though I found out recently the ifo go blu does a half decent job of powering the Diana Phi before I sent it back to Abyss to get fixed.


----------



## paradoxper

MaggotBrain said:


> Any word if it‘s open or closed? Wondering whether it‘s time to sell my ZMF VC now before they all flood the secondhand market come Monday. If it delivers on Diana Phi level sound in that portable form factor that would be a game changer.  The VCs sound pretty good but those wood cups make them thicker than pancake batter. As it stands now I probably use my old Ultrasone 8 when I need an easy to drive closed back when I‘m messing around the house or yard - though I found out recently the ifo go blu does a half decent job of powering the Diana Phi before I sent it back to Abyss to get fixed.


I was told from a dealer they're open. The closed is to come later.

I actually placed my pre-order blind assuming it was the Diana Closed.


----------



## mitchb

I can’t imagine a better sounding headphone than the 1266 Phi TC’s.


----------



## briantrinh86

mitchb said:


> I can’t imagine a better sounding headphone than the 1266 Phi TC’s.


i don't think they will create another headphones to be on top of phi tc. there must be something like closed back or another headphone accesories . 1266 phi tc is the mighty one, can not be replaced.


----------



## MaggotBrain (Nov 10, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> I was told from a dealer they're open. The closed is to come later.
> 
> I actually placed my pre-order blind assuming it was the Diana Closed.


Open backed Diana improving on the Phi leaves little room for improvement for folks who own the TC and the Phi IMO. It’s not an indictment of the Diana - it’s just that the difference between the two (soundstage, slamming bass for the TC vs a welterweight Diana sitting on your noggin instead of a heavyweight TC) is really splitting hairs. If they can bring anything close to TC bass in a smaller form factor that would be tantalizing I must admit. The other bid improvement would be to make them easier to drive - when I want to hear the Diana Phi in anything close to its potential - I’d use a Shanling m8 tethered to Woo Wa11 topaz, and throw it in a tiny backpack because the heat from that setup in a Fanny pack would microwave my boys and leave my future fertility in question.


----------



## paradoxper (Nov 10, 2021)

MaggotBrain said:


> Open backed Diana improving on the Phi leaves little room for improvement for folks who own the TC and the Phi IMO. It’s not an indictment of the Diana - it’s just that the difference between the two (soundstage, slamming bass for the TC vs a welterweight Diana sitting on your noggin instead of a heavyweight TC) is really splitting hairs. If they can bring anything close to TC bass in a smaller form factor that would be tantalizing I must admit.


As we speculate on ultimate performance, I agree -- if the TC's share DNA within comparable driver size, and the Diana manages at under 400g, I can see the successful market for them -- more successful than the LCD-5 which I don't find, say, so ultimate performing. However, I don't anticipate the 1266 TC being fully challenged nor do I find it lacking in comfort.

But I must buy everything, unfortunately.


----------



## PeteSTRADAMUS

Well... if it's anything to do with the Diana I hope that headband can fit different sized heads. Because the Diana was awful on my head.


----------



## PhazeCrive

What did Joe mean when he said "The Big Guy" in that clip? Given how he always refers to the 1266 as that.

Diana V2 in classifieds, btw


----------



## Ciggavelli

PhazeCrive said:


> Why would you get a Diana TC for 4,000 dollars when you can spend 1000 more and get a permanately better headphone since they'd now be sharing the same DNA.


Weight and portability. If only it was a closed back though. I don’t travel enough to warrant a Diana TC, which I’d probably only use at hotels. Being open-backed means it can’t be used in a train or airplane. So, it’s a limited use scenario. But yeah, I agree with you though. If you are only listening at your house with your rig, spending the $500 or $1000 more for the 1266 TC seems like the better idea. I look forward to Diana TC reviews though.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Well said. They're _really _putting the gap on the V2 now. I feel cheated. I literally just got this thing a week ago. XD


----------



## WaveTheory

I followed up my 1266 review with a hi-end/summit-fi comparison video:



Enjoy!


----------



## Gavin C4

Well abyss has once mention that they are very close to the perfect driver after TC in a video. I do agree that there can still be improvements over the TC. Technology and engineering will always make progress. But it must be at least a few years later before a TC successor will emerge. 

The current new release must either be an IEM or a closed back that Abyss mentioned about a year ago in their videos. 

Dont worry and there is no need to put your headphones on classifieds. The headphone you love will always be that headphone. A new headphone released will not affect your enjoyment towards your previous headphone.


----------



## DJJEZ

WaveTheory said:


> I followed up my 1266 review with a hi-end/summit-fi comparison video:
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy!



Great comparison. I subscribed


----------



## Polygonhell (Nov 11, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> Weight and portability. If only it was a closed back though. I don’t travel enough to warrant a Diana TC, which I’d probably only use at hotels. Being open-backed means it can’t be used in a train or airplane. So, it’s a limited use scenario. But yeah, I agree with you though. If you are only listening at your house with your rig, spending the $500 or $1000 more for the 1266 TC seems like the better idea. I look forward to Diana TC reviews though.



I tend to agree that Diana TC is at an odd price point, difference in prices with a 1266 are going probably even smaller when you look at dealer pricing.
But I already felt that way about the Diana Phi, the V2 makes sense in the lineup because it has a somewhat different tuning, and a bit easier to drive, but if your going to buy a Diana Phi why not just spend the extra and get a 1266 Phi TC.

But I do know people who are greatly put off by the 1266 form factor, and I'll assume Abyss has more insight into their own customer base than I do.


----------



## genefruit

Since most of us are speculating, what if the Diana Phi TC does come as the new release at $4500 and the 1266 PHI TC replacement comes in at $7-8000 and the PHI TC is no longer available?  Would this situation make more sense?


----------



## Womaz

Am I the only one who could not care at all about what the new release is ?


----------



## Pashmeister

Womaz said:


> Am I the only one who could not care at all about what the new release is ?


I dont care for speculating, but I’ll decide what I feel about the new product once it’s announced,  after it has gone through some reviews, and after I’ve auditioned whatever it is


----------



## deuter

Gavin C4 said:


> Well abyss has once mention that they are very close to the perfect driver after TC in a video. I do agree that there can still be improvements over the TC. Technology and engineering will always make progress. But it must be at least a few years later before a TC successor will emerge.
> 
> The current new release must either be an IEM or a closed back that Abyss mentioned about a year ago in their videos.
> 
> Dont worry and there is no need to put your headphones on classifieds. The headphone you love will always be that headphone. A new headphone released will not affect your enjoyment towards your previous headphone.


That is tru but hard to put in practitioner and for a fine reason, if we wouldn’t crave or urge to own the TOTL we as a humanity wouldn’t evolve at the rate we are.


----------



## jlbrach

genefruit said:


> Since most of us are speculating, what if the Diana Phi TC does come as the new release at $4500 and the 1266 PHI TC replacement comes in at $7-8000 and the PHI TC is no longer available?  Would this situation make more sense?


7-8k..no way,too expensive and a no go


----------



## genefruit

jlbrach said:


> 7-8k..no way,too expensive and a no go


For some, yes but for others it's just a blink.  Plenty of headphones above this amount already including Susvara and 1266 when you price in what it takes to drive them.


----------



## jlbrach (Nov 11, 2021)

I do not think abyss would be crazy enough to attempt such a foolish thing,more likely something along the lines of the lcd-5 in terms of change in price...although there are indeed some people who have no budget the number is too small to male a living..in addition the susvara street price is no longer 6K....one can get from a dealer a susvara in the mid 4000's...no way people pay 3k more for a new abyss


----------



## ken6217 (Nov 11, 2021)

genefruit said:


> For some, yes but for others it's just a blink.  Plenty of headphones above this amount already including Susvara and 1266 when you price in what it takes to drive them.


I don’t think they would charge 7-8k, but then again, who would think anyone would spend so much on a WA33.


----------



## genefruit

ken6217 said:


> No way they would put it out at $7-8k. They’d sell a few, b
> 
> I don’t think they would charge 7-8k, but then again, who would think anyone would spend so much on a WA33.


since it's all fun in speculation, I could see a scenario where a 1266 PHI TC replacement is 7-8k.  It's 8k retail if you buy the Complete now. This isn't much of a stretch at this point.


----------



## genefruit

jlbrach said:


> I do not think abyss would be crazy enough to attempt such a foolish thing,more likely something along the lines of the lcd-5 in terms of change in price...although there are indeed some people who have no budget the number is too small to male a living..in addition the susvara street price is no longer 6K....one can get from a dealer a susvara in the mid 4000's...no way people pay 3k more for a new abyss


Street price isn't what I intended with my speculation.  Retail.  If the 1266 PHI TC replacement was a clear step above where it's at now, then 7-8k is nothing in the scheme of things.  

Ultimately, this is just my speculation and brings no value to the thread.  I'll stop now.


----------



## jlbrach

wont happen because they actually want to sell enough HP's to make a living


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> wont happen because they actually want to sell enough HP's to make a living


That’s my thinking too. Not the same thing, but I remember many years my boss saying to me, do you want to sell fast nickels, or slow dollars.


----------



## genefruit

ken6217 said:


> That’s my thinking too. Not the same thing, but I remember many years my boss saying to me, do you want to sell fast nickels, or slow dollars.


Just based on the signatures of those discussing this speculation, I don't think 2k more would have stopped any of us from buying them.


----------



## ken6217

genefruit said:


> Just based on the signatures of those discussing this speculation, I don't think 2k more would have stopped any of us from buying them.


Probably not.


----------



## jlbrach

genefruit said:


> Just based on the signatures of those discussing this speculation, I don't think 2k more would have stopped any of us from buying them.


maybe not you


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> maybe not you


Based on your signature, maybe not you either.


----------



## jlbrach

my signature or not I aint paying 7-8k for a new HP....I am nots not crazy lol


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> my signature or not I aint paying 7-8k for a new HP....I am nots not crazy lol


In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King.


----------



## Ciggavelli

jlbrach said:


> my signature or not I aint paying 7-8k for a new HP....I am nots not crazy lol


But…you have the Solitaire Ps which retail at $6400


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> But…you have the Solitaire Ps which retail at $6400


Yea but it’s not $7k or $8k.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> Yea but it’s not $7k or $8k.


Yea, but it's only a 10% increase over the Ps


----------



## cangle

I got the LCD-5 this week and have been using it about 90% of the time and 1266 for the other 10%. Thought I'd post a bit of a comparison between the two.

One of the first things I noticed when listening to the LCD-5 is how pleasant the mid range is. It's much more forward and intimate than the 1266 and it doesn't accentuate some of the vocal details like "S" sounds, lip noises, etc. that the 1266 does. 

Resolution I find is similar between the two but details in songs can be a bit more apparent on the 1266 just due to the way that it really shows you what's going on in the music. Neither headphone is forgiving of poor recordings but it will be more apparent on the 1266 that something is not right with the song.

1266 definitely has the LCD-5 beat in bass quantity. It's much more and slams harder. Also the sub bass is more pronounced on the 1266. However I think the texture is similar and depending on how the 1266 is fit and what sort of seal I'm getting the bass on the 1266 can sound somewhat boomy in comparison. However, reducing the gap between the pads and my ears reduces the boomy effect and makes the bass regions more comparable between the two in terms of texture.

Comfort I'd give to the 1266 as well since it doesn't need a seal and the clamp on the 5 is a bit strong but it's not bad at all. I'd say it's similar to the clamp on my LCD-4z which I sent back to Audeze to trade-up to the LCD-5.

I would call the presentation of the LCD-5 to be somewhat soft compared to the 1266 but not so much compared to other headphones. The 5 is smooth and not fatiguing but very resolving. The 1266 on the other hand can be sort of violent in how it delivers the music and gets me into the music more than the 5 does. I think they compliment each other nicely especially with the 5 being great at vocals and having a more relaxed sound while the 1266 is a much more fun sound but can be fatiguing depending on what I'm listening to.

I'm running them both off of the same system, the one in my signature. The only difference is that I run the LCD-5 on low gain and the 1266 on high gain.


----------



## Axel

jlbrach said:


> wont happen because they actually want to sell enough HP's to make a living


They can do whatever they want.
They could sell at $25K much less headphones thus the margin will be bigger and still make the same money, if not more.
We saw this happening in high end audio, prices are just crazy high.
Who thought that TOTL headphones would cost $5-7K ten years ago. Everyone would have told you it’s crazy money back then.
As I see it, headphones prices will continue to rise as long as people are buying.
Don’t be surprised if in a few years TOTL headphones will be in the $10K and above price range.


----------



## Stereolab42

cangle said:


> 1266 definitely has the LCD-5 beat in bass quantity. It's much more and slams harder. Also the sub bass is more pronounced on the 1266. However I think the texture is similar and depending on how the 1266 is fit and what sort of seal I'm getting the bass on the 1266 can sound somewhat boomy in comparison. However, reducing the gap between the pads and my ears reduces the boomy effect and makes the bass regions more comparable between the two in terms of texture.


That is interesting since my LCD-4 has subterranean bass that goes deeper and is roughly equal in quantity to the TC.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Nov 12, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> my signature or not I aint paying 7-8k for a new HP....I am nots not crazy lol



I agree LOL. Then in my signature… 



Axel said:


> They can do whatever they want.
> They could sell at $25K much less headphones thus the margin will be bigger and still make the same money, if not more.
> We saw this happening in high end audio, prices are just crazy high.
> Who thought that TOTL headphones would cost $5-7K ten years ago. Everyone would have told you it’s crazy money back then.
> ...



While you got a CH Precision…


----------



## Axel (Nov 12, 2021)

Gavin C4 said:


> While you got a CH Precision…


I was mentioning the general direction of this hobby.
I won’t be surprised.
It doesn’t matter what I buy or can afford to buy, that’s my own business.


----------



## cangle

Stereolab42 said:


> That is interesting since my LCD-4 has subterranean bass that goes deeper and is roughly equal in quantity to the TC.


I used the LCD-4z before the TC and before getting the 5 for about two years. I found the bass to have great slam and quantity but the texture was lacking a bit compared to what I hear on the TC. Haven't heard the 4 so not sure how the 4z compares. To my ears the TC has better extension and texture but the amount of bass is sometimes a bit less than what I remember from the 4z. Either way both are great when it comes to bass.


----------



## ken6217

Axel said:


> They can do whatever they want.
> *They could sell at $25K much less headphones thus the margin will be bigger and still make the same money, if not more*.
> We saw this happening in high end audio, prices are just crazy high.
> Who thought that TOTL headphones would cost $5-7K ten years ago. Everyone would have told you it’s crazy money back then.
> ...


Evidently you’re not in business. Your example is way too extreme and there’s no way in hell they would make the same gross margin dollars of less units at a CRAZY higher price than more units at a lower price.

Would you like to wager a bet on the over under of how many headphones they sell $25,000?


----------



## PhazeCrive

Kinda like asking for 1000 dollars per ticket to see Endgame lol. You'll always see far more profit at lower prices. The many are stronger together than the few alone.


----------



## ken6217

PhazeCrive said:


> Kinda like asking for 1000 dollars per ticket to see Endgame lol. You'll always see far more profit at lower prices. The many are stronger together than the few alone.


Not necessarily. You have to find a price that works to both satisfy volume and margin.


----------



## Axel

ken6217 said:


> Evidently you’re not in business. Your example is way too extreme and there’s no way in hell they would make the same gross margin dollars of less units at a CRAZY higher price than more units at a lower price.
> 
> Would you like to wager a bet on the over under of how many headphones they sell $25,000?


It’s an extreme example, but at double their current price with proper marketing and nice luxurious packaging and design it could be done.
I’m willing to bet that in a few years (3-5) TOTL headphones will reach and break the $10K barrier.
I remember people were astonished when the HD800 was released at a price tag of $1400.


----------



## DJJEZ (Nov 12, 2021)

Axel said:


> It’s an extreme example, but at double their current price with proper marketing and nice luxurious packaging and design it could be done.
> _*I’m willing to bet that in a few years (3-5) TOTL headphones will reach and break the $10K barrier.*_
> I remember people were astonished when the HD800 was released at a price tag of $1400.


I gotta agree. Its innevtivale its gonna happen in time. There's already quite a few at in that price range already like the valkyria and Shangri-La SR


----------



## paradoxper (Nov 12, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> I gotta agree. Its innevtivale its gonna happen in time. There's already quite a few at in that price range already like the valkyria and Shangri-La SR


Neither Valkyria nor SGL are full scale production items. I was just having this conversation with a friend, the question is really if the market will bear $10k Flagships as a new standard, and should it with technological advances and better efficacy, the gap closes too hard on entry level speakers.

I, of course, also think we're at a peak bottleneck between TC, Susvara owning planars versus 009, SGL, HE-1 owning stats providing very, very comparable performance across the board to each other until the next generation DSP evolution takes over. And then we can start bitching about how we are paying up theee ass through software implementations.


----------



## Axel

paradoxper said:


> the gap closes too hard on entry level speakers.


And why is this related? From what I’ve learned these are orthogonal.
Many headphones users do not own or intend to own a speakers-based system.
On the other hand, there are many using both (like I do) and, from your signature, it seems you are too.


----------



## paradoxper

Axel said:


> And why is this related? From what I’ve learned these are orthogonal.
> Many headphones users do not own or intend to own a speakers-based system.
> On the other hand, there are many using both (like I do) and, from your signature, it seems you are too.


It's all relative.


----------



## jlbrach (Nov 12, 2021)

Axel said:


> They can do whatever they want.
> They could sell at $25K much less headphones thus the margin will be bigger and still make the same money, if not more.
> We saw this happening in high end audio, prices are just crazy high.
> Who thought that TOTL headphones would cost $5-7K ten years ago. Everyone would have told you it’s crazy money back then.
> ...


I think you overestimate the number of people capable or willing to pay these prices...you cite 25k...I think I read that sennheiser sells something like 50 of their 50K headphone system a year..I could be wrong about that number but it is a tiny number...hifiman sells a tiny number of the amp they built for the susvara at 15k...these types of products are sold to a few people but are intended as a way to promote the company more than anything else...no, abyss would not make as much money selling a HP for 25k because there simply arent enough people to afford or want to spend that much money...there are numerous choices in the TOTL realm and they are basically all grouped in the 3-5k area with a couple of exceptions....the susvara no longer sells for 6k in the market and the solitaire p which I think is extraordinary is probably priced too high in the US market.....in the end you dont price a product based on a few people willing to spend any amount of money...there has to be a price level that will draw wide interest and for the very best HP's that seems to be 4-5k


----------



## Axel

jlbrach said:


> I think you overestimate the number of people capable or willing to pay these prices...you cite 25k...I think I read that sennheiser sells something like 50 of their 50K headphone system a year..I could be wrong about that number but it is a tiny number...hifiman sells a tiny number of the amp they built for the susvara at 15k...these types of products are sold to a few people but are intended as a way to promote the company more than anything else...no, abyss would not make as much money selling a HP for 25k because there simply arent enough people to afford or want to spend that much money...there are numerous choices in the TOTL realm and they are basically all grouped in the 3-5k area with a couple of exceptions....the susvara no longer sells for 6k in the market and the solitaire p which I think is extraordinary is probably priced too high in the US market.....in the end you dont price a product based on a few people willing to spend any amount of money...there has to be a price level that will draw wide interest and for the very best HP's that seems to be 4-5k


I think my point was missed.
Anyway, if Abyss or any other headphones company, release a $8-10K headphone, it wouldn’t surprise me, and I assure you they’d sell enough to justify it, even if you’ll decide not to add it to your current inventory.


----------



## jlbrach (Nov 12, 2021)

Axel said:


> I think my point was missed.
> Anyway, if Abyss or any other headphones company, release a $8-10K headphone, it wouldn’t surprise me, and I assure you they’d sell enough to justify it, even if you’ll decide not to add it to your current inventory.


perhaps if this HP you speak of was so dramatically better than anything else in the market..a revelation that overwhelms everything else...otherwise no....numerous TOTL have been brought to market recently and while several have been praised and complimented nothing has been introduced that overwhelms what exists...in fact  nothing has yet bested the TC or susvara or sr1a etc as far as I have heard...again, if some remarkable breakthrough occurs that enables a new HP to leapfrog everything else then perhaps you will be right but I havent yet seen it..FWIIW I am a great believer in the market determining the price of any item and if such prices can be supported in the market they will be...I however am skeptical


----------



## deuter

Axel said:


> They can do whatever they want.
> They could sell at $25K much less headphones thus the margin will be bigger and still make the same money, if not more.
> We saw this happening in high end audio, prices are just crazy high.
> Who thought that TOTL headphones would cost $5-7K ten years ago. Everyone would have told you it’s crazy money back then.
> ...


You kind of loose the value proposition by then. Because 10 K gives you crazy good speakers to a degree where you will make those changes in your life to allow for the speaker setup as it will give you that listening pleasure which headphones cannot match.


----------



## jlbrach

seems to me that HP technology has plateaued,I think the TOTL options are phenomenal and depending on your subjective likes and dislikes you might like one over the other but I do not think anyone can assert that say the abyss is head and shoulders better than the susvara etc...you can say you much prefer its sound signature and strengths for sure...I love the abyss and I love the susvara and to be honest the only HP that was something truly different for me was the sr1a which while not better is definitely distinctive and outside the box.....again, we are seeing all sorts of new releases but I have yet to see anyone suggest that the new stuff is head and shoulders better than the prevailing best


----------



## sahmen (Nov 12, 2021)

I think you guys are giving Joe and co. ideas by mentioning such insane prices... I'm almost on the point of saying "be careful what you wish for," although it strikes me that many are not necessarily dreaming of a headphone they can buy at $10K +, so what gives?

I bet y'all have heard of the "speak no evil," "hear no evil" spiel...
Okay,







Y'all see what y'all have gone and make do???


----------



## ken6217

sahmen said:


> I think you guys are giving Joe and co. ideas by mentioning such insane prices... I'm almost on the point of saying "be careful what you wish for," although it strikes me that many are not necessarily dreaming of a headphone they can buy at $10K +, so what gives?
> 
> I bet y'all have heard of the "speak no evil," "hear no evil" spiel...
> Okay,
> ...



^^^^^^
You had to ruin this thread my posting this A Hole.


----------



## sahmen

ken6217 said:


> ^^^^^^
> You had to ruin this thread my posting this A Hole.


He is?  I did not know he was, but he is easily replaced. So voilà!  Thread un-ruined, hopefully


----------



## ken6217

sahmen said:


> He is?  I did not know he was, but he is easily replaced. So voilà!  Thread un-ruined, hopefully


I might have been a bit tough on him


----------



## Pashmeister

jlbrach said:


> seems to me that HP technology has plateaued,I think the TOTL options are phenomenal and depending on your subjective likes and dislikes you might like one over the other but I do not think anyone can assert that say the abyss is head and shoulders better than the susvara etc...you can say you much prefer its sound signature and strengths for sure...I love the abyss and I love the susvara and to be honest the only HP that was something truly different for me was the sr1a which while not better is definitely distinctive and outside the box.....again, we are seeing all sorts of new releases but I have yet to see anyone suggest that the new stuff is head and shoulders better than the prevailing best


There’s still plenty of room to improve though. If not SQ, then there’s driveability, comfort, form factor. Improved technology that will allow same experience for cheaper price. Lighter weight with use of ingenious materials and better engineering. The past 5 years have seen plenty of innovation for audiophilia, I’m looking forward to watch more unfold.


----------



## jlbrach

all of that is true but has nothing to do with achieving some sort of nirvana that would justify a large jump in price...


----------



## Ciggavelli

What if we really have reached the pinnacle?  If so, I have mixed feelings. On one hand, my wallet likes the idea.  On the other hand, I still crave better sound. 

If we can’t increase resolution anymore, I guess that is almost ok. If we can’t increase bass anymore, I guess that’s okay.  If we can’t increase transient speed anymore, okay. What we don’t have is a combo of all three in one pair of headphones. And we don’t have that hypothetical amalgam that can be driven easily. And we don’t have that combo with utmost fit and comfort. 

So, maybe headphones can’t get more detailed, can’t have stronger bass quantity or quality, and can’t get faster. However, headphones can be improved by combining the best of those qualities in one pair of headphones that are comfortable and easy to drive. I’d personally pay over current TOTL prices if that pair of headphones was to exist.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Ciggavelli said:


> What if we really have reached the pinnacle?  If so, I have mixed feelings. On one hand, my wallet likes the idea.  On the other hand, I still crave better sound.
> 
> If we can’t increase resolution anymore, I guess that is almost ok. If we can’t increase bass anymore, I guess that’s okay.  If we can’t increase transient speed anymore, okay. What we don’t have is a combo of all three in one pair of headphones. And we don’t have that hypothetical amalgam that can be driven easily. And we don’t have that combo with utmost fit and comfort.
> 
> So, maybe headphones can’t get more detailed, can’t have stronger bass quantity or quality, and can’t get faster. However, headphones can be improved by combining the best of those qualities in one pair of headphones that are comfortable and easy to drive. I’d personally pay over current TOTL prices if that pair of headphones was to exist.


Don't forget about the tradeoffs. When you check one box, you sacrifice checking off other boxes. It's kinda why the LCD5 is sounding the way it does cuz of the physical properties of that driver. EQ corrects those limitations of the driver. Maybe EQ is the secret endgame.


----------



## Ciggavelli

PhazeCrive said:


> Don't forget about the tradeoffs. When you check one box, you sacrifice checking off other boxes. It's kinda why the LCD5 is sounding the way it does cuz of the physical properties of that driver. EQ corrects those limitations of the driver. Maybe EQ is the secret endgame.


I’ve thought about IEMs, which I have only a little bit of experience with. They combine different types of drivers. For example I had the Noble Audio Khan which had three different driver types. One was electrostatic and the other 2 were more traditional. Anyway, it had electrostatic speed and amazing bass with a good seal. The comfort was a problem and the soundstage could have been larger with better imagining, but it was able to combine speed with bass. Why can’t the same thing occur with traditional headphones?  Maybe they can combine different drivers in the same pair of headphones?


----------



## number1sixerfan (Nov 12, 2021)

Technology will always prevail (this has been proven historically in this hobby over and over again). TOTL headphones will certainly improve eventually, just not overnight. At the $2-5k or so street price range, I don't anticipate we'll see substantial gains over say the TC/Susvara/Sr1a/009 for quite some time. Just different flavors with possibly, incremental improvement here and there.

The SGL already improves upon a lot of what all of those do imho (although not astronomical leaps), but assuming the HE-1 likely does as well.. and still would love to hear the Valkyrie. Although at an ultra premium price and not ridiculously huge performance gains, these definitely signal that we're certainly not a ceiling. Someone will find the right tech improvement to scalability/price ratio and performance will increase as always, again just slowly. Sure, the improvement at that level doesn't just totally trump the TOTL in the more affordable category I mentioned, but that's irrelevant as price to performance isn't a linear relationship in Summit Fi (and the higher up you go, the higher the premium for incremental gain). So the same could be said for the TC, Susvara, etc compared to lower category TOTL headphones (Utopia, VC and even lower, etc) as well.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Ciggavelli said:


> I’ve thought about IEMs, which I have only a little bit of experience with. They combine different types of drivers. For example I had the Noble Audio Khan which had three different driver types. One was electrostatic and the other 2 were more traditional. Anyway, it had electrostatic speed and amazing bass with a good seal. The comfort was a problem and the soundstage could have been larger with better imagining, but it was able to combine speed with bass. Why can’t the same thing occur with traditional headphones?  Maybe they can combine different drivers in the same pair of headphones?


Yeah, I put a lengthy comment on one of Abyss's videos saying that I do see the benefit of multiple drivers in a headphone. Of course there will be problems like phase distortion and overlapping frequency bands, the space and weight of the crossovers, but it's not impossible to remedy. It's just no one wants to sit down for years and figure it out AND then see how it all sounds in a headphone frame that has resonances and sounds of its own. Having multiple different drivers sound the same would be a new challenege altogether. Electrostat sounds like an electrostat, and dynamic driver sounds like a dynamic. Putting them together in a headphone and making them seem "as one" could be a stretch. It may be easier to use multiple types of the same driver instead so that one driver isn't overtasked with the full frequency spectrum, yet would sound much the same together.

IEMs also have that bone coduction driver thing going for them which allows for hearing above 20khz, actually. Dare I say endgame there. XD The eardrum is too stiff to respond to frequencies above 20khz. Having a 100khz estat isn't really going to do anything if it can't move your eardrum at all. But a bone conductor would let you hear that.


----------



## Ciggavelli

PhazeCrive said:


> Yeah, I put a lengthy comment on one of Abyss's videos saying that I do see the benefit of multiple drivers in a headphone. Of course there will be problems like phase distortion and overlapping frequency bands, the space and weight of the crossovers, but it's not impossible to remedy. It's just no one wants to sit down for years and figure it out AND then see how it all sounds in a headphone frame that has resonances and sounds of its own. Having multiple different drivers sound the same would be a new challenege altogether. Electrostat sounds like an electrostat, and dynamic driver sounds like a dynamic. Putting them together in a headphone and making them seem "as one" could be a stretch. It may be easier to use multiple types of the same driver instead so that one driver isn't overtasked with the full frequency spectrum, yet would sound much the same together.
> 
> IEMs also have that bone coduction driver thing going for them which allows for hearing above 20khz, actually. Dare I say endgame there. XD The eardrum is too stiff to respond to frequencies above 20khz. Having a 100khz estat isn't really going to do anything if it can't move your eardrum at all. But a bone conductor would let you hear that.


Maybe I need to look into IEMs again and figure out how to get better fit or maybe go with a CIEM. I will do some research. I know some IEMs are like $6K now, so maybe there have been advancements since I had the Noble Audio Khan that warrant that crazy price. It’s gotta be comfortable though. I could only wear the Khan’s for like an hour before they became  too uncomfortable to keep in.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Ah yes, can't wait for the quinbrid 10k iem flagship. 😉


----------



## Axel

number1sixerfan said:


> Technology will always prevail (this has been proven historically in this hobby over and over again).





number1sixerfan said:


> Someone will find the right tech improvement to scalability/price ratio and performance will increase as always, again just slowly.


Sure, technology gives you better software and precision tools, but does technology provide better sound? I’m not sure.

See the Orpheus system, which was released 30 years ago. Was it really surprassed sound-wise? Has technology made better sounding e-stats? Or the Stax Omega that people swear upon (haven’t heard it).
Is the HD800 better sounding than the HD650? Yes, it’s more detailed and with a bigger soundstage, but does it sound better? I’m not sure.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Nov 13, 2021)

Axel said:


> Sure, technology gives you better software and precision tools, but does technology provide better sound? I’m not sure.
> 
> See the Orpheus system, which was released 30 years ago. Was it really surprassed sound-wise? Has technology made better sounding e-stats? Or the Stax Omega that people swear upon (haven’t heard it).
> Is the HD800 better sounding than the HD650? Yes, it’s more detailed and with a bigger soundstage, but does it sound better? I’m not sure.



I would say the sound is easily better across the board, now compared to then. And the HD800 to HD650 comparison is a great example. The HD800 is easily better technically and overall, when no one at the time thought the HD600/650 could be bested (again, for that generally affordable price range at the time). Yet to some people that won't be the case, it's still all subjective to a degree. And now the HD800 imho pales in comparison to anything TOTL (in a generally affordable range) now. I've had them alongside the TC/Susvara, each quite a bit better.. over time technology always wins. Pricing trends however, are the real question.

As far as the Orpheus, that was a premium product that will easily stand the test of time better than others due to being more advanced at their time of release. There are a few others similar in that regard. But most of them from that time are outclassed in many aspects now, although still nostalgic for many of us. (MDR-R10, Qualia, L3000, K1000, etc)


----------



## Arion128

Unboxing of a Lite Abyss 1266


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> I’ve thought about IEMs, which I have only a little bit of experience with. They combine different types of drivers. For example I had the Noble Audio Khan which had three different driver types. One was electrostatic and the other 2 were more traditional. Anyway, it had electrostatic speed and amazing bass with a good seal. The comfort was a problem and the soundstage could have been larger with better imagining, but it was able to combine speed with bass. Why can’t the same thing occur with traditional headphones?  Maybe they can combine different drivers in the same pair of headphones?


Are yours Universal or custom? Unless you have custom it’s very difficult to have a good fit, and a good seal, and everything else sound wise that goes along with that. I was found that noble was overrated. At least for me.

I have 64 Audio A12 and could make a case that it’s as good as the TC but in a different form. I’ve spent three hours a day round-trip on a train to and from New Jersey into New York for work and that’s what I’ve used.


----------



## saudio7

Just quick question regarding burnin of TC, how long it takes and if anyone can describe changes if any?


----------



## WafflesID

saudio7 said:


> Just quick question regarding burnin of TC, how long it takes and if anyone can describe changes if any?


*raises hands emphatically*

For me it was drastic.  Especially if you're treble sensitive.  3 days MINIMUM of just 24/7 loop of music.  5 days if you can stand staring at them without listening to them.

First 3 days I was getting this horrible harshness and this weird sound that i can only describe like if you cup your hands over your ears and talk or talk through a paper towel tube. kinda.  some songs it wasn't as pronounced, so I got really really nervous that it was either just the way the headphones were or it was something with my gear.


----------



## DJJEZ

The treble smoothen'd out and bass got way better compared to day one. I left mine burning in 24/7 till I reached 300 hours, so around 12 days lol


----------



## Roasty

ken6217 said:


> I have 64 Audio A12 and could make a case that it’s as good as the TC but in a different form.



I'm using 64 A12t and share the same thoughts. I tried the U12t several times before ordering the customs, and was surprised at the sound difference the customs offered over the universals. Treble is better controlled and the bass is just about perfect for me. was amazed at the sound and staging I could get from an iem. When I was demoing the universal a18t, I didn't quite enjoy the top end which I felt was too bright. But sometimes I can't help but wonder if the customs u18t would have been a better choice.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> I'm using 64 A12t and share the same thoughts. I tried the U12t several times before ordering the customs, and was surprised at the sound difference the customs offered over the universals. Treble is better controlled and the bass is just about perfect for me. was amazed at the sound and staging I could get from an iem. When I was demoing the universal a18t, I didn't quite enjoy the top end which I felt was too bright. But sometimes I can't help but wonder if the customs u18t would have been a better choice.


Does yours have a port? I got mine maybe four years ago and they had a collaboration with a company that came up with a small module that relieved the sound pressure.


----------



## Roasty

ken6217 said:


> Does yours have a port? I got mine maybe four years ago and they had a collaboration with a company that came up with a small module that relieved the sound pressure.



It has a port. I'm using the 64audio m20 module. The m15 is a bit too bass heavy got me.


----------



## MatW

Roasty said:


> It has a port. I'm using the 64audio m20 module. The m15 is a bit too bass heavy got me.


The M20 is the bass heavy one. 20 dB isolation vs 15 dB for the M15, making it more bass heavy. It also narrows the soundstage somewhat though. I tend to use the M15 on my 64 Audio IEMs.


----------



## Roasty

MatW said:


> The M20 is the bass heavy one. 20 dB isolation vs 15 dB for the M15, making it more bass heavy. It also narrows the soundstage somewhat though. I tend to use the M15 on my 64 Audio IEMs.



Thanks I must have mixed it up! But yea I prefer the less bass heavy one.


----------



## ken6217

I believe I have three different plugs. I got mine prior to when 64 Audio started doing their own. They were claiming that due to the port and relieving sound pressure you could listen to them loud without hearing damage. I used to argue that that was crazy and that you still have loud decibels regardless of pressure relief. I said take a chainsaw and put that next to your ear for a while and see if that doesn’t affect your hearing, and there’s no built up pressure.


----------



## qboogie

PhazeCrive said:


> Yeah, I put a lengthy comment on one of Abyss's videos saying that I do see the benefit of multiple drivers in a headphone. Of course there will be problems like phase distortion and overlapping frequency bands, the space and weight of the crossovers, but it's not impossible to remedy. It's just no one wants to sit down for years and figure it out AND then see how it all sounds in a headphone frame that has resonances and sounds of its own. Having multiple different drivers sound the same would be a new challenege altogether. Electrostat sounds like an electrostat, and dynamic driver sounds like a dynamic. Putting them together in a headphone and making them seem "as one" could be a stretch. It may be easier to use multiple types of the same driver instead so that one driver isn't overtasked with the full frequency spectrum, yet would sound much the same together.
> 
> IEMs also have that bone coduction driver thing going for them which allows for hearing above 20khz, actually. Dare I say endgame there. XD The eardrum is too stiff to respond to frequencies above 20khz. Having a 100khz estat isn't really going to do anything if it can't move your eardrum at all. But a bone conductor would let you hear that.


Perhaps the next frontier will concern metamaterials with new acoustic properties to improve tuning and eliminate distortion and resonance. Or ear canal mapping and on the fly tuning adjustments to account for different anatomy. Maybe a hybrid open back electrostatic IEM combined with an Abyss-like headphone for visceral lows. The future isn't that far away and the thought of what's cooking gets me all gooey


----------



## PhazeCrive (Nov 14, 2021)

Reminds me of the (terrible) nuraphone I had. Its tweeter and midrange were produced with the earbud, and the bass was produced with the earcup. Very neat idea, but it would boom super badly just because of how that bass would shake the eartip that pressed against your ear's opening. Obviously not the most high fidelity thing in the world yet it had ideas going for it literally nothing else had. Ideas in the right direction imo. But the only way to even hear its bass was to blast the volume clear over 100 decibels anyway so it had to go.


----------



## WafflesID

PhazeCrive said:


> Reminds me of the (terrible) nuraphone I had. Its tweeter and midrange were produced with the earbud, and the bass was produced with the earcup. Very neat idea, but it would boom super badly just because of how that bass would shake the eartip that pressed against your ear's opening. Obviously not the most high fidelity thing in the world yet it had ideas going for it literally nothing else had. Ideas in the right direction imo. But the only way to even hear its bass was to blast the volume clear over 100 decibels anyway so it had to go.



I was so close to buying one of these.

"Best sounding headphones because they mapped to your hearing" etc etc.


----------



## FLTWS

PhazeCrive said:


> Reminds me of the (terrible) nuraphone I had. Its tweeter and midrange were produced with the earbud, and the bass was produced with the earcup. Very neat idea, but it would boom super badly just because of how that bass would shake the eartip that pressed against your ear's opening. Obviously not the most high fidelity thing in the world yet it had ideas going for it literally nothing else had. Ideas in the right direction imo. But the only way to even hear its bass was to blast the volume clear over 100 decibels anyway so it had to go.


Looks like a device for inflicting punishment.


----------



## llamaluv

FLTWS said:


> Looks like a device for inflicting punishment.


Well, to be fair, so does the Abyss


----------



## ken6217

llamaluv said:


> Well, to be fair, so does the Abyss


I don’t think so, unless you’re including pain on your wallet.


----------



## dleblanc343

Had some fun this weekend.

Will have these in hand for a few more days and have the opportunity to buy them.

So far, not trying to tick anyone off here… but these are far from compelling to my ears.


----------



## deuter

dleblanc343 said:


> Had some fun this weekend.
> 
> Will have these in hand for a few more days and have the opportunity to buy them.
> 
> So far, not trying to tick anyone off here… but these are far from compelling to my ears.


I have the same gold stand, I heard they don’t make it anymore.
Nice collection of headphones, so you don’t like the Abyss? That is perfectly all right we’re not all the same. Iam not a huge fan of kimchi.


----------



## vonBaron

He must have something with ears.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/totl-disappointments.925164/post-16661360


----------



## cangle

dleblanc343 said:


> So far, not trying to tick anyone off here… but these are far from compelling to my ears.


Totally fine that you don't like them but will you be posting more impressions pointing out where you dislike them and how they compare to other headphones you've heard?

It's easy to get lost in all the positive impressions of the 1266 especially in this thread so look forward to hearing some opposing opinions. And hopefully it starts a good conversation on the 1266.


----------



## ken6217

cangle said:


> Totally fine that you don't like them but will you be posting more impressions pointing out where you dislike them and how they compare to other headphones you've heard?
> 
> It's easy to get lost in all the positive impressions of the 1266 especially in this thread so look forward to hearing some opposing opinions. And hopefully it starts a good conversation on the 1266.


Why do you care? He already gave you his “professional” opinion. No one’s opinion anywhere means more than anyone else’s, and the most important opinion is the one who’s had a pair of headphones are on their own head.


----------



## cangle

ken6217 said:


> Why do you care? He already gave you his “professional” opinion. No one’s opinion anywhere means more than anyone else’s, and the most important opinion is the one who’s had a pair of headphones are on their own head.


Just want to know more about why they don't like them. I'm happy with my 1266 but it's always nice to get more comparisons even if they are negative. Their opinion won't stop me from enjoying them though


----------



## You Kay (Nov 15, 2021)

normie610 said:


> Yeah, not a newer TC please. I’m still (im)patiently waiting for mine to show up 😪


When did you place the order? I’ve asked abyss what the lead time is but i haven’t gotten a response.


----------



## dleblanc343

vonBaron said:


> He must have something with ears.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/totl-disappointments.925164/post-16661360


I trust my ears more than most, as everyone should. 

That being said, I need to play around with fitmet on the 1266 TC further.


That being said, these are definitely not a reference sound, but more of a fun, musical take on music. Definitely comfortable in saying that these do not sound "correct", but neither do many other headphones on the market.

I have no biases against any companies or manufacturer's - I always try my best to just assess what I hear and critique as need be.

I am aware of many factors creating bias in the hobby, such as the ASR Abyss drama, purchase validation when spending several thousands of dollars, country of manufacture etc etc. I do not care for any of that, I say what I like, and what I don't like.

Susvara, Utopia, SR1a, 1266 TC, HE60, ADX5000, HEDD, HE6, Diana Phi, Verite Open, CRBN, LCD4, LCD5, HEKv1/2/s, LCD-R, TH900, HD800, Stellia, Empyrean - I've owned all of these and some forgotten - ALL are far from perfect (they're headphones after all), but some stand out as more special than others.

More to come


----------



## ken6217

dleblanc343 said:


> I trust my ears more than most, as everyone should.
> 
> That being said, I need to play around with fitmet on the 1266 TC further.
> 
> ...


Can’t wait. Got my popcorn at the ready. 

That’s good tbat you trust your ears. Youre a rebel.


----------



## FLTWS (Nov 15, 2021)

dleblanc343 said:


> I trust my ears more than most, as everyone should.
> 
> That being said, I need to play around with fitmet on the 1266 TC further.
> 
> ...


I agree. I have my preferences in sound presentation but avoid adamant fanboy-ism. I own the HD800, HD800S, Susvara, RAAL SR1a, and 1266Phi with CC pads (and spent 2 weeks with a TC loaner going head to head with my Phi). And have owned some noteworthy others, now sold . (And It would be fun to still have Utopia - maybe I'll wait for the next iteration of them if that should come to pass, but they went to a good home). I enjoy them all for their differences in sound presentation and matchups with various amplification, no winners or losers, they are what they are and I like them all to varying degrees with varying music genres and recordings.


----------



## rangerid

dleblanc343 said:


> I trust my ears more than most, as everyone should.
> 
> That being said, I need to play around with fitmet on the 1266 TC further.
> 
> ...


Curious as to what amp/dac combo you're using.

I have a love-hate relationship with the 1266. If I double down on the warmth at every component they are tied for my fav with Sus. If I remove even a bit of warmth and add like a neutral or *gasp* analytical component they immediately lose their charm. I owned many of the headphone you listed and found the TC to be the most picky, even more than Sus, in terms of amp/dac pairing, but they also scale higher more than every other headphone


----------



## mitchb

I find the TC’s sound good with my Niimbus amp connected with Danacable Nirvana cable.


----------



## jaboki

dleblanc343 said:


> So far, not trying to tick anyone off here… but these are far from compelling to my ears.


I wonder how much of this opinion is because of fitment issues. For me, when the fitment was off, it was very underwhelming. But, once I got the fitment down, it was amazing.

If Abyss can figure out their earpad/headband/fitment setup to a KISS method, where it just works out of the box without having to play with fitment, there would be a lot more people loving these headphones.


----------



## dleblanc343

rangerid said:


> Curious as to what amp/dac combo you're using.
> 
> I have a love-hate relationship with the 1266. If I double down on the warmth at every component they are tied for my fav with Sus. If I remove even a bit of warmth and add like a neutral or *gasp* analytical component they immediately lose their charm. I owned many of the headphone you listed and found the TC to be the most picky, even more than Sus, in terms of amp/dac pairing, but they also scale higher more than every other headphone


I use it through a Dangerous Convert-2 and Bryston B135sst2 speaker taps.

Also tried it off BHA-1, Master 9 & a custome tube amp but as most High end planars, it tends to feed off SS and high power best.

I once listened to the 1266 on a Chord Dave / WA33 combo, and found it less enjoyable than my current rig. It was a bit bloomy and too warm down low. Also heard it on the Holo May fed into BHA-1, and that felt a bit limp dynamically (you could tell the headphone wanted to do its thing but was being held back by the May’s soft edges and BHA-1’s lack of swing).


----------



## jlbrach

dleblanc343 said:


> Abyss 1266 TC take the crown for most overrated headphones I’ve ever heard.
> 
> They’re priced 3x too high, have poor detail and not quite totl resolution. I expected the best bass of all headphones, but HE6 and LCD4 both scale better on speaker tap.
> 
> Very uncompelling.





vonBaron said:


> He must have something with ears.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/totl-disappointments.925164/post-16661360


personally I believe this is a subjective hobby based upon a lot of variables we can not control for...a persons hearing,their equipment...what they like and do not like...and then of course there are simply people who like to tell others they are wrong about their views


----------



## dleblanc343

Diana TC… now how about that!


----------



## PhazeCrive

Had a feeling about that since the Diana model on the Abyss site has beem altered with a black headband for awhile now.


----------



## DJJEZ




----------



## paradoxper

jaboki said:


> I wonder how much of this opinion is because of fitment issues. For me, when the fitment was off, it was very underwhelming. But, once I got the fitment down, it was amazing.
> 
> If Abyss can figure out their earpad/headband/fitment setup to a KISS method, where it just works out of the box without having to play with fitment, there would be a lot more people loving these headphones.


That's the crutch. The 1266 isn't put on set/forget, it's time staking and fickle in investing in the proper fit. 
However, I think that's also their key advantage over everything. 

I'll let you know how the Diana TC fairs in KISS.


----------



## DJJEZ

paradoxper said:


> *That's the crutch. The 1266 isn't put on set/forget, it's time staking and fickle in investing in the proper fit.*
> _*However, I think that's also their key advantage over everything.*_
> 
> I'll let you know how the Diana TC fairs in KISS.


Exactly. This is what it makes it so amazing


----------



## Abyss Headphones (Nov 15, 2021)

The new Diana TC is on our website,
https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...roducts/abyss-diana-tc?variant=15611855274027

In the EU, https://eu.abyss-headphones.com/collections/abyss-headphones/products/abyss-diana-tc

We'll talk more about the new model on Friday on our youtube channel. Closed back version will be available in a few months.

Thanks everyone for watching!


----------



## vonBaron

Any EU link?


----------



## littlej0e

Abyss Headphones said:


> The new Diana TC is on our website,
> https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...roducts/abyss-diana-tc?variant=15611855274027
> 
> We'll talk more about the new model on Friday on our youtube channel. Closed back version will be available in a few months.
> ...


Congrats on the launch! Here's hoping it'll be as successful as the rest!


----------



## tholt

DJJEZ said:


>


There is a huge leap in price between Diana v2 and the new TC. The $4500 question is -- why get these instead of the 1266 for $500 more? Is portability worth paying 10% less than a better sounding headphone? The Diana still needs power, so cell phone power is out. They're still open back, so public listening is out. I must be missing something. I get that TC was a natural evolution for Diana, but the price point makes me wonder. Maybe more will come to light on their Friday video.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

vonBaron said:


> Any EU link?


Edited above- Thanks!


----------



## tholt

Guess I'm not the only one...


----------



## Stereolab42

Only $500 less than the Abyss TC? Wait what?


tholt said:


> There is a huge leap in price between Diana v2 and the new TC. The $4500 question is -- why get these instead of the 1266 for $500 more? Is portability worth paying 10% less than a better sounding headphone? The Diana still needs power, so cell phone power is out. They're still open back, so public listening is out. I must be missing something. I get that TC was a natural evolution for Diana, but the price point makes me wonder. Maybe more will come to light on their Friday video.


Yes. This move makes no sense from a business perspective until they can CLEARLY articulate why you would choose one over the other. Preferably in one or two sentences or a big chart with bold graphics. Confused consumers are hesitant consumers. I can understand if the closed back alone came out at this price point, because the Diana form factor is much more amenable to closed than the Abyss. I can see a LOT of existing Abyss customers springing for a closed Diana TC as a companion.


----------



## littlej0e (Nov 15, 2021)

Stereolab42 said:


> Only $500 less than the Abyss TC? Wait what?
> 
> Yes. This move makes no sense from a business perspective until they can CLEARLY articulate why you would choose one over the other. Preferably in one or two sentences or a big chart with bold graphics. Confused consumers are hesitant consumers. I can understand if the closed back alone came out at this price point, because the Diana form factor is much more amenable to closed than the Abyss. I can see a LOT of existing Abyss customers springing for a closed Diana TC as a companion.





tholt said:


> There is a huge leap in price between Diana v2 and the new TC. The $4500 question is -- why get these instead of the 1266 for $500 more? Is portability worth paying 10% less than a better sounding headphone? The Diana still needs power, so cell phone power is out. They're still open back, so public listening is out. I must be missing something. I get that TC was a natural evolution for Diana, but the price point makes me wonder. Maybe more will come to light on their Friday video.



I wonder if the higher price point for the Diana TC is designed to price the performance, not necessarily the product or brand itself. If the DTC can get you 90'ish% of the way to a 1266 with better portability and comfort, then why wouldn't most "average" TOTL consumers buy it over of the 1266? The 1266's are a niche of a niche in the TOTL of TOTL headphone market, while the DTCs are probably designed to appeal to the widest TOTL'ish market possible. Launching and positioning a product this way actually makes sense versus directly cannibalizing your lower priced...or your flagship...products

I also find it incredibly convenient (see not surprising in the least) that Abyss launched the DTC so soon after the LCD-5 at the _*exact same* _price point. Coincidence?!? Perhaps... Maybe they wanted to see what the other side was holding before putting their cards on the table? Or perhaps the LCD-5 is good enough that Abyss felt compelled to launch a direct competitor, even without the long anticipated closed back variant.


----------



## paradoxper

I will take a stab that you pay for the convenience of comfort and portability to the extent.

Unfortunately it feels uncomfortable that the DC will price itself too high, additionally, fears of the 1266 successor will show catastrophic pricing.

I've still not heard a better headphone from a technical point and to my preference as the 1266 TC.

Shrugs.


----------



## sahmen

Just a thought about the $500 difference: This new Diana is a "TC", so maybe it is aimed at those who want something close to the JPS Labs "Total Consciousness" sound, but in a form factor that is different from that of the 1266 TC, which has been known to totally "spook" some enthusiasts away (yours truly included, at least until very recently when I eventually got rid of all my "superstitions" about those looks of the 1266 TC    ).  For enthusiasts curious about the 1266's sound who have been staying away simply on account of its visual aesthetics, the Diana TC might offer quite an attractive proposition, and I suppose the $500 difference might not be an issue either way in such a case, since it was never about the pricing to begin.  One cannot worry in such cases  about the 1266 TC losing possible clients to the Diana TC, since the latter would never have gone for the 1266 at all, in the first place.

At any rate this is just my speculation, since I do not know how the new Diana TC really sounds. I am assuming that JPS Labs would research the market and make sure that these cans will have a substantial number of niche clients before releasing them.


----------



## normie610

You Kay said:


> When did you place the order? I’ve asked abyss what the lead time is but i haven’t gotten a response.


It was 1st week of August, and still no signs yet.


----------



## tholt

paradoxper said:


> additionally, fears of the 1266 successor will show catastrophic pricing.


Yep, exactly what I was thinking. This paves the way for a $$$$$$ new 1266, or whatever the next flagship will be.


----------



## number1sixerfan

tholt said:


> Yep, exactly what I was thinking. This paves the way for a $$$$$$ new 1266, or whatever the next flagship will be.



Yup, first thing I thought of as well. Honestly I think that's all it mainly is lol. That's how the industry is trending.

I will say, I do get the justification for slight price increases across the board due to pandemic impact, but I think mainly it's the above.


----------



## jaboki (Nov 15, 2021)

I wish Abyss just gave it to 1 reviewer for announcement day, even if it was DMS to compare Dv2, DP, DTC, and 1266. That way we can get a feel for how they sound instead of all this speculation until someone gets their hands on them. Not as an end all review, but just to get an initial opinion to get some ideas of SQ/etc.


----------



## tholt (Nov 15, 2021)

sahmen said:


> One cannot worry in such cases about the 1266 TC losing possible clients to the Diana TC,


If anything it would be the opposite. Think VW Phaeton to Audi A8


----------



## mat.1

I have a pad glue problem, any recommendation , what to do to fix it ?


----------



## ken6217

mat.1 said:


> I have a pad glue problem, any recommendation , what to do to fix it ?


Abyss recommends Super Glue


----------



## jlbrach

Stereolab42 said:


> Only $500 less than the Abyss TC? Wait what?
> 
> Yes. This move makes no sense from a business perspective until they can CLEARLY articulate why you would choose one over the other. Preferably in one or two sentences or a big chart with bold graphics. Confused consumers are hesitant consumers. I can understand if the closed back alone came out at this price point, because the Diana form factor is much more amenable to closed than the Abyss. I can see a LOT of existing Abyss customers springing for a closed Diana TC as a companion.


what is so hard to comprehend...many people look for a HP close to the quality of the 1266 TC in a portable form factor...one that is comfortable and light


----------



## TheMiddleSky

tholt said:


> There is a huge leap in price between Diana v2 and the new TC. The $4500 question is -- why get these instead of the 1266 for $500 more? Is portability worth paying 10% less than a better sounding headphone? The Diana still needs power, so cell phone power is out. They're still open back, so public listening is out. I must be missing something. I get that TC was a natural evolution for Diana, but the price point makes me wonder. Maybe more will come to light on their Friday video.



Diana will never sound the same as AB1266 even though the driver material is the same. For example Diana Phi, character wise, sound nothing alike 1266 Phi CC. Diana Phi is more netral-midcentric, a bit intimate vocal position, very tight bass, with smooth treble. AB1266 Phi CC is rather V-Shape with big bass, and really sparkling treble. 

I believe there are people like me who priority midrange above treble and bass, but still want highly technical capable headphone, then we choose to stick in Diana. Personally from Diana Phi I'd rather go to other brands rather to 1266 Phi TC, as least for my taste and preference right now.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Nov 15, 2021)

From abyss `s timeline, it seems that there are two major headphones line up. The Diana lineup and the 1266 lineup. Those who like the Diana form factor and lighter weight will continue to go with the Diana. While the 1266 offers a zero compromise solution for ultimate sound quality. The Diana TC aims to get the sound quality closer to the 1266TC but achieving that with a touch of lighter weight and smaller form factor and potentially slightly better comfort.

However since the acoustic housing of the Diana and 1266 is significantly different, both headphones should sound significantly different to the trained ears of an audiophile.

I can see the Diana line up and 1266 line up coexist in this universe. For those who like the artistic design of the Diana will continue with the Diana. Those who does not want any compromise with the size of the headphone and upfront gear will get the 1266 for ultimate experience.


----------



## MWeston

I thought the Diana Phi was using the diaphragm technology of the 1266 TC already.   I thought that was the major difference between the V2 and Phi.  Maybe not?


----------



## ufospls2

MWeston said:


> I thought the Diana Phi was using the diaphragm technology of the 1266 TC already.   I thought that was the major difference between the V2 and Phi.  Maybe not?



Diana Phi was the same driver as 1266 Phi, and as there was no driver change betwen the two models, also the 1266 Phi CC (minus 3mm to fit the chassis.)

Diana TC follows essentially the same pattern of equivalency = same driver as 1266TC, minus 3mm.


----------



## MWeston

ufospls2 said:


> Diana Phi was the same driver as 1266 Phi, and as there was no driver change betwen the two models, also the 1266 Phi CC (minus 3mm to fit the chassis.)
> 
> Diana TC follows essentially the same pattern of equivalency = same driver as 1266TC, minus 3mm.


That makes sense and the name even suggests that.  I clearly had it mixed up in my head.  I am really looking forward to some reviews.  I wonder if their boy Josh is putting something together already.


----------



## Axel

number1sixerfan said:


> Yup, first thing I thought of as well. Honestly I think that's all it mainly is lol. That's how the industry is trending.
> 
> I will say, I do get the justification for slight price increases across the board due to pandemic impact, but I think mainly it's the above.


Someone said $7-8K mark... that's the next jump. Just wait for the Susvara 2 (or whatever it'll be called) and everyone will align to these prices. It's just a matter of time.


----------



## You Kay

normie610 said:


> It was 1st week of August, and still no signs yet.


That’s actually shocking. I was hoping they could deliver in a matter of days or weeks. Guess I won’t be placing my order on my visit to the US.


----------



## normie610

You Kay said:


> That’s actually shocking. I was hoping they could deliver in a matter of days or weeks. Guess I won’t be placing my order on my visit to the US.


Yeah it’s frustrating. Maybe if there’s still no news until end of this year, I’ll talk to my dealer to cancel the order.


----------



## You Kay

I would have imagined if it’s such a good selling headphone Abyss would manufactured more than necessary to keep some stock in reserve.

It’s not like it’s and amplifier that needs different voltage for different regions of the world.


----------



## GryphonGuy

What about trickle-down development? The Diana TC uses the same drivers as the current flagship. What about they may have built a new driver for their flagship? So that new driver will become the flagship model for the new $$$$$ that everybody is hinting at. If the pricing is too high on a new flagship model and sales do not take off, they will need to change that in some way so that the target sales are maintained. I think JPS Labs uses price as a market positioning device because they perceive that there is no better product out there in the marketplace. Of course I might be conjecturing there but to me, it seems that is the case.


----------



## Gavin C4

GryphonGuy said:


> What about trickle-down development? The Diana TC uses the same drivers as the current flagship. What about they may have built a new driver for their flagship? So that new driver will become the flagship model for the new $$$$$ that everybody is hinting at. If the pricing is too high on a new flagship model and sales do not take off, they will need to change that in some way so that the target sales are maintained. I think JPS Labs uses price as a market positioning device because they perceive that there is no better product out there in the marketplace. Of course I might be conjecturing there but to me, it seems that is the case.



Simple supply and demand knowledge. From the previous post, A TC order from early August is still not yet delivered at this point. Therefore, we have already accumulated 3 months of demand orders at $4000 for 1266 TC. Given that the supply of 1266 TC and the speed of production does not change. They could simply increase the price of the headphone to for example $6000, and possibly reach an equilibrium when supply equals demand. Then the wait for orders will not be so long because the demand decrease. And Abyss could earn 50% more from the sales of the headphones.


----------



## ken6217

Gavin C4 said:


> Simple supply and demand knowledge. From the previous post, A TC order from early August is still not yet delivered at this point. Therefore, we have already accumulated 3 months of demand orders at $4000 for 1266 TC. Given that the supply of 1266 TC and the speed of production does not change. They could simply increase the price of the headphone to for example $6000, and possibly reach an equilibrium when supply equals demand. Then the wait for orders will not be so long because the demand decrease. And Abyss could earn 50% more from the sales of the headphones.


What MBA program did you get that from?


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> What MBA program did you get that from?


The pandemic has transformatively shifted each person into a logistic expert, a barber, a doctor with PhD in epidemiology and x this x that social warrior.

Really quite the accomplishment in human evolution.


----------



## Stereolab42

No, they don't have three months of backlog, especially after getting those new CNC machines. The guy waiting three months ordered from a dealer in a foreign country. Earlier this year I ordered direct as did others and got it in three weeks, while at the same time others who ordered from dealers, especially those abroad, waited many months. For whatever reason Abyss puts dealer orders at the rock bottom of the priority list.


----------



## jaboki

Stereolab42 said:


> For whatever reason Abyss puts dealer orders at the rock bottom of the priority list.


Same reason Audeze did for their LCD5 release.


----------



## WafflesID

Gavin C4 said:


> Simple supply and demand knowledge. From the previous post, A TC order from early August is still not yet delivered at this point. Therefore, we have already accumulated 3 months of demand orders at $4000 for 1266 TC. Given that the supply of 1266 TC and the speed of production does not change. They could simply increase the price of the headphone to for example $6000, and possibly reach an equilibrium when supply equals demand. Then the wait for orders will not be so long because the demand decrease. And Abyss could earn 50% more from the sales of the headphones.


Ordered mine Sept 30th, arrived Nov 3rd.


----------



## Gavin C4

ken6217 said:


> What MBA program did you get that from?



For your information, the $$$$ new flagship in comming.


----------



## normie610

Stereolab42 said:


> For whatever reason Abyss puts dealer orders at the rock bottom of the priority list.


Dealers orders have smaller margins, maybe that’s why it’s at the bottom of the list. As a side note, my dealer’s orders for LCD 5 have started to be fulfilled and it was launched end of September. If I ordered LCD 5, I would’ve received it by now.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

normie610 said:


> Dealers orders have smaller margins, maybe that’s why it’s at the bottom of the list. As a side note, my dealer’s orders for LCD 5 have started to be fulfilled and it was launched end of September. If I ordered LCD 5, I would’ve received it by now.


Oh wow, where you get your order? Haha.

LCD-5 for me is still at December schedule.


----------



## number1sixerfan

normie610 said:


> Dealers orders have smaller margins, maybe that’s why it’s at the bottom of the list. As a side note, my dealer’s orders for LCD 5 have started to be fulfilled and it was launched end of September. If I ordered LCD 5, I would’ve received it by now.



Yup, that's just how it is typically. Simple tradeoff for discounted dealer prices. I do think positioning on that list varies by dealer, probably by volume of business and relationship they have.


----------



## WafflesID

decided to try changing the pads to 9 and 3 (fat side towards the front) with quite a bit of toe out and i just found my new favorite configuration.


----------



## deuter

WafflesID said:


> decided to try changing the pads to 9 and 3 (fat side towards the front) with quite a bit of toe out and i just found my new favorite configuration.


Selfie, so we understand it better.


----------



## ken6217

Very simple. It's backwards.


----------



## tholt

ken6217 said:


> Very simple. It's backwards.


😂 yup. You got this waffles


----------



## paradoxper

His consciousness has been blown.


----------



## tholt

These headphones beg experimentation. To each their own


----------



## Womaz

paradoxper said:


> His consciousness has been blown.


i can now see their next release 1266 CB ……….. Conscience Blown . 😀😀


----------



## ken6217

With that set up he now has the ability to play The Beatles, I am the walrus and not hear “I buried Paul” by playing it backwards.


----------



## WafflesID

paradoxper said:


> His consciousness has been blown.


Total blown Consciousness


----------



## WafflesID

ken6217 said:


> Very simple. It's backwards.


Pretty much.  It does allow more toe out than in though. I'll probably switch back later and be like "this sounds so much better!!"


----------



## WafflesID

ken6217 said:


> With that set up he now has the ability to play The Beatles, I am the walrus and not hear “I buried Paul” by playing it backwards.


Listening to country music and he's getting his truck and dog back.


----------



## ken6217

WafflesID said:


> Listening to country music and he's getting his truck and dog back.


And just starting to date his sister.


----------



## thomasu

Is there a headphone that has a similar sound signature to the TC? I keep reading things about the bass and was wondering if the tonal balance is similar to the Z1R


----------



## briantrinh86

thomasu said:


> Is there a headphone that has a similar sound signature to the TC? I keep reading things about the bass and was wondering if the tonal balance is similar to the Z1R


Similar sound signature is diana tc. Lol


----------



## jlbrach

to me what makes the abyss TC such a special HP is its ability to have such impactful bass without it inhibiting the detail and openness...the lcd-4 has terrific bass but it seems to overwhelm and make it seem muddy...the detail is there but it is obscured...same thing with the meze....the abyss IMHO is the only HP to have such impactful bass and still feel open and detailed....the solitaire P does a pretty good job as well


----------



## paradoxper

The only headphone I can think of as a reach to the TC would be the HE-6.


----------



## GenEricOne (Nov 18, 2021)

Gavin C4 said:


> Simple supply and demand knowledge. From the previous post, A TC order from early August is still not yet delivered at this point. Therefore, we have already accumulated 3 months of demand orders at $4000 for 1266 TC. Given that the supply of 1266 TC and the speed of production does not change. They could simply increase the price of the headphone to for example $6000, and possibly reach an equilibrium when supply equals demand. Then the wait for orders will not be so long because the demand decrease. And Abyss could earn 50% more from the sales of the headphones.


I ordered my TC in October and it shipped 2 days later. I guess they need to lower the price now?

...careful using anecdotes to make a point that should be made with data.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Nov 18, 2021)

GenEricOne said:


> I ordered my TC in October and it shipped 2 days later. I guess they need to lower the price now?
> 
> ...careful using anecdotes to make a point that should be made with data.



Dont want to hear about a price increase? Well, people tends to only want to read and believe in what they like.

You can ask Abyss to lower the price lol. But that is not going to happen. A price increase is more likely to happen in the context of inflation and material shortages.


----------



## ken6217 (Nov 18, 2021)

Two years ago it cost me $2000 freight for a 40 foot container shipping goods from China to New York. That same container cost $18,000 now. That additional freight cost has to be  passed on to somebody.

A friend of mine has a trucking company. 650 trucks. He can’t get drivers. He’s got to pay more to get them. That additional cost gets passed on as well. Eventually these costs as well as the increased costs of materials will affect the price of what you pay for a finish product.


----------



## jaboki

ken6217 said:


> Two years ago it cost me $2000 freight for a 40 foot container shipping goods from China to New York. That same container cost $18,000 now.


WOW


----------



## Dynamo5561

thomasu said:


> Is there a headphone that has a similar sound signature to the TC? I keep reading things about the bass and was wondering if the tonal balance is similar to the Z1R


The tonal balance is not comparable to the Z1R. I have not found an IEM that sounds close to the 1266. I heard some oppinions about the Thummim that it has some characteristics of the 1266.

The closest headphone I found to the 1266 is the quad era-1:






The tonality is quite similar. I would even call it a mini 1266.



paradoxper said:


> The only headphone I can think of as a reach to the TC would be the HE-6.


I personally found the 3-5KHZ peak at the HE6 too much and it totally destroyed the HE6 for me. I find the quad era-1 much more similar to the 1266. But nothing comes close to the 1266.


----------



## GenEricOne

Gavin C4 said:


> Dont want to hear about a price increase? Well, people tends to only want to read and believe in what they like.
> 
> You can ask Abyss to lower the price lol. But that is not going to happen. A price increase is more likely to happen in the context of inflation and material shortages.


I have little doubt a price increase is coming when a better product is available. Just don't cite one order that hasn't shipped for a suspiciously long time.

I do doubt an unchanged AB1266 TC will receive a price increase.


----------



## thomasu

For anyone who has also tried the Diana - is the clamping force on the 1266 completely different? I found that I couldn't wear the Diana for more than an hour because of the pressure it put at the top of my head and my temple area


----------



## Womaz

thomasu said:


> For anyone who has also tried the Diana - is the clamping force on the 1266 completely different? I found that I couldn't wear the Diana for more than an hour because of the pressure it put at the top of my head and my temple area


I have not tried the Diana but I can say that there is zero clamping force with the 1266. If anything it’s a very loose fit that tends to get the best results .


----------



## jaboki

thomasu said:


> I couldn't wear the Diana for more than an hour because of the pressure it put at the top of my head and my temple area


This solved everything for me: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dia...byss-headphones.777618/page-184#post-15935215


----------



## WafflesID

thomasu said:


> For anyone who has also tried the Diana - is the clamping force on the 1266 completely different? I found that I couldn't wear the Diana for more than an hour because of the pressure it put at the top of my head and my temple area


You actually don't want clamping force with 1266. A seal kills the bass.


----------



## WafflesID

Ok I'm almost afraid to ask, but I just got the formula s + powerman and....I think the volume knob is reversed. Shouldnt xi (11) be full volume?


----------



## jlbrach

it is correct lol


----------



## WafflesID (Nov 19, 2021)

WafflesID said:


> Ok I'm almost afraid to ask, but I just got the formula s + powerman and....I think the volume knob is reversed. Shouldnt xi (11) be full volume?



Gotta say, I am preferring the FS+PM over the TToby. The tuning is just perfect  Glad I did it.  I'm back to pads 3 and 9 with toe in   9 and 3 with toe out was softening some of ttoby's brightness. **edit jfc i even typed this backwards.


----------



## ken6217

WafflesID said:


> Ok I'm almost afraid to ask, but I just got the formula s + powerman and....I think the volume knob is reversed. Shouldnt xi (11) be full volume?


Just set the pads to 9-3 and have the thick side of the pads face front and toe out. This will reverse the reverse.


----------



## WafflesID

jlbrach said:


> it is correct lol


oh good  but it makes more sense to go UP for volume up. And seriously, volume should go to 11.


----------



## WafflesID

ken6217 said:


> Just set the pads to 9-3 and have the thick side of the pads face front and toe out. This will reverse the reverse.


I tried reversing the XLR cables and putting the headphones upside down and using pad as a chin strap....I think I've got this crap figured out now


----------



## deuter

WafflesID said:


> Ok I'm almost afraid to ask, but I just got the formula s + powerman and....I think the volume knob is reversed. Shouldnt xi (11) be full volume?


That was so immediate, did you get a good deal?


----------



## WafflesID

deuter said:


> That was so immediate, did you get a good deal?


pretty good.  TToby was pretty fatiguing for me, and I just couldn't quite shake the feeling that the pairing wasn't optimal.  Like Nirvana was really hard to listen to.  Figured, if it didn't make that much of a difference or if the ttoby was better the FS+P combo sells pretty quickly used around here, and it was just a really expensive experiment.  Now I'll probably use the TToby for a really good speaker setup (as intended).


----------



## WafflesID

jaboki said:


> I wonder how much of this opinion is because of fitment issues. For me, when the fitment was off, it was very underwhelming. But, once I got the fitment down, it was amazing.
> 
> If Abyss can figure out their earpad/headband/fitment setup to a KISS method, where it just works out of the box without having to play with fitment, there would be a lot more people loving these headphones.


I'm really starting to subscribe to the idea that the 1266 should just come with the Formula S + Powerman.


----------



## jlbrach

it certainly is a great pairing...tough to beat for sure


----------



## Slim1970

WafflesID said:


> I'm really starting to subscribe to the idea that the 1266 should just come with the Formula S + Powerman.


They are very good together that's for sure!


----------



## WafflesID

jlbrach said:


> it certainly is a great pairing...tough to beat for sure


I'm a believer. Learned the expensive way, but I may be one of the few people out there that have compared the two directly (believe me, i searched for weeks to find a real comparison review).  And the FS+P is only 4 hours old now, not even close to having any burn-in time on it.  

I spent so much time tweaking and fiddling with the fit to try to correct the sound.  With this pairing the fit isn't nearly as critical, it just sounds right.

And I now understand what "Blacker background" means.  You really have to experience it to understand.  Intro to Road to Nowhere was the first time with this pairing that I understood.  Just wow.

That said, if the TToby sounded as good as it did on the 1266 it must sound amazing with speakers.


----------



## WafflesID

LOL OMG. I just tried Amir's Parametric EQ settings in Roon for the 1266.  WTAF. 
He's got something horribly horribly wrong.


----------



## simorag (Nov 20, 2021)

This is a great classical and jazz collection (Qobuz 24/192 stream available) to test the resolving capabilities and the timbre accuracy of our AB-1266 setups 





Generally speaking these tracks excel with clarity, transparency and spaciousness, and are very natural sounding - the trademark of Yarlung records.

In my case, I am getting the best results with the AIC-10 equipped with a NOS Mullard tube, and the Superconductor cable. Other options I tried veered a bit too much on the cold / distant side, although sometimes making details and instrument separation feel almost spooky, yet at the expense of overall musicality.

By the way, the Valkyria sounds best directly via the DAVE with this specific album, where resolution, depth of field and microdynamics - and timbre even-ness - play a big role in making the musical illusion work.


----------



## cAsE sEnSiTiVe

simorag said:


> This is a great classical and jazz collection to test the resolving capabilities and the timbre accuracy of our AB-1266 setups
> 
> ​
> Generally speaking these tracks excel with clarity, transparency and spaciousness, and are very natural sounding - the trademark of Yarlung records.
> ...


Pretty much ALL of the Yarlung recordings are about as good as it gets.


----------



## WafflesID

simorag said:


> This is a great classical and jazz collection (Qobuz 24/192 stream available) to test the resolving capabilities and the timbre accuracy of our AB-1266 setups
> 
> ​
> Generally speaking these tracks excel with clarity, transparency and spaciousness, and are very natural sounding - the trademark of Yarlung records.
> ...


Thank you!  Great suggestion


----------



## rsbrsvp

Dear friends,

the screw on my Abyss TC headband is not as tight as it once was.  Because of this, when  I spread it out for the loosest fit (and biggest soundstage), it collapses to the smallest size as the o rings pull it back together.   How do I tighten the screw so that the headband stays in place at the width I choose?


----------



## MatW

rsbrsvp said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> the screw on my Abyss TC headband is not as tight as it once was.  Because of this, when  I spread it out for the loosest fit (and biggest soundstage), it collapses to the smallest size as the o rings pull it back together.   How do I tighten the screw so that the headband stays in place at the width I choose?


Good question. Abyss have said not to try to tighten the screw yourself. Have you tried larger o rings? If the rings are a little larger the headband might stay in place.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I do not have larger o-rings.  I need to get the screw tightened...


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> I do not have larger o-rings.  I need to get the screw tightened...


You can get it thumb tight otherwise you'll need to send them in for service.


----------



## rsbrsvp

That is crazy.   I live overseas.  To send in headphones to tighten a screw is absurd.  Can a local technician do it?


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> That is crazy.   I live overseas.  To send in headphones to tighten a screw is absurd.  Can a local technician do it?


Ask Joe what is their custom screw head type.


----------



## thomasu

Does the 1266 lend itself to listening while working at a desk? I saw a reviewer talk about how the headphones can tilt if you look down at something because you're supposed to create an air gap


----------



## GenEricOne

WafflesID said:


> Ok I'm almost afraid to ask, but I just got the formula s + powerman and....I think the volume knob is reversed. Shouldnt xi (11) be full volume?


I had the same predicament when I first received my Formula S (no powerman). I was really concerned about first play as I didn't want to blow a driver. I eventually settled on putting it in the middle and turning volume down in the Music app on my Mac.

Currently playing with a Freya+ with an Aegir for driving the TCs, and I think I like it more than the Formula S? Power draw is insane though, not a summer-friendly config.


----------



## deuter

thomasu said:


> Does the 1266 lend itself to listening while working at a desk? I saw a reviewer talk about how the headphones can tilt if you look down at something because you're supposed to create an air gap


You have to be steady having the Abyss 1266 on the head, I use traditionally designed headphones like Focal for working at desk.


----------



## MatW

thomasu said:


> Does the 1266 lend itself to listening while working at a desk? I saw a reviewer talk about how the headphones can tilt if you look down at something because you're supposed to create an air gap





deuter said:


> You have to be steady having the Abyss 1266 on the head, I use traditionally designed headphones like Focal for working at desk.


It can be placed in a way that it's fairly stable, eg by toeing out and gripping the area behind your ears. It's fine when you're mostly looking at a screen in front of you. But if you need to look down frequently, eg to write by hand, I also tend to pick another headphone.


----------



## WafflesID

thomasu said:


> Does the 1266 lend itself to listening while working at a desk? I saw a reviewer talk about how the headphones can tilt if you look down at something because you're supposed to create an air gap


Maybe it's just me but the 1266 begs for full attention. You CAN have it clamped on so it doesn't move when you are looking down, but you lose a lot of bass doing that.

But then again, your brain can't really focus on multiple things very well, so maybe clamp when working, and open it up when needed, or probably just have a different pair for when you're working. The less you are opening and closing, the less chance of having issues with the screw on top coming loose.


----------



## WafflesID

I gotta say, this TC + Formula S/PM combo keeps getting better. Bit more burn in time on the FS/PM last night and even the tiny bit of harshness that was there is starting to go away.


----------



## Mattunoob

Hi, I’ve got two questions. Will Abyss 1266 (not phi or phi tc) be driven to a decent level by sony wm1z dap?
Balanced standard-jack: 240mW+240mW
Stereo mini-jack: 60mW+60mW . So I would use balanced out. Was balanced cable offered with the abyss 1266? Did any of you have a chance to compare Abyss 1266 to Sony Mdr R10? If yes what was your impressions? Is there a significant difference in sound reproduction between abyss 1266 and the newest incarnation tc?
Kind regards


----------



## ken6217

You will have to clarify what you’re saying. The 1266 TC is the current model, and yes it comes with a balanced cable.


----------



## Mattunoob

ken6217 said:


> You will have to clarify what you’re saying. The 1266 TC is the current model, and yes it comes with a balanced cable.


I’m speaking all the time about first model from abyss. Abyss 1266 . The only time I mention TC is in last question, asking if there is a significant difference in sound reproduction between Abyss 1266 (first model) and the newest 1266 phi tc


----------



## ufospls2

Mattunoob said:


> I’m speaking all the time about first model from abyss. Abyss 1266 . The only time I mention TC is in last question, asking if there is a significant difference in sound reproduction between Abyss 1266 (first model) and the newest 1266 phi tc



The 1266 maintain a mostly similar tonal balance throughout the 3 driver revisions. 

Each revision further increased transparency, detail, and technical performance. 

The original 1266 is still a very good headphone. 

The WM1Z may be ok for casual listening, but for best performance they need a powerful, quality desktop amp imo. In terms of portable gear, the least you can get away with would be the iFi iDSD black label, iDSD signature, or the iDSD diablo. 

I have not heard the Sony R10.


----------



## Dynamo5561

Mattunoob said:


> I’m speaking all the time about first model from abyss. Abyss 1266 . The only time I mention TC is in last question, asking if there is a significant difference in sound reproduction between Abyss 1266 (first model) and the newest 1266 phi tc


Technicalities are really quite similar. The main difference is the tonality. The TC sounds less coloured and more nature.


----------



## Axel

Any black friday sales on the 1266?


----------



## MaggotBrain

As the holidays approach and some of you wish to festoon your abodes with the amber glow and dulcid tones of master-crafted tubes to bring out the best in your Abyss TC, check out my review of the Trafomatic Primavera. And if your significant other b*tches about getting another godforsaken amp, just tell her it’s an exotic hand made Serbian lamp. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/trafomatic-primavera-initial-impressions.932900/page-3


----------



## Frankie D

MaggotBrain said:


> As the holidays approach and some of you wish to festoon your abodes with the amber glow and dulcid tones of master-crafted tubes to bring out the best in your Abyss TC, check out my review of the Trafomatic Primavera. And if your significant other b*tches about getting another godforsaken amp, just tell her it’s an exotic hand made Serbian lamp.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/trafomatic-primavera-initial-impressions.932900/page-3


The question though is how does it sound in comparison to Viva, Riviera and Formula S-Powerman?


----------



## ken6217

Frankie D said:


> The question though is how does it sound in comparison to Viva, Riviera and Formula S-Powerman?


Step one: Buy one. 
Step two: Let us know.


----------



## Frankie D

ken6217 said:


> Step one: Buy one.
> Step two: Let us know.


Step three:  See my reply in the Bartok thread.


----------



## ken6217

Frankie D said:


> Step three:  See my reply in the Bartok thread.


I don’t venture over there. I sold my Vivaldi because I’m not a dCS fan.


----------



## Drewligarchy

I got a new toy today. I think it's one of the first. Have to say my initial impressions are quite positive with Abyss and Susvara. I never heard the Bakoon Amp 13r so can't compare it. I'll do some more listening and offer impressions.


----------



## domi

Drewligarchy said:


> I got a new toy today. I think it's one of the first. Have to say my initial impressions are quite positive with Abyss and Susvara. I never heard the Bakoon Amp 13r so can't compare it. I'll do some more listening and offer impressions.



Looking forward to your impressions, curious about how it compares to WA33.


----------



## jlbrach

if it is as good as the 13r it will be a great amp although I must say I like the 13r form factor much better


----------



## Whazzzup

On my birthday list 1266 complete


----------



## deuter

Drewligarchy said:


> I got a new toy today. I think it's one of the first. Have to say my initial impressions are quite positive with Abyss and Susvara. I never heard the Bakoon Amp 13r so can't compare it. I'll do some more listening and offer impressions.


What amp is it?


----------



## rangerid

deuter said:


> What amp is it?


Enleum Amp 23R aka the Bakoon 13R after a winter bulk


----------



## paradoxper

And I bet donuts the CFA3 still crushes the 23R. Stupid move, they lost any aesthetic tact they had with the 13R.


----------



## rangerid

paradoxper said:


> And I bet donuts the CFA3 still crushes the 23R. Stupid move, they lost any aesthetic tact they had with the 13R.


The 23R certainly had a couple donuts in it... I really like to know what the thought process was for the design, like how does one look at the 13R, design the 23R and goes yea that looks like a step forward


----------



## Drewligarchy (Nov 22, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> if it is as good as the 13r it will be a great amp although I must say I like the 13r form factor much better



I agree the Bakoon has better curb appeal - but it works better for me, I think, because I can stack it on M Scaler without it getting too hot with the legs. I tried to buy a used 13r for a while and then thought, why not give this a try, with the trial period, new.

The 6moons article said it sounds slightly weightier than the 13r, but I imagine it would be hard to tell them apart. Anyhow, I’m really impressed thus far. I haven’t listened to speaker amps with these headphones, but I think it’s a lot better than the Formula S, Benchmark HPA4 and V281. Haven’t tried Nimbus or CFA3. I’ll compare to the Wa33 eventually. 

It’s warm, fast, liquid and incredibly transparent. Most impressive to me however is tone. I’m a tone junky and it’s the first thing I listen for and it’s great. Listening in high gain I have way more power and headroom than I’d ever possibly need. Dynamics are on point. No negatives thus far but need more listening time. 

I think Wa33/23r is a pretty phenomenal tube/ solid state combo - especially for those that prioritize tone like me.


----------



## Drewligarchy

paradoxper said:


> And I bet donuts the CFA3 still crushes the 23R. Stupid move, they lost any aesthetic tact they had with the 13R.



Serious question - I’m interested in how you compare the CFA3 to the Bakoon/Enleum. I know you didn’t like the Bakoon - but in what ways do you like the CFA3 better? I’m interested mainly because I’d consider commissioning a CFA3 build, but I am concerned it’s too cold. I also feel like we have very different taste as I know you don’t like the Wa33 very much either and I love it, so want to understand if it’s a signature I’d enjoy.

I respect your knowledge and experience with audio, so would love your thoughts. I also really appreciate the value and passion the DIY community and Kevin Gilmore have brought to the audio world. From a technical standpoint I know the KG designs equal or surpass many commercial designs - for a lot less cost - in most cases. The only KG amp I’ve owned is the Carbon with the 009 - and while the soundstage and dynamics were fantastic - it felt a little too dry for me - both in the analytical sense and in the sense that it wasn’t quite as “liquid” as I like. That said I enjoyed the 007 mk2 more with it - so may just be the 009 does better with tubes.


----------



## jlbrach

he also doesnt like the susvara...I used to try to understand many of his opinions and when I saw his view on the susvara I finally understood...by the way that is his right since this is a subjective hobby


----------



## Roasty

Hey all. Been a while since I posted here.. because for the longest time, I've always preferred listening with the Utopia and Susvara. 

Yea the abyss does bass really well, but I always felt that the mids could be better and the highs were occasionally too sharp, plus vocals felt a bit empty and echoey or hollow sounding. Also, I had a major issue with imaging on the abyss; seemed like there was a tonne of information being delivered but not in a coherent way, and I could not really pinpoint where sound/elements of the music were coming from as easily as I could with the utopia/susvara. 

Thankfully, that has all changed now, since adding a musical paradise mp-701 mk2 tube preamplifier to the chain. I don't know what is going on, but I am getting the best layering, imaging, depth, soundstage and even more bass than I've ever had with the Abyss. Vocals actually sound correct now (lol).. 

On my lineup of headphones, it has pretty much shot the Abyss 1266 TC Phi to the top of the list. I'm a bit busy nowadays, so I will write a bit more on it when I have the time, but for now, I have to say its a game changer for me and the Abyss.


----------



## WafflesID (Nov 22, 2021)

Roasty said:


> Hey all. Been a while since I posted here.. because for the longest time, I've always preferred listening with the Utopia and Susvara.
> 
> Yea the abyss does bass really well, but I always felt that the mids could be better and the highs were occasionally too sharp, plus vocals felt a bit empty and echoey or hollow sounding. Also, I had a major issue with imaging on the abyss; seemed like there was a tonne of information being delivered but not in a coherent way, and I could not really pinpoint where sound/elements of the music were coming from as easily as I could with the utopia/susvara.
> 
> ...


Thanks! This DAC has been on my wishlist.

Just ordered a pontus II, but really want to try this DAC eventually.
*Edit*
Ohh you're talking about their preamp.


----------



## tholt

Roasty said:


> Hey all. Been a while since I posted here.. because for the longest time, I've always preferred listening with the Utopia and Susvara.
> 
> Yea the abyss does bass really well, but I always felt that the mids could be better and the highs were occasionally too sharp, plus vocals felt a bit empty and echoey or hollow sounding. Also, I had a major issue with imaging on the abyss; seemed like there was a tonne of information being delivered but not in a coherent way, and I could not really pinpoint where sound/elements of the music were coming from as easily as I could with the utopia/susvara.
> 
> ...


Cool. I was contemplating the one for sale on USAM a bit back. What DAC chips are in yours? Nice impressions. But I wonder, how do you roll the tubes? They're pretty sunk in. Do you have to remove the cover?


----------



## Drewligarchy

jlbrach said:


> he also doesnt like the susvara...I used to try to understand many of his opinions and when I saw his view on the susvara I finally understood...by the way that is his right since this is a subjective hobby



Of course it is. I just want to get a handle on the CFA3 signature in comparison to something I’m familiar with.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Roasty said:


> Hey all. Been a while since I posted here.. because for the longest time, I've always preferred listening with the Utopia and Susvara.
> 
> Yea the abyss does bass really well, but I always felt that the mids could be better and the highs were occasionally too sharp, plus vocals felt a bit empty and echoey or hollow sounding. Also, I had a major issue with imaging on the abyss; seemed like there was a tonne of information being delivered but not in a coherent way, and I could not really pinpoint where sound/elements of the music were coming from as easily as I could with the utopia/susvara.
> 
> ...



@Roasty - have you tried using the pre with multiple amps? Which amp do you prefer?


----------



## normie610

Drewligarchy said:


> Of course it is. I just want to get a handle on the CFA3 signature in comparison to something I’m familiar with.


I think you can find his comparison with 13R in CFA3 thread.


----------



## WafflesID

holy crap.  So i let the amp and headphones play overnight and all day to get a little more burn-in time, and...good lord.  I can't barely believe what i'm hearing.  The headphones just disappear. And there is still a lot I can do to improve my setup.  DAC, cables, power.

and yet still can't hear the difference between the different Sound Color modes on my SU-9. lol.  *shrug*


----------



## Roasty

tholt said:


> Cool. I was contemplating the one for sale on USAM a bit back. What DAC chips are in yours? Nice impressions. But I wonder, how do you roll the tubes? They're pretty sunk in. Do you have to remove the cover?



Oh sorry for the confusion. Mine is the preamp, not the dac. But anyways, it is easy to change the tubes and u don't have to remove the top cover (unless you are changing to a different type of signal tube, for which the switch is not accessible unless the top cover is off). 




Drewligarchy said:


> @Roasty - have you tried using the pre with multiple amps? Which amp do you prefer?



I have only used this preamp with the Kinki M7 stereo amp. However, I have used 4 preamps with the M7 (kinki P27, denafrips athena, wa33, mp-701) and I definitely like the musical paradise pre the most. 

If I had to rank from "worst" to "best", then wa33, kinki/athena, MP. 

But despite the lovely sound I'm getting, there are also many cons to this preamp... I'll list them down when I have the time to type more.


----------



## tholt

Roasty said:


> Oh sorry for the confusion. Mine is the preamp, not the dac.


Duh. I breezed right over that part of your post. Looks like their DAC from your pic. Good to know about the tubes.


----------



## paradoxper

Drewligarchy said:


> Serious question - I’m interested in how you compare the CFA3 to the Bakoon/Enleum. I know you didn’t like the Bakoon - but in what ways do you like the CFA3 better? I’m interested mainly because I’d consider commissioning a CFA3 build, but I am concerned it’s too cold. I also feel like we have very different taste as I know you don’t like the Wa33 very much either and I love it, so want to understand if it’s a signature I’d enjoy.
> 
> I respect your knowledge and experience with audio, so would love your thoughts. I also really appreciate the value and passion the DIY community and Kevin Gilmore have brought to the audio world. From a technical standpoint I know the KG designs equal or surpass many commercial designs - for a lot less cost - in most cases. The only KG amp I’ve owned is the Carbon with the 009 - and while the soundstage and dynamics were fantastic - it felt a little too dry for me - both in the analytical sense and in the sense that it wasn’t quite as “liquid” as I like. That said I enjoyed the 007 mk2 more with it - so may just be the 009 does better with tubes.


I did not like the AMP-13R much. If I wanted to soften the sound, I'll pursue a tube amp that will give greater spatial characteristics to boot. 
What I appreciated about the 13R was the compact nature, the fantastic design inside and out and the overall smooth response. 

The CFA3 is simply the best headamp I've heard, from resolution to bass control -- it represents the best I've heard solid state not of yesteryear but of the future.
It's highly detailed and dynamic and never cold or distant. It fits my listening preference perfectly.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> I did not like the AMP-13R much. If I wanted to soften the sound, I'll pursue a tube amp that will give greater spatial characteristics to boot.
> What I appreciated about the 13R was the compact nature, the fantastic design inside and out and the overall smooth response.
> 
> The CFA3 is simply the best headamp I've heard, from resolution to bass control -- it represents the best I've heard solid state not of yesteryear but of the future.
> It's highly detailed and dynamic and never cold or distant. It fits my listening preference perfectly.


I sold my Simaudio 600i V2 speaker amp after hearing the CFA3.


----------



## Roasty

I wrote down some stuff on the musical paradise pre amp, but after some consideration, I am deciding not to post it here. 

Don't want to derail the abyss thread further. And I just cannot recommend this MP preamp for headphones use, unless you're willing to add on an attenuation box and spend time searching for quiet signal tubes and better recs. The gain of the unit is just too high. 

Those interested to know more, just pm me if u want the list of pros and cons of the unit itself and the usage of it.


----------



## WafflesID

paradoxper said:


> I did not like the AMP-13R much. If I wanted to soften the sound, I'll pursue a tube amp that will give greater spatial characteristics to boot.
> What I appreciated about the 13R was the compact nature, the fantastic design inside and out and the overall smooth response.
> 
> The CFA3 is simply the best headamp I've heard, from resolution to bass control -- it represents the best I've heard solid state not of yesteryear but of the future.
> It's highly detailed and dynamic and never cold or distant. It fits my listening preference perfectly.


Where can you get a CFA3 if you don't have the tools/time for DIY?


----------



## vonBaron

paradoxper said:


> I did not like the AMP-13R much. If I wanted to soften the sound, I'll pursue a tube amp that will give greater spatial characteristics to boot.
> What I appreciated about the 13R was the compact nature, the fantastic design inside and out and the overall smooth response.
> 
> The CFA3 is simply the best headamp I've heard, from resolution to bass control -- it represents the best I've heard solid state not of yesteryear but of the future.
> It's highly detailed and dynamic and never cold or distant. It fits my listening preference perfectly.


Did you listen Niimbus?


----------



## DJJEZ

paradoxper said:


> I did not like the AMP-13R much. If I wanted to soften the sound, I'll pursue a tube amp that will give greater spatial characteristics to boot.
> What I appreciated about the 13R was the compact nature, the fantastic design inside and out and the overall smooth response.
> 
> The CFA3 is simply the best headamp I've heard, from resolution to bass control -- it represents the best I've heard solid state not of yesteryear but of the future.
> It's highly detailed and dynamic and never cold or distant. It fits my listening preference perfectly.


Do you have a list of what gear you've owned before the CFA3? Just interested to see what you've tried.


----------



## genefruit

WafflesID said:


> Where can you get a CFA3 if you don't have the tools/time for DIY?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kg-cfa3-headphone-amp.938064/


----------



## paradoxper

vonBaron said:


> Did you listen Niimbus?


Yes.


DJJEZ said:


> Do you have a list of what gear you've owned before the CFA3? Just interested to see what you've tried.


Bartok, HSA-1b, AIC-10, INT-150, Formula S, DSHA3F, DSHA-1, T4, Dynahi and before this DIY T2 to Carbon and KGSSHV. I've heard most commercial amplifiers as well from EC, DNA, A/S, ECP which are better fits for dynamics.


----------



## QuantumKat

Anyone know if a Matrix Element X is powerful enough to drive the 1266 as a solid state HP amp?

My plan is to use the element X as my DAC and run it into a WA33 JPS. Eventually. Until then, it'd be good to know if this DAC/Amp will suffice.

Hard for me to parse the watts@ohms stuff as a n00b.

Thanks!

Output Impedance: <1.5Ω
Output Power: 1700mw@33Ω, 1180mw@300Ω, 650mw@600Ω, 1%THD
Gain: +18dB@Low Gain, +28dB@High Gain


----------



## WafflesID

genefruit said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kg-cfa3-headphone-amp.938064/


Am I missing something?  I don't see anything about where to either have one built or purchase pre-built.


----------



## ken6217

WafflesID said:


> Am I missing something?  I don't see anything about where to either have one built or purchase pre-built.


Message @Dukei


----------



## Sajid Amit

ken6217 said:


> Message @Dukei


@Dukei does great work


----------



## Pashmeister

Roasty said:


> Hey all. Been a while since I posted here.. because for the longest time, I've always preferred listening with the Utopia and Susvara.
> 
> Yea the abyss does bass really well, but I always felt that the mids could be better and the highs were occasionally too sharp, plus vocals felt a bit empty and echoey or hollow sounding. Also, I had a major issue with imaging on the abyss; seemed like there was a tonne of information being delivered but not in a coherent way, and I could not really pinpoint where sound/elements of the music were coming from as easily as I could with the utopia/susvara.
> 
> ...


I love the sound of this MP. I had this for a while. It’s so friggin gigantic though, and to make space I replaced it with the Cayin tube preamp instead. Both are great.


----------



## PhazeCrive

I'm gonna buy a TC this december. I have to save up for that so my budget is pretty low as is. The most I would stretch for an amp would be 2k, and even that would take awhile. What can really get the TC performing 90% there for under 2 grand?

If you say Topping, I will smite thee.


----------



## Sajid Amit

PhazeCrive said:


> I'm gonna buy a TC this december. I have to save up for that so my budget is pretty low as is. The most I would stretch for an amp would be 2k, and even that would take awhile. What can really get the TC performing 90% there for under 2 grand?
> 
> If you say Topping, I will smite thee.


No chance. Please don’t get the topping. At that price, I would personally get a used speaker amp. Barring that, an iCAN or a GSX Mini.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Is the gsx mini gonna be able to let the TC get nasty low in the bass?


----------



## Whazzzup

PhazeCrive said:


> Is the gsx mini gonna be able to let the TC get nasty low in the bass?


Not just that my friend, id put GSX MK2 on anything. Mini assume the same. But you best like true timber, fast response, super black floor


----------



## WafflesID

PhazeCrive said:


> I'm gonna buy a TC this december. I have to save up for that so my budget is pretty low as is. The most I would stretch for an amp would be 2k, and even that would take awhile. What can really get the TC performing 90% there for under 2 grand?
> 
> If you say Topping, I will smite thee.


I tried that route. I got a chord TToby because it was cheaper than formula s + powerman.  Ttoby is really fatiguing to me. The formula s was a significant improvement for me.

Maybe ask @Dukei about a price to build a CFA3


----------



## PhazeCrive

Cool. Can't wait to join the cool kids' club next month. Yes I'm on a budget, but I care most about the TC's bass not being severely crippled by the amp If the GSX does that then it's all good. The A90 absolutely robbed my Diana V2 of sub bass unfortunately.

Idk what's hot in the speaker amp world nor do I know anything about the cables you'd nees to use with 'em, though I do hear speaker amps are better for these.


----------



## MatW

Ferrum OOR? It's 2k without the Hypsos power supply. Which can be added later.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Nov 23, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> I did not like the AMP-13R much. If I wanted to soften the sound, I'll pursue a tube amp that will give greater spatial characteristics to boot.
> What I appreciated about the 13R was the compact nature, the fantastic design inside and out and the overall smooth response.
> 
> The CFA3 is simply the best headamp I've heard, from resolution to bass control -- it represents the best I've heard solid state not of yesteryear but of the future.
> It's highly detailed and dynamic and never cold or distant. It fits my listening preference perfectly.



Thanks for this. I haven't had the Enleum very long, but my initial impressions line up with what you are saying. I think tone wise, it reminds me of tubes - warm/smooth and liquid, but incredibly transparent and quick.  (which is why I like it). I think I read that the creator of the Satri circuit was a huge fan of tubes. That said, I don't get the spatial characteristics with it I do with tubes - so get your point. It's not that the headstage is bad, it's just not quite as large as some other headamps. The imaging, however, IMO is pinpoint (at least with the Enleum). With the Abyss the headstage is smaller than the Formula S, bigger than the HPA4 and V281 - definitely smaller than the Wa33 (these are just amps I've tried). I have the Wa33 which has a gigantic sound stage, so that part wasn't as much as a concern for me. It's a priority but not a top one. Keep in mind these impression are only after one long night.

I am definitely going to keep the Enleum, because it's been a struggle to find a solid state amp that I enjoy with the Abyss and Susvara - and that doesn't give me a headache / listening fatigue, and I enjoyed it for hours last night. I have to say I am intrigued by the CFA3 as I don't think I've seen anyone who doesn't like it. I'd love to hear what the Abyss sounds like with an amp that has vice like grip on the drivers, without going to a straight speaker amp. Something that gives me a decidedly different flavor than the Enleum/Wa33 but I enjoy. After listening to the Enleum, if you are doing solid state, I think current mode amps are the way to go with hard to drive planars. And, after all, our tastes aren't that different - we both gravitate to the Abyss.

I'll continue discussion around the CFA3/Abyss in the CFA thread as to not derail further. That said - if anyone if using Dave/MScaler with CFA3 - would love your opinions via PM. Even with the M-Scaler, I find that Dave can veer toward analytic - which is why I think the Wa33 and Enleum match so well. Does it match well with the CFA3 in your opinion?


----------



## WafflesID

PhazeCrive said:


> Cool. Can't wait to join the cool kids' club next month. Yes I'm on a budget, but I care most about the TC's bass not being severely crippled by the amp If the GSX does that then it's all good. The A90 absolutely robbed my Diana V2 of sub bass unfortunately.
> 
> Idk what's hot in the speaker amp world nor do I know anything about the cables you'd nees to use with 'em, though I do hear speaker amps are better for these.


I would say yesterday was the first day i started to hear the headphones disappear. After some proper burn-in.

Just the cleanest, smoothest most amazing music I've ever heard.

My journey went from "oh crap, I think I prefer my Arya's" to "ok these sound good, amazing at times depending on the music"

Then I got the formula s + powerman and day one was "omg these sound amazing!"

Then a few more days of burn in on the amp and headphones and it went to "there are no more headphones, just music." 

FOr example the abyss headphone test track (on YouTube. Download the flac). Before on the test when he's walking around in a circle with the box tapping on it constantly I didn't have a good sense of depth. Just width.  Yesterday the depth appeared and it was amazing.  Tool chocolate chip trip blew my mind.


----------



## Slim1970

Whazzzup said:


> Not just that my friend, id put GSX MK2 on anything. Mini assume the same. But you best like true timber, fast response, super black floor


Agreed, love my GS-X MK2


----------



## paradoxper

Drewligarchy said:


> Thanks for this. I haven't had the Enleum very long, but my initial impressions line up with what you are saying. I think tone wise, it reminds me of tubes - warm/smooth and liquid, but incredibly transparent and quick.  (which is why I like it). I think I read that the creator of the Satri circuit was a huge fan of tubes. That said, I don't get the spatial characteristics with it I do with tubes - so get your point. It's not that the headstage is bad, it's just not quite as large as some other headamps. The imaging, however, IMO is pinpoint (at least with the Enleum). With the Abyss the headstage is smaller than the Formula S, bigger than the HPA4 and V281 - definitely smaller than the Wa33 (these are just amps I've tried). I have the Wa33 which has a gigantic sound stage, so that part wasn't as much as a concern for me. It's a priority but not a top one. Keep in mind these impression are only after one long night.
> 
> I am definitely going to keep the Enleum, because it's been a struggle to find a solid state amp that I enjoy with the Abyss and Susvara - and that doesn't give me a headache / listening fatigue, and I enjoyed it for hours last night. I have to say I am intrigued by the CFA3 as I don't think I've seen anyone who doesn't like it. I'd love to hear what the Abyss sounds like with an amp that has vice like grip on the drivers, without going to a straight speaker amp. Something that gives me a decidedly different flavor than the Enleum/Wa33 but I enjoy. After listening to the Enleum, if you are doing solid state, I think current mode amps are the way to go with hard to drive planars. And, after all, our tastes aren't that different - we both gravitate to the Abyss.
> 
> I'll continue discussion around the CFA3/Abyss in the CFA thread as to not derail further. That said - if anyone if using Dave/MScaler with CFA3 - would love your opinions via PM. Even with the M-Scaler, I find that Dave can veer toward analytic - which is why I think the Wa33 and Enleum match so well. Does it match well with the CFA3 in your opinion?


It's just important to understand context -- a commercial CFA3 would run at least $6k, and the fact the Niimbus gets its ass kicked so hardcore leaves a bad taste in the mouth. It's sort of the same thing in the realm of stats, where your favorite amp producer couldn't put on offer a competent electrostatic amp, let alone one that was safe.
I owned the Eddie Current Elektra for fair bias. I've pit the CFA3 against a few speaker amps, against your favorite FOTM Head-Fi hyperbole, and continue to be impressed.

I'm sure once the CFA3 SMD goes streamline, it will factor in an even larger audience. Miroslav, you best find a faster iron, I'm burying you in future orders. LOL

I couldn't tell you heads/tails for context of DAVE. I don't find DAVE stellar, or referential. It's been too long since I last heard and compared DAVE but I do avoid chains that include DAVE or TT2. My advice would be at the least bottom end try a May Dac and work up to the warm R2R > Rockna > MSB, etc. They illuminate major DAVE deficiency.


----------



## jaboki

paradoxper said:


> My advice would be at the least bottom end try a May Dac and work up to the warm R2R > Rockna > MSB, etc. They illuminate major DAVE deficiency.


Do you think the May DAC isn't good? Just trying to follow the "bottom end" context.

I'm cross shopping May, Morpheus/Pasithea, and Wavelight and would love to hear what you think of the May.


----------



## paradoxper

jaboki said:


> Do you think the May DAC isn't good? Just trying to follow the "bottom end" context.
> 
> I'm cross shopping May, Morpheus/Pasithea, and Wavelight and would love to hear what you think of the May.


More as a steal. The various MSB/dCS/Rockna/TotalDAC introduction* prices *are more in line with DAVE.


----------



## ken6217

jaboki said:


> Do you think the May DAC isn't good? Just trying to follow the "bottom end" context.
> 
> I'm cross shopping May, Morpheus/Pasithea, and Wavelight and would love to hear what you think of the May.


Well in the context of the order he put it in, then yes. I have/had a Morpheus and a few weeks ago I borrowed the Holo May KTE, and the Morpheus sounded much better. The guy I borrowed from sold it after every I returned it and said it was overrated.


----------



## jaboki

ken6217 said:


> Well in the context of the order he put it in, then yes. I have/had a Morpheus and a few weeks ago I borrowed the Holo May KTE, and the Morpheus sounded much better. The guy I borrowed from sold it after every I returned it and said it was overrated.


Thanks for the feedback! I also love the smaller footprint and leaning towards it


----------



## QuantumKat

Hmm, 

HeadAmp GS-X mk2 vs. Formula S w/ Poweramp vs. CFA3?

Anyone?


----------



## ken6217 (Nov 23, 2021)

jaboki said:


> Thanks for the feedback! I also love the smaller footprint and leaning towards it


You probably will see some Morpheus used since they are coming out with a new model, but also about double the price. Nothing wrong with buying a used DAC. It’s a great value and what could really go wrong with it.


----------



## ken6217

QuantumKat said:


> Hmm,
> 
> HeadAmp GS-X mk2 vs. Formula S w/ Poweramp vs. CFA3?
> 
> Anyone?


I’m sure it would come down to personal preference. The CFA3 is truly amazing sounding, and about half the price of a Formula S with PowerMan, but it also fully balanced, puts out 16 watts into 50 ohms, and so has plenty of power for the 1266 TC and Susvara.


----------



## briantrinh86

ken6217 said:


> I’m sure it would come down to personal preference. The CFA3 is truly amazing sounding, and about half the price of a Formula S with PowerMan, but it also fully balanced, puts out 16 watts into 50 ohms, and so has plenty of power for the 1266 TC and Susvara.


hi, how did u buy the CFA3. i don't see any purchase link or website to get it. thanks


----------



## jaboki

briantrinh86 said:


> hi, how did u buy the CFA3. i don't see any purchase link or website to get it. thanks


PM @Dukei


----------



## ken6217

jaboki said:


> PM @Dukei


He’s also very nice to work with. Not only did I collaborate with him, and he built it, but I also made a friend.


----------



## QuantumKat

Looks like I need to hit up @Dukei 

Also looks like I would need a DAC if I go that route. Decisions, decisions... 

Here I was hoping the Matrix Element X would solve all my DAC/Amp issues but it seems like there's nothing in the $3-4k price range that provides that combo.


----------



## Whazzzup (Nov 23, 2021)

Gaze, at the splendid simplicity of gsx mk2, yes it sounds as good as it looks.


----------



## Slim1970

Whazzzup said:


> Gaze, at the splendid simplicity of gsx mk2, yes it sounds as good as it looks.


I’m a fan. It’s the best amp I’ve had the pleasure of owning. It’s also based on the Kevin Gilmore design.


----------



## ken6217 (Nov 23, 2021)

deleted.


----------



## jlbrach

PhazeCrive said:


> I'm gonna buy a TC this december. I have to save up for that so my budget is pretty low as is. The most I would stretch for an amp would be 2k, and even that would take awhile. What can really get the TC performing 90% there for under 2 grand?
> 
> If you say Topping, I will smite thee.


easy get a used formula s and if possible a used formula s/powerman if you can stretch the budget....I do know many promote a speaker amp and I am fine with that but all things being equal the formula s/powerman with the abyss is nirvana...can you do better?...I assume so but it will be incremental and very expensive...imho of course


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> easy get a used formula s and if possible a used formula s/powerman if you can stretch the budget....I do know many promote a speaker amp and I am fine with that but all things being equal the formula s/powerman with the abyss is nirvana...can you do better?...I assume so but it will be incremental and very expensive...imho of course


Or you could spend 50% of that and get a CFA3.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Yeah formula s having a run for its money, looks like. No shade, but $2.3k for a transformer?


----------



## QuantumKat

Slim1970 said:


> I’m a fan. It’s the best amp I’ve had the pleasure of owning. It’s also based on the Kevin Gilmore design.


Better than your Hugo or Formula S w/ Powerman?


----------



## jlbrach

you can get the formula s/powerman combo for about the price of the CFA3...if you buy it used....I am not for a moment taking anything away from the  CFA3 which I hear only good things about...I am only saying for the abyss the combo is really good


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> you can get the formula s/powerman combo for about the price of the CFA3...if you buy it used....I am not for a moment taking anything away from the  CFA3 which I hear only good things about...I am only saying for the abyss the combo is really good


If my aunt had a beard she’d be my uncle.


----------



## ken6217

John Grandberg (Project86) did a huge review on headphone amps a while back. He felt the Formula S had the best synergy for the 1266 TC, but not good with other headphones. More of a one trick pony. So it’s a good vote if you have that one headphone. 

It’s not for me based on that, and more importantly that it is only single ended which means that I have to feed 2V instead of 4V into it from my DAC which I don’t like to do. Also my DAC is balanced and I can take advantage of a balanced headphone amp.


----------



## simorag

PhazeCrive said:


> I'm gonna buy a TC this december. I have to save up for that so my budget is pretty low as is. The most I would stretch for an amp would be 2k, and even that would take awhile. What can really get the TC performing 90% there for under 2 grand?
> 
> If you say Topping, I will smite thee.



The best amp pairings I personally tried with the AB-1266 TC for in the price range you mention are the Sugden A21SE (solid state) and Leben CS300 (tubes). Both are speaker amps with a warmer-than-neutral signature, and can be found for around 2k used with some patience and luck.

Very enjoyable combos, and capable of providing outstanding listening pleasure, even with long and spirited sessions.

These amps would be especially compelling if your priorities are about acoustic music timbre integrity, midrange body, presence, macro-dynamics. On the other hand, they are not the last word in terms of clarity, snappiness, resolution, if these are your ultimate targets.


----------



## Slim1970

QuantumKat said:


> Better than your Hugo or Formula S w/ Powerman?


Hugo 2, yes because I have the Dave/HMS feeding it. 

The Formula S with Powerman is a different story. The FS+P has a different presentation from the GS-X MK2. The Formula S is slightly warmer, with a little more body and it's also more musical. Especially with the Sagra DAC feeding it. The GS-X is more precise, slightly on the analytical side with snappier transients, even more dynamic sounding, and more transparent. The GS-X MK2 is a great amp for maintaining everything great about the Dave


----------



## jlbrach

ken6217 said:


> John Grandberg (Project86) did a huge review on headphone amps a while back. He felt the Formula S had the best synergy for the 1266 TC, but not good with other headphones. More of a one trick pony. So it’s a good vote if you have that one headphone.
> 
> It’s not for me based on that, and more importantly that it is only single ended which means that I have to feed 2V instead of 4V into it from my DAC which I don’t like to do. Also my DAC is balanced and I can take advantage of a balanced headphone amp.


actually the combo is quite good with all HP's and best with the 1266


----------



## Sajid Amit (Nov 23, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> More as a steal. The various MSB/dCS/Rockna/TotalDAC introduction* prices *are more in line with DAVE.


I agree. I preferred the May to the Morpheus quite easily. If you need the pre-amp of the smaller one-box unit then that’s something else, but the pre-amp didn’t sound too great to me. 🤷‍♂️

The Dave offers a different perspective to the music than the May or the DF Terminator+.

The Bartok is a great buy if you will use it as an all-in-one.

The higher end MSB DACs I might get to try in December.

Has anyone compared the MSB discrete base model (w/o the power base) to the Dave?


----------



## vonBaron

Morpheus have best SQ to price ratio of them all.


----------



## Sajid Amit

On a different note, has anyone tried this?

https://www.msbtechnology.com/amplifiers/the-premier-headphone-amp/


----------



## Spawn300Z

Sajid Amit said:


> On a different note, has anyone tried this?
> 
> https://www.msbtechnology.com/amplifiers/the-premier-headphone-amp/


Seems like and interesting amp and nice design. Did you se the note on the specification page? The Premier Headphone Amp can ONLY be used with MSB DACs.

That doesn’t make sense.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Spawn300Z said:


> Seems like and interesting amp and nice design. Did you se the note on the specification page? The Premier Headphone Amp can ONLY be used with MSB DACs.
> 
> That doesn’t make sense.


How unfortunate.


----------



## Spawn300Z

Sajid Amit said:


> How unfortunate.


I don’t see how an amp can only work with one DAC.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Spawn300Z said:


> I don’t see how an amp can only work with one DAC.


Let me write them. I know one of my local dealers is bringing some of their DACs in. Will let you know what I find out.


----------



## ken6217

Sajid Amit said:


> I agree. I preferred the May to the Morpheus quite easily. If you need the pre-amp of the smaller one-box unit then that’s something else, but the pre-amp didn’t sound too great to me. 🤷‍♂️
> 
> The Dave offers a different perspective to the music than the May or the DF Terminator+.
> 
> ...


Everyone hears differently, and favors different things when listening to components.  I felt the other way around comparing the May to the Morpheus 

You can’t really compare MSB to the Dave. They are totally different ends of the sound spectrum.

I had the MSB Premier with their the upgraded Power Base during the Summer, but didn’t do anything for me. You have to step up to around $50k and above for their higher priced DAC’s.

I currently have the Totaldac d1-six, and it’s the best sounding R2R NOS sounding DAC I’ve heard.


----------



## Sajid Amit

ken6217 said:


> Everyone hears differently, and favors different things when listening to components.  I felt the other way around comparing the May to the Morpheus
> 
> You can’t really compare MSB to the Dave. They are totally different ends of the sound spectrum.
> 
> ...


Are you sure?

Cuz my man at ASR posits quite the opposite story: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...and-measurements-of-totaldac-d1-six-dac.8192/

I am joking of course, 😆


----------



## Sajid Amit

Sajid Amit said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> Cuz my man at ASR posits quite the opposite story: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...and-measurements-of-totaldac-d1-six-dac.8192/
> 
> I am joking of course, 😆


I don’t take Amir’s word for anything no worries. 🙂 I would rather trust fellow audiophiles on threads like these.


----------



## WafflesID

Sajid Amit said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> Cuz my man at ASR posits quite the opposite story: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...and-measurements-of-totaldac-d1-six-dac.8192/
> 
> I am joking of course, 😆


Knights of the Sinad.  Buy a topping and call it a day.


----------



## ken6217 (Nov 24, 2021)

Sajid Amit said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> Cuz my man at ASR posits quite the opposite story: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...and-measurements-of-totaldac-d1-six-dac.8192/
> 
> I am joking of do you know





Sajid Amit said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> Cuz my man at ASR posits quite the opposite story: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...and-measurements-of-totaldac-d1-six-dac.8192/
> 
> I am joking of course, 😆


It’s rare to find them say anything good about anything. For ASR, measurements testing is more important to them than listening.

Measurements mean nothing to me and I never even look at them. Take a look at tube amps. They measure poorly and can sound great. About 10 years ago the Revel Salon 2 was the hottest floor standing speaker. It was on the cover of Stereophile Magazine as the best tested speaker they’ve ever had. I was looking for new speakers and figured this was the speaker for me. I drove to Manhattan with a check in my pocket and went to Lyric HiFi. They set me up in a room with a Mark Levinson Reference CD player and DAC, and their big 33H mono blocks. I listened to three songs, got up and told Lenny the store owner, these are the worst speakers I’ve ever heard.

I only decide with my ears. Vincent had a demo unit. I got about 30% off. I had 20 days trial first, and chose to buy it. I don’t think you can go into any forum, and see any negative post about the sound quality of Totaldac.


----------



## cmarsili

Hi There, sorry to barge in into the conversation but I am looking to buy the Abyss and wonder if any of you tried it on an Audiovalve Luminare tube amp. Would it be a good matching or should I sell it and go for the formula S. Thanks in advance


----------



## Sajid Amit

ken6217 said:


> It’s rare to find them say anything good about anything. For ASR, measurements testing is more important to them than listening.
> 
> Measurements mean nothing to me and I never even look at them. Take a look at tube amps. They measure poorly and can sound great. About 10 years ago the Revel Salon 2 was the hottest floor standing speaker. It was on the cover of Stereophile Magazine as the best tested speaker they’ve ever had. I was looking for new speakers and figured this was the speaker for me. I drove to Manhattan with a check in my pocket and went to Lyric HiFi. They set me up in a room with a Mark Levinson Reference CD player and DAC, and their big 33H mono blocks. I listened to three songs, got up and told Lenny the store owner, these are the worst speakers I’ve ever heard.
> 
> I only decide with my ears. Vincent had a demo unit. I got about 30% off. I had 20 days trial first, and chose to buy it. I don’t think you can go into any forum, and see any negative post about the sound quality of Totaldac.


I agree. As Jason Stoddard says:

_"All of audiophilia is a search for the perfect distortion profile"_

Also just stole @Currawong's signature.


----------



## ken6217

Sajid Amit said:


> I agree. As Jason Stoddard says:
> 
> _"All of audiophilia is a search for the perfect distortion profile"_
> 
> Also just stole @Currawong's signature.


You silver tongued devil


----------



## qboogie

Anyone else in anticipation of when the number of thread pages reaches 1266?


----------



## ken6217

qboogie said:


> Anyone else in anticipation of when the number of thread pages reaches 1266?


You cheated. You must have a plant inside Abyss. The plan was to give everyone a 1266 TC when the page count reached 1266.


----------



## PhazeCrive

we should all comment the same thing on page 1266 until we hit 1267

maybe a phrase or a picture of our TC's


----------



## Frankie D

Sajid Amit said:


> On a different note, has anyone tried this?
> 
> https://www.msbtechnology.com/amplifiers/the-premier-headphone-amp/


Is this their $38,000 amp?  Seems a bit much for a HP amp, but MSB always charges a fortune.


----------



## jlbrach

Sajid Amit said:


> I don’t take Amir’s word for anything no worries. 🙂 I would rather trust fellow audiophiles on threads like these.


hey, just get the topping A90 and be done...I mean it measures well


----------



## Pastwa

I have been in love with 1266 since 2012 for the holography aspect, however, since then, the headphone industry moved on, so even with the latest 1266 TC, I see progress in transparency but it is not very impressive tbh, somewhere on the par with Stax 009. I have been spoiled (and didn't realize that till recently) with transparency that ATH 5lk can offer, which is a full step above, both SR1a and 1266 TC/Stax 009, that sound very transparent on their own (especially against some HD650 competition), but veiled and not very insightful next to the L5K and at that point ( I think that even Shangrila Sr would fall short, as the difference is that big), will wait for more breakthrough products. Ok I'm a transparency and music insight junky.  I'm very happy to spend more when the right product comes along, hopefully, next year, or soon. 

Anyway, I love your spirit folks, you never give up!


----------



## ken6217

Pastwa said:


> I have been in love with 1266 since 2012 for the holography aspect, however, since then, the headphone industry moved on, so even with the latest 1266 TC, I see progress in transparency but it is not very impressive tbh, somewhere on the par with Stax 009. I have been spoiled (and didn't realize that till recently) with transparency that ATH 5lk can offer, which is a full step above, both SR1a and 1266 TC/Stax 009, that sound very transparent on their own (especially against some HD650 competition), but veiled and not very insightful next to the L5K and at that point ( I think that even Shangrila Sr would fall short, as the difference is that big), will wait for more breakthrough products. Ok I'm a transparency and music insight junky.  I'm very happy to spend more when the right product comes along, hopefully, next year, or soon.
> 
> Anyway, I love your spirit folks, you never give up!


More accurate, you’ve moved on.


----------



## jlbrach

Pastwa said:


> I have been in love with 1266 since 2012 for the holography aspect, however, since then, the headphone industry moved on, so even with the latest 1266 TC, I see progress in transparency but it is not very impressive tbh, somewhere on the par with Stax 009. I have been spoiled (and didn't realize that till recently) with transparency that ATH 5lk can offer, which is a full step above, both SR1a and 1266 TC/Stax 009, that sound very transparent on their own (especially against some HD650 competition), but veiled and not very insightful next to the L5K and at that point ( I think that even Shangrila Sr would fall short, as the difference is that big), will wait for more breakthrough products. Ok I'm a transparency and music insight junky.  I'm very happy to spend more when the right product comes along, hopefully, next year, or soon.
> 
> Anyway, I love your spirit folks, you never give up!


sr1a doesnt sound veiled next to anything


----------



## Pastwa

Ok. The Sr1a may not sound veiled, but luck separation and insight in comparison. The texture in lower octaves is none existent dough because there are not much lower frequencies to show any details. Anyway, much more open and direct sounding than Stax 009S, the Stax however show much better bass (especially from Trilogy H1).


----------



## number1sixerfan

Yea... so there is only such much transparency that a system can accomplish. I cannot imagine a stronger sense of transparency/clarity than the 009/HE60/Sr1a. And the TC is right there with them, if not just very slightly behind. I have owned a lot of AT woodies, including the L3000, W5000, etc. and although I haven't heard the L5000, I'd be highly, highly surprised if it somehow improved on the transparency in any meaningful way over the others I just mentioned. That's just not going to happen with a wooded, (semi) closed back headphone. 

Also, there's a very obvious tradeoff between bass and perceived clarity, always has been and always will be. The TC are the only headphones I've come across that seems to defy gravity in that sense.


----------



## jlbrach

Pastwa said:


> Ok. The Sr1a may not sound veiled, but luck separation and insight in comparison. The texture in lower octaves is none existent dough because there are not much lower frequencies to show any details. Anyway, much more open and direct sounding than Stax 009S, the Stax however show much better bass (especially from Trilogy H1).


lack separation?...have you actually heard them?


----------



## Pastwa

jlbrach said:


> lack separation?...have you actually heard them?


Have you heard the ~L5k ? The Sr1a are great in certain aspects (texture, openness), definitely better than 009S when it comes to the sound definition and spatial placement, but again, it all depends on what is your reference point here. I have just ordered the Stax 9k, very curious how they would perform, not expecting miraculous dough, probably slightly behind the famous Omegas.


----------



## joshUKUSA

A set of the OG 1266 have popped up on ebay for a pretty reasonable price which rarely happens in the UK so tempted to pull the trigger, how do they stack up to the current version and other headphones on the market given their age?

Also previously owned a diana v2 which I didn't rate at all so slightly unsure about abyss in general now


----------



## PhilipB

Pastwa said:


> Ok. The Sr1a may not sound veiled, but luck separation and insight in comparison. The texture in lower octaves is none existent dough because there are not much lower frequencies to show any details. Anyway, much more open and direct sounding than Stax 009S, the Stax however show much better bass (especially from Trilogy H1).


Is that Hifonix in Sutton Coldfield? Love it there.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Nov 27, 2021)

The Abyss AB-1266 OG with the SC cables is pretty impressive in its own right.





Was curious about the OG so got it in for an audition.


----------



## MatW

Never mind..


----------



## MacedonianHero

jlbrach said:


> lack separation?...have you actually heard them?


Agreed. To my ears they smoke the SR-009/009S in this regard (both the SR1a and AB1266 Phi TC)...and bass when played through the HSA-1b is simply amazingly satisfying for me (for both headphones).


----------



## deuter

Sajid Amit said:


> The Abyss AB-1266 OG with the SC cables is pretty impressive in its own right.
> 
> 
> 
> Was curious about the OG so got it in for an audition.


The OG is a richer tone then TC sacrificing on additional detail, dynamics etc.


----------



## Pastwa

For me, the SR1a bass would have been 'amazingly satisfying' also if the headphones didn't simply cut off all the frequencies below 40Hz so drastically. When I played via the HSA-1b (and Chord TT2) the Cradle to the grave (from Hostilities) the details in the lowest octave are simply lost (you can't hear it, unlike from the Abyss, Audeze, Susvaras, and many others, even Stax 009S did show a bit more there), other than that, SR1a are great, great headphones if you appreciate such a presentation. Definitely, worth auditioning first, like with every hifi gear.


----------



## briantrinh86

MacedonianHero said:


> Agreed. To my ears they smoke the SR-009/009S in this regard (both the SR1a and AB1266 Phi TC)...and bass when played through the HSA-1b is simply amazingly satisfying for me (for both headphones).


how well the hsa-1b pair with ab1266 phi tc. is it better than fomular s+pm or benchmark hpa4? thanks


----------



## jlbrach

it is quite good but not as good as the formula s/powerman but few if any amps are with the abyss...that said if you have both the abyss and the sr1a the 1B will more than admirably drive the abyss


----------



## buke9

joshUKUSA said:


> A set of the OG 1266 have popped up on ebay for a pretty reasonable price which rarely happens in the UK so tempted to pull the trigger, how do they stack up to the current version and other headphones on the market given their age?
> 
> Also previously owned a diana v2 which I didn't rate at all so slightly unsure about abyss in general now


I have a pair of OG’s that I got in early 2018 and strangely enough from someone in London for $2K and if you can get them for that or less buy them now as I have not regretted that purchase for a millisecond. I had the chance just a couple of months ago at a meet to try them next to a very new pair of TC’s and yes I do think the TC’s sound a bit better but it is a bit and I didn’t think to myself damn my OG’s sound like crap now that I got to get the TC’s as they still are a fantastic sounding headphone.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Nov 28, 2021)

deuter said:


> The OG is a richer tone then TC sacrificing on additional detail, dynamics etc.


Yes, the mids sound more natural. Surprised there isn’t as much hype around it as there is with other flagships of yesteryears that have subsequently been updated.

Yes, it’s still close to the TC, but for many TC fanatics, I would think it would be a nice collector’s item, especially given the OG’s mids.

I am sure these collectors exist but still….

I am a bit tempted by the OG, lol. A local guy selling it for less than $2K.

Wish there was more of a secondary/tertiary market for it.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Nov 27, 2021)

joshUKUSA said:


> A set of the OG 1266 have popped up on ebay for a pretty reasonable price which rarely happens in the UK so tempted to pull the trigger, how do they stack up to the current version and other headphones on the market given their age?
> 
> Also previously owned a diana v2 which I didn't rate at all so slightly unsure about abyss in general now


I didn’t like the V2. Sold it off promptly. Joshua V hype train, lol. The V2 sounded good / synergized well *only* off my DAP, the Kann Alpha.

Meanwhile, the OG is a good headphone. Impressive even. 

I agree with @deuter on the OG presentation and differences viz.a.viz the TC.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

briantrinh86 said:


> how well the hsa-1b pair with ab1266 phi tc. is it better than fomular s+pm or benchmark hpa4? thanks



Had compared them side by side (with Phi TC and Diana Phi), my choice easily goes to Formual S (even without powerman). Formula create bigger soundstage, clearer separation, while a the same time being fuller and smoother. HSA-1B being more forward, aggressive, throw more energy, but slight less resolution.


----------



## jlbrach

I think the 1B is better with the abyss than you express but I do agree the formula s especially with powerman is exceptional with the abyss


----------



## Dynamo5561

buke9 said:


> yes I do think the TC’s sound a bit better but it is a bit and I didn’t think to myself damn my OG’s sound like crap now that I got to get the TC’s as they still are a fantastic sounding headphone.





Sajid Amit said:


> Yes, it’s still close to the TC, but for many TC fanatics, I would think it would be a nice collector’s item, especially given the OG’s mids.



I fully agree. I feel also many exagerate the differences in technicalities, they are really quite close. The tonality differs, the TC is more netural but both complement each other for rotational listening very well! I think the OG is one of the best headphones money can buy in the second hand market (ofc if you can find one).


----------



## paradoxper

Y'all gonna flip the market.


----------



## deuter

Dynamo5561 said:


> I fully agree. I feel also many exagerate the differences in technicalities, they are really quite close. The tonality differs, the TC is more netural but both complement each other for rotational listening very well! I think the OG is one of the best headphones money can buy in the second hand market (ofc if you can find one).


That's exactly why I haven't bought a TC, I don't want a more neutral sounding OG 
OG tuning is what got Abyss on the Headphone map and I don't was to screw to original tuning.


----------



## Roasty

The Meze Elite sounds really good. But just don't listen to it side by side with the 1266 TC Phi..


----------



## mitchb

Roasty said:


> The Meze Elite sounds really good. But just don't listen to it side by side with the 1266 TC Phi..


I feel the same way about my LCD4 headphones which sound good and are a good compliment to my TC’s but the TC’s are my go to headphones.


----------



## ajreynol (Nov 29, 2021)

I'd like to compare a pair of TC's to my LCD-5's that I have on loan to help me make a decision as to whether LCD-5 is the one or if I should move on a TC. Anyone in the Ft. Lauderdale / Coral Springs, FL area that wouldn't mind hosting a demo?

I'm curious to know how the TC's could do as a daily driver, 6+ hours a day during work and then play after 5.


----------



## Pashmeister

ajreynol said:


> I'd like to compare a pair of TC's to my LCD-5's that I have on loan to help me make a decision as to whether LCD-5 is the one or if I should move on a TC. Anyone in the Ft. Lauderdale / Coral Springs, FL area that wouldn't mind hosting a demo?
> 
> I'm curious to know how the TC's could do as a daily driver, 6+ hours a day during work and then play after 5.


Oof I love the TC but I don’t think my neck can handle 6+ hours plus play afterwards. Not just bec they’re on the heavier side but also because they don’t have a clamp and only sits on top of your head. So freedom or movement can be a bit limited. LCD-5 I could wear for that long.


----------



## ajreynol

Pashmeister said:


> Oof I love the TC but I don’t think my neck can handle 6+ hours plus play afterwards. Not just bec they’re on the heavier side but also because they don’t have a clamp and only sits on top of your head. So freedom or movement can be a bit limited. LCD-5 I could wear for that long.


I don't think the weight would be too much of an issue for me: I've been wearing LCD-4's for 8+ hours/day for 4 years now. Those are about the same weight as the TC's. Gotten used to the weight, no prob.

I do wonder about freedom of movement, though. I don't move that much at my work desk. Left, right, slightly down. Typical desk job. But that's really it.


----------



## Pashmeister

ajreynol said:


> I don't think the weight would be too much of an issue for me: I've been wearing LCD-4's for 8+ hours/day for 4 years now. Those are about the same weight as the TC's. Gotten used to the weight, no prob.
> 
> I do wonder about freedom of movement, though. I don't move that much at my work desk. Left, right, slightly down. Typical desk job. But that's really it.


Yeah I don’t really mind the weight all that much, just the freedom of movement bit. Shifting your head can make the TC slide a bit. Could get annoying even for the simple stuff like looking down to check phone, moving head side to side while viewing a spreadsheet on a wide screen monitor, sitting back and reclining for a second, etc.


----------



## Whazzzup

I can’t recline? Even a little? I mean th900 is loose so if you look down, it may slide off but it’s lite so it generally is not a problem. How problematic is wearability. I don’t listen for hours and hours at a time, but my go to hd800S is comfortable and reclinable.


----------



## PhazeCrive

If you were able to secure a Formula S with Powerman for 4,000 dollars or get a CFA3 at a similar price, which would be the better deal? I only ever hear good things about both amps so the choice is hard.


----------



## Pashmeister

Whazzzup said:


> I can’t recline? Even a little? I mean th900 is loose so if you look down, it may slide off but it’s lite so it generally is not a problem. How problematic is wearability. I don’t listen for hours and hours at a time, but my go to hd800S is comfortable and reclinable.


You can recline a bit if your chair has a headrest that can support the TC. But u would know that the TC is also resting on that headrest.


----------



## Darkliner

PhazeCrive said:


> If you were able to secure a Formula S with Powerman for 4,000 dollars or get a CFA3 at a similar price, which would be the better deal? I only ever hear good things about both amps so the choice is hard.


Are you able to audition either or both of them?


----------



## PhazeCrive

Darkliner said:


> Are you able to audition either or both of them?


Sadly not.


----------



## Darkliner

PhazeCrive said:


> Sadly not.


Well then, i see in your sig you have diana v2, my vote will go for the formula s and powerman, this amp is fantastic with abyss and diana headphones.


----------



## JLoud

Whazzzup said:


> I can’t recline? Even a little? I mean th900 is loose so if you look down, it may slide off but it’s lite so it generally is not a problem. How problematic is wearability. I don’t listen for hours and hours at a time, but my go to hd800S is comfortable and reclinable.


I listen to my TC while reclining all the time. But I do have to adjust the headphone every time I move.  It is really my only major complaint with the 1266. If I’m just sitting at my desk on the internet, no problem. But if I’m working on paperwork or something, the TC is a no go.


----------



## paradoxper

PhazeCrive said:


> If you were able to secure a Formula S with Powerman for 4,000 dollars or get a CFA3 at a similar price, which would be the better deal? I only ever hear good things about both amps so the choice is hard.


I am a Gilmore shill but also have heard and owned them all. I also evaluate by the numeric topology and parts quality. 

The CFA3 is all around the better performer but the Formula S is warmer and warm sounding.

From a design, the Formula S is a hack. But so is Wells Audio and he's captured a bunch of silly boys as his fans.

Shrugs.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> I am a Gilmore shill but also have heard and owned them all. I also evaluate by the numeric topology and parts quality.
> 
> The CFA3 is all around the better performer but the Formula S is warmer and warm sounding.
> 
> ...


On the flipside of the coin, there are people that like that sound signature of the Formula S or Wells. 

I think silly boys are the ones that pay $12,000-$16,000 on a WA33.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> On the flipside of the coin, there are people that like that sound signature of the Formula S or Wells.
> 
> I think silly boys are the ones that pay $12,000-$16,000 on a WA33.


Which is fine. For that sound. You can also obtain that sound for, well, far less, it is an inferior design.

Those whom buy WA33 are clueless. When Stellaris, Studio, Primavera are of consideration. 

Whatever prestige, or flavor. It's like a horween v cordovan v plastic.

And it is just one opinion.


----------



## QuantumKat (Nov 29, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> Which is fine. For that sound. You can also obtain that sound for, well, far less, it is an inferior design.
> 
> Those whom buy WA33 are clueless. When Stellaris, Studio, Primavera are of consideration.
> 
> ...


You're not of the opinion a top tier tube amp is superior or preferable to high level solid state amps? Or that WA33 is better than these others?


----------



## paradoxper

QuantumKat said:


> You're not of the opinion a top tier tube amp is superior or preferable to high level solid state amps?


I'm of the opinion it all starts with the transducer for qualifiers.


----------



## paradoxper (Nov 29, 2021)

QuantumKat said:


> Or that WA33 is better than these others?


The most important qualifier for a tube amp is how good is the transformer. Trafomatic wounds some of the best transformers themselves, DNA employs Audio Note transformers. Start there.


----------



## ken6217

QuantumKat said:


> You're not of the opinion a top tier tube amp is superior or preferable to high level solid state amps? Or that WA33 is better than these others?


It’s a personal preference if you like solid state better than tube, or vice versa. There is no correct answer.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> The most important qualifier for a tube amp is how good is the transformer. Trafomatic wounds some of the best transformers themselves, DNA employs Audio Note transformers. Start there.


But you have to like the tubes employed in the first place. For me personally, I don’t like 2A3 tubes no matter who uses them.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> But you have to like the tubes employed in the first place. For me personally, I don’t like 2A3 tubes no matter who uses them.


I didn't say it's the only consideration. But it's certainly the foundation for a performance ceiling.


----------



## littlej0e (Nov 29, 2021)

PhazeCrive said:


> If you were able to secure a Formula S with Powerman for 4,000 dollars or get a CFA3 at a similar price, which would be the better deal? I only ever hear good things about both amps so the choice is hard.


Get a CFA3. It's an absolute steal for how well it performs relative to it's price (which should cost significantly less than 4k). Plus, if you don't like it you can almost certainly flip it at, or very close, to cost here on head-fi. I also found the CFA3 to be _highly_ reactive to whatever you put around it; headphones, cabling, DACs, preamps, etc., so you can likely dial it in to suite your individual preferences.



ken6217 said:


> But you have to like the tubes employed in the first place. For me personally, I don’t like 2A3 tubes no matter who uses them.


I'll bite. Why don't you care for the 2A3 tubes?


----------



## ken6217

littlej0e said:


> Get a CFA3. It's an absolute steal for how well it performs relative to it's price (which should cost significantly less than 4k). Plus, if you don't like it you can almost certainly flip it at, or very close, to cost here on head-fi. I also found the CFA3 to be _highly_ reactive to whatever you put around it; headphones, cabling, DACs, preamps, etc., so you can likely dial it in to suite your individual preferences.
> 
> 
> I'll bite. Why don't you care for the 2A3 tubes?


Too delicate a sound for me.  I feel that way about WA33 and the fferings from Eddie Current last and present. On the other hand, thr EC Balancing Act sounded very very good. That was 300B however.


----------



## ken6217

And I’ll double down on it. 2A3 sounds too thin for me.


----------



## jlbrach

Roasty said:


> The Meze Elite sounds really good. But just don't listen to it side by side with the 1266 TC Phi..


yes night and day


----------



## ajreynol

JLoud said:


> I listen to my TC while reclining all the time. But I do have to adjust the headphone every time I move.  It is really my only major complaint with the 1266. If I’m just sitting at my desk on the internet, no problem. But if I’m working on paperwork or something, the TC is a no go.


hmmm. this feels like very bad news. 

I'd really like to try these somewhere. They recommended going through The Cable Company, but even then that's $250 for the "rental". 

I suppose if there's no other choice, that's what I'll do. If for no other reason than peace of mind, knowing that I heard it and made a decision based on what I heard.


----------



## Delta9K (Nov 30, 2021)

So, a 1266tc arrived earlier this evening on a very generous loan. Looking forward to spending some quality time with this piece, my library and setup.


----------



## normie610

ken6217 said:


> Too delicate a sound for me.  I feel that way about WA33 and the fferings from Eddie Current last and present. On the other hand, thr EC Balancing Act sounded very very good. That was 300B however.


Long live 300B


----------



## Larent

Hi everybody, it's been now two years that i bought the TC , and i m very happy with it , i compared him with several others , Kennerton, Utopia, Susvara, but it stayed , he survived ... But in my system, it's a bit edgy sometimes, makes that for a long listening session, it might be a bit , a touch fatiguing . And thanks to a friend, who loaned me his SC cable,  ( super conductor ) , it transformed it to a really really good sound stage, to be honnest one of the best i ve heard . The SC cable is ...3000 euros or usd,  and the price of the TC is about or around 5500 euros . I can't afford the cable , for the time being, would somebody advise or give a piece of advice for an aftermarket cable , coming from other people , who make cable, that might approach the level of the SC ?  Thanks for kind help on this guys ...


----------



## smutnyjoe

Roasty said:


> The Meze Elite sounds really good. But just don't listen to it side by side with the 1266 TC Phi..


Oh no, I planned to buy Elites to use when I'm not using TC. For example, for 6hours of work in front of my computer. Now I'm afraid that it can be quite a shock


----------



## smutnyjoe

Larent said:


> Hi everybody, it's been now two years that i bought the TC , and i m very happy with it , i compared him with several others , Kennerton, Utopia, Susvara, but it stayed , he survived ... But in my system, it's a bit edgy sometimes, makes that for a long listening session, it might be a bit , a touch fatiguing . And thanks to a friend, who loaned me his SC cable,  ( super conductor ) , it transformed it to a really really good sound stage, to be honnest one of the best i ve heard . The SC cable is ...3000 euros or usd,  and the price of the TC is about or around 5500 euros . I can't afford the cable , for the time being, would somebody advise or give a piece of advice for an aftermarket cable , coming from other people , who make cable, that might approach the level of the SC ?  Thanks for kind help on this guys ...


Arctic Cables Palladium (old series) cable helped me in a similar situation, but I don't know if that works in your case as it was also quite expensive


----------



## Whazzzup

Larent said:


> Hi everybody, it's been now two years that i bought the TC , and i m very happy with it , i compared him with several others , Kennerton, Utopia, Susvara, but it stayed , he survived ... But in my system, it's a bit edgy sometimes, makes that for a long listening session, it might be a bit , a touch fatiguing . And thanks to a friend, who loaned me his SC cable,  ( super conductor ) , it transformed it to a really really good sound stage, to be honnest one of the best i ve heard . The SC cable is ...3000 euros or usd,  and the price of the TC is about or around 5500 euros . I can't afford the cable , for the time being, would somebody advise or give a piece of advice for an aftermarket cable , coming from other people , who make cable, that might approach the level of the SC ?  Thanks for kind help on this guys ...


Dhc but a prion 4 6ft will be 2500 usd so premium cables are at that price point


----------



## jaboki

Whazzzup said:


> Dhc but a prion 4 6ft will be 2500 usd so premium cables are at that price point


How's the ergonomics of the DHC Prion without a splitter? I just realized it has no splitter.


----------



## stemiki

Larent said:


> Hi everybody, it's been now two years that i bought the TC , and i m very happy with it , i compared him with several others , Kennerton, Utopia, Susvara, but it stayed , he survived ... But in my system, it's a bit edgy sometimes, makes that for a long listening session, it might be a bit , a touch fatiguing . And thanks to a friend, who loaned me his SC cable,  ( super conductor ) , it transformed it to a really really good sound stage, to be honnest one of the best i ve heard . The SC cable is ...3000 euros or usd,  and the price of the TC is about or around 5500 euros . I can't afford the cable , for the time being, would somebody advise or give a piece of advice for an aftermarket cable , coming from other people , who make cable, that might approach the level of the SC ?  Thanks for kind help on this guys ...


There is a guy here in Italy who makes cusom cables at fair prices, around 250 Euros. A month ago he sent me some cables to compare them with the SC. In the past I had tried other custom cables but the result was disappointing. Among these I found one very, very similar to the SC. The difference in my ear is really minimal. 
If you are interested I will put you in touch.


----------



## Whazzzup (Nov 30, 2021)

jaboki said:


> How's the ergonomics of the DHC Prion without a splitter? I just realized it has no splitter.


Evidently you can buy splitter, you can customize all you want or want to spend.  My cable balanced so each channel is light and manageable.


----------



## Whazzzup

———


----------



## jaboki

Whazzzup said:


> Evidently you can buy splitter, you can customize all you want or want to spend.  My cable balanced so each channel is light and manageable.


That's super interesting. Does it ever feel like it's getting tangled while putting it on or putting it away?


----------



## Whazzzup

Not at all, it kinda just hangs under its own weight….it’s not super bendy probably the braid


----------



## JLoud

I found the NorneAudio cables nice with the TC. I had the SC and the Norne at the same time. If you find the TC a little fatiguing, I would consider a large gauge copper cable from Norne. I sold the SC and kept the Norne. YMMV


----------



## smutnyjoe (Nov 30, 2021)

I'm using TT2 + 1266TC. I'm satisfied, even more after replacing the original cable with Arctic Cables. However, I'd like to try a tube amp (I've never used any). What would you recommend to include in my rig?
* it can be slightly warm (I mean sound  because I'm afraid all tube amps are physically warm )
* it has to cost less than WA33

I'm a newbie in tube amps, so I need a hint


----------



## JLoud

I had and enjoyed the Woo WA6se. Drove the TC just fine. The WA5le was even better, but it is a beast size wise. Also 2 1/2 times as much $$.


----------



## tholt

JLoud said:


> I found the NorneAudio cables nice with the TC. I had the SC and the Norne at the same time. If you find the TC a little fatiguing, I would consider a large gauge copper cable from Norne. I sold the SC and kept the Norne. YMMV


Good tip. I went to their website and picked up their all-copper Drausk cable to try. 20% black friday sale in effect, nice bonus


JLoud said:


> I had and enjoyed the Woo WA6se. Drove the TC just fine. The WA5le was even better, but it is a beast size wise. Also 2 1/2 times as much $$.


Have to disagree with the WA6SE. I read a while back someone else had good results with this amp. I was skeptical but tried it. It just doesn't have enough juice. Things sounded really thin and bleached out to me. The WA22 was better, but not by much.


----------



## TonyTripleA

smutnyjoe said:


> I'm using TT2 + 1266TC. I'm satisfied, even more after replacing the original cable with Arctic Cables. However, I'd like to try a tube amp (I've never used any). What would you recommend to include in my rig?
> * it can be slightly warm (I mean sound  because I'm afraid all tube amps are physically warm )
> * it has to cost less than WA33
> 
> I'm a newbie in tube amps, so I need a hint


As a suggestion for a suitable tube amp I bought the Auris Nirvana In preparation for my 1266 arriving. In the mean time  I’m finding it excellent with the Focal Utopia and HD800. A lot of power on tap which is part of the reason I bought it - they advertise being able to drive any headphone and from what I’ve read here that appears to be the case.

For comparison, I had a bigger Ben for a short time and the Nirvana handled bass with much less distortion, and has good bass slam. Similarly, treble “sparkles” considerably more and especially after I popped in a 1970s replacement tube for the standard JJ input tube. Love the non fatiguing nature of a good tube amp.

I also like the separate solid state power supply. Provides very low noise - I have heard some artefacts from tube rectified power supplies. The amp is dead quite with sensitive Utopias. Also great build quality.  It’s simply the best tube amp I’ve tried but I haven’t been brave enough to audition the WA33 yet - my wallet is thanking me so far, but to be honest I’m so satisfied with the Nirvana I’ll be sticking with it Most likely ( I’ve said that before though).

But when the 1266 arrives I’ll update my impressions. Shipping to Australia is crazy slow….

T


----------



## Kashtan

Best portable rig for 1266? Example - analog audio square, Bakoon HPA-01М, romi audio blx-2, kobi, diablo, M30, 390, yinlumei W1.


----------



## LevPush

Hello fellow 1266 owners, does anyone know how much it would cost to repair one driver out of warranty? Asking for a friend…


----------



## jlbrach

they do not repair one driver, they repair both even if only one fails so that they match...or so I have been told


----------



## paradoxper

LevPush said:


> Hello fellow 1266 owners, does anyone know how much it would cost to repair one driver out of warranty? Asking for a friend…


IIRC it was bandied to be around $1k per driver. However, I, too, was also under the impressions you only worked with replacement pairs.

It's also why for out of warranty servicing, you should definitely be contacting the manufacturer directly.


----------



## LevPush

paradoxper said:


> IIRC it was bandied to be around $1k per driver. However, I, too, was also under the impressions you only worked with replacement pairs.
> 
> It's also why for out of warranty servicing, you should definitely be contacting the manufacturer directly.


Thanks for that. My friend wants to pull the trigger on a soon to be out of warranty pair, so he’s trying to evaluate the risk and the cost of it. Cheers


----------



## paradoxper

LevPush said:


> Thanks for that. My friend wants to pull the trigger on a soon to be out of warranty pair, so he’s trying to evaluate the risk and the cost of it. Cheers


May you clarify the market price and working condition of this pair. We can help you obtain a TC under better pricing for consideration.


----------



## Pashmeister

Just wanna quickly share that I am listening to the Burson Soloist Grand Tourer with the TC and I love it. Wow what a great sounding powerful amp. It arrived a couple of weeks late and before it arrived I thought I would return/sell it for the Oor+Hypsos but nope this is a keeper. 

Hope to get used to the sucky controls after a few days. The fan is controversial but I don’t hear it with my use in my environment. All things considered, I find it to be a bargain.


----------



## qboogie (Dec 2, 2021)

Pashmeister said:


> Just wanna quickly share that I am listening to the Burson Soloist Grand Tourer with the TC and I love it. Wow what a great sounding powerful amp. It arrived a couple of weeks late and before it arrived I thought I would return/sell it for the Oor+Hypsos but nope this is a keeper.
> 
> Hope to get used to the sucky controls after a few days. The fan is controversial but I don’t hear it with my use in my environment. All things considered, I find it to be a bargain.



How does it compare to the TT2 direct? The GT looks very cool and capable. Would be nice to have another amp to drive this that isn't the formula S, WA33 or the usuals


----------



## Pashmeister (Dec 2, 2021)

qboogie said:


> How does it compare to the TT2 direct?


I don’t really consider listening to Abyss with TT2 direct anymore; it just seems to me like it gets TC up to only 85% of what it can give. GT is a better overall. And I love TC with tubes which I cannot achieve with TT2 only.


----------



## thomasu

Has anyone bought from The Cable Co. recently? I've tried inquiring about getting the Superconductor cable in for audition, but I haven't heard back in almost a week


----------



## joseph69

thomasu said:


> Has anyone bought from The Cable Co. recently? I've tried inquiring about getting the Superconductor cable in for audition, but I haven't heard back in almost a week


I don't believe TCC loans out headphone cables because there are too many variables.


----------



## Ciggavelli

thomasu said:


> Has anyone bought from The Cable Co. recently? I've tried inquiring about getting the Superconductor cable in for audition, but I haven't heard back in almost a week


It might be holiday related.


----------



## PhazeCrive

There's no shortage of the praises of the TC's bass but how does that bass coming from the Formula S with Powerman sound? Does it hit hard like advertised and does it go subterraneanly deep, even below 20hz?

That putting out ike 2.5 watts seems a little lean for 1266's demands. I am willing to stretch budget for that amp if it delivers on the bass like nothing else.


----------



## PhazeCrive (Dec 4, 2021)

.


----------



## jlbrach (Dec 4, 2021)

PhazeCrive said:


> There's no shortage of the praises of the TC's bass but how does that bass coming from the Formula S with Powerman sound? Does it hit hard like advertised and does it go subterraneanly deep, even below 20hz?
> 
> That putting out ike 2.5 watts seems a little lean for 1266's demands. I am willing to stretch budget for that amp if it delivers on the bass like nothing else.


the combo was made for the 1266 TC it is outstanding in every way and yes the bass hits hard..dont let the watts fool you I have listened to more powerful amps that couldnt measure up to the formula s/powerman combo....fwiiw the powerman is a must for best results


----------



## Vanheim

Hi, good folks, I’m looking for a good price on the abyss 1266 phi TC, can anyone recommend good USA dealers? Willing to also go used, if you’re willing to let yours go, PM me please.


----------



## OceanRanger

jlbrach said:


> the combo was made for the 1266 TC it is outstanding in every way and yes the bass hits hard..dont let the watts fool you I have listened to more powerful amps that couldnt measure up to the formula s/powerman combo....fwiiw the powerman is a must for best results


There is no substitute for you own ears. A system's components and your own preferences mean so much in this space. I am a huge believer in listen to as much as you can and then decide what suits you the best.


----------



## DJJEZ

Vanheim said:


> Hi, good folks, I’m looking for a good price on the abyss 1266 phi TC, can anyone recommend good USA dealers? Willing to also go used, if you’re willing to let yours go, PM me please.


Your not gonna find them for less than $4500 from a dealer


----------



## PhazeCrive

Why is there so little information about the sagra? What do you guys pair with the formula s and 1266?


----------



## vonBaron

Because Sagra is average DAC, for this price there are better option.


----------



## PhazeCrive (Dec 6, 2021)

I'd imagine a denafrips venus being amazing in this price range, but idk about the pairing with the Formula


----------



## paradoxper

DJJEZ said:


> Your not gonna find them for less than $4500 from a dealer


Wrong.


----------



## DJJEZ

paradoxper said:


> Wrong.


----------



## paradoxper

DJJEZ said:


>


I prove it those whom are in the market. Ask them.


----------



## ken6217

DJJEZ said:


>


Why should anyone do the homework for you? Don’t be lazy.


----------



## paradoxper (Dec 6, 2021)

Anyways, @jlbrach is bitching at me through PM as he always does, so let's move the discussion on.

I'm sick of the whining.


----------



## You Kay

PhazeCrive said:


> Why is there so little information about the sagra? What do you guys pair with the formula s and 1266?


Not spoken about enough. I think the headphone world doesn’t give source components the respect they deserve. I think this may have something to do with speakers being able to layer the sound better than headphones. But then headphones don’t have a crossover or room to contend with so this is just my guess. 

I for one will be pairing the 1266 with Oor-Hypsos and sw1x dac III Bal.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The Sagra DAC uses lower tier Soekris parts. That's all. Nothing surprising though, is it? 
I'd rather get a DAC2541 for less money. And if that's too cheap for you, there are nice PSU upgrades in the DYI community.


----------



## Roasty

Managed to have a listen to the ferrum oor + hypsos combo with my 1266 TC Phi + Superconductor cable today. 

The Ferrum combo is superb with the 1266. If the 1266 is your main headphone, do consider the Ferrum combo. Especially if u need something small in size. Simply wow..! Such a black background. So clean and detailed, yet slightly warm and so musical. 

If u also have the Susvara, then I will hold back a bit on the recommendation.. I also brought my Susvara to have a listen and it just felt like it was lacking a bit on the low end. It was not as wow a moment with the Sus as it was with the abyss.


----------



## Whazzzup

Roasty said:


> Managed to have a listen to the ferrum oor + hypsos combo with my 1266 TC Phi + Superconductor cable today.
> 
> The Ferrum combo is superb with the 1266. If the 1266 is your main headphone, do consider the Ferrum combo. Especially if u need something small in size. Simply wow..! Such a black background. So clean and detailed, yet slightly warm and so musical.
> 
> If u also have the Susvara, then I will hold back a bit on the recommendation.. I also brought my Susvara to have a listen and it just felt like it was lacking a bit on the low end. It was not as wow a moment with the Sus as it was with the abyss.


Your not alone, insert hd800S instead of abyss. Harmonic warmth is susvara.


----------



## mitchb

The Niimbus makes my 1266 TC’s sing. It also runs my LCD4 headphones nicely. The Niimbus is nice but pricey.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Does anyone know where to find resolves equalizer settings for the TC.  I generally do not use EQ- but I want to try...


----------



## genefruit

rsbrsvp said:


> Does anyone know where to find resolves equalizer settings for the TC.  I generally do not use EQ- but I want to try...


I don't believe he ever published one but he did suggest a -3 @ 1khz and wanted feedback on that thought.  Others have adopted/modified ASR's suggested EQ as well.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Thanks.

It's funny- I love Resolves EQ settings for the LCD-5.  I think it is a serious improvement.  But I totally disagree with their viewpoint on the TC which I think is a tremendously good headphone.  So I was hoping they had a TC eq. setting as well.


----------



## MatW

IMHO Resolve did not use the TC as required to be able to evaluate it properly. He used it as a 'normal headphone', without an air gap.

As for EQ, I've tried a few settings but none really stuck. I'm using the TC without EQ.


----------



## FooFighter

I agree about not needing any equ 
Some might know this review?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../abyss-ab-1266-phi-tc-review-headphone.23411/

An equ is specified here too for best results, haven't tried it though


----------



## You Kay

IMO if you’re eq’ing you’ve collected the wrong gear. Even for headphones.


----------



## QuantumKat

You Kay said:


> IMO if you’re eq’ing you’ve collected the wrong gear. Even for headphones.


That's a nonsense take. Stunningly bad.


----------



## You Kay

QuantumKat said:


> That's a nonsense take. Stunningly bad.


Nonsensical to you but I have tried plenty of eq curves and never been satisfied. Matching up the right equipment to get the sound I want has worked better for me. ‘Stunningly bad’? You don’t have to prove it to yourself, I said IMO.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I have tried every equalizer suggestion I could get for every headphone I have ever owned- and I have always found it harmed the sound IMHO.

The LCD-5 may be the first headphone I have ever tried EQ that I like- but I still need more time to be sure.  I am skeptical based on my past experience that my EQ will last long term.


----------



## jaboki

The good thing about EQ is that every human ear is different and it gives the opportunity for the individual to fine tune the sound to what they individually believe sounds good to them.

The issue with EQ is that you need to somewhat know what you're doing depending on the EQ product complexity because it can potentially make it sound worse. e.g. APO/Peace (complex) vs Loki/us (simple). Additionally, some people even mess up with simple EQ settings


----------



## Whazzzup

Personally a great music server negates the need to eq anything. IMO. The music sounds better without having frequencies push out other frequencies. The problem is eq is a cheap fast solution to try and make the sound do something you might enjoy.


----------



## Womaz

I dont think we should knock or snipe at people who equalise. It is their cash so it is their choice, but I dont know why anyone would want to EQ the Abyss or any other TOTL headphone for that matter.


----------



## Delta9K

mitchb said:


> The Niimbus makes my 1266 TC’s sing. It also runs my LCD4 headphones nicely. The Niimbus is nice but pricey.


Abyss 1266 Phi TC is actually sounding very good to me, working from a Violectric v550.


----------



## FooFighter

Last comment about equ.
After listening for some hours to TC and then switch to another headphone I rather feel like I need to equ that other headphone to enjoy it.
Mostly I need to start listening to other headphones as a fresh start on another day to enjoy their unique signatures.
This is true even for Susvara in my case.


----------



## vonBaron

Delta9K said:


> Abyss 1266 Phi TC is actually sounding very good to me, working from a Violectric v550.


V550 is great with 1266. It add some warm and body to them.


----------



## paradoxper

rsbrsvp said:


> I have tried every equalizer suggestion I could get for every headphone I have ever owned- and I have always found it harmed the sound IMHO.
> 
> The LCD-5 may be the first headphone I have ever tried EQ that I like- but I still need more time to be sure.  I am skeptical based on my past experience that my EQ will last long term.


Nods. I just brought in a Loki Max -- it does very little for TC. Better off rounding things out per tube amplification.
LCD-5 benefited more from EQ but is not on the level of TC. Playing with a VC with the Loki was a very goldilock experience.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Dec 12, 2021)

Problem with EQ is more of an issue with high-end DACs. I am not a purist and I think you should make any changes that sound good, however, when I EQ with Dave/Mscaler, the depth of the stage collapses. I don't know if it's Roon's DSP or just EQ in general. I would think that the best alternative would be the Loki Max, as its effect is only in the analog domain - but based on @paradoxper's post - it's either not enough, or has the same issues as DSP. Though I agree with him that tubes work well to round things out. I think the TC sounds best on Tubes for my personal tastes (I have absolutely no need to EQ with my current setup), though SS does have it's adavantages.

I'm very curious about purchasing an LCD-5. I've been an Audeze fan boy since I got into this hobby, previously owned the LCD-3 for quite some time, and currently own the LCD-4, and upgraded 2021 LCD-XC, as well as the Audeze Sine - which is my favorite portable headphone. That said, almost every review I've seen said to EQ the LCD-5. I've tried Audeze's DSP in Roon, and always end up turning it off. Resolve says your missing out. @Currawong - at least - says he achieved a bit of softening through his Studio 6 - so maybe my Wa33 would have the same effect.

Now that Audeze is discontinuing the LCD-4 (at least that's what I read somewhere), I am definitely not going to trade it in. I love that headphone - sound and looks - and you won't be able to get a new one soon. If I buy an LCD-5 it has to be enough of a complement to the LCD-4 and my other headphones to keep. All that being said, I still listen to the Abyss 85-90% of the time, and the Susvara and LCD-4 can't pull me away other than for a change of pace. I'm looking for a headphone that, while different, makes me want to rotate more frequently. The Abyss TC is so good, I don't know if I can find it. Maybe the Sr1a? Looking forward to CanJam this year so I can hear some of these at least, even in show conditions. It's how I ended up with the Abyss TC, and I wasn't looking.


----------



## Drewligarchy

joseph69 said:


> I don't believe TCC loans out headphone cables because there are too many variables.



They do at least with the SC cable. They loaned it to me twice before I purchased it.


----------



## notofthisworld

A question for those who are pairing their 1266 with the Bartlok.  What headphone level are you using (0, -10DB, -20DB, -30DB)? and what general volume level you use with the specific headphone level.  

I do a lot of low volume listening and am curious if there is a benefit of using the -20DB or -30DB but with volume level set higher than a 0DB level with the volume set super low.

I love high volume at the 0 output level for shorter listening sessions , butneed to manage how long i listen for.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Today I heared the 1266 TC the first time on my Niimbus US4. OMG. Okay the mids are recessed no amp will fix it but the rest one word amazing!


----------



## Drewligarchy

Trance_Gott said:


> Today I heared the 1266 TC the first time on my Niimbus US4. OMG. Okay the mids are recessed no amp will fix it but the rest one word amazing!



Tubes


----------



## paradoxper

Drewligarchy said:


> Tubes


If you don't know, he's the most inordinate flopper, so assured, tomorrow he'll post how mids on the TC are the best thing he has ever heard. 

He'll secondly insist the Niimbus isn't deficient which it clearly is.

But maybe tomorrow he'll find the Niimbus is very deficient.

Shrugs. 🤣


----------



## PhilipB

Picking up my AB1266 when I'm in New York this week on vacation. I demoed them in the UK a couple of months ago while I was trying out the Ferrum Oor/Hypsos combo, and couldn't stop thinking about how good the 1266 sounded. I tried literally every top-end headphone that day, and took my Susvara along to test out the Oor. The huge stage and awesome impact and bass on the 1266 just stayed with me.


----------



## Pashmeister (Dec 14, 2021)

I have spent spent a couple of weeks listening to the 1266 TC with the Burson Soloist Grand Tourer and it was an impressive spanking. My pre-order was rewarded with a surprise free Supercharger and cool stand.

It’s as great as what a great 1266 TC amp ought to be. Plenty or power in dual mono class A. Black background, excellent layering, smooth sound and not grainy but very detailed, not fatiguing to listen for hours, treble is not harsh. And that dual mono soundstage — tall, wide and excellent depth and dynamics. Tonality is beautiful, the instruments are realistic, vocals are pleasant. I like the mids of the GT, it sounds like a good match to the TC. It also gives justice to the TC bass — it goes low, tight and detailed.

I also recently added a Plixir and my whole chain is connected to it. The improved hygiene enhanced the GT SQ as well. I think a good psu apart from the Supercharger (Hypsos/Plixir?) is a viable upgrade path.

I’m happy with the GT by itself but my ears always prefer a tube preamplifier for a tubified version of whatever SS amp I’m currently enjoying, and a tubified GT with TC hits the spot for me.

What I didn’t like much is the weirdly sensitive volume knob that needs a few days to get used to. It also has the (controversial) noctua fan which did not affect my listening experience but not everyone will be comfortable with having a moving component in their amp. Personally, I don’t mind the fan if it meant keeping the compact form factor and competitive price.


----------



## Trance_Gott (Dec 14, 2021)

paradoxper said:


> If you don't know, he's the most inordinate flopper, so assured, tomorrow he'll post how mids on the TC are the best thing he has ever heard.
> 
> He'll secondly insist the Niimbus isn't deficient which it clearly is.
> 
> ...


Like you T2 T2 T2 nothing beats 009 and T2. And now your first headphone is one without mids hehe....
Crazy headfi

Now on every thread you told us how good the Abyss is. 

I think there is no headphone in all attributes better then another. That's why I have 1266 TC, Susvara, 007, RAD-0 and in a few days LCD-5.


----------



## PhazeCrive

What


Pashmeister said:


> I have spent spent a couple of weeks listening to the 1266 TC with the Burson Soloist Grand Tourer and it was an impressive spanking. My pre-order was rewarded with a surprise free Supercharger and cool stand.
> 
> It’s as great as what a great 1266 TC amp ought to be. Plenty or power in dual mono class A. Black background, excellent layering, smooth sound and not grainy but very detailed, not fatiguing to listen for hours, treble is not harsh. And that dual mono soundstage — tall, wide and excellent depth and dynamics. Tonality is beautiful, the instruments are realistic, vocals are pleasant. I like the mids of the GT, it sounds like a good match to the TC. It also gives justice to the TC bass — it goes low, tight and detailed.
> 
> ...


What's a tube pre amp do? Does it like impart a sound of its own and is then further amplified by the actual amp? How noticeable is a tube pre in a chain?


----------



## Pashmeister (Dec 14, 2021)

PhazeCrive said:


> What
> 
> What's a tube pre amp do? Does it like impart a sound of its own and is then further amplified by the actual amp? How noticeable is a tube pre in a chain?


Yeah, it introduces even order harmonics to supplement the amp’s own sonic characteristics. Like adding salt to bring out the rest of the flavors. The tweaks in SQ depends on your preamp and tubes used.

PS Audio has a nice video on it:


1266 TC benefits from tubes _and_ power. A hybrid integrated amp (a single amp with tube pre stage and ss amp stage) would be awesome but the really good ones are less accessible (Pathos Inpol, Riviera AIC-10, Hifiman EF1000). A tube pre and a separate solid state amp does it for me.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Pashmeister said:


> Yeah, it introduces even order harmonics to supplement the amp’s own sonic characteristics. Like adding salt to bring out the rest of the flavors. The tweaks in SQ depends on your preamp and tubes used.
> 
> PS Audio has a nice video on it:
> 
> ...



I have tried various combos of a tube pre and a SS power and you do get interesting and often great results. 

But you are using a pre with a headphone amp as a power amp, right? How do you deal with the two volume knobs?


----------



## Currawong

Drewligarchy said:


> Now that Audeze is discontinuing the LCD-4


FYI, that's not correct. The message on Audeze's site for the LCD-4 caused confusion, making people believe as much. Audeze confirmed (it's buried in the LCD-5 thread) that the LCD-4 was out of stock due to parts supply issues, but is not discontinued.


----------



## Pashmeister (Dec 14, 2021)

Sajid Amit said:


> I have tried various combos of a tube pre and a SS power and you do get interesting and often great results.
> 
> But you are using a pre with a headphone amp as a power amp, right? How do you deal with the two volume knobs?


I typically would have the tube preamp on almost full volume. A while back, I read a paper (I do not recall exact source sorry) on overdriving tube preamplifiers for electric guitars. They found that overdriving the preamp tubes resulted in increased even order harmonics. Not just 2nd, but also 4th and 6th. I don’t think there’s similar literature on hifi tube preamps, but I reckon it should apply here as well.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Currawong said:


> FYI, that's not correct. The message on Audeze's site for the LCD-4 caused confusion, making people believe as much. Audeze confirmed (it's buried in the LCD-5 thread) that the LCD-4 was out of stock due to parts supply issues, but is not discontinued.



Thanks for this correction. It's good news. I don't want a driver to fail down the road and not be able to get it fixed.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Dec 14, 2021)

Pashmeister said:


> I typically would have the tube preamp on almost full volume. A while back, I read a paper (I do not recall exact source sorry) on overdriving tube preamplifiers for electric guitars. They found that overdriving the preamp tubes resulted in increased even order harmonics. Not just 2nd, but also 4th and 6th. I don’t think there’s similar literature on hifi tube preamps, but I reckon it should apply here as well.



This is true, but from my understanding - the use case is different with guitars. For instance, you may want to overdrive a guitar amp all the time for a specific distorted tone. With Hi-Fi, while even order distortion is pleasant to the ear, tube amps typically have a more even harmonic profile even when not overdriven, and continuously overdriving may not be ideal for the sound. I can't imagine it's beneficial to run any component at clipping, all the time - in the realm of hi-fi.


----------



## Pashmeister

Drewligarchy said:


> This is true, but from my understanding - the use case is different with guitars. For instance, you may want to overdrive a guitar amp all the time for a specific distorted tone. With Hi-Fi, while even order distortion is pleasant to the ear, tube amps typically have a more even harmonic profile even when not overdriven, and continuously overdriving may not be ideal for the sound. I can't imagine it's beneficial to run any component at clipping, all the time - in the realm of hi-fi.


True, though I don’t think I’m close to clipping with the preamp’s volume close to max, with volume attenuated at the separate integrated amp. I don’t fully understand the technicalities, but that’s currently how my volume knobs are set up currently and I’m not hearing unpleasant distortion/clipping. Perhaps there’s a better way to attenuate, but could be dependent on gear combinations as well?


----------



## Drewligarchy

Pashmeister said:


> Yeah, it introduces even order harmonics to supplement the amp’s own sonic characteristics. Like adding salt to bring out the rest of the flavors. The tweaks in SQ depends on your preamp and tubes used.
> 
> PS Audio has a nice video on it:
> 
> ...




I prefer the analogy of Mayonnaise


----------



## Drewligarchy

Pashmeister said:


> True, though I don’t think I’m close to clipping with the preamp’s volume close to max, with volume attenuated at the separate integrated amp. I don’t fully understand the technicalities, but that’s currently how my volume knobs are set up currently and I’m not hearing unpleasant distortion/clipping. Perhaps there’s a better way to attenuate, but could be dependent on gear combinations as well?



If your not clipping, it's more of a question of taste in terms of how you gain stage. I would think you could dial in more or less tube sound based on the level of the pre - but I could be wrong.


----------



## paradoxper

Trance_Gott said:


> Like you T2 T2 T2 nothing beats 009 and T2. And now your first headphone is one without mids hehe....
> Crazy headfi
> 
> Now on every thread you told us how good the Abyss is.
> ...


Oh, don't be mad. Your incoherence is your greatest quality. I like you no matter what they say!


----------



## Trance_Gott

paradoxper said:


> Oh, don't be mad. Your incoherence is your greatest quality. I like you no matter what they say!


I also like you no matter what they say!


----------



## paradoxper

Trance_Gott said:


> I also like you no matter what they say!


We've been busting each other's balls since 2012. A good run.


----------



## Whazzzup

You can get a room?


----------



## paradoxper

Whazzzup said:


> You can get a room?


Are you asking to join or watch...


----------



## MatW

Currawong said:


> FYI, that's not correct. The message on Audeze's site for the LCD-4 caused confusion, making people believe as much. Audeze confirmed (it's buried in the LCD-5 thread) that the LCD-4 was out of stock due to parts supply issues, but is not discontinued.


The website still says "no longer available". I know they said on headfi, weeks ago, that it's not discontinued, but they've not changed the website, which is strange, to say the least.


----------



## ken6217

Whazzzup said:


> You can get a room?


Damn. I’m late to the party I was just going to say the same thing. 

I’m not watching, unless at least one of you have boobs. I mean from birth.


----------



## JLoud

This is the internet, they both might have boobs. But either way, I don't want to watch. Unless they are wearing headphones, then maybe.


----------



## FooFighter

JLoud said:


> This is the internet, they both might have boobs. But either way, I don't want to watch. Unless they are wearing headphones, then maybe.


Reminds me of my favorite cartoon from student times


----------



## ken6217

JLoud said:


> This is the internet, they both might have boobs. But either way, I don't want to watch. Unless they are wearing headphones, then maybe.


So what you are saying is that you want to see cans, but at least one set has to be over the ears.


----------



## GryphonGuy (Dec 14, 2021)

Drewligarchy said:


> Problem with EQ is more of an issue with high-end DACs. I am not a purist and I think you should make any changes that sound good, however, when I EQ with Dave/Mscaler, the depth of the stage collapses. I don't know if it's Roon's DSP or just EQ in general. I would think that the best alternative would be the Loki Max, as its effect is only in the analog domain - but based on @paradoxper's post - it's either not enough, or has the same issues as DSP. Though I agree with him that tubes work well to round things out. I think the TC sounds best on Tubes for my personal tastes (I have absolutely no need to EQ with my current setup), though SS does have it's adavantages.
> 
> I'm very curious about purchasing an LCD-5. I've been an Audeze fan boy since I got into this hobby, previously owned the LCD-3 for quite some time, and currently own the LCD-4, and upgraded 2021 LCD-XC, as well as the Audeze Sine - which is my favorite portable headphone. That said, almost every review I've seen said to EQ the LCD-5. I've tried Audeze's DSP in Roon, and always end up turning it off. Resolve says your missing out. @Currawong - at least - says he achieved a bit of softening through his Studio 6 - so maybe my Wa33 would have the same effect.
> 
> Now that Audeze is discontinuing the LCD-4 (at least that's what I read somewhere), I am definitely not going to trade it in. I love that headphone - sound and looks - and you won't be able to get a new one soon. If I buy an LCD-5 it has to be enough of a complement to the LCD-4 and my other headphones to keep. All that being said, I still listen to the Abyss 85-90% of the time, and the Susvara and LCD-4 can't pull me away other than for a change of pace. I'm looking for a headphone that, while different, makes me want to rotate more frequently. The Abyss TC is so good, I don't know if I can find it. Maybe the Sr1a? Looking forward to CanJam this year so I can hear some of these at least, even in show conditions. It's how I ended up with the Abyss TC, and I wasn't looking.



Roon DSP destroys the soundscape for me in my system. Roon is very good in my system without any add-ins or DSP.


----------



## turbofeet

Just received the 1266 TC yesterday. Unfortunately I had a headache after work (all day at my office desk staring at a screen) and so couldn't listen for too long but I got an hour or so in. I'm listening direct out of the Bartok HE.

Just to give a little background without boring you too much...

Music I like to listen to: Drum & Bass, EDM, R&B, Hip-hop, Live Rock & Sometimes Classical.
What I like: Bass! Clarity (especially in vocals), Instrument Separation (identifying each element of a song). Warmth/Colouration - when done right...I realise this is contradictive.

I tried the Focal Stellia with a Matrix Element X as my first high-end "Head-fi" however it had zero bass and there was _too much_ detail which took all enjoyment out of bad recordings. You were punished for it basically.

I then realised they needed burn-in and so after about 50hrs+ the bass appeared and they were fabulous with High-Res Streaming/Flac but bad recordings still sounded horrible. Just made them - "more bad". I assumed this is what you get with detailed headphones; realised my mistake and sold them. The most comfortable headphones in existence still imho. May have just lacked synergy with the Matrix as well.

Bought the Meze Empyrean (second hand from here) and loved them immediately. They made everything very enjoyable no matter how bad the recording was. They had great bass which I love and their warmth is just glorious. Although they are dissed from a technical standpoint I find them pretty detailed with a good soundstage. There are definitely tuned more for enjoyment and the bass does indeed bleed into the mids. 

Still; I love them and will keep them. Added a Feliks Euphoria AE and they sounded even better.

Now enter the DTS Bartok and this took the Empyreans to their maximum level. Selling the Euphoria (in classifieds now) as when listening a/b between the Bartok's Head Out vs the Euphoria - they are different but it's not any _better _to my ears plus I could use the money for another purchase. I expected it to be warmer with the tubes but that Bartok has such a lovely Analog sound anyway.

Had a chance to listen to the Utopia for a while. Great detail but oh so bright - hurt my ears to be honest as details were shouted at me at times.

After reading multiple reviews I had my mind set on either the Meze Elite, the TCs or the Susvara's but I would need a more powerful Head Amp for the Susvara's which is an extra expense (more on that later) I didn't fancy plus I kind of wanted to try the best available (sub 30K anyway!) since I have already invested in a decent DAC.

I also thought from reading and watching reviews on the Susvara they would also punish me with bad recordings.

The more I read about the 1266s TCs the more I like the sound of them. Bass, Clarity, Instrument Separation, and Soundstage _all together_ - sounds great!

So; I take the plunge and I have to say - right out of the box out of the Bartok they have such great detail without the additional brightness and the bass is powerful and clean. Quite impressive. Certainly the bass does not seep into the mids like with the Empy's either - really nice. They also play nice with poorer recordings. Yay!

I have a few questions for you guys (assuming you're still reading this wall of text):

1. My Head is pretty small and so I find they kind of hang off the centre on the top of my head and wobble about. I'm not sure I can do any exercises to make my head bigger and so I have been playing around with pad rotation and adjusting the top bar in/out. I have managed to find a sweet spot a few times but I can't remember which ones work as I was adjusting the pads quite a bit. It definitely works better and feels more comfortable when I twist the leather strap twice to bring the strap nearer to my head but I don't fancy doing that for longevity reasons. I think I would benefit from the Mods you guys have mentioned in this thread. Is there somewhere I can purchase these (to bring the strap down a bit) or is it very much a DIY option? Ideally a thicker strap would probably work best (wrap it in soft carpet? lol).

2. Do these need burning in? By that I mean not necessarily just the Headphones but also the Stock Cable (I have the "lite" version). I have the Copper upgraded Meze cables for the Empy's and they sound pretty good to my ears with the TCs. A little warmer than the stock but of course these are well burned in. 
One user mentioned alternative after market silver cables (Lavricables) so I may look into these as £2k for the Superconductor upgrade cable is a bit crazy. 
I have noticed that although instrument separation and detail is exceptional the Soundstage is not particularly large. Certainly doesn't seem to me as described in some reviews - much smaller. I don't particularly mind this but this is another reason why I ask the question about burn in. I guess the position of the pads also affects this.

3. They go pretty loud out of the Bartok (never have it higher than -20db) and so it clearly has the power to drive them but will an external amp make a significant difference to performance? Probably a stupid question to ask here but the WA33/Riviera/XI Audio + Powerman options seems a little expensive. 
I do like the idea of tubes but I think I will also look at Solid State options if it is advised. I mean I've spent enough already, another 4k won't hurt! 
I still have a Jotenheim 2 and the Feliks (until it's sold hopefully tomorrow on eBay) so I can try these. The Pathos inPol Ear might be in budget and that sounds like it might be a good option. Recommendations Welcome.

4. Finally; I do not find many EQ settings around the internet (No Oratory1990 for example) and just slight tweaks on Audio Science Review and from a few reviewers. I ended up turning off the Parametric EQ Roon filter for the Empyrean's when I got that Bartok - but if anyone has any links I would like to play around with EQ a bit for poops and giggles.

Thanks for reading.

P.S. I haven't cried "yet"...


----------



## smutnyjoe

Welcome to the 1266 club  
Like most of the planars, they really benefit from a long burn-in. 
But if you think you've already found your best frame/pad setting - then you're wrong  it can take weeks of listening to understand how the setting affects the sound and what is your favorite one, based on my experience and most of the people I talked to about the 1266s. 
Consider buying some o-rings in various sizes - that helped me find the most optimal position on my head. Changing the o-rings is very easy with the new headband.


----------



## Drewligarchy

turbofeet said:


> Just received the 1266 TC yesterday. Unfortunately I had a headache after work (all day at my office desk staring at a screen) and so couldn't listen for too long but I got an hour or so in. I'm listening direct out of the Bartok HE.
> 
> Just to give a little background without boring you too much...
> 
> ...



Soundstage is largely dependent on the fitment. Secondarily the amp, in my experience. For me, the soundstage on the Abyss is bigger than any other headphone I've tried.


----------



## turbofeet

Thanks Guys. I think I just need to get that fit just right first then.


----------



## simorag (Dec 15, 2021)

Hello and compliments for getting the most _exciting _headphones on the planet 



turbofeet said:


> My Head is pretty small and so I find they kind of hang off the centre on the top of my head and wobble about.



If they are very new, expect that the leather band will give a little. I would wait a bit before swapping o-rings and considering tweaks if I were you.



turbofeet said:


> They go pretty loud out of the Bartok (never have it higher than -20db) and so it clearly has the power to drive them but will an external amp make a significant difference to performance?



I tried the Bartok and it is more than capable to drive the AB-1266. You will need a top flight amp to beat it by a reasonable margin IMO.
Unless you are a very disciplined audiophile, and a very sensible type of person, you will end up getting one anyways, so be prepared to the next notch to your bank account  
When you do, the AIC-10 will not disappoint.



turbofeet said:


> Do these need burning in?



I felt that the midrange improved in the first 40-60h (loosing some slight nasal character), and also the bass became less tight, getting to that miracle of oomph, texture and control that is the trademark of the (properly fitted and amped) AB-1266.



turbofeet said:


> One user mentioned alternative after market silver cables (Lavricables) so I may look into these as £2k for the Superconductor upgrade cable is a bit crazy.



Again, a more sensible person would reply differently, but my advice is - after having enjoyed the stock configuration for a good while - bite the bullet and get the Superconductor (sorry). In the links in my signature there is some background about that.


----------



## mitchb

I agree about the upgrade cable. I went with a Danacable Lazuli Nirvana cable as  I had the cable before the headphones for my LCD4 headphones. I purchased some O-rings just in case my headphones ever need new rings. 
I must agree that the TC’s are my best headphones by far and in fact they have made my LCD4 headphones get very little use. I use the LCD4 headphones once in while but always go back to my TC’s.


----------



## mammal

turbofeet said:


> Just received the 1266 TC yesterday. Unfortunately I had a headache after work (all day at my office desk staring at a screen) and so couldn't listen for too long but I got an hour or so in. I'm listening direct out of the Bartok HE.


Congratulations on your own pair of 1266 TC, a wonderful headphone.


turbofeet said:


> 3. They go pretty loud out of the Bartok (never have it higher than -20db) and so it clearly has the power to drive them but will an external amp make a significant difference to performance? Probably a stupid question to ask here but the WA33/Riviera/XI Audio + Powerman options seems a little expensive.


As someone who owned Bartok and Riviera AIC-10, and demoed Viva Egoista 845 extensively, I must say that Bartok is a fantastic amplifier. Viva (for 12.5k Eur) only raised the bar by 10%, which was not worth it in my opinion. As for Riviera, that one was financially worth it (I bought used for half a price), as only one tube had to be rolled. And I eventually found a tube that made Riviera sound exactly like Viva anyway, but more importantly, there were tubes that Riviera just sounded so different compared to Bartok.



turbofeet said:


> Music I like to listen to: Drum & Bass, EDM, R&B, Hip-hop, Live Rock & Sometimes Classical.
> What I like: Bass! Clarity (especially in vocals), Instrument Separation (identifying each element of a song). Warmth/Colouration - when done right...I realise this is contradictive.


My main genre is EDM, clocking in 90% of my listening time, out of which only 15% is EDM with vocals (the rest is crystal clear cold EDM). As someone who extensively demoed Susvara and Valkyria, I found 1266 being the best headphone for EDM with Bartok directly. Riviera shines for anything that requires warmth, so only warm female vocal EDM, or other genres I listen to.


----------



## turbofeet

Thanks guys. Very helpful.


----------



## deuter

turbofeet said:


> Thanks guys. Very helpful.


Also do try the Formula S, I was a skeptic for years. Not anymore!


----------



## You Kay

Oooo nearly at 1266 pages on this forum. The admins should close it on 1266 😁


----------



## You Kay

XI Audio Formula S/ Powerman vs Ferrum OOR /Hypsos comparison anybody?


----------



## Abyss Headphones (Dec 17, 2021)

Today's video we talk about collecting music, with a link to a free Hi Res album download from HDtracks...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/abyss-top-of-the-line-videos.920394/page-18#post-16717340


----------



## ajreynol (Dec 17, 2021)

So I just got a pair of TC's (I know, I know), but I'm finding bass sounds like farts. Like, really bad. Treble and mids sound fine. I'm also hearing a metallic vibration in the frame that triggers when the right tone is hit in the right ear. Don't know how to describe it but it's like something is on the driver and vibrating. I've tried a variety of positions and ear cup configurations. I can hear potential but something is clearly not right.

Is my v281 completely unable to drive these or something? Or is there an issue with this set? Trying them out with this track 



and it's a hot mess


----------



## Bonddam

M my


ajreynol said:


> So I just got a pair of TC's (I know, I know), but I'm finding bass sounds like farts. Like, really bad. Treble and mids sound fine. I'm also hearing a metallic vibration in the frame that triggers when the right tone is hit in the right ear. Don't know how to describe it but it's like something is on the driver and vibrating. I've tried a variety of positions and ear cup configurations. I can hear potential but something is clearly not right.
> 
> Is my v281 completely unable to drive these or something? Or is there an issue with this set? Trying them out with this track
> 
> ...



its tough to say about the bass but if ringing just may have been a shipping issue. Only ringing was on the original 1266. How much of a gap? I have barely a gap and I only listen to bass music. I can hurt the bass by having big gap or turned too far up with the seam going towards 12. I set my seam 3 on both which produces the deepest bass and as for gap you’d have a hard time getting a thick piece of paper through. I’ll gap a hole at the back of my ear seal the rest. Basically need that driver to breath. When you seal the pressure doesn’t allow the drive to move its fullest creating those low 
resonating bass beats now too much and it bottoms out like in the dynamic word for moving too far.


----------



## ajreynol (Dec 17, 2021)

Bonddam said:


> M my
> 
> its tough to say about the bass but if ringing just may have been a shipping issue. Only ringing was on the original 1266. How much of a gap? I have barely a gap and I only listen to bass music. I can hurt the bass by having big gap or turned too far up with the seam going towards 12. I set my seam 3 on both which produces the deepest bass and as for gap you’d have a hard time getting a thick piece of paper through. I’ll gap a hole at the back of my ear seal the rest. Basically need that driver to breath. When you seal the pressure doesn’t allow the drive to move its fullest creating those low
> resonating bass beats now too much and it bottoms out like in the dynamic word for moving too far.


Yea, I just got off the phone with The Cable Company (these were from their loan program) and he mentioned they had some repairs of some sort in the past. They are completely unusable and I'll be sending them back tomorrow. I can hear the potential even through the issues, but I don't know if that potential I'm hearing is enough for me to send back my LCD-5's in the hope that the next pair will allow me to properly evaluate them on my system.

I'm really quite sad as my LCD-5 return window ends next Friday and I *really* was hoping to get a proper evaluation in.

If nothing else, I was able to confirm that the stability issues (that is, the headphones falling off my head when doing things) are non-existant. They are quite confident on my head regardless of angle in my typical use cases, so there's at least one fewer issue to worry about. It really is just a question of how they sound in comparison at this point....which was the most important question. A question I can't answer despite having a pair in my hands.

Pretty discouraged.

edit: they sound okay at very low volume. I guess I'll try to evaluate this way.


----------



## number1sixerfan

ajreynol said:


> Yea, I just got off the phone with The Cable Company (these were from their loan program) and he mentioned they had some repairs of some sort in the past. They are completely unusable and I'll be sending them back tomorrow. I can hear the potential even through the issues, but I don't know if that potential I'm hearing is enough for me to send back my LCD-5's in the hope that the next pair will allow me to properly evaluate them on my system.
> 
> I'm really quite sad as my LCD-5 return window ends next Friday and I *really* was hoping to get a proper evaluation in.
> 
> ...



Are the earpads flush on your head around your ears? Is there a gap at any point where they aren't? If so you may want to bend the frame. The I had issues that made them unusable until I bent the frame to the right position for my heads within a week. Complete night and day difference. Not saying this will work for you for sure, but just mentioning.


----------



## qboogie

ajreynol said:


> So I just got a pair of TC's (I know, I know), but I'm finding bass sounds like farts. Like, really bad. Treble and mids sound fine. I'm also hearing a metallic vibration in the frame that triggers when the right tone is hit in the right ear. Don't know how to describe it but it's like something is on the driver and vibrating. I've tried a variety of positions and ear cup configurations. I can hear potential but something is clearly not right.
> 
> Is my v281 completely unable to drive these or something? Or is there an issue with this set? Trying them out with this track
> 
> ...



My guess that it's a hair or fiber on the driver. I had a similar metallic buzzing at particular parts of songs.


----------



## ajreynol (Dec 17, 2021)

number1sixerfan said:


> Are the earpads flush on your head around your ears? Is there a gap at any point where they aren't? If so you may want to bend the frame. The I had issues that made them unusable until I bent the frame to the right position for my heads within a week. Complete night and day difference. Not saying this will work for you for sure, but just mentioning.


I don't want to bend the frame on a rental set.

The earpads are as they can be given the design. they're touching in the front, but a little less in the back. They sound fine at very low volumes, more or less. But as soon as I turn the sound up past 10 on my V281's dial, they fall apart. They also have some real serious performance issues with bass separation. I assume the bass pulses should be nice, tight, and clearly separated through all parts of this track:



But the deeper pulses just sound like a single blob at 10 o'clock on my v281's dial and they sound like they're straight up going to rattle apart. Probably the worst I've ever heard the passage on any pair of headphones right down to $20 earbuds. They're that bad. They're hilariously broken.  Oh well. I had a dream that I'd be able to compare them. I'm more or less going to make a half-informed decision here. I'm not happy.

Photo to remember the disappointment. I was absolutely looking forward to writing my full impressions and comparison to a well broken in LCD-5. Looks like they won't be happening.










qboogie said:


> My guess that it's a hair or fiber on the driver. I had a similar metallic buzzing at particular parts of songs.


Interestingly, I had a look at the drivers with the ear pads off and there are holes in the silver mesh. Like, holes.






sheeeesh. what did the last person who had these do to them in 2 weeks time?


----------



## ken6217

ajreynol said:


> So I just got a pair of TC's (I know, I know), but I'm finding bass sounds like farts. Like, really bad. Treble and mids sound fine. I'm also hearing a metallic vibration in the frame that triggers when the right tone is hit in the right ear. Don't know how to describe it but it's like something is on the driver and vibrating. I've tried a variety of positions and ear cup configurations. I can hear potential but something is clearly not right.
> 
> Is my v281 completely unable to drive these or something? Or is there an issue with this set? Trying them out with this track
> 
> ...



Definitely not the V281. I still have my old one and listen to it once in a while, and no issues.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Dec 17, 2021)

ajreynol said:


> I don't want to bend the frame on a rental set.
> 
> The earpads are as they can be given the design. they're touching in the front, but a little less in the back. They sound fine at very low volumes, more or less. But as soon as I turn the sound up past 10 on my V281's dial, they fall apart. They also have some real serious performance issues with bass separation. I assume the bass pulses should be nice, tight, and clearly separated through all parts of this track:
> 
> ...




I get not wanting to do that on a rental set, but it's normal for the headphone. Abyss has a video on it I believe. If there's an opening between the pads, that's very likely a part of. the issue. But with the pics as well, hair or debris is probably a bigger issue given those holes in the mesh. Sucks, hopefully you can hear a different pair sometime soon.


----------



## SteveM324

ajreynol said:


> I don't want to bend the frame on a rental set.
> 
> The earpads are as they can be given the design. they're touching in the front, but a little less in the back. They sound fine at very low volumes, more or less. But as soon as I turn the sound up past 10 on my V281's dial, they fall apart. They also have some real serious performance issues with bass separation. I assume the bass pulses should be nice, tight, and clearly separated through all parts of this track:
> 
> ...



Maybe you got the one that they used to drive a Jeep over it.    I recall a video of a vehicle being driven over the 1266 and it surviving.  Your pictures show that its definitely been abused.


----------



## briantrinh86

ajreynol said:


> I don't want to bend the frame on a rental set.
> 
> The earpads are as they can be given the design. they're touching in the front, but a little less in the back. They sound fine at very low volumes, more or less. But as soon as I turn the sound up past 10 on my V281's dial, they fall apart. They also have some real serious performance issues with bass separation. I assume the bass pulses should be nice, tight, and clearly separated through all parts of this track:
> 
> ...



just to ensure with u. this is the phi cc verson. not the tc. the tc will have " total conciousness" engraving


----------



## tholt

ajreynol said:


> So I just got a pair of TC's (I know, I know), but I'm finding bass sounds like farts. Like, really bad. Treble and mids sound fine. I'm also hearing a metallic vibration in the frame that triggers when the right tone is hit in the right ear. Don't know how to describe it but it's like something is on the driver and vibrating. I've tried a variety of positions and ear cup configurations. I can hear potential but something is clearly not right.
> 
> Is my v281 completely unable to drive these or something? Or is there an issue with this set? Trying them out with this track
> 
> ...



Everything you say indicates they're broke. Those are some beaten up looking headphones. There is no fixing them on your end.


----------



## PhazeCrive

That's what happens to the mesh when you play 10hz bass at 130db in free air. Kappa


----------



## ajreynol (Dec 18, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> Definitely not the V281. I still have my old one and listen to it once in a while, and no issues.


Thank you for the confirmation.



briantrinh86 said:


> just to ensure with u. this is the phi cc verson. not the tc. the tc will have " total conciousness" engraving


Wait, what?

So not only did The Cable Company fail to send me a working pair for my ~$300 "rental fee", but they also failed to send the correct version of the headphones? I'll be requesting a full refund from them and I'll be sure to recommend others avoid using their lending library service in the future.

@Abyss Headphones - I must say I'm quite disappointed in the experience with The Cable Company here. I ended up working The Cable Company on recommendation from Abyss after a phone call/email with the Abyss team a couple of weeks ago and I'd like you to be aware that this has been my experience. They were also quite nonchalant about it. "Very unfortunate, but it is what it is", was an exact quote from the team over there today. The only proposed solution was to see about sending their other loaner pair to me sometime in January when it comes back in. Which may or may not be an actual pair of TC's, apparently.

In the end, I just wanted to demo a normal pair of TC's so that I could confirm they fit well and make an informed decision about how they sound with my music and confirm they will be what I'm looking for. Is there anything you can do to help me get that done this week short of dropping $5k+ and holding my breath with the specter of a large restocking fee looming if I'm not happy?

As you all can imagine, thas certainly been about as poor a first impression as one could have of a brand and reseller. I'm just wearing them with no sound to see how I feel about the general fit because...what else can I do with them? smh.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

@ajreynol We've worked with The Cable Company for over 20 years. They're professionals. Seems a beat up headphone was accidentally mixed into the lending library, sh.t happens. Not to mention, we're all people.
Happy Holidays


----------



## ken6217

Abyss Headphones said:


> @ajreynol We've worked with The Cable Company for over 20 years. They're professionals. Seems a beat up headphone was accidentally mixed into the lending library, sh.t happens. Not to mention, we're all people.
> Happy Holidays


This issue is not on Abyss. They obviously send the cable company a working headphone in good condition. What happens to it once it’s loaned out is not their fault, or their responsibility. That’s on the cable company. Furthermore if the cable company doesn’t do anything about it, or try to send it back for repair or replacement, that again is on the cable company. Abyss is not responsible for anything they have no knowledge of, unless they have ESP.


----------



## Whazzzup

I used cable company to purchase chord Sarum T digital super array usb, pretty smooth transaction.


----------



## QuantumKat

Damn, woo price increase. Guess I'm ordering today then. WA33 Elite JPS here we come.


----------



## Whazzzup (Dec 18, 2021)

This wasn’t the place for this, sorry


----------



## ken6217

Whazzzup said:


> Frankly americas state of anocracy, usa is not considered a democracy any more, is more of a concern for me where my dollars go. Maybe I’ll wait and see how the next two three years go and see if usa can once again join free democracies like Canada again. Good luck, it’s going to take effort to save.


What are you smoking?


----------



## Pashmeister

Abyss Headphones said:


> @ajreynol We've worked with The Cable Company for over 20 years. They're professionals. Seems a beat up headphone was accidentally mixed into the lending library, sh.t happens. Not to mention, we're all people.
> Happy Holidays


I love the customer service oriented response here. So classy.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> What are you smoking?


I want some!!!


----------



## ajreynol (Dec 18, 2021)

Abyss Headphones said:


> @ajreynol We've worked with The Cable Company for over 20 years. They're professionals. Seems a beat up headphone was accidentally mixed into the lending library, sh.t happens. Not to mention, we're all people.
> Happy Holidays


I hear you, but you never get a second chance to make a first impression. If it's all the same to you, I'll be buying directly from Abyss should I decide to pick up a pair.

It's not the mistake (mistakes, actually, given I didn't even receive the correct version of headphone), it's the nonchalant response to it. This isn't exactly getting the size of fries wrong at the fast food joint.


----------



## jlbrach

ajreynol said:


> Thank you for the confirmation.
> 
> 
> Wait, what?
> ...


not sure you can or should be beating up on the people at abyss who I can say from experience treat their customers well based upon an unfortunate situation with the cable company...I am surprised it doesnt happen more often given all the different people who sample these headphones


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> not sure you can or should be beating up on the people at abyss who I can say from experience treat their customers well based upon an unfortunate situation with the cable company...I am surprised it doesnt happen more often given all the different people who sample these headphones


No, he's incomplete. Bitching about the current service edition is ok; he paid, they sent him the wrong headphone, one that is faulty as crap happens. Despite whatever attitude you perceive, did you lose out on money, or did they rectify the lending model or fully provide a refund.

I, too, am surprised this doesn't happen more often. It's one of the reasons I'll only deal directly with dealers.


----------



## jlbrach

I agree he has a legitimate beef but not with abyss


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> I agree he has a legitimate beef but not with abyss


Not with Abyss, with the whole world.


----------



## TDinCali

I’ve also experienced pretty poor customer support from the cable company but I didn’t go on public forums and call out the manufacturers to do something about it.


----------



## Pashmeister

But if Abyss goes out to defend the cable company in such a way as “we trust them, crap happens, move on” is a big f*ck you to the person isn’t it. Obviously this isn’t Abyss’ fault, but I’m surprised they handled it like a caricature of a rude waitress from a diner in the middle of nowhere instead of a company that presents itself as the Ferrari of headphones.


----------



## TDinCali

Are we here to talk about the equipment or our feelings?

If you hate them that much, burn your 1266 as an effigy, that will show them.



ajreynol said:


> So I just got a pair of TC's (I know, I know), but I'm finding bass sounds like farts. Like, really bad. Treble and mids sound fine. I'm also hearing a metallic vibration in the frame that triggers when the right tone is hit in the right ear. Don't know how to describe it but it's like something is on the driver and vibrating. I've tried a variety of positions and ear cup configurations. I can hear potential but something is clearly not right.
> 
> Is my v281 completely unable to drive these or something? Or is there an issue with this set? Trying them out with this track
> 
> ...



Editing response. 

Just saw your pics with the damage. Pretty crappy condition. Who knows what damage was done.


----------



## ken6217

TDinCali said:


> Are we here to talk about the equipment or our feelings?
> 
> If you hate them that much, burn your 1266 as an effigy, that will show them.



I think you need to go back and reread the messages.


----------



## PhilipB

How long - if at all - do people recommend burning these in for? Are they already in their final form out of the box, or can I expect them to evolve over time? Thanks.


----------



## turbofeet

@PhilipB they say between 50-70hrs. 

I am in the process of doing this now myself as I just purchased a week ago.


----------



## Bonddam

PhilipB said:


> How long - if at all - do people recommend burning these in for? Are they already in their final form out of the box, or can I expect them to evolve over time? Thanks.


They change with use. They only do a 30 hour qc burn in. Things will change when you don't expect it. They say 70 hours when changes will start to happen. Joe explained that the diaphragm is very tight when stretched and needs time to loosen up. I've heard it on a previous unit. It was noticable as music sounded more coherent. Imaging became more realistic. Treble smoothed out bass notes hit more solid. If you are going to burn them in use something like a book to stop the diaphragm from extending beyond the point it's supposed to.


----------



## AxelCloris

We've removed some discussion regarding knockoffs and a potentially unsafe/scam URL from the thread. As always, please remember that if something is "too good to be true" it most likely is.


----------



## ajreynol

Update - All issues have been cleared up with The Cable Company and they're taking care of me. 

I'm still hurting about not being able to A/B them with the LCD-5's, but oh well. I'll be making a decision on the LCD-5's today but almost certainly will be ordering the 1266TC's by end of year.


----------



## tholt

ajreynol said:


> Update - All issues have been cleared up with The Cable Company and they're taking care of me.


Cool


----------



## audiocroissant

We are approaching the 1266th page...


----------



## eee1111

audiocroissant said:


> We are approaching the 1266th page...


Too early
It’s goin on 1264


----------



## sahmen

audiocroissant said:


> We are approaching the 1266th page...


Yeah! Some kind of international virtual TC party would be priceless on the day the page count hits 1266, especially if everyone appears on zoom wearing their 1266 TCs for the occasion.. A *TC-Jam* or *TC* *virtual canjam or whatever's appropriate..*.  

A shot like the one below with everyone wearing a TC would be nothing short of totally nuts and bonkers, not to mention absolutely goofy and hilarious! One for the history books, I'm thinking, if someone can pull it off      ... I'm betting we would not need any music to make it fun







Okay, I am kidding, but only halfway kidding....


----------



## PhilipB

I think these are pretty amazing. I almost think that they don't compare to other high-level headphones - it's a very different experience.


----------



## turbofeet

Bass in your face! 
Nina Simone would be turning in her grave but it's a great little dance tune and the bass is mighty!


----------



## ufospls2

turbofeet said:


> Bass in your face!
> Nina Simone would be turning in her grave but it's a great little dance tune and the bass is mighty!



Made me think of Nico Jaar


----------



## Homrsimson

Happy Christmas Eve . My father in law has been visiting and has never heard a good pair of headphones in any form, despite being a big classic rock and jazz music fan. I gave him a run at the TC with SC cable. You can tell he enjoyed it, didn’t bother to sit on the couch. He was so astounded by the sound. One small example of what makes this hobby fun


----------



## qboogie

Absolutely one of the best things about this hobby is slapping one of those headphones onto someone you love, playing them a song they've heard a thousand times, and watching their face light up. 

I also love when they unknowingly start shouting while the headphones are on


----------



## ken6217

qboogie said:


> Absolutely one of the best things about this hobby is slapping one of those headphones onto someone you love, playing them a song they've heard a thousand times, and watching their face light up.
> 
> I also love when they unknowingly start shouting while the headphones are on


Until they say, WOW, this sounds amazing!! 

What do these cost like $200 or something? 

No, $5000.  

What??? Are you out of your ****ing mind??


----------



## Slim1970

qboogie said:


> Absolutely one of the best things about this hobby is slapping one of those headphones onto someone you love, playing them a song they've heard a thousand times, and watching their face light up.
> 
> I also love when they unknowingly start shouting while the headphones are on


Yes, the TC's gets them every time!


----------



## genefruit

Slim1970 said:


> Yes, the TC's gets them every time!


They get me every time as well.


----------



## eee1111

ken6217 said:


> Until they say, WOW, this sounds amazing!!
> 
> What do these cost like $200 or something?
> 
> ...


Yeah

Most people lose their minds hearing that. I don’t make that mistake anymore


----------



## Trance_Gott (Dec 25, 2021)

My 1266 TC also has the sleepy driver problem. Sometimes it's the right side, but the left side was also quieter or didn't work at all. Then you turn the amplifier up briefly and everything runs perfectly. For me it's always when I don't use the headphones for a few days. I had already written to JPS and they said that if both drivers play, I should let them play. The warranty has already expired. Has anyone here with the sleepy driver problem also had a total failure with a driver or do the drivers always start up again? I could live with it if the drivers continued to work like this for many years. Many people here seem to have this problem. Does anyone know what the cause of this is? It must be a production error. @Abyss Headphones


----------



## mitchb

Is this sleepy driver issue a common issue? Do many members experience this? I’ve had many issues with my Audeze LCD headphones going out of wack. So far my TC’s seem to be OK.


----------



## Trance_Gott

mitchb said:


> Is this sleepy driver issue a common issue? Do many members experience this? I’ve had many issues with my Audeze LCD headphones going out of wack. So far my TC’s seem to be OK.


Since 15 years I never have a issue with one of my headphones. This is the first time.


----------



## vonBaron

It's called karma...


----------



## Trance_Gott (Dec 25, 2021)

Yesterday I had both drivers sleepy (left nothing, right very low volume) . Today the left side was sleepy and after turn up the amplifier I hear since 2 hours without problems.
Strange very strange this issue.
But seems to be now every day or depends on listening session duration.


----------



## jlbrach

Slim1970 said:


> Yes, the TC's gets them every time!





eee1111 said:


> Yeah
> 
> Most people lose their minds hearing that. I don’t make that mistake anymore


I feel that way when somebody tells me they spend 200 dollars for a bottle of wine,10k for a watch or 100k on a car...we all spend our disposable income differently


----------



## mitchb

Who would spend 100k on a car? You could get a nice audio system for that kind of money.


----------



## Trance_Gott

BTW the new Rhapsody Of Fire - Glory for Salvation sounds great on the TC tons of slam and punch with a lot of air. Very clean recording and good synergy with the TC strengths Bass, Highs and Soundstage.


----------



## jlbrach

mitchb said:


> Who would spend 100k on a car? You could get a nice audio system for that kind of money.


good one!!!!


----------



## JLoud

Yesterday was the first time my TC had the “sleepy driver”. It was the left side at about 1/2 volume. After turning up the volume for about 15 minutes it balanced out. I hope it doesn’t continue. Really don’t understand why  it happens then goes away.


----------



## ken6217

mitchb said:


> Who would spend 100k on a car? You could get a nice audio system for that kind of money.


I wish my 911S was only 100k.


----------



## mitchb

I wish my audio system was only 100k.


----------



## vonBaron

JLoud said:


> Yesterday was the first time my TC had the “sleepy driver”. It was the left side at about 1/2 volume. After turning up the volume for about 15 minutes it balanced out. I hope it doesn’t continue. Really don’t understand why  it happens then goes away.


I have same issues with my previous 1266 CC.


----------



## mitchb

It seems like all of the planar magnetic headphones fail after time. Even the old time dynamic driver headphones seem to go out of wack after time.


----------



## JLoud

vonBaron said:


> I have same issues with my previous 1266 CC.


Did it continue to get worse or just stay the same?


----------



## Roasty

i had the sleepy driver issue, on the Right channel.
sent it back to Abyss and they did something but i'm not sure what.
came back after 2 months (iirc) or so and have not had the issue since. *fingers crossed.
it happened about 7 months into ownership (brand new unit from local dealer), purchased Oct/Nov 2019.


----------



## Stereolab42

mitchb said:


> It seems like all of the planar magnetic headphones fail after time. Even the old time dynamic driver headphones seem to go out of wack after time.


Any device with a moving part is going to fail at some point, the question is when. They're not like amps which you can just swap out a few capacitors every few decades and you're good-to-go again.


----------



## Roasty

better to get it fixed, before it becomes 1266 Phi TC (Totally Comatose)..


----------



## dukeskd

Trance_Gott said:


> BTW the new Rhapsody Of Fire - Glory for Salvation sounds great on the TC tons of slam and punch with a lot of air. Very clean recording and good synergy with the TC strengths Bass, Highs and Soundstage.


Ah, super rare to see a fellow Rhapsody fan! Is Luca back in the band?

BTW, your issue sounds like a charge problem. Have you tried using other amps, etc? Switch the cables around also from L to R.


----------



## vonBaron

JLoud said:


> Did it continue to get worse or just stay the same?


I sold them so idk.


----------



## leftside

ken6217 said:


> I wish my 911S was only 100k.


Give it time. It will soon be super cheap.


----------



## leftside

Wife has gone to bed. Time to bring out the 1266.


----------



## smodtactical

leftside said:


> Wife has gone to bed. Time to bring out the 1266.


You look like galactus.


----------



## Trance_Gott (Dec 26, 2021)

dukeskd said:


> Ah, super rare to see a fellow Rhapsody fan! Is Luca back in the band?
> 
> BTW, your issue sounds like a charge problem. Have you tried using other amps, etc? Switch the cables around also from L to R.


Yes not a cable or amp issue.

Luca leave the band 2011.


----------



## qboogie

We did it. Woohoo.

*Plays FLAC binaural audio of champagne bottles popping*

*Swears it sounds better than 320 kbps MP3 version of the same track*


----------



## Ciggavelli

I have to post on the 1266th page for historic reasons. It’s still my favorite pair of headphones ever


----------



## tholt

Merry 1266! 🤘


----------



## stemiki

i ❤️ 1266✨🍾🎶


----------



## Trance_Gott

Since 2013 I had all iterations of the Abyss. The headphone with the greatest visceral impact on the market.
I love them!


----------



## MWeston

Trance_Gott said:


> My 1266 TC also has the sleepy driver problem. Sometimes it's the right side, but the left side was also quieter or didn't work at all. Then you turn the amplifier up briefly and everything runs perfectly. For me it's always when I don't use the headphones for a few days. I had already written to JPS and they said that if both drivers play, I should let them play. The warranty has already expired. Has anyone here with the sleepy driver problem also had a total failure with a driver or do the drivers always start up again? I could live with it if the drivers continued to work like this for many years. Many people here seem to have this problem. Does anyone know what the cause of this is? It must be a production error. @Abyss Headphones


I have a friend who just went through this "sleepy driver" issue on a 1266.  I believe this is what ALL of you are going through (unless you pierced the driver with something!) and it is strange but easily fixed.  His warranty was expired so he was okay with opening it up.

It turns out that crud builds up under the connection of the wire right at the driver diaphragm.  I have never opened mine (too new and work just fine) but there is some kind of clip or mating metal (likely due to limited heating allowable on the planar membrane material) that brings the red and white wires to the tracing.  He gave it a wiggle and lots of crud fell out from under it and then it was all good.  Weeks later, the other driver did it and the same "wiggle the crud out" procedure fixed that one too.  Maybe it is a flux material or membrane coating out-gassing something that migrates onto the metal contacts but only Abyss knows that one.

This was after we diagnosed that the pins still had a 49ish ohm impedance and the wires were still making connections.  It seems that the problem is when current is driven, the connections fail and if you get it to work, it's because you put some vibration into the area that displaced just enough crud to create a minimal connection.  I hope I never need to do this, but if I do, I am somewhat confident that I will be able to fix it.  I treat them like gold so I can't imagine anything else causing a failure.


----------



## Trance_Gott

@MWeston 
Sounds logical and maybe that's the reason why it begin after a longer time. Mine is about 3 years old. 
Have your collegue images and a small description how to exactly opened it? 
I think I read somewhere else that you must be very careful to open because the driver stands in pressure and can falling apart. 
@Abyss Headphones Or can someone from JPS explain how to fix without sending it to the USA. Sounds like it's an little fix to do it yourself.


----------



## normie610 (Dec 26, 2021)

I hope there’s still room for one more post on page 1266! Just got to listen to them today after a long holiday trip (plus mandatory quarantine), and they sound sublime. I initially used the stock cable but then switched to Norne Vykari and the sound became more even with better mids. I must say in my setup, the sound is a bit similar to Susvara.


----------



## Womaz

normie610 said:


> I hope still room for one more post on page 1266! Just got to listen to them today after a long holiday trip (plus mandatory quarantine), and they sound sublime. I initially used the stock cable but then switched to Norne Vykari and the sound became more even with better mids. I must say in my setup, the sound is a bit similar to Susvara.


Ah so you have eventually received them. I am sure the wait was worthwhile


----------



## simorag (Dec 26, 2021)

Here's my hommage to the mighty AB-1266 on its eponymous thread page, through a tour de force playlist of American composers' masterpieces.

Live recordings, big atmospheric sound, huge dynamics swings, a lot of fun  

Only recommendation: play them loud!


----------



## normie610

Womaz said:


> Ah so you have eventually received them. I am sure the wait was worthwhile


Yes finally! Well it performs at the same level as SR1a and Susvara, just a bit of different flavor in tonality, but not by much. And this also applies to the bass, more similar than different (please note that I use EQ for both Susvara and SR1a).


----------



## 13cashewnuts (Dec 26, 2021)

Absolutely love this thread and the almighty 1266 TC!


----------



## Slim1970

normie610 said:


> I hope there’s still room for one more post on page 1266! Just got to listen to them today after a long holiday trip (plus mandatory quarantine), and they sound sublime. I initially used the stock cable but then switched to Norne Vykari and the sound became more even with better mids. I must say in my setup, the sound is a bit similar to Susvara.


Seems there is room for one more


----------



## mitchb

_Still glorious _


----------



## ken6217

leftside said:


> Give it time. It will soon be super cheap.


With cars? You’re out of your mind. Dealers of any make and model can’t even get new cars. Used cars are selling for crazy prices. Prices are crazy. Prices are crazy for everything. 

Let’s go Brandon!


----------



## paradoxper

Vote for Joe. Skubinski.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

That 'crud' would be conductive trace. Moving the contact clip around under tension scrapes off the conductive layer in that area. If this managed to fix a problem, then luck is on his side at least in the short term.

When exposing a planer driver it's far more likely to cause damage than make an effective repair. We always suggest to contact us for service.


----------



## PierPP

1267 Pages 😂


----------



## MWeston

Abyss Headphones said:


> That 'crud' would be conductive trace. Moving the contact clip around under tension scrapes off the conductive layer in that area. If this managed to fix a problem, then luck is on his side at least in the short term.
> 
> When exposing a planer driver it's far more likely to cause damage than make an effective repair. We always suggest to contact us for service.


Well sure, that puts more money in your pocket but what about people who don't live in the US and don't have warranty anymore?  What is the 10 minute fix you would do to these headphones before returning them to a customer? Opening the top cover is no more difficult than having the right screw driver and keeping metal objects away from the driver once you decap it.  It's not like this exists in a vacuum and requires a new indium wire to reseal it after servicing.  It exists in a dynamic environment at 1 atm (loosely) and is subject to all humidity and vibration conditions of its environment.  There's no black magic here and the inside of the headphone is not isolated, nor is it even dust proof.  I guess if you have to remove the old diaphragm and re-tension and glue a new one down, then it is definitely NOT a 10 minute fix or user serviceable.  That's really what I am wondering and this isn't meant to be combative.

Lots of people are very intelligent and can handle a minor repair and be willing to accept the "do this at your own risk, no warranty, blah, blah, blah" disclaimer.   I am just wondering if you might give a brief description of what is happening and why the contact materials are failing to conduct over time so smart customers who would rather save up for the next version you make, can keep the old one going for as long as possible.  The 1266 is my favorite headphone so far and even the cost of replacing the pads someday is enough for me.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

Shipping a headphone our way for repair is the LAST thing we want. Intermittent audio issues are illusive, could be something in the system, a cable, or the headphone. We can typically narrow this down with a few emails, hence the recommendation to CONTACT us for service. Once it's determined we need to evaluate the headphone further, there's nothing more that can be done remotely, it needs to head our way.

We have no method to transfer the tools, test gear, parts, and experience we have in-house to a consumer, dealer, or distributor. The repair volume is far too low to mimic this elsewhere.


----------



## leftside

These headphones are great with all music sources. I can get satisfaction.


----------



## ken6217

If anyone is interested, I will be listing my pristine 1266 TC with Superconductor for sale. It has new ear pads and headband. I also have a Superconductor cable with banana plug to female XLR cable to connect to a speaker amp.


----------



## paradoxper

Ah, Ken doll, baby, what are you doing to me.


----------



## DJJEZ

ken6217 said:


> If anyone is interested, I will be listing my pristine 1266 TC with Superconductor for sale. It has new ear pads and headband. I also have a Superconductor cable with banana plug to female XLR cable to connect to a speaker amp.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Ah, Ken doll, baby, what are you doing to me.


Well Barbie, it’s time to move on. After the couple of months hiatus that I took, I just couldn’t get back into headphones. At the same time I rediscovered my speakers.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Well Barbie, it’s time to move on. After the couple of months hiatus that I took, I just couldn’t get back into headphones. At the same time I rediscovered my speakers.


I blame Fred!

COF !!!!!!!!


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> I blame Fred!
> 
> COF !!!!!!!!


For better or worse


----------



## paradoxper (Dec 27, 2021)

ken6217 said:


> For better or worse


Ohhhh, he is the worst! LOL


----------



## PierPP

... If that counts I just ordered my 1266tc so even if ken is leaving the house we're somewhat even
(I'm trying to have paradox smile)


----------



## PierPP

And looks like they just raised prices in europe. Maybe this is the first time I had luck


----------



## paradoxper

PierPP said:


> ... If that counts I just ordered my 1266tc so even if ken is leaving the house we're somewhat even
> (I'm trying to have paradox smile)


Hate to see him go, love to watch him leave.


----------



## ken6217

PierPP said:


> And looks like they just raised prices in europe. Maybe this is the first time I had luck


Better jump on soon. Gas ain’t the only thing going up.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Hate to see him go, love to watch him leave.


I’m thinking of all the money I’m going to save in the future on frivolous purchases to feed the headphone hobby. 😃


----------



## ken6217

PierPP said:


> ... If that counts I just ordered my 1266tc so even if ken is leaving the house we're somewhat even
> (I'm trying to have paradox smile)


Ain’t gonna happen. The next time Paradox smiles will be the first time.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Ain’t gonna happen. The next time Paradox smiles will be the first time.


When I troll @jlbrach, it really makes me happy.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> When I troll @jlbrach, it really makes me happy.


And let’s not forget Mr Baron.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> And let’s not forget Mr Baron.


The Baron. The legend.


----------



## Trance_Gott

JLoud said:


> Yesterday was the first time my TC had the “sleepy driver”. It was the left side at about 1/2 volume. After turning up the volume for about 15 minutes it balanced out. I hope it doesn’t continue. Really don’t understand why  it happens then goes away.


Have you warranty left?
Have you contacted JPS what they said?


----------



## Ciggavelli

ken6217 said:


> Well Barbie, it’s time to move on. After the couple of months hiatus that I took, I just couldn’t get back into headphones. At the same time I rediscovered my speakers.


----------



## ajreynol (Dec 27, 2021)

Getting ready to order my pair. Could anyone speak to rattling? I was reading that some people have experienced rattling in the bass at certain volume levels. I experienced this as well on my broken pair of 1266's, so I assumed that was all there is to it, but looking back in the thread, I noted a couple of people made mention of an issue like this with their cans as well. Is distortion that can lead to rattling common under high bass scenarios or should I understand this as rare and sign of defect in those cases where it happens?

Also, how has longevity been for those who've had TC's for a few years?

Just want to have the right expectations.


----------



## MasonStorm

ajreynol said:


> Getting ready to order my pair. Could anyone speak to rattling? I was reading that some people have experienced rattling in the bass at certain volume levels. I experienced this as well on my broken pair of 1266's, so I assumed that was all there is to it, but looking back in the thread, I noted a couple of people made mention of an issue like this with their cans as well. Is distortion that can lead to rattling common under high bass scenarios or should I understand this as rare and sign of defect in those cases where it happens?
> 
> Also, how has longevity been for those who've had TC's for a few years?
> 
> Just want to have the right expectations.


It definitely happens and is a defect.  I received my TC and both drivers were defective, doing that rattling from time to time, such as with a really resonant cello note (and I don't listen louder than 80 dB).  I thought (since this also happens w/my OG 1266) that it was a design flaw and that these hearty-looking cans might actually be rather delicate, but reading enough in these forums convinced me otherwise, so I sent the TC in for repair.  They replaced both drivers, and the rattling has not happened since.

But my OG is way out of its warranty period, so I haven't bothered with that one, knowing that they might not have a matching pair of OG drivers still lying around to sell me as replacements.

Some folks on this forum have detected something like a hair stuck into the driver and successfully pulled it out; have a look at that (with the pads off) before you start a repair inquiry, but I definitely wouldn't _open_ a driver yourself.  BTW, don't forget to sign up for the extended warranty on their site after you receive your pair.  I didn't know about that option with my OG, but had learned the lesson in time to activate it for my TC.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Crap I have the sleepy driver problem now every day. 
Waiting for JPS response...


----------



## JLoud

Trance_Gott said:


> Have you warranty left?
> Have you contacted JPS what they said?


Mine are out of warranty. If it gets worse I will contact them but it just started happening the last two days.


----------



## dukeskd

Is it a coincidence its happening in the winter?


----------



## ajreynol

JLoud said:


> Mine are out of warranty. If it gets worse I will contact them but it just started happening the last two days.





Trance_Gott said:


> Crap I have the sleepy driver problem now every day.
> Waiting for JPS response...


If I might ask, how long have you guys owned your cans? 


MasonStorm said:


> It definitely happens and is a defect.  I received my TC and both drivers were defective, doing that rattling from time to time, such as with a really resonant cello note (and I don't listen louder than 80 dB).  I thought (since this also happens w/my OG 1266) that it was a design flaw and that these hearty-looking cans might actually be rather delicate, but reading enough in these forums convinced me otherwise, so I sent the TC in for repair.  They replaced both drivers, and the rattling has not happened since.
> 
> But my OG is way out of its warranty period, so I haven't bothered with that one, knowing that they might not have a matching pair of OG drivers still lying around to sell me as replacements.
> 
> Some folks on this forum have detected something like a hair stuck into the driver and successfully pulled it out; have a look at that (with the pads off) before you start a repair inquiry, but I definitely wouldn't _open_ a driver yourself.  BTW, don't forget to sign up for the extended warranty on their site after you receive your pair.  I didn't know about that option with my OG, but had learned the lesson in time to activate it for my TC.


Thank you for the insight. I haven't ordered my first pair yet. Just getting a lay of the land and making sure I understand all the possible pros and cons before jumping into TC land.


----------



## JLoud

Mine are about 3 years old. Maybe a little more. First issue I have had. I haven't tried swapping cables and such yet but I don't think that is the problem. I think the failure rate is very low. I wouldn't hesitate to buy Abyss again.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Mine are also about 3 years old.


----------



## implicitzen

Out of curiosity, will the 1266 phi tc sound decent coming out of a jotunheim 2? I'm not really looking to upgrade my amp anytime soon but I'm really considering picking these up when my annual bonus comes in, just wondering if it's worth it or if I should look at something lower on the budget ladder.


----------



## JLoud

I had a Jot 1 and it had plenty of power for the TC. You can always upgrade your amp later.


----------



## jlbrach

paradoxper said:


> When I troll @jlbrach, it really makes me happy.


now now, buddies remember?


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> now now, buddies remember?


Quite good buddies. Quite good ball-busters.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Quite good buddies. Quite good ball-busters.


Get a room guys


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Get a room guys


You make me feel like a whore. I love that feeling.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> You make me feel like a whore. I love that feeling.


😘🏳️‍🌈


----------



## Ciggavelli

This new direction in the thread is


----------



## ajreynol

JLoud said:


> Mine are about 3 years old. Maybe a little more. First issue I have had. I haven't tried swapping cables and such yet but I don't think that is the problem. I think the failure rate is very low. I wouldn't hesitate to buy Abyss again.


awesome tyvm


----------



## mitchb

My TC’s sound good with my Niimbus amp but now my other headphones pale in comparison with the TC’s. My LCD4 headphones are nice but I always go back to the TC’s.


----------



## Trance_Gott

My TC is on the way for repair regarding the sleepy driver problem. Now wait begin will take a few weeks.


----------



## paradoxper

Trance_Gott said:


> My TC is on the way for repair regarding the sleepy driver problem. Now wait begin will take a few weeks.


Hang in there!


----------



## ajreynol

Q: How much would an out of warranty driver repair cost? Just making sure I know what I need to know for my decision tonight.


----------



## ufospls2

ajreynol said:


> Q: How much would an out of warranty driver repair cost? Just making sure I know what I need to know for my decision tonight.



Last time I heard was $2500USD for a pair of TC drivers. They are only sold in pairs for driver matching purposes IIRC. I suppose pricing
could have changed due to covid shortages and stuff, not sure. Best to ask Abyss.


----------



## DJJEZ

Looks like abyss have Increased the price of the 1266TC to $6000


----------



## ken6217

DJJEZ said:


> Looks like abyss have Increased the price of the 1266TC to $6000


Actually what’s crazy is that the Susvara was always $6k. Putting sound comparisons aside, there is no comparison in the quality of the two. It’s like a BMW versus Chevy.


----------



## jlbrach

DJJEZ said:


> Looks like abyss have Increased the price of the 1266TC to $6000


seriously?


----------



## jlbrach

ken6217 said:


> Actually what’s crazy is that the Susvara was always $6k. Putting sound comparisons aside, there is no comparison in the quality of the two. It’s like a BMW versus Chevy.


difference is the street price of the susvara hasnt been anywhere near 6k for some time now....


----------



## DJJEZ

jlbrach said:


> seriously?


Check the official abyss site


----------



## Ciggavelli

jlbrach said:


> seriously?


Yeah, I just checked.  THe Susvaras are $6K, but you can easily get them for $4200.  I doubt that you can get the TCs for that from a dealer with this new price increase


----------



## normie610

DJJEZ said:


> Check the official abyss site


Wow you’re right. Perhaps to differentiate 1266 more vs. Diana TC?


----------



## DJJEZ

All the eleven audio gear has gone up in price as well


----------



## Ciggavelli (Dec 28, 2021)

DJJEZ said:


> All the eleven audio gear has gone up in price as well


The Bartok is $18500 now too on their site.  It's $16K elsewhere.  What's Abyss doing?

(nevermind, it's $18500 at other place too)


----------



## Ciggavelli

That $7k we were hypothesizing about the as yet unnamed hypothetical successor to the TCs seems realistic given this new price.  It'll probably be even more now


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> difference is the street price of the susvara hasnt been anywhere near 6k for some time now....


Doesn’t matter. That’s the price. That proves my point even more. The reason why the street price isn’t that, because who wants to pay it. 
You don’t see the TC discounted.


----------



## jlbrach

the prices of pretty much everything is out of control sadly


----------



## genefruit

Reduced from three package options to two, as well.  https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...-ab-1266-phi-headphone?variant=40731525775556


----------



## Ciggavelli

Back to the music, this sounds great out of the TCs, but you gotta listen to it all in one sitting


----------



## paradoxper

@PierPP the price is right in perfect time. LOL


----------



## PierPP

paradoxper said:


> @PierPP the price is right in perfect time. LOL



Components and materials are more expensive now but this is a nice big jump 😆😀


----------



## Stereolab42

DJJEZ said:


> Looks like abyss have Increased the price of the 1266TC to $6000


That explains why the Diana TC came out at the price it did.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Between my Abyss, Wa33 and other equipment - my audio portfolio has risen 20% in the past 3 months. Broker is telling me to sell, but I'm gonna hold.


----------



## Drewligarchy

So I got the LCD 5. I really like it. I almost definitely will keep it. But it's not the Abyss. I feel like I am expecting something to match it, but it's just not going to happen. The Abyss has spoiled me. It's like the LCD 5 is a great headphone, and the Abyss is a great musical experience.

Those of you that have the Raal sr1a - similar to the Abyss in the sense that it's just completely different? Did you get a similar feeling when first listening to the Raal that you did when everything locked in on the Abyss?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Drewligarchy said:


> So I got the LCD 5. I really like it. I almost definitely will keep it. But it's not the Abyss. I feel like I am expecting something to match it, but it's just not going to happen. The Abyss has spoiled me. It's like the LCD 5 is a great headphone, and the Abyss is a great musical experience.
> 
> Those of you that have the Raal sr1a - similar to the Abyss in the sense that it's just completely different? Did you get a similar feeling when first listening to the Raal that you did when everything locked in on the Abyss?


You're experiencing the TC effect, where everything sounds worse in comparison.

Both the TCs and the SR1as are the only headphones that really made me say wow because I was so blown away.   It was the bass with the TCs and the resolution with the SR1as.  Both are different for sure, but they do both have high resolution, a large soundstage, and pinpoint imaging that most other headphones do not have.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> You're experiencing the TC effect, where everything sounds worse in comparison.
> 
> Both the TCs and the SR1as are the only headphones that really made me say wow because I was so blown away.   It was the bass with the TCs and the resolution with the SR1as.  Both are different for sure, but they do both have high resolution, a large soundstage, and pinpoint imaging that most other headphones do not have.


Where is my royalty, sir!   

Agreed. TC is that favored dynamic show-stopper, SR1a is a clever pony. They both present revelation.


----------



## Axel

A 20% price increase.
Thank you Abyss for making my decision easier. Just dropped from my short list.


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> You're experiencing the TC effect, where everything sounds worse in comparison.
> 
> Both the TCs and the SR1as are the only headphones that really made me say wow because I was so blown away.   It was the bass with the TCs and the resolution with the SR1as.  Both are different for sure, but they do both have high resolution, a large soundstage, and pinpoint imaging that most other headphones do not have.


spot on!!!!!!


----------



## Drewligarchy (Dec 29, 2021)

MasonStorm said:


> Some folks on this forum have detected something like a hair stuck into the driver and successfully pulled it out; have a look at that (with the pads off) before you start a repair inquiry, but I definitely wouldn't _open_ a driver yourself.  BTW, don't forget to sign up for the extended warranty on their site after you receive your pair.  I didn't know about that option with my OG, but had learned the lesson in time to activate it for my TC.



This. I was hearing distortion in my left driver intermittently with certain bass notes. Was barely noticeable, I thought it was initially distortion on the track. Then I ran some bass tests. On the Lowest sub bass and hardest hitting tracks, nothing was wrong. The thing that caught it was a solo acoustic bass test track - where it was reproducible every time, with most notes. Not there on my other headphones. Took the earpad off (not the driver enclosure) and gently blew on the driver through the slots like it was a circa 1989 Nintendo tape. It's been gone for weeks now, and my audiophile paranoia has me doing test tracks every time I listen to the TC (and sometimes when I'm just in the room with it). Fortunately it hasn't returned (fingers crossed). I stupidly didn't sign up for the extended warranty because I didn't know there was one - so I thought I was going to have to pay $10k or whatever Abyss drivers are going for now.

The drivers are really relatively exposed with just the fly screen covering them - I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. I wish they used some type of fabric or something (don't know if this would screw up the bass - because this would effectively damp them slightly) because you wear it on your head. Unless your bald, there is a very good chance a hair can get in there.

I love my Abyss - and after I fixed it, for a moment I considered shaving my head. Then I thought about how I would explain to my wife that I shaved my head to protect a headphone, without being institutionalized.


----------



## jlbrach

I guess that is one of the few advantages of having lost my hair lol


----------



## JLoud

Sleepy driver issue fixed. I won't clog up the thread with details but PM if anyone wants the details. Pretty simple fix.


----------



## Roasty

JLoud said:


> Sleepy driver issue fixed. I won't clog up the thread with details but PM if anyone wants the details. Pretty simple fix.



this info would be quite useful. I think it's worth posting here.


----------



## JLoud

Fair enough. I believe the sleepy driver issue is caused by oxidation or something similar at the point of contact between connector leads and driver. These are pressure connectors not soldered. 
After removing pads you remove Allen head screws and carefully lift cover plate. You can then remove connectors from driver and clean surface of connection point. Even simply moving connectors side to side maybe enough to clean connection point. 
It is pretty simple if you take your time and are careful. About 5 minutes to complete.


----------



## joseph69

@JLoud 
Maybe you missed this, this, this and this post?


----------



## SteveM324

Drewligarchy said:


> So I got the LCD 5. I really like it. I almost definitely will keep it. But it's not the Abyss. I feel like I am expecting something to match it, but it's just not going to happen. The Abyss has spoiled me. It's like the LCD 5 is a great headphone, and the Abyss is a great musical experience.
> 
> Those of you that have the Raal sr1a - similar to the Abyss in the sense that it's just completely different? Did you get a similar feeling when first listening to the Raal that you did when everything locked in on the Abyss?


In early December, my friend brought over his SR1a/1b amp and upgraded cable for me to listen in my own system.  It was good but overall, I didn't think it offered enough of a difference to my current collection (Susvara, 1266TC, Utopia, and VO) to justify a purchase.   It was a bit of a letdown but maybe my expectations were unrealistic.  I was hoping that they would deliver a soundstage similiar to some great nearfield speaker setups that I've heard in the past.  It delivered a nice soundstage but nothing like speakers imo.  The soundstage wasn't that much different from the TC, a tiny bit more out of the head but not much.  It's a nice headphone but I didn't think it would over take my TC and Susvara for usage.  I think the TC is definitely more fun and that's what I'm in this hobby for.  

I also tried the 1b as an amp for my other headphones, it's ok but not at the level of my Nirvana or 23R.  I didn't have the 23R at that time, but if the 1b had made a great impression, I might have bought the SR1a/1b because I wanted a SS amp to complement my Nirvana.  I wasn't that impressed with the 1b.  Maybe I would have been more impressed with the SR1a if I had tried it with 1 of my 2 speaker amps but my friend didn't have the speaker amp adapter.  As they say, YMMV.


----------



## MasterZen

JLoud said:


> Fair enough. I believe the sleepy driver issue is caused by oxidation or something similar at the point of contact between connector leads and driver. These are pressure connectors not soldered.
> After removing pads you remove Allen head screws and carefully lift cover plate. You can then remove connectors from driver and clean surface of connection point. Even simply moving connectors side to side maybe enough to clean connection point.
> It is pretty simple if you take your time and are careful. About 5 minutes to complete.



What did you use to clean the surface of the connnection point?


----------



## JLoud

You can use contact cleaner, or I just used a little rubbing alcohol on a Q-tip. Just gently remove any build up. First I would try removing clips or just moving them back and forth. That way you don't remove any coating but displace any oxidation. Mine worked just by removing and replacing connectors. You are just making sure you have good contact between connectors and driver.


----------



## normie610 (Dec 31, 2021)

So almost one week with my new TC, and after finding the right fit (the toe, ear pads, overall position on the head), combined with Vykari cable, the TC sounds amazing. Vykari really lifts up the mids and makes the bass sounds cleaner & more articulate but still with that subwoofer like rumble and impact. The cable also brings more bite to string instruments (it’s somewhat lacking with stock cable) and I can enjoy classical music much more. To me, TC is now a tied 2nd with EQ’d Susvara, however EQ’d SR1a still edges both of them and holds the no 1 spot. All in all very pleased with the purchase, and now still a long wait for CRBN to arrive to complete the system 😊


----------



## simorag

A great way to get into the new year ... listening to this marvel:

www.marecordings.com



A free sampler download which will make your Abyss shine and move your soul too


----------



## Arion128

lucky I purchased it in November, Happy new year all!!


----------



## Trance_Gott (Jan 1, 2022)

JLoud said:


> Fair enough. I believe the sleepy driver issue is caused by oxidation or something similar at the point of contact between connector leads and driver. These are pressure connectors not soldered.
> After removing pads you remove Allen head screws and carefully lift cover plate. You can then remove connectors from driver and clean surface of connection point. Even simply moving connectors side to side maybe enough to clean connection point.
> It is pretty simple if you take your time and are careful. About 5 minutes to complete.


Your action is a good task for a temporaly fix but how long it takes to the next sleepy action of the drivers?
Mine is on the way for repair. They will replace the diaphragm assemblies with a new matched set and I have the guarantee that this will work! Okay it cost money but I have a guarantee for it and they will assist me in future when something comes up.
Jps definitely does not want the same problem to arise every 3 years! I'm sure they know the problem of the older drivers and fixed it already although they do not want to say what exactly the problem is.


----------



## JLoud

If by temporary you mean years, then yes it is temporary. But as this appears to be a sensitive subject I won't comment on it anymore.


----------



## Trance_Gott

JLoud said:


> If by temporary you mean years, then yes it is temporary. But as this appears to be a sensitive subject I won't comment on it anymore.


Months, maybe years when this is really the reason for the sleepy driver problem you have luck and saved money.


----------



## Roasty

Trance_Gott said:


> Your action is a good task for a temporaly fix but how long it takes to the next sleepy action of the drivers?
> Mine is on the way for repair. They will replace the diaphragm assemblies with a new matched set and I have the guarantee that this will work! Okay it cost money but I have a guarantee for it and they will assist me in future when something comes up.
> Jps definitely does not want the same problem to arise every 3 years! I'm sure they know the problem of the older drivers and fixed it already although they do not want to say what exactly the problem is.



How much does it cost to get the repair done?


----------



## szymonsays

Roasty said:


> How much does it cost to get the repair done?


If his headphones are under warranty, why is he paying for repair costs?


----------



## Roasty

szymonsays said:


> If his headphones are under warranty, why is he paying for repair costs?



U might want to ask him that.


----------



## geoffalter11

jlbrach said:


> the prices of pretty much everything is out of control sadly


And will continue to go up.  In my industry equipment pricing is up 40-48% with 6-7 month lead times.  Insanity.


----------



## Trance_Gott (Jan 2, 2022)

Roasty said:


> How much does it cost to get the repair done?


Not 2500 USD for sure. 
My headphone is out of warranty.


----------



## Roasty

Trance_Gott said:


> Not 2500 USD for sure.
> My headphone is out of warranty.



is there a reason why u didn't leave the actual value u paid on the post? I have seen it on my email notification for this thread.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Roasty said:


> is there a reason why u didn't leave the actual value u paid on the post? I have seen it on my email notification for this thread.


Don't know if I can post here invoice values. Is a sensible thing.
So it is little under 1000 usd.


----------



## Roasty

Trance_Gott said:


> Don't know if I can post here invoice values. Is a sensible thing.
> So it is little under 1000 usd.



Thanks for the ballpark figure. I'm sure those who have email notifications to this thread would have also seen the actual value. Anyways I respect your decision for the discretion. I guess it is somewhat comforting to know the figure is not too astronomical, especially for both drivers swapped out and matched. 

I'm one of the unfortunate few who had the sleepy driver issue (fixed), and also one of the unfortunate few who were not aware of the extended warranty. I can only hope I won't be needing further repairs anytime soon, or ever, if I'm lucky.


----------



## vonBaron

It sux that can happen any time...


----------



## Trance_Gott

They rebuild using the exiting assembly, baffle and magnet remains the same. Completely new driver assemblies are twice the price.
They told me the drivers are then like new!


----------



## Sajid Amit

Friends, has anyone on this thread compared the Denafrips Terminator Plus with the Chord Dave + Mscaler?


----------



## eee1111

Sajid Amit said:


> Friends, has anyone on this thread compared the Denafrips Terminator Plus with the Chord Dave + Mscaler?


You’re never gonna stop until you’ve conquered it all huh?


----------



## Sajid Amit

eee1111 said:


> You’re never gonna stop until you’ve conquered it all huh?


Lol


----------



## Trance_Gott

Sajid Amit said:


> Friends, has anyone on this thread compared the Denafrips Terminator Plus with the Chord Dave + Mscaler?


You have too much money. 
Better go for a HE-1 and that's the end. 
But I have the feeling people don't want a end (hehe like me).


----------



## ahossam

Sajid Amit said:


> Friends, has anyone on this thread compared the Denafrips Terminator Plus with the Chord Dave + Mscaler?


Comparing Dave + Mscaler with T+ I think you need to add Denafrips GAIA to the equation.


----------



## Bonddam

Lots of inflation this year! Are the Diana TC not going up figure they use same material?


----------



## Sajid Amit

Trance_Gott said:


> You have too much money.
> Better go for a HE-1 and that's the end.
> But I have the feeling people don't want a end (hehe like me).


Lol. 

Wasn’t the biggest fan of the HE1.

Probably prefer the Sus / TC on a good rig, to the HE1. 🙂

Solid all-rounder though.


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> Lots of inflation this year! Are the Diana TC not going up figure they use same material?



Could be that the Diana TC is relatively new and any price increase was already factored into it when it was released.


----------



## Drewligarchy

I was apparently wrong when I thought I had fixed the distorting driver issue in my 2019 Abyss TC. I though there was a hair on it, or some other debris, because when I lightly blew on it through the slots, the distortion stopped for a couple weeks. It just returned. On a solo bass track it was sort of like a "shh" every time the attack of a bass note was struck. It's not a sleepy driver as has been mentioned recently, but looks like my TCs have to go in nonetheless.

Does this sound more like the resonance issue described earlier in the thread?


----------



## geoffalter11

Trance_Gott said:


> You have too much money.
> Better go for a HE-1 and that's the end.
> But I have the feeling people don't want a end (hehe like me).


The journey is the prize.  End game is a myth.  It's a cute sentiment, though.  As long as we continue to evolve, so will our tastes.  Hearing is just like the palate.  The more I taste, the more refined my palate becomes.  The more I listen, the more refined my hearing becomes.


----------



## yagislav

Does anybody have experience pairing the Simaudio Moon 430HA headphone amp with the 1266 TC? Any impressions?


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

yagislav said:


> Does anybody have experience pairing the Simaudio Moon 430HA headphone amp with the 1266 TC? Any impressions?


I use the PHI TC with the Moon 430 as an amp and the Hugo TT2 as a DAC.  I am absolutely satisfied with it, the 430 has enough power.


----------



## ufospls2

yagislav said:


> Does anybody have experience pairing the Simaudio Moon 430HA headphone amp with the 1266 TC? Any impressions?


Good combo imo. Worth trying to find the 430 on the used market, as some of the prices are pretty attractive these days. If you buy the HAD, the DAC isn't great, but the amp with a good external DAC is a good idea I think.


----------



## mitchb

I’m loving my TC’s with my Niimbus amp and PS Audio Directstream dac. I had a Moon 430 HA for a year and enjoyed it but I moved on to the Niimbus. I had an Auralic Taurus Mk2 amp which was surprisingly good. The Moon would match well with the TC’s.


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

I actually wanted to sell my Moon Neo 430 and replace it with the Formula S. But the prices traded with the Neo 430 were clearly not enough for me.  Above all, mine does not have 1000 operating hours after three years.  I love the remote control and the exact setting of the volume is what I love about the Moon in addition to the optics and high-quality workmanship.


----------



## jlbrach

Paul Noir Culte said:


> I use the PHI TC with the Moon 430 as an amp and the Hugo TT2 as a DAC.  I am absolutely satisfied with it, the 430 has enough power.


plenty of power no doubt


----------



## Sajid Amit

Paul Noir Culte said:


> I use the PHI TC with the Moon 430 as an amp and the Hugo TT2 as a DAC.  I am absolutely satisfied with it, the 430 has enough power.


Yes. And great synergy with the TC, the 430 has.


----------



## ra990

Sajid Amit said:


> Yes. And great synergy with the TC, the 430 has.


Quoting Yoda?


----------



## MatW

ra990 said:


> Quoting Yoda?


The same thought, I had. 😅


----------



## Sajid Amit

ra990 said:


> Quoting Yoda?


Lol. Always.


----------



## ajreynol

I don't suppose anyone is looking to unload their XI Audio Formula S + Powerman combo? 

I'm concerned that my amp (v281) and/or dac (Chord 2Qute) is causing bass distortion at medium volume levels so I'm looking at options to replace them. A bit discouraging as I was under the impression that the v281 was a solid (though maybe not great) pairing for the TC, but the bass distortion I'm hearing at medium volume levels (10:30 on the pot, or about 40% of the dial, even with a completely seal) is completely unacceptable. Assuming the headphones aren't the problem, the only thing left to do is look at the amp and dac. I assume a DAC probably isn't going to cause bass distortion, so I'm looking at the amp setup first.

If anyone has insights into potential causes of bass distortion that would allow me to avoid wholesale replacement of what has otherwise been good equipment, I'd appreciate the thoughts.


----------



## ufospls2

ajreynol said:


> I don't suppose anyone is looking to unload their XI Audio Formula S + Powerman combo?
> 
> I'm concerned that my amp (v281) and/or dac (Chord 2Qute) is causing bass distortion at medium volume levels so I'm looking at options to replace them. A bit discouraging as I was under the impression that the v281 was a solid (though maybe not great) pairing for the TC, but the bass distortion I'm hearing at medium volume levels (10:30 on the pot, or about 40% of the dial, even with a completely seal) is completely unacceptable. Assuming the headphones aren't the problem, the only thing left to do is look at the amp and dac. I assume a DAC probably isn't going to cause bass distortion, so I'm looking at the amp setup first.
> 
> If anyone has insights into potential causes of bass distortion that would allow me to avoid wholesale replacement of what has otherwise been good equipment, I'd appreciate the thoughts.


The V281 should have enough power to not be running out of it, causing the bass distortion. I think it is more powerful than the Formula S also.

Do you have all the settings right in terms of gain? Try maxing all the gain options out.

Check you don't have any EQ or anything running. Could be the Qutest overloading the input of the amp but I doubt that. Do check though, and go lower input volume, higher output volume on the amp. See if that helps.

If you still have distortion, it may be the headphones, but try checking the gain options first, and also making sure no settings are wrong in terms of EQ or something.


----------



## Roasty

ajreynol said:


> even with a completely seal



do u usually wear the TC with a complete pad seal around the ears? if so, that may be the problem.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> do u usually wear the TC with a complete pad seal around the ears? if so, that may be the problem.



I think what he was trying to say is that even if he uses a tight seal (where bass is less) he still hears distortion.


----------



## ken6217

I used the V281 when I wasn’t using a speaker amp and it has more than enough power. I didn’t even have it at its highest gain and it played louder than most people listen and that was at 1 o’clock on the dial. Also there was no distortion.  

Do use balanced or single landed in? In the balanced configuration it’s double the power.


----------



## jlbrach

the 281 is more than powerful enough for pretty much any HP....subjective preference is another thing


----------



## ajreynol

ufospls2 said:


> The V281 should have enough power to not be running out of it, causing the bass distortion. I think it is more powerful than the Formula S also.
> 
> Do you have all the settings right in terms of gain? Try maxing all the gain options out.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply. No EQ is running. Gain is +18 on both channels, as expected. Distortion is clearly audible at past 11am on the dial (v281 starts at "7pm" and maxes at "5pm"). Distortion is present regardless of gain level, I find, when approaching similar volume levels.

I've also tried lowering the PC volume to half to see if it would make a difference. It has not. Unfortunately I do not have another DAC to try to see if it's an issue with the 2Qute. I am worried.


ken6217 said:


> I used the V281 when I wasn’t using a speaker amp and it has more than enough power. I didn’t even have it at its highest gain and it played louder than most people listen and that was at 1 o’clock on the dial. Also there was no distortion.
> 
> Do use balanced or single landed in? In the balanced configuration it’s double the power.


Using balanced/XLR output. Single input, as the 2Qute doesn't have XLR output.



Roasty said:


> do u usually wear the TC with a complete pad seal around the ears? if so, that may be the problem.


They are new to me. I've tested a variety of positions and pad positions, as you might imagine. Sounds fine at low and medium volume levels. Beyond that and the bass distortion becomes perceptible. I imagine there is distortion even at the lower volume levels, just not enough to notice.


ken6217 said:


> I think what he was trying to say is that even if he uses a tight seal (where bass is less) he still hears distortion.


yep!


----------



## tholt

ajreynol said:


> Thanks for the reply. No EQ is running. Gain is +18 on both channels, as expected. Distortion is clearly audible at past 11am on the dial (v281 starts at "7pm" and maxes at "5pm"). Distortion is present regardless of gain level, I find, when approaching similar volume levels.
> 
> I've also tried lowering the PC volume to half to see if it would make a difference. It has not. Unfortunately I do not have another DAC to try to see if it's an issue with the 2Qute. I am worried.
> 
> ...



I use the 281. Sounds great, no distortion. I don't even have any gain on, just the unity gain. Volume knob is always somewhere between 10 and 2, no more than that. You really need that much gain? Maybe the problem is you're listening too loud! Or maybe something wrong with the amp

Edit -- I should note that I use XLR in and out


----------



## ken6217

Where are the seams on the pads when looking at the front of them? Try positioning them at 11:00.


----------



## ajreynol (Jan 5, 2022)

tholt said:


> I use the 281. Sounds great, no distortion. I don't even have any gain on, just the unity gain. Volume knob is always somewhere between 10 and 2, no more than that. You really need that much gain? Maybe the problem is you're listening too loud! Or maybe something wrong with the amp
> 
> Edit -- I should note that I use XLR in and out


Thank you for the additional 281 data point. Yea single vs XLR in are pretty different apparently. Half the power?

With single input it doesn't generally need max gain (maybe +6), but I run it with a preamp of -6 to -9 depending on EQ, so it takes advantage of the max gain in those scenarios. In that scenario, it needs to be at about 10 to hit a good sound level with these. With no EQ, I'd have it with no gain at all in that 10-2 range as you mention. Maybe closer to 9-9:30 on my LCD-4/5's.

I don't listen beyond normal volume levels. Certainly nothing excessive. Certainly no volume level that ever gave my LCD-4's any trouble at all.



ken6217 said:


> Where are the seams on the pads when looking at the front of them? Try positioning them at 11:00.


At 11, yea. I tried everything from 9 - 12. I'm happy with the pad positioning.


----------



## tholt

ajreynol said:


> I don't listen beyond normal volume levels. Certainly nothing excessive. Certainly no volume level that ever gave my LCD-4's any trouble at all.


I was halfway joking. But certainly listening to bass-heavy tracks at high volume could lead to distortion. The fit could also contribute to some distortion, depending on how loose it is against your ears. Sounds like something else might be going on though. Strange. Maybe try eliminating the preamp in the chain and just go DAC > 281 direct to see if anything changes.


----------



## ken6217

Definitely try changing the pad position.


----------



## ajreynol (Jan 5, 2022)

tholt said:


> I was halfway joking. But certainly listening to bass-heavy tracks at high volume could lead to distortion. The fit could also contribute to some distortion, depending on how loose it is against your ears. Sounds like something else might be going on though. Strange. Maybe try eliminating the preamp in the chain and just go DAC > 281 direct to see if anything changes.


Yea I would expect that bass heavy + high volume would lead to distortion at some point on even the best cans. That said,  I know these cans are lauded for their bass performance in particular, so I expect them to at least match my LCD-4's without any distortion issues at similar volume levels. I'm sure they can based on all the feedback I've read and watched on the TC's, so the question is simply why aren't they for me right now.

I removed the gain. With NO gain or EQ, single ended input from 2Qute, XLR out on my v281, using this track:



Distortion in the bass starts at about 2 on the dial. Sounds good at like 12, but on this track, it's below my preferred listening level. At my preferred listening level (or well beyond it for testing purposes), the LCD-4's do not distort. Or, I don't hear distortion. 

And for clarity, the cans are relatively snug on my noggin, minimal seal break if any at all. The cans are not loose in any way. I know a little loose is considered a recommended way to wear them, but that made them sound even more distorted. Snug fits well and the bass sound great at lower volume levels. It's just once you get to medium or slightly higher listening levels that things start falling apart.



ken6217 said:


> Definitely try changing the pad position.


sent you a pm!


----------



## ken6217

Maybe the issue is the Qutest.

https://www.stereonet.com/forums/topic/247015-chord-qutest-analogue-output-voltage/


----------



## tholt

ajreynol said:


> Yea I would expect that bass heavy + high volume would lead to distortion at some point on even the best cans. That said,  I know these cans are lauded for their bass performance in particular, so I expect them to at least match my LCD-4's without any distortion issues at similar volume levels. I'm sure they can based on all the feedback I've read and watched on the TC's, so the question is simply why aren't they for me right now.
> 
> I removed the gain. With NO gain or EQ, single ended input from 2Qute, XLR out on my v281, using this track:
> 
> ...



Nothing should distort on that track, or really any track unless it's super deep/loud. Did you remove the preamp to check?


----------



## ufospls2 (Jan 6, 2022)

Sounds like they might need to go back to abyss to get checked out 

I'd send them an email to get their opinion on the matter.


----------



## Abyss Headphones (Jan 6, 2022)

This is really simple, the V281 amp is clipping at his listening levels. It has a hard current limit, and once you hit it, you'll hear it. We spoke to the owner yesterday and concluded this is the issue.


----------



## ajaipuriyar

ufospls2 said:


> Sounds like they might need to go back to abyss to get checked out @ajaipuriyar
> 
> I'd send them an email to get their opinion on the matter.


Why am I tagged? What did I miss?


----------



## ufospls2

ajaipuriyar said:


> Why am I tagged? What did I miss?


Sorry man, tagged the wrong person. My bad 100%


----------



## Abyss Headphones

As a side, might want to try unity gain setting to match other 281 owner and see what that does. Noticed that as gain is increase on that amp so is its input sensitivity, which means a high gain setting would overload the input easier.


----------



## ken6217

If May be wrong but I think I saw him say +18. It doesn’t go higher than +12 so maybe I read wrong. I used to use +6 on my V281 and listen at about 1 o’clock on the dial. That’s with 4 V input from my DAC. I think the combo of the amp and the output voltage from the Qutest is the issue.


----------



## deuter

Probably get a discount amp to try


----------



## Olmanwood123

Is there any news or speculation on a driver update for the 1266 TC’s given the Diana just updated? From initial reviews it seems the Diana has been brought much closer to the 1266 TC’s


----------



## jlbrach

hope not, my wallet is not prepared for the insane price it would likely cost lol


----------



## ra990

jlbrach said:


> hope not, my wallet is not prepared for the insane price it would likely cost lol


Abyss 1266 FUBAR - for the low low price of $9,999


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Would anybody in this group know of a professional reworking cable connections? 

In this case, I’d not like an adapter. I used to have this done by Triton Audio, but David is according to the website not offering this anymore. Thanks!


----------



## genefruit

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Would anybody in this group know of a professional reworking cable connections?
> 
> In this case, I’d not like an adapter. I used to have this done by Triton Audio, but David is according to the website not offering this anymore. Thanks!


I believe Trevor of Norne does but it might be limited to his cables.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Jan 8, 2022)

genefruit said:


> I believe Trevor of Norne does but it might be limited to his cables.


Yes, he does it for his cables which is great. However, I might be too impatient to wait 8 months this time 😝


----------



## paradoxper (Jan 8, 2022)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Would anybody in this group know of a professional reworking cable connections?
> 
> In this case, I’d not like an adapter. I used to have this done by Triton Audio, but David is according to the website not offering this anymore. Thanks!


If you are looking for a re-terminated option, there may be a slew of DIY members since you're not inclined to wait on the cable guys.


----------



## genefruit

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Yes, he does it for his cables which is great. However, I might be too impatient to wait 8 months this time 😝


I've been fortunate not to experience the delays that others have noted.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

paradoxper said:


> If you are looking for a re-terminated option, there may be a slew of DIY members since you're not inclined to wait on the cable guys.


Haha, you make me sound impatient, which I don’t believe to be. Anyway, if you know any professional and recommended member, please let me know.


----------



## paradoxper

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Haha, you make me sound impatient, which I don’t believe to be. Anyway, if you know any professional and recommended member, please let me know.


You keep using this professional word. LOL

I understand Trevor has long lead times, so does Peter and the rest of them especially for a termination service. 
I have plenty of friends who build very high end things. I am not sure if they're professionals.


----------



## MaggotBrain

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Would anybody in this group know of a professional reworking cable connections?
> 
> In this case, I’d not like an adapter. I used to have this done by Triton Audio, but David is according to the website not offering this anymore. Thanks!


Ted allen (tedallen0220@gmail.com) has fixed numerous cables for me and always at very reasonable rates.  He most recently reterminated furutech mini 
XLRs to fit my DHC Prion to an Abyss and it has worked out great.  
Hope that helps.


----------



## Olmanwood123

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Would anybody in this group know of a professional reworking cable connections?
> 
> In this case, I’d not like an adapter. I used to have this done by Triton Audio, but David is according to the website not offering this anymore. Thanks!


I do, but they are located in Toronto, Canada. https://audiosensibility.com/blog/


----------



## notofthisworld

Olmanwood123 said:


> I do, but they are located in Toronto, Canada. https://audiosensibility.com/blog/


Are you using any of their cables with the AB 1266s?  I've purchased a number of cables from them over the years for my 2 channel set up but haven't tried their headphone cable.  I believe they have similar specs to the Silver Dragon cable from Moon Audio.  Not sure how that compares with alternatives from Lavricables, Danacables, or the the JPS Superconductor cable.  Sharing any experiences you've had would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Olmanwood123

notofthisworld said:


> Are you using any of their cables with the AB 1266s?  I've purchased a number of cables from them over the years for my 2 channel set up but haven't tried their headphone cable.  I believe they have similar specs to the Silver Dragon cable from Moon Audio.  Not sure how that compares with alternatives from Lavricables, Danacables, or the the JPS Superconductor cable.  Sharing any experiences you've had would be greatly appreciated.


I am using their copper core cables currently and am looking to try their silvers in the near future. They produce solid headphone cables and I use them with all of my headphones currently. Don't have a reference against the cables you mentioned, but they sound good, are local (Canada) and reasonably priced (ticks a lot of boxes)


----------



## llamaluv

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Would anybody in this group know of a professional reworking cable connections?
> 
> In this case, I’d not like an adapter. I used to have this done by Triton Audio, but David is according to the website not offering this anymore. Thanks!


I was going to ask this exact same question for the exact same reason on another thread and ended up sending my headphone cables to Ted Allen (HeadphoneLounge) just yesterday.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Jan 9, 2022)

Guys - I am trying to troubleshoot bass distortion with my Abyss and it's driving me mad. Mostly because it's intermittent and minor and been going on about 3 weeks. Essentially I hear a "ch" on the attack of bass notes in the left driver.

I most easily was able to isolate it with this simple acoustic bass test. The problem is most of the time there is no distortion (90 -95%). 5-10% of the time when the distortion is occurring it's most easily picked up by this track, but it's pretty minor. So difficult to pick up while other music is playing but doable.



It happens like once a week, so it's very hard to figure out what the hell is going on. I've been in contact with Abyss and they told me to flip cables. Well, I have dual XLR Super Conductor cables and I did - and then I noticed the distortion move from the left driver to the right driver. Once. This was the one and only time I heard it in the right driver. So I sent the cable to Abyss to have a look about a week ago.

In the past week I've been listening to the stock cable, and no distortion ... until last night. I heard it again in the left driver and went back to my test track and confirmed. Then I swapped cables, but it stayed in the left driver. So turns out my SC cable must be fine.

This occurs with multiple amps and the Abyss but does not occur with other headphones. I initially thought it might be a hair or something stuck in the driver, so I gently blew on the driver and it went away. But then it came back a few days later. And then it goes away in a couple minutes. Seems to only occur when the headphones have been in use for a while.

When the distortion occurs, I try to decrease the air gap between the drivers and my head to no avail.

It has gotta be the drivers, right? Or at least the headphones and the internal connections to the drivers. Or the mini-xlr female connections? It's driving me absolutely batty.

Anyone experience anything like this before? Any help is appreciated.


----------



## paradoxper

Drewligarchy said:


> Guys - I am trying to troubleshoot bass distortion with my Abyss and it's driving me mad. Mostly because it's intermittent and minor and been going on about 3 weeks. Essentially I hear a "ch" on the attack of bass notes in the left driver.
> 
> I most easily was able to isolate it with this simple acoustic bass test:
> 
> ...



Ha. This is maddening. Have you tried purposefully stressing and clipping to instigate and isolate this "ch" and has it always only been on bass notes since it is so intermittent?


----------



## Drewligarchy (Jan 9, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> Ha. This is maddening. Have you tried purposefully stressing and clipping to instigate and isolate this "ch" and has it always only been on bass notes since it is so intermittent?



Yes - but it also seems to not at all be correlated to level. When it occurs, it's there at high volume and low volume. When it's not there - you can't summon it by blasting it. I've tried 

Always been on bass notes. Specifically mid-bassy stuff like you hear in the track. And always on the attack. Sub bass stuff never distorts - and I can blast that.


----------



## paradoxper

Drewligarchy said:


> Yes - but it also seems to not at all be correlated to level. When it occurs, it's there at high volume and low volume. When it's not there - you can't summon it by blasting it. I've tried
> 
> Always been on bass notes. Specifically mid-bassy stuff like you hear in the track. And always on the attack. Sub bass stuff never distorts - and I can blast that.


Ah. No brute force. From decoupling seal, and high-low volume and switched cables, it sounds like a high probability, it is an internal connection. The chances of both drivers defecting is quite slim. The fact it's very intermittent clearly points to a fickle connection.

Abyss should have note of this potential character though and best guide you. I recall sending my 007 all the ****ing way back to Japan only for them to tell you, oh nothing wrong here thanks for the airfare and service tax. LOL


----------



## Drewligarchy

paradoxper said:


> Ah. No brute force. From decoupling seal, and high-low volume and switched cables, it sounds like a high probability, it is an internal connection. The chances of both drivers defecting is quite slim. The fact it's very intermittent clearly points to a fickle connection.
> 
> Abyss should have note of this potential character though and best guide you. I recall sending my 007 all the ****ing way back to Japan only for them to tell you, oh nothing wrong here thanks for the airfare and service tax. LOL



I came close to sending my 009 to Stax but figured out the issue was with my preamp. At least Joe and crew are just upstate from me.


----------



## OceanRanger

I've been listening solely to Susvaras for the last month. They are light, super comfy and bring magic to the midrange present in acoustic folk. This morning I put on the 1266 TCs. I was immediately captivated by the detail and dynamics of the 1266s. I really do love both of these headphones. Part of me thinks that changing components in the chain every so often is a good thing for enjoyment and appreciation of individual characteristics of gear...


----------



## Homrsimson

Any views on the best DAC for the TC in the 2-3k range? I have a pure audio labs lotus DAC5, which is very good but probably the weak part of my setup. My amp is a Gilmore CFA3. Thanks


----------



## mitchb

I don’t know about the best but I am enjoying a PS Audio Directstream dac which is in that price point second hand.


----------



## Litlgi74

Get a (used) Lumin and be done.


----------



## Homrsimson

Litlgi74 said:


> Get a (used) Lumin and be done.


Thanks, which model?


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Jan 17, 2022)

.


----------



## Litlgi74

Homrsimson said:


> Thanks, which model?


I have a T2... Awesome all in one solution.


----------



## paradoxper

Homrsimson said:


> Any views on the best DAC for the TC in the 2-3k range? I have a pure audio labs lotus DAC5, which is very good but probably the weak part of my setup. My amp is a Gilmore CFA3. Thanks


If you may stretch to Holo May, you'd likely be exploiting the best performance up to $10k. It's also a very good match with the CFA3 which can benefit from a splash of warmth.


----------



## Litlgi74

paradoxper said:


> If you may stretch to Holo May, you'd likely be exploiting the best performance up to $10k. It's also a very good match with the CFA3 which can benefit from a splash of warmth.


Same with the T2. One of the first things I noticed when comparing my Moon 600i and the CFA3.


----------



## paradoxper

Litlgi74 said:


> Same with the T2. One of the first things I noticed when comparing my Moon 600i and the CFA3.


I would only argue the T2 and his current DAC are very similar which could be good or bad depending on his desired pursuit. The May will definitely shift the tonal presentation of the CFA3, so there is that to consider. I wouldn't find the T2 the most ideal match with CFA3.


----------



## Litlgi74

paradoxper said:


> I would only argue the T2 and his current DAC are very similar which could be good or bad depending on his desired pursuit. The May will definitely shift the tonal presentation of the CFA3, so there is that to consider. I wouldn't find the T2 the most ideal match with CFA3.


Whatever... Be like that. 🤪


----------



## paradoxper

Litlgi74 said:


> Whatever... Be like that. 🤪


I always am.


----------



## JLoud

I'll throw the Schiit Yggdrasil into the consideration. Very nice DAC if you don't care about MQA. Fits your budget well.


----------



## normie610

Litlgi74 said:


> Same with the T2. One of the first things I noticed when comparing my Moon 600i and the CFA3.


+1 for T2 😊


----------



## Sajid Amit

paradoxper said:


> If you may stretch to Holo May, you'd likely be exploiting the best performance up to $10k. It's also a very good match with the CFA3 which can benefit from a splash of warmth.


+1


----------



## Sajid Amit

The May is a fantastic pairing with the TC.


----------



## yagislav

The Enleum AMP-23R with the 1266 TC is really something special. For those who have tried / tested, did you prefer high or low gain for the 1266 TC?


----------



## jlbrach

got to be high...as I mentioned in the other thread it needs high gain on the 13r and they have the same power rating


----------



## yagislav

jlbrach said:


> got to be high...as I mentioned in the other thread it needs high gain on the 13r and they have the same power rating


I see. On high gain at 10 oclock gets pretty loud for me already, what a great amp though!


----------



## rreynolds

Receiving my 1266 tomorrow. Already scheduled PTO at work & can't wait to post impressions. Was impressed with the Diana V1 a few years back and have high expectations for these.


----------



## paradoxper

rreynolds said:


> Receiving my 1266 tomorrow. Already scheduled PTO at work & can't wait to post impressions. Was impressed with the Diana V1 a few years back and have high expectations for these.


Buckle up, baby!


----------



## Dynamo5561

rreynolds said:


> Receiving my 1266 tomorrow. Already scheduled PTO at work & can't wait to post impressions. Was impressed with the Diana V1 a few years back and have high expectations for these.


The greatest joy is the joy of anticipation, that's what's normally said. But with the 1266 the joy really starts when you have them on your head  Enjoy!


----------



## leftside

Dynamo5561 said:


> The greatest joy is the joy of anticipation, that's what's normally said. But with the 1266 the joy really starts when you have them on your head  Enjoy!


And after you've adjusted them properly


----------



## jlbrach

yes, have patience it will take some time to get it right...dont get discouraged


----------



## rreynolds

Never expected to own a hp in the hobby that looked or felt anything like the Abyss AB1266. The jeep video isn't so much of a surprise after feeling the build quality of this for the first time. This truly is built to last a long long time. The wooden box, the smell of the leather bag, the robust weight of this monster.. it all screams quality. Warming up the Burson Soloist GT for what'll hopefully be an experience. Can't wait to update with first impressions!


----------



## rreynolds

rreynolds said:


> Never expected to own a hp in the hobby that looked or felt anything like the Abyss AB1266. The jeep video isn't so much of a surprise after feeling the build quality of this for the first time. This truly is built to last a long long time. The wooden box, the smell of the leather bag, the robust weight of this monster.. it all screams quality. Warming up the Burson Soloist GT for what'll hopefully be an experience. Can't wait to update with first impressions!


*First Impressions:* I can truly say with confidence this is the epitome of planar bass response. The amount of detail present on the lower end is absurd, seriously. I've described the Audeze LCD-4 hitting like a sledgehammer... The 1266 is like firing a howitzer from inside a cavern. It's huge, aggressive, and impressive. Decided to throw on The Weeknd's Dawn FM to really get a taste of what these can do and, to my delight, was provided a masterclass of technical performance and sheer blunt force. With the Burson GT on high gain, these are almost borderline abuse. I love it and have begun the process of combing my music library to flesh out all there is to hear. Getting the perfect fit is going to take some time, but I guess that'll happen while the listening is happening.


----------



## ra990

@paradoxper you mentioned a convolution filter EQ was coming for the TC in the Audeze LCD 5 thread. Can you provide any more details? Who is making it and where can I try it?


----------



## number1sixerfan

ra990 said:


> @paradoxper you mentioned a convolution filter EQ was coming for the TC in the Audeze LCD 5 thread. Can you provide any more details? Who is making it and where can I try it?



I was actually going to PM him and ask the same thing lol


----------



## paradoxper

Mitch will be making it. If he whom is responsible wishes to fill in the blanks, otherwise...


----------



## StarFox132

rreynolds said:


> *First Impressions:* I can truly say with confidence this is the epitome of planar bass response. The amount of detail present on the lower end is absurd, seriously. I've described the Audeze LCD-4 hitting like a sledgehammer... The 1266 is like firing a howitzer from inside a cavern. It's huge, aggressive, and impressive. Decided to throw on The Weeknd's Dawn FM to really get a taste of what these can do and, to my delight, was provided a masterclass of technical performance and sheer blunt force. With the Burson GT on high gain, these are almost borderline abuse. I love it and have begun the process of combing my music library to flesh out all there is to hear. Getting the perfect fit is going to take some time, but I guess that'll happen while the listening is happening.


These were my first impressions as well and the 1266s continue to amaze me to this day. I have a Burson stack running them also and they work very well together. I'm STILL combing through my music collection to listen to tracks in a "new light". Happy listening! Cheers!


----------



## cjarrett

Sometime this week I'm gonna try to fit on some ZMF pads to see if the fit is any better or more comfortable.  I'm never had much problems, but the adhesive on the pads is starting to come off when I muck around since the magnets are stronger--so figure I'll experiment a bit.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Got these on Saturday. Little nooblet over here running the 1266 TC out of an A90 stack.  The one thing I want to kinda of like, umm, "contest" right out of the gate is the argument concerning comfort and weight. I am 24 and often cut my hair completely bald or let it grow. I have absolutely 0 issues with the weight or comfort. I have 'em on now and I don't notice it at all.

And that brings me to my second finding which is the vocals. Vocals out of the a90 are pretty linear. I'm not getting this sucked out or thin quality (perhaps due to the a90 being the way it is) but I can tell I'm not getting the bass or soundstage I would like out of this amp, regardless of burn in. It's a very V2 experience atm lol. I only have 20 hours of use on my end. The vocalists sound even more full than they do on my vocal forward sennheiser cans. But again, pretty sure it's just easier to hear the singers when the bass is being underpowered/not broken in. But even like this it's still my favorite headphone. Super premium build too. They're right about pictures not doing it justice. You really have to see it for yourself.


----------



## Olmanwood123

I found it really took having them connected to a quality speaker amp before I got the full 1266 TC experience. Now I am blown away - literally  Bass, sub-bass, soundstage, all of it is ever so present, crisp/snappy and clear. Have fun on the journey.


----------



## fiiom11pro

Olmanwood123 said:


> I found it really took having them connected to a quality speaker amp before I got the full 1266 TC experience. Now I am blown away - literally  Bass, sub-bass, soundstage, all of it is ever so present, crisp/snappy and clear. Have fun on the journey.


what speaker amp did u use? are u using the speaker taps? congrats on your purchase.


----------



## Olmanwood123

fiiom11pro said:


> what speaker amp did u use? are u using the speaker taps? congrats on your purchase.


I am using a Chord Etude with my TT2/Mscaler combo. And yes I am using speaker taps.


----------



## SoundJedi

Out of 100, how far do you guys think the Cayin iHA6 can push the 1266 TC in terms of performance? 

It drives my Diana Phi easily so I am cautiously optimistic. Just want to know what to expect when the beast arrives.


----------



## ken6217

Power Rating
Single-Ended Headphone
1100mW+1100mW(High Current，RMS,RL=32Ω) 2200mW+2200mW(Low Current，RMS,RL=32Ω)

Balanced Headphone
5000mW+5000mW(High Current，RMS,RL=32Ω) 7000mW+7000mW(Low Current，RMS,RL=32Ω)


----------



## SoundJedi (Jan 25, 2022)

ken6217 said:


> Power Rating
> Single-Ended Headphone
> 1100mW+1100mW(High Current，RMS,RL=32Ω) 2200mW+2200mW(Low Current，RMS,RL=32Ω)
> 
> ...



Yeah should be alright 😁. Will report back tomorrow (hopefully!)

Any third party cable suggestions are welcome.

Edit: and you can fit ZMF pads on this thing???


----------



## paradoxper

SoundJedi said:


> Out of 100, how far do you guys think the Cayin iHA6 can push the 1266 TC in terms of performance?
> 
> It drives my Diana Phi easily so I am cautiously optimistic. Just want to know what to expect when the beast arrives.


Sufficient power isn't going to be the issue. The AKM DAC is a little compromising. Arbitrarily, I give this rig a 77% completion rating.


----------



## jlbrach

I am at 76


----------



## Sajid Amit

75 here. Have heard the IHA6. Not a fan of its signature. The TC treble sounds etched off the Cayin amp.

But its all right if its a stop gap until you upgrade to something else…


----------



## Sajid Amit

TC-philes,

What are your favorite portable solutions for the TC, i.e., battery-powered amp-DAC combos or amp DAC stacks?


----------



## SoundJedi

paradoxper said:


> Sufficient power isn't going to be the issue. The AKM DAC is a little compromising. Arbitrarily, I give this rig a 77% completion rating.



The DAC is a Hugo2 😉.


----------



## jlbrach

Sajid Amit said:


> TC-philes,
> 
> What are your favorite portable solutions for the TC, i.e., battery-powered amp-DAC combos or amp DAC stacks?


the TC isnt a portable HP lol,thats what TOTL IEM's are for!


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> the TC isnt a portable HP lol,thats what TOTL IEM's are for!


If Sajid wants to sip a Mai Tai on the beach while wearing the TC then that's what he's gonna do. 🤣


----------



## Sajid Amit

paradoxper said:


> If Sajid wants to sip a Mai Tai on the beach while wearing the TC then that's what he's gonna do. 🤣


Lol. I just want to take my TC around the house, and have a dac amp combo or stack I can carry.  

Happy to make a bit of a compromise on openness, detail and bass impact, *but not too much, lol. *

Too much to ask I guess 😢


----------



## PhazeCrive

Honestly I just use my phone with the TC when moving about, I'm not too interested in 100% sound quality then. I set the time and place for that.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Sajid Amit said:


> TC-philes,
> 
> What are your favorite portable solutions for the TC, i.e., battery-powered amp-DAC combos or amp DAC stacks?


I’m strongly considering the Fiio M17. I haven’t heard it though. I may impulse buy it at some point this year, even though I don’t need a portable option. I guess I could use it in my bedroom 

https://www.fiio.com/m17


----------



## paradoxper

Sajid Amit said:


> Lol. I just want to take my TC around the house, and have a dac amp combo or stack I can carry.
> 
> Happy to make a bit of a compromise on openness, detail and bass impact, *but not too much, lol. *
> 
> Too much to ask I guess 😢


Hey, if you wanna prance around in your underwear with the 1266 on your head, all the more barer.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Ciggavelli said:


> I’m strongly considering the Fiio M17. I haven’t heard it though. I may impulse buy it at some point this year, even though I don’t need a portable option. I guess I could use it in my bedroom
> 
> https://www.fiio.com/m17


Yeah, looks interesting. I haven’t liked FiiO DAPs in the past. But I want to have an open mind about this one. Looks like they went all out for this one. 

The number of outputs and the output power look impressive as does their marketing spiel. 

My Kann Alpha is not half bad with the TC. 

Playing back Megadeth with far more authority and realism even when underpowered than my otherwise much-loved Audeze LCD i4 and the EE Legend EVO.






But one still wonders lol.


----------



## vonBaron

Sajid Amit said:


> TC-philes,
> 
> What are your favorite portable solutions for the TC, i.e., battery-powered amp-DAC combos or amp DAC stacks?


Definitely Astell CA1000, but today i will have Fiio M17 for loan so that can change.


----------



## PhazeCrive

I have an impressions for later but I find I need a mildly good seal to get the deep bass I like out of the 1266. My glasses break this seal too much and it doesn't get deep. But when they're off...it can get _very_ interesting.


----------



## ken6217

PhazeCrive said:


> I have an impressions for later but I find I need a mildly good seal to get the deep bass I like out of the 1266. My glasses break this seal too much and it doesn't get deep. But when they're off...it can get _very_ interesting.


That’s actually the opposite of how it works. You get less bass with a seal.


----------



## rreynolds

PhazeCrive said:


> I have an impressions for later but I find I need a mildly good seal to get the deep bass I like out of the 1266. My glasses break this seal too much and it doesn't get deep. But when they're off...it can get _very_ interesting.


As someone to wears glasses too, I always take them off before a critical listen. My eyes are closed 99% of the time, so wearing them makes minimal sense in my case.


----------



## ra990

ken6217 said:


> That’s actually the opposite of how it works. You get less bass with a seal.


In my experience, you get more bass with a looser seal, but not deeper (accurately extended). He is right that you need somewhat of a snug fit if you want to reach those lower bass ranges, albeit with less emphasis on the bass than with a looser fit. Abyss is kind of tricky with bass accuracy, it's a fun bass sound, but there's a noticeable lack of bass accuracy because of the variable fit that changes bass response so drastically.


----------



## ken6217

ra990 said:


> In my experience, you get more bass with a looser seal, but not deeper (accurately extended). He is right that you need somewhat of a snug fit if you want to reach those lower bass ranges, albeit with less emphasis on the bass than with a looser fit. Abyss is kind of tricky with bass accuracy, it's a fun bass sound, but there's a noticeable lack of bass accuracy because of the variable fit that changes bass response so drastically.


And then you have to factor in the ear pad position.


----------



## PhazeCrive (Jan 26, 2022)

It might just be my glasses and their thick side frame making the pads sit a little too far away. Somewhat of a snug fit with a tiny port at the bottom has been pretty ideal and addicting but can't achieve it with glasses. Makes going through my music challenging, and impossible to watch anime. I'll think of something though cuz this is a keeper for sure.

EDIT: I have found a work-around for glasses. Put them on loosely and the headphone will hold them instead. This minimizes the changes, if any, of how you want the headphone to sound.


----------



## PhazeCrive

My impressions so far (typed this out yesterday at work)
I finally discovered why the TC is the bass king. At first when I had my TC, I kept the pads at 12. Sounded okay, but it was very V2 like imo, overall underwhelmed I suppose--small stage too. I was really fussing over how to get the bass everyone talks about. A90 is still reallllllllly lean as an amp, but you can't tame the TC. Turns out it was producing that bass all along, it's just it was escaping out of the sides of the pads and not being directed toward my ear. Rotating the pads redirects this "bass bleed-out" back into my ear. From facing me, I take the pads 2 notches inward from 12. Haven't really experimented further, only day 3.

 (It's Cirno's boss theme, you baka baka) This track starts off pretty groovy. Lots of mid bass and treble sparkle but around 7 seconds in, the song dips its toes into the sub bass to where the TC responds viciously. After changing the fitment and hearing the TC the way it was meant to be heard, that's when I knew. It's the track that made me discover the TC. But this isn't just bass. It sounds as if there is a resonant noise coming from either the driver itself or the baffle. It colors, no, _adds_ to the bass the same way a room does. It happens at any volume, low or high, so there must be some type of resonant frequency. Given the slots on the baffle, I would assume that helps tune the amount.

It does impact in the bass but I feel like I'm being impacted with sounds you usually don't feel, like midrange and treble. I'm feeling the instant buzzes and vibrations of midrange tones and treble sizzles. Bass and treble can be altered quite a lot by the fit. Now all sounds are vibrations but it's very interesting to actually feel them for once, aside from feeling your own voice. I listened to this track for about an hour. I just kept laughing and couldn't forget how it sounded when it went low. Every time that resonance kicks in for the sub bass, it's just deep and nasty. Regular headphones don't do this, but the TC wasn't made to be another regular. I know it's nothing new for you guys but to me it's just...w0w.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

We have a very limited supply of this custom AB1266 stand by ROOM. When they're out, could be another year for more. USA sales only please.

https://abyss-headphones.com/products/headphone-stand-for-abyss-ab-1266


----------



## SoundJedi

Abyss Headphones said:


> We have a very limited supply of this custom AB1266 stand by ROOM. When they're out, could be another year for more. USA sales only please.
> 
> https://abyss-headphones.com/products/headphone-stand-for-abyss-ab-1266



Does that mean you're giving them for free to Europeans? 😜


----------



## Trance_Gott

The 1266 TC is back with me for a few days, the sleepy driver problem is solved. Yes this is a metal headphone! Like a live concert with punch to the max. Yes this is the mids hole what the heck if it makes fun without end! The LCD-5 is technically worlds better. But today I have such fun with the TC because the technology moves into the background. What good is Harman and Co. if it does not make click see Stealth which has zero punch and is so boring.


----------



## MatW

Trance_Gott said:


> The 1266 TC is back with me for a few days, the sleepy driver problem is solved. Yes this is a metal headphone! Like a live concert with punch to the max. Yes this is the mids hole what the heck if it makes fun without end! The LCD-5 is technically worlds better. But today I have such fun with the TC because the technology moves into the background. What good is Harman and Co. if it does not make click see Stealth which has zero punch and is so boring.


A slightly recessed mid range works well for metal imho. Which is partly why I'm hesitant on the LCD 5. But I'd probably EQ it anyway.


----------



## Ruddy1

Taralabs The Omega Live 
47lab 4706
Perfect match with 1266


----------



## karlheinz147

Trance_Gott said:


> The 1266 TC is back with me for a few days, the sleepy driver problem is solved. Yes this is a metal headphone! Like a live concert with punch to the max. Yes this is the mids hole what the heck if it makes fun without end! The LCD-5 is technically worlds better. But today I have such fun with the TC because the technology moves into the background. What good is Harman and Co. if it does not make click see Stealth which has zero punch and is so boring.


Do you find the LCD-5 really much better than the 1266 TC? What exactly do you prefer on them?


----------



## SoundJedi

karlheinz147 said:


> Do you find the LCD-5 really much better than the 1266 TC? What exactly do you prefer on them?



I think he's mostly talking about the mids. LCD5 mids are what they do best as a HP.


----------



## SoundJedi

If anyone has a 1266 box that they don't need anymore, please pm me!

My TC is supposed to arrive in a few days. I discovered today that the Cayin C9 can drive my Diana Phi really well, perhaps giving even better sound than the iHA6.

Has anyone tried the C9 with the TC?


----------



## simorag (Jan 29, 2022)

*Masterworks from the XX century - an Abyss Trip*

The perfect headphones do not exist (and who needs one, as we change our mind and mood everyday, and even our tastes from time to time?), but very few can do what the 1266 TC do as a multi-genre transducer.

I thought I would share some random notes from a beautiful morning of musical bliss ...





Mahler and the 1266 is an easy pairing: big sound, drama, huge dynamics swings.

Kubelik's is my favorite version of the 1st. Although it is not an audiophile recording by modern standards, this DG production through the TC shows surprisingly good instrument separation, clarity, depth of field, visceral impact. Timbre of instruments is on the cooler side, but still quite enjoyable (try the 3rd movement with the ominous cello funeral march to vulgar jewish brass-laden song turn).

Fischer-Dieskau voice in the beautiful wayfarer songs is warm not recessed at all (thank you AIC-10 / Mullard / Superconductor), on the contrary, it has great presence and naturalness.





Scott LaFaro double bass is the star here with the 1266 TC: deep, articulated, with great oomph but _clean_. Separation and soundstage layering, transparency are top notch.

Background details are easily presented, but not in an aggressive, overly distracting way (although I had to turn my head several times looking for somebody entering my listening room LOL). Audience claps between the songs are startling, with naturalness (physicality, ambiental cues).

Wonderful piano timbre, warm but lucid, combined with correct size and location within the ensemble spatial deployment.





The deep atmospheric bass pulses on Speak to Me already set the stage for this musical wonder, and the endorphine flow kicks in immediately.

Immersive 3D, enveloping atmosphere with all the genius, innovative, production devices from this legendary band rendered at best.

Huge dynamics swings, and top to bottom extension (see Time, Money) are visceral, utterly exciting.

Plenty of control on the most complex musical passages, a great balance between pure aural and analytical listening pleasure


----------



## PhazeCrive (Jan 29, 2022)

Ruddy1 said:


> Taralabs The Omega Live
> 47lab 4706
> Perfect match with 1266


Greetings, connoisseur of culture. Might I ask which CDs those are? Also, nice bottle of lotion next to your monitor


----------



## ken6217

PhazeCrive said:


> Greetings, connoisseur of culture. Might I ask which CDs those are? Also, nice bottle of lotion next to your monitor


Thats so you can take over jerking yourself off after the cable manufacturer does.


----------



## drew911d

simorag said:


> *Masterworks from the XX century - an Abyss Trip*
> 
> The perfect headphones do not exist (and who needs one, as we change our mind and mood everyday, and even our tastes from time to time?), but very few can do what the 1266 TC do as a multi-genre transducer.
> 
> ...



Dark Side of the Moon is truly spectacular.  Have you tried Pink Floyd's Aminals?  I melt into that music.

Btw, my favorite tube for my AIC-10 is a Siemens Nickel plate, sometimes called silver plate or chrome plate.  It seems each manufacturer had their levels of good to great.  I have a low end Mullard that is good, but I'd put it in the same place as my mid line telefunken.  I'd love to get a hold of a higher end Mullard, even the M10 if I could.  And I have yet to see an ECC802S.  Been trying to find a good source for that for a while now.

I've only tried a half dozen tubes so far, and with the Phi they can be very exciting and bring the mids forward, but at the cost of transparency and soundstage.  Fun to have a simple way to get a wide variety in sound in one amp/HP combo.


----------



## ufospls2

Ruddy1 said:


> Taralabs The Omega Live
> 47lab 4706
> Perfect match with 1266



Thats a very early pair of 1266, with the single straight line notch in the top screw. Uncommon to see nowadays, Neat.


----------



## Frankie D

simorag said:


> *Masterworks from the XX century - an Abyss Trip*
> 
> The perfect headphones do not exist (and who needs one, as we change our mind and mood everyday, and even our tastes from time to time?), but very few can do what the 1266 TC do as a multi-genre transducer.
> 
> ...


I enjoyed your comparison with the Sus.  Thanks for listing that in your signature.


----------



## jlbrach

simorag said:


> *Masterworks from the XX century - an Abyss Trip*
> 
> The perfect headphones do not exist (and who needs one, as we change our mind and mood everyday, and even our tastes from time to time?), but very few can do what the 1266 TC do as a multi-genre transducer.
> 
> ...


the dynamics of dark side make volume adjustment very important because too loud and the swings get  overwhelming and not enough volume and the quiet passages arent loud enough


----------



## qboogie

Ruddy1 said:


> Taralabs The Omega Live
> 47lab 4706
> Perfect match with 1266


Was gonna make a joke about all that lotion near your desktop PC but upon zooming in I realize it's still shrinkwrapped and yet to be used.


----------



## qboogie

paradoxper said:


> If Sajid wants to sip a Mai Tai on the beach while wearing the TC then that's what he's gonna do. 🤣


TC's would leave interesting tanlines


----------



## joseph69

PhazeCrive said:


> Also, nice bottle of lotion next to your monitor


LMAO!!!


----------



## Ruddy1

qboogie said:


> Was gonna make a joke about all that lotion near your desktop PC but upon zooming in I realize it's still shrinkwrapped and yet to be used.


I don't know what the lotion means, but this is the cleansing cream.


----------



## karlheinz147

Ruddy1 said:


> I don't know what the lotion means, but this is the cleansing cream.


They meant the Dove cream. Probably they have used it for other things apart from cleansing 🤣


----------



## sahmen (Jan 30, 2022)

What is the better option?  Commenting on the lotion (s), or leaving them unnoticed?


----------



## sahmen

On a different note, what's the best way to minimize the head clamping factor when "tuning" or "tune-fitting" the 1266 one's head? I seem to have gotten good in finding head-fits that sound really good.  Unfortunately, the clamp gets uncomfortably (or even unpleasantly) tight after about an hour in all these great sounding positions, and my temples begin to hurt....

Okay, I've got a big head, but still...  I am using the LCD-5 with the OG headband without any issues (I got used to it within a few days of use.) I got my 1266 last August, about three months before the LCD-5..., so I must be doing something wrong in the experimental head-tuning process...  Any ideas what to do to avoid too much head-clamping with the 1266?

Many thanks in advance.


----------



## ken6217

sahmen said:


> On a different note, what's the best way to minimize the head clamping factor when "tuning" or "tune-fitting" the 1266 one's head? I seem to have gotten good in finding head-fits that sound really good.  Unfortunately, the clamp gets uncomfortably (or even unpleasantly) tight after about an hour in all these great sounding positions, and my temples begin to hurt....
> 
> Okay, I've got a big head, but still...  I am using the LCD-5 with the OG headband without any issues (I got used to it within a few days of use.) I got my 1266 last August, about three months before the LCD-5..., so I must be doing something wrong in the experimental head-tuning process...  Any ideas what to do to avoid too much head-clamping with the 1266?
> 
> Many thanks in advance.


Do they clamp even in the most open position? Regardless, buy this assortment kit and you can fine tune the fit to your head. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07G...&pd_rd_r=a88f9273-8c8b-42bf-9f00-d33379f1152f


----------



## MatW

sahmen said:


> On a different note, what's the best way to minimize the head clamping factor when "tuning" or "tune-fitting" the 1266 one's head? I seem to have gotten good in finding head-fits that sound really good.  Unfortunately, the clamp gets uncomfortably (or even unpleasantly) tight after about an hour in all these great sounding positions, and my temples begin to hurt....
> 
> Okay, I've got a big head, but still...  I am using the LCD-5 with the OG headband without any issues (I got used to it within a few days of use.) I got my 1266 last August, about three months before the LCD-5..., so I must be doing something wrong in the experimental head-tuning process...  Any ideas what to do to avoid too much head-clamping with the 1266?
> 
> Many thanks in advance.


Since you mention the temples, it sounds like you are toeing them in? If so, I would suggest toeing out instead, with the air gap in the front rather than the back. That way you can make the pads grip the area behind your ears rather than your temples.


----------



## paradoxper (Jan 30, 2022)

sahmen said:


> On a different note, what's the best way to minimize the head clamping factor when "tuning" or "tune-fitting" the 1266 one's head? I seem to have gotten good in finding head-fits that sound really good.  Unfortunately, the clamp gets uncomfortably (or even unpleasantly) tight after about an hour in all these great sounding positions, and my temples begin to hurt....
> 
> Okay, I've got a big head, but still...  I am using the LCD-5 with the OG headband without any issues (I got used to it within a few days of use.) I got my 1266 last August, about three months before the LCD-5..., so I must be doing something wrong in the experimental head-tuning process...  Any ideas what to do to avoid too much head-clamping with the 1266?
> 
> Many thanks in advance.


With clamping, you must be toeing-in t and it provides a natural coupling. If you have the frame, say, straight and extended fully, you need to switch out the o-ring size to be more accommodating, big brain


----------



## SteveM324

I've adjusted my 1266TC fully open and in that position they lightly touch my head with very little clamp (almost no clamp) force.  Although they're my heaviest headphone, the fact that there is no clamping force on my head makes them comfortable for hours.  I have no issues with comfort with my TC.


----------



## sahmen (Jan 30, 2022)

ken6217 said:


> Do they clamp even in the most open position? Regardless, buy this assortment kit and you can fine tune the fit to your head.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07G...&pd_rd_r=a88f9273-8c8b-42bf-9f00-d33379f1152f


It's weird, but I purchased one of those kits in August but the box is still unopened.  I thought they're meant to replace the stock O-rings when the latter go bust.  So I have been waiting for the original ones to go bust before using these.  I didn't realize I had the option to roll the O-rings (without waiting for the OG rings to go bad). Thanks for getting me sorted on this one.

By the way, they do not clamp that hard in the most open positions... I usually have them towed out with the pads reversed, because that is how I have found my sweetest listening positions with the original stock O-rings in place.

Now I am going to experiment with different O-rings...  I can't believe I have had the solution to this clamp-force problem right in front of me this whole time! (Big facepalm!)


----------



## MatW

sahmen said:


> It's weird, but I purchased one of those kits in August but the box is still unopened.  I thought they're meant to replace the stock O-rings when the latter go bust.  So I have been waiting for the original ones to go bust before using these.  I didn't realize I had the option to roll the O-rings (without waiting for the OG rings to go bad). Thanks for getting me sorted on this one.
> 
> By the way, they do not clamp that hard in the most open positions... I usually have them towed out with the pads reversed, because that is how I have found my sweetest listening positions with the original stock O-rings in place.
> 
> Now I am going to experiment with different O-rings...  I can't believe I have had the solution to this clamp-force problem right in front of me this whole time!


Yes, definitely try different sizes. Made a world of difference for me.


----------



## paradoxper

MatW said:


> Since you mention the temples, it sounds like you are toeing them in? If so, I would suggest toeing out instead, with the air gap in the front rather than the back. That way you can make the pads grip the area behind your ears rather than your temples.


Nods. Unless you're Ken and hate the toe-out, everyone should utilize this wear position. It's so much more comfortable!


----------



## ufospls2

There is always bending the frame (safe to do, and shown in the abyss fit video,) which I would recommend experimenting with if struggling with fit.


----------



## ken6217 (Jan 30, 2022)

They have a HUGE assortment of sizes.

I also found that bending the frame apart and finding the right fit isn't the whole answer. As you pull apart the frame wider and wider, the band and O rings become more taut. As it becomes taut there is less give to the band and it then the ear pads sit up higher. I find that as it sits up higher you lose bass impact.

Experiment with the different size O rings and you can combine comfort as well as best sound performance.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Nods. Unless you're Ken and hate the toe-out, everyone should utilize this wear position. It's so much more comfortable!


I have always toed in.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> I have always toed in.


Grovels. LOL


----------



## nrbatista

In the last six months or so, more than 10 times I decided the day had come to part ways with the TC and move on to try something else, … until I give them a “final” listen and… they’re still with me! 

The TC’s are very addictive, and different from any other headphones I have ever tried, and it’s not “only” because of that huge bass, and soundstage they have, rather the feeling I’m hearing speakers more than headphones that set these apart imho.

Now, the switch feeling is keep growing on me as I miss a pair of high-end HP’s that can be driven by a portable player, with great sound quality. I will always remember my long gone LCD-MX4 because of that. 

This flexibility is important for me at the moment, and I can only have one pair of high end headphones, so I know the “switch” feeling will return


----------



## DJJEZ

Finally got my hands on the holo may KTE and Serene KTE and I'm extremely impressed so far listening with the 1266TC


----------



## Roasty

DJJEZ said:


> Finally got my hands on the holo may KTE and Serene KTE and I'm extremely impressed so far listening with the 1266TC



awesome setup! what power amp are you using with the Serene? or are you going straight out of the xlr?


----------



## SoundJedi (Jan 31, 2022)

The TC is here, and what a beautiful object it is. I know pictures don't pay justice but this thing looks and feels premium and very solid. The feel of it is unlike any other HP I've had before, just very different!

Now time to figure out how to operate the tank! And also to see how it compares to the Diana Phi 😁.


----------



## ken6217

SoundJedi said:


> The TC is here, and what a beautiful object it is. I know pictures don't pay justice but this thing looks and feels premium and very solid. The feel of it is unlike any other HP I've had before, just very different!
> 
> Now tome to figure out how to operate the tank! And also to see how it compares to the Diana Phi 😁.


Can you say night and day?


----------



## SoundJedi

ken6217 said:


> Can you say night and day?



I haven't compared yet. My very initial impression is not really. I'll share impressions and comps when I feel I know enough hehehe.


----------



## ken6217

SoundJedi said:


> I haven't compared yet. My very initial impression is not really. I'll share impressions and comps when I feel I know enough hehehe.


Actually I meant that as a statement and not a comment


----------



## SoundJedi

ken6217 said:


> Actually I meant that as a statement and not a comment



On very first comparison I actually hear more similarities than differences. Diana Phi is a touch warmer and slower, bass is not as big (as expected) and stage is a bit more intimate but the overall signature is quite similar. Diana's tonal balance might even be more correct? 🤔

Note I am using DMS pads which give more bass impact and more open sound than Diana stock pads.


----------



## Ciggavelli

DJJEZ said:


> Finally got my hands on the holo may KTE and Serene KTE and I'm extremely impressed so far listening with the 1266TC


Looking forward to your comparisons with mDAVE


----------



## DJJEZ (Feb 1, 2022)

Roasty said:


> awesome setup! what power amp are you using with the Serene? or are you going straight out of the xlr?


Arcam P49 (200 watts 8 ohms) for now and im also using the XLR1 rear's for headphones plus have my formula S connected to it as well. I'm done with DAC's for a while, gonna be going crazy on amps now


----------



## No KNOTsense

I've had my 1266 TC for over a week now. At first, I was underwhelmed to the say the least, but they are growing on me as I get used to the fit. Contrary to Abyss's recommendation, I much prefer the signature with the pads sealed without an air gap. The bass is still powerful but doesn't overwhelm the music to the same degree. The 1266 doesn't pair well with classical or metal music, which are my usual preferred genres, because of the recessed mids. EDM is another story and quite impressive. I wouldn't want the 1266 to be my only headphone, but when they fit the music, they are amazing.


----------



## DJJEZ

No KNOTsense said:


> I've had my 1266 TC for over a week now. At first, I was underwhelmed to the say the least, but they are growing on me as I get used to the fit. Contrary to Abyss's recommendation, I much prefer the signature with the pads sealed without an air gap. The bass is still powerful but doesn't overwhelm the music to the same degree. The 1266 doesn't pair well with classical or metal music, which are my usual preferred genres, because of the recessed mids. EDM is another story and quite impressive. I wouldn't want the 1266 to be my only headphone, but when they fit the music, they are amazing.


I absolutely love the 1266tc with metal  but that's me


----------



## paradoxper

DJJEZ said:


> I absolutely love the 1266tc with metal  but that's me


They are the only metal headphone as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## dukeskd

No KNOTsense said:


> I've had my 1266 TC for over a week now. At first, I was underwhelmed to the say the least, but they are growing on me as I get used to the fit. Contrary to Abyss's recommendation, I much prefer the signature with the pads sealed without an air gap. The bass is still powerful but doesn't overwhelm the music to the same degree. The 1266 doesn't pair well with classical or metal music, which are my usual preferred genres, because of the recessed mids. EDM is another story and quite impressive. I wouldn't want the 1266 to be my only headphone, but when they fit the music, they are amazing.


My protip that changed the way I judged the 1266 TC: try to bend the frame to have a shallow seal around your ear. The headphones were designed to "float" on your head similar to the Jecklins/AKG K1K. That is where the magic starts. 

When I first got the Abyss I actually started listening without any seal like you, but realized through alterations that it's far superior unsealed.


----------



## drew911d

Recently returned from a two week business trip to find my Abyss Phi with CC Pads, the already deteriorating pads actually fell apart on one side.

I still have the original Phi pads in perfect condition.  I could have used those, but I remember the SQ improvement when I upgraded to the CC Perforated pads.  So, I decided to wait for replacements, took only a few days.

Here's an eye opener for me.  The new pads have a remarkable increase in energetic sound.  I didn't notice over the last year, as the pads were coming apart slowly, with the foam expanding it was dampening the sound too much.  I could make any adjustment and the sound would not change noticeably.  Now, a slight change in tow is a distinct change in sound again.

The sound is again energetic and alive again.  Yes, I did say again twice, lol.  The slow deterioration of the pads tricked me.  I didn't realize what I was missing.

Just a note from a 5 year Abyss Phi user.  Any small, inconcieveable change in physical can have a profound change in SQ.  With the new pads, and I bought the new headband also, I like 9 o'clock, 3 o'clock and just a Very slight almost not touching below my ear lobes for best sound and beastial bass.  Really, the same as before, just more noticeable on the tow adjustment and such.  I really like a very slight tow in.  Gives the best sound stage to my very tired old ears.  Above my ears is tight for grip.  I'm wierd...


----------



## Womaz

No KNOTsense said:


> I've had my 1266 TC for over a week now. At first, I was underwhelmed to the say the least, but they are growing on me as I get used to the fit. Contrary to Abyss's recommendation, I much prefer the signature with the pads sealed without an air gap. The bass is still powerful but doesn't overwhelm the music to the same degree. The 1266 doesn't pair well with classical or metal music, which are my usual preferred genres, because of the recessed mids. EDM is another story and quite impressive. I wouldn't want the 1266 to be my only headphone, but when they fit the music, they are amazing.


I think they are incredible with Metal. In fact they have made me listen to a lot more metal than I used to.


----------



## vonBaron

1266 are made to play metal \m/


----------



## PhazeCrive (Feb 2, 2022)

My old headphone, the HD560s was quite bass light and hazy in the treble but had a good midrange. After a little over a year, it kinda shifted my tasted towards vocal based music. But with the TC I find myself listening to more rock and metal now. It's big, bold, and powerful. Treble is lively and the bass is as big as the soundstage while sounding a bit "roomy." The 560s wasn't really able to deliver on those fronts so that's why I never really knew what I was missing.

Also, I agree. Maybe it's my A90 amp but I am preferring these with a bit of a clamp with a small port near the bottom. The further apart these are from my head, the steeper the bass roll-off is. And I can't get them to "float atop my head" at all. Max width on the frame and multiple pad positions don't really do anything. Could be the o-rings or me not bending the frame out. But again, it rolls off hard for me.


----------



## MatW

No KNOTsense said:


> I've had my 1266 TC for over a week now. At first, I was underwhelmed to the say the least, but they are growing on me as I get used to the fit. Contrary to Abyss's recommendation, I much prefer the signature with the pads sealed without an air gap. The bass is still powerful but doesn't overwhelm the music to the same degree. The 1266 doesn't pair well with classical or metal music, which are my usual preferred genres, because of the recessed mids. EDM is another story and quite impressive. I wouldn't want the 1266 to be my only headphone, but when they fit the music, they are amazing.


Sounds like there is a lot more to be gained by experimenting with the fit. Change the O rings, toe in, toe out, bend the frame, etc. Of course it is all personal, but I'd be really surprised if you end up not liking the TC for metal.


----------



## number1sixerfan

No KNOTsense said:


> I've had my 1266 TC for over a week now. At first, I was underwhelmed to the say the least, but they are growing on me as I get used to the fit. Contrary to Abyss's recommendation, I much prefer the signature with the pads sealed without an air gap. The bass is still powerful but doesn't overwhelm the music to the same degree. The 1266 doesn't pair well with classical or metal music, which are my usual preferred genres, because of the recessed mids. EDM is another story and quite impressive. I wouldn't want the 1266 to be my only headphone, but when they fit the music, they are amazing.



I don't even listen to Metal and the TC would be the first I'd recommend for it lol 

Like someone else mentioned, bend the frame to what works for your head shape. My first impressions in this thread were not pretty lol. And then once I bent the frame it changed everything. But I would explore all of the different positions, as the optimal position really depends on the user. FYI, it's astronomically better for me with a complete seal compared to others, and I have a smallish head which I think is the culprit vs. other ppl. Moral of the story here is that the TC is extremely customizable and it takes a bit of effort to figure out what works for you. Good luck!


----------



## jlbrach

I think the TC is pretty much fantastic for everything but it particularly shines with rock and bass heavy music...I dont listen to rap or metal but I would imagine nothing could possibly be a better choice


----------



## smutnyjoe

+1 for TC being great for metal. But it really depends on the position and bending. The quality ranges from a lof of sharpness and distortion in a bad position to a fantastic audio experience in your best position. And both positions can be quite similar.

Please don't follow suggestions of other people on how to position them as I did after buying the 1266s, it varies on the head shape much more than most of us assume initially.


----------



## Ciggavelli

smutnyjoe said:


> +1 for TC being great for metal. But it really depends on the position and bending. The quality ranges from a lof of sharpness and distortion in a bad position to a fantastic audio experience in your best position. And both positions can be quite similar.
> 
> Please don't follow suggestions of other people on how to position them as I did after buying the 1266s, it varies on the head shape much more than most of us assume initially.


For real. Some days my TCs sound a little off. I have to readjust, and some of the positions are very similar. It’s also album and song dependent at times. What sounds great with one song, sounds distorted with another. Adjusting the headphones is pretty easy though. I like having the options, and I don’t see it as a downside.


----------



## smutnyjoe

Ciggavelli said:


> For real. Some days my TCs sound a little off. I have to readjust, and some of the positions are very similar. It’s also album and song dependent at times. What sounds great with one song, sounds distorted with another. Adjusting the headphones is pretty easy though. I like having the options, and I don’t see it as a downside.


I love the TCs, but to be honest, the fact that on some albums you have to readjust to avoid crappy sound and come back to the great quality is a pain in the... is a bit annoying


----------



## ken6217

smutnyjoe said:


> I love the TCs, but to be honest, the fact that on some albums you have to readjust to avoid crappy sound and come back to the great quality is a pain in the... is a bit annoying


Isnt that better than having a headphone that you can’t adjust and then a crappy song will
sound crappy and you can’t do anything about it?


----------



## mitchb

I find one fit pretty much fits all. It seems silly but sometimes they just require a little shake on the head to balance out. Spectacular headphones.


----------



## sahmen (Feb 4, 2022)

sahmen said:


> It's weird, but I purchased one of those kits in August but the box is still unopened.  I thought they're meant to replace the stock O-rings when the latter go bust.  So I have been waiting for the original ones to go bust before using these.  I didn't realize I had the option to roll the O-rings (without waiting for the OG rings to go bad). Thanks for getting me sorted on this one.
> 
> By the way, they do not clamp that hard in the most open positions... I usually have them towed out with the pads reversed, because that is how I have found my sweetest listening positions with the original stock O-rings in place.
> 
> Now I am going to experiment with different O-rings...  I can't believe I have had the solution to this clamp-force problem right in front of me this whole time! (Big facepalm!)


Hmm! Now that was quick!  Just one swap of one pair of O-rings, and Poof! No more clamp-force madness on my TC!  Hell, now I'm even understanding the concept of "floating on the head" as it applies to TC fitment. And what a difference in comfort and new head-tuning options!!!

Thanks to everyone who chimed in.


----------



## simorag (Feb 5, 2022)

Beautiful contaminations ...

Warm, folkloric-influenced jazz from Turkey. Club atmosphere fully captured by the AB-1266.




Minimalistic, meditative jazz from Japan. Some deep heartbeat-like bass notes feel just right in the gut!



Introducing US audience to some African traditions in the late 50', Olatunji percussions are infectious with the Abyss. Pure energy.



The name of the recording says it all


----------



## dukeskd

You've got great taste @simorag


----------



## fiiom11pro

simorag said:


> Beautiful contaminations ...
> 
> Warm, folkloric-influenced jazz from Turkey. Club atmosphere fully captured by the AB-1266.
> 
> ...


agree with these albums. best heard on abyss.


----------



## Drewligarchy

simorag said:


> Beautiful contaminations ...
> 
> Warm, folkloric-influenced jazz from Turkey. Club atmosphere fully captured by the AB-1266.
> 
> ...



@simorag - love your music suggestion posts. There are always gems in there. Also thank you for the tip about the free sampler you sent around the holidays - it’s great!


----------



## nrbatista (Feb 6, 2022)

I decided to let my TC's go, including its Room's stand and an extra brand new headband.

PM if you're interested.


----------



## DJJEZ

nrbatista said:


> I decided to let my TC's go, including its Room's stand and an extra brand new headband.
> 
> PM if you're interested.


----------



## Womaz (Feb 6, 2022)

Not good with Metal?? Please have another listen


----------



## qboogie

drew911d said:


> Recently returned from a two week business trip to find my Abyss Phi with CC Pads, the already deteriorating pads actually fell apart on one side.
> 
> I still have the original Phi pads in perfect condition.  I could have used those, but I remember the SQ improvement when I upgraded to the CC Perforated pads.  So, I decided to wait for replacements, took only a few days.
> 
> ...



Finding the right fit is such a pain in the ass. for me, I adjust the fit based on how I want the bass to sound.  Seam is at 9 and 3. Ear position too far anterior or posterior within the cup interior reduces the bass tone but increases that fun seismic rumble. Increasing ear-to-driver distance also does the same -- bass is more felt than heard. I only toe in the frame when the vocals in the center image are a little diffuse and they need some refocusing. 

I wish these cans had a ear mapping program like the airpods max that could suggest a configuration to achieve "weighted average optimal" sound. The future ain't that far away


----------



## DJJEZ

^^^

9 and 3 is my fav as well. Maximum bass


----------



## PhazeCrive (Feb 6, 2022)

Depends on your amp and the amp's control on the driver. Off of my A90 I don't really like the TC...at all. But off of my Galaxy A50 phone it hits and punches FAR better and it opens up the ability to alter the sound to your liking. Kinda sad when a cheap a$$ phone is harder hitting, more detailed, and more open sounding than a 1500 dollar Topping rig...

Recently saw a video by our own Sajid Amit and he says he's been using the 1266 off of a DAP and sounds amazing. Don't buy into the notion that you need top notch amplification for the TC. That's just preferred as anything is, really. If my phone can make these sing, so can a high end DAP. The TC will just scale on a home system that's all. For your local music browsing, as in not streaming, using youtube or just watching a vid, these can reach a pretty loud level off of portable. But if you are using a DAP for thay, you'll want a bit more juice. But local music is totally fine. Feel free to try. These are headphones and no matter how you put it, they _are _portable. You wouldn't be able to freely take them off and move them if they weren't.

Yes, definitely watch your amplification.


----------



## Ciggavelli

PhazeCrive said:


> Depends on your amp and the amp's control on the driver. Off of my A90 I don't really like the TC...at all. But off of my Galaxy A50 phone it hits and punches FAR better and it opens up the ability to alter the sound to your liking. Kinda sad when a cheap a$$ phone is harder hitting, more detailed, and more open sounding than a 1500 dollar Topping rig...
> 
> Recently saw a video by our own Sajid Amit and he says he's been using the 1266 off of a DAP and sounds amazing. Don't buy into the notion that you need top notch amplification for the TC. That's just preferred as anything is, really. If my phone can make these sing, so can a high end DAP. The TC will just scale on a home system that's all. For your local music browsing, as in not streaming, using youtube or just watching a vid, these can reach a pretty loud level off of portable. But if you are using a DAP for thay, you'll want a bit more juice. But local music is totally fine. Feel free to try. These are headphones and no matter how you put it, they _are _portable. You wouldn't be able to freely take them off and move them if they weren't.
> 
> Yes, definitely watch your amplification.


@Sajid Amit what dap did you use for the TCs that sounded so good?


----------



## DJJEZ

Ciggavelli said:


> @Sajid Amit what dap did you use for the TCs that sounded so good?


----------



## jlbrach

thats what IEM's are for...some of the TOTL IEM's are incredibly good and if you use a hugo 2 or Mojo 2 you are in business...the idea of using a DAP with the TC is with all due respect a bit silly...the TC aint a portable HP lol


----------



## PhazeCrive (Feb 6, 2022)

"Best bass on the go" and look at the thumbnail. 

TL;DW he said the TC off of the A&K ultima dap has not only more but better detailed bass than the Legend EVO. That is _*very*_ interesting. Great impressions man, thanks.


----------



## jlbrach

PhazeCrive said:


> Depends on your amp and the amp's control on the driver. Off of my A90 I don't really like the TC...at all. But off of my Galaxy A50 phone it hits and punches FAR better and it opens up the ability to alter the sound to your liking. Kinda sad when a cheap a$$ phone is harder hitting, more detailed, and more open sounding than a 1500 dollar Topping rig...
> 
> Recently saw a video by our own Sajid Amit and he says he's been using the 1266 off of a DAP and sounds amazing. Don't buy into the notion that you need top notch amplification for the TC. That's just preferred as anything is, really. If my phone can make these sing, so can a high end DAP. The TC will just scale on a home system that's all. For your local music browsing, as in not streaming, using youtube or just watching a vid, these can reach a pretty loud level off of portable. But if you are using a DAP for thay, you'll want a bit more juice. But local music is totally fine. Feel free to try. These are headphones and no matter how you put it, they _are _portable. You wouldn't be able to freely take them off and move them if they weren't.
> 
> Yes, definitely watch your amplification.


your phone cannot make the TC sing...it can play music through them but it is almost a shame to spend now 6k for a HP like the TC and then play it through your phone


----------



## jaboki

PhazeCrive said:


> Off of my A90 I don't really like the TC...at all. But off of my *Galaxy A50 phone it hits and punches FAR better* and it opens up the ability to alter the sound to your liking. Kinda sad when a cheap a$$ phone is harder hitting, more detailed, and more open sounding than a 1500 dollar Topping rig...


Just to double check, are you saying the Galaxy A50 runs the Abyss 1266 Phi TC better than the Topping A90?

You are referring to this right? https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/galaxy-a50/


----------



## jlbrach

the topping a90 isnt a great choice for such a great HP but a phone?.come on..sadly there seem to be a number of people who will never really know how good the TC is despite paying a ton of money for it


----------



## PhazeCrive (Feb 7, 2022)

The frequency response is better off the phone. There is deeper bass and the tuning of it allows for more details to pop through. More bass presence means you can leave gaps in the seal and the sub bass wont roll off so early like it will on the A90. That amp is a bit too lean and boring in the bass. 

Phone/DAP won't get as loud but I think as summit-grade audiophiles we know by now that louder doesn't mean better. I just tried it with the phone as a portable solution around the house, much like Sajid. It's not preferred but to say it's bad is a lie. It does work and get loud enough but it would be silly to say it's better than some Class A amps I've tried. I just think Topping is a flat out no-go with the Abyss. Might get 10% of the TC's capabilities but 10% of the TC is still better than 150% of a lot of headphones.

And I know how good these are. I'm always hyped about how they'll sound when I tweak the system or try something new at a store. Just trying different things until I can afford the endgame amps. It's about the journey.

Please take with a grain of salt. I live in the basement where the temperatures frequently hit in the 40s. It's very cold down here, and my TC is often icy to the touch. Abyss ships this headphone saying low temperatures may affect their operation. Moving to portable and taking them upstairs where it's warm and cozy could entirely be the reason I think they'e more detailed than downstairs in the cold. Things always slow down in the cold but I would never guess to this extent.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Feb 7, 2022)

Guys -

Your not going to believe this, but I just discovered The stone cold best pairing for the Abyss TC! In hunting for amps, I've been through a Violectric v281, a Formula S and Powerman, a Benchmark HPA4, an Enleum amp 23r, a Woo Wa33 Standard Edition, and a Woo Wa33 Elite Edition.

All pale in comparison to this DAC/AMP Combo:






That's right - the San Disk Clip! I can't get the volume loud enough to hear the words the vocalists are saying, and there isn't really much bass, sound stage or tactility. But, If it could get louder, I can't imagine anything competing with the bass on this thing. And the sound stage would be huge! Y'all should sell me your amps and dacs, and you should sell them to me at a steep discount, because once word gets around how good this is - they are gonna be worth nothing more than pennies on the dollar.

I don't mean to be a jerk, but no. You can't get anything close to what the Abyss TC can deliver on a phone. It's just physics. There are some high-powered DAPs if you insist on a portable experience that could sound OK but a Samsung Galaxy anything - just no. You can't EQ your way around it, and if you really want to use EQ - get a PC software player with one. I'm usually completely open to others opinions on things, and usually don't comment before I listen - but in this case - a priori - I'm going to just assume, based on your postings so far, that you haven't heard the TC on a really good setup. And, the Topping A90 must be really really bad, if it's outperformed by a Snapdragon SOC soundcard. If you really want to use a phone as a source, you are better off getting a pair of CIEMs. My 64 Audio A18s don't sound half bad on my iPhone. You are just leaving so much performance on the table; even an Focal Utopia or LCD-5 could sound OK on a phone - but the Abyss TC, just no.


----------



## Ritvik

I own the Phi Tc and don't really like it all that much. More of a Hifiman and Audeze person.

But it really does need proper amplification.
I've tried it with the Cayin N6ii (T01 amp, 4.4mm output), the Cayin N8 (best I've heard the TC from a portable source), the Venture Electronics Megatron (just for the heck of it, its built for VE's own earbuds) and none them can even get close to what this headphone is capable of on a decent full sized rig.

The SMSL SP400 sounded miles ahead of any of the above and so did the Wells Audio Milo.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Well I no longer have the Mini on hand. Would've liked to try that. Probably wouldn't bother with the phone if I did.

I don't mean to start anything, I am just posting what I hear. I simply could not enjoy the TC off of the A90. The soundstage is very in your head and the bass is kinda...not there. When you pull these apart and leave a gap in the seal, the bass completely rolls off due to the A90's linear FR. Trust me, it's no fun. 

Linearity doesn't work in headphones imo. Rooms add bass and roll off treble and presence frequencies. Works great with speakers though. On headphone where the driver is centimeters from your ear, there isn't a whole lot of space for the treble to die down and for the bass to pick up. This is why I was getting a really lean and bright experience with A90. But off my phone it's completely different. It starts sounding really big and wide with no roll off in the sub bass, but a boost in that region. I assume this is what people mean by that speaker like presentation, and really it only gets better. I mean it's a dumb little phone after all. Can't compete with a Formula S. But as it stands, I could live with this for a few months while I save up for some endgame equipment. It's definitely not bad coming from a guy who's been through dozens of headphones that all suck, including a few in the 1500 dollar range. TC is just a different beast.


----------



## ahossam

Has anyone ever tried 1266 TC with McIntosh MHA200? The amp looks gorgeous!


----------



## rreynolds

ahossam said:


> Has anyone ever tried 1266 TC with McIntosh MHA200? The amp looks gorgeous!


I have. Not a crazy amount of bass impact, but it does get the headphone loud enough to exert some dynamics. Warm sounding amp, I found it tamed the sibilance in some songs by a bit.


----------



## ahossam

rreynolds said:


> I have. Not a crazy amount of bass impact, but it does get the headphone loud enough to exert some dynamics. Warm sounding amp, I found it tamed the sibilance in some songs by a bit.


Can you say that MHA200 feels underpowered pairing with 1266 TC?


----------



## Slim1970

rreynolds said:


> I have. Not a crazy amount of bass impact, but it does get the headphone loud enough to exert some dynamics. Warm sounding amp, I found it tamed the sibilance in some songs by a bit.


What tubes are you using with your MHA200? I’m hearing excellent bass on the TC’s on my MHA200 with Mullards 6201 tubes.


----------



## jlbrach (Feb 7, 2022)

doesnt seem the mha200 would have enough power to properly drive the TC but I havent heard it so reserve opinion


----------



## qboogie

Drewligarchy said:


> Guys -
> 
> Your not going to believe this, but I just discovered The stone cold best pairing for the Abyss TC! In hunting for amps, I've been through a Violectric v281, a Formula S and Powerman, a Benchmark HPA4, an Enleum amp 23r, a Woo Wa33 Standard Edition, and a Woo Wa33 Elite Edition.
> 
> ...


No lie, at quick glance I thought you were driving the 1266 with a glucometer.


----------



## Slim1970

jlbrach said:


> doesnt seem the mha200 would have enough power to properly drive the TC but I havent heard it so reserve opinion


It's not bad, but it doesn't have the grip on the drivers that Formula S has.


----------



## gonzalo05

Slim1970 said:


> What tubes are you using with your MHA200? I’m hearing excellent bass on the TC’s on my MHA200 with Mullards 6201 tubes.


Do you have a link for these tubes? I can't find Muller 6201. Thanks


----------



## Slim1970

gonzalo05 said:


> Do you have a link for these tubes? I can't find Muller 6201. Thanks


They were on Upscale Audio's website. I guess he must sold out of them because they are no longer there.


----------



## gonzalo05

Slim1970 said:


> They were on Upscale Audio's website. I guess he must sold out of them because they are no longer ther





Slim1970 said:


> They were on Upscale Audio's website. I guess he must sold out of them because they are no longer there.


That's a bummer I really wanted to try them. I got the  Muller CV4024 also from Upscaleaudio. They sound fantastic but I wanted a spare tube set of something different.


----------



## PhazeCrive (Feb 9, 2022)

When anyone else got their 1266 TC did they ever notice stronger bass in one side? I called Joe about it and he said it's usually always a seal imbalance on the head or the drivers are still breaking in. My left speaker is really strong in the bass and it's not a fitment issue. To test this I put a tone generator on and played with frequencies from 10 to 20hz at a moderately decent volume and simply watched the drivers vibrate.

Anyway the left speaker vibrates a whole hell of a lot more in free air, and when I look at the right side it's still vibrating but it's obviously not on the same level of the left speaker. When I put it on, that increased movement from the left driver is very apparent. If the right speaker will loosen up and match the left side's level that would be very impressive but I don't know if it will.


----------



## Slim1970

gonzalo05 said:


> That's a bummer I really wanted to try them. I got the  Muller CV4024 also from Upscaleaudio. They sound fantastic but I wanted a spare tube set of something different.


I should’ve got a spare set myself. These tubes sounds fantastic


----------



## Drewligarchy

PhazeCrive said:


> When anyone else got their 1266 TC did they ever notice stronger bass in one side? I called Joe about it and he said it's usually always a seal imbalance on the head or the drivers are still breaking in. My left speaker is really strong in the bass and it's not a fitment issue. To test this I put a tone generator on and played with frequencies from 10 to 20hz at a moderately decent volume and simply watched the drivers vibrate.
> 
> Anyway the left speaker vibrates a whole hell of a lot more in free air, and when I look at the right side it's still vibrating but it's obviously not on the same level of the left speaker. When I put it on, that increased movement from the left driver is very apparent. If the right speaker will loosen up and match the left side's level that would be very impressive but I don't know if it will.



When I first got my TC I thought I had this issue as well. It turned out Joe was right, and it was a fitment issue. That said, it wasn't a major imbalance, it was what I perceived as small but noticable. If you are new to the TC, as they are coming right from the factory, it's possible you have to get used to the fit because you can largely control the balance of the bass based on it. Make sure that the tracks you are testing with have bass in the center as well.


----------



## ken6217

Slim1970 said:


> I should’ve got a spare set myself. These tubes sounds fantastic


If you don’t mind buying them online from Europe they’re available feom more than one place.


----------



## Slim1970

ken6217 said:


> If you don’t mind buying them online from Europe they’re available feom more than one place.


Thanks, do you have some suggestive links?


----------



## PhazeCrive

Drewligarchy said:


> When I first got my TC I thought I had this issue as well. It turned out Joe was right, and it was a fitment issue. That said, it wasn't a major imbalance, it was what I perceived as small but noticable. If you are new to the TC, as they are coming right from the factory, it's possible you have to get used to the fit because you can largely control the balance of the bass based on it. Make sure that the tracks you are testing with have bass in the center as well.


I just set them on my desk with the pads off and just eyeball the drivers while playing low frequencies at high volumes.

Left side visibly moves a lot more air. My eyes can see it, my hands can feel it. Right side, not so much. I can put my ear against the foamed aluminum exterior and hear how much louder the left is without even putting the headphone on. All of this, of course, is without the headphone even on me.


----------



## Drewligarchy

PhazeCrive said:


> I just set them on my desk with the pads off and just eyeball the drivers while playing low frequencies at high volumes.
> 
> Left side visibly moves a lot more air. My eyes can see it, my hands can feel it. Right side, not so much. I can put my ear against the foamed aluminum exterior and hear how much louder the left is without even putting the headphone on. All of this, of course, is without the headphone even on me.


I’m not sure then. I would tell Joe what you are seeing, I never physically looked at the drivers. That said, fit does play a significant role in centering the bass. I would play around some more and then email Joe with your findings - especially regarding the excursion of the drivers.


----------



## ra990

Anyone get to try that new convolution EQ filter that was mentioned a while back?


----------



## paradoxper

@Litlgi74 is your man.


----------



## sahmen

Wow! I can't say this enough but it is really incredible how transformative the impact of my recent O-rings swap has been... Not only has the 1266 TC formed a habit of setting up shop on my head for hours on end without causing the slightest discomfort anymore.  I am beginning to feel as if I am beginning to really **hear** it, and most of its rich performance capabilities for the first time, although I have been listening to it since I purchased it last August.

The new-found comfort does help immensely, as, before the swap, I could take only about an hour of listening at a time with the clamp-force of the previous set of O-rings.  Now, since the swap, I have been hearing much deeper and wider into the music, even at relatively low volumes, and can't stop wanting  to hear more even after several hours... I'm currently listening to some of my favorite acoustic jazz albums, and talk about addicting, not to mention relaxing!


----------



## MatW

sahmen said:


> Wow! I can't say this enough but it is really incredible how transformative the impact of my recent O-rings swap has been... Not only has the 1266 TC formed a habit of setting up shop on my head for hours on end without causing the slightest discomfort anymore.  I am beginning to feel as if I am beginning to really **hear** it, and most of its rich performance capabilities for the first time, although I have been listening to it since I purchased it last August.
> 
> The new-found comfort does help immensely, as, before the swap, I could take only about an hour of listening at a time with the clamp-force of the previous set of O-rings.  Now, since the swap, I have been hearing much deeper and wider into the music, even at relatively low volumes, and can't stop wanting  to hear more even after several hours... I'm currently listening to some of my favorite acoustic jazz albums, and talk about addicting, not to mention relaxing!


It's unusable with the stock o rings, for me. Abyss are doing themselves and their customers a disservice by stubbornly insisting that one size fits all.


----------



## Slim1970

MatW said:


> It's unusable with the stock o rings, for me. Abyss are doing themselves and their customers a disservice by stubbornly insisting that one size fits all.


Agreed, there should be an o-ring pack in every box.


----------



## vonBaron

MatW said:


> It's unusable with the stock o rings, for me. Abyss are doing themselves and their customers a disservice by stubbornly insisting that one size fits all.


With stock rings 1266 sounds unpleasant for me.


----------



## PhazeCrive (Feb 12, 2022)

Anyone know of a good 1266 dac and amp under 3k? Highest I would go is like a Burson GT on the amp side unless there's  Formula on sale. Ferrum looks interesting.

+1 about the rings. Makes pulling the headphone out for the soundstage sit very high and sometimes I don't want that.


----------



## ken6217

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07G...&pd_rd_r=b86aa099-f4d0-4661-959c-0d461e78c92c


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Any sets around which are ... not for a hobby plumber?


----------



## paradoxper

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Any sets around which are ... not for a hobby plumber?


Head-Fi needs stickies.

Follow AS568 and apply for desired size(s) required. #213 is stock.


----------



## innocentblood

For those of us with the SC cables, what are your experiences using these cables with other cans such as Focal Utopia, HD800S, LCD4, etc? I am considering getting adapters made to maximize my investment with these cables.


----------



## Ciggavelli

innocentblood said:


> For those of us with the SC cables, what are your experiences using these cables with other cans such as Focal Utopia, HD800S, LCD4, etc? I am considering getting adapters made to maximize my investment with these cables.


It's good with the Utopias & HD800s, very good with the LCD4s, not good with the Susvaras (too much smoothness)


----------



## vonBaron

Must listen album for those who like heavy music, "godlike" expirence on 1266!


----------



## vonBaron

For me, 1266 is the "golden mean" between detail, analyticality and musicality. No other headphones have given me such honest audiophile listening pleasure.


----------



## paradoxper

vonBaron said:


> Must listen album for those who like heavy music, "godlike" expirence on 1266!


Mmm. Nods. Complement with BTBAM.


----------



## Ciggavelli

If we’re sharing metal, I’ve been really into the latest Skepticism album







It won’t be for everybody, but if you like slow, depressing music, this album will be to your liking


----------



## ZappaMan

Is there anyone in the uk or Europe who can share a good strategy for buying a pair of these headphones with a large discount ?
Maybe you can reply or pm me.
Thanks.


----------



## MatW (Feb 16, 2022)

ZappaMan said:


> Is there anyone in the uk or Europe who can share a good strategy for buying a pair of these headphones with a large discount ?
> Maybe you can reply or pm me.
> Thanks.


https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/abyss-ab1266-phi-tc-extras-or-trade-w-susvara.19694/

Buying used is your best bet. These don’t get discounted much or at all in Europe, as far as I’m aware.


----------



## ZappaMan

MatW said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/abyss-ab1266-phi-tc-extras-or-trade-w-susvara.19694/
> 
> Buying used is your best bet. These don’t get discounted much or at all in Europe, as far as I’m aware.


If I bought these for example, how could you be sure that’s you’d receive the goods?


----------



## ufospls2

ZappaMan said:


> If I bought these for example, how could you be sure that’s you’d receive the goods?


Just part of the risk you take buying used. Somewhat mitigated by paying via Pay Pal regular, and checking the user has positive feedback from previous sales.


----------



## paradoxper

ZappaMan said:


> Is there anyone in the uk or Europe who can share a good strategy for buying a pair of these headphones with a large discount ?
> Maybe you can reply or pm me.
> Thanks.


@stemiki @PierPP could you perhaps help?


----------



## MatW

ZappaMan said:


> If I bought these for example, how could you be sure that’s you’d receive the goods?


The seller has 11 flawless transactions. The rating  is a good indication of reliability in my experience.


----------



## stemiki

paradoxper said:


> @stemiki could you perhaps help?


I got them from Jack Lawson in Uk who got me a great price. 

Currently I know that Julian, the distributor in Spain who also sells Aries Cerat, makes a very good price.


----------



## paradoxper

stemiki said:


> I got them from Jack Lawson in Uk who got me a great price.
> 
> Currently I know that Julian, the distributor in Spain who also sells Aries Cerat, makes a very good price.


Wonderful. Julian is great.


----------



## ZappaMan

paradoxper said:


> Wonderful. Julian is great.


Can you share a contact email for him plz, the one on his site seems to be invalid?


----------



## paradoxper (Feb 16, 2022)

ZappaMan said:


> Can you share a contact email for him plz, the one on his site seems to be invalid?


julian.hoyes@incredibledesign.co.uk
ventas@auriculares-highend.eu


----------



## ken6217

ZappaMan said:


> Can you share a contact email for him plz, the one on his site seems to be invalid?


👍 For the screen name.


----------



## Frankie D

ZappaMan said:


> Is there anyone in the uk or Europe who can share a good strategy for buying a pair of these headphones with a large discount ?
> Maybe you can reply or pm me.
> Thanks.


Same for the US please.  Maybe someone knows of a dealer who discounts them?  Tks.


----------



## paradoxper

Frankie D said:


> Same for the US please.  Maybe someone knows of a dealer who discounts them?  Tks.


I'll PM you. LOL


----------



## Frankie D

paradoxper said:


> I'll PM you. LOL


Great. Tks.


----------



## ken6217

I think Family Dollar is running a special on them this week.


----------



## Frankie D

ken6217 said:


> I think Family Dollar is running a special on them this week.


If only.  Maybe. Costco!


----------



## paradoxper

Frankie D said:


> If only.  Maybe. Costco!


Oh, you need cheap wholesale. I'll PM you.


----------



## PierPP

ZappaMan said:


> Can you share a contact email for him plz, the one on his site seems to be invalid?



I'm sending you a PM too


----------



## ZappaMan

PierPP said:


> I'm sending you a PM too


Thank you kindly


----------



## sloomingbla

Hey guys! Looking to upgrade from a th900 to the 1266 phi tc soon. 

Couple of questions

First, anyone able to compare the bass of the 1266 to the fostex th900s?

Second - I am currently only running the modest fostex hpa8 amp/dac. I've only got the budget for around a 1k$ amp/dac to go with my abyss atm - Any lower end recommendations I could have that could pump the right kind of power for these beasts?


----------



## nrbatista (Feb 18, 2022)

sloomingbla said:


> Hey guys! Looking to upgrade from a th900 to the 1266 phi tc soon.
> 
> Couple of questions
> 
> ...


Hi, my experience has been great with the Fezz Audio Omega Lupi tube amplifier (made in Poland).
Modest price, but great power.


----------



## ken6217

sloomingbla said:


> Hey guys! Looking to upgrade from a th900 to the 1266 phi tc soon.
> 
> Couple of questions
> 
> ...


Whatever you buy, try to buy used and you’ll have about twice the buying power.


----------



## mitchb

I had good results with an Auralic Taurus Mk2 amp which can be found for under $1000 US second hand. I highly recommend this amp.


----------



## Ciggavelli

sloomingbla said:


> Hey guys! Looking to upgrade from a th900 to the 1266 phi tc soon.
> 
> Couple of questions
> 
> ...


I have both.  With weak amplification, the th900mk2s have a tad more bass quantity.  With proper amplification, the TCs have more bass quantity and quality


----------



## sloomingbla

mitchb said:


> I had good results with an Auralic Taurus Mk2 amp which can be found for under $1000 US second hand. I highly recommend this amp.


Surprised I was able to find one for around 900$ on ebay - Sounds very promising considering the normal msrp.

 Does the Fezz Audio Omega Lupi tube amplifier have enough power to drive the 1266? From what I read online the power output isn't too crazy, but I would really love to get to try out a tube amp. Heard lots of good things, and I certainly tend to lean more towards a "Fun" sound as apposed to analytical.


----------



## sloomingbla

Ciggavelli said:


> I have both.  With weak amplification, the th900mk2s have a tad more bass quantity.  With proper amplification, the TCs have more bass quantity and quality


That's definitely what I like to hear. Damn.


----------



## nrbatista

sloomingbla said:


> Surprised I was able to find one for around 900$ on ebay - Sounds very promising considering the normal msrp.
> 
> Does the Fezz Audio Omega Lupi tube amplifier have enough power to drive the 1266? From what I read online the power output isn't too crazy, but I would really love to get to try out a tube amp. Heard lots of good things, and I certainly tend to lean more towards a "Fun" sound as apposed to analytical.


Yes, it does! And I’m talking from my own experience. I drove my TC with the Fezz Audio for several months.


----------



## ufospls2

sloomingbla said:


> Hey guys! Looking to upgrade from a th900 to the 1266 phi tc soon.
> 
> Couple of questions
> 
> ...


FluxLab acoustics FA10 is worth a look. A used iFi Pro iCAN also.


----------



## JLoud

sloomingbla said:


> Hey guys! Looking to upgrade from a th900 to the 1266 phi tc soon.
> 
> Couple of questions
> 
> ...


I had both for a couple of years. The Fostex feels like more bass because of being a closed back. Especially on low power amps. The TC is faster, cleaner, and reaches deeper. 
I would at least consider a Schiit Lyr 2 or Jot 2. They have good resale value and plenty of power. Although the amps mentioned above are also excellent choices. 
If you buy used you can resell and almost break even.


----------



## Stereolab42

sloomingbla said:


> Hey guys! Looking to upgrade from a th900 to the 1266 phi tc soon.
> 
> Couple of questions
> 
> ...



Any of the THX AAA 888 amps out there, which are all over Amazon (I like SMSL). You're not gonna get handcrafted quality but in general they are completely transparent and have enough power to smoke any headphone in the world.


----------



## PhazeCrive (Feb 19, 2022)

I would look at something like a Flux Lab or Burson. Class A recommened (tube too but price.) You definitely want to steer clear from those lower end THX and NFCA amps at this level of playback. Since you're coming from a Fostex, you're gonna be wondering where the bass is on the TC if you get some of those clinical amps.


----------



## Roasty (Feb 19, 2022)

My sister painted a rock with elements from my three favourite hobbies.. ant keeping, headphones, and beer. I'm pretty sure the ant is chilling out with an Abyss 1266!


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> My sister painted a rock with elements from my three favourite hobbies.. ant keeping, headphones, and beer. I'm pretty sure the ant is chilling out with an Abyss 1266!


I think the ant is chilling out on the beer.


----------



## vonBaron

1266 surprisingly easy catch synergy, if someone is looking for DAP I can recommend Astell CA1000 or Fiio M17, both play surprisingly well with 1266.


----------



## the1andonly

OG 1266's are going for great prices. I heard the OG has the most insane bass, but I prefer the highest quality period, however I am cross shopping with the LCD-4 and know whatever I get I will be happy... Still haven't made up my mind but can someone link me to impressions of the version, I know google, but I searched for hour+ and what I found wasn't very qualitative. I do think the newest revision is pricey but if it's the last word in what to buy I will probably save $$$ in the end.


----------



## mitchb

I have both the LCD4 headphones and the Abyss 1266 Phi TC’s and although the LCD4 headphones are nice the TC’s are glorious! Both headphones compliment each other nicely but the Abyss are my favourite.


----------



## the1andonly

mitchb said:


> I have both the LCD4 headphones and the Abyss 1266 Phi TC’s and although the LCD4 headphones are nice the TC’s are glorious! Both headphones compliment each other nicely but the Abyss are my favourite.


If a girl came over, like Scarlett Johansson smoking hot, she says she likes EDM, only one chance to blow her away with amazing bass. Which one you reaching for though? No pressure clearly you like the AB-1266 overall more, and I myself am very excited to experience it's soundstage which seems to be only described as "unique", for that alone even if I get the LCD-4 I would probably get the 1266 later(and why I picked the LCD-3F up first) but I guess I want to know which one's low end will immediately allow me to start laughing the most like a maniac the first time I listen to it, if that makes sense.... lol.


----------



## paradoxper (Feb 24, 2022)

the1andonly said:


> OG 1266's are going for great prices. I heard the OG has the most insane bass, but I prefer the highest quality period, however I am cross shopping with the LCD-4 and know whatever I get I will be happy... Still haven't made up my mind but can someone link me to impressions of the version, I know google, but I searched for hour+ and what I found wasn't very qualitative. I do think the newest revision is pricey but if it's the last word in what to buy I will probably save $$$ in the end.


Perhaps you'll find these helpful.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/abyss-1266-or-lcd-4-or-utopia.885339/

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj8wJGC55j2AhWekWoFHaWjDIkQFnoECAcQAQ&url=https://forum.headphones.com/t/abyss-ab-1266-phi-tc/3896/78&usg=AOvVaw2kdwSyGzVXdG72h7hE972u

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi0-tHJ6Jj2AhXJlWoFHQuRDsUQFnoECA0QAQ&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/4gweiv/abyss_vs_lcd4_reviewtestcomparison_thing/&usg=AOvVaw1c7XFTc6de5FCTKvHYxJul

Additionally, Purrin at SBAF did a great job covering the OG in the context of those times.

Preferring the highest quality sound tells us nothing about your preference to illuminate which path would fit you best.


----------



## the1andonly

@paradoxper 

I don't want to pay $4k, or even $2k and have something 2 steps below really anything else between the 3, so overall technical performance, obviously the Phi TC > OG, just wondering how much and where the LCD-4 fits in


----------



## mitchb

The LCD4 are nice. If you want bass that will kick your ass the LCDXC are nice for the price to sound quality ratio.


----------



## paradoxper

the1andonly said:


> @paradoxper
> 
> I don't want to pay $4k, or even $2k and have something 2 steps below really anything else between the 3, so overall technical performance, obviously the Phi TC > OG, just wondering how much and where the LCD-4 fits in


You have to pay $4k to be zero steps behind. You can pay $2k for STAX for comparable performance, both routes bite you in amplification upgrade-justification.

I also don't believe you understand what you want by technical performance -- an inkling. I do not know your references.

The LCD-4 actually fits in quite well. A warmer fuller sounding planar sacrificing the last % technically for a trade in, say, high-musicality. 
You do need to expound your sound preference.


----------



## the1andonly

mitchb said:


> The LCD4 are nice. If you want bass that will kick your ass the LCDXC are nice for the price to sound quality ratio.


Been meaning to pick these up, value proposition is insane, but I cannot get a clear answer if replacing the grill with the X is literally the same thing as the X, since the consensus for one reason or another it isn't quite as technically able, whether that is the cups or the driver I would like to know. I also don't really like the X, but cannot deny the insane value if it is still the case they are the exact same driver in the exact same config.


----------



## mitchb

The drivers are the same but I would flip the X’s and get the XC’s.


----------



## the1andonly

paradoxper said:


> You have to pay $4k to be zero steps behind. You can pay $2k for STAX for comparable performance, both routes bite you in amplification upgrade-justification.
> 
> I also don't believe you understand what you want by technical performance -- an inkling. I do not know your references.
> 
> ...


neutral to harman, like you said I would sacrifice the last % for smoother sound, to me that is refinement, and I understand it always comes at a cost of perf or $$$....

Focus on mid range and bass, sparkle in treble is fine but so is sub-harman levels. I like the lower mids to be a bit more pronounced, don't really care about staging of vocals as long as they aren't crazy far or LXD-X/HD600 intimate. Don't EQ so whatever hits the most bass out of the box I would probably scratch my itch enough not to care about anything else. I do like wider soundstages(why I went for 3 > 4), warmer, some veiling is ok but I prefer pretty clear sound and my worst quality in a headphone is probably overly empty/separated soundstage, so if the stage is huge and separation is intense I want to claw my eyes out, I do like good separation but clearly again there has to be some better mix where either size or separation takes a hit to be what I consider more "refined".

Curious (if this is coherent enough) if this might stand out and closer to one of the two, clearly as you said the more "musical" sound goes to the LCD-4


----------



## paradoxper

the1andonly said:


> neutral to harman, like you said I would sacrifice the last % for smoother sound, to me that is refinement, and I understand it always comes at a cost of perf or $$$....
> 
> Focus on mid range and bass, sparkle in treble is fine but so is sub-harman levels. I like the lower mids to be a bit more pronounced, don't really care about staging of vocals as long as they aren't crazy far or LXD-X/HD600 intimate. Don't EQ so whatever hits the most bass out of the box I would probably scratch my itch enough not to care about anything else. I do like wider soundstages(why I went for 3 > 4), warmer, some veiling is ok but I prefer pretty clear sound and my worst quality in a headphone is probably overly empty/separated soundstage, so if the stage is huge and separation is intense I want to claw my eyes out, I do like good separation but clearly again there has to be some better mix where either size or separation takes a hit to be what I consider more "refined".
> 
> Curious (if this is coherent enough) if this might stand out and closer to one of the two, clearly as you said the more "musical" sound goes to the LCD-4


So in context, does the HD800 serve as overtly diffuse in stage, competent in imaging > providing cohesion there-in, does the bass provide enough punch and vocal presence? I'd lean towards either a TC or Utopia.

If the preference favored bass PUNCH first then midrange perhaps the LCD-4. LCD-3 provides a harder treble range and expressed recession through the midrange as does the TC as does the LCD-4 to varying mitigation.

If you are also considering the TC, the Susvara should be in this mix and is the standout contender dependent on your HD800 answer.


----------



## the1andonly

paradoxper said:


> So in context, does the HD800 serve as overtly diffuse in stage, competent in imaging > providing cohesion there-in, does the bass provide enough punch and vocal presence? I'd lean towards either a TC or Utopia.
> 
> If the preference favored bass PUNCH first then midrange perhaps the LCD-4. LCD-3 provides a harder treble range and expressed recession through the midrange as does the TC as does the LCD-4 to varying mitigation.
> 
> *If you are also considering the TC, the Susvara should be in this mix and is the standout contender dependent on your HD800 answer.*


This is a hard one to swallow without considering EQ, with EQ I think the Susvara, just from say 200Hz and down EQ'ed would be happy enough to live with...

Actually to me the HD800 (I have a very late model, more bass) bass is enough for me, and I think the lack of intimate staging helps alleviate the empty soundstage effect I was talking about, it was super noticeable on the LCD-2F where the stage was both intimate and fairly wide, I describe it as "cardboard cutout" imaging, where rotationally by degree the images had a wide footprint, but distance wise they seemed artificially thin as a peace of paper and hearing 2 sounds coming from the same direction at the same time as they often do was jarring "hearing" that emptiness between them, that probably doesn't apply here but it's interested so I thought I would elaborate.

I think as an endgame to be truly satisfied it would have to be the LCD-4 but then again comes the itch to scratch with the 1266.... I am glad to know the bass would be enough, I assume it is somewhat more punchy than the HD800 though...

Who knows one day I might have both and try the Susvara and just be happy with my super hi-fi system living underneath a bridge...

But this is the 1266 thread so I think my next step is the 4 just because on something "better" than my 3 it needs to impress on the low end as far as forwardness that I know can also count itself performance wise near the top, but overall second to forwardness.

Thanks this has been enlightening, who knows I might just show up here with a 1266 if I just swallow my pride and EQ, after all paying more, or better said, making such large concessions for low end forwardness which essentially costs nothing if I swallow my pride is a bit silly, lot to think about.


----------



## ra990

the1andonly said:


> If a girl came over, like Scarlett Johansson smoking hot, she says she likes EDM, only one chance to blow her away with amazing bass.


Is this what you're planning for? Too funny...don't worry about the bass...just tell her the price of the headphones. Way more likely to end up in your bedroom after that.


----------



## paradoxper

the1andonly said:


> This is a hard one to swallow without considering EQ, with EQ I think the Susvara, just from say 200Hz and down EQ'ed would be happy enough to live with...
> 
> Actually to me the HD800 (I have a very late model, more bass) bass is enough for me, and I think the lack of intimate staging helps alleviate the empty soundstage effect I was talking about, it was super noticeable on the LCD-2F where the stage was both intimate and fairly wide, I describe it as "cardboard cutout" imaging, where rotationally by degree the images had a wide footprint, but distance wise they seemed artificially thin as a peace of paper and hearing 2 sounds coming from the same direction at the same time as they often do was jarring "hearing" that emptiness between them, that probably doesn't apply here but it's interested so I thought I would elaborate.
> 
> ...


This is sort of the reverse 3-blob.

I think  > refinement scheme is the basis, you have a coherent understanding of sound.

The realistic notion is you need to lose illusion of that perfected. You will scale refinements at ends of the spectrum. But you'll always miss a bit.

Now.

Don't forget:
DCA Stealth
Rognir

Closed spectrums with competent technicalities and quirks.

HE-6 scaled down 1266 -- less refined
D8k scaled up Empyrean with a very cohesive top to bottom and slight mid recession (surprise!)
Empyrean scaled up dog poop
Solitaire P scaled middle-ground Susvara with exceptional bass and staging characteristic, very full midrange slight resolution ceiling

LCD-5 the wild card -- very punched sound following mostly neutral although mid forward shout is, say, worse than refinements of recessed presence.

But I think you need major overhauls to your amplification which is a crux.


----------



## ken6217

the1andonly said:


> If a girl came over, like Scarlett Johansson smoking hot, she says she likes EDM, only one chance to blow her away with amazing bass. Which one you reaching for though? No pressure clearly you like the AB-1266 overall more, and I myself am very excited to experience it's soundstage which seems to be only described as "unique", for that alone even if I get the LCD-4 I would probably get the 1266 later(and why I picked the LCD-3F up first) but I guess I want to know which one's low end will immediately allow me to start laughing the most like a maniac the first time I listen to it, if that makes sense.... lol.


If a smoke and hot girl comes over your apartment and you’re trying to blow away with amazing bass? You must be a real hit in the bedroom. 😂


----------



## JLoud

the1andonly said:


> If a girl came over, like Scarlett Johansson smoking hot, she says she likes EDM, only one chance to blow her away with amazing bass. Which one you reaching for though? No pressure clearly you like the AB-1266 overall more, and I myself am very excited to experience it's soundstage which seems to be only described as "unique", for that alone even if I get the LCD-4 I would probably get the 1266 later(and why I picked the LCD-3F up first) but I guess I want to know which one's low end will immediately allow me to start laughing the most like a maniac the first time I listen to it, if that makes sense.... lol.


Just so you know, she is an electrostatic fan. Pop the CRBN’s on her head and away you go!


----------



## paradoxper

JLoud said:


> Just so you know, she is an electrostatic fan. Pop the CRBN’s on her head and away you go!


She does prefer hulkplay in the bedroom.


----------



## qboogie

ken6217 said:


> If a smoke and hot girl comes over your apartment and you’re trying to blow away with amazing bass? You must be a real hit in the bedroom. 😂


If any headphone has the subbass rumble to please her down there, the 1266 is it. Although fit is still an issue goddamnit


----------



## ken6217

qboogie said:


> If any headphone has the subbass rumble to please her down there, the 1266 is it. Although fit is still an issue goddamnit


Just toe it in on her.


----------



## qboogie

Hahaha O-rings


----------



## JLoud

Man this really went down hill fast. Or at least went down. 😉


----------



## PierPP

qboogie said:


> Hahaha O-rings



I  had my full collection 1 day after my 1266 arrived LOL! (Amz rocks!)
... and I already swapped them with a larger size (20 original -> 21 now)

"O-ring: the best 1266's owner friend"


----------



## PierPP

While waiting for the CFA3 …


----------



## simorag

*Minimalistic recordings, great sound*

It is a challenge for a pair of headphones (or, better, audio chains) to pass the test of going through these albums with nearly equally - outstandingly good - results, as a well matched AB-1266 can do.

This interesting jazz / classical contamination is a spectacular example of a very dynamic, rythmically intriguing recording.






A transparent, pure, authentic recording - very intense vocals and a glowing guitar. It may seem easy, it is not.





The quintessence of a minimalist recording. Immaculate timbre, atmospheric liaison between the violin and the piano. The body and smoothness of the violin is to die for.





Mostly an hommage to the AB-1266 bass skillfulness, which plays a decisive role in this album to convey the melancholic, borderline disturbing, mood.


----------



## Frankie D

I finally got to hear the 1266 at length at CanJam.  I heard it on the Woo Audio WA33 and felt it was one of the 3 best sounds at the show.  I was also provided with a Susvara for direct comparisons and I definitely preferred the 1266.  Strong bass, tight bass, excellent mids, vocals and treble on this pairing.  A bit loose on my head as it moved when I moved, but also worked well with my glasses on due to this fit.  A tactile reach out and touch it sound.  Fabulous.  Expensive electronics, but a great combo.


----------



## sloomingbla (Feb 28, 2022)

I should have a pair of 1266 tc's coming in this Thursday


----------



## Dynamo5561

Tube day for me as well


----------



## PierPP

Dynamo5561 said:


> Tube day for me as well



<3 <3 <3


----------



## the1andonly

@Dynamo5561 
What pads are those?


----------



## Dynamo5561

the1andonly said:


> @Dynamo5561
> What pads are those?


Custom pads with custom pad holders. The pads are quite thick so I can distribute the weight more towards the sides by creating clamp force and the pad holders have vents to compensate the bass.


----------



## the1andonly

Dynamo5561 said:


> Custom pads with custom pad holders. The pads are quite thick so I can distribute the weight more towards the sides by creating clamp force and the pad holders have vents to compensate the bass.


As someone who has wayyy too many pads...

I support this 💯, very cool, like the vent part so it serves the same purpose as the OEM, and don't tell anyone I said this but...

_They look better than the OEM ones too!_


----------



## Dynamo5561

the1andonly said:


> As someone who has wayyy too many pads...
> 
> I support this 💯, very cool, like the vent part so it serves the same purpose as the OEM, and don't tell anyone I said this but...
> 
> _They look better than the OEM ones too!_


I'll share at some point the 3D files so you can print by yourself and source the pads. But I need to do some small design iterations.


----------



## Halimj7

Forgive me if I missed it in the thread. Can anyone comment on the differences between 1266 phi and TC please? Thanks


----------



## tholt

Dynamo5561 said:


> Tube day for me as well


Does that Feliks put out enough juice? I'm surprised if that sounds good


----------



## Dynamo5561

tholt said:


> Does that Feliks put out enough juice? I'm surprised if that sounds good


I don't listen at loud levels, 75-80DB is enough for me. I don't even get over 12 o'clock at the Euforia.


----------



## vonBaron

I don't know why the myth is repeated over and over that 1266 need some amazing dose of power.


----------



## tholt

vonBaron said:


> I don't know why the myth is repeated over and over that 1266 need some amazing dose of power.


What myth? Look at their stats. They can easily be underpowered. Sonically thin, etc. To each their own what sounds 'good' or not


----------



## Trance_Gott (Feb 28, 2022)

vonBaron said:


> I don't know why the myth is repeated over and over that 1266 need some amazing dose of power.


Because you want go portable that's in your dreams that TC runs as good as from Niimbus lol
I can drive a lcd5 from a M8 but man nowhere near Niimbus sound level. Yes it sounds very good from M8 but to the point you hear it from Niimbus.


----------



## Trance_Gott

I can drive my Susvaras even from my M8. Yes it's produce sound but....then Niimbus wow boom bang!


----------



## ken6217

vonBaron said:


> I don't know why the myth is repeated over and over that 1266 need some amazing dose of power.


Because it’s not a myth. Connecting ot to your phone and getting sound doesn’t mean you’re driving it properly


----------



## Dynamo5561

Trance_Gott said:


> I can drive my Susvaras even from my M8. Yes it's produce sound but....then Niimbus wow boom bang!


That's one view   I just sold my US4+ as I don't see the benefit. The 1266 can be driven to 115DB with 500mw. And it will not get driven better if you put more power into it. Anyhow, as it was said, to each their own what sounds good or not.


----------



## ken6217

Dynamo5561 said:


> That's one view   I just sold my US4+ as I don't see the benefit. The 1266 can be driven to 115DB with 500mw. And it will not get driven better if you put more power into it. Anyhow, as it was said, to each their own what sounds good or not.


Don’t confuse volume with power.


----------



## vonBaron

Of course plugin 1266 to Niimbus vs plugin to lets say SP2000T is whole new world but still fun expirence, they are not HE-6 or Susvara.


----------



## ken6217

Looks like the mystery has been taken out of the amp industry. All amps that play the same volume level are equal.


----------



## sloomingbla

I mean, I get the skepticism. There’s loads of snake oil out there - and people willing to have the best, even if it’s a 1% improvement for thousands on top of it. These are just facts.

But, I can echo others here when I say there is very clearly a difference (and a large one) with better and better amps. (DACs too!). I don’t consider myself to make a big deal of tiny differences, either. But all we can give are subjective opinions for a subjective experience.


----------



## Halimj7

Halimj7 said:


> Forgive me if I missed it in the thread. Can anyone comment on the differences between 1266 phi and TC please? Thanks


Bump


----------



## dudeX

vonBaron said:


> I don't know why the myth is repeated over and over that 1266 need some amazing dose of power.


At CanJam NYC, I tried the AB1266 Phi TC on the new WA-23 and the WA-33. The WA-23 isn't powerful enough for it, and I thought to myself, this can't be a TOTL headphone, it sounds ordinary. Then I heard it on the WA-33 and then I started to hear all the technicalities like resolution, speed, powerful bass, and so on.


----------



## PhazeCrive (Feb 28, 2022)

Power =/= volume. My phone can get the 1266 over 100 decibels but it will never deliver the current it needs in a split second. You will not be hearing a hard hitting sustained 40hz bass note. A90 had 7 watts and all 7 watts were pathetic. In fact, that amp clipped and shut off on me when I wasn't even at max volume playing a song that had a pounding sub 30hz kick drum. It realized what it needed to do from the signal coming in and literally failed to do so. Definition of not enough power, and as a result sounds like it too.  So where's all those powerful 7 watts now? Yes the A90 can take the 1266 to instant hearing damage levels but the bass is always underpowered. Volume =/= power. Bass requires the most power, thats why your subwoofers in a speaker system are huge.

Same as making sound yourself. The lower the sound you make your voice, the more air it requires. Try a 60-70hz hum. You will be out of breath in 2 seconds, but that same air can be used to hum a higher pitched sound for over a minute. So kinda like think what the amp sounds like when its working with that breath of air. The high frequencies will come in easily, but the lows are always going to struggle. (Lean and bright lol) Watts literally don't matter.


----------



## leftside

dudeX said:


> At CanJam NYC, I tried the AB1266 Phi TC on the new WA-23 and the WA-33. The WA-23 isn't powerful enough for it, and I thought to myself, this can't be a TOTL headphone, it sounds ordinary. Then I heard it on the WA-33 and then I started to hear all the technicalities like resolution, speed, powerful bass, and so on.


Yep. When I had the WA22 it powered the LCD3 and LCD4 fairly well with 5998 and ECC32 tubes, but I felt there was a little something "missing" even though I was maxxing out the tubes. Purchased a few custom amps since then, and there is definitely a difference with all aspects. Then I got the Abyss, and it really shines with a better and more powerful amp. The Abyss scales to the amps you throw at it. With other headphones you might not notice differences with cheaper amps, but you certainly do with the Abyss.


----------



## F208Frank (Mar 1, 2022)

My fellow TC owners, I am a previous TC owner and made the mistake to have sold mine. I had a very "complete chain" and went all out on my previous set up. Despite wanting to get back into the TC game, I do not want to go that all out route again.

So my questions are if choosing between:

Benchmark Dac 3 + HPA 4
Formula S + Sagra Dac + Powerman Supply

Which would you personally choose and which option is generally more popular? I remembered trying the Formula combo at can jam years ago and did not like it that much but that was a VERY quick impression, though I figured I did not give it a fair proper chance since it seems to be the standard recommendation from Abyss. From my memory, I felt that the HPA4 was more transparent leaning on ALMOST to clinical, and the Formula as a bit colored compared to the HPA4.

Thanks for the opinions in advance!


----------



## DJJEZ (Mar 1, 2022)

F208Frank said:


> My fellow TC owners, I am a previous TC owner and made the mistake to have sold mine. I had a very "complete chain" and went all out on my previous set up. Despite wanting to get back into the TC game, I do not want to go that all out route again.
> 
> So my questions are if choosing between:
> 
> ...


The formula S/P is quite a bit warmer than the HPA4 and yes for me the HPA4 is clinical for sure. I think the formila S/P is a much better match for the 1266tc personally.


----------



## F208Frank (Mar 1, 2022)

DJJEZ said:


> The formula S/P is quite a bit warmer than the HPA4 and yes for me the HPA4 is clinical for sure. I think the formila S/P is a much better match for the 1266tc personally.


Appreciate the response.


----------



## F208Frank (Mar 1, 2022)

Would you guys say dac is more important or server if you had to choose assuming you had both and can only upgrade ONE.


----------



## MatW

F208Frank said:


> Appreciate the response. Do most people using the formula s/p also use the dac from eleven audio as well?


I believe usually paired with another DAC, I don’t see many folks using the Sagra in this thread.


----------



## vonBaron

Because is "meh" dac.


----------



## lamsta

Dynamo5561 said:


> Custom pads with custom pad holders. The pads are quite thick so I can distribute the weight more towards the sides by creating clamp force and the pad holders have vents to compensate the bass.



Can you share some more info on how you went about or who you used to make your custom pads and holders please?

The glue on my original pads are starting to come free from the magnetic rings.


----------



## the1andonly

if the general technical performance hierarchy is LCD-4<LCD-5/Utopia<Phi TC/Susvara
(feel free to correct this)
Where do the Normal Phi/CC and OG fit in?


----------



## vonBaron

Amazing album with 1266!


----------



## DJJEZ

the1andonly said:


> if the general technical performance hierarchy is LCD-4<LCD-5/Utopia<Phi TC/Susvara
> (feel free to correct this)
> Where do the Normal Phi/CC and OG fit in?


Phi TC is above susvara


----------



## jlbrach

MatW said:


> I believe usually paired with another DAC, I don’t see many folks using the Sagra in this thread.


I use the chord dave personally but I imagine the sagra is a fine DAC and wouldnt hold anything back


----------



## vonBaron

Sadly it's very medicore.


----------



## Frankie D

F208Frank said:


> My fellow TC owners, I am a previous TC owner and made the mistake to have sold mine. I had a very "complete chain" and went all out on my previous set up. Despite wanting to get back into the TC game, I do not want to go that all out route again.
> 
> So my questions are if choosing between:
> 
> ...


I have another suggestion, though a bit more cost.  The Formula S plus Powerman is $6598 list.  The Woo Audio WA33 is $8500 list. At CanJam I felt the 1266 connected to the WA33 was one of my top 3 sounds at the show, and maybe number 1 IMHO.  Why not go for the WA33 for the extra $2k.  Abyss themselves also love it.  Just a thought.


----------



## jlbrach

tubes vs SS..cant go wrong with either


----------



## paradoxper (Mar 1, 2022)

jlbrach said:


> tubes vs SS..cant go wrong with either


Ah, so get both. All-in, Frank baby!


----------



## Roasty

F208Frank said:


> My fellow TC owners, I am a previous TC owner and made the mistake to have sold mine. I had a very "complete chain" and went all out on my previous set up. Despite wanting to get back into the TC game, I do not want to go that all out route again.
> 
> So my questions are if choosing between:
> 
> ...



there are some nice recommendations in the previous posts. I'll add on mine, fwiw. 

Holo spring 3
Primaluna integrated amp
Zynsonix speaker box with sufficient attenuation (when activated) to use with other sensitive cans


----------



## ken6217

Frankie D said:


> I have another suggestion, though a bit more cost.  The Formula S plus Powerman is $6598 list.  The Woo Audio WA33 is $8500 list. At CanJam I felt the 1266 connected to the WA33 was one of my top 3 sounds at the show, and maybe number 1 IMHO.  Why not go for the WA33 for the extra $2k.  Abyss themselves also love it.  Just a thought.


And how much for the tube set in the amp? You can easily jack that up another three grand.


----------



## ken6217

Roasty said:


> there are some nice recommendations in the previous posts. I'll add on mine, fwiw.
> 
> Holo spring 3
> Primaluna integrated amp
> Zynsonix speaker box with sufficient attenuation (when activated) to use with other sensitive cans


Substitute the Solo Spring for the Sonnet Morpheus.


----------



## Halimj7

the1andonly said:


> if the general technical performance hierarchy is LCD-4<LCD-5/Utopia<Phi TC/Susvara
> (feel free to correct this)
> Where do the Normal Phi/CC and OG fit in?


I’m interested in this too


----------



## F208Frank

Frankie D said:


> I have another suggestion, though a bit more cost.  The Formula S plus Powerman is $6598 list.  The Woo Audio WA33 is $8500 list. At CanJam I felt the 1266 connected to the WA33 was one of my top 3 sounds at the show, and maybe number 1 IMHO.  Why not go for the WA33 for the extra $2k.  Abyss themselves also love it.  Just a thought.


Good suggestion.

Thing is I am trying to be more thrifty second time around.

I actually used to own the AIC10 and the WA33 Elite and sold it. 

Since business has been bad, I may need to hold off altogether (including the abyss) and just deal with just IEMs for now. 

*makes adult crying noises*


----------



## DJJEZ (Mar 1, 2022)

F208Frank said:


> Good suggestion.
> 
> Thing is I am trying to be more thrifty second time around.
> 
> ...


very nice. both amazing amps. that sucks you had to sell them.


----------



## Frankie D

paradoxper said:


> Ah, so get both. All-in, Frank baby!


Saving up my coins!


----------



## Frankie D

F208Frank said:


> Good suggestion.
> 
> Thing is I am trying to be more thrifty second time around.
> 
> ...


An IEM thought.  You can try to pick up a used Traillii which will sound terrific with any source and rival many HP’s.  It is not inexpensive, but much less than the abyss plus amp, etc.


----------



## Frankie D

ken6217 said:


> And how much for the tube set in the amp? You can easily jack that up another three grand.


Actually there should be 0 extra cost.  It comes with the tubes and I asked about their longevity.  You should get 5+ years out of them if not more, and the WA33 is self biasing, so all you do is turn it on and connect your source.  Maybe someone who owns one can tell us for sure. Tks.


----------



## yagislav

For TT2 / TToby to 1266 TC users, do you use the TT2 in Lo or Hi? I read previously that people heard no hum from the TToby when no music is playing but I am experiencing a bit of hum (regardless of volume, even when TT2 is on mute) but definitely not noticeable when music is playing though.


----------



## ken6217 (Mar 2, 2022)

Frankie D said:


> Actually there should be 0 extra cost.  It comes with the tubes and I asked about their longevity.  You should get 5+ years out of them if not more, and the WA33 is self biasing, so all you do is turn it on and connect your source.  Maybe someone who owns one can tell us for sure. Tks.


That’s not what I meant. I know it comes with the tubes, but did it have stock tubes at the show? I wasn’t there, but I assume they would put their best foot forward and not.


----------



## ken6217

Frankie D said:


> An IEM thought.  You can try to pick up a used Traillii which will sound terrific with any source and rival many HP’s.  It is not inexpensive, but much less than the abyss plus amp, etc.


I think your poor fortune will be followed up with more poor fortune spending that kind of crazy money on an IEM. Even if it was capable of writing the Lord‘s prayer on the head of a pin, it’s a universal. You can’t even get a custom. Getting a proper seal to get bass is a crapshoot. 

For that same money you can pretty much get an excellent used amp and used headphone of something that’s noteworthy.


----------



## Frankie D

ken6217 said:


> I think your poor fortune will be followed up with more poor fortune spending that kind of crazy money on an IEM. Even if it was capable of writing the Lord‘s prayer on the head of a pin, it’s a universal. You can’t even get a custom. Getting a proper seal to get bass is a crapshoot.
> 
> For that same money you can pretty much get an excellent used amp and used headphone of something that’s noteworthy.


There are many ways to skin a cat. However if you want the best sound while traveling or when mobile, there is no substitute.  All of our ears are different, but using AzlaSednaLight Short tips ( available on amazon )makes the Traillii more comfortable for me than my customs, and these tips ( if they fit you ) allow for excellent bass on it.  Again, this is just for something while you save up for the big stuff.


----------



## Frankie D

ken6217 said:


> That’s not what I meant. I know it comes with the tubes, but did it have stock tubes at the show? I wasn’t there, but I assume they would put their best foot forward and not.


I did not ask if the tubes were other than stock. I just sent Jack an email to ask him.  Good idea to find that out.  Tks.


----------



## ken6217

Frankie D said:


> There are many ways to skin a cat. However if you want the best sound while traveling or when mobile, there is no substitute.  All of our ears are different, but using AzlaSednaLight Short tips ( available on amazon )makes the Traillii more comfortable for me than my customs, and these tips ( if they fit you ) allow for excellent bass on it.  Again, this is just for something while you save up for the big stuff.


Traveling to another story. I didn’t know we were discussing that. I have a 64 Audio A12 custom which is phenomenal that I used traveling by train back and forth to Manhattan five days a week.


----------



## qboogie

F208Frank said:


> My fellow TC owners, I am a previous TC owner and made the mistake to have sold mine. I had a very "complete chain" and went all out on my previous set up. Despite wanting to get back into the TC game, I do not want to go that all out route again.
> 
> So my questions are if choosing between:
> 
> ...



I would say go with the Formula S / Powerman. I wrote a little about my experience with this particular combo. What makes it special is not just the amp's power and drive (even though the specs are actually quite modest) that makes it a good fit, but the specific way the amp is "tuned" for the 1266 signature. Check out the post, but as usual YMMV.

One thing I'd like to mention is that, if going with the Formula S, some care should be used with selecting a good power cable. I hate to admit it but I was shocked to realized that they too affect the sound. I got the best results plugging the amp directly into the wall, even though my apartment building is pre-WW2.  Previously I was plugging the cable directly into an iFi Powerstation power conditioner, which resulted in a slightly flatter soundstage but less digital glare. I'm gonna keep testing this notion and report back later. 

Welcome back to the 1266 club

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-16629482


----------



## jlbrach

ken6217 said:


> I think your poor fortune will be followed up with more poor fortune spending that kind of crazy money on an IEM. Even if it was capable of writing the Lord‘s prayer on the head of a pin, it’s a universal. You can’t even get a custom. Getting a proper seal to get bass is a crapshoot.
> 
> For that same money you can pretty much get an excellent used amp and used headphone of something that’s noteworthy.


FWIIW the Traillli is spectacular...as one who owns the TC the Traiilli has become my go to for portable use...got a good deal on a mint used pair and using it with the hugo 2 I am shocked how good it is


----------



## Slim1970

jlbrach said:


> FWIIW the Traillli is spectacular...as one who owns the TC the Traiilli has become my go to for portable use...got a good deal on a mint used pair and using it with the hugo 2 I am shocked how good it is


Did you like them more than the EE Odin’s?


----------



## jlbrach (Mar 2, 2022)

yes I did...they are really good...I know it is heresy but I put them in the class of the susvara in the form of an IEM....the retail price is prohibitive but like all this gear if you find a well cared for used pair at a big discount it is IMHO well worth it


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> yes I did...they are really good...I know it is heresy but I put them in the class of the susvara in the form of an IEM....the retail price is prohibitive but like all this gear if you find a well cared for used pair at a big discount it is IMHO well worth it


As an aside, I don’t get the love for the Susvara. I borrowed it twice wanting to like it and buy it, when I sold my TC. I still don’t get it. When I did get that was another TC. To me you couldn’t even speak about these two  headphones in the same sentence.


----------



## Frankie D

ken6217 said:


> That’s not what I meant. I know it comes with the tubes, but did it have stock tubes at the show? I wasn’t there, but I assume they would put their best foot forward and not.


Jack Wu got back to me. The tubes and the cable were all stock.  So the stock WA33 was sounding excellent at the show.  I would say better than the Hifiman $15,000 EF1000 when using Susvara’s though I was not trying to do that comparison. I just felt like the Sus connected to the EF1000 more ordinary than phenomenal.


----------



## jlbrach

ken6217 said:


> As an aside, I don’t get the love for the Susvara. I borrowed it twice wanting to like it and buy it, when I sold my TC. I still don’t get it. When I did get that was another TC. To me you couldn’t even speak about these two  headphones in the same sentence.


as one who has both if your source and amp are proper the susvara is fantastic...


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> as one who has both if your source and amp are proper the susvara is fantastic...


That makes no sense. It would make sense if one likes the sound the Susvara produces. 

Btw, I tried the Susvara with CFA3, Simaudio 600i, Bakoon 13R. That pretty much covers the gambit.


----------



## Polygonhell

ken6217 said:


> As an aside, I don’t get the love for the Susvara. I borrowed it twice wanting to like it and buy it, when I sold my TC. I still don’t get it. When I did get that was another TC. To me you couldn’t even speak about these two headphones in the same sentence.


I own both, and on my chain, I personally would pick the the Susvara 9 times out of 10 over the 1266. The 1266 is probably my 3rd favorite headphone FWIW.
But a lot depends on what you are listening for and what you value in the way they present.
The Susvara is never going to rumble and Slam like the 1266, and if that's what your looking for there really isn't anything competitve.
I prefer the way the Susvara Stages, and I find it's presentation generally more "natural" across the spectrum, timbre in particular I greatly prefer the Susvara, and the Susvara's super power is it's low volume dynamics, it's almost EStat like in this regard.
When I spend a week or two exclusively listening to the 1266 I find I love it for a day or two, but after that it's appeal tends to wear off on me.
But it's horses for courses, I can certainly see people preferring the 1266.


----------



## number1sixerfan

I think it's a clear matter of preferences. It's funny to see (some) Susvara and TC fans say this lol, as both are extremely excellent. But it definitely just points out how important preferences are.


----------



## ken6217

I listen to pretty much exclusively rock music. If I liked crappy music, I’d probably find the Susvara a good pairing.


----------



## number1sixerfan

ken6217 said:


> I listen to pretty much exclusively rock music. If I liked crappy music, I’d probably find the Susvara a good pairing.



Lol! But another good point, genre matters a lot as well. For Rock, Metal or Hip Hop, it doesn't get much better than the TC.


----------



## ken6217

number1sixerfan said:


> Lol! But another good point, genre matters a lot as well. For Rock, Metal or Hip Hop, it doesn't get much better than the TC.


For sure. I’m glad I don’t listen to other genres as well or I would have too many headphones.


----------



## jlbrach

ken6217 said:


> That makes no sense. It would make sense if one likes the sound the Susvara produces.
> 
> Btw, I tried the Susvara with CFA3, Simaudio 600i, Bakoon 13R. That pretty much covers the gambit.


ok then, you dont care for the susvara...thats your right...enjoy the TC


----------



## jlbrach (Mar 2, 2022)

number1sixerfan said:


> Lol! But another good point, genre matters a lot as well. For Rock, Metal or Hip Hop, it doesn't get much better than the TC.


the susvara does well with pretty much any kind of music as does the TC...it is a completely different presentation so it makes sense people will like one or the other better it also makes them quite complimentary if one can swing both..not sure the point of people bad mouthing one or the other of these 2 wonderful HP's


----------



## Ciggavelli

I this the Susvara does really well with metal, especially cold sounding metal (like black metal)


----------



## jlbrach

you are the expert on metal...I didnt know there were so many different kinds...black metal etc


----------



## ken6217

If you don’t want to get into heavy metal to start, try tin.  It a little lighter sound.


----------



## number1sixerfan

jlbrach said:


> the susvara does well with pretty much any kind of music as does the TC...it is a completely different presentation so it makes sense people will like one or the other better it also makes them quite complimentary if one can swing both..not sure the point of people bad mouthing one or the other of these 2 wonderful HP's



Susvara definitely is a great all rounder, but there are a few genres that the TC is still better with, even if just by a bit. Susvara is also better (imo) for some genres due to its more prominent midrange. I do also agree though about not trashing either, or any high performing headphone that I simply don't prefer.


----------



## jlbrach

I agree both do things better than the other..both are fantastic and both are as good as it gets...


----------



## JLoud

ken6217 said:


> If you don’t want to get into heavy metal to start, try tin.  It a little lighter sound.


What about LED Zepplin? Is that heavier than say tin?


----------



## ken6217

JLoud said:


> What about LED Zepplin? Is that heavier than say tin?


Of course. Tin would just collapse upon impact.


----------



## Axel

ken6217 said:


> That makes no sense. It would make sense if one likes the sound the Susvara produces.
> 
> Btw, I tried the Susvara with CFA3, Simaudio 600i, Bakoon 13R. That pretty much covers the gambit.


I've been playing around with some high-end amplification for the Susvara. And it's a total chameleon.
I simply can't believe it's the same headphone.
I haven't heard the TC (yet), but the Susvara may sound EXTREMELY different with various amplifications.
And, from what I read, most use them underpowered and are missing out on their capabilities.


----------



## skyhighct

I would love to hear impressions specifically with the Woo WA22.


----------



## alford78 (Mar 3, 2022)

Hello all.

My first post and want to say thank you all as I researched for about 6 weeks before making my first headphone purchase. I of course had to jump straight into the Abyss 1266 TC. I know this may be the opposite way to start the journey but wanted to buy once-cry once with most of the source and higher end gear.

I am ordering a CFA3 amp through Dukei (still hashing out the particulars) but having a hard time with a DAC.

I will be the first to admit I’m a noob with both Headphones and 2 Channel high end so please take it easy on me.

I have been into the upper high end Dedicated Home Theater game for about 25-30 years and am building my endgame setup there now as well. It’s just a room overhaul so not upgrading speaker brands or the like. I have been running the Trinnov Altitude32 DACs to my totally active 4 way LCRs driven by Quested high voltage amplifiers.

Some people originally didn’t like the DACs used by the Altitude32 but being that I literally had who most would consider to be one of the top tuners in the world calibrate mine I couldn’t imagine a better sound. It’s perfect on my 13’ wide screen. Pinpoint accuracy across every square inch and beyond my side walls.

I also have a living room 2 Channel setup/Phantom Center for TV watching that uses Alcons Audio’s proprietary Sentinel 10 DACs feeding their CRMS Mkii speakers. This is just as accurate as the more involved setup of the HT room when it comes to imaging and maybe even as dynamic with their proprietary 16:1 power ratio to the high power ribbon technology. The bass is nowhere near the same as my HT room for good reason but is still enjoyable for what it is.

So as you can see my top of the line DACs being used are far far different than what I’m researching for Headphones/Desktop setup. The Options also seem endless and I’m too ignorant on the tech to know how to immediately cut down a short list.

I have always heard good things about Mola Mola, Holo, Linn, Lumin, and R2R configuations. That’s about all I’ve gathered is their names though. I don’t know much else.

I’ve also never once heard a tube in any sort of way that I am aware of being that I started my journey with AVRs and rack mountable amplifiers. My inner voice keeps pushing me towards a Tube PreAmp mated to DAC and CFA3 for what many would consider a nice blend. Again this is just speculation on my part from researching as I’ve never heard a tube.

I’ve also never “heard” a difference in a DAC because my two top of the line DACs are dealing with room calibrations to affect the sounds way more so than the DAC signature itself.

I do want to use ROON and MQA just because it’s new and rolling out more and more albums. I don’t see much mention of actual source material that often on this particular thread so don’t know the general feelings toward MQA within this group of people. Again I’m a total noob and just like the option since am paying for the feature within my subscription.

So I know I’ll need a balanced DAC being that the CFA3 is built around this feature and most of my other gear’s cabling already supports this format so all the better when cables need to be changed for that last little bit of refining the signature.

I listen to everything from very new HipHop/Rap to older Rock. Some Heavy Metal, very little Jazz, no classical as of yet, alternative in many different genres, and country in many different genres. I also play video games at a dedicated desktop setup which I hope to be able to use the TCs but if not then maybe will have to invest in a more conventional over the ear pair which can be ran directly from the DAC if don’t play well with the CFA3.

Sorry for the long post but wanted to give as much information as possible. I am a bass head and have six 24” drivers, ten 21” drivers, twelve 18” pro drivers, and six 10” pro drivers just on my front stage alone in the HT room. So that is very important whether the DAC has anything to do with that I personally have no idea. Still learning lol.

Bests, and thank you all again for your time and efforts of making this place what it is.

-Alex

Edit-

Also what am I looking for in specs to make sure the pre or dac is feeding the CFA3 the best signal possible? I will also cross post basically the same questions over on the CFA3 thread of course but feel since I am trying match synergies with Abyss 1266 TC/CFA3 first and foremost will need your all opinions lol.


----------



## sloomingbla (Mar 3, 2022)

Got my 1266 TC's in earlier today! Initial impressions being driven by my Fostex Hpa8 DAC -> Auralic Taurus MK2. (I know! I'm planning on upgrading, alright? Haha)

Well, after lots and lots of work getting the fit right and messing with amp/dac configurations, the TC's blow the th900's out of the park. Just beautiful. First little bit scared me bc of the fit - the TC's sounded harsh, shouty, and sibilant. The fit felt like it was kinda crushing my head.

After plenty of fiddling - and I'm STILL fiddling, but it's definitely 99% there - Sounds nearly neutral, with a slight brightness, and LOTS of bass. Ended up having to place a rag under the headband to get my ears centered in the cups, as I bought these used, and the headband was basically touching the top of the phones. Have replacement O-rings coming in today though, haha. Can say it is incredibly important to have your ears centered... the sound becomes much more consistent and enjoyable that way.

The texture, slam, and the rumble on the sub bass is just... so freaking good. The details are insane, staging/imaging is insane, everything's insane, lol. Very magical sound.

Bass is definitely better than the th900's in all respects. Maybe a tad bit less quantity, but only on certain frequencies, and even with less quantity the quality is soooooooo freaking good. Better than the th900's in every way except for comfort and overall tonality - the th900's are more of my taste in terms of warmth... but that's what a tube amp would fix I'm sure. (And these aren't COLD. They are like 65 F. Just enough to want a little jacket. My th900's are like sitting in front of a fireplace, sipping hot coco c: )


----------



## sloomingbla

Which, if anyone is ever looking to test your sub bass capabilities...



^This song has the most bass out of anything I've ever heard, and has been my bass "benchmark" song for the past 6 years. What's nice is it's a good test of both bass AND sibilance... lots of high freq sounds in here. Sounds absolutely incredible on the tcs.


----------



## ken6217

alford78 said:


> Hello all.
> 
> My first post and want to say thank you all as I researched for about 6 weeks before making my first headphone purchase. I of course had to jump straight into the Abyss 1266 TC. I know this may be the opposite way to start the journey but wanted to buy once-cry once with most of the source and higher end gear.
> 
> ...


Nice setup. My brother also has the Trinnov 32. Just upgraded his projector to the Sony VPL-GTZ380 4K SXRD laser projector. Screen is 205” I believe. The picture is gorgeous, but I would have used that same money for a Porsche 

You will like the CFA3. Dukei is great to work with. Excellent person and excellent builder. He was working on a hybrid with tube input, but I didn’t know if he has perfected it yet.


----------



## Volote

alford78 said:


> Hello all.
> 
> My first post and want to say thank you all as I researched for about 6 weeks before making my first headphone purchase. I of course had to jump straight into the Abyss 1266 TC. I know this may be the opposite way to start the journey but wanted to buy once-cry once with most of the source and higher end gear.
> 
> ...


I am highly considering the 1266 as my next purchase. I started my journey late December and basically jumped into TT2/LCD-5 territory with little hesitation 
Like you, I’m trying to do this jump with minimal back pedaling!


----------



## Halimj7

Volote said:


> I am highly considering the 1266 as my next purchase. I started my journey late December and basically jumped into TT2/LCD-5 territory with little hesitation
> Like you, I’m trying to do this jump with minimal back pedaling!


I really need to know how the Phi compares to the TC and if the Sony DMP-Z1 will drive it adequately.


----------



## leftside

sloomingbla said:


> Got my 1266 TC's in earlier today! Initial impressions being driven by my Fostex Hpa8 DAC -> Auralic Taurus MK2. (I know! I'm planning on upgrading, alright? Haha)
> 
> Well, after lots and lots of work getting the fit right and messing with amp/dac configurations, the TC's blow the th900's out of the park. Just beautiful. First little bit scared me bc of the fit - the TC's sounded harsh, shouty, and sibilant. The fit felt like it was kinda crushing my head.
> 
> ...


What O-rings did you get?


----------



## jlbrach

alford78 said:


> Hello all.
> 
> My first post and want to say thank you all as I researched for about 6 weeks before making my first headphone purchase. I of course had to jump straight into the Abyss 1266 TC. I know this may be the opposite way to start the journey but wanted to buy once-cry once with most of the source and higher end gear.
> 
> ...


you are diving right into the deep end....good choice,you would have gotten there over time and a lot of money lol


----------



## sloomingbla

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GSKKHQM?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

It was posted somewhere earlier in the thread. I actually ended up going a couple of sizes lower than stock, as I apparently have an abnormally short head


----------



## sloomingbla (Mar 4, 2022)

Also - not to discredit what I said, but out of the taurus mk2, these can be pretty fatiguing to listen to. I've actually preferred the hpa8 because of this, even though the bass quality and detail take a hit.

Might be jumping the gun, but I'm thinking I might sell and buy something a bit higher end, that's more on the dark/warm side. 

With a budget of around $4k, what would you guys recommend? I've really wanted to try a tube amp as warmth is a big deal to me, but I've seen a lot of mixed reviews with tubes around this range, and nearly always hear about how if I buy cheaper I should also buy better tubes.


----------



## vonBaron

Used Niimbus US4+ or US5.


----------



## ken6217

I’ve seen one or two Niimbus US4+ for sale in your price range.


----------



## sloomingbla

Hmm. The nimbus does seem like a very solid option for the price.. although I’m really hoping to get a warm sound, and from reviews that sounds pretty neutral. Then again, my current amp is a bit on the bright side so I suppose the difference would be there.

How does the Cayin ha-300 fare? 

Thanks again! Sorry for the walls of text. Abyss is makin me go crazy 😝


----------



## sloomingbla

Also, bonus points for mentioning warmer dacs around the same price range, although it will be a couple of months


----------



## ken6217

sloomingbla said:


> Hmm. The nimbus does seem like a very solid option for the price.. although I’m really hoping to get a warm sound, and from reviews that sounds pretty neutral. Then again, my current amp is a bit on the bright side so I suppose the difference would be there.
> 
> How does the Cayin ha-300 fare?
> 
> Thanks again! Sorry for the walls of text. Abyss is makin me go crazy 😝


Get yourself a used Violectric V281. Similar house sound to the Niimbus but warmer, More bass as well. You should be able to pick up a used one for under $1500. It’s worth it as if you don’t like it you could sell it for pretty much what you paid for it.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

The TC works surprisingly well with the M17. The sound is holographic, bass is with authority but well-defined. So nice to listen away from my desk.


----------



## PhazeCrive

And they laughed at me for running TC portable. I'm telling you TC off of portable still sounds leagues better than really most headphones even at their best. The TC will just scale even higher on a system. I would've gotten the M17 but I feared the THX and ESS design it went for. Maybe if I didn't buy the Burson GT...


----------



## ken6217

PhazeCrive said:


> And they laughed at me for running TC portable. I'm telling you TC off of portable still sounds leagues better than really most headphones even at their best. The TC will just scale even higher on a system. I would've gotten the M17 but I feared the THX and ESS design it went for. Maybe if I didn't buy the Burson GT...


Don’t worry. We’re laughing at him too.


----------



## ken6217

With that said, I’ve been using with great satisfaction the new Barbie got a new stereo. Sounds great and I love the pink design.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ken6217 said:


> Don’t worry. We’re laughing at him too.


Oi!!

You might be surprised how good it sounds. But I know, it is only good when it costs 10k or more and weighs as much as a car.


----------



## ken6217

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Oi!!
> 
> You might be surprised how good it sounds. But I know, it is only good when it costs 10k or more and weighs as much as a car.


Not really. There are plenty good things out there for six or $7000 and only weight as much as my mother-in-law.


----------



## jlbrach

sloomingbla said:


> Also - not to discredit what I said, but out of the taurus mk2, these can be pretty fatiguing to listen to. I've actually preferred the hpa8 because of this, even though the bass quality and detail take a hit.
> 
> Might be jumping the gun, but I'm thinking I might sell and buy something a bit higher end, that's more on the dark/warm side.
> 
> With a budget of around $4k, what would you guys recommend? I've really wanted to try a tube amp as warmth is a big deal to me, but I've seen a lot of mixed reviews with tubes around this range, and nearly always hear about how if I buy cheaper I should also buy better tubes.


if you are using the abyss 1266 TC the answer is easy...the formula s/powerman combo which not only was made to work with it but is terrific....to do better you need to spend a fortune...the only option I cannot speak to is the CFA3 which is intriguing and raved about here but tough to access


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Not really. There are plenty good things out there for six or $7000 and only weight as much as my mother-in-law.


----------



## sloomingbla

It's like, on the 1266 I keep getting into this headspace of thinking about the sound signature and adjusting the position, thinking it's too bright or too bass light or the vocals are shouty. And these are valid concerns, sure,

But then I start just paying attention to the music.. and suddenly I just get this crazy feeling. It's like the music is dancing, weaving, taking on a personality of it's own. As if instead of sound waves floating around my head it's physical objects. As if I can hear the environment that the performance is happening in. I'll just sit in awe, having an eargasm. 

I've spent hours upon hours the past few days, switching back and forth between these mindsets.

Not sure if it's that what I think I want isn't actually what I want, or if it's that if I focus on the negatives I forget the extreme positives, but either way I've never obsessed about a headphone like this before; I've been having a blast with these things.

You're probably right about the formula s. If I'm GONNA spend 4k$ I might as well spend a little more. Excited to see how I can make these siiiing


----------



## sloomingbla

Has anyone here tried the lampizator dac with these, by the way? Lots and lots of hype for those things


----------



## leftside

sloomingbla said:


> Has anyone here tried the lampizator dac with these, by the way? Lots and lots of hype for those things


Yep. I have the original GA in one room and the newer GA TRP in another. Anything above those models are out of my price range.


----------



## alford78

Will the Sonnet Morpheus Mkii pair well with the CFA3 and TC?

I have no idea about DACs in general and what to look for that will give an idea if they will perform below or above their price point. Never once heard a difference in an average to above average DAC. I’ve only experienced upgrading phone DACs pretty much.

I really would like to use this DAC purchase for a 2Ch system as well.

I need balanced outputs, ROON, and MQA.

The Sonnet does MQA and ROON so is one of only a hand full of DACs below the $15k-$30k range that do both.

Here is the list I’ve found that have all my requirements.


Cary Audio DMS-800PV $15k
DSC $too much
Goldnote DS10 Plus $3700
Krell Vanguard Universal DAC $6600
Lumin- Various prices and models
Mark Levinson 519 $22k
Matrix Audio Sabre Pro $3000
Meitner MA3 $9500
MSB $high
Mytek Brooklyn Bridge II $4k
Project DAC Box RS2 $2250

As one can see I didn’t find very many but if anyone can help narrow down the selection I would be grateful. Not really wanting to spend more than $5k but no hard limits on price if I feel the performance would be worth it.

Thanks all and bests,


----------



## sloomingbla

leftside said:


> Yep. I have the original GA in one room and the newer GA TRP in another. Anything above those models are out of my price range.


Oh nice!! I'm only realistically looking at the lower end of their lineup anyways. How does it pair with the TC?


----------



## ken6217

alford78 said:


> Will the Sonnet Morpheus Mkii pair well with the CFA3 and TC?
> 
> I have no idea about DACs in general and what to look for that will give an idea if they will perform below or above their price point. Never once heard a difference in an average to above average DAC. I’ve only experienced upgrading phone DACs pretty much.
> 
> ...


I’ve had that combination exactly. Great pairing.


----------



## ken6217

Also, there should be used ones available because Sonnet just came out with another DAC. Not a replacement, but a new flagship model.


----------



## ken6217

Also the Morpheus Is fully balanced like the CFA3.


----------



## Polygonhell

sloomingbla said:


> Has anyone here tried the lampizator dac with these, by the way? Lots and lots of hype for those things


I’ve had a couple of lampizators, currently running a balanced Pacific DAC with the optional volume control, using 242’s as driver tubes.
I think it sounds stunning, but I don’t have a CFA3, you have some scope to tradeoff dynamics and warmth with The DHT lampizators, they are always pretty neutral, but with say 300B’s or T100’s the stage is larger, and you get a hint of tube bloom at the expense of dynamics, PX25’s are in the middle and 242’s are about neutral dynamics.
i haven’t tried most of their middle ground DAC’s, but you probably get similar trade offs with the ones that support EL34/6SN7 and KT88’s.


----------



## vonBaron

Everyone talks about this CFA3 but i can't see nowhere price of new unit?


----------



## PierPP (Mar 5, 2022)

vonBaron said:


> Everyone talks about this CFA3 but i can't see nowhere price of new unit?



Becouse it’s super secret, you can't buy it. You must to deserve it ! 

jk... check https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kg-cfa3-headphone-amp.938064/


----------



## PierPP

CFA3's price varies on the options you choose (SE/XLR/Speakers outputs, volume pot etc) but the price range is around 3k USD


----------



## normie610

alford78 said:


> Will the Sonnet Morpheus Mkii pair well with the CFA3 and TC?
> 
> I have no idea about DACs in general and what to look for that will give an idea if they will perform below or above their price point. Never once heard a difference in an average to above average DAC. I’ve only experienced upgrading phone DACs pretty much.
> 
> ...


I can recommend Lumin T2. It sounds excellent, very easy firmware upgrade procedure, and has all the features you listed, plus it’s also a streamer (I’m using LAN input as Roon endpoint) & LEEDH volume processing.


----------



## karlheinz147

Hoegaardener70 said:


> The TC works surprisingly well with the M17. The sound is holographic, bass is with authority but well-defined. So nice to listen away from my desk.


Is the over-ear mode good enough to drive them well or do you need the enhanced over-ear mode connected to the wall?


----------



## Hoegaardener70

karlheinz147 said:


> Is the over-ear mode good enough to drive them well or do you need the enhanced over-ear mode connected to the wall?


Over-ear works ok - surprisingly good in fact - but enhanced over-ear makes a real difference and is preferable.


----------



## paradoxper

vonBaron said:


> Everyone talks about this CFA3 but i can't see nowhere price of new unit?


I, uh, I know a guy.


----------



## Ciggavelli

paradoxper said:


> I, uh, I know a guy.


I see you have the Valkyria in your signature. Yay or nah?  I’m getting interested in it


----------



## leftside

sloomingbla said:


> Oh nice!! I'm only realistically looking at the lower end of their lineup anyways. How does it pair with the TC?


Obviously I'm biased, but I've had these DACs for quite a while and feel no need at all to change. The latest Amber has the same engine as the TRP and is also meant to be very good.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> I see you have the Valkyria in your signature. Yay or nah?  I’m getting interested in it


It depends on a listening preference. They're not the technical electrostat, but they are the palpable and enriched timbre that displays physicality in a entirely different way similar to a 1266 on a different spectrum.

In my head, they're the open R10.

However, ensure you contact with a good dealer as these Italian boutique are gray in operation.


----------



## simorag

Given their special talent for cinematic soundscapes, uber-expressive drama, and sub-bass atmospheric rumble, the AB-1266 TC are the ideal headphones for movie soundtracks.

Let's start from a classic: a joy for the bass lover (try "Stay"), turning into introspective, meditative, almost existentialist.






This is more on the minimialistic side, with melancholic traits, a sense of timeless, absurd space.





A trip into a deranged mind, the darkest, sickest of the bunch.





Let's close with a more extrovert, fun, take on music making from another century (anyone noted a tendency to the dark lately?). A genius work from Lalo Shifrin, an energetic, light yet not banal collection, with some gems.


----------



## mitchb (Mar 8, 2022)

I sent my 1266 TC’s in to be looked at by  the Abyss team and FedEx loses them.   Thank   G-d for good insurance. I just today placed an order for a new pair. I will have to tough it out with Audeze LCD4’s for 2 months or more. I love the TC’s. I can’t imagine a better sounding headphone.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

mitchb said:


> I sent my 1266 TC’s in to be looked at by  the Abyss team and FedEx loses them.   Thank   G-d for good insurance. I just today placed an order for a new pair. I will have to tough it out with Audeze LCD4’s for 2 months or more. I love the TC’s. I can’t imagine a better sounding headphone.


Sorry to hear because this still causes stress and anxiety despite compensation. My (uninsured) UPS package went off the grid for a couple of days on its way to Abyss and it was just awful.


----------



## ken6217

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Sorry to hear because this still causes stress and anxiety despite compensation. My (uninsured) UPS package went off the grid for a couple of days on its way to Abyss and it was just awful.


Getting a brand new pair with no money out of your pocket more than surpasses a bit of stress and anxiety.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ken6217 said:


> Getting a brand new pair with no money out of your pocket more than surpasses a bit of stress and anxiety.


Good point.


----------



## vonBaron

Finally, I have the opportunity to listen to the LCD-5. The first impressions are very average, compared to the 1266 headphones are even thin. It seems to me that Utopia already had more bass. The upper midrange is sometimes gaudy. The sound stage is clearly smaller than in 1266. So far I'm only satisfied with the treble.


----------



## paradoxper

vonBaron said:


> Finally, I have the opportunity to listen to the LCD-5. The first impressions are very average, compared to the 1266 headphones are even thin. It seems to me that Utopia already had more bass. The upper midrange is sometimes gaudy. The sound stage is clearly smaller than in 1266. So far I'm only satisfied with the treble.


Compare DTC to LCD-5. 1266 smooshes.


----------



## vonBaron

Thats was i was thinking that ther are on level of Diana Phi (not TC).


----------



## vonBaron

For now i rather go buy again Utopia (more bass, more fun sound) than spend more and buy LCD-5.


----------



## Trance_Gott

vonBaron said:


> For now i rather go buy again Utopia (more bass, more fun sound) than spend more and buy LCD-5.


Take EQ and it easily surpass Utopia.
Think you have a DAP now? Install Neutron player and the party can start. Forget Utopia no contest in bass, clarity, soundstage, details.


----------



## number1sixerfan

I really struggle with the logic of 'Headphones Y EQ'd are better than headphones X". Every single pair of headphones can be EQ'd and once that happens you have no baseline and it's pure subjectivity based on customization. It just makes comparisons worthless at that point imo. 

The LCD-5 are the first headphones I've been disappointed in, in years. I've definitely sold cans due to them being bested by others I subsequently bought; the VC and Utopia are two that come to mind. But I appreciated them both for their price point and what they offered. I think my major gripe with the LCD-5 is their price and positioning as TOTL cans while not performing at the level of the TC/Susvara and a few others. Just too closed in and congested, with a weird tonality (and lack of clarity/transparency) tuning out of the box. They are not at all comparable to the TC in my humble opinion.


----------



## notofthisworld

I enjoy all of the posts with recommended listening.  It provides direction in listening to albums and even genres that i would otherwise not have tried.  Is there a sticky post or something we can do to group these recommendations together?


----------



## paradoxper

number1sixerfan said:


> I really struggle with the logic of 'Headphones Y EQ'd are better than headphones X". Every single pair of headphones can be EQ'd and once that happens you have no baseline and it's pure subjectivity based on customization. It just makes comparisons worthless at that point imo.
> 
> The LCD-5 are the first headphones I've been disappointed in, in years. I've definitely sold cans due to them being bested by others I subsequently bought; the VC and Utopia are two that come to mind. But I appreciated them both for their price point and what they offered. I think my major gripe with the LCD-5 is their price and positioning as TOTL cans while not performing at the level of the TC/Susvara and a few others. Just too closed in and congested, with a weird tonality (and lack of clarity/transparency) tuning out of the box. They are not at all comparable to the TC in my humble opinion.


Does this mean you still need to try the Empyrean to raise the disappointment ceiling. Then the Stealth. 🤣


----------



## vonBaron

LCD-5 sound very good with DHC Piron, are very sensitive to cables. They sounded thin and shrill on the Argentum cable (a local recognized cable maker).


----------



## Trance_Gott (Mar 9, 2022)

vonBaron said:


> LCD-5 sound very good with DHC Piron, are very sensitive to cables. They sounded thin and shrill on the Argentum cable (a local recognized cable maker).


They sounded thin without EQ no cable will change this tonality character.
Take CRBN when you don't want to use EQ or LCD5 with EQ. LCD-5 without EQ plays a league under Utopia this monster wake up with EQ!


----------



## number1sixerfan

paradoxper said:


> Does this mean you still need to try the Empyrean to raise the disappointment ceiling. Then the Stealth. 🤣



I do. I feel like I need to just give these a go as it sounds like a head-fi rights of passage lmao


----------



## ken6217

If anyone is interested, I have a new 1266 TC with both Superconductor and stock cables that I received on January 28 up for sale. Has 3 year warranty.

I'm selling as I'm having some issues withy hearing and this pretty much puts a damper on everything.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> If anyone is interested, I have a new 1266 TC with both Superconductor and stock cables that I received on January 28 up for sale. Has 3 year warranty.
> 
> I'm selling as I'm having some issues withy hearing and this pretty much puts a damper on everything.


Feel better soon!


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Feel better soon!


Thanks


----------



## Trance_Gott (Mar 10, 2022)

I have so much headphones now that I forgot about the 1266 TC and how god like it is with Metal.
New Album Halo from Amorphis is running...amazing.
After JPS fixed my sleepy driver problem it seems that the TC sounds even better.


----------



## Stereolab42 (Mar 10, 2022)

Trance_Gott said:


> I have so much headphones now that I forgot about the 1266 TC and how god like it is with Metal.
> New Album Halo from Amorphis is running...amazing.
> After JPS fixed my sleepy driver problem it seems that the TC sounds even better.


Metal is most of what I listen to and the TC "slays" it. Been rotating a lot of Ukrainian black metal recently, for obvious reasons (Drudkh, etc.)


----------



## PierPP

ken6217 said:


> If anyone is interested, I have a new 1266 TC with both Superconductor and stock cables that I received on January 28 up for sale. Has 3 year warranty.
> 
> I'm selling as I'm having some issues withy hearing and this pretty much puts a damper on everything.


Ouch. Hope you will be better soon mate !


----------



## PhazeCrive

ken6217 said:


> If anyone is interested, I have a new 1266 TC with both Superconductor and stock cables that I received on January 28 up for sale. Has 3 year warranty.
> 
> I'm selling as I'm having some issues withy hearing and this pretty much puts a damper on everything.


Prayers


----------



## yagislav

What would you guys recommend in the sub 1k USD for a dac/amp unit that can run the 1266 TC? I wanted to get something I can put in my bedroom.


----------



## mitchb (Mar 14, 2022)

Edit


----------



## PhazeCrive (Mar 14, 2022)

At that price, you're gonna get 10-20% max capabilities from the TC. You might as well get a DAP. A combo under 1000? Just about everything is gonna be sharp, cold, sterile or analytical‐‐not to mention extra lean where it matters. Better to look at the used market and slap on a few extra hundreds. You can run the TC off of a 150 dollar K5 pro, and that may be one of the best options considering the budget

Burson and Flux Lab Acoustics are worth looking at. Keep in mind 10% of the TC is still leagues better than 110% of most headphones though lol.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Had the TC for a couple months and I only now got the fit down. In my defense I don't use it everyday due to long work shifts, and it was frustrating spending hours fiddling with the fitment wondering why it doesnt sound the way I want to/remember, but once it's on right, you never wanna take it off. Once it crosses into the 60hz and below territory, it starts showing you why he's the "big brother" to Diana.


----------



## vonBaron

It's hard to take of 1266 of the head when they are on


----------



## Hoegaardener70

yagislav said:


> What would you guys recommend in the sub 1k USD for a dac/amp unit that can run the 1266 TC? I wanted to get something I can put in my bedroom.


The closest you can get with good quality is the FiiO M17 running with power supply. It’s still double your budget but it does a great job.


----------



## Pashmeister (Mar 14, 2022)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> The closest you can get with good quality is the FiiO M17 running with power supply. It’s still double your budget but it does a great job.


I got an M17 today primarily so I can transport and travel with my Susvara but the true revelation is how good it sounds with the TC. Have to upgrade the stock DC PSU though as it’s pretty bad.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Pashmeister said:


> I got an M17 today primarily so I can transport and travel with my Susvara but the true revelation is how good it sounds with the TC. Have to upgrade the stock DC PSU though as it’s pretty bad.


Yes! I recommend this one in the 12v variant - looks great too  .
Besides that, glad to hear more people appreciate the combo M17 and TC.


----------



## Pashmeister (Mar 14, 2022)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Yes! I recommend this one in the 12v variant - looks great too  .
> Besides that, glad to hear more people appreciate the combo M17 and TC.


I got exactly that and then had extra fun with it; plugged a Shunyata Venom digital power cord into a Shunyata Hydra Delta conditioner to get the cleanest power and it’s sounds better than with the garbage stock PSU 😂.

Not everyone’s gonna be convinced because a 1266 TC on a DAP is quite the oxymoron. But since I work abroad and will fly to my home country soon for a month, I feel a bit of anxiety being unable to  listen to my gear for so long. A powerful DAP addresses that for a bit. It’s a niche use case but it’s a good year to be an audiophile with new possibilities popping up left and right.


----------



## jaxt4r

It's so tempting to try driving the 1266tc with the speaker amp. 
Looking at the E650, but is there a detailed tutorial about how to connect the 1266 and the amp?
How to adjust the volume? 
How to protect the headphone from overpower?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## JLoud (Mar 14, 2022)

Schiit Jotunheim or Lyr if you like tubes. $600-700 with multibit card. Provided your using USB. 4W into 50 ohms.


----------



## Somatic

Sajid Amit said:


> The Raal is connected to the amp. The sub is also connected to the amp via subwoofer outs.


Do you use your sub for your other headphones too?


----------



## Sajid Amit

Somatic said:


> Do you use your sub for your other headphones too?


Long sold the sub. Got a bit fatiguing for me with near field listening lol. But was fun while it lasted.


----------



## bdjul

Hello everyone. Just bought a used ab-1266 ver. 1. Everything is ok, but I can hear a little rustle inside the headphones when putting them on. I can assume that membrane on the driver got stretched over time. Am I right? And how serious the problem is? Is it ok or do I need to change drivers? The sound is ok, no obvious abnormalities. 
The thread is so big, so can you help me out please? Thank you!


----------



## MatW

bdjul said:


> Hello everyone. Just bought a used ab-1266 ver. 1. Everything is ok, but I can hear a little rustle inside the headphones when putting them on. I can assume that membrane on the driver got stretched over time. Am I right? And how serious the problem is? Is it ok or do I need to change drivers? The sound is ok, no obvious abnormalities.
> The thread is so big, so can you help me out please? Thank you!


Rustle can be caused by your hair touching the driver. 'When putting them on' points in that direction. Solution: get a haircut.


----------



## MasterZen

If its a crinkle sound, that is common with some planar magnetic headphones. Audeze said its nothing to be concerned about ; https://audeze.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...cking-static-sound-when-I-press-on-the-earcup


----------



## ufospls2

MatW said:


> Rustle can be caused by your hair touching the driver. 'When putting them on' points in that direction. Solution: get a haircut.


Totally normal. Don't actively _try_ to get it to happen, but if it does, and they are still producing sound no problem, then I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## Somatic

Litlgi74 said:


> Closed minded much?
> 
> Thanks for the mockery.



I think its a great idea. If you do it with a great fast musical dynamic sub. Basically I feel headphones lack the immersion from feeling the actual sound waves. Adding a sub can help. Plus I have cranked certain headphones with tons of power and a ridiculous low bass shelf but nothing touches a sub. Can't wait to join the party.


----------



## Litlgi74

Somatic said:


> I think its a great idea. If you do it with a great fast musical dynamic sub. Basically I feel headphones lack the immersion from feeling the actual sound waves. Adding a sub can help. Plus I have cranked certain headphones with tons of power and a ridiculous low bass shelf but nothing touches a sub. Can't wait to join the party.


I have recently moved away from the use of a SW. I am now using a tactile transducer which is mounted to my bed frame. I control it with a Behringer amplifier which has DSP. This way I can control and reproduce the frequencies I want to feel.

I am using a Clark synthesis TST429 Platinum and a Behringer NX1000D.


----------



## Pashmeister

Litlgi74 said:


> I have recently moved away from the use of a SW. I am now using a tactile transducer which is mounted to my bed frame. I control it with a Behringer amplifier which has DSP. This way I can control and reproduce the frequencies I want to feel.
> 
> I am using a Clark synthesis TST429 Platinum and a Behringer NX1000D.


A tactile transducer… hmmm sounds like fun. I would love to at least experience it one of these days. 

Is it less disruptive for other members of the household compared to using a sub? 

I don’t crave tacticle bass with TC but what do I know, havent tried it with the TC. Havent even tried SW with TC, just the Susvara (which is fun).


----------



## Litlgi74

Pashmeister said:


> A tactile transducer… hmmm sounds like fun. I would love to at least experience it one of these days.
> 
> Is it less disruptive for other members of the household compared to using a sub?
> 
> I don’t crave tacticle bass with TC but what do I know, havent tried it with the TC. Havent even tried SW with TC, just the Susvara (which is fun).


I've tried all versions of the Woojer and Subpac 2... They are not fast enough to keep up with the TCs... Or the SR1a. But the Clark Synthesis works quite well.

The transducer does vibrate... A lot! But unlike a SW... vibrations can be dampened and focused to the listening position with the proper use of isolation feet. 

I use the transducer mainly for the viseral SW feeling when listening to Dolby Atmos films through my Smyth Realiser A16.


----------



## PhazeCrive

I used the Subpac S2 with TC. Agree, it is not fast enough but still adds something the TC didn't. What's different about the Clark? Seeing its FR go up to 17khz as a physical feeling sounds interesting. Surely must be a lot faster than the subpac.

I take it the platinum is their highest model? I may pick one up after my Burson GT arrives. @Litlgi74


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Litlgi74 said:


> I've tried all versions of the Woojer and Subpac 2... They are not fast enough to keep up with the TCs... Or the SR1a. But the Clark Synthesis works quite well.
> 
> The transducer does vibrate... A lot! But unlike a SW... vibrations can be dampened and focused to the listening position with the proper use of isolation feet.
> 
> I use the transducer mainly for the viseral SW feeling when listening to Dolby Atmos films through my Smyth Realiser A16.


Would you mind sharing a picture of your setup, Litlgi74?


----------



## Litlgi74

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Would you mind sharing a picture of your setup, Litlgi74?


Of course... When I get home in a little bit.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Mar 16, 2022)

Nothing terribly exciting.



These are the isolation feet I have on the slats holding the box spring. Three slats... The feet on each slat. My wife will not be pleased if I take my bed apart now.


These are the lineouts I use on my Moon 600i (my headphone amplifier for both TCs and SR1a)... They go to the NX1000D


These are my settings in the Behringer NX1000D.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Nothing terribly exciting.


Litlgi74 said:


> These are the isolation feet I have on the slats holding the box spring. Three slats... The feet on each slat. My wife will not be pleased if I take my bed apart now.
> 
> 
> These are the lineouts I use on my Moon 600i (my headphone amplifier for both TCs and SR1a)... They go to the NX1000D
> ...


Thank you, Litlg74. It's very instructive to see a working setup in place, looks great. The trasnducer must be fun, although I am still enjoying my woojer.


----------



## Traiguen

vonBaron said:


> It's hard to take of 1266 of the head when they are on


Focal Stellia "used to be" my favorite headphone until I got the 1266 Phi.... now, I cannot take them off!!!  It is really amazingly how entertaining this headphone really is. When somebody is in the room and don't want to hear my music I switch back to the Stellia.... oh boy.... I want to put the 1266 on again.  I fear it is addictive.


----------



## Somatic

Traiguen said:


> Focal Stellia "used to be" my favorite headphone until I got the 1266 Phi.... now, I cannot take them off!!!  It is really amazingly how entertaining this headphone really is. When somebody is in the room and don't want to hear my music I switch back to the Stellia.... oh boy.... I want to put the 1266 on again.  I fear it is addictive.


Good addiction


----------



## paradoxper

Traiguen said:


> Focal Stellia "used to be" my favorite headphone until I got the 1266 Phi.... now, I cannot take them off!!!  It is really amazingly how entertaining this headphone really is. When somebody is in the room and don't want to hear my music I switch back to the Stellia.... oh boy.... I want to put the 1266 on again.  I fear it is addictive.


When Diana Closed releases, what will you do, huh. Ha.


----------



## fiiom11pro

can you guys post your 1266 gears. I wanna see your beautiful setups with the abyss.


----------



## ra990

Anyone try the Fiio K9 Pro with the Abyss?


----------



## Pashmeister

fiiom11pro said:


> can you guys post your 1266 gears. I wanna see your beautiful setups with the abyss.


This request gives me “what are you wearing” sexting vibes 😂


----------



## fiiom11pro

Pashmeister said:


> This request gives me “what are you wearing” sexting vibes 😂



what a beauty


----------



## TheMiddleSky

ra990 said:


> Anyone try the Fiio K9 Pro with the Abyss?


Not my preference. K9 Pro for AB1266 TC sounds "weak", means soft impact/bite through all spectrum, grey-ish black background, and a bit narrow on soundstage.

Now I'm curious if burson playmate 2 can drive 1266 better.


----------



## deuter

TheMiddleSky said:


> Not my preference. K9 Pro for AB1266 TC sounds "weak", means soft impact/bite through all spectrum, grey-ish black background, and a bit narrow on soundstage.
> 
> Now I'm curious if burson playmate 2 can drive 1266 better.


I have a 1266 and a playmate 2 . Will try the combo today and let you know whether it can power the headphones.


----------



## sloomingbla

I have the lampizator golden atlantic (not trp) on the way to test with my 1266’s, found a crazy good price on one. Excited about the combo, and intrigued by how this will work out with my modest auralic mk2 as the amp. Just waiting for the right bargain to show up to upgrade.. although I really am thinking the wa33 will be the one to scratch the itch when I can afford it.


----------



## Polygonhell

sloomingbla said:


> I have the lampizator golden atlantic (not trp) on the way to test with my 1266’s, found a crazy good price on one. Excited about the combo, and intrigued by how this will work out with my modest auralic mk2 as the amp. Just waiting for the right bargain to show up to upgrade.. although I really am thinking the wa33 will be the one to scratch the itch when I can afford it.



I really like Lampizator DAC's Congrats, I run a Pacific on my headphone setup.
I like the WA33 with the 1266, but I actually preferred the 1266 on SS, specifically the OG Cavalli Liquid Gold I had for a while.
I go the other way with the Susvara, much prefer the WA33 for that pairing.


----------



## sloomingbla (Mar 18, 2022)

Polygonhell said:


> I really like Lampizator DAC's Congrats, I run a Pacific on my headphone setup.
> I like the WA33 with the 1266, but I actually preferred the 1266 on SS, specifically the OG Cavalli Liquid Gold I had for a while.
> I go the other way with the Susvara, much prefer the WA33 for that pairing.


That's surprising to me, although I really know nothing about the Cavalli. Are you using the Wa33 SE, Elite, or JPS edition?

I've heard mixed reviews (either LOVE or "Like") with the pairing of the SE with the 1266, but I was leaning more towards the JPS edition.. hard to find many first hand accounts on these pairings though.

A big reason I went with the Lampi first over a new amp besides getting the great price was the ability to see how it paired with a solid state amp. I figure if it injects enough tubeiness for my liking I'd go for a solid state, maybe get the best of both worlds haha. Realistically though, I've heard nothing but good things about the JPS edition, and I'm really looking for something end game as I HATE reselling.. makes me worry too much about keeping them in good condition while I use them.


----------



## Polygonhell

sloomingbla said:


> That's surprising to me, although I really know nothing about the Cavalli. Are you using the Wa33 SE, Elite, or JPS edition?


Mines an SE, KR 5U4G anniversary regulator, PSVane Acme 2A3's , I'm looking to upgrade, but the amps I want to hear are difficult to audition to say the least, I really like the WA33 and an Elite Edition would be an option, but there are a couple of other amps I'm looking to audition before I drop that sort of money.
The only warning I'd give about the WA33, is it sounds very SS at first blush, if your wanting what most entry level tube amps give you it's not that, I like my tube amps on the dryer side, so it works really well form me, but it's not for everyone.



sloomingbla said:


> . I figure if it injects enough tubeiness for my liking I'd go for a solid state,


They aren't actually very "tubey" DAC's they tend to lean more clean that anything, though the older models did skew a bit more "tubey" than the newer ones.
Don't get me wrong you can hear the tubes if you listen for them, or AB with something that doesn't have them, but they aren't tube forwards in any way.
They do sound just incredibly natural, and I hate using words like that.


----------



## sloomingbla (Mar 18, 2022)

Polygonhell said:


> They aren't actually very "tubey" DAC's they tend to lean more clean that anything, though the older models did skew a bit more "tubey" than the newer ones.
> Don't get me wrong you can hear the tubes if you listen for them, or AB with something that doesn't have them, but they aren't tube forwards in any way.
> They do sound just incredibly natural, and I hate using words like that.


That’s good to know! I’ve been curious about these dacs for a while - everyone seems to love them, but the consensus on their “house sound” seems inconsistent. I’ve heard their amps called bright, sweet, warm, midrangey, and everything inbetween so I’ve been assuming the coloration is likely there, but mild. What is consistent though is the talk of some unique, lively quality to the sound.

I’ve also heard about the ss like response of the wa33, it’s definitely something I’d like to demo before buying. My HOPE is it’s basically the best of both worlds, but we’ll see.

That’s kinda my goal - trying to find that perfect balance of a clean sound, and something romantic. My th900s are pretty good in that regard, but they are also much lower fidelity.


----------



## MichalZZZZ

Hi there, 

Which balanced cable (XLR) do you recommend for Abyss 1266 Phi TC with a maximum length of 2 meters (can be 1.5 meters) ? I can spend up to 1,200 $ or €. I live in Europe so I prefer to order from here, but I can also order from USA if there is anything interesting. I love the sound of Abyss and I wish it was even better. I don't want anything that brightens up their sound too much. Something more neutral with a strong bass and nice midrange


----------



## MatW

MichalZZZZ said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Which balanced cable (XLR) do you recommend for Abyss 1266 Phi TC with a maximum length of 2 meters (can be 1.5 meters) ? I can spend up to 1,200 $ or €. I live in Europe so I prefer to order from here, but I can also order from USA if there is anything interesting. I love the sound of Abyss and I wish it was even better. I don't want anything that brightens up their sound too much. Something more neutral with a strong bass and nice midrange


I'd say Forza audio works.


----------



## leftside

Polygonhell said:


> They aren't actually very "tubey" DAC's they tend to lean more clean that anything, though the older models did skew a bit more "tubey" than the newer ones.
> Don't get me wrong you can hear the tubes if you listen for them, or AB with something that doesn't have them, but they aren't tube forwards in any way.
> They do sound just incredibly natural, and I hate using words like that.


Yep


----------



## MichalZZZZ (Mar 18, 2022)

@MatW 

I already have Forza with other headphones. I would prefer something a bit better.


----------



## sahmen (Mar 18, 2022)

MichalZZZZ said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Which balanced cable (XLR) do you recommend for Abyss 1266 Phi TC with a maximum length of 2 meters (can be 1.5 meters) ? I can spend up to 1,200 $ or €. I live in Europe so I prefer to order from here, but I can also order from USA if there is anything interesting. I love the sound of Abyss and I wish it was even better. I don't want anything that brightens up their sound too much. Something more neutral with a strong bass and nice midrange


I love my Norne Audio Vykari and Drausk with the 1266 TCs. They're both within the reach of your stated budget, but you will have to buy them from the States. The Norne Vygarde too might work. Web link: *Norne Audio*. Norne Audio boss, Trevor Goldman is @TigzStudio on Head-fi, in case you would like to pm him.


----------



## normie610

sahmen said:


> Trevor Noah is @TigzStudio on Head-fi,


It’s actually Trevor Goldman 😁 

and this is Trevor Noah:


----------



## JLoud

The WA33 se is indeed a combination of ss and tube. I had a WA5le and a HeadAmp GSX mk2 and the WA33 was a nice combination of the two. I felt it paired very well with the TC.


----------



## sahmen (Mar 18, 2022)

normie610 said:


> It’s actually Trevor Goldman 😁
> 
> and this is Trevor Noah:


Correct!.. I had a brain malfunction which involuntarily replaced "Goldman" with "Noah".  You might count that among many side effects of over-caffeination but it has been corrected


----------



## MichalZZZZ

Thanks. It looks great and I'm interested. Can you recommend one or two more cable manufacturers so that I have a choice? I know Silver Dragon, Lavricables and Plussound. By the way - has anyone used Plussound for Abyss?


----------



## Stanl3h

Hi, I am a happy owner of the abyss 1266 phi tc, however, the glue on one of the earpads has started to fail, they are about a year old and I really don't want to pay the crazy price for a new pair that are otherwise in great condition. 

Can anyone recommend any good glue or other fixes to help me save £450.
Thanks


----------



## the1andonly

Stanl3h said:


> Hi, I am a happy owner of the abyss 1266 phi tc, however, the glue on one of the earpads has started to fail, they are about a year old and I really don't want to pay the crazy price for a new pair that are otherwise in great condition.
> 
> Can anyone recommend any good glue or other fixes to help me save £450.
> Thanks


I would think leather glue would work great? just make sure that you clean the parts that need to be glued beforehand and read the instructions (some call for ~15min of drying after applying on both surfaces before you squeeze them together)


----------



## MatW

Stanl3h said:


> Hi, I am a happy owner of the abyss 1266 phi tc, however, the glue on one of the earpads has started to fail, they are about a year old and I really don't want to pay the crazy price for a new pair that are otherwise in great condition.
> 
> Can anyone recommend any good glue or other fixes to help me save £450.
> Thanks


Wouldn't that be covered by the warranty?


----------



## ZYReady

Abyss Headphones said:


> We’re aware of it. Apparently some guy in China enjoys making knock off headphones of various manufactures. If he was smart he would use all that energy to make his own in his image with his own brand name; maybe one day.


Let me get this straight. Luckily, I knew the guy in person mentioned in the "fake 1266" topic, thanks to my stay back in China during 2020-2022 caused by COVID. The guy who posted it here was trying to be nice and to warn people here to avoid, but he didn't clearly state everything, which hurt the friend who posted the original thread in the Chinese forum. 

The original thread is actually talking about how he tried to clean and do some basic maintenance for a customer's OG 1266. When he opened up the headphones, he found that the driver was not the original. He couldn't decide if it was a "fake" by just looking at appearance or the headphones had some issue before and were fixed by some unprofessional guys. So, he posted the process online asking if anyone knew about the existence of that "version". All the photos were taken by him. He tried to visualize if the 1266 was genuine by some small details on the chassis, headband, and driver membrane, but he didn't get a clue. All he had confidence was that the driver was swapped for some reason but the owner was not aware. 

The original thread was not posted by the owner of the "fake". The owner was shocked and felt really sad after my friend completed the maintenance and informed him. 

The DIY market in China grows fast in past years and there are more and more clones coming out. It can be a good thing for customers to get cheaper parts for self-repair, but it can also hurt the profit and credit of the Brands if those factories and individual sellers (the main portion) have no ethics and limits on what they are doing. 

Some gossip and rumors: there might be Audeze LCD clones sooner or later. There have already been tons of Grado clones in the second-hand market in China. There are a few clones of Kennerton Thror but I didn't have a chance to have a touch on it because I left for Australia in Dec 2021. The drivers for Grado clones even have relatively high quality with a good sound, but we can still distinguish them. 

Since I also played around with DIY stuff during the past 2 years, I knew some people doing this (cloning reputable brands) and making profits from that. The cloned Grados have similarities in sound but 5 times cheaper, at least, and that's why so many people choose them. I'll post some DIY headphones I made for my own use later if anyone is interested.


----------



## ken6217

ZYReady said:


> Let me get this straight. Luckily, I knew the guy in person mentioned in the "fake 1266" topic, thanks to my stay back in China during 2020-2022 caused by COVID. The guy who posted it here was trying to be nice and to warn people here to avoid, but he didn't clearly state everything, which hurt the friend who posted the original thread in the Chinese forum.
> 
> The original thread is actually talking about how he tried to clean and do some basic maintenance for a customer's OG 1266. When he opened up the headphones, he found that the driver was not the original. He couldn't decide if it was a "fake" by just looking at appearance or the headphones had some issue before and were fixed by some unprofessional guys. So, he posted the process online asking if anyone knew about the existence of that "version". All the photos were taken by him. He tried to visualize if the 1266 was genuine by some small details on the chassis, headband, and driver membrane, but he didn't get a clue. All he had confidence was that the driver was swapped for some reason but the owner was not aware.
> 
> ...


So what's your point?


----------



## sloomingbla

Finally recieved my lampizator golden atlantic dac! 

Let me tell you, it made a woorld of difference. Keeps making me question if I’m listening to a remastered version of a song. Never enjoyed my music more.

I can't compare it to anything else, as the closest reference for me was my Fostex hpa8. There may very well be better pairings, but this sounds absolutely perfect to my ears. The sound feels full and rich without any sort of clarity or detail smudging. Tonality feels spot on too, natural was a great describing word. Personally I find it pretty euphoric as well. Makes me want to listen to every song I put through it, regardless of how well the song was mastered.

Anyways, again as I don't have much to compare it to it's hard to say this is better than the dac competition for the 1266, but I can definitely say it's a beautiful pairing. Especially considering I found this used for 5800$, compared to the MSRP of 9800$, I am VERY happy with my purchase.


----------



## ZYReady

ken6217 said:


> So what's your point?


The point is, Abyss officials should not take the original post as "this guy made a fake", but he's actually the one helping us know there's a potential fake in the market. 

Also, people should be aware it's not only Abyss involved in this issue but also other brands. The difference is whether the seller wanna mess around with you. If they want, I'd say sometimes it can be very hard to identify since the clones (especially Grado) are highly identical.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> So what's your point?


None.


----------



## F208Frank

Is there someone who actually prefers the stock cable over the SC cable sound quality wise?


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

Unfortunately, I could never compare the SC cables with the stock cables.  Are the SC cables really that much better? 🤔


----------



## cerol

... and how much better is really AB-1266 TC than CC Phi?  Can anybody tell the difference in money? I am considering paying 800 (USD) extra  for a TC.  Or should I skip Abyss all together - and buy Meze, Hifiman or Audeze? Advice!


----------



## mitchb

If you can get a pair of TC’s for $800 US grab it. They are $4500 headphones!


----------



## cerol

It is 800 USD + my Phi as exchange!


----------



## mitchb

That sounds like a fair deal. The TC’s are supposed to be a better sounding headphone.


----------



## the1andonly

I would look at how long the TC has been out... I mean this could be the last revision for all we know or there could be more over the horizon, isn't that Abyss's whole mantra? Nothing but the best, settle for nothing less? Overall it's not a bad price considering the normal prices at Abyss, if you decide to get with another headphone, post a message in the thread for it and I bet you someone can help you get a great deal too 
but I think for $800 only it would have to be the TC to have anything to compare to CC.... also your in the 1266 thread, you have to remember that, lol, would be prudent to ask around, nothing wrong with posting here though.


----------



## paradoxper

cerol said:


> ... and how much better is really AB-1266 TC than CC Phi?  Can anybody tell the difference in money? I am considering paying 800 (USD) extra  for a TC.  Or should I skip Abyss all together - and buy Meze, Hifiman or Audeze? Advice!


2% transitionally formative. One would hope this is resulting in a brand-new trade.

The CC Phi is further still a more resolving bass monster than those former mentioned.

You may only wish to hold off for a time as the closed-variant is sure to release which may offer a upgrade incentive.

However, yes, the TC is king. Pair it with a tube complement, and you'll discover the rewards of most completion.


----------



## sloomingbla (Mar 22, 2022)

Would just like to share that I let my mom listen to my setup today, and she told me she was genuinely scared to close her eyes, because she felt like she would lose touch with reality.

Edit: Also! If you happen to be looking for an adrenaline rush, try listening to M. Night Shambala by Space Jesus. I've always thought this song was "Kinda cool" until I heard it on this setup. Very well mastered, lots of bass, trippy effects, absolute rollercoaster to listen to. If anyone else has some trippy songs similar to this hmu! I can't get enough.


----------



## ken6217

sloomingbla said:


> Would just like to share that I let my mom listen to my setup today, and she told me she was genuinely scared to close her eyes, because she felt like she would lose touch with reality.


You putting mushrooms in mom’s tea again?


----------



## sloomingbla

ken6217 said:


> You putting mushrooms in mom’s tea again?


Call me shroomingbla, lmao


----------



## Litlgi74

Taking the Abyss AB1266 Φ TC headphones To Another Level

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...b1266-φ-tc-headphones-to-another-level-r1091/


----------



## paradoxper

Litlgi74 said:


> Taking the Abyss AB1266 Φ TC headphones To Another Level
> 
> https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/taking-the-abyss-ab1266-φ-tc-headphones-to-another-level-r1091/


Superb. Will be interesting to see how the neutral complements tube harmonics. A step forward for all in dialing things in.


----------



## leftside (Mar 22, 2022)

Litlgi74 said:


> Taking the Abyss AB1266 Φ TC headphones To Another Level
> 
> https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/taking-the-abyss-ab1266-φ-tc-headphones-to-another-level-r1091/


That's amazing. I know Mitch and have worked with him in the past. I'm going to reach out to him.

Edit: I'm also going to get a set of those filters for the Abyss, and Mitch will also produce some filters for my LCD-4.


----------



## DJJEZ

Litlgi74 said:


> Taking the Abyss AB1266 Φ TC headphones To Another Level
> 
> https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/taking-the-abyss-ab1266-φ-tc-headphones-to-another-level-r1091/


Very cool


----------



## Ruddy1

ZYReady said:


> The point is, Abyss officials should not take the original post as "this guy made a fake", but he's actually the one helping us know there's a potential fake in the market.
> 
> Also, people should be aware it's not only Abyss involved in this issue but also other brands. The difference is whether the seller wanna mess around with you. If they want, I'd say sometimes it can be very hard to identify since the clones (especially Grado) are highly identical.


thank you


----------



## Ruddy1

cerol said:


> It is 800 USD + my Phi as exchange!


I think Phi will be better than TC! Please do not upgrade


----------



## ra990 (Mar 22, 2022)

Today, I rebuilt the stock Abyss cable I hated so much and turned it into a cable I can connect directly into the balanced outs of my TT2. The cable is so much softer and lighter now with all the (imo) unnecessary material they have making it so stiff. The actual conductors were insulated/coated already and pretty thin. I should have taken a pic, but I was surprised how thin they were. Each of the cables you see here has 4 conductors in them, so you can get an idea. The sleve is about as thick as a standard shoelace.


----------



## ZYReady

Ruddy1 said:


> thank you


cheers


----------



## F208Frank

ra990 said:


> Today, I rebuilt the stock Abyss cable I hated so much and turned it into a cable I can connect directly into the balanced outs of my TT2. The cable is so much softer and lighter now with all the (imo) unnecessary material they have making it so stiff. The actual conductors were insulated/coated already and pretty thin. I should have taken a pic, but I was surprised how thin they were. Each of the cables you see here has 4 conductors in them, so you can get an idea. The sleve is about as thick as a standard shoelace.


I always am amazed that people take on projects like this themselves, I would never be able to do that or think of doing that. Different talents for different people for sure, nice job.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ra990 said:


> Today, I rebuilt the stock Abyss cable I hated so much and turned it into a cable I can connect directly into the balanced outs of my TT2. The cable is so much softer and lighter now with all the (imo) unnecessary material they have making it so stiff. The actual conductors were insulated/coated already and pretty thin. I should have taken a pic, but I was surprised how thin they were. Each of the cables you see here has 4 conductors in them, so you can get an idea. The sleve is about as thick as a standard shoelace.


Could you please share what you did - I assume you cut away the outer insulation which held together the 4 conductors?


----------



## F208Frank

Stanl3h said:


> Hi, I am a happy owner of the abyss 1266 phi tc, however, the glue on one of the earpads has started to fail, they are about a year old and I really don't want to pay the crazy price for a new pair that are otherwise in great condition.
> 
> Can anyone recommend any good glue or other fixes to help me save £450.
> Thanks


I had this happen to me also on my old pair, it did not fail completely but was starting to.


----------



## ra990 (Mar 25, 2022)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Could you please share what you did - I assume you cut away the outer insulation which held together the 4 conductors?


I started by removing the outer black sleeve by carefully cutting through it. Then I cut another layer of thin white wrap below that. Below that were all these strands of plastic or nylon type material separating the conductors and adding thickness to the cable (picture below, this is what makes up the majority of the cable -- and it's contributions to the sound of the cable are zero, _IMO and subjective listening_...see subsequent post about inductance/capacitance, etc by joe below). I discarded all that and just kept the 4 thin, insulated conductors (red and white insulation on them). I then got new connectors for each end, soldered the mini xlr ends and used the stock Abyss caps on them. I put the cables through the dark gray fabric sleeve, heat shrunk and clamped the mini xlr ends. Then soldered the full sized female XLR connections, heat shrunk, clamped and finally just twisted the cables together...and voila...new cable that is feather weight and doesn't require an adapter into my TT2.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

ra990 said:


> I started by removing the outer black sleeve by carefully cutting through it. Then I cut another layer of thin white wrap below that. Below that were all these strands of plastic or nylon type material separating the conductors and adding thickness to the cable (picture below, this is what makes up the majority of the cable -- and it's contributions to the sound of the cable are zero). I discarded all that and just kept the 4 thin, insulated conductors (red and white insulation on them). I then got new connectors for each end, soldered the mini xlr ends and used the stock Abyss caps on them. I put the cables through the dark gray fabric sleeve, heat shrunk and clamped the mini xlr ends. Then soldered the full sized female XLR connections, heat shrunk, clamped and finally just twisted the cables together...and voila...new cable that is feather weight and doesn't require an adapter into my TT2.


Thanks and congrats! It takes guts to do this with such an expensive stock cable. However, after reading your description I discarded any plan to follow suit .... way too non-tech for that .


----------



## ra990 (Mar 24, 2022)

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Thanks and congrats! It takes guts to do this with such an expensive stock cable. However, after reading your description I discarded any plan to follow suit .... way too non-tech for that .


It took a few hours because the mini xlr soldering wasn't easy and sleeving was a pain to get on. I also kept doing things out of order and had to redo stuff, like getting everything on and realizing I forgot the bottom of the connectors, which had to go on first, lol. I'm not that experienced at building cables but this is my third or fourth maybe. It took me a few tries to get it perfect. Also, this was an extra stock cable I had - purchased one from a fellow head-fier a while back and never got the time to follow through till now. I still have a stock cable I never took out of the box for when I sell them.


----------



## Joe Skubinski

The stock cable for the AB1266 is specific to this headphone. The fillers are used to properly space the conductors to set up the capacitance and inductance mating to the drivers. To say the fillers contribute nothing to the sound is not accurate, they are a significant part of the design of the stock cable.


----------



## ra990 (Mar 24, 2022)

Joe Skubinski said:


> The stock cable for the AB1266 is specific to this headphone. The fillers are used to properly space the conductors to set up the capacitance and inductance mating to the drivers. To say the fillers contribute nothing to the sound is not accurate, they are a significant part of the design of the stock cable.


Hi Joe, how about making a better stock cable for the 1266, something a bit more ergonomic? I would like to see the flagship 1266 be paired with a better _feeling _cable and I know I'm not alone in that. I find a light and easy cable turns the 1266 into a very easy to wear headphone but a tough cable, like the stock one, leaves me wrestling with it every few minutes and makes the entire experience annoying.

I have edited my post to make it clear that it was just my opinion that the filler material added nothing to the sound. I usually make that pretty clear.


----------



## ken6217

Do you think the fillers were out in there for no reason?  If you look at reviews on cables, and especially better cables, they discuss what’s inside the jacket besides the wire themselves, and how it contributes to the sound signature.


----------



## ra990

Sure, let's assume they do and prevent this thread from turning into a cable argument. My only complaints are the feel of the stock cable, not the sound. How much the filler added to it or not, I can't tell. I'm sure better ears could.


----------



## Ruddy1

I use Tara labs the Omega live cable, which is the best cable for 1266


----------



## ken6217

Ruddy1 said:


> I use Tara labs the Omega live cable, which is the best cable for 1266


Open it up and see if there’s any filler in it. 😂


----------



## qboogie

Litlgi74 said:


> Taking the Abyss AB1266 Φ TC headphones To Another Level
> 
> https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...b1266-φ-tc-headphones-to-another-level-r1091/


I'm just a little confused. How is this filter implemented? Is it a custom program or plugin that you put into your source?

It sounds cool and worthwhile. I love the meticulous nature of his work


----------



## Hoegaardener70

qboogie said:


> I'm just a little confused. How is this filter implemented? Is it a custom program or plugin that you put into your source?
> 
> It sounds cool and worthwhile. I love the meticulous nature of his work


It seems you are expected to buy this software in addition: https://accuratesound.ca/products.html. I am not sure if this is a requirement to use the filter, the article (or promotion?) isn’t clear on it. However, I quick searched and found that room is able to process fir filters, but it sounds not straightforward: https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/dsp-engine-convolution

I also found usd 375,- for Eq-settings “ambitious”.


----------



## Litlgi74

Hoegaardener70 said:


> https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/dsp-engine-convolution


Yes, this is how you install the filters into Roon... It only takes a few seconds.

The Hang Loose software (https://accuratesound.ca/products.html) while convenient, is only used to instantly and seamlessly compare the filters. It is not necessary for everyday use.


----------



## leftside

qboogie said:


> I'm just a little confused. How is this filter implemented? Is it a custom program or plugin that you put into your source?
> 
> It sounds cool and worthwhile. I love the meticulous nature of his work


I'm going to try them this weekend. I will use Roon to load the filters. Mitch has sent me instructions.


----------



## Ciggavelli

leftside said:


> I'm going to try them this weekend. I will use Roon to load the filters. Mitch has sent me instructions.


I'm curious what you think.  I'm contemplating buying them as well


----------



## DJJEZ

Ciggavelli said:


> I'm curious what you think.  _*I'm contemplating buying them as well*_


Same here


----------



## ra990

I'm pretty interested, but the price seems excessive for what are basically EQ presets. For around this price, I'd expect to be able to send my pair in and get a specific measurement and EQ profile for it. Maybe all 1266 TC measure almost identically, in which case that won't be necessary, but then I'd hope the price would be lower.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ra990 said:


> I'm pretty interested, but the price seems excessive for what are basically EQ presets. For around this price, I'd expect to be able to send my pair in and get a specific measurement and EQ profile for it. Maybe all 1266 TC measure almost identically, in which case that won't be necessary, but then I'd hope the price would be lower.


I bought his SR1a convolution filters and they were very good.  I think they were like $300, so he's upped his price by $75.  It is pricey for some EQ filters, but it did make my SR1a sound better, and it sounded much better than any of my EQ tweaking. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## normie610

Ciggavelli said:


> I bought his SR1a convolution filters and they were very good.  I think they were like $300, so he's upped his price by $75.  It is pricey for some EQ filters, but it did make my SR1a sound better, and it sounded much better than any of my EQ tweaking. 🤷‍♂️


I also bought the SR1a filters. While they sound great, I still prefer my EQ settings 😊


----------



## yagislav

Anybody using 1266TC with Riviera AIC-10? Do you prefer hi or low gain?


----------



## normie610

yagislav said:


> Anybody using 1266TC with Riviera AIC-10? Do you prefer hi or low gain?


Paging @simorag


----------



## ken6217

I almost did. Canceled the order right before it shipped and then sold the TC.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Mar 26, 2022)

ra990 said:


> For around this price, I'd expect to be able to send my pair in and get a specific measurement and EQ profile for it.


FYI... It cost nearly $700 round trip (with insurance and customs) to ship my TCs to Mitch... This is mainly because we are on opposite sides of the continent.


----------



## simorag (Mar 26, 2022)

yagislav said:


> Anybody using 1266TC with Riviera AIC-10? Do you prefer hi or low gain?



I selected the AIC-10 specifically for matching the AB-1266 after a very enjoyable yearlong series of auditions (details in the link in my signature).
I am still amazed by how well they go together especially when fitting the AIC-10 with the "right " tube for one's tastes.

I used to drive the Abyss from the hp out in high gain mode, then moved to speaker taps, where I find a further increase of transparency, soundstage size and resolution, dynamics swings control (bass and massed orchestral passages organization).

I got my xlr to spk out adapter custom made by Invictus Cables here in Italy (invictus.cable@hotmail.com), with a rather exotic conductors mix (palladium, gold, silver).


----------



## Marco_tam

simorag said:


> I selected the AIC-10 specifically for matching the AB-1266 after a very enjoyable yearlong series of auditions (details in the link in my signature).
> I am still amazed by how well they go together especially when fitting the AIC-10 with the "right " tube for one's tastes.
> 
> I used to drive the Abyss from the hp out in high gain mode, then moved to speaker taps, where I find a further increase of transparency, soundstage size and resolution, dynamics swings control (bass and massed orchestral passages organization).
> ...



How's it going with the Taiko Extreme pairing with the AB-1266 TC so far? Is it a match in heaven?


----------



## Joe Skubinski (Mar 26, 2022)

I had specific design parameters for the stock cable for the original AB1266. It had to be clear to the source, low capacitance to play nice with what was then a mixed bag of headphone amps, non-microphonic, durable, and lightweight enough to not weigh down the headphone. From a cost perspective, time to assemble had to be minimized, majority of labor was devoted to the headphone itself, which means the cable itself had to be manufactured to specs that meet the above.

Later, Superconductor HP was designed as an upgrade cable for sonics, softness, etc. Conductor size needed to be as large as possible, but not too large as to weigh down or drag around a headphone that's designed to float on your head. The only way to make this cable is from the inside out, hand-made form scratch, it's time and materials intensive. And BTW aside from the connectors, it's all US made.
As a side note, with the AB1266 Complete package, Superconductor HP is the stock cable 




ra990 said:


> Hi Joe, how about making a better stock cable for the 1266, something a bit more ergonomic? I would like to see the flagship 1266 be paired with a better _feeling _cable and I know I'm not alone in that. I find a light and easy cable turns the 1266 into a very easy to wear headphone but a tough cable, like the stock one, leaves me wrestling with it every few minutes and makes the entire experience annoying.
> 
> I have edited my post to make it clear that it was just my opinion that the filler material added nothing to the sound. I usually make that pretty clear.


----------



## eee1111 (Mar 26, 2022)

Never mind


----------



## ken6217

eee1111 said:


> There is no scenario where the superconductor cable is worth anywhere near 2,000 dollars
> 
> Sorry


Edit. There’s no scenario for you. 

I guess you never learned that what something is worth is what you’re willing to pay. 

I’m sure you get the vast majority of the population that’ll say that there is no scenario where is the headphone itself is worth $6500. 

If you have a Ferrari, don’t bitch about the price of high test.


----------



## eee1111

ken6217 said:


> Edit. There’s no scenario for you.
> 
> I guess you never learned that what something is worth is what you’re willing to pay.
> 
> ...


I get it

You’re totally right. Hell I even own expensive gear myself. But the cables. Man those cable prices are tough to take seriously. But yeah I agree value is where people place it


----------



## ken6217

eee1111 said:


> I get it
> 
> You’re totally right. Hell I even own expensive gear myself. But the cables. Man those cable prices are tough to take seriously. But yeah I agree value is where people place it


Or to take it a step further, my Harley is completely black in the engine. Of course none of the bolts on the bike are because they sell kits black bolt so you can buy them and swap them out. Came out to like 8 bucks a bolt. I said to the guy at the parts counter that it was crazy. He said only if you buy it. The only thing crazier than that was that I spent $650 on a torque wrench.


----------



## simorag

Marco_tam said:


> How's it going with the Taiko Extreme pairing with the AB-1266 TC so far? Is it a match in heaven?



Indeed it is, the AB-1266 has always scaled up very nicely with any of my system upgrades over the years, making the subtle ones easier to understand and the major ones (like the arrival of the Extreme) very apparent and satisfying.


----------



## Litlgi74

Just you might like to see what's going on in Roon with the new filters.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Like an addict, I've built up a tolerance to TC bass.  It's not enough anymore.  I put a low shelf on to bring about more bass, and it worked for a little bit and for some albums, but it distorted a bit.  I think I'll buy those filters next week.  Maybe they'll give me more bass goodness.  I need a dedicated, soundproof listening room for speakers and a sub.  Some day perhaps


----------



## leftside

Litlgi74 said:


> Just you might like to see what's going on in Roon with the new filters.


I was out mountain biking all day today, but tomorrow is “rest day” and I’ll for sure be trying out these filters in Roon as well.


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> Like an addict, I've built up a tolerance to TC bass.  It's not enough anymore.  I put a low shelf on to bring about more bass, and it worked for a little bit and for some albums, but it distorted a bit.  I think I'll buy those filters next week.  Maybe they'll give me more bass goodness.  I need a dedicated, soundproof listening room for speakers and a sub.  Some day perhaps


more bass ?....damn you hardcore lol


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> Like an addict, I've built up a tolerance to TC bass.  It's not enough anymore.  I put a low shelf on to bring about more bass, and it worked for a little bit and for some albums, but it distorted a bit.  I think I'll buy those filters next week.  Maybe they'll give me more bass goodness.  I need a dedicated, soundproof listening room for speakers and a sub.  Some day perhaps


That is simply crazy. You are an addict. You definitely need to move to speakers. LOL


----------



## Litlgi74

Ciggavelli said:


> Like an addict, I've built up a tolerance to TC bass.  It's not enough anymore.  I put a low shelf on to bring about more bass, and it worked for a little bit and for some albums, but it distorted a bit.  I think I'll buy those filters next week.  Maybe they'll give me more bass goodness.  I need a dedicated, soundproof listening room for speakers and a sub.  Some day perhaps


Time for a Tactile Transducer!


----------



## jlbrach

paradoxper said:


> That is simply crazy. You are an addict. You definitely need to move to speakers. LOL


interestingly I love the TC bass but sometimes I find it a bit overpowering....go figure different strokes for different folks


----------



## Ciggavelli

I found some really, really heavy metal 







🤘


----------



## leftside

Ciggavelli said:


> I found some really, really heavy metal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Music is ok. I guess the vocals are an acquired taste


----------



## leftside

leftside said:


> I was out mountain biking all day today, but tomorrow is “rest day” and I’ll for sure be trying out these filters in Roon as well.





Litlgi74 said:


> Just you might like to see what's going on in Roon with the new filters.


I'm really liking these filters. Three sets are supplied: "Neutral", "Bass" and "Bass + Treble". I prefer "Neutral". The "Neutral" sound seems to be a little more forward, punchy and fun. "Bass" is a little more laid-back, but could be very good for late night listening sessions. I'll keep experimenting this evening and night. Tried a few different types of music from Dire Straits DSD releases, Rolling Stones ABKCO/DSD releases to warehouse style hard techno. Also some industrial and heavy metal like NIN, Ministry and Motorhead, and trip-hop like Massive Attack. Great with all.


----------



## Ciggavelli

leftside said:


> I'm really liking these filters. Three sets are supplied: "Neutral", "Bass" and "Bass + Treble". I prefer "Neutral". The "Neutral" sound seems to be a little more forward, punchy and fun. "Bass" is a little more laid-back, but could be very good for late night listening sessions. I'll keep experimenting this evening and night. Tried a few different types of music from Dire Straits DSD releases, Rolling Stones ABKCO/DSD releases to warehouse style hard techno. Also some industrial and heavy metal like NIN, Ministry and Motorhead, and trip-hop like Massive Attack. Great with all.


Does the bass filter increase bass quantity?


----------



## jlbrach

shame there isnt a HP that only plays bass lol


----------



## leftside

Ciggavelli said:


> Does the bass filter increase bass quantity?


It does.


----------



## Litlgi74

I know you're a bass addict... But more importantly... The bass gets smoothed out... And it's a noticeable change. It's very clean sounding... Peaks and valleys eliminated.


----------



## Litlgi74

leftside said:


> I'm really liking these filters. Three sets are supplied: "Neutral", "Bass" and "Bass + Treble". I prefer "Neutral". The "Neutral" sound seems to be a little more forward, punchy and fun. "Bass" is a little more laid-back, but could be very good for late night listening sessions. I'll keep experimenting this evening and night. Tried a few different types of music from Dire Straits DSD releases, Rolling Stones ABKCO/DSD releases to warehouse style hard techno. Also some industrial and heavy metal like NIN, Ministry and Motorhead, and trip-hop like Massive Attack. Great with all.





leftside said:


> It does.



Did you notice the sea shell like sound in the before filter sound?


----------



## leftside

Litlgi74 said:


> Did you notice the sea shell like sound in the before filter sound?


I’m just going to stick with the Neutral filters for a week or so, and then switch back to see if I notice.


----------



## yagislav (Mar 29, 2022)

Where did you guys find the files for the filters? I want to try out the bass one for sure with the 1266 TC


----------



## Litlgi74 (Mar 29, 2022)

yagislav said:


> Where did you guys find the files for the filters? I want to try out the bass one for sure with the 1266 TC


Mitch gave me permission to upload some demos for those who may be interested in his filters.

You'll be able to instantly and seamlessly compare the filters on the tracks that I've reviewed...

Just need a day or two to get it ready.


----------



## yagislav

Anybody looking to sell a XLR to speaker taps adapter pls let me know!


----------



## mitchb

I find these headphones the only headphones I need. These are the best sounding headphones I have ever heard. I have them connected to a Niimbus amp with a Danacable Lazuli Nirvana cable and I have a modded Directstream dac going to the Niimbus. I am getting some good sound.


----------



## sloomingbla

What’s the consensus on best 6-8k$ amp for the 1266? Obviously there’s the formula s + powerman, or there’s the nimbus. What others? Any with an extra warm or bassy signature? (I love me some bass, and I also love me some warmth).

I’m partially wondering if I should just go with the ican pro considering it has the bass boost + tube hybrid options, but the wise man inside of me tells me I’ll be happier with a higher quality amp overall


----------



## DJJEZ

sloomingbla said:


> What’s the consensus on best 6-8k$ amp for the 1266? Obviously there’s the formula s + powerman, or there’s the nimbus. What others? Any with an extra warm or bassy signature? (I love me some bass, and I also love me some warmth).
> 
> I’m partially wondering if I should just go with the ican pro considering it has the bass boost + tube hybrid options, but the wise man inside of me tells me I’ll be happier with a higher quality amp overall


The Woo Audio WA33 if you can stretch to $8500


----------



## Arniesb

sloomingbla said:


> What’s the consensus on best 6-8k$ amp for the 1266? Obviously there’s the formula s + powerman, or there’s the nimbus. What others? Any with an extra warm or bassy signature? (I love me some bass, and I also love me some warmth).
> 
> I’m partially wondering if I should just go with the ican pro considering it has the bass boost + tube hybrid options, but the wise man inside of me tells me I’ll be happier with a higher quality amp overall


Niimbus looks most serious by far.
Build quality is phenomenal, great specs, amazing wollume control, massive power reserves and every part in that amp is of highest quality.
Didnt heard it, but on paper it doesnt have any weakness.


----------



## sloomingbla

DJJEZ said:


> The Woo Audio WA33 if you can stretch to $8500


I've been thinking about the wa33, but I'm hesitant to buy the standard edition, as I've heard it's pretty good but not incredible. The elite jps version on the other hand has gotten pretty rave reviews and is my target end game, but it's gonna be a while before I can afford that, haha. I figure solid state is probably the way to go at this lower price range


----------



## Frankie D

sloomingbla said:


> I've been thinking about the wa33, but I'm hesitant to buy the standard edition, as I've heard it's pretty good but not incredible. The elite jps version on the other hand has gotten pretty rave reviews and is my target end game, but it's gonna be a while before I can afford that, haha. I figure solid state is probably the way to go at this lower price range


I hear you, but for me the best sound at CanJam NY was the standard WA33 connected to the 1266.  A few other folks I know as well. Maybe there is an upgrade option to make it elite down the road?


----------



## leftside

sloomingbla said:


> What’s the consensus on best 6-8k$ amp for the 1266? Obviously there’s the formula s + powerman, or there’s the nimbus. What others? Any with an extra warm or bassy signature? (I love me some bass, and I also love me some warmth).
> 
> I’m partially wondering if I should just go with the ican pro considering it has the bass boost + tube hybrid options, but the wise man inside of me tells me I’ll be happier with a higher quality amp overall


Off the shelf, or would you consider a custom build? There are some good builders on here.


----------



## sloomingbla (Mar 30, 2022)

leftside said:


> Off the shelf, or would you consider a custom build? There are some good builders on here.


That's definitely an idea..

I'm not sure where to start with that, but I've heard some very promising things


----------



## DJJEZ

Frankie D said:


> I hear you, but for me the best sound at CanJam NY was the standard WA33 connected to the 1266.  A few other folks I know as well. Maybe there is an upgrade option to make it elite down the road?


I don't think it's possible to upgrade a standard WA33 to an elite later. @Ciggavelli


----------



## Ciggavelli (Mar 30, 2022)

DJJEZ said:


> I don't think it's possible to upgrade a standard WA33 to an elite later. @Ciggavelli


No, it’s not possible due to the wiring, upgraded transformers, etc., but you can trade in the standard for $4000 to be used toward the elite. One might be able to sell it used for more though.


----------



## Litlgi74

Sorry guys... 

I am going to need another day or two... Life has gotten in the way if my plans. Thanks for your patience.


----------



## paradoxper

sloomingbla said:


> What’s the consensus on best 6-8k$ amp for the 1266? Obviously there’s the formula s + powerman, or there’s the nimbus. What others? Any with an extra warm or bassy signature? (I love me some bass, and I also love me some warmth).
> 
> I’m partially wondering if I should just go with the ican pro considering it has the bass boost + tube hybrid options, but the wise man inside of me tells me I’ll be happier with a higher quality amp overall


Stretch to the Primavera aside from the Stellaris (doesn't offer optimal power), you won't find another amp that can compete.


If you consider solid state, the CFA3 is a prized candidate although 13R, Niimbus, OOR are also good choices which I'd pass on in favor of more accomplished speaker amplification.

Ideals: pursue CFA3, AHB2 mono (clean and powerful SS) and complement with a tube pre. I favor Freya with a very particular tube but also had great success with a few that offered more limited performance ultimately but wider tube rolling selection such as EVO 400, Supratek Cabernet, Cary SLP-98.

This really is the sweet spot for flexibility.

But really go for the Primavera.


----------



## Darkliner (Mar 30, 2022)

Post deleted because of wrong content


----------



## Darkliner

sloomingbla said:


> I've been thinking about the wa33, but I'm hesitant to buy the standard edition, as I've heard it's pretty good but not incredible. The elite jps version on the other hand has gotten pretty rave reviews and is my target end game, but it's gonna be a while before I can afford that, haha. I figure solid state is probably the way to go at this lower price range



wa33 standard with abyss is fantastic.  Sure the wa33 elite is even better. But make no mistake, wa33 standard is a fantastic amp as well and can bring about some incredible sound quality.


----------



## sloomingbla

paradoxper said:


> Stretch to the Primavera aside from the Stellaris (doesn't offer optimal power), you won't find another amp that can compete.
> 
> 
> If you consider solid state, the CFA3 is a prized candidate although 13R, Niimbus, OOR are also good choices which I'd pass on in favor of more accomplished speaker amplification.
> ...


Oooooh. Another possible end game tube eh? Anyone compare this to the wa33/elite? Certainly pretty looking, and if it's as good as the wa33 elite I might be able to save a pretty penny. 

Lots of options to delve into, much appreciated!


----------



## Ciggavelli (Mar 30, 2022)

So, I got the new TC filters.  The neutral one addresses some of the complaints about recessed mids.  It makes guitars and things like that a bit more prominent.  The bass filter does increase bass quantity, but it's more subtle.  I'm able to listen to rap albums with more bass at a lower volume level, and I'm happy with the bass quantity (which is good for my ears).  I'm not really sure about the treble extension one, but that could be due to the music I listen to. 

The filters are definitely more subtle than the SR1a ones, but I'm happy with the purchase.  I think people will really like the neutral one, and bassheads like me will like the bass one.  Maybe trebleheads will like the treble + bass one, but I'm not a treblehead, so I can't really speak to that.  While pretty expensive at $375, it is cheaper than doing a component upgrade, and the filters do a better job than anything I can achieve in Roon EQ, and the added benefits do not take away from the rest of the spectrum (which I found to be the case with my personal EQ setting)

Edit: I tried some additional metal albums and the bass filter is actually more apparent than I first thought.  Not night and day, but noticeable.  I like it 🤘


----------



## Slim1970

Ciggavelli said:


> So, I got the new TC filters.  The neutral one addresses some of the complaints about recessed mids.  It makes guitars and things like that a bit more prominent.  The bass filter does increase bass quantity, but it's more subtle.  I'm able to listen to rap albums with more bass at a lower volume level, and I'm happy with the bass quantity (which is good for my ears).  I'm not really sure about the treble extension one, but that could be due to the music I listen to.
> 
> The filters are definitely more subtle than the SR1a ones, but I'm happy with the purchase.  I think people will really like the neutral one, and bassheads like me will like the bass one.  Maybe trebleheads will like the treble + bass one, but I'm not a treblehead, so I can't really speak to that.  While pretty expensive at $375, it is cheaper than doing a component upgrade, and the filters do a better job than anything I can achieve in Roon EQ, and the added benefits do not take away from the rest of the spectrum (which I found to be the case with my personal EQ setting)
> 
> Edit: I tried some additional metal albums and the bass filter is actually more apparent than I first thought.  Not night and day, but noticeable.  I like it 🤘


Can you show how they are applied? Do they sit underneath the ear pads?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Slim1970 said:


> Can you show how they are applied? Do they sit underneath the ear pads?


Nah, I mean those filters from Mitch

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...b1266-φ-tc-headphones-to-another-level-r1091/


----------



## Ciggavelli

With the bass filter, the bass is noticeably better with acoustic music.  I've never heard each individual pluck so clearly before 🙀


----------



## Ciggavelli

The more I listen to these filters, the more that gets revealed...lol.  Everything sounds so "clean" for lack of a better word.  If the TC was a little messy before (and I didn't really think it was), it is much cleaner now.  Everything is sparkling with crystal clear imaging and spatial location.  It's kinda crazy actually now hearing these for the past few hours.  It definitely brings a new flavor to the TCs that I could see working much better for some genres.  I don't listen to classical, but I could see people really into that genre loving these filters.  

I'm going to give them a solid recommendation



Spoiler



I'll stop spamming the thread about the filters now...


----------



## Litlgi74

Ciggavelli said:


> The more I listen to these filters, the more that gets revealed...lol.  Everything sounds so "clean" for lack of a better word.  If the TC was a little messy before (and I didn't really think it was), it is much cleaner now.  Everything is sparkling with crystal clear imaging and spatial location.  It's kinda crazy actually now hearing these for the past few hours.  It definitely brings a new flavor to the TCs that I could see working much better for some genres.  I don't listen to classical, but I could see people really into that genre loving these filters.
> 
> I'm going to give them a solid recommendation
> 
> ...


They only get better with burn in. 

Just kidding... Glad you are enjoying them... Me too!


----------



## joseph69

sloomingbla said:


> I've been thinking about the wa33, but I'm hesitant to buy the standard edition, as I've heard it's pretty good but not incredible.


Yeah, I'd definitely listen to "what I've heard" instead of listening to it for myself because it's definitely only pretty good.



Darkliner said:


> But make no mistake, wa33 standard is a fantastic amp as well and can bring about some incredible sound quality.


+1 all day long!


----------



## leftside

Ciggavelli said:


> So, I got the new TC filters.  The neutral one addresses some of the complaints about recessed mids.  It makes guitars and things like that a bit more prominent.  The bass filter does increase bass quantity, but it's more subtle.  I'm able to listen to rap albums with more bass at a lower volume level, and I'm happy with the bass quantity (which is good for my ears).  I'm not really sure about the treble extension one, but that could be due to the music I listen to.
> 
> The filters are definitely more subtle than the SR1a ones, but I'm happy with the purchase.  I think people will really like the neutral one, and bassheads like me will like the bass one.  Maybe trebleheads will like the treble + bass one, but I'm not a treblehead, so I can't really speak to that.  While pretty expensive at $375, it is cheaper than doing a component upgrade, and the filters do a better job than anything I can achieve in Roon EQ, and the added benefits do not take away from the rest of the spectrum (which I found to be the case with my personal EQ setting)
> 
> Edit: I tried some additional metal albums and the bass filter is actually more apparent than I first thought.  Not night and day, but noticeable.  I like it 🤘


Very similar thoughts to mine.


----------



## sloomingbla

joseph69 said:


> Yeah, I'd definitely listen to "what I've heard" instead of listening to it for myself because it's definitely only pretty good.
> 
> 
> +1 all day long!


I’m happy to hear more positive reports! At the end of the day without auditioning I only have “what I’ve heard” to go off of 🤷‍♂️

It’s very clear that it is still an excellent amp - my logic is as follows. Nearly every other tube amp that goes for less, people seem to have one or two issues with it unless they spend extra on upgrades, and compare less favorably to ss amps around the same price.

I’ve seen many reports of people preferring a similarly priced or even cheaper ss amps to the wa33 standard, but very few when compared to the elite. All amps in this price bracket are still incredible, of course.

So my guess is I’d be getting less for my money going tubed - but as someone who still loves tubes, if I was gonna go I might as well go all the way to elite right?

^ and these are also only generalizations based off of skimming a bunch of forums and reviews. Not trying to convince anyone they made a bad purchase


----------



## smodtactical

https://aacollective.wordpress.com/2022/03/30/abyss-1266-phi-tc/

Damn brutal review

"*Sound*
So was it worth it?
Absolutely not.
I don’t understand this headphone.
The kindest way I can describe this headphone is, “Differing levels of high schooler’s home-brew speaker system in their 2003 Honda Civic.”
With as little air gap as possible, it sounds kind of like a bad stock car stereo with the bass set to flat
With full air gap, it sounds like someone _only_ plugged in the sub in their car
With some air gap, it sounds like that person realized they forgot to plug in the rest of the wires.
I was so ready to buy this headphone from the owner that lent these to me. I wanted a headphone for EDM music that had some elevated bass and wasn’t as mid-deficient as my LCD4. But wow, I struggle to give this headphone any legitimate compliments. "


----------



## ra990 (Mar 31, 2022)

smodtactical said:


> https://aacollective.wordpress.com/2022/03/30/abyss-1266-phi-tc/
> 
> Damn brutal review
> 
> ...


Ridiculous, but whatever. They're not for him.

"I’m not enamored with my LCD4, but comparing it back to back with the TC reveals so many flaws that unless you are really looking for that lo-fi, high school crappy car stereo experience and are willing to pay through the nose for that, this headphone makes no sense. This is a headphone whose hype I can only imagine still holds true because of how difficult it is to get a good demo of them and cost of entry forces purchase justification to fester into cognitive dissonance."

I mean they're not like other headphones, yes, that's why we love them. They're different and don't measure like other headphones are expected to. But that also makes them more fun than any other headphone. I would hate it if every high end headphone strived to sound exactly the same target. That would be boring, the opposite of the Abyss 1266 TC.


----------



## jaboki

smodtactical said:


> https://aacollective.wordpress.com/2022/03/30/abyss-1266-phi-tc/
> 
> Damn brutal review
> 
> ...


I think the review is entertaining and hilarious.


----------



## mitchb

I love these headphones! They render my other high end headphones unnecessary.


----------



## ra990

mitchb said:


> I love these headphones! They render my other high end headphones unnecessary.


I love them too, but they could never be my only high end headphone. If I had to pick one and only one, it would be the Susvara. But, if I can have two, then the Abyss will definitely be one of those two. Currently I have the DCA stealth for when I want a more neutral tuning with perfect harman target matching. Then I have the Abyss that shows a middle finger to the harman target and does it's own thing. Led Zeppelin sounds amazing on the Abyss and Miles Davis is stunning well with the Stealth. It's fun having choices and different sound signatures to choose from based on the music.


----------



## mitchb

ra990 said:


> I love them too, but they could never be my only high end headphone. If I had to pick one and only one, it would be the Susvara. But, if I can have two, then the Abyss will definitely be one of those two. Currently I have the DCA stealth for when I want a more neutral tuning with perfect harman target matching. Then I have the Abyss that shows a middle finger to the harman target and does it's own thing. Led Zeppelin sounds amazing on the Abyss and Miles Davis is stunning well with the Stealth. It's fun having choices and different sound signatures to choose from based on the music.


I find that they satisfy. I am a diehard Audeze fan and have been since 2010 with LCD2 Rev1 and I now still enjoy my LCD4 headphones occasionally but I find that the TC’s seem to be satisfying for any music I may listen to. I have not tried the LCD5’s and I don’t have the itch to.


----------



## Litlgi74 (Mar 31, 2022)

Ok... here you go.

You will need Audacity: https://www.audacityteam.org/download/

... and a way to hook your Abyss TCs to your computer... preferably with a separate DAC and amp.

Download demo files here: the files may need to be unzipped after download https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1szl_tG9iiXeQqjuwwlhSHwkG9qOVsFxG

Open the files (one at a time) with Audacity...

Click "View" on the toolbar and choose "Mixer Board"






Click the "Solo" button on "Bypass" Filters, starting from the left: Bypass, Neutral, Bass Ext, and Bass & Treble Ext.

Click the Green Play button...



Then click the individual solo buttons in the "Mixer Board" to instantly and seamlessly switch between filters.

PS... I am not being paid or compensated by Accurate Sound in any way.

PSS. Let me know if you hear what I heard in my review... https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...b1266-φ-tc-headphones-to-another-level-r1091/

Enjoy.


----------



## listenerwww (Mar 31, 2022)

smodtactical said:


> https://aacollective.wordpress.com/2022/03/30/abyss-1266-phi-tc/
> 
> Damn brutal review
> 
> ...


Oh wow, a reviewer that actually has standards. Probably the only 1266TC review not completely fueled by the need for the reviewer to validate their own purchase because they spent way too much on something bad or maintain a positive relationship w Abyss for business reasons.


----------



## F208Frank

listenerwww said:


> Oh wow, a reviewer that actually has standards. Probably the only 1266TC review not completely fueled by the need for the reviewer to validate their own purchase because they spent way too much on something bad or maintain a positive relationship w Abyss for business reasons.


My standards are high but I like the TC. Lol.


----------



## listenerwww

F208Frank said:


> My standards are high but I like the TC. Lol.


🧢


----------



## paradoxper

mitchb said:


> I love these headphones! They render my other high end headphones unnecessary.


Nods. I just don't listen to much else. It's kind of crazy.


----------



## leftside

mitchb said:


> I find that they satisfy. I am a diehard Audeze fan and have been since 2010 with LCD2 Rev1 and I now still enjoy my LCD4 headphones occasionally but I find that the TC’s seem to be satisfying for any music I may listen to. I have not tried the LCD5’s and I don’t have the itch to.


Exactly the same here. I've kept the LCD4 and still use them, but definitely use the Abyss more. Took me about a week tho to get the Abyss "right". They are definitely not your usual headphones, and from the review from above the guy obviously didn't know what he was doing, or maybe he was using his flip phone to drive them?


----------



## galacticsoap (Mar 31, 2022)

listenerwww said:


> Oh wow, a reviewer that actually has standards. Probably the only 1266TC review not completely fueled by the need for the reviewer to validate their own purchase because they spent way too much on something bad or maintain a positive relationship w Abyss for business reasons.



Can I just clarify, in your view anyone/everyone who has asserted/recounted a positive experience of the 1266TC is because they either:

a) Don't have "standards"? or
b) Need to validate the cost of Abyss? or
c) Have a commercial relationship with? Abyss

That's quite the hot take...


----------



## Bonddam

I'd like to inspect the driver's on a used set. which side can I remove without magnets falling out?


----------



## paradoxper

galacticsoap said:


> Can I just clarify, in your view anyone/everyone who has asserted/recounted a positive experience of the 1266TC is because they either:
> 
> a) Don't have "standards"? or
> b) Need to validate the cost of Abyss? or
> ...


His take is obsolete. Love ya, @Joe Skubinski


----------



## Bonddam

galacticsoap said:


> Can I just clarify, in your view anyone/everyone who has asserted/recounted a positive experience of the 1266TC is because they either:
> 
> a) Don't have "standards"? or
> b) Need to validate the cost of Abyss? or
> ...


I validate my addiction with 6 under my belt. Price has not fixed my issues. Not my fault they sound good. I love that they look weird. I love that bass isn't like other headphones. 

Joe can hate my guts and I'll still buy his stuff. If his sound turns crap then yes I'll stop 

 I do need a new women to validate me as the last one totally crapped me into the abyss of black mold. 

People crap on something as it might be what rich people buy. I remember the Russian Mafia guy at Valley Forge entering the baracks and bragging about his $700 Versace pants(fancy jeans). That guy makes license plates at the federal pen now. He would be the example of what people would think of the type of people that buy Abyss headphones. So they have to find Abyss to be Gucci of headphones and create a deep resentment towards it. Unless we as a whole have really bad hearing.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> Nods. I just don't listen to much else. It's kind of crazy.


Send me your Valkyria then 😁


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Send me your Valkyria then 😁


I'll trade you for some MELZ. 🤣


----------



## Ruddy1

Bonddam said:


> I'd like to inspect the driver's on a used set. which side can I remove without magnets falling out?


You can remove any side without falling out of the magnet
The unit of og and the diaphragm of TC are different in length


----------



## Ruddy1

I use the most primitive early 1266 because I think TC sound is very bad


----------



## Ciggavelli

Ruddy1 said:


> I use the most primitive early 1266 because I think TC sound is very bad


If TC sounds is very bad, what is very good?


----------



## Ruddy1

The earlier 1266 is, the better. Phi is the best, TC is only better than CC, and CC is the worst 1266


----------



## Ruddy1

I tried to replace Phi's earmuffs with TC, and the sound was obviously better. The new breathable earmuffs failed
When Phi replaces TC's new earmuffs, the sound will become worse


----------



## Ciggavelli

Ruddy1 said:


> The earlier 1266 is, the better. Phi is the best, TC is only better than CC, and CC is the worst 1266


I mean what other headphones do you like?  I’m interested in that context


----------



## Ruddy1

Ciggavelli said:


> I mean what other headphones do you like?  I’m interested in that context


I only like 1266. I mean, I just don't like 1266tc


----------



## jlbrach

smodtactical said:


> https://aacollective.wordpress.com/2022/03/30/abyss-1266-phi-tc/
> 
> Damn brutal review
> 
> ...


silly nonsense


----------



## galacticsoap

Ruddy1 said:


> I only like 1266. I mean, I just don't like 1266tc



*SIGH*

The mind boggles


----------



## ra990 (Mar 31, 2022)

Ruddy1 said:


> The earlier 1266 is, the better. Phi is the best, TC is only better than CC, and CC is the worst 1266


CC was just a cosmetic change over the Phi, do you mean with the new CC earpads? There was no driver changes between Phi and CC. I have owned every iteration of the 1266, the TC is the most refined version of them. Less bombastic than the original but also more controlled in bass and treble. One thing I will note is that I think imaging took a slight hit with the CC pads. I think I wrote about that on this thread when I first got them.


----------



## Ruddy1

smodtactical said:


> https://aacollective.wordpress.com/2022/03/30/abyss-1266-phi-tc/
> 
> Damn brutal review
> 
> ...


He's right. TC is indeed like this. I don't understand that Joe clearly makes the sound so natural and true on og and phi, but TC is abnormal. What else does it have besides ultra-high solution? Is analytical power so important that it needs to give up the natural sound and become a false sound?


----------



## Ruddy1

ra990 said:


> CC was just a cosmetic change over the Phi, do you mean with the new CC earpads? There was no driver changes between Phi and CC. I have owned every iteration of the 1266, the TC is the most refined version of them. Less bombastic than the original but also more controlled in bass and treble. One thing I will note is that I think imaging took a slight hit with the CC pads. I think I wrote about that on this thread when I first got them.


Yes, I mean when CC headphones are replaced with old ear pads instead of CC ear pads, the sound will become normal!
And TC it is indeed the most exquisite 1266, but it has lost its musicality. Musicality is more important than anything!


----------



## Ruddy1

galacticsoap said:


> *SIGH*
> 
> The mind boggles


You're very smart


----------



## ra990

Ruddy1 said:


> Yes, I mean when CC headphones are replaced with old ear pads instead of CC ear pads, the sound will become normal!
> And TC it is indeed the most exquisite 1266, but it has lost its musicality. Musicality is more important than anything!


I think we're in agreement on the CC ear pads. There was a transitionary period between the Phi and CC versions where I had both and was able to swap the earpads. The old earpads sounded better to me, but the new ear pads made fitment on the head easier and were more comfortable. The old ear pads had noticeably better sound staging and imaging from what I recall. I figured I was just having trouble getting used to the new ones because nobody else seemed to notice that.


----------



## Ruddy1

ra990 said:


> I think we're in agreement on the CC ear pads. There was a transitionary period between the Phi and CC versions where I had both and was able to swap the earpads. The old earpads sounded better to me, but the new ear pads made fitment on the head easier and were more comfortable. The old ear pads had noticeably better sound staging and imaging from what I recall. I figured I was just having trouble getting used to the new ones because nobody else seemed to notice that.


You're right. Many people haven't tried the difference between old ear pads and CC ear pads, so they don't know that old ear pads sound better. I even tried to replace TC with old ear pads. It's not only the sound field, but also better musicality and sounds more comfortable! But it's still not as good as phi


----------



## Bonddam

I had OG for a bit and even bought the CC pads or TC and didn’t enjoy the sound change. Bass was not as tout and treble not smooth. The first thing I didn’t like was shout and getting too loud with barely any volume.


----------



## Ruddy1

Bonddam said:


> I had OG for a bit and even bought the CC pads or TC and didn’t enjoy the sound change. Bass was not as tout and treble not smooth. The first thing I didn’t like was shout and getting too loud with barely any volume.


Now when you buy a second-hand og, you need to take it apart to see if the diaphragm is wrinkled. If it is wrinkled, do not buy it. The sound will be broken and not pleasant to hear. The aging is too serious. You need to buy an og without wrinkles


----------



## Ruddy1

Bonddam said:


> I had OG for a bit and even bought the CC pads or TC and didn’t enjoy the sound change. Bass was not as tout and treble not smooth. The first thing I didn’t like was shout and getting too loud with barely any volume.


The best 1266 is the earliest head screw with a flat head screw
It's very rare, but it's 1266 with the best sense of music


----------



## ra990

Ruddy1 said:


> The best 1266 is the earliest head screw with a flat head screw
> It's very rare, but it's 1266 with the best sense of music


Birth of a new head-fi 1266 myth.


----------



## Ruddy1

ra990 said:


> Birth of a new head-fi 1266 myth.


This conclusion has been circulating for several years
It's just that no one mentioned it on head fi


----------



## smodtactical

leftside said:


> Exactly the same here. I've kept the LCD4 and still use them, but definitely use the Abyss more. Took me about a week tho to get the Abyss "right". They are definitely not your usual headphones, and from the review from above the guy obviously didn't know what he was doing, or maybe he was using his flip phone to drive them?



He was using first watt f5 and dartzeel clone.


----------



## Ruddy1

This makes people laugh. These devices are better than those of most people in this post


----------



## Frankie D

Ruddy1 said:


> He's right. TC is indeed like this. I don't understand that Joe clearly makes the sound so natural and true on og and phi, but TC is abnormal. What else does it have besides ultra-high solution? Is analytical power so important that it needs to give up the natural sound and become a false sound?


Are you posting here just to see how many people react?  You are free to like and have your own opinion, but there are allot of listeners that feel the TC is the best available, including the ultra expensive HP’s.  At the most recent CanJam a number of us felt the 1266 on the WA33 was the best sound at the show.  

All our ears are a bit different.  I auditioned the Solitaire P and did not care for it.  It could be fit, set up, anatomy, but sometimes a HP will not be right for you.  That is okay.  There is a large choice, just try something else.  I hope you find what you really like and enjoy it.  Please feel free to let us know when you find it.  Tks.


----------



## listenerwww

galacticsoap said:


> Can I just clarify, in your view anyone/everyone who has asserted/recounted a positive experience of the 1266TC is because they either:
> 
> a) Don't have "standards"? or
> b) Need to validate the cost of Abyss? or
> ...


For politenesses sake, I'll say that instead of "no standards" it's more like "standards so far south of the people who's listening skills I respect that they only get the sun for a few hours a year."

I just can't think of how someone can find that experience satisfying, much less worth the price unless they really _really_ heavily index for the sound of a bad 2.1 system in an untreated 10x10x10 room. Even it's purported "flagship level resolution" just doesn't seem to add up. IMO it was closer to mid-tier planars like Ananda or LCD2Classic... but with enough crazily mismanaged treble to fake it for some listeners, I suppose.


----------



## listenerwww

Bonddam said:


> I validate my addiction with 6 under my belt. Price has not fixed my issues. Not my fault they sound good. I love that they look weird. I love that bass isn't like other headphones.
> 
> Joe can hate my guts and I'll still buy his stuff. If his sound turns crap then yes I'll stop
> 
> ...


I'm having a hard time parsing this but i'll try my best:

To start... it's not about price. There's tons of overpriced stuff out there, sure, but some expensive headphones are genuinely very nice sounding, if flawed. 

Utopia, despite its easily discernible faults (metallic timbre, oversharpened transients/unevenness of dynamic envelope) isn't nearly as much of a head-scratcher as 1266 is to me. Is it worth the money? IMO no, but I can very clearly understand why it would be to someone else. Susvara, which I'm really not a fan of regardless of price, at least gets tonality within the bounds of what I'd call acceptable, and I can understand why people like it.

Far be it from me to say what someone can and can't like, but do me a solid and don't assume that I'm some bitter poor person who resents expensive things for the sake of their price. I just don't like when headphones sound like a raw metal sheet in the process of being turned into a washboard... and I can't really fathom why someone would buy and ostensibly build a system around something with so many clear flaws.


----------



## ra990 (Apr 1, 2022)

listenerwww said:


> For politenesses sake, I'll say that instead of "no standards" it's more like "standards so far south of the people who's listening skills I respect that they only get the sun for a few hours a year."
> 
> I just can't think of how someone can find that experience satisfying, much less worth the price unless they really _really_ heavily index for the sound of a bad 2.1 system in an untreated 10x10x10 room. Even it's purported "flagship level resolution" just doesn't seem to add up. IMO it was closer to mid-tier planars like Ananda or LCD2Classic... but with enough crazily mismanaged treble to fake it for some listeners, I suppose.


It seems to me like you have a very narrow mind about what can be enjoyable in audio.

I've auditioned these headphone for so many who have come into my house and it's always a guaranteed ear-to-ear grin. It's not that hard to understand why so many people love these headphones. They're a lot of fun!


----------



## ra990

listenerwww said:


> Far be it from me to say what someone can and can't like, but do me a solid and don't assume that I'm some bitter poor person who resents expensive things for the sake of their price.


Conversely, please stop assuming those who enjoy this headphone do so because they bought something expensive and now can't do anything about it and have to love it. There's plenty of really expensive things I've purchased and sold because they didn't suit me. This assumption that always comes up makes no sense to me.


----------



## galacticsoap (Apr 1, 2022)

listenerwww said:


> For politenesses sake, I'll say that instead of "no standards" it's more like "standards so far south of the people who's listening skills I respect that they only get the sun for a few hours a year."
> 
> I just can't think of how someone can find that experience satisfying, much less worth the price unless they really _really_ heavily index for the sound of a bad 2.1 system in an untreated 10x10x10 room. Even it's purported "flagship level resolution" just doesn't seem to add up. IMO it was closer to mid-tier planars like Ananda or LCD2Classic... but with enough crazily mismanaged treble to fake it for some listeners, I suppose.



You're entitled to your views, of course, it's an internet forum and we're talking about headphones. Given the societal decay occurring around the world at the moment, your views on a headphone aren't going to keep me up at night.

What  I do find concerning is how overtly combative and acerbic you seem to be. In both of your posts, you make assumptions about others, then seek to deploy an undeniably confrontational tone...at people, discussing a headphone. You then go as far as to mete out insults to people who seem to be minding their own business and connecting on something that gives them satisfaction. That's a worry. Not a worry for me, but a marker that points to a far more complex neurotic malaise you seem to be grappling with.

When I see these sort of scorched earth posts on internet forums that discuss relatively mundane and niche topics as a hobby, my heart goes out to who ever it is that sits behind these comments.

I truly hope you're either young and naive, and finding your way in the world. Where in time you'll develop the cognitive ability to hold two diametrically opposed perspectives in the one thought pattern without resorting to confronting people. You can be right, but others needn't be wrong. This is a sign of maturity.

If you aren't young, I hope you're getting the help and support that you need. Please take care.


----------



## deuter (Apr 1, 2022)

ra990 said:


> CC was just a cosmetic change over the Phi, do you mean with the new CC earpads? There was no driver changes between Phi and CC. I have owned every iteration of the 1266, the TC is the most refined version of them. Less bombastic than the original but also more controlled in bass and treble. One thing I will note is that I think imaging took a slight hit with the CC pads. I think I wrote about that on this thread when I first got them.


The more I read such comments the more Iam scared to let go my OG.
Almost seems that I will pay almost 3 times what I paid for the OG secondhand only to get a downgrade in sound going to TC.
The bass is what I really enjoy with the 1266 and I so don’t want to loose or reduce it’s visceral feel.


----------



## Ruddy1

Frankie D said:


> Are you posting here just to see how many people react?  You are free to like and have your own opinion, but there are allot of listeners that feel the TC is the best available, including the ultra expensive HP’s.  At the most recent CanJam a number of us felt the 1266 on the WA33 was the best sound at the show.
> 
> All our ears are a bit different.  I auditioned the Solitaire P and did not care for it.  It could be fit, set up, anatomy, but sometimes a HP will not be right for you.  That is okay.  There is a large choice, just try something else.  I hope you find what you really like and enjoy it.  Please feel free to let us know when you find it.  Tks.


So when I put forward this view, there are many people here who think the same as me, don't they?


----------



## paradoxper

ra990 said:


> It seems to me like you have a very narrow mind about what can be enjoyable in audio.
> 
> I've auditioned these headphone for so many who have come into my house and it's always a guaranteed ear-to-ear grin. It's not that hard to understand why so many people love these headphones. They're a lot of fun!


Listening preference aside, It's clear to question this listener's acuity as some characteristics are blatantly obvious. It would be like someone claiming an 009 sounded slow, muddy and veiled -- time to completely disregard the experience and move on to those experiences with rational supporting context.


----------



## Frankie D

Ruddy1 said:


> So when I put forward this view, there are many people here who think the same as me, don't they?


Not that I have read.


----------



## listenerwww (Apr 1, 2022)

galacticsoap said:


> You're entitled to your views, of course, it's an internet forum and we're talking about headphones. Given the societal decay occurring around the world at the moment, your views on a headphone aren't going to keep me up at night.
> 
> What  I do find concerning is how overtly combative and acerbic you seem to be. In both of your posts, you make assumptions about others, then seek to deploy an undeniably confrontational tone...at people, discussing a headphone. You then go as far as to mete out insults to people who seem to be minding their own business and connecting on something that gives them satisfaction. That's a worry. Not a worry for me, but a marker that points to a far more complex neurotic malaise you seem to be grappling with.
> 
> ...


It was not my intent to offend anyone. I criticized a product. Despite my wording being acerbic, I wish nobody ill. Audio is a passion, and with that passion other emotions are bound to enter the ring... but your use of emotionless, analytical, "adult" language doesn't make your armchair diagnosis, erroneous reading of the content of my posts, and minimization of very real criticisms _in any way better. _It's arguably worse, actually.

_I_ didn't decide to flippantly call anyone cognitively impaired, naive, or immature. I didn't even call anyone deaf, and this is *Head-Fi! *

All I said is that _in my view_ most of what seems to be fueling the 1266 love is:

*-A lack of standards rooted in lack of ear training, comparative tests, references, and experience:* You may say this is an assumption, but I've yet to encounter a situation where someone's fulfillment of the rubric for what is ultimately my trust and belief in them isn't _almost immediately_ apparent in reading/hearing their impressions. (Note: Admittedly, only after having spent a good amount of time myself in the hobby do I know how to parse the signal from the noise.)

*-Sunk cost/purchase validation:* There is literally no way to deny this in good faith. People are bound to defend their purchases from a place of emotional denial instead of brutal honesty. It happens all the time. I'm certainly guilty of it at times. Hell... _Even the owner of the exact 1266TC unit reviewed in Ish's (and Resolve's, for that matter) review_ admits that they did, in fact, defend 1266 in an effort to do this... or as we call it in certain circles, in an effort to "cope."

*-Needing to keep a positive relationship with Abyss:* Their history with reviewers in particular speaks for itself, but there is other information out there (even spoken about in this thread) that would illustrate why one would want to shy away from criticizing Abyss products too much. If you want hard info/sources, feel free to DM me.

You say I insulted people, and I don't know if you mean a person in particular, because I don't think I did. I did angrily and perhaps impertinently state a discontent in the abstract about people in the hobby not being understandable or believable based on the reasons above, but just because my experience differs *so* wildly in a way that's hard to even reconcile re: 1266TC.

If you read again you'll notice, the common thread through all of this is not me insulting anyone, or even just saying my thoughts on what fuels the 1266 love... but also that _I truly do not and cannot understand how someone can love 1266 so deeply when it sounds the way it does and it costs as much as it costs... _

...other than the 3 reasons I've mentioned, of course.

I've not attacked anyone, all i've done is _criticized a product as well as the hobby as a whole _and stated my absolute confusion at how 1266 could be so passionately defended.

If you want to criticize my tone, fine. I could be better at trying to get things across neatly and effectively in text, I admit that. Passions run high in this hobby for me, I care about it a lot. I could and should do better. I do try.

*But you are the one that decided to escalate this from talking about (admittedly) strong opinions and confusion about audio peripherals and the surrounding hobby... to diagnosing someone through a screen as cognitively deficient and in need of psychological intervention.*

I might call people out on not backing up their hard-to-grasp takes in a way that meets my, frankly, high standards of believability, but I'd *never* do that, dude. That's like... *very* serious. Nowhere near as innocuous or free of consequence as headphones. And fwiw man, I don't seem to be having trouble managing cognitive dissonance or anything, I've been pretty consistent. You are the one grasping at what is actually a gravely serious straw in an effort to minimize or rug-sweep my very real criticisms of the product and the hobby (criticisms that neither of which are held by me alone).

But hey... Your escalating into condescension, thinly veiled under the guise of false compassion or care for my well-being, is noted, dude.

I'm not talking about this anymore. Read Ish's review if you want a salient take I agree with, because you won't find it most other places.


----------



## Bonddam

listenerwww said:


> I'm having a hard time parsing this but i'll try my best:
> 
> To start... it's not about price. There's tons of overpriced stuff out there, sure, but some expensive headphones are genuinely very nice sounding, if flawed.
> 
> ...


My Russian mob guy in the story was the rich guy not me. Bitter you could say if I was the rich guy. I don't make 6 figures but I do invest. 

By chance are you a Sharur follower. That's the kid who think that Eytomotic iem is the only thing you should buy because the frequency graph. 

You do come across bitter.


----------



## galacticsoap (Apr 1, 2022)

listenerwww said:


> It was not my intent to offend anyone. I criticized a product. Despite my wording being acerbic, I wish nobody ill. Audio is a passion, and with that passion other emotions are bound to enter the ring... but your use of emotionless, analytical, "adult" language doesn't make your armchair diagnosis, erroneous reading of the content of my posts, and minimization of very real criticisms _in any way better. _It's arguably worse, actually.
> 
> _I_ didn't decide to flippantly call anyone cognitively impaired, naive, or immature. I didn't even call anyone deaf, and this is *Head-Fi! *
> 
> ...



Mate, I wasn't diagnosing you as cognitively deficient.

You're clearly articulate and intelligent.

I do though, see a disconcerting level of frustration and discontent in your posts.

You can read my intent as you will, but I stand by my posts. If anything, your response only reinforces my original point.

Compassion is not something I convey, under any guise, in some juvenile arbitrary game of one-upmanship. Internet posts don't elicit that sort of Machiavellian behaviour in me.

You don't seem happy. I genuinely hope you're okay.


----------



## listenerwww

galacticsoap said:


> Mate, I wasn't diagnosing you as cognitively deficient.
> 
> You're clearly articulate and intelligent.
> 
> ...


I’ll take you at your word, then.

&I’m fine, mate, truly. Just remembering why I never post here even though I’ve had an account for more than 10 years.


----------



## ra990

If you don't like a headphone, fine. But to go on and claim that those that do are either stupid and don't know what good sound is, or are stuck to their purchase bc of the price, or are shills for the company...

Reevaluate who is being condescending and bitter, because it ain't us, we're happy with the Abyss. Many of us also have other headphones that we love as much and you probably think are great.


----------



## ken6217

ra990 said:


> It seems to me like you have a very narrow mind about what can be enjoyable in audio.
> 
> I've auditioned these headphone for so many who have come into my house and it's always a guaranteed ear-to-ear grin. It's not that hard to understand why so many people love these headphones. They're a lot of fun!


It seems you have a very narrow mind about what someone finds enjoyable or not. I guess it follows suit that you would think if someone goes in the Baskin-Robbins that he should like what, 20 or 30 flavors out of a 32. Or all 32? Is it OK if he just likes chocolate or just vanilla? 

I would say most people have a specific sound signature that they like.


----------



## sloomingbla (Apr 1, 2022)

I mean, if someone called an 8k screen blurry it would be confusing, right?

I’ve heard many reports of the tc being amp-picky. I don’t know anything about the amps used but if I had to guess there’s something that went wrong somewhere in the chain. Then again, I’m using an 800$ amp so ymmv. If there wasn’t anything wrong with the chain, it’s easy to see that whatever you were hearing was not in the majority.

And that’s fine - but if you are going to say that we only enjoy our headphones because we have untrained ears and buyer’s bias, I would like to return the idea that a reviewer would also be heavily biased towards defending their position.

Confirmation bias, combined with strange initial impressions (which most of us experienced, until we got the fit right) could easily have snowballed this effect.


----------



## ra990

ken6217 said:


> It seems you have a very narrow mind about what someone finds enjoyable or not. I guess it follows suit that you would think if someone goes in the Baskin-Robbins that he should like what, 20 or 30 flavors out of a 32. Or all 32? Is it OK if he just likes chocolate or just vanilla?
> 
> I would say most people have a specific sound signature that they like.


No you are not good with analogies. This is like you liking what you like at baskin robins and insulting others for liking the flavors you don't.


----------



## ken6217

ra990 said:


> No you are not good with analogies. This is like you liking what you like at baskin robins and insulting others for liking the flavors you don't.


On the contrary, you insulted him for:* “It seems to me like you have a very narrow mind about what can be enjoyable in audio* “

Who are you to tell him what he should like???


----------



## ken6217

ra990 said:


> No you are not good with analogies. This is like you liking what you like at baskin robins and insulting others for liking the flavors you don't.


No. You’re bad at comprehending and understanding. Well, at least you have an expansive mind of what is enjoyable in audio.


----------



## ra990 (Apr 1, 2022)

ken6217 said:


> On the contrary, you insulted him for:* “It seems to me like you have a very narrow mind about what can be enjoyable in audio* “
> 
> Who are you to tell him what he should like???


I'm telling him he has a narrow mind because he "can't understand how anyone could like this headphone".

I don't care what he likes. I don't go around insulting people who like something that I don't. 

Please read the thread before getting all worked up.


----------



## ken6217

ra990 said:


> I'm telling him he has a narrow mind because he "can't understand how anyone could like this headphone".
> 
> I don't care what he likes. I don't go around insulting people who like something that I don't.
> 
> Please read the thread before getting all worked up.


I’ll give you that one. I did miss the earlier post.


----------



## ra990

ken6217 said:


> I’ll give you that one. I did miss the earlier post.


Rare for someone to own up to a mistake instead of digging in further. Thank you.


----------



## ken6217

ra990 said:


> Rare for someone to own up to a mistake instead of digging in further. Thank you.


Thats only because I’ve had practice. 😃


----------



## ra990

ken6217 said:


> Thats only because I’ve had practice. 😃


You must be married.


----------



## leftside

The price of these headphones alone make them an easy target for the trolls, or some Internet reviewer looking for a click-bait article. Me - I'm just happy I get to listen to the Abyss.


----------



## Ruddy1

sloomingbla said:


> I mean, if someone called an 8k screen blurry it would be confusing, right?
> 
> I’ve heard many reports of the tc being amp-picky. I don’t know anything about the amps used but if I had to guess there’s something that went wrong somewhere in the chain. Then again, I’m using an 800$ amp so ymmv. If there wasn’t anything wrong with the chain, it’s easy to see that whatever you were hearing was not in the majority.
> 
> ...


If the screen is as clear as 8K, but the color is very fake, will anyone like it? I think people may like 4K but more colorful monitors


----------



## ken6217

ra990 said:


> You must be married.


🥲


----------



## sloomingbla

Ruddy1 said:


> If the screen is as clear as 8K, but the color is very fake, will anyone like it? I think people may like 4K but more colorful monitors


That is clear, but not the point of my analogy. The point is that there are many characteristics of these headphones that are undeniable - such as the resolution, detail retrieval and staging capabilities. These absolutely hold their weight against other headphones in terms of *fidelity* at similar price ranges, and again, this is *undeniable*.

I understand criticisms of the sound signature, but they do not sound like a 2.1 system in an untreated 10x10x10 room, for example. The treble was compared to the HE500 "except grittier". “Differing levels of high schooler’s home-brew speaker system in their 2003 Honda Civic.” does not accurately describe these headphones in the slightest. Say what you want about the realism of the sound, we all have our own preference for sound signature, but these are criticisms that don't make very much sense to me.


----------



## qboogie (Apr 1, 2022)

I rather enjoyed that negative review. Despite being a bit scathing, he has some valid points and  examples of problems within specific FR regions. He also attempts to postulate why he might be getting the sound he is hearing.  I wish more reviews, favorable or not, could include some more information like this. He addresses the variability of sound with fit that is bound to be brought up in defense of the product. I don't recognize the amps he used but changing them probably would not have changed his opinion.

He mentions appreciating other TOTL headphones that are also especially flawed. It's clear he can tolerate an imperfect product, but I do get the sense that the reviewer was genuinely surprised (even amazed) to dislike it as much as he did.

One positive takeaway was this. After reading the review, I started to decrease the distance of the drivers from my ears, and now I'm getting more consistent bass tones and textures,  and far fewer "dropped notes" in the upper bass regions.

I still like my 1266 TC though.  It still leaves a strong impression, for sure. Detail and dimensionality are still world class. It reminds me of a supercharged Shelby Cobra. So powerful and so very... American.


----------



## Ruddy1

Now I also like to make the drive unit of 1266 closer to the ear as much as possible. The earmuff is adjusted to one o'clock to fit the ear as much as possible and completely sealed. I think such a balanced sound will be more accurate


----------



## cjarrett

I'm going to be looking into selling my Phi TCs sometime soon.  Ran into some home troubles and will need an extensive foundation repair, and I don't think I need both the TCs and Dianas. 

At some point soon I'll be putting up my post in the FS forum, but thought i'd pre-empt it by posting here.  The sale would come with my 8 ft/2.4m 4pin xlr Superconductor cable, Norn Audio S4 cable, and the original 1266 cable (unused).  It was purchased late december 2020.  If anyone wants more details, feel free to PM me.


----------



## JLoud

I brought my TC to a head-fi meet back before  the virus that shall not be named. (Just tired of hearing about it 😬)  I had it connected to my GSX mk2 and Shiit Yggdrasil. I was surprised how many people didn’t care for it. Just highlighted how much fit changes the sound.


----------



## Bonddam

I love this thread I think it’s the only thread on this entire forum where there’s fighting all the time laugh laugh


----------



## ra990

Bonddam said:


> I love this thread I think it’s the only thread on this entire forum where there’s fighting all the time laugh laugh


The DCA Stealth thread was a lot of fun when they came out but we've all settled down by now.

I think this review just got a big reaction, which it was clearly written to do. So, kudos to the writer for that.


----------



## ufospls2

listenerwww said:


> Read *Ish's* review


Ok, so is this review written by ishca? Has he moved to a new online handle? "slooploop2"?

Please disregard all of the below, if it's not the same person.

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/tsgjta/abyss_1266_phi_tc_review/

It's just that this helps give the review a bit more context if so. I don't have anything against ishca at all, but he's_ very _critical in terms of reviewing (which is totally fine, after all, we all like different stuff.)

See below for an example.

https://www.headphones.com/communit...kyle-dionelas-canjam-at-rmaf-2018-impressions

It used to confuse and sorta bother me when people were super critical of the 1266, because I didn't get it. I had/have tried so many top of the line cans and still love them. I have bought 4 different pairs of abyss headphones, and if I was only justifying my purchase you would think I would have stopped at the first pair.

Nowadays, I just enjoy what I enjoy in ignorant bliss  Seems easier, haha.


----------



## ra990 (Apr 1, 2022)

ufospls2 said:


> Ok, so is this review written by ishca? Has he moved to a new online handle? "slooploop2"?
> 
> Please disregard all of the below, if it's not the same person.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that context, definitely was interesting going through those posts.

I can agree with several of the criticisms about frequency response. I get it, I have been trying various EQs because I seem to prefer the harman target. But, that's solvable with EQ and these new convolution filters that were developed offer even more hope of getting the 1266 TC to conform better.

Some of us in this thread own multiple high end headphones and one of them is the 1266. There is a reason for that, several actually...and these reviews don't articulate those reasons at all. They claim we have no listening experience or taste, but ignore the fact that a lot of us also love the same headphones they laud. We even own them alongside the 1266 TC. How do they explain that? They claim that we're stuck with them and they're so expensive...despite most of us having a collection of headphones that constantly revolve. So, it can't be that...ok then it must be that we're shills for Abyss. Well you got me there. @Joe Skubinski my paycheck is overdue.

I love the Susvara too, I love the Stealth, and I love the 1266 TC...want to write a better review? Try to understand why that is...they are each at the top of their game for certain aspects.


----------



## deuter

ra990 said:


> You must be married.


What does this even mean?
I for one am married with kids, so does that make me any different?
From that comment I can only assume you are a college student.


----------



## ra990

deuter said:


> What does this even mean?
> I for one am married with kids, so does that make me any different?
> From that comment I can only assume you are a college student.


He said he's had practice fessing up to mistakes (see preceding posts), so I said "you must be married"...

It was just a joke, please don't slap me.


----------



## ken6217

deuter said:


> What does this even mean?
> I for one am married with kids, so does that make me any different?
> From that comment I can only assume you are a college student.


Get a grip, man. Do you want somebody to send you over a horse or a dog to pet for comfort too?

Check the Abyss website in the drop-down menu under accessories. They sell  sense of humor.


----------



## ra990

deuter said:


> What does this even mean?
> I for one am married with kids, so does that make me any different?
> From that comment I can only assume you are a college student.


It's funny because he got all worked up before reading preceding posts and jumped to attacking me, very similarly to what you're doing. Take a breath and relax, read the preceding posts. Read them with a sense of humor. @ken6217 is the one who I directed the comment to in a humorous way and it looks like he got it, so...

And no, I'm not a college student. I'm a 40yo man.


----------



## deuter

ken6217 said:


> Get a grip, man. Do you want somebody to send you over a horse or a dog to pet for comfort too?
> 
> Check the Abyss website in the drop-down menu under accessories. They sell  sense of humor.





ra990 said:


> It's funny because he got all worked up before reading preceding posts and jumped to attacking me, very similarly to what you're doing. Take a breath and relax, read the preceding posts. Read them with a sense of humor. @ken6217 is the one who I directed the comment to in a humorous way and it looks like he got it, so...
> 
> And no, I'm not a college student. I'm a 40yo man.


All’s well, we all are keyboard warriors and at times we shed innocent blood.


----------



## ken6217 (Apr 1, 2022)

deuter said:


> All’s well, we all are keyboard warriors and at times we shed innocent blood.


No one is a keyboard warrior. Just telling you that there’s no need to take this so seriously

Let @paradoxper set you straight.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> No one is a keyboard warrior. Just telling you that there’s no need to take this so seriously
> 
> Let @paradoxper set you straight.


Why do I get blamed for everything.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

On that note…


----------



## jlbrach

I love these forums and I have no problem with people disagreeing and the back and forth ...sadly,  we seem to be incorporating more angry people into the forums whose intention is either to insult or simply be contrary...I also continue to believe that a lot of these people have never actually heard the products they demean but that may be for another discussion lol


----------



## Bonddam

Open my used TC and don’t feel right. There are no labels. It sounds right but with that Chinese guy counterfeiting the headphones.


----------



## galacticsoap (Apr 1, 2022)

jlbrach said:


> I love these forums and I have no problem with people disagreeing and the back and forth ...sadly,  we seem to be incorporating more angry people into the forums whose intention is either to insult or simply be contrary...I also continue to believe that a lot of these people have never actually heard the products they demean but that may be for another discussion lol



That's it, I feel the same way. I certainly feel the insidious creep of a straight-up confrontational and angry tone to the discussions on this forum. I'm not out here nieve to Headfi's strengths and its obvious weaknesses. The latter, rightly requires people to take someone's support or love for a product with a whole bunch of salt depending on the source. But, why the aggression? It's a hobby, that too, about high-end headphones.

I find the narrative and tone on SBAF laughable to be honest. Despite the obvious technical chops users on that forum boast over Headfi, the way people are engaged over there when discussing all things personal audio is sometimes genuinely disorienting. I feel the need to glance up at my address bar to confirm that I'm not at UNHCR.net, such is the rage that permeates those discussions.

I'm all for a different opinion: yes, no, and maybe can all exist in the same discussion. They can all apply to the same product. But this business of my opinion/standard/experience being superior to yours because of squiggles on an x & y-axis, or the use of op-amps on a circuit board, or a particular tonality is in a word laughable.

If anything, it's this sort of small-minded debate, that descends into outright insults that turn audiophiles into caricatures that the rest of society finds so curious. Frankly, there's a non-duality that exists outside of this bubble we called audiophilia. Where we hear nuance, in tone, timbre, pace, rhythm, and timing the rest of the world hear's a mad beat. Neither perspective is wrong.


----------



## ra990 (Apr 1, 2022)

Bonddam said:


> Open my used TC and don’t feel right. There are no labels. It sounds right but with that Chinese guy counterfeiting the headphones.


I don't know if there should be any markings, but the drivers look nice and tightly stretched out. Also, the wires used look exactly like the conductors from the original Abyss cable that I recently rebuilt. 

I'm sure Joe will chime in if there's anything suspicious in those pictures.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Apr 1, 2022)

deuter said:


> All’s well, we all are keyboard warriors and at times we shed innocent blood.



LOL. This is a hilarious statement lol



jlbrach said:


> I love these forums and I have no problem with people disagreeing and the back and forth ...sadly,  we seem to be incorporating more angry people into the forums whose intention is either to insult or simply be contrary...I also continue to believe that a lot of these people have never actually heard the products they demean but that may be for another discussion lol



Will also agree here. Very weird as it seems to be trending this way much more lately.


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> Open my used TC and don’t feel right. There are no labels. It sounds right but with that Chinese guy counterfeiting the headphones.


That would be apropos if they were Chinese drivers. Remember……?


----------



## Bonddam (Apr 1, 2022)

ken6217 said:


> That would be apropos if they were Chinese drivers. Remember……?



I don’t know what apropos means. Unless you mean preposition but there are so many to choose from.

Wonder if I should show my kids the video of world trade crushing their grandfather. Maybe too early


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> I don’t know what apropos means. Unless you mean preposition but there are so many to choose from.
> 
> Wonder if I should show my kids the video of world trade crushing their grandfather. Maybe too early


_adjective_

very appropriate to a particular situation.


----------



## ra990

I'm going to need a translation for the last few posts. Can't make sense of it.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ra990 said:


> I'm going to need a translation for the last few posts. Can't make sense of it.


"If they were the Chinese drivers, that makes sense" is the gist


----------



## ken6217

ra990 said:


> I'm going to need a translation for the last few posts. Can't make sense of it.


I would cut and paste it from an old post, but the moderators removed it.


----------



## Ruddy1

It seems that TC has been secretly revised. I have seen two kinds of TC with different diaphragm


----------



## Bonddam

ken6217 said:


> _adjective_
> 
> very appropriate to a particular situation.



That’s why I need someone who tinkers who knows the driver to tell me yes it is one. The driver has a permanent seal to the metal plate with the serial and model type.


----------



## ken6217

Bonddam said:


> That’s why I need someone who tinkers who knows the driver to tell me yes it is one. The driver has a permanent seal to the metal plate with the serial and model type.


I’m just kidding with you.


----------



## Ruddy1 (Apr 1, 2022)

.


----------



## Ruddy1




----------



## Ciggavelli

Ruddy1 said:


>


This will get deleted. 

I went to the site and I want to DIY a pair of headphones now. Seems fun. Sorry Grado


----------



## Bonddam

number1sixerfan said:


> LOL. This is a hilarious statement lol
> 
> 
> 
> Will also agree here. Very weird as it seems to be trending this way much more lately.


It’s true the anger at the invisible person is worse than crap talking in person. At least in person you can pull the stare and see who’s alpha. Even if it’s mutual fear it’s over. Here it lingers. Made at the meme curse you meme


----------



## Bonddam

ken6217 said:


> I’m just kidding with you.


Dude anytime I’m here I fear you and Paradox lol


----------



## Ciggavelli

Bonddam said:


> Dude anytime I’m here I fear you and Paradox lol


Lol 

Both are actually nice deep down, but the probably don’t want me saying that


----------



## Bonddam

So people say there are flaws

When I pulled the cover off it was clean perfectly machined the spun aluminum gets rid of need of more protection. The sheet is 1/8 at looks wide open in back. Magnets can’t be touched or moved. It’s easy to take apart. I’m guessing the drivers may be serial and housing is just that. Other headphones you have to remove glued on parts the 1266 you unscrew and do solder thing and screw back. So assembly is smart. 

Sound is what it is you like it or you don’t. 

It can be used for self defense. Never know when listening to tunes and someone on bath salts breaks down your door and you can jump into action matrix style and destroy the guy by making him listen to your tunes. If guy has a gun the 1266 may be able to deflect bullets, if it’s a shut gun then the spinning windmill technique must be used. Maybe the Detroit gun disarming YouTube channel guy could add some pointers.

Also we know they can be used to jack a car wheel up. 

These headphones actually are with the 6k but it’s up to your imagination


----------



## ra990 (Apr 2, 2022)

Bonddam said:


> When I pulled the cover off it was clean perfectly machined the spun aluminum gets rid of need of more protection. The sheet is 1/8 at looks wide open in back. Magnets can’t be touched or moved. It’s easy to take apart. I’m guessing the drivers may be serial and housing is just that. Other headphones you have to remove glued on parts the 1266 you unscrew and do solder thing and screw back. So assembly is smart.


I find that pretty interesting about the 1266. There's the aluminum foam, and the path is from the driver, the thin metal mesh and then your ear. They're probably one of the least dampened drivers of any planar. The only dampening going on is when you bring them close to your face and you can control that aspect and tune in the speaker like sound.

If you compare that to something like the Stealth where it's closed back and frequencies are going through it's specially tuned AMTS system, which sits between the driver and the ear and dampens substantially. The sound you get out of those two are completely different.

I think this is why the Abyss are one of the most tactile and punchy where as the stealth are felt to be lacking tactility and punch.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> Lol
> 
> Both are actually nice deep down, but the probably don’t want me saying that


I've been around here a while and most think I'm nice.


----------



## jlbrach

once you get to know him a sweetheart!


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> I've been around here a while and most think I'm nice.


I think I’ve heard that said about Saddam Hussein as well. 😂


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> I think I’ve heard that said about Saddam Hussein as well. 😂


Haha. That's certainly one way to spin things.


----------



## TDinCali

Ciggavelli said:


> The more I listen to these filters, the more that gets revealed...lol.  Everything sounds so "clean" for lack of a better word.  If the TC was a little messy before (and I didn't really think it was), it is much cleaner now.  Everything is sparkling with crystal clear imaging and spatial location.  It's kinda crazy actually now hearing these for the past few hours.  It definitely brings a new flavor to the TCs that I could see working much better for some genres.  I don't listen to classical, but I could see people really into that genre loving these filters.
> 
> I'm going to give them a solid recommendation
> 
> ...


Damn it! I went from, nope don’t need it, to nope don’t want it, to hmm that’s interesting, to gotta have it. Damn you!!!


----------



## PierPP

paradoxper said:


> I've been around here a while and most think I'm nice.



me, @ken6217 and @jlbrach ... and that's at least 3.. well I don't know if ken still think that but well I'm sure he doesn't want to throw a 1266 over your head


----------



## ken6217

PierPP said:


> me, @ken6217 and @jlbrach ... and that's at least 3.. well I don't know if ken still think that but well I'm sure he doesn't want to throw a 1266 over your head


Cory’s a good guy. Just a little misunderstood. 😆


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Cory’s a good guy. Just a little misunderstood. 😆


Warms my heart. I understand I'm overt.


----------



## Litlgi74

TDinCali said:


> Damn it! I went from, nope don’t need it, to nope don’t want it, to hmm that’s interesting, to gotta have it. Damn you!!!


Be sure to try the demos...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-16891822


----------



## Frankie D

_Rd_


PierPP said:


> me, @ken6217 and @jlbrach ... and that's at least 3.. well I don't know if ken still think that but well I'm sure he doesn't want to throw a 1266 over your head


Ha!  Add me to the list, they makes at least 4 they like @paradoxper


----------



## F208Frank

For TC owners, what would be a popular complimentary headphone that is not a Susvara?


----------



## ra990

F208Frank said:


> For TC owners, what would be a popular complimentary headphone that is not a Susvara?


I am really happy with the Stealth and it's the opposite of the Abyss in many ways, yet very impressive in its own right. They make great contrasting options because there's very little overlap in what they do well. It's not very popular on this forum though.


----------



## F208Frank

ra990 said:


> I am really happy with the Stealth and it's the opposite of the Abyss in many ways, yet very impressive in its own right. They make great contrasting options because there's very little overlap in what they do well. It's not very popular on this forum though.


Interesting, is the a closed back? I was actually looking at that one believe it or not, haha.


----------



## ra990

F208Frank said:


> Interesting, is the a closed back? I was actually looking at that one believe it or not, haha.


Yep it is a closed back. I'm not usually into closed backs, which is another testament to how much I like it.


----------



## F208Frank

ra990 said:


> Yep it is a closed back. I'm not usually into closed backs, which is another testament to how much I like it.


May work well for me as I would prefer the versatility of a closed back vs open back for potential traveling, airplane boarding, etc.

But then I would need a DAP, sigh.

Why do most TC owners dislike the Stealth?


----------



## ra990

F208Frank said:


> May work well for me as I would prefer the versatility of a closed back vs open back for potential traveling, airplane boarding, etc.
> 
> But then I would need a DAP, sigh.
> 
> Why do most TC owners dislike the Stealth?


The biggest complaint about the Stealth is that is lacks dynamics and bass punch. A lot of fans of the headphone disagree. I will say, like most DCA headphones, I've found that they take more time to get acclimated to than most. So, they're not impressive with a quick A/B. But once you relax into the music and the headphone pads relax around your ears creating a perfect seal, then it's really unlike anything I've heard. The realism, naturalness, details, resolution, staging, everything about it sounds like you're in a perfectly treated room. Bass is different on the headphone, it's there and it's deep, but it's never overwhelming and very tightly controlled. Just my quick impressions. I've had them for several months and it took me a few weeks to become enamored with them. Also changed my preference to harman target and now I use EQ on the Abyss to make them sound a bit more like the Stealth's tonality.

Lots more about the Stealth on the Stealth thread - come on over. I don't want to turn this thread into another Stealth debate - it's all there on that thread for you to enjoy.


----------



## jlbrach

F208Frank said:


> For TC owners, what would be a popular complimentary headphone that is not a Susvara?


sr1a


----------



## vonBaron

F208Frank said:


> May work well for me as I would prefer the versatility of a closed back vs open back for potential traveling, airplane boarding, etc.
> 
> But then I would need a DAP, sigh.
> 
> Why do most TC owners dislike the Stealth?


Because Stealth is boring overpriced headphones.


----------



## Slim1970

vonBaron said:


> Because Stealth is boring overpriced headphones.


Direct and to the point as usual, haha!


----------



## normie610

F208Frank said:


> For TC owners, what would be a popular complimentary headphone that is not a Susvara?


SR1a would be the one


----------



## DJJEZ

F208Frank said:


> For TC owners, what would be a popular complimentary headphone that is not a Susvara?


Solitaire P or utopia but I would personally choose utopia.


----------



## Litlgi74

F208Frank said:


> For TC owners, what would be a popular complimentary headphone that is not a Susvara?


Fostex TH900


----------



## F208Frank

Litlgi74 said:


> Fostex TH900


Interesting. The retail priced dropped over time. Its now 1600 or so compared to 2k to 2.4k back then correct?

It looks like it also has its own accompanying amp, do you just use your same Moon amp?


----------



## Litlgi74

F208Frank said:


> Interesting. The retail priced dropped over time. Its now 1600 or so compared to 2k to 2.4k back then correct?
> 
> It looks like it also has its own accompanying amp, do you just use your same Moon amp?



Unfortunately... I've sold it... Twice! I used to use my Cayin IHA-6 to power them. But I'm sure I could use my RME ADI-2.

Right now I am very, very pleased with my iBasso DX300 and Monarch IEMs.

But as you can see... I think about getting TH900s every once and awhile... Especially the Sapphire ones.

PS... I think they've always been in the $1200-1600 range. $700-900 used.


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

F208Frank said:


> For TC owners, what would be a popular complimentary headphone that is not a Susvara?


I also have a PHI TC and am considering whether the Meze Elite would be an interesting complimentary option.


----------



## Slim1970

DJJEZ said:


> Solitaire P or utopia but I would personally choose utopia.


The Utopia’s are a great choice and get my vote as well.


----------



## vonBaron

Vote for Utopia as well, great combo!


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

The Utopia are great but it's been around for almost six years so I'm expecting a Utopia V2 soon.


----------



## sloomingbla

As an owner of the red th900s, the sapphire th900s, and the Tc’s, imo they are all great headphones but the th900s are kinda similar in their niche. It compliments the tcs by being warmer, more comfortable and adding a bit more soul to the music, but they’re mostly great for the “bass with clarity/soundstage” which the tc’s are better at, imo. They are closed yes, but they don’t isolate a whole lot either.

The th900s are a bit more forgiving on poor recordings, slightly boomier, and good as a fun, casual companion.

I haven’t been using my th900s at all since I got my tcs though, so keep that in mind.. hard to really recommend for that reason, but I am still in my honeymoon stage with my tcs so that’s a part of it.

The sapphire version has less bass but a bit more clarity/speed, and it is a minor difference. I’d save money and go for the reds imo, unless you love the color/exclusivity enough.

Again don’t get me wrong, I LOVE the th900s, there’s a reason I have both. They truly bring out the emotion in music, and I would never sell mine.


----------



## Ciggavelli

sloomingbla said:


> As an owner of the red th900s, the sapphire th900s, and the Tc’s, imo they are all great headphones but the th900s are kinda similar in their niche. It compliments the tcs by being warmer, more comfortable and adding a bit more soul to the music, but they’re mostly great for the “bass with clarity/soundstage” which the tc’s are better at, imo. They are closed yes, but they don’t isolate a whole lot either.
> 
> The th900s are a bit more forgiving on poor recordings, slightly boomier, and good as a fun, casual companion.
> 
> ...


I have the Sapphire Th900mk2s, and I think the bass is amazing.  How much more bass does the red have?  Is it just slight?


----------



## JLoud

F208Frank said:


> For TC owners, what would be a popular complimentary headphone that is not a Susvara?


I like the LCD4. The TC has great bass and treble but midrange is a little recessed and not its strength. The LCD4 has great bass, however a little fuller presentation compared to the TC, and the mids are fantastic. Treble is where opinions differ on the LCD4. I also have the Stealth and it is indeed polar opposite of the TC. You may or may not like it, but it is a contrast.


----------



## vonBaron

sloomingbla said:


> As an owner of the red th900s, the sapphire th900s, and the Tc’s, imo they are all great headphones but the th900s are kinda similar in their niche. It compliments the tcs by being warmer, more comfortable and adding a bit more soul to the music, but they’re mostly great for the “bass with clarity/soundstage” which the tc’s are better at, imo. They are closed yes, but they don’t isolate a whole lot either.
> 
> The th900s are a bit more forgiving on poor recordings, slightly boomier, and good as a fun, casual companion.
> 
> ...


TH-900 are nowhere near 1266.


----------



## filud

May I ask why nobody mentioned LCD-5 as complimentary headphone to AB 1266 Phi TC?
Is it so bad?
Just curious .


----------



## sloomingbla

Ciggavelli said:


> I have the Sapphire Th900mk2s, and I think the bass is amazing.  How much more bass does the red have?  Is it just slight?


The bass is great on both. It is enough to be noticeable, and if I had to give a highly unscientific guess, it’s something like a 3-4db boost in the mid bass range. The sapphire reaches a bit deeper, but the th900 has more quantity and hits harder. Sapphire makes up for it with better clarity, dynamics, and quality of bass. 

The level of difference imo is comparable to switching between two similarly priced amps. Sounds like a very similar headphone regardless, nothing crazy.


----------



## vonBaron (Apr 3, 2022)

@filud Yes they rather bad


----------



## Dynamo5561

TH-900 are quite hot in the treble region and I had the saphire one. I'd also throw in the LCD-4z. Good old Audeze house sound, technically profound and a nice complement to the 1266. VC would be also a nice complement.


----------



## Barone Birra

filud said:


> May I ask why nobody mentioned LCD-5 as complimentary headphone to AB 1266 Phi TC?
> Is it so bad?
> Just curious .


If you think, like me, that the music is in the "mids" and not in bass+strange treble, each one of Utopia, VO or LCD-5 is way better than the 1266. So yes, it's a good pairing.


----------



## sloomingbla

vonBaron said:


> TH-900 are nowhere near 1266.


No, not in detail retrieval, soundstage, bass quality, ect. The price difference is noticeable here.

My best comparison would be comparing highly expensive, luxurious sashimi to the like of a deep fried godzilla roll. Both are fantastic, haha.

This is with pad rolling though - the changes to the mid range and treble made with some inexpensive pads and dekoni attenuation rings make these headphones perfect for my tastes tonally.


----------



## Litlgi74

sloomingbla said:


> No, not in detail retrieval, soundstage, bass quality, ect. The price difference is noticeable here.
> 
> My best comparison would be comparing highly expensive, luxurious sashimi to the like of a deep fried godzilla roll. Both are fantastic, haha.
> 
> This is with pad rolling though - the changes to the mid range and treble made with some inexpensive pads and dekoni attenuation rings make these headphones perfect for my tastes tonally.


I enjoyed the 610 pads on the 900s.


----------



## Somatic

Litlgi74 said:


> Ok... here you go.
> 
> You will need Audacity: https://www.audacityteam.org/download/
> 
> ...


So are these filters EQ or a mesh


Litlgi74 said:


> Ok... here you go.
> 
> You will need Audacity: https://www.audacityteam.org/download/
> 
> ...


Are these filter EQ or a physical mesh in front of drivers? Thanks


----------



## F208Frank

sloomingbla said:


> As an owner of the red th900s, the sapphire th900s, and the Tc’s, imo they are all great headphones but the th900s are kinda similar in their niche. It compliments the tcs by being warmer, more comfortable and adding a bit more soul to the music, but they’re mostly great for the “bass with clarity/soundstage” which the tc’s are better at, imo. They are closed yes, but they don’t isolate a whole lot either.
> 
> The th900s are a bit more forgiving on poor recordings, slightly boomier, and good as a fun, casual companion.
> 
> ...


This was very helpful thanks.


----------



## ra990

They're software filters @Somatic. You can load them into something like Roon. They're a lot more complex than your average PEQ filters.


----------



## Somatic

ra990 said:


> They're software filters @Somatic. You can load them into something like Roon. They're a lot more complex than your average PEQ filters.


Wondering if any solid pad rolling choices that give similar results? I’ll need to read the thread more. Thanks.


----------



## ra990

Somatic said:


> Wondering if any solid pad rolling choices that give similar results? I’ll need to read the thread more. Thanks.


I wish, but not many choices for non-factory pads that I know of.


----------



## Somatic

DJJEZ said:


> Where do you live? In the UK we are able to buy audio gear and listen to it for a month and return for a full refund if we are not happy...we just have to notified the store within 14 days of receiving the item that we want to return it but have up to 30 days total till it has to be returned.


Geez that is nice. Would save me a lot of money.


----------



## sloomingbla

Litlgi74 said:


> I enjoyed the 610 pads on the 900s.


I did as well, especially with either the dekoni attenuation rings or with a cardstock “C” cut out behind the earpad. (I have that posted in the mods forum).

I ended up with these after trying 5-6 pads 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07VKLCLF7?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

As with the attenuation rings these pads bring out the mids, tame the highs, increase the soundstage and bring out more of the sub bass. It does sacrifice clarity a small bit though, but the other benefits are worth it to me.

(If there are any questions about this feel free to message me, figure I shouldn’t crowd the tc forum with th900 mods)


----------



## sloomingbla

ra990 said:


> I wish, but not many choices for non-factory pads that I know of.


Someone’s gotta get on that! Haha. Gotta be an option or two out there, albeit it would have to have a makeshift method of attachment


----------



## Jeweltopia

smodtactical said:


> https://aacollective.wordpress.com/2022/03/30/abyss-1266-phi-tc/
> 
> Damn brutal review
> 
> ...



Honestly, I agree with this review of the Abyss 1266 Phi TC. I auditioned the original several years ago, had the Abyss 1266 Phi TC on demo (twice) for extended periods, and even owned the Abyss 1266 Phi TC for a while before I wanted to chuck it out a window. Amps / dacs used were: GS-X Mini, Linear Tube Audio Z10 (I've run into several people online and a small few in person who have heard Abyss on both Woo Audio WA33 and LTA Z10, and even said they preferred my LTA Z10, so take that with a grain of salt), the balanced headphone amp on my Bricasti M3h amp/dac combo, SuSy Dynahi, various speaker amps (at headfi meets), and DACs used were: Bricasti M3, Chord TT2, Schiit Yggdrasil (two different versions), as well as a plethora of other random amps/dacs that I've come across at different headfi meets. 

Conclusion? Wow, just wow. I made the mistake of purchasing the Abyss 1266 Phi TC BEFORE having the pleasure of sticking my $400 Sennheiser HD650s on my new setup. My taste of "what's good" has been evolving since I was pretty much an infant, since my father (a seasoned audiophile / electrical engineer) instilled the love of music and gear into me. I'm pretty sure that he somehow had me listening to speakers and headphones in the womb somehow, but I digress. I was impressed with Abyss 1266 Phi TC's parlor tricks for some time until I realized that the party trick wore off way too quickly. For starters, a lot of people argue that the better the setup = the better these will sound. How? I have thrown these onto dozens of various amp/dac combinations and they only scale so much. I've run into the misfortune of planar magnetics hitting a ceiling in general when it comes to scaling. Even at headfi meets when I'd run into an Audeze LCD-4z or an equivalent, several people would find that the likes of Abyss 1266 would hit a ceiling where it either 1) no longer is able to scale or 2) the headphone starts showing you the flaws of your gear or 3) the gear starts showing you the flaws of the Abyss 1266 Phi TC. I say this because I definitely stuck it on some setups that sounded completely gross with it, and Abyss definitely was revealing enough to let me know that the setup wasn't on par with its standards. HOWEVER, on the flipside, I stuck Abyss on some outstanding setups. The issue? A pair of Sennheiser HD580s or HD650s would keep scaling indefinitely on the same incredible setups, while Abyss (and other planars of the like) would hit a ceiling cap where they felt like they couldn't scale any further. On the contrary, I feel as though the setups that actually worked best with it were my Linear Tube Audio Z10 / Bricasti M3 dac, however, that is because the tube amp softened the harsh decay, somehow somewhat semi-corrected the metallic/plasticky tin can timbre (but also not entirely), and made it extremely enjoyable by masking a lot of the issues and somewhat filling in the hollow abyssal lack of midrange. 

On the best solid state setup that I heard, the flaws were even more prevalent. Mind you, I think I tried at least 20 solid state amp/dac configurations before deciding that this was a headphone that I felt as though (for myself) sounded much nicer on tubes. Why? For the reasons listed above. However, I did find a few solid state setups that were quite nice, and I admit that the Abyss sounded rather decent on them. However... as I said before, when I'd stick some cheap Senny headphones on the same really great solid state setups, the latter would scale while Abyss would hit a maximum capacity for scaling. Trying to find an amp/dac combination (even with more pricier components -- so please don't assume that everything we tried with them was peasant tech) that made Abyss truly shine was a painstaking game of musical chairs. I was lucky in the fact that I found a combination that sounded really good with Abyss, but I shuddered to think of several other $2,000, $5,000, or even $10,000 amp/dac combinations that made Abyss sound like a shrill shrieking banshee of a headphone. I'm serious. A lot of people might call this "needing to find the right chain for the right headphone", but I call it "needing to find a chain that completely and utterly masks the headphone's flaws and nerfs them into oblivion, otherwise the headphone won't be enjoyable." 

And these flaws are: a completely artificial sounding timbre that is reminiscent of plastic or aluminum foil. A tube amp sort of masked these issues for me, though. Not to mention there was a midrange that is as sucked out and as the name implies, leaving what felt like an abyss sized hole in its place. My tube amp also helped flesh out the midrange a bit, but I digress. Before I sold these, I even let my father listen to these in conjunction with my Sennheisers, and he laughed. Mind you, he's a seasoned audiophile who was big into the scene around the early to late 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s. His exact words were: "This is not what music was designed to sound like.", pointing out the unnatural decay, unnatural timbre, unnatural hollowed out sound, and whatnot. As for the subwoofer and speaker-like sound that these are notoriously so praised for, he joked that a subwoofer and any half decent nearfield setup from Best Buy or Wal Mart would give you a similar bassy experience. So, reading the review cite "home-brew speaker system in their 2003 Honda Civic" was very reminiscent of my pops saying that you should just go to Best Buy or Wal Mart and grab some desk speakers and a subwoofer to get that same sort of "Je ne sais quoi."

When I would bring my friends or co-workers over and show them how much my Sennheiser HD650 scales in conjunction to Abyss (back when I still had my Abyss before I sold it), they'd be very impressed by both -- don't get me wrong -- but then I'd tell them that one cost $400 and the other cost $5,000 and they'd laugh. Sure, the subwoofer-like bass and speaker-like presentation on Abyss aren't features that are easily replicated on other headphones such as my Sennheisers, but I in turn get: good timbre, phenomenal midrange, scaling capabilities vs feeling like I've hit a brick wall with how far my gear can actually push a pair of headphones, and plenty of other perks. Sure, people might argue that the speaker-like presentation that Abyss has and the subwoofer-like bass are perks worthy of a $5,000 price tag, but I might argue that good and natural sounding tonality, timbre that isn't reminiscent of aluminum foil, and a phenomenal midrange, etc. are all qualities that I'd gladly pay $5,000 just to not have omitted and completely nerfed from a TOTL headphone model. So even though I did enjoy my time with the Abyss at some point, also do keep in mind that I only really enjoyed it on a setup that completely masked it and transformed it into something it is not. My tube amp helped fill in the midrange, mask the atrocious timbre, and soften up the decay. Without these things, would I have enjoyed Abyss on even my best solid state setup or best SS setup that I managed to hear at Hifi stores / headfi meets? Eh... highly debatable. I truly think that people need to stop coping by saying that these headphones can only be enjoyed on the right amp/dac, with the stars aligned, and on some magical and divine combination that does these absolute and utter justice. Let's be real here. These headphones are often enjoyed by people who have managed to find a goldilocks setup (like I did) that heavily masked the flaws, fixed the flaws, or made the flaws less glaringly noticeable. And that's perfectly okay. It's fine. But people also need to normalize that and just admit that instead of telling potential new owners that they need some goldilocks mythical $10,000-20,000 setup that is going to make these sound outstanding, what people REALLY need to aim for is a setup that is going to mask the glaringly obvious flaws in order to make it sound more enjoyable. And I say these as a previous owner who actually paid for these, sold these (at a loss), and at one point thought that these were the best headphones I'd ever heard in my life. But when a pair of Sennheiser HD580/HD650s started sounding better and better on my new setups (or setups that I'd run into at headfi meets), then these quickly became a $5,000 paperweight on my shelf that not only was no longer worth keeping, but also wasn't worth all the effort of only being able to enjoy on very niche setups that completely masked and transformed their flaws, making them into something that they obviously were not.


----------



## mitchb

…


----------



## Ruddy1

Jeweltopia said:


> Honestly, I agree with this review of the Abyss 1266 Phi TC. I auditioned the original several years ago, had the Abyss 1266 Phi TC on demo (twice) for extended periods, and even owned the Abyss 1266 Phi TC for a while before I wanted to chuck it out a window. Amps / dacs used were: GS-X Mini, Linear Tube Audio Z10 (I've run into several people online and a small few in person who have heard Abyss on both Woo Audio WA33 and LTA Z10, and even said they preferred my LTA Z10, so take that with a grain of salt), the balanced headphone amp on my Bricasti M3h amp/dac combo, SuSy Dynahi, various speaker amps (at headfi meets), and DACs used were: Bricasti M3, Chord TT2, Schiit Yggdrasil (two different versions), as well as a plethora of other random amps/dacs that I've come across at different headfi meets.
> 
> Conclusion? Wow, just wow. I made the mistake of purchasing the Abyss 1266 Phi TC BEFORE having the pleasure of sticking my $400 Sennheiser HD650s on my new setup. My taste of "what's good" has been evolving since I was pretty much an infant, since my father (a seasoned audiophile / electrical engineer) instilled the love of music and gear into me. I'm pretty sure that he somehow had me listening to speakers and headphones in the womb somehow, but I digress. I was impressed with Abyss 1266 Phi TC's parlor tricks for some time until I realized that the party trick wore off way too quickly. For starters, a lot of people argue that the better the setup = the better these will sound. How? I have thrown these onto dozens of various amp/dac combinations and they only scale so much. I've run into the misfortune of planar magnetics hitting a ceiling in general when it comes to scaling. Even at headfi meets when I'd run into an Audeze LCD-4z or an equivalent, several people would find that the likes of Abyss 1266 would hit a ceiling where it either 1) no longer is able to scale or 2) the headphone starts showing you the flaws of your gear or 3) the gear starts showing you the flaws of the Abyss 1266 Phi TC. I say this because I definitely stuck it on some setups that sounded completely gross with it, and Abyss definitely was revealing enough to let me know that the setup wasn't on par with its standards. HOWEVER, on the flipside, I stuck Abyss on some outstanding setups. The issue? A pair of Sennheiser HD580s or HD650s would keep scaling indefinitely on the same incredible setups, while Abyss (and other planars of the like) would hit a ceiling cap where they felt like they couldn't scale any further. On the contrary, I feel as though the setups that actually worked best with it were my Linear Tube Audio Z10 / Bricasti M3 dac, however, that is because the tube amp softened the harsh decay, somehow somewhat semi-corrected the metallic/plasticky tin can timbre (but also not entirely), and made it extremely enjoyable by masking a lot of the issues and somewhat filling in the hollow abyssal lack of midrange.
> 
> ...


You said it very well!


----------



## vonBaron

Jeweltopia said:


> Honestly, I agree with this review of the Abyss 1266 Phi TC. I auditioned the original several years ago, had the Abyss 1266 Phi TC on demo (twice) for extended periods, and even owned the Abyss 1266 Phi TC for a while before I wanted to chuck it out a window. Amps / dacs used were: GS-X Mini, Linear Tube Audio Z10 (I've run into several people online and a small few in person who have heard Abyss on both Woo Audio WA33 and LTA Z10, and even said they preferred my LTA Z10, so take that with a grain of salt), the balanced headphone amp on my Bricasti M3h amp/dac combo, SuSy Dynahi, various speaker amps (at headfi meets), and DACs used were: Bricasti M3, Chord TT2, Schiit Yggdrasil (two different versions), as well as a plethora of other random amps/dacs that I've come across at different headfi meets.
> 
> Conclusion? Wow, just wow. I made the mistake of purchasing the Abyss 1266 Phi TC BEFORE having the pleasure of sticking my $400 Sennheiser HD650s on my new setup. My taste of "what's good" has been evolving since I was pretty much an infant, since my father (a seasoned audiophile / electrical engineer) instilled the love of music and gear into me. I'm pretty sure that he somehow had me listening to speakers and headphones in the womb somehow, but I digress. I was impressed with Abyss 1266 Phi TC's parlor tricks for some time until I realized that the party trick wore off way too quickly. For starters, a lot of people argue that the better the setup = the better these will sound. How? I have thrown these onto dozens of various amp/dac combinations and they only scale so much. I've run into the misfortune of planar magnetics hitting a ceiling in general when it comes to scaling. Even at headfi meets when I'd run into an Audeze LCD-4z or an equivalent, several people would find that the likes of Abyss 1266 would hit a ceiling where it either 1) no longer is able to scale or 2) the headphone starts showing you the flaws of your gear or 3) the gear starts showing you the flaws of the Abyss 1266 Phi TC. I say this because I definitely stuck it on some setups that sounded completely gross with it, and Abyss definitely was revealing enough to let me know that the setup wasn't on par with its standards. HOWEVER, on the flipside, I stuck Abyss on some outstanding setups. The issue? A pair of Sennheiser HD580s or HD650s would keep scaling indefinitely on the same incredible setups, while Abyss (and other planars of the like) would hit a ceiling cap where they felt like they couldn't scale any further. On the contrary, I feel as though the setups that actually worked best with it were my Linear Tube Audio Z10 / Bricasti M3 dac, however, that is because the tube amp softened the harsh decay, somehow somewhat semi-corrected the metallic/plasticky tin can timbre (but also not entirely), and made it extremely enjoyable by masking a lot of the issues and somewhat filling in the hollow abyssal lack of midrange.
> 
> ...


Please go away...


----------



## Ruddy1

TC is really unnatural, but the earliest 1266 is the most natural and closest equipment I have ever heard of! Quote a friend's picture

 Ranking of the most natural earphones in my mind 

 Early 1266- final audio design piano forte xcc-1266phi - Sony R10-Stax omega-hd800 10000 numbered version


----------



## FLTWS

I stuck with my Phi and added the new CC pads when they were released. Spent 10 days comparing Phi to TC in my home and wasn't overwhelmed by changes to the sound.
The Phi CC doesn't get much play time anymore. 

We all like different things and its a part of being a hobbyist and not just a once and done'r with a pair of "BEATS".
I'm 5 decades into the audiophile's pursuit and there is nothing so constant as change in an unreachable quest to hear music "live" in the home thru electro - mechanical means of reproduction. But it keeps me off the streets and out of trouble


----------



## ra990

Jeweltopia said:


> Honestly, I agree with this review of the Abyss 1266 Phi TC. I auditioned the original several years ago, had the Abyss 1266 Phi TC on demo (twice) for extended periods, and even owned the Abyss 1266 Phi TC for a while before I wanted to chuck it out a window. Amps / dacs used were: GS-X Mini, Linear Tube Audio Z10 (I've run into several people online and a small few in person who have heard Abyss on both Woo Audio WA33 and LTA Z10, and even said they preferred my LTA Z10, so take that with a grain of salt), the balanced headphone amp on my Bricasti M3h amp/dac combo, SuSy Dynahi, various speaker amps (at headfi meets), and DACs used were: Bricasti M3, Chord TT2, Schiit Yggdrasil (two different versions), as well as a plethora of other random amps/dacs that I've come across at different headfi meets.
> 
> Conclusion? Wow, just wow. I made the mistake of purchasing the Abyss 1266 Phi TC BEFORE having the pleasure of sticking my $400 Sennheiser HD650s on my new setup. My taste of "what's good" has been evolving since I was pretty much an infant, since my father (a seasoned audiophile / electrical engineer) instilled the love of music and gear into me. I'm pretty sure that he somehow had me listening to speakers and headphones in the womb somehow, but I digress. I was impressed with Abyss 1266 Phi TC's parlor tricks for some time until I realized that the party trick wore off way too quickly. For starters, a lot of people argue that the better the setup = the better these will sound. How? I have thrown these onto dozens of various amp/dac combinations and they only scale so much. I've run into the misfortune of planar magnetics hitting a ceiling in general when it comes to scaling. Even at headfi meets when I'd run into an Audeze LCD-4z or an equivalent, several people would find that the likes of Abyss 1266 would hit a ceiling where it either 1) no longer is able to scale or 2) the headphone starts showing you the flaws of your gear or 3) the gear starts showing you the flaws of the Abyss 1266 Phi TC. I say this because I definitely stuck it on some setups that sounded completely gross with it, and Abyss definitely was revealing enough to let me know that the setup wasn't on par with its standards. HOWEVER, on the flipside, I stuck Abyss on some outstanding setups. The issue? A pair of Sennheiser HD580s or HD650s would keep scaling indefinitely on the same incredible setups, while Abyss (and other planars of the like) would hit a ceiling cap where they felt like they couldn't scale any further. On the contrary, I feel as though the setups that actually worked best with it were my Linear Tube Audio Z10 / Bricasti M3 dac, however, that is because the tube amp softened the harsh decay, somehow somewhat semi-corrected the metallic/plasticky tin can timbre (but also not entirely), and made it extremely enjoyable by masking a lot of the issues and somewhat filling in the hollow abyssal lack of midrange.
> 
> ...


@Jeweltopia you could have posted on here for advice before buying it. Many of us would have told you that the Abyss is not a good headphone for natural timbre. Especially if you are looking for only one headphone to keep. There are better choices for natural timbre for sure. Like the Susvara. 

Abyss is a fun headphone that gives you a speaker like tactile, visceral, and fun experience. You won't find anything like it if that's what you are looking for. 

You just went after the wrong high end headphone without understanding it well enough.


----------



## sloomingbla (Apr 4, 2022)

See, the difference between the review and your post is that I can actually understand where you are coming from. You explained how you felt certain things sounded, and your reasoning behind it. You don’t lead anyone to believe that these headphones aren’t technically impressive, just that you don’t enjoy the house sound and disagree with the direction they take it. You are sharing a view point instead of bashing the people who actually enjoy the headphones.

I will mention that these headphones have an incredibly low sensitivity, with also relatively low ohms(40 I think?). This DOES make them amp picky. Even high end amps might not make them sound right, as they really need a special treatment for their unusual power draw.

Granted, I’m just using the auralic mk2 (a slightly bright amp) and they still sound great to me. My lampizator golden atlantic is helping quite a bit here though.

And see, I’m someone who can’t enjoy music without a great bass response. The type of music you listen to can make a huge difference. I mostly enjoy different types of edm and ambient music.


----------



## leftside

Jeweltopia said:


> Honestly, I agree with this review of the Abyss 1266 Phi TC. I auditioned the original several years ago, had the Abyss 1266 Phi TC on demo (twice) for extended periods, and even owned the Abyss 1266 Phi TC for a while before I wanted to chuck it out a window. Amps / dacs used were: GS-X Mini, Linear Tube Audio Z10 (I've run into several people online and a small few in person who have heard Abyss on both Woo Audio WA33 and LTA Z10, and even said they preferred my LTA Z10, so take that with a grain of salt), the balanced headphone amp on my Bricasti M3h amp/dac combo, SuSy Dynahi, various speaker amps (at headfi meets), and DACs used were: Bricasti M3, Chord TT2, Schiit Yggdrasil (two different versions), as well as a plethora of other random amps/dacs that I've come across at different headfi meets.
> 
> Conclusion? Wow, just wow. I made the mistake of purchasing the Abyss 1266 Phi TC BEFORE having the pleasure of sticking my $400 Sennheiser HD650s on my new setup. My taste of "what's good" has been evolving since I was pretty much an infant, since my father (a seasoned audiophile / electrical engineer) instilled the love of music and gear into me. I'm pretty sure that he somehow had me listening to speakers and headphones in the womb somehow, but I digress. I was impressed with Abyss 1266 Phi TC's parlor tricks for some time until I realized that the party trick wore off way too quickly. For starters, a lot of people argue that the better the setup = the better these will sound. How? I have thrown these onto dozens of various amp/dac combinations and they only scale so much. I've run into the misfortune of planar magnetics hitting a ceiling in general when it comes to scaling. Even at headfi meets when I'd run into an Audeze LCD-4z or an equivalent, several people would find that the likes of Abyss 1266 would hit a ceiling where it either 1) no longer is able to scale or 2) the headphone starts showing you the flaws of your gear or 3) the gear starts showing you the flaws of the Abyss 1266 Phi TC. I say this because I definitely stuck it on some setups that sounded completely gross with it, and Abyss definitely was revealing enough to let me know that the setup wasn't on par with its standards. HOWEVER, on the flipside, I stuck Abyss on some outstanding setups. The issue? A pair of Sennheiser HD580s or HD650s would keep scaling indefinitely on the same incredible setups, while Abyss (and other planars of the like) would hit a ceiling cap where they felt like they couldn't scale any further. On the contrary, I feel as though the setups that actually worked best with it were my Linear Tube Audio Z10 / Bricasti M3 dac, however, that is because the tube amp softened the harsh decay, somehow somewhat semi-corrected the metallic/plasticky tin can timbre (but also not entirely), and made it extremely enjoyable by masking a lot of the issues and somewhat filling in the hollow abyssal lack of midrange.
> 
> ...


Tell us how you really feel.


----------



## vonBaron

The key to a good 1266 sound is to put them correctly on your head otherwise they may just sound bad. This is more important than a DAC, AMP or cable.


----------



## Frankie D

leftside said:


> Tell us how you really feel.


😂


----------



## Frankie D

Jeweltopia said:


> Honestly, I agree with this review of the Abyss 1266 Phi TC. I auditioned the original several years ago, had the Abyss 1266 Phi TC on demo (twice) for extended periods, and even owned the Abyss 1266 Phi TC for a while before I wanted to chuck it out a window. Amps / dacs used were: GS-X Mini, Linear Tube Audio Z10 (I've run into several people online and a small few in person who have heard Abyss on both Woo Audio WA33 and LTA Z10, and even said they preferred my LTA Z10, so take that with a grain of salt), the balanced headphone amp on my Bricasti M3h amp/dac combo, SuSy Dynahi, various speaker amps (at headfi meets), and DACs used were: Bricasti M3, Chord TT2, Schiit Yggdrasil (two different versions), as well as a plethora of other random amps/dacs that I've come across at different headfi meets.
> 
> Conclusion? Wow, just wow. I made the mistake of purchasing the Abyss 1266 Phi TC BEFORE having the pleasure of sticking my $400 Sennheiser HD650s on my new setup. My taste of "what's good" has been evolving since I was pretty much an infant, since my father (a seasoned audiophile / electrical engineer) instilled the love of music and gear into me. I'm pretty sure that he somehow had me listening to speakers and headphones in the womb somehow, but I digress. I was impressed with Abyss 1266 Phi TC's parlor tricks for some time until I realized that the party trick wore off way too quickly. For starters, a lot of people argue that the better the setup = the better these will sound. How? I have thrown these onto dozens of various amp/dac combinations and they only scale so much. I've run into the misfortune of planar magnetics hitting a ceiling in general when it comes to scaling. Even at headfi meets when I'd run into an Audeze LCD-4z or an equivalent, several people would find that the likes of Abyss 1266 would hit a ceiling where it either 1) no longer is able to scale or 2) the headphone starts showing you the flaws of your gear or 3) the gear starts showing you the flaws of the Abyss 1266 Phi TC. I say this because I definitely stuck it on some setups that sounded completely gross with it, and Abyss definitely was revealing enough to let me know that the setup wasn't on par with its standards. HOWEVER, on the flipside, I stuck Abyss on some outstanding setups. The issue? A pair of Sennheiser HD580s or HD650s would keep scaling indefinitely on the same incredible setups, while Abyss (and other planars of the like) would hit a ceiling cap where they felt like they couldn't scale any further. On the contrary, I feel as though the setups that actually worked best with it were my Linear Tube Audio Z10 / Bricasti M3 dac, however, that is because the tube amp softened the harsh decay, somehow somewhat semi-corrected the metallic/plasticky tin can timbre (but also not entirely), and made it extremely enjoyable by masking a lot of the issues and somewhat filling in the hollow abyssal lack of midrange.
> 
> ...


That’s cool. We all have different likes and hear a bit different.  You can use this info to realize you do not share much in common with many of us on this thread.  In other words, take our posts with a grain of salt and pay more attention to others who might have similar taste as you ( you can usually figure that out over time ).  

My time with the 1266 was almost the polar opposite at CanJam NY as I preferred it to everything else at the show powered by the WA33.  Many other attendees felt the same. Others like the Sus, STAX 9000( this sounded great to me as well), etc.  Pick your poison. The one thing they all have in common, you spend some money.  Some quickly, and others might take a bit longer, but they sink a hook and reel us in!


----------



## leftside

vonBaron said:


> The key to a good 1266 sound is to put them correctly on your head otherwise they may just sound bad. This is more important than a DAC, AMP or cable.


Took me a week and the sharing of some YouTube videos by the good folks on here before I got them "right". I too was underwhelmed during my first few listens.


----------



## Somatic

Looking for a mini xlr to female 3.5mm adapter so I can use my Susvara cable with the 1266 PHi TC without having to switch cables etc. Any ideas on something that is good quality? Thanks.


----------



## mitchb

Affinityadapters on ebay make excellent quality adapters.


----------



## ufospls2

If anyone is looking for a _somewhat_ more affordable all in one for the 1266TC (or the Diana's also I suppose) and want something relatively small, and capable, I'd recommend checking out the newer iFi Pro iDSD Signature. From the 4.4mm output you get 4200mw into 16 ohms, as well as 0, 9, 18db gain options. Two tube modes, as well as the SS mode. Very capable DAC, but its all in one nature is also very attractive. If you just want something thats all in one, small enough to neatly fit on a desktop, sounds good, its very much worth checking out  : )

Wouldn't recommend for the Susvara, but works nicely with the TC.


----------



## vonBaron

Signature iDSD is more powerful than standard iDSD? Because before Sonnet i have 1st gen iDSD and it was pretty weak.


----------



## ufospls2

vonBaron said:


> Signature iDSD is more powerful than standard iDSD? Because before Sonnet i have 1st gen iDSD and it was pretty weak.


4200mw into 16ohms from the 4.4mm output. Less from the 1/4". Not a huge difference, the 2.5mm models of the first gen did 4000mw into 16ohms.


----------



## vonBaron

But this 4W was from max gain i assume?


----------



## ufospls2

vonBaron said:


> But this 4W was from max gain i assume?


Not sure. Does it matter? It's very easy to just switch the gain levels via the switch on the front.

I used both the 9db and 18db gain options with the 1266, 18db just gives you more headroom to work with.

I'm not saying its the end all be all for the 1266, just that as a fairly compact, all in one DAC/Amp, it's very capable and sounds good with the 1266.


----------



## vonBaron

Sure, Pro iDSD is great all in one box, but AMP quite limit DAC capable.


----------



## paradoxper

leftside said:


> Tell us how you really feel.


Oh, I'd love to read another page of epilogue.


----------



## vonBaron

Now I have a chance to listen to the Dian TC and hell it's really a compact 1266. But a better cable is a must, the stock is too dry and harsh for me.


----------



## ra990

vonBaron said:


> Now I have a chance to listen to the Dian TC and hell it's really a compact 1266. But a better cable is a must, the stock is too dry and harsh for me.


Similar tonality, with less width in the soundstage?


----------



## vonBaron

That's right!


----------



## F208Frank

What are typical delivery times have people been getting from Abyss from order to receival?

Thanks.


----------



## vonBaron

I got mine in two weeks, ultra fast!


----------



## F208Frank

vonBaron said:


> I got mine in two weeks, ultra fast!



When did you buy yours?


----------



## vonBaron

In USA.


----------



## paradoxper

F208Frank said:


> What are typical delivery times have people been getting from Abyss from order to receival?
> 
> Thanks.


Two months nominal. Ordering direct from Abyss will give a slight priority over ordering through a dealer.


----------



## Somatic

Slim1970 said:


> Was listening to my TC’s out of the TT2’s XLR outputs and I was surprised just how good they sounded. In fact, it’s was so good that I’m rethinking my external amplification needs all together.


This just happened to me ... did some A/B with rear XLR of TT2 and the AHB2 and I felt the TT2 sounded more transparent and emotive.


----------



## Somatic

ra990 said:


> It's good you did that. It is very easy to be blown away by new gear, our brain plays tricks on us. My first impression with the Pass Labs XA25 was WOW, then after a week I switched back to the TT2's XLR outs and realized most of it was in my head because it sounded great and I didn't miss the XA25. You have to switch back after the honeymoon period to really determine objectively if the new gear adds significant changes that you need/want.
> 
> The TT2's XLR outs deliver ~7watts to the Abyss, that's no joke. Adding another amp and hearing all kinds of wonderful things is fine, but you're hearing the amp's character, and introducing color (tasteful distortion) into the path. The TT2 has more than enough power for the Abyss (and I know power isn't everything, that's my point).


I had the same thing happen to me after using the AHB2 for 6 months. Switched to the Rear XLR of the TT2 and was surprised by the amount of bass I was getting with susvara. I got a more transparent sound that was closer to the source. The AHB2 smoothed out the music slightly and gave it a warmer tint but felt a little more separation from the music.


----------



## Somatic

Slim1970 said:


> Agreed, the TT2's XLR outputs are really, really good. I had to be honest with myself and admit that they are just as good or better than the majority of amps I've owned.


Its hard to admit. Love having a nice power amp in my headfi system, without having one physically around is a little depressing lol.


----------



## Somatic

ra990 said:


> Another night of listening and, for me, the TT2 XLR outs are preferable to the Etude for the Abyss. As soon as I switched to the TT2 direct there was a nice layer of _nothing _between me and the music. It's what I found with the last amp I tried as well. The aspect I appreciate the most from the Abyss is the ability to hear deep into any mix, so I suspect this will always be the ideal combo _for me_. Amps may modify the sound to your preference but if transparency is your goal, then skip the amp and plug directly into the TT2. I would even use the SE out but I frequently work with my own music pre-mixing that has very low volume till boosted and I need the extra headroom XLR balanced offers.


#transparencyGANG


----------



## deuter

Has someone tried vacuuming the drivers on the Abyss 1266.


----------



## ra990

deuter said:


> Has someone tried vacuuming the drivers on the Abyss 1266.


Do you have a hair or something in there? I would be way too scared to go near the drivers with the force of a vacuum or compressed air. Others have successfully opened up the driver housing to clean it, but I wouldn't do anything like that unless you think there's a good reason to. Abyss will typically recommend you send the headphones to them for inspection in case of any issues (after blaming all your downstream equipment first...hehehe, have plenty of experience with that).


----------



## vonBaron

I very enjoy Diana TC with SC cable, detali and resolution are the same as on 1266 TC. Biggest difference is soundstage and bass quantity.


----------



## vonBaron

I definitely enjoy Diana TC more than LCD-5, just another league.


----------



## Slim1970

vonBaron said:


> I definitely enjoy Diana TC more than LCD-5, just another league.


Do you think it's worth having the Diana TC's if you have the AB-1266 TC's?


----------



## vonBaron

If you want portable version of 1266 im sure it worth having both.


----------



## Slim1970

vonBaron said:


> If you want portable version of 1266 im sure it worth having both.


Hmmm, TC sound on the go is very intriguing .


----------



## Somatic

Slim1970 said:


> Hmmm, TC sound on the go is very intriguing .


@Sajid Amit was rocking a TC off his DAP. Said it sounded good.


----------



## paradoxper

Slim1970 said:


> Do you think it's worth having the Diana TC's if you have the AB-1266 TC's?


The Diana TC is definitely of the same cloth as 1266 TC, it is not as technically proficient nor as grand of scale. Big caveat is very temperamental comfort.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Ahem you forgot the BASS


----------



## paradoxper (Apr 7, 2022)

PhazeCrive said:


> Ahem you forgot the BASS


For the representative package of Diana TC, it does bass quite well. Nothing equals 1266 bass.


----------



## vonBaron (Apr 7, 2022)

I think mids on Diana are more forward than on 1266.

Yep, Diana have quality bass but quantity is still 1266 ace.


----------



## paradoxper

vonBaron said:


> I think mids on Diana are more forward than on 1266.
> 
> Yep, Diana have quality bass but quantity is still 1266 ace.


Agree. Advantage of closing everything in by comparison you get a very tight package. This what the Utopia aimed to be IMO.


----------



## vonBaron

Btw Bulid quality is great, just like on 1266. I love this magnetic sliders.


----------



## Somatic

Do you guys find the Susvara anemic in comparison to the TC? Less dynamic? Read through the old posts already. If one has the TC why would one still keep the Susvara's? Just for the mid range? HD600s have great mid range as well ... curious on thoughts ...


----------



## Dynamo5561

Somatic said:


> Do you guys find the Susvara anemic in comparison to the TC? Less dynamic? Read through the old posts already. If one has the TC why would one still keep the Susvara's? Just for the mid range? HD600s have great mid range as well ... curious on thoughts ...


Susvara has a natural representation of music with a very realistic timbre. The TC has an industrial timbre and is more fun. Both complement each other very well. Also they excel in different genres (but both work with nearly all genres).


----------



## vonBaron

Somatic said:


> Do you guys find the Susvara anemic in comparison to the TC? Less dynamic? Read through the old posts already. If one has the TC why would one still keep the Susvara's? Just for the mid range? HD600s have great mid range as well ... curious on thoughts ...


Anemic no but little boring compare to TC


----------



## paradoxper

Somatic said:


> Do you guys find the Susvara anemic in comparison to the TC? Less dynamic? Read through the old posts already. If one has the TC why would one still keep the Susvara's? Just for the mid range? HD600s have great mid range as well ... curious on thoughts ...


Middleground. If you want the superior midrange and supplemental resolution you run electrostats. If you want reference timbre you run Valkyria. The Susvara really occupies an interesting sweet spot. And it's not near limp and boring as the Stealth.


----------



## qboogie

paradoxper said:


> Middleground. If you want the superior midrange and supplemental resolution you run electrostats. If you want reference timbre you run Valkyria. The Susvara really occupies an interesting sweet spot. And it's not near limp and boring as the Stealth.


Haha always finding a way to dump on that poor little Stealth


----------



## paradoxper (Apr 7, 2022)

qboogie said:


> Haha always finding a way to dump on that poor little Stealth


All is fair game.

I mean Jewel wrote a ****ing dissertation. LOL


----------



## vonBaron

I was curious how the converters from the 1266 TC would sound in a more compact version and it is very good! If someone does not like 1266 because of their convenience, feel free to try Dian, they are very comfortable. They stand at a very high level when it comes to sound, in many respects it is the 1266 slim version. Dynamics, speed, resolution and detail are identical to the 1266 TC. The only place where the 1266 has an advantage is the size of the sound stage and the amount of bass, because the quality is great. The general sound signature is also a copy of the older brother. The diana's are well done, the CNC machined shells make a very good impression, the leather headband and my favorite carbon / magnet spacing. Interestingly, they sound very good with the SC cable where I did not like the 1266 so much, a clear plus difference compared to the basic one. I recently listened to the LCD-5 and they are getting quite a bang from the Dian TC. Starting from Comfortable where Audeze is less comfortable due to much more pressure on the earcups. Diana's sound straight out of the box is even, more musical and fuller. The aforementioned build quality is also on the Abyss side. If I didn't have the 1266, I would definitely drop the net on Diana TC, when it comes to headphones so small with very good comfort and great sound, it seems to me that Diana has no competition, although it should be borne in mind that they are as difficult to drive as the 1266.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

vonBaron said:


> I was curious how the converters from the 1266 TC would sound in a more compact version and it is very good! If someone does not like 1266 because of their convenience, feel free to try Dian, they are very comfortable. They stand at a very high level when it comes to sound, in many respects it is the 1266 slim version. Dynamics, speed, resolution and detail are identical to the 1266 TC. The only place where the 1266 has an advantage is the size of the sound stage and the amount of bass, because the quality is great. The general sound signature is also a copy of the older brother. The diana's are well done, the CNC machined shells make a very good impression, the leather headband and my favorite carbon / magnet spacing. Interestingly, they sound very good with the SC cable where I did not like the 1266 so much, a clear plus difference compared to the basic one. I recently listened to the LCD-5 and they are getting quite a bang from the Dian TC. Starting from Comfortable where Audeze is less comfortable due to much more pressure on the earcups. Diana's sound straight out of the box is even, more musical and fuller. The aforementioned build quality is also on the Abyss side. If I didn't have the 1266, I would definitely drop the net on Diana TC, when it comes to headphones so small with very good comfort and great sound, it seems to me that Diana has no competition, although it should be borne in mind that they are as difficult to drive as the 1266.


Nice impression.

Many forget that DTC actually hard to drive headphone because they thought about older generation of Diana. Diana Phi in comparison, felt easier to drive not by small margin.


----------



## vonBaron

Diana TC are minimal less harder to drive than 1266 TC.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Somatic said:


> Do you guys find the Susvara anemic in comparison to the TC? Less dynamic? Read through the old posts already. If one has the TC why would one still keep the Susvara's? Just for the mid range? HD600s have great mid range as well ... curious on thoughts ...



Definitely not anemic, but yea the midrange is the main contrasting plus. And it's a touch warmer. I really enjoyed them together when I had the Susvara. A lot of people do happily own both.


----------



## simorag (Apr 7, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Do you guys find the Susvara anemic in comparison to the TC? Less dynamic? Read through the old posts already. If one has the TC why would one still keep the Susvara's? Just for the mid range? HD600s have great mid range as well ... curious on thoughts ...



I really enjoyed the Susvara when I owned one (more details in my signature), to the point that the Sus would probably be my choice if I were forced to have only _one_ hp. They are extremely well balanced headphones with no obvious weaknesses, if properly amped. A fantastic all-rounder indeed.

However, an AB-1266 combined with the Superconductor cable and some quality tube flavor comes decently close to where the Susvara excel to my ears, while offering some truly special tricks as a bonus (sub bass oomph / tactility, theatrical staging, for example) that no other headphones I tried could provide, Susvara included.

For my tastes, having the luxury of owning multiple headphones, the SR1a and the Valkyria, each in their own way, deliver a more compelling complementary experience to the Abyss.


----------



## vonBaron

There is some pad position on DTC to increase amount of bass?


----------



## jlbrach

simorag said:


> I really enjoyed the Susvara when I owned one (more details in my signature), to the point that the Sus would probably be my choice if I were forced to have only _one_ hp. They are extremely well balanced headphones with no obvious weaknesses, if properly amped. A fantastic all-rounder indeed.
> 
> However, an AB-1266 combined with the Superconductor cable and some quality tube flavor comes decently close to where the Susvara excel to my ears, while offering some truly special tricks as a bonus (sub bass oomph / tactility, theatrical staging, for example) that no other headphones I tried could provide, Susvara included.
> 
> For my tastes, having the luxury of owning multiple headphones, the SR1a and the Valkyria, each in their own way, deliver a more compelling complementary experience to the Abyss.


personally I have the susvara and the sria and I find them both great but the sr1a is the most unique HP I have ever heard...the most different from anything else I have heard...in fact I always try not to listen to it during the same day as any other HP because it is so different I literally a day to get used to it or used to whatever I listen to after the sria...wild


----------



## sloomingbla

Has anyone here compared the audeze crbn to the 1266’s yet? Purely out of curiosity


----------



## Ciggavelli

sloomingbla said:


> Has anyone here compared the audeze crbn to the 1266’s yet? Purely out of curiosity


Yes.  The 1266 is better at basically everything.  You might like the tone better on the CRBN, if you like the audeze way of doing things.  The mids might be a bit better on the CRBN too, but not to a large degree


----------



## Trance_Gott (Apr 8, 2022)

sloomingbla said:


> Has anyone here compared the audeze crbn to the 1266’s yet? Purely out of curiosity


The 1266 TC has a wider soundstage and the visceral impact no other headphone can reach.
In all other aspects CRBN is clear the winner! More accurate, better mids the absolute best mids, a holographic soundstage especially in deep I never heared with any other headphone.
In the end I love both!


----------



## deuter

simorag said:


> I really enjoyed the Susvara when I owned one (more details in my signature), to the point that the Sus would probably be my choice if I were forced to have only _one_ hp. They are extremely well balanced headphones with no obvious weaknesses, if properly amped. A fantastic all-rounder indeed.
> 
> However, an AB-1266 combined with the Superconductor cable and some quality tube flavor comes decently close to where the Susvara excel to my ears, while offering some truly special tricks as a bonus (sub bass oomph / tactility, theatrical staging, for example) that no other headphones I tried could provide, Susvara included.
> 
> For my tastes, having the luxury of owning multiple headphones, the SR1a and the Valkyria, each in their own way, deliver a more compelling complementary experience to the Abyss.


I would recommend trying the 1266 with the Formula S and Powerman.
It changes the beast.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Ciggavelli said:


> Yes.  The 1266 is better at basically everything.  You might like the tone better on the CRBN, if you like the audeze way of doing things.  The mids might be a bit better on the CRBN too, but not to a large degree



Agree here. CRBN is a step behind in most categories, with tone being really enjoyable and the mids probably a touch more prominent. I have it just one slight tier behind where I hold the Susvara/TC/Sr1a/009. But still really enjoyable and good. I would say the Susvara is probably a better complement to the TC imo.


----------



## JLoud

If you want a estat to compliment the TC I would recommend the Shangra la jr. It sounds very close to the Susvara.


----------



## sloomingbla

Not exactly looking for a new headphone, currently very happy with my TCs haha. Just asking out of curiosity, thank you for the responses!


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 8, 2022)

Just received my TC (second pair, as I sold first pair when leaving hobby)

Man I did miss this thing.... enjoying:

Youth - Glass Animals

When the retail of the Abyss back then was 5K, it actually came with that wooden box with a green wooden cover. My new Abyss (now higher retail price) now comes with a different simpler box; anyone else experience this with their recent purchases? 

I do no mind at all or care, but was just something that threw me off a bit as it wasn't expected when unboxing.

Still to date, my favorite pair of headphones of all time, with biases and all. =)


----------



## Roasty

F208Frank said:


> Just received my TC (second pair, as I sold first pair when leaving hobby)
> 
> Man I did miss this thing.... enjoying:
> 
> ...



your box is because.. u got a b stock refurbished unit.. 



Lol just kidding.


----------



## F208Frank

Roasty said:


> your box is because.. u got a b stock refurbished unit..
> 
> 
> 
> Lol just kidding.


HOLYYYYYY, when I read the top portion of the reply, I almost had a heart attack.


----------



## jaxt4r

for those who drive the 1266 off a speaker amp, do you guys use any adapter like the hifiman he adapter?


----------



## Sajid Amit (Apr 9, 2022)

JLoud said:


> If you want a estat to compliment the TC I would recommend the Shangra la jr. It sounds very close to the Susvara.


+1

Obvious caveat being what the headphone feels like in the hands. Not a big deal for many. But it felt shockingly cheap, even for Hifiman.

Let me also balance that by saying it is the most underrated e-stat in the market and an absolute joy to listen to. Near-perfect tonality, IMO. It's got a bit more lower treble than the Susvara, but I usually welcome that in e-stats as long as its tastefully done.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Apr 9, 2022)

jaxt4r said:


> for those who drive the 1266 off a speaker amp, do you guys use any adapter like the hifiman he adapter?


Never.

I risk it with my Accuphase e380. Lol.

The staging is damn grandiose, the midrange has a hint of sweetness, and oh, the grunt and slam. Of course, that's the Accuphase in action, not necessarily the lack of the adapter. 

But many use the HE-adapter and some hear differences because of it and others don't, is what I have gathered.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Somatic said:


> @Sajid Amit was rocking a TC off his DAP. Said it sounded good.



Sounded good for sure, TC always sounds good.

But the M17 is the DAP to get if you want to be portable with the TC. Off the over-ear mode, you might max the volume, and of course, you compromise the TC's potential for viscerality, staging, razor sharp imaging, resolution, etc., but it's a really really good listen nonetheless on the M17. 

I couldn't give you a percentage figure in terms of how close the TC gets to its full potential, but the key thing here is that the M17 sound, which is on the smoother and euphonic side of things, synergizes really well with the TC.


----------



## Articnoise

Sajid Amit said:


> Sounded good for sure, TC always sounds good.
> 
> But the M17 is the DAP to get if you want to be portable with the TC. Off the over-ear mode, you might max the volume, and of course, you compromise the TC's potential for viscerality, staging, razor sharp imaging, resolution, etc., but it's a really really good listen nonetheless on the M17.
> 
> I couldn't give you a percentage figure in terms of how close the TC gets to its full potential, but the key thing here is that the M17 sound, which is on the smoother and euphonic side of things, synergizes really well with the TC.



I agree it's a great DAP but I would not say that the M17 is on the euphonic side, my friend.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Apr 9, 2022)

Articnoise said:


> I agree it's a great DAP but I would not say that the M17 is on the euphonic side, my friend.


Okay, that's cool. 

I find it smooth-sounding and even “towards the euphonic side" with my Utopia and the TC. Smooth for sure. 

Of course, references matter. Not as euphonic as a stereotypical tube amp, but euphonic compared to some ESS-based DAPs. It makes my A&K 2000T sound a bit dry (but I still like my AK 2000T with my Legend EVOs).

I also find that with the same headphones, e.g. the Utopia, I subconsciously gravitate towards vocal based genres with the M17 but more aggressive genres with the A&K 2000T.

Do you like the M17 with the TC?


----------



## jaxt4r

Sajid Amit said:


> Never.
> 
> I risk it with my Accuphase e380. Lol.
> 
> ...


Thanks mate. I am exactly thinking of an Accuphase amp. 
Another question is whether to hot plug the headphone. Some suggest never plug/unplug it before turning on the amp. Some say never hot plug it. This confuses me a lot as this might cause blowing the headphone up because of the power surge.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Apr 9, 2022)

jaxt4r said:


> Thanks mate. I am exactly thinking of an Accuphase amp.
> Another question is whether to hot plug the headphone. Some suggest never plug/unplug it before turning on the amp. Some say never hot plug it. This confuses me a lot as this might cause blowing the headphone up because of the power surge.


In this case, best to talk to the manufacturer, as I, too, have come across conflicting opinions.

With the Accuphase, hot plugging is fine, making sure the volume is turned all the way down.

Feel free to reconfirm with Accuphase. They are usually quite responsive.


----------



## jaxt4r

Sajid Amit said:


> In this case, best to talk to the manufacturer, as I, too, have come across conflicting opinions.
> 
> With the Accuphase, hot plugging is fine, making sure the volume is turned all the way down.
> 
> Feel free to reconfirm with Accuphase. They are usually quite responsive.


Cool. Gonna give them an email tomorrow.
 You too are using the holo dac? Is that May?
I am using spring 3. Wonderful sound.


----------



## Sajid Amit

jaxt4r said:


> Cool. Gonna give them an email tomorrow.
> You too are using the holo dac? Is that May?
> I am using spring 3. Wonderful sound.


Yup.

Been using hqplayer with the May after a bit of nudging from @GoldenOne 

So impressed. 

What an insane value proposition hqplayer is.


----------



## eee1111 (Apr 9, 2022)

Sajid Amit said:


> Yup.
> 
> Been using hqplayer with the May after a bit of nudging from @GoldenOne
> 
> ...


Oh hell yeah

Makes the May a bit better huh

You try 1.5mhz pcm. It’s crazy the detail it can pull but I’ve been doing 768 a lot recently it seems to be less harsh

Hqplayer can take an average pair of headphones and really pull them up to levels you wouldn’t think are possible


----------



## F208Frank

deuter said:


> I would recommend trying the 1266 with the Formula S and Powerman.
> It changes the beast.


I believe Simorag did try that combo before, he spoke highly of it, but he moved on to better things.

I myself am still using the powerman/sagra/formula S combo and am very very content with it.

Listening to that stack right now matter fact! ^_^


----------



## vonBaron

Change sagra to something different = big upgrade.


----------



## Roasty

recently, I've been doing most of my listening with the Solitaire P and Utopia. and, I was toying with the idea of selling the TC. Thought it was only fair that I would give the TC some decent listening time before coming to a decision. 





well, there are some things that only the TC can do. give it a nice cable, put some tubes somewhere in the chain, a nice speaker amp, and get the fitment good and proper, and the sound is really quite phenomenal. I didn't find the source mattered much with the Abyss; by the time the sound is presented to your ears, it is just so big and bombastic that almost everything sounds enjoyable. 

for a while, I had issues with the mids sounding like they lacked meat/mass, and on some vocal tracks I had this sort of "ears in seashell" sensation. I also had an issue with the imaging and placement, where sometimes the elements in the music didn't seem to originate from a point location but rather a blurry/diffuse source. admittedly it took quite a bit of adjustment with the fit and placement, but I finally found the sweetspot. I realized that I can't have these headphones spread out too far wide; I was going for the least pressure/contact on the sides of my head and spread out the frame arms as wide as I could, and this was indeed a terrible mistake on my part. I reduced the width of the frame spread which reduced the gap between the face and pads and it was a massive improvement. 

I found it amusing that I am now also enjoying jazz, vocals, easy listening music with the TC.. it really is quite good with these genres, equally enjoyable as with my other headphones. 

am glad I'm keeping this headphone around.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Roasty said:


> recently, I've been doing most of my listening with the Solitaire P and Utopia. and, I was toying with the idea of selling the TC. Thought it was only fair that I would give the TC some decent listening time before coming to a decision.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nothing like it on the market.


----------



## eee1111 (Apr 10, 2022)

Roasty said:


> recently, I've been doing most of my listening with the Solitaire P and Utopia. and, I was toying with the idea of selling the TC. Thought it was only fair that I would give the TC some decent listening time before coming to a decision.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You’re set with the TC susvara utopia combo
It covers everything until you dip into estats not that you need to


----------



## Slim1970

Roasty said:


> recently, I've been doing most of my listening with the Solitaire P and Utopia. and, I was toying with the idea of selling the TC. Thought it was only fair that I would give the TC some decent listening time before coming to a decision.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My TC’s aren’t going anywhere. Even with the Solitaire P‘s and Utopia’s in hand, the TC’s are to unique sounding to let go. Glad you are finding joy in the TC’s again.


----------



## normie610

Roasty said:


> I found it amusing that I am now also enjoying jazz, vocals, easy listening music with the TC.. it really is quite good with these genres, equally enjoyable as with my other headphones.


Yes TC sounds great with jazz and also classical, these two are my main genres. I also don’t find the mids lacking, it’s just at the right place and amount. Perhaps it’s because of the 300B preamp or the Vykari cable or both, but TC just sounds right. SR1a and Susvara might have slightly better and more natural timbre, but TC holds its own against the two.


----------



## paradoxper (Apr 10, 2022)

Sajid Amit said:


> Nothing like it on the market.


When you get them right, nothing else quite like it. A similar parallel to stats of a different spectrum.


----------



## Frankie D

Roasty said:


> recently, I've been doing most of my listening with the Solitaire P and Utopia. and, I was toying with the idea of selling the TC. Thought it was only fair that I would give the TC some decent listening time before coming to a decision.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When I auditioned it I was expecting a potential suck out in the vocals from what many were describing on this and other threads.  However it was atleast as good as the Sus in the mids.  I think the issue with the Abyss is the amp and especially the fit.  It is so tweaky which is both good and bad.  When finally set, it is a wow moment.


----------



## Frankie D

eee1111 said:


> You’re set with the TC susvara utopia combo
> It covers everything until you dip into estats not that you need to


How do you compare the STAX 9000 to the Abyss. I enjoyed that allot in my brief time with it. Tks.


----------



## sloomingbla

The fit definitely makes a huge difference. When I first got the tcs I was wowed, but noticed inconsistencies in the bass, and yeah a weird hollowness in the mids that would come and go. After enough tweaking I put the headphones on and went.. OH. Everything’s perfect, lol. 

It’s definitely more complicated than it seems, too. Gotta get the distance right, gotta have your ears more or less centered in the earcups, gotta get a near total seal around the earpads without much pressure, and it’s gotta be comfortable.

If anything I enjoy tinkering with it, still. I have my go to spot but especially on synthy electronic songs that don’t have much realism it can be fun to listen with a wider gap or strange positioning


----------



## PhazeCrive

One thing they don't say is how greatly the temperature affects the bass output. Trust me, when this headphone is cold, you will have literally no bass. Being that my space here is surrounded by windows, the temperature outside is reflected in. I picked up a radiator heater like they recommended and it's been slamming hard and going deep ever since. 

Just in case any were wondering if they're TC isn't going low enough.


----------



## paradoxper

I always pull my TC from the freezer for that bone-chilling performance.

Shrugs.


----------



## jlbrach

somehow I dont see temperature as a big issue with my TC lol


----------



## F208Frank

vonBaron said:


> Change sagra to something different = big upgrade.


What is the main gripe with the Sagra?  I find it good for my use case, I did have a Dave prior.


----------



## Slim1970

F208Frank said:


> What is the main gripe with the Sagra?  I find it good for my use case, I did have a Dave prior.


I thought it was very good in the system with the Formula S/Powerman. On it’s own in a different system there may be some sonic shortcomings compared to the Terminator Pluses, Rockna Wavelight, and Holo May’s in the R2R world.


----------



## F208Frank

Slim1970 said:


> I thought it was very good in the system with the Formula S/Powerman. On it’s own in a different system there may be some sonic shortcomings compared to the Terminator Pluses, Rockna Wavelight, and Holo May’s in the R2R world.


That was kind of what I figured/assumed. I myself never demoed the terminator, rockna, or holo may.

Out of that bunch Holo May interests me the most.


----------



## DJJEZ (Apr 10, 2022)

F208Frank said:


> That was kind of what I figured/assumed. I myself never demoed the terminator, rockna, or holo may.
> 
> *Out of that bunch Holo May interests me the most.*


I highly recommend it. It's easily one of the best dacs under $15K


----------



## vonBaron

Sonnet Pasithea is even better than May KTE.


----------



## Sajid Amit

DJJEZ said:


> I highly recommend it. It's easily one of the best dacs under $15K


+1

And with HQPlayer, becomes quite the DAC to beat


----------



## deuter

I would put Musical Paradise in there too if you like a DAC with a tube output stage like a Lampizator.
https://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=97

I've had several Top DACs your Holo Springs, Lampizator Level 7's, Luxman etc and am still using the Musical Paradise because it just sounds right.
There is no specific sound signature.


----------



## Sajid Amit

deuter said:


> I would put Musical Paradise in there too if you like a DAC with a tube output stage like a Lampizator.
> https://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=97
> 
> I've had several Top DACs your Holo Springs, Lampizator Level 7's, Luxman etc and am still using the Musical Paradise because it just sounds right.
> There is no specific sound signature.


Which Luxman DAC do you like?


----------



## deuter

Sajid Amit said:


> Which Luxman DAC do you like?


DA-06


----------



## eee1111 (Apr 11, 2022)

Frankie D said:


> How do you compare the STAX 9000 to the Abyss. I enjoyed that allot in my brief time with it. Tks.


I really don’t. They’re both their own thing.

Different flavors.

I’ll just say currently I favor estats. Spend a little time with one and switch back and you can appreciate what they’re doing.


----------



## Olmanwood123

Jeweltopia said:


> Honestly, I agree with this review of the Abyss 1266 Phi TC. I auditioned the original several years ago, had the Abyss 1266 Phi TC on demo (twice) for extended periods, and even owned the Abyss 1266 Phi TC for a while before I wanted to chuck it out a window. Amps / dacs used were: GS-X Mini, Linear Tube Audio Z10 (I've run into several people online and a small few in person who have heard Abyss on both Woo Audio WA33 and LTA Z10, and even said they preferred my LTA Z10, so take that with a grain of salt), the balanced headphone amp on my Bricasti M3h amp/dac combo, SuSy Dynahi, various speaker amps (at headfi meets), and DACs used were: Bricasti M3, Chord TT2, Schiit Yggdrasil (two different versions), as well as a plethora of other random amps/dacs that I've come across at different headfi meets.
> 
> Conclusion? Wow, just wow. I made the mistake of purchasing the Abyss 1266 Phi TC BEFORE having the pleasure of sticking my $400 Sennheiser HD650s on my new setup. My taste of "what's good" has been evolving since I was pretty much an infant, since my father (a seasoned audiophile / electrical engineer) instilled the love of music and gear into me. I'm pretty sure that he somehow had me listening to speakers and headphones in the womb somehow, but I digress. I was impressed with Abyss 1266 Phi TC's parlor tricks for some time until I realized that the party trick wore off way too quickly. For starters, a lot of people argue that the better the setup = the better these will sound. How? I have thrown these onto dozens of various amp/dac combinations and they only scale so much. I've run into the misfortune of planar magnetics hitting a ceiling in general when it comes to scaling. Even at headfi meets when I'd run into an Audeze LCD-4z or an equivalent, several people would find that the likes of Abyss 1266 would hit a ceiling where it either 1) no longer is able to scale or 2) the headphone starts showing you the flaws of your gear or 3) the gear starts showing you the flaws of the Abyss 1266 Phi TC. I say this because I definitely stuck it on some setups that sounded completely gross with it, and Abyss definitely was revealing enough to let me know that the setup wasn't on par with its standards. HOWEVER, on the flipside, I stuck Abyss on some outstanding setups. The issue? A pair of Sennheiser HD580s or HD650s would keep scaling indefinitely on the same incredible setups, while Abyss (and other planars of the like) would hit a ceiling cap where they felt like they couldn't scale any further. On the contrary, I feel as though the setups that actually worked best with it were my Linear Tube Audio Z10 / Bricasti M3 dac, however, that is because the tube amp softened the harsh decay, somehow somewhat semi-corrected the metallic/plasticky tin can timbre (but also not entirely), and made it extremely enjoyable by masking a lot of the issues and somewhat filling in the hollow abyssal lack of midrange.
> 
> ...


ok


----------



## Olmanwood123

Somatic said:


> Do you guys find the Susvara anemic in comparison to the TC? Less dynamic? Read through the old posts already. If one has the TC why would one still keep the Susvara's? Just for the mid range? HD600s have great mid range as well ... curious on thoughts ...


Not anemic, but more subtle.


----------



## Olmanwood123

Sajid Amit said:


> Never.
> 
> I risk it with my Accuphase e380. Lol.
> 
> ...


I would think the fewer links in the chain from amp to headphone would reduce the possibility of the signal degrading along one of these "stops" so to speak


----------



## Olmanwood123

F208Frank said:


> That was kind of what I figured/assumed. I myself never demoed the terminator, rockna, or holo may.
> 
> Out of that bunch Holo May interests me the most.


Maybe consider a Weiss DAC? A 501 or 502.....


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 11, 2022)

You know how you sometimes read where Abyss TC 1266 giving that "grand" feeling?

Please listen to this song:

It Don't Matter [Alok and Uhu Remix] by Alok, Sofi Tukker, Inna

The build up to the 1:12 mark, and then just sudden WOW.


----------



## F208Frank

zenlisten said:


> Was this the DELUXE or the COMPLETE set now? The Deluxe doesn't include the Superconductor cables


All I know is that the new abyss headphone sales no longer come with the wooden box with the green wooden lid, but it could have been a one off for me due to supply issues?

Anyone else confirm their brand new Abyss not coming with the wooden box?


----------



## PhazeCrive

F208Frank said:


> All I know is that the new abyss headphone sales no longer come with the wooden box with the green wooden lid, but it could have been a one off for me due to supply issues?
> 
> Anyone else confirm their brand new Abyss not coming with the wooden box?


Mine did not either. Given the recent price increase of the TC I assume the wooden box isn't feasible for them atm.


----------



## PhazeCrive (Apr 12, 2022)

Also, anyone find it weird when you pull the 1266 down, it kinda removes some of the treble but adds a hefty amount of bass? I feel like some details or instruments are harder to hear or are lost when I pull it down from a "centered" position, but the bass heft grows exponentially. Like a minor tradeoff. I settled on 12 o'clock after about 2 months of fiddling with it.

I'm curious as to how you folks optimize the bass. When I pull it wide it begins rolling off and will distort. But pulling it down so it sits lower on my head gives access to that true subby bass.


----------



## Ciggavelli

PhazeCrive said:


> Also, anyone find it weird when you pull the 1266 down, it kinda removes some of the treble but adds a hefty amount of bass? I feel like some details or instruments are harder to hear or are lost when I pull it down from a "centered" position, but the bass heft grows exponentially. Like a minor tradeoff. I settled on 12 o'clock after about 2 months of fiddling with it.
> 
> I'm curious as to how you folks optimize the bass. When I pull it wide it begins rolling off and will distort. But pulling it down so it sits lower on my head gives access to that true subby bass.


Pulling down and toeing out produces the most bass, but it distorts at times with really low notes at a high db level. It’s a fine line. You can also tilt the headphones forward a bit, with the back touching right behind your ears.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Ciggavelli said:


> Pulling down and toeing out produces the most bass, but it distorts at times with really low notes at a high db level. It’s a fine line. You can also tilt the headphones forward a bit, with the back touching right behind your ears.


Yeah. That also seems to alter how the treble is handled. It's a fine trade though.


----------



## vonBaron

PhazeCrive said:


> Also, anyone find it weird when you pull the 1266 down, it kinda removes some of the treble but adds a hefty amount of bass? I feel like some details or instruments are harder to hear or are lost when I pull it down from a "centered" position, but the bass heft grows exponentially. Like a minor tradeoff. I settled on 12 o'clock after about 2 months of fiddling with it.
> 
> I'm curious as to how you folks optimize the bass. When I pull it wide it begins rolling off and will distort. But pulling it down so it sits lower on my head gives access to that true subby bass.


Yes, it's normal thing. I like them that way.


----------



## jaxt4r

Wondering if anyone of you have tried the Hegel integrated amp? Like h190 / h390? Thinking of the H390 for the 1266.

The all-in-one amp with a good enough dac is quite tempting. Reviews from the internet also seem positive.


----------



## F208Frank

PhazeCrive said:


> Mine did not either. Given the recent price increase of the TC I assume the wooden box isn't feasible for them atm.


I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not, I am serious. lol.

Regardless as mentioned, I do not really mind as I do love their headphone dearly.

As mentioned prior, was just a bit caught off guard when unpacking as my new Abyss 2 years back had the wooden box.


----------



## genefruit

F208Frank said:


> I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not, I am serious. lol.
> 
> Regardless as mentioned, I do not really mind as I do love their headphone dearly.
> 
> As mentioned prior, was just a bit caught off guard when unpacking as my new Abyss 2 years back had the wooden box.


If you would be so kind, could you provide a picture of what the packaging materials look like now?  As a former owner who thought the box was a nice touch but completely useless, I wouldn't mind the change if/when I purchase again.  Thank you in advance.


----------



## F208Frank

genefruit said:


> If you would be so kind, could you provide a picture of what the packaging materials look like now?  As a former owner who thought the box was a nice touch but completely useless, I wouldn't mind the change if/when I purchase again.  Thank you in advance.


I repackaged the box back into its original outter cardboard box and threw it in long term storage unfortunately. I have massive OCD in terms of organizing so this would not be convenient for me as it is miles away from me at the moment. The new packaging is just simple, I have no gripes about it at all. If anything, I sort of felt when I saw the wooden box years ago, I feel like some of my money went to paying for that box!

Sorry!


----------



## sloomingbla

Speaking of deep sub bass... Mannequin skywalker by space jesus has a pretty incredible bass drop about 15 seconds in, and throughout. Scared me lol


----------



## vonBaron

I have had the chance to listen to the 1266 with SC a second time and now they sound clearly better than the first time. Very strong bass, weighted midrange and very detailed but quite gentle trebles.


----------



## paradoxper

vonBaron said:


> I have had the chance to listen to the 1266 with SC a second time and now they sound clearly better than the first time. Very strong bass, weighted midrange and very detailed but quite gentle trebles.


I don't recall, what cable(s) have been used previously?


----------



## vonBaron

I have Lazuli Ultra.


----------



## Roasty

sloomingbla said:


> Speaking of deep sub bass... Mannequin skywalker by space jesus has a pretty incredible bass drop about 15 seconds in, and throughout. Scared me lol






this album is really nice with the abyss too. awesome bass lines and overall just a really enjoyable album. I turn up the volume in the car on the way to work.


----------



## mortcola

jlbrach said:


> is this a serious post?...you are going to make a buying decision regarding TOTL HP's based upon this guys opinion of the original abyss 1266?...seriously?....personally I dont think the guy has a clue but he has a right to his opinion but his whole critique is kind of ridiculous...my suggestion is to give the 1266 TC a listen on a proper system and my guess is you will end up owning them


The Abyss is a GREAT headphone with its own rather definite character, but quite extraordinary. It couldn't be any. more different from the Stax (well, maybe, but they're very, very distinct. Comparing apples and ham sandwiches based on a single online, rather...ummm...idiosyncratic opinion? I hope Aramg hasn't acted on it yet....or, at least, I hope he's happy with his choice.


----------



## Ruddy1 (Apr 14, 2022)

I finally finished the final headphone system, which is the best headphone system I've ever heard


----------



## Sajid Amit (Apr 14, 2022)

jaxt4r said:


> Wondering if anyone of you have tried the Hegel integrated amp? Like h190 / h390? Thinking of the H390 for the 1266.
> 
> The all-in-one amp with a good enough dac is quite tempting. Reviews from the internet also seem positive.


I have. The H190 pairs better with the Susvara IMO. Its warmer in the treble but the TC benefits more from an amp that adds a bit of euphony to the mids. YMMV. I prefer Accuphase / Luxman with the TC. One could consider McIntosh as well, as some McIntosh amps can be “midcentric”.

As for the Hegel built-in DAC, its good but not nearly as resolving as a mDave / Terminator Plus / May + HQPlayer. The mDave is a tad more resolving than the TPlus or MayHQP but they are all close, and the built-in DAC in the Hegel is not as close. 

But its good value as an all-in-one for sure.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Somatic

Ruddy1 said:


> I finally finished the final headphone system, which is the best headphone system I've ever heard


Can you list what you got? Thanks


----------



## Ruddy1

Somatic said:


> Can you list what you got? Thanks


47lab 4706Gaincard  50w
amr cd77.1
ele v4
Abyss 1266

Tara Labs The Omega Live
Kondo Audio ACZ Avocad
feim audio semyr
 oyaide  Tunami Terzo RR  V2
dreamline

SOLID TECH ROS3


----------



## paradoxper

That's the best headphone system you've ever heard. 

Sorry to be a dick, but the gaincard isn't anything special.

I'm reminded of the ole Dark Star rage though. LOL


----------



## qboogie

Ruddy1 said:


> I finally finished the final headphone system, which is the best headphone system I've ever heard


That's a gorgeous set-up. Was the black and silver motif intentional?


----------



## Ruddy1 (Apr 14, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> That's the best headphone system you've ever heard.
> 
> Sorry to be a dick, but the gaincard isn't anything special.
> 
> I'm reminded of the ole Dark Star rage though. LOL


I'm sorry


----------



## Ruddy1

I chose gaincard because it is the best I have ever heard. Liquid gold 394wa33 and AIC10 are not as good as it. I don't need to use worse ones


----------



## Trance_Gott

Ruddy1 said:


> I finally finished the final headphone system, which is the best headphone system I've ever heard


Abyss better sounded that your HE1 or is the HE1 on the photo not yours?


----------



## paradoxper

Ruddy1 said:


> I chose gaincard because it is the best I have ever heard. Liquid gold 394wa33 and AIC10 are not as good as it. I don't need to use worse ones


I don't know what a 394wa33 is, but ok, all things imaginary, a definitive subjective preference all the same.


----------



## genefruit

paradoxper said:


> I don't know what a 394wa33 is, but ok, all things imaginary, a definitive subjective preference all the same.


MIght be typos and means a http://www.masskobo.com/e/sale-e/m394.htm and a wa33.


----------



## DisguisedPikachu

Ruddy1 said:


> I'm sorry


As a weeb I really admire your setup


----------



## simorag

Every once in a while, it is worth stating the obvious (or perhaps it's just my take on it ) ... _the_ _best_ headphones system really depends on the music.

Just as an example, with this:






the Valkyria very literally _slashes_ the AB-1266 to death, while with this:





is about the other way around.

Speaking of absolute bests in hifi is not only desperately subjective, but also trying to hit a moving target IMO.

Luckily, one big plus of head-fi over 2 channel is just the option of having multiple setups at hand btw.


----------



## DJJEZ

simorag said:


> Every once in a while, it is worth stating the obvious (or perhaps it's just my take on it ) ... _the_ _best_ headphones system really depends on the music.
> 
> Just as an example, with this:
> 
> ...


Huge fan of gogo penguin


----------



## F208Frank

simorag said:


> Every once in a while, it is worth stating the obvious (or perhaps it's just my take on it ) ... _the_ _best_ headphones system really depends on the music.
> 
> Just as an example, with this:
> 
> ...


Anyone else always feel that most of the things Simorag says always sound like really well articulated poetry and always hits it RIGHT on the nail?

Thanks for reminding me about gogo penguin, my dear friend John Litig put me on them!


----------



## deuter

Ruddy1 said:


> I finally finished the final headphone system, which is the best headphone system I've ever heard


You just need a headphone stand now, check the ones from Woo Audio.
Also the angle of your picture doesn’t show your equipment the way we can identify it. Would you mind doing a retake?


----------



## PhazeCrive (Apr 14, 2022)

Got a somewhat respectable stack now consisting of the TC, gustard x26pro dac and burston GT amp and honestly I can't hear a difference compared to, let's say my phone.

The biggest change was the amp, and even that was really small. I ran a 3.5mm to dual RCA from my Asus monitor to my Burson GT and that seemed to change the way the bass sounded. More clean with a very slight boost in the deepest parts of the bass. Not a huge change, but that's one of the only things I noticed. The cleanliness of the bass.

Now do away with the monitor and in it's place we have the gustard DAC and really I don't hear much difference. Running the TC right out of the monitor sounds like 95% the same. I'll have more volume from the amp but it was already going deep and loud before from monitor's 3.5mm out. Guess I've hit my ceiling as a listener.

And with the TC changing its sound depending on temperature and how it sits on your head, being a glasses user I am, I find it really hard to pinpoint what part of the chain is responsible for what I hear.


----------



## jlbrach

you listen to your TC out of your phone?..seriously?


----------



## PhazeCrive (Apr 14, 2022)

Yeah, when I first had it 2 months ago and nothing to use it on. Even on that it still sounded better than everything, including the Clear and V2 off of actual amps. But that doesn't matter now.

I'm under the impression you'll only see a real difference in performance if you have truly summit fi equipment, but to call myself unsatisfied with what I hear now would be quite a statement. It's great, I guess my expectations were too high. We're in the dimishing returns price range anyway.


----------



## jlbrach

good luck


----------



## rangerid

PhazeCrive said:


> Got a somewhat respectable stack now consisting of the TC, gustard x26pro dac and burston GT amp and honestly I can't hear a difference compared to, let's say my phone.
> 
> The biggest change was the amp, and even that was really small. I ran a 3.5mm to dual RCA from my Asus monitor to my Burson GT and that seemed to change the way the bass sounded. More clean with a very slight boost in the deepest parts of the bass. Not a huge change, but that's one of the only things I noticed. The cleanliness of the bass.
> 
> ...


Take some time to enjoy your new setup and don't stress too much about being able to hear a difference or not. If it's your first time getting a full desktop setup it may take some getting used to. I remember getting my first 5k tube amp and thinking it sounded exactly the same as my laptop output, just more power and didn't have to turn up the volume so much. 

Spend a good week listening continuously, not A/B'ing the two setups every minute or something, then switch back to your phone, you may be surprised. For many instances with high end gear, I found the best way to appreciate and notice improvements is actually when it's taken away, not added.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Yeah. I'll get used to it. Then A-B in a week or two. Realizing what you don't have is a real thing for sure. Because when I put on my old HD560s I'm like "damn this thing sucks in almost every conceivable sense. No amount of electronics will "add" to what it wasn't doing.


----------



## Somatic

ken6217 said:


> I 100% agree about the drums.


How about jazz drumming?


----------



## Dynamo5561

PhazeCrive said:


> Got a somewhat respectable stack now consisting of the TC, gustard x26pro dac and burston GT amp and honestly I can't hear a difference compared to, let's say my phone.
> 
> The biggest change was the amp, and even that was really small. I ran a 3.5mm to dual RCA from my Asus monitor to my Burson GT and that seemed to change the way the bass sounded. More clean with a very slight boost in the deepest parts of the bass. Not a huge change, but that's one of the only things I noticed. The cleanliness of the bass.
> 
> ...


I totally agree on your observation. I also listen to Susvara and 1266 from mid-fi amps as the difference to summit-fi amps is not audible for me. Especially not if blind tested. At least it's good for your wallet, if you know that  But the 1266 itself sounds much better than all the other headphones


----------



## F208Frank

Palace - Asadi 

Some nice bass for all you TC cats!


----------



## sloomingbla (Apr 16, 2022)

PhazeCrive said:


> Yeah. I'll get used to it. Then A-B in a week or two. Realizing what you don't have is a real thing for sure. Because when I put on my old HD560s I'm like "damn this thing sucks in almost every conceivable sense. No amount of electronics will "add" to what it wasn't doing.


I mean, I will add that a lot of this stuff is mental as much as it is technical. Diminishing returns sure, but a lot of the time the perceived sound quality can be greatly reduced if I'm not in the mindset to actually enjoy the music I'm listening to.

There's a reason so much snake oil exists in this field, and it's because you can't really listen to music without feeling it. Being in the space to feel it comes and goes, sometimes without much cause. Sure, you can listen to the noises and figure out the difference in fidelity. But the noise has to become music for the magnitude of difference to become apparent.

Every pair of headphones, and every piece of equipment I've ever had either sounded "meh" or sounded great at some point.

Placebo, mental biases, mood and mindset are all playing a key role in music quality. I'm sure you probably know this already, but I figure I'd share my two cents on why you should give it some time. The best way to listen is not when you are thinking about how much money you've spent on it and how it should sound, haha


----------



## PhazeCrive

Yes absolutely, with my mind at ease knowing I have a pretty good system, I'm no longer searching or wondering "what does better sound like? How much will X improve if I add this in the system?" No more doubts or suspicions clouding over what should be a good session. Now that the system's here and I can listen easy knowing I have everything. That's where the enjoyment and appreciation came come in. I've seen a lot of people continually chase whatever new thing came out and never really sat back and listened to how good their system was already. Don't kid yourself, trust that it's already good.

I couldn't stack the GT on top. The bottom of it would become burning hot, so I increased airflow by propping it up with some foam I cut up from the Gustard packaging. It's ghetto, but the important part is that it keeps it cool, and costed nothing. I would need to buy longer XLRs and some sort of stand or rack, and that's on ice for awhile.


----------



## Frankie D

PhazeCrive said:


> Yes absolutely, with my mind at ease knowing I have a pretty good system, I'm no longer searching or wondering "what does better sound like? How much will X improve if I add this in the system?" No more doubts or suspicions clouding over what should be a good session. Now that the system's here and I can listen easy knowing I have everything. That's where the enjoyment and appreciation came come in. I've seen a lot of people continually chase whatever new thing came out and never really sat back and listened to how good their system was already. Don't kid yourself, trust that it's already good.
> 
> I couldn't stack the GT on top. The bottom of it would become burning hot, so I increased airflow by propping it up with some foam I cut up from the Gustard packaging. It's ghetto, but the important part is that it keeps it cool, and costed nothing. I would need to buy longer XLRs and some sort of stand or rack, and that's on ice for awhile.


You might want to try using Mapleshade Isoblocks (multi-layer rubber-cork laminate) for 36.00.  They should work well and make it look much better than the foam.


----------



## Somatic

https://abyss-headphones.com/collec.../products/new-ab-1266-cc-replacement-ear-pads

$395 for replacement pads? That's a huge markup! LOL ....


----------



## Hoegaardener70

nm


----------



## SteveM324

Frankie D said:


> You might want to try using Mapleshade Isoblocks (multi-layer rubber-cork laminate) for 36.00.  They should work well and make it look much better than the foam.


I agree that multi-layer rubber-cork-cork laminate can be effective and look much better than the foam he is using.  However, if you're stacking components and using the rubber-cork-rubber isolation blocks, use cut out felt, mylar or something that won't stain your components on top and bottom of the blocks.  I use a cork rubber devices under my Butcher Block Acoustics maple turntable plinth.  When I moved my turntable to rearrange my components and happened to look at the underside of my maple plinth, I saw black stains where the rubber made contact with the maple wood.  Since the stains are on the underside of my plinth, it's no big deal but I would be upset if the stains were on the top of my component. Just a word of caution about using Isoblocks, sorbathane or anything else that may leave stains.


----------



## Frankie D

SteveM324 said:


> I agree that multi-layer rubber-cork-cork laminate can be effective and look much better than the foam he is using.  However, if you're stacking components and using the rubber-cork-rubber isolation blocks, use cut out felt, mylar or something that won't stain your components on top and bottom of the blocks.  I use a cork rubber devices under my Butcher Block Acoustics maple turntable plinth.  When I moved my turntable to rearrange my components and happened to look at the underside of my maple plinth, I saw black stains where the rubber made contact with the maple wood.  Since the stains are on the underside of my plinth, it's no big deal but I would be upset if the stains were on the top of my component. Just a word of caution about using Isoblocks, sorbathane or anything else that may leave stains.


Good to know.  I would think on an aluminum housing or metal housing it should rub off easily.  Wood is absorptive.  I did not realize they did that. 

Myrtle wood blocks might also work, but not absorptive.  They will isolate and not leave a residue.  Something else inexpensive to try.


----------



## SteveM324

Frankie D said:


> Good to know.  I would think on an aluminum housing or metal housing it should rub off easily.  Wood is absorptive.  I did not realize they did that.
> 
> Myrtle wood blocks might also work, but not absorptive.  They will isolate and not leave a residue.  Something else inexpensive to try.


Unfortunately the stains from rubber or sorbathane are not easily removed from aluminum or steel cases.  I know from experience.  It's not a big problem if you're aware of it.  Just buy some felt pads from an arts and crafts store or Amazon and cut out the shape required.   You can use a small piece of double sticky tape to keep the felt from moving around.


----------



## FLTWS (Apr 17, 2022)

I've been using Herbie's   https://herbiesaudiolab.com/  products for years without issues.

The FAQ states "Our silicone-based products do not ooze or leave a residue. They they do not stiffen and crack over the years like rubber or squish out of shape like some footers. They'll be just as good as new for a lifetime and longer."

I've used and reused them over and over with no issues. And, do read their FAQ.


----------



## Frankie D

FLTWS said:


> I've been using Herbie's   https://herbiesaudiolab.com/  products for years without issues.
> 
> The FAQ states "Our silicone-based products do not ooze or leave a residue. They they do not stiffen and crack over the years like rubber or squish out of shape like some footers. They'll be just as good as new for a lifetime and longer."
> 
> I've used and reused them over and over with no issues. And, do read their FAQ.


Thanks for the link.  The prices look pretty good as well. Tks.


----------



## Somatic

Anyone know where to get a urethane o-ring kit? Trying to find a cheaper kit on Amazon but seem to be Nitrile etc. I don't want them breaking all the time.


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

Dms is officially at The Headphone Show.  Nothing new from Abyss on YouTube this week.  How does the future look?


----------



## ra990

Paul Noir Culte said:


> Dms is officially at The Headphone Show.  Nothing new from Abyss on YouTube this week.  How does the future look?


Not following what has been going on, but is DMS out of Abyss now or doing both? He added tons to Abyss' YT presence.


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

I read that there is no longer a wooden box included.  Could someone who recently bought a PHI TC and didn't get a wooden box post some photos or make an unboxing video.  Thanks in advance.

I don't know if DMS has left Abyss or is doing both, so I asked.


----------



## eee1111

Paul Noir Culte said:


> I read that there is no longer a wooden box included.  Could someone who recently bought a PHI TC and didn't get a wooden box post some photos or make an unboxing video.  Thanks in advance.
> 
> I don't know if DMS has left Abyss or is doing both, so I asked.


Yikes

If true I guess mine just went up in value


----------



## vonBaron

Yep, wooden box is no longer included, now you have leather briefcase instead.


----------



## F208Frank

Regarding the wooden box comments few posts above, yes there is no longer the wooden box with the green wooden lid. It also does not come with the leather case that a poster mentioned above unless you get the upper tier package.

Just wanted to clarify for a few, but sorry I do not have my box anymore as it is put safely in long term storage.


----------



## vonBaron

In my country there is no other tier than middle (with leather case) and complete (wit LC and SC cable).


----------



## dudeX

ra990 said:


> Not following what has been going on, but is DMS out of Abyss now or doing both? He added tons to Abyss' YT presence.


He still works at Abyss, he's just out sick. When he recovers, expect the videos to resume!


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

F208Frank said:


> Regarding the wooden box comments few posts above, yes there is no longer the wooden box with the green wooden lid. It also does not come with the leather case that a poster mentioned above unless you get the upper tier package.
> 
> Just wanted to clarify for a few, but sorry I do not have my box anymore as it is put safely in long term storage.


Then the PHI TC is now only delivered in a cardboard box?  Like Audeze uses in the LCD-X (XC) Creator Edition?


----------



## Paul Noir Culte (Apr 18, 2022)

Does Hifiman now have the higher-quality presentation? 😂


----------



## F208Frank

Paul Noir Culte said:


> Then the PHI TC is now only delivered in a cardboard box?  Like Audeze uses in the LCD-X (XC) Creator Edition?


Yes cardboard box. A decent one though. Tbh I did not mind. As mentioned I was just thrown off as this was my 2nd brand new pair and my 1st one came with the wooden. Its no biggie imo.


----------



## Somatic

MatW said:


> Rustle can be caused by your hair touching the driver. 'When putting them on' points in that direction. Solution: get a haircut.


I need a haircut!!! lol ...


----------



## eee1111

Paul Noir Culte said:


> Does Hifiman now have the higher-quality presentation? 😂


this is honestly hilarious that the company that sells 2,000 dollar cables cant ship it in a nice wooden box

or any box....like any box made of anything thats sturdy

just my opinion don't eat me


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

I found the cardboard box of my LCD-XC Creator Edition very loveless. With an ultra high-end product like the PHI TC, I expect a lot more than a cardboard box.


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

eee1111 said:


> this is honestly hilarious that the company that sells 2,000 dollar cables cant ship it in a nice wooden box
> 
> or any box....like any box made of anything thats sturdy


I was toying with the idea of buying the SC cable, I need 1.8 meters, it costs €2990 in Europe.


----------



## FLTWS

eee1111 said:


> this is honestly hilarious that the company that sells 2,000 dollar cables cant ship it in a nice wooden box
> 
> or any box....like any box made of anything thats sturdy
> 
> just my opinion don't eat me


My take: (and I have a PHI CC wood box). The wood case is a nice touch but other than re-sale at some point in time I can't imagine what else I'd do with it. The leather bag is something I would never use. Do away with both and go with a pelican case with cutout for the phones and at least 2 sets of cables (stock and SC).


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

A Pelican case would be the best solution anyway, but only a cardboard box is very disappointing.  Who starts selling the wooden box?  I'm selling mine for €1000 🤣


----------



## Olmanwood123

eee1111 said:


> this is honestly hilarious that the company that sells 2,000 dollar cables cant ship it in a nice wooden box
> 
> or any box....like any box made of anything thats sturdy
> 
> just my opinion don't eat me


At 7500$ cdn , something would be nice - although I was fortunate to get a wooden box and much lower price last year


----------



## Somatic

cangle said:


> Been playing with toe-in and I do like what I'm hearing. I definitely get a more in front sound whereas with a toe out I think the stage felt a bit wider but the singer could sometimes sound more behind or to the sides then in the front. Pads are still roughly at 3 and 9 and with the toe-in maxed I get a bit too much pressure on my temples but with it slightly less then max it's comfortable. Bass is about the same or maybe a bit less depending on the amount of toe-out I used. But, I still get a gap close to my jaw with it toed-in or out so bass is similar


Are you still rocking this configuration? I’m also 3 and 9 and will mess with toe in tomorrow


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

I am still interested in the SC cable and may buy it next month. Does the SC come in a loveless cardboard box or do you get a wooden box or some other premium presentation?


----------



## Roasty

Paul Noir Culte said:


> I am still interested in the SC cable and may buy it next month. Does the SC come in a loveless cardboard box or do you get a wooden box or some other premium presentation?



mine came in a nice wooden box. flatter than the one my abyss came in. and not two tone ie not the greenish cover.


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

Thank you for this information.  I would definitely be disappointed if Abyss didn't include the wooden box with the SC cable.


----------



## cangle

Somatic said:


> Are you still rocking this configuration? I’m also 3 and 9 and will mess with toe in tomorrow


Sort of. I don't toe out anymore as the sound is too behind me. I'm still at roughly 3 and 9 and alternate between no toe-in or out and a bit of toe-in. I still find that toe-in gives the most realistic stage but the pressure on my temples is uncomfortable so I do it temporarily. Still playing around with the fit though after owning the 1266 for a year or so.


----------



## Somatic (Apr 19, 2022)

Been messing around with the TC last 2 days. I think I found the right fit. If the frame is too wide bass tends to distort etc. I landed on the pads softly touching the side of head with slight toe-in. My pads are at 3 and 9. The recessed mids are apparent. They do sound fuller and more fullbodied than the Susvara's but I like how the Susvara's convey detail. I feel the TCs are more in your face. Susvara's at louder volumes hit hard and sound great still with Rock etc.

I just started the journey with both these cans so I will need time to figure out the best use cases for both.

Funny i noticed the form factor of the HW  hardware is a metaphor on how each can sounds. Susvara frame/body is much more delicate while the TC is robust/industrial. Portrayal of music seems to follow these conventions as well.

I wish the Susvara and the TC had an illegitimate child. That is my dream of an ultimate headphone.

Edit: Also, nothing compares to a dedicated sub  ...


----------



## Frankie D

Somatic said:


> Edit: Also, nothing compares to a dedicated sub


What do you mean?  In a 2-channel system?


----------



## Somatic

Yea, nice floor standing speaker and dedicated sub are amazing. But I have also added a sub when listening to headphones during the day when everyone is out. Best of both worlds.


----------



## Somatic (Apr 19, 2022)

I'm running the TCs off the Rear XLR on the TT2 as most people mentioned this is the way to go for added power etc. I really like transparency and increased clarity. After 2 days of listening only to the rear XLRs I tried the front SE for crap and giggles. I was surprised to find out that I enjoyed the sound much more.

Things became a lot clearer, image clarity, less congestion, bass was less distorted, even the midrange seemed a bit more sweet and forward than before. I feel these cans are very technical and I can see them scale with better sources.

Edit: I found the Susvara's sounded limp off the front SE of the TT2 but much better off the Rear XLR. For context I preferred the added transparency I got running the Susvara off the rear XLRs vs the ABH2 which I ended up returning.

Edit 2: The difference was so stark using the SE outputs that I was trying to added warmer filters with the rear XLRs but with the SEs it was not needed. So picked filter for increased clarity etc.


----------



## paradoxper (Apr 19, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Been messing around with the TC last 2 days. I think I found the right fit. If the frame is too wide bass tends to distort etc. I landed on the pads softly touching the side of head with slight toe-in. My pads are at 3 and 9. The recessed mids are apparent. They do sound fuller and more fullbodied than the Susvara's but I like how the Susvara's convey detail. I feel the TCs are more in your face. Susvara's at louder volumes hit hard and sound great still with Rock etc.
> 
> I just started the journey with both these cans so I will need time to figure out the best use cases for both.
> 
> ...


Introduce a tube stage and you will flesh out the mids.

I am curious 6 months down the road where you have landed with the fit.

I don't believe I have changed my fitment in quite some months after trialing every metered inch but the voice in my head tells me, but wait there's more.

Perhaps that's the affliction of the pursuit of perfected delusion.


----------



## Somatic

paradoxper said:


> Introduce a tube stage and you will flesh out the mids.
> 
> I am curious 6 months down the road where you have landed with the fit.
> 
> ...


Will let you know. I was still messing with slight toe-in and toe-out. Toe-out increases soundstage. Too much and its loses its visceral impact.


----------



## PierPP

paradoxper said:


> Introduce a tube stage and you will flesh out the mids.
> 
> I am curious 6 months down the road where you have landed with the fit.
> 
> ...



In my (short) experience with the 1266 the SC gave mids some love. The further introduction of the MAY DAC in my chain gave them even more  fleshing (I had the Venus2 before). Now, with MAY+CFA3+SC+1266, I am satisfied with the mids, undoubtedly comparable to the ZMF with tubes.

Yes, I'm happy ... till next step


----------



## paradoxper

Somatic said:


> Will let you know. I was still messing with slight toe-in and toe-out. Toe-out increases soundstage. Too much and its loses its visceral impact.


Definitely a fine line. I toe-out with the pads ported towards the front. This essential for a better comfort.


PierPP said:


> In my (short) experience with the 1266 the SC gave mids some love. The further introduction of the MAY DAC in my chain gave them even more  fleshing (I had the Venus2 before). Now, with MAY+CFA3+SC+1266, I am satisfied with the mids, undoubtedly comparable to the ZMF with tubes.
> 
> Yes, I'm happy ... till next step


I hear you. I only use Norne cables so I run the S4 but you can't sucker me away from 300B life with solid state tendencies.

I'm still happy  the CFA3 is providing you love.


----------



## ra990

Somatic said:


> I'm running the TCs off the Rear XLR on the TT2 as most people mentioned this is the way to go for added power etc. I really like transparency and increased clarity. After 2 days of listening only to the rear XLRs I tried the front SE for crap and giggles. I was surprised to find out that I enjoyed the sound much more.
> 
> Things became a lot clearer, image clarity, less congestion, bass was less distorted, even the midrange seemed a bit more sweet and forward than before. I feel these cans are very technical and I can see them scale with better sources.
> 
> ...


I didn't notice much of a sonic difference from the front or the rear outs with the Abyss, just increased headroom. I wonder if you're using a different cable with each and that might be contributing to the different sound signatures?


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> you can't sucker me away from 300B life with solid state tendencies.


So you’re using Cabernet 300B as opposed to Freya now?


----------



## Somatic

ra990 said:


> I didn't notice much of a sonic difference from the front or the rear outs with the Abyss, just increased headroom. I wonder if you're using a different cable with each and that might be contributing to the different sound signatures?


I'm using the same stock Susvara cable on both rear XLR and SE outputs. I definitely hear more transparency with the SE outputs. More clarity and less congestion in complex passages. Went from "meh" to a big smile on my face. Also I'm liking the Susvara stock silver/copper cable vs the stock Abyss cable. Abyss cable seems fuller but treble is more etched. Stock Susvara cable seems slightly leaner and more detailed. The cable difference might be in my head but I definitely feel strong about the front SE vs rear XLR differences in transparency.


----------



## Somatic

zenlisten said:


> I put a lot of energy into trying to compare the sound out of the TT2 directly with the sound while the XI AUDIO Formula S is in between, and in the end I didn’t find out much about the difference. Still, it’s all good news in the end.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm in agreement with you on the clarity bit.


----------



## Somatic

ra990 said:


> I didn't notice much of a sonic difference from the front or the rear outs with the Abyss, just increased headroom. I wonder if you're using a different cable with each and that might be contributing to the different sound signatures?


I'm using the same stock Susvara cable on both rear XLR and SE outputs. I definitely hear more transparency with the SE outputs. More clarity and less congestion in complex passages. Went from "meh" to a big smile on my face.


----------



## number1sixerfan

It looks like I'm going to get to demo the SC cable pretty soon here and I'm really looking forward to it. Tubes have helped to a degree with the mids, but I'd be really happy if the SC helps to fleshes it out just a bit more. Will report back as soon as I can.


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> So you’re using Cabernet 300B as opposed to Freya now?


Yup. Rolling WE300B with MELZ 1578. Overkill for headphones. LOL


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> Yup. Rolling WE300B with MELZ 1578. Overkill for headphones. LOL


No such thing as overkill 😁


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> No such thing as overkill 😁


Yes, yes. Overbliss.


----------



## leftside

paradoxper said:


> Yup. Rolling WE300B with MELZ 1578. Overkill for headphones. LOL


300B + Abyss is a good combo


----------



## Sajid Amit

PierPP said:


> In my (short) experience with the 1266 the SC gave mids some love. The further introduction of the MAY DAC in my chain gave them even more  fleshing (I had the Venus2 before). Now, with MAY+CFA3+SC+1266, I am satisfied with the mids, undoubtedly comparable to the ZMF with tubes.
> 
> Yes, I'm happy ... till next step


The Holo May + HQP are indeed awesome with the TC.


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

number1sixerfan said:


> It looks like I'm going to get to demo the SC cable pretty soon here and I'm really looking forward to it. Tubes have helped to a degree with the mids, but I'd be really happy if the SC helps to fleshes it out just a bit more. Will report back as soon as I can.


I'm particularly interested in this comparison because I'm thinking about getting the SC cable next month.  But €2990 for 1.8 meters is very heavy.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Paul Noir Culte said:


> I'm particularly interested in this comparison because I'm thinking about getting the SC cable next month.  But €2990 for 1.8 meters is very heavy.



Yea if I didn't get this chance, I more than likely wouldn't have bought it blindly. So I'll definitely be happy to share.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Apr 20, 2022)

Have any of you driven your TC with this?

http://ultrasonicstudios.org/odyssey/

Or the new Feliks amp?


----------



## vonBaron

My Lazuli Ultra is back on loan and I still prefer him over SC. Mainly because the midrange is closer than to the SC.


----------



## mitchb

I enjoy a Lazuli Nirvana cable with the TC’s.


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

The Lazuli cables are only offered within America.  With additional customs and taxes to Austria, the Lazuli Nirvana would also be significantly more expensive than the SC cable.


----------



## qboogie

Paul Noir Culte said:


> The Lazuli cables are only offered within America.  With additional customs and taxes to Austria, the Lazuli Nirvana would also be significantly more expensive than the SC cable.


Could you ship it to a friend in America, and they could ship it to Austria as a "gift"? It would save you money


----------



## PhazeCrive

Anyone leave their DAC or amp on? I like the sound of my system when the dac is left on and warm. Could also be burning in as it's a new unit.


----------



## Olmanwood123

PhazeCrive said:


> Anyone leave their DAC or amp on? I like the sound of my system when the dac is left on and warm. Could also be burning in as it's a new unit.


I do.


----------



## FLTWS

Olmanwood123 said:


> I do.


Ditto!


----------



## DJJEZ

PhazeCrive said:


> Anyone leave their DAC or amp on? I like the sound of my system when the dac is left on and warm. Could also be burning in as it's a new unit.


I leave everything on 24/7


----------



## Somatic

Anyone using the stock Susvara cables with the TC? I'm using it for convenience and length. I did some A/B with several copper, stock TC cable etc and I prefer it. Stock Abyss cable sounds more raw with added bass but the silver/copper hybrid stock Susvara cable sounds a little bit clearer. Using a solid adapter from affinityadapters/Ebay.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Don't wanna call this one placebo, but when my system was cold after work, it always sounded cold; brittle, thin, harsh, and the main offender: wimpy bass. Many, many hours of unfun listening every day. But when I left it on overnight I was getting this bass presence and heft, sense of organic warmth, and wider sound. Fun sound the instant I put it on. Guess I'll leave the system on lol.


----------



## Somatic

PhazeCrive said:


> Don't wanna call this one placebo, but when my system was cold after work, it always sounded cold; brittle, thin, harsh, and the main offender: wimpy bass. Many, many hours of unfun listening every day. But when I left it on overnight I was getting this bass presence and heft, sense of organic warmth, and wider sound. Fun sound the instant I put it on. Guess I'll leave the system on lol.


A lot of people leave the dac, amps etc on 100%, 24/7.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Somatic said:


> A lot of people leave the dac, amps etc on 100%, 24/7.


Seriously? I even switch both off when I am away from my desk for more than 15min.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Seriously? I even switch both off when I am away from my desk for more than 15min.


I used to do that...not anymore. The difference is real with the higher priced stuff.


----------



## Designer Tiger

Ruddy1 said:


> I'm sorry


I used to see these pics from the "green forum".


----------



## deuter

DJJEZ said:


> I leave everything on 24/7


I cannot do this as I have a balanced tube dac


----------



## DJJEZ

deuter said:


> I cannot do this as I have a balanced tube dac


Oh yeh I wouldn't leave tube amps on but everything else yes


----------



## paradoxper

It's undoubtedly the 300B filling with soul and body, but a balance control is super useful. Perhaps more than I care to admit.

Listening to Lana Del Ray specifically NFR! and her voice can spread and fill out in density and now I find myself entertaining changing fit.

It's not like I will be doing anything useful for the next hours.

Anyone else enjoy a balance control?


----------



## Somatic

Do you guys know what the default O-ring size is? I'd like to buy a few smaller and bigger O-ring sizes from someone that has extras. 

Please PM me.


----------



## paradoxper (Apr 21, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Do you guys know what the default O-ring size is? I'd like to buy a few smaller and bigger O-ring sizes from someone that has extras.
> 
> Please PM me.


213.
https://www.mcmaster.com/o-rings/dash-number~213/oil-resistant-buna-n-o-rings-8/
https://www.amazon.com/213-Buna-N-Ring-Durometer-Black/dp/B000FMUT86
https://www.callapg.com/o-rings-seals/o-rings/nitrile-70-durometer-o-ring--213-h70213


----------



## Polygonhell

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Seriously? I even switch both off when I am away from my desk for more than 15min.


I leave anything SS on 24/7, I turn tube devices on in the morning and off at night if I intend to use them that day.
I've seen claims of some DAC's taking a week to reach temperature equilibrium, and changing how they sound through all that.
Nothing headphone related I own takes more than an hour or two to settle down.
Generally leaving devices on is less stressful on the device than repeated power on/off cycles, this is especially true for tube gear.


----------



## Somatic

paradoxper said:


> 213.
> https://www.mcmaster.com/o-rings/dash-number~213/oil-resistant-buna-n-o-rings-8/
> https://www.amazon.com/213-Buna-N-Ring-Durometer-Black/dp/B000FMUT86
> https://www.callapg.com/o-rings-seals/o-rings/nitrile-70-durometer-o-ring--213-h70213


Thanks. I others mentioned the Nitrile O Rings seems to break quickly? If not, I can just buy this one.

https://www.amazon.com/Botasea-Asso...lja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1


----------



## jlbrach

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Seriously? I even switch both off when I am away from my desk for more than 15min.


why????


----------



## Somatic

I know folks have mentioned that the TC has enormous bass especially in the sub bass region but I used to own the Arya V2s. When powered by speaker amps with a hefty low bass shelf EQ I would get monstrous bass. Basically like mini subwoofers next to ones ear. I felt the Arya's where too bright and the low bass shelf balanced them out nicely. They EQ like to no other.

Issue is the timbre is not good. Very unnatural sounding. I owned them twice and sold them twice.


----------



## paradoxper

Somatic said:


> Thanks. I others mentioned the Nitrile O Rings seems to break quickly? If not, I can just buy this one.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Botasea-Assortment-Universal-Automotive-Plumbing/dp/B09LLSTFGZ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=236K1QUITNLA&keywords=213+Buna-N+O-Ring&qid=1650582035&s=industrial&sprefix=213+buna-n+o-ring,industrial,78&sr=1-1-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzRllIVEFMTU03TzQwJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzY5NDQ4S1M3STlESVlRWkhLJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA4MzIxMDIxVE5GMTk4N0M4UU5WJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1


This is likely a false anecdote. Nitrile is a standard. However, sure, try silicone to sedate neurosis.


----------



## Somatic

paradoxper said:


> This is likely a false anecdote. Nitrile is a standard. However, sure, try silicone to sedate neurosis.


I have opiates for that. Seriously though, good info to know. Was having issues finding a urethane kit that did cost too much.


----------



## Ruddy1

Designer Tiger said:


> I used to see these pics from the "green forum".


That's me, the merging hapi evaluation I wrote


----------



## Ruddy1

I will try Alcantara earmuff, which is rumored to make TC sound warm


----------



## Somatic

Ruddy1 said:


> I will try Alcantara earmuff, which is rumored to make TC sound warm


Going to use double sided tape? Is that a ZMF ear pad …


----------



## Ruddy1

No, it's the same as TC


----------



## F208Frank

Ruddy1 said:


> No, it's the same as TC


How and where did you get this? It isnt an official pad from abyss correct?


----------



## Ruddy1

F208Frank said:


> How and where did you get this? It isnt an official pad from abyss correct?


This is from a third party


----------



## Roasty

well, this was a pleasant surprise indeed..


----------



## Sajid Amit

Roasty said:


> well, this was a pleasant surprise indeed..


Expand?


----------



## Roasty

Sajid Amit said:


> Expand?



makes me wonder why I spent so much on my other gear


----------



## Sajid Amit

Sajid Amit said:


> Expand?


Ignore, since we are already communicating one-to-one.


Roasty said:


> makes me wonder why I spent so much on my other gear


Lol.


----------



## Frankie D

Roasty said:


> makes me wonder why I spent so much on my other gear


Tell us more please.


----------



## eee1111

Ruddy1 said:


> This is from a third party


What third party they look great


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 22, 2022)

Roasty said:


> well, this was a pleasant surprise indeed..


What made you randomly decide that combo considering the fact that you have much better gear already. Sometimes I think about buying a cheap combo as a back up for when the repairs take place so I am not "out of the game"

That... and also to be able to contrast/compare and appreciate the differences between higher end gear and mid/lower end gear.

Some Fun Songs on the Abyss:

Domino - Alok
Echo - Alok

Man, having a pair of great headphones is such a damn blessing, every single time I put on the Abyss, I know some magical **** is about to happen and I start smirking once those leather pads hit my ears. It took me selling my 1st pair and realizing the annoyance of speakers without a proper room to fully appreciate headphones.

Compact, simple, great sound, smiles, what more can one ask for? One of the most beautiful material items ever made, a pair of great headphones.


----------



## Roasty (Apr 22, 2022)

Frankie D said:


> Tell us more please.





F208Frank said:


> What made you randomly decide that combo considering the fact that you have much better gear already. Sometimes I think about buying a cheap combo as a back up for when the repairs take place so I am not "out of the game"
> 
> That... and also to be able to contrast/compare and appreciate the differences between higher end gear and mid/lower end gear.



I got the Schiit stack to place in my office. I figured I won't get much listening time there, perhaps less than a half hour a day cumulative in between work.

well, I'll be honest and say my post above was just a "for fun" post, and it can't match up to my full sized setups.

but that's the thing, because 1. i wasn't expecting it to, and 2. even though it doesn't match up, it still gets maybe 90 to 95percent of the way there. sure, it is missing that teensiest bit of pinpoint imaging, missing that extra tiny bit of soundstage and 3d sensation, perhaps just a little bit less airy and maybe just a tad less separation and layering. but for 400 bucks..??

and in case anyone is wondering, I'll straight up say it, yes the Magnius can drive the Abyss, and well. on high gain I'm just touching 12 on the knob. the kicker is, I don't think I'm missing out on much running the abyss from this stack lol (this was for the "it can drive the abyss, but can it drive it well?"  group).

If I were to sell this stack at a 25-50 percent loss/discount on the classifieds a few weeks down the road, at that price I don't think I would worry too much about it. I don't think I could say the same for the other items in my signature..

i was speaking with Sajid about it and I think this stack can do the job for the majority of headphone users out there. sometimes I think we're so caught up in chasing the newest, expensive pricey options or flavour of the month, we overlook some of the true bargains out there.

I have no qualms in writing the above given I have some decent gear to compare it to.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Roasty said:


> I got the Schiit stack to place in my office. I figured I won't get much listening time there, perhaps less than a half hour a day cumulative in between work.
> 
> well, I'll be honest and say my post above was just a "for fun" post, and it can't match up to my full sized setups.
> 
> ...


👍🏻


----------



## Sajid Amit

Roasty said:


> even though it doesn't match up, it still gets maybe 90 to 95percent of the way there.


Takes a lot of courage to write this. Kudos to you for that.


----------



## Somatic (Apr 23, 2022)

Trying out the ZMF Eikon Hybrid (suede/lambskin) Pads on the TC. Very plush and comfortable. Lose some very low sub bass. But gain a tighter bass representation and I think increased mids. Sounds pretty good. Probably going to stay with this setup for a bit.

I tried the Auteur Hybrid (suede/lamb, perforated) ... sub bass was affected too much. Everything sounded much softer. I think some type of solid pad is needed.

Edit: Actually Auteur Hybrid (suede/lamb, perforated) sounds really nice. Loses a bit of bass but upper mids are increased. Sounds very natural. Almost like TC with some Susvara like properties. Hmmmm .... either way ... i dont think I'm going back to stock pads LOL


----------



## louis9

Anybody pairing abyss 1266TC with Mcintosh MHA 200. Please share you experience


----------



## Slim1970

louis9 said:


> Anybody pairing abyss 1266TC with Mcintosh MHA 200. Please share you experience


I am and I like the presentation personally. The modest power rating of the MHA200 is continuous into every headphone and it powers the TC’s rather easily. The volume seems to logarithmic and ramps up very fast after 1 o’clock. Providing amp power into all my headphones. It fills up the TC‘s with classic McIntosh sound. The sound is full bodied and it plays well to the TC’s technicalities.


----------



## Somatic

My understanding is that the Empys pads used a magnet system similar to the 1266. In the Empys I believe it is a closed system and the magnets affect the sound? Wondering if the magnets affect the 1266 or not? Replaced the pads with ZMF Eikons and thinking of sewing in small magnets to do fast replaceable pads. Thoughts?


----------



## Somatic (Apr 23, 2022)

1266 Phi TC w/ ZMF Eikon Hybrid (suede/lamb)
Susvara w/ Dekoni Elite Hybrid

Loving the combo.


----------



## sahmen (Apr 24, 2022)

Sajid Amit said:


> Takes a lot of courage to write this. Kudos to you for that.


Did you say a lot of courage? Then what would you call what it takes to face a charging Russian tank? On some level I understand what you mean perfectly, but the word "courage" could almost imply that posting one's honest impressions on head-fi might come close to accomplishing some war-front heroics!

Okay I get it. It's all just words, in a world that is chock-full of first world problems, AKA head-fi.org


----------



## louis9

Slim1970 said:


> I am and I like the presentation personally. The modest power rating of the MHA200 is continuous into every headphone and it powers the TC’s rather easily. The volume seems to logarithmic and ramps up very fast after 1 o’clock. Providing amp power into all my headphones. It fills up the TC‘s with classic McIntosh sound. The sound is full bodied and it plays well to the TC’s technicalities.


i don't know....for me, i don't think is good pairing, i like it more with grado RS1X (for vocal and live music). 

Have you try to pair it with some other amps, like XiAudio?


----------



## louis9

Slim1970 said:


> I am and I like the presentation personally. The modest power rating of the MHA200 is continuous into every headphone and it powers the TC’s rather easily. The volume seems to logarithmic and ramps up very fast after 1 o’clock. Providing amp power into all my headphones. It fills up the TC‘s with classic McIntosh sound. The sound is full bodied and it plays well to the TC’s technicalities.


May i know what DAC do you use?! I use Mcintosh MCD 85.


----------



## Designer Tiger

Hi, anyone want to sale his 1266TC here, looking for a nice condition one, I want to join in the club.

Give me a chance!


----------



## Slim1970

louis9 said:


> i don't know....for me, i don't think is good pairing, i like it more with grado RS1X (for vocal and live music).
> 
> Have you try to pair it with some other amps, like XiAudio?


Yes, I use to own the full XIAudio stack. The TC's were of course amazing on it.


----------



## Slim1970

louis9 said:


> May i know what DAC do you use?! I use Mcintosh MCD 85.


I'm using a Chord Dave to feed my MHA200


----------



## Somatic

sahmen said:


> Did you say lot of courage? Then what would you call what it takes to face a charging Russian tank? On some level I understand what you mean perfectly, but the word "courage" could almost imply that posting one's honest impressions on head-fi might come close to accomplishing some war-front heroics!
> 
> Okay I get. It's all just words, in a world that is chock-full of first world problems, AKA head-fi.org


No need to bring Russia / Ukraine conflict into the forum LOL ...


Dynamo5561 said:


> Maybe I can give some insights too.
> 
> For comparison I have the AB1266 OG with the thin strap and the PHI TC with the new headband.
> 
> ...


looks amazing. Did you use ZMF pads? Did you 3D print the mounting system? If so, would you sell me a pair? Fell free to PM me. Thanks.


----------



## Somatic

Ciggavelli said:


> Nice!  I just ordered a pair now. I appreciate the suggestion


Can one put the pilot pad over the new headband for more cushion?


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

qboogie said:


> Could you ship it to a friend in America, and they could ship it to Austria as a "gift"? It would save you money


That would of course be a possibility, but I am very skeptical whether the SC cables are worth the money, the Lazuli Nirvana costs even more.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Apr 24, 2022)

So I've had the SC cable for a day now. I'm going to take at least a week to really form some thoughts, but the differences were pretty apparent right from the start. There's mainly an improvement in timbre. There's greater weight to the overall sound and everything is "thickened" to a degree. So that makes the mids more lush and helps with my issue with them. It doesn't seem to pull the mids forward at all, which is the main thing I'm aiming for, but I didn't think was really possible with a cable anyway. But the more weighty tone and lushness definitely helps. It is for sure a welcomed change overall. Not a night and day difference, but a very discernible difference--I could tell the minute I changed cables for the first time.

The one tradeoff, is that I could also immediately sense a bit of a reduced soundstage length wise. And a very, very slight reduction in overall separation. In other words, it's very so slightly less open/extended than the stock cable to my ears. Now, the open/holographic nature of the TC was already so extremely good and maybe even a bit exaggerated at the cost of the mids, that this isn't at all a dealbreaker. I just haven't spent enough time to really come to: 1) my conclusion on what I'd prefer overall between the two; and 2) asses performance based on cost. But very positive overall thus far.

More to come with more time, but this was overall a pleasant first experience. I haven't experimented with cables in a LONG time. I spent a ton on ICs long ago and only found very subtle differences, so I just stopped and only focused on having decent cables w/o much comparison. I do have headphones with aftermarket cables, but mainly only because I've bought used.. I do remember headphone cables back then, (mainly swapped on HD650 and HD800), making more of a difference than ICs and that's still the case for me today. Again, not a huge difference but definitely a noticeable difference that does improve the mids and weight of sound.


----------



## F208Frank

number1sixerfan said:


> So I've had the SC cable for a day now. I'm going to take at least a week to really form some thoughts, but the differences were pretty apparent right from the start. There's mainly an improvement in timbre. There's greater weight to the overall sound and everything is "thickened" to a degree. So that makes the mids more lush and helps with my issue with them. It doesn't seem to pull the mids forward at all, which is the main thing I'm aiming for, but I didn't think was really possible with a cable anyway. But the more weighty tone and lushness definitely helps. It is for sure a welcomed change overall. Not a night and day difference, but a very discernible difference--I could tell the minute I changed cables for the first time.
> 
> The one tradeoff, is that I could also immediately sense a bit of a reduced soundstage length wise. And a very, very slight reduction in overall separation. In other words, it's very so slightly less open/extended than the stock cable to my ears. Now, the open/holographic nature of the TC was already so extremely good and maybe even a bit exaggerated at the cost of the mids, that this isn't at all a dealbreaker. I just haven't spent enough time to really come to: 1) my conclusion on what I'd prefer overall between the two; and 2) asses performance based on cost. But very positive overall thus far.
> 
> More to come with more time, but this was overall a pleasant first experience. I haven't experimented with cables in a LONG time. I spent a ton on ICs long ago and only found very subtle differences, so I just stopped and only focused on having decent cables w/o much comparison. I do have headphones with aftermarket cables, but mainly only because I've bought used.. I do remember headphone cables back then, (mainly swapped on HD650 and HD800), making more of a difference than ICs and that's still the case for me today. Again, not a huge difference but definitely a noticeable difference that does improve the mids and weight of sound.


Thank you for sharing, I myself also always felt in terms of cabling that the headphone or IEM cables always mattered the most compared to other cables such as power, interconnects, ethernet, etc. Usually the tail end of the chain does seem to be the most noticable with the beginning of the tail more so building a "good foundation" when it comes to switching out items.


----------



## vonBaron

number1sixerfan said:


> So I've had the SC cable for a day now. I'm going to take at least a week to really form some thoughts, but the differences were pretty apparent right from the start. There's mainly an improvement in timbre. There's greater weight to the overall sound and everything is "thickened" to a degree. So that makes the mids more lush and helps with my issue with them. It doesn't seem to pull the mids forward at all, which is the main thing I'm aiming for, but I didn't think was really possible with a cable anyway. But the more weighty tone and lushness definitely helps. It is for sure a welcomed change overall. Not a night and day difference, but a very discernible difference--I could tell the minute I changed cables for the first time.
> 
> The one tradeoff, is that I could also immediately sense a bit of a reduced soundstage length wise. And a very, very slight reduction in overall separation. In other words, it's very so slightly less open/extended than the stock cable to my ears. Now, the open/holographic nature of the TC was already so extremely good and maybe even a bit exaggerated at the cost of the mids, that this isn't at all a dealbreaker. I just haven't spent enough time to really come to: 1) my conclusion on what I'd prefer overall between the two; and 2) asses performance based on cost. But very positive overall thus far.
> 
> More to come with more time, but this was overall a pleasant first experience. I haven't experimented with cables in a LONG time. I spent a ton on ICs long ago and only found very subtle differences, so I just stopped and only focused on having decent cables w/o much comparison. I do have headphones with aftermarket cables, but mainly only because I've bought used.. I do remember headphone cables back then, (mainly swapped on HD650 and HD800), making more of a difference than ICs and that's still the case for me today. Again, not a huge difference but definitely a noticeable difference that does improve the mids and weight of sound.


Try Lazuli cable, its don't soft sound like SC and mids are more forward. My setup (Morpheus+Niimbus) is soft enough, i don't want to be even softer


----------



## Ciggavelli

Somatic said:


> Can one put the pilot pad over the new headband for more cushion?


no, the new headband is too big


----------



## mitchb

I second the Lazuli cable. I use the Nirvana from TC to my Niimbus and I have a modded Directstream dac before the Niimbus. I am getting nice sound.


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

number1sixerfan said:


> The one tradeoff, is that I could also immediately sense a bit of a reduced soundstage length wise. And a very, very slight reduction in overall separation. In other words, it's very so slightly less open/extended than the stock cable to my ears. Now, the open/holographic nature of the TC was already so extremely good and maybe even a bit exaggerated at the cost of the mids, that this isn't at all a dealbreaker.


Interestingly, Abyss claims that the SC cable has a larger soundstage and room boundaries open up way outside your head.


----------



## Sajid Amit

number1sixerfan said:


> So I've had the SC cable for a day now. I'm going to take at least a week to really form some thoughts, but the differences were pretty apparent right from the start. There's mainly an improvement in timbre. There's greater weight to the overall sound and everything is "thickened" to a degree. So that makes the mids more lush and helps with my issue with them. It doesn't seem to pull the mids forward at all, which is the main thing I'm aiming for, but I didn't think was really possible with a cable anyway. But the more weighty tone and lushness definitely helps. It is for sure a welcomed change overall. Not a night and day difference, but a very discernible difference--I could tell the minute I changed cables for the first time.
> 
> The one tradeoff, is that I could also immediately sense a bit of a reduced soundstage length wise. And a very, very slight reduction in overall separation. In other words, it's very so slightly less open/extended than the stock cable to my ears. Now, the open/holographic nature of the TC was already so extremely good and maybe even a bit exaggerated at the cost of the mids, that this isn't at all a dealbreaker. I just haven't spent enough time to really come to: 1) my conclusion on what I'd prefer overall between the two; and 2) asses performance based on cost. But very positive overall thus far.
> 
> More to come with more time, but this was overall a pleasant first experience. I haven't experimented with cables in a LONG time. I spent a ton on ICs long ago and only found very subtle differences, so I just stopped and only focused on having decent cables w/o much comparison. I do have headphones with aftermarket cables, but mainly only because I've bought used.. I do remember headphone cables back then, (mainly swapped on HD650 and HD800), making more of a difference than ICs and that's still the case for me today. Again, not a huge difference but definitely a noticeable difference that does improve the mids and weight of sound.


Nailed it. 

Look forward to the follow-up.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

Our Superconductor (SC) HP cable requires at least 72 hours of play time to open up. If you can, let it play 24/7 at moderate volume and listen for the changes from day to day.


----------



## PhazeCrive (Apr 25, 2022)

Pardon me, but why does everyone say the TC has a recession in the midrange? I don't hear it. I want to caveat that by saying I also don't hear a "bottomless, earth-shattering" bass output everyone praises it for. Yes, it can hit a little bit physically if the track calls for it, but for the most part it just sounds natural. I'm running it with the Gustard X26 Pro and Soloist 3X GT.

Part of me not hearing the crazy bass everyone talks about is probably also why I don't hear the midrange recession. I know what a suck out in the midrange sounds like. I've owned all the popular noise cancelling headphones, and the TC, at least in my system, is not sucked out.


----------



## Somatic

PhazeCrive said:


> Pardon me, but why does everyone say the TC has a recession in the midrange? I don't hear it. I want to caveat that by saying I also don't hear a "bottomless, earth-shattering" bass output everyone praises it for. Yes, it can hit a little bit physically if the track calls for it, but for the most part it just sounds natural. I'm running it with the Gustard X26 Pro and Soloist 3X GT.
> 
> Part of me not hearing the crazy bass everyone talks about is probably also why I don't hear the midrange recession. I know what a suck out in the midrange sounds like. I've owned all the popular noise cancelling headphones, and the TC, at least in my system, is not sucked out.


Regarding the bass, I believe it is how you have it setup. You want them lightly touching side of face with some toe-in or toe-out. If you have too much air gap it will lose presence. If you find the sweet spot it will have a lot of rumble but I think the bass is not as tight. You can keep tweaking until you find the right combination. Still it can't compare to a dedicated sub.


----------



## PhazeCrive (Apr 25, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Regarding the bass, I believe it is how you have it setup. You want them lightly touching side of face with some toe-in or toe-out. If you have too much air gap it will lose presence. If you find the sweet spot it will have a lot of rumble but I think the bass is not as tight. You can keep tweaking until you find the right combination. Still it can't compare to a dedicated sub.


Yeah, I settled on a fitment that gave me the most and deepest bass. I was just wondering if there was more, and it may be the case that there is not. It will begin to distort if I mess with it and try to go for "more." The real problem is like you said though: me comparing it to the subwoofer. That set the bar high and I've been holding the TC to that standard unfairly. The roll-off is just bound to happen due to the design somewhat encouraging a break in the seal. Less seal means more bass but less sub bass extension. It will sound woofer-like when there's a gap, but then you lose all sub bass. I wanted to get that really nice resonant sound to the bass, but it comes at the cost of extension. That bothered me once I figured it out but I am in no way at all unsatisfied with the TC.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Paul Noir Culte said:


> Interestingly, Abyss claims that the SC cable has a larger soundstage and room boundaries open up way outside your head.



It still has some of that same quality the TC is known for, but yes to my ears the soundstage is condensed just a bit compared to stock. But it does do a nice job of making the midrange more prominent. 

Also, just so everyone knows, this isn't a new SC cable, it's on loan from a generous head-fier. So burn in shouldn't be an issue. 



PhazeCrive said:


> Pardon me, but why does everyone say the TC has a recession in the midrange? I don't hear it. I want to caveat that by saying I also don't hear a "bottomless, earth-shattering" bass output everyone praises it for. Yes, it can hit a little bit physically if the track calls for it, but for the most part it just sounds natural. I'm running it with the Gustard X26 Pro and Soloist 3X GT.
> 
> Part of me not hearing the crazy bass everyone talks about is probably also why I don't hear the midrange recession. I know what a suck out in the midrange sounds like. I've owned all the popular noise cancelling headphones, and the TC, at least in my system, is not sucked out.



There's a slight recession with vocals, instruments and parts of the sound where the music sounds like it needs to be pulled forward to a small degree. This is more apparent in comparison to other headphones, such as the Susvara, which has a more neutral positioning and slightly better timbre imo. This doesn't bother everyone and if it doesn't bother you at all, I simply wouldn't worry about it.  

As for the bass, if you don't hear the earth-shattering impact in comparison to other headphones, I would say yes something might be off with the fit. TC doesn't have an extreme amount of sub-bass, but the visceral bass impact is probably the best I've heard. Definitely stands out pretty clearly.


----------



## Somatic

normie610 said:


> I also bought the SR1a filters. While they sound great, I still prefer my EQ settings 😊


Willing to share your EQ settings?


----------



## simorag (Apr 25, 2022)

Ideal musical territory for the AB-1266 ... when spatial reconstruction, plankton-level detailed content meet bottomless frequency extension these headphones have no equal IME


----------



## Somatic

Anyone tried adding a some EQ to the lower and upper mids? Seems a little less shouty now. Wonder if anyone messed with this.

Also, I get it ... purists going to say ... its your chain etc ... got it ... LOL ...


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

Abyss Headphones said:


> Our Superconductor (SC) HP cable requires at least 72 hours of play time to open up. If you can, let it play 24/7 at moderate volume and listen for the changes from day to day.


Is the SC cable still delivered with a wooden box or is there a saving now?


----------



## normie610

Somatic said:


> Willing to share your EQ settings?


You mean the SR1a EQ settings? With the TC I apply no EQ at all.


----------



## F208Frank

Paul Noir Culte said:


> Is the SC cable still delivered with a wooden box or is there a saving now?


Not sure but mine should be on the way to me soon, as it was ordered last week or so. Hope it comes soon and will let you know.

The box does not really bug me tbh.


----------



## Paul Noir Culte

Thank you.


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 27, 2022)

Paul Noir Culte said:


> Is the SC cable still delivered with a wooden box or is there a saving now?


For all you box nuts, the SC cable still comes with the wooden box. I kept my word to update you Paul.

The SC cable is a nice addition to the inventory for sure, I had it before back when I had my 1st pair of TC1266 which was wrongfully sold due to impulse.

My first time owning the SC cable back then, I did not really spend too much time comparing to stock as I just knew that the stock cable sometimes gave me some minor fatigue with some certain songs. I know many people who love the stock cable who aren't having those fatigue issues and I completely understand why. Stock is a damn good cable.

I also tried to avoid using the SC cable this time around when building the rig by choosing components that I felt would potentially side step the vocals for sounding recessed/thin. I still was not fully satisfied with the vocals despite doing so, hence the purchase of the SC.

I stuck with the stock cable for a much longer time this time around before buying the SC, and I can't really say I fully prefer the SC cable over the stock yet as both cables have their merits. To be fair my SC cable has not been broken in yet. The stock cable is just so detailed/transparent/neutral but sometimes once in a while some certain tracks do give me a tinge of fatigue when listening for 2 hours plus.

The largest main trade offs for me personally are that the vocals sound better on the SC but with less micro details overall, and the stock cable having more micro details but with the vocals sounding a ever so slightly thin/recessed. It looks like the occasional fatigue from the stock for me would edge me to choose the SC cable over the long run, but time will tell. Instruments also have more weight to them with the SC, which forced out a smirk from myself.

It is really cool that the stock cable can hold its own, I think Abyss should be really proud of that, as most TOTL headphones by default "need" an aftermarket cable.

Will update in the future regarding the SC after broken in, time recommended is about 72 hours according to Abyss direct.

One last thing, I always thought cable ergonomics are whatever and no big deal, but when you go from the stock ergonomics to the SC ergonomics, it is truly a beautiful thing.

Just curious how many of you prefer the stock cable? I find myself liking the stock for certain songs and the SC for others.


----------



## jlbrach

F208Frank said:


> For all you box nuts, the SC cable still comes with the wooden box. I kept my word to update you Paul.
> 
> The SC cable is a nice addition to the inventory for sure, I had it before back when I had my 1st pair of TC1266 which was wrongfully sold due to impulse.
> 
> ...


I agree, I think the stock cable is outstanding....far better than most stock but I attribute that to the abyss team being cable people....the SC is better but dramatically I think you described it well


----------



## number1sixerfan (Apr 27, 2022)

I was actually just coming here to provide a brief update on the SC cable. Agree with much of the above post and also, can confirm all of my initial impressions as still my perspective today. I can now say I prefer the SC cable over stock, mainly due to the density and prominence it gives to the midrange and vocals. This can somewhat feel like it does smooth over some micro detail, but that's just a natural tradeoff for having a weightier sound and tone vs. thinner and a bit brighter, which the original TC is in comparison.

The original cable does still sound wider and more open, but not by much with the SC cable.  Also, I didn't have major issues with brightness, but I could sense it at times and also overall it felt a bit cold at times. So the improvements to the mids and overall tonality is why I prefer it over stock.

The last question for me to answer _for myself_ was whether or not it's worth the price. This is obviously subjective and so I can only speak for myself. $2k is a lot to ask for a headphone cable and this level of difference sound wise. The differences are certainly discernible, but they aren't major in nature and it doesn't transform the TC, it more so offers a slightly different tuning. I'm not sure I'd purchase it, and I may try a few of the other cables mentioned that are close to half the price. This doesn't at all take away from how much I prefer it and how much I like what it does to the sound. Summit-fi is about spending maximizing performance, and often that comes at a premium cost that users have to just decide is worth it to them.

Thanks again @all2ofme for the generous offer to loan it out, and I will likely do a short comparison in my thread with a group of songs to share the differences a bit further in the next week.


----------



## paradoxper

F208Frank said:


> For all you box nuts, the SC cable still comes with the wooden box. I kept my word to update you Paul.
> 
> The SC cable is a nice addition to the inventory for sure, I had it before back when I had my 1st pair of TC1266 which was wrongfully sold due to impulse.
> 
> ...


Imagine how underwhelming the sounds would be if it weren't shipped in that magical wooden box.


----------



## jlbrach

yes, the box is key


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 27, 2022)

jlbrach said:


> I agree, I think the stock cable is outstanding....far better than most stock but I attribute that to the abyss team being cable people....the SC is better but dramatically I think you described it well


jblrach by any small chance did I sell you my 1st SC cable? I remember I sold you some stuff.

It is cool to be able to have both cables on hand to be swapped in and out dependent on mood or to give your headphones a refresher/break of some sort while going back to your "main" choice most of the time.


----------



## jlbrach

nope, I bought the SC retail from my dealer


----------



## paradoxper

Midnight express choo choo!


----------



## Olmanwood123

paradoxper said:


> Imagine how underwhelming the sounds would be if it weren't shipped in that magical wooden box.


I think the wood box really opens up the sound stage.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> Midnight express choo choo!


You’re really lovin it huh? 😁


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> You’re really lovin it huh? 😁


Dude...so much. I've now moved to 45 rolling. Trying to find a Perryman mesh > 300B stratosphere. Couldn't be having more fun.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> Dude...so much. I've now moved to 45 rolling. Trying to find a Perryman mesh > 300B stratosphere. Couldn't be having more fun.


Dang, my Neo can’t use 45 😅 can you still find NOS Perryman mesh?


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Dang, my Neo can’t use 45 😅 can you still find NOS Perryman mesh?


As with all NOS the prices are silly. Everything has its price.

the 45 is for the Valkyria  -- need a little more linear performance. Can someone start a 300B lending program though. Anybody.


----------



## deuter

paradoxper said:


> As with all NOS the prices are silly. Everything has its price.
> 
> the 45 is for the Valkyria  -- need a little more linear performance. Can someone start a 300B lending program though. Anybody.


Check in stereo forums, something like audio circle or audio shark.
The members there are very kind and considerate of everyone especially new.


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 30, 2022)

Just wanted to provide an update when using the new SC cable. I notice majority of the users with the SC cable prefer it over the stock and never go back to the stock.

I feel like I enjoy them both almost equally. I find myself bopping my head to the stock cable due to the huge slam it provides along with the clarity and precision of micro details, but I also find myself bopping my head to the SC cable due to the lusher/weightier mids. I feel like I almost (key word almost) have two different headphones, or at the very least have 2 flavors to choose from on a daily basis. Vanilla or vanilla with tid bits of small cookie crumbs, this is coming from someone who HATES changing stuff out and usually preferring things to be set in stone once dialed in to preferences.

Back when I had the SC cable and the stock cable, I never went back to the stock and just told myself do not bother. Props to Abyss once again for including a strong stock cable with the headphones. That's how it should be done.

I challenge some of you to revert back to the stock cable and be potentially pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Ciggavelli

F208Frank said:


> Just wanted to provide an update when using the new SC cable. I notice majority of the users with the SC cable prefer it over the stock and never go back to the stock. I think I may just be a weirdo and enjoy them both almost equally. I find myself bopping my head to the stock cable due to the huge slam it provides along with the clarity and precision of micro details, and I also find myself bopping my head to the SC cable due to the lusher/weightier mids.
> 
> I guess at the end of the day, I am just an Abyss fan boy. Back when I had the SC cable and the stock cable, I never went back to the stock and just told myself do not bother. Some things do change, props to Abyss once again for including a strong stock cable with the headphones.


If the stock had substantially better ergonomics, I’d use it more. The stock cable ergonomics are an abomination, and Abyss should be embarrassed by it. I’ve said it before, but I suspect they make the stock cable that way so that one is tempted to buy the SC. I can’t think of any logical reason why there isn’t a better sleeve on the stock cable.


----------



## F208Frank

Ciggavelli said:


> If the stock had substantially better ergonomics, I’d use it more. The stock cable ergonomics are an abomination, and Abyss should be embarrassed by it. I’ve said it before, but I suspect they make the stock cable that way so that one is tempted to buy the SC. I can’t think of any logical reason why there isn’t a better sleeve on the stock cable.


Sure, I do agree the stock ergonomics are bad. 

From a pure sound perspective, do you prefer the SC or stock?

I feel like I would change them back and forth bi weekly to keep things fresh.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Material cost, labor cost. Most of the cost of the TC is in the labor. I think they said in a video it takes over two weeks to make  a fresh one. But for the cost of the SC, you can get a PS Audio powerplant and see a more meaningful improvement to your chain.


----------



## Ciggavelli

F208Frank said:


> Sure, I do agree the stock ergonomics are bad.
> 
> From a pure sound perspective, do you prefer the SC or stock?
> 
> I feel like I would change them back and forth bi weekly to keep things fresh.


SC. Though others have claimed liking rap better with the stock, which is a genre I listen to a lot.

I’ve tuned my chain around the TCs, and that includes using the SC cable.


----------



## Frankie D

Ciggavelli said:


> SC. Though others have claimed liking rap better with the stock, which is a genre I listen to a lot.
> 
> I’ve tuned my chain around the TCs, and that includes using the SC cable.


I see you have both the Wa33 Elite and the 3 ES Elite ( for electrostatics).  That is awesome! I have a question.   Do you use one DAC to drive the WA33 and then connect the preamp out of the WA33 to drive the 3ES?  I am still working my way toward the WA33, but was curious how to also connect a 3ES even further down the road.  Tks.


----------



## F208Frank (May 1, 2022)

Ciggavelli said:


> SC. Though others have claimed liking rap better with the stock, which is a genre I listen to a lot.
> 
> I’ve tuned my chain around the TCs, and that includes using the SC cable.


Nice, I used to listen to primarily rap, mainly more edm/pop lately for some reason. Glass animals has been a recent fave, been listening to them a lot.

J Cole, Kendrick, Biggie, Jay Z, Nas are my top 5 fave rappers off top of my head. I also followed a lot of battle rap back in the day.

Check out the Arsonal vs Brizz Rawsteen battle if you are into that. Crazy stuff, one of my favorite battles of all time.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Frankie D said:


> I see you have both the Wa33 Elite and the 3 ES Elite ( for electrostatics).  That is awesome! I have a question.   Do you use one DAC to drive the WA33 and then connect the preamp out of the WA33 to drive the 3ES?  I am still working my way toward the WA33, but was curious how to also connect a 3ES even further down the road.  Tks.


I go DAVE to WA33 and then switch the cables around and go DAVE to 3ES.  I don't use the WA33 as as preamp for the 3ES, because I feel it is overkill.  I do use the WA33 and the 3ES as a preamp for my HSA-1b and SR1as (I prefer the 3ES and the 300B tubes though)


----------



## Ruddy1

I conducted an unprecedented test and my conclusion is 1266og > 1266tc > he90


----------



## Ruddy1

I also tested omega and JPS cables, and they are all the same!


----------



## Frankie D

Ciggavelli said:


> I go DAVE to WA33 and then switch the cables around and go DAVE to 3ES.  I don't use the WA33 as as preamp for the 3ES, because I feel it is overkill.  I do use the WA33 and the 3ES as a preamp for my HSA-1b and SR1as (I prefer the 3ES and the 300B tubes though)


Thanks you for the info. I was curious if it could be done without switching around cables which is why I asked.  Thank you.


----------



## deuter

Ruddy1 said:


> I conducted an unprecedented test and my conclusion is 1266og > 1266tc > he90


That’s the reason I have been hesitant to upgrade to the TC from the OG, scared to misc the huge bass and musicality.
An excellent headphone with the Formula S.


----------



## vonBaron

TC are more musicality than OG.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Frankie D said:


> Thanks you for the info. I was curious if it could be done without switching around cables which is why I asked.  Thank you.


It can be done without switching cables on the Chord DAVE. You put the wa33 with the XLR interconnects and the 3ES with the rca interconnects (or vis versa). I’ve been meaning to do that actually…just need to buy the rca cables.


----------



## sahmen (May 1, 2022)

Ruddy1 said:


> I conducted an unprecedented test and my conclusion is 1266og > 1266tc > he90


Interesting, but it would be even more interesting if you identify components of the chain in which the experimentations and rankings took place. Reason?  The way any headphone sounds depends on its synergy with the components of the chain in which it is performing. In that sense, ranking three headphones as if each was performing separately, and in isolation without a chain could be misleading. There is also the legitimate question of your subjective preferences, both in choices of gear and  listening repertoires, but we won't go there yet. Just  a thought.


----------



## Articnoise

sahmen said:


> Interesting, but it would be even more interesting if you identify components of the chain in which the experimentations and rankings took place. Reason?  The way any headphone sounds depends on its synergy with the components of the chain in which it is performing. In that sense, ranking three headphones as if each was performing separately, and in isolation without a chain could be misleading. There is also the legitimate question of your subjective preferences, both in choices of gear and  listening repertoires, but we won't go there yet. Just  a thought.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...essions-thread.666765/page-1331#post-16914597 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...essions-thread.666765/page-1331#post-16914838 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...essions-thread.666765/page-1332#post-16914862


----------



## sahmen (May 1, 2022)

Articnoise said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...essions-thread.666765/page-1331#post-16914597
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...essions-thread.666765/page-1331#post-16914838
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...essions-thread.666765/page-1332#post-16914862


Those are surely some impressive looking sets of audio equipment, but my question is really about comparative synergies between the listed headphones and the need to identify the specific chains in the experiments which the OP was reporting on. Sorry if that was not clear.


----------



## dubharmonic

Last weekend at AXPONA I was able to demo several 1266 models, and I was surprised by how much variation there was in the clamping force, even after making personal adjustments. My personal 1266 TC has a far stronger clamp than anything I demoed. Is there a trick to loosen them up?


----------



## mitchb

The 1266 frames can be widened just by gently stretching them apart. You can bend the frames to widen or narrow. Just be careful. I recommend viewing the Abyss video’s on fit of the headphones. There should be links to the videos on the Abyss website.


----------



## dubharmonic

Thanks @mitchb I've watched this one: 

The head pad tension is so strong that it pulls the ear pads in quite a bit.


----------



## sahmen (May 1, 2022)

dubharmonic said:


> Last weekend at AXPONA I was able to demo several 1266 models, and I was surprised by how much variation there was in the clamping force, even after making personal adjustments. My personal 1266 TC has a far stronger clamp than anything I demoed. Is there a trick to loosen them up?


These O-rings could be your friends:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GSKKHQM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1






I just swapped the original O-rings on my 1266 with a pair of the ones in this box and then bam! No more unbearable clamp force.


----------



## sahmen (May 1, 2022)

Deleted


----------



## dubharmonic

sahmen said:


> These O-rings could be your friends:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GSKKHQM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
> 
> ...



Brilliant! Thanks for the idea!


----------



## karlheinz147

sahmen said:


> These O-rings could be your friends:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GSKKHQM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
> 
> ...


What size did you select?


----------



## Sajid Amit

Friends

How is the Nimbus with the TC?


----------



## mitchb

Sajid Amit said:


> Friends
> 
> How is the Nimbus with the TC?


The Niimbus is beautiful with the TC’s.


----------



## vonBaron

Sajid Amit said:


> Friends
> 
> How is the Nimbus with the TC?


Best, i find only WA33 be better.


----------



## sahmen

karlheinz147 said:


> What size did you select?


I do not remember exactly. I just made sure the replacement pair was a size or two larger than the original pair by eyeballing them.  Luckily the first pair I selected worked like a charm.  I really think it is easy to experiment with sizes when you have the whole set of O-rings before you.  I hope that helps,


----------



## mitchb

I purchased the set of O-rings before I even received the headphones just to be safe. According to one of the members on a recent previous post the size of the O-rings is 213. If you buy the kit you get all kinds of sizes 10 O-rings per size up to size 226 which would probably be too big so you should be able to find the best size with experimentation.


----------



## acclimatise

I've read many old replies these days. I find 600i is a good choice, but I'm currently using luxman l509x. I don't know if anyone has compared these two amplifiers for 1266tc, I know a little about the simaudio style. I've used 430ha and 650d CD


----------



## Ruddy1

I don't think questyle has any equipment to handle TC


----------



## simorag

acclimatise said:


> I've read many old replies these days. I find 600i is a good choice, but I'm currently using luxman l509x. I don't know if anyone has compared these two amplifiers for 1266tc, I know a little about the simaudio style. I've used 430ha and 650d CD



I had the Simaudio 600i, and listened to the Luxman L-590AXII at length. I did not try the 509, although I would not expect a dramatic change with the AB-1266, also because at the impedance / power requirement of the Abyss the 509 would work in class A all the time as well.

The Simaudio was the epitome of transparency and linearity, with an elegant yet very big sound (the classic 'iron fist in a velvet glove'). 

The L-590AXII has been one of my favorite amps with the Abyss and actually if one finds a unit on the used market close to 5kEuro this would be my most recommended amp in that price bracket. What I liked about the Luxman was the refined, supple sound with a touch of lower midrange / upper bass emphasis, and the possibility to tune the sound further with all the tone controls.
Not to mention the aesthetics of the thing that is timeless.


----------



## vonBaron

Ruddy1 said:


> I don't think questyle has any equipment to handle TC


I think CMA15 can.


----------



## acclimatise

simorag said:


> I had the Simaudio 600i, and listened to the Luxman L-590AXII at length. I did not try the 509, although I would not expect a dramatic change with the AB-1266, also because at the impedance / power requirement of the Abyss the 509 would work in class A all the time as well.
> 
> The Simaudio was the epitome of transparency and linearity, with an elegant yet very big sound (the classic 'iron fist in a velvet glove').
> 
> ...


----------



## acclimatise

Thank you very much for your reply. When I came to this forum, I was very surprised that few users used l509x. Your reply strengthened my determination to treat1266tc as my next plan


----------



## Bonddam

Yes I did the o ring thing today and loose fit. I placed a piece of padding under the Abyss pad and issue fixed. No more squeeze at the top of the ear pads making gap more even and loose so bass does not cancel out on one side. I just ran over and bought a bunch from ACE Hardware.


----------



## F208Frank

Gadget67 said:


> Glad to see you are getting the Superconductor; I am enjoying mine (purchased from @qboogie).  I have to admit that I question the whole concept of breaking in a headphone cable.  I believe most of the difference can be attributed to my brain adjusting to the sound but others believe there is some science involved here.  Mine is now permanently attached to the 1266 but I am tempted to revert to the stock cable now that my brain has “adjusted” to the Superconductor to see if there is a difference I can perceive.


After you have adjusted, did you end up going back to stock to see what you preferred? I myself enjoy both almost equally, with a slight edge to the SC. Both are great cables.


----------



## paradoxper

Fully realized, I'm losing sleep. completely.


----------



## F208Frank

paradoxper said:


> Fully realized, I'm losing sleep. completely.


Some things are worth losing sleep over, definitely what's in front of you is one of them...


----------



## F208Frank (May 5, 2022)

*A moment in time captured with words on a random wednesday...*


My love extends far and wide.

Lately more narrow than my new born’s thigh.

The Abyss brings me into the music deep.

We sad this piece of gear not cheap.

We spend what we do or do not have.

Just to escape to the land of the free.

While the baby is crying, my headphones are still on.

While the wife is shouting, my headphones are still on.

Feeling irresponsible just a little bit.

Wife soon to throw a fit.

This is my escape though.

Headphones, just whoa.


----------



## vonBaron

I have my TC for about 1,5y and they still amaze me!


----------



## sloomingbla

I'm getting a small bonus soon.. Thinking about splurging on the formula s (no powerman until a couple months from now, if I do). Gotta ask - how is the treble and bass response on that? My only issue with the 1266 tcs right now on my current setup is the slight "digital sheen" I get on my music. I have a tube dac/pre amp (lampizator golden atlantic) which helped tremendously, but my current amp (auralic mk2) is pretty bright for my tastes. I find myself getting fatigued rather quickly on the current setup. Does the formula s handle this stuff well?


----------



## F208Frank (May 4, 2022)

Yes, I believe the Formula S helps with that, also consider adding just a basic ethernet switch into the chain as it helped with that digital sheen quite a bit and was the tipping point for me, where I felt OK, that's finally resolved. The formula S does handle bass beautifully with the TC pairing, so no worries on that end.

I would be excited for you to try adding a basic ethernet switch to your chain temporarily to see if it helps and report back. A simple recommended one such as the DGS-105 5 Port Gigabit along with an Ifi 5v power cord would be a low risk investment as they would cost about 70 USD or so both together and could be bought off Amazon.

Maybe consider getting the Formula S and the ethernet switch combo together and try them individually and/or together.

Good luck.


----------



## jlbrach

sloomingbla said:


> I'm getting a small bonus soon.. Thinking about splurging on the formula s (no powerman until a couple months from now, if I do). Gotta ask - how is the treble and bass response on that? My only issue with the 1266 tcs right now on my current setup is the slight "digital sheen" I get on my music. I have a tube dac/pre amp (lampizator golden atlantic) which helped tremendously, but my current amp (auralic mk2) is pretty bright for my tastes. I find myself getting fatigued rather quickly on the current setup. Does the formula s handle this stuff well?


the powerman is a must...IMHO


----------



## Slim1970

sloomingbla said:


> I'm getting a small bonus soon.. Thinking about splurging on the formula s (no powerman until a couple months from now, if I do). Gotta ask - how is the treble and bass response on that? My only issue with the 1266 tcs right now on my current setup is the slight "digital sheen" I get on my music. I have a tube dac/pre amp (lampizator golden atlantic) which helped tremendously, but my current amp (auralic mk2) is pretty bright for my tastes. I find myself getting fatigued rather quickly on the current setup. Does the formula s handle this stuff well?


Don’t wait to long before adding the Powerman. It’s a nice performance boost for the Formula S.


----------



## Bonddam

Loving my 300B driven by Siemens C3g drivers. Totally different experience. Can't even put it into words. Oh Boy those bigger O-rings did the trick on fitment. Now the gap is all around and bass is finally normal. If you find fitment an issue O-rings do it.


----------



## karlheinz147

Bonddam said:


> Loving my 300B driven by Siemens C3g drivers. Totally different experience. Can't even put it into words. Oh Boy those bigger O-rings did the trick on fitment. Now the gap is all around and bass is finally normal. If you find fitment an issue O-rings do it.


What new size did you choose?


----------



## dude120

F208Frank said:


> Yes, I believe the Formula S helps with that, also consider adding just a basic ethernet switch into the chain as it helped with that digital sheen quite a bit and was the tipping point for me, where I felt OK, that's finally resolved. The formula S does handle bass beautifully with the TC pairing, so no worries on that end.
> 
> I would be excited for you to try adding a basic ethernet switch to your chain temporarily to see if it helps and report back. A simple recommended one such as the DGS-105 5 Port Gigabit along with an Ifi 5v power cord would be a low risk investment as they would cost about 70 USD or so both together and could be bought off Amazon.
> 
> ...


I'm very confused here...not to be rude, but how does the ethernet switch have any effect on the sound?


----------



## F208Frank (May 5, 2022)

dude120 said:


> I'm very confused here...not to be rude, but how does the ethernet switch have any effect on the sound?


Best direct advice is try yourself and see if it helps within your system, maybe it won't do a thing within your chain.

If you believe it does not help without trying and rather save the efforts, that works too.

I've seen enough of these discussions to not want to participate as I am not the most technical person, but I tend to try things myself to hear with own ears, biased or not, and make decisions based off that.


----------



## dude120

F208Frank said:


> Best direct advice is try yourself and see if it helps within your system, maybe it won't do a thing within your chain.
> 
> If you believe it does not help without trying and rather save the efforts, that works too.
> 
> I've seen enough of these discussions to not want to participate as I am not the most technical person, but I tend to try things myself to hear with own ears, biased or not, and make decisions based off that.



Fair enough. Wasn't trying to call you out, more trying to understand the rationale/logic.


----------



## leftside

Bonddam said:


> Loving my 300B driven by Siemens C3g drivers. Totally different experience. Can't even put it into words. Oh Boy those bigger O-rings did the trick on fitment. Now the gap is all around and bass is finally normal. If you find fitment an issue O-rings do it.


My Glenn custom 300B amp is also driven by C3g drivers. Which amp do you have?


----------



## Bonddam (May 6, 2022)

karlheinz147 said:


> What new size did you choose?


Morning I went with a bunch but the first one ai tried and liked right away is with padding under the headband for a lift.

I'll write what the package says.

#34 O-Ring
1 1/2" o.d. X 1"1/4 i.d.

the measurement I don't understand as that is written on the package






​


----------



## Bonddam

leftside said:


> My Glenn custom 300B amp is also driven by C3g drivers. Which amp do you have?


Woo WA5 LE. Ordered 3 pairs of c3g and going to sell off my 6sn7 collection except for 2.


----------



## joseph69

Bonddam said:


> Morning I went with a bunch but the first one ai tried and liked right away is with padding under the headband for a lift.
> 
> I'll write what the package says.
> 
> ...


OD = Outside Diameter measurement. 
ID = Inside Diameter measurement.


----------



## sloomingbla (May 6, 2022)

Hmm. Gosh I'm really torn between going with the formula s or trying to find a good tube amp around the same price range. I've probably asked this a hundred times on here, but anyone have a good suggestion for a tube amp, or a warmer/smoother sounding amp for 4500$ used max?

It's hard to find much info on how the formula s sounds besides "really good with the 1266". Does it lean towards warm or cold?


----------



## Sajid Amit (May 6, 2022)

sloomingbla said:


> Hmm. Gosh I'm really torn between going with the formula s or trying to find a good tube amp around the same price range. I've probably asked this a hundred times on here, but anyone have a good suggestion for a tube amp, or a warmer/smoother sounding amp for 4500$ used max?
> 
> It's hard to find much info on how the formula s sounds besides "really good with the 1266". Does it lean towards warm or cold?


You are right, lol. That seems to be the extent of the info out there.

Marketing lingo says its “rich” sounding but I also remember reading somewhere its on the “lean” side, so descriptions are neither remotely elaborate nor indicative of a consensus.

I read through several pages on the XI Audio thread last night but no luck so far on finding a descriptive discussion comparing it other similar amps.

There’s always the CFA3 which is supposed to be the bee’s knees with the TC.

There’s a review by John Grandberg who says its good with the TC but not quite so with other headphones. But John only mentions it in a comparison section of a Nimbus I think, so the discussion is not necessarily very detailed.

Luxman amps have, in my experience, paired well with the TC as well. Both headphone amps and speaker amps and have that midrange sweetness which benefits the TC.


----------



## sloomingbla

Sajid Amit said:


> You are right, lol. That seems to be the extent of the info out there.
> 
> Marketing lingo says its “rich” sounding but I also remember reading somewhere its on the “lean” side, so descriptions are neither remotely elaborate nor indicative of a consensus.
> 
> ...


I have heard of the CFA3, and it sounds like it would be fantastic - only problem is I really don't trust myself with any sort of soldering. If a prebuilt one were to go on sale I'd be happy, haha

I'm really intrigued by the luxman option! The p750-u seems like it could work really well especially considering used it seems to go for <2500$ used, which seems crazy from how people talk about it. And the warmer sound signature is exactly what I'm looking for, on top of it.

Are there any other, higher end luxman options that I might be missing out on? That's the only one I've seen mentioned in this thread after a brief search


----------



## Bonddam

The Formula S is great amp until tube amp comes into play. I'm getting more fun out of the WA5 LE with the slew of different tubes. Today my Mullard GZ33 came in with Canadian military 6sn7gta tubes and it sound really different with the indirectly heated rectifiers. The Woo amp loads the number of tubes giving you so much entertainment with just one amp. TubeWorldExpress.com great place to get tubes by the way.


----------



## Bonddam

WE300b New Productions
NOS JAN 6SN7GTA made in Canada 
NOS Mullard GZ33


----------



## Bonddam

Added my lift for having bigger O-rings


----------



## PhazeCrive (May 6, 2022)

I love the ability to change how it sounds depending on the track and genre. With rap or dubtep I like them with somewhat of a moderately snug fit. This gives access to the lowest frequencies and longer bass sustain. With rock, metal where the track doesnt get crazy low like 20-30hz, leaving a bit of a gap will let the TC kick some serious ass like nothing else. You'll get a little roll off, but it's a trade. If you wanted both the deep bass you get from the seal and boosted bass that comes from the gap, you'd need to add in a sub. Luckily the Soloist 3X GT amp has a sub out. Nothing new to the long-term TC members but I figured I might as well share as I've had 2 people DM me about the TC's bass and how to optimize it. There are new users here who would love to get the TC into top shape asap.

I use a snug fit on the TC with the 12 o'clock position for a pretty flat FR response (glasses users) and toe it in or out to tune that bass/stage. For me, opening the backside gives a slammier sound suited for rock which is highly addicting.

Seal it for the lowest registers and longer bass sustain, gap it for the slam and viscerality. Sub it for both. I think larger earpads would give you the best of both, as thats more air for the driver, but this thing is already quite large as is. Anyway, enjoy.


----------



## sloomingbla

Honestly, might be jumping the gun here but just ordered the Luxman p-750u from ebay! After reading a bunch of reviews it seems to be exactly what I was looking for. Going to be almost a month before it comes in, but I'm in no rush.

Fingers crossed it lives up to the hype, haha


----------



## Sajid Amit

sloomingbla said:


> I have heard of the CFA3, and it sounds like it would be fantastic - only problem is I really don't trust myself with any sort of soldering. If a prebuilt one were to go on sale I'd be happy, haha
> 
> I'm really intrigued by the luxman option! The p750-u seems like it could work really well especially considering used it seems to go for <2500$ used, which seems crazy from how people talk about it. And the warmer sound signature is exactly what I'm looking for, on top of it.
> 
> Are there any other, higher end luxman options that I might be missing out on? That's the only one I've seen mentioned in this thread after a brief search


If you want to go the speaker amp route this is good: https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2018/08/04/luxman-l-550axii/


----------



## Sajid Amit

sloomingbla said:


> Honestly, might be jumping the gun here but just ordered the Luxman p-750u from ebay! After reading a bunch of reviews it seems to be exactly what I was looking for. Going to be almost a month before it comes in, but I'm in no rush.
> 
> Fingers crossed it lives up to the hype, haha


Also this:
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cfa3-fully-upgraded-custom-amplifier.25242/


----------



## sloomingbla

Sajid Amit said:


> Also this:
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cfa3-fully-upgraded-custom-amplifier.25242/


Interesting that the speaker amp has a headphone out - slightly interested, but the fact that it has bass and treble knobs is actually a downside for me, along with a lack of qualitative reviews for the headphone end. 

A bit sad that I missed that listing of the cfa3 - must've typed in something wrong, strange to me. Regardless, as a relatively risk-free purchase the luxman p-750u seemed the best to me atm. Something about the way the reviewers talked about the amp really gave me a good feeling that my personal preferences will be met.

Course, we'll see once it arrives. Thank you for your help!


----------



## Sajid Amit

sloomingbla said:


> Interesting that the speaker amp has a headphone out - slightly interested, but the fact that it has bass and treble knobs is actually a downside for me, along with a lack of qualitative reviews for the headphone end.
> 
> A bit sad that I missed that listing of the cfa3 - must've typed in something wrong, strange to me. Regardless, as a relatively risk-free purchase the luxman p-750u seemed the best to me atm. Something about the way the reviewers talked about the amp really gave me a good feeling that my personal preferences will be met.
> 
> Course, we'll see once it arrives. Thank you for your help!


Welcome. 


sloomingbla said:


> Honestly, might be jumping the gun here but just ordered the Luxman p-750u from ebay! After reading a bunch of reviews it seems to be exactly what I was looking for. Going to be almost a month before it comes in, but I'm in no rush.
> 
> Fingers crossed it lives up to the hype, haha


Oh you bought it already…lol…didn’t notice. Should be fantastic with the TC. 4W @ 32ohms IIRC


----------



## deuter

sloomingbla said:


> Hmm. Gosh I'm really torn between going with the formula s or trying to find a good tube amp around the same price range. I've probably asked this a hundred times on here, but anyone have a good suggestion for a tube amp, or a warmer/smoother sounding amp for 4500$ used max?
> 
> It's hard to find much info on how the formula s sounds besides "really good with the 1266". Does it lean towards warm or cold?


I know that you have purchased the Luxman amp, can’t go wrong with that.
They have a house sound that they religiously tune across all their equipment.
Anyway, if you want some reading on the formula s there are some links on their website on why the designer has chosen the topology etc. It’s quite fascinating on why he believes single ended works better in his design then balanced.
As for the sound, I waited over 3 years twoing and frowing whether to upgrade from my previous tube amp to the formula s and Powerman. Previously used woo audio wa 6 se, audio gd master 7 I believe and finally had settled with monoprice liquid platinum for a long while but the formula s was something very different.
The inky black background is surreal. You don’t know what black background is until you’ve tried the formula s with the Powerman.
I kept asking myself why did I wait so long for this change, the reason is no one has the luxury or time to test with all the high end niche equipment and we have to mostly go by reviews.

Anyway have fun with the Luxman!
Do post some pictures of the setup when you get it.


----------



## JLoud

I give another vote for the Woo WA5le. It sounded very good with the TC. All the power you will ever need.


----------



## dubharmonic

The new o-rings help with the clamping force, though now the frame touches the top of my head. Anyone have a pad recommendation? I was considering the ZMF offerings.


----------



## Bonddam (May 8, 2022)

dubharmonic said:


> The new o-rings help with the clamping force, though now the frame touches the top of my head. Anyone have a pad recommendation? I was considering the ZMF offerings.


do what i did with a lift some posts back. and to keep it in looks I used o-ring to hold the pad.  I used a headphone pad for a thin head band forget had nothing to do



Geekria Hook and Loop Headband Cover + Headband Pad Set/Headband Protector with Zipper/DIY Installation No Tool Needed, Compatible with Bose B JBL ATH Hyperx Skullcandy Headphones (Black)​
did quick Amazon search and this is mine but mine is not leather


----------



## notofthisworld

Interested by the recent amp recommendations for the TC.  What would be some contenders for top of the line, no budget cap, but only for use with headphones (appropriately powered for headphones without opening Pandora's box of speaker amp recommendations)? 

Based on a lot of the posts, the Woo Audio WA33 might be the "best"


----------



## deuter

notofthisworld said:


> Interested by the recent amp recommendations for the TC.  What would be some contenders for top of the line, no budget cap, but only for use with headphones (appropriately powered for headphones without opening Pandora's box of speaker amp recommendations)?
> 
> Based on a lot of the posts, the Woo Audio WA33 might be the "best"


I have not heard it but the JPS version of WA33 seems to tick all boxes. Formula S with Powerman would be another choice at almost 1/3rd price.


----------



## Bonddam

There’s a used black WA33 on UpscaleAudio for $5999.00.


----------



## Bonddam

notofthisworld said:


> Interested by the recent amp recommendations for the TC.  What would be some contenders for top of the line, no budget cap, but only for use with headphones (appropriately powered for headphones without opening Pandora's box of speaker amp recommendations)?
> 
> Based on a lot of the posts, the Woo Audio WA33 might be the "best"


WA5 LE is my favorite of the 3 top amps. WA234 is best but requires too much love in setup than the other ones. Though you get to hear if 300 or 2A3 is your cup of tea. The dip in the mids is basically fixed with Woo amps now wonky mids I’ve yet to hear with any of my Woo amps. Rolling so many tubes and am now a roller. So Woo + Abyss = happy marriage.


----------



## paradoxper

It's midnight. Let's mesh.


----------



## Ruddy1

Fake 1266 has begun to appear on major trading platforms. We should always be vigilant

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisah7ji-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-over-ear


----------



## PhazeCrive (May 9, 2022)

Hey guys, I notice some of you have speaker amps and prefer them over headphone amps or even say less expensive speaker amps outperform higher cost headphone amps.

Got any great speaker amps in the 3,000 to 4,000 range for the TC? Was personally looking at the Benchmark AHB2.

I have the Soloist 3X GT which has a sub out. Should I get a speaker amp or just throw a subwoofer in the chain with the TC?


----------



## karlheinz147

Ruddy1 said:


> Fake 1266 has begun to appear on major trading platforms. We should always be vigilant
> 
> https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisah7ji-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-over-ear


What indicates it's fake? Is it not just an older 1266 model? It wouldn't make much sense to produce fakes of older models instead of the current TC


----------



## hke3g2006

Ruddy1 said:


> Fake 1266 has begun to appear on major trading platforms. We should always be vigilant
> 
> https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisah7ji-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-over-ear


it seems that it's not fake to me.....


----------



## JLoud

The price seems in line with current OG prices. The different  cable is the only thing that caught my eye. But it could have been reterminated. A good picture of the driver would be nice.


----------



## ufospls2

I think that @Ruddy1 is exactly right that those are fakes. About 6 months-a year ago fakes started showing up coming out of east asia. That fact that a few of those fakes may now be showing up on audiogon and audiomart etc...makes sense. The owner may not even know it is fake (if I am indeed right.)

That particular pair gives me the heeby jeebies because I have a distant memory of that style of cable being what came with the fakes that were listed on earphonediylabs website back in 2021. Those have since disappeared, and the posts in this thread have also disappeared, I guess because it was about fake headphones. I tried using waybackmachine to get photos of the fakes so I could prove those are fakes on Audiogon, but came up with nothing.

Now, I could be wrong, but I'll try to make the case for those *possibly *being fake.

I would caution getting the serial number, and checking with abyss directly with photos prior to buying any original model 1266 in the current market.

On the original 1266, the baffle of the driver was a shiny paint finish, not matte-ish like the audiogon pair. The pads also look different (though I suppose they could be aftermarket.) Also the baffle looks a bit thicker on the audiogon pair, from what I can tell from the photos.

*In the photo below from audiogon, you can see the baffles finish is a bit more matte than the original 1266. *





*Here are two photos of an original baffle, taken by me. *











*In terms of the pads shape, they do look different. Admittedly, pads can deform or be bought/homemade aftermarket.*





Below is a photo of an original 1266 pad, taken by me.





Overall, I'm disappointed I can't find the photos/listing from earphonediylabs because that would prove my suspicion of the audiogon pair being fakes.

Alternatively, I hope abyss chimes in, because obviously they would know best  : )


----------



## fiiom11pro

what about the logo, are they exactly the same?


----------



## ufospls2

fiiom11pro said:


> what about the logo, are they exactly the same?


Hmm, can't see one on the side of the headphone in the available photos. The stitching on the headband is remarkably similar, but that is admittedly probably one of the easiests parts to match. I wish I could find the earphonediylabs photos, as those would show the same cable etc... but without them I can't fully make a airtight case.

Below is a genuine headband photo taken by me







and below is the audiogon pair


----------



## jlbrach (May 9, 2022)

Ruddy1 said:


> Fake 1266 has begun to appear on major trading platforms. We should always be vigilant
> 
> https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisah7ji-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-over-ear


----------



## deuter

@Joe Skubinski might be able to chime in on these fakes or not so fakes!


----------



## Ruddy1 (May 9, 2022)

The most obvious feature is that the edges of ear pads are different. Genuine ear pads are glued to plastic The fake ear pads are wrapped with plastic buckles.


----------



## Ruddy1

Genuine paint is reflective, except for og and phi, which are frosted. Another important thing is that the mesh of genuine goods is inclined and thin, while the dust net of fake goods is very thick


----------



## ufospls2

Ruddy1 said:


> Genuine paint is reflective, except for og and phi, which are frosted. Another important thing is that the mesh of genuine goods is inclined and thin, while the dust net of fake goods is very thick


Thats actually not true about the driver baffle paint in my experience. Having owned all three, 

Original baffle is shiny and reflective
Phi baffle is Matte
TC baffle is Matte


----------



## Ruddy1

ufospls2 said:


> Thats actually not true about the driver baffle paint in my experience. Having owned all three,
> 
> Original baffle is shiny and reflective
> Phi baffle is Matte
> TC baffle is Matte


I explained that phi and CC and TC are not the same, and besides the number, phi and TC also have the identification of phi and TC, but fake goods do not have the identification of phi and TC


----------



## Ruddy1

You can see that there is no Phi symbol on the matte surface of the fake


----------



## ufospls2

Ruddy1 said:


> You can see that there is no Phi symbol on the matte surface of the fake


Sorry I misunderstood you


----------



## leftside

There was some talk on here of using the Abyss filters from Mitch at accuratesound.ca. I was so impressed with those filters, that I also sent Mitch my LCD4 to create filters for those. I know others on here also have the LCD4 in addition to the Abyss. I plugged in the filters to Roon today and I'm very impressed. To my ears these "clean up" the sound somewhat and provide a clearer presentation. I'll be keeping these filters on for sure. A much bigger difference than any cable I've tried.


----------



## notofthisworld

deuter said:


> I have not heard it but the JPS version of WA33 seems to tick all boxes. Formula S with Powerman would be another choice at almost 1/3rd price.


Has anyone compared these to the Moon 430HA (which i believe abyss uses as a go to because how solid it is) or the Bryston BHA-1 (another company knows for rock solid gear).  At multiple times the price, it would be interesting to hear of comparisons to see i the WA33 is any better.  Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Nagra had some expensive product at one time.  Not sure if there are any other makes where the cost is no object provides a value/quality that is heads and shoulders above the rest.


----------



## deuter

notofthisworld said:


> Has anyone compared these to the Moon 430HA (which i believe abyss uses as a go to because how solid it is) or the Bryston BHA-1 (another company knows for rock solid gear).  At multiple times the price, it would be interesting to hear of comparisons to see i the WA33 is any better.  Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Nagra had some expensive product at one time.  Not sure if there are any other makes where the cost is no object provides a value/quality that is heads and shoulders above the rest.


I have tested the Moon Amp, don't remember the model now as it was a few years back.
I found it a little too smooth with the Abyss, very different sound signature to what I'am used it.
So if you like laid back presentation this it might be for you.


----------



## paradoxper

You know. It's midnight. Lights out!

A ridiculous roll. WE300B are going back in rightfully. Ridiculous.


----------



## jlbrach

deuter said:


> I have tested the Moon Amp, don't remember the model now as it was a few years back.
> I found it a little too smooth with the Abyss, very different sound signature to what I'am used it.
> So if you like laid back presentation this it might be for you.


I owned the 430 and currently own the formula s/powerman with my abyss tc...IMHO the moon was a nce amp but the formula combo is hard and shoulders better...just one man opinion


----------



## Sajid Amit

Has anyone A/B-ed between the WA33 (Elite/JPS/Stock) and the Primavera Trafomatic or otherwise formed first-hand listening impressions, with these amps driving the TC?

I have a serious itch to get one of the two.

I know @paradoxper has the Trafomatic and it appears to be a champ of an amp.

Comparisons between the two driving the TC would be so incredibly helpful for me right now, lol.


----------



## simorag (May 14, 2022)

For those willing to give their AB-1266 TC drivers some serious gym in the bass region I recommend Graffiti Jazz No. 3, the 2nd track from the new David Chesky label _The Audiophile Society_ free sampler. Just ludicrous 

The whole sampler is very variegated and enjoyable, I did not expect any disappointment from David. Having headphone-specific mastering available is a great option of course, I will follow closely the next releases from this label


----------



## dubharmonic

Bonddam said:


> do what i did with a lift some posts back. and to keep it in looks I used o-ring to hold the pad.  I used a headphone pad for a thin head band forget had nothing to do
> 
> Geekria Hook and Loop Headband Cover + Headband Pad Set/Headband Protector with Zipper/DIY Installation No Tool Needed, Compatible with Bose B JBL ATH Hyperx Skullcandy Headphones (Black)​
> did quick Amazon search and this is mine but mine is not leather








ZMF's pilot pad is working great!


----------



## deuter

simorag said:


> For those willing to give their AB-1266 TC drivers some serious gym in the bass region I recommend Graffiti Jazz No. 3, the 2nd track from the new David Chesky label _The Audiophile Society_ free sampler. Just ludicrous
> 
> The whole sampler is very variegated and enjoyable, I did not expect any disappointment from David. Having headphone-specific mastering available is a great option of course, I will follow closely the next releases from this label
> 
> ​


Doesn’t apply to TC only, actually the bass is further improved by the OG given its more musical tuning but I get your point about the album.


----------



## deuter

On a side note I tried my Grado RS1i’s with some blues music by Peter Green and man do they sound wonderful through the Formula S.
Definitely worth getting them as a side pair given they are quite cheap and excellent value for money.


----------



## Sajid Amit (May 15, 2022)

Spent some time earlier today A/B-ing the Luxman 505uxii and the Accuphase e480 at a friend's place.





I am a big fan of Accuphase. I prefer Accuphase to Pass Labs, Gryphon, most of Mcintosh, when driving most headphones, especially the TC, because the Accuphase has this midrange sweetness which is just the right amount, and a treble that is a nice balance between being energetic and polite. I have owned the e380 for a long time.





However, in this instance, I wanted to see what the Luxman amp could do with the TC. I used my FiiO M17 as a palette cleanser.





The M17 drives the TC well. But of course, not nearly to its fullest technical performance potential. Switching to the Luxman, the stage widened massively even off the humble Denafrips Aries II DAC. The Luxman slammed probably twice as hard as the M17, which you would expect (the M17 was also not in DC powered mode). Resolution improved perceptibly.





Switching to the e480, the TC stage widened even more. The images were massive and out of the head. Slammed as hard as the Luxman was probably slightly, ever-so-slightly more detailed. I didn't have my own e380 at hand, but would have loved to compare.

Overall, in terms of tonal and technical performance, I preferred the Accuphase and the Luxman to the M17, which is of course, no surprise.

But what was surprising to me is how well the TC tonality synergizes with the M17. I find the M17 thick and smooth sounding, which does not work for me with ZMF cans. But with the TC, damn, it's a really lovely sound, even if you sacrifice some technical performance.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Sajid Amit said:


> Spent some time earlier today A/B-ing the Luxman 505uxii and the Accuphase e480 at a friend's place.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for your impressions, as a M17 owner this is a pleasure to read .


----------



## Cortazar

I was able to try Accuphase C290 pre + A50V directly via speaker output with Abyss 1266 Phi and it was a bliss! Accuphase is a match made in heaven for Abyss as it has a sweet midrange with plenty of detail and 50Watt power do abyss the justice. I could compare it (on the fly) with riviera AIC 10 balance with Telefunken G73-R tubes which I do own and must sadly confess the Accuphase was hands out the winner .
I know the combo pre, power of Accuphase is also pricy but if you have a chance to try it (or buy) it is a must!


----------



## karlheinz147

Bonddam said:


> do what i did with a lift some posts back. and to keep it in looks I used o-ring to hold the pad.  I used a headphone pad for a thin head band forget had nothing to do
> 
> Geekria Hook and Loop Headband Cover + Headband Pad Set/Headband Protector with Zipper/DIY Installation No Tool Needed, Compatible with Bose B JBL ATH Hyperx Skullcandy Headphones (Black)​
> did quick Amazon search and this is mine but mine is not leather


When a mother still takes care of her child's problems because he's only in his 30s.


----------



## F208Frank

karlheinz147 said:


> When a mother still takes care of her child's problems because he's only in his 30s.


Too funny and too sweet.


----------



## karlheinz147

F208Frank said:


> Too funny and too sweet.


It definitely helps with the weight distribution and hence comfort as well. The leather headband gives me a slight discomfort on the top of my head after 15-20 minutes, specially when the headphones are wide open and the o-rings and headband get tight.


----------



## Ruddy1

Cortazar said:


> I was able to try Accuphase C290 pre + A50V directly via speaker output with Abyss 1266 Phi and it was a bliss! Accuphase is a match made in heaven for Abyss as it has a sweet midrange with plenty of detail and 50Watt power do abyss the justice. I could compare it (on the fly) with riviera AIC 10 balance with Telefunken G73-R tubes which I do own and must sadly confess the Accuphase was hands out the winner .
> I know the combo pre, power of Accuphase is also pricy but if you have a chance to try it (or buy) it is a must!


Later version of phi, very good!


----------



## Sajid Amit

Cortazar said:


> I was able to try Accuphase C290 pre + A50V directly via speaker output with Abyss 1266 Phi and it was a bliss! Accuphase is a match made in heaven for Abyss as it has a sweet midrange with plenty of detail and 50Watt power do abyss the justice. I could compare it (on the fly) with riviera AIC 10 balance with Telefunken G73-R tubes which I do own and must sadly confess the Accuphase was hands out the winner .
> I know the combo pre, power of Accuphase is also pricy but if you have a chance to try it (or buy) it is a must!


Great to know. Will check out the combo.


----------



## Olmanwood123 (May 16, 2022)

PhazeCrive said:


> Hey guys, I notice some of you have speaker amps and prefer them over headphone amps or even say less expensive speaker amps outperform higher cost headphone amps.
> 
> Got any great speaker amps in the 3,000 to 4,000 range for the TC? Was personally looking at the Benchmark AHB2.
> 
> I have the Soloist 3X GT which has a sub out. Should I get a speaker amp or just throw a subwoofer in the chain with the TC?


I use a Chord Ttoby for my desktop and Chord Etude (shared with my 2-channel) in my main set-up


----------



## mitchb (May 17, 2022)

Has anyone compared the SC cable to a Danacable Nirvana or Ultra cable? I am enjoying a Nirvana cable with my Abyss TC’s but wonder how the SC cable compares.


----------



## F208Frank

Beloved user Simorag did a pretty cool write up that was pretty helpful to many, check it out.


----------



## F208Frank

If someone is looking for a like new Sagra DAC, check check. Thank you.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/eleven-audio-xi-audio-sagra-dac-bought-brand-new-3-21-22.26052/


----------



## paradoxper

Happy Sunday listening, brutes.


----------



## sloomingbla

Received my luxman p750u a couple of days ago - gotta say I’m impressed. Really rounded out the sound signature, and in technical performance beat my auralic mk2 in every way. 

Very clean and relaxed sound, with great soundstage and imaging. The bass is impressive too - even at low volumes it maintains a hefty level of impact. 

One thing to note compared to the auralic - with the auralic I felt like the music was taking place in in some alien space, or a room with strangely shaped walls. With the luxman, the music is just taking place in my room.

Very happy 😊


----------



## GreatCans

Tekunda said:


> Wouldn't it be better to run the Abyss phi on a Mscaler/HUGOTT2 combo instead of Mscaler/Dave? The HugoTT2 puts out:
> 
> Output power (unbalanced): (@1% THD) 288 mW RMS 300Ω; 7.3 W RMS 8Ω
> 
> ...


Guys I appreciate this is slightly off topic but would anyone know the power consumption of the TT2 in standby and it active mode  ?  I was hoping to leave the TT2 on all the time as I have handshake issues sometimes with my Auralic streamer ?  Thanks again


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Hi there, I have a TToby on the way and of course I am very keen trying out the TC with it. I remember from previous posts that a couple of custom cable makers were mentioned. If anybody wants to sell a connector, please let me know . 

I had planned to order from Moon Audio.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

In case you didn't catch this yet, new big boy headphone gear from dCS...


----------



## Axel

Everything is THE BEST when it comes out.
Let's see how it stands the test of time.
I doubt it drives the Susvara properly.
I've listened to the Bartok with the Abyss and the Susvara at the HIGH END show in Munich and it did not drive both. Full volume - no dynamics.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

This coming from a guy who owns a speaker amp for headphones, capable of an eardrum shattering 15+ watts of output power into a headphone.


----------



## PhazeCrive

If you're making 15 an hour you might as well forget about it. XD


----------



## filud

Has anyone tried AB-1266 Phi TC with Schiit Ragnarok 2?
Any impressions?


----------



## JLoud

Plenty of power, obviously, fast with great dynamics. I preferred the WA33, but I like tubes. If you like the sound signature of the TC, as in the mids are to your preferance, the Rag 2 is a nice choice. Especially if you plan to drive speakers as well.


----------



## paradoxper

300B > TC > \m/ > // (E)


----------



## Trance_Gott (May 25, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> 300B > TC > \m/ > // (E)


You really hear the very hard stuff.

Today hearing the new Evergrey with CRBN amazing!

Latest hard stuff At The Gates - The Nightmare Of Being awesome with 1266 TC!


----------



## paradoxper

Trance_Gott said:


> You really hear the very hard stuff.
> 
> Today hearing the new Evergrey with CRBN amazing!
> 
> Latest hard stuff At The Gates - The Nightmare Of Being awesome with 1266 TC!


Preferentially it feeds my soul most complete.
We can do the softies!


----------



## slazhx

@paradoxper @Trance_Gott 

How you guys rate this music genre with HE6 vs CRBN vs 1266 TC (or even with 007MKI)?

Love to hear your comment.


----------



## ufospls2

arayasg said:


> @paradoxper @Trance_Gott
> 
> How you guys rate this music genre with HE6 vs CRBN vs 1266 TC (or even with 007MKI)?
> 
> Love to hear your comment.


1266TC>HE6>CRBN


----------



## paradoxper

ufospls2 said:


> 1266TC>HE6>CRBN


Nods.

I'd also slip the LCD-4/5 and Utopia behind the HE-6.

but then a longer list accumulates with Solitaire, D8K, Rognir, etc etc. Ha.


----------



## Sajid Amit

paradoxper said:


> Nods.
> 
> I'd also slip the LCD-4/5 and Utopia behind the HE-6.
> 
> but then a longer list accumulates with Solitaire, D8K, Rognir, etc etc. Ha.


The Final Audio flagship headphones actually have good bass, especially the D8000.


----------



## deuter

Sajid Amit said:


> The Final Audio flagship headphones actually have good bass, especially the D8000.


So does the Fostex TH900


----------



## Trance_Gott

arayasg said:


> @paradoxper @Trance_Gott
> 
> How you guys rate this music genre with HE6 vs CRBN vs 1266 TC (or even with 007MKI)?
> 
> Love to hear your comment.


TC>CRBN>007 MK2 bass port mod>HE6


----------



## slazhx

ufospls2 said:


> 1266TC>HE6>CRBN





paradoxper said:


> Nods.
> 
> I'd also slip the LCD-4/5 and Utopia behind the HE-6.
> 
> but then a longer list accumulates with Solitaire, D8K, Rognir, etc etc. Ha.





Trance_Gott said:


> TC>CRBN>007 MK2 bass port mod>HE6



Thank you all for the input. It seems TC is top of the list. Apology for the naive question, but is there any specific technique about how to put TC on the head? I am so itched that went to try at the store today. I have a problem with the fitting as it is too wide. The phones are also heavy enough that I cannot adjust the cups aligned to the center of my ears.

Can you guys share the sonic impression of TC exclusively for metal/rock over the HE6? To my ears, the can feel the quantity of bass region from TC but it's not as slam/punchy as HE6. (just simple setup from Macbook to OPPO dac/amp from the store and I understand it's just a baby setup for TC)


----------



## jjshin23

arayasg said:


> Thank you all for the input. It seems TC is top of the list. Apology for the naive question, but is there any specific technique about how to put TC on the head? I am so itched that went to try at the store today. I have a problem with the fitting as it is too wide. The phones are also heavy enough that I cannot adjust the cups aligned to the center of my ears.
> 
> Can you guys share the sonic impression of TC exclusively for metal/rock over the HE6? To my ears, the can feel the quantity of bass region from TC but it's not as slam/punchy as HE6. (just simple setup from Macbook to OPPO dac/amp from the store and I understand it's just a baby setup for TC)


Getting the right fit is a little tricky but once you get it right... it is a treat!
Here is a video which might help.


----------



## slazhx

jjshin23 said:


> Getting the right fit is a little tricky but once you get it right... it is a treat!
> Here is a video which might help.




Thanks, John. It's kinda tricky so I need to try it again at the shop this weekend. Also, thank you for your PM. I will reply back after reading it thoroughly.


----------



## Frankie D

paradoxper said:


> Nods.
> 
> I'd also slip the LCD-4/5 and Utopia behind the HE-6.
> 
> but then a longer list accumulates with Solitaire, D8K, Rognir, etc etc. Ha.


Based on my auditions I would place Solitaire behind the Utopia.  Do you prefer it to the Utopia?


----------



## paradoxper

arayasg said:


> Thank you all for the input. It seems TC is top of the list. Apology for the naive question, but is there any specific technique about how to put TC on the head? I am so itched that went to try at the store today. I have a problem with the fitting as it is too wide. The phones are also heavy enough that I cannot adjust the cups aligned to the center of my ears.
> 
> Can you guys share the sonic impression of TC exclusively for metal/rock over the HE6? To my ears, the can feel the quantity of bass region from TC but it's not as slam/punchy as HE6. (just simple setup from Macbook to OPPO dac/amp from the store and I understand it's just a baby setup for TC)


Fitment takes trial and error. You might start by clarifying if you're center positioning the headband or fitting toward the crown, etc.

The HE-6 might be the most slammy headphone in the planar world except compared to the 1266. With dedicated amplification, there is better bass definition and treble extension with a smoother response. HE-6 presents too much glare and excessive bite.

I can't think of a single area the HE-6 outperforms the TC. HE-6 is just a little wild but a great value with a high ceiling.


----------



## paradoxper (May 26, 2022)

Frankie D said:


> Based on my auditions I would place Solitaire behind the Utopia.  Do you prefer it to the Utopia?


Under what listening criteria?

Utopia has an indefinite smaller stage with great imaging to make up for it. Utopia is a little punchier and more dynamic and slightly more resolved.
Solitaire has more bass with a balanced makeup with a dark tilt.


----------



## PhazeCrive (May 26, 2022)

arayasg said:


> Thank you all for the input. It seems TC is top of the list. Apology for the naive question, but is there any specific technique about how to put TC on the head? I am so itched that went to try at the store today. I have a problem with the fitting as it is too wide. The phones are also heavy enough that I cannot adjust the cups aligned to the center of my ears.
> 
> Can you guys share the sonic impression of TC exclusively for metal/rock over the HE6? To my ears, the can feel the quantity of bass region from TC but it's not as slam/punchy as HE6. (just simple setup from Macbook to OPPO dac/amp from the store and I understand it's just a baby setup for TC)


I stretch mine all the way out and bend the frame so the bottom of the earpad (if it's at 12 o'clock) angles inward to minimize that gap. Too much gap kills bass. It should just lightly contour your head. The light contour acts as the gap and gives the TC plenty of air to breathe while not letting any bass bleed out. On mine I can stick my thumbs through the bottom gap but it's small to where I can't reach and feel my ears. This is what I feel to be perfect. Perfectly extended bass, plenty of slam as well. Truly ass whooping. At no point should these earpads be pressing to where they are smushed against your head. You'll need to experiment with the adjustment slider and bending that frame, though I wouldn't do that on a store model.

As for metal this headphone is almost "alive" in the bass. It really growls at you due to the resonant characteristic that makes it represent the sound of a room. Never heard the HE6 but this slam can't disappoint.


----------



## vonBaron

paradoxper said:


> Fitment takes trial and error. You might start by clarifying if you're center positioning the headband or fitting toward the crown, etc.
> 
> The HE-6 might be the most slammy headphone in the planar world except compared to the 1266. With dedicated amplification, there is better bass definition and treble extension with a smoother response. HE-6 presents too much glare and excessive bite.
> 
> I can't think of a single area the HE-6 outperforms the TC. HE-6 is just a little wild but a great value with a high ceiling.


Recently i heard HE-6 OG full stock, i only hold about 1h, very shouty, harsh, bright sound. Not even close to any 1266 models.


----------



## jjshin23

vonBaron said:


> Recently i heard HE-6 OG full stock, i only hold about 1h, very shouty, harsh, bright sound. Not even close to any 1266 models.


Sounds about right with full stock. When doing some mods, properly amping and vegan pads it really makes for a smoother presentation. It scales up quite well but I agree the TC beats it all fronts.


----------



## mitchb

The TC’s are the most amazing headphones I’ve ever experienced. Proper placement is essential. I highly recommend watching the videos of introduction to these headphones.


----------



## fiiom11pro

Axel said:


> Everything is THE BEST when it comes out.
> Let's see how it stands the test of time.
> I doubt it drives the Susvara properly.
> I've listened to the Bartok with the Abyss and the Susvara at the HIGH END show in Munich and it did not drive both. Full volume - no dynamics.




the tc can but the susvara lifeless.


----------



## sahmen

vonBaron said:


> Recently i heard HE-6 OG full stock, i only hold about 1h, very shouty, harsh, bright sound. Not even close to any 1266 models.


To be fair, you seem to be describing all the properties of an He-6 that is not properly driven here. As most people who have owned one know, the He-6 is a very demanding mistress who would only show her "best parts" in chains that are equipped to feed her what she craves in refined power and current. When properly fed, her scaling powers are stunning.

Note that I am not necessarily arguing that it would "beat" the 1266 TC, as the latter's performance will also be dependent on synergy with particular chains.


----------



## slazhx

I have watched the tutorial about 1266 fitting from Abyss youtube channel. Quite tricky but I see it would shine with the right fitting. 

I think both 1266 TC and HE6 are true gems and worth enough to keep both. (Just my two cents)

Speaking of which, any general agreement for all-rounder speaker amp for these two beasts? What do you think about First Watt J2? I am aiming it for my HE6.


----------



## vonBaron

sahmen said:


> To be fair, you seem to be describing all the properties of an He-6 that is not properly driven here. As most people who have owned one know, the He-6 is a very demanding mistress who would only show her "best parts" in chains that are equipped to feed her what she craves in refined power and current. When properly fed, her scaling powers are stunning.
> 
> Note that I am not necessarily arguing that it would "beat" the 1266 TC, as the latter's performance will also be dependent on synergy with particular chains.


Niimbus don't have power to drive properly HE-6? Lol ok.


----------



## PhazeCrive (May 27, 2022)

Anyone ever watch ASMR ear cleaning videos with the TC? This is such a punchy and impactful headphone that you really feel every stroke, pluck, drop of water, tap, etc from the TC. Impacts and images like mad. The physicality of this headphone is not limited to the bass. All frequencies can be felt, which is something you don't really get to experience that much. TC brings it out in spades.



Like wow just that short preview. Really gives a new dimension to AMSR/Binaural audio.


----------



## sahmen

vonBaron said:


> Niimbus don't have power to drive properly HE-6? Lol ok.


Well then that seems to be precisely the problem.  I'm using the Niimbus US4 to drive both He6SE V2 and the 1266 TC, and i am not hearing any of the shoutiness or  unpleasantness you have described on the He6SEV2.  I unfortunately don't have my OG He-6 to compare, as I sold it long before getting the Niimbus.  The OG He-6 could be tuned slightly differently from the He6SE V2 (I give you that), but the two versions share the same specs, so I wouldn't expect many drastic differences in their drivability or synergy when paired with the Niimbus... Incidentally, the OG He-6 seemed to fare pretty well on the V281 (without any harshness or shoutiness although the V281 has less power and refinement than the Niimbus, as I recall)... So there remains a question to be resolved here, and I can't put my finger on exactly what's amiss. 

 BTW I also use a Sonnet Morpheus DAC in combination with the Niimbus, as I'm sure you're aware.


----------



## Somatic

Does anyone know how to add your classified listings on your signature? I read the FAQ but is was never mentioned. Please PM.

Side note, selling the Abyss 1266 Phi TC in great condition. Comes with extra pads, adapter, cables. Thanks.


----------



## Melting735

Guys. I just put my Niimbus US 5 Pro on sale. I am getting so busy atm that I could not spend enough time to enjoy this gem. Letting it go for someone who really need it. One of my favorite paring with Abyss cans.

Check my listing. Very reasonable price. If you are interested, pm me.


----------



## paradoxper

arayasg said:


> I have watched the tutorial about 1266 fitting from Abyss youtube channel. Quite tricky but I see it would shine with the right fitting.
> 
> I think both 1266 TC and HE6 are true gems and worth enough to keep both. (Just my two cents)
> 
> Speaking of which, any general agreement for all-rounder speaker amp for these two beasts? What do you think about First Watt J2? I am aiming it for my HE6.


I'm a CFA3 shill as it's a tour de force, however, the J2 is my favorite Pass amp within reason -- was always a really stellar pairing with the (HE-6) Code-6 at the time and brought out the Phi's soul also at the time so I think you'd be quite pleased with both pairings.


----------



## slazhx

paradoxper said:


> I'm a CFA3 shill as it's a tour de force, however, the J2 is my favorite Pass amp within reason -- was always a really stellar pairing with the (HE-6) Code-6 at the time and brought out the Phi's soul also at the time so I think you'd be quite pleased with both pairings.



Appreciated your help. I am quite certain about J2/HE-6 combo but still doubtful with PHI pairing. With this, I am kinda little bit hold back from J2, at least until I find enough info/impression. But what you commented about J2/PHI is really like a green light to me. I will try talking to Mark.

Thank you!


----------



## paradoxper

arayasg said:


> Appreciated your help. I am quite certain about J2/HE-6 combo but still doubtful with PHI pairing. With this, I am kinda little bit hold back from J2, at least until I find enough info/impression. But what you commented about J2/PHI is really like a green light to me. I will try talking to Mark.
> 
> Thank you!


My bigger recommendation would be keep the HE-9 and exploit the 1266/HE-6 with a tube pre.


----------



## slazhx

paradoxper said:


> My bigger recommendation would be keep the HE-9 and exploit the 1266/HE-6 with a tube pre.



You mean HE-9 is good enough that adding a tube preamp to HE-9 would be better? Actually HE9 is a preamp/headamp. (No speaker taps) I'm sorry but do I understand correctly?

Any tube pre would you recommend?


----------



## Sajid Amit

paradoxper said:


> My bigger recommendation would be keep the HE-9 and exploit the 1266/HE-6 with a tube pre.


+1


----------



## paradoxper (May 30, 2022)

arayasg said:


> You mean HE-9 is good enough that adding a tube preamp to HE-9 would be better? Actually HE9 is a preamp/headamp. (No speaker taps) I'm sorry but do I understand correctly?
> 
> Any tube pre would you recommend?


I believe so. Although it takes particularly more consideration to match-game-mate, the yield of enough tube harmonics to sweeten both planar drivers is greater than the projected change of solid state amplification.

I don't believe there is any better headphone tube pairing for planars than the 300B --sins of commission are entirely in range of acceptability > you will lose a little tight delineation in exchange for a fuller body and more present midrange. The key is choosing provisional quality transformers and power supply requisite.

An alternative route would be EL34 amplification that won't overtly sacrifice in warmth.


----------



## slazhx

paradoxper said:


> I believe so. Although it takes particularly more consideration to match-game-mate, the yield of enough tube harmonics to sweeten both planar drivers is greater than the projected change of solid state amplification.
> 
> I don't believe there is any better headphone tube pairing for planars than the 300B --sins of commission are entirely in range of acceptability > you will lose a little tight delineation in exchange for a fuller body and more present midrange. The key is choosing provisional quality transformers and power supply requisite.
> 
> An alternative route would be EL34 amplification that won't overtly sacrifice in warmth.



@paradoxper @Sajid Amit Thank you for more input. I have also heard about the nirvana route for HE6 with EL34 push-pull tube. (via speaker taps) My original plan was to use HE9 as a preamp connecting to that tube. However, my music type is mostly metal like Dream Theater but at the same time also love Hans Zimmer's OST. I have a mindset that the tube will always lessen the attack, especially for metal. (which not sure right or wrong) So, I thought SS amp, J2, might fit my taste rather than the tube. Tbh, I'm lost in a maze whether to go with SS or Tube in this case.

Can you give me advice whenever you have time? Thank you.


----------



## paradoxper

arayasg said:


> @paradoxper @Sajid Amit Thank you for more input. I have also heard about the nirvana route for HE6 with EL34 push-pull tube. (via speaker taps) My original plan was to use HE9 as a preamp connecting to that tube. However, my music type is mostly metal like Dream Theater but at the same time also love Hans Zimmer's OST. I have a mindset that the tube will always lessen the attack, especially for metal. (which not sure right or wrong) So, I thought SS amp, J2, might fit my taste rather than the tube. Tbh, I'm lost in a maze whether to go with SS or Tube in this case.
> 
> Can you give me advice whenever you have time? Thank you.


Nirvana would be a great choice. Although to your proceeding point, this is a decisively more soft sounding presentation.

It's a careful balance to ensure you only round off the sharpness without blunting attack -- it's why the ss amplification + tube pre is more feasible in application.

Not a catchall: with a convoluted roadmap but the reward is transformative.

This is a direct and primary reason I have not and will not actually recommend a direct 300B headamp, for example.
@normie610 help me fill in the gaps.


----------



## Articnoise

arayasg said:


> You mean HE-9 is good enough that adding a tube preamp to HE-9 would be better? Actually HE9 is a preamp/headamp. (No speaker taps) I'm sorry but do I understand correctly?
> 
> Any tube pre would you recommend?


I would start with HE9 as a preamp and get a good second hand power amp. That way you can test against your HE9 and if you don't like the power amp you can sell it without any money lost. Later on with the right power amp you can test with better (tube) preamps.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> Nirvana would be a great choice. Although to your proceeding point, this is a decisively more soft sounding presentation.
> 
> It's a careful balance to ensure you only round off the sharpness without blunting attack -- it's why the ss amplification + tube pre is more feasible in application.
> 
> ...


Well said 👌🏼 nothing from me to add


----------



## Ruddy1

Today, I finally got the brand-new Alcantara earmuffs, so I checked the Alcantara earmuffs. Compared with the original earmuffs, they are more comfortable, less low-frequency but softer, slightly lower resolution, much higher density, slightly lower high-frequency and sound field! It's just a simple check. I need to listen longer


----------



## Ruddy1

Ruddy1 said:


> Today, I finally got the brand-new Alcantara earmuffs, so I checked the Alcantara earmuffs. Compared with the original earmuffs, they are more comfortable, less low-frequency but softer, slightly lower resolution, much higher density, slightly lower high-frequency and sound field! It's just a simple check. I need to listen longer


I spent enough time checking Alcantara! Next, let me talk about the results I heard. The sound of instruments under Alcantara earmuffs lacks a lot of overtones. The sound is not musical and very mediocre. I don't think it is a good earmuff. The sound becomes non three-dimensional. The sound becomes far away but lacks a sense of space. The voice is dead and there is no sense of emptiness


----------



## ra990

Where are these different earpads coming from?


----------



## F208Frank

ra990 said:


> Where are these different earpads coming from?


Man I dont know, but I hope my stock ones last a good while because it is going to hurt to replace em at 400 a pair!


----------



## paradoxper (Jun 1, 2022)

Thall

Crushing


----------



## paradoxper

deprivation


----------



## Axel

paradoxper said:


> Thall
> 
> Crushing


Listened to a few secs from each track (couldn't listen to more than that).
Now I can comprehend your references in sound.


----------



## dukeskd

paradoxper said:


> Thall
> 
> Crushing


Yo... this is some awesome stuff.


----------



## paradoxper

Axel said:


> Listened to a few secs from each track (couldn't listen to more than that).
> Now I can comprehend your references in sound.


You tried! Haha.


dukeskd said:


> Yo... this is some awesome stuff.


They really hit a stride.


----------



## riverground

Not sure how many here use PEQ but I've been playing around with it for a bit and I think this has been the most pleasing I've done so far.

Could anyone else try it out and tell me what you think?


----------



## sloomingbla

Just gotta say, I've been having a really great time with my 1266's. I've reached a point of total satisfaction.. basically.

It's a blessing to have access to such a beautiful experience whenever I feel the need. Great respect to the folks at abyss for coming up with such an amazing product. Unreal bass, detail, and soundstage. Feels like I'm in another world when I listen to them.

Current setup is Abyss 1266 tc (with custom cable, not sure of brand but came with the 1266's from the original owner, was apparently bought for 1k usd, it was VITAL here for good sub bass) -> luxman p750u (on low gain, I listen at lower volumes and low gain seems to take a bit of harshness off of the highs) -> lampizator golden atlantic (one of the older models, non TRP).

I'm sure many setups could surpass mine, not sharing as a recommendation more just sharing for the nerdiness


----------



## paradoxper

sloomingbla said:


> Just gotta say, I've been having a really great time with my 1266's. I've reached a point of total satisfaction.. basically.
> 
> It's a blessing to have access to such a beautiful experience whenever I feel the need. Great respect to the folks at abyss for coming up with such an amazing product. Unreal bass, detail, and soundstage. Feels like I'm in another world when I listen to them.
> 
> ...


Congrats! total satisfaction seems a difficult delusion to attain. Great chain btw.

I'm approaching.


----------



## sloomingbla (Jun 6, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> Congrats! total satisfaction seems a difficult delusion to attain. Great chain btw.
> 
> I'm approaching.


Haha. A difficult delusion to attain puts it perfectly.

A really big part of it was a bit of a shift in philosophy, too - total satisfaction was attained here, but saying that might be a bit misleading.

For quite a while I've had the idea that I would be satisfied once I had the next best thing, or if I spent x amount of money. Ironically, I figured out that was basically the thing keeping me from finding that peak level of satisfaction. If you search to find the perfect sound, you'll also spend your time searching for what's wrong with the current sound... to the extent of making up problems for the heck of it, and ignoring how great they really are in the process.

These headphones have limitations like any other headphone, but where headphones ARE good, these are perfect.

Edit - rewrote to be a bit less intellectual and wordy


----------



## vonBaron

I think 1266 TC scales down very good, i listen them while ago with Fiio K9 Pro, very good synergy IMO.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Jun 6, 2022)

sloomingbla said:


> Haha. A difficult delusion to attain puts it perfectly.
> 
> A really big part of it was a bit of a shift in philosophy, too - total satisfaction was attained here, but saying that might be a bit misleading.
> 
> ...


I am very satisfied with my rig right now.

I sold several of my summitfi headphones and added some not-so-summitfi to a few summitfi, purely going by listening pleasure. TC of course will *never* get sold, I can say with near 100% certainty, lol. 

Don't get upgrade thoughts as frequently at all, other than thinking a bit about the new Zahl and Feliks amps lol.


----------



## orrm

Sajid Amit said:


> I am very satisfied with my rig right now.
> 
> I sold several of my summitfi headphones and added some not-so-summitfi to a few summitfi, purely going by listening pleasure. TC of course will *never* get sold, I can say with near 100% certainty, lol.
> 
> Don't get upgrade thoughts as frequently at all, other than thinking a bit about the new Zahl and Feliks amps lol.


 
Lol those two alone would be almost $15K but I also am intrigued on how they'll pair with the Susvara and my newest addition coming tomorrow - 1266 TC!


----------



## Slim1970

Sajid Amit said:


> I am very satisfied with my rig right now.
> 
> I sold several of my summitfi headphones and added some not-so-summitfi to a few summitfi, purely going by listening pleasure. TC of course will *never* get sold, I can say with near 100% certainty, lol.
> 
> Don't get upgrade thoughts as frequently at all, other than thinking a bit about the new Zahl and Feliks amps lol.


This is where I am at too. I'm more than good on headphones. I only want to try the new Zahl amp as a potential upgrade to my GS-X MK2


----------



## sloomingbla

Sajid Amit said:


> I am very satisfied with my rig right now.
> 
> I sold several of my summitfi headphones and added some not-so-summitfi to a few summitfi, purely going by listening pleasure. TC of course will *never* get sold, I can say with near 100% certainty, lol.
> 
> Don't get upgrade thoughts as frequently at all, other than thinking a bit about the new Zahl and Feliks amps lol.


Haha. I'll *always* have the desire to upgrade, but only out of curiosity, instead of what felt like necessity for a long time. I probably won't upgrade anything for at least a year or two though.


----------



## Sajid Amit

orrm said:


> Lol those two alone would be almost $15K but I also am intrigued on how they'll pair with the Susvara and my newest addition coming tomorrow - 1266 TC!


Yeah, I am not going by cost. 

I just don't find that "chasing the summit" in terms of price or even technical performance alone, is worth it for me. Tonality has a lot to do with my listening pleasure as well, _after a certain level of technical achievement has been achieved_. 

I also doubt whether I can break down listening pleasure to (1) tonality and (2) technical performance alone. Reviews are so subjective. 

Sometimes you just click with how a certain headphone does something, you know. 

That said, I don't mind splurging as long as it gives me listening pleasure.


----------



## orrm

Sajid Amit said:


> Yeah, I am not going by cost.
> 
> I just don't find that "chasing the summit" in terms of price or even technical performance alone, is worth it for me. Tonality has a lot to do with my listening pleasure as well, _after a certain level of technical achievement has been achieved_.
> 
> ...



oh I was more referring about myself and interest of those two and why I would probably need to wait or sell some gear for it. Wasn't getting into your wallet.
I also agree with you what you said, I think listening pleasure comes on top of everything but once you get used to a certain level of detail and sonic capabilities it's hard to go back from it so there's a minimum level (that isn't really minimal) that a headphone must provide me in order to stay around.



> Sometimes you just click with how a certain headphone does something, you know.


Best example I can think of as of late - LCD-5 with the GS-X mini and that "grunge" feeling it provided. Still one of my favorite pairings of all time.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Jun 7, 2022)

orrm said:


> oh I was more referring about myself and interest of those two and why I would probably need to wait or sell some gear for it. Wasn't getting into your wallet.
> I also agree with you what you said, I think listening pleasure comes on top of everything but once you get used to a certain level of detail and sonic capabilities it's hard to go back from it so there's a minimum level (that isn't really minimal) that a headphone must provide me in order to stay around.
> 
> 
> Best example I can think of as of late - LCD-5 with the GS-X mini and that "grunge" feeling it provided. Still one of my favorite pairings of all time.


I can see that.

That bar for minimum acceptable technical performance will vary from person to person, and even within that, some will index for a certain trait more than others. Some prefer all-out resolution, some value dynamics (punch and slam) more, or stage, or timbre, and of course, most seek a necessary combination of all these traits. 

What we index for even changes over time.

It's all good, of course.

We are probably diverting this thread too much lol.

My SC cables are arriving soon. Excited.


----------



## sloomingbla

Sajid Amit said:


> I can see that.
> 
> That bar for minimum acceptable technical performance will vary from person to person, and even within that, some will index for a certain trait more than others. Some prefer all-out resolution, some value dynamics (punch and slam) more, or stage, or timbre, and of course, most seek a necessary combination of all these traits.
> 
> ...


I'd love to hear the comparison! I know for a fact the custom cable I have makes a massive difference.


----------



## paradoxper

Sajid Amit said:


> I am very satisfied with my rig right now.
> 
> I sold several of my summitfi headphones and added some not-so-summitfi to a few summitfi, purely going by listening pleasure. TC of course will *never* get sold, I can say with near 100% certainty, lol.
> 
> Don't get upgrade thoughts as frequently at all, other than thinking a bit about the new Zahl and Feliks amps lol.


All you need is some DHT to set it off.


----------



## inseconds99 (Jun 7, 2022)

Sajid Amit said:


> I am very satisfied with my rig right now.
> 
> I sold several of my summitfi headphones and added some not-so-summitfi to a few summitfi, purely going by listening pleasure. TC of course will *never* get sold, I can say with near 100% certainty, lol.
> 
> Don't get upgrade thoughts as frequently at all, other than thinking a bit about the new Zahl and Feliks amps lol.


What did you sell, what do you still have and which headphones get the most use. Also, which are the most comfortable?

I’m currently on a journey to find all day comfort multi use headphones. HD800S we’re close but they bother my jaw. Utopia was near perfect sounding, but too heavy and hot on ears.


----------



## paradoxper

FROM


----------



## Sajid Amit (Jun 8, 2022)

Slim1970 said:


> This is where I am at too. I'm more than good on headphones. I only want to try the new Zahl amp as a potential upgrade to my GS-X MK2





inseconds99 said:


> What did you sell, what do you still have and which headphones get the most use. Also, which are the most comfortable?
> 
> I’m currently on a journey to find all day comfort multi use headphones. HD800S we’re close but they bother my jaw. Utopia was near perfect sounding, but too heavy and hot on ears.


I sold the Stax headphones, SR1a and the Susvara. Stax were too delicate sounding for me, and not realistic, and I concede "realism" is subjective depending on what you are indexing for. Some may find the liquid nature of their mids and treble realistic. For me without a realistic sense of note weight, I am not engaged in the long run.

SR1a was a harder choice to sell, but I didn't like the form factor and lack of bass extension, and I did find the presentation a tad too forward, and sometimes dry and clinical.

Have sold the PrimaLuna EVO 200 amp and the EVO 400 amp and pre-amp. I owned 3 PrimaLuna units and enjoyed using them while I owned them. They had great synergy with the SR1a, especially the integrated. They were also far too massive for my desk. Have sold a bunch of other speaker amps but that's a long story, probably.

As for non-summit-fiers, I enjoy the Arya Stealth a lot because it gives me that HFM sound, with adequate detail to my ears (really good detail and not just for the price), enormous stage, and it's more forward compared to the Susvara. It checks all my boxes while giving me the HFM sound. I would get the Shang JR which has a nice tuning for my tastes and good bass for a stat, but the build quality is not my cup of tea. The JR is a nice-sounding headphone though.

I added two ZMFs to my collection: the Verite Closed and the Atrium. The Atrium should reach me soon. The VC I already have a video out on. Will listen to it today. I like how it sounds and the closed-back use case is awesome.

I have a Stellia but have added the Celeste, because I find that the Celeste has a cleaner and better-tuned presentation. I even like the subbass to midbass balance of the Celeste more and the difference in resolution is surprisingly small. The Stellia does a few other things better, but this is one case where I am enjoying the Celeste more than the Stellia. Might keep one of the two.

I have also added an HE-6 (6s) and an HE6SE to my collection. I enjoy how upfront, dynamic and aggressive they sound. I understand why many TC owners like the HE6. I might keep either the HE6 6s or the HE6SE.

I have held on to the Utopia. With the right DAC and amp behind it, I love how dynamic it sounds. Drums and riffs on it are so much fun (for me).

I have the TC of course and love it a lot.

I am rocking two DACs. The Holo May is still my favorite having bought and sold other DACs. It has a touch more body and warmth and it suits my TC and Utopia well. I have added the far more clinical Matrix Audio Element X for use with my ZMFs. I have also added a Feliks Euforia AE, which is just lovely with the ZMFs. The Element X > Euforia AE > VC chain is wonderful for all-day listening, genre no bar. Also very comfortable.

All done and ready to go. Awaiting on a bunch of cables to reach me from JPS, DHC, Norne, etc. So that's the system update in a nutshell. Apologies for derailing this thread. Should have done this through a PM to @inseconds99 .

Focusing a lot more on listening enjoyment, finally, lol.


----------



## slazhx (Jun 7, 2022)

Sajid Amit said:


> I sold the Stax headphones, SR1a and the Susvara. Stax were too delicate sounding for me, and not realistic, and I concede "realism" is subjective depending on what you are indexing for. Some may find the liquid nature of their mids and treble realistic. For me without a realistic sense of note weight, I am not engaged in the long run.
> 
> SR1a was a harder choice to sell, but I didn't like the form factor and lack of bass extension, and I did find the presentation a tad too forward, and sometimes dry and clinical.
> 
> ...



I have seen comments saying TC is mostly superior than HE6 OG in every views, except slam and punch (but not miles away). So I guess TC is more versatile while HE6 is a little better for metal.

What do you think about this? And why you plan to keep them both?

Thank you for sharing your thought.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Jun 7, 2022)

arayasg said:


> I have heard comments saying TC is mostly superior than HE6 OG in every views, except slam and punch (but not miles way). So maybe TC is more versatile while HE6 is a little better for metal.
> 
> What do you think about this? And why you plan to keep them both?
> 
> Thank you for sharing your thought.


TC is superior to the HE6 OG/SE. 

But the HE 6 is a different enough sound with fun qualities like its aggression and dynamic impact.

It's like having a different color on your palette, relatively less preferrable, but enjoyable nonetheless.


----------



## orrm

Sajid Amit said:


> I sold the Stax headphones, SR1a and the Susvara. Stax were too delicate sounding for me, and not realistic, and I concede "realism" is subjective depending on what you are indexing for. Some may find the liquid nature of their mids and treble realistic. For me without a realistic sense of note weight, I am not engaged in the long run.
> 
> SR1a was a harder choice to sell, but I didn't like the form factor and lack of bass extension, and I did find the presentation a tad too forward, and sometimes dry and clinical.
> 
> ...


Nice summary and obviously awesome gear. One day I'd love to pick your brain on some of the decisions and preferences further but not in this thread. Enjoy the music!


----------



## slazhx

Sajid Amit said:


> TC is superior to the HE6 OG/SE.
> 
> But the HE 6 is a different enough sound with fun qualities like its aggression and dynamic impact.
> 
> It's like having a different color on your palette, relatively less preferrable, but enjoyable nonetheless.



Thanks for this heads-up.


----------



## orrm

My impression of my first 30 minutes with the 1266 connected through the Superconductor dual 3pin XLR to a standard WA33 (low impedance, high level settings) and Spring 3 KTE for the DAC:
Oh my god the bass is addictive.
Love the speed.
Detailed and clear (sounds crisp compared to what I'm used to with Susvara and ZMFs).
I definitely understand why it was described to me sometimes as the bad boy of the TOTL. From the industrial design to feeling on the head to the sound signature it's definitely more aggressive than my other favorites.
Treble might be a bit too much for me but requires further listening to really tell.
Thought I'd feel a bit more punch and slam tbh

I listened mainly to trance music and bass oriented stuff since that's what I bought them to try with but further listening I'll try other genres as well.

I feel like I had good fit, air gap was present and cool effect on sound. They do feel like they might fall off a bit so will see if change anything later. They're a tad heavy to my liking so clearly not for long listening sessions.

So far these might be my go to for short in your face electronic sessions. Time will tell.


----------



## karlheinz147

Sajid Amit said:


> I sold the Stax headphones, SR1a and the Susvara. Stax were too delicate sounding for me, and not realistic, and I concede "realism" is subjective depending on what you are indexing for. Some may find the liquid nature of their mids and treble realistic. For me without a realistic sense of note weight, I am not engaged in the long run.
> 
> SR1a was a harder choice to sell, but I didn't like the form factor and lack of bass extension, and I did find the presentation a tad too forward, and sometimes dry and clinical.
> 
> ...


Really nice collection. What made you sell Susvara and keep the others?


----------



## Sajid Amit (Jun 8, 2022)

karlheinz147 said:


> Really nice collection. What made you sell Susvara and keep the others?


Lol. I have discussed this in my videos. 

One of the discussions on HeadFi led to massive back and forth, prompting moderators to step in. I did my best to keep the convo civil and peaceful (which I value and strictly adhere to), but it still surprises me how irate people get when a TOTL they like, is sold. 

I'll PM you a link to a vid where I discuss my choices.


----------



## karlheinz147

Sajid Amit said:


> Lol. I have discussed this in my videos.
> 
> One of the discussions on HeadFi led to massive back and forth, prompting moderators to step in. I did my best to keep the convo civil and peaceful (which I value and strictly adhere to), but it still surprises me how irate people get when a TOTL they like, is sold.
> 
> I'll PM you a link to a vid where I discuss my choices.


Fair enough, no worries. I had no idea, I'm afraid I missed that fight 🥊🥊😄


----------



## Sajid Amit

karlheinz147 said:


> Fair enough, no worries. I had no idea, I'm afraid I missed that fight 🥊🥊😄


Lol.


----------



## sloomingbla (Jun 8, 2022)

So, one thing I'll say is the replacement o rings I bought keep snapping... I've gone through probably 4 pairs in the past few months.

I bought a regular nitrile rubber set previously, gonna try an "HNBR" set to see if it's a bit more durable.. don't really know much about the different materials

Anyone know the exact type of o-rings the 1266 comes with originally?


----------



## paradoxper

sloomingbla said:


> So, one thing I'll say is the replacement o rings I bought keep snapping... I've gone through probably 4 pairs in the past few months.
> 
> I bought a regular nitrile rubber set previously, gonna try an "HNBR" set to see if it's a bit more durable.. don't really know much about the different materials
> 
> Anyone know the exact type of o-rings the 1266 comes with originally?


We are all definitely wondering what kind of defected noggin you are carrying.

Try out silicone.


----------



## jaxt4r

I am trying to diy some headphone cables but I have some problems. 
Does abyss sell the mini xlr head separately? If not, are they compatible with the normal 3-pin mini xlr?


----------



## slazhx

Yesterday, I went to the local dealer and tried 1266 again. But, this time I had watched the instruction videos on youtube about fitting and tuning before.

Now I realize how you guys appreciated the 1266 than HE6 in general. With the right fitting, the phones amazed me indeed. It is very fun and enjoy to listen like in a concert hall. The impact and punchiness are still behind HE6 OG, but the rests are so nice. Also, the build quality is like a lifetime lasting. 

Thank you for what you guided.

By the way, is there big sonic difference between original 1266 and the TC? The price gap between the two (used) is very big. 

@Sajid Amit @paradoxper @jjshin23


----------



## Sajid Amit (Jun 9, 2022)

arayasg said:


> Yesterday, I went to the local dealer and tried 1266 again. But, this time I had watched the instruction videos on youtube about fitting and tuning before.
> 
> Now I realize how you guys appreciated the 1266 than HE6 in general. With the right fitting, the phones amazed me indeed. It is very fun and enjoy to listen like in a concert hall. The impact and punchiness are still behind HE6 OG, but the rests are so nice. Also, the build quality is like a lifetime lasting.
> 
> ...


TC = King.

OG is actually a steal for the used prices they go for. Still technically impressive and has this relative lushness to it, that is rather nice.

I have considered owning both, but am happy with TC for now.


----------



## Ruddy1

jaxt4r said:


> I am trying to diy some headphone cables but I have some problems.
> Does abyss sell the mini xlr head separately? If not, are they compatible with the normal 3-pin mini xlr?


compatible


----------



## sloomingbla

paradoxper said:


> We are all definitely wondering what kind of defected noggin you are carrying.
> 
> Try out silicone.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07GSKKHQM?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

Weren’t you the one who posted this link? Lmao. Could be wrong though.

Ordered some silicone ones thank you 🙏


----------



## jaxt4r

Ruddy1 said:


> compatible


Thanks mate


----------



## cangle

sloomingbla said:


> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07GSKKHQM?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
> 
> Weren’t you the one who posted this link? Lmao. Could be wrong though.
> 
> Ordered some silicone ones thank you 🙏


I bought that kit as well but unfortunately those o-rings are not very durable and snap quite easily. However it's a good way to figure out what size you prefer.

I've had good luck with Buna-N type o-rings (that's just the material they are made from). And I think I am on size 215 now. The ones I've got are all 1-1/16" ID, 1-5/16" OD and 1/8" width. I've been using an o-ring of that type for probably close to 6 months now and it hasn't snapped yet. If you are in the US there's an Amazon seller called Mr O-Ring who I've ordered all the o-rings from so far.


----------



## paradoxper (Jun 9, 2022)

sloomingbla said:


> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07GSKKHQM?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
> 
> Weren’t you the one who posted this link? Lmao. Could be wrong though.
> 
> Ordered some silicone ones thank you 🙏


A few of the big sets have been shared. There is nothing particular about Nitrile. The HNBR has more resistance more applicable to other industry.
As well, the thing is Buna has a higher tensile strength than silicone but it's quite odd you've wore out so many in such a short period.


----------



## sloomingbla (Jun 9, 2022)

I could be using the wrong thickness perhaps - generally speaking I prefer tighter o rings than not, the headband tends to start sagging and hitting the top of the headphones if I use the larger sizes.

The rings I have though seem to be particularly poor quality - if I stretch them out the slightest bit they seem to stay stretched permanently, and they eventually just snap while sitting on my head. They've even just snapped while the headphones were laying on the table.

I also tend to wear the headphones a bit more forward on my head so that the cup falls forward and sits more comfortably, which likely stresses the headband a bit more.

It isn't anything that I feel normal, quality rubber should be snapping from though.

EDIT - I've ordered like 5 packs of different o-rings of different materials to try, I'll let you guys know which pack I prefer the most, lol.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

Stock o-rings are polyurethane #213 durometer 70, 0.921" ID x 1.2" OD, 0.139" thick, move to #214 or #215 for longer length. 
Metric stock size M1.5X23.5 (23.5 mm being the ID, move to M1.5x25 or M1.5x26.5 for longer length.

Buna N material will work ok but is less reliable.


----------



## sloomingbla (Jun 10, 2022)

Funny I just made a post about general satisfaction, and while true I still have an incredible curiosity for what else is in store 

So I’ve ordered myself a SC cable! Will post my comparison in sound when received - although really, this is  less about sound quality and more about having the "whole package" so to speak.

Also went the 6" route as the current 4" cable I have is a bit too short for me.


----------



## number1sixerfan

sloomingbla said:


> Funny I just made a post about general satisfaction, and while true I still have an incredible curiosity for what else is in store
> 
> So I’ve ordered myself a SC cable! Will post my comparison in sound when received - although really, this is  less about sound quality and more about having the "whole package" so to speak.
> 
> Also went the 6" route as the current 4" cable I have is a bit too short for me.



The SC cable is an excellent addition. I'll be giving up the one I have on loan pretty soon and I'm dreading it.


----------



## sloomingbla

I actually wanted to sorta rewrite my previous post about getting the super conductor - not that it matters much to anyone else, I’m sure. Lol. Felt it was worded a bit poorly.

Basically, I’m buying the superconductor cable out of pure respect for the abyss team. I’m sure it will sound fantastic, but my current setup is already far beyond any standard I’ve set.. these are a work of art, and with every felt plucking of a note I can truly feel the love that went into them.

Getting the chance to finish the set is simply an opportunity I can’t pass up


----------



## jaxt4r

Mine just came in a week ago. After some run in, I am more than happy with it. However I do find the treble a little honky, lack of density which I value very much. Do you guys have any cable suggestions to fine tune the treble? 

Oh btw, is Abyss not including the wooden box anymore. I’ve seen that is included when I am watching review on youtube.


----------



## DJJEZ

I Recently got a WA33 JPS elite and The synergy between 1266TC and the WA33 is so awesome. I listen to a ton of rock/metal and this is the best ive heard the 1266TC


----------



## slazhx

DJJEZ said:


> I Recently got a WA33 JPS elite and The synergy between 1266TC and the WA33 is so awesome. I listen to a ton of rock/metal and this is the best ive heard the 1266TC



What is your most favorite/matching amp (and/or preamp, speaker amp) for TC with rock/metal?


----------



## sloomingbla (Jun 13, 2022)

DJJEZ said:


> I Recently got a WA33 JPS elite and The synergy between 1266TC and the WA33 is so awesome. I listen to a ton of rock/metal and this is the best ive heard the 1266TC


*drooling*

Would love to hear how the amp sounds in terms of warmth, realism, and bass if you could? That amp is basically my end game whenever I get rich


----------



## paradoxper

sure to be midnight soon


----------



## leftside

An OTL amp driving the Abyss extremely well?!  Surely not… but indeed this is the case.

This custom OTL amp with separate power supply (with Lundahl power transformers), 6 Tungsol 5998 power tubes and 2 Philips 6N7G does an admirable job. Adding more power tubes (it can take 2-6) to the amp lowers the output impedance sufficiently even for the Abyss. 6 watts of power.

The covers on the rear are covering large Clarity Caps.

Built by one of the custom builders on here - 1101 Audio. I originally had it built for the LCD4, but it also performs very well with the Abyss. I find it is slightly warmer than my SET based Glenn C3g/300B and 1101 Audio 6J5/KT66 headphone amps.


----------



## ufospls2

leftside said:


> An OTL amp driving the Abyss extremely well?!  Surely not… but indeed this is the case.
> 
> This custom OTL amp with separate power supply (with Lundahl power transformers), 6 Tungsol 5998 power tubes and 2 Philips 6N7G does an admirable job. Adding more power tubes (it can take 2-6) to the amp lowers the output impedance sufficiently even for the Abyss. 6 watts of power.
> 
> ...


Looks great dude, glad you are enjoying it


----------



## sloomingbla

The superconductor has arrived..

Gonna need a couple of days to fully get used to/figure out how to properly articulate the changes, but off of the top of my head I can say it's a very noticeable difference... A lot more than I was expecting, really. And in a very, very good way.


----------



## DJJEZ

sloomingbla said:


> The superconductor has arrived..
> 
> Gonna need a couple of days to fully get used to/figure out how to properly articulate the changes, but off of the top of my head I can say it's a very noticeable difference... A lot more than I was expecting, really. And in a very, very good way.


It really is a very nice difference. Enjoy man


----------



## jlbrach

I have been listening to my sr1a for the past few days with the convolution filter...last night I decided to change it up and listen to the TC...unbeknownst to me I had forgotten to turn the filter off in my roon setting and for a while I couldnt understand why the TC sounded so bad...the bass was way too boomy and the volume seemed restrained...I kept looking at connections etc until it dawned on me that I had left the filter on...the more stuff you add the more chance for confusion lol


----------



## Ciggavelli

I've really like the new Suppression album with the TCs.  It's some good metal 🤘

https://tidal.com/browse/album/228479466

(I'd share the Roon link, but Roon is acting up)


----------



## Sajid Amit (Jun 15, 2022)

What is the recommended burn-in for this cable?






It's brand new, and its present state, it's good but _not as good_ as the high purity silver cable I got made from a custom builder last year.






The problems I am facing with the Superconductor cable are:

(1) My TC has more clarity and resolution on my custom silver cable

(2) On the SC, my TC sounds a bit shrill (relatively speaking) in the lower treble

(3) It's missing some punch and slam! This is the part that is most concerning, lol.

(4) SS is a bit narrower (but still better than most headphones, it's a TC after all).

In terms of immediate improvements, female vocals have improved perceptibly, and perhaps vocals in general, so kudos to Abyss for that.

But I don't want to be cable rolling frequently since I use the TC for rock and metal.

Hope the overall presentation improves with burn-in.

@Abyss Headphones


----------



## paradoxper

Listening to Director's Garage today and he's come around to loving them, and like many of us, concluding it renders his other phones outclassed. Pretty cool considering his initial experience wasn't great. Ferrum stack seemed to be the source of his revelation.

I think I'm going to send him a pair of Western Electric 300B.


----------



## DJJEZ

Sajid Amit said:


> What is the recommended burn-in for this cable?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pretty sure abyss recommends 100 hours


----------



## Sajid Amit

paradoxper said:


> Listening to Director's Garage today and he's come around to loving them, and like many of us, concluding it renders his other phones outclassed. Pretty cool considering his initial experience wasn't great. Ferrum stack seemed to be the source of his revelation.
> 
> I think I'm going to send him a pair of Western Electric 300B.


Lol. Good for him. He’s a good guy.

The Ferrum stack didn’t work for me at all with the TC. Prob the main reason why I didn’t keep it. 

Have opened up comms with Sasa, as per your insistence @paradoxper.


----------



## paradoxper

Sajid Amit said:


> Lol. Good for him. He’s a good guy.
> 
> The Ferrum stack didn’t work for me at all with the TC. Prob the main reason why I didn’t keep it.
> 
> Have opened up comms with Sasa, as per your insistence @paradoxper.


It's always interesting how varied the experience can be. I also didn't favor the Ferrum comparatively. 

Great you linked up direct. That's exciting. DHT DHT DHT !!!


----------



## DJJEZ

Sajid Amit said:


> Lol. Good for him. He’s a good guy.
> 
> *The Ferrum stack didn’t work for me at all with the TC. Prob the main reason why I didn’t keep it.*
> 
> Have opened up comms with Sasa, as per your insistence @paradoxper.


Same. Its kinda dry and fatiguing and its soundstage width was average. I wanted more smoothness.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> I've really like the new Suppression album with the TCs.  It's some good metal 🤘
> 
> https://tidal.com/browse/album/228479466
> 
> (I'd share the Roon link, but Roon is acting up)


Really great fretless.


----------



## Sajid Amit

DJJEZ said:


> Same. Its kinda dry and fatiguing and its soundstage width was average. I wanted more smoothness.


+1


----------



## Roasty

interesting. I actually quite like the ferrum stack with the TC. xlr outs from May/Wavelight, medium gain on Oor. using Mitch filters. really lush sound and pleasant highs, with no lack of bass impact. it is, however, one or two steps down from my speaker amp combo, but given the price point I'd say that's understandable. Nice for a quick and dirty listen, not having to wait for my tube components to warm up.


----------



## paradoxper

A symphonic force


----------



## ufospls2

paradoxper said:


> A symphonic force



"Good Morning Kaia" from that album remains one of my favourite songs of all time, since the first time I heard it back in 2006.


----------



## paradoxper

ufospls2 said:


> "Good Morning Kaia" from that album remains one of my favourite songs of all time, since the first time I heard it back in 2006.


Great song. The whole album is fantastic especially the development of the later half. I recall being glued to Morceau Subrosa with my STAX for some time.

cue it up!


----------



## sloomingbla

Well, I gotta say - I might not have that fancy custom silver cable to compare it to, but compared to the stock cable the SC is tremendous.

With my limited experience cable swapping in the past, generally speaking I haven't noticed much more than a tonality shift. I noticed more clarity/better staging on the custom cable I got with my tc (Supposedly was bought for 1k$ usd, not sure of anything else), but it also sounded artificial/grainy, and generally I could tell that the "extra clarity" I was experiencing in this case was actually just boosted upper treble. It would sound better on a quick listen, but after extended use I felt something lacking and off.

After enough time, I went back to stock because of said cons.

With the SC though? No way in hell I'm going back to stock.

Keep in mind this is only after a couple of days of listening.. but most of the changes were immediately apparent regardless. Better fidelity/detail across the board, smoother treble, a more liquid and musical sound, much more precise imaging (as if the previous image was blurry, and I put on some glasses), and a lot more meat to the bass and vocals.

Everything feels more grounded, weighty, and natural.. even the treble feels like it has some increased levels of physicality. The blackness of the background has improved, and generally speaking everything that could be improved in some way, has. (to my taste, at least). 

The best metaphor I can come up with for the change in physicality - is that although the stock cable sounded fantastic, it's as if the sound itself was transparent. The bass was visceral, for sure - but it's as if the image of the bass has turned completely opaque with the SC. As if I've found the thing I always search for when cranking the volume up (but haven't ever found). 

I don't feel like it's an overstatement to say that this jump in fidelity feels of a similar caliber as a jump to a better amp - this is no simple tonality shift. 

Now, as a disclaimer, I am incredibly passionate about this stuff, and a bit of an intense guy, and so a large jump for me might be larger than for another. But I'm being honest to my experience, I swear!


----------



## orrm

Sajid Amit said:


> The Ferrum stack didn’t work for me at all with the TC. Prob the main reason why I didn’t keep it.



So what are you using to drive your TC?


----------



## briantrinh86

sloomingbla said:


> Well, I gotta say - I might not have that fancy custom silver cable to compare it to, but compared to the stock cable the SC is tremendous.
> 
> With my limited experience cable swapping in the past, generally speaking I haven't noticed much more than a tonality shift. I noticed more clarity/better staging on the custom cable I got with my tc (Supposedly was bought for 1k$ usd, not sure of anything else), but it also sounded artificial/grainy, and generally I could tell that the "extra clarity" I was experiencing in this case was actually just boosted upper treble. It would sound better on a quick listen, but after extended use I felt something lacking and off.
> 
> ...


i got the same emotion with the sc came yesterday. 
@Sajid Amit . it's damn true. female vocals are noticeably much better
With the sc vocal is more sweetness and engaging, intruments seperation and blacker background than stock
yep there is no way in hell i will return to stock.


----------



## Sajid Amit

briantrinh86 said:


> i got the same emotion with the sc came yesterday.
> @Sajid Amit . it's damn true. female vocals are noticeably much better
> With the sc vocal is more sweetness and engaging, intruments seperation and blacker background than stock
> yep there is no way in hell i will return to stock.


Yeah. Such difference cables can make.


----------



## tubelvr1

Anyone know how long JPS normally takes for repair? I’ve sent in my TC for sleepy driver issue (under warranty) on the left side issue and it’s been 3 weeks already. Called Joe and he’s saying it’s still not repaired.


----------



## dudeX

tubelvr1 said:


> Anyone know how long JPS normally takes for repair? I’ve sent in my TC for sleepy driver issue (under warranty) on the left side issue and it’s been 3 weeks already. Called Joe and he’s saying it’s still not repaired.


Typical turn around time is 2 months from what I've seen posted.


----------



## vonBaron

Anyone know is 1266 TC drivers are capable to go 90db for long time without pause.


----------



## hke3g2006

I am wondering if it is worth to upgrade my 1266 OG to a TC......


----------



## jlbrach

if you have the cash then yes...I went from the OG to the Phi and to the TC and each time my wallet was lighter but I appreciated the improvement


----------



## slazhx

jlbrach said:


> if you have the cash then yes...I went from the OG to the Phi and to the TC and each time my wallet was lighter but I appreciated the improvement



Would you mind to elaborate that in terms of sonic? I am making decision to buy used OG, phi or TC soon.


----------



## piksnz

New to the TC. Currently using Ferrum stack for Susvara and using the same for the TC. 
Saw few comments on this thread that it is dry. In the similar price range as ferrum stack what amp do you recommend?


----------



## jlbrach

arayasg said:


> Would you mind to elaborate that in terms of sonic? I am making decision to buy used OG, phi or TC soon.


others have given pretty detailed comparisons..IMHO the TC does pretty much everything better than the OG although some still like the sound signature of the OG


----------



## ufospls2

arayasg said:


> Would you mind to elaborate that in terms of sonic? I am making decision to buy used OG, phi or TC soon.


I talked a bit about the differences in my review (having owned all three.) Hope this might help a little bit. 

https://headphonesnstuff.blog/2021/10/16/abyss-headphones-ab1266-phi-tc-full-review/


----------



## F208Frank (Jun 19, 2022)

Deleted.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Jun 21, 2022)

Hello TC-philes,

I just wanted to report back that as my superconductor cable burns in, the TC has become quite an all-rounder of a headphone.

I was very nit-picky about how the TC did vocals but damn, it does vocals rather well now, thanks to greater midrange weight and more realistic timbre on the SC.

The lower treble has evened out as well and the presentation has become rather non-fatiguing compared to any other cable I have tried with the TC.

The SC is a real and meaningful addition to the TC. I am considering doing a video review for cable-believers and the open-minded, lol.


----------



## Roasty

glad u r enjoying the SC cable, @sajid. Once they've settled down, it's hard to connect anything else to the TC. 

1266 TC Phi + SC cable with a good system chain, a well and proper fit, and Mitch filters is pretty much smiles all day long. I find the filters the icing on the cake; subtle yet not so subtle changes.


----------



## DJJEZ

Sajid Amit said:


> Hello TC-philes,
> 
> I just wanted to report back that as my superconductor cable burns in, the TC has become quite an all-rounder of a headphone.
> 
> ...


Excellent to hear, please do a video review for it


----------



## ken6217

Sajid Amit said:


> Hello TC-philes,
> 
> I just wanted to report back that as my superconductor cable burns in, the TC has become quite an all-rounder of a headphone.
> 
> ...


Well if you want to go all out, i’m selling my Superconductor headphone to banana plug speaker adapter cable. I think Joe only made 5 of these. No home should be without it. 😃


----------



## Sajid Amit

ken6217 said:


> Well if you want to go all out, i’m selling my Superconductor headphone to banana plug speaker adapter cable. I think Joe only made 5 of these. No home should be without it. 😃


Tempting for sure. Feel free to PM me your price.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> Well if you want to go all out, i’m selling my Superconductor headphone to banana plug speaker adapter cable. I think Joe only made 5 of these. No home should be without it. 😃


RIP


----------



## PhazeCrive

Do the cable review!


----------



## Ciggavelli

Roasty said:


> glad u r enjoying the SC cable, @sajid. Once they've settled down, it's hard to connect anything else to the TC.
> 
> 1266 TC Phi + SC cable with a good system chain, a well and proper fit, and Mitch filters is pretty much smiles all day long. I find the filters the icing on the cake; subtle yet not so subtle changes.


I listened to the TCs without Mitch’s filters for a couple of days and then went back to the filters today, and I must say the change was more apparent than I had remembered.  Before, I thought it was a good change, but subtle. Now I realize it’s a bit more than subtle. It really is the icing on the cake.

I kind of want to buy his filters for all my headphones (if they existed). His SR1a filters are amazing of course. People seem to like his LCD-5 filters too. I wonder what some Susvara filters would sound like (though I’m not sure where the improvements would be)


----------



## orrm

How do I get my hands on those filters and can they work from a Mac? Roon? Bluesound Node?


----------



## jk6661

orrm said:


> How do I get my hands on those filters and can they work from a Mac? Roon? Bluesound Node?


I have a Node and Roon. They work great.


----------



## Roasty

Ciggavelli said:


> I listened to the TCs without Mitch’s filters for a couple of days and then went back to the filters today, and I must say the change was more apparent than I had remembered.  Before, I thought it was a good change, but subtle. Now I realize it’s a bit more than subtle. It really is the icing on the cake.
> 
> I kind of want to buy his filters for all my headphones (if they existed). His SR1a filters are amazing of course. People seem to like his LCD-5 filters too. I wonder what some Susvara filters would sound like (though I’m not sure where the improvements would be)



iirc think someone did send his Susvara in to Mitch to make the filters (?). i quite liked the Raal filters but some of them have really big -dB preamp gain and the volume knob has to go pretty high to compensate. 

which TC filter are u using? I'm on the bass without top extension (filter 2 of 3).

I'm actually wondering if he did the filters up using the stock cable or the SC cable. did he mention? I can't remember.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Roasty said:


> iirc think someone did send his Susvara in to Mitch to make the filters (?). i quite liked the Raal filters but some of them have really big -dB preamp gain and the volume knob has to go pretty high to compensate.
> 
> which TC filter are u using? I'm on the bass without top extension (filter 2 of 3).
> 
> I'm actually wondering if he did the filters up using the stock cable or the SC cable. did he mention? I can't remember.


I use filter 3. It turns out I like a lot of bass and bright treble. I’m not sure what cable he used. I don’t remember reading anything about that.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jun 21, 2022)

orrm said:


> How do I get my hands on those filters and can they work from a Mac? Roon? Bluesound Node?


You email Mitch: mitch@accuratesound.ca

Warning, they are expensive.  You can read about them here:

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...b1266-φ-tc-headphones-to-another-level-r1091/


----------



## orrm

So I'm returning my WA33 but don't really want to sell my 1266 because of that. Any recommendations for an amp with great synergy with the TC? I'll keep my Enleum but I don't feel that's a perfect match.


----------



## vonBaron

Niimbus


----------



## llamaluv

orrm said:


> So I'm returning my WA33 but don't really want to sell my 1266 because of that. Any recommendations for an amp with great synergy with the TC? I'll keep my Enleum but I don't feel that's a perfect match.



I think describing what you like and don't like about the WA33 with the TC would be useful (aside from the hum issue you posted about previously, I guess).

If you're looking for a meatier sound with a filled-in midrange, I think the Cayin HA-300 is worth considering. Especially if you don't care for the TC on the Enleum a whole lot, or on solid state i general (I never cared for the TC on the Bakoon 13R, myself).

The HA-300 is my favorite amp for the TC, at least given my limited experiences with different amps with the TC.


----------



## jlbrach

orrm said:


> So I'm returning my WA33 but don't really want to sell my 1266 because of that. Any recommendations for an amp with great synergy with the TC? I'll keep my Enleum but I don't feel that's a perfect match.


formula s/powerman...


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> formula s/powerman...


A blind man could have seen that coming.


----------



## qboogie

ken6217 said:


> A blind man could have seen that coming.


Hahaha. When I was researching that amp prior to buying it, I did a search for "Powerman" and literally 80% of the matches were by @jlbrach . He is a big fan


----------



## ken6217

qboogie said:


> Hahaha. When I was researching that amp prior to buying it, I did a search for "Powerman" and literally 80% of the matches were by @jlbrach . He is a big fan


So your saying he’s a shill? 😂


----------



## jlbrach

I am no shill I have several amps and have owned several others and the formula s combo is the best I have heard with the TC if you seek solid state...


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> I am no shill I have several amps and have owned several others and the formula s combo is the best I have heard with the TC if you seek solid state...


I’m just joking with you


----------



## Dramaticfanatic (Jun 23, 2022)

.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Jun 23, 2022)

jlbrach said:


> formula s/powerman...





orrm said:


> So I'm returning my WA33 but don't really want to sell my 1266 because of that. Any recommendations for an amp with great synergy with the TC? I'll keep my Enleum but I don't feel that's a perfect match.


Guys, did you even watch Abyss’s YouTube channel? dCS Lina would be the go to now for 1266 TC as a solid state option. Formula power man is outdated. Boys at Abyss love it.

1266TC with Super Conductor and dCS Lina stacks, I guess I would need to sell my car and my house for that die hard combo.


----------



## vonBaron

Dude, you don't know what an ad is?


----------



## Frankie D

Gavin C4 said:


> Guys, did you even watch Abyss’s YouTube channel? dCS Lina would be the go to now for 1266 TC as a solid state option. Formula power man is outdated. Boys at Abyss love it.
> 
> 1266TC with Super Conductor and dCS Lina stacks, I guess I would need to sell my car and my house for that die hard combo.


I would love to have the Lina stack, but not sold that it is the best.  The Dac is being reviewed as around the Bartok level by users. Let’s see how it is viewed as more users get them.  An interesting point is Abyss never mentioned the Woo Audio WA33 when discussing the Lina amp.  In its base form it was terrific with the 1266, and it would cost less.  Time will tell.


----------



## xcluded

Any friend tried the TC with Benchmark products ?
Benchmark Dac3 + HPA4 

Does TC works well in such combination ?


----------



## Gavin C4

Frankie D said:


> I would love to have the Lina stack, but not sold that it is the best.  The Dac is being reviewed as around the Bartok level by users. Let’s see how it is viewed as more users get them.  An interesting point is Abyss never mentioned the Woo Audio WA33 when discussing the Lina amp.  In its base form it was terrific with the 1266, and it would cost less.  Time will tell.



Tube and Solid State lives in a different dimention. They are parallels univerise. So I dont think the Lina Amp would replace the WA 33. Unless a WA44 comes out.


----------



## ken6217 (Jun 23, 2022)

I’m not saying the Lina stack is great or not great, but I have to tried many headphones, amps, DAC’s, and you’re still limited by one major thing: headphones. I don’t care how good the headphones are. speakers or another story.

The law of diminishing returns set in way before you hit that $30K.


----------



## DJJEZ

xcluded said:


> Any friend tried the TC with Benchmark products ?
> Benchmark Dac3 + HPA4
> 
> Does TC works well in such combination ?


I have owned the AHB2 and used 1266TC with it multiple times and was not a fan of the combo at all.

HPA4 I used to own as well but not tried with the 1266TC so can't comment on that. The topping A90 is superior imo.


----------



## Frankie D

Gavin C4 said:


> Tube and Solid State lives in a different dimention. They are parallels univerise. So I dont think the Lina Amp would replace the WA 33. Unless a WA44 comes out.


I disagree a bit.  For me, all amps can be compared.  There may be many reasons to prefer SS over tubes ( no tubes to wear out for one) and many reasons for tubes as well.  But for me, it is mostly sound quality,  and I do not care how the amp got there ( tube or SS ).  I do, however, also expect reliability and longevity.  If an amp is great but breaks often, it is not for me.  At the moment, the WA33 is one of the best amps I have heard.


----------



## paradoxper

Frankie D said:


> I disagree a bit.  For me, all amps can be compared.  There may be many reasons to prefer SS over tubes ( no tubes to wear out for one) and many reasons for tubes as well.  But for me, it is mostly sound quality,  and I do not care how the amp got there ( tube or SS ).  I do, however, also expect reliability and longevity.  If an amp is great but breaks often, it is not for me.  At the moment, the WA33 is one of the best amps I have heard.


In qualitative context, it's not a difference of tube and solid state, it's the difference of speaker tube amplification and tube headamp > solid state speaker amplification and solid state headamp. 

The Lina is a terrible example. Compare the WA33 to Accuphase E-380 (warmer solid state). Woo loses dramatically in general.


----------



## notofthisworld

paradoxper said:


> In qualitative context, it's not a difference of tube and solid state, it's the difference of speaker tube amplification and tube headamp > solid state speaker amplification and solid state headamp.
> 
> The Lina is a terrible example. Compare the WA33 to Accuphase E-380 (warmer solid state). Woo loses dramatically in general.


Excuse my ignorance on this.  Are you just using the headphone jack on the Accuphase integrated amp?


----------



## ufospls2

notofthisworld said:


> Excuse my ignorance on this.  Are you just using the headphone jack on the Accuphase integrated amp?


You could, but in the context of a harder to drive headphone, likely driven from the speaker taps on the rear via a banana to 4pin XLR adapter (or similar.)


----------



## Frankie D

paradoxper said:


> In qualitative context, it's not a difference of tube and solid state, it's the difference of speaker tube amplification and tube headamp > solid state speaker amplification and solid state headamp.
> 
> The Lina is a terrible example. Compare the WA33 to Accuphase E-380 (warmer solid state). Woo loses dramatically in general.


I have not heard the Accuphase recently.  When I was looking for amps for my 2-channel system I preferred the Viva Aurora to the Accuphase at that time. 

Some other folks are talking up the Welks Audio Amps with their tube pre.  Have you compared with them?


----------



## Sajid Amit (Jun 24, 2022)

I have a finding I wanted to share.

The *Holo May >  iFi Pro iCAN Signature > Superconductor cable > TC* is one of the most pleasurable chains I have heard with the TC, in terms of synergistic wonderfulness. It may well be one of the most pleasurable chains I have heard, period.







I know the iCAN is *midfi* and some of our friends may jump in here and say the Formula S and Powerman is head and shoulders above the iCAN because they have owned both and all that. But hear me out...I only wish to speak of synergy of a chain of which the iCAN is one part.

And when I speak of synergy, I mean _how well this chain fills in the gaps and relative weaknesses of the TC_, not whether it maximizes the *technical performance* of the TC.

So why do I say the Pro iCAN signature synergizes well with the TC?

1. First, the Pro iCAN Signature has a thicker presentation which won't work well with every headphone. I find that it compromises transparency, clarity and soundstage width in going for midrange thickness and fullness. However, because the TC is such a performer in terms of clarity, transparency and soundstage width, it benefits greatly from the iCAN's thickness without losing much in terms of clarity, transparency and width.

2. By thickening the TC midrange, the iCAN makes the TC sound relatively more organic and natural. Overall, the timbre appears to improve.

3. The bass impact, using a slight bass boost that the iCAN affords, does justice to the TC. I have heard the TC slam more on the Accuphase amps, but this is very close.

4. The iCAN is not the final word on resolution, but because the TC is so unabashedly resolving, you still get a very resolving presentation.

Next, by adding the superconductor cable in the chain, you get even more vocal organicness and forwardness and dare I say, some overall sweetness. I have talked about the SC cable in previous posts and will do a video review after my holidays in July.

And lastly, to speak of the Holo May and the TC:

The Holo May is of course a rather hyped DAC. Many proclaim it outperforms DACs at several times the price. I believe that to be true as well. The May, however, has detractors who claim it can sound dull with warmer leaning cans. While I do percieve certain weaknesses to the May including its lack of synergy with warmer leaning cans, it's just fantastic with the TC across a range of amps.

The May has some coloration no doubt, but the TC not only handles the coloration, but perhaps feeds off it. To be specific about the coloration, the May emphasizes organicness and naturalness. In terms of tonality, I percieve some midbass warmth on the May and the upper treble tends to be polite. All these traits work excellently with the TC.

Using the aforementioned chain, I can now honestly go through my entire Roon Library across every possible genre with the TC. I don't need a separate playlist for rock and metal for the TC. _Therein lies the strength of this chain._

In any case, thought I would share my thoughts on synergy, as that appears to be a big part of my hobby these days, lol.

And certainly worth a look for those of you on a budget and looking to get into the TC, although the entire chain isn't exactly cheap.


----------



## makan

Sajid Amit said:


> I have a finding I wanted to share.
> 
> The *Holo May >  iFi Pro iCAN Signature > Superconductor cable > TC* is one of the most pleasurable chains I have heard with the TC, in terms of synergistic wonderfulness. It may well be one of the most pleasurable chains I have heard, period.
> 
> ...


I am currently borrowing a TC, and it sounds just fine using a similar chain.  Yggy to ifi pro ican to SC cable....also sounds good via my broadway


----------



## orrm

@Sajid Amit
If you haven't you should absolutely try the Enleum Amp-23r instead of the ifi in that chain. It will do exactly all the things you described only better than the ifi. That's actually one of the reasons I'm not a huge fan of the TC on the Enleum because I prefer my TC experience to be more of what its original tuning is and keep the warmth and organicness to the Susvara.
But... that said... I did just buy yesterday a Rockna Wavedream to replace my Spring 3 and step one step closer to dry and detailed (over timbre and organic) to potentially enjoy both headphones with one chain with little compromises on each.

Regardless of all I said, happy for you you found a chain that works so well for you, that's an awesome feeling.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Jun 24, 2022)

Frankie D said:


> I have not heard the Accuphase recently.  When I was looking for amps for my 2-channel system I preferred the Viva Aurora to the Accuphase at that time.
> 
> Some other folks are talking up the Welks Audio Amps with their tube pre.  Have you compared with them?



It will come down to system matching. Matters as much if not more for 2-ch as you must already know.

@Sajid Amit


orrm said:


> If you haven't you should absolutely try the Enleum Amp-23r instead of the ifi in that chain. It will do exactly all the things you described only better than the ifi. That's actually one of the reasons I'm not a huge fan of the TC on the Enleum because I prefer my TC experience to be more of what its original tuning is and keep the warmth and organicness to the Susvara.
> But... that said... I did just buy yesterday a Rockna Wavedream to replace my Spring 3 and step one step closer to dry and detailed (over timbre and organic) to potentially enjoy both headphones with one chain with little compromises on each.
> 
> Regardless of all I said, happy for you you found a chain that works so well for you, that's an awesome feeling.


Thanks man. Happy for sure but also ordered the Zahl HM1 amplifier today. Such is the way of the phile, lol.

Rockna is on my list for the ZMF and if I ever buy back the Susvara. The May is not the source to have in a chain feeding the Susvara or ZMF, IMO, given my sonic goals. I think the DAC is a critical element and although I have a few on my desk right now, will probably keep the May and add a second more clinical DAC (with good dynamics, can’t live without them).

The 23R is fabulous. However, the 23R and the iCAN have slightly different sonic characteristics, technical performance notwithstanding. I find that the iCAN is thicker in the midrange and narrower-sounding than the 23R while the 23R is more smooth and flowing than the iCAN.

But the 23R is a better amp for most practical purposes, in terms of technical performance,


----------



## orrm (Jun 24, 2022)

Sajid Amit said:


> May is not the source to have in a chain feeding the Susvara or ZMF,


Took me a couple of months to get to a similar conclusion with the Spring 3. It worked well with my WA33 and 1266 but was a bit too much smoothness with the Enleum and Susvara. I can definitely see keeping two separate chains for both but for many reasons I'm trying to find the minimal number of components I need to own to be satisfied with both headphones, hence the attempt to change to Rockna soon.



Sajid Amit said:


> 23R and the iCAN have slightly different sonic characteristics


I owned both in different times so obviously can't really compare but to me, the ifi with xbass on tried to achieve similar things that my WA22->Oor/Hypsos did better and eventually Enleum did better than that (again, less components and simpler chain). Your ears may tell a different story which is part of what's fun and personal in this hobby - both what we hear and what we're looking for.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Jun 24, 2022)

orrm said:


> Took me a couple of months to get to a similar conclusion with the Spring 3. It worked well with my WA33 and 1266 but was a bit too much smoothness with the Enleum and Susvara. I can definitely see keeping two separate chains for both but for many reasons I'm trying to find the minimal number of components I need to own to be satisfied with both headphones, hence the attempt to change to Rockna soon.


Yup. Unless you have a neutral-leaning DAC like a Weiss, synergy may become more important.


orrm said:


> I owned both in different times so obviously can't really compare but to me, the ifi with xbass on tried to achieve similar things that my WA22->Oor/Hypsos did better and eventually Enleum did better than that (again, less components and simpler chain). Your ears may tell a different story which is part of what's fun and personal in this hobby - both what we hear and what we're looking for.


So I personally think all these components sound different from each other and have different sonic goals.

The Ferrum smoothens the lower treble and has good bass extension with the Utopia and partially with the Susvara. But it was lackluster with the TC. The Ferrum worked particularly well with cans that needed some lower treble taming.

The 23R sounded smooth and somewhat softer in transients which brings out the Susvara’s musical character and is great for vocals.

The iCAN is thicker and even congested sounding and while it has warmth from bass, it does nothing to the treble presentation of most headphones. In fact my Utopia treble sounds rougher on the iCAN than on most amps that are purportedly colder.

But yes in terms of technical performance, 23R probably beats the Ferrum and they both beat the iCAN.

Just my two cents.


----------



## paradoxper

Frankie D said:


> I have not heard the Accuphase recently.  When I was looking for amps for my 2-channel system I preferred the Viva Aurora to the Accuphase at that time.
> 
> Some other folks are talking up the Welks Audio Amps with their tube pre.  Have you compared with them?


I think Wells makes terrible gear and would never support them. Their Cipher DAC is insulting using all DIY components, selling for that much money.

Jeff Wells thinks you a moron just like Ray Samuels.


----------



## Frankie D

paradoxper said:


> I think Wells makes terrible gear and would never support them. Their Cipher DAC is insulting using all DIY components, selling for that much money.
> 
> Jeff Wells thinks you a moron just like Ray Samuels.


Wow!  Talk about receiving totally opposite opinions.  

Yes, the DIY stuff concerns me as well.  Tks.


----------



## jlbrach

Sajid Amit said:


> I have a finding I wanted to share.
> 
> The *Holo May >  iFi Pro iCAN Signature > Superconductor cable > TC* is one of the most pleasurable chains I have heard with the TC, in terms of synergistic wonderfulness. It may well be one of the most pleasurable chains I have heard, period.
> 
> ...


I used to own the ifi ican amp and thought for the money it was outstanding...plenty of power it even drove my susvara well and all in all an excellent product so I assume the signature would be even better so I am not surprised that you are pleased


----------



## jlbrach

Sajid Amit said:


> Yup. Unless you have a neutral-leaning DAC like a Weiss, synergy may become more important.
> 
> So I personally think all these components sound different from each other and have different sonic goals.
> 
> ...


interesting, I also think my 13r is better with my susvara than the TC...


----------



## ken6217

Frankie D said:


> Wow!  Talk about receiving totally opposite opinions.
> 
> Yes, the DIY stuff concerns me as well.  Tks.


It’s pretty much universal the opinion of the quality, or lack there of, of Wells audio by reviewers.


----------



## Ciggavelli

paradoxper said:


> I think Wells makes terrible gear and would never support them. Their Cipher DAC is insulting using all DIY components, selling for that much money.
> 
> Jeff Wells thinks you a moron just like Ray Samuels.


Wells also said in another thread that hifi consumers were greedy for trying to get discounts on expensive gear.


----------



## ken6217

Ciggavelli said:


> Wells also said in another thread that hifi consumers were greedy for trying to get discounts on expensive gear.


See that’s where the complaints arise from. He charges crazy amount of money for so-so components and make. Take a look at inside the original Headtrip  I guess people weren’t necessarily asking for discounts, rather just a fair price for what they were getting. 

The Headtrip hums, and his answer to that is to take the power supply and move it away with an umbilical cord so you don’t hear it.


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> Wells also said in another thread that hifi consumers were greedy for trying to get discounts on expensive gear.


did he really say that?..I remember meeting him at a canjam


----------



## ken6217

jlbrach said:


> did he really say that?..I remember meeting him at a canjam


Maybe he was having an identity crisis and what he meant to say was that some manufactures are greedy charging what they do.


----------



## Ciggavelli

jlbrach said:


> did he really say that?..I remember meeting him at a canjam


Yeah, he said customers were greedy for using online dealers to get a discount


----------



## Jon L

Anyone see this "Den-Fi" review of 1266 TC?  
"It fails at every basic metric a 'flagship' headphone should excel in."
https://den-fi.com/abyss-1266-tc-review/


----------



## Ciggavelli

Jon L said:


> Anyone see this "Den-Fi" review of 1266 TC?
> "It fails at every basic metric a 'flagship' headphone should excel in."
> https://den-fi.com/abyss-1266-tc-review/


Yeah, I read that earlier.  It reads like somebody is trying to make an extreme opinion to get views.  Unfortunately, that sort of thing works (as you and I read it, along with countless others due to it's extreme nature).

I don't get how people don't like the TCs.  It's like they are hearing completely different things from what we are hearing.  It's confusing, but what can you do?  Their loss 🤷‍♂️


----------



## SteveM324

I received my 8ft Superconductor cable today.  I talked Joe S. on the phone yesterday afternoon around 3pm, placed my order shortly after and the cable was delivered to my door at 11am this morning.  Joe even called me back after I ordered because he thought I made a mistake on the connector on the amp end and he was right!  Now that’s great service!  

I’ve been burning in the new cable about 10 hrs now, and it’s already sounding great.   For those of you that own this cable, about how many hours to reach full burn-in?  I’m already enjoying it so I’m not going to worry about it, just curious.


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> Yeah, I read that earlier.  It reads like somebody is trying to make an extreme opinion to get views.  Unfortunately, that sort of thing works (as you and I read it, along with countless others due to it's extreme nature).
> 
> I don't get how people don't like the TCs.  It's like they are hearing completely different things from what we are hearing.  It's confusing, but what can you do?  Their loss 🤷‍♂️


that review sounds like a guy who didnt listen to the TC or simply had an interest in getting attention...it is silly


----------



## Ciggavelli

This is a real interesting metal album


----------



## vonBaron

Im now testing T+A Solitaire P (and SE) and they are not 1266


----------



## jlbrach

the sol p is outstanding one of the very best IMHO BUT very little is the TC


----------



## Slim1970

vonBaron said:


> Im now testing T+A Solitaire P (and SE) and they are not 1266


No sir they are not. I have the Solitaire P's and it is a very, very good headphone.


----------



## listenerwww

Jon L said:


> Anyone see this "Den-Fi" review of 1266 TC?
> "It fails at every basic metric a 'flagship' headphone should excel in."
> https://den-fi.com/abyss-1266-tc-review/


The only review of this headphone I've seen that matches my impressions, tbh. 
Full disclosure, he's a friend and I've heard the exact unit he reviewed, and he's not fibbin. 
It's pretty bad, and IMO a poor value unless you're specifically looking for that exact kind of presentation. 
The upside with 1266 is it's somewhat speaker-like in it's presentation, but the downside is it's pretty unnatural sounding timbrally IMO.


----------



## rangerid (Jun 24, 2022)

I suspect his chain is the culprit


> The source chain mainly used was a Firstwatt F5 and Exogal Comet


Never even heard of those components but you certainly don't need speaker amps for TC. The talk is always how difficult Susvaras are to drive and amp dependent but my experience has been the TC is far more system picky if you don't like the default tuning, which let's be real is pretty awful. @Sajid Amit posted a great example of a chain earlier that will improve the weakness of the TC.

The fact he struggles to find any positives and can't place it above a Sundara for detail retrieval is laughable. Hard to take a reviewer that can't see the world class qualities of a TC seriously, even if it's not their cup of tea tonality wise.


----------



## vonBaron

Slim1970 said:


> No sir they are not. I have the Solitaire P's and it is a very, very good headphone.





jlbrach said:


> the sol p is outstanding one of the very best IMHO BUT very little is the TC


With my gear they are only "ok", treble have spikes and bass is too much for me, though they are pretty fast and have nice soundstage. 

I have HA200 loaned too (and series 200 cd/streamer but i must find place to put it lol), how the sound together?


----------



## listenerwww

rangerid said:


> I suspect his chain is the culprit
> 
> Never even heard of those components but you certainly don't need speaker amps for TC. The talk is always how difficult Susvaras are to drive and amp dependent but my experience has been the TC is far more system picky if you don't like the default tuning, which let's be real is pretty awful. @Sajid Amit posted a great example of a chain earlier that will improve the weakness of the TC.
> 
> The fact he struggles to find any positives and can't place it above a Sundara for detail retrieval is laughable. Hard to take a reviewer that can't see the world class qualities of a TC seriously, even if it's not their cup of tea tonality wise.


The Firstwatt F5 is a Nelson Pass speaker amp design, pretty neutral timbrally (but if I _had_ to say it leaned one way or another, it's a leaner amp).
The Exogal Comet is a FPGA DAC that leans _quite_ warm timbrally, but has solid textural resolve and dynamics as well. I think it'd be a fine choice for TC tbh, though I might've chosen an even warmer amp as well to perhaps tame more of what I perceive to be a metallic clanginess to 1266TC's presentation.

I actually agree with his assessment of the technical performance, and furthermore I think 1266TC has a tuning that's specifically hard to hear _past_ to get to how detailed it may be outside of just FR.

For me, unfortunately it was a losing battle no matter how I seated it: with the seal broken, the bass resonance occluded the bass and mids too much to have notable textural resolve, and when worn close to the head to minimize resonance/just have flat bass extension, I couldn't ignore the (imo) problematic amount of treble air, and weirdly tuned midrange. The excess of treble air seemed to be the only thing "detail-oriented" about it, but even then it wasn't detail in the way I usually understand it (though I concede definitions vary in that aspect).

Far be it from me to claim to be the end all be all here, but I didn't find it particularly revealing of nuance, contrast, or new information. If anything it's tonal quirks ended up doing the opposite and homogenizing the presentation to be kind of similar in coloration no matter what music I played.

Just my .02¢


----------



## orrm

listenerwww said:


> The Firstwatt F5 is a Nelson Pass speaker amp design, pretty neutral timbrally (but if I _had_ to say it leaned one way or another, it's a leaner amp).
> The Exogal Comet is a FPGA DAC that leans _quite_ warm timbrally, but has solid textural resolve and dynamics as well. I think it'd be a fine choice for TC tbh, though I might've chosen an even warmer amp as well to perhaps tame more of what I perceive to be a metallic clanginess to 1266TC's presentation.
> 
> I actually agree with his assessment of the technical performance, and furthermore I think 1266TC has a tuning that's specifically hard to hear _past_ to get to how detailed it may be outside of just FR.
> ...


Begs the question, what headphones do you prefer?

I'm still getting to learn my TC and am trying to figure out if I like its original tuning (mainly for rock and trance) or if some chain that changes it a bit is a better way forward (I don't expect it to be the Susvara as my favorite can and most used). I did enjoy it a lot with the Spring 3 to WA33 but I don't have any of those anymore.


----------



## listenerwww (Jun 25, 2022)

orrm said:


> Begs the question, what headphones do you prefer?
> 
> I'm still getting to learn my TC and am trying to figure out if I like its original tuning (mainly for rock and trance) or if some chain that changes it a bit is a better way forward (I don't expect it to be the Susvara as my favorite can and most used). I did enjoy it a lot with the Spring 3 to WA33 but I don't have any of those anymore.


I tend to index for good FR and dynamics. I can EQ something to get close to my ideal for the former, while it's harder to get the latter from EQing an 'EQ friendly' headphone.

I settled on HD800 because I find planars to be unnatural dynamically no matter what I do, and it works pretty well with EQ.

For rock and trance I'd likely look into an LCD-4 over a 1266 tbh, but that's just me. Easier to EQ, more normal fit/bass, more detailed (IMO) etc.

EDIT: In case yr curious about other things I like after having tried all of the oft discussed flagships and other stuff, it's mostly Senn's HD800, HD600, HD650, HD580 Precision, Aurorus Borealis and Australis, Focal headphones aside from Elegia/Elear, and Audeze LCD-4.


----------



## Frankie D

Jon L said:


> Anyone see this "Den-Fi" review of 1266 TC?
> "It fails at every basic metric a 'flagship' headphone should excel in."
> https://den-fi.com/abyss-1266-tc-review/


This sounds like click bait.  If not, then the way I hear the 1266 vs the way he does could not be further apart.  Another reviewer I simply do not trust.  

He also may not be adjusting them properly.  And I am not a person who says that based on “purchase justification” as I have heard them multiple times and are the best HP’s I have ever listened to along with the STAX 9000.  Along with the Sus and Utopia, these 4 are the top HP’s in my opinion.  To each his own.


----------



## Frankie D

listenerwww said:


> The only review of this headphone I've seen that matches my impressions, tbh.
> Full disclosure, he's a friend and I've heard the exact unit he reviewed, and he's not fibbin.
> It's pretty bad, and IMO a poor value unless you're specifically looking for that exact kind of presentation.
> The upside with 1266 is it's somewhat speaker-like in it's presentation, but the downside is it's pretty unnatural sounding timbrally IMO.


I have the opposite view.  For me their timbre is top notch.  Maybe the HP’s you have are damaged, or perhaps they were not fitted properly. They do require correct fitment  to shine which is different from most HP’s.  Everyone is a bit different though.


----------



## listenerwww

Frankie D said:


> I have the opposite view.  For me their timbre is top notch.  Maybe the HP’s you have are damaged, or perhaps they were not fitted properly. They do require correct fitment  to shine which is different from most HP’s.  Everyone is a bit different though.


They didn't seem damaged. The full range of frequencies were being reproduced, just with a weird balance (to my ear).

I think the critical question is then: _what does timbre mean to you?_

To me, timbre is the quality of something being "true to life" in the realm of tonal accuracy, ease of distinguishing instrument identity, as well as naturalness of decay. 
The 1266 is too metallic, too compressed (in the treble in particular), and too homogenous in it's metallic character imprinted on most things to be capable of portraying what i'd call "timbral dynamics" (the range of different types of instrument timbre) correctly or realistically. Again, just my 2 cents.


----------



## Abyss Headphones (Jun 25, 2022)

@listenerwww Taking an AB1266 and dropping it into a system assembled for a completely different headphone (or loudspeaker) won‘t work.

If you look back last few pages, or 100 pages before that, you’ll note how AB1266 owners can hear and fine tune a system down to crazy levels of resolution. System tuning is far more critical where the transducers are critical of the system.

Suggestions made in this thread are highly focused and should be considered. Unlike a rental car, these are people who own it, know it well, who take the time and effort to extract every nuance and share it with the world. This as opposed to a short assessment and on to the next one. Certainly different perspectives, with dramatically different results.


----------



## listenerwww (Jun 25, 2022)

I guess I just don’t know why a headphone that would be so unusable on anything other than a hyper-specific (and likely quite expensive) system would be a good or desirable thing. Such a mercurial headphone could in fact limit the options of the end user enough to make the hobby less fun to explore.

I remind everyone that you don’t need to own a headphone to understand it, at least through your own lens, and you don’t _need _to build a specific system to make a headphone “work” if its fundamental characteristics, unalterable by upstream gear (fit, frequency response) are not to your liking.


----------



## ken6217

listenerwww said:


> I guess I just don’t know why a headphone that would be so unusable on anything other than a hyper-specific (and likely quite expensive) system would be a good or desirable thing. Such a mercurial headphone could in fact limit the options of the end user enough to make the hobby less fun to explore.
> 
> I remind everyone that you don’t need to own a headphone to understand it, at least through your own lens, and you don’t _need _to build a specific system to make a headphone “work” if it’s fundamental characteristics, unalterable by upstream gear (fit, frequency response) are not to your liking.


You’re spot on. As the saying goes, The answer to everything is, follow the money.


----------



## PhazeCrive

Somehow, I hear Joe in my head saying, "well if you don't like the damn thing, don't buy it!" XDDDDD


----------



## llamaluv (Jun 25, 2022)

After a couple years with the TC, my summary when asked is that I think the TC is a weird and also interesting headphone, almost in equal measure. I tend to be pretty sympathetic to the various criticisms with regard to tonality and timbre.

Sometimes I think the headphone is more weird than interesting (ie, not worth listening to or keeping) and sometimes I think it's more interesting than weird.

I'm in the latter phase at the moment. Lately I've been listening with a Bricasti M3h using its headphone out. It gives me a renewed appreciation of the TC's resolution, and the imaging and separation is chef's kiss. The bass is satisfying and non-bloatey, which could be a pleasant surprise for some. This is with acoustic and orchestral stuff.


----------



## Frankie D (Jun 25, 2022)

listenerwww said:


> They didn't seem damaged. The full range of frequencies were being reproduced, just with a weird balance (to my ear).
> 
> I think the critical question is then: _what does timbre mean to you?_
> 
> ...


Timbre is tonal accuracy as you stated.  The most important part of a sound system in my experience.  I prefer my systems to sound real as in live music, or now as close to my 2-channel system as possible. My 2-channel system was created based on realism ( Rockport speakers, Viva Electronics, Basis Inspiration, etc).  This system is now my comparison point for anything else, including IEMs.  I unfortunately do not get out to concerts very often.  My point is though, that I have a consistent musical reference.  Many reviewers do not.  I believe they should if they wish to be a professional reviewer, this way they never stray too far away from real vs not.

That said, the 1266 is not metallic in any way. If you heard anything metallic, you and your friend need to look elsewhere for the problem.   Now, I have never heard the 1266 on anything less than a multi $K system.  And I fully realize it will not be the favorite of everyone.  But it is too good to flat out hate.  This is why I think there is something wrong with the review and your take on it.  But as always, it is your opinion and there are many other HP’s to get you to your preferred sound.

I personally feel the Solitaire P which others love is over hyped and did not impress me when I heard it and compared it to the Utopia.   But I did not find it metallic or hate it.  If I owned it, I would probably keep it while still looking for my preferred sound.  It is still a good HP.  We are all a bit different. 

And it is okay to hear your opposing view point.  Enjoy!


----------



## ken6217 (Jun 25, 2022)

Frankie D said:


> Timbre is tonal accuracy as you stated.  The most important part of a sound system in my experience.  I prefer my systems to sound real as in live music, or now as close to my 2-channel system as possible. My 2-channel system was created based on realism ( Rockport speakers, Viva Electronics, Basis Inspiration, etc).  This system is now my comparison point for anything else, including IEMs.  I unfortunately do not get out to concerts very often.  My point is though, that I have a consistent musical reference.  Many reviewers do not.  I believe they should if they wish to be a professional reviewer, this way they never stray too far away from real vs not.
> 
> *That said, the 1266 is not metallic in any way. If you heard anything metallic, you and your friend need to look elsewhere for the problem.   Now, I have never heard the 1266 on anything less than a multi $K system*.  And I fully realize it will not be the favorite of everyone.  But it is too good to flat out hate.  This is why I think there is something wrong with the review and your take on it.  But as always, it is your opinion and there are many other HP’s to get you to your preferred sound.
> 
> ...


“*That said, the 1266 is not metallic in any way. If you heard anything metallic, you and your friend need to look elsewhere for the problem. Now, I have never heard the 1266 on anything less than a multi $K system.”*

There’s so much wrong with this that I can’t even begin with on where to start.


----------



## Frankie D

ken6217 said:


> “That said, the 1266 is not metallic in any way. If you heard anything metallic, you and your friend need to look elsewhere for the problem. Now, I have never heard the 1266 on anything less than a multi $K system.”
> 
> There’s so much wrong with this that I can’t even begin with on where to start.


In what way?


----------



## ken6217

Well you’re making a comment on the TC not sounding metallic, and at the same time talking about how you’ve only heard it on a multi dollar system. So how do you know that it doesn’t sound metallic on something less than your multi dollar system?


----------



## Frankie D

ken6217 said:


> Well you’re making a comment on the TC not sounding metallic, and at the same time talking about how you’ve only heard it on a multi dollar system. So how do you know that it doesn’t sound metallic on something less than your multi dollar system?


Well, I was stating that to leave that as one possible reason for it.  I also said to look elsewhere for the issue. If a speaker or HP is highly revealing, the bad will show up just as easily as the good.  I also did not want to type in a treatise.  I probably should have added to it.


----------



## Slim1970

vonBaron said:


> With my gear they are only "ok", treble have spikes and bass is too much for me, though they are pretty fast and have nice soundstage.
> 
> I have HA200 loaned too (and series 200 cd/streamer but i must find place to put it lol), how the sound together?


I haven't heard them on the T+A  gear. I missed an opportunity at CanJam to demo my set on the HA200 in the Roon booth. I have the Chord Dave/s HMS, which I think complements the Solitaire P's sound quite nicely. For me it's a great alternative headphone to my AB-1266 TC's


----------



## vonBaron (Jun 25, 2022)

Now i heard them with HA200 and must admit after set some options they are very good HP, definitely they have better synergy with dedicated HA200 than my own gear. Only complaint i have is sometimes harsh and dry high tones. I like them better than some other TOTL HP like LCD-5 or Stealth.


----------



## thecrow

Sajid Amit said:


> It will come down to system matching. Matters as much if not more for 2-ch as you must already know.
> 
> @Sajid Amit
> 
> ...


I’m just putting it out there Sajid……you talk about wanting a dac that is more clinical.

If you get a chance to demo the May KTE to compare to you L2 I would love to hear the comparisons.
I am thinking the KTE may get you closer to that……and wondering where an L2 might take me relative to my KTE.

The way you describe the L2 is not quite what I hear from the KTE. And what you are looking for as a second dac is not that far away from my KTE

I feel this is a comparison that has barely been looked at thoroughly with an equally top rated amp and headphones like the susvaras or 1266, etc


----------



## thecrow

Ciggavelli said:


> Yeah, he said customers were greedy for using online dealers to get a discount


Greedy is an interesting choice of words by him.

Might be worth the company looking at it’s distribution channels and their own policies.


----------



## Sajid Amit

On a different note, I had a few Abyss stands made by a local craftsman / hobbyist.

Let me know if anyone wants one. I only have a couple extra. Can ship overseas of course.


----------



## thecrow

I have not heard the abyss up to this point.
I was getting close to getting to one but with the price hike 6 months ago I found myself further away from being one of it’s potential customers.

From the comments above sometimes some headphones do need specific gear to shine and/or do their better work. At a lower price point than what is being discussed here I always found my hd800 is best with tubes and my Woo WA2 otl amp has easily beaten (for me of course) any other solid state amps that i have thrown at it, including my current niimbus amp.

So I certainly don’t dismiss the premise that gear matching may be more crucial than with other hps.

Whether people want to play in that sandpit is another question on top of that.

I certainly believe if you have a suitable tube amp the hd800 can be great value, otherwise (not a tube amp) maybe, maybe not..

Just my 2c and a passing light reflection


----------



## number1sixerfan (Jun 26, 2022)

Timbre nor tonality are really strong suits of the TC imo (and to be clear, it has plenty of other strengths and wow factors). And if they were, the SC cable wouldn't be as well received and popular as it is, as it drastically improves these two areas specifically (also, fyi for those looking, this made more significant improvement in tone/timbre than most other physical upgrades in my system). So I wouldn't at all dismiss someone's comments regarding them.

I've also personally found the TC to be more flexible with its performance, with strong performance in various chains, but that's just me. I don't think you need the absolute finest/most expensive setup to get a general idea of what it can do.. and plenty of budget chains have been championed in this thread. Certainly you can tinker beyond that deeper into the wallet to your preferred customizations or to a more optimized sound. But some of its qualities are distinct and some simply just may not like them either way. Further complicating this is fit, which can dramatically change the sound. I would double check this before blindly spending $ to improve sound.


----------



## dudeX

At CanJAM NYC, I tried the AB1266 with the WA-33. I also tried the Dianas. Didn't like the Dianas on the lower end Woo Audio stuff, but the AB-1266 even when not perfectly fitted, does sound like a high end headphone. It has all the technicalities I heard in Susvara, and the resolution it brings out in music is amazing, like when I heard distinct double tracking from a U2 song that the Dianas didn't bring my attention.
It is picky about power, it didn't sound that good on the WA-23 but Jack Wu did help me demo it on the WA-33, where it was very good. I did hear a bit of metallic sound in one Elvis track, but given it's a pre-60's recording, it could have been the source, so I don't know. But U2 "with or without you" sounded really good. Clean separation of instruments, feeling the shape of the room, and hearing the distinct voice tracks was pretty amazing. 
I still prefer the Susvara at this time, but I do want to get an AB-1266 sometime later as part of my collection because I like what it can do.


----------



## F208Frank (Jun 27, 2022)

I always found it fascinating that users on head fi generally having such descriptive words used with such ease and passion.

I've always liked the TC as I do tend to appreciate resolution. How I got back into the TC after having sold mine, was relistening to it at Can Jam and got re wowed. 

On the other hand, I sometimes miss my LCD4, out of the memories had with it. Sometimes each headphones bring its own set of memories as it was part of our overall journey.

Looking back is always fun once in a while, like how I used to have bit more money before messing with this hobby.


----------



## paradoxper

F208Frank said:


> I always found it fascinating that users on head fi generally having such descriptive words used with such ease and passion.
> 
> I've always liked the TC as I do tend to appreciate resolution. How I got back into the TC after having sold mine, was relistening to it at Can Jam and got re wowed.
> 
> ...


Add a tube stage with the TC and I don't think you concede or necessitate for an LCD-4.

It's only a little more money.

And it's only a lot more joy.


----------



## vonBaron (Jun 27, 2022)

Im almost blown away how TC sound with T+A HA200, great DAC/AMP!


----------



## mitchb

vonBaron said:


> Im almost blown away how TC sound with T+A HA200, great DAC/AMP!


It should sound good for $9500 US.


----------



## vonBaron

It is! If somone want hi-end DAC/AMP should check it.


----------



## mitchb

vonBaron said:


> It is! If somone want hi-end DAC/AMP should check it.


How does it compare to your Niimbus?


----------



## vonBaron (Jun 27, 2022)

I can't anserw to that becouse HA200 don't have analog XLR/RCA output.
But i miss nothing listen 1266 with HA200 vs my gear.


----------



## paradoxper

8 weeks of late night constants, productivity decline, safe to say endgame exists in 300B.


----------



## Sajid Amit

paradoxper said:


> 8 weeks of late night constants, productivity decline, safe to say endgame exists in 300B.


Stunning photo.


----------



## DJJEZ

paradoxper said:


> 8 weeks of late night constants, productivity decline, safe to say endgame exists in 300B.


What other 300B's have you tried before the elrog? The elrog's are on my wants list, currently using WE300B's.


----------



## Jon L

paradoxper said:


> 8 weeks of late night constants, productivity decline, safe to say endgame exists in 300B.


Very niceee... I never imagined Mick would still be making these things after all these years.  BTW, isn't that the Cabernet DHT 300B PREAMP?  What amp is that pushing into Abyss?


----------



## paradoxper (Jun 29, 2022)

DJJEZ said:


> What other 300B's have you tried before the elrog? The elrog's are on my wants list, currently using WE300B's.


I have/had rolled WE both old and current production, EML solid plates, Elrog moly, KR Ricardo some AVVT, ACME and Takatsuki.
Elrog blows them away in the finer details of treble extension, some dynamism and macro retrieval. It basically sounds rather un-300B and a bit more like the 45.


Jon L said:


> Very niceee... I never imagined Mick would still be making these things after all these years.  BTW, isn't that the Cabernet DHT 300B PREAMP?  What amp is that pushing into Abyss?


He's still kicking ass. The Primavera drives Valkyria, the DHT and CFA3 drives TC and uberamp drives SR1a.


----------



## DJJEZ

paradoxper said:


> I have/had rolled WE both old and current production, EML solid plates, Elrog moly, KR Ricardo some AVVT, ACME and Takatsuki.
> Elrog blows them away in the finer details of treble extension, some dynamism and macro retrieval. It basically sounds rather un-300B and a bit more like the 45.


Thanks. Will be trying these out soon.


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> 8 weeks of late night constants, productivity decline, safe to say endgame exists in 300B.


Is that the moly?


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Is that the moly?


That's an early production before they switched the base.


----------



## Nicolas Yance

Sajid Amit said:


> I have a finding I wanted to share.
> 
> The *Holo May >  iFi Pro iCAN Signature > Superconductor cable > TC* is one of the most pleasurable chains I have heard with the TC, in terms of synergistic wonderfulness. It may well be one of the most pleasurable chains I have heard, period.
> 
> ...


Try to get your hands on a pair of Western Electric jw2c51/396a for the iCan. I think it enhances everything you like about the pro iCan.


----------



## paradoxper

DJJEZ said:


> Thanks. Will be trying these out soon.


Awesome. Eager to hear what you think of them.


----------



## F208Frank

Tubes seem very intimidating, even for someone who has had some light experience with them before. The endless amounts of choices just truly give me anxiousness a bit, haha.


----------



## paradoxper

F208Frank said:


> Tubes seem very intimidating, even for someone who has had some light experience with them before. The endless amounts of choices just truly give me anxiousness a bit, haha.


I'll hold your hand.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> I'll hold your hand.


So beautiful. I just teared up.


----------



## UntilThen

paradoxper said:


> I'll hold your hand.



Wow what happened Paradoxper?


----------



## qboogie

UntilThen said:


> Wow what happened Paradoxper?


Psychotherapy haha


----------



## paradoxper

UntilThen said:


> Wow what happened Paradoxper?


The Summer of Love.


----------



## paradoxper

ken6217 said:


> So beautiful. I just teared up.


Always a sop.


----------



## ken6217

paradoxper said:


> Always a sop.


I’ve been called an SOB multiple times in my life, but I don’t know what an SOP is


----------



## MacedonianHero

SteveM324 said:


> I received my 8ft Superconductor cable today.  I talked Joe S. on the phone yesterday afternoon around 3pm, placed my order shortly after and the cable was delivered to my door at 11am this morning.  Joe even called me back after I ordered because he thought I made a mistake on the connector on the amp end and he was right!  Now that’s great service!
> 
> I’ve been burning in the new cable about 10 hrs now, and it’s already sounding great.   For those of you that own this cable, about how many hours to reach full burn-in?  I’m already enjoying it so I’m not going to worry about it, just curious.


Not surprised at all...Joe is definitely one of the good ones IMO.


----------



## paradoxper

Especially riveting with TC


----------



## Trance_Gott

paradoxper said:


> Especially riveting with TC


I heared the new Porcupine Tree Album already with 1266 TC amazing!

With CRBN to die for!
Raal is incoming...will be fun!


----------



## Ficcion2

If I were to sell off a list of components I own to fund a (used) 1266 and decent sources; what would you do?

I have:
2021 Diana Phi
Arya Stealth
LCD XC (2021)

XI Broadway amp
Matrix Element M DAC

Although im quite content with my set up, in theory what would you sell off to fund a 1266 set up?

I’ve seen some good prices in the classifieds for a 1266 TC but im kind of lost for affordable electronics that sound good enough for a satisfying chain.


----------



## PhazeCrive

I'd rid of the Arya and XC. Dphi is better than both of them combined, that's if you wanted a TC.

In theory you can also sell the electronics as well. I used to run my TC right out of my computer or phone with XLR > 6.3mm > 3.5mm adapters and it sounded just fine. Of course, upgraded later on as you can see, but that is a move for the very desperate. Should be fine selling off some headphones.


----------



## freedom01

I go by the simple logic.
We have only got one head.
Which headphone spends the most amount of time on my head gets to stay.

Unless of course, $ is no problem. You can have as many gears as you wish.

But for finite amount of resources and space, one TOTL headphone coupled with a good Dac and amp is enough.


----------



## PhazeCrive (Jul 11, 2022)

Is this guy trolling or what? Can't imagine a better headphone for jamming out than the TC

Or was he just saying how the HD800 didn't fall off (which my TC doesn't anyway).


----------



## sahmen

PhazeCrive said:


>






PhazeCrive said:


> Is this guy trolling or what? Can't imagine a better headphone for jamming out than the TC
> 
> Or was he just saying how the HD800 didn't fall off (which my TC doesn't anyway).


From the body and facial language on display throughout the proceedings, I'd argue that he is clowning (or so he thinks). Whether you find the act amusing, annoying, or simply boring would depend on your personal preferences, like nearly everything else on head-fi. 

Mileages may vary, of course.


----------



## PhazeCrive

I just can't imagine someone saying the HD800 of all things is better than the TC. XD
But more importantly...if you like it and it gives you these vibes then let no man criticize you.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

He must be on reddit. All users on Reddit hate Abyss, lol. Besides that, I cannot see him having a TC for comparison, so ... does he know what he is doing?


----------



## karlheinz147

3 subscribers, it must be legit.


----------



## hke3g2006

omg….they are really quite different…..🤏🫣


----------



## paradoxper

hke3g2006 said:


> omg….they are really quite different…..🤏🫣


Are you in your underwear?


----------



## ken6217




----------



## MWeston

hke3g2006 said:


> omg….they are really quite different…..🤏🫣


Did you just get the TC recently?  I really like the coating on the new one compared to the old one.  The OG's shinniness doesn't look as professional.  If you are up for it, even if you don't find pants, I would love to hear your sound comparisons on the two.  Ha ha!


----------



## Ruddy1

I hope everyone can find their favorite 1266


----------



## Litlgi74

Trance_Gott said:


> I heared the new Porcupine Tree Album already with 1266 TC amazing!
> 
> With CRBN to die for!
> Raal is incoming...will be fun!


It's even better in Dolby Atmos (via Realiser A16) on the TC.


----------



## paradoxper

Audio Note 4300E > TC -  some of the cleanest neutral balance I've heard, this is really good synergy.


----------



## spacelion2077

After a year of listening to tc. My impression is that, the sound signature definitely goes along with its look, the mids sounds metallic and clear in a good way. It lacks the airiness of susvara and detail retrieving of 800s. The bass is punchy when you adjust the pad to 9 o'clock position even however it doesn't really live up to bass quality of d8k pro. What it does the best among all the headphones I own is its staging. With the right setup, it makes every recording sounding like recorded in a concert (I'm driving mine with pontus and soloist gt). It's my go to headphone for live recordings.


----------



## spacelion2077

PhazeCrive said:


> I just can't imagine someone saying the HD800 of all things is better than the TC. XD
> But more importantly...if you like it and it gives you these vibes then let no man criticize you.


Hd800s sound is a lot more in your face than tc. With crossfeed, sound is literally coming from every direction. Tc sounds like its coming from a distance and with more depth. I can argue HD800s has slightly better detail retrieval than TC. Imo, HD800s gives you the instant wow factor. But in no way, you can jam out to 800s. It's severely lacking with bass delivery


----------



## vcoheda

what is your overall take of the abyss to the d8000 pro. i have read a lot about the latter and it definitely looks like a quality headphone.


----------



## spacelion2077

vcoheda said:


> what is your overall take of the abyss to the d8000 pro. i have read a lot about the latter and it definitely looks like a quality headphone.


It has better detail retrieval than TC. The low end of bass bass hits very deep. What TC does better is its quantity of bass. It's simply bombastic and staging is far superior. The best way I can put it is d8k pro sounds like a listening in a intimate room with pitch black background, while Tc is listening to music in a concert hall.


----------



## spacelion2077 (Jul 19, 2022)

My setup from last year, it was better than the setup I'm having now. M19 and monoliths dac/amp are replaced. the overall sound didn't change a lot switching from m19 to soloist GT. Tc certainly excels in quantity over quality, that's not saying its quality is bad. It has its strengths and weaknesses just like every other cans I own.


----------



## vonBaron

D8000 better detali retrival? LOL
Lack of air? LOL x2


----------



## spacelion2077 (Jul 19, 2022)

vonBaron said:


> D8000 better detali retrival? LOL
> Lack of air? LOL x2


Yes to my ears. Susvara is airier. And d8k pro sounds crispier. I'm a current owner of them  Not saying susvara and d8k are better. These two cans just do these things better than tc to my ears.


----------



## Polygonhell (Jul 19, 2022)

vcoheda said:


> what is your overall take of the abyss to the d8000 pro. i have read a lot about the latter and it definitely looks like a quality headphone.



My 2c, the 1266 is the obviously better technical headphone with some caveats.

I think most people would say the 1266 is more resolving, and I'd probably agree.
The 1266 has more slam and bass presence, and is certainly more immediately impactful.
D8000Pro still has the best Bass texture and timbre of any headphone I have heard, and I currently own a 1266, Susvara, D8000Pro and Utopia.
The D8000Pro is also way easier to drive (not to say it's not picky in it's own way), but that means the selection of amps can be broader (sounds good on a DNA Stratus for example, where the 1266 does not), and that can be something of an equalizer.
I also find the treble on the 1266 to be somewhat compressed, it took me a long time to decide this is what I was hearing, and it's not a common take, it's most apparent in the sound of hi hats and the way they decay unnaturally to me, and I think it's also why a lot of people think it presents more resolution than say a Susvara, where as I hear it the reverse is true.

I rate my headphones
Susvara/MySphere 3.1 > Utopia (on a Stratus specifically) > 1266 > D8000Pro

But if I'm being honest and I could only keep one of D8000Pro and 1266, I might keep the D8000Pro, but again I don't think that would be a common take in this particular topic.
If my my tastes in music were different, or I didn't get started in hifi when there was no such thing as a hifi sub woofer, I might have a very different set of preferences.


----------



## vcoheda

thanks for the comments. the pro is high on my list for future purchases.


----------



## spacelion2077 (Jul 19, 2022)

I agree with you o


Polygonhell said:


> My 2c, the 1266 is the obviously better technical headphone with some caveats.
> 
> I think most people would say the 1266 is more resolving, and I'd probably agree.
> The 1266 has more slam and bass presence, and is certainly more immediately impactful.
> ...



I definitely agree with you on d8k when it comes to the texture of bass and 1266 has more slam. D8k pro is not just easy to drive. It can literally drive on anything even on your iphone. Although mileage differs on amps and personal preference.

Among the cans I own ( 800s, d8k pro, Tc, susvara) it's very hard for me to pick one that does all. 800s has great instrument separation and detail retrieval,  d8k has the best bass texture I heard, susvara is the the airiest and sweetest one but notoriously hard to drive, Tc to my ears has a very unique metallic sound and great staging. I hope in the future, there will be a flagship can combine some of these traits together.


----------



## Ruddy1

Unfortunately, HD800 is better than 1266, in every way
HD800 is always the most successful headset in my mind


----------



## DJJEZ (Jul 21, 2022)

Ruddy1 said:


> Unfortunately, HD800 is better than 1266, in every way
> HD800 is always the most successful headset in my mind


----------



## jlbrach

Ruddy1 said:


> Unfortunately, HD800 is better than 1266, in every way
> HD800 is always the most successful headset in my mind


well that is the final word then, I will sell my tc immediately


----------



## number1sixerfan (Jul 22, 2022)

Ruddy1 said:


> Unfortunately, HD800 is better than 1266, in every way
> HD800 is always the most successful headset in my mind



This certainly is provocative lol

HD800 and (s) certainly are a bargain for what they go for used.. but this to me only serves as a reminder that the TC is the only headphone I'm aware of that matches its technical, transparent mastery, while also besting most if not all in the aspects of visceral impact and liveliness. I have still yet to identify any other headphone that has mastered both aspects to the degree it has.


----------



## spacelion2077 (Jul 21, 2022)

I wouldn't say HD800 (S) is a better headphone. They sound pretty different. It does a few things (instrument separation, mid)  better than TC while TC does other things better (bass, soundstage, treble). HD800s is a reference headphone for studio, TC is for music enjoyment. The only thing I will HD800s the edge for is its design. We can argue which headphone sounds better, but we should have no problem deciding which head looks better and more comfortable.


----------



## paradoxper

Ruddy1 said:


> Unfortunately, HD800 is better than 1266, in every way
> HD800 is always the most successful headset in my mind


Yea, good luck with that.

Please consult with an audiologist.

Enjoy you.


----------



## linshu1992

I got a chance to do quick comparisons of 1266 TC on a few amp setups:





Last night I shared my Susvara impressions here. Tonight I gave 1266 TC a try. I found 1266 TC's tonality to not change much from chain to chain. The only noticeable difference in my quick comparisons is the energy level and slight difference in fullness of sound. I didn't notice change in timber or warmth across the setups, which is different from Susvara. I'm sure more careful, extended listening sessions will reveal more differences but I want to share quick impressions.

CFA3: Compared to WA33, everything is fuller, more coarse, and has this weight that you feel you can touch. There's more "air is moving around ears" moments even when the song doesn't call for deep bass. The rest of the sound signature is quite similar to WA33. I do notice CFA3 tends to make the female voice a little shouty in the upper range when volume gets high.

WA33: Sound is thinner, perhaps by 20%. Coming from CFA3, WA33 makes you want to keep increasing the volume until you find the sense of impact and tactility again, and it seems you can almost get there but then the volume is simply too loud for listening. WA33 sounds "thin and flat" is probably the first thing that comes to you when moving from CFA3. It feels like comparing headphones straight from a laptop vs a small amp.

WA33 pre-amp to AHB2: It's a great combination of both details and refinement (by WA33) and fullness and weight (AHB2). Compared to CFA3 alone, CFA3 is slightly less refined, and maybe with a little less energy. This combo has less shoutiness in the upper range. Overall I won't confidently say I can tell the setup blindly. I found myself look at the amp more often while I write this to know what I'm listening to.

WA33 pre-amp to CFA3: This gives a bit more energy than CFA3. The sound is even fuller and with more weight than CFA3 alone. The difference is kind of subtle, but you will feel the music is "in your face" more, without noticeable change of sound stage. It's just the notes are "thicker". It's quite enjoyable!

Overall, it does feel the pre-amp + speaker amp combo offers a little more energy and impact, but CFA3 really is quite impressive by its own. It gets you 90-95% the way there.


----------



## dude120

linshu1992 said:


> I got a chance to do quick comparisons of 1266 TC on a few amp setups:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oof that picture is beautiful. 

One day hope to own a WA33 and a holo audio may as well 

Till then I'll keep collecting headphones..


----------



## vonBaron

So CFA3 is even better than WA33?!


----------



## linshu1992 (Jul 21, 2022)

vonBaron said:


> So CFA3 is even better than WA33?!


With TC, for energy, punchiness, and fullness, definitely. Those also tend to jump out the most in quick impressions. The rest of sound signature feels similar but I may get a better grasp after spending longer time with the chains.


----------



## vonBaron

Still, impressive just looking at price.


----------



## linshu1992 (Jul 21, 2022)

Man, speaker amps don't **** around. AHB2 and CFA3 have both defined a new level of listening experience for me on TC and Susvara. And I'm coming from WA33 which I believe is already quite powerful. Those new sound signatures share similar traits, which makes me believe the amp's power is doing the magic. I'm thinking you may get similar performance with even less money on cheaper speaker amps.

What WA33 does very, very well is details and refinement. Whenever it's in the chain, details in music stand out better. This is quite obvious with Susvara, less so with TC.


----------



## Roasty

@linshu1992 if you haven't already, give dedicated preamps a go.


----------



## linshu1992

Roasty said:


> @linshu1992 if you haven't already, give dedicated preamps a go.



Precisely what I’m thinking. Recommendations?


----------



## Roasty

linshu1992 said:


> Precisely what I’m thinking. Recommendations?



the sky is the limit. so many nice options out there. depends on budget, and if u want a solid state or tube pre.

somehow I never really got into the wa33 as a pre; I got more of a tubey warmish full sound using it as a hp amp than I did connecting it to my power amps.

as an example, my Evo 400 pre + ferrum stack (in bypass mode) is a few notches above wa33 + ferrum stack. and on top of the sound differences, I'd even say the Evo 400 has a cleaner background than the WA33. I even prefer ferrum stack alone than with the Wa33 as the pre. but wa33 alone trumps ferrum stack.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Ruddy1 said:


> Unfortunately, HD800 is better than 1266, in every way
> HD800 is always the most successful headset in my mind


I think the TC beats the 800 even for soundstage realism when properly amped (best I have heard is off an Accuphase e380).

The 800 sounds wide but diffuse and thin and lacks depth.

The only area where the 800S beats the TC is comfort.

The TC to me is more detailed than the Susvara and the Susvara is perceptibly more detailed than the 800.

For dynamics its a no contest. TC wins all day, every day.

For timbre, TC sounds more accurate with modern genres and the 800 for acoustic / classical. But I can see people preferring the 800’s timbre. 

Nonetheless, you are lucky if you like the 800 so much. You can save some money. 👍🏻


----------



## PhazeCrive (Jul 21, 2022)

Speaking about that, you can get an even more detailed presentation the wider the TC is from your ears. That really makes the treble come out of hiding, not that it ever was. The problem with that is the bass roll off, but I promise if you pull the TC wide you will hear details on top of what you thought was the detail layer. Is there so much a thing as too much detail?


----------



## linshu1992

Roasty said:


> the sky is the limit. so many nice options out there. depends on budget, and if u want a solid state or tube pre.
> 
> somehow I never really got into the wa33 as a pre; I got more of a tubey warmish full sound using it as a hp amp than I did connecting it to my power amps.
> 
> as an example, my Evo 400 pre + ferrum stack (in bypass mode) is a few notches above wa33 + ferrum stack. and on top of the sound differences, I'd even say the Evo 400 has a cleaner background than the WA33. I even prefer ferrum stack alone than with the Wa33 as the pre. but wa33 alone trumps ferrum stack.


Thanks! I’ll look into that. I found WA33 to retain pretty much the same signature as pre vs as amp. It’s a great sound but I’m also curious what a more tubey pre can sound like.


----------



## spacelion2077

PhazeCrive said:


> Speaking about that, you can get an even more detailed presentation the wider the TC is from your ears. That really makes the treble come out of hiding, not that it ever was. The problem with that is the bass roll off, but I promise if you pull the TC wide you will hear details on top of what you thought was the detail layer. Is there so much a thing as too much detail?


I'm in the minority for this. To my ears, HD800s definitely has better detail retrieval than TC. Take the soundtrack of Grand Budapest hotel for example. On TC, every note sounds like it's coming from a concert hall with a distance. On HD800s, it's more intimate and closer to the ears and sparkle. If you adjust TC further from the ears, you get more bass presence, but in return you exchange it with less details.


----------



## DJJEZ

spacelion2077 said:


> I'm in the minority for this. To my ears, HD800s definitely has better detail retrieval than TC. Take the soundtrack of Grand Budapest hotel for example. On TC, every note sounds like it's coming from a concert hall with a distance. On HD800s, it's more intimate and closer to the ears and sparkle. If you adjust TC further from the ears, you get more bass presence, but in return you exchange it with less details.


What amp and dac are you using?


----------



## vonBaron

And how long have you been to the ENT doctor?


----------



## spacelion2077

DJJEZ said:


> What amp and dac are you using?


I'm using pontus and a soloist gt. Haven't dabbled in the tubes world yet.


----------



## Sajid Amit (Jul 21, 2022)

On an unrelated note, I have been struggling with neck and back spasms for many months now and have finally decided to concede that it partially due to heavy and prolonged headphone usage.

Considering selling a bunch of headphones including the TC and the Superconductor cable.

Anyone interested, feel free to message me.

Not an easy decision.


----------



## DJJEZ

Sajid Amit said:


> On an unrelated note, I have been struggling with neck and back spasms for many months now and have finally decided to concede that it partially due to heavy and prolonged headphone usage.
> 
> Considering selling a bunch of headphones including the TC and the Superconductor cable.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear man. I also have terrible back problems so know the struggle.


----------



## jlbrach

Sajid Amit said:


> On an unrelated note, I have been struggling with neck and back spasms for many months now and have finally decided to concede that it partially due to heavy and prolonged headphone usage.
> 
> Considering selling a bunch of headphones including the TC and the Superconductor cable.
> 
> ...


I have had 2 cervical surgeries...at one time I thought I would have to give up my HP hobby but I find if I listen with my back propped up I am ok...


----------



## Sajid Amit

DJJEZ said:


> Sorry to hear man. I also have terrible back problems so know the struggle.


Yeah. Want to try to avoid being chained to my desk. Looking to sell a whole bunch of gear lol.

As much as I far prefer HPs, may have to contend with things I can drive off DAPs.


----------



## dukeskd

The only thing HD800 may be "better" (subjective of course) than the 1266 is the holographic sound stage presented due to the black magic driver angling setup by Sennheiser. Otherwise, on every other facet 1266 decimates it.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Sajid Amit said:


> Yeah. Want to try to avoid being chained to my desk. Looking to sell a whole bunch of gear lol.
> 
> As much as I far prefer HPs, may have to contend with things I can drive off DAPs.



Really sorry to hear about that back issues. I too have significant back issues from a car accident a long time ago. If you're at your desk a lot, may want to try a standing desk. It has been an absolute game changer for me. 

Good luck on the sales!


----------



## Sajid Amit

number1sixerfan said:


> Really sorry to hear about that back issues. I too have significant back issues from a car accident a long time ago. If you're at your desk a lot, may want to try a standing desk. It has been an absolute game changer for me.
> 
> Good luck on the sales!


Thanks mate


----------



## SteveM324

Sajid Amit said:


> On an unrelated note, I have been struggling with neck and back spasms for many months now and have finally decided to concede that it partially due to heavy and prolonged headphone usage.
> 
> Considering selling a bunch of headphones including the TC and the Superconductor cable.
> 
> ...


Have you tried an inversion table?  I was going to several chiropractors, one of them recommended an inversion table.  Since getting it, I haven't been back to the chiropractor and that was about 5-6 years ago.  They aren't that expensive, I bought one for about $120 and there's no benefit to spending a lot more.  As you get older, the problem will only get worse unless you do something about it.   A few years ago, my boss was seeing a chiropractor 2-3 times a week, I suggested an inversion table to her and since she got it, she hasn't been back to the chiropractor.  Just a thought for you to consider.


----------



## Sajid Amit

SteveM324 said:


> Have you tried an inversion table?  I was going to several chiropractors, one of them recommended an inversion table.  Since getting it, I haven't been back to the chiropractor and that was about 5-6 years ago.  They aren't that expensive, I bought one for about $120 and there's no benefit to spending a lot more.  As you get older, the problem will only get worse unless you do something about it.   A few years ago, my boss was seeing a chiropractor 2-3 times a week, I suggested an inversion table to her and since she got it, she hasn't been back to the chiropractor.  Just a thought for you to consider.


Thanks for the tip. Checking it out.


----------



## PhazeCrive (Jul 23, 2022)

I'm 24, and I shouldn't have back problems, but I did for 2 years. I had lower back pain shoot down through my legs. Never bothered to see a doctor the entire time but if I did he would've told me this: you are sitting down for too long.

Eventually, I figured this out on my own. Tired of all the lost sleep, I stretched out my hamstring which was unbearably tight, and boom: back pain gone. Literally erased 2 years of constant pain just like that. Don't know if this is your case but you said you were sitting down for periods of time. Just in case it helps, get that hamstring stretched.


----------



## normie610

linshu1992 said:


> Precisely what I’m thinking. Recommendations?


Go with a 300B preamp, it‘s a match made in heaven with CFA3. I’m using Manley 300B and @paradoxper has Supratek DHT preamp.


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Go with a 300B preamp, it‘s a match made in heaven with CFA3. I’m using Manley 300B and @paradoxper has Supratek DHT preamp.


Yes. There is also the Elrog ER300B train to board.


----------



## DJJEZ

paradoxper said:


> Yes. There is also the Elrog ER300B train to board.


Boarding that train very soon


----------



## Trance_Gott

I don't understand you guys with all the weird amps. People, get the Niimbus and then you don't have to think about a better amp for 1266 TC and Susvara.


----------



## spacelion2077 (Jul 23, 2022)

Trance_Gott said:


> I don't understand you guys with all the weird amps. People, get the Niimbus and then you don't have to think about a better amp for 1266 TC and Susvara.


Not many people are willing to dish out $7000 for a solid state amp when you can similar result from a burson or fluxlab.


----------



## paradoxper

DJJEZ said:


> Boarding that train very soon


Well worth the expectation and the wait.


----------



## Trance_Gott

spacelion2077 said:


> Not many people are willing to dish out $7000 for a solid state amp when you can similar result from a burson or fluxlab.


Fluxlab, Topping are great amps for the prices. 
I mean really end of the game. The last 5-7%.


----------



## xcluded

Don’t have bottomless pit of money to burn. 
I value smaller footprint (my desk is miserably small) and to strike a balance between cost/performance. That’s why Benchmark is my beloved setup. Sonically neutral and powerful.


----------



## vonBaron

Niimbus is best amp i ever had/listen, not only have great SQ but pair well with wide range of headphones and iems.


----------



## attmci

You guys make me feel that all of us will end up in a wheelchair due to the 1266..............


----------



## nyceg (Jul 25, 2022)

Hi everyone!

As much of my knowledge of headphones came from reading this thread (and from direct correspondences with many of you here), I'm here again to ask for a bit of advice. My current system is as follows: MacBook -> Bricasti M3 -> Luxman P-750u -> Abyss 1266 TC. Eventually I'd like to wean off the MacBook and get an Aurender N200, but currently most of my listening is through Qobuz. I'm very happy with Qobuz, but have recently understood that, to my ears, CDs sound better. While I'd be super grateful if anyone here can offer their opinion on the Aurender N200 and on why CDs might sound "better," I'd really like a recommendation of a method for ripping and playing CDs on a Mac. So far, I've been using the trial version of "dBpoweramp Music Converter" and I've been ripping the CDs to the "FLAC" format under the setting of "Lossless Uncompressed." Since I haven't figured out the best method for play these files, I've been using VLC.

I know that this isn't directly related to the 1266s, however I've been accustomed to getting the best advice here.

Thanks so much!


----------



## paradoxper

You're on the right track. I use XLD same processing. I'll still never stream!

 Focus on a dedicated server and then likely switch to Roon for interface/playback.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jul 25, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> You're on the right track. I use XLD same processing. I'll still never stream!
> 
> Focus on a dedicated server and then likely switch to Roon for interface/playback.


I don’t stream either. Everything I listen to is a flac file locally stored on my antipodes k50 (using the Roon interference). I mean I stream in my car or with my Naim mu-so speaker, but never with headphones. Locally stored files just sound better to my ears. People claim you can increase the sound quality of streams with a Innuos PhoenixNET reclocker, but I’m not convinced of that, though I’ve never tried.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> I don’t stream either. Everything I listen to is a flac file locally stored on my antipodes k50 (using the Roon interference). I mean I stream in my car or with my Naim mu-so speaker, but never with headphones. Locally stored files just sound better to my ears. People claim you can increase the sound quality of streams with a Innuos PhoenixNET reclocker, but I’m not convinced of that, though I’ve never tried.


I have a feeling I'll resist the latest blutooth-DSP buzzword headphone of the future just as well. I'll give in to Neuralink and lose all humanity.


----------



## hk29

I was fortunate enough to pick up a 1266 TC + stock cable from a member here (thank you) and I'm glad I did.   After 2 weeks I found them: 

*Sound signature: *Great details, energy (quickness, leading edges well defined), and an open soundstage that provided a enjoyable listening experience even for vocal pop/indie music; I do notice that the vocals are bit recessed in busier tracks, but still very enjoyable - I think if I hadn't read about it, I probably wouldn't have noticed it.   I thought I would miss the lush/rich vocals of an Atrium or Empyreans, but I don't and rather see them as just different.
*Fit: *Comfortable to wear (with little adjustment) sitting and lying down; mind you when I'm lying down, I'm not critically listening.  I have a larger head as it fits with a small gap with it fully extended straight (no toe in/out).  I enjoy the sound both ways with a slightly loose fit and with slight pressure; but in general, per Joe's fit youtube vid , I can shake my head and the headphones will move, but not fall off.  I don't find it difficult to get a fit but I also don't have golden ears.
*Chain: *Works sufficient well enough with my modest chain (iPad -> Schiit yggy A1 unison -> Schiit MJ2) - I'm enjoying them and don't feel like I'm missing much (ignorant is bliss).
I'm sure there's a ton of room for improvements (adjusting the fit, better amp, cables, source) but right now I'm really enjoying them a LOT!


----------



## SteveM324 (Jul 27, 2022)

nyceg said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> As much of my knowledge of headphones came from reading this thread (and from direct correspondences with many of you here), I'm here again to ask for a bit of advice. My current system is as follows: MacBook -> Bricasti M3 -> Luxman P-750u -> Abyss 1266 TC. Eventually I'd like to wean off the MacBook and get an Aurender N200, but currently most of my listening is through Qobuz. I'm very happy with Qobuz, but have recently understood that, to my ears, CDs sound better. While I'd be super grateful if anyone here can offer their opinion on the Aurender N200 and on why CDs might sound "better," I'd really like a recommendation of a method for ripping and playing CDs on a Mac. So far, I've been using the trial version of "dBpoweramp Music Converter" and I've been ripping the CDs to the "FLAC" format under the setting of "Lossless Uncompressed." Since I haven't figured out the best method for play these files, I've been using VLC.
> 
> ...


I upgraded about a year ago from an Aurender N100H to the W20SE.  The difference was huge as is it should be for 7-8 times MSRP cost.  I got a deal on a less than 1 year old mint W20SE that I couldn't pass up.  The W20SE has 2 batteries where one is always charging and the other is powering the audio circuit so that it's essentially off the grid.  Regarding your question about upgrading from your laptop, my friend compared his an optimized for sound quality Mac Mini to his N100H and he concluded that the Aurender was big upgrade.  Streaming can be as good as local files but it takes some research and money to get there. 

Over 1-1/2 years ago I set out to improve my streaming capability and try to achieve the quality of my locally stored files.  I think I achieved my goal but it took a lot of effort and dollars to get there including improving the ethernet signal going into the W20SE.  I have 3 linear power supplies powering 3 ethernet components before the signal reaches my W20SE.  The 3 ethernet components are the Etherregen, Sonore optical module deluxe, and an OCXO clock.  I also have ethernet RFI filters in the system. I also changed from being hard wired from a wifi booster to hard wired to my main router (no wifi).  There are neater solutions such as the Innous PhoenixNET but I haven't heard it.  I may buy the PhoenixNET for my other system.

The end result is my streaming setup is without a doubt as good imo as locally stored files or CD/SACDs played back on my PS Audio SACD transport connected via an I2S connection to my Holo May KTE.   For me, the effort was worth it because I can stream Qobuz and Tidal (I prefer Qobuz) at a sound quality level equal to or better than CDs or ripped locally stored digital files.  This gives me access to millions albums at high sound quality.  I sometimes think my streams sound better than CDs or local files but that may be due to different masters of the same album.


----------



## NZtechfreak

Ah, this morning one of the bands holding the suspension headband has broken. Are there readily available off the shelf ones I can replace it with?


----------



## dude120

NZtechfreak said:


> Ah, this morning one of the bands holding the suspension headband has broken. Are there readily available off the shelf ones I can replace it with?


I've just purchased one of those boxes of multiple sized o rings from a hardware store and replaced them as needed. The cost of a new headband is asinine. Granted my solution isn't as pretty as the stock headband, but eh it works.


----------



## sahmen

NZtechfreak said:


> Ah, this morning one of the bands holding the suspension headband has broken. Are there readily available off the shelf ones I can replace it with?


Do you mean these?  They've generally worked well for me :  

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GSKKHQM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## llamaluv

Hi, has anyone tried using their Superconductor cable into any other headphones by way of a headphone connector adapter? I'm wondering if it's worth giving it a try with the Susvara, for instance.


----------



## ken6217

llamaluv said:


> Hi, has anyone tried using their Superconductor cable into any other headphones by way of a headphone connector adapter? I'm wondering if it's worth giving it a try with the Susvara, for instance.


I have a an affinity adapter you can try and give a listen. I have 4 into 3 and 3 into 4.


----------



## llamaluv

ken6217 said:


> I have a an affinity adapter you can try and give a listen. I have 4 into 3 and 3 into 4.


Okay yea!, that's interesting, with that we could try the Superconductor cable with the Atrium or Verite Closed, if only for shzzts and giggles.


----------



## ken6217

llamaluv said:


> Okay yea!, that's interesting, with that we could try the Superconductor cable with the Atrium or Verite Closed, if only for shzzts and giggles.


That’s true. I actually think the ZMF upgraded copper cable doesn’t sound as good as the stock cable.


----------



## F208Frank

Man the Abyss headphone never gets old, especially after a 1 to 2 week break, every time once they are back on the head, it is just straight smiles.


----------



## vonBaron

When i switch from my BT headphones to 1266 im always blown away how fantastic this headphones are.


----------



## PhazeCrive (Aug 2, 2022)

What's funny is that it's an open back yet still has more bass and extension than most closed backs that are tuned to be bassy.


----------



## deuter

PhazeCrive said:


> What's funny is that it's an open back yet still has more bass and extension than most closed backs that are tuned to be bassy.


Its got a  bass port and that's what is assisting with the immense bass.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

THD curve of ABYSS AB1266 Phi TC, less than 0.2% THD from 20-20 KHz, average 0.035% THD through most of the audible spectrum. Measurements made with the B&K 5128 HF HATS placed inside a sound isolation booth with proper headphone placement and seal to the test head, using an APx517B Acoustic Analyzer.


----------



## PhazeCrive

deuter said:


> Its got a  bass port and that's what is assisting with the immense bass.


One could argue YOU are the port ;D


----------



## F208Frank (Aug 7, 2022)

_“He who is not contented with what he has would not be contented with what he would like to have.” -Socrates

P.S. I love my TCs. I always visit this thread to express my love for it as I have no where else to release that emotion, lol. It is not like any of my friends or family would understand. Everytime I let a family member or friend try em out, I always get a "meh" response so at this point, I don't even care to let people try anymore. I guess within this world, only a small group of people appreciate great sound._


----------



## paradoxper

F208Frank said:


> _“He who is not contented with what he has would not be contented with what he would like to have.” -Socrates
> 
> P.S. I love my TCs. I always visit this thread to express my love for it as I have no where else to release that emotion, lol. It is not like any of my friends or family would understand. Everytime I let a family member or friend try em out, I always get a "meh" response so at this point, I don't even care to let people try anymore. I guess within this world, only a small group of people appreciate great sound._


It's ok, I get you, Frank. They don't have to understand. All I get are blank stares, for obvious other reasons.


----------



## F208Frank (Aug 7, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> It's ok, I get you, Frank. They don't have to understand. All I get are blank stares, for obvious other reasons.


Yeah at this point I do not anticipate any "wow" responses like I did before, I do not mind it at all, I am just more so surprised that less people appreciate it as much as we do. I assumed that even if someone was not into this stuff, they would at least appreciate it at least at 50 percent enthusiasm as to say compared to my 100 percent.

Just a surprising amusing reality that I was met with, that's all. I guess when people are into their own things, they automatically assume others would be too at least some degree, this was me.


----------



## PhazeCrive

If you want to wow people with the TC you need to play a bassy/groovy track and squeeze the headphone on them (to reduce the bass) then remove your hands to let 50hz bass shelf come alive. There's no way they won't immediately notice the bass shelf and sudden slam.


----------



## jlbrach

F208Frank said:


> _“He who is not contented with what he has would not be contented with what he would like to have.” -Socrates
> 
> P.S. I love my TCs. I always visit this thread to express my love for it as I have no where else to release that emotion, lol. It is not like any of my friends or family would understand. Everytime I let a family member or friend try em out, I always get a "meh" response so at this point, I don't even care to let people try anymore. I guess within this world, only a small group of people appreciate great sound._


definitely true, when I had my speaker system I had a good friend listen to it..I thought it was glorious he could have cared less...a transistor radio was as good to him


----------



## Ciggavelli

Yo, this sh!t is really good (sludgy noise metal):


----------



## anvamv

Recently i got myself a Requisite HSA1-B amp to drive my Raal headphones and i was surprised to hear how  good my 1266 TC Phi sounds through it  out of the SR1A output (not conventional). Compared to my Formula S/Powerman combo the sound is more open with more sparkle  whereas the Formula S has lower noise floor and maybe a little better texture in bass. To be frank i would not be missing the Formula S/Powerman if i played the 1266 TC Phi from the HSA1-b exclusively. Has anyone else compared the 1266 TC Phi out of HSA1-B ??


----------



## number1sixerfan

anvamv said:


> Recently i got myself a Requisite HSA1-B amp to drive my Raal headphones and i was surprised to hear how  good my 1266 TC Phi sounds through it  out of the SR1A output (not conventional). Compared to my Formula S/Powerman combo the sound is more open with more sparkle  whereas the Formula S has lower noise floor and maybe a little better texture in bass. To be frank i would not be missing the Formula S/Powerman if i played the 1266 TC Phi from the HSA1-b exclusively. Has anyone else compared the 1266 TC Phi out of HSA1-B ??



I used it quite a bit and did a lot of comparison between the WA33 and my EVO 400 speaker amp. The HSA definitely holds its own. I ultimately preferred my other amps, especially the WA33 which synergizes with the TC really well, but I could've easily lived with the HSA-1b long term. Actually I'm kicking myself for not keeping it, as I'm ready to part with my speaker amp due to size, lack of convenience and use.


----------



## paradoxper

anvamv said:


> Recently i got myself a Requisite HSA1-B amp to drive my Raal headphones and i was surprised to hear how  good my 1266 TC Phi sounds through it  out of the SR1A output (not conventional). Compared to my Formula S/Powerman combo the sound is more open with more sparkle  whereas the Formula S has lower noise floor and maybe a little better texture in bass. To be frank i would not be missing the Formula S/Powerman if i played the 1266 TC Phi from the HSA1-b exclusively. Has anyone else compared the 1266 TC Phi out of HSA1-B ??


Quite a few. I briefly compared the HSA before moving to the uberamp for the SR1a, I found the top end was more rolled with too much bloom on the bottom end and some recession through the upper midrange. Overall signature reminded me of the Bakoon AMP-13R. A great convenience but quite easily outperformed by a CFA3, 13R or even uberamp for driving the SR1a but very serviceable for what it is.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> Yo, this sh!t is really good (sludgy noise metal):


Nods. Raise:


----------



## jlbrach

anvamv said:


> Recently i got myself a Requisite HSA1-B amp to drive my Raal headphones and i was surprised to hear how  good my 1266 TC Phi sounds through it  out of the SR1A output (not conventional). Compared to my Formula S/Powerman combo the sound is more open with more sparkle  whereas the Formula S has lower noise floor and maybe a little better texture in bass. To be frank i would not be missing the Formula S/Powerman if i played the 1266 TC Phi from the HSA1-b exclusively. Has anyone else compared the 1266 TC Phi out of HSA1-B ??


I have the TC and have indeed used the 1B with it and thought it quite good but not quite as good as the formula s/powerman combo or my new KG CFA3


----------



## anvamv

paradoxper said:


> Quite a few. I briefly compared the HSA before moving to the uberamp for the SR1a, I found the top end was more rolled with too much bloom on the bottom end and some recession through the upper midrange. Overall signature reminded me of the Bakoon AMP-13R. A great convenience but quite easily outperformed by a CFA3, 13R or even uberamp for driving the SR1a but very serviceable for what it is.


CFA3 can drive the SR1a direct or via TI-1 inteface? Who manufactures/sells this model?


----------



## anvamv

jlbrach said:


> I have the TC and have indeed used the 1B with it and thought it quite good but not quite as good as the formula s/powerman combo or my new KG CFA3


Since i can relate to the formula s/powerman combo , what aspect you liked better with XI audio vs Requisite?


----------



## paradoxper

anvamv said:


> CFA3 can drive the SR1a direct or via TI-1 inteface? Who manufactures/sells this model?


Either. The CFA3 is a DIY design by Kevin Gilmore. You can commission a build.


----------



## anvamv

paradoxper said:


> Either. The CFA3 is a DIY design by Kevin Gilmore. You can commission a build.


How can i get information about models specs and pricing please??


----------



## paradoxper (Aug 10, 2022)

anvamv said:


> How can i get information about models specs and pricing please??


It's a variable specification due to the nature of DIY: the CFA3 is a zero negative feedback topology with the flexibility of Super Symmetry addition, dual mono construction 80V P2P with the GRLV power supply and output of 16W into 50 Ohm. Baseline $4k. All parts selection are upgradeable within spec.


----------



## anvamv

paradoxper said:


> It's a variable specification due to the nature of DIY: the CFA3 is a zero negative feedback topology with the flexibility of Super Symmetry addition, dual mono construction 80V P2P with the GRLV power supply and output of 16W into 50 Ohm. Baseline $4k. All parts selection are upgradeable within spec.


Ok thanks, with whom should i get in touch for further information about the built and cost on various options of parts/specs etc?


----------



## paradoxper

anvamv said:


> Ok thanks, with whom should i get in touch for further information about the built and cost on various options of parts/specs etc?


Dukei is a primary builder for the Head-Fi space, And now for something completely different thread is the primary source with a variety of Gilmore community builders.


----------



## qboogie

paradoxper said:


> It's a variable specification due to the nature of DIY: the CFA3 is a zero negative feedback topology with the flexibility of Super Symmetry addition, dual mono construction 80V P2P with the GRLV power supply and output of 16W into 50 Ohm. Baseline $4k. All parts selection are upgradeable within spec.


I'm gonna need to look up those abbreviations!


----------



## normie610

anvamv said:


> CFA3 can drive the SR1a direct or via TI-1 inteface?


Oh yes completely! I’ve been using CFA3 to drive SR1a through the old interface box (not the TI) from its speaker output and the sound is just incredible. It’s THE amp. Susvara, TC and SR1a all sound amazing out of CFA3.


----------



## jlbrach

agreed, the cfa3 which I waited for longer than I ever waited for an audio product has proven to be worth the wait...I am using it with the Tl box and my raal HP's...at this time with the new circumaural version and it is wonderful and of course it is great with the susvara and TC as well


----------



## anvamv

paradoxper said:


> Dukei is a primary builder for the Head-Fi space, And now for something completely different thread is the primary source with a variety of Gilmore community builders.


Thanks. i saw on your gear description that you also own KG uberamp2 . Is this amp model exclusively for the SR1a direct or it can drive the Abyss too ? SR1a sounds better through uberamp2 or CFA3? I reckon the Abyss will mate better with CFA3, no ?


----------



## paradoxper

anvamv said:


> Thanks. i saw on your gear description that you also own KG uberamp2 . Is this amp model exclusively for the SR1a direct or it can drive the Abyss too ? SR1a sounds better through uberamp2 or CFA3? I reckon the Abyss will mate better with CFA3, no ?


I asked Kevin Gilmore to design me a direct drive amp for the SR1a, he adopted his uberamp circuit which is a very powerful speaker amplifier.
He also designed the raalopamp >RAALstar to outperform the size of the Jotunheim R for around $500.


----------



## anvamv

paradoxper said:


> I asked Kevin Gilmore to design me a direct drive amp for the SR1a, he adopted his uberamp circuit which is a very powerful speaker amplifier.
> He also designed the raalopamp >RAALstar to outperform the size of the Jotunheim R for around $500.


Υou prefer your SR1a being driven by CFA3 or uberamp2?


----------



## thecrow

jlbrach said:


> agreed, the cfa3 which* I waited for longer than I ever waited for an audio product* has proven to be worth the wait...I am using it with the Tl box and my raal HP's...at this time with the new circumaural version and it is wonderful and of course it is great with the susvara and TC as well


Does that include cables?
Cause I have waited and waited with some cable makers.


----------



## paradoxper

thecrow said:


> Does that include cables?
> Cause I have waited and waited with some cable makers.


I waited two years as Kerry redesigned the DIY T2 layout. That would be my maximum.


----------



## jlbrach

thecrow said:


> Does that include cables?
> Cause I have waited and waited with some cable makers.


I didnt need cables


----------



## Ciggavelli

paradoxper said:


> Nods. Raise:


That Malignant Altar is good, and I just read they are from Houston, where I live currently (so an added bonus)


----------



## thecrow

jlbrach said:


> I didnt need cables


fwiw you wrote “…*I* *waited for longer than I ever waited for an audio product”.*

I meant does that include waiting periods for any cables you may have ordered off some makers in the past.
Because some of those waits can watch some months and seasons go by.

anyway…….


----------



## jlbrach

I have had waits for cables in the past but nothing like the wait for the CFA3 which took me 9 months and which several times I almost gave up...glad I didnt


----------



## Stereolab42

F208Frank said:


> Man the Abyss headphone never gets old, especially after a 1 to 2 week break, every time once they are back on the head, it is just straight smiles.


Yeah, just came back from 10-day vacation, returning to the Abyss was heaven. I can't wait for the Diana TC closed-back so I have something comparable to take with me (and I hope they tweak the power requirements so it's at least plausible to drive from a decent portable amp).


----------



## jk6661 (Aug 20, 2022)

I just bought a pair of Sony wireless WF-1000XM5 headphones. I thought they sounded pretty good, and then I listened to my 1266s. 

(I understand the Sonys sound fine for wireless headphones. But still, the 1266s kind of took the sheen off of that purchase.)


----------



## kawhia

Stereolab42 said:


> Yeah, just came back from 10-day vacation, returning to the Abyss was heaven. I can't wait for the Diana TC closed-back so I have something comparable to take with me (and I hope they tweak the power requirements so it's at least plausible to drive from a decent portable amp).


Me too. Vacation, then last night a first full evening listening to music. Just magic!


----------



## simorag

A feast for the ears, mind and soul, and a mighty rewarding way to reaquaintance with the AB-1266 after some hiatus ...


----------



## Slim1970

jk6661 said:


> I just bought a pair of Sony wireless WF-1000XM5 headphones. I thought they sounded pretty good, and then I listened to my 1266s.
> 
> (I understand the Sonys sound fine for wireless headphones. But still, the 1266s kind of took the sheen off of that purchase.)


I have the same Sony wireless headphones. I don’t even think to compare them to my AB-1266’s, haha. The Sony’s do sound better than any Bose wireless headphone for what it’s worth


----------



## PhazeCrive

Veiled and muffled are a couple words that come to mind when I put on my Sony XM3's. Sounds like if you put a rug over your speakers. Treble is veiled and bass is indirectly boosted. Boomy and hazy lol.


----------



## DJJEZ

jk6661 said:


> I just bought a pair of Sony wireless WF-1000XM5 headphones. I thought they sounded pretty good, and then I listened to my 1266s.
> 
> (I understand the Sonys sound fine for wireless headphones. But still, the 1266s kind of took the sheen off of that purchase.)


I have the XM5's as well. Honestly really enjoy them for the price they cost.


----------



## Womaz

DJJEZ said:


> I have the XM5's as well. Honestly really enjoy them for the price they cost.


I still have the Sony XM2 and yeah for the price they sound great. i think for outdoor listenig they are very good, thats why I have not replaced them.........yet


----------



## ufospls2 (Aug 24, 2022)

Stumbled upon this, and it was _incredible_ with the 1266 TC's. Its ritualistic or shamanistic almost, whilst also being heavy metalish (but also _*not at all*_ heavy metalish at the same time.) Truly enjoyed it as a change of pace from my usual listening.

Their other albums are worth checking out also.


----------



## PhazeCrive

I'll be sleeping with one eye open now ^
XD


----------



## zenlisten

simorag said:


> For those willing to give their AB-1266 TC drivers some serious gym in the bass region I recommend Graffiti Jazz No. 3, the 2nd track from the new David Chesky label _The Audiophile Society_ free sampler. Just ludicrous
> 
> The whole sampler is very variegated and enjoyable, I did not expect any disappointment from David. Having headphone-specific mastering available is a great option of course, I will follow closely the next releases from this label
> 
> ​


Strange, I can't find this on the linked page. How can I buy it?


----------



## Skywatcher

zenlisten said:


> Strange, I can't find this on the linked page. How can I buy it?


Either go to the main page https://theaudiophilesociety.com/ and scroll down past the Featured Releases or just click here


----------



## zenlisten

Skywatcher said:


> Either go to the main page https://theaudiophilesociety.com/ and scroll down past the Featured Releases or just click here


Thanks, mate, got it!


----------



## PhazeCrive (Aug 25, 2022)

Graffiti Jazz No. 3 does have nice bass, but to me it's a little lean and rolled off. I set my TC's bass shelf at 48-50hz, where these are the loudest bass frequencies and everything below is rolled off. It breathes more life into the music and reveals details in this range many headphones glide over. But for tracks like that I have to adjust for more seal.

I am curious as to how you guys listen to your TCs? Where is your bass slope? 50hz, 35hz?


----------



## paradoxper (Aug 25, 2022)

I primarily lean heavy heavy low low but this was a blast


----------



## Malcyg (Sep 25, 2022)

llamaluv said:


> Hi, has anyone tried using their Superconductor cable into any other headphones by way of a headphone connector adapter? I'm wondering if it's worth giving it a try with the Susvara, for instance.



I have Diana Phi and I bought a Superconductor when I bought the phones since I got a really good deal on the cable. I bought it because I could also use it with my Susvara which have the the same connectors. Long story short, that cable has never been removed from the Susvara. It gave a very worthwhile boost to the soundstage, clarity, imaging, bass, transparency - just everything was more.

My signal feed to Susvara is Taiko Extreme > Weiss DAC 501 4CH > Wells Headtrip II Level II > SC > Susvara.

I use different phones with different gear for optimal synergies and also own HD 800, Utopia, LCD-5, DiPhi & 1266 TC but that Susvara combination above is the best in what I have. Quite astonishing and very emotive with the right music.

Give it a try - you may just like it. 😉


----------



## Abyss Headphones

A very thorough and well written review by Headfonics with distinct sonic impressions of the new DCS Lina headphone amplifier…

https://headfonics.com/dcs-lina-headphone-amplifier-review/

Also our take on this most excellent amplifier…


----------



## F208Frank

TCs, supa hot fiyah, just back on work trip, and threw them back on at the work desk

**up up and away**


----------



## tubelvr1

Ok i wanted to tell my experience with abyss and their quality control issue. I own a tc which I bought directly from abyss. Approx 3 years old now. About 3 months ago my left driver was causing the dreaded sleepy driver issue. Sent it to them for warranty service. Came back after month and a half later. Everything seemed ok. Now tonight will playing some music the right driver is doing the same crap. I don’t listen on a regular basis. My headphones are in my bedroom in a temperature controlled environment. Obviously when they repaired the unit they didn’t check to see the other driver which obviously has a design flaw. Btw this is my second time I’m having this issue. I originally owned the phi which I bought from them which exhibited flutter noise in bass frequencies had to get it repaired under warranty, and then sold it. Thought the tc would be a better design. A 6k pair of headphones which has max 3 year driver life. Unbelievable. Anyone here with experience like this please let me know. Let me know what my next steps should be?


----------



## Abyss Headphones

@tubelvr1
Send us an email with your serial number and current return shipping address and we’ll get an RA your way to send it our way. Service is running under 2 weelks.
Thanks!


----------



## F208Frank (Sep 11, 2022)

Abyss Headphones said:


> @tubelvr1
> Send us an email with your serial number and current return shipping address and we’ll get an RA your way to send it our way. Service is running under 2 weelks.
> Thanks!


Really wonderful to see Abyss on top of their service game with prompt responses and care.

Abyss 4 Lyfe BRUH!

Abyss the nuts, hey.
It is end game, hey.
They got some fame, hey.
Due to Youtube
I like some boobs
Right driver down
Please don't just frown
They replace it now
There will be sound
I am a clown

-F208frank (Abyss 4 Lyfe Bruh)


----------



## tubelvr1

Appreciate the very prompt reply from abyss. Apologies for putting this on a public forum.
 I Will send info to create a new RA..thanks.


----------



## ahossam

Well my TC arrived exactly at jan 01 2020, bought it new from local dealer. Fortunately its still doing fine no problems so far, I hope it will going strong further than 3 years. Best headphones for my taste, especially with WA33.


----------



## deuter

Any music recommendations for AB1266 OG?


----------



## ufospls2 (Sep 13, 2022)

deuter said:


> Any music recommendations for AB1266 OG?


What sort of stuff are you into usually? I always enjoy Daisuke Tanabe and Kidkanievel - Kidsuke, but you would have to be into electronic stuff






also this album for jazz


----------



## deuter

ufospls2 said:


> What sort of stuff are you into usually? I always enjoy Daisuke Tanabe and Kidkanievel - Kidsuke, but you would have to be into electronic stuff
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Electronic, Jazz, Classic Rock, Avoca Trance and Blues.


----------



## ufospls2

deuter said:


> Electronic, Jazz, Classic Rock, Avoca Trance and Blues.


Give those two albums a try then, you might enjoy them : )


----------



## llamaluv

Malcyg said:


> I have Diana Phi and I bought a Superconductor when I bought the phones since I got a really good deal on the cable. I bought it because I could also use it with my Susvara which have the the same connectors. Long story short, that cable has never been removed from the Susvara. It gave a very worthwhile boost to the soundstage, clarity, imaging, bass, transparency - just everything was more.


Speaking of using the Superconductor cable with other headphones, these days I've been using the SC cable primarily with the ZMF Atrium (using an AffinityAdapters adapter), which probably sounds like an unlikely pairing. 

I love it, and really think it elevates the Atrium's sound signature a lot compared the copper Norne Drausk cable I'd been using before this. The Drausk is more "immediate"-sounding, sounds "closer", and warmer in the lower-mids and bass, and also just generally more typical. The SC yields a larger and very "even" soundstage, with instruments pushed back a tad, better separation of instruments, and just generally more refined. I'm actually more impressed with what the SC cable does for the Atrium than I am with what it does for the TC (though I haven't been giving much listening time to the TC for several weeks, so there's that, too).


----------



## Ciggavelli

I got the dreaded sleepy driver problem on the right side on my TCs today 

It went away after turning the volume kinda loud, but it can’t be a good sign. It’s probably 3 years old. I’ll see what happens, but I’m guessing I’ll need new drivers.


----------



## normie610

Ciggavelli said:


> I got the dreaded sleepy driver problem on the right side on my TCs today
> 
> It went away after turning the volume kinda loud, but it can’t be a good sign. It’s probably 3 years old. I’ll see what happens, but I’m guessing I’ll need new drivers.


That's too bad. But can you or somebody else explain what exactly is the sleepy driver issue? Is one of the drivers stop working or it's still working but with a much lower volume?

I'm trying to understand the symptoms so one day if I encounter such issue, I won't have to panic (I hope no such issue 🤞🏼)


----------



## Ciggavelli

normie610 said:


> That's too bad. But can you or somebody else explain what exactly is the sleepy driver issue? Is one of the drivers stop working or it's still working but with a much lower volume?
> 
> I'm trying to understand the symptoms so one day if I encounter such issue, I won't have to panic (I hope no such issue 🤞🏼)


For me the right driver all but stopped working. There was some sound but it was very faint. I remember reading in the past that pumping up the volume to a high level would fix the issue. In my case it did. I don’t know if it’s a temporary or permanent solution. I fear it is only a temporary one though. We shall see.


----------



## normie610

Ciggavelli said:


> For me the right driver all but stopped working. There was some sound but it was very faint. I remember reading in the past that pumping up the volume to a high level would fix the issue. In my case it did. I don’t know if it’s a temporary or permanent solution. I fear it is only a temporary one though. We shall see.


Thanks! 

In that case, I actually had a similar issue when I received my TC. The left driver has lower sound volume, but when I pumped the volume then the issue disappeared. After a while it's gone completely and now it's working normally. I hope it will stay that way for more than 3 years.


----------



## vcoheda

based on posts in this thread, seems like if you do have a driver problem, it will get worse and/or more frequent over time - about $1000, again per posts here, to get new matched drivers. not cheap but with new drivers, it is almost like having a new headphone.


----------



## MWeston

Somewhere back in this thread, this was discussed in detail and Abyss recommended that people don't fix it themselves but it's not so easy if you don't live in the USA.  Contamination builds up under the clip that connects the wires to the conductive surface of the planar membrane.  High SPL vibrates the membrane and can dislodge the contamination a tiny bit, enough to improve sound.  Eventually, it is likely to get worse.  The true solution is to slide the clip off and clean the conductive surfaces of the clip and the membrane.  Even wiggling the clip can displace the contamination but Abyss does not recommend this as the clip has tension against the membrane and this can scratch at the conductive material (presumably copper which is soft).

If you (or anyone) do (does) end up sending it back to Abyss, I would word it strongly to them that they clean the contacts in BOTH the left and right sides as it will just happen on the other one eventually.  Someone here has said that it seemed like they only cleaned the side that failed and ended up needing to send it back again.  At least with cleaning you will probably get another three years.


----------



## kawhia

Ciggavelli said:


> For me the right driver all but stopped working. There was some sound but it was very faint. I remember reading in the past that pumping up the volume to a high level would fix the issue. In my case it did. I don’t know if it’s a temporary or permanent solution. I fear it is only a temporary one though. We shall see.


May I ask how old your hp are? That is not cool. I hope this doesn’t happen to mine. And when it happens it happen in the warranty period. 
Good luck.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Sep 15, 2022)

kawhia said:


> May I ask how old your hp are? That is not cool. I hope this doesn’t happen to mine. And when it happens it happen in the warranty period.
> Good luck.


About 3 years. It’s out of warranty (I didn’t register either because I didn’t know you had to for the extra warranty time, so I missed the window).

I’m wondering what the cost is for 2 new drivers. I’m guessing $2K, but I don’t know.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> About 3 years. It’s out of warranty (I didn’t register either because I didn’t know you had to for the extra warranty time, so I missed the window).
> 
> I’m wondering what the cost is for 2 new drivers. I’m guessing $2K, but I don’t know.


Driver replacemenst are $1k. However, I do recall this issue of buildup and they may just service you free of charge.


----------



## Exekuhtor

Hi,
I am looking to complement my Susvara with a 1266 (still not 100% sure, the other candidats are Utopia (old or new) or the LCD-4). I currently observe the used market and was wondering how big the driver changes between the Phi model (the second model) and the newest TC are. The TC new is 6595€ here (big oof to their price increase) which is a lot and i've not read anywhere that you can get a way better deal for it like the sus.
Used Utopias sell for ~2k (the new one will be 5k but that's still less than the 1266) and the LCD-4 has the "rarity" problem but can be found for under 3k.

The goal is to get a resolving, punchy, maybe even fatiguing / aggressive headphone with a thick bass that slams and grabs my attention.


----------



## ra990

Exekuhtor said:


> The goal is to get a resolving, punchy, maybe even fatiguing / aggressive headphone with a thick bass that slams and grabs my attention.


You want the Abyss TC, it's the ideal headphone to fit your description really. Look for a used one on the classifieds market, they go for around $4k.


----------



## kckfor

@ra990 - can you compare the Diana TC bass to the Phi?


----------



## Exekuhtor

ra990 said:


> You want the Abyss TC, it's the ideal headphone to fit your description really. Look for a used one on the classifieds market, they go for around $4k.



Yeah, theres one for 3,8k that is the Phi model, not the newest TC, i was wondering how big the difference between the two drivers are.
Maybe i save up a bit more / trade my HD800S in which i do not love like i should...
Thanks for the reply!


----------



## ra990

kckfor said:


> @ra990 - can you compare the Diana TC bass to the Phi?


I cannot, I haven't tried the Diana TC yet. I had the Diana Phi for a few months and enjoyed it less than the big brother for sure.


----------



## rreynolds

Exekuhtor said:


> Yeah, theres one for 3,8k that is the Phi model, not the newest TC, i was wondering how big the difference between the two drivers are.
> Maybe i save up a bit more / trade my HD800S in which i do not love like i should...
> Thanks for the reply!


They're quite similar. The TC drivers are a bit more resolving, but there's no difference in the bass response between Phi and TC from what I heard.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

kckfor said:


> @ra990 - can you compare the Diana TC bass to the Phi?



Diana TC has the strongest "attack" among all Dianas. DTC also produce bigger sub bass feel too when side by side with Diana Phi.

At the same time, DTC also the one with more transparent and analytic (less forgiving) in treble area. Definitely still smoother than 1266 TC though.


----------



## vonBaron

Don't aggre, overall bas in DTC are way more shy than on 1266 and they are more shouty, harsh than 1266.


----------



## Stereolab42

deuter said:


> Any music recommendations for AB1266 OG?


The OG is the king of dynamics and bombast, any music that fits that bill is exemplified. Shoot for the TC someday and you'll gain the detail and precision that Abyss built into the upgraded model, while keeping all of the earlier good stuff.


----------



## PhazeCrive

No sleepy driver here, but I have metal fillings on my TC drivers, so they are quite bass light. Need to send them in for a cleaning. I didn't want that to happen, but I knew it would since I work at a metal factory. I was able to keep them alive for 8 months, but my job found a way to sneak some metal on me. :V

I'm wondering if there is a way to clear any hidden magnetic particles in your room, such as by scanning the area with a magnet?


----------



## TheMiddleSky

vonBaron said:


> Don't aggre, overall bas in DTC are way more shy than on 1266 and they are more shouty, harsh than 1266.



Of course 1266 TC would produce bigger bass than Diana TC. Still, 1266 TC a bit on harsher side for me though.


----------



## normie610

TheMiddleSky said:


> Still, 1266 TC a bit on harsher side for me though.


Even when driven by the Telemachus?


----------



## karangovil

I am debating between getting a used pair that doesn’t have any warranty left vs a new pair which will come with 3 year warranty (with online registration).

Given that there are incidences of driver failures/issues on these, how do people feel about buying used without warranty?


----------



## rreynolds

karangovil said:


> I am debating between getting a used pair that doesn’t have any warranty left vs a new pair which will come with 3 year warranty (with online registration).
> 
> Given that there are incidences of driver failures/issues on these, how do people feel about buying used without warranty?


If you plan on keeping the headphones more than 2 years, it'd be wise to go the warranty route.


----------



## Exekuhtor

I just bought the used 1266 Phi here from the classified market, so the second version, not the TC.
There's a 1266 TC listed for 4,9k from a user that has a shitton of excellent ratings, the pictures look awesome but it was a bit too much for me.

The question is: how much you wanna spent? Have you listened to an Abyss yet? I have not. Worst thing for me, i don't love it that much and can sell it without a loss here... I have not read that much about broken 1266 headphones, the very first version had some problems from which i read but it's not that common. I read about driver problems with the Utopias and general problems with Hifimans (less driver, more overall quality control issues, i had to fiddle with some stuff myself which thankfully was easy to take care of myself).

You also can't get a sneak peak of the abyss house sound besides shows, with Hifiman or other brands you can get an entry headphone and get an idea of what the higher models will sound like.

It should arrive in a few days, i am pumped hearing that thing. My main genre is rock.


----------



## karangovil

rreynolds said:


> If you plan on keeping the headphones more than 2 years, it'd be wise to go the warranty route.


That makes sense, I was leaning towards that as well but wanted some confirmation I suppose. I generally spend a lot of time researching and trying before buying so usually end up keeping for the long haul unless something breaks so probably best to buy new.



Exekuhtor said:


> The question is: how much you wanna spent? Have you listened to an Abyss yet?


I would love to not spend the full price  but also don't want to end up potentially spending the repair cost one year down the line so it's hard to say. I did hear the 1266 at NYC CanJam earlier this year at various booths and loved it. I also listen to metal and rock about 60-70% of the time so very excited to get a pair of these! Hope you enjoy yours .

What amp are you planning to drive these with?


----------



## Exekuhtor

I bought my two Ferrums (look signature) for the Susvara, there is no way i'll buy another pricey amp in the near future, so that's what i'll use. Most of the posts indicate that it pairs well with a 1266, but then occasionally an user "hates" it, but on the other hand i read that some people "hate" the Susvara with the Hypsos under 28 Volts (with the Oor, 24 is standard) and i can only sometimes hear a very very slight difference (i think i can hear it?) when i listen very very closely.
So people exaggerate as always like in every hobby, i try to not think about it too much...

I originally also planned to get the new "hyped" Gustard R23, but in the end i didn't want to wait another 2 months and i'm happy with mine now.


----------



## You Kay

Exekuhtor said:


> I bought my two Ferrums (look signature) for the Susvara, there is no way i'll buy another pricey amp in the near future, so that's what i'll use. Most of the posts indicate that it pairs well with a 1266, but then occasionally an user "hates" it, but on the other hand i read that some people "hate" the Susvara with the Hypsos under 28 Volts (with the Oor, 24 is standard) and i can only sometimes hear a very very slight difference (i think i can hear it?) when i listen very very closely.
> So people exaggerate as always like in every hobby, i try to not think about it too much...
> 
> I originally also planned to get the new "hyped" Gustard R23, but in the end i didn't want to wait another 2 months and i'm happy with mine now.


Completely agree with your comment on the exaggeration part. I hear far more differences in speaker setups. In headphones it’s always been subtle differences for me. Between mid-fi and Uber high end cans and electronics, the differences are not that big but it really depends on how much you’re invested in the hobby. Personally I buy the gear for the way it looks and makes me feel which is why I have the kit I have.


----------



## DJJEZ (Sep 19, 2022)

Havent seen much talk about ampsandsound amps in here with 1266TC but this is My fav pairing for the 1266TC so far. The ampsandsound red october.


----------



## karangovil

That looks beautiful. Are those Elrogs?

I have an EC Studio B incoming in a couple weeks for which I already have Elrog 300B Mo tubes ready to go. I plan to use a KG CFA3 for the 1266 though with a tube preamp.


----------



## paradoxper

DJJEZ said:


> Havent seen much talk about ampsandsound amps in here with 1266TC but this is My fav pairing for the 1266TC so far.


That modern 300B magic. Unstoppable.


----------



## You Kay (Sep 19, 2022)

Sorry posted twice for some strange reason


----------



## DJJEZ (Sep 19, 2022)

karangovil said:


> That looks beautiful. Are those Elrogs?
> 
> I have an EC Studio B incoming in a couple weeks for which I already have Elrog 300B Mo tubes ready to go. I plan to use a KG CFA3 for the 1266 though with a tube preamp.


Elrog 300B's yeh. I've also got elrog 5U4G recitifers incoming tomorrow so will be running 4/5 elrog tubes lol

I got on the elrog train thanks to @paradoxper


----------



## normie610

karangovil said:


> I plan to use a KG CFA3 for the 1266 though with a tube preamp.


This is THE way. It’ll be even better if the preamp is 300B based.


----------



## karangovil

normie610 said:


> This is THE way. It’ll be even better if the preamp is 300B based.


I'm going to first try the line outs on my Studio B which is 300B based but not sure how that's going to turn out. Otherwise I might have to look into a dedicated preamp.


----------



## karangovil

DJJEZ said:


> I got on the elrog train thanks to @paradoxper


I have @paradoxper to thank for the Elrog and CFA3 as well


----------



## normie610

karangovil said:


> I'm going to first try the line outs on my Studio B which is 300B based but not sure how that's going to turn out. Otherwise I might have to look into a dedicated preamp.


As long as the preamp chain on Studio B passes the signal through the 300B, I think it should be great.


----------



## jlbrach

karangovil said:


> I have @paradoxper to thank for the Elrog and CFA3 as well


yes, he got me into the cfa3 and I am glad he did


----------



## You Kay

Anybody managed to find a case for the 1266? Abyss should really sell the wooden box separatelynow that they no longer provide it with the purchase.


----------



## jaxt4r

Anyone knows where to find the used 1266 og version? Been addicted to the vocal of it.
Or anyone has one for sale?


----------



## Exekuhtor

jaxt4r said:


> Anyone knows where to find the used 1266 og version? Been addicted to the vocal of it.
> Or anyone has one for sale?


Damn, that's the oldest model.
I bought the Phi version a few days ago from the classified forum, chances are you will only find the OG after regular checking hifishark / other used market sites over the course of weeks / months, i guess if you really want it you can open a search thread in the classified forum (you may need more posts for that).

I read that the driver revision from the OG to the Phi was significant and from the Phi to the TC it's mostly "more resolving", so if you really want the OG it may take some time to find someone that has it in a good condition and parts with it.


----------



## filud

Has anyone compared AB-1266 Phi TC with Yggdrasil OG and Holo May KTE?
Would there be a significant improvement with May KTE?


----------



## deuter

Exekuhtor said:


> Damn, that's the oldest model.
> I bought the Phi version a few days ago from the classified forum, chances are you will only find the OG after regular checking hifishark / other used market sites over the course of weeks / months, i guess if you really want it you can open a search thread in the classified forum (you may need more posts for that).
> 
> I read that the driver revision from the OG to the Phi was significant and from the Phi to the TC it's mostly "more resolving", so if you really want the OG it may take some time to find someone that has it in a good condition and parts with it.


Driver revision was significant in the sense the phi is a lot more balanced.
The OG had more robust bass then the phi atleast that’s what every complained.
They bought most of the bass back with the TC but it’s still not OG.
I have an OG and happy with its performance, I don’t want to water down it’s robust sound to trade for more detail.
There is plenty of detail on OG, if I need anymore I can just get a Stax.


----------



## paradoxper

I don't know if going all DHT is wise, this is thunderous-the-more with TC


----------



## Exekuhtor

IT ARRIVED!

The first thing i notice is the fit, it's... weird...
Once you get it a adjusted it's "ok-ish", i still need more time to rate the sound and play with the fit (which affects the sound).
The bass is unreal punchy if you leave a gap.
The mids seems not that bad as i read (not sus level but not horrible, probably because of the phi revision)
The treble is shiny but not piercing.
I think it can get a bit fatiguing but it's engaging and overall a more aggressive headphone, exactly what i wanted, perfect contrast to the sus.
This thing wants to be played loud.

In what direction did you guys rotate the pads? Seam up? To the front? How much of an air gap do you leave?


----------



## PhazeCrive (Sep 23, 2022)

^^^
I had mine for about 8 months and I only now, last week, found out about its "detailed" mode with the frame toed in and the pads 2 notches inward from 12 o'clock, and the headphone pulled down and back on your head. This fixes everything, imo, because previously I'd have the air gap for the bass, but that acoustic position would always wash away the treble detail. And if I had more of a seal, the high frequency detail would pop through, but I lost all bass. The position I described gives you both bass slam, and treble detail. Wish I didn't have to figure this out so late, but hey it's like I have a new headphone now.

I thought the mids were fine previously, as I heard nothing lacking in them, but really locking in the center acoustic to where the treble and bass can come through effortlessly has showed me just how many flaws and glare there are in your music. Voices especially definitely sound whispier and crispier now. You hear this high frequency zing in voices your ears don't really pick up in real life, but I like that. Before this I was a basshead, now I think I am a treblehead--"a detail slut," as Joshua calls it. 

It's hard to measure how much of an air gap to leave, so I just reference it by going to an online tone generator and adjusting it until the high peak of the bass is 48-55hz and rolls off from there. Of course, more seal gives access to the lower, lower sub bass though, but you lose that slam that breathes life into music. After awhile of owning it, you do not need to use the tone generator; you just know when it's on correctly.


----------



## Bonddam (Sep 23, 2022)

filud said:


> Has anyone compared AB-1266 Phi TC with Yggdrasil OG and Holo May KTE?
> Would there be a significant improvement with May KTE?


You basically will know the hard way. I went through many and found warm DACs are my preferred and burr brown chip done right is my favorite. Then found too much was too much and super air was way in the wrong direction like the Manhattan 2. Wells Cipher was perfect balance and Holo was always good. I went with Woo WDS-1 and find that one the most appealing.


----------



## all2ofme

Still enjoying the delicious Phi TC I got from you, @Bonddam — thank you 🙏

Now that I've got the fit and amplification down, life could be worse!


----------



## kckfor

Is anyone aware of information on an abyss closed back headphone?


----------



## DJJEZ

kckfor said:


> Is anyone aware of information on an abyss closed back headphone?


Yes it's coming we just don't know when


----------



## kckfor

any info on the design; will it be like. Closed back Diana?


----------



## Ciggavelli

kckfor said:


> any info on the design; will it be like. Closed back Diana?


Yeah closed back Diana. I can’t wait for that.


----------



## simorag

How good is the AB-1266 at rendering wildly different genres and musical programs still amazes me after several years of ownership.
It is hard to imagine a better companion for eclectic listening sessions.

Nordic jazz pianism teaming up with Turkish folkloric suggestions, truly astonishing sonics, emotionally charged results.





Minimalistic electronica, with clean deep bass and a mesmerizing spatial cue sequence (courtesy of @stemiki).





First rate world music / jazz contamination, great rythmic drive, exceptional handling of the double bass from Texier: weight, articulation, extension, everything is there.





A marvel of a recording, with impossible dynamics and a presentation of instruments in space which has you projected in the hall in an almost supernatural way (try the Histoire du Soldat).


----------



## Ciggavelli

In that sharing spirit, this is some really great metal:


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> In that sharing spirit, this is some really great metal:


I was a bit underwhelmed. Need to suffer through another spin.

You need to post in the 'what are you listening to thread' so you can ping more recommendations.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 3, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> I was a bit underwhelmed. Need to suffer through another spin.
> 
> You need to post in the 'what are you listening to thread' so you can ping more recommendations.


Oh man, I love that album. I’ve listened to it a bunch of times and even bought some merch…lol.

I got one more you might like. I’ve also listened to this album a lot recently too:






I’ll check that listening thread out and post some things I’ve been liking.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> Oh man, I love that album. I’ve listened to it a bunch of times and even bought some merch…lol.
> 
> I got one more you might like. I’ve also listened to this album a lot recently too:
> 
> ...


This was better. I will give Phobophilic another listen now.

A little black metal and cello.


----------



## vonBaron

Amazing album with 1266!


----------



## pofofo

I`m looking at a SparkoS Aries to pair with my 1266 PHI TC. Does anyone have experience with that combo? 
I`m currently using a Bottlehead S.E.X. C4S and Atrox V2 with the 1266, but haven`t compared them to a higher tier amp.


----------



## Slim1970

pofofo said:


> I`m looking at a SparkoS Aries to pair with my 1266 PHI TC. Does anyone have experience with that combo?
> I`m currently using a Bottlehead S.E.X. C4S and Atrox V2 with the 1266, but haven`t compared them to a higher tier amp.


I tried it briefly when I had the Aries in home for a demo. The Aries didn't have enough drive to get the best out of the AB-1266 Phi TC's. The Aries was great with all my other headphones.


----------



## paradoxper

With sleepless nights in sight


----------



## rreynolds

Traded off the Diana TC & got something I think will stick around for a while. Really missed the 1266’s sound when I sold the Phi version last year. Thankfully that same visceral sound is back, better than ever. Haven’t taken it off my head since opening the box. Just a joy to listen to.


----------



## Exekuhtor

So, can you elaborate more on the difference between the Phi and the TC? I might trade the Phi in for the new version in the (far) future.
Is there more than " more detail"? (i don't care about it that much)


----------



## rreynolds

Exekuhtor said:


> So, can you elaborate more on the difference between the Phi and the TC? I might trade the Phi in for the new version in the (far) future.
> Is there more than " more detail"? (i don't care about it that much)


Almost seems like the Phi had just a hair more intensity in the bass, but there's definitely a resolution boost with the TC version. The leading edge of tones are more pronounced & vocal/cymbal decay is more controlled.


----------



## Exekuhtor

Hmm ok, i already have the new TC pads & headband so the price jump is probably not (yet) justified. Maybe when i'm done with the journey and have settled completly which headphones i'll keep i can think about it.


----------



## deuter

Exekuhtor said:


> Hmm ok, i already have the new TC pads & headband so the price jump is probably not (yet) justified. Maybe when i'm done with the journey and have settled completly which headphones i'll keep i can think about it.


If bass is something you are keen to keep, try and hear the OG, it’s bass is astonishing.


----------



## pofofo

Slim1970 said:


> I tried it briefly when I had the Aries in home for a demo. The Aries didn't have enough drive to get the best out of the AB-1266 Phi TC's. The Aries was great with all my other headphones.



Thanks for answering. I’ve tried the Sparkos with the 1266 a couple of days now, and it blows my other amps (Bottlehead SEX C4S and Atrox V2) out the water. No real suprise there, but what amps are better than the Sparkos for the 1266?


----------



## Slim1970

pofofo said:


> Thanks for answering. I’ve tried the Sparkos with the 1266 a couple of days now, and it blows my other amps (Bottlehead SEX C4S and Atrox V2) out the water. No real suprise there, but what amps are better than the Sparkos for the 1266?


XI Audio Formula S, HeadAmp GS-X MK2, Luxman P-750u, Burson Soloist 3X GT with upgraded op-amps, Trafomatic Head 2 are some of the one I’ve tried and liked with the AB-1266 TC’s.


----------



## Exekuhtor

Isn't the #1 amp for the 1266 considered to be the WA33?
It's a buttload of money but every review is like "if you own a 1266 get a WA33, if you own a WA33 get a 1266"...


----------



## DJJEZ

Exekuhtor said:


> Isn't the #1 amp for the 1266 considered to be the WA33?
> It's a buttload of money but every review is like "if you own a 1266 get a WA33, if you own a WA33 get a 1266"...


It's one of the best amps for the 1266tc for sure as the synergy is great but there are plenty other tube amps that are amazing with 1266tc as well.


----------



## paradoxper

Let the doom and sorrow wash over.

Especially enticing, John Bradley: when the drums kick, they're palpable


----------



## Ciggavelli

paradoxper said:


> Let the doom and sorrow wash over.
> 
> Especially enticing, John Bradley: when the drums kick, they're palpable


Doom and sorrow is right up my alley. Will listen later


----------



## tawmizzzz (Oct 13, 2022)

Just joined the Abyss fam and its definitely a fun headphone to listen to rap, metal and some EDM with. Thunderous bass, massive staging, and astounding resolution [truly concert-like]. Not sure how I feel about the timbre and overall coherency, but haven't heard anything else like it.

I was also hoping all the heavyweight discomfort issues were exaggerated, but even all my shoulder shrugs at the gym aren't sparing me the pain LOL.

I am driving it off the Ferrum stack which I've heard many aren't fans of, but can imagine it'd scale even nicer with a TOTL tube AMP. I haven't even bothered taking the SC cable off but will compare versus stock later.


----------



## deuter

tawmizzzz said:


> Just joined the Abyss fam and its definitely a fun headphone to listen to rap, metal and some EDM with. Thunderous bass, massive staging, and astounding resolution [truly concert-like]. Not sure how I feel about the timbre and overall coherency, but haven't heard anything else like it.
> 
> I was also hoping all the heavyweight discomfort issues were exaggerated, but even all my shoulder shrugs at the gym aren't sparing me the pain LOL.
> 
> I am driving it off the Ferrum stack which I've heard many aren't fans of, but can imagine it'd scale even nicer with a TOTL tube AMP. I haven't even bothered taking the SC cable off but will compare versus stock later.


See if you can get your hands on a Formula S.


----------



## timeslip

tawmizzzz said:


> Just joined the Abyss fam and its definitely a fun headphone to listen to rap, metal and some EDM with. Thunderous bass, massive staging, and astounding resolution [truly concert-like]. Not sure how I feel about the timbre and overall coherency, but haven't heard anything else like it.
> 
> I was also hoping all the heavyweight discomfort issues were exaggerated, but even all my shoulder shrugs at the gym aren't sparing me the pain LOL.
> 
> I am driving it off the Ferrum stack which I've heard many aren't fans of, but can imagine it'd scale even nicer with a TOTL tube AMP. I haven't even bothered taking the SC cable off but will compare versus stock later.



Get yourself some nuggets.  It helps a lot for me

https://www.amazon.com/Dekoni-Audio...prefix=headphone+cushion+nuget,aps,125&sr=8-7


----------



## pofofo

tawmizzzz said:


> Just joined the Abyss fam and its definitely a fun headphone to listen to rap, metal and some EDM with. Thunderous bass, massive staging, and astounding resolution [truly concert-like]. Not sure how I feel about the timbre and overall coherency, but haven't heard anything else like it.
> 
> I was also hoping all the heavyweight discomfort issues were exaggerated, but even all my shoulder shrugs at the gym aren't sparing me the pain LOL.
> 
> I am driving it off the Ferrum stack which I've heard many aren't fans of, but can imagine it'd scale even nicer with a TOTL tube AMP. I haven't even bothered taking the SC cable off but will compare versus stock later.


I used about a week to adjust them to my head. When I first got them I thought "These will NEVER fit me correctly" but I bought a big pack of O-rings, lightly bent the frame and adjusted the pads a bunch of times and now they fit great and are actually very comfortable. I actually have each pad adjusted differently and that`s how I got the gap on each side to be the same. 

I never had any problems with the weight itself though, been an Audeze man for years.


----------



## Since1991

I'm looking to grab a used TC in the near future, but is there a way to visually tell the difference between AB1266, the AB1266 Phi, The AB1266 Phi CC, and the AB1266 Phi TC?


----------



## pofofo

Since1991 said:


> I'm looking to grab a used TC in the near future, but is there a way to visually tell the difference between AB1266, the AB1266 Phi, The AB1266 Phi CC, and the AB1266 Phi TC?


The TC have «Total Consciousness» stamped on the drivers side, behind the pads


----------



## rreynolds

Since1991 said:


> I'm looking to grab a used TC in the near future, but is there a way to visually tell the difference between AB1266, the AB1266 Phi, The AB1266 Phi CC, and the AB1266 Phi TC?


The 1266 Phi TC is coated in ceramic. Looks matte grey compared to the gloss black on the older models.


----------



## DJJEZ

Since1991 said:


> I'm looking to grab a used TC in the near future, but is there a way to visually tell the difference between AB1266, the AB1266 Phi, The AB1266 Phi CC, and the AB1266 Phi TC?


Remove the pads and look underneath. It's printed on the metal


----------



## ufospls2 (Oct 14, 2022)

Since1991 said:


> I'm looking to grab a used TC in the near future, but is there a way to visually tell the difference between AB1266, the AB1266 Phi, The AB1266 Phi CC, and the AB1266 Phi TC?


The #1 best way is to get the serial number and contact Abyss directly. Below are only general guidelines, and there are things which can confuse matters.

Typically

AB1266 - Shiny black frame. Non Perforated pads. Says "AB1266" on the driver baffle. Original models have a flat torq screw (these are unusual and rare) and then the phillips type torq screw on most models. Note, some original models were upgraded to Phi drivers, which is always noted on the driver baffle. There have been some fake originals coming out of Asia, and at least one has sold on the used market as a supposedly real model. Do your homework if purchasing a used pair of originals.

AB1266 Phi - New driver. For most of the production run, Shiny black frame. Non Perforated Pads. The Phi driver baffle is matte black and does have the Phi sign beside the AB1266 lettering (present on both upgraded original models, and Phi models.) Later in the Phi run, they switched to a matte black type paint for the headphone frame.

AB1266 Phi CC - Same driver as the Phi. "CC" denotes ceramic coating. This is a somewhat grey looking finish for the frame. The CC models also introduced the perforated thicker pads. These pads are available as aftermarket from Abyss, and may also be found on original AB1266 models, and AB1266 Phi models as people did upgrade to them at the time.

AB1266 Phi TC - New Driver. "TC" denotes the "Total Consciousness" meaning. The TC are either the same, or an extremely similar (I'm not sure if its exactly the same) colour of the ceramic frame coating as the "CC" model. The "TC" driver baffle notes the "Total Consciousness" meaning, and you should be able to tell by taking the pads off and having a look.

Of course, I'm not an official Abyss spokesperson, thats just the knowledge I have and would recommend checking with Abyss if in any doubt.


----------



## Homrsimson

Question for the raal hsa 1b amp owners: are you running the tc exclusively through the ribbon input via the adapter? And are you using hp instead of sr1? Assuming also hp instead of speakers? To me that sounds better than the conventional hp input. Honestly my CFA sounds better so I’ll probably use that more with the TC anyway, but want to ensure I know what settings folks use for this amp. Thanks


----------



## Homrsimson

Homrsimson said:


> Question for the raal hsa 1b amp owners: are you running the tc exclusively through the ribbon input via the adapter? And are you using hp instead of sr1? Assuming also hp instead of speakers? To me that sounds better than the conventional hp input. Honestly my CFA sounds better so I’ll probably use that more with the TC anyway, but want to ensure I know what settings folks use for this amp. Thanks


Nevermind, torq literally wrote a bible on this subject. Bless the man:

https://forum.headphones.com/t/raal-requisite-hsa-1b-switch-drive-amplifier-review/9973


----------



## rreynolds (Oct 15, 2022)

Received the Superconductor for the 1266 TC and MAN. Probably the largest difference I've heard from a cable in my experience. Just a general improvement across the board. Bass is fuller, treble is way more lifelike than stock, and soundstage seems to have grown just a bit. It makes the stock cable sound tinny/metallic in the treble regions by comparison.


----------



## mat.1

My 1266 TC with Super Conductor Sound metallic now, i don’t know what went wrong.
i am using it with Wo WA 33, My ear pad is sticky Now after 2 year +.
Is the sticky Ear pad make the sound metallic ?


----------



## deuter

mat.1 said:


> My 1266 TC with Super Conductor Sound metallic now, i don’t know what went wrong.
> i am using it with Wo WA 33, My ear pad is sticky Now after 2 year +.
> Is the sticky Ear pad make the sound metallic ?


Take a break from that system.
Listen to another pair of headphones and possibly different amp for sometime as that will cleanse your hearing.
The number of times I have had a wow moment after taking a break of over a month.


----------



## IanB52

deuter said:


> See if you can get your hands on a Formula S.


I actually preferred the Ferrum stack to XI Stack with Diana TC. Less ear fatigue and more punch. I don't really understand why people malign this amp, except maybe they are using it without the Hypsos. 

Formula S is good too, with great control, but a bit more analytical and sharp in the treble and restrained in the bass. More height, less depth.


----------



## DJJEZ (Oct 19, 2022)

IanB52 said:


> I actually preferred the Ferrum stack to XI Stack with Diana TC. Less ear fatigue and more punch. I don't really understand why people malign this amp, except maybe they are using it without the Hypsos.
> 
> Formula S is good too, with great control, but a bit more analytical and sharp in the treble and restrained in the bass. More height, less depth.


I honestly think the formula s/p has better synergy with 1266TC. (I used to own diana phi and diana TC)
The Formula S/P has the best bass of any solid state amp (from all the ones I've heard) with the abyss 1266TC. It seems to have a massive bass boost for 1266TC but not other headphones. For me the Ferrum stack was more fatiguing and sharper with the 1266TC especially in vocals. The formula s/p synergy with 1266TC is warmer and smoother and the only major negative I would say is the soundstage width is pretty average.


----------



## IanB52 (Oct 19, 2022)

DJJEZ said:


> I honestly think the formula s/p has better synergy with 1266TC. (I used to own diana phi and diana TC)
> The Formula S/P has the best bass of any solid state amp (from all the ones I've heard) with the abyss 1266TC. It seems to have a massive bass boost for 1266TC but not other headphones. For me the Ferrum stack was more fatiguing and sharper with the 1266TC especially in vocals. The formula s/p synergy with 1266TC is warmer and smoother and the only major negative I would say is the soundstage width is pretty average.


I'll take your word for it. I understand it was tuned with 1266 in mind, while the Broadway was intended for the Diana.

With the DTC and XI Stack I couldn't listen to rock music because the top end was quite fatiguing, and the bass was very reserved compared to the Ferrum.

The Formula S/Powerman did however do excellent vocals, esp on DSD tracks.


----------



## DJJEZ

IanB52 said:


> I'll take your word for it. I understand it was tuned with 1266 in mind, while the Broadway was intended for the Diana.
> 
> With the DTC and XI Stack I couldn't listen to rock music because the top end was quite fatiguing, and the bass was very reserved compared to the Ferrum.
> 
> The Formula S/Powerman did however do excellent vocals, esp on DSD


any plans to get a 1266TC?


----------



## IanB52

DJJEZ said:


> any plans to get a 1266TC?


I've definitely been thinking about it, but struggling with some neck problems atm and 1266 seems like would be too much. Also, finally got my Susvara sounding good, so I can wait. I would love more impactful bass and space.


----------



## BassicScience (Oct 19, 2022)

IanB52 said:


> I've definitely been thinking about it, but struggling with some neck problems atm and 1266 seems like would be too much. Also, finally got my Susvara sounding good, so I can wait. I would love more impactful bass and space.


More bass and space for your Susvara? A speaker amp is just what the doctor ordered! Far and away the best bang for the buck is a Purifi class D amp, along the lines of:

SOTA power amp for $1200

You can use your Oor as a preamp initially, and then upgrade as desired. Nice DAC, by the way...


----------



## IanB52

BassicScience said:


> More bass and space for your Susvara? A speaker amp is just what the doctor ordered! Far and away the best bang for the buck is a Purifi class D amp, along the lines of:
> 
> SOTA power amp for $1200
> 
> You can use your Oor as a preamp initially, and then upgrade as desired. Nice DAC, by the way...


Man, that is a lot of power! I'd be scared with volume control, ha!

My HM-1 should be arriving one of these days, and then we'll see where the path leads. 

Yes, the DA2 is a fantastic DAC. I'm probably the only one out there who started building a system from his DAC...but it is finally turning out to sound truly impressive.


----------



## BassicScience

IanB52 said:


> Man, that is a lot of power! I'd be scared with volume control, ha!
> 
> My HM-1 should be arriving one of these days, and then we'll see where the path leads.
> 
> Yes, the DA2 is a fantastic DAC. I'm probably the only one out there who started building a system from his DAC...but it is finally turning out to sound truly impressive.


That amp has got a 3-way gain switch (I'd recommend LOW). FWIW, I once made a wiring error and fed my Susvara full power (RECORD OUT from my preamp) for about 5-10 seconds! Believe it or not, it survived. The volume level was _unreal_. Anyhoo, a bit OT for this thread. Hope you find sonic nirvana by whatever path.


----------



## sahmen (Oct 19, 2022)

BassicScience said:


> That amp has got a 3-way gain switch (I'd recommend LOW). FWIW, I once made a wiring error and fed my Susvara full power (RECORD OUT from my preamp) for about 5-10 seconds! Believe it or not, it survived. The volume level was _unreal_. Anyhoo, a bit OT for this thread. Hope you find sonic nirvana by whatever path.


Surely that is a lot of brawn, but what about refinements.  Is the sonic product of the Purifi amp on the Susvara as refined as that of your NAD M22 V2, for example, even if one is using a preamp in both cases?


----------



## BassicScience

sahmen said:


> Surely that is a lot of brawn, but what about refinements.  Is the sonic product of the Purifi amp on the Susvara as refined as that of your NAD M22 V2, for example, even if one is using a preamp in both cases?


Purifi is a minor refinement on Hypex NCore, on which the M22 V2 is based. Both were designed by Bruno Putzeys, and they sound quite similar in my experience, as would be expected. As such, specific input buffers and preamps should affect the sonic results more than choosing between Purifi and Hypex. I simply linked one of the most affordable alternatives among many. Not sure how these amps would sound with the 1266 TC, but it seems many of the cognoscenti here prefer tube power amps.


----------



## jadenh (Oct 20, 2022)

IanB52 said:


> I've definitely been thinking about it, but struggling with some neck problems atm and 1266 seems like would be too much. Also, finally got my Susvara sounding good, so I can wait. I would love more impactful bass and space.


Yeah, I hate to say it, but 1266 at 640g is a bit too heavy... (Abyss might need to cut down on the excessive use of metal IMHO) I started to have neck pain (for the first time in my life!) most probably because of it. Unless you have a neck as strong as Schwarzenegger's, it may not be a good idea to wear it for long, should you decided to grab a pair. TBH it looks and feels like a torture device lol If I didn't audition it out of curiosity I most probably wouldn't have even considered it; it's such an exciting, non-fatigue-sounding complement to some other more neutral headphones.

I'm still patiently waiting for my Stax to salvage my neck  Planars and their magnets man, not sure if manufacturers can ever make them comfortably lighter for long listening sessions.


----------



## Womaz

jadenh said:


> Yeah, I hate to say it, but 1266 at 640g is a bit too heavy... (Abyss might need to cut down on the excessive use of metal IMHO) I started to have neck pain (for the first time in my life!) most probably because of it. Unless you have a neck as strong as Schwarzenegger's, it may not be a good idea to wear it for long, should you decided to grab a pair. TBH it looks and feels like a torture device lol If I didn't audition it out of curiosity I most probably wouldn't have even considered it; it's such an exciting, non-fatigue-sounding complement to some other more neutral headphones.
> 
> I'm still patiently waiting for my Stax to salvage my neck  Planars and their magnets man, not sure if manufacturers can ever make them comfortably lighter for long listening sessions.


Honest it may be the way you are wearing them? 
I know they weigh a lot but to me they place less strain on me than my HEKs which are considerably lighter.


----------



## paradoxper

Womaz said:


> Honest it may be the way you are wearing them?
> I know they weigh a lot but to me they place less strain on me than my HEKs which are considerably lighter.


I think it may just be the way they weigh on him. Which means he'll need to make the concession for one of the Meze.


----------



## jadenh

Womaz said:


> Honest it may be the way you are wearing them?
> I know they weigh a lot but to me they place less strain on me than my HEKs which are considerably lighter.


Mostly the weight, but I also don’t find the ear pads comfortable. But I understand Abyss may have designed 1266 TC in this awkward way so that the speakers are positioned for better sound so I’m willing to make some concessions.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

AB1266 was designed to float, not clamp to your head, The headphone should be adjusted so the pads just barely touch your head.  Note this also adjusts damping of the driver, your setting fit for comfort and to match your amp, music, and tastes in bass. Check out the AB1266 set-up video…


----------



## normie610

Abyss Headphones said:


> AB1266 was designed to float, not clamp to your head, The headphone should be adjusted so the pads just barely touch your head.  Note this also adjusts damping of the driver, your setting fit for comfort and to match your amp, music, and tastes in bass. Check out the AB1266 set-up video…



Yes it feels light since I wear them “floating” like you said and quite comfortable. It also provides the most balanced sound to my ears by wearing them like that.


----------



## F208Frank (Oct 21, 2022)

Abyss TC1266...

Flames.


----------



## You Kay (Oct 21, 2022)

I tried the headphones on for the first time for about ten minutes. I didn’t find them uncomfortable or heavy at all. I need to test for longer but just  thought I’d share early impressions


----------



## pofofo

Between XI Audio Broadway and Headamp GS-X mini, which would be best for the 1266? 
I`m currently in the marked for a new amp, but it`s not that easy trying to decide, not that many amps I can demo in Norway you see.


----------



## normie610

Gorgeous and built like a tank


----------



## Fibre101 (Oct 23, 2022)

Will the msrp ever go down back to where it was before?


----------



## kawhia

Fibre101 said:


> Will the msrp every go down back to where it was before?


Not very likely. Worldwide inflation will continue for some time. Interest rates are going up and have to catch up with inflation. I am no economist but I can’t see prices going down again.


----------



## F208Frank (Oct 24, 2022)

What’s a good closed back headphone that complements the TC as a secondary headphone other than the upcoming TC closed back?

Got a kid now so dealing with moments where closed back would be ideal.

Travel potential and easy to power would be a plus but at the end of the day SQ is main importance.


----------



## rangerid

F208Frank said:


> What’s a good closed back headphone that complements the tc as secondary headphone other than the upcoming tc closed back?
> 
> Got a kid now so dealing with moments where closed back would be ideal.
> 
> ...


I like the Focal Stellia, complements the TCs well. It's a warmer tuning with excellent bass & dynamics and the most agreeable, non metallicy timbre Focals imo, better than the Utopias. Soundstage is also nice for a closed back, nothing like TCs but not claustrophobic or anything. They're also very easy to drive off a phone or DAP and does a decent job at isolating.


----------



## Ciggavelli

F208Frank said:


> What’s a good closed back headphone that complements the tc as secondary headphone other than the upcoming tc closed back?
> 
> Got a kid now so dealing with moments where closed back would be ideal.
> 
> ...


Hifiman HE-R10P (not the D version.  I have the P version and it’s my go to work headphones), ZMF Verite Closed (though I’ve owned and sold it twice), ES Labs ES-R10 (Sony R10 Replica that sounds very good), DCA Stealth (a divisive pair of headphones, but I like it. It has great sub bass, but only moderate levels of mid bass).


----------



## PhazeCrive

Been revisiting some old games I used to play as a kid. Hearing the soundtracks for the first time on a headphone and not some crappy TV speaker is really interesting.

I never knew this track from Ape Escape (not a virus) was so bassy because you literally cannot hear it from a TV speaker. For this track you'll want a bit of a gap and some volume.


----------



## vonBaron

rangerid said:


> I like the Focal Stellia, complements the TCs well. It's a warmer tuning with excellent bass & dynamics and the most agreeable, non metallicy timbre Focals imo, better than the Utopias. Soundstage is also nice for a closed back, nothing like TCs but not claustrophobic or anything. They're also very easy to drive off a phone or DAP and does a decent job at isolating.


Stellia is claustrophobic, it's soundstage almost don't exist...


----------



## Hiker816

So, it's possible I have been very financially irresponsible this year.  I hope you have room for more company in this thread!  First impressions after about 12 minutes of listening (in other words, kind of meaningless):  these things are really fun! Clarity and speed are better than I expected out of the box (I figured the SR1a's advantage here would be more stark).  Also, my CFA3 has a staggering amount of power--balanced input from DAVE, I am at 8 o'clock on low gain, with my DAVE outputting at -8db.  I expected to have more difficulty driving them.


----------



## ufospls2

Nice, enjoy them! Make sure to experiment with the pad positioning (I use a couple positions rotated forward, but everyone is different) and overall fit. Abyss has a couple videos detailing fitment on their youtube channel if you are confused at any point.


----------



## paradoxper

Hiker816 said:


> So, it's possible I have been very financially irresponsible this year.  I hope you have room for more company in this thread!  First impressions after about 12 minutes of listening (in other words, kind of meaningless):  these things are really fun! Clarity and speed are better than I expected out of the box (I figured the SR1a's advantage here would be more stark).  Also, my CFA3 has a staggering amount of power--balanced input from DAVE, I am at 8 o'clock on low gain, with my DAVE outputting at -8db.  I expected to have more difficulty driving them.


Yes! I can't wait until you piece everything together with Cabernet!


----------



## dude120

Hiker816 said:


> So, it's possible I have been very financially irresponsible this year.  I hope you have room for more company in this thread!  First impressions after about 12 minutes of listening (in other words, kind of meaningless):  these things are really fun! Clarity and speed are better than I expected out of the box (I figured the SR1a's advantage here would be more stark).  Also, my CFA3 has a staggering amount of power--balanced input from DAVE, I am at 8 o'clock on low gain, with my DAVE outputting at -8db.  I expected to have more difficulty driving them.


It's seriously impressive off the cfa3 isn't it?

I too grabbed a 1266 and a CFA3 this year (rip wallet).

Haven't had a chance to try the sr1a off of the cfa quite yet - but the susvara was quite good off of it as well


----------



## eee1111

Hiker816 said:


> So, it's possible I have been very financially irresponsible this year.  I hope you have room for more company in this thread!  First impressions after about 12 minutes of listening (in other words, kind of meaningless):  these things are really fun! Clarity and speed are better than I expected out of the box (I figured the SR1a's advantage here would be more stark).  Also, my CFA3 has a staggering amount of power--balanced input from DAVE, I am at 8 o'clock on low gain, with my DAVE outputting at -8db.  I expected to have more difficulty driving them.


no more wooden box is a shame


----------



## Ciggavelli

Hiker816 said:


> So, it's possible I have been very financially irresponsible this year.  I hope you have room for more company in this thread!  First impressions after about 12 minutes of listening (in other words, kind of meaningless):  these things are really fun! Clarity and speed are better than I expected out of the box (I figured the SR1a's advantage here would be more stark).  Also, my CFA3 has a staggering amount of power--balanced input from DAVE, I am at 8 o'clock on low gain, with my DAVE outputting at -8db.  I expected to have more difficulty driving them.


Welcome to the club  

You got lucky with the headband too.  A lot of us have the same headband, but there are "waves" on the bottom side, which makes it look lumpy and ugly.


----------



## Abyss Headphones (Oct 26, 2022)

eee1111 said:


> no more wooden box is a shame


Wood box is included with AB1266 Complete version (substitutes Superconductor HP cable for stock and adds the heavy leather carry case).

https://abyss-headphones.com/collections/abyss-headphones/products/abyss-ab-1266-phi-headphone


----------



## eee1111 (Oct 25, 2022)

Abyss Headphones said:


> Wood box is included with AB1266 Complete version (substitutes Superconductor HP cable for stock and adds the heavy leather carry case).


yeah and its 9 grand for the wooden box a leather bag and a superconductor cable

not only that but you raised the price 1,000 not long ago and the TC could have been had with a wooden box for 4,000 usd

I love the headphone but y'all crazy (imo)


----------



## F208Frank (Oct 27, 2022)

Abyss headphone stand, my favorite part is definitely the wood texture, my least favorite part was the price, but can not deny quality.

As I mentioned prior, I always felt the stands for the TC headphones were always so so at best, including the Rooms one. The rooms one, one screw gets a little loose over time and you have to retighten. 

I tried a few universal stands and the peach tree by audioquest was great functionally but the build was so so making the 2 bars wobble a bit sometimes.


----------



## deuter

F208Frank said:


> Abyss headphone stand, my favorite part is definitely the wood texture, my least favorite part was the price, but can not deny quality.
> 
> As I mentioned prior, I always felt the stands for the TC headphones were always so so at best, including the Rooms one. The rooms one, one screw gets a little loose over time and you have to retighten.
> 
> I tried a few universal stands and the peach tree by audioquest was great functionally but the build was so so making the 2 bars wobble a bit sometimes.


Nice, can we see some close up photos.


----------



## paradoxper

F208Frank said:


> Abyss headphone stand, my favorite part is definitely the wood texture, my least favorite part was the price, but can not deny quality.
> 
> As I mentioned prior, I always felt the stands for the TC headphones were always so so at best, including the Rooms one. The rooms one, one screw gets a little loose over time and you have to retighten.
> 
> I tried a few universal stands and the peach tree by audioquest was great functionally but the build was so so making the 2 bars wobble a bit sometimes.


No. I'll use my Moko stands. I can't stand the design choice to continue stressing the only failure points with the o-rings.
I rather wait for a Chinese ROOMs clone, to be honest.


----------



## F208Frank

deuter said:


> Nice, can we see some close up photos.


----------



## Womaz

No stand for me ……yet 😀


----------



## Trance_Gott

Womaz said:


> No stand for me ……yet 😀


Niimbus there is no better amp for the 1266 TC! I gave up I heared 20 other amps no contest vs Niimbus. This is German world class technics!


----------



## Womaz

Trance_Gott said:


> Niimbus there is no better amp for the 1266 TC! I gave up I heared 20 other amps no contest vs Niimbus. This is German world class technics!


Yes I am absolutely delighted with it . I am no expert and i have only owned 5 headphone amps in my lifetime but the Niimbus is by far the best


----------



## vonBaron

Im Niimbus fan too but im not blind, WA33 is better.


----------



## Trance_Gott

vonBaron said:


> Im Niimbus fan too but im not blind, WA33 is better.


Tubes have coloration I gave them up many years ago. Solid state is the way I go!


----------



## vonBaron

WA33 have less coloration than Enleum 23R for example.


----------



## rreynolds

Trance_Gott said:


> Niimbus there is no better amp for the 1266 TC! I gave up I heared 20 other amps no contest vs Niimbus. This is German world class technics!


I've been kicking around upgrading my Burson Soloist GT for a Niimbus US 5 PRO, just not sure how much of an upgrade it'd be. Curious to hear from others if they've compared these 2.


----------



## F208Frank

Wasn't trying to photo bomb or intend more than the first original photo but since someone asked for close ups, passing by my room I felt I had to oblige. 

I do feel I would prefer the metal part to be suspended over the pad, but overall not too big of deal.

Happy listening guys.


----------



## ahossam

vonBaron said:


> WA33 have less coloration than Enleum 23R for example.


I agreed with this with WA33 standard, but don't know with WA33 Elite, according from what I've read Elite is more tubey sound.


----------



## Pansbjorne

Anyone have experience with both the Phi and the Phi TC? Searching for comparisons has been a pain since they both have Phi in the name lol


----------



## DMITRIY R

rreynolds said:


> I've been kicking around upgrading my Burson Soloist GT for a Niimbus US 5 PRO, just not sure how much of an upgrade it'd be. Curious to hear from others if they've compared these 2.


Niimbus and Violectric HPA 550 give better control of low frequencies, the number of low frequencies is slightly less than that of the Soloist GT+Super Сharger 5A . The Soloist has more sub-bass, but lower frequency control is worse and the stage is slightly wider.


----------



## rreynolds

Pansbjorne said:


> Anyone have experience with both the Phi and the Phi TC? Searching for comparisons has been a pain since they both have Phi in the name lol


I've owned both. Phi TC is more resolving, but the Phi is more authoritative in the bass and honestly sounded a wee bit bigger in the soundstage department imo. The superconductor actually adds some of what I loved about the Phi to the Phi TC. Thicker, meatier sound.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ahossam said:


> I agreed with this with WA33 standard, but don't know with WA33 Elite, according from what I've read Elite is more tubey sound.


I had the WA33 standard and currently own the WA33 Elite JPS, and no the Elite version isn’t more tubey


----------



## F208Frank

Ciggavelli said:


> I had the WA33 standard and currently own the WA33 Elite JPS, and no the Elite version isn’t more tubey


I only had the elite in the past for short while. Though it sounded great I prefer SS for its simplicity. 

Whats main difference between regular vs elite?


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 28, 2022)

F208Frank said:


> I only had the elite in the past for short while. Though it sounded great I prefer SS for its simplicity.
> 
> Whats main difference between regular vs elite?


It’s been a while since I’ve had the standard, but a more holographic sound is one thing I remember.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 28, 2022)

F208Frank said:


> Abyss headphone stand, my favorite part is definitely the wood texture, my least favorite part was the price, but can not deny quality.
> 
> As I mentioned prior, I always felt the stands for the TC headphones were always so so at best, including the Rooms one. The rooms one, one screw gets a little loose over time and you have to retighten.
> 
> I tried a few universal stands and the peach tree by audioquest was great functionally but the build was so so making the 2 bars wobble a bit sometimes.


I like the stand, but $500 for that is outrageous, and I say this as somebody who owns the $300 Focal stand and the $400 1266 Abyss Rooms Stand. It does look nice though, but it still stresses the o-rings. It’d be great for the Diana’s though.  That price seems crazy for what it is though.


----------



## simorag

Here are some great recordings that allow the AB-1266 to deploy their technical prowess at full steam.

This is a challenging experimental jazz disc, where the detail retrieval, the speed, the imaging capabilities of the Abyss are functional to enjoying the intricate interplay between the musicians. Double bass exentsion and articulation, and atmospheric, large but cohesive staging are also on full display.






One of the most impressive modern orchestral recordings of Mahler's 3rd, an uncommon combination of technical, musical and interpretative excellence.
The AB-1266 is capable of creating a massive soundscape, way beyond the ears, and with proportional, layered depth. Their clarity and transparency enables an effortless reading of the score, and with the help of the right chain - and of the Superconductor cable - the beautiful strings tone of the Budapest Festival symphony orchestra is aptly reproduced. Huge dynamics swings are one of the highights of this composition, and they are delivered with scale and weight.





A milestone of experimental rock, sure not an audiophile recording by modern standard. Still a very compelling experience, and the AB-1266 make all work in the mix and mastering session so apparent and valid even after 50 years from the release. Meadow Meal is my favorite track.   





A minimalistic recording in a very large venue, these are perfect conditions for the most spectacular display of the AB-1266 spatial projection capabilities.
The combination of size, cohesiveness and positioning accuracy is outsdanding.

This album is warm, sensuous, and the Abyss puts you in a state of pure spellbinding.


----------



## F208Frank

simorag said:


> Here are some great recordings that allow the AB-1266 to deploy their technical prowess at full steam.
> 
> This is a challenging experimental jazz disc, where the detail retrieval, the speed, the imaging capabilities of the Abyss are functional to enjoying the intricate interplay between the musicians. Double bass exentsion and articulation, and atmospheric, large but cohesive staging are also on full display.
> 
> ...


Absolutely wonderful to have you in the community, in so many different ways.


----------



## montanari

Bello faust


----------



## Smallpie

Thinking about getting a 1266 and I already have a schiit Ragnarok as well as two tube amps Dna Stratus (1.8watts) and Triode Labs finale f138 (6 watts?). Do you think these amps will be good enough? 

Was thinking about grabbing a Cayin iha6 or a first watt speaker amp and connect using a speaker to headphone adapter box. Wells audio milo was interesting to me as well.


----------



## bfin3

Smallpie said:


> Thinking about getting a 1266 and I already have a schiit Ragnarok as well as two tube amps Dna Stratus (1.8watts) and Triode Labs finale f138 (6 watts?). Do you think these amps will be good enough?
> 
> Was thinking about grabbing a Cayin iha6 or a first watt speaker amp and connect using a speaker to headphone adapter box. Wells audio milo was interesting to me as well.


The Stratus will struggle but sound ok, the finale will be fine and the Ragnarok has more than enough juice.


----------



## jjshin23

Stratus sounds good but the bass just doesn’t have the weight. It will get loud but not visceral like a good powered amp like the First Watt. The Rag should be enough power but may not get the best out of the 1266. Have a Pass Lab amp which was good but the CFA3 really takes it to another level.


----------



## Smallpie

Which pass labs do you have?


----------



## Sp12er3

Huh... So linus actually Followed DMS' recommendation and bought the 1266 Phi TC... 

To


Also, him finding the worse of Audiophile Snakeoils, Sticker filled Network Switch with glued screws to bits. 
Linus isn't averse to good audio, he is a fan of Sennheiser, used their IE 8-80-800-900 as his old daily and daily drive HD600, even swore he'd buy the new Orpheus if only its on limited run, but yeah this hobby has a knack to make a laugh out of itself.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

Very nicely written review of AB1266 Phi TC in AudioKey Reviews Magazine...

https://www.audiokeyreviews.com/the-reviews/abyss-ab1266-phi-tc


----------



## paradoxper

Abyss Headphones said:


> Very nicely written review of AB1266 Phi TC in AudioKey Reviews Magazine...
> 
> https://www.audiokeyreviews.com/the-reviews/abyss-ab1266-phi-tc


Who is this dude?
Dense and referential. Very well done.


----------



## Smallpie

Ok, so I just bought a 1266. what’s the best amp I could get for around $2k that’s better than my schiit Ragnarok? Slightly warm neutral.


----------



## ufospls2

Smallpie said:


> Ok, so I just bought a 1266. what’s the best amp I could get for around $2k that’s better than my schiit Ragnarok? Slightly warm neutral.


https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649914298-simaudio-moon-430had-headphone-amplifier-with-dac/

He might be willing to ship down to you. Very good match with the 1266. I haven't heard the Ragnarok with the 1266. Ragnarok would definitely have enough power but I'm not sure about its sound signature and matching with Abyss. I know Abyss also like the 430 from Simaudio. Its a bit long in the tooth in terms of the current amp market, but at used pricing its much easier to recommend vs. its MSRP (which imo, is a bit much.)


----------



## Womaz

Abyss Headphones said:


> Very nicely written review of AB1266 Phi TC in AudioKey Reviews Magazine...
> 
> https://www.audiokeyreviews.com/the-reviews/abyss-ab1266-phi-tc


This could possibly be the best review of any Hi-Fi product I have ever read.
WARNING - only read this if you either have the 1266 or have the cash to buy it 😀😀 .


----------



## UntilThen

Womaz said:


> This could possibly be the best review of any Hi-Fi product I have ever read.
> WARNING - only read this if you either have the 1266 or have the cash to buy it 😀😀 .



Interesting read and I am not shy to read it. Nothing faze me.


----------



## jjshin23

Smallpie said:


> Ok, so I just bought a 1266. what’s the best amp I could get for around $2k that’s better than my schiit Ragnarok? Slightly warm neutral.


Headamp GSX Mini is in that price range and it does also have a slight warm tilt to it. Here is a link that the Abyss guys did on amps for the 1266TC.
8 mins into it talks about the GSX mini specifically but they have a list of amps and price points.



Hope that helps.


----------



## jlbrach

ufospls2 said:


> https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649914298-simaudio-moon-430had-headphone-amplifier-with-dac/
> 
> He might be willing to ship down to you. Very good match with the 1266. I haven't heard the Ragnarok with the 1266. Ragnarok would definitely have enough power but I'm not sure about its sound signature and matching with Abyss. I know Abyss also like the 430 from Simaudio. Its a bit long in the tooth in terms of the current amp market, but at used pricing its much easier to recommend vs. its MSRP (which imo, is a bit much.)


I had the moon amp years ago...it was a fine amp but there are numerous better choices at this point for the abyss...


----------



## ufospls2 (Nov 2, 2022)

jlbrach said:


> I had the moon amp years ago...it was a fine amp but there are numerous better choices at this point for the abyss...


True (which is why I said its a bit long in the tooth compared to the current amp market....) but they all cost more than $2k.


----------



## jlbrach (Nov 2, 2022)

lots of 2k amps today far better choices than the Moon and as I said I owned it and liked it...I would start with the ifi signature ican and move on to the new ferrum pairing used which is around 2300 dollars...numerous others.


----------



## ufospls2 (Nov 2, 2022)

jlbrach said:


> lots of 2k amps today far better choices than the Moon and as I said I owned it and liked it...I would start with the ifi signature ican and move on to the new ferrum pairing used which is around 2300 dollars...numerous others.


I'd take the 430ha (for the 1266 at least) if its picked up around the 1800-2000USD mark on the used market over the iFi Signature Pro iCAN and the Ferrum Hypsos/Oor Stack, but that's just me and my opinion  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## paradoxper

1.5k. A SuSy Dynahi is real compelling as well. Ragnarok 1 is also really awesome.


----------



## ufospls2

paradoxper said:


> 1.5k. A SuSy Dynahi is real compelling as well. Ragnarok 1 is also really awesome.


True, if you have access to a builder or can DIY one for 1.5k, a Susy Dynahi would be a good match. 

I haven't heard a Ragnarok 1 so I can't compare, I just know it would have enough power.


----------



## jlbrach

paradoxper said:


> 1.5k. A SuSy Dynahi is real compelling as well. Ragnarok 1 is also really awesome.


I owned the rag 1 a while back when I owned the Yiggy which for the record is a good value...is the rag 1 better than the 2?


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> I owned the rag 1 a while back when I owned the Yiggy which for the record is a good value...is the rag 1 better than the 2?


I think Ragnarok 2 is a bit terrible. Their Nexus stage sounds quite sterile compared to the Crossfet of V1.


----------



## Smallpie (Nov 3, 2022)

Edit


----------



## jlbrach

paradoxper said:


> I think Ragnarok 2 is a bit terrible. Their Nexus stage sounds quite sterile compared to the Crossfet of V1.


really?Interesting


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> really?Interesting


Give it a whirl-of-regret.


----------



## kawhia (Nov 3, 2022)

I just ordered O rings. How do I change them? Are those press studs on the pad? I don’t want to break the pad

edit: I mean head band


----------



## pofofo

They are screws and should be easy to turn.


----------



## kawhia

pofofo said:


> They are screws and should be easy to turn.


Great thank. Good I asked, I was trying to pull it apart


----------



## Smallpie

Has anyone opened their 1266 and looked at the inside? Is it pretty easy to do? I found a video of someone opening an OG but I have a TC.


----------



## pofofo

According to Abyss all the screws are fastened to a certain spec, and they discourage anyone from opening them. Why would you want to?


----------



## kawhia

I just successfully changed the o rings. And I appreciate the build quality of these headphones even more. Wow. I love them. I find the design choice to use screws in the headband curious. Why not use press studs? But it would probably be less durable?! It is certainly well executed. Very nice to the touch!
I am just feeling for the guy in the workshop who has to screw those screws all day


----------



## Smallpie

pofofo said:


> According to Abyss all the screws are fastened to a certain spec, and they discourage anyone from opening them. Why would you want to?


i was worried since I bought used that there were flaws to it. I remember hearing people talk about issues with the driver warping. Is that not an issue with the TC? Was this a rare occurrence with the OG?


----------



## pofofo

kawhia said:


> I just successfully changed the o rings. And I appreciate the build quality of these headphones even more. Wow. I love them. I find the design choice to use screws in the headband curious. Why not use press studs? But it would probably be less durable?! It is certainly well executed. Very nice to the touch!
> I am just feeling for the guy in the workshop who has to screw those screws all day


I would think so. It seems they made these to last for a long time. Screws are definitely more durable than press studs.


Smallpie said:


> i was worried since I bought used that there were flaws to it. I remember hearing people talk about issues with the driver warping. Is that not an issue with the TC? Was this a rare occurrence with the OG?


I think Abyss said that it`s not a problem with the TC. Either way, opening them up like that would risk destroying them. If they work as they should, I would leave them alone... other than listening and enjoying them that is.


----------



## mogeq

Smallpie said:


> Has anyone opened their 1266 and looked at the inside? Is it pretty easy to do? I found a video of someone opening an OG but I have a TC.


why want you do that. its more nothing as something inside. this is the most expensive american air that you can buy.


----------



## F208Frank (Nov 7, 2022)

Damn guys, lately I traveled to Canada with a portable set up missing my over ear cans, so I been for the first time in a long while venturing into trialing focal 2022 and meze elite as they can be both ran off a DAP.

I almost feel that my IEMS are not that far behind them in terms of listening enjoyment despite IEMS generally not scaling up that much. While listening to both utopia/elite I was trying so hard amongst both of them semi forcing myself to choose one as I wanted a transportable option thats over ears, I just could not pull the trigger on either.

I just found the Utopia wonderful with the details but lacking engagement with how the bass is presented, and the meze elite while semi engaging, lacking some details that I so desired. I felt I was a pessimist in that I am trialing 2 TOTL headphones and I am nitpicking on both and not fully being happy with either.

Now that I got home to the abyss TC back in NY (my home) I appreciate these so much more. I always felt they were good, but I never understood why I liked em. When trialing other headphones, it gives you some perspective as to what you like/dislike etc. Obviously this is common sense and done by most head fi folks, but for me I only really tried Susvara/TC1266/LCD4 during my time of purchase as I wanted to simplify my decision making.

As I typed all this, I was bopping my head and smirking at the all the songs that I was trialing with the utopia 22 and the meze elite...

I now realize that the bass presentation plays a pretty damn big role into listening enjoyment, that is not to say that everyone enjoys Abyss bass, but for me they are just muah! (kiss towards the air gesture)

Regarding the treble on the utopia 2022, at times it still felt a bit too much for me, on the Elite, it felt like there was not enough, on the TC it felt just damn right. This alone shows you how people's preference can be so dialed in, I can easily see someone prefering the utopia treble or elite treble over the TC.

With the SC cable, the treble is detailed, fully present, and glorious without any fatigue whatsoever, just masterfully done.

Now with that all said, does anyone here prefer the Diana TC over the 1266? What are the main differences if you were to put into words?


----------



## karlheinz147

F208Frank said:


> Damn guys, lately I traveled to Canada with a portable set up missing my over ear cans, so I been for the first time in a long while venturing into trialing focal 2022 and meze elite as they can be both ran off a DAP.
> 
> I almost feel that my IEMS are not that far behind them in terms of listening enjoyment despite IEMS generally not scaling up that much. While listening to both utopia/elite I was trying so hard amongst both of them semi forcing myself to choose one as I wanted a transportable option thats over ears, I just could not pull the trigger on either.
> 
> ...


Comparing headphones driven off a DAP versus others headphones driven off desktop gear is pointless. There's no comparison. That'd be like trying to find out who is faster: Lewis Hamilton riding his scooter or your neighbour driving a Bugatti.

I own both Elite/TC and they sound completely different when using proper desktop gear. Now try them the other way around, TC off a DAP and Elite on desktop gear and let's see what you like more 🤣


----------



## F208Frank (Nov 8, 2022)

karlheinz147 said:


> Comparing headphones driven off a DAP versus others headphones driven off desktop gear is pointless. There's no comparison. That'd be like trying to find out who is faster: Lewis Hamilton riding his scooter or your neighbour driving a Bugatti.
> 
> I own both Elite/TC and they sound completely different when using proper desktop gear. Now try them the other way around, TC off a DAP and Elite on desktop gear and let's see what you like more 🤣


You know whats funny, I was actually going to come back to make the statement that it was unfair as it was dap vs full desktop gear. This popped in my head as I was laying down to sleep and funnily enough your reply mentioned that when I came back to thread.

Thanks for clarifying, you are absolutely correct. But I do have to say at the least I do have some broad strokes in my mind.

To honor your reply and thought though, I will make sure to try the 22 utopia off my desktop chain and throw an update back on this when that day happens. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

"I own both Elite/TC and they sound completely different when using proper desktop gear. Now try them the other way around, TC off a DAP and Elite on desktop gear and let's see what you like more"

Response to this is just absolutely absurd as the TC won't be driven off the DAP and you knew that, 22 utopia and elites are much easier to drive, but point taken.

The whole point of even considering the elites or utopia for me in first place was because they are considered transportable. Never in my mind were they for my preference going to be better based off previous can jams. I was only searching for something easily driven off a dap, which both utopia and elites are...

If the TC was able to be driven off a DAP I would not even consider the Elite or the Utopia, partially because I have listened to Elite and Utopia at a can jam off desktop gear multiple times before. But of course that's too far behind in the past to recollect, I was never wowed as I was with the TC.

I do hope I surprise myself by throwing the utopia on the same chain as my TCs and "hear for myself"

I am sure it will sound much better than the DAP, but for it to sound better than the TC for my preference? Tough call.

Thanks for the thought and the time taken to post that reply. Good point and my blunder.

Night night!


----------



## karlheinz147

F208Frank said:


> You know whats funny, I was actually going to come back to make the statement that it was unfair as it was dap vs full desktop gear. This popped in my head as I was laying down to sleep and funnily enough your reply mentioned that when I came back to thread.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying, you are absolutely correct. But I do have to say at the least I do have some broad strokes in my mind.
> 
> ...


I was actually on the same boat and got the Elite because I thought it could more versatile (driven off DAPs and desktop gear). Since it's easier to drive as you mention, off a DAP you can get a very loud volume level and decent sound, but to my taste now, a bit too neutral and not engaging. After trying the Elite on May KTE + LTA Z10, it was game over for anything portable I've ever owned and haven't been able to listen to them on anything else since then.

On the other hand, TC and DAPs are the same as water and oil, unfortunately. To this day it's beyond my understanding how some mentioned the FiiO M17 was a good pairing for the TC. Those comments actually led me to buy a M17. If I use the right words to describe what I heard, I would probably get banned here, so I'll just say the M17 was listed for sale the same day I got it. 

Luckily Elite and TC are different enough justify keeping both so far. Looking forward to your Utopia 2022 impressions as well. Might try to get one during next year.

Good night


----------



## Trance_Gott

I think it's the presentation of the Abyss which makes it so much fun and you always go back to them. Especially with Metal. No it's not the best tonality, details, soundstage for that a Susvara is clear winner and Utopia 2022 is ahead. But the Abyss is all about fun, fun, fun with this visceral impact only the Abyss has.


----------



## paradoxper

karlheinz147 said:


> Comparing headphones driven off a DAP versus others headphones driven off desktop gear is pointless. There's no comparison. That'd be like trying to find out who is faster: Lewis Hamilton riding his scooter or your neighbour driving a Bugatti.
> 
> I own both Elite/TC and they sound completely different when using proper desktop gear. Now try them the other way around, TC off a DAP and Elite on desktop gear and let's see what you like more 🤣


Yup. I built a custom Dyna amp for the Traillii in hope of curbing some performance, I don't even bother with them today.
But they're the joy of the IEM world and are mediocre at scale.


----------



## F208Frank (Nov 8, 2022)

karlheinz147 said:


> I was actually on the same boat and got the Elite because I thought it could more versatile (driven off DAPs and desktop gear). Since it's easier to drive as you mention, off a DAP you can get a very loud volume level and decent sound, but to my taste now, a bit too neutral and not engaging. After trying the Elite on May KTE + LTA Z10, it was game over for anything portable I've ever owned and haven't been able to listen to them on anything else since then.
> 
> On the other hand, TC and DAPs are the same as water and oil, unfortunately. To this day it's beyond my understanding how some mentioned the FiiO M17 was a good pairing for the TC. Those comments actually led me to buy a M17. If I use the right words to describe what I heard, I would probably get banned here, so I'll just say the M17 was listed for sale the same day I got it.
> 
> ...


Great, this makes me quite excited to try both elite and utopia on my desktop chain. Sounds like to me portable set ups are just never going to be as good or satisfying, in my mind I thought an easier to drive item like utopia/elite would sound great enough off a DAP.

Good to get your perspective, and great to know M17 is ass. I almost bought one due to reading same thing, about someone stating m17 and abyss pairs well.

Pure gut feeling, it felt too good to be true, hence the utopia/elite candidates. Never tried the m17 myself, went sp3000 and IEM route, but open backs just are so so SO much better.


----------



## paradoxper

serve masters


----------



## Smallpie

paradoxper said:


> serve masters


What are those Elrog’s plugged into? Seems like a super thin chassis or I’m seeing it wrong.


----------



## Smallpie (Nov 10, 2022)

I used to own a bunch of first watt amps with my 2 ch. setup. A cheap J2 popped up last week so I jumped on it quickly. It arrives tomorrow and hopefully works well with the 1266’s!! Fingers crossed.

Picking up an old audio research tube preamp to go with it too.


----------



## ufospls2

Smallpie said:


> What are those Elrog’s plugged into? Seems like a super thin chassis or I’m seeing it wrong.


Not sure which exact model it is, but it looks like an Acuhorn DAC (tubes+Soekris R2R board.)

https://www.acuhorn.pl/acuhorn-R2RXT.htm


----------



## paradoxper (Nov 10, 2022)

Smallpie said:


> What are those Elrog’s plugged into? Seems like a super thin chassis or I’m seeing it wrong.


That is the fully balanced Acuhorn XT (300B, PX4, 45, 2A3 etc). It can run mono or single ended pairs as well, however, there is a single ended version application.


----------



## nagi8404

Just joined the club.
People weren't kidding when they said these are so picky with fit.
Still struggling to find the right setup for my head, but I hope I'll get used to it in a few days.

Comfort wise it's not as bad as it looks, other than the weight.
I don't particularly enjoy the ergonomics of the cable, it's very stiff and heavy, so if I let it sag it'll pull the headphones down.


----------



## Roasty

nagi8404 said:


> Just joined the club.
> People weren't kidding when they said these are so picky with fit.
> Still struggling to find the right setup for my head, but I hope I'll get used to it in a few days.
> 
> ...



congrats man! 
I did my SC cable in a twist and used velcro strips to keep them together. makes it much easier to rest on the lap and take the weight off when listening.


----------



## Ciggavelli

nagi8404 said:


> Just joined the club.
> People weren't kidding when they said these are so picky with fit.
> Still struggling to find the right setup for my head, but I hope I'll get used to it in a few days.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the club  

It took me a couple of days or maybe a week to get a good fit.  Remember you can toe in and toe out the pads, and you can bend the frame out if it is too tight on your head.  Once you find that good fit though, you'll be very happy.


----------



## mt-hifidelity

F208Frank said:


> Great, this makes me quite excited to try both elite and utopia on my desktop chain. Sounds like to me portable set ups are just never going to be as good or satisfying, in my mind I thought an easier to drive item like utopia/elite would sound great enough off a DAP.
> 
> Good to get your perspective, and great to know M17 is ass. I almost bought one due to reading same thing, about someone stating m17 and abyss pairs well.
> 
> Pure gut feeling, it felt too good to be true, hence the utopia/elite candidates. Never tried the m17 myself, went sp3000 and IEM route, but open backs just are so so SO much better.



I think you will like the Diana TC.


----------



## Hiker816

nagi8404 said:


> I don't particularly enjoy the ergonomics of the cable, it's very stiff and heavy, so if I let it sag it'll pull the headphones down.


I'm also not a fan of the ergonomics of the stock cable, and am starting to look for a replacement.  I searched this thread, and gather the SC cable and Prion4 are at the top of the heap sonically and ergonomically, at least for an analytical listener like me who prizes detail, speed, and resolution.  Are there any other cables that approach the SC and Prion4 in both sonics and ergonomics?  (But maybe with less damage to the wallet).


----------



## Ciggavelli

Hiker816 said:


> I'm also not a fan of the ergonomics of the stock cable, and am starting to look for a replacement.  I searched this thread, and gather the SC cable and Prion4 are at the top of the heap sonically and ergonomically, at least for an analytical listener like me who prizes detail, speed, and resolution.  Are there any other cables that approach the SC and Prion4 in both sonics and ergonomics?  (But maybe with less damage to the wallet).


The stock cable ergonomics are trash.  I'm convinced they make it that way on purpose so that you buy the SC cable.  The SC cable is very good though.  Another option is Danacables Lazuli (Ref, Plus, Nirvana).  They are thick cables though and range from $1K to $4k I believe.  I have a lot of Danacables cables in my setup (HP, IC, USB, Power).  I'm a big fan.  Vinh is great to deal with


----------



## paradoxper

Hiker816 said:


> I'm also not a fan of the ergonomics of the stock cable, and am starting to look for a replacement.  I searched this thread, and gather the SC cable and Prion4 are at the top of the heap sonically and ergonomically, at least for an analytical listener like me who prizes detail, speed, and resolution.  Are there any other cables that approach the SC and Prion4 in both sonics and ergonomics?  (But maybe with less damage to the wallet).


I don't believe there is a cable I haven't tried but amongst Prion the S4 is my favorite. I am not sure if Norne is offering it in pure silver form any longer.


----------



## Ciggavelli

paradoxper said:


> I don't believe there is a cable I haven't tried but amongst Prion the S4 is my favorite. I am not sure if Norne is offering it in pure silver form any longer.


Sidnote, Decibel Magazine crowned the Undeath album as album of the year.  I don't agree, but it's still a great album


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> Sidnote, Decibel Magazine crowned the Undeath album as album of the year.  I don't agree, but it's still a great album


Not even close! But I prefer progressive technical types. It was a great release.


----------



## Hiker816

Ciggavelli said:


> The stock cable ergonomics are trash.  I'm convinced they make it that way on purpose so that you buy the SC cable.  The SC cable is very good though.  Another option is Danacables Lazuli (Ref, Plus, Nirvana).  They are thick cables though and range from $1K to $4k I believe.  I have a lot of Danacables cables in my setup (HP, IC, USB, Power).  I'm a big fan.  Vinh is great to deal with


Thanks!  Do you think the Lazuli gives up anything to the Prion4 or SC on the detail, speed, or resolution front?


----------



## Ciggavelli (Nov 14, 2022)

Hiker816 said:


> Thanks!  Do you think the Lazuli gives up anything to the Prion4 or SC on the detail, speed, or resolution front?


I haven't compared them all side by side and haven't heard the Prion4.  I prefer the SC to the Lazuli Ref though.  The Lazuli Ref is more about adding some warmth (that's why it's great with the Utopias).  You will probably want something silver for detail, speed and resolution.  You probably would like a silver Prion4.  Silver is typically for detail and resolution, and copper is for warmth.  The higher end Danacables mix copper and silver, but they don't offer a pure silver cable.  I'd try out the Prion4 if I was you


----------



## Smallpie

How does everyone wear their 1266’s? What’s the best fit for you? Interested in how people got to their custom fittings and why.


----------



## Roasty

Smallpie said:


> How does everyone wear their 1266’s? What’s the best fit for you? Interested in how people got to their custom fittings and why.



I used to have the frame spread out to the widest; this gave me the biggest bass, but central imaging took a big hit and vocals sounded off center and hazy. 

I now have the frame somewhere in the middle of fully closed/wide apart. bass is noticeably lesser, but imaging and staging is spot on. most holographic for me at this setting; can pinpoint exactly where each element is coming from. 

I have my pad seams at 3 and 9 o'clock. and I toe out the frame so I have a small air gap in front of my ears; this aided in spaciousness and clarity. having the frame lined up side to side made it a bit too much of a closed in sensation. bass takes a hit when toeing in the frame.


----------



## paradoxper

I have the frame almost open all the way utilizing the toe-out as a coupling and gap at the front. It's actually more comfortable as well.


----------



## nogi replicant

Hiker816 said:


> I'm also not a fan of the ergonomics of the stock cable, and am starting to look for a replacement.  I searched this thread, and gather the SC cable and Prion4 are at the top of the heap sonically and ergonomically, at least for an analytical listener like me who prizes detail, speed, and resolution.  Are there any other cables that approach the SC and Prion4 in both sonics and ergonomics?  (But maybe with less damage to the wallet).


I use both the SC and Prion 4s with the Abyss. The SC provides a more relaxed listen, the Prion 4s wins on technicalities hands down - larger presentation, more articulate through the whole spectrum, also a little brighter. Prion 4s has better ergonomics, as it is not as thick and heavy as the SC. They both murder the stock cable big time sonically.


----------



## Hiker816

nogi replicant said:


> I use both the SC and Prion 4s with the Abyss. The SC provides a more relaxed listen, the Prion 4s wins on technicalities hands down - larger presentation, more articulate through the whole spectrum, also a little brighter. Prion 4s has better ergonomics, as it is not as thick and heavy as the SC. They both murder the stock cable big time sonically.


Thanks, that's exactly the sort of input I was looking for.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Nov 15, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> I have the frame almost open all the way utilizing the toe-out as a coupling and gap at the front. It's actually more comfortable as well.


I do the same thing.  You can rest the back of the earcups right behind your ear too, to keep position. It brings about more bass too. I use a rocking chair when listening to music, and this positioning works the best. Going straight across (with no toe out) means you can’t move your head as much and doesn’t work well with a rocking chair. I like to move to my music, and a rocking chair helps to achieve that for me.


----------



## karlheinz147

paradoxper said:


> I have the frame almost open all the way utilizing the toe-out as a coupling and gap at the front. It's actually more comfortable as well.


What position are the earpads here? Facing backwards?


----------



## deuter

I’ve had some interesting time recently with my headphone setup.
Least to say I would
Listen to music on my headphone setup 2-3 times a month so not an avid listener.
The other day realised the power supply for my Ultra Rendu didn’t come on, after about a week of waiting got a reply from the manufacturer that it’s possibly a blown fuse.
Replaced that today, went to test the setup and noticed the headphones just dropped on my head, on further observation found this




Got the kids to part with one of their million rubber bands, now I have the headband with a skinny purple band at one side.
Anyone have a spare Abyss 1266 headband that they don’t need or have upgraded from.
Happy to pay for it.
Don’t feel the purple Band-Aid fix will last very long.


----------



## vonBaron

You know you can replace this O ring right?


----------



## deuter

vonBaron said:


> You know you can replace this O ring right?


I have the OG version, can I get replacement O rings?


----------



## kawhia

Ciggavelli said:


> I do the same thing.  You can rest the back of the earcups right behind your ear too, to keep position. It brings about more bass too. I use a rocking chair when listening to music, and this positioning works the best. Going straight across (with no toe out) means you can’t move your head as much and doesn’t work well with a rocking chair. I like to move to my music, and a rocking chair helps to achieve that for me.


Interesting. I have the toe in the other way around to simulate speakers ( or the band/orchestra) in front of me. But will try what you do later today.


----------



## vonBaron

deuter said:


> I have the OG version, can I get replacement O rings?


You can but sadly not with O ring.


----------



## You Kay

kawhia said:


> Interesting. I have the toe in the other way around to simulate speakers ( or the band/orchestra) in front of me. But will try what you do later today.




This position for me is not ideal. The bass is too much. Usually I complain that headphones don’t have enough bass. With the 1266 I’m trying to tame it😆

I changed my interconnects from Sagra>Formula S to solid silver and there was an uplift in clarity and definition. 

Next up changing the stock headphone cable to solid silver. 

Also need to upgrade fuses to AMR or hifiintouch on the electronics.


----------



## vonBaron

Try to close them up to the ears to tame the bass.


----------



## paradoxper

karlheinz147 said:


> What position are the earpads here? Facing backwards?


3-9.


----------



## ddlo (Nov 15, 2022)

really happy to get the 1266 phi tc finally  

just ran it from my topping a90/d90 stack and i need to go to same vol setting for SUS to get my normal listening level despite on paper it seems the SUS is quite a bit less sensitive.

the adjustment mechanism is really unique (i wanna use more negative words but refrained from said so just from my 15mins experience so far) and i've yet to get a really comfortable position.  i got a big head an even fully extended, the 1266 didnt seem wide enough to sit loosely on the ears as recommended.  from my 15 mins listening so far, the sound is quite clean and dynamic but bass is not as powerful as i imagined.  might be i have to experience more about the wearing positions.

got to go back to further trying out how to wear it optimally


----------



## Abyss Headphones

We did a video around the time the OG came out that showed how to properly bend the frame outward for wide fitment.


----------



## kawhia

ddlo said:


> really happy to get the 1266 phi tc finally
> 
> just ran it from my topping a90/d90 stack and i need to go to same vol setting for SUS to get my normal listening level despite on paper it seems the SUS is quite a bit less sensitive.
> 
> ...


I also have a large head. I bent the frame a little bit and got larger o rings. With larger rings you adjust the height of the earcups. Now the headphone is perfect. Have fun.


----------



## karlheinz147

paradoxper said:


> 3-9.


With the seams facing forward or backward?


----------



## Smallpie

paradoxper said:


> I have the frame almost open all the way utilizing the toe-out as a coupling and gap at the front. It's actually more comfortable as well.


I think people might be confused as you said you do toe out but if you look at your picture you can see the earpads faced the opposite way and for toe in. Maybe I’m missing something or making the mistake.


----------



## vonBaron

Has anyone noticed how easily the 1266 TC synergy with almost any source? I listened to my 1266 on probably a dozen or so sources and from what I remember only the Burson 3XP sounded poorly and otherwise it was at least good.


----------



## paradoxper

karlheinz147 said:


> With the seams facing forward or backward?





Smallpie said:


> I think people might be confused as you said you do toe out but if you look at your picture you can see the earpads faced the opposite way and for toe in. Maybe I’m missing something or making the mistake.


Seams are at back. You can see the left pad seam on the blurry picture I provided.


----------



## mitchb

I have the seams of my earpads at 3oclock looking at the left ear pad and 9 o’clock looking at the right ear pad. The thicker part of the pad is at the back of my ears with the thinner part at the front. I find that the gap is at the bottom back of my ears. I may have a little tow in to the back increasing the gap at the back of my ears. Am I doing this right? Paradoxper has his pads opposite to mine. I am 3 o’clock on the left pad and 9 o’clock on the right.


----------



## normie610

mitchb said:


> I have the seams of my earpads at 3oclock looking at the left ear pad and 9 o’clock looking at the right ear pad. The thicker part of the pad is at the back of my ears with the thinner part at the front. I find that the gap is at the bottom back of my ears. I may have a little tow in to the back increasing the gap at the back of my ears. Am I doing this right? Paradoxper has his pads opposite to mine. I am 3 o’clock on the left pad and 9 o’clock on the right.


Mine is the same as yours. There’s no right or wrong though, it depends on what sort of sound that you’re after and which position gives you the best comfort.


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Mine is the same as yours. There’s no right or wrong though, it depends on what sort of sound that you’re after and which position gives you the best comfort.


Pretty variable.
I have the thinner part towards the bottom of my ears which sort of hugs with the toe-out and the gap at my temple.
This just presents the best comfort and most linear sound for my head.


----------



## mitchb

At the advice of Abyss instructions which comes with the headphones I have the thicker part of the pad at between 3 o’clock and 6 o’clock with the seam of the pad at around 10 o’clock on the left pad. The sound is quite nice this way.


----------



## paradoxper

mitchb said:


> At the advice of Abyss instructions which comes with the headphones I have the thicker part of the pad at between 3 o’clock and 6 o’clock with the seam of the pad at around 10 o’clock on the left pad. The sound is quite nice this way.


Have you then not tried every position available?


----------



## mitchb

At this point I have and I like the sound best now. I am getting a fuller richer sound with the thicker part of the pad at between 3 o’clock and 6 o’clock with the seam at around 10 o’clock on the left  pad.


----------



## paradoxper

mitchb said:


> At this point I have and I like the sound best now. I am getting a fuller richer sound with the thicker part of the pad at between 3 o’clock and 6 o’clock with the seam at around 10 o’clock on the left  pad.


Then you're all set.


----------



## ufospls2

mitchb said:


> I have the seams of my earpads at 3oclock looking at the left ear pad and 9 o’clock looking at the right ear pad. The thicker part of the pad is at the back of my ears with the thinner part at the front. I find that the gap is at the bottom back of my ears. I may have a little tow in to the back increasing the gap at the back of my ears. Am I doing this right? Paradoxper has his pads opposite to mine. I am 3 o’clock on the left pad and 9 o’clock on the right.


Thats how I use the pads also


----------



## mitchb

ufospls2 said:


> Thats how I use the pads also


I am enjoying the pad positioning recommended by Abyss for a pleasant change. I now have the seams of the pads at 11 o’clock on the left and 1 o’clock on the right side. A warmer yet more detailed sound somehow. These headphones are nice!


----------



## Trance_Gott

German Powermetal at it's best! 
Amazing with 1266 TC.


----------



## nagi8404

How do you guys replace the o-ring with new leather band?
Do you just pull the silver looking thingy apart?

The o-ring that came with the new headband seem small and I'm afraid of breaking it if I pull the headphones apart too much.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Trance_Gott said:


> German Powermetal at it's best!
> Amazing with 1266 TC.


I'll raise this:


----------



## Ciggavelli

nagi8404 said:


> How do you guys replace the o-ring with new leather band?
> Do you just pull the silver looking thingy apart?
> 
> The o-ring that came with the new headband seem small and I'm afraid of breaking it if I pull the headphones apart too much.


Just unscrew the silver things.  It's real easy with a screwdriver


----------



## nagi8404

Ciggavelli said:


> Just unscrew the silver things.  It's real easy with a screwdriver


Ahh thanks! wasn't written on the product page so I thought it is permanently bolted.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

The new headband o'rings won't break in normal usage, not to mention they're replaceable. 
Given you have a brand new headband it will give a bit over time. We suggest to pull the metal frame full out (bend if necessary to fit your wider head) and then hang the headphone on a headphone stand for a few days. The leather will slightly stretch to a more final length after a few days (think leather shoes). If you still find the headband pulling back and too short, then replace the o'rings on the leather headband. Keep in mind it does not take much, a few mm added to each o'ring makes a big difference.


----------



## vonBaron

Abyss Headphones said:


> The new headband o'rings won't break in normal usage, not to mention they're replaceable.
> Given you have a brand new headband it will give a bit over time. We suggest to pull the metal frame full out (bend if necessary to fit your wider head) and then hang the headphone on a headphone stand for a few days. The leather will slightly stretch to a more final length after a few days (think leather shoes). If you still find the headband pulling back and too short, then replace the o'rings on the leather headband. Keep in mind it does not take much, a few mm added to each o'ring makes a big difference.


Em no... My break from hanging in headphones stand and i never hang them by leather headband.


----------



## smutnyjoe

To be honest, one of my original orings also broke without a reason. For me, these orings are the weakest point of the otherwise really strong and esthetic construction


----------



## nagi8404

Abyss Headphones said:


> The new headband o'rings won't break in normal usage, not to mention they're replaceable.
> Given you have a brand new headband it will give a bit over time. We suggest to pull the metal frame full out (bend if necessary to fit your wider head) and then hang the headphone on a headphone stand for a few days. The leather will slightly stretch to a more final length after a few days (think leather shoes). If you still find the headband pulling back and too short, then replace the o'rings on the leather headband. Keep in mind it does not take much, a few mm added to each o'ring makes a big difference.


Thanks for the info!
So you're saying the default O-ring that came with the new headband should be ok with the headphones being fully stretched?
The new o-ring looks smaller than the old one, so I'm afraid of unnecessarily snapping it.


----------



## ddlo

vonBaron said:


> Has anyone noticed how easily the 1266 TC synergy with almost any source? I listened to my 1266 on probably a dozen or so sources and from what I remember only the Burson 3XP sounded poorly and otherwise it was at least good.


indeed.  it sounds great with my lowly a90/d90 combo!  

i found the deep bass i'm hoping to get from the 1266phi TC is all there tonight, after 2 days of listening.  it's really impactful, rumbling bass. i'm enjoying sam smith's unholy on tidal now and the bass are so enjoyable (not that other regions are bad, just the bass steals the show)!  i'm not a strong believer of burn-in on headphone or electronic gears.  maybe it's just i got a better wearing position? or just my sensory processing got adopted to this sound signature? anyway, it sounds so much fun and really supplements the susvara


----------



## mitchb

How are other Abyss 1266 TC owners wearing the ear pads? I am wearing them at the advice of Abyss with the thicker part of the pads between 3 o’clock and 6 o’clock with the seams at 11 o’clock and 1 o’clock. I am getting a much richer sounding midrange and bass this way. I was a 3-9 seamer for many months but I am enjoying my new sound for a change. How do others wear their ear pads?


----------



## jlbrach

I find myself constantly changing it ,for me I find compromises between comfort and best sound...it always sounds great just different...fun to experiment


----------



## Smallpie

I’m still messing around with earpad placement and chassis positioning. I do like the toe out where there’s an opening in the front. Some music sounds great with toe in too.


----------



## jjshin23

after messing with the positioning of the pads... mine stopped at 2 and 4.


----------



## number1sixerfan

vonBaron said:


> Has anyone noticed how easily the 1266 TC synergy with almost any source? I listened to my 1266 on probably a dozen or so sources and from what I remember only the Burson 3XP sounded poorly and otherwise it was at least good.



I haven't tried many sources, but I have tried quite a few amps and somewhat similarly, although you do want some juice, it mates synergy wise very well with a LOT of amps. Which isn't true for all headphones. In my experience it's a bit easier building a system around the TC than some others.


----------



## vonBaron (Nov 17, 2022)

Yes, they are not amp picky at all. For example they sound brilliant from WA33/23 as from my Niimbus on the same DAC.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

nagi8404 said:


> Thanks for the info!
> So you're saying the default O-ring that came with the new headband should be ok with the headphones being fully stretched?
> The new o-ring looks smaller than the old one, so I'm afraid of unnecessarily snapping it.


Right, latest design is pretty robust, these are urethane o’rings made to spec and individually inspected and tested prior to assembly. Now when you move to the 100 pac for ten dollars, those tend to be less reliable. Either way, with the new leather headband it’s easy enough to swap them out.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Abyss Headphones said:


> Right, latest design is pretty robust, these are urethane o’rings made to spec and individually inspected and tested prior to assembly. Now when you move to the 100 pac for ten dollars, those tend to be less reliable. Either way, with the new leather headband it’s easy enough to swap them out.


You really should have used the one size larger o-rings, or at least provided your customers with o-ring options. It’s such a minor cost to you, but would be a big help with the user experience. Everybody I know had to replace the stock size. That’s not good


----------



## F208Frank

Hey Abyss since the urethan o rings are made to spec, would you guys ever consider selling them as a courtesy/peace of mind to customers in the small chance event the O ring does give and break down the line?


----------



## cringeana (Nov 18, 2022)

Trance_Gott said:


> German Powermetal at it's best!
> Amazing with 1266 TC.


i don't use 1266, but i thought i should say that this is a great album recommendation regardless


----------



## Abyss Headphones

@Ciggavelli We tested various sizes on the new leather headband. If you hang a brand new headband on a stand, forgive it time, the leather itself will stretch, so the stock ring size (213) was set to fit the leathers final resting length. A brand new headband might be a bit tight up front, but it will break-in.

All the people you know are guys who already owned AB1266 with the old style headband that's all stretched out, basically hitting the top screw on the metal frame. Sorta fits like an old shoe, then upgrade to a new virgin headband, didn't put any time on it, lack of patience sort of thing which I get, and go right to changing the rings. Not something we anticipated, but definitely saw it happen.


----------



## deuter

Will glueing the broken o-ring fix the issue with the OG headband?
I currently have a broken one.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Abyss Headphones said:


> @Ciggavelli We tested various sizes on the new leather headband. If you hang a brand new headband on a stand, forgive it time, the leather itself will stretch, so the stock ring size (213) was set to fit the leathers final resting length. A brand new headband might be a bit tight up front, but it will break-in.
> 
> All the people you know are guys who already owned AB1266 with the old style headband that's all stretched out, basically hitting the top screw on the metal frame. Sorta fits like an old shoe, then upgrade to a new virgin headband, didn't put any time on it, lack of patience sort of thing which I get, and go right to changing the rings. Not something we anticipated, but definitely saw it happen.


I hear you, but nobody is doing that. It’s much easier to just use the one size up o-ring. Like much easier


----------



## dubharmonic

Has anyone tried the AB1266 Phi TC with the Feliks Envy? I loved the Envy with the Susvara. 

I spent some time with the TC and a DNA Stellaris. There wasn’t enough current to fill out the guts of the TC, though some of the DNA magic still came through. Fingers crossed that some day Donald makes a stronger amp that will gel with low efficiency isodynamics!


----------



## MichalZZZZ

For me LCD5 has the best synergy with Envy. Then Verite C (great organic sound), then Abyss 1266, then Empyrean. Envy was great, but a bit too slow and soft for me. Abyss has better synergy with Niimbus US5 Pro. I prefer more dynamic sound with these headphones.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Joe and team, the AB1266 Phi TC never cease to amaze me. Due to my son's hockey and life in general, I've been away from music listening for most of the month...tonight was a rare night off and I'm sitting down to listen to Neil Young's new album and it is like my first time putting these amazing headphones on my head! Such an expansive and speaker-like sound with incredible balance and transparency! Definitely something to be experienced!!!


----------



## Abyss Headphones

Thank you, Mun!


----------



## deuter

Joeyjoe26 said:


> For those with the old style headband and who do not want to spend a bomb on a new style headband
> 
> I’ve tried using rubber o rings and using a splice connector/crimp, its dead easy, and cheap to replace the o rings
> 
> ...


Can you explain the process as to what you have to do and tools to use.


----------



## ahossam

Just found this amazing album, never been this excited and impressed for a relatively new band in a long time. Great music and production quality, sound glorious with 1266 TC.


----------



## jlbrach

ahossam said:


> Just found this amazing album, never been this excited and impressed for a relatively new band in a long time. Great music and production quality, sound glorious with 1266 TC.


quite the cover art...


----------



## karangovil

Took some time but finally built a system around the 1266





1266 have quickly become my go to headphones for metal and just looking at my Roon statistics, my metal listening hours have gone way up since getting these. Highly addictive and making me discover new genres and albums like this one


----------



## ufospls2

karangovil said:


> Took some time but finally built a system around the 1266
> 
> 
> 
> 1266 have quickly become my go to headphones for metal and just looking at my Roon statistics, my metal listening hours have gone way up since getting these. Highly addictive and making me discover new genres and albums like this one


@paradoxper approved this post. Also, sweet!


----------



## paradoxper

ufospls2 said:


> @paradoxper approved this post. Also, sweet!


Nods. This is good.


----------



## paradoxper

Slam me, deliver me


----------



## helljudgement

karangovil said:


> Took some time but finally built a system around the 1266


How's the Studio B/Abyss pairing? I've had some experience with it driving efficient planar but nothing close to the synergy it had with a dynamic driver headphone.


----------



## pofofo

paradoxper said:


> Slam me, deliver me


How is the Ragnarok 1 for the 1266? Any comparisons to other amps?


----------



## karangovil

helljudgement said:


> How's the Studio B/Abyss pairing? I've had some experience with it driving efficient planar but nothing close to the synergy it had with a dynamic driver headphone.


I am actually using the Studio B as a preamp to feed the CFA3 SS amp and 1266 TC is plugged into the CFA3. Studio B will get the TC loud enough but the synergy is not great, especially the bass doesn't feel quite filled out. Overall, it feels a bit hollow/anemic directly out of Studio B.

CFA3 by itself does a great job of driving the TC but I usually run it with the 300B pre. I have done some (not so detailed) A/B but to my ears adding the tube pre seems to add more body to what might be considered as a slightly dry sound.


----------



## paradoxper

pofofo said:


> How is the Ragnarok 1 for the 1266? Any comparisons to other amps?


It's quite good by a balance check-list. Not as extended, defined and detailed as the CFA3 but considerably up-to GS-X, Bakoon/Enleum/Formula S/ Niimbus, etc.


karangovil said:


> I am actually using the Studio B as a preamp to feed the CFA3 SS amp and 1266 TC is plugged into the CFA3. Studio B will get the TC loud enough but the synergy is not great, especially the bass doesn't feel quite filled out. Overall, it feels a bit hollow/anemic directly out of Studio B.
> 
> CFA3 by itself does a great job of driving the TC but I usually run it with the 300B pre. I have done some (not so detailed) A/B but to my ears adding the tube pre seems to add more body to what might be considered as a slightly dry sound.


Do you by chance have another efficient planar to bridge comparative performance?
I've really been thinking about driving a Studio B with a tube pre but it isn't so clear just how far off it drives things standard to gleam how well a pre would work.


----------



## karangovil

paradoxper said:


> Do you by chance have another efficient planar to bridge comparative performance?


Unfortunately I don't at the moment. Rest of my inventory is all dynamic drivers. I might be looking to add one of Susvara/LCD-4/Caldera soon but none of those are efficient (maybe Caldera).


----------



## pofofo

paradoxper said:


> It's quite good by a balance check-list. Not as extended, defined and detailed as the CFA3 but considerably up-to GS-X, Bakoon/Enleum/Formula S/ Niimbus, etc.



I use Ragnarok 2 for my 1266, have you by chance heard that and can compare it to the Rag1?

I felt the Sparkos Aries brought a wider stage and a more details overall, although it’s not as powerful as the Rag2. It’s not really a fair comparison though, with the Rag2 I use Modi 3 and with the Sparkos (with upgraded opamps) I used a balanced Buffalo dac.

I was thinking about getting the GS-X mini, but if that is much the same as Rag2 I might look elsewhere.


----------



## paradoxper

pofofo said:


> I use Ragnarok 2 for my 1266, have you by chance heard that and can compare it to the Rag1?
> 
> I felt the Sparkos Aries brought a wider stage and a more details overall, although it’s not as powerful as the Rag2. It’s not really a fair comparison though, with the Rag2 I use Modi 3 and with the Sparkos (with upgraded opamps) I used a balanced Buffalo dac.
> 
> I was thinking about getting the GS-X mini, but if that is much the same as Rag2 I might look elsewhere.


I feel Ragnarok 2 brought about a coldness through the midrange and treble which I never gelled with. Your comparison likely holds a truth somewhere in the middle as the Buffalo is quite a bit better than Modi. 

I think GS-X Mini would strike a strong middleground as not as powerfully dynamic there will be equal staging with a more lifted midrange. 
I might try Freya with MELZ 1578/+RCA grey to elevate and curb some of Ragnarok 2 intricacies as it worked well with Ragnarok 1.


----------



## pofofo

Allright! Thanks, man


----------



## jjshin23

karangovil said:


> I am actually using the Studio B as a preamp to feed the CFA3 SS amp and 1266 TC is plugged into the CFA3. Studio B will get the TC loud enough but the synergy is not great, especially the bass doesn't feel quite filled out. Overall, it feels a bit hollow/anemic directly out of Studio B.
> 
> CFA3 by itself does a great job of driving the TC but I usually run it with the 300B pre. I have done some (not so detailed) A/B but to my ears adding the tube pre seems to add more body to what might be considered as a slightly dry sound.


Completely agree with you as I have the same amp setup. Studio B as my Pre (Elrog 300B) to the CFA3 and just like you said it gives it more body and warmth. I tried this with my Stratus dual 3 PIN XLR out (headphone jack) to CFA XLR in but didn't have great synergy. It made a small difference but nothing like the difference the Studio B made.


----------



## helljudgement

karangovil said:


> I am actually using the Studio B as a preamp to feed the CFA3 SS amp and 1266 TC is plugged into the CFA3. Studio B will get the TC loud enough but the synergy is not great, especially the bass doesn't feel quite filled out. Overall, it feels a bit hollow/anemic directly out of Studio B.
> 
> CFA3 by itself does a great job of driving the TC but I usually run it with the 300B pre. I have done some (not so detailed) A/B but to my ears adding the tube pre seems to add more body to what might be considered as a slightly dry sound.


Thanks for sharing. I did not know the Studio B can be used as a pre amp which is a pleasant surprise. Certainly opens up a wealth of options when it comes to driving planar. How are you connecting the Studio B to your CFA 3?


----------



## karangovil

helljudgement said:


> How are you connecting the Studio B to your CFA 3?


Studio B has SE line outs in the back that can be used as preamp outs. Usually line outs are not affected by volume control but Studio B’s are. Craig mentioned that they were originally for subwoofer out when using as a speaker amp but it’s fine to use as pre out as well.


----------



## jjshin23

For what it's worth, I've tried the Studio B SE to CFA SE and didn't like it as much as Studio B SE to CFA XLR input. Had to get a cable that was SE on one side and XLR on the other end but well worth it for me with great impact.


----------



## SteffSergeant

dubharmonic said:


> Has anyone tried the AB1266 Phi TC with the Feliks Envy? I loved the Envy with the Susvara.
> 
> I spent some time with the TC and a DNA Stellaris. There wasn’t enough current to fill out the guts of the TC, though some of the DNA magic still came through. Fingers crossed that some day Donald makes a stronger amp that will gel with low efficiency isodynamics!


Yes, I tried this a couple of month ago. I have to say, this was no good pairing. Voices were very shouty and some high frequencies were harsh and sibilant. Maybe the tubes weren’t fully burned in, but it was no good experience at all. Okay and I have to confess, that I listened before this to the dcs stack. Anyway I heard the Envy can be that way with other headphones too.


----------



## PhazeCrive (Dec 10, 2022)

Sent in the TC for repair due to it getting magnetic dust on the driver surface . Bass was just not as present as I remembered it. Something I also rarely ever see talked about is the temperature, too. It's literally a night a day difference to the sound if the TC is being used in a cold environment or not. Unheated, I have to leave it on my head for close to an hour before the heat of my head warms up the driver. Sometimes I hold it a safe distance away from my heater to re-tension those drivers and wow the bass explodes on you if it's warm enough. That's one of the reasons I bought a close-range heater. Warm TC gives it that thunder and allows for wider positioning with no roll-off. Tons of presence beneath 30hz without a seal if the drivers are warm.

And since it's gone, all I have are entry level 200 dollar and below cans. Let me say after about a year of listening only to the TC, it has effectively ruined these other headphones for me. Some of them are bassy, but come at the cost of being boomy and muffled. Some of them are too rolled off and have no treble, and none of them have any space. Not a single one of them sounds clear in any sense, but somehow the TC is sounding big and wide, more midranged than a Senny, insanely detailed, and clear while packing a body blow of bass. Usually, it is unheard of to have a ton of bass and still be clear and detailed, but the TC has something to say about that.


----------



## montanari

Delacaff said:


> Message to Phi and TC owners.
> 
> An active member of the french forum "tellementnomade.org" has shared an EQ setting for the Abyss Phi based on several measures he made. I tried his EQ despite having a TC and Oh my, the output is spectacular. Totally.
> - Trebles are now sweet as honey but still vivid,
> ...


I prefer the Crinacale one.
but I set it and I will listen to it more.. by the way I believe 150hz should have a low shelf and not a bell
thank you


----------



## Dim666 (Dec 11, 2022)

I'm subscribing to the discussion because I just picked one up this morning. I need to change one of the o-rings. As I read through the thread, I realize that I am not the only one who needs to do this. I ordered a few sizes and parts to crimp them as @Joeyjoe26  post indicates.






Have you used any other processes ? Thank you so much in advance. See you soon !!

I've the PHI TC version


----------



## pofofo

If anyone has an older style headband for sale, hit me up (broken O-rings or not) The newer one is a bit thick and the 1266 sits just a bit high on my ears (yes, big long skull) and the older style looks a bit thinner. But I’m not interested in getting rid of the newer one I’ve got,  I’m afraid.


----------



## ajaipuriyar

pofofo said:


> If anyone has an older style headband for sale, hit me up (broken O-rings or not) The newer one is a bit thick and the 1266 sits just a bit high on my ears (yes, big long skull) and the older style looks a bit thinner. But I’m not interested in getting rid of the newer one I’ve got,  I’m afraid.


Get the nitrile rubber O ring box and try the bigger rings which one fits you best. I had the same fit issue with earpads hanging above the ears and this is the best solution.

Something like this...

https://www.amazon.com/Sealing-Asso...71367752&sprefix=nitrile+rings,aps,392&sr=8-3


----------



## pofofo

ajaipuriyar said:


> Get the nitrile rubber O ring box and try the bigger rings which one fits you best. I had the same fit issue with earpads hanging above the ears and this is the best solution.
> 
> Something like this...
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Sealing-Asso...71367752&sprefix=nitrile+rings,aps,392&sr=8-3



Yes, I bought a huge box with O-rings and now the metal bar rests on my head, but I need it even lower…


----------



## Smallpie (Dec 18, 2022)

ajaipuriyar said:


> Get the nitrile rubber O ring box and try the bigger rings which one fits you best. I had the same fit issue with earpads hanging above the ears and this is the best solution.
> 
> Something like this...
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Sealing-Assortment-Plumbing-Faucet，Automotive-Connections/dp/B08QM9L9J5/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=12PKTY2EDVFFU&keywords=nitrile+o+rings&qid=1671367752&sprefix=nitrile+rings,aps,392&sr=8-3


There are two options on that Amazon link. $9 for a set of nitrile rubber orings and $56 for the more expensive fluorocarbon high quality Orings. 🤔. Decisions decisions!  Kind of want to try both to see if one is better


----------



## Dim666 (Dec 18, 2022)

Concerning the O Ring, I take this one : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005001460488894.html
=> In my opinion the 33mm looks good

Concerning the crimp connector :
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32969130672.html
=> I took the 2.5mm but the diameter is much too small

So I take this :
https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B0BD981NRK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A16WA6YMOBW41L&psc=1

And just one question JPS LABS has never communicated the exact reference of the O-ring on headfi ?? Nor did they propose an alternative solution other than buying a new headband at 375€ ?? 

https://eu.abyss-headphones.com/col...s/products/replacement-headband-abyss-ab-1266


----------



## paradoxper

Dim666 said:


> Concerning the O Ring, I take this one : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005001460488894.html
> => In my opinion the 33mm looks good
> 
> Concerning the crimp connector :
> ...


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/post-15908685


----------



## Dim666

I thank you for the link but again it's not concrete. Just know the exact reference (diameter..) of the O-ring sold with the headphone. 
After I understand that we can test different sizes for better comfort. 

But for those who have the old headband like me... testing the sizes is not easy...


----------



## Ciggavelli

So, I have a strange question.  Is it possible that the bass in the TCs can decrease over time because of a bad driver or is my hearing just sh!tty today?  I tried the TCs on two different amps with the same bass quantity present, so I know it's not my WA33 or tubes.  I don't have any other headphones with nearly as much bass as the TCs, so I can't check it that way.  I hope I'm not going sub-bass deaf.   

I guess I could send them in after letting my brother hear them when he's visiting for Christmas.  I just want booming bass from some rap albums, and the TCs aren't doing it today.


----------



## jlbrach

I have found for whatever reason there are days I listen to my HP's and for whatever reason I am less receptive to them..other days they sound glorious...time,mood..how I feel etc seem to figure in or it could just be some issue with the TC


----------



## Exekuhtor

It's probably more likely that you didn't adjust it as you normally do. I felt that even a few centimeters (front or back on top of the head) in difference can make a huge difference in bass (creating a seal / leaving an opening)...


----------



## Smallpie (Dec 19, 2022)

I’m drawing a blank but was reading somewhere that an owner warms their 1266’s up with a space heater for a half hour (I assume at a very safe distance away from the headphones.) and that helps a lot. I’d like to try it but don’t know if it works or not and maybe not worth the effort. Anyone ever do that?


----------



## sahmen

Smallpie said:


> I’m drawing a blank but was reading somewhere that an owner warms their headphone up with a space heater for a half hour and that helps a lot. I’d like to try it but don’t know if it works or not. Anyone ever do that?


I have never done that, and do not expect to ever do that, because it sounds like a terrible idea, although I say that without having any expertise on the subject. YMMV, of course.


----------



## Smallpie (Dec 19, 2022)

sahmen said:


> I have never done that, and do not expect to ever do that, because it sounds like a terrible idea, although I say that without having any expertise on the subject. YMMV, of course.


I never knock anything I haven’t tried but I agree it might not do anything. Could be helpful to the op about lack of bass changes from one day to the next.

FYI, the person is not saying put your headphone right in front of a heater!! I think the reviewer was using it to warm up a cold area of a room and thought that if the headphone wasn’t really cold that the driver worked better. They used a heater otherwise it took an hour on their head to warm up the drivers. I dunno, thought it’s worth a try if someone feels one day their headphones are great and the next they are not. Also, Maybe a simple daily burnin might get the mechanics of the headphone working at its best. I’d rather try playing music for a bit before a listening session and maybe that will help loosen the driver up?


----------



## Smallpie

Exekuhtor said:


> It's probably more likely that you didn't adjust it as you normally do. I felt that even a few centimeters (front or back on top of the head) in difference can make a huge difference in bass (creating a seal / leaving an opening)...


I’m still playing with bass and seal after having these for over a month. Such big changes with very minute dialing.


----------



## Ciggavelli

jlbrach said:


> I have found for whatever reason there are days I listen to my HP's and for whatever reason I am less receptive to them..other days they sound glorious...time,mood..how I feel etc seem to figure in or it could just be some issue with the TC


Yeah, that’s happened to me in the past too. It could have just been a bad headphone day or I was in a strange mood. I’ll experiment tomorrow again. I just wanted booming negative hip-hop blasting my troubles away today   

Though part of me wonders if I just need more power, and I went down the speaker route spiral then the wormhole of figuring out how to accommodate speakers and a sub in my place (which I can’t…). 

If it keeps happening with the TCs, I’ll send them in. 

Oh and yes, buying a CFA3 went through my mind too. I just don’t want to wait for so long. I need to just bite the bullet and then use my 3ES Elite 300bs as a preamp. @paradoxper and you can’t speak highly enough about the CFA3. I’m gonna be honest, I’m skeptical how much better it would be than my WA33 Elite, but I still am very curious.


----------



## DJJEZ

jlbrach said:


> I have found for whatever reason there are days I listen to my HP's and for whatever reason I am less receptive to them..other days they sound glorious...time,mood..how I feel etc seem to figure in or it could just be some issue with the TC


This happens to me alot. On those days I just put them down and go do something else.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> Yeah, that’s happened to me in the past too. It could have just been a bad headphone day or I was in a strange mood. I’ll experiment tomorrow again. I just wanted booming negative hip-hop blasting my troubles away today
> 
> Though part of me wonders if I just need more power, and I went down the speaker route spiral then the wormhole of figuring out how to accommodate speakers and a sub in my place (which I can’t…).
> 
> ...


I've put the CFA3 up against a lot of solid state and it's exceptional.

However, you will find the real magic pairing a tube pre with CFA3, this has also now bested many other 300B headamps.

There is something special about 300B drive with planars that shifts the balance more than any other types that I've heard.


----------



## kawhia

Yes100% agree. There are good and bad hp days. Usually the good ones are when I am in a balanced mood, spent time outside and did some work out. Also, I cannot be tired. And there are days when it is better to do something else.


----------



## Trance_Gott (Dec 19, 2022)

Deleted


----------



## PhazeCrive (Dec 19, 2022)

Ciggavelli said:


> So, I have a strange question.  Is it possible that the bass in the TCs can decrease over time because of a bad driver or is my hearing just sh!tty today?  I tried the TCs on two different amps with the same bass quantity present, so I know it's not my WA33 or tubes.  I don't have any other headphones with nearly as much bass as the TCs, so I can't check it that way.  I hope I'm not going sub-bass deaf.
> 
> I guess I could send them in after letting my brother hear them when he's visiting for Christmas.  I just want booming bass from some rap albums, and the TCs aren't doing it today.


For me, it's the temperature. If I put them on normally, they start sloping down at 60hz and will not reach 20s, no matter what. After a while when they have warmed up on my head, it starts going lower and lower to 20hz. I can even pull them wider and still have no roll off. In select tracks, the thunder I know the TC can bring is COMPLETELY ROLLED OFF and silent, but just 10 minutes later that same track will be sounding as if a bomb went off. Abyss says the temperature affects the tensioning of the drivers, much like how sound is different at night because of the cooler air temp. Basically make sure they are warm and you have a perfect light contour of the earpads with no gap--but a light contour around your head. There's only really 1 or two pad/angle positions for this. The gentle seal is your gap. You want like 95% of your head sealed but veryyyy lightly. A blatant gap just makes it resonant sounding in the 50hz range (which is pretty cool for some tracks but it rolls off the low bass you wanna hear on other tracks.)

I put on some tracks that are known to bring on the thunder and when I put the TC on...nothing! But like 10 minutes later the thunder will come. After a workout  when my body temp is higher or a shower, the TC becomes furious with bass. It's all about the temperature, and it's why I have a radiator heater for it. But yes metal particulant or old drivers could result in low bass output.


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> Yeah, that’s happened to me in the past too. It could have just been a bad headphone day or I was in a strange mood. I’ll experiment tomorrow again. I just wanted booming negative hip-hop blasting my troubles away today
> 
> Though part of me wonders if I just need more power, and I went down the speaker route spiral then the wormhole of figuring out how to accommodate speakers and a sub in my place (which I can’t…).
> 
> ...


the CFA3 is wonderful with the TC although my formula s/powerman is no slouch either...the downside is the long wait...the whole shipping thing and then the risk of a problem and how to fix it but otherwise the CFA3 is glorious


----------



## normie610

jlbrach said:


> the downside is the long wait...the whole shipping thing and then the risk of a problem and how to fix it but otherwise the CFA3 is glorious



I think 4-5 weeks of lead time for a CFA3 build is not that long (unless there’s a special request or a difficulty in sourcing key components). And yes, 1266 TC sounds absolutely incredible with CFA3.

On another note, recently I’m starting to feel a bit of neck pain after a prolonged listening session with 1266 TC, even if it feels rather light on my head since the way I wear it is like it’s “hovering” on top of my head. Perhaps in the future there’ll be a lighter version. But if the neck pain continues, I might be forced to sell it 😢


----------



## Ciggavelli (Dec 19, 2022)

So, I had a "good" headphone day this morning with the TCs before work.  Maybe just going to sleep and changing my mood or something helped, or perhaps it was just an off day yesterday with my setup.  I finally got the booming bass in my negative rap music, which started my day off lovely.  Something about negative beats and negative lyrics fits my mood at times (yes, work is stressing me out...lol)


----------



## jlbrach

normie610 said:


> I think 4-5 weeks of lead time for a CFA3 build is not that long (unless there’s a special request or a difficulty in sourcing key components). And yes, 1266 TC sounds absolutely incredible with CFA3.
> 
> On another note, recently I’m starting to feel a bit of neck pain after a prolonged listening session with 1266 TC, even if it feels rather light on my head since the way I wear it is like it’s “hovering” on top of my head. Perhaps in the future there’ll be a lighter version. But if the neck pain continues, I might be forced to sell it 😢


I had a 1 year lead time lol...due to all sorts of complications and covid nonsense..4-5 weeks would have been no problem


----------



## Ciggavelli

4-5 weeks seems amazing.  I thought it was at least a 6 month wait (if not longer).  I need to look further into this


----------



## karangovil

Can confirm 4-5 weeks lead time on a recent CFA-3 but there were no chassis mods and Dukei had most everything in stock.


----------



## jlbrach

I paid for mine,waited months and was told the parts werent available and that my version couldnt be built...then Dukei contacted me and said he could get it built and we started again...with shipping issues etc 1 yr from start to finish but still worth the wait in the end


----------



## dude120 (Dec 19, 2022)

Got awful lucky, I just watched the Classifieds like a hawk for a cfa3 and found one after about 3-4 months


----------



## karlheinz147

Ciggavelli said:


> So, I had a "good" headphone day this morning with the TCs before work.  Maybe just going to sleep and changing my mood or something helped, or perhaps it was just an off day yesterday with my setup.  I finally got the booming bass in my negative rap music, which started my day off lovely.  Something about negative beats and negative lyrics fits my mood at times (yes, work is stressing me out...lol)


Negative rap music? Could you give some examples?


----------



## Ciggavelli (Dec 19, 2022)

karlheinz147 said:


> Negative rap music? Could you give some examples?


Just the most negative sh!t spewing over a beat.  Death, murder, drugs, sex, all over amazing beats.  I was listeining to Fredo Santana's "Scary Site" and Chief Keef's "Back from the dead" this morning.  I used to live in Chicago, so I like some Chicago drill.  Then you have the whole east coast drill and then Atlanta has amazing production.  Like the new Metro Booming has some murder raps from 21 Savage over great production.  It's called "Heroes and Villains"





















The first two are underground sounding, so the production values aren't great.  The Metro Boomin has good production values with mixing and mastering.

If you want more pop type negative rap there's Future, Young Thug and 21 Savage.  I've been real into the two screwed purple tapes by Key Glock.  More murder, Memphis, trap













You might have to buy the 2 above, but they are worth it.  A lot of chopped and screwed stuff isn't on streaming services.  Screwed music is a Houston specialty.  It makes the negativity even more negative

Oh yeah, I can't forget the classic negative rap album by Brotha Lynch.  Warning it is very violent and negative (like very)


----------



## karlheinz147

Ciggavelli said:


> Just the most negative sh!t spewing over a beat.  Death, murder, drugs, sex, all over amazing beats.  I was listeining to Fredo Santana's "Scary Site" and Chief Keef's "Back from the dead" this morning.  I used to live in Chicago, so I like some Chicago drill.  Then you have the whole east coast drill and then Atlanta has amazing production.  Like the new Metro Booming has some murder raps from 21 Savage over great production.  It's called "Heroes and Villains"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice, I'll try to find them and give them a listen. I only know 21 Savage and Metro Boomin from those ones. Yeah, I remember some chopped and screwed songs from SPM back in the day as well. Haven't seen much of those lately though.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Dec 19, 2022)

karlheinz147 said:


> Nice, I'll try to find them and give them a listen. I only know 21 Savage and Metro Boomin from those ones. Yeah, I remember some chopped and screwed songs from SPM back in the day as well. Haven't seen much of those lately though.


Yeah chopped and screwed is kinda mostly local now.  I like to listen to the music that comes from the area where I live, so I actively seek out the chopped and screwed sh!t.  OG Ron C, Slim K, and DJ Candlestick (all of them are in the Chopstars group) are the best at chopping beats up.  Some of their screwed albums are on streaming, but most of them you have to download or buy.  I have a ton.  They don't have high quality bit rates, but with this type of music it doesn't really matter.  LIke 128kbps is terrible for most genres, but for screwed stuff it is acceptable.  It's crazy to think we're listening to 128kbps mp3s off a $6000 pair of headphones, but it works real well.

Also, if you are into negative things like me, you would probably like metal.  There is so much negative metal.  You have evil black metal, suicidal/depressive black metal, funeral doom, normal doom, and then if you want some fun in you negativity there's death metal (though there are a few "evil" death metal bands).  This is probably the most negative thing I've listened to recently.  I ripped the sound off of the DVD, but you can watch it on YouTube.  If you are religious, don't watch it (just a warning, it's very blasphemous.  It's so blasphemous that I can't post the link here). 







Also, I just have to say that this type of music makes me seem like an evil person, but I'm not.  I'm not violent or evil at all.  I'm nice in real life   I just like negative things because I'm a negative person.  I've come to accept it  🤷‍♂️

I do listen to less negative music too, like the new Weyes Blood (it's dreamy music)


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> Just the most negative sh!t spewing over a beat.  Death, murder, drugs, sex, all over amazing beats.  I was listeining to Fredo Santana's "Scary Site" and Chief Keef's "Back from the dead" this morning.  I used to live in Chicago, so I like some Chicago drill.  Then you have the whole east coast drill and then Atlanta has amazing production.  Like the new Metro Booming has some murder raps from 21 Savage over great production.  It's called "Heroes and Villains"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


man that wouldnt be my cup of tea lol


----------



## Ciggavelli

jlbrach said:


> man that wouldnt be my cup of tea lol


Lol...yeah, you have to have a certain mental state to appreciate it.

Also, to keep this TC related.  The TCs are the most negative headphones around (just look at them.  All black and negative).  And to me that is a big positive and why they are the best headphones in the world (oh yeah and the sound quality of course)


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> Lol...yeah, you have to have a certain mental state to appreciate it.
> 
> Also, to keep this TC related.  The TCs are the most negative headphones around (just look at them.  All black and negative).  And to me that is a big positive and why they are the best headphones in the world


must be a great headphone because you love it listening to end of the world negative rap and I am loving it with jazz and blues and rock


----------



## karangovil

Ciggavelli said:


> The TCs are the most negative headphones around (just look at them. All black and negative).


“_And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you_.” - they’re aptly named so too.


----------



## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> man that wouldnt be my cup of tea lol


I can only imagine the absolute filth Cig is trying to expose you to.


----------



## jlbrach

yes he is a bad influence lol


----------



## sahmen (Dec 20, 2022)

karangovil said:


> *“And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” - they’re aptly named so too.*


*Damn! and now we're getting all Nietzschean and schiit!*





*Never in my wildest dreams would i have thought the TC will ever take me down this rabbit hole on head-fi of all places, yet here we are and I'm loving every minute of it. Yeah, bring on dat abyss!*..


----------



## PhazeCrive (Dec 20, 2022)

Ciggavelli said:


> Lol...yeah, you have to have a certain mental state to appreciate it.


Normally I wouldn't dare approach such genres, but I cannot deny that hip hop and rap are best played on the TC. Songs I literally cannot stand sound bad ass on the TC, but then the message just completely kills it for me...hehehhe


----------



## sahmen (Dec 20, 2022)

PhazeCrive said:


> 1Normally I wouldn't dare approach such genres, but I cannot deny that hip hop and rap are best played on the TC. Songs I literally cannot stand sound bad ass on the TC, but then the message just completely kills it for me...hehehhe


Would it hurt your ears less if you were to take the badass Hip hop lyrics as mere metaphors of social discontent rather than hard core take-no-prisoners literal language?  Never mind. Juuust kidding!!!


----------



## Ciggavelli (Dec 20, 2022)

sahmen said:


> Would it hurt your ears less if you were to take the badass Hip hop lyrics as mere metaphors of social discontent rather than hard core take-no-prisoners literal language?  Never mind. Juuust kidding!!!


Some of it is real life sh!t. A lot of rappers die and go to jail (like a surprising amount).

I’m the lyrics are a metaphor for me. It’s just the negative energy representing the negative aspects of life. Life can be positive and negative, so it makes sense there is positive and negative music.  I like the “negative” energy and aggressive sounding beats. It can be used to pump you up and it can be used the wallow in your sorrow. It can be therapeutic. Like I go to bed to funeral doom every night. Real slow depressing Esoteric and Mournful Congregation albums on a playlist for like 4 hours to fall asleep to. The energy is soothing and helps you sleep (or at least for me it does).


----------



## kawhia

Some gansta rap from Germany, Frankfurt area. Sounds fantastic on TC. 

https://open.qobuz.com/track/47395806

Haftbefehl - Chabos wissen wer der Babo ist


----------



## Ciggavelli

PhazeCrive said:


> Normally I wouldn't dare approach such genres, but I cannot deny that hip hop and rap are best played on the TC. Songs I literally cannot stand sound bad ass on the TC, but then the message just completely kills it for me...hehehhe


I own and have owned a ton of different TOTL headphones.  I've come to the conclusion that the only acceptable headphones for rap are the TCs.  Nothing else compares.  It's like the TCs are made for rap.


----------



## PhazeCrive

I know lol. I cut on some rap just on YT and I was like "yeah...no other headphone is reaching this level"


----------



## jlbrach

and yet I love the TC for


Ciggavelli said:


> I own and have owned a ton of different TOTL headphones.  I've come to the conclusion that the only acceptable headphones for rap are the TCs.  Nothing else compares.  It's like the TCs are made for rap.


 jazz so it must be a truly great HP


----------



## drew911d

Just catching up on this thread after months being away.  Still loving my Abyss Phi since November 2017.  No problems.  But, I do live in Arizona, so maybe the temperature thing is real.


----------



## sahmen

With all due respect, I do not think that those who are fantasizing about some synergy between the TC and raw heat (even if they do so in jest) are taking into account one factor which could be a real party p**per for any musical enjoyment under such circumstances, namely sweat, which often makes me think of this poor guy :  







If there is any music coming from those cans, I doubt whether he can even hear it...


----------



## leftside

kawhia said:


> Some gansta rap from Germany, Frankfurt area. Sounds fantastic on TC.
> 
> https://open.qobuz.com/track/47395806
> 
> Haftbefehl - Chabos wissen wer der Babo ist


Heading there in May 🙂 Not sure any gangsta rap will be on the  menu. Maybe some electronic music tho…


----------



## karlheinz147

kawhia said:


> Some gansta rap from Germany, Frankfurt area. Sounds fantastic on TC.
> 
> https://open.qobuz.com/track/47395806
> 
> Haftbefehl - Chabos wissen wer der Babo ist


It reminds me of Bushido, is he still around? I lived in Germany when I was younger and remember all the German teens in my neighborhood listening to Bushido and trying to look gangsta wearing baggy clothes 😄


----------



## kawhia

leftside said:


> Heading there in May 🙂 Not sure any gangsta rap will be on the  menu. Maybe some electronic music tho…


I see you are from Raincover Very nice indeed. I lived there for one year and loved it. Beautiful. Don’t be appalled by Frankfurt, it’s not as beautiful. But actually quite nice on a second or third moment. Enjoy.


----------



## kawhia

karlheinz147 said:


> It reminds me of Bushido, is he still around? I lived in Germany when I was younger and remember all the German teens in my neighborhood listening to Bushido and trying to look gangsta wearing baggy clothes 😄


Haha. I don’t know, never really listened to him. I think he emigrated to Dubai. He was also in a witness protection program because he testified in court against some clan members. Well that is the life of a gansta rapper I guess 😂


----------



## karlheinz147

kawhia said:


> Haha. I don’t know, never really listened to him. I think he emigrated to Dubai. He was also in a witness protection program because he testified in court against some clan members. Well that is the life of a gansta rapper I guess 😂



Damn 😅



@Ciggavelli, this might be your style.


----------



## leftside

kawhia said:


> I see you are from Raincover Very nice indeed. I lived there for one year and loved it. Beautiful. Don’t be appalled by Frankfurt, it’s not as beautiful. But actually quite nice on a second or third moment. Enjoy.


As a stop over on my way to the Pyrenees for some mountain biking. Figured I might as well stay there a few days as Germany is one of my favourite countries to visit.


----------



## kawhia

leftside said:


> As a stop over on my way to the Pyrenees for some mountain biking. Figured I might as well stay there a few days as Germany is one of my favourite countries to visit.


I wish you a great trip. If you have time to go to Heidelberg, which is not far from Frankfurt, you may want to go to a new headphone shop. I have never been to the new store, only the old one. It is good fun. 
https://headphone.shop/shop/


----------



## leftside

@kawhia I don't suppose you know the answer to this question?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...t63-kt61-6v6-etc.959519/page-60#post-17306902


----------



## kawhia

leftside said:


> @kawhia I don't suppose you know the answer to this question?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...t63-kt61-6v6-etc.959519/page-60#post-17306902


No sorry, it is either a name, a technical term or a joke. Hess is a last name. Pot is not a German word.


----------



## leftside

kawhia said:


> No sorry, it is either a name, a technical term or a joke. Hess is a last name. Pot is not a German word.


Turns out it is "Hess Pol" on the tube.


----------



## ThanatosVI

leftside said:


> @kawhia I don't suppose you know the answer to this question?
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...t63-kt61-6v6-etc.959519/page-60#post-17306902


It's "Hess Pol" which is short for "Hessische Polizei" = "Police Department of the Federal State Hessen"
These tubes have been manufactured for this Police Department,  however I don't know why


----------



## paradoxper

Should we be placing orders for Abyss ported pads?

The concept seems interesting and the provided anecdotes make it seem a positive step forward.


----------



## ThanatosVI

paradoxper said:


> Should we be placing orders for Abyss ported pads?
> 
> The concept seems interesting and the provided anecdotes make it seem a positive step forward.



Do they fit for the 1266TC or only Diana?


----------



## paradoxper (Dec 23, 2022)

ThanatosVI said:


> Do they fit for the 1266TC or only Diana?


They are marketed for Diana.


----------



## vonBaron

paradoxper said:


> Should we be placing orders for Abyss ported pads?
> 
> The concept seems interesting and the provided anecdotes make it seem a positive step forward.



Finally, my biggest complaint about DTC was bass quantity compared to 1266.


----------



## Smallpie

paradoxper said:


> Should we be placing orders for Abyss ported pads?
> 
> The concept seems interesting and the provided anecdotes make it seem a positive step forward.



Damn, I was thinking about a similar idea for pads last month. Sounds interesting!


----------



## Slim1970

vonBaron said:


> Finally, my biggest complaint about DTC was bass quantity compared to 1266.


These pads should bring them one step closer


----------



## ahossam

I think they also mention in the video that the new ported pads will be compatible with their next closed back headphone.


----------



## Dim666

Dim666 said:


> Concerning the O Ring, I take this one : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005001460488894.html
> => In my opinion the 33mm looks good
> 
> Concerning the crimp connector :
> ...



I did the small repair and it works perfectly. I put in a 33mm o-ring, I think I will decrease the diameter of the o-ring ( 30mm or 28mm on each side) to increase the tension because the headband inexorably touches the screw and creates discomfort.

What did you do to improve the comfort of the headband ?


----------



## karlheinz147

Dim666 said:


> I did the small repair and it works perfectly. I put in a 33mm o-ring, I think I will decrease the diameter of the o-ring ( 30mm or 28mm on each side) to increase the tension because the headband inexorably touches the screw and creates discomfort.
> 
> What did you do to improve the comfort of the headband ?


----------



## F208Frank

We all have repair woes... what is a good back up amp for the Abyss TC1266 that is pretty cheap and would be only used when amp is in repair? Suggestions?

For my case waiting on the aic10 and my formula stack was traded in recent (shipped to dealer) so I am now amp less.


----------



## sahmen

F208Frank said:


> We all have repair woes... what is a good back up amp for the Abyss TC1266 that is pretty cheap and would be only used when amp is in repair? Suggestions?
> 
> For my case waiting on the aic10 and my formula stack was traded in recent (shipped to dealer) so I am now amp less.


It depends on how to interpret "pretty cheap" in terms of your budget's bandwidth. I'll probably begin with Singxer SA-1, and work my way up or down depending on how satisfactory you consider the results to be for your ears and budget.


----------



## kawhia

F208Frank said:


> We all have repair woes... what is a good back up amp for the Abyss TC1266 that is pretty cheap and would be only used when amp is in repair? Suggestions?
> 
> For my case waiting on the aic10 and my formula stack was traded in recent (shipped to dealer) so I am now amp less.


Get a second Riviera. No compromise 😂


----------



## mitchb

What is your budget? A second hand Auralic Taurus Mk2 can be had for under $1000 and it is a decent amp.


----------



## DMITRIY R

sahmen said:


> It depends on how to interpret "pretty cheap" in terms of your budget's bandwidth. I'll probably begin with Singxer SA-1, and work my way up or down depending on how satisfactory you consider the results to be for your ears and budget.


This is bad advice. The Abyss works very poorly with SA-1.
Checked personally.

Pay attention to the Ferrum Orr or Soloist GT. In the secondary market, they are available at a good price.


----------



## sloomingbla

mitchb said:


> What is your budget? A second hand Auralic Taurus Mk2 can be had for under $1000 and it is a decent amp.


I was actually gonna recommend this myself. Got mine for 800$ and works great, only issue for me is it seems to pick up interference from my pc like nobodies business


----------



## sahmen (Dec 27, 2022)

DMITRIY R said:


> This is bad advice. The Abyss works very poorly with SA-1.
> Checked personally.
> 
> Pay attention to the Ferrum Orr or Soloist GT. In the secondary market, they are available at a good price.


Okay, where is the "bad advice"? Is it in my mentioning of the Singxer SA-1 itself or the idea of working one's way upward or downward from it, or better yet, the idea that the choice would depend on budget?

I did not know specifically about that lack of synergy you mention between the Abyss and the SA-1, as I haven't personally experimented with that combo before.  I was only tentatively attempting to suggest the SA-1 as a starting point,  because it is a version of "pretty cheap" that has worked brilliantly for me in a different context and use case. It was not meant as  a definitive choice.

Maybe I should have mentioned a used Pathos InPol Ear, for example, an amp which drives the TC quite well to my confirmed knowledge, but I am not sure how well that option would align with "pretty cheap" for the OP. At any rate, I take it no harm has been done yet with my "bad advice," as we have all been playing with fluid hypothetical suggestions so far, No?


----------



## OCC7N

Is this the thread for all Abyss headphones?


----------



## normie610

OCC7N said:


> Is this the thread for all Abyss headphones?


Please look at the thread title


----------



## OCC7N

ok thanks


----------



## paradoxper

I don't routinely see a lot of you posting in the music threads, so what were your AOTY or even surprise discoveries whether it spans time or relative genres outside your normal selection?

My AOTY prog meets doom:


----------



## Ciggavelli (Dec 27, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> I don't routinely see a lot of you posting in the music threads, so what were your AOTY or even surprise discoveries whether it spans time or relative genres outside your normal selection?
> 
> My AOTY prog meets doom:


Outside my normal genres would be that new Weyes Blood.






Metal album of the year is that Chat Pile






Rap album of the year, is that Freddie Gibb's


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> Outside my normal genres would be that new Weyes Blood.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I recall you were taken with Weyes Blood of which I'm unfamiliar, so I'll be sure to check her out.

Chat Pile was a great release this year and on my AOTY list.


----------



## Hiker816

Not at all a new release this year, but outside my normal genres is easy.  While my go-to is instrumental prog rock and prog metal, I started getting really into high-tempo acoustic guitar, primarily because, when well produced, it sounds so good on something like the 1266 TC.  I just learned of Rodrigo y Gabriela, for example:


----------



## Ciggavelli

paradoxper said:


> I recall you were taken with Weyes Blood of which I'm unfamiliar, so I'll be sure to check her out.
> 
> Chat Pile was a great release this year and on my AOTY list.


Her last album before this latest one is even better.  I'd start there first (though the new one is still amazing)


----------



## Ciggavelli

Hiker816 said:


> Not at all a new release this year, but outside my normal genres is easy.  While my go-to is instrumental prog rock and prog metal, I started getting really into high-tempo acoustic guitar, primarily because, when well produced, it sounds so good on something like the 1266 TC.  I just learned of Rodrigo y Gabriela, for example:



Oh, they are great.  I'm a fan as well


----------



## karangovil

Not sure if I'd call if AOTY but I was pretty impressed with this album recently and has been on a regular rotation on the TCs


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> Her last album before this latest one is even better.  I'd start there first (though the new one is still amazing)


Not quite as captive as Lana Del Ray but it was good to me especially for a change.


Hiker816 said:


> Not at all a new release this year, but outside my normal genres is easy.  While my go-to is instrumental prog rock and prog metal, I started getting really into high-tempo acoustic guitar, primarily because, when well produced, it sounds so good on something like the 1266 TC.  I just learned of Rodrigo y Gabriela, for example:



This is fantastic. Sort of in the middle from what I'm routinely cycling.


karangovil said:


> Not sure if I'd call if AOTY but I was pretty impressed with this album recently and has been on a regular rotation on the TCs



More my speed. Definitely not AOTY but a solid release.


----------



## karangovil (Dec 28, 2022)

Another djenty memorable one for this year


----------



## Ciggavelli (Dec 29, 2022)

I found a great album off of Stereogum's top 10 metal albums of the year (their list isn't very good though):






It's not on streaming services unfortunately, so you have to buy it through Bandcamp.  It's worth it (Chilean death metal).


----------



## deuter

Anyone know how to fix the headband?
I bought the relevant O Rings and crimp. Can someone post step by step instructions including the tools we need?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/page-923


----------



## number1sixerfan

Ciggavelli said:


> Outside my normal genres would be that new Weyes Blood.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good selections across the board! And spot on, the Freddie Gibbs album is definitely rap album of the year.


----------



## cringeana

karangovil said:


> Not sure if I'd call if AOTY but I was pretty impressed with this album recently and has been on a regular rotation on the TCs



usually not the biggest fan of this type of metal, but as i'm listening to this, it sounds great, thanks for posting this


----------



## sloomingbla

ID10 - Rezz
Great song for testing out the bass of the 1266. Pretty insane bass texture


----------



## vonBaron

Must listen on 1266, im melting...


----------



## 13candles

Came across this just awhile ago and had to share. Never really took Z Reviews seriously but if this video is legit and what im hearing is actually what the Abyss 1266 is delivering; then DAMN.....




Anyways; Happy New Year's guys ! Here's wishing the whole lot of you a brilliant 2023 ahead filled with good health, luck, love and ofcourse great gear and cans! Cheers!!!


----------



## pofofo

I just got a Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 and hooked my 1266 PHI TC to it with an XLR-speaker tap adaptor (no resistors) and so far the results is really good. I do need to get a better dac (Modi 3), but this combo sounds fenomenal to my ears, it easily beats the Rag2. Have anybody else tried the 2170?


----------



## Exekuhtor (Jan 2, 2023)

13candles said:


> Came across this just awhile ago and had to share. Never really took Z Reviews seriously but if this video is legit and what im hearing is actually what the Abyss 1266 is delivering; then DAMN.....


It's the king of bass. Period. It does not sound realistic (go for the Sus in that case). It has the most punch and slam. Ever. It's pure fun. I can't speak for its resolution since i "only" have the Phi version (which is already highly resolving, i've read that the TC bumps that up even a bit more).
But yes, the part where he says "the music doesn't feel hollow" is refering to the bass and dynamics and impact and slam. If you have not heard a 1266, nothing in terms of headphones comes even close to it in that regard. Imagine a highend subwoofer directly next to your ears.
I watched the video like 5 times haha.

By the way, i thought about upgrading / trading my Phi for the TC, still can't decide if i should. Price would probably be around a thousand bucks? Ideally i find someone that does that deal and trade in his TC for my Phi + cash...
I already have the TC pads and headband so it would probably only a small upgrade...


----------



## deuter

Exekuhtor said:


> It's the king of bass. Period. It does not sound realistic (go for the Sus in that case). It has the most punch and slam. Ever. It's pure fun. I can't speak for its resolution since i "only" have the Phi version (which is already highly resolving, i've read that the TC bumps that up even a bit more).
> But yes, the part where he says "the music doesn't feel hollow" is refering to the bass and dynamics and impact and slam. If you have not heard a 1266, nothing in terms of headphones comes even close to it in that regard. Imagine a highend subwoofer directly next to your ears.
> I watched the video like 5 times haha.
> 
> ...


See if you can get hold of the OG version, has the most rumbling bass by far as I understand.


----------



## paradoxper

Exekuhtor said:


> It's the king of bass. Period. It does not sound realistic (go for the Sus in that case). It has the most punch and slam. Ever. It's pure fun. I can't speak for its resolution since i "only" have the Phi version (which is already highly resolving, i've read that the TC bumps that up even a bit more).
> But yes, the part where he says "the music doesn't feel hollow" is refering to the bass and dynamics and impact and slam. If you have not heard a 1266, nothing in terms of headphones comes even close to it in that regard. Imagine a highend subwoofer directly next to your ears.
> I watched the video like 5 times haha.
> 
> ...


Keep it. Complement it with either a MySphere 3.2 or SR1a system.


----------



## paradoxper (Jan 2, 2023)

Setting goals: more exploration outside listening norms, less productivity for the sake.
Started with the discovery of CocoRosie -- trip hop not my cup has become a favorite thing.
Lamp ERything


----------



## normie610

paradoxper said:


> Setting goals: more exploration outside listening norms, less productivity for the sake.
> Started with the discovery of CocoRosie -- trip hop not my cup has become a favorite thing.
> Lamp ERything


Those two smaller tubes on the PSU are regulators right?


----------



## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Those two smaller tubes on the PSU are regulators right?


Those are the 6L6 (equivalent 6N3C) RCA Black Plate.


----------



## normie610

This sounds ridiculously good!!! (please ignore the TI box for Raal 😅)


----------



## Roasty

normie610 said:


> This sounds ridiculously good!!! (please ignore the TI box for Raal 😅)



damn that looks sexy! so Manley as a pre, into the CFA3?


----------



## normie610

Roasty said:


> damn that looks sexy! so Manley as a pre, into the CFA3?


Correct!


----------



## F208Frank

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/formula-s-powerman-combo-1st-owner-few-months-old-mint.39105/

^formula s and powerman xlr combo for sale!


----------



## deuter

F208Frank said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/formula-s-powerman-combo-1st-owner-few-months-old-mint.39105/
> 
> ^formula s and powerman xlr combo for sale!


One of the best headphone amp for AB1266 if not the best.


----------



## simorag

Some good material for enjoying the Abyss sublime bass, cavernous staging and resolution. 

Turkish jazz mixed with ethnical themes and instruments (oud). I see big smiles incoming ... 






Poetry after a tragedy (Hurricane Sandy), what an immersive emotional experience.






Big, sound, a miracle recording from the 60's beautifully remastered recently. Stokovsky is temperamental and somewhat arbitrary as usual, but never boring for sure ...


----------



## deuter

Does anyone have any spare AB1266 headband, Iam trying to diy fix mine for over 2 months now.
Don’t even remember what the AB1266 sounds like anymore.
I don’t care if your spare one is discoloured or bruised just need something that will work.
I will pay whatever is fair including shipping. Please PM me.
Happy New Year !


----------



## paradoxper

deuter said:


> Does anyone have any spare AB1266 headband, Iam trying to diy fix mine for over 2 months now.
> Don’t even remember what the AB1266 sounds like anymore.
> I don’t care if your spare one is discoloured or bruised just need something that will work.
> I will pay whatever is fair including shipping. Please PM me.
> Happy New Year !


I don't recall, does the AB1266 use any 1266 headband or is it limited only to the original model?


----------



## Exekuhtor

deuter said:


> Does anyone have any spare AB1266 headband, Iam trying to diy fix mine for over 2 months now.
> Don’t even remember what the AB1266 sounds like anymore.
> I don’t care if your spare one is discoloured or bruised just need something that will work.
> I will pay whatever is fair including shipping. Please PM me.
> Happy New Year !


I pm'ed you, i'm in EU (germany).


paradoxper said:


> I don't recall, does the AB1266 use any 1266 headband or is it limited only to the original model?


Every 1266 is the same physically wise (as far as i know), i can offer him the first (flat, bad) one. If he's in europe.


----------



## ufospls2

paradoxper said:


> I don't recall, does the AB1266 use any 1266 headband or is it limited only to the original model?


Not limited, could use the new design headband on an original 1266.


----------



## deuter

Appreciate your help guys hopefully I can arrange one through @Exekuhtor


----------



## vonBaron

I have shivers when i listen this on 1266.


----------



## Ragnar-BY (Jan 5, 2023)

simorag said:


> Turkish jazz mixed with ethnical themes and instruments (oud). I see big smiles incoming ...



What a great album! Musical finds like this every time make me wonder how many cool things I missed, not being familiar with the Eastern musical heritage.


----------



## drew911d

@deuter I know you're name from somewhere.   Were you involved in either Pono Player or Noble Audio IEM's?  I only remember so much, maybe it was deuter dahmen, or similar?


----------



## deuter

@drew911d  Neither of them although I know of the 2 products. Whatever happens of the Pono Player, was supposed to me the next revolution by Ayre Electronics.
I have been on headfi for a while Iam sure you probably know me from somewhere.
May be do a quick goo search on my handle 😜


----------



## Dim666

​
And on this track, what do you say ?


----------



## ufospls2

Dim666 said:


> ​
> And on this track, what do you say ?



I think they are great! Here is another cool track, great with the 1266


----------



## kawhia

drew911d said:


> @deuter I know you're name from somewhere.   Were you involved in either Pono Player or Noble Audio IEM's?  I only remember so much, maybe it was deuter dahmen, or similar?


Deuter is a German Company for sleeping bags. Was this helpful?


----------



## drew911d

kawhia said:


> Deuter is a German Company for sleeping bags. Was this helpful?


Could be that!  I do hiking and spike camping sometimes, so it may have come up in my search for gear.


----------



## Smallpie (Sunday at 12:58 PM)

ufospls2 said:


> I think they are great! Here is another cool track, great with the 1266



Great band. Saw them live last year and it was the best concert I’ve ever been to and I’ve been to a lot. A very cinematic show kinda like being told a visual folk tale.

Also, they’re recordings are very well done. Great through the 1266’s!


----------



## normie610

Having a Sunday afternoon session with 1266 TC, using Mitch’s Neutral filter, listening to this album. The mids on TC are just outstanding.


----------



## carboncopy

After much hesitation I bought the TC altough I never liked it in shows where I could sample them. But somehow I thought there must be something with it if so many love it. Maybe I get it too.

The first impressions are, that these really have an incredible bass response. Not just the quantity, but the quality too. I am in the hi-fi game like for 20 years and I switched the headphones a couple of years back. There are tracks I thought I know inside-out having heard them on several very good systems I had but alas, there is still new under the sun.

I just listened to "I am not in love", the version from Tori Amos (Album: Strange Little Girls). I know this track has some real weight, but I swear this headphones showed deeper tones (with texture and detail) I ever heard from any system. Well done I am impressed.


----------



## jlbrach

normie610 said:


> Having a Sunday afternoon session with 1266 TC, using Mitch’s Neutral filter, listening to this album. The mids on TC are just outstanding.


agreed,outstanding


----------



## deuter

deuter said:


> Does anyone have any spare AB1266 headband, Iam trying to diy fix mine for over 2 months now.
> Don’t even remember what the AB1266 sounds like anymore.
> I don’t care if your spare one is discoloured or bruised just need something that will work.
> I will pay whatever is fair including shipping. Please PM me.
> Happy New Year !


All,
Iam setting another reminder as someone tried to help me but that didn’t work logistically.

Please PM me if you have one that you don’t need. Happy to pay for it and any shipping involved.


----------



## Dim666 (Sunday at 5:53 PM)

Hello,

People tried the pilot pad on the abyss ?

https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/products/pilot-pad


----------



## MatW

Dim666 said:


> Hello,
> 
> People tried the pilot pad on the abyss ?
> 
> https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/products/pilot-pad​


I love the pilot pad, I use it with my LCD4, but I don't need it with the TC. Do you have the old or the new headband?


----------



## Dim666

This one :


----------



## MatW

Ah yeah, the old headband definitely needs some kind of padding. The new headband is so much better.


----------



## F208Frank

Anyone have a good comparison of the TA P vs Abyss differences?

Recently picked up the TA T wireless and am quite impressed for what it is: a good wireless option.

Got me little curious about the TA P.


----------



## ufospls2

F208Frank said:


> Anyone have a good comparison of the TA P vs Abyss differences?
> 
> Recently picked up the TA T wireless and am quite impressed for what it is: a good wireless option.
> 
> Got me little curious about the TA P.



will just copy paste from my review

"Compared to the Abyss 1266TC, the SolP actually reminds me of the 1266’s bass more than any other model I have heard, though still not exactly the same. There is slightly more mid presence in the lower mids on the SolP, and the SolP is darker in the treble (no EQ) than the 1266. The 1266TC has a wider soundstage and overall a larger sonic picture, but again the detail levels between the two are quite similar, with the SolP only slightly trailing behind. Both feature impressive aluminium builds, but the SolP is _slightly_ more comfortable due to its lighter weight and more conventional shape. "


----------



## F208Frank

ufospls2 said:


> will just copy paste from my review
> 
> "Compared to the Abyss 1266TC, the SolP actually reminds me of the 1266’s bass more than any other model I have heard, though still not exactly the same. There is slightly more mid presence in the lower mids on the SolP, and the SolP is darker in the treble (no EQ) than the 1266. The 1266TC has a wider soundstage and overall a larger sonic picture, but again the detail levels between the two are quite similar, with the SolP only slightly trailing behind. Both feature impressive aluminium builds, but the SolP is _slightly_ more comfortable due to its lighter weight and more conventional shape. "


Appreciate it!


----------



## Ragnar-BY

F208Frank said:


> Anyone have a good comparison of the TA P vs Abyss differences?


I have both. Sol P is more refined and mature, 1266TC is more powerful and fun. To me the Abyss is clearly the better headphone of the two because of the macrodynamic and "out of the head" feeling. However, Sol P is not far behind and in some genres plays even better.

As for the bass, treble and everything else written by @ufospls2  I completely agree.


----------



## leftside

normie610 said:


> Having a Sunday afternoon session with 1266 TC, using Mitch’s Neutral filter, listening to this album. The mids on TC are just outstanding.


Same filters I use. Well worth getting.


----------



## F208Frank

Th


Ragnar-BY said:


> I have both. Sol P is more refined and mature, 1266TC is more powerful and fun. To me the Abyss is clearly the better headphone of the two because of the macrodynamic and "out of the head" feeling. However, Sol P is not far behind and in some genres plays even better.
> 
> As for the bass, treble and everything else written by @ufospls2  I completely agreethw


The perfect response. Thanks.

To the point and concise!


----------



## vonBaron

For it price there several better headphones than SolP for me.


----------



## deuter

Reminder to all: After any condition AB1266 Headband.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/abyss-1266-headband.36317/


----------



## Ragnar-BY

vonBaron said:


> For it price there several better headphones than SolP for me.


Everyone has different tastes, but personally I would say that after the Abyss, these are the most interesting headphones that I have. Susvara and LCD5 are also good, but Sol P is slightly better IMO, especially with classical music.


----------



## F208Frank (Monday at 10:30 PM)

Ive always loved the Abyss.

I always think to myself the very first time I saw them. It just looked so american and uncomfortable, but when listening to them. Whoa. Whoa on both the comfort level and the high levels of detail and that famous speaker in a headphone kind of feeling.


----------



## Yatharth

How can abyss headphone’s full potential be unleashed?


----------



## paradoxper

Yatharth said:


> How can abyss headphone’s full potential be unleashed?


IMO tube and power i.e. maximize their midrange recession whilst retaining their gripping character.

When you realize this, no headphone resolves much more (stats can with their own shortcomings) and presents that open speaker-like space and physicality.

With 300B they are really damn near perfect.


----------



## Yatharth

paradoxper said:


> IMO tube and power i.e. maximize their midrange recession whilst retaining their gripping character.
> 
> When you realize this, no headphone resolves much more (stats can with their own shortcomings) and presents that open speaker-like space and physicality.
> 
> With 300B they are really damn near perfect.


So,which amplifier and DAC will I have to use to unleash abyss’s full potential?


----------



## leftside

Yatharth said:


> So,which amplifier and DAC will I have to use to unleash abyss’s full potential?


That's highly debatable. Me, I go smaller companies for the DAC and custom for the amp.


----------



## jlbrach

paradoxper said:


> IMO tube and power i.e. maximize their midrange recession whilst retaining their gripping character.
> 
> When you realize this, no headphone resolves much more (stats can with their own shortcomings) and presents that open speaker-like space and physicality.
> 
> With 300B they are really damn near perfect.


with the convolution filters you accomplish a lot of what you speak of tubes accomplishing...I have been pleasantly surprised by the filters with the CFA3


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## paradoxper

Yatharth said:


> So,which amplifier and DAC will I have to use to unleash abyss’s full potential?


Your budget is your only limitation. I'd recommend you focus on the amplification first but there many options including DHT DAC pairings for various matching with system building.


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## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> with the convolution filters you accomplish a lot of what you speak of tubes accomplishing...I have been pleasantly surprised by the filters with the CFA3


I think the filters are a good tool for some refining but they don't match the whole of musicality like tubes can address.


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## normie610

jlbrach said:


> with the convolution filters you accomplish a lot of what you speak of tubes accomplishing...I have been pleasantly surprised by the filters with the CFA3





paradoxper said:


> I think the filters are a good tool for some refining but they don't match the whole of musicality like tubes can address.


Well I use both, filters & tubes and it’s just sublime


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## Darkliner

Yatharth said:


> How can abyss headphone’s full potential be unleashed?


Aries cerat kassandra for dac and wa33 elite jps edition for amp.


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## Ragnar-BY

Yatharth said:


> So,which amplifier and DAC will I have to use to unleash abyss’s full potential?


DACs are a complex topic. As for the amplifier, I think the very best options are WA 33 EE JPS or Riviera AIC-10.


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## Ragnar-BY

jlbrach said:


> with the convolution filters you accomplish a lot of what you speak of tubes accomplishing..


Tube electronics play differently. It's not something that can be done with a filter, an equalizer, or some other digital processing.

People often think that tubes are just a certain shift in tonal balance, but that's not the case. Even cold-sounding tube gear gives the sound some kind of naturalness, coherence and fluidity, which is very difficult to describe in words. Just give it a try.


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## paradoxper

normie610 said:


> Well I use both, filters & tubes and it’s just sublime


Take the tubes out, I guarantee the filter doesn't work to the sublime.


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## normie610

paradoxper said:


> Take the tubes out, I guarantee the filter doesn't work to the sublime.


That’s why I use both 😁


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## deuter

Ragnar-BY said:


> DACs are a complex topic. As for the amplifier, I think the very best options are WA 33 EE JPS or Riviera AIC-10.


Also to add to the list is the Formula S.


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## deuter

deuter said:


> Reminder to all: After any condition AB1266 Headband.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/abyss-1266-headband.36317/


Please PM me if you have one for that you don’t need.


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## F208Frank

deuter said:


> Also to add to the list is the Formula S.


Have formula S for sale in classifieds with powerman.


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## jlbrach

the formula s combo is indeed outstanding with the abyss tc


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